Examining the West’s culture of rape

This article is written with the intent of identifying a serious problem afflicting the West and recommending the means by which the West could once again become safe for women.

Catholic priests and Protestant pastors raped at least thousands, and probably millions, of defenseless children over several years. The problem is so widespread that even the John Jay Report—the Catholic-commissioned damage-control exercise—admits that at least 4,392 Catholic priests have been pedophile rapists in the USA alone.

Even the infamous Pope Francis, unable to hide the crime any longer, confesses that two per cent of the Catholic priests are pedophile rapists. In 2009, Pope Benedict, the former Hitler Youth, had confessed that as many as five per cent of Catholic priests are pedophile rapists. Evidently, popes conveniently lie about numbers to suit expediency and the real percentage is likely to be much higher.

Only a fraction of these child rapes have been reported. Very few of the rapist clergymen have been prosecuted. Churches have successfully impeded investigations and denied justice to the victims often with the connivance of a sympathetic judiciary and media. The secularist media occasionally reports on these horrendous rapes but rarely denounces the pope or calls for dismantling the guilty institutions. It counterbalances an occasional report on child rape with a positive propaganda on the pope and Christian institutions. The conservative media would sometimes acknowledge the rapes only to settle an intra-Christian sectarian feud and not out of concern for the child victims. Boz Tchividjian, the grandson of the demagogue, racist, and evangelist Billy Graham, admits that the Evangelical pastors “are worse” offenders than the Catholic priests in raping children.

Media suppresses rape reports

If the widespread rape of defenseless children by Christian clergy is at least minimally reported, the rape of children in Western secular institutions is rarely reported. The leftist media’s suppression of the rape of nearly 1,000 children in the BBC best illustrates this phenomenon.

Jimmy Saville was a television presenter with the BBC. He raped as many as 1,000 children on the premises of the BBC. Many BBC insiders knew about these rapes which lasted several decades. However, the BBC shielded Saville until he died of old age. Mark Thompson, the former CEO of the BBC, thwarted any investigation into and reporting on Saville’s rapes. He lied during the half-hearted questioning to protect rapist Saville and the BBC and to deny justice to the child victims. No secularist has denounced Thompson. Instead, they made him the CEO of the New York Times in 2012.

Mark Thompson is not an exception. He is representative of the prevalent tendency among powerful secularists to usher in a culture of rape and endanger the safety of women and children. Margaret Thatcher made several attempts to get the rapist Saville knighted despite having knowledge of his crimes. Her government was aware of the culture of pedophile rapes in England’s secular and Christian institutions. Instead of going after the rapists, Thatcher intimidated those who attempted to expose them with the help of her home secretary, Leon Brittan, himself a pedophile rapist. The secular establishment was complicit by silence.

At least 16 of Thatcher’s MPs and 30 leaders of the Church of England were pedophile rapists who ran the Pedophile Information Exchange to shield themselves. Honest journalists such as Jill Dando, who courageously attempted to investigate the widespread culture of pedophile rape in the BBC and other secular bastions, were murdered. These gruesome rapes were conveniently reported only after the rapists had died of natural causes.

Contrast between Indian and Western attitude to rape

Contrast this with the Indian response to reports of rape. The spontaneous protests for Jyoti Singh and the sensitive Indian response are well known. The example of Tarun Tejpal, a leading Indian secularist editor of Tehelka, is another. He was arrested for raping a female journalist working for Tehelka. Even though the secular journalists and executives at Tehelka attempted to shield Tejpal, the police acted courageously to arrest the rapist even though he was connected with India’s then ruling Congress party and its leader Sonia Gandhi. More importantly, barring leftists, Indians shunned Tehelka.

In contrast, western secularists eagerly support the BBC despite its criminal guilt in the rape of children. For example, the atheist and biologist Richard Dawkins contributed numerous documentaries to the BBC without letting its culpability in the rape of so many children bother his conscience.

BBC is representative

The BBC episode is representative of secular West’s culture of rape. Rotherham’s Labor MP, Sarah Champion, has revealed that sex gangs probably raped one million British children. She has called it a “national disaster” and has demanded a task force to fight the “horror.” These rapes have gone on for several years and only recently has the media begun reporting.

What explains this silence? How is the secular establishment culpable in such rapes?

Let us begin with the case of Rotherham.

Virtually all the rapists in the 1,400 cases brought to trial there have been Muslims of Pakistani origin. It is reported that the police were hesitant to register cases against Muslim rapists out of fear of being called racists. Secularists characterize even a reasonable criticism of Islam as Islamophobia. They blame even the most heinous crimes committed by Muslims on others—for example, the BBC deviously claimed that an allegedly innocent Mohammed Emwazi became “Jihadi John” because the MI5 verbally interrogated him. Secularists have created pseudo-scientific sociology narratives of ‘institutionalized racism’ and frequently invoke them to deny real crimes and to intimidate law enforcement with the charges of racism. This environment of intimidation prevents law enforcement from taking cognizance of rapes should the culprit belong to certain ethnicities or religions. As a result, rapists flourish.

Roger Scruton points out that all victims in Rotherham were “vulnerable girls” that were “inadequately protected by their families.” This is universally true. Scientific researches of Randy Thornhill and Craig Palmer have decisively shown that rape is primarily motivated by sexual urges. A rapist targets the most vulnerable victim. A well-knit family system offers crucial protection to a female and deters rapists.

Secularists break up family bonds via feminism

Secularists excoriate traditions that nurture close-knit families. They undermine family relationship by portraying it in hostile and suspicious terms under the garb of feminism.

Kavita Krishnan, a Communist and Naxalite activist who featured in the infamous documentary India’s Daughterexemplifies this undermining behavior. She is “disturbed” that Jyoti Singh “had permission from her parents” to go out that fateful night. “Why should she seek permission?” asks Krishnan and belligerently declares that “an adult woman” should be “unapologetic about having the right to go out.” Note that for secularists it is not trust, love, and reciprocal concern which mark relationships; it is all about obsessively and unapologetically exercising one’s rights.

However, human relationships and behavior are more complex and transcend such ignorant secularist obsessions. The example of the parents of Jyoti Singh demonstrates this. They were poor and uneducated. But they sold every possession they had to educate their daughter. The father loaded cargo at the airport – a back-breaking job in a Third World country, to pay for his daughter’s paramedical education. Those parents aren’t conversant in English but they easily related to their daughter’s passion for English movies. In every sense, they lived for her.

Jyoti Singh, unlike secularists, understood the spirit of that relationship. She knew what her parents stood for: love, care, concern, and selflessness. Her parents were her well-wishers and her relationship with them wasn’t characterized by a misguided obsession with and struggle for rights at the expense of love. She knew that every relationship is reciprocal. Her success was their dream. In her dying moments, she expressed grief that they couldn’t realize their dream. The depth of such relationships eludes the understanding of secularists. However, traditional Indian families understand it well. They know that positive changes happen because of trust and love, not because of obsessive demands for rights. It is this trust and family bondage that enables many poor and uneducated Indian parents to educate their daughters and provide them a bright future. It is this trusting family relationship that secularists attempt to destroy.

They have destroyed it in the West, where divorce rates have risen and family has been significantly weakened. Parents are often unaware of who their children’s friends are or what activities they indulge in. I do not at all suggest that parents should be controlling their children’s lives. On the contrary, a healthy family is characterized by transparency. Parents and children – both sons and daughters, make decisions together. In the secular West, the decline in family involvement has given rise to anonymity, which empowers the rapists and makes women and children vulnerable. In 73 per cent of rapes, the rapist is someone known to the victim. If a woman is vulnerable, and the family is not closely involved in her life, it is the rapist who benefits from the anonymity.

The following chart shows that divorce rate and rape rate are directly correlated. The only exception is Finland, where the high divorce rate doesn’t directly correlate with a high rape rate. However, the rape rate in Finland is likely to be under-reported because the very lenient prison term given the rapists in Finland might be discouraging the women from reporting rape. A 2006 study (Amnesty International: Case Closed – Rape and Human Right in the Nordic Countries, p. 94) reports that the average prison term awarded for rape in Finland is only two years. Only four per cent of offenders are actually sent to prison. Such leniency shown, the rapists would surely discourage women from reporting rape:

Source of data: United Nations Report 2012, The Guardian 2013 Rape Report for the U.K., and NCRB Crime in India 2011.

In other words, as a society becomes increasingly secularized, divorce rates increase, relationships become less trusting, and the family is weakened. This leads to anonymity, which empowers and emboldens sexual predators and renders women and children vulnerable to rape. In contrast, traditional Indian culture results in stable families and trusting relationships, and reduces anonymity. As a consequence, as objective analysis of data informs us, women and children face lesser risk of being raped.

Richard Dawkins as an exemplum of racism against Indians

If westerners could contrast the high incidence of rape in their society with the low incidence of rape in India, they could analyze the root causes of the problem. However, the secular tendency to appeal to racism inherent in a sizeable section of the West prevents this introspection. An approving tweet by Richard Dawkins of an op-ed by Zubin Madon filled with racist stereotypes illustrates this point.

Indian men are portrayed, on the basis of anecdotal evidence, as having a hearty laugh at the plight of a woman being raped. The author then invokes an imaginary ride on a boat across the river. Indian men on the boat are shown as ogling at exposed female legs “like a starving Somalian infant pining at a bottle of milk.” British men are presented as a refreshing contrast. Almost yogi-like, they “never look up from their smart phones during the whole ride.”

The secular media would’ve never published such an op-ed packed with anecdotal evidence and racist stereotypes had the subjects being caricatured been blacks instead of Indians. As a result of sustained campaigns by the blacks against racism, racists among the whites are more careful about what they say and write about blacks in public. However, they can stereotype Indians in the most racist manner without consequences. If a brown sepoy could create such stereotypes, racists among the secularists are only too glad to propagate it.

Such stereotypes prevent westerners from objectively evaluating their own societies. The documentary, United Kingdom’s Daughters, made in response to India’s Daughter, demonstrates that westerners are often crudely insensitive to the plight of a rape victim. In that documentary, white British men proudly appear on camera to inform us that women enjoy being raped. One man gleefully says, “Show her your penis. If she cries, she is just playing hard to get.” Racists among westerners needn’t confront this sickening reality in western societies if they could instead invent and propagate racist stereotypes of Indian men as perverts.

Unfortunately, many westerners, who are not racists but are sensitive human beings, also end up internalizing these racist stereotypes spread by the secularists. By sheer repetition, such stereotypes create the perception that unlike the depraved Indian men, western men are knights in shining armor. As a result, very few westerners realize that the incidence of rape in the West is orders of magnitude higher than what it is in India. They do not realize that the destruction of family resulting from the spread of secular culture is at the root of this pervasive problem.

Secular West’s culture of rape

Secular West’s culture of rape is four-fold in nature. First, it is prevalent in the institutions secularists cherish. Secularists are guilty of thwarting any meaningful investigation into these rapes and of suppressing honest reporting. Second, secularists have created false narratives and pseudoscientific explanations to rationalize rape and to blame it on all but the rapists. This often impedes law enforcement and allows the rapists to flourish. Third, the secularist obsession with misguided feminism and the undermining of the family as an institution has deprived women and children of the most valuable defense against rape. Statistics show that the weakening of family directly correlates with the increase in rape. Fourth, secularists appeal to the racism inherent in a sizeable section of the West by creating false and racist stereotypes of Indian men. These stereotypes present white men as desirable and Indian men as depraved rapists. As a result, many westerners live in a make-believe world where they imagine that their societies are rape-free whereas India is infested with rapists. This deluded belief allows rapists to flourish while endangering the safety of women and children.

As I explain here, while the tendency to rape may be rooted in biology, memetics often influence whether or not such tendencies manifest. A society that curbs the spread of the virulent secular meme protects the vulnerable from the rapists. Reasonable westerners should boycott institutions such as the BBC that are guilty of fostering a culture of rape.

English perversion is so entrenched that in the 1970’s, around 30 years after the “civilized” English ran from India after the 1946 Naval Mutiny, they set up a Child Rape supporting group, Paedophile Information Exchange, to try and legalize the practice of raping children. One of the members was Peter Hayman, a man knighted by the Queen. He was also a member of MI6, one of the British Intelligence agencies. They even received government funding.

Basically, this prevents whistleblowers from coming forward, as they can be jailed under the Official Secrets Act. Some English MPs had tried to prevent punishment for whistleblowers, but it was voted AGAINST in Parliament.

Now this is contrary to what Theresa May and David Cameron said publicly last week, which indicates that the English Elite are up to no good and trying to continue the cover-up.

Concerns for BBC Cover Up

The BBC propagandists, having slandered Indians with their outrageous documentary “India’s Daughter”, are now potentially trying to produce a documentary that will claim there are no such thing as VIP child rapists in England. They want to pretend as if recent news of SERVING MPs – see the first article – being involved in child rape, does not exist

http://exaronews.com/articles/5527/bbc-at-war-over-panorama-on-claims-of-vip-paedophile-network
”
Another insider at the current-affairs programme said: “It’s approach is in line with a view among some BBC managers that Newsnight should not have even tried to expose Jimmy Savile.”
Work on the programme started at least a year ago when Panorama considered having David Aaronovitch, a columnist on the Times well known for dismissing claims about VIP paedophiles as a “conspiracy theory”, to present it. ”

Now this article notes, on the positive, that there was a counter-push, so hopefully we will now see a proper exposure of the VIP child rapists of England.

Romeolima

Every single figure in this article is untrue and most are multiplied by at least ten and in some cases 100 and the ‘Facts’ equally so. For instance, Kalavai Venkat alleges the BBC deviously claimed that an allegedly innocent Mohammed Emwazi became “Jihadi John” because MI5 verbally interrogated him. This is untrue. The BBC reported that an organisation called CAGE alleged that MI5 interrogating Emwazi, after he tried to join a Jihadi Group, had pushed him into extremism. All the other ‘facts’ are equally suspect and are gleaned from allegations on conspiracy websites not reputable News sources. Another instance is Venkat’s report of the ‘Sensitive’ reaction to student protest. The authorities reaction was actually Tear Gas, Water Canon and beatings with canes. This is from your own Indian TV News reports. My family happen to be religious but I don’t agree secularism is causative of rape. Rather it is resistance to freedom and change that is causing the problem. If a man is largely unemployed, poor in consequence and feels powerless, his fundamental dignity is bound up with the respect he believes he is entitled to as a man. When he sees successful and independent women enjoying life and freedom, not sitting at home cooking their husbands dinner, it is an affront to him. How India deals with this 21st Century dichotomy will be of great interest.

English Boarding Schools

For those perplexed at the scale of the rape of young children by those in power in England, and wondering how it has been allowed to go on for decades without any real fight against it, and especially, WHY the Upper English Caste has so many rapists to the extent there is a “Westminster Pedophile Network”, we have to look at an old English custom, the boarding school, where many have been abused/raped by either older children or Headmasters. And this includes the boarding schools of the elite, such as Ashdown House. Ashdown House’s primary headmaster was arrested on child sex abuse offenses last year, with charges spanning 28 years of his tenure.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2688344/Former-headmaster-prep-school-attended-Boris-Johnson-Damian-Lewis-arrested-suspicion-child-sex-offences.html

Curiously enough, the author notes Richard Dawkins as apologizing for the “mild paedophilia” he encountered there:
“Some who loathed their school days end up endorsing the system. Among these are Winston Churchill and Richard Dawkins. In his new
autobiography, the scientist reckons the “mild paedophilia” he encountered was of its time and thus acceptable. ‘I am very conscious
that you can’t condemn people of an earlier era by the standards of ours,” he has said. ”

So Richard Dawkins doesn’t condemn the abuse of children yet is so willing to slander a nation? Curious indeed.

Continuing on, the author also notes major UK political players who attended Ashdown: ” Boris Johnson went to my schools – Ashdown and then Eton, and Andrew Mitchell, the former chief whip, went to Ashdown before going to Rugby. Of course, there’s never been a government, even a Labour one, in which privately educated people were not among the major players. But, as critics like to point out, this clutch of male ruling politicians
embodies the grand Victorian public school virtues – or failings – more than most: suppression of emotion, devotion to the team, distrust of
women and minimal empathy for the weak and ordinary.”

He also notes how Nick Clegg, current Liberal Democrat leader, was a head-boy at another school where the headmaster was likewise charged with child rape: “For two decades there has been talk of an enormous abuse scandal brewing behind the facade of the 20th-century British private education system.Last December the story sprang to life. A long-running case against Peter Wright, the 83-year-old former headmaster of a school in Buckinghamshire called Caldicott,came to an end. Wright was found guilty of 12 counts of sexual abuse: one of the piquant details was that Nick Clegg had been joint head-boy at the school; his colleague, the other head boy, was one of the principal witnesses against Wright.”

The author also notes how the Headmasters let older boys get away with sexually abusing younger boys: “Through friends who had also been at Ashdown, I got more detail. The complaints, from a group a few years younger than me, were indeed horrific: sexual acts much more intrusive than Mr X’s pathetic bribe andfumblings. There was talk of blackmail and predatory older pupils encouraged by abusive teachers. That chimed with my adult perception of the bizarre sexualisation of life at Ashdown, especially the system of reward and discipline. At least two children I knew who had been given authority over younger kids used it to force sexual contact – Williamsonseemed to have turned a blind eye. There was talk of connections with
house masters at Eton, to which Ashdown fed pupils. There had been at least one suicide. There were more teachers in the complaint.”

He also makes an important note relative to England’s colonial history: “Besides, the sexual abuses were, in my version of the story, just
detail: the real narrative was of five years of deliberate crushing of our individuality, the suppression of emotional freedom. Sexual bullying
seemed just a part of the violence and cruelty that was the basic currency of the school and hundreds like it; the tools with which it
squashed our little forms into the mould. Out of it would come upper-class Englishmen and women – ready to go and run an Empire or, at
least, take charge of lesser mortals with normal feelings.”

This is where the cycle of child rape perpetuates itself in England, at the very least with regards to the boys destined for power, accustomed to sexual abuse and rape from their childhoods, later in life showing at best major indifference to the child rapes of the powerless child (such as those taken from orphanages, which is how the MPs and people like Jimmy Savile went about their psychopathy), if they were not indeed part of the VIP Child Rapist Networks.

Shubhangi Raykar

Shri Kalavi Venkat I share you views once again. The girls from England had wrong kind of liberal culture and probably were not questioned seriously at home about whose company they were keeping.Freedom one can understand but vigilance on the part of parents is the price of liberty. 11 and 12 year old girls are too young to understand the perils of freedom and who held them close to heart when they were victimized only because they were helpless under the British behaviour of political correctness. So were , probably their mothers. My heart weeps for them just as it weeps for Nirbhaya and now her parents.

Kalavai Venkat

Indeed, orthodoxy is nothing to be ashamed of. Both boys and girls, as well as men and women, and the elderly must be protected where it is necessary. If our grandparents travel somewhere, we always inquire whether they have support in case of emergency. It is irresponsible to turn a blind eye to reality in the name of freedom. Sadly, western culture has erred on this count. It has resulted in a horrible culture of rape of which the children and women are the victims.

TSK

If west has a problem, they have to solve it. You can’t solve their problem. We have a problem in India, and that is what we should be discussing and finding ways and means to solve it. You are tryng to sweep India’s problens under the carpet by pointing fingers at the west, they too have it. This tu tu me me attitude will serve no purpose.

dr.viraj pradhan

The film and daily reporting of rapes in our media also do not serve any purpose.

prashants5 .

@TSK : You are very correct. However, in the reality it doesn’t work that way. When west is hell bent on studying and interfering about India’s problem, we also have to carry “Purva Paksha” ( means, studying the West and their problems and publish it) in order to protect and defend the Integral Unity of India and hence the Stability of any Non-Secular Govt. At the same time, like you said, India also must work to solve it’s own problem. Both are equally important.

Please read Rajiv Malhotra’s “Breaking India” you would understand why articles as above, are absolutely required in main-stream and other media. The enemy is very strategic and has long and long history of divide and rule policies. India has to be very careful while dealing with these Breaking India forces.

The Epidemic is in Westminster

If we really want to examine the West’s attitude, especially in England, it is also important to look at a major player: Their intelligence agencies, who are complicit – and likely continue to be, or at least are attempting to do so – in the cover up of the prolific child rapes in England. No calls yet to transform these agencies. Here is an article from today:

September 2013 – MI5 ‘held on to’ Smith evidence
Channel 4 Dispatches reported that the security services had held on to evidence of Smith’s abuse in Lancashire in the 1960s. Former Lancashire Special Branch detective Tony Robinson told Dispatches he was contacted by MI5, who requested he send them the file by special courier.

April 2014 – MI5 ‘put pressure on police’
Labour’s Simon Danczuk, a successor to Smith as MP for Rochdale, published a book, Smile for the Camera: The Double Life of Cyril Smith, saying MI5 and Special Branch put pressure on the police to drop their investigation into Smith’s activities.

February 2015 – MI5 ‘knew about Kincora abuse’
Gary Hoy, who was abused at the Kincora children’s home in Belfast in the 1970s, was granted permission to launch a legal
challenge against the government’s decision to exclude Kincora from itsjudge-led abuse inquiry.
He said MI5 knew about the abuse he and others suffered, but failed to do anything about it. The allegation is that by allowing
the abuse to go on, the security services would be able to blackmail powerful paedophiles.

March 2015 – agent ‘caught on camera’
BBC Newsnight said it had been told that a police operation into alleged abuse by Smith was scrapped shortly after he was
arrested in the 1980s. According to an unnamed source, officers gathered evidence, including video footage, from a flat in south London. Smith
was allegedly one of those caught on camera, along with a senior member of the intelligence agencies.

March 2015 – victims ‘threatened’ by MI5
Investigative journalist Don Hale (click on link for video) told Channel 4 News he had given the police evidence from interviews he had carried out with Smith and Brittan.
He said some victims and whisteblowers who had approached him had been “threatened” by police officers and MI5, “who’ve warned them not to talk to me or any other journalist and warned also that they might lose their pensions and about the officials secrets act and this is happening even up to the last few weeks”.

Romeolima

Gosh. Yet another screen name from you. Your accusations are only possible because this country is dealing with the historical offences and their cover up and it is being openly reported. BTW, changing your screen name doesn’t conceal the fact you are only one person making the same ridiculous accusations over and over. Look up IDIOLECT.

Stop Whinging About Usernames

Listen hear, as you might say.

You keep on focusing on the user name, a typical ploy used when you don’t have a rebuttal to facts. You claim, “same ridiculous accusations over and over”, but why is it ridiculous? I stated a fact that the Intelligence Services are involved. You offer no real counter-argument. Instead of worrying about user names you should be debating actual content. Your posts are limited by your moaning over user names.

And England’s “open” reporting is half-hearted at best, with the TRUE open reporting only limited to Exaronews.com and The Mirror. As I’ve already mentioned, there was an article written the other day by a writer from the Rochdale Alternative Paper accusing the mainstream English media of a “36 year cover up”

So your so-called “open” reporting does not impress one of the few good journalists in your country, who has specific scorn for the BBC, whom, he mocks by writing: “Earlier this week the BBC “discovered” the story for the first time. Lots of harrumphing, hand-wringing, outrage and angst poured over a story that it has sat on for decades.”

Why did the BBC sit on this story for decades? Is it, perhaps, because they had their own vicious child rapist, Jimmy Savile, within their midst?

Romeolima

Your ignorance is amazing. This was the Barbara Castle story that I have mentioned several times in the past years, with links, as an example of the iniquity of ‘D’ Notices. As I said, no judge would issue a ‘D’ notice now. Don’t you understand ? I think the BBC was initially craven and self serving over Saville but you are just anti British, anti BBC and anti Christian so I still question your agenda. That amount of hatred for a country and its Public Service Broadcaster makes one wonder where your true allegiance lies.

Concerns for BBC Cover Up

LOL what are you talking about with regards D notices? What exactly does that have to do with the post? There were plenty of other stories besides Barbara Castle that could have been printed.

The Rochdale Alternative Newspaper journalist speaks of a 36 year cover up. Your English journalists had decades to report on the rape of the children of England, but they covered it up.

Romeolima

The journalist to whom you refer had a file of papers about prominent paedophiles handed to him in 1984 by Barbara Castle, an ex minister and member of the British Cabinet. He was the subject of a ‘D’ Notice and everything was confiscated. If you don’t know that, you really shouldn’t be commenting on the subject.

Punishment for Whistleblowers

Err I do know all about that. But the story is much than that, and much more could have been reported.

Look at the arrogance of Romeolina saying, “you really shouldn’t be commenting on the subject.” The typical Anglo-Saxon tyrannical, controlling streak coming out. You, Romeolina, are of no significance to be instructing anyone whether or not they can “comment on a subject”. What are you going to do anyways, whine about user names?

Let me remind you, the English no longer rule India, and her subjects really have no say in what Indians comment on. You’d be better off worrying about your London bankers, who have ruined your economy – other than for the rich of course. They stole the loot of India and starved tens of millions of its citizens. And now you are next in line – your economy is close to annihilation and all you can do is worry about the comments of an Indian. Your elite have people like you under their thumb – no wonder they’ve gotten away with rape and murder of their own populace for so many decades. They English elite know that people like Romeolina would prefer to be distracted by the “news” of other countries than take care of problems at home, that the servile commoners like Romeolina would prefer to wag their finger at the “atrocities” of the third world than worry about institutionalized rape in their own backyard.

You’re going to be seeing plenty of comments from I and others on this story, whether you like it or not. It is a major human and geopolitical interest story – the mass rape of children in the UK and the coverup by its politicians and journalists.

And when you make a silly statement like that, expect double the comments.

Romeolima

My God, you are behaving as if you are actually mentally unstable. If you don’t understand a subject, you should ask questions, not make crazy accusations as if they are fact. It was US Bankers who started the 2008 crash with sub prime product and India was not impoverished by the British. Why are you blaming the UK for everything ? Your total ignorance of the way the UK works would amuse me except for the fact that people who have never been here might believe you. Are you banned from entry or did the BBC turn you down for a job ? What is wrong with you ? There are people on this site who have upvoted my comments and posted dialogue. You really are being very racist.

Jenny Fletcher

Slagging off western culture does not in any way justify or lessen the rape and murder of an Indian student. It is merely an attempt to gloss over the appalling attitude of India to its womenfolk. I will not visit India as a tourist until such time as your Government takes proper action to safeguard women while they are out in public and I most strongly object to any suggestion that they should curtail or limit their right to be alone and in public at any time of the day or night.

Kalavai Venkat

Yours is a typical ostrich-like denial Jenny Fletcher. My article demonstrates that rape is quite an epidemic in the West whereas it is a much lesser problem in India. It is sheer hypocrisy to focus disproportionate attention to individual cases of rape in India while turning a blind eye to the millions of cases of rape in the West. I have not suggested that women’s rights should be curtailed – I have stated the opposite. Instead, I have shown that western culture actually makes women and children more vulnerable to rapists by destroying the institution of family. Some aspects of western culture are terrible and need to change – the epidemic of rape being one. If you focus on changing it rather than tour India, I would only be very happy.

Jenny Fletcher

The reason that the statistics in India are so low is that rape goes massively unreported – as mine was – purely because of the dismissive and unfriendly attitude of police and courts. In the UK, we would NEVER allow ‘eve teasing’ the public taunting of young women and schoolgirls that is commonplace on your streets. We have not ‘destroyed the institution of family’ rather we have strengthened it by extending it to everyone. Yes, we do have men whose attitude to rape is quite appalling but they are in a minority. It certainly isn’t an epidemic.
Because of my own experiences, I have always fought and campaigned to ensure that rapists do not get off lightly – compare that with Indian courts who invariably blame the victim. But what I really object to is the idea that ‘secularisation’ is responsible. Non-adherence to a faith or religion does not make a person a rapist. To suggest such a thing is preposterous. The ridiculousness of it is proven by the fact that so much evidence of abuse has emerged ascribed to Christian ministers of religion. What is actually going on here is an unlabelled attempt to show that eastern religions are somehow morally superior. The belief that rape ‘does not matter’ or that it is the victim’s fault arises from men automatically assuming themselves to be superior and having a right to be in control of their families and of society in general. This is not a feature of modern Western society where equality is an expectation, and supported in law. I should not have to remind you that the wholesale rape and abuse of young girls recently uncovered was perpetrated by Asian men. I don’t care what their stated religion is. It is culture not belief that feeds the kind of attitude that makes men believe they have a right to carry out such disgusting acts. Forced marriage – common in the Indian sub-continent is now illegal in the UK as is any attempt to take a girl or woman out of the country in order to force her to marry,
I will tell you this much. No newspaper editor in the UK or even in the USA would even consider publication of such a poorly researched and sensationalist article as you have written with its racist overtones. No way do we ‘turn a blind eye’ to cases of rape in the UK. Our police and court systems to deal with it are not perfect but they are improving very rapidly compared to even 20 years ago. I don’t believe that at this time, India has any real intention of improving or any real wish to change the status quo.

1. Appeal to Incredulity and No True Scotsman Fallacy: When your premise that India must have a higher rape rate is contradicted by facts, you attempt to discount the facts by claiming that rape is under-reported in India. You need to prove 2 things to establish that premise: A.) cite a responsible statistical study to demonstrate that rape is under-reported in India and B.) It is under-reported so much more than in western countries as to skew the outcome by orders of magnitude, e.g., in the USA 68% of the rapes are under-reported.

2. Data shows that it is in the West that courts and police are unfriendly toward the rape victim. In Finland, just 4% of rapists are sentenced. In the U.K. only 25% of the rapists are even brought on trial – fewer punished. In contrast, India convicts over 25% of the rapists – one of the highest in the world.

3. Rape statistics confirm that it is widespread in the West. Merely denying it won’t suffice. All you need to do is to look at the bar chart I have presented. Here, one should think reasonably and not let nationalistic feelings or notions of western superiority interfere with reasoning.

4. I didn’t say that non-adherence to religion makes one a rapist. I am afraid you are at you are being imaginative here. I merely pointed out that the secular culture of feminism weakens families and renders women vulnerable to rape. In the face of high divorce rate in the West, it is silly for you to claim that you’ve strengthened the family.

5. This article doesn’t talk about Eastern religions much less “that eastern religions are somehow morally superior.” Of course, they are morally superior to Abrahamic religions but this article is not concerned with making that case. You may not care what the religion of the rapists of Rotherham is but it is pertinent. It is Islam and Islam teaches that kafir women are fair game. Here too, secularists are guilty of inventing euphemisms such as “Asian” or “South Asian” to protect the Muslims at the expense of white females who were raped.

Jenny Fletcher

Excuse me, I don’t have to prove anything here. It’s your article. You don’t quote any sources for your statistics.You have now made your position perfectly clear now when it comes to the cultural and religious viewpoint from which you are writing. Given that viewpoint I wouldn’t expect any kind of balance in what you write or what you believe is a correct and moral stance.
When the young woman was raped and murdered on a bus in India, it was made very clear that rape was under-reported in India for the sole reason that victims are stigmatised and blamed – to a much greater degree even than in the West. It was said then that it was impossible to estimate the degree of under-reporting because of the culture of blame and silence. Saying that over 25% are convicted is meaningless if a far lower proportion of attacks even get as far as the police station. That accounts only for the reported rapes. It doesn’t mean that 25% of rapists are convicted or even that they receive just and fair sentences.

Nothing akin to ‘Eve teasing’ occurs anywhere in any level of UK society today nor has anything like it ever occurred in my lifetime (I am 63). I cannot imagine what would make you think or believe such utter nonsense.

Now we come to this. Exactly in what way does feminism weaken families? Feminism has brought about gender equality in the workplace so that women who need to work to support their families can earn a decent wage or salary. Feminism has put women in positions of responsibility in Government so that they can bring about policies and laws which protect all women.
In what way does feminism make women ‘vulnerable’ to rape.

The ONLY thing, I will say again, the ONLY THING that makes women vulnerable to rape is the disgusting attitude of men who believe that they have the right to take any woman they wish and do not accept that if a woman says no to sex that she means no and that is as far as it goes. That distorted belief cuts across all religious and racial groups.

And incidentally, it makes no difference what I do or do not believe. I have given you no clue or grounds for pinning me to any religious or cultural group or to exclude me from any of them. You will find feminists of every faith across the world, never mind just in the UK. And finally Asian is not a euphemism it is a straightforward and factual racial description and is not intended to target or protect anyone. Why on earth would I wish to protect them?

Kanagaraj Easwaran

“The ONLY thing, I will say again, the ONLY THING that makes women vulnerable to rape is the disgusting attitude of men who believe that they have the right to take any woman they wish and do not accept that if a woman says no to sex that she means no and that is as far as it goes. That distorted belief cuts across all religious and racial groups”. Excellent example of male stereotype. Attitudes are actually a set of beliefs. Values are a set of attitudes. A culture is an organisation of values. If it so attitudes are essentially cultural. Then why there is variation in the rape rate. Why it is far higher in the west than in the west. In spite of that why western media is blaming Indian culture for rape.

The Epidemic is in Westminster

LOL you are completely deluded. First of all this is hardly an Islamic site, and everyone knows the majority of UK groomers at the lower level were Pakistani Muslims. And the forced marriages that occurred with UK Asians were again, predominantly Pakistani Muslims. Secondly, no mention of the WHITE ANGLO-SAXON Pedophiles rampaging around UK territory raping young children? Why are you hiding from that?

“Eve teasing” hardly compares to what the Anglo-Saxon Elite of England have been doing to their children for 50+years.

Your newspapers have published numerous libel against Indians, and Hindu males in particular, along with pseudo-documentaries such as “India’s Daughter”, where they deliberately edited it out information that would have RIGHTLY examined rape as a global issue, preferring instead the propaganda against Indians, something that actually backfires when it comes to helping the problem.

What your newspapers were instead doing, was covering up the crimes against Elite Anglo-Saxon males against English children. An article today in the Guardian openly states that:

The author is particularly scathing toward the BBC, of whom he writes, “Earlier this week the BBC “discovered” the story for the first time. Lots of harrumphing, hand-wringing, outrage and angst poured over a story that it has sat on for decades.” He might have added, “and propaganda against other nations rather than looking within.”

Jenny Fletcher

where did I say that this is a pro-Islamic site? where did I even hint that it was. On the contrary, it was clear that the article’s author was speaking from a Hindu perspective, but racial stereotypes are not important to me. I’m here as a woman and as a rape victim myself many years ago to say to the author and the male commenters here, go look in the mirror. If what you see is the image of a person who blames rape victims for their attack, then YOU are no better than the rapist.

Romeolima

You really are ridiculous. Are you honestly suggesting that less than 300 paedophiles in the UK is the equivalent of all the rapes in India, including the paedophiles because I don’t think we have a monopoly on that. Each rape is an appalling experience for the victim and repeated child abuse is particularly vile. No UK Judge would dare to issue a ‘D’ notice nowadays and a cover up is impossible. That is why the stories are public. People who kept quiet are now talking. You would do better to look to India’s situation than scream about the UK.

vlaxmanan

You are nominated as the greatest OSTRICH finder ever! Congrats.

Jenny Fletcher

Really, how is that? You decline to comment on my challenge that rape is the fault of one person and one alone and that is the rapist. That is one uncomfortable truth that you totally fail to address in your article. In contrast you look for every avenue to blame the unfortunate victims, not just of rape but also of child abuse.

Kanagaraj Easwaran

Individual is always part of society and rape is a social act not simply biological atrocity. For it the family and community of the rapists is also accountable. Only blaming the rapist will not prevent rape. For rape prevention punishment alone not sufficient.

Romeolima

Well put.

Romeolima

Your article, written in America where you live, is a mass of disparate bits of information, crushed together to conflate the message of your choice.

Jishnu

Oh really? What exactly is your locus standi to judge India when your record is worse?

And by the way, hundreds of thousands of evangelic frauds from west keep scavenging on India’s misery day on day, preying for converts and advertising our misery to the world. It makes no big difference whether one like you add to the problem or don’t – clearly you can’t add on the solution.

Romeolima

I am a Christian of the old fashioned scholarly type and I sincerely hope that you can fend off all evangelicals. When it comes to Religion, it really is up to the practitioners to regulate themselves and scrutinise any ancient practices that are still being implemented in the 21st century.

Jishnu

🙂 Just that whether we are able to or unable to fend off, the evangelical problem is quite consciously sponsored by west, including governments. Are you saying creating problems is a right of the west and facing it the duty of India and other eastern cultures?

Romeolima

Of course I’m not saying that and I suspect you know I’m not saying that. Are you sure the British Government sponsors Evangelicals ? Could it be the Americans because the UK has strict laws about Church and State. Please do not take this as a criticism but I think there is concern about the Caste System, particularly the untouchables, and conversion to another religion might appear to solve their low status. Does it ? I would genuinely like to know.

Jishnu

US definitely and very aggressively. UK supports evangelism not as much as US but definitely a lot of anti-India NGOs.

Criticism is fine with me as long as it is objective. India is far more concerned about the corruption of caste and has taken several measures over decades for correcting the social disablement including affirmative action. In fact there is significant British contribution to caste exploitation in India with the feudal imposition during colonial rule along with the slave system introduced by Turko-Mongols. Native system of endogamous cultural units is neither feudal nor enslaving. And immediately after independence we set out to set things right.

Conversion and caste are not related the way evangelists advertise: if that was true, they would convert much before independence with Brits and Moguls were in power. Both these invaders were historically the worst exploiters of those whose saviors they are now pretending to be. Today’s conversion is primarily because of India’s proxy-colonial constitution and successive anti-Hindu anti-national congress governments for which we cannot blame British but only ourselves. The govt was recommended by experts like justice Niyogi as early as 1950’s to prevent the evangelists from deepening social divide and friction and exploiting such divide for gaining converts. Christian strength in Indian academics is a significant contributor in malicious propaganda and suppression of historic truth of how the group divides came about and who is causing it.

Romeolima

That is a hearteningly truthful appreciation of the situation. The problem with the British (of which I am one) was that historically, we thought it would be a ‘good idea’ to utilise the caste system hence one caste being in the Army (and of course the Sikhs and Muslims) another caste being administrators, another being laborers etc. We also did it in Africa and even imported Indians to run the railways and infrastructure so causing the upheaval of the Ugandan Asian crisis generations later. I’m not unaware of my countries culpability in some areas but obviously, my knowledge is not from the standpoint of being Indian. You have a strong TV News culture and although you have a perfect right to make a programme about the UK’s ‘Rape Problem’ I wish you would turn the resources to, for instance, investigating the NGO’s that you mention. In the UK we help finance some NGO’s via DfID and if you feel their agenda is less than benign, you should complain officially through Commonwealth, Intergovernmental and UN Channels. India should not be the target of any covert social engineering any more than the UK should be.

Crocodile Tears

How naive are you, Romeolina?

Do you think an official complaint through Commonwealth, Intergovernmental and UN Channels is going to do anything? You think the Commonwealth, under the ENGLISH monarchy, is a body to prevent the nefarious use of NGOs based out of the United Kindgom?

What India will do is start banning organizations engaged in social engineering or propaganda. Such as “India’s Daughter”, appropriately banned due to its clear propaganda. Expect further NGOs to be banned due to anti-national activities.

Also, you didn’t just “utilize” the caste system, you actively manipulated it. Go ahead and read some of Rajiv Malhotra’s writings to further understand this.

Romeolima

Look here you silly propagandist, our Monarchy are very pro India and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office would take underhand manipulation of Britain’s financial grants to NGO’s very seriously. You are like a child in a playground chanting insults that you don’t understand. I’m not counting but this must be at least the tenth screen persona you have invented. I’m beginning to think you are Kalavai Venkat, the author of this facile and inaccurate attack on a film 90% of the people who are commenting here have not seen. In fact, I doubt you have seen it. In view of your determined attempts to stir up hatred against the British I can only say Thank God it is the US who have the honour of your residency and not the UK.

Shubhangi Raykar

I feel very concerned about the British children who are facing the rapes because of the penchant of the British govt for political correctness and the attitude of the British police who treated the girls from Rotherham as slags.

Romeolima

I agree. The UK Police who ignored these crimes are being hauled over the coals for their prejudice and stupidity. Many have been suspended from duty.

Jishnu

Thanks 🙂

We have a bad TV news culture not a strong one 🙂 English media in India is for the most part either funded by pro-evangelists or lefties but at any rate anti-Indian. NDTV, IBN, BBC India to name a few but all/most of them have their vested interest against the nation: they protect criminals and glorify crime, and are just glorified anti-social elements. So as one can expect the Indian media will make no programme about UK’s or any other country’s dark side but about India’s dark side and west’s bright side only. Any pro-India thinking is to be found on “non-mainstream”, “internet-Hindu” websites like the current one. The media-NGO-spy-civil society movements-church etc are all part of a chain and govts in the west incl UK (to a lesser extent than US of course) invest much in them. UN isn’t really innocent in this matter that it will act 🙂 A bunch of evangelist frauds in India operate in liaison with UNICEF etc. This isn’t difficult to understand given the fact of US-Europe primacy in UN.

Indian govts have to crack these down within India if they are to protect Indian interests. News channels like BBCIndia need to be reigned in, against which there is a fake free speech bogie. They use freespeech martyrdom quite well to avoid any scrutiny of their accountability. Not sure how much it happens in west but extensively with English media in India. So good govts have tough time handling these, not to speak of sold out ones like successive congress regimes.

Romeolima

I am surprised you say that some Indian TV Stations are not pro India. They don’t have to be anti any other country to be pro their own. I’m inclined to think of India as an intellectual powerhouse in view of the Novels and Films that come from there but if that is not being used in India’s interests, I don’t see what the West can do except to try and be scrupulously fair when reporting from India.

Jishnu

Unfortunately, that is the fact. Indian mainstream(esp English) media is anti-India not just not pro-India. Their ownership has big share from the west. These two are not unrelated facts 🙂

Romeolima

Seeing as we have RT (Putin TV) and Al Jazeera that people believe are more reliable than our Brit owned TV, I know what you mean 😉

Shubhangi Raykar

First let me tell you that the Indian law was similar to the British law but now it is even more stringent.
Caste system is crumbling and has gone on crumbling for a long time. The problem of untouchability is also blown out of proportion. Adivasis -aborigines are not untouchables. It is blown out of proportion by the West and the American Evangelists. Christian missionaries were not given visas earlier if they wanted to propagate.
In the past 15 years they are being given visas and the result is devastating. There is bound to be a Hindu reaction to all this. Conversion does not solve the problems. It creates false sense of superiority. Castes exist in Christians and Muslims. Hindu scriptures do not advocate caste system It is more a social problem. Hindus are uniting and rising above caste and creed.Churches are emulating Hindu practices to convert. Yoga which very Indian and Hindu is being given a Christian hue. There is inculturation like Jesus shown as standing on a chariot in saffron robes like Lord Krishna did in the Mahabharata. This is insulting both Hinduism and Christianity. If Hindus react to all this can they be blamed?

Romeolima

All I can say is when the Raj existed, missionaries created problems. Now we have gone missionaries are still creating problems. I would love to make a programme on the subject but I’m too old to go charging around India. However, I’d love to see an Indian made documentary on the subject.

Radha Rajan

You have a daughter lady? Give that advice to her first and let her loose alone in West End, the crime infested part of London. If she comes back safe after a year, you can lecture to Indian women then.

Jenny Fletcher

This is laughable. Clearly you know nothing about London. I have lived in London full time, for the first 13 years of my life and then for another 5 years between 1995 and 2000. In between those two dates, I had several spells of work where I was either commuting into the city daily or living there during the week and returning to my South Coast home at the weekend. The one place where I was NEVER concerned for my safety was the West End. I wouldn’t call it crime infested at all, not in comparison to many other areas of London. One reason it is safer is that taxi transport is predominantly in London black cabs. They are safe because the passenger is physically divided from the driver and can lock themselves in. Black cab drivers undergo extensive training, getting a black cab license is really difficult, and the cabs themselves are uniquely identifiable with license plates on the inside and outside of the car. There are many places in London where I would be worried about going after dark but they are well outside of the West End shopping, theatre and entertainment area. I wouldn’t consider taking a ‘minicab’ or private taxi in those areas at any time of day. Millions of British women work in the capital 5 or 6 days a week, travel on buses, on trains and on the Underground (where we are protected by CCTV) and largely go unharmed.
And btw, I’m not lecturing to Indian women – it’s the minds of men that harbour thoughts of rape and carry it out. I don’t see any women here and it is plain to see the vicious and hostile atmosphere that would put many women off from posting at all.

Jishnu

The one you replied to is a lady if you can’t make out that much. A well learned one at that. Read her article on this very same website, titled “nirbhayas rapist documentary rubs my nose in the dirt”. Also try searching for viciousness and hostility shown to her in various comments and articles.

Jenny Fletcher

How would I know that without a picture against her ID?

Jishnu

You can simply go to the article I mentioned and read author’s intro. And if you are to talk of Indians, on an Indian website, about crimes against women, its not a big expectation that you know at the very minimum who a woman is and who a man 🙂 Anyways.

Romeolima

I’m not so sure. I’ve had the handle Romeolima for twenty years and it stands for Real Life (RL in the UN alphabet). I used it when the web allowed comments and many people think I’m a man. I’m not. I’m a woman, a widow, a mother, a stepmother and a grandmother so on women’s issues, I’m speaking from the heart as well as trying to be fair.

Jishnu

Come on 🙂 You can have pseudonyms for web comments but not an author profile unless it says author to be anonymous. How can an introduction like “Radha Rajan is a Chennai-based political analyst. She is also author and animal activist.” be pseudonym?

Romeolima

Not everyone clicks on the name. They just reply to the comment.

Shubhangi Raykar

Go and check the situation now when Paki drivers are in a big number.

Jenny Fletcher

I have been totally unfairly vindicated here for ‘racial stereotyping’ of Indian men. I see in many comments and the original article a much deeper and more insidious and unpleasant racial and cultural hatred and stereotyping in Indian society of which the commenter and author should be personally ashamed. There are good people and bad in every racial and cultural group but it is a fact that those on the bad side in every one of those groups wherever in the world they may be are also guilty of perpetuating a cross-racial subculture in which all forms of abuse against women is acceptable and even to be considered a norm.

SumneNeeve

“Slagging off western culture does not in any way justify or lessen the rape and murder of an Indian student. It is merely an attempt to gloss over the appalling attitude of India to its womenfolk.”

“I have been totally unfairly vindicated here for ‘racial stereotyping’ of Indian men.”

Irony. I suppose when you meant “India to its womenfolk”, you meant that Indian segment which does not have a penis between their legs? Because unless you meant that, it is “racial stereotyping’ of Indian men”.

dr.viraj pradhan

Dear Ms.Fletcher.Let’s understand the very important point here.We all were/are enraged when this crime took place.It’s just that there is no preventive that we can think of.Capital punishment ( for the rarest of the rare type of crime such as this)which is prescribed also is termed barbaric by the British.Either way we are bashed.The real issue here is even this does not stop the crime.I with a lot of life behind me( I am nearing 60) will never try to push any crime under the carpet.I know how things have worsened in India over the years.However,(1)this film(2) Debates(3) Creating awareness-campaigns(4)Changing mindsets are not the solutions.People like me who will never rape a woman don’t need this.And those who do will not care about any message that the film conveys.Ms.Udwin said-the entire barrel is rotten.Which mean we all Indian men are being termed rapists.There are women here who have been feminists (and ONE OF THEM a former Attorney General of India-who was naturally very circumspect) have very aptly termed this film a shamelessly commercial venture.Just imagine( forget you are not an Indian and forget your experiences in life) impartially–a man and his lawyers who are fighting for a lesser sentence/inadequate evidence have suddenly and brazenly owning up and trying to implicate others while exculpating himself as well as justifying the brutality let alone the crime–why this turn around?Ms.Udwin said permissions of the criminals are taken–does it imply a lot of cash having been disbursed?Possible,isn’t it?They are basket cases anyway.The judicial delay is frustrating for all-but see the possible reason–keep them on the tenterhooks -that way they suffer more with hopes and despair alternating-and when they get fed up and beg for death,hang them.They were being regularly beaten up in jail by the inmates-possibly with the permission of the police.Nobody tried to justify them.All were very very angry.They were given a choice as many view the film –we will give your family a lot of money which they can use after you are gone,BUT SAY EVERYTHING TERRIBLY PROVOCATIVE.RAISE THE COMMERCIAL POTENTIAL OF MY FILM.This is what irks people.Though unjustified as you rightly pointed out that we should not find faults with what happens in England or elsewhere-there will be this reaction since Guardian talks about Indian rape culture–how many Indian men exist worldwide and how many have raped,is lost to them.One Ms.Libby Purves in The Times writes equally scathing comments in GENERAL.Do you think it does not hurt us.These subhumans DO NOT REPRESENT US,the people foreigners encounter on the streets–the lowlifes who stare at them-DO NOT REPRESENT US.The lowlifes who molest our own girls on trains and elsewhere DO NOT REPRESENT US. And the decent Indians are in majority.

Granted there is a problem which is worsening.But no one knows how to solve and prevent it.We are ourselves frustrated.Just as nobody tells these rascals what to do nobody can tell them what not to do.They will do it anyway.This film in away simply slaps us innocents for the fault of these blokes who are just maybe 10% or less.Although it does not say so.Since last many years India Bashing is happening in various forums.Why?Do they have any remedy?We will gratefully accept it.Compared to the other nations,depending upon the population,our cases stand out that’s all.One more important fact,if you recall one Ram Singh( Mukesh Singh’s brother) had dragged his mother by her hair out of their tenement a couple of times while his bed-bound father looked on helplessly.This never happens in India at all.So these people were PARTICULARLY DEPRAVED.Hanging them will not solve all problems.

There are many expats from various nations living her,probably drive their own cars,and are quite happy.I will not hesitate to invite you to India at all.However,plan it with a group.Israeli youngsters regularly visit India and are happy to advise their compatriots to visit India.Why? Two reasons-They are trained to fight (2) They travel in a group.

Do write if you find any anomalies.But this discussion just goes on and does nothing to change things.Everything is being done by the Govt.but with a massive population that we have police/tourist police are inadequate.With Regards,

prashants5 .

You are right. However, the West has no moral to preach this to India and it’s culture. Because their own backyard is full of filth which is much higher than India. Once you clean that up, then it becomes wise to preach India. The height of hypocisy!

Shubhangi Raykar

The loss is yours if you don’t. Does American Govt protect their tourists from the pedophile American men. In Amerca there is a rape every 2 minutes.

Romeolima

I don’t understand your comment. Are you suggesting that American Paedophiles somehow manage to detach the children of tourists from their families and commit rape on them ? Where did you read this ?

Kanagaraj Easwaran

Excellent article Sri Kalavai Venkat. I am very much convinced with your main proposition that the rape rate is directly related to secularization and weakening of family bonds. I think your proposition need to be tested on a global scale with pooled data from a number of countries all over the world.

Romeolima

Have you seen the film ?

RVenkatanarayanan

Kalavai has written a superb piece–not excusing or sidelining rape incidents in India but highlighting the hypocrisy in works like Udwin’s, widely published by BBC. This racism and hypocrisy of the West will” not stop till Africans and Asians produce written and audio video works on the horrendous afflicting the Western society. This is not wreaking vengeance” but looking at things “western” through Asian/African lens.
Incidentally I am appalled at this Udwin woman saying that “Indian society is one which doers not welcome the girl child”. This is utter rubbish. Also, suppose I say, as an Indian, that Udwin belongs to a society which burns women on the stake and rapes children, how much will she like it. This type of stereotyping by these westerners is supercilious and is a result of inherent superiority complex. How to deal with people like Udwin? I would say keep a tab on them, disallow them from entering India on any ground, freeze their financial assets in India and punish their Indian associates severly under Indian laws.
RVN

Romeolima

You say ” Also, suppose I say, as an Indian, that Udwin belongs to a society which burns women on the stake and rapes children”. Which society is this ? I thought she was from Birmingham in the UK.

Dawkins defended Paedophilia

Er are you now conveniently forgetting your Child Rape scandals, the ones involving your MPs and Intelligence Services? The ones where defenseless children from orphanages were taken for rape and murder? That’s all in the United Kingdom, “Great” Britain. How about Uddin’s colleagues – Jimmy Savile, Stuart Hall, Rolf Harris?

True the burning women on the stake is long gone, but with the amount of times the West brings up Sati – also long gone – I can see why that particular comment included burning women on the stake.

Romeolima

Yet another screen name ! What a busy propagandist you are. When does the West bring up Suttee ? I had forgotten its existance. All the people you mention have been tried, convicted and are in prison except Saville who is dead, stripped of his Knighthood and had his estate taken to make reparations to his victims. Our Laws work. If you haven’t seen this programme, you should. If you have seen it you are lying about its content and that is despicable.

RVenkatanarayanan

Western Christianity and Christians ( that includes the British too) burnt tens of thousands of women on the stake. The Portuguese skinned Hindu men alive in front of their womenfolk in cases where they refused to convert. Firstly that was 100 years back. Today per capita, more western women get raped, more children in the West get sexually abused. But all this does not mean I can or should say that Udwin belongs to such a society. It is therefore I say Udwin was arrogant, offensive, impudent and of course wrong to say that girl children are not welcome in India. She has no business to insult an entire culture, society, civilization. ( Let her say some such thing about British Muslims and she will not be alive for a week thereafter.) Several communities in India rejoice when girl children are born and treat them while growing with great care and tenderness. It is Western habit to stereotype, apply labels with impunity in talking about non-Western societies and people. This must be put an end to.
R.Venkatanarayanan

Romeolima

I am so stunned by the ridiculous allegation of burning at the stake. That was 500 years ago and perpetrated mostly by Catholics against Protestants. During the early years of Oliver Cromwell’s rule a number of women were burned for witchcraft by people who called themselves Puritans. None of this has anything whatsoever to do with 21st century reality or . I recorded this programme the day it was shown in the UK and watched it the following day. In view of all the strange comments from the same people, both in the UK papers and here, I watched it again last night and I can say with certainty that you have not seen it. Only Indian people say that girls are not as welcome as boys, only Indian News Footage of the protests and their brutal suppression is used, only Indian High Court Judges comment on the findings of the Committee on which they sat. Only Indians are interviewed and there is no ‘voice over’ by Leslee Udwin so your accusation that ‘she said’ is totally without foundation. Only one UK Oxford Academic speaks a few words and none of these are controversial. I don’t know where you got your impression of this Programme but it is utterly untrue. You should try to watch it on line. The stereotype of arrogant Westerners is no longer true in the UK at least. The opposite is true and most English people have a hugely romantic idea of India and Indians. We are more likely to believe ourselves guilty of behaving badly in pre Independence India than thinking the Empire perfect.

RVenkatanarayanan

Let us keep our feet to the ground. I have not commented on the film which you admire and have every freedom to. My points were: why do these people from the West concentrate on social and political issues in India, Asia, Africa; why do they stereotype and brand an entire society based on a sample size of one or two terrible incidents, however terrible they may be? why do they not turn their journalistic resources on their own societies? Second: Why this sudden burst of concern in foreign Media for Indian social problems of the day after this lady’s film? Third: Why do people like her not turn the searchlight of their journalistic impulse on issues of Muslim women and girls and produce documentaries and promote them all over the world including in the country where the films are made?
A couple of things more: Romantic Western notions about the East and India died long back. History of writings of Western scholars on India and the East shows it. Take at random 100 pieces of serious writing in the last 50 years including journalism and see how many compliment India and the East for what they have been and are doing and how many highlight only negative things. Udwin’s statement I mentioned in my last posting is all over India Press. She may deny it. Udwin also stated in the Press that the companion of the unfortunate victim of the rape demanded money for being interviewed. May be true. What is wrong in that. Why does she highlight it? Did she not get outside finances for her film and what it entailed during its take and for its promotion. The point I make is not that she must have done the film with her own money. But the point is that she needed money for some thing she wanted to do and the male companion of the woman who went through the horrendous tragedy wanted money to do some thing. The contextualization by Udwin is repugnant to fair play. Being clever she has covered her…. by also saying in the same interview that she was stating the facts only because some one wanted to know why the man was not interviewed. Is it unfair to conclude that Udwin wanted the man to pay a price for not acceding to be interviewed for free?
Your comments on “only Indian” are, to my mind, extreme.
Last, even without yet seeing the great film ( I shall not be surprised if it is bestowed a great award by a Western entity), I am deeply aware of the increasing number of offenses against women and girls in India, I am not the one to engage in casuistry on these happenings and as an Indian living in India i feel deeply hurt that the society is not coming to grips with them but expects government to do the job for them. Each Indian must “do some wholesome thing on the ground” in making things safer and more dignified for women, however small contribution it may be. Simply hectoring and lecturing will not do. Making over-generalized and minatory pronouncements will be counterproductive.
RVN

Romeolima

So many points but I’ll try to answer in the spirit of polite debate.
1) I don’t ‘admire’ the film. I simply commented on its content.
2) The West does carry positive stories about India, Asia and Africa. About prosperity, education, wild life conservation, Art and Culture. Admittedly, these are not generally on the front pages but in the relevant sections.
3) Why do you believe we are stereotyping ? Reporting an incident is just reporting, no more, no less.
4) We do turn our journalistic resources onto our own domestic problems as I’m sure Indian journalists do. However this is within the Home section of our media so maybe you are not seeing it.
5) I think people were shocked by the film and this caused the massive journalistic coverage. The large Hindu and Sikh populations of the UK are so rarely in the News for any negative reason it was a jaw dropping revelation to see Police dispersing protesting students with Tear Gas, Water Cannon and Lathis. Self serving apologist statements from the Defence Lawyers and the accused were to be expected but not official suppression of protest.
6) We do make films about Muslim Women including such subjects such as FGM, Divorce and Forced Marriage.
7) I have no idea what is in the Indian Press and what the Director might have said to journalists. I have only seen the film and can state categorically that all interviewees IN the film, excepting one Oxford Academic who spoke briefly, were Indians, in India, with a knowledge of the case. When I said “only Indians’ I meant ‘no one else other than Indians’ had been interviewed. I did not mean ‘only’ in a derogatory sense.
8) The most popular film in the UK now is “The Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel”. Whether Indians find this version of India offensive, I don’t know but it is intended to be an affectionate portrayal. I can’t think of a totally negative portrayal of India in our Film, TV and Literature output of recent years but we have beaten up on ourselves over our Imperialist past.

RVenkatanarayanan

Romeolima,
I appreciate the spirit behind your response. I think we are standing on different grounds. You seem to me to look at the micro-picture. I tend to look at this episode as well as others like this in a larger context.
Let us look at the broader picture. The “West” has afflicted the East, Africa and South America for decades and centuries, all exclusively for their benefit. Why not the West leave the “Rest” alone for a while and allow the “Rest” to grapple themselves with their issues and problems? Even on the Economic Front what has happened is an overload of huge loans, transplanted and inapplicable knowledge and wisdom that have not worked. Each and every so-called “international welfare reforms” such as UN, SC, WTO, Human Rights, and other assorted Rights crusades have all bent again and again to suit the “West”. Above all, is the cultural denigration and even destruction at the hands of the “West”. I leave faith-traditions and religions out but the fact is that at least 150 indigenous faith systems have been destroyed over the last few centuries. When will the “Rest” get some rest from the “West” which keeps adding to its armory of grounds for intrusion, interference, subversion and worse?
Who highlights a social malaise is as important in the post-imperialist and colonial oppression era, as how it is done. In my understanding of human nature and psychology, it is wrong of a journalist to claim some universal freedom to go wherever he or she wants, meet whoever he or she wants, write whatever he or she thinks is right ( it may be entirely right) and expect the targetted societies to be grateful to the journalist for serving a larger humanitarian purpose. In this particular instance I consider that Udwin has been unnecessarily aggressive in defending herself, passing judgments on Indian society in the public domain and claiming injured innocence. The baby is lost with the bathwater.
Quite aside, I believe, for instance, that the way the “West” is going about again civiliing Muslim societies and Islam, is at the bottom of the escalating trouble for and violence against innocent populace. If anything, violence will become more rampant, mindless and abhorrently virulent. Does History show one case of this civilizing crusade succeeding?
Please do not say that I have shifted the focus or the goal post in our exchange. I think in matters such as the one under discussion the macro-picture is at least as important as the micro-picture.

Romeolima

I’m inclined to agree except when it comes to general issues of health and women’s rights. The World Wide effort to stamp out Polio and other diseases is not a colonial intrusion but some Religious and Political leaders have accused the West of using the programme to sterilise children. This is outrageous. As for women’s rights, no one can stop women all over the World from empathising with other women even if their cultures are dramatically different just as you cannot stop men from competing with each other. Its human nature. All women want the best for their children and when these are the victims of war whether by kidnap, injury or becoming refugees, women will help each other. The problem is that this might be seen as ‘introducing Western Values’. India doesn’t have that problem as far as I know but parts of Africa do and they wrap up their cultural objections with accusations of Cultural Imperialism. Look at Boko Haram whose very name means Western Education is Forbidden. It’s a tightrope that all who wish well in the World must learn to walk.

RVenkatanarayanan

I shall be brief.
“Rights” issues seem to be general but have a huge cultural aspect to them. Intellectuals including writers and journalists in the West must be very careful not to be appearing judgmental of or lecturing to the “Rest” on what is right and wrong. Of course this does not mean the affected categories in respective countries should not raise these issues within their own societies. Even here universalizing “Values” is not a good approach. Diversity must be respected. Don’t we see so much diversity in Nature?
On Polio I agree it is so thoroughly stupid of Afghan and Pakistani Muslims refusing to take the vaccine for their children. But then fundamentalist Muslim mind set is a separate category in itself !
You have used a term “tight rope walking”. Indeed it is. It is a little understood matter how to share thoughts and capabilities, let alone resources, with the East, Africa and South America and still not offend their sensibilities or indigenous Values. Over the decades I have seen Ford Foundation, USAID and the like failing miserably on this front.
I am glad to hear you say that you will personally contribute to a health facility in Jyoti’s village. It is a warming approach. But there is a lot more for Indians in India to understand–be they intellectuals or NGO types or “Rights” activists or even govt. officials–why women in India face aggressive behavior from men, notwithstanding the enormous respect for them that one sees in sacred texts of Hindus. There is a bundle of contemporary reasons but I shall not detain you on them!
Good wishes,

English has wreaked havoc in Indian society while benefiting a fortunate or clever few. But I think thanks to the skewed vision of Jawaharlal Nehru, the first PM of India, a dictatorial democrat, India missed the bus at the time of its Independence. Ham-handedness in laying down a single language for the diverse society of India with very long histories, cultures and literature of their own made things more difficult. Some obsession with the West of Nehru was responsible for English being kept on the throne. Imaginative overhauling of Indian education structure and content and a large dose of finance can still retrieve the situation. If only elected legislators go through the numerous scholarly reports of commissions and committees over the last 60 years! But with so many years having gone by, enthroning any language or languages in place of English is not at all easy.

Nabha Garjana

seems you have serious apathy with the “white man’s burden” Syndrome. This is what you and likes have to understand and get it in your head for good.
your presumption of superiority and ” i am the pinnacle of what is right and righteous ” is a delusion best shunned away soon. British culture is the worst example that a nation could be ( see your past) and no one cares a hoot about what the likes of you think is right or wrong , so stop “Trying” to meddle with things outside your cultural domain. You and your disastrous exploitative culture which only has thrived and been built on the blood sweat and resources of rest of the world acquired through treachery, deceit & man slaughter. if you are so concious about the image of your country , you should being with making efforts to return the artifacts that your exploitative country hosts in its museums which belong to the countries which the benign british “Culture” exploited by treachery deceit and mass murders. so when someone from that culture says we are trying(to do what god knows), that sounds frivolous

Romeolima

You are an irritating little person who twists every comment into an insult while portraying yourself as the white knight , exposing all the Western evils. BTW, nothing is outside my cultural domain. I am endlessly interested in other cultures and religions unlike you who would like to provoke mayhem and bloodshed on Britain’s streets while knowing nothing of our country. I have learned a great deal from my exchanges with RVenkatanarayanan
and others who commented on aspects of ‘Englishness’ in India of which I was unaware. My reply to him contained a link that demonstrated that Western media have begun to realise the harm that this administrative and business based liguistic hangover has done. I have learned absolutely nothing from you except that some Indians are childish, spiteful and professionally aggrieved.

Nabha Garjana

Am sure now you will get overboard when i say ROFL. and please i would treat it as an insult if someone would portray me as a “white Knight” , let aside myself.
the only reason that you get irritated is that i stated the BLUNT facts. i don’t not wish bloodshed on the streets on the UK, i wonder why would i want that , what will i/anyone gain?
As far as knowing nothing about my beloved nation, you should speak for yourself. EVERYTING that is wrong with India today has ITS ROOTS in the BRITISH Invasion through coercions and deceit & man slaughter, thanks to the pseudo intellectuals like yourself who form their opinions based on the hotch potch understanding of be it an article or Veda like max Muller. The only difference now is that the likes of western intelligentsia don’t get your free run with their propaganda.

Romeolima

Utter rubbish. You are a hate filled propagandist with nothing constructive to offer your country that you say you love. I ask questions, you spew outdated polemic.

Nabha Garjana

history has its consequences. those who don’t remember and learn from their history have to have it repeated. Don’t beat around the bush point out the propaganda. Do you call speaking the truth as spewing Hatred?! what are the contributions of the British civilization to the world? zilch!

Romeolima

Yawn………

Nabha Garjana

LOL. keep yawning . typical of intellectually and factually resigned

Romeolima

Bigger Yawn

vlaxmanan

How does an atheist become a practicing orthodox Hindu? Am a bit confused by that. I ask only because, perhaps, this speaks volumes about the assumptions made by the author and the conclusions drawn. Even scientist admitted to committed his biggest blunder since he was guided unconsciously by the religious beliefs held in Judaism and Christianity.

Kanagaraj Easwaran

vlaxmanan in spite having a Hindu name you donot know Hindu philosophy. There are orthodox schools of hindu philosophy which do not have the idea of God.

vlaxmanan

And u know it all? Thanks.

Nabha Garjana

typical high headed attitude ! he pointed out your ignorance and you question his knowledge, rather than your ignorance.

Jersey England

To know more about the English rape culture, and how serious it is, let’s take a look at Jersey, an English island in the Channel that is part of the Crown. It is where Haut de la Garenne, the notorious orphanage/boys hostel where, as part of a rape (of children) investigation, remains of at least a dozen children were found buried. So afraid are the English of what might be found out about the rapes of children at Jersey that they banned an American investigative reporter, Leah Goodman, from going there, for a couple years until public outcry caused the ban to be lifted in 2013, giving the British time to plan ahead to try and obfuscate. And the reason that they will want to obstruct her investigation is clear from a comment she made in the following interview, where she quotes the head of Police of Jersey being told by its Chief Minister, “You don’t understand, this could bring the entire British government down”

Jimmy Savile, by the way, was also photographed at Haut de la Garenne with a bunch of children (google it)

Look here “Only the BBC has an Agenda”. Please stop opening accounts under different names and posting garbage. Unless these past cover ups and atrocities were not being openly investigated, charges laid and reported upon, you would have no facts to distort. Do grow up. A small number of Paedophiles were protected by the Establishment. They aren’t protected any more. A huge number of Asian men raped and sex trafficked thousands of under age white girls and in the interests of ‘Community Cohesion’ it was kept quiet. That is still going on. It pains thinking Europeans to admit that it is our immigrant populations who are causing this rape explosion but it is true. If you have a constructive suggestion as to how we deal with that fact without causing anger and denial as bad as your own within the relevant communities, please enlighten us.

Shubhangi Raykar

Why do you use the misguiding word Asians when 99.99 % were British Muslims of Pakaistani origin?

Romeolima

I used the term deliberately as it was the term originally used by the British Police, the Courts and the Media when the rape grooming stories broke. If it offends you, how much do you think it offends the British to be told they are a nation of rapists ?

Jishnu

The British who characterized India as a nation of snake charmers consistently for decades, the British who at the drop of a hat try creating a horrible picture of India in the name of crime or discrimination or lack of civilization deserve nobody’s concern of their own sense of offense, whether they are called a nation of rapists or genociders or predators.

Romeolima

Oh please. Your sense of offence is at least 80 years out of date. Curry is now the UK’s favorite dish (voted for by white British as well as Asians), MP’s of Indian origin are in senior posts in Government, our NHS would collapse without you and there are many Indian actors who are top of the profession. If you want to descend to dredging up historical slurs spoken by ignorant British bigots, I could find much more recent ones spoken and acted upon by Indians but I choose not to. Please don’t start being permanently affronted by criticism of elements of your country. I don’t like British Lager Louts and Football Hooligans creating mayhem abroad or publicly drunk teenagers in our City centres but if you commented on their appalling behavior I wouldn’t refer to the Thugees to show Indians are just as bad.

Jishnu

No its not out of date. Are you aware of the most recent resolution Brits passed in their parliament regarding Hindu social system? I don’t have “sense of offense”: the offense committed by Brits is a real on ground offense in past and present. “criticism” is not what it is. It is an offense.

Romeolima

No I am not aware of the most recent resolution Brits passed in their parliament regarding Hindu social system and would welcome you informing me. If it is a Resolution and not a Law, I suspect it is something done by the European Parliament as the UK doesn’t have resolutions. I assume it was about the Caste System that Indians are also discussing in depth.

Romeolima

I would genuinely like to know what ‘resolution’ the British Parliament passed that concerns the Hindu social system. I entered it on the House of Commons website and got no results.

I wondered when an Indian would come up with that. Think about it. Many Indian posters have said the ‘British’ have a rape problem. I described the perpetrators as ‘Asian’ as our Police originally did and now you are defining them as “99.99 % were British Muslims of Pakistani origin” In view of that, do you still think the English are a nation of rapists with a rape culture ?

Shubhangi Raykar

I have a correction. Majority of the rapists are Brits. On the second number are the British Muslims of Pakistani origin. Since they also are British citizens it is a British problem. The British rapists are on no 1 in statistics and on No 2 the British Muslims of Paki origin who are conveniently labelled as Asians.I am at present translating two articles on Rotherham scandal in my mother tongue. I can send you the link if you want. But whether the are British or Pakistani or Indian is not the real issue. Exploitation of women is the issue. In India, in Nirbhaya case and in many other cases the uproar is so high that the police have to take action and Indian men also join it. This battle can be won only when men and women are together to fight it.

Romeolima

It’s true they hold British passports. If you still had a huge number of White British living in India and holding your Passports who were grooming, raping and trafficking Indian girls would it pain you if I described them as ‘Indian’ and said you had a rape epidemic ? We all need to work together. I suspect this is a problem with Worldwide common roots in poverty and unemployment. Also, when a culture or Religion says its men are uncontrollable sexually and therefore women must stay at home or only venture out with male family members, that culture is not dealing with the problem. You have to re-educate the males. Females know they can be in danger.

Shubhangi Raykar

I have written a reply to you at length earlier.I disagree with you when you blame it on poverty and unemployment. There would not be so many rapists in England and The US otherwise. And incidentally, I meant British males of British origin are largest number of rapists. Do not use a cover of Asian Muslims. I do think we have to work beyond nationalities and both men and women have to work together to create atmosphere which is free from fear.

Romeolima

I’m not using the term Asian as cover. It was the British Police who did that but I genuinely misunderstood your statement. Do you mean White British males of English origin ? Is there a parallel in India and a particular ethnic group is more likely to rape than another ? The definitions of rape are quite broad in the UK. They are based on consent and reasonable belief of consent so many ‘incidents’ that used not to be thought of as rape are now reported in official figures as rape. I have pasted the official
Police definition (2014)
below…………………………………………………………………………………………
1) What is rape?
A
person commits rape if they intentionally penetrate the vagina, anus or
mouth of another person with their penis without consent.
2) What is sexual assault?
A
person commits sexual assault if they intentionally touch another
person, the touching is sexual and the person does not consent.
3) What is a serious sexual assault?
Assault
by penetration – a person commits assault by penetration if they
intentionally penetrate the vagina or anus of another person with a part
of the body or anything else, without their consent.

I am very slow at writing. Do you think Indiafacts.co.in is a possibility? I will be in touch. The one article is the Marathi translation of Rahul Shastry’s article on Rotherham which I am sending to a Marathi magazine. Ifeel like writing
briefly on the Ramayana and the non rapist culture of India among other cultural markers.

Only the BBC has an Agenda

I wrote this in another thread but it belongs here since we are examining the West’s culture of rape. The key to remember about England is that it always wants to “save face”, and appear to be the “civilized” beacon of the world. Thus the English like to portray themselves as colonial saviors of India, because they can pat themselves on the back and say they did “a good job.” The reality, as we know, involves mass famines throughout English rule, done deliberately due to racist beliefs. Great English “hero’s” like Churchill took part as well. This is their narcissistic tendency that oddly accompanies their past genocidal behavior.

This culture of committing genocides and other heinous crimes, yet ignoring or rationalizing what they are doing so that they can appear to be morally superior, is also seen with regard to rape, where they cover up their own rapes to “save face.” The English are guiltiest of all at this, as I will explain below:

………………..

As you are aware by now, there is documentation of this going on in UK Elite circles for decades. Look at the video of Fortescue
again as an example, since he was around in the 1960s. So this latest half-hearted (as indicated in the article where Danczuk expressed his
belief that Cameron and Clegg are covering it up once more) inquiry is not much of anything, in comparison to the decades of children raped
(and killed), and the long standing suffering of the survivors of the abuse, and the families whose children disappeared. The UK has thus
essentially done nothing against these crimes that were common – yet not public – knowledge.

Now, closer to recent times, we find attempts at placing an Establishment figure to actually chair the investigation –
a clear sign that the English Elite want this covered up. Readers should look up the names of Elizabeth Butler-Sloss and Fiona Woolf. The
former is a sibling of the Attorney General in the 1980’s (establishment) who was accused of covering up “Sir” Peter Hayman, the
Intelligence Chief’s, involvement in child rape. Butler-Sloss had to resign once this was revealed….but then the English Establishment –
who have yet to be punished by their own citizens for this attempt at continuing the cover-up – decided to try again! Up came Fiona Woolf,
who is utterly, utterly, a part of the Elite Anglo-Saxon Establishment. She is Lord Mayor of London and, most importantly, was close friends
with Leon Brittan, primary accused in the child rape depravities. So twice have the Elite Anglo-Saxons, of whom the BBC Editors hobnob with,
tried to cover-up this decades long child rape and murder habit.

Finally, when they realized it was going to be too much, they’ve allowed for a New Zealander to head the inquiry. The problem, however, is
contained in the Amnesty International link, which shows that the MI5/MI6 are going to be off limits. This shows that the English are not
truly interested in justice, because otherwise they would look into the behavior of their own intelligence officers in Kincora, which for those
who don’t know, was a boarding school in Northern Ireland that was frequented by child rapists, and that – per Amnesty International – “UK
security services used vulnerable boys as nothing more than sexual bait in a blackmail trap”. The English do not want the depraved nature of
its elite to be punished, therefore Kincora is off the list and other documentation is being met with inertia, as mentioned in the link outlining Dunzcak’s comments.

Romeolima

This, as you know, is all distortions and lies. The most thorough investigations are taking place as to how these offences were covered up over 30 years ago and your attempt to stir up anti British feeling won’t work. What is your agenda ?

Nabha Garjana

well the problem with western so called intelligentsia is that the cant differentiate cultures and boundaries outside their own. when you say Asian , do yo mean Indian ? beside the rape and broken family percentages say it all who stands where.the issue is of stereotyping a society based on the view of a CONVICTED RAPIST. its like saying that the thoughts of a convicted Dale Bolinger (cannibalism) would mean that all British People like sadistic cannibalistic pleasure of killing and eating teenage girls.

Romeolima

Have you seen the film ? The documentary doesn’t draw any parallels with ALL Indian society. That is Faux Outrage being propagated by people with an agenda.

Nabha Garjana

is that why the director called the “Indian society ” sick? you need to stop digressing

Romeolima

The director does not speak in the film. Except for a brief appearance from one Oxford Academic, ALL the people in the film are Indian.

Nabha Garjana

so the rapist who raped and ate the teenage girls was British! As i said stop beating around the bush.

Romeolima

What Cannibal, Rapist who ate teenage girls was this ? Do give a link to your source.

Nabha Garjana

Read my comments , do you read what you are responding to are you are having predefined convictions ?

Romeolima

I can’t read your comments as you account is private unlike mine where you can click on my name and read my comment history. I genuinely want to know and I can’t trawl through hundreds of comments by other people to find this one.

Nabha Garjana

” its like saying that the thoughts of a convicted Dale Bolinger
(cannibalism) would mean that all British People like sadistic
cannibalistic pleasure of killing and eating teenage girls.”

Romeolima

I finally found your reference to Dale Bolinger. He did not rape and eat teenage girls. He PLANNED to Rape, Murder and Eat teenage girls. However he was arrested before he could carry out his plan, convicted and is serving a jail sentence. It is ridiculous to mention him at all. His abberation is not part of a cultural norm. A lot of Indian men agree that a girl who is out in the evening with a male friend is ‘asking for trouble’. Your exaggerations cannot be allowed to pass in case anyone who reads this site believes you.

Nabha Garjana

ROFL are you for real! what i did i called an Analogy. if a British man has a fetish of eating and raping Girls should it give the international media a platform to brand British people on the view/actions of your beloved compatriot. I am not sure who DO You THINK you are to not let something pass! A lot of British women/men think that its a act of pride to loose virginity on the college prom and make efforts to sleep with some Hunk/chick as a one night stand. so please stop taking A STUPID moral high ground which you DO NO deserve.

Romeolima

There is no debating with you. Talking of ‘Proms’ you mean America and your description of your illustration as an ‘analogy’ is etymologically just plain wrong. Further, how you can use expressions like “Rolling on the Floor Laughing” when discussing rape shows your facile and dismissive attitude to this serious subject. I will not be answering any more of your ridiculous comments.

Nabha Garjana

i though that i wouldn’t have to point out the hypocrisy. are you saying that prom as a concept originated in America so has nothing to do with UK? your issues with usage of ROLF and LOL does not change anything. I know my loci standing & what i am here for . you can keep live with your worldview no one will have issues with that, as the same time you CANT be the moral authority of telling what is right and what is wrong as you don’t like someone tell you the same. So NEXT time in your life mind the same.

dr.viraj pradhan

Guardian had talked about India’s rape culture.This is a gross generalization.As the saying goes:-for the faults of many judge not the whole.Ms.Libby Purves writes about The Hyena-like attitude of Indian men.She does not say some Indian men.Is this fair? If it is how?There is no logical comparison between the total number of Indian men world over or even in India and those who are committing this heinous act.

Romeolima

I agree. It is never fair to generalise and it cheapens the point.

dr.viraj pradhan

Thanks very much indeed,Romeolima for your comment.

Nabha Garjana

LOL outrage propagated by people with an Agenda. and may i know what could that be in your elite viewpoint? demolishing a false worldview of India being built in the western media based on a Stupid Documentary with an Agenda ? just make your point clear are you defending the documentary which gives way and locus standing to western media to depict India and its culture in bad light ? this is the point of contention , nothing else.

Romeolima

Really ! Even using the internet abbreviation LOL (Laughing out Loud) shows your utter contempt for the seriousness of this debate. You look like another screen identity of the ubiquitous ‘Only the BBC has an Agenda’. The Documentary is about the rape and murder of one young woman and those who perpetrated it, those who defended them, those who investigated the crime and its effect on all the families. If it had an Agenda beyond that it was to highlight the unwritten rules that still exist in Male v Female freedoms in 21st Century India. I will comment on the incident and the film as a woman but not about India’s Laws, Courts and Police as I haven’t the background knowledge to make an informed judgement. You cannot have seen this film to make the comments you have made.

Jishnu

BBC has been complicit in all kinds of coverups in west and all kinds of mudslinging on India especially Hindus, be it under the pretext of crime or against spiritual leaders under various pretexts. It never did any investigation or apologized for its lies and calumny. Another case in point: Late Satya Sai Baba.

vlaxmanan

Thanks for this piece. I will certainly cite this article in the book that I have started putting together entitled, “Understanding Rape Statistics” where I have tried to provide a mathematical analysis about what the widely used rape rate R = y/x means with y being the number of rapes and x the population. Two initial articles describing my findings are posted on my Facebook page, under “International Women’s Day Facebook Group”. I read this article with interest but am also left with a bad taste. This is what I call a lose-lose proposition. Nobody comes out ahead with such finger pointing and name calling at each other. There are problems with the Western societies. The examples you have pointed out are excellent. I also read recently that just riding in a London taxi cab is risking rape. That’s how bad things are. Muslims are being prominently mentioned here with regard to UK rapes. Another study, by Gatestone Institute also points the finger at (recent immigrant) Muslims for the high rape rates in Sweden. But, let the West address its problems. There are problems with Indian society too. Let us address them. Even the rape of a single woman is to be deplored. It is NOT a matter of comparing rape rates or divorce rates. The more I think about it now, a blog by Bhavani Krishna Iyer that I have shared on my Facebook page makes some excellent points about the India’s Daughter documentary. Indian society has to address concerns such as those raised by her. And, we should be outraged at what the lawyers of the convicted rapists are saying. Again, I applaud the very good points raised here. But mutual name calling is NOT the answer. India must address its problems. Even as we discuss this an elderly 71 year old nun was gang raped in Kolkatta.

Kalavai Venkat

You are incorrectly claiming that my article is “finger pointing and name calling at each other.” Just read the open line again. This article is about the widespread problem of rape in the West and about making the West safe for women. By and large, westerners have been in denial abouut this problem and have done little about it. I am an Indian-American so I care as much about western victims of rape as much as I do for the Indian victims of rape. In fact, I will speak up for rape victims no matter where they belong. I agree with you that “(e)ven the rape of a single woman is to be deplored.” That is what I have wrote years ago: http://indiawires.com/17375/news/national/reclaiming-the-sacred-feminine-in-the-aftermath-of-delhi-gang-rape/ .

However, if you’re outraged by the rape of a single woman, you should be outraged even more by the widespread rape of millions of women in the West. If you’re really “outraged at what the lawyers of the convicted rapists (of Nirbhaya) are saying,” you should be outraged even more by the documentary India’s Daughter. Both the lawyers and the documentary blame the rape on anyone but the rapists as I explain here: http://indiafacts.co.in/indias-daughter-and-richard-dawkins-racism/ . In other words, both the documentary and the rapists’ lawyers are rationalizing rape and the rapists’behavior. In that these people are like the millions of westerners who blame the victim of rape. If you express any sympathy for the propagandist documentary India’s Daughter it can only mean that you’re sympathizing with the rapists as the maker of the documentary did. Please don’t forget that the maker of the documentary also gleefully danced and partied with the serial child rapist Jimmy Saville: tinyurl.com/nj695ss. It is no wonder that she rationalized the behavior of Nirbhaya’s rapists.

Don’t you think Leslie Udwin is fit to be condemned? Or, do you think that brown people should only act as sepys for the whites and refuse to condemn evn those who dance with rapists? Do you care about the victims of rape who happen to be westerners? If so, why would oppose an article about the phenomenon of rape in the West?

vlaxmanan

You are way off base and being too defensive.

I am also a naturalized American citizen now and I am equally concerned about rape wherever it occurs. But, you cannot deny that you have mainly been trying to show the Western culture is NOT immune to rape. I don’t deny that and I agree with and applaud you for the examples you have cited and said so, if you read my first comment carefully. However, it does NOT do Indians any good to deny that what happened in Delhi, and what happened just a couple of days ago in Kolkatta. BOTH were WRONG. That was my point.

Saying somebody else is a fool does not make me wise. Anyway, here’s an extract from your comment that needs to be addressed. My response is in caps.

However, if you’re outraged by the rape of a single woman, you should be
outraged even more by the widespread rape of millions of women in the
West. (YES I AM) If you’re really “outraged at what the lawyers of the convicted
rapists (of Nirbhaya) are saying,” you should be outraged even more by
the documentary India’s Daughter. (YES I AM, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I AM NOT?) Both the lawyers and the documentary
blame the rape on anyone but the rapists as I explain here: http://indiafacts.co.in/indias… (YES AND I MENTIONED THAT TOO). In other words, both the documentary and the rapists’ lawyers are
rationalizing rape and the rapists’behavior. (HERE YOU ARE NOT MAKING SENSE. THIS IS A PROBLEM WITH INDIAN PEOPLE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WESTERN CULTURE, SO PLEASE KEEP YOUR FOCUS WHERE IT SHOULD BE.) In that these people are
like the millions of westerners who blame the victim of rape. (I REALLY DON’T CARE WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE THINKS ABOUT. WHAT MATTERS TO ME IS INDIA SAFE AND ARE WE GOING TO MAKE IT SAFER? I THINK YOU ARE MISSING THAT IN YOUR ZEAL AT MAKING COUNTERPOINTS ABOUT WESTERN RAPE CULTURE.) If you
express any sympathy for the propagandist documentary India’s Daughter
(I NEVER DID) it can only mean that you’re sympathizing with the rapists as the maker
of the documentary did. (WRONG ASSUMPTION MADE BY YOU.) Please don’t forget that the maker of the
documentary also gleefully danced and partied with the serial child
rapist Jimmy Saville (THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS FINGER POINTING).

We cannot derive joy from the faults of others. Since you are so concerned about Indian culture, let me conclude by re-emphasizing that Indians must dedicate themselves to making India safer for women. After the 2012 Delhi gang rape and the raping of foreign tourists in Delhi shortly after, I felt saddened by what was going on. I had NOT paid much attention to the rape rates and the statistics that I am now studying, mainly because of India’s Daughter documentary. in fact, in my Facebook posts on rape rates in different countries, I have tried to show that India has a low rape rate compared to the Western countries – you can read them if you wish. But the low rape rate in India is still NOT any reason for joy and saying there is a rape culture in the West is pure politicking. I have NO interest in such matters. I am only saddened by the fact that one woman was brutally raped, gang raped and she died as a result of the injuries she suffered DURING THAT ATTACK. Both the rapist himself and his lawyers are defending it and it reflects more on India not on the West. Try to reflect on these issues as well, dear Venkat.

We have to focus on BETTERING OURSELVES not find joy in the faults of others. That is what I learned from studying the Bhagavad Gita. There are evil forces in this world, all over. But, our purpose here is to better ourselves… and reach… you know.. that’s a different topic altogether. Thanks for taking the time to write a response. And I hope, somewhere here, I have got the main point across.

Jishnu

“YES I AM, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I AM NOT?”

Because there is NO such outrage visible in the west or western media or India or Indian media about the west. In contrast there is disproportionate “outrage” in the immoral Indian media and western media, mudslinging in the name of outrage. Its a simple straight data point.So don’t assume that just because you think you don’t like crime in the west it amounts to outrage. It does not.

“Talking about rape culture in the west does not interest me.”

So when it does not interest you, is this the topic for you to comment? This pretentious ostrich mentality prevents you from seeing how rape is rising in India *because of* its casual nature in the west and western influence, and makes you give an empty slogan of bettering ourselves. We cannot better outselves by looking up to the worse.

Kalavai Venkat

That is a superb reply. Sadly, a section of Indians suffer from ostrich mentality coupled with cowardice which prevents them from examining the West.

vlaxmanan

Sad really, if you feel it was a superb reply/ 🙁 Tells me more where you are coming from. I tried to refrain from attacking your main point about feminism but jishnu got me to address it. Grow up young man. You cannot set the clock back on feminism as much as you cannot set the clock back on many other technological advances made since women did not see the light of the day and were living in harems and “antahpurams”. Examine yourself first. To hell with the west and what the west does to hide its rape culture. It has no relevance to the problems of India. Just ask the women who are getting raped in India

Kanagaraj Easwaran

Unless we can compare the rape rates across the cultures we cannot understand the cultural causes of rape. Your approach is methodologically naive. Rape is a global problem.

vlaxmanan

I have done tons of work in the last two weeks on this topic. If it is of interest do check out my ongoing analysis of rape rates worldwide and more also on the rape rates reported in all the 50 US states. Two detailed articles are uploaded on my Facebook page and one more is ready for uploading in the next couple of days. If everyone hear learns to be more civil, we can have a meaningful discussion. Unfortunately, the author is being unnecessarily provocative as is one other poster. Too immatyure and juvenile for someone who obvious has accumulated a lot of facts. They need to tone their name calling down. Sometimes I get carried away too but try my best to avoid. This will be my last visit to this blog.

Jenny Fletcher

Excuse me, of course you can understand the cultural cause of rape. It is passed from father to son in all societies and all cultures and reinforced by many factors, not least the pornography industry. The attitude maintained is that any man has the right to any woman he wants and women are not allowed to say no. The cultural cause is men themselves and the fairy stories they tell each new generation about what to expect of women and what their ‘rights’ over women consist of.

Jishnu

That “attitude maintained” is not a cultural cause but caused by lack of culture. That man/woman is bound by family & community only extrinsically and that fidelity is more intrinsic to character and that character is what society invests in, is called a cultural cause and that is what acts as self-regulation against crime, be it of any kind.

Jenny Fletcher

Pathetic gobbledegook. There IS a culture – using the word to represent a common way of thinking – amongst men of all races and backgrounds which despises women and regards them as playthings and sex objects. A woman who says no to unwanted attention from such a person is molested anyway. That culture regrettably exists in all social and faith communities but appears to be worse in some compared to others.

Jishnu

“Common way of thinking” is not culture, it is because of a trait inherent in nature – human and animal. Culture is NOT that. Culture is what refines human conduct and thinking to live more civilized. Which means the “attitude” you refer to is not a result of but a failure of culture. Get to know some basics first 🙂

Kalavai Venkat

I reject with your immoral stance, “To hell with the west and what the west does to hide its rape culture.” Only cowards and persons without a moral compass or the slightest empathy will take such stance. A decent human being will not turn a blind eye to the rape of millions of western women and children. I wonder whether you display the same mindset as the Muslim rapists in Rotherham who disregard western women as humans worthy of respect and empathy.

vlaxmanan

There is nothing immoral about my stance. Your replies show how ignorant you are. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

vlaxmanan

“YES I AM, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I AM NOT?”

Because there is NO such outrage visible in the west or western media or India or Indian
media about the west. In contrast there is disproportionate “outrage” in
the immoral Indian media and western media, mudslinging in the name of
outrage. Its a simple straight data point.So don’t assume that just
because you think you don’t like crime in the west it amounts to
outrage. It does not.

That is NOT my problem if there is NO outrage in the west or if Indian media is hypocritical in its coverage. You arre wrongly accusing me and descended to name calling. which is obvious from what you state below about my OSTRICH mentality..

“Talking about rape culture in the west does not interest me.”

So when it does not interest you, is this the topic for you to comment? This pretentious ostrich mentality prevents you from seeing how rape is rising in India *because of* its casual nature in the west and western
influence, and makes you give an empty slogan of bettering ourselves. We cannot better outselves by looking up to the worse.

There is NO PRETENSE OR sloganeering on my part. Those are your assumptions. You and the author seem to have a HIGH MORAL ATTITUDE not me about feminism as the cause of rising rapes in India since it leaves women unprotected. This is NO DIFFERENT from what the rapist said i the interview and what the rapist’s lawyers have been saying about putting WOMEN IN THEIR PLACE. You do not sound as crude but you and the author are saying the same thing. Women belong in the home and in the kitchen and must be protected. Feminism is NOT going to disappear. So, get off your high horse, get real, and stop the name calling.

Some day you will understand what I mean by striving to better ourselves. You are much too young, I am sure, to have any inclination to do it.

Jishnu

“That is NOT my problem if there is NO outrage in the west or if Indian media is hypocritical in its coverage. ”

This claim of yours goes right against your previous claim – “YES I AM, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I AM NOT?”

Either it IS your problem and you talk about it, or it is NOT and you don’t talk of it. Given you are so random and inconsistent and call me too young, sorry but you sound senile, dear uncle 🙂

“You and the author seem to have a HIGH MORAL ATTITUDE not me about feminism as the cause of rising rapes in India since it leaves women unprotected. ”

Neither the author nor I said feminism is a cause of rise in crime. Rising influence of west means breaking up of family as an institution, social self-regulation, rising immorality, overdependence and undue control of state over the society, destruction of collectivities and society’s ability to resist crime and more importantly criminal mentality, and a lot more.

“you should blame others for your own ills.(I means the west for the ills of the east).”

What exactly is the causation you presented to say they are ills of the east? Protection of children, women, old and learned men is part of Hindu ethos and Hindu thinking rulers give importance to it. If they are vulnerable it is obvious that this is no more a value practiced, and that in turn is too obviously because of a westernized state and society. So west here is not blamed in spite of its being the cause of your ills.

vlaxmanan

Neither the author nor I said feminism is a cause of rise in crime.
Rising influence of west means breaking up of family as an institution,
social self-regulation, rising immorality, overdependence and undue
control of state over the society, destruction of collectivities and
society’s ability to resist crime and more importantly criminal
mentality, and a lot more.

Really? Did you read the article? Do you understand the correlation drawn with divorce rates and rape rates and discussion there by the author.

Jishnu

Did YOU read what I wrote, and comprehend it? Repeating it here:

“Rising influence of west means breaking up of family as an institution,
social self-regulation, rising immorality, overdependence and undue
control of state over the society, destruction of collectivities and
society’s ability to resist crime and more importantly criminal
mentality, and a lot more.”

Now is feminism a PART of it or an exclusive cause as per this?

vlaxmanan

Yes, I may be lot older than your uncle, jishnu. So, you mock your uncles?

Jishnu

Well my uncles don’t use age as substitute for validity of arguments, so I definitely don’t mock them. Your self-contradiction combined with pretense of knowledge deserves mockery and its not my fault.

vlaxmanan

Something tells me that Leslee Udwin is a Brit of Indian origin. Has anyone researched that?

BTW, there are articles where the high rape rates in Western countries are discussed and I have read at least one article that decries the fact that a rape in Delhi gets coverage while rapes in Berlin or other US cities are hardly news. I suspect the reason is more than “drama” and the “brutality” and other cultural factors (caste and/or religion in particular) associated with the “gang rapes” in India.

Please do not overlook the fact that I have undertake a very serious study of rape statistics – and I am focusing entirely on the rape data for the US at the states and the county levels – to avoid any systematic problems due to under-reporting of the rape crimes. In fact, as discussed in Part II of the articles posted on my Facebook page, I have shown that the overall conclusions drawn do not change EVEN AFTER THE DEFINITION OF RAPE WAS CHANGED IN 2013, IN THE US. The FBI now only reports rapes based on the new definition (the word “forcible” was dropped in the definition). The rape counts went up but the general conclusions did not change.

And, like on an individual level, we all have to focus on bettering ourselves. 🙂

Jenny Fletcher

Kindly remember that every ‘rape statistic’ represents a woman or a girl who has had her most intimate rights violated and is not properly supported by the police force or the Government of her country. There are millions of ‘statistics’ that go unreported every year because the victim believes that she will either not be believed or will be stigmatised for something that was not her fault. I was raped many years ago by someone I knew slightly and had previously publicly rebuffed for his approaches. He committed that crime because he rightly thought that the shame and circumstances of the attack would prevent me reporting it. I wonder where he is now, how many other women he raped and whether he ultimately got away with all the attacks because I don’t doubt he would have done it again.

Kalavai Venkat

Jenny Fletcher, your experience as a rape victim makes me sad. My heart goes out to you. I hope you have regained inner strength. I feel as much for the other women that criminal probably raped.

Shubhangi Raykar

Were they not violated by Udwin by making the girl’s name public? Paid interviews of the perpetrator and the lawyers are now taken as representative of normal Indian men.That is unfair to millions of them who are courteous and decent to women. I feel angry about creating this generalization about men which include my father, husband, brother, son and several others who have lived a life of decent householders.

Jenny Fletcher

Not in any way, even if it was her that made the girl’s name public which it emphatically was not. When the incident reached the UK press, it was already a murder enquiry and her name was published then. I can’t speak for the first journalist to publish the story or where he or she got the information about the girl’s name. Hiding the victim’s name is all part of the ‘blame and shame’ that prevents many rape victims ever reporting the crime not just in India but worldwide. I have no doubt whatever, that had that girl not died of her appalling injuries, that crime too might have gone unreported.

You state “Even as we discuss this an elderly 71 year old nun was gang raped in Kolkatta.” And 8 people have been arrested which is a testament to the action of the Police.

vlaxmanan

That’s good news. Yes, the reaction in India to sensational rape crimes is something to be proud of.Now let them be convicted speedily if guilt is proved. Until then, like the rapist sitting in jail and moraiizing nothing has been accomplished. Pointing out the ills of west to gloss over the ills of the east is what I find objectionable.

Romeolima

Me too.

suru

Good article and a well researched one. Kudos to Venkat.
I don’t understand as to why the big brains that supported the doc on Nirbhaya , didn’t wait to know full details. What is their reply now after reading Venkat’s article? Will they come forward to air these details mentioned here in BBC and in our Indian media NDTV etc??
Why don’t these people say UK ,Sweden etc are rape countries with these authentic details? will they have courage?