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High Speed Rail - Amtrak Northeast Corridor

The topic of this thread is the proposal to build a dedicated-track High Speed Rail (HSR) link along the Northeast Corridor (NEC) from Washington DC to Boston. A project of this magnitude would be long-term - taking decades, and expensive - over $100 billion. Amtrak itself is under threat, with legislation in Congress by House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee chairman John Mica (R-FL) and House Rail Subcommittee chairman Bill Shuster (R-PA) to privatize the NEC.

There are two proposals: One by the University of Pennsylvania PennDesign group, the other by Amtrak.

The PennDesign proposal is less expensive at $100 billion, with numbers based on 2010 dollars. The Amtrak proposal is $117 billion, but adjusts for inflation. The Amtrak proposal is also preliminary; a more detailed report is expected.

The Amtrak New York to Boston alignment differs significantly from the PennDesign, but Amtrak studied various alignments, and picked a representative "Analyzed alignment."

It is important to note that virtually all of the alignments considered pose a variety of construction and environmental challenges. It was beyond the scope of this study to analyze all potential alignments in significant detail. However, a representative alignment was chosen for analytical and costing purposes.

Both proposals recognize the unsuitability of using the present NEC Shore Line route in Connecticut, but they are bypassed in different ways.

Amtrak proposes an 11.8 mile tunnel from New Jersey to an HSR station at Penn Station, an HSR station at GCT, and continue north into the Bronx. The alignment leaves the NEC at New Rochelle, and runs on a northern route along Interstate Highway and railway routes through Hartford and on to Boston.

PennDesign proposes a tunnel from New Jersey to an HSR station at Penn Station, and continue east with a new tunnel under the East River. Above ground in queens, it would follow the LIRR main line to an HSR station at Jamaica, then into Nassau and Suffolk, with HSR stations at Garden City, Farmingdale, and out to Ronkonkoma-McArthur Airport. The alignment would swing north, with a tunnel across Long Island Sound to New Haven, and north to Hartford, and basically a similar path of Amtrak to Boston.

One thing I don't understand: Both proposals would require a new HSR station under Penn Station. The Amtrak Gateway tunnel emerges in Manhattan at railyard level, unsuitable for an HSR station. Does this mean there would be an additional HSR tunnel, or that Gateway would be modified, given both of these proposals seem to predate Gateway?

I wonder why they couldn't just dig from Penn Station South with a new deep bore tunnel to GCT. Is it not possible to connect a shallow station with a deep bore tunnel?

I don't see the need to replicate Penn Station South deeper to be honest.

Also, wouldn't a deep bore tunnel under GCT interfere with ESA? I'd say it might be easier to use the spare platforms at GCT with a new tunnel from Penn station South dedicated to Amtrak?

Also, I'm sure there could be some way of allowing commuter rail to utilize these tunnels, given that the HSR would be operating at slow speeds under Manhattan. It would be waste for such a tunnel to be limited to Amtrak when New Jersey transit could access the East Side.

The existing LIRR ROW can be used to Ronkonkoma. Tracks would be either elevated above or trenched next to the existing line. Where necessary, short tunnels would be used. I don't know how they would get north, but satellite views show a ROW extending north from a site near I-495 a little east of Patchogue Road. LIPA? It runs to LI Sound at Port Jefferson.

I do like the Penn Design ,with the exception of Wilmington which deserves a station and Worcester.... LI will be tricky , HSR tracks will have to be grade separated and separated from the LIRR tracks due to safety reasons. I don't why the Amtrak proposal once on the CT side does not go up towards Worcester which would capture more riders. I do think there should be a Grand Central connection , for Future Upgrades to the NEC.

I do like the Penn Design ,with the exception of Wilmington which deserves a station and Worcester.... LI will be tricky , HSR tracks will have to be grade separated and separated from the LIRR tracks due to safety reasons. I don't why the Amtrak proposal once on the CT side does not go up towards Worcester which would capture more riders. I do think there should be a Grand Central connection , for Future Upgrades to the NEC.

I prefer the LI alignment, then up through New Haven and Hartford. This would allow JFK to be connected somehow to the network - a huge plus. I suppose it would be an air=train connection to a new station at Jamaica, however it still would free some slots from JFK. I predict, though, that they will chose the safer and less expensive route that won't require a very expensive bridge/tunnel under the LI sound.

It is vital that they avoid the shore route, given how difficult it would be to make that into a proper HSR ROW.

Having it go through Hartford would be a boon for that city, but Providence and perhaps New Haven might miss out. I don't see how that would work out politically.

I prefer the LI alignment, then up through New Haven and Hartford. This would allow JFK to be connected somehow to the network - a huge plus. I suppose it would be an air=train connection to a new station at Jamaica, however it still would free some slots from JFK. I predict, though, that they will chose the safer and less expensive route that won't require a very expensive bridge/tunnel under the LI sound.

It is vital that they avoid the shore route, given how difficult it would be to make that into a proper HSR ROW.

Having it go through Hartford would be a boon for that city, but Providence and perhaps New Haven might miss out. I don't see how that would work out politically.