Resilience fixed the stupidity of pve players rampaging battlegrounds and certain arena bracket. Pvp power may finally have gotten rid of those annoying pve items that outpower earned pvp items. If they would stop kicking warriors as if they are rabid dogs and use their amazing fixes on these healers that has a tad too much power, id be a happy tauren. I got 1 or 2 suggestions, give the pvp trinket-proc an immunity from cc for 3 seconds after used or less, i dont care. Leaping from 1 full stun into another to try and avoid a clean kill..... meeh. Stunned in the middle of a charge, and stunned upon that stun without the diminishing returns kicking in.... blurf the CC is ravaging this game alongside broken healers. Rant end tho.

There is no reason in resilience beyond trying to make fights go much longer, irritating and impossible to use gear from pve in pvp and gear from pvp in pve.
Blizz should revert pvp into vanilla state, it was perfect those days. Everything people cry out, about FOTM classes, impossible to kill healers and shit, its all the fault of lots of resilience. Lots of CC added is also fault of resilience. Resilience is unneeded crap.

I take you're trolling, but in case you forgot how it went back then.
I were a warlock walking the world with t1 and t2-gear. Mostly t1 for pvp. with soul link i had effectiviely 8000 health, when most classes had around 4000. i could endlessly fear people, while i pulled a soulfire, shadowbolt and soul burn on them, which reduced them to 1/4th of their health.
The reason i liked to walk the world were that i could solokill the groups trying to gank me.
Really? Vanilla state were balanced?

Originally Posted by Solonor

Resilience fixed the stupidity of pve players rampaging battlegrounds and certain arena bracket. Pvp power may finally have gotten rid of those annoying pve items that outpower earned pvp items. If they would stop kicking warriors as if they are rabid dogs and use their amazing fixes on these healers that has a tad too much power, id be a happy tauren. I got 1 or 2 suggestions, give the pvp trinket-proc an immunity from cc for 3 seconds after used or less, i dont care. Leaping from 1 full stun into another to try and avoid a clean kill..... meeh. Stunned in the middle of a charge, and stunned upon that stun without the diminishing returns kicking in.... blurf the CC is ravaging this game alongside broken healers. Rant end tho.

Maybe healers are fine if they had less god damn cc?

Blizzard said they want to nerf healers, when they got the burst under control. But to that day, they get to be pretty strong.
Druids even get a 2 second longer cyclone, from their tiergloves from 5.2, on top of overall more healing, so your wish for less CC to them seems overlooked.
The less manacost is nice too, since it will make it harder to OOM them.

Anyway. I'm looking forward to how pvp is in next patch.
Right now i like it on both lock and DK. Probably more in next patch.

Blizzard said they want to nerf healers, when they got the burst under control. But to that day, they get to be pretty strong.
Druids even get a 2 second longer cyclone, from their tiergloves from 5.2, on top of overall more healing, so your wish for less CC to them seems overlooked.
The less manacost is nice too, since it will make it harder to OOM them.

Anyway. I'm looking forward to how pvp is in next patch.
Right now i like it on both lock and DK. Probably more in next patch.

What thell are you talking about? They already nerfed healers, twice! What they didn't do was getting the burst under control, aside from making it impossible for warriors to just one shot people as they were able to do. Healers first got 15% and then another 15% healing debuff putting battle fatigue at 30% less healing in PvP.
How the hell do you expect healers to be nerfed again when there is an absurd ammount of CC and burst flying around?

druid complaining about being trained, sorry but you have no right. if played properly, you can avoid any type of cc's and swaps to you

Wait... what? Are you high right now?

First of all, druids are by far the most swap-sensitive healers in the game. This is common knowledge.
Second. How does a druid avoid ANY type of CC? Restodruids can break roots/snares by wasting globals.
They can also avoid incoming hardcasted polymorphs by dropping everything they are doing and shapeshift.
Thats it. How does a restodruid avoid all other CC more effective than other healers?

Restodruids are heavily dependent on being babysit by the team more than any other healer right now.

This had to be pointed out. It grinds my gears when ignorant people talk trash and spreads false information.

The solution to all this burst problems is really easy. Reduce all damage AND healing in PvP by the same percentages (of course some classes might need specific fixes to certain abilities). It will take longer to kill someone, but also longer to heal someone. You will generally have more time to do things before you get killed.

It's easy to understand with a simple example. If you can get killed in 5 seconds, and during those 5 seconds you are also stunned. It is obvious that something is wrong with the damage. Now let's say you would reduce damage (and healing) in PvP by 50%. Then you would be stunned 5 seconds, and after the stun is over you would still have half of your health. You then have 5 seconds left to fight back, to heal, to run, to cc, ...

It just comes down to tune it so that the 'average lifetime' of a player is in a range that feels comforable to play with in PvP.

Are we talking just BGs, group BGs, or Arenas? It kind of depends for one, if you are doing Arena then people you face will be in similar gear and have high PVP Power, which nullifies some of the Resilience. I can't help much here I play DK with decent gear and just can't seem to figure out Arenas that well.

If in BGs then try to stay away or hide in the middle of a group when healing. If you are getting focussed like crazy and no one is helping, tell them to try and get people off of you, so you can heal them. I played Paladin healer for a while and that wasn't bad, but cannot comment on Druid. I only did PVE Druid heals.

Originally Posted by Moon Blade

There's nothing for casuals to do, beyond pretend they are raiders in LFR.

Funny how people have such different experiences. I think healers are ridiculously overpowered in general, and get more so every expansion.

I can say without a doubt that as a Holy Paladin I am not nearly as powerful as at the end of Cataclysm in relation to other players/classes. I am much more affected by CC's and I have fewer instant heals to throw in between CC's and I can get burst down faster now. I am locked down longer and can't wait out the CC chains like I once could.

Damage is mind blowing on PTR right now but resilience isn't getting increased enough to compensate. I suspect 5.2 could be even more imbalanced than live with rogues having insane burst, good defense cooldowns and retarded amounts of CC along with a host of other classes looking to be just as insane.

Damage is mind blowing on PTR right now but resilience isn't getting increased enough to compensate. I suspect 5.2 could be even more imbalanced than live with rogues having insane burst, good defense cooldowns and retarded amounts of CC along with a host of other classes looking to be just as insane.

Also.. they just buffed almost all classes damage abilities. This looks like it will be really ugly :/

I though PvP was going down this expansion, and I personally felt that the burst of many champions were way too high. Now after watching a few movies, about different classes, I had a look at Reckful's Warrior in a 3s match, it takes their team 9 mins to bring a person down in 3s, so honestly I don't consider the burst too high when you're geared, and you have good teammates.

I have 62,5% resilience now. People of my class and spec in the best gear possible have 67,5%. I get blown up with no chance to the point that it's almost laughable by people in Malevolent Elite. I could expect to have around 67,5% if I could somehow get the best gear possible tomorrow. This is an increase in effective health of around 136k. Sounds like a lot, maybe, but in today's amount of burst, especially what a Warrior can put out with his super-skill swifty macro, it's 1 more hit from an ability. And I'd get that from going from half 1/1 half 0/1 Dreadful to 2/2 Malevolent Elite.

Tell me why people bother to play healers, again? Or better yet, convince me not to abandon any healer that isn't a shaman or paladin?

Firstly, elite gear is exactly the same in stats as non elite. if you can't reach 2.2k, then the only difference between your gear and someone that can, is the weapon.

Honestly, i think with your gear level, you shouldn't have much trouble surviving against a single warrior (as retarded as they are right now). A druid doesn't just tank damage as others have said, like a paladin can. You have amazing mobility, and should be able to keep him off you most of the time.

But in general, damage and burst in pvp is the highest i've seen since i started playing (early BC). it does make is very frustrating sometimes. as an example, my new and undergeared (55% resil) enh shaman died 100% to 0 in a warbringer stun the other day, against a warrior and DK. that's a new record for me. even when i was pvping in late cata on my ZERO resil boomkin.

What thell are you talking about? They already nerfed healers, twice! What they didn't do was getting the burst under control, aside from making it impossible for warriors to just one shot people as they were able to do. Healers first got 15% and then another 15% healing debuff putting battle fatigue at 30% less healing in PvP.
How the hell do you expect healers to be nerfed again when there is an absurd ammount of CC and burst flying around?

To quote you:
what the hell are you talking about?
I said what they said. Please try to read it again, instead of raging at me :P

And yet they are still too strong. I'm starting to think diminishing returns for heals might become a necessity in PvP.

Either that or vastly nuke the effectiveness of instant cast heals and absorbs so healers actually become interruptable.

Compared to tbc or even to wotlk, theres just too much instant heals. And the problem is, it is needed, the amount of burst certain classes capable of doing makes it very needed, just the problem is, when big burst cds usually got 1-2min cds, the instant heals got max 5-15sec :\

The entire game needs to be redesigned, if they want to balance pvp, which won't happen, so i don't see it becoming anytime better in the close future.

Compared to tbc or even to wotlk, theres just too much instant heals. And the problem is, it is needed, the amount of burst certain classes capable of doing makes it very needed, just the problem is, when big burst cds usually got 1-2min cds, the instant heals got max 5-15sec :\

The entire game needs to be redesigned, if they want to balance pvp, which won't happen, so i don't see it becoming anytime better in the close future.

It's entirely concievable that PvP may never be 'balanced' while the game lasts, because whatever people say it is in fact a PvE game with PvP as an afterthought.

The critical issue is this; Blizzard refuses to delineate the PvP and PvE aspects of the game enough to enable them to balance one without upsetting the other. Their reasoning is that 'they don't want to have to have people learn a new rotation/spec/whatever just for PvP' - reasoning I find very specious. As we saw with how Exorcism and to a lesser extent Deep Freeze used to be, they are more than capable of making spells vary between PvP and PvE. Aside from that, there are a few things they can do:

- Use the Challenge Mode stat scaling technology to bring all player stats to a certain level. PvP gear becomes statless vanity items.
- Bring baseline resistance to player damage up to a flat percentage, eliminate Resilience and PvP power. This, in combination with the above, removes the gear disparity.
- Make Every Man for Himself a baseline ability for all races, perhaps lowering the cooldown to 45 seconds.
- Reduce the effectiveness of instant cast spells and abilities, forcing casters to actually cast again during PvP.
- Put a cast time on AoE CC.

I do just fine on a full honor gear no weapon Disc priest, 1700 in 2s last week, start meeting 2.2 geared people @ 1600...although i have been ~2400 as priest before, gear should mean i get raped, and i don't for the most part.

---------- Post added 2013-02-21 at 12:26 AM ----------

Originally Posted by vryer

Expect a hotfix 2-3 weeks into the season.

They shouldn't do that though, they should leave it how EVERY "pro" player was saying it was like 2 weeks ago, was watching hydra nad reckfuls streams and they were making the point that PTR then was more balanced than Now, blizz have a habbit of overly buffing for silly reasons and breaking a game, their reason for buffing frost DK by alot was "we buffed unholy and they were out damaging frost, so we buffed frost" (it's on the main page cba to source it too tired) That's a poor design method imo!

Originally Posted by Makamoka

You not gamer, you go play your boring "Real life" with crappy graphics'n stuff! You cant even do Quests, dungeons and BGs in "IRL" :s