MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Order. I call this meeting of the Subcommittee of the Whole on Supply
to order. We’re continuing with Communities, Culture and Heritage.

Ms.
Leblanc, you have up to 30 minutes.

MS.
SUSAN LEBLANC: Hello again, everyone. I would like to pick up on the discussion
yesterday, the announcement that you were talking about of the new hires in the
department to work on the issue of addressing systemic racism.

Firstly,
I was wondering if the department has a definition of systemic racism that will
guide the department in the work and if you could offer and share it with us.

HON.
LEO GLAVINE: I thank all colleagues participating today in the continuation of
CCH Estimates.

Systemic
racism is a topic that I believe has been very much on the minds of legislators
across the country. In fact, it has reached the world body of the United
Nations - to take a whole decade to look at those of African descent. The
global issue is one that we’re very, very familiar with here in our province.
Systemic racism is that attitude, that physical marginalizing, the subtleties -
or perhaps more blatantly - that affect employment, that affect opportunity.

Unfortunately,
we still see occasions of graffiti or name calling. All of these still existing
mean that there’s that undercurrent. That is the piece that, when we say
systemic, is there, and it’s ingrained. It has now gone through multiple
generations. We have communities and individuals that still live on the
periphery of the major developments of Nova Scotian society. I believe that
it’s simply based on the fact of their race, their culture, their identity, and
they’re not able to participate fully in society.

That’s
what we see, and sometimes that overt piece that we have seen on occasion
really makes us all realize that something we thought wasn’t there is still
very much a part of Nova Scotian society. It’s more of that quiet or hidden
attitude that still remains that we need to overcome. This is why, when we talk
about systemic racism, it has to be addressed in all aspects of our community
life. One of the areas that still remains, perhaps one of the key ways in which
we address systemic racism, is through our school system.

It’s
not just the African Nova Scotians. Any of our marginalized populations, our Mi’kmaq,
those who identify as part of very small community groups, people of colour,
are sometimes affected in very real ways by that systemic racism.

I
was very, very pleased to see the work that Kings County has now put in place
for the past decade to deal with systemic racism and that whole picture of
injustice around employment and finding ways in which they could advance
different cultures and have occasions when they would have seminars, when they
put together an entire piece of work to make Kings County a much more open,
friendly place for employment, for work. I feel that, with our coordinator
position, we will build on some of that great work and example. What they did
was bring in people like Senator Bernard, elders from the Mi’kmaq community, and
immigrants. In fact, they employed immigrants right in the work of Kings
County. This is why I’m very - maybe “bullish” is not the right word. I feel
this coordinator position, to give direction, put a plan in place, and oversee
the execution of the plan, is going to be very valuable in dealing with
systemic racism.

We
all know that this is now part of the work that is being carried out as part of
the Culture Action Plan. It’s going to take very significant work in those 50
small African Nova Scotian communities to lift those communities into the
mainstream of Nova Scotia life in a much stronger way. I have been encouraging
my colleagues to actually take the Culture Action Plan and read it. There are
some copies in the backroom in the Legislature. I think we have a significant
role, and we must use every opportunity to speak against that disposition, that
attitude, and those practices that we will still encounter. I believe it must
be work right across government, that it cannot be just the Department of
Communities, Culture and Heritage, obviously highlighted by the work of ANSA.

In
fact, the very work around the land claims - in some ways, that is symbolic and
real to those people who were told, you have no more than squatters’ rights
where you have lived for 200 years. To give them title to their land and to
give them sense of belonging is absolutely breaking down those barriers that
have existed in Nova Scotia’s society for far too long. It’s that entrenched
where they live.

When
I began teaching the African Nova Scotia course in high school, I was a pilot
teacher. I remember the day when a student asked, where do all the people of
African descent live in our province? Of course, I knew we were going to be
studying Africville, the Prestons, Beechville, Lincolnville, and Sunnyville. I
had the opportunity, as I mentioned to you yesterday, of doing some tutoring
when I was at St. F.X. I knew some communities, but I said, let’s put together
a map. When you take a look at a map, that’s when you realize the complete
marginalization of the people of African descent in our province. It was no
accident that most of the communities of predominantly African Nova Scotians
were on the outskirts of larger existing Caucasian communities. Very often,
near where the dump for those communities existed is where they got parcels and
pieces of land that they had no ownership of, no title to.

There’s
many different aspects of systemic racism. Essentially, it’s that ingrained
dimension of how we treat our communities. Very often, they are those that make
up a small percentage of our population. In this case, we really have made as a
government - in fact, when I leave this place, and people ask me what I did as
an MLA and what I did as a minister, we have taken it on. I would say part of
that whole systemic racism never addressed the issue of the Nova Scotia Home
for Colored Children, never addressed this whole major issue in our province. I
will leave, and I will be able to say proudly that, as a government, we took on
a restorative model of justice for the Black community in our province. It will
be one of the areas that I hope to tell my grandchildren about, that we began
to change a tide in our province. Much, much work remains to be done, and it’s
incumbent upon all of us.

I
will leave that there for now. I just get very disheartened. I get unbelievably
worked up when there are discriminatory practices. Wherever it may show itself
during my lifetime I have certainly worked to counter it. I was not asked to
teach the African Canadian course in my school. I quickly volunteered to do
that because I think it is incumbent upon every citizen to do that check on
what our real, heartfelt view of the world is in relation to those who are
minorities, and a tradition of treatment in our province that should not be
part of our future.

[12:30
p.m.]

MS.
LEBLANC: In your answer, I heard a lot of things. I heard comments about racism
in community and racism in schools and then more system-related racism.

With
respect, I would like to point out that the definition of systemic racism,
where it is different from general racism or racial bigotry, is that it is
about systemic policies which are economic, which are social, and which are
political, that hold a certain group of people back or disadvantage groups of
people. While I think that the work of Communities, Culture and Heritage should
address systemic racism, and I want to talk about that a lot more in a second,
perhaps when the work begins, there could be very clear definitions of what the
work is. We do need to address systemic racism. Much of the racism that we see
in communities is because of systemic racism, but it is actually racial
bigotry. I think that it would be great to expand the work of the new people
being hired who are going out into the communities, to be looking at racism and
the systems that hold it in place.

We
have been thinking a lot about this, and we have been hearing a lot about this,
for many years. We have been hearing about it in the media lately. I want to ask,
is your department - and will you be asking every department in the province
and in the government also - reviewing its own internal policies to identify
systemic barriers to marginalized communities within the government itself?

I
just want to back that up by saying - I forget exactly what we were talking
about yesterday, but you made a really strong point that, as MLAs, we can be
examples of the policies and the values that we hold. I know - when we were
talking about accessibility, our offices are accessible offices. We should be
making sure, as MLAs and as an entire government, that we start in our own
house and make sure that we are addressing all policies that could support
systemic racism. I am wondering, are you planning to do a full review of your
department and ask the other ministers to do reviews of their departments?

MR.
GLAVINE: Thank you very much for a very valuable contribution and part of the
discussions that must go on.

I
did allude much more to those dimensions that happen in our community life as a
result of it. But, yes, one of the strengths that I think has been developing
and evolving in Communities, Culture and Heritage is, we realize that if we are
going to build healthy, inclusive, vibrant communities, the work is not the work
of one department. Now we have two or three wonderful examples of five or six
departments, and in some cases more, that have worked together.

The
first step for us in Communities, Culture and Heritage is to actually look
within our own department and see what policies and programs we have that could
be limiting access or limiting participation by any group in Nova Scotia
society. We want to look at whatever change, adjustment, greater accommodation,
greater support for the marginalized and minority groups in our province for
sure.

Then,
like we have done in community transportation, with accessibility, we brought
in a number of departments. There are now several working groups of deputy
ministers that come together on a particular file. They’re the ones who can
reach into their departments. They’re the ones who can give the guidance around
reviewing their program.

The
second phase will be to work across government to make sure that systemic
racism is attacked and identified whether it’s overt or subtle that may be
there in policies or even a policy that simply puts limits on people’s
opportunities and possibilities. We will work across government. It’s one area,
in my view, where it cannot be three, four, five, or six departments. It must
be across all government departments. That kind of leadership and ask, what the
United Nations wants to see carried out in our province, and also what will
come forward from the Nova Scotia Home for Colored Children Restorative
Inquiry, I believe, is about the future.

As
a member, you have identified what I think will be at the very top of the list,
and that is identification and ways of dealing with systemic racism.

MS.
LEBLANC: On this work, the business plan for the departments that you will be
working with and partnering representatives of the communities that face
systemic racism, that is obviously really important, and I applaud that. Can
you provide us with a list of the community organizations that you’ll be
working with or at least an initial list to start with and then keep updating
us on who you’ll be consulting with and partnering with?

MR.
GLAVINE: I believe in open dialogue and discussions in the department. There’s
no reason for us not to meet even with MLAs who have a perspective on this work
that will go forward. We will be open, first of all, to getting the position
and creating a prospectus, if you wish, for the work that will need to be
carried out, getting that framework in place. Then we will obviously have to
work with leaders in community organizations that are already on the ground
that are doing some of this work and perhaps find new ways of entering into our
communities of African descent.

Certainly,
to let the public know what work is being planned and how it will be carried
out is an important part of this process. We have used that actually with the
inquiry in the Nova Scotia Home for Colored Children. We have been giving
updates on the work and the progress being made. This is a very special
project, a very needed one, and we need to keep in touch with the public on how
that is going forward. It’s very, very early days. It will take some time, but
to let people know what’s happening is significant.

MS.
LEBLANC: One of the high-profile examples of systemic racism in our province
right now is the unjust practice of street checks, where mostly African Nova
Scotians, but other people of colour as well, are being stopped by police with
no reason in a much higher ratio than others. Will the department and the
Office of African Nova Scotian Affairs be working with the Department of
Justice to address the racist impact of street checks?

MR.
GLAVINE: That’s certainly a very specific question. As we move this work
forward, I’m anticipating that there will be that kind of issue that will need
to be addressed head on and certainly worked on with the Department of Justice
or any of our departments. This is an area that has certainly been identified.
When the analysis was done in this regard, to have 3 per cent or 4 per cent of
our population with this many occurrences of police checks, it certainly asked
us to take a look at it. What are the policies? What kind of instruction? Is it
at the individual level? It is within the police department?

Working
with Justice and collaborating with them will be a very basic part of the work
we do. We haven’t identified all the areas that will be investigated, but many
of those areas are ones that we will take on. ANSA in particular has a body of
knowledge, a body of information. We have begun some community meetings around
the Land Titles Clarification Act and land title settlements.

Taking
on other issues that we need to will, I’m sure, be outlined by a coordinator
and by the department and build on what ANSA sees as part of that work. I’m
pleased that this person will work very closely with the deputy minister. There
are great expectations from this position, this coordination across the
province, and the work that will be done. I’m certainly looking for very
practical, real, on-the-ground impacts of this position.

MS.
LEBLANC: Before I begin, it seems we have been joined by an awesome group of
school people here, maybe from Eastern Passage. Is that where they’re from,
perhaps? Hi, everyone.

We’re
talking about systemic racism. Another instance of systemic racism is African
Nova Scotian and Mi’kmaq overrepresentation in the prison system because they
are disproportionately policed and receive jail time for things that other
people don’t. Is there anything your department will be doing to work with the
Department of Justice to address this, for example - I’ll just give you one
small example - working on promoting the pardons of people who have records for
cannabis-related charges that will be legal this year?

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Two minutes.

MR.
GLAVINE: Maybe this is a question that we’ll have to come back to.

I
want to welcome the students behind us here, and I just want to point out to
them that this is an opportunity for MLAs, especially in the Opposition, to ask
government questions. I’m the Minister of Communities, Culture and Heritage and
Minister of Seniors. I have a budget of about $88 million in Communities,
Culture and Heritage, so it’s very important that the Opposition ask how that
money was spent last year, how it will be spent in this coming year, and why
there are increases or decreases in the amounts of a particular budget. That’s
a little bit of what’s happening here.

[12:45
p.m.]

If
you are in Grade 7 or Grade 8, I must say that teaching Grades 7 and 8 was some
of the best 13 years of my teaching time, so I know all about this age group.

In
terms of dealing with the overrepresentation in our prison system, that’s an
area that I would like to speak to. I know time for the NDP has pretty well
expired, and I would like to come back and address that question in the next
opportunity that you will have.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Order. Time has elapsed for the NDP caucus.

We
will turn it over to the PC caucus for one hour. Mr. Harrison.

MR.
LARRY HARRISON: I want to turn over now to Seniors. There’s a country song . .
.

MR.
GLAVINE: Madam Chairman, the member wants to move now on to Seniors.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Oh, Seniors, so we will have a recess?

MR.
GLAVINE: We haven’t finished the questions on CCH. Could you make a
determination as to the direction we would need to go in?

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: I would have to discuss it with the House Leader. We’ll have to
recess for a couple of minutes.

MR.
GLAVINE: We’ll recess for a couple of minutes? If you could just note the time
then.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Yes. (Interruption) Ms. LeBlanc.

MS.
LEBLANC: I had expressed to my House Leader that I thought this past half-hour
would be enough, but I could certainly talk longer. I don’t know if that throws
a wrench in things. I would go longer if it was possible.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: May I ask the minister if his staff is ready for a switchover? I
don’t see your Deputy of Seniors here.

MR.
GLAVINE: The Deputy of Seniors will be here very shortly, and we could move on
to Seniors if that’s the wish of the caucuses.

[12:48
p.m. The subcommittee recessed.]

[12:51
p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Order. We will now go to the Minister of Communities, Culture and
Heritage.

MR.
GLAVINE: I would like to thank all those who have been involved with questions
during Estimates of CCH. I thank my staff for the great work in preparation for
the four-plus hours of Communities, Culture and Heritage Estimates.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E3 stand?

Resolution
E3 stands.

Resolution
E26 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $1,708,000 be granted to the
Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Nova Scotia Home for
Colored Children Restorative Inquiry, pursuant to the Estimate.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E26 carry?

The
resolution is carried.

We
will take a short recess to change ministries.

[12:53
p.m. The subcommittee recessed.]

[12:55
p.m. The subcommittee reconvened.]

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Order. We will resume the Subcommittee of the Whole on Supply. We
have switched to the Department of Seniors.

Resolution
E38 - Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $2,709,000 be granted to the
Lieutenant Governor to defray expenses in respect of the Department of Seniors,
pursuant to the Estimate.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Minister, would you like to introduce your staff and make your
opening remarks?

HON.
LEO GLAVINE: To my left is Deputy Minister Simon d’Entremont. On my right is
director of the department Faizal Nanji. I have worked with him now for over
four years, so I’m pleased to have him here today. We have Johnathan Wilson, from
Finance.

I’ll
start in with some opening remarks. Older Nova Scotians are a diverse
population and a truly valuable source of knowledge and experience for our
province. Madam Chairman, 25 per cent of people between the ages of 65 and 69
are still in the workforce, and 25 per cent of that group are self-employed.
Others are caregivers, community leaders, mentors, and volunteers. It is
important that we continue to focus on the contributions older adults make in
Nova Scotia. I’m pleased that government has taken a leadership role in
understanding and making the most of our shifting demographics.

If
I could diverge for a moment, I was an MLA when we brought in legislation that
would no longer require mandatory retirement in the Public Service and in
government. In a very short time, we have moved the marker, and the Department
of Seniors is hoping to move it much further. I’m pleased that government has
taken a leadership role in understanding and making the most of our shifting
demographics.

Madam
Chairman, one year ago we launched SHIFT, Nova Scotia’s Action Plan for an
Aging Population. SHIFT is a government-wide initiative that focuses on the
contribution older adults continue to make in this province. It’s our job at
the Department of Seniors to keep SHIFT and older Nova Scotians front of mind
as we develop policies and programs across government.

Our
budget at the Department of Seniors reflects that role. It is small in the
provincial scope, but mighty, as they say. The work staff at the department are
doing extends far beyond our own walls. SHIFT has identified more than 50
actions across eight government departments. Madam Chairman, I’m pleased to
report that we have made significant progress on SHIFT in the first year since
its launch.

One
of the most exciting actions out of SHIFT is Nova Scotia GovLab, the Department
of Seniors’ social innovation lab. You will see this reflected in our budget
materials for 2018-19, when the majority of the work will be done for this
first round.

Last
month, we did a call for fellows to participate in the lab, which seeks to
address complex issues associated with aging populations. A total of 80
applications were received in this inaugural call from industry, academia,
government, and the voluntary sector. From this group, we have identified 30
participants for the first round of the lab, ranging in age from 21 to 86, from
all backgrounds and walks of life, from urban and rural parts of this province
and far beyond. It’s an energetic and diverse group, to say the least. We are
so excited to follow the ideas that come forward during the lab process, but
the majority of the work under the SHIFT action plan takes place outside the
Department of Seniors. You will see those initiatives reflected in the budgets
of other departments.

[1:00
p.m.]

Here’s
a few examples: $2.4 million in additional funding to expand and support
community transportation; $12.4 million to improve housing Nova Scotia’s
provincial buildings, which many older adults call home; $3 million to offer
400 more rent supplements to low income Nova Scotians, the first year of a
three-year commitment to expand the Rent Supplement Program by an additional $9
million annually; an increase in funding for the Seniors’ Pharmacare program;
$5.5 million in additional spending this year through Health and Wellness to
help more seniors stay in their homes longer, including expanding the Caregiver
Benefit Program, bringing the total for home care services to $266 million; $3 million
to double the poverty reduction credit to $500; $4 million for initiatives
under the Blueprint to End Poverty, as part of a four-year, $20 million
commitment; and investments in accessible health care good for older adults,
like more doctors and collaborative care teams and more hip and knee surgeries,
just to name a few.

In
the last year, we implemented changes to the Senior Safety Grant to support
multi-year funding agreements, and we are working to expand the program to more
communities.

We
are funding 47 projects through our Age-Friendly Communities Grant program in
2017-18. I look forward to sharing the details of those projects with you in
the coming months and to another call for proposals to support age-friendly
communities in 2018-19.

Earlier
this month, we hosted the Silver Economy Summit, along with our partners at the
Halifax Chamber of Commerce. This year’s summit focused on the role of
technology for an aging population. We all want to be active and involved in
our communities for as long as possible. Creative thinking and innovation are
essential to improving the quality of life for older adults, not to mention the
opportunities in the marketplace for products and services that serve an aging
population. The Silver Economy Summit provides us with the opportunity to bring
together businesses, entrepreneurs, academics, and individuals from across the
province to make connections and help us take advantage of new opportunities.

I
would also like to take the opportunity to mention a project that the
Department of Seniors has funded in partnership with Acadia University and
Third Sector Enhancement. The Redefining Retirement program is shining a light
on contributions of older adults to our communities and the economy. Through a
series of workshops, coaching sessions, and peer support, participants will
explore and pursue their entrepreneurial dreams from volunteering or looking
for work to starting a business or a social enterprise. The program is
currently in the pilot phase in three communities: St. Margarets Bay,
Windsor-West Hants, and Yarmouth County. I look forward to sharing more with my
colleagues once the pilot portion is complete.

At
the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage, there are several actions
that we will be working on in support of SHIFT. We will be setting a clear
vision for the volunteer sector in Nova Scotia. This will help keep seniors
engaged as well as provide services to seniors within the community by people
who know the community best.

We
know that transportation is important to making our communities age friendly.
We will be developing a plan to support accessible and affordable
transportation across the province.

These
are a few examples of important initiatives that will help Nova Scotians age
and live well. The Department of Seniors will continue to lead coordinated
efforts to ensure that the issues, opportunities, and contributions of older
Nova Scotians are considered in government decision making by bringing a
seniors lens to policy and programs.

Madam
Chairman, I would like to thank the staff of the department, who support these
important programs every day. I hope at this time, in a little more of a public
forum, to acknowledge the outstanding work of a small department, very
dedicated and very knowledgeable in the work that they carry out on behalf of
seniors in our province, and that will be conveyed to them.

With
that, I am pleased to accept questions from my colleagues.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: We will turn it over to the PC caucus for up to one hour. Mr.
Harrison.

MR.
LARRY HARRISON: Thank you, minister, for those comments, and welcome to the
staff. Thank you for being here.

There
is a line in a country song that says I want to talk about me. I’m a senior, so
I’m going to talk about me. I am fascinated by the number of things that the SHIFT
program is about. The plan suggests a lot of priorities for this coming year.
One is to work with partner departments and organizations to implement SHIFT.
Can the minister tell us how this goal is accomplished in terms of
accountability?

MR.
GLAVINE: First of all, I want to say that the Department of Seniors has really
stepped up and is evolving into, I think, a much more focused department, one
that I believe will continue to grow. As we know, the demographic shift is now
a reality. The largest cohort in our population is between 55 and 71 years of
age. I think there are a few members in the House who are encompassed by that
cohort as well. This was why we started to take a look and say, what could be a
strategic piece of work that we could take on that would improve the quality of
life for seniors in our province?

When
I went to the Department of Health and Wellness and also the Department of
Seniors, I would have to say that I found it very discouraging, discomforting,
and not at all where my mindset was when I heard time after time about seniors
being a burden on our province generally and our health care system in
particular. I knew that we had to make a change. Maybe we said the word shift
so much, that’s why we didn’t talk about a senior strategy, and we just called
it SHIFT. I certainly found that more and more as I went out across the
province to talk about the changes we would be bringing about in health care,
and again, it was seniors that were put in the context of this huge expenditure
in health care.

We
wanted to change that thinking pretty dramatically, a paradigm shift that would
actually see what seniors have to contribute to our society, and it is very,
very real. When you look at the life experience, the career path, the expertise,
the talents, and the motivation to stay involved, this is why we have taken on
a concerted effort to put a SHIFT lens on much of the work now that we do in
the department. Again, the SHIFT document is one that I would encourage all my
colleagues to read. SHIFT has, very simply, three major pillars on which
everything is encompassed. The 50 actions are intertwined around three primary
pillars that we work to make sure are enhanced in all our work.

At
the back of SHIFT, there is a report card. The report card is to do that
accounting in year one, year two, and year three. There are regular meetings to
review that. The deputy meets with other deputy ministers. We want to be very
public about what we’re doing with SHIFT and have that report card available,
most likely online or in a very simple one-pager, so that people will be able
to see what is taking place. The three pillars that are outlined in the SHIFT
document are aging in place, a physically active lifestyle, and staying engaged
with community.

Those
are the elements that I’m sure we’ll talk much more about as our discussions go
on here. I look forward to bringing SHIFT in on many occasions here as we take
questions from my colleagues.

MR.
HARRISON: I’m beyond that cohort that you mentioned, by the way.

A
group was into our caucus a number of weeks ago, a seniors group. They were
talking about the contributions that seniors do make, and how people are
working longer now within the province, seniors. They indicated that if it
wasn’t for the seniors, the base upon which we get our revenue would be down a
bit, simply because of experience, work ethic, and so on and so forth. It all
kind of contributes to it.

Is
that something the department really encourages, to have that kind of input by seniors?

MR.
GLAVINE: Again, in the overall work of the Department of Seniors and, in
particular, the direction that the SHIFT document provides us is to stay
working part time or full time. Take one of those dreams that professionals we
met at the Silver Economy Summit had. People who had worked as civil servants
or as tradespeople always have this idea that at some point, I would like to
try this out. We’re finding a whole new group of entrepreneurs and older
business people who are springing forward with those ideas. Again, it’s very
self-directed in terms of what they want to accomplish and the amount of time
they want to put into it and, in some ways, perhaps not as driven by having to
make a living from it, because at this stage, they can have that dedicated time
to put into and foster something.

A
very big part of the involvement, too, is to take that life experience and
expertise into the volunteer world. I know you would be one who would be a
pretty strong proponent of volunteering. On many different levels, volunteering
is such a valuable expression of giving of self and engagement.

[1:15
p.m.]

I
think we are very fortunate in this province to have one of the highest
percentages of volunteerism in the country if not the highest. I think it is the
highest. I believe this is another way for seniors to stay healthy in mind,
body, and soul, by doing some volunteer work.

We
know that in some of our communities, volunteers are absolutely the lifeblood
of the community. So much would not be accomplished if we had to pay for what
volunteers do.

We’re
now approaching Volunteer Week, when the province will recognize those
volunteers. Any of those who have been at the major awards day, it’s very often
to give recognition to a sampling of volunteers - not necessarily the volunteer
of the year in every community. Many communities now just give a representative
of the volunteers. They’re staying engaged and staying involved in terms of
that whole piece around volunteering.

From
a Canadian perspective, volunteers are said to do somewhere around $44 billion
worth of work and involvement if they were paid for that work.

MR.
HARRISON: Most of my communities are rural communities, of course. As you said,
those communities just would not function well if it wasn’t for volunteers.
Most of those volunteers are up there in years, some even in their 80s and 90s.
They get tired and wonder why the next generation doesn’t pick it up as they
picked it up in their time.

Is
there a lot being done as far as the mentorship program is concerned so that
seniors can mentor the generations that are coming up in that kind of mindset?
Regardless of how much we improve in society, there’s always going to be that
need for volunteer work, always going to be a place for that kind of
commitment. Somehow, we need to get that back.

MR.
GLAVINE: That’s an extremely important question and one that we perhaps need to
drill down on a bit more in terms of how we execute that. We know that
mentorship certainly takes place now. We see it in a number of organizations
where older members work with younger members.

I
know, for example, having been in a volunteer fire department for a period of
time - when I joined, it was somebody my own age who kind of took me under
their wing and went through things with me even down to how important it was to
commit to training. In fact, you may even be saving your own life by making
sure you get to all the training. Of course, the trainers were the older
members in the department. I think in many aspects of our Nova Scotia society,
we benefit and are better off when we have good mentorship.

In
terms of the SHIFT work, we have outlined promoting mentorship opportunities
for older adults. We’re currently partnering with Dalhousie University’s Continuing
Education to pilot sessions in communities. One of the communities where we
have a program at the moment is New Glasgow.

We
know that that mentorship is of that next generation of volunteers. Within the
question that the member has talked about, there is some growing concern about
the next generation of volunteers. As older adults, elders, in our communities,
if we take on that role of mentoring, I think it creates easier access for a
young person to feel comfortable, whether it’s coaching, assisting with a
community project, or whatever it may be. I think mentorship plays a very, very
key role.

The
volunteer sector pretty well operates on that goodwill, the feeling of
community. People capture the spirit of their community to be involved and
engaged. The other department that you were asking questions about, CCH, will
actually be developing a voluntary sector plan because we do need to give some
overarching directions to the voluntary sector.

When
it comes to volunteering, we also know that there is a huge return for the
person who does the volunteering. We look at community fundraisers and the
people who prepare the meals, sell the tickets, do the cleanup, whatever goes
on in a community. As MLAs, we probably get that feel for the community dynamic
by the opportunities that we have to go out and go to functions, perhaps say a
few words, and acknowledge people. I would hope that during Volunteer Week,
every one of us would find a way - it doesn’t have to be special placards or
certificates - to say thank you to volunteers. As we stated earlier, they are
key to strong, healthy communities and to the vibrancy that does exist.

It’s
great to see many communities and organizations recognize volunteers. I have
gone to the luncheon where the province recognizes our volunteers. It has to be
one of the most heartening experiences that I think any MLA could go to. If you
haven’t gone, I would absolutely encourage you. Even if we are here in the
House, beg your Leader to let you go for at least a little bit of the time.
When those biographies are read, those tributes to the length and breadth of
volunteerism, it is an amazing profile of these individuals.

There
are two awards that are given out that I find unbelievably heartening, as a
Nova Scotian. It’s the recognition of a family that has a tremendous engagement
of volunteerism, and now to recognize our youth who volunteer. Sure, it took a
little bit of extra planning and logistics to bring the 10 Grade 12 students
from my hometown to the Legislature today, to kind of put the bow on a great
piece of volunteering that they did. They went to the Dominican Republic and
built a home for a needy family. Having spent some time in that country,
believe me, many, many homes could be built to improve quality of life there.

I
want to thank the member for raising it. We all know that perhaps a big
recipient of it are the volunteers themselves, with the degree of satisfaction
that they would have.

I
believe seniors stay very engaged because, again, we all know that purpose and
meaning are important to us. They motivate us. They cause us and allow us to
put in the extra hour and go the extra mile. I thank you for raising that.

I
guess we had some students for a short time here. I am very pleased to have
them here in the Legislature this morning. I didn’t get a chance to explain
what Estimates is all about, but maybe one of their teachers can do that.

MR.
HARRISON: New volunteers.

MR.
GLAVINE: That’s right.

MR.
HARRISON: Are there specific partners or organizations put in place to help
with that mentorship, as kind of a pilot project or whatever?

MR.
GLAVINE: Just to capture that very quickly, the major effort, at the moment, is
to see how we could kind of crystallize that mentoring and foster mentoring. We
are working with Dalhousie University in terms of an education program. We have
a pilot going on in New Glasgow right now. As we see the outcomes of that
effort, we will be able to articulate, in a much more fulsome way, how that can
be replicated across our communities.

I’ll
just bring you to an area that perhaps you will question anyway. That is, of
course, the Age-Friendly Communities Grants, which can be applied for to
support volunteer work in our communities. That’s certainly a program that is
making a difference.

MR.
HARRISON: What is the budget for that program?

MR.
GLAVINE: In terms of the Age-Friendly Communities Grants, that is being funded
to the tune of $372,000, with representation covering, pretty well, the
province: 14 out of 18 counties with specific initiatives. Then there are some,
of course, that will have a provincial scope, as well.

Currently,
we have 47 applications for Age-Friendly Communities Grants. That supports the
bigger concept of developing age-friendly communities. Just to give you a
little bit of a snippet here of the kind of work and the variety of
initiatives, there’s AFC planning and expansion in Queens and Cape Breton,
aging in place initiatives at Northwood, a Nova Scotia Home Builders pilot,
time banking in Richmond County, exercise programs in Antigonish County, social
supports for low income older adults at the Metro Non-profit Housing
Association, community transportation connected to social opportunities in
Lunenburg County, services in rural communities in Hants County, food security
in Annapolis County, connecting seniors with youth in Cumberland County, and
older adult engagement in Shelburne County.

This
is a program that we look at in every community. Every one of those initiatives
ties into SHIFT. That is engagement and involvement. While I’m minister, the
goal is to see all 18 counties getting Age-Friendly Communities Grants to
support our aging demographic.

[1:30
p.m.]

There’s
a line that I like to use because I think it can be very real for seniors. I
opened up speaking about what I experienced, and probably my colleague Mr.
Wilson did as well, as Minister of Health and Wellness. There’s so often a
reference to seniors as a burden on the health care system. We want to really
change that dynamic. I believe, if given the opportunity - seniors and
especially the boomers have wanted to impact every stage of the life cycle.
Baby boomers have challenged and have shaped many aspects of life in our
communities and in our North American society. Here in Nova Scotia, we need to
foster that spirit, that attitude, that approach where seniors can be
continuing to shape the life of our province. I believe those opportunities can
deliver great dividends for us in the quality of life of our communities. It’s
one that I think we as boomers need to be fostering at every opportunity.

We
work proactively to get applications from areas that didn’t get grants in the
past. We have not stood still in the Department of Seniors on this. We all know
that there are many grants that organizations and people can apply for but are
sometimes not aware of. Again, one of the areas that we are working on in the
Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage now is basically a directory of
all the grants that are available. We are actually putting much of that grant
system in the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage because, whether
it’s seniors or whether it’s youth, it is community development. Having an
opportunity to get the grants out to citizens and, in this case, to seniors is
absolutely critical.

MR.
HARRISON: I saw a book years ago that had all the grants in it that the
government had, and I don’t think there’s a book now. I’m not sure. It’s not a
book that was widespread. It’s just that an individual in the system had it,
and I saw it. My goodness, the things that we didn’t know about, the grants
that we had no idea were there. Is it at all possible for the department to
make available to the MLAs what grants are available?

MR.
GLAVINE: One of the things that I would certainly make people aware of, and
I’ll have to ask whether there is an electronic version of this or not, is the
seniors’ directory, the Positive Aging booklet. If you haven’t in the past,
MLAs can have a box of them come to their office to distribute. You need to
contact the Department of Seniors to make sure you get that.

The
online version, for us, is encouraging seniors to use 211, which has become an
exceptional directory for many citizens of course. In particular, now in the
Department of Seniors, we’re no longer handling the kind of calls that were
pretty traditional. Where can you find a foot care specialist? Is there a
seniors’ club in my community or close by? For any and all of these areas now,
a call to 211 is the answer.

I
went over to visit 211. I know the deputy and Faizal have kept very close
contact with 211. What I think we have all been amazed by is the learning that
is part of the requirement for those who are doing the service at 211. I was
really quite amazed at the very detailed knowledge of communities right across
the province and what services exist in those communities. One of the ways that
MLAs - if you put out a publication or an ad, reference 211 as a directory that
will give seniors that just-in-time information that they will often require.

We’re
also doing a promotion campaign throughout this winter to encourage seniors to
use 211 and tell them a little bit about the strength of that particular
service. I think it’s a great way for the department to have gone. That is
creating that expertise at 211, as opposed to a very small Seniors Department
trying to manage those calls while working on other programs that are important
to the department. So, 211 has pretty well become the vehicle now for our
seniors, and they’re keeping up to date on what additional services are
available in their communities.

One
of the benefits to a growing and diverse Nova Scotia is the number of languages
in which we can call 211. Right now, when we can tap in to 211, what would be a
national service, there are 24 languages available through the 211 service, and
it’s a 24/7 service as well.

MR.
HARRISON: When you mentioned the Positive Aging booklet, there are days I walk
by, and I’ll just turn it around. Don’t see much positive those days, and there
are days.

It
has been my dream actually to have - the EAs struggle to find out where things
are for constituents. Eventually, maybe after a few days and a dozen phone
calls, we might zero in on something. Again, if we just knew what grants are
available and what facilities were available for people, we could probably do a
whole lot more than what we’re doing now. It’s mainly seniors - we’re trying to
get something in place that’s going to work for them, whether it be housing,
health, or whatever the case may be. I find it a real struggle at times for
sure.

How
much time do I have left?

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: You have about 32 minutes.

MR.
HARRISON: I don’t have to make the shift yet, okay.

MR.
GLAVINE: I would make an interjection here. Very often, our department, in
terms of the Age-Friendly Communities Grants, has a seniors group that is
looking at something that is maybe not a traditional activity. In fact, our Seniors
Department will even work and help seniors groups shape an application and
support them. Those 47 applications that will get support this year, it’s very
often a real change agent for that group, that organization. We’re very pleased
with the diversity of grants that go out. I would encourage you to foster, with
our department, any group that you think could benefit from an Age-Friendly Communities
Grant.

MR.
HARRISON: That’s a compliment I gave your department the last time we spoke,
because the staff is really helpful in trying to formulate an application for a
particular grant. I find that very helpful. Sometimes community groups,
especially if they are seniors that are trying to put that in, don’t always
have ideas of how that should go, how the papers should be filled out and so
on. I was glad that your department has volunteered to help with that. That’s a
positive.

MR.
GLAVINE: That’s great, thank you.

MR.
HARRISON: Partnering with organizations involved in the entrepreneurship
education to promote that, including social as well, is a viable option for
older adults. Who are the partners and organizations in that, for that kind of
education?

MR.
GLAVINE: Senior entrepreneurship?

MR.
HARRISON: Yes.

MR.
GLAVINE: One of the groups is working with the Acadia Centre for Business, and
this is a three-year program. It has the title of Redefining Retirement. It’s
to help participants find purpose and opportunity as an older adult. There’s funding
of $30,000 per year to pilot in three communities: St. Margarets Bay,
Windsor-West Hants, and Yarmouth County. This is a pilot opportunity, but we
know that as this emerges, there will be many other communities that will want
to be able to take somebody who has a great idea and help them cultivate and
foster that idea. We all know that business success can be enhanced by getting
mentorship and knowledge to enable them to have success. The Centre for
Entrepreneurship Education and Development, CEED, is also developing senior
entrepreneurship and training.

As
I said earlier, there are people, and maybe the member is one of them, who have
had a bit of an idea of something they may like to do in terms of a small business
after a particular career. It is kind of basic Business 101, if you wish, that
people need to know about. Just based on that community of 50 plus, there’s a
five-year survival rate of 70 per cent, and it’s 28 per cent for everyone else.
That tells us that accumulation of knowledge, that acumen, that
people would bring to a business as an older person lends itself to success and
a good opportunity.

As
well, one of the realities that we need to be taking into account is that
people are living longer and want a high degree of independence. A statistic
that comes to mind is that people are living 20 years longer today than they
did 100 years ago. Very often, people are dividing up that life spectrum, that
lifespan and saying, I’m going to do this for so many years, and when I turn
60, 65, or whatever, I’m going to venture on that personal passion that they
may have and want to embark upon. We’re seeing more and more of that.

[1:45
p.m.]

Unfortunately,
I have to do the speaking here, but my deputy and Faizal could really express
what has happened in the last two years in Pictou and this year here in Halifax
at the Nova Centre when we held the senior summit. I certainly got a little bit
of an insight into the kind of ventures that people are embarking on. I think
that’s something we’ll see soon, something published, opportunities for people
all over this province.

Our
province and Florida have the two oldest populations in North America. I
believe we can be a little bit of an incubator for seniors’ projects, seniors’
entrepreneurism, seniors’ businesses, and people who start anywhere from 60
onward.

Coming
into our GovLab, which I mentioned in my opening remarks, we have somebody as
old as 86 who looks at life as still being full of possibilities. That’s what
they’ll bring to that table, creativity and ingenuity to do something in that
latter part of their life. We funded CEED last year with $15,000 to develop an
education module that would help senior entrepreneurs, those about to embark on
a business so that some of those entrenched practices could be at their
fingertips right from the word go.

I know that one of the mythic areas that we’re working to explode
is the fact that seniors take away jobs from young people. When the analysis is
actually done, very often seniors have the idea, seniors start the business,
and then seniors employ young people. We’re seeing that kind of growth and
opportunity for young people as well, especially in businesses that do require
that energy and a person who could carry out maybe some of the manual work.

It’s
amazing that seniors keep themselves in good physical shape and a physical,
active lifestyle which we’re certainly trying to promote through SHIFT as well.
Seniors are not looking at the world and seeing barriers but are seeing more
and more opportunity and bringing young people along.

There’s
an interesting statistic that we often don’t kind of fashion or speak to. That
is, let’s say you are planning retirement at 60, 65, or 70. If people actually
said I’m going to work one more year longer, GDP would go up by 2.8 per cent.
Very often, people retire, and they’re probably at the pinnacle of knowledge
and expertise - what they can bring to a company in staying on to mentor.

Again,
there’s a little bit of a reference here to the older members of the civil
service that I really like.

One
of the complaints that I have heard for many, many years as an MLA - I think it
may be due to the fact that some of us have been around here for quite a long
time, maybe too long. I know there are a couple of us here in the room who are
in our 14th year as MLAs. Very often young people would ask me, and
maybe some of them did because I was their teacher, how you get a government
job. For a hundred years, or for however long, I would see postings that
required three years of experience. Taking that away in the civil service has
caused an influx of youth to jobs because now we are putting out the notice
that you do not need X amount of experience. Many are coming in and are being
mentored by older members. They are also bringing along new ideas and new
energies, looking at a career path within the civil service.

One
of the little gems we have in our province I haven’t spoken about today, and it
is another one of those areas that if you have an opportunity to explore and
get out to meet people, take it. It is the Centre on Aging at Mount Saint
Vincent University. They have been there for 25 years. For 25 years, they have
been looking at aging, whether it was a caregiver program or assisted
technology in a home, which is more on the health side, of course. They are now
studying an older workforce and what those benefits can be for government and
for a business, and the impact on the individuals themselves in staying very
engaged - a greater degree of well-being and a greater degree of life
satisfaction - to be able to quantify that and to be able to articulate for
individuals what that would mean. I think it’s a wonderful project.

What
we decided as the Department of Seniors, was not to just say, that’s great -
you’re a university, and part of your mandate is to do research and pass it on
to the population. What we did at the Department of Seniors is actually sign an
MOU where we would support them financially and get the benefits of research
back so the Department of Seniors can actually put this across the province in
terms of knowledge, in terms of practice, in terms of policy, and in terms of
programs to benefit the senior population.

I
think we have an opportunity to be looked at with some of the work that we are
doing. Our department, under the leadership of the deputy minister, has had
opportunities, and SHIFT has come out, to speak at conferences in Canada. We
got an invitation to San Francisco to speak about what we are doing in our
province. It is my view that this opportunity now is one that we should
capture. As soon as you mention the aging demographic - other provinces will go
through this. Some provinces are the beneficiaries of an immense amount of
immigration, younger immigrants, which balances it out, but they are still
going to have that whole postwar baby boom to deal with. Other jurisdictions
have begun to look at us here in Nova Scotia, at what we are doing and what the
ways are of keeping seniors healthy, engaged, and how our communities are
responding to their needs.

We
often have used the cliché that it takes a village to raise a child. I think it
is going to take our villages, our communities, and a whole provincial thrust
to take care of that number of seniors. We will get very close to 30 per cent
of our population over the age of 65 all at one time. How do we do it? How do
we do it well? I believe that’s both our challenge and our opportunity. We will
have jurisdictions that will look at what we do here.

My
hope is that the Department of Seniors and the Department of Communities,
Culture and Heritage, through developing healthy communities, can have some
lead practices going on in our communities that support seniors and help
seniors stay in their communities and remain involved. I’ll bet you there is no
MLA in this House who is not inspired perhaps weekly or certainly occasionally
by seniors who are breaking the barriers of age in what they do, what they
accomplish, how they volunteer, staying at work, or whatever it may be. I think
there’s a great story yet to be written about how that baby boom cohort become
leaders well into their senior years. Hopefully, some of us will be around to
join a centenarian club, and we’ll be able to say how we shaped those decades
as the baby boomers went through the life cycle.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Just to let you know, eight minutes.

MR.
HARRISON: Eight minutes. I’m going to make a shift.

Housing
Nova Scotia, that’s a big one. That’s a big one. There are a lot of senior
homes in my area, and a lot of the buildings need work done to them. What is
the system for assessing a particular seniors’ complex or whatever and getting
the work done?

MR.
GLAVINE: That is a very big area. In my opening remarks, I did reference and
highlight the fact that we relate to many departments. We actually have a small
budget. Anytime the work of the Seniors Department is explored, we realize the
kind of needs that seniors have. We realize that housing is one of those big
areas.

In
the last budget, there was $12.4 million more to improve Housing Nova Scotia’s
public housing buildings. We know that that will certainly include the seniors
housing. Across the province, many of our communities, towns, and villages of
any size have some seniors’ housing. That comes under the Department of
Community Services. I think that that amount of money should make some of the
timely improvements that they require. Many of them are showing their age.

More
than that, additional inventory of seniors housing needs to be added to the
current amount that we have. There’s $3 million to offer 400 more rent
supplements to low-income Nova Scotians. In that, as we know, part of that big
challenge that will be on us as a province and as a country, is how we find the
best housing and the proper housing for seniors.

[2:00
p.m.]

If you take a couple who are on OAS and the supplement, we
are talking about an income of about $24,000 a year, roughly $12,000 each.
Therefore, there are limitations on trying to maintain and keep your home or,
if you have always had an apartment, have adequate accommodation. The rent
supplements and additional seniors housing and some that will meet assisted
living requirements, because if we’re going to keep seniors in their homes or
rental units, we know that some assistance and assisted living has to be part
of that housing mix.

As
MLAs, we know that there is a great program to support assistance to upkeep of
our individual homes. It’s a $25 million program, and many seniors benefit from
that. I have dealt with seniors who needed a new septic system, needed to drill
a well. What about when that furnace goes out in the winter, and it’s 38 years
old and gone? That’s where these seniors’ housing and emergency housing
requirements are being met.

It
is absolutely my belief that we can’t talk about keeping seniors in their homes
unless we are going to support the very dwellings they live in with some upkeep
and with assistance. This program here is absolutely vital because there are
seniors - this is frankly speaking - who went to our nursing homes because
their actual home was no longer suitable for living in. Yes, they were elderly,
but it was literally their houses that took them and put them on the list.

I
believe strongly in this program. Creating a priority of meeting the needs of
seniors to stay in their homes is incumbent upon us as a government to meet
those challenges as much as possible.

MR.
HARRISON: Is this program different from going through Community Services?

MR.
GLAVINE: That’s a great question. In the SHIFT document, there will be $26
million for seniors’ housing. I am not sure over what period of time that will
be for, but now there is a concerted effort to make sure that an appropriate
and adequate number of seniors’ units will be addressed.

MR.
HARRISON: These are the things that I wish we had information on in our office
right up front so that we wouldn’t have to go scrambling to find out where to
go for this kind of thing.

Do
I have enough time to tell a story?

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: One minute.

MR.
HARRISON: Oh, goodness. I’m not going to get the story out in one minute. Okay.

I’ve
been dealing with a family now for, I would say, over two years. They’re
seniors, and they live way out in the woods. They were given a house and a
piece of land by an older gentleman. They’ve been there for 20-some years. The
house is now falling apart - the roof, the windows. If you even mention going
somewhere else, they hit the roof: we’ve lived here all this time, we’re gonna
die here, I’m not moving. We cannot get a deed to that property in their name,
so we’re stymied. We can’t go to Housing because you need to have a deed in
order to make the application. We’re just at a loss of what to do for this
couple.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Order. Time has elapsed for the Progressive Conservatives. We’ll hand
it over to the NDP. Mr. Wilson.

MR.
GLAVINE: Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I’ll just quickly respond.

I
would ask, Madam Chairman, if after answering the question, I could have a
couple minutes’ break. That would be appreciated.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Okay.

MR.
GLAVINE: Those are those wonderful things that sometimes come out in Estimates
and come out in conversations among MLAs. In this case, it’s not so much
finding ways to reduce red tape but assisting in every way to enable that
couple to be able to stay in their home. No matter how humble, it’s home. If
you still have that individual case, I would like to meet with you and get some
details and see if there is some kind of legal service that could be available
to them. We could make that known and facilitate if possible.

MR.
HARRISON: Thank you.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: We’ll take a short recess.

[2:06
p.m. The committee recessed.]

[2:15
p.m. The committee reconvened.]

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Order. We will resume. Mr. Wilson.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: I just want to say welcome to the minister. I look forward to
engaging on some questions and issues around seniors here in the province. I
think what I’ll do, just to get it out of the way, is go right to - I always
like to look at the line items in the budget. I’ll go right to that, using the
budget, Pages 21.2 and 21.3, just to get some updates and some information on
some of the figures on the budget line items. Then we’ll get into some of the
policies and initiatives that are going to happen over the next year.

If
we look at the budget for Seniors’ Initiatives, we see about a $400,000
increase. I know we may duplicate some of the line of questioning that was
already put to the minister, but I wonder if you could just give us an
indication of what the increase in $400,000 for Seniors’ Initiatives would be.

MR.
GLAVINE: I welcome my colleague Mr. Wilson, who has been asking me questions
for quite some time now.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: I think you’ve asked me some questions also over the years.

MR.
GLAVINE: That’s right. We have had this back-and-forth over the years.

I
wasn’t sure which area we were speaking to, but the new money in 2018-19 is an
increase to the Social Innovation Lab of $100,000, to the Seniors’ Safety
expansion of $50,000, and taking on funding of Community Links, $264,000. That
comprises that $408,000 budget increase. You may have some further questions on
each of those.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: That would be great. If we could just get into the seniors lab -
I wonder if the minister could just give us a quick rundown on exactly what the
funds would be used for. I don’t know if you could provide a breakdown of
before the $400,000. If you can, that would be great. If not, I wonder if you
could give us a brief breakdown of that $100,000 for the lab.

MR.
GLAVINE: In terms of the Social Innovation Lab, this is an area coming out of
SHIFT, out of the need to look at and explore innovative and creative ideas
that could support seniors in a number of aspects of their living. This is now
being set up. The first request has already gone out.

The
concept was built around an idea which has actually been emerging on a very
small scale in the Department of Seniors. With the early possibilities that
we’re seeing come before us, we decided to go the full distance on this. The
actual increase will mean that staffing, the pilots, the administration - this
will be altogether a significant investment. It’s really designed to shape some
of our seniors policy for the future. With the advance that went out, we had
about 80 applications in this first ask. We created positions called fellows to
lead these discussions and the sermon of ideas and innovative thinking that
will come forward. I think it was 37 that were selected in this first round.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: Also, you mentioned the $50,000 for safety. Is that a new
initiative, new program? Or is that adding to a current one?

MR.
GLAVINE: I’m sure the member is knowledgeable of the Seniors Safety Program.
Its ask across the province has been expanding. I would give a lot of credit to
the Department of Seniors for actually going to parts of the province that did not
have a program to support seniors in terms of the work being done. I know that
in my community and in Kings County, the lady who does the Seniors Safety
Program carries out very ambitious work year over year working with the RCMP.
In fact, just recently, I recognized her work, which she has been doing now for
a number of years.

Many
seniors don’t even have a basic shredder in their homes. They worry about
shredding sensitive documents, so our senior safety officer, for about 10 years
now, has been running a shredding program in conjunction with the RCMP. I just
highlight that as one of those areas.

With
the advance of $50,000, we have added Richmond, Victoria, and Colchester to the
list now of counties that have a senior safety officer. The two without are
Inverness and Guysborough, and we’re hoping to add those next year and have
this valued program across the province.

One
of the other areas that I know the member probably dealt with during his time
in government is programs that are given funding for one year. There’s always
that wonderment especially among those who are executing the program: should I
stay with it? We only have funding for one year. Now we have gone to three-year
contracts because we have found some very exceptional people. I know government
would appreciate those who deliver our programs and that high quality and
dedication. A three-year opportunity, by way of a contract, now gives them that
planning that I think will even strengthen their work.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: I would agree. I think one of the biggest challenges for programs
and organizations is sustainable funding, even if it’s three years. Often, a
lot of the programs are year-to-year, and it can be challenging for those
organizations.

The
two areas that won’t have a senior safety officer - I think you call it that .
. .

MR.
GLAVINE: Senior safety officer, yes.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: Inverness and Guysborough - you mentioned they will be addressed
next year. Is it that you couldn’t find somebody for those areas, or enough
funding wasn’t available this year? Or was it something different?

MR.
GLAVINE: In fact, when I became Minister of Seniors, I wanted to get a little
bit of an overview of their work. I met with senior safety officers in Digby
and Yarmouth. What I liked about their work is, I saw it being tied in to
support for seniors to stay in their home. We all know that seniors are very,
very susceptible - probably maybe all of us are - to fraud, to those scams that
come along. Part of the work of the senior safety officer is to explore those
calls that seniors will receive and respond to them.

We
have been gaining a lot of learnings from the senior safety officers in
developing that mandate, that prospectus for their work. It took a bit of time,
and yes, we didn’t budget for it this year, but we want to have the right
person who would be doing this kind of work.

One
of the communities that I went to is the Yarmouth-Shelburne area. They were
making house calls to seniors living alone and going out to see them any time
there was a different car coming up their driveway or anything that they would
observe in their community or at their homes that they were wondersome about.
They are involved with education, and I know they put on seminars in the
communities.

If
we as MLAs haven’t tapped into our senior safety officers, it’s another one of
those wonderful services that is available. They pick up on individual issues,
as well as giving great information about any worries that they may have about
their personal banking or their daily affairs. The senior safety officers look
into those for them. The goal is to have this in the budget next year and have
it province-wide.

We
have looked upon a number of our programs in the Department of Seniors as -
also, when the community is ready for it, we can talk to a town council or the
county councillors. Part of it is the readiness of a community to take on these
programs. It’s just now that Guysborough is expressing an interest. We’ll take
that interest and make sure that each program receives the money that will
allow them to move the program forward; $30,000 was added last year for
professional development to bring them together.

There
is a great base now that is emerging whereby we’ll almost have that booklet, if
you wish, for the new senior safety officers who will come along this year and
come on next year. We have great experience now so that they can quickly get
into their work and have success at the work that the program wants to deliver.

One
of the things that the deputy minister embarked on when he came into the
department was to take a look at what programs are working and that are
valuable. Seniors’ safety was one, and very clearly, the direction was that
there are always a number of different grants to support seniors, but please
make sure you keep the senior safety officer program. It’s highly valued and
valuable, and we want to see it province-wide.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: I know there is a lot of information in that seniors’ guide I
have in my office, which I provide to churches, senior organizations, and other
facilities in my riding. Are senior safety officers’ contacts in that guide? If
not, could you provide them or make sure the committee or the MLAs have those
contacts throughout the province?

Often,
we do get calls from family members. We know a lot of the contacts for our own
area but not for around the province. I wonder if the minister could answer
that.

[2:30
p.m.]

MR.
GLAVINE: It is available in the seniors’ guide, the Positive Aging Directory.
As well, 211 becomes the directory for seniors to get that contact. As we
promote not just 211 but all seniors services, it’s one of those things that
our senior safety officers identify to seniors, through our publications or
other ways in which we’re getting information out to the public. I think this
is another great opportunity. The guide, as we all know, has a wealth of
information around recreation opportunities, housing services, and home care.
The senior safety officers are identified.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: I would agree. You mentioned shredding, and I know the RCMP have
done some initiatives in the community I represent a number of times. We try to
encourage those we know in the community who would benefit from it especially
around identity theft and the scams that are going on. It’s very easy for them
to do that. I was amazed.

My
father-in-law, who passed away a number of years ago, was very smart and worked
hard over his life. He fell easily for a credit card scam where he gave his
credit card number out. As soon as he hung the phone up, he knew, and he called
me. I went, that doesn’t sound right. Of course, they ripped him off for
several thousand dollars. It’s easy, and it’s not just very vulnerable people.
It’s the way they can manipulate and make it sound all right. They were trying
to encourage him to amalgamate some of his loans or something like that.

I
know elder abuse remains a concern for many, not only physical. One that I deal
with quite a bit over the years is financial elder abuse of seniors, family
members and friends taking advantage of seniors. I often discuss this with my
wife. She works at the credit union. She sees it a lot first-hand. Do the
senior safety officers play a role in that? Are they able to assist family
members or seniors who fall victim of senior abuse, especially in the financial
area of their daily lives?

MR.
GLAVINE: Again, their work is much more directed towards being proactive -
obviously, helping to investigate, bringing it to the RCMP or community
policing to investigate. The senior safety officer will put on workshops to
help people identify, be knowledgeable, and just be leery of that kind of call,
even down to providing some individual counselling. That is the work of dealing
with elder abuse.

Two-one-one
takes our senior abuse phone line. We provide education to 211 staff as well so
that they are that immediate line of contact. We really are working to embed
211 with anything that our seniors have to inquire about, that they have
wonderment or doubt about, if they want something investigated, want the best
person or service close to where they live. We know that that’s one of the
services available.

We
have also developed senior abuse guidance material on the website. It’s called Understanding
Senior Abuse. I think the member here has identified that there are many
different forms of senior abuse that can take place. Sometimes, the very sad
reality is that it is within the family that the senior abuse is taking place. Again,
as our population or demographic is going through that major aging, I would
encourage our MLAs to make a point, almost each time you put out a publication,
to include a reminder or some new tip for seniors, a piece of information or knowledge
that will make them much more aware. Unfortunately, this is a phenomenon that
is not going to go away. The better our seniors are educated, alerted, then I
feel very strongly that it can be part of our ongoing jobs and supporting our
seniors.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: I think all members would agree that the senior safety officers
are important. I think we would all agree that it’s a wise investment, and I
would hope that all areas of the province would have access to that.

Saying
that, I do want to go back to some line items in the budget, the same line item
actually, the Seniors’ Initiatives. When I looked at it, if my math is right -
the estimate for 2017-18 was $1.747 million, and the forecast was $1.674
million, so an underspend of about $73,000.

You
have a small department, and I would say that every dollar counts in your
department. I would also say that you probably should have a larger budget to
address the seniors’ issues in our province. I wonder if you can give any
details on why roughly $73,000 was underspent in the seniors’ initiatives last
year? Was there something that couldn’t get off the ground, a program, a
service? I’m just wondering if you could give us some details about that
underspend of about $73,000.

MR.
GLAVINE: In fact, the very area that we have been talking about is the Senior
Safety Program, and the program in Cape Breton dropped out of the Senior Safety
Program. We’re hoping that the individual just moved on, and we didn’t have
somebody to replace them. That is a major part of that variance. Also, in the
very early days of seeing how we would set up the Innovation Lab, there was
some thousands of dollars that didn’t get spent because there was a delay in
the innovation lab start-up.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: We’re looking at $1.6 million spent last year. I don’t know if
you have it on hand, but I’m wondering if you could table the documents
outlining exactly where it all went. I know we talk about it, and we know about
different initiatives, but it’s very effective for me. Part of the reason I
often ask for the tabling of the outline of how the money was spent in the
previous years is that next year, if you’re still the Minister of Seniors, I’ll
be asking the same questions and trying to hold you and your government to
account to make sure that, if you announce a program, if you announce
initiatives, you follow through on them.

I
understand why in budgets, there is underspending at times. This is a way for
me and our caucus to make sure that we fully understand it. I’m wondering if
that’s something that the minister could table for us, how the money was spent
last year.

MR.
GLAVINE: Estimates are about accountability, about drilling down on details of
how the money is advanced and spent through the department. One of the things
that I know the member would be very familiar with is that seniors spending is
tied into a number of other departments. Whether it’s the Seniors’ Pharmacare
program, or whether it’s Housing, these are all big expenditures that support
our seniors. We can get you the 2017-18 breakdown of the budget.

This
year, just to give a very quick overview, the seniors safety initiative is 21
per cent of the budget at $569,000. Policy and planning is $305,000, 11 per
cent. The Group of IX is a $17,000 item. The Social Innovation Lab is $496,000,
18 per cent of the budget. The Office of the Deputy Minister is $233,000, 9 per
cent. General administration is $330,000, 12 per cent. The Age-Friendly
Communities program is $759,000 at 28 per cent of the budget.

In
there is a pretty good alignment of the percentage of dollars in the budget
that would be going out for actual programming and assistance to seniors versus
the administration and coordination of the departments. One of the other
factors that will show in the 2017-18 budget year is some staff variances that are
reflected in the FTE variance.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: I did write some of those down, but I would appreciate maybe a
detailed clean copy, if you can, by the end of Estimates. I’ll give you until
next Friday. How’s that?

MR.
GLAVINE: Perfect.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: I will continue on with line items. On Page 21.2, we go down to
departmental expenses. We see Salary and Employee Benefits, and I know you have
mentioned that the estimate of full-time employees was nine, and you went to
7.2, so there was a bit of an underspend, but this year you go back. There will
be an increase from forecast to estimate and estimate to estimate.

I
am just wondering, is that just contract requirements for that increase? From
forecast estimates, I think it will be about $245,000. I also noted here that
it’s almost two full-time staff added. I’m just wondering, can you give a
little bit of detail on that increase of this year’s Budget Estimate for Salary
and Employee Benefits?

MR.
GLAVINE: Just to go back to an earlier question, there is tracking over the
years, over a decade, of the amount of money in the Department of Seniors.
Since it has become a dedicated department, not an Office of Seniors - they
moved around for a few years in a couple of different locations. I believe we
now have a very fine staff there. We have increased the budget for seniors
starting in 2016 up to the present. It is now at the highest level that the
department has been funded.

The
increase in particular that you are referencing includes most of the funding
for the Innovation Lab. We also had a couple of staff vacancies for a while
last year. If we take those salaries and new positions for the lab, that would
account for the dollar value that you have asked about.

[2:45
p.m.]

MR.
DAVID WILSON: A couple of lines down to Grants and Contributions, looking at
the estimate last year to the forecast, we see increased spending of about
$211,000. I’m just wondering if you could give us the detail for that increase
between estimate and forecast of last year’s budget.

MR.
GLAVINE: The variance that’s there was the fact that there were some savings in
the department. We put out more grants than originally had been planned. That’s
where those monies were directed. We can drill down further if you want the
detail around where those grants actually were distributed.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: We don’t need to go into details now. If that’s part of what you
provide for the breakdown in the last year, I’m okay with that. Part of how I
evaluate these budgets often is looking in between the lines here and trying to
reflect next year’s budget. I would hope both of us will be here again, maybe
in different roles. Who knows? I would appreciate that. It would go a long way.
If you could provide that at a later date, that’s fine.

I’m
going to get into the SHIFT action plan in a minute, but I know in your
exchanges with my colleague in the previous hour, you talked about seniors in
the workforce and initiatives that are moving towards supporting them. I do see
a difference in the workforce around the province. We’re starting to recognize
more senior residents are continuing to work longer. It’s something that I have
seen a lot over the years when I travel to the U.S. especially. There’s a whole
slew of reasons why seniors in the U.S. continue to work longer in their lives.
Most of it revolves around Medicare down there and having a job so that they
can get health care. You just have to go to Disney World and be amazed by the
age of many who work in Disney just because of the benefit packages there for
health, dental, and others.

Would
the minister agree that the reality is that there are many seniors who continue
to work because they need to, to make ends meet? I know a lot of your
initiatives and a lot of what you have talked about is seniors who want to be
innovative, want to start a business. I don’t dispute that, but there are many
seniors who have to continue to work to make ends meet. Would the minister
agree with that, and would he have any comments? Is it a trend, or is it something
that I’m just kind of paying more attention to because I’m getting older? I’m
getting older, and I realize there’s someone a lot older than me still working.
I wonder if the minister could comment on that.

MR.
GLAVINE: Thank you very much for that opening to speak about the workforce.
Some refer to it as the graying of the workforce. At one time, we saw elderly
people who were Walmart greeters or who did some seasonal work or selling
tickets and so forth. Today, as the member mentioned, we’re seeing people who
want to remain working and active, people who have a lot to contribute. There
are some working out of necessity because people are living longer, don’t have
a strong pension, and require some additional income to support themselves, to
live in their home. In particular, women who were never the primary earners in
their home - a husband passes, and some of these women have gone back to do
some part-time work. We’re seeing people who are recognizing that, with the
demands and costs of living in their home and wanting to have a reasonable
quality of life, they need some additional income more than OAS and the
supplement. We are finding that now, especially between 50 and 65.

Last
year, we increased the basic personal exemption in taxes. That helped the low
wage earner, the unskilled worker. We have the seniors tax rebate and the home
heating rebate. These are all assists, but in more and more cases, people do
need some work. In the Annapolis Valley, we’re finding seniors now who will go
and participate in the harvest and get in a couple of months of work. That as
well is especially important if they have a home improvement project on the go.
It gives them that little boost of so many thousands of dollars to enable them
to stay in their home, maintain a car, and have a reasonable quality of life.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: Interestingly, this came up just recently. A senior who continues
to work past the age of 65 asked me about benefits and workers’ compensation. I
believe the policy now is, if you’re over the age of 65, and you’re injured at
work - if they’re working full time, and they pay into WCB benefits - they’ll
only cover benefits for two years.

Does
your department have any role? Have you been advocated for by the Group of IX,
or any other groups? With this shift in our demographics that we’re seeing - we
have an aging population, we have an aging workforce. We’re shifting policies
and services, but WCB has that limited window if you’re hurt on the job after
65. Has there been any discussion of looking at changing that policy to reflect
what’s truly happening out there? Our population is working older. They could
be working until 75 if they wanted to, but if they’re injured at 66, they only
have benefits for two years. That puts them at a disadvantage, especially if
they’re working because they need to continue to work. Even if it’s not a
direct financial need, we should be treating them fairly. Do you have a comment
on that policy of a two-year window for anybody over 65 who may be injured at work?

MR.
GLAVINE: In terms of the SHIFT document and the goals, we certainly set in
place a number of areas to have employers support older workers in the
workplace. That’s part of what we have been doing, whether it’s demonstrating
how age-friendly, inclusive, intergenerational workplaces can value older
workers, or educating employers about age- friendly workplaces and emerging
human resource practices. A lot of these things are in SHIFT. They’re becoming,
both in the public and private sectors, more and more how they’re going about
doing their business.

Carrying
on a benefit like WCB, which we know is very important, especially in times
when we have a family to look after, is a critical support. The changing nature
- we’re seeing not just between 65 and 70, now 65 and 75 is becoming a very
important part of that age spectrum where people are doing full- or part-time
work. That is now running right across the 10-year period of 65 to 75, about 20
to 25 per cent of that age group.

We
have begun a dialogue. That’s the only place that we’re at, at the moment, in
conversation with WCB. That’s being asked for - that 67-year-old who is still
physically able, mentally able, doing the job, but gets an injury. It has come
to the Department of Seniors, probably to other government departments as well,
to engage in conversation to see where that may go. It’s a valuable topic that
has been raised.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: I appreciate that, and I would hope that that dialogue is
something that happens sooner rather than later. It would be a significant
change in WCB policy, but the data is there. If we know 20 to 25 per cent of
our workers are continuing to work between 65 and 75, I think it’s time to
update those polices. I know the challenge. Listen, I’ve been fighting for WCB
changes for many years now, because the individuals we’re talking about, if we
wait five or 10 years, many seniors will lose out.

I
hope that’s a commitment from your department and yourself to move those
discussions along and remind your colleagues, the Premier, and those who sit
around the Treasury Board table that we need to look at this policy shift. It
might be a good question in Question Period over the next couple weeks, so just
be prepared. I guess it wouldn’t go directly to you, but maybe I will engage in
that question using the comments you had. I appreciate that.

An
hour goes by quick. We have about 15, 20 minutes?

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: You have 15 minutes.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: Earlier with my colleague you talked about SHIFT. Another area that
has always been top of mind in the community that I represent is housing and
housing opportunities, especially for seniors.

When
I was first elected in 2003, seniors in the community that I represent, if they
got to the position of needing a long-term care placement, they had to leave
the community. Sackville kind of exploded in the early 1970s when government
realized we needed to support Nova Scotians in buying their first home,
building their first home. The community has grown over the last 40 or 50
years. I’m very glad to say that there is a long-term care facility now in our
community. Secondary to that, before long-term care, there weren’t many options
for seniors in our community to stay.

We
do have, I believe, three subsidized seniors’ housing units, which capture a
certain segment of the population. Of course, there’s still a long wait-list
for that. You pay a certain percentage of your income. There is a large band of
seniors who worked their whole lives and, in retirement, sometimes don’t have
the means to pay the amount of money that rent is costing now.

There
was an initiative a number of years ago. Two senior apartments were built. One
was added on to one of the current facilities, but a brand-new apartment was
built in the subdivision of Millwood. It was a seniors’ apartment - you had to
be a senior to live there. It wasn’t just 30 per cent of your income. It was
closer to market value, but there are still savings. Rent is about $650 or
$700. It’s very popular. Now there’s a huge wait-list for that. I see the
benefit of that. I know in the area you represent, there have been initiatives
over the years, especially in Greenwood and other areas, to try to help seniors
downgrade from their homes into smaller units.

[3:00
p.m.]

You
mentioned the $26 million for seniors’ housing under SHIFT. I assume that would
come from Community Services. I am just wondering if you could break it down.
Have there been detailed commitments of that $26 million? I know it’s not in
your wheelhouse, but I would think you would be engaged in it. Is there a
breakdown? Will we see more potential seniors’ apartments around the province
or initiatives that you have seen in your area of the province? I just want a
little bit of a comment on seniors’ housing. I know we are kind of stretching
outside the boundary, but I think you and your department are very engaged.
Your deputy minister, I think he oversaw that area, at one point, for some
time. I’m just wondering if you had a comment on that.

MR.
GLAVINE: That’s certainly a major area of concern, a major area of need. I
think it raises an issue that we have addressed in SHIFT with $26 million for
seniors’ housing.

Before
I go to that, I just wanted to react a little bit to the previous question. One
of the areas that we’ve been welded to, of course, is that age of 65 for many
programs, probably too many of our programs for way too long. I believe our
generation of baby boomers is defining that. All of a sudden you turn 65, and
retirement looms, or whatever. We are changing that. That whole paradigm shift
is on. The member has asked about the area of WCB, and discussions there will,
hopefully, be part of that future, for sure.

In
terms of the $26 million, housing can give the breakdown of where it went in
2017-18. There was help for more low-income Nova Scotians to make repairs and
support construction of affordable housing for seniors. Part of this, if you
remember, and it may have been there when you were in government, is the social
infrastructure fund from the feds, is part of the cost sharing. Additional rent
supplements - I know we have parcelled off 400 more with $3 million in the
budget for this year. Quality of social housing - there is increased funding to
create and upgrade shelter and transitional housing spaces and a review of the
statement of provincial interest on housing to determine if it adequately
directs municipal planning and zoning to support a range of options in terms of
independent and long care.

The
member’s ears lifted a little bit the other day when we heard that Halifax is
looking at the granny suite after all these years. That’s another supportive
way in which I believe our seniors can have a higher quality of life where they
live close to a son or daughter and get that kind of care.

Housing
for seniors is absolutely front and centre, and the $26 million will make a
difference. This plan, SHIFT, also has other injections over the next three or
four years, if you take a look at the SHIFT document.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: That leads well into an area now where I have a couple of
questions with the remaining time. The SHIFT action plan indicated it is $13
million over three years. I am just wondering how much of that $13 million has
been spent to date. There was an initiative last year, if I’m not wrong. Was
money spent last year, or is it $13 million on a go-forward basis?

MR.
GLAVINE: In the first year, about $3 million of that was spent, has gone
forward. This will be going on in out years as well. We were a little bit late
with community transportation, and now there’s $2.6 million that will go
through community transportation.

Recently,
$700,000 has been announced: $500,000 for Cape Breton and $200,000 in
Bridgewater - more pilots and more assistance to defined transportation systems
that want to expand into rural and small communities to enable seniors who have
no transportation to have access to their community, one of the great pieces of
work that five or six departments were engaged in. Municipal Affairs, Health
and Wellness, Seniors, and Communities, Culture and Heritage have all been
working on the community transportation work. Our deputy minister and a member
from CCH went around the province and spoke with a significant number of
stakeholders to find out what the needs were. First and foremost, CBRM was
ready. They were wanting to expand but didn’t have the money. Bridgewater
wanted to do a pilot. This supports the ongoing operational cost and marketing
as well so that seniors in particular and low-income Nova Scotians know that there
is transportation available to them.

I
believe the more we do with community transportation is a game-changer for our
seniors. We’re now seeing, on a country-wide basis in the U.K., a ministry for
loneliness which tells us that (Interruption) Yes, in the U.K. It’s because
people can’t connect to their community, can’t connect to social opportunities
and service opportunities. This is a long-term commitment to make sure that
seniors are not isolated and that they have access. We’re prepared to do a variety
of pilots - not just your typical bus. Now that there will be one school
advisory council, perhaps use of school buses could become part of community
transportation - shuttles or small vehicles.

Losing
the ability to drive is one of the biggest reasons that people lose their
independence. Having that senior feeling independent and connected to their
community, their friends, and social opportunities is something that we were
very strong on. It came right out of the SHIFT document that there needed to be
stronger transportation for seniors.

We
have some great examples across the province. A person who we all highly
regarded, Clarendon Robichaud, who developed Transport de Clare 20 years ago,
really met the needs along the Acadian shore, a strip of development of
population with connecting communities. Over the years, that transportation
company met the need of seniors.

Now
we’re ready to take some best practices, do more pilots, and extend it. We’re
going to see other opportunities. I’m not sure if the hills of Cape Breton are
ready for driverless vehicles, but who knows? It could be part of the
exploration in the future to deal and support our seniors. I thank the member
for raising that important point.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: I would agree with the comment about losing the ability to drive.
It’s definitely devastating to seniors when they lose that opportunity to keep
their licence. It’s really concerning to many of them, especially as they get
older, and they have an increase in health challenges. It has been one of the
criticisms I have had towards your government, around the amalgamation of the
Health Authority, which I know you’re well versed in as the minister. When you
get especially into rural areas and this transformation of the Health Authority,
I think there’s more opportunity now that residents are required and can move
to other regions of the province. That’s fine for those who have vehicles and
who have family, but for those who don’t, it’s a huge challenge to meet their
health needs.

Is
that in the mix other than just the community transportation for seniors as
they get older and as their health needs increase? Would you foresee some kind
of program in Nova Scotia that would help seniors make it to those
appointments? If ortho is being consolidated to Hants for example, and they
live further down in Greenwood, would you foresee a program in the province
that could potentially help get those seniors to those medical appointments
down the road?

MR.
GLAVINE: Yes, the member raises what I would regard as an excellent point. If
we’re going to keep seniors healthy, they also have to get to their primary
care provider appointments or diagnostic tests. Somebody living in a more
remote area of any county is a distance away.

One
of the companies that I think has a very good model - even by its very name -
is in Kings County, called Point to Point. It’s actually going to go out to
Sheffield Mills and out to Pereaux. It is picking someone up for the trip into
Valley Regional and also connecting them to the shuttle that’s going off to
Halifax for dialysis or any other major appointments that they have. We have
those good models and those best practices that are there. The member is
absolutely correct - taking that best practice now with this investment in
community transportation is absolutely the way of the future.

One
of the stumbling blocks as we looked at this was that . . .

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Oder. Time has elapsed.

We
will go from the NDP caucus to the PC caucus. Ms. Adams.

MS.
BARBARA ADAMS: This is my favourite part of the budget process, talking about
seniors and the coordination across all of the departments. I would like to
start off by asking the minister, have you had any feedback yet from the Group
of IX?

MR.
GLAVINE: From the Group of IX - our deputy minister at the Department of
Seniors is an integral part of their meetings. What I would say more than
anything is that their investigation of needy senior issues or what they want
to raise as their major issue at a given point in time - we believe absolutely
in the strength of that group. We support them with $17,000 of funding to help
them carry out their work. They are representative of major professional
bodies. Also, the Community Links program has a representative.

I found, when I became Minister of Seniors, that this was
one of the voices that I knew was important to the department’s work, to my
work, and to continuing to frame what the needs were. In fact, one of my
disappointments is that the boardroom where they met was practically next door
to my office when I was Minister of Health and Wellness, and I made most of
their meetings. I have made a few recently. We have others planned for the
future this Spring, but we are also hoping that perhaps Seniors and CCH will
co-locate, and I will have much more ready access to their meetings.

[3:15
p.m.]

They
have proven to be a great resource and one that we value. Again, because they
represent so many significant numbers - retired teachers, retired doctors,
retired federal and provincial civil servants, and CARP, for example, is a big
voice there - they are kind of that window on the community.

I
see the Group of IX has evolved into somewhat of a partnership. All together,
they represent 100,000 seniors in our province, and they develop an annual plan
with priorities. What I really like as well is that they meet with a number of
ministers each year to find out what is happening in our departments in
relation to them, but more importantly, to give us feedback. Here is the number
one issue, Minister of Community Services, Minister of Municipal Affairs,
Minister of Health and Wellness, or Minister of Seniors, in particular - here
is the number one issue that we want you to be addressing and backgrounding and
looking at what policy or program is going to help address this particular issue.
The Group of IX is a highly-regarded group, and I value those conversations
that I have had with them.

MS.
ADAMS: I have had the privilege of serving as the health chair on CARP Nova
Scotia for a number of years, and I also served on Community Links - not on the
board but in the falls prevention program for probably nine years. I think I’m
aging myself now.

What
I am wondering is, have they given you written feedback or verbal feedback on
this year’s budget yet? I know they are probably digesting it, like the rest of
us, but I am just wondering if they have had a chance already to give you any
kind of feedback.

MR.
GLAVINE: You can be sure that they are not short of opinions and perspectives
on the budget. Each year, following the budget, they do have a give and take
session for observations and commentary. That hasn’t take place on this year’s
budget, but you can be assured that it will take place. The next meeting will
become an opportunity for that to happen. I will then have that follow-up with
the deputy minister to see what is top of mind for them.

MS.
ADAMS: You mentioned to me that they had, in the past, given you their
priorities. Do you know what the top three might be from the past couple years?

MR.
GLAVINE: I am actually familiar with a couple of those because they make a
point to meet almost monthly with the deputy minister. I sometimes get in for
part of their meetings. Number one is patient-centred health care. Number two
is to monitor the recommendations of SHIFT. SHIFT will have a report card, and
the Group IX will be monitoring and watching that report card.

Financial
and pension security and retirement is one of their issues and rightfully so.
We have a large aging demographic, but we also have people who are poor as
seniors. They live on the OAS and the supplement or a very, very small private
pension. Pension security and longevity - many people perhaps didn’t plan that
we would be extending life as we have.

Facilitating
the participation of seniors in Nova Scotia’s economy is one that our
department engages in. We have had two outstanding targeted senior Silver
Economy Summits to get ideas on how seniors are staying in the workforce for
one thing but, more importantly, taking their entrepreneurial business ideas
and bring them into fruition.

The
fifth area is support for caregivers, and I know that they’ll be very pleased
with the expansion of the caregiver program. I would say right off they have
Caregivers Nova Scotia to come to their meetings and background them on what
developments are emerging with caregivers. I’m not sure if this was a practice
of the past, but since becoming Minister of Seniors, I meet with the chairman
and get face to face with their priorities and what solutions they see to the
priorities that they have brought forward. I want to know if in different
departments, some of their priorities are already being talked about or in
program development. It’s a great two-way street that we have with the Group of
IX in terms of their priorities.

MS.
ADAMS: I, too, think the world of all of them, and I think they have tremendous
information. When I was on CARP, we did a survey to ask them what their primary
health concerns were. There were three things that stood out. The others
weren’t even close to being on the radar for everyone. They are no surprise,
I’m sure. They are specialist wait times - especially orthopaedic specialists -
then access to the surgery once you have seen the specialist, and then access
to a family doctor if you’re one of those without one.

I
know that getting access to more surgeries is important, and I know that we’re
trying to increase the number of orthopaedic surgeries that are going to be
done in this province. Of course, I’m from Dartmouth, so I know what’s going on
at the Dartmouth General Hospital.

One
of the things we talked about during the health care questions over there is
that we look at surgery sometimes as what’s going to fix things, but that is
only step one. When people are in the hospital, and they’re having finally
their surgery, they have probably spent a couple of months, if not several
years, going downhill. There were things that we could have done while they
were going downhill that we didn’t do.

This
morning, I was on CBC Radio on a show called the Current, and the topic was
seniors and falls. My phone has been flooded with phone calls ever since. I
said I did 39 falls prevention talks before I became an MLA in the previous
year. I started every talk off by saying, I watched you all walk in the room,
and I know which of you is going to have a fall this year. Then they would all
pay very close attention to what was coming after that. Of course, the radio
announcer said, give me a few examples, and I did. I explained that the speed
with which somebody walks is a predictor of their fall rate, the length of step
that they take, how wide the base of their feet are, and how slowly they get up
from a chair. Just be forewarned - if you stand up in front of me, I’m going to
be watching you. Suzanne has heard this talk before, so I’ll bet you she’s been
practising her exercises.

Health
professionals like physiotherapists and occupational therapists see falls and
frailty coming months and years ahead of time. When I see somebody who has had
a fall, and you have just picked them up and dusted them off and said, let’s
just forget about it, I know how soon the next one is coming. There are so many
things we could have done while they were waiting for those surgeries or while
they were waiting for those specialist appointments that we are not doing.

The
woman who was asking me if I wanted to do the talk this morning asked, is this
why you ran for politics? I thought about it, and I thought, I know we have to
move towards keeping people in their homes - I understand that - but we aren’t
ready. The people who are expected to take care of seniors are family who are
either not there or not trained or don’t have the equipment, and they certainly
don’t have the knowledge.

When
we look at priorities, we are reactive. You have the fall, you break the hip,
and now we are going to put services in the home. I did mention on the air that
a CCA who goes into the home to help somebody often does too good a job. They
are there to try to make the senior’s life easier. What they do is, they take
over, and now the senior is sitting doing absolutely nothing. Then the physios
come in, and we try to get them to let them do some of the regular tasks - let
them put away the dishes and make them plastic if they need to, let them fold
the laundry, let them do anything that gets them up and out of the chair. But
we don’t do it until after they have had the fall.

We
have a falls clinic that actually has a rule that you can’t get into the clinic
until you have already had two falls. That’s the equivalent, to me, of saying
you can’t go to the dentist until you can prove you have a cavity. We don’t do
that for most things. We do eye checkups from the time kids are little.

Health
professionals are so often called in after something has gone wrong. We don’t
have standardized frailty screening. There are nine levels of frailty, created
by Dr. Rockwood from here, who is a specialist in Alzheimer’s. It predicts who
is going to fall.

For
the Alzheimer’s Society, another occupational therapist and I created a program
that is online and free. It says, if you are at frailty level four, here is the
equipment you need in the home. Here is the advice we give you as a caregiver.
Here’s the way to transfer somebody, if you have an issue. People are creating
those kinds of resources through little grants, and the Alzheimer’s Society
used one of the grants that you gave them. But we’re not using it first, we’re
using it last.

The
question is, has the department sensed from the Group IX and from other
agencies a push towards trying to be looking at seniors? I call them motor
vehicle inspections. The way we look at vision - we don’t wait until you go
blind to look at your eyes. We don’t wait for your teeth to fall out before you
check your teeth. But we wait for somebody to have a fall before we assess
their mobility.

I’ll
add just one thing while it is on my mind. Right now, we have a wonderful
program where if you fall in your home in this province, you call 911, they
will come to your home, they will pick you up, they will leave you, and they
will not charge you for that visit. It’s the best thing that ever happened in
this province as far as seniors went. Then nothing happens. The doctor is not
notified. The kids aren’t told. There is no referral to have someone go out to
the home to see if they maybe tripped over something. The impact of falls, the
cost to the health care system in terms of people admitted to hospital is
astronomical. A fall puts more seniors in the hospital than any other illness,
yet they have that fall and then dead silence.

After
all of that, I am going to ask the minister if there is an opportunity here to
start looking at a simple program - once a year or once very two years - where
every senior gets their balance checked with their doctor or a clinical nurse
practitioner, or every senior is given a half-hour visit with a physio. I do
fall clinics. In 30 minutes, I can tell them what their fall rate is. I can
give them exercises and head them out the door. I’m just going to stop talking
and let the minister take it from there.

[3:30
p.m.]

MR.
GLAVINE: This is almost more of a dialogue perhaps than a question. I certainly
regard the expertise my colleague has in that particular area.

I
would say I certainly hope to do more in the Department of Seniors and the
Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage around health promotion and
disease prevention than I probably could do as Minister of Health and Wellness.
As the Minister of Health and Wellness, you’re the lead of an orchestra of
24,000 people to deliver health care. That is so encompassing. My former
colleague used to describe going to the Minister of Health and Wellness’s
office each day as standing under Niagara Falls, with so many things constantly
coming at you.

This
province - along with Florida, as the deputy minister keeps reminding me - has
the oldest population in North America. There’s another reality about our
population. Almost two years ago, we did a population health study, a
population profile. It is online. In almost all categories, we are the wrong
number one in the country. We are number one in all those deleterious diseases,
chronic conditions: 8 per cent of Cape Breton and Western Nova Scotia have five
or more chronic diseases. As a whole, we are an unhealthy population, which is part
of the falls area.

Turning
this around to a healthy population is the major balancing act that we have to
do with the aging demographic and an unhealthy population. I would recommend
that all of us as MLAs take a look at that study that was done. There are
comparatives to the national picture. That’s why we have a pretty accurate
picture of where we stand in so many different areas.

I
attribute it to a population that has not seen a strong active lifestyle as one
of the mitigations against that decline in agility, the decline in balance, the
decline in mental processing. Those are certainly factors. It’s now becoming
apparent as well to the federal government and Health Canada that we have to
engage in an even stronger program than the old ParticipACTION program. Very
shortly, we’ll be rolling out both a national and provincial initiative called Let’s
Get Moving.

You’re
absolutely right - we are not as preventive and proactive as we need to be. It’s
right that the trained eye, the person with training, can identify falls. We
have a frail population, in my view, way too soon. That does lend itself to
costly orthopaedic work in our province. In fact, part of the reason for having
to expand was not only with orthopaedic hips and knees that wear out but also
the number of falls due to osteoporosis and a frail population.

One
of the things that Nova Scotians told us, in terms of developing the SHIFT
document, was that we had to develop healthier lifestyles right across the
lifespan but in particular for seniors. If seniors are going to age well and
capture some elements of what is often referred to as the golden years, they
have to become much more active. I believe some of that SHIFT document, as it
becomes more embedded in our population - the up and coming generation of not
just doctors but all health professionals is going to become more educated on
prevention and proactivity towards a healthier life.

I’m
a senior - I don’t mind saying that. When I walked into my new doctor’s office,
her first message to me was, I am going to work with you on preventive
medicine. Look, I nearly dropped. It’s not part of their training, not part of
their thinking. It was to deal with disease. This doctor said, you will be
getting this test, this test, and this test, which give me a baseline to
prevent three or four of the most common ailments, diseases, associated with
the very act of getting old.

What
a different perspective and frame of mind. Every time I spoke with doctors, I
put out that challenge. What tip did you give the patient who saw you today
about becoming healthier? In most cases, we were asking the wrong person. We
needed to be talking to a dietitian. We needed to be talking to a nurse
practitioner who was engaged in a plan for better-quality aging. Now we have
life coaches who also embrace better physical well-being.

You’re
talking about a big area that has many tentacles, many dimensions. I believe
it’s important to address falls, no question. Much bigger and more important -
I did get myself into trouble in my first two weeks as Health and Wellness
Minister because I said every Nova Scotian, no matter their socio-economic
position, can do at least small things to be healthier, and that is a truth.
That is a universal truth in my view. We absolutely don’t need a gym pass. This
is why I’m a promoter and a believer of what we have stated in SHIFT, that it
is incumbent upon all Nova Scotians to be participants, partners with our
doctor or health provider, in staying as healthy as long as we can.

God
bless those CCAs, LPNs, and RNs who go into homes and can be that first set of
eyes to take a look at unsafe practices in the home, obstacles in the home that
can lead to falls, and also that analysis of the gait of the senior to change
perhaps some of the practices. A great deal of work has gone on at the Centre
on Aging to actually promote and have steps to assist seniors in reducing the
risk of living at home. I have always said, as much as I promote aging in place
and staying at home as long as possible - I never said it without talking about
how we have to do it safely. We have to do it without risk.

That’s
why we have moved the budget for home care from $300 million to $366 million.
We are on the cusp of being able to look after seniors with a better outcome to
be able to stay in their homes. It’s going to require more professional
training of our CCAs, LPNs, and RNs to make sure that they’re focused in the
right place in terms of especially our frail seniors. That’s a little bit for
SHIFT, the Department of Seniors, some of Health and Wellness, and some of
Communities, Culture and Heritage.

We
have moved to a very, very interesting place, from my perspective, over the
last five years. Most of our reports now are the work of multiple departments.
This is one of those areas that is not the domain of one department or just the
government of the day. It has to be way more far-reaching and embrace a whole
array of partners to develop healthy communities. That’s great symmetry.

We
removed the Department of Seniors out of the Department of Health and Wellness.
I hope it never returns there because I believe that healthy communities for
seniors are absolutely the way that we have to go. We have started some very
interesting, innovative work with our seniors. There’s a great deal more to go.

MS.
ADAMS: I couldn’t agree more. I think I said it last time, and I’m going to say
it again. Your budget isn’t big enough.

MR.
GLAVINE: That’s right. That’s right, yes. I would add to that, if you don’t
mind, just very quickly that this is the one thing that, when you look at
Pharmacare, Housing, and Community Services, there’s a whole lot more for
seniors that’s not with the Seniors Department.

We
want the Seniors Department to specialize and target programs that we can say
are absolutely making a difference. We now have not just communities but -
through the Seniors Safety Programs, which you’re familiar with - age-friendly
communities. They’re embracing and looking at what are practices for the whole
county that we can do better.

In
some ways, as the deputy minister would say, we’re influence peddlers. If we
can influence better outcomes across all levels of government and different
departments, then we can say we’re doing some of our major work. That’s what we
want to see through the SHIFT document over the next five years. There’s a
report card to keep us in check as we’re doing this particular work.

MS.
ADAMS: I probably will be asking this of the Minister of Community Services as
well, but it’s often me or my staff who make recommendations for home
renovations for seniors when the doors aren’t wide enough to get a walker
through into the bathroom. When we’re talking about home adaptations like
ramps, one ramp can be $12,000 to go in depending on how high your steps are. I
know right now that the cut-off for those programs - you have to earn very
little income in order to be able to benefit from those programs. Our senior
population is going to double over the next couple of decades. Would it not
make sense to increase the number of people who are eligible for those grants?
If we can keep you in your home for one more year, that grant would pay for
itself if we kept you out of a long-term care facility, or if you didn’t need a
CCA to help you get in and out of the doors.

[3:45
p.m.]

I’m
specifically thinking about the home renovation grants for those with
disabilities. Most of the people who I know who need them don’t qualify for
them because the cut-off for income is so low. The irony is that we need people
to keep working, but if somebody has to leave work to look after a loved one in
order to qualify for those grants, we’re sort of shooting ourselves in the
foot.

I’m
just wondering if your department is working with the Department of Community
Services to try to look at raising those grant levels so that more people can
stay home. A bathroom renovation is $10,000, and a ramp is somewhere between
$8,000 and $10,000.

MR.
GLAVINE: You raise a wonderfully important point. Those home assists, whether
it’s low tech like a ramp or some other high tech that we can bring into a home
for seniors, are certainly very, very important.

Over
the last four years, since becoming government, we have increased, by a total
of $20 million to $25 million, support for assists, repairs, and ramps into a
home. We’re using the federal low-income threshold at the moment, but there are
a lot of eyes on our province, as a leader in the aging demographic. I believe
as minister that we’re going to have to look at that so that we assist others
who fall outside of that threshold at the moment. We’re giving that direct
help. There’s generally one person in that local Community Services office who
is almost like a specialist and has the knowledge of what’s required to put a
ramp in, what the specs are when a carpenter or a company comes to do this.

Even
when we make a comparison with well-off - until the last few years - Alberta, I
know their minister was extremely proud the day that she announced there was a
loan for a ramp. We’re way ahead of the game. We just need to make sure that we
keep in step with the demographic that is aging. Not everybody has a pension,
or a pension plan. We need to make sure that those lower-income people do get
the help that they need.

We’re
going to have to become much more aware. This is part of moving from an Office
of Seniors to a dedicated department, having a deputy minister and a senior
lead in that department. The work of Faizal and the whole department is
critically important.

The
statistic we have is that $16,117 is that low-income threshold. It did help
about 7,600 Nova Scotian households with improving safety in the home. We’re on
the right track. We know what is being done. We’re helping quite a number of
thousands of seniors. To keep seniors in their home, there’s a lot of dedicated
effort that will be required. We will see more in wheelchairs, and this is why
we have Business ACCESS-Ability, to make sure that anybody in a wheelchair, our
seniors in particular, will be able to access a wide range of services,
community businesses, and all our community halls. That will allow for that to
happen.

The target of 2030 to be a totally accessible province may
seem long-range, but those 12 years will move by very quickly. We set a target
not just to be fully accessible but to be a leader in the country. I know that
we’ll continue to have a Speaker who will put this before us and programs of
our government and future governments to provide greater access for all Nova
Scotians both in their home and in their communities to have great access.

MS.
ADAMS: I can appreciate that you need a long-range target to become fully
accessible. I just did the math, and I’ll be 68 in 2030. It’s going to be right
around the right time that I’m going to need it, so I appreciate that.

I
will say again, though, that those renovations aren’t just for ramps, widening
doorways, bathrooms, and things like that. There are all sorts of other
expenses that go along with increasing frailty. We created a handout for each
level of frailty, and I did the math in terms of dollar amount. If you’re at Frailty
Level 1, 2, and 3, there’s no expense. You get around to Level 4 or 5, and it’s
somewhere between $500 and $1,000. You get down to Frailty Levels 7, 8, and 9,
and we’re in the tens of thousands. That doesn’t even include the CCA, LPN,
private home care, physiotherapist, or occupational therapist. It doesn’t
include any of that. One of the biggest frustrations for me is those who are on
social assistance who can’t even afford a cane, which is $20 to $25.

When
I was in Ontario three decades ago, they had the Assistive Devices Program, and
people got free equipment. I’m just wondering if we have ever looked at having
at least walkers and canes. A cane is $20 to $25. A two-wheel walker is about
$120, and a four-wheel walker is about $280. If people had those devices at the
right time, we could reduce health care costs dramatically.

People
don’t know they need them because they’re not getting tested. It’s like how you
don’t know you need glasses until you go to an eye doctor. You have to keep
going back every couple of years to get re-examined and maybe get new glasses.
We know that people move from a cane to a four-wheeled walker to a two-wheeled
walker to a wheelchair. Even if we determined that they need it, some of them
can’t afford it.

I
know the Red Cross loans it out, but once you’re a senior, you don’t go from
needing a walker down to needing nothing. I’m just wondering if there are any
thoughts of having an assistive devices budget where people could be given the
equipment early on in their frailty rather than waiting until they have a
fracture and drop down several pegs into Frailty Levels 7, 8, and 9.

MR.
GLAVINE: You mentioned Red Cross. For many Nova Scotians, that is an
outstanding program. While I was the Health and Wellness Minister, I had the
opportunity to look at the service they provide. Again, it’s one of excellence.

We’re
just moving into that higher percentage of Nova Scotians who will have some
kind of an assistive technology need. I know it will be one of those areas that
we’ll certainly have to examine as to what more we can do in relation to what
is being done by the wonderful organization that the Red Cross is. I thank the
member for raising that and creating an awareness. That’s exactly why I gave
strong kudos and accolades to the Group of IX today. They have often raised
that when they hear from citizens and some of their retirees. As we know,
disability goes right across the age span. Right now, as we focus on more and
more seniors, it could become one of those areas that we’ll have to look into.

MS.
ADAMS: Probably the last topic is getting information out to seniors. The most
successful way is to go to a seniors’ group. If you hold a public lecture and
invite them to come, they don’t go because they don’t drive at night. If it’s
crappy weather, they’re not going anywhere. I have discovered I can offer the
same lecture publicly, and four people show up, but if I go to a seniors’
group, there will be a captive audience of 60 there. We know that that’s the
way to do it.

I
have been bugging the Community Links group for years asking, why don’t we have
a health channel, especially a seniors’ health channel, since 90 per cent of
health care costs go to the oldest 10 per cent of us? The Arthritis Society
took it upon themselves and got a grant to do an aging well program on Eastlink
Podium TV. They had 10 different specialists come in to talk about various
issues and health for seniors.

It
was only on Eastlink, though. That was the only problem. If you didn’t have
Eastlink, you were out of luck. They were wonderful, and the people who got to
see them could watch them over and over again, because once you have it on your
program, you can watch it any time you want.

I
don’t understand why we have 12 shows on how to make cupcakes and decorate them
and everything else, but we don’t have a health channel. I mentioned it to CARP.
I mention it everywhere. The Arthritis Society were the first ones to take up
the challenge (Interruption) I have been on Doc Talk with Dr. Gillis, so I’m
not going to say anything there.

Every
health professional is an educator. Every time we do a talk, I don’t know why
we’re not taping everything. Some of us do the same thing 100 times. Every time
I give a falls prevention talk, I get asked to do two more. The Arthritis
Society asked me what I wanted to talk about. I said, I want to talk about this
so we can tape it. Then of course, Eastlink has the rights to it, so we
couldn’t put it on TV.

What
I am promoting and asking for your consideration is - seniors get their
information from TV and radio. Again, I was on the radio this morning, and I
get calls from all over the province. They watch TV. Why do we not have a
health channel? At 10 o’clock every morning, it’s diabetes; at 11 o’clock, it’s
Alzheimer’s; and at 12 o’clock it’s something else. You have 28,000 health
experts out there all talking. We get paid to talk - that’s where I learned to
talk. Why don’t we have a health channel? I know they play it in the Health
Authority on the TVs that are there. There is a channel. Why is it not a public
channel? Seniors are not going to leave their home or leave their seniors’
group to go get the information. Attendance at public lectures is not the way
to go.

I’m
just wondering if the minister would consider having a provincial health
channel, if not a national one, to help bring the information that is so
readily available, through all the experts that we already have working for the
Nova Scotia Health Authority. Now that we’re amalgamated, we have that
opportunity. I’ll leave that with you.

MR.
GLAVINE: First of all, how much time is left?

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: About seven minutes.

MR.
GLAVINE: Is that total for the day?

MS.
ADAMS: No, that’s just me.

MR.
GLAVINE: I was just wondering. That’s fine.

Thank
you for raising that issue. We know that seniors are becoming more and more
connected to the digital world. Baby boomers in particular will be well adapted
to getting information in that manner. It’s a great topic for discussion across
government departments to look at ways of bringing medical safety, seniors’
living tips, the risk factors in living at home alone, and so forth - these are
all areas that require thoughtful consideration that require good, solid
information. We know there are best practices. There is tremendous research in
many of the areas that you have spoken about here today. It’s one of those
areas to investigate. You made a good point about how seniors get their
information - radio and TV.

[4:00
p.m.]

When
we actually did the SHIFT document, they went into the basements of churches,
to really get into the community niches to get good reaction and consult with
seniors, looking at ways of getting better information, timely information.
Seniors want a weave of health through many aspects of the kind of information
that they would be receiving. I thank the member for raising that point as we
come to a conclusion of your questioning.

MS.
ADAMS: The last thing that I’ll talk about is, we have fitness facilities for
young people. A couple of things have happened in metro.

They
opened up the Nova Scotia Rehabilitation Centre gym to allow people to go in
and exercise there. I don’t know if everyone is aware of that, but you can pay
a membership and go in there in the evening, and there are volunteers there. It
has wheelchair-accessible equipment. There are parallel bars there. You can use
the physiotherapy gym, which is massive for people who want to go into an
environment that’s not suitable for most seniors. You can’t go into GoodLife
and fit in there. Northwood also opened up a seniors’ exercise room, and it’s
incredibly successful. It’s also subsidized - I think it’s only $25 a month. I
don’t know if there’s anything else like that outside of metro.

If
there isn’t, to my mind - all of the low-income housing that has seniors
buildings, I do free lectures in there. I asked if they had any exercise
equipment in all of those low-income seniors buildings in metro, and I was told
they didn’t because of liability issues. The Berkeley and the Parkland have
exercise rooms with seniors there. They have somehow figured out the liability
issue. I mentioned it to the Minister of Community Services, and she said,
that’s good idea - I should steal it. I said, by all means, take it.

What
I’m hoping we move towards is giving seniors a place to go to exercise that’s
indoors. Once it gets cold - they can’t do uneven surfaces and hills and ramps
and things. There’s an opportunity to promote increased access to a fitness
facility for seniors. We have Nubody’s everywhere. My son is 28, and he’s in
great shape. My mother, who is 88, lives right next door to a GoodLife, and
she’s not going to be caught dead in there.

If
there was a facility that she could go to that was more age appropriate, I
could go there with her. We don’t have that right now except for those two
places. (Interruption)

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Order. The member for Cole Harbour-Eastern Passage has the floor.

MS.
ADAMS: I’m sure there are other locations, perhaps the Canada Games Centre,
that might also offer some of those programs. Even in Eastern Passage, we have
outdoor equipment for seniors. I know they have them around, but once it gets
cold nobody is going there, and I don’t want them walking on slippery grass to
get there.

I’m
just wondering if we are moving in that direction. My aunt is going to Zumba
with her three daughters, but my mother will not go because she says she won’t
fit into the tights. I’m just wondering if we are moving in that direction of
greater indoor recreation for seniors. I would rather prevent the illness
before it happens.

MR.
GLAVINE: That is one of the goals of the SHIFT approach for seniors. We really
want to make sure, at the municipal level, that there are as many opportunities
as communities will allow.

I
know two or three communities in the Valley are fortunate to have aquacize.
That is tremendous for seniors. It is low impact, and it is one that they
absolutely gravitate towards. We need to use all the facilities available. For
example, they are using the Youth Centre in Waterville, where there is an
indoor pool, Acadia University, and 14 Wing Greenwood. These are places in the
Valley that they use.

In
the rural areas, maybe we are a little bit more creative and so forth. We have
seniors’ clubs that would go to a Legion. We have seniors who meet for
low-impact exercise in a church basement or in an activity centre. We are using
a great deal. The Age-Friendly Communities Grants, if we chronicle down through
those, you will see that they are actually given to seniors’ groups because
sometimes it really is advanced by having an instructor who can take them to
that workout safely.

We
are promoting many more sports as lifelong activities. I believe that is
something that we never quite envisioned years ago. One of the ones that I have
enjoyed taking a look at is slow-movement soccer. There is a soccer program for
seniors now, where you just take a couple of steps. It’s not running; it’s
walking.

I
have been aware of the 55+ Games, but I participated myself in the 55+ Games
this year on the South Shore. I was amazed at the number of people who saw this
as another opportunity, a goal that they could work towards, something that
they would participate in year after year.

I
think we are on the cusp of some good things, but you are right. Investment in
facilities has to be part of that advancement in giving people what is now the
buzzword: movement. It is not so much about what you are doing, but by
goodness, I’ll tell you from my own experience - if it is something that you
enjoy, the chances of staying with it are that much greater than what a gym
pass could ever offer.

Getting
seniors out for that walk, as we develop the trails in this province - I forget
the number of kilometres, but we are getting connectivity to more and more of
the Trans-Canada Trail throughout our province. I think those are going to be
areas that our seniors will grow into. They can get on the bike, they can get
on cross-country skis, or they can get out for a walk on a section of the
trail.

We
have some classic trails in our province. The Aspotogan, for example, has
exceptional scenery. The more we develop all of our facilities and have our
seniors doing some activity, we will be better off health-wise and will be
building healthier communities.

MS.
ADAMS: Thank you very much. I appreciate this conversation. I’m going to duck
out to the washroom, but I’m going to concede my time because I’m having a
senior moment. I’m going to pass my time over to the member for
Sackville-Cobequid.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Wilson for the NDP caucus.

HON.
DAVID WILSON: I appreciate the engagement my colleague has on this issue.

I
have a couple of questions. I know we don’t have a lot of time, but I am more
than happy to let my colleagues use some of the time if they have a couple of
questions.

Just
finishing off in the last hour, when I was asking questions, we were talking
about SHIFT and the $26 million for seniors’ housing and acknowledged that that
budget comes through the Department of Community Services. I just want to ask
the minister - I know it has been an area where we as a Party have criticized
the government on their approach to housing issues when pertaining to long-term
care. The minister can go on at length about the benefits of keeping people in
their homes longer and supporting home care and increasing that budget. I agree
100 per cent with that, but there are a number of Nova Scotians who do
eventually need long-term care placement.

I
know about the change in the criteria and that there was a reduction in the
number of people on the list. I completely understand that, but there are well
over 1,000 people still waiting. In the engagement of this department with the
Group of IX and other seniors’ groups, have you heard from them that there is a
need to possibly look at changing the approach that the government has taken
the last four or five years around not creating long-term care beds and looking
at potential? I think the door was finally opened a little bit with recent
comments from the Minister of Health and Wellness and the Premier, but I know the
initiatives and the priority have been home care.

Have
you been hearing that from those seniors groups that would, I think, agree with
the approach of investing in home care? But I think you do have to recognize
that there are some who need to be in long-term care, and they are in our
hospitals now. There are several hundred of them right now and then, of course,
the 1,000 on the list who are waiting for placements.

I’m
just wondering if that door might be open. Are you going to help open that door
a little more, as the minister for the Department of Seniors, knowing that
there is a need? I don’t think anyone in the Legislature would say that we are
not going to need long-term care beds. I just wonder if you have a call on
that, and then I will hand it over to my colleagues.

MR.
GLAVINE: I know this is aligned and integrated with the Minister of Seniors.
Being a former Health and Wellness Minister and as an MLA, we know that there
still remain about 1,000 on the list. I know that, right now, we are second or
third in the country on a per capita basis. We have the aging demographic,
which we are the leader in the country on.

When
we took a look at the needs of seniors as they required greater amounts of
care, we knew that we could never build enough nursing homes based on how
people were arriving in nursing homes. I visited about 75 of our nursing homes
across the province. Pretty well every administrator said, we could help you
out with that 2,563 that you first announced as the number waiting for nursing
home beds. We could help you out if we didn’t have people in the home who
probably could have delayed their entry into the home, but for whatever the
reason - they’re pushed by family, by doctor, or whoever. But I had most of the
administrators say that once there, of course, the commitment to them to
provide care was there.

[4:15
p.m.]

I
think that is a reality that we had to come to grips with and say that we need
people in nursing homes who need that higher level of care on a continuing
basis. We had to respond and address to what every survey said - help us stay
in our home as long as possible.

We
were meeting the desire, and we were also addressing the higher needs that we
will always have. We will end up with a demographic where about 30 per cent of
our population will be that traditional senior, if you wish - over 65 - at one
time. As they age, and longevity being longer - all of those factors and
components, we will have to look at a few of the hot spots in the province
where there may very well be a need for more nursing home beds. The commitment
is to provide a high quality of home care and balance that with the roughly
7,500 beds that we currently have and look to see whether there are a few areas
that do need a higher level of support.

I
think we also recognize as a government that we have some homes that do need
refurbishment. We will start to see, even as early as when the continuing care
refresh comes out, that we will probably be addressing nursing homes, home
care, and keeping couples together in a home. All of these areas, I believe,
need some definitive statements. I would say to the member, you certainly will
see something in the Continuing Care Strategy, which is not too far away.

MR.
DAVID WILSON: Thank you.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: We will now turn it over to the Liberal caucus. Ms. DiCostanzo.

MS.
RAFAH DICOSTANZO: I want to start by apologizing because I know that I am not
supposed to speak, but I got excited because I have been involved a lot with
the Canada Games Centre and the wonderful programs that the Department of
Health and Wellness and the Canada Games Centre are doing for seniors. There
are walks. There are so many things. I just want to compliment both the
Departments of Health and Wellness and Seniors for a lot of the programs,
especially in continuing care.

They
are trying to be proactive in preventative health. It is really the mentality
that is evolving. I see that, and we have been wishing for that for years. I
truly see that in the last three or four years, working in health and
hospitals, all the programs that are available.

The
only issue is, we need people to hear about them and we need to involve them.
As MLAs, we can help with that. As we knock on the doors, we can tell them. In
my riding, I think I have the highest number of seniors just because I have 100
apartment buildings. It has become a place seniors are coming to. If we have
the facilities for active living, it is wonderful.

When
you started about transportation, I was really excited. My mother and my family
live in Oakfield. At age 75, she started to lose her sight because of macular
degeneration, and it really took her freedom. That was the biggest thing.

There
is a program - I wish I knew the whole details, but my sister helps her -
similar to what you have described, a taxi. She has to call a couple of days
before and say, I need to go to church from this time to this time. She is
allowed to cancel up to a certain time, and she pays $3. That kind of a service
has given her such freedom. It was lovely. Once she lost the car, she had that
taxi service for seniors. I’m not sure what the program is called, but I’m
assuming it is similar to what you’re trying to do. I think it would be a
wonderful thing, a really wonderful thing.

Could
you explain your program and how it works? Is it the private sector that’s
driving it, or are you still working that out?

MR.
GLAVINE: Thank you very much for that observation and the information around
the phenomenal facility of the Canada Games Centre. It’s interesting that that
was built for youth and the Canada Games. That was primarily what it was
constructed for, but it’s a legacy project that’s now helping all of our
population. What is interesting is that many of our facilities were primarily
directed for youth physical activity.

As
I said earlier in one of my statements, the baby boom generation have worked to
shape every part of the lifespan they have gone though. In fact, SHIFT uses a
line to ensure that older adults are seen as a priority population for physical
activity and regular exercise. That’s a reshaping and a rethinking, as opposed
to seniors doing everything at a much lower level. Maybe activity was not
promoted in the past. Making our facilities open and having engagement of our
seniors with targeted and directed programs, I think, is a great advance.

In
terms of transportation to get seniors to those locations, we’re going to see
expansion with several million dollars right off for community transpiration.
There will be fixed routes, obviously, to get started. There will be marketing
of where they are.

Rural
communities in particular really need the flexibility of designing routes that
will pick up adults at particular times because there’s different events going
on in their communities. We’re hearing of Uber, so therefore more
individualized, more flexible opportunities are going to be there. Dial-a-Ride
is a program that is available. I know that we have some best practices that do
exist around the province, and we’ll continue to build on those.

What
I do like is the fact that the Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage,
primarily a co-partner with the Department of Seniors, is to roll out that
community transportation. We’re going to see more routes available and smaller
not-for- profit companies that will get involved in that all-important piece to
assist our seniors.

Age-friendly
communities are really the advance planning for the community’s future. We’re
all starting to talk about communities that now have X percentage of their
population - I don’t like that they use the 65-and-over stat. In the Valley for
example, there are five communities now where 25 per cent of their population
are classified as seniors. We’re going to see more and more planning that will
accommodate that senior population.

We’re
providing grants to communities and to organizations to assist with the
development of age-friendly communities, along with transportation. We’re
starting to see that true shift towards appropriate programs and supports to
communities to make sure our seniors get to the wonderful facility that you
have just mentioned, and there are many others of course, across the province.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Jessome.

MR.
BEN JESSOME: Thank you for keeping up the effort here in Estimates for day two.
There has been some good discussion. I would like to say how lucky we are to be
in a democracy, where we have the opportunity to do something like this. As
members, we have a little more engaged role than the general public, but
collectively, it’s important to highlight that we do live in a democracy and
have an opportunity to ask these types of questions.

Before
I ask a question, I did want to put on the record that there’s a gentleman from
my home community of Hammonds Plains-Lucasville, a Haliburton Hills resident,
and some of you may be familiar with John Hamblin. He’s a gentleman who extends
himself to support the silver economy and help seniors who need some assistance
in modernizing their abilities technologically, or perhaps they’re transitioning
their careers or what have you. I just wanted to put it on the record that he’s
a gentleman who does spend a demonstrable amount of time committed - I see the
minister nodding over there. I think he and his colleagues at the table here
may be familiar with Mr. Hamblin’s work. I just wanted to make mention of that
in advance of asking my questions.

I’m
actually going to shift gears a little. I don’t believe that we touched on
this. I just wanted to ask in advance of my question, how much longer do we
have?

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: There’s less than three minutes, so the minister needs one minute.

In
the interest of your devotion to promoting healthy living throughout the
province and encouraging people to play a proactive role in maintaining their
own health - for many that comes in the form of sport. I would just like to ask
you, what has your involvement been as the Minister of Seniors, or what has
your attachment been to the 55+ Games? It may be as a member as well. If it
has, what has your experience been with the 55+ Games?

MR.
GLAVINE: Our department recognizes the value of the 55+ Games, and we have
supported them with financial support from the Department of Seniors.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: One minute.

MR.
GLAVINE: I want to thank everybody for engagement. I see being Minister of
Seniors as the quintessential non-partisan area. We as a community need to make
sure we support our seniors.

MADAM
CHAIRMAN: Shall Resolution E38 stand?

Resolution
E38 stands.

This
pretty well wraps up our meeting today. Did you want to thank your staff?

MR.
GLAVINE: That’s the most important part of this last few seconds . . .

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