MACCALLUM: It was indicated, prior to that statement, that he president talked about it but that he meant nothing by it, that it didn’t constitute obstruction. So what do you make of all of this, Congressman?

REP. TREY GOWDY (R-SOUTH CAROLINA): Well, there are only two people that know whether or not it came up. One is President Trump and the other is Jim Comey. I think the better line of analysis, and again, I’m not the president’s lawyer, and he can do better than me, but there are four elements to perjury. It has to be under oath, it has to be material, it has to be intentional, the fault’s that it has to be intentional.

I think the president, if he doesn’t remember that coming up, that’s a perfectly acceptable answer, “I don’t remember,” or “That’s not what I recall,” or “I don’t think I phrased it that way.”

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Martha, I will tell you this. If it is obstruction of justice to ask someone to show leniency, then we’re going to have to build a lot more prisons in this country. And there are going to preachers in most of them.

For 20 years, I had preachers call me and ask me to please give this person a second chance, please show some leniency. That is not obstruction of justice, that is what happens all across this county everyday, and Jim Comey must not have felt obstructed because he kept working for the guy, and he wants – if it were up to him, he’d still be working for the guy.