Saw the pilot and thought it was great. Really good premise that they can do a lot with, IMO. And I've love Kevin Bacon ever since he danced his way into my heart in Footloose.

replaying the pilot on Friday the 25th, I believe.

The Americans

Looks really interesting to me. I'm generally a fan of period shows like this. I was disappointed a few years back when that 70s thing with Michael Imerioli's facial hair shit the bed and got cancelled. Russian Spies in the 80s has a lot of potential. And this show has one of the more effective ad campaigns in recent memory.

Saw the pilot and thought it was great. Really good premise that they can do a lot with, IMO. And I've love Kevin Bacon ever since he danced his way into my heart in Footloose.

replaying the pilot on Friday the 25th, I believe.

The Americans

Looks really interesting to me. I'm generally a fan of period shows like this. I was disappointed a few years back when that 70s thing with Michael Imerioli's facial hair shit the bed and got cancelled. Russian Spies in the 80s has a lot of potential. And this show has one of the more effective ad campaigns in recent memory.

Starts Wed the 30th on FX

Anyone else in on these shows?

I watched The Following and saw a lot of potential. It wasn't the best pilot episode I've ever seen, and there definitely were some tonal problems, some writing issues and motivation questions, but I'm hoping these all get worked out in the next few weeks.

Bacon was the best part of the show, and the last few scenes, while overdone, set up the rest of the season nicely.

"The Americans" = promising. Lots of plot to develop, great supporting cast. Unusual seeing Russell cast against type as a ruthless, nasty Commie. Extremely startling to see her go down on a DoJ agent in the first two minutes—pretty graphic, even for FX. Not much fun to watch her work her many evils...but an intriguing, interesting main character, fer sure.

And aside from Comrade Roethlisberger of the KGB, the show is did a great job at portraying the Soviets as the protagonist, and the real Americans as the corrupt capitalist pigs they are.

I like the way they created some friction between the couple. The way that Phillip was coming around to the American way of life and realizing that they're not the big, bad enemy like they're portrayed. But, Elizabeth is still staunchly loyal to the motherland. I would like to see that angle continue, as it would make things really interesting between the two of them.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

FUDU wrote:I liked the first episode, but fell asleep with 10 minutes left, can you fill me in, was it significant to the next episode?

Spoiler alert: (highlight quoted text to read)

Not sure if you saw Elizabeth talk to the General, but he said that the jobs were going to get more risky and more dangerous. After that scene, the neighbor from across the street, the guy who works for the FBI, broke into the spies' garage after dark and examined the car. He didn't find any evidence in the trunk and left. While he was in the garage, Phillip was standing in the shadows with a gun.

That was pretty much it, I think.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Keri Russell's character really is ice cold, even to their kids. Some of that might have been due to the guest in the garage, but still. Now by the end, after she, uhh, "rediscovered" Phillip, she loosened up a bit, even to the kids.

But what was the point of the dude who was pimping 13 yr olds, other then to say, hey this commie beats up American statutory rapist's, he aint so bad.

I guess I didn't realize you were being facetious because I can see where someone might form that opinion of the pilot, even if I don't agree. For the most part, I think they did, and will continue, to make sympathetic and unsympathetic characters on both sides.

I think we are supposed to like the married spies. I think we are also supposed to like the neighbor, although I'm don't thinnk we are supposed to root for him to figure it out.

I was a little disappointed that the neighbor snooped around the garage in that first episode. It was too soon. IMO it would have been better for him to come to his suspicions much more gradually. Even over the course of multiple seasons. Just look at how Breaking Bad handles a similar situation and how awesome it was.

As far as the weird rapie guy...I think that was just supposed to humanize the spy (I can't rememeber their names yet). He's a guy who loves his daughter just like any American does, and would do whatever any American dad would do if capable. It also illuminated the lies and deception he has to live with every day around the people that he loves. He had to stand there in the store and eat shit in front of his daughter, even though he had the capability to do something about it. That must be difficult.

I've heard others complain about that scene but IMO it served a purpose and was effective.

motherscratcher wrote:As far as the weird rapie guy...I think that was just supposed to humanize the spy (I can't rememeber their names yet). He's a guy who loves his daughter just like any American does, and would do whatever any American dad would do if capable. It also illuminated the lies and deception he has to live with every day around the people that he loves. He had to stand there in the store and eat shit in front of his daughter, even though he had the capability to do something about it. That must be difficult.

I've heard others complain about that scene but IMO it served a purpose and was effective.

Agreed. Earlier in the show, they had the scene in the motel room where Phillip wanted to have sex with Elizabeth and she wasn't on board with the idea. He mentions that they'll have to have kids at some point to make their relationship look as legitimate as possible. That ties in with the scene at the department store and him kicking the guy's ass.

Like moscratch said, it's humanizing him. He's also right that the Russian dude could have easily snapped that creep's neck in a millisecond, but had to show restraint.

Every scene has a purpose early on in the show. It's about character development. They have to get a rapport going between the characters and the audience because that's how shows have a long shelf life.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

I get the character development angle. I get the writers wanting to show the audience about how Phil needs to reign in his bad-ass. What I don't get is a 30 something pedophile hittin on a young girl in a crowded department store? Lots of different ways you could show his humanity, no?

And if you guys don't think that's stupid, then you have to agree with me on this one:

Who the hell fires up a charcoal grill for just two Effin wieners n buns???

waborat wrote:I get the character development angle. I get the writers wanting to show the audience about how Phil needs to reign in his bad-ass. What I don't get is a 30 something pedophile hittin on a young girl in a crowded department store? Lots of different ways you could show his humanity, no?

And if you guys don't think that's stupid, then you have to agree with me on this one:

Who the hell fires up a charcoal grill for just two Effin wieners n buns???

Maybe. Probably. It was certainly uncomfortable, I'll give you that.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

waborat wrote:I get the character development angle. I get the writers wanting to show the audience about how Phil needs to reign in his bad-ass. What I don't get is a 30 something pedophile hittin on a young girl in a crowded department store? Lots of different ways you could show his humanity, no?

And if you guys don't think that's stupid, then you have to agree with me on this one:

Who the hell fires up a charcoal grill for just two Effin wieners n buns???

waborat wrote:I get the character development angle. I get the writers wanting to show the audience about how Phil needs to reign in his bad-ass. What I don't get is a 30 something pedophile hittin on a young girl in a crowded department store? Lots of different ways you could show his humanity, no?

And if you guys don't think that's stupid, then you have to agree with me on this one:

Who the hell fires up a charcoal grill for just two Effin wieners n buns???

Yeah, that scene was silly, especially the way he peered around the corner of the house and then - poof! - he was on the other side of the grill. If he went all the way around the house, that was superhuman quick. Otherwise, he either has the power of invisibility or disappearance/reappearance.

I watched both the pilot and 2nd episode last night, and it's an OK show that feels like it wants to be a lot of other much better shows. I have my doubts whether they can advance the characters/plot enough to the point where I don't lose interest quickly.

waborat wrote:I get the character development angle. I get the writers wanting to show the audience about how Phil needs to reign in his bad-ass. What I don't get is a 30 something pedophile hittin on a young girl in a crowded department store? Lots of different ways you could show his humanity, no?

And if you guys don't think that's stupid, then you have to agree with me on this one:

Who the hell fires up a charcoal grill for just two Effin wieners n buns???

Yeah, that scene was silly, especially the way he peered around the corner of the house and then - poof! - he was on the other side of the grill. If he went all the way around the house, that was superhuman quick. Otherwise, he either has the power of invisibility or disappearance/reappearance.

I watched both the pilot and 2nd episode last night, and it's an OK show that feels like it wants to be a lot of other much better shows. I have my doubts whether they can advance the characters/plot enough to the point where I don't lose interest quickly.

I'm enjoying the show enough that some of the things you guys have pointed out aren't really bothering me -- at least not yet.

I really loved how Phil screwed with the housekeeper this week, and the look on the Russian's faces when they heard about Reagan creating the missile defense system.

I agree Jmbd. Truman's buddy is a great character so far. The guy is playing it well, also. I'm never quite certain what he's thinking during his scenes with Philip yet. Was the caviar and beer scene him being suspicious? Or just neighborly? A bit of both?

And getting that mole inside the KGB is a great move IMO. So far I really like the show. Liked episode 2.

Hiko - you say it wants to be a lot of much better shows. I'm not sure how you can tell after 2 episodes that its not. Almost sounds like you decided before hand that its OK, and you're almost offended that it wants to be better than that. Fucking Bourgouise cunt.

motherscratcher wrote:I agree Jmbd. Truman's buddy is a great character so far. The guy is playing it well, also. I'm never quite certain what he's thinking during his scenes with Philip yet. Was the caviar and beer scene him being suspicious? Or just neighborly? A bit of both?

And getting that mole inside the KGB is a great move IMO. So far I really like the show. Liked episode 2.

Hiko - you say it wants to be a lot of much better shows. I'm not sure how you can tell after 2 episodes that its not. Almost sounds like you decided before hand that its OK, and you're almost offended that it wants to be better than that. Fucking Bourgouise cunt.

Look who's going all Peeker about a dumb FX show.

It reminds me of other shows that are better, shows that it probably aspires to be. It could still evolve into a really good show. Their characters are going to have to get a LOT more interesting though if that's to be the case. Because it's not like they have a lot of friends or co-workers that help advance the plot along like, say, The Sopranos. It's just them. Operating within a known history, so it's not like they can get assigned to assassinate Oliver North and we don't already know how that winds up.

Personally, I think they should ditch the kids and just make it a freakin' spy show. There's only so much you can do with Suburban Yuris.

Just a hunch, but I think Paige (the daughter) will play a pivotal role in upcoming episodes. The son, not so much — unless both kids start to get a whiff of what their parents really are. Can you imagine keeping such terrible secrets from your coming-of-age kids for any length of time? It'd be enough to drive any decent parents batty.

Enjoyed the second episode. When you think about Russian spies, you think of very methodical, emotionless people. These two are the opposite. The wife is more serious than the husband, but even she has her weaknesses. They're compassionate while still trying to do their job.

My guess is that at some point during this series that Phillip becomes a double agent with the help of the guy with the FBI from across the street. I think they've done a good job pushing the envelope while being on basic cable too. A lot of the shows that you could compare this to will probably be shows on premium cable that have a lot more freedom with the script, special effects, and imagery.

I'll keep watching. It's not like it's a waste of an hour of my day and it'd have to get significantly worse to become that.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

I'm hooked too...although I must admit I am a long-time devotee of the subject of Soviet espionage in the U.S. They are starting to bring in more characters in the spy network...Gregory, the wife's former lover, and Claudia, the new supervisor, for example.

One thing I think they have done well so far is to depict the sincerity and devotion of the operatives to "the cause"...the utopian vision that they had imbibed of, and were working for, and that they were convinced was exemplified by the Soviet Union. If you've ever read "Witness" by Whittaker Chambers, or "Radical Son" by David Horowitz, you get some sense of how seductive that vision was (and is) for some people.

And if you're ever interested in reading the definitive scholarship on Soviet espionage in the U.S., search on the co-authors John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr at Amazon, and have at it. Also "The Haunted Wood" by Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Got to work on some of the Venona messages for a project in college. Everyone who thinks that we were just paranoid in the 50's-80's about the extent of the Soviet network in the US is nuts. That was some scary stuff.

The Sword and the Shield is pretty good, as is CIA Spymaster. Gets into the Nosenko stuff, which is really interesting to me.

I understand how someone could be a hard core believer and live in the same country that made them into a hard core such as Russia, N. Korea, and Iran, but it amazes me that more of these spy's didn't defect when they got to the US and realized how much better the standard of living was, and how much bull shit their native country fed them. I know today the N. Koreans have to essentially hold the spy's family hostage IOT keep them from defecting, I wonder if the Russians did the same thing, or if it was just a steadfast belief in the Soviet system that kept them in line.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

Govbarney wrote:I understand how someone could be a hard core believer and live in the same country that made them into a hard core such as Russia, N. Korea, and Iran, but it amazes me that more of these spy's didn't defect when they got to the US and realized how much better the standard of living was, and how much bull shit their native country fed them. I know today the N. Koreans have to essentially hold the spy's family hostage IOT keep them from defecting, I wonder if the Russians did the same thing, or if it was just a steadfast belief in the Soviet system that kept them in line.

Many of the agents sent over here did just that. A lot of the successes were from "true believers" that grew up over here, or scumbags who wanted money/girls/drugs (Hansen, Ames) etc.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

I'm liking The Americans more and more, and The Following less and less.

The following is just stupid ridiculous. And they've established that they have no qualms about taking the laziest route possible to get themselves out of corners that they've painted themselves into.

We're what, 6 episodes in, and they are already making any person or police officer as possibly in on it. I'm sure they're going for a "Wow, we can't trust anyone! This is so interesting!" reaction. The actual reaction is that the whole thing is stupid and pointless and lazy.

I'm not really sure on the whole scripted series stuff on History Channel thing. It's already too much they have all this reality TV bullshit..... i'd like some, you know, historical documentaries on historical events.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I'm not really sure on the whole scripted series stuff on History Channel thing. It's already too much they have all this reality TV bullshit..... i'd like some, you know, historical documentaries on historical events.

And not Monster Hunter, Ancient Aliens, or Ice Truckers.

H-i-s-t-o-r-y.

I get that. It's weird that the History Channel is dong scripted TV. I just figure that if it was on AMC or something I'd be watching. So I'm not going to NOT watch just because its strange. From what I've seen it looks well done.

I'm definitely in for The Vikings tonight. This will be a capper to my day of drinking scotch and watching Star Trek II and III back-to-back with some friends while my wife decides to go shopping.

And MS, full agreement on your assessment of The Americans and The Following. The Americans just keeps getting stronger while I gave up on The Following sooner than you did because I saw the writing on the wall, and predictably, it was in blood. Go figure.

Zero Hour: I knew ABC was either going to screw it up, cancel it, or screw it up and cancel it, so I never watched one minute of it. Anyone here give it a shot?