I left work today (about an hour ago) and my MPR was sitting around 640k, I only know this because I broke into the Top 20 yesterday. I get home and log on and my MPR is sitting just below 600k. I check my "graph" and my MPR did indeed just drop for some reason. I didn't untrain and retrain anything and I didnt fire a minion. I did however just BS 2 pairs of AG from +9 to +10, anyone know what's going on?

o nO! you found out my evil plot, i stole your mpr and traveled back in time and gave it to my minions...and i thought i would never be discovered... but i guess since you can check and compare are graphs i lose :(

I dropped as well. I was just over 80k mpr then fell to mid 50k ish, fought 500 fights and trained all of that, now I'm barely over 60k, not that I'm complaining all that much, my rewards did go up considering that I've been hitting the same group for a couple of days now. You can see the drop in my chart as well.

Yeah, my rewards are up too, but I figure it's because I'm fighting the same people with 50k less MPR. But I don't really care about the rewards, I had been busting my butt to climb up the MPR rankings and I just lost a huge amount of work...

Sorry, but I am going to keep bumping this until someone offers an answer. The growth graph is proof that MPR dropped, and Tezmac knows his stuff (so I trust it wasn't an untrain or fire-minion scenario). So, I would really like to know what happened here, and Tezmac _definitely_ deserves an answer... If it can happen to him, it could happen to any of us, and I don't think anyone likes random losses of what they have worked to gain.

He hasn't said anything yet, but I was careful to only CM him twice about it. I think the problem deserves to be addressed as well, I just want to be careful to not earn myself a forum ban. I appreciate the support Sut, usually when you question things answers seem to find their way to surface. :O)

I had a similar problem that I documented a few months ago, except mine was a jump in MPR after untraining/retraining with the RoE. It seems MPR wasn't taking into account the extra XP from the RoE correctly.

This is a long shot but try unlearning/relearning a base FB or one strength or something on the minion that was wearing the RoE, that may correct the problem with the wrong MPR being shown.

I'm not taking any more chances with unlearning stuff, well, except for still using my RoE. :O)

None of my stat levels changed after the MPR drop and the amount of exp dumped into each of my minions didn't change either. I think it would be a pretty straightforward check for Jon to compare the current experience trained and the current MPR given to see that there is indeed an error of sorts, whether it be my MPR shown previously or my MPR shown now.

Ok, I trained strength on all 4 of my minions, just a hundred exp on each, and then untrained it. Guess what, my PR went from 620k down to 615k, there's definitely something wrong. Any chance we could get Jon to look at what the heck is wrong with my character????

Well, here's what I think thus far, we'll see if Jon can confirm it or not.

The first time I changed my PR (by adding larger AGs) on the minion that had been using the RoE consistantly for about a month and my PR dropped about 50k, perhaps the differential between the MPR he would have "normally" earned vs the MPR he had earned whilest "RoE-ing."

This second time I unleared and relearned what couldn't have been more than 10 MPR on a different minion that had been using the RoE for about a 4-5 days and I earned myself a 5k drop in PR. Again this is perhaps the differential between the MPR he would have "normally" earned vs the MPR he had earned whilest "RoE-ing.

Conclusion? Adjusting the stats on a minion that has been using the RoE (by either upping equipment or unlearning) causes a drop in your overall MPR?

I guess I shouldn't view this as a bad thing though as my stats remain the same but my MPR drops, thus I earn higher rewards fighting the same opponents with my now lesser MPR.

I don't want to be seen as "abusing a bug" as I've now sent Jon 3 CMs and I've been in constant communication with Sut, our esteemed QB. :O)

I've been playing around trying to find a method to the madness by training small amount of exp and then unlearning. Alas, I have not found anything consistent yet, I may keep playing with the bug to see if I can figure it out, but I don't want to end up screwing up my character. :O)

So since in the last hour or so apparently that I was not on, my pr/mpr dropped like 20k I should untrain something then retrain to get what I lost back? I still don't understand how the value just drops out of no where. Particularly when a person isn't even online and playing. Can someone explain? And what exactly was fixed as this just happend to me sometime in the last 60 min? See my graph on Sixpence.

wow, it seems that this is happening to people that didn't use RoE too, I just trained 2 str and untrained it, from 99300 mpr to 96 k something mpr, and fight some more, back to 99444 mpr, did the train 2 str and untrained it, end up with 98 k mpr. Shouldn't it be like nothing changes at all ? Even if there's changes, it should be 1-10 mpr, not 1-3 k MPR.

I should also state, I'm not going to untrain anything else until this is fixed, as I don't want to inflate my NCB rewards by lowering my MPR. (Although, if the bug is MPR is inlfated, I *should* as I'm losing out on every fight I fight with a larger MPR than normal...)

I'm not totally convinced this bug is totally mixed up in the training. In my case, my pr/mpr dropped without any untraining or training of new spells/stats. Mine dropped between the time I logged off and the time I came back on. It was during an inactive period.

The only theory I have left is that the math on exp gained/spent isn't adding up right, or maybe evenly. Possibly then its complicated with the RoE, not sure after Shades comment. And some feature or self-check recorrects on a random basis and drops the inflated amount. So in rounding out the loose ends, it drops the excess. That's all I can think of. What goes against this is the infrequency of it happening, so I really don't know and I'm just thinking out loud. Call the catharsis police.

Tez, quit putting off your weekend by wasting time on the forums. See ya. =]

(I updated everyone's MPR yesterday when I made the fix, which is why some of you saw your MPR change without training.)

Now, the fix I made appears to have had the desired effect, which means something else is going on since people still see a similar bug. Some answers would help:

- Is anyone able to reproduce this without any intervening battles (by you or someone attacking you)? If not, how many battles appears to be the minimum?
- Is anyone able to reproduce this without a RoE?

Ok, this is getting weird. I started the day with about 160K MPR. I bought a full dose of BA and used my 160. I gained somewhere in the neighborhood of 400K exp across my 4 minions, maybe a little more. I trained all that exp and I gained over 40K MPR. Now, last time I checked 1.2 mil exp only equates to about 27K MPR. My Max Tattoo also grew by almost 100K, this behaviour seems odd. Jonathan, are you still looking in to this? Another thing, I did not untrain any exp, I will do that next and see what happens to my MPR and PR.

I wish I would've paid closer attention to where my pr/mpr was at yesterday. Today:
After fighting exp rewards, all ba, I'm up like 60k pr/mpr from where I was at yesterday. When I made the last post, I had lost ~20k pr/mpr which left me at 299k pr/mpr. Yesterday I had recovered maybe somewhere between 310k and 320k. But now I'm at 373k pr/mpr and that just seems rediculously impossible.

PR and MPR get bloated from fighting opponents with scores above your PR. Only through training and then unlearning ANY amount of exp will your MPR and PR level and conversely your Max tattoo level return to the level they are actually at. For some reason, there is an inflated PR/MPR occuring for NUB, NCB, RoE users and I think normal run-of-the-mill users also. The act of unlearning any amount of trained exp is what triggers the return to status quo from what I can determine. Anyone else care to deliberate?

I'd just like to add mine to the pile of confirmed cases... After training, I had 474k MPR, then after training/untraining 3 ST it went back down its correct position at 456k. It is obviously important to do this every once in a while to keep rewards at a correct point until the bug is fixed... I think. ^^;;;

I'm not sure I understand it yet myself, I just noticed earlier than my MPR was up to 202k.. I trained/untrain EC on one of my E's and now I'm back down to 166k MPR. The only thing I have done is fight my 160 accumed and purchased all of my BA and used it as well.

So total loss or inaccuracy of ~66k pr/mpr.
I believe the previous jump in pr/mpr in the last couple days was due to training over 100k exp at a time. Maybe the larger amount you train, the more inaccurate it ends up?

I haven't changed strats, equipment, fired a minion, or untrained aside from the above experiment. For the most part, I do the same thing each day in fighting and training. Yet look at the chart for the last 5 days.

http://208.186.101.116/directory/graphs/party32974_1_1_5_days.png

It should only go up. There is no reason that pr/mpr should drop like this. Particularly over 60k drop.

It's definitely not dependent on RoE usage.
It's definitely not dependent on anyone having a NUB or NUC.

So in what ways could MPR become inflated?

Maybe the clan bonus is adding to MPR incorrectly?
Maybe wacky time exp is adding to MPR incorrectly?
I dont think it has anything to do with exp gained from winning defensively as I dont think any of us have picked up 50k of MPR from defense.
Maybe it could be the internal calculation being incorrect due to fighting an opponent with a higher score/pr or maybe an opponent with a lower score/pr?

Seems like it could be many different things, or even a combination of things. I dont know how much help we are going to be to you on this one Jon.

Novice, I agree, I think that MPR is just being displayed incorrectly. For example, Neela X's character Desja
has been growing like a cancer, yet does an almost insignificant amount of damage, compared to other single FB mages with similar MPR.

I checked some more things from some more people and have some facts and ideas:

Facts:
- The bug affects MPR being displayed too high, and thus also affecting PR.
- The bug isn't being affected by clan bonuses, NUB, NCB, wacky exp time, forging, blacksmithing, loaning out items or rentals.
- The bug can be fixed by training something basic, 1 ST on an enchanter, and untraining it again.
- The longer a player waits for this 'manual correction' the higher the MPR difference it will be.

Ideas:
- Is the bug tattoo/rune/familiar related, in a way that having either one equipped (even with RoE while it doesn't gain levels) makes the MPR bugged some?

If so then people not using any tattoo/rune/familiar should be unaffected. But difficulty is finding those people...

If not then everybody who is fighting is affected, and then it would either be an exp calculation, but this happens while not training any experience also, so it is something we players can't even try to control. So the thought of it being restricted to tattoo/rune/familiar users is wrong also imo, but still possible.

So then how does the mpr get so high?

- Calculation of MPR is flawed while fighting, as in getting calculated wrongly and displayed, though while fighting a players mpr isn't calculated, and has nothing to do with any tattoos/runes/familiars.
- Some other factor has to do with calculating the MPR, but which, since it is done by training experience...

If it's just MPR display bug, then why the tattoo max lvl is effected by this bug ? Because I've tried it before few months ago (this already happened quite a long time ago) , I had an oversized tattoo, and it was growing normally, until I retrained something very small, and it decreased my MPR by 50 k, the oversized tattoo stopped growing.

One thing we need to remember is that VPR has never meant your actual MPR since training still raises your PR further.
This could mean that the calculation is slightly off at times and the training brings it back to the true MPR?

RoE's might not grow, but depending on how the game is coded it might still try to add levels to the RoE before it's told not to. And if that's the case, it might add to your pr before it adds to the tats level. So it would add to your pr before it's stopped from adding to the tattoo.

I'm just saying, just because the RoE doesn't gain levels, doesn't mean it doesn't have some of the same code, and then just stop the process at the end.

Maybe the RoE does have a variable that tracks exp gained. Before you flip out at me I want to posit a possible chain of actions that would allow this to happen. First when going to code the RoE perhaps someone decided to borrow some code from one of the other tats, why reinvent the wheel? They then deleted the portion that equates exp to leveling or effect changes, but the variable that tracks exp may have remained. I am not saying this is what happened but it is plausible. So maybe the RoE does keep track of Exp earned.

My pr/mpr graph for the last 5 days is a roller coaster without any of the fun =[

My fightlist isn't changing any, but its still a wonder where I really stand in growth. I've gone from guaging a potential opponents pr/mpr in relation to mine for a win or loss, to just guess work and trial and error. So your welcome to all I've blindly given exp to. =]

I don't know what is happening, but is it possible when people are using RoE and fighting a lot, their MPR is rising more then it should (bug is here) and when they untrains something the MPR fixes itself, but to them it seems like there is a bug in untraining (though there is no bug here)?

Then I think we can't do much since we don't know much how MPR is calculated from exp trained on a minion, only Jon knows the formula. (Or did someone else knows?).
If we would know the formula, we could manually calculate it and see the difference and from there find out where is the bug.

Right now we can only guess.
As I stated before, there might be a bug when you train exp (the MPR is not recalculated but just added X which somehow corresponds to the amount of exp trained).

But when you untrain, you can't just substract X from the MPR, but the MPR has to be recalculated from scratch.

I made a test about the hypothesis I stated above.
I was training different amounts of exp each time I trained (with each of my 4 minions got the same amount each time) and I extrapolated that I get 10 PR for 60 exp trained on each minion.
I was training 60 exp, 100 exp, 200 exp... and then the increase of PR was as expected.
And at on 7th time I trained 180 exp and my PR went up by 967, but it should increase by 30.
Then I trained a little DX and untrained it and my PR went by 937 (as it should be before I made the training/untraining routine.

My hypothesis is correct, but I don't know exactly when the bug in training happens.

Also and observation. Max tattoo is only increasing after you fight and train, so I guess it is tied to VPR... But maybe it might or might not have something to do with the bug.

True, but I collected some nice amount of exp to see how Max tattoo increases. I trained 36k exp and max tattoo did not increase.
Only after I fought 10 battles and then trained, was the Max tattoo changed.

max tattoo is not updated right away either, it lags a bit behind as has been discussed before.

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