DmC Devil May Cry demo test: what’s in a look?

DmC: Devil May Cry has received its first public demo from Capcom and Ninja Theory. VG247′s Dave Cook goes hands on to discuss why we shouldn’t be getting hung up on looks.

They knew that they had a good game in the making, they just couldn’t get it into your hands to prove it. But thanks to the demo that launched on Xbox 360 today, everyone has a chance to try it for themselves and make a more educated evaluation of the game’s quality.

It’s a sad day when a developer is savaged by the internet populace for how a game character looks. DmC: Devil May Cry is being treated as a reboot after all, suggesting that even Capcom felt that Dante and his world of demons, smack-talk and blistering combos was in need of change.

That change comes courtesy of Ninja Theory, and when the studio revealed its first trailer with a younger, scrawnier and raven-haired Dante in chains, the internet went bat-shit crazy.

Fans volleyed off death threats towards the studio and its publisher, vowed to boycott the game and more – all of this before a single second of actual gameplay was shown. Can such premature evaluations be justified without actually sitting down to play the ruddy thing?

I’m not so sure that they can, but then again I’m a ‘benefit of the doubt’ kind of guy. I’m happy for developers to surprise me, and even if ‘new’ Dante’s appearance caught me off guard a little too, I’m always excited to see what happens when a new studio takes over an existing IP.

I’ve interviewed Capcom twice regarding DmC: Devil May Cry – check out my first chat with them here – and it’s sad to see how down the developers were with the reaction to Dante’s appearance.

It’s sad because they knew that they had a good game in the making, they just couldn’t get it into your hands to prove it. But thanks to the demo that launched on Xbox 360 today, everyone has a chance to try it for themselves and make a more educated evaluation of the game’s quality.

Some may still hate it, and that’s fine, because at least then they will have actually tried the game and based their conclusion on something tangible – instead of the colour of someone’s hair, or the way they dress.

The hack ‘n slash is a big favourite of mine, and Bayonetta is confidently one of my most-enjoyed games of the generation, so I was keen to try the demo for myself and see how Ninja Theory’s effort stacked up.

Dante duo

Split into two missions, the first is called ‘Under Watch’, and this is the same mission Capcom has been showcasing at game expos recently. It’s a tutorial of sorts, giving you a broad idea of the many tools and tricks Dante can use to decimate his foes and get around the environment.

It opens with a cut-scene that lays out the state of the demon world, which is being ruled by crippling propaganda, drug-laden soft drinks, surveillance cameras on every street, and a brutal financial divide.

Shortly after the demo begins Dante is dragged into Limbo, a parallel dimension that exists alongside reality. It’s here you must fight your first enemies, and it’s surprising how quickly the old Devil May Cry mindset comes back into play.

One button unleashes sword attacks, another performs launchers, and a third lets rip with Dante’s pistols Ebony and Ivory. Just like the original games it’s possible to keep your combo chain going between enemies by using firearms as you close distance.

You can also get in close by using Dante’s grapple hook device. You can use Angel Lift to pull Dante closer to enemies and to zip around the environment, or you can use Demon Pull to drag enemies towards you, as well as pulling about parts of the scenery.

It’s a great combo chaining mechanic, and it sees Dante flitting around the environment at high speed while stringing together combos. It feels like classic Devil May Cry as you start to toy around with the possibilities of the combo tree.

I found myself battering demons with a flurry of sword swipes, hitting a juggler, then continuing the assaultin mid-air, sending them flying. I’d then use Demon Pull to pull them back to me before slamming them down to the ground. It’s immensely satisfying, but the possibilities don’t end there.

Holding left trigger and hitting either attack or juggle unleashes the Osiris, a long scythe that can be used to execute fast, light swipes, as well as hooking enemies in close and spinning it around like a lethal pin-wheel. It’s great for crowd control.

Do the same while holding right trigger and Dante will use the Arbiter, a short, but devastating axe that will cause shielded enemies to break their stance, leaving them open to rapid follow-up strikes.

Together this whole tool set gives rise to a wealth of opportunity that fans of the series will surely enjoy at a mechanical level – complaints about the art direction or ‘new’ Dante aside. There are plenty of other weapons on offer that we haven’t seen yet, so the possibilities will only grow from here.

In terms of handling this is a fast paced entry that has more in common with Devil May Cry 3, given that players can switch between a large weapon set on the fly. Thankfully in keeping in line with previous games in the series, there is also no block button meaning that dodges and counters are your only real defence.

There is more scope for platforming here, as Dante runs around the shifting city as it tries to kill him. You’ll jump over bottomless chasms, leap over cracked streets and zipline around using Angel Lift. it works fine, but it’s not quote matching Uncharted levels of finesse.

Then again, that kind of platforming wouldn’t have a place in a Devil May Cry game, so it’s probably for the best. But one thing a good DmC game does need is bosses, and this is the focus of the demo’s second level ‘Secret Ingredient’.

It sees Dante battling a giant grub in a lava-filled cavern. It’s also got a foul mouth, spewing obscenities at Dante as the pair troll each other during a cut-scene. The banter is cracking and gives rise to a few chuckles.

Again, some naysayers may sit there straining as they try to avoid laughing, but this is some funny stuff, even if it is a little puerile. Previous Devil May Cry dialogue often verged on the embarrassingly silly in an attempt to be cool, and Ninja Theory’s script is certainly a degree smarter, but not by much.

The boss battle is simple enough: hit its hands and dodge its bile and punch attacks while trying to hit the glowing weak spot on its head. This is a basic battle, but it could be an early boss for all we know.

Once it’s hurt, Dante will drop kick it into the middle of the room as it dangles by two tubes. You then have to use Angel Lift to zip around to higher ground and pull the pipes apart. It’s certainly not as inventive as anything Bayonetta provides, but it’s enjoyable and cinematic enough.

Visually this is an imaginative effort, but you can tell it has been worked on for a while. It’s certainly no slouch however, and only the most technically conscious of gamers will cry foul at the game’s lack of 60 FPS mode. It looks slick enough.

My main concerns – as acceptable as the demo may be – are that Dante’s combo-set could hit a wall too early if most of the gear is doled out at the start. I’m also concerned that the game will run out of new things to do, and resort to pitting you in just another area with more demons to fight.

The demo doesn’t suggest anything about my fears, and like many of you with reservations I’ll need to wait until the final game comes out to see if they’re justified concerns, but for now I’m fairly confident that Ninja Theory has delivered the goods on this one.

We’ll know more when the game launches on January 15th, but for now, check out the demo and let us know what you think below.

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82 Comments

Absolutely loved the demo! Classim DmC gameplay remains and my worries are ALL but gone. my only complain would be the level design, huge levels which seem rather empty…Other than that, I will preorder this now, no doubt.

Grr. Can’t wait to finally play this. Won’t have the chance to play it till Thursday.

I’ll hold my judgment until then.

btw. Dave, does the demo feature the ‘Fuck you’ scene? Because if my encounters on Youtube with so called DMC Fans taught me anything, it’s that most people don’t get how ironic that scene was supposed to be.

The gameplay is there, I agree, even as a nay-sayer, I think I will enjoy the game a lot and will obviously love the experience.

But the humor and the character are gone. Putting fuck and shit into every dialog doesn’t make the script smarter or funnier. If you meant the story is smarter, then yeah, there are some themes, cliched and overused, but there are some. So it would count for smarter.
Dialogs are dreadfully unfunny and puerile, though.

In other words, this part of you preview is extremely unhelpful:
“Again, naysayers will likely sit there straining as they try to avoid laughing, but this is some seriously sharp stuff”

As a fan of the humor in previous parts of DMC series, I have to say this one lost the charm completely.

I think the only time a DMC game made me laugh is the first scene in DMC1 where Trish comes crashing through his front door and Dante was completely unimpressed; “Wohooo! Slow down babe. Nature calls? It’s in the back.” It was funny how ordinary the situation seemed to him.

Oh no wait, there was also the famous LIIIIIIGHT! Scene. That also made me laugh for all the wrong reasons.

I played DMC4 after playing the demo and it was crazy how much better DMC 4 looks and plays compared to the new DMC.
How can ninja theory make a game that looks worse and runs at a lower frame rate than a game that came out 4 years ago.

I like how at first, Devil May Cry was all about Dante. And then they changed him and that turned this game into shit.

Then people realised it’s not that big of a deal. Then people complained that the gameplay was slow and horrible and that turned this game into shit.

Then people played it and realised it wasn’t so. Then people complain the script isn’t great and THAT turned this game into shit.

Really? Are you serious? Devil May Cry 1 is widely considered to be the best one and that game has among the most stupid, inane dialogue i have ever heard. If there is one thing DMC is not about, it’s the freaking dialogue and story. I have no doubt in my mind that Ninja Theory will outperform DMC 1-4 story-wise. If there is one thing they proved with Heavenly Sword and Enslaved, it’s that they know how to write great stories.

If you made your mind up about hating a game before you ever laid a hand on it, don’t keep searching for reasons to make it seem like you have a valid argument there. If you know you don’t like the game because you actually tried it, thats a whole different sotry. But this is just silly.

“massively overblown sense of entitlement” is another 21st century disease.

Seems gamers are particularly vulnerable to these conditions and I for one don’t think the government are doing enough to help these poor souls…will someone please think of the children (and manchilds).

@18 I have played it and I own it dude. I just feel the DmC 4 environments were bland as all hell compared to the new ones. The way the new city shifts and moves is neat, and it has more colour and life.

Sorry we don’t see eye to eye on this one, but hey, we all have our opinions

@12 I’m not sure what Devil May Cry fanbase you’ve been talking to, but it’s consistently accepted amongst most fans that Devil May Cry 3 is the strongest highlight of the series.

Personally speaking, I recently picked up the HD Collection, and realised a few things about the games from a non-biased perspective, Namely, the first game has ridiculously limited and repetitive combat, and some utterly horrendous camera angles. It’s still better than 2 of course, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the variety and depth of the third game.

—

My thoughts on the gameplay…

It plays differently that the previous games. This is a very different control system than the older games, guns and main attack button notwithstanding. If you want something that feels exactly like the previous games, you’ll probably want to give this a pass.

It definitely plays smooth. We can go on about the 60 vs 30 FPS debate until we’re blue in the face, but at the end of the day, the combat is snappy, fluid, and dramatic. It isn’t a patch on Bayonetta (then again, what is?), but it’s no slouch either. The weapons have very specific uses that need to be applied judiciously on the fly to take out the different types of enemies, or you’ll be beaten down pretty damn fast. Especially on the higher difficulties. Comboing will take a lot of initial practise to get good at.

I’m unsure about the platforming. I feel like it could break the flow of the game way too much. It does seem like they’ve shortened some platforming segments from previous previews that we’ve seen though, which is a sensible decision. They’re fun in small doses, but I get the feeling they’re something thatdefinition credibly tedious in excess.

One other complaint I feels like they are way too many buttons necessary to play. A separate button for launchers? Really? I simply don’t understand why they needed to do that.

I’m perfectly okay with the look of the game, but I won’t deny that is something of a bias for me. I grew up surrounded by the punk stylings and musical influences prevalent throughout the game, so it’s honestly something of an aesthetic dream come true for me. I love it to pieces, and I’ve wanted something that presented itself in this style for years.

The story has a lot of potential, but it also have plenty of potential to be a completely ham-fisted, tacky mess. It’s hard to judge that one until the full game is released, but the demo has impressed me enough that I’m going to be pre-ordering it and picking it up on day one.

@20 great summary, I think few people would disagree with your rationale there, even if they might disagree with the points therein.

I’m well behind you in saying that DmC 3 is the best one. The first game’s combat is limited and yeah Bayonetta – personally is the pinnacle of this genre – I firmly believe that no hack n’ slash can match it, even if DmC 3 comes closest.

The bit about each weapon have a very precise use is spot on too. I think NT has been clever in that department, but I do worry that the same enemy types will cycle too often.

All in all it’s a great effort so far, and hope the full game throws more pleasant surprises our way.

#12 Dialogue/story are far from a deal-breaker, certainly. But I don’t like where they’ve gone with it. It was all part of a DMC package, to me, and they went a different way. If you didn’t care for it fine, but I do care. It doesn’t mean the game will be terrible, because it looks and feels to be rather great. But let’s not act like this is not an issue and shouldn’t be an issue to anyone.

(Or am I missing some larger discussion where people are really saying the game will be terrible because story/dialogue?)

thanks for the article. really liking this demo impressions. for a game like DmC, where gameplay is king, it makes sense to talk about the changes. i am downloading now. i love DmC……BUT it´s a franchise well known for having some of the most legendary über cry baby fans.
i for one absoluteley liked what i´ve seen of the game this far, this demo impressions sound great too, cannot wait to check it out but i am pretty sure already that i will hit the preorder button for this in the next few days.

I’ve always liked the DMC series but am not an absolutely huge fan (for the record!)

Ever since I saw the new art direction this had taken, I was disappointed.

After trying the demo, I can honestly say its much worse than I could have ever imagined.

This game and the new Dante completly lack charm and style.

It’s the most boardroom style example of ‘cool’ I think I’ve ever seen. It would actually make more sense if you we’re playing as Skrillex. Who knows, maybe he’ll be a DLC?

The combat is pretty much how I remember DMC, so that’s not too bad.

For a reboot though, it completly misses its chance to bring the gameplay upto date. This genre is really starting to show its age now. What was amazing on the PS2 now looks seriously outdated.

I think a good example of bringing this gameplay slightly upto date is Prototype 2. Not the best game ever, but least it let you explore abit while engaging in combat DMC style. You may argue that they are different styles of game: sandbox / beat em up, but they share very similar combat.

Going from arena to arena just fighting a few enemies then watching a cut scene really doesn’t work anymore.

All the cool looking stuff is scripted and the huge levels lack ANY interaction atall.

The platforming elements are woeful, why give the player intricate jumps to do when Dante moves like he’s got bricks in his pockets while jumping?! He’s nimble as fuck in combat then suddenly a moose when trying to make a jump? Come on!!!??

The new Dante must also rank as one of the dooshiest annoying Charecters in gaming at the moment. Maybe they should have made him a bit older. He just comes across as a hipster twat with mild twilight undertones! Awful!

This was there chance to do something a bit different in my eyes, especially as a re-boot is supposed to be courting a new audience a long with older fans, this demo proves they have completly missed the mark.

Style and marketing cool over quality. At least old Dante was camp as hell, and it was fun!

The biggest thing it has made me realise though is how out of date this genre has become. QuickTime events and bad platforming interspersed with ‘cool’ combat and dub step do not a good game make IMO…

i played it now. i really enjoyed it. it was cheesy!!! i didn´t feel like it tried to take itself too serious. i had that feeling playing halo 4 (and still have issues with that, though i truly like that game too now).
the boss battle was great. what an ugly boss. it has a very old school vibe to it AND I LOVE THAT.
the gameplay is rock solid if you ask me. maybe i am just too old. i don´t give a shit about the hipsters. to me the look and sounds and vibes of the game doesn´t feel try hard cool. it´s trashy….it all feels very cheesy and stupid (but in a good way) to me. maybe they really do try hard to be cool. but if so i don´t get it. good for me i guess.
the combination of that techno minimal dub whatever sound with that sick boss screams and dantes stupid tough guy teenager egomaniac bs talking is just great comedy if you ask me. cheesy as can get.
liked the metal tunes as well. had a smile on my face the whole playthrough and the disgusting boss really made me laugh. good sign.

EDIT: also really liked the parts they showed in the trailer after the actual demo. looks like an interesting mix of levels.

I gave it a shot. Did not like it. For one, the graphics look more like Enslaved than anything. I agree that it’s not as smooth or as detailed looking as Devil May Cry 4 was. Yes, the environments have more going on, but what’s there is really meh.

The gameplay is changed for the worse. Two dodges? A launcher button? And two grab moves? What is the point? Really feel like the gameplay was a huge case of dropping the ball. It feels like a game trying really hard to emulate Devil May Cry-style gameplay, but failing. If this was a fighting game, it’d be World Heroes, trying really hard to be Street Fighter II.

And the dialogue, especially during the boss battle, Jesus… It’s like they figured as long as they had the boss (who was nicely designed, though) saying vile things, they didn’t have to write anything else.

I will not be buying or even renting this. After playing the demo, I hope now, more than ever, that this game underperforms for Capcom.

As someone who has run things, in a both a small business and a band (which is really another small business, just a fun one), I believe that if you don’t deliver, you don’t get to stay. I don’t feel this game delivered, so if people lose their jobs over it, then that’s what happens.

@41 even if they’re just doing their job as told? I’m not sure dude. I just feel that’s a tad harsh when many people are liking the game. I agree that weak companies die for a good reason, but this seems like a personal thing. I could be wrong but again, we all have our opinions and such.

“Many” people are not liking the game. I’d say some people and the majority of journalists, for whatever reason. Maybe because it’s easier to get through that the older ones. Looking at several sites, I definitely see more negative opinions than positive ones. And I count on one hand, the amount of people I’ve seen say that the gameplay changed their mind for the better.

My opinion of it this: if this was a new IP, I’d be a lot more lenient. I’d still consider it a weaker DMC-rip off, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Lords of Shadow rips off God of War’s gameplay style, but it does it in a fun way and mixes in enough new elements to make it one of my favorite games of the year it came out.

If this was a new IP, I’d say it was a decent try and maybe they can one day make a better sequel.

But this is an established IP, which means it has a pedigree to honor. This game does not do that. Yes, the design is bad. Yes, the dialogue is awful. BUT the most important part is the gameplay, because that’s what the old school DMC series was all about, and this dumbs down that gameplay to an unacceptable level. If this had played as well as DMC3, I’d be the first to eat my words.

I’ve certainly gone into movies expecting to hate them and been blown away by how good they were. There were definitely games where I saw trailers and thought, “That looks lame,” and then played the demo and then found myself pre-ordering it that day.

What they have done is not only not reach the bar set by previous titles, but to fall far far below it. That should have repercussions.

@43: So far i’ve only read positive previews about the game. Youtube is usually not a good source for opinions. Especially if the people complaining never played it. It’s funny but whenever i see a DmC Video the hateful comments are made by the same people, checking out their comment history and you discover that they only write in DmC Videos.

Desperate, pathetic.

And quite honestly, you’re opinion just sucks.

I have little to no respect for people who cheer for other peoples failure. You disgust me.

So Middle-Aged Men don’t understand what cool is? Who do you think makes most of the videogames you call ‘cool’?

Did you really want to see DMC go down the same route they’ve taken Resident Evil? I bet you don’t. Pissing on the legacy of the character? What legacy? What character? Are you that shallow that you think Dante actually had a character?

But Devil May Cry was never cool, was the thing. I never looked at Dante and thought, hey, that’s a guy I’d like to hang with. He was somewhat goofy and cheesy and that’s what worked. The thing is, this isn’t an attempt at making a goofy character. They’re actually trying to come up with someone who they think is “cool,” and he’s far far from it. He comes off as a complete douchebag and yet, the developers of this title have gone on and on about how they’re in touch with today’s youth and yet all they’ve done is add as much cursing as possible because that’s what the kids are into. It reeks of an uncle trying really really hard to relate to his nephew, so he buys him a Winger album or something.

Anyway, I know you’re someone who bitches about Metal Gear, so I can’t take your opinions on series continuity seriously. I think the only Metal Gear Solid game that had a shitty storyline was MGS2, which was so bad that I actually had to be talked into giving MGS3 a shot when it came out. So, I don’t what you were talking about when you were saying that Rising couldn’t ruin it anymore than it already did.

As for Resident Evil 6, I actually liked it for the most part, with the exception of the second half of Chris’ game and the first half of Jake’s. Leon’s was awesome. It was everything I’d want in an RE title.

@53 – I know that. It’s why I want this to underperform, so that Capcom will learn a lesson. That lesson being Ninja Theory were not the right developer for this.

They’ve have made one game I thought was okay (Heavenly Sword) and another that I thought was a shitty game with a good story (Enslaved). I don’t think they should have been anywhere near this and if this underperforms, I doubt anyone at Ninja Theory will get punished for it. And if they do, eh, listen to the fans next time. Push for it. Do what the guys at Sucker Punch did when we hated the Cole redesign for Infamous 2.

@53 – In fact, if I recall correctly, it was actually Inafune who wanted the whole change of character during his weird “I hate everything Japanese” phase. Once he was gone, they should have pushed to go back to a more traditional take on the character.

@52: Well then, what was it? Most ‘DMC Fans’ would certainly disagree with you there and if DMC was never cool, why bring up the word ‘cool’ at all?

If Original Dante wasn’t a douchebag i don’t know who is. So nothing lost.

“I think the only Metal Gear Solid game that had a shitty storyline was MGS2″

Have you played MGS4? Or Peace Walker? If you think the story in both games were good then you really set the bar low, didn’t you? Either that or you simply don’t care about the gaping wholes in the story.

MGS4′s whole existence is to apologize what Hideo messed up in MGS2 and while they did this they fucked up even more.

“I hypnotized myself into believing to be a Doppelganger and some stuff about NANOMACHINES!”

Fantastic Story.

Peace Walker: “Oh, hello french girl, you obviously hurt your leg, let me X-Ray through your clothes and talk with you about Self-Esteem issues in the middle of a warzone. Oh you like birds? Me too! No i’m sorry, i’m only interested in underage girls.”

If you don’t know what i’m talking about, you never played Peace Walker.

Congrats that you had so much fun with the action game called Resident Evil 6. It’s funny how you accuse other developers of fucking up franchises but when it’s a franchise you don’t care about, it’s all good.

I played RE6, it’s Michael Bay-dumb. Fun, but dumb and no horror at all. Leon’s campaign was terrible. From start to finish. Little to no originality. Why the fuck did we end up in a mine again?

Then there’s the College at the beginning:

“Don’t make me do this Mr. Zombie President. Hello? Are you listening to me? Mr. President? I know i’ve 15 years experience of Zombie killing, but i’m just not sure if you can hear me.”

“Oh, both of those people are clearly infected, i think i’ll use the elevator with them. Big shocker, they are zombies.”

The whole campaign should’ve been about Jake, starting in eastern europe. Because that’s a new setting and because he’s new, so it would actually make sense that he would be confused when someone who was okay four seconds ago attacks him.

@54: That doesn’t even make sense. Capcom contacted Ninja Theory, they wanted the game Ninja Theory made. That is exactly what they wanted. How is that Ninja Theory’s fault? You doubt NT will get punished for that? Do you even know what you’re saying? Please enjoy your Call of Duty and never ever complain about things not changing because that’s what the fans want.

See, this is why we can’t have nice things. Remember all the hate for DMC4 before it came out? I think it doesn’t go any lower than DMC Fans.

I love the story in Peace Walker actually. Which, by extension, would mean that I don’t play Call of Duty games, because I don’t think it’s possible to enjoy both of those two things. But the only part I didn’t think made sense was the whole weird “Spirit of the Boss Stopping WWIII” part, but I just wrote that off to typical Kojima being weird and that’s part of the charm of it. My only complaint about Peace Walker was that you were just fighting AI bosses instead of the usually interesting (with the exception of 2) bosses in the series.

As for MGS4, the database retcons the retcon about the arm, saying that Ocelot WAS possessed by Liquid at first and then cut the arm off, and then did the hypnotism thing to make people think he was still Liquid. I had a few problems with MGS4, but I saw most of them as being Ryan Peyton’s attempts to Westernize the series. MGS4 is nowhere near my favorite of the series, but it’s still way better than 2.

@58 – and I brought up that the guy who initially brought Ninja Theory in left Capcom. With him gone, they should have tried harder to stem the hate the series was getting. The fact that it is a reboot now and not a prequel like it originally was was part of the damage control they did after he left. They should have taken it further and did one of three things. 1) cancel the title outright, 2) make it a new IP so that people can look at it without it having to compare to the older titles, or 3) change it to a continuation of the old series. Of course, the changes in gameplay would still be a problem, but I am guessing if they had stuck with the original Dante, they would have kept the gameplay more traditional, as well.

And yes, if every other word out of Dante’s mouth was “fuck” then the old school fans would’ve complained about that too, but that’s why you don’t make every word out of his mouth “fuck.”

@60 – I won’t argue with you on the retreading levels being a low-point. Not at all. I think that was a huge mistake they made in DMC4.

As for the Nero criticism, I do remember it, but I also remember it dying down once Capcom announced that old school Dante was playable. And yes, Dante should have had his own levels to play in, or at the very least, his own bosses. I won’t argue that.

“Which, by extension, would mean that I don’t play Call of Duty games, because I don’t think it’s possible to enjoy both of those two things.”

Nonsense.

““Spirit of the Boss Stopping WWIII” part, but I just wrote that off to typical Kojima being weird and that’s part of the charm of it.”

See, that’s what i don’t do. To me the series stopped being great after the first one. Now it’s just Fanservice for horny Pedobears and telenovela watching … people and most of the story is all about Kojima making weird nonsense. Most of the dialogs are bad and childish.

“What does it mean to be soldier?” asks Naked Snake with a shitload of experience as a soldier.

I just know too much about how special forces really operate to think it’s okay to ask such question in a warzone. The last trailer of Ground Zeroes leaves me to believe that we won’t see that much naivety in the new game. You know with the child sitting on the ground in a cage, with a hole in his chest.

That’s what Hideo does, he’s tricking you into thinking that this time the story might make sense, it might be honest, it might be brutal and consequential, but that never happens. He will find a way to fuck up the story, make it about machines, talk some nonsense philosophy and in the end all is good. Some people marry in hangar and all is good. Because he doesn’t want people to feel bad. He has no balls for that.

I’m not going back after playing Spec Ops – The Line. I laugh at everybody who says MGS is a anti-war game. It has so many messages and no fucking focus whatsoever.

Then why, I ask did you even play the games in the first place if you don’t appreciate the weirdness of them? They’re obviously not for you. They were never meant to be realistic simulations of the horrors of war. You cited MGS1 as the last good one, but you seem to be forgetting the Cyborg Ninjas and the “Does love bloom on the battlefield?” conversations or the fact that there were people named Decoy Octopus in it. I had no interest in Spec Ops, because I know war is a horrible thing and atrocities are committed on a regular basis. I don’t need a videogame to tell me that.

If you were actually tricked into thinking there’d be a story that was 100% realistic then you came to the wrong series. I like the mediums and the immortal vampires fueled by nanomachines (Vamp is the only thing from MGS2 that I actually thought was kinda neat) and the singing tanks and the Russian generals who shoot lightning out of their arms and the guy who shoots hornets. THAT is what I like about the series. The oddness of it mixed with the real world situations. THAT was the problem with MGS4. It tried to rationalize things and make some of the weirdness have a plausible reason for it.

I will say, though, that I usually recommend people play them in chronological order, because MGS2 is not as much of a clusterfuck as it is otherwise, if you already know about The Sorrow and the Philosophers/Patriots.

The entire MGS canon is a giant clusterfuck of nonsensical gibberish, pretentious moralising, and an exercise in tedium. Kojima made the whole fucking thing up as it went along. It has not, and never has, had anything meaningful to say.

@64: Because i was young and i did like the weirdness until i realized that the game takes itself way too serious and i can’t stomach that anymore. It’s bullshit.

Granted i haven’t played MGS 1 for a long time. Maybe i should go back and play it again, maybe then i’ll recognize that the series was bad from the get-go. I still enjoy some of the gameplay elements and playing with the AI. But the story and its characters are getting in the way of the fun.

“THAT is what I like about the series. The oddness of it mixed with the real world situations. THAT was the problem with MGS4. It tried to rationalize things and make some of the weirdness have a plausible reason for it.”

See, i might actually agree with you on that. Whenever Hideo tries to explain stuff it just ends up being a complete clusterfuck. He should embrace the bullshit elements and stop pretending its a serious game, because it’s not. Either be serious or be dumb, but don’t try to do both. Some people can do that, Hideo can’t.

Everything supernatural in MGS2 and 4 was explained by Nanomachines and everything supernatural in MGS3 was not explained at all and that was much better. I still dislike MGS 3 because of all the ‘serious’ talk between Snake and The Boss.

@65: Maybe i wasn’t clear enough, but i don’t expect anything from the series anymore. I wonder how Rising is going to be compared to the series. Hideo is not the main writer and What i’ve seen so far make me actually optimistic.

@67 – On the supernatural elements of the Metal Gear series, I really feel that it was mostly Payton’s influence, according to both what he and Kojima have said in interviews, as to why they tried to make things plausible.

Peace Walker shows that, without him, they seem to have said, “screw that approach.” That’s why I was able to write off the sudden supernatural elements of Peace Walker even if I was bothered by their use. I don’t mind that the Boss’s ghost appears, I just didn’t like that it was used as a literal deus ex machina and saved the day. That felt like lazy writing to me. It wasn’t enough to ruin the whole game for me, though, and I was happy to see Metal Gear returning a bit to the fantastical, without a scientific rational thrown in.

@71 Spec Ops is just as overblown and pretentious as everything else on the market.

@70 There really aren’t any. Some of the old Lucasarts stuff had some pretty solid comedy, but most of what’s been released since pretty much the hobby’s inception is completely garbage in this respect. There’s almost nothing in gaming that stands up to any sort of critical assessment of its story.

If it counts I also disagree completely both about the entire state of the industry and about Spec Ops specifically.

I am however not stupid enough to name anything here because it will just be pulled down anyway so whats the point?

So then if you want something akin to old DMC buy Anarchy Reigns in January and not Donte May Cry, this might send a small message to Capcom. So you get a technical, overblown, clearly stupid action game and its cheap. Then if you also want to be 2cool4school and be all edgy Bill O’Reily is evil and drone and anonymous is legion twat buy DmC!

woah.. look at all that “talk” … well i was actually pissed at the new twilight-inspired dante too.. but i just played the demo and the battle mechanics are really great.. had a lot of fun. sooooo looking forward to playing this when it comes out.
and yes I love the old dante too.. but the new DMC as a game is certainly looking to be better than at least dmc 4 and maybe even 3.. can’t saqy anything about the plot.. I loved the shallowness of the old dmc.. or whatever you call it.. it was like “the supernatural” of video games,
anyway off to playing dark souls .. continue with your debate

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