Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Servus Pio XII here, from Catholic Answers. My old name reflected my mindset in 2005, so I have changed it to the immortal Latin for "no-name". I reason that this name will be suitable no matter what beliefs I hold in the future.

It is good to see you all again - and many thanks to Michael (Heyschios) for referencing this forum on CA, or I never would have found it. I too was disgusted by the reformation of Eastern Christianity; returning from a brief hiatus, my haven was uprooted, Joe (so kindly forgiving of my stupidity) was replaced by another, and the Orthodox (from whom I learnt so much) were gone.

You chaps helped form my spirituality as it stands and, tho I am still in the Catholic communion, I find my phronema more Orthodox by the day.

Reader Arsenios, if you are out there, let's continue our correspondence!

Servus Pio XII here, from Catholic Answers. My old name reflected my mindset in 2005, so I have changed it to the immortal Latin for "no-name". I reason that this name will be suitable no matter what beliefs I hold in the future.

It is good to see you all again - and many thanks to Michael (Heyschios) for referencing this forum on CA, or I never would have found it. I too was disgusted by the reformation of Eastern Christianity; returning from a brief hiatus, my haven was uprooted, Joe (so kindly forgiving of my stupidity) was replaced by another, and the Orthodox (from whom I learnt so much) were gone.

You chaps helped form my spirituality as it stands and, tho I am still in the Catholic communion, I find my phronema more Orthodox by the day.

Reader Arsenios, if you are out there, let's continue our correspondence!

-NN

Yes, Reader, where are you?

Welcome aboard Nihil.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Servus Pio XII here, from Catholic Answers. My old name reflected my mindset in 2005, so I have changed it to the immortal Latin for "no-name". I reason that this name will be suitable no matter what beliefs I hold in the future.

It is good to see you all again - and many thanks to Michael (Heyschios) for referencing this forum on CA, or I never would have found it. I too was disgusted by the reformation of Eastern Christianity; returning from a brief hiatus, my haven was uprooted, Joe (so kindly forgiving of my stupidity) was replaced by another, and the Orthodox (from whom I learnt so much) were gone.

You chaps helped form my spirituality as it stands and, tho I am still in the Catholic communion, I find my phronema more Orthodox by the day.

Reader Arsenios, if you are out there, let's continue our correspondence!

-NN

Welcome to the forum!

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"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Servus Pio XII here, from Catholic Answers. My old name reflected my mindset in 2005, so I have changed it to the immortal Latin for "no-name". I reason that this name will be suitable no matter what beliefs I hold in the future.

It is good to see you all again - and many thanks to Michael (Heyschios) for referencing this forum on CA, or I never would have found it. I too was disgusted by the reformation of Eastern Christianity; returning from a brief hiatus, my haven was uprooted, Joe (so kindly forgiving of my stupidity) was replaced by another, and the Orthodox (from whom I learnt so much) were gone.

You chaps helped form my spirituality as it stands and, tho I am still in the Catholic communion, I find my phronema more Orthodox by the day.

Reader Arsenios, if you are out there, let's continue our correspondence!

-NN

Welcome NN!

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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Then we might have met. I came there as soon as I found out about you all, with my two young sons. We were not able to stay, because the wind pulled out my window (it was an awful weekend for weather), and we had to get back to Chicago Sunday night. I hope to visit you again soon, in your new home.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Then we might have met. I came there as soon as I found out about you all, with my two young sons. We were not able to stay, because the wind pulled out my window (it was an awful weekend for weather), and we had to get back to Chicago Sunday night. I hope to visit you again soon, in your new home.

And I have been to Chicago (All Saints) and will probably be visiting again...(she said as she ducked to avoid the theological food fight).We have our own building now; we moved in about a month ago.My daughter is moving to Chicago this fall, (she's Lutheran and has a Church picked out, but when I visit she wants to go to church with me. She met Fr. Reardon at the Lutheran Colloquium and would like to visit) so maybe we'll run into each other sometime.Now let's get out of this thread, before we get hit with some rotten produce... I'd be interested in what you thought of the Western Rite.

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We are always living God's future in a broken present, the Gospel is always a word of reconciliation from God's future spoken ahead of its time"

Servus Pio XII here, from Catholic Answers. My old name reflected my mindset in 2005, so I have changed it to the immortal Latin for "no-name". I reason that this name will be suitable no matter what beliefs I hold in the future.

Welcome to the "other" forum, Nihil. This is "ForeverAdam" from CAF! I hope you find much food for your journey to Orthodoxy here.

If anyone has contact with Joe Monahan or has his email, could they please pm me? PLEASE DO NOT POST EMAIL ADDRESSES IN THE FORUM.I would like to get in touch with Joe ASAP, so if you have contact with him, pm me and I will give you my email to pass it on to him.

The poster known here as "Papist", and known on CAF as "East and West" has made the following post on another thread:

Oh, I agree. There are some bad Catholic moderators out there. Joe, who used to moderate the Eastern Christianity forum at CA was absolutely terrible. Preferential treatment for Eastern Orthodox Chrisitans while giving his own Catholic Bretheren little to no room to speak at all.

And I think "Papist"/"East and West" should be held responsible for what he says in public forums.

Thanks,George(Global Moderator)

« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 08:01:07 AM by ozgeorge »

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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

If anyone has contact with Joe Monahan or has his email, could they please pm me? PLEASE DO NOT POST EMAIL ADDRESSES IN THE FORUM.I would like to get in touch with Joe ASAP, so if you have contact with him, pm me and I will give you my email to pass it on to him.

The poster known here as "Papist", and known on CAF as "East and West" has made the following post on another thread:

And I think "Papist"/"East and West" should be held responsible for what he says in public forums.

Thanks,George(Global Moderator)

Man, you take a great deal of interest in me. At the very least I guess I should be flattered. Now in what way would you like me to take responsibility for my statements? I mean, its not like I am denying them. I think he was an absolutely horrible moderator. Probably because he was so biased against those who actually believe in the teachings of the Church. For some reason he could not keep his biases out of his moderation. Anyway, are you expecting me to tell this to him personally? I am not sure what you want.

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You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

If you do get in touch with Mr. Monahan, I'd be interested to know what he's doing now. (I don't really know him, since I never got involved with CAF, but I've heard lots of good things about him.) It'd be nice to see him moderating another forum, seeing as he's no longer at CAF.

My question, Papist, is why the secrecy about who's been banished and who hasn't? Under mgy100's name it clearly say "Banned", but under Irish Melkite's name it says "Senior Member". Does this mean that Irish Melkite is still permitted to post, and has just been choosing not too? That's what the casual observer would assume.

Peter,

I can assure you that I'm not permitted to post there or I certainly would have done so on any number of occasions recently in response to some of the inane posts that have been made of late, such as:

a poster in process of converting to Catholicism from Anglicanism (IIRC) (and crowing about how "steeped" he was in doctrine, dogma, and general spiritual understanding) wondering aloud whether he should seek to be confirmed in the Latin Church or an Eastern Church - as if it were a choice akin to selecting an ice cream flavor

a poster asking the difference between the Assyrian Church and the Ancient Church of the East and being answered by a Latin (who prefaced his response with a self-congratulatory remark as to how well-versed he was on the topic) who proclaimed that the Assyrians under Mar Dinkha were about to enter into communion with Rome (what a surprise that will be to Mar Bawai, excommunicated from the Assyrian Church for his own proposal to do so)

a poster, responding to the differences between the Coptic and Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Churches, by stating that Pope Shenouda is on the verge of effecting communion with Rome

a poster stating that Eucharistic Adoration is not ordinarily observed in the Eastern Churches, Catholic or Orthodox, because our attitude toward the Eucharist is one of banality (I hope I have that correctly. I was dumbstruck when reading it, particularly as it was posted by a member who is reputedly an Eastern Catholic, not by one of the newcomers over there whose ecclesial affiliations seem to defy definition)

a poster declaring that Russian Byzantine Catholics are part and parcel of the Melkite Church - a conclusion he reached on the basis of the fact that the Melkite hierarchy in the US have been providing episcopal support to two of the Russian parishes, which lack their own hierarchy

And those are only some of the most egregious and misinformed statements regarding belief and praxis - all or most unchallenged, because there no longer an adequate core body of knowledgeable ECs or EOs remaining. The small cadre of ByzCath posters who took up part-time residence there, I suspect in response to a plea for help from someone there, valiently tried to address issues, but were not there often enough to make a difference and (I think) began to see the place as the farcical shadow of its former self that it has become.

Frankly, I'd given up even reading there because I found it so frustrating to be unable to correct the blatant misinformation being posted and sworn to as an accurate picture of Eastern Christianity, particularly Eastern Catholicism. I've got more important and worthwhile endeavors to pursue and not enough time as is. The instances I referenced above came to my attention when I heard about and went there to read that remarkable moderator reply generated by mgy's post. It was a sad testament to the death of their EC forum as we used to know it - a place in which ideas were exchanged, accurate and meaningful info was dispensed, and we engaged in energetic but respectful debate.

I think that the greatest loss was the incredible treasury of info - not polemic or apologetics - that had been compiled there. Threads that were veritable catalogues of vesture and liturgical accoutrements - Eastern and Western; others that discussed, in incredible detail, topics such as the myriad sects that arose contemporaneously with the Old Believer movement; threads replete with illustrations of ecclesiastical architecture; and so much more - all relegated to CA's unaccessible archives - the internet version of book-burning.

As to why some are labeled as banned and others are not, with all due respect to my brothers and sisters whose identities are tagged with the scarlet "B", there is a method to the apparent madness of this selectivity. Do not kid yourselves. As busy as this board is and as well-established as ByzCath and the other Orthodox lists/forums are, the on-line Eastern community is small, Many of us have known one another for years and many of us are known, at least by nick and rep, outside the communities which we frequent.

Father Ambrose, for all the times that he had been suspended there, was among CA's most prolific posters (nearly 20K posts - more, but for the data lost in CA's 'Great Crash'). Revered or reviled, he is sufficiently well-known that it would stand out, like a sore thumb, were he obviously banned. Likewise, with no intent to blow my own horn, I'm fairly well-known in the same genre, more because of my reputation as an information-mongerer than anything else. Unlike my dear friend in the land of the kiwi, I rarely wage the battles, leaving those to the would-be apologists and theologians on both sides; I do, however, specialize in answering obscure queries - a habit that seems to afford me a niche in folks' memories. I'd be willing to guess that one will never see my dear friend Michael/Hesychios labeled, nor Padre Ambrogio - why? Because they are, without question, two of the least contentious and most highly-respected folk whom one will ever meet in posting; either could disagree with you in the most vehement manner and you'd still walk away feeling emotionally unscathed because they would do so in such a genteel manner. Those who fit these kinds of profiles are not as easily dispensed with and leaving their names unfettered gives a modicum of respectability that might otherwise be lost.

As to John's suggestion about how to identify the banned, that only works if those checking are themselves logged in. as I recollect.

Many years,

Neil

Addendum: I echo the comments by my friend and brother, username. The blatant misinformation bandied about as to Eastern Catholicism (and Eastern Orthodoxy) at that site is an incredible abuse. There are Latin Catholics who are both knowledgeable and respectful of the East - my dear friend, James, comes immediately to mind and there are others as well. However, people who fit the profile username describes - their knowledge formed from a 100 year old encyclopedia, wikipedia - where you too can be listed in any royal lineage that strikes your fancy and survive as such until someone notices the inclusion, EWTN or other Latin-oriented sources that may be well-intentioned but are often ignorant, etc - are unfortunately rampant in a place like CAF. When the forum was alive and well, the kind of misinformation and misinterpretation that username and I describe would have been quickly debunked. Such is no longer the case. And people like Artemis and Woodstock, who seem to take their Eastern Catholicity with a heavy dollop of Western dressing, are hardly up to meeting the challenge (besides which I do wish that Woodstock would stop paraphrasing old text of mine when she gets on a soapbox; it's often recognizable and I would hate to have anyone associate us as perhaps the same individual).

« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 02:11:33 AM by Irish Melkite »

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"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

Well, I have entered the fray over at CAF and promise to do my best to correct ignorance and misinformation.

Father Deacon Lance,

Indeed, I noted your presence and the excellent reply that you made to Woodstock's strange presentation regarding the Eastern view toward the Eucharist, as she perceived it.

I wish you much success. As you likely noticed, Father Deacon Randy has been posting there - although less in the last couple weeks, I think. Ung is posting off and on, Al/a pilgrim still posts occasionally as do Amado, Laka, Ghosty, and several Oriental Catholics who have been notable for their perseverance, but the vast majority of those putting fingers to keyboard are woefully ill-informed at best, ill-intended at worst. In its best day, it lacked the sense of community that pervade this site and ByzCath, altho the "regs" as Joe termed them certainly had a camaraderie and mutual respect that caused them to come together when triumphalism would rear its ugly head. The sheer numbers there made it a worthwhile place to be - as someplace to explain Eastern Christianity to the those who were truly curious and it did offer an atmosphere more conducive to debate than most of the Eastern sites, the majority of which are either so insular or so collegial as to discourage the tough exchanges (and, I'll admit that I'm an advocate of the collegial mode - figuring that the day will come when the Holy Spirit will decide to sort out all the theological disagreements and render the argumentation moot).

Regretably, though, it's now become chiefly a place whereat one can only hope to try and shine light that will diffuse ignorance - a siege atmosphere.

My prayers for your success in dealing with the issues and the personalities there.

Many years,

Neil

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"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

If anyone has contact with Joe Monahan or has his email, could they please pm me? PLEASE DO NOT POST EMAIL ADDRESSES IN THE FORUM.I would like to get in touch with Joe ASAP, so if you have contact with him, pm me and I will give you my email to pass it on to him.

The poster known here as "Papist", and known on CAF as "East and West" has made the following post on another thread:

And I think "Papist"/"East and West" should be held responsible for what he says in public forums.

Thanks,George(Global Moderator)

Its interesting that no one here acccused George of trolling, or at least baiting, for this post. But hey, double standards are the medium in which eveyone works here, i guess.

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You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

I still don't quit understand what is the Big deal Some posters liked Joe some Didn't,,i myself liked him....he seemed like a fair moderator on caf....he did suspend me for a two week stretch over their.....since it was a eastern christianity forum at that time to discuss eastern thought, i could understand why the r-catholic posterswould feel they were being censored by him and weren't given a fair say in pushing the supremacy of the popes on that- eastern christianity sub -forum memory eternal........just my thought on this i could be wrong or not............stanislav

Shhhh! That's the plan! One thing at a time! Let me win his trust first, then when he takes the bait, I'll reel him in and slap him on the head with the oar.(BTW, he's probably reading this thread, so there goes the element of surprise!)

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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

Shhhh! That's the plan! One thing at a time! Let me win his trust first, then when he takes the bait, I'll reel him in and slap him on the head with the oar.(BTW, he's probably reading this thread, so there goes the element of surprise!)

There's no comparison now between the present attempt at Moding and what we had before [ despite comments made by some folk ]

Joe allowed us just so much rope and then he gently pulled us back in .

When he said "gentle people' you knew he was saying "watch it or else ...... "

If he told you off - you really needed it.

As a result of the changes the board really is not serving a useful function - if an example is needed look at the wonderful thread where someone [ not yet RC ] asks if he can be Confirmed in a Byzantine Church !!

At that point he had never set foot inside one.

aaaaaaargh

the misinformation is really bad nowadays

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"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."- St. John Maximovitch

God blessed Joe with many trials during his moderatorship, and the way Joe handled them was a testament to his faith and love for God. I believe there are only a few people who could have handled the demands of the position there as well as Joe did. I am yet to discover who those other people are

Joe allowed us just so much rope and then he gently pulled us back in .

Only when you agreed with him. He pretty much once said that i was not allowed to say that the Eastern Orthodox were in schism. I guess you have to pretty much believe in Eastern Orthodoxy for him to give you any rope. The funny thing is that this was a CATHOLIC forum!!!

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You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Only when you agreed with him. He pretty much once said that i was not allowed to say that the Eastern Orthodox were in schism. I guess you have to pretty much believe in Eastern Orthodoxy for him to give you any rope. The funny thing is that this was a CATHOLIC forum!!!

You know it is very low to attack Joe when he isn't even posting here to defend himself. Whatever happened to Christian Charity?

Only when you agreed with him. He pretty much once said that i was not allowed to say that the Eastern Orthodox were in schism. I guess you have to pretty much believe in Eastern Orthodoxy for him to give you any rope. The funny thing is that this was a CATHOLIC forum!!!

No Papist - you are wrong there. It was NOT an Eastern Catholic Forum - it was an Eastern Christian Forum .

Catholic and Orthodox folk were there on equal terms .

Most of us had some courtesy there. You attract far more people by being kind and charitable and not hitting them over the head with that 6 foot wooden plank.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2008, 06:35:08 PM by the slave »

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"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."- St. John Maximovitch

Which of these unfavourable comments have been made by a) Catholics [ be they EC or RC ] and b) Orthodox Christians ?

As regards the favourable comments

How many have been made by a) Catholics [ be they EC or RC ] and b) Orthodox Christians

I await your answers .

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"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."- St. John Maximovitch

Only when you agreed with him. He pretty much once said that i was not allowed to say that the Eastern Orthodox were in schism. I guess you have to pretty much believe in Eastern Orthodoxy for him to give you any rope. The funny thing is that this was a CATHOLIC forum!!!

Interesting you should mention this. You complain about how a former CAF moderator "allowed" Eastern Catholic and Orthodox posters too much freedom to preach, without Latin correctives, their "heretical" Eastern faith on a CATHOLIC forum, yet you come to our ORTHODOX forum to preach a Latin faith we find just as heretical. Not only that, you complain when you're moderated the way you think Joe should have moderated the EC/EO on his forum. Can't stand the taste of your own medicine, can you? I shouldn't be surprised, since double standards are the medium in which you work here, I guess.

Interesting you should mention this. You complain about how a former CAF moderator "allowed" Eastern Catholic and Orthodox posters too much freedom to preach, without Latin correctives, their "heretical" Eastern faith on a CATHOLIC forum, yet you come to our ORTHODOX forum to preach a Latin faith we find just as heretical. Not only that, you complain when you're moderated the way you think Joe should have moderated the EC/EO on his forum. Can't stand the taste of your own medicine, can you? I shouldn't be surprised, since double standards are the medium in which you work here, I guess.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The only time I have complained about moderation is when it was objectively unfair. So, although you think you are clever, you are sadly mistaken.

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You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.