I wanted to update this thread. The pickle is running and seems fantastic. I'm not sure who all to thank, but thank you. The VFD for the big drill press is on the way. I think we need to fish or cut bait on the kiln. It's been sitting for an awfully long time, and is much worse shape then when we got it, thoughts?

the kiln, like so many projects, languishes whilst waiting for someone to do the DO part of do-ocracy. last i knew, all it needs is a new thermocouple/thermistor, and possibly a driver board that an arduino is probably overkill for, and a new steel band wrapped around the refractroy cement top, with a hinge added. in an ideal world it'd get some insulating refractory cement added to the lid. if only we knew some electronics savvy folks or folks who could bend and weld metal.....

it's had several proposals, including making it a working ceramics, or glass slumping or glass/metal annealing kiln, (which to be frank at least every other week a new guest gets REALLY excited about the possibility of working with one of those) or turning it into an induction furnace, or simply getting rid of it.

personally, i think having the ability to get stuff pretty damn hot in a controlled and maintainable fashion would be an awesome utility for the space to have, and realistically would probably generate a few new members. we just need someone to take point on it.

Alright then. Temporarily ignoring the length of time it has already been sitting and waiting for someone to take point on it, I suggest we set a deadline, perhaps 30 days out, and if no progress has been made, it gets a parking ticket.

a parking ticket is not a solution to the percieved problem. i believe that it's tcm owned, so shop mgmt tagging it is absurd. iirc an attempt to sell it on craigslist failed.

we're not so hurting for space that we can't afford the 9sqft that it takes up, and it's a potentially great tool that folks are interested in.

personally i'd love to see the vacuformers up and running first, one needs some minor framing done, i don't knwo where they stand on power.

maybe we want to do something like set a monthly shop group repair budget of $100, and have someone coordinate a weekly 8-10pm during open house "shop project" which could be cast the new piece for the big sander, or repair the kiln. jeff and jude could prioritze things overall, and area managers or an individual could be given point for each week's project.

The way I see it, I don't want to do any tool improvement due to numerous times people bitching about what was done. Case in point, Scott and I cleaned up the vacuform machine and were making plans on getting it working. Because of several rude comments saying we were idiots, we walked away from it and were later told it was someones personal equipment. all the hard work gone into organizing the shop is not working and is really pissing some people off.

smittex wrote:The way I see it, I don't want to do any tool improvement due to numerous times people bitching about what was done. Case in point, Scott and I cleaned up the vacuform machine and were making plans on getting it working. Because of several rude comments saying we were idiots, we walked away from it and were later told it was someones personal equipment. all the hard work gone into organizing the shop is not working and is really pissing some people off.

Yeah, unfortunately maker spaces that are open to all attract people who are "experts" on many more things than they have time to do, or have an interest in helping with. My approach is to completely ignore what people say, unless I've witnessed positive efforts that support the words. Ownership is a bit different, but anything that's in the space and needs repair / clean-up is fair game unless very clearly marked as a hands off personal project. I think that many things are there for the group to use and may need repair and expertise that the owner doesn't have, or requires time and energy the owner doesn't have. I'm quite sure that is the case with the vacuum former, you are speaking of.

I'm saddened to hear your experience with the vacuum former, and would suggest that while it's unfortunate, you need to work through the expert advice you'll receive. TC Maker is a do-ocracy. We need members to take the lead on projects as you did. When you get advice, I would recommend, putting that person on the spot as publicly as possible, and asking "OK, when will you be coming in to help with that suggestion, or purchasing the item / tool / service etc needed to do it your way?", and when they predictably demur, you can disregard them, and they'll understand they've been called on their BS.

I'm not saying everyone giving expert advice is wrong or obstructionist, but I'll take active work on a valuable project over talk any day. I do things during my day job that I think I'm pretty good at, but at the HF I try hard to not comment negatively on efforts I might do differently, that I'm not prepared to be actively involved in.

there's also a decent amount of pragmatism necessary, and appropriately filtering that, as well as playing well with others.

i.e. the right/best practice way to so something is almost always ideal, and talking about that can be a lot of fun, but if you're pop riviting a safety plate onto something with dubious structure, it may not matter that it's not welded on, primed and painted to match. making sure you're providing maintence access is a critical bit that a passing by bit of advice probably wants to be followed. likewise, if someone tells you you're doing something that will damage a tool or is dangerous, and you don't understand exactly why, they're probably right, ask them to explain it to you. if you know you're doing something that could do damage, ponder if it's excellent to be doing so.

we are a community of folks who like to learn and do on our own, and share our expierences. understanding when to offer and listen to advice is something that all of us (myself included) need to work on.

in regard to the brown vacuformer, rude comments aren't cool, but thanks for taking initative on it. iirc it belonged to bild and had a project invitiation tag on it requesting that workers contact him and he'd track what it needed, and last i spoke with him, all it needed was a structure to support the heating and plastic support elements. if the invite is gone, see if his info is on the gold sculpture by the can crusher.

As far as the big vacuformer goes, and I bring this up as an example, Bryan and I started on it after it had sat, untouched, for some number of months. I didn't care about certain other members' comments as we worked on it -- after all we were the ones who were actually trying to get something done. I left a couple of sheets of paper taped to it, describing our thinking as to next steps, and contact info.

The next Wednesday night those sheets were gone, replaced by "this is so-and-so's project, don't touch."

That ended my interest in taking on the vacuformer. And there it sits, in exactly the state we left it in; as far as I can see so-and-so haven't touched it.

The big vacuformer, and the kiln, and probably a half-dozen other things, need either to be put into working order or removed from the space. They're not going to get done if it's left to the "do-ocracy." The kiln, being TCM equipment, needs a specified project lead who'll be responsible for getting it done. The vacuformer I believe is Bil's, in which case he either needs to commit to getting it going, delegate someone who'll commit to getting it going, or take it back.

In any case the projects should be listed somewhere -- what's being worked on, who's the project lead, contact info. That way anyone who's interested in helping knows how to get involved. (What a great topic to cover at a monthly membership meeting!)