How many playoff games has River's won? How many has Staff won? I'd say Rivers' is better.

Not just on that alone. The guy seems to handle himself well in pressure situations, and elevates his game. Staff doesn't exactly fall apart,but he definitely isn't any better. At least not in big games.

June 19th, 2013, 4:41 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3485Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Killwill25 wrote:

lol @Rivers being better

How many playoff games has River's won? How many has Staff won? I'd say Rivers' is better.

Not just on that alone. The guy seems to handle himself well in pressure situations, and elevates his game. Staff doesn't exactly fall apart,but he definitely isn't any better. At least not in big games.

I dont know who Id call better (PROBABLY rivers at this point), but what I do like about Rivers is that he is a LEADER on the field. Stafford shows no signs of being a leader and it makes me so mad watching it.

June 19th, 2013, 9:29 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

That doesn't really seem to be a fair assessment WJB. Stafford has come through like the Cleveland game with a bum shoulder. And did it again with Oakland in 11 and so on. Playoffs isn't a QB game, it's a team game. He was game against NO, but the Lions couldn't match the skills of NO, or coaching it appears.

Having said that, the team did not play with any heart last year. in 11 they came out hungry and motivated, and gave us something to be excited about. In 12, it seemed as if they'd listened to all the hype about themselves, especially the rookies, and young vets, and then they got exposed.

I have it on good accord that the team in place now, is practicing with some ferocity, that hasn't been matched since maybe 11. We'll have to wait and see, but with the people we have in place, I can see some potential for great things. I just recommend that IF you pray, pray the injury bug stays away.

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

June 20th, 2013, 7:39 am

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4180Location: Davison Mi

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

kdsberman wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Killwill25 wrote:

lol @Rivers being better

How many playoff games has River's won? How many has Staff won? I'd say Rivers' is better.

Not just on that alone. The guy seems to handle himself well in pressure situations, and elevates his game. Staff doesn't exactly fall apart,but he definitely isn't any better. At least not in big games.

I dont know who Id call better (PROBABLY rivers at this point), but what I do like about Rivers is that he is a LEADER on the field. Stafford shows no signs of being a leader and it makes me so mad watching it.

Have you guys watched any SD games in the past 2 years? Rivers is not the same player he used to be. He used to look like the future elite qb's along with Aaron Rodgers....but he is not at that level anymore. I believe it was an injury that started his skid but I'm not sure if I would even call him average anymore.

You guys are crazy thinking today's rivers is better than today's stafford.

wJB....has rivers MADE it to the playoffs in the last 2 years? Staff has. By your previous example that should make him better.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

June 20th, 2013, 8:43 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

regularjoe12 wrote:

kdsberman wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Killwill25 wrote:

lol @Rivers being better

How many playoff games has River's won? How many has Staff won? I'd say Rivers' is better.

Not just on that alone. The guy seems to handle himself well in pressure situations, and elevates his game. Staff doesn't exactly fall apart,but he definitely isn't any better. At least not in big games.

I dont know who Id call better (PROBABLY rivers at this point), but what I do like about Rivers is that he is a LEADER on the field. Stafford shows no signs of being a leader and it makes me so mad watching it.

Have you guys watched any SD games in the past 2 years? Rivers is not the same player he used to be. He used to look like the future elite qb's along with Aaron Rodgers....but he is not at that level anymore. I believe it was an injury that started his skid but I'm not sure if I would even call him average anymore.

You guys are crazy thinking today's rivers is better than today's stafford.

wJB....has rivers MADE it to the playoffs in the last 2 years? Staff has. By your previous example that should make him better.

That may have something to do with losing Gates, LT, and Vincent Jackson, and replacing them with spare parts??? IDK... To me I think that would effect a Qbs ability to perform well. Is it that Rivers fell apart? Or the team fell apart around him? And SD is notoriously cheap. They never spend anywhere close to the cap.

P. Manning and T. Brady would just train up the next guys at the bottom of the roster and take them for the ride of their lives.

Guess Rivers isn't all that.

June 20th, 2013, 2:13 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

BillySims wrote:

P. Manning and T. Brady would just train up the next guys at the bottom of the roster and take them for the ride of their lives.

Guess Rivers isn't all that.

BS

If that were true than Payton wouldn't have had Harrison and Wayne, and Faulk, and all of the high priced talent around him. If that were true NE wouldn't have paid Dillion, Hernandez, Welker, and the various other top paid WRs they've had.

SD doesn't spend money and you don't have talent without money. A Qb is dependent on the talent round him. Rivers would be much better on 60% of the teams in the league.

P. Manning and T. Brady would just train up the next guys at the bottom of the roster and take them for the ride of their lives.

Guess Rivers isn't all that.

BS

If that were true than Payton wouldn't have had Harrison and Wayne, and Faulk, and all of the high priced talent around him. If that were true NE wouldn't have paid Dillion, Hernandez, Welker, and the various other top paid WRs they've had.

SD doesn't spend money and you don't have talent without money. A Qb is dependent on the talent round him. Rivers would be much better on 60% of the teams in the league.

SD doesn't spend money? BS!!! Every team has to spend money.

P. Manning, once Harrison retired, took Reggie Wayne from average to above average. Wayne hadn't done much before Harrison retired.

And Brady is in the process of training up a group of Receivers.

A great QB can train up an average group of WR's and make them special.

June 20th, 2013, 6:28 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12488

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

wjb21ndtown wrote:

A Qb is dependent on the talent round him.

I'm wondering if this applies to Stafford too. Not like he had a ton of talent around him last year....

_________________

Quote:

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June 20th, 2013, 6:47 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4180Location: Davison Mi

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

wjb21ndtown wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

kdsberman wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Killwill25 wrote:

lol @Rivers being better

How many playoff games has River's won? How many has Staff won? I'd say Rivers' is better.

Not just on that alone. The guy seems to handle himself well in pressure situations, and elevates his game. Staff doesn't exactly fall apart,but he definitely isn't any better. At least not in big games.

I dont know who Id call better (PROBABLY rivers at this point), but what I do like about Rivers is that he is a LEADER on the field. Stafford shows no signs of being a leader and it makes me so mad watching it.

Have you guys watched any SD games in the past 2 years? Rivers is not the same player he used to be. He used to look like the future elite qb's along with Aaron Rodgers....but he is not at that level anymore. I believe it was an injury that started his skid but I'm not sure if I would even call him average anymore.

You guys are crazy thinking today's rivers is better than today's stafford.

wJB....has rivers MADE it to the playoffs in the last 2 years? Staff has. By your previous example that should make him better.

That may have something to do with losing Gates, LT, and Vincent Jackson, and replacing them with spare parts??? IDK... To me I think that would effect a Qbs ability to perform well. Is it that Rivers fell apart? Or the team fell apart around him? And SD is notoriously cheap. They never spend anywhere close to the cap.

Judging by your answer the answer to my question is no, you haven't watched many SD games last year...or you would have seen what's obvious. He isn't as accurate anymore, and has become quick to try and force things when he doesn't have to.

Funny how you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about losing key tallent, by want to hold a grudge against staff for having the same thing happen to him.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

June 20th, 2013, 7:19 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

regularjoe12 wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

kdsberman wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Killwill25 wrote:

lol @Rivers being better

How many playoff games has River's won? How many has Staff won? I'd say Rivers' is better.

Not just on that alone. The guy seems to handle himself well in pressure situations, and elevates his game. Staff doesn't exactly fall apart,but he definitely isn't any better. At least not in big games.

I dont know who Id call better (PROBABLY rivers at this point), but what I do like about Rivers is that he is a LEADER on the field. Stafford shows no signs of being a leader and it makes me so mad watching it.

Have you guys watched any SD games in the past 2 years? Rivers is not the same player he used to be. He used to look like the future elite qb's along with Aaron Rodgers....but he is not at that level anymore. I believe it was an injury that started his skid but I'm not sure if I would even call him average anymore.

You guys are crazy thinking today's rivers is better than today's stafford.

wJB....has rivers MADE it to the playoffs in the last 2 years? Staff has. By your previous example that should make him better.

That may have something to do with losing Gates, LT, and Vincent Jackson, and replacing them with spare parts??? IDK... To me I think that would effect a Qbs ability to perform well. Is it that Rivers fell apart? Or the team fell apart around him? And SD is notoriously cheap. They never spend anywhere close to the cap.

Judging by your answer the answer to my question is no, you haven't watched many SD games last year...or you would have seen what's obvious. He isn't as accurate anymore, and has become quick to try and force things when he doesn't have to.

Funny how you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt about losing key tallent, by want to hold a grudge against staff for having the same thing happen to him.

Don't give me that crap. Even with our injury struggles and mental lapses our WR corps is 10Xs better than SD's and it has been for years.

I don't buy that Rivers all of the sudden has developed "accuracy issues." He has garbage players running garbage routes, and a garbage line in front of him. I don't fault him for not trusting the players around him at all. They've proven themselves untrustworthy.

June 20th, 2013, 7:26 pm

Killwill25

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: March 5th, 2009, 8:42 pmPosts: 2411Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

WJB...so if you could choose one of them to lead your franchise, you'd take Rivers?

_________________Just one Super Bowl win before I go!

June 21st, 2013, 12:04 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

Killwill25 wrote:

WJB...so if you could choose one of them to lead your franchise, you'd take Rivers?

For one game? Yes

For one season? Yes

To start rebuilding? No

June 21st, 2013, 12:45 am

Blueskies

QB Coach

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3084

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

WJB has the philosophy that the QB doesn't matter all that much. He's been pretty consistent in this, I (and all other 32 GMs in the NFL) just happen to think he's wrong. This is a QB-driven league.

Stafford might not be a definitive top 10 QB, but he's definitely in the conversation, and given his age, you still have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

June 21st, 2013, 12:55 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lions working on Stafford deal, but have a deadline

Blueskies wrote:

WJB has the philosophy that the QB doesn't matter all that much. He's been pretty consistent in this, I (and all other 32 GMs in the NFL) just happen to think he's wrong. This is a QB-driven league.

Stafford might not be a definitive top 10 QB, but he's definitely in the conversation, and given his age, you still have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

SF is using a day 2 pick at Qb, as are many other teams. Houston picked up Shaub for peanuts, he looked washed up before then. Alex Smith was successful at SF before looking like a dud in prior years. Manning, Flacco, and Romo are nothing special.

You can argue salary all you want... I don't advocate allowing even a mediocre Qb to leave your team once they know the system. You've picked your pony and you're stuck with him. It takes Qbs 2-3 years to learn a system, the player, and to get good at that system regardless. Deciding to switch up Qbs, unless you're a run heavy team, is blatantly admitting that you're going through a rebuilding process that's going to take some time. Most teams can't or at least don't want to afford that, and I don't blame them. But to say that these GMs feel like you "have to have" a top 10 Qb to win is ridiculous. If they did then Flacco, Manning, Romo, etc. wouldn't get their contracts, they would get dumped for the next potential Andrew Luck.