I don't live for stats, but sometimes it's the only way to progress a discussion. You say he sucks, I say he's great. Where do you go from there? Oh, you think he really really really sucks? Wow, I think he's really really really really great. And so on. There would be some pretty short discussions here if we all just gave a thumbs up or a thumbs down for a player and didn't bother looking into it any further.

Also, I have no idea why you'd assume I haven't played ball? I didn't play in college, so maybe you got me there.

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I didnt say YOU unless YOU live for stats. Im getting really tired of people taking everything "I" say literally, but there are other posters who have taken personal shots at each other BY NAME and get away with it.

You're kidding right? ATL's crowd sucks. They are half Pistons fans, have been for almost 2 decades.

Tonight, when Joe Johnson had an airball, the "home crowd" jeered him loud enough you could hear it on TV.

They have NO homecourt advantage against us. Maybe an Orlando or Cleveland, but not the Pistons.

The only teams with a toxic home crowd for us are those bums in Cleveland and the nutjobs in Boston.

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Have you seen ATL's crowd in the playoffs last year? It's a completely different animal which is what i was referring to when i said in terms of the PO's. You think that it will be predominately Pistons fans in the PO's as well? Or that the Hawks won't play better in front of a full house? Both big games against the Celtics and Cavs were packed.

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And in terms of Amir, i love the determination that he will already be useless against ATL's frontcourt when he hasn't even played against them. It's good Curry protects us from the chance that he might fail. I remember Rip into the SL was also called a useless shuffling of players that would not help us.

I feel like Amir, Maxiell, and Afflalo are 3 of the hardest working guys on the team. No Darko vibe coming from them as far as I can tell. Why all the hate? They don't complain, all reports say that they practice like crazy, they hustle, they don't front. Tough crowd here.

He also got his starting job back at one point. By definition, does that mean he "won" it back? He's been playing pretty much the same way for 3 years now. That exact effort has resulted in the NBADL and a starting position in the NBA and everything in between with little or no correlation to his results.

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I don't hate Amir. I wish he would succeed. He does bring a lot of energy. Reminds me of a young Dennis Rodman. Rodman brought a unique set of skills to the game. Amir doesn't seem to be able to stay out of foul trouble. I for one wish that he could play 20 straight games of 30 minutes or more. Then I would have a handle on his skills. Hard to look at the numbers (or intangibles) when somebody fouls out all the time.

I remember Rip into the SL was also called a useless shuffling of players that would not help us.

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It hasn't helped us. We haven't won anything. Our longest winning streak this season has still been with Rip out.

All that is happening now, is that Rip, Tay and Sheed are back to playing like they care, instead of moping around because Rip was coming off the bench.

The trick, is to observe McDyess, the most blue collar player on the team. He never stopped playing hard, and he honoured his word to Joe when he came back. He is our Prometheus, not these other dandies.

Of course, why talk about the heroic character and masculine supremacy of Antonio McDyess when we can fawn over the Josh Smiths of the world.

Have you seen ATL's crowd in the playoffs last year? It's a completely different animal which is what i was referring to when i said in terms of the PO's. You think that it will be predominately Pistons fans in the PO's as well? Or that the Hawks won't play better in front of a full house? Both big games against the Celtics and Cavs were packed.

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I wasn't that impressed with their playoff crowds last year either. They were okay, but they were nothing compared to the Warriors crowd in 07 or the Palace crowd circa 2002-2005. Atlanta isn't a great sports town at all. Their PA announcer sucks too.

Besides, whats with all this talk of home crowds? Great crowds don't win you championships... just ask the Jazz and the Kings.

Hard to look at the numbers (or intangibles) when somebody fouls out all the time.

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I really don't see why. Everybody seems to agree that his fouls can be projected out with more minutes, so why not the rest of his stats? Amir's numbers won't go down with more time due to fatigue like some players.

And he's only been allowed to foul out twice this year. It's not because they are yanking him with 5 fouls, as he's only reached that point 4 times. He hasn't had more than 4 fouls in the last 18 games he's appeared in (since January 10th).

Dyess only averages 27.2 minutes per game, which is less than Amir would average if he played every game until he fouled out.

Sheed only averages 33.1 minutes per game, which is about the same as Amir's max threshold.

And the unbelievable part to me is that I can perfectly make my case using all Curry quotes:

The kid has been battling for three years, and now this being his fourth year, trying to get on the court. Throw his stat line out the window. If you saw the intensity in which he plays, the speed and the athletic ability he brings to the starting unit, we’ve just got to work with the rest of the guys so they can pick up the pace a little bit more.

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Calling him a “welcome addition,” coach Michael Curry made official Saturday what he’s long been hinting at — Amir Johnson, as of now, is the Pistons’ starting power forward. “Amir does things without having to have the ball,” Curry said. “He’s able to pick up baskets through his activity, by running the floor and playing off the other four guys. He does all the intangible things, and through that he’s able to create offensive opportunities for himself.”

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He's probably seen enough at this point and is hiding him for the playoffs. Makes a lot of sense really.

I really don't see why. Everybody seems to agree that his fouls can be projected out with more minutes, so why not the rest of his stats? Amir's numbers won't go down with more time due to fatigue like some players.

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The problem is, most of the time, fouls are a negative. Amir still fouls more than others, puts our opponent in the bonus quicker. Also, a lot of his fouls are really dumb sissy fouls. If he was clobbering guys and fouling out in 10 minutes, I could get down with that. At least it would have the residual effect of scaring the beejeezus out of people.

Danny Fortson was a foul machine, but no one wanted any part of him. Same thing with Mahorn.

It hasn't helped us. We haven't won anything. Our longest winning streak this season has still been with Rip out.

All that is happening now, is that Rip, Tay and Sheed are back to playing like they care, instead of moping around because Rip was coming off the bench.

The trick, is to observe McDyess, the most blue collar player on the team. He never stopped playing hard, and he honoured his word to Joe when he came back. He is our Prometheus, not these other dandies.

Of course, why talk about the heroic character and masculine supremacy of Antonio McDyess when we can fawn over the Josh Smiths of the world.

Wake me up when Atlanta does something.

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Are we really going to try to compare that extremely sad win streak to this one? And a little OT, but i was thinking about that win streak, and it's a little ironic; Stuckey was dominating and handling the ball primarily and AI was basically playing Rip. He was coming off screens and generally getting Rip's plays which could partly explain his shooting % during that streak. Its like we've put the real Rip into the SL and run the same plays and now our wins are more convincing and comfortable b/c of Rip's efficiency and because that's his game.

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I disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with effort, but it's mostly subjective so it's hard to argue about it.

Besides, whats with all this talk of home crowds? Great crowds don't win you championships... just ask the Jazz and the Kings.

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I agree, but don't underestimate the effect a loud supportive crowd can have on a young team. Last year during the PO's against BOS, the main ATL players made several references to the crowd and how it helps them win, gain confidence, etc.

Are we really going to try to compare that extremely sad win streak to this one?

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Based on your posts on most of the games in this win streak, you would think this was the pathetic one.

A win is a win. At the end of the year, what counts is if you won, not by how much, or against whom. Style points are for second place.

You can go back and look at my posts and people in chat probably remember, I was calling these guys out of a crap effort while Rip was coming off the bench. AI goes down, lo and behold, everyone is playing just that little bit harder. With AI, no movement, without AI, suddenly Tay is in the post, Tay has stopped pump faking. Sheed has played with a completely different demeanour. While Rip was on the bench, they would show sideline shots of Sheed's face frozen with anger on the bench. We all saw it.

Now according to the scuttlebutt around the league, people admit, the Pistons don't dislike AI, they just don't like playing with him. Obviously, based on the Cleveland, Laker and San Antonio games, they can play WITH HIM, they just don't like it.

And that has been the story of the last 3 years since LB left. These guys have no one to blame, not Joe, not Mo Evans, not Darko and not Flip Saunders, for the fact that the inmates have run the asylum, and when the going gets rough, they elect to go fishing.

Trading CB was the start of Joe breaking that sort of cartel up. He'll take a wrecking ball to established orders in the offseason. When Tay and Rip are alone, they'll be forced to find new friendships, and reach out to their teammates.

Trading CB was the start of Joe breaking that sort of cartel up. He'll take a wrecking ball to established orders in the offseason. When Tay and Rip are alone, they'll be forced to find new friendships, and reach out to their teammates.

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Their new intro this year features a wrecking ball instead of the sledgehammer. I always wondered if there is sublte message there about the old core.

One of the Pistons great all-time management moves was when they offered a boatload of money to Koncak and forced the Hawks to match it, as it turned out to be one of the worst contracts for a franchise in NBA history.