(Original post by im so academic)Who the **** cares? The quicker America destroys the taliban and turns it from an Muslim republic into a democratic, "American" state, where the people speaks English and doesn't believe in stupid ideologies, the better for everyone.

Thousands dead. Billions spent. Erm, I can't see why anyone with an ounce of morality wouldn't be able not to care?

The mere fact that you seem to ignore, is that a movement itself- be it a Muslim republic or a democracy- isn't a measure of a state's success rather it is intellectual conviction in a common set of values amongst the citizens of a state that determine that. Given the way democracy is currently being heralded in Afghanistan, just goes to show the firepower of the West, can't do anything significant simply because the interpretation of a given culture rests with the people that adhere to it not outside observers. I think they know this already, so the question is, why are we actually there?

(Original post by harmony_01)
Thousands dead. Billions spent. Erm, I can't see why anyone with an ounce of morality wouldn't be able not to care?

The mere fact that you seem to ignore, is that a movement itself- be it a Muslim republic or a democracy- isn't a measure of a state's success rather it is intellectual conviction in a common set of values amongst the citizens of a state that determine that. Given the way democracy is currently being heralded in Afghanistan, just goes to show the firepower of the West, can't do anything significant simply because the interpretation of a given culture rests with the people that adhere to it not outside observers. I think they know this already, so the question is, why are we actually there?

Dont see the reason for your whinging tbh - if muslim countires were smarter and more advanced, they would be doing the same thing as america wouldnt they. Dont they already do the same thing controlling satellites of their own - Saudi has Bahrain and till US invaded, Iraq. Iran has Syria and lebanon. Hello? hypocrite alert

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Dont see the reason for your whinging tbh - if muslim countires were smarter and more advanced, they would be doing the same thing as america wouldnt they. Dont they already do the same thing controlling satellites of their own - Saudi has Bahrain and till US invaded, Iraq. Iran has Syria and lebanon. Hello? hypocrite alert

If you don't like me questioning the motives of this war, then that's your problem. This thread is solely about the USA.

The UN Charter is a treaty ratified by the United States and thus part of US law. Under the charter, a country can use armed force against another country only in self-defense or when the Security Council approves. Neither of those conditions was met before the United States invaded Afghanistan. The Taliban did not attack us on 9/11. Nineteen men – 15 from Saudi Arabia – did, and there was no imminent threat that Afghanistan would attack the US or another UN member country. The council did not authorize the United States or any other country to use military force against Afghanistan. The US war in Afghanistan is illegal.

Marjorie Cohn, professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, president of the National Lawyers Guild

From you're comment I can safely assumed you're not particularly familiar with this sort of stuff. I would also like to point out afghanistan is not a war but an occupation; both have different definitions.

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Dont see the reason for your whinging tbh - if muslim countires were smarter and more advanced, they would be doing the same thing as america wouldnt they. Dont they already do the same thing controlling satellites of their own - Saudi has Bahrain and till US invaded, Iraq. Iran has Syria and lebanon. Hello? hypocrite alert

I'll take it you don't know much about the political world. A good example of very advance nation not going to war would be Switzerland, Japan, China, India. I can go on - but to be honest I assume no amount of information will persuade you that I'm right. We can also look back in history when Muslim nations were incredibly advanced such as the Mughal empire or the Ottoman Empire. So you're argument is invalid. I'm unsure why you assume certain countries, cultures and beliefs are superior to others but I guess some people just aren't very rational or logical.

Well this conversation isn't in my interest as I've been stuck listening to you waste my time before. So I'll leave it there.

And that's not a complete list by any means!
Clearly, the leaders of all these countries are idiot morons liars, and a bunch of TSR users can see through their great deception and know more about what should be done with Afghanistan.

(Original post by Vikitora)
Well, you see: that's the point aarnob, I mean.. the point is that they are not! Which is why the whole mission of "westernisation" is a load of useless codswallop and was a failure in the first place.

Well what about the Afghan people who don't want the Taliban dominating their lives and think the country is heading in the right direction thanks to NATO's efforts?http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_60536.htm
I know it's a **** survey, and was the first one that came up on google, but in my experience, many normal Afghans are very grateful for the work we do out there - thousands of our troops have been badly mutilated trying to help THEIR country! Literally fighting to protect a democracy against a group of armed extremists.

When the US, Nato, and loads of countries originally went in to Afghanistan, support here, amongst the British people was high?

We can't just pull out and go back in on a whim depending on how popular the war is on a particular day, we have comittments to train the Afghan forces, as best as possible, so that they don't end up literally swinging from the gate posts.

(Original post by RadiantA)
I'll take it you don't know much about the political world. A good example of very advance nation not going to war would be Switzerland, Japan, China, India. I can go on - but to be honest I assume no amount of information will persuade you that I'm right. We can also look back in history when Muslim nations were incredibly advanced such as the Mughal empire or the Ottoman Empire. So you're argument is invalid. I'm unsure why you assume certain countries, cultures and beliefs are superior to others but I guess some people just aren't very rational or logical.

Well this conversation isn't in my interest as I've been stuck listening to you waste my time before. So I'll leave it there.

And what did the Mughals and Ottomans do? Oh yes, they invaded other peoples countries. I would thank you for proving my point but i dont think you would understand the point that has been made.

(Original post by harmony_01)
Thousands dead. Billions spent. Erm, I can't see why anyone with an ounce of morality wouldn't be able not to care?

The mere fact that you seem to ignore, is that a movement itself- be it a Muslim republic or a democracy- isn't a measure of a state's success rather it is intellectual conviction in a common set of values amongst the citizens of a state that determine that. Given the way democracy is currently being heralded in Afghanistan, just goes to show the firepower of the West, can't do anything significant simply because the interpretation of a given culture rests with the people that adhere to it not outside observers. I think they know this already, so the question is, why are we actually there?

It would be far cheaper to build a bomb and just bomb the whole country. Less deaths, less money being spent further.

It's very hard to pull yourself out of somewhere when you're knee deep in ****, probably best to avoid such situations in the first place by not interfering where your not wanted. Would prevent a lot of terrorism at home too, might dent a few already rich people's profits though.

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
And what did the Mughals and Ottomans do? Oh yes, they invaded other peoples countries. I would thank you for proving my point but i dont think you would understand the point that has been made.

I'll take it you don't appreciate the difference between the different civilisations. But I'm not going to bother educating you. You're a waste of my time.

(Original post by MaceyThe)
Yes, because it's just American troops in Afghan:

And that's not a complete list by any means!
Clearly, the leaders of all these countries are idiot morons liars, and a bunch of TSR users can see through their great deception and know more about what should be done with Afghanistan.

Well what about the Afghan people who don't want the Taliban dominating their lives and think the country is heading in the right direction thanks to NATO's efforts?http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_60536.htm
I know it's a **** survey, and was the first one that came up on google, but in my experience, many normal Afghans are very grateful for the work we do out there - thousands of our troops have been badly mutilated trying to help THEIR country! Literally fighting to protect a democracy against a group of armed extremists.

When the US, Nato, and loads of countries originally went in to Afghanistan, support here, amongst the British people was high?

We can't just pull out and go back in on a whim depending on how popular the war is on a particular day, we have comittments to train the Afghan forces, as best as possible, so that they don't end up literally swinging from the gate posts.

You source NATO. Isn't that just a face for .www.support-the-war.com? Hardly credible. An 11 year war, tells everyone sane on this planet different...

(Original post by im so academic)
It would be far cheaper to build a bomb and just bomb the whole country. Less deaths, less money being spent further.

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
I dont have a problem with you questioning anything. Im just pointing out you have hypocritical stances.

(Original post by RadiantA)
I'll take it you don't appreciate the difference between the different civilisations. But I'm not going to bother educating you. You're a waste of my time.

regardless of differences, they both followed a policy of invading other peoples countries, more so than the US do today, just in the name of islam instead of democracy. Thats was your gripe earlier wasnt it?

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
regardless of differences, they both followed a policy of invading other peoples countries, more so than the US do today, just in the name of islam instead of democracy. Thats was your gripe earlier wasnt it?

They atrocities they committed were nowhere on the same level as those of America's. That's my point.

Also what about all the other countries I have stated? e.g Switzerland, Japan, China - I do believe all these nations are pretty advanced. None are doing the same sort of stuff america is. No other country has used nukes before unlike America.

*cough* 1,200,000 Iraq civilian deaths as a result of the war
Tuskegee syphilis experiment
Nagasaki
Hiroshima
No Gun Ri Massacre
My Lai Massacre (There are 320 alleged US War crimes during the Vietnam war - excluding Lai Massacre)
Agent Orange
500 civilian deaths as a result of the NATO bombing campaign in Yugoslavia
Project 4.1
Project MKULTRA
Unit 731 - might be Japanese but the Americans granted the commander immunity so he never really faced any jail time.
The Phoenix Program
During WW2 United States military personnel mutilated dead Japanese service personnel.
Abu Ghraib
Drones strikes in Pakistan
Guantanamo Bay

Has any other country broken international law like this before?
You're a bit thick aren't you?

(Original post by RadiantA)
They atrocities they committed were nowhere on the same level as those of America's. That's my point. .

That is debateable, and probably untrue given hundreds of thousands were said to killed in afganistan alone (that refused to be conquered and converted to islam) Probably just as many were killed in central europe, north africa and/or taken into slavery by the Ottomans. so there is no moral high ground on this topic. At least the americans have the excuse of hunting islamists that organised the flying of passenger planes into civilian buildings.

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
That is debateable, and probably untrue given hundreds of thousands were said to killed in afganistan alone (that refused to be conquered and converted to islam) Probably just as many were killed in central europe, north africa and/or taken into slavery by the Ottomans. so there is no moral high ground on this topic. At least the americans have the excuse of hunting islamists that organised the flying of passenger planes into civilian buildings.

Japan never invaded anyone Go back 60 years.
China? youre having a laugh!

Switzerland possibly, they are not on the level of the USA in any field.

Are you just stupid - look at all the atrocities I'm talking about. I'm talking about violation of international law. Japan had Unit 731, but then look at the number of American international atrocities compared to an other civilisations. You're not very fast on the up take. I'm getting tired of explaining things to you.

Switzerland human development index is far greater than the U.S's - so you're wrong again.

Also you have no evidence for you're claims of 100,000s. Could you give me some real statistics - it must be nice making up lovely numbers to fit you argument.

Also there has never been any direct link or evidence relating 9/11 with the Taliban.