What feaures or combination of feaures are illegal on a rimfire rifle?

I have a ruger 10/22 which I decided to tacticool. It wasn't my original plan, I never thought of doing any changes on it. It all started when I added a millet red dot. Six months later and out of the blue I purcased a ATI Strikeforce Scorpion stock. I though it would end there until I went shooting and noticed my hand would start to slip when sweaty on the handguard due to lack of any real texture. I now want to add a foward pistol grip. The only so called evil features are the pistol grip and the folding stock. Would it be okay to add the extra grip?

I know about the length requirement when folded and my 10/22 measures 26 and a quarter inches when folded. If it is legal and perfectly ok, are most LE aware that rimfires are excempt from evil feature laws? I had a scare sometime back when some idiot ranger(have say it how it is) seemed bent on my 870 being illegal because of a collapsible stock and pistol grip and that my sks's were also illegal because of their folding bayonets. I was polite and explained to him my limited knowledge on the law and luckily a sheriff roled by and backed up what I was saying.

Which has nothing to do with the AW laws. The AW laws and magazine laws are two separate issues. It's just that the AW laws include the use of a large capacity fixed magazine in a centerfire semi auto rifle(and pistol if I remember correctly), a rimfire rifle is not a semi auto centerfire rifle.

Which has nothing to do with the AW laws. The AW laws and magazine laws are two separate issues. It's just that the AW laws include the use of a large capacity fixed magazine in a centerfire semi auto rifle(and pistol if I remember correctly), a rimfire rifle is not a semi auto centerfire rifle.

The 10-round magazine capacity limit still applies to rimfire rifles. Otherwise my S&W 15-22 would have come with the standard 25-round mags that ships to states without mag cap limits.

The 10-round magazine capacity limit still applies to rimfire rifles. Otherwise my S&W 15-22 would have come with the standard 25-round mags that ships to states without mag cap limits.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand...

Your 15-22 did not come up a 25 round magazine because it is illegal to import, manufacture, sell, etc.

It is not illegal for you to use a 25 round magazine with your 15-22. Please go read the penal codes as listed in the FAQ you referenced. The only time it is illegal to use a large capacity magazine in a rifle, is if it is a fixed magazine on a semi auto centerfire rifle. Your 15-22 is not a semi auto centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine.

You can use 50 round capacity magazines with rimfire rifles in CA, there is no law preventing that. Getting a magazine with a capacity over 10 rounds is a different issue.

This is why its easier just post the actual laws:

Quote:

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
[...]
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
[...]
(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

Use and Possession are not listed under (2). It's all about how and when you acquire it in CA.

Also note the exemption under (B) ".22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device"
This is often misrepresented by people claim rimfire is exempt, or state "Rimfire tube magazines are exempt" Note that the PC lacks the term rimfire it states .22 caliber.

Quote:

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

12020 The PC that deals with "Large Capacity Magazines" (Like Merc said) is not Part of the AWB and is a separate issue.

Under 12276.1 Rimfire Rifles are not mentioned and therefore are not subject to "evil features"
Nor are they limited to 10 rounds by definition like semiautomatic centerfire rifles with a fixed magazine.
Nor are they mentioned under the need to be 30 OAL. So therefore they default to Federal barrel and OAL length limits: 16" and 26".

It is important to note though that under Semiautomatic Pistols it does not say centerfire like the rifle sections do, so it applies to semiautomatic rimfire pistols as well. (Ruger charger for example)

__________________The above is not legal advice. It is just something you read from some dude on the internet. It does not reflect the opinion of Calguns.net. If it seems rude it was probably meant to read sarcastically.

As it applies specifically to M&P 15-22 mags, since you can't mfg, import, give or lend, how do you receive a lrg capacity mag ie. 25rd that you can use or own in the great state of Kalifornia?

There is a lot of people who send their rifles to S&W for repair and got back a free 25 round mag with their rifle like a friend of mine. If you somehow go home and find a high cap mag magically sitting in your safe you have not broken any laws. Personally, I wouldn't bother using a high cap mag in my 15-22, not worth the potential hassles, but if someone does use one and get questioned by a LEO, they need to STFU and get a lawyer because possesion requires the burden of proof of aquisition, and no better proof that a running mouth.

To my understanding, military members on Permanent Change of Station (PCS) orders are exempt from being considered an importer of firearms. That's what allows service members to bring their personally owned firearms (baring any outlawed features, etc). If that is true, could they "import" BX-25's from out of state and keep them for personal use?

I don't plan on doing this, just trying to figure out the mess if the California system. I walked into a sporting goods store this week in Wisconsin and walked out with a new Savage Mk II thirty minutes later, so all these restrictions are confusing.

To my understanding, military members on Permanent Change of Station (PCS) orders are exempt from being considered an importer of firearms. That's what allows service members to bring their personally owned firearms (baring any outlawed features, etc). If that is true, could they "import" BX-25's from out of state and keep them for personal use?

I don't plan on doing this, just trying to figure out the mess if the California system. I walked into a sporting goods store this week in Wisconsin and walked out with a new Savage Mk II thirty minutes later, so all these restrictions are confusing.

As far as I know military do not have any exemption of 12020 for importation / personal use.

Anyone can bring a magazine into this state if it is disassembled into a magazine rebuild kit. Putting it back together in state would be illegal unless they are rebuilding a legally owned "large-capacity" magazine and do not end up with any more then they started.

__________________The above is not legal advice. It is just something you read from some dude on the internet. It does not reflect the opinion of Calguns.net. If it seems rude it was probably meant to read sarcastically.

To my understanding, military members on Permanent Change of Station (PCS) orders are exempt from being considered an importer of firearms. That's what allows service members to bring their personally owned firearms (baring any outlawed features, etc). If that is true, could they "import" BX-25's from out of state and keep them for personal use?

I don't plan on doing this, just trying to figure out the mess if the California system. I walked into a sporting goods store this week in Wisconsin and walked out with a new Savage Mk II thirty minutes later, so all these restrictions are confusing.

Your understanding is incorrect. A military member on PCS orders is considered a resident of the state, and relinquishes certain things from their home state, such as firearms purchases. Technically if you PCS to Cali, you can't go on leave and buy a gun in your home state.

That doesn't stop people from doing do. But it is technically illegal. Likewise, when PCSing with firearms, you're not importing because you're moving. You're supposed to fill out the DOJ form for off roster handguns, I'm not sure about any other paperwork.

You can't bring listed assault weapons like the AR-15s so most people strip the lower and sell it out of state before moving, then buy a stripped ca lower. I believe >10 mags must be disassembled but I'm not positive.

Ahh, gotcha. Thankfully, I am PCS'ing out if California. I'm only here for school before reporting back to Wisconsin. Would someone need to fill out anything if there firearm us on the safe roster? I think I'm safe either way because I am only here for four months.

Are you absolutly sure ? I have a fire arm magazine( rebuild kit) that has a date on it that says its pre-ban date , also says " For Law Enforcement Only ". It is a standard capacity magazine for a Double Stack 45 ACP.

With the magazine ban the company started putting the date on them as well as the other aforementioned info.

I also have a few Magazine Rebuild kits for a 10/22 that have a date stamped ( actually molded into) on them.

If there are no preban magazines in CA how come they come with a date that makes them "post-ban""?

__________________
Let those without fault cast the first stone .

Bweise says "I have to say the situation was not at all helped by 22 yr old former Airsoft douches who kept touting here, "But possession is not illegal!" "

Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones , cause I got a sling shot

Fighting on the internet is like being in the special Olympics , everybody wins but your still retarded.

Are you absolutly sure ? I have a fire arm magazine( rebuild kit) that has a date on it that says its pre-ban date , also says " For Law Enforcement Only ". It is a standard capacity magazine for a Double Stack 45 ACP.

With the magazine ban the company started putting the date on them as well as the other aforementioned info.

I also have a few Magazine Rebuild kits for a 10/22 that have a date stamped ( actually molded into) on them.

If there are no preban magazines in CA how come they come with a date that makes them "post-ban""?

Your magazine could have the the text of the dead sea scrolls on it, it doesn't matter. CA does not prohibit possession. This has already been explained a couple of times now quite clearly in this thread. Dates are for states that have date requirements(and even then it's idiotic due to the number of mags without a date, or the ability to change the date, hell someone could make magazines dated for the year 3025 if they want to), CA has no such requirement.

Read the PC, follow the PC. Do not add your own ideas to the PC, don't add silly gunshop FUD to the PC.

Quote:

Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

edit: I don't get why this is still such a highly questioned topic, considering how amazingly crystal clear the PC is(which is a rarity for a place like CA). If something is not stated to be illegal, then it is legal.

Your magazine could have the the text of the dead sea scrolls on it, it doesn't matter. CA does not prohibit possession. This has already been explained a couple of times now quite clearly in this thread. Dates are for states that have date requirements(and even then it's idiotic due to the number of mags without a date, or the ability to change the date, hell someone could make magazines dated for the year 3025 if they want to), CA has no such requirement.

Read the PC, follow the PC. Do not add your own ideas to the PC, don't add silly gunshop FUD to the PC.

edit: I don't get why this is still such a highly questioned topic, considering how amazingly crystal clear the PC is(which is a rarity for a place like CA). If something is not stated to be illegal, then it is legal.

Originally Posted by Merc1138
There is no such thing as pre/post ban magazines in CA either.

This is a statement that speaks of absolutes, Read: There is no such thing as pre/post ban magazines in CA
So you are telling people that there is no type of magazine banned in CA ?

If so you are spreading FUD.

There was no mention that I made as to the legality of possession , the magazines I spoke of do have a pre/post date on them which would make them pre/post ban Magazines. And they are in CA , hence there are pre/post ban magazines in CA. Follow the logic of your statements as absolutes , which they were.

Stop passing FUD, or stop talking/writing/posting in absolutes that mislead people .

__________________
Let those without fault cast the first stone .

Bweise says "I have to say the situation was not at all helped by 22 yr old former Airsoft douches who kept touting here, "But possession is not illegal!" "

Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones , cause I got a sling shot

Fighting on the internet is like being in the special Olympics , everybody wins but your still retarded.

Originally Posted by Merc1138
There is no such thing as pre/post ban magazines in CA either.

This is a statement that speaks of absolutes, Read: There is no such thing as pre/post ban magazines in CA
So you are telling people that there is no type of magazine banned in CA ?

If so you are spreading FUD.

There was no mention that I made as to the legality of possession , the magazines I spoke of do have a pre/post date on them which would make them pre/post ban Magazines. And they are in CA , hence there are pre/post ban magazines in CA. Follow the logic of your statements as absolutes , which they were.

Stop passing FUD, or stop talking/writing/posting in absolutes that mislead people .

Holy crap man. Have you just not bothered to read? Possession is not illegal. There is no date requirement to possess a large capacity magazine in CA.

Manufacturing, selling, importing, lending, and exposing for sale are not the same as possession and use. I'm using absolutes because it is absolute. It doesn't matter what date is marked on your magazine in CA, as it is meaningless.

If you are in a state that restricts magazine possession and/or use based on a date stamp, then it would matter. CA is not one of those states. Also, if the date stamp was for the federal ban, that's been over for years now and is again irrelevant. The only way that the date is relevant, is that if the state managed to prove that you imported or manufactured it within the past 3 years(statute of limitations), which would be incredibly difficult for them to do unless you made it extremely obvious that you did so.

Other states have requirements for the manufacture date of magazines with regards to possession and/or use, CA does not.

BTW, try learning what "FUD" means, since I am not spreading fear, doubt, or uncertainty considering how many times the PC has been referred to already in this thread.

Holy crap man. Have you just not bothered to read? Possession is not illegal. There is no date requirement to possess a large capacity magazine in CA.

Manufacturing, selling, importing, lending, and exposing for sale are not the same as possession and use. I'm using absolutes because it is absolute. It doesn't matter what date is marked on your magazine in CA, as it is meaningless.

If you are in a state that restricts magazine possession and/or use based on a date stamp, then it would matter. CA is not one of those states. Also, if the date stamp was for the federal ban, that's been over for years now and is again irrelevant. The only way that the date is relevant, is that if the state managed to prove that you imported or manufactured it within the past 3 years(statute of limitations), which would be incredibly difficult for them to do unless you made it extremely obvious that you did so.

Other states have requirements for the manufacture date of magazines with regards to possession and/or use, CA does not.

BTW, try learning what "FUD" means, since I am not spreading fear, doubt, or uncertainty considering how many times the PC has been referred to already in this thread.

Apparently YOU CAN NOT READ , If you can your a LIAR , either your spreading FUD or you lied about what you said." There are no pre/post ban magazines in CA" ( That was an absolute YOU STATED ) SO which is it FUD or LIE?

I NEVER said possession was illegal , I commented on the statement you made " THERE ARE NO PRE/POST MAGAZINES IN CA."

I then stated a FACT, There are Pre/post ban magazines ( wither or not the ban is in effect or not, They can still be pre/post magazines) You need to carefully read and then try to understand what has been said , especially what came off your tongue/fingers.

And since you believe there is not currently a ban on " standard" capacity magazines in CA and have not said as much , you only mentioned that the past Fed ban was no longer in effect , then you spreading either a LIE or FUD because you can not purchase/lend( with exceptions)/manufacture/import anything that holds more than 10 rounds in CA. In fact the are listed and can be taken as a nuisance ( Right?)

Get a grip and try reading WHAT I POSTED , NOT WHAT YOU THINK I POSTED

__________________
Let those without fault cast the first stone .

Bweise says "I have to say the situation was not at all helped by 22 yr old former Airsoft douches who kept touting here, "But possession is not illegal!" "

Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones , cause I got a sling shot

Fighting on the internet is like being in the special Olympics , everybody wins but your still retarded.

Apparently YOU CAN NOT READ , If you can your a LIAR , either your spreading FUD or you lied about what you said." There are no pre/post ban magazines in CA" ( That was an absolute YOU STATED ) SO which is it FUD or LIE?

I NEVER said possession was illegal , I commented on the statement you made " THERE ARE NO PRE/POST MAGAZINES IN CA."

I then stated a FACT, There are Pre/post ban magazines ( wither or not the ban is in effect or not, They can still be pre/post magazines) You need to carefully read and then try to understand what has been said , especially what came off your tongue/fingers.

And since you believe there is not currently a ban on " standard" capacity magazines in CA and have not said as much , you only mentioned that the past Fed ban was no longer in effect , then you spreading either a LIE or FUD because you can not purchase/lend( with exceptions)/manufacture/import anything that holds more than 10 rounds in CA. In fact the are listed and can be taken as a nuisance ( Right?)

Get a grip and try reading WHAT I POSTED , NOT WHAT YOU THINK I POSTED

Dude, you can't even quote the post right.

The state of California, does not give a crap about whether or not your magazines are "pre" or "post" ban, because the California penal code has no specification of "pre" or "post" ban.

Again, there is no ban on possession and use(AW laws aside, but we're in the rimfire section talking about a rifle).

The only ban is on the import, manufacture, sale, exposing for sale, blah blah blah. How many times does this need to be repeated for you to get it through your head? You can claim that your magazines are post/pre/compost/whatever, but it makes NO difference in CA with regards to possession and use. I have no issue reading the nonsense you keep posting. Read the penal code exactly as it is written in plain English, it's that simple.

edit: Are you seriously trying to argue the semantics of having a post federal ban magazine in CA as being "post ban" when the rest of us were talking about the legality of it and not the silly semantics? Wow, I guess I got trolled.... can't even try to serious discuss the legalities of things in CA and not some irrelevant semantics regarding a ban that doesn't even exist anymore. Was your goal to just post nonsense and try to confuse as many people as possible? Congratulations, you succeeded. Hopefully people will ignore your nonsense and just read the PC.

Apparently YOU CAN NOT READ , If you can your a LIAR , either your spreading FUD or you lied about what you said." There are no pre/post ban magazines in CA" ( That was an absolute YOU STATED ) SO which is it FUD or LIE?

I NEVER said possession was illegal , I commented on the statement you made " THERE ARE NO PRE/POST MAGAZINES IN CA."

I then stated a FACT, There are Pre/post ban magazines ( wither or not the ban is in effect or not, They can still be pre/post magazines) You need to carefully read and then try to understand what has been said , especially what came off your tongue/fingers.

And since you believe there is not currently a ban on " standard" capacity magazines in CA and have not said as much , you only mentioned that the past Fed ban was no longer in effect , then you spreading either a LIE or FUD because you can not purchase/lend( with exceptions)/manufacture/import anything that holds more than 10 rounds in CA. In fact the are listed and can be taken as a nuisance ( Right?)

Get a grip and try reading WHAT I POSTED , NOT WHAT YOU THINK I POSTED

Dude, you're the one who needs to "get a grip" and calm down.

"preban" and "post ban" are political buzzwords in the same vein as "assault weapon" "common sense" and "meaningful regulation."

They're meant to illicit an emotional response like the one you're having right now.
You say there is a ban on standard capacity magazines, stating you cannot import manufacture or sell them. However this is the very definition of the FUD which you are accusing him or spreading. The law clearly states what is illegal, and possession is not on that list.
Dates stamped on any magazine parts do not make the magazine "preban" in any way. How is a magazine with a date on it legally accounted for?

Now, legally owned 10+ mags can be misused, and when use improperly they can be nuisance items. But if you're using a lawfully acquired 10+ mag, in a lawful manner, and you surrender it to LEOs without contest, you're already relinquishing the tenuous rights we are currently clinging to.

Blatant violations of the 4th amendment happen daily because of the FUD that You, sir, are spreading.

Why must so many thoughtful and inquisitive posts from an OP degenerate in to a s&*t-storm between two contributors who feel the need to pee on one another while the rest of us watch, hoping to learn something from the original post?
Growing up in NY, the proper term is 'take it outside'. PM, email, whatever but no one is benefitting by such wanton snits between two all-knowing-wannabe's.
B

Sorry to say it but this happens nearly every time someone asks a question about what's legal and what's not here in CA. Some folks just gotta have the last word even if it has nothing to do with the original question. Sad but true.

This is the same as the question on whether you can install a feed ramp to run AK mags in an unconverted Saiga. Some say yes, some say no. I recommend being on the safe side. Do you want to be the test case?

Your understanding is incorrect. A military member on PCS orders is considered a resident of the state, and relinquishes certain things from their home state, such as firearms purchases. Technically if you PCS to Cali, you can't go on leave and buy a gun in your home state.

That doesn't stop people from doing do. But it is technically illegal. Likewise, when PCSing with firearms, you're not importing because you're moving. You're supposed to fill out the DOJ form for off roster handguns, I'm not sure about any other paperwork.

You can't bring listed assault weapons like the AR-15s so most people strip the lower and sell it out of state before moving, then buy a stripped ca lower. I believe >10 mags must be disassembled but I'm not positive.

Unless the firearms are kept and used in a federal military installation and range your good to go. But good luck getting your COC to approve and or get your CO to approve and provide a signed letterhead authorizing storage of firearms on post/ in armory. If you live in base housing and not barracks, check with MP's or provost marshall of installation regualtions.