motherscratcher wrote:I turn on the radio and they are comparing Hoyer to Tom Brady, then I come here and we are trading a 1st rounder for Kirk Cousins (or someone slightly worse) and throwing a 4th rounder to sweeten the deal, just in case Washington was like "I'm not sure a 1st round draft pick is going to get it done for our backup QB there Spanky, what else ya got?"

And then over there you got JB making Nena references and e0y hating Star Trek for no apparent reason.

The only thing that hasn't happened is the only thing I was sure would happen...FUDU talking up Stratego.

All in the Brian Hoyer thread that SD made which, 2 years later, mirrors almost exactly the same thread he made about Colt McCoy. Before he turned on him a week and a half later.

This place, man.

Quite frankly it's not even fare to compare HOyer to WEeden this year. Weeden has had zero opportunities this year to play with the only skilled skill position player the Browns have in Josh Gordon (although I think Cameron has also made it to that point). I'm not convinced that isn't the only difference between Hoyer and Weeden this year. Hoyer got to play with Gordon and Weeden didn't.

Huge playin with Drahnk Dude.

But in isolation, the ball comes out from Hoyer and he makes a read and decision quickly. That's the single one big thing.

Having mobility and pocket awareness, and hitting a WR in a position to get YAC is also a difference, but the ball leaving the QB's hand on time in tempo is The One Big Thing.

motherscratcher wrote:I turn on the radio and they are comparing Hoyer to Tom Brady, then I come here and we are trading a 1st rounder for Kirk Cousins (or someone slightly worse) and throwing a 4th rounder to sweeten the deal, just in case Washington was like "I'm not sure a 1st round draft pick is going to get it done for our backup QB there Spanky, what else ya got?"

And then over there you got JB making Nena references and e0y hating Star Trek for no apparent reason.

The only thing that hasn't happened is the only thing I was sure would happen...FUDU talking up Stratego.

All in the Brian Hoyer thread that SD made which, 2 years later, mirrors almost exactly the same thread he made about Colt McCoy. Before he turned on him a week and a half later.

This place, man.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

motherscratcher wrote:I turn on the radio and they are comparing Hoyer to Tom Brady, then I come here and we are trading a 1st rounder for Kirk Cousins (or someone slightly worse) and throwing a 4th rounder to sweeten the deal, just in case Washington was like "I'm not sure a 1st round draft pick is going to get it done for our backup QB there Spanky, what else ya got?"

And then over there you got JB making Nena references and e0y hating Star Trek for no apparent reason.

The only thing that hasn't happened is the only thing I was sure would happen...FUDU talking up Stratego.

All in the Brian Hoyer thread that SD made which, 2 years later, mirrors almost exactly the same thread he made about Colt McCoy. Before he turned on him a week and a half later.

This place, man.

Quite frankly it's not even fare to compare HOyer to WEeden this year. Weeden has had zero opportunities this year to play with the only skilled skill position player the Browns have in Josh Gordon (although I think Cameron has also made it to that point). I'm not convinced that isn't the only difference between Hoyer and Weeden this year. Hoyer got to play with Gordon and Weeden didn't.

Actually, it's pretty fair.

What receiver is adept at reeling in the 120mph high swing pass?

What's any receiver in the league gonna do to help Weeden understand your are allowed to rush the QB in the NFL, and that guy...the one coming right in front of your face, that guy ain't make believe.

What receiver has 10 minutes to wait for th ball to come out.

Again, as with the other QB's people felt the Browns "runied" or "didn't get a fair shake" the proof will be in the fact Weeden will never have a real job in the league again, same as Couch, Frye and all the others. Unless I'm missing someone the Browns released who turned around and became a good QB.

And I'm with Mo, I ain't giving nearly what they'll want for Kirk Cousins. For the love of Scott Mitchell.

motherscratcher wrote:I turn on the radio and they are comparing Hoyer to Tom Brady, then I come here and we are trading a 1st rounder for Kirk Cousins (or someone slightly worse) and throwing a 4th rounder to sweeten the deal, just in case Washington was like "I'm not sure a 1st round draft pick is going to get it done for our backup QB there Spanky, what else ya got?"

And then over there you got JB making Nena references and e0y hating Star Trek for no apparent reason.

The only thing that hasn't happened is the only thing I was sure would happen...FUDU talking up Stratego.

All in the Brian Hoyer thread that SD made which, 2 years later, mirrors almost exactly the same thread he made about Colt McCoy. Before he turned on him a week and a half later.

This place, man.

Quite frankly it's not even fare to compare HOyer to WEeden this year. Weeden has had zero opportunities this year to play with the only skilled skill position player the Browns have in Josh Gordon (although I think Cameron has also made it to that point). I'm not convinced that isn't the only difference between Hoyer and Weeden this year. Hoyer got to play with Gordon and Weeden didn't.

Some validity to that.

But it doesn't matter. The results are what they are. And even if Weeden plays about the same as Hoyer in those 2 games, it still isn't that good and certainly not worth debating.

Ride Hoyer til he loses. Decide then which crap QB to put back out there, the results will likely be similar.

When was the last time we had a QB with the in-game IQ and pocket presence of Hoyer? Have we had any since the return?

I don't know, I haven't seen their IQ scores nor been in their heads to know if their failure was due to mental or physical issues.

When the play calls for you to quick throw a 5 yard pass, you're gonna look decisive whether you really are or not.

IDK from what I've seen of Weedon.

I used to have an office where I'd have the receptionist put out 2 bowls of candy; Smarties and Dum-Dums. I'd let the staff have fun watching which visitors took which and who "got it". I'm evil like that.

I'd move Quinn to the other list, there were too many deer in headlights moments to consider him a 'Smartie.'

The stat I caught that stands out to me is that Hoyer's leading the league in average time from snap to throw: 2.8 seconds. Now consider he's making his reads before the snap, after the snap, doing his progressions, -and- he's making the throws in crunch time.

I think Hoyer's talent between his ears puts him above borderline. Whether or not its enough to put him at or above Alex Smith, let alone Drew Brees, I'm not sure yet.

"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:I'd move Quinn to the other list, there were too many deer in headlights moments to consider him a 'Smartie.'

The stat I caught that stands out to me is that Hoyer's leading the league in average time from snap to throw: 2.8 seconds. Now consider he's making his reads before the snap, after the snap, doing his progressions, -and- he's making the throws in crunch time.

I think Hoyer's talent between his ears puts him above borderline. Whether or not its enough to put him at or above Alex Smith, let alone Drew Brees, I'm not sure yet.

BQ is obviously smart. He graduated from ND. It's not Hopkins but its up there.

Tony Rice says so.

But yeah, Hoyer's key is timing. The ball comes out. This was Weed's achilles heel for all the talk of pocket presence. Guy was like my wife in Nordstrom's shoe department.

Only ones debatable for me are Colt & BQ. I certainly wouldn't call Colt a smartie, but I'd say he was more physically overmatched than a dum dum. I wouldn't really call BQ a dum dum, either. Just irreversibly robotic thanks to Cha'lie.

Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

(And I think donald is right about Brady's arm...ETA: but we're past the point of hoping an NFL strength & conditioning program is going to change anything for Hoyer, so it really isn't a fair comparison)

Last edited by HoodooMan on Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.

Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.

Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

All you need to do is watch them to see the difference.

I did watch him, and them, and I'm only slightly disagreeing RE Brady, not disagreeing RE Hoyer.

BTW Brady didn't sling it around as much as people think he did, never has really. Frankly nobody does, but certainly not him. Yeah he had that really nice YPA, but 42% of his passing yards were YAC, right in the middle of the pack, same as his % of air yards (58%)(AYpA 4.82).

It would be interesting to see Hoyer given a legit shot on a team with few holes though IMHO, especially if he was 3 years younger.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.

Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

All you need to do is watch them to see the difference.

I did watch him, and them, and I'm only slightly disagreeing RE Brady, not disagreeing RE Hoyer.

BTW Brady didn't sling it around as much as people think he did, never has really. Frankly nobody does, but certainly not him. Yeah he had that really nice YPA, but 42% of his passing yards were YAC, right in the middle of the pack, same as his % of air yards (58%)(AYpA 4.82).

It would be interesting to see Hoyer given a legit shot on a team with few holes though IMHO, especially if he was 3 years younger.

I didn't necessarily mean YOU watch him, just that watching them demonstrates the diff.

I think Brady had an insane YPA in 2007 that wasn't all YAC, but he's always been good at picking teams apart with the short game as well, which Hoyer is good at too. Except teams had to respect the Brady deep ball because he could throw it (really accurately too), so he would take what they gave him. I'm afraid teams will take away the short stuff from Hoyer, and he won't have the weaponry to make them pay.

PS - Hoyer has THIS shot, and this is a mediocre team, so if he's gonna get it done this'll be the best chance he'll ever get.

FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.

Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

All you need to do is watch them to see the difference.

I did watch him, and them, and I'm only slightly disagreeing RE Brady, not disagreeing RE Hoyer.

BTW Brady didn't sling it around as much as people think he did, never has really. Frankly nobody does, but certainly not him. Yeah he had that really nice YPA, but 42% of his passing yards were YAC, right in the middle of the pack, same as his % of air yards (58%)(AYpA 4.82).

It would be interesting to see Hoyer given a legit shot on a team with few holes though IMHO, especially if he was 3 years younger.

The Raiders game...the one which Vinty made the greatest kick of all-time....Christ if Brady didn't display to the world what an arm he had rifling the ball in those conditions....

I don't think his arm is what it was 5 years ago, but it was far from "ok" at that time.

FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.

Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

All you need to do is watch them to see the difference.

I did watch him, and them, and I'm only slightly disagreeing RE Brady, not disagreeing RE Hoyer.

BTW Brady didn't sling it around as much as people think he did, never has really. Frankly nobody does, but certainly not him. Yeah he had that really nice YPA, but 42% of his passing yards were YAC, right in the middle of the pack, same as his % of air yards (58%)(AYpA 4.82).

It would be interesting to see Hoyer given a legit shot on a team with few holes though IMHO, especially if he was 3 years younger.

The Raiders game...the one which Vinty made the greatest kick of all-time....Christ if Brady didn't display to the world what an arm he had rifling the ball in those conditions....

I don't think his arm is what it was 5 years ago, but it was far from "ok" at that time.

SD:

Weeden has an Arm , no brain , no touch , no location , and no clock in his head which tells him to get rid of the ball .

""""Weeden has a great arm, but he’s historically had problems when asked to make more than one read. So, the Browns’ coaching staff set routes that had their receivers winning one-on-one battles downfield, and that was the key.""""

Quick what happens with a one trick pony when he can't find the plate.

FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.

Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

All you need to do is watch them to see the difference.

I did watch him, and them, and I'm only slightly disagreeing RE Brady, not disagreeing RE Hoyer.

BTW Brady didn't sling it around as much as people think he did, never has really. Frankly nobody does, but certainly not him. Yeah he had that really nice YPA, but 42% of his passing yards were YAC, right in the middle of the pack, same as his % of air yards (58%)(AYpA 4.82).

It would be interesting to see Hoyer given a legit shot on a team with few holes though IMHO, especially if he was 3 years younger.

The Raiders game...the one which Vinty made the greatest kick of all-time....Christ if Brady didn't display to the world what an arm he had rifling the ball in those conditions....

I don't think his arm is what it was 5 years ago, but it was far from "ok" at that time.

SD:

Weeden has an Arm , no brain , no touch , no location , and no clock in his head which tells him to get rid of the ball .

""""Weeden has a great arm, but he’s historically had problems when asked to make more than one read. So, the Browns’ coaching staff set routes that had their receivers winning one-on-one battles downfield, and that was the key.""""

Quick what happens with a one trick pony when he can't find the plate.

SoulDawg

The one trick pony will be slinging it for another 11 games before he goes to the CFL, so we get to see what happens soon enough. You're gonna start pimping Freeman in 3, 2, 1...........

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

peeker643 wrote:I'd take Freeman over Weeden and throw in one of your kidneys. And I don't necessarily think Freeman is a sustainable long term answer either.

Feh. No doubt he's a much better QB and Greg Sciano will be coaching a DII program pretty soon, but do you really want to muddy the waters any further? I mean the only reason you grab him is if you think you won't need to draft a first round QB next year. Otherwise I'm all for letting Weeds put the final nail in his own coffin. Like we've never been through a 5 win season before?

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

peeker643 wrote:I'd take Freeman over Weeden and throw in one of your kidneys. And I don't necessarily think Freeman is a sustainable long term answer either.

Feh. No doubt he's a much better QB and Greg Sciano will be coaching a DII program pretty soon, but do you really want to muddy the waters any further? I mean the only reason you grab him is if you think you won't need to draft a first round QB next year. Otherwise I'm all for letting Weeds put the final nail in his own coffin. Like we've never been through a 5 win season before?

SD:

Fuck That.

Why settle for that shit , when you have a defense who can play anybody in the league .

We're already out of the Bridgewater bowl , because the Jagoffs traded their Left tackle to the inbred to make sure there is no chance anybody knocks them off from their oh fer 16 march to infamy .

Nope better to try and win and get in and see what happens , then use our draft pick power to upgrade the QB spot and enjoy the best of both Worlds.

peeker643 wrote:I'd take Freeman over Weeden and throw in one of your kidneys. And I don't necessarily think Freeman is a sustainable long term answer either.

Feh. No doubt he's a much better QB and Greg Sciano will be coaching a DII program pretty soon, but do you really want to muddy the waters any further? I mean the only reason you grab him is if you think you won't need to draft a first round QB next year. Otherwise I'm all for letting Weeds put the final nail in his own coffin. Like we've never been through a 5 win season before?

It would be different if we were talking about investing picks to trade for him, but I think picking him up off waivers for the deal he is likely to get (extremely short term and cheap, IMO) I'm not sure he can muddy the waters all that much.

motherscratcher wrote:If they pick up Freeman to play over a healthy Weeden they might as well just cut the ginger. I can't imagine he'd take to kindly to that development.

Not that I think it would matter or anyone should care, but I don't know how big of a clubhouse problem he might be.

Kinda my point. Hypothetically you sign JF Saturday or Sunday. So then he needs to learn the offense, get timing down with the WRs, etc etc. To do that he needs reps - lotsa lotsa reps - which he gets where, exactly? If you sign him you almost gotta plan on playing him right away against the Lions. The bye week is 4 games from now, so I guess if you want to sign him and give him 20% of the very limited practice reps for the next 4 weeks and make the move during the week off then maybe I can see it.

You don't do this as a stop gap. You do it if you think he could be The One.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

motherscratcher wrote:If they pick up Freeman to play over a healthy Weeden they might as well just cut the ginger. I can't imagine he'd take to kindly to that development.

Not that I think it would matter or anyone should care, but I don't know how big of a clubhouse problem he might be.

Kinda my point. Hypothetically you sign JF Saturday or Sunday. So then he needs to learn the offense, get timing down with the WRs, etc etc. To do that he needs reps - lotsa lotsa reps - which he gets where, exactly? If you sign him you almost gotta plan on playing him right away against the Lions. The bye week is 4 games from now, so I guess if you want to sign him and give him 20% of the very limited practice reps for the next 4 weeks and make the move during the week off then maybe I can see it.

You don't do this as a stop gap. You do it if you think he could be The One.

There's lot's of definitions of "The One".

Miss Right Now.

Miss Fun for a While

Miss Right.

Hoo Doo, who is responsible for all of this, makes a good point. May be hard to get him at 3 - 2. But sign him and give him the reigns for 13 ala Rypien if campbell eally is a non-option.

mattvan1 wrote:Kinda my point. Hypothetically you sign JF Saturday or Sunday. So then he needs to learn the offense, get timing down with the WRs, etc etc. To do that he needs reps - lotsa lotsa reps - which he gets where, exactly? If you sign him you almost gotta plan on playing him right away against the Lions. The bye week is 4 games from now, so I guess if you want to sign him and give him 20% of the very limited practice reps for the next 4 weeks and make the move during the week off then maybe I can see it.

How is that any different from any other FA QB we can bring in to be our 3rd QB on the roster right now?

As much as I hate it, Weeden is obviously starting in 9 days against Detroit. And if he's bad enough to get pulled, it's going to be Campbell. But unless an entire team's QB depth chart dies in a horrible explosion or something, this is every team's situation right now, so Freeman's options are kind of limited, and I'd tend to think the chances of Weeden & Campbell being bad enough over the next four games to justify another starter after the bye week are at least as good here as they are anywhere else.

From our perspective, he's immediately a warm body, and possibly one with legit starter upside.

From his perspective, our QBs are terrible, and he might get a chance to play. "And if they could make that scrub Hoyer look good..."

mattvan1 wrote:Kinda my point. Hypothetically you sign JF Saturday or Sunday. So then he needs to learn the offense, get timing down with the WRs, etc etc. To do that he needs reps - lotsa lotsa reps - which he gets where, exactly? If you sign him you almost gotta plan on playing him right away against the Lions. The bye week is 4 games from now, so I guess if you want to sign him and give him 20% of the very limited practice reps for the next 4 weeks and make the move during the week off then maybe I can see it.

How is that any different from any other FA QB we can bring in to be our 3rd QB on the roster right now?

As much as I hate it, Weeden is obviously starting in 9 days against Detroit. And if he's bad enough to get pulled, it's going to be Campbell. But unless an entire team's QB depth chart dies in a horrible explosion or something, this is every team's situation right now, so Freeman's options are kind of limited, and I'd tend to think the chances of Weeden & Campbell being bad enough over the next four games to justify another starter after the bye week are at least as good here as they are anywhere else.

From our perspective, he's immediately a warm body, and possibly one with legit starter upside.

From his perspective, our QBs are terrible, and he might get a chance to play. "And if they could make that scrub Hoyer look good..."

Uh, cause we (at least the GMs on this board) aren't bringing him in as 3rd choice. And JF is not going to come here as 3rd choice. We're bringing him into start. But to start him means he needs reps, which means taking reps away from the guy that is going to start until JF is ready.

Unless you want to sign him and not promise him anything (wink wink, nudge nudge) and see what happens. This has the added effect of having Weeden looking over his shoulder every second of every day, which would hasten his departure.

So maybe it would work.

Not saying don't do it, just that's it not quite as simply as picking up a left handed relief pitcher at the deadline.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

mattvan1 wrote:Uh, cause we (at least the GMs on this board) aren't bringing him in as 3rd choice. And JF is not going to come here as 3rd choice. We're bringing him into start.

I don't see the necessity for such a commitment.

Actual possible course of action:

-Sign Freeman

-Start Weeden against Detroit, leave him in the game as long as things are going well, but if/when things take a bad turn and BW plays a part in it, pull him for Campbell. Repeat as necessary, week to week.

-At that point prep Freeman as much as you can with a target Start 1 of the first game after the bye.

Maybe you never get to Step 3 there, because BW takes off, or Campbell looks better than expected. (Note: these things probably won't happen.) Just give me the option to fall back on.

ETA: though my much preferred, but I assume impractical, course of action would be to just start Campbell now and begin prepping Freeman for the starting job immediately.

mattvan1 wrote:Uh, cause we (at least the GMs on this board) aren't bringing him in as 3rd choice. And JF is not going to come here as 3rd choice. We're bringing him into start.

I don't see the necessity for such a commitment.

Actual possible course of action:

-Sign Freeman

-Start Weeden against Detroit, leave him in the game as long as things are going well, but if/when things take a bad turn and BW plays a part in it, pull him for Campbell. Repeat as necessary, week to week.

-At that point prep Freeman as much as you can with a target Start 1 of the first game after the bye.

Maybe you never get to Step 3 there, because BW takes off, or Campbell looks better than expected. (Note: these things probably won't happen.) Just give me the option to fall back on.

ETA: though my much preferred, but I assume impractical, course of action would be to just start Campbell now and begin prepping Freeman for the starting job immediately.

I think the commitment is important because otherwise why would the guy sign to be inactive every game and get no reps in practice? You're not talking a journeyman type of guy- JF is bonafide with proven success. "Josh, we love you and think you have a bright future here and an opportunity to resurrect your career.""Great. Can't wait to get started. How do plan on working me in?""We don't. Not at first.""Uh, Ok. Where am I on the depth chart?""You're 3rd, behind Weeden and Campbell""Those stiffs!?!? Have you lost your mind?"

I thinks it's got be your much preferred option- bring the guy with a plan on when he starts. Wait and see what happens might not cut it. One thing going for the Browns is the guy will sit whoever he goes, at least for awhile, so why not here?

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

Thanks to Hoyer we are seeing a few things showing us just how fine the line is for being a capable QB to being a meh one, and to an offense fulfilling some of its potential.

On time and on target delivery, its a thing of freakin beauty in this town. It actually allows your play makers to....make plays. Which brings me to Gordon, let's not ignore the impact he has had on this offense in two games. Him and Hoyer have really complimented each other in their limited time together.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"