Really when so many people are acting so desperately, even in violence…ones should try to see beyond that… they should be a reason…

GEt to know the history… and most of us had different history told to us…
Propaganda on both sides…

This link is to the fairest on I found so far… was really interesting to see and it really makes sense…

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2451908450811690589

Watch it, it is eye opening….

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 10:58 pm ET

January 6th, 2009 2250 GMT

Linda,
Thank you for your words of wisdom in previous post. It was very ugly there!!

Name-calling deteriorates the dialogue. Here's to a fresh start.

Professor, keep posting your historical POV. Some may know it, but others here need to see what you have to put out.

There are different perspectives of history of I/P conflict.

Here, ALL points of view need to be posted.

That is what freedom of speech means,

Take it away, flks...

Aleksandar

January 6th, 2009 10:59 pm ET

Pattern of misinformation or disambiguation harassment.

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 10:59 pm ET

Prof. Richard Falk, the UN Special Rapporteur for Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and international law expert at Princeton University, described Israel's siege of Gaza last year as a crime against humanity. “The suggestion that this pattern of conduct is a holocaust-in-the-making represents a rather desperate appeal to the governments of the world and to international public opinion to act urgently to prevent these current genocidal tendencies from culminating in a collective tragedy."

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 11:00 pm ET

Read an alternative POV from an Israeli living in Sderot:

http://www.counterpunch.org/gordon01302008.html

Joan

January 6th, 2009 11:01 pm ET

I don’t get it. Has terrorism ever worked? I don’t know of an example. Why don’t the Palestinians devote their time, energy and money to building up their territory. There are many successful small places: Hong King, Monaco, Singapore etc. Then they would gain world sympathy and support.

Joan

January 6th, 2009 11:02 pm ET

What exactly does Hamas hope to gain? There can be no positive outcome for Gaza. Why risk so many lives? It seems that Hamas only want to destroy the people of Gaza.

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 11:02 pm ET

I am one Jew that represents many more American,world Jews AND Israeli Jews.

Go ahead and check out the IDF youtube POV.

But, please also see Alternative Jewish Points Of View (along with Christians and Muslims and UN Reps), as Dominique suggests:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2451908450811690589

Linda

January 6th, 2009 11:04 pm ET

I am so glad to see this headline! Last night CNN was showing trucks carrying in aide, but did not start a blog about it. I am glad to see something positive!

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 11:10 pm ET

Israel has nothing to gain either, Joan.

Why risk so many lives indeed...on BOTH sides?

Palestinians do not have the money, energy or time to do what you ask.

They are just trying to survive. They are far from enjoying the comfortable first world lifestyle of Israelis.

They have no running water, electricity, etc. They are imprisoned with no openings to allow supplies in and out due to very complicated reasons–not black and whitereasons–as many try to paint the picture.

Joan

January 6th, 2009 11:14 pm ET

I agree that Israel has nothing to gain either and I do sympathize with the Palestinians to a certain extent. I't's just that they have more to lose and they seem to persist with a losing strategy.

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 11:17 pm ET

More alternative JEWISH (and Christian,Muslim, world) points of view:

‘When dealing with oppression , there is no balance.’

‘Criticizing the Israeli government is not anti-semitism, it is humane.’

‘There will be no security for Israel as long as the oppression of Palestinians continues.’

‘It is not in Israel’s interest to continue the occupation’

Linda

January 6th, 2009 11:17 pm ET

American Jew,
I do agree with you that it is very complicated. I do disagree however, with the assessment that the Gazan's do not have electricity. You could clearly see the lights on while the fighting was first going on. Now, that is not to say that they are living it up there. That is EXACTLY why the UN should have done something to help them before now!
You are right when you say that the Palestinians do not have the money, energy or time to do what you ask. That is why there should have been help for them before now, just like so many other parts of the world.

Joan

January 6th, 2009 11:17 pm ET

If they can get weapons, why can't they get more useful things?? Why can't the other Muslim help them survive, instead of propagating violence in their name??

Joan

January 6th, 2009 11:18 pm ET

Sorry, I don't believe 'can't'.I do believe 'won't"

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 11:18 pm ET

Israel, too.

Both sides cannot afford to persist with the losing strategy, I agree.

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 11:22 pm ET

Yes, politics is a funny animal.

The "won't" is on both sides, tho, I think

Joan

January 6th, 2009 11:24 pm ET

I don't particularly support Israel, but why do Syria, AlQuaeda and other countries and groups speak out against Israel rather then helping Palestinians. There is plenty of money in the Middle East. Also, Yassar Arrafat had lots of aid money socked away in Switzerland.

Why aren't the leaders and supporters helping these people.
The UN etc. could help them too, but maybe they should stop provoking violence and start promoting social and economic growth.

Joan

January 6th, 2009 11:26 pm ET

I agree that Israel is also wrong, but they have more power so the Palestinians must change strategy.

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 11:27 pm ET

UN? How do you see the UN provoking violence?

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 11:32 pm ET

My thinking is the one with the most power is the one that needs to take the lead in changing strategy...and yes, strategy must change on both sides.

Both sides are fighting a useless war in every way they are able.

Israel with first world artillery and Gaza with 3rd world artillery/

Awful on both sides, yes.

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 11:36 pm ET

I am wanting to repost this in a more readable fashion.

It bears repeating:

Prof. Richard Falk, the UN Special Rapporteur for Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and international law expert at Princeton University, described Israel’s siege of Gaza last year as a crime against humanity.

“The suggestion that this pattern of conduct is a holocaust-in-the-making represents a rather desperate appeal to the governments of the world and to international public opinion to act urgently to prevent these current genocidal tendencies from culminating in a collective tragedy.”

Very desperate–on both sides!!

Joan

January 6th, 2009 11:40 pm ET

Sorry, I did not mean the UN was provoking violence, I meant the Palestinians.

It seems obviuos that the Palestianians are just pawns in a larger mid-east plot. They are not powerful enough to change the entire middle east. All they can do is opt out and make a life for themselves. Yes, they have issues, but they can't solve them by sacrificing themselves to a useless battle.

Israel should stop the violence but they can't do it alone. Without power, it makes sense for the Palestinins to lead.

Joan

January 6th, 2009 11:42 pm ET

I still can't understand why other mid-east countries do not provide more humanitarian and economic help to Palestinians.

keys

January 6th, 2009 11:46 pm ET

The Palestinians don't have money?

http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3483480,00.html

And that's just government aid, not counting the private donations given by mosques and private "charitable" organizations around the world.

I guess $7.4 billion isn't enough to build their own power plant. they'll just have to keep depending on Israel to provide power cost-free to gaza and then they can cry when israel reacts to attacks from Gaza rocket fire.

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 11:48 pm ET

I agree and disagree with you, Joan.

I think the pawn game works on both sides. We are pawns of our government and the Israel government two.

I think there is so much we don't know, that ALL govts supress. It is not just 'them'–it is 'us' too–all of us.

Mirrors of each other.

That is why I think it is important to look at all points of view–worldwide media, not just fox and cnn.

Lynne

January 6th, 2009 11:52 pm ET

Good evening, AJ,

I see that your posts are as thoughtful as usual, and thanks for the links. Glad you're here –

To be honest, do you think that enough humanian aid in the form of food, water, and med supplies are going to be able to get through to meet the need? In recent months, the intermittent "openings" haven't seemed to allow enough for 1.5M folks. I really don't see that this current effort is really going to help much at all, and smells more of a PR effort to me ....

Linda

January 6th, 2009 11:56 pm ET

Hi Lynne,
Good to see you again.

American Jew

January 6th, 2009 11:57 pm ET

Hi Lynne,
Glad you are here, too.

It seems calmer when we and others like Linda are here. Even if we don't all agree–at least we have dialogue!

I agree. It is a start, but, the "intermittent" openings seem to have created this mess, in part, in my opinion.

Joan

January 6th, 2009 11:58 pm ET

I don't think I am only looking at one point of view. I just think that the Palestinians need to help themselves and stop supporting terrorist groups like Hamas. The Israeli's, Americans, etc. can look after themselves. It's the Palestinians I'm worried about. They aren't hurting me, I just wish they could do more to help themselves. And that means changing their strategy.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 12:00 am ET

Sure, the Palestinians are pawns of their government, but they don't seem to see that.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 12:02 am ET

Hi Linda,

Good to see you too. I'm still reading, though ....

Fatima

January 7th, 2009 12:04 am ET

Pity the children of Gaza!

Linda

January 7th, 2009 12:05 am ET

Pity the children everywhere that are dying, scared, starving, and in deplorable conditions.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 12:06 am ET

No. I think the Palestinian people right now are like desperate caged (literally) animals. Reson is easy for us to discuss here, but not for those people in atrocious living conditions with tons of bombs dropping on them.

Let me ask you this, Joan. What do you think about Israel's present strategy?

How can they change what they are doing to improve the situation?

Fatima

January 7th, 2009 12:09 am ET

I agree Linda.

And most of all, pity those who are taught that hatred is a virtue.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 12:10 am ET

Right on, Linda!

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 12:11 am ET

Joan,

For the life of me, I'm trying to figure out how the Palestinians can help themselves, without outside help. With the blockade in place since Hamas took over, there's no work. No work = no money for agriculture or trade.

Those that oppose Hamas are probably keeping quiet. Hamas effectively eliminated Fatah supporters. If I was the provider for my family, I would probably keep my mouth shut too. Remember Hamas murdering people for being what (Hamas) defined as Israeli spies? More or less reminds me of what my cousins in Germany wrote to my grandmother in the 1930s.

I agree that in order to be taken seriously, the strategy must be changed. But I don't see Hamas as being that intelligent. It took the IRA decades to evolve from a band of para-military thugs to what it is today.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 12:13 am ET

Well, now that everyone has come over to my way of thinking, :) hahahahah, what can we all do to help move the leaders of this WORLD to get off of their behinds, and do something positive?

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 12:14 am ET

Hatred is at work on both sides.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 12:15 am ET

Lynne,
What did your cousins write?

Solomon

January 7th, 2009 12:15 am ET

Lynne.

I agree with you 100%this is just a ploy by Israel. I was watching the security council debate when condoleezza rice in the Middle of her speech said that I have contacted the Israeli prime minister and he assured me that a crossing will be open for humanitarian supplies to the Palestinians.my reaction here we go again .Deception and PR.

but my surprise was when I was listening to the Israeli ambassador,it is if she is repeating the same sentences that Beny and co say on this blog misinformation and Deception they are all reading from the same booklets.and an Arab ambassador was replying to her I thought he stole my Ideas it was realy funny to watch.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 12:17 am ET

A GREAT question, Linda!!

I wish I knew...frustration on all sides with the govts and so-called political world leaders.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 12:17 am ET

I understand that the Palestinians are under pressure now, and have been often. Ther's not much they can do now except stop sending rockets over the border.

Both sides should immediately agree to a ceasfire.

I don't know what Israel can change except to agree to a ceasefire as long as the others desist.

Then, Israel should stop blockades etc., and any offensive movements against their neighbours.

Israel's neighbours do't need ot give them an excuse to attack. If they had no excuse, world opinion would be more against Israel.

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 12:21 am ET

The Palestinians’ economy needs a bailout similar to the United States’, and Palestinian officials have filed requests for relief, which the World Bank and Israel ignored. So do not judge to harshly here…We might be walking in the same pair of shoes when our bailout cries fall-on-deaf-ears.

Now and only now since death of citizens always heights awareness, (no thanks to CNN), the United Nations is, as we type, addressing this tragedy. Why does it take a tragedy for someone to stand-up and make a difference?

What is up with you CNN? Why exclude the above factors from your coverage? You do claim “the truth in news” don’t you?

Joan

January 7th, 2009 12:21 am ET

There are smart, wealthy people in Palestine. Where are they ?? NOw and all these years ?

Joan

January 7th, 2009 12:27 am ET

I agree that the world needs to help the Palestinians, but they need to cooperate. How can we help? Humanitarian aid will get there, but that is only a band-aid.

Hunk

January 7th, 2009 12:28 am ET

Lynne,

The blockade was there not because of Hamas direct action but a tool to get political mean to weaken hamas in favor of even the Satan but if it goes to Fateh then fine ...

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 12:35 am ET

Solomon,

I'm hoping that it is not, but past actions ... you know food has to be running out given the constant fighting.

On another blog, I wrote that I work with a group that rescues sick, abused starving animals, and noted that although I have been bitten a few times, that the animals eventually learn how to trust if shown enough kindness, patience, and understanding. The question was that if animals can do this, would a person not think that the almighty has given humans the same capacity and much more. I don't think that it is a sign of weakness to show compassion. On the contrary, I think that only extraordinarily strong people currently have the capacity to do this.

Funny ... no one responded.

Linda,

As far as what my cousins wrote (I wasn't even a thought in my mama's mind then). The gist of the letters (and I read German, but am in no way fluent) was that economic times were hard, there was little food in the house, and family members could find work only intermittently. The brownshirts were roaming the streets and beating up or murdering folks that did not support AH's bid for power. The intellectuals, priests, pastors, thinking folks that dared to speak out were being carted away for reeducation and not being seen again. There was little you could do to help your neighbors, friends, unless you wanted to be carted away with them, which would leave no one to provide for your family. You spoke in private, but never where you could be overheard, and even then you were afraid that a neighbor, friend, relative would tell the authorities just to get money to buy food. This was all before Kristalnacht happened. My grandmother's cousins were asking the family to send what they could so that they could have enough for a meal a day to share with neighbors.

I really ought to have a serious translation done on these letters. I'm sure that there is a lot more than my meager interpretation. And my family members (aunts and uncles) that spoke German have passed on.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 12:39 am ET

Wow, that is amazing Lynne. That is real first hand info there.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 12:39 am ET

Joan,

According to Palestinian friends of mine here in Tejas, the smart, educated, "thinking", "wealthy" Palestinians are here in the US. They just couldn't provide for their families by remaining in the West Bank or Gaza. Nor did they want their children to have the uncertainty of life.

Which is unfortunate for any future Palestinian state.

barham

January 7th, 2009 12:41 am ET

Very neat, constructive blog discussion, i salute you, American Jew, what PE Obama said? because i couldnt find anything in the news else that he will stay silent till the 20th.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 12:41 am ET

The smart, wealthy people in Palestine do not necessarily have the POWER to 'rock the boat.' They would be harrassed and, as Lynne pointed out, would rather stay safe and provide for family.

It is a real complicated 'balagan' (Hebrew for mess). It is not easy to stand up in protest of wrong-doing, if others do not stand with you.

Harassment comes in many foms.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 12:43 am ET

Yes, Lynne, that is very unfortunate. What do they recommend. I know the Palestinians want to get rid of Israel, but, given that that that won't happen, what do they suggest ?

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 12:47 am ET

Joan, Here is an article from Israeli newspaper, giving a reading f what was going on behind the scenes 6 months ago:

Not all Palestinians want to get rid of Israel. Nahida once told me that everyone at one time lived together and got along. It's just that life was very hard, and radical imams used that to their advantage to "breed" little groups akin to the SLA, etc. here in the US in the 60s. Attracted a lot of "less educated" people who could not find a way out.

The unfortunate thing is that no one sees a way out of the quagmire - at least until all the "radical old timers" die off or until 90%-95% of the population have at least a what we call a high school education. Nahida swears that it is the women that will finally solve the problem. There is a group of us that received our MBAs together – different backgrounds and faiths. She said if we can sit down and share each others' religious holidays and pray together regardless of faith, others should be able to do it. It's just setting the example.

She even suggested withholding basic "manly necessities" until the menfolk complied.

Wise woman 8)

Joan

January 7th, 2009 12:54 am ET

Yes. I know it is hard to stand up in the face of oppression. But have there never been opportunbities? It can't be much safer with this situation. It is a sad statement, but it seems that people, worldwide, can always get together for violence but have trouble getting together for good.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 12:54 am ET

"On another blog, I wrote that I work with a group that rescues sick, abused starving animals, and noted that although I have been bitten a few times, that the animals eventually learn how to trust if shown enough kindness, patience, and understanding. The question was that if animals can do this, would a person not think that the almighty has given humans the same capacity and much more. I don’t think that it is a sign of weakness to show compassion. On the contrary, I think that only extraordinarily strong people currently have the capacity to do this."

GREAT analogy, Lynne!! In my opinion, the Palestinians in Gaza are being expected to live up to an impossible standard.

Honestly, people, wouldn't you react the same in a similar situation??

Joan

January 7th, 2009 12:59 am ET

I agree about 'the impossible standard'. But, what is the alternative? Lynne, I think your friend is a wise woman. AJ, I would not send rockets over the border into Israel becasue I would see it as self-destructiive. Maybe Israel's objective of destroying Hamas capability is the right one?

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:00 am ET

Joan,
This is exactly what I was referring to on your comment about 'wealthy, smart Palestinians':

" The gist of the letters (in 1930s Germany) was that economic times were hard, there was little food in the house, and family members could find work only intermittently. The brownshirts were roaming the streets and beating s far as what my cousins wrote.

The brownshirts were roaming the streets and beating up or murdering folks that did not support AH’s bid for power. The intellectuals, priests, pastors, thinking folks that dared to speak out were being carted away for reeducation and not being seen again.

There was little you could do to help your neighbors, friends, unless you wanted to be carted away with them, which would leave no one to provide for your family. You spoke in private, but never where you could be overheard, and even then you were afraid that a neighbor, friend, relative would tell the authorities just to get money to buy food.

This was all before Kristalnacht happened. My grandmother’s cousins were asking the family to send what they could so that they could have enough for a meal a day to share with neighbors..."

Thanks, Lynne, for your insights!

Joan

January 7th, 2009 1:00 am ET

It seems Hamas is destroying Gaza more so than Israel.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 1:01 am ET

American Jew,
you wrote:
Honestly, people, wouldn’t you react the same in a similar situation??

That is exactly the point that I have been trying to make. We all live in different countries than the current conflict, so WE don't know the truth of what is actually happening, nor do we know what it is like to live in those conditions.
The American Citizens do not live in such fear of rockets, lack of clean water, and on and on. We are coming from an entirely different place, mentally, than where this is actually happening. We do not understand any of these people 100%, on either side.

Hunk

January 7th, 2009 1:07 am ET

Lynne,

"The unfortunate thing is that no one sees a way out of the quagmire — at least until all the “radical old timers” die off or until 90%-95% of the population have at least a what we call a high school education."

The Palestinians have the highest rate of education among all Arabs , they are our best ... but still seeing your point of view that there ever be a solution to this on my life time .... i still hope and press for it ... but this is really an agony.

The world is looming on a financial crises and a deep recession and this will effect the life of the Palestinians.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 1:07 am ET

I agree that we do not understand them and their situation completely. But they are living in a very closed situation. It seems that they should be geting outside help, and listening to the advice of the rest of the world. People who need help the most never want to get it.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 1:09 am ET

joan,
Can you say with any certainty that they did not want to get help?

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:11 am ET

Joan
No. Because it is killing innocents in the process.

There is another way. Read this. from an Israeii in Sderot's perspective:

http://www.counterpunch.org/gordon01302008.html

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 1:12 am ET

Guys,

I remember the hope that was expressed by both sides after the 1993 Oslo accords. It was all over the news here in the US.

Now, more than 15 years later, do the Palestinians have it better and have their state? Are Israelis more secure?

How long do people on either side have to wait? Patience is a virtue, but ...

My question is, we are all talking ... well this and this led to this ... what if what if what if, but how can each of us in our own way help to make things better?

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:12 am ET

And a suggestion from a fellow Jew in Peace– WATCH:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2451908450811690589

Violence only begets violence as has been seen for 60 years in this region.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 1:14 am ET

Lynne,
I have posed that question. We, in the United States can write our Congressmen for one, but I would like to know what else we can do.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 1:18 am ET

Of course I can't say with certainty that they don't want help. But, I don't hear anything positive coming from there. I only ever hear sympathy plays and that never works. Of course, I do't hear everything.

Either, I still feel strongly that they need a complete change of strategy, but I don't think I can convince them.

What can each of us do? Good question. How do we change their stratgey because nothing else will work?

Joan

January 7th, 2009 1:21 am ET

I am not an American, but I don't think writing to the Canadian government will help, What can I tell them? And why would they listen? Violence won't work but who can stop it?

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:22 am ET

It is a HUGE quagmire, Linda and all.

I guess if we had answers, we would not b sitting in front of our computers–in our comfortable homes, I might add–discussing this mess.

My sister, who worked for the govt over 30 years, says, we may not see in our lifetimes, the results of groundwork being laid now, but we must keep laying that groundwork.

The machinations of political change won't happen overnight, as history has shown, but we have to keep up the education, dialogue and pressure on govt.

Another very wise woman, my sister! I love her!!

hippie

January 7th, 2009 1:26 am ET

american jew,you're right violence is a drug,it only spreads .this will never end,because the new generation will follow the old generation.
in life we learn to win or lose,but in this case,none of the sides will accept defeat.the only ones who are defeated,unfortunatelly,are the dead ones.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 1:27 am ET

Linda,

I put little faith in our politicians, since I have learned over the years they say things to get elected, appear to be good people, but in actuality are only seeking office to further their own private agendas.

Nahida once said that the best way to effect change is by setting an example. Which goes along with the Quaker belief that is basically God lives in all of us and we best serve Him by serving others.

When I was in Houston, I was very active in an interfaith group. Our "gang" raised money for charities directed at helping families, to buy necessities for the homeless, to help children get preventative medical care, teach basic computer skills, etc. Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian women working together.

This might seem like small beans, but what do you have when you get a lot of small beans? You can construct a very effective device to keep your home warm or a comfortable seat to sit on.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:28 am ET

My opinion is we must do everything–write to our govt leaders, boycott, protest, write letters to the editors, speak up, speak out,

and of course keep blogging :)!!

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:30 am ET

ALL of the above.

It is slow, but change does eventually come!
:)

Linda

January 7th, 2009 1:33 am ET

Lynne,
I agree with putting little faith into politicians, but it still doesn't hurt. Setting an example is the way, and nothing is small beans! Kindness does not have to be on a grand scale to accomplish hope.

American Jew, you are also right. Hopefully someone is reading these blogs that is in the position to do something.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 1:34 am ET

Hippie,

Aloha. And my generation said they would never be their parents, that they had a different way. And maybe the dead are the lucky ones.

" ... c'mon people now smile on your brother everybody get together gotta love one another right now ..."

Joan

January 7th, 2009 1:34 am ET

Things do change. The US elected a black president., a major step forward.

A leader is needed in Palestine. If there are any Arabs here, I would like to understand why the Arabs don't get together to help the Palestinians with humanitarian and economic issues.

Rod

January 7th, 2009 1:39 am ET

ok guys do you really want to know what you can do to help?

hippie

January 7th, 2009 1:39 am ET

hey lynne,do you wanna smoke one

Linda

January 7th, 2009 1:39 am ET

Joan,
you just said that you were not American. So why does it matter to you if our new President is Black, White, or Green. Does that make him or her a better President? What do you mean, a major step forward. For all we know, he could turn out to be a right Shit**. Let's judge him and the American people on what is done, not the color of someone. He has not even taken office yet. It just shows that other parts of the world see us differently than we see ourselves. I say, so what if he/she is purple. Do you think he will be a better President just because he is black? 1/2 black by the way.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 1:39 am ET

Yes. As long as I can do it from here.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 1:40 am ET

Joan,

I think Obama offered a modicum of hope to everyone. At any rate, he's one heck of a speaker and a good diplomat.

Maybe he can use these skills and succeed where others have failed?

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:40 am ET

Agreed Joan

Obama was an amazing shift.

I believe, his shift is the beginning of more shift and change to come.

Yes we can, and we did, here in the US, but what is to come remains to be seen

Linda

January 7th, 2009 1:40 am ET

Yes, Rod

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:41 am ET

Obama is a great role model for us all
Patience, persistence, grassroots, the internet, world youth, this in my opinion is the example we all must follow!

hippie

January 7th, 2009 1:43 am ET

obama will not do nothing,because jews control america

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 1:44 am ET

aloha hippie,

haven't talked to the magic speaker for many moons. i'm in healthcare and subject to the dreaded random tests. man's got the back door.

peace.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:44 am ET

The 'old guard' is powerful but dying off, new ways are here and the old will fight the new like crazy.

But the young will make the path for change happen no matter what.

That is terrifying for the old ways, but tough beans, here we go anyhow!

wheee!!
Humor helps, too.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 1:45 am ET

Lynne,
That;s so funny! :)

cubfan

January 7th, 2009 1:46 am ET

Hamas is giving up. The almighty Hamas army is surrendering in droves; the IDF will be wrapping up its operations in Gaza within the week. At least the soldiers of Hamas realize they have no chance and are not willing to die for their evil, corrupt leadership. This is a great sign that the war against Hamas was the right decision and the people of Palestine will achieve peace and security thanks to the heroic IDF.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 1:48 am ET

Clubfan
where did you see that Hamas is giving up? I would like to check it out.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:49 am ET

Grassroots + youth = hope for the world's future!
Si se puede

;)

Joan

January 7th, 2009 1:50 am ET

No. I do not think he is better or worse because he is black, but I do think that blacks have been oppressed in the US and it is good to see that that is changing.

I do care very much about the U.S President, however. THe US leads the free world and, like it or not, Canadians are very very much affected by what hapens in the US. THe US is our largest trading partner and we are so physically close to the the US and so much less powerful that we are very much affected by US foreign policy.

I care very much, and even though I can't vote I do have an opinion. I don't know whether Obama will be a good president or not, I was simply making a statement about the change in US race relations., and the fact that old prejudices do change.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:50 am ET

I cannot believe the most sane folks here tonight.

Those hateful ones should be arriving soon, I fear!

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 1:52 am ET

Puppy fan,

Where'd you see that? Give a link ...

Linda,

Guess I just gave away how ancient I really am 8) But I swear I feel 20 again!

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:53 am ET

Joan,
Your opinion counts!

Thanks for your input–it matters

Linda

January 7th, 2009 1:54 am ET

Joan,
Have you seen what Obama has to say about Trade? Too many people around the world, and in this country, has latched on to the "Rock Star" Effect. I hope it all turns out well for you and us both. We could use a fresh perspective, as long as it doesn't get us into trouble. I just think that world have tried to make Americans seem more racist than we really are.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:55 am ET

Rod,
we want to hear from you.

hippie

January 7th, 2009 1:55 am ET

lynne,yes or no?

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 1:56 am ET

AJ,

Hopefully not. We've "run 'em off" before. Strategy: do not respond.

Si se puede otre (sp?) mas y muchas mas.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 1:57 am ET

Joan,
And I will say that I may have come down on you a little hard, but with what is going on in our Senate today, with the racial issue, I may be a little defensive. I am so sick of race dictating everything. I apologize. Your opinion does count.

hippie

January 7th, 2009 1:58 am ET

joan this is not about nafta

Linda

January 7th, 2009 1:58 am ET

Rod is on another blog right now.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 1:59 am ET

Barham
I just saw your post.

Obama basically commented–himself for the 1st time– that he is "monitoring the situation closely, is very concerned about the innocents killed in Gaza AND Israel, and will address situation after Jan 2oth"

I paraphrase, but that was his message.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 1:59 am ET

Yes, Linda, I have heard a lot of what Obama has said. Like you, I still haven't seen him in action, so I'll withhold judgement.

Hunk

January 7th, 2009 2:00 am ET

not to confuses that civilians have the right to possess a pistol .... for self defense.

Death tool has risen to 660 dead, but can the UN tell who is a civilian and who is a fighter ... if you are chanting a song for those resistance forces and you are not carrying a gun then and you get killed, u are considered as a civilian or otherwise ? and why ....

If a whole nation is armed and you see them carrying machine guns but live on settlements and a rocket comes flying and kill two, they are considered as what ? Civilian or otherwise? and ....

Linda

January 7th, 2009 2:00 am ET

A J
I think that is very smart on his part.

hippie

January 7th, 2009 2:00 am ET

yes we can,are you sure

Nam(South Korea,Busan)

January 7th, 2009 2:01 am ET

Israel has own country.
They have water, food, money, power.....
What they want more.

Gaza in humanitarian crisis.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 2:05 am ET

Linda, I agree that dragging in the race issue in the senate today was irrelevant. And I know that Americans are not all racists. So, enough of race, that's not the issue.

hippie

January 7th, 2009 2:06 am ET

land

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 2:06 am ET

No, I'm not sure of anything, hippie, but I have hope.

Obama has inspired ME at least to act from my conscience.

Before Obama, I would not be as active, like I am here at Blog Wars Central. In the small ways I am now trying to be active.

I may be one drop in the ocean–as we all are–but our involvement DOES matter.

Rod

January 7th, 2009 2:09 am ET

OK guys thank you for Asking

I will suggest steps and you guys can pick what you want or all

First step: Educate yourself about the conflict. Where Why and How, be open minded "what you've learned all your life might not be true.

Second step: Recognize the other's right to exist, to resist humiliation and believe in their right of self determination

Third step: Resist Extremism within your community, understand that extremism is not an Islamic problem. ( I can show you many statements from Christian and Jewish religious and political leaders against muslims that will shock you, these statement are very horrific and disgusting really).

Fourth Step: do not give excuses to killing innocent civilians, there is no excuse to it.

Fifth Step: educate others cause you will be surprised how many people believe the notion that muslims are here to kill us and we should kill them before they do.

Sixth Step: contact the president elect request a change in american policies and the unconditional support to the state of Israel and the American recognition to the Palestinians right to freedom and self determination. http://www.change.gov

Eighth Step: Be a Human Rights' advocate (Human Rights should not be violated anywhere)

Ninth Step: Do it now

Tenth Step: go back to Step One, keep going and never give up. do not let anyone derail you and focus on the issues ( Human rights should not be violated does not matter who does it and why they do it.

Thank you All
Rod

Linda

January 7th, 2009 2:11 am ET

Thanks Rod!

Hunk

January 7th, 2009 2:12 am ET

Nam(South Korea,Busan),

No they don't want that ...... they will give bandages for sure, .... but nothing more as a blogger here add.

Sticking to the issues as the insults flies worked for Obama during the campaign and works for me here.

When it gets too bad, I leave, since no one's listening anyhow.

:)

Linda

January 7th, 2009 2:13 am ET

Joan,
Race isn't the issue with most Americans either. The only reason I wrote that is because you wrote:
"Things do change. The US elected a black president., a major step forward. "

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 2:14 am ET

Hunk,

Doubtful. Is there a difference? Does it come down to who is armed? Can you be sure when you shoot that the other is armed? What is armed? Machine gun, shot gun, RPGL, cross-bow, sling shot, womens' hair combs and bobbypins, hands? Equally deadly. If applied to one, apply to all, but with the benefit of doubt. UN cannot be sure.

hippie

January 7th, 2009 2:14 am ET

good for you american jew,but i don't and will not see change on foreign policy.the only change wil be on the economy,because if the economy was in good shape,mccain would be in power.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 2:15 am ET

Rod,

I fully agree that human right should not be violated and violence is not the answer. And I think we all do, but how do we stop it? I don't always agree with the US policies, but exactly how will changing US policy be a complete fix for the situation?

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 2:16 am ET

Ok, back to the issue at hand.

GREAT STUFF, ROD!!

SAY IT AGAIN AND AGAIN!!

hippie

January 7th, 2009 2:19 am ET

isn't obama half white,and half black,or am i trippin.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 2:19 am ET

Hippie,

You said 'land'. How will that help? Except for feelings.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 2:20 am ET

You are correct, Hippie

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 2:20 am ET

I might add, Rod, that reading all media is a must too aswe don't get the whole picture just from American media/

That includes Fox–ugh from my POV
and Aljazeera–ugh from IDF POV

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 2:22 am ET

dominique thank you!

I just watched the Occupation 101 link you gave earlier. Here it is again.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2451908450811690589

History proves these Jewish Methodologies to regain their sacred Israel land, better known as Zionism.

Again, I say: CNN report these facts of historic occupation! Remember you say it: No Bias – No Bull!

Hunk

January 7th, 2009 2:24 am ET

what about the One chanting a song like at the river of Babylon .... its a song ... so he is not involving politics ... what if the song is lets go to Ramallah and pray on Jerusalem chanted by a Saudi .... is he making also a political statement ...

Its really pointless .... that body bags are under profiling .... on both sides remember on both sides .

Linda

January 7th, 2009 2:24 am ET

Ok, let me get everyone's opinion on this. On Fox, and man is speaking on the Gaza crisis. He just stated that Hamas is holding 1.5m Palestinians hostage,and whether the Arab countries know it or not, Israel is liberating those people.
Any thoughts?

Nona

January 7th, 2009 2:25 am ET

Wow!. Some sanity on the board! We may not all agree, but what a relief to see respectful discussion, an honest quest for insight, and a healthy discourse in the spirit of good faith! :)

I just wanted to share this analysis that CNN posted earlier because I think it's one of the best commentaries I've seen about the current mess:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/06/iftikhar.gaza/index.html

Linda

January 7th, 2009 2:26 am ET

That is what we have been striving for here Nona. Glad you joined us, thanks for the link.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 2:29 am ET

Thanks for repeating this info, Ginny, keep putting it out there!

You are correct, a very sobering POV from this documentary: Jews, Israelis, Muslims, Christians and UN Reps in this...their "on the ground" first-hand experience:

‘When dealing with oppression , there is no balance.’

‘Criticizing the Israeli government is not anti-semitism, it is humane.’

‘There will be no security for Israel as long as the oppression of Palestinians continues.’

‘It is not in Israel’s interest to continue the occupation’

Rod

January 7th, 2009 2:31 am ET

American Jew,
I agree with you. American media is so biased.

You keep posting a video, please keep posting it. I will tell you what I did. I emailed the link to many friends.
Why.
Because that video shows you some realities of the ugliness of occupation. makes you feel why palestinians feel the whole world had turned its back at them. Actually living under the occupation is the worst thing that can happen to someone. I hope people see the video and just think "What if that oppression was happening to me, how would I feel, what would I do"
the video interviews mostly jewish people. so it is not a palestinian propaganda. has many facts and has won many awards.
you too keep sharing it with others and if you guys interested i can share with you many articles from many sources.

this is a clip of the movie. See the little girl talking, it is heartbreaking.
look how the shelling is so reckless and IDF commanders say we do not target civilians. I did not see but homes and random shelling and shooting at these homes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0T3jMRNwV8

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 2:32 am ET

Nona,
Thanks!!

It is more sane is it not?

I will watch the link you just provided.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 2:32 am ET

Linda,

The Fox report sounds very biased to me. But, given some of the comments earlier in the blog about the Palestinians feeling powerless and oppressed by Hamas, there is probably a very tiny bit of triuh in that. However, it doesn't justify Israel's methods, and I think it is irresponsible and appalling for a news agency to report that.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 2:38 am ET

I agree with the appallingness of what the news media is reporting. I flipped it over to Fox because CNN's headline story last hour was how Oprah is battling her weight again. Boy that is news worth, don't you think? wink, wink,
I just found it interesting, so many different points of view, on the same thing, I have never heard that point of view before.

hippie

January 7th, 2009 2:41 am ET

u see on tv to donate money for russian jews to come to their homeland,and more settlements are being built in the west bank.
wars are always lies.where are the weapons of mass destruction,oops i have a bong does that count as one

Solomon

January 7th, 2009 2:42 am ET

are we at this point now seeing Millions in the Arab world demonstrating in anger

The poem, by Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish, was written in 1964 and tells of a Palestinian father being stopped by Israeli soldiers and asked for hisidentity

Record

I am an Arab

And my identity card is number fifty thousand

I have eight children

And the ninth is coming after a summer

Will you be angry?

Record!

I am an Arab

Employed with fellow workers at a quarry

I have eight children

I get them bread

Garments and books

from the rocks..

I do not supplicate charity at your doors

Nor do I belittle myself at the footsteps of your chamber

So will you be angry?

Record!

I am an Arab

I have a name without a title

Patient in a country

Where people are enraged

My roots

Were entrenched before the birth of time

And before the opening of the eras

Before the pines, and the olive trees

And before the grass grew

My father.. descends from the family of the plow

Not from a privileged class

And my grandfather was a farmer

Neither well-bred, nor well-born!

Teaches me the pride of the sun

Before teaching me how to read

And my house is like a watchman’s hut

Made of branches and cane

Are you satisfied with my status?

I have a name without a title!

Record!

I am an Arab

You have stolen the orchards of my ancestors

And the land which I cultivated

Along with my children

And you left nothing for us

Except for these rocks..

So will the State take them

As it has been said?!

Therefore!

Record on the top of the first page:

I do not hate people

Nor do I encroach

But if I become hungry

The usurper’s flesh will be my food

Beware..

Beware..

Of my hunger

And my anger!*

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 2:43 am ET

Nona,
Excellent! Very well written thoughts by human rights lawyer, Arsalan Iftikhar. I come from the human level of this mess. This guy says it in a way I hope both sides of the issue can relate to. Some quotes:

"Let it be shouted from the rooftops of the world: There is no military solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Regardless of perpetual finger-pointing and one-sided condemnations from both sides, hundreds of millions worldwide condemn both sides of the current siege."

Until this cyclical dilemma of civilian murder on both sides ends, we will be left haunted with these visionary words of Mahatma Gandhi:

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."'

Nona

January 7th, 2009 2:47 am ET

I think it is vitally important to differentiate Hamas and the Palestinian people. They are not one and the same.

There is no question that Hama's chartered mission is the destruction of Israel. Hamas clerics regularly preach that it is the duty of their followers to kill Jews. Hamas is linked to al Quaeda, Hezbullah, Islamic Jihad, al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Taliban, etc. Does anybody deny that these organizations are hell-bent on mass murder and terror?

There is plenty of evidence for those honestly seeking both sides of the story to verify Hamas's goals and aims, and there is also plenty of evidence that Hamas fighters use civilians as human shields and deliberately put them in harm's way. I am not saying Israel is blame-free in this mess, but if we're going to have an honest discussion, we have to be honest about what Hamas stands for, its priorities and its values. And don't we also have to acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist and defend its citizens from attack?

The PA government in the West Bank is more moderate. The West Bank is not firing rockets, and the West Bank is not the subject of military operations. That's not a coincidence.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 2:48 am ET

It's getting late. Thank you all for your insight. I still feel strongly that the situation can and should have a more expedient solution. I don't think violence gets anyone anywhere, and I do feel that the Palestinians, as the less powerful group, must make the first moves to stop violence. They cannot win that way and they deserve a better life.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 2:49 am ET

Solomon-
Thanks for posting the poem.

For me it reflects the human reaction to hunger, anger, and occupation.

The human side of these 3 lethal aspects is ugly indeed.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 2:52 am ET

Joan,
So glad you were here tonight.

I don't agree with all you say, but I'm glad we could keep dialoguing about our thoughts.

Very educational and respectful!

Come again!

Hunk

January 7th, 2009 2:53 am ET

Solomon,

u brought tears to my eyes

Thank u a million ....

Linda

January 7th, 2009 2:54 am ET

I agree with you Nona.

Linda

January 7th, 2009 2:55 am ET

by Joan, Hope to see you again

Rod

January 7th, 2009 2:57 am ET

Linda,
The statement on Fox does not make sense. When Palestinians elected hamas they elected them for one reason. they were fed up with the Palestinian Authority and their failures to fulfill the palestinian hopes ( if you watched occupation 101 you will know what i am talking about . the Palestinian Authority failed for many reasons and I can discuss these if you like. Even Christians voted for Hamas. I met a CNN reporter who made a story "why Christians voted for Hamas" (A fundamentalist Islamic Group). this report was never Aired ( you may ask why!)
I do not believe the objective of this operation is to "Liberate Palestinians"
Even The israeli PM said it is not aimed at a regime change!!
so to me why kill over 530 Palestinians and gravely injure over 2700 people and destroy the infrastructure!

I think the Israeli government should end their occupation before talking about liberating palestinians!

Then i will be there with them for the liberation.

Nona

January 7th, 2009 2:58 am ET

Thank you, Linda.

And thank you Solomon for a beautiful poem.

In many ways, the destruction and warfare is the easy part. The hard part is forgiveness. All sides have been hurt, all sides have been killed, all sides have had their hearts and souls ripped apart, and all sides have done plenty of things that are damned hard to forgive.

But until both sides can find in in their hearts to forgive, nothing changes except the death toll. There is no victory in dead children, regardless of whose they are.

Rod

January 7th, 2009 3:00 am ET

Joan and Others,
you asked how our policy affects what i happening and what you can do
look at this site
http://www.endtheoccupation.org/

Joan

January 7th, 2009 3:01 am ET

Solomon,

I understand and accept that the Palestinians have some legitimate grievances, and it is human nature to want to regain anything that is taken from you. However, it is also a failing strategy. Those that can make the best of what they have and build on it are successful. Hong Kong, Monaco, and Singapore are all successful. Why not build on what you have and then try to expand econonically. Palestinians deserve something better than to see themselves as completely dependent upon land. There is lots of land in Africa, but it is not prosperous, and many people are poor and starving

hippie

January 7th, 2009 3:04 am ET

a problem from the beginning of humanity that will never be solved.

Hunk

January 7th, 2009 3:05 am ET

Nona,

"The PA government in the West Bank is more moderate"

Could you please change "moderate" with "corrupted" and "in" with "of"

it will appeal more , from an Arab perspective

Rod

January 7th, 2009 3:07 am ET

For those of you who wanted to learn more about Fatah, Hamas and the current conflict this is an article by Uri Avnery An Israeli Writer
http://www.avnery-news.co.il/english/index.html

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 3:10 am ET

Solomon,

Thanks for the poem. It is very moving. I think that music and poetry are things that everyone can understand and are a uniting force.

There is a poem written by an Israeli woman shortly after a particularly ugly suicide bombing of a Tel Aviv disco around 2002/2003. I think I have it saved somewhere, it was so poignant, although I can't remember the woman's name. A man posted it in a BBC chat room. The interesting thing was that the women read into the poem a plea for peace and hope; the men a call to war and for vengeance.

What I am interested in is what everyone thinks Solomon's poem is saying?

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 3:13 am ET

What do you think, Lynne?

Linda

January 7th, 2009 3:17 am ET

Rod,
I am familiar with Occupation 101.
I did not say that I agreed in any way with that point of view. I was stating what was being said, and asks for any thoughts. I went on to say that I have never heard that view before.

Joan

January 7th, 2009 3:18 am ET

hippie,

true, but i do think the world is getting better and smarter and I am always optimistic. when you don't have military power, you need to try something else, like brain power. And, I wish nobody had military power

Rod

January 7th, 2009 3:21 am ET

Linda i did not say you agreed! hope I did not sound like i did. I was just giving you my thoughts.
Remember on the school thing. My opinion was the people were there seeking refuge from the shelling and bombing.

look at this report:

Thirty one people are believed to have died and dozens more wounded when the Israeli army targeted an elementary school in Jabalya in northern Gaza Tuesday.

The United Nations said hundreds of people had moved into the building to shelter themselves from the ongoing hostilities.

Majed Hamdan, a photographer with The Associated Press, rushed to the scene shortly after the attacks. At the hospital, he said, many children were among the dead.

"I saw women and men, parents, slapping their faces in grief, screaming, some of them collapsed to the floor. They knew their children were dead," he said. "In the morgue, most of the killed appeared to be children. In the hospital, there wasn't enough space for the wounded."

"There's nowhere safe in Gaza. Everyone here is terrorized and traumatized," John Ging, the top UN official in Gaza said.

"I am appealing to political leaders here and in the region and the world to get their act together and stop this," he said, speaking at Gaza's largest hospital. "They are responsible for these deaths."

Linda

January 7th, 2009 3:24 am ET

It is just horrible, what is happening. I feel so bad for everyone in the middle of this situation. Thanks for sharing the report!

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 3:25 am ET

Solomon’s poem is not saying, but rather changing; the “Record”. He seems to believe the record is what makes his life worthy to him and all the “Arab” descendants.

CS

January 7th, 2009 3:27 am ET

CNN confirms ISRAEL BROKE CEASE FIRE 2 MONTHS AGO.

http://www.youtube.comwatch?v=KntpoRXFX4

check it out

Solomon

January 7th, 2009 3:30 am ET

Rod.

it does not look like the Israeli care much about international public opinion.or EU or UN.as long as the US is supporting them.

I think they will pay dearly in the next weeks and months. those people that lost their children their parents brothers and sisters will wait for the first opportunity to take revenge from the Israeli they will not listen to reason because the world left them alone.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 3:32 am ET

Isn't Record from the Koran, Solomon?

Allah's command to Mohammad?

chaunce

January 7th, 2009 3:34 am ET

I feel at least one of the pharmacutical also known as drug companies in our united states should donate medical supplies immediately for gazza people all people need love, and life at least a chance kids bodies are damaged for life and others are seeing their brother and sister die in their face and they cry so hard they cant breath and their momy and dad we can help we all need to help get all the medical help we can and call the drug companies nicely and ask them to please help EVERY PERSON IN THIS WORLD CAN MAKE SOMETHING BETTER AND HELP ONE PERSON MAKES A DIFFERENCE PLEASE WE ALL ARE DIFFRENT PLEASE HELP SAVE A LIFE

Solomon

January 7th, 2009 3:37 am ET

CS
I have been saying this for days we know that Israel broke the ceasefire now you will see the pro Israeli posters accusing the CNN like they accused the BBC an Aljazeera.

they want every body to watch FOX news. the station that will show dead Palestinian children but still it will say this death is staged.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 3:40 am ET

AJ,

Here's my take

I am known as 50,000
what number will my next child be named?
I am a stonecutter, not a wealthy man
but I provide for my family
Why do you look down on me?
Why would I need charity
I feel as a stranger in my land
but I cannot leave
my roots are here!
My father and his father farmed this land
They were simple men
but they taught me dignity
Now strangers want to take my heritage
my dignity
it's all I have to leave my children
Still I do not hate
or show disrespect
But I must defend my home.

Hmm, and I'm sure there is a lot lost in the translation from Arabic to English. There are some things that you just cannot translate.

Rod

January 7th, 2009 3:41 am ET

CS there were 192 confirmed Israeli violations to the ceasefire agreement in the last 6 months and the preparations for the Gaza massacre were more than 6 months ago.

By the way, from a strategic military point, it takes more than three days to prepare for big operations such as an invasion. professional armies do not invade any place after 3 days of an incident that provokes a military action cause such a response will result in heavy casualties.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 3:49 am ET

My opinion below, and right off, this is not black and white nor easy to write about in a short way.

Nona Writes:

'And don’t we also have to acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist and defend its citizens from attack?'

The Jewish people definitely have the right to exist, live in peace and equitably with its neighbors.

I, myself however, have problems–big problems–with the Zionist aspect and Israeli GOV'T in its present form in today's world. This in itself will take a book to cover and many are out there!

'The PA government in the West Bank is more moderate. The West Bank is not firing rockets, and the West Bank is not the subject of military operations. That’s not a coincidence.'

At one time, the PA was considered terrorist. Again not black and white. The West Bank is also an issue, tho not at the moment, in the world's eyes.

These two questions will take pages and pages, but are definitely important ones to be explored.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 3:50 am ET

Nona,

"... the destruction and warfare is the easy part. The hard part is forgiveness. ... all sides have had their hearts and souls ripped apart, ... But until both sides can find in in their hearts to forgive, nothing changes except the death toll. There is no victory in dead children, regardless of whose they are."

Very well said.

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 3:52 am ET

Before CNN had adequate correspondents in Gaza (2 days ago I think), they were interviewing a Gaza resident over the internet and I was watching it on TV. Immediately, when the resident started addressing the month old banking crisis in his economy and how Israel had advantage, the CNN anchor quickly cut him off, changed the subject, and ended the interview.

Very disturbing to me……………

Solomon

January 7th, 2009 3:52 am ET

American Jew.

no I dont think it is from the Quran.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 3:53 am ET

Lynne,
Your interpretation is how I, too, see it.

Solomon, are we on target?

Chris

January 7th, 2009 3:53 am ET

For What Its Worth

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

CONTACT THE U.S. CONGRESS TO
RESCIND THE LOAN GUARANTEES TO ISRAEL

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 3:54 am ET

Bad usage of words there, sorry!

Are we correct?

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 3:57 am ET

i have a question to CNN?

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=bNyer87B2cg

is it true that Israel spread cancer over Gaza?
is is this not very bad and against any intrnational law?
is is not against any humanity?
and is this not interessting to the people around the world?

to me this sounds very bad!!!
and i think the worls should know that is this is true!

this is very woerse to the Palestinians!
with such weapons they never will find peace!
this will hurt the civilians also after the official war!
and if this is true the israelian leadership have to be broght to Den Haag at the international court of justice!!!!

just because such things is against international law
and we have to use the same international law to same international crimes!!!

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 3:57 am ET

.............but who controls CNN? GE, who also is one of the biggest and pending American military contractors in today's market.

just a fyi...........:)

CS

January 7th, 2009 3:59 am ET

Rod. I just pray that more of the truth gets out so that the masses can see what Israel has done to provoke this. I know that the cease fire has been broken by Israel more than 3 days ago. You know. The challenge will be to get people who support Israel blindly to see that they are not innocent in this. Some will be stubborn, and continue to make excuses for Israel. I mean, if CNN told us that Israel was gasing Palestinians, supporters of Israel, and Israelis would find an excuse. But we still have to try to reach the reasonable:)

Solomon

January 7th, 2009 4:00 am ET

Lynne.

very good .you did a good job in simplifying it.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 4:01 am ET

Chris,

Interesting stats. Where'd you locate them, or did you calculate?

I know the 2008 budget was approximately $3.8B, with almost $3B in military aid, compared with only about $270M in economic aid to the Palestinian "territories".

CS

January 7th, 2009 4:01 am ET

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDBiycEz12s

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 4:08 am ET

The Occupation 101 doc said USA has provided $108 BILLION to Israel since 1948...money that goes to Israel today could provide 10,000s of USA children health care.

I want my tax dollars to go to providing health care for US citizens, not toward killing machines in the M.E.!!

Nona

January 7th, 2009 4:10 am ET

Hunk - thanks for your input. You and I are just going to have to disagree since our beliefs are so vastly different. You do not believe Israel has the right to exist, and I believe it does. You believe terror is justified, and I believe terror is never justified. You believe that heroes avenge, and I believe that heroes forgive. You believe there is victory in Israeli dead children. I believe there is no victory in any dead children. So we are just going to have to agree to disagree until one of us has an epiphany and changes his/her mind. I realize this difference of opinion means that you believe I am an enemy who should be killed, but I simply say to you that intelligent people can disagree.

Lynne - Thank you for your kind words.

AJ - Yes, what you say about the PA is true. At one time the PA was considered terrorist. One day it may be again. We are talking about toeday's conflict. Please take my words in the context intended, because as of the time they were written, the PA at least was making an effort to live in peace.

Finally to everybody, do not ever forget what Hamas is about and what it's goals are, and if you don't know, learn! The Palestinians and Hamas are not any more synonomous than Americans and Bush are. Just because they were elected does no mean that either serves the interests of their constituents or the pursuit of peace.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 4:12 am ET

Solomon,

Thanks, I thought I may have lost something that does not have an expression in English.

AJ,

Those are also my sentiments concerning tax dollars. Healthcare and education for our own first. I wonder what would happen if we started deducting our share of military support to other countries from our tax returns? 8) Another Tea Party in the making.

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 4:14 am ET

Nona

January 7th, 2009 4:14 am ET

The U.S. money figures are without context unless you also count how much money the UN and the international community and oil rich Arab states and Muslim countries and charities give to the Palestinians each year. It's easily in the hundreds of billions of dollars. The Palestinians have long been plagued with corruption so sadly a huge proportion of it never goes to the people, infrastructure, economic development or peace initiatives.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 4:18 am ET

CS writes:

"The challenge will be to get people who support Israel blindly to see that they are not innocent in this. Some will be stubborn, and continue to make excuses for Israel."

I agree! This is the major problem, indeed.

The ones with money and power, ie, right wing Jewish lobbyists, like AIPAC, and Christian Fundamentalists, like Pat Robertson... (who btw is NO friend of the Jews...just make the second coming happen, Israeli Jews, then either convert or burn in hell!)

Settlers ands settlements....very huge problem!!

A rabbi friend of mine who was in Israel last month, said the religious Jewish settlers are "armed and dangerous."

Nona

January 7th, 2009 4:21 am ET

Ginny, it's not particularly relevant, but for the record ...

CNN is owned by AOL Time Warner.

NBC is owned by GE.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 4:21 am ET

Lynne,

Let's start a nationwide tea party–yes!!

:D

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 4:28 am ET

Nona,
It is good to have the dialogue we have going here–you have provided info that I have and will continue looking at.

I don't trust politicians and govts. I do have issues with extremists, believe me, From my POV, right now, all involved are committing terrorists acts in different violent ways.

Although we do not agree on details, we do agree about the over all inhumane direction of this situation, I think

On that note, may the dialogue continue as well as the education

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 4:29 am ET

Nona,

I didn't say "own". I said, "controls".

CS

January 7th, 2009 4:33 am ET

Lynn. It has just been reported that Israel broke the cease fire 2 months ago. Weather or not people feel Israel should or should'nt exist is a waist of time to talk about because, even though they stole land from Palestinians, and opress them daily...they still exist. So let's get to today. I have been trying to say that Israel has been provoking Palestine, and, with the help of good ol' Hank, and CNN of course...we now know that Israel attacked Gaza 2 months ago. 2 months before the cease fire. So for all you supporters of terror...I mean Israel, you can no longer cry "Israel is bieg attacked and bombed ny Hamas, what do you expect?" Now we know that Israel started this conflict. Now go ahead...come back with some new excuse for Israels actions, because I you and I know that even if Israel were sending Palestinians to the gas chambers, you, and people like you will always support terror....I mean Israel.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 4:34 am ET

Nona,

I agree that figures are more or less meaningless unless you consider all aid. I might also add that you must consider the amount of aid per capita to the country being aided.

US aid, not including private charitable contributions was the greatest per capita to Israel as compared to other nations the US grants aid. The thing that I object to is my tax dollar going to military aid to any nation.

I also will agree that the PA is corrupt and that most of the economic assistance does not make it to infrastructure where it is needed. I saw first hand when I visited Nahida's family with her in the West Bank several years ago the lifestyles of the "in" politicos.

Sad ...

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 4:36 am ET

Hi CS,

Did you see this article from Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=1050426
Says this siege has been planned for 6 months.

Plitics is ugly!!

Solomon

January 7th, 2009 4:44 am ET

I am sorry I have to show this to who thinks that there is still humanity in this world. for god sake stop this

http://www.alquds.co.uk/

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 4:46 am ET

I just heard an interview with a young Israeli woman on CNN. I think she lives in Sderot or somewhere near Gaza rockets. She says more talking is needed and not military force.

Last night I saw an interview with Israeli citizen Neve Gordon on the news.

He says there is a group of 1800 Israelis in Sderot, where he lives.

They are called An Alternative Voice for Peace (I think) and this group does not think Israel tried diplomacy/talking enough.

There were between 5-10,000 Israeli protesters against the gov’ts actions on Gaza in Tel Aviv Saturday.

Sunday, I hear that Israel–democracy, huh?–will not even allow its citizens to protest anymore..

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 4:47 am ET

CS:
If CNN reported the truth, Israel started this conflict, why are they not repeating it over-and-over as they "do" with every other story they cover?

Think about it............

Kris

January 7th, 2009 4:48 am ET

I believe that Hamas becomes violent when they can no longer live up to expectations from those they claim to represent because it is the only way to whip up sentiments and attract aid/relief materials from international communities. This is typical of all terrorists organizations. History has shown over time that you do not negotiate or compromise when dealing with terrorism. Sad as it may be that innocent people are dying, Hamas should be held responsible. Peace can best be acheived in the battlefield and that is what Israel is doing.

Brandon

January 7th, 2009 4:48 am ET

GUYS IM BACK!!!!
AFTER A LONG AND TIRING DAY AT WORK..

SOLOMON…

YEAH, I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER IF MOST OF THE POLITICAL LEADERS ARE WOMEN….THOUGH..

BUT IN ANYHOW,LET THE BLOG WARS CONTINUE!!! ( COMMENTS )… IM KINDA LEFT BEHIND FOR QUITE AWHILE…FOR ANY UPDATES…I LOVED READING ALL THE NEWS AND COMMENTS….

Nona

January 7th, 2009 4:49 am ET

Awful photo, Solomon. War is horrific on both sides. A bomb shelter probably would have saved that child. So sad.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 4:50 am ET

CS,

Don't know if you were directing your comments to me or not ...

Personally, [and some of you may have seen this last night, so excuse the redundancy], I don't believe that either Hamas or the Israeli politicians care a bit about the every day person in the street. Both sides are deliberately provoking each other for personal gain (read staying in power).

If you've noticed, every time there is relative calm one side or the other will stir things up. Peace looks like it may become a fact ... adieu Rabin. Relative calm ... let's suicide bomb Tel Aviv. Relative calm. Let's have a kidnapping. Likud is neck and neck with Kadima ... let's make an incursion in the name of assassinating militants (oops, make it terrorists, Bush won't squeak). You came onto our turf and murdered our politicos, hello missiles. There are many others, and ordinary folks trying to get on with their lives get caught in the middle.

No one is lily white, and pointing fingers is the pot calling the kettle black.

As for me, I abhor and can never justify violence in any form, unless you deliberately and maliciously injure a child. In such case I will make sure that you suffer greatly before you depart this world.

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 4:51 am ET

It has been–surprisingly!==calm tonight, Brandon.

Maybe we are having a ceasefire of our own tonight, eh, folks?

Saudi

January 7th, 2009 4:53 am ET

Israel To Set Up “Humanitarian Corridor” In Gaza

CONTROL, CONTROL AND CONTROL.

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 4:53 am ET

Hi again Brandon,

Howzit?

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 4:56 am ET

Lynne,
Keep being redundant!! The more so, the better...that's how advertising works.

Say the same thing over and over and maybe the message will one day get across.

Besides new folks pass through here hourly.

Cannot say it enough!

Lynne

January 7th, 2009 5:01 am ET

AJ,

Hourly, you say? Judging from some of the language last night ... or perhaps it's not considered offensive like Mario's language would be on the BBC. Definitely deleted forever 8)

Anyway, I'm off for the night. It's 11 pm here in little d (DFW Tx for those of y'all that can't relate). I have a Sibe that griping for the nightly 5 mile run before bedtime.

Thanks for the conversation and hope to see ya'll again.

Hasta manana!

American Jew

January 7th, 2009 5:06 am ET

Well, my friends,
I am in awe. This has been the most productive dialogue on a CNN blog yet!! Most impressive.

I suspect the terrorist bloggers will arrive shortly, so I will bid you all goodnight and hope we will do this again.

Thanks to all, the ones I agree and disagree with–all.

Here=s to future sane blogging!

Laila tov!! Good night- Your in humane peace
AJ

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 5:07 am ET

Ginny

i noticed that too !
and i know much other people which noticed similar things!

CNN did very often cut people which did speak in the name of Palestine or Gaza!!
but they did never cut some israelians!!

and i think CNN is also hiding information they have!

and i think its no totaly objective what we get and tend to be pro-israelic!
this is on cost of the truth!!! of objectivity!!
and its not really god for CNN it self if they join a side in this war!!

i think something is going on what we should not know!!
Its poison to the international press!!

and its very easy to see!!

they cut people in intervies, they change topics in interviews, but never if a israelic is speaking!!
(may now this will change because it was to easy to see until now)

and i get time after time more and more the idea that we have to hope that LatinAmerica will stop this war !
same as i begin to think that the UN USA EU and Arabs are all invalid
they speak and speak until war is history!

i think more Countrys should set a sign against war and send the Israelic ambassadors back to war-zone.
this chavez guy is maybe a bit radical but maybe also not so wrong.

Rod

January 7th, 2009 5:14 am ET

Ok guys, let me close my comments.
We need to remember there are many things that lead to this situation.
it is not Israel being hit by Hamas rockets as it is clear when you study what is happening.

And Israel is not going to be immune from these rockets after its aggression is ended and achieved its objective in the eyes of Israeli politicians. anyway why search for another reason in the future if you have it and it works then keep it! and use it when you need it ( very smart)

There will be a cease fire. Hamas and Israel will both claim victory.
Israel will say We have weakend Hamas and Hamas will say Isreal could not Remove us and we are even stronger.

The sad things is that the kids (Infants and Toddlers) whom I saw on TV being buried are Dead Thanks to Extermism and I am not Talking about Hamas Only! I am Talking about the Israeli Extremism even more.

More than 600 Palestinians killed 40% of them are women and Children.

Few Days more and we will Reach over a THOUSAND then Kadima led by Levni have better chance to win the Elections!
Thousand Heads! Good price for a PM and a majority government.

ahmad

January 7th, 2009 5:17 am ET

How some balance when reporting the news CNN, if this is not genocide I don’t know what is? So called oppressed people turned to be the oppressor, killing civilian in Palestine or in Lebanon, it is ok so the life of the Palestinian not as important as the life of Jew, Alas for or the objectivity in reporting the news, the truth is always the killed in any war, and simple act of criticizing Israel and it polices and occupation and all they did is Anti-Semitic, it is the Occupation Stupid end IT and every one will be safe , oops I should stop now I don’t want to be called Anti-Semitic.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 5:20 am ET

Ginny

yes exactly ...
CNN repeat some reports over and over and some reports come only one or two times!
but are not less interesant, but maybe its not what they wanna let us know!!
here in europe we notced that too!!!

i think CNN is maybe corruptet by israel

also in this moment ... i think something is going on what we should not know!
they did talk all the time about Gaza
and now they repeat Sopts and general news and they turn and turn and turn it to endless

to me it smells!
but maybe we have to be patient until we will get some truth
also i think CNN maybe not hidde everything ... but maybe they block information and delay it as israel need it.

maybe its not the fault of CNN
who knows who is dictating them what?
and who beleves they are free as a free press should be?

i think we also have to think about if CNN is a bit cluffed
and maybe we have to be patient with them
because some of this superstar reporters are also very nice to look at ;)

Nick-Canada

January 7th, 2009 5:36 am ET

Anyone around here think it's alright too launch deadly rockets from within a school? Anyone think its alright to stock pile weapons in a mosque? Anyone around here think its alright to open blockades only to give Islamic terrorists access to more weapons, ammo and terrorist funding that would find its way in? Ya people were all human, any human suffering is sad too see, nobody likes too see these pictures of children blown to bits, but if my town was being retaliated against due to my countries ignorence, stupidity, I would head for the hills. Not campout next door to a bloody school I watched my Islamic terrorist leaders blast rockets out of. Hamas is winning over the people with these snapshots (suffering children). There not coming from international reporters but from Hamas themselves. This way the world forgets all about them being bloody terrorists whos only goal is to be an aggressive state against Israel and the west. We must not forget that anyone who is non-Muslim is too be terrorized or killed by Muslims, is this not what the Quran calls for? This be the case this war is not a war against Israel, It is an Islamic war against the west and anyone who supports freedom. True freedom. I sure hope Barrack does'nt loose sight of the much larger picture and immonent danger we all face as Americans, if he sides with Hamas and their terrorist supporting Palestinaian people. And before you tell me I know "not all muslims are terrorists". But they all read the Quran right? Just something innocent for yall to ponder.
Oh ya, have to congradulate quickly the World Junior Canadian hockey team and there gold metal win over Sweden yesterday. Hey, theres a good idea, get the UN to fund an Israelis and Hamas set of hockey teams and let let these guys duke it out on the ice, (indoor arena of course). Just a bit of humour in amongst all this drama.

Chris

January 7th, 2009 5:43 am ET

YES...

Let us remember that

ISRAELI ELECTIONS ARE ON FEBRUARY 10

no doubt political manuevers are in the military actions on this one.

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 5:49 am ET

Akiva,

I just want to know the truth.

If CNN claims, No Bias – No Bull, then they should report the facts only, not a slanted agenda. If CNN makes a mistake then they should admit it openly!

My parents told me all my life that, “the truth equals freedom”. All these false statements in disregard to honesty makes me think that my son will never have the “freedom” that is described in our constitution which should be facilitated in our democratic system.

So, words can hurt and ruin many lives. CNN holds liability and should take it serious.........That's all

Nona

January 7th, 2009 5:54 am ET

Nick-Canada, I agree 100%. Every nation has the right to secure its borders and protect its citizens. Hamas is a radical Islamic terror organization that wants to start by eliminating Israel and end with eliminating the rest of us.

Did you see the latest from al-Qaeda, all outraged over the attacks on its brother Hamas? It would be funny if it wasn't so sick - they're actually blaming Obama - andObama isn't even in office yet! How ridiculous is THAT?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/06/gaza.alqaeda/index.html

cubfan

January 7th, 2009 5:57 am ET

Hamas and its allies have lost this war. Hamas’s fate was sealed when IDF cut thru Gaza like warm butter and laid siege to Gaza city. With no way to resupply its fighters and none of its allies willing to open up a second front Gaza city is helpless in its attempt to hold off the invaders. The Hamas fighters have only two options left, surrender or die. Many have realized their fate is sealed and are choosing to surrender.
Throughout history there are virtually no examples of an army that is under siege, surrounded and comes out victorious. The British fell at Yorktown in their only defeat of the revolutionary war, the Nazis fell in Berlin, the Trojans at troy, Carthage fell to the Romans, Confederate surrender at Vicksburg, and the list goes on and on. Once a superior military has laid siege to your city it is over. The tactics have remained the same for centuries and the results speak for themselves.
Hamas only hope is to make it to Obama’s inauguration and pray, I suspect the IDF have figured this out and will continue to press forward thru Gaza city like lighting. The Bell Tolls for Thee Hamas

Rod

January 7th, 2009 5:57 am ET

Nick-Canada,
Remember when we Bombed mosques in Iraq because they were piling Weapons of Mass Destruction in mosques? well we went there and found non. There were no WMDs.
the Truck the Israeli army bombed and showed as a truck carrying qassam rockets was a truck that had oxygen tanks.

the schools that were bombed today did not have any morters launched from them.
I just watched the Israeli TV ch 2. so sorry your argument is not correct.

talking about the Quran promoting violence is not true. this is just a very popular way to attack muslims. The statement "not all muslims are terrorists" is the same as saying "not all jews are terrorists" and I do not accept any of them because it implies the majority are.
and i challenge you to show me the accurate numbers of muslims who were killed by jews and christians and compare it to numbers of jews and christians who were killed by muslims and you can start 1500 years ago or 10 years from now whichever one you want to pick.

"All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants, and even their beasts." This was the religious opinion issued by Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, director of the Tsomet Institute, a long-established religious institute attended by students and soldiers in the Israeli settlements of the West Bank.
Do you want me to show you verses from the Torah that talk abut killing women and infants and even animals and trees?

Nustra

January 7th, 2009 6:00 am ET

what is occupation
can somebody tell me what "occupation" really means?
i have been hearing that term for long.

if i recall, Israel pulled out of gaza in 2005 and let the west bank alone except Jerusalem (for obvious reasons i mean, there is no Jew / Israel without Jerusalem)
please someone tell me what occupation is?

in my mind, i think Israel is being kind to an organization that has sworn to exterminate them.

Nona

January 7th, 2009 6:08 am ET

Nustra –

Occupation means the existence of Israel.

As long as Israel exists, the extremists who use the word consider Palestine to be "occupied."

Nick-Canada

January 7th, 2009 6:11 am ET

Nustra I'd agree. Occupation other than of course your job, would be like Nazi occupied Poland during WWII, they were occupying a country or land area not formerly run by them, taking over sometimes by means of force. It can either be a good thing or bad thing. Hamas occupied Palestine, bad thing, Isralis occupied Palestine good thing (for now). Nazi occupied Poland, bad thing.

cubfan

January 7th, 2009 6:16 am ET

Hamas is full of crap that 40 people died in that UN school. The entire school is still standing and has a one ten inch hole in the side, there is absolutely no blood and the women were milling around like nothing happened. The European media is a bunch of morons who are being duped by a bunch of liars who have already lost this war. To kill 40 people the entire structure would have had to collapse, human beings are not that easy to kill.

Nick-Canada

January 7th, 2009 6:16 am ET

Ya what Nona said,

Rod

January 7th, 2009 6:18 am ET

Nona,
Do you think the Palestinians have the right to a state in their homeland, The Right for self determination and the right for the refugees to return to their homeland?

and Yes I believe in Israel's right. I hope for an answer that has a "Yes" of 'No" somewhere in it and hope that i do not get and answer that means nothing.

Nick-Canada

January 7th, 2009 6:19 am ET

I'd have too agree with cubfan

Nona

January 7th, 2009 6:21 am ET

"Occupation" is a euphemism, a sanitized word that means "destruction of Israel," not just used by extremists but also by anti-Israel sympathizers in their public relations spin.

Kinda like saying "using the restroom" instead of "taking a piss."

Rod

January 7th, 2009 6:23 am ET

Sorry guys
Yes there are 40 people killed in the schools. The report was aired on the Israeli television ch2
I guess Israeli TV Ch2 is reporting for the favor of Hamas.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 6:26 am ET

Nick-Canada

How much times did you read the Quran?

i did read it and the Quran says not that we should do terror!
if you read it carefully it says that it is goog to beleve in Allah
and it says that it is not good to beleve in other god's
But also it say we should not blame or punich others
it says that to punich or blame others is only the bussines of Allah!
it says that we all are humans and we have not the right to judge about humans because we are not better!
it say's that we are not better then Allah and it says that only alla knows the true and thats why we cand judge other humans!
it says that people which know about Allah and dont join this religion are stupid and are woerse!
but its not oure bussines to judge them!!

so this is writen in the Quran if you read it you will see this after only a view Suras

so i am not a muslim and had read the Quran!
this means in the view of a muslim that i am a bad human.
but if it is an muslim he knows that he cant blame me!
because thats only the bussines of Allah

so if you talk go and inform your self only a littlebit before you talk ;)

what i agree with you...
it would be better they play hockey then kill each other !

About terrorists...
if you watch CNN you will mabe see this statemant from this i think syrian guy...
"Hamas are elected by palestinians"...
So if in your country does elections and choose a partie, we also can call them terrorists in a given case.... would this mean you are also a terrorist? or do you think we have to make a diffrence between politic and civilians? od do you think we should be a bit more crefully who we just call terrorist?

also chavez did say israelians are not a country anymore and he call them now terrorist group... so which terrorists are now the better one?
the israelian terrorists or the palestine teorists?
mabe in your view the side with the better weapponery are the better terrorists? or are the better terrorists the terrorists which are supported by USA ?

why should they be better?
are humans supportet by USA better then other humans?

and on who we wanna listen now ... we can call all each other terrorists ... but is it so simple?

@Ginny
i also want to know the truth
but maybe CNN think that if we know the truth we would go all mad, who knows what have to be hiden?

Nona

January 7th, 2009 6:31 am ET

Rod, yes, I think the Palestinians have a right to a state in their homeland.

Yes, I think they have a right to self-determination, but not a right to destroy or terrorize Israel.

And no, I do not think Palestinians have a right to take personal property that they abandoned. I also do not think the vast majority of Palestinians are refugees. The definition of refugee is "a person who flees for safety or refuge, especially to a foreign land, as in time of political upheaval, war, etc." The vast majority of Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza were born there and never "fled" Israel. By the same token, I don't think American Indians can claim the right of return of their ancesteral lands that they lost in war, the Bolivians can claim the Chilean territory that they lost in war, the Mexicans can claim the return of Texas that it lost in war, etc.

Akiva, I am happy to read your views about what the Quran says. I have read parts of the Quran, and I happen to agree with you.

However, Hamas does not: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsvqcp4aWF8

Rod

January 7th, 2009 6:34 am ET

Nona,
just for your information there are many Jews who have human values and they are against occupation. they do believe in the right for palestinians to live in peace in their own state and believe in their right to return to their homeland. and these are not "anti-Israel sympathizers" they are Good Jews and many of them are Good Israeli Citizens

Not answering my question about The palestinians rights will not change anything. Just tells me that you are not the moderate that I was hoping for.

Nona

January 7th, 2009 6:36 am ET

Hunk, conversation got heated in other threads. Things get heated sometimes and emotions run high, but it doesn't serve much purpose. I'm trying to maintain the sane tone that's prevailed here all night in hopes that each side might be able to relate a little better to the other and so that the conversation is actually a discussion rather than a shouting match.

Do you have any interest in doing the same?

Nona

January 7th, 2009 6:37 am ET

I answered your question, Rod. It just wasn't the answer you wanted.

Nona

January 7th, 2009 6:38 am ET

Rod, Hulk, I have questions for you:

Do you think all Jews should be killed?

Nick-Canada

January 7th, 2009 6:38 am ET

Rod
Sure there is reason too believe Jews and Christians have killed more Muslims over the years. Im not saddend by this. It was'nt a Jew that flew planes into a free country's way of life, it was Islamic Muslim terrorists who are snakes, which makes me have zero sympathy.

Hunk

January 7th, 2009 6:48 am ET

Thank you ..... its was not heated it was quite and very constructive .... but calling things by the name is honesty for me ....

It is a character assassination ..... without any doubt.

its the truth i speak if not you tell me ... simple

Mily

January 7th, 2009 6:48 am ET

Why is it that when Israel hist a school and kills people inside whom the whole world knows Hamas is using as shield the whole world is outrage but no onw no one is outrage when the Palestinians put their own children in danger and send them with explosives to kill Israeli civilians. Why? Why? No one says anything? Why?

"According to the Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, in the al-Aqsa Intifada, Palestinian military folk have used children as "messengers and couriers, and in some cases as fighters and suicide bombers in attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians." Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) have all been implicated in involving children in this way, see Convention on the Rights of the Child. The issue was first brought to world attention after a widely televised incident in which a mentally handicapped Palestinian teenager, Hussam Abdo, was disarmed at an Israeli checkpoint.[6] The youngest Palestinian suicide bomber who blew himself up was Issa Bdeir, a 16-year-old high school student from the village of Al Doha. He blew himself up in a park in Rishon LeZion, killing a teenage boy and an elderly man."
Since the beginning of violence in the Al-Aqsa Intifada in 2000, 29 suicide attacks have been carried out by youth under the age of 18.
Since May 2001, 22 shootings attacks and attacks using explosive devices were carried out by youth under the age of 18.
Since the beginning of 2001, more than 40 youths under the age of 18 were involved in attempted suicide bombings that were thwarted (of them, three during 2004). "
"

Nick-Canada

January 7th, 2009 6:49 am ET

Akiva
Maby they don't use the word "terror" but you then must agree that it does call for Muslims to kill non-Muslims, Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life. Islam means "submission" Islam is not compatible with freedom and democracy

Solomon

January 7th, 2009 6:49 am ET

–

"Occupation means the existence of Israel".

Nona
wrong .
occupation means wars ,and down the road bye bye Israel.

cubfan

January 7th, 2009 6:50 am ET

Rod the Media is liberal even in Israel. No one in the Media wants this war to continue, they are all a bunch of flower children. There might have been another school that was hit but the one they aired in the story on CNN had no casualties just a couple of old shoes and some scraps of clothing. Nowhere near the carnage you would expect to see if 40 people got torn apart. Hamas needs to do a better job of staging there crime scenes and planting evidence.

Mily

January 7th, 2009 6:51 am ET

Why no one cares about how for 8 years the Israeli people have been under rocket attacts from Hamas. Why no one cares? Why everyonte acts like if is no problem?

"March 24, 2004, one week after capturing a bomb in the bag of 12-year-old Abdullah Quran, Hussam Abdo, a 16-year-old Palestinian (who initially claimed he was 14), was captured in a checkpoint near Nablus wearing an explosive belt. The young boy was paid by the Tanzim militia to detonate himself at the checkpoint. IDF soldiers manning the checkpoint were suspicious of him and told him to stay away from people. Later, an EOD team arrived and by using a police-sapper robot, removed the explosive belt from him.[20][21] Hussam explained that he was offered 100 NIS and sex with virgins if he would perform the task. He said his friends mocked him in class.[22]

On May 29, 2004, The New York Times reported Israeli allegations that the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades were using children to recruit classmates as suicide bombers.

One child, Nasser Awartani, 15, of Nablus allegedly recruited four of his classmates, one of whom was claimed by the Shabak report on Awartani to be Hussam Abdo.

On June 16, 2004, two girls – aged 14 and 15 were arrested by the IDF for allegedly plotting a suicide bombing. According to an IDF statement, the two children were recruited by activists from Tanzim (Fatah's armed wing), guided by Hezbollah.

I wonder why no one reports this. If I can get it off from the internte any news againcy can correct?

Nona

January 7th, 2009 6:53 am ET

Solomon, occupation means war simply because Israel exists, right?

I'm still waiting on answers from Hulk and Rod, but I'll ask you what I asked them:

Do you think all Jews should be killed? What about Christians?

Solomon

January 7th, 2009 6:54 am ET

, "Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life. Islam means “submission"

Nick-Canada.

Yes it means submission to God,any thing wrong with that?

Solomon

January 7th, 2009 6:56 am ET

Nona.

do you think that I will answer a stupid question like that.

Nona

January 7th, 2009 6:56 am ET

Solomon, is the destruction of Israel submission to Gd?

Nona

January 7th, 2009 6:57 am ET

It's a simple question, Solomon. All it requires is a "yes" or a "no."

Why not answer?

Rod

January 7th, 2009 6:58 am ET

yes you answered and i posted before the page was refreshed.

but how come the jews returned to Israel most of them never had a property or any connection to the land.

your answer contradicts the argument of the jewish historical right in the land of israel and the return to their home land that established and continue to grow the population of the state of Israel. I can see double standards here.

for your information the UN considers a Total of 4,618,141 palestinians as refugees.

Palestinian Arabs fled from their homes during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War for several reasons, including the fear generated by the war, forcible expulsions by Jewish militias, destruction of Arab homes and settlements, and actual or claimed atrocities.

Benny Morris puts the main causes for the Palestinian exodus as:-
"Above all let me reiterate, the refugee problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages and towns and by the inhabitants' fear of such attacks, compounded by expulsions, atrocities, and rumour of atrocities – and by the crucial Israeli Cabinet decision in June 1948 to bar a refugee return."[6]
Benny Morris is a professor of history at Ben-Gurion University

My Answer for your question: I am against killing anyone Jew or not a Jew. I am Jew myself and I am a Human Rights activist and I cannot do like those who have sick hearts and justify killing civilians.

Paul Raj

January 7th, 2009 6:58 am ET

When people vote for a Terrorist organisation, one would expect to live in terror. I am not sure what the fuss is all about. It was sickening to see the palestinians distributing sweets because an Israeli soldier was killed. This is the level of vengeance and hatred that is widespread and gut wrenching. Even before Obama comes into power, criticisms are being levelled at him. I see no prospect of peace in this restless society unless there is Divine intervention which I believe is not too far away. Read the Medjugorge site.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 6:59 am ET

here is this video in whch we find the reason why this international school have must been bombed....

you see the palestinians which fire three motars.

no i as you all...

what do you see?

i ask this because i my self dont know what i see !!!

i see around three guys fiering against something... thats all!!!

who where this guys?
palestinians or israelians? i newn the quality of this video is not better on CNN so we only can guess...

so let us guess this are palestinians fiering at israelians what would of corse legitimate why they bomb the school if if the so called terrorists are outdoor!

dont let us gues that that this maybe are isralians which are fiering at civilians!

you may say the school is not totaly destroyed there is only a little hole in it...
so can you tell me now when they did this vido?
was it before the israelians did fire at this school?
or maybe after it?

and then a stupid question...
this helicopter is taping them on such a lowquality video...
they fire three motars at isralians...

why this helcopter only watch it and dont react imeadiatly?
was he waiting that they fire more motars at the own people?
did this helicopter crew enjoy how they fire the own isralic people? or just sleeping in the air?

and now after so much questions ...
who tells us that the mossad dont did this video after the UN said that they wanna do a investigation?

i did not see that this terrorists have been killed and we all dont know why not!!!

in fact this video shows nothing and is maybe just an israelic excuse and propaganda!!

and now prove me the opposide please!

Solomon

January 7th, 2009 7:00 am ET

Nona.

you go find a stupid person like you to talk to asking questions like that show how uneducated you are

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 7:04 am ET

Nick-Canada

Quran dont say to kill all non muslims !!!
just read before you talk because else you do a jocke of your self ... just so simple about what you talk

Hunk

January 7th, 2009 7:06 am ET

Rod and all

There were a post by a Jew defending Hamas, and this what he wrote :

Israel wanted free elections in Gaza. They held them. The EU monitored them. Hamas won. That is called Democracy. Get used to it. Now Israel has created a concentration camp out of Gaza because the palestinians elected the “wrong” side. So they cut the of from food, fuel electricity, medicine, journalists,the means to defend themselves, clean water,currency,trade and now they are destroying their infrastructure,schools,ambulances,universities,hospitals, doctors, professors,telecommunications, and on…… Now you don’t have a democracy living next to you. now you have a massacre, IT IS CALLED GENOCIDE! How dare you mention those little rockets! If it were Americans we’d be defending ourselves too! Get this straight- The Palestinians are Freedom Fighters You are the TERRORISTS! I am a secular Jew from Southern California but I am not a Zionist.

Rod

January 7th, 2009 7:08 am ET

Nick Canada,

sorry your argument is week. killing civilians who had nothing to do with something is not an excuse and this is a genocide.

Anyway your claims are similar to the radicals who want to kill jews so you are not different.

anyway i will leave you with this report if this does not make you think and your heart shake then i feel sad for you

Forty one people are believed to have died and dozens more wounded when the Israeli army targeted an elementary school in Jabalya in northern Gaza Tuesday.

The United Nations said hundreds of people had moved into the building to shelter themselves from the ongoing hostilities.

Majed Hamdan, a photographer with The Associated Press, rushed to the scene shortly after the attacks. At the hospital, he said, many children were among the dead.

“I saw women and men, parents, slapping their faces in grief, screaming, some of them collapsed to the floor. They knew their children were dead,” he said. “In the morgue, most of the killed appeared to be children. In the hospital, there wasn’t enough space for the wounded.”

“There’s nowhere safe in Gaza. Everyone here is terrorized and traumatized,” John Ging, the top UN official in Gaza said.

“I am appealing to political leaders here and in the region and the world to get their act together and stop this,” he said, speaking at Gaza’s largest hospital. “They are responsible for these deaths.”

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 7:09 am ET

At CNN we see how the israelians show is a tunnel in the near of this school.
Its a hamma tunel to smuggle weapons...

what exactly do you see?
a tunnel?
or a hole in the ground?
was it a tunnel to smuggle weapons?
or was it a bunker for civilians?

was it a tunnel just from one end in the school to the other end?
or a tunnel to egypt?

did they walk ith the camera through this tunnle?
or did they just show us a hole in the ground?

what are thoese picture telling is?
do they contain any usefull information about truth?

Nona

January 7th, 2009 7:11 am ET

Gee, Solomon. Anyone who abhorred genocide would have a very easy answer.

Like Rod, who said: "I am against killing anyone Jew or not a Jew."

Nick-Canada

January 7th, 2009 7:12 am ET

Solomon
Ya a god who's behaviour is an example too all Muslims and "cannot be criticized".Right? Now if Mohammed had been a man of peace, let us say like Ghandi and Mother Theresa wrapped in one, there would be no problem.But, Mohammed was a warlord, a mass murderer, a pedophile and had several marriages- at the same time. Islamic tradition tells us how he fought in battles, how he had his enemies murdered and even had prisoners of war executed. Mohammed himself slaughtered the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. He advised on matters of slavery but never advised to liberate slaves. Islam has no other morality than the advancement of Islam. If it is good for Islam, it is good. If it is bad for Islam , it is bad, there is no grey area or other side.

Nona

January 7th, 2009 7:15 am ET

Akiva - the video is official IDF video from its Web site. the first rocket is hard to see, the second and third rockets are very easy to see. I thought it was odd that they did not take the terrorists out too but they were being aimed at a school,and until this week, IDF hasn't fired into schools even at risk of its own population. Fortunately, unlike the Hamas government, the Israeli government does a great job of securing its citizens with an alert system and bomb shelters on almost every corner. Hamas uses its tunnels to store weapons, not as bomb shelters for its citizens and does not provide them with a safe place to take cover.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 7:15 am ET

Nick-Canada

its getting amusant how you search for reasons against Quran!

its sad how you are supporting a religious war while you forget that we talk about human lives !

Nona

January 7th, 2009 7:17 am ET

Hulk, many Jews are not Zionists.

I asked you earlier but maybe you didn't see – do you think all Jews should be killed? What about Christians?

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 7:17 am ET

Solomon,

Yes, social dictation is a great synopsis for the war subject “occupation”.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 7:29 am ET

Nona

so you ave good eyes :)

which uniform did they wear?
which kind of weapon did they fire? you know also israelis can fire motars ;)
when they did this video ... before they did know that the UN will investigate this or after it?
and the question why they did the terrorists run away ... because they are terrorists or because they are israelians which work for mossad ...
tell me with your good eyes where these terrorists, terrorists or where thise terrorists israelians fom mossad in closes of palestinians.. which did this video after they did hear that the UN will do a investigation?

prove it to me that this video is not propaganda!
prove to me that they did this video not after they did hear that the UN will investigate this!

i mean if on this video is a time showed ... in now days 7 year old children everywhere around the world can fake such a timestamp

and i say if this is a fake its very poor done

i saw better fakes in the iraq crisis
they did show us satelite pictures from large prepared armys by saddam they did show us mobile laboratories fot chemical wepons...
they did know every thing very well
... and today we well know all was a fake ... the satelit pictures was fakes
the massdestruction weapons we also not found until now and so on

but the video quality in the iraq crisis where happily 10000 times better :)

so what can we beleve now if we see such a video ?

Nick-Canada

January 7th, 2009 7:31 am ET

Akiva
I live in the west this "holy war " I support, in the end and in the big picture has every bit to do with my human life, one in immonent danger, especially if Barrack takes side with Hamas and there terror supporting Palestinian people. One small step for man, one giant F'n leap for Islamic terrorists.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 7:44 am ET

Nick-Canada

you dont have to tell that you support a holy war
if we read you, i think, we see very clear how you hate islam and bring up every standart prejudice against islam, and if you would read the Quran only one time, i guess you self would begin to laugh about your stupid arguments against Quran

read it one time carefully and then bring up your own arguments against Quran and not all this standart arguments which you did hear from "your" christian extermists.

and about what is affectin you...
what do you think is affecting all this death children which are not able to discus here free and over internet?

Brandon

January 7th, 2009 7:46 am ET

HI LYNNE!!

I JUST SLEPT FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS....AND JUST FINISHED CHARGING MY LAPTOP TOO.. IM HAVING A HARD TIME READING ALL THESE BLOGS! AND WE HAVE A LOT OF NEW ONES ON THE BLOCK ..

WELL,AMAZING THAT THE IDF HAS FINALLY SHOWN THAT VIDEO ( HAMAS FIRING ITS ROCKETS ) IN THE VICINITY OF THE SCHOOL..DAMN!! ...WHOS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE KILLINGS NOW HUH...SOLOMON AND CO...??

AND TO MR.CHRIS

REGARDING THAT DATAS AND NUMBERS FOR LOANS TO ISRAEL..CAN YOU GIVE US A LINK?? I WANNA READ...THANKS..

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 7:48 am ET

Come-on people!

This is not a Holy War – it’s a Money War!

At least address the issue in the right state mind………………………

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 7:51 am ET

Wow, Brandon,

ARE YOU YELLING AT US?

Nona

January 7th, 2009 7:54 am ET

Ginny, you gotta be kidding. It's a war against terrorists. Support Hamas all ya want, but it's a radical Islamic regime that will kill you when it comes knocking on your door. Just like al Quaeda. What about radical Islamic terrorists do you not understand.

Yes, the deaths on both sides are terrible. Seems like somebody besides me would be asking, with all those tunnels for smuggling and storing weapons, why doesn't Hamas have a few to protect its innocent civilians and children and elderly from the so-called murderous Zionists. Like, "Gee, maybe if we built some shelters, so many of our kids wouldn't be killed during war." But nooooooo ... they prefer dead babies to parade before the cameras. THEY'RE TERRORISTS!

And, uh, notice how Solomon and Hunk refuse to say that they DO NOT think that all Jews and Christians should be killed when asked directly ...

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 7:56 am ET

Akiva,

Your video is from Oct 2007?

salutmiddleeast

January 7th, 2009 7:58 am ET

I am very concerned about humananitarian crisis in Gaza.
thanks god because setting up humanitarian corridor
see my blog at http://salutmiddleeast.wordpress.com

Hunk

January 7th, 2009 8:00 am ET

Brandon,

Why the IOF didn't send thier brave soldiers to nail the attacker but instead they fired from distance and killed this much and destroyed the school,

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 8:08 am ET

Nona,
I totally agree with you on the insane terror, death, and hate. But what I'm saying is it stems from the greed of "money" (or other words, land, power, heritage, etc.) justified with some Holy doctrine. Nothing from God is evil, no matter how good it's disguised. Get me?

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 8:09 am ET

Brandon
Caps lock should be somewhere on the left side from your keyboard ;)

Ginny
Its a war about the ground, the land, the money, against civillians wich life at this land and ground
its a war against people which are not thinking the same as israel want that they think

its a ar aginst supressed people which have no right to exist in the eyes of israel.

its a war full of disinformation... full of fascism...
its a war which israel try to legitimate with videos that show us nothing informative or proved!
its a war with with highTech weapons agains LowTech weapons or stones
its a war which kill so much civilians in a such short time as we did not see it even in the war of iraq.. or in the war between chechenians and russians
its a war with terrible psychology!
its a war with nazi methods against poor supressed people!
and when we read here we see that it is also a war by christians and jews against the islam which they call also terror!

its a war full of poor nonsens which israel use to legitimate this massacre!
and its a war full of jockes by israel when one official speaker of them say something and a bit later a other israelian speaker say the opposide

its a war by israel which nonstop try to full us and the whole world with unproved information and lowQuality videos which are telling nothing to us!

its a war by people which had learnd all the methods from hitler and which use them like dump children which did not theyr homework

once again where is the international press which beware us from disinformation which beware us from lies of both sides?

its a war from people which think we all are so dump and beleve everything... i guess they are so smart that they also beleve we would beleve that the world is qubic if they tell this to us

Nona

January 7th, 2009 8:11 am ET

Thanks for your clarification, Ginny. Not sure I'm totally on the same page, but I understand your train of thought better.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 8:17 am ET

Ginny

this vide they did show us today on CNN they did say this wideo is proving to us that israel had really a reason to fire at this school

but now i also saw the date of this video and i cant say if youtube is correct or CNN was correct

so once more what is this video telling to us

can we see the reason why they did fire at a school?
this video is geting more and more confuse

i did search and found it because CNN told that Israel did put it on youtube and that this should be the reason why they had to fire at this school
but now i am not very shure anymore about what they did tell on TV or about what they are telling us in internet?

may you see when and who did upload it ...
i think only one thing is geting true ... we can discus about this video as long we like and will never prove anything with it

so just ignore and forget this video its useless !!!

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 8:23 am ET

Your welcome Nona...

I just think if you strip away the layers and layers of all conflicts- the end result is greed of the "wants'. Then with the exchange market today those "wants" are communicated through the value of money. If it can't be converted – then there is no fight for it. Seems simple to me............

Thanks for being honest.

Nustra

January 7th, 2009 8:32 am ET

well,
if end of occupation mean the obliteration of Isreal, then, that is not going to happen i can tell u.
you see, silent as it seems there are a lot of people that sympathises with Israel, many people are ready to fight on their behalf. not everyone is anti-semitic.
its a pity that people in europe don't realise the ultimate dealings happening here.

this is my stake:
those civilians in Gaza are but pawns in a big chess board. the main players are iran, russia, usa and Israel.
whenever iran want to detract attention from its nuclear involvement, ship in a war head from russia or stuff like that, they try to keep Isreal busy, and the only way they do that is thru hamas and hezbollah. most members of hamas are not palestinians but militias from around the arab world.
i think, and i do hope the reason isreal engaged on this war is to completely obliterate hamas military wing in preparationfor the war against iran next year. u don't want someone shooting rockets when u are fighting the persians. i do wish that Israel succeeds indoing that, only whn hamas military is removed will there be peace in the ME.

those complaining about the women and children dying are not only short-sighted but ignorant.
inthe arab world, there is no such thing as civilians, everyone is a militia. just days ago, a woman killed 40 in irag. and children of war is common from afghanistan to somalia.
it is also absurd that pple think violence doesnt bring peace...actually it does, tht is why Venezuela has not attacked the USA. a big gun must maintain law and order.
my sympathy goes to the "civilians" in gaza, but my support goes to the Israeli soldiers, this hamas nonsense must stop, otherwise, 2 years from now, we will be doing the same thing.

Fanny

January 7th, 2009 8:34 am ET

Dear American Jew

It looks like you have never been in Israel I suggest that you do
to leave in an area seraounding by only Arab Nation that on Every
Friday at their musks pritch to killing of Jews and destroy Israel
and you could here it from the Iranian leader .
You had some clou during Sept 11, The Islamic world do not
hide their opinion about their desire to destroy Israel Can please
let me know how a nation like us can defend hersef

Fawad Ali

January 7th, 2009 8:34 am ET

Finally, Americans are waking up, But they are very few……

We are all Gazan
Cindy Sheehan

My eyes are red from crying as I write this.

The images of bloody babies and maimed children and mothers and fathers wailing in pain are too much to bear for me.

Today, the defense forces of Yahweh’s “Chosen People” bombed two UN refugee centers. The schools, which Israel knew were being used as refugee centers (the UN was idiotic enough to give the GPS coordinates?) were demolished, dozens of innocent Gazans killed and Israel makes the convenient claim that Hamas was using the playgrounds as rocket-launching pads, which has been denied by the UN.

Mr. “One President at a Time” famously said: “I am not against war, I am against dumb wars.” Even though he has resisted commenting on the horror being perpetrated in Gaza right now, we know what side he is going to weigh in on, as when he was in Jerusalem in July, 2008 and told Israeli president Shimon Peres: "For most of Israel's 60 years, you have been deeply involved in this miracle that has blossomed,” and while in Sderot, in Southern Israel, which is, as most of Israel is, built on Palestinian land, he affirmed Israel’s right to defend itself from the very weak Hamas rockets. Mr. “Only One President at a Time,” we know you love Israel and get that you long ago sold out to the American-Israel Political Affairs Committee and the US/Israel imperial-military cabal, but no Palestinian baby has fired rockets from Gaza.

I am here to tell Obama, that war is not dumb: IT’S EVIL! All war is evil. From the war on poor people of color here in American streets to the genocidal wars of aggression against Arab peoples waged by America and Israel, all war is completely, absolutely, incontrovertibly and atrociously evil. Until Congress and the Knesset and respective administrations come down off of their muy macho and extremely racist perches of death and destruction, we have no “hope” at all for any kind of profound and positive “change.”

George Bush is a lame duck idiot who has always supported death and destruction and welcomed both Republican and Democratic allegiance to the war machine. He is finally leaving and we are overjoyed, but should we celebrate an incoming administration who feels it’s okay to comment its brains out about the economy, but when it comes to sticking up for the helpless sitting ducks in Gaza he cops-out with lightening speed and amazing alacrity.

I am sick, sick, sick of babies, children and other innocents paying the price of greedy and bloodthirsty governments. I feel a deep sense of helplessness at the carnage as many of my colleagues and much of the “peace” movement wants to give the incoming war-monsters a “chance.” BULLSHIT!

At the rate Israel is slaughtering Gazans, hundreds of more will die and thousands more will be wounded when Doctors have no medicine or supplies; and tens of thousands are frightened and starving while Obama remains silent. Silence is complicity and if we follow the lead of our misleaders, we are complicit also.

What can we do? Tax time is coming up. Your taxes have been paying for death and destruction since you started paying them, no matter how old or young you are. Do you sleep peacefully at night knowing that your hard earned money is going towards paying for killing Gazan babies? Iraqi babies? Afghan babies? I rarely sleep peacefully at night anymore, but not because I fund the US/Israel war machine.

I am going to call on the supervisors of the City of San Francisco to divest of any holdings or investments in Israeli companies. The violent apartheid of all Palestinian people must stop and a fair and humane solution must be economically forced with mostly white Israel and it was with South Africa. You can start a similar movement in your own city.

Our protests must be organized and smart to force our elected officials to finally do the humane thing. Most of our federal elected officials are bought and paid for by AIPAC which has seemingly unlimited resources and influences much legislation in our government to be pro-Israel.

How many babies must be massacred before we get righteously outraged and decide to carry the moral water for this fascist government and speak with one voice crying out for peace?

When Gazans are being systematically killed by American made bombs dropped from American made planes and being strafed with American made bullets shot from American made helicopters, we can do no less.

Brandon

January 7th, 2009 8:37 am ET

AKIVA

JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU READ EACH LETTERS THAT I POSTED...GOT IT??

Nustra

January 7th, 2009 8:45 am ET

Cubfan
i agree with u, i think this hit on the school is extremely exegerated.

first, the palestinian authorities said 44 died, then it went to 10, 15 and now 40.
earlier, they said the hit was near the school, then its the school and so on.
c'mon, Israelis ar not dumb, they can't just go and hit a school like that.

i think hamas is telling some pple what to say. staging crime scenes to get international sympathy....
all these tells me that Israel is hitting them where it hurts, and they, like hezbollah in '06, is looking for a truce.
i do hope the UN will give this conflict more time for Israel to achive a little if its purpose. otherwise, these pple will die in vain and more will die in 2 yrs time because hamas will provoke again.

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 8:45 am ET

Like FDR said, "The only thing to fear, is fear itself", and I will add, "the money it will take to conquer it".

goodbye everyone – this is my first time blogging here – it was fun!

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 8:49 am ET

Nustra

dont talk such dumb things to us!!!
we are not al jews or americans!!!
we also think when we watch TV or listen to propaganda!!
you say "inthe arab world, there is no such thing as civilians, everyone is a militia"

so i tell you about israel...
"Men serve three years in the IDF, while women serve two."
so what now ... i say we use same right for all people and humans
so i try to agree now with you...
and i use the same right for all people
so now i have to say all israelians are militant !!!
and if i agree with you i have to say that in israel are not civilians lifing!!

so this are official informations about israel army...
and the official israelians say the same about them self as you do about all the arabs

so if i totaly agree with you i can say its OK to kill all militants and this means its OK to kill all israelians

but comeon ... i cant really agree with you !!!
its never good or legitime to kill ALL of what ever they are !!!
this is what hitler was trying!
so do you really try now to legitimate what hitler had done to the jews?

i disagre now with you sorry
it was a very short minded comment of you!!!

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 8:59 am ET

Nustra

...and i cant get this information sadly
but you will tell and prove it to me...

how many years have palestinians to serve in theyr official army??

Nustra

January 7th, 2009 9:01 am ET

akiva,
u were wrinting with so much anger that some of your words were incoherent.
but i understand you differ with my statement about civilians and militias in the arab world.... let me explain.
women and children are not excluded in militia activities in the arab world, i gave exmple of female suicide bombers and ther are others women that confessed to ploting such against iSRAELIS in the past.
i think you already know these.
serving in the military is different from militia if u know what i mean, in Israeli – Palestinian conflict, it is not uncommon for a patient to strap himself with bombs in hopes to kill Israelis.
u see, this women and children thing will always happen, in any conflict te first victim is innocence, if an operation is halted because women and children will surfer then it doesn't make sense.
ask urself, did hamas consider women and children when it ignited this war?
don't u think death of women and children are part of their grand plan in this conflict?

Nustra

January 7th, 2009 9:12 am ET

Akiva, (sorry 4 starting ur name in lower case aerlier)
again Palestinians have not served in army because there is no Palestinian state, there never has been. even before in the intl community agreed to bring back the Jews to their historicall land, that place was state-less, it was controlled by Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan.

now the aim of Palestinians is to form a state, that is good, but how can u achieve that with violence and hatred. history has it that Jordan and other arab nations have been very hostile to the palestinians in the past. u propably know about black september...where palestinians even ran to Israel for succor......so why hate only Israel.

like i said, hamas has no interest in peace, and if they are disarmed, peace will have a chance.

Abiye Bobmanuel from Nigeira

January 7th, 2009 9:23 am ET

Nothing,except deaths will be achieved by violence. I pity the psychology of the children on either side of the divide...taught to hate the other as soon as they can speak a word limiting the room for tolerance and peaceful coexistence. I fear this region may never see peace as the Palestinians are pawns in the hands of their much perceived arab brothers who only exist to push hatred and anti-zionist agenda rather than help a seemingly weak Palestine. If one can't give drink to the thirsty they hardly can help them build a house. From Oman to Iran billions of dollars is being made from the sale of crude. A percentage of thsee monies could be earmarked yearly to help the struggling Palestinians get a better standard of living than suppying them with rockets which propagate disproportionate killings along the divide.
When you train up a child to become a suicide bomber there is hardly any sensible person on the planet who would shed a tear in grief of the trainer when you meet your comeupance.
Palestinians have a right to exist and a state in which to do so, but so must the Israelis, in peace and not rocket threats.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 9:31 am ET

Nustra

so you say all arabs are militans?
i mean all? ... do you put all arabs in one pot?
can we do the same to israel?

this extremist view this totalary way of thinkink as the same troalary as hitler did about the jews ... so
from here if i speak to you i have to speak to all israelians?

so let us make differences ... you talk about a official army and compare this with a little intifada?

let us stay official ... you say a official army which kills children in pampers, with HighTech weapons is more legitime then a supressed intifada which have to hide and to buld rocked by hand ... as the israelians tell to us?

so you say this palestine inofficial army contains all this babys ? ... how much babys did walk over to israel to bomb jews?

... let us talk about plans and planing...
how long did israel plan this invasion or occupation... or as we see around the world this massacre?
i dont know really but israel told us they planed it for month!
and israel did show us the city which they had buit to do theyr training ... so what do you think they did build this city in a half second ... sure israel is so smart and is able to do buid a city from now to morrow ;)

and if this plan was so smart...
did they really plan to kill all this dangerous suicide bombing babies ?
i think i remember that other people in past had similar plans ...
wasent it hitler hich did plan to kill all jews and all jewish babies ?
so you try to tell me now that israel plans in the same way as hitler did?
i see now why you think this war is so legitime and why it is so legitime to kill all this militant babies?

now how did israel this smart plan?
the israelian seecret service mossad is one of the most powerfull secret services!!!

so let us see what oter secret services did
they did use satelite to to find the ememies!
they did use satelite to take pictures of hiden bunkers by saddam under the ground!
with this satelites they did konw where the bunkers where and what was in it!

and they did bomb thoese bunkers precisely !

and now you tell me that the mossad one of the most powerfull secret services is... what? ... what you try to tell me now again?

that they cant use satelite to find bunkers or tunelsystems?
or that they cant handle modern hightech weapons with laserpointing systems?
or that they dont know what??
how to handle such weapons?

so if this is really true what you try to tell me we all should be very aware ... and not only the arabs
if israel cant handle the weapons they should be disarmer imeadiatly!!!

or do you try to tell me now that whole Gaza is build on one big hole which you call different tunnels and bukers?

is it that why israel have to destroy everything and not only precise the terrorist system under the gound?

i cant get what point you wanna make!!!

and you ask about the plan of hamas, a inofficial army which fight with home and hand made weapins, the plan to let all this children die for theyr propaganda?

so i ask you about the plan by isreal did they really need 6 month to plan how they can kill all this babies

so what is the difference between a militant intifada and a official hightech army which plans to kill all babies women and inoccent men?

is there a difference?

or is the point that you try to make, that both sides are just terrorists ?
so you try now to tell me really that the israelians are a terrorist group or what is your point?

sure you will tell me as smart as you are ;)

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 10:03 am ET

In the old days, soldiers faced each other on a battlefield to prevent civilian deaths. I don't see that now. Do they care that civilians will be hurt while they hide their weapons among the civilians?

Nustra

January 7th, 2009 10:13 am ET

Akiva,
i thnk its dumb to argue with u so i won't. and u can be as smart as u want to be i don't care.
if u think the purpose isreal went on offensive is to kill women and children, then u are seriously retarded.

like i said, every conflict takes women and children that's the way it is, unfortunate, but life goes on.
the size of gun used in war does not matter, be it intifada or incursion, if it kills, it kills.

i have not used the word terrorists in my previous posts so i don't know where u got that from.

like i said, the casualties are regrettable but the operation is good for the overall good.

and i don't expect u to agree with me, but u don't have to insult me. it just shows hw shallow u are.

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 10:14 am ET

Israel has the right to exist without worrying about missiles. The people of Gaza have the right to exist without worrying about weapons stashed in their populated areas. Instead of weapons, why not make or buy machines to produce a product and sell in the world market so the people of Gaza can have a higher standard of living.

Professor

January 7th, 2009 10:29 am ET

GLeigh,

I want to ask you a question:

If you were the Jews unarmed living in Gaza.... and your enemy the Palestinians have the one of the largest army surrounding you accross your borders. If they were every time they like they can attack you and massacre few hundreds of your civilians?

Would you accept the world to tell you you cannot arm yourself to defend and protect yourself?

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 10:48 am ET

Professor – are you a professor of bullshit? There is a big difference to defending and protecting one's self and launching rockets aimed into a sovereign nation. Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel. Egypt hates Hamas; Jordan and even Fatah quietly want Hamas to get a spanking. Hamas is a terrorist organization, plain and simple – just like Al Quaeda. It needs to be destroyed accordingly. Unfortunately the Gazan people are taken hostage by Hamas. Their wonderful insight got Hamas elected, and now they are paying the price.

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 10:49 am ET

Free Gaza – KILL HAMAS!! IDF all the way – we support you!

Abiye Bobmanuel from Nigeira

January 7th, 2009 10:52 am ET

Professor, what do Palestinians need more gun or improve standard of living?
Secondly, you can't be the aggressor as well as the victim.

Tom

January 7th, 2009 10:58 am ET

There will never be peace in the Middle East as long as you let the terrorists live. They must be hunted down and killed. If there is a ceasefire Hamas will only use it to reload and launch more attacks on the innocent civilians of Israel. The people of Gaza voted to have the Hamas terrorists rule over them. Let the bombs rain down on their heads! They are not innocent victims. They deserve their fate. There must be no negotiations with terrorists.

valkyrie22

January 7th, 2009 11:08 am ET

The Israelis are about the stupidest people I have ever met.they are blinded by their own fanaticism. They are clever, shrewd but not really Intelligent. Almost retarded by their own refusal to accept what a global society is and that only they can be God's chosen people. So if one your kids walked into your living room and said " Daddy loves only me. I am his favorite and I have the right to inflict suffering on you if you don't agree. How do I know that? because I cut off part of my penis and that means I have a covenant with God that is special". What would you think of a kid like that? Stupid Right?

valkyrie22

January 7th, 2009 11:11 am ET

Perfect example here is Kevin. Another Brainwashed Zombie who puts his own fanatical ideas before human beings. Thank you Kevin good timing.

Nustra

January 7th, 2009 11:14 am ET

Kevin,
well said.
u see, not everyone here knows the details. hamas have humanitarian and military arm. the humanitarian arm is involved in civil jobs and that led to their election in gaza.
but their military arm is mostly controlled by the elite force of iran. most hamas militants are not palestinians, they were recruited to cause problems in gaza.
moderate arab nations including egypt and Jordan wants hamas silenced and they are wishing Israel succeed.
but most commentators here don't know, they just see images of women and children and they shout. i didn't see that many shouts about irag.......bloody anti-semitists.

by any standard, with Israeli arsenal, a 12 day conflict in such a densely populated area for 600 deaths, i think Isreal is being very fare.

hw nay countries will call and sen txt messages to families to flee. funny enough the press will not carry that.

CS

January 7th, 2009 11:20 am ET

Kevin, Israel is a "Terrorist organization" Just last night CNN confirmed that Israel broke the cease fire first. That's right. Before the firing of any rockets into Israel. Two months ago, Israel invaded Gaza, and killed 7 people. Then tightened it's grip on Gaza's ports, so that no food, medical supplies or water got through, and as a result, nearly 300 Palestinians died. Is starving people, and invading their country to kill, not terrorism? Let me guess...not if you're Israel right.

You are the professor of bulshit.
Retarded if you ask me.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 11:27 am ET

hey censorshiper ... which moderate my last comment ...

i can handle critic .. let it go through... this are international facts!
and i will take the critic and hope on a constuctive concens and i wanna hear that the both parties say about this facts

you can delete this coment at the place or let it go throug as you like
thanks

Brandon

January 7th, 2009 11:38 am ET

NUSTRA AND KEVIN

WE ALL KNEW THAT THE SILENT MAJORITY OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD SYMPATHIZES WITH ISRAEL...DEMONSTRATIONS AGAINST THE ISRAELIS ARE ONE SIDED AND FEW...WE HAVENT HEARD OR WATCH ANY DEMONSTRATIONS FOR THE CASUALTIES AGAINST HAMAS FOR THE ROCKETS THAT FELL ON ISRAEL...

ITS PRETTY CLEARED THAT THESE ARE JUST PROPAGANDAS FOR THEIR OWN MISTAKES....OR LETS SAY STUPIDITY...

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 11:38 am ET

Professor – I would be working with other world leaders to find a way to bring prosperity to my people, not shoot at others. I would ask for financial aid to build factories and hospitals. I would build products to sell to Israel and my other neighbors. I would be begging the UN for monitors, not rejecting them.

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 11:38 am ET

CS – For the last 5 years Hamas has lobbed rockets over into Israel. So much for breaking the cease -fire huh? Hamas' charter calls for the destruction of Israel. As Nustra says – 600 casualties in the most densely populated area of the world, with Hamas using human shields and storing weapons in mosques, hospitals, universities, and schools – that is pretty darn great.
Hamas teaches its children to dream of the day where they can blow themselves up along with innocent civilians. Hamas is even the pariah of the Arab world. I feel for the people of Gaza, with such filthy scumbags in their midst. Defending Hamas is akin to defending Al Quaeda which is probably what people like CS or valkyrie would do.

Saudi

January 7th, 2009 11:42 am ET

The white house charters
The WHITE HOUSE values ===== (confront violence with violence.)
The WHITE HOUSE way of life === (confront terrorism with terrorism.)
The WHITE HOUSE Justice ===== (confront the weaks with power.)
The WHITE HOUSE solution === (confront Palestinians with Israelis.)
The Americans are the taxpayers for all the above!

• Mr. Presedint, you promised you will put an end to the lobbyists influence in the way the US is run.
• Mr. President, the Middle East policy is the first crying for the change, unless your promises exclude the Jewish lobbyists.
• Mr. President, the cost is high and the human suffering and miseries are only getting worse and worse.
• Mr. President, we outside the US are also hoping for the changes you promised.
• Mr. President, we want you to see closely for us also and not just seeing us through the Israeli binoculars.
• Mr. President, make the USA to be good at earning friends and not as it was good at making enemies.
• Mr. President, the key to your success on this is being Just and fair and treating all as human with the same feelings and special needs.
• Mr. President, we in the middle east have our reasons to view the Middle east situation and US treatment as in this link http://saudisolutions.org/USinIRAQ.htm
• Mr. President, US successes effect us outside the US too, US discoveries and inventions helped us too, and we feel the admiration and gratefulness to America, Our Islam teachings tell us " whom they don’t thank people don't thank Allah".
• Thank you America for the good things you gave us, and America please be fair and just in the middle east conflict, safe lives and money, Save the money for since and technology and prosperity for all.

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 11:46 am ET

Saudi – I saw this on the other blog site. Copy and paste. Perhaps there is too much distrust, name calling, finger pointing and hate for that part of the world to have peace and a higher standard of living. Perhaps the grand leaders of these countries can learn to live together and cooperate as neighbors to help their people and those people in countries around them. We'll see.

miriam

January 7th, 2009 11:50 am ET

CS, if that is how CNN comfirms 'Israel broke the cease fire', it proves that you shouldn't trust CNN.

In just the first week of the cease-fire in June 2008, Hamas allowed 5 rockets to be fired into Israel and Israel didn't respond.

CNN thinks the 'current conflict began on Dec. 27th'.

Soon someone will be saying it started tomorrow.

Brandon

January 7th, 2009 11:53 am ET

HUNK

THIS IS MY REPLY TO YOUR COMMENT DATED January 7th, 2009 800 GMT...

WHY? BECAUSE THE IDF KNEW THAT ALL HAMAS AND ITS MINIONS ARE 100% COWARDS...LIKE FIRING THEIR ROCKETS FROM A DISTANCE..TOO...AM I RIGHT?? WITHOUT PINPOINT ACCURACY AND LANDED TO CIVILIAN HOUSES AND SCHOOL BUILDINGS INSIDE ISRAEL....

AND BY THE WAY..ALL IDF ARE BRAVE SOLDIERS...THEY ARE ALL INSIDE GAZAS MAIN STREETS AND EVERY CORNERS TO FLUSH OUT HAMAS...

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 12:12 pm ET

The failure to understand – or worse, to understand but not to acknowledge – the fundamental difference between deliberately targeting civilians (Hamas) and accidentally killing civilians in the course of self-defense (Israel) reflects moral obtuseness at best and outright bigotry at worst. It encourages those who deliberately employ the murder of civilians as a means toward achieving “moral equality” with their more humane enemies in the court of public opinion.

Nustra

January 7th, 2009 12:12 pm ET

Miriam,
that was wonderfully said.
am really supprised how biased a media like CNN can be.its like their cooperate policy is aligned against Israel.
i smelled this when Ted Turner said in 2007 that iran should be allowed to have nukes. maybe somebody has been getting some oil dough.

CNN keep saying the conflict began on dec 27th, clearly neglecting the reports of dozens of rockets fired on xmas eve into Israel. every of their correspondence is against Israel....

it's sick.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 12:14 pm ET

my last comment is still in moderation or censorshit i try to formulate it a bit otherwise may it will come through with the next try....

Pavan

January 7th, 2009 12:17 pm ET

Watch CNN regularly... its unbiased.....

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 12:25 pm ET

Although I am not a huge fan of Fox News Channel, I have to admit that CNN has a pretty big bias when it comes to Israel. It has been known for some time.

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 12:28 pm ET

Hamas – The Most Trusted Name in News.
Ooops – I meant CNN.

Saudi

January 7th, 2009 12:28 pm ET

THERE IS NO NEWS MEDIA THAT IS NOT BIASED. BUT SOME ATTEMPT NOT TO BE, AND THEY CLEARLY APEAR WITH TWO FACES .

ALJAZEERA IS OPEMLY BIASED AND THEY ARE PROUD OF IT.

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 12:33 pm ET

Saudi- do you watch the Al-Jazeera game-show “Kill The Zionist Children”? Or are you a bigger fan of the “Al Aqsa Martyr Gameshow – The Price (of a wife) is Right. Personally, I am particular to the upcoming “Real World – Gaza” on Hamas MTV.

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 12:36 pm ET

Saudi – Is your skype name “Alalalalalalalala!!!”?

Saudi

January 7th, 2009 12:55 pm ET

Kevin

US and Israel are the dinosurs of the 21st sentry along with other european supprting dinosurs dominating earth one way or another, the colonial rules are over and history, the remaing is the Israeli ocupation of the pestinians terotiries and is the cause of all troubles.

The only way to change the equation is by heavenly power ( hopfully metirite from space on the western himoshere) starting with the WHITE HOUSE to put an end to the opresion and urogance done by those dinosiurs . only then justice and peace on earth can be acheived by the defernt humanbeings who have learned the leason and horrible experiance .

Nustra

January 7th, 2009 1:06 pm ET

Saudi,
ur previous post illustrates most jihadist desire to see america exterminated.
am glad u have come to realise u can't achieve it.....(only by heavenly force u say)
also, it is fullish for SOME muslims to with the death of all jews, whn will u pple learn. ur prophet muhammed lived alongside the jews, other jihadist never succeeded in such attempts why will hamas think theirs will be different?

wake up folks.....

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 1:08 pm ET

Oh – I'm sorry – I'm not fluent in the language of bullshit. I'm sorry, we should all look to Saudi Arabia or other Arab nations as the markers of democracy and progressiveness in the 21st century. I forgot, is this year's new burka fashion show sponsored by DKNY? What's this year trend in burka styles? Yeah, Western society are truly dinosaurs right – I forget, how many Nobel Prizes have been won by Arab societies? I'm hearing an echo! Oh, and Israeli "occupation" is the source of "all troubles" – yeah, we should ignore the fact that Arabs declared war on Israel multiple times and Hamas has the chartered goal of destroying Israel and driving the Jews into the sea.

i thy to bring it in a other way again and i will maybe have to split the question :(

thats about fredon of speach here :(
....

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 1:16 pm ET

Nustra

first i dont mind if you write my name in capitals or not its ok and we are ove that that we have to fght about such nonsens if you like call me what you like ;)

also i excuse my self if maybe not everything what i write is gramatical 100% i am not a native english speaker so excuse me please and try to be patient with me

if i say this to you this also dont means that i am automaticaly a Arab or even muslim
i am not!

…let us get back on topic…

you beginn now to call at historical rights of israel …
i had allready many discusiona at mayplaces about this and it makes me tired to do history lesons to so much israelians which know theyr own history so well what the rest of world only can cry …

so i dont really wana be a history teacher !
and i am sich of that topic about historical rights :(

i try to shorten it a bit and just post some links about that to you
may you will take the time and read a view things about history …
these sources are maybe not the very best … but they are also not very wrong ;) so maybe its a good reading for you…

(in hope the rest will come throug censorshit....)

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 1:17 pm ET

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel .. some main history about israel
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine … some history about palestine and the history about the region before the bible .. or God, gave any land to any jew or israelian
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gathering_of_Israel about the hebrew fanatic extremists and why they think god gave them land ?
i dont ask who of them ever saw this god !
and i also dont ask if you bleleve that even one arab saw once Allah
if we use same richt for all you can answer thiy to your self as you like
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917 .. how arabs whave wellcomned the jews friendly and what hapened
users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%20Balfour%20Declaration%20and%20its%20consequences.html … a larger view of the same
and here the absolut overkill ….

(in hope the rest will come through censorshit by free press...)

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 1:18 pm ET

http://www.robincmiller.com/articles/hanna1.htm
“hebrew work only for hebrew” …. think about that!!!
and keep in mind #The leader of german fascists# was ther still in his "pampers" (near to) … and the third Reick with did say “german work for german workers”
so let us think from where #The leader of german fascists# copied this fascist slogan

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 1:19 pm ET

and now help me that i dont have to think that this dont sound a bit fascist before and this before fascism was popular in germany
and help me now that i will not have to think that #The leader of german fascists# and germans was a bit like in love
because we have here some sayings…
“similar will meet similar”
and
“what is bantering each other loves each other”

now get carefully if you talk about historical rights!!!

let us keep as escence in mind…
arabs gave palestine as friends to jews
let us keep in mind the population in palestina did start where this personificied god was unknown to jews and this land was far away from jews
so you wana get historical rights ?

do you know for who this rights are speaking if de dont try to hide facts?

think twice … we not all eat blind what some propaganda machinery wanna let us eat
we inform us self before we speak great words

i am against fascism

to me it dont matter if fascis is hebrew or german
fascism is fascism and have to be condemed!!!

so … now take a little bunch of things you have also to face.

have a good appetite

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 1:19 pm ET

Akiva – there is a difference between not knowing English well and writing in the word-salad that you are. For crying out loud- try making some sense before asking someone to respond. Trying to decipher your point is like attempting to clarify logic to a toad – it ain't gonna happen!

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 1:20 pm ET

ok that was my question ....
hich i had to discensore :(

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 1:21 pm ET

It seems that since Israel became a country again, there are those who only care about continuing the fighting and killing. They don't care about the well being of the children in Israel or Gaza or anywhere. They don't care about paying homage to God who created "mankind" in his image. Pray like them or be killed. Hopefully these extreme viewpoints are not widespread. I'm not sure what religion(s) God likes most. I'm pretty sure he said not to kill.

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 1:26 pm ET

GLeigh – I agree that he said not to kill:
Unless you believe in the Islam God who gives many reasons to kill.

Saudi

January 7th, 2009 1:30 pm ET

Refer to who speaks you language and can make you understand if you want to understand.

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/yusuf.asp

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 1:34 pm ET

I can post about the violence of Islam as well:
http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/son_of_hamas_founder_rejects_islam_and_hamas/

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 1:36 pm ET

Have you ever noticed that almost all terrorism the world over involves Islam? I mean – you have Islamic violence in India, Saudi Arabia – Al Quaeda attacks on the US, Islamic bombings in the UK, Indonesia, Spain, and the Middle East. You don't see Tibetans causing terrorism, or Buddhists advocating violence, or even Mormons funding suicide bombings...What a violent religion!

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 1:37 pm ET

I have a religion and don't really need another one. I already understand good and bad, kind and cruel, love and hate. Those are basic human characteristics. We just have to choose which ones to go with and try to find the higher qualities of God, not the animal instincts that are hard to overcome. Hopefully a lasting peace can be found so that as the human race we can move forward and can pay homage to God. I think he'd like that.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 1:45 pm ET

i am sorry again about my bad english

but i dont worrie .... i can understand that you hate many of my questions ... not all questions i have are pro israelic as also not all are pro palestine

but let me ask now a other one...

Its about the right by god for the land of hebrews...

If really gog gave this land to the hebrews...
how did he do it?
can someone show me this contract?
i mean the paper wich is signed by this personified God?
i am very interessted in it !!!
and there is a other question in my mind...
there are other religions and they can also say theyr god gave the land to them ...

so do we now have get which god is the only true one?
so if we have to ask us such questions ...
isent it in a way a religious war by hebrews?

and if we think about that ...
do we have to search the religious fundamentalists only under the arabs?
or do we maybe also have to ask if the hebrews are also religious fundamentalists?

so what is now better hebrew religious fundamentalist?
or arab religious fundamentalists?

how can we clear this question ?

have we again to wait for a miracle?
have we to wait intil one of the gods will come ans show us a signet contract?

or can we just call both sides religious fundamentalists?
so we can point at both sides with oure finger

or do we better keep way from this religious rights about land at both sides?

is it better we only look at history ....
so what is this "only history" telling us ?
do we have some contracts between humans?
and if we look at them let us ask what happened with them in history!

what happened betwen arabs and jews?
and what happened between rom and hebrews
and whyt happened with the population before the hebrews where there ?

i just try to get this in a way...
because i think if all are calling for historical rights or religious rights we must take a spot on all this rights !

The Turk

January 7th, 2009 1:48 pm ET

the "democracy and human rights values" of western world has collapsed.. now they are useless idea for poor, blind-folded western masses, tranquilizer of ignorant people to advocate their ill-mannered governments racist, inhumane acts of power over weak and poor countries..

UNSC, useless meeting point of diplomats to spend mouthfull of fancy words for nothing... Puppy organization of the real Evil.. Legitimizer of US Governments political acts of guilt...

Israel was more powerful in the region before the invasion of Iraq.

Iraq was a buffer zone to Iran, one of the oldest and most powerful country in the area for more than 2000 years..Now , the very intelligent presidency of US has removed the buffer.. Israel is now weaker in the area..

Also, there are new types of non-state governing powers which rely on real people: Hamas ( a social and public organization with militia force to protect its people ) and Hizbollah ( much powerful and legitimate )

Hamas is elected governing rule of its people... freedom fighters in fact..

US , ISRAEL and UK led EU countries ( western societies ) control their media and governmental organizations to "brain-wash" their own people to feed mis-informations to the not-so-interested-ignorant-mass-of-people to think thay what they say is always "right". They dont want their masses to "question" the real facts..

Ladies and Gentilmen, You can not cover the sun with swamp..

occupation is occupation, as simple as that..

freedom fighting is not terrorism..

terrorism is "those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants."

which makes US, ISRAEL as "terrorist" as HAMAS or HIZBOLLAH or AL-QAIDA ..

remember : Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, West Bank, Iraq, Afganistan, Panama, Cuba, Bolivia, Bosnia and the operations of US.. the pure reality is as simple as that..

What is told by US, Israel or EU countries is not "universal right" .. it is only an expression of their own interests...

Their way of democracy and human rights are sick.. they only act in a "rightway" if its inline with their oil and capital policies..

Their "right" is a big big lie , a tranquilizer for their ignorant voters to feel themselves comfortable with their guilt.

Enlighten your minds for the "other idea", listen your "enemy", unfold your eye curtains, look at the other side of the page, and use your free mind to see what is "right" and what is "wrong", dont get fooled by your governing liers..

be a human , unite with others like you and act against all inhumane..

killing innocent women and children is a crystal clear crime whatever reason is.

violence seeds violence, hatred seeds hatred, aggression seeds aggression... that is the real balance of the life by nature..

If you want peace? be peaceful..

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 1:55 pm ET

Turk – I repeat what I said above:

The failure to understand – or worse, to understand but not to acknowledge – the fundamental difference between deliberately targeting civilians (Hamas) and accidentally killing civilians in the course of self-defense (Israel) reflects moral obtuseness at best and outright bigotry at worst. It encourages those who deliberately employ the murder of civilians as a means toward achieving “moral equality” with their more humane enemies in the court of public opinion.

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 1:57 pm ET

Does Israel have a right to the land? I don't know. I do know that there are ancient texts that said that they would be there and they are, back thousands of years. I do know that as part of the human race, they have the right to peace. As a female person, it would be very hard for me to live in a land where I couldn't drive, run for office, or own a large business. There are people who create and people to destroy. It is a choice.

Brandon

January 7th, 2009 1:58 pm ET

akiva

ahmmm...your last Question had been censored?? By CNN? are you sure?? seriously..?

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 1:59 pm ET

Kevin
and we dont call terrorism what the early christians did to southamerica?
they slaughtered in the name of god endles indogenics that was no terror?
and we also dont think what they did in europe... we just forget howmany women they killed because they are which?
this was no terror this was just normal and just good in the name of God

so yes we can be such ignorant and call only islam terrorist

we can ...
... but we are not such ignorants
so we have to mind this too and ... maybe we have to face the true ... we are not so much better :(

but in now time sure we are over it ... christians are not anymore so extremists ... gladly !!!

today we more beleve in money :)
so what we do in the name of money?
we sell radioactive milk to afrca because we cant use it here ?
this is no terror ... we talk here about africa so this is legitime or what?
we sell weapons to the half world ... this is also no support of terror?
who did speand weapons to afgahnistan against the russians
or the russians they gave weapons to afgahnistan against who ?
howmuch times we abused them all?
which country did sell chemicals to sadam and iran to do massdestruction weapons?
all thia stuff come from nowhere and not from europe?
who did sell civil arcraft to latin america which was prepared to modify with weapons and also got modified to kill?
slowly i get the point ... we all are holy and no terrorists

but is it realy true ?

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 2:02 pm ET

Goodness creates and evil destroys, and that is the intent of both. Iraq is creating a new government after having a cruel dictator. Countries are trying to create greener ways of producing energy. Docs are trying to create new medicines and vaccines. Those are goodness things. Evil things are pretty easy to spot too.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 2:08 pm ET

The Turk
in many case i agree with you ... sadly ... my on county did much dirty bussines ... we have a white vest ... but we know we are very dirty ... or let me say ... many of us know it :(
but we dont mind ... we have to stay first world so we have to do dirty bussines ....
its oure right :(

Brandon
yes i am sure !!!
but i found a work around i did take out all "h t t p " bevore the "www"
and i did discribe "h i t"-"l e r" instead of calling his name...
else it wil go to the automatic CNN censorfilter ant they will tell you that they will have to moderate it...
this takes like a hour !!!
and then it was deleted and not posted!!
but i found a way ;)

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 2:10 pm ET

Free Gaza, KILL HAMAS!!!!

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 2:12 pm ET

Akiva – I agree. People are predators. That's why our eyes are forward like tigers and not to the side like plant eating animals such as deer. The hope is that we are able to overcome our predator, killing nature and learn to live peacefully. So far, it hasn't worked that way, but we keep trying for it any way.

The Turk

January 7th, 2009 2:13 pm ET

Kevin,

do you dare to think only one second what on earth may lead those people, suppresed deliberatly, killed for fun, prisoned for no reason,with no right to move, no food, no electricty, no shelter , to build home-brew weapons with waterpipes to ignite?..

Do you dare to think that might be a same form of "right to defend" ?

If everyone on earth tells Israel that would be a disaster to attack a city full of 1.5mil people (41% of which are under 12) will be pure murder, and they ignore and send laser guided US missiles and White Phosphourus Bombs over Civilians "deliberatly" what is it then? a right to defend?... if you think it is "right"...it is not mine..sorry...

the discussion here is sided... we are not thinking al the way the same...

the point is, can we all dare to feel empathy for the "other" only one second?

.. than the world would be much better for all...

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 2:15 pm ET

But unfortunately, there are hate-mongering religions such as Islam which promote violence, misogyny, and abuse which stifles the goal of peace.

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 2:20 pm ET

Dear "The Turd" – lobbing rockets at innocent people isn't a "right to defend." Suicide bombing isn't a "right to defend." You claim that those in Gaza have no electricity, shelter, food, etc – but they have no shortage of rockets. What those people should do is replace their government with one that actually cares about advancing its people beyond the status of "human shields" – that would be appropriate. If Israel wanted to deliberately target Palestinians in the most densely populated area on Earth – shitloads more would be killed – it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. The fact that a few hundred are dead in a 12 day operation is frankly proof that the opposite is happening.
he failure to understand – or worse, to understand but not to acknowledge – the fundamental difference between deliberately targeting civilians (Hamas) and accidentally killing civilians in the course of self-defense (Israel) reflects moral obtuseness at best and outright bigotry at worst. It encourages those who deliberately employ the murder of civilians as a means toward achieving “moral equality” with their more humane enemies in the court of public opinion.

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 2:21 pm ET

We all feel badly for the people of Gaza which does cause anger at Hamas who wouldn't stop firing missiles, put them in populated areas, and wouldn't let UN monitors in. Sadly.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 2:23 pm ET

GLeigh
i agree totaly with you jews also have a right to life!!!
but can you also agree with me if i say that they must respect others ?
so i ty to forget it...

but again...
http://www.steinbergrecherche.com/hannabraun.htm
"Hebrew work for Hebrew workers"
is this the way of respect to people who wellcome you and give you land for a country?

i hate that ... but can we be now so ignorant that we dont wanna know thow the hebrwe did thank to arabs?
do we ignore what happened around the balfour-declaration?

so do we ignore how thankfull and respectful hebrew were in past?

OK let us forget all reasons for everything
... anyway who cares about?

let us look again at the massacre in Gaza and things related to now time !

is it legitime to kill babies because they crawl into israel as suicide bombers?
is it ok to spread cancer over gaza today ?
maybe if we ignore also any humanity and any international law

:(

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 2:26 pm ET

Thank you GLeigh. And moreover, Hamas won't allow the concept of international monitors in any proposed peace agreement. Why? Because they want to continue to re-arm, smuggle missile parts, etc through tunnels. They call for the destruction of Israel in their charter, and we are meant to morally equate their behavior with Israel's right to self-defense? Absurd!

The Turk

January 7th, 2009 2:28 pm ET

Kevin.. Kevin, Kevin, oh poor..

you are blind-folded with your hate to the "other"..

can you explain us what is "inquisition" and their acts and rules of engagement during "succesful removal of evil from body and soul" ?

and can you figure out how many millions were tortured and executed during the "reign of Christianity" in europe?

how humanly actions of religion...

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 2:31 pm ET

I'm not Jewish, but okay. I have Jewish friends, Muslim friends too. Israel became a nation again in the forties. Perhaps it's time to move on from that and face now. People in Gaza and Israel don't have to like each other, just learn to leave each other alone. UN monitors, agreements, no violence, whatever it takes. Also watching words would help. It doesn't help when people say they want to wipe someone off the map. I'm not sure how Israel can defend itself and stop the missiles when those missiles are located in the middle of the population without hurting some of the population? It sounds like they're trying, but I think that's an impossible task. I think it's good that outside countries are stepping trying to stop the missile fire. Hopefully it will work and all can co-exist without shooting at each other.

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 2:36 pm ET

Maybe the answer is a twenty foot wall between the two so they don't have to see or talk to each other as long as they don't shoot anything at each other.

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 2:36 pm ET

Turk – I agree – Christianity had its horrible, backward times (and still does). But we aren't in the 1400s. Hopefully, we have advanced beyond that filth and beyond the concept of "human shields" and "suicide bombers." At this moment, there is no peace because the Palestinian leadership – and certainly Hamas – is more committed to the destruction of the State of Israel than the establishment of their own nation.

The Turk

January 7th, 2009 2:37 pm ET

Kevin,

rational people on earth, does not believe in your big stupid lies.

and even there is no one here to learn lessons from a young and violent society who "tested" two nukes on real people..

if it would be Just war, IDF would go in and get them, bravely.

You can spell zillions of lies to blinds and dumb that killing babies is a "right to defend"... like your fathers did in Hiroshima and Nagasaki..

"right and respect" is not given, it is won..

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 2:43 pm ET

CNN again censore me ... so i work around!...

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

ok i see the topic turns on weapons …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTA1w4zP23g
is this legitime by what ?
humanity ? self defense ? international war ?
sure we cant see this at the propaganda machine CNN
but what is about that?
is this norwegian doctor a hama with a hidden rocked?
if this goes on … this dirty war ! … people in gaza will die also if the war is over and all hamas are deth
so if all hamas are deth … what legitimates now that Gaza must die be cancer?
what will be the next reaso delivered by israel ?
maybe more of thoesevideos…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI
… videos on which we see that israel dont kill hamas
videos on which we see that the so called terorists fire against israel while israel watch them silently instead of shooting at them
videos wich show us how israel tollerate how terrorists fire against the own people?
videos on wich we cant see if this are hamas israelians or mossad wich search for excuse and legitimation?
videos on which have no information and only are a fool and try to fool us!
who can say what about such a video ?
its a jocke by israel … in internet they say its from last year … but today on CNN they say its actual
and anyway we cant see anything usefull in it
so what is this ….
i call it fascist propaganda by israel and bad try to fool us !

The Turk

January 7th, 2009 2:44 pm ET

Kevin,

you are right. We are not in pre-historic ages.. we have now laser guided missiles, phosphorous bomb, napalm, depraved uranium bullets, night vision goggles, intelligent munition which first enters the body then exlodes..at least at 1400s the war was Just enough for all..

All I am after is that we should stand up and think, what would be the underlying reason of a person who voluntarily explodes him/herself...?

If we cant dare to question that, we are all lost in dust and debris..

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 2:46 pm ET

I've read a lot of American history and never heard the word "test" referring to the bombs that basically ended WW II. My history books might not be a hundred percent accurate, but "test"? Where did that come from?

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 2:48 pm ET

Turd – first of all – there are strong arguments that Hiroshima and Nagasaki ultimately saved lives because it brought the war to an end prematurely. Further, the Israeli's aren't targeting civilians, as you well know. If they did – there wouldn't be any Palestinians left. The fact that in a 12 day operation, a few hundred are dead in one of the most densely populated areas of earth proves precisely the opposite. Especially when Hamas uses them as human shields and takes pride in it. Again, do you:
(1) Support the right of Israel to exist
(2) Support a peaceful co-existence with 2 states living side by side?

If you answer yes to either of these questions, you are against the philosophy of Hamas. I am looking forward to your answer or lack thereof....

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 2:50 pm ET

And Turd – many people are oppressed and don't blow themselves up. The people of Tibet don't resort to suicide bombing, for instance. There are many oppressed people in this world who don't resort to violence.

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 2:58 pm ET

Hopefully some outside countries will convince Hamas to stop firing missiles and allow monitors in to make sure that the people of Gaza are not abused and there are no more attacks on Israel and Israel can go home and live in peace. Perhaps we have not advanced very far from our cave man years except that we have bigger clubs. I wish for peace for the people of Gaza and Israel. If there leaders are grand and wise enough, they can learn to co-exist. Have a good day all.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 3:02 pm ET

Kevin
do you legitimate Hiroshima?
do you legitimate killing and murdering?
do you legitimate such a genozide or holocaust?
your a very peacefully human
why we dont just waste whole humanity so there will never be war again... a good solution!
can we start with you to make worls wive peace for ever :)
i think now this is legitime... in the name of world wide peace for ever :)

ok ... let us think about hamas...
israel kill babies and hamas will not stop

UN should disaem both !!!
UN should bring peace as in jugoslavia!
UN must imeadiatly controll both sides in the name of peace !
UN must occupie Israel and Gaza !
or UN is a unfais jocke ! makng different right for different people what will end in fascism!

The Turk

January 7th, 2009 3:15 pm ET

Kevin ,

so you mean, nukes saved the lives of Japs, right? oh ok... we believe you..

and answers:
1) No, by international law, the existence of the "state" of Israel is illegal. It is a pirate "state" made up by UN ( which has no right to establish a state ), which is a puppy.org, in 1948. But yes, I support the right of existence of Jews..The land is taken by UK from Ottomans unlawfuly by force and given for money to Ashkenazi ( EU Jews ) and they have stolen the land from arabic tribes living , with weapons. ( ref: historic records )

2) Yes I support and believe that 2 nation state solution is the one and only lawful solution to the crime committed.

US, Israel, UN should accept that If there should be peace, that is the only solution. Israel and Palestine should be a united federal states governing side-by-side for the wealth of their own people, peacefully.

But it is a dream.. US & Israel dont want it. It wont happen..

Israel wants to exterminate all Palestinian people slowly and insistently.
This is their way of solution..

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 3:22 pm ET

Akiva – I can't respond to you unless you write in a comprehensible language. Your writing is a mixture of "jive" and "ebonics" with the undertones of retardation. I don't understand it.

"The Turd" – many historians have argued the use of the atomic bomb in Japan ultimately saved lives on both sides since the war was ended prematurely. You can look it up.

Ok – so you don't support the legitimate right of the State of Israel to exist. That really explains your mentality and explains where you are coming from. In terms of a 2-state solution, the Arabs could have had that in 1937, 1947, and 2000-2001. The Arab leaders never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Israel has always wanted that, but it has been against the principles of the PLO (Fatah) and certainly Hamas. Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia told Arafat that he was committing a crime against the Palestinians when he rejected a 2-state solution at Camp David in 2001.

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 3:24 pm ET

perfect
israel thells there was fire from this international school
with this video they proove it
we all now this video is nothing because it contains no information!
and UN say 99% there was no fire from this school

now how is legitimating Livin this again!
bombing a school
prove it with fakes!
fool us all with such nonsence!
while UN see the opposide!

and we all still beleve that she is not aliar?
and we all still think she is a correct politican?

she did lie to us and lost every reliability
but we ignore that
we dont think that such liers hae to be broght to the inrernational court of justice at Den Haag

she lies a holocaust a genocide and we accept it because she is a jew
but if the germans lie the holocaust we all point with fingers on them and call em nazis

why that?
because we are fair ... because we use same right for all humans !!!

we are so smart

but i am so dumb ... i say Livni have to visit milosevic!
thats would be fair justice to a person which have tha same function as maybe Goebels had in the nazi time

and what we did to goebels ?
i dont know ... did we hang him?

one thing is proved ... she is a nazi only doing propaganda only a stupid liar !

a liar to UN to the world to all of us !
and she support this holocaust

i call for justice !!!

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 3:26 pm ET

Akiva – I have a great suggestion for you:
English classes! Few can understand your irrelevant rantings..

Kelvin Sweeper

January 7th, 2009 3:27 pm ET

"People living in capativity, will always desire freedom" Gaza and Prison sound the same to me. A place in which individuals are physically confined or interned and usually deprived of a range of personal freedoms.

Sheldon Fish

January 7th, 2009 3:31 pm ET

I cannot believe the outpouring of bleeding heart sympathy for the Palestinians.Afterall,they voted Hamas in ! Hamas,a terrorist organization that avowedly refuses peace with Israel its neighbour and seeks its destruction. Hamas that has launched not only rockerts but years of suicide bombers against it! In all wars there are civilian casualties
Israel is doing its best. All these hospital images is pure nonsense PROPOGANDA !In all wars there are civilian casualties! Israel is doing its best to avoid them .Certainly its not in their interest to have them!
Israel should not agree to any truce and MUST inflict a decisive defeat on Hamas or Hamas will be stronger than before.As Kissinger put it the country that doesnt win ,loses and the guerilla force not defeated is a victor.Israel is fighting not only for itself but for the entire Western world :Who are behind Hamas and Hizbollah?Proxies and spearheads of the crazy regieme of Iran..now seeking nuclear weapons.European attempts at appeasement are self defeating. The notion that war doesent solve anything is erronoeus and political ly correct nonsense;look at WWII..... !These people must be DEFEATED or we will all pay the price.Israel,please please dont listen to world "opinion". Finish them off and be done with it!

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 3:34 pm ET

if israel would respect that arabs did wellcome them and theyr plan to do a own country its OK
but israel did push out the arabs of this region (balfour declaration 1917)

and now they tell us how peacefull they were?

so the fault was only be arabs?
never by israel

the arabs did offer co existence
and Israel uset this to practice imperialism

... israelians have a right to life!!!
but if they kant be thankfull for the gift as a country ...
why they not stay where they are ... may in US or in germany or what ever

they all have been importer to israel ... because of what ?

they had to build a majority this was a condition to them, else no israel
so in a way i can also understand what arabs think about them and why they think so
a condition was that they have to live in co.existence
thats why they did push out all others

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 3:45 pm ET

Please read the following.

http://www.thekoala.org/back/2003_SP_2.pdf

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 3:49 pm ET

Again, I ask, how can Israel go in and stop the missiles being fired at them without hurting anyone when Hamas puts them in crowded, urban areas? Israel waited too long to act it seems to me. If Hamas shot 80 at me, I would have tripled it and shot back an hour later. Perhaps this would have ended sooner, the first day perhaps. One solution would be a wall between the two with neutral country guards watching on each side. Sadly, I think fanatics still only want to kill and destroy so this will probably never happen because it might stop the death and destruction. Evil is alive and well on Planet Earth.

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 3:51 pm ET

GLeigh:
I suggest the use of tactical nuclear options to vaporize these Hamas pieces of trash. Sure there will be collateral casualties, but there will be an immediate cease-fire and these filthy terrorist groups would think twice before sending a single rocket over the border ever again.

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 4:00 pm ET

I suggest that the rational people of the world join together, on both sides, and stop the fanatical ones from ruining the world for everyone else. There are rational Jewish and Muslim people who could co-exist perfectly. The fanatics won't let them.

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 4:08 pm ET

You know, I've often wondered what would happen if everyone was the same race, religion, and spoke the same language. I bet we'd still find SOMETHING to kill each other over. Bathers would hate those who took showers. Those who preferred warm weather might hate the "cold" climate people or vice versa. It's odd how we just work so hard to find something or someone to hate.

Bitterjack

January 7th, 2009 4:09 pm ET

How are things going in the West Bank?

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 4:26 pm ET

a guy in washington ...
the tells us about brainwashed hamas
and he still tell us that there were rockeds fired from this school
while we know that 99.9% there was no fire oming from this school
and we all miss any prove by israel of the opposide!
and he talk about brainwashed

whats wrong in the brain of this guy?

jonah

January 7th, 2009 4:27 pm ET

israel is creating a corridor..and then people will still accuse them of 'war crimes'! would hamas or iran or syria or al qaeda do this? not in a million years! its really sad that the jews r locked in this revolving box of violence..today it hamas,tomorrow hezbollah,who knows wot'll come next!

GLeigh

January 7th, 2009 4:46 pm ET

I doubt if it's possible to know the exact location of every rocket fired by Hamas. Educated guesses probably. It's sad to think of the children growing up knowing there is such violence around them. My son was worried about getting chicken after school for a school project. The thought of a missile or bomb never entered his mind – as it should be.

Paulo Mendonça

January 7th, 2009 4:59 pm ET

Hala,

It´s was a great interview with Hamas "Advisor".

Now we know where Hamas style comes from.

Any stupid knows that gaza people is just a Hamas´ hostage.
A diferent type of hostage : They don´t have a place to go.
So they have to stay an die for the purposes of Hamas.

Paulo
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Paulo Mendonça

January 7th, 2009 5:08 pm ET

What´s the price of a Katyusha rocket ?

$1000 on the black market ( 2001) !!!

Hamas and Arab league said that Israel is destroying
Gaza´s infrastructure.

ok totaly different sites let us asume the ORG site is not a jewish propaganda site
what we know ... its in california :)
ok let us look are they linked in a way ? no
but let us take a look at the links
http://www.thekoala.org/links
"Can you handle life, or at least lots of pictures of dead people (o g r i s h. c o m)"
aha ?

you like that ?
does this makes you feel great ?
i understand now why you like genocide war hate holocaust slaughtering and so on .... so your a Hebrew or what?

go ath theyr forum ... full of hate !
is it that whyt you wanna show us about you kevin?
your a hating hebrew who like pics of death?
i see now why you support Israel!!!

we go on to Disclaimer
"We cannot express this enough – WE DO NOT WRITE THE PERSONALS. The personals are an open forum for students to express their opinions and frustrations and do not reflect the views expressed by the Koala."

are you frustratd ?
better go to a psyciater then to slughter children!!!

if you take this as objectife information your ....
ahh i cant find words for what you show us all about your life in intrnet !

Kevin

January 7th, 2009 5:58 pm ET

Akiva – I'm glad you found that site as entertaining as I did. However, your poor command of English makes your points hard to decipher...

ELAS LARKIN

January 7th, 2009 6:00 pm ET

The problem is that Hamas are a group of COWARDS, they hidebehind masks, and they USE the population, to hide, to fire these rockets. The people of Gaza voted this group in.What were they thinking??

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 6:03 pm ET

kewi
look how pitty it is !
i had to destruct all links to post it here ... hopefully CNN block such sources of jewish propaganda

totally inobjective
totaly pitty with links to Death

newe wanna see you or know you ... thats so ugly
where you hang around?

and you are jew...
one whos parents had to suffer under the holocaust?
uhhhh ... poooor ... shame .....

and you are hre ligitimating such things by israel?
uhhhh.... pooor ....

and you wana tel us your not a extremist ?
uhhhh...... shame

no words for you

dont post such propaganda here please!!

move to your hate forum but not here we dont need that after alll
shame shame uhhhh...

no words more for that!
talk to other people with are here with you ... talk to your jew friens of deth ... kep away with such propaganda kevin ... keep on your israel sites please

if more jews as you will come to here ... soon the world will hate you all
sadly!

and dont ever speak about gaza ... your thoghts about gaza are very klear
your thoghts about humanity are very clear !!!
uhhhhh.....
#

Akiva

January 7th, 2009 6:10 pm ET

kevin ...
sorry to all that i post again about that!

until now i told you nothing
i tell you now in my blod is jew blod which had to run for life b3cause what happened in germany
i have lot of muslim friends
so you see i am not arab ... but i dont hate them all

but after this war ... after what happen in gaza
and special after what you post here and what you show us here ....

i would like to cut of every drop of jew blood out of my body ... i feel the same about you as i feel about the German leader in the time of holocaust at 6000 000 jews

never i will be as you never never
your the same as that what we all hate most your a evil !
your a ugly evel driven by hate and frustration

now after you i hate this jew blood in me
i teally would like to die because of shame about you
wuahhhh

brandon360

January 7th, 2009 8:02 pm ET

no really hates arabs if anything after 9/11 people are scared of them, afraid of an ideology that seems to want to kill or dhimi everyone who isn't one of them

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 8:13 pm ET

Dominique thank you!

I just watched the Occupation 101 link you gave. Here it is again.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2451908450811690589

I have read the history books that coincides with these methodologies to regain “Jewish” sacred land, better known as Zionism.

brandon360

January 7th, 2009 8:51 pm ET

if u want to know the real history of israel then read what mark twain wrote about the lkand when he went there, it was barren until the israelis came and made it prosper again.

Douaa from Egypt

January 7th, 2009 10:15 pm ET

I don't know who is reading this blogs and if they are at all effective but I have to write or I will be shocked by these words.
How on earth that all the free world are watching what is happening in Gaza and be this silent, the U.N. coucil did not say any thing and they are delaying their decree I don't know until when what are all of them waiting for, the children are dying with their mothers everyday, didn't you all see the small babies that died due ti israeli shells and tanks and airstrikes, I cried and cried when I saw those photos they don't have human hearts like ours . Israel is saying that it is defending its children and citizens from missile attacks by Hamas but they are doing it the wrong way instead of talking with these angry people and see that they have the right to defend themselves from Israeli aggression and starving their people they are killing everyone without recognizing. they shot a shelter yesterday killing refugees many of them children, entire families are being killed by aiming at houses, where are the palasteniens supposed to go.

Please do something.

God be with them and with us all

Ginny

January 7th, 2009 11:25 pm ET

Yes, I did read about the Israellis land reform, past and present. Reminds me of what the "white-man" did with the American Indians' land all over the US.
Thanks brandon360

Linda

January 8th, 2009 6:26 am ET

OMG, Hezubollah is firing on ISRAEL from Lebanon

Jonas

January 8th, 2009 7:18 am ET

Akiva,
I'm not sure that I understand all of your ranting, but I understand that you have Jewish blood and that you are very ashamed of it. In that case, why don't you join Hamas, tell them that you have Jewish blood but that you are ashamed of it. I'm sure that they will find a way of killing you or getting you killed. All your problems with this terrible infliction will be solved. You could also consider the Arian Brotherhood, I believe they are looking for members and hate Jews even more than you. You could also try Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, Al-Aqsa, Fatah, Abu Nidal Organisation, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and others who hate Jews and want to destroy the state of Israel. I'm sure any of these organizations will accept you with open arms and will help you loose all that hated blood.

Jonas

January 8th, 2009 7:46 am ET

Linda,
Are you surprised? Do you realize that Hamas is now supplying Hezbollah with rockets and are trying to escalate the war? Do you realize that Hamas wants Israel to attack Lebanon and get some more civilians killed? Hamas is very happy that they have managed to dupe the world with their propaganda in Gaza. Do you realize that all these pictures that you have been watching on the international news networks were supplied by Hamas affiliated reporters? Do you realize that Israel is now being blamed by every two-bit politician and that is exactly what Hamas wanted? They now think that if they could get their Hezbollah friends to help them escalate the war, and that the world would continue to blame Israel? When will the world learn that you could never, but never, trust terrorists like Hamas?

Linda

January 8th, 2009 8:39 am ET

Jonas,
Why are you blogging to me and copying and pasting the same message to me on another blog?

Jonas

January 8th, 2009 11:35 am ET

Linda,
Geez! What can I say? I probably wanted you to see it twice!

Rod

January 8th, 2009 5:42 pm ET

GLeigh you want an answer to how Israel can stop the missile attacks?
Please read this and I wish you can stop blaming the victims:

Hamas is a terrorist group, but Palestinians aren't. Hamas does not represent the Palestinians' interests and their actions must not be mistaken with the Palestinians' will. Palestinian people must not pay the price of the terrorist acts that a group of people is commiting.

Nothing justifies inocent victims no matter what side of the border.

It is heart breaking to see that through the years we haven't learn how to deal with hostile situations without opening fire. And those inocents, even children, keep on paying the price for something they have nothing to do with.

No child should ever become victim, no child should ever go through what Palestinian children are going through right now. No child should live undergroud, as they do in Sderot, waiting for the next rocket to hit. No child should be hurt or killed by the hand of hatred or fear.

We must not tolerate terror but we must not fight it with terror. We absolutely must not become what we hate. We must not mistake justice with vengeance.

Only when Humanity overcomes Politics we will have a Peace Treat in the Middle East.

If we want different results we must change our ways, same ways same results, that's why Peace can not move forward.

Gi_Jane

January 9th, 2009 11:19 pm ET

We need to continue what we are doing and its about time to go in and wipe out. We have the right to protect our citizens .

It bothers me so much when the media only shows one side and does not go into the actual reasons. Israel has been defending itself from fanatics and terrorists for just to damn long.

After serving in the israeli army and having a cousin killed in the line of duty. We need to continue until its stops. If it doesn't we will keep it up until someone learns there lesson.

No way should be back down because of any pressure from the us or other countries. We deserve to protect ourselves.

I do not feel that anyone innocent has to suffer but unfortunately , when it comes to the hamas they do not have any sympathy for innocent by standers or even themselves. So we need to do what we need to do to save and protect our innocent civilians as well.

Right on Israel keep it up we have the best damn army in the worl and we shall not be defeated, or brought down.

It will never happen.

My hearts are with all the soldiers and there families be safe and come home soon.