As my name suggests, I'm quite the novice when it comes to all things audio.....

Yesterday, I went to futureshop to see about getting a HTIB for my 2 year old sony xbr4 and my recently purchased PS3.

I never in my life purchased a speaker, never was a big music person, and always settled for the built-in tv speakers...

Long story short, I ended up taking the Bose Cinemate Series ll , with the help of a salesman who highly recommended it. Bose also had a fancy display set-up for it, and the other brands did not ... I think this helped influence my decision in retrospect - giving me the impression that it was better.

Now, please understand, it's hard for me to distinguish quality - certainly, my initial reaction of the system is that it's far superior to what I had before it - ie: nothing! My gut is telling me that this is system is overpriced at 599....

As for the room it's in, it's around 13 x 15 in an upper unit of a duplex, with my sister and her family living below me... There is carpet, which absorbs some noise I think ... but generally, I can't have a system that will shake the entire building ... but I want one powerful enough that I can crank up on occasion, and be able to perform well even if the volume is not full blast.

Normally, I research and then buy, this time my impulse got the best of me...

If you believe there is a better bang for my buck out there, given my needs... your help would be great.

Yesterday, I went to futureshop to see about getting a HTIB for my 2 year old sony xbr4 and my recently purchased PS3.

Long story short, I ended up taking the Bose Cinemate Series ll , with the help of a salesman who highly recommended it. Bose also had a fancy display set-up for it, and the other brands did not ... I think this helped influence my decision in retrospect - giving me the impression that it was better.

. . . it's far superior to what I had before it - ie: nothing! My gut is telling me that this is system is overpriced at $599....

As for the room it's in, it's around 13 x 15 in an upper unit of a duplex, with my sister and her family living below me... There is carpet, which absorbs some noise I think ... but generally, I can't have a system that will shake the entire building ... but I want one powerful enough that I can crank up on occasion, and be able to perform well even if the volume is not full blast.

Normally, I research and then buy, this time my impulse got the best of me...

If you believe there is a better bang for my buck out there, given my needs... you're help would be great.

AD,

Welcome to the forum!

You are definitely self aware, if not experienced as an audio consumer.

You are exactly right on your points above;
a) You helped pay for the fancy display, and received the impression of quality instead of actual audio quality in return!

c) Impulse did get the better of you and is a killer for a purchase with so many better marketplace options.

If you can return it either without or with an acceptable re-stocking fee, I would do so and start the process over--Research, Decide, then Buy like you siad you normally do!

Why not keep the Bose? Here are some facts:
1) For $600, you got a mediocre 2.1 system, but that same $600 can buy a much more capable 2.1 system.
A truely "capable" 2.1 system (receiver, 2 speakers and subwoofer) is a great way to start your audio journey.

2) The Bose speakers have 2" drivers--those are toys. Instead, look for speakers with at least 4" drivers, as a very minimum, to be able to cover enough low frequency to meet the subwoofer's high frequency and not leave a gap in the sound reproduction.

3) The Bose sub has only a 5" driver, this is not an actual subwoofer, it also is a toy--many regular speakers have 5.25" drivers.

This forum, and others like it, is a great place to read up on available equipment options and solicit advice on how to best spend your $600.

The example system also has growth potential, if you want to expand at some future point into a 5.1 home theater system, it can. The Bose does not have that potential, you would have to replace it!

The example system would blow the Bose Cinemate away, and I am not saying it is a be-all, end-all system in your price range--just one I threw together from previous forum reading and a bit of internet searching!

The better puchase would have the Onkyo HT-S6200 where you can get the 7.1 htib which will yeild amazing sound must better than the bose. You can even just run it as a 3.1 set-up with the front left and right, center.

If you just want a 2.1 or 3.1 speaker set-up where you don't have to run wires to the rear of the room let us know

I'm not sure if this will change your opinion or not, but the cnet link you provided is not the same model that I purchased. The starting price for the model I purchased is equivalent to the price I paid ($599).

If you can return it either without or with an acceptable re-stocking fee, I would do so and start the process over--Research, Decide, then Buy like you siad you normally do!

Yes, I can return for a full refund for up-to 30 days... It's normally not my thing to buy and return, but like I said, I normally don't buy on impulse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XEagleDriver

3) The Bose sub has only a 5" driver, this is not an actual subwoofer, it also is a toy--many regular speakers have 5.25" drivers.

In the cnet link you provided, they provide the size of the drivers, which are 2"... however, the accurate cnet link of the model I purchased, they do not indicate driver size. Do you think my speakers are the same size (2") / and model?

Thanks! ... Ok, so I am looking at the PSB b15 speakers, from the cnet link that you have provided, the speaker drivers are a 1/4 inch bigger ... is this what your comparing? Essentially, my question is, what do I look for when comparing speakers / subs? Driver size?

Quote:

Originally Posted by XEagleDriver

The example system also has growth potential, if you want to expand at some future point into a 5.1 home theater system, it can. The Bose does not have that potential, you would have to replace it!

The example system would blow the Bose Cinemate away, and I am not saying it is a be-all, end-all system in your price range--just one I threw together from previous forum reading and a bit of internet searching!

You're absolutely right... Down the road, if I move into a house, I can upgrade into a 5.1. Right now, I think a 2.1 is what I should start with.

My question: What do I look for in a receiver to determine the extent of its ability to "expand"... Meaning, if I purchase the one that you suggested, what are my limitations? Essentially, what distinguishes a 200 dollar receiver vs 500+? Lastly, would a 200 dollar receiver compromise the performance of the speakers? Or would I be getting more "juice" out of my speakers by using a more expensive receiver?

Quote:

Originally Posted by XEagleDriver

Good Luck,
XEagleDriver

Thanks again... I have to admit, I am a bit intimidated, and all I really want is a quality system for my money... There's so many options and models out there! I do want to be careful and make the smart purchase - hopefully that can happen sooner than later!

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyrob425

The better puchase would have the Onkyo HT-S6200 where you can get the 7.1 htib which will yeild amazing sound must better than the bose. You can even just run it as a 3.1 set-up with the front left and right, center.

If you just want a 2.1 or 3.1 speaker set-up where you don't have to run wires to the rear of the room let us know

Thanks... I think the best scenario would be to start with a 2.1 or 3.1 and then in time expand. Right now the room I'm using is not ideal for surround sound, but I don't expect to live hear forever... with that said, would it be smart to buy a 7.1 and only use 2 or 3 speakers... and eventually set-up the others when I'm ready?

One last thing, the salesman at the store where I bought the Bose said that the great thing about the system is that if I want to listen to it not that loud, the sound quality will still be amazing.

Where as, some of 5.1 or 7.1 systems Sony's or what not we were looking at in the store will sound less clear when the volume is below a certain point.

Is there any truth to this?

Nope no truth to it

Sony isn't that well known for home theaters. You want a real home theater
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Here is the problem with Bose. No HDMI support, No Blu-ray audio support, Doesn't handle the lastest Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA HD audio. Not real support for additional inputs.

You want a good sounding HTIB with support of all the lastest features need so you won't have to upgrade during the line.
Denon DHT-590ba (probably the best sounding)
Onkyo HT-S6200
Onkyo HT-S5300

The reciever really doesn't mean too much an in that case the bose products as far as recievers are POS. There is a reason why bose doesn't list the specs of their units
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Polk RM6750 5.1 kit ($235 w/shipping from Newegg) and Onkyo TX-SR507 ($310 w/shipping from newegg) reciever would sound much better than the Bose And be set-up you will not have to upgrade for awhile

I'm not sure if this will change your opinion or not, but the cnet link you provided is not the same model that I purchased. The starting price for the model I purchased is equivalent to the price I paid ($599).

My bad, glad you were not overcharged for what you bought

Quote:

Has your opinion changed with the actual model that I purchased?

Unfortunately no, due to the other reasons stated on the quality and limitations to the design of this Bose product.

Quote:

Yes, I can return for a full refund for up-to 30 days... It's normally not my thing to buy and return, but like I said, I normally don't buy on impulse.

Glad you have the option and I understand sticking to your decisions in most circumstances. Your money and your call on the best course of action.

Quote:

In the cnet link you provided, they provide the size of the drivers, which are 2"... however, the accurate cnet link of the model I purchased, they do not indicate driver size. Do you think my speakers are the same size (2") / and model?

Yes, according to Crutchfield's web site the specs on the correct Bose system, it still has only 2" drivers and a 5" subwoofer.

Ok, so I am looking at the PSB b15 speakers, from the cnet link that you have provided, the speaker drivers are a 1/4 inch bigger ... is this what your comparing? Essentially, my question is, what do I look for when comparing speakers / subs? Driver size?

Quite a few things actually.If available, listening to them with material I am familiar with is #1 by far (but not always possible).
So I also use; manufacturer reputation, driver size and quality, professional and user reviews, testing results (frequency response curves), etc.

With that said, ensure you are comparing apples to apples, i.e. the 5.25" PSB speaker is not 1/4" greater than the Bose, but 3 1/4" greater than the 2" Bose speaker--a very significant difference! Likewise, for the subwoofer, the comparison is the 10" Dayton compared to the 5" Bose (also a very significant 5" difference).

Quote:

You're absolutely right... Down the road, if I move into a house, I can upgrade into a 5.1. Right now, I think a 2.1 is what I should start with.

I agree, concentrate on getting quality 2.1 or 3.1 components now, but if you play your cards right, these components can stay in your system even if you grow it sometime in the future.

For example, the PSB B-15s can be excellent Front L & R speakers now (when paired with a good subwoofer). But,should you expand in the future, the B-15s can be moved to be surround speakers in a 5.1 system by purchasing even more capable front speakers, such as T-45 or T-55 tower speakers. This migration is not possible with the Bose system.

Quote:

My questions:
1) What do I look for in a receiver to determine the extent of its ability to "expand"...
2) Meaning, if I purchase the one that you suggested, what are my limitations? Essentially,
3) what distinguishes a 200 dollar receiver vs 500+?
4) Lastly, would a 200 dollar receiver compromise the performance of the speakers? Or would I be getting more "juice" out of my speakers by using a more expensive receiver?

All good questions, none with exact and complete answers--but here I go.
1) It should have current CODECs (i.e. new Bluray audio for example), ample # of relevant inputs (HDMI for example) to your needs now and maybe one or two extra (for an additional game system), pre-amp outputs are very useful to add external (more powerful) amps later on. That last feature normally is found a few rungs up the ladder of available receivers--probably not in your stated budget ATT.
2) No pre-amp outputs, limited HDMI connnections.
3) See answer #1, and compare two of your choice online
4) No, normally only more expensive/exotic speakers are "difficult" to drive and might require more power. If you stick with speakers that are 6-8 ohms and have a sensitivity rating of ~87 dB or more you will be OK.

Quote:

Thanks again... I have to admit, I am a bit intimidated, and all I really want is a quality system for my money... There's so many options and models out there! I do want to be careful and make the smart purchase - hopefully that can happen sooner than later!

I hear you, felt the same way when I started a few years back. In my book, dump the Bose and buy components that will be a solid 2.1 now and a good foundation for future 3.1, 5.1, etc. is the most cost effective way to go.

FWIW, I am not a big HTIB fan because although the entry price is low enough, I find the speaker quality is generally poor (partly because they provide so many of them up front).

Quote:

Thanks... I think the best scenario would be to start with a 2.1 or 3.1 and then in time expand. Right now the room I'm using is not ideal for surround sound, but I don't expect to live hear forever... with that said, would it be smart to buy a 7.1 and only use 2 or 3 speakers... and eventually set-up the others when I'm ready?

To your first point, I agree with you--quality 2.1 now and build when your interest or living conditions dictate.

On the second point, NO, why waste money on stuff you will not use at the expense of quality on the items you will use now! -- instead, get much BETTER 2.1 speakers now, you will not regret it.

Does this receiver have a stereo 2.1 mode where it'll output everything to the left/right channels and the low frequency on the subwoofer?

I want to go this route with a 2.1 but don't want to be missing pieces of audio by only have two front speakers and not 5.

I was thinking of going this route with one of Yamaha's highest end receivers and then put together a complete Soavo system piece by piece. I just want the receiver to have the capability to do 2.1, 3.1, and 5.1 modes as my system expands.

I agree with a lot of what XEagleDriver is saying, but I have another suggestion.

Receiver technology progresses very quickly. Advancements are being made in calibration programs (Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO, etc) all of the time. Brand new technologies such as 3D are on the horizon for the near future. It sounds like you aren't going to be moving to a surround setup anytime soon. I wouldn't worry too much about having the most "up-to-date" receiver since all you'll be running is 2.1 or possibly 3.1. Any "bleeding edge" receiver you buy now will be obsolete in a few years when you move on and are able to go with surround sound. Get a solid receiver and spend the rest on the speakers. Quality speakers should make a bigger difference in sound quality than a pricier receiver. To be fair, EagleDriver is recommending quality speakers as well - I'd just prioritize them far above the receiver in your particular situation.

I agree with a lot of what XEagleDriver is saying, but I have another suggestion.

Receiver technology progresses very quickly. Advancements are being made in calibration programs (Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO, etc) all of the time. Brand new technologies such as 3D are on the horizon for the near future. It sounds like you aren't going to be moving to a surround setup anytime soon. I wouldn't worry too much about having the most "up-to-date" receiver since all you'll be running is 2.1 or possibly 3.1. Any "bleeding edge" receiver you buy now will be obsolete in a few years when you move on and are able to go with surround sound. Get a solid receiver and spend the rest on the speakers. Quality speakers should make a bigger difference in sound quality than a pricier receiver. To be fair, EagleDriver is recommending quality speakers as well - I'd just prioritize them far above the receiver in your particular situation.

You guys don't think he should go with one of the newer HDMI 1.4 compatible receivers? The brand-spanking-new Onkyo TX-SR308 is only $250. It is not very powerful at 60w per channel, but paired with nice bookshelf speakers and a powered sub it would be more than enough. The key is it will allow for 3D Blu-Ray support, which I personally would definitely be looking for at this point just in case.

At any rate...to the OP, I would return those Bose ASAP and get yourself back to a starting point. The Bose is definitely not the way to go. Once you start reading more about it, there are so many other options out there for that money which are superior. You could even look into a super-simple setup like a ZVOX surround bar or base if you wanted to go the clutter-free route. You'll still rock the Bose even with that.

You guys don't think he should go with one of the newer HDMI 1.4 compatible receivers? The brand-spanking-new Onkyo TX-SR308 is only $250. It is not very powerful at 60w per channel, but paired with nice bookshelf speakers and a powered sub it would be more than enough. The key is it will allow for 3D Blu-Ray support, which I personally would definitely be looking for at this point just in case.

You are giving up great features like Audyssey 2EQ with the TX-sr308. Person Should spend the extra $50 for the TX-SR507

AudioDummy - Don't sweat it. IMO the Cinemate Series II (yes the $599 one) is one hell of a 2.1 system that pumps out some serious sound. It is simple and easy to use also. Yes I have it and Yes I love it!!!!

AudioDummy - Don't sweat it. IMO the Cinemate Series II (yes the $599 one) is one hell of a 2.1 system that pumps out some serious sound. It is simple and easy to use also. Yes I have it and Yes I love it!!!!

Guess you have to actually 'own' one of these to appreciate Bose...

I had the Cinemate Series II in my house for a bit to try out and I have to say I was very happy with the sound and the overall set-up of the system.
For some one looking for an easy simple 2.1 system it can be a good choice.

"AudioDummy" be aware that many on this forum like to Bose bash and most of the time the bashers have not even tried out the Bose system they are bashing.

Since you bought the CineMate Im guessin your looking for a simple 2.1 system, if you dont keep the Bose perhaps you might want to check out some of the soundbars that offer the same ease of set-up with out running speakers all around the house.

The Vizio soundbar with the wireless sub and the Sony CT-100 and Sony CT-500 are some very good options.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtommers

Yes, people who have never heard anything better appreciate Bose. They are, after all, slightly better than the speakers built into most low end TVs.

Sorry to bum you out but I have owned many very nice systems over the years, worked as a professional musician for most of my adult life, been a soundman and worked in recording studios,,, meaning I have heard and worked with just about every brand of gear there is and I appreciate Bose.

AudioDummy:
Did you keep the CineMate Series II? How do you like it; or did you return it and go bigger?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

After reading most of the posts here, I think some of you are missing the point. I'm in the same boat looking for a decent sound without having to string 50 feet of speaker wire and crowding my living room with speakers.

About 10-years ago I bought a fairly decent system for about $2500. Sony receiver (top of the line at the time) and a JBL Northridge N21 package (5.1). It was (and still is) a great system that produces amazing surround sound. I'm sure some will disagree, but for my use it was good for getting the surround experience from the occasional movie and listening to music.

Then I had a kid and all hell broke loose. He managed to break two of the satellite speakers after using the stand to help stand himself up. So I went down to 3.1. I found I was using my receiver less and less because I wasn't watching a lot of movies and listening to music. I finally just decided to pack it all up and put it storage. Now, with I'm sure a lot of you, the plasma or LCD is becoming the main output for sound. And we all know how crappy those speakers are.

So now I'm 'speakerless' and last night went to Costco and picked up the Cinemate Series I (mistake by the way) -- it has to go back because it lacks the optical input that my plasma requires (RCA inputs only). I was very pleased with the demo unit they had hooked up and I think for the space and money I want to spend, the Cinemate Series II will be perfect.

That's the point. Sure, you could spend the same amount of money and more and go for the full surround experience, but if you live in a condo (like me), that might not be the right route to go. Who really needs a receiver these days? With iPods and radio broadcast through cable boxes and next door neighbours only separated by a foot of concrete, I have less reason to buy a full home theatre system. Maybe if I had a dedicated home theatre room in the basement of a house, it would be more feasible.

To 'conclude' my pov, if you've stumbled on this page like me looking for answers on the Bose Cinemate Series II, my opinion (and that's all it is, my opinion) I think it's a great option if you want to bypass the typical receiver/amp hook-up with multiple speakers and want a good sound system for the occasional time you want to pump up the volume.

To 'conclude' my pov, if you've stumbled on this page like me looking for answers on the Bose Cinemate Series II, my opinion (and that's all it is, my opinion) I think it's a great option if you want to bypass the typical receiver/amp hook-up with multiple speakers and want a good sound system for the occasional time you want to pump up the volume.

If you want a simplified solution that doesn't require a separate receiver or amp and you're not concerned with good sound quality, then there are plenty of other HTiB solutions from other brands that will get you as good or better sound quality (hell at least a lot of them don't consist of laughable 2" full-range drivers and a 5.25" woofer Bose amusingly terms a "bass module") for less money.

You'll probably even get better results from a soundbar with one of the wireless 6" 'subs' that come with them.

That's the point. Everyone doesn't need to go out and buy their own $2000 Bose system to know that Bose sells sub-par speakers for heavily inflated prices. It's well documented.

If you're happy with your Bose speakers, great. No one is denying you your right to overpay for poor quality products. But I'm confused as to why the fact that you or anyone else concedes to do so means other people can't, quite rightly, criticize the Bose brand.

To the OP, everyone here is right. Bose doesn't sound bad. Its just that for the same money or less you can get BETTER. Same as Monster cables, no one saying they are BAD cables, just they are not as good as their price tag. They do not magically do anything, neither does Bose. In fact, Bose does use 2" drivers and a very small woofer for bass. Some people like this because it isn't rumble the house, but you can get cheap bookshelf speakers with bigger woofers that beat Bose. No sense in wasting money. There is no sense in buying this system for "simplicity" or "ease" as most every product is as easy or simple to use or set up. Bose limits your options so you can't make it difficult for yourself, but any other receiver can do what it does and much more flexibility.

Sorry to bum you out but I have owned many very nice systems over the years, worked as a professional musician for most of my adult life, been a soundman and worked in recording studios,,, meaning I have heard and worked with just about every brand of gear there is and I appreciate Bose.

Why would it bum me out? Everyone has different experiences when they hear a pair of speakers, and there's no right or wrong. But for me, a $3k Bose system sounds no better than a boombox from the 80's and vastly inferior to a decent $200 pair of bookshelves. Considering that the manufacturing cost of a $3k Bose system is about $100 that makes sense.

Why would it bum me out? Everyone has different experiences when they hear a pair of speakers, and there's no right or wrong. But for me, a $3k Bose system sounds no better than a boombox from the 80's and vastly inferior to a decent $200 pair of bookshelves. Considering that the manufacturing cost of a $3k Bose system is about $100 that makes sense.

I knew I was not really going to bum you out, I was just being a bit of a smartass,,,, I was just posting back to your statement that only people that have not heard or owned better speakers buy Bose,,, I have owned and heard some great systems but still see where Bose has a place and does fill a need.

Is Bose overpriced,, yes and no,,,, as an example,, Bose is perhaps the ONLY company that does not outsource its Customer Support department,,, when you call Bose CS you get an actual english speaking person on the phone that is located in this country and knows about the product, and their CS department is very good at taking care of any problems,,, that of course is part of the Bose pricing,, when you buy the product your not "just" paying for the product itself.

A properly working product that includes a comprehensive manual generally does not need CS calls. I prefer to buy a product where most of the $$$ has gone into the product itself, not marketing and CS.

Good CS only serves to underscore the type of consumer Bose primarily targets: Lazy and uneducated, who would rather just walk into the store without a clue, swallow a salesman's pitch and pay the outlandish price rather than do 3-4 hours of research that would probably net him better gear at better prices. The kind of consumer who will rather dial CS than read through the manual. Heck, if a CS call does not answer Joe Schmoe's question, he just might (God forbid) go on the 'net and find what Bose exactly is.

A properly working product that includes a comprehensive manual generally does not need CS calls. I prefer to buy a product where most of the $$$ has gone into the product itself, not marketing and CS.

Good CS only serves to underscore the type of consumer Bose primarily targets: Lazy and uneducated, who would rather just walk into the store without a clue, swallow a salesman's pitch and pay the outlandish price rather than do 3-4 hours of research that would probably net him better gear at better prices. The kind of consumer who will rather dial CS than read through the manual. Heck, if a CS call does not answer Joe Schmoe's question, he just might (God forbid) go on the 'net and find what Bose exactly is.

Nice Bose bashing rant, but I was not talking about calling Bose's CS to see how to turn on or operate a Bose system,,, I was bringing up the Bose CS subject as it pertains to repairs and getting replacement and warrenty service done.

In the past I have needed repair or warrenty service on major audio brand products I have purchased, with Bose you dont need to take Indian language lessons to understand what their CS agents are saying,,,, with almost all the other companies your on hold for an hour and then talking with some guy in India that has never even heard of the product your calling about.

I'm not replying to bash or defend Bose although I do think they're pricey for what you get but since other companies CS were brought up I recently called Onkyo, Pioneer, and Samsung and was speaking with someone basically right after navigating the initial menu and if they weren't American they sure fooled me, and I've certainly had plenty of experience with the type of CS you are talking about but they were not electronics related except for Dell for my wife's PC, never again from them.

Is Bose overpriced,, yes and no,,,, as an example,, Bose is perhaps the ONLY company that does not outsource its Customer Support department,,, when you call Bose CS you get an actual english speaking person on the phone that is located in this country and knows about the product, and their CS department is very good at taking care of any problems,,, that of course is part of the Bose pricing,, when you buy the product your not "just" paying for the product itself.

Bose may be one of the only large electronics companies with USA CS, but that's not saying much because the best bang for the buck with audio is typically found in the smaller outfits that sell directly to the consumer. And these smaller outfits offer US support that I'm sure is vastly superior to the Bose support. Being able to call the president directly on cell phone is not uncommon.

Bose has a great marketing department. Bose has a terrific sales department. They can sell sand to Arabs. It's also the worst speaker in its price point ever made.
But they tell you it's the best, and have a wonderful marketing campaign. They are very smart, create a crappy product, but tell everyone it's the best thing since sliced bread. It's brilliant. If most companies did marketing like Bose, they would be so much better off. Palm could have used their marketing director.