No doubt. One of the winners I saw had all this baby formula (among ridiculously expensive things I have never bought like organic tomatoes) then used a separate transaction to buy their cigs and beer. Shouldn't luxuries like those go bye bye when you have a baby to feed & clothe? Apparently not, because you don't have to pay for the formula yourself. And those types would probably ignore the kid's need's for their own anyway, which is the saddest part.Once I was behind a couple of middle aged ladies with food stamps and I actually walked into the parking lot behind them because I was curious to see what they were driving. It was a late model Caddy. I had nothing in common with them. I was making 15 k/yr, had an old used car and paid my own rent at my apt. Oh, and I didn't buy any steaks either. Just because someone is considered "poor" doesn't mean they deserve breaks. If you take into account that I paid my own way for everything and made 15k, I was likely more poor than they were.

The left doesn't realize how many people are in the situation you were in, Fireball. They have no clue. At one time in the mid 90s I was working four part time jobs to make ends meet. And I'd encounter people like the ones you describe and wonder just how the hell they got away with it.

I think we should tax the poor at a higher rate because they use public services more.

there is a lot more to this argument than just "poor get the services."

i can't find the paper right now, but the three main things I can remember in this country specifically

- Tax breaks for corporations/cuts in business taxes directly effect the poorest parts of a society/city. For example, Atlanta is one of the most "business friendly" cities in the country. Almost all of the taxes came from property, which of course isn't a good way to run things but when it was going well it has the veneer of going well. Now, there are no more than 40 cops on duty at all time inside the perimeter (terrifying), they've begun closing fire stations in poorer parts of town, and MARTA doesn't even run on fridays anymore

- Airport construction can almost never be done without government subsidy, and the airline industry as a hole can't operate successfully without extensive government assistance. these dollars specifically don't go into things like a more egalitarian rail system, or social programs, and air travel almost certainly doesn't help the poor in any way shape or form.

- war almost exclusively benefits the wealthy, and I don't think that needs to be explained.

Yeah but maybe, and this is kinda a long shot but man if it worked, if we taxed the poor to the point that they couldn't afford to live here they would go to Canada and Mexico and we wouldn't have to worry about them anymore.

Think how awesome it would be if we could cancel the whole social safety net because we ran off those who relied on it. One that happened they could cut everyone else's taxes back to a reasonable rate.

- war almost exclusively benefits the wealthy, and I don't think that needs to be explained.

Which is why I don't have a problem with government spending lots of money on the military (although the waste is bullshit). The people who want that extra plane or submarine are, in fact, paying for it.

Which is why I don't have a problem with government spending lots of money on the military (although the waste is bullpoo). The people who want that extra plane or submarine are, in fact, paying for it.

Yeah but maybe, and this is kinda a long shot but man if it worked, if we taxed the poor to the point that they couldn't afford to live here they would go to Canada and Mexico and we wouldn't have to worry about them anymore.

Think how awesome it would be if we could cancel the whole social safety net because we ran off those who relied on it. One that happened they could cut everyone else's taxes back to a reasonable rate.

the thought of all those poor unwed mothers and their kids being herded across the border makes me cackle with glee.

Fair tax on paper is der bomb. Implementation will be like going to the moon a year after Kitty Hawk.

Progressive and consumption tax is possible.
You have to weigh out the unintended consequences of these changes and the winners and losers.

Think about this. States are saying due to the economy they don't have money. Ok. So what are most states sources of revenues? Property taxes. So you have a model that is built on someone doing well enough to buy a car or even better a home. And you get those funds once a year. Hmm. K. Sure.
Because of the mess we are in its forced some lazy freaking beauracrats to fall back in love with innovation. Resourcefulness and being practical. Hurray.

I think a hybrid approach for taxes has to happen. You also have to run pilot programs to avoid a total disruptiong of the tax revenue grid. Think the credit markets freezing up cause issues? Try to upend the system we got to make somebody feel good.

I have said this many times but start local with tax choices. Each tax paying citizen can choose to increase an allocation of funds toward big areas that typically impact the largest segment of society without any political agenda.
Health, infastructure, public protection(cops,firemen etc) and schools.
Each person, if he or she sees fit, can allocate up to X # of dollars to anyone one of those groups. This is not the MAIN source of revenue but if eliminates funding gaps from unforseen shortfalls(see foreclosures which eliminate tax revenue for counties) and builds in a buffer year after year.
Progressive tax. No more food tax for those making under 20k a year as an example. You only focus on areas where the top 1% pay the same as the bottom on basic staples of living. Very archaic and unfair.
Each state bring back yearly inspections. This takes away states making up the difference in them no longer getting this fee with you getting pulled over left and right.
Sin taxes. Again, a typical lazy govt approach and increasing revenue.
Its the easy way out for lame brain morons.
This is radical and will never happen but INsource each states big expenditures like school buses, trucking etc to folks like UPS etc. Major companies insource to UPS all the time to warehouse their products and ship them or do logistical work for them.
It saves time, money and creates jobs here still.
State govts, not all areas but most are so inept at being run it's shameful.
They spend money to do a study on saving money, they the public freaks out and out of fear of not being re elected the politician scraps the proposal of the study to show they have guts only to lose money two times over.