If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

FACT.....Ben PLUS a top run game HAS NEVER produced a bad season. Always a contender.

Proof?
We have rushed 500 times in a season 3 times with Ben as QB. Results:
2004 best Steeler regular season record in history with Ben as a ROOKIE.
2005 Super Bowl champs, second highest scoring offense of Bens career.
2007 highest scoring team of Bens career. Bens highest QB rating, his most TDs DESPITE throwing FAR LESS than he would in subsequent seasons.

Our offense was at it's VERY BEST under Ben when we fed the rock to the backs A TON.

When we pass more it has been a mixed bag.

For example:

We DID get a Super Bowl in 2008 with the 20th scoring offense and the number one defense featuring not one but TWO Steelers defenders having the best seasons of their careers vying for LEAGUE DMVP.

THAT ain't because our offense carried the team.

We have NEVER had a bad offense with Ben when our run game was dominant.
We have never missed a playoff with an emphasis on the run.

I am loving the look of our three headed monster at running back and the expressed desire to get back to what it used to be.

Proof?
We have rushed 500 times in a season 3 times with Ben as QB. Results:
2004 best Steeler regular season record in history with Ben as a ROOKIE.
2005 Super Bowl champs, second highest scoring offense of Bens career.
2007 highest scoring team of Bens career. Bens highest QB rating, his most TDs DESPITE throwing FAR LESS than he would in subsequent seasons.

Our offense was at it's VERY BEST under Ben when we fed the rock to the backs A TON.

When we pass more it has been a mixed bag.

For example:

We DID get a Super Bowl in 2008 with the 20th scoring offense and the number one defense featuring not one but TWO Steelers defenders having the best seasons of their careers vying for LEAGUE DMVP.

THAT ain't because our offense carried the team.

We have NEVER had a bad offense with Ben when our run game was dominant.
We have never missed a playoff with an emphasis on the run.

I am loving the look of our three headed monster at running back and the expressed desire to get back to what it used to be.

Simple analysis like this one cracks me up. Guess what? They would run all the time if they could get away with it. Guess why they pass more in the less successful seasons? You think passing more makes them less successful? Try again. They throw more because they have no choice. The last two years they were behind in many of the games, could not run the ball, and were forced to throw because A.) They couldn't rush the ball, and, B.) They were too far behind and had to throw in an attempt to catch up. Understand? It's not a simple matter of "If we rush more we win." Everything is interconnected. Also, if our D is not playing solid, that also means we are taken out of our rushing game, because we fall behind. Trust me, if they could win and only throw the ball 15-20 times, they would do it every week.

But I do agree that you can still rush the ball a lot and win rings. Seattle just proved it. SF also rushes a lot. While Peyton Manning dazzles us with prolific passing during the season, come the final championship game, all that hire wire passing failed him. But again, it's not as simple as "If you rush more, you win." If it were that simple, we'd see Pgh rushing it 70% of the time, if they only could.

2007 under Arians was my favorite offensive play calling of Bens career. Every season since we run more than we pass as does MOST of the league thus the rankings Crash cites.

Buck the popular trend and we were never better. My next post will prove it.

I will grant this....balance gets the lead but we RAN to kill the clock. That leads to higher rush attempts overall early in Bens career. It was AWESOME.

Well, even if you get a lead, that doesn't mean you can run the ball, no matter how much you want to. Until late last season, we simply couldn't rush the ball the last few years. They tried, but just had such a lousy O-line that they just couldn't do it. It wasn't until we got the worst LT in the NFL off the field that we could rush the ball a little bit.

Simple analysis like this one cracks me up. Guess what? They would run all the time if they could get away with it. Guess why they pass more in the less successful seasons? You think passing more makes them less successful? Try again. They throw more because they have no choice. The last two years they were behind in many of the games, could not run the ball, and were forced to throw because A.) They couldn't rush the ball, and, B.) They were too far behind and had to throw in an attempt to catch up. Understand? It's not a simple matter of "If we rush more we win." Everything is interconnected. Also, if our D is not playing solid, that also means we are taken out of our rushing game, because we fall behind. Trust me, if they could win and only throw the ball 15-20 times, they would do it every week.

But I do agree that you can still rush the ball a lot and win rings. Seattle just proved it. SF also rushes a lot. While Peyton Manning dazzles us with prolific passing during the season, come the final championship game, all that hire wire passing failed him. But again, it's not as simple as "If you rush more, you win." If it were that simple, we'd see Pgh rushing it 70% of the time, if they only could.

It is that simple...

improve the run blocking and we can run more often and it also sets up the PA

improve the run blocking and we can run more often and it also sets up the PA

If it were that simple to accomplish, they would have done so two years ago. Obviously, they did everything they could think of but it wasn't enough. I believe the downfall started when they ignored drafting for the OL since 2005. Recently, they have used some higher picks for the OL, but they made poor draft picks. Adams and Gilbert were huge misses, but, in all reality, they should have draft some OLmen early before that. Remember when Tomlin, in an excessively cocky manner, told that reporter that there are ways to help Ben other than drafting OLmen? We have been paying for that arrogance ever since.

Simple analysis like this one cracks me up. Guess what? They would run all the time if they could get away with it. Guess why they pass more in the less successful seasons? You think passing more makes them less successful? Try again. They throw more because they have no choice. The last two years they were behind in many of the games, could not run the ball, and were forced to throw because A.) They couldn't rush the ball, and, B.) They were too far behind and had to throw in an attempt to catch up. Understand? It's not a simple matter of "If we rush more we win." Everything is interconnected. Also, if our D is not playing solid, that also means we are taken out of our rushing game, because we fall behind. Trust me, if they could win and only throw the ball 15-20 times, they would do it every week.

But I do agree that you can still rush the ball a lot and win rings. Seattle just proved it. SF also rushes a lot. While Peyton Manning dazzles us with prolific passing during the season, come the final championship game, all that hire wire passing failed him. But again, it's not as simple as "If you rush more, you win." If it were that simple, we'd see Pgh rushing it 70% of the time, if they only could.

Your first paragraph contains truth. But most teams with elite QBs do not do what you describe no matter HOW effective the run game is because "it is a passing league".

I have ALWAYS BELIEVED that quality QB plus dominating run game will trump glory stat QB every time. Even Peyton got his ring the only time he did that.

As you correctly state, Seattle has made that case quite well.

Your last paragraph describes the philosophical difference I have had with Crash. I fully understand that recent running game struggles forced us to pass more. I agree with this.

However, no matter how awesome the run game is with potential THAT YOU AND I BOTH are giddy about, Crash HATES running any offense that he thinks hampers Ben from putting up big numbers.

WHEN WE HAD Bettis and Parker Crash was frustrated that Ben was "handcuffed" by the play calling DESPITE ridiculous success. We would be better with Ben passing more he insisted. Well we have seen it and time has proved Crash wrong.

THAT IS WHY I bring up Bens early years as examples proving Crash was wrong.

Your first paragraph contains truth. But most teams with elite QBs do not do what you describe no matter HOW effective the run game is because "it is a passing league".

Your last paragraph describes the philosophical difference I have had with Crash. I fully understand that recent running game struggles forced us to pass more.

No matter how awesome the run game is with potential THAT YOU AND I BOTH are giddy about, Crash HATES running any offense that he thinks hampers Ben from putting up big numbers.

WHEN WE HAD Bettis and Parker Crash was frustrated that Ben was "handcuffed" by the play calling. We would be better with Ben passing more. Well we have seen it and time has proved Crash wrong.

THAT IS WHY I bring up Bens early years as examples proving Crash was wrong.

We don't really disagree then. I give two craps about Ben's #s, I care about only one #: scoreboard. I know the league has gone pass happy, mostly due to how the rules are and how they are enforced; but Seattle and SF both prove that you can still be a physical power rushing team and win a lot. Sure, you can't have an inept passing game to make it, but you don't have to go all Peyton Manning to make it happen. Plus, when defenses have to honor the rush, play action does wonders. When they can just laugh at your rushing attack, bad things happen.

If it were that simple to accomplish, they would have done so two years ago. Obviously, they did everything they could think of but it wasn't enough. I believe the downfall started when they ignored drafting for the OL since 2005. Recently, they have used some higher picks for the OL, but they made poor draft picks. Adams and Gilbert were huge misses, but, in all reality, they should have draft some OLmen early before that. Remember when Tomlin, in an excessively cocky manner, told that reporter that there are ways to help Ben other than drafting OLmen? We have been paying for that arrogance ever since.

We won the SB in 2008 with a horrible OL...

In 2010 drafted Pouncey followed by recent picks like DD, Gilbert and Adams...

We don't really disagree then. I give two craps about Ben's #s, I care about only one #: scoreboard. I know the league has gone pass happy, mostly due to how the rules are and how they are enforced; but Seattle and SF both prove that you can still be a physical power rushing team and win a lot. Sure, you can't have an inept passing game to make it, but you don't have to go all Peyton Manning to make it happen. Plus, when defenses have to honor the rush, play action does wonders. When they can just laugh at your rushing attack, bad things happen.

We don't really disagree then. I give two craps about Ben's #s, I care about only one #: scoreboard. I know the league has gone pass happy, mostly due to how the rules are and how they are enforced; but Seattle and SF both prove that you can still be a physical power rushing team and win a lot. Sure, you can't have an inept passing game to make it, but you don't have to go all Peyton Manning to make it happen. Plus, when defenses have to honor the rush, play action does wonders. When they can just laugh at your rushing attack, bad things happen.

Exactly. We disagree on plenty......this is not one of those areas.
You have described EXACTLY my POV on the topic.