Indians must know that part of sikhs, the mahars ( clan of BR ambedkar ) and Scindias sided with the british in 1857, in the sepoy mutiny --or war of independence.

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Well, although this is true, it is both unfair and incomplete without mentioning:

1) 1857 Mutiny was by Poorbia soldiers who had just fought the Khalsa in Anglo Sikh wars which the Sikhs ultimately lost. There was no love lost between the two and large parts of Sikh soldiers were eager for revenge.

2) Mutineers were trying to appoint a Mughal king to the throne in Delhi. For obvious reasons, this was unacceptable for the Sikhs.

sure ask away, i might reply in the chit chat thread if it is off topic

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Sure. Well I read an article on FB regarding the resurgence of Khalistan issue in Canada and US now, and in the comments as expected it was mostly Pakis frothing from their orifices for Khalistan which is not surprising, but I did happen to see some Sikhs too mostly from west countries and in a small margin some Sikhs from India too, wanting a Khalistan. I mean in India everybody has immense respect for Sikhs and love them and would fight for them without a second thought. So why are some of these Sikhs [mostly foreign] so hell bent for a separate country? I mean why can't they have a Khalistan state and still be part of India. Are most of the Sikhs in Canada, US so much against India? 84 was a very sad chapter for India but what is done is done, the person responsible was also assassinated so why still this hate?

Sure. Well I read an article on FB regarding the resurgence of Khalistan issue in Canada and US now, and in the comments as expected it was mostly Pakis frothing from their orifices for Khalistan which is not surprising, but I did happen to see some Sikhs too mostly from west countries and in a small margin some Sikhs from India too, wanting a Khalistan. I mean in India everybody has immense respect for Sikhs and love them and would fight for them without a second thought. So why are some of these Sikhs [mostly foreign] so hell bent for a separate country? I mean why can't they have a Khalistan state and still be part of India. Are most of the Sikhs in Canada, US so much against India? 84 was a very sad chapter for India but what is done is done, the person responsible was also assassinated so why still this hate?

Sorry for off topic.

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I'll reply in the chit chat thread Wanted to keep this to <1947 if possible.

shivaji's son sambhaji was captured by mughals with help from shirke family of marathas . actually sambhaji was at sangameshwar in konkan . he had only few soldiers with him as that place was considered far away from mughal territory and relatively inaccessible . along with him was his trusted friend kavi kalash , who was a brahmin from kanauj ( UP ) . the two were engaged in revelry as they did not feel any danger from mughals .

what they did not know was the fact that the shirke family of marathas had defected to the mughals . actually the passes of the sahyadri range were impassable for the mughals as they were mountainous and densely forested . but the shirke family guided a force of mughal soldiers led by muqarrab khan through all the dense forests and mountains to the place where sambhaji was staying . sambhaji was captured and carried through the dense forests and mountains with the help of shirkes into mughal territory before the marathas could rally and save their king . sambhaji and kavi kalash were brought before aurangzeb and killed in most inhuman fashion .

shivaji's son sambhaji was captured by mughals with help from shirke family of marathas . actually sambhaji was at sangameshwar in konkan . he had only few soldiers with him as that place was considered far away from mughal territory and relatively inaccessible . along with him was his trusted friend kavi kalash , who was a brahmin from kanauj ( UP ) . the two were engaged in revelry as they did not feel any danger from mughals .

what they did not know was the fact that the shirke family of marathas had defected to the mughals . actually the passes of the sahyadri range were impassable for the mughals as they were mountainous and densely forested . but the shirke family guided a force of mughal soldiers led by muqarrab khan through all the dense forests and mountains to the place where sambhaji was staying . sambhaji was captured and carried through the dense forests and mountains with the help of shirkes into mughal territory before the marathas could rally and save their king . sambhaji and kavi kalash were brought before aurangzeb and killed in most inhuman fashion .

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I forgot to tag you! I'm glad you found this thread and replied, I've read some of your other posts and you seem to know a lot of history. Thanks for replying and please post more.

shivaji's son sambhaji was captured by mughals with help from shirke family of marathas . actually sambhaji was at sangameshwar in konkan . he had only few soldiers with him as that place was considered far away from mughal territory and relatively inaccessible . along with him was his trusted friend kavi kalash , who was a brahmin from kanauj ( UP ) . the two were engaged in revelry as they did not feel any danger from mughals .

what they did not know was the fact that the shirke family of marathas had defected to the mughals . actually the passes of the sahyadri range were impassable for the mughals as they were mountainous and densely forested . but the shirke family guided a force of mughal soldiers led by muqarrab khan through all the dense forests and mountains to the place where sambhaji was staying . sambhaji was captured and carried through the dense forests and mountains with the help of shirkes into mughal territory before the marathas could rally and save their king . sambhaji and kavi kalash were brought before aurangzeb and killed in most inhuman fashion .

sikhs claim that dogra ruler gulab singh betrayed them in first anglo sikh war .

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After the demise of Maharajah Ranjit Singh, Gulab Singh in 1845 AD betrayed the Sikh kingdom by partnering with British, blocking access of Sikh army to military supplies required in the battle to stop the British advance into Punjab. This was an act done in return for the right to purchase an independent rule of Kashmir, for a sum of Rs. 75L. Gulab Singh paid the amount to British from the treasury of the Sikh kingdom at Lahore.

instead of destroying maratha empire they enlarged it and it reached upto attock in punjab under peshwa nanasaheb .

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I agree, the maratha empire was at its peak (in terms of land under control) under peshwas in 1761 , but the panipat happened.
Panipat, infighting and British were the three main reasons for the maratha empire's Downfall.

sikhs claim that dogra ruler gulab singh betrayed them in first anglo sikh war .

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I have read a lot on the glorious dogra rule in Kashmir in this forum (and the glorious dogra wars that defeated the mighty Chinese in China's own backyard). To me it seems that the glorious dogra rule was a puppet state under the able divide and rule policy of the british.

And about the glorious sikh rule, after Ranjit Singh's time, the sikh soldiers learnt to be part of the machinery of british empire and did really well in british indian army. Nothing really wrong with that.

according to 'history of gujarat' written by edalji dosabhai , king bhimdev solanki of gujarat was bitter enemy of prithviraj chauhan . he fought many battles with prithviraj even as the forces of muhammad ghauri were knocking on the gates of india . he did so against the express advice of his courtiers who advised him to forget differences with prithviraj in view of the danger from the mlenchhas ( muslims ) and unite with prithvi .

ultimately chauhan defeated bhimdev in a great battle , but a lot of soldiers were lost in the battle . and in the crucial battle of tarain , bhimdev refused to come to prithviraj's aid---which resulted in weakening of the hindu front . after defeating prithviraj the muslims attacked gujarat too later and thus both the chauhan kingdom and gujarat were destroyed .

of course , the betrayal by jaichand is too well known to be recounted here .

We all know about this. That Mir Jafar betrayed Siraj-Ud-Daula in battle of plassey. Mir Jafar's co-conspirators were Jagat Seth (the jain marwari seth ji) and Amir Chand (not sure which language he spoke in his time though!)

I of course don't think these betrayal/ conspiracy was anti-indian in nature. Siraj-Ud-Daula was not exactly Indian. He was the descendant of invaders anyway. Robert Clive was also an invader. So in this case one invader was betraying another invader with the help of ever helping baniyas. Lot of good came out of this betrayal. The British Raj kicked off in India.

The "martial races" became modern day equivalent of automated fighter robots in British Indian Army and non-martial races (Bengalis!!) became modern equivalent of automated clerical tools (or AI!!) in Colonial British computing powers.

how marwari banker jagat seth helped mir jafar betray bengal to the british under clive . to be fair one has to admit that jagat seth had been insulted by the nawab of bengal ( siraj ud daulah ) earlier when siraj had tried to wring out a large sum of money from him and seth refused . siraj had reacted by slapping and jailing jagat seth . jagat was smarting due to the insult .

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Clive, with an army of 900 Europeans and 1,500 sepoys, and escorted by a fleet of five warships under the command of Admiral Watson, had no difficulty in driving Siraj out of Calcutta. He and Watson then turned on the French, removing them from Bengal by capturing their bases at Chandarnagar and on the Hooghly. When Siraj still proved troublesome, Clive formed an alliance with the fabulously rich Hindu banker, Jagat Seth, to pay Siraj's more pliable uncle, Mir Jafar, to betray his nephew and take his place.

On 23 June 1757, Clive led his troops to meet Siraj's army of 50,000 at the village of Plassey, between Calcutta and the nawab's capital of Murshidabad. The battle of Plassey has always been regarded as the decisive moment in establishing British hegemony in Bengal, paving the way for the domination of all India. And so it was, but it was hardly a battle at all, more a confused scuffle. It began with a cannonade from the nawab's artillery. Clive prudently withdrew his men behind a hill, at which point a monsoon downpour drenched the nawab's ammunition while Clive's men kept their powder dry under tarpaulins. When the rain stopped, Clive opened fire again, and after a few skirmishes, Siraj and his army turned and ran. It was not Clive's guns, however, that had truly won the day, but Mir Jafar's treachery and Jagat Seth's money. Mir Jafar, the nawab's chief general, had simply held his own men back, and Jagat Seth had laid out a small fortune to pay Siraj's soldiers not to fight.

a scholarly series of articles on mercantile & intellectual collusion of some Indics & communities with abrahamic invaders in history. penned by the famous trio of Dikgaj-Shanmukh-Saswati Sarkar (and joined by 2 more researchers). collection-worth stuff! the thread has been made sticky, & as @Kunal Biswas wrote, for academical purposes, this series is absolutely apt, and a MUST-post/read for this thread! provides a fuller insight into the issue, rather than just reading about battle-stuff. since the article is lengthy, posting just the link here:

P.S. - BTW in all this, ie, all the posts made and info shared here so far, & esp. with respect to the article(s) i shared now, like how @Screambowl had written recently (about things remaining to be the same then & now & in future too), things/situation(s) look to be more or less the same. @Kunal Biswas also mentions that traitors remain, in every country & society. compare this with contemporary India, and you'll find many matches. just names, figures have changed. professions, MO, etc. remain more or less the same.