not as a trade of course. but this whole senerio with wilfork is starting to remind me of the asante situation. i think that reiss's prediction that the pats get him to play out the final year of his contract by promising not to franchise him sounds like it may happen. then he's gone. and so is seymour most likely, unless he signs a hometown discount. either way, the pats will have money to spend. and it looks like peppers will be stuck in carolina for another year, but they will have to promise not to franchise him next year too. so would the pats use that cap space on him? he will be tempting after we see how horrible our pass rush is going to be this year. if brace shows something as a back up this year i think this could be a real possibility. there will be a few other top OLBs due to be free agents as well, including DWare, merriman, lofa tatupu, and a few others. most will probably get extended or franchised but someone else of quality will be available. so would you guys rather see one of those guys plus brace, or hang on to wilfork at $10 mil? i love the guy but i am concerned about his long term ability to stay on the field as he gets fatter and fatter....

i agree with you texas, i would rather keep vince too. and having him rotate with brace should help keep him fresh, especially as he gets older. plus, as hard as it is to find a pass rusher, a pure 3-4 nose who can really handle 2 gaps is even harder to find. but i just am really concerned about how this contract issue is playing out. i really hope they don't let him walk after this season, but based on past history it wouldn't really surprise me.

I have zero desire for Peppers. Wilfork on the other hand is the centerpiece of our D. We need a strong NT. We had tried to live without one before and our Run D was horrible. You will never see tremendous stats for a NT, but the game changes when u have a great one like we do.

What's the nose tackle crop looking like for the 2010 draft? If we're going to go with a tandem, I think we could get away with two players inferior to Wilfork, and spend the 10 million elsewhere, like middle and outside linebacker.

A good run D starts w/ NT. Unless the Patriots can find someone to occupy two bodies to clog up the middle....then they'd better sign the man. The last thing the Patriots need is a combination of a crappy secondary AND the inability to stop the run.

A good run D starts w/ NT. Unless the Patriots can find someone to occupy two bodies to clog up the middle....then they'd better sign the man. The last thing the Patriots need is a combination of a crappy secondary AND the inability to stop the run.Posted by BubbaInHawaii

If Bill B really likes what he sees in Brace, than I would do this the second I realize Wilfork has priced himself out of my plans. Brace and Mike Wright can hold it down if Brace is ready to start. Bill B said Wilfork is the best pure nose tackle he has ever coached, I'm sure he will do everything possible to retain him, but if he can't Peppers would make us downright scary on defense.

not as a trade of course. but this whole senerio with wilfork is starting to remind me of the asante situation. i think that reiss's prediction that the pats get him to play out the final year of his contract by promising not to franchise him sounds like it may happen. then he's gone. and so is seymour most likely, unless he signs a hometown discount. either way, the pats will have money to spend. and it looks like peppers will be stuck in carolina for another year, but they will have to promise not to franchise him next year too. so would the pats use that cap space on him? he will be tempting after we see how horrible our pass rush is going to be this year. if brace shows something as a back up this year i think this could be a real possibility. there will be a few other top OLBs due to be free agents as well, including DWare, merriman, lofa tatupu, and a few others. most will probably get extended or franchised but someone else of quality will be available. so would you guys rather see one of those guys plus brace, or hang on to wilfork at $10 mil? i love the guy but i am concerned about his long term ability to stay on the field as he gets fatter and fatter....Posted by artielang

I wouldn't trade Wilfork for ANYONE!!!!Seriously, not anyone. His position is so important in the 3-4 and there are only two other guys who can really do it, IMHO. Hampton and Williams, who are both older than Wilfork.

If you got 12 sacks out of a slow white guy like Vrabel, you can get 10 out of just about anyone if they have experience in the system, stay injury free and are reasonably athletic.

I appreciate all the loyalty being provided to the "VW BUS", however, I'll offer these 3 words that haunt every team in the NFL, "WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY". These words terrify more GM's and owners than ACL tears. They cause them to do crazy, unthinkable things. The Pat's are in one of those "vortexs" as we converse. What hurt us more than anything last year was "defensive 3rd down conversions". Not enough pressure on the QB left our weak but servicable secondary vulnerable. IF and that's a big IF, Brace and Wright can hold down the middle and give the inside LB's a chance to react, then letting the "VW" go for Peppers is a good answer for what ails the Pat's defense. With the new blood transfusion BB gave the secondary, adding some spice on the outside or roaming all over the place like LT, perhaps this could be the final piece to the championship puzzle...

Wilfork for Peppers? Not a Chance! However, I would consider Seymour for Peppers. That would make a lot more sense. But with all do respect to Seymour, I think he will be cut for salary cap purposes. Besides, Seymour's production is not what it used to be and he sure disappeared in a lot of games last season! This will free up money to sign Wilfork to an extension. Just my opinion.

Not to mention being fat is a plus for a nose tackle, Ted Washington was a beast for years and he was simply a fat man that couldnt be moved off the line. Wilfork needs to be resigned. And if we can get Seymore i say we sign him too. Letting these kind of homegrown players go is just bad for the team.

IF and that's a big IF, Brace and Wright can hold down the middle and give the inside LB's a chance to react, then letting the "VW" go for Peppers is a good answer for what ails the Pat's defense.

Too big of an "if", IMO. Brace is a rookie, and chances are he will need some grooming. He definitely will not be up to VW's standard! Peppers has two drawbacks. One, he has always played DE in a 4-3 defense. No matter how good the guy may be it will take a bit for him to adjust to a 3-4 OLB position. Two, he has a HUGE contract, and at 29 he's unlikely to sign for a "discount". I agree with the poster who said Peppers for Seymour would be a more realistic scenario. Although Seymour seems to be back to form after a couple injury plagued seasons. Just because he doesn't have huge stats doesn't mean he's not doing his job. If Wilfork and Seymour can tie up three to four blockers that's a huge advantage for Warren and the LBs. Vince has already stated he wishes to remain in Foxboro, so I'm assuming he won't be asking for Haynesworth (or Peppers) type money. They have addressed the secondary (and to a lesser extent the LBs). If you look at the game films you'll see they only needed to be able to cover for another second, and there would have been a lot more sacks. I just think it's insane to get rid of VW unless he proves to be unsignable. And as much as I like Peppers, I cannot see them paying him the price he's getting in Carolina (or anywhere close to it). Nor do I think it's wise to trade any of our best guys for him. I think they need to work on the LBs first, bring Brace along, and hope the secondary improves. The D-line is the strongest part of this defense, I can't see them messing with it too much.

An Elite nose tackle in his prime is better than an aging elite pass rusher playing a new position. I agree with 1967patsfan that I would rather see a Seymour - Peppers switch. Seymour will defintely be out to cash in huge and I don't see him resigning.

1. Seymour will not be cut this year. It's a contract year for him- he's going to go all out to prove himself- not for the Patriots, but for his next team whoever that may be.

2. Can we just let the Pepper's talk go away? What is it with this guy? Yes he's usually great in the 4-3, but he's not exactly young, he's going to have to learn a new pposition in the 3-4 and he's going to want alot of cash to do it. The ONLY way I see us going for him is if we switch to a base 4-3.

3. Big Vince... He's already said he will play this year without issue. I pray we sign him, but wouldn't be surprised if he plays to let his franchise tag option removed for next year. Is Brace the answer? Nobody knows yet. But if they stay in a 3-4 base, the Pats better find an answer this year if they plan on letting VW go.

Does anybody think we're going to switch to a base 4-3 over this year? We can play it already, but have spent most of our time in the 3-4. It wouldn't surprise me if they do a 50/50 split over this season and then go mostly 4-3 next year. Good 3-4 LBers and NT's are extremely hard to find now that more teams are playing the 3-4, driving their prices up. I like the 3-4 better and I think under BB we'll always have some of both. But would it actually surprise anyone that BB throws another curve ball to thre rest of the AFC East?

Sounds nice in theory, however, we don't yet know if Brace is the long-term answer at the NT, if Peppers can be a 3-4 OLB, or how much cap space (HUGE) the Pats would need to sign Peppers. And besides Wilfork is one of the best 3-4 NTs in the game. You simply cannot afford to pay Mankins, Fork, Seymour and Peppers (not to mention Bodden might want a large contract if he has a career year). I know with Peppers the whole world would fear the Pats defense, but I just don't think its reasonable at this time. The Pats have 3 2nd rounders in the 2010 draft ; any one of which could be used to draft a 3-4 OLB at considerably less cost than Peppers.

Wilfork for Peppers? Not a Chance! However, I would consider Seymour for Peppers. That would make a lot more sense. But with all do respect to Seymour, I think he will be cut for salary cap purposes. Besides, Seymour's production is not what it used to be and he sure disappeared in a lot of games last season! This will free up money to sign Wilfork to an extension. Just my opinion. Posted by 1967patsfan

It sounds easy to say that the Pats could just switch to a 4-3 because of the numbers, but the linemen they have are much better suited to the 3-4 than the 4-3. Your DL in a 4-3 would be Wilfork, Seymour, Warren, and Woods, Crable, or Thomas. You would still have the same players on the field, just lined up a little differently and not put in the best positions. For example either Seymour or Warren would be expected to be an edge pass rusher, neither of whom is suited for the job. Switching to a 4-3 with this defense makes very little sense and really does not solve what people are considering the problem of not having enough LB's. If people really think that a defensive front of Sey, Wilfork, Brace, and Warren would work, then where would the pass rush come from. Not that some of those guys can't rush the passer, its just that Sey and Warren aren't suited to do it from the outside, like a Freeney, Peppers, etc. I think BB likes the 3-4, always has, and will continue to use it.

Also just want to chime in on Seymour. I think that he is vastly underrated. He doesn't put up huge numbers, but check the stats of 3-4 de's. First off none of them put up stats, and Seymour's crush them. He had a couple of injury plagued years, no doubt, but he is a superstar player when he is healthy. It is no coincidence that the Pats won their first superbowl when he joined the team.