Passengers of Thai Airways International (THAI) can expect to be served by younger female flight attendants as senior staff take up an unprecedented voluntary resignation package.

The scheme is the first so-called "mutual separation plan" - or MSP - to be launched by THAI in its 50-year history and exclusively targets female flight attendants aged 45 and over.

The initiative, which has been backed by the airline's union, is part of the management's bid to rejuvenate THAI's brand image and save costs, while giving senior crew the chance to stay on or leave the firm, said THAI executives.

To avoid allegations of sex and age discrimination, THAI plans to make voluntary retirement highly appealing, with flight attendants who have served for 15 years being offered a lump-sum of up to 30 times their monthly salary.

THAI president Piyasvasti Amranand said the MSP would help the airline trim operating costs. Older THAI cabin attendants earn about 100,000 baht a month, while younger colleagues get about 30,000 baht.

I say this for many reasons, none of them having to do with age per se. But the older FAs on every airline I have been on seem to be tired of their job, resent pax, and move slower. Not all FAs, but most. The ones who would jump at this package, at least.

Then there's the issue of FAs being there "for our safety" and there is no way a 50 year old FA is going to be more valuable to the aircraft in an emergency than a 30 year old.

Then there's the matter of pay, where at most airlines, the longer you've been there, the more you get paid, meaning lower pay for younger FAs to balance it out, higher fares for pax for no perceived added value, higher health care costs for the airline, higher overall labor costs during furloughs because the oldest and most expensive stay on, and/or losses for the airline due to the higher cost of carrying a 50 year old FA who hates their job and doesn't perform it well.

I say this for many reasons, none of them having to do with age per se. But the older FAs on every airline I have been on seem to be tired of their job, resent pax, and move slower. Not all FAs, but most. The ones who would jump at this package, at least.

Then there's the issue of FAs being there "for our safety" and there is no way a 50 year old FA is going to be more valuable to the aircraft in an emergency than a 30 year old.

Then there's the matter of pay, where at most airlines, the longer you've been there, the more you get paid, meaning lower pay for younger FAs to balance it out, higher fares for pax for no perceived added value, higher health care costs for the airline, higher overall labor costs during furloughs because the oldest and most expensive stay on, and/or losses for the airline due to the higher cost of carrying a 50 year old FA who hates their job and doesn't perform it well.

What can I say. I hope when your boss finds you're getting old he fires you so he can have a younger less paid employee with fast legs. Some of these workers have given their airline their best years. I would suggest he fires himself and lets young blood into management with new ideas.

Good; if only US cariers could to this; not only would they save on costs by geting rid of costly senior employees, but they'd get better looking F/A's and boy could they use them. Not to mention older F/A's are usually surely and rude and hate their jobs (in my experience). A younger crowd would be more enthusistic and go a long distance in helping customer service perceptions. I doubt this is why SQ is doing it. It seems to me SQ flies mostly males (as with most of the passengers in the world) you cant blame them for wanting more eye candy on a flight Unfortunately we have to deal with Age discrimination crap in the U.S.

Personally id like to see younger hotter F/A in the US, but thats for purely selfish reasons

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):Then there's the issue of FAs being there "for our safety" and there is no way a 50 year old FA is going to be more valuable to the aircraft in an emergency than a 30 year old.

Agreed. Though i personally think that whole "here for your safety" crap is just to make the F/A's not feel like they are inflight waitresses (which is what i think they are) after all how much good will a F/A do if the plane crashes...not much id think.

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 4):Agreed. Though i personally think that whole "here for your safety" crap is just to make the F/A's not feel like they are inflight waitresses (which is what i think they are) after all how much good will a F/A do if the plane crashes...not much id think.

Oh really, I would like to see a waiter or waitresses pull your a@@ out of a burning restaurant.
Here are just some examples of FAs doing their job. The Air France Crash in 2005 Toronto, the USair Flight Hudson River and the the FAs on the NWA Flight Christmas Day. Oh yea my three friends on the UA flights 9/11 that died doing their jobs.

[Edited 2010-01-05 11:48:41]

[Edited 2010-01-05 11:50:53]

Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 4):Though i personally think that whole "here for your safety" crap is just to make the F/A's not feel like they are inflight waitresses (which is what i think they are) after all how much good will a F/A do if the plane crashes...not much id think.

What an ignorant thing to say. I don't know any restaurants that train their waitresses how to perform CPR on a customer who had suffered a massive heart attack, or on a baby who has stopped breathing, let alone insist that they retake their exams every year just to be able to keep their jobs.

Sure, it's not rocket science, but god forbid you ever suffer a heart attack while on a flight, if you do, I can guarantee that your view of these inflight waitresses will change when they potentially save the life of either yourself, or your loved one.

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 3):What can I say. I hope when your boss finds you're getting old he fires you so he can have a younger less paid employee with fast legs.

If I wasn't performing my job as well, I'd expect it.

Not to mention that most people go through multiple careers in their lifetime. Why should an F/A expect to be applauded for spending 45 years at a job they stopped liking 30 years ago?

Please, please, please show me any evidence that a 45+ year old FA does a better job and is worth the extra pay compared to a 30 year old? You can't because most don't. Most do a worse job, and get rewarded with higher pay and job security. It's a backward system, not one I think should be applauded.

There are some GREAT older FAs I've had over the years, and they deserve to stay on and be paid. A merit based system would allow this (and there is no indication that Thai would summarily dismiss high value older F/As). Most of the "older elite" are international FAs who are running their cabin and keep everything running smoothly, or are purser and run the ship, and still love their job and remember why they started flying in the first place.

But I'm talking about the angry, frumpy, should have found something else to do with their lives people that populate USA carriers on domestic runs, keeping young, enthusiastic people from even getting a job. My holiday flying on DL/NW was chock full of these winners. Some surly or apathetic, some providing ridiculously slow cabin service, some simply forgetting to do things their job requires of them, some giving the wrong jacket or wrong drinks to customers, etc., etc.

My take is: if you'd rather be somewhere else, then by all means, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, and stop making the flying experience such a chore...

So its all about attitude or is it looks? At my carrier, some of the best FA's we have are our 30+ year DAL based crews, (some have been here since day 1). They are fun and energetic and still work that hectic Texas-two-step. On overnights they are fun to hang out with and if you've been on one of their flights, I'm sure it was typical Southwest fun. They are also anywhere from 50-60 years old but look and act like they are in their 30's.

On the other hand, I have worked with some young new-hires who lack the maturity and work ethic that some of our older FA's have shown. I have also witnessed younger FA's "flip out" on passengers just as much or more than our older, more mature FA's do. Don't get me started on comparing the two during Medical Emergencies and IROPs.

The point is, its a matter of who can do the job, not the age. The age is simple "window dressing"

BTW- The few carriers that are hiring here in the US, are hiring more seasoned me and women to be FA's. They like their better work ethic, maturity and experience when dealing with the public. Many I have worked with: are retired teacher's, nurses, Police officers, Fire-fighters, military etc. Some have even owned their own businesses at one time, knowing full well about
accountability and serving their customers.

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 4):It seems to me SQ flies mostly males (as with most of the passengers in the world) you cant blame them for wanting more eye candy on a flight Big grin Unfortunately we have to deal with Age discrimination crap in the U.S.

News Flash: Many of us males just want to get to our destination! We have lives!

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 4):Personally id like to see younger hotter F/A in the US, but thats for purely selfish reasons Big grin

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 13):News Flash: Many of us males just want to get to our destination! We have lives!

Many people in the 60's and 70's also just wanted to get to their destination; didnt stop the airlines from only hiring hot young women; can a guy be blamed for wanting the flight attendents to look decent and not like they have one foot in the grave? The Asian carriers dont seem to think theres anything wrong with hiring only good looking F/A's: yet another reason besides poor inflight service, and mean hatful staff, that i always try to choose an Asian carrier to Asia; even if it means not getting FF miles or apaying a bit more. At least theres something nice to look at So im happy SQ is doing this.

I understand the measure given the regional climate but, often the older workers may be more dedicated, more detailed, more loyal to the brand and service nuances, etc. Maybe TG should look at also putting older FA's on promotion tracks that lead to say being a purser, cabin service director, lead FA, FA trainer...

Some of you are just being mean. Believe it or not, plenty of 50 year old ladies are better looking than plenty of 30 year olds. Thai is making a decision for their own business here, but there is no need for some of these negative comments.

Some of us dwell on FA conduct and appearance way too much. Personally I never had a problem. Having done more flying than most people.

Hey cool down this one a little bit, opinions are opinions and should be respected even if you don't agree with them.

If TG wants to reduce their costs by giving everyone over the age of 45 a early redundancy package that is a fair move on their part.

The fact that a lot of their competition enjoys to hire people on time limited contracts with detailed specifics for looks, beauty and behaviour for the same job ensuring that their flying staff remains young and attractive (clauses in the contract about clothes, make-up and weight etc etc is what i am referring to) might also influence their decision but at the moment we dont know that.
What we do know is that TG is doing this primarily to reduce costs.TG is otherwise not the typical SE Asian carrier in terms of age on its crew, they tend to have more older crew compared to MH, SQ etc. And of course compared to competition from the gulf carriers.

Its the eternal discussion about the profession being a lifelong career or a profession you do when your young and beautiful. Opinions seem to be set about this already and there is little point in doing another round about it.

I flew on a flight recently with an all-female flight deck. We should have nothing but hotties up front, retire them at 45 and replace them with 18 year-old cheerleaders who are Miss Teen America contestants.

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 45):I flew on a flight recently with an all-female flight deck. We should have nothing but hotties up front, retire them at 45 and replace them with 18 year-old cheerleaders who are Miss Teen America contestants.

It doesn't have to be that extreme. There can still be some 20 - 30 year olds who have tons of experience. It's not like we will replace them all with the blond chick clones who know nothing.

Employement at any company is conditional on the fact that the employee meets the requirements set out by the employer. If your employer makes age limits on your job then you have two choices; comply or seek employment elsewhere.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):Then there's the issue of FAs being there "for our safety" and there is no way a 50 year old FA is going to be more valuable to the aircraft in an emergency than a 30 year old.

WOW! Still processing this one...... Think of it this way. It's all about maintennance.

One 757 enters service and is meticulously maintained and one enters service and is NOT. Which one would you rather fly on 20 years later? Age is not an issue here, it is about physical condition.

( Now granted I'm male) but I am 48 years old, workout 4-5 times a week and am in excellent physical condition. I have been flying for 26 years and I have been trained and trained and trained. Are you trying to say that if I ( or a female FA) tried to assist you out of the cabin in an emergency you would refuse our help? Not only could I get you to an exit, but I could probably toss you out head first if I wanted to. I also know a few females that could probably do the same. Some chippy who weighs 105 pounds and has 3 or 4 years experience might not react in the same manner.

Thai's decision is about marketing and it is sexist, but they aren't trying to hide that fact. I do not think they are considering safety or the ability to operate in an emergency.

If that were the case, what is next? nobody over 45 years of age can sit in an exit row because a 30 year old pax could open an exit and assist the crew better?

I will give you the point that there are some FA's ( male and female ) who could use a few visits to the gym... but I think your statement is a bit over generalized.......

Quoting Qantas777 (Reply 49):Thank goodness. I say this because this is a service job that one of the criteria should be based on age. God forbid we do this in the USA, we would not want to offend.

This is a service job that should be based on many factors and age is def. one of them. Kick em out when they hit 40 I say.

This is the crux of the discussion. If FA is a service job only then a best by date that expires at age 35 may be appropriate. But I guess then we also need to make sure the crew is all female and be sure to exclude men, particularly fey men!

The alternative view, an official position of the FAA for example, is that this is a safety position. In that case, my feeling is that an older experience crew member is more likely to be able to respond to any situation with the grace and skill gleaned by having been through the situation before. Could be a choking situation, heart attack, anxiety, with recalcitrant IFE system etc. In the case of a catastrophic situation, I value their skills and experience.

I have nearly 3 million American miles, over a million on Delta and 500K on United plus dozens of Southwest segments. I have seen lazy young and old FAs. I've been treated poorly by young and old. I really don't see much correlation between age and service level.

Quoting Tennis69 (Reply 47):If your employer makes age limits on your job then you have two choices; comply or seek employment elsewhere.

It depends if it's legal in your country
In the EU it is not legal anymore except with justified obvious physical fitness reasons (= active Police, Firesquad, Militaries etc) and FA don't match with these reasons.
Because a FA "looks tired" and "moves slowly" is no reason to kick them all after 45!

Quoting Tootallsd (Reply 51):I have nearly 3 million American miles, over a million on Delta and 500K on United plus dozens of Southwest segments. I have seen lazy young and old FAs. I've been treated poorly by young and old. I really don't see much correlation between age and service level.

I agree with you
I'm nearly flying every week AF intra EU and often long haul: there are dozens of "old" female FA very good looking, smiling and happy with their jobs, either female or male by the way...some are grumpy but so are younger ones!!!!!!!!

I believe this obsession about younger female attendant is a shortsighted MTV like reaction where only good looks and being "cool" is important

Age should never be a determining factor for a F/A or any position. Job performance should
be the determining factor for retaining ones position. Being a F/A is not a beauty contest.
Tell the passengers aboard AA flight 331 that their F/A were too old after seeing that all the
passengers were safely off loaded when the aircraft split in three pieces on landing.

Quoting B767300ER (Reply 54):Age should never be a determining factor for a F/A or any position. Job performance should
be the determining factor for retaining ones position. Being a F/A is not a beauty contest.
Tell the passengers aboard AA flight 331 that their F/A were too old after seeing that all the
passengers were safely off loaded when the aircraft split in three pieces on landing.

I can't agree more
You don't buy a plane ticket to have eye candy smiling to you and staring at you in the eyes with a plundging view (= next requirement to be an FA maybe?)
This fashion comes from some airlines and favor a male view on society verging on sexist and discriminating.
Why not ban male FA because they annoy male businessmen wanting to be served by pinups?