Personally, I also think Yuna Kim has to be considered probably the third greatest jumper of all time. Although she never got the triple Axel and doesn't perform the triple loop, the technical perfection and consistency of her triple Lutz/triple toe combination, and her other triples, puts her up there. Many ladies have done the 3Lutz/3toe combo, but none so often or so well as Yuna.

I would not call Kim a better jumper than Irina. Irina had the full set of jumps and had more combo possiblities. I'm not a huge fan of Irina as a skater but as a jumper I think she was better than Kim. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y118zXrE9IQ There are no 3/3s here although Irina's done them, but these jumps are BIG huge and with a full compliment.. Now most consistent 3/3 in the world I'll give to Kim... And I prefer Kim overall as a skater. But in terms of jumps (and spins) I give it to Irina.

Midori Ito was amazing, a force of nature, and undoubtedly the best ladies jumper of all time. According to Wikipedia, she achieved the following:
--First lady to land triple Axel
--First to land 7 triples in long program
--First to land triple/triple combination

As to Tonya, despite her career ending in such disgrace, she was also a very great jumper. Her triple Axel, when she had it, was the only one in the same class as Midori's.

Some years back, Kristi Yamaguchi commented on Midori and Tonya as jumpers. Kristi said Midori was incredible, but that Tonya's jumps were perhaps even better, just in terms of natural height and flow. Kristi obviously would have been observing their jumps as closely as anyone in those years.

Midori wins over Tonya hands down, though, as she was much more consistent over a longer time frame than Tonya. And Midori never lost her triple Axel, whereas Tonya did.

Personally, I also think Yuna Kim has to be considered probably the third greatest jumper of all time. Although she never got the triple Axel and doesn't perform the triple loop, the technical perfection and consistency of her triple Lutz/triple toe combination, and her other triples, puts her up there. Many ladies have done the 3Lutz/3toe combo, but none so often or so well as Yuna.

I think it's premature to compare Yuna Kim and Gracie Gold. One day, Gracie may be every bit as good as Yuna. There seems no limit to her potential. But she doesn't have the track record of Yuna yet, and that's important. It's one thing to land a perfect triple Lutz/triple toe at Nationals when you are in ninth place; quite another thing entirely to land it at the Olympics when you are in first place and carrying the hopes of a nation.

Tonya was way too irregular and inconsistent in her career to deserve to be 2nd greatest jumper ever. Yes when she was "on" she is probably even 1st ahead of Ito, but someone who went through so many 2 or 3 triple long programs even in her prime years the 2nd best jumper ever? Sorry just no way. I would rate Kim 2nd, and even though I dislike her immensely I believe Ando deserves 3rd for being incredibly consistent and very high quality and difficult in jumps through her whole career. Slutskaya I would definitely have 4th all time. After that it gets murky, Harding, Asada, Yamaguchi (for incredible consistency for so many years), Kwan (same as Yamaguchi but less likely than Kristi to be in the top 10 as she didnt do a tripe lutz-triple toe like Kristi did), Zayak (ahead of her time), Biellmann (ahead of her time and incredible longevity as a jumper and skater), are some I would consider for the remaining top 10 jumpers of all time.

I"m not sure I'd call Kim a better jumper than Irina. Irina had the full set of jumps and had more combo possiblities. I'm not a huge fan of Irina as a skater but as a jumper I think she was better than Kim.

Irina's triple-triples were more talk then action most of the time. She had only about the same # of clean triple-triples as Michelle Kwan of all people in competition (even though all of MK's were the 3 toe-3 toe). She was averaging only about 1 per year in her prime (especialy if we discount ones that werent clean as she had some attempts that wouldnt even be ratified today). Kim was so much more regular actually doing, rather than practicing and hyping up, actual beautiful 3-3s in actual competition, by a huge margin. In a 4 year span she probably did about 5 times as many clean triple-triples as Irina in any given 4 year span, maybe even more than that. If Irina actually produced the 3-3s she practiced and hyped up doing, she would have alot more than the 2 World and 0 Olympic titles she has, especialy as none of Kwan, Hughes, Cohen, or Arakawa has ever beaten her in a competition she skated cleanly with atleast one 3-3 combo ever. Irina had big jumps but poor flow out, and sloppy positions in the air often. Kim's jumps were remarkable in everyway in quality. I am actually a big Irina fan, an even bigger one than Kim, but no way would I pick Irina as the better jumper. Both would definitely be top 5 all time though, maybe even 2nd and 3rd behind Ito (considering as I said Harding is way too irregular to be right at the top for me anyway).

1. Ito
2. Kim
3. Ando
4. Slutskaya
5. Harding (just based on sheer quality where is probably #1, in consistency she is out of the top 100)
6. Biellmann (so consistent for so many years, and ahead of her time in difficulty)
7. Zayak (really raised the bar for triples in ladies skating)
8. Asada- giving her note for all the successful 3 axels, but her jumps in quality and consistency are nowhere near Kim and Ando.
9. Yamaguchi- due to consistency and longevity as a jumper, doing full set of triples for years even as a pro.
10. Dunno, Rochette or Kostner maybe just since their jumps are huge and tremendous when done, although neither are consistent in general, nor in producing 3-3s.

How could we have forgotten Zayak until this page? Thanks for bringing her up and including her. I like your list for the balance of divert reasons for your choices. I like the idea of both Yamaguchi and Biellmann being on there for longevity and consistency. Longevity argues a meticulous training regimen and an effort to maintain a solid technique. Harding is one of those frustrating people (kind of like Christopher Bowman and Nicole Bobek) who had absolutely awesome natural gifts and who mostly threw them away. Someone like Harding is like the anti-Yamaguchi, because she has such talent but is temperamentally unable to commit to the grind that will do justice to her talent. As people have said, (a) genius is two percent inspiration and 98 percent perspiration, and (b) ninety percent of life is just showing up.

Then there are the skaters who were able to put in the sheer hard work needed to hone their stunning natural gifts as jumpers: Ito (a blessing to skating straight from Heaven) and Kim. If we never again in the history of skating see jumping as gorgeous as that done by these two, they will be enough to justify the sport of skating.

I wonder, Pangtongfan, whether you would consider putting Arakawa in your tenth position, or perhaps as an eleventh (a nice prime number, eleven). I always loved her skating, but my eyes were opened to her achievements in jumping by Bartek's tape of her triple-triples. I can't find his video, but here is someone else's video. If you're reading this, Bartek, I hope you link to your video:

3. Elaine only had the toe loop, salchow, loop, and occasionally a pretty good toe walley, but every jump she did in that era had transitions in and/or out of them.

4. Like quite a few of the girls of her day, she could tack a triple toe on the end of any double jump.

5. She did all of that missing about 1/3 of her foot.

6. She returned to competition 10 years after she left it with the same jumps she had 10 years previously.

7. She has the rare distinction (and not very comfortable distinction) of having a rule made to limit her racking up points by being better at jumps than her competitors; in other words, she changed the sport permanently. The rule is still there, and it is still named The Zayak Rule.

Top 10 jumpers of all time would be
1. Midori
Wide gap
2. Miki Ando. For having a full set of triples as late as 2010. All jumps are of the best qualities, especially the lutz, loop, salchow, and even toe. For landing a great number of 3x3 in her long careers. She probably landed the most # of 3x3 in the sport.
3. Yuna Kim. For having awesome jumps. Would place above Ando if she has the loop. I personally prefer Miki's lutz to Yuna's.
4. Carolina Kostner. For having a full set of triples, and all of her triples are of highest qualities. Would place her above Miki had she been more consistent. And Caro landed just as many 3x3 as any of the top girls in her long career. Look it up, how many 3toe 3toe she's landed? How many 3flip-3toe she's landed. She probably landed as many 3x3 as Miki's or Mao's or Irina's or even Kim's. Her lutz and flip (despite the long set up) are so pretty. The air position is to die for.
5. Shizuka. Her jumps (except the flip) are of highest qualities. Her lutzes are gorgeous. I think just looking at her lutz, it's only second to Miki's. The flow out of it is amazing. Most girls don't have good flow out of their lutz. Her salchow is great. Her loop is good. And she retained her jumps even into her late 20s. That's a sign of doing it right!
6. Mao Asada. A few of her 3As are so gorgeous, they are fully rotated and so perfectly excecuted, i would give her equal GOE compare to Midori's 3As. Her loop is also nice. She should just take a hit with the flutz, and not bother fixing it for 2 seasons.
7. Irina. For having huge jumps. But she's like all of the Russians, no flow out of the jumps at all. I love the explosiveness of her jumps, it looks like Midori's minus the flow out. And for attempting all of the triples.
8. Gracie. If she lives up to her jumping potential. She would likely overtake Irina in the near future for me. The problem is her landings are too stiff for me. Not a lot of flow, not a lot of gracefulness and effortlessness that someone like Shizuka or Carolina has in their exits.
9. Joannie. Her jumps are nice, but same problem with Gracie, very stiff in the landing.
10. Kristi/Michelle. They are consistent, but their jumps are too small for me.

Top 10 jumpers of all time would be
1. Midori
Wide gap
2. Miki Ando. For having a full set of triples as late as 2010. All jumps are of the best qualities, especially the lutz, loop, salchow, and even toe. For landing a great number of 3x3 in her long careers. She probably landed the most # of 3x3 in the sport.
3. Yuna Kim. For having awesome jumps. Would place above Ando if she has the loop. I personally prefer Miki's lutz to Yuna's.
4. Carolina Kostner. For having a full set of triples, and all of her triples are of highest qualities. Would place her above Miki had she been more consistent. And Caro landed just as many 3x3 as any of the top girls in her long career. Look it up, how many 3toe 3toe she's landed? How many 3flip-3toe she's landed. She probably landed as many 3x3 as Miki's or Mao's or Irina's or even Kim's. Her lutz and flip (despite the long set up) are so pretty. The air position is to die for.
5. Shizuka. Her jumps (except the flip) are of highest qualities. Her lutzes are gorgeous. I think just looking at her lutz, it's only second to Miki's. The flow out of it is amazing. Most girls don't have good flow out of their lutz. Her salchow is great. Her loop is good. And she retained her jumps even into her late 20s. That's a sign of doing it right!
6. Mao Asada. A few of her 3As are so gorgeous, they are fully rotated and so perfectly excecuted, i would give her equal GOE compare to Midori's 3As. Her loop is also nice. She should just take a hit with the flutz, and not bother fixing it for 2 seasons.
7. Irina. For having huge jumps. But she's like all of the Russians, no flow out of the jumps at all. I love the explosiveness of her jumps, it looks like Midori's minus the flow out. And for attempting all of the triples.
8. Gracie. If she lives up to her jumping potential. She would likely overtake Irina in the near future for me. The problem is her landings are too stiff for me. Not a lot of flow, not a lot of gracefulness and effortlessness that someone like Shizuka or Carolina has in their exits.
9. Joannie. Her jumps are nice, but same problem with Gracie, very stiff in the landing.
10. Kristi/Michelle. They are consistent, but their jumps are too small for me.

That would be interesting to count up. Yuna has landed 44 ratified triple-triples in her entire career. How many for Ando?

The best jumpers in history:
1) Midori Ito: no doubts, she's still unmatched!
2) Miki Ando, I think: 4S, 3Lz+3Lo, 3F+3Lo, 3T+3T, she had all the most difficult jumps and combos and the consistency of her 3Lz in the late years was amazing3) Mao Asada: everything she has accomplished puts Mao here, I think: her 3As' consistency has been beautiful, but she has a lot of problems with "e" and UR jumps
4) Tonya Harding: unfortunately, she didn't have consistency, but when she landed her jumps they were superbe!

What do you think?

mao has triple axel, but she is not consistenly (during 10~13, She only succeeded once in a 4cc)
can you say that 3a is her specialty?

And after the Olympics, she should to modify all the jumps that the foundation is terrible
she is Flutzer and her constantly jump is only 3f and 3lo

Top 10 jumpers of all time would be
1. Midori
Wide gap
2. Miki Ando. For having a full set of triples as late as 2010. All jumps are of the best qualities, especially the lutz, loop, salchow, and even toe. For landing a great number of 3x3 in her long careers. She probably landed the most # of 3x3 in the sport.
3. Yuna Kim. For having awesome jumps. Would place above Ando if she has the loop. I personally prefer Miki's lutz to Yuna's.

Writing in 1938, T.D. Richardson (author of Modern Figure Skating and Ice Rink Skating) said "Her Free Skating Programme is by far the most difficult attempted by anyone, man or woman, in the Skating World, but she brings off these staggeringly difficult combinations of jumps and spins with such ease and sureness and at such speed that even experts are sometimes deceived as to the real worth of her programme."

How could we have forgotten Zayak until this page? Thanks for bringing her up and including her. I like your list for the balance of divert reasons for your choices. I like the idea of both Yamaguchi and Biellmann being on there for longevity and consistency. Longevity argues a meticulous training regimen and an effort to maintain a solid technique. Harding is one of those frustrating people (kind of like Christopher Bowman and Nicole Bobek) who had absolutely awesome natural gifts and who mostly threw them away. Someone like Harding is like the anti-Yamaguchi, because she has such talent but is temperamentally unable to commit to the grind that will do justice to her talent. As people have said, (a) genius is two percent inspiration and 98 percent perspiration, and (b) ninety percent of life is just showing up.

Then there are the skaters who were able to put in the sheer hard work needed to hone their stunning natural gifts as jumpers: Ito (a blessing to skating straight from Heaven) and Kim. If we never again in the history of skating see jumping as gorgeous as that done by these two, they will be enough to justify the sport of skating.

I wonder, Pangtongfan, whether you would consider putting Arakawa in your tenth position, or perhaps as an eleventh (a nice prime number, eleven). I always loved her skating, but my eyes were opened to her achievements in jumping by Bartek's tape of her triple-triples. I can't find his video, but here is someone else's video. If you're reading this, Bartek, I hope you link to your video:

Actually Arakawa would be a good top 10 option. Probably better than the ones I currently contemplated for 10th anyway. She wasnt totally consistent which would limit me from putting her higher.

I am glad to see several other posters spreading the Zayak love. It is a shame she wasnt that appreciated after her World title win, largely due to people like Peggy Fleming not liking how Zayak was supposably making the ladies event too athletic. People just werent ready to appreciate and accept it yet, which was a real shame, it wasnt until years after she retired that she started getting her due, including from Peggy herself at he 94 Nationals in her comeback. Elaine was the biggest reason women started to do more and more triples, and also different type of triples since she showed the standard triples of then (toe and sal, sometimes loop) could be done so often by a very athletic skater like Elaine, that the women needed to start pushing for more difficult triples to stand out. Also for all the flak she gets for so many triple toes, as others have pointed out she did them in so many different combinations and from different entrances, and she had fully mastered 3 different triples, which for the time was very rare. At the 84 Olympics I believe she was the only lady that night to land 4 clean triples in her LP, and 3 different types of clean triples (the wonderful Tiffany Chin, IMO the top free skater of the 84 Games, made a great attempt at a triple flip, which would have made her the other), and it wouldnt have been any harm that she probably would have also done 5 or 6 triples toes, in addition to her strong triple sal and triple loop jumps, had it been allowed.