Monday, July 27, 2015

More Comments from Readers – Part VI

Here are more comments that we have received from readers of
this website blog:Comment #1: “I consider myself very open minded but if
your primary focus is on the geography without as much if not more
consideration on the promises and prophecies, then I believe you’ll risk
missing it.” Ralph K.Response: My intention is
not now and never was to focus on modern-day prophecies about anything
regarding the Book of Mormon unless they are official declarations of the
Church…my focus has always been to find out what the Book of Mormon had to say,
it being written by people who were there, who lived on the land, and, as in
the case of Mormon, traveled the land extensively and abridged everyone else’s
writings other than 1 Nephi through Omni. It is also my firm belief, and I have
never found anything to ever contradict this, the Brethren, when speaking for
the Church as Apostles, etc., never conflict with the scriptural
record—sometimes members misunderstand what was meant.

When the Brethren speak, they are always
consistent with the scriptural record. Nor do they speak on matters not already
knownComment #2: “I read where even though Hagoth’s ship was
described as being exceedingly large, it would in no way compare to anything we
might consider a large ship today, but was simply a ship considerably larger
than those that were the norm for the time” Constance T.Response: Statements like this
are rarely helpful. First of all, what is meant by a large ship today? Obvious
Hagoth’s ships were not the size of tankers today, nor a passenger liner, or a
holiday cruise liner—we are talking about wooden vessels. So how large was a
wooden vessel? The ship Columbus had to discover America usually surprises most
people when they learn it was only 58-feet long, and about 100 tons weight,
with a crew of 40 men. Since it was 18-feet wide, its deck was only about 1044
square feet, about the size of a very small two-bedroom home. Sir Frances
Drake’s Golden Hinde vessel was about
twice that size in space and crew number. The later Spanish Manilla Galleons
were between 1000 and 2000 tons, and the final ships of the Age of Sail were
the Yankee Clippers that were about 200 feet in length, 30 feet in width
(beam), about 6000 square feet of deck, over 2000 square yards of sail, were
some of the largest sailing ships built.

Left: Columbus flag ship Santa Maria; Right:
Sir Frances Drake’s Golden HindeConsidering all of that,
what would an exceedingly large ship mean? We have no way of knowing this, but
since the ship mentioned in Alma built by Hagoth was for the purpose of hauling
emigrant families, loaded with provisions, sufficient to start a new life
elsewhere, one might consider it to be larger than that of Columbus Santa
Maria, and likely closer to Drake’s Golden Hinde, or about a hundred feet in
length with a 20-foot beam and around 150-ton or so. For it to be much smaller,
it would not serve much of a purpose in the business of carrying immigrants to
another land.Comment #3: “I find myself
among those that favor a setting more localized than
Mesoamerica or South America, like near the Great Lakes. I agree with Phyllis
Olive that Lehi's company was directed by divine guidance across the Gulf of
Mexico and up interconnected North American rivers such as the Mississippi,
Ohio and other navigable ancient water ways, to within a short distance of the
Book of Mormon's "west sea" or "west sea, south" – the
freshwater Great Lake Erie. I also agree with Wayne May and Olive that the
northern arrivals of other ancient peoples in the Book of Mormon occurred by
way of the Atlantic Ocean and St. Lawrence Seaway” Virginia O.Response: We have
written about this many times and our response can be found in numerous posts
in our blog. For a brief answer, the Mississippi River could not take a deep
sea sailing vessel more than 90 miles up from the Gulf because of shoals,
rapids, and blockages that existed on the river for millennia until the Corps
of Engineers cleared such obstructions, built locks, and often dug new
channels. People like Olive and May, and many others, look on a map and say
that looks possible, without knowing about what they write. Not a single inland
water way before the Corp of Engineers could handle any kind of vessel larger
than a canoe, or a small, flat-bottomed packet carrier, or the type of
flat-bottomed, shallow-draft big boats such as the paddle wheelers. What is
possible today is because of the fantastic work the Corps of Engineers have
done to our eastern inland waterways that make it possible today to reach the
Great Lakes in almost any kind of deep ocean vessel—but that was not initially
the case. Not until this country began to be populated in the 16th
century onward did any kind of river dredging and deepening ever take place,
and without that, no ship of any kind could have gotten within hundreds of
miles of the Great Lakes, including the St. Lawrence Seaway, which had their
own Canadian engineers making that river possible for movement toward the Great
Lakes beyond Montreal and the Lachine Rapids.

Top: 19th-century paddle wheeler
on the Mississippi; Middle and Bottom: Models to show how shallow was the draft
on these paddle wheelers—about one-fourth to one-third the draft (depth in the
water) of a deep-sea sailing vessel. Even then, they could not sail beyond the
rapids, but were either northern boats (upper Mississippi) or southern boats
(lower Mississippi), and many were constantly running aground, needing outside
help, passengers wading in and pushing off sandbars, or waiting for a change in tideAll May and Olive
have shown is their lack of knowledge of these waterways before the 16th
century. Even the French, who occupied New Orleans for many years prior to our
gaining control of that area, worked to clear passage along the delta of the
Mississippi because French shipping could not use the river beyond New Orleans.Comment #4: “Why do you use so many Book of Mormon
scriptures in your articles. I find that they sometimes interfere with smooth
reading” Paula G.Response: Scriptures
are used in our writing that apply to what is being covered because it provides
the reader with a source of verification and shows we are not simply making up
what we say, or speaking from our own belief and knowledge as so many theorists do. We use a lot to
show the reader that they have the option of verifying what we write, unlike
most writers on the subjects we write about, and to show that each point
discussed has its own reference. We feel it is important that the reader
understands we are giving the scriptural record viewpoint, not something we
came up with ourselves. We do this because when Theorists write about their
theories and models, most readers do not fact-check what they say or do not
know how to find a reference that is not listed, but tend to accept it or
reject it without knowing any more than what is written. We feel it is
important that the reader knows what is in the scriptural record, not what
someone claims is in it.Comment #5: “While
I cannot accept the Book of Mormon story as literally historical; I can, in a
sense, accept the book as a somewhat symbolic embodiment of 'the American
story' - the creation of a unique but "familiar" vision of manifest
destiny, wars waged to protect the "liberties" of patriots,
democracies created to secure the sanctity of these liberties, and the
overarching struggle of good and evil - all roughly woven together within the
framework of an American Christian apocalypse” Justin F.

Response: To each his
own. What you get out of the Book of Mormon is up to you, and in part, what you
put into it to study and comprehend. As for me, I accept every word as factual,
events that happened, people that lived, prophets that wrote, and the
foundation of my religion as the Bible is to others, though I accept the Bible
as well. I believe the Book of Mormon is an inspired document, written on
plates of metal as stated, abridged by Mormon, buried by Moroni, uncovered by
Joseph Smith (all part of the inspired plans of the Lord), and translated by
the latter under the strict guidance of the Spirit. Therefore, I accept every
word written within its pages, every meaning, every concept and precept, every
prophecy and every word. This entire blog is written for this purpose, to show
the truthfulness, accuracy and reality of its writings and the events within
its pages.