Originally by:Damion ZyneRegardless of the alliance colors I fly under now, I salute the free-captains of The Star Fraction. I just wish you can return to a state where your words are matched by your actions in space again.

Originally by:Damion ZyneRegardless of the alliance colors I fly under now, I salute the free-captains of The Star Fraction. I just wish you can return to a state where your words are matched by your actions in space again.

What have we said that we have not backed up in space?

The victory conditions you place upon your campaigns and battles are notoriously flexible for starters. What begins as an attempt to grind a foe to dust becomes an interdiction of their shipping lanes or some such. Like a line in the sand that continuously moves to and fro to fit the current situation.

If you want specifics, I am afraid I have better things to do than write a comprehensive report! Reading the weekly campaign reports of the past might yield some insight in that general perception.

On a completely different note, there are some within SF that I remember without dislike and indeed some fondness and respect.

Originally by:NemesorThe victory conditions you place upon your campaigns and battles are notoriously flexible for starters. What begins as an attempt to grind a foe to dust becomes an interdiction of their shipping lanes or some such. Like a line in the sand that continuously moves to and fro to fit the current situation.

It is easy to make airy accusations (just like the Amarrian Nationalist do) it is far harder to back up those accusations with fact. Especially when I believe I can say with confidence that the Star Fraction is one of the few organizations in New Eden that has ever admitted to a campaign failure. This fact alone gives credibility and authority to our successful results.

Posted - 2011.06.02 12:15:00 -
[125]@Bacchanalian (this will be long and involved)

To season the debate with a little historical fact Bacchanalian IFve taken the liberty of declassifying two of our discussions from the summer preceding the SF/STIM split which are now hosted on SF public. These were formally member level open discussions/votes on campaigns and decisions and give a useful perspective on the tensions and ambitions leading up to the breakup.

Now, firstly IFll address this business of a tpersonality cultv in Star Fraction. You are right that I personally was away planetside quite a lot that summer (mostly visiting my lover ms Revan Neferis truth be told) but I think you are being a trifle disingenuous to lay the blame entirely there { after all, at least 3 current Rote Kapelle directors/leadership figures were Star Fraction directors that summer who IFd trusted to organize, motivate and run things while I was away. Sakura Nihil, Atandros and Tatsue Nuko were all members of the directorate with full access to our resources and quite able to hold meetings, propose votes, and generally drive the alliance in the direction we wanted.

How exactly I can be held responsible for fostering a personality cult when I appointed a group of directors to run the alliance, gave them all the tools they needed to do that and generally supported their ambitions in the eyes in the membership (as long as we have the appropriate public meetings and decisions there) I donFt really know.

Perhaps the argument is that a CEO/Executor of an alliance can never afford to go on a planetside holiday but really I think we both know the issue of the breakup was something different than this.

So moving on.

That summerFs campaign was training and economic-boosting visit to Pureblind which the public record IFve declassified shows was supported by a large majority of the membership. And judging by our numbers and enhanced capital capability by the end of the summer it was successful. (That said I do acknowledge that Aeaus in particular was very unhappy we didn't vote for Geminate)

The proposed return to hit CYI (Acheron Federations) Starbase infrastructure was something I supported and was intending to vote for in the campaign choice discussion we were making at the time of the breakaway. My comments (and yours) are now on record in the declassified thread on the subject.

So I donFt think you can credibly claim to have your thands tiedv really. You had three representatives on the alliance directorate and the support of the alliance executor. The Pure Blind summer was something generally approved by the majority of the alliance and directorate and I supported you on. Trying to paint this as a mythological fracture point now is a bit silly.

Where the break finally occurred was in the desire of proto-stimulus to adopt NBSI engagement ideology and formal involvement in high level corporate theft and sabotage as a stategy for war. These discussions had been rumbling for a while and weFd heard a lot about how Jericho Fraction pilots in particular were tbeing softv on our commitment to NRDS free-space idealism and drawing the line at infiltration for intel / not wishing to get involved in the murkier business of theft and entity destruction through exploits of weak corporate management tools. Combine this with some genuine personality clashes (Aeaus was by that point considered a right prat by most of JF and we did want rid of him)

Anyway:

So your first 12 months on your own saw you corp-thefting Aegis Militia, putting the boot into Acheron Federation and moving to Syndicate. Quite easy to categorize this as coup-de-grace on the low-hanging fruit really - but fair enough, lets call it unfinished business.

Posted - 2011.06.02 12:18:00 -
[126]Our next 12 months had us joining in an epic fight for the liberation of Providence beside our allies in the UshraFkhan that truly showed us daring to battle outnumbered and outgunned against the biggest prize of all (CVA). We then moved on to become the terror of the national militias and obliterate dozens of Statist puppets in an enduring campaign that cumulated in the great battles of Space and Freedom in Kamela before a heroic return to Providence to oust Sev3rance and celebrate the fall of the CVA.

Now, like Tecam I do regret the break that happened. I think it was foolish and wasteful and robbed Star Fraction of the chance to annihilate CVA directly that autumn. I think it robbed Stimulus of the chance to become something more than Syndicate dwelling random psychotics with no political agenda.

I do believe that the mutual perception of loss is what creates such bitterness still between both sides. One has only to read the mournful lonely rambling of Tatsuo Nuko earlier in this thread to see the degree to which she yearns for something more than the company of hollow-eyed killers chanting clichTd paeans to tseeing the world burnv or tbeing the greatest predatorv { its trite such and no fit meal for a revolutionary.

Even your mention of our standings is a bit rum Bacchanalian. We are NRDS, for us neutrality is friendship. For you in adopting NBSI neutrality = target. You were told by all means set us + if you wanted to avoid shooting our vessels, our pilots do not need that safety wheel because we donFt see neutrals as a threat.So to attitudes, allow me to riposte:

Whilst I agree your pilots do not spend your time in stations ttalking up the revolutionv that does not mean you donFt spend the majority of your time there (in stations) talking of other things { in case of your pilots - it is mostly trolling each other about kills achieved and suffered. Rote Kapelle alliance is generally docked in TXW-EI for large periods of the day and only travels in combat patrols of overwhelming number to engage unfortunates. Nothing much to criticise against the general behaviour and customs of nullsec enclosurists/random hostiles; but nothing particularly praiseworthy or notable either.

You laud your distain for public image as a virtue but still you (meaning Rote Kapelle) are amongst the most common posters on Star Fraction threads { it seems that while you donFt care for tyour imagev you certainly care about attempting to rubbish the timagev of others. Even when these attempts stretch credibility way beyond breaking point.

Currently for example: weFve had Rote Kapelle and Veto posters beating their chests about a failed tower assault against SF assets when your combined alliances had a 10-1 numerical advantage. WeFve had Rote Kapelle and Veto posters shouting invective and vitriol like lunatics at the fact that Star Fraction is not prepared to line up and die against massive odds at times of your pleasing.

WeFve had bizarre confused statements sometimes claiming you arenFt supporting moira, sometimes you are, sometimes there is no war, sometimes there is, sometimes itFs a campaign to obliterate us, sometimes itFs not { and always there is the niggling feeling at the back of the consciousness.

If Rote Kapelle and Veto really did believe Star Fraction was utterly useless wouldnFt they actually be prepared to fight with less than 5-1 odds in their favour? WouldnFt they sometimes be prepared to take the tiniest little risk?

SF has been attacking the Moira HQ tower in Pelille with gangs of around 15-20 pilots { knowing that our primary enemy can muster that size of gang themselves if Soter can master his cowardice for a moment. And knowing also that Rote Kapelle and Veto can bring 5 times that number to support Moira in a moment through the Titan bridge. (To say nothing of other regional hostiles that love to drop tower assaulting forces *nods at rooks and kings*)

WeFre assaulting a fixed position in space opposing odds of 5 to 1 against while you fear to assault our towers with less than 10-1 in your favour { does this really mean you consider our pilots 50 times as individually dangerous than yours?

You have to appreciate we take that as a massive compliment to our capability and resolve that you feel obliged to perform the largest CTA in your history to come against our space-infrastructure Bacchanlian. This little skirmish against Moira has become quite a test of wills and endurance and it is good that weFve finally found a way to fight!

On the last of your points, sure you have recruited many pilots that the Star Fraction defeated. But donFt be too sure that the conversion is going entirely one way. As a Free Captain of the Star Fraction you were a courageous and daring pilot Bacchanalian, we fought side by side against the odds and overcame the big-battalions of imperialism to win heroic victories that set the cluster afire with imagination and recognition of our cheeky joie de vivre.

But how long has it been since you triumphed as the underdog? As the long-shot? As the embattled guerrilla fighting tyranny?

I wonder if the many defeated pilots of the Kimotoro Directive and their ilk have brought into your organization more than mere memory of the tWassenar Manoeuvrev and have perchance infected your thinking with the same memetic rot that afflicts most large organizations in New Eden today?

In the last few weeks of our fighting I have never seen a solitary act of courageous daring from a Rote Kapelle pilot in these hostilities and it saddens me in truth. How different from the Kimotoro War where we fought outnumbered more often than not and still triumphed by virtue of our camaraderie and skill and our belief in the cause.

Originally by:Revan Neferis Either way brings back a question to the present times; these current wars you are fighting against one another now, what is that exactly for? To see which organization should carry the title of true holders of the anarchist banner, or something else? I'm interested to read a few different versions regarding this new war.

From our perspective the matter is extremely simple.

1. Star Fraction combat ships were engaged by Moira Corporation vessels and as a result Moira corporation were set -10 KOS.

2. Moira Corporation continued to interfere with Star Fraction patrols and actions in and around the Ostingele/Pelille/Agoze triangle and eventually "ordered" Fraction vessels out of Pelille in an attempt to assert their apparent "ownership" of the system.

3. In response Star Fraction wardecced Moira to oppose their claims and assert our freedom to operate precisely where we pleased.

4. Moira CEO Julianus Soter issued a public statement where he concluded "Moira. Corporation is investigating offensive operations to deal with Star Fraction's operations in the Placid Region. Their destabilizing activities, while once a minor annoyance to the region's inhabitants, can no longer be tolerated."

5. Subsequent to this statement Veto and Rote Kapelle vessels were sighted in Pelille starsystem where both entities played a defensive role in protecting the Moira HQ starbase from Star Fraction assault.

6. Moira CEO attempted to use Veto CEO "Verone" as an intermediary to offer peace terms (which were rejected by the Free Captains in formal vote) consequence of this being Verone declaring SF had "forced his hand".

Going forwards, from the Star Fraction perspective our enemy is Moira Corporation who continue to assert their rights over Pelille system and have yet to propose a suitable selection of ceasefire/surrender terms to provide to the Free Captains.

In terms of war-aims - the Fraction aim is quite simple - to assert our freedom to operate in Placid and maintain our presence/patrol capacity against the threats of enclosurists and their NBSI sponsors. We are prepared to maintain the wardec against Moira corporation for as long as we choose to operate in the region or until they decide to revise their engagement strategies and claims.

In terms of win/loss in space - The Fraction is down a billion isk in ship losses caused mainly by Moira "bnc'ing" on Rooks and Kings / Veto / Rote strikes but up against Moira with more than 2-1 kills inflicted.

Although in a skirmish of this kind such figures are hardly relevant as best described by one Silas Vitalia in another thread - "its about who is imposing their will on the other in space" and at this time its clear that Moira corporation is largely unable to act at all in those times it is not supported by the full force of Rote/Veto deployment.

In a way you could look for parallels in the SF campaign history with Moira playing the role of the judas-goat in this conflict staked out and targeted by SF activity and occassionally drawing the support of their "big brothers" in Rote/Veto (similar relationship once enjoyed by PIE/CVA). But I think thats the wrong way to look at this. And speaking from the Fraction perspective we did not wardec Moira to draw out Rote/Veto on this occassion but accept if those entities decide its in their operational interests to prop up a Gallente Nationalist enclosurist corp in Placid (that Verone does apparently own shares in) its entirely their choice to do so.

Posted - 2011.06.02 14:19:00 -
[130]Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 02/06/2011 14:19:19I was originally intending to leave this well alone, it being a celebration thread for you people and all of that. I may have my opinions, but I was going to let them rest for now. But seeing as I was namedropped I do have to set the record straight:

Originally by:Jade ConstantineOne has only to read the mournful lonely rambling of Tatsuo Nuko earlier in this thread to see the degree to which she yearns for something more than the company of hollow-eyed killers chanting clichTd paeans

...my dear Jade Constantine, that right there is a most amusing reading of my position and my comments, and requires a comment or two.

First of all, you do need to realize that I was stringing you along quite a bit earlier. I made a short and to-the-point comment to one of your pilots, and you saw fit to make extensive commentary on it including some rather amusing character assasinations and collective judgements that are not befitting anyone that purports to believe in individualism. Since I was bored at the time (due to reasons I cannot comment on) I decided to have fun for a bit. The fact that you read it as "mournful lonely rambling" and that I "yearn for something more" is... priceless.

So let me categorically state the following:

1 - The intellectual debate in Stimulus and the wider Rote Kapelle of which I take a part are as qualitative as any I saw during my long stay in Jericho Fraction and Star Fraction. In many respects even more qualitative.

2 - My statement that you should not judge my opinions, ideology, philosophy or motivations based on random smacktalk observed by random people who are not me, stands. As far as I have seen you (personally) give as good as you take in that department anyhow (though with more verbosity, but smack is smack no matter which words on choses).

3 - Your strategic analysis is the funniest part of this thread.

So, there. You are now free to continue your lonely trip through fantasy land.

Originally by:Tatsue NukoI was originally intending to leave this well alone ...

Ah Tatsue, I think we both know it is never so easy to walk away.

Quote:First of all, you do need to realize that I was stringing you along quite a bit earlier.

"I was just trolling" : we do hear that a lot.

As for your lauding of the "qualitative intellectual debate" in Stimulus and Rote Kapelle, well, perhaps inside your organization it is all "brain trusts" and "study groups" but really who can tell? An organization is judged by its public image and I think we can agree that your's is best exemplified for by fairly mindless local smack-talk and a killboard culture that considers posting images of a cartoon frog's netherparts is the veritable summit of wit.

I am glad you recognize that my interactions with your corp mates in local do generally leave them sweeping up the tattered remnents of their egos from the floor though Tatsue. I'm sure you remember how psychological warfare can be done correctly without recourse to ascii genetalia and lowbrow spurts of homophobic extremism.

So by all means continue to quote my words Tatsue. I don't begrudge them to you. A toast to better days!

Posted - 2011.06.02 15:03:00 -
[132]Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 02/06/2011 15:03:17In case you haven't noticed, we are not so greatly concerned about our "public image". As you are well aware we kill, steal and con to our heart's delight (I'm still very happy about your compliments on that area - thankyou again!) - worrying about a "public image" is sort of pointless. People will either understand, or they won't.

Your analysis of your interactions with my comrades is, however, severely lacking. I assure you that the egos of my comrades remain well inflated, rivalled only by your own. The key is: they don't take it seriously. Thus your verbose exchanges with them in local cannot hurt them, because in RK the ego is fed through action and demonstrated capability - not through attempting the role of a wordsmith. The fact that you appear to link said exchanges in local with the participants' egos is, however, quite telling. Don't take it so seriously dear, because it isn't serious. Ammunition and warheads is serious. Words are not.

I do have other comments I could give in the ideological debate, but this is not the place (perhaps another thread specific to the subject?) - this is to celebrate your achievement in staying alive as an entity for this long, which does deserve some congratulations. Well done.

Originally by:Tatsue Nuko In case you haven't noticed, we are not so greatly concerned about our "public image". As you are well aware we kill, steal and con to our heart's delight ...

Indeed and as I noted it has more to do with concern about other people's "public image" which has the impact of placing Rote Kapelle always in the context of jealousy and yearning for other people's accomplishments. Being concerned with doing down others rather than celebrating one's own attributes always looks a little shonky and bitter at the end of the day.

And on the your defense of your comrade's egos, well you would say that ... wouldn't you? Still the evidence of various flair-ups, emo-fountains and frustrated foot-stamping aside would seem to put the lie to your claims here. Indeed? Why are you still here if you genuinely "don't care"?

Quote:I do have other comments I could give in the ideological debate, but this is not the place (perhaps another thread specific to the subject?)

Feel free to post one.

Quote:- this is to celebrate your achievement in staying alive as an entity for this long, which does deserve some congratulations. Well done.

Originally by:Jade ConstantineIt is easy to make airy accusations (just like the Amarrian Nationalist do) it is far harder to back up those accusations with fact. Especially when I believe I can say with confidence that the Star Fraction is one of the few organizations in New Eden that has ever admitted to a campaign failure. This fact alone gives credibility and authority to our successful results.

I was there while you would muse at length about how you would spin things on IGS after a less than successful week. It is not an accusation.

Originally by:Revan NeferisEither way brings back a question to the present times; these current wars you are fighting against one another now, what is that exactly for? To see which organization should carry the title of true holders of the anarchist banner, or something else?

I'm interested to read a few different versions regarding this new war.

SF moved into our backyard. They put us up on their campaign propaganda as a target. We obliged them by shooting them, as they presented us with the opportunity on multiple occasions. Simple as that.

Esclating wars tend to be very interesting, Thank you both for the briefing, I'll observe the situation a bit closer now that business has brought me to your home too.I predict some profitable times ahead.

Posted - 2011.06.02 17:50:00 -
[139]
Congratulations to the current and past pilots of Jericho Fraction. It's been an interesting eight years, and I'm sure the future will continue to be equally interesting.

Originally by:NemesorI was there while you would muse at length about how you would spin things on IGS after a less than successful week. It is not an accusation.

And you were not there when we fought the Amarrian bloc during Terminus-Est in Providence having fled our company long before Nemesor. But I think we can certainly agree that your witness account is hardly impartial given the many and various bitter statements you have made on this thread. And its hardly fitting for you to complain about "spinning" when isn't that all you have been trying yourself these past days?

I doubt even you would claim the role of objective and impartial commentator.

Originally by:Shintoko AkahoshiCongratulations to the current and past pilots of Jericho Fraction. It's been an interesting eight years, and I'm sure the future will continue to be equally interesting.

Thank you Shintoko. It means a lot to receive such words from one of the original Free Captains and cruise-missile frigate heroes of our history.

Originally by:Jade ConstantineBut I think we can certainly agree that your witness account is hardly impartial given the many and various bitter statements you have made on this thread.

There is no such thing as an impartial witness in this matter. The only "impartial" witnesses are those with no vested interest either way, and none of them have access to the facts and are thus completely useless.

Originally by:Jade ConstantineAnd its hardly fitting for you to complain about "spinning" when isn't that all you have been trying yourself these past days?

Is this a singular or plural "you"? Because in my personal opinion Nemesor has, in this discussion, been the blunt instrument we all love him to be. (A few soft sentimental expressions aside.)

Originally by:Jade ConstantineI doubt even you would claim the role of objective and impartial commentator.

Originally by:Tatsue Nuko There is no such thing as an impartial witness in this matter. The only "impartial" witnesses are those with no vested interest either way, and none of them have access to the facts and are thus completely useless ... There is not a person in this thread that can claim that role.

You seem to have made an entire post agreeing with me, I think you must be slipping

I've heard of more absurd things in my time ... but still, reminds me of a song I used to like to sing:

*smiles into the camera drone and strikes a pose with lips pursed and eyes full of laughter at the absurdity of the image in the minds eyes before snapping her fingers and filling the somewhat ramshackle environment of her Hound's flight deck with a jaunty latin rhythymic beat*

I once met a man with a sense of adventureHe was dressed to thrill wherever he wentHe said "Let's make love on a mountain topUnder the stars on a big hard rock"I said "In these shoes?I don't think so"I said "Honey, let's do it here."

So I'm sitting at a bar in Guadalajara In walks a guy with a faraway look in his eyesHe said "I've got a powerful horse outsideClimb on the back, I'll take you for a rideI know a little place, we can get there for the break of day."I said "In these shoes?No way, Jose"I said "Honey, let's stay right here."

Then I met an Englishman"Oh" he said"Won't you walk up and down my spine,It makes me feel strangely alive."I said "In these shoes?I doubt you'd survive."I said "Honey, let's do it.Let's stay right here."

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