you blamed a 3-0 loss, at home, to an injury, poor substitution, and an 8 hour flight... surely you can see the hypocrisy in that...

Hell, Juve barely played their game and still saw Celtic off by three. If i was a Hoops fan I'd be asking more serious questions of my manager

2 of the goals were gifts by a player who made mistakes. I blame both the player for saying he was okay to play and the manager for playing him. You won't find two easier goals in the tournament. Slightly tighter at the back at those two plays/Ambrose doesn't play and it's 1-0 to Juventus with all to play for. Juventus second goal was a great cut back. Credit to Juventus for pouncing on the opportunities given to them. Far more clinical than Barcelona were, which is ultimately one of Barcelona's flaws at times (trying to walk the goal into the net)

Lennon won't be under any pressure at the moment. He is a young coach who is still learning with a young team, average age of 23. I think if we got to this stage next season or the season after and the same mistakes were being made then yeah I would agree.

Ignoring the broken record bastard that is Peach, Arsenal were outmatched simple as that. I am a bit happy that Arsenal did accomplish something very few have done, score on Bayern, which isn't remotely close to being much of an accomplishment and it happened by questionable means. Arsenal's defense did play fairly well today and only made 3 legitimate mistakes in the match, of course all 3 resulted in Bayern's goals. Overall, it was the fact that Bayern had more clinical finishing while Arsenal couldn't break down arguably the best defense in Europe currently, not to mention Arsenal couldn't take 3 steps without 5 black jerseys surrounding them, that decided this match.

Don't get all sphincty, Gate. In the premier league thread, you alluded to Arsenal having a good chance against Bayern. I told you Arsenal had no chance, and they didn't/don't. You need to accept the fact that Arsenal, like Liverpool, are now mediocre at best and will likely not have CL football next year.

peachesenregalia wrote:Don't get all sphincty, Gate. In the premier league thread, you alluded to Arsenal having a good chance against Bayern. I told you Arsenal had no chance, and they didn't/don't. You need to accept the fact that Arsenal, like Liverpool, are now mediocre at best and will likely not have CL football next year.

Its becoming more apparent that the only thing that keeps Wenger at the Emirates is a top 4 finish, and even thats precarious.

I would say that Wilshere's time is becoming limited there as well, despite the new contract.

By the way peaches, have you seen the tackle that sent California native and Liverpool Academy player Marc Pelosi to the hospital? brutal. feel bad for the kid, as he was showing great promise. Even West Brom's academy kids are brutish

Gatehawk wrote:Ignoring the broken record bastard that is Peach, Arsenal were outmatched simple as that. I am a bit happy that Arsenal did accomplish something very few have done, score on Bayern, which isn't remotely close to being much of an accomplishment and it happened by questionable means. Arsenal's defense did play fairly well today and only made 3 legitimate mistakes in the match, of course all 3 resulted in Bayern's goals. Overall, it was the fact that Bayern had more clinical finishing while Arsenal couldn't break down arguably the best defense in Europe currently, not to mention Arsenal couldn't take 3 steps without 5 black jerseys surrounding them, that decided this match.

this was a classic mismatch. It could have been 5-6 goals. Bayern truly showing their class. No offense to Arsenal, that Bayern team would roll through the PL with ease.

MANUNITED23 wrote:So what the heck happened to the so called class of Europe Barcelona? Excellent effort by Milan, I can see them holding on to reach quarter finals. All they really need is one goal away.

Fair play to Milan. They did the same thing Chelsea did last year. Barca struggle when the other team defends their lines well. Barca were hard done by the first goal, but despite a massive possession advantage Milan desreved the second and were just as dangerous all night.

Still think they will have to score one more to get through. But who knows. They really confounded Barca

Well, what Milan is going to do at Camp Nau is defend, defend and defend while looking for a quick counter attack. I have a feeling that they would find a way to win on aggregate. Regardless of the result it should be a great match to watch.

MANUNITED23 wrote:So what the heck happened to the so called class of Europe Barcelona? Excellent effort by Milan, I can see them holding on to reach quarter finals. All they really need is one goal away.

peachesenregalia wrote:Unreal. I just want to not care. And when Zenit scored, I pretty much accepted the loss.

Now it's 3-1 and we just need one more to go through (assuming they don't score again.)

COME ON THE REDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even though I wasn't able to watch because of the new job this loss has left me gutted on a lot of levels.

No more European play for Carragher, and likely Gerrard. When the team gets back into Europe our squad will look dramatically different than it does now, Hopefully Suarez and Sturridge are still with us.

Our season is essentially over now. Sure 6th place looks better than 8th but it doesn't mean anything besides a little less embarrassment.

Pretty much, ISWT. But this is what I expected going in to the season, although I would have preferred a deeper cup run or two.

Number one priority has to be keeping Suarez. He's tied up long term, so it'd cost the guts of 50-60 mil for someone to buy him, but stranger things have happened (Torres).

Carra and Gerrard have to go. I'm sad to say that about Stevie, but it's time. Allen isn't giving us what we need, either. Lucas is still good and Shelvey has looked decent at times, same with Hendo, but we need more quality in the middle of the pitch. Hopefully Sterling can find form again. Need a big imposing CB back there, and a LB.

Stevie has to go? Come on peaches. He wasn't strong last night but he's been performing as one of the stronger CMs in the PL, especially over the last three months. His renewed run of form is very promising.

I'm just not devastated by last night. Great match, and a quality victory over a very good Zenit squad. I still think European football is a real possibility next year as 5Th isn't unattainable. Also, and I find this funny, we are second for the Fair Play spot behind Chelsea, who probably won't need it.

As for next year, yes Carra, Skrtel must go. I don't see a place for Shelvey, as I think Henderson and Allen should be the reserve CMs. We need two new cbacks (one that can start), a new CM that can run the field well and a new winger (which may send Downing packing.) A new leftback may be necessary as well.

I think we will see a nice run in league to end our season. I assume some bumps in the road along the way as well. Now worse than 6th

I just don't see it with Stevie, Simon. He's a Liverpool great, but I honestly feel he's holding us back right now. We have no creativity coming out of the middle of the park at all. I think the strike pairing of Sturridge and Suarez is fantastic, I think Coutinho, Sterling, Assaidi and even henderson all have potential going forward, and I think we need some better defenders. It's going to be a long road to recovery, and it starts with moving on from players like Carra and Stevie G.

After watching the match from Thursday.......I just can't put it into words the effort and passion showed by our boys, especially Suarez.

Does Gerrard have on and off games? Yes. Do I believe he is stunting someone's growth by always being on the team sheet? Absolutely not. Allen, Henderson, or Shelvey over him on a consistent basis? You're having a laugh, sir.

I'm sorry guys, but this is the problem with Liverpool fans. No-one is bigger than the club, not even Stevie. Keeping him in there just because it's Gerrard is holding the club back. I'm not saying any one particular player's growth is being stunted, but the TEAM needs to move on. It's painful, and it shouldn't happen until the season is over, but it's time. We're not consistent enough, and it's because Gerrard isn't consistent enough. Sometimes you just have to move on as a club from players who are no longer helping you to win.

peachesenregalia wrote:I'm sorry guys, but this is the problem with Liverpool fans. No-one is bigger than the club, not even Stevie. Keeping him in there just because it's Gerrard is holding the club back. I'm not saying any one particular player's growth is being stunted, but the TEAM needs to move on. It's painful, and it shouldn't happen until the season is over, but it's time. We're not consistent enough, and it's because Gerrard isn't consistent enough. Sometimes you just have to move on as a club from players who are no longer helping you to win.

I honestly disagree with this almost 100%. I do agree we are inconsistent (so i disagree with your post alomsot 90%), but it is not on Gerrards shoulders. Its not him that is wasteful around the goal, and its certainly not him making laughable defensive and goalkeeping errors in games. Gerrard's decison making with the ball has not been the same as in years past. However, its better than last season and seems improving as he himself gets comfortable with a 433. But Gerrard is a far better option than Joe Allen, Jordan Henderson, Jonjho Shelvey... and its not real close right now. I'm sorry, I dont see him stunting their development. I like Jordan Henderson and Joe Allen, but they are 3-4 years from handling a midfield on their own. The Oldham game clearly reflected that. And I dont believe that any of those three fit the same role that Gerrard does.

Now, if we pass up on a top drawer CAM in transfer (such as Isco, Ericksen, etc.) because "we have Gerrard" than i'd be more apt to agree with you.

Im far from afraid to lose Stevie. I just disagree with your premise on losing him. He's not holding this team back. He may in a couple years, or may if stronger, younger players are brought in. But right now and looking at the next season Gerrard is one of our best three mids. Until someone in the squad shows more promise why would we ship him off?

More consistent defending and better finishing and this team is in the top 4 this season. that's it. That's been the issue. the midfield hasnt been able to fully adopt to their roles in the 433 (and Rodgers passing philosophy) but none of the squad has. I think Gerrard has been the only mid player who sees the different levels of passing available. I'd hate to restrict our possession and attack by not having the one player who can move beyond the triangle system of Rodgers when it breaks down (which it does far too often with our group because they arent accustomed to it)

Just my thoughts. If Gerrard does go (and i think 2014-2015 is more realistic) it has to be because he is standing in the way of someone impactful not simply serviceable.

We'll have to agree to disagree. you're still not understanding what I'm saying. Stevie is holding the TEAM back. He's not a fit for Rodgers' system, and he's still looked to by the team to help them win games and he's just not capable anymore. Yes, we're wasteful in front of goal, but there's just no spark coming from the middle of the park anymore. We're being consistently out-played and out-muscled in midfield, and Gerrard is a big part of that. Stevie's position is one of the most important on the field, and he's not helping us win games anymore. It's time to move on from him.

peachesenregalia wrote:We'll have to agree to disagree. you're still not understanding what I'm saying. Stevie is holding the TEAM back. He's not a fit for Rodgers' system, and he's still looked to by the team to help them win games and he's just not capable anymore. Yes, we're wasteful in front of goal, but there's just no spark coming from the middle of the park anymore. We're being consistently out-played and out-muscled in midfield, and Gerrard is a big part of that. Stevie's position is one of the most important on the field, and he's not helping us win games anymore. It's time to move on from him.

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment of Gerrard. I just disagree (or if you didn't say this) don't think there is anyone currently on the squad that could bring wjat he currently does to the squad. Like I said if we bring in 1-2 new cms that immediately can stand in than yes, you bid farewell to Gerrard. Until that happens sadly he's the best we have in the middle. I like the progress of Shelvey, Henderson and Allen, but they're all only 20-21. We need someone of experience to link that gro

Yeah, that seems to be where the disconnect is here. I'm not saying we have his replacement on the current squad, but we need to bring in his replacement. Maybe it is Allen and he'd be better without Gerrard in there? I don't know.

As for names, I'm really not sure. I don't think we can afford a big name, so we may have to settle. What about moving Coutinho into the middle as a CAM? I dunno. Just think we'll be better off moving on from Stevie.

I just watched the red card again a few times without commentary. That was a dark dark orange card at the very least. Probably shouldn't be, but seeing as you can get a yellow card either for going in studs up and getting all ball or for even slightly mistiming a tackle on occasions then Nani can't have many complaints. Arbeloa was taking evasive action and ended up with a boot in his chest. Considering the impact it has on the game to send him off I think it should be a yellow, but an understandable red given today's climate.

Hawkspur wrote:I just watched the red card again a few times without commentary. That was a dark dark orange card at the very least. Probably shouldn't be, but seeing as you can get a yellow card either for going in studs up and getting all ball or for even slightly mistiming a tackle on occasions then Nani can't have many complaints. Arbeloa was taking evasive action and ended up with a boot in his chest. Considering the impact it has on the game to send him off I think it should be a yellow, but an understandable red given today's climate.

Cant disagree... really, Nani put himself to the clatter, regardless of intent, and left it to the ref. Again, Roy Keane said it best.... "did Nani really think he had 20 yards of field?" Thought what was interesting was how long the ref waited before pulling red. I feel like he was conferring with the sideline officials. Either way, it wasnt rash not spur of the moment. He took a good minute or so while he waited.

Harsh decision... maybe a bit unfair. but hard to say it was wrong ultimately. But really harsh. I would be lost if it was Liverpool tbf.

Hawkspur wrote:I just watched the red card again a few times without commentary. That was a dark dark orange card at the very least. Probably shouldn't be, but seeing as you can get a yellow card either for going in studs up and getting all ball or for even slightly mistiming a tackle on occasions then Nani can't have many complaints. Arbeloa was taking evasive action and ended up with a boot in his chest. Considering the impact it has on the game to send him off I think it should be a yellow, but an understandable red given today's climate.

Cant disagree... really, Nani put himself to the clatter, regardless of intent, and left it to the ref. Again, Roy Keane said it best.... "did Nani really think he had 20 yards of field?" Thought what was interesting was how long the ref waited before pulling red. I feel like he was conferring with the sideline officials. Either way, it wasnt rash not spur of the moment. He took a good minute or so while he waited.

Harsh decision... maybe a bit unfair. but hard to say it was wrong ultimately. But really harsh. I would be lost if it was Liverpool tbf.

Having watched the incident, I think the red was ultimately correct. Can't believe I agree with Roy Keane, but if anyone knows the dangers of violent challenges, it's him. Nani can have no complaints. Nor can Fergie, that hypocritical old bastard. I forget who it was kicked the ball at RVPs head earlier in the year when Fergie thought he should have been sent off because it 'could have killed' RVP, but yet Nani goes in studs up with an uncontrolled lunge and a red is harsh? Get a grip.

Yes, the red did turn the tide in favor of Real, but there was still a lot of football left to play, no guarantee that Real wouldn't have pulled it out anyway.

peachesenregalia wrote:Well, hard lines, GateHawk. Arsenal fought well, but Like Liverpool a couple of weeks ago, came up just short.

Honestly, that scoreline was exactly what I predicted. Though I had done so when it wasn't known that Szczesny, Wilshere and Podolski were going to miss out.

My belief that Arsenal could have done it shot through the roof in those first 3 minutes when Giroud's sweaty goal was scored, not sure if it would have happened if Alaba hadn't slipped in the build up. I started to get nervous again as the game went on and when Koscielny scored, I really thought they could pull it off. But in the end it wasn't to be.

Fabianski's performance in goal was definitely worthy of a man of the match, at least in my opinion, and he may well have put Szczesny on notice that he wants that starting job back. It's also good to see Gibbs back.

I still am proud of the fight Arsenal showed, wish they had played like that more in the 1st leg as well, and I sure as hell hope they use this will launch them into a top 4 finish, as that's all they have left to play for again.

peachesenregalia wrote:Well, hard lines, GateHawk. Arsenal fought well, but Like Liverpool a couple of weeks ago, came up just short.

Honestly, that scoreline was exactly what I predicted. Though I had done so when it wasn't known that Szczesny, Wilshere and Podolski were going to miss out.

My belief that Arsenal could have done it shot through the roof in those first 3 minutes when Giroud's sweaty goal was scored, not sure if it would have happened if Alaba hadn't slipped in the build up. I started to get nervous again as the game went on and when Koscielny scored, I really thought they could pull it off. But in the end it wasn't to be.

Fabianski's performance in goal was definitely worthy of a man of the match, at least in my opinion, and he may well have put Szczesny on notice that he wants that starting job back. It's also good to see Gibbs back.

I still am proud of the fight Arsenal showed, wish they had played like that more in the 1st leg as well, and I sure as hell hope they use this will launch them into a top 4 finish, as that's all they have left to play for again.

it was a nice win for Arsenal. still in shock Bayern hadnt scored 3-4 goals. Fabianski was brilliant. Will be interesting to see what impact the game has on them for the run in. Honestly that scoreline could have been 2-2, or even 3/4-2 Bayern. It would have been fair, and I wonder what Arsenal would have come away thinking. (and Bayern for that matter... they were rightfully doubtful at the end. Arsenal looked far more likely to score a 3rd then they did a 1st the last 8 minutes)

Instead Fabianski (and some fantastic penalty box tackling from the back four) kept it at 0 and now gives Arsenal a boost. Heroic job.

Gatehawk wrote:Spurs beat Inter 3-0 with Gareth Bale, without him, they concede 3 goals and go to extra time. Shows how much they rely on them doesn't it? It's the fear factor that's different.

well that, and he's one of the top 4 players in the world.

I dont mind the away goal rule, but dont think it should apply with extra time. Feel like Inter was hard done by that. Still, Spurs have to be breathing a deep, deep sigh of relief. I cant imagine they expected any of that.

Gatehawk wrote:Spurs beat Inter 3-0 with Gareth Bale, without him, they concede 3 goals and go to extra time. Shows how much they rely on them doesn't it? It's the fear factor that's different.

well that, and he's one of the top 4 players in the world.

I dont mind the away goal rule, but dont think it should apply with extra time. Feel like Inter was hard done by that. Still, Spurs have to be breathing a deep, deep sigh of relief. I cant imagine they expected any of that.

I agree Si, away goals should not apply in extra time.

As for Bale, clearly we missed him. There were a lot of factors that contributed to the poor showing. Parker and Gallas had bad games and AVB changed the formation to try to get an away goal which never came. Also, Inter looked like a different team. I seriously thought that they'd bombed the first leg because they wanted out of the competition.

I cant see it. Bayern looked a far superior team and countered Juve's 3-5-2 very well. Juventus needs goals now (they were fortunate it wasnt 3 or 4 tbf) and will need to expose themselves. Bayern's skill should prevail.

I think Bayern score atleast one, which really heaps the pressure on Juve.

The PSG-Barca match in Spain should be a fantastic one. PSG were fortunate (twice) to score and make a fixture of it. I hated the pen call so the last goal made up for it. Ibra was far offside on the first goal.

Still, PSG can be sneaky. I dont see them doing it, but should make for good drama.

I have a feeling Juventus may surprise Bayern at home. I wouldn't say they would go through but they can make Bayern nervous. With that said, the key in my opinion would be an early goal for Juventus. If they manage to score within first 15 minutes then it could be a very interesting game. However, I must say Bayern looks very dangerous and now that they have won the bundesliga title their focus would be only on the champions league glory.

I agree about PSG-Barca game, it should be a fantastic match. I give PSG about 25% chance of advancing. If they can create chances on the counter, then they can be successful.

I would disagree on Dortmund v Malaga game. I give Malaga a good shot at actually winning. I know that Dortmund on their day can beat anyone but I just have a feeling about Malaga going through. Quiet frankly I want them to go through, perhaps my personal feelings clouded my judgement.