jacktripper - Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in)

Sure there has...

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything...

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?

You might want to take a look at nicks record if you actually believe he wasn't matched against anyone with wrestling credentials... I almost have to wonder if you're trolling a bit

2006 - he fights Sean Sherk and loses.

He beats Gomi - who is not a great wrestler by any stretch of the imagination - then fights no more elite wrestlers until GSP in 2013.

jacktripper - Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in)

Sure there has...

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything...

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?

You might want to take a look at nicks record if you actually believe he wasn't matched against anyone with wrestling credentials... I almost have to wonder if you're trolling a bit

2006 - he fights Sean Sherk and loses.

He beats Gomi - who is not a great wrestler by any stretch of the imagination - then fights no more elite wrestlers until GSP in 2013.

So I guess it's closer to 7.

Diaz fought in half a dozen or so promotions in that time period which completely invalidates whatever point you attempted to make about being "pushed" by a promotion though

jacktripper - Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in)

Sure there has...

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything...

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?

You might want to take a look at nicks record if you actually believe he wasn't matched against anyone with wrestling credentials... I almost have to wonder if you're trolling a bit

2006 - he fights Sean Sherk and loses.

He beats Gomi - who is not a great wrestler by any stretch of the imagination - then fights no more elite wrestlers until GSP in 2013.

So I guess it's closer to 7.

Diaz fought in half a dozen or so promotions in that time period which completely invalidates whatever point you attempted to make about being "pushed" by a promotion though

He was a marquee fighter for each and Strikeforce pushed him hard.

It seems like your argument changed from "Nick has fought wrestlers!" to "oh but... different promotions".

In todays mma, fighters don't give it there all, they put winning above everything, and showmanship is the LAST thing a fighter in todays mma worries about.

Sakuraba, he'd always give it his all and literally came to tears when he got injured and couldn't fight Wanderlei.

When in top position, he could've made an attempt to make it appear he was being active and just rode out being in top position, but nope, not Sakuraba. Sakuraba would grab your legs, run around in circles, he'd mongolian chop you, he'd cartwheel into your guard, he'd jump stomp into your guard, he'd run and side kick you in the face landing in guard.

He exceeded the expectations of a fighter, he was a fighter 100% by definition, but he also had his showmanship, which is something that cannot be measured and is lost in todays mma.

jacktripper - Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in)

Sure there has...

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything...

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?

This thing again. Well, though I would be the first to admit Pride could have exercised a little more tact the Mario/Donkey Kong thing, there is not a history of portraying black people as apes in Japan. It doesnt make it "right" per se but there's your context at the same time too. Also, it was well within keeping in Sak's fun and goofy entrances. And historical discrimination aside, does Randleman not have the build of a silverback? Is his vertical leaping abilities not animal like (in the complimentary fashion)? Again, not that its free from criticism but i dont think it had the "subhuman" intent either.

Yes, the extra round thing was def shady, just as i dont agree with the Royler stoppage. However, that was hardly a slam dunk for Mezger pre-extra round and this is Pride's fault but since it was a GP match, in the event of a draw, what would they do? And was it that controversial to score that a draw? Cant remember too if the 10kg rule was in place? Mezger was def that much bigger than Sak.

Yes I'm sure it was a tribute to the noble silverback gorilla when they flashed monkey and banana graphics on the screen during randleman a ring entrance while sak entered the ring dressed as Mario... I'm sure that was the intent, we know how gorillas are known for their vertical leap after all

And your claim that there is no history of racism in Japan is sadly ignorant and self serving

In todays mma, fighters don't give it there all, they put winning above everything, and showmanship is the LAST thing a fighter in todays mma worries about.

Sakuraba, he'd always give it his all and literally came to tears when he got injured and couldn't fight Wanderlei.

When in top position, he could've made an attempt to make it appear he was being active and just rode out being in top position, but nope, not Sakuraba. Sakuraba would grab your legs, run around in circles, he'd mongolian chop you, he'd cartwheel into your guard, he'd jump stomp into your guard, he'd run and side kick you in the face landing in guard.

He exceeded the expectations of a fighter, he was a fighter 100% by definition, but he also had his showmanship, which is something that cannot be measured and is lost in todays mma.

Funny how you disrespect every fighter in mma today and I'm the one called a hater

In todays mma, fighters don't give it there all, they put winning above everything, and showmanship is the LAST thing a fighter in todays mma worries about.

Sakuraba, he'd always give it his all and literally came to tears when he got injured and couldn't fight Wanderlei.

When in top position, he could've made an attempt to make it appear he was being active and just rode out being in top position, but nope, not Sakuraba. Sakuraba would grab your legs, run around in circles, he'd mongolian chop you, he'd cartwheel into your guard, he'd jump stomp into your guard, he'd run and side kick you in the face landing in guard.

He exceeded the expectations of a fighter, he was a fighter 100% by definition, but he also had his showmanship, which is something that cannot be measured and is lost in todays mma.

Funny how you disrespect every fighter in mma today and I'm the one called a hater

You guys are really blinded by your infatuation

You've got me twisted bro.

I respect all fighters, I don't bash any of them. I may critique them, but I don't bash. By all means though, give me examples of how you formulated this opinion of me.

By the way, on this thread, you have been disrespectful to Sakuraba, I haven't been disrespectful to any fighters. Looking forward hearing how I'm disrespectful to fighters from you.

jacktripper - Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in)

Sure there has...

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything...

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?

This thing again. Well, though I would be the first to admit Pride could have exercised a little more tact the Mario/Donkey Kong thing, there is not a history of portraying black people as apes in Japan. It doesnt make it "right" per se but there's your context at the same time too. Also, it was well within keeping in Sak's fun and goofy entrances. And historical discrimination aside, does Randleman not have the build of a silverback? Is his vertical leaping abilities not animal like (in the complimentary fashion)? Again, not that its free from criticism but i dont think it had the "subhuman" intent either.

Yes, the extra round thing was def shady, just as i dont agree with the Royler stoppage. However, that was hardly a slam dunk for Mezger pre-extra round and this is Pride's fault but since it was a GP match, in the event of a draw, what would they do? And was it that controversial to score that a draw? Cant remember too if the 10kg rule was in place? Mezger was def that much bigger than Sak.

Yes I'm sure it was a tribute to the noble silverback gorilla when they flashed monkey and banana graphics on the screen during randleman a ring entrance while sak entered the ring dressed as Mario... I'm sure that was the intent, we know how gorillas are known for their vertical leap after all

And your claim that there is no history of racism in Japan is sadly ignorant and self serving

Lol, dude. I said something specific about black people portrayed as apes in Japan (as opposed to the west) and that gets somehow twisted to me saying that there is no history of racism in Japan at all and then go on to use the words "sadly ignorant" and "self serving" in the same sentence.

jacktripper - Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in)

Sure there has...

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything...

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?

This thing again. Well, though I would be the first to admit Pride could have exercised a little more tact the Mario/Donkey Kong thing, there is not a history of portraying black people as apes in Japan. It doesnt make it "right" per se but there's your context at the same time too. Also, it was well within keeping in Sak's fun and goofy entrances. And historical discrimination aside, does Randleman not have the build of a silverback? Is his vertical leaping abilities not animal like (in the complimentary fashion)? Again, not that its free from criticism but i dont think it had the "subhuman" intent either.

Yes, the extra round thing was def shady, just as i dont agree with the Royler stoppage. However, that was hardly a slam dunk for Mezger pre-extra round and this is Pride's fault but since it was a GP match, in the event of a draw, what would they do? And was it that controversial to score that a draw? Cant remember too if the 10kg rule was in place? Mezger was def that much bigger than Sak.

Yes I'm sure it was a tribute to the noble silverback gorilla when they flashed monkey and banana graphics on the screen during randleman a ring entrance while sak entered the ring dressed as Mario... I'm sure that was the intent, we know how gorillas are known for their vertical leap after all

And your claim that there is no history of racism in Japan is sadly ignorant and self serving

The racism wasn't institutionalized black slavery upon which half a nation was built, so there's that.

In America we use these kinds of symbols all that time and they are not considered insulting as long as they don't cross certain lines which are almost all cultural and depend on our culture's particular history of oppression which is quite different from Japan's.

jacktripper - Has there ever been a fighter more pushed by his promotion?

Takada was literally the pride figurehead and sak was thei premiere fighter from takada dojo (not to mention all the fixed fights takada was involved in)

Sure there has...

Nick Diaz by Strikeforce, Kimbo by EliteXC - they were spoon fed tailor made opponents.

Until quite recently Michael Bisping by the UFC, also Belfort to a degree.

Can you give an example of anything remotely close to sak being portrayed as Mario vs randleman being cast as a subhuman ape by a promotion?

How about extra rounds being tacked on when bispong was losing a decision?

Anything...

Oh I'm sorry I thought you meant the actual fights. Hype is a little different - of course the Japanese hyped their only top quality fighter.

I thought you meant actually pushing a fighter through favorable match ups, like giving Nick Diaz no wrestlers for six years or putting Kimbo up against guys with glass jaws, That seems a lot more like pushing than making Saku fight legitimate opponents.

Are you talking about the Mezger fight? Because I would hardly say Mezger was owed a victory at all. How about the stand ups between Belfort and Johnson?

This thing again. Well, though I would be the first to admit Pride could have exercised a little more tact the Mario/Donkey Kong thing, there is not a history of portraying black people as apes in Japan. It doesnt make it "right" per se but there's your context at the same time too. Also, it was well within keeping in Sak's fun and goofy entrances. And historical discrimination aside, does Randleman not have the build of a silverback? Is his vertical leaping abilities not animal like (in the complimentary fashion)? Again, not that its free from criticism but i dont think it had the "subhuman" intent either.

Yes, the extra round thing was def shady, just as i dont agree with the Royler stoppage. However, that was hardly a slam dunk for Mezger pre-extra round and this is Pride's fault but since it was a GP match, in the event of a draw, what would they do? And was it that controversial to score that a draw? Cant remember too if the 10kg rule was in place? Mezger was def that much bigger than Sak.

Yes I'm sure it was a tribute to the noble silverback gorilla when they flashed monkey and banana graphics on the screen during randleman a ring entrance while sak entered the ring dressed as Mario... I'm sure that was the intent, we know how gorillas are known for their vertical leap after all

And your claim that there is no history of racism in Japan is sadly ignorant and self serving

The racism wasn't institutionalized black slavery upon which half a nation was built, so there's that.

In America we use these kinds of symbols all that time and they are not considered insulting as long as they don't cross certain lines which are almost all cultural and depend on our culture's particular history of oppression which is quite different from Japan's.

^ Case in point: the recent controversy over the rising sun gi that GSP wore from Hayabusa. To most North Americans, they didnt have any idea what it meant or stood for but to Koreans or other Asian countries colonized by Japan, it obviously means something.

Again, i never said the Donkey Kong thing was "right," but it sure doesnt mean what Tripper wants it to mean in Japan. Sak also mentioned that he thought Wand looked like a gorilla man comic book character. Wand is probably part black but i seriously doubt Sak meant it in the way that Europeans do when they throw banana peels out on the field. Im sure Tripper probably wants it to mean the same thing though.

Anyhow, enough about this...........more about Sak and his Recently, there's always threads that come up about best sub/bjj/non-bjj sub guys in MMA and it boggles me that Aoki doesnt get mentioned in the sub/bjj category and that Sak is hardly mentioned in the non-bjj sub discussion.

I think it has to be between Hughes and Sak that were the best subgrapplers that didnt come from BJJ.

There was also an interview with Chael a few weeks back talking about the diff between wrestling and wrestling in MMA. He also mentioned that single legs dont really work in MMA. They def have not been a staple in MMA like the double but things often do go back and forth between doubles and singles in transition though I believe Chael did go into the transition part of a td. However, Sak was mentioned in the thread as he is probably the only famous example of a single being one of a top fighter's go to td. Would this still work today? I think Randy did a low single on James Toney though not the best example of tdd.

Randy and Chael never had slick low single leg wrap-arounds like Saku.Jees,nobody pulled or came close to an attack like that,before,or,since.Really crazy stuff @ Pride before headkicks/knees made it a risk move.

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