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while it sucks that there is an error, it's cool they are owning up to it and offering a free gift. I'm sure someone will make a 'how to fix' video for her. I'm assuming the gift will ship the with Frosta? A second head with a little bit different hair color would be neat or some bonus accessories. Still looking forward to her coming even if there is an error though.

I agree Seril. It is indeed an easy fix, and to get a freebie becasue of it, I don't mind at all. I am still looking forward to her.

I haven't read the whole thread, so someone may have already explained this, but I don't really understand exactly what they mean by all this. It says sub holders will be offered a full refund. I assume this means we send the figure back for the cash. Isn't this always offered to everyone for their defective products? Why even mention it? And why mention sub holders specifically?

And is the free gift just going to be automatically shipped to all sub holders? Do you have to send the figure back to get the gift? What's the deal?

Have you ever done manual labor which includes doing something mundane over and over again under a time limit?
I have. If you mess up from the start, you can actually do it all wrong. If someone else picks up where you left off, and see what you did, they do it wrong. It's not hard to get it wrong. -And not everyone got them wrong, there was a sample for the reviews that was assembled correctly.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with this problem. The parts are assembled according to how they are molded, something we've been told more than once; since ALL the Frostas are apparently wrong, it was a problem from that end, not the folks putting them together. There is a major, recurrent problem with translating the prototypes into the metal molds and designating which part is right or left, and that is something Mattel has yet to deal with.

A handful of figures with reversed parts is attributable to pure assembly error; a problem with every figure in the run is systemic, and falls flat at Mattel's feet.

And whatever the "gift" is, it will not involve anything tht requires new tooling. I would be very surprised if it involved anything other than a sticker sheet or something that doesn't need to be injection molded.

"I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

And whatever the "gift" is, it will not involve anything tht requires new tooling. I would be very surprised if it involved anything other than a sticker sheet or something that doesn't need to be injection molded.

^This. I expect an expired coupon for one of those DC toylines that don't exist any more.

I haven't read the whole thread, so someone may have already explained this, but I don't really understand exactly what they mean by all this. It says sub holders will be offered a full refund. I assume this means we send the figure back for the cash. Isn't this always offered to everyone for their defective products? Why even mention it? And why mention sub holders specifically?

Sub holders are mentioned specifically because they are "stuck" buying the figure as-is as part of their sub. They are being given the option to send it back for a refund if they wish.

Day-of buyers know up front that the figure has these parts reversed prior to buying it, so they are able to make an informed decision whether or not to buy her as-is. Unlike Snout Spout's trunk, which may be fine upon receiving the item but then break later on, the "defect" for Frosta is simply parts that have been swapped/reversed... it is known upfront and it is not something that is going to get "worse" over time, so they likely won't have the option to return the figure specifically because of the swapped fore-arm issue (they could only return it if there is some other defect entirely).

And is the free gift just going to be automatically shipped to all sub holders? Do you have to send the figure back to get the gift? What's the deal?

If my understanding is correct, the free gift will be automatically shipped to all sub holders, most likely with the figure. You do not have to send the figure back just to get the free item (whatever it is).

I talked to Scott about this and I like how they are handling it. The arms can be reversed without any reprinting necessary (Stinkor). Also, the reversal is less obvious on the females than the males. Not telling ANYONE how to feel, but this one is not as bad IMO. At least they are being upfront and telling us in advance so if it REALLY bothers you, and you don't want to USDA hair dryer to fix it, then don't buy it.

while it sucks that there is an error, it's cool they are owning up to it and offering a free gift. I'm sure someone will make a 'how to fix' video for her. I'm assuming the gift will ship the with Frosta? A second head with a little bit different hair color would be neat or some bonus accessories. Still looking forward to her coming even if there is an error though.

I'm doubting it will ship with Frosta, but with a future 2012 subscription item as i doubt the free gift will be produced by the time Frosta ships.

Originally Posted by Sword2Blanket

I haven't read the whole thread, so someone may have already explained this, but I don't really understand exactly what they mean by all this. It says sub holders will be offered a full refund. I assume this means we send the figure back for the cash. Isn't this always offered to everyone for their defective products? Why even mention it? And why mention sub holders specifically?

And is the free gift just going to be automatically shipped to all sub holders? Do you have to send the figure back to get the gift? What's the deal?

As stated by Dynamo it's because sub-holders are obligated to purchase Frosta initially. Sub holders will have the option to keep her or return her for a refund, where as day of buyers already know that she is assembled incorrectly and have the option of not purchasing her if they don't want her incorrectly assembled. The free item should ship with a future 2012 subscription order (I'm guessing December? but I have no idea, (it has taken them over a year and Slimer has yet to ship).

Originally Posted by Horde Lord

The apology gift should be getting a new toy QA who will stop screwing up in the future.

What??? A new toy Question & Answer? a new Quality Assurance(r)? I honestly have no idea what you mean?

I agree Seril. It is indeed an easy fix, and to get a freebie becasue of it, I don't mind at all. I am still looking forward to her.

Yeah. Because I have no customizer skills, I couldn't fix my Stinkor. I wouldn't trust myself with painting a figure. I'm sure my Stinkor looks better with "amazing forearms that pop!" than he would with "deco re-done by Ntumbuluku forearms." Because my TRU Stratos came with reversed legs and I was able to perform a heat & pop operation to fix it, even I will be able to fix Frosta. I think . . .

Okay since you like examples set in real life here's one:
Toyota makes a card with a faulty blinker, no biggie - but you have to change it earlier then the other one. They say they have looked into it and with that model it won't happen again. Next model arrives, same problem. Seeing as it is the next model this time, there were new workers there who did not know that they shouldn't use the old parts. Having been trained to work on that model the note about "don't use this blinker" got lost in the wave of information they had to assimilate.

Not that i particularly want to get involved in your argument, (that even the mods have complained about) but that is a terrible example!

When Car manufacturers have a defect in a vehicle across the entire range, they recall the vehicle and replace the defective parts, there are many examples of this

So, they ARE Defective according to the dictionary. Sure, I can easily fix this, but that is NOT THE POINT. I should not have to customize every figure that arrives due to lacking paint apps, reversed body parts, etc. Hopefully Mattel WILL Learn from this constant mistake (reversed parts) and find a way to AVOID it in the future.

Now with that said, I must applaud Mattel for taking a step in the right direction with Frosta and not Blame Ruben for it by calling it a "design decision".

FINALLY!! GLIMMER IS IN MY SHELF!! Crita is coming... Now I NEED SONGSTER! The Awesometastic Bard!

I have to disagree with Haladrel's analogy as well. My father's a retired Dodge truck assembly line worker. If a mistake is spotted at the plant, it's not let go, because the parts are designed to build onto other parts that were put on earlier in the line.

A recall analogy would be better, in that a bad part throughout a certain product line was caught post-production.

Classics TGR figures should be Filmation-based, but they NEED MORE COWBELL!

First, thank you for spending all that time replying to every word I have said. That said, I apologize because I cannot reciprocate because I don't have an hour to spare, but I'll do my best and again I do welcome the chance to clarify my points.

Originally Posted by Haradrel

Actually I can argue that it's not defective. It's put together wrong, not defective, if it was defective it would hinder or remove the ability to move the limb all together.

As others corrected you above, yes, it is defective. One can "argue" anything, but that does not make the definition of the word change.

Originally Posted by Haradrel

Name what? The things he's solved? Take a look through the Q&A's and you might get surprised. Your reasoning here is that "since it's his job he doesn't do anything for the brand."

Yes, that's what I was asking for. A list of what things he has solved. Because I keep seeing each issue come up over and over. This used to get us promises to address and fix them. Now others are just thrown under the bus. I encourage you to check out the posts from the turn of the year this year, and TG's mea culpas to the community and asking for one more chance to stop repeated errors like this. We gave it. Unfortunately, we were again mistaken to do so.

Originally Posted by Haradrel

Bad designs lead to bad implementations. You happily defend anything they have done without knowing details of their design and what they have actually done yet jump at the chance to attack toyguru when something beyond his power goes wrong. There's logic for ya.

You are entitled to your opinion, but 4H almost universally are praised here. The work they do on the prototypes, which Mattel transforms into figures. The problem has been, the last year or so, that the Mattel-side design work has been sub-par, on repeated occasions.

Perhaps you don't follow this line as closely as others, so if that is the case you may not realize that yes, in many cases we do know what is done by 4H and what is done by Mattel Design on quite a few figures. Drums on Sorceress? Mattel's design decision. Stinkor's reversed forearms? Mattel's design decision. Snout Spout's materials? Mattel Design. There are more. Scott has been very clear about this.

You might find it easier to keep up with those discussions if you subscribe to Scott's posts on Matty - you will get an email summary of all his posts so you don't miss out on details like this.

Originally Posted by Haradrel

One mistake in either the instructions on how to do it, or a misconception from one of the workers can make a whole batch of products be assembled wrongly.

Yes, but when it happens repeatedly, you take steps to keep it from happening again. We have been told repeatedly they have taken steps, but apparently they are not enough as we are here all this time later and it's still happening. In the world of business, contractors/vendors have responsibilities, and contracts to live up to. That includes minimum levels of performance. If the vendor cannot perform to the standard set forth, then there are consequences.

That is how business works. Not "oh well no one is actually accountable when different departments/vendors/contractors are involved, it's too hard!" That's why you have a manager (brand manager, product manager, project manager, what have you) who is in charge of coordinating all those different factors.

Originally Posted by Haradrel

You say "They" as if it is the same people doing the same mistakes. As far as I know this is the first female figure this has happened with.

The gender of the character is irrelevant. The reversal of arm parts is a known issue that has been going on for years, and each time we are told "steps have been taken" but those steps have not been enough. While you may not believe they have a responsibility to do this, they seem to - they just are lacking on the follow-through.

Originally Posted by Haradrel

The articulation, the action feature of the figure is not hindered.

I'm not quite sure why this is a recurring statement that seemingly is used to excuse this. As I said, I do not sit and play with the figures really, I pose them once and then enjoy them visually (and some, my favorite characters, like Frosta, I keep a MOC copy). When a visual defect like this is there, it detracts from the visual value of the figure. Not affecting articulation is the least of my worries - I have never once complained about lack of articulation - I care much more about how the figure looks when it's still. And this defect impacts that.

Originally Posted by Haradrel

If you want to see constant mistakes, try taking a look at other lines - I'm sure you'll get an eye opener.

Oh, I have. I have been collecting action figures for over thirty years. And I have never seen constant, repeated mistakes like this.

Originally Posted by Haradrel

Here we go. Entitled. No you are not entitled to anything except voting with your wallet.

Exactly. These constant issues are what are making people vote with their wallet. 2012 had 1/2 the subs of 2011, 2013 had half the subs of 2012. So only 1 out of 4 people who subbed in 2011 were still sub holders by 2013. Sure, many factors there - but one that keeps coming up over and over are these continued repeated quality errors.

So do you really want to encourage more people to walk away? Or should we be letting them know that these issues need to stop, and if the people who work on the brand right now cannot do that, then they should find people who can.

It's a crying shame that this line has come to this, because the figures the 4H design are so amazing. Getting figures we have been waiting 30+ years for. That they keep messing up things like this is heartbreaking.

I don't complain about aesthetic design choices of elements.

I don't demand all figures be designed the way I think they should - specific colors, etc.

I don't expect them to make a figure exactly how I think it should be made.

But I do expect them to deliver it assembled correctly regularly. Hey, I once got a Hordak with two left hands. It was annoying but it happens. Occasionally, there might be a paint scuff, or a mark on an accessory. Little one-off things happen. I think they add character, sometimes, LOL.

But when there is a massive error like this on assembling a figure, wholesale of the majority of the run, there is more than just human error there. It's not having enough checks and balances, as any good manager knows you need. And when it's happened a half dozen times or more, over a long period of time where it's been a known issue, at this point - when the line is verifiability hemorrhaging customers, it's just unfathomable.

Shall the gift be sent with Frosta next month?
BTW, this year subscribers did not get any extra benefit as last year stickers or shipping code discount as when BattleCat was released, so I think that it would go that route.
I'd love to get Keldor's extra sword, or even the chance to get TOD Sorceress.

Not that i particularly want to get involved in your argument, (that even the mods have complained about) but that is a terrible example! When Car manufacturers have a defect in a vehicle across the entire range, they recall the vehicle and replace the defective parts, there are many examples of this

Agreed-- ^ Comparing mass produced toys with automobiles, which go through very strict and rigorous safety testing and must adhere to standards the toy industry would balk at, is frankly like comparing apples to dragons.

That being said, I am completely fine with this snafu. Obviously like most I wish it weren't so, but it is and I'm willing to deal with it. And a free gift helps the medicine go down, so I'm fine with that.

Originally Posted by EtherianChronicles

First, thank you for spending all that time replying to every word I have said. That said, I apologize because I cannot reciprocate because I don't have an hour to spare.

Based on your rather verbose exegesis-like response EC... I find this comment rather dubious.