Thread

Tired of Getting My Ass Kicked

Panda? Massive frame advantage? That's plain wrong!
She's considered almost as low tier as Yoshi. Only her setups and range make her good. You just don't know how to play against her.

And believe me: Yoshi has good time with Panda A lot better than e.g. against Lars or Christie.

She just probably abused low hand sweep followed by WS+1,1 (which you didn't SS) + setups and her post-bound unblockable trap, and was doing d/f+2,1 over and over and you didn't launch her for that. Then she probably was doing her hopkicks into Hunting Bear stance and you didn't hit her from that (d/f+4).

Once Panda knows you don't know how to punish her twin pistons and hopkicks, you will have no chance.

------

One more thing about frame data: you don't have to know it to play well. BUT you have to know how to punish other moves to be good!

Frame data makes it EASIER to find WEAK SPOTS. Meaning: somebody did the research for you.

Go ahead: don't give a shit about frame data. But instead... to be good, sit hours in practice mode to find all possible punishments for other character moves.

Not using frame data is reinventing a wheel by yourself.

But yeah, in order to use it well, you have to know, more or less, notations of all moves - both Yoshi's and opponent's you're studying. The number won't tell you much if you don't know the moves. By studying Panda's frame data and seeing -16 on block, it should come to your head instantly: "I have a guaranteed juggle here!"

To make long things short: frame data is to help you.
If you want to be good, one of neccessities is to know the punishments.
Either find them out by yourself or help yourself with frame data.
If you're too lazy, you won't be good. Simple.

I'm about to get corrected now so I just hope you get something useful out of this and get the meaning

I do understand your anger towards the unkind frames been there and thats why I stoped being to seroius about that game but that just how tekken is dude, punish the misteaks and get the maxium amount of damage, well if I was armor king for exsample and you where yoshi doing a fc d/f+4 and I blocked the move, I would be able to hop kick you arse and get a powerful juggle you properly knew that XD

but if you were facing a mishima ewgf, which juggles on a regular and unpunishable it even gains positive frames on block so what can you do, well duck because its high and its bad on the whiff so that means free damage for you.

that the good thing tekken about you can mostly always fight back, theres is always a counter to a move, its "just" a matter of muscle memory and knowing what you are up against really so knowledge is the key.

@ yoshidivine
I said all fighting games run on frames (including rival schools), the reason you can punish other peoples moves/punches means he has framedisadvantage when he uses that move. And saying that you want to be able to punish every single move after a block in a game is just plain wrong.
The rule in most cases of fighting games goes like this, a move that deals a lot of damage or give a huge combo possibility can be punished on block, moves that do little damage and gives almost no combo possibility is safe on block.
It's a rule that has always been there in fighting games, from the sf2 days till now.
And why weren't frame data an issue in the past, well it's simple it was a lot harder to get data about a game.
We didn't have internet, in the past. But nowadays we are overloaded with information and data about games, you can just look it up. In the past you had to go to the gamestore look at a game and if it seemed good you bought it. That all changed now, you already know what games are about to come, how they are etc. before it is even in the store.

And to get back to the tekken topic, it's like AK and I said before. When you lose it's your own damn fault, there is always something you can do in a given situation. You could've ducked, you could've sidestepped, you could've jumped, you could've throw escaped, you could've low parried, you can even counter a COUNTER. There is always a way and solution to anything. Is it fair, yes, is it easy maybe not.
And it's true that you sometimes have to guess, especially when you are cornered and getting pressured, BUT you can do the same to him

But the bottom line is, I don't think tekken is a game for you. You play, you don't have fun, you don't like the gameplay and you find it rubbish. You don't have to play tekken just because you're a yoshimitsu fan you know.
It's like being a fan of some singer, or some football or basketball player XD
I still want to play tekken with you btw

Added 3 minutes later:

Ow yeah about that ranking thing you asked me about.
I don't play with yoshimitsu ranked, only in player matches. And I've won more than I lost with him, I just play with him for fun.
My main character is paul, and I'm 4th dan, with a winning rate of 60% ^^'
I also use law, but it's not really my main, but I have a winning ratio of 80% with him, it's just that much easier with him especially against scrubs.

If you like chess so much, then I'll give you a nice metaphor:
Tekken is like chess with limited response time. Meaning if somebody moves a figure and you don't respond with a right move withing a split of a second, you miss the chance of taking his figure away from the playing table.

Anyways, I don't understand you. I remember how you cheered because you gained better rank with Yoshi. Now you complain again, and against a high-ranked Panda? There's no other way to stay in good shape than keep learning.

If frame data scares you, you'll have to launch defensive training in practice mode and just deal with panda by this means. Or, see Jakodayo's punishment movies on his youtube channel: youtube.com/jakodayo (I don't know if Panda's listed) it's the easiest way to memorize punishments without studying frames.

Maybe, when you gain enough experience, you'll reach for frame data. Now it might be just too early for you.

Added 1 minute later:

@ Kumar - okay, I'll make the list very soon

Added 24 minutes later:

Yoshi's strengths:

- very good game in middle to far distance
- long-ranged fast pokes
- unorthodox, unstandard playing style
- a variety of moves that cannot be parried or reversed
- good ranged jugglestarters (f,f+4)
- a great range of unblockable attacks
- good quickroll traps, good near-the-wall game
- shenanigans (unstandard tactics that people fall prey to)

- hit & run type - it's more advantageous to fish for distant jugglestarters or ranged moves than stay upclose.
- range-dependant custom strings - evaluate the pushback correctly to suprise opponents with long reach of some Yoshi's key moves. Create situations to use his unblockable moves.
- versus-character knowledge - very important. Yoshimitsu has many unstandard punishments and ways to escape from some popular mixups.
- depends on a good grasp of system knowledge in close combat - can't rely on his own tools too much.

@Tenshi whats your rank? and like i said earlier, am just venting. i got demoted twice in one night and another the next morning, and its because of a barrage of LAWS, FENGS, HWOARANGS, and BAEKS. But i'm a BERSERKER now. and here's a strange question, whats the significance of the spinning wheel on yoshi's back? does that wheel have a meaning of some sort?

@ Ralenzo, the sad thing is that i'm on the xbox network... i wish they'd connect the two networks, i'm pretty sure that would yield both entities a tonne of money. but i dont regret getting the xbox though, i enjoy hearing other people curse hahahaha lol even during HALO REACH and BLACK OPS, people die in some unfair and suspicious ways, and trust me, there's alot of venting going on over the airways. lol lol, i enjoy it. according to my win streak am about to level up again, so maybe by the time we meet, i might be at a higher rank. I'm aiming to be on tenshimitsu's level, and noko's of course. i wanna be in yoshi, not some innocent bystander... [i wanna be in yoshi]<---yea that sounds gay, but u get my point.
ey tenten, whats your rank?

#YoshiDivine :
@Tenshi whats your rank? and like i said earlier, am just venting. i got demoted twice in one night and another the next morning, and its because of a barrage of LAWS, FENGS, HWOARANGS, and BAEKS. But i'm a BERSERKER now. and here's a strange question, whats the significance of the spinning wheel on yoshi's back? does that wheel have a meaning of some sort?

My rank is probably still Destroyer (or Conqueror? Don't remember), but I didn't play ranked for a long time (partially because of PSN being down). Now I prepare myself for offline tournaments, online play interferes here (a lot).

#Tenshimitsu :
you said Yoshi's strengths are:
but can you explain me a little...
- very good game in middle to far distance ... So what exactly is a very good game of Yoshi at the distance(mid to far) you mentioned...
- long-ranged fast pokes.. What are the long pokes of Yoshi other than d/f 1 and d/f 4... and b+2... can you Pls tell me about tracking ...(i dont even have a partner to train with ...)
- unorthodox, unstandard playing style
- a variety of moves that cannot be parried or reversed ( ???)
- good ranged jugglestarters (f,f+4) .....and most inconsistent ?
- a great range of unblockable attacks... Thats why they make him weak and slow... I would have preferred bryans unblockable.. Which can launch cancel to low etc...
- good quickroll traps D/F 1 ? Is there any thing more.. , good near-the-wall game .... Pls tell me what is his arsenal of weapons at wall... Any thing special...
- shenanigans ... I dont get it....(unstandard tactics that people fall prey to) so the thing is ... My I.Q may be low or sub normal so Pls help me out....

They're good and quite fast. Try to use them more. It's all about making a space to use them. Like run up, spam some punches... make sure you read opponent well and countered his last retaliation attempt (meaning: you hit him during his retaliation at least twice in a row, making him hesitate). Then, as soon as you hit, go for an unblockable. There's 80% chance he will just stand there and try to block/evade next move.

I have put it in a very basic form, but this is the main mechanics of set-uping an unblockable.

Quickroll traps can be summed up in a funny way: "Mash the swords" (quote from Bronson Tran) - so... just do any unblockable sword move.

- shenanigans (unstandard tactics that people fall prey to)

These are tactics individual to each Yoshi player. Hard to give you some examples.

As I look at this list now... this would give you a pretty scary Yoshi already. It all depends on how you use these tools. Some use them better, some are worse. It also depends on "the day" It's all in your head and in your spirit, if you don't have mood for Yoshi in Tekken, your strategy won't "glue together"

aww Too bad >.>
And yeah it's fun to hear people curse haha, when I play with a couple of friends cod on ps3 we always laugh so hard with people cursing and arguing with each other
It's indeed too bad that they don't connect the two networks

Added 38 seconds later:

And I aim to beat everyone's asses ^^' don't really care much of rankings :p

Online gamers are really the most rude people you will ever meet but thats a part of the fun, I will hopefully continue gain hate mail when I start getting back in tekken again, I look at it like its a trophy perhaps you should be able to get an achievement after that

YoshiDivine, any chance you could upload some of your gameplay videos to youtube or something? It would be much easier to figure out what you're doing right and wrong that way, rather than general conversation.

Tenshi: I randomly looked at your vids the other day (via psn), I believe you are a conquerer

#Ralenzo :
@ yoshidivine
I said all fighting games run on frames (including rival schools), the reason you can punish other peoples moves/punches means he has framedisadvantage when he uses that move. And saying that you want to be able to punish every single move after a block in a game is just plain wrong.
The rule in most cases of fighting games goes like this, a move that deals a lot of damage or give a huge combo possibility can be punished on block, moves that do little damage and gives almost no combo possibility is safe on block.
It's a rule that has always been there in fighting games, from the sf2 days till now.
And why weren't frame data an issue in the past, well it's simple it was a lot harder to get data about a game.
We didn't have internet, in the past. But nowadays we are overloaded with information and data about games, you can just look it up. In the past you had to go to the gamestore look at a game and if it seemed good you bought it. That all changed now, you already know what games are about to come, how they are etc. before it is even in the store.

And to get back to the tekken topic, it's like AK and I said before. When you lose it's your own damn fault, there is always something you can do in a given situation. You could've ducked, you could've sidestepped, you could've jumped, you could've throw escaped, you could've low parried, you can even counter a COUNTER. There is always a way and solution to anything. Is it fair, yes, is it easy maybe not.
And it's true that you sometimes have to guess, especially when you are cornered and getting pressured, BUT you can do the same to him

But the bottom line is, I don't think tekken is a game for you. You play, you don't have fun, you don't like the gameplay and you find it rubbish. You don't have to play tekken just because you're a yoshimitsu fan you know.
It's like being a fan of some singer, or some football or basketball player XD
I still want to play tekken with you btw

Added 3 minutes later:

Ow yeah about that ranking thing you asked me about.
I don't play with yoshimitsu ranked, only in player matches. And I've won more than I lost with him, I just play with him for fun.
My main character is paul, and I'm 4th dan, with a winning rate of 60% ^^'
I also use law, but it's not really my main, but I have a winning ratio of 80% with him, it's just that much easier with him especially against scrubs.

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