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OKTAR BABUNA: Good evening, viewers. We are continuing with our broadcast. Our Hodja has guests. Guests from America, from Colorado. They are also freemasons, our friends. A short while ago they said it was a great honor for them to come here. Please go on.

ADNAN OKTAR:But you translate first. Repeat what you said.

OKTAR BABUNA:You are our guests are from Colorado, United States, freemason guests. You are very welcome. We are honored to have you here in Turkey, and the Turkish Republic is listening to you right now.

GUESTS:Thank you.

ADNAN OKTAR: The fact that you believe in Allah is a great source of joy for us. But I shall also pray that other freemasons, French freemasons and others, will believe in the existence and oneness of Allah, and I will strive to that end. Together we will tell them of the insoluble dilemmas facing Darwinism and materialism and of the invalidity of those ideas. Thus, insha’Allah, they will also believe in the oneness of Allah. We will thus strive for truth and right and beauty to rule the world, insha’Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR: A good and rational freemason will always seek the truth and right. I do not therefore think that a freemason could espouse a primitive theory such as Darwinism and materialism, one that has collapsed in all respects. Because not even a protein can come into being by chance. That is impossible, zero probability. There are no transitional fossils. If there were any transitional fossils, I would say so. But there is not a single transitional fossil of the kind Darwinists speak of. But there are more than 300 million fossils that prove Creation. The existence of Allah and Creation are therefore manifest truths.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, let us now give our guests an opportunity to speak. Let us start with this gentleman.

ADNAN OKTAR:Maybe you could introduce yourselves by name first.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: Timothy Hogan.

ROGER TIGNER:Roger Tigner.

KARL HINKLE: Karl Hinkle.

CLIFF PORTER: CliffPorter.

ADNAN OKTAR: Let us start with you. Briefly, what do you think about these views of mine? Let us hear from you what freemasonry thinks about Allah.

TIMOTHY HOGAN: As freemasons belief in God or Allah is in an essential requirement. We will not bring somebody in unless they believe in God and we require them to have that belief in order to stay affiliated with us.

ADNAN OKTAR: Excellent, so we believe in one, unborn and Omnipotent Allah Who rules all things, Who pervades the entire universe. It is a good thing that you also believe that.

ROGER TIGNER: Our belief in God is what makes us able to have the brotherhood because we know that there is a morality within those that we accept within our group. The problem is that we know that there are people who call themselves freemasons but who are not freemasons. They do not believe in the basic tenets of our organization, just like they can say they are believers of the Book but they are not.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, Allah. Let us hear this gentleman’s views.

KARL HINKLE:Thank you. I think it is important to understand that freemasonry is not a religion. Freemasonry rather serves as an opportunity for men of a variety of religions to gather together and share brotherhood. So the fraternity takes no particular position regarding any religious dogma only that we all believe in God. We agree there is One God. We each worship Him in our own way and in that way freemasonry offers man of a variety of traditions to unite together in peace.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, that is possible. There are Jews and Christians and Muslims in Istanbul. But they all believe in the One Allah. They all believe in Allah, the Omnipotent and Almighty. But things like belief in the trinity or ascribing equals to Allah are wrong.

ADNAN OKTAR: It is vitally important, crucial, to believe in one Allah. But of course we must respect other ideas, meaning one must respect people who do not believe, as well as believers. A democratic attitude toward all views and ideas is most important.

ADNAN OKTAR: Go ahead. You say something, too.

CLIFF PORTER: Well, I will speak too; the fact is that masons, legitimate freemasons take an oath not to allow certain individuals into freemasonry and those include atheists. So there are no legitimate atheist freemasons, period. They do not exist. They are not a legitimate freemason if they are an atheist. The work of freemasonry to build a moral philosophy and foundation for men would be useless to an atheist, and the oath of an atheist would not be binding in a Masonic lodge, because our oath really is to our own personal conduct in the face of God, not to any person or persons. So I think that would be what I would say, too. I think you will find it interesting too, in the studies that I have done of Adnan Oktar when I learnt -you know- and began to read; we likewise call each other brother; we often refer to the Deity as the Great Creator or the Artificer of the Universe, the Architect of the Universe. In so finding unity, two things that we could certainly agree on, your philosophies would agree within freemasonry are the existence of One, ever loving God, and that to adore your Great Creator is something that needs to occur, in order to for an appreciation of yourself and for your life to occur.

ADNAN OKTAR: I am delighted to be speaking with you in this way. Because it would be undemocratic not to make contact and hold discussions with you. You are one school from the many schools of ideas in the world. All right, but according to my belief, Islam will soon rule the whole world as the one faith. And that dominion will be confirmed with the return of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). We are awaiting the coming of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). People will see in the next 10 years that what I am saying is not an utopia, not a fantasy. What I am stating is very clearly and true. The Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will appear. From another dimension after 2000 years, from the dimension to which Allah transported him, he will be brought back to the dimension of our world and will come as the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) in his original form. He will be the true Prophet Jesus (pbuh). The person who comes will be the same Prophet Jesus (pbuh) with the same clothes, flesh, bones, beard and hair. Christianity will experience great joy and fervor with his coming. And you will see they all become Muslims. The Ark of the Covenant constructed in the time of the Prophet Moses (pbuh) and that existed in the time of the Prophet Solomon (pbuh) will be discovered in Lake Tiberias (Sea of Galilee)and in a cave in Hatay (Antioch) It will be found in two parts, I mean the ark will be found in one place, and the contents of it will be found elsewhere. The originals of the Torah and the Gospel revealed to the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will be found. See, I am stating this explicitly. These things are happening and will happen. I said that Noah’s Ark would be found on Mount Agri, that timber components from it would be found. Now the whole boat has been found on Mount Agri and nobody is now saying anything. It is quite clear. In the same way the things I have said will come true, so will what I say in the future. I think freemasonry will have a great role in the coming of the global dominion of Islam. That is my belief, of course.

ADNAN OKTAR: This will happen; there will be a new world, and democracy, peace, brotherhood, love, peace, social justice, art and science will reach the highest levels. We are living in a time known as the Golden Age. This will start as of 2012. The coming about of these things, one by one, will of course strengthen people’s views. It will all become even clearer. Furthermore, the Day of Reckoning is not far off. I expect the Day of Reckoning around 2120. Those who live that long will see that what I am saying is true, insha’Allah. I loathe reactionism and bigotry. I strive against them, and it is of course an ugly thing to remain wedded to that way of thinking, in other words bigotry. It is a terrible think to have a mindset that would do away with art, science and beauty. Every rational person must struggle against it. But in doing so, I regard it as very important to attach pride of place to humanity and love, friendship and brotherhood.

CLIFF PORTER:Well, we hardly disagree with that.

ADNAN OKTAR:Masha’Allah. In that sense, in terms of freedom of opinion and ideas, their perspectives, I think that masons are on the right path in seeking beauty, and I also believe they are high-quality and select people. I therefore think they will successfully perform important duties regarding the global prevalence of Islam.

ADNAN OKTAR:But despite all these, this period is a very brief one; the time known as the Golden Age is very short. True life will come in the Hereafter, of course, insha’Allah, in Paradise.

ADNAN OKTAR:The good thing about what I am saying is that it will all be proved; people will definitely see the truth of it. For example, there are certain things that are just left up to people to believe. Sometimes they happen, and sometimes not. But people still place their faith in Allah, and believe in any case. But these things I am saying will certainly take place, and you and all mankind will see them. Those of us who live long enough will all see them, insha’Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:As you know, Hazrat Khidr (pbuh) referred to in the Qur’an was a stone mason.

TIMOTHY HOGAN:Yes, we know.

ADNAN OKTAR: That was one side of him. In one respect he was a stone mason. He also knew many secrets, many profound secrets. And he was also very discreet.

Insha’Allah. But Allah of course gave him this duty for the good of mankind. As you know, the masons are also awaiting Adonai in the End Times. Masons believe that Adon or Adonai will return in the End Times. As you know, they slew Hiram Abiff there, according to masonic legend. But they believe that Adon, Adonai, will subsequently return. This is again a reference to the system of the Mahdi, or so I personally believe. It has an aspect that refers to the return of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh).

ADNAN OKTAR:Of course there are things here that people can see with their own eyes and touch with their own hands. I am saying these beforehand. Everything I have said up to now has come about, to the letter. For example, the stopping of the waters of the Euphrates, the invasion of Iraq and the occupation of Afghanistan, lunar and solar eclipses at 15-day intervals and all the rest. I revealed them beforehand, and they all happened. This is the evidence revealed by our Prophet (May Allah bless him and grant him peace) and it all came about. Then there are later events. I said there would be an economic crisis. And that happened. I said it would last 7 years, and it is still going on. Nobody can halt the economic crisis now. It will last for 7 years. These things are proof confirming what I say.

ADNAN OKTAR:These proofs I have cited are also evidence concerning the return to earth of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). Insha’Allah we will see them all together. The Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will come to the masonic lodges, insha’Allah. He will embrace the freemasons there. He will come to the lodges and embrace you. Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will also come to the masonic lodges and embrace you. The world will be one, all brothers. We will enter the Golden Age and there will be a festival air, an air of rejoicing, insha’Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:The aim of freemasonry is brotherhood, and the happiness of man. And the aim of religion, of Islam, is also brotherhood, happiness and joy. It is for them to be good people. That is Allah’s aim. That is the aim of the life of Paradise. So Islam is already expressing the very loftiest principles of freemasonry.

In addition, the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) are also the masters of all freemasons. All freemasonry will be devoted to them, in other words. Therefore he is the Grand Master and above them all. The might and power of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh). Because it is the highest of freemasonry’s aims.

CLIFF PORTER:I’m going to disagree,I’m going have to disagree, just real quick, only because I want… I mean, I want to go on record, since we are here to say, that I don’t think that is accurate in the way that freemasonry approaches it. Masonry teaches that each man should guide his own actions. We report to no central leader and Christian masons look to Jesus for their moral guide and their faith. Muslim masons look to Allah or the Prophet and a Jewish mason may refer to Adonai. But each is simply encouraged to return to that sanctuary, which best increases his faith in our Creator. And there study His Book of Sacred Law and pray and live a faithful life. But to say that, we have a single leader in the administrative sense, would not be accurate. In the philosophical sense, all men are guided by God.

ADNAN OKTAR:Of course, the power superior to everyone is Allah. See, there is a prime minister in Turkey. We choose the prime minister and follow him. There is the Obama administration in America. And there are other leaders elsewhere. The presence of a leader is the law of Allah. A community will always have a leader. There will always be a leader over freemasonry, and a leader over Muslims. The whole world will also have a leader. There is nothing surprising about that. But a leader for Allah, in the name of Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:This leadership will also aim for love, affection, compassion, friendship and justice. It will not be an aggressive, repressive leadership. It will not be based on force and compulsion. It will lead with love. Masons themselves will want it. The public will want it, the whole world will want it. That is what we believe according to the Qur’an; when the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) comes, Islam will rule the whole world. But not in the oppressive, dominating way that people imagine. Rather with love, friendship, art, science and the concepts of freedom and justice. In other words, since it is based on love, people will accept it with love, us and everyone else. Force and oppression are horrible. Threats and aggression are horrible. War and hostility are horrible. Violence and terror are horrible. If people have a leader they love and regard as great, he will be instrumental for great joy. As long as he is good, very, very good. You have your beloved Grand Master you take as your own leader.

TIMOTHY HOGAN:Yes we try to help build leaders to build a better world, a more compassionate world, a world with art and sciences appreciated and one where human beings are fulfilling their highest potential, which is ultimately a gift from God.

ADNAN OKTAR: That is most excellent. Even the thought of it is most perfect compared to those who do nothing at all. What you are describing are things lying at the heart of Islam.

KARL HINKLE: You mentioned, if I may comment, you mentioned earlier, your belief that the return of Jesus, the unification of the world will occur and we will all embrace one another as brothers. I prefer not to speak to the particular prediction as a freemason. I prefer to leave each man’s belief to himself. But I don’t think we need to wait until then to embrace one another as brothers. I think we can embrace one another as brothers now.

ADNAN OKTAR:This is most excellent, of course. That is what we are also striving for. It is our aim, too. To prepare the way before the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) comes, to strengthen brotherhood, to eliminate violence and terror, to establish freedom of ideas, to strengthen democracy, to think humanely and act out of love. These things are very important.

ADNAN OKTAR:In that case our discussions will go on. This is just the beginning. We will have wider-ranging talks, insha’Allah. I think the freemasons will play a major role in the global dominion of beauty, friendship, brotherhood and unity, in the global dominion of Islam. Let us establish a full alliance in the struggle against Darwinism and materialism. Let us hold conferences in masonic lodges. Let us hold talks. It will be very useful. I think it will be a very good thing. Of course there may be those holding contrasting views. We will talk to and discuss matters with them, and set the true facts out, and that will be even better. Yes, just so long as we behave as friends and brothers and have a spirit of democracy.

ADNAN OKTAR:Let us put an end to our discussion here for today. Let us have a break and then carry on, insha’Allah.