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Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:39:31 +0300
Message-ID:
Subject: Re: Google Summer of Code 2009
From: Alexei Fedotov
To: dev@harmony.apache.org
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Sorry, Jimmy, for a misprint.
2009/3/19 Alexei Fedotov :
> Sian, Jummy,
> Some of our recent projects on the Wiki page may put help of an
> English speaker to a good use. What do you think?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> 2009/3/19 Sian January :
>> Google have officially announced the organisations selected for GSoC,
>> which includes the ASF[1]
>>
>> I think we need to copy our project list on to the ASF Wiki[2] fairly
>> soon as students will be starting to look at the list from now on.
>>
>> Could everyone make sure our Wiki page is up to date over the next few
>> days so we can copy it over next week?
>>
>> [1]http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009
>> [2] http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2009
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv :
>>> Hi Alexei,
>>>
>>> =9A =9A Thanks for suggests and comments! Your question are very helpfu=
l
>>> to me to think more and understand the deeper requirements.
>>>
>>> =9A =9A Yes I see the other proposals have some spec already, I'll star=
t
>>> to write down the spec and design. As that wiki page is only for
>>> proposal, I'll open new pages(will add link on the proposal page).
>>> =9A =9A Please correct me if I make more mistakes, thanks a lot!
>>>
>>> 2009/3/18 Alexei Fedotov :
>>>> Jimmy,
>>>>
>>>> As for your questions, I have a strong belief that a mentor should
>>>> have 90% of a proper GSoC project design before suggesting the project
>>>> to students even if students are supposed to design the whole project.
>>>> I think there is still place for analysis and thinking about your
>>>> projects .
>>>>
>>>> Good luck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv :
>>>>> Hi Alexier,
>>>>>
>>>>> =9A =9A Let me explain a little more. Basically, the motivation comes
>>>>> from the requirement of the Apache Harmony Projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. the requirement of the localized messages
>>>>> =9A =9AIndeed we are lack of them, and we need them for customer use.
>>>>> However we see there's no resource, no translation team for Harmony
>>>>> Project to do this. And of course for GSoC, it is impossible for it t=
o
>>>>> support a project simply translate the message. But an automatic tool
>>>>> sounds reasonable.
>>>>> =9A =9ATechnically, yes we have eclipse or some other tools to extrac=
t
>>>>> the String, but I don't see there's a full tool, automatically extrac=
t
>>>>> the messages, analysis if necessary to translate, translate and
>>>>> adjust, and at last inject into the source code with ResourceBundle o=
r
>>>>> property loading mechanism and apply the localization.
>>>>> =9A =9AThis, I believe, is a Win-Win project, help the Harmony projec=
t to
>>>>> be localized, as well as help student to train their skill, thus
>>>>> sounds acceptable for GSoC. If some other project will use it, that'l=
l
>>>>> be a plus.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. the new feature of Apache Harmony project
>>>>> a. the requirement of the smallest jre,
>>>>> =9A =9A Yes I see FreeCiv - an amazing project. However as we see, no=
t
>>>>> all project get to know if the jre can be customized, and not all
>>>>> customer know how to customize the jre. It may be an amazing tool for
>>>>> Harmony than Sun, help the customers to make up his smallest jre
>>>>> according his own project, which help them to make their program
>>>>> download size to be smallest. Do you think it'll be a nice feature fo=
r
>>>>> Harmony to our customers?
>>>>>
>>>>> b. the OSGi/updater
>>>>> =9A =9A OSGi is hot and Apache Harmony has already make its modules
>>>>> bundle. I've heard of many java developers believe if the jdk can
>>>>> adopt OSGi is helpful. It will help some project to be OSGi without
>>>>> apply OSGi module on their projects. And what's more, yes I've got a
>>>>> little investigation on this topic as well, it seems Apache Felix can
>>>>> be applied on Harmony with a few lines changed and a few new methods
>>>>> enhanced on vm, and then start well, And eclipse Equinox looks
>>>>> adaptable as well. If we can go a little further, it may make the
>>>>> Harmony Project to be the first OSGi-ed JDK on the world - cool and
>>>>> attractive to the potential customers, isn't it? If so we can apply a
>>>>> update mechanism for Harmony easily.
>>>>>
>>>>> =9A =9A Yes I see the new features are beyond the Spec, I think it's =
OK
>>>>> if we want to excel Sun's implementation and attract more customers.
>>>>> Do you think the motivation is acceptable? Is there any technical
>>>>> fault on these topics?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/3/18 Alexei Fedotov :
>>>>>> Hello Jimmy,
>>>>>> Being brief, I lack your motivation, not technical details.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. I extracted minimal class sets using standard logging to enable
>>>>>> different applications on Harmony more than once. For example, this
>>>>>> was done for initial analysis of FreeCiv GSoC project. Why one would
>>>>>> need a tool?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Eclipse and many other tools have automatic string extractors for
>>>>>> further localization. I believe you cannot miss all these
>>>>>> //$NON-NLS-1$ comments in the code. Your proposal lacks explanation
>>>>>> why other open source tools do not fit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. I think that before one develops a Harmony updater, a research is
>>>>>> to be conducted why existing updaters cannot be adopted. Yes, I trul=
y
>>>>>> believe that an updater is a separate project unless it complies wit=
h
>>>>>> web start specification or OSGi updater specification. For OSGi, one
>>>>>> should research if OSGi code can be simply adopted instead of
>>>>>> rewritten.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. I expect some words about isolation and OPEN component management
>>>>>> as a motivation for multi-vm. IMHO, this task, if done correctly, is
>>>>>> impossible for a student.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv :
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =9A =9A Thanks Alexei for your suggestion! Sorry maybe I make the
>>>>>>> abstract on the wiki too short to be understandable, I will enrich =
the
>>>>>>> information of the project motivation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =9A =9A The translation tools as I mentioned there, was not focus o=
n the
>>>>>>> translation(as we know there's so many translation tools) but the
>>>>>>> automatic fetching/injecting mechanism of the open source project
>>>>>>> localizable messages. The first motivation was that we Harmony Proj=
ect
>>>>>>> lack those messages compared to Sun's implementation thus was not
>>>>>>> friendly to our users. However think deeper we see many open source
>>>>>>> projects suffer the similar problem. So the tools was planned to
>>>>>>> automatically help Harmony the message with this tool, what's more,
>>>>>>> may help some other open source project, especially java projects. =
So
>>>>>>> I believe this is still closely related to Harmony and is a
>>>>>>> requirement of the project(not sure if it should be titled with
>>>>>>> "Harmony-tool-5"?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =9A =9A The other projects are similar, comes from the requirement =
of
>>>>>>> harmony project and customers requirements. Currently the Harmony
>>>>>>> project lack a automatic updater, NSIS offer only windows installat=
ion
>>>>>>> tool. The basic idea was simple, create a version checker/updater f=
or
>>>>>>> Harmony. The smallest classes selector focus on customized-harmony-=
jre
>>>>>>> which may be friendly to customer usage, to find the classes with
>>>>>>> -verbose was easy(but still may not be enough, as we don't really k=
now
>>>>>>> if the current set cover all classes, maybe some classes will be on=
ly
>>>>>>> load at some special case), but the problem we want to solve is the
>>>>>>> automatic select/build/test/packet for customer application with a
>>>>>>> full but smallest JRE, which may be valuable to customer (e.g, ecli=
pse
>>>>>>> does not need to customize our jre with much effort).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =9A =9A I don't think they can be called as "new open source projec=
t",
>>>>>>> just some tool set for harmony. What do you think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =9A =9A There's another thought, we may enable Apache Harmony JDK w=
ith
>>>>>>> OSGi feature. Yes it was beyond the spec, however it seems valuable=
if
>>>>>>> we find out a light way, at least we see Harmony modules are alread=
y
>>>>>>> bundled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2009/3/17 Alexei Fedotov :
>>>>>>>> I like GSoC tasks from Sean and Andrew.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jimmy,
>>>>>>>> Can you provide a sort of analysis of your tasks? Are there any op=
en
>>>>>>>> source automatic translation tools? How a web updater relates to N=
SIS
>>>>>>>> and Java WebStart? Is there any relation between your multi-vm and
>>>>>>>> isolation API? What is in a smallest class set except -verbose:cla=
ss?
>>>>>>>> Please, provide more motivation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As one of Apache gurus said, "You want start a new open source pro=
ject? Don't."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Jimmy,Jing Lv wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =9A =9AI've added 4 proposal there. Looking for discussions/sugge=
stions/comments :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2009/3/16 Sian January :
>>>>>>>>>> Just wanted to encourage people to write their ideas up on the W=
iki -
>>>>>>>>>> only Oliver has done it so far and there is a deadline.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2009/3/12 Andrew Cornwall :
>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any desire to extend VMTT?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> =9A- add a real assembly format (jsr :label or something like t=
hat, instead of
>>>>>>>>>>> jsr -11.) (Does jasm do this, and if so could we use their form=
at?)
>>>>>>>>>>> =9A- add flexibility for bad classes
>>>>>>>>>>> =9A =9A- specifying the padding for tableswitch/lookupswitch
>>>>>>>>>>> =9A =9A- allow double/long constantpool entries without subsequ=
ent constant
>>>>>>>>>>> pool entry
>>>>>>>>>>> =9A =9A- mixed asm and bin in methods
>>>>>>>>>>> =9A =9A- allow insertion of binary data at other places (eg con=
stant pool)
>>>>>>>>>>> =9A- fix bugs
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> =9A =9AAndrew Jr.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Xiao-Feng Li wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Egor Pasko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> > On the 0x56A day of Apache Harmony Xiao-Feng Li wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> On the 0x56A day of Apache Harmony Xiao-Feng Li wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> This is interesting. Project ideas related to this includ=
e:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> 1. Make Apache Harmony support Google Android application=
s. (Android
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> on Harmony should be much faster with the much more power=
ful JIT and
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> GC).
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Do you mean replacing Dalvik on top of the Android stack o=
r making a
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> system that works on a common desktop?
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Something like that... :) =9AAt the moment I prefer the sec=
ond approach:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to make Harmony ready for Android applications on desktop. =
The first
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> approach probably should be a project of Google Android.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > sounds like a nice idea :) though I cannot imagine how much =
work is
>>>>>>>>>>>> > required to make this happen..
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, there are lots of work in it. Well only when somebody rea=
lly
>>>>>>>>>>>> starts thinking about it, =9Acan we gradually get some good so=
lution. To
>>>>>>>>>>>> replace Dalvik with Harmony in Android stack might be easier. =
In any
>>>>>>>>>>>> case, it requires to run Android on top of a desktop OS, with =
full
>>>>>>>>>>>> libc and utils, because that's Harmony needs. That's why I hav=
e the
>>>>>>>>>>>> second project idea, to reduce Harmony into a very concise ver=
sion
>>>>>>>>>>>> that requires only minimum OS supports, as minimum as Android
>>>>>>>>>>>> requires. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> xiaofeng
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>>>>>> > Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Managed Runtime Technology Center, Intel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Unless stated otherwise above:
>>>>>>>>>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales wit=
h number 741598.
>>>>>>>>>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshi=
re PO6 3AU
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best Regards!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>>>>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> =F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD,
>>>>>>>> =E1=CC=C5=CB=D3=C5=CA =E6=C5=C4=CF=D4=CF=D7,
>>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best Regards!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> =F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD,
>>>>>> =E1=CC=C5=CB=D3=C5=CA =E6=C5=C4=CF=D4=CF=D7,
>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards!
>>>>>
>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> =F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD,
>>>> =E1=CC=C5=CB=D3=C5=CA =E6=C5=C4=CF=D4=CF=D7,
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Best Regards!
>>>
>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Unless stated otherwise above:
>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number=
741598.
>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3=
AU
>>
>
>
>
> --
> =F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD,
> =E1=CC=C5=CB=D3=C5=CA =E6=C5=C4=CF=D4=CF=D7,
> http://www.telecom-express.ru/
> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/
>
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