I guess that Dirk must be pretty good because he's leading a Mavs team with no Parrish and/or McHale in the post to a record that outshines anything that that team could manage to pull off in its prime.

Pull your head out of the sand.

Take your mouth of Nowitski's private area. Dallas is not comparable to even the Bad Boys of Motown. You know why? They will NEVER get rings. NEVER. They'd be lucky to string together a 5 game win streak against the teams of the 70s and 80s.

..but yet when Dirk put away the Suns on a last-second jumper it was an afterthought.

...or when he scored 50 on them leading them over Nash, all-star, 6th man of the year, coach of the year & friends in the Conference Finals.

There's a bit of a double standard going on here.

Dirk is easily the more accomplished player. If we are talking about clutch performance and criticism, shouldnt we point out that Nash has never been to the Finals? Has there ever been a two-time MVP without a finals appearance? Has there ever been a three-time MVP without a championship?

So, Nash has been blessed with two all-stars, a coach of the year, a 6th man of the year (Diaw), a future 6th man of the year (Barbosa), and hasnt even made it to the finals? Talk about choking.

oh...homer buddy of ours...

does it make a difference that Nash had 9 new players on the team last year?

or that he didnt have of his all-star PF all F'N year!!

or the year before he didnt have Joe Johnson for about 2 rounds due to that foul on Stackhouse...

But, thats all Nash's fault...he's the only reason why they havent made it to the finals these past 2 years...

And his teams have still won 54+ games in the season...

and you know MVP's of the league have soooo much to do with the playoffs...

I'm just sick and tired of hearing the same rhetoric time and time again. The MVP is a REGULAR SEASON AWARD. That's why there's a Finals MVP. People in general need to stop looking at the fact that Nash is a scrawny 6'0 (at best) point guard as being the reason why he shouldn't be the MVP. Honestly, this is the reason why people don't accept it. Nash doesn't fit the prototypical "MVP" mold, with his look, style....so people think the award is tainted. People CANT BELIEVE that this kid is winning MVPs and making the game look ridiculously easy anytime he steps out on the court. Sorry to EVERYONE that he's not Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Karl Malone, or whoever else you want to throw out there.

And I know what you're saying to yourself;

"Well, he was the same guy in Dallas, why didn't he win MVPs there?" The answer to that is, IT WAS A DIFFERENT SITUATION. D'Antoni took the BASIC Don Nelson premise and upped it by a thousand. Nash didn't have the players necessary for those teams to have the same type of success as D'Antoni's system has had and will continue to have, as long as there's a facilitator like Nash in the game. So, once and for all, can we stop comparing those two situations?

That said, though..

Nash can't take his team to the Finals? Let's see....since he's come to Phoenix, he's taken his team to the Western Conference Finals twice in a row, despite extenuating circumstances in BOTH seasons. Give him what the other teams had, and they most certainly would have done even better.

I'm sick and tired of people acting like basketball (or ANY sport) is a ONE MAN game. This isn't golf, or tennis, or any other individual sport. This is BASKETBALL. One player alone does not take a team to the Finals. It's a team game. Twelve players. So to condemn Nash for not carrying his team to the Finals when they took anything and everything that came to them and responded with tenacity and heart is absolutely ridiculous. Sooner or later, it's going to break down. Playing with SIX GUYS last year in the WCF. Would any other team be able to do this?

I'm not even commenting anymore about Nash deserving MVP this year, because doing so will validate this ridiculous notion that there's even an argument besides Dirk and Nash.

You know, sometimes I wonder to myself why I even go to these great lengths to defend Nash to people everywhere who generally have no concept of what they're saying, then I realize that because of this (and DESPITE the two MVPs)....Nash is still the most underappreciated player in the game

does it make a difference that Nash had 9 new players on the team last year?

or that he didnt have of his all-star PF all F'N year!!

or the year before he didnt have Joe Johnson for about 2 rounds due to that foul on Stackhouse...

But, thats all Nash's fault...he's the only reason why they havent made it to the finals these past 2 years...

And his teams have still won 54+ games in the season...

and you know MVP's of the league have soooo much to do with the playoffs...

If you want to apply a bunch of excuses, that's fine. Just remember that Dirk doesnt get, or want, that same benefit.

Forgive me, but when you start your argument with a bunch of excuses, you have already admitted an inferior position.

Quote:

Nash can't take his team to the Finals? Let's see....since he's come to Phoenix, he's taken his team to the Western Conference Finals twice in a row, despite extenuating circumstances in BOTH seasons. Give him what the other teams had, and they most certainly would have done even better.

Again. Excuses dont count here. Players shouldnt win MVP's based on excuses. Nash hasnt gotten done what Dirk has. Especially this season and over their comparative recent history. The argument should end there.

Quote:

You know, sometimes I wonder to myself why I even go to these great lengths to defend Nash to people everywhere who generally have no concept of what they're saying, then I realize that because of this (and DESPITE the two MVPs)....Nash is still the most underappreciated player in the game

Nash is second only to The Flying Wheelchair as far as promotion goes. Nash and the Suns are an easy favorite of sportswriters everywhere. I have to chuckle a bit when you say that they are underappreciated. Try being a Mavs fan!

Take your mouth of Nowitski's private area. Dallas is not comparable to even the Bad Boys of Motown. You know why? They will NEVER get rings. NEVER. They'd be lucky to string together a 5 game win streak against the teams of the 70s and 80s.

or MAAAAAyybe, if Dirk had the balls that Melo has, people wouldn't think he's such a choke artist.

Winners want the ball at the end of the game.

Losers make excuses about being "tense".

Well, Hulkobronconia, Dirk wasnt making any excuses in that quote. He was talking candidly (as always) with reporters about how players are human just like anyone else and how all great players are nervous too. Dirk doesnt waste time putting up a tough guy facade. He's tough on the floor.

I think it's really kind of funny that fans live in this alternate universe where their favorite players have to lie to them to make them feel like they are good.

Mikki Moore talks as tough as anyone. He should be an all-star by now.

Well, Hulkobronconia, Dirk wasnt making any excuses in that quote. He was talking candidly (as always) with reporters about how players are human just like anyone else and how all great players are nervous too. Dirk doesnt waste time putting up a tough guy facade. He's tough on the floor.

I think it's really kind of funny that fans live in this alternate universe where there favorite players have to lie to them to make them feel like they are good.

Mikki Moore talks as tough as anyone. He should be an all-star by now.

You think you can talk about the heart of an NBA player, and your mancrush Dirk thinks he can speak for "all great players".

un. ****ing. believable.

First off, until I see you rollin out of Melo's crib arm and arm, your rediculous quaffs about character go right out the window.

Secondly.
Umm...if you'll look closely at the quotes posted so helpfully at the beginning of this thread, you'll see that ALL GREAT PLAYERS don't get nervous. The REAL great players get crazy, and do crazy things like make clutch shots.

You're absolutely correct, Dirk is NOT making excuses, he's just letting everyone know that he chokes under pressure. Definitely an easy out when he clanks that next gamewinner as the buzzer sounds.

"it's okay dirk. I knew it was gonna happen. You TOLD me it could happen. You get tense under pressure, and damn those teamates for giving you the chance to prove your MVP like skills. "

As for Dirk being tough on the floor, you keep your bedroom antics behind closed doors.

You think you can talk about the heart of an NBA player, and your mancrush Dirk thinks he can speak for "all great players".

un. ****ing. believable.

First off, until I see you rollin out of Melo's crib arm and arm, your rediculous quaffs about character go right out the window.

Secondly.
Umm...if you'll look closely at the quotes posted so helpfully at the beginning of this thread, you'll see that ALL GREAT PLAYERS don't get nervous. The REAL great players get crazy, and do crazy things like make clutch shots.

You're absolutely correct, Dirk is NOT making excuses, he's just letting everyone know that he chokes under pressure. Definitely an easy out when he clanks that next gamewinner as the buzzer sounds.

"it's okay dirk. I knew it was gonna happen. You TOLD me it could happen. You get tense under pressure, and damn those teamates for giving you the chance to prove your MVP like skills. "

As for Dirk being tough on the floor, you keep your bedroom antics behind closed doors.

It might be a good idea to make an attempt to understand the context of the quote before you go on a baseless rant.

I understood the original quotes perfectly thank you. I simply ranted and raved on your personal twisting of those quotes.

You do a truly horrible job at both sticking up for and putting words into the mouth of, your boyfriend.

What really happened:

Dirk calls the Great ones Liars and admits he isn't a calm shooter in the clutch. And he is pleased as pie in that regard. (that's who I want taking the game winner)

What you see through rose colored glasses made in Germany:
Dirk is soooooo amazing. He can make all these great shots and, why isn't he an MVP? Where are all of those rings that he should have on his fingers? Dammit the whole world is against him because he's just too talented. Those ****ty refs. That stupid canadian. The damn fans and coaches that don't give him his credit. His crappy team. Everyone is against him. He'll never get an MVP. Oh my poor dirky.

that about cover it?

Can't wait to rip on his Dirkness the next time someone utters an undirkish word.

I understood the original quotes perfectly thank you. I simply ranted and raved on your personal twisting of those quotes.

You do a truly horrible job at both sticking up for and putting words into the mouth of, your boyfriend.

What really happened:

Dirk calls the Great ones Liars and admits he isn't a calm shooter in the clutch. And he is pleased as pie in that regard. (that's who I want taking the game winner)
What you see through rose colored glasses made in Germany:
Dirk is soooooo amazing. He can make all these great shots and, why isn't he an MVP? Where are all of those rings that he should have on his fingers? Dammit the whole world is against him because he's just too talented. Those ****ty refs. That stupid canadian. The damn fans and coaches that don't give him his credit. His crappy team. Everyone is against him. He'll never get an MVP. Oh my poor dirky.
that about cover it?
Can't wait to rip on his Dirkness the next time someone utters an undirkish word.
Until then, stay homered.

Oh, by the way Mr. ThatTimeoftheMonthBronconia, I just happened to catch the "Inside the NBA" show on TNT...

Barkley took a whole segment to explain how what Dirk said was true, and how he had seen both Larry Bird and Michael Jordan miss clutch free throws in big playoff games. He said that all NBA players feel that same pressure in those situations.

I didn't even really want to get into this thread, but I will say this: As phenomenal as Dirk is, last year's Finals were really telling, IMO. He had chances late in 2 games, and he couldn't finish. I like the guy, and believe that the Mavs won't be seriously contested (maybe somebody takes them to 6 games max) in the playoffs, but I think Dirk will need to prove the naysayers wrong this year.

I did want to respond to this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rulon Velvet Jones

He makes them at an 87% rate when in "crunch time". When he makes them, no one seems to care. But it's magnified 10x when he misses them.

I can ask - what is the biggest single shot in Dirk's career so far?

I'd say it was the free throw to tie it with the Spurs in Game 7 of last year's playoffs. I seem to recall that one going in.

The problem is, he's missed them on the biggest stages. You're right, I had forgotten about Game 7 myself. That was huge, and he came up big. But the bigger shots came just a week and a half later, when he clanked late FT's in 2 Finals games that could have secured the Mavs a ring.

If Dirk makes those in the Finals, the NBA's biggest stage, the story becomes how in every round Dirk came up huge, as clutch as there is. You ask why nobody remembers the big shots, because they were followed by even bigger misses.

But this will all be moot, because as much as I hate to say it, nobody is dethroning the Mavs this year.