There's a whole lot of underoverestimating going on here, and of course she's not been acting like Kimiko, and certainly Piro is still acting the same way that's made everyone else give up in some degree of disgust. Most recently Megumi with her go have tea with your body pillow you're not going to touch. And it's almost so far going that way with the not making a decision.

Here's to hoping Kimiko continues to not be insulted by his behavior, and that there's some choosing going on next, some ending of the let everyone else make all the decisions of what to do when.

Here's to hoping Kimiko continues to not be insulted by his behavior, and that there's some choosing going on next, some ending of the let everyone else make all the decisions of what to do when.

Indeed, the easiest progression here is just to ignore Piro's clueless (or confused) behaviour and remind him not so gently to pay attention to what's in front (and on top) of him.

--------------------'The secret of lesbian porn is the self-insertion fantasy, the feeling of "You know, the right dick could turn those clam-licking hotties into hot wet sex fiends... and I am that brave dick." Keep that in mind' - Dom

Regarding 1358, I think you're misinterpreting things. Mugi knows Miho's story, and how Miho always ends up dead and alone before she can find love. She's seen it too; it's implied with Mugi and Kenji that this isn't their first time through Miho's story cycle. Mugi knows that the story can't be changed, they can only try to nudge it in minor ways. So she *knows* that Miho can't be in love with Piro because that would be impossible per the inevitable fate of the Miho's story.

Yuki therefore comes across to Mugi as someone who has no idea what she is talking about. Mugi is the experienced one, and she sees Yuki as living in false hopes that are doomed to be disappointed. Miho herself would have said the same. The story always wins.

Except that it's not going to win this time. Yuki is right -- Piro and Miho do love each other. Miho doesn't *have* to die -- Piro did CPR and got her a pacemaker. As Kenji said, this time is different [1227]. The real Miho has loved before [1402], and the real Miho is in love again, this time with Piro.

In the end Mugi saying that can't be in love with Piro is almost the same as people sayign the Cubs can't win the World Series. It sure seems like an iron law of nature that it can never happen -- until it actually does.

Regarding 1216, that's Piro trying to convince himself. There is a tendency to want things to be clear-cut. Piro either loves Miho and therefore wants to get back together with her, or he does not love her and therefore should go with Kimiko. But things are more complex than that here. Piro loves her, but she also hurt him very badly 2 years ago, and he still doesn't really understand why. He understood even less when he was talking to Kimiko in that comic.

I share same or similar understanding - real world is hardly binary; if it was, we wouldn't need all the different bigger data types...

SO right now, Piro can't even contemplate being in love with Miho again. And she can see it... She probably can also more-or-less understand why it is that way; Is there a chance he could love her ever again ? When he's afraid of being hurt again, even when an actress is channeling her ? She doesn't know... we don't know... We can not know, because of the way we came to know them...

I feel kind of a jerk criticizing a five year old post. But for what it's worth a) I am interested in the ideas involved, not intending anything against the author (it's certainly an extremely well-written post) and b) I will confine myself to what was available in-comic at the time of that post (e.g won't discuss 1358 or the bathhouse scene).

The discussion up to and including 1216 I agree with completely. Immediately after that, under 1217, comes the statement:

[Piro] is still in love with her, Kimiko can see it and Yuki can be absolutely sure, she is a Magical girl and that’s part of her power.

This is stated without transition or supporting argument. Kimiko certainly looks tender and concerned, but from that comic to the present has said nothing to Piro on the subject; the closest she has come to saying anything about it with Miho is "What about what happens to you in his story?" which can hardly be called unambiguous. It's a safe bet she wants P+M to at least talk, to hash out and hopefully recover from the disastrous breakup they went through, but beyond that it gets very speculative very quickly. While it is possible she is thinking she has given up on him, that he and Miho still love each other, that they should get back together asap, and that in the meantime she is gonna keep snogging the stuffing out of him (? i don't get that part if the other claims about her thinking are true...), there is nowhere near enough in-comic evidence to pluck that particular train of thought out of the much larger hypothesis space of things she could be thinking. Assuming we know (again given how little she has said in the past few chapters (not just strips!)) exactly what is going on in that non-trivial headspace of hers seems a stretch to me.

I said in a recent thread much the same about assuming what Yuki's "magical power" in this situation is capable of. Yes, we know she can yank a RAZ instantaneously because we've seen that explicitly. We haven't (unambiguously) seen her successfully using any "love powers" (as opposed to physical ones). We've seen her claim that Yutaka doesn't like her "that way", and that Piro loves Miho (and that Miho loves Piro, which Mugi dismissed, but again I am excluding this from discussion here since it came long after the above post). Do Magical Girls in general have such a power in MegaTokyo (not just in general in anime from which Fred is pulling ideas about them, but specifically in his world)? Hasn't been shown or mentioned. Is Yuki aware that she ought to have such a power? Never mentioned. Is she consciously trying to use such a power? Not that she mentions, she just makes the claims without saying what they're based on. How do we know Yuki is right about P+M? Well, because she's a "Magical Girl". But how do we know Magical Girls have this (reliable) power? Well, because she's "right" about P+M. Carried out that far the argument is circular, but if we don't make the circular argument, then there isn't any other evidence to gauge how accurate her "power" (if she even has one) might be (except arguably for Yutaka, which she's obviously not right about). Maybe she's completely on target here; but the opposite extreme hypothesis is that she doesn't even have such a "power" and is just being a romantic 15-year-old (and is convinced she's right because she's seen similar MG "powers" in the Stability-vetted anime she's been exposed to since childhood). In-comic evidence to narrow down the hypothesis space between these two extremes is limited to non-existent.

(next 2 quotes I rearranged the order, but they are relatively close in the original and nothing I say hinges on the order, it's just for effect really)

Several people on the Megatokyo forums have mentioned that Piro and Miho fight like a married couple, and they do.

Holy crap, where are those refs I made in the last thread... Here we go 706, 1275, 1280. This is not a spat of the "can you PLEASE put your goddamned socks in the LAUNDRY BASKET and not leave them on the damn FLOOR", this is Get. The Fsck. Out. NOW. A "married couple" going through the worst breakup ever, where the neighbors have the local police domestic violence unit on speed-dial. A married couple where the dog ends up poisoned and the kids start mutilating squirrels. A married couple you can take to Nuptia 4 but the devastation will be even more spectacular than when Beth + Jerry were taken there.

Piro knows what the offer really is, and he doesn’t question, or hesitate, or worry about what Kimiko will think, or ask his boss for time off. He just accepts.

It's an excellent scene certainly, a very dramatic example of Piro reining in his emotions (in this case a level of rage a good bit beyond what we'd seen from him previously in-comic) and manning up to do what he thinks needs to be done. But it's precisely that effort he is exerting that makes me suspicious; this isn't a case of him wrestling with initial "mixed feelings" about her return, and then leaping up to say "Sure, whatever you need, you know you can count on me!" This his him arriving at a decision after struggling with it for several strips, the conflict blatantly visible on his face, forcing himself into "Do the Right Thing" mode despite, and not because of, his feelings for her. "Gah, she is probably messing with me yet again, I am so gonna regret this; but she certainly seems upset, and if there is a chance she actually needs help here... ah, dammit, fine."

Yes, he doesn't question, or hesitate. Just as when your ex-wife calls up and tearfully asks you to drive her to chemotherapy, because she has tried everyone else, you pretty much can't question, or hesitate, even if the last time you saw her four years ago you had a knockdown dragout of epic proportions and swore you'd never see each other again.

Last edited by darrin on Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Here's my short version; I just want Piro and Kimiko to do the big "relationship level up" and both enjoy it, with occasional comic-yet-tender moments.

I think the point is that this is a relationship that Piro doesn't ultimately want and that Kimiko has already decided is doomed to failure.

How about we drop the 'relationship' tag and stick with 'get naked and pull the glass shards out of his ass' level

--------------------'The secret of lesbian porn is the self-insertion fantasy, the feeling of "You know, the right dick could turn those clam-licking hotties into hot wet sex fiends... and I am that brave dick." Keep that in mind' - Dom

(although my theory about channeling Miho’s story in the car turned out to be off the mark- I wasn’t sure if Kimiko would go as far as to pounce on Piro that aggressively while in her right mind and without an audience besides Piro himself, but evidently she was <i>really</i> committed to the role)

That regretful face of hers once she broke character, aww. Kimiko is such a caretaker, and she’s provided a way to smooth over any awkwardness at the expense of her own feelings. Hopefully Piro will make it easier on her by passing out from exhaustion while she’s in the shower, so they won’t have to address the issue right away. He already looks like he wants to die.

Also, so many comics in the last several weeks! This is the best! It’s been wonderful to feel like the story is moving along again. Thank you, Fred!

Here's to hoping Kimiko continues to not be insulted by his behavior, and that there's some choosing going on next, some ending of the let everyone else make all the decisions of what to do when.

Indeed, the easiest progression here is just to ignore Piro's clueless (or confused) behaviour and remind him not so gently to pay attention to what's in front (and on top) of him.

But this is SoP for Piro. He's off on his own mental sidetrack, but still taking it in. He will eventually prove it with an on-point remark that shifts up to a new level. Have a look at the bathhouse conversation for an example.

But this is SoP for Piro. He's off on his own mental sidetrack, but still taking it in. He will eventually prove it with an on-point remark that shifts up to a new level. Have a look at the bathhouse conversation for an example.

I hope so, because the bathhouse sequence was probably some of the best character development for him we've seen the entire comic run.

I just get the feeling that he's in a guilt trip loop that he won't be able to get out of and ultimately ruin the entire possible experience.

--------------------'The secret of lesbian porn is the self-insertion fantasy, the feeling of "You know, the right dick could turn those clam-licking hotties into hot wet sex fiends... and I am that brave dick." Keep that in mind' - Dom

On the other hand, I think these last two comics have shown something that is still missing from Piro and Miho's relationship. Yes the smexytimes, but even more so just a sense of fun. Piro and Miho are intimate in other ways, but have not yet got over the hurt and lack of understanding yet, and that makes fun difficult. I hope that will come. Love can be many things, but it kinda sucks without a little joy.

No kidding. There’s enough angst and emo between them to fuel an old school Livejournal account for decades. These two need a chance to breathe and entertain the idea that everything’s going to be okay, but they have a long way to go before that’s even possible.

If, as Junpei said at the ninja compound, Miho’s story is “paused,” perhaps that means she’ll be able to live a normal life until her current body dies for another reason. I have no clue what might happen after the furor of creating this “pause” has died down. Will her story change based on whatever Kimiko and Piro do to create Kotone together? A cool way to demonstrate that would be to show the process of Erika finally completing Moeko’s story.

I don't think so. Remember, it's Piro, he'll figure out a way to c*ck block himself.

He does not have to do anything hardly anything, just let Kimiko take the helm and sail that ship thru the night right into port and slip it into a safe, little birth.
Piro's penchant for inaction is his best ally towards both of them getting much needed satisfaction.

I dunno... thinking back to the glass-encrusted blanket party in the car, along with Kimiko's behavior in the love hotel... none of it makes me think "Miho". Yes, she acted as Miho to "pause the story"; but I think she stopped being "Miho" when the blanket went over them both.

I wonder if Kimiko's energy could just be "Stress relief" from having escaped the horde, while (hopefully) doing Miho a good turn in the process.

Good grief, Piro rejecting Kimiko at this point is easily rational and reasonable, without it having to mean anything more than:

"Way too much has happened recently, I'm filthy and sore, and I just want to take a bath, get some clean clothes, and then talk about what is going on so I know what the heck happened."

Frankly, Kimiko's response would be freaking me out completely. Is she really acting under some sort of mental compulsion or something being forced to act out Miho's fantasies? Or is she actually interested in Piro and using this as cover because she's afraid to be honest with her feelings because she fears Piro will choose Miho over her?

It's totally normal for a guy like Piro to want to put everything on hold and figure out what is going on.

Kimiko is plenty to blame for this too, as she was being very passive aggressive about pushing Piro to reconcile with Miho, and then suddenly acting out a death scene as Miho, and then coming on Piro, and when he doesn't leap into bed with her suddenly claiming it was all part of the Miho act.

Unless there is some weird mental compulsion going on here, then Kimiko is avoiding resolution just as much as Piro is. Piro using passive avoidance, while Kimiko is using active deception.

I mean, I'm of the opinion that it's obvious there is still affection between Miho and Piro, enough that it might even be called love. But it's also clear that it's currently not a healthy love.

Similarly, there is clearly affection between Kimiko and Piro, perhaps even love, but right now it's not a healthy love.

...

Wait...

When Piro and Miho interact, Piro is always passively avoiding resolution while Miho avoids it using active deception...

Holy cow... Kimiko/Piro is following the same pattern as Miho/Piro isn't it...

Actually, this bit of Kimiko throwing herself at Piro is probably the equivalent of when Miho started sending racy photos to Piro...

I wonder if one of the reasons Miho blew the relationship up was because Piro suddenly tried to slow things down at that point...

So, some of the story-tellers say that we never really read the story that the story teller wrote; we're only going to experience the story that we read.

This is one of the pages, should we live so long, we might keep coming back to look at again. We can watch 'Kimiho' have a special experience (maybe about panel 5).

Kimiko, method-actress, has recently met a fan who has convinced her that a similar method of playing roles can affect how a story exists in the world of MegaTokyo. A way of being in stories (or games) that change participants and stories, and MegaTokyo. Almost like magic.

Kimiko (with a heroic assistant of similar skills & motivation), has been experimenting for the last 2 hours or so, to see if this is actually possible. (This is what we have been watching for part of this time, isn't it?)

In panel 3, 'Kimiho' very clearly speaks in the voice of Miho. Miho has just continued asking actor Piro a very relevant question. Actor Piro looks almost to miss his cue: <What?> (Perhaps he is more a better method-player than a method-actor?)

In panel 4, Piro makes a quick recovery (and a good answer) <No->, with a near immediate mutual embrace in panel 5.

The experiment is a success! You can see by their following reactions that they have felt the magic work: Miho asked her question. Piro gave his answer. Kimiko was the bridge.

From panels 6, 7, 8, & 9, it looks like being a story might be a bit more thrilling than even playing a story.

That's an interesting idea I've seen being put forth here: up until now, Kimiko was playing the part of Miho, and that part included sex scenes. Piro could pick up on this on a somewhat subliminal level, and that was why he's been awkwardly trying to derail things. Now that Kimiko is going back to being herself, maybe they can work things out for real.

Awesome, Piro is trapped in a sex dungeon with Kimi-psycho, who's turned up manipulation mode straight to 11. If he has the slightest shred of self-respect he'd tell her off and walk straight out of there, but I'm not getting my hopes up on that. I find it more likely that he'll let her toy with him until it gets awkward and then it'll turn into a sob story or some crap like that. Wah wah my feeewings (not that I give a damn about yours teehee).

I don't think so. Remember, it's Piro, he'll figure out a way to c*ck block himself.

He does not have to do anything hardly anything, just let Kimiko take the helm and sail that ship thru the night right into port and slip it into a safe, little birth.
Piro's penchant for inaction is his best ally towards both of them getting much needed satisfaction.

Piro knocking Kimi up would be a major plot twist, no?

He and Miho kinda already have one (so what, if it is in a game, why would that make it any less real?).

...Kimiko was playing the part of Miho, and that part included sex scenes. Piro could pick up on this on a somewhat subliminal level...

I can only guess...

Piro Jr "alerts" as he subliminally detects possible sex. He slowly turns from side to side like a radar, and every time he's facing Kimiho, a ping (not that kind) sounds and a green blip shows up on a screen in Piro's brain's control room.

Through panel 6, the blip gets brighter (enough to light up Piro's impassive face at the controls) and the ping gets quite loud.
In panel 7, the blip is bright purple and the ping turns to a confused ~squerk~.
In panels 8 and 9, the blip flashes red and the ping becomes a plaintive ~beep?~.

You know how when you do laundry, you have that one sock left that doesn't match any of the others? That's me.
Original forum join date 1 Aug 2008. Slightly less old than dert.

Did I really?
Either way these two need to just hook up. Nothing clears the air like a hot night of passion.

And nothing else massively complicates things.

Have no doubt, this is a major paradigm shift, just not in the way we think.

--------------------'The secret of lesbian porn is the self-insertion fantasy, the feeling of "You know, the right dick could turn those clam-licking hotties into hot wet sex fiends... and I am that brave dick." Keep that in mind' - Dom

--------------------'The secret of lesbian porn is the self-insertion fantasy, the feeling of "You know, the right dick could turn those clam-licking hotties into hot wet sex fiends... and I am that brave dick." Keep that in mind' - Dom