Atheist Nexus2015-08-02T22:39:03ZJack Matirkohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JackMatirkohttp://api.ning.com/files/YeATg*rN2zDVc3YR2nSeENBtld3KomiZXZeZoUjUmbO929Y0tgVdnfpIoU5TD9G6Kptw8JxpdNIOvbB7qV07t0lsc1CkAp2nZj*liyKFewA_/Jack.jpg?width=48&height=48&crop=1%3A1http://atheistnexus.org/group/strongatheists/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=159378ykr0h22&feed=yes&xn_auth=noStrong atheist input on "Prayer Rape"tag:atheistnexus.org,2013-05-06:2182797:Topic:22275802013-05-06T14:41:38.569ZJack Matirkohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JackMatirko
<p>I will probably be forced to sit through illegal and unconstitutional prayers at my daughter's public university graduation ceremony in SC this week. A religious friend told me, "You don't have to join in." This struck me as being similar to telling rape victims to lie back and enjoy themselves. I'm curious if my fellow strong atheists find the expression "Prayer Rape" too offensive, about right, or not an accurate analogy.</p>
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<p>The sense of violation when you are stuck in a…</p>
<p>I will probably be forced to sit through illegal and unconstitutional prayers at my daughter's public university graduation ceremony in SC this week. A religious friend told me, "You don't have to join in." This struck me as being similar to telling rape victims to lie back and enjoy themselves. I'm curious if my fellow strong atheists find the expression "Prayer Rape" too offensive, about right, or not an accurate analogy.</p>
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<p>The sense of violation when you are stuck in a public meeting with an authority figure speaking on your behalf and offering thanks to some god(s) you don't believe in AND find to be toxic for the better functioning of society, is very uncomfortable. From a linguistic point of view, rape (From Latin. 'to seize') seems to be a good term.</p>
<p>I think we will do better in debates over public prayer if we have a more forceful expression than 'it makes me feel uncomfortable.' Any suggestions?</p>
<p><a href="http://api.ning.com:80/files/zkGb0X42pMSQtwsJw6jRXkXLCduRB8H3cuN8VKAga7*O4oksrwlP72aqhFBdbr3zBKpNG5-waOm0N0xBgAAZkjxT5ak4aSdy/PrayerRape.jpg" target="_self">PrayerRape.jpg</a></p> A great talk by PZ Myers.tag:atheistnexus.org,2012-04-18:2182797:Topic:19296602012-04-18T17:51:34.930ZJack Matirkohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JackMatirko
<p>I just read the talk given by PZ Myers at the Global Atheist convention and loved it! It had me saying Yes! Yes! when he talked about science, and had me in tears when he talked about us being a social species.<br></br> <br></br>It was a long read, but well worth it. Here’s a few select passages that impressed me. <br></br>They are less than half of his talk and the ideas will not fit together as well as his complete talk, but you can read the entire talk at:…<br></br><br></br></p>
<p>I just read the talk given by PZ Myers at the Global Atheist convention and loved it! It had me saying Yes! Yes! when he talked about science, and had me in tears when he talked about us being a social species.<br/> <br/>It was a long read, but well worth it. Here’s a few select passages that impressed me. <br/>They are less than half of his talk and the ideas will not fit together as well as his complete talk, but you can read the entire talk at:<br/><br/><a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/04/15/sunday-sacrilege-sacking-the-city-of-god/">http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/04/15/sunday-sacrilege-sacking-the-city-of-god/</a><br/><br/>“The most brilliant thing Christianity ever did was to take that idea of the Word, that concept of identity wrapped up in an abstract set of ideas and stories, and to open it up to everyone. Aww, Rome fell? You’re all alone? Here, we can help you find yourself, we can give a new meaning to your life, we have a standard that you can hold high and find unity with a greater people. It’s called the Bible.</p>
<p><br/>I repeat, absolutely brilliant. It made Christianity bulletproof.</p>
<p><br/>Cities fall. Kings die. Bloodlines fade. But ideas can go on and on and on. Now, a 21st century person can feel continuity with a 5th century priest; an American can share a central element of their self with someone in South Africa, with someone in China, with someone in Australia; heck, with someone on the space station, or walking on the moon.</p>
<p><br/>Ideas can change the world.</p>
<p><br/>This is something atheists share in common with Christians; you’ll get no argument from the believers in any religion that ideas can change the world. It’s what they’ve been doing for thousands of years, usually for the worse.</p>
<p><br/>But….You can kill an idea.</p>
<p><br/>Read the pronouncements of popes and archbishops, read the newspapers and web columns, look to the priests in their pulpits, and you’ll see something wonderful: they are reacting to the rise of the New Atheists in the same way the Roman establishment reacted to the Visigoths appearing on the horizon. I cannot blame them for being fearful; we are galloping towards the central ideas of their identity, and we aim to tear down their walls and replace their obsolete myths with change and something more vital.</p>
<p><br/>Deep in their heart of hearts, they fear that a sequel to St Augustine’s City of God is in the works, and it’s going to be written by an atheist…and it will speak of a brand new world and new opportunities, it will create a new ecumene of people united under something other than the folly of faith.</p>
<p><br/>So how do you kill an idea? How will we sack the city of faith? By coming up with a better, more powerful idea.<br/>Fortunately, our idea has been incubating for a few centuries, and has involved multitudes of our civilization’s greatest minds.</p>
<p><br/>It’s called science.</p>
<p><br/>Science is our weapon, our god-killer. It’s the greatest tool humanity has ever invented — it’s taken us from a hodge-podge of bickering near-savages living in the mud and dying young of disease and childbirth and starvation and sword-pokes to a hodge-podge of bickering near-savages who sometimes walk on the moon, who sometimes cure diseases, who live twice as long as our predecessors, who can look deep into cells or far out to distant galaxies. It has given us great power to accomplish marvelous things or to screw up the whole planet.</p>
<p><br/>Science also has the power to transform our sense of identity. Some of us are no longer People of the Word, members of a special tribe bound together by the narratives and rules in quaint old books. We are instead the People of Reality: we are united by common knowledge, by a sense of universality, by our commitment to evidence.</p>
<p><br/>The words of my people are written in the strands of DNA I find in every cell of my body, and the story they tell is clear and inspiring. We are all products of the natural world; stars died to create the elements we are made of, and 4 billion years of churning life struggled and was born and died to shape us. We are close kin to every single human being on the planet, without exception — there is no tribe that is outside our family. And even deeper, we are related to every living thing on earth. You simply cannot get any more universal than the scientific story of life.</p>
<p><br/>There’s another reason I can take pride in science. Science has real power. Science actually works. But maybe I should actually take a moment to define what science is.</p>
<p><br/>Science is the process that does its damnedest to figure out how stuff actually works, rather than how we wished it worked.</p>
<p><br/>You know, I kinda wish peach pits actually cured cancer, but I think it’s more important to do the experiments and measure the results and see if they really do…because if they don’t, I think it would be a good idea for people to move on to more effective treatments.</p>
<p>When theologians argue, they try to resolve differences by turning to murky sources remote from anything fundamental: they open their holy texts, they cite fellow theologians, they try to reinterpret words that have been reinterpreted many times before. Have you ever heard scientists argue, though? They do all the time. But they don’t resolve issues by appealing to higher authorities: they don’t usually argue that because Richard Dawkins said it, it’s settled. They don’t argue that we have to parse Charles Darwin’s words a little more finely to arrive at the truth.</p>
<p><br/>No, they say, “I’m going into the lab and do an experiment to test that proposition.”<br/>They say, “I’m going to build a new instrument to measure that and see who’s right.” Our only authority is reality, and that’s what we test all of our inferences against.</p>
<p><br/>Science and religion are in opposition. Faith is the atheist’s enemy. Remember, science is a process for figuring out how the world actually works. If you short-circuit the process and declare that you already have the answer, you just have to believe, then you are an enemy of science. If you simply assert your desired conclusion, and ignore the fact that reality is rarely about the answer you want, you’re an enemy of science. Truth is often uncomfortable, you have to value it because it is true, not because it makes you feel good.</p>
<p><br/>Perhaps you’re a moderate, you support good science, education, and the environment, you just love Jesus or Mohammed, too.</p>
<p><br/>I’m sorry, but I don’t like you. I’ll concede that you are doing less direct harm, and I will thank you for your support of shared causes, and I’ll also happily work alongside you in those causes, but I also think you are still doing indirect harm to foundational principles of a rational society. You believe in some outrageous bullshit.</p>
<p><br/>You promote unreason by telling people that it is OK to believe in some things without evidence, and even in contradiction to evidence and reason. You are cafeteria realists, and you undermine the essential goal of bringing the whole of humanity out of the darkness of ignorance and into the light of the real world.</p>
<p><br/>I tell such people that the universe is clearly lacking in gods and supernatural forces, so grow up and set all that nonsense aside. Join us and become a good atheist — you’ll be much happier and will waste less time in pointless just-pretend foolishness</p>
<p><br/>We (atheists) are not sheep. We love people who stand up for themselves, we detest people who try to impose rules on us —</p>
<p><br/>we find common cause with the people who have also been oppressed by this racist patriarchal culture we live in</p>
<p><br/>I can think of no clearer example than a struggle that has riven the online atheist community for the last year or two, the effort to acknowledge the role of women in atheism. For years, the face of atheism has been white, male, and middle-aged, and a certain complacency had settled in — women by default had their role, as wives or organizers, and we had adopted a casually masculine expectation that all of our intellectual leaders would look like, well, me. Atheist meetings looked a lot like meetings of the Mormon leadership.</p>
<p><br/>women have even more reason to be pissed off at religion than men, and they are a fast-growing segment of our community.</p>
<p><br/>Our ranks are swelling with fierce independent women who are changing us, making us stronger and louder, and standing up for their causes and making all of us fight for women’s rights, reproductive freedom, and equality of opportunity.</p>
<p><br/>If you are a human being with real world concerns, who wants to change the world, who wants to contribute in a unique way that encourages those diverse views, then you should be one of us.</p>
<p><br/>The club is only closed to people who fuss about an imaginary afterlife, getting right with an imaginary god, conforming to an arbitrary dogma, and who think the most useless act of all, prayer, is a contribution you deserve thanks for.</p>
<p><br/>Three weeks ago, we had a wonderful meeting in Washington DC,the Reason Rally. 20,000 people gathered together in utterly miserable weather — it was cold, and it rained all day. I walked around in the crowds, and you know what? Everyone was smiling. Nobody was complaining (except for the cranky protesters on the fringe). The policemen monitoring the crowd were smiling. Goddamn, if I were the Grinch my heart would have grown three sizes that day.</p>
<p><br/>We are a social species, and we thrive in communities, it’s how we have survived and grown so far. And atheists, contrary to some of our critics, are fully human, not aliens at all.</p>
<p><br/>This willing cooperativity is something we have to value. We humans are different from other species in this regard.</p>
<p><br/>You know that in the childhood of our species, we were prey to the predators of the African continent. Alone, we were soft, weak, and tasty, and I’m sure the lions and leopards enjoyed a hominid snack. But together…I’m sure that when some ferocious big cat came upon a tribe of humans, together, and when they all turned 10 or 15 pairs of eyes on the predator and reached for stones and sharpened sticks, that cat felt fear and slunk away. Those eyes, those hunter’s eyes on the front of the face…when a group of us turn those eyes in cold calculation on any problem, when our hands work together, we are the most powerful force on the planet.</p>
<p><br/>Yesterday I was listening to our Christian protesters outside, and I thought, “Huh. So that’s what you get when you give a sheep a microphone, amplified bleating.” There they were, calling on everyone to deny the richness of human experience and join the flock in the narrow boring confines of the sheep pen.</p>
<p><br/>You are not sheep. You, my brothers and sisters in atheism, are a fierce, coordinated hunting pack — men and women working together, and those other bastards have cause to fear us. So let’s do it: make them tremble as we demolish the city of god.”</p> "From The Gallows: A Modern Day Abolitionist"tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-12-23:2182797:Topic:17948492011-12-23T12:55:12.942ZJack Matirkohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JackMatirko
<p><a href="http://api.ning.com:80/files/VMsvMz7lfvU*RBXfbgqiT0ubjTuxvGd8STZKLh-erdiCwocgEkq3-S9uaOk3fSz7NpmFV25Gw4-Hc0yiRqEevONsfixOkat2/weare99newnew.jpg" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://api.ning.com:80/files/VMsvMz7lfvU*RBXfbgqiT0ubjTuxvGd8STZKLh-erdiCwocgEkq3-S9uaOk3fSz7NpmFV25Gw4-Hc0yiRqEevONsfixOkat2/weare99newnew.jpg?width=750" width="750"></img></a></p>
<p>Fellow Atheist:</p>
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<p>People are afraid, intimidated, or ignorant of the public need for economic/philosophic change.<br></br> Instead, it’s time we abolish these deceptive business practices that, in a sadistic arrangement, <b>will actually benefit no one</b>.<br></br> Let the concept of capitalism and…</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://api.ning.com:80/files/VMsvMz7lfvU*RBXfbgqiT0ubjTuxvGd8STZKLh-erdiCwocgEkq3-S9uaOk3fSz7NpmFV25Gw4-Hc0yiRqEevONsfixOkat2/weare99newnew.jpg"><img class="align-full" src="http://api.ning.com:80/files/VMsvMz7lfvU*RBXfbgqiT0ubjTuxvGd8STZKLh-erdiCwocgEkq3-S9uaOk3fSz7NpmFV25Gw4-Hc0yiRqEevONsfixOkat2/weare99newnew.jpg?width=750" width="750"/></a></p>
<p>Fellow Atheist:</p>
<p></p>
<p>People are afraid, intimidated, or ignorant of the public need for economic/philosophic change.<br/> Instead, it’s time we abolish these deceptive business practices that, in a sadistic arrangement, <b>will actually benefit no one</b>.<br/> Let the concept of capitalism and corporate greed to hang and swing from the gallows, to waste away in its own filth and ruin.<br/> <br/> As members of the slave class, we must speak our opposition loud and clear.<br/> For acceptance, for unity, for those who encourage others and lead them towards enlightenment.<br/> <br/> “If we must fight for our human rights; remember, they are only broken bones.<br/> Wounds will heal but deception is forever.”<br/> -Kenneth Neal, A Modern Day Abolitionist</p>
<p><a href="http://evilforalltime.blogspot.com/2011/12/from-gallows-modern-day-abolitionist.html" target="_blank">http://evilforalltime.blogspot.com/2011/12/from-gallows-modern-day-abolitionist.html</a></p> Podcast Upload- Herman Cain: The Organ Grinder Monkeytag:atheistnexus.org,2011-12-04:2182797:Topic:17580562011-12-04T12:32:43.352ZJack Matirkohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JackMatirko
<div class="discussion"><div class="description"><div class="xg_user_generated"><div><div><div><div><div><p>Much like a virus, spreading its RNA genetic code onto its host, Americans For Prosperity will allow Herman Cain to spew its hateful and divisive business practices.</p>
<p> <a href="http://soundcloud.com/kenefat/herman-masterfile03" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://soundcloud.com/kenefat/herman-masterfile03</a></p>
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<p>Enter Kenneth Neal (you can call me Ken): Age, 29, an…</p>
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<div class="discussion"><div class="description"><div class="xg_user_generated"><div><div><div><div><div><p>Much like a virus, spreading its RNA genetic code onto its host, Americans For Prosperity will allow Herman Cain to spew its hateful and divisive business practices.</p>
<p> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://soundcloud.com/kenefat/herman-masterfile03" target="_blank">http://soundcloud.com/kenefat/herman-masterfile03</a></p>
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<p>Enter Kenneth Neal (you can call me Ken): Age, 29, an activist/journalist, scholarship-winning poet and a sci-fi novelist by trade.</p>
<p>The premise of this work could be considered the fusion from the likes of Frederick Douglass / Stan Lee / Harvey Milk / Karl Marx.</p>
<p>A social journalist doing my part to promote social, cultural, and class destruction awareness with my blog.</p>
<p>Blog entries are now being recorded, captured, and uploaded via Soundcloud on my behalf.</p>
<p>I invite you to a challenging conversation detailing critical points within modern Capitalism &amp; Christianity:</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://evilforalltime.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://evilforalltime.blogspot.com</a></p>
<p>(when you see Karl Marx, you know you've reached the right destination)</p>
<p>Thank you for your time.<br/> <br/> If you have any questions after viewing my work, feel free to let me know.<br/> <br/> -Ken Neal, Atlanta, GA<br/> Facebook, "Ken E-FAT"<br/> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://evilforalltime.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://evilforalltime.blogspot.com</a><br/> Contributor @ Political Fail Blog:<br/> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.politicalfailblog.com/2011/09/ken-neal-writer.html" target="_blank">http://www.politicalfailblog.com/2011/09/ken-neal-writer.html</a></p>
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</div> clean, sober, AND SANE!tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-11-03:2182797:Topic:17185792011-11-03T00:29:31.531ZJack Matirkohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JackMatirko
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014037" style="right: auto;">clean sober, AND SANE!</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_1320173790140229"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_1320173790140231">As far as I can tell, all the Evangelicals are promoting is that you should become one of their group by going along with their <span id="yiv1059246103misspell-0"><span id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_1_13201981012187258">consensus</span></span>.…</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014037" style="right: auto;">clean sober, AND SANE!</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_1320173790140229"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_1320173790140231">As far as I can tell, all the Evangelicals are promoting is that you should become one of their group by going along with their <span id="yiv1059246103misspell-0"><span id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_1_13201981012187258">consensus</span></span>.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_1320173790140596"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_1320173790140598">Unfortunately I have lots of contact with them via various community groups. One of them really tried to bully and denigrate me in this last week. I stood up for myself ferociously!</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901401096"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901401098">See most of them try to come off as nice, instead of mean. So what they are is creepy.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901401352"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901401354">There has to be some way of standing up to them. Its not just a matter of arguing them down because they are not rational. Its not just that they have faith, as they don't really. They just have a belief system, and ideology.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901401954"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901401956">More and more I am coming to see just how strong is the relationship with drugs and alcohol. A high percentage of them have such a history and being Saved means staying clean and sober. I'm all for clean and sober, but I also think it important to be sane.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901402668"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901402670">A while back someone offered to show me some of the non-religious and non-higher power substance abuse programs. Its not for me, rather its just to counter these groups of crazies that I now would like to know about such things. So please, if you know, please share them with me.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901403440"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901403442">I think I am also seeing something else. I have never felt attracted to drugs or alcohol. Mostly its just that I've always seen such as peer pressure phenomenon, group identity. I have always opposed this kind of thinking. So I have never felt any such pressure. Some people say that they are vulnerable in some non-sober social environments. Well for me it wouldn't matter where I was, I would not be vulnerable. Usually I keep my distance from anything like that.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901404795"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901404797">But its the same with me and the group dynamic aspects of relgion. It all has always rubbed me the wrong way. It feels like attempted manipulation of the emotions. Escapism is not something I seek.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901405261"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901405263">I'll say this one thing. The social justice stuff of the Evangelicals has an urgency to it. Actually I should not call it social justice because they don't see it as such. That is, our country could still be practicing slavery, and they would be worried about getting individuals Saved.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901406076"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901406078">So I should say that their Out Reach Ministries have a sense of urgency about them. They can't just sit and wait and let things play out. The Second Comming is expected soon.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901406566"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901406568">"Jesus will come for his own. But there is still time for more people to get Saved."</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901406827"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901406829">I told this person via email that I want our country to have universal health care, free and well funded public schools, an economic safety net, and separation of church and state.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901407377"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901407379">I picked my items carefully as I knew some would resonate with her. It was also my implied point that it is because of the Evangelical Movement that we don't have such already.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901407849"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901407851">Know what she said? "You want a lot. But what are you doing?"</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901408064"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901408066">I have fought for justice my entire life. But she seems not to understand the political dimension. She means what am I doing in terms of 1000 Points of Light non-governmental charity.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901408662"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901408664">My point was that its because of Evangelical thinking that are society is in such a mess.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901409062"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_13201737901409064">I think my main objection to it is not that their is some sort of faith in a higher power behind it, as that sort of faith gives one strength to fight on against odds. Rather its that this is not what it is about. They are concerned with who is saved and who is not and who is born again and who is not and who is a believer and who is not and who is a christian and who is not.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014010174"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014010176">Even when they don't say these things they are intentionally using language which presupposes it and makes it so that silence implies consent.</div>
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<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014010538">Actually what makes matters urgent is Capitalism. That is what is destroying the environment and making an unworkable society and making for wars. So no, none of us can sit still. The situation is serious and is getting ever more so. We can't afford to sit still.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014011055"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014011057">Evangelicals had been out of politics, often not even registered to vote, from the 1920's Scopes Trial up until the mid 70's. Its people like Heritage Institue founder Paul Weyrich who figured out how to bring them out. The main issue that drove them was that the federal government was tying to enforce the '64 and '65 Civil Rights Acts on Bob Jones University in South Carolina, to end racial discrimination. They did not shift their focus to gays and abortion until later.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014012534"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014012536">Jimmy Carter was a Southern Baptist Sunday School Teacher who certainly spoke their language. But they dumped him for the Hollywood Divorcee Playboy Ronald Reagan. Its been down hill from there ever since!</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014013165"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014013167">This person I alluded to told me her church is watching a movie called "Countdown Jerusalem". Its just like what it sounds like it is. I was aghast.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014013539"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014013541">They want to read the entire Bible as prohpecy. I don't mean speaking truth to power, I mean a prediction of the future. The whole thing is a build up to Revelations.</div>
<div> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014013996">That is insanity! But its there underlying everything they say. Their social justice is more like trying to score points.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014014347"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014014349">"People read the Bible but I don't understand why they don't apply it."</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_16_13201981012181868"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_16_13201981012181870">This woman also has an exhusband who still beats her up. He was with her at a mega-church service and she did not like it. She turned to him and said, "Everyone here is so positive. The problem is in your head. You are the negative one." Since she has said that she is not sure if he really was Saved.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_16_13201981012183397"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_16_13201981012183399">Well, obviously there is a problem. But the way she is using these "positive" events and their doctrine is also abusive. The people in such places are creepy. So is their doctrine of submission.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014014594"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014014596">Years and years ago I once visited a Bahi Church. Once was enough. But I recognized something smart in their literature. On page 1 it says that all prophecies have already been fulfilled. You have to do this.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014015231"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014015234">People don't want to accept that this is it, no more prophecies, no End Time to run out, nothing. This is it.</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014015551"> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_15_132017379014015553">The urgency should be over the continuing insanity of Capitalism, and its consequences.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt7ztdrjN3s">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt7ztdrjN3s</a></div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_16_13201981012181855"> </div>
<div> </div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_16_13201981012181852" style="right: auto;">Three time I have tried to start my own group on this Atheist Nexus. They are always pending moderator approval. Then they vanish. So I assume they are not approved. Is their some special requirement for getting one approved?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Becoming Other</div>
<div id="yiv1059246103yui_3_2_0_16_13201981012181850" style="right: auto;"><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/aboutbecomingother/">http://sites.google.com/site/aboutbecomingother/</a></div> not leaving anything for the enemytag:atheistnexus.org,2011-10-01:2182797:Topic:16774132011-10-01T19:36:12.167ZJack Matirkohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JackMatirko
<p> had written before about trying to answer the evangelical statements of a recovering alcoholic Pentecostal friend. This had to rest some. But now it seems to be developing again.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In this area my real concern has always been to leave them NOTHING. I don't want to leave them anything which they can use to claim legitimacy for their movement.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So while some might want to approach this by making a positivistic claim of atheism, I've always felt that that…</p>
<p> had written before about trying to answer the evangelical statements of a recovering alcoholic Pentecostal friend. This had to rest some. But now it seems to be developing again.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In this area my real concern has always been to leave them NOTHING. I don't want to leave them anything which they can use to claim legitimacy for their movement.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So while some might want to approach this by making a positivistic claim of atheism, I've always felt that that amounts to running away with one's tail between one's legs. It lets them still claim that their movement and their collective language and idolatry are somehow legitimate.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So instead of that I want to attack the legitimacy of their claim to ownership of each of their things, without showing any sings of submission to any of it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Any claims of non-belief just add legitimacy to their claims that there are some who are in and some who are out.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Consider for example the following:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>"</p>
<p>WE ALL FALL SHORT. WE ARE ALL SINNERS. AND THATS WHY WE NEED A SAVIOR. WE WERE GIVEN ONE AND ITS OUR CHOICE TO ACCEPT OR NOT TO ACCEPT.</p>
<p>"</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So it is very tricky how to respond to this sort of an argument. Its a theocratic argument. Like all theocratic arguments its about power and a claim to legitimacy. If one denies the falling short or being sinners, or the existence of the savior, then one only fuels the evangelical position that they have their own privileged world.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So first of all I don't want to leave them a privileged claim to the Bible. Second, I don't really want to leave them with ownership of God. I don't want to leave them with a privileged claim to Salvation.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't want to leave them anything. I don't even want to leave them scorched earth, as that is still something, still a place to stand. So I don't want to retreat. I want to totally dissolve the legitimacy of the views they are trying to promote.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now this Pentecostal Alcoholic is someone I think highly of and she holds a great deal of influence and has as also suffered greatly in family life. So I don't wish to antagonize her personally. Alcoholism, drugs, evangelical Christianity, they are all sort of the same as I see it.</p>
<p><br/>**************************************************************</p>
<p><br/>So in response to her general line I responded,<br/>"<br/>The problem is that people use such things to promote subservience to them and to a social group. So it becomes necessary to put up defenses and keep one's spirituality a private matter.<br/>"</p>
<p>So I am not seeding to her God, the Bible, or Salvation. I am not disagreeing with her, as that would fuel her evangelical claim that their are heathens and sinners who need to be saved. I don't want to leave her anything, nothing at all.</p>
<p>My argument is of a usual type, I don't want to disagree as that fuels them. But I don't want to in any way agree or in anyway make any statement of faith, as that amounts to appeasement. It makes it that much harder for the next person to refuse.</p>
<p>Most religious groups offer appeasement to the evangelicals. Marcus Borg writes of being Born Again, but as wee understand it. This is appeasement. He should know better, but as his wife is an Episcopalian Priest and they have their own version of the Born Again Movement, he needs to do it.</p>
<p>Mostly I am responding to this Pentecostal's making a claim of absolute objective reality, and of doing it publicly. This is standard for Evangelicals. But it is this aspect of it which I am objecting to. So I tell her how such statements are used for control.</p>
<p>This parallels the Foucault Chomsky debates. Chomsky kept going on about what is natural and expected Foucault to argue. Foucault instead focused on looking at how claims to what is natural are used to gain power.</p>
<p>If my friend goes on further with emotional expression, I am ready. Once a guy had said to me about my suggestion that such religious views should not be publicized, "I can't keep quite about it." Probably true he can't, as it does seem to work like alcoholism. But I am ready for such now. I can talk about the full range of emotional experience and how cults suppress this, and about how none of us need motivationalism.</p>
<p>If she goes to the Bible, I am ready. Once she said, "You can't argue with what is written." I am ready.</p> Petition to shut down the White House Office of Faith Based Initiativestag:atheistnexus.org,2011-09-29:2182797:Topic:16749052011-09-29T05:55:44.865ZJack Matirkohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JackMatirko
<p>This is a very important petition. Check out this AN <a target="_blank" href="http://www.atheistnexus.org/profiles/blogs/shutting-down-the-white-house-office-of-faith-based-initiatives">Blog.</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Or you can check out the petition on the whitehouse.gov website directly at:</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://wh.gov/gSE">http://wh.gov/gSE</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you agree, please sign it and spread the word.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks!!!!</p>
<p>This is a very important petition. Check out this AN <a target="_blank" href="http://www.atheistnexus.org/profiles/blogs/shutting-down-the-white-house-office-of-faith-based-initiatives">Blog.</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Or you can check out the petition on the whitehouse.gov website directly at:</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://wh.gov/gSE">http://wh.gov/gSE</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you agree, please sign it and spread the word.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks!!!!</p> Atheist pride bracelets are back!tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-08-13:2182797:Topic:15286192011-08-13T17:09:46.209ZJack Matirkohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JackMatirko
<p>Well i had a good turn out last year and had many pending requests to bring them back this year. And i did just that! they are back and at a new price of 2$ each and if u get 3 then the 4th is free. No credit cards, no payment untill you get them, so no worries! Send your shipping information and how many to <a href="mailto:Jlfish18@aol.com">Jlfish18@aol.com</a>. Just send cash or check made out to Jason L. Fish after you recieve them and ENJOY!</p>
<p>The bracelets say "ATHEIST &amp; PROUD…</p>
<p>Well i had a good turn out last year and had many pending requests to bring them back this year. And i did just that! they are back and at a new price of 2$ each and if u get 3 then the 4th is free. No credit cards, no payment untill you get them, so no worries! Send your shipping information and how many to <a href="mailto:Jlfish18@aol.com">Jlfish18@aol.com</a>. Just send cash or check made out to Jason L. Fish after you recieve them and ENJOY!</p>
<p>The bracelets say "ATHEIST &amp; PROUD OF IT"</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://api.ning.com:80/files/oR*3jF8D0NU3vud2r1idbxGftHTZjz7mZpWHAC0iLz1XbVicXX8tavkegk0GpxbjN17ay3mtJuiG77pY2ImpTvd1d7ZhsHWH/atheistpicbracelet.jpg"><img width="287" src="http://api.ning.com:80/files/oR*3jF8D0NU3vud2r1idbxGftHTZjz7mZpWHAC0iLz1XbVicXX8tavkegk0GpxbjN17ay3mtJuiG77pY2ImpTvd1d7ZhsHWH/atheistpicbracelet.jpg" class="align-center"/></a></p> Group headliner: ADULTS WITH IMAGINARY FRIENDS ARE STUPIDtag:atheistnexus.org,2011-03-03:2182797:Topic:11439632011-03-03T20:33:58.692ZJack Matirkohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JackMatirko
<p>I totally agree with the group's headliner statement. But it raises an interesting point for converts to atheism. As my months of membership at A|N go by I see so many ex-religious people leaving the holy book behind, and converting to the book of Dawkins, or the book of Hitchens. I've heard converts say:</p>
<p>"Religious people aren't stupid, I used to be one, and I'm intelligent, and was before"</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It reminds me somewhat of divorce statistics. A woman marries a divorcee,…</p>
<p>I totally agree with the group's headliner statement. But it raises an interesting point for converts to atheism. As my months of membership at A|N go by I see so many ex-religious people leaving the holy book behind, and converting to the book of Dawkins, or the book of Hitchens. I've heard converts say:</p>
<p>"Religious people aren't stupid, I used to be one, and I'm intelligent, and was before"</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It reminds me somewhat of divorce statistics. A woman marries a divorcee, expecting she'll get a different treatment from the previous wife, she's better matched than the previous wife, the man has 'changed', etc. However facts tell a different story:</p>
<p><b>The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage</b><br/> 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>People convert to atheism and 'suddenly' become 'less' stupid and lecture religious people on how stupid <span style="text-decoration: underline;">they</span> are, when the converts themselves were religious mere months or years ago.</p>
<p>People fall in love, make grand declarations and grand promises, and then backtrack.</p>
<p>Alcoholics quit the booze, make grand declarations and grand promises, and fall off the wagon.</p>
<p>I am becoming more and more suspicious of converts. My mom changes her vote at nearly every election. She has no 'core' value, she flops according to fashion, according to other's promises. Religious people flop to atheism, because bashing god is in style.</p>
<p>In my eyes, flop once... flop twice!</p>
<p>I've never had a second of religion/god in my life, never fallen for supernatural beliefs of any kind. I suspect we'll be seeing more "returns to god" in the future than we've ever seen in the past.</p> ATHEIST & PROUD OF IT braceletstag:atheistnexus.org,2011-01-07:2182797:Topic:10735732011-01-07T21:09:14.033ZJack Matirkohttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/JackMatirko
<a href="http://api.ning.com/files/ZOpiTxBddc2-HqM7U8o6vam9vkDp7JdLHPM8cRAC*sYpNSLNGfrcid*G*n5ENkNh6Z5jdTg1eUv54WHAQ7HqHU3EYTr4YBDnAuPmxfrilLU_/22200033.jpg" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://api.ning.com/files/ZOpiTxBddc2-HqM7U8o6vam9vkDp7JdLHPM8cRAC*sYpNSLNGfrcid*G*n5ENkNh6Z5jdTg1eUv54WHAQ7HqHU3EYTr4YBDnAuPmxfrilLU_/22200033.jpg" width="324"></img></a> <br></br>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">I am selling Red debossed, silicon bracelets that’s say "ATHEIST &amp; PROUD OF IT"</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">A few new…</span></p>
<a target="_self" href="http://api.ning.com/files/ZOpiTxBddc2-HqM7U8o6vam9vkDp7JdLHPM8cRAC*sYpNSLNGfrcid*G*n5ENkNh6Z5jdTg1eUv54WHAQ7HqHU3EYTr4YBDnAuPmxfrilLU_/22200033.jpg"><img width="324" src="http://api.ning.com/files/ZOpiTxBddc2-HqM7U8o6vam9vkDp7JdLHPM8cRAC*sYpNSLNGfrcid*G*n5ENkNh6Z5jdTg1eUv54WHAQ7HqHU3EYTr4YBDnAuPmxfrilLU_/22200033.jpg" class="align-full"/></a><br/>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">I am selling Red debossed, silicon bracelets that’s say "ATHEIST &amp; PROUD OF IT"</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">A few new things have come from reviewing the first orders already in.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">These are the new aspects</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">What</span></u></strong><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">: Red, engraved, silicon bracelet announcing your belief of atheist and that your PROUD!!</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">WHEN</span></u></strong><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">: I recieved the bracelets 13 days sooner than expected!! SO there ready for sale and will be sent 1 to 2 days after i confirm your order personally.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">WHAT DO I NEED</span></u></strong><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">:</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">Your full name</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">Full address</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">Email for easy updates and also (PAYPAL)</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">How many bracelets</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">COST</span></u></strong><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">:<strong>NON pay pal</strong></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">1st bracelet- 3$</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">2 bracelets- 5$</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">3rd and 4th are as well 2$ SO for 1=3$, 2=5$, 3=7$, 4=9$</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">I can send 4 MAX! in one letter so your 1st, 5th, 9th... bracelets are going to be 3$</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">You don’t pay until you receive the bracelet(s) and all you do is send your amount back to the billing address, preferably between paper so you cant tell there’s money in it.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">This makes it possible for no risk on your side :) and no credit cards</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">COST</span></u></strong><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">: <strong>using pay pal</strong></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">Same as above BUT a .50cent charge and a 2.9% of your total will be added to cover pay pal transactions</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">Example: 2 bracelets= 5$+.50+.14= $5.64. The 14 cents comes from 2.9% of 5$</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><strong><u><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">WHY</span></u></strong><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">?: because you will notice that if you try to buy just one or two that you will run into 8 dollars just for 1 or 2 around the 12$ range for a second bracelet with shipping included!! :/</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">You can place an order on my page (messages are easy for me to keep track of) or my Facebook page under my name. I’m from Flint MI for searching reasons</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 1pt 4.8pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: black; font-size: 13pt;">Thanks a lot and SPREAD THE WORD!!! Wear them with pride</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></font></p>