No, it's about respect. Ras Zacka has none for those of us who don't understand the obvious affectation he's putting on when he posts here. When I want to know what the OO think, I'll ask Hiwot or Fr. Peter. At least they can discuss things with me instead of proverbially yelling at me. You once had a sympathetic ear about all this because I'm all about letting people who are actually a part of a group tell me about the group and take their words at face value. I see, however, that you and Ras Zacka don't have the respect for me or others to slow down and answer some very basic questions without throwing our ignorance in our faces.

Way to go. Hope you two are happy with yourselves.

Umm, excuse me but did not not read the lengthy post I spent an hour typing which clarified in sophisticated and proper English exactly what points that brother was making through is affections? Please easy with the accusations, I have been trying my best to facilitate and explain for people who don't know, but unlike on other threads in the past, people have been needless hostile and antagonistic to me, Ras Zacka, and GMK on this thread, and we've kept our cool surprisingly well all things considering. I have been getting way to much antagonism from this forum lately, folks should ease up with all this cuss cuss and mix up..

I must admit, this personal slander and attack on Ras Zacka on my thread is beginning to upset me, it is bordering on racism as well, and folks should kindly refrain from continuing down that line outside of the PM.

stay blessed,habte selassie

OK. Now you back up those "allegations".

Where is the "racism"? Or what borders on it? Be specific. I want quotes. And names.

That you even believe in race as a legitimate construct anymore is quite odd.

Had Ras Zacka been speaking with these folks here face to face, with his accent, mannerisms, and specific way of speaking, which is also a particularly black cultural way of speaking, and folks were to be so dismissive to his words and say the say mean-spirited criticisms of his way of speaking to his face, that would be blatantly racist, because the brother happens to use black cultural expressions. Hiding behind the internet is not fair, hiding behind being the grammar police is not fair. The brother expressed black cultural values and ways of speaking, and several folks insisted on attacking not the substance of his post, but simply the way he speaks. That is not fair. I am not trying to insinuate that those who criticized him were racist, but I would say their comments and continued insisting on criticizing the way he spoke, is yes, bordering on racism, because it is a "black cultural" way in which he was speaking. Did folks terrorize Sister Hiwot when she posted comments saying she didn't feel her english was strong? No, they politely ignored any typos or misspellings or grammatical errors (which by the way, for her are very few, she is very eloquent with her English whether she realizes it or not )just as when other folks who speak English as a second language have grammar errors, folks don't berate them over it. Folks here shouldn't have berated brother Ras Zacka over these matters either, especially considering the brother is part of the Orthodox communion, even if he has views folks here disagree with.

Now as to regards to Sister Hiwot, please put me in my place dear sister, instead of burning all that hotta fyah, why don't you just back away with all your mix up and your cuss cuss , I ain't having it anymore. You have been arrogant, rude, and dismissive to your brothers and sisters as if we were trash in the street. You draw lines in the sand that even our own clergy and confessors do not draw, as if you yourself were the blessed Patriarch of the Church or a Metropolitan Bishop. You make so many wild assumptions, and then when we clarify for you, instead of hearing us, you continue with your wild assumptions. I tell you our priests don't diss us, so you just assume our priests are ignorant. Do you think we lie or hide our day to day reality from our priests? No sister, but they are wiser in the Apostolic Faith than you, because they are not divisive, dismissive, or vitriolic, they are loving, peaceful, and prayerful.

Is it Orthodox for ones to worship the Emperor as God? Of course not, and NOBODY HERE AS SUGGESTED SUCH! Please, I'm through with this, go ahead and put ini on your block list, because you've been denser than lead for a week now anyways, and I am so thoroughly vexed and appalled all I can do is pray. If you had continued in your accusations without folks having addressed your points, then I would not be upset, but that you continue to simply ignore what we say, or dismiss it as nonsense, when it is our reality, that is just simply in poor taste and as I said rude. This thread was going in a wonderful direction, but folks have derailed it, and that is a shame. Folks have turned this into a silly, straw-man argument where we Rastafari members of the Ethiopian Church and of this OC.NET forum as spent a considerable amount of time and patience explaining ourselves, only to be insistently dismissed, disregarded, and disrespected. Oh well..

Check it though..

"If ya a bull-bucka.. let me tell ya this.. I'm a duppy, conqueror!"

Easy on the hotta fyah, seen? Check this, the fyah is not partial, not even to them that burn the fyah, so be careful what ya kindle and burn, all that red red anger vibes might just burn ya up in the mix. Or as Apostle Paul said to those who want "proper English and grammer" in Galatians 5,

Quote

"Beware if you bite and devour one another, less at some time you be consumed."

stay blessed,habtte selassie

If it's racism, why does Hiwot get a free pass? Isn't she black, too?

It has nothing to do with race, but everything to do with being over aggressive and obfuscating. Unless you are actually Jamaican, and I do not for a second believe Ras Zacka is, typing out such a dialect is not natural but an affectation and a choice. Hiwot's slips in grammar, syntax and spelling aren't done deliberately; Ras Zacka's are. Your stroking of him is a part of the problem, hence my first comment directed at you.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 02:28:10 PM by Schultz »

Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.--"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18--I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --Life went on no matter who was wrong or right

But Schultz, Ethiopians do not realize they are black! (see Habte's post #134)

So they don't count, for some reason. Oh, and by the way, in case you were wondering, yes it is COMPLETELY fine for Habte to say that while accusing the rest of us of racism because we can't understand the Rastafarian manner of speech. COMPLETELY FINE. That's not hypocritical, bigoted, patronizing BS at all. We just don't understand, or overstand, or whatever.

Any other race at all no matter what you say = never because disagreeing with anyone of an african race is automatic racism no matter what you say or how correct you are and how insanely idiotic or rabidly absurd the things your debating opponent says.

PP

Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

No, it's about respect. Ras Zacka has none for those of us who don't understand the obvious affectation he's putting on when he posts here. When I want to know what the OO think, I'll ask Hiwot or Fr. Peter. At least they can discuss things with me instead of proverbially yelling at me. You once had a sympathetic ear about all this because I'm all about letting people who are actually a part of a group tell me about the group and take their words at face value. I see, however, that you and Ras Zacka don't have the respect for me or others to slow down and answer some very basic questions without throwing our ignorance in our faces.

Way to go. Hope you two are happy with yourselves.

Umm, excuse me but did not not read the lengthy post I spent an hour typing which clarified in sophisticated and proper English exactly what points that brother was making through is affections? Please easy with the accusations, I have been trying my best to facilitate and explain for people who don't know, but unlike on other threads in the past, people have been needless hostile and antagonistic to me, Ras Zacka, and GMK on this thread, and we've kept our cool surprisingly well all things considering. I have been getting way to much antagonism from this forum lately, folks should ease up with all this cuss cuss and mix up..

I must admit, this personal slander and attack on Ras Zacka on my thread is beginning to upset me, it is bordering on racism as well, and folks should kindly refrain from continuing down that line outside of the PM.

stay blessed,habte selassie

OK. Now you back up those "allegations".

Where is the "racism"? Or what borders on it? Be specific. I want quotes. And names.

That you even believe in race as a legitimate construct anymore is quite odd.

Had Ras Zacka been speaking with these folks here face to face, with his accent, mannerisms, and specific way of speaking, which is also a particularly black cultural way of speaking, and folks were to be so dismissive to his words and say the say mean-spirited criticisms of his way of speaking to his face, that would be blatantly racist, because the brother happens to use black cultural expressions. Hiding behind the internet is not fair, hiding behind being the grammar police is not fair. The brother expressed black cultural values and ways of speaking, and several folks insisted on attacking not the substance of his post, but simply the way he speaks. That is not fair. I am not trying to insinuate that those who criticized him were racist, but I would say their comments and continued insisting on criticizing the way he spoke, is yes, bordering on racism, because it is a "black cultural" way in which he was speaking. Did folks terrorize Sister Hiwot when she posted comments saying she didn't feel her english was strong? No, they politely ignored any typos or misspellings or grammatical errors (which by the way, for her are very few, she is very eloquent with her English whether she realizes it or not )just as when other folks who speak English as a second language have grammar errors, folks don't berate them over it. Folks here shouldn't have berated brother Ras Zacka over these matters either, especially considering the brother is part of the Orthodox communion, even if he has views folks here disagree with.

Now as to regards to Sister Hiwot, please put me in my place dear sister, instead of burning all that hotta fyah, why don't you just back away with all your mix up and your cuss cuss , I ain't having it anymore. You have been arrogant, rude, and dismissive to your brothers and sisters as if we were trash in the street. You draw lines in the sand that even our own clergy and confessors do not draw, as if you yourself were the blessed Patriarch of the Church or a Metropolitan Bishop. You make so many wild assumptions, and then when we clarify for you, instead of hearing us, you continue with your wild assumptions. I tell you our priests don't diss us, so you just assume our priests are ignorant. Do you think we lie or hide our day to day reality from our priests? No sister, but they are wiser in the Apostolic Faith than you, because they are not divisive, dismissive, or vitriolic, they are loving, peaceful, and prayerful.

Is it Orthodox for ones to worship the Emperor as God? Of course not, and NOBODY HERE AS SUGGESTED SUCH! Please, I'm through with this, go ahead and put ini on your block list, because you've been denser than lead for a week now anyways, and I am so thoroughly vexed and appalled all I can do is pray. If you had continued in your accusations without folks having addressed your points, then I would not be upset, but that you continue to simply ignore what we say, or dismiss it as nonsense, when it is our reality, that is just simply in poor taste and as I said rude. This thread was going in a wonderful direction, but folks have derailed it, and that is a shame. Folks have turned this into a silly, straw-man argument where we Rastafari members of the Ethiopian Church and of this OC.NET forum as spent a considerable amount of time and patience explaining ourselves, only to be insistently dismissed, disregarded, and disrespected. Oh well..

Check it though..

"If ya a bull-bucka.. let me tell ya this.. I'm a duppy, conqueror!"

Easy on the hotta fyah, seen? Check this, the fyah is not partial, not even to them that burn the fyah, so be careful what ya kindle and burn, all that red red anger vibes might just burn ya up in the mix. Or as Apostle Paul said to those who want "proper English and grammer" in Galatians 5,

Quote

"Beware if you bite and devour one another, less at some time you be consumed."

stay blessed,habtte selassie

If it's racism, why does Hiwot get a free pass? Isn't she black, too?

It has nothing to do with race, but everything to do with being over aggressive and obfuscating. Unless you are actually Jamaican, and I do not for a second believe Ras Zacka is, typing out such a dialect is not natural but an affectation and a choice. Hiwot's slips in grammar, syntax and spelling aren't done deliberately; Ras Zacka's are. Your stroking of him is a part of the problem, hence my first comment directed at you.

And to be fair, Hiwot was asked to use paragraphs and the like when she started posting here to make her posts readable. So it ain't like one person ever been asked to make syntactic changes around to make their more clear.

White space is your friend (unfortunate pun). Folks think everyone uses paragraphs the same, even in the European languages. They don't. In German it is sorta willy nilly. One of the first stylistic things I would teach German writers were the "rules" for paragraphing in English.

On the internet white space is especially useful, some devices it is nearly impossible to read without a lot of white space in what you are reading.

So I think it has more to do with if you buy into the Rastafarian way of looking at things. If we'd all just agree that they can be Rastas and chant "JAH Rastafari" and still be Orthodox, this entire argument would never have happened.

So I think it has more to do with if you buy into the Rastafarian way of looking at things. If we'd all just agree that they can be Rastas and chant "JAH Rastafari" and still be Orthodox, this entire argument would never have happened.

It was a straw man argument to make a point. My apologies for not being more clear.

PP

Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

I'm aware of that. I wrote that because I think this is the one situation in this whole mess that isn't about race/racism. As Gebre shows us, non-black people can also get sucked into this mindset, and hence be accepted as "enlightened" in a way that the rest of us (black, brown, white, other) can only hope to be...

To be fair to the Ethiopians are not black argument, I work with no fewer than four Ethiopians on a weekly basis, one a daily basis.

Three of them would not be described as "black" by most Americans, white or black. In fact, when folks try to politically correctly refer to them without knowing their nationality, they say Middle Eastern or Indian.

Race is a silly construct. And yet we are stuck with it. It makes sense on a day to day level. I am one of the few "white" people in a "black" neighborhood. Everyone around would call me "that white boy" or to further differentiate they might say that "red-headed white boy".

And most white folks wouldn't call me red-headed nor a boy.

And yet, I am more much similar to the black folks I live around in many ways than a Black American in one of the nicer neighborhoods in my city probably or a dark skinned Nigerian who just got to America.

Habte of all people should be wary of the "race card" as he seems to have gone to school to learn all about this sorta thing.

And he didn't respond to my question about his "race". I guessed Latino. Maybe he goes in for Hispanic, who knows.

The difference between Latino and Hispanic itself is interesting and confused.

To be fair to the Ethiopians are not black argument, I work with no fewer than four Ethiopians on a weekly basis, one a daily basis.

Three of them would not be described as "black" by most Americans, white or black. In fact, when folks try to politically correctly refer to them without knowing their nationality, they say Middle Eastern or Indian.

Yes, Ethiopians come in a variety of hues. But I'm afraid Americans or Jamaicans or anybody else do not have the power to decide what Ethiopians should consider themselves. That's up to the Ethiopians, no? So if some consider themselves black and some not, fine. What does it have to do with Rastafarians other than their fetishization of Ethiopia and apparent infantilization and dismissal of Ethiopians as a people who do not understand who they are, do not understand their history, their own rulers, their religions, etc.? That's what I'm arguing against, and that seems to be very prevalent in the Rasta mindset as expressed by the Rastafarians who live in Shashamene, and echoed by the Rastafarians here when they make comments about the Ethiopians being rude, ungrateful, stiff-necked, you name it. I'm not standing up for any racial construct. I'm standing up for the idea that Ethiopians have the right to say what it is acceptable and/or true about these issues so far as they concern Ethiopians and Ethiopia. Not Rastas from America, or Jamaica, or anyone else.

Might I also say, because this made me think of it: It is very, very funny to me that the Rastafarians should choose to take this kind of stance towards Ethiopians, of all African people. If it is all about black liberation and consciousness and anti-slavery and all that, why the heck would they choose to try to peddle their religion and worldview to and among the ONLY people of Africa who were never successfully colonized by an outside power, who have one of the few pre-colonial literatures and surviving indigenous writing systems of Africa, who had their own indigenous Orthodox Christian church and religion for about twelve centuries before the first African slaves were even brought to Jamaica, who are among only TWO peoples of Africa (the other being the Egyptians, who are also reinvented as "black" by the Africanist historians; I can guarantee you none of my Coptic friends consider themselves to be black!) to be specifically blessed in the Holy Bible, who kicked out the Italians not once but twice, etc.

Or, to look at it another way: It is understandable why, then, the African world and its diaspora in places like Jamaica would look to Ethiopia as a sort of homeland or spiritual resource in the long and ongoing struggle for equality. What is not understandable, to me at least, is why the Rastafarians and others would be shocked or hurt that the Ethiopians by and large reject them just as they rejected being ruled, educated, or told what to do by anybody throughout their thousands upon thousands of years of history. That's what we're really dealing with here, it seems. The Ethiopians don't need or care for Rastas telling them this or that about their own history, and so allegations of racism fly even if they make absolutely no sense, because there's no coherent argument that can be made as to why the Ethiopians should take some mixed-up cult started in Jamaica in the 1930s the least bit seriously when that cult's entire lifespan is but a tiny blip on the timeline of Ethiopian history, and not related to it but by the Ethiopians' own generosity (in giving the Rastas a place to settle in Shashamene) and the Rastafarians' own delusions.

Quote

And he didn't respond to my question about his "race". I guessed Latino. Maybe he goes in for Hispanic, who knows.

The difference between Latino and Hispanic itself is interesting and confused.

Again, race is rather muddled the more sophisticatedly you begin to discuss it.

As a white Hispanic person, I don't get it either. My grandmother came from Mexico, but that doesn't mean I'm going to tell the guerrillas in Chiapas how to be free or whatever. They don't need some outsider's blessing. I wouldn't go so far as to say race is "silly" (as it is obviously quite powerful; see: this thread), but I do wish that people would do more to recognize its power and hence respect it enough not to drop it at the first sign of an argument they can't win.

I hear ya. Just musing on my own about the difficulties surrounding race and race baiting.

I could go on all day about the ambiguities and ultimate emptiness of the notion of race, but as I said it is a "real thing" in the day to day.

Oh, I know, Orthonorm. I hope that didn't come off as argumentative, I just wanted to make clear that I'm not even dipping a toe into the "what race are Ethiopians" debate. Only trying to tell the Rastas here to knock it off with that because they, like me, do not have any say in that. Some say they are black, some maybe don't say that (I've never known an Ethiopian who denied being black, but it could happen I guess), but if you love Ethiopia and Ethiopians so much that really shouldn't be such a sticking point. Respect them as they see themselves (including their right not to buy into Rasta worldviews) or take your racist garbage and go back to Jamaica or New York or wherever. The key to "self-determination" is the "self" part, and Ethiopians had that down pat looong before the Rastas came to Shashamene, or even existed.

Michal: Ethiopia's Orthodox church has not been directly under the leadership of Alexandria since the 1940s or so (I can't remember the exact year). So it is not correct to refer to them as "Copts" anymore, even though you still see it sometimes (e.g., I have a record album of the Ethiopian liturgy from 1965 that is titled "Coptic Liturgy" even though it has a huge reproduction of the famous Ethiopian-style triptych icon on the cover, with Ge'ez writing and the whole bit. The recording itself is far away from the Coptic liturgy. )

Just like LizaSymonenko defends my belief of the sanity of the Ukrainians Hiwot does that for Copts.

Is this some finer point of Orthodoxy I don't understand? Michal, she is Ethiopian. //;=)

Sorry, Hiwot.

Can you rephrase your question for an ESL to understand?

My question was a little rhetorical. I didn't know if you were trying to make a point by referring to Hiwot as a Copt. I don't know much about the politics there. I thought it might have been an honest mistake or some subtle Orthodox point you were trying to make.

To be fair to the Ethiopians are not black argument, I work with no fewer than four Ethiopians on a weekly basis, one a daily basis.

Three of them would not be described as "black" by most Americans, white or black. In fact, when folks try to politically correctly refer to them without knowing their nationality, they say Middle Eastern or Indian.

Yes, Ethiopians come in a variety of hues. But I'm afraid Americans or Jamaicans or anybody else do not have the power to decide what Ethiopians should consider themselves. That's up to the Ethiopians, no? So if some consider themselves black and some not, fine. What does it have to do with Rastafarians other than their fetishization of Ethiopia and apparent infantilization and dismissal of Ethiopians as a people who do not understand who they are, do not understand their history, their own rulers, their religions, etc.? That's what I'm arguing against, and that seems to be very prevalent in the Rasta mindset as expressed by the Rastafarians who live in Shashamene, and echoed by the Rastafarians here when they make comments about the Ethiopians being rude, ungrateful, stiff-necked, you name it. I'm not standing up for any racial construct. I'm standing up for the idea that Ethiopians have the right to say what it is acceptable and/or true about these issues so far as they concern Ethiopians and Ethiopia. Not Rastas from America, or Jamaica, or anyone else.

Might I also say, because this made me think of it: It is very, very funny to me that the Rastafarians should choose to take this kind of stance towards Ethiopians, of all African people. If it is all about black liberation and consciousness and anti-slavery and all that, why the heck would they choose to try to peddle their religion and worldview to and among the ONLY people of Africa who were never successfully colonized by an outside power, who have one of the few pre-colonial literatures and surviving indigenous writing systems of Africa, who had their own indigenous Orthodox Christian church and religion for about twelve centuries before the first African slaves were even brought to Jamaica, who are among only TWO peoples of Africa (the other being the Egyptians, who are also reinvented as "black" by the Africanist historians; I can guarantee you none of my Coptic friends consider themselves to be black!) to be specifically blessed in the Holy Bible, who kicked out the Italians not once but twice, etc.

Or, to look at it another way: It is understandable why, then, the African world and its diaspora in places like Jamaica would look to Ethiopia as a sort of homeland or spiritual resource in the long and ongoing struggle for equality. What is not understandable, to me at least, is why the Rastafarians and others would be shocked or hurt that the Ethiopians by and large reject them just as they rejected being ruled, educated, or told what to do by anybody throughout their thousands upon thousands of years of history. That's what we're really dealing with here, it seems. The Ethiopians don't need or care for Rastas telling them this or that about their own history, and so allegations of racism fly even if they make absolutely no sense, because there's no coherent argument that can be made as to why the Ethiopians should take some mixed-up cult started in Jamaica in the 1930s the least bit seriously when that cult's entire lifespan is but a tiny blip on the timeline of Ethiopian history, and not related to it but by the Ethiopians' own generosity (in giving the Rastas a place to settle in Shashamene) and the Rastafarians' own delusions.

Quote

And he didn't respond to my question about his "race". I guessed Latino. Maybe he goes in for Hispanic, who knows.

The difference between Latino and Hispanic itself is interesting and confused.

Again, race is rather muddled the more sophisticatedly you begin to discuss it.

As a white Hispanic person, I don't get it either. My grandmother came from Mexico, but that doesn't mean I'm going to tell the guerrillas in Chiapas how to be free or whatever. They don't need some outsider's blessing. I wouldn't go so far as to say race is "silly" (as it is obviously quite powerful; see: this thread), but I do wish that people would do more to recognize its power and hence respect it enough not to drop it at the first sign of an argument they can't win.

I have no words! Truly the Lord defends those who trust in him!

for the record ...Ethiopians have few names they call themselves by , but first and foremost is Habesha, the Dark skinned ones , when I meet an Ethiopian I do not know here in US, just to make sure I usually ask the standard question ' are you habesha/ abesha?' to mean are you Ethiopian I am not thinking skin color but national origion although the term's original meaning is of skin color.

example of this: when I met a sudanise man once I asked him are you habesha he said yes smiling, so i started to talk in Amharic, and he asked me if i could speak Arabic , so I asked why? he said because he is from Sudan, and I said oh you are not habesha then, he said oh but I am, he was grinning , then I understood what he meant, obviously he knew that Ethiopians call themselves habesha to mean Ethiopian but both he and i were habesha in the truest sense of the term. he told me that he likes to shock Ethiopians by telling them that they are not the only habesh/blacks on the block/Africa/ lol so we had some loughs about it.

any way, thank you for the above post , and everyone else who left a kind word in here. keep me in your prayers.

in Christ,Hiwot.

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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

I love that story, Hiwot. There were a small group of Sudanese who were sort of attached to/mixed in with the habesha community in my home area of northern California. Very, very nice, humble people! (Just like the Ethiopians and Eritreans, too.)

dhzeremi, oh yeah the Sudanise people are wonderful people and thousands of Ethiopians will attest to that fact, they are family to us, in the hour of our need they have continued to be there for us. Most that have faced the refugee life in Sudan , remember Sudan with love even though the times were the darkest of times in their lives.

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Is it the norm in Rastafarian culture to agree with everything your bredren says?

Nope. And Neither Ras Zacka, Arnaud, Habte Selassie, nor I have indicated otherewise. Some of the most intense debates I've ever seen were amongst Rastas. However, Rastas have a way of vigorously debating, arguing, and "reasoning" without personally attacking or disparaging their bredren/brethren. Obviously something that all of us here could learn from.

Selam

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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

I dunno your ethnic background, latino? But Gebre is pretty darn white and I've seen Rastas that would beat him down running that game around them.

And he has said as much.

Don't put words in my mouth brother. I can speak clearly for myself. I fear no Rastaman anymore than I fear my fellow Orthodox brethren. I have had a few ostensible Rastas that threatened me because I was promoting the Orthodox Tewahedo Church. But I felt no fear, and their belligerence revealed their heart to be at odds with the authentic peace and love that Rastafari is truly about (not some hippyism, faddish, pot smoking "peace and love" as you have tried to portray it.)

I don't run any "game" brother. Right or wrong, I come from my heart and live and move in sincerity. So please watch your condescending accusations and stop falsely attributing things to me that simply are not true.

Thank you brother.

Selam

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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

dhzeremi, oh yeah the Sudanise people are wonderful people and thousands of Ethiopians will attest to that fact, they are family to us, in the hour of our need they have continued to be there for us. Most that have faced the refugee life in Sudan , remember Sudan with love even though the times were the darkest of times in their lives.

Thanks for those videos, Hiwot. Sayed Khalifa is good. I'm afraid I don't know as many newer Sudanese artists. A few of the oldies like Abdel Karim el-Kabli have performed often in Ethiopia, though (el-Kabli even released an album of one of his concerts in Ethiopia). The real surprise for me, though: I never heard Miriam Makeba sing anything in Amharic. Wow! Very impressive! She was quite a talented artist. It's a real loss to the world that she and Tilahun (and Menelik Wossenatchew, right?) have passed away now. May God rest their souls.

I dunno your ethnic background, latino? But Gebre is pretty darn white and I've seen Rastas that would beat him down running that game around them.

And he has said as much.

Don't put words in my mouth brother. I can speak clearly for myself. I fear no Rastaman anymore than I fear my fellow Orthodox brethren. I have had a few ostensible Rastas that threatened me because I was promoting the Orthodox Tewahedo Church. But I felt no fear, and their belligerence revealed their heart to be at odds with the authentic peace and love that Rastafari is truly about (not some hippyism, faddish, pot smoking "peace and love" as you have tried to portray it.)

I don't run any "game" brother. Right or wrong, I come from my heart and live and move in sincerity. So please watch your condescending accusations and stop falsely attributing things to me that simply are not true.

Thank you brother.

Selam

Should I quote you? The whole persecution thing sometimes backfires.

You said you have had your life threatened, but maybe I read wrong. Let me check . . .

I devote much of my life to promoting the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith to Rastafarians. I have debated, argued, discussed, and reasoned with Haile Selassie worshipers ad infinitum in an attempt to lead them to Jesus Christ and His True Orthodox Church. I have been persecuted and threatened by some Rastas for daring to proclaim Jesus Christ as the Way, the Truth, and the Life. But apparrently my Faith is now being questioned by an Orthodox sister. It makes me very sad.

Rastas have a way of vigorously debating, arguing, and "reasoning" without personally attacking or disparaging their bredren/brethren. Obviously something that all of us here could learn from.

Like threatening you . . . but you weren't scared so it really wasn't a threat cause you see into people's hearts or something.

Well I've seen some of their "debate tactics" and I dunno if ending up in a hospital counts as "personal attacks" but people do end up their. Worse, I hear, I mean skipping the hospital, unless they have to actually call the code there.

I dunno your ethnic background, latino? But Gebre is pretty darn white and I've seen Rastas that would beat him down running that game around them.

And he has said as much.

Don't put words in my mouth brother. I can speak clearly for myself. I fear no Rastaman anymore than I fear my fellow Orthodox brethren. I have had a few ostensible Rastas that threatened me because I was promoting the Orthodox Tewahedo Church. But I felt no fear, and their belligerence revealed their heart to be at odds with the authentic peace and love that Rastafari is truly about (not some hippyism, faddish, pot smoking "peace and love" as you have tried to portray it.)

I don't run any "game" brother. Right or wrong, I come from my heart and live and move in sincerity. So please watch your condescending accusations and stop falsely attributing things to me that simply are not true.

Thank you brother.

Selam

Should I quote you? The whole persecution thing sometimes backfires.

You said you have had your life threatened, but maybe I read wrong. Let me check . . .

I devote much of my life to promoting the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith to Rastafarians. I have debated, argued, discussed, and reasoned with Haile Selassie worshipers ad infinitum in an attempt to lead them to Jesus Christ and His True Orthodox Church. I have been persecuted and threatened by some Rastas for daring to proclaim Jesus Christ as the Way, the Truth, and the Life. But apparrently my Faith is now being questioned by an Orthodox sister. It makes me very sad.

Selam

Nope. Still literate.

Can't have it both ways.

But you will try.

Your dishonesty is sickening. You are a coward. I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt for a long time now, but no longer. You can cast your aspersions and deliberately misconstrue my words and intentions on this public forum, but you don't even have the integrity or courage to call me and speak to me like a man. I've offered to speak to you personally numerous times, but you refuse. Fine. But your cowardice is unbelievable. Really. BTW, the offer still extends. Call me whenever you want, and be a man about it.

Selam

For viciously attacking another poster by calling him a coward, you are hereby on post moderation for the next 40 days. If you think this action wrong, feel free to appeal it to Veniamin.

- PeterTheAleut

« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 01:40:25 AM by PeterTheAleut »

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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

Rastas have a way of vigorously debating, arguing, and "reasoning" without personally attacking or disparaging their bredren/brethren. Obviously something that all of us here could learn from.

Like threatening you . . . but you weren't scared so it really wasn't a threat cause you see into people's hearts or something.

Well I've seen some of their "debate tactics" and I dunno if ending up in a hospital counts as "personal attacks" but people do end up their. Worse, I hear, I mean skipping the hospital, unless they have to actually call the code there.

But WTH do I know?

Obviously not much.

Selam

Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

Your dishonesty is sickening. You are a coward. I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt for a long time now, but no longer. You can cast your aspersions and deliberately misconstrue my words and intentions on this public forum, but you don't even have the integrity or courage to call me and speak to me like a man. I've offered to speak to you personally numerous times, but you refuse. Fine. But your cowardice is unbelievable. Really. BTW, the offer still extends. Call me whenever you want, and be a man about it.

Your dishonesty is sickening. You are a coward. I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt for a long time now, but no longer. You can cast your aspersions and deliberately misconstrue my words and intentions on this public forum, but you don't even have the integrity or courage to call me and speak to me like a man. I've offered to speak to you personally numerous times, but you refuse. Fine. But your cowardice is unbelievable. Really. BTW, the offer still extends. Call me whenever you want, and be a man about it.

However, Rastas have a way of vigorously debating, arguing, and "reasoning" without personally attacking or disparaging their bredren/brethren. Obviously something that all of us here could learn from.

you all can lock down this RACIST SHOP..NOT TOLERATED IN USA OR ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY..Orthodox racist..not christians..CHRISTIANITY BASED ON GOOD SAMARATAN IS LACKING IN YR EYES.ORIENTAL ORTHODOX CHURCH separate from you PAGAN eastern orthodox long time and we should not bein same BED.SO THATS WHY YOU FIGHT PPL OF COLOUR AND THEIR SYMPATHIZERS..GO wash yr all self in cleansing water.Dont ant one of you pretend yr christians and you cannot save souls.YR FATHER satan got you RASCIST LOW DOWN INHUMANE SWORTHLESS DEMONIC PEOPLE.HOW DISGUSTING YOU ALL ARE.WHEN I GO TO YR FORUM IS LIKE DREAMING NIGHTMARES OF MOVIES ABOUT HELL.OUR AFRICAN ZION WILL STAND ALONE UNTIL JAH JUDGES YOU ALL.REPENT THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND WICKED MEN.CHRIST NEVER SUPPORT GAYS OR ABORTION.YOU DIRTY FALSE CHRISTIANS..GO COVER YR SHAME AND GET KNOWLEDGE OF LOVE AND HOW TO SAVE SOULS AND HELP HOMELESS NIGGERS WHO YU ALL MESS UP..ITS A DOWN RIGHT SHAME..YU BUNCH OD WHITEWASH WALLS AND TRASH..READ YR REPLIES AND JUDGE WHO YOU FOOLING.NO SILLY POOR SEEKING SALVATION WILL BE ATTRACTED TO THIS ORTHODOX GREASECAN SIGHT.SHUT IT DOWN .ITS POLLUTES THE OF THE WEAK..NON FORGIVING,DICTATOR RACIST ,PROPAGANDA NON AFFECTIONATE SELF RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE ,DOMINATED BY THEIR PORK BARREL RELIGION WHO ORIENTAL ORTHODOX REJECT IN THE EARLY COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON.

You are temporarily put on moderation for you ad hominems attacks against the board members and starting a polemical EO vs OO discussion in the public fora until the final decision will be made. All your posts will have to be approved by the moderators before publishing - MK.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 02:57:45 PM by Michał Kalina »

Logged

Behold Philistia and Tyre,with Ethiopia ,this MAN was born there. And of Zion it shall be said ,this MAN and that MAN was born in HER!!psalm 87

you all can lock down this RACIST SHOP..NOT TOLERATED IN USA OR ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY..Orthodox racist..not christians..CHRISTIANITY BASED ON GOOD SAMARATAN IS LACKING IN YR EYES.ORIENTAL ORTHODOX CHURCH separate from you PAGAN eastern orthodox long time and we should not bein same BED.SO THATS WHY YOU FIGHT PPL OF COLOUR AND THEIR SYMPATHIZERS..GO wash yr all self in cleansing water.Dont ant one of you pretend yr christians and you cannot save souls.YR FATHER satan got you RASCIST LOW DOWN INHUMANE SWORTHLESS DEMONIC PEOPLE.HOW DISGUSTING YOU ALL ARE.WHEN I GO TO YR FORUM IS LIKE DREAMING NIGHTMARES OF MOVIES ABOUT HELL.OUR AFRICAN ZION WILL STAND ALONE UNTIL JAH JUDGES YOU ALL.REPENT THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND WICKED MEN.CHRIST NEVER SUPPORT GAYS OR ABORTION.YOU DIRTY FALSE CHRISTIANS..GO COVER YR SHAME AND GET KNOWLEDGE OF LOVE AND HOW TO SAVE SOULS AND HELP HOMELESS NIGGERS WHO YU ALL MESS UP..ITS A DOWN RIGHT SHAME..YU BUNCH OD WHITEWASH WALLS AND TRASH..READ YR REPLIES AND JUDGE WHO YOU FOOLING.NO SILLY POOR SEEKING SALVATION WILL BE ATTRACTED TO THIS ORTHODOX GREASECAN SIGHT.SHUT IT DOWN .ITS POLLUTES THE OF THE WEAK..NON FORGIVING,DICTATOR RACIST ,PROPAGANDA NON AFFECTIONATE SELF RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE ,DOMINATED BY THEIR PORK BARREL RELIGION WHO ORIENTAL ORTHODOX REJECT IN THE EARLY COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON.

You are temporarily put on moderation for you ad hominems attacks against the board members and starting a polemical EO vs OO discussion in the public fora until the final decision will be made. All your posts will have to be approved by the moderators before publishing - MK.

1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7

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Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.—St. Isaac of Syria

PS. the others using Kibre negast which is not a cannonical book of the church and also the rastafarian commentary of it which totaly distorts its usage of scriptural reference to fit thier fetish of an Earthly Utopia, and referenses of some material between the Zagewe Dynasty and the Axumite one which Ethiopians already know to be the political propaganda between two house of royalities , here taken out of context to make it a matter of Faith, is all in the mind of the Rastafarian Monarchists who consistently miss out on the reality of Ethiopian History and the present day plight of the people.

I am not even gonna bother with adressing that rubbish!

In Christ,Hiwot.

The Kibre Negest is not a book of the biblical canon, but is, it seems to me, part of these books considered as worthy to be read. Now, I don't think it means all the books below are to be read without being tested, as if their contents were somehow infaillible, but you should notice that the Kibre Negest was more than considered/venerated in Ethiopia during centuries, it is a fact, until these recent times when the book has begun to be largely questioned by people of your opinion. This is why I spoke of a "blatant compromise", or rather, contradiction.

Quote

But books, which should be considered for higher education and could be prepared carefully in order to suit modern thinking, are the following:

1. Theological books such as the following

- Haymanote Abew or the Faith of the Fathers in which other writings of the Apostolic Fathers and also of the Eastern Orthodox Church fathers are to be found.- Works of St. Cyril and many other writers.- The exegesis of the letter to the Hebrews by St. John Chrysostom.- The pastoral work of St. John Chrysostom.- Severious of Asmunage – a collection of twelve exegetical works, which prove the teaching concerning God.- A book that proves the existence of God Hilawae – Melekote- The book of Hawi, which proves the teaching concerning God.- Book of the mystery by Abba Georgis containing arguments and evidence about the mysteries.- Religious documentary book by Jacob of Elbaredia.- The true faith (written during the reign of Zera Yacob)- The five pillars of the Sacraments (as Catechism).

M E I L A D

2. Books that have the orders of the church

- The liturgical book with the 14 Anaphora- Ghitsacwa –Lectionaries or a list of annual reading of the scriptures during the liturgical service and other prayer hours.- The book of the Sacrament of Matrimony (Metsehafe Teklil)- The book of Baptism- The book of Ordination- The book of Covenant- The prayer book for the dead- The prayer book of the Incense- The book of Canon- The prayer book of purification

3. Books on Church administration and on counseling

- A big book on the Synod of the Apostles in four parts- The Didache and Abthulis- The book on the Synod of Nicea- The book on the Synod of Galatia- The book on the Synod of Antioch- The book on the Synod of Lethokia- The book on the Synod of Kerthica- The book on the Synod of Esrskousia- The book on the Synod of Srethia- The book of Fetha Negast- Spiritual Medicine (Fewse Menfsawi)- Exegesis on the meeting of clergy (Tikbe Kahenat)

4. Scared books

Most of these books are written in sections or parts for bindings, these are

- The old & The New Testaments- The Books of the scholars of the Church- Metsehafe Menequsat (book of the Monks)

- Book of Abushakir- Sid, the Son of Batrik- Mark son of Kenbar- Leader of Blind – by Demetros- Mathematics concerning calendar by the Monastery of Bizen

7. Historical Books

- First writing on Zion- Biography (Gedle) of Lalibela- History of the Kings of Axum- History of the Kings of Zagwe- On the treasure of the kings- On the honor of the Kings- Tefut- Biography (Gedle) of Tekla Haimanot- George the son of Amid- History of Alexander- Works of the brothers – Part II- Books on preaching

8. Compositions (works) on the virgins (celibates)

- Writings (compositions) on the woman who anointed Jesus- Compositions (writings) on the Samaritan woman- Writings on the birth of Christ- Writings on Epiphany- Writings on the Resurrection etc.

9. Writings that describe the biography of the martyrs

Biography and works of St. George“ “ “ St. Kopnious“ “ “ St. Irenaeus“ “ “ St. Gelwdewos“ “ “ Forty soldiers of Heaven

- Books on nature and science Part II and I- Aximaros- Phisalgos on animals and others

13. Books, which show writings of compositions

- The composition or writing of one of the criminals (outlaws), who was hanged with Jesus- On the Miracles of St. Mary and many other apocryphal books are to be found.

14. Ancient grammatical books

There are very many grammatical books written by different people and found at different places in the world. The above noted are but a very few examples from among the different books numbered by the thousands that the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido Church has. In the past, at present and even in the future either in the church or at the schools what the church uses for educational services was and will not be outside of these books.

My Rastafarian commentary of it which totally distorts its usage of scriptural reference you say?

Actually I was just saying what this book says. Show me my distortion please. If you disagree with the passage of the Kibre Negest which I quoted, and if you also disagree with my commentary on the spiritual Zion in the form of a spiritual pearl dwelling within the Tabot made by Moses, dwelling within the Tabot but above the things therein, then it means you do not really disagree with me, but with what this book says.

And, Can you deny the role of St. Tekle Haymanot in the ascension of Yekuno Amlak, a Solomonic, on the throne? After all, to my knowledge the Zagwes were Christians, so Why should St. Tekle Haymanot (one of the major Saints of Ethiopia) play an active role in the restoration of the Solomonic house, at the expense of the Zagwes, if it was not considered important at that time that a biological descendant of David be on the throne of Ethiopia? Do you insinuate that the passage I quoted from the article (concerning St. Tekle..) does not say something factual?

In the preface of the Kibre Negest, translated by E.A. Wallis Budge, Mr. Budge also says: "At lenght (Ie. after the approximative 330yrs of rule of the Zagwes) there appeared a member of the Solomonic line called Yekuno Amlak (1270-85) in Shoa, and with the help of the great Saint Tekle Haymanot he expelled the Zagwes and became "King of the Kings of Ethiopia". In return for this help of the Saint, Yekuno Amlak agreed to give to the Church one-third of the revenues of his kingdom, and his successors have, on the whole, followed his example."

The kingdom of God is in our midst now, within us, among us; and the kingdom of heaven is coming in the next age, following the glorious Parousia of our Lord Jesus Christ and the resurrection [of the flesh]. There is the Head, Christ, and there are the members, the Christians. I simply aknowledge a certain high and particular role/function/position of these Ethiopian Solomonic Kings in the Old, as well as in these times of New Testament era.

I do not understand everything in the Kibre Negest, and I confessed it in another topic. There are lots of things in it which I need to clarify, things unclear to my mind, yet I think I have to accept the essence of its message, even though I do not currently seize all its mysteries. Maybe am I wrong. Maybe not.

In the colophon of the book, the compiler, "Isaac (Yesehaq) the Poor" as he calls himself, says:

'''In the Arabic text it is said: "We have translated this book into Arabic from a Coptic manuscript belonging to the throne of Mark the Evangelist, the teacher, the Father of us all. We have translated it in the four hundred and ninth year of mercy in the country of Ethiopia, in the days of Gebre Maskal the King, who is called Lalibela, in the days of Abba Giyorgis, the good bishop." And God neglected to have it translated and interpreted into the speech of Abyssinia. And when I had pondered this, Why did not Abalez (?) and Abalfarog (?) who translated the book [into Arabic] translate it [into the speech of Abyssinia]? I said this: It went out in the days of the Zagwes, and they did not translate it because this book says: Those who reign not being Israelites are transgressors of the Law. Had they been of the kingdom of Israel they would have translated it. And it was found in Nazret (Nazareth?).'''

Don't you think, Hiwot, that many of your generation and the generation just before you, have thrown the baby out with the bathwater? You will deny, but I think so. You even suggested by saying "...it is absolutely not the return of the Monarchy but the establishment of the Federal Democratic Government which upholds the Rule of Law!" that you are not at all interested for even welcoming constitutional monarchy, a crowned republic. Well, okay .