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Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

We all know that there are many people who are for and against the whole "is tobi really madara or not" thing.
in my own oppinion i dont think so. the evidence im going with is the fact of his sharingan.

when we look at kakashi, he can't turn off his sharingan as it was active when he got it. when we look at tobi he always has his sharingan on. never turns it off.
ok yeah, some can argue that that's because he has the ems but if your willing to provide evidence of tobi wielding the ems show me, cos iv never seen a picture of him in the manga or animie with the ems. now surely he'd use it a couple of times and we'd get a close up or something.

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

GREAT POINT!!!! I've noticed that too but never made the connection back to Kakashi. I think that Tobi is someone who has Madara's eye but is not an Uchiha. In another post someone said they believed that Orochimaru had helped Tobi create the original Zetsu, which would explain the how Kabuto knows so much about him. The key is what character have we've seen that would have been in the village around the time Orochimaru was still a leaf shinobi that would also be obsessed with the Uchiha.

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

i think kakashi cant turn his sharingan off cuz it isnt originally his (if i recall correctly).
with the same kinda logic you can argue that tobi cant turn his off if he should be madara... you know he got the sharingan he has right now from his brother ;D

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

sorry to tell you but he did turn his saringan off and on...it was when he met sasuke first to prove he was a uchiha and then to turn of ameutarsu he turned his saringan off....but check my theory out on who tobi is here http://www.narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56095

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

Originally Posted by shmanton

We all know that there are many people who are for and against the whole "is tobi really madara or not" thing.
in my own oppinion i dont think so. the evidence im going with is the fact of his sharingan.

when we look at kakashi, he can't turn off his sharingan as it was active when he got it. when we look at tobi he always has his sharingan on. never turns it off.
ok yeah, some can argue that that's because he has the ems but if your willing to provide evidence of tobi wielding the ems show me, cos iv never seen a picture of him in the manga or animie with the ems. now surely he'd use it a couple of times and we'd get a close up or something.

what you think??

Didn't Itachi always keep his sharingan activated, even when he wasn't using it?

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

Originally Posted by grumpel

i think kakashi cant turn his sharingan off cuz it isnt originally his (if i recall correctly).
with the same kinda logic you can argue that tobi cant turn his off if he should be madara... you know he got the sharingan he has right now from his brother ;D

yeah i guess your right, we wont really find out till sasuke shows off a little.

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

Originally Posted by shmanton

We all know that there are many people who are for and against the whole "is tobi really madara or not" thing.
in my own oppinion i dont think so. the evidence im going with is the fact of his sharingan.

when we look at kakashi, he can't turn off his sharingan as it was active when he got it. when we look at tobi he always has his sharingan on. never turns it off.
ok yeah, some can argue that that's because he has the ems but if your willing to provide evidence of tobi wielding the ems show me, cos iv never seen a picture of him in the manga or animie with the ems. now surely he'd use it a couple of times and we'd get a close up or something.

We have never seen Tobi/Madara deactivate his sharingan but thats not wise to use that as a reason to say hes not Madara.

We have never seen Tobi/Madara face but Itachi and Konan referred to Tobi as Madara Uchiha. Kisame saw Tobi's face and called Tobi, Madara. If Tobi isnt Madara why would Kisame call him Madara when he saw his true identity?!

Kakashi cant turn off the sharingan because he is not an Uchiha. Same as Danzo couldnt turn off all the sharingans he had in his right eye and right arm.

But Itachi had his sharingan activated at all times. It would deactivate after using powerful eye moves though. Same as Sasuke.

But to assume that because we havent seen Tobi without his deactivated sharingan means hes a non Uchiha is ridiculous when you add the fact that Kisame, Itachi and Konan claims he is Madara.

Tobi/Madara's sharingan wasnt even visible until pre-Pain attack on the leaf. Does that mean that because before the Pain attack that Tobi hadnt aquired a sharingan?! No it just means the fact that he has one hasnt been revealed till that point of the manga.

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

I am against,I am against,I am against!

Madara is Tobi.Ther are a lot of peaple that Tobi or Madara,possess Obito's name,and that's why the name is Tobi,because the mask that Tobi wears is the different one that Kakashi has obtained from Obito.

However,we saw Madara with his both eyes to be sharingan in his battle with Konan.

Tobi is Madara,but the real argument is if Maara still has his original body.

Anyway,all in all I don't believe that your theory is right,although that it has some good points.

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

We have never seen Tobi/Madara deactivate his sharingan but thats not wise to use that as a reason to say hes not Madara.

We have never seen Tobi/Madara face but Itachi and Konan referred to Tobi as Madara Uchiha. Kisame saw Tobi's face and called Tobi, Madara. If Tobi isnt Madara why would Kisame call him Madara when he saw his true identity?!

Kakashi cant turn off the sharingan because he is not an Uchiha. Same as Danzo couldnt turn off all the sharingans he had in his right eye and right arm.

But Itachi had his sharingan activated at all times. It would deactivate after using powerful eye moves though. Same as Sasuke.

But to assume that because we havent seen Tobi without his deactivated sharingan means hes a non Uchiha is ridiculous when you add the fact that Kisame, Itachi and Konan claims he is Madara.

Tobi/Madara's sharingan wasnt even visible until pre-Pain attack on the leaf. Does that mean that because before the Pain attack that Tobi hadnt aquired a sharingan?! No it just means the fact that he has one hasnt been revealed till that point of the manga.

well itachi and konan have never seen madara, and if iv always introduced myself as john people will call me john and with his powers and skill no wonder they think he's really madara.
kisame doesn't call him madara when they first meet kisame asks who he is and he replies by calling himsel madara. kisame then goe on to say he doesnt believe him followed by madara saying it doesnt matter wether he does believe him or not.
this is still no proof that he is who he says he is.

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

well itachi and konan have never seen madara, and if iv always introduced myself as john people will call me john and with his powers and skill no wonder they think he's really madara.
kisame doesn't call him madara when they first meet kisame asks who he is and he replies by calling himsel madara. kisame then goe on to say he doesnt believe him followed by madara saying it doesnt matter wether he does believe him or not.
this is still no proof that he is who he says he is.

THANK YOU!!! There is no panel where Kisame meets Tobi and says "Oh I know you, you're Madara Uchiha." There is no panel that shows Itachi speaking to Tobi while he has his mask off. In fact, there is no panel where anyone who supposedly recognizes Tobi as Madara sees him with his mask off. Everyone who calls him Madara, was told he was Madara, by Tobi himself. If he really had both sharingan when he fought Konan, why not just us Susanoo? Or any other Mangekyou technique for that matter? My theory is that the other half of his face will be revealed to have been created by Zetsu, and that Tobi can only use space-time jutsu because he is not an Uchiha.

And finally, since he has told everyone he is Madara, and even told them his plan, then why does he still wear a mask to cover his face?

Kabuto said that because Madara used to go by the name of Tobi. At one point of time Madara could also be seen as the Mizukage because he was controlling him for a while.

The final coffin is still a mystery and there is nt enough evidence to say what or who was in that coffin and what Kabuto meant by that.

Out of all the Akatsuki only Zetsu calls Madara, Tobi. who cares? Itachi, Kisame and Konan acknoweldged Tobi as Madara. thats 3:1.

And who cares if Madara still wears a mask?!?! Kakashi wears a mask, Shino covers his face. Why doesnt any body question that?!?

Originally Posted by shmanton

well itachi and konan have never seen madara, and if iv always introduced myself as john people will call me john and with his powers and skill no wonder they think he's really madara.
kisame doesn't call him madara when they first meet kisame asks who he is and he replies by calling himsel madara. kisame then goe on to say he doesnt believe him followed by madara saying it doesnt matter wether he does believe him or not.
this is still no proof that he is who he says he is.

Itachi was closely tied with Madara. Konan's battle with Madara revealed that Madara in fact has 2 sharingans. If you introduced yourself as john people would call you john. but if you said you was George W. Bush people would ask "like the former president?".. Madara is not just a "Madara". Hes the Madara Uchiha who fought with the 1st and once leader of the Uchiha clan.. thats different..

your right about Kisame but when Tobi revealed himself (again) to Kisame, Kisame announced that the person that he previously met who was controlling the Mizukage was also Tobi who is also Madara. Kisame announced Tobi as Kisame himself after seeing his face!!

well itachi and konan have never seen madara, and if iv always introduced myself as john people will call me john and with his powers and skill no wonder they think he's really madara.
kisame doesn't call him madara when they first meet kisame asks who he is and he replies by calling himsel madara. kisame then goe on to say he doesnt believe him followed by madara saying it doesnt matter wether he does believe him or not.
this is still no proof that he is who he says he is.

THANK YOU!!! There is no panel where Kisame meets Tobi and says "Oh I know you, you're Madara Uchiha." There is no panel that shows Itachi speaking to Tobi while he has his mask off. In fact, there is no panel where anyone who supposedly recognizes Tobi as Madara sees him with his mask off. Everyone who calls him Madara, was told he was Madara, by Tobi himself. If he really had both sharingan when he fought Konan, why not just us Susanoo? Or any other Mangekyou technique for that matter? My theory is that the other half of his face will be revealed to have been created by Zetsu, and that Tobi can only use space-time jutsu because he is not an Uchiha.

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

to me that link just proves my point more.
when he revealed his face kisame didnt say "hmm so you are who you say you are"
he said "so your the one pulling the strings, mizukage or madara"

in my own opinion i think he's only calling him by these name because he introduced himself as these 2 people.

though what you said at the bottom of your post does make sense and i can agree with your point as maybe in the fight with hasirama his body gt detroyed but someone maybe zetsu i dont know used his white half and gave him a body or something to keep living in and as his body wont age cos it a justu he has lived this long. plus that would explain how he keeps getting back lymbs.

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

to me that link just proves my point more.
when he revealed his face kisame didnt say "hmm so you are who you say you are"
he said "so your the one pulling the strings, mizukage or madara"

in my own opinion i think he's only calling him by these name because he introduced himself as these 2 people.

though what you said at the bottom of your post does make sense and i can agree with your point as maybe in the fight with hasirama his body gt detroyed but someone maybe zetsu i dont know used his white half and gave him a body or something to keep living in and as his body wont age cos it a justu he has lived this long. plus that would explain how he keeps getting back lymbs.

no what i posted proves that when Kisame saw Tobi's face he recoginized him as the same person who was controlling the former Mizukage, Madara Uchiha..

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

i know this reply is well out of its date now but just re-read this thread and read your last post again and just wanted to say the Izanagi part is quite believable as it seems uchiha's can swap eyes and still see lol (funny way of putting it sorry) so whats stopping tobi/madara from going to his lab in which we saw he had thousands of sharingans (shopped from uchiha masacre store) and when one eye shuts from using it just replaces it and carries on

Re: Tobi = Madara. im not to sure.

Originally Posted by shmanton

We all know that there are many people who are for and against the whole "is tobi really madara or not" thing.
in my own oppinion i dont think so. the evidence im going with is the fact of his sharingan.

when we look at kakashi, he can't turn off his sharingan as it was active when he got it. when we look at tobi he always has his sharingan on. never turns it off.
ok yeah, some can argue that that's because he has the ems but if your willing to provide evidence of tobi wielding the ems show me, cos iv never seen a picture of him in the manga or animie with the ems. now surely he'd use it a couple of times and we'd get a close up or something.

what you think??

name one battle that he has needed it in so far and dont say konan why would he use say amtaeerasu on paper watse the fouth hokage didnt look like he could try controling the nine tails and fighting the fourth hokage while useing the ems it was hrad without it and he lost and he lost control of the nine tails ems would have made it worse what other proof do you have FOR THE LAST TIME TOBI = MADARA UCIHA what does he have to gain from saying im madara if he has the sharingan and warp techs how does saying he's madara give him an edge in any way do you see itachi use ms in every single fight no ( most of time normal sharingan genjutsu) only when theres no other solution he uses it stop with the tobi must be someone else if he was then who else could he be ( and zetsu calling him tobi doesnt count thats just what zetsu calls him)