Likes:Drakengards - the sequel added extra details to the first game while supplying a much better streamlined new story of its own.Shadow Hearts Covenant - just an overall cool game with great scenes.Suikoden II - easily the best political plot.Xenosaga - epic.

My dislikes would be a lot longer if I actually continued playing some games to just hate on them, but I don't. Therefore my list comes from games from series I usually enjoy, but extremely disappointed in:Final Fantasy XII (12) - one huge snoozefest with no exciting or memorable moments.Tales of Legendia - good character development? Nah, this was a case of a whole cast needing to act their age and grow up.

Tales of the Abyss - not only is it amazing, but it's a Tales game? The series defined by how woefully generic it is? It's mostly good stuff, especially towards the end, where the game delves into all sorts of issues that you just don't see in RPGs.

Since the odds of me every playing TotA again are non-existent, what are the interesting themes that come up towards the end? I'm curious.

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Final Fantasy XII - what can I say, I'm a sucker for political plots.

I have to admit not getting very far in this -- up to like, uh... the... wood place. Where the Vieras live -- but when DOES it get political? I just remember a bunch of disjointed crap about deifacted nethicyte. I sort of stopped paying attention after Basch had an evil twin brother.

For the first...I'm going to keep it as vague as possible, but talking about it is in spoiler territory. Dice went into it in part but there was a particular element I really enjoyed.

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A major theme is about the sanctity of life - the value is for a person's life. Some people don't like it because it's nihilistic, but I find it rather neat

For the second, I think you pretty much already hit up most of the political stuff so eh, most people didn't really care for FFXII.

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It's never too late to start learning; it's always too early to stop learning.

Xenosaga I-III: Xenosaga explores a great deal of themes such as freedom, the value of life, etc. in a way I've seen few video games do.

Suikoden III and V: Great political stories, with meaningful characters.

Final Fantasy XII: Great political story with themes such as freedom with a new angle.

Final Fantasy X: Great characters and relationships and themes like death and religion.

Dissapointed:

FInal Fantasy VIII: It had a good premise but the execution was atrocious.

In RPGs I tend to focus on the execution of themes and characters and their relationships. If a plot doesn't have a strong theme to convey through efficient dialogue and character interaction then it has failed it's purpose.

by in large, I find Abyss to be one of those few games that has a mediocre idea, but is executed phenomenally. The reality is, the actual STORY to TotA is pretty terrible: lots of pseudo-scientific bullshit, and a spaz-tacular progression that has you running around like a chicken with its head cut off... and loving it. While the overarching story is crap, all the details are gems. The characters are wonderful, one of the finest casts ever seen in an RPG. The dialog is perfection, the voice-acting top-notch. And even though the actual plot is banal, the themes it touches on along the way extremely maturely executed.

One of the major themes is: how does one face reconciliation in light of doing something absolutely horrific. Many other RPGs have touched on this, usually as an afterthought. Hell, you could even claim that as one of the themes of FF4. However, TotA dives in a whole lot more deeply into the psychological repercussions than I've ever seen a game do before. How do other people view you afterwards? How do you regain their trust? How do you trust yourself? These are all very difficult questions, with few clear answers, and it takes the characters the entire game to really reconcile their feelings.

The other theme that, while not game spanning, I thought was done fantastically was: what is worth giving your life for? At a few specific times, characters are faced with the possibility that dieing will actually save people's lives. No... not "suicide missions" where everyone comes back alive from (ME2, I'm looking at you). I'm talking about going to some place TO DIE. I know, strange concept, right? Probably a bit cheesy. But the grace in which the Tales teem executes this is far superior to all games with similarly grandiose themes.

Saying TotA has a great story is sorta like saying Jim Carrey is a great actor... wait... I had an analogy there, but I lost it. Sorry.

The other theme that, while not game spanning, I thought was done fantastically was: what is worth giving your life for? At a few specific times, characters are faced with the possibility that dieing will actually save people's lives. No... not "suicide missions" where everyone comes back alive from (ME2, I'm looking at you). I'm talking about going to some place TO DIE. I know, strange concept, right? Probably a bit cheesy. But the grace in which the Tales teem executes this is far superior to all games with similarly grandiose themes.

This bit reminds me of the final months of Persona 3.

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You know, when you decide to face Nyx even knowing you theorically won't stand a chance. You're fighting for the sake of people that aren't even aware that there is a big battle going on.

I thought it was rather well-done and left me thinking for a while after beating the game.

All the D&D CRPG's from the past 10-15 years have had, at the very least, competent stories. BG2 and Planescape in particular set the bar in my mind for what a successful Western RPG needs to accomplish in terms of story. While BG2's story is miles ahead of the BG1, it benefits from the character development from the original game right off the bat. Minsc in particular is always a madcap, I'm-here-to-be-the-comic-relief sort of character, but his personal story takes on more significance in BG2 since he wants to redeem himself for losing Dynaheir in BG1.

Planescape's story becomes all the more wonderful when you realize that most of the game mechanics are fairly mediocre. Combat is pretty dull for a D&D game (and especially for a game using the awesome Planescape setting), so it's really the plot that pulls you forward, making it really tough to quit once it hits its stride early on.

I also have to say that I'm really liking Neverwinter Nights 2 right now. The story in the original game did nothing for me; it tried to be epic and mysterious but I think it fell flat. NWN2 is also full of cliches, but I think the added emphasis on the story brings out all the cool stuff in the Forgotten Realms.

I can't believe I forgot FF8. which probably has one of the worst plots in the history of RPGs.

It wasn't bad per se... It just sort of...took numerous directions. First it was missions, then witches, then time distortions.

My bias for Star Ocean 2 (the first RPG I beat nearly completely, one of my first game loves) is finding it hard to type this. But, while the story wasn't half bad. The second disc (Nede) makes Expel look like a joke. You walk around touting the "hero of light" bullshit, trying to figure out what the evil sorcery globe is, you get ancient documents (which are never given the chance to be translated; unless you see one characters specific ending), and all for an amazing weapon that doesn't even work.

Then bad shit happens and you're in Nede. Story isn't too hot there either, but whatever. I won't bore you.I think that game, something that Tri-Ace does well instead in aspect to their games' story lines, is that you're in it for the characters. They're all unique, fun, and a bit mysterious, and they play well one each other.

I can't believe I forgot FF8. which probably has one of the worst plots in the history of RPGs.

It wasn't bad per se... It just sort of...took numerous directions. First it was missions, then witches, then time distortions.

My bias for Star Ocean 2 (the first RPG I beat nearly completely, one of my first game loves) is finding it hard to type this. But, while the story wasn't half bad. The second disc (Nede) makes Expel look like a joke. You walk around touting the "hero of light" bullshit, trying to figure out what the evil sorcery globe is, you get ancient documents (which are never given the chance to be translated; unless you see one characters specific ending), and all for an amazing weapon that doesn't even work.

Then bad shit happens and you're in Nede. Story isn't too hot there either, but whatever. I won't bore you.I think that game, something that Tri-Ace does well instead in aspect to their games' story lines, is that you're in it for the characters. They're all unique, fun, and a bit mysterious, and they play well one each other.

And that's considered the better game compared to both of it's sequels (and probably Blue Sphere ass well) for very good reasons.

Final Fantasy VII: I love how 'someone' dies, how Sephiroth goes from good guy to insane, and so much more.

Mass Effect: The setting alone were enough to draw me in, but the way things keep happening, like Saren, who has betraid the council, then comes the Geth, and then the Reapears, I thought the game had some problems but what certainly made play to the end was the story.

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic: So many different characters, all with lots to say, you being able to be good or bad and see it affects tha game, especially near the end when you find some kick ass truth about yourself.

Valkyrie Profile 2: It starts slow, but as go and the gods want you and other Valkyries come and all it only gets better.

Disappointing:

Star Ocean 3:To make it short, they make you believe you are going to travel through the stars but you are stuck in this medievel game for about 80% of the game or more. Even though the ending ass crazy I like it, but not enough to make up for the crappy rest of the story.

Dragon Quest VIII: The story starts simple, but it works. Until you have to do lots of useless tasks to help people around just to get on your way to fight Dhoulmagus, but still, this isn't the problem. The real problem for me comes after Dhoulmagus, as if the plot just lost track and the developers decided to make a mess of everything and each guy put whatever they thought were nice.

I actually liked how SaGa Frontier's story didn't explain jack. It made everything seem more mysterious and interesting to me.

SaGa Frontier, and in fact most of the SaGa series, tells it's stories through visual information rather then text or dialogue. The game never TELLS you anything about Furdo and his workshop, but you can extrapolate his story pretty easily just by wandering through it and taking in all the visual information they provide.

The Bio Lab was what did it for me, actually. I really wonder--if they'd explained what it was for, at all, would it have still been as creepy, anomalous, and slightly fucked up?

The answer is most certainly no, because they DO explain it in the Perfect Works or Ultimecia or whatever the hellz those guides are and whatever the explanation was... honestly, I don't even remember it, which is probably saying a lot.

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o/` I do not feel joy o/`o/` I do not dream o/`o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`