Hillary Clinton defended the speaking fees she and Bill Clinton have received since leaving the White House, saying they “struggled” with mortgages and their daughter’s education and had to pay off debts.

“We came out of the White House not only dead broke, but in debt,” Clinton told Diane Sawyer in an interview with ABC News. “We had no money when we got there, and we struggled to, you know, piece together the resources for mortgages, for houses, for Chelsea’s education. You know, it was not easy.”

When asked about the reported $5 million she has earned and over $100 million that Bill Clinton has earned from speeches, the former secretary of state said the former president has worked “very hard.”

“It’s been amazing to me — he’s worked very hard. First of all, we had to pay off all our debts, which was, you know, he had to make double the money because of obviously taxes and then pay off the debts and get us houses and take care of family members,” Clinton said.

Clinton, who said she also gives lots of speeches for free, defended her speaking fee, a reported average of $200,000, when asked if people would be able to understand such a figure.

“I thought making speeches for money was a much better thing than getting connected with any one group or company as so many people who leave public life do,” Clinton said.