2 Samuel 16:9,11 - "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Let me go over, I pray thee, and take off his head...let him alone, and let him curse; for the Lord hath bidden him."

Matthew 7:15 - “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matthew 24:11 - “…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”

Monday, August 17, 2015

Bait and Switch Religion - The Tower of Babel

Genesis 11:1 – 8: 11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar[b] and settled there.3 They
said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They
used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar.4 Then they said, “Come, let us
build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we
may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of
the whole earth.”5 But
the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building.6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun
to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.7 Come, let us go down and
confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”8 So
the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped
building the city.9 That
is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Bait and Switch Religion – The Tower of Babel

As you can see from recent blog posts, the
focus has shifted from the paid, professional mega-church clergy and their
abuses, to the pew sitter who enables these charlatans and has adopted much of
their nonsense, which causes harm to the family, church and Jesus’ work and
mission. As the 501(C)(3) organizations
that call themselves churches continue to decline and lose influence, instead
of focusing on the gospel of Jesus Christ, these charlatans and CEO’s have
double downed and continued to narrow what it means to be a Christian, so much
so that very few people want to identify as one and certainly don’t want to pay
10% of their gross income, undesignated, to said 501(c)(3) in order to be
considered a “good” Christian. These pew sitters, following the lead of their holy man of God, rail against Supreme Court decisions,
criticism of the pastor, and non-tithers instead of taking a look in the mirror
at the real cause of decline of the spreading of the gospel. They have more access to every language and
country via internet, there are churches on every corner in every town, yet they are losing their ability to reach the lost and have
become irrelevant and even offensive and embarrassing to the next generations.

Read the comments in the previous post to
get a glimpse of what the focus on theology and doctrine look like. It is laughable if not so sad. I have faith in Jesus Christ alone for
salvation, but it seems many charlatans, and many pew sitters that read this
blog, don’t want to accept that I can do that without believing all of their
theological nonsense and their narrow doctrines. So call me what you will. You are just illustrating my point. This kind of back and forth with people like
me who identify as “born again Christians”, not to mention the “nones” and “dones”,
is divisive, destructive and decimating. (Isn’t that cute how all three started
with a “D”, and I didn’t even need to plagiarize a sermon or attend seminary to
do that.)

Which
brings me to the Tower of Babel.
The story is found in Genesis 11.
I know that’s Old Testament. That’s
a discussion for another post. Notice in
Chapter 10 of Genesis, that verses 5 AND
20 AND 31 clearly and unequivocally state that after the flood Noah’s sons and
clans were spread out over the earth accordingly by their languages. They spoke different languages. Obviously, if you believe the text and if you
“take it up with da book.” Nevertheless,
in Chapter 11, Verse 1, we read that “Now the whole world had one language and
a common speech.” No big deal right. So what? Seminarians and theologians can
explain that away. But it’s not whether
they did speak one language or not that is the issue, the key here is what God
almighty did about it. Look at Verses 1 –
9. Particularly verses 6 – 7 that give
us exactly what God was thinking. We don’t have to guess. He speaks and tells us why he says what he
says and why he does what he does. Was
he afraid they would build a tower that reaches heaven? Really?
Take it up with da book. Would nothing be impossible for them unless he
confused their language? Take it up with
da book? Did he not know that we would, within a few centuries, have the
ability to travel into the heavens and that confusing the languages would not
result in anything in the long run. Did
he really believe they could build a tower to heaven? Or did bronze age men make up the story based
on the little knowledge they had at the time?

I don’t know. And more importantly, I don’t care.It has no impact on the gospel message of
Jesus Christ. And yes, I CAN pick and
choose which parts I find believable and which parts I will put my trust and
faith in for salvation. Whether you like it or not. Thank you Jesus,
that I don’t have to believe that we have different languages on earth because
God was worried men might build a tower that reached heaven. Instead, I can put
my faith in your death, burial and resurrection.

And I can’t help but wonder why God wouldn’t
just send a wind gust to topple the tower over each day or two. Or simply kill or inflict illness on the
workers. Why scatter the languages and then require centuries to translate his
perfect, inerrant, and infallible word into the languages and tongue of every
tribe and nation in the world? Ooops. It
makes no sense. Could it be true? Yes.
Does it have to be true? Of course not. And whether you or I believe it
or not doesn’t matter. Hallelujah!

So please don’t present the gospel as a bait
and switch technique. If lost people have to believe all or none, then don’t tell
men and women and children that all they need to do is call upon the name of
the Lord to be saved. Don’t tell them that Jesus died for them and took their
sin upon himself and that if they repent, and put their faith and trust in him as savior
and Lord they will be saved. Don’t read them John 3:15 and 16 and have them
humbly accept Jesus by praying the sinner's prayer. Because that is
bait and switch. They might do those
things and then find out they have been duped, lied to and manipulated. Be sure to be honest up front and tell a lost husband, father or son
that he has to believe in talking donkeys, and the sun standing still, and that
different languages resulted from God’s intervention so that a tower wouldn’t
be built to heaven. Tell that hurting
wife, or mother, or daughter that she can’t really trust in Jesus, or be a
Christian lady, unless she believes it all, understands the Greek meanings of
words, and has her pastor explain what it all means and what she really must
do, which by the way, includes giving at least 10% of her gross income,
undesignated, to whatever 501(c)(3) she chooses to attend.

Christian friends, let the seminarians and theologians and
paid professional clergymen debate all day about the sacred text. Let them preach doom and gloom for our great country. Let them keep building large campuses, hiring new staff, visiting the Holy Land, cruising the Danube River, and hiring family members. The rest of us should be telling people about
Jesus. And if these other subjects enter
the debate, simply be honest and respectfully say: I don’t know, and honestly,
I don’t care about talking donkeys, the sun rotating around the earth and then
stopping overhead, or why Chinese people speak a different language then native American Indians did. And don’t let them ever, ever tell you that
you are not a Christian. Or that you are
not a real man, if you don’t tithe, or believe all of their nonsense. Trust in Jesus. He loves you. Amen?

You, know, I never caught that in chapter 10! What fascinates me about the Tower of Babel story is that, from a YEC perspective, you would have to go from zero population to a population that could generate the technology and the manpower to undertake such a project within a maximum of 300 years. Some demographer actually wrote a special computer program to calculate the maximum population that could have been generated in that time span, assuming that all women were fertile between the ages of 10 and 100 and basically remained pregnant all that time. The results leave one skeptical, to say the least.

The other thing is: how could the current (i.e., post-Babel) languages--starting with, for example the Indo-European languages--have developed as they have in a mere 4,500 years? I don't hold a Ph.D. in historical linguistics, but I'm pretty sure that's impossible.

FBCJWD, I can relate. God has not given me the grace to believe in a young earth or in the Tower of Babel as a literal explanation of our world languages. Yet I'm bombarded with messages in the southern baptist convention that I lack faith and am somehow deficient at best or not a real Christian at worst. So your article is a breath of fresh clean air. Glad I'm not alone.

It is alarming to see people claim to love Jesus but then refuse to hold to the same view of Scripture that Jesus held. Jesus thought the Scripture can't be broken. He said not one jot or tittle would pass out of the Law. He thought that the supernatural, like talking donkeys, was real. He thought that the Old Testament was God's speech.

FBCJax disagrees, and then claims to follow Jesus. He says he doesn't care about the Scripture's inerrancy. That's an enormous problem. You ought to reject these evil pastors and the system that enables them because that system is unbiblical and because those men violate the Scripture, and any other reason should be secondary to that.

Genesis 10: 1Now these are the records of the generations of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah; and sons were born to them after the flood.

2The sons of Japheth were Gomer and Magog and Madai and Javan and Tubal and Meshech and Tiras. 3The sons of Gomer were Ashkenaz and Riphath and Togarmah. 4The sons of Javan were Elishah and Tarshish, Kittim and Dodanim. 5From these the coastlands of the nations were separated into their lands, every one according to his language, according to their families, into their nations.

6The sons of Ham were Cush and Mizraim and Put and Canaan. 7The sons of Cush were Seba and Havilah...

Seriously, if you want to claim that this is an error/contradiction in the Genesis account, at least interact with standard harmonisation practices and attempts before simply pronouncing it an error.

The obvious harmonisation of Gen 10:9 with 11:1 is that 10:9 is in the middle of taking a long view of the history of the people(s) listed in the genealogy. Babel would have taken place somewhere in there before the language separation occurred. What is so hard about this? How is it that this is your go-to for thinking that Jesus was wrong about the Old Testament? And why is it so amazing that miracles happen, that a donkey talked this one time when there was also an invisible angel standing in the road with a sword about to lop off a guy's head? Miracles happen. This one time, another guy whom FBCJax claims to love raised this other guy from the dead. Another time, that same guy rose from the dead Himself.

FBCJax, my friend, you're just going backwards here. Not all was great about the SBC Resurgence, but at least they got the inerrancy thing right. Their whole "The Bible is inspired in spots and you have to be inspired to spot the spots" remains valid to this day. If you should answer it rationally, consistently, and satisfactorily, you'd be the first to do so. I urge you to reconsider your path. You're going the wrong direction.

Rhology, Jesus spoke in parables and Revelation is full of imagery. We are neither salt nor light, nor do we bear fruit and the apple of God's eye is not an apple. We are not to take everything said literally.

It's not out of the question to see certain events in the Bible explained using the same methods. Much was written for the understanding of the people of that day.

And Watchdog is going in exactly the right direction here. These things must be said because the churches of today are corrupting the Body of Christ and destroying our witness to the world.

Darrel - I can sense the condescension in your post. Actually I have "cared" to tell my audience what Jesus Christ means to me. Read the 2nd paragraph of my post.

I feel for you Darrel, I really do. I know the feeling because I've had it before myself in years past. It is hard for you to stomach that someone like me, that just posted this article, might ACTUALLY be a true Christian like you. Hard for you to fathom, isn't it? Hard to think I might trust Jesus and that is enough for salvation. I don't subscribe to your doctrines and theological arguments. I'm not as devout as you.

But I'm still a Christian, like it or not. If you can't accept that, it is YOUR problem, not mine, friend.

Rhology - I do remember back during the Ergun Caner saga, you're darn right I blocked your comments, because I DID consider them to be disgusting and profane on the matter of Caner and his son. So yes, I do block some comments that I consider to be profane. But please keep commenting here, because it helps make my overall point of the past few articles.

The entire Bible is about Jesus and His plan of salvation from start to finish, and if you got that from it, all else is a historical record and geography.

We are to contend for the faith once delivered. That's what we stand on. That's what we would fight for: "For God so loved the world..."

Now look at the different denominations, from the Orthodox Church with their monasteries and icons all the way to the holy roller Charismatics barking in the aisles. They all believe that God so loved the world, but it's their take on the rest of the Bible that divides them. Patriarchy, homosexuals, right wing/left wing and on an on. Now they're calling each other heretics.This is what religion will do to you ~ From a contrite and thankful soul following Jesus, you enter the church and become a spiteful militant, devoted to traditions of men.Paul addressed this in his letter to the Corinthians.

To get someone down the aisle, the gospel is simple. God loves you, sent His Son to die for you, just believe and accept the free gift of salvation.

Once they're on the rolls, that very same salvation is constantly challenged - if they miss a Sunday (or Wednesday, or an event, or Bible Study, or small group, or ...), don't tithe, and/or dare to ask a tough question. Or if not they but their kids do any of those things.

It's really easier to be a Christian than it is to be a church member!

It's always interesting to watch a false prophet fall all over himself to vindicate his new religion. Without fail he will rail against the Lord Jesus Christ while cloaking his words with acceptable vocabulary so as to deceive the gullible who themselves are looking for new ways to rebel against their Creator. Examples to this are found here, on this "blog", with statements such as: 'This blog is not about Jesus, the Bible, or the church...' with the author proceeding on to establish his own "new religion" as one that has no definitive and final authority over him, except his own newly conceived notions as to how things ought to be. This brings us to the next of this new religion's doctrines (let's call it the Goat Barn @FBCJax) where nothing is sacred to the newly self-appointed leader except his own thoughts and ideas. The "Bible" to him is something to be used and discarded at his own whim with he, himself being the only judge as to what is right and what is not. [For those interested, please read Isaiah chapter 14 for the source of this type of "thinking"]. Then the real "hook" is set in the mouth of those who are so eager to follow his convoluted "thinking" as he says that all one needs is to "believe in Jesus". Why, how simple! How could anyone miss this? It's so easy, quick and causes no stir in the soul, all you have to do is "believe". What a revelation!!! A revelation straight from the pit of hell because Mr. FBCJax does not say what that "belief" entails other than some nebulous, mystical, mental assent to an imagined person they call "jesus". But it is not the JESUS of Scripture (which FBCJax does not recognize as God speaking to man) but a "jesus" concocted to satisfy the lusts of an evil heart that only wants to rebel against the Creator, set himself up as his own "god", and depose Almighty God from His throne. And yet for all this he (Mr. FBCJax) still lays claim to being a "Christian". Let's look at his own words to find the truth of that statement or it's falsehood [re-read the latest posts without the blinders that he provides to see the hatred for God and His authority over man-and especially himself-to see for yourself]. Does a genuinely born again, regenerate man have contempt for the Word of God as that exhibited by this man? Can a man speak the truth and say such things as: "What is being destroyed in your life because of your devout religious beliefs and your strict adherence to YOUR holy Scriptures..." [now read Genesis chapter three to see who else has taken it upon themselves to question the Word of the Lord]. Notice it is "YOUR" Scriptures as he disavows himself from the Word of God and he has the gall to claim to be "Christian". Yet again he states this: "Can a man have faith in Christ while rejecting some of the religious nonsense contained in YOUR holy book. Again, it's "your" book, not his. All of this is a subtle way of setting himself up as god.

What FBCJax fails to see is that the very thing he has railed against for all these years is exactly the thing he has become-a self-guided, self-appointed leader of a new religion that will direct people straight to hell, just like all the other "gospels" that float about today. Note that he NEVER offers any good news for anyone and finds praise only for those who have succumbed to his 'new gospel' of faith only. When Christ emerged from the 40 days of temptation His first command was "Repent, and believe in the Gospel" but there is no call for, nor need of repentance in the gospel according to FBCJax. May God grant you repentance.

Readers - I hope you will all read Darrel's comment on August 19th at 10:00 a.m. Of course, he is not representative of most Christians, but he does show you how some people think when anyone, especially another Christian, challenge anything about the doctrines and religion that they are devoted to. As my friend Bob Felton would say, Darrel is not a bad Christian. The scary part is that he is in fact a good Christian. This is the point of my last several blog posts. Look at all the hateful conclusions and allegations Darrel levels against me for what I have written. This is how so many fundamentalists reason. They just can't process any questions without jumping to Darrel's conclusions. All because I am trusting in Jesus for salvation, yet don't believe ALL the Bible as inerrant, and see the harms of religious fanatics. Darrel, yes I do lay claim to being a Christian. And I am not looking to start a new religion. (did you read my post about religion vs relationships?) To challenge the scriptures does not set oneself up as God. Your thinking is so dangerous and foolish, and unfortunately, all too common. Preach it Darrel. People might not believe what I am writing unless they know someone like you.

Darrell, give it up, Tom Rich has core beliefs which are irreconcilable with Christianity as it has been understood and practiced over the ages. His beliefs are quite reasonable from a humanist perspective, for "the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing." Tom is mad as hell at fundamentalist Christianity in general. You don't have a chance at escaping his scoffing contempt if you take "your religion" seriously.

(As an aside, attacking those who take "their religion" seriously is rather silly. "Religion" is a pretty vague and therefore unuseful term. The only thing a "religion" is, is a set of beliefs about the metaphysical questions. Everyone therefore has a "religion", and when you attack those who take their "religion" seriously, you attack them for taking their walks with Christ seriously).

What irks me is that he himself is actually guilty of the same thing he accuses "fundamentalists" of doing - being dogmatic about their beliefs and trying to force them on others. Dog, how are you not with this blog trying to "evangelize" people for your professed brand of, well, whatever it is about Jesus you believe? Your tone smacks of anger and contempt for those who question your beliefs, so it's beyond me how you don't realize your hypocrisy.

Darrel, what happened to the joy of the Lord, the peace that surpasses all understanding, the simplicity of the Gospel message?

Jesus had quite a bit to say to the Pharisees and their legalism. Their idea was to put people in bondage to a religious system. Christ came to set us free and has done exactly that.Those of us who have broken free and walk in that freedom with Christ won't be pulled back into bondage. Those who continue in legalism are miserable, and it shows.

Just as I am without one plea, but that Thy blood was shed for me. And as Thou bid me "Come to Me", Oh, Lamb of God, I come. I come.

I wrote the previous anon comment, I just wanted to ask for clarity from you Dog: you appear to have disdain for fundamentalists at least in part because they presume to tell others that they've got it right and you've got it wrong. Well, it seems to me that you're telling everyone on here, with an air of moral superiority I might add - that you've got it right and they've got it wrong. So, pot and kettle it seems to me.

Do you see what I mean? I seriously doubt you'll acknowledge any error on your part. I don't believe I've ever seen you do that.

Anon 11:10 - as I've told you in our private conversations (not sure why you're posting here anonymously) - your religion has made you stark raving mad and blind. I feel sorry for these commentors. They themselves have turned into the very religious snobs that Jesus harshly rebuked.

But keep it coming, it helps to make my point about how dangerous religion is.

Anon 11:19 - You misunderstand my points in the recent blog posts. Never do I claim to have it right. Yes, I do claim religion has it wrong in some of its teachings and dogma, including evangelicals. I'm just pointing out my questions, issues and concerns about the state of modern evangelicalism, particularly, SBC teachings, dogma and practices. I don't claim to be "God's man" who is "called" to speak for God. I don't claim to be infallible, or that my writings are truth, or that you have to believe all I write or none of it. I don't solicit funds, I don't tell people they are not Christians if they don't agree with me. I do not manipulate people week in and week out to serve in my business, or give sacrificially to my salary and benefits. I don't spend money that was given to God and for God's work. I've never mentioned any moral superiority on my part. I've never even mentioned any lists or categories of "sins" that I use to judge others. (Like homosexuals or Democrats, for example.) Read my posts again please. I am simply stating the obvious in my posts and it really bothers the people who trust more in their Bible and in their own dogmatic beliefs then they do in Christ for salvation. Let me try to get through to you: If you questioned some of the beliefs of the Catholic church, I wouldn't level the charges at you that you leveled at me. Couldn't you honestly love Jesus and be a "good Christian" while merely trying to point out some doctrines and practices and inconsistencies among the Catholic church and some of its most devout followers? If you loved Catholic people, wouldn't you write about some of the abuses to help them out? Don't most preachers/churches (of which I am certainly not one of course) question other faiths and denominations every Sunday? I can't tell you how many times I heard SBC preachers mock and criticize Joel Osteen, Pastor Dayna, Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn, Jesse Duplantis, Paul Crouch, and others, simply because they disagreed with some aspects of their life and ministry and doctrine. Isn't that how they differentiate themselves. All I am doing is questioning my own beliefs and church teachings the same way I was always taught to discern error in other religions and denominations so that I am not led astray. Much of the nonsense being taught in SBC pulpits is just as bad as some of the Catholic dogma, or teachings of the aforementioned. You get it right, anon? They told me to believe it all or none. I've chosen not to do that. I still believe a LOT of it, praise God. They told me to trust Jesus (them!) with my finances like I do my salvation. They say I can't question the preacher. I disagree. They say to "take it up with da book", which I did. And now I'm writing about it. Religion can be dangerous when taken too seriously by some Muslims, Westboro Baptists, anti-Semites, etc. And it can be dangerous when it divides otherwise loving families. Thanks for reading and commenting.

I say Watchdog has it exactly right, and you can hit the road with your pot and kettle.

I had never questioned my salvation until I joined the church and found out that there were a long list of rules and regulations to follow if I were to call myself a Christian. My peace and joy were gone, along with the security I had felt, and all because I was stupid enough to allow the so-called church to come between God and I.

Here's the truth; The same Holy Spirit that had convicted you of sin and drew you to Christ continues to convict you of sins you commit and leads you to repentance throughout your Christian life. He is the one who illuminates and guides you into all truth."Call no man 'teacher' or 'rabbi' or 'father' for you have but One.

The Bible clearly states what is needed for salvation and our walk with the Lord. Go beyond that to your own peril.

Anon 11:19 - Darrel and the other fundamentalists won't pay attention to the words of Just As I Am since the words were written by a woman. Since women can't teach men, according to their fundamentalist, literal dogmatic view of scripture, men certainly can't learn (be taught by) a woman's writings. She should have let her husband publish the lyrics so every one could benefit (sarcasm intended)

A while back I asked you if you believed in a bodily resurrection of Jesus (and yes, it absolutely IS necessary for salvation) and you refused to answer. Why won't you answer this simple yes or no question?

Also, I think that you need to clarify what you mean by "religion" since that's what you are so forcefully attacking. Use of such a nebulous term creates confusion. Yes, I'm VERY serious about my commitment to Jesus and strive to make Him the most important in my life. Am I taking my "religion" too seriously in your estimation?

Anon - Yes, by grace through faith, I absolutely believe in a bodily resurrection of Jesus. And I have no idea if you are taking your "religion" too seriously. I have no reason to believe that you are. Love Jesus. Seek to serve him. Don't get caught up in religious nonsense, theological nonsense, and a devotion that ends up hurting others, or yourself.

"...since that's what you are so forcefully attacking." Anon - Can we stop with the characterizing of a blog that merely puts forth one man's perceptions and views, that may or may not question a religious dogma or charlatan's teachings, as "forcefully attacking" anything. I do understand that any questioning of such religious nonsense can lead to people "believing none of it", and therefore the seminarians and paid professional clergymen, see it as an attack. It's not an attack. ISIS makes attacks, not bloggers who question religious nonsense. Are you attacking the Catholic church when you question their beliefs, teachings and practices. Of course not. Stop this nonsense. Attack is such a strong word. Forcefully attacking is even stronger. Please get real.

So you're actually asserting with a straight face that you have not and are not "attacking" what you call "religion"? Websters defines "attack" in this regard as "to criticize in a harsh or severe way." For you to claim you are not doing this with the words you've written but are instead just "putting forth your perceptions and views" and "questioning" is disingenuous.

I'm not criticizing in a harsh or severe way. So we agree I'm not attacking religion according to Webster. Shew. I feel better now. Would stomping around make it an attack? I guess I'll just stick to writing my perceptions and concerns with Charlatans and fundies.

You could spell Charlatans as Charlottans, as the the Elevators, and still be right on with the word's meaning!!!! Mega-cult ripping off people so the top guy can life in a huge mansion and jet around the world.

There is a scientific basis in linguistics of the tower of Babel mainly on the Universal Grammar as in a genetic component that originated about 100,000 years ago as a mutation in one individual and spread to create thought, language, human Creativity and so on. This has lot more new testament implications on reflection. Here is Chomsky on this scientific origins of thought (language).

About Me

We're small, insignificant, and harmless. But we have a loud, piercing bark that seems to annoy those in mega churches the most. Not Kool-Aid drinkers, only fresh, filtered water, please; with Grape or Cherry flavoring from Walmart. "Let him alone; God hath bidden him to speak:"