When Will Southerners Tire of Being Ignorant?

It looks like comedian Jeff Foxworthy has a new punchline to add to his “you just might be a redneck” routine. It goes like this:

If you believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya, (altogether now) you just might be a redneck!

Apparently 23% of Americans polled by Research 2000 are either unsure of the President’s citizenship or outright deny that he is a citizen. The geographic breakdown of the numbers is sadly predictable:

A whopping 53% of Southerners polled are not convinced that Barack Obama was born in the United States.

It took until 1865 and a civil war that almost wrecked our country for Southerners to figure out that slavery was not “ok”. It then took another 100 years or so before the government forced the imbeciles in charge of things to give equal rights to blacks. And now here we are in 2009 and the South once again shows its profound ignorance.

This does not come as a complete surprise to me. When I visited Atlanta a decade or so ago I turned on the hotel television to be greeted by an advertisement to tour a nearby plantation and get a taste of Southern culture. When in Germany, a tour of Auschwitz is meant to be a lesson in man’s inhumanity to man. In Georgia, the South’s past of dehumanizing Africans was celebrated as a culture for which we should be nostalgic.

As a black man, when I hear that great cacophony popularly called rap “music”, I cringe with embarrassment. Quite often, pure garbage passes as “culture”. I can only hope that the 47% of Southerners who think, are equally mortified by their brain dead brethren. It’s high time the South embraced intelligence and joined the company of educated men and women who can tell foolishness from fact.

In the following fantastic commentary, HBO’s Bill Maher says, “In America there is no idea so patently absurd that it can’t catch on”. He goes on to say that foolishness like the Birther movement gains traction by “dummies talking to other dummies”. According to Maher, we ignore this nonsense at our own peril. It grows like a weed, fed on ignorance and a dash of racism.

Above all, who do I hold accountable for the spread of this nonsense? Eleven names come to mind. Eleven Congressmen who don’t have the guts to call their constituents nutjobs when the label fits. I’m talking about the author and co-sponsors of the so called “birther bill”, H.R. 1503. This is a hall of shame that should be on the front of every paper in America, eleven elected officials who should never see elected office again.

We have two wars, a crushing deficit, record unemployment and more than enough legitimate grounds for debate about the Obama administration’s policies, to spend even a minute on this insanity, second only in absurdity to the “Hollywood studio moonwalk” conspiracy. And once again, we can count on the South to lead the way in xenophobic, if not outright racist diversions.

I’m sure there are Southerners who will read this piece and accuse me of being disrespectful. I’m sorry, but respect is earned through enlightenment, not ignorance. At least 53% of you are an embarrassment to our nation. You’ll get respect when you get a clue.

We Southerners understand your concern Rutherford. Tex thinks it is silly too. Now where is the proof that Obama registered for Selective Service like I had to do? When will Obama open up his records for us to see of his glorious accolades that he and his cronies bragged during the election season? What is Obama hiding that he doesn’t want us to see?

See, your lying President is his own worst enemy and world’s leading hypocrite. He claims, like Clinton did about running the most “moral” administration, that his was to be the most “transparent” administration. When even the pinko media from the left is complaining about the secrecy of this clan, then I think what we are witnessing here is a pathological liar “R”.

I don’t see how you can deny now that Obama has been a grave disappointment – his poll ratings now beginning to rival Gerald Ford at this stage. And when a man misleads and dances as often as this man does, when he is as hypocritical as Obama is with the obvious double standards, when he tries to hoodwink the American populace time after time with empty promises he can’t possibly keep, then what happens is wild conspiracy theories begin to take hold. It’s Chicago corruption now at a national level.

I should add that Bill Maher has no room to call anybody stupid, lest he is talking about the 40% of the American public that voted for Obama because they were promised free stuff – being Maher has quickly become the RoseAnne Barr of the male species.

On a funnier note, today I was watching another of the leftist affirmative action folk on FOX named Marc Lemont Hill posing as an economist, though his PHD is in anthropology. This poor sap was actually being laughed at by the panel in defending Obama – everything he said in defense was turned upside down and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was total horsesh*t. You would have been embarrassed for him and probably screaming the panel racist. :wink:

Ps. I think you love the “birther” movement. It’s a nice, slow pitch softball for you to hit out of the park.

I thought for sure you were going to tackle the shockingly inadequate logistics with Cash for Clunkers and, using a well thought out argument, somehow reassure us the same cluster fuck won’t manifest itself with socialized medicine.

I would be one of those not sure if Obama was born in the US. I AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT! But, because President Obama refuses to show us everything needed to be sure, I wonder. I doubt that he was born outside of the US, but I wonder. I do agree that arguing over this is pointless until more evidence can be found.

“I’m sure there are Southerners who will read this piece and accuse me of being disrespectful. I’m sorry, but respect is earned through enlightenment, not ignorance. At least 53% of you are an embarrassment to our nation. You’ll get respect when you get a clue.”-Rutherford

Amazing that Rutherford will take fellow Americans who live in the South, roll them up in some collective ball, refer to them as “You” and then call them ignorant.

Yet, Elric’s attack on Islamic culture causes hims such pain.

Considering Rutherford is black, what a dangerous precedent he has started here. Can you imagine if we started holding every black man responsible for the diseased, vile culture of black America. A people where each community alone kills thousands of dogs for the sake urban gladiatorial games. A community who murders their own children in cold blood, over a few 5 dollar rocks of cocaine. A community where it is perfectly acceptable for reptilian fathers to do nothing but inseminate one female after another, defying the nature of most males even within the entire mammalian order.

I used to work with this guy Dick (no pun) – good guy. They promoted Dick to Pricing Manager and he was immediately over his head. Dick and I shared the same boss, who used to get so frustrated with Dick not managing the department, that he would pull me in and rant, asking me what is wrong with this man?

Every day, Dave (our boss) would tell Dick that he was no longer simply a pricing administrator and that he needed to start managing the department. And Dick would resort back to turning his back and doing simple data entry. Dick was in completely over his head and he knew it. What’s more, though Dick liked the money that came with the position, he would have gladly returned to being just an old pricing clerk if given the choice. It was a sad commentary and ending up eventually ruining Dick.
———————————–

Rabbit, Rutherford is ignoring the issues because he has no answer and is embarrassed that a smart guy like himself has been hoodwinked into believing Obama’s gift of gab was enough.

Rutherford has resorted to data entry. He identifies what he believes low-hanging fruit to blog (birthers, Sarah Palin, racists) because he has nothing left to write about. He’s invested his entire adult life into liberal politics, and when he finally got his wish with a black liberal elected, now that Obama is proving a disaster as leader, there is nothing left to write about but the old cliche of alleged racism and excuse making.

It’s a sad commentary like Dick. Both Rutherford and Dick deserved better but like the old adage goes, be careful what you wish for.

One thing I can say without moral clarity. And I think I know the north better than Rutherford knows the south. In fact, I’m almost sure of it because I lived in the south but worked in the north for many years.

There isn’t a more racist part of the country than the north and west coast. While they don’t have the history of the civil war, civil rights, etc…, most of the south grew after that. The north is still stuck in 1964. If you want to see real racial problems, you don’t head to Georgia or Louisiana. You go to L.A., or New Jersey, or Detroit.

Dead Rabbit,
A. I’m not sure comparing the entirety of the south to a bunch of Rev. Wright urbanites was really the comparison you were going for.

B. I live in the south and I like it, for a number of reasons, but your characterization of it sucks. Crime rates and violent crime rates are much higher across the south than they are in other parts of the country, as are the number of hate crimes. There are, of course, different ways of characterizing “harmony,” I do like that southerners are on the face of it much more polite. They are also, from my experience, more likely to kick your ass over an insult. In general though, trying to apply a word with a diversity in meanings to a wide region with a large number of people is well, just intellectually ignorant.

Rutherford,
While I don’t really agree with any of the commenters here, I still had to shake my head at your characterization of the South. First of all, whatever you may think about the relative ignorance of the south, it has relatively little to do with how they feel about Obama’s birth status. Southerner’s, more than anywhere in the country are inclusive, proud and generally resentful of the federal government. Historically, they have some good reasons for this. In the above passage, you acted as if it was the rest of the country which should be spiteful of the South for their attachment to slavery. But you have to remember that for 40 years after the Civil war, Southerners were basically shut out of the federal government. They’ve historically been the poorest in the country, and therefor the farthest from the halls of power. It wasn’t until well after the Depression and WWII that they were able to gain any political momentum, and by that time the uniqueness of their history had made them a cultural minority in the country. If you want a people to forget a bad cultural history you have to provide them with a better cultural future, which the US federal government refused to provide. So the south looked back. All the iterations of southern political power since that time have been about their resentment for the federal government in their attempted destruction of their history while categorically refusing to do anything for the south but let it wallow in poverty. Hence the heavy libertarianism, George Wallace and the current birthers.

What you have is a people, already resentful of the federal government, shut of the halls of power again, basically acting like a bunch of sore losers. I don’t believe for a second that over half of southerners actually believe Obama wasn’t born in the US, what I do believe is that they will take any excuse they can for not recognizing him as president. It’s not really ignorance so much as it’s twisted wishful thinking.

Also, if you went to Auschwitz and all you got from the experience was some fatalistic concept about “man’s inhumanity to man,” well then you missed the boat. Kinda of a pointless lesson if you ask me. What it should be a lesson in is how, under certain conditions, when intellectualism & rationality breakdown and fear prevails, people can be awfully horrific. However, there’s no innate inhumanity, it’s conditional.

And having a bunch of government heads and outsiders advocating we turn plantations into slavery museums isn’t going to moderate the south at all, in fact the opposite. Imagine your reaction if people you didn’t know told you you should hate your history. It universally creates a “WTF” reaction and resentment. I think its that outside lecturing without incentivizing changing which has allowed some racism to persist in the south. It’s the same in Germany, where a class of young people who had nothing to do with the Holocaust have reached towards Neo-Nazism because they hate the demonizing of Germany in WWII. Trying to make people feel guilty can breed some bizarre results, hardly ever positive.

Aren’t you a transplanted “southerner”? If not, you and I have a very different understanding the south and southwest and I have live here my entire 49 years. You should recognize the real wheels of power are now the south, including economic. That is were the immigration heads, the businesses thriving, and growth still part of the equation. The north is living on borrowed time and a well ingrained history. It’s infrastructure falling apart, it’s manufacturing base in disarray.

In addition, I believe your commentary on Nazi Germany is shallow – very shallow. Hitler came to power much like America today. He was able to do this by fragmenting and categorizing the population (like the left does), was able to scare the population with fear including the economy (like the left does), was able to full the masses with promises of grandeur that he could never fulfill (like the left does), and thought of himself and his comrades as intellectually superior (like the left does).

I find it amazing that Obama keeps hiding shit from us, and all his supporters can ever say is “Don’t worry about it.”

If this stuff is so benieth being worried about, then why the hell is it being kept hidden?

We hear about the great academic career of Barack Obama. So why are his academic works and scores being hidden?

We hear about the great diverse international childhood of Barack Obama. So why is his birth certificate being hidden?

I believe that Barack Obama is fully allowed to be POTUS. I just find it interesting that this entire issue could be cleared up by producing a single document that he, for whatever reason, is loath to give us.

As a parent, when I keep hearing “Don’t worry about it” as a reply to my questions, that is when I begin to worry about it.

Rabbit,
I’m afraid your anecdotal experience in one particularly bad Yankee city isn’t very telling of everyone in the North’s experience.

Tex,
I’m half yank/half southerner. I was born in West Virginia and spent my first 5 years or so there (which is really only half a southern state) and was raised in Ohio, though my mother, being a southern woman, would take me down for a month or two every summer to Tennessee. I’ve been in Alabama 2 years now. If you think the south, in a blanket way, have been empowered, I’ll take you to Sand Mountain, Alabama, the Mississippi Bayou or the West Virginia highlands. I’ve spent alot of time in all three of those places, and they are quite easily the poorest places in the country. Ever been to a snake handling church Tex? I have. As for our southern experiences, there are wheels of economic power in Texas sure, not so much in Mississippi, Alabama, most of Georgia (outside of Atlanta), South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, or North Carolina. Texas, Virginia, and the Atlanta area are probably the exceptions to the rule more than the rule. Per capita GDP across the south is still much lower than most of the country, excepting some outliers like New Mexico and Wyoming.

You can disagree with my characterization of Nazi Germany if you like. However, I really will never believe that book burnings weren’t sending a clear message about intellectualism, brownshirts and Kristallnacht weren’t about fear and injecting blue dye into the eyes of Jews was about an end to rationality. Also, you don’t force most of the country into one party, and most of the country’s children into one youth group, as a way of fragmenting them. Nazism was about breaking people’s trust in one another sure, but it was never about breaking their uniformity.

Obama’s birth certificate isn’t only about where he was born. It is my understanding that the long-form cert that everyone wants to see would also show if he was adopted by his mother’s 2nd husband, and made a citizen of Indonesia.

Of course, as the author of the piece I read that in notes, a minor cannot be held to a contract, which is what a change in citizenship would be. So that means this still isn’t enough to negate his election.

But it shows that this isn’t just about where he was born, as you, and others, would like us to believe it is about. It’s a more complex situation.

For every snake charming church you can take me to Marc, I take you to some equally strange places in the north equally as off-the-wall and a heck of a lot more threatening. For every poor little southern town like Sand Mountain, AL, you can take me to, I’ll take you to a rust belt like Flint, MI, or East New York, or southside Chicago and see if you’ll trade. Texas alone succeeds anything that either the north or the west can offer.

You’re no southerner. You’re a transplant and the kind disdained by most real southerners – a critic that won’t move back. We see right through the type – however, we give you a measure of credit. Forgetting the glory stories of the north, you know a good thing when you see it and aren’t about to leave.

P.S. – Alabama, Georgia and North Carolina aren’t near as poor as you’ve been led to think. If you don’t believe me, take in a college football game this fall in the SEC and see the money. Wall Street would be envious. They don’t pay their coaches $5MM a year with nothing.

Now, I remember reading these a couple weeks ago. What’s interesting is that this can’t just be thrown out of court like other challenges because it involves the oath an officer takes and its bearing on legal orders.

Interesting in the least…

“A controversial suit brought by a U.S. Army reservist has been joined by a retired Army two-star general and an active reserve Air Force lieutenant colonel.
Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook filed the suit July 8 in federal court here asking for conscientious objector status and a preliminary injunction based upon his belief that President Barack Obama is not a natural-born citizen of the United States and is therefore ineligible to serve as president of the United States and commander-in-chief of the U.S. Armed Forces.

However, before the issue got to court, Cook’s orders to deploy to Afghanistan were revoked. Lt. Col. Maria Quon, a public affairs officer with the U.S. Army Human Resources Command-St. Louis, said Tuesday that Cook was no longer expected to report Wednesday to MacDill Air Force Base in Florida for mobilization to active duty. Cook, who claims he is now the victim of retaliation due to his suit, received his mobilization orders to report for active duty at MacDill on Wednesday. From there, he was to go to Fort Benning on Saturday for deployment to Afghanistan.”

I may be the only one in America still pushing for this, but I believe Obama never registered for selective service, not only making him ineligible to hold federal office, but a criminal.

We don’t need Obama’s permission in order to accomplish this – all we need is the selective service registration roles from 1979. That alone, would put this issue to bed if Obama is innocent as charged.

If not and he didn’t register for selective service, then I think he should be perp walked out of the Whitehouse like that worthless, racist Gates was perp walked to a Cambridge jail.

The thought of Obama actually getting to spend time in Leavenworth for a few years actually give goose pimples. How about you “R”? :twisted:

I knew my broad brush against Southerners would win me no friends among this crowd. Didn’t expect to be compared to Elric (LOL) but perhaps in this instance the shoe fits.

One reason the stats pissed me off is that the only thing I dislike more than stupidity is “proud stupidity” and that’s the vibe I get from the South. No doubt, living down there would give me a better perspective. Every time I’ve visited (Louisiana, Georgia, Texas and the marginally southern Florida) I’ve been treated with warmth and friendship. In fact, when I first visited Dallas, I was greeted so enthusiastically that I wondered what they were smoking. (That’s my northeast “heritage” where we wouldn’t pay you the time of day if you were choking on the street.)

So, while I won’t claim this post as one I’m most proud of, I would still very much like the South to get its PR together. My subject kinda says it all … isn’t it time they wanted to stop looking like dumb-asses?

Cash for Clunkers: I am amazed that there is this much agita over a program being too successful … so successful that the gov bureaucrats were unprepared for it. So let me get this right, when stuff doesn’t work at all, you guys are pissed. When it works way better than expected, you guys are pissed. No wonder you pledge allegiance to the do-nothing party of the GOP!

If you think the cash for clunkers was a success, then we are in trouble. It’s a boondoggle that is so mismanaged, the dealerships aren’t even sure they are going to get paid.

I’ll say it again. And you want these idiots running the health care in this industry. Yeah, do nothing would be far better than making it a government cluster f*ck, being 75% of Americans are perfectly happy with the system but realize that the cost escalation will be a problem. You’re still throwing the baby out with the bath water.

P.S. – that comment about Michelle was in retaliation for your dissing Sarah Palin. I’ve decided that every time her name is mentioned here, I will in turn pick some believed Dimmie hag to diss. :smile:

P:S.S – Glad you’re feeling well and got a new client to boot. Hopefully, the finances are looking up.

Greatly exaggerated only to the degree “R” that Republicans are bumbling fools – Obama is ripe for the picking. But you’ll note savvy pols like me aren’t writing him off; mainly because I trust the man about as far as a can throw him.

I think Obama so narcissistic, devious, and power hungry that along with his group of thugs like Emanuel, they would be willing to sell out the entire country if it meant them staying in position of authority – even if it means America ending as we know it or manufacturing some crisis getting people killed.

And know, I’m not kidding. I think this jacked booted group of thugs Obama hangs with that evil, that vicious, and that dangerous.

Like I’ve told many a Republican in all seriousness. This is the mob you are now dealing with – they should be treated as such.

In the wake of socialized medicine, there is only one way to judge C for C: The administration of the policy.

Yes, people respond to free money. Yes, the manipulation of pricing will effect demand.

Ignoring the ethics of yet another redistribution of wealth from one chosen group to another and ignoring some concerns that this program will have on the poor (the liquidation of affordable hoopties) how “right” did the government get it?

This is huge because we are being told to bet the farm on the government completely understanding the laws of supply and demand in medical care.

Successful foresight is key if the administration of socialized medicine isn’t to be a complete cluster fuck.

The miscalculation of demand in C for C was epic. And I mean epic. The logistical application of the program was a nightmare.

A fuck up on the order of C for C with penicillin, pace makers or, for that matter, available doctors, would be tragic.

The Dead Rabbit can not believe that this doesn’t concern you.

It must suck to be so blindly “on the team” that your critical thinking is absent. Too bad there are millions of you. Yes Men, all of you.

Also as a born in Detroit(er). Detroit and surrounding areas are the most segregated in the north. It isn’t about ones experience, it’s just a fact based of population statistics and historical data. However, comparing Detroit to the entire southern region makes no sense and one should know why.
Anyways, I can hardly trust one poll from a partisan group such as this. However I have an inclination that most polls would show similar data. Even though painting a broad brush is unfair, unfortunately in a country where the majority rules, politicians function on polls and the fact that polling data seems to validate many broad generalizations made about regions. I don’t see why it would be such a disappointment (or surprise) to point out that republican southerners would think such a thing.
Based on some comments made elsewhere on this blog and elsewhere in person, I’m assuming southerners paint broad generalizations about northerners too :P

If the majority “ruled” in this country Sensico, abortion would now be disallowed to a major degree, prayer would happen in public schools each day and it would be exclusively a Christian prayer, a black man wouldn’t be President, and there would definitely be something taught in conjunction with or as an alternative to the theory of evolution. And these just a few of the examples of the majority not ruling.

Another nonsensical statement (or is it non Sensico statement) that is factually incorrect. :wink:

LOL … hey Tex, this is isn’t the first time you’ve challenged a fellow netizen to a wager. Any chance you’ve made some trips to Gambler’s Anonymous? ;-)

P.S. On a completely trivial side note, I love how the casinos in CT have signs as you enter the building with phone numbers you can call to get “help”. What hypocrites. Kinda like a brothel posting doctor’s phone numbers out front in case you get herpes.

The miscalculation of demand in C for C was epic. And I mean epic. The logistical application of the program was a nightmare.

Well Rabbit, there is the old saying “it’s all in the execution” so I sympathize with your frustration on how things went down.

Still, I’d be curious to see a satisfaction survey of those who took advantage of C for C. Do they like what they got in the “trade”? Would they recommend further funding to continue the program?

By the way, Rabbit I lost track of whether it was you or your Dad who tried the swap. If it was you, why in heaven’s name would you trade in your gas guzzling truck …. doesn’t that vehicle add to your faux blue-collar street cred? ;-)

Rutherford: “P.S. On a completely trivial side note, I love how the casinos in CT have signs as you enter the building with phone numbers you can call to get “help”. What hypocrites. Kinda like a brothel posting doctor’s phone numbers out front in case you get herpes.”

My guess is that some progressive CT legislators forced the casinos to do that.

Tex and Elric are a study in contrasts. Elric posts a flurry of links all sound and fury signifying nothing. Tex posts eloquent assertions with no backup research. The two together might make a formidable foe. :-)

While “disproving” the birthers dignifies their argument in an undeserving way, I would like to point out one detail that all the experts on “certificate of live birth” vs “long form birth certificate” fail to address. There is an interesting non-legal document that no one wants to talk about … a good old fashioned birth announcement in a Hawaiian newspaper.

Quick aside to Elric … at the end of that video clip is a mention of the recent New Jersey bust which included several rabbis. Mmmm, don’t think there was a Muslim among those arrested. Guess the police must be falling down on the job since we know Muslims are behind all the evil in the world. Right? Oh, I’m sorry, I forgot … Muslims and Demo-Marxists. :-D

First, thanks for the research, thereby clearing the name of liberal legislators everywhere. ;-)

There are degrees of “commendability”. Is it commendable to put the Surgeon General’s warning on a pack of cigs so the addicted can’t say they weren’t warned? Don’t get me wrong, I’m no purist about gambling. I’d never favor wholesale outlawing of it. But to offer help to problem gamblers at the very source of their problem (the casino) still smacks of hypocrisy to me. Smells more like a way to look responsible while still feeding the habit that destroys the lives of those with the problem.

Regarding Obama and selective service, one thing is kind of amusing. Is it just me or is there a trend in this country of electing folks who’ve been accused of less than admirable military service to their country?

I recall Clinton had draft-dodger rumors floating about him. Bush 43 had some brouhaha about folks in high places keeping him from actually serving (I think in the National Guard?) and now of course Obama.

What a contrast from the days when many of our Presidents were not just former soldiers but reputed war heroes: Washington, Jackson, Harrison (the grandpa not the grandson), Taylor, Grant, etc.

I believe you would find a major of the country have the “color” of “white” skin. This was made with respect to Sensico’s nonsensical comment of the majority rule and had nothing to do with the cumulative vote, which obviously Obama won – largely do to the white (or is it causasian) race.

Note the number of references made to color of skin in one paragraph. I’m starting to sound like a lib and that scares me. :eek:

There is nobody that does the casinos better than my home grown state of Oklahoma (land of the red men). The name alone is politically incorrect.

Now I’ve argued this point with both political sides and never convinced either of them I’m right, but to finance the public largesse with a bad vice is the height of public policy. Not much different than most politicians really wishing we would “smoke up” truth be told so that we could increase the valuation of the public coffers.

In this case, I am in absolute agreement with you – hypocrisy of the entire nation at its finest. What they fail to tell you is the hidden cost of gambling which my mother experienced last week while dining at one. A lady approached her to hock her watch. :roll:

While you may disagree with my assessment, you should know that being the chicken I am, I never place a bet that isn’t a sure thing.

Here is but one link proving that most parents want something other than strictly evolution taught in science classrooms. While an atheist like you may vehemently disagree, it is a well established fact that the “majority” of parents would disagree with your assessment.

“By the way, Rabbit I lost track of whether it was you or your Dad who tried the swap. If it was you, why in heaven’s name would you trade in your gas guzzling truck …. doesn’t that vehicle add to your faux blue-collar street cred?”-Rutherford

I believe the mistake you and many of yours make, is that you assume when one claims they are a Christian, they are. My bet had nothing to do with over generalizations – it was a simple statement of fact of what is. You continue to hint at refutation, yet still have made no specific claim of my error.

A man named Obama comes to mind to respect of the above. While I am not worthy to be judge, you shall know them by their fruits. A man that apparently has little problem with viable babies being destroyed if only the head can remain inside the womb would appear to me to be one of little or no fruit. :wink:

Tex: Reading back on your comment about casinos in Oklahoma (BTW, awsome fact about the name I wasn’t aware of. Thanks for that.), I am curious if they sell those indian casinos on the public the same way they do here in CA.

Here, it goes like this. First, they tell us how bad this particular group of indians has had it. Then they tell us how the casino will make them better off. Then they push the “self-reliance” theme. And top it off with a big slice of “and our schools will benefit, too!” as the casino promises to give back to the local education.

I’m not really opposed to gambling or casinos, but I do want people to keep their promises as to intentions and effects, and I doubt any of the ones we hear are kept.

Tex: “I believe the mistake you and many of yours make, is that you assume when one claims they are a Christian, they are. My bet had nothing to do with over generalizations – it was a simple statement of fact of what is. You continue to hint at refutation, yet still have made no specific claim of my error”

Well if I am incorrect as to the logic you are using to base the rest of those claims, then you’re going to need to offer more proof than your willingness to wager. They are your claims. It’s not my responsibility to disprove claims made with no support.

As for what support you have managed to come up with, it is severly lacking. Most of it’s claims are coming from studies and polls done in the 70s and 80s. Some go back to the 50s. That might be nice proof of what people thought 20 or more years ago. Got anything from this century?

Sure – but you’re a little confused about debate rules as it requires a give and take. When you say I am wrong, it requires your input and your proof .

2008 work? Small demographic but it holds for most of the country.

Only 22 percent want public schools to teach an evolution-only curriculum, while 50 percent want only faith-based theories such as creationism or intelligent design, according to a new St. Petersburg Times survey.

In Oklahoma the running joke (and it is now not much of a joke anymore as it is happening) is that the Indians had it taken from them and now they are buying it back.

In Oklahoma, Indians have jurisdiction of much of the land – therefore exempt from many taxes. They buy off politicians with huge donations, give a small portion of the proceeds to bridges and roads, and bleed the stupid people of the state who don’t have basic math skills dry.

Tex: “Sure – but you’re a little confused about debate rules as it requires a give and take. When you say I am wrong, it requires your input and your proof .”

Then I guess all Rutherford has to say is “Yes Tex. Obama did register for the Selective Service.” and leave it to you to prove otherwise.

See how easy this is when you know the rules, Rutherford?

The give and take begins with the person making the claim giving some kind of support for that claim.

And again, what you’ve offered is nowhere near proof of anything except what a majority of Floridians feel. Yeah, it is from this century. But it is the findings from 1 state. According to Obama, there are 56 more.

“Most obviously, nearly 200 days into office, he has avoided making any horrific mistakes, especially in the fraught business of economic policy.”

The stock market is doing quite nicely. Several other “macro-economic” indicators were very positive this week. And everyone has always said the last thing to bounce back after a recession is job growth.

I actually found the Economist article pretty fair. I do believe Obama has farmed out too much to Pelosi who is an ultra-liberal’s wet dream. When it comes to health care in particular, I think the so-called blue dog democrats will save the day.

Nice to see Rabbit posting an article that does not call Obama the demon-seed, but rather presents a pretty balanced assessment of where things are.

Red Pill … the Gallup poll is to my mind, disturbing to say the least. I have no problem with evolution being taught as a theory since that is what it is. However, I’d have a hard time calling creationism a “theory”. It’s religion plain and simple.

It should not be lost on us that according to the poll the least educated of us (i,e. the most ignorant of us) would be upset if only evolution was taught in schools. That, to me, speaks volumes.

Rutherford, it also shows a difference along ideological lines. In fact, it shows more conservatives “would be upset if only evolution were taught” than those with HS or less education would be upset over it.

I think the section above that, which shows that people are really in favor of both being taught, is a better overall analysis. And actually goes more to the heart of what Tex said in his original comment.

Thanks Red – except I didn’t need the research as I was already aware of the results as I stated in my first post, and as you proved yourself wrong. No surprise, except that you would trouble yourself in doing so. I don’t know whether to thank you or laugh at you. Maybe a little or both.

I’m not quite sure why one would be so cocky in an admission of ignorance, but no matter. Like the kid who just got his nose bloodied and gets up looking for more ass whipping I suppose. :wink:

The stock market is doing quite nicely. Several other “macro-economic” indicators were very positive this week. And everyone has always said the last thing to bounce back after a recession is job growth.

Only a lib – change the paradigm and call it good. Rutherford, you remind me of the experts that were calling it a “bull” market when the stock market went from 6,500 to 8,000. Let’s see, the market down 35% from its high 18 months ago, unemployment near 10% with real unemployment closer to 15%, there are signs of hyper inflation, our dollar just reached a new yearly low, and we just had our fourth straight quarter of negative growth. Want to place a bet “R” on unemployment in six months?

What’s the old phrase? A million Elvis fans can’t be wrong? I agree it’s intellectually lazy to simply dismiss creationism but I would be much happier if there were a scientific theory to compete with evolution. I’m no expert, but I don’t know of one.

Tex, the only thing I know that might make me doubt evolution is that older human fossils are found all the time, making it a plausible possibility by extrapolation that “man” has “always” existed on this planet.

Still, I would like to know how creationists explain two phenomena. First, that as we gestate, we resemble different animals (I believe at one stage in fetal development, we actually have gills). Second, how do we account for the stunning similarity between simian body structure and our own? Did God say, “I’ll create man in my own image and while I’m at it, I’ll create a cute hairier version just for kicks.”

I sure as hell hope you didn’t call evolution a “hoax” on your medical school entrance application. If so, I’d like the names of all your med school’s graduates so I can make sure to avoid them if I ever get sick.

A 180 lb patient gets sick and loses 80 lbs. After some weeks of treatment, the patient starts gaining weight. At 120 lbs, doctors tell the patient that things are looking up. They don’t wait until the patient gets back to 180 to start being optimistic.

The fact that the Dow cracked 9000 is a positive sign. It’s an indication of increased investor confidence. How you can dismiss it simply because it’s not back to its peak, defies understanding. It’s almost as though the only way Obama can be successful is for you to wake up one day to find everything hunky dory. Sounds to me like you’re the one who wants him to be a miracle worker. ;-)

You breathe oxygen, don’t you? You perform cellular respiration if you’re alive. You process and synthesize insulin and glycogen? These are but a few examples of why genomes show similarity. What you call gills are pharyngeal slits – but the embryological development which develops, while phenotypical in appearance, is very different in actual development. Man is still an animal in the scientific sense and lives on the same earth – I just don’t by the “species” jumping as there is absolutely no record, no proof of this ever happening.

To answer your simian question, I’ll answer with a question for you in return where there is proof that can be tested and that is in the genome. Ask yourself this question Rutherford. If we descended from simians, why is that when the attempt is made to perform a xenograft (the transfer of tissue/organs from species to another), we have had far better luck using pig tissue than simian (ever heard of pig heart valves)? For example, when insulin was first manufactured, it was first derived from bovine (cows) with a difference of 3 amino acids in a 30 amino chain. Then it was discovered that porcine (pig) insulin was much closer to human insulin with only a one amino acid difference. Now it genetically manufactured.

I ask you this and I must get scientific for one moment, but the MHC gene is the most conserved gene known in “evolution”. Bear with me. Every cell in your body has surface markers that make you unique (except for identical twins). It is what your own immune system uses to determine self from foreign so that your own immune system doesn’t begin to destroy itself.

The incompatibility of the MHC gene (surface markers) is exactly what causes incompatibility in transplants and what is tested for before transplantation – the closer the match, the better the chances of transplantation – and even then, they compromise the immune system for a time with differing drugs until the body adapts.

I tell you all that to ask this. If that is the case, why couldn’t I make an even better argument that our closest living relative are pigs? We can argue fossil record similarities all day – but the genomes don’t lie.

As a side note “R”, with you and I being the same age, I’ll give you two blatant examples of just how wrong scientists were up to 30 years ago – I’m still waiting for explanation. You will remember from long ago that we were taught we descended from Neanderthal. However, mitochondrial DNA has now proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Neanderthals were apes and not human. And remember all of the talk of “JUNK” DNA? Well guess what? They’ve proven that the “junk” DNA is anything but and required for replication directions which they are only now discovering its purpose. You don’t hear much about that in the media, do you?

How is then we have sidestepped a number of deep recessions, the last being in 1982 which was every bit as bad as this one, without stimulus?

I say the stock market is up based on the perception that it simply dropped too far. You’ve heard of irrational exuberance? Well, I also believe we have irrational fear. You asked me some months back why I stayed in the market and if I was crazy? I believe I told you that I wasn’t convinced that Procter & Gamble, Johnson & Johnson, Exxon Mobil were 2/3 the companies that they were six months before. Just as I told you guys the oil price gouging had nothing to do with Bush and was sheer speculation, I also told you that the stock market drop of 50% was bogus. It was based on the financial markets, a drop in housing prices, a burgeoning debt load, and the fear of a loss of capital.

I grant you the market is up but I in no way think it has a thing to do with the stimulus, especially being only 10% of the monies have been released. This is the fact that corporate earnings aren’t as depressed as initially guessed. Obama’s methods only delayed the inevitable recovery which always happens but left us with a mountain of debt which we may not recover. Tex’s next big prediction is that within 24 months, you will begin to see inflation. This is 1976 all over again “R”.

Back to your statement for a minute about “older” fossils of man being found? I believe you have been incredibly misled by people with an agenda.

Ask yourself this. Forget the speculation of “older” fossils. Where is the proof of 20,000 year old fossils? Why is it we never hear of recent discoveries – only ancient ones millions of years old.

Nope, it appears to me “R” that man “magically” appeared on the scene sometime between 30-50K years ago, perhaps even after the last ice age some 13,000 years ago. Where’s the 100,000 year old fossils? The 50,000 year old fossils? Here’s another question. How is that humans develop so slowly, yet survived and thrived like no other species before it? Look at your daughter for a moment. She’s pretty helpless, isn’t she without you and your wife? No body covering, poor vision, hearing, strength, and smell in comparison to other animal species, slow afoot, little natural protection from the elements, develops much too slowly for a single birth species, long gestation period, requires constant nourishment. The only superior function she has is her brain. But in infancy, that’s not too keen either – and we don’t reach puberty for several years. Ever witnessed a four year old ape? Some of them are leading the pack

The development of man in comparison to the theory just doesn’t hold much water “R”. I could give a ton of examples, but these are just a few.

Here’s another question for the evolutionist. And I’ll keep these simple sense the scientific ones are too difficult to explain, much less answer.

Why hasn’t evolution conquered death? Why does it appear that we’ve been marked for death upon birth? For instance, your heart muscle doesn’t perform mitosis – therefore, it can’t repair itself. Surely a theory as steeped as evolution could have overcome this malady. Or why is that we age, our cells lose their ability to replicate? Why hasn’t evolution overcome that? For all our modern miracles, the only thing that has really prolonged life to an exponential degree is clean water and sanitation. It’s a pretty well established fact that no human body can operate beyond 120 years, even in the most perfect of circumstances.

This, http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052970204619004574324350084909302.html, from the CEO of Edmunds.com. In it, he basically destroys the program, pointing out that 1) it likely has not increased the number of vehicles sold, but rather compressed the timeframe of it, 2) increased the purchase cost of vehicles since inventories are down are manufacturers previouslt cut back on production, and 3), the prmise for this idea was to get gas guzzlers off the road, but it is likely to fail at that due to the shortage and price of hybrids and the like right now.

Subsidies don’t work for long term economic growth. YOu want to get the economy moving again- CUT TAXES.

…We have two wars, a crushing deficit, record unemployment and more than enough legitimate grounds for debate about the Obama administration’s policies, to spend even a minute on this insanity, second only in absurdity to the “Hollywood studio moonwalk” conspiracy. And once again, we can count on the South to lead the way in xenophobic, if not outright racist diversions…

Which is fully registering I guess. In this, R as much as admits that there are some serious issues with the Big O’s policies. Crushing deficit? Obama administration, more than anything else thus far- is known for deficits. Unemployment, far exceeds the doomsday estimates O used to scare people into signing the disasterous Stimulus bill.

Maybe people cling to this conspiracy because if it is true, then this may be the only way we can reverse the devestating policies enacted by this administration…

In the following fantastic commentary, HBO’s Bill Maher says, “In America there is no idea so patently absurd that it can’t catch on”. He goes on to say that foolishness like the Birther movement gains traction by “dummies talking to other dummies”.

This quote amused me “R”. I would think an educated man like you would recognize that in Bill Maher’s arrogance, he is one of the cynics that also is a dummy talking to other dummies when it comes to religion. In listening to Maher speak of religion or science, his own ignorance must be reinforced by those equally ignorant. Because in hearing him speak on the subjects that I’m familiar, he doesn’t even understand the basics to make rational arguments with anyone in the know.

So how is Bill Maher’s bigotry any different from the southern bigotry with which you speak? :question:

Tex,
your answer to the death and evolution question is easy, and I’m afraid given your claims that you’re training to be a doctor, not entirely genuine, because if you were taking so many courses in basic genetics, nutrition and birth and deathrate population controls, you’d know the answer.

Tex 82…it won’t take 24 months.
Evolution theory and schools. I’m not touching that one.
The South. Bad poll. America isn’t the sterling darling the jingoes want you to believe but it is still very much the greatest nation on this marble.
North South. Being from Boston I have to side with the Rabbit here.
R. Your post and comments in general in this thread. Ignorance is truly ugly but it can be cured. Arrogance is even uglier and those afflicted with it are not open to treatment. I have more respect for a southern Bible hugging dirt farmer who has the honesty to say he doesn’t like “them folks” than I ever will a northern pansy ass liberal PC turd. The former makes me a little sad the latter makes me angry. I love the people in the suburban enclaves that talk the talk about race,urban poverty yadda yadda but call the cops when they see a black guy walking down the street.
(btw I’m not calling you a turd)

Tex, all I was saying is that if you’ve been given extensive medical training you have the tools to figure out why evolution hasn’t “figured out how to conquer death.” Evolution is a logic complex with some basic rules, and whether or not you believe in evolution, you should be more than capable of figuring the answer out on your own following those basic rules. The answers are more numerous than is worth commenting upon in a comment string, especially with an anti-evolutionist who doesn’t want to argue the logic construct of the system, merely try to tear it down not even by tearing down the idea but by tearing down its supporters.

The first mistake you’ve made is in anthropomorphizing a logical complex – Evolution doesn’t have goals like “conquering death.” That’s like saying mathematics has a goal. and so on and so forth.

Finally, I’m pretty sure you know I don’t have ten grand, and any poker player knows the best way to win when you’re the chipleader is to make all the further bets on the table to rich for the other players. I really have no intent on playing such a game.

Oh, rest assured I have ten grand but I’m willing to play for a single grand, your ignorant analogy to math notwithstanding. Math has nothing to do with the biosphere of life I’m afraid – other than making your theory mathematically impossible in numerous ways, starting with the most basic of something from nothing, the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

I think Marc what I’m dealing with is a botanist student that has little knowledge of human physiology and is out of his league.

However, perhaps you can explain to me if evolution logically answers these questions about not conquering life, why hasn’t it evolved to remove the most basic of all instincts – self-preservation?

Why would there be a need to remove self-preservation? Wheres your logic behind that question. It doesn’t make sense anyways.
I have beaten this issue with a dead horse in college papers and I’m still waiting on a creationist to tell me where the real proof is for “creationism” or Intelligent Design. The amount of evidence for creationism is minuscule compared to the proof for evolution, and that’s not even taking into account that the so called proof for creationism can be debunked and thus not really proof.
Evolution is a scientific theory, Creationism is a religious theory. If people want their kids to learn a religious theory then they can homeschool or go to a private religious school. Public schools should be off limits for this.

If you only knew how ignorant that last comment was, you’d be too ashamed to show back up. Therefore, with your own history I’ve witnessed, you’ll hang around all day.

The proof for creationism is this simple – you’re living in it. The odds of your theory being correct are mathematically impossible a hundred times over in a hundred different ways. And I’ll guarantee you can’t even begin to answer the most basic of questions. There is no proof of macro evolution – none. Even the parts that scientists attempt to use like the fossil record are a jumbled mess and continually proven wrong. You attempt to explain it with mutation, never mentioning virtually all mutations are deleterious – so the mathematical probability doesn’t even support your only basic theory.

And I hate to tell you this, but your statement about self preservation only justified my question concerning why everything is marked for death. If evolution is adapting to one’s environment, the very first adaptation would be the requirement for survival.

Let me attempt (and you won’t get this either) exactly what the theory of evolution is attempting to do. Why it is necessary for your ilk and why you are so adamantly opposed to the alternative. It is making a valid but futile attempt to explain the natural without the supernatural intertwined and away God – nothing more. The theory is nothing but wild speculation that should be laughed at without intervention. You, the proposed scholars, the Marc’s of the world, and the rest of the academia bunch simply are not prepared to face the ramifications of science not being able to explain the supernatural.

Like I have said here before and it bears repeating. By your own scientific methods, the universe is both finite and supernatural – that is something from nothingness. And that by definition is not natural but supernatural – there are absolutely no physical constructs to explain it. Therefore, your science is rendered moot before it even starts.

If you were really so sure of your logic, your science, and your scientific methods, there would be no need to silence the voices as is now being done. Ben Stein exposed the hypocrisy beautifully and twisted the most renowned living atheist like a pretzel – to the point of Dawkins trying to explain the holes with little green men.

I was going to make a joke that the reason the Dead Rabbit is treading carefully in this debate is that he would end up sounding like sensico. However, since the village idiot has made her appearance, I guess other morons like Dead Rabbit now have license to pipe off.

Rabbit’s take:

1. Evolutionary theory is very compelling. However, evolutionary theorists are very defensive about the many gaps. Why is that? In quantum physics we all have fun with odd shit that doesn’t add up.

2. Creationism is not a scientific theory. One of the biggest mistakes I feel Christians make is constantly jumping into scientific arguments so much. Faith should lead the way. I used to work with a guy who constantly gave me these pseudo-scientific books trying to “prove” Jesus was the Son of God. If I was a believer and I found hard scientific evidence for Christ as the Son of God I think I’d be a little bit depressed. It would take away the most special part of being a Christian, the leap of Faith.

3. Strangely enough, I have found a way to teach both Creationism and Evolution. I tell the youngins they don’t have to believe a thing I ever say. Just know it on the damn test. We cover Creationism with the history of Christianity, Evolution on the chapter on the development of early man. We even cover Intelligent Design in my AP Euro class when Descartes and others come up.

4. The problem I have with teaching Creationism along side of Evolution is the Pandora’s Box it creates. If Creationism, why not the following theories?

a. Guided Evolution (God’s work IS evolution)

b. Intelligent Design of the Intelligent Designer. Mormons
believe that God was once mortal and created by another God)

c. Each black hole produces a new universe that itself creates more complicated entities capable of self awareness

d. Cycles of creation Hindu style

e. ET seeded earth

f. It’s all the matrix, all a simulation

Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Do teachers who cover evolution skip the gaps? Inexcusably, yes. And they do so in a very cocky manner at times too, because they are idiot lap dogs. That being said, except in the context of the history of religion, teaching creationism is impossible. It’s simply not provable or disprovable. Same with intelligent design (which hold’s a ton of weight with the Rabbit)

Lastly, I wonder when the day came that public education was held to such a standard that the very essence of life was to be explained in a way that makes everyone happy. For the love of God, we’re trying to improve math scores here. If you believe in Creationism and not evolution, open your kid’s science book and point out the holes in the damn theory. Parents are the real teachers.

“The amount of evidence for creationism is minuscule compared to the proof for evolution, and that’s not even taking into account that the so called proof for creationism can be debunked and thus not really proof.”-sensico

I have a question of curiosity. You say you believe in God? Which God?

Because to deny creationism is to call the Bible a liar. To call the Bible a liar, is to call Jesus a liar. To call Jesus a liar, then you must call Christianity a liar. So which is it? DId God make the universe with divine intervention, or did He not?

See, I don’t think anybody on this board (besides maybe Wickle) can even explain what Creationism means. And as I’ve proven, I can poke holes in the theory of evolution and not leave the constructs of mammalian biology.

I haven’t even got to the really juicy questions yet. I’ve kept it a a very high level (besides maybe the explained of the major histocompatibility complex.

Tex: “Thanks Red – except I didn’t need the research as I was already aware of the results as I stated in my first post, and as you proved yourself wrong. No surprise, except that you would trouble yourself in doing so. I don’t know whether to thank you or laugh at you. Maybe a little or both.”

You may not have needed the research for yourself, but that didn’t stop you from offerring those 2 ridiculous links as supposed proof when challenged. Did you even read the garbage you were offering, or just link the first things that showed up on Google?

I hope you do better research in med school.

And I only proved 2 of your 4 points. I also disproved 1 of them, and Rutherford disproved the other. Because that BS excuse you gave to justify your comment about the majority and Obama is just plain stupid. Especially when you claim that same logic isn’t what you were using for the other 3 points.

Face it, Tex. You made a blanket statement, and was incapable of supporting even 1 of your 4 claims when you were challenged to do so. The only thing that proved you even half correct was me taking the time to do your work for you.

Tex,
I am a firm believer in creationism and literal interpretation of the Bible. But not believing these things doesn’t keep you from being a Christian. To be a Christian you must believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that he died and rose again to forgive sins, and to recieve forgiveness of sins you must be repentant for them and ask for forgiveness.

Not believing in a literal interpretation of the Bible doesn’t stop you from being a Christian, but it does make it easier for Satan’s attacks.

I have a question for those who believe we derived from apes. It’s partly done in humor – partly done to prove a point about the lucidity of believing we are direct descendants.

Why are human females the only mammals with a regular menstrual cycle? Wouldn’t follow that female simians would experience the same “benefit”? I mean, the female chimps being close to human and all? :smile:

I’m a firm believer in the Bible. I”m also a firm believer some of it allegorical as I can easily prove from scripture.

Don’t mistake the I believe the world made in six days. I don’t. Don’t believe that I believe that the lineage of Adam to Abraham listed as complete. I don’t. I do believe the lineage from Abraham to Christ complete.

Neither of these change the truth of the Word. It is not a history book, nor a book of science – and it wasn’t intended to be.

You are correct. It is a book of Salvation. So I obviously believe like you do, but not in the literal sense; at least what many here believe in the literal sense.

I was just thinking to myself perhaps Rutherford, the incomparably brilliant Pill, or Marc can explain these funny yet very apparent differences in physiology? This is a huge difference – they way we produce offspring that is.

I mean, the menstrual basic to procreation. It would appear to me that the simians have far more in common with the canines than they do us. I can provide far more examples. Ever seen a mammal besides us that can do it in the missionary position? I’ll save you the trouble of looking it up. They can’t. :lol:

Let me help you out with something else. You can’t count. In one sentence, you say I was correct once. Then in the next sentence, you said you proved me right twice. I let that one pass but since you’re an asshole, I think I’ll start proving how ignorant you are.

Rutherford misunderstood and therefore I was right about that one too as I explained to him without challenge (see above). Now that makes three out of four that I was right – so which one was I wrong about MacDaddy?

lol…There has been no sex in the Rabbit household for at least 6 weeks. Feeling is kind of mutual. It just doesn’t seem right. The little Rabbit is moving non stop. I can see it, plain as day. It turns me off.

Ah, I see spelling professor Tex has returned. I guess the owner of this blog can just fuck off, since he has already had to ask you twice not to engage in such pettiness.

“Type it in Word to lot brighter.”

What does that even mean? Is that some secret wording that only med school students are privy to?

And because Rutherford didn’t challenge your bullshit logic, that means you were right? Then I will solve that problem and challenge it.

Let’s revisit that moronic and weak defense.

“I believe you would find a major of the country have the “color” of “white” skin. This was made with respect to Sensico’s nonsensical comment of the majority rule and had nothing to do with the cumulative vote, which obviously Obama won – largely do to the white (or is it causasian) race.”

You use this bullshit to defend your statement that if the majority ruled then we would not have a black president. It’s even worse than the dumbass links you tried to offer.

The majority that happens to be white did rule. And they decided they wanted this black man as their president. Don’t tell me I have to pull up research for that, too.

Abortion was the other thing my research proved you wrong on. If you bothered to click the link, rather than worrying about how people spell things, you might have seen that.

Now to get to your ignorant comment about medical school so you don’t look anymore the bumbling, half-educated fool, here is how the curriculum works. Get this through your fat head that it is required for all students.

All medical students attend two years of classroom, then take board certification. After the first year, some students do research in join curriculum. It is neither mandatory nor common, except for in the cases of people with a dual major of PHD – and then, only one or the other at a time. Are you with me so far genius? The research is completed by the AMA and company. We are there to learn medicine – not how to google better. The next two years, each student rotates in clinical positions. During this time, a professional specialty will be chosen. You then take the second set of boards. Upon passing and completion, you’re now considered a doctor. But then you have anywhere from 3-7 years of residency required – and many require board certification again thereafter. Some students, me included, have obtained an MBA in conjunction with the medical admittance, but they are not worked on in unison. Still with me Dr. Google?

I can’t believe I am having to explain this to an insecure nitwit who believes in the talent of googling as the ultimate in wisdom; one who wouldn’t know the corridors of a medical school if somebody branded a name of the university onto his fat ass. Here is why my links not more proficient Red – I thought all of my statements common knowledge and frankly ain’t going to waste my time trying to find a Gallup poll to substantiate my claims. I let low level clerks do my work for me. :wink:

Go take your statins, grab a spell checker and cool down a bit before you blow a gasket so I don’t feel guilty about pushing over the edge. :evil:

Sensico says “Evolution is a scientific theory, Creationism is a religious theory. If people want their kids to learn a religious theory then they can homeschool or go to a private religious school. Public schools should be off limits for this.”

“The amount of evidence for creationism is minuscule compared to the proof for evolution, and that’s not even taking into account that the so called proof for creationism can be debunked and thus not really proof.”

Rabbit, if that statement is too complex for you then I won’t waste my time. but I have a feeling you can’t understand it because you don’t want to see a different point of view.

I’ll not address some of the other ignorant statements here individually. Theres many things I won’t waste my time on. One of them is constantly arguing with people whos only point is that the facts are only in the bible.
I am fine with people and their religion but imposing literal interpretations of the bible on other people’s kids are wrong. Lets not deny the constitution just because you want this one thing to be taught in school.

If people want their kids to learn a religious theory then they can homeschool or go to a private religious school. Public schools should be off limits for this.”

And I say: BRAV-FRIGGIN-O !!!!!

Except we did this, followed by your public school system going to hell. What once was the envy of the free world is now a pile of cow shit. Now the cry from the left is that we are again being unfair and that homeschooling is wrong and should be discontinued.

We gave you more money for each student as we still pay our taxes, and yet your performance has been abysmal, including sinking all the way to the bottom in aggregate with respect to math and science of the industrialized countries.

Damn, it would be funny if this turned out not to be a hoax…Rutherford, I would personally fly up and buy you a soft drink so we could make a toast to our lasting friendship and Obama’s swift boot out of the office. Not as good as being perp walked out of the Whitehouse in handcuffs, but almost as good. :wink:

“Rabbit, if that statement is too complex for you then I won’t waste my time. but I have a feeling you can’t understand it because you don’t want to see a different point of view.”-sensico

The problem with you sensico is that you don’t read what people say. How is my point of view different then yours? You won’t answer that. No, you show up here, and torture us with bland, sweeping statements that honestly don’t make much sense.

Much like your sheltered life given to you by Mommy and Daddy. Absolutely oblivious to the world, you will go on blogging while people like Daddy and Rutherford and your friends tell you how smart you are. Your writing fucking sucks. 50% of your sentences literally don’t make sense and we are forced to infer their meaning. Why do you think your blog (financed by Daddy I bet) attracts just one or two sycophants top?

Try to improve your game. Trust me, the minute you leave Mommy and Daddy’s, there will be other Rabbits waiting to call you out.

Hey sensico…I see you were tweeting about your new car. Congrats girlfriend! I bet you did super duper good this semester for Mommy to buy those new wheels.

You know what, every time your writing is convoluted, I’m going to call you out. It makes no difference if I agree with what I dare guess your saying.

No, you show up here, and torture us with bland, sweeping statements that honestly don’t make much sense.

AMEN!

Absolutely oblivious to the world, you will go on blogging while people like Daddy and Rutherford and your friends tell you how smart you are. Your writing fucking sucks. 50% of your sentences literally don’t make sense and we are forced to infer their meaning.

I think I’m acting out due to my lack of intellectual ability to take part in the current discussion.

As usual, you play yourself cheap, Rabbit. Your comments earlier concerning evolution vs creationism were right on the mark.

Tex, you ask too much of evolution. Because we die, therefore evolution is a sham? Even you have to admit that’s not very intellectually rigorous of you. Animals (except perhaps lemmings) have a strong survival instinct and avoid death at all costs. Humans aren’t much different. I’ve watched three relatives die in the past five years and each of them fought to the bitter end, even when entire systems were shutting down, they refused to give in to the reaper. That is a strong survival instinct. Is it the consequence of evolution? Not necessarily. I just don’t think death factors into a discussion of the worth of the evolutionary theory.

Also one of your earlier comments puzzled me. You seem to have been implying that my assertion that older human fossils are found every day was my attempt to prove evolution. You got it backward. I was saying that is one piece of evidence that casts doubt on evolution.

I believe Rabbit said it best … creationism is a matter of faith not science, and it has no business being taught alongside science. Teach it in an anthropology class or a history of religion class. But not in a science class.

LOL regarding the video in comment 127 by Rabbit …. it always amazes me that there are places in this country with no black people! :-)

Not a lot of young folks in this crowd either.

Folks talking about being taxed when no one is planning to tax them in the first place …. oops, my bad … I’m making the unfair assumption that there are no millionaires in that crowd.

I’ve never seen people so irrationally scared in my life. What the heck is going on? Have we lost all reason? Damn, if I were a congressman right now, I wouldn’t be caught dead giving a town hall meeting, until all the water supply systems get checked. :-(

P.S. Some dude talks about us “all being in this together” only minutes after one of his neighbors says he doesn’t want his money paying for someone else’s healthcare. Yeah, that a spirit of togetherness alright!

I assume from this picture that Sergeant Crowley is the bad guy in this measure “R”?

It’s easy to be a gentleman once your ego is in check. I’ve never said Crowley was a terrible man. I said that I agreed with the Pres that he acted stupidly … and he acted stupidly out of ego. I also said the Pres should not have made his opinion known.

“The amount of evidence for creationism is minuscule compared to the proof for evolution, and that’s not even taking into account that the so called proof for creationism can be debunked and thus not really proof.”

Rabbit, I honestly don’t see what is so puzzling about Sensico’s statement. She passed on explaining it (hey Sensico, pride goeth before the fall, dear) but I’ll take an easy crack at it.

1. There is more scientific evidence for evolution than creationism.
2. What little evidence there is of creationism is so flimsy that it cannot truly be called evidence at all.

Now you can agree or disagree with assertions 1 and 2 but I don’t think it’s hard to pull those assertions out of Sensico’s statement.

(P.S. Sensico, If I’m reading you wrong then I would like you to set the record straight.)

P.P.S. I think Rabbit and Sensico are fundamentally on the same side of this argument. Damn, even the folks who agree with one another on this blog get into a snit! :-(

Ask, too much of evolution? How can I ask too much of evolution when it contradicts its own definition? Evolution in a nutshell is the best adaptation to an environment – and according to evolutionists, this is done by a series of mutations (nobody could ever explain to me how random events apparently get lucky enough to meet this changes since there is no intelligence or design remember) allowing a creature or entity an advantage. They make up names like “punctuated equilibrium” when the theory falls apart and start the entire process of the big lie.

So mine is a very simple question. Since survival is the most primitive form of instinct and by definition part of the evolution equation, why after countless of eons has it not performed better at self-preservation? Why is it that everything born marked for death? Surely, this is would be priority number one for any living cell.

Very simple question which someone like Marc challenged as a simple answer, yet you’ll note there was no answer. I believe you have it backwards “R” as your theory the “pinnacle” of intellectual laziness. First, you can’t explain how you get matter from nothing. Second, you can’t explain the formation of the first cell. Third, even given the required ingredients, you can’t create life in a lab. Fourth, you can’t explain how the organelles happened to come together very close to simultaneously (actually it would require instantly) to make a functional cell. Fifth, you can’t explain how a single cell was somehow able to create RNA, then DNA. Sixth, you have to make huge leaps of speculation about phylums which apparently magically appeared some 400MM years ago, leading to diversity where there is little proof. Seventh, you can’t answer the most basic of questions about how things like how cell signaling evolved or what the order of its own evolution. Eight, there is little genetic proof contrary to the popular opinion you read on the net and see on TV. I could go on ad nauseam about huge holes in wild speculation that masquerades as theory.

But here should be the first criticism even by atheistic scientists. It is contrary to the scientific method. Remember back to your statistical analysis and the null hypothesis? Every good science has to start with a degree of rational doubt.

Instead, evolution starts with sheer speculation and ask you cast away your doubts, then calling itself a theory. It itself requires a large degree of faith without any evidence.

LIke I said, this argument has little to do with science and a lot with the ramifications of not being able to face the questions that science can’t answer, because that leads to an admittance that there is something more. And this has led to a great deal of dishonesty, especially in academia.

It is popular amongst generally the academic left, but even people who should know better, to demonize any alternative to the popular myth called evolution and call it “Creationism” to mask the stench of fascism in attempting to silence the voices. Note the always predictable visceral reaction.

My problem with your theory is that any criticism of evolution is conveniently skipped, huge leaps in logic required without question, and the critics voices squelched in the name of political correctness. These academicians are the biggest cowards and hypocrites on earth and terrified of being challenged.

You’re an educated man “R”. You know this. And if you were honest, you would readily admit that. :wink:

I find it hilarious that someone who has lived and will live for the remainder of their days in a universe with agreed to finite origins would say there is no proof of creationism. Obviously the universe was created somehow.

That ranks right up there in either complete stupidity, woeful dishonesty, or the height or rebellion. It’s like having to refer to a baby as a fetus to pacify one’s justification of abortion, when the etymology of the word fetus for anybody half interested means “suckling” mammal. Or making mention of a belief in God and then denying His works.

The shallowness of the internet and its contributors “believing themselves wise” continues to amuse me. :smile”

First, yes you’re right Rutherford.
Rabbit, I guess this is the part where I’m supposed to cry over your little comment. First, my blog does not attract 1 to 2 visitors, do you have proof for that assertion because, I won $150 at the casino today, I’m feeling lucky and I’d like to bet you a million that you’re wrong.
Wordpress.com blogs are free and thus doesn’t need financing. My dad bought me a used car, and I’m paying my own insurance and half the note and repairs (I’ll admit I’m not that best driver). If you’re a little bitter that my life is much easy going compared to yours then so be it, I have no time to think about why you hate my life.
And if we’re on the same side on this issue then fine but my statement wasn’t hard to understand. I honestly don’t have the time to read 100+ comments, I read a few and make a statement on what I think.
Where’s your blog btw, cause I’d love to see how you write. Beside a couple people who like to act as the grammar police, I haven’t had negative comments about my writing. You’re more than welcome to go through all 756 of my blog post and highlight my grammar and/or spelling errors.

You may very well posses an average intellect. The problem is, we can’t tell.

You come here and drop a comment like a sea gull drops white blobs on the Mackinaw Bridge. Splat. And then off you soar.

No doubt, this may be the Deadwood of blogs. A bunch of verbal gunslingers that in the end aren’t even good shots. But, your ideas will get tested here. And that, my lady, is something your not interested in. After all, that would make you leave your comfort zone and actually think!

Everything in existence must have been created.
Thus, all things in existence have a creator.
The universe exists, thus a creator of the universe also exists

If creation is essential to existence, then who created God?

I suppose you could say God is so omnipotent He can’t be inserted into our simple logic. Fair enough.

If God is outside the bounds of inductive reasoning (science) and deductive reasoning (logic) how the hell does a science or math teacher address God? That’s me and my buddy, sensico’s point.

______________________________________________

“Why after countless of eons has it not performed better at self-preservation?”-Tex

Devils advocate. But, life has never went out of existence since it began. That’s solid self-preservation.

Your point about the beginnings of life is powerful. Truly amazing. There is nothing in evolutionary theory explaining that one.

The only answer I think I have ever heard on that one deals with the universe being truly infinite. If that is the case, then I suppose Mathematically, the preposterous scenario you described that would be essential to the beginning of life could happen. Kind of like a Monkey randomly typing on a keyboard for infinity would eventually write War and Peace. I’m not endorsing this argument, just parroting it.

aw, looks like someones a widdle mad cause of the way I comment. Ha! all the more reason to continue.
In the future I’ll attempt to comment on this blog the way rabbit wants me too, which entails reading his 50 comments, answering all his meaningless question, whilst being nice and writing in a way that satisfies him.
Anymore rules you’d like to layout for me and everyone here. Maybe Rutherford can post it as a warning that you must read and respond to every comment here and write with much grace as Rabbit.

Devils advocate. But, life has never went out of existence since it began. That’s solid self-preservation.

Actually, most species have gone out of existence – the record of lineage in preservation is poor; very poor. Don’t you continue to hear the mantra of extinction for so many species from the tree huggers? For instance, in that “magical evolutionary moment” which nobody can explain because to evolve by definition doesn’t happen in the immediate, and was called the Cambrian explosion, there were more classes of animal and plant that have ever existed. So that tree of life you see shown in classrooms actually should be turned upside down to be more accurate – that or most of the limbs are dead.

In addition, what you define is not self-preservation is nothing of the sort. Self explains why – in fact, there is no living record of self-preservation for something stretching more than a few thousand years, and only then a tree. For a living species, 200 years max.

I’m not asking math teachers to teach anything but math. But I am asking, no demanding, that science teachers provide the controversial and unexplainable aspects in the weakness of the popular theory. If you want to call that religion, creationism, or a host of perfunctory terms, be my guest. But you would be wrong in defining it as such.

Tex, I think you are absolutely right that evolution must be taught as theory not fact. I think it’s funny that you used the word “speculation” in several of your comments. Isn’t a theory, by definition, fed by some speculation … albeit speculation backed up by some scientific rigor.

You would appreciate the conversation I used to have with my mother. She would say, “mankind and the earth always have been and always will be.” I’d retort, “you realize that makes you religious.” And she’d answer, illogically by my estimation, “no it doesn’t”.

I suppose there is a reason why we have the mathematical notion of infinity. Maybe, just maybe, life is infinite, and all this talk of big bangs, or God creating stuff in 7 days, is just a measure of how our brains are incapable of conceptualizing infinity?

Oh by the way, I want to reiterate Rabbit’s point earlier: If we teach intelligent design along side evolution, then what else do we throw into the mix? Aliens planting the seed of life on this planet? Who decides which “theory” is worth pursuing and which one is patently preposterous?

I’d be content with folks admitting the shortcomings of evolution, rather than claiming it as the end-all premise. To me, it seems the efforts to demonize creatism means over emphasizing the strengths, and certainly ignoring the faults or gaps, of evolution.

Personally, I tend to believe in a combination of the two. Life is too complex to have been created out of nothing without some semblance of intelligent design, but I do believe in the notion of evolution- though not the fantastic leaps of ape-to-man, etc.

Who knows, but I’d respect more the community if it was honest with itself on what it knows and didn’t get too defensive.

There isn’t a consensus in the community on global warming, but anyone who questions it, more to the point, questions man’s role in it is destroyed as a freak or fraud. Last I checked Al Gore wasn’t a scientist (or all that intelligent) and though he may have created the internet (what a twit to claim that) he’s way out of his league on this. Wasn’t it the UK that threw out his movie and book because there were too many factual errors in them!

Yet here we are, rushing through legislation to “contain” a problem that hasn’t even been confirmed or understood. Aside from the enormous waste in money and resources and the potential loss of life at development retardation, we’ve got knuckle heads considering ways to alter the environment so as to “reverse” global warming. Stupid.

In the ’70s, we were warned by the same idiots claiming global warming that we were about to enter an ice age…

A theory is a precept that can be readily tested. While I grant that some parts of proposed evolution lend themselves to this, most don’t. I don’t know how you can’t call these wild leaps of thought without any definitive facts anything but speculation.

To answer Rabbit’s question about who created God, I believe that while Rabbit was not intending to, he has shown the arrogance of man. That is, man believing himself the highest order of things when it is obvious to me in the vastness of the cosmos, we aren’t even remotely close.

If you believe in the concept of a Creator like I do, then it should also be obvious that God not only created space and matter, but time. Therefore, a Creator would not be bound by the same rules and limitations that we are. We have a linear thought process but God does not. We don’t understand the concept of no beginning and no end because we aren’t capable. As the Bible says, “My thoughts are not your thoughts, and my ways not your ways.”

Believe as you must. I believe your ideas inherently weak, though I give you credit “R” for not taking the tyrannical stance most libs take in the mere mention of a Creator. For that I am grateful, and I thank you for allowing me the medium to express my opinions.

And for that, I hope life blesses you. You’ve been very generous with your time and it is a shame that we couldn’t meet face to face. I believe we could have some interesting conversations. :smile:

Rabbit and any of the other detractors of faith here. This is directed at Rabbit, but it could apply to anyone.

I want you to give consideration to something for your old blog buddy Tex in the coming weeks, as I will be signing off for the most part as I return back to finish what I started and won’t be frequenting as much. I would like to say the pleasure has been mine in our discussions.

In the coming weeks, your wife will go into labor. All of us pray that you and your wife receive a healthy baby, with the statistical odds very much in your favor.

If your wife delivers vaginally, there will be period of time (usually) where intense labor proceeds and you are left with nothing to do but ‘coach’. It was my experience that coaching pretty much goes out the window at the first sign of intense labor pain.

During that period, I want you to set this to memory. If you are like me, you will be left with a feeling of not only utter astonishment at what you witness, but an absolute feeling of helplessness. For all of your physical strength, there will be absolutely nothing you can do to help but provide encouragement. And if you are like me, that will seem completely inadequate. What you are left with is simple faith that everything is going to be okay. Even the doctor in charge will be powerless to do much of anything for the baby’s health besides assisting the means for the baby to arrive.

I tell you this because at the point of death, I am guessing that is exactly of what we will experience again. There will be little the miracles of medical science can do, and we are left with the feeling of helplessness. At that time, simple faith and a hope will be all we have.

I believe you have two choices: (1) You can hope for continuance in ways you and I can’t possibly comprehend; (2) you can resign yourself to this is all there is. I ask you, which would you prefer? Because you will be left with that question, and what you do and how you believe in the here and now will determine how you meet that certain fate.

Just give some thought to what I am saying sometime from someone that cares. I would tell Rutherford the same, but I am convinced that his beliefs to ingrained, his skepticism too deep, his life experiences contrary, his cynicism has hardened his heart to the point of no recovery. I “hope” I am wrong.

Curator, no straw man in the least. You should reread the definition. It may be begging the question, though.

I ask that because you obviously are bright. But one can be bright and still be clueless. So I am asking you what you put your experience in that would convince you these “scientists” that you trust can accurately predict anything?

(AP) The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration maintained its estimate that three to five of the hurricanes will be major storms of Category 3 strength or stronger. The original report forecast up to 17 tropical storms, with up to 10 becoming hurricanes.

There were at least half a dozen scientific studies in the 70s claiming a coming ice age, so no, it wasn’t just some media claim.

And warming now?

“Disconcerting as it may be to true believers in global warming,” he explains, “the average temperature on earth has remained steady or slowly declined during the past decade, despite the continued increase in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, and now the global temperature is falling precipitously.

“All four agencies that track earth’s temperature [the Hadley Climate Research Unit in Britain, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, the Christy group at the University of Alabama, and Remote Sensing Systems Inc in California] report that it cooled by about 0.7 C in 2007.” This, he says is “the fastest temperature change in the instrumental record and it puts us back where we were in 1930. If the temperature does not soon recover, we will have to conclude that global warming is over.”

I’ve seen as many articles going to warmer as I’ve seen going for cooler. Still begs the question- what is causing it? Until we know, which we do not, then it is a bit presumptuous to think we can stop it…

Tex: The original report forecast up to 17 tropical storms, with up to 10 becoming hurricanes.

As I said we we ended with 15 named tropical storms and 6 hurricanes. Still a busier-than-average season. I don’t see how this is “hopelessly wrong”, and nowhere can I find that NOAA predicted a “severe hurricane season”. All I can find is they said 2007 will “be above normal” or “active”.

Do you routinely make shit up?

On average, there are 10 named Atlantic storms and six hurricanes, three of them major.

For one that claims intellectual superiority, let me state for the record that your posts a little lite. From your own information garnered dickhead, here is the first paragraph:

NEW YORK (Reuters) -The 2007 hurricane season may be less severe than forecast due to cooler-than-expected water temperatures in the tropical Atlantic, private forecaster WSI Corp said on Tuesday.>

I recall soon after Katrina (about six months) in 2006, and again in 2007, the National Hurricane Center having to revise their own forecasts because they had predicted a severe hurricane season (we won’t even talk about how wrong they were last year) after your “global warming” scholars had predicted the changed weather patterns soon to bring calamity upon us all. I’m still waiting.

I don’t even need to pull a Red Pill and do ‘scholastic’ googling to remember that horseshit.

What part of severe did you not grasp the first time? And you still haven’t answered my questions genius.

This roofing stuff is going to kill me. I may have heat exhaustion right now, as my lips are slightly paralyzed. (The last time that happened I ended up on an ambulance, but I’m home now, in the air conditioning)

I used to have too much pride to ever take a solo break. But today, for the first time I can ever remember, I had to go to the ground and sit for 10 minutes while everyone worked. Honestly, I think it saved me.

These firefighters I work with stay up all night putting out major fires and then show up and out work me. Some of them are well over 40 too. I could tell they thought I was being a bit of a pussy.

I am half the man I used to be. I’m not sure the 150 bucks and the silly blue collar street cred is worth this bull shit anymore.

Tex, I read what you said about being helpless. It’s weird you brought that up becuase I’ve been giving that a lot of thought lately. I have a phobia of helplessness.

Reread the first post then dummy. Here let me help you – you may not be smart enough to click on a link:

(AP) U.S. government forecasters minimally reduced their prediction for the Atlantic hurricane season Thursday, but said that up to nine hurricanes and up to 16 tropical storms are expected to form, still a busier-than-average season.

———————————————————————–

Start here dumbass ↓↓↓↓↓

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration maintained its estimate that three to five of the hurricanes will be major storms of Category 3 strength or stronger. The original report forecast up to 17 tropical storms, with up to 10 becoming hurricanes.

To here dumbass ↑↑↑↑↑

Despite the slight reductions and a harmless season so far, NOAA said atmospheric and oceanic conditions mean that the season likely will be more active than normal. On average, there are 10 named Atlantic storms and six hurricanes, three of them major.

————————————————————

The 2007 hurricane system was nothing out of the norm Curator. Where’s the catastrophe you and your worthless ilk keep forecasting due to the dynamic warming of the earth? These are normal weather cycles and nothing more.

What are you doing? Blowing Al? And chickenshit, you still haven’t answered my questions.

Let me tell you something Rabbit, not that you need a pep talk from me …
You teach kids. There are few professions as noble as that. You may be losing your roofing chops but hell, if you’re making the difference between even one kid being a dumbf*ck vs being a thinking intelligent contributor to society than you have nothing to regret. In my book it makes you 100% man.

I could have done it from the keypad if I were still on the desktop and if I could have remembered the old ASCII codes. Since I wasn’t and I couldn’t, I switched over to Word and copied them in. In otherwords, I cheated. :shock:

May be the only thing left I remember that you don’t that I can help you with – I’m afraid your technical skills have now blown right by mine. May have been better to begin with anyway – but there was a time I was pretty good at kicking out code.

Those were the days. You ever do any mainframe programming back in the good old 80s?

Tex, I am going to try to tread lightly here first because I don’t wish for my comment to intrude on what probably should be a private dialog between you and Rabbit and second, because I know you are speaking from your heart.

One theme that I have noticed when you write about religion is religion’s connection to death. I get the distinct impression from what you write that a major benefit of religion is that we do not need to fear death. We do not need to feel “helpless” as you put it. There is an implication that only those who have accepted Christ as their savior will have a peaceful death. Now I know it’s wrong of me to apply logic to religion but if religion obeys the natural logic of the universe, then either there is an afterlife or there isn’t. It doesn’t hinge on my belief system. Furthermore, either there is a heaven and a hell or there isn’t … and where you go depends on what you’ve done, not what supernatural force you pray to, It’s always been my feeling that the compelling reason to be religious is to lead a good life and follow the teachings of wise men. To my way of thinking, if religion is “sold” simply as a means to not be scared of dying, that kind of cheapens it.

The other thing you said, which coming from a med school student, really blew me away was that doctors are powerless to help a newborn baby. I’m no doctor, but Rabbit believe me. When your wife goes into labor, you will be powerless (or helpless) but the doctors will not be. Can they “fix” any problem that might arise? Of course not. But I’d submit they’re prepared for 90% of the things that threaten a healthy birthing experience. And this is coming from a “victim” of medical malpractice, so believe me … I don’t worship doctors. But I do believe the doctors are there to make sure your wife and baby get through this safely and they are far from helpless in doing so.

As far as feeling helpless, we’ve all been there if we’re honest with ourselves. It happens to me whenever my daughter is very sick (which fortunately is seldom). I just want to make it better and I can’t. It breaks my heart. But it’s part of being a Dad. I assure you, your heart will be broken lots of times but it will swell with joy and pride 10 times more often.

Finally, I know that Tex believes you can find comfort in life and death through Jesus Christ. I know he believes this with every fiber of his being. And I commend him for sharing his heart with you and by extension the rest of us.

…that our climatological experts predicted both a severe hurricane season for the 2007 and 2008 late summer/early fall months.

That didn’t transpire. If fact, the predictions not only proved wrong but hopelessly wrong.

I posted that the 2007 forecast estimated 14 named storms and 3 hurricanes, and we ended with 15 named storms and 6 hurricanes.

You said in post 165 that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration initial prediction was up to 17 tropical storms, with up to 10 becoming hurricanes.

And I clearly refuted that claim in post 170.

As I said we we ended with 15 named tropical storms and 6 hurricanes. Still a busier-than-average season. I don’t see how this is “hopelessly wrong”, and nowhere can I find that NOAA predicted a “severe hurricane season”. All I can find is they said 2007 will “be above normal” or “active”.

You chose to ignore this and instead use a private forecaster source called WSI Corp instead of NOAA. We were talking about the NOAA predictions or are you mentally challenged. Please post the links citing NOAA forecasting a catastrophe in 2007.

Sent from a friend. I won’t read the books, but I’ll take his word for it…

Wow Joe, a sure sign of ignorance that you take a bunch of sentences (hell not even paragraphs) cherry picked from a book you won’t read and then spout them here like they mean something.

Regarding the first comment about his mother, search through this thread (or maybe one of the ones on race) and you’ll see my perspective on that. What he says about his mother is completely understandable by anyone who knows the slightest bit about racial dynamics in this country.

As I told Tex when he posted similar “excerpts”, you’re way out of your league here. (And I bet dollars to donuts your friend didn’t read the damn book either.)

P.S. Complete disclosure … I’ve only read part of the book myself so I’m not claiming to be an authority on it but I do know that anyone reading these quotes with an understanding of racial dynamics would not dismiss them so easily.

Okay – so let’s assume I’m wrong. We can continue to send links back in forth because I still attest you are clueless. But let’s assume for a minute that you are right about 2007 being a higher than typical range of hurricanes. The NOAA was still forced to revise their estimates in the heart of hurricane season because the calamity did not develop as predicted after the Katrina fiasco.

My wife lives and works on the gulf coast. 2007 was forecast to be an incredibly destructive year for hurricanes along the coast – I know this for a fact because my wife’s company (petroleum) took extraordinary precautions, including to delay the deployment of rigs in the gulf to the tune of millions of dollars based on the NOAA predictions. Didn’t happen, and in fact for the gulf coast of the United States, hurricanes were a non-event in 2007 and again in 2008.

So I stick with my initial statement – the NOAA forecasts, based on the premise that the gulf coast would again be hit hard simply didn’t develop.

Now you answer my initial question you keep hiding from:

Please provide your facts to give your detractors confidence in the ability of current climatologists to accurately predict much of anything.

Of all the souls I’ve met on this board, you exemplify the words coward and obtuse better than all.

They go towards our (as in individual) identity. The fact that he not only embraces, but maligns, half of who he is certainly makes one wonder. And considering he threw his white grandmother under the bus as a racist because she was white, but wouldn’t disassociate himself from Jerimiah Wright until he became a political liability (and then only so much) says a lot as well.

I think I have a pretty good understanding of race, and I certainly know when I’m being desparaged.

Consider his justice department’s political appointees overriding career SESs and dropping charges against the Black Panthers for voter intimidation- caught on video and condemned by liberal race civil rights proponents.

ACORN associations and litigation.

20 years in Jerimiah Wrights pew.

The Dollar bill comment during the campaign.

I mean, come on, clearly this guy has an issue with race. Why should anyone be surprised by those comments from the books? And considering what we do know of the man, I hardly find it inconceivable that he would say those things.

But even if we go with what you said about “underastanding racial dynamics”, as the harbinger of HOPE and CHANGE, shouldn’t we expect him to rise above these petty identity stereotypes? We’ve been told that he is above race, but that just isn’t so, in fact, it is quite the opposite.

Either I was not clear, or you misunderstood. First the easy one which pertained to Rabbit’s new arrival.

There is little doctors can do to prevent defects concerning the development of the embryo. Oh, the mother can take folic acid enhancing the chances of a healthier baby for example. We can perform selective surgery while in utero to a limited degree. Emergency C-sections can be performed. We can enhance the chances of survival for preemies and neonates with synthetic surfactants…things of that sort. I am not cutting my own profession short. I’m just saying we are greatly limited in the assurance of a healthy baby.

I am talking about the magic of gestation Rutherford. We can’t prevent Down syndrome can we, or cerebral palsy, or the traits of sickle cell anemia? These are all still tragically too common and there is little we can do about it. Wish there was.

I can only relate my own experiences as a father watching the delivery of his own children. But there is a moment before that baby comes from the womb that you suddenly realize, whether you call it from God, nature or simply random chance, that is beyond all comprehension of medicine. And at that moment, you recognize for all our wisdom, we are absolutely helpless.

For me personally, at was at that moment that I realized just how futile my efforts in the grand scheme of things.

R, did you look at the list? Can you name a new vehicle in production that WASN’T on the list?

Last I checked, Hummer’s- even the H3- didn’t get the best gas mileage.

We have no idea how the program has worked- Obama won’t release the information, yet we’re being asked for another $2 billion dollars to continue something we don’t know was effective, don’t know if it is even supporting US automakers, don’t know if it is putting environmentally benefitical cars on the road. We know nothing of this other than the government’s red tape far exceeded what was expected and only 10% of the refunds from the dealers have been processed.

These are the same people, by the way, who want to run your healthcare…

What does one say to this, in the face of TRILLIONS of dollars worth of debt from this administration and congress alone, and following the ass-chewing they gave the auto execs for flying in private jets, they buy three private jets to fly around?

“The Air Force had asked for one Gulfstream 550 jet (price tag: about $65 million) as part of an ongoing upgrade of its passenger air service.

But the House Appropriations Committee, at its own initiative, added to the 2010 Defense appropriations bill another $132 million for two more airplanes and specified that they be assigned to the D.C.-area units that carry Members of Congress, military brass and top government officials.”

While I may adamantly disagree with your conclusions and give you a constant hard time, I believe I would admire the way you carry your life. Though you don’t like to hear this, I am going to say it anyway. You have overcome much and to be admired in doing so. I would like to think I would have had the strength, but I am not sure. I am sure you are a good husband, father and person “R”. You need not convince me of that.

I don’t look at my “religion” as a means of scaring anyone. That is certainly not my intent in sharing it. Actually, my faith is the only thing that brings me comfort realizing that I will be dying as that a given from the moment of birth. I would be lying (as would any sane individual) that the thought of death is more than unsettling. Faith is very difficult for me because I am the carbon copy of the Doubting Thomas. For years, I struggled with the decision, and even then there are moments of doubt and pain as Mick Jagger once said. Don’t forget that Christ asked the Father initially “if there is anyway, let this cup pass from me.” I have the best of company in sharing the fear of the physical pain.

It was only when I begin to take measure of things written and what has transpired throughout history, that I came to the conclusion that the Word right. I do not profess to understand it all and anybody that says they do is a liar. Without the Jews, I doubt I would believe. Don’t think my faith wasn’t based on what I perceive cold, hard calculation. I learned it, measured it, then made my decision after great struggle. Of all the things in life (except perhaps the female body), it has dominated my thoughts as an adult.

But here is where you and I take the fork in the road. The Bible calls your good works nothing but “filthy rags.” In other words, you can’t be good enough for entry to sit in the presence of God. It is humbling to accept this to say the least as none of us asked to be here, none of us got to choose our lot in life at birth.

But it my opinion, and based on what I believe to be the Gospel truth, that while your works admirable, they will account for little in the end. Your magnificence in works will be of no significant value when compared to the loving works of an Almighty God.

The Bible tells us that faith without works is dead. And I believe that to be true. But it is based on my faith that I am led to many of those good works. And many of those works are diametrically opposed to my basic nature. Again, first faith – then works.

Rutherford, like I told the Rabbit yesterday, I will be signing off for the most part starting next week. I would like you to send me an occasional email if you would (you’ve got the address) to let me know you are doing well.

Medical students don’t search for information? Or do you need to further qualify your blanket statement with some more of that Dr. Tex-ish nuance, like you used to defend your white majority statement that Rutherford called you on?

Did you research bonobos yet? If you have, then you have learned that,contrary to your know-it-all crap, there are primates other than man that have sex in the missionary position.

But if you knew your shit instead of just talking shit, you’d know that the missionary position is not even natural to humans. Why do you think it is called the “missionary position”? Because Christian missionaries forced it upon the “savages” they encountered that had sex like animals.

Your pre-med bio professors must not have pointed out that section in the book for you.

I wonder how dinosaurs fit into your Creation arguement. Did dinosaurs and man walk the Earth at the same time? Or maybe dinosaurs never existed at all, and is just a big lie by science to push its evolution agenda? Or maybe they all died the day before God created man?

How about the age of the planet. Is it billions of years old, as science has proven? Or is it 6,000-10,000 years old like the Bible timeline suggests?

Please spread some more of your unsupported wisdon, Dr. Tex. Leave us with something to laugh at before you run away in shame like Elric has.

You’re almost too uneducated to carry on a conversation with, a virtual child in both wisdom and knowledge, explaining why not only are you late to the game, but chosen a pud degree(s) to boot. This is the bottom of the dregs pal with respect to your education. As far as explaining med school to you, I won’t even try as you didn’t get it the first time and I couldn’t make it any more simple. That was for you Rutherford as I know you enjoy two political conservatives slugging away, yet it pisses you off for me to pick on readily apparent weak individuals.:smile:

Red, I don’t know about your WordPress expertise as it was so important to me, I still haven’t contacted Rutherford with my specific question. Undoubtedly, you must also be able to read minds, since you don’t know exactly what the specific question was without specific reference. And since I put you about 1,000 notches below Rutherford’s intellect and he couldn’t answer my question without more information, you truly are amazing at the game of chance.

As far as the monkeys doing it in the missionary statement, no I didn’t bother to read your link as the content almost made me laugh out loud and was said mostly in jest to Rabbit – if you consider that the pinnacle of a gotcha moment, I’ll take your word for it the monkeys can do so. However, I feel reasonably sure without any research that I can make this statement of fact: the Christian missionaries weren’t the first to do it in that position, nor the first to enjoy the position. Somewhere along the lines, I’ll bet Adam even copped the position. :roll: And in conversing with you, you alone have almost convinced me that you are right and I am wrong – some folks did apparently descend from apes which your family line soon followed.

You should try and understand that old Tex doesn’t think the world 6,000 – 10,000 years old, nor does the Bible state that. Tex thinks the world about 4.6 billion years old, and the known universe somewhere between 12-15 billion years old. Your profound ignorance of the Bible shows you must have been asleep and flunked the Christian portion of your religious studies. And If returning back to medical school to finish the degree is running away from the zenith of “fucking wasting time on a blog”, you got me there too. I’ve already wasted more time with your juvenile rants and putrid attempts at being wise than any sane adult should subject themselves.

Finally, in reference to your dinosaur statement, I believe those existed too. The Bible makes no mention of T-Rex, but since I consider T a member of the eukaryote/animal kingdom and the Bible clearly states God created all creatures great and small, I’ll consider that enough as the Bible not a science book as Solar1 so eloquently explained from above. You need to understand that ones practicing Apologetics as I have in the past, do not think the entire Bible completely literal in nature. We know allegory when we read it; for instance, in the Book of the Revelation. It doesn’t change it the truth, for Christ also spoke in parables which your obviously also clueless to the nature.

I have my own theories concerning the Cambrian, Jurassic, and following periods of history…but they are only conjecture. I’ll hint, but your puerile wisdom won’t have a clue to what I speak – namely fossil fuels in the preparation of what’s to come.

Take care Red – plug along in your religious studies as I’m sure that will buy you much. Between your demeanor of Woody Hayes and your pedantic affinity for the predilection of the irrelevant , I think you are well on your way to finding your purpose – namely Imam Pill.

Forcing millions upon millions of people to pay for something we deem as disgusting murder.

First there is legislation on the books that prohibits public funding of abortions except in extreme cases. Just yesterday, I saw a legislator, whose name I forget, say that the legislation being drafted now must accommodate the prior law, i.e. it cannot conflict with what is already the law of the land.

We’ve been told that he is above race, but that just isn’t so, in fact, it is quite the opposite.

First of all, Joe, any black man who is “above race” in this country is a fool. Until a black man can flag down a taxi as easily as a white man can, there is no getting “above race”.

Second, most of the quotes pulled from Obama’s book describe his struggles with identity growing up. You never had a dumb ass idea when you were a teenager? Were you so comfortable in your skin at 14? Good for you if you were … lots of folks weren’t.

I maintained back in April of last year in one of my campaign era posts that I suspect Obama doth protest too much about his piousness. I think the whole “Wright as spiritual mentor” thing was highly over done. The whole “sitting in the pew listening to hate” thing a huge exaggeration. I truly believe religion takes a back seat in Obama’s life and he protests otherwise for political reasons. It’s one thing about him that I do not particularly like.

As for throwing his grandmother under the bus. More foolishness. He said that his grandmother admitted to an irrational fear of black people. Plain and simple. He did not love her any less for it. My step-mother-in-law has some really backward views on blacks but she is a sweetheart without an ounce of hate in her body. I’m not throwing her under the bus when I acknowledge that she is racially backward. Obama never called his grandmother a racist.

Joe, I’m sorry that being white has been so damn hard for you, Perhaps you need to join the NAAWP? Oh sorry, in this country that’s called the KKK. :evil:

And at that moment, you recognize for all our wisdom, we are absolutely helpless.

OK Tex, my bad. I thought you were focusing on safety in the delivery itself, not on things such as CP, Downs etc. On that you are absolutely right, and as far as that is concerned, all we can do is hope for the best.

With that said, and I’m sure you agree, every baby is a “blessing” to borrow a religious word, and the trick postpartum is to make the best of whatever circumstances are thrown at you.

What’s funny “R” is do you realize that 90% of what you and I have learned is now obsolete?

Yup, it’s why saying you were a programmer back in the 80’s on your resume is tantamount to a joke. It was hard work but it doesn’t matter worth a damn now and does not impress potential employers in the least.

I just wanted to take a moment for folks to notice we have passed the 200 comment mark on this thread without the multiple link assistance of Elric. Yet you should also notice he has been mentioned at least a half dozen times in this thread. He lives on in our memories! :-)

By the way, for any of you more conspiracy minded, no … I have not banned Elric. He has disappeared, perhaps on vacation, hopefully nothing worse than that.

Yup, it’s why saying you were a programmer back in the 80’s on your resume is tantamount to a joke. It was hard work but it doesn’t matter worth a damn now and does not impress potential employers in the least.

You’re right, of course, but the sad fact is that it should. There’s only a few people left who can appreciate that fact, though. I’ve been there with you.

For one thing, it makes you are more efficient programmer in both design and detail. I can still remember these kids coming out of college I would hire, some with near 4.0s in comp sci and some of the crap they wrote, while cute was anything but usable. They focused way to much on form and too little on function. I would try to explain to them that the design should fit the person using it every day; not what we think we would like – but seldom did they listen.

That’s one of the reasons amongst many I got out of “R”. Ever thought about a new field like I did? You’re obviously smart enough to do more with yourself than be some corporate lackey, now to probably somebody half your age. What about something like engineering?

You don’t think the purchase of three “luxury” corporate jets for Congress use at this time is at least the height of bad taste?

I’m surprised you would approve of this waste. Damn friend, aren’t you getting to the point of being afraid what we are leaving our children? I’ll bet if I could cut through the crap, even you would think Nancy Pelosi is a disgrace.

Of all the things in life (except perhaps the female body), it has dominated my thoughts as an adult.

Yes, that female body thing has weighed heavily on me also. ;-)

Well, Tex, honestly I never expected you to visit this small corner of the blogosphere but I’m glad that once you visited, you stuck around a bit. Hopefully Rabbit will persevere here without you. I’m sure you’re one of the reasons he sticks around.

Sounds like you’re re-upping the med school thing. Best of luck to you and do make the occasional visit now and then.

P.S. I’ll contact you personally if I decide some lib in here (other than me) needs a good ass-kicking. ;-)

Please provide your facts to give your detractors confidence in the ability of current climatologists to accurately predict much of anything.

Long range weather and climate predictions are for the most part uncertain, because initial conditions and the reliability of the models of motion and weather patterns are uncertain.

I’ll never be convinced that my limited scientific knowledge is sufficient to parse the details of global warming or climate change. So I defer to overwhelming scientific consensus. All I really want is to lessen our footprint on the Earth and become more energy efficient.

I haven’t given up yet on my business, which really is my dream. I’ve had more luck this year (albeit miniscule) than ever before so I’m not throwing in the towel yet.

Some examples: 1.got published in an elearning online magazine
2. Was a featured panelist on a ZDNet webcast (which should mean something to you as opposed to the less computer literate folks on the blog).

Of course, both these things occurred under my real name, not the pseudonym. Which brings me to a funny and totally trivial point. I have two Twitter accounts. One for the professional me and one for the political me. Every now and then when I’m not paying attention I post a politically barbed “tweet” under my real name and afterward say “shit!” I do try to shield my professional “followers” from my political views. :-)

We can’t even discuss health care becuase they are PURPOSELY keeping the info from us.

Rabbit, if you’ve watched any of the recent town hall meetings with congressmen, you’d see that we can’t discuss health care because mobs show up at these meetings, filibuster, sometimes nonsensically, and are not willing to participate in a polite free exchange of ideas.

The behavior of some of the folks at the town halls makes me think they’re not interested in learning or influencing. They’re only interested in obstructing.

Sounds like Code Pink or any number of liberal groups that have using that tactic for years.

But these aren’t mobs. R, you’re busting out the Dem talking points now. Imagine that, WORKING PEOPLE extremely upset about what is being proposed in healthcare.

I mean, come on, have you read H.R. 3200? Unions are exempt and any change to the plan- ANY CHANGE- and you’re FORCED to the public option, rationing of health care, the more people learn of this thing the more upset they get.

The numbers don’t lie- the American people are becoming more and more against what it is your party is proposing, and they should be. Obama and his Dems in Congress are NOT being honest with us about whats in the bill or what they intend. Obama has been caught lying about his views on a single payer system- surprise, surprise- so it comes as no surprise that Obama and the dems have to attack the messenger at these town halls, because at the end of the day, the message doesn’t stand to criticism.

It works perfectly and hasn’t been used in Afghanistan or Iraq because it isn’t needed there. What are they going to use it for, especially when we’ve a plethora of other air assets already in theater.

The Air Force asked for 1 jet- ONE. Pelosi and company took it upon themselves to add 2-TWO more jets. Tell me, why can’t she fly commercial? Probably because 3 out 4 people despise her, there probably is a real security risk for her.

Tell me, am I allowed to say I’m proud of being white? I’d instantly be branded RACIST. Could I setup a college fund for whites only? Instantly RACIST. How about a fraternity for whites only? Instantly RACIST.

MLK said, “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”

Who clings to race in this country, who clings to the notion of pigmentation and mellan count? There are always exceptions to every rule and you are always going to have those that literally only see skin deep, but can you honestly say that a significant portion of the black community is beyond race? Obama has a 95% approval among blacks, but the national average is in the low to mid 50s. 96% of blacks voted for Obama, do you mean to tell me that the black community is such a monlithic political block that it nearly unanimously acts? Or is it that they voted based on race rather than policy?

You know, it is just as racist to vote FOR someone based on race as it is to vote AGAINST someone based on race. So are blacks racist because they overwhelmingly didn’t vote for McCain?

A perfect case in point. Bush depicted as the Joker is brilliant political commentary, Obama depicted as the same, dangerous and racially motivated. It is a sad, sad day for the 1st Ammendment when we can’t have critical political commentary for fear of being labeled a racist for it.

Talk about assassinating Bush, villifying him in any and every manner possible- oh, that’s OK (apparently because he’s white) but if you to do the same towards Obama- instant racist. The damn Obama Joker poster says plainly at the bottom SOCIALISM, last I checked, that wasn’t a racial epithet…

George Bush asked that the Speaker of the House be afforded secure government transport after 911. The House Sergeant at Arms requested from the military any suitable aircraft that could make the trip nonstop.

As of 2008 the F-22 meets only seven of its 22 “key requirements” and has a 62% reliability rating. It seems like a hangar queen if I ever saw one.

Are you aware that Boeing is offering a stealth F-15 at 1/3 the cost of the F-22?

Given enough years it may turn out to be a very good fighter. So, don’t cancel the F-22, but don’t buy more than we’re already scheduled for.

So I defer to overwhelming scientific consensus. All I really want is to lessen our footprint on the Earth and become more energy efficient.

Really? A consensus, hey? Looks to me like a consensus of people with a shared agenda – federal funding and a higher tax structure. Strangely, I find most scientists, including my friend the meteorologist, believing your pet theory to be bunk.

More baloney from the lunatic fringe…but it was great to see India tell your cronies to kiss their collective ass.

If you’re proud of being white then you’re pretty silly in my book. You had nothing to do with being white. It’s not an accomplishment and nothing to be proud about. Same for being black. Black pride is the height of foolishness. It’s a goddam accident of birth plain and simple. Now, I understand people wanting to embrace their culture, the rituals and traditions that bring them comfort. But I’ll be damned if I can tie these cultural preferences to race. Ethnicity, maybe. Geography, maybe. But I don’t see it with race.

Your other point … folks who voted for Obama just because he was black are as dumbass as those who voted for McCain solely because he was white. Now I have said elsewhere in this blog that I do believe that more folks voted for McCain because they did not want a black man in the white house than blacks voted for Obama because they did not want a white man in the white house. In other words, I believe more whites voted against something while more blacks voted for something. This is borne out by how many whites felt McCain was a piss poor candidate and voted for him anyway or didn’t vote at all.

Still, as the election results proved, an overwhelming majority of people, white and black, voted for change. Now, the question remains, are we happy with the change we’re getting.

I didn’t say that I’m proud of being white- I think its stupid as well, but as you pointed out, there are a lot of people that put a lot of emphasis on their race.

Voting for a black man or voting against a black man- both are racist and both are stupid. I honestly can’t understand the political masochism that is the black community. The Dem party have never had the black communities interests in hand, you’ve always been a pawn to be manipulated. After all, the Dems created Jim Crow laws, the KKK and it wasn’t until they saw ‘votes’ that they got interested in civil rights. MLK was a republican and his efforts with Nixon scared JFK and LBJ into action, however begrudgingly.

Inner cities, dominated by Dems have seen the black community sunk ever deeper into social maliase, to point that you’ll have a struggle on par with civil rights to get your community back.