Your typical DSL user doesn't have enough bandwidth available to even view a 1080p60 video. ATSC broadcast HDTV is just 1080i or 720p60. You're really pushing for an extreme niche. The $$$$ boxes that ESPN uses to stream their remote sports coverage get very good reviews and are capable of 1080p60. You might look at some of those. (Incidentally, they use Intel QuickSync.)

JustAnEngineer wrote:Your typical DSL user doesn't have enough bandwidth available to even view a 1080p60 video. ATSC broadcast HDTV is just 1080i or 720p60. You're really pushing for an extreme niche. The $$$$ boxes that ESPN uses to stream their remote sports coverage get very good reviews and are capable of 1080p60. You might look at some of those. (Incidentally, they use Intel QuickSync.)

Too expensive.

Anyway, as I said earlier in the thread (lots of long posts; understandable if you missed it or forgot), I'm not trying to stream video over the internet; I just want to stream it to disk.

JustAnEngineer wrote:Just because someone doesn't voice agreement with the unsubstantiated opinions that you have posted does not mean that they have not read the words.

That's pretty damn rude, you know? I didn't post one thing that was an "unsubstantiated opinion", and you were posting off-topic in regards to my posts; I thought you might not have realized that I'm not talking about streaming over the internet, which would only happen if you 1) didn't read/understand my post, or 2) did read/understand it and forgot, or got confused. I don't care if you or anyone else agrees with me or not; I don't see why you even brought that up! I wasn't posting opinions at all!

You really need to chill out, Mr. Defensive. Nobody's stating or implying you're falling down on the job.

JAE including the part where I mentioned a capture PC which would be built in addition to the primary PC in order to dowgrade parts? I don't know why you'd suggest a 1000 system off the cuff, when that' essentially what a capture PC is. I also mentioned bandwidth restrictions a bit back. If you don't catch bits and pieces of the conversation I can understand that, but for awhile there we weren't even on the same page when I was talking about streaming and you didn't think it would effect hardware requirements at all.

You really don't need to utilize Quicksync at all. A four core processor, such as the AMD 640 can handle encoding for a capture PC. The only reason Quicksync is notable is because it offloads the encoding process on the primary PC, if you completely remove it from the loop there is no reason to use Quicksync or the AMD/Nvidia equivalent. Capture PCs can be built pretty cheap, just the most expensive part is the capture card.

The notable difference between the Live Gamer HD and other capture cards is it does hardware offloading. If we were just looking at capture cards, there are a lot of alternatives, but they don't do hardware offload. That hardware offloading only works with Xsplit though and Xsplit is a huge resource gobbler.

60fps doesn't use much more bandwidth then 30fps, you see the big increase in bandwidth and processor usage when you switch between resolutions. It's also entirely possible to stream 1080p@60 for DSL users. That of course depends on what is being encoded (say a moba instead of a FPS) and the encoder strength. Once again most people use "Veryfast", but there are other encoding presets, they also require significantly more processing power to use. I was able to stream Simcity at 1080p@60 with my 3100 bit rate. It entirely depends on the content being streamed and the encoding process. There isn't a set rate for a 1080p video or 1080p@60...

On a side note, you know I got my new PSU in today and I'm stressing it right now using p95 and furmark. All my cores are pegged, yet windows still operates very fluidly... I think that's a testament of just how well multithreading works on Vishera. I can watch videos without interruption and basically use my computer as per normal. You don't even notice it running. I hadn't noticed that before, but I remember that isn't normally the case. My 3570k had a bit of slowdowns and jitter here and there while running p95 (if someone can confirm this it'd be great).

This would actually make for a interesting benchmark(!). Playing games while running prime95 in the background, which would take into account how well a processor deals with completely saturated workloads. Holy crap. Someone flag down Damage.

May I suggest waiting three or four weeks for a Core i5-4670K and a Z87 LGA1150 micro-ATX motherboard? If you have to have a PC before then and you're near a Micro Center, you can get a great combination deal with the Core i5-3570K and the ASRock Z77 Pro4-M motherboard. If you go with ATX, the Asus P8Z77-V LK is a good motherboard for a reasonable price even before the terrific bundle from Micro Center.

Undoubtedly some fanatic is going to tell you that you need a super-powerful graphics card (or even an SLI/Crossfire package), but I'm going to suggest that if the purpose of this second PC is not gaming, you may want to stick with Haswell's integrated graphics.

JustAnEngineer wrote:MayI suggest waiting three or four weeks for a Core i5-4670K and a Z87 LGA1150 micro-ATX motherboard? If you have to have a PC before then and you're near a Micro Center, you can get a great combination deal with the Core i5-3570K and the ASRock Z77 Pro4-M motherboard. If you go with ATX, the Asus P8Z77-V LK is a good motherboard for a reasonable price even before the terrific bundle from Micro Center.

Pertaining to this power supply on my main build, can this be a HX650? I might add another graphics card via SLI in the future, just want to know if I can pull off a 650w instead of the 850 if I decide to go that route. Noob question but I need an answer. Also is there some method to figuring out the total power usage of a build so I know how to select the proper PSU in the future? How does that work?

The 650 is sufficient for two cards unless they're crazily power hungry. Two GeForce GTX670 cards would be just fine. You could still spend less than $170 and get a good quality PSU.$130 -13 code "SAIR10" -10MIR Corsair HX750 (62 A @ +12V)$110 -16½ code "EMCXRWX96" SeaSonic SSR-650RM (54 A @ +12V)$120 -20MIR Corsair HX650 (54 A @ +12V)The SeaSonic unit looks like a bargain.

Even power supply calculators tend to be conservative because there are so many PSUs where the marketing department has claimed capabilities that the hardware cannot actually match.

I talked with Ingenious the other night, I'm unsure if you were talking about a 'streaming pc' as in it would be a capture PC?

If that's the case it doesn't need to be powerful at all. A Capture PC, which would be a computer built in addition to your normal PC would just need to handle encoding. A modern four core processor should be sufficient, such as the AMD 640. It doesn't need a dedicated video card, a 450w PSU name brand PSU, 4 gigs of memory, a good capture card. You could probably look for a micro-atx or mini-itx motherboard and a case that fits it (depending on if you ever want to expand it) and then a 3TB HD for saving videos on and what not.

Perhaps I'm being a bit too vague. I'll have to put together a decent capture PC. The idea being you can cut down on a lot of the costs with the main PC buy purchasing a capture PC in addition to the primary PC. This sort of build wouldn't be extravagant and it would be built for the role of simply capturing video and allowing you to do a bit of editing on it while live streaming. Then the primary PC could be cut down to a typical gaming PC.

So you budget the capture PC first as it's a minimal build, then you use the remainder for a primary PC. It may not even cost $500.

If you have a duel monitor setup on your primary PC you can simply remote desktop into your streaming PC without even needing to connect a monitor. Otherwise there are plenty of panels on Newegg, you could pick a cheap one with good reviews.

As JAE said, if you're going to purchase a capture PC and change your build based on that, waiting a couple more weeks for Haswell wouldn't be a bad idea. If you purchased a hex core that'd be different as almost nothing will change with hex cores for awhile. Just some more things to think about.

Bensam123 wrote:I talked with Ingenious the other night, I'm unsure if you were talking about a 'streaming pc' as in it would be a capture PC?

I'm trying to build a separate PC for streaming as well as simply capturing gameplay. I may be completely off base here but my intention is to run something like OBS on the stream build and let it handle the actual act of streaming while I play on my main build. That way I'm not stressing the CPU by running the game, a browser, AND the streaming software. I don't know if that sounds ridiculous, that's just what I've taken away from talking with people.

As for the capture aspect of it I'm looking at getting an elgato (USB cap device) and the AverMedia Live Game HD cap card for the PC. Just for recording console games/streaming console games.

Bensam123 wrote:I talked with Ingenious the other night, I'm unsure if you were talking about a 'streaming pc' as in it would be a capture PC?

I'm trying to build a separate PC for streaming as well as simply capturing gameplay. I may be completely off base here but my intention is to run something like OBS on the stream build and let it handle the actual act of streaming while I play on my main build. That way I'm not stressing the CPU by running the game, a browser, AND the streaming software. I don't know if that sounds ridiculous, that's just what I've taken away from talking with people.

As for the capture aspect of it I'm looking at getting an elgato (USB cap device) and the AverMedia Live Game HD cap card for the PC. Just for recording console games/streaming console games.

HOLD UP! Maybe I was just too thick to realize this before but if I spend the dough for a 6 core i7-3930k do I need a separate stream PC at all? Can the 3930K handle it by itself?

Bensam123 wrote:I talked with Ingenious the other night, I'm unsure if you were talking about a 'streaming pc' as in it would be a capture PC?

I'm trying to build a separate PC for streaming as well as simply capturing gameplay. I may be completely off base here but my intention is to run something like OBS on the stream build and let it handle the actual act of streaming while I play on my main build. That way I'm not stressing the CPU by running the game, a browser, AND the streaming software. I don't know if that sounds ridiculous, that's just what I've taken away from talking with people.

As for the capture aspect of it I'm looking at getting an elgato (USB cap device) and the AverMedia Live Game HD cap card for the PC. Just for recording console games/streaming console games.

HOLD UP! Maybe I was just too thick to realize this before but if I spend the dough for a 6 core i7-3930k do I need a separate stream PC at all? Can the 3930K handle it by itself?

The 3930K can do whatever you want, including streaming. Your weak spot is in the internet connection, not the CPU.

Bandwidth would be a limitation of streaming, but I think that's independent of his build. A hex core gives more options as far as bandwidth efficiency goes too. He can increase the encoder preset to use bandwidth more efficiently, but that results in higher CPU utilization.

A $227+ Haswell Core i5-4670K might do well for your capture PC. Although this is $100 more than you need to spend on a processor, Haswell's superior graphics capability should translate into improved QuickSync performance compared to Ivy Bridge. I expect that QuickSync support will matter to your video manipulations in the future.

I don't know why you would need both the USB capture device and a PCIe capture card.

JustAnEngineer wrote:I don't know why you would need both the USB capture device and a PCIe capture card.

The only personal experience I've had with a capture device was an AverMedia Game Capture HD which was a huge pain to use. Tons of issues getting it to start/stop recording and it would just lock up. The AverMedia Live Gamer HD cap card though is one of the highest recommended so despite my previous encounters with the company I thought I'd go with that option anyway. As a backup though I'm looking at the elgato USB device.

Capture PCs don't actually need a whole lot of power... All it has to do is encode the video as well as dealing with a little bit of video work (like organizing scenes). Normal video editing you could just do on your primary PC. Essentially what your $100 slingbox is, only it's not as cheap and it gives you a lot more flexibility.

You could get a better processor and then crank up the encoder preset, but I really think that starts pushing it when you want a cheap PC to do one task. You can always throw more money at things, that doesn't necessarily mean it'll give back what you put into it though.

Your build looks good otherwise. If you want to cut down the price, I'm sure we could find other options. Feel free to drop by my stream again if you have questions. I'm always up for a good conversation.

Whilst I can appreciate that a hex core or AMD 8-'core' option will be better for a single-PC gaming & streaming solution, it's hard to ignore that the Sandy Bridge-E and it's socket 2011 platform are from 2011.

Buying tech that old, this close to Haswell's lauch seems like shooting your own foot.

Some people ask me why I have always enclosed my signature in spoiler tags; There is a good reason for that, but I can't elaborate without giving away the plot twist.

Chrispy_ wrote:Whilst I can appreciate that a hex core or AMD 8-'core' option will be better for a single-PC gaming & streaming solution, it's hard to ignore that the Sandy Bridge-E and it's socket 2011 platform are from 2011.

Buying tech that old, this close to Haswell's lauch seems like shooting your own foot.

That's been in the back of my mind this whole time. I've changed my mind at least half a dozen times in the last two months regarding exactly what I want. I'm trying wait things out at this point. Once Haswell launches though I'll weigh my options, I just can't help tinkering with what's currently available. Trying to gain knowledge.

Chrispy_ wrote:Whilst I can appreciate that a hex core or AMD 8-'core' option will be better for a single-PC gaming & streaming solution, it's hard to ignore that the Sandy Bridge-E and it's socket 2011 platform are from 2011.

Buying tech that old, this close to Haswell's lauch seems like shooting your own foot.

That's been in the back of my mind this whole time. I've changed my mind at least half a dozen times in the last two months regarding exactly what I want. I'm trying wait things out at this point. Once Haswell launches though I'll weigh my options, I just can't help tinkering with what's currently available. Trying to gain knowledge.

You're doing it right, and your wracking a few enthusiasts brains in the process- always a good thing. Everybody learns!

Yup... I think this thread in general has a good direction as some people are unfamiliar with streaming and the required computational power for it. Hopefully TR will do some streaming benchmarks when Haswell comes out too, that could definitely help add some substance to this thread and address some questions.

It's unfortunate that there is no real word on when IB-E will come out besides later this year though... I'm pretty sure a mainstream haswell processor still wont hold a candle to a SB hex core in terms of raw computational power, but it may surprise. It's always an option of building a capture PC and then a haswell system too.

Bensam123 wrote:It's unfortunate that there is no real word on when IB-E will come out besides later this year though... I'm pretty sure a mainstream haswell processor still wont hold a candle to a SB hex core in terms of raw computational power, but it may surprise. It's always an option of building a capture PC and then a haswell system too.

I presume there are engineering samples in the hand of the vendors. As my X79 board just received a firmware update with what appears to be IB-E microcode.

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