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I reckon, Meg and MP, you are at odds about the Swans missing the boat with the AFLW. And I agree with you, Meg. Maybe the Swans underestimated the success of the AFLW as you say, MP, and as many did, but this was not the reason they elected not to make a submission for a team. The reason is clearly out there and quite convincing: we simply don't have the space to accommodate another team. As it is our facilities are not up to standard.

I agree that somewhere like the old Showground (or even the Moore Park Bat & Ball oval) could be ideal locations for training because of their proximity to the SCG. But it must be seriously questionable whether they are gettable. If they are, fantastic! Time to start sucking up to Clover Moore & co or whoever. Wherever it is, we need to be able to have large indoor facilities, perhaps including a pool, co-located or else we could just stay where we are. And, if not, it is tricky because you'd think we don't want to be too far from the SCG. (Although Melbourne clubs seem prepared to travel: isn't the Hawks new home base far from the MCG and even from Waverley?) Secondly, whichever venue is chosen for the facilities for the men must be the same one that is used for the women. This is a matter of club unity and good optics, not because it is practically unfeasible.

I think Sydney Uni #1 Oval is no chance. Ditto the Village Green at UNSW. If we can't get close to the SCG, then perhaps somewhere like: Erskineville Oval, Waterloo Oval or Lionel Bowen Park in Mascot (all currently configured for rugby league) might be viable alternatives as much as Henson Park or Waverley Oval are? They are a little closer. These are all public land, council operated, so not sure whether they are gettable or not. We would have to be able to get a very long lease and build some state of the art facilities on the relevant site (or refit existing buildings). Maybe the council would give us the lease in return for building the facility that we hand over at the end of the lease? Once we have worked out the venue there is still a question of how long it will take to get it up and running. We won't be able to bid for AFLW licence until we have somewhere to put our team. (Although, if it's all worked out and we know the venue/facilities are going to come on line for sure in the near future perhaps we could lease a different space for the AFLW team temporarily.)

Does it matter if you can't close off the ground and charge admission? These are training grounds. Even if they host some NEAFL matches I'm not sure if it matters that admission can't be charged. And if it does matter then you fixture the relevant match at a venue where you can charge.

I still reckon the Swans are a good chance of getting an AFLW licence if we have the facilities and submit a bid whenever the next intake of teams is. There are already 4 teams in Melbourne and if they add another one or two there surely they will be willing to add another one in Sydney, Australia's largest population base. In terms of getting players, as far as women's sport goes, AFLW won't have to compete with rugby (league or union) in the same way that the men's comp does in Sydney/NSW. AFLW is already way out in front and attracting female athletes from across Australia and from across sports ranging from basketball to ultimate frisbee to soccer to javelin (not sure if I made the last one up). Plus there will continue to be a national draft so that we have an equal shot at a lot of the talent.

I think Sydney is a long long way off from being able to field a second AFLW team given how weak GWS were. There is an article in one of the Sydney papers where Schmidt pretty much admits that we are behind the pack and that in a semi-Pro environment is will be very difficult to get women payers to relocate. Whilst the pay structures will increase I think only the very elite will be able to afford being full time and then only for a limited period, the other 8 months of the year they'll need a job or a second sport (like Erin Philips from the Crows who is in the WNBA). Would a cap of $1m a team, which is a long way off, where the standard contract is $20,000 or so, be enough for a youmhg player to relocate permanent or even for 3-4 months? I doubt it.

I think a second team is realistically at least 10 years away in Sydney but I hope I am wrong and it happens sooner but we should only get a second licence if the local playing talent pool can sustain it IMO. For me it is part of the appeal of the AFLW, it's great grassroots footy, that and the fact that they go at the footy like complete lunatics.

I think having a ground that is enclosed is definitely preferable for security as surely clubs like to have "closed sessions" where they match simulate strategies and the like.

GWS were very competitive for most games, they suffered from losing both their Marquee players and their priority pick to injury before the season started. It's the equivalent to us losing Buddy, Parks and Joey. Swanston managed a couple of games late in the season. With those 3 playing they would have won more games.
The hold up with a Swans team is lack of facilities. Finding enough quality players in a year or two won't be a problem.
Just to give you a small sample in Vic Metro for 2017 the TAC cup clubs each have a Womens squad this year who have just started their season. That is 300 plus elite level 16-18 year old girls half of whom will be draft age next year. Most of them have played footy since Auskick. In junior girls Metro competitions there is in excess of 370 teams from U/12- U/18 level this season. Geelong, StKilda and Hawthorn have entered Senior teams in the VFL competition and are pushing hard for admission to AFLW next year and I know Geelong had 240 women try out. There are also new competitions popping up right through country Victoria for seniors and juniors. Also the AFL Womens Academy has begun with over 100 participants in Victoria.AFL Victoria Women’s Academy launched - Victorian Women's Football League - SportsTG
Whilst on a far smaller scale similar things are happening in NSW and Canberra. Female - AFL NSW / ACT.
I could go on but you get the idea, similar things are happening in each State particularly Queensland. The Draft for next year will be huge and many average - good quality players will miss out. If they want a game Sydney is not that far away.

GWS were very competitive for most games, they suffered from losing both their Marquee players and their priority pick to injury before the season started. It's the equivalent to us losing Buddy, Parks and Joey. Swanston managed a couple of games late in the season. With those 3 playing they would have won more games.
The hold up with a Swans team is lack of facilities. Finding enough quality players in a year or two won't be a problem.
Just to give you a small sample in Vic Metro for 2017 the TAC cup clubs each have a Womens squad this year who have just started their season. That is 300 plus elite level 16-18 year old girls half of whom will be draft age next year. Most of them have played footy since Auskick. In junior girls Metro competitions there is in excess of 370 teams from U/12- U/18 level this season. Geelong, StKilda and Hawthorn have entered Senior teams in the VFL competition and are pushing hard for admission to AFLW next year and I know Geelong had 240 women try out. There are also new competitions popping up right through country Victoria for seniors and juniors. Also the AFL Womens Academy has begun with over 100 participants in Victoria.AFL Victoria Women’s Academy launched - Victorian Women's Football League - SportsTG
Whilst on a far smaller scale similar things are happening in NSW and Canberra. Female - AFL NSW / ACT.
I could go on but you get the idea, similar things are happening in each State particularly Queensland. The Draft for next year will be huge and many average - good quality players will miss out. If they want a game Sydney is not that far away.

I have no doubt that eventually Sydney will be able to sustain two teams but surely GWS has to be very competitive before we can even think of a second side. Tim Schmidt admits the difficulty they are having in getting elite level talent to relocate.

The talent is there on a national footprint but at the moment the bulk is in Victoria. And despite what you say I think it is an issue for athletes that are essentially amateur to move interstate is a huge call, it's a compete;y different situation to the men's AFL draft

I think the AFL will take a cautious approach to expansion and that they'll keep it at 8 teams for 2017 and that going to 10 teams in 2018 with a Geelong team and an extra Melbourne side. I reckon they'll stick at that for 3-4 years before a jump to 14 teams in 2022. So that's the target for the game in Sydney really, to grow fast enough in five years to sustain a second team. The womens game in Sydney is still basically embryonic, the 300 elite 16-18 year olds in Melbourne is probably more than the total active senior womwn playing AFL each weekend.

We have a lot of catching up to do and whilst I believe we'll get there on the back of AFLW there is no benefit whatsoever having two very weak teams from Sydney.

Finally, one would think that the growth of the game locally on the back of the AFLW is a given but one should never, ever, underestimate the incompetence of the NWSAFL administration here in NSW

It's not especially close to the SCG. The Swans have declared that their priority is to find an appropriate site somewhere within the Moore Park precinct so that they remain close to the SCG. While they acknowledge it is a challenge to find a site in the area, comments at the AGM hinted towards them having identified at least one possibility, and that negotiations are underway.

Henson Park is in the swans zone. I can't see why, when we get a team they can't play there. They don't need to play in Moore Park. There is no place in MoorePark capable of taking a televised game anyway.

The new Hawthorn training facilities are being located in Dingley. Dingley is about 15 minutes from the Hawthorn current training facilities - at the old VFL park.
Dingley is about 30 to 40 minutes from the MCG

Dingley is about 15 minutes from Moorabbin. St Kilda's move back to Moorabbin (from Seaford - the ars* end of an open paddock, off the side of a freeway, of dirt near Frankston) Good move by St Kilda to move back to Moorabbin ( growing up in the area - most of my friends barrack for St Kilda)

To the golfers out there - Dingley is in the sand belt area of Melbourne , and is about 10 minutes (or less) from the following golf courses - Royal Melbourne GC, Victoria GC, Huntingdale GC, Yarra Yarra GC, Commonwealth GC, Kingston Heath GC, Metropolitan GC, Capital GC (private - owned by Crown Casino) Woodlands GC, Keysborough GC and Kingswood GC. There are also 4 or more public GC's

I reckon, Meg and MP, you are at odds about the Swans missing the boat with the AFLW. And I agree with you, Meg. Maybe the Swans underestimated the success of the AFLW as you say, MP, and as many did, but this was not the reason they elected not to make a submission for a team. The reason is clearly out there and quite convincing: we simply don't have the space to accommodate another team. As it is our facilities are not up to standard.

I agree that somewhere like the old Showground (or even the Moore Park Bat & Ball oval) could be ideal locations for training because of their proximity to the SCG. But it must be seriously questionable whether they are gettable. If they are, fantastic! Time to start sucking up to Clover Moore & co or whoever. Wherever it is, we need to be able to have large indoor facilities, perhaps including a pool, co-located or else we could just stay where we are. And, if not, it is tricky because you'd think we don't want to be too far from the SCG. (Although Melbourne clubs seem prepared to travel: isn't the Hawks new home base far from the MCG and even from Waverley?) Secondly, whichever venue is chosen for the facilities for the men must be the same one that is used for the women. This is a matter of club unity and good optics, not because it is practically unfeasible.

I think Sydney Uni #1 Oval is no chance. Ditto the Village Green at UNSW. If we can't get close to the SCG, then perhaps somewhere like: Erskineville Oval, Waterloo Oval or Lionel Bowen Park in Mascot (all currently configured for rugby league) might be viable alternatives as much as Henson Park or Waverley Oval are? They are a little closer. These are all public land, council operated, so not sure whether they are gettable or not. We would have to be able to get a very long lease and build some state of the art facilities on the relevant site (or refit existing buildings). Maybe the council would give us the lease in return for building the facility that we hand over at the end of the lease? Once we have worked out the venue there is still a question of how long it will take to get it up and running. We won't be able to bid for AFLW licence until we have somewhere to put our team. (Although, if it's all worked out and we know the venue/facilities are going to come on line for sure in the near future perhaps we could lease a different space for the AFLW team temporarily.)

Does it matter if you can't close off the ground and charge admission? These are training grounds. Even if they host some NEAFL matches I'm not sure if it matters that admission can't be charged. And if it does matter then you fixture the relevant match at a venue where you can charge.

I still reckon the Swans are a good chance of getting an AFLW licence if we have the facilities and submit a bid whenever the next intake of teams is. There are already 4 teams in Melbourne and if they add another one or two there surely they will be willing to add another one in Sydney, Australia's largest population base. In terms of getting players, as far as women's sport goes, AFLW won't have to compete with rugby (league or union) in the same way that the men's comp does in Sydney/NSW. AFLW is already way out in front and attracting female athletes from across Australia and from across sports ranging from basketball to ultimate frisbee to soccer to javelin (not sure if I made the last one up). Plus there will continue to be a national draft so that we have an equal shot at a lot of the talent.

Erko and Henson are the only real possibilities. We already have a working agreement to hold our Intra at Henson Park so to extend that to the Women's game shouldn't be difficult.The ground is extensively used by AFL lower grade and junior teams. Erko is not really used for anything at the moment and the council is looking to put in new lighting with the idea of getting a tenant. Rabbitoh's used to train there but don't any longer since the upgrade of their own ground. It is an oval rthe same as Henson. Mascott you can forget as it is a nightmare to get to and I for one would not go there.

Great mail wolftone! Erko has the advantage of being a bit more accessible to the SCG. But Henson is quite self-contained, more ready to have bigger crowds and clearly has the space for us to build a 'facility' in the southern corner if we need to (assuming there is no other reason that we can't build there).

As for Mascot being somewhere you (and other fans) wouldn't want to go, why is that a factor? It's the Swans training base not necessarily somewhere to play matches, is that right? (Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure I could be.) So long as the players have everything they need to train and getting there isn't too problematic for them (and they can organise themselves accordingly) and it isn't too too far from the SCG, does it matter if it is unappealing or less accessible? From Maroubra (where some players live) it's 15 minutes to Lionel Bowen. From Bondi, where the "billionaires" live, it's 30 minutes. Conversely to get to Henson Park it takes 30 and 40 minutes respectively. Is it important that the training base is suitable for playing televised matches? If so, why? Forgive me my ignorance in this regard.

Wolfgang, thanks for explaining about Dingley and Seaford/Moorabbin. Dingley is not as far removed as I had thought.

MP, you make some good points about getting the talent. I hope the situation isn't as dire as you suggest. Maybe the AFL could approve subsidising rent and paying relocation costs to players who are drafted outside the salary cap and this would entice many more women to enter the draft, despite the concomitant risk of having to move interstate, even though the salaries would be modest and they might have to get part-time jobs as well. In fact, this seems so sensible that I wonder if they haven't done it already?

The talent is there on a national footprint but at the moment the bulk is in Victoria.

Not wanting to be picky but it's actually Queensland that leads the pack. Out of 380,000 registrations Australia wide in 2016 they had 76,000+.
Tim has done a fantastic job this year and as I said if they hadn't had bad luck with injuries they would have won more games. I agree that the AFLW should stay at 8 teams next year but the Hawks, Saints and Cats are pushing extremely hard after being led to believe when they received their provisional licenses that spots would be available in 2018. West Coast are also pushing extremely hard for inclusion next year.
The NSW AFL admin is a problem. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the "Boom".

No Cookies | Herald Sun
A great article about a young Giants player who relocated from Victoria. This will happen more and more as opportunities to play AFLW in Qld and Vic dry up. Tim's problems will be short lived I feel.

Swans AFLW Team and new training venue

Originally Posted by Mug Punter

For me it is part of the appeal of the AFLW, it's great grassroots footy, that and the fact that they go at the footy like complete lunatics.

Aim't that the truth! Exciting to watch but the complete disregard the women have for their safety is a bit alarming (and has resulted in a lot of injuries). I assume that, unlike the men, they haven't had the benefit of years of professional/semi professional coaching that has engrained self-protection techniques into their playing style. I expect that will change over time, which is probably needed.

I've loved this AFLW season and am still disappointed that the Swans weren't involved!

I personally don't think it will take 10 years to get another team in Sydney. I think there's enough local talent - who may or may not be currently playing AFL - to get a team together sooner, with the additional of a few key interstate players. GWS were competitive this year even without their marquee player, and a good proportion of their team play in the local Sydney AFL comp. Who knows, perhaps the semi-professional nature of the comp will attract interstate players who want to study/work in Sydney anyway? And the fact that it's only semi-professional comp may mean that the gap between the current players (GWS and elsewhere) and then next crop won't be so big.

And you never know, a few of the GWS girls may be happy to switch to the Swans if given the chance

Not wanting to be picky but it's actually Queensland that leads the pack. Out of 380,000 registrations Australia wide in 2016 they had 76,000+.
Tim has done a fantastic job this year and as I said if they hadn't had bad luck with injuries they would have won more games. I agree that the AFLW should stay at 8 teams next year but the Hawks, Saints and Cats are pushing extremely hard after being led to believe when they received their provisional licenses that spots would be available in 2018. West Coast are also pushing extremely hard for inclusion next year.
The NSW AFL admin is a problem. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the "Boom".

No Cookies | Herald Sun
A great article about a young Giants player who relocated from Victoria. This will happen more and more as opportunities to play AFLW in Qld and Vic dry up. Tim's problems will be short lived I feel.

Wow, I didn't realise the rego numbers were that high, amazing considering it wasn't that until recently that girls had to stop playing in the U11s.

I was patronizingly dismissive of women's footy for a long time, no doubt imbedded in latent sexism of which I'm not proud of but I am a convert. It was an interview with John Longmire that started to change my thinking where he spoke from personal experience how his daughter playing AFL at school had totally changed her level of engagement with AFL from a virtual indifference to becoming obsessed with the game. It's a great story

I do think they should have their own window and I'm not sure of having a full 18 team season in conjunction with the men's season which I think Sam Mostyn stated as her goal. It certainly needs to be expanded but I like a four month season from January to April. The women's and men's seasons can have an intersect and we can have some AFL/AFLW double headers. I'd also like to see the AFLW GF played at the MCG every year, I'm just a traditionalist this way.

Henson Park is in the swans zone. I can't see why, when we get a team they can't play there. They don't need to play in Moore Park. There is no place in MoorePark capable of taking a televised game anyway.

I mentioned this earlier, Henson also has the demographics around it to make AFLW a success. Newtown, Marrickville, Sydney Uni, Enmore, Erskinvilke and Stanmore are very progressive and would love professional AFL women's football played at their local ground.

Around 12 years ago my eyes were opened. One Friday night I was walking past the Bank Hotel in Newtown. A group of girls were watching Friday Night Football (Rugby League) and were yelling at the top of their voices "smash him" , "hit him harder". They had more passion than any bloke I've seen at an RSL watching sport.

This Newtown crowd would love to get to Henson and watch the girls hit in hard against each other. It could be a cult following at Henson and may not need to be sustained by the regular Swans crowd. It could grow its own identity and supporter base.

The Saturday afternoon twilight games would be ideal so the crowd could still get to their band gigs in Newtown after the game.