Broncos linebacker Wesley Woodyard did not practice Tuesday because of a sprained ankle. It looks unlikely he will be able to recover enough to play Thursday night in Oakland.That would put rookie Danny Trevathan and D.J. Williams in position to be a part of the Broncos' latest attempt to solve a defensive riddle that has vexed them for much of the season.Consider that 35 percen...

One thing that always puzzles me about the coverage in the second level between the hash marks:

When you see a successful completion to a running back or a tight end, you often see the linebackers in zone coverage spaced in a line parallel to the line of scrimmage. They wait for the QB to begin his throw to the tailback or tight end and then react, but by the time they close the distance the guy has tucked the ball away and turned upfield.

If the opposing offense has a primary target why not have one linebacker man up on him close to the line of scrimmage? I know these pass catchers are fast and you don't want to give up a big play, but on third down or near the goal line isn't it worth getting a guy into position to break up the pass or at least tackle the guy during the catch?

retro-grouch wrote:One thing that always puzzles me about the coverage in the second level between the numbers:

When you see a successful completion to a running back or a tight end, you often see the linebackers in zone coverage spaced in a line parallel to the line of scrimmage. They wait for the QB to begin his throw to the tailback or tight end and then react, but by the time they close the distance the guy has tucked the ball away and turned upfield.

If the opposing offense has a primary target why not have one linebacker man up on him close to the line of scrimmage? I know these pass catchers are fast and you don't want to give up a big play, but on third down or near the goal line isn't it worth getting a guy into position to break up the pass or at least tackle the guy during the catch?

I'm guessing you then are over-committing to the pass. All the TE needs to do is be a body in the way. The linebacker would then have a harder time getting back into the play to stop the run. Here's where personnel, the on the field talent, can make a difference. If you've got a solid D-line, one that's good against the run, it frees up linebackers to concentrate on tighter coverage with TEs and RBs. Maybe they have a split second more to read a play as it develops and then react if the D-line does their job clogging lanes and making tackles. I'm sure it gets much more complicated when you take into account the offense's talent and play calling tendencies.

Not only that but the Donks have the #3 D in all of the NFL in yardage given up. Not really sure what the root of the complaint is. These LBs are covering ground immediately, shutting down plays, not giving up big yardage to short passes, and forcing punts. That's how a championship defense does it.

This is not hoops where you play man-to-man D. Corners and safeties and sometimes maybe LBs man up on a receiver in obvious passing situations but for the most part the LBs are responsible for shutting down the middle of the field using a zone type of mentality and scheme. Just be glad we have Von, WW, and that new Keith Brooking manning he middle with DJ as a backup. It beats the days of Joe Mays and Nate Webster.

qman wrote:Not only that but the Donks have the #3 D in all of the NFL in yardage given up. Not really sure what the root of the complaint is. These LBs are covering ground immediately, shutting down plays, not giving up big yardage to short passes, and forcing punts. That's how a championship defense does it.

This is not hoops where you play man-to-man D. Corners and safeties and sometimes maybe LBs man up on a receiver in obvious passing situations but for the most part the LBs are responsible for shutting down the middle of the field using a zone type of mentality and scheme. Just be glad we have Von, WW, and that new Keith Brooking manning he middle with DJ as a backup. It beats the days of Joe Mays and Nate Webster.

It's the talent that's getting it done, not the scheme.

They did struggle more early one in the year against tight ends, but seemed to get a lot better. Wonder if it is just coincidence that Mays was the MLB at the time?

retro-grouch wrote:One thing that always puzzles me about the coverage in the second level between the numbers:

When you see a successful completion to a running back or a tight end, you often see the linebackers in zone coverage spaced in a line parallel to the line of scrimmage. They wait for the QB to begin his throw to the tailback or tight end and then react, but by the time they close the distance the guy has tucked the ball away and turned upfield.

If the opposing offense has a primary target why not have one linebacker man up on him close to the line of scrimmage? I know these pass catchers are fast and you don't want to give up a big play, but on third down or near the goal line isn't it worth getting a guy into position to break up the pass or at least tackle the guy during the catch?

I'm guessing you then are over-committing to the pass. All the TE needs to do is be a body in the way. The linebacker would then have a harder time getting back into the play to stop the run. Here's where personnel, the on the field talent, can make a difference. If you've got a solid D-line, one that's good against the run, it frees up linebackers to concentrate on tighter coverage with TEs and RBs. Maybe they have a split second more to read a play as it develops and then react if the D-line does their job clogging lanes and making tackles. I'm sure it gets much more complicated when you take into account the offense's talent and play calling tendencies.

Yeah, I get what you're driving at and what I'm saying is that they need to adjust their priorities in specific situations. For example, against the Steelers you know that Heath Miller is getting targeted on third down. Next week Ray Rice is going to be the check down on a ton of passing plays so you don't want to lose track of him when he brushes by his chip block and crosses the line of scrimmage.

You can't treat these guys like just another option because they are always getting the ball in certain situations. If you get in that situation you can't let them execute their bread and butter favorite play.

qman wrote:Not only that but the Donks have the #3 D in all of the NFL in yardage given up. Not really sure what the root of the complaint is. These LBs are covering ground immediately, shutting down plays, not giving up big yardage to short passes, and forcing punts. That's how a championship defense does it.

This is not hoops where you play man-to-man D. Corners and safeties and sometimes maybe LBs man up on a receiver in obvious passing situations but for the most part the LBs are responsible for shutting down the middle of the field using a zone type of mentality and scheme. Just be glad we have Von, WW, and that new Keith Brooking manning he middle with DJ as a backup. It beats the days of Joe Mays and Nate Webster.

It's the talent that's getting it done, not the scheme.

They did struggle more early one in the year against tight ends, but seemed to get a lot better. Wonder if it is just coincidence that Mays was the MLB at the time?

Mays seemed overwhelmed by the play recognition challenges and for a guy of his size he sure blew a lot of tackles.

I also noticed early in the season that the second level consistently set up too deep on third and long and they let a whole bunch of plays get just past the sticks.

But qman, I do think the scheme is having an impact in several situations. Their sub-packages are confusing the hell out of a lot of QBs including Rivers, Brees, Freeman and let's not forget Carson Palmer. They're showing different looks with 5, 6, and 7 defensive backs, occasionally using zone blitzes but also getting good pressure without the blitz.

The QBs don't like dealing with different number of defensive backs and pass rushers on every play. It's hard for them to get comfortable with their reads. Good stuff from Del Rio.

I have a feeling that this article could be written for any of the 32 teams in the league. Big, athletic tight ends are on almost every team and they are too big for cornerbacks to cover and too athletic for most linebackers thus you see them all have big games week in and week out. If you can limit them somewhat and not let them single-handily beat you you're having a successful day IMO.

I hear ya brother but these boys are playing fast. Like has already been mentioned, getting Mays outta there was huge. He was like a larger, slower Nate Webster. Both take bad angles and miss tackles.

You're also right that early on the secondary didn't play too well. Not only were they too deep at times but they'd also bite too hard on others. I disagree that scheme is confusing anybody. Five, six, and seven DBacks is nothing new. Donks have been trying everything for years only to get torched every year. I think the key this year is pressure to the QB. It's been what we fans have been complaining about since 1999. Opposing QBs have had far too much time to pass. That seems to be over now which allows the secondary to react quickly.

Although we'll see come playoff time if we can put heat on Schaub or Brady. Schaub has a good team around him and Brady is hard to rattle. Pressure has to get to Brady quickly just like it does to Manning or it's game over for the opponent. It's still encouraging though. In past years guys like Brady Quinn on teams like the Chiefs would have banner games against our D due to lack of QB pressure.

Although getting trounced on the ground by the Pats and Chiefs (although the Chiefs didn't keep it up) still scares me. I'm still not convinced our DLine is uber powerful but it's hard to argue with the fact that our defense is #3 in the league in yards given up. There is meaning in that ranking.

I think that if we have to play the Pats they’ll go big and run the ball down our throats to get us out of our base D and then throw to Gronk and Hernandez. That will be a tough game. Hopefully someone knocks them off first. On the flip side, I think Manning can torch them so maybe we get into a scoring race.

The biggest key for defenders on TEs is to use the 5-yard zone off the line of scrimmage to initiate contact to throw the timing and routes off. None of this chip-block brush-off stuff. Slow them up and throw them off and their timing is shot and allows help to come over and break up the pass.

"I am an individualist anarcho-libertarian, not a liberal or conservative. I would not deign to devolve down to that level of political ignorance, nor embrace their pandemic codependent mental illness that is statism."

The Patriots may not have gotten the ball to Gronk, but they exposed the issue: Mays was too slow to cover and Woodyard isn't as good against the run as Mays. So if Mays was in, they'd pass short (to Welker); when Woodyard in, they'd run the ball, all audibles. Josh McD knows.

So now it's DJ, Brooking and Miller as the base defense. Seems the onus is now on Brooking, as DJ and Miller are solid. I'd expect Brooking to be caught in a mismatch or two. He's had had a helluva career, they need to squeeze one more year out of him...