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It has never been any kind of an either-or decision. Claiming that Mr. Westerfield is innocent is not the same as claiming the parents are guilty. Claiming the parents lied does not imply they committed murder, or knew what happened to Danielle, although it doesn't appear this possibility was ever investigated. The evidence suggests it is more likely that Selby or some other unrelated and never suspected person took Danielle.

What remains troubling is not so much that so many people seem so ready to disregard the presumption of innocence and lack of evidence, and instead presume that, since LE, the prosecutor, Nancy Grace. Bill O'Rielly/ Judge Mudd and the jury say so, the accused is guilty. But rather, the zeal with which some continue the attack, even when faced with facts showing otherwise.

BWD

Great post BWD - thanks!!

Life's journey is not to arrive safely at the Grave in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting Holy #[email protected]%&....what a ride!!

Comment

I am not familiar with the name you mention. Should I be?
***********probably not, he was a Jewish man from my town who murdered both of his wonderful children one night when he had visitation with them....I had been campaigning for the courts to recognize his 'softcore violence' upon them..............anyway.................I KNEW Avi..........is all...........

Odd description. Is the fact he was Jewish somehow relevant to killing his children?

Is your board currently reviewing the DVD case?
*********I live in south Florida, cases are state and county limited.
So, no...........my board is not and I could not comment on cases I am reviewing even though there is a veil of annonymity here.

So is your board like a grand jury, determining whether to prosecute or not? IS it an advisory board, helping officials decide on tactics or laws to stop such crimes? Or? What is its purpose besides getting together to discuss cases?

I am here as She, the voice of the voiceless child.................

Oh that's where the user id comes from. I thought.... never mind what I thought. Oops.

*************I don't know why you would think this.......why then haven't you 'moved on?'.............

Well, to some extent I have. I just popped in for a bit to see what was going on, and a post about Barbara Easton caught my eye. I figure I am mostly taking a vacation until the appeals process starts. Trying to avoid burnout.

The reason I am still interested in this case is because I think there was a miscarriage of justice here, and that Westerfield was wrongfully convicted.

What is it about the DVD case that keeps you here? Just curious.
************The ability of the nice ordinary appearing man to fool people and make you ask who you believe, him or your lying eyes..?????/.....the perception that I have that I can and do see through him and recognize this evil man in the aftermath of his vile act.

How can you say Westerfield fooled people? He was convicted of the crime. Or are you referring to someone else here?

More, it is a place where I stop in to see what blinds people?, how do they get bamboozled into seeing innocence where there is venomous guilt? [in my personal opinion].

Have you come to any conclusions on this yet? I'd like to hear them. I've always been interested in what motivates people.

I satisfy my mind sometimes by dropping in here to see how these nice normal straight people will do anything to believe the nice man next door could not have done this, it MUST be the pot smoking swinging parents....

Uuh.. You do realize the insects saying Danielle died Feb 16-18 CLEARS THE PARENTS in addition to clearing Westerfield? Brenda and Damon couldn't have killed Danielle either. While they weren't under 24-7 surveillance like Westerfield was, they had the LE and the media, and relatives, and people trying to help surrounding them. It would have been virtually impossible for them to hide a live Danielle for two weeks with all this going on, and then kill her and dump her body without someone noticing. It has to be someone else.

MM

Illegitimi non carborundum

If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
- Bertrand Russell

Comment

It has never been any kind of an either-or decision. Claiming that Mr. Westerfield is innocent is not the same as claiming the parents are guilty. Claiming the parents lied does not imply they committed murder, or knew what happened to Danielle, although it doesn't appear this possibility was ever investigated. The evidence suggests it is more likely that Selby or some other unrelated and never suspected person took Danielle.

What remains troubling is not so much that so many people seem so ready to disregard the presumption of innocence and lack of evidence, and instead presume that, since LE, the prosecutor, Nancy Grace. Bill O'Rielly/ Judge Mudd and the jury say so, the accused is guilty. But rather, the zeal with which some continue the attack, even when faced with facts showing otherwise.

BWD

Dave I am personally very well aware that freeing the parents from suspicion does not leave only westerfield............or at least did not at the beginning........however, the evidence, not the talking heads...I never get to listen to them nor care I to....if I have the tv on at all it is a DVD, or something like the streaming video from this trial......
It is the experience of the trial testimony, the evidence and the review of the transcripts after the trial each day that brought me to my conclusion

I bow to your greater knowledge regarding procedure or court processes.BUT in the final analysis, I feel westerfield was convicted by the highest degree of probability....or beyond a reasonable doubt that it was he who is guilty of the crime. In my opinion.

Comment

[QUOTE=Miss Marple]Odd description. Is the fact he was Jewish somehow relevant to killing his children?
*******it was his "reason".Avi, Israeli born and American married a convert, Lynnie ........when they divorced, she returned to the faith of he rfamily............I , too, am Jewish and it was though our life as Jews that we knew each other.

So is your board like a grand jury, determining whether to prosecute or not?
*****no, I would never participate on any jury, grande or other....I have always been excused due to my background..........

IS it an advisory board, helping officials decide on tactics or laws to stop such crimes?
************Yes. It is an 'Advisory/Review Committee'

Oh that's where the user id comes from. I thought.... never mind what I thought. Oops.
********Yes, it is indeed wherein my identity everywhere derives, I just do not discuss it ordinarily.

Well, to some extent I have. I just popped in for a bit to see what was going on, and a post about Barbara Easton caught my eye. I figure I am mostly taking a vacation until the appeals process starts. Trying to avoid burnout.
*****Yes, I too, had been on 'sabbatical' for quite a time, stopped in after getting a PM from someone about an issue and here I am again.....it is funny that I have completed 2 degrees since this case........

The reason I am still interested in this case is because I think there was a miscarriage of justice here, and that Westerfield was wrongfully convicted.
**************ah, I see, but of course I disagree with the injustice part.

How can you say Westerfield fooled people? He was convicted of the crime. Or are you referring to someone else here?
**********He was convicted, yes, but he fooled people, the child porn, categorizing for Congress INDEED.............puhleez........... ,the video of his unsuspecting neighbor, the filming of his unknowing lover, the peeping , JennyLynn........I am sure there is more but I cannot think of it now but he is [in my opinion] the incarnation of evil, hiding in his middleclass life.....no I am not referring to anyone else.....

Have you come to any conclusions on this yet? I'd like to hear them. I've always been interested in what motivates people.
**********I do not know how my conclusions could be stated any clearer than I already have...............I am motivated by my survival which holds a chain of guilt, an obligation to try to be the light to the darkness surrounding crimes against children..........

Uuh.. You do realize the insects saying Danielle died Feb 16-18 CLEARS THE PARENTS in addition to clearing Westerfield? Brenda and Damon couldn't have killed Danielle either. While they weren't under 24-7 surveillance like Westerfield was, they had the LE and the media, and relatives, and people trying to help surrounding them. It would have been virtually impossible for them to hide a live Danielle for two weeks with all this going on, and then kill her and dump her body without someone noticing. It has to be someone else.

**********Of course I realized that. I am not thinking it was either and because I believe the parents innocent it MUST be westerfield........I feel the evidence was multi-layered, replete with too many coincidences and correlates to find anything but westerfield as the killer. For me, although there are always flaws and errors in trials, there are often problem people on either side of a case..in THIS case, there is a path, populated with hair after hair, fiber after fiber, prints, blood, wild ride, bleach smell, frenzied cleaning day, arrival at dry cleaner disheveled, twice in one day to dry cleaner...........I could go on but I am sure you know the evidence as well as I. You see innocence in it, I see guilt.

Comment

So is your board like a grand jury, determining whether to prosecute or not?
*****no, I would never participate on any jury, grande or other....I have always been excused due to my background..........

IS it an advisory board, helping officials decide on tactics or laws to stop such crimes?
************Yes. It is an 'Advisory/Review Committee'

Well, if you wouldn't qualify for a grand jury, I am surprised they let you on an advisory committee.

Have you come to any conclusions on this yet? I'd like to hear them. I've always been interested in what motivates people.
**********I do not know how my conclusions could be stated any clearer than I already have...............I am motivated by my survival which holds a chain of guilt, an obligation to try to be the light to the darkness surrounding crimes against children..........

I wasn't asking about your motivations, I was asking what conclusions you had reached on what blinds and bamboozles people in the quote below. I am still interested in any conclusions you have on that.

Originally posted by sheeee

More, it is a place where I stop in to see what blinds people?, how do they get bamboozled into seeing innocence where there is venomous guilt? [in my personal opinion].

**********Of course I realized that. I am not thinking it was either and because I believe the parents innocent it MUST be westerfield........I feel the evidence was multi-layered, replete with too many coincidences and correlates to find anything but westerfield as the killer. For me, although there are always flaws and errors in trials, there are often problem people on either side of a case..in THIS case, there is a path, populated with hair after hair, fiber after fiber, prints, blood, wild ride, bleach smell, frenzied cleaning day, arrival at dry cleaner disheveled, twice in one day to dry cleaner...........I could go on but I am sure you know the evidence as well as I. You see innocence in it, I see guilt.

Aah, here's where we differ. I look at the entomology findings, that Danielle died on Feb16-18, and realize that makes it impossible in any realistic scenario for Westerfield to have killed Danielle. He was under 24/7 surveillance starting Feb 4. No matter what other evidence is available. Impossible.

MM

Illegitimi non carborundum

If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
- Bertrand Russell

Comment

I could go on but I am sure you know the evidence as well as I. You see innocence in it, I see guilt.

Actually, I would say MM knows a lot more about the evidence in this case, and it's significants than you do. That's not an insult either. This happened a lot in this case, when people ended up seeing something that didn't sound right. They began to do their own research and sometimes that takes many hours, weeks, and years of study. I'm still finding stuff I missed. I know that MM has spent a great deal of time studying the entomology evidence, and testimony. Her approach is based on facts, and not emotion. She realizes that the simplest explanation for Faulkner's report, is that Danielle was not killed when LE officials had concluded she was no longer living. A huge mistake on their part, if the bug guy is right. No evidence was presented to show his report was flawed.

I don't think LE would ever want to admit to themselves, or anyone else, that Danielle was likely alive when they already decided she was dead. Even if there were that remote chance that her body was kept in a cool environment, like a locker at the morgue, and then dumped around the middle of the month, the PMI still indicates when the body was available for flies, and that date excludes Westerfield. There is no way around it. The ONLY explanation Faulkner could come up with, was offered by LE, and that was that he bleached the body. There is also no evidence of that, unlike what he told people at his lecture.

You can also see sheeee, some of us have gone way beyond what some might do, simply because we see flaws throughout this whole case, and what appears a rush to judgment. Reading similar wrongful convictions, simply supports our opinions. You say, why don't you do something? I say, we have been doing something for 5 years. Ever sit down and try and discuss the details with someone who doesn't know this case? I have, and I know that most of them got their knowledge from the media, that got much of the facts wrong.

Vinny Gambini: When you look at the bricks from the right angle, they're as thin as this playing card. His whole case is an illusion, a magic trick. It has to be an illusion, 'cause you're innocent. Nobody - I mean nobody - pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini, especially this one.

Comment

Dave I am personally very well aware that freeing the parents from suspicion does not leave only westerfield............or at least did not at the beginning........however, the evidence, not the talking heads...I never get to listen to them nor care I to....if I have the tv on at all it is a DVD, or something like the streaming video from this trial......
It is the experience of the trial testimony, the evidence and the review of the transcripts after the trial each day that brought me to my conclusion

I bow to your greater knowledge regarding procedure or court processes.BUT in the final analysis, I feel westerfield was convicted by the highest degree of probability....or beyond a reasonable doubt that it was he who is guilty of the crime. In my opinion.

I am curious. What was the source of your streaming videos?

You have stated that the elements of the crime of murder were demonstrated. Could you, perhaps, provide a summary of how it was shown that Mr. Westerfield acted in a way that lead to Danielle's death?

BWD

BWD

A big problem with wind and solar is the need to store energy for use when needed. Nature has been solving this problem for millions of years, with coal.

Comment

[QUOTE=Miss Marple]Well, if you wouldn't qualify for a grand jury, I am surprised they let you on an advisory committee.
*************perhaps you read to quickly or without carefully considering the meaning of my words....I said I would not PARTICIPATE.......not that I would not qualify. They didn't LET me on the committee they invited me and are very pleased to have a sitting professor with my insight and ability to articulate a 'child's eye view' of crime scenes. I have brought both experience and expertise along with credentials to publish. Indeed I sit on a few Advisory Boards..one governing the allocation of social service dollars and a sub committee on homeowner programs.

I wasn't asking about your motivations, I was asking what conclusions you had reached on what blinds and bamboozles people in the quote below. I am still interested in any conclusions you have on that.
*********I continue to be amazed how easy it is for the killer to hide in plain sight. I think if I have identified any one factor it would be innocence or inexperience. Or both. Even police who are veteran homicide officers are amazed and changed by a walkthrough of the crime scene from my perspective. I have been able to elicit forensic discovery that might have been missed because the examiners are, after all, adults.
However, I too, like the woman who personally knew the serial killer, the crime writer, Ann Rule or Ann Rice or something......I, too, have been shocked on occasion. There is no litmus test for killers.

Aah, here's where we differ. I look at the entomology findings, that Danielle died on Feb16-18, and realize that makes it impossible in any realistic scenario for Westerfield to have killed Danielle. He was under 24/7 surveillance starting Feb 4. No matter what other evidence is available. Impossible.

**********Well, as you said ....we differ here.......I never heard that entomologists had that ability at all.......far as I know they can only say how long the remains have been available for infestation........may miss my guess but I seem to recall that was the operant theory at trial on this case, that the entomologists could only state how long the body had been available to the insects..............If this were [what you have stated so emphatically here] known as a scientific certainty, why was there a trial in the first place? Methinks you have given entomology an imaginary ability it does not posess in fact ....time of death [as far as I am aware] a very elusive factor, extremely difficult to establish.

Comment

Actually, I would say MM knows a lot more about the evidence in this case, and it's significants than you do. That's not an insult either. This happened a lot in this case, when people ended up seeing something that didn't sound right. They began to do their own research and sometimes that takes many hours, weeks, and years of study. I'm still finding stuff I missed. I know that MM has spent a great deal of time studying the entomology evidence, and testimony. Her approach is based on facts, and not emotion. She realizes that the simplest explanation for Faulkner's report, is that Danielle was not killed when LE officials had concluded she was no longer living. A huge mistake on their part, if the bug guy is right. No evidence was presented to show his report was flawed.

I don't think LE would ever want to admit to themselves, or anyone else, that Danielle was likely alive when they already decided she was dead. Even if there were that remote chance that her body was kept in a cool environment, like a locker at the morgue, and then dumped around the middle of the month, the PMI still indicates when the body was available for flies, and that date excludes Westerfield. There is no way around it. The ONLY explanation Faulkner could come up with, was offered by LE, and that was that he bleached the body. There is also no evidence of that, unlike what he told people at his lecture.

You can also see sheeee, some of us have gone way beyond what some might do, simply because we see flaws throughout this whole case, and what appears a rush to judgment. Reading similar wrongful convictions, simply supports our opinions. You say, why don't you do something? I say, we have been doing something for 5 years. Ever sit down and try and discuss the details with someone who doesn't know this case? I have, and I know that most of them got their knowledge from the media, that got much of the facts wrong.

How many 'save dave' tee shirts have you sold Patrick?

Comment

[QUOTE=BigWaveDave]I am curious. What was the source of your streaming videos?
**********oh my my my, did I use the wrong buzzword for the live video from the court room during the trial? Well, PUH LEEEEEEEEEZ forgive my failure to get the terminology right and thanks ever so much for calling me on it.

You have stated that the elements of the crime of murder were demonstrated. Could you, perhaps, provide a summary of how it was shown that Mr. Westerfield acted in a way that lead to Danielle's death?

BWD

***********Dave YOU are the lawyer and could tell us the elements of the crime, without my copy of Florida Statutes I have no clue and with it I like guidence looking stuff like that up.....dozens of times I have thought some element was elementary and it was only 'if included'.........I am simply a voice in the crowd and so what I think is: He apparently had her in his house bedroom area, SUV and RV without her parents permission and she was found dead immediately after these visits. He was riding around in his RV on a strange tour of I do not know what, came home acting strange and the evidence of her presence in his intimate environs was discovered. That is MY opinion having viewed , read, mulled and considered the evidence available in the public view.

Comment

**********Well, as you said ....we differ here.......I never heard that entomologists had that ability at all.......far as I know they can only say how long the remains have been available for infestation........may miss my guess but I seem to recall that was the operant theory at trial on this case, that the entomologists could only state how long the body had been available to the insects..............If this were [what you have stated so emphatically here] known as a scientific certainty, why was there a trial in the first place? Methinks you have given entomology an imaginary ability it does not posess in fact ....time of death [as far as I am aware] a very elusive factor, extremely difficult to establish.

Politics.

I have explained this before. Pfingst wanted to get reelected.

That's why Westerfield was arrested and charged less than a month after Danielle disappeared and before the body was found.

Highly unusual, but understandable when you realize that the march primary was less than a week away, and Pfingst was having trouble in the polls.

The, unfortunately for Westerfield, Pfingst was forced into a runoff, so all thiis posturing still mattered even after the March primary.

Then came the entomology evidence which not only indicated that Danielle was alive for 2 weeks + after she disappeared,

Two things here. Recently the info had been out about how the SD DA's office got it wrong in the Stephanie Crowe case. They couldn't afford to let the public down again by admitting another error in identifying a suspect.Too embarrassing. The public would lose confidence in them and the SD LE. Especially if the public realized Danielle was alive and could have possibly been saved if LE didn't assume she was dead.

And Pfingst facing a tough run off, he couldn't afford the embarrassment either. So they pressed on.

The next thing, and I think the thing that made the difference between Westerfield getting convicted or not, is that Westerfield insisted on his right to a speedy trial. He's looking at as I'm innocent, I just want this over with.

But , Unfortunately for Westerfield, that puts the trial in the summer of 2002, just before the election in fall 2002.

Now the DA's office HAS to win the case no matter the cost, no matter what they have to do. The embarrassment of Westerfield getting acquitted would be too much.

They did all sorts of things, including floating the alleged plea bargain story, which upon close analysis doesn't hold up.

And they pushed all sorts of stuff in the trial. Such as the hair lengths theory. Interesting that that is only mentioned in closing arguments, not in the actual testimony. Hmmm..I wonder why. Perhaps because witnesses have to swear to tell the truth. Rather fascinating when you look closely at the transcripts to see what they did.

The media helped also to whip people up into a "Westerfield is guilty" frenzy.

But they succeeded in spades. Westerfield was convicted, and most people, such as yourself, believe Westerfield is guilty. Even though the entomology clears him.

I personally think if Westerfield hadn't pushed his right to a speedy trial, the trial wouldn't have come up until sometime after the election, and there's a good chance, especially with a new DA in there, the charges would have been dropped because of the entomology.

Well, that's what I think happened.

Politics trumps entomology. Politics trumps the truth.

Think it can't happen? It has happened before Ira Reiner and the McMartin preschool molestation case. Totally made up to get Reiner reelected.

And it has happened since. Mike Nifong and the Duke Lacrosse team rape case. Nifong is now on trial for what he did in that case. All in the name of getting elected. my post about Nifong on trial

jmho

MM

Illegitimi non carborundum

If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
- Bertrand Russell

That's why Westerfield was arrested and charged less than a month after Danielle disappeared and before the body was found.

Highly unusual, but understandable when you realize that the march primary was less than a week away, and Pfingst was having trouble in the polls.

The, unfortunately for Westerfield, Pfingst was forced into a runoff, so all thiis posturing still mattered even after the March primary.

Then came the entomology evidence which not only indicated that Danielle was alive for 2 weeks + after she disappeared,

Two things here. Recently the info had been out about how the SD DA's office got it wrong in the Stephanie Crowe case. They couldn't afford to let the public down again by admitting another error in identifying a suspect.Too embarrassing. The public would lose confidence in them and the SD LE. Especially if the public realized Danielle was alive and could have possibly been saved if LE didn't assume she was dead.

And Pfingst facing a tough run off, he couldn't afford the embarrassment either. So they pressed on.

The next thing, and I think the thing that made the difference between Westerfield getting convicted or not, is that Westerfield insisted on his right to a speedy trial. He's looking at as I'm innocent, I just want this over with.

But , Unfortunately for Westerfield, that puts the trial in the summer of 2002, just before the election in fall 2002.

Now the DA's office HAS to win the case no matter the cost, no matter what they have to do. The embarrassment of Westerfield getting acquitted would be too much.

They did all sorts of things, including floating the alleged plea bargain story, which upon close analysis doesn't hold up.

And they pushed all sorts of stuff in the trial. Such as the hair lengths theory. Interesting that that is only mentioned in closing arguments, not in the actual testimony. Hmmm..I wonder why. Perhaps because witnesses have to swear to tell the truth. Rather fascinating when you look closely at the transcripts to see what they did.

The media helped also to whip people up into a "Westerfield is guilty" frenzy.

But they succeeded in spades. Westerfield was convicted, and most people, such as yourself, believe Westerfield is guilty. Even though the entomology clears him.

I personally think if Westerfield hadn't pushed his right to a speedy trial, the trial wouldn't have come up until sometime after the election, and there's a good chance, especially with a new DA in there, the charges would have been dropped because of the entomology.

Well, that's what I think happened.

Politics trumps entomology. Politics trumps the truth.

Think it can't happen? It has happened before Ira Reiner and the McMartin preschool molestation case. Totally made up to get Reiner reelected.

And it has happened since. Mike Nifong and the Duke Lacrosse team rape case. Nifong is now on trial for what he did in that case. All in the name of getting elected. my post about Nifong on trial

jmho

MM

As you say, believe this if you will..........it did not work with the Duke guys nor in the Stefani Crowe case...........for exactly the reasons it would not have floated in th ewesterfield case IF there were real holes in the case.

The entomology only dates the onset of infestation, it does not conclude any time of death, there is just no science that backs certainty for time of death.............

here's a man who rides around all weekend, comes home and does laundry, drops off dry cleaning, cleans his SUV.changes all his house linens all in one morning, ..................

I am certain such collusions do occur. I have just never seen multi layered cadres of peripheral forces act in uunison to sneak, lie, and plant evidence on an innocent man....................., police, forensic specialists, private labs, detectives, attorneys, investigators, district attorney personnel, evidence handlers, the huge number of this "let's do it for a support to this guy's political career" groupie group would have to have precision coordination, lie, sign their names to it, co-opt their colleagues to do so..............................good G-d, what evil monsters in huge numbers you believe in.........I mean I grant you many police are Republican, not my favorite social comrades, but even they ...................
Whew......I mean even having experienced dread evil, I do not see the world as a place where several layers of professional will prostitute themselves, let a murderer go free, commit felony after felony to entrap a poor innocent teeth rubbing, child rape porn possessing sweetheart like westerfield.

It surely is a personal healing to realize that YOU, anonymous person on a forum, see a darker, more often evil world than I do, I wonder how you function within a system you find so rife with human filth. It would take literally dozens of amoral persons and acts to accomplish your scenario and even then it does not account for anything actual......the hairs,fibers each in each location, the prints, the blood in each location...........
Whatever, this is a democracy after all.............let us agree that we truly, categorically, most assuredly disagree. .

Comment

I am certain such collusions do occur. I have just never seen multi layered cadres of peripheral forces act in uunison to sneak, lie, and plant evidence on an innocent man....................., police, forensic specialists, private labs, detectives, attorneys, investigators, district attorney personnel, evidence handlers, the huge number of this "let's do it for a support to this guy's political career" groupie group would have to have precision coordination, lie, sign their names to it, co-opt their colleagues to do so..............................good G-d, what evil monsters in huge numbers you believe in.........I mean I grant you many police are Republican, not my favorite social comrades, but even they ...................
Whew......I mean even having experienced dread evil, I do not see the world as a place where several layers of professional will prostitute themselves, let a murderer go free, commit felony after felony to entrap a poor innocent teeth rubbing, child rape porn possessing sweetheart like westerfield.

It is not so much everyone working together to reelect someone, as it is a matter of each working on his or her own to benefit him or herself, and that it all just happens they all have what turns out to be the same goal to accomplish that.

This would be nothing compared to what has been documented as having happened in the McMartin case.

I guess that one bothers me because I did "believe the children" for close to 7 years, wanting to crucify Raymond Buckey, until it became obvious there was no case, it was all made up by people hoping to either make a name for themselves ( the reporter and the psychologist) oro getting reelected (Reiner) or further their careers. And all the others working to convict because it was their job or their children and they believed the crimes actually occurred.

It was based on the rantings of a crazy woman with no grounding in reality.

It surely is a personal healing to realize that YOU, anonymous person on a forum, see a darker, more often evil world than I do, I wonder how you function within a system you find so rife with human filth. It would take literally dozens of amoral persons and acts to accomplish your scenario and even then it does not account for anything actual......the hairs,fibers each in each location, the prints, the blood in each location...........
Whatever, this is a democracy after all.............let us agree that we truly, categorically, most assuredly disagree. .

I am glad I was able to being you some healing

MM

Illegitimi non carborundum

If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
- Bertrand Russell

Comment

As you say, believe this if you will..........it did not work with the Duke guys nor in the Stefani Crowe case...........for exactly the reasons it would not have floated in th ewesterfield case IF there were real holes in the case.

The entomology only dates the onset of infestation, it does not conclude any time of death, there is just no science that backs certainty for time of death.............

here's a man who rides around all weekend, comes home and does laundry, drops off dry cleaning, cleans his SUV.changes all his house linens all in one morning, ..................

I am certain such collusions do occur. I have just never seen multi layered cadres of peripheral forces act in uunison to sneak, lie, and plant evidence on an innocent man....................., police, forensic specialists, private labs, detectives, attorneys, investigators, district attorney personnel, evidence handlers, the huge number of this "let's do it for a support to this guy's political career" groupie group would have to have precision coordination, lie, sign their names to it, co-opt their colleagues to do so..............................good G-d, what evil monsters in huge numbers you believe in.........I mean I grant you many police are Republican, not my favorite social comrades, but even they ...................
Whew......I mean even having experienced dread evil, I do not see the world as a place where several layers of professional will prostitute themselves, let a murderer go free, commit felony after felony to entrap a poor innocent teeth rubbing, child rape porn possessing sweetheart like westerfield.

It surely is a personal healing to realize that YOU, anonymous person on a forum, see a darker, more often evil world than I do, I wonder how you function within a system you find so rife with human filth. It would take literally dozens of amoral persons and acts to accomplish your scenario and even then it does not account for anything actual......the hairs,fibers each in each location, the prints, the blood in each location...........
Whatever, this is a democracy after all.............let us agree that we truly, categorically, most assuredly disagree. .

And. there is no evidence whatsoever that Mr. Westerfield kidnapped or killed Danielle vanDam, and no evidence that Danielle died during the period between 2/1/2 and 2/5/2. The only evidence you seem to think matters, would show at most that Danielle was at one or more times present in Mr. Westerfield's motor home or house. Nothing whatsoever even suggests she died there. Absolutely nothing! The obvious mistaken lead that LE had and the constant sound bite/news teasers repeating the out of context words "as good as a confession" by Mr. Feldman, and reporting all sorts of inaccurate stories was enough to get the nation behind the lynch mob; members of which lined up to be on the jury, and held vigil at the courthouse.

BWD

A big problem with wind and solar is the need to store energy for use when needed. Nature has been solving this problem for millions of years, with coal.

Comment

The entomology only dates the onset of infestation, it does not conclude any time of death, there is just no science that backs certainty for time of death.............
.

Most entomologists would disagree with you on this, including Goff in his writings, but not when he testified in the trial. It must be another one of those "not in the DVD case" things.

IIRC most of the other entomologists equated PMI with TOD. That's the basis of entomology. The whole reason for its existence in the legal world. I bet even Dusek in some of his other trials where the entomology supports his time line would disagree with you there.

But not in the DVD case because "the DVD case is different".

MM

Illegitimi non carborundum

If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
- Bertrand Russell