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Re: OT: WTF did Michael Irvin just say?

The rest of the sentence obviously softens the blow, but the statement taken as a whole is very cracist.

Why in the world is ok for minorities to compound the racist history of America by using it as "payback".

Statements like RGIII made are what progress this society beyond it's past. Stop singling out ethnic groups and they will stop being discriminated against.

It's quite sad that the most likely "cure" for this is a few generations of mixed ethnicity children LITERALLY blurring the lines between ethnic groups making the process of seperating them more difficult.

I have very little idea what most of this post even means, but I can assure you that what I said was not racism but fact. White people did shit. To a lot of groups in this country. For hundreds of years. What's past is past, but the past informs the present. It is ironic, amusing and (often) ignorant when white people make claims of racism not because it's impossible for other races to be racist, but because it is always ironic when an entity or group that has persecuted so much is suddenly feeling slighted.

This is right up there with people begging for a White History Month because they're too detached from reality to notice that, in the U.S., white history is just about everywhere and everything. It's right up there with people not getting that the point of affirmative action isn't to put unqualified people in high positions just because they happen to be non-white, but to correct centuries of institutional prejudice that has kept non-whites behind the eight ball, which forces them to play catch-up.

Originally Posted by HKusp

So the last thing we need right now is white people pointing out hypocrisy when it clearly is occurring? If you can't see the irony in that statement in the context of race then you shouldn't be participating in this discussion.

So the color of a persons skin still has bearing not the content of their character. Got. It. The next paragraph in your response says all anyone needs to know I guess....

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy. You are correct to say that. However, also correct is the fact that context exists, and that context matters. I said nothing about skin tone equaling character. I was pointing out the fact that history plays a part in this.

Re: OT: WTF did Michael Irvin just say?

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Sheesh...people get offended by dumb shit.

Who gives a damn what Irvin said?

Your just as bad with yur complete,y judgmental and dismissive rebuttal. The OP made a point about the clear hypocrisy in America regarding race. This is a forum. Wtf and who the fuck r u to judge? You're addition to the conversion was "people get offended by dumb shit, who gives a damn..." Obviously people do. If u don't, congratufuckinglations. But why don't u shut up and let people who want to discuss it, discuss it.

Re: OT: WTF did Michael Irvin just say?

Originally Posted by Rex Thunder

Your just as bad with yur complete,y judgmental and dismissive rebuttal. The OP made a point about the clear hypocrisy in America regarding race. This is a forum. Wtf and who the fuck r u to judge? You're addition to the conversion was "people get offended by dumb shit, who gives a damn..." Obviously people do. If u don't, congratufuckinglations. But why don't u shut up and let people who want to discuss it, discuss it.

Woah there tough guy.

First, my "people get offended by dumb shit" is just that. People DO in fact get offended by, relatively, dumb shit. My definition of dumb shit in this thread would be what Michael Irvin said. Did anyone think that maybe he was joking around and trying to be funny? This isn't the first questionable thing he has said on air where he was trying to be funny. In that context, not that big of a deal. This isn't what Rob Parker said about RGIII a few weeks ago. Thus, why I say "who gives a damn what Irvin said". Because, really, who cares?

If you are so offended by my "judgemental" ( ) and dismissive nature to what Michael Irvin said, then maybe the internet isn't for you pal. Stick with Lifetime TV.

Re: OT: WTF did Michael Irvin just say?

Originally Posted by akashicrecorder

I have very little idea what most of this post even means, but I can assure you that what I said was not racism but fact. White people did shit. To a lot of groups in this country. For hundreds of years. What's past is past, but the past informs the present. It is ironic, amusing and (often) ignorant when white people make claims of racism not because it's impossible for other races to be racist, but because it is always ironic when an entity or group that has persecuted so much is suddenly feeling slighted.

Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?

Originally Posted by akashicrecorder

This is right up there with people begging for a White History Month because they're too detached from reality to notice that, in the U.S., white history is just about everywhere and everything. It's right up there with people not getting that the point of affirmative action isn't to put unqualified people in high positions just because they happen to be non-white, but to correct centuries of institutional prejudice that has kept non-whites behind the eight ball, which forces them to play catch-up.

The problem with affirmative action is it perpetuates racism. Take the "Rooney Rule" for example, saying you have to interview at least one minority does few things. 1) It says you're not good enough to get an interview on your qualifications and knowledge alone 2) It also says no one will interview/hire you unless we force them to, because they're racist (what other option is there)? 3) It makes racism more of an issue simply by having the rule - just having the rule will lead people to talk about it (obviously) so there must be racism, right?

As to the topic of this thread. What Irvin said, doesn't necessarily mean he's racist. The problem with what he said is he just labeled all his friends in Miami as racist.

Personally, I am not offended with what he said, but it's not okay he said it. The OP has a point, if a white guy said it he'd be fired. We'll never move on from racism as long as a double standard like this exist.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin

Re: OT: WTF did Michael Irvin just say?

kind of like the difference between a woman calling a man a dick and a man calling a woman a cunt. both are the same thing technically. neither are really good, but ones certainly more accepted than the other.

Re: OT: WTF did Michael Irvin just say?

This is a discussion. People are making themselves understood, joking a bit to keep it light, and working toward consensus even as we acknowledge that true agreement is unlikely.

Just because it's not 6 pages of people agreeing with you doesn't mean it's a bad discussion.

I didn't expect it would be people agreeing with me. I expected people having a discussion, but when the discussion turns into "who cares what so-and-so says?" It starts to not be a good discussion. I obviously care or I wouldn't have started the thread.

Re: OT: WTF did Michael Irvin just say?

Originally Posted by HKusp

I didn't expect it would be people agreeing with me. I expected people having a discussion, but when the discussion turns into "who cares what so-and-so says?" It starts to not be a good discussion. I obviously care or I wouldn't have started the thread.

For the record, I like Michael Irvin.

Let me be clear HKusp, the reason why I "don't care" and don't understand why you or anyone else would care is because it is Michael Effin Irvin. This isn't Obama or someone of actual importance saying questionable things on air. This is Michael Irvin. Frankly, I'm surprised he doesn't say more things like that. He isn't intelligent. The only reason he has a job is because of who he is and he brings color (no pun intended) commentary to talking about the NFL.

Tom Jackson, Tony Dungy, and even Keyshawn Johnson are all black men on sports TV and they bring a fair amount of knowledge and intellect to the table. They joke around, but they are aware that they are being viewed by millions of people while commenting on the NFL. Michael Strahan even could be added into this group. I think it would be more of a head-scratcher if one of those guys said something like that on TV because that isn't how they have historically acted. In fact, I'd argue that they probably never would say something along those lines because they actually care about being taken seriously. Michael Irvin, regardless of what he may say, obviously has no intentions of ever really being taken seriously. So, why be offended by all of the dumb that tumbles out of his mouth? Michael Irvin has been that way since he was on the Cowboys.

You have Dave Chappelle as your signature line right now. That guy has made fun of all races and made racist comments in public, on TV (comedy central, for instance), yet no one seems to get up in arms about that. Why? Because he's a comedian and in context, it isn't offensive.

There is a big difference between what Rob Parker said and what Michael Irvin said. What Parker said was hateful, judgmental, and flat out mean. What Irvin said was meant to be in jest and not be taken too seriously. Parker wanted to have his comments be taken seriously. There is a difference there. I'd hope that you can see that.

Re: OT: WTF did Michael Irvin just say?

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?

The problem with affirmative action is it perpetuates racism. Take the "Rooney Rule" for example, saying you have to interview at least one minority does few things. 1) It says you're not good enough to get an interview on your qualifications and knowledge alone 2) It also says no one will interview/hire you unless we force them to, because they're racist (what other option is there)? 3) It makes racism more of an issue simply by having the rule - just having the rule will lead people to talk about it (obviously) so there must be racism, right?

As to the topic of this thread. What Irvin said, doesn't necessarily mean he's racist. The problem with what he said is he just labeled all his friends in Miami as racist.

Personally, I am not offended with what he said, but it's not okay he said it. The OP has a point, if a white guy said it he'd be fired. We'll never move on from racism as long as a double standard like this exist.

Spot on.
I'm not telling black people to "get over it", I'm telling them to "move beyond it" and "get out of their own way".

The common expression in MD is "pulling eachother down like Crabs in a pot" and it couldn't be much more right. People like Michael Irvin drag you down while people like RGIII are trying to pull you out. RGIII couldn't have been more right,stop looking at him and comparing him to black QB's, compare him to QB's... THe NAACP served it's point in history, and is now simply dragging the black man down. Affirmative action served it's point, and is now only dragging the black man down. It's time for everyoe to look beyondrace and into the "content of one's character" as the good doctor explained about 50 years ago. Only then will equal footing be achieved.

Let me be clear HKusp, the reason why I "don't care" and don't understand why you or anyone else would care is because it is Michael Effin Irvin. This isn't Obama or someone of actual importance saying questionable things on air. This is Michael Irvin. Frankly, I'm surprised he doesn't say more things like that. He isn't intelligent. The only reason he has a job is because of who he is and he brings color (no pun intended) commentary to talking about the NFL.

Tom Jackson, Tony Dungy, and even Keyshawn Johnson are all black men on sports TV and they bring a fair amount to the table. I think it would be more of a head-scratcher if one of those guys said something like that on TV because that isn't how they have historically acted.

Michael Irvin has been that way since he was on the Cowboys.

You have Dave Chappelle as your signature line right now. That guy has made fun of all races and made racist comments in public, on TV (comedy central, for instance), yet no one seems to get up in arms about that. Why? Because he's a comedian and in context, it isn't offensive.

There is a big difference between what Rob Parker said and what Michael Irvin said. What Parker said was hateful, judgmental, and flat out mean. What Irvin said was meant to be in jest and not be taken too seriously. Parker wanted to have his comments be taken seriously. There is a difference there. I'd hope that you can see that.

You Sir, win the Interwebs. Well said.

WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.

Re: OT: WTF did Michael Irvin just say?

Originally Posted by jonboy79

Spot on. I'm not telling black people to "get over it", I'm telling them to "move beyond it" and "get out of their own way".

The common expression in MD is "pulling eachother down like Crabs in a pot" and it couldn't be much more right. People like Michael Irvin drag you down while people like RGIII are trying to pull you out. RGIII couldn't have been more right,stop looking at him and comparing him to black QB's, compare him to QB's... THe NAACP served it's point in history, and is now simply dragging the black man down. Affirmative action served it's point, and is now only dragging the black man down. It's time for everyoe to look beyondrace and into the "content of one's character" as the good doctor explained about 50 years ago. Only then will equal footing be achieved.