Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

I'm trying to make a customized fragrance composition for an air-freshener spray. The composition includes a small percent of Suederal LT. The problem is that Suederal LT is solving quite difficulty in ethanol and isopropanol. Aditionally, Suederal LT hasn't any kind of solubility in water. But I cant' use a 100% of ethanol/isopropanol in the finished air-freshener, so the cost for my customer would be too high.

Then, I've tried to add water. If I add a few drops of water to the finished air-freshener liquid , then Suederal LT goes inmediatly down to the bottle's bottom, forming small bubbles (it looks like drops of oil in a glass of water, but down in the bottom, instead of up on the surface)

I'd like to know if is there any effective solvent or surfactant for Suederal LT, that let me to add water to the finished air-freshener spray, in order to reduce the air-freshener costs.

I'm from Spain, please excuse my difficulties for writing in English. Thank you in advance.

Last edited by vmbg; 20th September 2012 at 04:47 PM.
Reason: Adding details

Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

Never use water as a solvent in Perfumery; ever, ever, ever. I'm surprised you are finding it difficult to dissolve Suederal in alcohol; what type of alcohol are you using? It may have too much water in it. You could try using DPG or Carbitol to dilute your fragrance and reduce costs.

Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

Not exactly like jelly here, more like an oil on the bottom. Adding more alcohol didn't solve more of this residue, I ended up at 3% and still hat more or less the same amount on the bottom of the bottle. 95% alcohol, a different one than the batch I had problems with to disolve the vanilla absolute (although I am sure nothing was wrong with this bottle of alcohol, as I could make a 25% dilution of my labdanum resinoid easily). I still don't have any DPG here, only PG. Adding PG didn't make any change.
Benzyl benzoate should be available in a pharmacy and with its mild smell it should not influence the suederal too much.
How much of the BB should I add? Would be 1 or 2% enough when used as an solubilizer?
Thanks

Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

PG should not be used in Perfumery; ever. Think of it as a second cousin to water.

You ask how much solvent to use. What are you trying to do? Make Suederal more pourable? Make your fragrance containing Suederal dissolve in ethanol? Try a mixture of Benzyl Benzoate and Benzyl Alcohol (50:50), and make a 10.0% solution of Suerderal using that mixture as a solvent. See if that will be easier to dissolve in ethanol.

Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

Hm, still some aromatics are sold disolved in pg? And it helped me to make a solution of my castoreum absolute.

Anyway, I just want a 10 or 20% solution of the Suederal in ethanol. Seems like the addition of benzyl benzoate helped in Serg Ixygon's case. But I have no clue how much I should add, but I guess I'll just try and see..

Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

In my experience PG was never used inPerfumery, only in Flavours. It attracts water, and will cause big problems. As most Flavours are water soluble this is unimportant; for Perfumery it does matter. However, if you have found that PG was useful go ahead.

Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

I've bought mine from PellWall, labeled as the original from IFF, alcohol concentration is 95% (containing 1% panthenol, which should not effect solubility at all). There are several people having this problem.
My suederal is liquid as well, never said it is not.

Maybe it's the different denaturants in the ethanol that may have been used? Mine is nearly scentless, it's for the use in cosmetics. Denaturated alcohol often has a strong odor even no 'perfume' is listed, so there must be different chemicals that are used as denaturants, some may act as solubilizer as well? In my case maybe only denatoniumbenzoat has been added, in others there might be as well isopropyl alcohol and methyl ethyl ketone (which both have an odor and are solvents).
For perfume scentless alcohol is prefered but isn't available everywhere, so there might be an option why in some cases Suederal disolves completely and in others not.
But I'm not a chemist, so just thinking aloud.

Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

I doubt if the small amount of denaturants present will cause any solubility problems. I really cannot help. All I know is that in my experience Suederal always was easily soluble inDPG and ethanol. So either your ethanol is no good, or your Suederal is no good. Maybe you should ask Chris about this.

Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

I doubt if the small amount of denaturants present will cause any solubility problems. I really cannot help. All I know is that in my experience Suederal always was easily soluble inDPG and ethanol. So either your ethanol is no good, or your Suederal is no good. Maybe you should ask Chris about this.

Re: Any effective solvent for Suederal LT?

Originally Posted by NebelGeÓst

I've bought mine from PellWall, labeled as the original from IFF, alcohol concentration is 95% (containing 1% panthenol, which should not effect solubility at all). There are several people having this problem.
My suederal is liquid as well, never said it is not.

Maybe it's the different denaturants in the ethanol that may have been used? Mine is nearly scentless, it's for the use in cosmetics. Denaturated alcohol often has a strong odor even no 'perfume' is listed, so there must be different chemicals that are used as denaturants, some may act as solubilizer as well? In my case maybe only denatoniumbenzoat has been added, in others there might be as well isopropyl alcohol and methyl ethyl ketone (which both have an odor and are solvents).
For perfume scentless alcohol is prefered but isn't available everywhere, so there might be an option why in some cases Suederal disolves completely and in others not.
But I'm not a chemist, so just thinking aloud.

Iím really not sure why youíd be having trouble with this: I bought 5Kg of Suederal from the UKís approved IFF distributor and itís from that batch that yours came. As with everything from Pell Wall itís the same stuff I use myself and Iíve had no difficulty dissolving it in ethanol or blending it with other perfumery materials. I do use a small amount of IPM in my usual denatured ethanol, so you could try that to see if it helps.

It is a pretty thick liquid, but certainly shouldnít be jelly-like: those writing about a jelly-like suederal probably have something else or possibly itís deteriorated due to age (though Iíve found it to be stable over several years in good storage conditions).