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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.

God our talent is so bad we cannot even get our second best player to be some other teams 3rd option right now for a trade.

The real problem is that we aren't dealing from a position of strength in talks with the Cavs. Murphy is overpaid, awful on defense, and not the best PF available; Cleveland doesn't have to make a deal at all, much less overpay for a guy like him.

Comment

To save you all from grief, here is the trade recap for this deadline from the pacers perspective:

NOTHING

All talk, but nothing gets done.

Seriously, do not get your hopes up. There are feelers out for teams willing to overpay for Troy Murphy or TJ Ford, but since there are no more NBA GM's with the basketball front office acumen of Isiah Thomas, IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, PEOPLE.

Accept it, take a depth breath, and stop refreshing real gm and hoopshype windows every 5 minutes! otherwise the disappointment will make you "go PFFL"*.

* ask an old-timer what this means

The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

Comment

For all y'all complaining about Troy Murphy's trade value... What about Amare's? What about Jamison's? Kevin Martin's? Can anyone name me one single player getting anything close to equal trade value on the market?

Hell, if the rumors of JJ for Trophy are true, then Troy is probably getting the closest to his own value right now. Isn't he?

Comment

Jamison
Chad Ford: For weeks, sources close to the situation have asserted to ESPN.com that the Wizards were reluctant to trade Antawn Jamison. Over the course of the last 72 hours, however, it appears that the Wizards' position on Jamison has softened considerably.

Sources say the Wizards and Cavs had discussions on Tuesday about several potential deals that would send Jamison to Cleveland. The same sources said talks ended without a firm offer from Cleveland.

As of Wednesday afternoon, the Wizards are waiting on the Cavs to see if those potential deals become an actual trade.

"The ball is in Cleveland's court," one source told ESPN.com. "If Cleveland comes back with a firm offer based on the potential deals they discussed, I think the Wizards will move Jamison."

The Wizards' new stance on Jamison is being fueled by two factors. First, the trade of Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood for Josh Howard has left the team lacking in talent. Jamsion signed an extension with the club 18 months ago expecting to be on a contender. Now that the Wizards are in rebuilding mode, Jamison would like to be traded to a contender.

"Jamison is a great guy," one source said. "He's been a model player for the Wizards on and off the floor. The Wizards don't want to lose him. He's been a rock in the locker room. However, I think the Wizards want to do right by him. He's at the end of his career. He deserves to have a chance to win a title."

The other factor is that the Wizards are currently over the NBA's luxury tax threshold. At least one potential deal discussed with Cleveland on Tuesday (Jamison and Mike James for Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Jamario Moon) would put the Wizards below the tax this season. Getting below the tax could save the Wizards around $10 million this year once you factor in rebates that teams under the tax receive from the league.

If the Cavs decide to pull the trigger on the Amare Stoudemire deal instead, look for the Wizards to explore ways of trading Jamison this summer.

"I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
-Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05

Comment

For all y'all complaining about Troy Murphy's trade value... What about Amare's? What about Jamison's? Kevin Martin's? Can anyone name me one single player getting anything close to equal trade value on the market?

Hell, if the rumors of JJ for Trophy are true, then Troy is probably getting the closest to his own value right now. Isn't he?

Only when (IF) any of those players are traded will we know what their trade value is. Until then it is just speculation.

Comment

For all y'all complaining about Troy Murphy's trade value... What about Amare's? What about Jamison's? Kevin Martin's? Can anyone name me one single player getting anything close to equal trade value on the market?

Hell, if the rumors of JJ for Trophy are true, then Troy is probably getting the closest to his own value right now. Isn't he?

That's what been painfully clear, everything that we have heard is that the best offer that the Pacers received ( supposedly ) is the "Last resort / Plan B / Taco Bell 99 cent Value Menu Burrito / Choose the Ugliest Girl at the Bar cuz you have no choice at the end of the night" offer from the Cavs where we get an Expiring Contract and an extreme reluctance to give up anything of value.

What value does a $12+ mil Expiring Contract get on the Open Market in 2010-2011 Trade Deadline when the best offer that we got this season was a Expiring Contract and a prospect?

Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

Comment

That's what been painfully clear, everything that we have heard is that the best offer that the Pacers received ( supposedly ) is the "Last resort / Plan B / Taco Bell 99 cent Value Menu Burrito / Choose the Ugliest Girl at the Bar cuz you have no choice at the end of the night" offer from the Cavs where we get an Expiring Contract and an extreme reluctance to give up anything of value.

What value does a $12+ mil Expiring Contract get on the Open Market in 2010-2011 Trade Deadline when the best offer that we got this season was a Expiring Contract and a prospect?

THIS.

That's the one thing I hope Bird and also the Pacers fans realize. Look at what expire contracts have to offer this year. And we're talking about what is suppose to be one of the biggest free agent years, with an array of superstars possibly available, and as of now an expiring gets you the like of Caron Butler, who is a good player don't get me wrong, but not necessarily a franchise changer, and he's only available b/c the Wizards are blowing up the team, same can be said for Jamison.

You also have Amare, but there are some who are even skeptical about him. Plus the Amare and Jamison deals are requiring a team to give up either a 1st round pick, or young prospect. SERIOUSLY?

Let's not forget the fact that the big "difference maker" being traded is going to have to want to play in Indiana.... yeah right.

So far the guys on the move for expiring have gone to a contender Like Butler to Dallas, or Camby to Portland. Amare is rumored to the Heat or to the Cavs along with Jamison.

The same can be said for a free agent. of course money talks, but players these days want a chance to win as well, and the Pacers don't offer that right now, and we're not a big market so we don't have the Knicks or Nets type of attraction either

Our best bet is to luck out in the draft, or take a gamble by overpaying or signing for a young player who hasn't got a chance to show his stuff on another team and needs a change of scenery, or hoping a good player on a team that's stacked what's to be the main guy, or showcase his skills elsewhere to get more credit.

Though we have contracts coming off the books in 2011, that frankly means nothing except Bird better make his decisions a lot more wisely, b/c he can't afford to play it safe when that time comes

Comment

Chad Ford: All is still quiet on the Amare Stoudemire trade front. As of Wednesday afternoon, sources familiar with the negotiations said the Suns have yet to signal whether the team will trade Stoudemire to the Cavs or Heat -- or whether they'll trade him at all.
The Cavs have been pushing for the Suns to give them an answer. But Phoenix is holding out and will likely wait until Thursday to make a decision, according to sources.
Of the two teams vying for Stoudemire, only the Heat have actually received permission from the Suns to speak to Stoudemire's agent. The Cavs, as of Wednesday afternoon, have yet to call.
Still, sources close to the negotiations say that, right now, Cleveland is the front-runner. Why? Because the Heat have yet to offer the Suns a deal that would beat the Cavs' offer of Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson. One source familiar with the negotiations told ESPN.com that the Heat have yet to offer Michael Beasley or either of their two first-round picks.
"I'm not sure Miami is willing to pay the price for Amare," a Suns source told ESPN.com. "We have to get something for him. We're not giving him away. If Miami gets serious then I think they would get him. But right now, they are not showing they're serious."
Is there a possibility that Amare isn't traded at all?
"It's possible," the Suns source said. "We haven't been blown away with an offer yet."
If the Suns decide to keep Stoudemire, it could be a rocky few months. A source familiar with the negotiations told ESPN.com that the Suns and Stoudemire have ended all talks on a contract extension. If Stoudemire plays out the season in Phoenix, he'll likely leave this summer.
"He's being personally wooed by LeBron James and Dwyane Wade," the source said. "On the other side, he's being actively shopped by the Suns. He feels like he may be more wanted elsewhere."

Comment

Chad Ford: The Knicks and Rockets spoke this morning about a potential Tracy McGrady trade. Sources familiar with the negotiations told ESPN.com that while the Knicks told the Rockets that they remain interested in acquiring McGrady in a deal for Larry Hughes and Jared Jeffries, they are still unwilling to meet all of the Rockets' demands -- cap relief, Jordan Hill, the swapping of 2011 first-round picks and the Knicks' 2012 first-round pick.
"We'd like McGrady and the cap relief," one Knicks source said. "But the Rockets are asking for too much. We're willing to pay a premium to make a deal. But the price right now is still too high."
According to the source, the Rockets are still looking for other partners. The Bulls have been mentioned as a possibility, however, sources believe that their offer is less attractive than the Knicks' -- even if the Knicks don't give the Rockets everything they're asking for.
The Knicks also had several other trades brewing on Wednesday. Two sources said the Celtics and Knicks are in advanced talks about a Nate Robinson-for-Eddie House swap. However, both sources stressed that a deal was not completed yet.
The Timberwolves also inquired about a possible Darko Milicic-for-Brian Cardinal deal. The Knicks might be inclined to pull the trigger (it could save them some cash this year) depending on what happens with the Rockets and Celtics.

Comment

Chad Ford: The Knicks also had several other trades brewing Wednesday. Two sources said the Celtics and Knicks are in advanced talks about a Nate Robinson-for-Eddie House swap. However, both sources stressed that a deal was not completed yet.
The Timberwolves also inquired about a possible Darko Milicic-for-Brian Cardinal deal. The Knicks might be inclined to pull the trigger (it could save them some cash this year) depending on what happens with the Rockets and Celtics.

Comment

Marc Stein: The Miami Heat have indeed expressed interest in San Antonio's Roger Mason, but the Miami deal that interested the Spurs most is no longer possible.
The Spurs were hoping to tempt Miami into absorbing Mason's $3.8 million expiring contract into a $4.3 million trade exception that would have enabled the teams to complete a deal without San Antonio needing to take back another player. A future second-round pick from the Heat would have completed the transaction.
But the Heat, dealing with their own luxury-tax issues like San Antonio and reluctant to add to their payroll, ultimately declined.
And the trade exception in question -- created through the departure of Marcus Banks in Miami's Shawn Marion trade with Toronto on Feb. 15, 2009 -- expired Monday at midnight.
The Spurs and Mason's agent, Mark Bartelstein, have mutually agreed to pursue trades before Thursday's 3 p.m. trading deadline, but it'll take a new trade construction to get Mason to Miami now if the Heat want to try again.
San Antonio is more than $10 million over the luxury-tax threshold, so the deal proposed Monday to Miami would have cut their tax bill by nearly 40 percent. Miami is roughly $2.8 million over the tax threshold.

Conley
It's rare that you hear a new name pop up on the trade front this late in the game, but two sources have told ESPN.com that the Grizzlies have let teams know Mike Conley can be had in exchange for cap relief and a good first-round pick.

The Grizzlies have had an on-again, off-again relationship with Conley since his rookie season. And with Jamaal Tinsley in place, and O.J. Mayo capable of swinging to the point, it sounds like they're ready to cut bait if the right deal comes along.

Although one source stressed that it's unlikely Conley is moved before the trade deadline, it's interesting that his name is even out there.

"Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"(Watching You Like A Hawk!)

Conley
It's rare that you hear a new name pop up on the trade front this late in the game, but two sources have told ESPN.com that the Grizzlies have let teams know Mike Conley can be had in exchange for cap relief and a good first-round pick.

The Grizzlies have had an on-again, off-again relationship with Conley since his rookie season. And with Jamaal Tinsley in place, and O.J. Mayo capable of swinging to the point, it sounds like they're ready to cut bait if the right deal comes along.

Although one source stressed that it's unlikely Conley is moved before the trade deadline, it's interesting that his name is even out there.

Wow,

not trading away an existing starting PG becuase of Jammal Tinsley in place!

must really tell you something about Conley for them to give up on a young PG for expirings