Muslims look up to him as Isa, one of the five major prophets, or messengers, of God.

And Christians revere him as Jesus, the Christ, the ultimate manifestation of God on Earth; for many the actual only son of the Supreme Being.

As Christmas approaches, The Vancouver Sun sought to explore the various meanings that a noted Roman Catholic, Protestant, Muslim and Jew see in Jesus of Nazareth, arguably the most famous figure in history, undoubtedly in the West.

The four religious leaders and scholars met this week at St. Andrew’s-Wesley United Church. They gathered around a table in a small salon in the grand, neo-Gothic, stained-glass-filled church at Burrard and Nelson.

They began a tad nervously.

Interfaith dialogue doesn’t happen often in Vancouver and these accomplished specialists in their traditions were brave enough to honestly confront differences over the meaning of Jesus’ life and death at a sensitive time of year: Christmas, when Christians celebrate Jesus’ birth and most others go shopping.

During their exchange it soon became clear that Muslims hold Jesus, or Isa (his name in Arabic) in what many may consider surprisingly high esteem.

Though global politics and war make it seem Christianity and Islam are hopelessly in conflict, Muslims are captivated by the life of Jesus — and even place more emphasis on his mother, Mary, than most Protestants.

University of B.C. Muslim academic Seemi Ghazi graphically illustrated how Muslims embrace their own version of Mary’s virginal conception of Jesus and her birth labour — and have a unique understanding of the Christian crucifixion story.

While Jews definitely do not see Yeshua, the original Aramaic name for Jesus, as their saviour, some see him as a Jewish sage, or rabbi, whose followers mistakenly came to believe he was divine.

Rabbi Robert Daum

As Vancouver scholar and rabbi Robert Daum (right) made clear as he wished Christians a “very happy Christmas and a meaningful one,” many Jews try to respect Christian convictions.

The dialogue did not take long to illustrate how questions about the meaning of the birth and death of Jesus bring out deep contrasts within various streams of Christianity.

Miller started the discussion with an impassioned explanation of the “truly spectacular” divine conception and ensuing birth of Jesus at Christmas.

“The fact Jesus is God who has become man is startling,” said Miller, who worked in the highest echelons of the Vatican before Pope Benedict XVI assigned him to the Vancouver archdiocese in September.

The more than 700,000 Catholics who live in B.C. are taught to take the virginal conception of Mary “at face value, as literally true,” affirmed the long-time educator who is serving as an auxiliary Vancouver archbishop with Archbishop Raymond Roussin.

The Christmas birth story is about the “incarnation” of God to poor parents in Jesus, Miller said.

United Church Rev. Gary Paterson

“The first sound of the son of God on Earth was the cry of a child [in Bethlehem]. The eternal Son of God who became flesh is truly God and truly man. It is a mystery we cannot plumb.”

However, the strong distinctions between traditional Roman Catholic beliefs and progressive mainline Protestantism immediately arose when Paterson followed up on the archbishop’s remarks.

Paterson said it doesn’t matter if the virgin conception was literally true — the ancient New Testament story still serves as a beautiful metaphor, a powerful symbol, of Jesus’ uniqueness.

The Christmas accounts of the birth of Jesus point to “the close relationship between God and Jesus,” said Paterson, a veteran in the United Church of Canada, the country’s largest Protestant denomination with almost 400,000 adherents in B.C.

“Jesus was a teacher and mentor and person of wisdom and we need to take that more seriously. He was also a prophet. But he is more than that,” said Paterson.

“When he is called the lamb of God, the son of God, we need to take that metaphorically. Jesus is the lens through which God is illuminated for Christians.”

Then the group heard just how reverent Muslims are toward Jesus, or Isa, from Ghazi, a Sunni Muslim with north Indian roots who teaches Arabic and religious studies at UBC.

“Many well-read Christians and others have no idea Jesus is even an important figure and prophet for Muslims,” Ghazi said. “Jesus is one in a lineage of five prophets that began with the first human being, Adam, and included Noah, Moses and Abraham.”

Muslims do not believe Jesus, nor their religion’s founder, Mohammed, were divine.

But when Ghazi (left) referred to Jesus by name, she would add the honorific, “upon him be peace.”

That is what Muslims also do when they refer to Mohammed, whom they consider the final and greatest prophet.

Ghazi said Muslims, as inheritors of Jewish and Christian tradition, believe Jesus was a human being who was fully “attained,” “realized,” “whole” and “perfect.”

The Koran, the Muslim holy book, contains more than a dozen references to Jesus.

The Koran recounts Jesus’ teachings, includes miracle stories of him “breathing life” into a clay bird, claims Jesus was not crucified on a cross and promises that he will return to Earth at the end of time.

As with traditional Christians, virtually all of the more than 70,000 Muslims in B.C. and elsewhere would literally believe in Mary’s virgin conception, Ghazi said.

But the chapter in the Koran devoted to Mary, Ghazi emphasized, has a dramatically different birth story of Jesus from that of Christian tradition. The Koran has the angel Gabriel involved in the conception of Jesus.

The holy book als
o explains in graphic detail how Mary felt alone and terrified while in labour, said Ghazi.

However, Daum, who fills the Diamond chair of Jewish law and ethics at UBC, said he felt like “an honoured guest” at a dialogue over a figure who is, to put it bluntly, not particularly meaningful to Jews.

Daum made it clear that Jesus is absent from thousands of years of Jewish tradition and theology — and that Jews definitely do not believe he had a virgin conception or that he is their long-awaited messiah.

The 12th-century Jewish philosopher Maimonides was among those who said Jesus could not have been the Jewish messiah as paradise has not arrived and the world remains full of suffering, war and poverty.

However, Daum quoted the noted 20th-century Jewish teacher Martin Buber to emphasize how dialogue with Christians and Muslims and others is “profound” and provides “an opportunity to learn and grow.”

Jews (of which there are roughly 25,000 in B.C.) find fulfillment with God not through Jesus but through the Torah, or Jewish scriptures, Daum said.

He cited prominent Jewish leaders in affirming it is inappropriate for either Jews, Muslims or Christians “to be pressed into confirming the truth” of the others’ doctrines.

While there are only scattered, contradictory references to Jesus in Jewish tradition, individual Jews have developed their own thoughts about him, said Daum, who contributed a chapter to a new book titled Jesus in Twentieth Century Literature, Art and Movies (Continuum), edited by UBC’s Paul Burns.

Buber, for instance, called Jesus “my great brother,” while admiring him as a teacher who had an authentic relationship to God.

THE LITERAL TRUTH

After the religious leaders and scholars made their introductions, the Roman Catholic archbishop affirmed he was “very impressed” with the Muslim views of Jesus.

Miller was especially enthusiastic about Ghazi’s remarks that Muslims emphasize the centrality and literal truth of Mary’s virginal conception.

Miller also acknowledged he did not know that Muslims believed Jesus would return to Earth at the “Eschaton,” or final cosmic day of judgment.

Miller talked about the Vatican’s dedication to inter-religious dialogue in recent decades, saying the purpose of sharing spiritual viewpoints with Jews, Muslims and Protestants is not as a means of “backdoor conversion.”

Still, Miller said it’s important for representatives of different religious traditions to “be honest and avoid undue relativism” during serious theological conversations.

Though religious and secular people may share many convictions about what matters in the world, Miller said it’s often necessary to be realistic about how “deep down we often don’t believe the same things.”

As if to exemplify that, Paterson, as a member of the Protestant stream of Christianity, said he frequently felt he shared more common ground with Jews and Muslims than he did with traditional Catholics.

Paterson explained how the Christmas story, the birth of Jesus, is recounted in only two of four Christian gospels.

Suggesting Mary probably conceived Jesus through her husband, Joseph, or another man, Paterson said it’s valuable to take an adult approach to Bible stories while still finding a way to feel “passionate” about God and “the wonder and excitement” of creation.

Inspired by American Bible scholar Marcus Borg, Paterson encouraged appreciating the stories of Jesus’ birth, life, death and resurrection in a metaphorical and mystical way, similar to that of the great English Romantic poet William Blake.

Daum did not disagree with Paterson’s approach. He feels some sadness that Jews and Christians have “fundamental differences” over the role of Jesus.

Despite the extraordinarily different status that Jews and Christians give to Jesus, however, Daum said there are distinct similarities between the teachings of Jesus and other Jewish sages.

For instance, Daum said an early Jewish teacher named Hillel the Elder said: “What is hateful to you, do not do to anyone else.”

This is remarkably similar to Jesus’ quote: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

For her part, Ghazi seemed to illustrate the richness that can flow from learning different traditions’ perspectives when she described the Koran’s story of Mary’s difficult labour with Jesus.

With Miller (left) acknowledging Catholic tradition teaches that Mary’s labour was “painless,” Ghazi contrasted how the Koran describes a more full-blooded birth.

“The story is really about Mary’s suffering and solitude in her labour. At one point, Mary cries out and says, ‘I wish I were dead. I wish that I had been a thing forgotten.’ She realizes in labour there is trembling and terror and loss.”

In the Koran, bewildered Mary is ultimately supported and nurtured in the birth of baby Jesus by a palm tree, which serves as a kind of companion and midwife.

“Muslim women around the world, from South Asia to you-name-it, read this birth story when they are in labour themselves,” said Ghazi. “They find it very comforting.”

THE ROAD TO SALVATION

As the Vancouver dialogue between the Muslim, Catholic, Jew and Protestant went on, nervousness receded, openness expanded and more laughter was shared.

The key theological sticking point for the Muslim, Jew and liberal Protestant, however, came down to the traditional Christian claim that Jesus, as the only begotten “incarnate” son of God, provides the exclusive route to salvation.

Referring to Jesus as “Lord and Saviour,” the archbishop said the Christmas story is about how “the all-powerful God became humbled like us” through the birth of divine Jesus.

“Jesus is the one through whom I’ll be saved. It is an incredible story, almost unbelievable,” Miller said.

For the Muslim and Jew and the United Church minister, however, Jesus is not viewed as, literally, the only son of the Supreme Being — whose visitation to Earth and resurrection were necessary for all to attain eternal life.

Instead, Paterson and Daum talked about how Biblical literalism did not become common until the 16th-century Enlightenment, when Christians and others felt they had to counter the mechanistic, scientific world view by making factual claims about their faith’s doctrines.

Paterson joined the Muslim and Jew in saying he didn’t accept the traditional Catholic concept of humanity’s “original sin,” which had to be atoned by Jesus’ sacrificial death.

Instead, Paterson said he seeks ongoing “redemption,” in a mystical sense, through developing a deeper relationship with God.

Despite differences, everyone seemed to appreciate the chance to frankly air their contrasting viewpoints about the meaning of Jesus — emphasizing how people can grow in their own faith through inter-spiritual conversation.

Daum commented that it’s “illuminating and very stimulating” to take part in respectful dialogue. As the great 20th-century Jewish teacher, Abraham Joshua Heschel said:

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