Posts Tagged ‘community college’

Not long ago, the Duke Trinity Class of 2006 held its 10-year reunion. It’s hard to believe it’s been that long since I graduated. I wasn’t able to attend the event, since I was working abroad, but I thought it was a good opportunity to reflect on where life has taken me in this decade, and particularly on the ROI of my Duke education.

So where am I, ten years on? Here’s a breakdown of what I invested in my Duke degree, and what I earned as a result of it.

Fourth lab job (the only research position I was ever able to find after graduating): $19,829 (8 / 12 months * $29,744 annual salary)

Total pre-tax income earned: $50,109

Approximate after-tax income, assuming 20% tax: $40,087

Total ROI (after-tax income minus cost of education): -$159,913

ROI per year: -$39,978 (-$159,913 / 4 years in industry)

That’s one hell of a figure, and sadly, it’s unlikely it will ever change. Mind you, these are not my total earnings over that period, but I’ve excluded jobs which had nothing to do with my degree, like waiting tables and delivering pizzas. In fact, pizza delivery paid about as much as my highest-paying lab position, and constituted a very large part of my income for a couple of years.

Fortunately, I decided to change industries back in 2010, following an extended bout of unemployment. I went back to school, got a 2-year Associate’s Degree in Computer science from a community college, and I now work as a software consultant. Here’s what my ROI looks like for my second degree:

Educational investment: approx. $5000 (2 years * $2500 / year)

First programming job: $6,667 (2 / 12 months * $40,000 / year)

Second job: $23,025 (6 / 12 months * $46,050 / year)

Third job (current job): $400,000 (4 years * approx. $100,000 / year)

Total income earned (pre-tax): $429,692

Approx. after-tax income, assuming 30% tax: $300,784

Total ROI (after-tax income minus cost of education): +$295,784

ROI per year: +$59,156 ($295,784 / 5 years in industry thus far).

Now, that’s more like it.

As of now, I’ve spent roughly equal amounts of time working as a genetics researcher and a software developer. In the research industry, I had the advantage of getting started professionally while I was still an undergrad, and had three summer jobs under my belt by the time I graduated from Duke. At the time, I figured this would ensure I’d land a good job post-graduation, but in reality, it did little for my employment opportunities. From 2006, when I graduated, to 2010, when I formally abandoned the research industry, I spent most of my time unemployed, underemployed, and working side jobs (like pizza delivery) to supplement my income.

In computer science, by contrast, I attended a school with little name recognition, and didn’t have the benefit of summer jobs to pad my resume before graduating. I also had only a 2-year degree in CS, compared to a 4-year degree in biology. I figured I’d be up against some serious challenges, and I was fully expecting that I’d need to re-enroll to finish a second bachelor’s degree in CS before I’d find a decent position. Fortunately, this was a non-issue: I was hired straightaway, and although the first couple jobs were fairly short-lived and didn’t pay particularly well, I soon landed a position at a Silicon Valley firm with high pay scales, good benefits, and ample job security, and I’ve remained there to this day.

So what’s to take away from all this? That what matters most is what you study, not where you study it. I realize this is hardly a new message on this blog, but it helps to put some hard figures on the table as proof of what works and what doesn’t. For me, at least, a minimal investment in the right field paid for itself many times over, while a much larger investment in the wrong field never paid off, and ten years on, still remains a huge loss.

As I see it, I’m not only $160,000 poorer for having attended a private university; I’ve actually lost an additional $100,000 per year by not getting into the right industry earlier on. In hind sight, had I studied CS at a state school as my first degree, I not only would have reduced my educational costs by at least $150,000, but I would also would have entered into the software industry in 2006, rather than 2011. Had I done that, I’d probably be around $600K wealthier, and I wouldn’t have the trail of bitter memories, either.

Then again, what’s done is done. Today, I’m grateful that I’ve finally found a good line of work, but still, no thanks to my private education.

An Ivy grad wrote in, asking for advice after not finding a satisfying job that fit with his degree. The first part of the email thread is as follows. This is part of a two-part post; the second part can be read here.

“Hey Clayton,

Thank you for writing that blog. I went through a similar period of doubt and depression and feelings of worthlessness a few years back after I finished my engineering degree at an ivy league school (arguably not the best place for an engineering degree) and couldn’t find employment.

So I figured more education would get me going. After 60k put back into the ivy league for a Master’s, I can say I’m fully employed. But I still feel a sense of worthlessness and still have my debt clinging on to me like a ball and chain.

I sit at a desk all day and punch numbers away in a spreadsheet. Not even doing any fancy cool stuff with it, just punching it in and sending it off. At first I was so insulted that I didn’t even get 50k salary, but now I realize that it’s probably way more than what someone doing these mundane tasks should be paid.

I probably sound like I’m complaining, which I am to some extent. I envisioned a much more meaningful and exciting future. Ah well.

Which brings me to my next point, the inspiration your blog set off in me.

Yes, I have a job and I’m grateful I get a steady paycheck, but it doesn’t do away with the fact that this desk job and its menial tasks are making me feel more empty than ever before.

I spent a couple of weeks learning programming about 2-3 hours/day and challenging myself. I spent a week or two reading (very enthusiastically) about how computer hardware works.

I want to be where you’re at now. I’m looking at a community college for computer science classes and going from there in the hopes that I’d be able to make a good living (six figures isn’t necessary) while being able to travel and having freedom. I feel that software engineering and development will allow me that freedom. I might as well do it soon, while I’m 24, rather than later when I’ll have much more responsibility.

Do you think this is a good idea? I’m just having a lot of trouble accepting that I’m braindead at this job, and an investment now in computer science and programming will pay off tremendously in the end, I would hope.

All advice appreciated!

Best,

[redacted]”

My response:

“Hi [redacted],

Thanks for writing in, and I’m glad the blog resonates with your experiences.

As for your computer science idea, I say go for it. It’s still a vibrant industry with a lot of demand and a lot of high-paying positions that companies struggle to fill. I still get daily emails from recruiters asking if I’d be interested in a new position. If you have an interest in programming, then I don’t think you’ll regret making the change. And having another engineering degree certainly can’t hurt your prospects, either.

If your current job is unfulfilling, then don’t force yourself to keep doing it. Software development is a pretty safe bet so I wouldn’t be worried about losing out financially if you change careers. Depending on where you live, you can probably expect to make $40-60K in an entry-level job, and if you’re motivated and do good work, you can probably expect to break $100K within 2-3 years (virtually anything with “senior” or “architect” in the title will be six figures plus bonus and other benefits). And for future reference, don’t be afraid to jump ship if a better opportunity presents itself – there is surprisingly high turnover in the software industry.

A community college is definitely the most cost-efficient way to get a degree, and I’d venture to say you’ll be able to find a job after getting an associate’s degree in CS, especially since you’ve already got a master’s in something else. If you can continue working in your current position while going back to school, then that may ease the transition; I was mostly unemployed when I re-enrolled and it was a challenge not having much money to spare.

If you’re interested in traveling with work, then the key word is consulting (or consultant). The basic principle of consulting firms is that they provide specialized expertise which isn’t easy learn on the fly, making it impractical to recruit new people locally for new projects. Instead, consulting firms train their staff to be experts in a specific subject area, then fly them to clients around the country (or globe) as temporary contractors, which is costly for clients but often worthwhile for projects that don’t last that long. This is what I do, and it’s nice in the sense that you can continue living wherever you are and travel back and forth to client sites, rather than having to relocate permanently (although you can volunteer to relocate as well). On the flip side, weekly travel can become quite tiring and tedious; some of my coworkers say they feel like they’re living at the airport. If you don’t see yourself as a road warrior but you’re still interested in seeing other parts of the country, you can certainly apply for jobs nationwide and express your willingness to relocate in your application. Many companies recruit nationally, since they may not be able to find enough local talent, and I get emails from recruiters in all parts of the US. Bear in mind that (from what I’ve observed, at least) most companies will expect you to relocate on your own tab, but some do offer reimbursement for relocation expenses (as a taxable benefit).

If you’re looking to live abroad (highly recommended if you’ve not done it before), then I’d suggest looking at major consulting firms as a starting point (Accenture, Ernst & Young, etc.) or else companies with a global market presence (e.g. SAP, IBM, or my company, Guidewire). If you speak another language, that’s helpful as well. In my case, I was surprised when my company offered to send me overseas almost immediately after I joined. As it turned out, many of the older consultants with families didn’t want to move that far away, let alone uproot the wife and kids, so the company had difficulty filling openings with foreign clients. But for me, it was the perfect opportunity, and since the flights, work visas, etc. are all reimbursed as business expenses, I’ve been able to move around without having to make huge financial sacrifices. And thanks to all this business travel, I’ve racked up tons of frequent flyer miles and hotel points at no cost to myself. Over the course of 3.5 years, I’ve lived in four foreign countries (Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, and currently, Great Britain), and so far, I haven’t looked back.

Anyway, I hope this info is helpful to you. Don’t hesitate to reach out if you have any other questions.