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Friday, December 10, 2010

APOSTASY WATCH

I'm starting a new series of posts that will be on going, so long as this blog continues, called "Apostasy Watch" and I'll be posting things that show the great falling away.

2Thes 2:1-17

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given useverlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

Here is the video that made me decide now is the time to sound the warning in earnest! Perhaps I have waited much longer than I should have.

In the beginning of the tribulation, the the world church and the one world government will serve as the persecutors of those who newly come to Christ in the tribulation period. In the end the gov't turns on the Harlot though...

As I watch more and more tumble into the LS direction, it appears as if the left behind LS gang (and those of similar mindsets) will be part of the militant arm of the one world harlot church.

Maxims:1) The severest persecution of the true church of Christ always came from that which held a form of religion, and professed some form of faith in Christ.

2) The true church of today has received little persecution because the apostate visible church is too lukewarm to perform their natural duty of persecution.

You said 2) The true church of today has received little persecution because the apostate visible church is too lukewarm to perform their natural duty of persecution.

I don't entirely know why, but that is a CHILLING thought.

I have to admit that I've heard people claim that many different things are the great indicator of the great apostasy... and I've tired of people crying wolf about whatever ticks them off....

LS theology is offensive to me... bet you'd never guess... so is "Charismania"... LS however fits the bill for "the" apostasy because of how it works with other religions so well.

I think all error will collide and work together... but some things are more obviously integral to the result than others. Charismania will no doubt help dull people's discernment of true works of God, but LS will dull people's discernment of true Christians.

I expect those who would question my stance on the video above to ask something like this -

"What is it about helping people that doesn't fit with 'your' Christianity?"

I've offered my Pastor this answer for him to evaluate - If God has burdened me to help someone then I must only help that person using the resources He provides. I must not, I dare not, partner with Satan or his servants to "help" those in need.

Some people will call the doctrine of the Pre-Tribulation translation of the Church as escapism. As glad as I am that I won't be here for the period of Jacob's Trouble, I am sad for those who will be left behind. How horrible is it that God must pull out His agency of mercy and grace from this world so that people can see what it is really like in a world without Him. I'm not being dramatic when I say it breaks my heart.

OH I forgot to land the plane about how LS works well with other religions... sorry.

Because LS looks at our works to see the reality of our faith, followers of this system are eager victims of apostasy. They are compelled to "do good" and not to forsake people in need... instead of being trained up to quietly rest in Christ and only move as He moves, to only give what (and all of what) He has provided for His work.

They cannot rest, or wait, because periods of reduced productivity affect their testimony and assurance... so they are trained to be eager victims always rushing ahead.

Though most of what professes to be Christianity is not, LS confuses the judgment by discerning with pure natural sense (by what they see). They must ignore the guidance of the Spirit and communion of heart, in favour of that which they can openly see, because they themselves are dead in the Spirit.

We are required to judge and make judgments about the salvation of others, but we are also commanded to judge with righteous judgment (John 7:24). No matter what else we see, that righteous judgment can only come by the Spirit of God.

I think the relationship between LS and the global supra religion is kind of complex. LS alone does not get a person there. It must be mixed with other elements that would fall under eschatology rather than soteriology.

My thoughts on the matter are unrefined at this time. But preliminarily I would say that an LS gospel can indeed fit the supra religion whereas a grace gospel really can't. At least, I haven't figured out how it could. But I do think it is bigger than that.

It should also be borne in mind, in the interest of fairness, that many if not most of the apostasy watchdogs are LS themselves. One or two of them are even post trib. So the lines are not that cleanly drawn.

As far as the supra religion of anti Christ, what has to go (and has not yet done so in many LS camps) is the cross of Christ for eternal salvation because mankind is supposed to be focused on fixing this world themselves, here and now.

What I do see happening among some of the LS churches is more an abandonment of Dispensational eschatology as either wrong or not all that relevant to what the church is supposed to be doing now. It is the doctrines of Dominionism that are most likely to get someone sucked in to the anti Christ mindset. Witness Rick Warren.

I think the LS churches that keep a Dispensational eschatology (at least one that holds a pending Tribulation period, if not an imminent rapture) in practice as well as theory are not going to go along with the new transformative thinking.

But it does seem that an LS gospel gives openings to go in that direction that a grace gospel seems to withhold, at least as far as I can tell.

On another note, I find myself in a more or less constant state of amazement at all that is happening today to bring this thing together. I guess I never really thought I would live to see this much of it. But it is a very powerful, seductive message and I can see how one would need to be saved and have one's head on straight to be able to resist it.

What I do see happening among some of the LS churches is more an abandonment of Dispensational eschatology as either wrong or not all that relevant to what the church is supposed to be doing now. It is the doctrines of Dominionism that are most likely to get someone sucked in to the anti Christ mindset. Witness Rick Warren.

I think you're bang on there!! Get people to stop looking for and anticipating our Blessed Hope, and focus on changing the world into our view of Christ's Kingdom.

One thing that truly confuses me about some assemblies, and really John MacArthur, is how they claim some form of Dispensationalism but hold to the LS gospel. I don't know how that is even possible... it takes more thinking power than I have to wrap my mind around it.

I can sympathize to a point with the various views of the timing of the translation of the Church (I prefer this phrase to the "Rapture" title.. .but that's just me.. and I've often used the title Rapture as well...)... but can't figure out how you keep Dispensationalism only in part....

One thing that truly confuses me about some assemblies, and really John MacArthur, is how they claim some form of Dispensationalism but hold to the LS gospel. I don't know how that is even possible... it takes more thinking power than I have to wrap my mind around it.

I used to wonder about that too. I have since stopped wondering about is as it gave me a headache.

This is from "Miller's Church History" written in the mid 1800's and is speaking of the 4th-5th century. Little has changed....

Rites and Ceremonies

The more general adoption of Christianity, as will easily be imagined, was followed by an increase of splendour in all that concerned the worship of God, so-called. Churches were built and adorned with greater cost; the officiating clergy were attired in richer dresses, the music became more elaborate, and many new ceremonies were introduced. And these usages were then justified on the same ground that we find the high church party justifying the extraordinary rites and ceremonies of the present day.* It was intended to recommend the gospel to the heathen by ceremonies which might surpass those of their old religion. Multitudes were drawn into the church then, as they are now, without any sufficient understanding of their new position, and with minds still possessed of heathen notions, and corrupted by heathen morality. Even in the earliest days of Christianity we find irregularities in the church at Corinth through the unforgotten practices of the heathen. The burning of candles in daylight, incense, images, processions, lustrations, and innumerable other things, were introduced in the fourth and fifth centuries. For, as Mosheim observes, "While the good-will of the Emperors aimed to advance the christian religion, the indiscreet piety of the bishops obscured its true nature and oppressed its energies, by the multiplication of rites and ceremonies. "**

Basically, the visible church was full of heathen in the time written about, and for similar reasons is at the same place today.

KevIn case you like the quote from JC Ryle here is another from a book he wrote that contains the same quote you linked here: It is titled Knots Untied and can be read free online. On pg 273-238 he says:

(7) In the next place, let me warn men not to be shaken by those who say that all visible Churches are necessarily corrupt, and that no man can belong to them without peril to his soul. There never have been wanting men of this kind, men who have forgotten that everything must be imperfect which is carried on by human agency, and have spent their lives in a vain search after a perfectly pure Church. Members of all Churches must be prepared to meet such men, and especially members of the Church of England. Fault-finding is the easiest of all tasks. There never was a system upon earth, in which man had anything to do, in which faults, and many faults, too, might not soon be found. We must expect to find imper fections in every visible Church upon earth. There always

238 KNOTS UNTIED.

were such in the New Testament Churches. There always will be such now. There is only one Church without spot or blemish. That is the one true Church, the body of Christ, which Christ shall present to His Father in the last great day.

I don’t want to even post a link, you can do a search with the below to find a link to the sermon preached by her pastor.

Compare:“It will cost you everything” Steve Lawson

“it is the gift of God.” The Apostle Paul through the inspiration of God.

What cost is a gift? Nothing!A cost implies that there is an inherent value associated, whereas that which is lost on account of Christ has no inherent value, which is why Paul counts it as dung (Phil 3:8). This ‘cost you everything’ mindset is FROM one who still places value in these things, TO those who still place value in these things. It is a case of the blind leading the blind, neither have learned Christ.

Steve Lawson does not present, nor know the terms of peace with Christ, and because of that will personally “glorify God in his own destruction” that he so loudly proclaims for others.

In the case of Blessed, as in the case of so many others, her life is in her church. That is not where it is to be found!

@ Lee*sigh* you do not even come close to knowing me. This is where you would do well to stick to scripture and not your feelings.This is a road I am not going down with you again...I quoted YOUR source, I didnt make it up myself.Believe me, I see my church with all her faults, I am a sinner among many in that group of people and there are many tares among the wheat. The Lord has His elect in there are He has called me to salvation as well as to be part of the visible church. Did you not agree with what JC said?

Obviously there are elements of truth in what Ryle said, yet we both know that if you read further you find that what you quoted was only a prelude to his recommendation of the church of England. Would you consider his recommendation of that church 400 years ago when it imprisoned Bunyan? Would you consider his recommendation of that church today as they are ordaining all kinds of weird species as priests? In the time when Ryle was in it during the Philadelphian period, he was an agent of God to hold it to some form of accountability, and lo and behold for a short time his influence was heeded. For this he could have a good opinion of it. Fast forward him to today. Could he recommend today’s Anglican church and its dead forms? Absolutely not! Could he recommend the Anglican church in the times of imprisonment of dissenters? No! Now check out your own church, could he recommend someone sitting under the confounded preaching of one such as Steve Lawson? Absolutely not! For as you see, Mr. Lawson preaches exactly the opposite of the gospel of Christ.

Now to address this, “let me warn men not to be shaken by those who say that all visible Churches are necessarily corrupt, and that no man can belong to them without peril to his soul.”

I will remind you that the Bible prophesies of just such a time (which puts brother Ryle at odds with the Book), and that time is fast approaching when ALL visible churches will be corrupt. He can be forgiven for his lack of foresight, just like those of us who don’t know the specific events that will culminate the end of the Millennial Reign, but those who are living in that time will know as they see it approaching.

I cannot nor will not say that ALL churches are ENTIRELY corrupt. What I can say is that all churches from the beginning of time have been subject to corruption, some more and some less, but NONE were ever entirely FREE of corruption. Your church is as corrupt as Rick Warren’s, it is just that the error comes from an opposing direction. Your pastor preaches a corrupted anti-gospel, and like those in any cult who might eventually be saved, those who are saved in your building will be saved in spite of his work, not because of it. Is your church ENTIRELY corrupt? That would only be known by the reaction of those in it to someone actually preaching the gospel there. What continues to baffle me is you drive past so many churches to get to this one and yet have such determined willingness to sit under his false teaching. You have sense enough to drive past the others, the question is why don’t you have enough sense to drive past one more?

Do you see in scripture where believers are going to be called to leave the visible church? I mean any gathering including house church?

I am thinking of the scripure saying the gates of Hell will not prevail over the church and the one in Hebrews about not forsaking the assembling of youselves even MORE SO as the day draws near. See, I agree that there is corruption in the church and I know that as long as man has anything to do with the gathering sin will be prevalent. I just do not see where we are called to abandon all visible meetings and the institution of assembly with elders and deacons.

@ Lee There are many different things going on in the church that I am in that I know is the work of the Lord. I know there may be a time that I have to leave. For now it is where He has me for His own purpose. I am not blind.

You continue to confuse HIS church with YOUR church. The gates of hell will not prevail against HIS church, but the gates of hell have already prevailed over YOUR church, that is why the pastor preaches the anti-gospel. Throughout history, the gates of hell have OFTEN prevailed over the visible church (From within through Constantine, from without through Nero, or even consider Stalin’s Russia), but they have never prevailed over the invisible church (God’s people wherever they may have been sentenced to). The devil’s greatest triumphs over the visible church though have ALWAYS come from the inside, and it is no different today.

In Rev 3:20 Christ is standing outside the door of the last of the church in the last of the church periods. He is outside, because the inside is vomitable to Him (vs 16.), and they have no room for Him inside.

Here is the last call to those who belong to the invisible church to come out of the visible church.

Rev 18:4-5 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her , my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Why? Because it is entirely corrupt. That is the end of the church. We are just before the end, where the corruption of the visible church is not quite ENTIRE, but it is approaching it, and one must be prepared to stand alone with Christ outside the visible church. What you are attending is in no way representative of a fellowship of believers. It is simply modern day protestant popery.

John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

That is where you are wrong. I do not confuse it....His Church consists of members of that church....some of the members of the Church are fellowshipping in that church.

He said, Lord I believe, and he worshiped him. Jesus said "For judgement I came into this world that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind".

This is why I was asking Kevin about the scripture.....I know that you take scripture (as well as quotes) out of context and shoot it at someone like it backs up what you say....you are guilty of doing what you accuse others of doing.

So I ask you Kevin, (and anyone else that is reading along) is this what you believe and will teach?

"some of the members of the Church are fellowshipping in that church."

O really? Haven't you said over and over that you are unable to tell who were saved? Prove your ARE! Name some from your church that ARE saved, and throw in a few from the leadership. Give us a decent count.

Someone who goes to church to fellowship with people who she is not sure that any of them are saved, and have her mind filled with nonsense of a man who she does not know if he is saved. For all she knows she could be going to a building where none of them are actually saved. And THAT is supposed to be fellowship with the saints???

The reality is that this is a cult mentality just like the JW's, each one faithfully attending their place of worship and wondering who might be doing well enough to go to heaven, with each one believing they themselves are in a better position than most.

2 Cor 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Me too, but I have learned that His Bride is found more in places that people refuse to look, than that they intend to look. This has got to be the best of examples.

Quote from "War and Grace":I am sure very few have learned in school that among the last words [before his execution]of Joachim von Ribbentrop, Hitler's foreign minister, were, "I place all my confidence in the Lamb who made atonement for my sins. May God have mercy on my soul." He then turned to Gerecke and said, "I'll see you again."

Quote from "War and Grace":I am sure very few have learned in school that among the last words [before his execution]of Joachim von Ribbentrop, Hitler's foreign minister, were, "I place all my confidence in the Lamb who made atonement for my sins. May God have mercy on my soul." He then turned to Gerecke and said, "I'll see you again."

Blessed, I sent your comment directly to Jan. This is from her. I had asked her if she thought I should allow the post - because I really had no time to read the links.

I just got back from work and finished dinner myself. It's up to you Kev. They are about the Nazi war criminal that Look Up brought up. The first one links to a Presbyterian church, the second to a Lutheran church, so that may affect your decision. I didn't read them yet, to see if the articles themselves are good. I will do that later. Probably tomorrow. If you elect not to publish her comment, then please tell her you forwarded it to me and I said thanks.

Blessed, I sent your comment directly to Jan. This is from her. I had asked her if she thought I should allow the post - because I really had no time to read the links.

Thanks, I didnt mean for you to post the comment or the links they were just so awesome that I knew Jan would love to hear the chaplain tell the story...there is audio on the one from the church. (The other one was just an article of a man telling the story). I just didnt have another way to send it to yall so I used the comment box.