I'm surprised at you, Iggy, for identifying this as an also-ran issue for Kyle since he has the rather impressive feat of making a theoretical surgical machine and maintains Orions heart with sheer will power.

So, Cosmic Odyssey and the yellow bomb fail are still in continuity . . . unfortunately.

Incoming (sorta') rant, that is related to the yellow bomb, but not necessarily about this particular comic issue. This rant isn't likely what some people think it will be about, since I mentioned the yellow bomb.

One of the reasons I stopped reading DC Comics (I did randomly poke in and take a look at this issue, though I did not buy it) is because the continuity got so bad. It would change on a whim depending on how writers were feeling, and many writers couldn't be bothered to even research the continuity, or would just brazenly disregard it. Writers would change on a whim depending on editorial, and there were too many clashing takes and stuff just not making sense to the point when you, as a reader, would just have to shrug your shoulders and say, "Well, it's comics," and I can't enjoy stories like that, whether they're comics or anything else. And it's not like it happened between something current and something ten years prior. There could literally only be a three month interval or so between MASSIVE discrepancies.

The yellow bomb thing was retconned by Van Jensen during his Green Lantern Corps run. It still happened, but it was changed to have been a product of the Shadow Empire. This story changes that back to it being related to the New Gods, and seems to make it so the story Cosmic Odyssey is cannon again. Or maybe something like it? Who knows.

I think I had enough of this when Darkseid War was going on and Lost Army was transitioning to Edge of Oblivion. I was reading those comics and I couldn't believe how much they contradicted each other in ways I couldn't ignore, and just made little sense. The coordination between them was REALLY bad. Even before then, I would see things that really just didn't fit well, like John Stewart's Star Sapphire ring not being brought up in Lost Army at all, and still not being brought up to this day, to my knowledge. Personally, I wasn't even crazy about the idea, but for the sake of a cohesive narrative, it doesn't seem like something that should be outright ignored.

I started thinking to myself, "Why should I read these stories when the events of them are NEVER going to matter or be referenced six months from now, and their canonical merits can even be brought into question in such a short time?

I understand that if an idea isn't a smash hit, it may be wise to move on to something totally different. But I think that can be done in a way that doesn't make the ongoing story of these characters fall apart. Like, why did the Lanterns get stuck in the past universe? Dunno'.

Sure, move on to something else, but at least let that story conclude so that it makes sense. It's not like disregarding 80% of Lost Army in Edge of Oblivion improved anything.

DC should realize there are people reading these things, even if it may not be as many people as they want. You still shouldn't make it so the story makes absolutely no sense in major ways for the people reading them. You should wan't to keep those people as readers WHILE you look for new readers with a new direction.

I think a lot of comics fans aren't critical enough of major discrepancies like that because they're just used to buying this stuff, and the companies know that and exploit it. I think one big reason why comics have difficulty finding new audiences is because they pull weird eccentric stuff like that, which wouldn't fly in most other story telling mediums that are meant to be taken at least somewhat seriously, so people who don't just buy the stuff regardless of all this may get confused and tired of it. I'm actually not a person who has been religiously buying comics for a huge bunch of years, and this stuff blew me out of mainstream superhero comics.

I actually got one of my friends who's not a long time buyer to start reading Green Lantern comics a few years back, and he stopped, too. He got tired of the constant crossovers, and said that they kept interrupting the story he was reading, and he didn't want to buy a bunch of other books he wasn't interested in. He saw that for what it is, a dumb gimmick, and didn't fall for it. Again, comics fans put up with that type of wacky stuff, because they need to get their fix of their favorite character, but not many other people will, and I think I fall in that category of "not many other people."

They all have their crosses to bear:
-- John: Xanshi
-- Hal: Parallax
-- Guy: "One punch!"
-- Kyle: girlfriend in the 'fridge. (that wasn't his fault at least, but it's an embarrassing story that's forever tied to him) ... or "You shall have to do." in the alley....

So, Cosmic Odyssey and the yellow bomb fail are still in continuity . . . unfortunately.

As much as I hated Cosmic Odyssey, and thought it portrayed John TOTALLY out of character AND forced a ridiculously contrived failure on him, I never really wanted to erase it from continuity before, as it served as something of an foundation for the character's development going forward...and I REALLY liked a lot of THAT.

But given that they have, by now, pretty much erased all the stuff that I LIKED that had its origins in that story, I find it somewhat painful that they STILL choose to hang on to THAT piece of continuity, which I find worthless on its own.

Mosaic is gone, but COSMIC ODYSSEY is still in continuity?! That ain't right.

^Yeah, that's probably fair. If they kept all the good stuff and didn't downplay other parts (architect?), it wouldn't be as annoying. To be fair, I do think about it as part of his background, but then again I also think of him as a black militant, an architect, and a guardian.

As much as I hated Cosmic Odyssey, and thought it portrayed John TOTALLY out of character AND forced a ridiculously contrived failure on him, I never really wanted to erase it from continuity before, as it served as something of an foundation for the character's development going forward...and I REALLY liked a lot of THAT.

But given that they have, by now, pretty much erased all the stuff that I LIKED that had its origins in that story, I find it somewhat painful that they STILL choose to hang on to THAT piece of continuity, which I find worthless on its own.

Mosaic is gone, but COSMIC ODYSSEY is still in continuity?! That ain't right.

Gerard Jones is the only one who made lemonade out of that situation (as well as Katma's death), in my opinion. Anyone else who brought up Cosmic Odyssey never did so in a way that felt satisfying to me. But yeah, Mosaic is really incredible. I LOOOOOOOOVE that 4 parter in Green Lantern that M.D. Bright drew which leads into Mosaic. I don't think that arc gets enough attention. I like it just as much as the regular Mosaic ongoing, and depending on what mood I'm in, a part of me might like it a bit more. M.D. Bright's art is awesome on it, and it was some of the strongest writing I've read from Gerard Jones, if not the strongest. I definitely think he did his best work with Rose Hardin in that arc. I was thinking about reading it again.

...I LOOOOOOOOVE that 4 parter in Green Lantern that M.D. Bright drew which leads into Mosaic...

Yep. I liked that story enough that I was psyched when it got an ongoing, but at the time (I would've been a pre-teen), I was so disappointed because of the crazy art. Then the death of Ch'p (my favorite alien GL at the time) was the final straw. I should re-read Mosaic, though. I think I'd have a more balanced view now.

Yep. I liked that story enough that I was psyched when it got an ongoing, but at the time (I would've been a pre-teen), I was so disappointed because of the crazy art. Then the death of Ch'p (my favorite alien GL at the time) was the final straw. I should re-read Mosaic, though. I think I'd have a more balanced view now.

Heheh. Yeah, the Cully Hamner art definitely was waaay different. I think it worked well within the context of Mosaic. I guess what I like about the 4 part Mosaic arc in Green Lantern is that, while it's really creative, well done, and a really original science fiction story with a brilliant premise, it isn't over the top like the Mosaic ongoing. However, what I like about the Mosaic ongoing is that it's so over the top.

So yeah, I love both of them. Not sure which take I prefer more. Like I said, it depends on how I'm feeling at the time. I wanted to give the four parter some attention because I've seen a lot of people gush over the ongoing and ignore the 4 parter. Actually, I've talked to a number of people who love the ongoing and have never even the read the 4 parter. I think that's kinda' unfortunate, because that 4 parter is REALLY awesome in its own right, and has a way different flavor to the ongoing while still being great.

Conversely, I've suggested the 4 parter to people who couldn't get into the ongoing because of all the eccentricities, and they really loved it. Interestingly, I was actually introduced to the 4 parter from storming a back issue bin. I saw pictures of the ongoing online and was like 0________o

I was thinking, "I like this version of Mosaic (the four parter). That other stuff is pretty... I dunno'." But when I actually started reading the ongoing, I was blown away with how awesome I thought it was.

They all have their crosses to bear:
-- John: Xanshi
-- Hal: Parallax
-- Guy: "One punch!"
-- Kyle: girlfriend in the 'fridge. (that wasn't his fault at least, but it's an embarrassing story that's forever tied to him) ... or "You shall have to do." in the alley....

You are correct, sir! And I'd add Hal's womanizing to the list.

That's one of many reasons why this property badly needs a reboot. Just wipe that caked shit off those characters and start fresh and clean with them. You could also give Baz and Cruz non-Lantern roles in the DCU and be done with that blunder.

That's one of many reasons why this property badly needs a reboot. Just wipe that caked shit off those characters and start fresh and clean with them. You could also give Baz and Cruz non-Lantern roles in the DCU and be done with that blunder.

At the risk of going down this rabbit hole ...

A reboot would likely only help so much with stuff like that. Those moments are so big for those characters that they will always be remembered for them. There will always be website articles poking fun at them, fans talking about them, and likely some creators that want to reference them. At some point in time there may be a creator who wants to use Hal Jordan as Parallax again, or alternate universe Hal Jordan as Parallax, or something.

Even if a reboot were to happen, somewhere down the line, someone may want to revisit that Hal Jordan Parallax story and tell their version of it. While something like that being published may be hard to imagine now, in the future, it may seem like the right thing to do to get fans' attention, and there may not always be a Geoff Johns or Dan DiDio around to stop a story like that from being published. After all, Parallax is actually a pretty popular villain with some people.

There isn't enough of a cohesive vision in these serialized comics to where "cleaning things up" with reboots really means all that much or goes all that far. There are too many cooks in the kitchen for that and comics often change hands creatively too much. Especially these days, where the company would be likely to do some reboot or "alteration" in as little as five, or maybe now, three or two years. It's not like having a single author for a book series.

I liked the issue. I read a lot of people had problems with how the Old God was portrayed as being weaker than before, and the thing with John was literally one page.... I don't see the point in bitching about it. What made me upset was in the page in question John was wearing his current suit rather than what he actually wore.

I also hope Kyle's adventure in being the iron construct organ for Orion doesn't mean the writers are thinking about making HIM Soranik's replacement as GLC Doc.

~//V\\~

__________________

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world." - Albert Einstein

I liked the issue. I read a lot of people had problems with how the Old God was portrayed as being weaker than before, and the thing with John was literally one page.... I don't see the point in bitching about it....

Is this on a board? Someone is talking about this series more than we do?

Is this on a board? Someone is talking about this series more than we do?

Yeah. There was more discussion on the issue 11 days ago on the other site than there has been on this entire forum in those 11 days. I normally don't get in on the discussions there because they're not moderated unless you spoil the comic in the comments. Some of the folks knew their shit though. Talked about how the old god's relationship with Highfather and Darksied was different, how the same guy was imprisoned on the Source Wall differed originally, etc. Basically what I took from it was "This character hasn't been used in 25 years, and now that he has IT'S ALL WRONG!"

I didn't read Cosmic Odyssey, much of the Silver Age is still lost on me, and the stuff I picked up in the 80's and early 90's I was very picky with and only kept up with a handful of characters and teams. It's one thing to argue about a comic that changes something that was brought up in several issues, its another beast entirely to get upset over a character with less than 20 appearances [Yuga Kahn has 16 appearances, part of which I'm sure are in collections] getting changed up slightly.

~//V\\~

__________________

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world." - Albert Einstein

You'd then have to rewrite almost all their histories just to make them seem equal when readers all still remember the original order anyway.

I'm not calling you a fanboy, so don't take offense. But what a fanboy will say is, "I like it the way they're doing it (or did it), and I don't care that it doesn't sell. I'd rather it not be published than to be changed in a way that will make it sell. Even if the change makes it better as well as making it sell, I'll oppose it."

This is a business, and there's no future in that attitude.

The bottom line -- literally, the bottom line -- is that this property is swirling down the toilet. It's not selling! But rebooting it would be a piece of cake. You can see that at the link I'm posting. That is, it's easy if you really want to get on with it -- instead of, as some writers want to do, dragging out the set-up for years and years because you've got no stories to tell after you've finally set it up.

Are the four Lanterns equal here? Well, why would you even ask that question? You can like whoever you want. There's nothing to gain and much to lose by telling everyone that one of them is "the greatest." That's a zero-sum game, which will never sell comics. It hasn't sold them yet, has it?

Stan Lee never spent a long time setting up a comic. He set them up fast and started telling stories. That's the right way to do it. It's about the stories you tell, not about some endless setting-up process that you put your readers through. That's a lot of bullsheiss.