np: SM UU Stage 4.1 - Shine [Weavile & Gardevoir-Mega banned]

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That sounds like a dreadful tier, nevermind that your argument is flawed since we'd lose our defensive mons, hazard setters/removers, utility etc almost immediately since this hypothetical BL tier is seriously lopsided towards offensive threats and lacking in pretty much every other department.

kacaw

Yeah, M Latias should go. I don't think I need to reiterate everybody else's points, and, as usual, I came here to talk about something else.
With this tier in place, broken drops would fall into BL, further enriching the tier. Furthermore, the BL tier would have an offensive metagame, similiar to early uu. This would make it plausible for near uncounterable pokemon to toddle around in this meta, thanks to the lack of easy switch ins and passive pokemon. This tier may even absorb some annoying things out of uu, such as the volt-turn kingpins,as their usage would render them in that higher tier. UU would stabilize quickly, and actually stabilize, thanks to the sucking motion from the tier above, similiar to what happened to Ninetales-Alola.

Basing a tier on BL doesn't make sense, usage in OU dictates whether a 'mon is eligible for UU, and BL is literally a ban list, ie. 'mons that are considered too good for the UU tier. Creating an entire other tier in between OU and UU would be terribly messy, this now means Pokemon won't be considered for UU when they do drop from OU, also implying that UU would be shaped on usage from this new BL tier you're proposing. Fundamentally, this idea does not work; it's essentially the same as un banning all of BL in UU.

I suppose I have to make an informed observation on the UU tier thus far - not to make this an absolute waste of a post.

The council is currently discussing the next suspect test, which will most likely be a public one. In the meantime, I'll leave this thread open to discuss the new meta.

Less pressure being exerted by Gardevoir-Mega & Weavile creates more freedom for building in this tier. No longer are players forced to run 2 of 4 viable steel types (I don't count M-Lix or M-Aggron as viable in that meta); this also means that volturn is less of a powerful strategy - how so? Volturn was a means of bringing in these powerful threats relatively free of charge, I can now bring in a defensive 'mon with out fear of either being Taunted/2HKO'd by Gardevoir or Pursuit trapped/Knocked by Weavile. I'm not saying volturn is not good any more, nor am I saying it's a broken strategy, simply an observation. With the departure of M-Garde, defensive play styles are now becoming viable again.

Discussion time: Mega-Latias, Mega-Altaria & Scizor.

Mega-Latias seems like the next logical choice in terms of suspect, it can run a plethora of viable sets and functions as a fantastic pivot for its team whilst being incredibly difficult to take down. It's not like M-Lati was struggling before the recent bans, but a ton of pressure has been alleviated. Counter play usually comes down to utilising defensive switch ins with roar/toxic. It's not overly difficult to scout M-Lati's set, but in my experience, both using it and playing against it, there's not been a game where it's restricted to have little or no impact. For example, it's easily the best pivot for teams, functioning as a Defog 'mon as well as having the ability to pick what it can damage through coverage. It's able to wear down common switch-ins due to their lack of recovery or exploitable weakness' backed up by its massive spA stat which often doesn't require investment to put in work. M-Latias is a behemoth, it's spA boost upon mega allows it to run most of its EVs in bulk, thus allowing it to counter Pokemon such as Nidoking, Entei, Starmie, etc. Boosting with Calm Mind also prevents counter play even further, for instance, CM allows it to beat Primarina and Hydreigon on the switch. In summary, M-Latias is likely the best 'mon in the tier right now, it's usually the first consideration on most teams that aren't volturn; 110 base Speed with 80 / 120 / 150 bulk is ridiculous; its 140 base SpA means it can actually afford to invest in its stellar bulk whilst still maintaining offensive presence; and it can tailored to effectively take on threats to its team with great coverage options. Counter play is fairly limited, seeing as M-Lati users usually give it the ability to hit problem Pokemon to their team and late game CM sets usually end up winning if its relevant checks have been chipped.

Most people only like to discuss its Dragon Dance set and tend to forget that it can run a Special oriented support set with Heal Bell and even a mixed attacking breaker of sorts. Similar to M-Lati it's a fantastic pivot, with arguably the best typing in the game, it has 7 resistance as well as an immunity to Dragon type, this also makes M-Altaria a very difficult Pokemon to RKO. In terms of offensive coverage, I strongly believe M-Altaria is one of the most difficult Pokemon to switch into in the tier. If you take into account that it can run both an effective specially oriented set as well as a physical DD set you have a relatively versatile Pokemon in terms of offensive presence that is quite difficult to take down. With a single Dragon Dance, counter play to M-Altaria is very limited, offensive builds will usually rely on Scizor, Klefki, Cobalion or M-Beedrill and defensive teams also have the added luxury of running other bulky steel 'mons such as M-Aggron, M-Lix, Bronzong, Amoonguss etc. M-Altaria is able to run coverage such as EQ or even Fire Blast to dissuade these Pokemon from swiching in. The M-Altaria user can also choose to forego coverage all together in order to beat other counter measures: that is running Refresh in order to avoid Toxic stall and beat Pokemon such as Gliscor and Alomomola 1v1. Clearly the majority of DD counter play is based around Steel type Pokemon, which makes building around, and playing with M-Altaria, objectively easier. A special oriented set with Hyper Voice and Fire Blast is a great pivot for bulkier teams, and is able to offer support in Heal Bell. Given its fantastic typing and bulk it can find plenty of opportunities to switch in and its coverage is surprisingly difficult to switch into (Empoleon, Tentacruel, Nihilego, Crobat come to mind); this is where mixed EQ truly shines. With EQ you can pressure a lot of the M-Altaria's switch ins (Blissey, Talonflame, Moltres, Crobat being its best switch ins). In my opinion, I feel like M-Altaria will likely be considered for a suspect test later on; its typing, bulky, power and versatility simply make it too great of a threat in the UU metagame.

No doubt it's the best Pokemon in the tier by far; consistently #1 in usage since February. The meta has changed a considerable amount since then, and I think with the advent of teammates such as Rotom-W/M-Manetric; Scizor may have been pushed over the edge. With Choice Band Scizor can adequately function as a RKO 'mon, wall breaker, Pursuit trapper & pivot in a single set, talk about role compression! Also, what can actually switch in safely to CB Scizor? U-Turn alleviates all forms of defensive counter play (aside from niche strats in eject button magnet trap - which solely exists because of Scizor in the first place!). CB Scizor is an absolute monster versus slower bulkier teams, and it also has Technician boosted Bullet Punch to pressure fast offensive builds. Hidden Power Fire on everything literally exists, so that free turns do not exist for Scizor. With Swords Dance Scizor now becomes a dedicated sweeper & breaker with the ability to pick its counter play. I've proven in the past that offensive counter play can be limited by the addition of Quick Attack. Further to this SD Scizor still has moves such as Bug Bite, Superpower & Knock Off in order to break what its team needs it to. Lastly, it's no slouch defensively, bulky pivot sets with Defog are also utilised in UU in order to capitalise on Scizor's defensive typing and switch-in ability. Defensive Scizor has many opportunities to switch in and support its team with Defog and wall offensive threats such as M-Sharpedo, M-Aerodactyl, Mamoswine, etc. Whilst still retaining strong priority in Bullet Punch. Although I'd argue defensive Scizor is bad in the meta today, it's best set by far is Choice Band. Choice Band Scizor in a voltturn meta is arguably broken. Historically Scizor, has proven to be problematic but if we argue that Scizor is used to contain other problematic 'mons in UU, it would be contradictory of us to at least not inspect Scizor further given that that statement does not hold true for suspect test discussion. I seriously think we should look at Scizor and its affect on the meta. HP Fire on everything isn't fun.

Finally, someone recognizes how good mega altaria is. Its coverage combined with its defensive typing definitely makes it very hard to revenge kill. This is not a mon to write off as "balanced," just because it can be checked by passive walls such as amoongus, maggron, and msteelix. Mega altaria needs to be suspected eventually.

Breloom sounds like another very powerful tool for VoltTurn teams to abuse, Rotom-W would love having such a powerful Grass type to help deal with Gastrodon and Seismitoad, while Scizor and M-Manectric also benefit from Brelooms ability to deal with Hippo:

VoltTurn teams would also give Breloom chances to come in freely, Spore something, and set up.
So technically you're right, Breloom would fit very well in the meta but I'm not sure giving it another shot in UU is gonna benefit the tier right now.

impress the empress

yeah i don't really see the point in discussing bl unbans. in the past two months, uu has banned xurkitree, mega hera, mega gallade, jirachi, and now weavile + mega garde. this doesn't even cover how we still haven't dealt w potentially broken mons malt / mlati etc. i really think we should be more focused on balancing uu as best we can before the new games come out instead of resuspecting potentially unhealthy bl mons.

That sounds like a dreadful tier, nevermind that your argument is flawed since we'd lose our defensive mons, hazard setters/removers, utility etc almost immediately since this hypothetical BL tier is seriously lopsided towards offensive threats and lacking in pretty much every other department.

I agree wholeheartedly with what Brock Obama wrote above. BL is basically a threatlist of pokemon deemed offensively overbearing for UU. Any offensively overbearing pokemon with fantastic typing or significant utility (especially hazard setting/removal) is probably already OU by usage.

yeah i don't really see the point in discussing bl unbans. in the past two months, uu has banned xurkitree, mega hera, mega gallade, jirachi, and now weavile + mega garde. this doesn't even cover how we still haven't dealt w potentially broken mons malt / mlati etc. i really think we should be more focused on balancing uu as best we can before the new games come out instead of resuspecting potentially unhealthy bl mons.

While I agree in principle with the idea that we should try to construct as stable of a meta as possible before USuMo, I think we have to confront the fact that we probably won't have a meta that the majority of UU players feel is "healthy" or "stable" for at least the next 4-6 months. USuMo comes out in under a month, and the release of new pokemon ensures that UU will see some crazy drops in coming tier shifts. In all likelihood, BL will be even larger in 6 months than it is today. As such, I think it's fair to ask whether now is the time to reexamine some of the pokemon on BL to determine whether they truly deserve to be banned from UU.

For example: Azumarril was banned shortly after UU moved out of beta, when the meta was significantly different. Would Azu still be ban-worthy in our current meta, with offensive counters like Manectric-M and Sceptile-M or defensive checks like Rotom-W or Aggron-M? Would the Weavile suspect test have gone differently if a strong check like Azumarill had been part of the meta? Or Alakazam with sash and counter? Or bulky fighting types like Conkeldurr and Buzzwole? Weavile was always strong but removing other strong pokemon to BL is what made it overbearing and ultimately ban-worthy.

The piecemeal reintroduction of mega stones was the root cause of the UU's instability this gen thanks to a few ridiculous tier shifts. That said, there was also some insane power creep with the introduction of the Tapus, Ultra Beasts, and Alolan forms. Power creep is a problem that isn't going away. Is there a point where BL becomes so big that we need to do a hard reset of the bans and let a new meta develop from there? Or are we satisfied playing in a tier with a massive ban list if it helps keep some semblance of continuity across generations? Resetting the UU ban list would also wreak havoc in lower tiers as many current UU pokemon would drop in usage, so maybe this needs to be a Smogon-wide conversation. I'm looking to the UU council to provide stronger leadership on this topic moving forward. Otherwise we may all need to get used to the idea of a tier in a permanent state of reaction and instability.

Tbh the current BL Mons are all too much for this meta imo, sans *maybe* pz & weavile but that just got banned. Looking through them, pretty much all of them would either be over centralising or just like straight up borked lol. Can we move on?

Yes, Specstom. It seems like it'd be underwhelming but trust me, it's not. It's a decent bulky but still powerful Specs breaker. While water z does indeed grant it the ability to switch moves, after the nuke it leaves you with a Mon that really would appreciate more power. Trick also helps against stall and defensive answers. I've also found that the strong volt switch can really help in wearing down band scizor's checks. I prefer timid for nidoking but modest is an option ig. So yeah, just a kinda decent (not the best but still decent) rotom set. Hope you guys enjoy using it.

EDIT: Yeah, HP Grass is super helpful for a lot of the bulky waters in this meta like Swampert, Quagsire, Seismitoad and Gastrodon. Water/Grounds are heat rn with standard offensive washroom being so popular and hp grass really helps vs those.

Scizor - With regards to scizor, its usefulness is more a commentary about how good uturn is than how good the pokemon is. It actually has many reliable answers that just cant do anything to it because uturning is the most inconsequential move in the game. Still though, uturn, knock off, scald, and all of these broken moves have given rise to so much counterplay that i frankly think its laughable to call scizor unhealthy when youre actually just admitting that you dont know how to play around uturn strats. I honestly think you have to have a very 1 dimensional team to not be able to beat sciz.

Latias - Trying to hurt mega latias is like trying to punch in a dream. It just doesnt matter how strong your move is, it ends up barely scratching it. A special attacker will literally never beat latias 1v1, so immediately half the tier is meaningless against it. Even the strongest physical attackers have a hard time 2hkoing it with its 120 defense maxed out.

Altaria - On paper this thing seems even more broken than latias. I have not seen much evidence that says otherwise. Even if youre not running dragon dance, a defensive cotton guard set is unkillable, and ultimately just points to the fact that this thing has about as many, if not more viable sets than mega latias while being similar in brokenness to it in all other categories. I would really like to see more of it in action, but cannot fathom it remaining UU. This one falls under the category of "has many counters but actually no counters if you think about it"

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I would like to go back to scizor, because I think it is an interesting talking point about what makes a metagame fun. I for a long time hated pursuit, because i though it to be inherently unfair, until realising how 1 dimensional the game would be without it. Part of the fun of pokemon is making predictions to work around moves like that, and building teams which take advantage of this strategy. I ran metagross in rain once upon a time, and after realising metagross is easily trapped, I put it with seismitoed to come in for free and sweep on a muk. It's these sorts of things that I find fun in the metagame, and banning them or the pokemon that use them would make the meta way too linear, and I think the same of uturn, knock off, scald, and all that.

kacaw

Scizor - With regards to scizor, its usefulness is more a commentary about how good uturn is than how good the pokemon is. It actually has many reliable answers that just cant do anything to it because uturning is the most inconsequential move in the game. Still though, uturn, knock off, scald, and all of these broken moves have given rise to so much counterplay that i frankly think its laughable to call scizor unhealthy when youre actually just admitting that you dont know how to play around uturn strats. I honestly think you have to have a very 1 dimensional team to not be able to beat sciz.

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I would like to go back to scizor, because I think it is an interesting talking point about what makes a metagame fun. I for a long time hated pursuit, because i though it to be inherently unfair, until realising how 1 dimensional the game would be without it. Part of the fun of pokemon is making predictions to work around moves like that, and building teams which take advantage of this strategy. I ran metagross in rain once upon a time, and after realising metagross is easily trapped, I put it with seismitoed to come in for free and sweep on a muk. It's these sorts of things that I find fun in the metagame, and banning them or the pokemon that use them would make the meta way too linear, and I think the same of uturn, knock off, scald, and all that.

So I really was bringing up Scizor as a discussion point, whilst presenting relevant facts that people should consider when thinking about Scizor's overall impact in the UU tier. As it stands if you're denying that Scizor has been one of, if not, the biggest influencing factors in regard to this tiers development, I'd question your overall knowledge and understanding of the current metagame. Secondly, you literally turned this post on its head in order to personally attack me? Suggesting that I am unable to play against a Scizor to begin with? I'm not sure at which I point I was admitting that I cannot play against Scizor, but if that's what you took from that entire post, then I must apologise for not clarifying my observations for you to understand.

I really would like to see counter arguments to the Scizor debate. As it stands I am fairly indifferent, but am genuinely interested to see how this tier would look with out Scizor.

ban all garden sneks

Mega Latias was broken before the weavile suspect, and it's still broken now; nothing new here. As i said in my previous post, there were very few ways to offensively pressure Mega Latias reliably in the first place, and two of those just got banned. So what do we do now, start running toxic on more 'mons just to make it easier to deal with? Haha, good one. Personally, I'd also like to see Mega Latias council voted on as well because this thing is just even more stupid now, but i'm not gonna fuss too much about it because aside from Mega Latias, I don't really see anything glaringly obvious that should be suspect tested quite yet.

No thoughts on Scizor, although I don't think Scizor is the primary reason why this meta is the way it is right now; if anything, the drops still have much bigger influence as of now.

Oh, and as a side note, I've killed at least 4 more Scizors with Mega Latias in about 20 battles since the suspect test ended. Let this be yet another reminder to those of you that are still unaware that, once again, Scizor is not a fucking counter to Mega Latias. Thank you for taking your valuable time to read this.

So I really was bringing up Scizor as a discussion point, whilst presenting relevant facts that people should consider when thinking about Scizor's overall impact in the UU tier. As it stands if you're denying that Scizor has been one of, if not, the biggest influencing factors in regard to this tiers development, I'd question your overall knowledge and understanding of the current metagame. Secondly, you literally turned this post on its head in order to personally attack me? Suggesting that I am unable to play against a Scizor to begin with? I'm not sure at which I point I was admitting that I cannot play against Scizor, but if that's what you took from that entire post, then I must apologise for not clarifying my observations for you to understand.

I really would like to see counter arguments to the Scizor debate. As it stands I am fairly indifferent, but am genuinely interested to see how this tier would look with out Scizor.

I used the general "you" not the you as in you you. I'm sorry you took it that way. Anyway, scizor's influence on the metagame and the points you made in general all point to the fact that uturn is the main problem with it. Without uturn, scizor becomes very easy to switch into. With uturn, youre still wrong in saying that it gets rid of all counter play, and I will prove this with logical induction:

Scizor is really good at running away with uturn, in fact i would say this is half the reason you might call it meta defining. This leaves it open to 2 flaws: It has to uturn on most things or risk losing tempo. Option number 1 is to just keep uturning forever. Okay, great, but now youre open to spikes, rocks, and rocky helmet damage. Option number 2 is to roost this damage off, or SD. If it decides to stay in and roost, or even sd, an infernape or equally strong pokemon can switch in for free on scizor it will really hurt the scizor side team. This shows that scizor does not rid itself of counter play with uturn, and that a lot of its influence in the metagame revolves around my point of teams being too 1 dimensional to take advantage of uturn shananigans. I can even give examples of such counterplay if you would like.

The whole point of my post was to illustrate that players - not necessarily you - attribute scizor's influence on the game to the wrong attributes. Even if I denied its influence on the metagame as well as all its other sets (which i didn't), it would not significantly detract from my rationale to not suspect it.

I feel like Scizor is kinda a difficult subject to approach when it comes to the question of how healthy it is in the meta because for a long while it wasn't really an issue. When it first dropped most people ran band or bulky SD sets which were good but easy enough to manage, and plenty of people still believe those are it's only good sets and scoff at the idea of running a move like Quick Attack.
It wasn't until people (mostly Sparrow) started really experimenting and developing new sets did Scizor begin to shine as a real powerhouse, nowadays it isn't just spamming U-turn and you can't just toss a fast Steel resist like Infernape at it and always come out on top either. Bug Bite, Superpower, Quick Attack, Knock Off, Life Orb, and even Lum are all very viable choices for Scizor and allow it to handle a rather wide variety of would-be checks. Of course that can be said about just about any offensive mon with a decent movepool, but you gotta remember that 130 base attack at +2 is gonna sting a bit regardless of not getting Super Effective damage or STAB.

In a strange kind of way Scizor's current standing in the meta reminds me a little of Hydreigon in ORAS, both of them being top tier threats that function as bulky pivots and offensive pressure with just a single set, both having a set or two that is generally accepted as their best set, and both having a good enough movepool to keep opponents on their toes if not scouted properly.

Now I'm not trying to say Scizor is just like Hydreigon was or that it's broken because it can run different sets, that's not my point.
What I'm trying to get at is that it feels like there's this growing difference in opinions on Scizor and how healthy it is since for the first few mouths nobody found it troublesome, and there really needs to be more discussion on exactly how good it is to help close that gap and allow the community to form a solid and educated opinion on Scizor and it's effect on UU.

Edit: And let's give Mega-Latias the boot already, everyones already summed up pretty well that it's just a bit too much for UU.

once known as smogon gay baby #4

Oh, and as a side note, I've killed at least 4 more Scizors with Mega Latias in about 20 battles since the suspect test ended. Let this be yet another reminder to those of you that are still unaware that, once again, Scizor is not a fucking counter to Mega Latias. Thank you for taking your valuable time to read this.

In all honesty, I really don't think Scizor is unbalanced as sparrow puts it. The problem with UU in general is that it's packed to the gills with offensive threats, and you can only deal with so much with 6 Pokemon. As of now, teams have to pack dedicated M-Alt and M-Latias answers, which in of itself takes up a lot of space on teams. By relieving the tier of one or the other (or both), you'll definitely have an easier time implementing better methods of handling VoltTurn.

Even with the new VoltTurn options coming down to UU, I still don't really see how we can pinpoint the problem on Scizor at the moment when you have confounding variables like the new mega Pokemon that also equally affect UU dynamics. Although a sparrow has experimented with the Pokemon quite a bit, it's still not a good enough justification for the Pokemon's potential.

honestly Scizor to me is sort of like Lando-T in OU to a lesser extent - few drawbacks to using it on your team outside of very specific archetypes, glue mon af, and the face mon of its tier. I think Scizor being banned would benefit the meta; however, there are imo clear things i.e. keys mega lati that need a look prior to Scizor.

once known as smogon gay baby #4

Seriously, we’re keen on suspecting Sciz? I disagree that Sciz has definitely had a unhealthy impact on the meta. Sciz has been doing this shit since he got here: U-Turning out of his counters/checks, picking off weakened mons with BP, setting up and cleaning house, or gaining momentum and getting rid of Hazards. Scizor is simply just a glue mon that every team needs regardless of its role on that team.

If anything, all the blame should go to M-Lati. This monster doesn’t even deserve suspecting. We already know how broken it is. No need for wasting time .

I think it's kinda a bad idea to just disregard something this centralizing as worth looking at. MAYBE it's broken, probably not. It's sure as hell centralizing though. I get the feeling some things would be a lot easier to keep in check without the tier's resident 'fuck you faeries' running around Bullet Punching everything. Broken, probably not, like I said. But considering you just outright said 'every team needs scizor', I do have to say that something overcentralizing to that degree should be looked at.

Would I say ban? That's a question for another day, considering something that high in usage leaving is going to be hell to predict what's going to be up with the tier next.

I think it's kinda a bad idea to just disregard something this centralizing as worth looking at. MAYBE it's broken, probably not. It's sure as hell centralizing though. I get the feeling some things would be a lot easier to keep in check without the tier's resident 'fuck you faeries' running around Bullet Punching everything. Broken, probably not, like I said. But considering you just outright said 'every team needs scizor', I do have to say that something overcentralizing to that degree should be looked at.

Would I say ban? That's a question for another day, considering something that high in usage leaving is going to be hell to predict what's going to be up with the tier next.

Seriously, we’re keen on suspecting Sciz? I disagree that Sciz has definitely had a unhealthy impact on the meta. Sciz has been doing this shit since he got here: U-Turning out of his counters/checks, picking off weakened mons with BP, setting up and cleaning house, or gaining momentum and getting rid of Hazards. Scizor is simply just a glue mon that every team needs regardless of its role on that team.

If anything, all the blame should go to M-Lati. This monster doesn’t even deserve suspecting. We already know how broken it is. No need for wasting time .

Um, no, not every team needs scizor. It's worth considering on most teams but there are plenty of teams I'd definitely not consider it. In particular I'd hate to stack a fire weakness in this meta.

But I definitely agree with Ultima-Z otherwise, because scizor imo is just splashable and really good, not over centralizing to the extent of ban worthy. The comparison to Lando-T is just perfect here because they're both essentially in the same spot - both are the gods of their metagames, but are definitely not ban worthy. There is good enough counterplay to them, both offensively and defensively.

In addition, this tier is just really volatile and I don't feel like we need to go about banning everything when it oftentimes makes the situation worse. We just need to suspect what is genuinely, obviously broken - LATIAS-MEGA - and then we can talk about Scizor.

To further what pokemon sparrow just said, it's a bit pointless to hold a public suspect test for Latias-Mega when the majority of people in UU chat, at least among the regulars, have vocally stated they would prefer it being gone from what I've seen. While I can understand the council being in a bit of a lose-lose position between having to worry about people griping about having to wait 2+ weeks for something "obvious" to be resolved via a public vote and having to worry about likely getting complained at even more if the council vote ends up not banning Latias-Mega like people seem to want, the latter seems like the lesser evil. The lesser evil option would at least solve the matter far more quickly and it's not as if Latias-Mega can't be revisited for a public suspect if necessary as has happened with multiple council votes in the past.
TL;DR: Please council vote Latias-Mega first. If it somehow survives council vote, then please public suspect it later.

This gen has had little to no stability apart from the clefable meta, I have to agree with pokemon sparrow's post. I am very thankful for the council allowing us to take part in so many suspects as it really does make us feel apart of the change, but this is honestly taking too long and I want to enjoy UU as its usually been with its vast majority of options to choose from. So I apologise if it feels like I am putting pressure on the council but I think its not only me who is fed up with the current meta (which really isn't your faults...that huge meta shift with all those drops really fucked us over). I hope you guys can just move us forward with a council vote instead of a 1-2 week suspect test.