tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post530501530971972025..comments2016-08-31T13:30:34.405-04:00Comments on Rationally Speaking: Only the platform: Patricia Churchland’s science of moralityAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comBlogger140125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-90966693970180795002011-05-22T23:44:04.561-04:002011-05-22T23:44:04.561-04:00Baron
It is an opportunity to help others underst...Baron<br /><br />It is an opportunity to help others understand what you are saying. You have repeatedly discussed the idea of purpose in evolution on this blog. So, it is germane to this blog. Please reconsider discussing the significance of the claims you have made on this blog....if those claims were indeed true. It would help everyone that has discussed this subject, on this blog, to better understand what you are saying.DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-79221118343377546872011-05-22T22:05:59.404-04:002011-05-22T22:05:59.404-04:00As I&#39;ve said repeatedly before, I&#39;m not go...As I&#39;ve said repeatedly before, I&#39;m not going to discuss my theories about anything on this blog that are not relevant to the subject at hand or otherwise appropriate to the taking of the space provided for discussion here.Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-31652574408451330192011-05-22T20:19:11.618-04:002011-05-22T20:19:11.618-04:00Baron
Knowing the significance that you attach to ...Baron<br />Knowing the significance that you attach to your belief about purpose in evolution and humans would help in understanding your statements concerning purpose. I would very much like to understand what you are claiming to be true. Knowing the significance of those claims being true would really be a help. Thank you.DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-47706415393534332532011-05-19T18:25:21.379-04:002011-05-19T18:25:21.379-04:00It serves here as an irritant.It serves here as an irritant.Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-20786765559866053082011-05-19T13:00:31.424-04:002011-05-19T13:00:31.424-04:00Baron
Has anyone on this blog ever asked you what ...Baron<br />Has anyone on this blog ever asked you what importance there would be or what significance your position on purpose have if it were true rather than not true? <br />What would be the significance of discovering that there was indeed purpose in evolution....or that humans evolved to have purpose. What difference would that make to anything?DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-6029441104583865882011-05-19T12:06:27.520-04:002011-05-19T12:06:27.520-04:00That was a post title, not a statement in the body...That was a post title, not a statement in the body of my commentary. In any case the commentary explains the meaning of the title. And again has nothing to do with this blog or this blog post.Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-9394170883007418152011-05-19T11:41:17.214-04:002011-05-19T11:41:17.214-04:00Baron
From your web site....
Thursday, October 14...Baron<br />From your web site....<br /><br />Thursday, October 14, 2010<br />We are all purposive<br />Strategies and their functional apparatus exist for a purpose, they are algorithmic structures, they enable choice making by providing a range of optional responses to stimuli. These tactical responses are probative and expectant. They enable comparative analysis, relating expectations to feedback, assigning relevant meaning to the data accordingly. They allow for storage of results and continued analysis of data from the feedback loop, adjusting the relevance of the stored results accordingly. In short, they allow for learning. They form the structures of biological intelligence.DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-85921336359176200402011-05-19T00:13:59.744-04:002011-05-19T00:13:59.744-04:00There is no such statement on my site. If there w...There is no such statement on my site. If there were, you wouldn&#39;t have to ask me if I disagreed with it. Instead you&#39;ve twisted something written there just as you&#39;ve earlier twisted something written here by Massimo. The statements in each instance had been rendered meaningless.<br />In any case this has nothing to do with this blog and the subject being addressed on this post, so you may not be done here but I am.Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-21648757189623741142011-05-18T23:04:39.834-04:002011-05-18T23:04:39.834-04:00baron
I got that quote from your web site. Do you ...baron<br />I got that quote from your web site. Do you disagree with this statement (of yours)? If not....what would be significance of that being true?DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-78710723227389390542011-05-18T19:35:25.526-04:002011-05-18T19:35:25.526-04:00Sorry but I don&#39;t recognize that quote as mine...Sorry but I don&#39;t recognize that quote as mine. In any case that&#39;s a subject that we beat to death here last month and is not presently on this blog&#39;s agenda.Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-1687495669262495962011-05-18T17:17:47.511-04:002011-05-18T17:17:47.511-04:00Baron
You believe that &quot;We are all purposive&...Baron<br />You believe that &quot;We are all purposive&quot; If that is true, can you tell me what significance that would have if it turned out to be true? <br />ThanksDJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-16799090838669943572011-05-17T22:08:32.067-04:002011-05-17T22:08:32.067-04:00Baron
Thank you for your input and good night.Baron<br />Thank you for your input and good night.DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-83313534788969052972011-05-17T20:51:37.242-04:002011-05-17T20:51:37.242-04:00Yes, but as it was my original intent to point out...Yes, but as it was my original intent to point out, and still remains so, you&#39;ve neglected to consider what the certain given facts of human nature are that apply to human upon human cruelty.<br />X causes Y is pointless if you omit the conditionals.<br />All the rest of what you say just becomes so much gibberish.Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-29610032579085097772011-05-17T19:41:16.567-04:002011-05-17T19:41:16.567-04:00Baron
My statements were in response to statement ...Baron<br />My statements were in response to statement made by Massimo...&quot;when I say that &quot;X is immoral?&quot; Broadly, what I mean is that - given certain facts / assumptions about human nature, X is immoral is X significantly hampers one&#39;s ability to flourish&quot;<br />I simply used his stated &#39;meaning of the word &#39;immoral&#39; in place of the word &quot;immoral&quot;....so that the statement now reads &quot;X significantly hampers one&#39;s ability to flourish&quot; As you can see....this brings clarity to what Massimo meant when he said &quot;Torturing a baby is immoral&quot;...It now reads &quot;torturing a baby hampers one&#39;s ability to flourish&quot; In addition to more clarity...this move creates a statement of fact in the form &quot;X causes Y&quot; rather than the previous ontological or ethical statement. If all the move accomplished was increased clarity and understanding.....that would be a positive from my point of view regarding the role of modern day philosophy.DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-60481436585802194862011-05-17T18:16:59.442-04:002011-05-17T18:16:59.442-04:00And you made no claim about the immorality of tort...And you made no claim about the immorality of torture as well? Then I guess we&#39;re done here.Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-41136888470514006312011-05-17T17:00:29.347-04:002011-05-17T17:00:29.347-04:00Baron
Please read my previous exchange with Massim...Baron<br />Please read my previous exchange with Massimo.<br />I am making no claim regarding the morality of torture....whether or not it is connected to reason or intention.DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-70852872682831816072011-05-17T16:38:58.064-04:002011-05-17T16:38:58.064-04:00So was the point of pointing out what the other pe...So was the point of pointing out what the other person said simply to point out that you agreed with it, even though you&#39;d left the &#39;for fun&#39; in there and got it wrong? <br />Because if you now see it as reduced to some direct sequencing of causation to effect, you&#39;ve missed the point again. Which would be the explanation of why you think torture as an action separate from reason or intention hampers the ability to flourish, when torture may in fact at some time in the past have effectively increased our ability to flourish simply as an example of what we needed to develop the ability to avoid.Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-72592958979450720102011-05-17T15:06:31.508-04:002011-05-17T15:06:31.508-04:00Baron
Remove the &quot;for fun&quot; from the sent...Baron<br />Remove the &quot;for fun&quot; from the sentence. I am making no moral claim....moral or immoral. I am pointing out that another person has stated that when they use the word &#39;immoral&#39; in a sentence of the type &quot;x is immoral&quot; their meaning of &#39;immoral&#39; is &quot;hampers their ability to flourish&quot; So....if one substitutes &quot;hampers their ability to flourish&quot; for the word &#39;immoral&#39; in the sentence &quot;torturing an infant is immoral&quot; one gets &quot;torturing an infant hampers their ability to flourish&quot; I make no claims as to the morality or immorality of torturing an infant. The party that I cite has changed his original statement from an ontological statement or an ethical statement, to a statement regarding cause and effect. To what torturing an infant causes.DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-17010066097916371932011-05-16T22:42:35.157-04:002011-05-16T22:42:35.157-04:00But you leave open the implication that torturing ...But you leave open the implication that torturing them for other than fun doesn&#39;t hamper them, and obviously that makes the statement meaningless as to any difference between the moral and immoral aspects of torture.Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-12860940495379553892011-05-16T20:07:47.654-04:002011-05-16T20:07:47.654-04:00Baron
I am not positing that at all. My point is t...Baron<br />I am not positing that at all. My point is to say that &quot;X is moral OR immoral&quot; needs to be clarified in the most simple of ways....at least where the speaker is still available for continued conversation, unlike discussing the meaning of a term in a novel....where authorial clarification is not available. In this case...the speaker has stated that by &#39;immoral&#39; in the statement &quot;X is immoral&quot; that he means &quot;hampers their ability to flourish&quot;. If that meaning of &#39;immoral&#39; is carried over to the sentence regarding torturing infants for fun....then one can use the author&#39;s stated meaning of &#39;immoral&#39; and the sentence becomes &quot;torturing infants for fun hampers it&#39;s ability to flourish&quot; This replacement of the &quot;is moral&quot; with a statement of what the torture causes..&quot;hampers the infant from it&#39;s ability to flourish&quot; and thus removes some of the &quot;bewitchment of our minds by language&quot; as Wittgenstein would say.DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-79610417512265204392011-05-16T18:15:05.011-04:002011-05-16T18:15:05.011-04:00It raises a question as to whether you can spot wh...It raises a question as to whether you can spot what&#39;s wrong with your example of seeing immorality as simply the opposite of morality.Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-30816786623290136572011-05-16T17:52:23.240-04:002011-05-16T17:52:23.240-04:00Baron
I am not quite clear about &quot;Would moral...Baron<br />I am not quite clear about &quot;Would morality then lie in the exercise of power&quot; (To slightly paraphrase you). What does it mean for &quot;morality to lie in the exercise of power&quot;?DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-54966109414027635882011-05-16T17:28:45.569-04:002011-05-16T17:28:45.569-04:00&quot;torturing infants for fun hampers their abil...&quot;torturing infants for fun hampers their ability to flourish&quot;<br />Except that if it&#39;s fun to flourish, refraining from the fun of torturing infants then hampers your ability to thrive as well. Would morality then lie more in the exercise of power than power in the exercise of morality?Baron Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04138430918331887648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-88826007411151670292011-05-16T15:14:07.066-04:002011-05-16T15:14:07.066-04:00Massimo
Thank you for clarifying what you mean whe...Massimo<br />Thank you for clarifying what you mean when you say that X is immoral. That is a very clear explanation. Since it is now clear that your use of the word &#39;immoral&#39; in this and similar contexts is &quot;X hampers one&#39;s ability to flourish&quot; we can easily do without the confusing word &#39;immoral&#39;and instead simply say &quot;torturing infants for fun hampers their ability to flourish&quot; I wish everyone would clarify their use of that confusing word in the same way....by substituting a more clear word or phrase. Thank you.DJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634608128841501265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15005476.post-2162328958814110372011-05-16T14:48:38.974-04:002011-05-16T14:48:38.974-04:00DJD, well, if you read what I wrote on morality sh...DJD, well, if you read what I wrote on morality shouldn&#39;t you know what I mean when I say that &quot;X is immoral?&quot; Broadly, what I mean is that - given certain facts / assumptions about human nature, X is immoral is X significantly hampers one&#39;s ability to flourish, in the Aristotelian (eudaimonic) sense of flourishing.Massimo Pigliuccihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099460671669064269noreply@blogger.com