Last night's dinner, using the Detroit Pizza pans @ 475F, bottom rack. Used 350g of dough instead of the usual 375-400 to get a little faster turnaround on a weeknight.

Skee, that looks delicious! I think I'm going to try to use less dough for my next round, too. I think mine are a bit thicker than many Detroit joints, and I'm trying to experiment to get a crispy bottom. How was your (pizza's) undercarriage?

I sure don’t know if what I did or what Trenton Bill did will help anyone or not.

I still have a lot of work to do even if the formulation is close in getting a different cheese, or cheeses to try and also a different tomato product to try. I also would have to work on getting a better crunch in the bottom of the pie.

Just about perfect - delicate and crispy at the same time, with a medium toast on the entire crust. Had a little more oil on it that ideal, but I didn't see a single slice get set back down on the plate once it was picked up, they just disappeared!

I sure don’t know if what I did or what Trenton Bill did will help anyone or not.

Thanks for pointing out that post about lower hydration - after trying 67% hydration and the 75% recipe from this thread a couple times each, neither works exactly as I want. The first is not delicate enough (although it goes in the pan really easily) and the second is just a little too soft to make panning with minimal oil a real challenge. For my next run I was going to split the difference and go with 71% but I'll give 70% a shot and see how it works.

Thanks for pointing out that post about lower hydration - after trying 67% hydration and the 75% recipe from this thread a couple times each, neither works exactly as I want. The first is not delicate enough (although it goes in the pan really easily) and the second is just a little too soft to make panning with minimal oil a real challenge. For my next run I was going to split the difference and go with 71% but I'll give 70% a shot and see how it works.

Skee,

I have never really tried a real Buddy’s pizza, so I have no idea is what I made was even close. My TF was way off too. I did make some attempts on a Jet’s pizza, but don’t know if they were right either.

Best of luck in whatever hydration you decide to use. I will be looking forward to your results.

As I noted previously, Buddy's added Nutrition information for its pizzas to its website, at http://www.buddyspizza.com/nutrition.asp?Category=3. At the time, I got excited but that excitement abated almost immediately when I discovered that there was no weight information given for their pizzas. That made it very difficult to use the Nutrition information for reverse engineering and cloning purposes. However, I decided to revisit the Buddy's Nutrition information again today as a result of my assisting Norma with her attempt at a Buddy's clone pizza. What she has been doing in this regard is set forth in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg217567.html#msg217567.

In revisiting the Buddy's Nutrition information today, I was puzzled by the recitation of a "Slice" as the serving size. The reason I was puzzled is that I had been previously told that Buddy's uses an 8" x 10" pan for their 4-square pizza and a 10" x 14" pan for their 8-square pizza. I had previously reported on this at Reply 126 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436/topicseen.html#msg81436. What I couldn't tell is whether the "Slice" was a slice from a 4-square pizza or from an 8-square pizza. So, I decided to send an email to Buddy's to get clarification. That led to the following exchanges between me and Buddy's, which also included an exchange on the amount of cheese that Buddy's uses on its pizzas:

Me: I have been looking at the Nutrition Facts for your pizzas at your website. Can you tell me if a "Slice" refers to a slice from the larger pan or the smaller pan? As best I can tell, the two slices would have different weights. Also, as one who is watching his weight, can you tell me how much cheese is used on the two sizes of pizzas (I think you call them four-squares and eight-squares)?

Buddy's: The slices are the same size in a 4-square pizza as in an 8-square pizza. The only difference is the number of slices offered.

We use almost 1 lb. (16 oz.) of cheese on an 8-squre pizza. This works out to approximately 2 oz. per slice.

Me: Thank you very much for your reply. However, I am still a bit confused. I was told by a friend that the 4-square pizzas are baked in an 8" x 10" pan and that the 8-square pizzas are baked in a 10" x 14" pan. Since the larger pan is not twice the size as the smaller pan, wouldn't the sizes of the slices be different for the two pans?

Buddy's: All our pizzas are hand-made and toppings (to include cheese) are hand applied. The nutritional values on our website are approximations because of this. The quantity of dough used in our 4-square pizza and the amount of cheese hand-applied is half of what we use/apply on our 8-square pizza. Please also note that our pizzas are hand-cut. Each slice therefore, is not necessarily the same size every time.

The above exchange adds a bit more about their pizzas than we were previously able to divine from all of our research. As previously noted at Reply 126 referenced above, Buddy's reportedly uses 15 ounces of cheese on its 8-square pizzas. So, for the 4-square pizzas, one would use half of that, or 7.5 ounces. We also now know that the 4-square pizza uses half the amount of dough as the 8-square pizza. I think I have a rough idea of dough ball weights but I need to do more work to see if I am correct.

Unfortunately, I was unable to confirm the use of 15 ounces of brick cheese for the 8-square pizza in the Buddy's Nutrition information. As was noted in the EDIT of 12/11/10 to Reply 126 referenced above, Buddy's reportedly turned to Foremost Farms for its brick cheese. At one point, Buddy's even so noted that on their menus. That is no longer the case. However, if Buddy's is still using Foremost, the only brick cheese offering that I could find at the foodservice part of Foremost's website is the one described at http://www.foremostfarms.com/Commercial/pdfs/Nutritional%20Information/NDS_Brick.pdf. Unfortunately, the Nutritional information for that cheese, and notably the cholesterol content, does not line up with Buddy's Nutrition information. Norma plans to use another brand of brick cheese for her Buddy's clones, from Great Lakes. The specifications for the Great Lakes brick cheese can be seen at Reply 72 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg220464.html#msg220464. If one compares the two brands of brick cheese, it will be seen that they are quite similar. My level of discomfit with the Buddy's Nutrition information is such that I do not think that such information is reliable and may even be incorrect or inaccurate.

Great detective work on your part again in your questioning and logic. It will be interesting to hear what your rough idea of dough balls weights are both size pizzas, after you do more work. It is also interesting that there are new amounts of cheese to use on the two sizes of pizzas.

I can understand your level of discomfort with Buddy’s Nutrition information.

Made two pans with the 70% hydration dough (used the PizzaHog recipe with just the water varied) last night and it was probably the best version so far. This dough was very easy to work with once warmed to room temp (did a 48-hr cold ferment), stretching to the edges with no pulling back from the corners. The dough was then given a 2-hr rise in a 150F oven. See first pic - it rose about one inch (350g per pan) and was very light, covered with small bubbles, and it fell slightly as I dressed it. Second pic shows the cheese version as my son prefers it - lots of fresh basil on top with half sauced on top, half under the cheese. Third and fourth pics show the crust for each pizza - it was light and soft inside, nicely crisp and crunchy on the outside, a small step up from the 75% hydration version. Fifth pic shows the edge - baked at 495F on the second lowest shelf, 18 minutes for the cheese, 21 for the veggie. The last pic is of the Detroit Style Pizza pans - great pans right out of the box and they just get better with successive uses (I wipe them clean and then apply a thin layer of fresh oil and put them back in the oven while it cools).

The cold ferment works better for my weekday schedule but I want to try this with just a couple hours of room-temp rise, see how the 70% version works.

Your two pans of pizzas sure look very tasty! It is good that you found the 70% hydration dough easy to work with. I really like your choice of toppings.

I find it interesting that your dough only rose about 1” after proofing and you proofed your dough in the pan in a 2-hr. rise in a 150 degree F oven. I also only had about a 1” rise yesterday in my pan and I had tempered the dough for 4 hrs. at room temperature.

What kind of flour did you use for your pizzas and what kind of oil did you use?

I used KAAP flour and the oil in the pan is peanut on the bottom with a little crisco wiped on the sides and in the corners (just enough to see a thin white line in the corners) - each time I use the pans I need just a little less oil, this time it took maybe a tablespoon per pan and I could have used less (the pizzas almost popped themselves out onto the cooling rack).

I doubt that I could have gotten the dough to rise much more without over-proofing it. Next round I think I'll go back to 400g per small pan and increase the cooking time by a couple of minutes or lower the stone to the lowest rack position.

I used KAAP flour and the oil in the pan is peanut on the bottom with a little crisco wiped on the sides and in the corners (just enough to see a thin white line in the corners) - each time I use the pans I need just a little less oil, this time it took maybe a tablespoon per pan and I could have used less (the pizzas almost popped themselves out onto the cooling rack).

I doubt that I could have gotten the dough to rise much more without over-proofing it. Next round I think I'll go back to 400g per small pan and increase the cooking time by a couple of minutes or lower the stone to the lowest rack position.

Skee,

Thank you for telling me what kind of flour and oiled you used. Your dough did look like it was proofed just right in your steel pans. Will be looking forward to see how 400 grams of dough and your other methods work.

As a reminder, Buddy's uses a bromated flour. That would rule out all all-purpose flours since they are not bromated. That means that something like a bromated bread flour or high-gluten flour would be used by Buddy's.

That means that something like a bromated bread flour or high-gluten flour would be used by Buddy's.

Noted. Using KASL instead of KAAP is on the list of variables to try - I figure 70% with KASL will be easier to pan up. Having never experienced a Buddy's myself, don't know what a true clone would taste like, but so far the trials have all been quite delicious!

I attempted my first Detroit style pizza last night and it was a disaster! I used one of my new pans from Detroit Style Pizza Co. and the cheese stuck badly to the sides even after brushing the pan with ample peanut oil. No doubt, I screwed something up. The dough did rise at room temperature for close to 6 hours. Maybe that was part of the problem as Hog's recipe only called for a 3-4 hour rise.

Part of the problem, I'm sure, is that I used lots of mushrooms, onions, and bell peppers along with the linguica and Italian sausage on top of the cheese which caused the crust to be soggy even after a 18 minute bake at 475 on the lowest rack in my oven. I used medium white cheddar cheese on the edges and a combination of the white cheddar cheese and whole milk mozzarella in the middle. I most likely used too much cheese as well. The pizza was a soggy mess.

Anyway, what is the best way to clean the gunk stuck to the sides and bottom of the pan without using water prior to my second attempt? The cheese is really stuck on the sides of the pan hardcore!

The next time I will let the dough rise for only 3-4 hours, leave the vegetables off, and cut back on the cheese. I'm determined! Suggestions would be appreciated!