Alex Galchenyuk Thread 4.0 - The "I like it like That" Edition

So then, in your opinion, why don't more prospects take an entire season off? Since you seem to be implying that his bears no ill effect on their gameplay or their preparation for any future seasons, and all it takes is a few games and a couple of camps to get back on the same level as everyone else...why bother playing the games?

Um because you play to win games? You love the game? Is this even a serious question????

Actually yes, I do play sports, and I have even had to come back from a major injury.

Gally rehabed LAST SEASON and was able to make it back for the end of the regular season, and then the PLAYOFFS. He then spent the ENTIRE OFFSEASON getting stronger and practically lived on the rink. He then went through the rigors of the combine, several camps (biosteel, habs rookie camp, training camp) and has gone on to play 15 games thus far this season. Do you really think he is still rusty?

The point is the rust excuse is a bad one. He was no more rusty heading into the year than anyone else. But if you want to continue using it, go right ahead.

You admitted yourself that everybody starts the year rusty. That includes players that have played a full season the year before, and went through the same camps/training as Gally. Yet, you insist on saying the guy that missed a full season isn't rustier than the ones that weren't injured.
Way to be logical...

I still don't get the point of this discussion anyways. He was rusty early on, he's playing better now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan

Actually yes, I do play sports, and I have even had to come back from a major injury.

Gally rehabed LAST SEASON and was able to make it back for the end of the regular season, and then the PLAYOFFS. He then spent the ENTIRE OFFSEASON getting stronger and practically lived on the rink. He then went through the rigors of the combine, several camps (biosteel, habs rookie camp, training camp) and has gone on to play 15 games thus far this season. Do you really think he is still rusty?

I have a hard time believing you played elite competitive sport and went through a major injury that forced you to pretty much miss a whole year. Matter of fact, I just don't believe you. I have been working in the fitness world for the past 4 years and have dealt with athletes of various levels, so I know, it's not a few months of training that will compensate the loss of 6 months of competition.

If you had, then you simply wouldn't be holding the same opinion you currently have.
To think that training camps, where you pretty much just run tests, practice and play scrimmages, is the equivalent of a season where the intensity is much higher, the speed of the game is much faster, the threat of physical damage from opponents is incomparably greater, is just ridiculous.
Working out has absolutely nothing to do with a game. Nothing at all.

What's troubling the most though is that you agree he was rusty, but you fail to recognize what rust is. What you are arguing about is that Gally came into the season in great physical condition. Nobody is arguing against that, that doesn't mean he wasn't rusty.
Rust has more to do with your reflexes, your perception, accuracy, coordination, balance, agility, and these neurological attributes will ONLY get better when you are put in game situations. Nothing in practice will ever mimic the intensity of an actual regular season game, nothing. You will always have more time, less pressure, less dangers and more chances in a scrimmage. So, no matter how much you train in the off season, no matter how much you practice, when you're coming back from a huge injury, and didn't have enough time to get back on track before last season ended, you're going to be rusty in some aspects of the game.
The great news is that it's already improving well just 15 games in.

Um because you play to win games? You love the game? Is this even a serious question????

But theoretically, you don't have to play the games, right? You could take the year off and not miss out on anything in your development, and your skills or abilities would not be diminished in any way, or at least not significantly enough that a training camp and a few games played wouldn't be enough to correct it. Agreed?

Is Morgan Reilly rusty? Leafs fans are laughing at you guys in case you aren't aware, was just trying to save you guys from this self embarrassment....

Not that it wasn't obvious where you were heading with all this, but there it is! What does it matter whether Morgan Rielly was rusty or not? Just to show you how bad your argument is, Morgan Rielly came back and played 23 games last year. That means that last year alone, Rielly played as many games as Galchenyuk has in the last 2 years combined. Not to mention he played in the highly competitive Canada-Russia challenge this summer. He's a beast and he is his own player, has nothing to do with Galchenyuk.

It was plain as day that Gally was rusty at the beginning of the year, you described it yourself when saying he was pressing too much. He shook it off within a couple weekends and is closing in on the scoring lead. What's your deal? Seems like you got lost trying to make a point and put your back against the well. Now you're grasping at straws and don't even realize that you're arguing against yourself. Let it go!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Et le But

But what is funny is people thought he could have been NHL ready this year despite missing a year of development.

Yes that is sooo funny. You like laughing at your general manager and head coach? In fact our whole management team felt it was really up to Galchenyuk where he'd play this year. Let's laugh at them for being foolish enough to believe he "could" play in the bigs this year! Also, It's funny that you've come to the conclusion that he wouldn't be able to play in the NHL when we haven't even had a camp! Is that your defense mechanism? Are you scared of being letdown, hence refrain from having a real opinion? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Galchenyuk is already good enough to score and be effective in the NHL, and we have a hole in the line-up that is quite literally screaming Gally's name. Whether or not he makes the jump mostly depends on how he performs at camp. Period.

You admitted yourself that everybody starts the year rusty. That includes players that have played a full season the year before, and went through the same camps/training as Gally. Yet, you insist on saying the guy that missed a full season isn't rustier than the ones that weren't injured.
Way to be logical...

I still don't get the point of this discussion anyways. He was rusty early on, he's playing better now.

I have a hard time believing you played elite competitive sport and went through a major injury that forced you to pretty much miss a whole year. Matter of fact, I just don't believe you. I have been working in the fitness world for the past 4 years and have dealt with athletes of various levels, so I know, it's not a few months of training that will compensate the loss of 6 months of competition.

If you had, then you simply wouldn't be holding the same opinion you currently have.
To think that training camps, where you pretty much just run tests, practice and play scrimmages, is the equivalent of a season where the intensity is much higher, the speed of the game is much faster, the threat of physical damage from opponents is incomparably greater, is just ridiculous.
Working out has absolutely nothing to do with a game. Nothing at all.

What's troubling the most though is that you agree he was rusty, but you fail to recognize what rust is. What you are arguing about is that Gally came into the season in great physical condition. Nobody is arguing against that, that doesn't mean he wasn't rusty.
Rust has more to do with your reflexes, your perception, accuracy, coordination, balance, agility, and these neurological attributes will ONLY get better when you are put in game situations. Nothing in practice will ever mimic the intensity of an actual regular season game, nothing. You will always have more time, less pressure, less dangers and more chances in a scrimmage. So, no matter how much you train in the off season, no matter how much you practice, when you're coming back from a huge injury, and didn't have enough time to get back on track before last season ended, you're going to be rusty in some aspects of the game.
The great news is that it's already improving well just 15 games in.

I played AAA in the GTHL throughout my childhood and early/mid teens. I suffered a significant groin tear and missed the majority of a season. The issues I went through upon my return were mostly a) trusting my body, but that was able to happen gradually through practise, as well b) I felt tremendous anxiety and nerves for my first few games back on the ice. But in terms of "rust" of my skills, exhibition games and tournaments got the rust out of the way pretty quickly. It's like riding a bike, and if you watch Gally his skills certainly aren't rusty. He just wasn't playing well.

I don't doubt Gally had some "rust" when he returned last year for the playoffs. But to think he still has rust? Sorry, don't buy it.

Maybe it's semantics, and we simply are defining rust differently, but to me rust sounds like a giant excuse.

I played AAA in the GTHL throughout my childhood and early/mid teens. I suffered a significant groin tear and missed the majority of a season. The issues I went through upon my return were mostly a) trusting my body, but that was able to happen gradually through practise, as well b) I felt tremendous anxiety and nerves for my first few games back on the ice. But in terms of "rust" of my skills, exhibition games and tournaments got the rust out of the way pretty quickly. It's like riding a bike, and if you watch Gally his skills certainly aren't rusty. He just wasn't playing well.

I don't doubt Gally had some "rust" when he returned last year for the playoffs. But to think he still has rust? Sorry, don't buy it.

It's not a theory for you to buy.
You are either too hard headed to understand, or simply aren't reading the post properly.

I said rust has to do with neurological attributes, such as reflexes, timing, coordination, agility, balance, and throw confidence in there if you want. That's what rust is about.
The rust you keep fixating on is skills, and nobody ever talked about that. Nobody is doubting his skating, shooting or passing abilities. Nobody ever said his skills are rusty.
You can train hard to perfect those skills, which is what he's done, but then when it's time to put it all together during games, those neurological attributes (which are best practiced during games) need to follow. Games are the only thing that will improve that.
You won't get confidence back by doing a million training camps and scrimmages.
Playing 2 regular games and 6 PO games isn't sufficient to get rid of all rust.
It's not like there is a cap of 5-8 games, at which point, all rust is expected to be gone.
Some players will take more time to re-adapt.
If you acknowledge that neurological rust is very much a true occurrence, then I don't understand why you insist on saying 8 games is sufficient enough for Gally to be completely over it. It's not like you know the player or the guy.
Maybe it takes him more than just 8 games. I don't see why you have to say that it's pretty much impossible.

I played AAA in the GTHL throughout my childhood and early/mid teens. I suffered a significant groin tear and missed the majority of a season. The issues I went through upon my return were mostly a) trusting my body, but that was able to happen gradually through practise, as well b) I felt tremendous anxiety and nerves for my first few games back on the ice. But in terms of "rust" of my skills, exhibition games and tournaments got the rust out of the way pretty quickly. It's like riding a bike, and if you watch Gally his skills certainly aren't rusty. He just wasn't playing well.

I don't doubt Gally had some "rust" when he returned last year for the playoffs. But to think he still has rust? Sorry, don't buy it.

Maybe it's semantics, and we simply are defining rust differently, but to me rust sounds like a giant excuse.

Puck skills were never a problem here, it was timing and positioning that took him some time to get back. You could see him leaving on a breakout too early or late, or giving when he should go, and going when he should give. It lasted for a few periods not even games, so I don't think a "giant excuse" was needed, nor even existed.

Yes that is sooo funny. You like laughing at your general manager and head coach? In fact our whole management team felt it was really up to Galchenyuk where he'd play this year. Let's laugh at them for being foolish enough to believe he "could" play in the bigs this year! Also, It's funny that you've come to the conclusion that he wouldn't be able to play in the NHL when we haven't even had a camp! Is that your defense mechanism? Are you scared of being letdown, hence refrain from having a real opinion? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Galchenyuk is already good enough to score and be effective in the NHL, and we have a hole in the line-up that is quite literally screaming Gally's name. Whether or not he makes the jump mostly depends on how he performs at camp. Period.

What Et Le But is talking about is you had people in media/fans saying it as soon as he was drafted.

Management's view was ''we'll see what he does in camp, for all we know, he may be ready''. Which is just a trademark answer for any team that picks someone in the top 10 that isn't viewed as 100% NHL ready. Bergevin even said in mid-August he wasn't expecting Galchenyuk to make the jump and it would be difficult due to the time off: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Berge...039/story.html

If you had, then you simply wouldn't be holding the same opinion you currently have.To think that training camps, where you pretty much just run tests, practice and play scrimmages, is the equivalent of a season where the intensity is much higher, the speed of the game is much faster, the threat of physical damage from opponents is incomparably greater, is just ridiculous.
Working out has absolutely nothing to do with a game. Nothing at all.

If YOU ever played elite, you'd know training camps, scrimmages and exhibition games are a good notch above the first few regular season games in term of intensity and physical play. Kids are fighting for a spot on the club. But that's pretty much out of topic.

I do not agree with hogtownhabsfan on the rust issue, because I do think his timing was off, but I agree on the fact that if Galchenyuk isn't portrait like a god, you are a hater on this board. Galchenyuk is clearly an offensive first player but that doesn't mean he won't try hard on defense. Don't kid yourself, if the kid has an opportunity to score or create something, he won't dump and change because it is a long shift. If he can make a deke that will allow a good scoring chance, he will attempt it at the risk of a turnover. You don't see that kind of stuff from 2way players like Plekanec. And for the record, I am freaking happy that Gally is a think offensive first player.

Puck skills were never a problem here, it was timing and positioning that took him some time to get back. You could see him leaving on a breakout too early or late, or giving when he should go, and going when he should give. It lasted for a few periods not even games, so I don't think a "giant excuse" was needed, nor even existed.

Timing is often mentioned when NHL players talk about coming back from
injuries. Of course some of this timing is in the execution of skills.
But I imagine the troll knows this. He is not hating on Gallenchuk. He's
hating on Hab fans. That's why he keeps stressing our use of excuses. He
just hasn't noticed that "rust" has stopped being used as an explanation
for at least ten games now. And the fact that it stopped being used speaks
to it having been true, not merely an excuse. Dominating games, or 18 points
in the last 12 games, doesn't leave much room for excuses.

What Et Le But is talking about is you had people in media/fans saying it as soon as he was drafted.

LOL I don't wanna get back into this with you Marc, but Bergy said exactly what I feel. "It will be difficult because he didn't play much hockey last season, but we'll see how he does in training camp,". I never said it would be easy. I'm fairly certain that they hope he'll be in the bigs, but won't force it or put the extra pressure on him by saying that he will be. He was a top-3 pick and could have went higher even though he missed the whole season! He's definitely got the talent to make it out of the gate. I'd have a problem if he looked out of place and they rushed him, but that's nonsense because it would never happen!

I was arguing his line that it was "funny people think he could make it". It's not funny at all and I, along with others, obviously believe he could make it, but it's up to him. My personal opinion is that he is already a top-6 forward for Montreal but that is obviously not a fact, just my opinion based on everything I've seen. That includes his WJHC camp, Biosteel tourny, and regular season with the Sting. I've watched it all and there's no way someone can laugh at him being NHL ready. He's just too good.

Also from the article: "In fact, Hockey USA officials are worried he won't be available for the world juniors because they expect him to be in the NHL." Should we laugh at Hockey USA as well? Actually, maybe I don't want that to be answered LOL!

LOL, so now I'm a troll? 5 and a half years on this board, and nearly 3,000 posts, and I'm a troll for calling out this "rust" argument for being the shoddy excuse that it is?

On draft day I was hoping for Gally to be there at #3. He's one of the top 5 pieces in the entire organization...

His play thus far hasn't changed that but let's stop with the "he's rusty" business. It just looks bad. I guarentee if you were to ask Gally himself if he was rusty he would laugh in your face and probably be insulted by such an insinuation. But yea, I'm a troll...

LOL I don't wanna get back into this with you Marc, but Bergy said exactly what I feel. "It will be difficult because he didn't play much hockey last season, but we'll see how he does in training camp,". I never said it would be easy. I'm fairly certain that they hope he'll be in the bigs, but won't force it or put the extra pressure on him by saying that he will be. He was a top-3 pick and could have went higher even though he missed the whole season! He's definitely got the talent to make it out of the gate. I'd have a problem if he looked out of place and they rushed him, but that's nonsense because it would never happen!

I was arguing his line that it was "funny people think he could make it". It's not funny at all and I, along with others, obviously believe he could make it, but it's up to him. My personal opinion is that he is already a top-6 forward for Montreal but that is obviously not a fact, just my opinion based on everything I've seen. That includes his WJHC camp, Biosteel tourny, and regular season with the Sting. I've watched it all and there's no way someone can laugh at him being NHL ready. He's just too good.

Also from the article: "In fact, Hockey USA officials are worried he won't be available for the world juniors because they expect him to be in the NHL." Should we laugh at Hockey USA as well? Actually, maybe I don't want that to be answered LOL!

Yes, I'm sure you are right, that it was never laughable. But there was a good
chance that it was unwise. And from the point of view of Hockey USA, they have
probably seen NHL teams do unwise things before.
Personally, I didn't want him to start in the NHL, even if he was ready
to contribute at that level. The difference from junior is already so big. If
you add even a little lack of timing and awareness, resulting from a year
off, this must increase the risk of injury. But the Habs may get the best of
both worlds. He may get to play OHL until after Xmas, and then attend Habs
training camp.

LOL, so now I'm a troll? 5 and a half years on this board, and nearly 3,000 posts, and I'm a troll for calling out this "rust" argument for being the shoddy excuse that it is?

On draft day I was hoping for Gally to be there at #3. He's one of the top 5 pieces in the entire organization...

His play thus far hasn't changed that but let's stop with the "he's rusty" business. It just looks bad. I guarentee if you were to ask Gally himself if he was rusty he would laugh in your face and probably be insulted by such an insinuation. But yea, I'm a troll...

Seeing as you haven't noticed that "rusty" isn't used much, except for
his first few games of the season, but you are still attacking posters by claiming
that they are using this excuse, you are a troll.
If you want to stop being a troll, don't attack other posters.

LOL, so now I'm a troll? 5 and a half years on this board, and nearly 3,000 posts, and I'm a troll for calling out this "rust" argument for being the shoddy excuse that it is?

On draft day I was hoping for Gally to be there at #3. He's one of the top 5 pieces in the entire organization...

His play thus far hasn't changed that but let's stop with the "he's rusty" business. It just looks bad. I guarentee if you were to ask Gally himself if he was rusty he would laugh in your face and probably be insulted by such an insinuation. But yea, I'm a troll...

Yes, I'm sure you are right, that it was never laughable. But there was a good chance that it was unwise. And from the point of view of Hockey USA, they have
probably seen NHL teams do unwise things before. Personally, I didn't want him to start in the NHL, even if he was ready to contribute at that level. The difference from junior is already so big. If
you add even a little lack of timing and awareness, resulting from a year off, this must increase the risk of injury. But the Habs may get the best of both worlds. He may get to play OHL until after Xmas, and then attend Habs training camp.

Now this, I can agree with! Lockout may have been a blessing in disguise for him, because honestly, I think he needed this month or so to SHAKE OFF THE RUST! Lol, as of right now, I think he's going to show at camp that he IS ready. JMO!

If YOU ever played elite, you'd know training camps, scrimmages and exhibition games are a good notch above the first few regular season games in term of intensity and physical play. Kids are fighting for a spot on the club. But that's pretty much out of topic.

Yeah maybe in "intensity and physicality" but that's not much to do with shaking off rust. It may help him to feel confident in his knee to get hit a lot, and definitely to get his cardio up, but reading plays and getting your timing back will only happen with real competition, against the best players, in games that count.

What Et Le But is talking about is you had people in media/fans saying it as soon as he was drafted.

Management's view was ''we'll see what he does in camp, for all we know, he may be ready''. Which is just a trademark answer for any team that picks someone in the top 10 that isn't viewed as 100% NHL ready. Bergevin even said in mid-August he wasn't expecting Galchenyuk to make the jump and it would be difficult due to the time off: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Berge...039/story.html

Far different.

Thanks, that's exactly what I meant. It was one thing to give him a chance but it was extremely unlikely Galchenyuk could handle the NHL level when he missed a year of development - especially as a center.

Thanks, that's exactly what I meant. It was one thing to give him a chance but it was extremely unlikely Galchenyuk could handle the NHL level when he missed a year of development - especially as a center.

Thanks, that's exactly what I meant. It was one thing to give him a chance but it was extremely unlikely Galchenyuk could handle the NHL level when he missed a year of development - especially as a center.

Still it changes a little if the NHL comes back after Xmas. He would then
have had a chance to play about 25-30 OHL games, and WJC.
But, even then, I'm concerned about the risk of injury, or just screwing
up his development. So I am hoping they don't go that route.

Its well known that usually when a player comes back after a very bad injury, the guy can play very well the first few games under adrenaline but as soon as the adrenaline is gone, there is a period of adjustment that can last very long, you have to feel your body and get your sensations back, the injury is physically gone but want it or not, you have it in the head about all the time, only time can heal your soul and come back at the level you were.. Give Galchenyuk as much time he needs to feel fully comfortable again and become the best player he can be.