July 12, 2011

She's calling Michele Bachmann "a freaking dwarf." (Is it not politically incorrect to call a short person a "dwarf"? Isn't that like calling a person with a dark tan the n-word?) Anyway, I ran across that this morning because I was trying to find out how tall Michele Bachmann is. She's 5'2".

Rep. Michele Bachmann, who is now seeking the Republication presidential nomination, had claimed in 2005 that she was almost abducted by two women in a bathroom, according to The Daily Beast.

The pair consisted of a lesbian and an ex-nun.

At the time of the alleged attempted kidnapping, Bachmann was a state senator from Minnesota and had already started to campaign against LGBT rights. She had previously been caught hiding in the bushes of a gay rights event.

Caught hiding in the bushes of a gay rights event? All right, this article — in The Advocate — makes no pretense of being unbiased. Let's switch over to the Daily Beast article whence these factoids were extracted. Oh! It's Michelle Goldberg. She doesn't provide a link to get us to the root of the "bushes" story, but let's not get distracted. Let's focus, for now, on the alleged kidnapping. Goldberg writes:

A few dozen people showed up at the town hall for the April 9 [2005] event, and Bachmann greeted them warmly. But when, during the question and answer session, the topic turned to gay marriage, Bachmann ended the meeting 20 minutes early and rushed to the bathroom.

Causation or correlation? What do you think?

When a politician ends a meeting 20 minutes early and rushes to the bathroom, what do you think is more likely?

Hoping to speak to her, [Pamela] Arnold and another middle-aged woman, a former nun, followed her. As Bachmann washed her hands and Arnold looked on, the ex-nun tried to talk to her about theology. Suddenly, after less than a minute, Bachmann let out a shriek. "Help!" she screamed. "Help! I'm being held against my will!"

Arnold, who is just over 5 feet tall, was stunned, and hurried to open the door. Bachmann bolted out and fled, crying, to an SUV outside. Then she called the police, saying, according to the police report, that she was "absolutely terrified and has never been that terrorized before as she had no idea what those two women were going to do to her." The Washington County attorney, however, declined to press charges, writing in a memo, "It seems clear from the statements given by both women that they simply wanted to discuss certain issues further with Ms. Bachmann."

From the police report:

BACHMAN [sic] STATED THAT WHEN SHE WAS GETTING READY TO LEAVE SHE WENT TO THE RESTROOM. SENATOR BACHMAN STATED THAT WHEN SHE WAS TRYING TO LEAVE THE RESTROOM, 2 WOMEN BLOCKED IN AND TOLD HER THEY WANTED TO CONTINUE TALKING. SEN BACHMAN STATED SHE WAS AFRAID AND SCREAMED FOR HELP. THE 2 WOMEN LET HER LEAVE THE RESTROOM WHEN SHE SCREAMED. THE WOMEN ARE BELIEVED TO BE W/ THE GLBT GROUP.

(Bachmann was a state senator at that time.) Following a public figure into the bathroom and pressing her with questions in that environment is bad etiquette, even if you are calm and friendly, but hostile questions and blocking the exit are completely unacceptable and threatening. Trapping someone in a room is false imprisonment, traditionally, and here's the Minnesota criminal statute: "Whoever, knowingly lacking lawful authority to do so, intentionally confines or restrains... [a] person without the person's consent, is guilty of false imprisonment...." You can go to prison for 3 years for that. I don't know the details underlying the decision not to prosecute.

Do Goldberg and The Advocate think that women are inherently so weak that you're hysterical to get scared when they confine/restrain you without your consent? Are women, especially short women, given special immunity to exercise physical intimidation? We're told that Arnold is "is just over 5 feet tall," but not that Michele Bachmann herself is tiny. That fact is omitted when the aim is to portray Michele Bachmann as homophobic, even as it is used gratuitously to mock her as "a freaking dwarf." How tall was the "ex-nun"? I'm not seeing that information. But we do get to know that she was an ex-nun, as if that's supposed to make her sound benign.

There's a big effort right now to propagate the meme that Michele Bachmann is a raging homophobe. I'm going to monitor that effort for you. I'm not a Bachmann partisan, as regular readers know. I've supported gay rights since long before I started this blog in 2004, and I am not a social conservative. This issue falls right into my zone as a blogger because: 1. I'm observing the 2012 campaign with cruel neutrality as a political independent, 2. I care about consistency in the way women are perceived and described, 3. I think opposition to some gay rights issues should not be conflated with hating or wanting to hurt gay people, and 4. The "Bachmann homophobia" issue is rife with the kind of lying and unfair reporting that I am on a mission to expose.

155 comments:

Anyway, I ran across that this morning because I was trying to find out how tall Michele Bachmann is. She's 5'2".

I honestly had no idea she was that short. I watched the first "stealth" debate and don't remember that fact jumping out at me (granted, I was doing the dishes whilst listening, but still). Can a woman get away with looking presidential while being 5'2"? Regardless of competence, I believe society would hold that a man cannot. It's unfortunate, but we do ascribe a lot of value to a man's height and penalize them for being short.

I realize the same doesn't hold true for women in general, but this woman is pursuing a gig that heretofore has only been held by men and she will undoubtedly be judged in that regard.

I don't really see what height has to do with anything. I'm average height for a woman (5'4), but thin and unathletic. An athletic, but much shorter woman could certainly physically threaten me; two even more so.

As for why they weren't charged, I assume that it was the sort of thing that would be very difficult to prove- they may have blocked the exit and tried to look intimidating, without actually meaning to (having intent) to hold her- the fact that they moved when she yelled supports this. But that doesn't make Ms. Bachmann wrong for yelling (in fact, it strengthens her reasons for doing so).

I've never understood the hysteria about therapy for homosexuals, when entered into voluntarily. I doubt that it works, but if a person wants to change something about themselves and pursue a possibly risky way of doing so, what would give me the right to tell them that they can't? As long as no one is being forced into it, it seems stupid to complain about.

I don't really like Michelle Bachmann as a presidential candidate; she's low on my list of the current candidates. But I keep finding myself defending her against these outright stupid criticisms, most of which are (as the critcisms against Palin) based around the fact that liberals simply cannot accept conservative women (they own women, who are not allowed to think for themselves). Thanks, Professor, for doing the legwork on this. Your last paragraph is right on.

I thought Bachmann was approached by two women. yes, it was two women. As in, not men.

More news to pierce the CONservative news blackout:

Allegations last week that News Corp. staff hacked into the phones of murdered schoolgirls and terror victims and paid police for stories prompted Murdoch to close the 168-year-old News of the World tabloid on which his U.K. media empire was founded. Politicians from all parties have called for his planned purchase of British Sky Broadcasting Group Plc to be scrapped and some question whether his company is fit to own a broadcasting license at all.

Having read the article linked as "accusations of homophobia" more thoroughly, I'm not sure, again, what the problem is. How does what their hidden cameras found contradict the quote that they gave from Mr. Bachmann (“if someone is interested in talking to us about their homosexuality, we are open to talking about that. But if someone comes in a homosexual and they want to stay homosexual, I don’t have a problem with that.” And that’s all anyone’s known about what happens to gay people at his clinics until now.) They seem perfectly consistent.

Undoubtedly the anti-gay theme/"meme" is a large part of what those attempts were to get background info on all of Bachmann's foster-children were (are?) all about. If none were (are?) gay and/or transgendered you can be ABSOLUTELY sure that Michele would have charges of "failure" to be "inclusive" thrown at her as well as the conclusion that she was, ipso facto, therefore anti-gay, in a NY second.

"Things got a little weird. In April 2005, when gay rights activists rallied in front of the state capitol in St. Paul, a local photographer captured Bachmann as she seemed to be peering through some bushes at the protesters. Bachmann and those with her said she was sitting down after standing for awhile in high heels. Around the same time, Bachmann filed a report with the Washington County Sheriff's Office in which she said that two women had accosted her in the ladies' room of a local community center after a meeting on the same-sex marriage amendment. As the anti-Bachmann bloggers began to track her closely, she removed her home address and telephone number from the state senate directory. She requested security protection."

A little googling also turned up this "Dump Bachmann" site. Even though they insist she was hiding, it's pretty obvious she wasn't, as one of her bodyguards is standing up, clearing visible, while she and another bodyguard apparently are sitting, facing away from the bushes and the protestors.

Good grief. Lefties will make up any old thing for their daily Two Minutes of Hate against a conservative woman.

Is there any independent corroboration of the assertion that Michelle Bachmann herself 'ended the meeting twenty minutes early'?This smells to me of an add-on and an attempt to pack in as many unfavorable things as possible.

So many dangers lurk in the bathroom for pols: do not take a wide stance, and never talk to lesbians who talk theology. The scream for help in the face of a gay person shows a no-nonsence approach and why I think Bachmann is ready to lead the Republican party in the fall election.

I think that you are wrong, Althouse, in thinking that you can limit the gay activists to sensible issues.

You should be seeing this in the attempt to suggest that Bachmann is some kind of nut because she's Christian.

The next step for the gay activists will (already is) an all-out attack on religious freedom.

The place where you're going wrong is thinking that this is a calm, reasonable intellectual issue.

It isn't. Nor should it be.

The law is particularly attractive to women because women love prescribing rules and enforcing them. You're confusing your self interest, which is your love of prescribing and enforcing rules, with the reality of the issues at hand.

These aren't intellectual issues. They are religious and moral issues.

So many dangers lurk in the bathroom for pols: do not take a wide stance, and never talk to lesbians who talk theology. The scream for help in the face of a gay person shows a no-nonsence approach and why I think Bachmann is ready to lead the Republican party in the fall election.

One can only hope you face the same tactics when you're in the bathroom, commie.

The thing to remember about commies is that they prescribe rules for the other side, not for themselves.

The "Bachmann homophobia" issue is rife with the kind of lying and unfair reporting that I am on a mission to expose

Why do you expect anything different from the left? Is this not just another example of the daily hatred from Democrats? Hatred ooozes out in everything they do.

This issue - tarring someone dishonestly - is long past disgusting.

Lefties will make up any old thing for their daily Two Minutes of Hate against a conservative woman.

I once asked a very left wing relative my age how she slept at night after being silent about her political cohorts daily dishonesty. Her exact words: "As long as the principle wins, the rest doesn't matter." I told her Stalin was very proud of her.

Seriously. Lefties and Democrats don't play by the same ethical rules regular folks do. Be very afraid for your children.

For Andy R, I think that one can oppose homosexual marriage and not necessarily be homophobic. On the other hand, if one is fully supportive of Goodridge v Department of Public Health, is one not automatically Islamophobic?

5' 2" tall is within one standard deviation of the mean for an American woman, but it's still pretty short. Executives tend to be taller than average and have good hair. It may be unfair, but her height is going to work against her.

We also don't know the fuller story. Was Bachmann receiving threatening letters or phone messages at this time?

Something put her on edge, and threatening notes or actions(like the sort Meadhouse experienced during the union protest season) can be very unnerving to people who have not received them before, or to people who get especially large amounts of or particularly dangerous sounding negative responses.

And it's clearly a protest tactic to try to force opponents to hear the apparent reason of the protesters. The small space of a bathroom would be an ideal gotcha place to, indeed, trap someone, thinking it a great protest victory, not an illegal act.

By the by, ex-nun doesn't sound at all benign to me, which is to Catholic theology what an ex-wife is to marriage.

She apparently wears heels. If she's 5'2" in stocking feet, she could be 5'5" to 5'6" in heels. A "normal" height for a woman.

And men like to see women wearing high heels.

And anyway, it doesn't necessarily matter. Tall women are not always perceived more favorably then short women. Michelle Obama is a case in point. For men it's different; short stature is a definite negative when it comes to leadership.

AlphaLiberal Spewed Scat:"They asked her questions she was trying to duck and she acted like a paranoid lunatic."

Bullshit, AlphaLiberal.

We know it's bullshit now, because you're on the scene conveniently to provide commentary. So we know this is an organized hit job, or you wouldn't be here commenting.

Bachman refused to be baited by a bunch of raging heterophobics and they attempted to corner Michlle and not let her leave the bathroom. They threatened her.

These raging heterophobes did in fact commit a crime in falsely imprisoning Ms. Bachmann but the police simply don't want to do their jobs because the police themselves are rabidly union and rabidly Democrat.

Republicans and Tea Party patriots need to destroy police unions and outlaw them forever by amending State Constitutions.

These corrupt unions cause police officers to FAIL TO DO THEIR JOBS and arrest criminals who are heterophobic unionized Democrats.

Well, you have to be schizophrenic to be writing this material for mongoloids.

All you learn is that Michele Bachmann, in person, is shorter than you anticipated. If Randi was trying out "laugh lines" ... they're the wrinkles on her face. Botox for now. Botox for later. And, her voice has a certain "neying" like a horse; quality.

But that's not my worry!

Bachmann is angling for a spot. This is to COUNTER-MOVE against Sarah Palin! Where all this does for Sarah Palin is gives her a shot as an independent. The stupid party has not improved since the minor elder Bush came in ... thinking he deserved to be president. 1980.

This time, because the big families refuse to let go of their powers ... we are seeing how the GOP is being ruined. Ruined by Karl Rove. Ruined by the two incompetent leaders in Congress. And, it's probably worse as you get inside this little country club ... And, see their antics.

So, Michele Bachmann being short ... as if that's a reason not to vote ... is rediculous. Proves the left has no arguments. And, on TV, they've lost any semblance of audience.

And, on the Internet, they bring us Professor Feinberg. And, I guess, not seen in this clip, Shepard Smith doing his owl immitation: WOO ?

Who, who, who cares?

Sarah will run as an Independent. The party label will be ONE NATION. And, Donald Trump will be her veep. At that point Michele Bachmann will look like a chicken whose head has been cut off! And, that will make her closer to being 3-feet-tall, I guess?

Ann, does this kind of rhetoric count as "hating or wanting to hurt gay people"?

Only if you’re some kind of Knucklehead, wouldn’t you say? Care to point out where there’s “hatred” or “hurt” to someone being gay? Looks like the expression of an opinion, of course you may see it differently. You’d be WRONG, but you could see it differently, Andy.

In first grade I had a senile nun as a teacher who would throw your books out of the third story window if you got something wrong. She would then get confused why you didn't have your book anymore. Eventually she would remember she threw them out the window and she would tell us to go get them. So we would all run down and get our books laying outside on the grass.

I was not terrified of her. I found it entertaining. Eventually she got retired about a month into the school year.

First, Randi Rhodes is a pig, and just the reason why the Right needs people like me, and Ace, and a few others, who don't exactly give a fig about decorum when it comes to taking these sleaze bags on. Even the good guys need assassins.

And, of course, it was a lesbian and an ex-nun - it couldn't be an ex-lesbian and a nun, or even a lesbian and a nun (what would they be doing together?) - but a lesbian and an ex-nun. I swear, these people stereotype themselves.

Caught hiding in the bushes of a gay rights event? All right, this article — in The Advocate — makes no pretense of being unbiased.

But that is the kind of thing they spread to get the rubes riled up. As I've said, there's not even the pretense of integrity. And Michelle Goldberg? Come on.

As far as the trapping of Bachmann, whose word are you going to take about what transpired in private? The person elected to represent others or the "ex-nun" who betrayed her calling?

The "Bachmann homophobia" issue is rife with the kind of lying and unfair reporting that I am on a mission to expose.

Good. Because, trust me, with this crew as the opposition, you'll find enough of it to keep us in stitches for a while.

Stop me if I'm wrong, here. But Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., was 5'2" ... and he was measured standing in boots that gave him a lift.

He also palled out with a guy who was 6'4" ... So I guess Mutt & Jeff were "born" prior to becoming famous in movies?

Just the opposite. There was a couple, down the block from my parent's store. She was tall. And, her husband was short.

So I asked my mom how they ever made love? And, my mom laughed and said, "when your head's on the pillow, everything fits together."

Of course, Julia Child demonstrated this as well. But by then my mom had clued me in. So I know Julia Child loved her husband very much.

Sarah Palin is a very independent woman! She's not one of these candidates who would stay locked inside the religious zealots point of view. She is mainly an economic reformer. She wants to cut out the "big bad barons" ... who use governent to steal from ... And, they could care less about what the results of this are. They think their money gives them power.

I think Sarah has it in her to surprise everybody by picking her way through our collapsed system ... and bring hope back, alive, again.

You're not going to find credentials like this lurking among any of the other candidates.

My mom was short. A friend of mine, taller than me, used to hug her ... and call her a meatball.

Unexpectedly, you can use words in ways that are honest to goodness loving and appealing.

What did Michele Bachmann get here? Her hame is in print. And, as Nixon said ... All that counts is that they spell your name, correctly.

Irene said: "Imagine if Bachmann were a lefty, and the two women were fundamentalist Christians from a right-to-life movement."

That thought experiment pretty much accomplishes the entire point of this post. But unfortunately, using the "what if it was a conservative" is too cliche, even though it cleanly addresses the entire depth of the issue.

I went to high school with a porn star. She was not a porn star then, but she was hot. I mean sizzling hot. She was small too, maybe even shorter than 5'-2". I used to look at her in history class and think, "she would make a great porn star."

LZ Granderson, chosen as the Journalist of the Year by the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association today has a hit piece out on his complete lack of ability to understand Michelle Bachmann's electoral appeal.

And while the hit piece is clearly part of a concerted effort of the Journo-listers to suddenly and all together write disparaging pieces simultaneously about Michelle Bachmann, the thing you'll notice about Granderson's hit piece is that he says nothing about any rabid homophobia on Michelle Bachmann's part.

Granderson:"For some reason, no matter how ridiculous some of her statements are, she keeps getting more popular. It's like that one season of "American Idol" when people kept voting for Sanjaya, not because he was a good singer -- in fact he was awful -- but just to screw with the system. A large part of me hopes these poll numbers reveal some wild and free Iowans also screwing with the system."

The thing that is striking about his hit piece however is that, given free reign by CNN to write anything he wanted to about Michelle Bachmann, the National Gay and Lesbian Journalist of the Year did not criticize Bachmann about her stance on gay issues or raise any questions about rabid homophobia on her part.

More Mean Girls, high school girls' gym-style politics from our Betters On The Lest. Making fun of her height, claiming she got "scared" and was "crying" when confronted by a couple of she-beasts is SOP for cliques of bullying girls, which is what the GLBTBDSMWTFBBQ movement has devolved to, if they were ever anything else. Their animus to Bachmann and anyone else who disagrees with them boils down to "I hate her! I just hate her!" It's no more based on rationality than that.

"Conservatives are apparently not allowed to defend themselves. David Prosser, Michelle Bachmann, similar situations."

The political goal of these rabid heterophobics is to corner conservatives, block their paths and hope a confrontation breaks out and that some physical violence occurs.

See, they're usually trailed by friendly cops who are in on it.

That way, they can call their union police pals who are in on the scam and have the conservative politician arrested and try to end their career.

All conservatives are aware of this sick, twisted illegal and immoral political tactic and do everything they can to defend themselves against it.

The Democrats have their corrupt union cops standing by at all times ready to arrest any conservative Republican or Tea Party candidate who tries to defend themselves against hostile heterophobics who trap them in bathrooms.

That's why we have to destroy their unions and amend our state constitutions to outlaw police unions.

Bachmann did what any fighter does upon encountering a hostile force. She made a counter move.

There is a new trend for female bullies to freely assault strangers in public, which is not a traditional female activity.

Lesbians seem to come in very female and sweet modes or in very butch and pushy modes. I believe that the controller/controlled relationship is as much a part of a lesbian couples psychology as it is of a Heterosexual's.

When a stranger seeks control over my actions and their body language and speech tone asserts they have power over me, then I am left to either use 1)the mature action of soft patience followed by a call out to authorities in the building, or 2)attack them with greater voice commands and threats.

Doing nothing is not an available option, unless I like being controlled.

I sometimes miss those good old days before my wife insisted that I be so damned mature.

But my wife is right that observers will remember the hostility of the attack I give out and not that I had a good reason. Rambos are not really popular.

Mrs Bachmann's height is normal (think lyrics to, "Has Anybody Seen My Gal?"). What Randi Rhodes is upset about, I can't imagine, but, then, she was one of the stars of Air America, along with Stuart Smalley.

Since most Americans qualify as "homophobes" according to the militant homosexuals, her attackers may be doing Mrs Bachmann a favor, distinguishing her from the squishes found among the ranks of the RINOs.

As to the incident, it's so weird, if I were the people at the Daily Beast, I'd bury this one. It tends to vindicate Freud.

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew) “Care to point out where there’s “hatred” or “hurt” to someone being gay? Looks like the expression of an opinion, of course you may see it differently.

Well, you seem like a delightful chap, but I'm curious about what Ann thinks about this since she brought it up.,

Well, you seem like a delightful chap, but I'm curious about what Ann thinks about this since she brought it up.

Well you seem a delightful chap yourself, but UNLESS:1) You’re Meade; or2) You are really, REALLY Offensive to Althouse, in which case she might drop an “F-Bomb;” or3) You are clearly an intellectual heavy weight;It is EXTREMELY unlikely that Althouse is going to respond. So you’ll have to start in the Minor Leagues and work your way up to the Big Leagues. Hey it’s been done before, ask Meade.

"Bachmann signing a marriage pact which said that black families had more stable marriages under slavery than Obama."

That is a true and uncontroversial statement of fact.

Black marriages have steadily eroded since the time of slavery as the Democrat Party eliminated the need for black fathers, and has worked to deliberately trap black mothers into poverty-producing welfare programs.

Nobody is saying we should bring back slavery. We're pointing out how the Democrat Party is today's modern day producer of slavery.

It's the slavery of deliberate poverty imposed on blacks by Democrats.

A couple here have derided Bachman for being scared of a nun. I agree that nuns would normally be non-scary. Unless they were in their habit, I would probably not be able to tell they were a nun.

What these folks miss is that it was not a nun, it was an ex-nun. Now an ex-nun would not frighten me particularly but how would I or Bachman be expected to know that she was an ex-nun? Is BAchman a mind reader?

Any politician has to be careful of all the crazies out there (whether these 2 were crazies or not is beside the point)

It would not even have to be physical violence. These 2 women could have claimed that Bachman came on to one of them or some other allegation.

She doesn't know these women, has no reason to trust them and they are acting in at least a disconcerting manner.

Checking on Nancy Cosgriff is a wierd experience. See her website here:

http://www.spiralexplorations.com/about_nancy.html

I liked this bit:

Nancy has undergraduate and master’s degrees in communications and the liberal arts and a doctorate in spirituality and wisdom studies. She maintains her leading edge learning through participation in state of the art conferences, workshops and reading. +++

It would be interestint to know how and where she got her doctorate.

New age weirdo in spades.

Now, was the other woman that accosted Bachman Cosgriffs partner Beata Rydeen?

Coaching/spiritual/business partner that is. no idea whether they are lesbian partners.

When the gay subject came up and Bachmann was aware she was in the presence of lesbians, she became uncontrollably aroused and abruptly left the gathering to to hide her state sexual excitement.

When accosted by the women in the restroom, Bachmann became further aroused, which was quite disturbing to her, creating fear and confusion in her own mind. Screaming "Help!" as the only action that Bachmann could muster to try and extricate herself from the situation.

Not all that different from the time the feminist was almost raped at knife point in an elevator by a guy her asked her out.

If Hillary needed to use the toilet, first in would be Huma Abadin. And, probably some tough looking broads with badges.

If anyone tried to get to Hillary ... they'd be jumped. They'd get kneed until they buckled. Their heads would hit the floor.

And, for good measure they'd have the twisties appled to their wrists which were forced to their backs. Maybe, then, you'd see what happens when a Bradley goes bat shit crazy ... And, you're not dealing with Justice Prosser's meek response.

Since Giffords got shot ... I am just amazed to hear how our candidates are exposed to dangers!

While Sarah Palin, bless her heart. Had security present in Pella (Iowa). "Craft." It's a company of 6 Navy Seals, and 1 British Seal. And, even then, she out-foxed the plans that were put into place.

Sarah Palin is like Houdini!

Michele Bachmann, however, was just exposed to danger for no reason I can fathom.

Typical lefty violence threatened. Faced with facts - there was an influx of gay priests into the Catholic Church in the 1980s that coincided with attacks on mostly young male, but sometimes female, children for which the Church is now closing parishes and paying out millions of dollars in reparations to stay out of court - lefties threaten physical harm to people who comment on this.

I will not be cowed into silence by you.

If you lesbian and gay nuns and priests would keep your fucking hands off the kids' penises and stay out of our way in bathrooms you won't see this sort of criticism of the church aired publicly.

Please. Bachmann could shout the word "faggots!!!" at a group of gay people, then beat them with a tire iron while screaming, "I hate you all because you're gay!!" and Althouse would find a way to not call her a homophobe. While I know that Althouse support gay rights, I also know that she supports not alienating the homophobic and loonnie teabaggers who leave their drool all over her comments' sections.

But just for fun! Here's yet more proof of Bachmann's homophobia; the "pray the gay away" clinic she runs with her gay husband (oh wait, don't tell me, running an ex-gay clinic doesn't make you homophobic, right Althouse?):http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/polinaut/archive/2011/07/abc_probes_bach.shtml

Please. Bachmann could shout the word "faggots!!!" at a group of gay people, then beat them with a tire iron while screaming, "I hate you all because you're gay!!" and Althouse would find a way to not call her a homophobe.

Another imaginary martyr.

Implied, of course, is that this is what heteros have usually done to gays.

It's a lie. That tactic is how the fabricated history of gay martyrdom was created, Althouse.

Typical lefty violence threatened. Faced with facts - there was an influx of gay priests into the Catholic Church in the 1980s that coincided with attacks on mostly young male, but sometimes female, children for which the Church is now closing parishes and paying out millions of dollars in reparations to stay out of court - lefties threaten physical harm to people who comment on this.

Somebody sounds like a Lefty and it ain't me; besides, the abusive priests came in after Vatican II (early 60s) during the hippy dippy era when the whole Revolution Theology/Father Feel-Good thing was all the rage and only constitute .5% of all priests in the country.

"2) Bachmann signing a marriage pact which said that black families had more stable marriages under slavery than Obama."

Not to hijack anything but, I don't get this. It's either true or it's not.

If it's not a lie and the *fact* is that black children are more likely *now* to be born to a single mother than they were during the horrible oppression of slavery when family could be sold away at the whim of their owners... what we ought to be appalled about is not that someone was willing to say so.

This makes me think of the outrage over the suggestion that direct contact with semen makes you happier... either that's true or it's not... but the outrage wasn't over if it was true, it was over how *mean* it was to lesbians to say so.

The family was the basic unit of social organization under slavery. It was to the economic interest of planters to to encourage the stability of slave families and most of them did so. Most slave sales were either of whole families or of individuals who were at an age when it would have been normal to have left the family.

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)What the Vatican believes matters not a whip to me as I'm not a Catholic. In fact, they believe quite a bit that I think, theologically, is nonsense, thus, theologically, your point fails to move me.

You, sir, are in Deep Trouble, then AND missing out on a lot of Bingo and Beer, and the “Catholic Grrrrrlz”-nudge-nudge-know what I mean-wink-wink…….I rather believe that MOST Christians have adopted a “Catholic” stance on gay-i-tude….the ACT is immoral, not the person. You may be a Glutton, you are a SINNER, the wrong is the GLUTTONY, not you…”Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin” or “Hate the Sin, not the Sinner.” Being attracted to the opposite sex, but not acting on that attraction is OK…it’s the “Hawt Grrrl-on-Grrrl Acti0n” that’s’ the problem.

The stability of slave families is a pretty thoroughly researched issue, and as usual the shrill lefties who think they know stuff don't know anything but the myths they've been told not to question.

I didn't see an answer to the original question, but my response would have included not needing to go back any further than the turn of the century (1900's) to show the destruction of the black family.

I need to start using "dwarf". I have been using "midget" for quite some time now to refer to anyone shorter than maybe 5 foot. My kid thinks that is horrid. Esp. since my mother broke 5 foot on the way back down (she was about Bachmann's height before that).

Actually, though, I think that I can get away with midget better, since dwarfism is a real medical condition - short legs, etc.

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)I agree with you except that, theologically speaking again, simply being human makes you a sinner.

Oh you Poor Unlettred, I presume, Man….being an UNBAPTIZED Human makes you a Sinner, “Original Sin” but upon Baptism, you are “reborn.” Don’t get me started on this….I took Byzantine History, and so much of Early European History is the Herstory of THE Church and its heresies. You probably don’t even know how many “Natures” Chr!st had or whether or not Mary should rightly be called “Theotokos” or not…..and then there’s the “Filioque” Controversy.

I went to Cathoic schools. In an unlawful imprisonment case I would consider ex-nun to be an aggravating rather than mitigating factor. A lesbian and an ex-nun. That's a more blood chilling combo than a jihadi and an ex-Taliban. Bachmann is lucky to have lived to talk about this brush with the dark side......I know that the sexuality of most people is hard wired, but there does seem to be a certain amount of overlap and fuzziness among others, especialy women. I'm thinking of Anne Heche and Angelina Jolie. I get the impression that the gay community is warmly supportive of this fuzziness, but I think society would function better if it were held in disprobium. I think marriage to Angelina Jolie would involve a certain amount of jealousy and distrust towards other men that she came in contact with. If that distrust were extended to all her female friends,, it would make the marriage that much less cohesive. In a way it's kind of titillating when a good looking woman dallies in lesbo activities, but, on the whole, I see dilletante homosexuality as being threatening to the institution of marriage. I guess if the husband were present and approved that would be OK. I guess you could look upon it as a kind of foreplay. He could watch Angelina go at it with Anne and, as long as he only had sex with Angelina, that would be OK according to Catholic doctrine. Still I think this would be the wrong road to tread. There are many aspects of the gay rights debate that have not been properly examined.

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)Yes...and immediately start sinning again. Which begs the question...are the undead sinners? They don't have any real capacity for free will or the whole genre falls apart.

The “Undead?” Zombies or Vampires? Because we’re not gonna entertain any discussion of ZOMBIES, a way over-blown threat…Vampires, possibly, depending on whether you adopt the “biological” or “theological” basis for their existence…..

At 5'1" myself, having shrunk with age from 5'2" I can tell you that presence is not determined by height.

I've controlled 1500lb horses/stallions with body posture and tone just by knowing how equines think and respond to power.

I've hired and fired my share of men and women, possibly 100% taller than me and had no problem looking them in the eye...it's not based on physical height. Mostly I've enjoyed supervising a wonderfully diverse group of people, by being big in integrity, spirit, enthusiasm and love for each of them as the individual they have a right to be, within our productive work structure.

Liking people because of their differences instead of inspite of them takes a very big heart and soul, not so much height.

The right person to lead will always have personal strengths and weaknesses but, they will be the right person to lead because of them...not inspite of them.

And "Five foot two, eyes of blue..." etc., wasn't about a woman's average height, it was a reflection of a time when being petite was preferred. I suppose it made you cute and child-like.

This was before my time.

Being short sucks.

I will admit that it seems my height *now* is more average than it was before, because I live in a different part of the country with a different ethnic make-up. Lots of short Hispanic women around here. I was on the far short end of height for Scandinavians in Minnesota.

Like all lefties Randi Rhodes is gross, gross and thuggish. Listen to Alpha Liberal on this thread. One vicious baseless slur after another. That's all they know. Assault "the enemy." And their goal? Total power and total punishment of "the enemy." Alpha Liberal's deepest desire is to kill. Kill Kill Kill. Then rest. Then kill again. Alpha and Obama WANT chaos. Why? So that they can impose EXTREME MEASURES. First there will be camps. Then killing. Think it can't happen here? What's different about here than where other Alpha Liberals, his number is legion, have killed for the greater good or the common good or the new man? Nothing.

Randi Rhodes' face would stop a clock. She's got the mouth of a crack whore, and manners to match.

The alleged bathroom incident is all she said she said. My guess is that two politicized passive aggressive lesbians blocked Rep. Bachmann's exit from the powder room. She handled it just right. Absolutely no good could come from any kind of dialogue. She escalated it, the lesbians soiled their Depends, end of story.

Lesbians can be very scary. It is a style of belligerence. But Bachmann is prone to gay panic & there is hysteria in her. Dr. Laura Schlessinger, also very small in person, once noted she was threatened physically by a non-fan & had him in submission before he knew what hit him. Camille Paglia similarly is all about fisticuffs. That's how to deal with lesbians.

She was in a room confronted by hostile folks. Given the proclivity of liberals to make stuff up(the article itself is a case in point) she was smart to beat them to the punch, scream and file a complaint. They wouldn’t even let her take a leak in peace.

“If you’re involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it’s bondage. It is personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement.”

Speaking for myself, I would have to see or hear the person actually speaking those words before attempting a judgement. Got a link to video or audio?

Being only 5'1" I'm big enough to admit...I meant to type "100% of them were taller than me."

Fred: And no, never had anyone suggest a Napoleon Complex, it wasn't great to be so short...it just wasn't a problem either. Didn't have to make up for anything, because everyone has strengths and weaknesses, it's what you do with them that matters. On the contrary, most would ask me why I didn't fire someone or other...those that throw the word insubordinate around. Thoughtful and constructive debate makes us all better. If someone can take your idea apart, they save you from making an asshat out of yourself.

There were no black marriages, in any legal sense. Slaves had NO civil rights. Some masters performed "marriage" ceremonies, but there was no legal marriage.

Family life was greatly truncated by the slave system. Families did not dine together because of work schedules. They were often split by sales of slaves. Men and women could and did leave their partners with relative impunity. Kids were raised by "the village" as much as by the family.

Notwithstanding this, slaves tried to maintain family ties, and many were successful.

The actual statement of the pledge--that a child morn in slavery in 1860 was more likely to grow up in a family with a father than a black child today--sadly is probably correct. This is partly because 1860 was near the end of slavery and blacks could have legalized families after the war. The statement may not have been true in 1830 or 1840.

The statement in the pledge claims too much and lacks context, as they say. For example a black child born today is probably 25 times more likely than a slave child to reach the age of 16 alive. The slave child mortality was atrocious.

@David (and others): When asserting facts, it's helpful to provide sources. To me, your list of "facts" seems more likely to have come from Uncle Tom's Cabin than from the scholarship of Fogel & Engerman, Eugene Genovese, or Herbert Gutman, to list the main historians of slavery I'm aware of, all of whom provide evidence for the importance of slave families.

This is not some pedantic point; it's essential to understanding why Bachmann would sign something like the "pledge," what the signers of it are trying to say, and why--whether you agree or disagree with them--they are in no way "praising" slavery.

Bachmann's argument is quite simple, really: The Great Society and its successor programs have inflicted far more damage on the African-American family than even was inflicted by an institution as wicked as slavery. It's pretty amazing that a point like that can be made, and it serves as one hell of a wake-up call. It's absurd to think that Bachmann and the authors of this "pledge" are arguing for the desirability of slavery. The point is the dysfunction bred by the welfare state.

The fact that Bachmann's critics are only attacking an absurd strawman suggests that, if they have the ability to understand the point being made, they have no effective counterargument.

The colossal failure of the welfare state would be an extremely useful issue to raise in the 2012 election.

when did it become a mystery that bachmann is an anti-gay crusader (whose husband claims to 'cure' them)? all i ever knew of her, until recently, was that she was famously being touted as "the new anita bryant" as she placed herself in the middle of every and any effort to provide legal equality for gay citizens. i haven't bothered to check it out, but are you telling us, ann, that her past has been whitewashed away from internet searches?