people are born as a 'clean slate', but they are also of a certain temperament...some can let things roll off their back and some feel things deeply,I believe that it is more complex than we know, the reason that some people seem to go towards the 'bad'.

I really don't want to believe it is all so cut and dried. I find it really hard to judge someone else on their path.(I work in Corrections, so this is something I have spent a lot of time pondering.)

okay,this is what I think (and I am NO expert)people are born as a 'clean slate', but they are also of a certain temperament...some can let things roll off their back and some feel things deeply,I believe that it is more complex than we know, the reason that some people seem to go towards the 'bad'.I really don't want to believe it is all so cut and dried. I find it really hard to judge someone else on their path.(I work in Corrections, so this is something I have spent a lot of time pondering.)

I have 4 children and was present when 3 of them were born. From the first moment after birth they all required the same thing. To be held and coddled. As they grew they needed love. My oldest daughter actually pooped in my hand, and she is the good one! All of my children have certain differences and attitudes, but I don't believe a child can be born bad. I believe it has more to do with their up bringing.

<quoted text>Well according to Christians we are born bad and therefore require a second birth.I was born unfortunate to be dealt a bad set of cards. My mother didn't love her babies and the abuse I was raised with has had a bad effect on my life. We are supposed to be able to overcome, blablabla.Regardless, I have always tried to be good. I've given when I was in need, I tried to understand the faith it took to do it God's way and NO, I don't believe in Karma.I do believe good people can turn bad or go completely mad believing they deserved better; even better than some of the so-called Christians.

Yea well the christians have it all wrong, as do all the other religions combined. I don't believe in karma either

<quoted text>Most of the time that is true but there is evidence to suggest that even with a loving home some people are just bad.

as well as evidence of children from a bad home growing up to be good. My point is I don't believe you can take a new born baby and scientifically tell whether it will be a good person or bad person when the child grows up.

<quoted text>as well as evidence of children from a bad home growing up to be good.My point is I don't believe you can take a new born baby and scientifically tell whether it will be a good person or bad person when the child grows up.

Dont get me or Wolf wrong, thats true. We just cant tell till its too late.

<quoted text>as well as evidence of children from a bad home growing up to be good.My point is I don't believe you can take a new born baby and scientifically tell whether it will be a good person or bad person when the child grows up.

I agree. with you. 100 percent!! Nurturing has more to do with this than anything else...I know some children grow up to be monsters regardless, but that statistic is very low. And things parents do when their children go awry will still play into those choices. bailing your kids out for example.. you may be a wonderful parent with amazing morals and values, but if you consistently "love" your child and bail him out of consequence. he learns no lessons... the mamma bird kicks her babies out of a nest...else they die in the nest... that is nurturing as well..

To be 'good' these people require extrinsic motivation to do so. They have no inner moral compass. Back in the old days, early 1900's, little children were taught to show respect for elders and authority figures. Religion played a bigger role in behavior. Family was more important, children wanted to please their parents, grandparents and family. Children could be spanked and punished for being 'bad'. There were a LOT more extrinsic motivators to be good.Liberal attitudes have made it a sociopath's playground in the US.They are in positions of power and looked up too in every area. Politicians, bankers, businessmen, teachers, police, lawyers, sports figures (Lance), and even military leaders are in the headlines TODAY. If the 24 out of 25 would go back to conservative ways, the 1 in 25 would have to go back in hiding.So, are some born bad, well, without strict guidance, nurturing, rules and enforcement, it's easy for them to go there.OK iconer? Let's see um. lol

<quoted text>as well as evidence of children from a bad home growing up to be good.My point is I don't believe you can take a new born baby and scientifically tell whether it will be a good person or bad person when the child grows up.

I agree mostly but sometimes there are warning signs when the child is young before they become monsters. If anyone has a child or knows of a child that has deliberately hurt an animal for example then I think that should signal alarm bells for whoever is in charge of said child. Anti social behaviour,being a loner, not wanting to interact with the community and like I said harming animals and constantly causing trouble are all signs. We owe it to those children to give them a chance to get better. I believe they are sick and left unchecked they just turn "bad"

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