The key reason why some Tibetans still show defiance towards the government is fundamentally an economic one. when young people can't enjoy the same opportunities as their counterparts in other parts of China, the usual turn-out is to look for a spiritual and revolutionary discourse.
Strategically, the Chinese government has got it right. As long as they keep the stick and carrot way of maintaining the stability of Tibetan region, while promoting the overall well-fare, the influence of Tibetan religion will be confined to a cultural sense.

The fact is that the Tibetans in China who show defiance towards the Chinese Government number only a few thousands. They represent less than 1% of the total number of Tibetans in China, who number around 6 million. And the proportion with respect to the total Chinese population is less than 0.0001%. As you know the total population in China is 1.34 billion. However, the western media blows out of proportion each and single incident involving these Tibetans so that the naive readers in the western countries have the impression that the disgruntled Tibetans represent the majority of the population in China. As you might know, more than 75% of the articles published by the western media on China revolve around Tibet and the Tibetans. And when a typical western journalists carries out an interview, he interviews solely the separatists Tibetans and therefore his published article inevitably gives the impression that the great majority of the Chinese population would welcome a separation of Tibet. Since the ordinary reader in the western countries is usually ignorant of the facts in China and too naive to see through the agenda of the journalist, he forms the impression that China is on the verge of disintegration.

The first time I noted his eccentricity was a few years back when he bursted into his Gucci-bag and Prada-shoes Western paying audience announcing he is a true Maoist. He then went on to berate the CCP for their capitalist road. Now he is even wilder than ever.

The Dalai's increasing neurotic state is a cause for international concerns about his mental capability and suicidal tendency. He has issued self-destructive calls to Buddhists which are obviously going to have an impact on impressionable minds bought out to worship him as a God-King. He would need time off to work off his prolonged depression so as to think more rationally and hopefully, finds an opportunity to talk to Hu-Wen team as they leave office this year.

Tibetans have done all they could do to get what they have been wanting for so many years - Autonomy. However desperate the circumstances may have got, immolation is definitely not a measure to fight for ones right.

As the exile flock despair over the slow or no progress toward Greater Tibet Autonomy, I am afraid that the Dalai will be forced to re-introduce more extreme Caste destructive practices like Suttee, Rioting and Killing in Urban areas etc. to highlight his problems to the Western Media.

Truly a sad situation. The immolations do help to keep Tibet on the world's radar screen, but that's about all. Suicide bombing of concentrations of Han would accomplish more and cost no more Tibetan lives.

Gotta take some of the bad guys with ya's, fellas, if you want to accomplish anything.

The US also looked at Chechnya as a chance to weaken Russia (seriously, bordering the newly independent Caucasus countries like Georgia and Azerbaijan). Unfortunately, the Chechens were swayed by Wahhabists from Saudi Arabia (pals of Dubya) and decided to conduct terrorist attacks in Moscow and elsewhere (did I forget to mention the invasion of Dagestan in 1999 by some "Islamic International Peace Brigade"). Thus, it became untenable to support the Chechens, and the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria was crushed and reabsorbed into Russia.

What you are advocating will end w/ the same results, except China would most likely not even have to reabsorb Tibet :)

MrRFox,
You should be the first to plant a bomb in one of the crowded places in China. This will show that you are not a coward and you can both speak and act. I am sure you will succeed; however, you will definitely not live beyond the day after, and your death will not be a loss to any one.

It's the good people of Tibet who are brave, not I. They sacrifice their lives in the struggle for freedom from tyranny, as so many others have throughout history - and as so many of the good people of China have done, are doing and will continue to do. Only right and proper that those who oppress others accept casualties as well - the more, the better.

By immolating themselves, the Tibetan monks are doing the right thing. On the one hand, there is their sacrifices which will certainly be recognised by others on earth and beyond; and, on the other hand, they will be less of a burden to the Dalai Lama who is having much difficulty collecting funds from foreign governments. So it is a gain to all parties: to the taxpayers of the foreign country that is funding the Dalai Lama's activities, to the Dalai Lama and to the Chinese Government. It is certainly a win-win situation and I suggest that this program be increased a hundred fold and to be implemented immediately.

Let's not intentionally misconstrue things. The Tibetans are struggling for independence from Chinese imperialism (which is a very respectable struggle). They are struggling for their religion. But they are NOT struggling for "freedom" in any kind of democratic or liberal sense.

Tibetans have no history of individual freedom or cultural foundations for liberalism. They've lived under theocracy for over a thousand years and the fact that there are Tibetans who are saying they can "die without regrets" if they've only just seen the Dali Lama makes it pretty clear that they want a return of religious tyranny.

When it comes to violent resistance, just look how well that works in Xinjiang.

Tibet is part of China and it is not the Dalai Lama to decide who and how to govern China and its provinces and regions.
Similarly, California is part of the USA and it is not the Natives who can decide who and how to govern California.

We shouldn't look at this in terms of what each side wants, because their desires are in opposition. Let's look from a utilitarian perspective of what is good for the greatest number of people. If Tibet becomes independent, the several million Tibetans will feel the joy being able to revive and preserve their old traditions and be ruled by the Dali Lama once more. If China retains control over Tibet, they can harvest it for natural resources that will directly and indirectly bring material benefits to hundreds of millions of people.

Do you mean that California should not be part of the USA and that it should be given to the Natives? Then you should tell this to the US Government because the Chinese Government will not do it for you.

Actually if Tibet were free, then chances are that China would just exploit it for its natural resources like it is doing with Burma and many African countries. It may cost China a bit more, but the negative effects on the Chinese economy would be minimal.

I think China is holding onto Tibet mainly for a pride thing...

BTW why are you so pro-China-biased? Do you have a Chinese wife or something?

FYI, in case you ask the same question of me in a rebuttal, I am pro-China-biased because I'm 1/2 ethnically Chinese and I'll probably make a living off of the West-China trade for the rest of my life, so it's in my own interets to want to see China's and the West's economies both doing as well as possible.

Also Tibet is kind of a game to me; a real life re-troll of Western trolling. Seeing as how I'm a troll at heart, and my trolling is strangled IRL because I don't want to piss off people IRL, you see why I find the Tibet trolling enjoyable?

I too find it enjoyable, ST, so let's you and me have a troll-to-troll exchange that the Red's ring-kissers can witness. OK?

California and all the other States of the US became part of the US through a "free, fair and open" process of democracy, in which the people of the effected territory expressed their desire to become part of the US. The people of Tibet have never had the opportunity to express their desires in a similar manner on the matter of becoming a part of China. Hardly surprising, as the people of China-proper have never had any opportunity to express their desire in the matter of Red rule over them either.

The assertion by one of the apologists that ethics favor the Han since there are more of them than there are Tibetans is both revealing and ominous. Doesn't bode well for China's neighbors, does it? Numbers are the decisive element, according to that Han view of morality – “might makes right” is the only language the Han appear to respect.

"California and all the other States of the US became part of the US through a "free, fair and open" process of democracy, in which the people of the effected territory expressed their desire to become part of the US."

Guess you never heard of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo? The US, by aiming its gun at the head of the government in Mexico City, bought the southwest (including California) on the cheap. The US was so apt at bargaining back then lol.

China should set up its equivalent of the School of the Americas (now called The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation aka WHINSEC). I am sure it will produce some fine leaders like the exemplar it is modeled after - Manuel Noriega, Hugo Banzer Suarez, Efrain Rios Montt, Manuel Contreras, etc.

I'm Pro-China, but I don't consider myself irrationally biased. Certainly not in the way PL123, Jean Micheal, or that Canadian "WatchingChina" guy is.

I do live and work in China and plan to do business of some kind with China for most of my life; but I could just as easily work elsewhere. I'm a student of philosophy, history, and anthropology. In my eyes, China has the most interesting and glorious history of any nation/civilization on Earth. I love their food, art, philosophy, women, and politics. I also think that most people don't know much of anything about the real China and most of the criticisms of China either come from ignorance, misguided idealism (I believe exploitation is the foundation of human society and I think those who believe the reverse are incredibly naive and detached from the real world), and cultural differences (If you look at most of the policies and behaviors of the government- excluding the blatant corruption which I of course condemn- they are moral from a Confucian perspective). Me being pro-China does not lead me to be anti-anything. I'm a proud westerner, but I am disgusted with America's religious right and its increasing populism. I basically like all of East Asia and Europe. I think Africa is giant joke. I think the proud Indians who consider their country a super power are a joke, but I have no ill will against India. As my screen name states I'm a pluralist. And China has a special place in my heart.

Holding onto Tibet is definitely partly about the Chinese obsession with national unity and holding the Empire together. But I do think it is definitely to their economic and strategic advantage. If Tibet became independent, it would turn into a buffer state between India and China that would likely lean to the south out of justified resentment towards the Chinese imperialists. The Tibetan leaders are obviously not motivated by pragmatism, economics, or a desire to modernize their country. As such, I expect that they would likely squander their wealth of resources and keep most of it in the ground. I have no ill will against the Tibetans, but I'm irritated by the Free Tibeters who couple their love for Tibetans with a hatred for the Han Chinese. I love the Han Chinese and could care less about the Tibetans. They've contributed nothing of value to the world. Even when it comes to spirituality, Chinese Buddhism is far more "useful" for or at least utilizable in the modern world than Tibetan Buddhism.

You need to remember that countries are not individuals. Individuals are individuals, and some countries have more of them than others. If you believe that all individuals have an equal right to happiness, then obviously more happiness (and the possibilities for happiness) need to be directed at a country with more individuals.

I'm a westerner and that is utilitarianism, a western philosophy birthed of Bentham and Mills.

And come on, it is extremely well-established and inarguable that Americans consume far more than their fair share of resources. On a per capita basis, Chinese people do not.

California and the rest of the southwestern USA was annexed from Mexico by the USA beginning with Texas. Just like the USA annexed Puerto Rico and Hawaii. Democracy had nothing to do with the USA's western expansion. Learn your own history.

The original Americans had never a chance "free, fair and open" process of democracy, in which the people of the effected territory expressed their desire to become part of the US. You can see them either in Museum or reserve. Very generous and fair.

MrRFox,
You wrote: "California and all the other States of the US became part of the US through a "free, fair and open" process of democracy, in which the people of the effected territory expressed their desire to become part of the US."
Were the Natives in the US ever given the chance to vote for their independence?
Were the lands of the Natives stolen from them and distributed to the Whites?
Were the Natives murdered by the white people?
Many people call this a genocide? Do you agree with their opinion?
Where are the rights of the Natives?

Anyways, China made an enormous mistake when it formulated its nationalities policy post-1949. Either because of some bone-headed CCP official or the desire of not wanting to increase administrative workload, the CCP decided to lump all the disparate Mongolian, Tibetan, and Uighur groups into mega ethnic groups. I have written about this before, but to simplify, the Uighurs, for example, have historically seen themselves as dweller of a particular oasis first (e.g. Turpanlik, Kasgharlik, Qumulik, etc.) and Uighur second. The Uighur identity was not formulated until the early 20th century w/ the assistance of Ottoman scholars (proto-pan-Turkicists).

Now, Tibetans were a little less fractured, but they were still divided into the 3 groups of U-Tsang (Wei Zang, basically the TAR), Kham (Kang, today's western Sichuan, as well as parts of Qinghai and Yunnan), and Amdo (An Duo, today's Qinghai and part of Gansu). Apparently, the Tibetan varieties spoken by these 3 groups are not even mutually intelligible (sort of like Mandarin vs. Cantonese vs. Hokkien/Minnan). Politically, DL and co. only controlled U-Tsang. Kham was controlled by local kings and chieftains, like the King of Muli, while Amdo was controlled by first, the Kokonor Mongols (branch of Oirat Mongols from today's northern Xinjiang) then by the Five Ma family (famous generals who fought for KMT and actually counterattacked the 13th DL's invasion from U-Tsang into Qinghai back in the 30s). Thus, it was extremely short-sighted for the CCP to merge these groups into one mega classification, since what they did was create a modern, Westphalian national identity from where there was none. Heck, they even merged part of Kham (Chamdo region) which the DL did not control into U-Tsang to form the TAR.

A further example of how complex the ethnic situation was - the present DL was actually born in Takster, a Tibetan village in Amdo. According to his own autobiography, his family did not speak a lick of Tibetan of any kind. Instead, they spoke some variant of Mandarin Chinese common to the area, which is around Xining. DL did not learn to speak Tibetan until he was selected as the 14th and taken to Lhasa for education. Of course, TGIE would not advertise this, even though DL himself admits it.

Just another example of why the Soviet model (Stalin's child) does not and will not ever work.

Note: When I say control, I mean temporal control. The DL certainly had spiritual influence among Gelug followers in Kham and Amdo - it is just that he did not govern them as well.

Note 2: Just giving my thoughts here about the nationalities policy of PRC. I am not arguing for or against Beijing or Dharamsala in this post.

I also saw a post on some forum (history I believe) by a Tibetan youth. I can't vouch for its veracity, but basically, he said how his family, who are Khampas living in Nyingchi right across from Arunachel Pradesh, voluntarily helped the PLA w/ supply lines in its 1962 war against India. He claimed that they were motivated to do this because they wanted to take Tawang and its monastery back from Indian control, since one of the DL's was born there. Thus, they were very disappointed when the PLA pulled back to the McMahon Line despite capturing Tawang and other parts of AP (it wasn't called that back then).

Apparently, his family was even more shocked by how Tibetan Khampas flocked through their region from Sichuan right before the 2008 Lhasa riot en route to the city. They also heard that some of their neighbors' children joined in, and ended up in big trouble, and how saddened his father was over the incident.

Thus, Tibet is not a one-dimensional place. Even exiled Tibetans can't speak for the 6 million Tibetans living in Tibet and surrounding regions. Heck, even a few monks burning themselves to death in Sichuan can't do that. Only Tibetans still in China, from all walks of life and all the regions, can do that, but unfortunately, because of the censorship, we aren't able to hear those voices

Also want to add one more thing - Nyingchi, the place I mentioned in my last post, is also home to the Monbas and Lhobas, the former adopting some aspects of Tibetan culture but retaining many of their own customs and languages, while the latter were looked down upon by the Tibetans and treated like their version of untouchables. Thus, even the TAR is not 100% Tibetan.

In contrast to CCP's indiscriminate merging of peoples into mega groups, the KMT and even USSR conducted much wiser policies. For example, the KMT divides the aboriginal groups in Taiwan into groups based on their own tribal affiliations (PRC, by contrast, puts them all into Gaoshan category). USSR, rather than PRC's merging of Tsahars, Khorchins, etc. into Mongol, separates their Mongol groups. For example, Buryats and Kalmyks, though both speaking Central Mongolic languages and sharing many characteristics in culture, are in separate groups. As a result, Buryats do not even identify themselves w/ their ethnic relatives in Mongolia or Inner Mongolia, but sees themselves as belonging to their own distinct Buryat identity as well as loyal Russian citizens.

Too bad for China though - it is simply 60 years too late to reverse anything.

I agree. But the policy is OK under Mao who really believe in a Chinese family of nations under China's historical borders. And, no foreigners will dare to trifle around with Mao. The current leadership is very weak when dealing with the devils.

Most Chinese, even if they live in the West, are very defensive and childishly sensitive about criticism of their "motherland". Loyalty to the "Han Civilization" seems to override even the loyalty to the country where they hold their citizenship. They also typically assume that all other non-Western countries would automatically be pro-Chinese and anti-US. No one, let alone primitive Burmese like me, is allowed to criticise the "Mandate of Heaven" in achieving the "Great Economic Leapfrog Forward", come hell or high water, smog or sandstorms, self-immolating Tibetans or bursting water-melons.
Most Chinese (including those living in the West) believe that China is engaging in an epic struggle against the West for global supremacy. The rest of the world is of course, just populated by "underdeveloped and uncultured barbarians" but useful for natural resources (such as caterpillar fungus?). Ethnocentricity combined with such fervour and righteousness is scary, especially coming from such a large nation.

I agree, but if you know about the sort of racism and discrimination faced by Chinese and other Asians in North America, Europe and other countries dominated by Europeans and their progeny, you can understand why. Just look at the recent racist headlines and snide comments about Jeremy Lin (though I am glad outlets like ESPN moved very quickly to rectify these).

At least you are making a reasonable response to my comment.
Racism is definitely not just a problem of Whites against Chinese. Anti-semitism, for example, was quite prevalent in many parts of the world for the last 100 years. In fact, as someone born in Burma, I am quite aware that racism is multi-layered in most Asian countries and is based on many aspects, such as skin colour, culture, money, religion etc. I have lived in the West for quite some time now (longer than Jeremy Lin) and although things are not optimal, most Western countries (even Germany!) have made serious attempts by establishing anti-discriminatory laws (and even affirmative action) to accommodate and assimilate citizens and immigrants from very diverse racial and religious backgrounds (not just for Chinese Harvard graduates). I believe that the US and the West has been very successful during the last 40 years or so, in making the world a "global village", which now includes China (thanks to Nixon and Kissinger!) and perhaps even Burma soon (thanks to Aung San Suu Kyi?) Maybe some "white supremacists" might not like what they see is happening to the world, but in my opinion, diversity, inclusiveness, tolerance, freedom of speech and expression, justice, human rights, civil liberties, transparency of both the political and economic processes are the main strength of Western democratic societies and judging from the large number of bright young Chinese students who are studying (or vying for a spot) at the top Universities in the West (even Jinping Xi's daughter is at Harvard, no?), most rational and intellectual Chinese must admit that the way China is governed and the way China views and exploits other poorer Asian countries or even their own ethnic minority groups is full of hypocrisy, ehtnocenricity and self-aggrandisement (regardless of the success or failure of the "Great Economic Leapfrog Forward").
If China would become a more inclusive society and base their politics less on materialism and greed, and perhaps adopt the values that I described above not just as Western values but "Universal Human Values", the world would be a better place. China will be judged by the rest of the world on its ethical values, moral generosity and humanitarian achievements, not on its GDP growth!

Agree w/ what you said. Only disagree that it is white supremacists who are racist. I think most people are innately racist (I may even include myself) - it is human nature. It is just that they don't act it out, but they do betray their true sentiments via certain actions (for example, white cop giving warnings to most white drivers, but mostly tickets to black ones etc.).

The problem is not criticism, but rather obsessive unilateral criticism coming from a Burmese guy who obviously holds a grudge against Chinese people.

You manage to make multiple China "criticisms" in every China article, but almost never do you criticize anyone else, which suggest that you have a very personal and very strong grudge against China, and may even make you a racist.

But yes Burma is indeed populated by "underdeveloped and uncultured barbarians" and should be exploited for their natural resources and work as slave labors because the Burmese literally bring nothing else to the world.

Thank you for the infomation. I thought this guy disguised
as a harmless Burmese refugee working for some anti-China
NGOs in Canada. I have changed my mind since. He is more
than dangerous. He is insidious in that he is trying to stir
up hatred against the overseas ethnic Chinese in their adopted
countries. Be aware he is really a devil.

I do not think there is any mess to clean. The western media is building up an imaginary mess for the western readers to swallow. If some Tibetan monks and nuns wish to leave China for Dharamsala, I do not any problem for China. What is a few million people in a country of more than one billion people? And if some of them would like to kill themselves, I do not see any problem, too, except to the western media and the readers of the western media.

As usual you understand nothing. Suicide is one and genocide is another. When someone kills himself, it is called a suicide. Looks like you are stll a teenager. Never mind you still have a long way to go though it seems it will be an uphill battle all the way.

I doubt anyone on this board is a wumao agent, but with all of the accusations that Free-Tibeters throw out sometimes it gets me thinking. If anyone on this board are Wumao's, it would be you and Jean Micheal.

Obviously you have never been to Tibet. Chinese military is killing and torturing Tibetans!!! Why can't you get that through your head? Tibetans cannot leave for India without risking being shot - again by your compatriots, the Chinese military - or losing limbs from frostbite. You are just spouting hate-filled opinions. Your time will come my friend.

It is clear you are very stupid. If the terrorists want to go to Dharamsala and elsewhere, they are welcome to do so because each terrorist who goes away means less headache for the Chinese government. Indeed if all the terrorists could leave China, the country will be more peaceful. Similarly, if the terrorists could BBQ themselves to the last, it would be a gift to all the Chinese. By the way, you are also welcome to BBQ yourself. But stop speaking like a child. You are making a fool of yourself. You don't even know the history of your country and the atrocities it commits.

When Jim Jones brainwashed his hundreds of Christian followers to commit mass suicide in Guyana by drinking poison laced KoolAids, the world began to realize that religious leaders should not turn their teaching into brainwashing anymore.

Today, while these young monks burned themselves to death in vain (Heavens, monk Lobsang Phuntsog, was only 20-year-old), they took Dalai Lama’s brainwashing and some said instigation so wastefully to douche off their young budding lives, just like the way young suicide bombers were led to believe their teachers or handlers.

But even Banyan should know better that, no government should submit itself to the intimidation of blackmail by religious violence of self immolation or suicide bombing, and no nation should be held hostage by such cowardly acts of self immolation or suicide bombing trying to publicize some unholy scheming of things, such as in this case, the separation of Xi Zang from China.

China should not be swayed in its policy by any such ruinous Dalai-Lamastic manipulation of young people's minds.

and exactly, dear Banyan, you want to tell me is there any difference between them self immolation monks and suicide bombers?

Actually there is no difference. they are all pitifully innocent and the real culprits were their trainers, masters and dalai-lamas who tricked these young things into killing themselves through unceasing propaganda of hatred and fear.

All these negative posts do not diminish the FACT that the Chinese military, the enforcers of the mother-land, are torturing and killing innocent people. Do not try to justify this, you may someday be on the other side. Your diversionary comments seem to be your own denial of the reality of what is happening.
All the armchair apologists and propagandists have never actually been to the restive areas. You should go and see the truth. Then your observation will carry some weight. Otherwise it's just another goofy opinion that means absolutely nothing.

Yes I have heard of Guantanamo. Very sad, very incorrect. However, it does not diminish one iota from the atrocities happening in the Tibet region or anywhere else atrocities are happening. Do you think what is happening in Tibet is okay because of Guantanamo??

What are the names of the western mining companies in Tibet?? I have seen plenty of Chinese mining companies creating huge pollution and not employing any Tibetans. I have seen Chinese logging companies clear-cutting the forrested areas of southern Tibet while not allowing any Tibetans to cut even a single tree. I have seen the immense pollution caused by Chinese mining companies in Mongolia. What are the names of the western mining companies? I would like to petition them. Thanks. Unfortunately you can't petition any Chinese companies or you will be arrested and re-educated (tortured)for sedition (going against the "Great Leap Forward" policy).

My post is not an "opinion" Troll. Chinese military is killing, torturing and murdering. And I personally am not a "Free Tibet Crowd" but I am willing to stand up against brutes and bullys like you and a few others.

There is a saying that one must clean his house before he crticises the dirt in his neighbour's house. You don't give advice to other people when your house is full of shit. You are simply a shameless character. If at least you stop killing and torturing people around the world, the world would be better.

No. But it's hypocritical for you to point your finger at China while your country committed atrocities and continue to do so. The lattest being the killing of 16 women and childdren in
Afgan. This is the problem with people like you in the West.

I despise any killing and at minimum work and petition my own government to have it stopped. I protest all bullies. In China you cannot do that. So i see your point that you must conform or you, yourself and your family become a victim. However, all your arguments still do not diminish the fact that Chinese military are killing, torturing and enforcing sterilization on Tibetans. They are killing the culture, the language and trying to eliminate a very valuable asset that could belong to and be good for China. My recommendation is that you stop defending the atrocities in print. It is not good for YOU. You become complicit when you do this. If you can't stand up for goodness in the world at least don't vocalize support for murder and torture.

Please realize that i do not ever kill or torture people. I despise any killing and at minimum work and petition my own government to have it stopped. I protest all bullies. In China you cannot do that. So i see your point that you must conform or you, yourself and your family become a victim. However, all your arguments still do not diminish the fact that Chinese military are killing, torturing and enforcing sterilization on Tibetans. They are killing the culture, the language and trying to eliminate a very valuable asset that could belong to and be good for China. My recommendation is that you stop defending the atrocities in print. It is not good for YOU. You become complicit when you do this. If you can't stand up for goodness in the world at least don't vocalize support for murder and torture.

Maybe you must realise also that I, too, am against any form of killing and torturing. When I look at the atrocities committed by the western countries, my stomach goes upside down. Only a few days ago, a state-sponsered invasion of Afghanistan by the US-led coalition, murdered sixteen unarmed Afghans. And before that, for over two weeks, the US soldiers fired several times the unarmed protesters and killed no less than than 30 civilians. So, over a period of three weeks, the US sponsored invasion of Afghanistan has cooly murdered nearly 50 unarmed Afghans.
As you might be aware, the history of the US started with a genocide. Almost all the original inhabitants have been killed in the most atrocious way and all their lands were stolen from them. Now they are living in reserves, that is, in a kind of a prison. Very pitiful! Why don't you fight for their cause? Have the natives in the US ever had the chance to vote for their independence?
Then, there was the shameful slaves trade. Millions of Africans were taken forcefully from their countries by slavers to serve the whites in the US. More than half of them died horribly during their forced voyage to the US and, those who were not killed, suffered even more horribly that they envy those who perished during the voyage.
More recently, the US-led coalition invaded Korea, Vietnam, ASfghanistan and Iraq because they did not share the political philosophies or the dreams of the western countries. And, the US-led coalition killed, murdered, tortured and mutilated millions and millions of people.
The US also sent its assassin to assassinate many politicians in the South American countries. Now, they are assassinated the Iranian scientists.
Even more recently, the US-led coalition bombed Libya and caused the death of 40,000 Libyans, most of them civilians and most of them unarmed, and destroyed billions of dollars of Libyan property.

You know, when you shit in your house, you must not criticise other people's houses. You must first of all clean your house and change your manners. Then, after your house is clean, after you have good manners, you can look at other people's house without any shame.

YOu just don't get it, do you? Killing and torturing is abhorent anywhere - US or China - so don't try to justify it ANYWHERE by saying it's okay because the US did it. Let's try to stop it, or at least don't encourage or defend it which is what you seem to be doing.

What an ironic twist from his dramatic fall from Nobel Prize pedestal idolatry to near obscurity today? The starving Dalai Tigress is now consuming his own fanatic followers cubs to save his Serfdom dream.

What really baffles me is that a lot of westerners talk about Tibet like they really have been there before. If you are really aware of the conditions raised by Dali lama in the negotiation with Beijing, you would know he is adamant that all the Han people must leave Tibeten area which ,according to his opinion, accouts for one quarter of Chinese territory.Ok,let me ask you self-righteous American one question, if one day Indian people tell the US government that all the non-indian people must get out of their territory which they claimed long before the arrival of western immigrants,what should US government do? Right, now I guess, some hypocrite are gonna broach the so-called 'uprising'occurred 5 years ago,seriously? I wasn't there back then,but one of my friend happened to be in Tibet for internship, he borne witness over how the Tibeten mobsters decapitated Han people with machete, how they burned down the shops owned by Han people.Ok,you can call this 'uprising' against communist oppression, but I am wondering what noble name should UK government bestow on the riot in London last year(I was living in london back then,those youngesters did pretty much the same thing the only difference is they did't behead people).I remember PM of the UK described it as unacceptable and despicable.WOW!!!fascinating!!!

Kraken! You are very mistaken about a negotiation point being that Han leave Tibet. Were you in on the negotiations? Foolishness. I don't know why i am responding to this. Have you really been there? Obviously not or you wouldn't be saying these ridiculous things. BAH.

Can you please provide evidence that the Dalai Lama would forcefully expel non-Tibetans from Tibet? I must have missed that part. And anyway, the vast majority of those Chinese in Tibet are all born in Sichuan and other Chinese provinces. They generally never plan to stay indefinitely. What an autonomous Tibetan government would do is control the immigration of Chinese into Tibet, so after the current Han population eventually go back home on their own free will, they would not be replaced.

That's the best you can do for a rebuttal? Come on "Jean Michel", earn your 5 maos! I wouldn't give you more than two for such a poor performance.

If you care to read carefully, I'm not "giving instructions", but merely explaining to Kraken here how the Tibetan Government-in-exile has repeatedly stated they would handle Han immigration under the "true autonomy" they advocate. Not by mass expulsions and ethnic cleansing, but rather through immigration control. A sensible policy, but theirs, not mine.

But then the Tibetans in exile do not own Tibet and they have no say on this matter. Tibet is governed by the Chinese government and the Chinese Government knows better than you or the Tibetans in exile how to govern China and all its provinces and regions.

Grow up little baby. The boundaries of each country are defined and each country is governed by its government. Instead of trying advise the Chinese Government how to govern its country, you would do better to advise your own government how to govern your country.

Yes, that's what all repressive regimes say: "take care of your own problems, and leave us alone to repress how we see fit". Sorry, but that's not going to happen. As long as China keeps oppressing Tibetans and disregarding their rightful claims, it will continue in the spotlight. Tough luck.

Have you heard of the Occupy Movement? They claim they represent 99% of the population in the western countries. Ask them which countries have got oppressive regimes. They know better than you otherwise they would not be camping in the big cities.

Can you please provide evidence that the Dalai Lama would forcefully expel non-Tibetans from Tibet? I must have missed that part. And anyway, the vast majority of those Chinese in Tibet are all born in Sichuan and other Chinese provinces. They generally never plan to stay indefinitely. What an autonomous Tibetan government would do is control the immigration of Chinese into Tibet, so after the current Han population eventually go back home on their own free will, they would not be replaced.
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That is your wet-dream not to let Chinese people migrant to China other province. May be you should go back to the Mars.

It may be easier to explain what "true autonomy" is not: calling a province "autonomous" but then appointing all the government from Beijing, putting only outsiders as top Party officials (the ones with real authority) and making all key decisions from Beijing is NOT autonomy, but actually the opposite of the concept.

Something closer to "autonomy" would be allowing the native inhabitants of Tibet (regardless of their ethnicity) choose their leaders, and that those leaders would have actual decision power over key matters and policies: economy, economy, religious practice, cultural preservation, immigration...

It may be easier to explain what "true autonomy" is not: calling a province "autonomous" but then appointing all the government from Beijing, putting only outsiders as top Party officials (the ones with real authority) and making all key decisions from Beijing is NOT autonomy, but actually the opposite of the concept.

Something closer to "autonomy" would be allowing the native inhabitants of Tibet (regardless of their ethnicity) choose their leaders, and that those leaders would have actual decision power over key matters and policies: economy, economy, religious practice, cultural preservation, immigration...
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I am sorry to tell you this is polity with our Chinese Characteristic.

You mean a election, not autonomy. The slaves leader was gone for good many many years ago to the west and now he is doing more harm to his own people. :D

No, PL, I mean autonomy. Elections are just part of it. If all decisions are taken in Beijing, that can't possibly be "autonomy", with or without "Chinese characteristics". The CCP just likes to add that sobriquet to anything they like and then offer just more of the same old authoritarianism.

To be autonomous, key decisions should be taken in Tibet by Tibetans. That does not happen today in the "Tibetan Autonomous Region".

Froy,
You have great but rather naive ideas. I also believe that the Natives in the US (who incidentally are the true owners of the US) should be given autonomy. They should be given the chance to vote for their independence and if the majority of the Natives so decide in favour of independence, they should be given either the state of Texas or the state of New York. Why don't you propose this to the US government. Why plague the Chinese Government with your stupid ideas.
You seem to criticise China a lot but you remains blind to what is going on in the western countries. You spoke of border controls in China as if there are no border controls in the western countries. As I once told you, the border controls in the US are more stringent and for some people who have to submit to such controls, more humiliating. Some people have to undress themselves completely to satisfy the immigration officers. Can you imagine yourself stripping in front of strangers and having yourself examined throughly? Don't just criticise China for the sake of criticising but keep your eyes open to what is happening in other countries.

see，you're exactly the kind of westerner I am talking about.As a Han people who spent my childhood in Qinghai, I am sure I know way much more than you.Ok getting back to the expulsion of Han people,here is the link,http://news.ifeng.com/mainland/detail_2010_12/10/3441979_0.shtml.In 1987,Dalai said:'For the Tibetans to survive as a people,it is imperative that the population transfer is stopped and Chinese settlers return to China'.In 2009,when he was receiving the interview of German media,he said:'we can't accept that non-Tibetan outnumbers Tibetan.And judging from the atrocity committed by Tibetan mobster 5 years,instead of condemning the violence,sending condolescence to victims,some shameless western media were even barefaced enough to label it as peaceful uprising.I do not want to argue u as well as persuade u to accept my view,I just hope,when it comes to Tibet and China,some western media and people could get rid of the prism and stereotype and be objective

Tibet is not part of China. By repeating that erronious assumption you have made it a reality in your own head. Tibet actually is much bigger than the maps and at one time ruled China! Should we say that China is part of Tibet? And obviously China does NOT know how to rule outside the greater Han area. The evidence is all the trouble, the re-education policy, torture, murder, news black-outs, military police invading innocent peoples homes and temples, "the 9 must-haves", fear mongering, Uighar uprisings, Tibetan uprisings, etc., etc., etc.. Sure... china knows exactly how to best govern these areas.

The recipe provided for the sauce of self sacrifice given to the various groups of useful idiots globally is the same, be it Tibetans, Uighurs or the LIFG'ers out of Libya that were controlled by "Betrayus" that ran suicide missions against his own troops in Iraq.

And what is a credible US authored account of those useful idiots? Those participating in the imperialist derring do exercises always speak best for themselves and often make for the only trustworthy disclosures and sources.

Plainly, the contemproary ill informed mass of liberal neo-Plebians are co-signatories in the western imperial terrorism partaking of the same project to exterminate all culture other than that of godless crony elite led white liberalism.

Whatever your thoughts on the Dalai Llama -= He has already given up his flesh and his life to the Tibetans.
Burning one self is for ordinary people - The Dalai Llama is looked upon for Spiritual help by most Tibetans, includine the provinces that used to be Tibet.

His sacrifice has been a lot more severe - He has travelled the world to make awareness. He has never married and never had a family - things that we ordinary Humans long for.
The ultimate sacrifice is giving up his powers to a younger generation. This is better then what Mao did.
I think that his sacrifice is more supreme then that of the ordinary Monks.

At the end of the day - would you rather have Buddhists or Muslims rebelling against you?