Comments on: Security https://awasu.com/weblog/security/
The Wonderful World of AwasuMon, 07 Mar 2005 13:49:36 +0000
hourly
1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.2.3
By: Bill https://awasu.com/weblog/security/comment-page-1/#comment-1305
Mon, 07 Mar 2005 13:49:36 +0000http://www.awasu.com/weblog/?p=218#comment-1305I reckon that Hunter’s off his trolley writing this piece, and maybe re-reading it is what drove him to shoot himself. Is this to be the measure of every person, that he or she stand in the refractory light of what has not been done before and do or die?
]]>
By: Bill https://awasu.com/weblog/security/comment-page-1/#comment-1303
Fri, 04 Mar 2005 09:19:23 +0000http://www.awasu.com/weblog/?p=218#comment-1303Life is not about outcomes, it’s for living!

The uninebriated life is not worth living.

]]>
By: Taka https://awasu.com/weblog/security/comment-page-1/#comment-1301
Tue, 01 Mar 2005 07:39:27 +0000http://www.awasu.com/weblog/?p=218#comment-1301>>> Who would have expected to be discussing philosophy at site devoted to a RSS reader?

I’ve always said that the coolest thing about RSS is that it brings me stuff that makes me think. So I’m not surprised at all

>>> To paraphrase, you must strike out on your own, you must not conform, and you must risk “everything,” whaever everything might mean, or you are not “a man.” It seems to me a very confrontational view.
>> I get what Taka is saying about challenge bringing reward. But what i see in Thompson’s words is that true existance/fullfillment cannot be achieved without besting some form of competition.

Well, he was never known for his subtle approach but I think the underlying idea behind what he wrote was not quite that harsh. More like “you must have the courage to live your life to the fullest”. You talk about “besting all competition” but as I pointed out earlier, I think the point is that you compare yourself using your own criteria, not by someone else’s. If someone chooses to judge themself by how they stack up against others, that’s up to them but I think that’s a somewhat shallow way to do things.

>>> How many times have you heard from people who strove to be the best only to realize that once they got there, there was nothing left? Those people were deriving their purpose and fulfillment, much like Thompson, from the struggle, and not from the activity they were pursuing.

I completely agree but that’s not what I read from the article. HST is talking about “the tragedy of a man who has sacrificed his freedom on the altar of security, and wishes he could turn back the hands of time” i.e. someone who has traded his dreams and ambitions for security and the safe road. He’s not talking about competition and pushing yourself for its own sake but instead about the compromises we all make between pursuing what we really want to do and what we *think* is important i.e. security, whether it be financial or otherwise.

>>> For instance, let me use a trivial example. I very much enjoy riding my bicycle.

OK, but what if it was socially unacceptable to ride your bike? If it was frowned upon by family and friends; “riding bikes is for children, you’re an adult now, grow up please!” What if there was some financial or other personal risk involved? Would you still ride? I think that’s the question that HST is posing. He’s talking about the attitude that you take to such things. Are you willing to take on such challenges, perhaps even seek them out, or do you constantly take the safe and easy route and just conform? Yes, there are challenges in everyone’s life but are you someone who prefers to avoid them or instead, take them on? I guess it depends on how much bike riding meant to you. HST is talking about someone who, no matter how much something might mean to them, is too afraid to take on the associated risk.

>>> That’s why I find Thompson’s words so jarring. I don’t hear words of encouragement to keep up the good fight. I hear words of disdain for life-styles he does not understand.

Again, a lot of that is just him. Words of encouraging support was never really his style But certainly, at least in my experience, the most useful and motivating advice I have received often pissed me off immensely at the time. But they forced me to ask the hard questions, made me realize I didn’t like the answers and I therefore had to do something about it. As a very simple example, receiving negative feedback about Awasu , sometimes rude, is never pleasant but I’m often forced to admit that the issues they raise are fair and therefore need to be addressed.

>>> Whatever your scary decision and whatever its outcome, you have my best wishes. Thanks for letting me blather on.

Thanks for the support. It makes for a very pleasant change to talk about something other than XML parsing errors. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one

]]>
By: squeg https://awasu.com/weblog/security/comment-page-1/#comment-1300
Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:46:03 +0000http://www.awasu.com/weblog/?p=218#comment-1300Who would have expected to be discussing philosophy at site devoted to a RSS reader?

I have to say, the comment about doing “what comes next” resonates a bit with me. But I have a hard time believing that it’s an idea Thompson could have fully supported. His words seem very clear to me. To paraphrase, you must strike out on your own, you must not conform, and you must risk “everything,” whaever everything might mean, or you are not “a man.” It seems to me a very confrontational view.

I get what Taka is saying about challenge bringing reward. But what i see in Thompson’s words is that true existance/fullfillment cannot be achieved without besting some form of competition.

Socrates was credited with the famous line, “an unexamined life is not worth living.”

That one phrase means much more to me than those several paragraphs by Thompson. Socrates addresses the “why”. Wheras for me Thompson only addresses the “what.” It seems to me that anyone can fight. But not everyone knows why they fight. How many times have you heard from people who strove to be the best only to realize that once they got there, there was nothing left? Those people were deriving their purpose and fulfillment, much like Thompson, from the struggle, and not from the activity they were pursuing. I suggest that striving to be the best at something is far different from choosing your activities and striving to do them as well as you’re able. Striving for continual improvement is not the same as striving to best all competition.

For instance, let me use a trivial example. I very much enjoy riding my bicycle. I like riding it short distances and long. I ride it for the invigoration of excericise. I ride it for the scenery. I ride it for the time it provides for thought. I do not ride it to be faster than anyone else or to go farther than anyone else. A friend of mine started riding and soon had to by a more advanced and lighter bike. He joined biking group and began training hard to keep up with their draft lines so they could constantly push themselves to be faster. He couldn’t understand why i didn’t want to do the same things. He was riding to be “better” i was riding to “ride”. One is not better than the other, but they are vastly different.

There is not such thing as a life without struggle. No matter what Thompson suggests, there are many struggles in each of our lives. They may be financial, they may be familial, they may be physical, or spiritual. There are times when each of our “moral compasses” are put to the test and we’re forced to “draw our lines in the sand.” I don’t think you could delve into the life of any single individual and honestly say that they had avoided all struggle.

That’s why I find Thompson’s words so jarring. I don’t hear words of encouragement to keep up the good fight. I hear words of disdain for life-styles he does not understand. I hear a man with a certain set of priorties saying that another man with another set is inferior and weak. I hear a man that puts some form of personal adventure over familial responsibility.

So back to Socrates. He too believed in confronting your personal demons. He believed in self-improvement, acting to the best of your abilites and standing by your moral/philosophical convictions. But his focus was on understanding; it was on knowing yourself and your motivations. From understanding, actions would follow. I can support that. In fact, I believe that finding that understanding, really reflecting on who we are and what we believe to be far more challenging than “doing” anything.

Maybe Thompson believed similarly. Sadly, i have no association with him outside of the quoted text. (I’ll have to do some research to remedy that fact.)

In either case, Taka, I my intention was to direct my criticism at the rather judgemental words of the man cited in your quotation, not to disparage or downplay any difficult decisions in your own life. Whatever your scary decision and whatever its outcome, you have my best wishes.

Thanks for letting me blather on.

]]>
By: Taka https://awasu.com/weblog/security/comment-page-1/#comment-1297
Mon, 28 Feb 2005 05:29:05 +0000http://www.awasu.com/weblog/?p=218#comment-1297I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one.

Something is not of value simply because it is difficult, but if it is going to be truly of worth, it has to be earned. Part of the satisfaction I get from playing music at the level that I do is because it was so damn hard and I put in so much work to get there. As I said before, if it was easy to be good at something, then everyone would be doing it and it would certainly be of less worth. And I’ve still got a long, long way to go

Where I disagree with you is your question “Do we base our worth solely on our history of taking on seemingly impossible tasks? Do we stand around comparing our achievements to those of our peers and ancestors to determine if we measure up to some standard of competence?” Determination of worth should come from within, not by some external measure. One man’s fears and challenges could well be another’s walk in the park. But if you can seek out, face up to and overcome things that you find difficult or scary, then that is the achievement, not how they measure up by someone else’s standards.

HST talks of a man who has abandoned any notion of pushing himself, testing himself, challenging himself, a man who always takes the safe and easy route. And while someone can live a good and moral life, providing for his family, being a decent person, supporting his community, I would have to agree that if he never chose to do anything other than that which was safe, easy and convenient, then there would be something lacking. Again, not because of some external (i.e. my) measure, but because I would hope that such a person could look at himself and be disappointed because while he had achieved so much, he could have done so much more.

Talking about people who have “shaped the destiny of the world” is a big example but what HST is really talking about is having the courage to the shape the destiny of your own. If you choose to settle down, buy a house, live a conservative life then, by all means, do so but let it be an active decision. If it’s because you don’t know any other way to live or don’t have the courage to break free from societal expectations, then this the tragedy of which he writes.

But we converge with your closing comments. Live to your own standards. And fight for what you believe is important. Don’t fight, just to fight. I just happen to think that constantly challenging yourself, to not only do good things but to do more of them and better, to take control of your life and do what is important to you instead of simply taking the path of least resistance, these are all things worth fighting for