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Melvin's crazy if he thinks he can get a quality starter and a couple good relievers for $15M. We better be involved in some trades if he's serious about that $80M mark. Then again Melvin hasn't exactly been honest during this time of year before..

This is also why we will see an awful lot of young pitchers in Milwaukee this year. They cost next to nothing. And with the number of them that the Brewers have, they should have enough who throw well enough to fill out the pitching staff after a FA or two is added. I just hope they don't throw money at a reliever if they don't get one of the McCarthy/Marcum/Demptser type guys.

This is the exact point I was making for people back when we traded grienke away vs signing him. Had we signed him for what he wanted, we would have had 15 million to fill out our roster. I was predicting another 100 million payroll.

Now we see mark A wants to save some money this year to put forward higher payrolls in the future, potentially, so now we have the same problem. Wow, going to take some work. Especially considering parra was a bargain for a reliever last year at roughly 1.5 mil. Good luck finding good relievers Doug, hopefully you can strike gold.

Not to mention filling out our bench. It's a tough task, and a little bit of a reality check for those with rose colored classes, or those playing their Xbox and wondering why we can't do what they do on their games

The only thing I could see them doing differently with the bench would be to bring back Gonzalez to take some pressure of off Segura and then try and sneak Bianchi or Green back down through waivers(at least I believe both are out of options). Of course, that will make picking up a starter that much more difficult should they do that.

I knew Gamel was out. For him it is either big leagues or trade I would guess. Bianchi could probably sneak through waivers. I could see Green getting sent down if a SS can be gotten at a decent price(~$3-4M).

Where is this $80 million payroll number coming from? It doesn't make any sense to me. According to Forbes, the Brewers generated $179 million in revenue in 2011 and earned $12 million in operating income with a payroll of $100 million. I assume 2012 was slightly less profitable because they didn't make the playoffs and attendance slipped, but it wasn't a disaster by any means. If the Brewers really drop $20 million in payroll, that would be extremely disappointing.

The $80M came right from DM's mouth. I think the idea is that the club can only be profitable at the $100M mark if they make the playoffs until the new national TV deal kicks in. They are locked in at one of the worst local TV deals in the league until at least 2019(I think). Plus, at the $100M mark they don't really have the flexibility to add any payroll during the year. Plus they have a ton of guys that will be getting raises in Arby the next few years, so the current cut shouldn't be that surprising.

A new bad deal, is still a bad deal. I think they will be able to swing a much better one in 2020, but I would have thought that would also be the case coming off of their best stretch in 20 years before this new deal as well.

I understand that the number came from Melvin. My point is: how did Melvin decide on $80 million? It seems low to me. I understand that last year's payroll was probably a bit high. But, I think the team's opening day payroll was in the mid- to high-$80 millions in 2010 and 2011 and I don't remember that being a problem. And, revenue has probably grown since then, excluding the benefit of the playoffs in 2011. So, I would think an opening day payroll of $90-95 million would be a more reasonable target.

I am guessing $90-95M doesn't give him enough flexibility to add payroll during the season. That is probably the prorated max for them to make money until the new TV $ come in. Remember, that other costs of running the team will have gone up, and probably just as much as the revenue has. At $80M, he is free to make a CC type trade in season. Remember, now that the second WC has been added, they would only be guaranteed ONE home playoff game if they fall short of the division title.

Relax everyone! I bet by seasons start its near $85 million and we are A LOT more flexible going into the season if things do not pan out in certain areas of the ball club. Last year was a mess in terms of what to do with the roster and Melvin understands that now. He's learned from it and is planning in a different way from now on. I commend him from learing from his mistakes. He will have a lot of options in the pen. He will bring in situational guys and hard throwers along with stock piling some young, good arms in AAA. That way if some guy sucks, we don't have to keep trotting him out there for 3/4 of the season. BP amrs are a dime a dozen in the majors and its about finding the right 7-9 guys throughtout the season that can shorten the game for you. When it comes to starting pitching, again he's learned. The comment about not going more than 2 years on guys like Dempster is AWESOME to hear from him. HE LEARNED from giving guys like Suppan and Wolf, heck even Riske outta the pen, that 3rd year. It does no good for a team like the Brewers. It hurts their flexibility and really puts them in a jam when it does not work. (And in most cases, this usually occurs at some point)

He will find arms, hopefully discounted arms that can help fill rolls. He wants guys who throws strikes (mentioned it about the younger guys and just traded for a guy that all he does is throw strikes). He's learning and we should be really excitied that he is. We weren't far off last year and blowing out load on a few bigger names that most likely will hurt our flexibility with a lot of good younger guys coming through will only hurt the Brewers moving forward. Well done, Melvin, well done!

Fact is the Brewers need to get younger at some positions as they can't afford Hart, Weeks, and Ramirez all making $10 million on top of having Brauns contract, which is a bargain. Need to probably trade Hart or Weeks for some relievers and some prospects...

Relievers. Have. Almost. Zero. Value. The worst thing a team can do is turn a valuable asset like Hart into fungible junk. Guy who fall off the cliff talent wise due to age aside(K-Rod), everyone else in the bullpen last year not only had success in the major leagues before, but Axford in particular had been shut down for a year and a half. The worst thing they can do is chase relief pitching in FA or through a trade of an important piece. If they trade Hart, which they can't do if they want to contend this year, they better get at least a proven 3/4 starter and a B level prospect who is near big league ready in return, and preferably a position prospect since the system is shorter on those than arms.

Either way do you really think its wise to spend $10 million a year on weeks, hart and Ramirez when we need more starting pitching, need to lock up lucroy, and won't be able to afford weeks and hart when their contracts expire anyways?

Well. Lucroy is already locked up. He signed a 4yr/$12M extension prior to last year. Ramirez will likely be retiring at the end of his current deal or looking to move to the AL to DH. That leaves Hart and Weeks. I am willing to guess between Scooter Gennett and Hunter Morris, one is able to stick as a big leaguer(hopefully Gennett based on position). That would leave only one spot, assuming a different guy doesn't fill it internally. That leaves hopefully only 1-2 spots(not including CF/RF if those need to change) to fill at the time. So, yes, they can afford all of them at their current prices. Remember, should Hart leave next year, the Brewers will get a supplemental pick. And anyone can play 1b, see Fielder, Prince, they just need to hit well enough to stick.

Weeks is essential for this team. His strong bat at a position not known for power allows you to carry a non power bat (Aoki) in RF. Corey Hart on the other hand plays the most replaceable position in baseball and we could stand to get more LH bats in our lineup.

I like Scooter Gennett but not as anything more than a bench player. He doesn't give you much besides an empty BA. In a downright horrible year for Rickie Weeks he still had a higher OPS (.728) than Gennett had in AA (.714).

His ISO dipped significantly, so heres hoping that particular problem was a one year thing only since he did hit move 2b this year, was just down on HR and 3b. And him sticking really depends on if he can replicate his 2011 AFL walk numbers ever, which, considering he doesn't strike out a ton, one would hope he could do.

Everyone needs to realize that Helwig, Peralta, Rogers, Fiers, Segura, Schafer, Thornburg, Gamel, Henderson and kinzler are a big part of our future and may all make the team opening day if not by allstar break. They all make less then 1 million dollars. The goal is to sign Dempster(or another good free agent starter) 2 solid but not too expensive bullpen pitchers and maybe a power bat off the bench. Dempster would be about 10 million a year and each bullpen pitcher about 2. Leaving just enough to bring in an aging but can still get it done bat off the bench. 31 blown saves last year was rediculous. we won 83 games still with all that awfulness out of the bullpen. That means that our #1 offense in the national league and our very good young pitching staff handed our bullpen 114 leads. Remember that Krod and Axford blew 4 saves for us all of the year prior. Had they repeated that we would have won 96 games and easily won teh wildcard. I'm sure cinci at 97 took advantage of some of our BS's to get to their 97 wins as well. The difference between a division championship and maybe even a world series championship last year was Loe(gone, Krod(Gone), parra(gone), Veras(gone), Livan Hernandez(gone) and Axford/henderson. Same great offense, same great starting pitching(maybe even better with Dempster) and a bullpen full of guys who can get the job done(hopefully) means we're on our way back to the playoffs.

Gamel, if not traded, is a basically free bench power bat that can play 3 spots(4 if you count 3b, which I don't). Guys like that have value. The problem with trading him right now, is the return would be minimal. Probably another Badenhop type pitcher. If he were to play well off of the bench this year, his trade stock could rise enough to get an ok prospect or two for him.

Gamel doesn't hit well in a reserve role. He needs regular at-bats. He has very limited value as a bench player. On top of that, he has shown that he is unwilling or unable to train his body properly, so he will continue to be a walking injury and will not age well, especially in a starting role where the normal wear-and-tear will eventually cause something to pop. Teams drool after left-handed power. Anyone with an opening at first or corner outfield would be interested in Gamel. Seattle is one. There should be others. The time to deal him is now after he looked promising in limited time last year.

Where do you get that Gamel is unwilling or unable to train his body properly? I heard nothing but good things about his mental and physical preparation last year, and his early season performance showed it.

He went down with a freak knee injury after running into a low wall at high speed, which had absolutely nothing to do with his training.

Yeah, that's were the "unable" portion of the Gamel equation comes in. After years of doing nothing, he finally came into camp "in shape", and he still popped something. I suspect that he came in with a "beach body" instead of a properly trained athletic body. Just finally getting in the gym is not enough to prepare a body for the rigors of the baseball season. It's possible that he's just still injury prone, but I don't see how that is better.

What are we basing that on though? 17 ABs in 2010 and 27 in 2011 over just a few weeks each? Do those small of sample sizes mean anything at all? I don't think so personally. I think we will need to see him for a few months where it is established he is the lefty off of the bench and getting a few spot starts before we write him off completely. It would shock me if all of the movement between AAA and the big leagues and having no idea how he was going to be used may have been a factor in his poor play. There is also anecdotal evidence that finally got his act together last off season and started training correctly. He was actually quite durable despite his training concerns, having played full minor league schedules(approx 130-140 games with rest) every year except for 2010.

This is the right approach. It's the approach that they should have taken last year. They could have been much more aggressive with controlling payroll going into last season and not handcuffed themselves like they did. I threw up in my mouth when Melvin commented on his $100 million payroll as the "cost of winning". Melvin was lazy in shedding bad paper last year and overpaid to fill a shortstop need with Gonzalez. The good news is it was mostly one-year paper and it's gone now. An $80 million target is reasonable but I would argue that they don't have to get there if it doesn't make sense. The problem with this is that Doug will almost certainly spend it, even if he doesn't get value in doing so. This is what bothers me the most about Melvin. It's about building out value on the roster, not about the payroll. Just because they have $15 million to use to fill out some spots doesn't mean that you should use all $15 million to fill out the spots if you aren't getting value for your dollar. If you get good value for your money, that means that any paper that you have can be traded....which means you have more flexibility. If you add bad paper, you are locked in. Personally, I think Lohse and Dempster scream bad paper.

Man, if I were in Melvin's shoes, I would rent an apartment in Tampa Bay until I got a deal done with the Rays to bring us one of their pitchers.

I also heard that Seattle is interested in Gamel. Get a deal done. Period.

GB... $80M is reasonable if you want a .500 team that once again misses the playoffs. You talk of TB. Any trade with them will cost a boat load of prospects. Gamel would bring a low A type player and not much else.

It's the same thing every year: Doug says nothing much is happening, and payroll will not go to this point, or will be down to that point, and then, BAM, something happens that we were told wouldn't, and payroll exceeds expectations. I can't figure out how he's so successful every year in convincing us (including Mr. H.) of the Brewers' cheapness, because in the end that basically doesn't happen. But he wants us (and especially agents I'd say) to THINK it will happen so people won't try to soak us.

But let's say for a moment the Crew really is planning a 20 percent payroll cut from last year. Wow. And with TV revenue up. Wow. Tom, it really would be helpful if you could examine the numbers. Do the Brewers open their books? Are these figures available? I think it's worth an examination.

I agree that DM should be looking into what it would take to get Shields or Hellickson from Tampa. That would fill our need for an experienced starter for much less than any free agent pitcher, and probably more effective than most who are available.

I would love that(or D Holland from Texas should he become available), but I don't think the Brewers have enough that matches up with the Rays strategy. They will probably want cheap and controllable, either prospects or young big league guys. The Brewers don't have much of that apart from Lucroy that would fetch much and there is no way he is getting traded with his current deal.

TG.. the Nats are reporting they are talking with TB about Hellickson or Shields. They may be offering Morse, Espinosa, and a pitching prospect. The Brewers would have to up the ante to even get in the running with TB.

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