The Value Of Makeup Is Declining

Like anyone would beI am flattered by your fascination with meLike any hot blooded womanI have simply wanted an object to crave
– “Uninvited”

Women overestimate, and men underestimate, the impact makeup has on women’s looks. For the majority of women, expertly applied makeup adds half a point to 1 point to their facial attractiveness. A minority benefits from a generous 2 point increase to their beauty ranking. A few very ugly women see no improvement (lipstick on a pig syndrome). And a very few odd-looking catwalk models with angular, bony faces can see incredible leaps of beauty from makeup (and favorable lighting), sometimes on the order of a 4 or 5 point jump up the looks scale.

The average woman, of course, thinks that makeup conceals all her flaws (it doesn’t, particularly flaws arising from asymmetry or masculinized features, such as manjaws) and beautifies her beyond her relative beauty ranking in the general female population. The average man, who, it should be noted, has little experience bedding a lot of pretty women, thinks women won’t look very different in the morning, sans makeup. These neophyte men are often shocked by the difference dim light and eye shadow can play on their perception. Makeup may only grant a one point improvement to women, but one point is serious business on a ten point scale.

Since nearly all women use makeup on a regular or semi-regular basis, the advantage any one woman gets from makeup is that it allows her to stay in the game. Not using makeup is akin to walking into a heated mating environment with curlers in her hair and bits of tissue paper on her freshly popped zits. She’s gotta keep up with the Janeses. Unless she is part of the 1% of women with unearthly natural beauty that shines better without makeup, going out in public without her “face” on is accepting a severe handicap to her SMV.

So makeup does give women a nontrivial boost to their absolute SMV, if not their relative SMV. This matters, because absolute female beauty is more important than relative female beauty for attracting men. A plain jane in a roomful of warpigs will doubtless earn more male attention, but she still won’t be any man’s ideal mate. Men have the golden ratio embedded in their brains, and a less ugly girl is not the same as a pretty girl.

We know makeup has mating value for women, else they wouldn’t spend billions caking themselves in it. But does makeup have less value today than it did in the recent past? Think about the typical woman’s dating life 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago. She lived with her parents until she got married. Long courtships were the norm. She was dropped off at home by her date before the night was out. If there was a morning after, it usually meant wedding nuptials were exchanged the day before. If there was premarital sex, it happened under conditions (read: non-cohabitating) that ensured the woman would still be made up post-coitus.

The effect of this dating system was that men would hardly ever see the women they dated *without* their makeup on. Many a man didn’t see the honest, true woman he was dating/sexing until he put a ring on it. The women of yore benefited from this system that allowed them to avoid “just being themselves” just long enough to entrap entranced men in lifelong servitude.

Fast forward to today. Morning afters happen within weeks, sometimes within hours, of meeting a woman. This means men are seeing women in all their natural glory long before any marital vows are whispered about. That hot babe you wanted to fuck so badly the night before has morphed into a moldy loaf of bread with half her face mashed into a wrinkled mess in your pillow. The illusion shattered, a relationship with this creature has suddenly seemed a lot less inviting.

The power of makeup is not what it used to be, for the simple reason that men are seeing women without their makeup sooner, and more often. This unpainted state of affairs has hit cougars and marginal girls the hardest, for whom makeup is their last salvation from a life of depressing singledom.

Is the denuded woman’s face her worst foe? A good case can be made that a culture stripped of its illusory power of makeup has contributed to falling marriage rates and delayed marriage and men in general not giving a flying fuck about impressing women. Yeah, maybe it’s not a major contributor, (female obesity would claim the corpulent crown as a major contributor), but it could play a role. The story of decivilizing cultures is partly the story of women ousted from their vaunted position in society as sublime muses for men’s hearts.

PS Occasionally a dummy feminist hater (but i repeat myself thricely!) will stroll in this happy cunting ground claiming makeup allows her to fool men that she’s hotter than she is, and to get what she wants from them, even marriage. I always respond that such a claim conveniently overlooks the reality of the morning after. You can dye, but you can’t hide…

What??? Unless she was wearing makeup worthy of Hollywood special effects, how could you have not known? She must’ve been ugly with makeup and uglier without makeup.

I prefer my women with a touch of makeup. It reflects femininity and effort. Makeup is the female equivalent of a suit: Just looking at how someone wears it, you can easily detect their class and self-worth.

But the majority of comments here are anti-makeup, which proves what I see everyday in real life: American men have no problem putting up with fat, frumpy, chicks in flip-flops and sweat pants.

“I prefer my women with a touch of makeup. It reflects femininity and effort. Makeup is the female equivalent of a suit: Just looking at how someone wears it, you can easily detect their class and self-worth.”

Hear, Hear!
A man who really likes femininity.

“American men have no problem putting up with fat, frumpy, chicks in flip-flops and sweat pants.”

This is what I said. These men had leftist notions of the differences between males and females penetrate their thinking. They either like frumpy or tomboyish.

That’s because their pictures are airbrushed or photoshopped. Make up can’t make a girl look that much better, but photoshop can. That’s why older celebs still look good in their 40s when the rest of the 40s+ population deosn’t still look that good. It’s airbrushing. What’s more, the older a woman gets the worse make up looks. It gets into all the wrinkles and makes them even more pronounced. That’s when photoshopping is very useful.

Sometimes I dance with a waitress who is also a bikini model and she actually looks better in person than she does in her magazine picture. She’s 5’2, easily a 9+ and I feel like I’m dancing with Hispanic Barbie come to life. She really does look like a doll. If she’s wearing any makeup besides eyeshadow, I can’t see it, not even in extreme close-up.

You can’t tell in dim lights. But if she were wearing foundation out in the sum you’d be able to tell, unless she is extremely young (like in her teens) and it’s blended very well with moisturizes beneath the foundation, but then her face would look real shiny and that causes other issues. Mate finish shows up in lights, that’s why it’s airbrushed. It’s even worse for older women, as I mentioned.

BTW, a bikini model spends a lot of time in the sun, I doubt she doesn’t have some sun damage already. Therefore, if you saw her in the sun with her full coverup, you’d notice every line. Hey, but don’t worry about the makeup she wears. As long as she has a killer figure, nice features, and relatively good skin, she is a winner. No woman has that kind of allure to her that trumps up her mystiques without some work, be thankful it’s makeup and not plastic surgery, although some men don’t mind if she had her boobs enlarged.

One thing I’ve noticed is that people always look better in 3D real life than in any but the highest-quality 2D pictures. The way I see it, airbrushing is simply trying to put a 3D real-life effect on the image.

Lighting is a big part of it. Certain brassy lighting makes you look horrible. White lights are better. Of course, dimmed lighting makes everyone hot, not to mention put you in the mood for romance. Photographers know that and use it to make their pix alluring. Then add Photoshop touch up, and you have a 45-year old looking like 25. Why do you think older stars in their 40s are still getting offers to do Vogue covers? Because the women can still be made to look youthful and aluring enough. The only one who has been very honest about herself is Cindy Crawford. She said she doesn’t look like this in real life. Definitely, should get points for being honest. Of course, I already know that, but most people don’t have inclination what photographers can do with lighting, airbrushing, and makeup skillfully applied.

That’s true. I had drinks with Meg Ryan and John Dickhead Mellencamp about six months ago and to put it kindly, the old gray mare ain’t what she used to be. She looks a LOT better in pictures than she does in person. In a way it was a little sad – I was visualizing her as Mrs. Goose, saying “Take me to bed or lose me forever!” and she looked more like Charlize Theron playing the murderous hooker from Florida.

@ NiteLily – Around these parts, everyone spends a lot of time in the sun. It’s kinda hard not to. This girl is 28 (2 kids + boyfriend, I tried…) and needs no tanning booth, she’s naturally brown. The lights aren’t that dim, and there does not seem to be anything on her skin except maybe moisturizer.

I actually subtract points for make-up primarily to get a “truer” reading – and I don’t like liars. Also, her skin will be horrible if she’s been putting on make-up for years – especially if she did it as a teen. Most of the women that I tend to find attractive well into their 30’s have all been the type that doesn’t wear makeup except on very special occasions.

So, in my book the best are the young ones who do not wear makeup and are still attractive, as they will clean up nice… This is another reason why I tend not to like meeting women in clubs.

Clear stuff and moisturizers are okay. But possession of eyeshadow with intent to use it should be punishable by 25 years to life. Same thing with lipstick and the weird colors they use for nail polish now. If I were in the market now, they’d be absolute dealbreakers for me, because they suggest a major character flaw, like self-esteem or narcissism issues. At the very least they show that the girl lacks aesthetic judgment.

Everyone I’ve dated for any length of time didn’t use the visible stuff.
A girl with a nice facial structure doesn’t need that stuff.. A girl with character won’t use it on principle.

I dress modestly, almost never wear makeup, don’t have any piercings, wear my hair long and dye free… But some bright lipstick colors once in a while make you look different specially if you are on an LTR. It can be a nice touch, like an accesory that gives you a different appareance. Girl LTR name includes being a bit different (with things that are naturally flattering) so that your SO is never bored and monogamy is not so hard since your look makes you a bit different from the routine.

Biggest problem with makeup: it’s not skin. When you bed a woman wearing heavy makeup you’ve got the awful taste of makeup in your mouth as soon as you kiss her. The gritty sensation of powders, the sticky greasiness of lipstick. The cloying reek of perfume.

Women wear makeup because it works. If done right, it accentuates the the things men are wired to notice and like (bright eyes, flushed cheeks, etc.).

If it didn’t work it would have died out by now.

Most guys would prefer a “natural beauty” – in the sense they’d prefer the girl always looked as hot as a hot girl in makeup, just without wearing makeup. They also occasionally say this to mean “I don’t want to date a model-type who has a weird face that photographs really well in stage makeup.”

Guys who go on about the natural look usually are just unsettled by hot women who know how to fully harness their hotness via clothes, makeup, sensuality, because in their mind that means “slutty” or “so sexual I don’t know if I can hold on to her.”

I usually take it as a sign of bravado covering for faulty gamesmanship when I hear that. “I don’t want that smoking hot girl… look at all her makeup!”

Well, men have been conditioned to look for the magazine cover girl because let’s face it, women looks hot in magazines. So when men see a woman who is all made up looking hot they pursue. The issue is if she looks much different without make up; that’s when it becomes a problem for the girl.

With makeup, you can’t hide bad facial features or acne blemishes. The only things you can do is hide uneven skin tone, and exaggerate cheekbones, eyes, and lips to make them pop out more. You still have to have nice features, nice sliky long hair, and a nice figure to look hot.

Sorry, make up can’t fool men all that much. The only time a woman looks much better with make up than her true self is in magazines where those picture are airbrushed or photoshopped. That explains why so many celebrities look so much different without their make up, especially older ones. All magazines use airbrushing. That’s their secret.

“Guys who go on about the natural look usually are just unsettled by hot women who know how to fully harness their hotness via clothes, makeup, sensuality, because in their mind that means “slutty” or “so sexual I don’t know if I can hold on to her.”

BINGO!!!

And I will add, also expensive. Men think women like this cost a fortune, because they like fashion, they wear it well, and it will be very hard to “support” a woman like this if it leads to marriage. That’s why they always use the cliché “I like the girl next door” or “down to earth women.” Anyway, those kinds of men are either cheap, crybabies, or lack self-confidence.

Guys who go on about the natural look usually are just unsettled by hot women who know how to fully harness their hotness via clothes, makeup, sensuality, because in their mind that means “slutty” or “so sexual I don’t know if I can hold on to her.”

I usually take it as a sign of bravado covering for faulty gamesmanship when I hear that. “I don’t want that smoking hot girl… look at all her makeup!”

Outhouse psychology… sometimes a cigar is merely a cigar, and a man doesn’t find the painted look all that sexy.

And let’s face it, women in general are high maintenance enough… how much more when the make-up, clothes, shoes, and weekly hairdresser bills would feed a small village.

Let alone the attention mentality… and hoo, boy, when the wall starts approaching… you haven’t seen neuroses! Can you say Marilyn Monroe, Inger Stevens, et. al.?

“If not wanting to see a duke’s ransom of once-worn shoes in the closet makes me cheap then I, your honor, am guilty.”

LOL! That’s not after you see the closet. It’s the decision you make when you see a hot girl in a party who knows how to dress (sexy, not slutty) to extenuate her assets.

Besides, who said you have to wear only expensive designer clothing to look hot? If you have a hot figure, everything looks good on you, even a little black dress you buy for 35 bucks and stilettos you get for $49. There are so many clothing labels that mimic designers without taking you to the poorhouse. Some women know how to dress hot and relatively inexpensively. I doubt, most men would date women that are not stylish and look like they belong on the farm with their flip-flops and sweatpants. Some common sense need be exercised.

And I will add, also expensive. Men think women like this cost a fortune, because they like fashion, they wear it well, and it will be very hard to “support” a woman like this if it leads to marriage. ””””””””””””

why you buy her a salon and save the 2k a month she can go get her hair taken care of or whatever for free

If you have a hot figure, everything looks good on you, even a little black dress you buy for 35 bucks and stilettos you get for $49. I doubt, most men would date women that are not stylish and look like they belong on the farm with their flip-flops and sweatpants. Some common sense need be exercised.

Common sense, as in realizing that the alternatives to black sheath and stilettos isn’t just flip-flogs and sweatpants?

I would say that it also sends certain signals. A woman who makes an effort to look good/slutty (that’s kind of interchangeable) presumably has a certain reason: She wants attention, preferably male attention. So if you get “dolled up”, that just sends the signal that you might fancy a shag, and that you feel the need to use cheap special effects might suggest a certain level of desperation.

Yes, what these guys are forgetting is that even “natural” beauties tend to use expensive skin creams and products to maintain that look. A woman in her absolute natural state (unshowered, unshaved, no deodorant) is a hairy, stinky primate like any other.

Men might differ in how MUCH they want their women to conform to the painted doll ideal, but I don’t know any men besides hippies who want a completely natural woman. All the moralizing seems a bit silly when it’s just a matter of degrees.

I dropped a girl I was seeing for two months because she said she would never spend two nights in a row camping. The current girl loves it and still somehow manages to look cute and smell good after two days.

Women are not built for camping. Most women can’t stand not showing for a couple of days. Men do better the no-showing stuff. Men and women are not the same, and there is nothing wrong with recognizing the fact. I am displeased when I hear men complaining about women not liking to do ALL their men stuff. It’s one thing going to the ballgame with you, or getting on your motorcycle for a ride, but it can be another thing with camping. If a guy gets irked with me because I don’t want to spend a couple of nights camping with him in nowhere, he isn’t right for me. If you want to date a mirror image of yourself, go right ahead, I am not a guy and never will be. Either you understand that or goodbye. I bet you, she was happy about you breaking up with her if that’s what it took for you.

“The current girl loves it and still somehow manages to look cute and smell good after two days.”
.
Yeah, until you find something superficially wrong with her and drop her too like a hot potato. LOL! You’re a ticking time bomb.

Camping is something anyone can enjoy. All you’re doing is sleeping outside or in a tent and cooking/drinking around a fire. How fucking hard is that? If you can’t be away from modern comforts for more than 48 hours that leads me to believe you’re fussy and that your personality is mostly comprised of dog shit.

If it’s a place I like, and with a man I am crazy about like my husband, then yes. A BF who I don’t know from one day to the next his motives, probably not.

You don’t have to share every activity you like doing with your buddies, also with your girl to be compatible. That’s superficial. Being a good match with someone is first having attraction to them, and second having the same dreams and aspirations, shared values on money, sex, politics and religion (even if you are of different religions that can still work if you have the same outlook), similar backgrounds, loyally, being able to have lots of interesting conversation and not getting tired of the mental and spiritual stimulation you provide each other, etc… Thing like that, not whether or not she enjoys camping.

If your woman doesn’t like a certain activity you enjoy, it’s not the end of the world and enough reason to break it up with her. If she doesn’t like a lot of what you like to do, then it could be more of a problem. It’s all about prioritizing what’s important, as well as compromising when you have an otherwise good connection with someone. But look, to each his own.

It’s less about enjoying camping, than about putting up with it for her guy. If she won’t, regardless of whether she likes it or not, you’ve got some alphatude problems wrt her. Which you should either fix, or move on.

As an aside, camping, paticularly with women who are not used to it, does require her to relinquish control and trust her man, which is a good dynamic for any relationship; as well as a good test of whether she really views him as much of a man i the firs place.

You raised some good points, especially on women who are not used to it having to relinquish control and trust her man. Whether she likes camping or not, it could be a good exercise for the relationship. I have to agree on that point. It all depends then on how he introduces it to her. I just don’t like crybabies when they don’t get their way and feel they need to break up with a girl because they can’t take the heat. An Alpha knows how to get her to see things his way, and ultimately to please him.

You must believe that Eve was made from Adam’s rib, and that the Garden of Eden also contained a luxury condo. Yeah, I know, they left that part out of the old testament, and high maintenance bitches like yourself have been whining about camping ever since.

No camping for women, huh. Well tell that to the hunter-gatherer women the world over from time immemorial who “camped” their entire lives.

Oh, and my #1 and #3 dames are professional dancers, as feminine as they come, and they LOVE camping. We all went together this summer, more than a few times, it was epic. It was car camping, but then again, I’m not chugging that double-thickness king-sized air mattress into the backcountry. Not that we were sleeping much.

Even in my blue-pill days, my most girly-girl, uber-sexy, makeup-wearing, gold-digging, ultra-bitchy, super hot, mega high maintenance ex fiance (who later dumped my beta ass) would go camping with me. Granted, she’d whine about being cold, even in summer, but she camped with me all over the western US. And that was when I was a beta. Now, girls beg me to take them camping, to go to hot springs, to go to the desert to look at stars, and other excellent adventures.

You, NiteLily, are simply a high maintenance floozy. Won’t sleep in a tent, but I bet you’ll sleep in a different guy’s bed every week. I wouldn’t fuck you with King A’s dick and Greg Elliot pushing.

Finally, I am getting some action and making one of you freak out, exploding with anger, lol I love it.

Aren’t we taking this a bit too seriously? You never know; maybe you are that man that can tantalize me using his masculine powers and get me to go camping with him, so why burn your bridges? After all, how do you know I was talking about you necessarily? Honestly, you sound a bit too much like those delusional old hags that take everything said about women waaaaay too seriously, and internalize it about themselves because they are so insecure. Chill out baby!

Nitelily, disinterest is not anger, sweet cheeks. The bit about “we” taking things too seriously is quite naff. *You* might be taking things to seriously, I’m just having fun tooling you. But I can’t fault you for not knowing that, you must have a touch of the Asperger’s. Aspies sometimes have trouble with telling other people’s emotions. And if you want to go camping with me, you’ll have to do better than that.

Interestingly, a high percentage of female online ‘dating’ profiles mention things like camping, fishing, etc. as hobbies/favorite activities. Which is, of course, bullshit. I’ve known maybe a handful of girls in all my life who actually did enjoy camping, but I wouldn’t want to share a tent or sleeping bag with any of them. Also, not all camping is created equal. Could mean an RV with plasma-screen TV. Could mean setting up one of those canvas gazebos from K-Mart for the day – before spending the night at La Quinta. Could mean a pup tent in freezing rain and 50 mph winds on a mountainside. Might also mean – my personal favorite – being kicked awake at 3 a.m. by French police demanding to see your papers.

Sometimes it also depends on if the girl was raised in country, in the South (where I’m from and a lot of women can fish or camp) or Urban areas. Country women and women raised in rural areas are more likely to camp or fish.

Of course, it’s bullshit if they say they like camping in their profiles; they just want to appeal to guys because they know guys like camping. But honestly, these women are fools because some men might take them up on it and they are going to look like complete flakes if they don’t follow through. That’s why it’s best to be as honest as possible about yourself and your habits on these profiles. A guy with potential is not going to skip your profile because you don’t like camping. If guys are scoring females based on their hobbies, they are either gay or the leftist type whose radical mom told him to look for a tomboys because they don’t have large carbon footprint (they don’t eat meat, don’t shower as often, don’t flash the toilette as much, don’t use sanitary products, don’t wear leather, don’t wear makeup or use hair products that add to the carbon foot garbage) and don’t cost any money to “upkeep”; tomboys are cheap dates. In any case, real men score women based on their looks in those profiles, not their hobbies. In addition, you’re a right about all camping not created equal.

In addition, you’re a right about all camping not created equal.
 An RV with plasma-screen TV – me like
 Setting up one of those canvas gazebos from K-Mart for the day – before spending the night at La Quinta – like too.
• Pup tent in freezing rain and 50 mph winds on a mountainside – me not like so much

That is partly why negroes don’t camp — seeking out “nature” is obviously a response to the disappearance of it. But there are two reasons negroes don’t camp: economic and mental. They can’t afford it and they aren’t moved by it.

Natural environment doesn’t mean what you think. It rather means harsh tribal culture and severe punishment for deviant behavior. Prison doesn’t cut it for niggers. They have to risk losing an arm or losing their head to think twice before doing stupid shit.

Same goes with arabs. It’s blatant in the dfference between arabs in Europe and North Africa. Niggers and arabs are rather well-behaved in their native countries where the legal and political framework has been engineered to tame them. But they behave like wild animals in whitey’s civilized society.

Squirrels are rodents, so they are diseases ridden. Hate to throw water on your fire, but really, cleanliness and eating disease-free foods are high on my list. If it makes me high maintenance, I am guilty as charged.

A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away……tents on the beach….tourist girls everywhere….baguettes for breakfast (which turn into baseball bats by noon)….trying to change money unfamilar to them at a tiny local bank…..(sigh)Where was I? Oh yes:Camping. I just read a great article from a British paper reporting on a family who could no longer afford rent and started living in a tent. Even in the winter, which isn’t too terribly harsh in most of Britain, but still chilly(and plenty wet) enough to make most people not want to do that sort of thing. They even had a baby in there with them and no, they are not lowlives……

I can’t take any offense or issue to the 1 point increase on the beauty scale, but where a lot of guys and gals fail here is that they are absolutely crazy about how they rate beauty.

I know plenty of guys with AVERAGE girlfriends who think the women are 7s (in makeup). They’re average in makeup (5s) and probably below average without it (4s).

If a gal is naturally a 7, makeup MIGHT raise her to a 7.5. Might. There’s no way she’ll go from a 7 to an 8 in beauty. Maybe, maybe if she has a professional airbrush her. Maybe.

The range where makeup is ideal is in the average range of women (4-6). I have a customer of mine who comes in frequently to one of my shops who is a 6 (I’ve seen her without makeup) but turns into a 7 when she visits dolled up. My buddy with the 4 girlfriend is proof of the 1 point gain for average women.

If you’re below average (1-3) makeup won’t help. The manjaw CAN be airbrushed away in photos, but not in reality. If you’re above average (7-10), makeup won’t change much because the beauty is already there.

Still, we need to stop giving women an extra point or two just because we haven’t had sex in a few days. Let’s be honest going forward: most women are 4-6. The 7 you see in a bar at 11pm at night is probably a 6 without makeup and dark lighting.

Some women do benefit more that .5 points from makeup. Especially as they age. And some women do manage to stay 7s into above peak age. Particularly here in Tinseltown. But the combination of beauty the world pay to watch, and some of the top makeup artists available dolling you up, is perhaps outlier.

My woman does not wear makeup. She uses expensive creams, moisturizers, and whatnot, but never makeup. The two or three times I’ve seen her face painted (weddings), I told her she looked trashy. She doesn’t benefit from makeup, just as skimpy and revealing clothing isn’t necessary to notice her figure…..men can recognize a good-looking woman with a nice body even if she’s wearing a burlap sack. I’m not impressed with girls who show a lot of skin; a modestly dressed woman who is secure with her natural beauty is more enticing. This doesn’t mean she can’t wear tight-fitting clothing, but it shouldn’t be juvenile or crass…..no cleavage or short skirts.

If you observe women who wear a lot of makeup over time, you’ll find that the makeup actually ages their faces even worse, especially the synthetic petrochemical based products that are ubiquitous in our society. This is doubly so for women who use the extra heavy-duty type of makeup used for visual performances, so-called stage makeup– actresses, singers, performers, etc.

It’s ironic then, that the most attention-whoring women tend to age the quickest due to that lifestyle.

There are a very small number of women who spend extra to get the high end natural products, which tend to have the reverse effect. There is of course some crossover between the former & latter groups, (the performers who use the natural products when not on stage) as their vanity demands.

Bah. Most of it is excessive tanning. Why do 16 year-olds look like they’re 18 these days? Excessive tanning. Ages the skin. This is good for guys (as long as you don’t turn orange), and good for underage girls who want to look older.
Trouble is, the aging doesn’t stop – and sun worshipers who looked 20 at 16 look 35 at 28.
Want an example?
Donatella Versace.

Because I’m a guy and don’t care about fashion, I’ve always assumed that women are like men, and the face you see in public is their natural face. But since taking the red pill I’ve noticed that pretty much all women wear some form of make-up. Even if it’s not much, there’s always some kind of enhancement going on (Lip gloss, blush, mascara, etc.).

That being said, I guess I’ve always been able to spot the make-up wearers subconsciously, because almost every girl I’ve been with has had natural beauty and rarely wore make-up. In fact, with these girls make-up would actually be a handicap for them. This is what I prefer, because I think it’s more honest – What’s the point of being with an 8 if she becomes a 6 once the make up is off?

I love girls with hairy legs and armpits and cooters. It’s so fake when they shave all that off, god, what liars! Give me the honest truth, what’s the point of dating a woman with smooth hairless legs when if she doesn’t shave them for a few days they’ll just grow hair!

Bonus points if her nails aren’t done and she just wears baggy tunics and she smells like natural body odor. oh and dont try to fool me with your lingerie, ladies!!! Corsets, heels, push-up bras, pffft I’m too sharp to fall for THAT trickery!!

lol this thread puts into perspective your guys’ rating systems for women. No wonder you’re all banging 10s when they look like this:

Here in Los Angeles, I’ve sat in front of Mila Kunis TWICE at the movie theater. One of life’s small coincidences. Both times I recognized her from her squeaky, annoying voice before the show started, which drove me crazy when it was on That 70s Show.

Sad to say, but both times, she looked pretty ordinary (albeit with big eyes). It’s a little depressing how, today, a few years later, this fairly cute but irritating girl gets anointed The Hottest Thing Ever by the celebutard-industrial complex.

See his wife was the only woman that accepted his ring, so he married her. What’s the big deal? She sounds decent too. She wasn’t a gold digger knowing all this about him not wanting to spend any money on her beauty and she still married him.

She doesn’t cost him anything – no haircuts, highlights, pedicures, and manicures (she does her own), no gym membership (she walks in the neighborhood), no Victoria Secret lingerie (she doesn’t wear any), no makeup or perfume (she buys the drugstore brand lipstick and the like), no high heels (she wears flats and sneakers), no fitted clothes (she wears Ts and sweat pants) – and that’s how he saves lots of cash. Hey, if it works for him and he is happy with her, why disparage the dude? He’s the one sleeping with her (if they are even doing it at this point in their marriage), not you guys.

However, if he starts longing for the company of other felines, I recommend to his wify not listen to his ass and get the makeover sessions quick.

Most women don’t look hot without some work. Men are delusional if they think otherwise, and don’t have much experience with women to know any better.

Is it just the internet, or are people really this nailed into stereotypes? I don’t see much evidence of it in the meat world, but online, everyone is quick to make assumptions and projections.

And for the record, even without the constant glamming up, wives still cost plenty…. and I’ve been blessed more than most men on that account… I’ve only had to cut up ONE credit card, and that early in the marriage.

Besides, for the pussy to feel super sexy mentally, it needs some extras physically, to put it in the mood psychologically. Some Angel perfume, red lips, sexy lingerie, fishnets and black patent-leather high heels…. You know where I am going with this, right? When a woman wears something sexy, it changes her personality; it’s like she gets in character for a part and you’re her co-star/leading man. That makes the pussy even hotter and the peen rise higher.

If she hangs out at home in her T, sweatpants, and socks, you have to work harder, coax, cajole, persuade…..not to mention, you might not be as turned on as when she is in her alluring mode.

Why disparage women’s sexiness? It’s a lot better getting your woman looking and feeling hot all the time than engage in porn or cheat.

I’m mostly kidding about your wife’s and your thrift. I actually can’t disparage you that much for it. Unlike many of these single guys, you have kids and other expenses, I presume a mortgage, so one needs to be more conscientious about spending money.

My assumptions and projections are only based on plausibility. You two are an older couple, your wife is not a budding youth where spending money on clothes, shoes, and makeup will be at the top of her concerns, so of course she doesn’t bother with these sexy things I mentioned. It’s normal; nothing to scoff at.

“And for the record, even without the constant glamming up, wives still cost plenty….”

That’s very true, but don’t tell this to these guys. lol, lest they find another excuse why to engage in “that street minstrel show (they) call modern game” for the rest of their lives.

“and I’ve been blessed more than most men on that account… I’ve only had to cut up ONE credit card, and that early in the marriage..”

See, I knew she is frugal before you even confirmed it. She doesn’t spend on glamming. Meanwhile, don’t jeer at younger girls who have use for it. It’s a woman’s way. Grooming herself is how she makes herself more attractive and feminine to her man. BTW, makeup has been here a long long time, way before Max Factor in the early days of HW. The ancient Egyptian women used lots of makeup made from natural dies to make eye makeup. Makeup is a very old concept.

You didn’t hit a nerve. I just like to protect femininity from men who would turn women into frumpy or tomboys.

Here you confuse things again. There is a difference between the made-up look and wearing light makeup for every day.

The made up look you wear for an event like the Oscars.

The light makeup for every day, you wear to the office. It also has moisturizing and SPF to protect from the sun, so it’s good for your skin. Many facial creams have light tints in them.

Regarding glamming, it depends on your taste. Some men love having a hot girl on their arm, while others like “the down to earth”/ “girl next door “type.

Regarding older women, sorry glam doesn’t look that good on them, especially makeup. It accentuates every wrinkle. That’s why if women love glam, better get it out of their system before 45. The worst thing is seeing younger women taking their beauty for granted and looking frumpy, but when they hit their 40s it’s too late to enjoy their beauty and they sink into depression. That’s when the cats come in. Just sayin.

Definitely not Mila without cosmetics. That’s some envious girl’s hatchet mash-up job. Kunis is cute because of her proportion — long hair, giant eyes, and full lips on a small face — not because she has the best stylists.

Here is the definitive expose. Most of them came from a Victoria’s Secret stunt showing how principled they are by showing their “true selves” under the glam:

Not hard to find on The Google Machine. You can see models are selected for their cartoonish eyes and lips, some of them so exaggerated that they slip from remarkable to “alien” and even “grotesque.” You can also see that make-up merely enhances what they already have: the true beauties of the world can only be so uglified.

This forum could stand a better grasp of aesthetics. There are other components than the visual in a beatific experience, which is where the “eye of the beholder” error comes in. Beauty is not in the eye of the beholder, but the beholder’s perspective, expectation, memory, and experience can affect the experience almost totally.

Exactly! Photoshop. That’s what I said above. Not only they get their makeup done professionally, but the pix are also airbrushed.

But she still has nice features. What the makeup does to better her appearance is even out her skin tone, and bring out her eyes and lips. That makes a big difference. Then add to it the airbrushing and you have the angel of love in front of you. Most of you guys don’t have enough experience with women to know that, eh?

No, I didn’t realize it… I don’t play that sort of shtick… I googled Mila without makeup and that’s one of the first pics that came up and I didn’t really study it closely. Like I said above, if it is photoshopped, shame on that blog and shame of me for getting fooled.

Point remains, though, that any given Sunday you can see an 8+ turn quickly into a 5 or 6 without the full Hollywood wardrobe treatment.

Yup. There’s a big difference between washing/shaving/clipping crap off your body, and putting crap on your face. The former reveals her beauty, the latter hides her ugliness. YaReally could just as well say that beer goggles are the same as women’s hygiene, since they both increase a woman’s perceived attractiveness.

Wearing makeup to look glamorous is not a flaw. Most of you guys are confusing looking glamorous, with makeup for an everyday look. For every day, a girl needs only some lip gloss, light mascara or eye shadow, and light blush. For the Oscars, you need to look like Mila – glamorous. These pix of the stars are going to be forever.

YaR’s on it. trooth!
The mila photo is what I am talking about, sure maybe lounging around in sweats and jogging bra, she’s just a 8.5 with superbanging body. Boo hoo. But in public, dolled up, she stops the universe.
If your gf is putting on make up around the house, well…you’ve got problems.

Wearing makeup — but not gobs of Gaga-conspicuous makeup — apparently can help. It increases people’s perceptions of a woman’s likability, her competence and (provided she does not overdo it) her trustworthiness, according to a new study, which also confirmed what is obvious: that cosmetics boost a woman’s attractiveness.

There’s a goodly amount of Captain Obvious working here…

The fly-in-the-pie, however, is how many women exhibit the true skill of “not overdoing it”?

And so-called ‘competence’ in the workplace is, well… meh. Much of women’s alleged competence is a dog-and-pony show anyway, so it’s natural that they would partake in a bit of the extra-natural to enhance the performance.

“The fly-in-the-pie, however, is how many women exhibit the true skill of “not overdoing it”?”

Many, many women…if you don’t live in a shitty podunk town and hang in social circles of ugly homemakers and plain Janes and go to bars where there’s only 2 hot girls and they’d be 5s in Vegas, that is. Try leaving your keyboard jockey imagination and actually going to a high-end nightclub in a large well-off city sometime…although that would require leaving your house.

“That hot babe you wanted to fuck so badly the night before has morphed into a moldy loaf of bread with half her face mashed into a wrinkled mess in your pillow. The illusion shattered, a relationship with this creature has suddenly seemed a lot less inviting.”

Yes. Black lights in strip clubs also perform the same function. The last ripper i banged looked something horrible the next morning (tho she was nice enough to cook me breakfast).

I also recall getting a lapdance on my birthday many moons ago from what appeared to be a very cute stripper in a school girl outfit thinking, damn id love to take her home. Ran into her at the coffee shop across the street in the early morning after closing time and DAMN.. dressed in her casuals she, away from the masking purple glow i saw a cratered face, horrible hair and down right dumpy in jeans and tshirt.

Someone smiled upon me that day that i did not end up trying to birthday game her home.

This is an interesting post, but the commentary is fascinating. Occasionally the Chateau’s posts ring a particular note and a certain streak of the commentariat comes out. This one seems to have brought out the (I suspect not insignificant) strain of “souther/flyover state” readership…

Not an insult fellahs, but you guys have a noticeably different sensability than us city slickers. It must be that whole PUA/MRA cross-over dynamic. Or, the “the Spearhead links here” effect.

And I live in the heart of downtown in one of the largest cities in the country about 6 blocks away from one of the most prominent fashion schools out there, and thus am neck deep in 19-27 year-old models and fashionistas. They like some makeup, and look sexy in it.

So no, I don’t think it’s an unfair stereotype to say that the typically-older commentariat that live in (comparitively) less metropolitan areas have a different perspective that comes across in the comments.

I’m also not trying to wife-up and pump a passel of rugrats into Betsy-Sue Virgin Until Married. But a chunk of the commenters on this site are. It comes accross.

The difference is, the guys who are chiming in on the side little/no makeup aren’t making all the snarky remarks and half-assed stereotypical assumptions about the guys who like the glam girls.

That says something.

As far as merely getting laid, well… I’ve never had any issue on getting the girls that appealed to me, so the whole street minstrel show that passes for game never really put any hooks in my interest. Neither the men nor women in that circus ever struck a chord in my life.

LTR game and understanding the hamster in dealing with the broad walks and types of women is more my interest.

“And I live in the heart of downtown in one of the largest cities in the country about 6 blocks away from one of the most prominent fashion schools out there, and thus am neck deep in 19-27 year-old models and fashionistas. They like some makeup, and look sexy in it.”

I think makeup does make a difference, but it needs to be subtle to work. I got the comment yesterday that I didn’t look like I was wearing makeup, it just looked like I had great skin. Clown paint seems to have a negative effect.

Also, mineral foundation is fantastic. You can leave it on overnight and it won’t screw your skin up. Just sayin 😉

If 80-90% accuracy is acceptable, just look at the jaw of a random woman in a tony neighborhood in any larger US city. Or just look at a toned woman in pretty much any gym.

Women without sufficient circulating androgen to grow a jaw, are unlikely to have the competitive drive to claw their way though the grinder culminating in SWPL jobs, wages and neighborhoods. And, with the easy availability of fatty comforts, is most likely fat by now.

I can’t get it up either.
But I consider myself CH-brainwashed by his constant anti-manjaw propaganda.
I don’t know if it’s more primal than that. But I do know that the biggest slut I ever met definitely qualified for manjaw modeling.

OT, but someone should look into the link between lionesses allowing their cubs to be killed by alpha lions and women’s tendencies to go psycho and abuse their own children after having to settle with beta husbands.

Not slobbing out then trying to compensate for it with cake is important. Makeup is just an added point at best, and in the case of naturally good looking women it can obscure their appeal if they don’t use it right.

Genetics and natural good looks shine through though if a woman is fit, and they can obscure looks if not applied just-so. This one girl who used to roll with the adventure sports crew I hang out with was sort of frumpy looking in town – bad hair, ugly dress suits at work and so on. Very average looking at work, maybe a 6.5 on a really good day. But she’d show up at mountain camp, pull back her hair, put on some tights or shorts and a tank top, and pick up about two to three points immediately. All of a sudden we could see the cheekbones, slim, fit body, great legs, and a pretty face with big eyes, and without badly applied makeup. She took up triathlon a couple years ago and within a year was racing pro at Kona. Turns out her parents and most of her grandparents were olympians. The makeup and attempts at fancy hair were just hiding a totally superior genetic package.

Which women benefit most from make up? Those on some kind of borderline. Going from a 4.5 to a 5.5 means some guy might actually want to have you. (Favourite example: that Bialik chick on Big Bang Theory who is, being extremely generous, a 4, with unfavourable make-up and wardrobe, but who can go up to a 5.5 with the right make-up and lighting. Marginally bangable territory. See Season 5 “The Pulled Groin Extrapolation.”) The next most important jump is from a 6 to a 7 or 7.5. With a really cool personality, a 7 might be able to snag herself an alpha male. (Favourite example: Linda McCartney)

Funny experience back when I was struggling with the red pill.
Went on a 3 day camping trip to a (clothing optional) hot springs, very primitive setting with no toilets or showers. With a fairly attractive movie actress, a beautician, and a dominatrix who was trying to exit that soul-killing line of work. The actress brought along her male “friend”.

Quite a revelation the first morning. They all spent some time that morning trying to put on their makeup. With only a tiny hand-held mirror.

The second morning, didn’t really bother except for some eye makeup. I have to tell you, it was very informative.

My tentmate the beautician (who was an excellent wingwoman), was coming down with a bug, so went to bed early. The actress’s friend had passed out, so she ended up with me the second night out by the hot spring, a discreet distance from our campsite.

The dom was the odd woman out, since she couldn’t get a condom so she could get it on with a man she met by the hot spring. It was funny how the other women weren’t willing to give up any of their supply for their BFF. At least to me. She was absolutely furious.

The moral of the story, each of them lost 1-2 points without their makeup. Beautician was a former international Ford model, the others were comparable. Each was expert in applying makeup, hence the magnitude of loss, plus they were in their 30’s.

Each of them (after alcohol consumption) expressed what a relief it was after the first day to just say “fuck it” to the makeup because they were so far removed from potential clients and competition (except with each other). It was also amazing to me the willingness to vamp for a video camera in some situations (too bad my batteries didn’t last forever).

If you date attractive girls then the point of makeup is to shine in social functions, to be good arm candy to make benefit your status.

Otherwise, yeah, kissing a female clown is ng. And for most other women, makeup is useless.

Counterpoint, lingerie is today’s makeup. It’s there for when makeup is useless to make most bodies passable. If a girl is smart, a bustier and stockings can cover up extensive, and unacceptable, cellulite.

Looking at a human face like you would contemplate a work of art; could it be that a handsome man’s face is better looking than a beautiful woman’s face? Lets suppose twin brothers; a girl and a boy. I venture to say this is so in nature, for male birds have the most striking feathers, deer antlers, etc.
Make up as a general practice among women is a rather recent phenomenon and can be linked somehow to the advance of feminism. It is an attempt to trick Nature and to give a female face that glow that is normal in a healthy man’s face.
In the past make up was restricted to the upper classes or for religious rituals and more common among men than women. George Washington probably wore more make up than his wife Martha.

no I dont think so. you must be a woman or a fag. Not all species are like that . many animals you cant tell the difference thats why the women choose the higher status male. the one that beats the other in wits or physical strength. Face it , most guys are plain. even look around your city , you will see many attractive women, men not so much.

Peacocks!
Sink me!
Think ye, sir,
How those feathered boys love to flaunt their tails!
Stallions!
Zounds, sir!
Hounds sir! Stags!
Of the goosie and the gander, sir
Which gender is the grander, sir
To render total candor, sir, the spendour is the male’s!
Be an example to your sex
Give your boot a dapper strap
And it’s smarter if your garter has some snap!
Cravats should be flounced about our necks
Wear a nightcap when you nap
Be bewitching with some stitching on your cap!
Now, drape your cape
And puff your cuff
Embroider those lapels!
Be the kind of the beasts in pastels!
La, but someone has to strike a pose
And bear the weight of well-tailored clothes
And that is why the Lord created men
Strut, sir!
What, sir?
Roosters do!
Give a cock his comb and the hens will pale!
Bucks! Bulls!
More, sir!
Boars, sir! Rams!
Of the nanny goat and billy, sir
Whose beard is fully wooly, sir?
It’s bully for the billy for he’s willy-nilly male!
Sir, be a lion-hearted prig
Fill those pantaloons with light!
I could dangle down a spangle out of sight!
Oh, yes! Be bold, sir!
When it’s cold, slap on that wig
Draw your britches in quite tight
Even more so, and your torso will ignite
Now, smock your frock
Perfume your plume
I’ll let my waistcoat swing!
And the jungle will bow to its king!
La, but someone has to strike a pose
And bear the weight of well-tailored clothes
And that is why the Lord created men
Yes, that is why the Lord created men
Remember what we’re here for
Why we must be dressed to kill
If we have to look like Cleopatra
Then we will!
If you’re out to make a splash, cheri,
Do know your haberdashery!
Buttons, buckles, ruffles and lace
Represent the human race!
La, but someone has to strike a pose
And bear the weight of well-tailored clothes
Each species needs a sex that’s fated
To be highly decorated
That is why the Lord created men

In all superior mammals the male is stronger and wastes more genetic material (horns, hair, fangs, antlers etc.) for mere display, which also put them as higher risk with predators. Children and females do not waste their DNA in such displays and are more plain looking. In humans, males have better skin and hair than females despite what the cosmetic industry wants you to believe. Darwin, who was no fag, notices how among some naked natives how the men where “better formed and more aesthetically pleasing” than the women; and also mentions in The Descent of Man “In most, but not all parts of the world, the men are more ornamented than the women and often in a different manner; sometimes, though rarely, the women are hardly at all ornamented” his observation makes conclude that a society where the female ornaments herself in a flashy way like an Alpha and the male is modest and believes, like oogabooga does, that women are better looking than men; is clearly a matriarchy.

It’s Greek vs Western thought. The ancient Greeks thought the male form was the best-looking, Westerners think women are the golden standard of beauty. Seeing women wearing makeup and nice clothes all your life and men wearing flip flops and baggy t-shirts will reinforce this notion.
Here’s Paul Anka singing a beta-riffic tune to a female audience:
He looks better than quite a few of the women do. This was a ’50s show, and IIRC makeup was still frowned upon in some areas. Anka, being a performer by trade, was very likely wearing makeup.

Makeup primarily covers up imperfections of the face. Every face has them after 20+ years of use. Most of us have had cuts, acne, whatever in our past. Makeup’s first role is to cover those up. Of course, you can add more makeup to ‘enhance’ your appearance further (with varying levels of success). Go too far and you’re in painted whore, transvestite, or even mime territory.

There shouldn’t be any opposition between Greek and western thought. Finding females and feminity more appealing belongs to the oriental tradition after all, but you are right. At least since the French, since Francis I, the west tends to represent women rather than men.

The point of makeup is to look like you aren’t wearing any. No cake for me, thanks. I prefer Estee Lauder. In my old age, its become more about taking care of my skin and health, and then one just looks better anyway.

This! I’m hitting my mid-twenties, and I’m starting to be VERY glad I took up using a moisturiser with a high SPF when I was 21.

I know this is blog for men, but Heartiste and the others here give such useful advice, I’d a post on what skin care routines preserve a woman’s looks best. And what diet/exercise routine are best for creating an ideal female form.

I don’t know what you look like but that’s exactly what every plain Jane average 4-6 woman says.

This guy didnt build an empire off “healthy” skin that “looks better”:

If I had a daughter, when she was old enough to get into makeup I’d take her to a MAC counter and get her a makeover and get the chicks to teach her how to do her makeup and what looks good on her. Generally when a girl has shitty makeup it’s because she just “wung it” learning how to do it or her mom taught her or at 25 she’s still using the same shit she used when she was 14 and borrowed her mom’s lipstick.

All it’d take is half an hour with a pro and boom, the world is at her feet for the majority of her life.

I think a lot of women don’t go because they’re embarrassed to admit they don’t know what they’re doing and have someone examine them closely and see their flaws…but the chicks working makeup counters are there FOR that service. I understand though, when I was shy and first learning that wearing wal-mart sneakers and having the same haircut I had in junior high wasn’t cool, I was embarrassed to go clothes shopping and ask for help too…but it was worth it in the long run.

Oh yeah, well, there’s a reason the term is makeup “artist.” I agree- learn from the pros and don’t be shy about it. I wear makeup, myself, but actually less than I did even a few months ago. Cannot, cannot say enough good things about microdermabrasion. Its truly incredible.

I understand though, when I was shy and first learning that wearing wal-mart sneakers and having the same haircut I had in junior high wasn’t cool, I was embarrassed to go clothes shopping and ask for help too…

You reveal yourself. Not all of us had your awkward, late journey into semi-enlightenment, which explains why you cannot hold a basic conversation with anyone who disagrees with you. Once you encounter a contrary opinion, your only option is to announce some hidden motivation or flaw in the dissenter’s character.

If you think this is “alpha” in any sense, you are retarded. Even worse, you are a retard who mimics alpha partially, scores his progress by only one standard (female attention), and has no idea how transparent he is. It’s a shame. A dose of humility and self-awareness would make you into the man you merely think you are.

There is no reason to pick fights with GeishaKate or Greg Eliot other than because you think you have to prove something. They have different experiences, statuses, and goals. It is plain to most clear-minded people that Hugh Hefner is a goat who uses Viagra to pretend his shriveled, octogenarian cock and kick-started “libido” are still teenaged and virile. The women who surround him are the Playboy fantasy made animate: a fakery- (“I don’t fuck sporting goods” PA +1 below) and-airbrushing mentality going back half-a-century. That idea of women only obtains until a boy meets a woman intimately. When I was a kid peeking at dad’s Playboys, I thought playmates stretched out on rugs under studio lights was an ideal, too.

Women are more than background furniture on a soft-focus porn set with YaReally directing, and it doesn’t make anyone beta to acknowledge that truth. In fact, dealing with four-dimensional women is not a problem for alphas. It comes naturally. But your artificial journey from the outside to an artificial pose on the inside never passed through that possibility.

Your Philosophy of Formulas works for beginners until they establish their stride. Your reliance on inventions and invective to explain the world tells us all we need to know about where you are on your progress to full manhood: a cul-de-sac. And your overexcited description of the view from a dead-end bores those of us who have moved on to bigger and better.

I was going to say the same thing. Diet has a huge impact on how a woman’s skin looks, not to mention that the typical American diet causes a subtle bloating/rounding of one’s facial features. I doubt most people who haven’t been outside the country would notice that last one, but after living abroad for several years, I was shocked at how fat even the skinny girls looked here back home.

I’m personally on a no gluten/soy/dairy diet for celiac’s, and it’s amazing what a difference it’s made in how my skin and face look.

i think part of the reason chicks wear makeup is to mark territory as well. Cause my chick wears this glitter stuff that even though she hasen’t been around you will still be seeing glitter pieces all over the place. Shower and look at your arm and a piece of glitter looking back.

My brother banned glitter make-up from the house when I hit middle school. Told my mom it was how 14 year olds marked their “easy” status for guys. I have no idea why an adult woman would wear the stuff. Are you sure she’s legal age?

Glitter makeup seems to be quite popular with the ‘cute’ (= 7-8) girls with a little bit of an artistic streak. Figure skaters, aspiring actresses, that sort of thing. Age irrelevant, I’ve seen it on 30-somethings.

Does her name refer to her mongoloid elocution? She starts out with quite the marble mouth.

Good visual contrast, as you say, even if her complaint about the Olympics is inane. Funny thing is, even with a peek behind the scenes, the visual dishonesty still works on us. Even on a split screen. We know we’re being trick and we like being tricked.

What does that sound like?

We should be able to recognize female pick-up artistry when we see it. Cosmetics done right is girl game mastery. We want to be fooled by appearances just as much as girls want to be fooled by alpha tells.

“Women are not even shallow.” In other words, they are not supposed to contain profundity and depth. Their expertise is the manipulation of appearances. Each one a mistress of disguise. We are okay with that during the “game.” We look for more post-game. When they receive our surname, they receive our identity. We fill them with cock, we fill them with meaning. The masculine invasion-injection is comprehensively transformative to a woman — mind, body, soul. Or we move on to the next empty, pretty shell.

The guys who say they prefer “the natural look” tend to confuse this preference for a guileless look — purity, innocence, an absence of manipulation. But this is more a function of a man’s general insistence for honesty than it is a preference for the unaltered or unkempt. Our manly desire for honesty, though, plays right into a master girl-PUA’s designs: she knows we violate the policy all the time, we love to make exceptions, and further, instigating those exceptions become proof of her special status.

Players are so deep in their own version of manipulation that they can’t recognize when they’re being played. Especially when that manipulation goes by the name of “natural” or “honest.”

No, the purpose isn’t to “enhance our attractiveness.” That’s a misunderstanding that many men have, but it isn’t actually the reason why I, or many other women, wear makeup.

[heartiste: it may not be the reason you *tell* yourself, but you can be damn sure it’s the real subconsciously guided reason you wear makeup.]

We wear makeup because it’s just good grooming. It makes you look a little tidier, a little more pulled-together. It makes you look like you made a little bit of effort. I wear makeup for the same reason I take showers, shave my legs, comb my hair and wear deodorant. I wear makeup for the same reasons you comb your hair, wear cologne, and shower before a date.

You guys think we wear makeup just to impress you, but we don’t!

[ultimately, you do. just like men don’t consciously scale the heights of power to turn on women, but ultimately they do.]

“I do all that shit to look tidy and presentable while I sit in the friendzone.”

Gold, Adam, Gold.

Try going to the gym, doing heavy deadlifts, then looking at some porn but not ejaculating. Then get dressed up but don’t shave or shower. Your funky man-musk will pull them in as if they’re on a leach. Some will be repelled, but others, magnetically attracted.

Wow. Talk about a hamster the size of a constellation. Apparently this self-deluded young lady hasn’t heard of evolutionary psychobiology. My gut says that everly is a troll. But, to humor you:

Makeup’s entire purpose is to mimic fertility cues, which is a scientific way to say attractiveness. Your coworkers give you more credence because you look healthier (even if it’s just a facade), and more fertile. It’s all subconscious, darling. Your “pulled together, well groomed” look is our cue, however faked it may be, that you might be a fertile young lass. Even if you are neither fertile nor young. Thus, men do value that natural look, because it’s a much more honest assessment of your age and fertility. Real talk just for you, baby.

Women feel as though they don’t wear makeup to attract men because they’re not attracted to 90% of the men they meet. They wear makeup to attract those 10% alphas that only occasionally appear. So even though they do wear makeup to be sexually attractive, their hamster brain will tell them they’re not because they’re not attracted to most men.

You don’t wear makeup to impress all men, but only alphas.
You get a breast surgery not because you want to attract all men, but only the desirable alphas.
You want to be a successful exec in a multinational corp, not because you want to impress all men, but only to bask in the glow of dominant desirable alphas.

Heck, once upon a time, women would put a poison (Belladonna, aka Nightshade) into their eyes to dilate their pupils. When a person’s pupils are dilated when looking at you, it makes them seem interested in you and child-like (hence the terms “wide-eyed amazement” and “big, puppy dog eyes”). Women understood this, and risked death and blindness to look younger and more into potential rich suitors.

But once you notice the makeup first and not the intended effects, it loses it’s effectiveness.

Fun fact: the eyedrops that othalmologists still use to dilate the eyes, atropine, is still made from belladonna. I’ve heard of women in Asia and other countries buying scopolamine or atropine drops (it’s OTC over there) to dilate the pupils to make themselves look hotter. They have contacts for that too now.

Heck, I wanted to try the scopolamine/atropine trick because I hear it makes your vision sharper and improves night vision quite a bit. Great for hunting..whether it’s in the forest or the night club.. you can see your targets better.

Virtually every woman I know wears some type of makeup before leaving the house, unless going to the gym or something. So I have a hard time believing these comments. I don’t think a lot of these guys can actually spot makeup that well when it’s done tastefully. Every boyfriend I had didn’t know what mascara was until I demonstrated putting it on, and even then had no idea I was wearing it.

Here’s what I used to wear when I went out during college:
1. Highlighter and a taupe “lowlighter” (making my nose appear narrower and my cheekbones broader)
2. Eyebrow power to fill in my eyebrows so they would look higher and still have impact in the dark
3. Brown eyeliner on top, white eyeliner along the inner rim of my eyes to make my eyes appear larger
4. Curled lashes with moderate mascara
5. Under eye concealer
6. Very subtle blush

I have never needed foundation. What I avoided what eyeshadow and lipstick. That’s seriously all that most men seem to notice.

Men had, on several occasions, seriously made comments about my “natural” beauty. A couple even compared me to my friends who were not wearing nearly as much make up, thinking they were the unnatural ones.

The biggest problem with the way women wear make-up is that they wear it to cover their flaws, when it’s meant to accentuate their features. A little blush, some mascara, and a tinted lip balm is all I need to be out-the-door ready (though I’m 25 so I know realistically this won’t be my routine forever). It’s rare that I’ll wear more than that and when I do I actually tend to feel less attractive. My Grandma valued femininity very highly, she wore a dress or a skirt every day of her life and never let anyone see her without her hair perfectly done and jewelry on. When I was a teenager she always told me “Pretty girls don’t need to hide behind make-up.” and “The only people who need to paint their faces are strumpets and clowns.” both of which I plan to pass along to my daughter if she ever feels the need to cover herself in a thick layer of whore paint.

I give nicknames in my thoughts to some people I see regularly on the train. One time I saw this hot, striking blonde out of the corner of my eye. At closer look she was quite old but heavy in makeup. Nice legs, ass, and dyed long hair. Instant nickname: “Miracles in Taxidermy.”

The make up is one thing but what has been left unsaid is the body shaping undergarments that women start to use when they get older. The push up bras, the Spanx underwear and such. You see them with clothes on and it looks pretty good. But the minute it all pops off the look is very different.

Couple that with the make up and you aren’t just talking about a point or two difference. In some cases it’s a boner crushing difference.

“You think that I’d take possession of some zebra children?”
————————
No but your wife will thanks to the vaginamony you will hafta cough up every month while I lay up in her gap like a shiftless nigger.

Let’s come back down to Earth here. All women get hit on by men. It’s just that young, hot women get hit on more often. I don’t know any clean, decent women under 60 or so, who don’t get frequent male attention. It’s just that above a certain age most guys are unavailable or uninterested.

A woman can’t walk around being a loving, generous, nurturing person, and not have guys who want to get with her. It just doesn’t happen. The question is what they are going to want from her, and that depends a lot on the culture. Boners don’t know social status, and though beauty is great inspiration, most guys don’t really need much.

It’s just that if two girls are standing next to each other, the pretty one is going to get more attention initially. Sooner or later though, the question of what she has to offer is going to come up.

Women who are ugly on the inside (which usually ends up showing on the outside by 25 or so), and men who are bitter from chasing them, often build mythologies that excuse them from trying to improve themselves. Ugly girls say that men only want top tier beauties so why try or treat them with respect, and men fantasize that the ugly or not ugly but just normal women who reject them are suffering in loneliness. That is just not the way the world works.

The way the world works is that the male sex drive is a wondrous and powerful thing, and it is plenty strong enough to penetrate a flaw or two. For some, it even goes beyond gender. Men are awesome that way. So no woman has an excuse for not taking care of herself as best she can, if she wants a man. No man should delude himself to think that someone else wouldn’t be happy to have that girl with the mousy brown hair or the tummy roll so long as she’s doing the best she can. He shouldn’t even delude himself that one would have to be particularly beta to love a woman despite some flaws.

It’s just a dog eat dog world, and nobody is waiting around for you to get up the guts…and if top shelf beauties are what you want, you need to nut up and go get them. You shouldn’t need to console yourself with the idea that plain girls are sitting home alone, because they are not unless they choose to take the career first catlady route, and that’s a behavioral deficiency problem, not a looks problem.

Those qualities might not “help her attractiveness” in the abstract, but they contribute to her attractiveness by signaling availability. The paradox of the slut’s magnetism. (See “I like trashy” comment above.)

She is drunk, open, and swearing like a man. Read “masculine qualities” as masculine availability — she advertises her sex drive as comparable to a man’s, i.e., Any Given Night. Her finishing school taught her how to hone every signal into “DTF” without broadcasting abject sluttery. Very nicely balanced.

Good for her (for now). Catastrophic for civilization, since this ideal has gone viral. Dads everywhere are proud.

Men everywhere are okay with this deal: I’ll let my offspring be trashy as long as I can take advantage of your offspring’s trashiness. Great, until you realize you’ve consigned yourself and everyone to living in a landfill.

My mistress’ eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red than her lips’ red;
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head;
I have seen roses damasked, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some pérfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound.
I grant I never saw a goddess go;
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground.
And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare.

Tried a little day game today. Approached a 7 dressed to kill. I’ve seen hr before in my daily rounds. Has given me the eye. Complimented her and asked for her#. She smiled (teeth showing) and thanked me for the comp but then became defensive and slightly bitchy about the #. Said she didn’t know me etc. Wouldn’t even give me her email. Asked for my # and sarcastically asked if I had a c-phone. Gave her my email instead.

This. Until it’s obvious that the game is on and their is solid chemistry, just don’t be nice to girls your find attractive. At all. Full stop.

You should behave in a manner that would have you on the verge of taking a swing at a guy if he was acting that way to your sister in front of you. This will not come naturally to most. A good rule of thumb is that if you think “am I being to much of an asshole?” the answer is no, because you’re still the sort of guy for which that question comes to mind (i.e., probably not actually an asshole).

Don’t worry, if you are naturally a kinder/gentler/beta-ier type (for now, until the behavior is internalized and goes from act to habit to outward expression of your inner working), those tendancies are allowed to come out–IN SMALL DOSES–later. After the girl mentally associates you with a tingling in her crotchular region.

Day game is tough, unless you’re traveling or live in a beach/ski resort. Compliments ALWAYS backfire. Her giving you the eye waqs most likely your imagination. Giving her YOUR # and/or email is worthless, they never follow up. Unless you are Brad Pitt, in which case all of this would be irrelevant.

A few notes. I should have mentioned that Heidi’s face isn’t all that easy on the eyes. It was her body that attracted me. In complimenting her I was aiming at several things. 1) Practicing the “just say anything” principle 2) Trying a little direct game by showing unmistakable sexual interest early on 3) As per 2 aiming for something about midway between the corny (“My, aren’t you a vision of loveliness”) and a wolf-whistle. (I gave her a mild compliment on her legs.) Finally 4) Since H wasn’t the prettiest of creatures- she’s a classic “butterface”- I thought that a sexual compliment was safe and encouraging.

What I had in mind was a low investment, outcome independent casting of the reel to see if I’d feel a tug. All I wanted was to throw a fuck into the lady without putting too much effort into it.

I don’t think complimenting her or asking for her phone number were the problem. I think it is expected a woman will be reluctant to give her phone number out that easily, and you got flustered by her “no”. You should have just said “okay” and let there be an uncomfortable pause in the conversation. Forget giving her your email, it’s her phone number you want, not an email exchange.
I think you were smart complimenting her body and not her face. It’s a compliment, but it comes across as mildly sexist, which isn’t such a bad thing.

I beg to differ. NOT SAYING ANYTHING is failing test #1. Once you open your mouth, you are in the top few percent of Ameri-Robots. Then all the other trials begin. It’s so easy–just be a young tall millionaire with tons of social proof! Shaping = successive approximations of the desired behavior.

Nah, you’re talking about not making eye contacts. As a good looking 26 year old, I often don’t need to open my mouth to say anything. Eye contacts and a smile/smirk is usually all it takes to get her to say “hi” or do a double take with a smile.

But approaching a situation where the girl isn’t interested or when she’s dolled up and knows she looks good, I never give out compliments. I usually just DHV/neg/cocky funny or whatever and reserve the compliments for when she’s starting to qualify herself.

“Good looking 26 year-old”; you are right and we agree. Successive approximations of boffing her while she calls you “master” would include eye contact as an easier, earlier approximation than verbal opening. Whether you need to do verbal openings is an individual variation in current market value, but not in the process and principle.

“You’re gorgeous.”
“Thanks!”
“Give me your number so we can hang out.”
= no number and her on the defensive, you know NOTHING about her except that she’s hot so you must only want the # for sex and so for her to give you her # she’s basically be admitting she wants sex, which triggers her Anti-Slut Defense, thus she has to reject you.

“You’re gorgeous.”
“Thanks!”
“But beauty is common. What else do you have going for you? Can you cook?”
“Oh I love cooking!”
“Ahhh good, I was worried you’d be just another pretty face. I love a woman who knows her way around the kitchen, it’s so rare these days. Give me your number and you can show me your cooking skills this weekend.”
= number because now you like her for something other than her looks and it’s okay to meet up again because you’re not just looking for sex.

Great advice. I just remembered that I tried this once before and I got the number. I was shaking like a leaf, as it was my first time. This time I was cool but didn’t get the digits. Go figure.

I’m going to ignore her if I see her again. Or maybe just wink from a distance without engaging with her. And if on the off-chance she contacts me I’m going to give her confirmation of my initial unambiguous sexual interest, together with my subsequent loss of interest because of her attitude. Without any bitterness, of course.

Ignore the stuff people are saying about not complimenting her (no offense to you guys). That was fine, it just put you in a different situation to deal with than an indirect approach, but it’s not a problem. Comfort was the problem, this is a standard case.

There’s actually a plateau intermediate PUAs run into where they learn how easy it is to get phone numbers, so they run out and they’re tearing down 10+ phone numbers a night thinking they’re badasses and all their friends are like “dude you’re such a pimp, wow!”

Then 8/10 of those numbers don’t even answer and the other two flake lol and they’re like “wtf!! bitches!!!” lol That’s when they learn why comfort/rapport-building is important. 🙂

(you CAN get quick solid numbers in certain situations with certain techniques, but that’s like a whole YaReally length article and not relevant right now)

So let’s approach this logically:

“I’m going to ignore her if I see her again.”

Your problem is not enough comfort/rapport. Will this build comfort/rapport? No.

“Or maybe just wink from a distance without engaging with her.”

Will this build comfort/rapport? It would build extremely SLIGHT rapport, but not nearly enough to be significant or change the outcome.

“And if on the off-chance she contacts me”

She won’t. To contact you, since she thinks all you want is sex, would be to admit she wants sex. She might if she’s horny and drunk on the weekend and it’s tripping up her ASD that should be kicking in and keeping her from doing it, but that’s a hail-mary hope in hell.

On top of it, you showed her you have no standards and are desperate because you wanted her number, then were willing to settle for her E-Mail…Facebook? MSN? ICQ? Friendster? Pleeeeasee?????

If she won’t give the number, you keep gaming her until she gives the number. If you can’t turn it around, you keep trying and plowing till you burn it to the ground, and then analyze where you went wrong and try again on the next one. This is why we encourage guys not to shit where they eat…burning it to the groud with a stranger isn’t a big deal and you can focus on learning from it, burning it to the groud with a co-worker or fellow student in your class means awkward reprocussions.

Good. Be congruent. Backtracking would make her not trust you. You being congruent builds comfort because she can trust that you are who you appear to be. Like the Joker says “Nobody panics when everything goes according to plan, even if the plan is terrifying.”

“together with my subsequent loss of interest because of her attitude. Without any bitterness, of course.”

She did nothing wrong, you fucked this up entirely. Own your mistakes, don’t project the blame externally. She simply acted in the way you caused her to act with your sloppy game. This isn’t a judgement call on you as a person, it’s just a logical rational “2 + 3 does not equal 4.” Don’t harbor resentment toward her, she doesn’t deserve it.

Terrible. This is your ego being butt-hurt and lashing out at her, trying to save your pride. It’s shitty reactive insecure externally-validation-seeking bullshit. On top of it, she did nothing wrong except react to your shitty game, so she doesn’t deserve to be insulted. Don’t do this.

You can’t NEXT a girl you haven’t fucked. That’s her NEXT’ing you. If you legit aren’t into her, that’s cool, but in this case from what you’ve written you would bang her, you’re just butt-hurt right now and don’t know how to fix the situation.

Now that we’ve shit all over that, let’s bring things back to the important question: How can you build comfort/rapport with her, and get her to qualify herself to you so that you can react to that qualifying the way I described before, and go for the number again, but this time with more reasoning behind it than “I want to fuck you, butterface” thus resulting in getting the number?

I can give you a solid solution, but you try coming up with something first.

How long did you spend with her? If it was less than 3-5 minutes, complimenting her was too much, too soon. Like Roosh says, you “scared the cat.” Practice your old person banter, talk with her for like 15 minutes, get to know her a bit, be genuinely interested in who she is (and be interesting yourself). Find some common ground. Then go for the number. That’s how day game is done. Check Roosh’s Day Bang book, it’s a solid read on the subject.

Ouch, why all the hatred for makeup? I absolutely love putting on makeup (as do most other hyperfeminine-presenting women I know.) It provides a visceral thrill of pleasure, much like tinkering around with car parts does for men. I don’t wear it every day and Lord knows everyone who knows me knows what my bare face looks like, but it’s just fun to make yourself look glamorous from time to time.

And there’s hardly any “trickery” involved if you’re doing it right (i.e. subtly enhancing your features, not painting a clown whore face on top of your face.) You’re just supposed to look like a slightly fresher, more wide-awake version of yourself. And my husband approves, he interprets it as me dolling myself up for him and finds it charming.

I agree with you on the industrialization issue in the West, but cosmetics have been used by both men and women throughout recorded history in nearly every civilization. They’re an empty signifier on their own.

And I sleep fine, hate shopping malls and don’t use stimulants (not even caffeine.) I just find a unique erotic charge in prettying myself up, putting on makeup and lingerie for the man in my life. I’m not looking for approval from the masses and if you prefer the natural woman, good for you.

However, there’s a fine line between using make-up to make yourself feel more feminine and getting that little thrill of excitement from it, and painting yourself up and looking like a whore. A lot of women go way, way overboard in respect to the latter. I suspect that’s what the guys on this thread are objecting to.

I can see why men aren’t thrilled about the idea of a woman wearing makeuo. After all, a woman’s dating value is primarily based on her looks and any artificial enhancements to said looks hinder his ability to make a definitive assessment on her looks. It’s akin to a man parading about town in his friend’s Ferrari claiming it’s his own when in reality he drives a Mustang.

While men do have a good reason to take umbrage women’s usage of makeup, I think the ones who are most adament about not dating women who wear makeup only seem to picture poorly applied makeup as the only kind of makeup a woman can wear. They also seem to over-estimate exactly how much makeup can actually do for a given woman – it isn’t plastic surgery.

In all actuality, expertly and carefully applied makeup isn’t supposed to be attention-grabbing and is often not picked up by men consciously. If the makeup application that a woman is donning is terribly noticeable – she’s most likely doing it wrong.

All in all I know very few exceptionally attractive women who don’t wear makeup on a fairly regular basis despite the fact they’d be more attractive than your average woman with just moisturizer on their face I maintain that as attractive as said women are without makeup, they 100% look better with makeup and only a dishonest person would disagree.

As it turns out, when a man seed a hot woman who is wearing pro makeup, he doesn’t see a hot woman with makeup, but a hot woman. Full stop.

Makeup is a tool for woman to enhance their looks, subtly or otherwise, in order for us to take the edge off in the competition – and what a valuable tool it can be when wielded skillfully! It should not, however, under any circumstances be relied upon as a crutch or permanent cover-up for poor skin.

A woman is better off investing more money and time into taking care of the basics (skin, hair, nails etc) before indulging in artificial enhancements.

In my experience and observation, the men who don’t like women wearing makeup are the type who are in occupations wherein they would actually need a woman to be honest and loyal. If a woman is well groomed and feminine, but not wearing makeup, or wearing only minimal makeup (eyeliner and lipstick only) this makes her perhaps less pretty but more attractive.

So, if a woman is already not a beauty queen, she will score more masculine men by avoiding makeup while investing in a very feminine, but not overly slutty wardrobe. She should also keep her hair and nails well maintained but not fake, shave, and mind her manners.

Wearing makeup does nothing beyond status signalling if you’re not extremely hot to begin with, and men who are men don’t care much about your status. They do care about your femininity though, so you can signal your status well enough with quality shoes, without wearing a lot of paint.

Honestly speaking, though, I don’t fault women at all for wearing makeup. Especially if she’s ugly. As a matter of fact, I encourage it.

Women: Make yourself as hot as possible. But don’t delude yourself into thinking you’re actually that hot or that assholes like me would look past your hideousness and fall in love with your personality.

If you’re a 4-5. By all means, put on make up and primp yourself to a 6-7. Then snag yourself a beta with that and turn that chump into your lapdog. Treat him good, because he’s all you can get.

Makeup smells like shit on women who have their period. Actually, no, it smells like shit extracted from the dead corpse of a skunk.

Advice to women: as soon as you start bleeding (God’s monthly reminder to you that you’re an inferior creature), take a bath and remove all dead skin with a luffa or an exfoliation chemical. And don’t do perfume, nor makeup for the whole week. Exfoliate as often as necessary (once is usually enough but maybe there are some exceptionally stinky bitches who need it twice or more).

My girlfriend started to do that and now I don’t have to wonder if a bunch of horses died at my place whenever she has a period.

Among my many curses is an exceptional sense of smell. It’s been this way all my life. In an enclosed space, I can identify my friends and family from three yards away with my eyes closed. And, yes, I can tell when women have their periods.

But it doesn’t smell like dead horses. It smells like stale blood. Like a raw steak that’s been left on a warm counter for a couple of hours. It’s not exactly pleasant, but not shit-corpse-skunk nasty.

“But it doesn’t smell like dead horses. It smells like stale blood. Like a raw steak that’s been left on a warm counter for a couple of hours. It’s not exactly pleasant, but not shit-corpse-skunk nasty.”

I just finished reading Girl Land, by Caitlin Flanagan (who would be right at home here at the Chateau, if she isn’t already reading it). She said that when walking into a girls’ bathroom at a local high school, she was assaulted by this very smell.

There is absolutely NOTHING worse than walking into a ladies’ room and smelling unwashed vagina/stale period blood. It’s a funky, musky, oppressive stench. I’m sure men’s rooms have similarly…rich…aromas, but this one is particularly unique.

Maybe I’m generalizing here, but I’ve noticed something along those lines. Men, in general, are more likely to have body odor than women – but it’s a more garden-variety smell. Women are less likely to carry a smell, but when they do – they really *stink* in a uniquely offensive way.

As someone who grew up in Europe, I’m not as hypersensitive to body odor as Americans often are. To this day, the use of underarm deodorant isn’t a given in the Olde Worlde, they also tend not to shower 4 times a day. I’m always a little surprised when an American girl smells of herself, but it doesn’t actually bother me – provided she’s at least cute, of course. Interestingly, Blondes seem to be the least smelly, at least based on my experiences. Can’t recall having been in a Ladies Room, but if you want some hellish X-Files type stench, go visit a public (gender-separated) restroom in a large European city. That’ll turn even Leatherface’s stomach.

It really is a “to each his own” situation. If the man loves camping, he wants a woman who can share that passion. Every man has a job and a hobby. (Avoid men who have a jhobby- they’ll never want to do anything else.) The hobby is really the one that the girl needs to be compatible with. I knew a guy really into indie music. I like music and I enjoyed what he shared with me, but he found somone into going to all the same festivals he loves, so they were a great match. Some things, like the camping for the man above, just become non-negotiable.

Gave up on that a long-ass time ago. Came to the conclusion that not 1 attractive woman is interested in anything I’m interested in, hence the two must be kept separate.Job & hobbies either alone or with guys/friends, girls a totally different sphere.

“jhobby” = great neologism. Speaks of the frivolity with which the modern “man” approaches industry.

We work to create greatness, not to pay the bills so we can more quickly return to our pastimes. Lining up one’s vocation with wealth-creation is more than just “I’m so lucky! I found a way to make money by doing something I love!”

If your career is a bourgeois pursuit — as most make-work “occupations” are these days — the tendency will be to clockwatch and thereafter retreat into “fun!!!!” This is another cultural consequence of economically depending on women to work. A man’s lifelong contribution, what should define him against the ages, is construed from the feminine perspective as just so much pointless drudgery.

I, for one, don’t have “hobbies.” Hobbies are for socially detached nerds-at-heart, those who are easily obsessed by detailed irrelevancies (I have chronicled every episode of Star Trek DH9 on my website! Check it out!) and susceptible to escaping reality rather than confronting it (My county’s largest train-set is authentic down to the 19th-century rivets!).

My life is my art, my art is my work, and my work is my life. Every pursuit — even the occasionally frivolous ones — integrates smoothly into that indivisible interplay. Perplexing to today’s cubicle mouse, I know.

Not all hobbies are created equal. Things like trainsets and video games will definitely NOT help you with women, but skateboarding helps keep me young, in shape, and in touch with a certain feral rawness women tend to like. Playing guitar is also good.

And you posting on Hateiste is part of your achieving immortality? In between fielding calls from the “A” listers in gubmint, hollywood, or advanced genetic research? It would take a little convincing.

There’s only a few hundred immortals, and one of them — B. Traven, who wrote the “Treasure of the Sierra Madre” didn’t believe in hero worship– he thought the person that sets the type for the book is important, as is the author.

Good thing you live in the woods, supplying everything for your immortal achievements, without any help from the “little people” and cubicle drones to whom you feel so superior.

Just today I was at a Starbucks in a wealthy suburb. Saw a 40+ woman who was clearly a hot blonde-but-demurish-cheerleader type.

Her skin was more taught than it should have been, and her breasts were a bit too perky. I glanced at her hands, which were veiny and old looking,but the rest of her was this half-weird, half-successful attempt at 35.

She noticed me looking, and went out of her way to stand next to me—once when ordering (she was done but lingered at the counter) and once when I went to get napkins with the coffee (she followed me over and got some napkins, even though she’d gotten some before).

I smirked a Gibbs-like smirk at her, paused one second long enough in glancing at her so that she knew I saw her, and then goose-stepped out the door (for thwack).

I almost said, “Nice wedding ring,” but I thought that would’ve let the cat out of that bag.

At this point in my life, I am filled with a sense of compassion for my fellow-creatures. I mean, if an imperfect female smears a lot of paint on her skin to make me want to fuck her more .. should I get pissy and angry? I do not think that way. She is trying to register a compliment to me. There are some things worse than that.

How about just not caring what the general public thinks of your pubic hair? Basically she’s saying “I need feminism because I’m insecure”, which I think fuels a lot of them. They can’t stand to be ‘different’ or make their own choices without a bunch of other people in their camp, that’s what draws people to social ideologies like lemmings in the first place.

Makeup kills your skin, so women shouldn’t wear it often. When you get up in the years, every little bit of care you took of yourself over the years makes a big difference. You still have to compete for your man, even if you’re in a relationship or married, so makeup should be costume or dressing up uniform and that’s it.

I’m sure it does make a difference for some women, but for all the trouble and expense, one can simply drink more water, buy vitamins, and eat well. That’s going to do you better than any foundation or creams.

makeup maks me feel at least 1 point more attravtive. in reality, it may or may not make so much a differene. as a matter of fact, the bf keeps saying i’ve got a natual look, there’s no point messing it up. on the other hand, we do not live together, i am not sure what he considers natual is really 99.66% as pure as a bar of ivory soap.

what i have realized is that on days when i do not even bother putting on my usual amount of make-up, which includes some foundation on my face, and some colors to my lips and eyebrows, my sense of self worth is usually also at its bottom. in other words, i am doomed on those days to begin with. the signalling effect of makeup on a girl’s psychological state is not to be underestimated.

I guess it’s hard to say which is more discouraging for marriage prospects: the makeup-less morning-after or the sex-filled night-during. Either way, I hadn’t thought of the makeup piece to the puzzle until now, so quality insight there. Of course, for the American woman, being a disheveled mess is practically a way of life. I especially get this impression when I talk to Latin American women who’ve lived in the US for a bit, they’re shocked at how women go around in public looking so poorly. The relative rarity of makeup is another sign of decline for our sputtering so-called society.

YaReally is a fiend at picking up LA and Vegas coke whores. Aspire to be like her or else you are a loser. YaReally OWNS your frame. She OWNS it. Don’t try for a second to deviate from her script, cuz you don’t know shit about the classy babes in LA or Vegas. Only YaReally’s girls matter. Forget about your upbringing or morals or values. Only YaReally knows. She is LOL. You should aspire to be like YaReally, cuz she hits the bitches that are 9-18. If you aren’t YaReally you don’t deserve to live, cuz your life experience means nothing. Subscribe to YaReally or die. SHE IS THE MAN. If you don’t desire a coke whore then you are NOT a man. Only bar skank coke whores matter. If you want a good woman then you ARE A LOSER. Coke whores ftw.

YaReally, do you think that we would hang out with you, that we would be seen with you? Seriously?

I wanted to be your fan. I’ve wanted to support you, but you’ve gone too far. I’m calling you out. Impose your frame on me, pussy. Here’s the thing: I like you. I think you provide a valuable service with your commentary. But when you dog others who aren’t exactly situated as you, you diminish yourself.

So let’s discuss who’s fucked genuine ten’s. Not you, for sure. If you are in fact fucking coked up LA whores for your jollies, good for you, but those skanks are not 10s; they are whores. Coked up LA whores performing porn to pay the rent are a far cry from what the readers of Chateau seek.

You are such a huge fan of PUA, why don’t you just stay in that niche? You aren’t need on CH. You are an outlier here… relevant on some level, but not really that relevant. Men here seek relationships with bona fide women (not LA or Vegas whores). It’s understandable that you wouldn’t get that, but many men do. Some of us still live in the country, know how to skin a buck and run trot lines. Preach your shit where it’s welcome… LA fag boy.

Or, if you want to really be genuine, spend some time with us. If you come to hate us, at least you would then be justified. If not, you will have to express your masculinity with a little more nuance. Pussy fuck.

Or, better yet, let’s meet in person, so that you can AMOG me with your unshakable frame…in person… to my face… pussy.

Either backtrack or mush for the Chateau to observe, pussy little girl.

Okay, although Yareally and I have our differences of opinion, I see comments like this and my hypocrisy meter starts to ping.

No man, and I do mean NO man who hasn’t had a certain type of life experience truly does not want the coke whores. If nothing else, they trigger your hunting instincts, if not your protective ones.

I have been blessed with many wonderful male friends, not orbiters, but actual talking off a ledge, have your back friends. They are good men, and prefer a decent woman regardless of looks within reason, to have a relationship with. However, to a man, if they haven’t already been through a few hot harpies or facing their mortality regularly, they all get a boner for bimbos. Even some of the danger dudes get the boner, but class that type of chick as a whore or a one nighter. For the most part, they still hit those.

…and well they should. A woman who’s displaying hoe signals should be treated accordingly. There is nothing unnatural or even morally wrong or uncivil about this, so long as one is treating them with basic human respect. This is the role they chose to play in life, so play yours.

So your eye is different. Good for you. I personally am thankful that there are men in the world who make room for girls who are pretty but not the prettiest, and who are not whores. Two guys like this put a ring on it in my lifetime. I am grateful. However, if you use porn, you are wanking mostly to coke whores. So you can’t well look down on a guy who goes out and gets that in three dimensions instead of two.

Guys who think that all hot girls at the club are coke-whores and drunk sluts and blah blah blah are guys who’ve never actually spent time around those girls. Hell, the hottest girls highest-value girls in the club generally don’t even get hammered, because they don’t want to embarrass themselves and fuck their reputation up since they know everyone is watching them. That’s also why you score bonus points with them for being able to approach sober.

But hey, it’s much easier to demonize these girls and paint them with the coke-whore brush than to admit that you would never have a shot with them. Like the butt-hurt guy saying “fuckin’ lesbians” when he gets shot down. It’s just ego-protection in action. And it’s not like enough guys around here approach those girls to back me up on this…this is the perfect echo chamber of jockeys re-enforcing eachother’s inexperienced beliefs lol

(note: there are some guys around here who DO go out, it’s obvious from their writing, and props to you guys for doing so, I have mad respect for you…oddly enough these guys generally aren’t the ones getting involved in retarded racial slurring matches and other nonsense, weird hey?)

Yes, there will always be a contingent of pitiable losers who value ethnic commitment above fraternizing with club sluts. Wouldn’t the world be so much better if everyone abolished ethnic feeling — white men first, of course — and lived just like YaReally?

Hell, the hottest girls highest-value girls in the club generally don’t even get hammered, because they don’t want to embarrass themselves and fuck their reputation up since they know everyone is watching them.

I watched this one really hot girl collect (at least) two drinks from two different guys, and both times it was some kind of seltzer water drink. Go figure.

As someone who frequently fraternizes with club sluts, I have to say that YaReally has a point. The hottest girls generally aren’t coke whores – if they were, their hotness wouldn’t last very long – and rarely get totally shitfaced. Most of the chicks engaging in that type of behavior tend to be the 6s and maybe 7s who think of themselves as 12s which these United States have in such plentiful abundance. Calling them ‘lesbians’ just because they reject you is just silly. Butthurt Little Boy is not a becoming persona. Not even for little boys.

The anonymous commenter is just someone who sniffs out YaReally’s bullshit without being able to fully articulate it. I commend him for the attempt, if not the execution. It plays entirely too much into the totalitarian PUA’s undeserved sense-of-self without illuminating why it is indeed undeserved.

The fact is, YaReally is a dinosaur, going on and on about how game was discovered against all odds back in the day, referring to the same dozen tips presented slightly different. That is interesting as a historical piece, but the conversation (ya)really has moved on. Regardless of what the seminar-pushers say, acquisition of game is relatively simple, and the few tricky parts are easily overcome by motivated herbs.

That means you can only geekily obsess about detail until it starts wearing thin. But the general principles are always open for discussion and refinement, and with his emphasis on experience, YaReally has limited things to say about foundational concepts. This is in stark contrast to the author of this website, who not only finds new ways to revisit old concepts, but does so poetically and with a style that creates an in-depth back-and-forth among smart fans.

If you want to complain about how commenters aren’t sufficiently obsessed with the simple arithmetic of game — like YaReally and his newbie fanboys do, on a loop — or if you want to bitch about how we are not endlessly rehearsing pick-up tips like “back in the day,” take it up first with the web host. His posts and his tone allow for a broad conversation that goes in unexpected directions, which is what makes this site a gathering place unlike any other.

Agreed. I was not able to fully articulate it, and my execution was poor. Your post was bolstering, but ultimately, in my opinion, your analysis missed the mark. The issue with YaReally is not that he is a dinosaur, although he is, but rather that he expresses himself in this community as if he were a god with all the answers. The reason that I personally frequent this community is for the diversity of worldviews, even, especially, those with which I vehemently disagree. I actually learn a fucking ton from people in different camps than me, and I actually come to love them for it (thwack… can’t believe I just wrote that… but, dude, I’ve watched you grow, and I’m impressed). The thing with YaReally, is that he comes to this genuine community and tries to pawn off his version of PUA-learned “framing” on the entire community. It’s insulting. YaReally, I respect your worldview… just don’t come here and try to impose it on us through framing. Deliver your message, whatever it may be, with an ounce of humility and respect for its potential readers. This is a site for men who are finally moving beyond lies. Framing = LIES. We are above framing. I honestly don’t give a shit about someone’s opinion or view. I do however give a shit about truth. To me, that is the issue.

YaReally, clean up your act and I’m a fan, even if I don’t agree with you 100%.

i just went to dc i was unimpressed
been to nyc many time yea some hotties but ahh yea also a shitload of insane people
and strippers from the big cities uglier and are completly souless compared to strippers from the outskirts true story
manhatten strippers some of the ugliest in the world lolzzzz

“For the majority of women, expertly applied makeup adds half a point to 1 point to their facial attractiveness.”

Most definitely disagree here. Expertly applied makeup worth a mere half to one point? Sorry, two points, at least. Other important features, like height (I like ’em tall with legs on), you cannot make up. Fashion is also an important component of the beauty illusion, worth points that subconsciously impact on facial attractiveness. I prefer to begin with the opposite premise to that of most men. My own habit of imagining a woman without makeup on, clothed in nondescript attire (like a tracksuit), helps me to avert those coyote (chew-my-arm-off) moments… no morning-after nasty surprises for me. The prettiest women can look quite average without makeup. There’s no harm in that. Just ask the paparazzi. It pays to learn to see the true woman as she really is, and not as dolled-up eye candy. When she’s prepared herself for a night out with you to look like eye-candy, you might briefly allow yourself the indulgence of enjoying the envious glances that are cast your way, but your knowledge that how she really looks is no big deal would make you a king at least among the faux-alphas who don’t know better.

And then women and anti-gamers wonder why PUAs can’t provide scientific studies backing up half the shit we know about how women and attraction works. How popular would the guy who publishes the study “90% of married women will suck cock in the bathroom of a bar” be? lol

Riiiight. It’s a massive conspiracy that keeps such mythbusting truths like “90% of married women will suck cock in the bathroom of a bar” from the world.

You live in a world of whores. By design. There is a world elsewhere. Your pronouncements on female nature are self-fulfilling prophesies. If you are surrounded by nothing but unmasked, unrefined skeezitude, eventually you come to believe your metrosexual microcosm defines the macro. Your wisdom is the residue of anecdotes.

I’m sorry to discover your mother and sisters had no concept of chastity that redounded to you during your formative years — or the subsequent deformative years which followed your dysfunctional/omega/abusive upbringing.

YaReally has consistently brought his advice and insights to the guys here that want it and that can run with it.

You bring your verbose, ivory tower bullshit.

I want to know what I need to do to improve my game and fuck better looking women than I have in the past. Being rooted in the academia of the manosphere is good but you remind me of a professor with PhDs in management but who has never actually run a business.

YaReally is like the entrepreneur who built his business up and is willing to help other guys do the same.

Ya I’m defending him and call me a dick-rider all you want but what’s going to get you stronger? Reading about weightlifting or actually going to the gym and doing it.

Why are you picking on YaReally? You’re both some of the most consistently interesting, insightful commentators – but you come from completely different realms of experience. You have the erudite, verbally agile expression of a philosophy professor, while he has the more specialized, practical skills of the master electrician. If you met at a party, you’d probably find him stupid, but he’s brilliant – just in a narrower arena.

Just because he’s specialized in game and made it his life doesn’t mean he has nothing to contribute here, or is beneath you. You sound cruel and petty making speculative comments about his childhood.

For me it’s a bit like the movies. If I’m able to suspend my disbelief in the special effects because they are done well enough it’s all fair game. I might have let myself be fooled, but the entertainment value exceeds the disappointment. I don’t blame a woman for my booze goggles either.

Since Heart’s favorite vaginal carrying case is in the news today with her very special video offering to blow Obama, it should be noted that Lena Dunham is a good example for the girls that are ugly so they have to be femmies.

On the show, Girls, Lena is a stone cold 2. Fat, unkempt, and just awful.
When you watch the after the show interviews, in which she’s cleaned up, combed her hair, and put on makeup, she’s a 5.

That is usually either sun damage or the fact that at least some of those joggers used to be much heavier, which will result in some loose skin. Also, people who jog tend to be older. I live in a very ‘outdoorsy’ type environment and I don’t see very many teens and twens jogging…..

Well, I’m a little late in the posting here (like this topic has reached 472!), but here are my thoughts: makeup is, to put it mildly, icky. It is messy. It smears all over the place. It leaves marks on eating utensils and linen. It leads to women engaging in bizarre rituals to “fix their faces.” And when you are in a room full of women wearing makeup, it’s like being surrounded by people wearing masks trying to hide something. Really, an alienating experience.

As for makeup making women more attractive, well, as you point out, maybe in the old days of dating. But you see too many women these days who are out of shape and with poor complexions trying to cover it up by caking every more layers of cosmetics onto their faces. Most men prefer a woman with a firm body and silky skin over one who spends two hours a day staring into a mirror and reaching for the right cosmetic as a junkie goes for the needle.

I suspect that as the female competition for a limited number of “alpha” males gets more fierce, we’ll see ever more numbers of females troweling on the paint. One reason is that makeup creates ascendancy among their peer females, establishing who is at the top of their hallucinated feeding chain as the most “outrageous” — without realizing that they are creating nothing more than grotesque caricatures of themselves.

went “camping” last night
Pulled off on an exit hit the road stopped chilled
looked saw a clearing on side of road
pulled off side
started fucking in the truck
cop pulls up behind us
yea seperate
chick says we were just talking
cop was cool as fuck
said some off duty dude called in said people were running through the woods or something
he said not a problem is you want to stay here and talk or you could walk up there and talk
good advice
my chick in heels slightly muddy
toss her on my back piggyback style
she kissing my neck while i carry her up the hill into the woods
pretty hot
put her down
bunch of leaves on the ground
i do the trip single leg takedown into the leaves and go to work
looking up at stars she workin and tears coming down the cheeks
asked her later why she said nobody has carried her like that and fucked her under the stars
but yea uhh
camping with nothing but yourselves not bad even if a little cold spur of moment

Odd. What about the French, who loathe when women wear makeup? The women there, and in other countries like Italy, certainly wear MUCH less makeup than their American counterparts, and are usually prettier.

I guess I must be one of the weird ones, because I get hit on more when i wear less makeup. I usually only wear mascara. I do have very strong features, though, and very full lips and almond eyes, so I have to use less makeup, otherwise I can quickly look like a clown. I think less is best. Most men, in my old single days before being married, preferred my face in the morning after. What does that tell you..