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Hey everybody,

We would love to hear your feedback and any suggestions you may have for our new VWVortex store.

Let us know if there is a color option you would like added or a particular merchandise item you would like to see in the store. Have you had a chance to buy an item from our store? Then we want to hear what you think about the merchandise you bought.

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IDK man, I feel like they probably have more losses leaving packages on porches and in vestibules than the drivers ****ing up and going to the wrong address.

I'd be curious what the actual theft rate is on UPS, Fed Ex, etc. I thought I had heard years ago that it was pretty high. Especially for drivers - all they have to do is drive to an address, scan the package into their system, and then drive off with it. As far as their computer system is concerned, the package was delivered because it was scanned. The fact that the driver never actually dropped it on the porch would not generally be known. I could imagine something like having a secondary vehicle parked along your route (or something similar) where you could drop the packages that you wanted to keep, who would know? GPS tracking on the truck would show you were on your route, the company computer system says it was delivered, and unless someone actually had video of you never showing up (which yes, I know, does seem to be becoming more popular nowadays), who would know? It's the buyer's word against the shipping company's computer system basically. The seller would rely on their tracking to show that it was delivered, they'd never know if it was actually stolen or not. Just sayin'......Anyone on here work or ever work for the major companies?

I'd be curious what the actual theft rate is on UPS, Fed Ex, etc. I thought I had heard years ago that it was pretty high. Especially for drivers - all they have to do is drive to an address, scan the package into their system, and then drive off with it. As far as their computer system is concerned, the package was delivered because it was scanned. The fact that the driver never actually dropped it on the porch would not generally be known. I could imagine something like having a secondary vehicle parked along your route (or something similar) where you could drop the packages that you wanted to keep, who would know? GPS tracking on the truck would show you were on your route, the company computer system says it was delivered, and unless someone actually had video of you never showing up (which yes, I know, does seem to be becoming more popular nowadays), who would know? It's the buyer's word against the shipping company's computer system basically. The seller would rely on their tracking to show that it was delivered, they'd never know if it was actually stolen or not. Just sayin'......Anyone on here work or ever work for the major companies?

My understanding is that most of the loss comes at the processing centers, not at the driver's end. It would be much easier to track driver's loss as it is checked out on the truck. One package would be a fluke, but enough to make it profitable would raise serious red flags.

Again, good luck with that.
If I was a buyer and you pulled that kinda crap on me, my next call would be to my attorney, and you'd be issuing me a refund with a quickness.

No I would not.

Here is how the "scam" plays out.

Seller sells the wheels
Scammer reports that he only got 2
Seller reports a claim to UPS
Scammer reports a claim to paypal
Seller refunds the money
Scammer collects the money
Sellers claim with UPS is resolved with the wheels being delivered to the person.

So in this situation, the buyer/scammer would get 4 wheels and 1/2 his money back.

What Gaston SHOULD do, in my opinion, is file the claim, BUT ALSO TELL UPS THAT IF THE PACKAGE IS FOUND TO RETURN IT TO YOU AND NOT TO SEND IT TO THE BUYER

The default method is to ship it to the destination. I do believe UPS will charge you for the shipping to your residence/work, but its better than losing all the money.

I'd be curious what the actual theft rate is on UPS, Fed Ex, etc. I thought I had heard years ago that it was pretty high. Especially for drivers - all they have to do is drive to an address, scan the package into their system, and then drive off with it. As far as their computer system is concerned, the package was delivered because it was scanned. The fact that the driver never actually dropped it on the porch would not generally be known. I could imagine something like having a secondary vehicle parked along your route (or something similar) where you could drop the packages that you wanted to keep, who would know? GPS tracking on the truck would show you were on your route, the company computer system says it was delivered, and unless someone actually had video of you never showing up (which yes, I know, does seem to be becoming more popular nowadays), who would know? It's the buyer's word against the shipping company's computer system basically. The seller would rely on their tracking to show that it was delivered, they'd never know if it was actually stolen or not. Just sayin'......Anyone on here work or ever work for the major companies?

How many packages go missing on a particular driver's route before someone starts noticing?

Seller sells the wheels
Scammer reports that he only got 2
Seller reports a claim to UPS
Scammer reports a claim to paypal
Seller refunds the money
Scammer collects the money
Sellers claim with UPS is resolved with the wheels being delivered to the person.

So in this situation, the buyer/scammer would get 4 wheels and 1/2 his money back.

What Gaston SHOULD do, in my opinion, is file the claim, BUT ALSO TELL UPS THAT IF THE PACKAGE IS FOUND TO RETURN IT TO YOU AND NOT TO SEND IT TO THE SHIPPER

The default method is to ship it to the destination. I do believe UPS will charge you for the shipping to your residence/work, but its better than losing all the money.

Wow, no. Once the seller began the claim with UPS and issued the refund, if and when the wheels were found they would be returned to the seller. If UPS ended up sending the wheels the buyer at the conclusion of that, the seller would be notified and would then have recourse against the buyer for the property or the amount refunded. You apparently have a 6 years old's understanding of consumer transactions.

Seller sells the wheels
Scammer reports that he only got 2
Seller reports a claim to UPS
Scammer reports a claim to paypal
Seller refunds the money
Scammer collects the money
Sellers claim with UPS is resolved with the wheels being delivered to the person.

So in this situation, the buyer/scammer would get 4 wheels and 1/2 his money back.

What Gaston SHOULD do, in my opinion, is file the claim, BUT ALSO TELL UPS THAT IF THE PACKAGE IS FOUND TO RETURN IT TO YOU AND NOT TO SEND IT TO THE SHIPPER

The default method is to ship it to the destination. I do believe UPS will charge you for the shipping to your residence/work, but its better than losing all the money.

Uhm, UPS says the wheels haven't been delivered. They are lost in the system. Barring a massive glitch in UPS that the buyer would have no control over, no one disputes that they weren't delivered. Barring the possible unfounded claim about OP being uncommunicative, buyer is the most innocent party here.
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Somewhere, possibly on TCL, there is another thread where the buyer is bitching that OP scammed him, send him 2 of 4 wheels and won't give him the money back. And because in that community, OP is a member, a part of the club, everyone is rallying support around him. And that amuses the **** out of me.

Wow, no. Once the seller began the claim with UPS and issued the refund, if and when the wheels were found they would be returned to the seller. If UPS ended up sending the wheels the buyer at the conclusion of that, the seller would be notified and would then have recourse against the buyer for the property or the amount refunded. You apparently have a 6 years old's understanding of consumer transactions.

Have you actually gone through the process or are you just talking out your ass?

This happened about 6 months ago with a steering wheel that I shipped.

I did EXACTLY what I said and had it handled in a much more timely situation than what you are saying.

Uhm, UPS says the wheels haven't been delivered. They are lost in the system. Barring a massive glitch in UPS that the buyer would have no control over, no one disputes that they weren't delivered. Barring the possible unfounded claim about OP being uncommunicative, buyer is the most innocent party here.

If Gaston has told UPS to return the wheels to him if found I have no issues with him issuing the person a refund.

Have you actually gone through the process or are you just talking out your ass?

This happened about 6 months ago with a steering wheel that I shipped.

I did EXACTLY what I said and had it handled in a much more timely situation than what you are saying.

Once a buyer/consumer requests and receives a refund for a purchased item never received, he forfeits any right to the item in question. Now, can the consumer still steal it? Possibly. But the threat of someone stealing from you does not give you the right to improperly withhold a refund for products never delivered.
If you as a seller file a claim with UPS for a lost item for which you have refunded the buyer, the package or compensation will be sent to you the seller upon resolution of the claim, not the buyer. Any shipment of the goods to the buyer at that point would have occurred in error and you would have legal recourse to have the property or cash equivalent returned to you by the buyer.
There is a correct way to conduct business, and a shady/internet/mom's basement way to conduct business. You apparently prefer the latter.

If Paypal see you are accepting payment for goods under the gift option they will try to **** you so hard it's not even funny.

They make it so miserable that there are actually forums out there dedicated to dealing with this issue.

That too. Even with legit gifts, they will freeze your account pretty quick if you have any volume.
Note that if I do a PP with a credit card (via gift or other), I can cancel that transaction and PP will probably **** you even harder than they would through dispute resolution.

Originally Posted by TooFitToQuit

Seriously?

I've only done it about 40 times and not very frequently.

Yes, talk to somethingawful about their Katrina donations. And that was real gifts.

Once a buyer/consumer requests and receives a refund for a purchased item never received, he forfeits any right to the item in question. Now, can the consumer still steal it? Possibly. But the threat of someone stealing from you does not give you the right to improperly withhold a refund for products never delivered. If you as a seller file a claim with UPS for a lost item for which you have refunded the buyer, the package or compensation will be sent to you the seller upon resolution of the claim, not the buyer. Any shipment of the goods to the buyer at that point would have occurred in error and you would have legal recourse to have the property or cash equivalent returned to you by the buyer.
There is a correct way to conduct business, and a shady/internet/mom's basement way to conduct business. You apparently prefer the latter.

I have bolded the incorrect portion. The package, if found, will be sent to the buyer, UNLESS you tell UPS to ship the package back to you.

Yes they are. Any shipment of the goods to the buyer at that point is in error (I'm not saying it doesn't happen). If it is shipped to the buyer, you would be notified, and would then have recourse with the buyer to collect YOUR property or money.

Yes they are. Any shipment of the goods to the buyer at that point is in error (I'm not saying it doesn't happen). If it is shipped to the buyer, you would be notified, and would then have recourse with the buyer to collect YOUR property or money.