Su-27: News

My understanding was that the P in Su-27P was for interceptor for PVO units, while standard frontal aviation units had fighters designated S.

AFAIK they even had different systems so the R-27ER and ET missiles that the PVO used were not the same as the R-27ER and ET missiles the Frontal Aviation used.

The PVO tended to use datalinks rather more.

_________________“The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

George1 wrote:Rus to overhaul its fleet of Su-33s till 2019 2 fighters per year

https://twitter.com/KURYERSAT/status/699337771211694084

I understand to overhaul its fleet of Su-33, that they will overhaul all 16 Su-33, that are operational. On the other side some of them return from KNAAZ few years ago, so I don't know if all of them need overhauling. If this is connected with modernization to Su-27SM3 level, than it have sense.

More Su-27SM's to Besovet. According to this article there where only 45 -27SM's left, 2 at Ahtubinsk, 10 at Belbek, 18 at Dzemgi and that would leave 15 at Uglovaya. Those at Dzemgi being moved to Besovet.

Interesting. Where are the rest of Su-27SM? they produce 53 Su-27SM, 5 for Lipetsk and 48 for Dzemgi and Uglovaya. they lost 2 in crashes, so 6 were somewhere. I think they will quite soon send all their Su-27SM and Su-30M2 in Belbek and Besovets as they are getting replaced by Su-35 and Su-30SM in Dzemgi and Uglovaya. For now, they have enough Su-30M2 for existing Su-27SM/SM3 units. 12 in Krymsk together with 12 new built Su-27SM3 to form a combined regiment and 4 in Belbek and 4 in Besovets to form regiments with Su-27SM from Dzemgi and Uglovaya. Bit for 36 more Su-27SM3 they will need at least 6 more Su-30M2 or 16 if they will make another combined regiment with 12 Su-27SM3 and 12 Su-30M2. I don't think those additional Su-27SM3 will be without twin seaters.

medo wrote:Interesting. Where are the rest of Su-27SM? they produce 53 Su-27SM, 5 for Lipetsk and 48 for Dzemgi and Uglovaya. they lost 2 in crashes, so 6 were somewhere. I think they will quite soon send all their Su-27SM and Su-30M2 in Belbek and Besovets as they are getting replaced by Su-35 and Su-30SM in Dzemgi and Uglovaya. For now, they have enough Su-30M2 for existing Su-27SM/SM3 units. 12 in Krymsk together with 12 new built Su-27SM3 to form a combined regiment and 4 in Belbek and 4 in Besovets to form regiments with Su-27SM from Dzemgi and Uglovaya. Bit for 36 more Su-27SM3 they will need at least 6 more Su-30M2 or 16 if they will make another combined regiment with 12 Su-27SM3 and 12 Su-30M2. I don't think those additional Su-27SM3 will be without twin seaters.

There still could be 5 Su-27SM's at Lipetsk making 50, as this article doesn't mention any aircraft at Lipetsk. It just breaks down the status of the original 48 at Dzemgi and Uglovaya, when you think about it. And an article from last year mentioned 5 -27SM's at Lipetsk.

A Russian fighter flew within 50 feet of a U.S. reconnaissance plane flying over the Baltic Sea, barrel-rolling over the top of American RC-135 in a dangerous maneuver that put the U.S. aircrew at risk, U.S. European Command said.

"This unsafe and unprofessional air intercept has the potential to cause serious harm and injury to all aircrews involved," said Navy Capt. Danny Hernandez, EUCOM spokesman. "More importantly, the unsafe and unprofessional actions of a single pilot have the potential to unnecessarily escalate tensions between countries."

The incident, which took place Thursday in international airspace over the Baltic Sea, is the latest in a string of incidents that have brought Russian and U.S. forces into close contact. On Monday and Tuesday, Russian fighter jets buzzed the Navy destroyer USS Donald Cook in the Black Sea, prompting formal protests by the U.S.

During Thursday’s incident, the U.S. RC-135 was flying a routine route when it was intercepted by a Russian SU-27, EUCOM said.

"The Su-27 performed erratic and aggressive maneuvers," Hernandez said. "More specifically, the SU-27 closed within 50 feet of the wing-tip of the RC-135 and conducted a barrel roll starting from the left side of the aircraft, going over the top of the aircraft and ended up to the right of the aircraft."

During the past year, there have been several close encounters between Russian and U.S. forces by sea and in the air. However, the recent Russian maneuvers appear to be getting more provocative, with a Pentagon official saying last week the moves were "more aggressive than anything we’ve seen in some time."

The incidents come as the U.S. pushes forward with plans to expand its presence along NATO’s eastern flank, which has been an area of increased focus in the wake of Russia’s 2014 intervention in Ukraine. Next year, the U.S. Army also plans to deploy a rotational heavy brigade to Europe, along with tanks and other armor, that will be positioned in and around the Baltics. Russia has criticized those plans and warned of countermeasures.

Russia’s defense ministry on Saturday disputed the U.S. account of Thursday’s incident, telling CNN that the Russian fighter responded to an unidentified aircraft flying toward the Russian border and that the SU-27 "performed strictly in accordance with the international regulations on the use of airspace."

EUCOM said the American aircraft was flying in international airspace and at no time was headed for, or crossed into, Russian territory.

"There have been repeated incidents over the last year where Russian military aircraft have come close enough to other air and sea traffic to raise serious safety concerns, and we are very concerned with any such behavior," Hernandez said.

Russians 'barrel roll' over another U.S. Air Force plane in Baltic Sea

A Russian SU-27 conducted a "barrel roll" Friday over the top of a U.S. Air Force RC-135 which was flying a reconnaissance mission in international airspace above the Baltic Sea, the Defense Department said.

The Russian SU-27 approached alongside within 25 feet of the U.S. aircraft and then flew inverted over the top of the plane to the other side, Lt. Col. Michelle L. Baldanza, a U.S. Army spokesperson, said in a statement.

RC-135U reconnaissance plane tried to sneak up to the Russian border with the transponder turned off all the time. Therefore, air defense forces on duty had to lift the fighter to visually identify the type of aircraft and its tail number.

Reconnaissance aircraft US Air Force once again approached the borders of Russia

American military transport aircraft reconnaissance RC-135V approached the coast of the Kaliningrad region. On Sunday, May 15 writes "RIA Novosti" referring to the Baltic Watch.

According to the portal, reconnaissance aircraft, tail number 64-14844 and callsign ELGIN33 took off from an air base "Mildenhall" in the UK and is located in the southern part of the Baltic Sea. Transponder in RC-135V is included.

Baltic Watch argues that from an air base in the Kaliningrad region to intercept the American machine flew a Russian fighter Su-27.

"RIA Novosti" writes that this is the fifth such incident this week. Last occurred two days ago, on 13 May. Then reconnaissance aircraft number 62-4131 and call sign TANGY18 also close to the borders of the Kaliningrad region.

American military transport aircraft reconnaissance RC-135V approached the coast of the Kaliningrad region

Hahahaha... transport recon aircraft?

Why do they mention military or recon at all... this is an innocent Little Red Riding Hood, Sunday School going little girl who is totally innocent... the fact that she is 2,000km from her base of operations and a few metres inside international waters outside the Big Bears place with a scanty little bikini on waving her ass at Big Bear jnr and is surprised when Big Bear Jnr comes running out with a hard on is the real news here...

I guess the stories about Russia aggressively sending Bear bombers to the UK were a mistake... it was actually the British being aggressive sending up interceptors to intercept Bears flying in international airspace...

double standard?

_________________“The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

why doesnt Russia try to sell its Su-27 in upgraded form of SM to other countries as they begin to replace them with Su-30 and Su-35? could sell them off quite a bit cheaper than Su-30 i am sure some countries would be interested

Why do they mention military or recon at all... this is an innocent Little Red Riding Hood, Sunday School going little girl who is totally innocent... the fact that she is 2,000km from her base of operations and a few metres inside international waters outside the Big Bears place with a scanty little bikini on waving her ass at Big Bear jnr and is surprised when Big Bear Jnr comes running out with a hard on is the real news here...

why doesnt Russia try to sell its Su-27 in upgraded form of SM to other countries as they begin to replace them with Su-30 and Su-35? could sell them off quite a bit cheaper than Su-30 i am sure some countries would be interested

Why would you buy well used Flankers with an SM upgrade when brand new aircraft with SM upgrade are not selling that well.

Those with the money are buying Su-35s... those without money are not buying anything..

_________________“The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

d_taddei2 wrote:why doesnt Russia try to sell its Su-27 in upgraded form of SM to other countries as they begin to replace them with Su-30 and Su-35? could sell them off quite a bit cheaper than Su-30 i am sure some countries would be interested

Indonezia buy 5 Su-27SMK. It seems customer more liked to buy twin seater Su-30MK2 for multirole fighter than single seater Su-27SMK. Most probably Su-30MK2 are better suited for long range over the sea patrols as well as for ground attacks, which are the job of WSO in the back seat.

some fair points, i saw that maybe selling thm cheap could be a stop gap for some air forces and a chance for Russia get rid of some and make some money, as normal they will no doubt end up in scrap yard. I always find that Russia doesnt seem that bother in pushing to get rid of its older equipment when it could easily be sold on to poorer nations, its a win win situation for everyone involved, Russia gets to make some money(not just original sale but also ongoing spare parts), get rid of older equipment, and gain additional customers for future purchases, and the country buying gets to equip its forces on the cheap. Russia could easily do this with the amount of equipment it has laying around idle, especially in terms of armour. And with certain countries now looking to protect itself from ISIS this could be ideal time.

Russia is a big country and in some places a T-62 with a 115mm main gun is good enough against the local enemy... that might not have any tanks of its own, let alone anti tank weapons.

Certainly getting rid of old stuff is a good thing... getting rid of T-62s eliminates the 115mm smoothbore gun from the inventory and the T-55 and T-54 would get rid of the 100mm rifled tank gun... but production of the 100mm ammo makes sense as they are still in use around the world.

Ideally getting to the point where all MBT guns are 125mm makes sense logistically and in terms of towed guns 125mm would be good to in terms of stockpiling ammo in storage areas.

Quite often old equipment can be more expensive to operate because of the age of the systems and the lack of spares and support equipment.

Rather than selling T-55s I am sure they would prefer to be selling base model T-72/90s, or Flankers.

Newer systems have easier to maintain electronics even if they are not state of the art.

Imagine trying to find a new hard drive for your Amiga 500 now? An external floppy drive would cost hundreds of dollars...

Much of the older stuff will become targets or airfield hacks or training equipment to teach the basics in without wearing out the new stuff... of course even this will happen less with computer based training equipment.

_________________“The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

d_taddei2 wrote:some fair points, i saw that maybe selling thm cheap could be a stop gap for some air forces and a chance for Russia get rid of some and make some money, as normal they will no doubt end up in scrap yard. I always find that Russia doesnt seem that bother in pushing to get rid of its older equipment when it could easily be sold on to poorer nations, its a win win situation for everyone involved, Russia gets to make some money(not just original sale but also ongoing spare parts), get rid of older equipment, and gain additional customers for future purchases, and the country buying gets to equip its forces on the cheap. Russia could easily do this with the amount of equipment it has laying around idle, especially in terms of armour. And with certain countries now looking to protect itself from ISIS this could be ideal time.

What type of Flanker is bought also depend on customers need. New standard Su-27 was bought only by Vietnam and China in the nineties for air defense needs. Later Indonesia bought Su-27SMK similarly for air defense needs. Angola, Etiopia and Eritrea bought used Su-27 fighters, I think mostly from Ukraine and they used them for air defense. But all other customers, which need more multirole or for longer range patrols go for Su-30 of various versions. Su-30 have IFR capabilities and crew of two.

You must have in mind, that longer distance also mean longer time of flying. Basic Su-27 doesn't have an IFR capabilities, so single seater is the best option for its needs. Su-35 have IFR and is multirole, but it have only 1 pilot in cabin, which is alone for all tasks. Although modern computers and avionics well reduce his work, he still have to fly and control the plane and do his combat work, so such single seater is best suited to fly 6 hours, max to 8 hours, what mean around 1 refueling in the air. If the pilot will fly longer, his concentration will fall too much and flying will not be that safe. Twin seater Su-30 of all variants could fly longer, like 10 to 12 hours as both could fly and control the plane, what mean they could divide their work and have time to rest in between. But they are still limited to sitting on their sits in the cabin like in all other western fighters like F-15E, F/A-18F, twin seater Rafale or Eurofighter, etc. The best fighter for long flights is Su-34. Not only, that both members of crew could fly the plane and could with that divide the work and rest, they could also stand from their sits and do some exercises and they also have thermo bottles for tea or coffee and bags for food like sandwiches or similar and portable pisoars, which enable them that they could fly for 12 hours or even more. So they could make more in flight refuelings. We must not forget, that in air to air role Su-34 is no worse than F/A-18, as it have similar speed and agility and very powerful radar which also have excellent air to air capabilities and could use all the most modern Russian AAMs.

I think this somehow explain, why Su-35 is still mostly air defense and air dominance fighter first with multirole as secondary capabilities. Su-34 is fighter-bomber for ground attacks first with air defense fighter as secondary capabilities. Su-30SM is in between and for long range fighter escort better suited than Su-35 because of the crew of two. I have no doubt, that Su-30SM will be bought in quite a significant numbers and when they will be equipped with new Khibiny ECM pods and new targeting pod, they will be very potent platforms for some decades.

Perhaps, this news from Mil.Today shed some light... Russian Defense Ministry suspends flights of Su-27 fighters until clarification of causes of the air crash happened Thursday morning, June 9, in Moscow Region.The Russian military authority reports that, according to preliminary data, the jet crash was caused by a technical failure. The pilot did everything possible to drive the aircraft away from an inhabited locality, so had no time for catapulting.

bantaa wrote:Perhaps, this news from Mil.Today shed some light... Russian Defense Ministry suspends flights of Su-27 fighters until clarification of causes of the air crash happened Thursday morning, June 9, in Moscow Region.The Russian military authority reports that, according to preliminary data, the jet crash was caused by a technical failure. The pilot did everything possible to drive the aircraft away from an inhabited locality, so had no time for catapulting.

That so, a noble death for that man then. He died a hero what more can be said.

MOSCOW, July 3 -. RIA Novosti Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov on Sunday inspected the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Plant named after Yuri Gagarin on the fulfillment of the state defense order in 2016, the press-service management and department information.

Borisov inspected the plant production capacity and familiar with the manufacturing process fighter Su-35S. The deputy head of the Ministry of Defence showed the assembly plant and the manufacturing process Sukhoi PAK FA (PAK FA)."Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation plant - a leading aircraft manufacturer of frontline aviation We checked the performance of the plant state order in 2016 and are very pleased with the progress of this work at the moment almost all the aircraft are in final assembly shop and it gives us confidence that the... until November 25, all plans GOZ-2016 will be fulfilled ", - the press-service Borisov words.In 2015, he was awarded the contract for the modernization of four Su-27, which will be delivered to the Ministry of Defense in 2017. As part of the Sukhoi PAK FA is the realization of an experimental batch of T-50 aircraft, serial contract that will be concluded in 2017 with the delivery dates in 2018.

Su-27 - the Russian multi-purpose highly mobile all-weather fighter-interceptor. Intended for long-range and short-range air combat, interception and destruction of manned and unmanned aircraft over its territory and ensure the actions of naval forces at a distance of 300-400 kilometers from the coastline.T-50 (PAK FA project) - Russia's fifth generation fighter aircraft equipped with a fundamentally new avionics suite and promising radar with a phased antenna array. The first flight took place in 2010 in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the first public display of fighter aircraft - in 2011 at the Aviation and Space Salon MAKS in Zhukovsky near Moscow.

Take it that the 4 Su-27 under modernization are part of the 36 Su-27P being rebuilt to Su-27SM3 standards. First deliveries were to be in 2017.

Also confirming serial production of the T-50 (which will soon need a Su designation) starts in 2017 with deliveries in 2018.