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That's fair, but I don't think it's actually disputing [UMN] on that point. Unless we actually develop the technology to travel FTL or come up with some equally impressive developments in propulsion, than it's impossible to be able to muster meaningful and useful interplanetary travel, let alone interstellar travel.

I'm not disputing it, just disagreeing with it.

I believe that developing a propulsion system that can accelerate itself and its payload at 1g for ~10 years is still very much in the realm of science fiction, but it is not nearly as far removed from the realm of possibility as e.g. FTL or wormhole travel.

It seems you and I generally agree, then. _________________

MrDrew wrote:

Can somebody give me a good reason there's not a giant statue to fret somewhere?

I understand the issue with the differences in "calculated" age where one baby would be 1 year old and the other 6 years old or whatever. But biologically, I guess I wouldn't expect the body to slow it's aging process by the same value. That is, from the viewpoint of somebody on Earth, one twin living 80 years and the other living 240 years (6x as long) simply because they are traveling at a higher speed.

Not sure if I'm explaining my difficulty understanding very clearly: For instance, again let's use the example from your article: They mention the traveling twin would be 6 years old, the stay at home twin being 10 years old. Biologically, would they be at the same point? Let's say we let this occur for 10x as long -- a 60 year old traveling twin and an 80 year old Earth twin -- are their bodies at the same biological point? Ie, close to the end of their lives?

Biologically no, they are different ages. That's the mind[screw] of Relativity.

The difficulty is that we are used to thinking that there is some standard measure of time, and that it's uniform for everybody everywhere. So, the twin on Earth and the twin traveling in space, even though they "experience" time differently, are still beholden to this mythical "objective" clock, which runs inerrantly, no matter what happens. But that's the mistake: there is no "standard, objective" measure of time.

So, while the traveling twin would be 10 "Earth" years older, he's only actually experienced 6 six years of time, as it passes in his frame of reference. He doesn't "experience" time more slowly; it actually passes more slowly (from the perspective of the Earth twin - from his perspective, it passes at the same rate that the twin on Earth experiences time passing on Earth).

The traveling twin looks, acts, and in every way is a six-year old child. The Earth twin looks, acts, and in every way is a ten-year old child.

Hopefully that at least helps. It's not an easy thing to wrap one's head around._________________

MrDrew wrote:

Can somebody give me a good reason there's not a giant statue to fret somewhere?

I understand the issue with the differences in "calculated" age where one baby would be 1 year old and the other 6 years old or whatever. But biologically, I guess I wouldn't expect the body to slow it's aging process by the same value. That is, from the viewpoint of somebody on Earth, one twin living 80 years and the other living 240 years (6x as long) simply because they are traveling at a higher speed.

Not sure if I'm explaining my difficulty understanding very clearly: For instance, again let's use the example from your article: They mention the traveling twin would be 6 years old, the stay at home twin being 10 years old. Biologically, would they be at the same point? Let's say we let this occur for 10x as long -- a 60 year old traveling twin and an 80 year old Earth twin -- are their bodies at the same biological point? Ie, close to the end of their lives?

Biologically no, they are different ages. That's the mind[screw] of Relativity.

The difficulty is that we are used to thinking that there is some standard measure of time, and that it's uniform for everybody everywhere. So, the twin on Earth and the twin traveling in space, even though they "experience" time differently, are still beholden to this mythical "objective" clock, which runs inerrantly, no matter what happens. But that's the mistake: there is no "standard, objective" measure of time.

So, while the traveling twin would be 10 "Earth" years older, he's only actually experienced 6 six years of time, as it passes in his frame of reference. He doesn't "experience" time more slowly; it actually passes more slowly (from the perspective of the Earth twin - from his perspective, it passes at the same rate that the twin on Earth experiences time passing on Earth).

The traveling twin looks, acts, and in every way is a six-year old child. The Earth twin looks, acts, and in every way is a ten-year old child.

Hopefully that at least helps. It's not an easy thing to wrap one's head around.

Got ya, yeah that's what I was taking from it, but I didn't know the body based it's aging off of how the time feels to it -- I thought, like you mention, that it was an "independent" clock that no matter what the frame of reference was, the body was going to age the same -- so even though the traveling twin only experienced 6 years, their body would age the same regardless and therefore be at the same point as a 10 year old Earth baby.

Pretty cool stuff._________________

[quote="SFPatsFan"]

Flaccomania is a genius who is an expert on literally everything he talks about so you should trust him. [/quote]

Also curious: how long until civilians are able to go space? In the near future, will the general population be able to pay money for tickets for a trip into earth orbit (and maybe beyond)? And if it were available, would anyone here be willing to go (assuming the price is reasonable for an average western world worker).

Also curious: how long until civilians are able to go space? In the near future, will the general population be able to pay money for tickets for a trip into earth orbit (and maybe beyond)? And if it were available, would anyone here be willing to go (assuming the price is reasonable for an average western world worker).