Even so, the actual 911 call can be played in court and witnesses familiar with the voices of Zimmerman and Trayvon can testify to who they believe is screaming, the judge ruled.

So "experts" cannot testify because they have a stake in their method being legitimized, but witnesses familiar with either person from the incident can speculate as testimony even though they probably have a bias based on who they knew/know and how much they like him?

O'Mara said he would have liked to have found someone who could testify that it was Zimmerman screaming for help but evaluating the call was impossible.... Obviously he wanted someone to testify to help his client... Seriously, I want to type but can't because my brain wants to explode right now. He couldn't find someone to support his client, so obviously he's going to object to anything that works against him. I don't know to blame this asinine statement on the defense of the case, or the writer of the article... either way, my head hurts.

Popcorn Johnny:Well we know as a matter of fact he was doing something illegal. He was assaulting somebody.

Was he doing anything illegal prior to the assault?

Popcorn Johnny:Oh I know, you're going to come back with "he was standing his ground", right?

Lets go with that then. Trayvon was standing his ground and beating up Zimmerman. You do realize that Florida law allows Zimmerman to use deadly force to protect himself at that point, even if he was the aggressor, right?

And I think that's moronic that one can start a fight, shoot someone, and try to use the self-defense excuse to get out of it.

gimmegimme:lantawa: It's curious that I've seen virtually nothing written about the fact the Martin had years of football training in his past. Not only has it been documented that he was into a culture of orchestrated fight club type fighting scenes, but his football training. i.e., violent aggression training and toughening process for full contact interaction with other large and powerful young adults, also is a major factor in understanding his willingness to initial a violent confrontation. Don't most of you understand just how completely football drilling and training separates out athletes (especially full-contact sport athletes) from the general public? Among other things, Martin has given the youth football programs a black eye by grossly abusing and misusing his skills, power, and strength, God Rest His Soul and may he rest in peace.

Zimmerman? Well, he's a fat and excitable young man; much fatter now that the stress factors in his life are through the roof. He had no chance in a fight with Martin. He was screaming on that tape. Any fool can hear it. He most likely WOULD have died had he not shot Martin.

If he knew that he was physically unable to perform his duties as police officer, maybe he should have resigned from the force.

Popcorn Johnny:Mrtraveler01: but if he wasn't doing anything illegal that night, that still doesn't justify him getting killed.

Well we know as a matter of fact he was doing something illegal. He was assaulting somebody.

Oh I know, you're going to come back with "he was standing his ground", right?

Lets go with that then. Trayvon was standing his groundand beating up Zimmerman. You do realize that Florida law allows Zimmerman to use deadly force to protect himself at that point, even if he was the aggressor, right?

Giltric:Do you have other evidence to counter the known evidence of it being a righteous shoot?

That's what's so infuriating about these threads. They don't have one goddamn bit of evidence so they keep passing off speculations as facts as if they can sneak them by people that have actually taken some time to read up on the facts of the case. All of the evidence is available online, you'd think they'd take some time to educate themselves on something they're so passionate about.

Kyosuke:It's obvious to me, based upon the 911 call and Zimmerman's own wannabe cop background, that Zimmerman was the aggressor in the incident. As such he wasn't neither standing his ground nor defending others when he fired his weapon.

gimmegimme:TuteTibiImperes: Popcorn Johnny: gimmegimme: Perhaps he knew that he had the right to self-defense. Who knows?

///Gosh, I hate when people come into the thread and start speculating about things they don't know.

So which one is your side going with, Trayvon was a scared little kid trying to get away from a stalker, or that he was a man standing his ground? Considering his close proximity to his home, it has to be one or the other.

As for speculations, there's nothing wrong with them in these threads. What's wrong is the people, mostly on your side, that speculate as to what they think happened and then come to a conclusion that Zimmerman is guilty based on those speculations.

I say that Zimmerman is innocent not based on my speculations, but because there's no evidence that contradicts his version of events, and no evidence that he was the aggressor, or that he was not defending himself from great bodily harm when the shot was fired.

The 911 call recording has the operator telling Zimmerman that he doesn't need to Trayvon, but he does anyway. While Trayvon may have started the physical altercation later, none of it would have happened had Zimmerman just phoned in the suspicious person sighting and let the police handle it from there.

Think about what you're saying and the consequences. If Zim had let Martin get away, the kid would have eaten Skittles and had some Arizona while watching the second half of a basketball game.

Tat'dGreaser:There was a case up in Rochester, NY where a black guy shot a white kid outside of his home. That kid and his friends were breaking into cars, he went out to confront them and the kid charged him. The debate was that he shouldn't have gone out there to begin with. He ended up being cleared of all charges because the cops moved the body since the position clearly showed the kid charged the guy. Self defense, clear cut.

There was a case in Long Island, NY where a man named John White unlocked his door, left his house, walked down the driveway and shot and killed a teenager that was accusing Mr White's son of threatening to rape a girl.

John White was convicted of manslaughter after claiming his gun misfired. The governor freed him after 5 months.

Popcorn Johnny:Giltric: Do you have other evidence to counter the known evidence of it being a righteous shoot?

That's what's so infuriating about these threads. They don't have one goddamn bit of evidence so they keep passing off speculations as facts as if they can sneak them by people that have actually taken some time to read up on the facts of the case. All of the evidence is available online, you'd think they'd take some time to educate themselves on something they're so passionate about.

Popcorn Johnny:Bontesla: I also think the Special Prosecutor wouldn't have brought charges if she didn't have the evidence. She has a brilliant reputation and one of the highest conviction rate among her peers. She doesn't have a reputation for bringing charges that she can't prove in court.

We know what the evidence is, there isn't any. Hell, in the probable cause hearing, they were forced to admit to having no proof of most of the points in their probable cause affidavit.

She has a reputation for bringing charges on everything, including murder charges against a 12 year old that accidentally killed their brother. Think about it, why wouldn't she bring charges? She solidifies her reputation of being tough on crime and can throw her hands up and blame the legal system when she loses the case.

Some legal experts have even suggested that she should face sanctions for bringing charges in this case, given the lack of evidence.

LOL

Yeah. No. The lead detective thought there was enough evidence to charge Zimmerman. As did the Special Prosecutor. If she felt pressured to charge, she would have gone with something much easier to prove.

Hell, even Zimmerman bet against himself. If he couldn't even establish justifiable homicide under the low bar of SYG...

Either you're trolling or you're too invested in your beliefs that you're unreasonable.

I'm not sure, there was a lot of speculation that the whole reason he went to the 7-11 was to sell weed. The surveillance video shows him loitering around the front of the store for a while after buying his Skittles.

Mrtraveler01:falcon176: Trayvon was standing his ground cuz he felt threatened by Zimmerman who also stood his ground after Trayvon stood his ground and everybody stood their ground case dismissed too bad libs

Yeah, it's a horribly written law since both of them could have used the Stand Your Ground claim.

Well that is until one of them got shot.

That's the other big lesson. If you get in a fight in Florida, make sure you kill the other person. Do whatever it takes.

Hey look, the people that know absolutely nothing about the case are here to make assumptions.

Friend, a random citizen took it upon himself to follow a kid around in armed pursuit in a vehicle and then on foot. The target didn't know if he was going to be raped or kidnapped or stabbed or shot in the chest from a few inches away.

But I suppose you wouldn't consider it starting a fight if someone did the same thing to you.

no, i wouldnt be wearing a goddamn hoody slinking through a rich neighbourhood at night IN THE SUMMER. that spells disaster, always has, always will.

You know how I know you're racist?

/either that, or a fashionista to the point of retardation//pick one

You're forgetting the part where he thought February was summer.

Either or, but the fact that he feels that he brought it on himself because of what he was wearing says volumes. Bonus, it isn't because he was wearing the wrong coloured bandana in the wrong neighbourhood, it was because he was wearing the wrong kind of shirt through the RICH neighbourhood. Apparently fashion trends are enough to convict these days. Bet he thinks that rape victims brought on themselves because they shouldn't have been wearing such a short skirt.

The stupid in this guy's comment is so strong that admitting to be a racist may in fact be the lesser of two evils

Popcorn Johnny:Mrtraveler01: Was he doing anything illegal prior to the assault?

I'm not sure, there was a lot of speculation that the whole reason he went to the 7-11 was to sell weed. The surveillance video shows him loitering around the front of the store for a while after buying his Skittles.

Popcorn Johnny:Mrtraveler01: Was he doing anything illegal prior to the assault?

I'm not sure, there was a lot of speculation that the whole reason he went to the 7-11 was to sell weed. The surveillance video shows him loitering around the front of the store for a while after buying his Skittles.

See, I heard speculation that Zimmerman was trying to find John Titor the time traveller to get secrets about the future so he could win money betting on sports.

///This coming from the guy who said a zillion times in this thread that we should stick to the facts.

See: Alan Dershowitz. Or is a law professor and 50 year practitioner of criminal law not "expert" enough?

You need to look up the definition of "citation"

Are you looking for a citation that some legal experts think Corey overcharged? Because Alan Dershowitz is a legal expert who thought Corey overcharged. Did you not quote correctly when asking for your citation?

gimmegimme:This coming from the guy who said a zillion times in this thread that we should stick to the facts.

I said I'd stick to the facts in determining whether or not Zimmerman was guilty. I'm free to speculate about everything else, just like you. The difference is I separate the facts and speculations, while you think that one is the same as the other.

Bontesla:The_Six_Fingered_Man: jaytkay: Popcorn Johnny: Some legal experts have even suggested that she should face sanctions for bringing charges in this case, given the lack of evidence.

The FOX News legal experts, or the ones on AM radio?

How about Alan Dershowitz?

Unless he's gone over all of the depositions and the evidence catalog, he's talking out of his ass.

He's basing his opinion on the probable cause affidavit and all of the evidence that has been released. He charges that Corey filed a false affidavit because it did not include all known evidence at the time.

Summary of FBI expert http://videos of the frye hearing of the prosecution experts,

Take the name of the case away from this, I always found it sketchy that the special prosecutor brought in the fbi and justice dept to about the racism and the words and voices on the tape, didnt get what they wanted and basically ignored their findings paid "experts" for testimony using tax payer dollars to do what the fbi at their request had already done. Is there a point where you want a conviction a little too much?

After reading the wiki on this case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin and the hln website, my biggest issues with the prosecution case are that he was out of the car when the dispatcher asked him to stop and the continue to talk to him calmly for a minute or so zimmerman had lost track of martin, there is no way martin could not have made it home, he had to have waited or came back, witness 8 lied about her age, location during the funeral and could not spell her longtime friends and "boyfriends" name correctly in her written statement, and her statement seemed coached. (not that zimmermans statements are very consistent but the state had the burden of proof zimmerman does not have to take the stand) and the one eye witness "john" that stated he saw martin on top of zimmerman beating him and zimmerman was crying out for help?

This was a tragedy but murder two? manslaughter? or a govt trying to placate the masses with a really weak case that anyone can see there is enough reasonable doubt, key part being reasonable.

The moronic replies in this place just amazes me. Anyone that has read the details could never decide that Zimmerman is guilty of anything but stopping his own death. You don't attempt to beat someone like that unless you mean to maim or kill...period. But I guess one of these days you people will get your wish and see a law enforcement officer railroaded into jail or worse. As long as we have idiot reporters, lying "witnesses", lopsided media outlets, and minorities just "minding their own business"

jaytkay:Gun "rights" people are gonna be bummed if Zimmerman is convicted.

They dream day and night of shooting some dark-hued "bad guy".

As a responsible gun owner, and having been in bad spots, I am more afraid of ignorant white trash than I ever have been of anyone else. They're the ones who have been the most violent and callous.

I grew up in a predominantly ghetto black school system, and knew a lot of the gangs and their members. Most of these guys, unless they had a reason to go after you, you were fine. Stay off their turf, stay out of their way, and respect them, and they might hassle you a little but wouldn't get violent. No reason to. Very much a territorial/pack mentality. Don't be prey, don't piss on the lead dog.

Most white trash guys I've met would be violent for no good reason, and would attack you for fun.

However, all race aside, I would and have followed strange people I didn't recognize when they were slowly cruising the neighborhood or showing signs they were out of place. I've also been armed while doing so. If they take off and leave, no skin off my nose. I keep an eye on where they go, and call the cops if necessary. I do this because we have a lot of elderly around and we're way out. Prime targets for people looking to rob a place.

My criteria for suspicious, you ask? Driving excessively slow past a house. Pulling into driveways and not exiting your vehicle, then leaving again after loitering for a long period of time. Parking by the side of the road and heading towards a house across a field, especially towards dusk.

I'm also, in a lot of cases, way more direct than Zimmerman. If you're out of your car I'll stop and politely ask if you're lost or need help. I'll kindly ask what their business is and if they have no business or don't know the owner, I'll remind them they're on private property.

Had a lot of folks take off real quick, none ever turn around and get nasty or try to pick a fight. Never had to unconceal my weapon, either.

Only ever had to do that when some redneck whiskey tango fark with drop crotch pants and acting like a retard started waving a gun around and pointing it at people, or walk up to me out of the blue and start pushing me around for no reason (and he was later arrested for dealing meth).

See: Alan Dershowitz. Or is a law professor and 50 year practitioner of criminal law not "expert" enough?

You need to look up the definition of "citation"

Are you looking for a citation that some legal experts think Corey overcharged? Because Alan Dershowitz is a legal expert who thought Corey overcharged. Did you not quote correctly when asking for your citation?

So, given that she has a crazy high conviction rate - why would she risk that by overcharging? She could have gone with a much lesser murder charge. Are you suggesting that there's a conspiratorial ring pushing a brilliant attorney to risk her career over a fat man with a gun? She doesn't have a history of overcharging so why start now?

And this is speculating from a man who probably hasn't read every deposition.

If you can't see the alarming absurdity in your belief system then I can't help you.

See: Alan Dershowitz. Or is a law professor and 50 year practitioner of criminal law not "expert" enough?

You need to look up the definition of "citation"

Are you looking for a citation that some legal experts think Corey overcharged? Because Alan Dershowitz is a legal expert who thought Corey overcharged. Did you not quote correctly when asking for your citation?

Gestankfaust:The moronic replies in this place just amazes me. Anyone that has read the details could never decide that Zimmerman is guilty of anything but stopping his own death. You don't attempt to beat someone like that unless you mean to maim or kill...period. But I guess one of these days you people will get your wish and see a law enforcement officer railroaded into jail or worse. As long as we have idiot reporters, lying "witnesses", lopsided media outlets, and minorities just "minding their own business"

/rolls eyes

You know what? You're right. We just don't salute our heroes enough. They risk our lives every day to keep us safe.