Posted
by
Soulskillon Tuesday March 09, 2010 @11:23AM
from the taking-out-the-trash dept.

An anonymous reader writes "The European Parliament is preparing to take on ACTA. A joint resolution (DOC) has been tabled by the major EP parties that threatens to go to court unless things change. The EP is calling for public access to negotiation texts and rules out further confidential negotiations. Moreover, the EP wants a ban on imposing a three-strikes model, assurances that ACTA will not result in personal searches at the border, and an ACTA impact assessment on fundamental rights and data protection."

It's getting heated up in my country too. People are demanding answers from politicians, but even they don't know what the fuck is going on. ACTA is seriously the kind of secrecy movement that should not be allowed. It's good to see we actually have some backbone. My image towards EU has growth a lot with this.

But it isn't the British, its the rest of Europe. The British are to busy trying to bring about their Orwellian utopia to be teaching us much of anything. Right now England is pretty far behind even the US when it comes to freedom.

Don't forget Canada and New Zealand. The leaked ACTA docs show that they were standing up for rights and good law from the beginning. The EU was going along with the US before it became public.

Mind you, EU has two sides, parliament are the good guys in general (looking at a large number of cases). The commision (the bad side) is appointed by the EU, they fuck up pretty much everything. Parliament is elected and seem to actually fight for the people. So the shift shouldn't be too shocking. EU commision secretly fucking over the people w/ ACTA, parliament finding out and being pissed about it.

I'm not going to nitpick their reasons. So maybe they had plans to go along with that crap, then they were exposed, and are now fighting against it to look good.

I don't care. I'm just thankful they're doing it.

I love my country. We do a lot of good things, but we also screw thing ups pretty good. The agreement has been brought to light and, unlike the EU, my country is not chancing its stance. That's what matters.

Actually, ever since the Lisbon Treaty came into effect on January 1 of this year, the Parliament has to agree in order for ACTA to come into force. The way it looks now, it would fail by a very large margin, and ACTA would be null and void in the world's largest economy.

It might be worth explaining for non-European readers that the balance of power between the (elected) Parliament and the (appointed) Commissioners shifted significantly as a result of the Lisbon Treaty, which recently took effect. There was plenty to worry about in that treaty, but this part, at least, they did get right.

A similar difference in opinion between MEPs and the appointed guys explains the recent oddities about allowing the US access to bank records: that provision was pushed through by the appointed government weenies literally hours before Lisbon came into effect, and the MEPs have been working to get it fixed since the change.

it was in low countries (netherlands and belgium) that the first baselines for age of reason were laid, and it was in late 18th century france that age of enlightenment (which has created the concept of rights of the ordinary man and equality) has come to being.

there is nothing to be ashamed or feel inferior or hate. these are fundamental principles that go beyond and above nationalities and locales. we should all support these from wherever, from whomever they come out.

*cough* No, I think the EU is doing this as an act of self-preservation. Unlike the US, that has an economy that is mostly closed (despite what you may think, our import/exports make up only a small amount of GDP), most of the EU has an open economy. The ACTA would screw them a lot harder than the United States. The US is just looking for a way to justify backing out of various free trade agreements and the ACTA is basically a way of us adding tariffs to our imported/exported services by creating artificial

The US model is even more open. There are relatively minor state level trading restrictions (the biggest currently is probably the state level differences in health insurance regulation, which are significant obstacles to an interstate insurance market and a contributor to the high US health care costs). And from a pragmatic point of view, there's no language barrier (English being dominant throughout the US) nor a transportation barrier (US transportation infrastructure and regulation is very uniform).

That's because US is a single country while EU is many different countries with several languages, and I would also like to keep it that way.

Regarding trade, EU mandates it to be open within EU countries. On top of that you can also freely live and work in any other EU member country. This is in my opinion the best compromise between independent countries and free trading, movement and living within EU area.

Why do you say that? Countries in the EU tend to have very strong national identities, with their own long histories and distinct cultures. And most of us, aside from a few politicians and industrial heavyweights, like it that way.

Pushing toward some harmonized United States of Europe is pretty much our "third rail", as you can tell from the fact that most national governments have avoided giving their people a referendum on constitution-level reform in Europe and the agreements that made it through did so

Well, they actually did [wikipedia.org] (mostly). Switzerland, which is not part of the EU, doesn't use the same standard, and actually has a much better one (much smaller and simpler plugs at same Ampere ratings). Now it's a total mess in Switzerland, with the better local plugs and cables, and the European ones, and lots of adapters in between. (Switzerland is very small; if you need to rent trucks full of electrical equipment, chances are some of them will come from a neighb

which are significant obstacles to an interstate insurance market and a contributor to the high US health care costs

I imagine it's the same level of contribution that frivolous lawsuits add - nearly 2%!

Health care is expensive because Americans have terrible diets, they don't exercise, and they expect a pill to solve problems like obesity. Since health coverage is out of reach of nearly 50 million Americans, everyone receives last minute care at hospitals instead of preventative care at less expensive clinics. And when they can afford health care, doctors maximize useless services and tests to push up profits, even when

I went to a hematologist about this positive test result and was told point-blank that I did not have this condition as I had not ever been outside the US and this condition is only present in a small numbers in a few third-world countries. I asked for the test anyway, and they gave it to me, confirming what the hematologist said from the start.

And if the hematologist had been wrong, and you actually had this rare condition and it maimed or killed you, you or your family would then be suing the doctor for

You do know that many of the richest EU countries base their economies heavily on providing servies already?We're not all ignorant savages outside the US.The service sector is the dominant sector of the UK economy and also many of the other big rich EU countries.

It is even the largest sector in Europe's largest industrial agglomeration, the Ruhrgebiet [wikipedia.org] (Ruhr Basin). Once famous for its steel, now 40% of the workforce in the Ruhrgebiet work in services, and only 16% are still working in the industrial sector.

Isn't this at least in part due to automation? You don't have to employ that many people when you have machines to do a lot of the work. Having said that, right now it's probably easier to buy steel from other parts of the world...at least for now.

You do know EU has a lot different system than US? First theres different political systems in all of their member countries, most of them who actually do have 6-8 different parties that have saying over things. EU doesn't need to portray itself as an hero to the people - it pretty much is the EU people, and that's why it will fight ACTA.

(btw, I've seen you shouting bullshit in many different areas, from running trackers to some china government and now this - do you even know what you're talking about?)

Yeah good job linking me to a 200-page PDF file. Please paste those imbalances and differences in what is being exported if they actually matter.

And like another poster here pointed out [slashdot.org], if you're going to do an US vs EU compare, you have to look at it at whole EU scale. In that case it's pretty much the same amount (except that 4% more in export GDP compared to US)

We weren't talking about the price of tea in China. We were discussing why the ACTA is being fought by the European Union. Please stay on topic.

It only looks off topic if you quote your interlocutor out of context. Let's look at the actual context:

Also, are you really serious about us economy being closed? Did you forget China and Taiwan, the Indian coders and phone support, even us mail manual processing being offshored to Singapore? You can't be serious.

Which was in response to this:

Unlike the US, that has an economy that is mostly closed...

Claiming to be subject to a violation of logic (an Ad Hominem) on the one hand, but then blatantly quoting out of context on the other in order to deliver a snide and condescending reply is really inconsistent -- at best.

Your theory fails on account of it assuming some centralized leadership that is actually able to coordinate all these manoeuvres so as to make the false impression that they are acting on behalf of the people of the EU, at least for the time being.

You have to take my word for it that 'the' EU as such does not exist, nor that it is lead in such a coherent fashion.

This is not a struggle EU vs. someone else, it's between the various branches within Europe.

The EU Parliament gained additional privileges in December, and they're eager to use them now, while the EU Commissions feel like they can go on like before. It's an act of self-preservation of the EP as a relevant entity in the European framework. If they don't make sure they get their say in these agreement now (no matter what the outcome), they're mostly irrelevant again.

This is not about eliminating ACTA, but about the secrecy around it. The EP's main gripe is that someone is representing Europe without a mandate or accountability, to create a deal that the EP is eventually asked to sign. And guess what the arguments will be once ACTA is at that stage:1. "You have to sign this, or the international community will not consider the EU a reasonable partner"2. Just look what the US did with the SWIFT agreement (ambassadors etc. stalking our representatives)

Unlike the US, that has an economy that is mostly closed (despite what you may think, our import/exports make up only a small amount of GDP)

A quarter of the US GDP is in imports and exports. It's not a small amount. Looking at the CIA World Factbook [cia.gov], the EU and US seem to have similar levels of imports and exports (remember interstate trade between EU members doesn't count as imports and exports from the EU itself, else we should count interstate trade between US states as well). I get that the US has 15% of its GDP in imports and 9% in exports. The EU has 11% of its GDP in imports and 13% of its GDP in exports.

I've done my fair share of BS'ing/armchair-punditry, but I have to say that this is either grossly naive or overgeneralized. France under Sarkozy has been pushing 3-strikes legislation aggressively, even though it keeps getting killed in court.

And if the US backs out of its FTAs, that'd be akin to committing economic policy seppuku. Another commenter mentioned China, but do you realize how much we're interdependent with East Asia in general? 90%+ of the components you used to comment were either made there (China) or designed by a firm in that region (Samsung, LG, Sony, Asus, etc. etc. etc.). Now imagine what would happen if the US even thinks about going protectionist on these guys-- you'll see a collapse of the US consumer economy as we know it, because we've abandoned the idea of making goods domestically due to higher costs.

basically continuing the long-standing tradition of passing the production to poor countries and living on top of them by providing the services and support that ultimately control the means of production.

I think you may have made a typo when you tried to write "basically continuing the long-standing tradition of providing poor countries with the means of production and massively closing the gap between their standard of living and ours". It's ok, it happens.

They have been doing this for years, it's why most people in Europe like the EU. They stand up for the people and ask for openness, we don't really need any more wars in Europe we'd all like to find ways to work together.

democracy is working there and its working very well, as we can all see.

If by "democracy" you mean that you can vote for a representative that can push your interests through, then no, the role of true democracy in EU is on the decrease. Sadly, it's becoming more of a bureaucracy.

Exactly this. Most of the government services in my country are being moved to over internet too (or at least trying to), so cutting down ones Internet connection wouldn't cut. It is really required in current day.

The stats are quite interesting, although I'm not sure that the low amount of people who see corporate prescence on the internet as a problem is a good thing, particularly when violent/explicit content is rated so highly. I'm not convinced content is ever a problem- if you don't want to see it, don't look at or for it, but then, that's just my personal view. I guess by the stats I'm quite a minority although I do share the sentiment t

No, rights outlined in the European Convention on Human Rights are protected by it; internet access isn't one of them. You'll also notice that it makes no statements regarding access to other utilities. As much as denial of internet may seem like torture to a Web 2.0 addict, it isn't.

Recent polls show that most people regard Internet access as a fundamental right and considering how important Internet access has become that is very understandable.

Which is not surprising. We recently had a strike where bus drivers left a lot of shifts out. In an interview the guy responsible for all of the capitals buss traffic mentioned one way to find out which shifts are run and which are not - checking their web page. If public services are moving everything to the web like this, the internet can r

Finally we have the chance to lobby elected representatives rather than aetherial bureaucracy! Don't let's waste it, guys...

If anyone in the UK wants to write to their MEPs about this resolution (you should), you can use this [writetothem.com] page to do so. I'm sure similar services exist in other countries, or you could just post the MEPs a dead tree version of your complaint.

This is why the Lisbon Treaty is a Good Thing. The power of the unelected commissioners has been reduced and the EP can start to be useful. If they can only stop the ridiculous moves to and from Strasbourg, then the future looks bright (for the moment)

Of course, if you elected sensible representatives in the first place then you wouldn't need to lobby them to act in your interests later. Yes, I am smug that my MEP is an active member of the FFII and is opposing this without my wasting her time with petitions.

I believe EU parliament always felt this way. It is a sudden outbreak of leaked papers reaching them. I think there wasn't nearly enough parliamentary oversight of the commision in ACTA before now. Note that commision is for and parliament is against most of the things/.ers hate in ACTA.

I wish I was European so I could take pride in the fact that someone is finally standing up and calling bullshit on this entire process. I just wish Canada's government would do the same but, so long as Stephen 'Bush-wannabee' Harper is in power (proroguing government in an attempt to remain in power), I don't imagine that will ever happen so I'll have to simply be glad that the Europeans are doing the right thing.

Ah, but what you don't fully realize is that we're actually on the same side. As a European, the same interest groups who try to screw me (not personally though) also try to screw you. It's a common enemy.

And anyone who would defend Harper _regularly_ proroguing parliament - halting the government from actually doing their _jobs_ - in an attempt to save his skin is someone who's opinion I could not give a rat's ass about. Harper knows that he'll be voted out if forced into an election. For him to put the entire parliamentary process on hold just so he can get a couple more months in power is disgusting. Every Canadian, regardless of political a

He didn't say anything about being pro-liberal. He may be NDP or Green, both of which would be undeniably unlike Bush. If anything his anti-American sentiment and extreme distaste for proroguing parliament would lead me to believe he was a supporter of the Canadian Action Party.

We don't have a two party system here, so you can't assume that because you're against Evil1 that you're automatically in support of Evil2.

Having too much freedom for the people and too transparent a government is endangering the power of individual politicians as they can more easily be held accountable for their actions.
This they do not like, and so they came to the conclusion that going back to secrecy and less freedom for the people is the way to go, as that would help secure their powers.
Sucks monkeyballs, but that's what you get when you have people who think of themselves instead of the people they represent in power.

Well, I think it's only a false image... At first, "american" were greedy colonists (either going to america to flee some judicial problems in europe or going there to make some big profit).

While esclavagism had mostly disappeared in Europe, it had been brought back in US...

US has always be about freedom without limits... If you succeed in earning money, it gave you the right to "enslave" other people (well, employing them with minimal salaries), to crush the other trying to earn their living (most known example on slashdot is Microsoft... but it's true for many other),...

On the other hand, in Europe, it had been more and more about limiting personal freedom so it don't infringe on someone other's freedom (I won't say it was perfectly done)... Corporate greed also existed in europe... long ago... And it's brought back from the US (and other) thanks to the buyouts, merges,...

Wasn't there a time when the US led the world in freedom, liberty, and openness?

That was probably a long time ago. But I like the fact that Americans still think this, because that means that they want it to be true.But for this to be true, it pretty much depends on what you consider to be freedom, liberty and openness. The rule of law has always been about protecting the strong from the weak, as stealing from others is easier than making things for yourself, thus laws must exist to protect our ability to evolve as a species. And as has been mentioned earlier, ACTA is simply a move to

Hmm, the word “freedom” is used as a newspeak word, meaning something quite different (whatever fitted the greed for power), for a long time already. But the EU-countries are not really that much better. They mostly try to imitate the US anyway. And badly too.

Luckily, this very article proves that not all is bad. By far.

Also, while the media likes to portrait it as if the people of the US and the EU hate each other, actually it couldn’t be further from the truth. We hate Cheney. And fighti

I don't see why it's necessary. Any compromise reached will just be another stepping stone in their agenda and they will be one step closer then, even if they get frustrated momentarily without total passage.

What's the old adage about bargaining - start way higher than your actual goals and then during negotiations inch lower on your demands but at least you end up with what you wanted. But at least with a negotiation, both sides get something they need and want. What are we getting in return that we don

We (the consumers) aren't really a party to the negotiation; the government is negotiating on our behalf to work on legitimate problems such as counterfeit goods. The real parties to the negotiation are businesses and government. As such, the businesses are pushing to get all the things they'd like to see, even where they're not really in the interests of the public. Government is dazzled by the show, and will tend to go along with a lot of things, especially where the businesses have been successful with propaganda.

First they shot down the forced SWIFT bank transactions monitoring by the US of EU citizens (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/02/06/1836221/EU-Committee-Says-No-To-Bank-Data-Sharing) and now they're (trying to) blow the lid on all the secrecy surrounding this ACTA agreement.

Maybe the EU Lisbon treaty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon) has really given th European Parlement some teeth. At least they are probing the limits of their power, in the right direction.

Interestingly there's also a movement in the EU now to do away with the airline data sharing deal whereby something like 49 pieces of information like e-mail address, name, address, telephone number, credit card details and so forth are sent to the US before people are allowed to fly there from Europe.

It's quite a turn around since the Lisbon treaty and the last set of European elections, I was concerned there'd be less standing up to the US, but there is in fact even more now.

The secrecy behind this act is insane. People have the right to Fair Use. And our Constitution and Bill of Right are meant to protect the people. Companies are not People, and that what this ACTA seems to be protecting, the bottom line of profit. Kudos European Parliament!

well, it's up to you (in USA) to push for SHORTER copyright terms... Vote with your wallet, write to your local politicians, organise some big MPAA hit boycott,...

At first, copyright was about a SHORT LIMITED TIME, now, it's longer and longer... with the clear intent to make it infinite...

It's up to you to push for a ban on stupid patents... Explain to other that if they have to pay more for their MP3/camera/... it's because of the so many patent fees on trivial or outdated technologies... I'd say that for everything computer-related, max patent duration should be 1 or 2 year... That's the rate at which most computer technologies become more or less obsolete...

It's up to you to say no to the removal of HQ on analog signals on TV/DVD/BluRay/... and to say no to the enforcement of HDCP and removal of analog signal later... Unless you want that your equipment becomes obsolete and you had to replace it...

It's up to you to shake your legal system, to prevent bullies (oops... corporation) from dragging court process until the other part can't pay for court and attorneys fees.

Yes, I'm an American and I find it fantastic that Canada and the EP have a damn head on their shoulders. As long as Americans believe there are ONLY TWO POLITICAL PARTIES, this country will be f'ed. Those in control have been there too long and need to be replaced. The problem is those two parties have all the money for running real political campaigns. If an independent or some other political party had the money to actually get their name out, AND (and a HUGE and) if the American people wouldn't just vote BASED ON A PARTY NAME, things in this country could be much better. As it is now, you have two real parties and one of them is basically given control of the congress and/or house so they can just push what bills they want out the door. IF American's would actually open up their mind and quit voting by party name, and IF we could get 4, 5, or 6 PARTIES into congress and house, thing would be less "This is what we (as in the controlling party) want, push it though!" to more checks and balances on the whole process. It wouldn't be a controlling group with the same ideas in charge, but a mix of ideas from a range of people.. and I have a feeling it would keep more crap like this from appearing, as well as cut back on all the bullshit tucked away in bills.

The multiparty systems exists in many countries, especially here in the EU.And I'm sad to say that a lot of bull STILL gets passed, because for an extended period of time, several parties who jointly have a majority simply agree what laws are to be passed. It's no different than the two party system. In fact, on many levels it's WORSE, because now you have 3-4 parties who all wants a piece of the action, so everything is a compromise. And is they ever agree on something, its a political hot potatoe, and any legislation passed in a hurry is crap because noone considers the consequences.

The only real upside is that voters CAN actually "punish" their party by voting for a different party with largly the same views, so you dont have to go from one extreme to the other. Thus its slightly more democratic, and equally bad;)

media corporations and their paid-for government whores are attempting to backdoor their oligopolistic unneeded parasitical existence into the internet age

but the people have spoken: we like our freedoms very much, and it is clear the internet has meant that your continued existence means compromising our freedoms in ways we don't like. so i guess you'll just have to die then, unnecessary media corporations

artists, writers, directors: you don't need old school distributors. there's a better, free, distributor: the internet. sure, you won't get pennies everytime someone sings your song in the shower (while some lawyer asshole gets the lion share of pennies) but you'll get fabulous exposure and advertising and presence. then you can tour, and make money the honest way

You got it the wrong way around. Those ideas are not what we actually declared “war” on. But the people behind them.

And I think a real actual war with weapons and all, against the ACTA-proponents, would be a good thing. Ok, it would only last about half a day, and then everyone from the MAFIAA would be shot... But hey, it would still be worth it.;)

The "war on" metaphor has become trite. Can we just say what it is: The EU Parliament is investigating/opposing/*something* against ACTA. The way people use the word war has stripped it of effect. War used to be a big deal... no it just means arguement/conflict/opposition.

Sure we can use metaphors, but when we over use them or use them incorrectly, the original word loses meaning and the metaphor becomes "cute" at best.

I vote that we no longer refer to this kind of thing as "declaring war," since that terminology has become cliche. I suggest the replacement of "calling intervention on." For instance, the headline here should be "European Parliament Calls Intervention on ACTA."

now we all need to gather behind the parliament, regardless who and where are we from. american and belgian, swedish or italian. even hindu, japanese, brasilian.

if you are from Eu or from an Eu candidate status country, you can officially petition European Parliament. this is a legal right. you can do it online, or you can do it with snail mail, as long as you put your name, address correctly. they all are valid and processed.

if you are from Eu or from an Eu candidate status country, you can officially petition European Parliament.

Just to add to that: residents of EU member states and people who work for companies headquartered in the EU have an equal right to do so - not just citizens.

(as a resident of an EU country, but not a citizen, this is important for me, as it's one of the few political things I can do here - I'm not allowed to vote, but I can officially petition the EU parliament, and also get a say in some local affairs within the state of Germany that I live in as an employee of a company based here)

until 1-2 years ago, lobbies of private interests ignored Eu parliament, because it held no power and it was a 'novelty' parliament. Pretty little parliament.

Lisbon treaty ended up giving powers to Eu parliament. Now, there is a powerful parliament, members of which were elected not through lobby support, but popular support and concerns.

right at the time they were trying to push acta to put a stranglehold on internet and emerging technologies and people's rights.... and there is not enough time to wait for reelection so that they can support their puppet representatives to power - not that they could easily though - europe is close to 1 billion people, and members get elected from all countries. its not something similar to dominating us houses or brit parliament...

Yeah in this case, politics works. It's not because they see this as for the good, they are doing it because they can get political capital out of it. Which in this case works out to be in favor of the people. The irony.

stop being a self rightous cunt.I'm pro EU.I like the whole free trade and free movement.

Not everyone who thinks the EU is overly ineffecient and bureaucratic is a daily mail reader or even actually against the EU.Not everyone who thinks the EU has had a long standing problem with corruption and lack of accountability is a daily mail reader or even actually against the EU.

Judging from your top level domain, you don't see the conflict in the first place. The EU system seems to be closely modelled on the French way of government, i.e. non-transparent decision making, the European School system for EU employee's kids (my sons are in one of these) are resembling the insane way the French conduct their education system, the EU hiring competitions (French as well) plus the insane and bureaucratic francophone administrators employed in the system.