makarasilapin wrote:hey manas, just seeing this thread for the first time. i smoked for 12 years before giving it up, so i understand the struggle!

best of luck to you!

Thank you

Today is DAY 3. I craved a smoke yesterday for a few hours, and I was annoyed with myself for having made the new 10-day pact. Haha! I just could not bring myself to break this pact...so once again, this topic's existence 'saved' my abstinence. Thanks to everyone who has replied (and there have been so many), I am closer to being fully detoxified from the smokes than I have been in, about six months, I think.

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity." (SN 22.97)

makarasilapin wrote:lol awesome. i love how you're doing this and that the forum is such a strong support. only 7 days to go!!

Thank you.

DAY 4

Thought for the day. If this craving was really 'mine' in the sense of 'smoking is something I want, something I need' then it would not come and go like this. It would always be present. But it isn't like that. It is here one day, and gone the next. Sometimes, if I experience some calm or sweetness in meditation, I arise from it with the notion, "I don't want tobacco anymore. The pleasure of meditation is superior to gross sensual pleasures such as tobacco". In that moment, convinced. Then, a couple of hours later, the mind-body craves gross sensual pleasures again! Therefore: the craving is not mine. It arises and passes away according to conditions. It ought to be dealt with skilfully, but I don't have to give in and listen to it, because it's not actually 'mine' even though, when it arises, there is that perception. But that perception must be a false one.

I have to tolerate a mild burning sometimes. The feeling of craving something but not indulging in it. But this feeling of burning is a walk in the park, as compared with the pain of losing one's mobility due to a stroke, or coughing up bits of one's lung, or dying from a heart attack. I can handle a bit of temporary burning, so that I can avoid these much worse things.

metta

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity." (SN 22.97)

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

I hope that maybe, some other member (or guest) who is similarly suffering from an addiction of some kind, will read this someday, see how helpful this method (publicly declaring one's resolve online like this) has been, in extricating myself from a very nasty habit. Pride has to be abandoned some day, but goodness it does have it's uses sometimes. I've regretted having made this public topic quite a few times. So normally, those would have been times when I would have most likely had a smoke. But every time I felt that urge, I felt BOUND by this pact. My sense of pride was stronger than the desire to smoke. Haha! Now there's a skilful use for something that ordinarily, one would not regard as very wholesome. As for having a smoke and simply not telling anyone here - forget it. Two reasons I won't do that. 1. It would feel stupid, wrong, and self-defeating to do that. 2. It is possible that many people would read the lie, in which case I would be lying to all of them...bad kamma!!!

But being bound by this pact would still not have been enough, I think, were it not for everyone who has lent their kind support to me. The words of encouragement, when a few times I was really doubting, thinking "argh why have I done this!", were like a refreshing, cool breeze on a sweltering hot day.

metta

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity." (SN 22.97)

"Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path."

I think I am almost there (I mean, over this addiction), dear friends and colleagues. Thanks to three things: a good initial idea (this topic), a bit of patience and effort from myself to see it through, and all of your supportiveness along the way (without which I would not have made it - I believe this to be true).

Now, I don't think the level of addiction I had was very severe. As I said in the beginning, if just a few a day can be this hard to kick, I really pity those who smoke a packet or more a day. That must be hell to give up, in comparison to the pain I've had to endure, which has been mixed; mostly moderate, only rarely did it get intense. But I still would advise the same to anyone who was smoking a packet a day, and considering quitting: logically, the longer you leave it, the harder it gets to quit. Now is always going to be the easiest time to do it. Because every time we give in to an urge, we strengthen it. If we keep strengthening it over and over again, it will take even more energy to overcome, when we do finally decide to abandon it. So spare yourself the pain - quit now.

Hehe they should use that in the anti-smoking ads: "spare yourself the pain - quit now."

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity." (SN 22.97)

Congrats! But keep vigilant - this could just be sneaky Mara making you think you can lessen the effort,

with mettaChris

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

You are right about how it can seem like it's over, but then, unexpectedly, the old mindset is suddenly right there, present in the mind. Along with the old memories of how it felt, or other sensual pleasures associated with smoking. It is devious and nasty.

I am understanding that long term, I have to find and engage in other, but healthy things that also bring a rush or sense of excitement. It's why I should escape out to the forested mountains more often, as I once did. This brings a pleasant feeling - of fresh, more highly oxygenated air - and a mild sense of exhilaration at times. The difference is, this pleasure will lengthen my life, rather than shorten it!

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity." (SN 22.97)

manas wrote:I am understanding that long term, I have to find and engage in other, but healthy things that also bring a rush or sense of excitement... The difference is, this pleasure will lengthen my life, rather than shorten it!

manas wrote:It's why I should escape out to the forested mountains more often, as I once did. This brings a pleasant feeling - of fresh, more highly oxygenated air - and a mild sense of exhilaration at times. The difference is, this pleasure will lengthen my life, rather than shorten it!

I see the opportunity here to tell a crazy story, which I am very eager to take.So when things seem to get tough, don't light up but lighten up a bit, and read this funny (?) and inspiring (??) story.

I remember my first 10 day meditation retreat where I could not smoke. I was okay with that. Quite. On the surface. It was simple. It was good.One night I had really crazy dreams, could hardly sleep, woke up soaked in sweat many times.In one dream I was walking along some alley, feeling very lonely. I could not see anyone and was full of anxiety and longing for someone to help me somehow. I looked at the trees lined up on the pavement on the side of the road. It was dark and gloomy somehow, or something, although it was bright, I could not see very much, very far. Then I saw a pair of feet walking on the pavement and disappearing behind one of the trees, the rest of the body they belonged to already being out of view behind the trunk. I anxiously walked from the street to the pavement to the line of trees, walking around the trunk of that tree, wanting to follow after the walking feet I had seen. I felt so lonely. I cried "help me... help me... HELP MEEE!!", starting slowly, with a low voice, getting louder and desperate, and running behind the pair of walking feet, that I now saw again and hastily caught up with. It were only the feet, with the bones sticking out of the flesh cut off at the thighs, with blood running down. Without control, simultaneous with the last desperately and aggressively resounding "HELP MEEEE!!!!" I grasped and took hold of one of the feet-and-calves, raised it to my mouth and voraciously began eating it, tasting the blood and crunching the bones.It was a very vivid dream.

That is the nature of craving. For whatever.

So be glad that you are still in a healthier mindset mostly (hopefully ), and remember your own good thoughts and how much sense they make:

manas wrote:I thought, "this is harming you, and sometimes even causes headaches in the mornings, etc, yet you crave it?" It is messed up to crave that which harms you. So addiction is like getting yourself in to a hole, you decide one day that you want out, but it's not so easy. it takes time. You are not out as soon as you make that first sincere volition to quit.

manas wrote:Now is always going to be the easiest time to do it. Because every time we give in to an urge, we strengthen it. If we keep strengthening it over and over again, it will take even more energy to overcome, when we do finally decide to abandon it. So spare yourself the pain - quit now.

Very simple and to the point. Very true. Very good. That's the way.

Keep it simple. You can do it.

It's funny though, that sometimes we have a hard time appreciating such simple truths. Forgetting about them, we make it complicated.Thinking simple thoughts and letting go of nonsense, that's the way. Craving is just craving.I like your simple thoughts. Keep them coming as they do, slowly slowly, khanti khanti.

May the force be with you!

Dmytro wrote:It's awesome, Manas!

Perhaps a friendly tip will be of help - noticing the precise feeling of craving, with accompanying emotion, and encompassing it with equanimous loving-kindness, helped me to deal with old addiction.

manas wrote:I am understanding that long term, I have to find and engage in other, but healthy things that also bring a rush or sense of excitement... The difference is, this pleasure will lengthen my life, rather than shorten it!

There's always chocolate...

YYYYEEEESSSS! good idea, I'll get some soon

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity." (SN 22.97)

manas wrote:It's why I should escape out to the forested mountains more often, as I once did. This brings a pleasant feeling - of fresh, more highly oxygenated air - and a mild sense of exhilaration at times. The difference is, this pleasure will lengthen my life, rather than shorten it!

Whew, I know this freshness and exhilaration

Yes, in the end, oxygen easily beats nicotene and carbon monoxide.

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity." (SN 22.97)

I see the opportunity here to tell a crazy story, which I am very eager to take.So when things seem to get tough, don't light up but lighten up a bit, and read this funny (?) and inspiring (??) story.

I remember my first 10 day meditation retreat where I could not smoke. I was okay with that. Quite. On the surface. It was simple. It was good.One night I had really crazy dreams, could hardly sleep, woke up soaked in sweat many times.In one dream I was walking along some alley, feeling very lonely. I could not see anyone and was full of anxiety and longing for someone to help me somehow. I looked at the trees lined up on the pavement on the side of the road. It was dark and gloomy somehow, or something, although it was bright, I could not see very much, very far. Then I saw a pair of feet walking on the pavement and disappearing behind one of the trees, the rest of the body they belonged to already being out of view behind the trunk. I anxiously walked from the street to the pavement to the line of trees, walking around the trunk of that tree, wanting to follow after the walking feet I had seen. I felt so lonely. I cried "help me... help me... HELP MEEE!!", starting slowly, with a low voice, getting louder and desperate, and running behind the pair of walking feet, that I now saw again and hastily caught up with. It were only the feet, with the bones sticking out of the flesh cut off at the thighs, with blood running down. Without control, simultaneous with the last desperately and aggressively resounding "HELP MEEEE!!!!" I grasped and took hold of one of the feet-and-calves, raised it to my mouth and voraciously began eating it, tasting the blood and crunching the bones.It was a very vivid dream.

That is the nature of craving. For whatever.

...

Anyway, keep it going, manas! Keep it simple.

Thank you for sharing your dream, perkele. There is this sutta where the Buddha compares the pleasure we get from indulging in sensuality, to the feeling of relief from incessant itchiness a leper feels, when he puts his rotting, oozy sores near hot coals. The burning heat makes the itching go away, apparently. But if the leper gets healed, those same hot coals seem painful, not pleasant. And so it is said, that sense pleasures are actually painful, not pleasant, just like the burning hot coals, but that we don't currently perceive it this way cos we are sick. With delusion.

So, and I am happy to be corrected on this, but this implies that from the perspective of an anagami or arahant, an orgasm would be regarded as unpleasant rather than pleasant! (Is that correct?)In which case this Path really is un-worldly, and leads away from worldliness.

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity." (SN 22.97)

It must be DAY 8 by now. (I lost count for a while.) So that's a record for the last six months, afaik.

Much as this journey has been wonderful to share, and that I know I would not have made it without all of the kind support and encouragement from everyone who has replied, I am going to finally end it after this current 10 day mark has been achieved. I'm not comfortable being 'in the spotlight' at the best of times, not for too long anyway. But I hope that, if in the future I find that I need to do this again, that people won't groan and go, "oh not again!" In any case, people are always free to click on a topic, or not if they don't wish to.

But, what a journey. And how fortunate it is to have admirable friendship.

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity." (SN 22.97)