Even if everyone answered truthfully both on the questionnaire and in their answers here I don't think we'd be able to deduce anything from that information. We don't know what kind of assumptions xyzzy was making to interpret the data and make design decisions.

I don't know if it's necessarily anti-town, mainly because merely discussing this issue can provide alignment indicators, but I do think it could end up dominating the discussion and give scum an easy IIoA avenue.

In post 383, ɀefiend wrote:My thoughts concern the second part Re: McMenno. Note that Narna's request was for Desperado to point out things about McMenno's posts that had scum motivation. However, two out of the three reasons Desperado gives imply that a lack of specific posting from McMenno is scummy. (The PR thing is up in the air, since we are talking about "McMeme-o" after all. I'm not going to digress to argue the strength of this reason.) McMenno didn't have a meaningful response to his wagon, but neither did Davsto, and Davsto's was bigger. The last reason is misapplied to the actual situation, so I cannot discern whether it is bogus scum reasoning or an honest mistake. However, I can explain the misapplication. Drealmerz wasn't responding to the McMenno wagon per se, he was responding to Lane questioning him about his own concern for the wagon.

When a player is wagoned he has four options:

1) Ignore it and do nothing else2) Ignore it and continue scumhunting3) Address it and do nothing else4) Address it and continue scumhunting

1) and 3) lean scum, 2) and 4) lean town. McMenno and Davsto clearly reacted differently to their wagons so I'm curious what leads you to suggest that I'm "misapplying" anything here.

As for the last bit, Drealmerz questioned multiple McMenno votes--that is a response to the McMenno wagon, by definition. He carried a conversation on with lane regarding it, but if another player goes out of his way to question multiple votes on my town slot in RVS, I would want to know why and I would expect other townies to feel similarly.

In post 383, ɀefiend wrote:The last sentence pings me because (1) it reads as fence-sitting about the discussion as a whole, whereas most (active) players have taken a hard stance on it, and (2) KainTepes and drealmerz had just gone through a lengthy back-and-forth about the discussion at hand, but Desperado doesn't elaborate about what, if any "alignment indicators" he picked up on from their exchange -- this begs the questions-If the KainTepes/drealmerz exchange didn't provide any alignment indicators (side note: I think it did), what type of indicators should we actually be searching for with regards to the questionnaire-reveal discussion? &-If the exchange did provide alignment indicators, why didn't Desperado share these at the time? Why bring up the fact that the discussion can provide alignment indicators if you aren't going to talk about them?

Up to now Kain and Dreal are the only people truly engaging the questionnaire discussion and I have shared my Dreal read so I'm not really sure where you're going with this.

@ zefriend: "Hell, he even voted himself" come on. Davsto self voted in RVS. Once RVS was over, he began scumhunting. McMenno has not.

I don't care if there was a bigger wagon on someone else, I care that McMenno didn't care to comment on the votes on him, or on dreal's questioning of the votes on him, or on lane's questioning of dreals' questioning. McMenno was a key player in the early game and he doesn't have any thoughts on anything that happened. He's scum.

As for your last point, the alignment indicators are still going. The questionnaire discussion isn't over. Dreal was suggesting that we should never talk about it ever, I was suggesting that we should because even if the information isn't trustworthy or relevant, each players' response to it will be meaningful. Saying my methodology is bunk when it isn't even remotely close to be complete is pretty silly.

If you've read my ISO then you would have seen the reads I've seen fit to divulge. They are reads I feel strongly enough about to give and support if necessary. If I haven't given a read on someone, it's because they don't lean one way or the other yet, or there's conflicting information, or any other of a number of reasons why I wouldn't have given a read on someone yet.

In post 468, Aristophanes wrote:What do you think of Narna's tone and approach to the game? They seem to be narrating more than giving opinions (with a few exceptions) and playing it rather safe in general. In my quick Iso of them, I saw a lot of almost content, but not much that really had anything to it.

Aye. That doesn't make them scum, either, but the hard townreads raise eyebrows for sure.

In post 486, xyzzy wrote:"none of you have actually changed your votes since the last votecount," says the omnipotent voice in the sky, "but there's a couple of prods in the mod notes, so here's another votecount!"

"what the fuck is a votecount, and what the fuck is a mod notes," says everyone in exasperation simultaneously. it's actually pretty impressive.

"well," says the voice in the sky, "wait until I tell you about 'pedits'. that'll blow your minds."

mod notes: Gamma Emerald is V/LA until January 17 and has been prodded. Narna and Davsto have been prodded. p-edit: Davsto was able to post in the thread in the like 2 minutes between me sending the prod and making this post. good job, Davsto.

Davsto wagon is definitely the worst. Like, early contender for Worst Wagon of the Year.

Frank's vote on lane looks the worst, for sure. Dreal and Narna have at least been open about why they think lane is scum, they're just mistaken.

In post 383, ɀefiend wrote:My thoughts concern the second part Re: McMenno. Note that Narna's request was for Desperado to point out things about McMenno's posts that had scum motivation. However, two out of the three reasons Desperado gives imply that a lack of specific posting from McMenno is scummy. (The PR thing is up in the air, since we are talking about "McMeme-o" after all. I'm not going to digress to argue the strength of this reason.) McMenno didn't have a meaningful response to his wagon, but neither did Davsto, and Davsto's was bigger. The last reason is misapplied to the actual situation, so I cannot discern whether it is bogus scum reasoning or an honest mistake. However, I can explain the misapplication. Drealmerz wasn't responding to the McMenno wagon per se, he was responding to Lane questioning him about his own concern for the wagon.

When a player is wagoned he has four options:

1) Ignore it and do nothing else2) Ignore it and continue scumhunting3) Address it and do nothing else4) Address it and continue scumhunting

1) and 3) lean scum, 2) and 4) lean town. McMenno and Davsto clearly reacted differently to their wagons so I'm curious what leads you to suggest that I'm "misapplying" anything here.

As for the last bit, Drealmerz questioned multiple McMenno votes--that is a response to the McMenno wagon, by definition. He carried a conversation on with lane regarding it, but if another player goes out of his way to question multiple votes on my town slot in RVS, I would want to know why and I would expect other townies to feel similarly.

In post 383, ɀefiend wrote:The last sentence pings me because (1) it reads as fence-sitting about the discussion as a whole, whereas most (active) players have taken a hard stance on it, and (2) KainTepes and drealmerz had just gone through a lengthy back-and-forth about the discussion at hand, but Desperado doesn't elaborate about what, if any "alignment indicators" he picked up on from their exchange -- this begs the questions-If the KainTepes/drealmerz exchange didn't provide any alignment indicators (side note: I think it did), what type of indicators should we actually be searching for with regards to the questionnaire-reveal discussion? &-If the exchange did provide alignment indicators, why didn't Desperado share these at the time? Why bring up the fact that the discussion can provide alignment indicators if you aren't going to talk about them?

Up to now Kain and Dreal are the only people truly engaging the questionnaire discussion and I have shared my Dreal read so I'm not really sure where you're going with this.

Me consistently townreading the three leading wagons and then declaring all three of the leading wagons being on town (with the implication being that we should go another direction) isn't elaborating on it?

It's not a matter of learning to differentiate, it's a matter of lynching what's scummy. And being active while not adding anything substantive, especially when you should be a part of the discussion but you aren't, is scummy.

In post 502, Desperado wrote:Me consistently townreading the three leading wagons and then declaring all three of the leading wagons being on town (with the implication being that we should go another direction) isn't elaborating on it?

I don't see the town motivation from Dreal. Lane I agree with, and Dav I'm still sorting but want to play with longer, so not voting there.

Tell me fhy you townread them.

Everything that occurred between he and Kain was town. I said this at the time.

I'm really not being cagey about any of this so I don't understand why people keep making me repeat myself.

No, I'm not. I've developed town reads on three players, a vote count was posted that showed those three as the only wagons with more than one vote, and I wanted to call attention to everyone that all of the leading wagons are shit.

In post 549, Azral wrote:No, I mean you're projecting your own interpretation onto Desp's posts to try to make sense of his read. But without Desp actually saying the words, that's all it is and quite likely to be wrong. Is he the type to recommend we just policy lynch all the active lurkers? I kind of doubt it.

I'm pushing McMenno and not Frank or Snarky because McMenno is lurking AND he's doing it in a scummy way AND he isn't trying to solve the game AND all of the key players thus far look town to me so my working theory is that scum saw the dreal vs kain > dreal vs lane > dreal vs davsto (is anyone seeing a pattern here???? dreal isn't scum) battles and said "hahahaha NOP"

I've given my reasons for not voting the leading wagons and for why McMenno is scum and I'm not willing to let it go. Dreal's been at 3 votes for over a week. It's not happening and you aren't pressuring him.

In post 594, Davsto wrote:So you don't think any of dreal, lane, I, zefiend, Azral or Aristophanes are scum? And you're too stubborn to push a lynch which at least has a good chance of flipping scum and instead will push a lynch that you're certain is scum but is unlikely to flip?

I could vote Azral, but I don't feel compelled to switch my vote right now, especially if the leading wagons disperse as I anticipate they will, which will obviously change the voting landscape.

It doesn't matter how many times you say it, he did not twist my words. He was confused so he asked me what I said. He didn't throw shade, he didn't approach me with hostility, and he also responded to my question to him constructively as well. Then I cleared up the confusion and we moved along.

Look at that VC. Frank and Ari are gone until deadline. Three slots are useless piles of lurk.

If you're doing the math in your head, that means there's 8 active slots and it takes 7 to lynch. It's also been like pulling teeth getting this McMenno wagon going...if he's town and the scum aren't lurking, I don't think that would be the case.

Look at that VC. Frank and Ari are gone until deadline. Three slots are useless piles of lurk.

If you're doing the math in your head, that means there's 8 active slots and it takes 7 to lynch. It's also been like pulling teeth getting this McMenno wagon going...if he's town and the scum aren't lurking, I don't think that would be the case.

We lynch McMenno to avoid anyone else claiming or costing us a mislynch, and then we ignore Ari until we're forced in to lynching him or risking a loss. It's 8v2v1 tomorrow, which gives town two mislynches.

In post 774, SnarkySnowman wrote:So I have a weird role, it's basically a town game-ender / lyncher. So if it's just town and one faction left, I auto-win for the town. I also got info on how many non-town factions there are, and there are 7. Scum, survivalist, SK, ???, ???, and ???, ??? (i'm filling in blanks, I don't know the ???s). I get extra game info on those factions + some hidden ability if I personally hammer davsto.

tl;dr massclaim shouldn't win the game we still have to scumhunt

And lynching for the info may be a bad idea if we have that much scum left and davsto is town :/ I don't win upon making that lynch

In post 774, SnarkySnowman wrote:So I have a weird role, it's basically a town game-ender / lyncher. So if it's just town and one faction left, I auto-win for the town. I also got info on how many non-town factions there are, and there are 7. Scum, survivalist, SK, ???, ???, and ???, ??? (i'm filling in blanks, I don't know the ???s). I get extra game info on those factions + some hidden ability if I personally hammer davsto.

tl;dr massclaim shouldn't win the game we still have to scumhunt

And lynching for the info may be a bad idea if we have that much scum left and davsto is town :/ I don't win upon making that lynch

In post 970, Narna wrote:It would be a pretty shitty groupscum kill, but there are potentially a fuckton of third party in this game. If you only have the one shot like Ari, then I think locking down a mason claim with it would be solid. This compounds with Desperado pushing for the massclaim which makes the masonry a lower priority nk target. You two still seem town from your play, but this isn't the game to treat masons as confirm town.

In post 973, SnarkySnowman wrote:>3 confirmed town and one scum left maximum

Sorry what? I get the 3 confirmed town from your perspective but what do you mean by the other part

if you had flipped scum there would only be one scum left, max. any more would mean we started with an SK, three group scum, and a two man survivor team, which means it would have been 7 v 3 v 2 v 1

ps i dont trust anything you say. your information suggests it was two man survivor team + sk + one scum + three other third parties (four if you go by what you said originally), which means it would have been....6v2v1v1v1v1v1(v1)?

In post 774, SnarkySnowman wrote:So I have a weird role, it's basically a town game-ender / lyncher. So if it's just town and one faction left, I auto-win for the town. I also got info on how many non-town factions there are, and there are 7. Scum, survivalist, SK, ???, ???, and ???, ??? (i'm filling in blanks, I don't know the ???s). I get extra game info on those factions + some hidden ability if I personally hammer davsto.

tl;dr massclaim shouldn't win the game we still have to scumhunt

And lynching for the info may be a bad idea if we have that much scum left and davsto is town :/ I don't win upon making that lynch

In post 781, SnarkySnowman wrote:presumably 2 of the factions are gone, town is 1, we have 4 factions left. You read 7 correctly.

In post 803, SnarkySnowman wrote:you're saying it's not real because I derped and forgot town was included in those factions

We've seen SK + 3p team + assume groupscum + town, that's 4. there could be another 3p, another town faction, and the mod to make 7. Like there are lots of ways for this to be true.

Do you think I'd make that shit up? Like I know it's ridiculous, and I feel like I'm pretty knowledgeable when it comes to setup stuff, I wouldn't make something like this up and expect it to be believable as a fakeclaim :T

if you're real your flip offers the most information of anyone in the entire game and that isn't really disputable. it confirms the masons and kain tepes as town. i shouldnt have to explain to you why that would be beneficial.

In post 1202, SnarkySnowman wrote:A faction with 0 to start that ends with people later is called the dead. That would be amusing and also line up with Narnas info and explain my own info some.

Where are you getting 3 clears from though? I'm all for the lynch yes, but zefiend claimed 1 result on a dead person, 1 result on davsto, and one on KT. He also claimed a result on me. If he faked one, why could he not have faked another?

Either way I suspect it to be a scum slot anyway. We can lynch one of desp/dav too but I think zefiend is a good start.

zefiend's reason for wanting me lynched is because there's a lyncher aspect in my role. He wants the easy lynch because all he has to do is say "LOL SNARKY IS 3P EZ LYNCH" and he doesn't have to do anything else to get to night, and tomorrow say "oh fuck guys snarky was town also I faked my last cop result to focus us LOL"