Sunday, June 1, 2014

Dr. Garry Nolan Talks Ata, Starchild Skull and Science

The Atacama specimen

Dr. Garry Nolan is a geneticist at the Stanford School of Medicine. He is among the mainstream scientists showing a willingness to review evidence of what some believe to be an extraterrestrial presence, as demonstrated in his work on Dr. Steven Greer's Atacama Humanoid and the late Lloyd Pye's Starchild Skull. Whatever we may make of Greer and his tactics, his inclination to include Nolan in the examination of Ata should be considered a most relevant and interesting turn of events within the UFO community. In an effort to keep up with the ongoing saga, I recently emailed Dr. Nolan and asked if he would field a few questions for a blog post. He agreed.According to his Stanford profile, Dr. Nolan earned a Ph.D. in genetics from Stanford and a B.S. in genetics from Cornell. He is a professor of microbiology and immunology at Baxter Laboratory and a member of the Stanford Cancer Institute. He was appointed to the Board of External Experts of the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute of the National Institutes of Health, and the director of the Stanford NHLBI of the NIH. His honors include an Outstanding Research Achievement from Nature Publishing Group, a Burrough's Wellcome Investigator's Award in Pharmacology and multiple awards from the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.The gist of our email exchanges follow. I wrote:How did you become involved with Dr. Greer and the examination of the Atacama specimen? Please describe the circumstances and arrangements.I interpret from your published statements concerning Ata that you find the specimen somewhat curiously interesting from a variety of perspectives, but at this point you are convinced it was human and have no reason to suspect it represents anything of extraterrestrial origin. Is that correct?Could you please describe where you go from here? How do you see genetic research shaping and contributing to investigation of alleged extraterrestrials, Bigfoot and related circumstances?Nolan explained:

We are writing for publication now on ATA. I have brought in some very high level experts to help me assemble and mine the genome for results that might explain the morphology of the specimen. The specimen has interesting mutations, but all mainstream genetics. Nothing more can be said at this point as we are going to let the academic review take its course.

Origin of my interest: When a friend of mine let me know about Greer’s specimen I thought "well, I can analyze that — if there’s DNA I can work on it". So, literally on a whim I emailed Greer and offered my help, and he answered very shortly thereafter. We met when he was out here in California and I learned about his movie Sirius (for which I agreed to be filmed). I was honored he trusted me to help. I arranged to have a dissecting microscope delivered to the site in Barcelona where the specimen resided along with instructions from Dr. Lachman (pediatric bone specialist here at Stanford who "wrote the book" on bone growth disorders in neonates and young children) on what angles he would need for the Xrays to best diagnose the condition of the specimen. The rest is part of the movie.

As to the utility of DNA I am ambivalent. It’s so easy to contaminate DNA or misinterpret the results. I worry about this being done in the hands of other people who start out with a conclusion and interpret everything in the context of that conclusion. What do we learn then? You can’t be "just a skeptic", but you also can’t start with a predetermined belief.

As to the general application of how to use DNA forensic evidence for exploration of claimed sightings, skeletons, or interactions – buyer beware. It is so easy to be tricked by DNA analysis that it does need the hands of people with the right experience to get it technically correct. And the computation required is not "desktop" — you have to be able to access databases of human allelic variants, ethnic variation in DNA, etc. to be able to put results in context.

Inquiring about circumstances surrounding the Starchild Skull, I wrote:

Would you please describe how you first came in contact with Lloyd Pye and subsequently involved with the Starchild Project?

Lloyd Pye and the Starchild Skull

If I understand your previous comments correctly, you are extremely confident that suppositions are premature that suggest the Starchild Skull to be somehow linked to extraterrestrials. You did find aspects of the skull somewhat interesting, however, and informed Starchild Project researchers that protein sequence testing would potentially be a much more practical pursuit (than DNA sequencing) for several reasons. Those reasons included a higher likelihood of correctly establishing provenance and avoiding issues of sample contamination. Is that correct, and would you please comment on such circumstances?

Nolan replied:

I reached out to Dr. Pye originally, and subsequently met him in Manchester, UK, around my offer to examine the skull (after looking online at his evidence). He was very forthcoming and brought the specimen here to Stanford (I paid for the cost of his visit). We had it examined with two high end instruments and by a noted bone specialist. While the skull is certainly unusual (no one can deny that), it also did not fall under the provenance of any known genetic syndromes (despite the skeptics online) according to local experts. So I think the Starchild group’s statements about that latter point are credible.

However, that doesn’t mean it’s not a NEW, purely human, syndrome that affected the skull structure of the deceased. According to the bone specialist he still felt it fell within the realm of "unusual, but still human". He didn’t rule anything out, but he also didn’t suggest "not human". Interpret that last statement with all due care.

Your summary of my online statements about the Starchild Skull (so far) is fair. Their (paraphrased) reply to points were essentially "We thank Dr. Nolan, but respectfully disagree" – which I feel is sidestepping the key issue. The facts are not open to interpretation unless they want to rewrite the rules of genetics. There is no analysis available by which they can take the data they have provided me, or on the web, to make the claims they do about FoxP2. I can only guess at the reasons they want to keep up such an obviously incorrect claim.

Happy to give them room to prove their point as I am more than willing to consider alternative interpretations (I am probably more open to this than most mainstream biomedical scientists). There is no outcome I would enjoy more than the Starchild Team proving me wrong on the larger point of what they think they have. They just are not there yet — not even close with the genetics.

The problem with the Starchild claims are they are too easy with even a college class in evolutionary genetics to dismiss as overstated. Their current claims, using the available evidence, undermine their goals. And (frankly) allows less open-minded skeptics to paint reasonable scientists interested in the area with the "enthusiast" brush. That discredits the larger goal of understanding exactly what is going on with the Skull and other phenomenon. Only good science, credibly applied (and not as wishful thinking) is going to help understand putative evidence in the form of bodily remains. The Starchild team should stick to verifiable claims, and move forward with good science. As I noted, there are more nuanced ways to look at the Starchild skull that cannot be easily disputed (protein). It appears the team has accepted to investigating that suggested avenue. I am hopeful they have other orthogonal verifications planned as well. I hope the protein works out for them because any DNA result first has to pass many credibility tests regarding the huge potential for contamination the remains encountered over the years.

To be clear — I am not looking to "debunk" anyone. I am looking to get the more "incredible" claims off the table, if scientifically disproven, so the nuanced interpretations and more subtle evidence can be better examined. The answer to the whole problem of "are they here" I doubt is going to be found in the most obvious and sensational cases.

After watching the documentary, I wondered how long before someone would get to dr. garry and help him change his mind. Seems to me we are great at identifying burn victims through DNA, and putting rapists in jail through dna, and identifying the real father of a Jerry Springer guest. Funny how this dna test is still inconclusive after 2 years. Especially since the contamination statement isn't valid because dr Garry did his own test which he himself handled hmmm. Wonder if he got paid or just afraid of getting killed.

I truly hope everyone involved with the testing will be able to find plenty of useful DNA. Great article Mr. Brewer, I can't help but say it may turn out to be out of this world, barf-bag not included...Lol

Seems as if he's bounced back well from the early-on statements that it was indeed a fully grown person with a stature of less than 12"(as I recall) Those involved in the UFO field (and as a geneticist he would obviously be helpful with any Bigfoot analysis) should be grateful he's open to get involved, even at risk to his reputation.

This is ridiculous, how would they know if it was extraterrestrial if they dont even have an outside of this world specien? It could just be a link to any other race,ape or deformed subject, I think all here hope for an extraterrestrial being, well if you alk dont have one, how would you know? Please peoe the only way you would know is by having an actual being with a different DNA that did come out of space, but I highly doubt you all will ever get it, face it, we were all created by God and not extraterrestrials, its been thoisands of years that we been here and not a single specimen has been actually caught or known to exist, we still looking for otber planets and have not found one with human like race.....not one! Lol!

These anomalous remains, skeletons, pickled pixies from Peurto Rico, bigfoot doodoo, alleles from Alma etc. to me prove that the relict branches of the human family didn't die out thrillions and jillions of years ago but were the substantive direct inspiration for the whole kit and kaboodle of other races- from Orcs (neanderthals or maybe just male neanderthals) to Elves (female neanderthals? Another lost race) to pixies, gentry, siddhe, hobbits up through anthropophagous ogres to giants and trolls.

Physical cryptid humanoids long lost as a single blended strain predominated (us, with our baggage of Denisovans, Neanderthals, Habilines and Cro Magnon)

That's an interesting idea, JC, and one we'll probably have to add to the bag of possible explanations for hoaxes as the technology progresses. If memory serves, some writers reasonably established the history of Ata, but I do not recall specifics.

Look in the Bible. Genetic manipulation has been around for a long time. The Nephilim existed because of genetic manipulation done by the fallen angelic beings who took to themselves for wives the women of mankind.. http://helicon.meccahosting.com/~a000560f/nephilim.html They were the sterile offspring of the angels and human women. They did not exist after the Great Flood of Noah's day, contrary to the claims on that web page. The Great flood wiped them from existence, but their remains are being uncovered. The angels are still here, per Jude 1:6"And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,..." So these angelic beings have done all along what they do best, deceive and manipulate mankind as well as continue to try creating their own hybrid race of human beings. We are actually the first physical beings in the universe. God will perfect mankind in the restitution under the reign of our Lord Jesus Christ. Go to www.ronwyatt.com to investigate the discovery of Noah's Ark. and you will see there the other historic sites of the Bible.

Only an idiot would believe in in any kind of so-called contamination as a factor. You hold the chain of command intact during the DNA tests and that's it. It's proven not human and you mapped that knew DNA as others now do. You don't keep "Side stepping" the issue claiming your open to this and that...you prove it! Not like a sub-consciously mind programmed backwards manchuraine candidate.

As far as the human genome project being completed and us knowing how many chromosomes we have in conjunction to how they are passed along. We may know that they are there, but we are very very far from understanding the data they contain. As 95% of all DNA is junk and not even in use, just old DNA that we evolved out of but the memory is still stored, everything your forefathers did is stored in you like a living time capsule. Once we give birth to AI that can sort out this huge equation to big for any 1 man to figure out. I imagine that this AI will be able to take a sample from the mother and father and give you 20 different possible results of common mutations that your child could have. One of them will be correct, then they could mold the infant into a perfect specimen with 0 birth defect. All in all good article but gene research now is like being a doctor in the 1700 hundreds, I would not call genetics currently a viable field of knowledge yet to put any theory up against it other then it either matches human, or not human.. We just don't know enough and if it were not for computers we would still be clueless as the average piece of DNA contains enough information to wrap around the planet in a size 12 font. We are just looking for commonalities and the so called 5% active DNA that we pull from.

You know there are being similar to the one you examined in our forests. Perhaps the same ones. Pacific Northwest natives through vtha cascades have a history of experience with them. We were taught not to share with new world people.

Most probably a 3D print with added cosmetics. 3D printing was invented already in 1981 actually. Also from autopsy outlook of the body would be found on cold/ice regions. although this one was not from cold climate. I have a picture of a white plastic model of this "Atacama humanoid".

Hello, I seen the ufo hunters program on trying to identify the skull above and near the end of the show a Xray picture shows a dark long fibre just like some people report getting growing out of there skin just like cotton, - ( Morgellons disease )

Is this what is inside the half skull and is it what people report to be morgellons disease, ?This disease is quite new in our human history ive heard and some doctors dont even want to hear about it while people suffer.

Chase Klotske take has done a complete scientific study of the starchild. She and I sent the last tooth to Paleo labs in Canada. The final report is the starchild is completely human. End.of story. As the owner I am very disappointed that the starchild project ignored true scientific test. I have found out that the report of the foxp2 was fraudulently reported. The NIH never received any report from the virogist. I am horrified that the Lloyd Pye and the rest of the project team ignored.true science in order to continue with their agenda. I just trusted Lloyd completely. That was my mistake. But when I found Chase the true scientific study without an agenda could be done. Dr. Nolan I truly appreciate everything you did.

It is very dissapointing the fact that we still argue with something so obvious... When science cannot explain how a multi-mutational "human" being could have even lived and existed, we are trying to label it whatever we like. Let's say they find a mantis genome on atakama body, would they call it a very mutated mantis? If they find elephant genome, would they call it a very mutated elephant? Just because the obvious doesn't fit their "logical" brain and mainstream thinking (sometimes their agendas...), should we abolish the real facts? Nothing said about the story, how it was found and when, nothing about the CT scans and the internal organs. Nothing about its real age (as it was found from its epiphyseal plates). It is also very strange how different scientists have come to different conclusions about this body. Who changed or missinterpreted the data? Why did they spent so much time to find out (or better come up with) that it is a "very mutated" human being? Why should we listen to Dr.Nolan and not to Dr.Greer or Dr.Smith who made the first analysis and also contacted other specialists too? Just because it is not what we expect? And lets say it was the only evidence and the only body found all over earth so, ok, we cannot have a conclusion about: Wake up! There are hundreds of different humanoid bodies found in so many different countries that it is ridiculous even to talk about it. The fact that mainstream media don't talk and people don't know about them, doesn't mean they don't exist. Those who want to search can find plenty of evidence even from historical sources. But why bother... media, politicians and scientists always say the truth... Just for those who like to search into, look for the mummies of different alien bodies found in Nazca Peru (2017), that were analysed by a group of scientists (and found the mummies are not related to any known human being). Of course we can label them as very very mutated humans, flies, snakes or dogs... it is only a matter of every individuals' point of view. Eyes, ears and mouths wide shut everybody: Humans are still sleeping...

"Here’s how I see it: Empathy is the ability to respect and maybe even understand another’s point of view, revealing larger truths about ourselves and others. Exploitation is the use of another’s experience for personal gain. Empathy requires self-awareness. Exploitation is marked by self-interest. Empathy is about deepening connections. Exploitation, about filling one’s pockets, literal or figurative."