You are doing an appraisal on our CEO on Monday - any questions for him?

So David you have been spending a lot of time and money with architects planning a shiny bigger stadium. errr are you sure about your maths on this one when we had UNDER 10k in for a critical game with Wasps?

C'mon. Really? I know it's fashionable on this board but the Ellisbashing after every loss is getting a bit old hat now. He's the CEO for God's sake, not a player or member of the coaching staff. And last time I checked attendance to a local rugby match wasn't compulsory.

Y'see, I actually think the majority of folks who come to the Stoop on any given day don't give two s***s about that, or even know who "JK" is. Most are casual supporters who want to have a drink and watch some rugby. We on here are actually the minority (I seem to recall years ago someone worked out that CAW regulars made up something like 1% of the total stoop capacity).

What was weird is the attendance at the match said around 9000 even though looked fuller but on the website match report officially it's over 13000. Maybe was 9000 after the first wave of people walking out,

The Dead BaronY'see, I actually think the majority of folks who come to the Stoop on any given day don't give two s***s about that, or even know who "JK" is. Most are casual supporters who want to have a drink and watch some rugby. We on here are actually the minority (I seem to recall years ago someone worked out that CAW regulars made up something like 1% of the total stoop capacity).

Given there are only 4000 seats that arenít season ticket holders thatís a lot of people who spend a lot of money to be casual fans.

But either way, as you rightly say - 1pm on Sunday at start of half term, in sub zero temps with no trains during 6 nations is never going to be a sell out.

We were at the Wales match on Saturday like many others. I got home at 2030 and no way was I driving back up to Twickenham for a 1300 kick off. In fact Quins sold our tickets so I presume whoever bought them was in the seats. It is a dreadful kick off time particularly when you can watch on BT so not surprised numbers were down. I canít understand the vitriol against David Ellis. He does not like loosing anymore than we do, but has zero input on rugby! What really amuses me is that Tofty who is our head coach escapes Scot free!

I can understand why people will vent towards the owner in these situations.

What we saw on the pitch on Sunday was attrocious, and coming off the back of giving JK and Tofty new contracts it does call into question what direction he wants the club to go in.

As others have said though, not sure he can be blamed for the attendance issues on Sunday. I was unable to make it because of the transport fiasco, which I'm sure effected others, plus with the 6Ns and the game being on TV it was always likely to be a little lower than usual.

What I would be worried about if I was Ellis would be the empty seats at the end of the game. Whereas people may not have turned up for non-rugby reasons, I'd imagine the majority who left early did so because of the tripe they'd seen for the previous 70 minutes, and if that starts to translate into people not coming in the first place then we'll have bigger problems.

It's always the games where it's a massive hassle to get there or I make a big effort to get to from far away that are an utter let down. As yesterday's was, as was driving through the snow to the Ulster match last December.

The Sunday games have always been poorly attended for as long as I can remember, add in all the aforementioned factors and I'm not exactly surprised that it was below the usual. Also didn't help that our last non AW home game was also at home to Wasps too.

I thought the attendance was actually quite decent, but no atmosphere and lots of early leavers. No atmosphere largely due to the dreadful start. I know if the team are struggling then the supporters should make more noise and get behind them, but it is hard sometimes.

the attempt at signing a round of Mighty Quin was one of the weakest I've heard and not sure there was a single sustained "come on you quins" or "harlequins, clap clap clap"

T-BoneI thought the attendance was actually quite decent, but no atmosphere and lots of early leavers. No atmosphere largely due to the dreadful start. I know if the team are struggling then the supporters should make more noise and get behind them, but it is hard sometimes.
the attempt at signing a round of Mighty Quin was one of the weakest I've heard and not sure there was a single sustained "come on you quins" or "harlequins, clap clap clap"

The timing of their Mighty Quin thing was utterly stupid. We'd just been turned over again and had butchered another drive and the crowd were freezing and annoyed.

I really hope the empty seats will shock them -- the fact Kingston referenced it means they certainly noticed (well, they'd have been hard pressed not to).

The first and only question should be: 'what are you doing to stop history continually repeating itself since you took over?'

Simply put, whilst some good work has undeniably been done outside the First Team Squad, it is the FTS that is what most fans care most about.

Our discipline continues to be hopeless.
Our defence is worse than our discipline.
The Stoop is no longer a tough place to come.
Our away form is woeful.
We fought to get into the Champions Cup and were out by Match Day 3.
We keep signing injury-prone players.

And yet the coaching staff has simply grown and not in the slightest bit evolved. The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result. That is precisely our approach, it would appear.

And by re-signing the coaching team, how on God's earth does he think things are going to improve with no change?

Talkshowhost David Ellis is not the owner of Quins he is an employee! He is now on the board, but the rugby Ďguruí on our board is Sean Fitzpatrick. Duncan Saville is our owner although others involved eg Charles Jillings representative in UK

MonteTalkshowhost David Ellis is not the owner of Quins he is an employee! He is now on the board, but the rugby Ďguruí on our board is Sean Fitzpatrick. Duncan Saville is our owner although others involved eg Charles Jillings representative in UK

Yup fair point that was the wrong word to use.

Chief Executive.

Either way he's the one tasked with making the decisions around the coaching staff (or at least around the DOR who then in turn is responsible for the coaching staff).

Not unless Quins is run in a very different way to almost any other company.

Yes the Chief Executive might need to get approval from the board (although in most cases hiring and firing staff would come under their sole responsibilities) but he certainly wouldn't need to wait until instructed.

- Investopedia
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A chief executive officer (CEO) is the highest-ranking executive in a company, and their primary responsibilities include making major corporate decisions, managing the overall operations and resources of a company, and acting as the main point of communication between the board of directors and corporate operations.

Safri-quinI dont think JK 'reports' into David Ellis.
I think DE is primarily focussed on running Quins as a business - and the board (of which he is a member) monitor the playing department - so he is one of a number of stakeholders...

Certainly don't believe he has the remit to individually fire or sanction JK or any of the playing dept...

As I said he may well have to run it past the board, but as Chief Executive I'd be incredibly surprised if he was having to do what Fitzpatrick tells him.

I'd imagine, and hope, that he'd take Fitzpatrick's advice before taking anything major on the playing front to the board, but I think as Chief Exec he would be the one bringing decisions like that to the board in the first place.

fitzpatrick is a figurehead, you really think he has anything to do with the day to day running of the club, operational, or on the pitch, whatsoever? The most he's done is maybe give his mate Wayne a ring when we were carrying out our "global search for the best DoR".

Hard to see how the board and/or DE would take any action less than 2wks after renewing the coaching staff contracts. I mean, they'd look ridiculous and its probably a lose-lose for them in terms of perceptions unless something extreme happens like we get relegated.

I don't think the board and DE want us to be mediocre. I think they mean it when they say they'd like us to be a top club. However the caveat they aren't mentioning is that we are financially constrained vs other clubs and in reality what they want is 'the best performance and return for the budget we have.'

There's no kind way of spinning it anymore...JK is a cheap DOR and the squad investment is mostly 'bargain' players unwanted elsewhere.
The board clearly aren't going to run-up huge debts chasing the Prem/Champions Cup. What they seem to be doing is spending just enough to keep the Quins 'product' ticking along until the property deals and planning permissions for the Stoop are worked through....

DE and JK ain't going anywhere unless fans start hitting the club in the wallet by cancelling season tickets, which i don't see happening.

If you look at the quality of the squad that Wasps have assembled (including strengthening for next season), why are we unable to recruit like that? Surely the one key attribute of the DoR has to be ability to identify, attract and retain great players? That followed by motivating and creating a genuine team that gels from otherwise relatively ordinary players, or at least, generally thought to be ordinary, as Baxter has done at Exeter.

Dark PiesHard to see how the board and/or DE would take any action less than 2wks after renewing the coaching staff contracts. I mean, they'd look ridiculous and its probably a lose-lose for them in terms of perceptions unless something extreme happens like we get relegated.
I don't think the board and DE want us to be mediocre. I think they mean it when they say they'd like us to be a top club. However the caveat they aren't mentioning is that we are financially constrained vs other clubs and in reality what they want is 'the best performance and return for the budget we have.'

There's no kind way of spinning it anymore...JK is a cheap DOR and the squad investment is mostly 'bargain' players unwanted elsewhere.
The board clearly aren't going to run-up huge debts chasing the Prem/Champions Cup. What they seem to be doing is spending just enough to keep the Quins 'product' ticking along until the property deals and planning permissions for the Stoop are worked through....

DE and JK ain't going anywhere unless fans start hitting the club in the wallet by cancelling season tickets, which i don't see happening.

I think that sadly this is all starting to look very accurate.

I obviously don't know about the property side of it etc. but it's certainly feeling increasingly as if we're not competing on the same level as other clubs financially, even when there's a salary cap to try and ensure that's exactly what's going on.

I actually think we're very lucky we're in a World Cup period, because if not even more of our top players could be looking to leave.

BucksquinIf you look at the quality of the squad that Wasps have assembled (including strengthening for next season), why are we unable to recruit like that? Surely the one key attribute of the DoR has to be ability to identify, attract and retain great players? That followed by motivating and creating a genuine team that gels from otherwise relatively ordinary players, or at least, generally thought to be ordinary, as Baxter has done at Exeter.

Itís a combination of factors, but weíre a club that runs at a massive loss and we donít have a lot of money to spend.

Added to that, why would a player like Shields or Sopoaga want to sign for us? No player of that calibre is going to be queuing up to sign to play for JK are they?

Well, one of the big attractions for players is European games. Until we can qualify for Europe every year and have a good chance of getting out of our pool, there's going to be less attraction compared with the likes of Sarries - who can offer a good chance of that every year.

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