[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2398 date=1059636528]<br />[color=cerulean]<br />I'm working on the Demonstrative Is, Ea, and Id and the related Personal Pronouns. Boy is this a toughie! I don't see any sort of "pattern" in the declension! Is there a trick to memorizing these?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />There is a pattern: compare is, ea, id with the first and second declensions, and you'll see that most of the plural is regular. The genitive in -ius and the dative in -i are typical of pronouns (compare this with the 9 irregular adiectives, that can also be used as pronouns). The only irregularities left are 'is' for the nom.s.masc and 'id' for the nom/acc.s.neutr. <br /><br />Ingrid

[quote author=bingley link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2409 date=1059644148]<br />Eas gallinas would be 'those chickens'. For 'her chickens' use the genitive eius gallinas [/quote]<br /><br />Oh, the Genetive! What was I thinking? I think I was stuck on the ACC because gallinas was ACC. <br /><br />

I think Gallia is the country. The (male) Gaul would be Gallus. Again 'eum armam' (should be plural) 'those arms'. His arms 'arma eius'

<br /><br />Oh, you're right about that. I should have used Gallus instead of Gallius.<br /><br />If arms should be plural, then the ACC PL would be armas. Would I usethe GEN S with that to say "his arms"? That is, "eius armas"? Gallus eius armas laudat.<br /><br />

And so on. If his or her or its does not refer to the subject, it will always be eius.

<br /><br />Ah, I didn't see that connection before. Thanks for pointing that out. <br />

[quote author=Skylax link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2458 date=1059671763]<br />8. Is agricola eorum agros arat. (="the fields of other men") [/quote]<br /><br />Oh I see my mistake, I didn't make ager ACC PL. And I should have made "their" GEN PL, thus eorum.<br /><br />I see the trend here, I keep missing the instances when I should use the GEN. I will have to work on that.<br />

<br />9. Ii servi miseri suum dominum desiderant.

<br /><br />I see I mistakenly used malus instead of miser, and I forgot to make malus agree with NUM PL. <br />

<br /><br />Again, I mistakenly used malus, and I didn't know that I should have used the GEN eorum. I think I know why. I'm trying to match case, and I thought that it should match the noun which is in the ACC. <br />

<br />11. Viri liberi suam patriam amant.

<br /><br />This was absolutely sloppy of me to not match sua with the noun, making it suam. <br />

<br /><br />Hmmm... this one is really tough! <br /><br />Thanks for the corrections. They really help me try to understand where I went wrong. I need to work on agreement, and to remember to use the GEN for his/her/its/their.<br />

[quote author=ingrid70 link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2459 date=1059677012]<br />There is a pattern: compare is, ea, id with the first and second declensions, and you'll see that most of the plural is regular. The genitive in -ius and the dative in -i are typical of pronouns (compare this with the 9 irregular adiectives, that can also be used as pronouns). The only irregularities left are 'is' for the nom.s.masc and 'id' for the nom/acc.s.neutr. [/quote]<br /><br />Oooooh... you've just summarized it all! I didn't see that at all. I see... the base is e!<br /><br />

[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2480 date=1059718667]<br />[quote author=bingley link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2409 date=1059644148]<br />Eas gallinas would be 'those chickens'. For 'her chickens' use the genitive eius gallinas [/quote]<br /><br />Oh, the Genetive! What was I thinking? I think I was stuck on the ACC because gallinas was ACC. <br /><br />

I think Gallia is the country. The (male) Gaul would be Gallus. Again 'eum armam' (should be plural) 'those arms'. His arms 'arma eius'

<br /><br />Oh, you're right about that. I should have used Gallus instead of Gallius.<br /><br />If arms should be plural, then the ACC PL would be armas. Would I usethe GEN S with that to say "his arms"? That is, "eius armas"? Gallus eius armas laudat.<br /><br />

And so on. If his or her or its does not refer to the subject, it will always be eius.

[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2485 date=1059730591]<br />The accusative plural of armum is arma [/quote]<br /><br />Oh I see. I keep thinking arma starts out NOM S when it is really NOm PL. And that I have to decline this. And the ACC PL just happens to be the sasme as the NOM PL version, arma. And suum must agree in the ACC PL, thus sua. It's all slowly coming together for me. <br /><br />So the sentence should be:<br /> Gallus suum arma laudat.<br /> Gallus eius arma laudat.<br /><br />Does this mean arma is never used in the singular? <br /><br />

[quote author=Skylax link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2458 date=1059671763]<br />6. Gallus arma sua laudat.<br />7. Gallus eius arma laudat. [/quote]<br /><br />I must have missed the rule about where to place these pronouns/adjectives.<br /><br />Can I generalize be saying that the mea/tua/sua types go after the noun, while the is/ea/id types go before the noun? ???<br /><br />

[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2398 date=1059636528]<br />[color=cerulean]<br />I'm working on the Demonstrative Is, Ea, and Id and the related Personal Pronouns. Boy is this a toughie! I don't see any sort of "pattern" in the declension! Is there a trick to memorizing these?<br /><br />BLD mentions options for some. For example: ei or ii; eis or iis. Then he has a note below which reads "In the plural the forms with two i's are preferred". If that is the case, why don't we learn only the "ii" version?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I didn't see an answer to this question, so here's my take on why you are told about both - when you're actually reading latin texts, you will find both, depending on who's edited the text, and which author wrote it, and so on! Another example along these lines, which stands out vividly to me, is the accusative plural of 3rd declension nouns - I learned that these are "usually" ended in "-es". But when reading the Aeneid this spring, I discovered that Vergil seemed to prefer the other option, "-is". This gave me a good deal of headache, until I tripped over one of those notes that explains the other option...!<br /><br />Kilmeny

[quote author=ingrid70 link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2503 date=1059774926]<br />That's right, arma is a 'plurale tantum': just plural. Like scissors in English. [/quote]<br /><br />The funny thing is that I'm not even "aware" that scissors is always plural. I suppose it was the same way with Latin, they never gave it a second thought about arma. <br />

[quote author=Milito link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2510 date=1059780044]<br /> when you're actually reading latin texts, you will find both, depending on who's edited the text, and which author wrote it, and so on! [/quote]<br /><br />Oh, I see. That makes perfect sense, you have to learn it so that you will recognize it if you happen to run across it when some rogue author decides to use the less preferred variation. <br />

Well, it's not even necessarily a rogue author! Consider - you can tell I'm Canadian because I write "colour", "honour", and "favour" (and so on.....) And when I was going to high school, it was absolutely verboten to think about using the spelling "donut" (if one happened to want to) in class - it had to be "doughnut".....<br /><br />Spellings change between times and places, and we are really lucky in that we have a lot of Latin literature (relatively speaking!) from a lot of times and places....<br /><br />Kilmeny

milito have you seen "Bowling For Columbine"? <br /><br />Do you lock your door? <br /><br />Woah! I never knew how cool Canada was! I mean, 30 million people and 7 million guns - but hardly any killings! Nice to see that you only be shooting deerses ;D<br />but you shouldn't do that either...<br /><br />And Canadians are so much less paranoid, they would be good at is, ea, id (not just to keep it on topic!). And the mayors actually want good for their people <br /><br />See - American TV convinced me that canadians were worthless...I should stop, like many others should, believing everything that I watch on T.V! <br /><br />Sorry (ignore this if you don't be canadian!). <br />

[quote author=Milito link=board=3;threadid=335;start=15#2545 date=1059840510]<br />Spellings change between times and places, and we are really lucky in that we have a lot of Latin literature (relatively speaking!) from a lot of times and places.... [/quote]<br /><br />I suppose having a lot of Latin liturature serve as examples to help piece it all together, and to see how the language evolved. <br /><br />How much Latin literature is available? How does this compare to the amount of Greek liturature available?<br /><br />But still... these spelling variations -- eis vs iis and ei vs ii -- create another challenge for us newbies.<br /><br />

[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=335;start=15#2607 date=1059946915]<br /><br />Oddly enough, I never really thought about how sexist some of the phrases were. <br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />I gladly notice them while reading, and laugh at how accurate they are ;D

[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=335;start=15#2612 date=1059948075]<br />I gladly notice them while reading, and laugh at how accurate they are ;D [/quote]<br /><br />It certainly makes it more authentic. But aren't you glad that times have changed? You really don't want to spend all your time going off to war with all that primitive weoponry, do you? And they weren't as advanced in medicine to patch you up if you were to get a bad injury. <br />

[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=335;start=15#2607 date=1059946915]<br />[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=335;start=0#2495 date=1059749065]<br />I like sexist Latin phrases they sound funny. [/quote]<br /><br />Oddly enough, I never really thought about how sexist some of the phrases were. <br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Hmmm, I did. What do you think of the story of Perseus and Andromeda, where the oracle tells Andromeda's father that she has to be sacrificed to the monster in order to save the country. Then the next sentence is:<br /><br />Andromeda autem erat puella pulchra.<br /><br />Yeah, right. If she'd been ugly, it would have been no problem ::)?<br /><br />Ingrid

[quote author=ingrid70 link=board=3;threadid=335;start=15#2664 date=1059981688]<br /><br />Hmmm, I did. What do you think of the story of Perseus and Andromeda, where the oracle tells Andromeda's father that she has to be sacrificed to the monster in order to save the country. Then the next sentence is:<br /><br />Andromeda autem erat puella pulchra.<br /><br />Yeah, right. If she'd been ugly, it would have been no problem ::)?<br /><br />Ingrid<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Where could I find more context of the Andromeda autem-sentence?<br /><br />Vale.<br /><br />Ptolemaios

(Going off topic but...)<br /><br />Well, I speak only French. Alas. French is the only language into which I could translate the Dutch sentence with a sufficient confidence. It is a delightful sentence, you know, etiamsi foedas feminas non amas. Ceterum quomodo feminas foedas agnoscis ?

[quote author=ingrid70 link=board=3;threadid=335;start=15#2664 date=1059981688]<br />Hmmm, I did. What do you think of the story of Perseus and Andromeda, where the oracle tells Andromeda's father that she has to be sacrificed to the monster in order to save the country. [/quote]<br /><br />I'm ignorant of that story. Is this a story I will come across in BLD Latin for Beginners? <br />

[quote author=ingrid70 link=board=3;threadid=335;start=15#2683 date=1059995768]<br />BLD ex. 171. The story of Perseus and Andromeda is told in 4 exercises, this is the second one. The others are 168, 193 and 200. [/quote]<br /><br />That's way off me. I'm only on Ex 124. I'm so happy, We finally got to verbs! All is right.... <br /><br />I don't feel like I've fully absorbed is, ea, id and all the declensions, but I have the feeling I'll get more practice as I move forward and do future exercises which build on past topics.<br /><br />

[quote author=Skylax link=board=3;threadid=335;start=30#2706 date=1060003148]<br />Well, I speak only French. Alas. French is the only language into which I could translate the Dutch sentence with a sufficient confidence. [/quote]<br /><br />It only makes sense that you would feel most comfortable translating anything into votre langue maternelle. I really loved your translation of the Latin fragment in the other thread about a picture of Old Latin (http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-forum/viewtopic . php?t=326;start=2410). <br />