While we were digging the area out with the skid loader, I kept hitting what I thought was a tree root....turned out to be a bath tub. The shed used to be a dog kennel and he used it for bathing the dogs with??? There were also silo staves all across the ground with 2" of dirt on top. What a mess!

iowa

08-10-2005, 05:46 PM

AFTER

Has anyone used the polymeric joint sand? I used it for the first time on this job and liked the results.

Drafto

08-10-2005, 07:55 PM

Looks good. I am just curious but is your edging nailed on top of the sand? It looks like you put the sand down then the edging on top of it?

Dan

iowa

08-10-2005, 10:25 PM

Yeah its nailed on top of the sand. I use really long nails to make sure I get to the base layer. It works for me.

cgland

08-10-2005, 10:41 PM

It may work for you, but it is not the proper way to do it.

Chris

rakeeye

08-10-2005, 10:50 PM

Your edge restraint should be installed on top of your base material. If the restraint is installed on top of your sand setting bed, the sand may migrate over time allowing space for your restraint to move. Removing the sand also drops the top edge of the restraint below the surface of the pavers for a better looking finished product.

iowa

08-10-2005, 11:05 PM

Yeah but look at it. It's a 2" edger and the pavers are 3". IT WORKS for me.

mbella

08-10-2005, 11:09 PM

What do you mean it works for you? It's not the right way to do it. The edge restraint would be much more stable on the base aggregate. Do you want any constructive criticisim? If not, why did you post the pics.

iowa

08-10-2005, 11:12 PM

Yeah its nailed on top of the sand. I use really long nails to make sure I get to the base layer. It works for me.

I'm talking 8" nails. 6" of that is in the base aggregate. Your telling me that isn't stable?

rakeeye

08-10-2005, 11:17 PM

The sand under the restraint leaves room for failure.

mbella

08-10-2005, 11:18 PM

What if some of that sand migrates over time? What's between the base aggregate and your edging? Just fyi, I've done a couple of these patio things and I am certain that the edging is more stable, upon completion and five years down the road, when fastened directly to the aggregate.

Also, I see you're young. That job looks like you put a lot of effort into it, but it is far from professional. I don't mean that to put you down. Like I said, it looks like you put a lot of effort into it, but you have a lot to learn if you are going to do this for a living.

iowa

08-10-2005, 11:37 PM

What if some of that sand migrates over time? What's between the base aggregate and your edging? Just fyi, I've done a couple of these patio things and I am certain that the edging is more stable, upon completion and five years down the road, when fastened directly to the aggregate.

Also, I see you're young. That job looks like you put a lot of effort into it, but it is far from professional. I don't mean that to put you down. Like I said, it looks like you put a lot of effort into it, but you have a lot to learn if you are going to do this for a living.

Yeah, I see you are one of the top over in this section when it comes to patios. I can take constructive criticisim but I need to ask questions along the way. What else have I done wrong?

Drafto

08-11-2005, 07:43 AM

Stable and serving its purpose are 2 different things. The purpose of the edge restraint it to 1, keep the sand from mitigating out and 2, to hold the pavers tight against one another to hold thier interlock. When you put the egde restraint on the base material it achieves the 2 things above. If it is only 1" to 1 1/2" up the side of the paver it is still serving it purpose. Someone will be out fixing that patio in a couple years or sooner b/c all the pavers around the edging will start to sink and settle. You might want to go back and fix it to prevent that from happening.

It does look nice like I said above, I did not mean to insult you. We are all here to keep each other in business and when we see something that is a potential to put you out of business, or lose a customer, we should be letting each other know. Mbella not sending his faxes to me are a perfect example, if I don't get them, I will price an over dig improperly and it will probably put me out of business, and his detail of the stairs, same thing, I will price myself right out of business (LOL).

Dan

iowa

08-14-2005, 01:34 PM

Yeah, I see you are one of the top over in this section when it comes to patios. I can take constructive criticisim but I need to ask questions along the way. What else have I done wrong?

mbella, what else have I done wrong?? I want to know!

ynvvbr

08-14-2005, 01:55 PM

Hey Iowa,

Since your asking, we do alot of these things and I have run in to others that were not done right. IF you want some help answer these few questions? As for the sand all these guys are right it will serive its purpose for the edging but in a few heavy rainfalls the bedding sand will wash out and leave a 1" gap between your edging restraint and your base which may contirbute to movement and failure. Not saying it will but it MIGHT. As for the work it does look really nice and your detail shows from what i see.

Questions:
1) What did you backfill behind the wall with and how much?
2) Your base you stated is 6" deep, which is good for a patio, did you use any fabric between your base and soil?
3) which way do you have the fall going? and how much fall per foot?
4) What tyoe of sand did you use to sweep into your pavers?

These are just some questions to help you along, I am by far no expert in this, but we have done abt 35 patios and driveways this year with pavers along with walls and abt 50 last year so we learned the hard way in the beginning, I swore I would save anyone from that aggrevation that wanted the help:)

Let us know the answers:)

iowa

08-14-2005, 05:39 PM

I filled with pea gravel, what they use around here for the drainage. The wall does stick up from the top of the ground about a foot.

I didn't use fabric, but I did use the versa-lok geo-grid as told by the paver dealer.

The fall is going to the bottom right of the patio, away from the wall and the shed. About a 1/4" per foot I figured?

I used polymeric joint sand.....

ynvvbr

08-14-2005, 09:51 PM

How far off the back of the wall did you fill with pea gravel? Did you use fabric to separate that from the soil?

The rest sounds on the money!!! Fall is right on. The only thing for the $50.00 for fabric you should always use it, trust me we learned the hard way on our first job last year, we redid it for free this Spring!!!

you did good using Polymeric too, it does make a difference. Your on the right track, in my opinion, like i said i am no expert, jst screwed up enough to learn:)

Just make sure you always use fabric behind wall as a soil separator for drainage gravel, put in a perforated drain pipe also (highly recommended), use fabric under patio, and fix your edging :D

Your on the right track, like I said overall the project looked really nice, and that is half the battle:)

mruth77

08-15-2005, 11:43 AM

Looks like the wall is leaning,,,maybe it's the picture that's deceiving !!