No, you didn't say Alonso sucked, you claimed he was beating the Benettons.

In reality he finished DEAD LAST. He didn't even beat his own teammate, much less than Benettons. Like Webber in the Mindardi, Alonso's rookie year best finish of the season was 10th in a race where 11th place was a DNF.

I'm not going to bother with the rest until you get a better grip on reality there. At this point I have to assume you have no idea what you originally said and you're just making things up as you go, changing your claims and views to match the moment. When you can decide on what you actually believe in and can stick to those beliefs, let me know and we'll discuss things from there.

there are 2 reasons, and 2 reasons alone that explain why there is such a difference in performance.

1. vettel is just that much better than webber. even when he was in his prime, webber wasn't much more than a good driver.
2. webber is long past his best, he was on the downhill slope when vettel joined red bull, once you get past a certain age, you have to train harder, for longer just to keep up. it's one of the reasons why any sportsman retires. at the end of the day, the mind is always willing, but the body is unable.

the chassis given to both drivers is identical, and are scrutinized before each event by race stewards to make sure so. the people who are appointed to do the scrutinizing aren't idiots, if there was any evidence to suggest that both cars were fundamentally different, they would spot it as soon as they saw it.

the only thing different, is set up, and this is the only area where vettel could be given an advantage.

what else also added to the illusion of difference in speed, is that vettel had a clear track in front of him for practically the entire race, webber was stuck in the pack for most of it.

cars fighting for position lose a $#@! load of time because the drivers are focusing on each other and not the road ahead so much.

Last edited by Surebrec; 09-23-2013 at 16:44.

Don't waste your words I don't need anything from you.
I don't care where you've been or what you plan to do.
I am the resurrection and I am the light.
I couldn't ever bring myself to hate you as I'd like.

there are 2 reasons, and 2 reasons alone that explain why there is such a difference in performance.

1. vettel is just that much better than webber. even when he was in his prime, webber wasn't much more than a good driver.
2. webber is long past his best, he was on the downhill slope when vettel joined red bull, once you get past a certain age, you have to train harder, for longer just to keep up. it's one of the reasons why any sportsman retires. at the end of the day, the mind is always willing, but the body is unable.

the chassis given to both drivers is identical, and are scrutinized before each event by race stewards to make sure so. the people who are appointed to do the scrutinizing aren't idiots, if there was any evidence to suggest that both cars were fundamentally different, they would spot it as soon as they saw it.

the only thing different, is set up, and this is the only area where vettel could be given an advantage.

what else also added to the illusion of difference in speed, is that vettel had a clear track in front of him for practically the entire race, webber was stuck in the pack for most of it.

cars fighting for position lose a $#@! load of time because the drivers are focusing on each other and not the road ahead so much.

I was talking about the other teams.

Originally Posted by BBK..

Another thing to add. The red bulls aerodynamics are highly sensitive. They were pretty much designed to have nothing but clean air so when out front they do really, really well.

Can some explain to a dumb ass like me why everyone is saying with the engine changes it will wipe out the newey effect and make Merc the car to beat?

i don't know about the engine change making much of a difference, but Mercedes...or more precisely, the AMG branch, specialise in High-performance engines.

The current Mercedes engine is by far the strongest on the circuit. However, that comes with a penalty of higher fuel loads at the start of the race...which means a slower car initially.

amongst the changes for next season are several that impact the design of the engine.
For starters, Fuel capacity is restricted to 100L at the start of each race. Also, fuel flow to engine will be restricted to 100kg/h over 10,000 RPM (iirc) - in the name of "fuel efficiency" (scoffs).

Also, KERS will become part of the engine essentially, and renamed ERS-K. This too effects its design.

car design changes that could take the edge of the newey effect are;
No more 'false' camera mount usage. on the front of the RedBull, Newey exploits the camera mounts by having them part of the nose cone design.

Exhaust gasses are now required to exit above the side pods. Meaning little gain from blowing the rear diffuser....of which the Red Bull is simply leagues ahead.

Also, Teams will get a earlier look as Newey's Design next year (if they're the lazy sort) as testing will take place in January. So they get some extra time to make changes if needed.

F1 is coming to PS4/XBO next year but Codemasters insisted that F1 on nextgen consoles will run at full 60FPS im not buying this years copy because 2011 for me was an is still the best 1 PS3. an this years title will not be coming to PS4/XBO so don't hold your hopes up for that.

Don't waste your words I don't need anything from you.
I don't care where you've been or what you plan to do.
I am the resurrection and I am the light.
I couldn't ever bring myself to hate you as I'd like.

Started my new season with Lotus (after the game lost my save and on doing my YDT again Lotus offered me a seat!)

So first race, Australia Free Practice. I was using Hulkenburg to slipstream down the main straight and I got my breaking zone massively wrong on Turn 1 through to turn 2. Went into the gravel trap then Hulkenburg broke my rear...

Putting a 1988 Ferrari around Brands Hatch. The old cars sound so damn good and feel really fun to drive. Such a beautiful game.

i don't know about the engine change making much of a difference, but Mercedes...or more precisely, the AMG branch, specialise in High-performance engines.

And.............

Let me ask you this...

Have you ever noticed that Infiniti emblem on the nose of the Red Bull? Infiniti is owned by Nissan. Do you think it's an accident that a Nissan sponsorship is on a Renault powered car? The Renault/Nissan global partnership has existed since the 1980s.

Now, who makes the fastest V6 turbo on the planet right now? I'll give you a hint here, the GTR is not a Mercedes.

Nissan has nearly 40 years experience making and racing turbo V6 engines. Renault/Nissan both sponsor and provide the engine for Vettel's car. Just how many years experience does Mercedes have producing turbo V6 racing engines?

And as for the rest of the car, do you really think Newey is going to forget how to design cars? Rule changes have never stopped him before. He's made WDC winning V12, V10, and V8 cars, why would that suddenly stop just because they changed to a V6?

Have you ever noticed that Infiniti emblem on the nose of the Red Bull? Infiniti is owned by Nissan. Do you think it's an accident that a Nissan sponsorship is on a Renault powered car? The Renault/Nissan global partnership has existed since the 1980s.

Now, who makes the fastest V6 turbo on the planet right now? I'll give you a hint here, the GTR is not a Mercedes.

Nissan has nearly 40 years experience making and racing turbo V6 engines. Renault/Nissan both sponsor and provide the engine for Vettel's car. Just how many years experience does Mercedes have producing turbo V6 racing engines?

And as for the rest of the car, do you really think Newey is going to forget how to design cars? Rule changes have never stopped him before. He's made WDC winning V12, V10, and V8 cars, why would that suddenly stop just because they changed to a V6?

that's the most absurd reasoning i've ever seen to justify pedigree.

by the same reasoning, Ferrari should be the fastest car on the grid by virtue of them being in F1 longer than any other team. Sorry, but time spent in the business has little effect when working at this level. There's a reason R&D budgets are so high.

also, i'd like you to quote me saying the Newey will forget how to make a car? taking off 'the edge', in no way imparts that ridiculous notion.

as a point of contention, by the tone of your post i really don't care to hear your response tbh. there's little in the form of discussion if stuff is being made up out of thin air.

I recorded the full race off Sky and hadn't touched tV or internet since waking up, had some lunch and got a couple of beers out the fridge and sat down to watch the recording at around 3pm.
Turned the TV on and what do I see? The end of the highlights on BBC 1 showing Vettel as the winner. FARRRRKKKK Queue.

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