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Rafael wrote:you clearly are biased. Everytime someone says Yelawolf is a better rapper than Rittz you always link to the same damn song

that wasn't the case here but yeah if that's the point i'm trying to make why wouldn't i use that song? it's the clearest difference i can find. but any of their collabs will work. link me one where you think yw outshines rittz.

Rafael wrote:You might enjoy Rittz for his chopper flows and verses

i enjoy him for much more than those reasons.

Rafael wrote:its OKAY for you to like him better for that reason. Just don't go around saying he's better, when he isn't.

he is, and you're incredibly pretentious.

Rafael wrote:You seem to think, capability > artistry

in some aspects yeah. the line between the two is vague.

Rafael wrote:That is not the case. For example, Justin Timberlake is such a better singer than anyone in the Beatles, yet has he ever put out something anywhere near the artistic extravaganzas the Beatles were able to cook up? No.

also justin timberlake is nothing like the beatles. not even the same genre, let alone era.

Rafael wrote:Another example, Crooked I has outshined plenty of rappers, but he can't together a decent song to save his life, therefore only displaying him as someone who only raps. That's it. He's just a fucking rapper. No artistic value in him whatsoever.

...did you just say crooked has no artistic value? that's fucking ridiculous, did you even listen to his album? what are you basing this on? because it sounds like you've only heard his feature work, in which case yeah all he's doing is rhyme flexing.

Rafael wrote:Sure, Rittz is more capable at making better music than Crooked I, but that does not make him a better artist than Yela.

wait wait, what? i feel like you got a name mixed up here or something.

Rafael wrote:Rittz will never put a song like Catfish Billy together.

that's because he doesn't have an alter-ego (assuming that's what you were referring to). if not, be more specific about what it is in CB that Rittz is incapable of, because the flow, lyrics and sound, are all something he's already resembled very closely. however rittz doesn't create stories for the sake of music, he only writes whatever he's currently doing/involved in.

Rafael wrote:he's gonna stay stuck doing the same shit he's doing now for the following decade

...that being?

Rafael wrote:much like his label master, and run out of shit to say, eventually fading into the oblivion of rap.

assuming you're referring to tech, please show me one time he's made a track on the same subject twice. say what you will about tech but he's the least repetitive rapper i know of, he's never even used the same flow twice. the dude's list of topics is endless.

Rafael wrote:He has no artistic innovation to expand the mind with new sounds and flavors.

at this point you don't even know what you're talking about any more. have you actually listened through a rittz album yet? i have to assume you haven't at which point we just can't have this conversation due to it being one-sided.

Rafael wrote:I like Eminem, but D12 isn't my thing. Just because I like Yela, doesn't mean I gotta start sucking off everyone he co-signs. Fuck outta here with that.

again with the unequal comparisons. em is nothing like any of the rest of d12, so to only like one of them is understandable. whereas there's very little difference in the styles/sounds of rittz and yela, the only difference being rittz is usually prefers a lot of faster flows and obviously their personal stories/lives are different. other than that their sound is undeniably similar. shit even their voices are nearly identical at times.

jesus christ could you have a more cookie cutter list? aside from doom and maybe thought this is nearly everybodies go-to list for this kind of shit. i can tell by this alone you haven't delved into many artists at all. at which point of course these would be your favorites. why gza though what about him does it for you? he's one of the most forgettable artists i've heard, so much so that i haven't even bothered to listen to anything more than his features when they're on something i'm already listening to (hence why i ask)

Rafael wrote:You can go ahead and link all your little battle rappers, that I'm sure might be able to outrap the ones I listed, but put them in a studio against these guys, and let's see if they can make an album that'll stand the test of time, which in the end determines the longetivity of an artist.

Rafael wrote:Andre 3000 said it best, "Some sucker MC stepped up to me, challenged Andre to a battle and I stood there patiently. While he spit and stumbled over cliche, so called freestylin. Whole purpose is to make me feel low, I guess you whylin. I say look boy, I ain't for that fuck shit, so fuck this."

Rafael wrote:you clearly are biased. Everytime someone says Yelawolf is a better rapper than Rittz you always link to the same damn song

that wasn't the case here but yeah if that's the point i'm trying to make why wouldn't i use that song? it's the clearest difference i can find. but any of their collabs will work. link me one where you think yw outshines rittz.

You're acting like that song showcases everything both artists have to offer.

What a stupid point, that's like hearing one song and disliking someone entirely for it. Again, you disliked Yelawolf for an entire two years based off that verse for could have cared less to make. If that isn't one of the most biased and incredibly subjective things I've ever heard, than damn.

Growing Up in the Gutter would be a good example of where Yelawolf outshines Rittz. Yela displays raw emotion, where as Rittz just spits the same monotone verse as always. You seem to think outshining must be rapping faster, because it impresses you. But no, outshining is simply that. Out-shining, which Yelawolf is always the highlight of the songs they do together. If Rittz outshines Yela on EVERY track, why isn't he bigger than him yet? lmao

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:You seem to think, capability > artistry

in some aspects yeah. the line between the two is vague.

No, they are not. Someone can be a very good guitar player, but cant write a decent sheet of music. The fact that you agreed what I stated about you already demonstrates your shit tastes.

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:That is not the case. For example, Justin Timberlake is such a better singer than anyone in the Beatles, yet has he ever put out something anywhere near the artistic extravaganzas the Beatles were able to cook up? No.

also justin timberlake is nothing like the beatles. not even the same genre, let alone era.

Um, they were both pop music? Only the Beatles elevated it to art pop. You could also argue different era, but that doesn't mean the music is BETTER, which is the point I'm trying to make. They're examples, you cunt.

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:Another example, Crooked I has outshined plenty of rappers, but he can't together a decent song to save his life, therefore only displaying him as someone who only raps. That's it. He's just a fucking rapper. No artistic value in him whatsoever.

...did you just say crooked has no artistic value? that's fucking ridiculous, did you even listen to his album? what are you basing this on? because it sounds like you've only heard his feature work, in which case yeah all he's doing is rhyme flexing.

Yes, I've heard plenty of Crooked projects, which are some of the most boring and detestable listens I've ever had to sit through. You sure like boring music, huh? He made some of the worst, 'hey look! I can rap!" forgettable songs ever.

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:Sure, Rittz is more capable at making better music than Crooked I, but that does not make him a better artist than Yela.

wait wait, what? i feel like you got a name mixed up here or something.

Um, no. But I'm certainly questioning whether or not you can keep up with my conversation right now.

Rittz makes better music than Crooked I. THAT doesn't make him better at making music than Yelawolf. Do you understand now?

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:Rittz will never put a song like Catfish Billy together.

that's because he doesn't have an alter-ego (assuming that's what you were referring to). if not, be more specific about what it is in CB that Rittz is incapable of, because the flow, lyrics and sound, are all something he's already resembled very closely. however rittz doesn't create stories for the sake of music, he only writes whatever he's currently doing/involved in.

No, I wasn't talking about subject matter, I was referring to song with with artistic expansion of the genre. Songs that implement banjos and strings. INNOVATION. Something Rittz has never done. You could argue that the producer made that, but that isn't the case. The behind the scenes footage of the making TMR, you can see that Yela had the bigger say when composing and saying where each musical instrument had to go. Something Rittz would be lost in the studio doing because he's just a fucking rapper, not a full-fledged artist.

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:he's gonna stay stuck doing the same shit he's doing now for the following decade

...that being?

Rapping with a monotone voice, double time for the rest of his career.

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:much like his label master, and run out of shit to say, eventually fading into the oblivion of rap.

say what you will about tech but he's the least repetitive rapper i know of, he's never even used the same flow twice. the dude's list of topics is endless.

It is pretty endless when you start putting word that have no meaning next to each other. The here on TR were able to to perfectly recreate a tech verse by placing nonsense side-by side.

Seriously though, I've like early tech, but after Everready, he's just mostly been a rapper backed by great production rapping really fast. It's only gotten worse as of late.

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:He has no artistic innovation to expand the mind with new sounds and flavors.

at this point you don't even know what you're talking about any more.

No, I'm seriously worried you don't know what you're talking about. Since so far in our conversation, it's mostly been you not understanding what I've been trying to say and putting up really idiotic responses.

Elision wrote:have you actually listened through a rittz album yet? i have to assume you haven't at which point we just can't have this conversation due to it being one-sided.

I've heard every Rittz project, and I can tell you exactly what the next one is going to sound like. If it is anything different, I will lay down all swords, and firmly state you won this argument.

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:I like Eminem, but D12 isn't my thing. Just because I like Yela, doesn't mean I gotta start sucking off everyone he co-signs. Fuck outta here with that.

again with the unequal comparisons. em is nothing like any of the rest of d12, so to only like one of them is understandable. whereas there's very little difference in the styles/sounds of rittz and yela, the only difference being rittz is usually prefers a lot of faster flows and obviously their personal stories/lives are different. other than that their sound is undeniably similar. shit even their voices are nearly identical at times.

Okay, let me get this straight, because this right here was one your biggest fuck-ups in this argument. To say that the members of D12 have completely different styles is extremely far fetched (except Bizzare).

So Eminem and D12 have different styles? And then you go ahead and say Rittz and Yelawolf are identical, when you just stated reasons for them being different?

jesus christ could you have a more cookie cutter list? aside from doom and maybe thought this is nearly everybodies go-to list for this kind of shit. i can tell by this alone you haven't delved into many artists at all. at which point of course these would be your favorites. why gza though what about him does it for you? he's one of the most forgettable artists i've heard, so much so that i haven't even bothered to listen to anything more than his features when they're on something i'm already listening to (hence why i ask)

Okay, first of all. This list is a MILLION times better than that one list everyone quoted and laughed at in the top 10 thread. The one with Snow tha Product?

have you noticed you always say the same shit when your insecure about your argument? "Let me see your top 10?" Pathetic. Excuse me for not having a super underground trash list, you hipster fuck. You're probably the guy that goes around telling everyone their lists suck if they aren't all lyrical-miracle. Don't tell me what I've delved into and what I haven't you fucking bigot. These are artists that I've found to my personal taste because of the effect their music has had on me

Anyways, to answer your question. Have heard liquid swords? One of the best rap albums ever? If not, I suggest you do so immediately. The story-telling on that album is mind blowing.

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:You can go ahead and link all your little battle rappers, that I'm sure might be able to outrap the ones I listed, but put them in a studio against these guys, and let's see if they can make an album that'll stand the test of time, which in the end determines the longetivity of an artist.

Rafael wrote:Andre 3000 said it best, "Some sucker MC stepped up to me, challenged Andre to a battle and I stood there patiently. While he spit and stumbled over cliche, so called freestylin. Whole purpose is to make me feel low, I guess you whylin. I say look boy, I ain't for that fuck shit, so fuck this."

That's cute. You weren't able to understand, the verse is about how battle rappers will never measure of to artistic rappers, and how they end up looking stupid in the long run.

Rafael wrote:you clearly are biased. Everytime someone says Yelawolf is a better rapper than Rittz you always link to the same damn song

that wasn't the case here but yeah if that's the point i'm trying to make why wouldn't i use that song? it's the clearest difference i can find. but any of their collabs will work. link me one where you think yw outshines rittz.

You're acting like that song showcases everything both artists have to offer.

what gave you that impression? it's one song.

Rafael wrote:What a stupid point, that's like hearing one song and disliking someone entirely for it. Again, you disliked Yelawolf for an entire two years based off that verse for could have cared less to make. If that isn't one of the most biased and incredibly subjective things I've ever heard, than damn.

I disliked him because the verse was disrespectful. he talked all this shit about how rittz needed to get noticed and just needed the right people to say his name etc. etc. then he gets the chance to put a major-label feature on his album and yela basically freestyle's the shit in one take and tells his engi to send it over. it was a bullshit verse by anybodies standards and it should've never seen the light of day. yet yela sends it to be put on rittz's debut. that's why i disliked yw, it was a matter of respect, i've never questioned the dudes musical capability.

Rafael wrote:Growing Up in the Gutter would be a good example of where Yelawolf outshines Rittz. Yela displays raw emotion, where as Rittz just spits the same monotone verse as always.

yo if you honestly think yela > rittz on that track i just don't know what to tell you. rittz murdered that verse, it seems you don't understand rittz's display of emotion. the realer he gets the flatter his entire demeanor gets. it's very very rare to see him get all frantic and hysterical over anything, he's like a bodyguard.

Rafael wrote:You seem to think outshining must be rapping faster, because it impresses you.

it doesn't. i look at it as a tool to fit everything you need to say into however many bars you have to work with. if there's nothing actually being said within it, it does nothing for me besides maybe spice the track up a bit.

Rafael wrote:Yelawolf is always the highlight of the songs they do together.

well yeah that's because yela's fanbase is massive due to his shady endorsement. if their labels were reversed it'd be the polar opposite effect.

Rafael wrote:If Rittz outshines Yela on EVERY track, why isn't he bigger than him yet? lmao

because yelawolf is on shady records - a mainstream label branched to interscope. whereas rittz is on strange music, an in-house independent empire with almost no ties to any other part of the music industry. yela's on music island and rittz is on a boat 500 miles off-shore. strange has no radio play, no video play, nothing. which are things shady/interscope have an abundance of.

Rafael wrote:

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:You seem to think, capability > artistry

in some aspects yeah. the line between the two is vague.

No, they are not. Someone can be a very good guitar player, but cant write a decent sheet of music.

sure but how does this apply under our context given that we're talking about written music?

Rafael wrote:

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:That is not the case. For example, Justin Timberlake is such a better singer than anyone in the Beatles, yet has he ever put out something anywhere near the artistic extravaganzas the Beatles were able to cook up? No.

also justin timberlake is nothing like the beatles. not even the same genre, let alone era.

Um, they were both pop music? Only the Beatles elevated it to art pop. You could also argue different era, but that doesn't mean the music is BETTER

except it is so your point is moot. and don't start giving me this "that's subjective" bullshit.

Rafael wrote:

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:Another example, Crooked I has outshined plenty of rappers, but he can't together a decent song to save his life, therefore only displaying him as someone who only raps. That's it. He's just a fucking rapper. No artistic value in him whatsoever.

...did you just say crooked has no artistic value? that's fucking ridiculous, did you even listen to his album? what are you basing this on? because it sounds like you've only heard his feature work, in which case yeah all he's doing is rhyme flexing.

Yes, I've heard plenty of Crooked projects, which are some of the most boring and detestable listens I've ever had to sit through.

okay so you haven't, gotcha.

Rafael wrote:You sure like boring music, huh?

no

Rafael wrote:

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:Sure, Rittz is more capable at making better music than Crooked I, but that does not make him a better artist than Yela.

wait wait, what? i feel like you got a name mixed up here or something.

Um, no. But I'm certainly questioning whether or not you can keep up with my conversation right now.

Rittz makes better music than Crooked I. THAT doesn't make him better at making music than Yelawolf. Do you understand now?

jesus christ your level of condescension is matched only by classtheking. i still don't understand your point, how did crooked even get brought into this?

Rafael wrote:

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:Rittz will never put a song like Catfish Billy together.

that's because he doesn't have an alter-ego (assuming that's what you were referring to). if not, be more specific about what it is in CB that Rittz is incapable of, because the flow, lyrics and sound, are all something he's already resembled very closely. however rittz doesn't create stories for the sake of music, he only writes whatever he's currently doing/involved in.

No, I wasn't talking about subject matter, I was referring to song with with artistic expansion of the genre. Songs that implement banjos and strings.

are you seriously saying catfish billy was a song that expanded the artistry of the entire genre? yela's very not the first guy to use a banjo in rap, want examples? because i have a lot of them.

Rafael wrote:INNOVATION.Something Rittz has never done. You could argue that the producer made that, but that isn't the case. The behind the scenes footage of the making TMR, you can see that Yela had the bigger say when composing and saying where each musical instrument had to go. Something Rittz would be lost in the studio doing because he's just a fucking rapper, not a full-fledged artist.

you realize this is what white rapper was all about right? he spent years as a producer because nobody else would. he knows full well how to produce. it's just hard to out-prod seven over at strange, that guy's a machine.

Rafael wrote:

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:he's gonna stay stuck doing the same shit he's doing now for the following decade

...that being?

Rapping with a monotone voice, double time for the rest of his career.

did you listen to next to nothing? there's plenty of not-that on his most recent project. you say you did so you're either lying or being ignorant to the fact. going through hell, crown royal, blow, wish you could for example.

Rafael wrote:

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:much like his label master, and run out of shit to say, eventually fading into the oblivion of rap.

say what you will about tech but he's the least repetitive rapper i know of, he's never even used the same flow twice. the dude's list of topics is endless.

It is pretty endless when you start putting word that have no meaning next to each other.

such as? the only time he uses gibberish is to start up a really weird rhyme scheme, and even then the only times he's done it were on hunterish and death warrant.

Rafael wrote:The here on TR were able to to perfectly recreate a tech verse by placing nonsense side-by side.

huh? no idea what you meant here, i presume it was a typo or something.

Rafael wrote:Seriously though, I've like early tech, but after Everready, he's just mostly been a rapper backed by great production rapping really fast. It's only gotten worse as of late.

okay now just what the fuck. everything pre-everready is everything you're saying you hate. it was poor, sloppy music. he's done nothing but sharpened up since then, what is it about the pre-everready work you like that he's no longer doing 10x better? because it's almost all garbage to me. i have to be in a very specific mood to hear anghellic/absolute power/celcius/cbts.

Rafael wrote:

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:He has no artistic innovation to expand the mind with new sounds and flavors.

at this point you don't even know what you're talking about any more.

No, I'm seriously worried you don't know what you're talking about. Since so far in our conversation, it's mostly been you not understanding what I've been trying to say and putting up really idiotic responses.

i could say the same towards you.

Rafael wrote:

Elision wrote:have you actually listened through a rittz album yet? i have to assume you haven't at which point we just can't have this conversation due to it being one-sided.

I've heard every Rittz project

judging by this discussion no you haven't.

Rafael wrote:

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:I like Eminem, but D12 isn't my thing. Just because I like Yela, doesn't mean I gotta start sucking off everyone he co-signs. Fuck outta here with that.

again with the unequal comparisons. em is nothing like any of the rest of d12, so to only like one of them is understandable. whereas there's very little difference in the styles/sounds of rittz and yela, the only difference being rittz is usually prefers a lot of faster flows and obviously their personal stories/lives are different. other than that their sound is undeniably similar. shit even their voices are nearly identical at times.

Okay, let me get this straight, because this right here was one your biggest fuck-ups in this argument. To say that the members of D12 have completely different styles is extremely far fetched (except Bizzare).

So Eminem and D12 have different styles?

d12 isn't an artist. the artists it's composed of all have different styles.

Rafael wrote:And then you go ahead and say Rittz and Yelawolf are identical, when you just stated reasons for them being different?

they're identical in many prominent aspects, and you know that's exactly what i meant, don't play this dumb shit.

jesus christ could you have a more cookie cutter list? aside from doom and maybe thought this is nearly everybodies go-to list for this kind of shit. i can tell by this alone you haven't delved into many artists at all. at which point of course these would be your favorites. why gza though what about him does it for you? he's one of the most forgettable artists i've heard, so much so that i haven't even bothered to listen to anything more than his features when they're on something i'm already listening to (hence why i ask)

Okay, first of all. This list is a MILLION times better than that one list everyone quoted and laughed at in the top 10 thread. The one with Snow tha Product?

what's wrong with snow? i don't think anybody would disagree that she's the best female rapper doing it right now. the bitch is a juggernaut and can keep her head above water with any of today's elites. and she's never used sex appeal or anything but raw lyrical prowess to get by, even though she easily could. go listen to her weak minded verse or so dope verse, you'll come back with her in your top 10 too.

Rafael wrote:have you noticed you always say the same shit when your insecure about your argument? "Let me see your top 10?" Pathetic.

no i only ask when my favorite's get brought up so that i know who/what i'm talking to. it's a necessary point of reference.

Rafael wrote:Excuse me for not having a super underground trash list, you hipster fuck.

none of my top 10 are super underground besides maybe soul khan and shad. in fact i have a couple mainstream acts in there such as eminem.

Rafael wrote:Anyways, to answer your question. Have heard liquid swords? One of the best rap albums ever? If not, I suggest you do so immediately. The story-telling on that album is mind blowing.

no but i'll listen when i'm in my car later tonight. i appreciate the heads up.

Rafael wrote:

Elision wrote:

Rafael wrote:Andre 3000 said it best, "Some sucker MC stepped up to me, challenged Andre to a battle and I stood there patiently. While he spit and stumbled over cliche, so called freestylin. Whole purpose is to make me feel low, I guess you whylin. I say look boy, I ain't for that fuck shit, so fuck this."

That's cute. You weren't able to understand, the verse is about how battle rappers will never measure of to artistic rappers, and how they end up looking stupid in the long run.

no i wasn't able to understand how it was relevant here. not even sure how battle rappers got brought up.

Trimss wrote:Elision do you think Rittz is better than Yelawolf on Hammertime?

i think they both killed it. yela's delivery was awesome but the rhyming was weak compared to rittz, which as you know is important to me. love both of their flows though.

Rafael wrote:congratulations Elision. You have fully proved Rittz is better than Yelawolf

lol nah i'm just fuckin around man it's all love. i think yela's better in a many aspects, for instance he's capable of much more things with his voice. homeboy can actually sing and shit, whereas rittz just can't do much without an autotune overload. they're both super solid artists with nothing but promising futures ahead of them (assuming they don't die of alcohol poisoning first ahah)

Trimss wrote:Elision do you think Rittz is better than Yelawolf on Hammertime?

i think they both killed it. yela's delivery was awesome but the rhyming was weak compared to rittz, which as you know is important to me. love both of their flows though.

Rafael wrote:congratulations Elision. You have fully proved Rittz is better than Yelawolf

lol nah i'm just fuckin around man it's all love. i think yela's better in a many aspects, for instance he's capable of much more things with his voice. homeboy can actually sing and shit, whereas rittz just can't do much without an autotune overload. they're both super solid artists with nothing but promising futures ahead of them (assuming they don't die of alcohol poisoning first ahah)

Its all love too bruh.

And you are an impressive rapper btw. I enjoyed that one video you posted a while back.

Singin' "Bagpipes from Baghdad" againIn my dad's drag draggin' a faggot in a Glad bagWon't be the last time I make a dramatic entrance like that againYou thought I was lyin' when I said I think that I'm crossin' the line againI've lost my mind, caution oh God I think I've just thought of another fucking lineForgive me father, for I have sinnedBut hip hop has left me brainwashed with a violent streak