The Angry Pharmacist needs YOUR help!

Like what you read here? Do I put a smile on your face? You wish you could help your old angry buddy? WELL HERES YOUR CHANCE!
My store has 3 pharmacists, 2 techs and averages about 370-450 rx/day. We’re looking into getting some robotic automation going. We’re looking at ScriptPro, Parada, etc etc etc. Something to carry our top 100 drugs so I can spend more time yelling at crackheads than counting out the vicodin and soma.
All the machines basically do the same thing being in the same price range with the sales drones saying the exact same shit. The sales tards dont use the machines, they arent pharmacists, and are about on par with Drug Reps. The’ll suck ya off to get a sale, and to make matters worse, the’re all males! Im confused and frustated!
So i’m asking you, my faithful readers, for your input as to which machine. Feature pissing you off? Feature pissing your techs off? Let me know! Let me learn from your mistakes!
Seriously! Not joking, I really do need help. No annoyance is too small or too insignificant!

115 thoughts on “The Angry Pharmacist needs YOUR help!”

Stay away from the Parada. Far away. I used to work with one, and my experiences trying to keep the damn thing going probably would qualify me to get a job as a Parada repairman.
When the Parada was working and running ok, I could fill about 30 an hour by myself working the graveyard shift. Key words -“when it was working” which was once I think. During the day they had a tech devoted to nothing but babysitting the thing. Which meant it saved them about zero minutes. The corpo-pharmacy chain I worked for eventually decided to quit buying them and started using someone else’s. If I remember right the company they ended up going with started with a “Y”. Good luck.

1).I have personally only used Baker Cells, which are cheaper and fine. They worked rather nicely in the pharmacy where I filled in as a temp. Script volume was same as yours, however usually only 1-2 pharmers per shift with same techs. Killer organization however with 3 work counters and defined tasks for the techs. Window, order entry, and counting wench. The pharmer sat high in the back & checked then counseled if needed. Not bad. They did the top 25 drugs only.
2).The outpatient pharmacy at the hospital I work uses Scriptpro. They like it. Compatible with the software they use. $$$ hohum.
3). Had a friend that worked with Prego, piranha, or whatever the hell it is. He hated it. I think one night he actually pissed on the motherboard.
4). Worked at one place where we used a speed wall. Top 200 drugs directly behind main fill station. We started doing a prepack thing where the top drugs we filled in common unit of use amounts 30/60, etc. Cheap and worked.
Good luck.

I love my Parata!!! I’m an overnight, so I pretty much use the parata all night long. Its a bad night when the thing is down (which thankfully has only happened to me once in a year and a half). If you get one, I can even teach you tricks on how to fix most problems without calling their help people (which I don’t have access to overnight anyway) – I’ve become buddies with the parata tech dude and he has taught me a multitude of tricks! The only things that are annoying – Tyl#3 counts in it are not reliable, even with constant calibration, and weirdly shaped tablets won’t work in the parata (no levoxyls, no clear caps like tessalon, no trapazoidal trazodones, no square polyviflors, alprazolam 2mg only when its in a good mood…)

Our store has Parata with about 3 rotating pharmacists, 6-7 techs, and about 500-600 scripts a day. When the machine is working it saves ALOT of time because it is able to fill and label the Rx. One tech is designated as Parata person to make sure all the cells are filled and the machine has vials. WHenever a vial is finished it is scanned out and placed at the counter for the pharmacist to check. Some benefits include fast filling and you can check the history to see if the medication has been scanned out. However it is a pain to set up a cell involving alot of calculations. So if you have frequent manufacturer changes for the rxs, it is a pain to format the cell. Also for some large pills, the machine has problems filling it and will do parital fills and then we would have to recount. Also because the amount of dust the machine produced, alot of the pharmacists and techs has red/watery eyes and sneezed alot until we got an air filter placed near the machine. Overall the machine is convenient but expect it to not always work and to put alot of maintenace and time into it.

My pharmacy uses Parata Max. We have 2. We have 15 Pharmacists and 15 techs everyday as we are a high volume hospital pharmacy. We average 1500 rx a day! Yes, A DAY! WE have had our Max’s for about 2 mths and love them. They are easy to use and upkeep.

I am a tech for a compounding pharmacy. We have had casetts, baker cells, acumeds, etc. We upgraded to the parata RDS and the to the MAX. Yes, the bot does go done due to lack of maintanence and network issues. If cells are properly cleaned and meds are poured in the dust free funnel befor pouring into cells, it would save lots of trouble. Now sensors are another factor. Using a static free dust cloth to wipe down the bot would help with sensor issuses. We run six pharmacists and seven techs. two input techs and five fill techs. We put out about 1200 plus a day not including nuresing homes are any state facilities. We love the Parada better then any other automation we have had. Bakers cells slowed us down and I think they no longer make.
Parata has a good product, they are the same company whom makes the xbox360.

I’ve heard the same repeatedly. I think ScripPro has the highest rated Customer Service, Support, and Training rating. I work for a chain which has about 700 of these. So, keeping them UP 7/24 is important.

We have used a Scriptpro 200 for 4 years now in our pharmacy…the thing works like a charm. We have had maybe 5 days where it has been down for more than 1/2 an hour. The Sales staff is anoying but the technical support and customer service is amazing, it makes the purchase that much more useful. Coupled with the new stuff they are coming out with, its excellent. You just have to make sure you train the shit out of a tech so that they can keep it up to date. If you get it, you will not be dissapointed…damn I am starting to sound like a salesperson. If I had my own pharmacy, I would have a scriptpro…never used a Prada before so I cant comment on it much…good luck.

I’ve worked with two different filling machines.
First one was Baker cells. Rather efficient.
Pros: holds and fills 90+ different drugs; seperate dispensing chutes; cells are easy to fill (even has shelfs beneath to hold stock bottles and whatnot).
Cons: can back up easily (example, 2 scripts for Vicodin – #30 and #20 – print out. Bakers spits out #30, then beep constantly till you take pills out of chute, then spits out #20); get dirty quickly (especially the powdery pills)
The 2nd one I’ve worked with (and still do now) is a Yuyama.
Pros: holds 199 drugs; greater holding capacity than Baker cells; 3 cells have separate dispensing chutes to separate drugs with common allergies (eg. we use Pen VK, SMZ/TMP, and Sulfasalazine); Yuyama dumps pills into vial and labels for you; has 15 windows to hold vials till you’re ready to grab them; touch-screen computer interface (with logging feature); company doesn’t require sending old cells back to get new ones (like Baker)
Cons: runs smooth untils it needs attention (needs vials, labels, ink ribbons, empty cell, pill drop); in most cases, if 1 of these problems occurs, Yuyama almost completely stops until tech/RPh fixes.
I personally like the Yuyama; it works very well in our store because I fill the whole thing when I work every Sunday (best to fill ahead, not just when it gets empty, if you ask me). In my opinion though, it usually has best benefits in higher volume stores (average volume > 350 rx/day).
I personally recommend either one of these machines, but I don’t know the prices of either of these robots (machine, maintainence, replacement parts, etc.). Hope this helps!!

Stay far away from the Parata and go with Script-pro. I’ve worked with both, and the Script-Pro is by far the better of the two machines. The store I am currently working with has a Parata and the damn thing is a huge paper weight. It breaks down all the time, is extremely loud (sounds like a big rig letting the air out of it’s brakes), and has no real work flow system to speak of. I have also worked with the script-pro bot and workflow system, and that is far superior than Parata. We’ve had the script-pro for nearly 4 years and with the work flow system and doing 500-600 scripts a day makes the days so much easier. The script-pro is a lot quieter, and has less breakdowns. If you want to see the system in action and are around the Bakersfield, CA area shoot me an e-mail and I can get you a contact that would be more than happy to let you see the system in action. Love the blog, and keep up the good work, Cheers.

Walgreens uses mostly Yuyama. It works really well. Some stores have the Parata. Everyone hates the Parata in comparison the the Yuyama. More repair problems than the Yuyama. I used a ScriptPro at “Tite-Aid” when I worked overnights, It was okay. It seems to need more daily care than the Yuyama. I would go with the scriptpro over the parata if Yuyama is not a choice.

We have 4 rotating pharmacists and multiple techs. RX per day is between 650-800 scripts. We use the Yuyama and it is horrible. It constantly breaks, and requires more hours of attention vs. the amount of hours it actually helps you. We all hate it. For the amount of money it costs($750,000) you can hire 1000 techs for the rest of your life, and deal with less aggravation. If you change pill manufacturers, which our company seems to do every day, you have to order a different cell to fit the pill size. This can take up to 3 months to receive. The best and most cost efficient choice is the automatic baker cells. Boy do I miss those. They are quick and easy to maintain. No they do not label the bottle, but how long does that really take? You must avoid the Yuyama at all costs, for your own sanity.

Used Baker, parata and yuyama. Only used the parata a little bit since it’s not in my store…i like it….only thing is it need feeding often…vials,etc. THe good thing with parata over baker and “the beast” as i call it, is in cell management. With baker and the beast you have to wait for the cells to come to your store if you want to switch something out…parata…just a few adjustments and its switched. Yes it takes a few minutes…but i find a few minutes with the machine rather than 15 minutes on the phone with baker is a better thing.
Baker also has script software too…which when i was with the evil empire before they switched to their own proprietary garbage…worked great. It had imaging and sorting of bins by numbers for those who like organization. Baker can get log jammed like someone else was saying…where the beast and parata don’t.

I work in a store that has 280-450 scripts a day with all the new stores being built around us. We have baker cells and I think they are better than the robots. I have worked with a prata and thought it was worthless. It only takes a few seconds more to walk over and get the pills out of the cells your self. If you go with a machine, stay away from the prata

Parata & Yuyama are both very efficient IF they are working. Parata sorts orders by last names whereas Yuyama goes by Rx numbers. Parata caps vials but Yuyam doesn’t.
Yuyama is much easier to maintain. Easier to load labels, drugs & vials. I could load Yuyama label by myself following the machine’s diagram on the first trial. Parata won’t operate even you put in the label correctly if you happen to have 1 roll of label that its sensor doesn’t like. One dumps vials into Yuyama compartment from the box versus manually put in vials in Parata chute one by one. Overall, Parata breaks down much more frequently than Yuyama.

This will be my second time trying to comment. You have this line in your comment options:
If you have a TypeKey identity, you can sign in to use it here.
Only if I click on that link, TypeKey informs me that you do not subscribe to that service. Why the hell is it there then?
Sorry I don’t have any suggestions.

stay far far away from parata…
A. parata seems to develop a sudden affinity to destroy controls…you think that you are getting a prescription for lorazepam when the bottle is finally ready you discover the parata decided to grind the pills up and dispense powder instead.
B. the robotic arm has a mind of its own.. will fill a prescription start to bring it to you and then just decide to turn it upside down and dump the fucking pills into the middle of the machine…
And heres the best…if it totally malfunctions (which i pray never happens to you) it will open all the doors, release all the compressors and spit every god damn pill in the cells into the center of the machine…
good investment walgreens…..ugh!!!

I’m really hopeful that your are correct. Pharmacist need to know and understand that they have a safe work environment, given the seriousness of the DANGER. I have not heard that anything has changed, where are you getting your into. I rechecked the FDA website, and the Maude Report still stands without additional commentary. As for the Greenguard, this was done immediately after the original claims … more marketing Award than anything else. I have read their certification and little to do with the Maude report or the follow-up NIOSH studies, which I have followed closely. Both FDA and NIOSH are pointing to the micro-size of the drug dust, which at 2.5 nm pass right through your lungs and go directly into the blood system. This size would pass through any N95 Respirator as well, which was the WHO guidance for protection against any Avian virus like the SARS outbreak in Asian 15yrs ago. The Greenguard certification/award as I read 5 yrs ago, was directed at OSHA levels for dirt and dust, as you would sweep from the floor or coming thru your air vent or smoke from various sources. This is totally different subject and a much larger particle size and no pharmaco-activity. Please read the NIOSH studes on Pill Dust, their concerns are very specific.

I’d love to see specifically Parata engineering changes plus the retrofit plans for the 2000 pharmacy units in the field.

The robotic arm are you are referring too is called a gripper assembly and does not do a 180 degree rotation, it does not turn upside down, maybe you are sending more pills than the 30 dram vial can handle causing it to overflow and not cap properly? Anyways blaming a car because you can’t drive stick doesn’t make the car defective. As for the doors, the Parata Max doesn’t have any doors and only has 1 compressor which is used to send the pills from the canister to the vial. If by doors you mean panels, they do not open by latch or sensor, they are screwed in, the unit will not dispense without a vial present. Sorry to hear about your horror story with this unit, if used correctly by a well tranined pharmacy technician and maintained it is a very reliable unit. Cheers

I own a Parata and it by far is the best machine on the market. Had I not made the investment 2 years ago my pharmacy would not have survived. We needed to significantly grow our volume without throwing more labor at the problem. In the time we have had Parata, we more than doubled our volume without adding a person. I think it is interesting that most of the bashing comes from these chain store drones that couldn’t use the bathroom without asking their boss for a lav pass. When they are through justifying their lowly existence and have the stones to be a business owner and not a worker bee, come talk to me. Back to Parata…it is the most intuitive system on the market and yes, like any complex machine, there are issues. However, most people with a grade school education (this is where chain store pharmacist will get confused) could solve the problems themselves. They also have the most knowledgeable tech support and field service in the industry, I wish my software vendor had the same! You cannot go wrong with what Parata provides and ignore the rants of misinformed chain space monkeys…they know not what they speak…

I’ve used them all and here’s how I rank them:
1. Parata – clear leader; on-site calibration, small footprint, FAST, ACCURATE, great service when there are issues.
2. Yuyama – not bad except holds only 15 finished scripts before the machine shuts down and when you need replacement cells they are sent on a slow boat from Japan…..lame
3. ScriptPro – has been technology that is great if you like watching pills count at 1 pill per second. You’re better off with a Baker Universal or Kirby Lester than this piece of shit

I currently work with the Baker Cells and I love them. I don’t see the need for the prescription filling robots like the parata or the yuyama, even though the pharmacy managers in my district decided that our store needed a yuyama. I guess it will make things a little easier, but I don’t see why it was so much of a hassle to walk five feet dump the pills out of the cell and slap the label on yourself. Overall, I guess we will be able to increase our script volume greatly. We currently do between 400-500 scripts a day on average. We are gonna be the first non 24 hour Walgreens in Omaha to have the yuyama. It comes in next week, so when we get it I’ll let you know how I like it
R.I.P. Baker Cells

Yuyama-The only way to fly. Very reliable and if or when Josephine(we named her after the Yuyama service guy from Los Angeles that installed it)doesn’t want to play nice support here is top notch. Just a call and I’d say about 95 % of the time the she’s back up and running. The other 5 % they’ve been out to repair it at the drop of a hat even if we’re the ones to blame. The Yuyama only uses 20 and 40 dram vials -we learned the hard way. It was a bit scary at first but when you adjust and learn how to incorporate it into the flow it’s awesome. Maintenance is done with a can of compressed air and it takes less than 5 minutes to clean her every couple weeks.
Someone here in this forum mentioned the Yuyama cells coming from Japan-nowadays they’re assembled here in the U.S. so the turn around is now usually 3-5 days. The Parata “adjustable” cells suck anyways so that shouldn’t even be taken into consideration. Also when 15 scripts are finished it definitely does not shut down-you need to take those vials out so the others can be filled-this is what I meant by incorporating it into the flow! The Yuyama doesn’t need a baby sitter either like the Parata does.
There’s a Parata in the area I’ve had the opportunity to learn to hate. If or when it runs it’s noisy which none of the sales people ever tell you about because it’s got a vacuum pump. It sounds like a vacuum running when it’s filling. Imagine that at a high volume pharmacy.
Parata does have some good features but what good are those features when the thing hardly works? I know a Parata guy and all he did was rip on the Yuyama “technology” for not being the latest and greatest. I’m not sure if it’s true but the Yuyama is the more reliable choice.
If you were to take all(I mean all) the meds spilled on the inside of a Parata you could have one helluva party-I probably could have cured cancer with the mix of meds in the bottom of it.
Don’t get me wrong though-the Yuyama has spilled inside also, but it was usually due to fill quantities you enter for each size vial. We doubled the qty for a 40 dram by mistake by accident and had smz everwhere.
Here’s a quote from another pharmacist:
“It’s painted white but it should have been painted brown to what it really is.”

I have worked with all three systems, baker, parata, and yuyama, and all have their own benefits, I prefer the yuyama system since the company made improvements to the machine’s dispensing and canister’s. An earlier post that the system cost $750,000 is completely ridiculous, all three are in the similar price range.

Hi,
I am a small repair shop who repairs all of the ScriptPro keypads for a major drugstore chain. In doing so…I see alot of the same problem with the keypads. If anyone is looking for a vendor to fix these keypads… I have much experience! Send me an e-mail and I can provide you with our quote… which is significantly lower than Scriptpro charges.
thanks

I have a like new Scriptpro 200 for Sale. We purchased a company that had this but we don’t need it. Price will include calibration and installation by Scriptpro. Call me if you are interested 562-228-5758.

We ordered our 3rd Parata RDS to fill the gap left when our Script Pro died (terminal this time). We are expanding to another location and will be dumping the POS Y machine (takes too long for all the replacement parts, too much downtime).

So what did you end up with? There is something out there called ROBOTx. It’s form Innovation. They’ve been doing automation for a while but the Robot seems new. The nice thing there is you can start with something smaller than a robot and grow as needed

It’s obivous some of you are speaking out of your ass. If you can’t spell the name of the robotic company that you’re using, which by the way is plastered all over the robot, then I highly doubt that you’ve ever been around a robot. By the way, the company I’m referring to is Parata, not Parada.
I deal with the Angry Pharamcists and clones on a daily basis and I have to ask, why is the Angry Pharmacist so angry? Is it becasue his business as he knows (knew) it is crumbling down around him and he doesn’t know what to do, except bitch & whine. What to do. What to do. I know, how about acting like a business owner, a business owner, not some sniveling nerd hiding behind the counter by fives.
99% of pharmacy owners, wait 99.9%, don’t have a clue on how to evaluate software, automation and work flow, managing inventory or how to control their drug reps. He just bitches because he doesn’t know what to do. “Boy, the business has really changes, it’s not like the old days.” Not shit, Poindexter. What business hasn’t changed?
It’s not your Daddy’s pharmacy anymore!!

We have a Yuyama dispensing unit at the Walgreens I workat. It seems to work pretty good as a matter of fact, we do about 300+ RX’s per day, and we have very few issues, Im not saying they don’t have any, but we have yet to have a major problem with ours. The only real pain is when inventory comes around emptying all the 200 cells sucks

One thing I would urge pharmacists to consider when looking at automation options is the vial they are configuring the robot for. Please stay away from the Owens (now British owned Rexam) 1-Clic vial. It costs at least TWICE the price of any other vial and changing to another vial after the robot is delivered can cost as much as $20,000. Some machines like Automed can only accept this vial making them a bad choice for anyone. As an example 500 scripts per day with an Automed R800 configured with 1 Clic vial, you will spend over $71,489 in vials per year. If you chose a ScriptPro SP 200 or 300 configured with Pharmacy-Lite reversible vial you would spend $23,557 per year… a net savings of $47,931. This is a real savings to consider. If any one has any questions about vial compatability and want real answers about vial choices feel free to e-mail me seanb@kellnet.com

Folks who read this, keep in mind Parata just started selling RDS units back in late 05, I’m pretty sure. The 06 commenters were early adopters. Seems like the 07 commenters are a lot happier with their Paratas and it’s just getting better.
Anyway, all I know is I’ve seen some at tradeshows and they look pretty slick (I realize tradeshow models don’t suffer from downtime, etc, usually). The ScriptPro looked slow in comparison. If I can manage to scrape up the cash (smaller pharmacy here), I’ll probably look into Parata first.

We were apparently one of the early adopters of the Parata system. The first few months were indeed a bit painful. As someone else pointed out, when the thing worked it was great, but at that time you just never knew what to expect. We went through periods where I wondered what we had gotten ourselves into.
After some time, many tech support encounters, and some learning experiences for us, things really settled down. The growth that followed ultimately resulted in our looking into automation at our other location. At that point I had no hesitation to order another Parata. It did not seem to need anywhere near as much as the first one did initially. The smoother experience with the second machine could be partially due to technical refinements, or due to the fact we had already overcome the initial learning curve. If we opened another store today I would go with Parata again.

Our pharmacy uses the Parata and our techs love it. Personally, I’ve used both SP200 (Slow-Pro 200) and the Parata, and I definately favor the Parata. For us it was much cheaper, 1/2 the footprint, and capped the vials (most of the time). Also it is way faster. We’ve had little downtime; certainly no more than what I experiences with SP200.

Angry pharmacists with ScriptPro Owens chutes, Parata, AutoMed and many other systems call me at Five Star Supplies. We are ScriptPro certified compatible with Owens and our vial are Half the price of Owens, kerr, etc. Contact me direct at johr@tampabay.rr.com or 813-910-0799.

I have seen the 3 big robotic automation players over the last few years, which I consider to be Parata, ScriptPro, and Yuyama. All have their positives and negatives. Parata has an air dispense that will get moisture in the drug cells, they have a lot of machine downtime, and their service is pretty slow. ScriptPro I’ve never gotten to work with but its too big, also my coworker tells me it drops a lot of pills inside the robot and that the vials get stuck. At my current pharmacy, we have a Yuyama. I think the Yuyama is the best bet, although you have to get new drug cells when there are drug changes and that usually takes a few days. We’ve been pleased with the robot and the service. I’d like to see more Yuyamas.

I work in a pharmacy with a Parata. The thing needs constant maintenance, is down a lot, and everyone hates it. I found some of the positive posts about Parata here interesting because its been my belief that Parata started selling machines before getting all the machines’ bugs worked out. We just keep trying to give it more chances, but Parata service guys are slow and half-ass. Either all Paratas are this bad or we got a lemon.

Sorry to rain on the script pro but I absolutely cannot stand ours at Rite Aid. It may just be that it is an older machine in which Rite Aid is too fucking broke to ever replace or the fact that we pump out 500-600 rx’s per day so it seems to break down more. In the past 2 years we have had to have our motherboard replaced twice and extra memory added. Supposedly the memory became so full on ours it dumped and I (being the graveyard pharmacist who gets stuck with the shit jobs) had to reload all our NDC’s with description of the tablets into the machine. I have worked with Baker Cells before and they are simple and efficient. Keep up the good work… you guys speak the truth in pharmacy!

I love the SCRIPTPRO. Clean, quiet (relatively), efficient … worked with others, but the on-site cell calibration is worth its weight in gold since RiteAid DC changes generic NDCs almost weekly. Fuymama and Parata don’t do this and I have cell down for days or weeks.

Most problems are self inflicted or caused by RiteAID support technicians who don’t know anything about the robot and break more than they fix. Rite Aid is too cheap to have ScriptPro support the product … I have independent Rx friends with the same machine but supported by ScriptPro and they are never down … not even a cell.

Please beware that the Parata RDS/Max/Min have recently been linked with a “fatal flaw” in their technology.
The Air Pressure design, blows “Pill Dust” out to the common air supply of the pharmacy. Check out:
1) http://www.alburtylab.com
2) google a “parata pill dust” to find more
I have been investigating this and working with OSHA and CDC NIOSH for some time regarding this issue. Presently, chasing a 5 member cancer cluster working at the same Parata Pharmacy, four women and 1 male.
Please research this matter seriously. Its not just a decision of dollars, adjustible cells, counting time, capping, noise, or if you can spell the vendor’s name. Your life and those of your employees may be at stake.
My name is Bob
My email is hrmchan@charter.net
I will answer questions on where to get information, access to OSHA or CDC Niosh, but not discuss my present work.

My name is Nanette Kirsch and I work for Parata Systems. Please allow me to add a bit of truth to “Dr. Bob’s” posting. “Dr. Bob” is paid by another automation provider to disparage our technology using misinformation from the Alburty Lab “study” (also funded by this competitor).
Alburty Labs contention that the use of Parata in retail pharmacies negatively affects air quality is patently untrue. Testing under OSHA standards demonstrated Parata RDS to be 120 times better than the regulated worker exposure limit set by OSHA. Further, Parata has nearly 2,000 Parata RDS units in the field, and has not had a single reported air-quality incident.
Alburty Lab, employed a methodology that does not comply with the NIOSH testing specifications required by OSHA. Rather, the study is based on EPA standards for outside ambient air, which must be measured against data accumulated for at least three years, not merely 24 hours.
The authors acknowledge that these standards do not apply to the operation of Parata equipment. So does University of Kansass Dennis Lane, in a “peer review” letter posted to Alburty’s site, The comparison of results with ambient air standards is like comparing apples with oranges. I suggest you downplay this comparison in the report.
Our competitor has promoted misinformation about Parata for several years. Parata has chosen to maintain its focus on serving our customers and improving safety and convenience for Americas pharmacy consumers.
Only Parata technology can significantly and safely reduce labor requirements in your dispensing operation, so that you can reduce or redeploy staff to provide more patient care help grow sales.
NCPA Pfizer Digest reveals that the top 25 percent of pharmacies have costs 10 percent lower and sales per employee 10 percent higher than their counterparts.
Let Parata put your pharmacy out in front. http://www.parata.com

No explanation needed, just read the truth. No slant, No untruth, No polarizing commentary. Just Read for yourself … the FDA is slow, but once they have made this kind of warning, you can trust it to be backed by 1000 pieces of evidence based analysis.

This is my 1st POST, but I’ve read Angry Pharmacist for years. I’m just very tired of the ” BS ” from all points of view, so I attempted to research thoroughly this POST, for this response. I’m also fairly techy on Robotics from having worked with ScripPro, Parata, Baker, Kiber, and Yuhama systems. I’m just very “pissed” at the ” BS ” I read on Angry Pharmacist and what to find some real TRUTH.

First: Nanette’s (Parata Employee) comment about “exposing truths” to Dr. Chan’s 2009 posting is exposed FULLY by the 2010 FDA Maude Report against the Parata robot. Please read the shocking warning by the FDA. It is serious and backed by hospital admissions and medical follow-up.

Second: Nanette’s attempt to disqualify Dr. Chan’s remarks are displaced. I also researched and found Dr. Chan on FB. Dr. Chan is a executive management consultant, previously with Ernst & Young, he is also a CLinical Pharmacist, PharmD, Board Member for a Calif School of Pharmacy, and previously a SVP for Express Scripts … so I think this guy is the “REAL DEAL” although Parata appears to be attempting to belittle his commentary as PAID Pros. Ughhh … Nanatte, aren’t you PAID by Parata????? As to the comment of being PAID, I could not find Confirmation or Denial of this.

Third: The Parata employee also makes statements of Parata receiving a first ever 2009 GreenGuard Environmental Indoor Certification Award. Well, I think the “first ever” is the self proclaimed reality for this Award. GreenGuard Environmental Institute is not a Air Quality Test Firm. In the same, verbage they appear to be attempt to defame the Alburty Test Reports on the Parata. Without getting into detailed history, Alburty appears to be a commercial Air Quality Test Company, with plenty of Federal and Commercial experience … GreenGuard does not have this legacy, that I could confirm. But interesting, while I was at the 2009 CPHA Annual Convention I spoke with someone familiar on the issue and stated that Parata PAID $25,000 for the Study and Award, plus a $5,000 annual maintenance fee (sorry but this is heresay and not verified). Also, sorta coincidental that this Test and Award occurs just after the 2008 publishing of the Alburty Report. But to ALL “he said, she said” … the 2010 FDA Maude Report against Parata, puts everything to rest. Parata installations are placing at least some workplace employees at injury risk.

OH, sorry but not trying to sound like anti-Parata because I’m not, but since Parata has come out to defend against comments of posters with little resources, I just can’t help but to support the little guy. So, Nanette can you confirm the GreenGuard Environmental Institute is really NEXT DOOR to Parata or at least across the hall in the same building. My little BIRD, told me this also and that this NEW GreenGuard 1st time award was an invention just to combat the Aburty Report?

FOURTH: Nanette, you also brought up a bunch of Technical issues about the Test Data from Alburty vs the GreenGuard Testing, plus Dr. Chan’s remarks. I’m not an Industrial Engineer so I’m a little out of water, but my cousin is an engineer plus I contacted NIOSH myself to find the TRUTH. I became enlightened, although the work was pretty detailed, but you are pretty wrong on multiple levels. I hope I can sort them clearly for our Angry Pharmacist readers and posters. Point #1, you state this is a OSHA area, when in reality it is a CDC/NIOSH jurisdiction. NIOSH has conducted several HHE (Health Hazard Evaluations) in 2008 in pharacies on this matter, but none with a Parata Systems, which surprises me given the 2010 Maude Report Warning on Parata. Point #2, you state that Parata is 120x better than OSHA requirements using the GreenGuard data. Here’s there links:

But the gross error is Nanette’s statement that Parata has 120x higher Air Qualify Standards than required by OSHA. This is the “slight of hand” or misinformation of the truth by Nanette and Parata occurs. The subject is fairly technical and I needed assistance myself by my cousin to understand. What Parata is referring to in the 120X figure is what OSHA calls “nuisance dust” or what we pharmacist call “dirt” in the pharmacy. The same standard Parata is using are applied to garages, warehouses, and retail stores But this is not what Alburty Labs has measured or what Dr. Chan is reporting. Pill Dust from a robot is a different
Health Risk measurement altogether. Read the enclosed CDC/NIOSH HHE (Health Hazard Evaluations) they go into the subject more. What NIOSH and ALBURTY LABS are measuring and Dr. Chan remarks are attempting to alert us on is the Air Borne Medication Dust or Pill Dust which is being released into the breathable Pharmacy Air Space and unknowingly inhaled by employees. Nanette and Parata through misdirection and misinformation are trying reflect their exceptional high standards by using the OSHA “dust standard” as their reference point and is what GreenGuard measured for them. But the TOPIC is about API’s (a NIOSH definition for Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient) because the particles are “pharmaceutically active” and when in very very particle size, like 1 – 2.5 microns … will upon breathing will pass directly from the lungs into the blood system. NIOSH also recognizes concerns that with ROBOTs dispensing 100’s of drug, multiple exposures and inhalations of multiple drugs may potentially result in the greatest risk. NIOSH uses OEL’s (occupational exposure limits) when available in dealings with API, but for most drugs they don’t exist. So, a lot of work remains.

NIOSH Comments: ” … Most APIs do not have OELs set by federal agencies or national organizations. Because pharmaceuticals are biologically active and typically water soluble, OELs for nuisance dusts or “particles not otherwise specified” do not apply [ACGIH 2012]”.

I could go on, but I think that I’ve made my point. There are rumors that Parata has fixed the problem in newer model, but I’d like to be assured that there is a massive retofit being scheduled by Parata for benefit of the workers already being exposed.

Parata Max is a piece of crapp. Not reliable or accurate. Requires full time baby sitting. What a sickening feeling to have spent so much money on a worthless contraption. Mine has been shit off for two months, one month before my first payment was due. DOnt buy it!

I have found Sean Brennan’s message above to be inaccurate. The Automed R800 machine is compatible with Rexam, Berry (Kerr), and Tri-State vials.
And since you load it by dumping vials into it, you do not have to buy new vial chutes if you decide to switch vials.
Keep in mind that it costs $4-5K per vial chute to switch to a different type of vial if you have a Script-Pro. I would image it is also a similar expense for a Parada.

so… Parada has now had the ParadaMax out for a while, while our wholesaler (AmerisourceBergen) is recommending the Yuyama (ie AutoMed) as an integrated solution, as AmerisourceBergen purchased the robotics company giving ABC customers more leverage in dealing with tech/customer support. I do not care for the pill bins, but as an ABC customer I am offered 40 free bins a year, and they are mine to keep, so I can hold on to them… I was really leaning towards the ParadaMax, but now I don’t know what to think.

GREENGUARD Environmental Institute today announced that it has awarded the first-ever GREENGUARD Indoor Air Quality Certification for pharmacy to Parata RDS. With nearly 2,000 units in U.S. pharmacies, it’s important validation of our continued commitment to put our customers out in front, in addition to:
• Innovating air-driven counting technology, with its unmatched speed,
productivity and accuracy.
• Delivering significant, measurable labor savings in dispensing with our
next-generation Parata® Max™ and Mini™.

Learn more about indoor air quality at greenguard.org, and visit parata.com.

Think “pharmacy owner” above pretty much answered this … its actually pretty funny what he says.

pharmacy owner … “Third: The Parata employee also makes statements of Parata receiving a first ever 2009 GreenGuard Environmental Indoor Certification Award. Well, I think the “first ever” is the self proclaimed reality for this Award. GreenGuard Environmental Institute is not a Air Quality Test Firm. In the same, verbage they appear to be attempt to defame the Alburty Test Reports on the Parata. Without getting into detailed history, Alburty appears to be a commercial Air Quality Test Company, with plenty of Federal and Commercial experience … GreenGuard does not have this legacy, that I could confirm. But interesting, while I was at the 2009 CPHA Annual Convention I spoke with someone familiar on the issue and stated that Parata PAID $25,000 for the Study and Award, plus a $5,000 annual maintenance fee (sorry but this is heresay and not verified). Also, sorta coincidental that this Test and Award occurs just after the 2008 publishing of the Alburty Report. But to ALL “he said, she said” … the 2010 FDA Maude Report against Parata, puts everything to rest. Parata installations are placing at least some workplace employees at injury risk.”

I was reading another thread somewhere that Greenguard Envir. Inst. had the same address or was in the same building as Parata … makes funny sense. ” … first ever award, what does that mean? ” Marketing is such as funny game.

I am considering the purchase of a robot for our pharmacy. However, in talking with others who’ve worked with robots, I’ve found that a pharmacist usually needs to count out the pills anyway since a lot of the robots dispense extra pills. The concept of specialized drug cells that Yuyama, AmerisourceBergen, and Kirby Lester use sound like the superior design, but I don’t know enough about them. What is the opinion on these? I just don’t feel comfortable purchasing a robot with universal drug cells. Thanks

We installed a parata Max in our store in May 16 2009… I have never seen a machine that works so good.. the count is very accurate… System count, Labels and caps… if you don’t believe me go to a store that has a Parata MAX or go to a trade show… Thank God I don’t have to count pill anymore…..

This is funny, but seriously … I read an article on the FDA Website that said the Parata Max blows out air into the pharmacy which is loaded with Pill Dust and being inhaled by pharmacy staff. People got hospitalized … ouch ! Glad I are in a clean and healthy environment with our ScriptPro.

I am currently in the market for a robot also. I have talked to and visited about a dozen pharmacies with Parata or Scriptpro. I found the ones that were happy with their machines were the stores that had a tech savy person on staff to fix the little things that go wrong with both machines. Those little things shut down the machine and you can’t wait for tech support to come out and fix them. Never the less, I am leaning toward a Parata.

There is so much Godawful spin here! I hope no one buys this crap they are feeding you. Its just so unrealitic. In all my pharmacy career, I don’t know one person who likes working with Parata. Even Walgreens is regretting buying them in the first place. There needs to be a comment board for real pharmacists and not just robot companies disguised as pharmacists.

Hey I work for SmearPro. We recently invested in a research campaign that backfired and blowed up in our face, resulting in a tumor in our embarassmentasm. Does that make the mad scientist we paid liable for damages? I’d like to go for the big bucks if possible thanks.

At least Amerisourcebergen (Yuyama distributor in the USA) brings you into other users that have used Parata and Scriptpro to talk to competent pharmacy owners who got burnt and a few of the ABC customers who can tell you why they rejected the other guys and selected ABCTG with 1200+ customers, might be worth your while.

Oh, addidtionally, they just don’t sell equipment and drugs (which gives you more clout) but maintain Lobbyists in D.C. who have thwarted the implementation aof the Average Manufactureres Price implementation (the death knell for small independents) and hold forums with industry leasders in Pharmacy to come up with how the negative government polociies can be stopped. That is because they have a lot more to lose if you go out of business than just a company that does a quick hit on you for automation. Think about it.

This is all very amusing, but can someone give me a price difference (ball park) between the ScriptPro 200, the Parata Max and the AmerisourceBergen FastFill 220 (Yuyama machine)? It sounds like they all have varying pros and cons. I’ve heard anywhere from $80,000 to $750,000 on this board … help please?

I had worked with a Parata for a few years. I think it was a good machine, but Parata’s maintenance department just was never there when we needed them. The machine was down a lot, which defeats the purpose of the robot, and it will force you to question your investment altogether.

This is reverse of the general marketplace open is. Everywhere I read, ScriptPro has the #1 Customer Service rating. Parada is near the mid-point or lower.

Some chains try to support their own ScriptPro, when they have 100’s and 100’s … stupid thought but true. Are you one of those chains? If you are an Independent and have this problem, just call their HQ. I’m sure they would have made it right. I’ve read dozens of reviews which said ScriptPro is #1

see Eric’s Comment below, its the post just before your post, this is what I mean !!!!

——————————————-

Eric P. says:
December 2, 2009 at 4:21 pm

I had worked with a Parata for a few years. I think it was a good machine, but Parata’s maintenance department just was never there when we needed them. The machine was down a lot, which defeats the purpose of the robot, and it will force you to question your investment altogether.
——————————————

I have used scriptpro 200 and central for several years and both are awesome. I am looking to sell both due to a pending sale to a chain. there are no issues with either, it is just time to do compounding only for me. We have averaged as many as 500 per day with no problems. As mentioned by others, the service level is incredible and our down time has been very rare. If we are down, they are on site the next morning with the repair in hand. If anyone is interested in discussing the possibilty of buying these 2 excellent pieces of technology, please email me @ jbmedman@aol.com

Stay away from Parata and Innovation. They both use air compressors to blow pills into vials and consequently blow pill dust all over the pharmacy. Their sales reps will tell you it is safe, but they are actually quite clueless since they don’t work in pharmacy and don’t know anything about the formulary being dispensed. Go look at a pharmacy that has one of these machines for a few months and look at all the pill dust around the machine.

Don’t believe anything you read from ScriptPro employees trying to peddle their ancient technology. The only way they can sell you their crap is by putting mad scientists on the payroll that will do “studies” that prove their product is safer than the competitions.

I would encourage everyone to look at all the automation on the market and see what best fits their needs. Make sure you ask the tough questions, and rate them accordingly. Automation is helpful but buy what you need and use this forum to report your compare and contrast or ask for clarifcation. I hate to see sales reps post their info on this site so report facts not hype. For example Innovation does use compressed air but not to count or in their dispensers only to run the robotic arm. SP is a good machine, and was at one time a great option now it is just dated and older technology.

… well said Scott. All of the automation has strong and weak points. Here is a hint, you know you are probably not getting accurate information if the information is negative and is coming from a competitor. In my experience, there is one company in the automation industry that has significantly lower ethical standards than others. Check facts carefully.

I am currently writing a paper on robots in the pharmacy setting. I was wondering what the average costs were for the robots and costs on fixing the robots, if needed. I am unable to find this information online.

Also, what is the training on the robots when you purchase one in your facility? I’m guessing it is just on the job training?

I have worked with all of the systems and currently have Baker Cells, Automed Quick Fills and Quickfill Plus, ScriptPro, and old Kirby Lesters.
I spent 21 years at Walgreens and was responsible for the deployment of the first 8 Parata RDS machines in 2004 and left them in 2005. Walgreens bought a ton of these machines and people were not happy with them. These older models had their issues: downtime, high maintenance, moisture, etc. I have not seen the new Parata Max but I am willing to evaluate it for a high-volume (12K/day) refill center.
The ScriptPro at one of my pharmacies runs well and is rarely down. It does drop a lot of pills and is a bit slow. We were doing almost 2000/day when we put it in and it could not handle the volume. Thank god we opened the Refill Center. However, ScriptPro has some of the best customer service and tech’s in the industry (Ritz-Carlton like).

I worked briefly with the Yuyama while at Walgreens in Chicago and it also had it issues, especially getting new cells in a timely manner and limited holding slots.

I have been negotiating with Kirby Lester to buy some KL30’s and have also looked at their KL60. Does anyone have any feedback from using these?

Yes, I have worked for RiteAid, CVS, Longs, CostCo, Safeway … and have used them all. When you’re behind the counter wiping the sweat off your brow, you don’t sense the speed different between any of the machines.

But if you go down with a robot and are doing 2000 … you quickly wish that you should have gone to Truck Driving School. So, to me the most important quality is “high availability” and for this I give the award to ScriptPro. And I agree with Jorge, ScriptPro service is #1 of them ALL.

I like how company reps come on here to try and defend a system that doesn’t work. If they would put half the effort into resolving their issues as they do shoveling their bullshit, perhaps we would all have a decent system to work with. What do you take us for, idiots? We can pick you out of the crowd.

If people were smart enough to indicate which system they are unhappy with when venting their bitterness, it might actually be perceived as a contribution to the thread instead of just another troll who needs a detoxing from handling pills by hand all day.

Parata – Pros: Very fast, caps bottles
Cons: serious complaints from actual users – the dumping of the all the drugs in the middle of the machine-true- verified by two separate users.
Blows pill dust- true, but reported to be fixed in new models and user said only bad if standing directly next to the filter.

Script-pro- Have actually used –
Pro: Very easy to verify right at the machine, Good customer service
Con: slow. Does drop some pills here and there in the machine and hard to reach crevices. The model I used also requied vials be loaded in specific way. When down, the machine locks the doors preventing you from getting to the drugs.

Now I’m attempting to get info on the innovation robotx and kirbly lester kl60. So far I found

Kl60- note all info from short term users (about a few months so ploblems may yet surface)

Pro: Small size, If needed, able to rip out the dispensers at virtually anytime. Supposedly more accuarate counts. Can dump vials in.
Con: Doesn’t hold much medication. Also drops a few pills here and there.

Looking into automation for our pharmacy it came down to ScriptPro vs ParataMax. We are a busy store. Took us a long time to make a decision. Both machines cost the same. Parata is faster and it caps. However, ScriptPro sells on service/reliablity/performance. Looking at the big picture. ScriptPro performce better overall. Customer service is 24/7. No down time or resolved within 5 – 10 min. Tech support are experts on the machine so everything is resolved on the spot. Had some inital problems with set up / installation, but once installed smooth sailing. Have ScriptPro for 6 months. Very happy with our descision. Handles 400/per day easy.

I have read all of the comments here. We have had a RDS from Parata for 6 years and while there have been a few challenges, we have been very pleased with the RDS. We found it was useful to have people who have bought into the technology working here. One of the key ingredients to having a robot is to keep it clean. Our downtime is les then 24 hours a year. We are now looking at a new pharmacy to add to our growing business and are having a hard time choosing between an RxMedic or a Parata MAX. Shame they won’t let us get a used RDS as we would buy one in a second. If robotics are not working for you it might not be the robots fault. Just saying.
Charles Greene
IS Manager

Beware, more important become informed. Your life may depend on it.
If any of your staff have developed autoimmune diseases, COPD, cancers, or any other strange unexplained illnesses … contact NIOSH immediately or me, and I will get you in contact.

I can tell you, if you’re a slow pharmacy, processing less than 200 scripts a day; you don’t need full automation. Unless you have extra money to throw away and just like to have that Royal Royce sitting in the driveway to show off to the neighbors. You can outwork these machines and will spend a lot of time waiting for these things to deliver your script to you. A better choice for you would be something that doesn’t bottle, label and/or cap. A unit that just counts or a tabletop counting unit.

Anything over 50-75 drugs in these machines is a waste of space. How many high runners do you actually have? If you’re putting 100+ drugs in these machines, several will go unused and expire before you ever even empty the bin.

So you process over 200 scripts a day and have weighed the options and decided to go with full automation. Hopefully you have someone on staff that is technical. And hopefully you have several people on staff that are technical. These machines need consist attention, not just attention when your technical staff member is working. Vials hang up, machines miscount (yes accuracy of these machines refers to counting the correct drug, not the correct amount), computer errors occur, hardware errors occur, and a host of other problems. These machines need to be filled during the day also, as drugs and vials run out, not just once a day, as some would have you think. These machines become a burden on some. The best pharmacies that I have seen use these machines has a dedicated person working with these machines EVERY day. Does that save you from hiring someone else? Maybe, if you have the staff now. These are not machines you can just setup and ignore and have them fill your scripts. You need staff members that can do a little more than just count by 5’s. They need to be willing and able to learn and grasp the functions of these machines. Otherwise you just wasted your money. What? You don’t need to know that much about it cause you purchased a service contract? Well did that contract state someone would be there within 24 hours? If not, you could be waiting days. In the meantime, those hours and days of downtime leave you scrambling to get pills out of a non-working machine. The best pharmacies have staff that can fix minor problems. Does your staff have time to do that on Tuesday after a major Monday holiday?

Full automation is something to really ponder and think about. Unless you and your staff are willing and able to change your workflow to revolve around these machines, they are a waste of money. If you are willing and able to change your workflow and have a dedicated semi technical staff member, they can be a benefit to some.

BTW, I use to work for one of these companies. I installed and trained staff. I doesn’t really matter what company, as they are all basically the same. Unless you are willing to change and work around these machines, none will benefit you.

They should have an angry pharmacist iPad or iTampon app. It worked for angry birds why not pharmacists? It could allow the player to be behind a pharmacy counter, flipping pills at annoying customers.

What kind of incompetent marketing team comes up with “enter a chance to win”… lol

I design pharmacies for a living and am independent from all the equipment and fixture suppliers out there, so my work is based on what is best for the pharmacist client, not whats best for my boss’s monthly sales figures. Being so, I am not married to any one manufacturer or model, but I must admit, from all aspects, including the simple architectural relevance of the space efficiency of the Yuyama, this machine is far superior to all the others. Single faced loading and dispensing, 12″ total fixture depth, modular expansion, etc etc. All of my clients that have gone with this machine love this system and it’s reliability. And from our standpoint, when a client is paying premium $$ for their space, a unit that requires as little floor space as the Yuyama does cannot be beat.

For those considering technology for their pharmacies, I would strongly suggest contacting AutoMed. They have three main products they sell to tailor to your needs. The new FastFill 54 (semi-automated and perfect for top 54 fast moving drugs, very reasonable investment and can connect a second and third machine to same computer) FastFill 120 (fully automated) and the FastFill 220 (fully automated) Very reliable machines, quite and FAST!

Parata – no. Clearly designed by an engineer, not a pharmacist. Anyone who puts an air compressor near tablets is a fool. Plus, it’s noisy! Requires frequent bottle filling multiple times daily.

Yuyama – amazing, big, costly, but amazing. So nice to turn around from the filling counter to an EV-220 or EV-120 and see a labeled bottle hanging there waiting for you to grab, cap, scan out, walk to the patient and sell. So easy. It knows not to recount reprocessed Rxs or changed Rxs later in the filling process. Once a day fill the bottles, 2-3 times per week fill your cells. Unfortunately 20-dram is your smallest option. The smaller EV-54 is also great, but is like a newer/fancier Baker cell. Requires scanning a barcode on the leaflet or bottle, push the tab/spout on the cell, cap, scan out, sell to patient. All models require a new cell ordered from the company for most any NDC# change 🙁

Baker cell – so low maintenance but so, so old…

ScriptPro – amazing, made here in my hometown, actually. I worked for them for awhile before selling out to a chain pharmacy. They often want busy, established, independent pharmacies as their beta test sites. Investigate this.

I find Phil’s comment fairly shocking on several levels. While it would be a very SAD event which would have had plenty of civil consequences … which I would have be published with fairly pronounced visibility. FDA requires 100% reporting of health injuries for medical devices, is called a FDA Maude Report … and there is not one on the FDA Maude database so there is some question to its authenticity.

Like Management Consultant (above), I too have been to the ScriptPro Kansas City headquarters and manufacturing facilites … and they are 100% top shelf. Mr. Mike Coughlin, CEO is a engineer by trade and not a marketing guy turned CEO.

So for the moment, I’ll pass on this posting unless Philp (nametakenoff) returns with more into.

Drug Chains and Hospitals are my clients and have done many “product evaluations”. I’ve been to the ScriptPro manufacturing facility in Kansas. It’s a clean room plant and the manufacturing campus is very modern and definately built in the last 20 yrs. So, your Asbestos comment is not true.

I’ve also been in many ISO9000 certified plants … ScriptPro is representive of that standard,but I don’t know if they actually have the certification.

I’m a Float Tech for a big chain. We love our ScriptPro’s and have about 700. We have some Parata from an acquisition and they are also in some state of repair. When they are running, we alway have 4-5 cells out of commission for calibration issues.

Nothing worse when being highly AUTOMATED, and being DOWN. Its worse than not being automated at all.

Statistically speaking, Mesothelioma or other asbestos related claims are rare enough these days that any civil action would have been swept so far away from public eye that you can be guaranteed you’d never hear about it.

We’ve used a Kirby Lester KL60 since 8/2010. It’sbmade By Yuyama and outfitted with KL’s software. It worked great for a good 5 years. After that we became more reliant in the service contract (which was approaching $10k/yr) and for my money, the ROi was going down the crapper. Most times we had to have a tech drive from Dallas to North Houston to look at it. They were always kind enough to show me what they did.
So………this was the 1st year we operated without a service contract and the computer took a dump. My it lady worked well with KL getting it fixed. They frown at using the cheap Chinese vials and will void a warranty if they know you use them. Sad part is my dial calipers told the story between the cheapies and a Rexam and the tolerances are +\- .001” of an inch. So we use the cheapie’s and save what amounts to a monthly car note.

The best part……..Not one brand discussed here has any resale value unless the manufacturer gets involved in a “refurb” and delivery process. So 6 more week and I’ll have saved $8500 the 1st year without a safety net. For the next year, I bought a working KL60 that’s 2 yrs younger than mine, that I plan to use as a parts donor if/when needed and my it lady can handle any possible computer problem. The kick in the bits?????? The spare KL60 cost me $4k. I paid $70 turnkey plus a $400/mo service contract. These days while the machine has evolved into being more vial friendly, it wiill set you back $120k over 5 years.’

A local friendly competitor has a Sp200 and I swear it’s so damn big you think you’re on a NASA tour in the mid 60’s.