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Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by NAM61

why learn weak jutsus when he has A plus rank in the rasengan and KB also looks at others kakashi has what 1000 jutsus but only reliesd on a couple same with sasuke after getting the Ms he only uses sussanno and ameratsu. it is something people dont get heroes in this mangas dont get much moves. and naruto has sage mode so he does not have to worry about the kyuubi. what are weak c or b wind jutsus gonna help vs his current opponents. just a waste.

IT doesn't have to be a weak jutsu as you said, you mentioned assume.... Sasuke can use chidori defense and offensive . attack and they arent weak jutsu and another one for example kirin, plus sasuke fire style isn't weak jutsu also..

living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

1) He has the potential to obtain it, meaning in the future he can match Naruto's power.
This without considering the scroll's massive power-up

2) Search syx's beautiful post regarding Kakashi's chakra, stamina and chakra aren't issues anymore, Sasuke will be able to keep Susano'o activated for years, should the plot demand it

3) Said Kyuubi was Madara's and Obito's pet.
So?

4) Sasuke's Sharingan can copy jutsus, anticipate movements, bind in a genjutsu, create hellish flames, create a stronger genjutsu and create a huge chakra construct capable of launching balls of unestinguishable flames.
The only things that come to a price are Izanami and Izanagi, and I doubt even Kishi would make jutsus that alter reality free of charge

5) He had the same kind of vision Itachi had when he fought Sasuke, and he was almost blind. Another fight and he would be blind half-way from it.

1) We don't know that. Each MS user is different. Itachi excelled at genjutsu with Tsukiyomi, Sasuke with Amaterasu, Madara with Sussano. You are assuming he can achieve it. And the scroll has nothing to do with EMS so I have no clue why you brought that up.

2) Ummm, no. Kakashi nearly killed himself if not for Kurama. Obito kicked the shit out of him in a fashion no ninja ever has, and it's not like he's so fast Kakashi couldn't defend himself.

3) You spoke of power equal to it. The Kyuubi's power is strong enough where it took the entire Konoha shinobi force to hold it back. Not even mortal Madara or Hashirama has that kind of power to fight it, Nagato proved he didn't and he fought a half whole, partially developed Kyuubi.

The power to control or submit in the way the Sharigan does, is not the power to destroy or defeat in combat.

4) The Kyuubi can heal all of Naruto's wounds, give him unlimited chakra, gives him a speed and strength boost, gives him additional arms, gives him the ability to use the strongest physical attack in the manga. He's also invulnerable to genjutsu with it and also somehow granted him greater chakra control. O, and he has all of Kurama's knowledge and battle prowess. The comparison isn't even close.

5) And a half blind Itachi was able to throttle pre-MS Sasuke. Sasuke being half blind doesn't take away from how powerful he is.

Last edited by Delbi; November 30, 2012 at 09:33 PM.

"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by KiSwordsman

Point taken. However, due to the fact that Kishimoto has ignored the Byakugan, it makes it hard to care about it. While it can be appreciated, given the fact that it's the most grounded of the three, I can't bring myself to give a crap about it. In the face of the Sharingan and Rinnegan, the Byakugan is entirely insignificant. Unless of course, Kishimoto decides to change that with this upcoming battle.

Well, true it is insignificant, but that's pretty much the case for anything not craved off Hashirama or possessing multiple chakra tails. I suppose it's just depends on what exactly a reader is looking for in the series.

Originally Posted by dex

naruto can be smart sometime and sasuke does use his brain sometimes...still that guy has been manipulated by others all his life...imo many people had life full of tragedies...still why does this boyhave to act so special...i just dont get it...he is too arrogant and cocky to even understand that there are some people who actually understand his worthless worth...just my personal opinion...

There's a big difference between going along with someone because it's beneficial to do so and being manipulated. Sasuke went along with Orochimaru and Obito because it helped with his own goals and desires. The moment they were no longer useful to him, he betrayed them at the first opportunity. The only person to really manipulate him was Itachi and even that didn't exactly work out the way he wanted.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by EMS

IT doesn't have to be a weak jutsu as you said, you mentioned assume.... Sasuke can use chidori defense and offensive . attack and they arent weak jutsu and another one for example kirin, plus sasuke fire style isn't weak jutsu also..

Maybe t'was jiraya's fault. He trained naruto but at the same time he was busy with his book. If jiraiya train naruto on his chakra nature, then naruto must already have the frs in gaara's arc. Then maybe jiraiya can teach naruto on how to create his own wind jutsus. Or the best of all, jiraiya can teach naruto on how to create a powerful tornado jutsu.

But sad to say, naruto's weakness is ninjutsu. While his master is a perverted writer. And sasuke's master, orochimaru is a ninjutsu maniac. That's why sasuke knows alot of stuff/jutsu than naruto.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by dex

naruto can be smart sometime and sasuke does use his brain sometimes...still that guy has been manipulated by others all his life...imo many people had life full of tragedies...still why does this boyhave to act so special...i just dont get it...he is too arrogant and cocky to even understand that there are some people who actually understand his worthless worth...just my personal opinion...

Huh? You accuse Sasuke for not having a mind of his own and now accuse him of wanting to be special? Well, which one is it? Sounds like you hate him and you don't even know why. Whether people understood him or not is quite irrelevant because at the end, they all just wanted him to do and act the way they wanted. And how can you possibly say that you understand somebody when all you do is want them to act the way that you do. That, is the real arrogance. Perhaps John Blake from TDKR said it best. "Not a lot of people know what it feels like to be angry, in your bones. I mean, they understand, foster parents, everybody understands, for awhile. Then they want the angry little kid to do something he knows he can't do, move on. So after awhile they stop understanding."

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Quote:

prove Naruto isn't a retard/stupid

To some people this is like trying to 'prove' a political point. It really isn't possible because they are so biased. There really are some people that are so intellectually damaged by their prejudices and emotions that they make themselves invulnerable to any sort of intellectual, rational discussion. I will attempt to explain why "I" do not think Naruto is a retard/idiot - but we have to allow that there is a small group of people who are so pig-headed about the subject that they cannot be reasoned with and must therefore be relegated to an intellectual ash-heap on this matter.

The substance of the argument "against" Naruto can really be boiled down to the fact that there are people out there who think he is naive to the point where the things he says are the equivalent of someone who picks up a brick and says, "This is a duck". When Naruto stares people like Obito in the face and tells them, "I'm going to defeat you, change the Ninja world, and become the Hokage!" it is like he is running his fingernails on a chalkboard to the "Anti Naruto" (or "AN" crowd from here on out).

It is not possible to overstate just how STUPID the "AN" guys think Naruto is when he says things like this. They are approaching the story from the typical point of view of a Post Modern reader. They want realism. They want grit. They want blood. They want angst. They want Naruto to stop being such a naive, simplistic, hopeful, HERO. Instead, they want him to start acting world-weary, complicated, dispairing, and more like an anti-hero - even if it is only just a LITTLE. They wish he'd show some doubt, second-guess his objectives, and (gosh darn it!) quit being so indefagitably POSITIVE...! The fact that Naruto is still saying/doing things that make them so mad (after 600 chapters) just chaps their hides and they think that only someone who is genuinely retarded (IE an actual mental illness) could still be acting like this.

This really is the only plausible argument that the "AN" camp has. Everything else fails prima facie. To say Naruto is 'stupid' is not accurate, because he's actually quite intelligent and clever. He doesn't have classroom or book smarts, but he routinely outsmarts people all the time. Even 'geniuses' like Sasuke, Kakuzu, Nagato, and Itachi have been punked by Naruto. So he isn't stupid intellectually. You can't say he doesn't 'train hard' because he does (see previous post). You can't say all he does is rely on the QB, because without using the Kyuubi at all he mastered the FRS jutsu (which even Minato couldn't do) and Sage mode (way faster and more perfectlly than Jiraya did). All of these ancillary attacks that "AN" people make are all easily disproved by even the most simplistic, basic listing of events in the manga. They are distractions, and really are so easily dismissed that they practically don't even bear mentioning. The REAL root of what really irritates the "AN" folks is what they consider to be Naruto's philosophical naivety and that he doesn't 'act' like how they want him to.

Such people are tilting at windmills. Kishimoto is writing a story about how love, hope, and faith are superior to hate, despair, and doubt. People always believe that philosophers who adhere to the principles of love/hope/faith are pathetic, naive, and stupid. People thought Christ was naive and stupid. People thought Ghandi was naive and stupid. People thought MLK was naive and stupid. That's just how it is. Real men of actual CHARACTER... The men who really change the world because they have a dream and stick to it are seen as stupid and naive to those who are mired in doubt. "Men of the World" adopt this sort of world-weary, "woe is me" attitude and they look down their noses at anyone who doesn't have as bleak an outlook as themselves. That's what's really going on here. A bunch of people think that the world sucks, and that hate/anger can't be defeated by rainbows and ballon-icorns. So people like Naruto who come along saying, "I'm gonna take on all the hate and make the world a better place" might as well be drooling simpletons to the "AN" crowd.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

It really has nothing to do with him having "faith" and acting on something. Minato, Jiraiya, Sarutobi, Kakashi, Itachi all went around acting upon faith. Even Sasuke and Madara have their own faith they go around believing in. Doesn't stop any of them from being silly or jovial yet kick-ass serious when the time calls for it. Very few had a problem with P1 Naruto, who was easily more naive and positive then current Naruto. But P1 Naruto didn't go around acting that way all the time. When the situation called for it, he could get his butt into gear and act like a real hero. There's a clear difference between the awesome, hero inspiring Naruto that kicked Pain's ass and proved his own path and the current Naruto that's done crap against Obito & Madara.

The entire point of self-doubt and questioning one's actions is that it leads to greater character development. The conclusion gain out of one situation wouldn't apply to every situation afterward. Those philosophers you mention all had several moments of inner reflection. none of them simply believed one thing and kept going. they adapted as things changed.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by marshall313

Maybe t'was jiraya's fault. He trained naruto but at the same time he was busy with his book. If jiraiya train naruto on his chakra nature, then naruto must already have the frs in gaara's arc. Then maybe jiraiya can teach naruto on how to create his own wind jutsus. Or the best of all, jiraiya can teach naruto on how to create a powerful tornado jutsu.

But sad to say, naruto's weakness is ninjutsu. While his master is a perverted writer. And sasuke's master, orochimaru is a ninjutsu maniac. That's why sasuke knows alot of stuff/jutsu than naruto.

Jiraiya's biggest fault was leaving a teenager kid with Rinnegan (Nagato) on his own, open to manipulation. He was at least with Naruto until he died. And I doubt Jiraiya was going to be able to help Naruto with wind style. He wasn't a wind style user, after all.

That doesn't explain it, to be honest. Naruto is also Kakashi's pupil and Kakashi is known as the copy ninja who knows a ton of ninjutsu. It's just that getting a hold of things isn't that easy for Naruto, so, he can't be expected to use an arsenal of jutsus.
Naruto will never be a versatile Shinobi. If he gets a ninjutsu that possesses more power than FRS, then it'll be Kage Bunshin + that attack. He'll keep it simple.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by Rikudou King

There's a big difference between going along with someone because it's beneficial to do so and being manipulated. Sasuke went along with Orochimaru and Obito because it helped with his own goals and desires. The moment they were no longer useful to him, he betrayed them at the first opportunity. The only person to really manipulate him was Itachi and even that didn't exactly work out the way he wanted.

if a person is a nutcase and full of unnecessary emotions its easy to give him directions or in a sense manipulate him...ofc nobody would order sasuke around to do their biddings but you can convince him to hate someone easily than others...due to the way sasuke was people took advantage of him...making him leave konoha was one of the ways he was manipulated...

Originally Posted by chilibun

Huh? You accuse Sasuke for not having a mind of his own and now accuse him of wanting to be special? Well, which one is it? Sounds like you hate him and you don't even know why. Whether people understood him or not is quite irrelevant because at the end, they all just wanted him to do and act the way they wanted. And how can you possibly say that you understand somebody when all you do is want them to act the way that you do. That, is the real arrogance. Perhaps John Blake from TDKR said it best. "Not a lot of people know what it feels like to be angry, in your bones. I mean, they understand, foster parents, everybody understands, for awhile. Then they want the angry little kid to do something he knows he can't do, move on. So after awhile they stop understanding."

did you even read what i said ??? did i say he wanted to be special ?? i said "have to act special" there is a difference between those...i don't hate sasuke...i just think that as a character his reasons are not fully justified...and about his hatred it was ok till the point he killed itachi after that guy was so entangled with hatred that whatever the remains of his brain were there got lost completely...its like ok i need to find someone to take revenge...once i take revenge from that guy ill find another one...even after kabuto fight orochimaru says "itachi brainwashed him again"...people were brainwashing him all his life

whatever the reason anger is never justified...he could have eventually taken revenge if he stayed in konoha...so why did he leave ? coz of jealousy and his inner insecurity (that he will not be strong ever)...instead of training more and more he got jealous of naruto ...he could not tolerate when naruto got stronger than him...this is arrogance...he did not have guts to face his real self and get stronger by fair means...incompetant people like this always look for easy ways to get strong and thus move to the dark side...sasuke is mixed up of all the negative emotions in narutoverse...

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by dex

if a person is a nutcase and full of unnecessary emotions its easy to give him directions or in a sense manipulate him...ofc nobody would order sasuke around to do their biddings but you can convince him to hate someone easily than others...due to the way sasuke was people took advantage of him...making him leave konoha was one of the ways he was manipulated...

did you even read what i said ??? did i say he wanted to be special ?? i said "have to act special" there is a difference between those...i don't hate sasuke...i just think that as a character his reasons are not fully justified...and about his hatred it was ok till the point he killed itachi after that guy was so entangled with hatred that whatever the remains of his brain were there got lost completely...its like ok i need to find someone to take revenge...once i take revenge from that guy ill find another one...even after kabuto fight orochimaru says "itachi brainwashed him again"...people were brainwashing him all his life

whatever the reason anger is never justified...he could have eventually taken revenge if he stayed in konoha...so why did he leave ? coz of jealousy and his inner insecurity (that he will not be strong ever)...instead of training more and more he got jealous of naruto ...he could not tolerate when naruto got stronger than him...this is arrogance...he did not have guts to face his real self and get stronger by fair means...incompetant people like this always look for easy ways to get strong and thus move to the dark side...sasuke is mixed up of all the negative emotions in narutoverse...

That's damn for sure. You got it bro.

They said sasuke is a super genius. But the problem with him is he can't do anything on his own. He don't want to train his butt off and use his super duper intelligence to make himself stronger. Orochimaru gave him the curse seal, and what did he do? He likes his new free power, ans he's not contented, he goes directly to orochimaru to asked some more. ''Orochimaru give me the power I want for my revenge''. What a pathetic fellow.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by dex

did you even read what i said ??? did i say he wanted to be special ?? i said "have to act special" there is a difference between those...i don't hate sasuke...i just think that as a character his reasons are not fully justified...and about his hatred it was ok till the point he killed itachi after that guy was so entangled with hatred that whatever the remains of his brain were there got lost completely...its like ok i need to find someone to take revenge...once i take revenge from that guy ill find another one...even after kabuto fight orochimaru says "itachi brainwashed him again"...people were brainwashing him all his life

whatever the reason anger is never justified...he could have eventually taken revenge if he stayed in konoha...so why did he leave ? coz of jealousy and his inner insecurity (that he will not be strong ever)...instead of training more and more he got jealous of naruto ...he could not tolerate when naruto got stronger than him...this is arrogance...he did not have guts to face his real self and get stronger by fair means...incompetant people like this always look for easy ways to get strong and thus move to the dark side...sasuke is mixed up of all the negative emotions in narutoverse...

Ok, if I misunderstood you, please elaborate on what's the difference between trying to be special and trying to act special. Either way, it seems like you are just against him being or acting against what other people want him to be. Pain and hatred needs no "justification" from others. Its merely a feeling and nobody can tell another person that they can't or shouldn't feel a certain way. That's exactly why I say people only claim they understand, but they really don't because they can't accept it and tries to impose their own will on him.

What brain wash? Sasuke never did anything he didn't truly wanted to do. The only person who manipulated and deceived him was Itachi. Orochimaru and Obito merely offered there assistance in exchange for his services. They were mutually using each other. And you're quote of Orochimaru after the Kabuto fight is wrong. He said that Sasuke WAS manipulated by Itachi and that he is far different now than when he and Tobi were using him.

Again, saying anger is never justified is bullshit. Nobody has the right to tell another person how they should act or feel, regardless of whether you agree with them or not. Sasuke also didn't leave because he was jealous of Naruto. He left because Naruto's growth made him realize his own weakness. That at his pace, he would never be able to defeat Itachi. Note that this was immediately following his ass whoopin by Itachi. It was never about Naruto or jealousy. Honestly, I think he needed to leave. He never would be as strong as he is if had stayed under Kakashi's tutelage vs. under Orochimaru. Calling his decision to leave the easy way out is just dismissive, as if he didn't need to train under Oro. Oro didn't magically made him powerful. He was simply a better teacher than anybody else in Konoha.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by Montai

Wow. Look at all of the targets that just showed up. Also, do I really need to express how useless the medic squad is, since all of juubi's attacks are instant death attacks XD In the end, I could see Naruto taking a blow so that no one gets hurt, and almost being killed. We could end up seeing another Obito style sacrifice happen.

in fact,they just healed kakashi,gai,probably bee too,dunno if naruto was healed too,as he said sakura "kakashi first!" btw,the medical squad should now look for the kages,it'd be a way to see them again!