I disagree. I don't think there is anything valid outside of controlled MMA of shooting for doubles and singles. Throws are valid, but not just shooting and working for a takedown. The MMA fan loves to say that most fights end on the ground. I'm sorry, of all the fights I've seen, a fight rarely goes to the ground, and it is rarely only one on one, so I don't view that line of thinking as valid. If you go to the ground in a bar fight, odds are both the guy on top and bottom will be getting stomped by the other guy's friends [dunno]

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Bars are a little different. Even things like Muay Thai and Boxing start to go out the window when you add more people.

if you stand only, then you have a kickboxing match. pure wrestlers that only go for takedowns will get shut down by an experienced fighter. how often did you see chuck liddell go to the ground? rich franklin?

you have to allow for wrestling or you're excluding a form of mma which is obviously superior. i admit sometimes it's just boring, but when you have GSP and Lesnar - who FINISH fighters on the ground - it's very very entertaining. houston alexander was a great puncher, but take him down and he sucks. couture is a great wrestler, but take away his takedowns and you have the vera fight where he was being dominated.

it can be done, and fighters will adapt to the styles. the fans want to be entertained, and the fighters want to entertain, but they also don't want to end up like ali after their career is over, so they will win in the most effective way possible. if someone has weak takedown defense, you'll shoot more. if they have weak standup, you'll bang out with them.

yup. may the best man win. if you can't defend against the takedown, oh well. you can land all the blows you want when you're on your back, but if you don't work and get out of it or go for a submission, then you deserve to lose. obviously you're not as good as the guy that keeps taking you down.

if you stand only, then you have a kickboxing match. pure wrestlers that only go for takedowns will get shut down by an experienced fighter. how often did you see chuck liddell go to the ground? rich franklin?

you have to allow for wrestling or you're excluding a form of mma which is obviously superior. i admit sometimes it's just boring, but when you have GSP and Lesnar - who FINISH fighters on the ground - it's very very entertaining. houston alexander was a great puncher, but take him down and he sucks. couture is a great wrestler, but take away his takedowns and you have the vera fight where he was being dominated.

it can be done, and fighters will adapt to the styles. the fans want to be entertained, and the fighters want to entertain, but they also don't want to end up like ali after their career is over, so they will win in the most effective way possible. if someone has weak takedown defense, you'll shoot more. if they have weak standup, you'll bang out with them.

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My issue is that skilfully using BJJ off the back isn't valued by the rules unless the fight is ended, but laying on that BJJ player who is outworking you for three rounds will get you a decision win, just because of the postion you're in. Submission defence means more than submission offence if the person attempting the submissions is on his back.

In theory, pulling guard could lose you the match if you don't successfully submit the guy, despite the fight being where you want it.

if you stand only, then you have a kickboxing match. pure wrestlers that only go for takedowns will get shut down by an experienced fighter. how often did you see chuck liddell go to the ground? rich franklin?

you have to allow for wrestling or you're excluding a form of mma which is obviously superior. i admit sometimes it's just boring, but when you have GSP and Lesnar - who FINISH fighters on the ground - it's very very entertaining. houston alexander was a great puncher, but take him down and he sucks. couture is a great wrestler, but take away his takedowns and you have the vera fight where he was being dominated.

it can be done, and fighters will adapt to the styles. the fans want to be entertained, and the fighters want to entertain, but they also don't want to end up like ali after their career is over, so they will win in the most effective way possible. if someone has weak takedown defense, you'll shoot more. if they have weak standup, you'll bang out with them.

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wrestling is fine..but how bout we let people grab the cage to negate wrestler domination? Knees to the head as well during the sprawl....

UFC rules favor lay n pray...in a ring a wrestler wouldn't dominate as much and you'd get rid of that lay n pray gayness, unless they just let people grab the fence......shit is stupid, wtf is the point of it but to support wrestler domination?

^I assumed it was to avoid serious injury. Imagine twisting your fingers into a fence and some big bastard ripping you away from it. You could get breaks, lacerations and more.

I still don't get the concept of knees during the shoot being banned.
I remember hearing that a downed fighter is a fighter with three points of contact with the ground. Wouldn't that permit knees to the heads of shooting fighters at the right times?

i thought you could throw knees if they're coming for the shoot. a downed fighter is if they're on one knee or more i think - which is why they end fights if the person smashes someone and when they drop and the standing person already had a knee coming up - the standing fighter will lose due to a technicality.

on the other hand, i think it's crazy when they let fights continue when they know the person is not fighting consciously. it's hard to watch a fight like that guy in 105 that went for the 3 rounds but after the first you know he was dead.

^I assumed it was to avoid serious injury. Imagine twisting your fingers into a fence and some big bastard ripping you away from it. You could get breaks, lacerations and more.

I still don't get the concept of knees during the shoot being banned.
I remember hearing that a downed fighter is a fighter with three points of contact with the ground. Wouldn't that permit knees to the heads of shooting fighters at the right times?

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babalu / liddell I - sobral shoots for leg gets planted with a shin kick to the face, perfectly timed.... idk how the rules work if you are throwing a knee and a dude shoots into it and where his knees are etc

i cant even imagine a challange for gsp either.....hardy standup isnt that bad...but i think that gsp's stand up is equally as good if not better....and i also know that gsp is gonna be able to take down hardy at will.... personally hardy doesnt really impress me that much......id rather see koscheck vs hardy.....

either way we know who the true WW champ is and i dont think anyone is gonna get in his way.....especially now hardy...