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When "teaching" concepts, there are some of us who don't want to pressure our dogs into compliance but rather use motivational rewards. There is definitely a time and a place for the ecollar.

By your use of "'teaching' concepts," 'fraid your naivete's showing. Unless your idea of a "concept" is a single marked retrieve. Do you know how "not to pressure (y)our dog into compliance" with a middle indent retired triple, or an in-line triple with middle gun retired? Or a hip-pocket thrown into the flier station? What's your "motivational reward" for any of those? Or how would you use (or not) the e-collar in trying to master those concepts?

Originally Posted by Enzos Mom

I'm inclined to think that the paraphrase is taken out of context. Yes, field training has successfully used the collar to incorporate training better than the way most people first used the concept of the ecollar; however, I believe ME is now using a much more effective way of ecollar training with much less fallout if any.

Again, "much less fallout" relative to whom and for teaching just what, exactly, in terms of advanced training?

Come back with a report on Mr. Ellis' progress (which he undoubtedly will make as an outstanding obedience trainer) when you have a better grasp of how retriever trainers use the e-collar in advancing their dogs instead of limiting "fallout."

I don't think that Enzo's Mom said that Michael Ellis is a 2Q trainer.

I do believe that she is praising him for using all four quadrants.

Read it again.

I do believe that she is incorrectly praising him for NOT using two of the quadrants, and simultaneously (and also incorrectly) accusing Traditional Retriever Trainers of ONLY using those same two quadrants that she doesn't like.

Considering the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity". -Unknown