So have at it. There are some people here who like one over the other while there are some that not only like both but the melding of the two. When we started this site I had it in mind to try to bring together the two scenes as I've known Metal guys who have gotten into Electronic even though they never expected to like it and Electronic fans who have come to embrace Metal. I thought it would potentially create a massive new scene that would cater to all underground tastes and bring more acts to the TC. And yet, it just never happened. The Metal scene has continued to grow in strength while the Electronic scene still languishes in its lame and obstinate obscurity.

-electronic music is dominated by the horrible "D" word -The vast majority of people who like to "D"ance are really not as interested in the musician aspect of the music, because if they were, they wouldn't pay to go see some DJ with some chick who has a prettier face and a shorter skirt than she has vocal talents and some guy in the back that the DJ hired to play some pads and calling it "drumming"-metal is based on the foundation that it actually takes some skill to play it and is something you can watch, whereas electronic music is more of a "push the play button on your laptop and expect the audience to believe that I am playing this"-metal has a closer knit community based on the "us v.s. them" concept-try to foster that attitude in the electronic community, you end up with an internally hostile situation like the noise scene-metal is based on the group concept, giving the audience a "team" of sorts to root for -electronic music is filled with a bunch of highly egotistical solo artists with no interest in sharing the glory with their band mates -as a result, you get solo artists who are highly protective of their "concept" to the point of paranoia and jealousy, thus refusing to interact with any other musician that might threaten their central status as band leader

But the whole thing boils down to this (for me, at least)Metal is interesting to watchDance music is notWhy pay to see something a DJ can do?

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!

Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:16 pm

skywayman

Joined: Fri Nov 20, 1981 7:00 pmPosts: 1377Location: Minneapolis

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

That was quick.

Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:20 pm

devil

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:00 pmPosts: 5056

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

That's the biggest difference between people who appreciate Metal and people who like Electronic. People who are into Electronic have no personality, can't articulate their taste and as a result lock the acts they allegedly "appreciate" into perpetual obscurity. There are actually Electronic artists who complain that their fans aren't as supportive as they would have expected. Well, duh. Look who we're talking about here.

Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:18 pm

rskm1

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 7:00 pmPosts: 4914Location: S St Paul

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

"Electronic" isn't a musical style, it's an equipment description.

It would be more apt to compare/contrast "Electronic" with "Guitar".How would you characterize the fanbase of "Guitar"? (Not so easy, is it!)

All of the variants of "Metal" (black, death, heavy, hair, etc) have some pretty common elements that even outsiders can recognize.But using "Electronic" to describe a genre is wayyyy too general. Gabber and Ambient are both generally "Electronic", but bear little similarity to each other beyond the equipment used to produce it.

As for myself, I hate most metal -- but I really like some of it, generally when it's incorporated into a "hybrid" genre. Pitchshifter, Fear Factory, KMFDM/mdfmk, Rammstein, etc spring to mind first. On the electronic side, I'm a huge fan of most industrial, electro, EBM, synthpop, breakbeat, etc, but hate a lot of electronic subgenres too.

Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:39 pm

zom-zom

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pmPosts: 3269

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

The current state of "electronic" from what I've seen and heard is monstrously boring. I've seen several acts that consist of usually a couple of guys sitting at a table turning knobs on their sound generating toys. Just sitting there, staring at there Behringer mixers and Boss pedals while they "manipulate" the shit. It seems to be either that sort of snooze-fest or some guy trying to be either scary or moody playing some synth along to recorded tracks while people dance around.

Metal at least has the possibility of being entertaining. And usually, it is though sometimes unintentionally so. My taste in Metal leans toward the melodic side and I hold up Black Sabbath as the role model. I don't follow it much anymore but there are much cooler things about it in general than button-pushing.

Of course I've seen Kraftwerk. Don't be silly, I'm old and purchased Autobahn when it was released.

They're the masters and in a class of their own. They built their own gear, write memorable tunes and have robots on stage.

You're just being goofy.

Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:32 am

Long Pig

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 10:54 amPosts: 1273Location: Minne-Hopeless

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

Easily the most one-sided debate I have ever encountered. Granted, I'm in full agreement with 90% of what's been said so I am on the only side of the issue. Having funded/written-for/performed-in an "electronic" band I feel I should add that it would not have existed if I could not have infused metal influences into it whenever possible. (PCP's "Bondage Song" melody was a riff I stole from a Living Sacrifice tune, "Satanis" was a programmed blast beat in excess of 165 BPM, etc.).

_________________I've shed the baggage of years in hell. Now, I breathe. I am home.

Evidently, your advanced age has caused you not to be able to differentiate between an "insult" (actually intended to offend the feelings of the target) and a "burn" (a playful chops busting comment intended to insinuate a bit of testosterone laden cameraderie)For instance

Zom, you're so old that you were there when the Autobahn was built!

Fisty, you're such a fucking pathetic sheep-like moron that your masters could feed you any nonsensical paranoid rhetoric and you would swallow it like a hooker giving a $50 blowjob

Can you guess which one is intended to be insulting?

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
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Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:53 pm

zom-zom

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pmPosts: 3269

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

I guess.. but I was under the assumption that it was supposed to be "funny". Oh well.

You know.. sometimes stuff doesn't translate so well on message boards. Maybe I was being too defensive and sorry if I was. I like jokes and shit.

Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:06 pm

thosquanta

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pmPosts: 3442Location: minneapolis

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

zom-zom wrote:

I like jokes and shit.

this statement seems to contradict what you've posted on "fetish event" topic threads, but ok.

Why all the hate on electronic musicians???!*Electronic musicians have no personality?>*People into dance music have no interest in in the musician aspect of the music?>*electronic music is filled with a bunch of highly egotistical solo artists?>*All of the variants of "Metal" (black, death, heavy, hair, etc) have some pretty common elements that even outsiders can recognize?>

Yo? That's cool you guys don't like electronic music but these opinions are messed up.The ego thing isn't just "electronic" musicians. I know you guys are musicians too and how many bands have you guys been in without any ego? We (electronic musicians) hate ego as much as everyone else. BS"We" have no personality??? Come on, retarded. I wont even respond to this. BS We ARE musicians! We make music too. Please, listen to "written" electronic music! Believe me, it frustrated me just as much when I see some fool holding down one key, triggering an arp pattern and sitting there, acting like a GOD. I want to drop kick them in the face but its really no different than some person strumming the same chord constantly when you look at the big picture.

From my point of view, its really hard to mix both styles balanced so mostly the ones who try fail,in this scene especially. It sounds really cool when it works though.

I am an electronic music purist. Listen, we work just as hard as "band" music. I would even go as far as to say some work harder because they can and sometimes have to it all themselves. (bass, lead, pad, perc, you name it). Personally, I like to partnership when creating electronic music.

I can tell you that electronic software is easily stolen so its the easiest way for a rookie musician to dabble into music without losing their shorts. This creates a problem in itself as there is little investment and tend to clog up the tubes with utter shiat. This is okay, if they are committed, they will make some good stuff in time. Maybe this is why ya'll hate electronic music. I have faith in these newbs. We have all been there.

Now, with a band, they have to actually buy physical instruments and invest time to synchronize schedules. hook up and get all the melodies and what have you with a number of band mates. Its probably more rewarding, I wouldn't know. In the end, its a tune.

Overall, it's a tie. Don't kid yourself.

Haters.You guys are the Simon Cowell of the scene. (my BS opinion)

Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:45 pm

zom-zom

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pmPosts: 3269

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

"Live" electronic music is quite dull to watch, I don't think there's much of an argument to that. It's not like the keyboardist is the "action" guy in a rock band, unless maybe it's Keith Emerson ca. 1973.

Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:43 am

2fisted

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:00 pmPosts: 3375Location: ATBOG

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

Are the Trapazoids considered Electronic?

I donno, I'd have to say that there is no winner & no loser. All sound is equal & does somthing to contribute to the betterment of society. The metal/electric is obviously an issue that has plagued the scene for centuries, but the sounds we seek would bring greater competition, choice, and inefficiencies to our musical tastes.

*People into dance music have no interest in in the musician aspect of the music?

How do I know this?Because I have observed dance oriented venues and their patrons for 20 years now and have seen their lack of enthusiasm for "LIVE" music

polter wrote:

*electronic music is filled with a bunch of highly egotistical solo artists?

How can I say this?Because for nearly a decade, I have been trying to collaborate with electronic artists and none seem interested in any kind of compromise whatsoever They have had complete control over their material which they have written all by themselves on their computers which means that they are more interested in working with strippers and dummy drummers than a musician that would challenge their vision

polter wrote:

We ARE musicians! We make music too. Please, listen to "written" electronic music! Believe me, it frustrated me just as much when I see some fool holding down one key, triggering an arp pattern and sitting there, acting like a GOD. I want to drop kick them in the face but its really no different than some person strumming the same chord constantly when you look at the big picture.

You are missing the point of this oneLemme refresh you on the point of conversation here

Devil wrote:

The Metal scene has continued to grow in strength while the Electronic scene still languishes in its lame and obstinate obscurity. Why?

You actually come close to the point here but never follow through

polter wrote:

From my point of view, its really hard to mix both styles balanced so mostly the ones who try fail, in this scene especially. It sounds really cool when it works though.

Again, I will point out that I have been trying to do this for quite a while now and electronic/rock musicians I encounter either end up sounding like -NIN/Ministry-Gravity Kills/Filter-The dance bands I hear at GZ that sound like a 15 minute long song but turn out to be 3 different bandsNone of the above are of any interest to meGuess what happens when I do find someone that thinks outside those parameters?

Rockula! wrote:

They have had complete control over their material which they have written all by themselves on their computers which means that they are more interested in working with strippers and dummy drummers than a musician that would challenge their vision

polter wrote:

Maybe this is why ya'll hate electronic music.

I will exclude myself from this statement because my show is 80% electronic (and I have the best drummer in this town)You spend the rest of your post fumbling around the edges of the true intent of this thread which is

Devil wrote:

The Metal scene has continued to grow in strength while the Electronic scene still languishes in its lame and obstinate obscurity. Why?

I think we answered that question and i have heard no convincing arguments coming from you

Lastly

polter wrote:

Haters.You guys are the Simon Cowell of the scene. (my BS opinion)

Thanks, although it is a lame comparisonHave you seen the list of that guy's accomplishments?I wish I could have done half the things he has done with his life

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
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Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:50 pm

claymation

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:50 amPosts: 245

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

I'm not a metal fan. I like some Slayer every now and then. I like to dance. I am enthusiastic at shows. I have heard of many bands that say that Minnesota audiences seem very tame and don't make much noise between songs, so I think the electronic issues are quite localized. I've been into the scene since I saw Nitzer Ebb open for Depeche Mode in 1990 in Phoenix.

In the US, the metal scene totally rules, no arguement. I defy you to go to Europe and say the same thing. This thread is pointless here. Wish I could afford to travel more. I'm not a musician, but I know some local artists (Zom-is that Rumgumption you tend to speak of? Hope so, cause they are awesome)!

Watching somebody shred on guitar doesn't intrest me much. I care more for song craft and production quality.

Some bands I enjoy live really are impressive electronic musicians. For example, Meat Beat Manifesto and cEvin Key's Download and pLateau projects are great examples of on-stage electronic perfomances.

It seems that the majority of commentators on this thread have a limited scope and narrow perspective of the world of music in general (especially the thread instigator)! If you like metal, fine! But don't try forcing it down all our throats or you'll find yourself throatless!

Watching somebody shred on guitar doesn't intrest me much. I care more for song craft and production quality.

Your cursory appraisal of metal shows that you haven't listened to much of it, or aren't a good enough musician yourself to appreciate the songcraft and production quality of countless metal bands

claymation wrote:

It seems that the majority of commentators on this thread have a limited scope and narrow perspective of the world of music in general (especially the thread instigator)! If you like metal, fine! But don't try forcing it down all our throats or you'll find yourself throatless!

I can't speak for Devil but you might want to go to the main page of DTC and check out the reviews and blogsThere you will find a ton of posts by Devil containing some very insightful music writings on a variety of genres

I can't speak for Zom but I would invitie you to check out the list of musicians he has recorded at his studio

I personally have been playing a huge variety of styles from metal to country jazz over the 30+ years that I have been a musicianYou can check out everything I do at rockulaproductions.com

The people here that make bold statements about music do so because they have the pedigree to back it upThat doesn't mean we don't challenge each other's opinions on a case to case basis but we all accept each other as peersWhat can you show us to make us see you as a peer?

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
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Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:56 pm

claymation

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:50 amPosts: 245

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

Rockula! wrote:

Your cursory appraisal of metal shows that you haven't listened to much of it, or aren't a good enough musician yourself to appreciate the songcraft and production quality of countless metal bands

Dude! Did you even read my post? I started with saying I'm not a freaking metal fan - duh. I also mention I'm not a freaking musician in the second freaking paragraph. Did you ride the short bus when you were growing up, or are you just simple? Yeah, I really want to try to be one of your "peers". Apparently, that would mean lowering my standards. Yeesh.

I appreciate that you, Devil and Zom have a historied musical background, but it really doesn't show in this thread. All I have to show is my years of experience in radio djing, not that you would consider that terribly impressive. I don't have anything online to point to like you guys, but don't think that means that my opinion isn't well researched and thoughtfully considered.

Dude! Did you even read my post? I started with saying I'm not a freaking metal fan - duh. I also mention I'm not a freaking musician in the second freaking paragraph. Did you ride the short bus when you were growing up, or are you just simple? Yeah, I really want to try to be one of your "peers". Apparently, that would mean lowering my standards. Yeesh.

-If you're not a metal fan then why do you feel that you have the necessary experience to back up a statement basically dismissing metal as shredding with no songcraft or production quality?The rest of your rebuttal is laughable message board posturing

claymation wrote:

I appreciate that you, Devil and Zom have a historied musical background, but it really doesn't show in this thread. All I have to show is my years of experience in radio djing, not that you would consider that terribly impressive. I don't have anything online to point to like you guys, but don't think that means that my opinion isn't well researched and thoughtfully considered.

I went back and read the previous posts again and they sounded like reasonable and well informed discussions on the topicI do consider DJing impressive (I do it myself)If your opinion was well researched and thoughtfully considered then it would actually stickIt doesn't and just sounds like someone who got his feelings hurt because we were speaking negatively about a form of music they enjoy

If you had provided any kinds of examples supporting your argument then we wouldn' be having this conversation

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
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Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:54 pm

zom-zom

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pmPosts: 3269

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

Claymation, yes I am speaking of Rumgumption.. glad you know of them.

I did listen to a lot of electronic music for a number of years, but mostly in the '80s. I still really like some of it, but it's just not my thing anymore and I really don't care to dance much these days. As electronic music became more computer-based in performance and recording I lost more and more interest in it.

I really don't like Slayer at all, clown metal as far as I'm concerned. And I think your opinion is as learned and valid as anyone else's. I think I respected electronic musicians more when there was more physical work involved setting up synths to talk to each other properly, patching together sounds, working with limited sonic vocabularies.. it just seems to be too easy now, set up your laptop and go. I'm sure some people are creating good music that way but I guess I just don't care anymore. I'd rather watch someone playing cool music on an acoustic instrument.

Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:18 pm

2fisted

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:00 pmPosts: 3375Location: ATBOG

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

Mmmm klown metal

Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:29 pm

claymation

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:50 amPosts: 245

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

Rockula! wrote:

statement basically dismissing metal as shredding with no songcraft or production quality?

Your right, I should have been more specific. I wasn't referring to metal in general, I was considering the discussion on live performances, not dissing metal. I'm sure metal is as well composed and recorded as any genre.

There does seem to be a lack of knowledge of current (and even early) electronic music in this thread, in addition to a disdain or lack of enjoyment of it. Why insult something that you have little knowledge of? I don't doubt your somewhat varied musical background, but I do doubt your electronic musical backgrounds.

My point is, that there are bands that are lazy on stage, but I know of many that really get up there and actually play music!

I still go to shows and remark a lack of enthusiasm in MN audiences (most recently Gang of Four), so it's not just electronic shows that folks just stand around quietly at. I think it's a Twin Cities thing.

zom-zom wrote:

I really don't care to dance much these days.

Again, I do like to dance, so maybe I am able to tolerate prerecorded music <ahemvnvnatiionahem> because they put on a performance that holds my attention in other ways. Believe me, I love to see bands that seriously rock their keyboards, like Liam Howlett does with The Prodigy and Patrick Codenys in Front 242, but not being a musician myself, I appreciate showmanship in general as well. Just my preferrence, I guess...

zom-zom wrote:

it just seems to be too easy now, set up your laptop and go.

True, but I seem to remember reading that one of the reasons that Depeche Mode chose to make music with synths was because of their portability. laptops do make it easy, but it's still easy for me to tell what's good and what's shit in digital music. The more things change, the more they stay the same!

Your right, I should have been more specific. I wasn't referring to metal in general, I was considering the discussion on live performances, not dissing metal. I'm sure metal is as well composed and recorded as any genre.

That doesn't make any senseSongcraft should be just as evident in a live setting as on recordLive production quality is subjective because the venue is the peoblem, not the band So your rebuttal goes nowhere

claymation wrote:

There does seem to be a lack of knowledge of current (and even early) electronic music in this thread, in addition to a disdain or lack of enjoyment of it. Why insult something that you have little knowledge of? I don't doubt your somewhat varied musical background, but I do doubt your electronic musical backgrounds.

Once again, you show that you have made no effort whatsoever to really research that claim other than what you have read on this threadNone of us bothered to compose a an intro paragraph to let everyone know how educated we are in electronic history because we have already proven that to each other in the countless music threads over the past decade (Devil has been here since the beginning) have participated over the past decade (new boy)In addition to not reading up on Devil, you have obviously not visited rockulaproductions.com If you had, you would have noticed that there are hundreds of examples of my electronic background in the form of blogs, music and actual video documentation of the process

claymation wrote:

My point is, that there are bands that are lazy on stage, but I know of many that really get up there and actually play music!

You should check this guy out, he does that exact thingHe plays all of the instruments as well as trigging loops and samples and manipulating noise all while projecting videoYou might like him seeing as you prefer artists that really get up there and actually play music

claymation wrote:

but not being a musician myself, I appreciate showmanship in general as well. Just my preferrence, I guess...laptops do make it easy, but it's still easy for me to tell what's good and what's shit in digital music.

Now it is my turn to doubt if it is truly easy for youMaybe you should re-assess your musical knowldege

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
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Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:31 am

claymation

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:50 amPosts: 245

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

Rockula! wrote:

That doesn't make any senseSongcraft should be just as evident in a live setting as on recordLive production quality is subjective because the venue is the peoblem, not the band

Right, but what I was trying to get at was that metal is playing guitars in a way that is based on fretwork dexterity. Whether it be rhythm or melody parts, or solos within songs, and that doesn't hold much interest to me. Just my taste. I'm not going to say anything more about metal because I know that I have little knowledge of it. On the other hand, you may have written and engineered plenty of electronic music, but since you don't play much of it when you DJ at Hard Mondays how interested in it can you possibly be?

Rockula! wrote:

Once again, you show that you have made no effort whatsoever to really research that claim other than what you have read on this thread

Okay, I have read quite a bit on the majority of the site, and Devil does positively review many electronic releases, so why is there so much electronic bashing on this thread particularly? Has it fallen out of your graces as of late? Besides, I shouldn't need to research all of your backgrounds in order to comment on what you write in any specific thread. If you write something that sounds amateurish here, what difference does it make if you sounded professional three years ago?

Rockula! wrote:

Now it is my turn to doubt if it is truly easy for youMaybe you should re-assess your musical knowldege

I have developed a method over the years that works for me. That's fine if you doubt me. None of us should really care what each other thinks too strongly anyways. I find that I am my own harshest critic. If I really like what I'm doing, and someone else doesn't, then they'll have to figure something else out for themselves. Sorry.

personally i like many types of music, though i certainly have my favorite genres.i'm not much of a dancer. hell, i don't do much of anything at shows, electronic, metal, or otherwise, but just watch and take it all in and study the sounds and spectacles in a way, but that is just me personally. i'm just not outwardly demonstrative and enthusiastic most of the time. there are occasional exceptions of course, but that's just me.i don't know why the metal scene grows in strength and i'm not going to venture to guess because i simply don't know as much about the metal scene to give it a fair and equal assessment, though i have been exploring it more and more as i continue to explore music as a whole.i don't see the fact that i am at present (and possibly always will be) more into electronic music than metal as a sign of a lack of personality. sure, i may seem aloof and quiet, but i'm just socially awkward and am prone to introspection rather than interaction. i can be very articulate with friends and in small groups.i suppose i should accuse someone of sophistry or something now...

Just because I'm not playing dance music doesn't mean I don't play electronic musicThere's dance music in the main roomThere's dance music in the video barPeople go to the back to get away from the dance floor and interact with othersMy job is to play interesting background musicEven if it is not anything the people there are used to hearing (or even able to identify as electronic music in the first place)

I keep reminding you of the topic of this discussion and you keep ignoring itThe question intends to explore why electronic music does not have the support that metal doesSo, it has nothing to do with the music itself and everything to to with the musicians who make it and the fans who support it (or don't)

So, that means that I can love electronic music but have a low opinion of the people who are involved in both sides of the consumption of the popular forms of it

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
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Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:23 pm

claymation

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:50 amPosts: 245

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

The first part sounds like you're saying that electronic music and dance music are the same thing, but I don't think that you believe that. I'm familar with most of the artists you spin, but I still struggle to identify the electronic ones on your playlists in the Rockula HM thread.

And fair enough about the topic of the popularity of metal over electronic, although I did theorize above that it might be a US vs. Europe thing even though that is oversimplifying the matter. The US does seem to be very electronic-phobic, especially when it comes to anything approaching a more aggressive sound. I could be wrong.

Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:24 pm

Ether

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pmPosts: 1768Location: Twin Cities

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

claymation wrote:

That's fine if you doubt me. None of us should really care what each other thinks too strongly anyways. I find that I am my own harshest critic. If I really like what I'm doing, and someone else doesn't, then they'll have to figure something else out for themselves. Sorry.

My first statement was that electronic music is dominated by the dance sensibilityThere are tons of electronic artists out there that don't play dance music but you won't hear them in any club we go toEve if a band's main goal is not to play dance music, the only thing you will hear in a club is the song they wrote that just happens to have a danceable beatBy the way, did you know that most of Motorhead's music is dance music?Seriously, this is an idea straight from Lemmy's mouthThe point being that they would never dare market their music as dance music because that's not what their audience dermandsConversely, you have to market your electronic music to the dance crowd or else you get stuck in some tiny electronic rock sub-genre playing in front of 50 people at Station 4 (and that's if you are a national act)

As far as how the audience goes, I have had a large majority of them say they don't wanna go to a dance club and hear a live band that they cannot dance toIt all comes down to the compatmentalization and specialization that has forced music into neat and easily definable categories so as to not confuse the clubgoer about exactly what they can expect when they pay their admission to the club

*SIDE NOTE- I have always been slightly offended having to pay a cover to get into a dance clubI barely think most bands are worth my $5 but it is even harder to pay money to watch people dance (I don't care how slutty the girls are, or pretend to be)

This brings us back to the original intent of the post so I will summarize again-Music fans are interested in whatever is good music-Dance fans are interested in whatever gets the most people on the floor (even if it is the same Lords of Acid track that I heard a million times)This fosters a growth in "musician" music (well, sorta thanks to indie and emo )whereas dance music is always a slave to the beat and cannot vary too far away from it so as to not confuse the dancer

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
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I have no problems paying a cover if there is a performance or if the patron is under agedOther than that, it just seems frivolousI'd rather there be a drink minimum than a cover (but that's pretty hard to enforce)

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
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Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:10 pm

rskm1

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 7:00 pmPosts: 4914Location: S St Paul

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

Rockula! wrote:

I have no problems paying a cover if there is a performance or if the patron is under agedOther than that, it just seems frivolous

What's "frivolous" about charging cover for a dance night? Ever paid heat/electric/insurance/security/tax/permits to run a venue with a dance floor? If you did, would you let people in for free?

Granted, the markup on booze is so ridiculous you may think it's egregious to charge admission TOO... but not everyone's there to drink. A pretty good compromise is a charge cover that includes a "drink ticket". That way the venue still collects from the non-drinkers, but the drinkers don't feel fleeced.

I understand the costs incurred in running a barI even know what it takes to run GZ (been Chuck's sounding board more than once)The drink ticket idea is the same as a minimumI don't know anyone who doesn't expect higher markup on drinks at a dance club because that's what pays the rentAs far as people who go there and don't drink?Those people fill the dance floor, making others wanna go there and dance tooNothing kills a night like an empty dance floorAlso, charging underaged non drinker is acceptable

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
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Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:10 pm

dj_craig

Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2003 3:02 pmPosts: 1893Location: Minneapolis

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

rskm1 wrote:

"Electronic" isn't a musical style, it's an equipment description.

It would be more apt to compare/contrast "Electronic" with "Guitar".How would you characterize the fanbase of "Guitar"? (Not so easy, is it!)

All of the variants of "Metal" (black, death, heavy, hair, etc) have some pretty common elements that even outsiders can recognize.But using "Electronic" to describe a genre is wayyyy too general. Gabber and Ambient are both generally "Electronic", but bear little similarity to each other beyond the equipment used to produce it.

I think Rob hit the nail on the head right here. "Electronic" is such a misnomer.

I also think this statement is way off:

devil wrote:

The Metal scene has continued to grow in strength while the Electronic scene still languishes in its lame and obstinate obscurity.

Sure "Dark" electronic music hasn't taken off (one could easily argue that nothing really "Dark" or gothy has really taken off in years), but there are a ton of electronic sub-genres and many of them are as big, or bigger, then they have ever been.

Heck Deadmau5 had tickets to his DJ show going for $500 on Craig's list just a few months ago.

Yet "electronic" acts like Lady Ga Ga out gross any rock band U2 doesn't count because they're not a rock band anymoreWhat "they" were referring to was the fact that music will be made by electronics more than by instruments in the futureI would say "they" were correct

_________________I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!

Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:54 pm

rskm1

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 7:00 pmPosts: 4914Location: S St Paul

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

Hell, most of the Top40/R&B tripe coming out these days uses an autotuner as the front-man, and if that's not electronic, I dunno what is.

Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:30 pm

thosquanta

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pmPosts: 3442Location: minneapolis

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

rskm1 wrote:

Hell, most of the Top40/R&B tripe coming out these days uses an autotuner as the front-man, and if that's not electronic, I dunno what is.

this was true a few years ago. top40 moves faster than you do. fickle fuckers, one and all.

The best of both metal /electronic = Fear Factory... which of course is not a fact but my fav ... then NIN which havent always been metal at times but when they were they were def electro thrash...

Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:50 pm

sxavier

Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 7:41 pmPosts: 5

Re: Metal vs. Electronic

I have to agree that even some people who love elect music are not really appreciative of the type of music they hear to begin with but more of the vibe that the whole thing experiences and sees fit within the group.

You just have to choose between which you are really going to enjoy and capitalize from it to your advantage. A DJ is someone who just makes sure people have something to listen to, music or not.