The Unbeaten Run gets up to 10; the Independent is insulting

By Tony Attwood

55% of the play, the most shots (10-6) and the most on target (3-2). We suffered a ludicrously wrongly given goal – and when you hear Sky commentators saying it should not have been allowed on two separate counts, you know the officiating was bad and bent. Especially in a league where according to PGMOL referees hardly make any mistakes at all.

What’s more 7 of those games were won in normal time, one was won in extra time, one was won on penalties, and one drawn.

Of course the anti-Arsenal movement will say it was lucky, we left it late etc, but forget to admit that at least one Everton goal if not both should not have been allowed. And of course forget to admit that like every club that has ever won anything, we had dodgy times in all our successful seasons. We happily sing “We won the league at White Hart Lane” (or at least those of us who know the words sing it) and sweep aside the fact that we actually only drew that match in the Unbeaten season) because of an utterly stupid goal let in at the end.

And because I am now old I can say I still remember the 1970/1 Double season, which opened with, oh what was it, I can’t remember, now do remind me, err… oh yes, a 2-2 draw at Everton (Charlie George and George Graham scored), and was followed by a 0-0 at West Ham. By match six that season we’d won 2, drawn 3 and lost 1. (Sorry I wrote 6 here earlier – my mistake) If the AAA had been around in those days they’d have had Bertie Mee’s head on a plate.

But in the end it is the results across the season that count.

So it wasn’t a 6-1 or 7-0 as we have seen in the not too dim and distant, but we got a draw, and kept the run rumbling along. It was also an early lesson for those players just joining Arsenal in what referees can do to you when you play for Arsenal. They would have been told by their fellow players, but it probably took the seeing of it to convince them. Now they know. With Arsenal you don’t just have to defeat the other team. You have to beat the ref as well.

I was going to say that the press, of course, won’t mention the offsides, but the Guardian gives a grudging half nod with “an Everton goal that could have been disallowed for offside” – “could” mark you, not “should have been disallowed for an earlier foul and an offside that even Sky saw, and the ref should have been removed at once from the pitch and been placed in the bucket of iced water that seems to be all the rage.

Arsenal ran the second half, knowing that they had to take on the officials, and not let any rule bending get them down, and they did – and that was indeed heartening.

It was good to see Alex O-C stepping up and trying a few pot shots. He’s not quite there yet but he’s getting very close indeed. And some of our passing movements looked extraordinarily good, especially considering we had two players back in who were clearly not yet 100% and hadn’t played since going into the after-match party that is winning the World Cup.

Mesut Özil will get better and better, very quickly indeed, and already he is putting in those extraordinary passes that only he can see. They are not all working yet but they will soon.

I see in the papers this morning that (again in the words of the Guardian) “Everton had dominated the game” and yet that doesn’t quite explain the disparity in possession. At least they admit that Giroud, still not back to his best, “could easily have had a second-half hat-trick.”

As it is he has now scored 41 goals for Arsenal – and that apparently is a good reason to sell him (according to the 3% doom and gloomies at any rate). Given that he is playing in a side where other people score goals as well that is not a bad return.

Last season Giroud got 16 league goals in 36 games – fractionally under 1 in 2 (I add that for the sake of the AAA – I know everyone else can see that for themselves). I’d expect that ratio to go up this season. So far he has scored two in four games (including all competitions), and I think we’ll get higher figures as time goes on.

The point about Giroud is that he not only scores but also drags defenders off beam in order to allow Ramsey to get into scoring positions and that’s what we need. When Ozil gets himself fully in gear matters will get better again.

I’ll conclude with a final comment from the Guardian. “Had Giroud been on the field for the whole game, or even if he had found his range a little earlier than the 90th minute, Arsenal might have had all three points. They certainly had the chances, and though they took a battering in the first half, by the end it was Everton who looked the more fragile. That’s another thing you don’t tend to hear every week.”

At least after those earlier comments, they had the decency to admit what all of us (other than the AAA and their media exponents) could see.

A final postscript. There is a most appalling comment in the Independent today which says, “those Arsenal fans who remained in the Bullens Road Stand chanting that Everton had squandered a two-goal lead – or words to that effect – would probably have been the same ones who had spent season after barren season demanding that Wenger spend some of Arsenal’s vast financial reserves.”

While it is true that a few away fans have turned on Arsenal, the number is tiny. Our away support has been solid, loud and positive. As I have said before, the AAA which the media feeds off, represents about 3% of those who comment on Arsenal on blogs, and a handful in the stadium for league games. The famous pic of the turnip holding up a “spend some money” caption behind Mr Wenger two years ago, was taken at a match which (like most) I attended, and there was just a tiny number of negativists there even on that day. The infamous Black Flag protest got about 500 people at it, compared with 60,000 odd in the stadium. This type of gibberish from the Independent is insulting, and they need to be reminded of that.

144 comments to The Unbeaten Run gets up to 10; the Independent is insulting

To be fair Everton were fired up and played well. Their 2nd goal, as every one will agree was off side and not to mention the initial foul on our BFG. what’s more interesting and pleasing is that we got better towards the end and scored. Another 5 mins and we could have had the 3rd. Now onto the next one.

It was great to see and hear the Gunners supporters sing their heart out and give confidence to the team.
Well done guys – you rock !
As for the match commentators that we got , for the most part seemed to be fair and did call the 2nd Everton goal as offside .
I was wondering if the tide had really changed , but then realised that Jim Beglin probably must hate the Toffees more than us !

The manner of the fight back in the second half is most refreshing. I see the boys have stepped up their performance over the last two games. The more they play together, the more coherent they will get.

Now bring on the Turks! The carpet field of the Emirates will see our boys flying !!

Listening and watching the b.365 coverage yesterday the comms.were only negative towards Arsenal (Özil came in for specialised criticism)until the last couple of minutes when the started to switch things around, it was pretty demoralising to listen to.
I personally I thought it was a great comeback, fighting to the end.I wondered if Mesut and Per were taking a bit of time just to acclimatise back to the full game-its been a while, even if they have been training?
I also thought that the lads had to break the psychological barrier of the defeat from last year when the media were hailing Everton as the greatest thing since whatever.Im sure one article I read at the time said that “Arsenal should move over and let Everton have a CL place”. Perhaps journalists should move over and let some other people write their articles, we might get close to a fair report rather than some hidden agenda.
If any other team in the league would have pulled back from being 0-2 down in the last minutes of the game, it would have been hailed as a “wonderful comeback”, but somehow with the Arsenal its more about how terrible we were.Perhaps the media really just want Arsenal to be fantastic all the time and are actually just trying to give the club advice.Thats nice of them isnt it?
Im glad we deflated the ego of Martinez, at half time he thought it was going to be like last April.If it had we wouldnt have heard the end of it over here at Untold.
Sometimes I wonder whether many of the AAA are actually secret agent Chicken Brain, flown in from the Coop. Thanks to Al yesterday who organised the cannons and let off a big salvo and defended castle Untold from the Chicken Sh*t comments during the game.
Thanks for the article Tony. On to the CL now!
COYG! Aha and Amen!

Oh and no mention in the media of the chavs lucky break vs mighty Leicester? They should’ve been a goal down before they eventually scored. The chavs will, like last season struggle to beat teams at home and if they persist with such a high defensively line, against better and quicker opposition, they will get picked off.

The moment Roberto Martinez said his team were fatigued at the end of the match is the moment I realised we’d actually done all right. If any team had the right to be fatigued it’s the one that travelled to Turkey midweek and then had to travel up to Merseyside a few days later to face a (fairly decent and well managed) team who had had a weeks rest at home.

Think we did well in those circumstances and as the say – if you draw when you should have lost and you win when you should have drawn (as we have in last 3 matches) then there’s define fly something positive to build on.

What Coleman did in the 1st half when he tried to clear the ball through/across his own penalty area is something a player at his level should never do , he was lucky The Ox did not score
He was not blasted for this because later in the game he comes in late , not picked up and scores a good goal all is forgiven . Have not watched any TV but I bet this was not mentioned if it was an Arsenal defender the pundit would slaughter him
The point i am trying to make the AAA supporters and pundits would pick up on the negative aspect of this player/players
and keep the pressure on , so it must be terrible for Giroud and Ozil never to have their good points highlighted what they do in matches
It was a great comeback in spite of the officiais regulatory goal against Arsenal

why when any fan have a voice of complain, They are branded a 3% fans. I see things as they are. Let me put it this way, giroud is not one of the top 15 or 20 strikers in the world he might be too 50 which is good. But we only have one striker in arsenal. Every game he misses it shows how much we are lacking and he is not even one of the best strikers. We need a second striker. Am not asking for 50m striker, just a good enough striker in giroud level to give him compatition and cover. We been asking for that for 3 years running now and Wenger will never do it. So as we sing that we are the best team the world ever seen and we depend on a backup striker who scored 0 goals. So what is giroud on next game get injured your 6 months. What’s then?
If just funny how both sides are acting. One will defend the club management for anything for the heck of it. And other side are against. Nothing is gained as born sizes are simply childish.
We have a very good team and I still believe we are better than the unbeatable in the attacking side. Yes we don’t have a Henry or Dennis. But we have an attacking unit that is rich of talent. Why not complement it with a world class Dm and a decent cover striker?

I just hope Giroud and Ozil and Jack and all our players in fact take Arsene Wenger’s advice and don’t read the papers. It was very funny when he said in his press conference that he didn’t know until recently that there existed a radio show where listeners phone in their opinions. These journos aren’t as important as they think they are.

In my opinion this site is frequented by the most one-eyed supporters of Arsenal who are living in a Walter Mitty world of their own. If one is serious/sincere about supporting a beloved entity, then it calls for more than praise only. Realism is called for to live life constructively and successfully. I also support Arsenal, however, not blindly. Arsenal indeed can do better, however, we need to play as a team with one purpose and desire to win the EPL. The manager needs to help the team with a more astute approach to tactics. We can do with some better signings in Central and Midfield Defense and the Striker position. Up the Arsenal!!

I wasn’t going to join in this thread as I didn’t watch your game. I listened it on the radio on the way home from our game.

I will however comment on our game against Leicester.

Yes Chelsea could have been a goal down and on two occasions they launched decent counter attacks Courtois saved on both occasions. That’s what he is paid to do

The difference from last season was I always felt confident that we would score . I am not one to quote stats to make a point but we had 67 % possession and 27 attempts as opposed to 6.

Leicester , at this point in time, don’t look a bad team. I would rather not be playing a promoted team in the first half a dozen games but we have pulled out two. You can only beat those that are put in front of you.

Many of the big clubs, or perhaps I should say clubs that had players away till the later stages of the WC both Arsenal & Chelsea are in that group, are still trying to gel. In reality these clubs are several weeks behind the likes of Leicester, Sunderland, Newcastle etc .Most have had all of their squad available for weeks.

As for me I wont be making too many judgements as to how a club are going to perform over the season for several weeks yet.

Itti – a backup striker will only play for a club if he is very young and learning his trade, or he has real hope of playing in the first team. Giroud’s record in his first two seasons (40 goals) suggests he will get better, given that he achieved roughly the same level of goalscoring as Henry in his first two years.

As for backup we have Theo from September, Podolski, Joel C, Sanogo, and Alexis when he gets the hang of it. One of those will turn out to be good enough for us, I’m sure.

Second goal was a yard offside, likely an honest mistake from a slightly out-of-position linesman (the attack was frighteningly quick, not surprising the lino couldn’t keep up).

But to call the officiating “bent” is borderline libel, especially given that Wilshere was lucky to stay on the pitch after his lunging tackle.

The only stat that matters is the score line. You can quote possession stats all day long, but with my own eyes I saw Arsenal have a poor game today.

Great until they got to the penalty box, but no cutting edge. Most of our “shots” were just AOC blasting it from outside the box because we couldn’t get through a well-drilled Everton defence.

When Giroud came on we finally had that little bit of penetration, and got lucky with two late goals.

Yes we had the most shots, but they were mostly terrible. Yes we had a lot of possession, but it was mostly ineffectual.

I’m pleased as punch that Arsenal got a draw, but football is more than just statistics – shots and possession stats are not always a true barometer of a game.

Calling anyone who disagrees with you a 3% minority or an AAA is also quite odd… aren’t other people allowed to have opinions any more? Once upon a time, people who thought the Earth was round were in a tiny minority, but it was them who turned out to be right in the end…

Tbh we still look like we lack match sharpness as a team, that is what accounts for our lack of cohesion at them moment. everton were agressive n hardworking without really being dangerous, they bullied us more than anythin. The first goal was more down to a lack of defensive understand between 2 players who had never played together before. The 2nd goal should never have been given, but then chambers should never have dived in like that, put that down to inexperience. Giroud, despite gettin the equalizer, is a backup striker at best. He misses too many chances, the dutch skunk would have burried that volley from 3 yards out, if we had a quality striker we would have left goodison with all 3 points. I hope Giroud proves me wrong but he is not good enough to be our main striker. As for the referee, he was giving the home bias, just as he would if we were the home team

i would like to start a campaign for all gooners to boycott the bbc,so anti arsenal are they that shearer high-lighted the great everton counter attack for their second goal,until big ears pointed out naismith was off side,i for one am totally pissed with the anti arsenal bbc

Have had a few comments disappear, so apologies if these resurface later and there is multiple duplications..

Cheers Kenneth, had to do what I had to do. I would not even expect our rival fans to come up with some of the tripe these trolling members of our club come up with.

Yeah, Ozil and Jack were in for some unjustified criticism last night. Not entirely unexpected, and one could add Giroud to that list had he not found the net. Unfortunately that goal is only a temporary reprieve for the guy, as they will be back here knocking him again a week’s time. The funny thing, just like how our perofrmance was dubbed as rubbish, the stats tell a different story. We were better than Everton in every respect stats-wise, and Ozil and Jack’s stats will tell a different story too. But none of that matters at all; according to the media they are rubbish, were rubbish, wil always be rubbish. If our players are that rubbish, and not world class, how come when they leave Arsenal they leave at high prices, to join these so-called world class clubs? So either those big clubs don’t have a clue to buy rubbish players from us, or the journos don’t have a clue what a world class player is. Something does not add up here.

Even though we have come to expect no favours in the media, never thought I could see a journalist say disallowing Everton’s illegitimate offside goal would have been travesty. If that’s not cheating then I don’t know what is. Its akin to saying it was a travesty to take away all of Lance Armstrong’s medals as he was too good for the rest of the field.

we still need a striker a DM a good left back coz Gibbs is so injury prone, the thought of seeing Monreal playing there gives the opposition a smile on their face
We also lack the Pires type of player that can score rebounds on the left flank. I know there is need for Wilshere to progress but Wenger shd stop making silly mistakes in big matches like these otherwise if we get the likes chelsea we shall easily get 8-0 beating.
Why do our players have to wait for the opposition players to get back and they start playing these stupid 1 meter passes. we always loss these passes.Get along range passer and some1 who can control the tempo of the game. Wenger shd understand that football evolves. He just needs to be creative.
Am still puzzled as why Wenger is married to these shor guys in Midfield. He has not balanced the team

Ryan F
That is hogwash, the linesman was in a perfect position with Naismith. There was no obstruction whatsoever. Take a look again. It’s twisting of facts like that that undermines your whole argument.

May I add I was completely taken aback reading Ryan Fs post. After reading the first two paragraphs I was convinced ok here’s an Everton fan trying to defend his team. You can imagine my surprise when I then went on to read that ‘most of “our” shots were AOC blasting…. ‘

Seriously, this from an Arsenal fan? Labelling our judgement of the ref’s officiating, trying to defend a blatant biased decision from the linesman by describing the Everton attack as frightening quick even though that resulted from a blatant foul on our player which the officials “missed” again. ?? I honestly wonder why some people bother supporting a club they clearly have bad wishes for. Isn’t it just simpler to support the other club?

” Its akin to saying it was a travesty to take away all of Lance Armstrong’s medals as he was too good for the rest of the field”

Best described as Gibberish
Similar attacks made on the Arsenal in the mbm coverage in the Manchester Grunt

Just for laughs that bastion of journalistic integrity the bleeb described Ramsey’s second yellow on Tuesday as ‘a bad foul’

It is what it is and no apologists can re-write what has been published, MOTDs inability o show a clear foul on per etc

As we saw with Calciopoli:
It is what it is.

Gibberish.

Not exactly up to the standards of say the cricket plunditry. Embarrassing for those involved. Im trying to be kind here. A shame for football fans who deserve better then this charade. Only a fool would even try to defend such obvious and poorly constructed propaganda.

Only a fool would try to defend the administrators who have kept replays and other aids for the officials away from the worlds biggest richest and most popular sport. When all other big sports have had no option but to do so.

It is what it is. And you don’t need a football brain to ask why the officials are incapable of their jobs. Further: it is deeply strange to question those who question those who can’t do the job that we, the fans, pay them to do.
Who would or could object to that? Strange behaviour.

Great recovery from Arsenal. As we know by now playing away from home in the champions league quickly followed by another away game in your domestic League is usually a recipe for a dip in performance. Check Celtic and Athletic Bilbao results this last week.

Wenger should stop buying these short guys.Wenger shd get Khedira and Reus then offload Podoloski, Diaby and Cocline this season (khedira and Reus will not cost 40m). Next season sell Flamini and Arteta bring in Pogba and William. This would be a perfect line up and its not hard to build
Scezyne

It’s difficult to accept you viewed that as a mistake only by the official, Ryan, especially when you attempted to twist facts to the effect that the ref was so behind play due to a lightning fast attack, which you were promptly told wasn’t the case.

I certainly would want Sanchez out of our club if he consistently made the mistake of giving the opposition the ball. But he does the right thing 63% of the times (based on the stats you provided for yesterday’s game) I can live with that. But if the officials consistently make mistakes that go one way only then those cease being called mistakes.

“We happily sing “We won the league at White Hart Lane” (or at least those of us who know the words sing it) and sweep aside the fact that we actually only drew that match in the Unbeaten season) BECAUSE OF AN UTTERLY STUPID GOAL LET IN AT THE END.”

Tony,

I have emphasised the last bit of your words above because of those worshippers of the Invincibles and Henry. They write like the Invincibles could do no wrong and were perfect in all footballing matters. Say that Giroud’s record for his first 2 seasons is close to Henry’s for the same period and they come at you like religious fanatics: “sacrilege! blasphemy!” they scream. “How dare you compare Giroud with Henry, HOW DARE YOU?”

We get load of crap like this because of people’s short and deliberately selective memories. The Invincibles were great but they weren’t perfect. They made their fair share of mistakes like every other team. We also always forget that they never had to deal with financially doped Chelsea and Man City. Their toughest away game was at Old Trafford in which we were fortunate to not get screwed by the referee as RvN lost the minute penalty (my avatar is an homage to that moment 🙂 ). Imagine having to make 2 of such difficult trips to the current Stamford Bridge and Etihad. Just imagine!

The Invincibles were great and Henry’s place in Arsenal football history shall abide forever BUT they were all humans with flaws; we need to stop deifying them.

“I love Arsenal, but not blindly enough that I place all their failings at the door of referees, the FA and the media”

How about acknowledging/placing yesterday’s “failing”by Arsenal at the officials’ door, coz that’s what it was. If it wasn’t for that wrong call we’d have won 2-1. Wouldn’t that be a good start.. You say you won’t place all their failings on the officials door, but you can’t even place one of the failings which everyone agreed was a mistake on the officials door. But instead choose to defend it. If you look at your 10:40 post again you are saying we were lucky to get a draw we didn’t deserve. Nowhere in there do you acknowledge the officials’ mistakes may have cost us three points. So which failing exactly are you going to place on the officials’ door?

Trawling the web, the sheer number of match “reviews” that don’t even mention the offside goal is really astonishing. Sports journalism is not an exact science, but to think some of these people get paid for their rubbish… Also, I could go on at length about the copy/paste parade, but shan’t. At least it was a good, easy filter for sites to not visit.

The officials were a comedy of errors, summed up best when Sr. Monreal had nothing to do but laugh at a decision against him towards the end. I might be tempted to allow half that amount due to the home crowd, but only if we get the same preferential treatment at the Emirates. (chuckle)

4. Did we score from an undeserved penalty or any undeserved set-piece for that matter?

5. Did we foul any Everton player on the way to scoring either of our goals?

6. Did we score any goal that can be described as illegitimate or ‘lucky’ by any standard?

If the answer to all of this is “NO” then just shut the fuck up and stop posting like morons. Everton’s 2nd goal is extra-ordinarily lucky for reasons nos. 1 & 5 above. They were lucky to get a draw while we were robbed of or unlucky to get a victory.

Good morning Tony, how is this Sunday doing with you? Hope fine. Due to my satellite failing, I did not watch the match. But I followed it well on Arsenal.com and bbc live scores websites. But my twitter account cannot send any tweets whenever I tweeted on #EFCvsAFC on Ars.com to air my opinion as I normally do, whenever Arsenal is playing. I even deleted some of my old tweets, but still my tweets was not sending. Maybe my account is being compromised or blocked. Someone said Giroud is not ranked among the 15 -20 top strikers in the world. Ronaldo, Messi, Cavani, Falcao, Mandzukic, Aguero, Adjen Robben, Ledwanski, Pogba, Rooney, Suarez, De Maria, Van Persie. Benzima, Diego Costa, James Rodriguez, Bale, Neymar, Balotelli, Ibrahimovic and Sturridge. I am able to name 21 top strikers I can remember. I believe OG should be inbetween those 21. Arsenal is like a king or the heir apparent in the castle. When Arsenal play or Mr Wenger speaks, the football world, watch, listen, talk and more often criticize us. no spc

Mr Garrett was the visually challenged twit of a linesman who did not see Naismith offside – and he was in a good position to do so.

As I noted on a previous thread, this was the same Mr Garrett who did not appear to see the “Hand of Vidic” a few years ago.

The incident towards the end of the match when Monreal laughed at the decision against him resulted from Naismith, having conceded a corner, dived to simulate a foul and free kick, to prevent the corner – Friend (willingly?) and linesman fell for it.

Once again a great come back by the team, despite a plethora of one sided decisions from the officials.

@Ryan F
You haven’t answered my question so I will repeat it.
Why or how is getting two late goals lucky?
Or are you saying our two goals involved a slice of luck. Are two early goals also lucky. Sorry I don’t get it.
And here is another
Do you agree Evertons 2nd goal was lucky, given it was scored by someone in an offside position (we will ignore the foul on BFG in the build up)?
Two simple questions, lets have a simple answer.

“a backup striker will only play for a club if he is very young and learning his trade, or he has real hope of playing in the first team”

Aguero, Dzeko,Jovetic and Negredo are all strikers of Giroud caliber or thereabouts and yet somehow they seem to manage to play for one team.

Giroud has been extremely lucky with injuries last season considering how many games he played and if you consider this is the WC year , his work load should be probably about 25% less this season. Contrary to popular belief, there are a limited number of games a player can play in a calendar year before his body starts to break down. Giroud’s minutes need to monitored more carefully than any other Arsenal player this season.

Very much appreciated, bjtgooner. Now I remember the incident. I must have blocked it somehow, due to how incredibly irritated I was at Naismith for the entire 90 minutes, the crying-baby looking c***. Him and the linesman, what a double act, yet still one-upped by Mr. Friend.

@Tom
‘Aguero, Dzeko,Jovetic and Negredo are all strikers of Giroud caliber or thereabouts and yet somehow they seem to manage to play for one team.’
Maybe that is something to do with the stupidly high financial packages they are paid as opposed to what they would get at a normal club.

Last year, we got whopped 3-0 at Goodison
With a disputed second goal and with 5minutes of normal time to go, the cause seemed lost. Yet, here we are with a 2-2 draw. A loss averted; a point won. Good outcome for Arsenal. Should be good for all Arsenal fans. Except, there will always be some who think not.

Sometime ago someone contributed an article defining the AAA and the AKBs. Many didn’t agree with those distinctions, but I did. There is probably a third category though, the rodents. When I was growing up somewhere far away from these shores, some areas in the country I lived had a rat problem. Yes, I mean the rat, that annoying little pest. It was said rats could eat the skin off your palms and feet while you were sleeping. How they managed to do this without you feeling any pain was not clear, but happen it did. Many said a rat would nibble a piece of your skin, then immediately blow the affected area to ‘cool it down’ so you don’t feel any pain. They would do this till all the skin was chewed off. As a result, in my culture, anyone who was adept at hiding their true stance in an argument or debate was compared to a rat that chewed your skin off without you being aware of it nor feel any pain. The end result was this caused quite significant damage.

We have some individuals who behave like rats here. They don’t come out in the open like some AAAs and criticise the club outright but choose to defend bungling officials or the media, calling us paranoid if we question what any sane human being can interpret as cheating, call us lucky not to have lost heavily or such other nonsense (sperez, an AAA through and through, was clear about disliking the manager and wanting him gone. Not sure what happened to sperez though, seems he went first before the manager 🙂 ). While I don’t like the AAA for undermining the club, I do not mind verbal sparring with sperez’s like even if it resorted to name-calling most of the times, I don’t expect myself to agree with everyone all the time. And let me add I never agreed with sperez on any single occasion. But I would rather have an opinion like his than have someone pretend to be pro Arsenal but constantly chip away at our confidence, undermining the club and manager by posting devious and underhand remarks, all designed to have a negative effect on the club. Such individuals come across as dishonest, and I can’t stand dishonest people. Shame on you, spineless rodents. You know who you are.

re: Monreal smile. I guess its an open secret to Gunners, their opponent and th the pgMob. Wonder why some section of our fans(??!) so blind and believe its ‘libel’ to call on the lino apparent incompetence.

Boo, their first goal come from undeserved free kicks. So 2 times lucky. But not our goals. How could some arsenafans(??) thinks we’re lucky baffles me.

Tom, does that means aguero, dzeko, negredo and jovetic shite, crap, useless n cant score since you group them with Giroud. Thats what some ‘fan’ describe what Giroud. You did imply they were world class then does that mean Giroud is world class now? Btw, you realise we don’t have crazy fundings from any sugardaddy, dont you?

i would not join in the debate btn the 3% and bonifide blue bloods,i would like to acknowledge a remarkable improvement frm giroud compared to tuesday.
2ndly jc needs more game time,yesterday it took a while b4 he asserted himself
3rdly nice to see Aoc taking shots from a far he was gettin a hang of it b4 that injury,we all rem eng vs brazil
4th why are pple bashing on jw10 instead of highlighting the fouls against him their only defence being that he invites tackles by holding onto the ball
5th its said we were marouded in the 1st half truth b told b4 the first goal went in everton were all over our players even b4 they received the ball they were bundled over,i can now see the stupendous lightweight arsenal theory was coined
6th kudos to carzola and monreal for their assists.
all in all i love arsenal and what it stands for whether you are an AKB or AAA we share a common love that is arsenal,lets criticise constructively n lets not forget players are human too they can bottle banter frm opposition bt nt frm their fans,take a look at gervinho,AA23 among others.
In conclusion our motto reads VICTORIA CONCORDIA CRESCIT,we have to unite n b in harmony b4 anything else …COYG

Ryan F’s comments can be shorten to: “Mistakes from the officials is okay but if Arsenal players show any imperfections, they must be crucified for it”

No, quite the opposite; my point is that mistakes by players are tolerated, yet referees who make mistakes are criticized, which to me smacks of double-standards.

This site is quick to condemn the media for pointing out Arsenal’s deficiencies, but itself has no problem putting the boot into referees.

Look, apologies if I’m coming across as a troll here, that’s not my intention, you guys obviously just see the game differently to me, and I can appreciate there are two sides to every story.

Arsenal have looked laboured and sluggish in their three games since the Community Shield, and this worries me more than any referee. The defending for the Palace goal, the defending for the first Everton goal, the way Besiktas got in behind us a few times – that’s what we need to complain about!

That said, it’s a sign of a good team who can play badly in three games and still eke out results. Because of the world cup a lot of our players are still playing in second gear at the moment – it’s telling that our best player so far has been Aaron Ramsey, who had no such distractions. When we play the way we KNOW we can play, this will be a side to be reckoned with, that’s for sure.

We may disagree on some things, but all of us are united in our love for Arsenal and that’s the one thing we all share.

This literally translates to: “The one who eat you while blowing you with cool breeze like a house rat”. I totally get your anecdote bro. Were you in West Africa by any chance?

Talking about the sort of Arsenal fans that you mentioned above, while I disagree with Rupert Cook almost 100%, I don’t detest him even half as much as Tom who I agree with more often than not. It is the dishonesty of posts from fans like him who are often trying to be smart by half, often nit-picking at positive fans’ comments to score cheap anti-Arsenal points that drives me up the wall. Then we have the super fickle whose opinion of Arsenal players and manager is based on the team’s latest result and the individual performances per game. And not to forget those who rush here and on Twitter to post abusive VERDICTS on 45 minutes of 90 minute games.

We should all calm down and support our team. To those who say they must criticise or they fail at being fans: well, it is not your job as most of you have no fucking clue about what you are criticising the players over. Let the professional employed for that purpose do his job. You cannot moan at players for not meeting your expectations when you are failing woefully as a supporter.

With all these shit going on about our ‘non-performance’, one main thing is being ignored completely.

We have a new resilience. FA cup is an example. We kept fighting till the end. We fought and won against the apparent refereeing bias. The last game in Turkey we managed to draw a match on a non playable pitch. And against Everton again we fought against refereeing incompetence…..

Therz more positive to look at than the negatives. And let’s not forget, negatives can be worked on and improved upon.

“We’ve got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?”
–Lee Iacocca

“Your food stamps will be stopped effective March 1992 because we received notice that you passed away. May God bless you. You may reapply if there is a change in your circumstances.”
–Department of Social Services, Greenville , South Carolina

Bootoomee
Lol! That literal translation had me in stitches, as it is exactly the same in my culture. I’m not from West Africa no, am from Southern Africa, specifically, Zimbabwe. But yes, I absolutely agree with you regarding posters who go about expressing their opinions, while undermining others’, in a deceptive and dishonest way.

Three seasons plus worth of statistical data on referees which have been published and are still online and available to all thanks to this website and those volunteers behind such work.

There is a reason “Ryan” is ignoring this data on the officials available from this site. Instead spinning himself hopelessly around with the same old embarrassing non-sensical and meaningless gibberish. It’s a sad spectacle. I’d like to see someone even try to debunk the stats compiled upon untold over the years. But they can’t. So they resort to writing gibberish, and some even attempt to get the site taken down.

Like those who publish their comments in public whilst tying themselves in knots (see above), the hackers too have failed in their efforts.

“my point is that mistakes by players are tolerated, yet referees who make mistakes are criticized, which to me smacks of double-standards.”

Sorry pal, I didn’t know that we now have a referee supporters’ club and that you are a member. I am an Arsenal supporter; I support our players not just when they are flying high but when they are struggling. That is why we forgive OUR OWN players’ imperfections and give rivals’ and officials hell for theirs. That is what supporters do. Blaming your own players while praising rivals is a new concept where fans who want to be loved on Twitter and the Internet resort to abusing their own players to appear balanced or knowledgeable and of course, get lost of “thumbs up”. Please don’t confuse this with support.

Then you wrote (to Mick):

“Well, we nicked an unlikely last-gasp draw from a game in which we were 2-0 down after 83 minutes and played poorly. I’m thanking the footballing gods for that one!”

You are a fucking hypocrite!

You are more than happy to forgive the mistakes of the referees (who you have no business with and are not supposed to be making excuses for)

You glorify an Everton team that you do not support, a team that lost a 2 goal lead in 8 minutes. That team is great but Arsenal is poor?

Your hypocrisy comes to fore when you give the credit for the team’s comeback to the “football gods” but wouldn’t yield an inch in blaming the Arsenal players. What the hell! Shouldn’t you also be blaming the “football devils” for us conceding the 2 goals, especially as one of them is diabolical?

What the fuck does “football gods” even mean? Is it an imaginary entity you made up to dishonestly deny others their dues? If you are, say, a plumber, would you be okay for your achievement in plumbing to be attributed to “gods of plumbing”?

Bootoomee
I’m glad to see that your hard-on for me is as big as it has ever been 🙂

BTW I did read your last article. It was quite good I thought. I said most of the same things you posted in it but in real time , especially after the Liverpool and Chelsea game and I got crucified for it on here by the likes of you and others. And you call me disingenuous. Ha, ha , keep up the good work pal. You really entertain me 🙂

FOYS- re the BBC, I think you’re right, the journalist Chris Beven gives everything Arsenal a good thrashing in his article on Arsenals “new resolve”- he must have been bored over the summer so after two league games we have in-depth analysis,no stone unturned- as it is every year until the cold weather comes then the journos seem to tail off a bit.Its like the people that start diaries at new year and write everything until the 17th January then their entries fade away as the year gets into motion.
Its the 24th of August and already Sánchez is being written off. Bevens report(!) also says that Everton were totally dominant, lucky the possession stats show differently.I didnt see the game only heard it and watched the daft radar so all apologies if Everton were totally dominant, teams can fly under the radar apparently.
If Mr.Beven knows everything perhaps he could use the umlaut in Özils name or put the bloody e after the O.I would have thought the well-educated BBC journalists would have know this or perhaps not, remember when the BBC thought the BFG stood for the Big Friendly Giant? Anyway at least if Arsène and the lads are in trouble they can go to the BBC for advice on how to play the game.
COYG! AHA and Amen!

Kindly copy and paste on this thread wherever I said a bad word about our players or manager in my article, you poor dishonest soul. Suggesting that the team adopt a different strategy in about 10% of our games is not the same as picking on players or the manager but that may be too complicated for you.

As I have told you before, I don’t detest you because we disagree, I just can’t stand your dishonesty on those issues that we disagree on.

It’s been over half a year now but I am still waiting for you to name those Untold regulars who were always criticising Ozil as you disingenuously charged.

Bootoomee
Thanks for putting Ryan F in his place and saving me the trouble, you said it far more succinctly than I could.
With late goals in the Cup Final and against C Palace last week we are having a hell of a lot of luck according to his reckoning. Nothing to do with us keeping going till the final whistle and showing great skill, never say die attitude and resilience.
With his (Ryan F’s) willingness to forgive the match officials and the opposition their mistakes whilst condemning our own players and manager for theirs, makes you wonder whether he is actually an Arsenal supporter.

A gay dig ? Ha , ha , you must be really getting desperate my man.
And I am rather well off and quite honest . Still hanging on to that Ozil thing I see, you really should let go . It’s not good for your mental health.
I’m beginning to worry about you man 🙂

Agree that the officiating was atrocious against us, yet again, but I am convinced if a conspiracy exists it is to stop Wenger. Like his relationship with the media, you have to look at his relationship with referees since he came to England. Look at his behaviour towards the referees and especially the 4th officials, moaning at them incessantly. Michael Oliver gave him a look at one stage yesterday as if to say “you’re really annoying me now, wait until I get your next game”. A great Arsenal manager but the way he has handled the officials and media in England has not done Arsenal any favours.

Strange headline at Skysports’ website : “United claim draw at Sunderland”. Pretty neutral (almost kind of positive) headline cosidering that United now has 1 point in 2 matches. Wonder what they had wrote if we had lost at Everton a team that has lost only 4 matches in 2 years at home…

The real issue is whether Arsenal can improve, whether the obvious weaknesses in both their attacking and defensive game will be solved with more matches. They looked far from solid at the back and for most of the match, unimaginative in attack. Sure, four points from the first two fixtures is just fine, but to an extent, they have got away with it so far. It would not have taken much for it to be just one point out of six instead. There may be cause for optimism in the side getting points when they do not play well, but a deeper concern is whether they will click as a unit to the extent required to remain in the mix for the title. Currently, it really doesn’t look like it. Still, early days, eh?

@Sean
Of course they will click and of course they will improve. We were in contention last year until injuries took their toll so why should it be different this year. Our youngsters have another year under their belt, Ozil should improve in his second year, we have a couple of new additions. Our pre season has been piece meal because of the world cup and it is early days, far to early to start being pessimistic for goodness sake.
As for saying it could have been one point out of six I would say it SHOULD have been six points out of six bar a terrible call by the lino to allow Evertons second goal which was plainly offside.

Well said Mick. Arsenal did NOT benefit from offside or other contentious decisions so definitely earned every point they have. As you rightly point out it should be six out of six.

Last season we were robbed of obvious points in matches at places such as West Brom and Stoke, and at home against Chelsea, Utd, etc. Had we got those points who knows where we’d have finished. This campaign I’m going to keep a tab of points we are robbed of, starting with the two at Everton, and see where we stand end of season with and without those points.

Forgive the officials for gifting Everton the second goal. Let’s ignore the fact that Everton lost 2 goal leads in 8 minutes at home. Give no credit to Arsenal for a 2 goal comeback against a top5 team away. Being supportive of your team is for pussies. Real ‘fans’ always beat up their teams and players when they are down (as Sean gleefully did while we trailed on Saturday) and then give no credit when we recover. Just whine and whine and whine.

I don’t get it – do you contend that all of our players should have got a 10/10 for their performance? This question is of course not relevant to the abhorent refereeing and the fact that we should have won fair and square.

I think that there are brain-farts like “Giroud is shit” or “Ozil is shit” or “Wenger home” and other stupid baseless comments, or “we need to buy ____” (whoever that may be), but there are fair, factual, and constructive criticsm when some of our players don’t perform to their best. I am differentiating between real and fair criticism which is healthy, and toxic comments which do not contribute anything to the discussion.

So in a way it’s a lot about writing style. I’ll give 2 examples:

(a) In the last 2 league games Arsenal showed great character coming back from behind to win against Palace and getting a point in Goodison Park – one of the toughet places to get points from. Both times, scoring in the dying minutes, not giving up, this is the steel that everybody used to say that we were missing. It’s even a bigger encourgment to get these results while suffereing from bad decisions by the match officials, not having all of our first team players available, and not having everybody in full match fitness – which contributed to a less flowing game by our players.

OR

(b) Arsenal looked sluggish in their last 2 games. Wilshere is out of sorts. Gibbs injured again and we desperatly need a back up for our left back as Monreal is not good enough. Sanchez is not suitable for the premier legaue, he is too short and too light. At least we have Ramsey who just gets in there and scores but he will also get injured. We need a new striker as Giroud is just not good enough – even Arsene doesn’t believe in him. We were lucky to get those injury time goals but as we know luck will run out at some point.

It’s clear that point (b) is just a big moan and fails to mention anything positive. But to say that we didn’t look sharp enough against Palace or that Everton were better than us in the first half is (in my opinion) not being dishonest.

As I said a lot earlier in this thread I didn’t watch the whole of this game. I have now watched some edited highlights and so in terms of a couple of the “controversial” decisions can make a couple comments from a neutral point of view and also the context of the game.
Re Everton’s second goal. It looked like a foul from Lukaka. There is no doubt that the pass to the scorer was an offside.The assts poor positioning made it impossible for him to see it.

Wilshire was a lucky boy not to be shown a straight red.

To come back from two goals is an achievement at any level so to achieve it at PL is a little bit special and should be celebrated not mourned

Not quite sure that AW set the team right for the first half. But good managers make changes that impact. (whoops nearly a compliment)although Giroud offers so much to you as an attacking unit other than he has eyes toward Wednesday I cant see why he didn’t start.

Everton probably over achieved in the first half and tired very quickly the ages of their midfield, and indeed their CD also the lack of squad depth didn’t help them and may well be an issue as the season goes on.

Great comeback from a very poor first half. Celebrate the point. It could, and from a position of two down, should have been worse.

TommieGun
Point A perfectly sums everything up; it talks about wrong decision making from the officials (which is the main reason we did not leave with 3 points), talks about full match fitness(I think it’d be silly of anyone to think there’s a team that’s reached 100% at this time of year, it was Ozil and Per’s first matches of season ), and it mentions injuries (which again is a very valid point as Kos,Arteta,Theo, would have been available).

If I was to add anything at all to point A it would be that Arsenal had been away to Turkey midweek, and now travelled up north a few days later. Fatigue, esp so early in the season, will definitely have played it’s part if you consider our midweek exertions on a pitch not fit for donkey grazing away in Turkey. You hear the media say Everton were tired then Arsenal took advantage of that, and people do not question that at all. How many games had both teams played in 5 days? Shouldn’t it be said that Arsenal showed remarkable resilience to keep fighting right up to the 90th minute after a match away in Turkey 4 days earlier? Yet they’ll use fatigue as an excuse why Everton threw a 2 nil lead away. You also hear the media claim Everton bombarded us but the stats show they only had 2 shots on target all match, hardly a bombard. The stats show we were superior in every department, but the media tells a different story. As you pointed out yourself, point B is nothing but a big moan full of unjustified criticism.

So to answer your question anyone doing logical thinking will see point A sums it all up nicely. Then you get dimwits who swallow all the garbage from the media(fatigue, ignoring stats and offside goals), don’t question anything at all even having watched the match themselves, and start attacking the team for no reason. It’s people like that that annoy the most, want to have a moan just for the sake of it. Ok, it’s their right to have a moan, but can they take it elsewhere (in their bedroom, down at the pub with their equally negative mates, or wherever else) as noone can stomach such unjustified moaning.

Mike T
Your post above is a little bemusing, you praise and criticise in both measure. Read my post below yours as most of the answers to the things you pointed are covered in there.
“The assts poor positioning made it impossible for him to see it”

100% false. Its when people come up with manufactured evidence like this to justify a bad decision by the official that we start questioning their motives. Since you’re a rival fan I will not go that far. But that official was ahead of play, and was perfectly in line with the offside player not to see it. The attack took place at his near side of the pitch as well, not the far side, so no excuses for him not to see that. As for Everton being tired read my post. I’ll not entertain arguments such as why didn’t so and so start, we have more that 11 equally capable players and they all can’t be on the pitch at the same time. Thank you for your alternative views though, but massively flawed.

@ Al – my friend, you chose to ignore the bottom line of what I wrote, which was that we didn’t look sharp enough against Palace or that Everton were better than us in the first half is (in my opinion).

If someone would have written point (a), and added the above comments – would you still consider it a moan? I will ask the question in a different way: do you disapprove of any criticism whatsoever? This goes back to the beginning of my first post: do you guys think that all of our players merited a 10/10 score?

TommieGun
Sorry if I didn’t respond to all your questions. I thought they were just points a and b, with the last paragraph summarising both points. But you will see I already covered that in my response to point a, where I said it would be ridiculous for anyone to expect any team to be at 100% levels only after two weeks of the season starting. There were negatives from both matches, and certainly no-one would get a 10/190 in my book. Not from Arsenal, Palace or Everton, not even the media darling clubs are firing from all cylinders at this stage of the season. Even in mid-season perfect 10/10 scores are hard to get. But if you ask that question again and change it to were we better than both Palace and Everton I would give you a firm yes. Better than the two, but not yet at our best, as Mick pointed out at 10:46pm. Why should we be at our best when everyone else isn’t?

Only a few days ago, an article that I wrote was published. It’s theme? How “Arsenal can avoid big away losses away to the top teams”.

Some liked my suggestions and agreed with me while some didn’t. BUT, no one thought that I was being negative or being unfairly critical of our team. Except the lying piece of shit, Tom and the other AAA apologist Chapman’s Ghost of course.

Your comment of 8.42am is unfair to both me and AL. You insinuated that we were antagonising anyone who dared suggested that Arsenal wasn’t perfect: “do you contend that all of our players should have got a 10/10 for their performance?”. That is very unfair and I know that you are a fairer person than that.

After our victory over Crystal Palace, my first sentence here was “That was not our best performance by far”. I also believe that we could have done better at Everton. I (and AL) don’t think that we are perfect and I know that you know that we aren’t saying that. Some of us just can’t accept the wholesale condemnation of a team that has been fighting resiliently to get the best results they possibly could at the moment. The team still has work to do: LIKE EVERY OTHER TEAM!

I am guilty has charged when it comes to laying into those who simply cannot see anything good that this team does. What do you say to someone who is happy to blame our team for conceding 2 goals including a wrong one but then turned around to give credit for our 2 goal comeback to the “football gods”?

We all criticise the team one way or the other; it is the outright condemnation while denying FULLY deserved credit that some of us cannot accept. Especially on a site dedicated to “supporting” Arsenal players.

Gotta love you giving the linesman a pass on a vital decision but then wrote:

“Wilshire was a lucky boy not to be shown a straight red”

No he wasn’t lucky. The ref punished him with a yellow. It is the refs decision to make and he made it as he saw fit. Maybe another ref would have have sent him off but it is the same with penalties. Some give it for some infringements, some don’t. Enough with the Wilshere was lucky talking point, especially coming from someone who is making debunked excuse for a decision the officials got totally wrong.

I don’t know about your claim of being neutral but as title rivals, I don’t watch Chelsea matches as a neutral (I am honest about where I stand) so I find it difficult to believe that you are anything but a neutral. You might be less biased than me but a claim of neutrality is an illusion here dude.

@ Boo fair enough didn’t mean any offence and don’t think you should have taken any, I was trying to make a point – which in some cases requires taking the argument into extremeties.

Al explained it perefectly and I agree – we were better than Palace and Everton. We deserved to win and would have won if not for the bad calls by the ref.

My point, actually, is much more relevant for the people who write negative stuff, and don’t understand why they are being berated, rather than for for you and Al and other positive supporters.

We all know it when the team or some players doesn’t play well, it happens sometimes. Sometimes it has a very good explanation, sometimes it doesn’t. When people see a game where we didn’t play our best, and see that we are fuming about refs’ decisions, for instance, they automatically think that we absolve our players totally, which is not true – it’s just not what we focus on writing.

Its not rocket science I am afraid but if the asst referee isn’t in line with the last defender and its a tight call, which this was, then its far more difficult to make the decision and as the presumption is in the favour of the attacker then it makes if even more difficult.

It was offside, no one is denying that just as no one can deny the assistant was way too advanced.

Everton it has been claimed ran out of steam, they shouldn’t have and on the back of your schedule at two nil with just 8 minutes left then they really should be able to see the game out.

However if you read Everton’s supporters comments going back two or three weeks ago they have been questioning the fitness of their squad but what’s more interesting is they have been really concerned about the ages of most of their first choice 11 indeed on Saturday they started with 5 players over the age of 32 and during the game replaced on of the 32 year olds with a 33 year old.

“My point, actually, is much more relevant for the people who write negative stuff, and don’t understand why they are being berated, rather than for for you and Al and other positive supporters.”

I don’t want to sound condescending but can you please scroll up to the welcome banner to this site, please?

I think that I will understand you better if you can refer to any reasonable criticism of the team that AL or myself have taken issue with. I plead with you to make the reference (this request is not rhetorical).

If you are going to disagree with me for laying into the unreasonably critical then guilty as charged and I am not going to change one iota so you might as well get used to it.

I am not making an excuse for the failure to give the offside. Indeed I thought I was making the point that his poor positioning made it impossible to call it correctly. Surely that`s saying he made a mistake and that led to him finding it nigh on impossible to make the correct call which no one disputes was offside.

I hope the following comment from you doesn’t come back to haunt you

“The ref punished him with a yellow. It is the refs decision to make and he made it as he saw fit. Maybe another ref would have sent him off but it is the same with penalties. Some give it for some infringements, some don’t.”

As for being title rivals well some say that there are 5, 6 or even 7 clubs that are in with a real shout of winning the league and yes we are one of that number just as are Arsenal but from everything I have read suggest that Everton are in that number so yes easy to be neutral and from that neutral standpoint a draw was a great result .

TommieGun
Fair enough you seem to agree with what I say in the end. I think you’d find its usually the same suspects/culprits that come on here attacking the team unfairly, never giving the team any credit and rather opting to call it lucky or some other nonsense when we do well, as Bootoomee says, that I would expect you to understand when patience runs out with such individuals. And ran out it did, a long long time ago. As Bootoomee already pointed out, when the team doesn’t play well we also acknowledge it, and agree with these criticisms where they are justified. It’s not like we have taken a position in one corner and firmly wedged ourselves there, no. But with some individuals if Arsenal does well its only due to luck or the other team gifting us victory/goals on a plate. In other words, they never think we’re deserving of any win/draw.

Mike T
Ok, I see you still insist the lino was poorly positioned, but that ain’t true. Walter’s review is up on this site and he also says the lino was perfectly positioned to see the offside, but chose not to raise his flag. I am going to try and find a GIF, so we put this issue to bed once and for all. Hopefully I can find one.

Yes, I have absolutely low tolerance for negative comments. Especially on a site that is famous (or notorious depending on who you ask) for SUPPORTING Arsenal players and manager. Criticisms are welcome but they should be evidence-based, fair and not abusive. We, the so called ‘deluded’ fans, should be left alone to wallow in our delusions in our haven (Untold Arsenal) in peace.

About my comment you quoted: I don’t see how they can come back to haunt me. Refs fuck up all the time and there is nothing we can do about it. Besides, each of the point I made are those Arsenal have mostly been at the receiving end of. We don’t get most of our deserved penalty awards and our players get unfairly sent off from time to time.

I think you read too much into it my friend, how can I be haunted with what is already a reality for my club.

I agree the asst ref is closer being in line with Naismith but that is not the correct position. He should have been parallel with the second last defender- not the attacker which in this case was Naismith

@BJT

Best have word with Al as he thinks he was in line with Naismith. Irrespective cant make sense of your post for if Garrett was about a yard ahead of Naismith then surely he was out of position?

Mike T
If it was like that then linesmen would miss most of these offside calls as they are hardly ever in line with the second last defender all the time. I think you’re just trying to be technical to support your point. You can clearly see he’s in a perfect position to see this. Anyway, how this argument all started was the linesman was supposed to be behind (go through the comments and you’ll see this for yourself) after he couldn’t keep up with Everton’s frighteningly quick counter attack. I’ll let it rest now, don’t see any point in continuing with this argument when video evidence is being twisted.

That’s the beauty of football we all tend to see decisions from our own teams standpoint and as I have tried to point out time and again most of the contentious decisions are one mans opinion & that one man in the main we love to hate.

I have just spent a few minutes reading comments re your game on Everton and in truth many of their supporters see things a little different to many on here.

As I say I have only seen highlights so cant comment on the whole game but as I saw some of the contentious issues and really do think I can, in respect of this game, claim to be neutral.

So to a couple of those incidents.

Lukaka where he uses his body to ease your CD just prior to the second goal. It probably was a foul but their take on it was that it wasn’t and it was all down to strength.
Another was your second goal and they think Distin was fouled by Giroud . In truth I cant get my head around that one at all.

I would have thought within a yard of Naismith was about as close as the linesman needed to be to realize Naismith was offside. Further, Garrett leaned to his left to try and move his head more into line.

I have just re-watched the incident on a large screen and Naismith is clearly ahead of Debuchy – the last defender. Debuchy was just slightly goal side of Flamini, the second last defender. If Garrett had been in line with Flamini, it is possible that it could be argued that Flamini obstructed his view. As it was, by accident or design Garrett was in a good position to realise Naismith was offside, but didn’t call it.

So are you suggesting that every decision given by a linesman, apart from the one in question, only takes place when the linesman is exactly level with the second last defender?

“As I said a lot earlier in this thread I didn’t watch the whole of this game. I have now watched some edited highlights…”
And from this you concluded that it was “…a very poor first half.”

Once you realised that “There is no doubt that the pass to the scorer was an offside…”, the position of the assistant is irrelevant. You could add though, if you were really “neutral”, that this is why UA has been advocating video ref!

“Wilshire was a lucky boy not to be shown a straight red.” Maybe, but at least he was booked for the challenge. Which is more that I can say for a far worse lunge into Arteta against chelsea at the emirates…

“…the lack of squad depth didn’t help them” I thought YOU said it was a great comeback! Which is it?

Apologies re that comment wasn’t meant to be more ironic rather than smarmy .

I am not quite sure why we are still on this point for we all agree that the asst ref got it wrong.

My take on it is that he was not in the position all the experts and indeed manuals state is the ideal position.

I don’t disagree at all that he should have been in the perfect position to make the call but he wasn’t. (Sorry Walter I don’t agree with your statement that he was in a perfect position to see it)

When the asst is not able to use the line across the pitch created by the last defenders body you have there surely is an extra element of doubt in their mind.

Many off sides are called when the asst isn’t in line, they are obvious when they are marginal, which this one was then by not being in the recommended and proven position compounds matters. Also they sometimes are helped when the lines created when the grounds men cuts the grass

No didn’t conclude it was a poor half from the edited highlights what gave it away was the fact that you were two nil down at half time. Or are you suggesting that type of score reflects something other than a poor half?

The point about video refs in this context is a fair point.

Two nil down to two all is a great comeback. But I maintain that Everton’s lack of squad didn’t help them. They started the game with 5 players over the age of 32 who are it seems their first choice players and the lack of depth in their squad is apparent.

Re: – being two nil down at half time – it is not where any team would want to be – but it does not in itself mean that a team played badly throughout the half. So it is not always logical to deduce that a team played well or badly based only on the score – score and quality of play may have been aligned or may not – hence, it is always better to comment after watching.

Someone summed up: 1st goal against the run of play, second goal off-side! You can only come to that by having watched the game. Also, as a purist, I’m afraid it will be a bit difficult to convince a chelsea supporter that a scoreline (alone) will never tell the whole story; what with parking the bus and all. After all, Italy won the WC 2010, and chelsea won the CL…

To be honest, I have no clue how old the other teams players, it’s hard enough to keep up with our own players, ask morinho…

But BJT I didn’t comment on how you played I said after a poor first half and it was in terms of the score line
But irrespective how about you answering my question how did you rate the first half performance?

We have had this type of conversation before – and it usually becomes cyclic.

So what you are now saying is that we had a poor score at half time?

If that is the case I am happy to accept that. What I was questioning was your apparent assumption, taken from your phraseology, that you were deducing a poor quality of play based solely on the scoreline. I take it now that you were not doing that?

I see now you’ve retreated to “…sublime AT ONE STAGE in the first half.”

Also, you come to UA (of all places!) and tell us what some commentators “described”! Sigh… How about some TV commentators that “described” Theo’s penalty shout against chelsea, @ the Emirates, as “not enough contact”! Or the ones who failed to “describe” mike dean’s celebration dance…

Mike T
BJT has a point, this is what you said;
“Great comeback from a very poor first half.”
How can you say ‘very poor first half’, and please justify use of the word ‘very’ here, when you didn’t watch?

Mike, when you have wriggled like an eel, tried to change the implied meaning of what you posted earlier, it becomes a bit disingenuous of you to insist on an answer to a question that was probably initially asked as a distraction.

Mike T
Ok, if you’re basing it on that alone, I would still say that’s harsh as a team can do well and make a simple mistake which can lead to the other team scoring. Case in point, we were going to half-time down 1 nil against Palace, before Koscielny equalised on the stroke of half-time, simply because we didn’t defend a corner properly. But if you had watched you would have noticed Palace barely got out of their own half, and it was all us. Had we gone to half-time 1 nil down someone who hadn’t watched could mistakenly come to the same conclusion based on your take of things.

Against Everton we were sloppy defending a set-piece, and the other goal we have all agreed should not have stood. FYI those were the only attempts on target Everton managed the entire 90mins; a set-piece and an offside goal. So basing your assumption on the scoreline only can be wrong, as scorelines alone can be misleading.

I have not told you what you should think, I have however explained to you the implied meaning of your earlier post – if you can’t see that – fine – your problem.

But don’t expect me to answer a question when you have denied the meaning of what you have written. You were caught out – not on anything serious – and all you had to do was say – that was not the intended meaning. Instead you went into cyclic evasion, distraction and denial.

Anyway it is still only a small point.

And, I am not going to tell you what to write, but it is unbecoming of a former financial director to resort to a childish patronizing tone.

I take your point and it really does become an individuals take on how they describe matters.

Its strange because I think the latest love in is going to be Everton.
As I said the radio commentary talked about them being sublime and when I was thinking back I couldn’t recall them having a hatful of chances.
I watched their game against Leicester and thought it interesting how they lost the lead twice and I will watch with interest of course what happens when we play them next Saturday and in particular if they dominate us in the same way as the Guardian say they dominated you.

I lost count as to the number of times I clarified the meaning of my words. Its just you love to read mine, at it seems others comments in a way that suits your argument.

Here’s what I said again and in full context.

Great comeback from a very poor first half. Celebrate the point. It could, and from a position of two down, should have been worse

Read it as you want but I can assure you I was and still do think that being 2 nil down has to be described as very poor at that point and pulling back to 2-2 is a great comeback. But I guess you disagree with the great comeback thing as well

When you admitted that you did not see the match – but posted the line you have repeated above, I pointed out that it may or may not be correct to assume the quality of play from the score alone. I was not making a point that your assumption was wrong – only when unsupported it could be wrong and therefore was not a logical or sensible comment.

From here you went into cyclic mode, but clarified – no!

So Mike, after many posts – there is no point going over everything again, on what is only a small point of logic.

But – if you want a new debate – how can you be a relative (undefined inlaw or outlaw) and a neutral at the same time? 🙂