This is the problem i have with most people on these forums.
People see things and judge too quickly without actually playing, or cant judge for themselves but would rather listen to critics...that are not always right..remember most critics speak about the game to there tastes even if they deny/try not too.

Ive played it...its good but then again demos at conventions always are...as for the actual released game?? its in the same boat as all the others YES including star wars!

so basically you are saying that they should try it out for themselves instead of looking at videos and reading reviews, right? that is all good if you do not know what you like from your games, especially when it comes to core designs and mechanics. others may just not want to spend the money on a gamble. personally, i struggle to find something to like about SWTOR enough to make me want to buy it let alone pre-order it. by the way, your framing of your views on people's habits makes you seem condescending and patronizing like you are the only one on these forums that can think for himself.

Originally Posted by BatteredSausage

Who knows what end game they have for this with no sub fees coming in, thats the big question....will it last?
I am a bit dissapointed though that the main selling point for this game and many many many people on these forums have said it many times is the no sub fee's. Thats great but wouldnt you rather have some other major selling point than 'Im not playing shit swtor but ill play gw2 because its free to play' how many times have you seen or said that on these forums aye?

on your first point, we will have to wait and see. on GW2 being B2P i think you are looking at it too simplistically. yes there are people who just refuse to pay monthly subs for a game they have already bought, but for people like myself the game offers sooooo much more than sub based AAA MMOs AND it has no monthly fees.

Originally Posted by BatteredSausage

Open world quests or whatever its called? sure its sounds and looks great but i did that in warhammer so its not really new is it.
To the devs ,,, Give me more to go on so i can look forward to more than what i just mentioned above.

the open world quests are called Dynamic Events in GW2 and no they are not the same as Public Quests in Warhammer, the only thing that they share in common is that they are open to any player in the area at the same time. their functioning mechanics are different; Warhammer's PQs do not scale with an increase in players i.e. they can be zerged, they do not reward "actual" participation and instead reward based on a dice roll (people who participated the most/longest can get shafted on loot), they do not have multiple chaining stages pass or fail, they do not affect other PQs in the area or zone i.e. they are isolated, and they do not have a persistent impact on the game world for ALL players in the area. in GW2 all of the points i mentioned for Warhammer are the opposite.

You get diablo as a distraction from teh insane amount of sub money you pay for very little, and inceasingly poor quality, content from Bliz. You pay massively over the odds with your subscription for content other games give for free.

If you are happy to do that, then thats cool. I'm not knocking it, but you dont get diablo for free.

How am I'm not getting Diablo 3 for free. Odds are very good that I was going to continue my WoW sub for 1 more year, heck it's prety solid I'll be subbing for 2 more years, unless something drastic happens. I had no plans of canceling WoW. I normally sign up in 6 months chunks, and even this year I took a 2 month break during that chunk. With that, I already planned to buy whatever the next Xpac was as well. While I am hitting bored stints in the game, I am happy enough to keep subbing and buying X-pacs. Again, something drastic might change.

If you want to make a better argument, you should ask if I had any plans on buying Diablo 3. Which is NO,I didn't. The "Hey you can have it for free, and a mount and a beta invite if you make this commintement" was ENOUGH of an offer to make me say, Sure I'll commit to 1 more year right now, cause I plan on subbing anyways.

Should WoW still be $15 a month ? No, they should be down to around $5, at least below $10. And Xpacs should be no more than $20, if not free. But, it's pretty obvious that the overall population still finds it's acceptable and like any company out there, Blizzard will continue charging what people are willing to pay. You think your ISP wouldn't love to go back to the AoL days and charge per hour or like they are trying now and charge per gigabit ? If GW2 steals away 50% of the player base, Blizzard will do what all other companies do and change to compete.

You're essentially paying $100 (don't know the actual amount) for a $60 game under the veil of getting a great deal on a service they don't actually need to charge you for.

But I was going to pay that amount anyways...why do you guys keep skipping that part. They had my $180 for the next year regardless of whether I got D3 or not. I got D3 for simple making a commitment for 1 year. I would have made the same deal, if they offered Starcraft 2 for free with a 1 year commitment. In that case I would have came out ahead, because I actually want and did buy SC2.

Particularly, scroll down to the "Don't count on Subscriptions" portion.

This is my favorite part of the article:

Pay close attention to complexity creep. Don't assume that most of your players are reading your website and consuming information about your game. Most of your players will never read your website, never visit fansites, and never participate in forum discussions. We are often immersed in the community forums and rants and raves posted to game fansites, and it is easy to lose perspective about the knowledge level of most of our players. Players who participate in fansites and send six-page emails to your community team are experts at your game – they probably know more about it than you do – so it's important to realize that they do not represent the average player. The vast majority of your players are not digging into every detail of every spell or creating lists of animations so that they can react when they see the basilisk twitch its nose. They want to play, not study, so take care to create a game that allows them to do so.

But I was going to pay that amount anyways...why do you guys keep skipping that part. They had my $180 for the next year regardless of whether I got D3 or not. I got D3 for simple making a commitment for 1 year. I would have made the same deal, if they offered Starcraft 2 for free with a 1 year commitment. In that case I would have came out ahead, because I actually want and did buy SC2.

I agree with you, I have no desire for D3. But if I was going to keep playing WoW (which i'm not), I would have done the same thing you did. I think the mount looks pretty cool you get also, and D3 would have just been something free. What stopped me from signing up for the annual pass, was I don't see any content coming down the road over the next year. Sure we have the deathwing raid, but I don't see that being fun for a full year. Plus I'm thinking of trying out the Star Wars mmo, still not decided to be honest.

More on topic, the servers in GW1 were also set up to reduce server fees. And there original model was to release expansion quickly, to make up for no sub fees. Now with servers and bandwidth costing next to nothing, they can push out a persistent mmo with no monthly fee. At the time WoW, EQ and other mmo's needed that monthly fee, should WoW and others lowered there monthly fee as servers and bandwidth prices lowered sure. But that sure has heck was not going to happen, not when there player base kept growing more and more.

You're essentially paying $100 (don't know the actual amount) for a $60 game under the veil of getting a great deal on a service they don't actually need to charge you for.

I would say it's more than his sub fees over the past years likely helped fund the development of Diablo 3, since the amount WoW is raking in is almost definitely not just going to WoW content. He might be getting the game for free, but he's already paid for it's development - he should get it free!

Well, the thing is they release maultiple expansions all for 60$. So we may see an expansion every 6months-a year. If there were an expansion every 6 months then we would be paying 30$ less than a 15$ sub fee every 6 months.

Well, the thing is they release maultiple expansions all for 60$. So we may see an expansion every 6months-a year. If there were an expansion every 6 months then we would be paying 30$ less than a 15$ sub fee every 6 months.

Yes, and expansion every year sounds about right. I wouldn't mind that either, because given ANet's history; they're able to give quality content on a tight time line.

Exactly, they would have never done F2P with GW2 if they weren't so successful with GW1 and the cash shop probably will be a lot bigger than the one from GW1 so that is more profit coming through.

What baffles me though is how people will complain about how micro-transactions are just as "greedy" as sub fees. People, *sigh* you don't have to buy anything from the shop in order to improve your game-play experience aside from maybe 5 cheap character slots. You only really need 8 character slots anyway. You're given 5 automatically (one for each race), and you're allowed up to 10, but since there's only 8 classes for now, you'll only ever need to buy 3 more.