I actually use to listen to a lot of underground stuff when I was much younger (you can't avoid it in NYC), but I really don't anymore. Pure commercial content only (although you get the odd underground artist if you're buying a mixtape off the streets of Brooklyn).

"The creed is very simple, and here is what it is: to believe that there is nothing more beautiful, more courageous, and more perfect than Christ; and there not only isn't, but I tell myself with a jealous love, there cannot be." ~ Fyodor Dostoevsky

Whatever. We are discussing the artistic merit of such albums. Note that I said it was unfortunate the amount of profanity used, etc. I actually don't really listen to rap music all that much anymore anyway, because I recognize that it can be spiritually dangerous. Your last line--my "response"--is actually quite ridiculous and shows you don't really care what my response would be so I give up and won't be saying anything else.

Anastasios

Anastasios I was actually joking with that last line which is from the song "Dre Day" on the Chronic album which is why I thought you would get the joke. Thank goodness you do not listen to Chronic album but I still cannot understand what artistic merit that album had.Sorry if I offended you but I tend to take this seriously because most of the people, usually middle-class or better, who debate the artistic merits of rap music have never lived in poverty and have no idea what it is like. This particularly unnerves because a lot of kids listen to rap and become little monsters. Try walking through any ghetto. There are kids eight and nine years old that already call women 'b**ches and h**s," carry knives in their pockets, and are very violent. Rap music does not help this situation and usually makes it worse. How can the 'hip-hop lifestyle' be reconciled with Orthodoxy? I really just cannot understand that. The people I knew who were into that sold drugs, drove around drunk and high all afternoon, and were in and out of jail for dumb stuff a lot. How can it be good to promote such a lifestyle.Anastasios I am interested in your opinion and sorry for the joke.

This is exactly what Bible-belt fundamentalists said about jazz, blues and then rock music. This does not stem from the music itself but the racial stereotypes associated with the music.

Matthew no offense but you do not know where I am from or what I was doing in high school. I am not a racist or a bigot. I grew up with people of different races and my best friend is Mexican. I listened to gangsta rap from the time I was eight years old. When the "Chronic" and "Doggystyle" came out I was all over it. Things just got worse after that. By the time I was in high school I was doing dumb stuff everyday. Everytime I was out riding it was gangsta rap that was heard down the block. If anyone knows what Rap music makes you feell like doing and what it does to your mind I do.Furthermore I am not a Fundamentalist. I am not looking through Mr.Ed lyrics to find Satanism. When youngmen can think of nothing more then 'gettin' busy' something is wrong.

There is no way the Beastie Boy could ever be "gangsta" Mike D. AKA Michael Diamond is the son of Neil Diamond.

Also, since when is Rancid punk? If the band was born post 1985 it's post punk. The actual scene died long before you were born.

Actually the Beastie Boys album "Check Your Head" was gangsta in a lot of ways. I remember that when my friend and I first heard the album we could not stop laughing at that skit with the guy named Chico. What fools we were.

The most respected group seems to be Niggers With Attitudes (NWA). Either that or Dre, who probably had the largest hand in turning countless thousands of suburban Christian kids into sexed-up, drug-taking, gangster thug-wanna-bes. Anyone who thinks I'm exaggerating probably didn't go to school in a mostly white, suburban or rural, high school in the 1990's.

This thread is enough to make you question why people even participate at discussion fora.

PS. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to sit around talking about NWA when the forum censors the first word in that name (in the singular at least). I get the feeling that Robert is changing that to include the plural as we speak though, so if "I'm a racist" appears in the above post, that will be the reason. Guess it's part of the uniform look the OC.net wants to be famed for You better not mispell a word in a thread title... but hey, we'll insert words about you being a racist all we want if you say w i g g e r or something

The most respected group seems to be Niggers With Attitudes (NWA). Either that or Dre, who probably had the largest hand in turning countless thousands of suburban Christian kids into sexed-up, drug-taking, gangster thug-wanna-bes. Anyone who thinks I'm exaggerating probably didn't go to school in a mostly white, suburban or rural, high school in the 1990's.

This thread is enough to make you question why people even participate at discussion fora.

PS. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to sit around talking about NWA when the forum censors the first word in that name (in the singular at least). I get the feeling that Robert is changing that to include the plural as we speak though, so if "I'm a racist" appears in the above post, that will be the reason. Guess it's part of the uniform look the OC.net wants to be famed for You better not mispell a word in a thread title... but hey, we'll insert words about you being a racist all we want if you say w i g g e r or something

HA! It didn't change.

Altho, I'm not for censoring speech, I think another admin added those word filters.

Guess it's part of the uniform look the OC.net wants to be famed for You better not mispell a word in a thread title... but hey, we'll insert words about you being a racist all we want if you say w i g g e r or something

I grew up terribly poor, most friends were visible minorities (as a matter of happenstance because of socio-economic reasons), got into a lot of trouble as a kid (the kind that young people often get into) and listened almost exclusively to rap. Never did drugs, never b*tch slapped a h* because I knew the difference between life and entertainment (dare I say "art"). At the end of the day, I had a strong family to give me the realities of right and wrong. Dre's Chronic wasn't going to turn me into a gang banger, heck, it wasn't even enough to make me wear silly baggy pants.

The fact that anyone needs to chastise anyone else for the music they listen to... don't we have better things to do with our time???

PS - I guess about the worst thing I did was become a trial lawyer... but you can hardly blame that on Dre and Tupac.

WHAT !!!!!!! NO LOVE FOR ICE -T!!!!! THE ORIGINAL GANGTER?? Just kiddin.Though ther are a FEW positive , consious artist in the biz today, I too left behind the rap thing (see St. Moses prior to his convertion) . It stimulates the passions ( for me at least) of lust and hate too much .I also find it to largely offencive to Mother of God and my daughter. I lack the ability to separate the music from life. Now when I wake up I hear, Glory to God, " AS MANY HAVE BEEN BAPTISTED INTO CHRIST.." instead of " Kill those niggas..blah, blah ,blah.........fuck them bitches..blah, blah, blah,... it may seem harmless, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

+++ MOSES

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"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names." - John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)

How can the 'hip-hop lifestyle' be reconciled with Orthodoxy? I really just cannot understand that. The people I knew who were into that sold drugs, drove around drunk and high all afternoon, and were in and out of jail for dumb stuff a lot. How can it be good to promote such a lifestyle.Anastasios I am interested in your opinion and sorry for the joke.

There is a huge difference between the "gangster lifestyle" and good hip-hop. Most of the hip-hop music that I listen to does not involve gangster themes. Listen to some Grits for some Christian hip-hop.

Thanks for backing me up Paradosis and I do remember seeing a lot of rich white kids acting gangsta back when Snoop Dogg was in. Of course we all thought they looked like idiots whenever we would see them driving by in expensive cars with their stereos blaring. It makes me wonder what on earth was going on in their minds and how they could possibly relate to any of the lyrics. I don't think too many rich kids have to worry about getting beatin up for walking around at night.

WHAT !!!!!!! NO LOVE FOR ICE -T!!!!! THE ORIGINAL GANGTER?? Just kiddin.Though ther are a FEW positive , consious artist in the biz today, I too left behind the rap thing (see St. Moses prior to his convertion) . It stimulates the passions ( for me at least) of lust and hate too much .I also find it to largely offencive to Mother of God and my daughter. I lack the ability to separate the music from life. Now when I wake up I hear, Glory to God, " AS MANY HAVE BEEN BAPTISTED INTO CHRIST.." instead of " Kill those niggas..blah, blah ,blah.........fool them bitches..blah, blah, blah,... it may seem harmless, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

+++ MOSES

Thank You for that comment Moses. It is good to know someone else gets it.

There is a huge difference between the "gangster lifestyle" and good hip-hop. Most of the hip-hop music that I listen to does not involve gangster themes. Listen to some Grits for some Christian hip-hop.

I hear this a lot and I do agree that you are right about this but still you hear enough innocuous hip-hop you may end up liking gangsta rap because of the similarity of beats. Even though I know it is really harmless in many ways and probably wouldn't inspire anyone to do bad things it is still exciting the passions and should not be listened to constantly. Whenever someone gets the point of listening to five hours a day of any kind of popular music something is a little screwy.

Once again I am not a fundamentalist but I think that it is better not to listen to rap music, or any contemporary popular music for that matter, because it excites the passions particularly when listened to often.

The only reason I commented at all was when I started seeing albums like the "Chronic" being discussed like that is the kind of music a Christian listens to.

Thanks for backing me up Paradosis and I do remember seeing a lot of rich white kids acting gangsta back when Snoop Dogg was in. Of course we all thought they looked like idiots whenever we would see them driving by in expensive cars with their stereos blaring. It makes me wonder what on earth was going on in their minds and how they could possibly relate to any of the lyrics. I don't think too many rich kids have to worry about getting beatin up for walking around at night.

As for how contemporary music excites the passions, so will riding in an roller coaster, holding a girl's hand, or almost anything worth enjoying. Listening to Mozart excites the passions. Being an Orthodox Christian does not mean having to live in a cave.

As for the Hip-Hop... sorry to disappoint... but I love it. Top 5 of all time..

1. Dr. Dre (not because he's the greatest rapper, but when you take his beats + The Chronic + NWA + World Class Wrecking crew) he is just the man.

2. Tupac

3. Biggie

4. Nas

5. Tie - Jay Z, Rakim Eminem

I agree with 1, 2, and 4 (not in any order), but can't really say about the others. I'm not partial to Biggie, and Jay-Z is sometimes good, sometimes not so good. I don't have a top five list, but I'd add NWA and Snoop.

Did anybody mention Slick Rick? Matthew: Lighten up dude. I am not suggesting that we live in caves . We are not monks on Athos. And truth be known, I still own that first N.W.A. album ( yes , album ..it was that long ago ) and I bought that first fifty cent CD. I have never heard of Christian rap but as I have already stated , I know that not all rap is gangster related. But the majority of it today IS gangster themed . It`s your thing, do what you gotta do . And the things that I now say come from first hand experience ( convert with a "questionable" past...me ) just be careful,brother, because the words and the music WILL influence your thoughts , your heart , and your soul.

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"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names." - John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)

As for how contemporary music excites the passions, so will riding in an roller coaster, holding a girl's hand, or almost anything worth enjoying. Listening to Mozart excites the passions. Being an Orthodox Christian does not mean having to live in a cave.

Good Joke! I have considered seeing that movie. Maybe I will this summer if I am not busy. There was another semi-serious movie called "White Boys" that my brother saw. He said it was funny but also very accurate about wiggers . . . or is it wiggaz?

But seriously I have had girlfriends, gone on roller coasters, and I probably listen to Wagner and Debussy a little too much. Being an Orthodox Christian should at least mean moderation. All I am saying is that there is better music out there. I can talk about the 'shivery heights' of "Tristan und Isolde" but I certainly cannot say that about Ski lo or Cypress Hill. I am not saying you should live in a cave but that as Orthodox Christians we should be careful of wasting our time in worldly pursuits whether it is rap music or classical. I remember that St.John of Kronstadt used to criticize the nobility for spending too much time at plays and operas. I admit that I am definitely far from the ideal and probably enjoy eating dinner and drinking beer with my friends too much but still I am just reiterating what I have been told and read. I have no reason to question the wisdom of the Fathers.

I listen to the Beastie Boys, who are essentially a comedy-rap group, I listen to Christian hip-hop groups who focus on Christ-centered themes, and the Roots who rap about political/racial issues.

I have only heard one rap song with Christ centered themes. Somehow it didn't seem like rap. I think I have heard the Roots a few times but I cannot remember what political persuasion they were. As for the Beastie Boys being comedians, I would say that is true now and in the beginning but not always.

And the things that I now say come from first hand experience ( convert with a "questionable" past...me ) just be careful,brother, because the words and the music WILL influence your thoughts , your heart , and your soul.

Oh, yes. I believe it was Augustine who once stated, "The good Christian should beware the hip-hop artist and all those who bust rhymes and scratch turntables. The danger already exists that the rappers have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell."

I agree with all yall (ATL influence) and hip-hop shouldn't be the central part of anyones life (but I think you can say the same about listening to Barry Manilow to).

Like I said earlier, I think it is entirely personal. I grew up on the stuff, but never let it influence my life. In fact, I always got a kick out of the kids (especially the white ones) that dressed the part. Inevitably, you have a "hip-hop" discussion with one of them and find out there knowledge of hip-hop goes back about 4 years.

Truth is, I liked hip-hop before it became "popular" and "trendy" to like it. I liked it, when everyone was listening to Rock. Back in the early eighties, I even got called "Disco-Boy" for liking hip-hop (it shows you how well versed the "rockers" were in hip hop).

In the end, I can appreciate some of the concerns some have. It just wasn't that way for me.

Mo,

Slick Rick... a legend... can't believe I left him off my list (Children's story is one of my all time fav's).

Mor Ephrem,

To me NWA is better recognzied as "pioneers" of gangsta rap, rather than great music. I think Dre really found his grove after he left (although I suppose I can see that there is an argument that his best work was done with NWA).

About Snoop.... I feel like I only like his "Dre Produced" stuff. Even now with Pharrel, I just don't love his stuff. When he came out on The Chronic, I thought he might be the best ever, but the whole Master P, No Limit debacle really brought him down, IMHO.

Oh, yes. I believe it was Augustine who once stated, "The good Christian should beware the hip-hop artist and all those who bust rhymes and scratch turntables. The danger already exists that the rappers have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell."

Good joke. But seriously, I know that St.Augustine did comment on music at one point but I cannot remember what work. I already mentioned St.Nikodemos the Hagiorite. His work that I am thinking of in particular is Spiritual Counsels. Read the chapter on the sense of hearing.

I agree with all yall (ATL influence) and hip-hop shouldn't be the central part of anyones life (but I think you can say the same about listening to Barry Manilow to).

Like I said earlier, I think it is entirely personal. I grew up on the stuff, but never let it influence my life. In fact, I always got a kick out of the kids (especially the white ones) that dressed the part. Inevitably, you have a "hip-hop" discussion with one of them and find out there knowledge of hip-hop goes back about 4 years.

Truth is, I liked hip-hop before it became "popular" and "trendy" to like it. I liked it, when everyone was listening to Rock. Back in the early eighties, I even got called "Disco-Boy" for liking hip-hop (it shows you how well versed the "rockers" were in hip hop).

In the end, I can appreciate some of the concerns some have. It just wasn't that way for me.

I am glad to hear it was not that way for you. I think a big part of it might have been because you started listening to rap before it turned gangsta. Though I am not sure when exactly the gangsta thing can be said to have started. 1988? NWA was hardcore but one of its lyrics in "Express yourself," I think that was the title of the song, goes, " . . . never smoke weed or ses 'cause it only give a brother brain damage . . . " which was actually sung by Dr.Dre who later named his first album The Chronic! That never fails to surprise people who think they know rap history. I suppose the release of the "Chronic" and "Doggystyle" marks where I place the beginning of the gangsta thing or at least the point when it became 'mainstream.' But the really gangsta stuff, seriously talks about selling drugs and killing people for fun, never really became mainstream. I am talking about guys like Brother Lynch and Dayton Avenue. For instance the chorus of one of Dayton Avenue's songs is, "Runnin in runnin out taking cocaine out ya house." I cannot see that being played on MTV.

I agree with what you say... I think a big part of it is also that I wasn't raised a "knucklehead"... meaning I knew the difference between right and wrong.

I also think guys like Dre, Diddy, Russel Simmons etc.. are business men more than anything else. In ways they exploit the weakness of society to benefit their personal bank accounts.

Think about it with Dre and Eminem. Dre plucks this white kid out of Detroit (or surrounding areas), knows he's going to be ultra offensive, he's got rapping skills and he knows suburban white America is going to buy his records (big time).

Eminem was to Dr. Dre, what the Happy Meal use to be to McDonald's. Too much of either is not very good for you, but they certainly put a lot of money is their bosses bank accounts.

I also had an opportunity to represent Rush Communications (parent of Def Jam) in a legal matter. I had an opportunity to meet and speak with Russel Simmons and his CFO. What was most amazing about Russel is that he may be a corporate gangster, but he is not a street gangster. My impression is that these guys are ALL about making the green, if that means exploitation, they'll do it... but that is another story.

*coffee*Blood curdling truthWorking the word in as proofBesides mine the guidlines of righteous paths takenTremendous speaking, fresh out the kitchenAnd never switching from the homegrownHole it down like the ozoneThis is for the playa playaMake ya holla hollaThe kid with no moralsSell his mama for a dollarThey all fall downThey all fall downThey all fall downThey all fallI've compiled this alongside with boneSo you can file this under for the opposing a nihilistDoubt what you know nothing about reactionaryBelief in the scripture's fulfillment are contraryTo popular beliefHellbound in a basketSucking on their teethWound up in a casketAt close, you frozeAlready chose the doors you go troughThe life you chose to leadDetermines the place you go to

*hook*To the naked, untrained eyeWho can't see time fly byRevolving on a carouselLiving life like a modern day fairytale...Slow mo', urgent message gets a no-goWhat fo'Can't nobody tell youEverything is lovey doveyTill your plans fall through...They all fall down -x3-They all fall

*coffee*Lay it down flatThe ins and outs of this businessOral with my moralsThings i say seem pretentiousShow changeI ain't derangedTo be looked upon strangeLike the dames in the verbs joint (shoot, we the factors)You ain't know neahRally all my troops in GI Joe gearArsenals and weapons abundantStop me if I sound redundant

*bonafide*Sound redundantMan please appease meRepeat yourselfMost folks scared of the truthLiving liesFooling themselves and everyone surroundingDeception of perception blindTo what self did deep downDeep down beyond the black holeof the soul in control

*hook*They all fall -x2-

*bonafide*I was surrounded by the darknessOf the hearts of mensPlots for spots to roll roversControlling blocks and lots on topWhere I was charted to beBut failing to see truthBehind the lies of eyesHandling G'sThey squeeze until my soul was unloadedHolding to nothingBut folded billsConcealed like weapons looking to killMy mind filledWith thrills and pleasuresLife could offerWalked amongst the deadLaid to rest in a coffinNocturnal destinyLeading to my eternityHourly concerning meYet I wasn't yearnedTo be all of whatHis calling said to beAnd bred to beActually I thought it was all about meTook for granted what was handed by the unseenInvested all my time and effortBuilding CAppealing to my desiresAnd lustful feelingsThinking I could make it by the grace of GodStraight disgrace the face of God

Well, having read this stuff I'm happy to say I never liked hip-hop. Where I come from the poor kids listened to George Jones and Willie Nelson. I thought punk was bad. Right now I'm listening to The Toasters. No worries about drug references or other weird stuff. There are some references to fighting, I suppose.

Sabbas,

Wagner? Man, it may as well be hip-hop or punk. As Latin as it is, I've been finding myself listening to Palestrina, Desprez and Tallis lately. I have no idea why. If you want something really fantastic, try "Morimur" with the Hilliard Ensemble and Christoph Poppen on baroque violin. http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Performers/Hilliard-Morimur.htm

It's a little controversial, and I know it's Bach, but I find it hard to beat. I don't mind the recording technique as being "new agey" because I think they capture the essence of the sound.

I listen to rap once in awhile but I'm a bit suprised so many hear like it that much. How hard can it be to compose a few beats? I think the lyrics and getting the timing down is probably the hardest, but come on I wouldn't even compare these groups to real artist that play real instruments.

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"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

Grits are okay, but Christianity or Christian related concepts aren’t exactly the central themes of their songs, they just have the odd couple of references every now and then.

If you want to listen to some serious Christian hip-hop I suggest you check out Cross Movement. Here are some of their lyrics:

From "Closer to you":

God, I say you’re the greatest light of my lifeYour cross, the greatest sight of my lifeWhen I believed, the greatest night of my lifeSince then it’s the fight of my life, to get at You

...

GÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Âª‘cause I’m a model of the manwho be following the planBut like the hood be saying,“Yo, holla at your man!”You say, “holla at your God,”and read the love letter I inspired,You’re never satisfied until you’re wit meAnd it gets me:I study with zeal and with energy,on a mission to affect the industrymature in the faith, and I’m active in the ministry,All that, and I can still hear you saying to me

Hook:I wanna be closer to youI wanna be to be your heart’s desireI want to be #1 even though you play Me shy

I wanna be closer to youI wanna be all you needSo won’t you give Me a tryand watch Me change your life

Goodness gracious, Lord. Anybody in the hood ever taste this before?Ever been chased by the Lord? Embraced by the warmth of the Sonthen end up with their face to the floor?I love what you cooked up to make me look upSaid I could pick your brain if I picked your book upAnd ever since the day you and I hooked upLife has been super-fly like Jimmy SnukaBut I know you want more than Sundays more than clich+Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â¬sWhat you want is for me to obeyAnd if I can’t give that then I can’t give jackYou don’t want just my hands without my heart attached

Without a heart to match, my lip service is dead as artifactsthough I call it worshipAnd with no ring on my hands and as a single young manthere’s more to give and I can still hear you saying to me

From "What do you see":

Concentrate, your mind should stay in study mode Tell your buddies, “roll” as you contemplate the bloody robe Which was worn by the One beaten and torn Killed by the same dust people He’d formed But He emptied Himself---paused the wealth Put independent use of His attributes on the shelfLoving men who weren’t loving Him but were loving sinLoving gin, lovin’ a night at the club again ...

...But back to the ugliest things you’ve ever heard ofThe murder of the One who took more flack than RobertaThey came in droves the enemy had His veins exposed they played a game where they claimed His robe...Only Providence helped Him sustain the blowsAre you seeing the One who owns it all?The King getting beaten in the Roman halls Headed for a Roman cross, and heaven is His home and all But He wouldn’t give His home a callSoon to dislocate His bones and allAnd still wouldn’t wish for His opponents fall

GÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂªGÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Â¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Âª

No time to blink, but just continue to think of ScriptureLet it convict ya, focus get in to picture Watch it blow you square off the rector As it teaches you of the real VictorWho prevails, you hear the crucifixion detailsNow ask yourself why’s your life still derailed And why we fail to live for the One we nailed This same Jesus, you know the One we HailWith lips but not with livesTime see with the heart and not with our eyes

Peace.

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No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus

dude....the modern gangsta-rap and post-gangsta-rap industry are tools of the elitist/white/Freemasonic/Disney moguls to perpetuate stereotypes about African-Americans....and unfortunately, America's youth has swallowed it hook-line-and-sinker.....What ever happened to real rap groups who tell it like it is, like Public Enemy or Boogie Down Productions?

Grits are okay, but Christianity or Christian related concepts aren’t exactly the central themes of their songs, they just have the odd couple of references every now and then.

I own Grammatical Revolution and I would have to disagree. Their lyrics are definitely Christ-inspired, though the deaper meaning is sometimes implied rather than directly stated. Sometimes, that actually halps the message to get across better.

Hmmm........Christian themed rap? I have heard the Gospel Gangsta's are pretty good. Might want to check them out. Also, another awesome Christian band is Spoken....I highly recommend their 2nd album which is there self titled album. They sound just like Rage Against The Machine I kid you not. There is not one bad song on that album.

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"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

dude....the modern gangsta-rap and post-gangsta-rap industry are tools of the elitist/white/Freemasonic/Disney moguls to perpetuate stereotypes about African-Americans....and unfortunately, America's youth has swallowed it hook-line-and-sinker.....What ever happened to real rap groups who tell it like it is, like Public Enemy or Boogie Down Productions?

anyway, if you wanna now what the real gangsters, the ones locked up in prisons listen to, then its gotta be Nas and Rootsjust to let you know

Personally I am stil hocked on De la Soul, and hey, what about the French Stuff?! Its beautifull how the language flows while the beats pump, and now problems with bad language, since at least I cant understand it!But in terms of text, if there are any german speakers out there, check 'Tag am Meer' by the unforgettable Fantastischen Vier!

Christian rap, I don't know man. If I wanna hear hymns there is nothing, not in text nor melody that can compete with it, and if I wanna hear hip hop, then thats something completly different! Two worlds appoart.