Are Seasoned MGTOW Bored With the Red Pill?

This post is a rough continuation of the last post’s concern that the essence of MGTOW knowledge not be lost. It covers two eroding factors: 1. Addiction to novelty (low ideological/philosophical attention span) causing a slipping away 2. The deep attachment to one’s Weltanschauung—a word only Stardusk could love—causing a refusal to let go or even a refusal to just set aside when in a new environment.

1. and 2. being somewhat polar opposites.

Re: 1. Addiction to Novelty

For the seasoned MGHOW, it would seem the Red Pill has lost its magic. Oh, its lessons are still learned, and life is still lived in accordance with its wisdom. But like the basics of nutrition, exercise, and personal finance, it is now just what a smart man does to live a safe, healthy, successful life; sadly it also adds to those pesky obligations and prohibitions of conduct that are executed to the extent that one’s waxing and waning will-power permit. For the seasoned MGHOW, yes, the Red Pill was intense, the changes difficult, the freedom good – but now it is all familiar, and getting – ever so – more familiar. Now what?

Among seasoned MGTOW the facts of life are now well known. After being one of the great mysteries of the universe, female psychology and behavior is now depressingly easy to read and understand. The responsive strategies now familiar. The hidden forces that control men in their need for woman are now (again) familiar – Mangina and White Knight behavior, male-mother need, female validation, woman and family providing purpose and meaning in life, and so on. The dangers of the legal system, pressures of social norms etc. There is a lot to it, but in the end the basic mechanics of the Matrix are a finite study. Now What?

There are posts on MGTOW video forums that lament that the content is familiar and”boring”. “How many times do we have to go over …” “Why do we have to keep talking about …?”

So among the seasoned it seems there is a yearning to make the Red Pill more interesting, To have the content producers come up with “something new”. Why? Because we all have ADHD.

This is the Internet-Age, that is, the Information-Age on steroids. Admit it, you sometimes worry a little bit about all that time you spend on the Internet. Those of you that have had your Internet go down for a few days felt the withdrawal, didn’t you?

The point is that most of us that know our way around a keyboard are information junkies. The bigger point is that our subconscious demands that this information must be novel information. Mass media news – all news – must be new to be news. We keep going back to our favorite MGTOW content producers, often not to refine or review our basic knowledge of male-female psychology, not to seek insights (notice the lack of the adjective “new”), but rather to find out what is new in MGTOW! New insights (emphasis on “new”) fit the bill, but it is actually the newness, the novelty, the entertainment value that is most (though subconsciously) sought. We are all novelty junkies.

So now there is this invisible force to push MGTOW content to new [fill in positive word: “levels”? “horizons”? “discoveries”? “areas of inquiry” etc.] Right now the discovery curve and the learning curve are the same. Yes, there are still undoubtedly undreamed of discoveries the lie in the future, but they may be slow in coming. We may have to quit expecting stimulating novelty from the MGTOW channels – at least of the form of the mind blowing, deep insights we received in the past.

As long as we identify it as such, MGTOW content can supply just interesting stuff (aka entertainment) to keep us satisfied until the next really cool, honest-to-goodness, bona fide MGTOW discovery or advancement is laid before us. The direction of MGTOW thus far has been outward ever outward – “Going where no man has ever gone before.” Yes,really. The star-nosed mole can still explore the tunnels. Bar Bar’s black and white image at the top of this blog brings to my mind a steel mechanical star-nosed mole feeling its way further and further into the darkness. Who knows what it will encounter?

But there is another direction MGTOW can go, and that is inward. I once heard someone use the term “Kung-Fu” as a verb taking on object. Maybe it is time to “Kung-Fu” MGTOW – take from it’s science and create an art.

Since the stimulating jolt revelations about reality are becoming more spaced out, how has the need for novel material affected MGTOW content? We still get quality content. I think JtO’s laser like precision with language and Diana Davidson’s planned series on applications of Robert Pirsig’s book, Zen and the Art of Motor Cycle Maintenance – as part of MGTOW self examination and introspection – are excellent.

With MGTOW content that does not purport to represent the fundamental nature of MGTOW, of course, anything goes. Have fun.

But there are two types of content or representations of MGTOW that are used to spice up MGTOW, keep it interesting, and make it look progressive. These two never ending sources of intellectual novelty have the power to slowly and fundamentally alter it.

a) extraneous philosophies and -isms

b) extraneous politics

The injection source of both of the above is man’s beloved attachment to his personal Weltanschauung.

This observer has always believed that the number one rule for the healthy growth of MGTOW has been: Never incorporate anything into MGTOW that is not absolutely necessary or essential to it.

-Like Bruce Lee said, “Pare away the unessential.”

I bold the word “extraneous” above to bring up the point that this word has two definitions:

The definition you all probably read into the word as you encountered it above is:

1. not pertinent; irrelevant.

-DictionaryDotCom

But I intend the second definition:

2. introduced or coming from without; not belonging or proper to a thing; external; foreign: e.g.extraneous substances in our water.

-DictionaryDotCom

MGTOW cannot afford extraneous substances in its water—and again the source of the pollution is man’s beloved attachment to his personal Weltanschauung.

Re: 2. MGTOW men — Please leave your Weltanschauung at the door.

Once the basics are assimilated, many MGTOW (some very talented and intelligent MGTOW) naturally see MGTOW through their chosen (often highly honed and sophisticated) lens on life – to the point they start to see that lens as part of the essence of, as part of the definition of MGTOW and start to represent MGTOW to others with thisexpanded definition.

One of the hardest things to let go of is one’s chosen or hard worked for Weltanschauung – World View. (You German philosophy fiends please spare me. Here we will just use very simplified definitions)

Wiki: A world view can include natural philosophy; fundamental, existential, and normative postulates; or themes, values, emotions, and ethics.

DictionaryDotCom:

a comprehensive view or personal philosophy of human life and the universe

Douglas Adams’ Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy:

Life, the Universe and Everything

For those of us that went through a Red-Pill shock or a Red-Pill epiphany and after time are now very familiar with MGTOW, some of us might forget what a fundamental shift in Weltanschauung it was.

There are especially two elements of world-view that new men bring with them when they assume the MGTOW label and identity. I believe these world-views are distorting and diluting MGTOW understanding. They keep appearing in the MGTOW forums as extended representations of MGTOW understanding and now more and more in MGTOW video content. Kind of like MGTOW+.

They are:

1. mature codified politics

2. mature codified philosophies

The dynamics involving philosophy are similar to those of politics, so only politics will be dealt with, here.

As general topics of knowledge; politics and philosophy are as relevant as any other areas of systematized knowledge wherever they intersect with MGTOW, but as World-View that is a different matter. As everyone knows, the influx and growth to MGTOW this last year has been phenomenal. Many new names have appeared in the forums. The quality of the better posts has gained in sophistication. There are many very intelligent and well educated men now taking the MGTOW identity and even taking the MGTOW mantle as MGTOW educators to others. And with their sophistication and their understanding of MGTOW they bring their Weltanschauung.

1. Politics:

A difficult line to draw is between the MGTOW essence/knowledge-base/definition etc. and politics. To state the very obvious, many, many people see life through the lens of politics. It makes up the bulk of television, radio, and Internet news. It is a World-View, a foundation for reality and values for people. Look at young men entering the military. People live and die by politics – in the voting and living part mostly women, in the dying part, mostly men of course.

When a man identifies with MGTOW to the point he wishes to represent it to others, “spread the word” so to speak – thus executing maybe one of the few fundamental agreed upon MGTOW ethics – it will be very difficult to not inject his own World-View into the much more specialized and limited MGTOW realm of concern.

Yes, there are areas where broad political concern and understanding is required. Gynocentric generated politics like Feminism touch everything political. In the takeover war with MRM, of course general politics is going to be relevant and paramount. As has been stated numerous times MRM is a political movement. The same with Tradcon interest in MRM and MGTOW. But what about when we MGTOW are left alone and allowed to go our own way – how much of general politics must we take with us on our journey? How much politics must be included in our message when trying to bring other men to the Red Pill? The dividing line between essential MGTOW politics and politics in general is important.

–CHARMING SIMIAN’S LOVE AFFAIR WITH POLI SCI CREEPS INTO MGTOW VIDEO–

Yes, there is a battle to determine the political nature and political extent of MGTOW philosophy. Think not? Let’s go to Turd Flinging Monkey’s (TFM) video “MGTOW: A Conflict of Visions”. I select TFM’s video not so much because of the political content of the video, but because of its “butthurt” trigger warning:

OK, it is obvious this is just a hedge against the expected and familiar criticism of unnecessarily injecting politics into MGTOW. But here the battle to expand extended political concern, vocabulary, analysis, and point of view into the theory and practice of MGTOW is pointed. Ostensibly, there is a need to take advantage of an ostensibly underutilized “resource” in order to benefit MGTOW knowledge and insight. This is playing with fire. In politics far too often the user becomes the used. Minimalism is the risk management of choice. Science does not go to politics to be enlightened, not even to Political Science.

“A quick heads up regarding this video, this is going to go into politics, by necessity. I am going to be discussing human nature which favors everything from politics, economics, to relationships. I simply can’t ignore politics, and the best sources in regards to this subject are political sources. So again if you are offended by politics and think that politics have no place in any discussion, regarding MGTOW, I invite you to click that little “x” in the upper right hand corner.”

The warning (hedge against expected criticism) in the video really is an argument, in itself, to the effect that more general-politics be admitted to MGTOW debate and philosophy. This of course implies there exists, in the MGTOW community, substantial opposition-opinion concerning what is seen as unnecessary politicization of MGTOW. The implication is accurate.

The characterization of this opposition as “butthurt”, paints the opposition as unthinking Pollyannas throwing a tea-party and forbidding the unseemly male habit of discussing politics in polite society. Those Pollyannas are given a trigger warning lest suffering to their delicate sensibilities be triggered. The image to be projected is that this manly, courageous, though diminutive simian, will have none of this nonsense, from these prissy naysayers. “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead” MGTOW content will have more politics.

In other words, the “butthurt” trigger warning (with its humorous and effective graphic, and use of a fashionable Internet buzzword) is a clever and subtle Ad Hominem to the opposing side, implying lack of emotional control and unthinking emotional bias in those opposing increased politicization of MGTOW.

To tie into the point above about The Basics being boring, and people wanting to spice up MGTOW by fusing it with their favorite Weltanschauung lens. TFM, is obviously well versed in political discourse and ideology. He has the basics of MGTOW down and has rendered them skillfully in his videos. But I suspect politics is a specialty and passion for him. Skilled political analysis is a powerful hammer, but MGTOW philosophy is not a nail for such a hammer. Translation: MGTOW is now the overarching authority on politics relevant to itself. In areas of its concern and expertise, MGTOW analyzes politics, not the other way around – and no that is not an echo chamber.

Though the label existed previously, probably the single greatest act of creation that brought MGTOW into existence as the entity and force it is today was when Bar Bar and Stardusk about the same time made the quantum leap – and it was a quantum leap – that The Beast we had been wrestling with all this time was not feminism. It was the fundamental nature of woman! For the time, that was quite a leap.

Yes, my charming simian, there is an interesting parallel between Sowell’s thesis that systems that fail to see fixed human nature as the real problem fail miserably, and systems or approaches that clearly see fixed human nature as the real problem are far more successful. Yes, these are the respective “Visions” of MRM and MGTOW. You are right. MRM said the institutions were the problem, Bar Bar and Stardusk saw that the nature of woman was the problem.

But to tie into my thesis here. The process above illustrates another problem happening when new MGTOW insist on injecting their Weltanschauung into MGTOW. What is happening over and over is that pet extraneous (definition #2 above) ideologies and philosophies are simply being applied exclusively to men, to create yet another element inor definition of MGTOW philosophy.

e.g.

Take anarcho-individualism which applies to people at large and apply it just to men – voilà! MGTOW

Take rational egoism which applies to people at large and apply it just to men – voilà! MGTOW

Take Objectivism which applies to people at large and apply it just to men – voilà! MGTOW

Take Libertarianism which applies to people at large and apply it just to

men – voilà! MGTOW

Take Thomas Sowell’s book which applies to people at large and apply it to men and women respectively and – voilà! – useful overarching analysis of MGTOW and insights into MGTOW and MRM.

In this writer’s opinion, it is unwise to drag any politics into MGTOW unless there is clear intersection and necessity. Even given the interesting parallel—the Conflict of Visions, the French and American Revolutions, MRM and MGTOW—Thomas Sowell is stupendously great politics and lousy MGTOW.

The World

has been discovered to be lying and corrupt and an illusion (the Matrix) – it feels unreal to say – but if gynocentrism is real, if the illusion is real, if the Matrix is real, as men, if we could have been so wrong about the nature of woman, even as she lived with us, ate at our table, and slept with us – this cannot be an exaggeration.

Pardon the monastic flavor of the principle, but MGTOW need to simplify, focus, and withdraw from The World – not unnecessarily engage it further. Per JtO, MGTOW are The “Abandoners” of The System. Is not the modern term “The System” and the ancient reference to “The World” or “Worldly” the same? General politics is as worldly as one can get. Yes, the individual MGTOW is free to immerse himself in general politics to his heart’s desire – hey run for office – MGTOW for Congress!

But like it or not, systems have compatibilities. There is The System, and then systems within systems. MGTOW is a fragile system. There must be an inside to the temple and an outside to the temple. An inside to the walls of the city and an outside to the walls of the city. An inside to the cell membrane and an outside. Gynocentrism permeates the world.Gynocentrism is The World. The System is gynocentric. What is worldly is gynocentric. To be MGTOW is to shun what is gynocentric because we cannot change it. To be MGTOW is – granted, on a scale – to shun The World and what is “Worldly”. Yes, an analogy, but an analogy not stretched, but rather very close.

To now reverse myself a bit, yes, it works both ways and there are politics that inform MGTOW knowledge. I love Thomas Sowell, he has for decades been a keen knife slicing through the Left’s and the Feminist “War on Reality”. I could write an entire post on Sowell’s brilliant work. But I won’t, because fascinating and effective as it is, and as he is, it would just complicate and dilute the desperately needed vehicle to male freedom that is MGTOW.

TO RECAP AND CONCLUDE

We must not keep making MGTOW more complex or extensive just to keep it novel, interesting, entertaining, or keep a pleasant feeling of progress. There is much yet to explore, but it will likely be slow going, here on out. For most intents and purposes MGTOW Studies, as far as it has gone, is a masterable discipline, and its full breadth eventually becomes familiar. Perhaps it is time to shift from seeing MGTOW as only an expanding science and begin to refine it as an art.

We must not inject what is the entertainment/novelty aspects of MGTOW, or the pluses of MGTOW+, or the extraneous into The Red Pill. That will dilute it. Powerful medicine sufficiently diluted, ceases to be effective medicine.

The most potent and pure Red-Pill we can create and deliver to our fellow man. That isour Pearl of Great Price.

I love Turd Flinging Monkey’s channel. I do consider the way he frames his political side as more natural as it conforms to human nature, a self congratulatory narrative. The state is an extension of human nature, doesn’t matter what type of state it is. Violence and control is part of human nature and animal nature.

But doesn’t MGTOW itself become a politic? If there is a right and a wrong way to characterize MGTOW, then we are automatically dealing with ideological correctness. I think MGTOW should emulate Free Masonry in regards to religion and politics and of course fraternity.

Yes i am for one bored with the “Red Pill” as in those served by Sand Man. Not to take page from the recent controversy, i have tried to look at his videos everyday but, but its hard, his content has gotten really boring and monotonous, even when he has a hot topic. His angle is valuable but he is trying to produce so much content that its gets really watery.

It’s been seeming to me the only reason many mgtow –case in point newbie Turd Flinging Chimpanzee, great fuckin’ channel btw,– aren’t just coming right out in your face with a position that mgtow is a fundamentally anti-left, pro-“small government” political movement is because of the resistance of some older, established mgtow who’ve repeatedly, strongly expressed mgtow is not going to be political, especially conventionally speaking. Mgtow is not beholden to the Left, the Right or whatever.

Maybe I’m wrong, but most “manospherians” are rightwingers or libertarian and they define “red pill” politically and ideologically, and sure as hell the “red pill” for them is anti-liberal, anti-left. Furthermore, the understanding of society and the individual that they tend to express strikes me as antithetical to liberalism, to progressive politics.

I think a more in depth, philosophical exploration of the nature of society, the nature of the self are obviously needed when it comes to defining what mgtow is and is not.

I suspect many mra’s, lots of pua’s, many anti-feminists for sure, would support a return to some kind of traditionalist social structure actually over -or more than they would fight for- a system in which men are required to sacrifice less and women are required to take more responsibility… more legal and social fairness….so for ex. female military conscription, unbiased marriage laws, humane, enlightened views of social ills like domestic violence and rape and laws and university, business policies that aren’t anti-male bullshit. Imagine women are really socially and legally expected to be self sufficient as men. Maybe this is utterly impossible but it’s interesting to consider if men would really want things this way.

Right wing has nothing to do with small government, That is the false narrative the right sells to the voters. Party politics is all just empty platitudes and soundbites, it is a sideshow distract to keep the masses away from getting involved in the political system.

“Going Your Own Way” is inherently simple and transparent … if you don’t mind my extension from Darth Sin’s reference to Buddhism, we’ve got our own Four Noble Truths: “Don’t marry – don’t cohabitate – don’t impregnate – don’t let women run your life!” But it is human nature to try and add to simplicity, especially to add our own world-view and to see it reflected in the system we’re exploring.

It’s revolutionary enough that we are turning aside from gynocentrism, that we wall it out from the system that is MGTOW. That alone is enough to put us in conflict with the world outside the walls. We don’t need extraneous political or philosophical “additives” that add contention between us,

Political and racial issues create unnecessary friction and divisions in MGTOW. I agree with BeijaFlor that the basic core values are all that’s required to improve your life and keep you out of harm’s way. If social change happens as a result fine but I can’t see that happening before I die and I would never trust another woman anyway. For me MGTOW has always been about self preservation.

Understanding in any field is always a good thing. Associating your understanding of one subject with the rejection of gynocentrism that is MGTOW; and deeming it necessary for others to know as you know in order to go their own way will ultimately undermine each man’s ability to walk away. It is on each one of us to avoid this.

Click on AVfM-two clicks away you’ve got crazies like Aurini and Capt. Capitalism whining about SJW’s-and I’ve never even seen anyone self-label as an SJW.

You can’t deny how destructive it is to have a trad-con like Judgy Bitch self-identify as an M(h)RA…

Then you have lunatics like Jack Donovan who “rubs elbows” and who knows what else with White Nationalists…

That whole thing is corrupt beyond fuck…

I want no part of the M(h)RM or the manuresphere…

I can GMOW-just turn off the computer, refuse military service, refuse to work in law enforcement, refuse to put myself on a ship where I might be forced to give up my seat on the lifeboat. Never marry. Earn just the minimum to survive. Quite easy in fact, the path of least resistance actually….

So tell me, in a thousand years, will the insights gained still hold true, or will it be like the notion of a static universe giving way to a perpetually expanding one? And how will those insights fit into a larger picture of the world, one possibly where we have sexbots, artificial wombs, or maybe just the majority of the human race is sterile? Do those insights still hold true?

While I appreciate the desire to avoid extraneous associations, too much of the current mindset feels like dogma, and much of the bickering a hamfisted attempt to establish canon, where men contort themselves to ideas rather than breath life into ideas that serve them.

I fully expect mutations of MGTOW ideas to occur, and for different takes, and even MGTOW feminist in the future. It’s natural that ideas lead to new ones, and some of the old is cast off from the new.

It’s that investigation that is exciting, even if it leads to the absurd or untenable. What comes after MGTOW?

Politics seems to inform groupthink and the picking of which side of the fence to sit. It comes in handy when you’re on the winning side or of the correct party. The dominant party members get to wield authority, but you must go along to get along in this group. Outing others within and without the party proves your loyalty and moves you up. This hasn’t anything to do with left/right. It’s crabs in a bucket. My strategy is to stay out of sight of the authoritarians by keeping a low profile and trying not to feed the beast.

Hey! I know this is somewhat off-topic but I had to ask. Does operating a well-established blog like yours take a lot of work? I am brand new to writing a blog but I do write in my journal daily. I’d like to start a blog so I will be able to share my own experience and thoughts online. Please let me know if you have any suggestions or tips for new aspiring bloggers. Appreciate it!

Great post. I had a similar thought last week that there will be some that expect MGTOW to be more like releases by Apple and less like watching a baby boy grow into a man, and may be disappointed by this. Men going their own way; simple, yet a lifelong journey for those who continue it.