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Hi,We are dominant clan on Fingal. Usually we kill all bosses when they up.Some people tried to manipulate other people and tried to destroy our clan. Result: lots of people left our clan and joined rival clan, but they realized later there are not everything just happy and fun. So they moved to epona.On Fingal more smaller clans exist. If they work together they can beat us at bosses but i see that they fight each other too.Yes we are organized so we arrive to bosses in time.Work together with other clans.Problem on fingal they don't want to work each other.Envy lock all dl and edl what they can and sell drops in ah.Pk hunt dl and edl too, they win or lose at bosses.Bf - i rare see them at bosses. They don't work with pk. Some of them came from pk bc they had problem with pk.Moo - hunt everything what up, doesn't matter need or not. Don't sell drops. If someone join moo then they have access for all drops what moo has.On lvl 170 they get full dl armor, on lvl 215 full edlWeapon are harder bc of pk.

We like every competition except manipulation. We like lock battles too.

I feel like there needs to be real considerations before taking my advice... What are you attempting to change about the dominant clan or the server?

I'll be straightforward and say that my plan was a success and worked. We lost a few good people, but also got many more active. Deception isn't a tool to use because you just want to use it and start fights. That's not the point. You use it because your server NEEDS to change. It NEEDS to be taken on a different path or it will suffer later on.

But don't assume that my method is going to do everything for you. It really helps and is a good foundation to get pieces moving, but as I wrote in #6, it's the more outspoken players that will really lead the charge. The players that have the respect, that have the following you may not have, will essentially make the plan work.

If you're trying to change a minor thing or form some type of inclusion method with outside clans, then you should find a way through leadership to bring about those changes. But there's no need to bring a clan to it's knees unless it's unwillingness to change is sacrificing too much.

Lucerin wrote:So you are advocating actual deception, maliciousness, manipulation, and being an all around bad human to attempt to unseat a dom clan?

This is the behavior of a sociopath. And any dom clan that has been around a while has had to deal with your type before.

If the dom clan is withholding drops from the rest of the world and preventing perfectly good people from being able to enjoy the game, then yes, they do deserve it. There are a good amount of dom clans that just cut off invites when they have enough people, or exile others just out of dislike for them(even when they haven't done anything wrong).

These tips have potential, and can help even out the odds. It's not like you are going to have much of a chance fighting a clan that is clearly better then yours, sometimes you have to get creative to make things happen.

You are justifying sociopathic behavior because a dom clan has built an organization that is winning, and they don’t give out their loot to others not in their clan?

This is mildly off-putting.

You want to change a dom clan? Be good enough to get in the clan. Earn your way up just like they did. Become a leader that people respect and value. Make the organization better. Change things because people want them changed, not because your feelings are hurt.

Or compete. Be the better organization. Be the place people want to see win. Their organization wasn’t made in a day. Yours won’t be either.

But in regards to this thread...

You know, manipulation and deception are also available. You can use that effort to sow dissent and discord to wedge a split in sects of the clan to hope it crumbles like the stellar individual you are. You, in a general sense, of course. I’m actually a bit disappointed this has been met with little criticism.

You are assuming that every group that fights to power does so for the right reasons. There has been plenty of cases in history and in game where this is not the case. They are not immune to being evil you know, and even using evil tactics against evil people can be a morally good thing. Note the repetition of the word evil. There are some worlds where the dom clan system does work, but there are also worlds where it does not due to corruption/exclusion. Maybe you haven't ran into this on your world, but I have on mine. Lugh used to be one of the best servers, but ever since people tried to turn it into a dom clan world it basically turned into trash. People are so stubborn about their drops, that they are willing to damage(and probably eventually kill) their world over them.

foximaxi wrote:Hi,We are dominant clan on Fingal. Usually we kill all bosses when they up.Some people tried to manipulate other people and tried to destroy our clan. Result: lots of people left our clan and joined rival clan, but they realized later there are not everything just happy and fun. So they moved to epona.On Fingal more smaller clans exist. If they work together they can beat us at bosses but i see that they fight each other too.Yes we are organized so we arrive to bosses in time.Work together with other clans.Problem on fingal they don't want to work each other.Envy lock all dl and edl what they can and sell drops in ah.Pk hunt dl and edl too, they win or lose at bosses.Bf - i rare see them at bosses. They don't work with pk. Some of them came from pk bc they had problem with pk.Moo - hunt everything what up, doesn't matter need or not. Don't sell drops. If someone join moo then they have access for all drops what moo has.On lvl 170 they get full dl armor, on lvl 215 full edlWeapon are harder bc of pk.

We like every competition except manipulation. We like lock battles too.

I saw manipulation won't help. Just lost of ppl left server bc of it.

Not sure I understand a lot of this, but from it I do get 2 points.

1. The perception of at least some dominant clans about what is going on in smaller clans and why their monopoly isn't challenged more is far different than the experienced reality of the smaller clans

2. They do keep everyone not in their clan from progressing to experience the second half of the game by (paraphrased a bit) "killing everything that spawns whether they need it or not" to ensure the players outside their clan don't get it, even if thlose people actually do need it.

The game shouldn't be structured in a way that allows a group of players to monopolize an entire server and prevent everyone on it from playing half the game unless they agree to allow that group to make the rules for everyone and control what everyone is allowed to do and must do in order to play. VR shouldn't support and encourage this behavior by forcing players to throw away everything they've worked for and purchased in order to get out away from such a server/situation once they've played long enough that they realize what's going on. If VR insists on allowing no transfers then they should at least adjust and increase the drop rates on some key bosses to give people a closer to fighting chance to challenge monopoly clans. Either that or do something specific to limit a clan's ability to dominate a server.

This is the problem. This is exactly what the OP is talking about. This is the reason people quit playing or start over on new servers. There is no real reason to do this because, let's be realistic, there are not enough new people downloading this game and choosing Fingal to play on to warrant hoarding all these drops in your clan's many banks. The only real reason dominant clans feels the need to kill all bosses.....even little ole' Aggy, is to prevent anyone else from being able to do so and progressing in any way. A video was just put up on YouTube called Battle for Fingal that pretty much shows exactly what you said "hunt everything...need or not" to be the real issue that is destroying servers where only one dom clan exists.

This is the problem. This is exactly what the OP is talking about. This is the reason people quit playing or start over on new servers. There is no real reason to do this because, let's be realistic, there are not enough new people downloading this game and choosing Fingal to play on to warrant hoarding all these drops in your clan's many banks. The only real reason dominant clans feels the need to kill all bosses.....even little ole' Aggy, is to prevent anyone else from being able to do so and progressing in any way. A video was just put up on YouTube called Battle for Fingal that pretty much shows exactly what you said "hunt everything...need or not" to be the real issue that is destroying servers where only one dom clan exists.

Ramsey's post exactly! VR, you gonna do something to solve this problem, or let lots of people keep leaving in frustration and the game keep dying slowly?

This is the problem. This is exactly what the OP is talking about. This is the reason people quit playing or start over on new servers. There is no real reason to do this because, let's be realistic, there are not enough new people downloading this game and choosing Fingal to play on to warrant hoarding all these drops in your clan's many banks. The only real reason dominant clans feels the need to kill all bosses.....even little ole' Aggy, is to prevent anyone else from being able to do so and progressing in any way. A video was just put up on YouTube called Battle for Fingal that pretty much shows exactly what you said "hunt everything...need or not" to be the real issue that is destroying servers where only one dom clan exists.

There's always going to be that one item that clans want and if they're motivated then they're going to strive to get that, the "need or not" is a just cheesy quote, it's YouTube don't take any of that serious because it's core purpose is entertainment.You don't decide when a clan stops bossing they do.

KillerFrost wrote:I’ll only speak for my clan of underdogs. We simply don’t give up. We keep pushing, against odds that become less and less in our favor every single day. My clan has fought for years, it’s leaders know nothing else. My fellow clansman, they know nothing else. We log for every unox due and we try to outlock. We log for proteus dues against T10 dg rangers decked out in gele and bt gear and we freaking try (assuming we have a decent group of course). Many days are rough, they make us question if any of it is worth it. If the millions we’ve invested in our toons are worth it. If all the struggling and pushing is worth it. Then we have good days, we out lock this clan of dg t10 over-geared toons. And it feels so damn good. We treat our clannies with love and respect, because we have one thing the dom clan, in all its grandeur and overwhelming mass has lost; the familial bond. We fight together, we cry together, we get frustrated together. And in the end, we are together.

What we do for our server goes largely unappreciated. We keep the competition alive. Without competition a sever is essentially dead, in my opinion at least. There is no joy in free gear, no real sense of accomplishment. The joy comes from fighting for it and earning it. From utilizing years old gear from years old bosses to the best of your abilities. From facing a group of toons geared like you never will be, and giving them a fight.

We lose. Often. But that hasn’t stopped us. It pushes us forward. It’s hard. Sometimes they whisper sweet nothings in our ears, seducing us with the promise of gear, luring us with their activity. But we know better. We ask not what our clan will do for us, we ask what we can do for it.

You guys do make bosses fun for us aswell

On a side note, might not win em all but you can always get something.

P.s

Spoiler!

t10 could be alittle better

Only two things I disagree with here: The assumption that there’s no bond between us because some of our clannies are pretty close friends even if some of us don’t get along and the “free gear” statement - just because bosses are easier for us now doesn’t mean they were always easy. True they are easier for us than the under dogs, but we spent months as well struggling on bosses with rage kills, zerging and failing before it became easy. Dominate clan doesn’t mean free gear falls into our laps without the same struggles and hard work over time. Even Unox started out as a rage kill that would often wipe us in the beginning. The under dogs only see the end results of the hard work getting to the point of dominance.

That being said I do like competition and to touch on another point of this thread I don’t really care about killing bosses we no longer need, although there’s a few in clan that chases items for their mains or alts that the bank can’t provide so it’s not really killing them to keep another clan from having it.

The suggestion to manipulate and destroy a clan from within is majorly messed up.