In his brand new op-ed at the NYT, Paul Krugman makes the loudest case yet that Obama shouldn't rush into any kind of big "deal" with the GOP on averting the fiscal cliff.

Liberals have been going in this direction for awhile, arguing two things: Hitting the fiscal cliff would not be a huge catastrophe right away, and the GOP has lost a lot of leverage, so there's no reason to cave to their insistence on everything.

So Krugman tells Obama not to reach his hand out to far:

In saying this, I dont mean to minimize the very real economic dangers posed by the so-called fiscal cliff that is looming at the end of this year if the two parties cant reach a deal. Both the Bush-era tax cuts and the Obama administrations payroll tax cut are set to expire, even as automatic spending cuts in defense and elsewhere kick in thanks to the deal struck after the 2011 confrontation over the debt ceiling. And the looming combination of tax increases and spending cuts looks easily large enough to push America back into recession.

Nobody wants to see that happen. Yet it may happen all the same, and Mr. Obama has to be willing to let it happen if necessary.

Why? Because Republicans are trying, for the third time since he took office, to use economic blackmail to achieve a goal they lack the votes to achieve through the normal legislative process.

It seems like if you closed a number of loopholes....which the Republicans are fully ready and prepared to do....you’d get your tax increase, and not call it a tax increase. Course, then you’d have to do budget cutting, which just isn’t popular with Democratic Senators or Representatives. If they had to go over and tell PBS that half their yearly budget is gone permanently, and the other half will disappear in three years...folks will just fall apart and start weeping.

I`m for that. I say, give Obama EVERYTHING he wants,.. then hang the consequences around his and his supporters` necks. The voters want to see more taxes and far bigger and more intrusive government. So give it to them.

Elections have consequences.

4
posted on 11/09/2012 4:16:01 AM PST
by ScottinVA
(I've never been more disgusted with American voters.)

Congressional Republicans should take to the steps of the capital today and announce they will not oppose anything Obama or the Democrats want to pass. They should make it clear that the Democrats own everything that happens from now until August 2014. At that time the Republicans will come back and ask Americans, “How did what you voted for work out for you?”

Interesting take from the flaming Marxist economist from the New York Times.

I suspect these folks have gotten past their Election Day euphoria and are now sitting down to look at things objectively. They're worried about Obama selling them out, and their fears are justified because he's basically been doing it for four years now.

As I posted on another thread this morning ...

Obama was heavily shielded from a core GOP message in 2012 because it was (believe it or not) verifiably false. The Republican Party has vilified Obama for his support of massive tax hikes, and Obama himself has campaigned endlessly against "the Bush tax cuts," but here we are in November 2012 -- four years into Obama's first term and seven years after Obama began railing against those tax cuts as a U.S. senator from Illinois -- and those Bush tax rates are still in place.

If Obama left the Bush tax rates in place in 2009-10 when the Democrats in control of both houses of Congress and could have gotten anything he wanted out of them, then why would anyone on that side of the aisle think he's willing to act on any principles right now?

Talk about irony. The “47%” are going to shrink considerably in numbers because more and more of them are going to be paying taxes in some form or another ... which means they’re going to be part of the “53%’ pretty soon.

“I`m for that. I say, give Obama EVERYTHING he wants,.. then hang the consequences around his and his supporters` necks. The voters want to see more taxes and far bigger and more intrusive government. So give it to them.”

Then why did we elect republicans to the House? Get the same result with a Dem House.

13
posted on 11/09/2012 4:28:25 AM PST
by ari-freedom
(Election Day should be after Thanksgiving, not right after Halloween)

Krugman is the worst Communist in America and should be exposed as such and ridiculed hourly every day of the year until he dies. He has NO and I mean ZERO credibility as an economist. He is a propagandist and demagogue who advocates doing anything and everything to expand government, no matter how damaging it is. Government is his GOD.

What’s worse, is he is a psycopath and a sociopath. He is a demented, twisted, gnarlish snot-nosed gnome. He eats cat feces for nourishment and drinks dog urine when he’s thirsty. He’s slime. He’s vile. He’s the scum of the earth.

Boehner needs to make all his press conferences and statements open and very public, like from the steps of the US Capitol, to make it harder for the MEdia to cherrypick and distort

“Mr obama, we agree to your plan, if you agree to own the results. We accept the will of the Americans who voted for you that democrats think they can run this economy by raising tax rates in a recession. We disagree. But Let’s roll and may the chips fall. Good night and God Bless America”

"I`m for that. I say, give Obama EVERYTHING he wants,.. then hang the consequences around his and his supporters` necks. The voters want to see more taxes and far bigger and more intrusive government. So give it to them."

Better get your gold and other 'real' assets in place....that will lead directly to hyperinflation.

Good... the end is coming... the faster the better. Let the cuts begin... everything will be slashed before 2014. The CRASH of world economies is coming... our credit rating will be lowered to B. No one... except for the Fed... will ever buy our bonds and t-bills. It is over Kemo Sabe.

Boehner needs to make all his press conferences and statements open and very public, like from the steps of the US Capitol, to make it harder for the MEdia to cherrypick and distort.

Mr obama, we agree to your plan, if you agree to own the results. We accept the will of the Americans who voted for you that democrats think they can run this economy by raising tax rates in a recession. We disagree. But Lets roll and may the chips fall. Good night and God Bless America.

How hard can it be?

Not hard in theory, but when even FR has more people who misquote and rant than people who bother to find the ACTUAL statements, even a better man than Boehner has his work cut out for him.

Mr. niteowl77

22
posted on 11/09/2012 4:41:33 AM PST
by niteowl77
(Getting stuck with other peoples' just desserts good and hard for over 50 years.)

>>>I`m for that. I say, give Obama EVERYTHING he wants,.. then hang the consequences around his and his supporters` necks.

I'm for that as well. I think the GOP should give him EVERYTHING...with the vocal opinion...ON RECORD...OVER AND OVER AGAIN...that they disagree with this 100%...but...it seems to be the will of the people. I think they should allow the vote to go forward then abstain. They should lay out EXACTLY what they think this will do...and let him have all the credit and responsibility.

WHY? Because I firmly, 100% believe the only hope we have is to let if crash...prove the socialist system a falicy...and then rebuild on the other side.

I see no other option other than 1) A fast dive into chaos...or 2) A slow controlled dive into chaos. If you are going to chaos...might as well let the dems take us there.

He says he wants to leave the rates alone except for the top ones. The reason this argument was a sham in the election is simple, almost half pay no tax so they cared not one whit what changes were made to the tax paying side. Whatever votes he syphoned off amongst those paying taxes were gravy. His plan now is to come forward with the same plan and let the GOP go for either accepting it or allowing all rates to rise....he wins both ways. In either case when the economy continues to go off the cliff, he says, and the media parots, my plan was better but the GOP made me accept this “deal” (even though it was his). The voting dopes won’t see the charade and mark my words, the GOP house will get clobbered in the 2014s.

As painful as it will be, give him what he wants across the board and let’s bring this entire sucker down as quick as possible. We can push Greece off the front page.

27
posted on 11/09/2012 4:48:03 AM PST
by Mouton
(Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)

The crash will happen regardless; it is baked in the cake, it is math. But the pere and post crash conditions will lead to either a hard-left Marxist dictatorship, or all out civil war that will look like Bosnia X Rwanda. The very least-likely outcome is a return to govt on a constitutional framework. Lady Liberty is not likely to prevail in a 3-way battle with lions and hyenas. Best to go Galt and move into deepest red asap. That CW2 Cube thing.

I am pretty sure that 3,000 years ago, an ancient relative of Paul Krugman was wandering the streets of Babel muttering. "If only we had built another flight of stairs, the king WOULD have been able to reach into Heaven and touch the face of God."

Paul Krugman is not only dangerously stupid, he is a True Believer. No KoolAid required.

36
posted on 11/09/2012 4:59:15 AM PST
by Bernard
('He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else' - Benjamin Franklin)

Varney had it right on Fox Business. Zer0 will not negotiate. Why should he? He didn’t in the first term, everything worse - and the idiots still re-elected him. So what incentive does he have to give an inch. We’ll go 4 more years without a budget and he’ll rule by EO.

I’m with Krugman on this - Obama’s people CONVINCED the public that Bush’s tax cuts were only for the rich, so let them expire, ALL OF THEM. And then, and only then, will the public find out that 80% of the cuts went to the middle and lower classes

The Republicans should have done that in 2010, but they were too stupid.

And a BIG BENEFIT of allowing the cuts to expire is that it will create some 10 or 20 million NEW TAXPAYERS, because the new rates and lower deductions will reach down that far.

42
posted on 11/09/2012 5:13:39 AM PST
by BobL
(You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)

Here’s how to play it. Let the sequestration happen. It’s in the bill that passed last year. Obama signed the bill. By signing it he owns it. When people start to cry, point out that Obama signed the bill that made it happen. He can’t deny it. His signature is there. Let the tax rates go back up. Yes, the slight majority of us who still pay federal income tax will take a hit, but so will the 49% who don’t because the payroll tax cut will also expire. Unfortunately, the only ones who won’t feel the bite will be the welfare queens with their Obamaphones.

What happens when Obama turns right around and proposes to re-instate the Bush Tax cuts ( now called by the MSM “The Obama Tax Cuts”) for everyone making less than $200,000. Does the House abstain? Or, do they dutifully vote for them?

If they vote them down....will the GOP be then called the Party of Higher Taxes on the middle class?

I agree with you. At first blush giving Obama and the Dems all they ask for sounds great... as a political strategy. But the GOP was given control of the House for a reason. The citizens of the US want some limits on Obama and the Dems-controlled Senate.

So, as much “fun” as it might be to let the Dems hang themselves (and much of the country... elections DO have consequences), I can’t support an abdication of the GOP’s responsibility.

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