Caedus, I have a question. You said you didn't like the ending of Mockingjay because it left the fate of Panem more or less in the air. Now, what I want to know is, how is this any different from Return of the Jedi? Surely that wasn't the entire Imperial army at Endor (and if you've read the EU you know it wasn't), yet the story ended there because the story of Luke, Leia and Han was complete. They're the reason I kept watching and Katniss was the reason I kept reading. Once her story is done, Panem can look after itself. The rebels might run into roadblocks, but they'll succeed eventually. In both Return of the Jedi and Mockingjay we get the sense that a new government is being set up, but we don't get the specifics- probably because they're irrelevant.

A lot of it has to do with my annoyance that in a dystopian future where a young girl grew up needing to focus on survival and eating and not much past that she continually focuses on things that make less sense in context. It was a problem I had with the first book and its a problem with the ending. In an political turmoil that is literally changing the world she focuses on things like whether or not she really loved her boyfriend. Personally I was more interested in watching her recover from losing the sister, it made more sense to me. It just annoyed me, just my opinion.

@Padme: Honestly I don't mind supplemental material but her statements about things like that are the butt of jokes, much like TCW in context of AotC and RotS. Its superfluous and meant to garner another niche market when they really don't need the money. Its not necessary and the fact that its a creator stretching to pull nonsense. Rowling said what she said to garner a homosexual market to counter the statements that her books were (in order): 1) satanic then 2) conservative and religious then 3) homophobic. She has tried to cater to all these markets and frankly she doesn't need the money. If something wasn't clear at the end of the book then it didn't need to be, and personally she closed all doors. It was over and I just never saw the need._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

@Padme: Honestly I don't mind supplemental material but her statements about things like that are the butt of jokes, much like TCW in context of AotC and RotS. Its superfluous and meant to garner another niche market when they really don't need the money. Its not necessary and the fact that its a creator stretching to pull nonsense. Rowling said what she said to garner a homosexual market to counter the statements that her books were (in order): 1) satanic then 2) conservative and religious then 3) homophobic. She has tried to cater to all these markets and frankly she doesn't need the money. If something wasn't clear at the end of the book then it didn't need to be, and personally she closed all doors. It was over and I just never saw the need.

I can understand all that. I know a few people who didn't feel the need to have every loose end tied up because they liked to use their own imaginations. I personally like knowing what careers the Golden Trio ended up going into and stuff like that. But all that aside, do you really feel any of it has ruined the series for you?_________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

Those without swords can still die upon them

Last edited by Queen Padmè Skywalker on Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:46 am; edited 1 time in total

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:18 am

Message

Crash OverrideMaster

Joined: 22 Dec 2010Posts: 1962

Speaking of TCW being superfluous, I think that TCW exists speaks toward the failure of the prequels to:

A) Depict the Clone Wars in a significant way, similar to the OT with the Galactic Civil War.

B) Properly characterize Anakin as a HERO because the higher you are the farther you fall.

C) The whole Darth Maul revival speaks toward a failure to properly utilize the character. Years ago people were saying that Maul should have survived Episode I and held Dooku's role in its sequels.

Rather amusingly I've just realized another parallel between the two trilogies. Darth Maul is to Dooku as Obi-Wan is to Yoda. Obi-Wan and Yoda hold the same role in the OT, as Obi-Wan's death necessitated Yoda's existence. Likewise with Maul and Dooku. I wouldn't say that the plot really demanded that Maul die as it somewhat did with Obi-Wan, except for the universally "happy" ending with the dark undercurrent surrounding the eponymous phantom menace.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:51 am

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

Caedus_16 wrote:

Reepicheep wrote:

Caedus, I have a question. You said you didn't like the ending of Mockingjay because it left the fate of Panem more or less in the air. Now, what I want to know is, how is this any different from Return of the Jedi? Surely that wasn't the entire Imperial army at Endor (and if you've read the EU you know it wasn't), yet the story ended there because the story of Luke, Leia and Han was complete. They're the reason I kept watching and Katniss was the reason I kept reading. Once her story is done, Panem can look after itself. The rebels might run into roadblocks, but they'll succeed eventually. In both Return of the Jedi and Mockingjay we get the sense that a new government is being set up, but we don't get the specifics- probably because they're irrelevant.

A lot of it has to do with my annoyance that in a dystopian future where a young girl grew up needing to focus on survival and eating and not much past that she continually focuses on things that make less sense in context. It was a problem I had with the first book and its a problem with the ending. In an political turmoil that is literally changing the world she focuses on things like whether or not she really loved her boyfriend. Personally I was more interested in watching her recover from losing the sister, it made more sense to me. It just annoyed me, just my opinion.

I don't know if I can relate. I care far more about my future wife than most political issues.

On a more serious note though, I think the romance side of it was relevant to the theme of survival. Remember Gale's (or Peeta's) line, "Whichever one of us she can't live without." (paraphrase) And the way I understood Katniss's mindset at the end of Mockingjay, it was certainly my mindset, was that Panem is largely a lost cause. Coin or Snow? What's the difference?_________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:23 am

Message

Caedus_16Master

Joined: 15 Apr 2008Posts: 5226Location: Korriban

Reepicheep wrote:

Caedus_16 wrote:

Reepicheep wrote:

Caedus, I have a question. You said you didn't like the ending of Mockingjay because it left the fate of Panem more or less in the air. Now, what I want to know is, how is this any different from Return of the Jedi? Surely that wasn't the entire Imperial army at Endor (and if you've read the EU you know it wasn't), yet the story ended there because the story of Luke, Leia and Han was complete. They're the reason I kept watching and Katniss was the reason I kept reading. Once her story is done, Panem can look after itself. The rebels might run into roadblocks, but they'll succeed eventually. In both Return of the Jedi and Mockingjay we get the sense that a new government is being set up, but we don't get the specifics- probably because they're irrelevant.

A lot of it has to do with my annoyance that in a dystopian future where a young girl grew up needing to focus on survival and eating and not much past that she continually focuses on things that make less sense in context. It was a problem I had with the first book and its a problem with the ending. In an political turmoil that is literally changing the world she focuses on things like whether or not she really loved her boyfriend. Personally I was more interested in watching her recover from losing the sister, it made more sense to me. It just annoyed me, just my opinion.

I don't know if I can relate. I care far more about my future wife than most political issues.

On a more serious note though, I think the romance side of it was relevant to the theme of survival. Remember Gale's (or Peeta's) line, "Whichever one of us she can't live without." (paraphrase) And the way I understood Katniss's mindset at the end of Mockingjay, it was certainly my mindset, was that Panem is largely a lost cause. Coin or Snow? What's the difference?

See but the thing is that the line in and of itself bothered me. It showed just how little point the actual conflict had to her. Its just Edward vs. Jacob via Twilight again, I grow sick of relationship crap. I honestly would have enjoyed this more if the romance remained a strategy or political side, it would have been more realistic than this kid breaking her down bit by bit while you wonder if she'll fall for the morally ambiguous Gale. It just gets old to me. Like I said, in THAT society practicality reigned except when the soap stuff came up because that's how you sell tween fiction._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:44 pm

Message

CerrineaMaster

Joined: 09 Jun 2009Posts: 1491

Omg, I actually sorta, kinda watched Twilight last night. By that I mean I had to switch to another channel whenever my brain cells screamed in their death throes. I've never read the books or seen the movies and I can honestly say that Twilight is one of the worst movies I have ever seen. It's so dreadful it can't even be classified as good dreaful.

Can someone tell me if they actually pulled dialogue from the book for this movie? The dialogue was just ghastly.

Actually everything about the movie was ghastly._________________Roqoo Depot co-founder.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:58 pm

Message

Caedus_16Master

Joined: 15 Apr 2008Posts: 5226Location: Korriban

Cerrinea wrote:

Omg, I actually sorta, kinda watched Twilight last night. By that I mean I had to switch to another channel whenever my brain cells screamed in their death throes. I've never read the books or seen the movies and I can honestly say that Twilight is one of the worst movies I have ever seen. It's so dreadful it can't even be classified as good dreaful.

Can someone tell me if they actually pulled dialogue from the book for this movie? The dialogue was just ghastly.

Actually everything about the movie was ghastly.

Book was barely more cerebral, sorry._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Omg, I actually sorta, kinda watched Twilight last night. By that I mean I had to switch to another channel whenever my brain cells screamed in their death throes. I've never read the books or seen the movies and I can honestly say that Twilight is one of the worst movies I have ever seen. It's so dreadful it can't even be classified as good dreaful.

Can someone tell me if they actually pulled dialogue from the book for this movie? The dialogue was just ghastly.

Actually everything about the movie was ghastly.

It blew my mind that the line, "And so the lion fell in love with the lamb," was actual dialogue._________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

Those without swords can still die upon them

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:31 pm

Message

DannikJerrikoEUC Staff

Joined: 09 Nov 2011Posts: 1236Location: Nirn

I know I've put this in the Funny Video thread, but take a look at this. Gives you a feeling for the book. Lolz will follow._________________There's always a bigger fish - Qui Gon Jinn.

You shall learn that history is an intricate weaving of many events. No one thing can be understood without the proper context.

The best techniques are passed on by the survivors.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:12 pm

Message

CerrineaMaster

Joined: 09 Jun 2009Posts: 1491

DannikJerriko wrote:

I know I've put this in the Funny Video thread, but take a look at this. Gives you a feeling for the book. Lolz will follow.

I actually watched all the way through chapters 5 & 6. It was that funny. Especially the part where he holds the book up to the camera to show that yes, Stephanie Meyer did actually write that. Lultz_________________Roqoo Depot co-founder.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:14 pm

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

Caedus_16 wrote:

Reepicheep wrote:

Caedus_16 wrote:

Reepicheep wrote:

Caedus, I have a question. You said you didn't like the ending of Mockingjay because it left the fate of Panem more or less in the air. Now, what I want to know is, how is this any different from Return of the Jedi? Surely that wasn't the entire Imperial army at Endor (and if you've read the EU you know it wasn't), yet the story ended there because the story of Luke, Leia and Han was complete. They're the reason I kept watching and Katniss was the reason I kept reading. Once her story is done, Panem can look after itself. The rebels might run into roadblocks, but they'll succeed eventually. In both Return of the Jedi and Mockingjay we get the sense that a new government is being set up, but we don't get the specifics- probably because they're irrelevant.

A lot of it has to do with my annoyance that in a dystopian future where a young girl grew up needing to focus on survival and eating and not much past that she continually focuses on things that make less sense in context. It was a problem I had with the first book and its a problem with the ending. In an political turmoil that is literally changing the world she focuses on things like whether or not she really loved her boyfriend. Personally I was more interested in watching her recover from losing the sister, it made more sense to me. It just annoyed me, just my opinion.

I don't know if I can relate. I care far more about my future wife than most political issues.

On a more serious note though, I think the romance side of it was relevant to the theme of survival. Remember Gale's (or Peeta's) line, "Whichever one of us she can't live without." (paraphrase) And the way I understood Katniss's mindset at the end of Mockingjay, it was certainly my mindset, was that Panem is largely a lost cause. Coin or Snow? What's the difference?

See but the thing is that the line in and of itself bothered me. It showed just how little point the actual conflict had to her. Its just Edward vs. Jacob via Twilight again, I grow sick of relationship crap. I honestly would have enjoyed this more if the romance remained a strategy or political side, it would have been more realistic than this kid breaking her down bit by bit while you wonder if she'll fall for the morally ambiguous Gale. It just gets old to me. Like I said, in THAT society practicality reigned except when the soap stuff came up because that's how you sell tween fiction.

It's a far cry from saying that the conflict had little effect on Katniss. She showed multiple signs of PTSD and contemplated suicide more than once.

A lot of the political stuff, Katniss didn't care about. She was made the Mockingjay pretty much against her will. She hated the Capitol, but she didn't have any strong feelings for the rebellion in District 13. This I can totally relate to. I don't vote for a politician because I think they're anything special, I vote to keep someone worse out of office.

I suppose this could be a difference in character, but if I meet the girl of my dreams, even if the world is in chaos, I'll take notice._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:36 pm

Message

Crash OverrideMaster

Joined: 22 Dec 2010Posts: 1962

Cerrinea wrote:

DannikJerriko wrote:

I know I've put this in the Funny Video thread, but take a look at this. Gives you a feeling for the book. Lolz will follow.

I actually watched all the way through chapters 5 & 6. It was that funny. Especially the part where he holds the book up to the camera to show that yes, Stephanie Meyer did actually write that. Lultz

"Why does nothing please you?!"

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:21 pm

Message

Caedus_16Master

Joined: 15 Apr 2008Posts: 5226Location: Korriban

Reepicheep wrote:

Caedus_16 wrote:

Reepicheep wrote:

Caedus_16 wrote:

Reepicheep wrote:

Caedus, I have a question. You said you didn't like the ending of Mockingjay because it left the fate of Panem more or less in the air. Now, what I want to know is, how is this any different from Return of the Jedi? Surely that wasn't the entire Imperial army at Endor (and if you've read the EU you know it wasn't), yet the story ended there because the story of Luke, Leia and Han was complete. They're the reason I kept watching and Katniss was the reason I kept reading. Once her story is done, Panem can look after itself. The rebels might run into roadblocks, but they'll succeed eventually. In both Return of the Jedi and Mockingjay we get the sense that a new government is being set up, but we don't get the specifics- probably because they're irrelevant.

A lot of it has to do with my annoyance that in a dystopian future where a young girl grew up needing to focus on survival and eating and not much past that she continually focuses on things that make less sense in context. It was a problem I had with the first book and its a problem with the ending. In an political turmoil that is literally changing the world she focuses on things like whether or not she really loved her boyfriend. Personally I was more interested in watching her recover from losing the sister, it made more sense to me. It just annoyed me, just my opinion.

I don't know if I can relate. I care far more about my future wife than most political issues.

On a more serious note though, I think the romance side of it was relevant to the theme of survival. Remember Gale's (or Peeta's) line, "Whichever one of us she can't live without." (paraphrase) And the way I understood Katniss's mindset at the end of Mockingjay, it was certainly my mindset, was that Panem is largely a lost cause. Coin or Snow? What's the difference?

See but the thing is that the line in and of itself bothered me. It showed just how little point the actual conflict had to her. Its just Edward vs. Jacob via Twilight again, I grow sick of relationship crap. I honestly would have enjoyed this more if the romance remained a strategy or political side, it would have been more realistic than this kid breaking her down bit by bit while you wonder if she'll fall for the morally ambiguous Gale. It just gets old to me. Like I said, in THAT society practicality reigned except when the soap stuff came up because that's how you sell tween fiction.

It's a far cry from saying that the conflict had little effect on Katniss. She showed multiple signs of PTSD and contemplated suicide more than once.

A lot of the political stuff, Katniss didn't care about. She was made the Mockingjay pretty much against her will. She hated the Capitol, but she didn't have any strong feelings for the rebellion in District 13. This I can totally relate to. I don't vote for a politician because I think they're anything special, I vote to keep someone worse out of office.

I suppose this could be a difference in character, but if I meet the girl of my dreams, even if the world is in chaos, I'll take notice.

See but they showed very little of her PTSD. They were just like "oh here sister died and she's sad, but now here's the love story" and it just felt unrealistic to me. I bet I'd also take notice if I met the love of my life in that situation, but wouldn't you think the situation at hand would be more important and that ANY romance would only really come after? Instead with her it was just "Gale" this and "Peeta" that. In the first book it was "Things are bright and pretty" and "My dress is gorgeous" and I just kinda got burned out on it. Its a great story but some of the prose and voice just didn't land with me. I'm super picky sadly._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

I know I've put this in the Funny Video thread, but take a look at this. Gives you a feeling for the book. Lolz will follow.

I actually watched all the way through chapters 5 & 6. It was that funny. Especially the part where he holds the book up to the camera to show that yes, Stephanie Meyer did actually write that. Lultz

"Why does nothing please you?!"

Bella is upset that Edward is not at school. Why?! This boy literally means nothing to you! _________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

Those without swords can still die upon them

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:25 pm

Message

ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

Caedus_16 wrote:

See but they showed very little of her PTSD. They were just like "oh here sister died and she's sad, but now here's the love story" and it just felt unrealistic to me. I bet I'd also take notice if I met the love of my life in that situation, but wouldn't you think the situation at hand would be more important and that ANY romance would only really come after? Instead with her it was just "Gale" this and "Peeta" that. In the first book it was "Things are bright and pretty" and "My dress is gorgeous" and I just kinda got burned out on it. Its a great story but some of the prose and voice just didn't land with me. I'm super picky sadly.

I'm getting the box set for Christmas, so I'll give this more thought when I re-read. Just judging by my memory, I thought the trauma and romance were handled well. I don't recall the 'romance' part of it, being as high school drama-esque as you seem to think it was. I think it made sense that Katniss would go to Peeta for comfort. For much of the trilogy, though not at the beginning, he was one of the few she could trust. He also knew what she was going through, because he had been in the Hunger Games too. And I really don't remember a love triangle. I only found out about the whole Team Peeta/Team Gale thing after I'd read them and it surprised me. Gale was the one she assumed she would end up with, if she ended up with anyone at all, but after that it was all Peeta because the Games had changed her and by the time she saw Gale again in Mockingjay, it was pretty clear that things wouldn't work out between them. Gale was also absent for much of the trilogy. I imagine it's just fangirls blowing things out of proportion.

Oh, and about the 'my dress is so pretty', I remember pretty clearly Katniss being sickened by the whole thing._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.