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I got a good chuckle out of Mr Kelley's piece also. There's always some religious fool setting dates, and screaming about the sky falling.

But the next few years will be interesting, Although the present administration HAS done the right thing in infusing ca$h into the situation, rather that following FDR's ignorant handling of the last depression. It does trouble me somewhat that Obama seems to want to pattern himself after that failed model.

I got a good chuckle out of Mr Kelley's piece also. There's always some religious fool setting dates, and screaming about the sky falling.

What got me was Jack Van Impe claiming that the rapture may occur on Dec, 12, 2012 the day that the mayan calender ends.

I've always respected this man, he (seems) to know the bible inside and out by heart. If you've ever watched his program, he just lets scriptures roll off his tongue and he tells you exactly the book, verse and chapter. I've always found his knowledge of the bible astonishing. He's also very good with numbers.

What I dont understand is how he got involved with this particular date-setting. To his defense, he never stated that the rapture WILL occur on that date, but he has said that he believes it very well COULD happen then. The evidence is very thought provoking, yet one cannot ignore what the bible says about this

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Mark 13:32

What I dont understand is how he got involved with this particular date-setting. To his defense, he never stated that the rapture WILL occur on that date, but he has said that he believes it very well COULD happen then. The evidence is very thought provoking, yet one cannot ignore what the bible says about this

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Mark 13:32

[/B]

I had to go back and read the article again. This guy didn't say it will happen either, but just that as he sees it, that it could.

Mark 13 lists out all the tribulation that will happen in the end times and then says this:

24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,

25 AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.

26 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.

That's interesting because I believe that there are many who expect that they will not see "The Tribulation".

I've also read some who are saying that they do believe that Christians in America will be facing tribulation in the not too far future. Not "The Tribulation" but tribulation such as others in other countries are already suffering and have been for a long time.

I still wonder though, because during the Book of Revelation, the greater part of it doesn't mention the Church at all during the Great Tribulation. It does mention the Jews though.

Yeah, I sure don't want to go through "The" tribulation but never the less, not my will but Yours Father. Honestly my mind is not made up completely either way, but I trust God regardless of how it turns out.

Perhaps for a tiny minority of fanatics but not for the majority. The vast majority are seeing in him and in his teammates surrounding him, the beginning of a change for a more honest relationship between your country and the other nations in the world. The presidency of the eight last years was not very glorious.

I'd keep my eyes on Prince El H***an from Jordon. I think he may be the man of sin.

Obama is only the next president of the United States and we all expect and hope that he will be a great president. Certainly in this time of great challenges.

Perhaps for a tiny minority of fanatics but not for the majority. The vast majority are seeing in him and in his teammates surrounding him, the beginning of a change for a more honest relationship between your country and the other nations in the world. The presidency of the eight last years was not very glorious.

Obama is only the next president of the United States and we all expect and hope that he will be a great president. Certainly in this time of great challenges.

Trinity

I voted for Jimmy Carter. He said he is Christian and I believed him. I don't know how old you are Trinity, but I never remember anyone equating any of the names you listed above with being the anti-Christ. Although I have heard many times that the Pope is the anti-Christ (something I don't agree with either).

The person who wrote the article said he does not believe that Mr. Obama is the anti-Christ. But I can tell you there are many Christians in this country who believe that America is getting exactly what she(as a nation) has been asking for. From the 1960's (that's as far back as I can remember) this nation has been systematically turning it's back on God. We as a nation have told Him we don't want you in our lives, telling us what to do. So now we don't have Him. Things will only get worse for America and the world regardless of who is president of the U.S. Of course that's if you believe what the Bible says is true and not just a story.

What puzzles me is why so many who are not Americans (and don't pay taxes to our government) hope for something from a president of another country? In Kenya, they were celebrating and saying now we will have better food and more ***s. Some called him Jesus saying he is their savior or messiah.

Is Obama America's president or president of the world? This is why some people question if he could be the "one world leader".

Most of those who don't live in America don't understand democracy or capitalism. Many here and in other countries don't want democracy, because their security, hopes, and dreams depend upon their government.

The American way has been to not depend on the government to take care of you but to have the freedom to work hard and then be able to reap what you have sown, instead of having to give it over to the government who will now distribute it to everyone. (socialism) Along with God's blessing that is why America is the country it is today and has flourished. When it becomes just like everybody else (socialistic) then America will no longer be the home of the brave and the land of the free.

Mr. Obama is a Socialist and wants to change us into that type of country. God placed him in authority and we as a nation may get exactly what the majority want. But that doesn't mean it will be good.

I voted for Jimmy Carter. He said he is Christian and I believed him. I don't know how old you are Trinity, but I never remember anyone equating any of the names you listed above with being the anti-Christ. Although I have heard many times that the Pope is the anti-Christ (something I don't agree with either).

I am old enough to know, and I also have a mind with a great rec***ude. I do not post lies intentionally.

The Quiz
For nearly 2000 years, believers have spent considerable energy trying to identify potential Antichrists in their midst using scripture, particularly Revelation, as their guide. Using the Antichrist characteristics described above, test your knowledge. In the following list, who have been labeled as an arch-deceiver and false messiah of the Last Days?

Most who approach the subject of the antichrist do so from ignorance and / or they buy into extrabiblical nonsense or speculation. If only we would heed the scriptures.

If we look for signs of the antichrist in the Bible the way we do for the signs of Christ, we will learn much. One thing being, antichrist is just the Greek way of saying false messiah. Most speculation falls apart to realize this always was an in house matter (in the house of Israel).

Israel is a vehicle for dealing with good versus evil. And as much as most Christians either deny it or are ig norant of the fact... we are included in the House of Israel (Romans 11:16-26)

John 5:43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if {when} someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

There are many other hints / clues / prophecies...

.

Last edited by johnd; 08-02-2012 at 08:50 PM.

The Bible is its own best commentary.Prophecy is the word of God

which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.A prophet is the tool God uses.It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

I am old enough to know, and I also have a mind with a great rec***ude. I do not post lies intentionally.

The Quiz
For nearly 2000 years, believers have spent considerable energy trying to identify potential Antichrists in their midst using scripture, particularly Revelation, as their guide. Using the Antichrist characteristics described above, test your knowledge. In the following list, who have been labeled as an arch-deceiver and false messiah of the Last Days?

How funny. I don't believe you would lie intentionally Trinity. I just don't ever remember these names being on "the list".

Ok, no problem. The Quiz was fun.

This list can be much longer. Some have started to look at Obama as the antichrist. This is sensationalist and ridicule. How people can look at the christianity seriously after all these false reports about the antichrist?

American Concentration Camps

Watch the videos and read the information at this link.
If you read all of the Executive Orders which both parties, Republican and Democrat are responsible for it is plain that something or someone much bigger than politicians is setting the stage.

"Executive Orders ***ociated with FEMA that would suspend the Cons***ution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:..."

It didn't just happen last November or even 20 years ago. We've been the proverbial frogs sitting in the pan of water while it is continuing to get hotter and hotter until it boils us alive.

If the information at this website is factual, then Christ's return is indeed imminent. There is a lot of specific details which make it easy to research for yourselves. I intend to do just that.

John 9 4 "We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work.

No worries. I imagine the first thing in most folks' mind God had dealt with revealing his truth was their "no that's not it..." reactions.

Revelation 13:18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man’s number. His number is 666.

The text practically screams Solomon at you. Wisdom / insight... 666 is only here and in three other places in the Bible (two of them refer to Solomon's gold wage). Solomon was the first temple builder. He did so no according to the plan of God but according to the plan of David his father who misinterpreted 2 Samuel 7:12-13 to mean Solomon rather than the Messiah (Zechariah 6:12-13). Calculating the Hebrew calendar (Revelation 13:18c) one learns that the two temples were destroyed 666 Hebrew years apart to the very day.

Sholomoh (a derivative of the word shalom / peace) Peace peace when there is no peace... the empty quiver and bow... conquest through peace... ring any bell?

It will not be the literal Solomon. But the beast has the prophetic model of Solomon who will affirm the old covenant (Daniel 9:27 not a peace treaty but the old Mosaic covenant). He will be instrumental in the building of the third temple (resuscitating the levitical sacrificial system) the leaves on the fig tree in Matthew 24:32-34 (fig tree = Israel [Hosea 9:10], fig leaves were part of man's first religious act to cover sin [Genesis 3:7] law of first mention).

Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

If this were not about Judaism and the Shabbat Laws being enforced in Jerusalem by a religious leadership who saw nothing wrong with the beast approaching the temple (to declare himself God [2 Thessalonians 2:3-4] ), then Jesus' concern over the Sabbath would make no sense. Keeping shabbat has never in recorded history ever taken precedent over fight or flight.

People and preachers have been flying off the handle about the date of the end / rapture / who the beast is since the first century CE because they did not take into account that this is a Jewish in house venture. And while the regathering of the Jews to the Holy Land is quite significant, it is not the indicator Hal Lindsey and those like him thought it was back in the 1960's, 70's, and 80's.

Matthew 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.
34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not p*** away until all these things have happened.

True, without the regathering and the nationalizing of the State of Israel these things would not be possible / likely... the nearness of time depends on the religious system being reinstalled and it will not be until the temple is built and dedicated.

The Bible is its own best commentary.Prophecy is the word of God

which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.A prophet is the tool God uses.It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. {till the end of history}
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Last edited by johnd; 08-02-2012 at 08:50 PM.

The Bible is its own best commentary.Prophecy is the word of God

which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.A prophet is the tool God uses.It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

What puzzles me is why so many who are not Americans (and don't pay taxes to our government) hope for something from a president of another country? In Kenya, they were celebrating and saying now we will have better food and more ***s.

Since the U.S.A. is the world's sole superpower, U.S. foreign policy (and hence the U.S. President) does indeed affect the rest of the world. Also, the health of the U.S. economy affects the economy of the rest of the world.

True, without the regathering and the nationalizing of the State of Israel these things would not be possible / likely... the nearness of time depends on the religious system being reinstalled and it will not be until the temple is built and dedicated.

Hi John,

I created a thread here: http://www.waltermartin.com//forums/...read.php?t=628 that asks a question about the Tribulation Temple. So far the thread has generated '0' replies. When I posted the question, I thought you might be one who would be interested in posting a response.

Hold the phone!

Mr. Obama is not the antichrist!

Last edited by johnd; 05-19-2010 at 03:25 AM.

The Bible is its own best commentary.Prophecy is the word of God

which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.A prophet is the tool God uses.It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

There is only one man who fits that bill if one is to discover him prophetically as we discovered who the true Christ is prophetically... let the Bible speak for itself and be amazed!

2 Thessalonians 2:1-11 (NKJV)
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

John 17:12 (NKJV)
12 “While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Ananias and Sapphira were influenced by the devil (Acts 5) and the question was put figuratively to them how has satan filled their heart to lie to God? But it was not an inhabitation / possession as was clearly the case in...

Luke 22:3 (NKJV)
3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.

John 13:26-27 (NKJV)
26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”

When the devil realized he had done what the Lord wanted all along in condemning Jesus to death, he tried to put a stop to it feigning remorse. But he'd corrupted the sanhedrin too well and the torment of satan within his body drove Judas to end his life to stop the havoc within...

Notice...

Acts 1:24-26 (NKJV)
24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen
25 “to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.”
26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Whether or not you buy this, think a moment, IF such an one as Judas came back from the dead (Revelation 13:3) and could prove by DNA or the contents of his blood proving he lived 2000 years ago... would that not lend credibility to his claims to 99.99% of the world? Including skeptics, atheists, agnostics, other religionists...

The Bible is its own best commentary.Prophecy is the word of God

which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.A prophet is the tool God uses.It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...

What got me was Jack Van Impe claiming that the rapture may occur on Dec, 12, 2012 the day that the mayan calender ends.

I've always respected this man, he (seems) to know the bible inside and out by heart. If you've ever watched his program, he just lets scriptures roll off his tongue and he tells you exactly the book, verse and chapter. I've always found his knowledge of the bible astonishing. He's also very good with numbers.

What I dont understand is how he got involved with this particular date-setting. To his defense, he never stated that the rapture WILL occur on that date, but he has said that he believes it very well COULD happen then. The evidence is very thought provoking, yet one cannot ignore what the bible says about this

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Mark 13:32

That's true. But on the other hand, intuition is not knowledge even when it comes out correct.

The Anti-Christ is said to be a leader who arises from the revived Roman Empire. That would be the European Union, and mean Anti-Christ would most likely be a white European man. Obama obviously doesn't fit that description.

At best, Obama will be one of the leaders who sets the stage for a one world government. Henery Kissinger made the remark that Obama would be the one to usher in the 'New World Order'.

I am not a lover of the perversion and humanist tendencies of the liberal thinker / voter. But I have had quite enough self righteous indignation from the mentality that was mostly guilty of getting America in the mess we are now in financially.

I once lapped up the right wing cool aid just like every one else who does so now. Hated who the right wing media and preachers told me to hate. Voted how right wing (so called conservatives) said how to vote to:

Save America
Heal our wounded land
Stop Abortion
Create ***s (here in America)
Preserve the rights of the average citizen
Bring Christ back into the public square and schools

Any of that happen?

I hear crickets chirping.

We voted in what four Republican Presidential terms often with a Republican majority in the Congress.

Anything happen?

Greed like never before in all human history.
Private sector cash and carry and creating the ***s... over seas while down sizing streamlining attrition American ***s into oblivion...

When the private sector runs amok like this the Government HAS to step in...

Problem is the pendulum swings to the opposite extreme.

America has slid into moral depravity. The things that go on even in Church today would repulse our parents and grandparents (to say nothing of what goes on out in society. And as we grew more depraved turning our backs on God except for when we wanted something or to play "Church" weekly... God removed incrementally his blessing and protection from America. He had to.

So we have been at the mercy of extremists from both sides of the pendulum (which is fascism on both sides the privileged few benefiting from the suffering of the m***es).

The happy medium (fair market free enterprise) is the only way ALL benefit. But it's going to take a lot of drastic change for Christ beginning in our own lives in our own homes in our own ***s...

Then maybe we won't have such unholy choices in the white house as we have today a cultist and a liberal.

And btw nobody is talking about serious health care reform who is not addressing runaway costs in medicine, medical, and insurance. And med school... my gosh!

When we are under God's provision and protection the costs and the fraud are down... and when we are as concerned about our neighbors as we are ourselves... wow what a world it would be... I lived in the 1960's and caught the tail end of the "old school" life and it was a much better world...

The Bible is its own best commentary.Prophecy is the word of God

which sometimes speaks of future... sometimes of the present... sometimes of the past.A prophet is the tool God uses.It's not about the prophet, but about the God who uses the prophet to speak his word...