As a matter of fact, it is possible to have a negative pH. Since pH is defined as -log[H+], where [H+] is the concentration of hydronium ions, all that is needed is for [H+] to be greater than 1 mole/liter. Admittedly, an extreme situation, not even likely to occur in 2010 German rieslings.

Wow, I only had a few very low level 2010 German rieslings this summer but to hear about the screeching acidity not only from the drier style of the Lauer but from this usually rs friendly wine is something. I may have to get out there and start drinking these wines just to see for myself. Perhaps before the end of the year!

I opened a 2008 A.J. Adams Dhroner Riesling from the Mosel last nite with crab cakes and lobster bisque and a great match it was. I assume this is a QBA but the label is unclear. It was medium-bodied, Kabinette-like with spicy pear and then lots of citrus on the finish. Maybe a bit of chalkiness also.There was a slight spritzyness that was cleansing and bordered on but did not become tart. ABV was %10.5. Kind of reminded me of a 2003 Burklin-Wolf Gaisbohl but not as varied in flavors but just as expensive at $22 on deep discount. Originally $37 IIRC. I think I can find much better QPR German Rieslings out there!

Last night pulled a bottle out of the fridge and it was matched perfectly --- 3 glasses, 3 people and conversation.Some brief notes over time, and clearly its tiime has come:

2002 Weingut Josef Leitz Rüdesheimer Klosterlay Riesling Kabinett - Germany, Rheingau (10/13/2011)Boy is this good. The sweetness has become muted and is true Kabinett now, and there is still lots of fruit. Some lemon and minerals. The acid is vibrant and perfectly balanced. It has developed a little creaminess. No note of honey in this bottle. Drinking great and don't think it's going anywhere soon. $9.59 well spent!

2002 Weingut Josef Leitz Rüdesheimer Klosterlay Riesling Kabinett - Germany, Rheingau (8/2/2008)Boatload of acid, which is needed to balance the ripeness and sweetness. Yellow fruits and some early honey. Enjoyable now but could use more time to get itself together.

2002 Weingut Josef Leitz Rüdesheimer Klosterlay Riesling Kabinett - Germany, Rheingau (3/12/2006)Impressive acid dominates significant sugar. It was drinkable now with braised pork in apricots and veggies, but I will wait a couple of years for the next one.

A very clear, transparent, pure, slightly golden yellow with a green tinge to it.It immediately smells lovely: delicate, of old forest wood and fungus, lemon and lime rind, cream.In the mouth it's richly flavoured and slightly honeyed, yet light in weight, with a gentle sweetness, balancing light acidity that plays a supporting role without dominating in any way.It is simply delicious. I would have liked to see flavours of slate and/or kerosene, but it didn't matter that I didn't because it was very good anyway.

What's even greater is that, at 8.5% abv, one can drink 1.5 times more of this than a 13% abv wine for the same alcohol consumption - which is just as well, because this wine is particularly easy to drink.

A note like that isn't helping me keep away from my 07 Haart Piesporter Grafenberg Spatlese... may have to check into one this weekend.

I'll also second the praise for the 01 Leitz Klosterlay QBA. Ridiculously good wine. Leitz's 01s are so, so good (and as I'd mentioned elsewhere, it's a shame nobody mentions them while raving about the brilliant lineups from Donnhoff, Muller-Catoir and Christoffel in 2001).

Just got started reading this thread and only partway through. I will have to open some Rieslings in the next two weeks.To Matt D--you might look for the 2010 St. Michelle Cold Creek Vineyard Riesling. I haven't had that vintage but liked the Cold Creek Vineyard Riesling best of several St. Michelle Rieslings at a tasting one time and the notes say the 2010 was from a cooler vintage so has a fresh, crisp character. It received 90 points from "Wine Advocate" for those that follow points ratings.

One point that hasn’t been really touched on here is how inexpensive fine German Riesling can be. We enjoyed a pounded-out, rolled chicken breast similar in texture (but way different in spices) to what David Bueker described on the Forum Kitchen. OK, Pruem and others are up there, but they aren’t close to charging what Lafitte or Biondi-Santi require. Keep your benjamins handy if that’s your game, but it’s still possible to sip absolutely top-drawer Riesling for less than $40. And there’s not much drop-off. To accompany the briefly-described chicken dish mentioned above, we drank Selbach-Oster 2007 Riesling feinherb. No named vineyard, so this is probably the bottom end of the S-O line. Even so, we paid about $10 for what we regretfully—it was the last bottle—enjoyed. Still a slight spritz and really cold stone—no quarrel with asparagus.

2010 Rheinhold Haart Wintricher Ohligsberg Riesling SpatleseWonderful wine - if completely primary. There is a ton of peachy fruit laced with lime, buttressed by a healthy dose of residual sugar that properly balances the acidity. This really is a bit of a beast, but it's a well mannered beast that worked very well our Indian meal.

2001 Carl von Schubert Maximin Grunhaus Abstberg Riesling AusleseWhat a contrast. The Haart all brash and brawn, the Grunhaus cool and minerally with a depth that has to be plumbed rather than just being in your face. Obviously there's an effect from the aging, but the Grunhaus has in some ways marked the time. The 2001 is more an older style wine, and side by side with the Haart is stayed in the shadows. But on its own it was a star, with more complexity than can reasonably fit in a bottle. Lovely wine.

There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.

Pale gold color. The aromatics took a while to unfold, with ripe grapefruit and peach hovering over a slightly smoky, salty base. It was still quite rich and sweet, though the acids balanced it well, and the richness was a good counterpoint to a rather spicy Thai curry. This has years ahead of it.

There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.

We had a couple of rieslings last night, the 2010 Egon Muller Scharzhofberger Kabinett which was deliciously ripe and not at all fierce yet of course well-focused. In Salil's words, it 'vaporized' rather quickly. The 2007 Haart Piesporter Grafenberg Spatlese was also plenty delicious in my book, although some (Salil) complained it was too soft and simple.

David M. Bueker wrote:I would think that if you had the Haart after the Muller it would appear soft and simple if you cold not taste it on its own merits.

Tell that to Salil! Although he said something about being spoiled by too much Prager and Alzinger recently. Or something like that.

Yeah, that's how I meant it (i.e. to Salil). He's focused...that's for sure.

It's easy to get spoiled with the parade of riches we sometimes drink (him more than most of us...at least lately). I was actually trolling the cellar last night for something "simple." I ended up with the Catoir due to food matching, but really wanted something less exalted.

There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.

Rahsaan wrote:We had a couple of rieslings last night, the 2010 Egon Muller Scharzhofberger Kabinett which was deliciously ripe and not at all fierce yet of course well-focused. In Salil's words, it 'vaporized' rather quickly. The 2007 Haart Piesporter Grafenberg Spatlese was also plenty delicious in my book, although some (Salil) complained it was too soft and simple.

I've had this complaint with a bunch of other 2007s - a lot of the wines just left me craving more acidity and cut, and I found the Haart a little too opulent though quite tasty.

The Muller was brilliant, amazed that he could pull off a wine with such finesse in a vintage like 2010 where just about every wine I've tasted had immensely high extracts and acidity levels.

Re. Alzinger, yes I've been getting spoiled by Steinertal. But I also opened a 2008 Prager Riesling Smaragd Achleiten on Friday that was outstanding. A little lighter than the '07, more steely and acidic but still superbly balanced with bright Meyer lemon, grapefruit and orange blossom flavours over a mineral base, conveying flavour with incredible precision and clarity.

Salil wrote:Re. Alzinger, yes I've been getting spoiled by Steinertal. But I also opened a 2008 Prager Riesling Smaragd Achleiten on Friday that was outstanding. A little lighter than the '07, more steely and acidic but still superbly balanced with bright Meyer lemon, grapefruit and orange blossom flavours over a mineral base, conveying flavour with incredible precision and clarity.

you do realize that you are just proving our point...

There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.

2011 Hart's Wine Cellar Riesling - Harvested about 200 lbs. on 10/15. Should get about 13-15 gallons, or about 70 bottles. Crushed and de-stemmed on 10/17. 19.5 Brix; 0.825 TA; 2.90 pH. I will be pressing and pitching the yeast tomorrow (10/18). The juice tastes very good! I will be freezing a portion of the juice to add back for sweetening, prior to bottling, sometime in the Spring (sussreserve).

I put in a K&L order for these: 2009 Rabl Steinhaus Riesling 2006 Jacob's Creek Steingarten Riesling Barossa Valley 2010 Pacific Rim Columbia Valley Riesling Anyone try them? The last had this quote: "#1 Best Buy on Wine Enthusiast's Top 100 Best Buys of 2011"I don't hold much hope. I've never liked a west coast riesling -only Germany, Alsace or Niagara. I would love to find a good under $10 Riesling.

Someone else mentioned Baden earlier in the thread. I quite like Baden. Actually fell in love with German wines thanks to Baden. I was there at a wine fest in '86 and they had these '76 TBAs that blew my mind. Frankly have never had a desert wine like it sense.I also loved the combination of the kabinett and spatlese with the wurst and sauerkraut.I have also enjoyed the Trimbach Reisling - especially the Emile bottling

I can't say much about your first three selections, other than that I have never been impressed by the Pacific Rim Riesling.

As for value wines, I will say that there are some lovely bottles out there in liters for around $12-$14, which equates to around $10 for a 750 ml. Look at liter wines from Gysler, Strub, Minges, Reuscher-Haart etc. from Germany.

There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.