Got a friend bringing around his Manley Stringray next week sometime to compare against the Select.

I believe the Manley uses EL84 output tubes in push pull configuration...... I am also told by others apparently much more Knowledgeable than I, that despite being Push Pull it will beat the Select at its own game, insomuch as it will give the clarity and dynamics that the Selct does in mids and highs but with deep extended and controlled bass.

Any of you Guys done the comparison? Are the Manley Amps as good as I am being lead to believe?

push pull...............heresy Seriously, that Manley, I'm sure is good and good luck in your evaluation. You will need 4 times the power tubes to run it and an additional $1350 to buy it. I have not heard the Manley but it would have to really shame the Zen (which I doubt) for it to be 1350 bucks better to me. Of course YMMV.

It can be a problem I find with some HI FI Nerds Mike, Because they are aware of the cost of the little select, they almost want and will their big brash shiney knobbed obominations to trash the Select.

From experience the Little select can hold its head up very high indeed having recently seen off a $8k Papworth

Bring on the Manley I say lets give it a trouncing, But i know that at the time i will get the usual mutterings of " the select was better than i thought, it had more bass than i thought it would or should have, but i still prefer my $2.5k Manley". God i wish i could read what these guys are really thinking ;D

[quote author=Andy831 link=1170916578/0#2 date=1170938743]Bring on the Manley I say lets give it a trouncing, But i know that at the time i will get the usual mutterings of " the select was better than i thought, it had more bass than i thought it would or should have, but i still prefer my $2.5k Manley". God i wish i could read what these guys are really thinking ;D [/quote]

A friend of mine who has a melos triode 200+ and Pipedream speaker left my place after hearing the selects and HDT´s muttering under his breath "I think I took the wrong road in audio" :)

Extra power almost always sounds impressive on first listen ..... everything else being equal ..... ???

There are some things that extra horsepower is good for and there is no substitute, but with a suitable pair of loudspeakers (meaning high efficiency, friendly impedance and minimal or no crossover components) there is not much (if anything) that is more musical over the long haul than the Decware Zen amplifiers ..... especially considering the modest cost ..... ;)

I'm sure that the Manley is a fine sounding piece, but I would say that the Select will have no trouble "holding its own" in the musicality department.

Something else to think about ..... I have never been a big fan of active preamps, feeling that most of them got between me and the music. But, after hearing the CSP2, I have changed my mind on this matter. Paired with the Select, it gives a bigger, more robust sound with much improved upper bass and lower midrange. Depending on the rest of the equipment in the system, the CSP2 can make a huge difference ..... while still keeping the finesse of the single ended Select.

With the negative feedback in the Manley....please ... . If a Manely was better than my Select...I would own it. I've listened to a few. The push-pull to own is Steve's at a bargain (no neg feed too). People who don't do there homework and put together the right system in the right room treated = deserve to wallow in there ignorance.

I have been lurking at this forum for a while now...About 2 months ago, a friend lent me an old SE 84C he is not using any more (he is into WAVAC stuff now...).

I could not believe what I heard with my Prame 100 db horn speakers. Soon after that my Manley Lab Stingray 2x50 watt stereo push pull of 8 EL 84 was collecting dust (I have sold it since: too bad, it looked really great in the dark).

I could not believe the dynamics I heard from such a feeble amp: much more dynamics than with the 2x50 watts Manley using the same tubes (I am talking microdynamics here). Compared to the SE84C, the Manley sounded almost constipated, unliberated.

BUT the SE84C was clipping at times, especially on bass heavy content (Prame speakers have twin 30 cm woofers), such as hammond organ or electric piano (any time the bass lasted more than a brief time). I had to turn it down constantly to prevent clipping.To alleviate the problem, I bought the CSP (with the SE 84C still on loan from my friend).

I found that the clipping was now less of a problem and the CSP brought more finesse (with the right driver: an RCA 5U4B), but less "punch" and "weight" or "impact" to the sound.

You see I am a dynamics nut: there is nothing more dynamic that live music, and this is why you get so involved in a live concert: you are not going to listen while reading or watching TV or working if you are in front of a live band.

You CANNOT reach THE concert level dynamic range, EVER: you can only approach it . Just listen to a live drum solo ! The cymbal crash, the bass drum kick hits you in the chest and YET, it is not fatiguing (unless through a bad PA sound system).

Dynamic range is best when it is all the way up !Just think of the "contrast" knob on your PC monitor or TV set: Everybody turns it all the way up, because the constrast is never as good as what you see in reality. So if there was a "dynamic range level" knob on your amplifier , what would you do ? Turn it all the way up, of course ! That's when the music begins to grab you , when you have got to leave everything and do nothing but LISTEN ! That is why I got into high efficiency horns in the first place, then into SET after that: once you have heard SET amps on high efficiency speakers , you cannot go back to push pull.

I turns out that two months later (in fact, just today) I found (by accident) the solution to the CSP "finesse" vs "weight" dilemma: turn both volume pots all the way up, and turn the Ah Tjoeb volume output all the way down, then adjust volume with the Ah Tjoeb. This also works with the Taboo.

Last thursday, I got the Taboo. That first day I thought the 84SEC was better and that I was going to turn back the Taboo.I took more than 10 hours for the dynamics, bass and medium to come out. After a week it is still improving. I had to roll tubes to make a fair comparison with the SE 84C: RCA 5U4B, Valvo EL 84 (the CSP has all Siemens tubes, and RCA 5U4G rectifier for better dynamics).

Well, what is the verdict ?After a week of listening, I turned back the SE 84C to my friend with many thanks for the long term loan ! No more clipping, my friend, more punch, more bass, and no trade off: just as much finesse, but more dynamics ! Remember that "dynamic range" knob, the aural equivalent of your "contrast" knob ? Well, only one amp has it in the world: the Decware Taboo. I am talking about the two little knobs in front of the driver tube: they make a lot of difference to me : as you turn them up , the dynamic range increases, and the music is more "upfront" and involving. Of course, since I am a dynamics nut, I always turn them all the way up !

What about the "lucid" switch ? I hear less of a change with this switch than with the "dynamic constrast" knobs. But I do prefer the "lucid" position, for three reasons:1) Even more dynamic range, and this time, macro dynamic range (from low to high sound level) => you get more involved, music grabs your hears even more. Voices seem to be more "there" with the "lucid" switch on.2) More space: the soundstage seems to expand in all directions, including towards you: you feel more immersed in it, rather than in front of it.3) More finesse and harmonic texture: at first it feels you have turned on the "reverb" switch on a guitar amplifier. Except that too much reverb is fatiguing , because it adds something that was not there in the first place. Here it's different: you seem to hear more of the natural reverberant sounds that you did not hear before. You hear this best on a good piano recording: you hear more of the resonance inside the piano, all the piano strings that were not hit but resonate because they are close to the string that was played.

Also you hear more of the reverberant sound in the room, and this is heard especially on good "live" recorded concerts. this gives you a more "3D" sound. Turning back the switch to normal the aural scene appears more "flat", like a curved screen in front of you, rather than a bubble including you.

Just in case, I used to own the manley Stingray and sold it after I got to hear the CSP+taboo. I posted my impressions back in 2005, this is the post above.Never going back to push pull, that is for sure: too constipated:,no bloom , no fluidity, no microdynamics.SET is the way to go. Decware is SET made cheap, but with no compromise. Once you get CSP+taboo, the weekest link is the source or the speakers. The better the source and speakers (the more efficient the speakers), the better your taboo sounds.

Well the Manley arrived with its owner and we had a faily extended listening session. The select was better in all areas to my ears. The Stingray was good but the Select was better, More clarity better mids and highs and dare i say following the new tubes, it even held its own in the bass department.

I have now strapped two select`s together, Bass and grip have definately improved beyond recognition. Surely Steves amps are just the best there is.