I'd like you to show me where anybody in this thread is "pissing on" Liles.

I never said you were doing it, if that's what you're getting at.

While it may not be considered pissing on him, there has definitely been some run around and downplaying of him and his talents to perceive a low trade value. Knee Seeking Scud definitely took a stab at him, but it's easier to just laugh at him given his blatant homerism for everything Stars.

Pissed on may not be the best term to use here, but it definitely seems every time his name is brought up we see the same arguments: terrible contract, one-dimensional, doesn't score enough, can't play big minutes, too soft. There have been points where some of those could have been made, but he has made solid progress to his overall game and has continually responded to the knocks brought on him.

I'm not saying he's worth the 8th overall, not even close. I'm not trying to call him elite. I'm not saying he's better than Chara. I'm not saying he's ever going to be in the running for the Norris, nor am I saying he should be. My post above, in collaboration with Shadow, was to show what he actually brings in comparison to other (perceived) elite offensive defenders. I know no one's mind will be changed (probably ever) by pointing this out, it just gets old seeing the same double standard time after time.