Power and Bulk

Look, I'm not going to lie. There's a guy in here, "Lockout", that makes this one of the least productive and most boring places to talk training on the internet, and no one can be bothered to ban him. Buyer beware. Arguments about minutiae. Ad hominems. Appeals to authority. Training #1.

People look at Mark Rippetoe as some sort of legend. He's an old fat guy with a beer gut that tries to teach "proper form", yet there are plenty of powerlifters pulling with a rounded back that deadlift a fuckload more than he ever did or any of his athletes ever will. Rippetoes starting strength routine will just induce people into a skinny-fat physique. It's low volume, which doesn't provide enough stimulus for muscle growth, and the weights shifted by beginners using the routine are meaningless. Add to that a gallon of milk and you're skinny fat. You'd be better just "fucking around" or "having fun" with weights. As far as "good" form preventing injury that's bullshit as well, to a certain extent (I'm not going into this in detail here though). He claims to be some kind of "pure" caoch, yet is affiliated with CrossFit, which makes me laugh. He gets pissed when people pirate his e-books, which gets on my fucking nerves as well. Anyone selling a book like SS deserves to have it pirated.

If anyone suggests a slight problem with a routine or dietary program Rippetoe immediately tells them to STFU and squat and drink a gallon of whole milk. That'll solve all your problems.

So yeah, Mark Rippetoe can fuck off.

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Ross Enamait, another charlatan, god that guy comes out with some shit. Claims he's a busy family man, yet makes time to update his status on facebook three or four times a day (even via a cellphone) and posts 12-15 posts a day on his messageboard, sits answering emails pretty much all day. Claims to work with high level boxers which is indeed true, but we're not talking any gods here. Matt Godfrey is the most famous boxer he's trained (you're all saying "Who?" right?).

His books are nicely presented but I'm afraid a lot of his info is bullshit. He claims to be injury free and suggests building up slowly to prevent injuries. Yeah, nice one Ross. If most people trained as Ross does or even how he suggests they'll probably encounter an injury, unless previously trained. For an untrained male the results would be pretty catastrophic. Hitting tires with sledgehammers and all that kind of crap is completely unnecessary. It seems the more bullshit "ideas" Ross comes up with the more the crowds applaud him.

He claims anyone can gain strength naturally and often discounts genetics which is purely wrong. He's done well naturally due to genetics and as a result, fails to comprehend that someone may have worked just as hard as him yet failed or got injured. He'll cite bad form or going "too hard too soon" which although in some cases is valid, I severely doubt Ross ever went easy in terms of training. He's a genetic freak in terms of injury, having never been injured once since his early twenties, and being a non-deadlifter, pulling 3x bodyweight and having not even a slightly sore back the next day. Genetics. He'd claim it's just hard work and dedication though. This again, is bullshit. It's often hard for genetic successes to accept that someone may not gain due to genetics. Ross is also naive enough to think top level 100m sprinters may not be taking steroids.

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There are others but most have already been exposed as money grabbing cocksuckers with bullshit advice, may years ago. These include - Matt Furey, Brooks Kubik, Budd Jeffries, I'm sure you know the crowd. Even Randall J Strossen is a bullshitter, gain 30lbs in 6 weeks with a gallon of milk and 20 rep squats. Sure Randy! You just missed the D-Bol part of that. Pavel Tsatsoulines advice is all geared towards misleading you into buying kettlebells.

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T-Nation gets an honourable mention as that site is pure bullshit. There was a recent article where they were claiming experienced bodybuilders were gaining 30lbs of LBM with no bf % increase in 6 weeks, without steroids. Of course the whole thing was a push at a new supplement they've brought out - Anaconda, which is a shite supplement. All of the writers are charlatans.

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Get into a good gym where people actually "train" and find some good caoches or experienced lifters. You'll learn a fuckload more, and what actually works. I'll never forget asking a group of powerlifters about diet and one of them just laughing.

All the special equipment like clubbells, kettlebells and so on can be easily home-made for a fraction of the retail price and is mostly ineffective anyway. Access to a barbell, dumbbell handles and plenty of plates is all you need. A bench and a rack is a nice commodity to have and most gyms provide it for you. Aside from that be sure to find a good source for steroids and you'll do just fine.

I read that a bunch of times. Does that hit home with any of you guys?

One thing I can admit is I probably made good gains in my 20's because I was naive and only believed in hard work. I used to think all my favorite heroes were drug free and just worked hard. Even worse, I used to buy into all the science bullshit coming from guys like Fred Hatfield.

What a fucking moron I must have been to actually believe in complicated training systems such as the ABC system. How even more stupid was I to think that Fred squatted that 1,008 lbs without drugs? And Fred's diet advice? It was so complicated you'd think you were building a rocket ship. It was too complicated to be implemented by an average dude or anyone who's actually sane. Can't work if it's too fucking complicated.

But my results in my 20's? I did pretty good. I'm sticking to my beliefs that you don't need drugs to get big and strong; it can be done with simple old fashioned hard work. But it's old fashioned naivety to believe that your favorite gurus never messed with any drugs. After all, they make money off the business, so they've got to have a way to attract the customers. Some of them have performed incredible feats. But it's naive to think that they didn't mess with any drugs to achieve it. Especially if it's out of the ordinary.

Clarence Bass is still my hero. Considering the fact that he's been ripped for decades and even now at 79 years old, yeah he's still my hero and a great inspiration to me. But he even admitted to fiddling with small doses of steroids in his prime. And I really don't care. I actually do believe that he's stayed natural after that. He's never been that big. The thing I'm thinking though is with his style, he does it right, fitness is his life, and his diet style in my opinion is obsessive. So it's no wonder he's always been ripped.

But me? I don't want to be a prisoner of my own diet. FUCK THAT!!! I want to live a normal life. Flexibility is the key word!

lockout wrote: I used to buy into all the science bullshit coming from guys like Fred Hatfield.

What a fucking moron I must have been to actually believe in complicated training systems such as the ABC system. How even more stupid was I to think that Fred squatted that 1,008 lbs without drugs?

Tell you what. I go to the same gym as Fred who now (in his older age) basically comes to caoch and communicate with our team of 700-800lb raw squatters and deadlifters. I can ask him if he still thinks his science is "bullshit". Dude is really fucking smart, is really fucking educated, and has decades of skin in the game. What the fuck do you have?

He has forgotten more about strength training and kinesiology than most people will ever know, and what remains is still a walking encyclopedia. Just because his books go over your head, don't mean that they are "complex", it just means you aren't on the same level, physically (did you squat a grand?) or mentally.

Joshua Davis wrote:Tell you what. I go to the same gym as Fred who now (in his older age) basically comes to caoch and communicate with our team of 700-800lb raw squatters and deadlifters. I can ask him if he still thinks his science is "bullshit". Dude is really fucking smart, is really fucking educated, and has decades of skin in the game. What the fuck do you have?

He has forgotten more about strength training and kinesiology than most people will ever know, and what remains is still a walking encyclopedia. Just because his books go over your head, don't mean that they are "complex", it just means you aren't on the same level, physically (did you squat a grand?) or mentally.

Fred has a college degree in psychology, a degree that I wouldn't even wipe my ass with. If I had a degree like that, I'd be ashamed to even tell people.

And it isn't that I don't understand his theories. It's just that I've seen people get world class results with much simpler programs.

So Fred can sit there and pretend all he wants that he's smart and that his theories are meaningful. But they aren't. You don't have to be smart to be strong. How much did Fred bench? 550? I know an actual retard that's benched that much.

See? Being strong and being smart aren't the same thing. Nobody ever said Paul Anderson was a genius and nobody ever said Einstein was strong. They are two completely different things.

Steroids are required to squat 1,000 lbs. Yet Fred used to ban talk about steroids on his forum, all while pushing bullshit supplements that didn't work.

And you actually raise a good point. Realistically most people probably aren't smart enough to understand those theories. If you can't understand it then you can't implement it. And if you can't implement it then it's pointless.

Adherence is everything. That's why all the folks I've known who trained only twice per week got such good results training that way. Because it's easy to adhere to.

Do you know who is Charles Bailey? His training was super simple and he lifted a lot more than Fred. And Fred was the one asking Charles why he did what he did. But it was dirt simple.

And you ask me who the fuck I am? Reminds me of the time a guy came into the gym arguing with me claiming he was a doctor insulting me and asking me what I did for a living. Meanwhile he had no clue who I was what my experience was how much I lifted who I lifted with, etc.. Seems retarded if you ask me. Maybe I'm a scientist or politician or maybe I'm just a janitor? Maybe I can bench 500 or maybe I can only bench 150? Maybe I've worked out at planet fitness or maybe I've trained with world record holders? If you don't know and you talk shit, you only end up making yourself look like a moron because you're trying to comment based on something you have to clue about.

Honestly, I've known some world class lifters who you'd have no clue about because they aren't interested in being famous. I know one older guy who benched 610 at 198 which was a world record in his class. Yet he doesn't claim to be anything special. He's a carpenter and almost never talks at all.

So? Today is the day of the Internet. Anyone can make a website and claim to be a guru and get a following. Anyone. And I believe you can achieve anything you want to if you want it bad and you try. But personally I just want to be a regular dude.

So go ahead and tell Fred. Tell him that some loser nobody keyboard jockey said that Charles Bailey lifted more than him and that his workout was much more simple. And tell him that this loser keyboard jockey said he saw an actual retard bench 550. Fred knows it's true. I'm sure if he's been in the game long enough, he's probably seen a dumb ass or even a retard (truly mentally handicap) bench that much. He knows those are facts that he can't deny.

Those are facts. And maybe I'm just a fat slob sitting behind the computer who's never touched a barbell in his life? Maybe? But even if, you still can't deny the facts that I just pointed out.

Joshua Davis wrote:Nah see man, see I am asking you who the fuck you are because I have no clue.

Doesn't matter. I'm not the one that bullshitted people to try and sell protein shakes.

You can't make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without peanut butter. You can't make a ham sandwich without ham. And you can't squat 1,000 lbs without anabolics. Anyone who says different is either naive or is just trying to sell protein shakes that make you shit yourself.

Science isn't real science if you don't have your facts straight. Fred sponsored Charles Bailey and put on his website that he used propower supplements. Now if he could convince me that Charles did the lifts that he did while ONLY using propower supplements, that'll be the day when I start believing in global warming being caused by people using too much aquanet hair spray.

If you're leaving the most important factors out of the literature of how you got your results, that's called bullshit, not science.

Question for the day: If a program has to be "scientific" to work, then why do such simple programs work so well? Why have so many people gotten world class results on so many different training systems that are very different than each other but are still for the same sport?

How about Metal Militia for example? Why does that workout work so well for countless people who have tried it? Thousands. People of all walks of life including teenagers, old ladies, and world class athletes of different weights ages and genders? Even though parts of it's design go against what would typically be thought to be common wisdom based on science?

If a program works, science can explain why it works. And simple workouts like Metal Militia work because they meet the basic requirements needed in order to achieve the goals of the program. Work the muscles hard and they grow. Lift heavy weights and you get stronger. Practice perfect technique in order to master it. Keep trying. It really is that simple. It isn't rocket science.

I mean come on man, you won't see basketball players in a class room drawing mathematical equations on a chalk board with integrals and matrices, etc.. And weightlifters don't need to either. Just get under the bar and lift the damn weight and try as hard as you can!!!

Doing something scientifically means more or less checking if shit actually works. Thinking is not a bad thing. You do not have to understand how something works to be good at it (Racecardrivers =/= mechanics). But someone had to -at some point- at least check by trial and error. The great caveman Ugh who lifted stones a couple times for those tasty insects beneath it and noticed his arms were a little thicker the next week was a goddamn scientist. Do not mock those who try to understand. They are the reason the rest of us can claim it is so easy to understand because most of the information has already been implanted in our brain as obvious.

The main principles to getting bigger and/or stronger might not be very hard to break down. Overload, fatigue managment, specificity, diet. That covers probably 95%+ of it. Five words! But saying it in a few words does not make it simple or easy. That is like boiling human history down to war and peace.

Simple programs (can) work because they make you do important stuff. Maybe you do other important stuff anyway but don't attribute it to the program (sleep, eat, take a break every now and then). Maybe your missing out the last 5-10 % but that small difference is usually meaningless given human talent ranges. So the best are still the best because they don't fuck up too bad and have the talent. The differences would only become important if a lot of people with very similar potential would vie for the top placings. And they would still be small!

This is not really the case for powerlifting. In weightlifting - alot more competition - there is less variation in training for top lifters. Of course there is some based on individual differences and priorities. But a lot less than in powerlifting. Because powerlifting is not yet optimized. That is one of the reasons Ray Williams can smack ~15% on the world record. A similar increase in weightlifting would be bonkers even with all the steroids in the world. And Ray's training is "simple".

So please, don't give people shit because they try for the last 5-10% and "overthink" training.

Selling protein as helpful is not lying. It is just a tiny part of the whole package. They don't have to write in every ad "Also, lift, eat, sleep, consider drugs for best progress. May require barbell"

Simple is not necessarily better. It is just simple.

We are all aware that the basic stuff is the most important. We don't need a reminder. We already lift.

Lifting gurus are in many ways like religious leaders. Yes, there is some bullshit and deception going on, but they help to keep the aimless in churches and gyms which is by and large a good thing.

As for Fred Hatfield specifically, I've always been a fan. I appreciate his logical approach and feel his compensatory acceleration principle was ahead of his time. Over the years I bought a ton of lifting books and ended up throwing most of them away, but Power: A Scientific Approach is still on my shelf.

PierreSuter wrote:Lifting gurus are in many ways like religious leaders. Yes, there is some bullshit and deception going on, but they help to keep the aimless in churches and gyms which is by and large a good thing.

As for Fred Hatfield specifically, I've always been a fan. I appreciate his logical approach and feel his compensatory acceleration principle was ahead of his time. Over the years I bought a ton of lifting books and ended up throwing most of them away, but Power: A Scientific Approach is still on my shelf.

Yeah, I agree with both points. Fred's a cool dude and actually did have an awesome forum back in the day. I had one of his older powerlifting books and it was pretty good. It was actually so old school that it even had info on ababolics because it was written before it became a taboo topic.

My only main criticism was simple designs sometimes work just fine and you don't have to be smart to do it. Brooks KUBIK would say press the bar as hard as you can with every rep, even your warm ups. And that actually is CAT without all the science jargon. In fact, it's so simple that even a retard could understand it. You really can't beat lifting with a group of friends spotting you and coaching you and pushing you to try harder than you thought you could. That part is all mental.

The other thing I bitched about matches up with what Fred said on his forum about 10 years ago. He said it's funny how everything gets recycled. Stay in the game long enough and you'll see people coming out with "new ideas" when in reality it was something you saw decades prior but back then you had a different name for it.

But I guess that's just a part of aging. Having already been there and done that and therefore looking at the younger generation as a bunch of whippersnappers.

You have skipped over the pretend-gurus floating around the gripboard/cesspool message board. Peddle your digital grip routines and secret routines to the masses. The number of them seems to have increased to the point that the board has become infested with said creatures. Perhaps that insect, Bill Piche, should eliminate all the Joe-cool trash...