I think many of those that posted as they did revealed the agenda they're here to further. The race baiting was obvious. Race baiters are some of
the lowest pond scum there is - just above rapists and child molesters.

I think many of those that posted as they did revealed the agenda they're here to further. The race baiting was obvious. Race baiters are some of
the lowest pond scum there is - just above rapists and child molesters.

amen
amen a 2nd time every other minute somebody that upsets the apple cart is a racist. kinda keep people from looking at the truth if you ask me,
whatever said truth is.

I'm astonished that we needed a thread B to discuss the discussion ongoing in thread A.

I'll bite though. I personally, could give a rat's a# if the man is a racist or not. Hell, he might actually have been making comments in an effort to
head off any claims that he was a racist and he just came off sounding a bit.. off.

I saw him cradling a dead calf today and trying to garner sympathy from the masses about how the calf had died because it didn't have it's "mama." I
find that to be laughable considering ranchers aren't exactly raising pets are they? Sooner or later "mama" was going off to the slaughter house and
for that matter, so was the calf.

Seems to me that Mr. Bundy has a definite penchant for theatrics. To pick up where I left off in thread A:

What's really significant is that he's been stealing from the public to subsidize his private enterprise and that he's used dubious, unsubstantiated
and frankly, irrelevant claims in conjunction with his inconsequential views of the U.S. Government to incite a bunch of self-styled revolutionary
protectors of freedom to the brink of a potential massacre. To what end? So that he can use threats of violence and public spectacle to pervert the
fair application of the rule of law to obtain even MORE differential treatment?

This is the culmination of 20 years of refusal to pay a dollar or two per a month per unit to feed his product, a product he sells for a considerable
amount, and the desperation move of injecting an insane amount of histrionics to justify his belief that he shouldn't have to pay what any other
rancher is obligated to pay to use public land for fattening up his very profitable product.

Let me put it to you this way:

What if I decided that for profit, I was going to cut up all of the grass in this same public land where he FREE GRAZES his cattle and sell it as sod,
completely disregarding the fact that my ownership of the land was about a 1/330,000,000th of a share and without any consideration for what any of
the other 330,000,000 million owners might have to say?

To take this analogy even further, what if my fellow Americans said, "Sure! just pay us about 7.5% of what it's worth!" (Estimates are it costs
about $18 bucks a month to graze a cow on private land, the BLM & FS charge about $1.35 a month).

Then I said, "No take a hike, I will pay you $0 a month because I don't believe that I should have to and if you don't like it, I'm going to call
it a 'Range War' and get a bunch of people out here with guns to make sure you won't have any legal recourse."

How many people are going to rush out to support my sod business? What if I wear a cowboy hat and spew my opinions? No takers?

I don't think your going to get much sod out of the desert, but in any case, I see what your saying. What you are missing is that the government
escalated this from the beginning. Did they need to have snipers? No. Guess what. The snipers were there first.

This is an argument of whether the government has the right to enforce simple things with gunpoint. If he owes money is for him to debate in court.
As he has been doing for years. The matter that brings people with guns, is the fact that the BLM has a history of doing things like this for the
wrong reasons, and that they tried using a show of force to make him pay a stupid grazing fee.

Stop using so much brain power to complicate things with big words, and get to the root of the issue.

There was even a member of his personal guard who happens to be black, that stood up and said its absurd people are making the claim he is
racist. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I saw that interview. The "journalist" kept trying to call it a fact that Bundy was a racist for using the word 'negro' and the bodyguard
just kept denying it. He knew him all his life and never treated him with anything but respect and dignity.

The news casters back in the studio kept shaking their heads that Bundy just didn't realize he was "being racist". Obvious they were painting
their agendized portrait despite anything anyone told them. Like they do with all their reporting lately.

Actually, it isn't mama who goes off to slaughter. She's old and tough. It's the calf who goes off after a weaning and about a year or so of
finishing. Mama gets bred again to have a new calf. She's breeding stock.

Won't even quote you because most of it wasn't worth the bandwidth the first time around. What's your view on what Charlie Rangel did? Didn't claim
income on rental properties and obtained subsidized housing illegitimately, all costing the taxpayers their due. He got a slap on the wrist. Did you
flap your gums when he was exposed or did you do as I suspect and claim it was a witch hunt? Or maybe you just conveniently stayed silent?

Please spare us your feigned consternation. There's billions scammed from the welfare system, the social security system and medicaid system every
year. Billions. Get consternate about those. Bundy is a productive contributor to society. he's a positive, not a negative. He's the salt of the
Earth. There's lots of scum out there to get your panties in a wad over.

Why should I bother respond to comments that have nothing to do with my post? Clean it up if you want to be taken seriously.

I did read your post, and it seems to me that you are operating on the assumption that what you perceive to be Mr. Bundy's bigotry is somehow
relevant and makes the problem of the Federal response somehow justified.

"See? The BLM was perfectly justified to round up his cattle and shoot them because the man is just a racist."

That is the problem. His personal views on race have nothing to do with this. There are no people involved. Only cattle and tortoises. Bringing this
up is only an attempt to assassinate his character so that they can isolate him and move in and finish what they've started, and you are falling for
it just like a good little programmed citizen.

Now if there was some kind of colony of minorities out there and Bundy were driving his cattle over their homesteads ... maybe his perceived views
might be relevant.

This all seems to me to be a bad attempt at poisoning the well against Cliven Bundy, wherever you stand on the BLM and grazing issue, the man's
opinions on race are completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Although if you read xuenchen's post you'll see that he's not racist, he just uses old "evil" words rather than PC newspeak.

Lets be honest, no-one who listens to msm is going to hear anything beyond "negro" and assume he's one of the bad guys, sadly.

Choice of words is apparently more important than the fact that he was (falteringly) trying to empathise with the problems others than himself are
facing right now.

This all seems to me to be a bad attempt at poisoning the well against Cliven Bundy, wherever you stand on the BLM and grazing issue, the man's
opinions on race are completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Although if you read xuenchen's post you'll see that he's not racist, he just uses old "evil" words rather than PC newspeak.

Lets be honest, no-one who listens to msm is going to hear anything beyond "negro" and assume he's one of the bad guys, sadly.

Choice of words is apparently more important than the fact that he was (falteringly) trying to empathise with the problems others than himself are
facing right now.

There's something wrong with negro? Maybe someone should inform "The United Negro College Fund people. I know the NAACP
are way behind on "colored people".

The guy is old. Old people talk like that. His intentions are blatantly obvious in the longer clip. Stop trying to make him sound like mr. evil.
Sure he isn't politically correct, AT ALL, but he is not a racist. There was even a member of his personal guard who happens to be black, that stood
up and said its absurd people are making the claim he is racist.

Buster, don't take this personally, but stop being so cynical.

I have some sympathy with that. Bundy may have been wrong in his general assessment about black people living on estates, and he also talked about
Mexicans who came as illegal into the US. There was nothing derogatory about the people themselves. Like he said, we should welcome people into our
homes..like they are people, same as the rest of the plebs. The man is a worker, a manager, he is also a pleb. He certainly isn't a bigot as in
racist, that would be very unfair in the context in which he was speaking. In some ways, you can understand that what he is saying is that he is
pretty lucky, despite his spat with a totalitarian government style, who's motivation is suspect in general, and already stated as being suspect and
corrupt at a local level by a judge.

I haven't weighed in to much on this whole scandal just because of what you described would happen.
I agree with everything you said and I find it is happening more and more on many threads not just ones related to this issue.
I feel like I come across more and more posters quoting MSM talking points word for word.
I notice it's not just coming from newer members but members who should really know better from what I've seen from their past posts. It makes me
highly suspicious.
I feel like there is a huge campaign of misinformation and outright lies and being pushed and pushed hard all over the internet, TV,magazines and
every other possible form of media out there. Something is a foot.

Remember people...anyone is a potential agent.
Inside the matrix....they are everyone.....and no one.

Won't even quote you because most of it wasn't worth the bandwidth the first time around. What's your view on what Charlie Rangel did? Didn't claim
income on rental properties and obtained subsidized housing illegitimately, all costing the taxpayers their due. He got a slap on the wrist. Did you
flap your gums when he was exposed or did you do as I suspect and claim it was a witch hunt? Or maybe you just conveniently stayed silent?

Please spare us your feigned consternation. There's billions scammed from the welfare system, the social security system and medicaid system every
year. Billions. Get consternate about those. Bundy is a productive contributor to society. he's a positive, not a negative. He's the salt of the
Earth. There's lots of scum out there to get your panties in a wad over.

Please spare me your undeserved righteous indignation. F# Charlie Rangel, you're obviously caught up on some partisan BS. As usual, "but but but what
about this guy?" Have trouble discussing anything with political implications without engaging in tired tit for tat?

I notice that you also chose to mention three social welfare programs because once again, you're incapable of divorcing your opinion of this situation
from your political leanings.

If you've been following my posts in the first thread, I actually pointed out how much this reminds of of the billions of dollars the oil industry and
mining companies reap improperly from government subsidies in the form of the Percent Depletion Allowance, particularly when they're pulling their
product out of the ground that that they don't own for free via the General Mining Act of 1872.

In essence, they are allowed to deduct from their taxable income a set percentage of the diminished value of the land bearing the resource they're
harvesting, even if it's public land. There was legislation in 2007 and 2009 to put an end to this that died on the vine because big business spends
tens of millions of dollars a year in lobbying to make keep it in place.

You want to talk about Medicare fraud? The king of Medicare fraud is Rick Scott. His company, Columbia/HCA was fined the largest fine in U.S. History
($600 million) for defrauding the government out of what some estimates put at a billion or more. He's the Governor of Florida.

Maybe you'd like to talk about how Georgia Pacific gets subsidization in the form of roads for it's logging activities? How about the thousands of
people who get farm subsidies for lands that haven't got any vegetation beyond a finely manicured lawn and impeccably tasteful shrubbery.

"He's the salt of the Earth."

Talk about gum flapping. Lots of aholes could be described as "salt of the Earth." Don't fret the bandwidth you're expending on my posts, it's obvious
you're not putting it to good use elsewhere.

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