While I can't say for certain what the future of our Adventure line will hold, I will say this. If the OGL for 4th edition is similar to the one for 3rd, it will allow us to continue delivering 3rd party content for D&D.

If that is, indeed, the case, then it is my intention to provide 4.0 compatability material for all of our existing 3.5 releases in as expedient a manner as possible.

I have written for:

Patron saint of papercut martyrs.

Guru of all things Kitbash, proud to carry on the traditions of Aubrey.

Ok, I can readily confirm that WorldWorks will NOT be shelling out $5,000.00 to get on the "fast train" for releasing 4E product materials...so I think we can say with confidence that there won't be a 4E patch, or any new 4E products until the free-to-release date of 1/1/2009 (not that we'll necessarily be up to speed any faster anyways).

Hopefully, we won't lag all that far behind, though.

I have written for:

Patron saint of papercut martyrs.

Guru of all things Kitbash, proud to carry on the traditions of Aubrey.

$5000?! I read that and...damn. From a business standpoint, I can understand WHY they are doing it, but UGH. Talk about stifling the small publisher! I guess 4E wont be taking over for 3E for at least a year then, will it?

$5000?! I read that and...damn. From a business standpoint, I can understand WHY they are doing it, but UGH. Talk about stifling the small publisher! I guess 4E wont be taking over for 3E for at least a year then, will it?

I feel bad for small publishers who DON'T do OGL material, and find it hard to feel bad for bandwagon jumpers putting out lame material from their parent's basement. You know the ones I'm talking about.
Putting that price tag on it is basically giving the bigger companies a jump on their product and I'm ok with that. It'll be nice to see those silly $1 pdfs disappear for a while. The final straw for me was the pdf about the many uses of a WATERSKIN. It'll be a bit of a hiccup for small publishers with integrity (like WWG) but, like Bob stated, it'll take a while to get up to speed with it a anyway.

$5000?! I read that and...damn. From a business standpoint, I can understand WHY they are doing it, but UGH. Talk about stifling the small publisher! I guess 4E wont be taking over for 3E for at least a year then, will it?

I feel bad for small publishers who DON'T do OGL material, and find it hard to feel bad for bandwagon jumpers putting out lame material from their parent's basement. You know the ones I'm talking about.Putting that price tag on it is basically giving the bigger companies a jump on their product and I'm ok with that. It'll be nice to see those silly $1 pdfs disappear for a while. The final straw for me was the pdf about the many uses of a WATERSKIN. It'll be a bit of a hiccup for small publishers with integrity (like WWG) but, like Bob stated, it'll take a while to get up to speed with it a anyway.

...point taken. I suppose I just like the option of getting some obscure stuff. Not that I often buy it. I really like what I'm reading about 4E as a system, but not sure about the MASSIVE changes in flavor. It is VERY video-gamey...but that might not be a bad thing. The OGL is much MUCH more restrictive now. If it had been like that with the original D20, things like True20, M&M, and SpyCraft would not have existed as they do now. We shall see how it goes...

I'm not very fond of 3.5 myself, but I must say that I really dig what I'm seeing in 4th edition. Being the geek that I am, I'll buy the initial books. The true test for me will be how often they get used.
And lemme tell ya, I can't wait for WATERSKIN 4.0!!!!

I'm not very fond of 3.5 myself, but I must say that I really dig what I'm seeing in 4th edition. Being the geek that I am, I'll buy the initial books. The true test for me will be how often they get used.And lemme tell ya, I can't wait for WATERSKIN 4.0!!!!

After having read about 4E, I'm having trouble not being excited for it simply because it is so DRASTICALLY different in flavor from 3.x. I'm getting that (dare I say it) new game vibe I got from when I first read AD&D (after 2nd ed! 1st was more exciting!).

Don't forget its Marketing job to put a sexy spin on a product that really hasn't changed much nor at the end of the day will. I also have a feeling that most of the "cooler" bits and pieces will be shrouded behind the subscription curtain.

Don't forget its Marketing job to put a sexy spin on a product that really hasn't changed much nor at the end of the day will. I also have a feeling that most of the "cooler" bits and pieces will be shrouded behind the subscription curtain.

Actually I'm guessing the opposite. Yes some cool bits will be behind the subscription curtain, but their core business is releasing print products. So I'd be suprised if they really didn't keep putting a majority of their time and effort into supporting the print material that does not have a subscription.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face-- Harry Dresden

Don't forget its Marketing job to put a sexy spin on a product that really hasn't changed much nor at the end of the day will. I also have a feeling that most of the "cooler" bits and pieces will be shrouded behind the subscription curtain.

Actually I'm guessing the opposite. Yes some cool bits will be behind the subscription curtain, but their core business is releasing print products. So I'd be suprised if they really didn't keep putting a majority of their time and effort into supporting the print material that does not have a subscription.

I can see them trying to do just the opposite. PDF material is vastly cheaper due to less overhead. They get their player base installed with the core print books and make the extra cash from digital products. Whether or not it catches on is something else all together.

Soon we'll be getting:
"No you didn't buy it, you only bought a license to play the game, yourself, for a limited period. Should you wish to continue to playing D&D, we suggest you upgrade to v9. Any add-ons you may have purchased will now be incompatible and should be upgraded; upgrades to WotC add-ons may be purchased from our on-line store. In the case of add-ons purchased from our approved add-on suppliers, we suggest you contact the supplier directly to determine when, or if, upgraded versions of each add-on will be available."

Moderator posts are in green oraquamarine.My posts are my personal opinion only and do not represent the official view of WorldWorksGames.

Soon we'll be getting:"No you didn't buy it, you only bought a license to play the game, yourself, for a limited period. Should you wish to continue to playing D&D, we suggest you upgrade to v9. Any add-ons you may have purchased will now be incompatible and should be upgraded; upgrades to WotC add-ons may be purchased from our on-line store. In the case of add-ons purchased from our approved add-on suppliers, we suggest you contact the supplier directly to determine when, or if, upgraded versions of each add-on will be available."

Why not? White Wolf already tried that with The Masquerade - the LARP rules for the original World of Darkness. Twice. They failed, miserably, both times.

How do they define 'product'? How different does something have to be before its a new product? Is this a job for Global Seach and Replace?

This seems a job for corporate shuffling. Make World Works Games simply the 'seller' of these products, and create other legal entities which receive the profits from the sales. If corporate branding by WWG is a concern, you can still slap their logo all over it, simply calling WWG the retailer, and not the publisher.

Me thinks that if you go this route, you'll need to pass some sort of legal litmus test showing how arms length the other corporate entities are. Otherwise, in the eyes of the courts you'll be 'merged'.

Probably, the big thing here, is for WWG to look over the demographics for who they are selling to. If its a younger crowd then going to 4e would be an obvious choice since that is the direction WOTC is taking.

How do they define 'product'? How different does something have to be before its a new product? Is this a job for Global Seach and Replace?

This seems a job for corporate shuffling. Make World Works Games simply the 'seller' of these products, and create other legal entities which receive the profits from the sales. If corporate branding by WWG is a concern, you can still slap their logo all over it, simply calling WWG the retailer, and not the publisher.

Me thinks that if you go this route, you'll need to pass some sort of legal litmus test showing how arms length the other corporate entities are. Otherwise, in the eyes of the courts you'll be 'merged'.

Probably, the big thing here, is for WWG to look over the demographics for who they are selling to. If its a younger crowd then going to 4e would be an obvious choice since that is the direction WOTC is taking.

I kinda suspected as much. Most of the active forum members seemed old.

You realize that that means you're targeting a dwindling market share.

Too put it in the words of an inventor I worked for, "You want to target the future, and not the past." That fellow is the inventor of the Digital Phone network. You used at least one of his patents almost every day of your life.

Perhaps packaging a free video of "Shake Your Booty" (artist not important) with every download will help!

The GSL is one scary, scary document. Why would anyone want to use it?

The Auld Grump

Its not a scary document. It restricts your ability to sell new gaming materials for an obsolete game system which is out of print. By definition, as of now, all materials for 3E D&D is in a declining market, never to grow.

It'll boil down to popularity and target demographics. Now, the license agreement is between the licensee, and WOTC. So... you can sell your old IP (3.5 Edition versions) to another firm (blatently, and clearly an arms length firm) and sell new stuff yourself.

I wouldn't be suprised if you start seeing online clearing houses for old D&D stuff.

Lastly, the OGL is not exclusive. You can publish stuff for Savage Worlds, and D&D 4E.

The GSL is one scary, scary document. Why would anyone want to use it?

The Auld Grump

How about: because it's free and it allows you to ride the coat tales of the most popular RPG out there?
That's a pretty strong argument to support buying into this.

To be honest (and no I'm not a lawyer but I have studied some law)
The scariness of the GSL is very simply what COULD be done by Wizards. But they could defacto do the same thing with the OGL.... (Think the 3.0 to 3.5 conversion.) The only ickyness to this is the fact that once you sign up you are on basically an enforced upgrade path to keep up with the D&D versions.

Other then that, I don't see a major problem. You can still sell for other game systems, and it is clearly not in Wizards best interest to go after vendors that support their core products no matter. I seriously doubt WWG will ever consider creating an RPG system to compete with D&D using this license, so they really have very little to worry about except for the enforced upgrade.

Now if your problem is D&D 4E and that you don't like the new system... Well that's a different conversation rather then an issue with the GSL.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face-- Harry Dresden

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