If eternal damnation is the only crutch to err for semi-belief in a deity (which you will be eternally damned anyway) then it is only wasted energy. The whole existence of a "soul" has to be explored and when one dies how this "invisible you" transfers to the afterlife. Does it fly? Do you awake in a flower bed? Is there really a dude with a list? Are you really in fear or a red goat man with a farm tool?

From the early days of man Sun worship and astrology guided all beliefs of mans understanding of the world and is natural to "humanize a God/Sun/Nature. How would one not understand why an invention of God and the eventual use to control masses of expanding kingdoms is just being Matt Lower "glib"

I would rather believe there is a God and live my life as such....and be wrong about it.

Rather than not believe there is a Hod and live my life as such....and be wrong.

First case....maybe I missed out on some pleasure and fun while floating around in this rock.

Second case....eternal damnation.

Just a thought.

Bit late to the party but I've always really, really disliked the whole "what if you're wrong" argument.

(Just for clarification, I'm an atheist) - I've always felt that if God were hypothetically real that one would be judged based on the merit and content of their character, not on what they believed in while they were alive. If one's belief system is the ultimate decider in damnation, and not their character, then I'd prefer to be damned. Any "God" that condemns someone to a life of torture over such a trivial thing is not a "God". The idea of damnation over who one believes in just seems utterly silly to me. If a President were to execute any who supported a different politician than him, would that be right? No, so why does God get a pass? It just seems ridiculous.

Something as personal as religious conviction, be you of a faith or of none at all, isn't as easy as "well, what if you're wrong..." What if you're wrong, and the ancient Greeks were right? The whole notion of being "wrong" is applicable to any religion/non religion. The only thing that separates me, an atheist, from you, a theist who I assume to be monotheistic (correct me if I'm wrong) is that I personally deny the existence of all Gods, whilst you deny the existence of all except one; the one of your particular belief system.

Religion always seemed to me to be the result of humans wanting to attribute anything they can't explain to the work of divinity.

from the sounds of the thread. i'm not the one trying to convince anyone. i think some of you are trying to convince yourselves.

you can hate the what if you're wrong argument all you want, at some point, no matter your belief systems, socio-economic background, skin color, favorite James Bond or whatever, you WILL die. that might be the only thing that 100% of humanity agrees with.
after that. well.

the concept of god and soul are for me less a way to explain things or control people (though they have been used for both those purposes,) than a rejection of the impermanence of life... a consequence of the desire to believe that we are important and that no matter how insignificant and powerless we may feel in our lives, we have significance. I don't really see any evidence of permanence, significance or order in our universe and I don't really feel drawn to a belief in permanence... as such... meh.

the concept of god and soul are for me less a way to explain things or control people (though they have been used for both those purposes,) than a rejection of the impermanence of life... a consequence of the desire to believe that we are important and that no matter how insignificant and powerless we may feel in our lives, we have significance. I don't really see any evidence of permanence, significance or order in our universe and I don't really feel drawn to a belief in permanence... as such... meh.

I guess I can agree with this for the most part, but I just find there are too many things that I, we, whatever, don't really understand at the present time about life itself, physics, the human brain, space, time, individual consciousness and perspective, etc. to come to a firm conclusion that our existence has absolutely no signifigance... Basically, we know a lot, but we don't really know anything. It is kind of a paradox. We know enough to hold the power to create more of ourselves and the power to destroy all of ourselves. But we don't really know what causes our Darwinian instincts other than the preservation of our species. If there was no point to our existence, why do living things have an apparent innate characteristic that drives them to survive and perservere? Is it as simple as knowing that death is finality?

I guess I can agree with this for the most part, but I just find there are too many things that I, we, whatever, don't really understand at the present time about life itself, physics, the human brain, space, time, individual consciousness and perspective, etc. to come to a firm conclusion that our existence has absolutely no signifigance... Basically, we know a lot, but we don't really know anything. It is kind of a paradox. We know enough to hold the power to create more of ourselves and the power to destroy all of ourselves. But we don't really know what causes our Darwinian instincts other than the preservation of our species. If there was no point to our existence, why do living things have an apparent innate characteristic that drives them to survive and perservere? Is it as simple as knowing that death is finality?

I don't know.

A good set of explorative questions.

If I had no belief about the end of my days, why would I not totally take the easy and most decadant path for everything and damn all consequences. So I live only 45 years as opposed to 60? Who cares, I totally did what I wanted with whom I wanted and made about me totally. What would be wrong with that?A few Huddlers calling me a douche. What do I care. I am out of here soon.

I guess I can agree with this for the most part, but I just find there are too many things that I, we, whatever, don't really understand at the present time about life itself, physics, the human brain, space, time, individual consciousness and perspective, etc. to come to a firm conclusion that our existence has absolutely no signifigance... Basically, we know a lot, but we don't really know anything. It is kind of a paradox. We know enough to hold the power to create more of ourselves and the power to destroy all of ourselves. But we don't really know what causes our Darwinian instincts other than the preservation of our species. If there was no point to our existence, why do living things have an apparent innate characteristic that drives them to survive and perservere? Is it as simple as knowing that death is finality?

I don't know.

i don't know either... and I certainly understand pretty much nothing... that said, life justifies itself... we want to live because we are alive... fear (because that's pretty much what you're talking about) is an extremely useful survival tool, as such its propagation in sentient species has been incredibly efficient... species who show no fear don't survive very long unless they're incredibly prolific. What it comes down to me is that generally speaking, humans (if we can even be called that given that 90% of the cells in our bodies are foreign) have been alive for too little time on too small a scale to be of any importance universally. Even IF god exists we are insignificant to it...

Regarding what you're saying, it's sort of a chicken and the egg argument... one man says "we are special because of how we think..." another man says "we only imagine ourselves to be special by virtue of our thought processes." I guess it depends which side you fall on.

Again, I don't know... I simply don't see moral structure in the universe... and to me, that's sort of the tipping point for the traditional concepts of religion and god... morality. If it's our invention... well... i just don't know.

If I had no belief about the end of my days, why would I not totally take the easy and most decadant path for everything and damn all consequences. So I live only 45 years as opposed to 60? Who cares, I totally did what I wanted with whom I wanted and made about me totally. What would be wrong with that?A few Huddlers calling me a douche. What do I care. I am out of here soon.

why don't you do that now? is it honestly your fear of judgement that keeps you in line?

being an evil bastard has never crossed my mind... and contrarily, it hasn't kept many of the faithful from being such when they wanted to.

We are floating around on a fuging rock in space. We are a miracle that we have come this far, that we can type on these little machines that somehow send a signal to something that we put up in space. It is incredible. After many years of soul searching I have come to the conclusion that we do not know a damn thing. And we probably never will. The most used case for atheism is the Big Bang Theory. So where did that energy come from? Is it God?

We don't know poo from Shinola, so I'm not gonna let some one else dictate or scare me into living a certain way. And if there is a God and he is like that. Then fug him. I'm not hurting anybody, I'm happy, I try and make other people happy, I try to respect everyone and everything.

But one thing i'm certain of; if there is a God, it's the Sun. Cause we are fuged without it.

We are floating around on a fuging rock in space. We are a miracle that we have come this far, that we can type on these little machines that somehow send a signal to something that we put up in space. It is incredible. After many years of soul searching I have come to the conclusion that we do not know a damn thing. And we probably never will. The most used case for atheism is the Big Bang Theory. So where did that energy come from? Is it God?

We don't know poo from Shinola, so I'm not gonna let some one else dictate or scare me into living a certain way. And if there is a God and he is like that. Then fug him. I'm not hurting anybody, I'm happy, I try and make other people happy, I try to respect everyone and everything.

But one thing i'm certain of; if there is a God, it's the Sun. Cause we are fuged without it.