Are the dragons (draconians) fighting with the manchild (144,000) right now?

Thank you ! I didn't intend to make that thread so much extraterrestrial, you did it instead.

There are others, transformers, whoc an play the beast of iron 4 of Daniel.

Notice Revelation 12:17 after the flee of woman (another big topic with quite controversial interpretations - is she fleeing ON EARTH or outside the
planet - rapture). Whatever it is, in 12:17 we have a WAR waged by the Dragon (Aliens) against someone on earth who is strong enough and keeps
commandments of Jesus Christ (Christian nation), has not retreated as the woman, and prefers to fight the invading forces! Is it Russia who pretends
to defend Christianity? Or another nation?

I think that moment is far away. Because,...the war in the cosmos, or war in heaven in revelation 12 may take quite a long time. The rest of events
on earth happen only after it ends.

And the dragons now cannot do much than intimidating. They are evil and they attack. But they know they don't have all powerful as they would after
they are cast out of space. They are afraid of the God's chosen ones (as many as they are) and that's why I am writing that thread. They should be
careful for their tails, because some of God's children may want to cut them off and fry them or make some toys , kites, boats of them. The dragons
are exposed for centuries and are currently the most endangered animal on the planet. Perhaps need protection to survive to Revelation 12 at all. Woe
to them if they dare to trespass limits today! They will be simply nuked by St George's order of Putin.

12,000 of each tribe of 12 tribes =144 000 There are 12 Jewish Tribes so that is where the 144,000 come from.

And the Dragon is basically all those reptillian serpent monuments and Gods around the globe in my oppinion.
Seems to fit the description. So yeah they would be Aliens.

I donno if reptile like aliens are Lurking around our planet tho.

I guess the lion symbolism is also signifigant in of itself. Take the Sphinx for example. It's the Opposite of the Dragon.
Yet both icons of worship are seen in Babylon.
Only the Sphinxs are more prominent in Babylon than anything else. Revolations also describes a Sphinx Character.

So when i said revolations crosses off as many possiblities for outcomes i wasn't over exadurating. Those are just minor examples. There are at least
100 examples in that book that parallell to real life and other cultures.

You can see in this verse, The Dragon Vs The Sphinx.

Revelation 13:2

1And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore.
Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were
blasphemous names. 2And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And
the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. 3I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And
the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the
beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?” 5There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and
blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name
and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.

7It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was
given to him. 8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of
life of the Lamb who has been slain. 9If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills
with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

The Beast from the Earth

11Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. 12He exercises all the
authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was
healed. 13He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. 14And he deceives those who
dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make
an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. 15And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that
the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16And he causes all, the small and
the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17and he provides
that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom.
Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

although horrible, the killing of newborn (or abortion) is not the matter of discussion here. The manchild is grown up and mature when he is
presented before God.

Ohhh, sorry for the misunderstanding.

My view of the scriptures is absolutely not literal. And, I take each statement, writing, for its own merit, value. I do not give them blanket
immunity from reality. In my mind each one must be vetted to reality to be useful. And best for each to be corroborated.

When I was young a mentally retarded man was called "ManChild" because they were physically mature outside, but very much a child on the inside.
Honestly, I don't know about the warfare your referring to when it comes to the real world. Is there a possibility of a race of "manchildren"
fighting the evil dragon? Maybe but that would defiantly be above my pay grade lol lol But not out of the realm of possibilities.

What do see in the world is a attack on our children to produce manchildren through vaccines, and a educational system that fills their heads with
nonsense. I see in a hundred years a humanity that wont even be able to identify their shoe laces, let along tie them.

So if you look at your topic in that light, you better believe manchild is at war, for our very survival. If you want to only look at scriptures the
way the manipulators, err, authors present the information, you might be doing all of us a disservice, in the long run. Not you personally, but
generally.

If i could interprit that, The beast that is slain and risen is Osiris (Horus)- Jesus) I don't know anyone else in mythology who follows that path.

Osiris often related to the Benu, The Pheonix. However the 2 only relate in Rebirth. Osiris Required his wife to recover his remains after his brother
killed him and scattered his body.

She had to retrieve everything including his Penis. Which is where the Oblisk symbolism comes from or so they say. The story was written around the
Oblisk, Or was the Oblisk written around the story?

It's a chicken and the Egg kind of Deal. Because to me, Osiris and all those crazy bunch didn't exist in he previous civilization that originally
created the pyramids. Just my take on it. The *Egyptians* where the most recent Squatters who were Greek. Before then, Summarians settled that land,
Building upon * The Old Kingdom* Where such characters as Unas were Written about.

Babylon got pissed that their nabours ( Decendents of Summarians) were changing so much adapting their religion with the surroundings. My belief is
the Headresses the people wore in those areas were influenced by the Sphinx. Which is said to be 12,000 + Years old.

I'm just taking it for what it is. Skimming over much of the B.S to see their Origins. What i interprit as B.S anyways.

The true history of the planet is recorded in imagery. The only thing that ever survives. Words can be corrupted. But images is much more difficult.
An image can only be interprited if the maker is not known. And until the maker explains. it will only ever be interprited. Even if the maker got the
idea from a source he/she themselves do not know. The maker of the image can only know.

It's no coincidence that images of striking similarity span across the whole planet.
And religion interprits on these things.

Religion says, Hey this guy lived there but our oppinion he did this and that.
religion says, Believe this and that and you will be spared.
Religion more often than not, tells you want you want to hear. Rather than the interpritation of the Truth.

It's all rather confusing to try to get all the answers from the pages alone.
There's lots of people tho who havn't had any experiences to relate to any of this. So it's harder for the population to concieve the reality of
it.
Anthopologists will chalk things up to animal personifcation. They dumb down a lot of symbolism that could be interprited as literal.

I have read part of Wheel of time even if it is fiction, Robert Jordan clearly do understand something with his pattern idea and how an ta'veren can
change the whole pattern. An analogy for the butterfly effect.

Seven Ages in wheel of time. 7 wheels/chakras in the body in Hinduism.

Why not to look for the 144,000 TODAY? If not literal then symbolic. The Catholic clergy alone does not represent them, for various reasons, the least
of which is the nationality of the 144,000.

While I don't know whether we are at that time of the Apocalypse or not (it may come after thousands years or more), it would be wise for the current
Church leadership to take into account the wider representation of peoples. The times of few elect ones who decided the fate of the millions, are
gone. Nothing stops the pope to enlarge the number of cardinals and to include lay people. It was done in the past. They might be of Jewish origin
as well. Not to copy the 144,000 of the Apocalypse, but to make sensible change in the outdated status quo.

The cardinalate is not something that Jesus established (as well as many other things). Found useful in the course of Church history in the West, (in
the East we have different names and structures, including much bigger role of synods that have LAY people even as electors of the next patriarch).
Perhaps it is not the time to abolish existing structures only for the sake of their destruction. But to use them in a new meaning. Nothing stops
the pope to increase the cardinals, even up to the Biblical number of 144,000 and including LAY people of various background, age, abilities, etc. I
don't want to sound as this will represent that number of the Apocalypse. BUT we have to start from somewhere and what we have today on the table
is absolutely not enough.

If we want to win the current battle with the dragon/draconians, providing we are still not in the final final End times, (and that we don't know
despite all end time doomers), then we have to provide means for the successful struggle.

Luke 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him
who comes against him with twenty thousand?

Perhaps more should be done in regard to the Messianic Jews who should be the core, not the outcast of the Christ's Church on Earth. In fact many
valuable people are now outcast because of the pharisees inside. Those who are true leaders today, and there are many worthy clergy the majority,
should take that struggle as their own and start clean up the church now. New people are needed inside, with fresh ideas. For ex. not to have old
TABOOS of the existence of extraterrestrial life dating back to Galileo time. They must be open for the realities, something more - they have to lead
the world in proposing the new start first with ideas.

What we have at the end of the 2nd year pontificate of pope Francis, is good intentions, controversial words, and almost no deeds on the table. I'd
wish him not to be the last successor of Peter who would close an apocalyptic like prophecy of Malachi and Fatima with the end of the Roman church.
I'd wish him to make the necessary change for the next generations to feel comfortable "at home" within the Catholic church, even when they will be
residing already on other planets. Enough with delays! Let face the truth already leaked from everywhere on internet.

We don't have 5 lives to spend this one in waste suffocated in today's status quo and endless cares for physical -economic survival, and to start
living "newer and better life" in the next one. What we do we do it now in this body before getting the award in heaven.

If there are thousands of Messianic Jews or others whose inclusion in the worldwide church will help overcoming today's deadlock, it should be done
today, not waiting for the End times.

What shall we answer Jesus when he come as thief in the night for each of us, when He asks each of us: "What did you do for my flock?"

" Oh Lord, but I thought your Second coming was around the corner and I waited for You to do it instead of me your humble servant".

I doubt Lord Jesus needs SUCH KIND of humble service. The way he didn't need the rejection of other worlds in the time of Giordano Bruno by pharisees
at that time.

The Draconians are the single ET race determined by all insiders /contactees as hostile. There are different views on the role of the Grey. But there
is only one general view on the role of the Draconians. They are hostile, in terms they do not have the human best interests in their intentions,
although they might not eat people today as allegedly they did in earlier ages. Today they might not estabish empires as they did in the past (ref.
Asian cultures show that abundantly).

Perhaps there will be some defenders of reptilians, reptoids, raptors, as we see them popping up on sites such as Camelot. Perhaps in the vast
Universe there are enough good reptilian civilizations, out of billions possible. I don't assume otherwise, I don't say all reptilian races are evil
because they have been created reptilian by the same God. Our problem is not THAT.

Our problem is the current role of Draconians that allegedly is far too great than assumed. If that is true, if there is ongoing battle between humans
and draconians (plus other ET civilizations on our side), including within the sacred places, then we need all available to win that battle.

The big difference between now and the Rev 12 is that the draconians (Dragon's angels) are cast out of heaven (space) en masse at that time. AFTER
the War in Heaven/Space that we don't have any evidence it is over (we haven't seen any war in heaven/space in first place, and a prophecy is not a
mystical experience, it is a real event if it is a prophecy at all).

We might be quite far from that moment of the Woman in the desert. There might be hundreds of years before Rev 12. Or it may happen tomorrow.

WE DON'T KNOW.

We'd better take measures which side we are at.

"Every battle is won or lost before it's ever fought", said Sun Tsu. Was he influenced by the draconian dominated culture and religion? I don't
know. What I know is we are walking right into the loss of the battle for the Church , and probably the planet as well. In scenarios such as nuclear
winter. Well, you may say there will be a winner sitting underground and counting the survivors.

If we want a future different from that one, we should make our small efforts TODAY, NOW, instead of may be good but senseless actions of both big and
small.

I just posted the Fatima-3 Neues Europa text in another thread about the 3 days of darkness. Fatima is overdue with at least 15 years, may be 20-30
years! What more shall we wait for, before "oceans turn to steam"? I don't understand the point. To wait for second coming and miraculous
restoration of earth in a blink of an eye? Why don't you call it "Death and Heavenly realm then? To wait for the massive death of the civilization a
s means to cleanse it, is not the best way to continue that civilization. Surprisingly, many of today's hardline religious, faithful and seers wait
exactly that, regardless of their denominations.

If so, nothing else remains than the rapture spaceships.

I still hope we are not in that moment, simply because there is no rapture spaceships as of today.

The leaders of the Holy Rome Church (or Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae S.R.E. as it is in Malachi) would do better to prepare continuation and survival of
the Roman church in all circumstances. Including those of a nuclear winter or other calamities. The pose of imminent martyrdom that some of the
leaders prefer to take, with partially true and outright false "apparitions and messages" is wrong. If such a pose was adopted in early centuries,
there wouldn't be the supernatural phenomena of S.R.E. during the following centuries, with all of its historic ups and downs. May be the historic
achievements are many more than the critics it received for past errors.

To expect the demise in martyrdom pose, is not what God wants her to do. It will leave vacuum that will be filled by other churches indeed, who in the
era of nuclear winter will manage to provide successors. But is it all it was about S.R.E., all those centuries, to leave the flock in such a moment?
It shouldn't be considered martyrdom, it should be considered run from responsibility and even in some cases, betrayal of the common faithful.

Instead, S.R.E. should adopt a modern view of the old apparitions, because God has the last word even on prophets like Malachi and Fatima. A modern
view on modern phenomena like UFO and ET. A modern view on the political processes that are ongoing in the world and that I cannot discuss here but
surely I did and will do in other places. That is what the 1.4 billion members and other non catholic christians expect to see from Rome. Not the next
power struggle for interests very far from the problems of the people. The people want to see the true leaders who help them out of the situation, not
leaders who promise them martyrdom as reward for uneasy lives of fidelity towards that same Holy Roman Church! If we believe its origin is
supernatural (Jesus to Peter) then we should also believe it will last until the End, until the Second Coming, and "the gates of hell will not
prevail" - a writing with large golden letters on the inside dome of St Peter's. There isn't antipope, as some want to present the things. There
are canonically elected popes who did their best int he last decades in the most difficult history of humankind when "the nuclear war should be
avoided at all cost" (Pius XII). Let their efforts are not in vain by the current generation leaders who seem already have accepted the defeat as
"the will of God". If they do so, I doubt their billion followers will accept the same defeat. They will rather ask their local pastors to continue
what Jesus wanted to be done on Earth. Changed back to the roots.

The above is especially valid for pope Francis. Being the last in a long list of prophecies known as Malachi's prophecies, he has the special
responsibility the spirit of defeat not to overcome him thinking this is the end of the Holy Roman Church. He should assure there will be valid
election after his step down or death. As everything in the Catholic Church the last word has the pope. It is he who can arrange the things the way
there will be elected successor, as his predecessor Benedict arranged he was neither the last pope (as some believed) nor the pope who goes into exile
and martyrdom. The prophecy is not written in stone.

Jesus never set dates or list of final popes successors of Peter. He said other words that I quoted above. Malachi might be right for his time, but
such prophecies are restricted to their time and the circumstances they are in. Fatima is doubtful to be the truth, and even if it is, St John Paul 2
said he believed it was already fulfilled the part of his own assassination attempt. The pope and his aides, those who might be his legitimate
successors, should not give up and not betray the common faithful, both catholic and other christian. The history won't be merciful if Rome just
cease to exist as center of christianity, because of interests hardly having anything in common with the interests of the devote faithful people who
dedicated their entire lives to God in the Catholic church. It is just not fair. Regardless of their countries, poor in Latin America or rich in West
Europe. It is not fair to betray all those people, and countless saints who shed their blood for that same Church. Not that there won't be valid
successors from the ends of the earth even if Rome fails. But the betrayal will be a fact that will stay in Church history until the ends of time.
Perhaps today's leaders don't want to be remembered with that.

And they know very well it is not about the Second Coming of Jesus. The protestant pastors have some excuse because of their general limited knowledge
only to the sacred scripture, excluding centuries theology. The clever ones inside the walls of Rome and outside it have no such excuse. They are
obliged to do the best for the faithful, for the future generations faithful. Not the best for their own short lived interests of humans who today are
and tomorrow are not.

There are many reasons why the Manchild in Revelation 12 cannot be Jesus. First, Jesus wasn't raptured as a baby! Then, Mary his mother didn't flee in
the desert Alone, but together with Jesus and Joseph. Then, the Apocalypse is written some 100years later and is a vision not of the past but a
prophecy of the future. Another thing, the birth happens in space, near earth indeed but in space not on the surface of planet earth. Perhaps in a
spaceship. Both the dragon and the Woman stand in space. Symbolic yes, but also showing location. Because John could see them on earth as he saw them
later on earth, but he saw them in space at the time of the birth of manchild and his rapture.

Only a Son of Jesus could fulfil that role, because Jesus himself has different much bigger things to do. When I say "son" it could mean great great
great grand son.

For 1980+ years after the Ascension Jesus could have as many descendants as he wanted, on any planet He wanted, or in the highest heaven wherever it
is. This is a logical conclusion.

What we have as written text are a dozen or so gospels, both newly discovered manuscripts and well known gnostic ones, both old enough and authentic
books that were persecuted at their time. They were not changed by Constantine and therefore are much more likely to be authentic. They all speak of
the woman Mary Magdalene being the wife of Jesus on Earth.

The story of Mary Magdalene's earthy life goes to France. I do not buy into the theory the French kings are descendants of Jesus. They were too bad to
be! I'd rather assume, that following the example of Jesus, and Mother Mary, Mary Magdalene was raptured and ascended to heaven or another planet at
the end of her earthly life. So might be her son(s) and daughter(s) as many as she had.

It is a pity the church blindly denies those manuscripts and stamps "forgery" on every text that speaks differently than the real historic forgery -
Constantine-approved canonical gospels. Not that they are untrue. They are too narrow and omit major events from the life of Jesus. Such as contacts
with the angels ET. Such as His own wife and children. Such as his first 30 years life on earth. Too many facts are cut off, facts that must be
present. Why "must"?

Because frankly Mother Mary wouldn't retell to Luke word by word the "Magnificat" that magnifies herself, if She didn't tell him beforehand many more
details of the life of her beloved Son in the so called secret years. How is it we have several songs, of Mary, of Elizabeth, of Zachariah, of Simon
in the temple, written word by word and REPEATED everyday during the centuries monastic life, but we don't have the rest of the story? It cannot be
forgotten, missing, or not told by Mary to Luke, and to the other apostles, if those songs are repeated so meticulously. Why is it missing then?

The only logical answer is it was cut off intentionally by someone. Only the Roman emperors who established the Christianity from persecuted to state
religion could have done that, thru the hands of their subject bishops and church fathers. The rest who didn't obey, were called heretics banned, and
some burned even at that early time.

To go back to the Son of Jesus. There are sons of Jesus (and daughters naturally). The question is not IF but WHERE are they. I suggest they are up in
the space. The Revelation 12 birth is a cosmic event.

Jesus is not permitted to come NOW because of his own wordings: "For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes
in the name of the Lord.’...Wordings said to the Jews and to us as well. Because on every mass we say and sing those same words" blessed is he who
comes int he name of the lord". Why don't we say, why didn't Jesus say "until you say blessed is the Lord?" BECAUSE HE IS A DIFFERENT PERSON! The
Lord's messenger, personal representative,o will be sent forward, may be as John the Baptist in the First Coming. What better option than the Lord's
own son? I admit it is not the only possibility though (many will say, Elijah).

I don't imagine a better case for the extraterrestrial angels than to come leaded by the son of Jesus. If not, they may say they come in the name of
Jesus and that will be enough. Or leaded by Elijah. But Elijah doesn't fit into the image of the manchild. May be all, Elijah, Enoch, and the Son of
Jesus will come, one after another or altogether?

But if some others ET say Jesus is non existent personage of history, as the Andromedans do, then be sure they are not the good ones. I am afraid they
will come soon after the good ones come and go, together with those who are saved.

Then all those people left behind, may be religious devote people, who showed no trust and did not want to read the full truth of Jesus, will brace
the really bad ones who do not come anymore in the name of the Lord.

I don't know the time period between the two groups. Perhaps it is beyond our human lives, if cataclysmic event stands between. In other words the End
times may come after the chastisement and the era of peace. The evil aliens may come just then, not before.

But in era of peace will enter only those who accept the truth of Jesus and his kingdom as children. I don't see much of his kingdom in the 2000 years
Christianity and political Christendom.

May be we are not worthy to receive the Son of Jesus at all. May be we go directly to the Chastisement with brief rapture of all God-loving people in
minutes. I don't know. I list options, not definite scenarios, and never set dates.

If tomorrow the EM weapons stop communication, internet, cell phones, please don't say you weren't warned. Here it is told more than one option, some
of them contradict each other so you can choose or think of something else better than me. Everyone of you have reason to decide for himself.

Ezra Bridger of Star Wars TV serial Rebels is the new character of ever evolving Star Wars Universe. It is the closest one to what I could perceive as
'characters of the 144,000', may be not exactly the manchild. He/they will be born /or anointed outside earth because the Woman in Revelation 12 is
not standing on earth when giving birth. Of course Ezra is just a character of the popular film. But close enough, mastering the Force as never before
seen in those serials.

I have to say today's understanding of these incoming events is very poor among religious ones. They would talk and talk of everything else but not of
that main prophecy in NT that must happen BEFORE the start of the Great Trib and therefore before the coming of Jesus Christ. When it happens,
visibly, sure they will call it with negative names. Because they are not prepared at all.

I am convinced more than ever, that the 144,000 from the Revelation are already on Earth and acting invisibly under intense pressure of draconians and
their servants. Whether that will culminate in the rest of the Apocalypse now, or there will be pause as I talked about (between the manchild's
rapture and the end of the galactic space war) is a question I cannot answer now. Time flows differently in different places in this Universe,
according to formulas invented by smarter people than I am. There is a need for the Revelation examiners to educate themselves the basics of science,
as Hawking called everyone of us. In other words, the events of Revelation 14 are the last not the first action of the 144,000 just before the great
fall of the great harlot Babylon. Whether we will witness that happening in our days or not?

For centuries it is implied that the Second Coming of Jesus depends almost entirely on His acceptance by the Jews. Was it so in early Christianity?
No, not really, because the early Christians who were predominantly Jews and expected the Lord's Day every next month and year. It seems the
expectation of the Jews' conversion to Christianity became more important only later, as Paul writes, and as the Christians moved out of the inherited
Jewish communities. Pagans became predominant members of the Christendom, with their rulers and kings.

The history is not what I want to discuss here, but the phrase said by Jesus as recorded by Canonical Gospels of Luke and Matthew (others may exist).

Jesus does not speak of Himself. If so, he could simply say "blessed is the Lord who comes, or blessed is the master, or blessed is the Son of Men, or
blessed is the Son of God. He said nothing of the sort. He said "blessed is he who comes IN THE NAME of the Lord". IN THE NAME OF could mean someone
else sent by, and not the Lord himself.

That thing the Churches would like to imply for themselves, that THEY are those who come in the name of the Lord. They preached for centuries to pagan
peoples, as God's messengers. There is a logic for that time. But in a wider perspective, their acceptance did not bring the kingdom of God on Earth,
even less the Second Coming of Jesus. The shores of Philippines and Peru, all heard of the Good news (another requirement by Jesus said right before
his ascension "in a cloud") and stil Jesus isn't coming. Something is not as we were told.

We need a complete reread of the Sacred Scripture. In first place what the ancients knew and the elders skipped, that the Universe consists of many
more planets than ours, that God is Creator much more powerful thanthought before, that Jesus' mission is much more universal than considered before
(to convert the jews or to reach the shores of Cuba).

Let see Revelation 12. I will not quote it because the rest of my post all details every word. I will accent on the sequence that all depends on it.

First, the manchild is born by the woman, not literally on earth, but somewhere near earth, between the moon and the sun. No those are not just
images. The woman at that time does not stand with her feet on earth, rather on the moon. It is quite possible the birth (be it spiritual or physical)
to take place in near earth space. Then the manchild is taken on hi up to God and His throne.

What is messed up, is the persecution of woman to start at that moment. It does not start then. The dragon stands only to eat the child, and he
doesn't start any persecution of the woman, he doesn't come to earth at that time. Instead the war in heaven/space starts at that moment. We are
talking of space war, star wars, that iwll take quite a long time. According to earth measures? I don't know. Time flows different. Still, it is not
quite reasonable to expect that Space War to continue only days or weeks from earth's point of view. In that whole period the earth is not ruled by
the dragon and the woman is not persecuted yet.

Who is the woman, please give your interpretations. She is seen with her feet on earth only after the casting down of the dragon, only after the end
of the space war. Then comes the persecution and fleeing in the desert.

When comes the rule of the manchild? It is easy to say, it is Jesus therefore - the Millennium kingdom. Easy but cannot be farther from the truth.
First of all, Jesus was not born to be raptured immediately to God, but to walk the earth for 33 long years. Mary was not persecuted alone, but she
and Joseph took the baby and fled to Egypt. Quite different from Revelation 12 written 100++ years later and speaking of the future not of the past.
The manchild is someone else.

Whether he is somehow descendant of Jesus Christ, or he is not directly related to Jesus Christ, I don't know. Apparently his role is yet to be
determined. He may well rule over earth (and space) in the time period of the space war in heavens and the relative peace (era of peace?) on earth. In
other words, he should come before the Second Coming, before the landing of the dragon (draconians etc) and before the Antichrist (who comes as world
ruler only AFTER the dragon's landing at the end of the space war, NOT before that).

Is therefore the manchild whom Jesus refers to as "Blessed is He who comes IN THE NAME of the Lord"? The manchild may introduce on earth the era of
peace before the end of the space war in heavens.

The idea that the Church is the woman, gives mystical birth anew to Christ thru all of us, is good as mental reflection to make us behave better on
this planet. But it does NOT answer fundamental questions as those above.

The elders know that 15th or 10th century theology cannot explain what happens in 21st century in the nuclear age. When not only the existence of
humanity is at stake, but also the existence of the Churches. You can't have churches if all their members are killed in nuclear annihilation.

That cannot be equal to armageddon to expect the coming of Jesus Christ. Whoever expects that is very far from the truth. That would be rather 2 Peter
fire that will leave no ground. The modern day churches grossly underestimate the possible outcome for humanity and planet, assured only by THEIR
understanding of the Scriptures, that might be as outdated as some of them are. What if they are simply wrong in their interpretations?

We will have nuclear holocaust and we will not even understand when we will die to be presented before God. Some people envision that as the ultimate
goal of human history. And how about humanity itself? Why not to be prolonged according to God's plan? Isn't that exacty the biggest achievement of
Satan to stop God's plan from being fulfilled?

I believe "blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord" refers to another person not to Jesus himself, a person whom He will send to turn his
flock back to the roots of early Christianity. To prepare the way of the Lord, as John prepared the first coming of Jesus Christ. Elijah? Enoch?
Melchizedek? May be all of them, leaded by the one whom Revelation 12 clearly points at. There is no more time to wait and see. Frankly, if the
Manchild and/or his messengers and friends (144,000) come tomorrow on spaceships, the Churches will find themselves in a very complicated situation,
keeping grave silence some 1980 years since the Ascension of Jesus Christ "in a cloud".

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