Is the unbeliever truly a seeker, or does he just want to continue living in sin?

Don’t Miss Next Week’s Blog Post Because It’ll Empower You to Answer Unbeliever’s Questions and Will Help You Avoid Arguments

The qualifier question that you just learned is the first step in engaging with an unbeliever about their God-questions.

Sometimes when you’re talking with an unbeliever, your conversation can become heated, and you find yourself in a debate.

I’m going to show you how to avoid arguments in next week’s article.

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Key Takeaways

Here’s what you learned today

1. When you’re talking with an unbeliever, it’s normal for them to give you an excuse or an objection for why they don’t believe.

2. The ultimate reason people don’t give their life to Christ is because they love the darkness more than they love the light.

3. The best way to start answering an unbeliever’s objection is to ask them the qualifier question.“If I can give you an answer to your question (or objection), is there any other reason you wouldn’t become a believer?”

Now Go Out into Your World and Be Awesome

How can you be awesome?

You’re awesome when you share Jesus with others.

Imagine you bringing up a spiritual topic with one of your friends today over a cup of coffee.

It could be the beginning of that person’s conversion story.

You can have the satisfaction of knowing that God used you in your friend’s life so they can go to heaven.

About the Author

Peter Guirguis

I'm the Technology and Social Media Manager of Calvary Chapel South Bay, a church in Gardena, California. My passion is to see people give their life to Christ both online and offline. I've created the free guide to getting thousands of Twitter followers to show ordinary people how to get extraordinary results on Twitter.

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Comments 177

This is so wrong it’s comical. I don’t believe in a god because I am a logical thinker and don’t need to make up stories or false deities to make myself feel better. To claim that we don’t believe in God because we like sin more than God is not just illogical but offensive. You seem like a relative intelligent thinker, so it surprises me that you would make such a claim.

Hi Aubtey, since I used to be an atheist, I totally understand how you feel. I’ve felt the way you do. Some atheists have found that taking a deeper look into why Christians believe in God helps them better understand where they’re coming from.

If you ask Christians why they believe in God, you might be surprised by some of the different answers you’ll receive.

Hello. I am sharing a message with some inmates in prison today and planning on sharing about Gods invitation banquet in Luke 14. When I google searched reasons why men refuse to accept Gods invitation your web site came up. God bless you in your work. I am sharing John 3 :19 with the inmates as well

Peter, I realize that you are excited about your “discovery” but, truly, I don’t think you’re correct. Yes, it’s absolutely true that there may be some non-believers that avoid belief due to its being a threat to their preferred life choices or sinful ways but I think the great majority don’t believe in that manner since, doing so presupposes that they have some belief in God.

Well, incredible as it may seem to you, there are non-believers who live their lives with a lot less sin than some who believe. In fact there may even be some who don’t live with any sin, and I’ve met quite a few. Their motivations usually have to do with loving their neighbor, doing what’s right for life on our planet, leaving a worthy legacy and such. They, too, may have existential angst, like most believers, but they deal with it successfully and by other means.

So, I think you’d gain a lot if you’d write an article addressing the fact that there are many ways to deal with our knowledge of our death, or what constitutes meaning in our lives and so forth. You’d hopefully find that there are many ways to deal with this, including both belief and non-belief, each with their own frames of reference and each quite workable to those so inclined.

Loving others as you would have them love you (I’d add, unless they have different preferences) includes understanding…truly understanding a person’s frame of reference, respecting their choices as long as their choices don’t interfere with the legal rights of anyone, and realizing that us humans having many roads that all lead to the same place and it’s not just one road that works well.

Note, too, that I’m a believer and had been, also, an atheist for more than 58 years. I chose to believe because, at this time in my life, its advantages outweigh its disadvantages. And, whether it’s “real” or not, it doesn’t matter to me since if we chose to believe something is real and there are enough people who agree, it becomes real…for us.

Thank you, HLM, for sharing your opinion and your comments here on the blog about my article. It is my opinion that the Bible specifically states that there is no person that is without sin. Therefore, I wouldn’t be able to take your suggestion about writing that article since it doesn’t fit my beliefs.

Since you already have an idea about an article, may I please ask you if you would consider writing it and posting it so that we can further understand your perspective?

Though no one is without sin, one may wonder if, immediately after Baptism, one is cleansed of all sin, yes? And, if one defines atheism as sinful, well then, by definition all non-believers have sin. Still, I meant the kinds of mortal sins that a non-believer would have and, excepting the sins of non-belief, that was what I was referring to.

Still, my other comments, regarding loving and the possibility of leading a positive life are very possible, at least from what I’ve seen. But, even theoretically, it’s very possible, excluding the sin of disbelief which, applied to a good person/atheist, wouldn’t be quite fair in the sense of my meaning.

As to writing an article, I’m very new at all of this and don’t feel equipped to do so, yet. I have, though, written lots in atheistic blogs and forums and my later writings attempt to bridge the gaps in understanding (and, I think, have done so well, in terms of how they were received). My main, simple, point is that we all have ways to deal with existential angst and, if we aren’t violating another’s legal rights or hurting life on our small planet, it’s all good. Some may attempt a holy life, while others seek meaning and legacy through good deeds motivated by love. Either way, if if works well under these conditions, it’s OK, at least by me.

Romans 6:3-4 declares, “Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

The action of being immersed in the water illustrates dying and being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures Christ’s resurrection.

I am sorry, but you said that you know quite a few that have not sinned? Well guess what all have sinned and have fallen short of the Glory of God, and if they are not believers, than they have committed a sin by rejecting Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Joseph, there is no-one walking the planet who is sin free. Even the most dedicated believers fall short of God’s perfection. Repenting for sin covers us and through prayer we transform our transgressions. I fall in love more with Jesus every day when i stand in awe of who he was and what was done on the cross for my soul. Through discovery and study i see his work in people and that opens up the door for more love and joy in my life. Keep learning and growing!!!!

You made mention of something, you wouldn’t believe not to make yourself better, why don’t you save yourself the stress of not feeling better by just believing, it will improve your health seriously. So now you see Ure the one benefiting, is it?

because people are fearful and ignorant? yeah i have no problem with feeding the worms, decomposing, giving nutrients to the soil and continuing the circle of life, if you have a problem with that, then i don’t know what to tell you except that you shouldn’t be so scared of death, its natural. death IS NOT A BAD THING, it is simply another phase. life is all about phases, birth, life, death repeat. NOT birth, life, death, paradise, end. That is ridiculous.

Your thesis sounds cute and smart but tell that to a 35 year old who is dying of terminal cancer. Or a child who was born with mental/physical deficiencies and thus robbed of ever having a normal life. Maybe if, as a normal person, with a normal lifespan, you think it’s not a big deal to just accept this idea that, well you’ve lived your life, and now it’s time to die, and turn into ‘nothing’.

Many people are not okay with that. Life is complicated and many people all around us every single day are robbed of a good and long life, and they exit this world far sooner than they ever imagined and/or deserved. So, according to you, it’s c’est la vie, and they’re just screwed?

I choose to believe in something more. Life is bigger than any one of us and/or our experiences. I think there is more to the puzzle than your simplified rationale suggests. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but quite honestly, I don’t know how you could feel at peace about it.

The beautiful thing about God’s promises are we don’t have to fear death, as Jesus has already died for us and we have eternal life. The pastor Chuck Swindal speaks about why a parent outlives a child, or why people are born sick, and some questions we just can’t answer? I have a special needs 10 year old, but her love is changing a lot of things and people? The fear of death is a huge blocker of people really living. Love overcomes fear and I think Jesus was here trying to show us a way to live with more love.. Could you imagine, as John Lennon sang about, if the entire world went to a church for just 1 hour on a Sunday and worshiped and showed love to one another, just 1 hour, on one Sunday? The world would be different????

I wasn’t hoping you’d reply to my salient points in any particular way but I was hoping you’d reply to them. My motivation is based on obtaining knowledge, new perspectives, and the like. I guess I was just expressing some disappointment as you replied by focusing on what you disagreed with while not seeming to recognize my the main thrust of my points.

Hello, this is my first time ever posting on an online blog at all though I frequently read comment sections over the years. I’m currently in the middle of a situation, to keep it short, I am trying to be a better Christian and find God again.

I have also been atheist and agnostic at times in my life but now I am here, trying to believe with my heart and give it my best. I am wondering what your opinion is regarding kind of what HLM said – even if there are atheists and such out there, if they are living a loving life, loving their neighbors, helping out the world in ways they can and essentially trying their best to live without sin, is that not ok?

Sorry if that sounds brash but I’m still in kind of a transition state right now and I’m having trouble seeing why if someone is living like this its wrong even if they don’t believe. Shouldn’t we aspire to be the best we can be with God and if others are living in such a loving way, though not believing in God, we let them live their lives peacefully as well without interjection or telling them they are wrong?

I really hope you find this comment and reply, you may not understand but this is an important time for me right now and my struggles have somehow led me to your page and this moment. I’ll be coming back to check for your thoughts and guidance periodically.

Zee, If God can do what he says he can do, and wants us to experience freedom and real joy in our lives, why would anyone want to live without him? There is not a lot of beauty in this cruel world and it’s getting colder. They say it’s the loneliest time to live ever, because of the mass social media movement. There are very few, if anyone, who walks in perfection without sin. If we are to stand in front of the lord one day, will he know you, me? Scripture doesn’t paint a warm picture if he doesn’t. It is not his rath that will change your heart, but seeing the love he has, that will make you want to follow him and know all you can about him. Love covers a multitude of sin and is the most wonderful thing we have. Hope that helps a little?

Please note that aubtey has not stated “why” the statement is illogical. Also note that they have not stated “why” they are offended. If aubtey is a logical thinker as they say, then they will qualify their position with nutrient facts rather than feelings.

By the way, the reason I am not seeming gentle or conversational in my reply is because most people that read the reply are obviously not the one who wrote the comment in the first place. I’m simply making observations so that someone who reads aubtey’s type of response will learn to find them devoid of substance.

However, aubtey, I’m curious. You bring up the point of “feeling better”. Do you really believe it is intelligent to throw such a blanket over millenia of church history? “Oh they all just made it up to make themselves feel better.” Tell me, is that your number 1 “reason”? If so, you are the crowning definition of what this article is talking about. You should know that unbelievers can’t by nature understand sin the way believers do, so I accept that. But you do have a conscience. So whenever you face a moral dilemma of some kind, think to yourself:
1. Why do I have a moral compass anyway? I’m a logical thinker!
2. Why do I have a moral compass? Oh ya, evolution put it there to keep me safe.
or
3. Why do I have a moral compass? Oh right, I was originally created in the image of God.

Aubtey,
Do you have that sin in your life that the bible spells out crystal clear? Could it be possible that your thinking is so limited, which God points out, beyond human comprehension, in your self reliance, that you are rationalizing because you are afraid to make those life changes. Much easier to keep living in sin than to turn 180 degrees and completely walk away from pleasure…..If you were put in a position where your life was at stake, someone was trying to kill you, or terminal cancer showed up, i’m thinking you would run to God???? Just a thought….

I dont believe in sin problem solved. I believe in myself and that is enough for me. Jesus will not make you a better person only you can make yourself a better person. There is no proof that Jesus was even a real dude.. I refuse to live my life here on earth in fear from the imaginary sky god. people who are religious are addicts, and crazy as hell.

You show me any hero and I will prove to you he is a bum……..There are very few people walking the planet that are truly pure and like the bum, a little digging and we see just how human and impure we actually are. The fear of the lord gets a little confusing and a healthy respect for his character, as you would want for your own dad is what is meant. The world is full of self reliant, strong willed people and not much harmony. The question is why don’t we believe? You believe George Washington lived but you never met him. Why, because it is historically documented, right? So was Jesus. I would hope you see a miracle in your life and have no way to explain it. Your choice and the beauty of free will, I happen to be lucky enough to see a miracle that I still can’t explain. Something supernatural happens when you are willing to take an honest look and open up the bible, it suddenly becomes living, and the word, that cuts through walls, bones, situations, hurt, laws, suddenly changes your life……

The fact is you don’t know! The fact is this there is creation and thus there must be a creator otherwise this is illogical! Try that with anything you have or in existence! Thus the problem many have is PRIDE! To admit they could be WRONG! We are all sinners, why is that? Why do we do this stupid stuff of self. Honestly, it’s hard but with God it makes more sense logically and personally. John 3:16

One of the most successful commanders of the flying tigers, who were uber successful, stated, you show me any hero and I will prove to you he is a bum!! There are some people walking the planet that are pure in heart and the bible talks about them, but not many. Were all bums and self serving….I had this conversation with my niece, who is a smart engineer, but skeptic about following God. Her life is upside down, as she divorced her husband, got pregnant with another engineer, and now he has been cheating all along. My question to her was, if you followed all the scriptural truth, don’t divorce, love anyway, don’t have sex out of the context of marriage, don’t be with an unbeliever, etc, etc, would your life be better? Many now are infected with STD’s??? The biblical truth, if followed through Jesus, works!!! That is the hard fact to deny……There are no guarantees, and crazy things happen, but trials are also mentioned in scripture as well. None of us have all the answers but I have yet to find a spiritual truth that doesn’t hold it’s weight in Gold…….

For every rule there’s an exception, meaning, an exception that was the better choice. Rules are good to live by but sometimes they aren’t.
For instance, there are divorces that work out well. The rule on masturbation as a mortal sin is, at least, very questionable.
The one about not having a relationship with an unbeliever belies those that did and it worked very well, not to mention (from your perspective) those that resulted in both becoming believers BECAUSE of the relationship they had.
Perhaps the simplest rules work the best, though not necessarily. The one regarding approaching life with love in one’s heart is a good one as it allows for empathy and understanding. I’ve found the rules oriented toward a humanistic perspective well spoken also. Tolerance for other’s views, as long as they don’t impinge on our legal rights, are quite workable also.

If the concept/hypothesis of the multiverse is correct there may have never been a creation as the outer universe from which our universe was spawned may have always been here, never created. It’s as least as plausible as any other idea without proof, yes?

maybe why you dont believe in Chris Jesus is your blinded by sin. well Jesus says when you become a christian your a new creation! your old self is dead and your a new believer. i had some sin struggles and still to this day but when this happens tell a friend who wont judge and can encourage you threw tough times. The reason why Jesus came to earth was to pay the price/are sin. he didint have to die on the cross for are sins but died so we can spend eternal life with him. then you’ll experience how life was destined by God.

Aubtey, you might be an exception to the rule but you can’t disprove the rule with the exception. Asking someone to be accountable, especially in today’s culture, can be the biggest turn off to them. People often think that that accountability will convict them but what they don’t understand is that it’s God’s grace that frees us from the condemnation of sin. It’s through love for him and a desire to glorify him for all that he is and all that he has done, that we praise him and seek to live a more ritious life. The God complex that so many people share is a huge factor also in their not wanting to believe in a higher authority. So many people just want to be their own God and decide what their truth is and decide what is moral to them. The problem is that A) when you are God then you are free to change what you decide is moral at any time, B) when you do wrong but didn’t get caught then there is no one to be accountable to, and C) so much wisdom and understanding about the human condition found in the bible gets overlooked as well as an absence of having the Holy Spirit in your life.

there is so much wrong with this paragraph i don’t know where to start. First of all, nobody views themselves as their own “god” they view themselves as an independent entity, yes, and the power of DECISIONS is the power of LIFE. Morality is a human trait, its simply a way to keep yourself in check. If you think you are above others, you will commit atrocities, every evil leader in the world has done this, all “god” does is keep you in check, by way of fear. You may believe in heaven and paradise, but your bottom line motivator is fear of the afterlife. When moral people do wrong they hold themselves accountable, immorality is not cured by religion, it is cured by understanding.

This is all bullshit, subjective interpretation of why people reject Jesus. I grew up in the church (assemblies of God) but never read the bible for myself, until about 15 yrs ago. I dedicated my life to God, was baptized in water, but as much as I prayed and read my bible, I felt empty and alone (and I suffered and still suffer from severe sleep apnea); and now, at the present time, I am questioning, not if God exists, but if God truly loves mankind as described in the bible. Do I have the right God in mind? I’m not so sure anymore. where are all the miracles of the book of Acts; why don’t we see the dead being raised, the lepers being healed, and the deaf and dumb and limbless being made whole, and all recorded on cell-phones and uploaded to “Youtube”? All sorts of other things are being recorded and uploaded to Youtube, but not the Miracles of the book of Acts. Why not?

It has been 2 years for me after a brutal divorce with dishonesty, multiple affairs, betrayal. It left me destroyed so I went back to my faith and put down all my addictions and ran to God. What I have learned is trust and prayer really work. This self reliance self will we have been taught by our parents and their parents is really a myth…….People look at the law and resent it because they cant live up to those standards. I missed it and most people do, it is the holly spirit that lives in us that changes our nature and gives us the power to walk above the law and we don’t have much taste for sin any longer. Drunkeness, lust, selfishness, greed, idolatry, dishonesty, were all part of the old me that had to die with the cross. Our nature is flesh and the spirit is the only one who can renew our minds and rid the carnal life.

Right. I would like to add that a person has to make the real choice to repent of their sins and choose to follow God, then the Holy Spirit is recieved. What some people miss, is that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, a being with a mind, emotions, and a will. Gods word is clear in the bible that he chooses us before we choose him. This is why I don’t debate with unbelievers of Christ. It is written God says in Isaiah “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked” John 3 says, “You are condemned already because you”–what?–“believed not.

Scott, you are in a Pentecostal church that is part of the a Charismatic Movement. The AoG believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit through speaking in tongues. However, they have changed doctrine to make gibberish, or Glossolalia a form of tongue and it is not. True speaking in tongues of foreign language known to Janis not seen today because we are no longer in the Apostolic age. The Apostles and their disciples were in the first century and given this gift by the Holy Spirit after the Spirit already In-dwelled in them and it was gifted to them to speak the Gospel to the nations at that time.

We don’t have that need now. We also do perform miracles everyday through medicine via breakthroughs and the Bible is translated in almost every tongue. Since the Apostles got the ball rolling we are witnesses passed down through the canon of the Bible and there is no need to witness these miracles. In fact if you see healers, etc, they are unable to cure ALL like Jesus and the Apostles did. It is demonic. As for wanting to see miracles now, Jesus even called the Pharisees a wicked generation for requiring miracles. Many of those that followed Jesus wanted to be cured or fed, they didn’t care who He was. We have faith. Through faith we are brought into a deeper relationship with Jesus and the Holy Spirit leads us there. Pray for the out pouring of the Spirit within you to bring you to this deeper relationship. My prayers are with you.

HLM, I think they call this fellowshipping……We all need fresh information and perspective…….Those exemptions to the rule…..Is God really up there calling the shots, changing things that shatter our hopes and dreams to work for a bigger purpose in the big plan? From what I see, those who live all in and not lean on their own understanding, prov. 3:5 tend to lead happier more fruitful lives in general. Now, add the LOVE thing, which Jesus so much taught and showed, look out, it changes everything!!!! The blind see, the lame walk, the addicted become sober, the liars speak the truth, and the hurt transforms instead of just transferring…..Just read Grace Walk and the author says we don’t have an obedience problem but rather a LOVE problem. Love does cover a multitude of sin…..

This is a very interesting article in that it is both informative and empowering. I deeply appreciate the thought and time put forth into your preparation. It is simplistic and yet profound. God bless you for sharing this with others.

Apart from the fact that this wasn’t quite an article, there’s a false premise which ought to be addressed. Simply put, it’s unlikely that someone who values coming to a logical over emotional belief would have just one single point on which they turn. To put the article against another belief, let’s consider the long-held belief that the sun and stars revolved on spheres around the Earth.

Had I the power the travel back to the 1500s and ask someone who thought it ridiculous to belief that an all-powerful God would be so simple minded as to put the Earth at the center of his Creation, how would our straw man respond to the question, “If I can give you an answer to your objection, is there any other reason why you wouldn’t become a believer in the truth that there are spheres moving around the Earth?”

Given the power of hindsight or both history and science classes, all your readers would have at least 10 points to argue. Therefore the question, as posed, doesn’t actually do what you think it does.

Perhaps a better question would be: “What things would have to be provable, in order for you to believe?”

Sadly, since invisible realms are inherently unprovable, you’re probably back with debate. But this gives us another confusing moment in the article. What’s wrong with debate? The Catholic Church has a long history of internal debate. Secular life is full of debate in free societies and even within enclaves of those less than free. If a thing is true, it can stand up to a full debate and prevail among the majority of freely held opinions that weigh the presented evidence.

It sounds to me as if the author is setting up his readers for a set of forthcoming excuses to not fully engage with people who show opposition, and instead to embrace an existing choir of believers as though this were proof enough of the underlying thesis. If so, this approach certainly wouldn’t pass the test of any debating society I know.

A final point: to prove that the question posed here cannot do the job as intended, reverse it and ask yourself if you’ll agree to stop believing, if Aubtey or another person puts up enough logical points that your counter-arguments cannot hold? If you answer that your faith is strong enough to withstand any questioning, then perhaps you have your answer for those whom you target with your own attempts.

Hi Jon, thank you for your comment. I can understand the way you feel. If I were in your shoes, I would feel the same way. I think the reason why you feel the way that you do is because you’re not my intended audience. The intended audience for this article is Christians, not atheists.

I thought it was an interesting alternative that you brought up. You said that I should ask, “What things would have to be provable, in order for you to believe?”

I’ve asked that question before to a number of my atheists friends and acquaintances. Most of them answer with one of two answers:

1) “I don’t know” or
2) “God would have to show up in front of me.”

Both of those answers have their own problems so it doesn’t really take us to where we want to go.

Jon, please tell me why the real reason why (please be honest) why anyone would not want to believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. To spend eternity in Heaven with Jesus, no sorrow, pain no sadness what is it here on earth that you hold so dear that you cannot bring yourself to believe in the Holy Bible and Jesus Christ.

Christians have the Bible, what do you and other people have that support your opinion that there is no GOD.

Hi. I am evangelistic by nature and choice, and have an apologetics-discussion blog. But I don’t like–not to be too pedantic about it–your approach here. First, I will grant that yes, the reason people don’t repent is because they hate God. I can grant that. Hey, the more sanctified I get personally, the more I see how depraved (deeply rebellious) my own heart is.

But it’s your Qualifying Question that irks me. “A qualifier is a question that you ask an unbeliever that will tell you whether their excuse for unbelief is genuine, or just a delaying tactic.”

For the people I know and interact with, unbelief is not something you need an excuse for. Unbelief is the clear seeing of the world the way things are, so it seems. James K.A. Smith’s book How (Not) to Be Secular: Reading Charles Taylor sums up my experience (and belief about the truth of reaching out to unbelievers) quite well.

All that being said, I’m sure there are people out there who are avoiding God and giving excuses. For all the work that you are doing with them, I am truly grateful.

Hi Bruce, I understand where you’re coming from. I’ve also found that most unbelievers genuinely believe that they have good reasons for not believing. The reason why I called it a delaying tactic is because I’m looking at it from the evangelist’s point of view and not an unbelievers’.

So since from an evangelist’s point of view the best choice an unbeilever can make is to choose to believe in Jesus, then to choose to continue in unbelief would be considered a delay tactic.

I have to admit that that’s not very clear in my article. Sorry about that. I’ll take that point into consideration for next week’s article since it will build on this one.

Bruce, please post a link to your apologetics-discussion blog so that other people can read what you have to say.

As a former Evangelical Lutheran, I understand why you probably believe that. Just so you are aware, most atheists either do not believe in a god (let alone the Christian God) or are indifferent if they fall more into the agnostic side of atheism. You have to remember that there are countries and/or groups of people who have never even heard of Christianity. You can’t say that they hate your god when they’ve never heard of him. It’s very similar for atheists in the US. They simply don’t believe that a god exists and it’s pretty hard to hate something that’s not there.

Peter,

I have to agree with Aubtey who posted earlier. It is rather offensive that you assume unbelievers are that way because they prefer “The Darkness”. Unless of course you’re talking about the band. They have pretty decent music.
Two things with that:
1. According to the Bible (if we’re sticking with Christianity) No one is without sin. That includes you. Now I don’t know you but the Christians that I do know personally are not perfect by the Bible’s standards and believing in a god hasn’t changed that. I know when I identified as a Christian I wasn’t perfect. Now that I no longer believe in a god, my morality hasn’t really changed. Then again I never got my morality from the Bible. What I’m saying is I don’t need to believe in a higher power to be a good person. If you think having God in your life is the only thing stopping you from murdering, raping, and pillaging then please PLEASE keep on believing in him.

2. I would need more information on what you consider living in sin or living in darkness (however you want to phrase it). If you are more in alignment with objective morality and subscribe to the Bible (which includes The Deuteronomic Code), then you may want to reconsider where you get your morals from. It’s a double edged sword really. If you follow the rules laid out in the bible then you’re probably not a very good person by today’s standards however, if you’re more subjective about your morality and make moral decisions based on the situation, you’d probably be a decent guy according to society but you may not be following God.

Nate (who also posted earlier) said that Aubtey may be an exception to the rule. I won’t argue that point because I don’t know nor do I speak for all atheists. I suppose that makes me an exception as well. I was asking more questions than my religion could answer for me and when I started receiving the sarcastic answer of “ask him when you get there” I was pretty much fed up. I did not make the decision to deny a god so I could live in sin, I came to the conclusion that I could not honestly believe in a god with no evidence to support the claim of his existence.

I’m sure at some point you stopped believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy for similar reasons. You, like many, probably discovered that there was a non-magical explanation for how presents appeared under the tree or what happened to your tooth at night. It’s sort of like that for me with the gods of the world. I know that the earth revolves around the sun instead of it being carried by a celestial chariot. I know that when I fell asleep on Christmas Eve, it was my parents who put presents under the tree. Not an immortal old man with a magical sleigh. I also know that it’s highly unlikely that a supreme being created an entire universe yet gets upset if some puny human on a speck of a rock located in a small region of the Milky Way Galaxy which is just one of billions of other galaxies, decides there’s not enough evidence to support believing he exists.

Just a suggestion: Look into the history of Yahweh. It’s actually pretty interesting to see how a small Canaanite religion spread and became the basis for Christianity today.

I understand you’re position Bruce since you’re a former Christian turned atheist or agnostic. Your comment about about the similarities between Christianity and mythology encouraged me to write an upcoming article in which I’ll show how this is a deception that’s causing people to think Christianity is false. I wish you all the best Bruce. I have a feeling we’ll be talking again soon.

Doug, you said you were a former Evangelical Lutheran, can you please tell me why you Believe in Jesus Christ at one time and what made you lose that belief.

Christians have the Bible, non-believers only have their own opinion, nothing to go on for what they actually believe in.

Christian sin just like non-christian, the main difference I believe is that we recognize the sin the holy spirit
convicts us of the sin we just committed (we do commit many sins each day).

Its our faith and God’s Grace and mercy that saves us. God love us that he gave his son Jesus Christ to take all of our sins and put it on Jesus who never sin. God’s nature is Holy and Righteous. God hates sin, our sin separates us from God, that is why Jesus had to die for us and our sins. God cannot sin and God cannot allow sin to enter into heaven, that is why Jesus had to die for mankind to enter into Gods presence.

Hi, Peter. Thanks for you reply. I guess I can understand why some of your friends would answer, “I don’t know,” because it’s likely that they’ve never given the question much thought.

For myself, the answer would be that I’d need to see evidence not in terms of behavioral changes or mood changes (easily explained through normal psychology and body chemistry science) but rather a few things that are not explainable by science or magic tricks.

I had a “miracle” recovery when I was in high school. I was allegedly going to lose sight in one eye, according to the eye doctor. He had done all the measurements and tests he could, and thought it was an untreatable issue. My mother was distraught, thinking that going blind in one eye would have such an impact on me.

I was sent to a specialist in California. It took a couple of days before I could be examined. The specialist told me that there was nothing wrong and that he didn’t see any of the indications that our family opthomologist was seeing. My mother has always called this a “miracle” and she will go to her grave believing it. To me, it was an old, less educated doctor making a mistake and costing my family a lot of money to get out to that specialist.

Psychologists tell us that we behave better when we believe that other people are privately observing us. To my mind, it makes sense that this would be true whether we believe other people or a higher power or the ghosts of our loved ones are the observers. So speaking only for myself, I don’t think that behavioral changes that stem from adopting religion are out of the norm or unexpected.

What I don’t see are miracles that are indisputable. People these days argue that miracles are occurring over a period of years, too slow for most people to notice. However this doesn’t fit how miracles are written into the Bible. Why would there be such a change, in a period that to God should be a blink of an eye?

I wonder if you’re selling your friends short when you become dismissive and walk away from conversations, as you advocate in your text. Wouldn’t you stand a greater chance of evangelizing if you were to embrace the difficult conversations? Or does it really just become too much at times, or too much a situation of diminishing returns?

hi peter i would love a private msg so i could talk to u about a few things im haveing trouble understanding and or believing in jesus god as i thought i was a follower of jesus and everything i was thinking was god and then something just clicked and i now doubt everything every christian person i talk to includeing my gf are stumped when i talk with them and i litrealy leave them speachless coz they cant give me the answers i need to move forawrd so insted im moving backwards and hateing god my email is jesusiseverythingandmore@gmail.com thank you

Hi Peter, my apologies for the delayed response. I don’t check my personal email as often as I should.
The reply I was referring to was this:

“Peter Guirguis
OCTOBER 18, 2015 AT 11:01 AM
I understand you’re position Bruce since you’re a former Christian turned atheist or agnostic. Your comment about about the similarities between Christianity and mythology encouraged me to write an upcoming article in which I’ll show how this is a deception that’s causing people to think Christianity is false. I wish you all the best Bruce. I have a feeling we’ll be talking again soon.”

It was situated beneath my response so I wasn’t sure if it was meant for me or Bruce, the gentleman who posted above me who I was writing to.

1. The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked who can know it. –Yahweh

2. Atheists logical thinking starts with the premise ” there is no God ” and from there they argue to the conclusion that ” there is no God.”

3. The fool has said in his heart there is no God. –Yahweh

4. Science may be a source of data and theories but it’s not a source of Truth. Science uses inductive reasoning not deductive reasoning. Science makes an argument based on observations but these observations are neither perfect nor complete.

5. Hey Christians you need to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Don’t get sucked into the deceptive words of the Atheists. They like to basically use an ad hominem attack against Christians which goes something like —-you people are so simple while we atheists use logic. They don’t use logic to prove there is no God. One cannot prove there is no God. One could at best come to the conclusion in their mind that they don’t know If God exists.

6. Their hearts are deceiving themselves for the atheists claim things which they should know they cannot claim.

hi, I just subscribed to your site today as I came up with something that interests me. I am married to an unbeliever, and hence most problems arise associated with it. my husband does believe in Jesus but he does not believe that He is the only true God and Saviour. he thinks all God is same..you know these kind of people. I do have a prayer indeed that you please pray God to touch his heart, and God to be the center of our marriage. that’s all… hope to hear from you.

Thanks for your immediate reply. My husband’s name is Prashant V. Naik, a very loving husband, accompanies to church. But I desperately want him to know Jesus. He is a nice person and really don’t want him to loose to the opposite side.

Hi Dennis,
Thanks for replying, regarding your reply, I really have not seen success rate stories where human efforts are put in knowing the word of God – Prophecy, Truth etc when the Spiritual discernment is lacking. For e.g. I have shared the gospel to him a long time back, have related so many events that have happened with us related to God’s calling, but its ineffective. My husband believes in Jesus as God, but due to absence of spiritual discernment, He has difficulty to understand in Firstly Jesus is the only True Son of God and Savior and no other God can give him salvation (His belief is all God are same), second, that He was born as God in human form with the Holy Spirit’s work (Most of his hindu God’s were created with sex among the Parent Gods). The ultimate is husband even questions the authenticity of the scriptures whether its human written or from God, though I have answered him in my full capacity. I have bible, even he has. But to him, its all moon and stars! I believe God can only change him at His appointed time no matter what strategies I use. I am just a wife doing my part of work that God has told me to in Ephesians chapter 5 to submit to him, love and cherish him in all circumstances. Its been a year with more downs than Ups (Ox and Mule Syndrome) But I know one thing, there is a purpose to our marriage. I believe only prayers with fasting can make him to encounter Jesus one day. So please pray! Thats all I am asking.

Peter, thank you for this article. I stumbled upon this as I googled ways to share the gospel to unbelievers. My father in law is a loving man, but also very proud. We have been praying for him and sharing the truth for many years but to no avail. Well, my father in law’s health is declining, and we fear time is running out. Please pray for God’s intervention and wisdom. I do not know what else to do.

Hi David, thank you very much for your kind comment. Sorry for the late reply, I was on vacation but I recently came back. I’d love to be able to pray for your father-in-law. If you would like to have the Not Ashamed of the Gospel Community pray for him, then please reply to this comment and post your father-in-law’s name. But if you would like to keep it more private, then please free to use the contact form in the navigation and I will add him to my prayer list.

I really believe that religion is a projection for people to find and create ‘meaning.’ At least, that’s what I justify it as when people ask me ‘what’s the point of living if you don’t believe in the afterlife?’ What kind of question is that? Why would the point of living be to die so you could move on to another life? What about the one happening right now?”
The Bible says everything is a sin. I just don’t understand how people can tolerate guilt over something like having sex before marriage or being gay. How can people get equally angry with me, for not believing in God, and another guy, who actually shares their beliefs, but is gay? Why am I the one being portrayed as evil? I don’t care if he’s gay or if he believes in God.

Hi River, I totally understand where you’re coming from. When I was an atheist, one of the things that I struggled with was what is the meaning of life? I found everything to be quite vain and meaningless.

I mean what is the point of life if all that we do is get born, go to school, then get a job, get married, then have some kids, and then after that we die. Sounds to me like a pretty meaningless and vain existence.

May I please ask you if you have found the answer to what the meaning or purpose of life is?

River, God created earth and the universe for us (Mankind). God created us for his son Jesus Christ. Sin separate us from God. There are 2 things that God cannot do. 1. God cannot sin, its against his holy nature. 2. God cannot allow sin to enter heaven.
That’s why God sent his son Jesus Christ to take all mankind sins and put them on Jesus who had no sin. Only a sinless person could do that. That’s why Jesus was 100% God, and 100% man. Someone had to take all our sin so we could have a relationship with a Holy God.

Christian still sin, we do not have victory over sin, but we do have victory over death.

Its only by our faith, and God’s grace and mercy that we can be saved. God Loves us that much but he also hates sin. God has given us a free will to choose Jesus or reject him.

I would at least investigate, search the scripture and ask God if the bible is true and you exist please reveal yourself to me.

I think religion came from someone who just wanted an answer. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, but it shows that person was trying to find a way to explain everything. Being gay isn’t right? Well guess why 99% of people who believe that think it’s right? RELIGION!! Please, find a way to explain things on your own. The reason I don’t have a religion is because I want to learn on my own.

Hi Mabel, thank you very much for your comments. Since you were talking about explanations in your comment, I’m interested in some of your explanations. Since you don’t believe in God, may I please ask you what is your explanation of how the universe came into existence?

One hypothesis is that there is an ever present quantum state that, when it reaches a certain flux, can form a universe. Also, another universe can form a universe from itself (to whit: black holes are mini universes). Note, this is a hypothesis in search for an observable bit of data which, as telescopes evolve, is becoming more likely to be available. Nonetheless, certain observation may be had by its mathematical truths.

Note, too, that this quantum state exists out of the bounds of time and space and just is. Even if one would stretch the limits of definition and call it God, it is a far cry from a personal God found in Western religions.

No, God is to believed in by faith, because one chooses to believe as such…because the belief holds importance on one level or another.

Mabel, a sin is a sin, whether it a small lie, a wrongful thought or a murder, it is still a sin to a Holy God. Its is nature, God cannot sin and he cannot allow sin to enter heaven. Jesus Christ die for all mankind sins (little sin and large sins).

I’m not really sure why people do not want to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

I believe either we are too prideful and we want to be like God, or we do not believe in sin (that we are not sinners) or we have some sin or sins in our life that we cannot let go of. Or maybe we just don’t like Christian’s.

Not sure why anyone would want to believe that wants I die, the worm will engulf me and that is the end of my existence or a love one. Or we can have eternity with a loving God forever.

Its only by faith and God’s grace, love and mercy that we are saved. He gave us a free will to accept Jesus Chris or reject him.

Please at least investigate to see if there is any truth to his word. If you truly search for God, he will reveal himself to you.

Over 7 billion people on earth, over 2 billion people in over 200 countries that believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

2corinthians 4;4 Satan who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News.They don’t understand this message about the Glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.. Note, Can we all just pray for brothers and sisters who leave comments here believers and unbelievers. There is power in our prayers. God can put light to shine their hearts of unbelievers that hard for them to understand the unseen through the Power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 2;11 For God does not show favoritism. Thank You all.

Listen Kido. An atheist need not prove that God exist. It’s the claimant of the fact, that he exist, have the burden to show that something exist. Atheist need not give an excuse. It’s the believer who come up with ridiculous excuses on how world came into being and where we came from and where we will end. This article sits on pathetic assumption that non-believers must show that something does not exist. That assumption is absurd. I reiterate, burden of proof sits with the claimant. Prove it that he exist; you shouldn’t be asking the non-believer for a proof. I mean y’all are mindbogglingly stupid, I am sorry to say.

Hi Waseem, thank you for sharing your comment on this subject. Here are my thoughts on what you wrote about an atheist need not prove that God exists.

The issue with this statement is that the atheist assumes that the default state is that no gods exist. That means that one can examine the universe and come to the conclusion that there are no gods. However, that in itself is a claim that needs to be supported. There are millions of people who believe that the opposite is true. They believe that the default state is that a God must exist because of the design of the universe or because of other pieces of evidence.

Richard Dawkins himself has been quoted as saying, “The universe has an appearance of design.” He then goes on to support his claim by citing pieces of evidence that he believes are true.

So is the burden of proof only on the Christian that claims that there is a God? I think that the burden of proof should be shared by both the Christian and the atheist.

Additionally, some atheists like to make the claim that they do not need to prove that God doesn’t exist mostly because they know that it is an impossible feat. As you know, it’s impossible to prove the nonexistence of things like Santa Claus, unicorns, and leprechauns. So that’s why I found that some atheists put the burden of proof on the other person which puts the atheist in attack mode without having to defend their own beliefs.

Finally, I’m going to link you here to my comments policy because your last comment was on the border of being emotionally charged when you used the word “pathetic”. I wasn’t offended by it but your next comment may be snarky and I do not allow snarky comments on my blog.

I welcome all sorts of comments on my blog especially when they are from the opposite point of view. However, there are certain comments that I don’t allow when they are against my comments policy. So please familiarize yourself with them just in case you’re planning on saying something inappropriate http://notashamedofthegospel.com/comments-policy

Perhaps people don’t come to G-d because often evangelism is wrong-headed or deceptive.

First, a sobering disclaimer: It is a very Responsible Thing to evangelize, as one, through misrepresentation of G-d, is at occasion to break the 3rd commandment and have to answer for one’s witness. That said, I’d like to submit what I believe to be some components of the problem:

1. The Evangelizer (to make distinctions between “sharing one’s faith” and witnessing which is a far more involved, patient, and sometimes painful practice of showing the renewed character in a believer through the course of time or specific character rendering event) attempts to sell the gospel as hell fire insurance “this eventuality, my friend, could befall you and your family… now, if you’ll sign your soul on the dotted line…” The realities of hell are not known by the living. The mere whiff of what it might be causes the normal soul to recoil from considering it and the vastness of such enormity boggles the mind as to render it truly incomprehensible. FEAR OF HELL, in itself, CANNOT BRING A PERSON TO LOVE G-D.

If one insists on preaching hell, given the broad and pallid watercolors one has to work with, it should never be preached in the subjunctive “where you may/might/ or could” nor in the future where you “will be ONE DAY” but rather in the present “it is where you FIND yourself left all alone with all of your rotten selfishness that ever caused your loved ones pain and you ARE FACING it day after day after day…without excuse, without reprieve, without satisfaction, hollow, hungry and alone –with yourself.”

2. The Evangelizer will attempt to sell property futures in the heavenly abode. “Don’t you want to go to heaven?” as if condescending to a little boy. “NO!” an unbeliever neither has stake nor desire in such a place. The Muslims may have their virgins and the Buddhist Narvanic oneness/extinction, but what does Heaven hold for the unbeliever? There is no sex, no personal property, status and honor are only given in inverse proportion to the recipient’s concern for them. It’s an upside-down, mirror, anti-world to this one. THE ONLY THING IN HEAVEN OF ANY WORTH TO THE UNBELIEVER, YEA, *ANYONE* IS
J-SUS HIMSELF. And heaven would be hell to spend eternity in for anyone who is not all about worshiping Him as that is all that heaven is about.

(2b. False witness from false conversion.)

This is very telling for people who reject so-called “Lordship salvation” —not that “making J-sus L-rd” is what saves a person (as He *IS* regardless of what you think or want) —
but anyone unwilling to submit to Him has neither loved Him or known Him, for the debt of Love could not even be satisfied by this act. It is *THAT* confession of His Lordship that comes from THAT kind of FAITH that saves.

There are so many such nominal “Cultural™ Christians®” ‘evangelizing’ entrance into a club too foreign and unfashionable to the average outsider. What is necessary is not a way to freshen the image of this club and further water-down the gospel. What is needed is a Witness. How can one witness of what they do not know. (I leave it to the reader to find the Pretender’s song “Show Me” as an exercise.) They are more interested in *seeing* YOUR commitment to G-d, YOUR modesty, YOUR contentment, YOUR relationship lived out, the grace given to YOU under fire before they go off chucking everything that they’ve ever known about how to live their life for some pithy little formula or a repeat-after-me exercise.

3. There is no prayer for the lost. Earnest, dedicated prayer. Christianity is, above all, a REVEALED religion. Individually revealed. The carnal mind can’t even know the things of G-d. PRAY FOR THE SOULS THAT YOU SHARE YOUR MESSAGE WITH. That G-d would have grace. Would open their eyes. Would point out their sin and their need for Him.

4. There is no mention of the sinfulness of sin. It is THIS that is the basis of a person’s coming to Christ. “Blessed are the beggarly in spirit, for to these very ones belongs the Kingdom of Heaven.” The gospel is about how, in spite of however good we think we are, we are not. If we were to be let into heaven in our carnal state, it would utterly transform it into something else. This requires a separation from G-d who has been wooing and calling and who has made a wonderful future life for each individual soul to be lived out in conformity of the image of His Son in strength of character and righteousness and fulfillment – all before the world was ever made and promises to complete His work in the individual He personally wrought all this Himself in the work of the Cross– the infinite Honorable Reverend King of the Universe: despised, mocked, humiliated, tortured— for us and all the selfish wickedness we clung to, out of His love for us. If we should reject this offer, should we neglect so great a salvation, what is left to be done with such incorrigible wickedness than to dispose of it in such a final way as the eternal separation from G-d which it seeks. This is the “why” of hell: the sinfulness of sin.

The pain in the world is not to show us that there are consequences to sinning and that that is what makes it wrong. It is to show us of what character we are that we don’t care if we cause pain while we are doing it. THAT is the nature of sin.

There are many more reasons as nuanced and varied as there are people in the world (Satan has been working on its weaving for a very long time) We should start with the things we can account for and pray for the opportunity to witness rightly and not to trip anyone up.

Well that was it in a nutshell. Sounds like loving sin is akin to loving money! You can’t have TWO masters. You’ll naturally love one more than the other… There are two aspects of my life that I’m “comfortable” with because one makes me feel good and also because there is no outlet or relief for the other. It’s not a sin that would still nations, but I see now that I’m comfortable with both b/c no one knows about one and b/c I like the other. I’m about 85% there elsewhere in my faith. It’s just those two things one of which I no longer feel guilty about it. I actually feel justified. In a way, I suppose it’s my way of being spiteful about that one failed area of my life. I do believe that the solution will resolve both of those issues, but I dunno how to fix it. I’ve asked for help, but Christians are too busy being social media gurus and posting encouraging words instead of being an encouragement. I self correct as best I can. Any way. I have confessed Jesus is Lord so I empathize with those who have not because the pull of their sin is so much more impressive than having peace from within…

“The Spirit is the one who gives life and the flesh doesn’t help at all. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. Yet some of you don’t believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning who wouldn’t believe and the one who would betray him. He said, “For this reason I said to you that none can come to me unless the Father enables them to do so.”
John 6:63 – 65 (CEB)

Not every spirit roaming this reality is being restored. When Jesus was physically here, He was an expert at recognizing them, but even He “marveled” at the faith of some He didn’t at first suspect (Matthew, chapter 4). He explained the two types of spirits in Matthew, chapter 13.”

I am not a Christian. It could be nice to have discussions with Christians about why I believe what I do (or don’t). But you;ve already decided that no matter what I say, you will believe that my real reason is that “I love the dark more than the light”.

You could save time for yourself and unbelievers by simply skipping the pretense of having a discussion or debate and just start (and end) the conversation by informing the unbeliever that they don’t believe because “they love the dark more than the light”.

1, I just don’t need to – because I’ve got everything; I just don’t want to – I’m happy with my life
2, Many of my friends around me are non-believers and they are all happy and nice guys – hard working, polite, being helpful, never get drunk…etc.
3, I know some guys who are Christians but they are just as good, or worse than non-believers!
4, There should be no disasters on the Earth and no one should suffer or die innocently, if there is a God
5, All religious tell us to be good man anyway!!!
6, I did something bad (classified as sin as according to the Bible), maybe lying, swearing at somebody, reading porns, etc. Nothing happened, nobody punished me, I’m still a happy man and can continue to live as is!

My husband is an unbeliever because he thinks the idea of an imaginary man in the sky, who created everything is ridiculous. He says it sounds like a childrens story and is amazed that so many people have fallen for it!

He proves this by quoting stacks of research papers on the creation and natural history of earth and space.

He also says nobody reads “porns” any more – its all on line and you can even get it on your smartphone. Who knew sin is now portable?

Sheena, please ask your husband if he is such a believer in science, then how can he explain how this universe came into existence 13.8 billion years ago? Did it come from nothing? How is it that evolution can explain the forming of life from nonlife when there is no observable experiment that can be made as proof?

I accepted Christ, after wondering why my life was always in the toilet. I expected my life to change, but it didn’t. I spend many miserable years trying to get ahead and relying on God to pull me out of hell. He didn’t. I think the main point I am trying to make here is this. I expected God to do something for me, financially and or career wise. The truth is I was just miserable. I didin’t read the bible, and for the most part isolated myself. To this day, I cannot even remember most of this dark time in my life. I thought that being a Christian would somehow change my life. However, what I didn’t realize is that I blamed God for my bad decisions. As sincere as I was, I couldn’t understand what the real meaning of being a Christian is. After many years of pain and struggle, I fell completely away from God. I couldn’t see the merit in it and resorted to just doing what ever pleased me. I got married to the wrong man, and therefore had another ten years plus of misery. These were my decisions and to this day I believe that I didn’t seek the Lord for my decisions. Now after all of this, I did come back to Christ. But I couldn’t continue on the same path, for I felt that it didn’t work for the first twenty years of my adult life. I can tell you this, giving your life to Christ doesn’t mean that you won’t suffer. If you truly understand the walk and realiance upon Jesus, then the walk is much easier. Instead of wanting things from God, you ask God to direct what is best for you. Instead of making rash decisions, you ask for wisdom before acting. I think many people do not understand this principal. For God knows us all intimately. He understands our desires, but doesn’t give us what we ask for at the moment or even in the near future. But if we put our trust in the Lord, and ask God what he wants for us, then what ever he gives us, we will be happy with. In fact, when we trust Him with our lives, we end up really enjoying the ride instead of complaining what we don’t have.

hi my name is julie. i have been raised by two very very good christian parents who really really trust Jesus. me on the other hand seem different. about 11 years ago i was asked by my dad if i was saved and i replied as usual, but it really bothered me. i was so scared that i couldn’t eat or sleep and i felt like i was going to die. i began to doubt everything, but i was also scared to doubt at the same time. i began thinking if there was a God or no, was there a Jesus or no?

for the next 7 years i would be stationed alone in my room or at the library looking things up and gaining evidence for a God and for jesus. i started to question even the evidence that i had, everything became very confusing to the point i nearly went insane. then after the seven years i felt better and started living my life as usual. but now recently this is starting over again, but this time i seem to be slipping moreso than before. i know all the evidence, i know there is a God, and yet i am still not able to fully trust in Jesus as my saviour. i feel a pressure in my heart area when i think about these things. like my heart is trying to shield me from Jesus. i know i sin, but recently when worrying about these things, i felt like something left me, and i havent felt much of anything. i feel like i have been left to a reprobate mind, because i know all of the evidence and yet i have not fully surrendered. i am a wishy washy person, and i always catch myself making excuses. i no longer feel the love for my family like i used to, nor of animals like i used to. i am scared but at the same time i don’t feel anything.

i guess what i’m asking is if there is still hope for someone in my position who knows all of the facts and yet still has not surrendered. when i read your reasoning on why people don’t come to christ, i felt like it was for me. people love sin more than God. i am a very nice and kind person to everyone who knows me. but inside i’m a rebelious person who makes excuses and disobeys almost all authority. i need godly people to pray for me to stop being rebellious and to come to jesus christ my saviour. i also keep catching myself thinking if i would just do this or that, then i could go to jesus and he will accept me, but i wouldn’t even accept myself after the things i’ve said and done to God in my heart. i know what faith is. i am also afraid that God has given me over because of what i am doing, and he will say ‘pray not for this person seeing i have rejected her.’ i am confused but i still know what the bible says. i have no conviction (rarely do i have convictions for anything). i kinda had it when i read your post about people loving their sin more than God. there are also times when i’m terribly scared, then all of a sudden it stops and i don’t feel anything. i think that maybe God is sending me delusion or has left me to my own devices, then i get very confused and have to stop and rethink. then i also think, if i’m being sent delusion, i’m not gonna know it. do i think that i can out think God’s delusion? He will not send me delusion unless He knows that i am without hopes of ever coming to Him by way of the cross.

is there any hope for one like me? could you send bible verses with your reply?

Yes Julie, there is plenty of hope for someone like you! I read your comment and I can relate to so many things that you wrote. Please use the contact link in the navigation on my blog to send me your email address and we can talk more about this in private.

Awesome article! Love it. I always try to share the word of god with my friends. They are atheists. It’s not bad to share the word of god right??? Sometimes people tell me to just keep it to myself… but I can’t help it.

The pharisees were great debaters too and saten trapped eve with a debate of sorts..why surely…..and Jesus himself was quoted as calling the pharisees a den of vipers..the exact entity that tempted eve many years before..The lord clearly stated that we have been chosen before the foundations of the world..and you haven’t hence the argument you raised..we have compassion because you are a non believer …you have a seed of hatred..compassion blooms to love and hatred blooms to death…choose life!

Judah hung out with believers too…but wasn’t a true believer….once you have truly given your life over to the king of kings nothing can separate..believers are the first to say I’m a sinner! …but if we live in that sin…say sex before marriage….we are fully made aware of it buy the Holy spirt …because he is constantly drawing us nearer to God ..( truth)..one look around the universe on a beautiful day can let any person know that there something greater out there that created all of this it didn’t just blew out of LG even the scientists who call themselves unbelievers know that there is one thing out there that created all of this and they try daily daily to be like God why they can create a baby in a petri dish that’s pretty God like but they do it for all the wrong motives God created people to be creative with all the technology in the world if it was all done for the right motives we could feed the world we would have compassion but with the more technology comes more hatred now I’m doing what I was angry about in this post I am trying to convince you but you know what I am so thankful that the Lord chose me from the beginnings of the world I am loved and cherished I am wonderfully made and I cannot wait until the Creator reveals himself and bring his kingdom down to this earth we will still be working and having jobs we will still talk with the friends that we have today and it will all make sense and there will be no evil in this world while talk about a Hallmark movie I wish you luck my friend but please try Jesus again because you didn’t have him the first time because once you have them you know the truth and the truth set you free and you would never walk away from Jesus if you truly truly accepted him in your heart

Wow. So the real reason that atheists (or anyone else) can’t believe in God is that we can’t be perfect. And in our “imperfection”, which was built into us (don’t bother arguing this because you can’t based on the totality of the biblical narrative), we owe a debt to the one who made us unable to be perfect. Why? Why would we owe anything other than a passing “thanks a lot” to such a being that would devise such a sadistic paradox? The very thing you have pointed out as why we don’t believe is one of my key reasons that there is *nothing* to believe in. If you indeed believe that billions upon billions of eternal souls will deserve eternal punishment for their inability to be perfect and to have problems with the concept of a petty, sadistic and horribly narcissist deity, then it is you who has the problem, not us. It feels pretty good to arrogantly side yourself with something that lets you be on the side of the “few”. That is not humility. That is not love. That is not “holy”. What is pure and beautiful is accepting that we are who we are, and it is up to us to make the best or worst of it, and that we don’t need to worry about pissing off a completely unseen and scientifically non-existent diety while we muddle through this life while he “sits” in heaven doing whatever the hell he doesn’t do.

You really can’t see outside of your view can you. I don’t believe in your god for reasons that extend beyond your facile accusation that we just really want to live depraved lives. Take numbers 31:17 moses orders the destruction of the midianites all women (pregnant ones too) he says take amongst the little ones the boys and kill them and keep the ones who haven’t slept with men alive for yourselves. So basically little girls had to watch their whole family slaughteted, baby brothers and toddlers ran through and dashed to pieces then they were carted off and forced to “marry” the same men who did it which is rape by any standards. Then your god had 32 virgins consecrated (burnt) to him. He once burned 2 people alive for using the wrong incense with strange smoke he had not commanded then told their father not to mourn by rending his shirt or he’d kill him and descend a great wrath on all his people who had nothing to do with it. The Paul fellow you quote can’t get his story straight between him and Luke as to what allegedly happened when he supposedly met Jesus on the side of the road. Did they hear the voice see no light and remain standing or not hear a voice see a light and fall prostrate? If Jesus fulfilled the Isaiah prophecy about being born of a virgin how come it had NOTHING to do with him? The Immanuel kid was a sign to king Ahab or whoever that the 2 northern kings that were going to rise up and crush would be stubble before the child knew between right and wrong …. 650-700 year before Christ which might be why nobody ever calls him Immanuel. Why did Mary and her sons try to drag Jesus inside thinking he lost his mind? Did she forget the whole virgin birth? Why did Jesus say do not resist evil men but then he whips people and throws over their table in a manner that is remarkably like resisting me he deems evil. The list goes on and on and on. The Bible is straight up filled with gory rapey filthy gutter trash Bud.

I am not a believer. I’m only 13. I may not think that believing will not make life better for me but my friend is a believer and he sticks to what he believes so for that reason, I think God is a great inspiration for the people who believe. By the way, the reason I found this site is actually because I’m writing an essay about Jesus Christ.

Sorry I added an extra not in one of my sentences. I meant to wright “…think that believing will make life better for…” but even if, I’m glad you all have an inspiration that you look up to. Good luck on life and pray me luck for my essay.

I’m one of those rare, if unheard of, “unbelievers” that is in a relatively unique situation. It’s a long story but, the end result is that I’m both. When I go to Church with my believing girlfriend, I chose to become a believer and give it my all, I REALLY do. I will do so, also, occasionally, as the situation merits, during a typical week.

Most of the time, though, I’m quite atheist as I’ve been for close to 58 years. I look at believing as a psychological feat that promises a variable amount of comfort, one not the same as unbelief offers, though both can be equally comforting. I realize the psychological basis of belief and ignore it during those times I’m a believer, to create a feeling of reality in one’s belief. But I also realize that unbelief has many, equal, advantages (psychologically if one is prone to scientific discovery and the truth one may obtain in that regard (about our natural world), not to mention its intellectual honesty when looking at our human needs.

I also enjoy (even “get off on”) surrendering to belief, being part of the “sheep” and its inherent human neediness that it caters to, the humility one feels during prayer, its somewhat stereotypical “feminine” aspect, etc.

It’s been working very well between me and my girlfriend who understands my particular needs in this way, even if she and others define it as “being called by the holy spirit”. In fact, last week, I got baptized and loved every minute of it.

I probably can write at least 20 pages, or more, on my particular situation so take heart that there’s a LOT more to this than my little vignette portrays here. What I enjoy most about it though is being able to see both sides in all their glory, and understanding. I love both of myselves! 🙂

HLM……..Are we truly free to feel all of God’s incredible intimacy with a partner if some of our will is running the show. How much intimate and bliss could it be if he were free roam in our most intimate areas of life. He did design the entire love and marriage relationship to show the world his handy work and glory……Have been looking for that situation now that I am older in life…..

HLM, we seem to have cheapened the whole sex thing in this world. King Solomon, who had a lot of sex, in all forms of partnership. What he writes is, the glue that keeps a man and woman together and fresh is the discovery and growth of God in their relationship, and then the sex, which is pure through their purity is the icing on the cake that bonds their two souls together. We seam to have lost that path these days and the cheating, divorce, disease, is killing our families. When God’s word says that sin is death, take your pick…….Did the family die because of adultery, lying, leaving, or aids???? Scribe his word in stone and on your heart because his truth holds water and carries weight……The acid test for the truth, does it work? Look at any situation and find the problem will stem from not following the truth or obedience……

There are a plethora of things that can work as “glue” to keep relationships worthy. No one thing does it all. In your example, there are those whose dedication to God prevents a marital relationship and those who fail regardless. It takes a lot and it all has to do with the definition of love, compromise, compatibility, and lots more.

HLM, yes there are…..but if the relationship is focused on just those things, sex, job, money, events, kids, family, things change and storms come. The beautiful man who makes the great money suddenly looses his job and suffers and illness, or the wife goes through a life change and gets fat and hates herself, so everyone in the family feels it……Why do these storms come…..Well, at the end of John, Jesus says that in this world we will have trouble and he will send an adversary that will walk with us and prepare us for those storms. That sprit produce the fruit in Galatians 5 that protect us from those storms and the family stays focused on Christ and they weather. So many relationships allow selfishness, sin, to creep in and destroy. Scripture speaks of him he seeks to devour, temp, and destroy. Lastly, God is love, and love that is perfect and forever……maybe we focus on that love in faith? I have seen beautiful and destroyed relationships. The ones that glorify God in all they do seem to make it through the tough times and trials? Maybe the relationship lives with a bigger calling than just the broken people we are?

Hi Craig,
Not to put all our eggs in one basket but, frankly, there are an incredible number of ways to solve and prevent problems, including the ones you’ve mentioned in your reply.

In any belief system, godly or not, the range of happiness derived from life stretches along the wide range of possibility, from little to a lot. Books have been written on the subject and even an industry born from the market for such knowledge.

It makes sense that one may favor something if it worked for them but that shouldn’t allow one to think that only their method works in all instances. In most situations, a mix of methods, each one catering to the particular individual’s proclivities, preferences and situation increases the chance of finding success in terms of happiness, which is usually not well defined by most anyway, other than we know it when we feel it.

And, even along time, something that worked last year may not work as well another year. One size fits all isn’t usually the rule with human happiness, though it’s a good formula for certain types of hats.

HLM, If everyone gets to make choices based on their happiness and what is changing this year, and what is now different from last year, then were all in trouble……A life lived on feelings keeps us in the jaws of controversy….The beauty of Gods love and character is, it never changes……the rock to build on, as the scripture says. I think once we see his sovereignty we run to him for stability, which is what he wants. He wants to direct our thoughts and path, Prov. 3:5…..I can’t seem to find a flaw in the truth of his word? The things written long ago are being fulfilled with 100% accuracy, even the coming of Jesus. When we run with our own will selfishness creeps in and that destroys relationships in all areas of our lives. Everyone wants their slice of happiness and the world winds up with less love and more contention…..

HLM, from what you described in your comment, even though you go to church and sometimes you surrender to belief, you, according to the biblical definition would be considered an unbeliever, and not born again.

So, Peter, are you saying that I should surrender to belief always? Are the choices only two? Even the saints had their doubts, yes? I’m not even sure what surrendering to belief, totally, would mean. For instance, some would have one believe all that’s in the Bible, literally, which would put one at odds with certain things we see, like evolution, the age of our universe and so forth.

Do you then mean carrying Jesus in our hearts always? Do you mean following the 10 Commandments and the beatitudes? At what point is the line crossed (to coin a phrase) into true believer?

In my walk I have learned that the adversary, or wholly spirit is what cements the word as being true. The change occurs walking by faith, not sight or logic…..If we believe these events went down and that God exists, then he is…….Not just what part of that we can handle or want to believe but all in!!! Then comes the good part, that we are powerless to make the changes, but rather the power of his GRACE changes us…..Self will and self reliance become myths, and we see that without him I can do nothing…..The world operates on self-reliance and where is that leaving us?

Without addressing your other statements, I think self reliance has some good stories to go with it, but so does cooperation. In fact, they work hand in hand.

Faith is not enough to keep peace in a complicated world because it’s too prone to variant interpretations. Love living things and that which makes them better may be a good start. The definition of fairness helps too.

As for logic, like most things, it has its good side and bad. The logic that science is based on has brought us ways to heal…and ways to kill. Nevertheless, so far, on balance it has aided life, measurably, in more ways than anything to date (including you and my current communication method: the computer). So, don’t be too down on logic as it’s worked well over time also.

If it’s human there’s two sides to the coin, and yes, that includes religious thinking where the record isn’t as perfect as one may hope…either.

For the last several months I’ve decided to become a believer all the time and, with lots of prayer, I’ve succeeded. For me, it feels right and good. So thanks for your advice, it was right…for me.

Coming from a Christian, I have atheist friends, and they all believe Jesus existed. The question is whether he was divine or not.
Honestly, I can see where Aubrey is coming from. Your statements imply a deep sense of immorality in all atheists. Most atheists are good people, but you want to lump them in as sinful people that don’t deserve your time. In reality, they just don’t find the evidence compelling. I don’t believe in God because it makes logical sense. I believe in him because I can feel it in my soul. Just because you don’t feel that doesn’t make you sinful. It just means you put more merit of facts than reason
We’re all God’s children, and I just feel we should treat each other with respect.

It’s not logic to tell an atheist who believes Jesus existed but are not sure whether he was divine or not, not to put faith in good works and just put faith in someone who he ‘s not sure was divine. Human common sense is “show me your good work and I believe in you”. Jesus said : “Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

Kim, so true and the world says show me and I will believe. Jesus say believe in me and I will show you. He has shown us and his brief 3 year ministry he showed us things that have never been seen before. Hard to imagine people actually saw the miracles and still questioned. My favorite pastor says that people may believe but they just are too comfortable in their sin. If they are super successful financially they would rather just live in sin as it’s easier than picking up their cross and walking in the spirit??

This is the biggest load of tripe I’ve ever heard. Hey Peter, I’m an ex-Christian. When I became an atheist, I didn’t change any of my behaviours. I didn’t start drinking, smoking or gambling. I’m still a virgin and give to the poor. In fact, one of the reasons I left the church, other than my unbelief in talking snakes, was because of how many “true” Christians were doing those things. So, why am I an atheist? Also, I love how you tell people to run away from arguments. That’s the most sure fire way of knowing that someone is lying to you.

Shane, Paul was talking to churches in many cities that were living in heavy sin, adultery, drunkenness, pride, etc…..There are no perfect churches and some are way off base in their teaching…..God loves his church so people can gather together to feel unity and hear his word. People really caring for one another……Some churches are moving mountains for this planet and helping so many people, but all of them are made up of struggling people. None of us has all the answers, even some of the best pastors in the business. Sorry you gave up on church and God……

Aubtey, I was reading one of your comments from October about the false God’s that people believe in to make themselves feel better and people don’t want to give up their sinful lifestyles, and that the comment made was ignorant and offensive? What is really offensive to me is the divorce rate, the rate of adultery, marred innocent children, rape,the fact that our president can’t speak truth, STD’s are killing millions of people a year. A lot has been said about the bible and God’s truth, and these wonderful people out there loving their neighbors, sin free, spreading joy, without a belief in our creator? I haven’t seen any in my neighborhood? God’s word is not meant to be offensive but rather protective!!! If we follow what he commands, there would not be this lack of morality that just simply accepts, and excuses, and says, that’s just the way it is? It’s a compromise…….who wants to live in compromise when it comes to morals and character. The real question people should be asking, how do I live a life without compromise when It comes to sin? Now were getting warmer……take on that battle and your life will change…..Lastly, if anyone talks about sin free, their a liar!!! Were born into it…….

“There is no evidence for God.
If there really is a God, then He would feed the starving kids in Africa. He would heal cancer patients too.”

Not an excuse, that’s exactly why I don’t believe. If God exists, He must either not have nearly as much power as He should have, or else be evil. A loving parent doesn’t willingly let their child starve or die, or be abused. Why does God just sit by and let evildoers speak for Him and hurt innocent children?
If there was a God, I would spit in His face and tell Him that I may be a puny human, but I don’t bow down to evil.

Ettina,
The earth and how it was created, is so mathematically perfect that even scientist eventually have to succumb to the proof of a higher being, or a God? The most advanced human minds on the planet cannot build a woman’s reproductive system? The awesome power of the ocean demonstrates a supreme being. I am with you on why, then, do such horrible things happen under his watch? The beautiful Charles Swindoll says there are things we cannot explain, that happen to innocent people? Chuck says, along with the bible, that his will is beyond human comprehension? The miracles that Jesus performed are well documented as well as, the empty tomb, that was documented by both Jews and Romans. So there is proof of a God. If you are ever fortunate enough to spend time in a combat zone or foxhole, you will be praying to God. I think the expression goes, there’s no atheists in a foxhole!!! Hope for your success in your search for the truth, it’s worth every second.

There is more proof of jesus and his life. Death and resurrection than Julius Caesar was even a real man. More so than much of our historical knowledge is based on… please use any scriptures or historical documentation you can find. Do your research. I challenge you to attempt to disprove jesus. Please go in with an open mind and have a look at the evidence. 🙂 you’ll find much more than you were looking for xxxxxxxx

There are lots of resources that verify that Jesus actually existed. They are historical books written by Josephus, Tacitus, and other authors who wrote about Jesus and His followers. Additional archaeological evidences also corroborate the existence of a man by the name of Jesus of Nazareth 👍.

I used to be a firm believer in Christianity. I didn’t turn away because I wanted to live in sin and darkness. It is not me to judge but I live a moral and giving life. I wish Christians would truly love and except all people. I wish all Christians would follow Jesus’ example!

Well, Danette, in my opinion, I don’t think it will ever be possible that all Christians can follow Jesus’s example. That’s because all people, including Christians, are sinners. That means that nobody will be able to follow Jesus’s example all the time.

So if I make respectfully ask, why did you choose to leave Christianity?

Danette, wouldn’t it nice if the world could live by the golden rule and just love each other?? Think that is what Jesus was trying to show us, along with forgiveness. Churches have made huge impacts on people, communities, and the world, and then there are those churches that don’t? As long as you believe in Jesus and his father your life will have an impact on the people around you, family, work, friends, that’s all we are asked to do…..

I realize you didn’t address your reply to me but bear with me on this as it’s a minor point. The Golden Rule has limits. Treat others as you would have them treat yourself is problematic since the other person may have different preferences than you do. I’m not sure if the following is better: treat others as they would have you treat them.

I’m overall a really bad Christian but still refuse to fully go agnostic or athiest. As a child in church the fear of hell was instilled in me as many are as children. I grew up and after the divorce of my parents I wasn’t made to go to church which suited me just fine. I met my wife who who is Christian and started going to church again mainly for her. I find the bible fascinating but some of the early stories as far fetched. I do not believe though that people won’t just start believing because they cling to darkness. Religion can be quite alien to those who have not been brought up in it. Many would hear God’s word and find no conviction to repent when they feel that their lives are just fine.

The people who wrote the bible made sure to include many parts where they predict that there will be some people who don’t believe what is written within. So every time when I state that I’m an atheist some christian quotes the bible and points to it as the proof that the bible is authentic since it predicted my atheism. Observing such behaviour only further cements my atheism and makes those who believe look like even bigger fools.

Zod, The opposite of belief isn’t atheism? It’s idolatry……The people in Corinth when Paul showed up had a list of things they worshiped, power, wealth, intelligence, sex, youth, beauty, luck, music, healing, comfort, and more. Our society today worships these same things. We have even streamlined worshiping now to “Ourselves”!!!! Mortals worshiping mortals. We then become like what we worship…….taylor swift, Justin beeber, football teams, golf pro’s etc…….We stop honoring God and his ways, only to worship idols……Ever wonder why our teenage girls are trainwrecks these days with high suicide rates…….wrong identities with no solid foundation in Christ……..hhhhhhmmmmmmm

So if you’re an atheist, Zod, and you found this article almost one year later after it was first published, then I have to come to the conclusion that you were searching for something on Google that led you to this article. What was it that you are searching for, if I may ask?

Love not division, wasn’t that the reason Jesus was sent down to deliver that message from his heavenly father? Take a look around and not much love but mostly division??? 50% divorce rate, STD’s killing millions every year, corruption in our government, which is out of control. Global tension at an all time high, enough to scare anyone. The bible gives clues on life after death and has predicted the future with prophecy that has been fulfilled. Geologist keep uncovering more and more documentation that wars documented in the bible did happen. Every geology college in the country has a bible they use for research. There is more documentation that Jesus existed than George Washington. So if you don’t know, Agnostic, then George must not have existed???? Documentation says we know Jesus lived, walked, talked, lived, preached, and did these things. You either believe or you don’t? Most of the population doesn’t bother to learn for themselves. My favorite pastor thinks there are no agnostics, rather idolaters, who put their trust in education, wealth, men, sex, love, luck, beauty, power, self-sufficiency, and that’s what they worship. My thoughts are why don’t more people do the homework from themselves? If life is going well and they are wealthy, why would they give anything up and choose to just go on living exactly the way they want to live? Now, the event or miracle I have witnessed and many people have witnessed changes this whole conversation?????

most answers i get from christians is their fear of going to hell as the most compelling reason. LOL all the other reasons come from scripture (steped on by man to justify their life or to control the masses) .. god could be real or not, but christians are not any less of a sinner or evil than non Christians.. in most cases Religion has justified (and still does) some of the worst events in history.. yes the virtues of religion is admirable but the methods have been used to be oppressive.

Yes and no, depends on what Christians you are listening too…..??? Scripture tells us that the wisdom of the almighty is beyond human comprehension? The ways of the self willed man is crooked? Maybe find out for yourself, as no man can seem to prove he is or isn’t? There are committed families that pass down the biblical truth and I see them flourish, like the lamp on top of the mountain, they live like they preach and believe. My experiences show me that if I ask for something within his will, his character that further exposes who is through my life, he grants my requests. Strong holds, bad habits, fear, anxiety, resentments…..if I ask him to take it, he does. I think people are ignorant and self-centered and the world wants to live how they want to live. Bravo to the jet setting CEO that grabs the golden ring and trades the old bag or now days the old geezer in for a more exciting partner, no matter what the family goes through. Just be happy, at all costs, that’s your right!!! You have earned it, you work hard and life is short. Sounds great but doesn’t make for a very loving world that will live in……More love…….Were all so wrapped up in sin management, but it’s really a love problem. When his love is let in, it takes over and the sin fades away……

Jesse, pretty lofty statement without much thought behind it?? If you read the blog, most people believe there is a higher being, they simply don’t want to give up the way they are living and walk in obedience? If they believe and follow that means they have some big changing to do and that takes work, study, prayer, serving, putting others first, tithing and giving of their finances……sounds like work……I would rather drink beer and watch my favorite pro football team on Sunday than show up at a church work party that makes a big impact to the needy in the community. Easier to look at the mistakes some Christians make and do nothing? Besides, what would I do about my live in girlfriend?? or maybe I would have to stop dancing at the strip club where I make 2000.00 a week, easy money, and have to get an education and worthy job???

Lord, Father God in Heaven, In the Name of Jesus, I pray for every single person who shared their thoughts and belief. Bless them all. I pray for unbelievers to touch their heat, mind, body, soul, and spirit. I believe that if you want to change the person heart, they can not say “NO” to you Oh Lord, In Matthew 8; 28/32 even demon begged you, and obey to you, and commanded them to come out the man. Bless Peter also Lord who made this things happen to share the good news. In Jesus Name I pray Amen. May the Lord Bless you all. And Thank you.

This is the reason why I hate sharing the gospel. Everybody i encounter hates Jesus. I tried doing Evangelsm in the local community college and I got made fun of and laughed at by people, and they called me a “retard” and “loser” and a “ph*got” Everybody hates Jesus. On one website, we are not even to allowed to share the gospel with people who are ALREADY suicidal. 99.9% of the worlds population HATES JESUS. and there is no such thing as a person who is 25-37 yrs old who is in love with JESUS. Everybody hates Jesus. I have been laughed at by family members and friends and I no longer want to share the gospel anymore. I hate sharing the gospel. Maybe it was appropriate in the 1990s and early 2000s but not anymore. If they dont want the gospel and they go to hell its thier fault not mine.

Sam, if you’re comment is true that “everybody hates Jesus” then how do you account for the thousands of people who accept Christ every day? Those are examples of people who love Jesus, don’t you think?

I’m an agnostic. I’m honest enough to say that the existence of God never has been, and never will be, proven or disproven. I’m open to both possibilities. Here’s the thing: if someone today could prove beyond the slightest doubt that God does or doesn’t exist, it wouldn’t matter to me. I wouldn’t change the way I live my life. I know that I am an honest, moral, ethical, loving, compassionate human being. And the beliefs I have that run contrary to (some people’s interpretations of) God’s will, I stand behind unflinchingly. Pre-marital sex is not a sin. Homosexuality is not a sin. The story of creation has been totally debunked by science. Every fiber of my being tells me these things are true, right along with logic and rational thought. Here’s the other part: if God is so cruel and arbitrary that he refuses to let good people who were raised in a different faith, or who were unable to find faith for themselves (like me) be saved, but he’ll let an unrepentant, bigoted, mean-spirited, lying pedophile like Roy Moore into heaven, then he’s not a god worthy of my devotion You can keep him.

Ed,
There is more documentation that Jesus walked, preached, performed miracles, dies and then seen by 500 witnesses alive and well, resurrected, than George Washington crossing the Delaware or Alexander the Great. The cross and the empty tomb is your proof…..Jesus was here to show us love and forgiveness of sin. No one, walks sin free and the path to salvation is narrow….We all get free will and our opinions on marriage, sex, money, homosexuality, but where do we draw the line? Scripture says the wages of sin is death, and pretty clear on all those issues. Look around and you can see the death from sin in many ways, aids, divorce, shattered children, 2 million dead from sexually transmitted diseases last year, unrest, racism, suicides killing our young college children, 60% divorce rate, corrupted government officials, sexual scams, women brutalized in the work place, adultery in marriage now common place??????? And it’s getting worse!!! Lastly, do you realize scripture gives away secrets to our scientists??? Scripture reveals the world is round and the air has weight……I will let you find them in the word to read it for yourself. What you are not grasping is GRACE, and when you see it, you won’t want to sin any longer and it won’t be a fight for right and wrong. Grace eliminates all prejudice, has it’s own justice, and goes beyond our human comprehension? The almighty is on the throne and he wants you and me to walk in righteousness, through his Grace and forgiveness. Like a lion, who doesn’t loose sleep over what the gazelle thinks, God isn’t too upset about your silly little messes and opinions……He would like to share with you the glory that you alone were uniquely designed to accomplish…….No one has your fingerprints and you were hand crafted like no other, for a purpose. Maybe you want to ask him to reveal what that glory is??

Craig, it’s unfortunate that you grouped AIDS in with the “wages of sin”. You should know that the great majority of AIDS victims have gotten the disease through non-sinful means (sin used here based on what I assume is your definition).

As for fingerprints, what’s so amazing about that? No two people have the exact shape and weight of any of our organs. No one has the same face except identical twins and even they have differences, or the same eye construction which is why the eye is used for identification purposes in some software. Craig, we’re all different people, duh. What’s interesting is how much appearance variance there is in humans when compared to other animals.

You are alleging that the times today are worse than ever but, in fact, this isn’t true. What’s true about today is the increased destructive force of our weapons and economically based fallout (pollution, green house gasses, etc.) which now threaten the world and its lifeforms. Additionally, the increased globalization (interactions, travel, trade on a global scale) allow for transmission of diseases on a potentially larger scale (but there’s lots of potential good about globalization if we can learn to live together on a legal/rational basis). The evil side of humans has been with us since recorded history. It’s usually based on greed, selfishness, and artificially (or culturally) implanted boundaries that may foster we/they issues, ignoring the fact that we are all connected on many levels. Some of the other sins you’ve mentioned may be sins in the Bible but, in a practical sense, they aren’t considered sins in secular society, nor have some of them (homosexuality for instance) created any real measurable deficits is our social order. Nevertheless, they too have been with us since recorded history.

Religious thinking is just another form of mankind’s attempt at making sense of it all and, to a certain extent, it works well (psychologically, in terms of assuaging our human psychological needs) but so do other systems and all of the to various extents, none of which is perfect because, after all, we are not perfect (whatever that means). It’s obvious that you have been conditioned to accept a certain level of religious thinking as it has probably been the primary method used in raising you from birth, or perhaps some other aspect of your life led you to accept your particular viewpoint. But you should know that truth is a funny thing, especially when it’s mostly based on opinion. Your historical proofs are mostly based on words written by men (God inspired or not…we can only quote others who have an opinion on the subject) and, in some respects, it’s circular in its reasoning. For instance: the Bible is completely true and the proof is that it says so in the Bible. Need I say more? I will. So, you say Jesus is or did this or that and your proof is the Bible. See where I’m getting at?

Having stated all the above you should note that I chose to believe the truths of the Catholic Church because I promised I would. That may, at times, be the downside of valuing being a man of my word. Yeah, it may be tongue in cheek at times, but it’s my choice. Still, I don’t pretend to think that it’s all absolute truth or that everyone needs to believe it too.

I agree 100% that there is irrefutable evidence that Jesus was a real person, and that his message of treating each other with honesty, dignity, respect, mercy and compassion was profound. I also don’t doubt that he allowed himself to die on the cross in an attempt to absolve us all of our sins.

Beyond that, I’m highly skeptical. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. The accounts of highly superstitious people who were strongly predisposed to believe in Jesus’s divinity and who lacked the skills to view any of his miracles with a critical eye don’t reach the level of “extraordinary proof” to me. I’ve “seen” magician Chris Angel walk through the side of a Brinks armored truck. I know it’s just a brilliant illusion, but I have no idea how he pulls it off. If a modern illusionist can fool me, how hard would it be to fool someone 2,000 years ago, especially when they desperately wanted to be fooled?

I’m not saying that Jesus wasn’t immaculately conceived, or that he didn’t rise from the dead. Perhaps those accounts are 100% accurate. I’m just saying that those are the most extraordinary claims ever made in the history of humanity, and the proof of their validity isn’t solid enough to just accept them as the truth.

As to your second point of where we should draw the line, I think that’s pretty clear. Any activity that is harmful to anyone, including the perpetrator, is wrong. Adultery hurts the family of the cheating spouse. Corruption hurts everyone. Harrassment or assault, sexual or otherwise, hurts the victims specifically and society in general as women or other persecuted groups are marginalized and cannot fully contribute to society.

I don’t see responsible, consensual, premarital sex as having a victim. I absolutely don’t see how two people being in a homosexual relationship hurts society. I could go on about that point, but I’ll let it rest there for the moment. I suspect we’ll have to disagree on that one.

As for your contention that corruption, adultery, sexual assault, racism, STDs and suicides are new problems, or problems on the rise, brought on by our increasingly secular society, I disagree. All of those things have been with us as long as we’ve been a civilization, and they’ve been every bit as commonplace. We just never talked about them. What’s changed recently isn’t the frequency of those things, it’s our awareness of those things. Mass media and the internet are allowing more people to share their stories broadly and to shine a light on the perpetrators. More people are finally becoming comfortable enough to share their stories without fear of being stigmatized or labelled as liars. More people, women especially, who used to be trapped in horrific marriages because they had no options to leave those marriages and support themselves, now have the means to escape from those situations.

If Grace eliminates all prejudice, why do you remain prejudiced against gay people, or people who follow different faiths? I’m glad that you’ve found faith and grace. Hell, I’m jealous of you in that regard. But don’t believe for a second that you don’t still hold onto many prejudices.

As for me asking God to reveal Himself to me, or to reveal what my purpose is: been there, done that. I’ve prayed in earnest countless times for those two things. I’ve surrendered myself to him. I’ve sat in church for countless hours listening to long-winded sermons and singing those awful church songs. God’s utter lack of a response to my prayers tells me everything. Either he doesn’t exist, he doesn’t want me to be saved, or he’s just cruel and arbitrary. I’ve done what I can to enter into a relationship with Him; now it’s His move.

Ed,
Thanks for the transparent conversation and honesty……Wow, that is refreshing!!! I am with you on hearing God’s answers and sometimes things that i have prayed for, my marriage, to work, didn’t happen? I now see some channels of love have opened up new doors for me to experience, so maybe the answer was no, for my protection? Waiting and trusting the lord is not an easy thing to do and i don’t always get answers? What keeps me strong in the quiet times is the fact that i have seen him answer prayers and move in my life, and there is no getting around it, it was him!!! The funny thing, talking about the gay movement, i get hit on all the time and most of the time, i am not even aware of it, until the proposition comes out, and i feel funny about it. I have no problem with any of it or what people do to feel connected. My love for people runs deep and i don’t anyone to be left behind and know God has removed a huge burden off me when it comes to Sex, Lust, the whole needs thing. What i am sure about, if my prayers are directed for the greater good and the kingdom, he seems to move much quicker than if i pray for something more trivial. Happy Hollidays

Ed,
Re-read your response and there was more to respond to……I agree that some relationships were horrible and needed to end. God says know my precepts and my ways. Bind my ways around your neck….What i have found that answers to complex decisions or challenges we face are all there in his word. How do i respond or which way do i go. Spending the last 2 1/2 years reading and hearing everything i can get my hands on, about him, has given me wisdom and insight to make much better choices. Walking in obedience is not so much a burdensome chore but rather a response to his love and what breaks his heart is starting to break mine because i know him more? Does that make sense? Lastly, maybe go all in with your life??? If you believed Jesus walked and gave us that perfect role model, and then was nailed to a cross and rose again? Wow, who could do that? If you believe that, then maybe believe all the accounts of the miracles he performed. Your not alone, even the Jewish leaders were skeptical about him healing the old man at Bethesda? They questioned him after and would not buy his story even though he stood healed right in front of him after they saw him lay on a mat crippled for 28 years. They even went to his parents for answers and they said why don’t you ask him. We all lose faith at times and that is why we need church and believers to hear transformations in others to keep us strong. There is a battle for your soul, a war going on to destroy you……

I’ve been reading this discussion for 2 years now, and have been impressed by the mostly thoughtful and honest responses on both sides. I must say however that it’s very repetitive on the non-theist side with respect to morality.

No one ever said non-theists can’t be moral. Let’s put that to bed once and for all. The question of morality lies in who decides what is moral – you, society, or God. Evolutionary morality is purely subjective and could change thus its based on society. Phrases like “certain thing are helpful” or “this leads to progress or flourishing” are all subjective.

Non-theists who read the Bible and say that God is immoral commit 2 key errors. They are somehow making themselves the ultimate authority on what’s moral. But as we’ve seen, what’s considered moral changes depending on the individual or society.

The second error is that the Bible (which is largely for believers) contains prescriptive and descriptive accounts. Just because God has a morally sufficient reason for judging his own creation with death and suffering, doesn’t mean he wants us to take on the role of autonomous judge. It’s just descriptive. God’s prescriptive law is the guide to morality and it starts with having the Holy Spirit to guide our conscience.

Lastly, everyone has a conscience, but naturally in this fallen world, some are more marred than others. So yes anyone can be moral, but it’s the Holy Spirit living within you that helps to realign your morals to God’s will.

The point was just made that no one is suited to be the ultimate arbiter of morality other than God. I disagree. Most of God’s rules are rational: don’t kill someone, because someone, and society in general, are harmed when yu do that. Don’t commit adultery. Again, the spouse and family of the person who cheats is harming his family directly and undermining the institution of marriage.

But other rules aren’t rational. The most obvious example is homosexuality. If two consenting adults choose to enter a loving, sexual relationship with each other, who’s the victim? Nobody is. In fact, their relationship can even be beneficial to society. If one partner becomes informed, the other partner is there to take care of them, just like straight spouses do. If they marry, they could provide a loving, two-parent home for a child who needs an adoptive family. Morality can be based entirely on simple logic. If an action harms someone, it’s immoral. Meanwhile, as the insane, hypocritical supporters of Roy Moore have enthusiastically pointed out, apparently pedophilia is NOT a sin. On a related note, neither is slavery. I hope you can see the irony in that.

Just because something may benefit society, that doesn’t mean it’s right. Murdering a serial killer has an awesome benefit for society. That doesn’t mean murder is all of a sudden right. That’s called “the end justifies the means”. And now we are getting into more complex topics on morality.

With regards to homosexuality, once again, no one in their right mind is arguing that homosexuals can’t have a loving relationship with benefits to society. I tend to believe that a child with gay parents is in a much better situation than with no parents or non-lovin parents, but that’s besides the point.

You are in effect saying that God is only truly moral if he conforms to your understanding of what is good and right. Perhaps God has a important reason based on His design of the family institution to command heterosexual relationships. Even if we disagree with Him, to not believe he exists based on this would be catastrophically illogical. We are finite – God is infinite.

And we’ve come full circle to the original point of the article. Belief is highly based on what suits people. Sin, or redemption. I choose redemption.

Fair enough. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I’m glad for you that the Bible, or at least your interpretation of it, aligns so well with what you intrinsically know to be right or wrong. I’m also glad for you that this helps to give your life structure and purpose. But that doesn’t work for me. So until or unless God communicates to me directly and personally, which He has never done in the 50 years I’ve been around, i’m going to just keep on treating others with respect and compassion and see how that works out for me.

A long time ago I read a quote that I still remember:

“If I’m to be damned, let me be damned for who I am, not for who others want me to be.”

I have no trouble looking at myself in the mirror or sleeping at night, because I’m comfortable that I’m behaving, and treating others, in a moral and ethical manner.

Ed,
God’s commandments are there to protect us as well……Aids came about because man was having sex with animals? If were wrong about that and man created it, it’s still man behaving poorly. I know the gay community wants everyone to embrace them and they can provide a solid family environment, so can the polygamist??? The cry for same sex marriage and homosexuality is they were born that way or wired that way? Now we need to give the pediphile and narcissist his day in court, because they were born that way or wired that way??

Craig, you really ought to, every time, do some simply accessible and basic research before you state something so easily refuted. Chimpanzees in West Africa are the source of HIV infection in humans. The chimpanzee version of the immunodeficiency virus (called simian immunodeficiency virus or SIV) most likely was transmitted to humans and mutated into HIV when humans hunted these chimpanzees for meat and came into contact with their infected blood. Over decades, the virus slowly spread across Africa and later into other parts of the world. So humans didn’t create it and, as far as I can tell, didn’t “behave poorly” also. Wrong guess Craig.

Polygamy and child molestation is illegal, as opposed to homosexual behavior. Polygamy for supposedly practical and religious reasons, child molestation due to the fact that a child is neither mature enough or able to responsibly decide on their own sexual behavior. So, your analogy to homosexuality is specious.

Harvey/Dave/Ed,
Awesome discovery and heartfelt communication!!!! I joined a men’s group where we share each others hopes, dreams, failures and fears, using the biblical scripture to see what the almighty says about it. Men don’t do enough of this and we should because we all lack understanding, we don’t celebrate well, or reach out to each other enough because of our macho pride. Think Dave is right and here we are back at the beginning of why people won’t believe or look to the scriptures for guidance, truth, and a way to live. What I have seen in others and myself is transformation!! The bible shows the good, bad, ugly, and the beauty of transformation, which has brought me much joy and has had an impact on the people around me. This discussion is not new but God looks at the heart and changes the heart. Dave mentioned the wholly spirit that does a number from the inside out and sinners are transformed into saints!!! The mind debate looses importance and LOVE and heart steps in and breaks down walls, strongholds, logic, addictions…..Amen

What I’ve noticed about the religious is a high rate of narcissism. When you can provide a well thought out and informed reason as to why you refute the thousands of other gods that people have believed in, then you can understand why someone does not beliebe in your god. You would not argue with a Hinduist about their multiple gods and I’m sure they ask why you believe in Jesus instead of Vishnu. I am not so arrogant to think humans are even capable of understanding where and how we came to be, nor will I subscribe to a religion that promotes narcissism in people where they think it’s okay to paint themselves as superior because they think their interpretation of the world is right. Pride is a sin by the way. It’s seems Christians have yet to learn humility from Jesus.

It really comes down to whether or not you believe the bible is the divine inspiration of God’s word. If you do, he says that you shall put no other God’s above me…….There are all types of believers but if you want to see the real deal, with no pride, and all humility. Read the short book of Philippians………it shows the heart of Paul, taught love and humility and truth, by Jesus himself……Powerful

I think I understand where you’re coming from and I’ve experienced what you’re referring to in the past. I’d like to welcome you to this community. Hopefully, you’ll find that a bunch of us here aren’t so narcissistic but are more loving and tolerant of all people, even if they have different views than our own.

I for one am very respectful of everybody’s views and it’s why I founded this blog so that we can spark a healthy conversation about important topics.