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Chainsaw

There is no way hole 16 is a par 4. Wind is always a factor at Cliff anyways. That's not to discount what you are saying. 16 is a very challenging 3. More often than not, one can not see the pin even after a decent drive (decent meaning somewhere down the fairway - IN BOUNDS!). But par is not supposed to be EASY. It is supposed to be had through a series of perfectly placed shots.

There is no way hole 16 is a par 4. Wind is always a factor at Cliff anyways. That's not to discount what you are saying. 16 is a very challenging 3. More often than not, one can not see the pin even after a decent drive (decent meaning somewhere down the fairway - IN BOUNDS!). But par is not supposed to be EASY. It is supposed to be had through a series of perfectly placed shots.

Your right. But I dont think you can say par is a series of perfectly placed shots and then call 13 long a par 4. I missed my 3 with a 35' putt. So if i throw 425'+425'+30' perfectly does that make everything inside 880 a par three? I don't think so. If i gotten a three on that hole I would like to think I did better than par. I think a par 4 hole should be a hole where 2 damn near imposs. to throw, do to length or conditions. In the end though I guess you can call them par 3,4,5,6 or whatever, but the person with the fewest throws still is going to win.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2007, 02:34:40 PM by Nicky p »

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I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER"

DG Thuggy

Found this document that is kind of interesting. Tries to give guidelines for what par a hole should be. Based on this I can't see hole 16 being anything but a 4. Only the gold level courses would allow it to be a par 3 based on length, but if "foliage" would also take into account OB, then it would probably be 4 as a gold level course.

kchippie

That is for public par, what is it for pro par? I know there is a differance but it still seems a 700 is just a little more difficult than a 250. How are they the same par? Like Nick P said "but the person with the fewest throws still is going to win." They could all be par 10 and that would still be true, but there should be some sort of differance. Hell I don't know, you all know that.

Why discount par? It an inseperable part of golf. In the future, courses will have par 4's and 5's. That we have got used to the rediculous "every hole is par 3" concept, is one setback to the progress of the game. It will happen though, look at the USDGC.

It's true that good par 4's and 5's are harder holes to design. They should not be just a matter of length. When done right, these holes introduce a better scoring variety. You have some great examples of par 4's in KC. At Ted's Dread, holes 1, 3, 11 (long tee), 14, 15, and 18 (long tee/pin). Several at Blue Valley as well.

There is a lot of good information already written about par concepts. The par document mentioned shows 4 different "levels" of play. Gold is 1000 rated golf. Blue is 950. Red 900. White 850. While the game needs a professional standard, thus the use of gold level for the courses "scratch scoring averages", you can see how using a standard for course par or hole par that is closer to your levlel of play would make the terms "birdie" or "par" more relevant to each of us.

Probably because I have not sent in everything yet......was planning on doing that last week, then got burglarized, and well....all the info went with it, sort of, now waiting on all new bank accounts and stuff....Sorry for the delay but it is all on me.