The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.

...children were asked to attend for a short period to receive a cash gift as an encouragement to keep the fast.

Good heavens! Pathetic and treacherous tactics in the name of their "god" where even children are not spared by these hegemonic religious thugs. I feel sorry for these kids that have to suffer hunger by bribery, not to mention the dreadful Ramadan and Muharram (specially Ashara) hallal-o-weens.

Okay, Porus, agreed. But the fact that Muslims are subjugated to sufferings all day long during Ramadan and other "nani/motti raat" and the long tiring innovated prayers of all sorts including the beatings and vigorous self-inflictions while fasting during Moharram are just few of the many unprecedented and inhumane acts religions call for. You see, Muslims think that its all nice and dandy and godly from the outside but reality speaks otherwise where the entire lifestyle changes for just one whole month where problems and inconveniences are much greater. The children also get caught up and focused in these acts and become subservient to what their leaders and forefarthers dictate and thus the cycle continues whilst few emerge out of it with a grain of thought and reason.

Fasting is one of the best rituals introduced by Islam. Fasting keeps one healthy. Not only that imagine the amount of food that will be saved in the world if everyone fasts for few days in a year... Fasting also induces compassion in people.. People who have never seen hunger in their life can never empathize with those who go through it everyday. Today around 80% of people in the world do not have the luxury of two square meals... The remaining 20% waste 80% of food available to them... It is these selfish inconsiderate people who have never gone to sleep on a hungry stomach waste precious food around the globe...

So fasting by no way is a torture... Islam does not impose fasting on people who are sick, travelling etc.. Those who are healthy can definitely fast..

There are some people who never see anything positive in any religion.. According to some others these people are on the right track and will definitely acheive spirituality someday... Those who think that people believing in religion are idiots and need to cover a lot of ground etc. need to rethink...

Fasting is unnecessary, illogical and has absolutely no basis of any enlightenment. It not only suddenly offsets the entire daily routine, but also creates mental stress, weakness and illness from mandatory religious pagan enactments into starvation mode throughout the day. Most people are seen sleeping during the afternoons to accommodate rest and kill time and as soon as they near the opening of fasting, they start gouging on food and drinks like hungry dogs, many eating several times throughout night and early morning to fill their empty stomachs in order to carry them through the day. Muslims already know that it is a temporary religious enactment of starvation since the thought of unavailability of food and drink does not arise. Hence the suppostition and excuses of knowing what fasting in starvation mode is all about is just a silly notion.

In olden days, people were forced and punished into abstinence of food (and occasionally water) as penitence and disobedience towards their masters and idol gods, and as ritual acts of solace when death occurred. Some were punished for few hours while others for longer periods.

Over time and in Islam, people hijacked these customary pagan enactments and made it a mandatory religious reverence in carrying out this ritual from before sunrise till after sunset for 29/30 days long (in most cases the number of days depending upon the sighting of moon at various places on earth – what a joke). It is linked to their supreme one and only idol moon god Hubal (Allah ~ The God). People also fast and beat themselves during Muharram and especially at Ashara with extreme ferocity only to imagine and pretend solace for their beloved dead idols.

Ramadan, like other idiotic religious pagan enactments, is so profoundly revered that it has become one of the mandatory pillars of Islam in the name of their imagined alleged Allah, all in vain.

Well put Danish. while I was growing up, fasting was lauded as a way to cleanse and purify the body,and to create a healthy physical being, blah blah blah.

Well the reality is that fasting throws the body into a slowed metabolic state that uses stored muscle protien to derive energy. Our bodies are programmed to do this during periods of lean times. The muscle breakdown leads to increased serum ketone levels which can be very dangerous for diabetics, cardiac patients, and the immunocompromised to name a few.

Additionally, a complete stoppage of free water causes severe dehydration. At the end of the day, when the fast is broken, the starving then carbo-load and eat way more food that they would have if they had not been fasting. The blood glucose levels peak sharply, leading to massive insulin secretion which promotes fat storage and unstable blood glucose levels.

The dehydration from loss of free water causes energy drops, headaches, fatigue, disrupted cellular metabolism, decreased unrine output, constipation, urinary tract infections - and that's the short list.
Keep this routine up for 30 days, and you have a wonderful recipe for future cardiovascular and metabolic compromise.
While the infirm and young and pregnant are excepted from this medieval practice, the physiological effects of fasting are noticed in every age group.
Particularly alarming is fasting in countries when the median daily temperature is 90 F or more. In the heat, the body will dehydrate and decompensate much faster - a loss of water will only accelerate the process.

No human being should ever fast voluntarily. This is a very dangerous practice that is nothing but an archaic trial that was dreamt up eons ago.

Fasting is unnecessary, illogical and has absolutely no basis of any enlightenment.

You are talking as if you have already achieved lot of enlightenment... So much that you are not able to read the posts by others before commenting on them... Maybe there is a strong beam of light that is getting reflected from your monitor blinding your visison whenever you visit this site... I think you should donate some of your enlightenment to these energy companies.. They are the ones who will really appreciate your worth and even pay you for it... I am surprised about one thing though... When you have stopped being a muslim and you hate Islam so much why do you come and visit this site?? Or maybe enlightened people in your so called spiritual world love to ridicule others in every possible way however cheap it may be...

Danish makes a very good point - fasting is really not logical, and it really does have detrimental effects of the body.
As for his views, the entire planet is welcome to join this forum. While Danish's views may not be agreeable to some, his/her views do make for some thought and deliberation.

I never recommended fasting to any of my patients, in fact, I've often advised against it.
To get in touch with spirituality and one's self, etc. it is not necessary to starve yourself for 30 days in a year, or even one day.

The ill-effects of binging after a day of fasting are quite severe. Observe the bohras who have become sluggish, overweight, out-of-shape, and full of systemic cardiovascular and endocrine diseases. I agree that while While fasting alone will not cause disease, the process is very dangerous to the body and will exert its influence down the road.

Aareef, all I have to say is that if you are concerned and cornered about anything I've said, then please rebuttal the subject I've touched upon by asking questions or giving your own justifications. No need to get personal. I am only criticising a belief system and hesitate/refrain from becoming personal. I hope we can have a fruitful discussion. Thanks.

Your posts are pretty acidic when it comes to criticizing Islam. You leave no stone unturned to insult the feelings of people who still have faith in this religion... And this has nothing to do with spiruality or self realization. It just brings out the sheer hatred you have inside your heart for this religion... I think the first principle of free thinkers is to live and let others live with their beliefs and thoughts...

You visit a Islamic site, you call Islam a pagan ritual, haj a farce, namaz a waste of time and fasting a torture... After that you expect to have a very friendly discussion... This sounds ridiculously funny to me.

Anyways, the best way to keep things fruitful between us is to ignore you completely which I am going to do from now on...

I agree with Arif. You do need to tone down your criticism. Questioning a belief system is one thing and going ballistic against it all the time is quite another. Speaking of myself, I too am guilty of being critical of Islam and religion and all the rest, but when everything is said and done, I'm still culturally a Muslim and a Dawoodi bohra and quite proud of my heritage.

People have a reason in believing in thing they do. It's mainly a matter of consciousness, as their consciousness evolves - with time, education, awareness, and good (ehm!) debate - they begin to shed irrational, mythical beliefs and move on to rational and trans-rational view of things.

However, I do commend your attitude about not getting personal in the discussions. Keep it up.

Actually it doesn't matter if fasting, namaz, Hajj is illogical. It is a commandment of Allah. A believer needs to follow it without worrying about the approval of the logical or the scientific community. We should stop trying to justify acts of faith as acts in line with science and logic. There is no need to justify fasting as being good for the body. It doesn't need to be. The quran doesn't advise fasting because it is good for the body.

These are acts to differentiate the believer from the non-believer, plain and simple.

Well said. Actually I am thinking the same. That is why I have written in my post that I am going to ignore the likes of Danish from now on... As it makes no sense discussing religion with these people...

Infact, the quran is pretty clear in its advise. One is not required to fast if one is not healthy. What does that imply? That fasting is good for the body? No.

Obviously a person visiting a doctor is sick and the doctor should be advising them not to fast, in line with the quran. Bohras being out of shape has nothing to do with fasting and everything to do with being a bohra.

Actually this is what I have mentioned in my post in this thread... Here is my qoute which is exactly what you are saying...

Islam does not impose fasting on people who are sick, travelling etc.. Those who are healthy can definitely fast..

BTW: If you observe carefully the people who are criticizing fasting have nothing to do with ramdaan... They are doing it just for the heck of it... So as you said lets stop justifying it because it is not going to make any sense to them...

Originally posted by Above Average Bohra:
Infact, the quran is pretty clear in its advise. One is not required to fast if one is not healthy. What does that imply?

Obviously a person visiting a doctor is sick and the doctor should be advising them not to fast, in line with the quran. Bohras being out of shape has nothing to do with fasting and everything to do with being a bohra.

It simply implies that it doesn’t take a rocket scientist or a supernatural deity to figure that one out, let alone the Quran. Even a layman would know that. In any case, fasting being mandatory for one whole month out of each year is nothing more than an excuse and an unnecessary and illogical act to succumb and submit people into “punishment” in the name of an Allah. Ramadan, Muharram, Haj, Salaat, etc. are acts of jahiliya incorporated into religion.

Reading your posts gives me a very clear idea of jahiliya. When your bottom burns in hell fire you will figure out the true nature of punishment. Ramadan, Muharram, Hajj and Salaat are blessings from Allah that a jaahil wouldn't understand. Only a spiritually enlightened person can understand their value.

Originally posted by Above Average Bohra:When your bottom burns in hell fire you will figure out the true nature of punishment.

Your bottom burning experiences must have shaken up the mountains to explode in what is called volcanoes. :p Would you be kind enough to provide evidence of such ungodly "bottom-burning in hell fire" tragedies? I thought your man-made religious god torments a lot more than that according to your holy book.

Ramadan, Muharram, Hajj and Salaat are blessings from Allah that a jaahil wouldn't understand. Only a spiritually enlightened person can understand their value.

I wholehearted agree with your statement above. You see afterall, it is the jahils who love jahilia and call it blessings (from above).

Originally posted by Above Average Bohra:Nice response. Thanks for proving my point. When you couldn't figure out a good response for 4 sentences from a "jaahil", imagine how much of anything else you've understood.

O you're most welcome .... tit-for-tat. It seems I am getting intentionally dragged into low-esteem and bittery taste, hence I must thwart and wrestle Allah to acclaim superiority.