March 27, 2010

"The Darwinian revolution was not merely the replacement of one scientific theory by another, as had been the scientific revolutions in the physical sciences, but rather the replacement of a world view, in which the supernatural was accepted as a normal and relevant explanatory principle, by a new world view in which there was no room for supernatural forces."

--Ernst Mayr (1904 – 2005) Professor of Zoology at Harvard University

I just read an article that backed up this quote.

The article was called The Burden of Proof: How Atheism Has Adopted a Worldview That Science Never Intended"I assume that most atheists, who are generally intelligent people, are smart enough to realize that standing from the sidelines and claiming that there is no value in something that they do not practice themselves is not a defensible position. Atheists obviously don't know the value of spiritual practice, because they don't experience its value. Its a bit like someone who has sat idle in front of a computer for most of their lives telling a soccer player that there's no value in soccer. Coming from a non-soccer player, the statement means absolutely nothing..."

"...When and where, in the history of science, do our greatest scientists tell us that one should live their lives believing only in that which can be proven? Who of them has said that it is more 'intelligent' to accept nothing in life but modern western scientific proof?"

Flat earth? You must know that "white people superior" was from an evolutionary mindset. The whole superior race thing cannot be derived from "we all came from Noah's family." All people are descended from one Family (Adam and Eve), one race, the Human race. Sorry that was an evolutionary/atheistic fail.

>>Naughty science found humans older that 6000yrs ago.

People were not around when rocks were formed, so we can only guess about their content or how quickly radioactive elements decayed. The rocks, and fossils, we see today have all formed within the last six thousand years.

Those "naughty" secular scientists have not shown the evidence for the contrary.

>>Naughty science discoverd humans evolved form other life forms.

or discovered a dictionary. No they have never "discovered" any such thing. They wishfully injected that point without the evidence to show it.

Incidentally Science has to be repeatable, verifiable and testable, if you don’t have those three things then it’s not science. Tell me how Macro evolution is testable, repeatable, and verifiable? Please just show me the data. I don't want something on the microscopic level either. Bacteria mutations is not the same.

Please show me the testable, repeatable, and verifiable data that links us to apes. Not presuppositions and data interpretation but real evidence, and keep in mind that a bucket of fossil bones are not testable evidence.

>> Some religions just killed anyone who disagreed.

The doctrines of natural selection have often been the justification for the mass murders of Stalin, Mao, Pot, Ill, Castro, and 45 million unborn and counting, and other atheist regimes.

>>Christians just label whatever is found contratory (contrary?) to the faith a "evil" or secular.

Wrong. Christians label evil or secular things for what they are, evil or secular. Truth is truth.

Racism was rampant before evolution theory came to fruition.>>All people are descended from one Family (Adam and Eve), one race, the Human race (whiteies).<<

Yes it wasn't until Darwin drilled into creationist heads that other races were in fact humans.

MISINTERPRETATION of The doctrines of natural selection has often been the justification for the mass murders of Stalin, Mao, Pot, Ill, Castro, and 45 million unborn and counting, and other atheist regimes.

That is why evolution needs to be taught correctly.

So you do acknowledge that creationists including Christians have killed people because and not only because they didn't believe what they believe!

"Let us all have our own questions and opinions" Because we can.

For all those poor people killed for blasphemy and Heresy, not refusing to bypass their intellect.

You are absolutely wrong and I hope you know it, otherwise get an education.

>>one race, the Human race (whiteies).

>>Yes it wasn't until Darwin drilled into creationist heads that other races were in fact humans.

This is a total farce. Darwin was a a little racist you will have to admit.

"The American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans are as different from each other in mind as any three races that can be named; yet I was incessantly struck, whilst living with the Feugians on board the "Beagle," with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours;" (The Descent of Man, pg. 155)

Shewing how similar their minds were to ours? Ours as in whites. Are you kidding me?

"Their mental characteristics are likewise very distinct; chiefly as it would appear in their emotional, but partly in their intellectual faculties."

He was stating that the strongest in a species live, and the weakest die,

"Finally, it may not be a logical deduction, but to my imagination it is far more satisfactory to look at such instincts as the young cuckoo ejecting its foster-brothers, ants making slaves, the larvae of ichneumonidae feeding within the live bodies of caterpillars, not as specially endowed or created instincts, but as small consequences of one general law leading to the advancement of all organic beings--namely, multiply, vary, let the strongest live and the weakest die."

"That's what leads Hitler to try and breed humans and apes to try to create an oversized warrior or to send expeditions to Tibet to find a pure, Aryan race. I mean, that's not science. It's the cult of science, and I think the New Atheists also make that leap from science into the cult of science, and that's a problem."

You are completely delusional to think that Darwin, and his concepts, have destroyed quite a bit. They took out appendixes, tonsils, glands, etc., on the assumptions that those vital organs were vestigial at a time because of the evolutionary presuppositions, and simply have destroyed many lives.

>>That is why evolution needs to be taught correctly.

Ah now you are getting somewhere, as an American Humanist named John Dunphy said back in 1983:

"I am convinced that the battle for humankind's future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith: a religion of humanity that recognizes and respects the spark of what theologians call divinity in every human being. These teachers must embody the same selfless dedication as the most rabid fundamentalist preachers, for they will be ministers of another sort, utilizing a classroom instead of a pulpit to convey humanist values in whatever subject they teach, regardless of the educational level--preschool day care or large state university. The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new--the rotting corpse of Christianity, together with all its adjacent evils and misery, and the new faith of humanism."

>>So you do acknowledge that creationists including Christians have killed people because and not only because they didn't believe what they believe!

Absolutely not! False religions have killed people and raped young children all in the name of god, so what? Why do you blame that on Christians? Just because someone blows up an abortion clinic in the name of some god, does not mean he is a Christian.

Like I said the Bible says to evaluate everything to see if it is of God by its fruit, good tree = good fruit; a bad tree can never bear good fruit. We don’t even have to address the Catholic Church and the mass pedophiles, and the crusades to determine the fruit, it is obvious.

Darwin was a product of his time. In this time (creationist yeah day) racism was rampant. He was providing evidence that all races were human.

This is were the misunderstanding comes from, the term "fittest"

Why do you blame that on Christians?

Creationism has may sub-groups Your sub- group Christians

Did the following at least!

Ancient Pagans

*As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan templeswere destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.

*Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.

*Examples of destroyed Temples the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea,the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, theHeliopolis.

*Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopoliswere famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468] *Pagan services becamepunishable by death in 356. [DA468]

*Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed,because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]

According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously allChristian teachings..."

*In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.

*In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed ondemand of Christian authorities. [DA466]

*The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn topieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by aChristian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.

Crusades (1095-1291)

Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in tents save that they ran their lances through theirbellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres.

Heretics! people killed!

Witches! people killed

Jews! people killedIn the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned byChristians. Number of Jews slain unknown.

Native Peoples

*Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be HolyCrusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood asa means to propagate Christianity.

*Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encounteredin the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native peoplewho, he said, "ought to be good servants ... [and] would easily bemade Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to noreligion

Like I said the Bible says to evaluate everything to see if it is of God by its fruit, good tree = good fruit

There is no good fruit coming from creationism nor any of it sub-groups.

Antzilla, I think it's unfair for you to point out what evil individuals did "in the name of Christianity" without considering whether bible condones such acts or not. If you can show passages from the bible that justify those acts, fine. But if you can't, then your argument is pointless.

It is as unfair to blame Darwin and the theory of evolution for racism and Hitler, isn't it?

Racism was rampant way before evolutionary theory, or did slavery of other peoples start after evolutionary theory? Come on be honest guys.

Breeding practice was done way before Darwin, way before evolution. Breeding is what inspired Hitler's purification of races, not evolution.

If you read Darwin complete, rather than those quotes, you will find that yes, he was racist, as every person of his time, at least in thinking in racist terms, but not as thinking that races were inferior or superior. He was making a point to those who would read (whites, of course), that other races were not what they thought.

Anyway, there is a "you shall not suffer a witch to live" in the Bible. In case you do not remember, there are tons of passages about laws on slavery and others. The Bible condones slavery, condones killing (of witches at least), and condones genocide (Why did the sun stop for a while? So Joshua could do what? What was that about killing every single person right there but keep the virgins for yourselves?). No way around.

Hey GE! I didn't see anything debunking atheism at that site either. It was just a rehash of the usual arguments, for instance this formulation of the Argument from Design:

Further, the laws that surround causation speak against the universe being the ultimate cause of all we know for this simple fact: an effect must resemble its cause. This being true, no atheist can explain how an impersonal, purposeless, meaningless, and amoral universe accidentally created beings (us) who are full of personality and obsessed with purpose, meaning, and morals.

An effect must resemble its cause? What can this mean? So if I push a button, and thus set off a bomb somewhere, or perhaps connect to someone on my cell phone, where's the resemblance? And the explanation for purpose, meaning, and morals is of course evolution, which, for the gazillionth time, is not accidental: natural selection works to create order at the expense of energy from the environment, just as crystals and sand dunes can appear from disorderly mineral solutions and piles of sand. This argument was debunked long ago.

>>It is as unfair to blame Darwin and the theory of evolution for racism and Hitler, isn't it?

Not really. If we are taught or convinced that there are no ramification for our actions in society, and that we would not get in trouble for robbing, raping, and stealing from people. Would there be an increase of crimes? I would postulate, yes.

>>What was that about killing every single person right there but keep the virgins for yourselves?). No way around.

I will admit I cannot explain the reasons for some things in the Bible but the difference is that I have faith in God. I trust Him to do the right thing, even though I might not understand. The great thing is that I will be there to ask the difficult questions one day. I hope the same for you.

I liked what Stewie linked to. Deny all you want.

Atheism:

1) Insert fingers into ears2) close eyes3) Hope you are right and have faith in the self.4) When presented with truth, deny it or ignore it.

It is as unfair to blame Darwin and the theory of evolution for racism and Hitler, isn't it?

Dan replied:

Not really. If we are taught or convinced that there are no ramification for our actions in society, and that we would not get in trouble for robbing, raping, and stealing from people. Would there be an increase of crimes? I would postulate, yes.

Uh, who teaches that there are no ramifications for our actions in society? Not Darwin. To go from evolutionary theory,or any other observation about the way things are in the world, to the idea that anything that happens is right, is a fallacy, understood long before Darwin, called the "is-ought" fallacy. We've been through this before, Dan.

G.E:

What was that about killing every single person right there but keep the virgins for yourselves?). No way around.

Dan:

I will admit I cannot explain the reasons for some things in the Bible but the difference is that I have faith in God. I trust Him to do the right thing, even though I might not understand. The great thing is that I will be there to ask the difficult questions one day. I hope the same for you.

In other words, it doesn't matter what someone does, as long as God told him to do it, and not Darwin or his own conscience or lack of it. What would you say if someone came to your door and told you that God had told him to kill you, just as He told Saul to kill the Amalekites? How could you know he was wrong?

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

Kill Old Men and Young Women

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

More of Samson's Murders

(The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)

Peter Kills Two People

There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God." As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?" "Yes," she replied, "that was the price." And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too." Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)

Mass Murder

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

You Have to Kill

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB)

God Kills Some More

Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them. Away with them! Get them out of my sight! And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.' "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them," says the LORD. "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth." (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)

God Promises More Killing

I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)

The Angel of Death

My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB)

So as you can plainly see all that writing (Copying and pasting) was for no reason at all. These were all Old Covenant Messianic Kingdom of David issues that has been replaced by Christ’s New Covenant Church Kingdom. So your point is moot.

And the only one that was in the NT was 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 where people killed in the name of God. So what? I think we all know the results of people who are "enacting God's will".

So calm down sparky and try, next time, to link to some of your points instead. If you do not know how, then look right above the comment area here and I left a nifty little thing to show you how "To link:"

It is possible I am misunderstanding your point. So, everything in the OT is still valid and law (at least according to whatever christians buy into that interpretation) as well as any NT stuff? If this is not the case then your god had one collection of rights and wrongs that are no longer valid. In short, it's all or nothing, NT and OT, right?

Nope there were ceremonial, civil, and Moral Laws and guidelines (dietary) at the time of the OT. Some passed because a new Covenant replaced the old. The Moral Law has never change because morals never change, like you said. They are not relative. The only "Commandment" that was replaced was the 4th because we are now in Christ's rest. Jesus is our Sabbath rest. (Hebrews 4:9-10, Matthew 11:28-30)

>>In short, it's all or nothing, NT and OT, right?

Not at all, it's kind of like crawling before walking, things needed to happen first before the NT replaced the old (OT). Old was in preparation for Christ. Much like you prepare to bake the cake, all the ingredients were necessary for the cake, but now the cake is here there is no need for flour, eggs, and milk, etc. Hebrews 4:9-10 says it best though. We stopped covering our sins with a spotless sacrificial lamb to forgiving our sins with the one, spotless, Lamb of God. Get it?

So, I'm guessing these are moral issues: killing homosexualskilling adultererskeeping slaves (or maybe that one is civil?)They stay put because they are moral issues and those never change. OK. Making progress.

What happens if you don't shun a menstruating woman? What type of law is that one?

Not eating shellfish has got to be dietary, but what happens if you eat shellfish? I guess we'll never find out.

Shaving the right way - what is going on with this one? Moral, civil? I guess moral. Gotta still do it the biblical way.

Collecting sticks on a Sunday. Moral, right? What happens? So we still can't do that.

Dealing with a leprosy-infected house or article of clothing. This is...dang, civil?, I guess, so we can skip the seven day ritual under the watchful eye of a priest and all that?

Obviously you did not read my posts and you cannot come here and check your brain at the door. The rule is "Bring your "A" game. If you have one."

From the Post "The second type is civil law. These laws covered the specific laws for the nation of Israel. They are about taxes, charging interest, punishing sin. The civil law has been fulfilled by Christ in that God’s Kingdom has been extended to all nations, transcending national identity. We are no longer bound by the laws of Israel."

Covenants, relative morality, this is expired, this is not...couldn't your god have just made it clearer? I mean, he is god. Why did he write such a dead boring book? Aww, nevermind it. I'll go have some shrimp cocktail and fuck my boyfriend in the ass. Cheers.

It is only dead and boring to the lost. It is a living Bible to us. You must approach God with a broken and contrite heart. (Psalm 34:18) That was my mistake for many years also, I was a false convert for doing so.

And before you retire to bed with your boyfriend please ask the question, is it OK to be Gay?

Sorry for the excessive yet not exhausted evidence of creationists using the bible as justification of murder, rape etc. It must hit a raw nerve. Try not to have me burned as a witch.

My point to Stewie is, theists of many groups killed and raped in the name of there God. Weather you believe in their God or their reasoning or not IT HAPPENEND! The OT did/does exist and did cause people to be killed based on the premise that the killings, rape accounted in the OT was the word of their God.

And that is only the Bible and its consequences. Still left is all the atrocities caused by other theist religions with their own doctrines Islam/ Quran etc.

If only the God worshippers of the past didn't kill everyone maybe peaceful religions would have been more universal. Sad

>>Weather you believe in their God or their reasoning or not IT HAPPENEND!

So whether you believe in the accounts of the Bible is now confirmed?

You believe the entirety of the Bible and the claims? Or, is it just convenient for you to believe the bad things, but not the good?

>>If only the God worshippers of the past didn't kill everyone maybe peaceful religions would have been more universal. Sad

Keep in mind, the last thing you would want to do, to persuade people to follow the Bible, is to discuss rapes and such awful subjects. They left the truth in no matter who believed it or not. Whether we understand it yet or not. Truth is still truth.

Inspiration

"I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born." ~Ronald Reagan----"A great many of those who debunk traditional values have in the background values of their own which they believe to be immune from the debunking process." ~C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man (1944)----"If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our bodies. If they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees. Let no one go there unwarned and unprayed for." ~C.H. Spurgeon----”Prayer is not overcoming God's reluctance, but laying hold of His willingness.” ~Martin Luther----”Occam's razor states that one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything, however, the simple theory must be able to account for or explain what needs explaining. It's not enough to have a simpler theory if you can't account for anything. Though we shouldn't add entities beyond what's needed, we also should not subtract entities beyond what's needed.” ~Paul Manata----Until the Holy Spirit regenerates the sinner and brings him to repentance, his presuppositions will remain unaltered. And as long as the unbeliever's presuppositions are unchanged a proper acceptance and understanding of the good news of Christ's historical resurrection will be impossible. ~Dr. Bahnsen----“One of the most pernicious falsehoods ever to be almost universally accepted is that the scientific method is the only reliable way to truth” ~Professor Richard H. Bube, Stanford University----Rules of atheism"Science":

Theists will consider natural causes.Atheists will ONLY consider natural causes.

Theism posits an eternal mind followed by contingent matter.

Atheism posits matter followed by contingent minds.----"Evolution is the tinfoil hat used by atheists to keep God out of their brainwaves" ~Bevets

"It is not the duty of science to defend the theory of evolution, and stick by it to the bitter end" ~I. L. Cohen----from City of Angels

Seth: You're an excellent doctor.Maggie: How do you know?Seth: I have a feeling.Maggie: That's pretty flimsy evidence.Seth: Close your eyes. It's just for a moment.[touches her hand]Seth: What am I doing?Maggie: You're... touching me.Seth: Touch. How do you know?Maggie: Because, I feel it.Seth: You should trust that. You don't trust it enough.

"Ask the poor. They will tell you who the Christians are." ~Mahatma Gandhi

"Some want to live within the sound of church or chapel bells, I want to run a rescue shop within the yard of hell." ~C.T. Studd

"You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body." ~C.S. Lewis

"Waiting is not wasting when you are waiting on the Lord. God works while we wait." ~unknown

"Since the bible defines a Christian as one who knows God, would you consider yourself to have been a Christian according to the biblical definition?" ~Thomas Bridges

Fun Quotes

Quasar: That's like saying: "look, none of the grasshoppers evolved fire-resistant skin when I put the flamethrower to them! Evolution must be false!"