I was actually considering starting a thread for alternatives to gmail. If a moderator doesn't split the last few posts into a new thread, I would politely ask people to stick to, or get back to, the YouTube topic :-)

What annoyed me was having to login to watch a video ... Since when did motorcycle racing become a "monitored" topic?? Is the elementary school PTA handling the rating systems these days? That BS needs to stop like yesterday!

...I also don't see how you can claim that Google is a monopoly in any of the services it performs. For search there's Bing and numerous smaller players; for video there's Vimeo and others; for email there's Outlook.com and too many others to even think about; for social networking, they're playing second fiddle at best; and so on.

So where you're using Google, it's because, in one way or another, you believe they've got a superior product.

Heh ... well that's why I use Yahoo, because they're Not-Google! Even though they had Inferior Products for a decade!

But there's a nebulous zone of Near-Monopolies, where theoretically there are some bit players, but it's "almost a monopoly". The rough def of Monopoly is % based.

For example, in Microsoft the newly-returned from his Submarine Mine job over at Nokia, I think Stephen Elop was pondering killing Bing. So while it's *currently* there, it might be gone soon! Yahoo is already "powered" by Bing on the back end. For email, basically only like four companies have been around over a decade, mainly Google, Yahoo, MS, and your choice of a fourth.

^Yeah, I guess the baby will just get used to it... (phew, I'm getting sea-sick with that thing going non-stop).

I'm still struggling with the implementation. (I'm using a g+ account with my YT name.) They are trying to force YT/G+ users who aren't using their supposed real name, to either create a second 'real name' a/c (which will always be favoured over any other g+ a/c), or to change their account to their 'real name'.

For example, if I am currently logged into both YT and google (gmail etc) - I cannot [g+] anything - it tries to get me to open a real name account - in spite of having my g+ homepage open in the same browser.

So, the g+ dream is sort of along the lines of Facebook I guess. I guess they'll drive me away eventually, just like FB did before them.

Now I see that, even if I'm logged out of my gmail/ close all gmail tabs - I still cant G+ anything - I *always* get directed towards opening a g+ account in my real name.[G+ hate builds... it's a pity, I much prefer it to FB]

Google is today making a change to Gmail that will further bake in Google+ to its webmail product in a way that’s actually somewhat practical, though also potentially invasive. Going forward, you’ll now be able to directly email your Google+ contacts from Gmail, even if you don’t know their email address. And by default, anyone on Google+ will be able to email you as well, thanks to this new option, if you don’t adjust your settings.

Google is today making a change to Gmail that will further bake in Google+ to its webmail product in a way that’s actually somewhat practical, though also potentially invasive. Going forward, you’ll now be able to directly email your Google+ contacts from Gmail, even if you don’t know their email address. And by default, anyone on Google+ will be able to email you as well, thanks to this new option, if you don’t adjust your settings.

I've just run into a Google+ runaround. A couple of years ago, a good friend persuaded me to join Google+. I did so, using my secondary Gmail account, since I'd read some disturbing accounts of Google+ inappropriately using the contacts in a member's Gmail account, and my secondary account has very few contacts. A few months ago, I bought a Nexus 7 tablet and put both of my Gmail accounts on it. But the account from which I have logged into PlayStore to buy apps is my first Gmail account. Well, a few days ago I tried to post a review of an app that I bought and love. I tried to post it from my main Gmail account, but I was told I had to join Google+ to post a review. So I switched to the secondary Gmail account, only to be told "you have to install the app before you can review it." Apparently, even though both Gmail accounts are on the tablet, and both are in my name, only the first account is recognized as having the app I surely don't want TWO Google+ memberships, nor do I want to expose my primary Gmail account to the vagaries of Google+.

A few months ago, I bought a Nexus 7 tablet and put both of my Gmail accounts on it. But the account from which I have logged into PlayStore to buy apps is my first Gmail account. Well, a few days ago I tried to post a review of an app that I bought and love. I tried to post it from my main Gmail account, but I was told I had to join Google+ to post a review. So I switched to the secondary Gmail account, only to be told "you have to install the app before you can review it." Apparently, even though both Gmail accounts are on the tablet, and both are in my name, only the first account is recognized as having the app

Hm, I was thinking of doing something similar with a Chromebook I was planning to get. But this now makes me wonder how easy it is to operate with two or more Google/Gmail account identities within one Chrome machine...

But of course when you buy/install something on the Play Store it is linked to only one account. Otherwise you could put all your friends accounts on your device and buy an app/movie/album and everyone would have free access to it.

And you don't have to have a G+ account to run gmail and such. They're just adding features as G+ grows in popularity. Mine was set to circles only already- which was the same setting I had for who could e-mail me from my G+ profile page. Not sure if it's the same in general.

^agree with every posted criticism of Google & Youtube, don't use Google or G-mail anymore (use Startpage instead), and don't visit Youtube nearly as much as I used to and absolutely never post anything to it anymore.

Google is today making a change to Gmail that will further bake in Google+ to its webmail product in a way that’s actually somewhat practical, though also potentially invasive. Going forward, you’ll now be able to directly email your Google+ contacts from Gmail, even if you don’t know their email address. And by default, anyone on Google+ will be able to email you as well, thanks to this new option, if you don’t adjust your settings.

Actually, it's kind of cool. Now I can get people to email me without giving out my e-mail address and risk them including it in a mass-forwarded-whatever, spreading it out even further into the recesses of the internet for spambots to find.

People who I have already screened (by adding them to my circles) and who want to e-mail me can send me a message without me taking on any risk associated with giving out personal information. And I can easily block them from sending me more messages. What's not to like about that?

It's just the way they're going about things, in this particular instance by making the default choice 'everyone'. G+ is the jackass brother to pretty sisters. You have to tolerate his uninvited appearances and constant mouth-breathing if you want to keep seeing the girls.

I personally find Youtube invaluable these days. I called up my satellite TV provider and had my account suspended just yesterday after realizing I haven't used the service for over a month. I'd be happy to pay for Youtube instead. But Google would rather annoy me with a service I have no use for than take my money.

Trying to keep it minimal, not "subscribing" to too many people. One guy uploaded about 60 videos in two days, so yesterday I tried to mute his posts - his posts from today are shown twice [edit] in notifications [/edit] (but in fairness, I haven't seen much bugginess apart from that).

A strange thing about G+ is that you can follow anyone - I'm not clear what exactly this means - can they still post stuff yet hide it from certain, or all followers?That aspect doesnt actually bother me, but there's a streak of being a stalker in 'following' - I follow you: you have no idea who I am, or why I might be following you. You check out my site, maybe I dont make public posts (I do, as it happens).

I nearly prefer the FB approach where you make a request. But either way, my ideal would be that you would have to type a few words when choosing to follow someone. That person might not even read it - but if they choose to, and are interested in what you say, they could then follow up on you (apologies for the sort-of pun), and maybe even follow you.

I can see it being more suited to more wordy posts. Meaning I dont see it as being particularly suited to YT. Mind you I prefer to look at my G+ page than my oversubscribed YT page

Basically, when you follow someone, you can by default see their public posts. They can block you, but this is very much a singular and manual process.

When you share something, by default you share it publicly, so that anyone can see it- even those that are not following you- because it's public.

You also make circles from the people that you are following. You can put as many or as few people in circles- those not in circles don't really mean anything to you.

If you change the default share to point to one of your circles, then the people in that circle can see the content; it's no longer public. You can share with more than one circle at a time. And people can be in more than one circle.

So I might have you in a DoCo circle, and skwire in a DoCo and Development circle. He doesn't know what circles he's in of mine... only that I've circled him. you, skwire, and mouser follows me.

If I share to public, all of you can see my posts. If I share to Development- skwire can see them, but you and mouser can't. If share to DoCo, you and Skwire can see it... but mouser can't. If I add development to that share, nothing changes as far as you are concerned.

They should give you a job wraith!It's not as intuitive as they think (I did look at a few introductory videos and pages when I started) and the interface (as usual) could do with a bit of work.

Anyways, I'll stick with it for YT, and possibly expand it into other areas of interest. But the fact that google doesnt not allow me to g+ articles unless I use my real name is a big turn-off there. I'm not even looking for workarounds there - it pisses me off enough that I just wont currently expand my use of it. FWIW, I'm considering using my real name i.e. my google account name, but I hate the pressure, I find I stop thinking objectively about it ;-)

Another thing that bugs me is the content of the advertising - they keep suggesting that I follow people like Britney and her ilk I thought they had a little intelligence: they know my YT viewing history; I do very occasionally watch a 'popstar' video, but the music I watch is 99.999% either older (rock/pop/reggae/punk etc.), or traditional (Irish etc.), or Bluegrass, or jazz recommended on dc, i.e. *nothing* that is currently mainstream. Maybe they are at a loss what they could to sell me!

But anyways, I really just wanted to talk about the experience, and in general (in spite of my moaning), I've gotta say I'm enjoying it.

I've never given google my real name. And because of that, I'm not affected by that part. But yes, I can see how it would be annoying. I remember when they had their 'real name' kick being concerned about that (and YT still asks me to link them... but I don't).

I don't have an Android device... but haven't you actually given it during setup? I mean- it has to get it from somewhere. So either your cellular provider is giving it to them (bad) or you did it during setup.