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To be honest I think there is enough blame to go around and sure management made mistakes when they caved to excessive union demands. The Unions went from being a positive organization that protected workers rights and safety to an organization that strong armed GM into unsustainable employee benefits and pay.

So it was not only the union's fault, pretty much the point I was trying to get across.

It "matters to my point". In the interest of proving that the UAW was complicit in the eventual failure of GM. You cant tell me the Unions were that naive. That their pay and benefits compared to anywhere in the US or the world was grossly out of balance for typical compensation for that type of worker.

The union does not have access to the books or company direction. Since the company was willing to agree to the conditions it would be safe to assume the company crunched the numbers. In reality the company was not putting anything away for the worker's retirement, rather they said they were investing the money into GM and the profits would pay for peoples retirement. Basically they put all the eggs in one basket and got it wrong.

You seem to lack objectivity. Obviously they both had a hand in it. We need management, we don't need unions.

Perfectly objective, I owe nothing to the union or management and am not paying for the mess they made. Just trying to counter your, its all the union fault view.

I brought it up and continued to bring it up after someone, maybe you replied that class warfare has been a round for ages. Class division is NOT whats wrong with America.

Maybe someone else, not going back to see who, don't really care.

This made me laugh. I am a student of history and " read it" incessantly. I'm not sure what you mean by the wrestling comment or I would respond.

Wrestling comment,

The French Revolution in 1789 was about the populace's attempt to wrest political power from the monarchy.

Catherine de Medici (April 13, 1519 - January 5, 1589) became a power in world politics after the death of her husband, King of France Henry II. She was finally able to wrestle power away from those close to Henry and she later went on to manage the Kingdom as regent while her sons were too young to truly wield power.

The poor ???? The class divide can never be bridged let alone by forced equality or social justice.

It would take dictatorial powers for a government to act out on the inequities of a society. No amount of taxation, wealth redistribution or forced corporate participation could ever make the human condition "fair"

I think we share the same fundamental political philosophy so this is not directed at you.

If you gave the government the power to pile up all the wealth in one place and then actually equally distribute it in a short amount of time the people that had nothing would be poor....again and the people that were rich would be rich again.

Leftist ideology is fundamentally flawed in the fact that it actually assume that we are all equal.

Was an offhand comment.

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain