hardinparamedic:Boojum2k: Clarification solves the issue. 16 is the age of consent, a 14 year old cannot legally consent to sex. So the law does need to be involved. And for those saying there should be some flexibility given to the law, there is, it is generally up to the parents of the minor to press charges.

Pretty much this.

DAs, generally, have much better things to do than these cases. They turn into he-said, she-said cases. It usually takes a cooperative teenager now-adays to have these things go to court.

The Affidavit linked earlier in the thread pretty much illustrates the 14 year old has suffered harm, and is a willing participant in the criminal case against the 18 year old, who was 18 when the relationship began.

Well yes the high school rumor mill can be harmful but generally not worth someone getting a felony. And well a 14 yr old can be more easily coerced by parents and cops than they can another high school student that's 18.

I don't know what happened I don't pretend to and I'm not saying it's right, but crazier things have happened.

steerforth:I see quite a few people here have never been 14-year-old girls. It is entirely normal for them to experiment with their burgeoning sexuality, usually with themselves or people their own age. It is by no stretch of the imagination unusual for a 14-year-old to play with an older teenager, even one as ancient as, shock horror gosh!, an 18-year-old. I did it myself when I was 15 and in no way was it 'child' abuse. It was interesting and at times fun.

That's the real problem here. No one actually cares about the kid. Everyone just wants to punish a scapegoat. A little high school fling, and one with no pregnancy risk BTW, is never going to be as harmful as your parents having your lover arrested and sent to jail. That girl, and indeed any kid on the receiving end of these laws being abused to punish another kid they care about, is going to be scared for life by the fact her parents did this much more deeply than by anything that happened consensually.

But the 18 year old MUST be punished because someone pulled 18 out of their asshole in some committee meeting once, probably by reading off the bottle of Scotch he was drinking. Imaginary numbers are much more important that real people or society. WE MUST ENFORCE OUR NUMBERS!

doglover:steerforth: I see quite a few people here have never been 14-year-old girls. It is entirely normal for them to experiment with their burgeoning sexuality, usually with themselves or people their own age. It is by no stretch of the imagination unusual for a 14-year-old to play with an older teenager, even one as ancient as, shock horror gosh!, an 18-year-old. I did it myself when I was 15 and in no way was it 'child' abuse. It was interesting and at times fun.

That's the real problem here. No one actually cares about the kid. Everyone just wants to punish a scapegoat. A little high school fling, and one with no pregnancy risk BTW, is never going to be as harmful as your parents having your lover arrested and sent to jail. That girl, and indeed any kid on the receiving end of these laws being abused to punish another kid they care about, is going to be scared for life by the fact her parents did this much more deeply than by anything that happened consensually.

But the 18 year old MUST be punished because someone pulled 18 out of their asshole in some committee meeting once, probably by reading off the bottle of Scotch he was drinking. Imaginary numbers are much more important that real people or society. WE MUST ENFORCE OUR NUMBERS!

Because pregnancy is the only harmful thing that can happen from sex. Right.

You're not even right about the 18 thing. It would have been against the law when Kate was 17, and when she was 16. You don't give a fark about the younger girl, she exists only as part of your fantasy world to you, and her parents must automatically be evil bigots. You and the rest of the Fark Kidfarker Defense Brigade, for whatever reasons you use to justify yourselves, jumped on the bandwagon the Hunt's rolled out, and it's all turned out to be lies. The younger girls parents didn't object to their daughter having a girlfriend, they objected to her having one so far out of her peer group. They objected to Kate Hunt having so much regard for their daughter's feelings that her first sexual experience was in a goddamn school bathroom, such a loving young lady Kate is. They asked Kate's parent's twice to do something about it, they not only refused but it appears they may have been complicit in Kate hiding the girl at their house and having sex with her again. And the girl's parent's object because this did show negative effects with their daughter, it did cause her problems and grief, and was not in her best interests, just Kate getting some younger tail.

The DA offered a deal that would have left Kate off the sex offender registry, kept a felony conviction off her record, and kept her out of prison. That's a pretty good bargain for actually being guilty of those crimes, as she already has admitted.

I put it into perspective yet you seem to not understand what it is that you were implying. It must suck to not understand how the real world actually works. Here let me help. 14 year olds (Freshmen) cannot give legal consent to have sex. Ever. Nowhere in the country is this considered legal. Consent starts at 16 and is limited to a specific age range above that age, in the case of Florida it is 16 to 23. Unlimited consent (with some very tight limits) starts at 18 and is completely unfettered at 19. 18 year olds are considered legal adults for most purposes with a few limitations, most notably drinking.

In this case there is a 14 year old minor having sex with an 18 year old where the sex started while the 18 year old was already 18. Two full ages below the age of consent. This wasn't a case of birthdays making it suddenly illegal. It was patently illegal from the start. The 14 year old could not enter any type of legal consensual relationship be it sexual, a credit card or entering into a contract. Straight or gay it was illegal from the start.

Now the 18 year old should have known (the law in general doesn't allow for the "I didn't know that it was illegal" defense unless it's a really obscure law in which case a judge will decide if it's reasonable that the person should have known) that any sexual encounters with a minor may be troublesome (this is in no way obscure). The 18 year old also knew or should have known that the 14 year old was under any legal age of consent. By all accounts she was told this before it went to far by the parents of the 14 year old yet she continued the relationship.

The 18 year old (Hunt) should have taken the plea deal offered. Instead she is getting some very bad advice from the people around her and will (this is an unequivocal prediction) be spending several year behind bars when this is all said and done. Caveat, she at a later time takes the plea deal before it's too late.

Boojum2k:The DA offered a deal that would have left Kate off the sex offender registry, kept a felony conviction off her record, and kept her out of prison. That's a pretty good bargain for actually being guilty of those crimes, as she already has admitted.

Except some sources like this say she would have been convicted of a felony and been on the sex offender registry with the offered plea bargain was taken.

tinfoil-hat maggie:Boojum2k: The DA offered a deal that would have left Kate off the sex offender registry, kept a felony conviction off her record, and kept her out of prison. That's a pretty good bargain for actually being guilty of those crimes, as she already has admitted.

Except some sources like this say she would have been convicted of a felony and been on the sex offender registry with the offered plea bargain was taken.

CNN has this to say:The office of State Attorney Bruce Colton said it tendered an "extremely lenient plea offer in this case which would have ensured that the defendant avoided any term of incarceration and the stigma of being labeled a sex offender.

"In fact, in all probability the defendant would have avoided being a convicted felon," the statement continued. Colton will prepare for a mid-July trial.

CNN has had some issues, but I think they can get a quote right. Huffington Post has been at the leading edge of the Hunt's FUD campaign from the start.

doglover:steerforth: I see quite a few people here have never been 14-year-old girls. It is entirely normal for them to experiment with their burgeoning sexuality, usually with themselves or people their own age. It is by no stretch of the imagination unusual for a 14-year-old to play with an older teenager, even one as ancient as, shock horror gosh!, an 18-year-old. I did it myself when I was 15 and in no way was it 'child' abuse. It was interesting and at times fun.

That's the real problem here. No one actually cares about the kid. Everyone just wants to punish a scapegoat. A little high school fling, and one with no pregnancy risk BTW, is never going to be as harmful as your parents having your lover arrested and sent to jail. That girl, and indeed any kid on the receiving end of these laws being abused to punish another kid they care about, is going to be scared for life by the fact her parents did this much more deeply than by anything that happened consensually.

Yeah, the people insisting that the 14 year-old is "willingly" crucifying the one she loves (according to the cop's sworn affidavit) are completely insane. That poor girl is going to be ridden by guilt for a long time. She'll blame herself for Kaitlyn's legal problems, and she hates her parents right now.

Bumblefark:hardinparamedic: I linked the paper in that post. Stop being obtuse with the appeals to authority.

I can link to random stuff, too. It doesn't give me the upper hand in an argument, though.

I said that the reason we have the laws on the books that we currently do might have to do with the fact that society saw a problem with random dudes picking up their impressionable daughters and having their way with them. Prove me wrong.

I also implied that men tend to be sexual predators more often than women. I will add here, "vastly" more often. Again, prove me wrong.

And, you'll note, I never gave a pass to female predators. I jumped from the previous point to saying (without reference to gender) that clamping down on adolescent sexual experimentation (which is what this was) might not have been the "spirit of the law" as we find it on the books today. I also said that such experimentation yields just about zero evidence of harm. But again, prove me wrong.

Okay, beddy-bye time for Bumblefark. (3:30 where I'm at). Not bailing, just got toddlers to feed in the morning, so I can't hang on for the response. But, I'm sure we can pick this up at a less ungodly hour, in a different thread. (?) I will however add that, yeah; the focus male offenders to the (near) exclusion of female offenders is a perfectly valid point to raise.

We're kind of a messed up society, who doesn't let empirical facts get in the way of how we define or apply laws.

Boojum2k:tinfoil-hat maggie: Boojum2k: The DA offered a deal that would have left Kate off the sex offender registry, kept a felony conviction off her record, and kept her out of prison. That's a pretty good bargain for actually being guilty of those crimes, as she already has admitted.

Except some sources like this say she would have been convicted of a felony and been on the sex offender registry with the offered plea bargain was taken.

CNN has this to say:The office of State Attorney Bruce Colton said it tendered an "extremely lenient plea offer in this case which would have ensured that the defendant avoided any term of incarceration and the stigma of being labeled a sex offender.

"In fact, in all probability the defendant would have avoided being a convicted felon," the statement continued. Colton will prepare for a mid-July trial.

CNN has had some issues, but I think they can get a quote right. Huffington Post has been at the leading edge of the Hunt's FUD campaign from the start.

Let's say that again CNN has had some issues./And well believe what you want, I've repeatedly stated that I don't think it's right for an 18 and 14 yr old to be together, but that I don't know the circumstances and don't pretend to, but you've made up you're mind that's okay.

CNN has this to say:The office of State Attorney Bruce Colton said it tendered an "extremely lenient plea offer in this case which would have ensured that the defendant avoided any term of incarceration and the stigma of being labeled a sex offender.

"In fact, in all probability the defendant would have avoided being a convicted felon," the statement continued. Colton will prepare for a mid-July trial.

CNN has had some issues, but I think they can get a quote right. Huffington Post has been at the leading edge of the Hunt's FUD campaign from the start.

doglover:But the 18 year old MUST be punished because someone pulled 18 out of their asshole in some committee meeting once, probably by reading off the bottle of Scotch he was drinking. Imaginary numbers are much more important that real people or society. WE MUST ENFORCE OUR NUMBERS!

18 has been the age of adulthood since at least 1971. The basis of that assholeishness is in the 26th amendment.

Radioactive Ass:doglover: But the 18 year old MUST be punished because someone pulled 18 out of their asshole in some committee meeting once, probably by reading off the bottle of Scotch he was drinking. Imaginary numbers are much more important that real people or society. WE MUST ENFORCE OUR NUMBERS!

18 has been the age of adulthood since at least 1971. The basis of that assholeishness is in the 26th amendment.

Idiot.

And the 26th Amendment arose from the Viet Nam protesters who argued, "If an 18 year-old can be drafted, why can't we vote your warmongering motherfarkers out of office?"

Based on all the information released, I have. The worst if it to me is the disinformation campaign Kate Hunt's parent's have been spreading. If it was factual, it would be clearly parents attempting to defend their child, but the sheer distortion of it, the callous manipulation, is pretty sickening. If it succeeds, it will be the model for every child molester defense from here on out.

Based on all the information released, I have. The worst if it to me is the disinformation campaign Kate Hunt's parent's have been spreading. If it was factual, it would be clearly parents attempting to defend their child, but the sheer distortion of it, the callous manipulation, is pretty sickening. If it succeeds, it will be the model for every child molester defense from here on out.

Okay since you seem so well-informed (cough CNN) what lies that can be proven to be lies have been told by the older girls family?

Based on all the information released, I have. The worst if it to me is the disinformation campaign Kate Hunt's parent's have been spreading. If it was factual, it would be clearly parents attempting to defend their child, but the sheer distortion of it, the callous manipulation, is pretty sickening. If it succeeds, it will be the model for every child molester defense from here on out.

Okay since you seem so well-informed (cough CNN) what lies that can be proven to be lies have been told by the older girls family?

age, the whole 17 and 15 thing. The "waited till she turned 18 thing." There is zero proof that charges were pressed because of homophobia.

BarkingUnicorn:And the 26th Amendment arose from the Viet Nam protesters who argued, "If an 18 year-old can be drafted, why can't we vote your warmongering motherfarkers out of office?"

Goddam hippies...

I don't dispute that and Eisenhower was the first to seriously propose it in the mid 50's, not the protesters. I happen to agree with the choice of 18 to vote. At that age one should be aware enough to know the issues or to know that you don't know enough and to abstain until you do. This girl should have known better than to chase after 14 year old tail. Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand with each other.

Based on all the information released, I have. The worst if it to me is the disinformation campaign Kate Hunt's parent's have been spreading. If it was factual, it would be clearly parents attempting to defend their child, but the sheer distortion of it, the callous manipulation, is pretty sickening. If it succeeds, it will be the model for every child molester defense from here on out.

Okay since you seem so well-informed (cough CNN) what lies that can be proven to be lies have been told by the older girls family?

From the Free Kate Change.org petition:My daughter Kaitlyn is a wonderful 18-year-old who is not guilty of anything other than a high school romance, but is being prosecuted for 2 felony counts of "lewd and lascivious battery on a child 12--16 years of age," because she has a girlfriend who is 15. Lie #1 - her victim was 14 at the time

Kailtyn's girlfriend's parents are pressing charges because they are against the same-sex relationship, Lie #2 the Smith's have stated they were opposed to the age difference only even though their daughter has stated that this is a consensual relationship. The two girls began dating while Kaitlyn was 17 Lie #3 the statement clearly shows they met in November 2012 and were dating by around Christmas. Kaitlyn turned 18 in August 2012.but her girlfriend's parents blamed Kailtyn for their daughter's homosexuality. Lie #4 The only "blame" assigned has been for committing sexual battery on their minor daughter They waited until after Kaitlyn turned 18 and went to the police to have charges brought against her. Lie #5 Kaitlyn was already 18 when the relationship started, and they were told twice to keep their daughter from molesting the younger girl

Kaitlyn was a highly respected student at Florida's Sebastian River High School with good grades and participation in cheerleading, basketball and chorus. She was even voted "most school spirit." Now she's been expelled from school Lie #6, Kate was transferred to a different school but not expelled and is facing serious felonies - all because she is in love. If convicted, she could end up in jail or live under house arrest, will have to register as a sex offender, and live her life as a convicted felon.

Our family will do everything we can to stop these people from ruining our daughter's promising life. This is unjust and unfair - and we need your help to stop it.

There's a half-dozen right there. Look back through the thread, every time someone dropped in with some defense of Kate that was factually incorrect, it's been traced back to the Hunt's.

hardinparamedic:And most 13 year olds play with sally palms, or experiment with a friend. When I was 13, I downloaded porn off of DALNet, but I did not go out and try to stick it into another 13 year old. They don't go out and ride the pony with other pre-teens, and especially don't go out and seek out sexual partners.

And yes, I'm serious. Overt, sexualized behavior in that age group is a major symptom of sexual abuse and /or mental illness in modern western societies.

And the sad thing is, had this been a 14 year old having sex with another 14 year old, I'd be defending it as a parental issue. Hell, if it was a 16 year old doing the same thing I wouldn't have a problem with it, and the laws even account for it.

18? Not only should have known better, but most likely was praying on someone younger as an easy fark.

House arrest for two years, no felony conviction, and no requirement to register as a sex offender? I understand the want to fight for a statement, but I have to say that in that position, I might just take the deal.

Based on all the information released, I have. The worst if it to me is the disinformation campaign Kate Hunt's parent's have been spreading. If it was factual, it would be clearly parents attempting to defend their child, but the sheer distortion of it, the callous manipulation, is pretty sickening. If it succeeds, it will be the model for every child molester defense from here on out.

Okay since you seem so well-informed (cough CNN) what lies that can be proven to be lies have been told by the older girls family?

age, the whole 17 and 15 thing. The "waited till she turned 18 thing." There is zero proof that charges were pressed because of homophobia.

And your proof that it happened that way is because of a cops affidavit, maybe? Thank goodness I've never been lied to or misled by cops before.

Based on all the information released, I have. The worst if it to me is the disinformation campaign Kate Hunt's parent's have been spreading. If it was factual, it would be clearly parents attempting to defend their child, but the sheer distortion of it, the callous manipulation, is pretty sickening. If it succeeds, it will be the model for every child molester defense from here on out.

Okay since you seem so well-informed (cough CNN) what lies that can be proven to be lies have been told by the older girls family?

age, the whole 17 and 15 thing. The "waited till she turned 18 thing." There is zero proof that charges were pressed because of homophobia.

And your proof that it happened that way is because of a cops affidavit, maybe? Thank goodness I've never been lied to or misled by cops before.

tinfoil-hat maggie:And your proof that it happened that way is because of a cops affidavit, maybe? Thank goodness I've never been lied to or misled by cops before.

Oh for farks sake, did you read the affidavit? It's the girls statements!

It's not a conspiracy to jack up some poor little lesbian girl, it's the last desperate act of parents trying to protect their minor daughter from a predator. They've tried every recourse available, the Hunt's practically kidnapped their daughter in response.

This isn't Islam. It's the death cult within Islam called Wahhabism. You see it in Saudi Arabia, you see it with Al-Qaeda, you see it with the Taliban, You see it with Hamas, You see it in Pakistan, you see it with The Egyptian Brotherhood, you see it with Abu Sayyaf. You don't see it in Turkey. You don't see it in the Balkans. You don't see it in Jordan. You don't see it in the majority of the Ummah worldwide.

muck4doo:This isn't Islam. It's the death cult within Islam called Wahhabism. You see it in Saudi Arabia, you see it with Al-Qaeda, you see it with the Taliban, You see it with Hamas, You see it in Pakistan, you see it with The Egyptian Brotherhood, you see it with Abu Sayyaf. You don't see it in Turkey. You don't see it in the Balkans. You don't see it in Jordan. You don't see it in the majority of the Ummah worldwide.

muck4doo:This isn't Islam. It's the death cult within Islam called Wahhabism. You see it in Saudi Arabia, you see it with Al-Qaeda, you see it with the Taliban, You see it with Hamas, You see it in Pakistan, you see it with The Egyptian Brotherhood, you see it with Abu Sayyaf. You don't see it in Turkey. You don't see it in the Balkans. You don't see it in Jordan. You don't see it in the majority of the Ummah worldwide.

Whelp. Either I'm in the wrong thread, or we've just gone FULL retard.

Boojum2k:tinfoil-hat maggie: And your proof that it happened that way is because of a cops affidavit, maybe? Thank goodness I've never been lied to or misled by cops before.

Oh for farks sake, did you read the affidavit? It's the girls statements!

It's not a conspiracy to jack up some poor little lesbian girl, it's the last desperate act of parents trying to protect their minor daughter from a predator. They've tried every recourse available, the Hunt's practically kidnapped their daughter in response.

Let's make this purposefully clear, based on the Affidavit: The Hunt girl aided her daughter in running away from home, then had sex with her after her guardians had told her to stay away.

After she decided to tell the entire school what was going on, and get her "love" harassed ruthlessly by everyone.

After she was 18.While the girl was still 14.

Based on the series of events in the Affidavit, she's lucky the DA's only charging her with statutory rape.