Ken Labine has now made the shift from ONECOIN to DAGCOIN…claiming that “Onecoin may not be on a public exchange…but those who wait will profit” .. in addition to claiming he used 500 Onecoins to buy and egagement ring…

Looks like the shift has started as many of the OneCoin Leaders are pushing this….including of course the CEO Nils Grossberg was the biggest leaders in Europe for Onecoin back in .late 2016 and then he realized in early 2017 that Onecoin was bogus and finally Clipped his cord to Onecoin in March….which was the start of the mass leader EXODUS that continues today wihin Onecoin…

Please do not invest in this coin… Trust me it is 100% scam currently….

Everything Kari or Labine are involved in is a scam but this might be little more sophisticated scam than OneCoin. They moved on to next level in crypto scam industry, this time with technically better/more credible scam props.

They have a better white paper, good enough to actually make public but that’s just the first and lowest hurdle. By the way, read the disclaimer, it’s a hoot.

Onecoin made the conscious decision not to have a working blockchain and not to be publicly tradable, it allowed them to control the alleged “price” of their coin in a way that would have been impossible otherwise.

If people could get 25 cents for a onecoin millions of them would be sold for that amount near instantly. This despite how ever many Euro Ruja pretends her coin is worth. Quite simply this is how open markets work.

Dagcoin faces the exact same problem, either engage in an open market and let that market dictate their coin value or pretend their coins are always and only increasing in price. It can not do both.

Aye there’s the rub. No MLM altcoin has ever held legitimate market value for more than a hot minute and none of them ever will.

Jason McRiffle:
Wow.But how are people selling their ONE COINS for 3.5 cents anyways

The price of last sale tells nothing about the volume, I presume? When NanoCoin scam coin went for sale its value dropped and dropped until it came to halt.

Why to halt? Well there simply were no longer coins being sold because nobody wanted to buy them for the price “that high” (compared to the real value of zero) and nobody wanted to sell for price “that low” (compared to the price they paid for their scamcoins).

alberts and cimbala seem to have some [paid] influence with ted nuyten of business-for-home, as that site tracked their scam career in onecoin with several laudatory articles about their ‘success’.

hardly a surprise then, that nuyten has published his first story about dagcoin. with only around 30,000 affiliates, it’s strange that ted nuyten thought dagcoin was worth talking about.

in an article titled ‘Top Leader Kari Wahlroos Joins Dagcoin’ dated jan 8th, 2018, ted nuyten suffers sudden amnesia and forgets that kari wahlroos was a top recruiter of his fav scam onecoin which he promoted extensively via positive articles over the past few years.

says nuyten of kari [emphasis mine]:

Recently, top leader Kari Wahlroos, former Global Ambassador of a crypto currency network, joined DagUniversity – DagCoin to become Chief Network Officer.

awww, looks like being connected to onecoin doesn’t sell anymore! not for ted nuyten or business-for-home or kariboy!

onecoin is mentioned once in this article with a negative connotation :

The head of the project and its founder and CEO is Nils Grossberg, who boasts almost 10 years of experience in the tech industry.

He was briefly involved with Onecoin for 2-3 months in the end of 2015 and beginning of 2016, but left the company quickly after disappointment in company’s activities.

ted nuyten who promoted the onecoin scam by publishing positive articles about it regularly, is now being paid by onecoin scammers to disassociate their names from the scam, so they can start their new career with the dagcoin scam on a fresh page.

well, the internet does not forget so i don’t know how ted nuyten’s lies-by-omission will work.

says the article:

We shall observe the evolution of this project during 2018.

If they really do what they are planning, it might be the year when the opportunity momentum will take place.

and drummmrolll… with this^^ begins ted nuyten’s promotion of dagcoin, and soon we can expect articles about how the concept is soooo great that believe-it-or-not even albert and cimbala joined!

kari wahlroos is claiming dagcoin has reached 45000 affiliates from around the world.

dagcoin is supposed to launch on public exchanges in feb 2018. having a real cryptocurrency code and launching on a few exchanges means nothing, as we have seen with bitconnect which recently shut down following a cease&desist order from texas for offering unregistered securities.

however, dagcoin is being smart and avoiding the USA.

india is the second highest traffic provider to their website. kari wahlroos who very embarrassingly refers to himself as ‘The Mighty Eagle’ these days, popped in and out of delhi, india for a few hours with the venue kept secret. wonder what he’s afraid of 😉

he’s made ex-onecoin scam buddy richard carvalho his fall guy for india. carvalho is holding recruitment meetings all over india with venues announced at the last minute.

if i were him i’d be damn careful, the EOW can climb into their jeeps and be in any part of a city within a couple of hours. these guys are swift on their feet.

i’m sure carvalho and kariboy remember the onecoin arrests here and are being very careful because of that. hope their good luck in avoiding arrest continues.

kari has announced their first merchant accepting dagcoins, a new european tour company called diaxa GTE which was registered in late nov, 2017. allegedly they will accept part payment in dagcoins which doesn’t make dagcoin a currency at all, but juts a discount coupon [same modus operandi like onecoin and it’s dealshaker platform].

Oh wow! Now there’s a blast from the past! Richard Carvalho presented himself into the spotlight, last I recall, during the “Angelina Lazar Period” of Onecoin. Lol.

Carvalho was an important Onecoin connection for both India AND Dubai, as I recall. He definitely had a significant downline, but I think (IMO) he had reason (or incentive) to “go underground.”

Carvalho heavily antagonized Lazar, for what it’s worth (don’t even go there); at least during the 7 months which Lazar became an overnight cryptocurrency expert and upcoming author on virtual Money of the future, while single-handedly taking down Onecoin network, and being a special guest of Donald Trump and various dignitaries at exclusive international soirees.

…by this time, anyone following the drama had to ask themselves, “is this real life? – a la: knowyourmeme.com/memes/david-after-dentist?full=1

Carvalho showed himself as a very vile person. Whatever the story with Lazar (and that’s it’s own wild and tipsy rabbit hole adventure), this “period” in Onecoin was certainly an interesting one.

Here’s a blast from the past from back then (I was even still a bit “green” to MLM scam/scammers): youtu.be/PsIoIJtQtEw

Igor, Kari and a few other leaders have try to make a “coup” to distroy and damaging the Onelife organisation and try to invite many big leaders with diamond, blue diamond, or crow ambassador ranks to join Dagcoin scam.

But only a few people of them step over to Dagcoin. Onecoin are not a scam, and will reorgenice his leadership platform now and remove bad people that leave the business.

The true is ,many official autorities have visit Onecoin offices and doing investigate the whole business but everything whas ok.

So,the point is now, Dr.Ruja prepares for the ICO this year in Oct. 2018,…and Onecoin have a stable platform with 3.3M members, with good leadership, and a KYC that protect the coin.

anjali: dagcoin is supposed to launch officially [on external exchanges, i think ] after their annual global event in dubai from 23rd to 25th feb, 2018.

dagcoin is trying to launch on a new exchange called paygety based out of estonia.

paygety’s domain was registered in october, 2017, by a riina lutsokert who also has a real estate agency and coffee shop registered to her name [endvigo OU and coffee suumik OU].

it’s pretty obvious that dagcoin which is run by nils grossberg from estonia is setting up a shell company ‘paygety’ to act as a ‘cryptocurrency exchange’ for his private crypto dagcoin.

who knows what will happen at the backend of this paygety ‘exchange’ and whether any real crypto trading will take place? i vote – fake trades and ponzi payments!

i guess no halfway respectable exchange will touch dagcoin with a barge pole so grossberg is just building himself a pretend one.

the paygety website is pisspoor, not yet functional and has some atrocious english. totally credible looking 😉

github records the handful of developers working on dagcoin are trying to link dagcoin to paygety, but the work is not assigned to any developer yet, and they are still researching ways to integrate with paygety as of three days ago. two poor tech scams trying to integrate takes time, i suppose.

the dubai event seemed to have a rather lacklustre audience with some dagcoin recruiter guy on stage droning on and on about great ‘coming soon’ stuff.

according to alexa, the highest traffic percentage [28.4%] to the dagcoin website is from the US.

the US is currently on fire as far as regulatory interest and action in the cryptocurrency space is concerned, with the SEC taking down several ICO’s:

[march 15, 2018]

The SEC has “dozens” of investigations open in the cryptocurrency space, a senior agency official said March 15.

The remarks from Securities and Exchange Commission Enforcement Division Co-Director Stephanie Avakian came after media reports in February that the agency sent subpoenas to firms it thinks might be breaking securities laws through their involvement in initial coin offerings.

ICOs raised billions of dollars in 2017 by selling digital assets and have faced increasing scrutiny from the commission during the past several months.

“We are very active, and I would just expect to see more and more,” Avakian said at an Investment Adviser Association conference in Washington.

hiding behind the veneer of selling education, dagcoin university cannot fool the SEC that it is not a scam ICO offering.

i think complaining to the SEC might help, so i’ll go ahead and do it.

yeah so the technical issues continue, and the exchange is still not working yet. there are just 3/4 developers working on dagcoin on github and most issues remain unassigned, so their tech development is very slow.

the exchange is still in ‘coming soon’ mode.

meanwhile, dagcoin claims to have gotten licences to provide cryptocurrency wallets and and exchange services from estonia.

alexa shows 25% of dagcoin’s traffic is from the US. the US SEC has just announced it wants cryptocurrency exchanges to register with them.

i don’t think the SEC will permit an estonia registered exchange to provide services to US citizens.

i don’t think the dagcoin exchange [paygety or whatever] will register with the SEC.

so, at some point dagcoin will scram from the US leaving US investors in a lurch.

May I attempt to be some voice of reason here. Of course – you can see something like a delay as ‘like OneCoin’ – although delays are not uncommon in technology at all.

As for Paygety – yes not the strongest site for sure – but getting stronger. (IE: Forward movement)

And even with GitHub – compared to four months ago when I started watching the project – things have advanced in a much quicker fashion seemingly in alignment with their launch of the new coin on May 7th. That’s actually ahead of schedule. Yet to be seen of course but let’s watch closely shall we. 🙂

DagCoin is a OneCoin clone because it uses newly invested funds to pay off existing investors. It was started by a former OneCoin investor and has since attracted other notable OneCoin net-winner investors.

Why?

Because OneCoin recruitment collapsed and the gravy train ran dry.

Launching new blockchains and giving everybody billions of tokens is a play out of OneCoin’s book. Whatever it takes to keep people signing up and handing over money.

Meanwhile nobody outside of the DagCoin network cares because there’s no real world application. Another trait inherited from OneCoin.

Mate – if you’ve ever been in a bad relationship – you know you can’t bring a bad experience to your next relationship.

You do want to be wiser – and I have been very wise here. Watching them build their coin – looking for indicators – is it a OneCoin clone or is it what OneCoin promised and never delivered.

NO PONZI SCHEME – has ever announced that they will release their new coin ahead of schedule and yet Dagcoin has. That date is May 7th.

Again I have watched them build the coin and the momentum has picked up with the number of ‘commits’ by the coders. Not 100% proof but an indicator and an indicator that nobody had at OneCoin or at BitConnect or at USITech, for that matter.

There is more as well – yes including the fact that they have bought licenses for their own exchange. Not something ever done by any previous Ponzi.

Is it 100% proof. NO – just an indicator.

Buuuuuut…

May 7th shall be a big day. 🙂

Let’s continue this conversation then (especially – if it is delayed) 🙂

I disagree mate but rather than debate with you back and forth – as you state your opinion as fact and seemingly even the opinion of others as fact – (that’s opinion not an indicator – there is a difference)

I’m okay with you feeling you’re correct though – and letting time reveal the real truth here. May 7th isn’t far away. 🙂

Sorry Oz – but in order for a Ponzi to be real – wherein – newly invested funds pay off existing investors – the fundamental piece that makes that a truth is that there isn’t an actual product or offering with real value and as mentioned many times, and you seem to completely disregard the truth of this – on May 7th – there shall be a very real and useable coin released.

This means that any one person buying a coin is actually buying a real and useable ‘thing’ and so not simply a wash of money wherein new investors are paying existing investors.

CryptoForWealth:
Sorry Oz – but in order for a Ponzi to be real – wherein – newly invested funds pay off existing investors – the fundamental piece that makes that a truth is that there isn’t an actual product or offering with real value and as mentioned many times, and you seem to completely disregard the truth….

^^^ Who told you that? Your upline? ROTFL

I suggest you read The Ponzi Playbook Chapter 3: The Intelligent Egoist – and how to take his money.

I must admit, the type of posting CryptoForWealth provides, along with many long gone others, does provide me the most entertainment when perusing the comments section.

From a human dynamics perspective what is tragic (not entertaining at all) is to watch the negative paradigms of those like yourself who choose to adopt ‘the ponzi mindset.’

I am an independent thinking human being. My upline doesn’t sway my opinion at all. Such a comment only reveals the limited paradigm from which you exist. (not that you could see that)

I’m saddened that you find entertainment in those that lean towards a positive outlook to life and that you would allow yourself to exist from ‘the ponzi mindset’ – but alas – such is life.

Imagine this…

What if you’re right and I’m completely brainwashed. You somehow get entertainment from this. You would get entertainment from me being so misguided and wasting so much of my precious life, energy and resources?

@CfW, how can you feel so comfortable in blindly dismissing the established track records of the people who founded Dag and the primary upline “leaders”?

I mean these are people who earn a living by jumping into what turn out to be a blatant scams, who not only spoke endless superlatives about those scams but also deflected, denied and flat out lied about legitimate criticism about their scams, yet as soon as the scams manifest malfeasance made recruiting fresh victims (and earning commissions for doing so) becomes too difficult, they jump into the next scam.

Rinse, lather and repeat, again and again.

So after years of promising the moon, saying “this time for sure” and hyping the crap out of scams about to be flushed we have DagCoin.

The “leaders” are promising the moon. They’re saying “this time for sure and they’re hyping the crap out of DagCoin.

Please, in your own words tell us why the very well established pattern is not going to repeat.

Tell us why DagCoin is any less flushable than any of the many scams, promoted by the same crew, that have gone down the drain already.

CryptoForWealth:
What if you’re right and I’m completely brainwashed. You somehow get entertainment from this. You would get entertainment from me being so misguided and wasting so much of my precious life, energy and resources?

THAT is TRAGIC. (not entertaining at all)

The entertaining part is you suggesting that Oz, who has written thousands of articles over many years, doesn’t know what he is talking about – and you do.

Also adding, that you think “a positive outlook” somehow makes up for committing Ponzi fraud. Or that, you completely disregard the fact that DagCoin is run by a former OneCoin Ponzi pimp and you seemingly trust him over Oz. That’s funny, no?

Tip: Con men would not be successful without convincing others their scams were legit. Think about it. They have played you and for that I’m sorry – for you.

The paradox you present as, intelligent and ignorant, intrigues me. Don’t worry. You are not alone. Many of your types have come here over the years. It’s just another day, and another lost dollar to Ponzi fraud in the land of OZ.

Want to know what is tragic? That you think this is a legit business while the pimps are laughing at you all the way to their offshore bank because you are “giving” them your money. THAT is TRAGIC!

Sorry Oz – but in order for a Ponzi to be real – wherein – newly invested funds pay off existing investors – the fundamental piece that makes that a truth is that there isn’t an actual product or offering with real value

False.

The sole determining factor of a Ponzi scheme is the use of newly invested funds to pay off existing investors.

And don’t bother trying to post marketing spam here. You don’t get to ignore the fact DagCoin is a Ponzi scheme and push irrelevant marketing.

CryptoForWealth:
As for Paygety – yes not the strongest site for sure – but getting stronger. (IE: Forward movement)

Let’s discuss a moment about Paygety (i.e. what you called forward movement):

In April Paygety started providing trading for DAG to bitcoins. The price was the SAME 1€ / DAG the investors have paid for their DAGs (converted to BTC in current bitcoin price). Day after day after day the site had “today’s limit has been exhausted” – signs on it so trading was not possible.

Then on 30th of April the limits were removed.

INSTANTLY the price dropped – first to 0.67€ / DAG. Then to 0.50€ Then to 0.35€. 0.20€.

The bottom was somewhere around 0.17€ / DAG.

Slight recovery to 0.20€ / DAG has happened, apparently the pain limit for selling is 1/5th of what the investors paid when they bought their coins.

It’ll be a good idea to watch Paygety after the new coin is introduced (very soon) and the ’10X split’ happens.

The price will drop to $0.10 simply because there is more coins in circulation – but then will begin to rise. this reduction on Paygety is in anticipation of this ‘split’ and automated price reduction.

The real test will be how fast does Dagcoin run from $0.10 back up to $1.00 EURO and beyond.

BeyondBitcoin: this reduction on Paygety is in anticipation of this ‘split’ and automated price reduction.

The real test will be how fast does Dagcoin run from $0.10 back up to $1.00 EURO and beyond.

Ummm… Nope. The drop on price happened as the very next thing to free trading, not as a very next thing to announced new “chain”.

But let’s – for the sake of argument – assume you are right about that one. (Because it really does not matter in the end.) Why would the price get an increase?

With the new chain two things have changed:
1) There are 9 times as many coins available for new investors as before.
2) Old members have 10 times the coins with 1/9th of the price per coin.

Due to the case 1), the availability of the coin for new investors is better, so the scarcity of the coin cannot cause an increase of the price. Quite the opposite – if there ever was a pressure for the price increase due to looming end of the supply, it is now gone – 9-fold. If anything, there is oversupply of the coins which will decrease the price even further.

Due to case 2) an existing member that had bought 100 DAG for 100 euros can now sell them for 0.10 euro/DAG instead of the “official” 0.11 euro price and still get the same money he/she would have got by selling the coins for 1 euro/DAG before the 10-fold increase. This automatically will readjust the price down to 0.10 euro/DAG from the expected 0.11 euro/DAG.

Both of the changes only participate to price DECREASE, not price increase.

But hey, enjoy your coins. Don’t hold your breath while you wait for the price to increase back to 1.00 euro/DAG.

1) As with any coin – more people see it as appealing when the price is low. (stocks use this ‘split strategy’ all the time. IE: A stock price per share get’s to high so they use a stock split to decrease the price per share – people see it as more affordable and buy.

2) Listing on Swipex (and seeing the number of active members on Swipex rising)

and again whit the merchants….. why oh why does the ponzitoken collecters always refer to the merchants. merchants actually devolve the value of “intermediate” not increase it.

i guess anyone one person whit even a poor-great understanding of microeconomics stays as far a fuck away from ponzitokencollecters.

sad to say that its harder to trick my 1,5 year old that my thumb has disappeared then to trick a ponzitoken collector that “THE MERCHANTS ARE COMMIN, THE MERCHANTS ARE COMMING….” and that would be somthing positive….

I fully fully understand OZ and you have every right to be skeptical. This is why I say…

– Is it a OneCoin Clone?

OR…

– Is it what OneCoin promised and never delivered on?

I am watching them build this coin on GitHub (EVERYDAY)

They are saying they will release the new coin this week – and what is happening on GitHub is consistent with that. This is one of the things that is so much different with Dagcoin. You don’t have to take their word for it. The code is Open Source and so we can ‘watch them’ actually build the coin.

We are literally days (maybe even hours) away from knowing for certain….

Yep. You invest and the same guys who stole your money in OneCoin steal your invested funds when they withdraw their DagCoin points.

I am watching them build this coin on GitHub (EVERYDAY)

DagCoin launched nearly a year ago. What you’re seeing is smoke and mirrors.

On the money side of things the same OneCoin scammers are still withdrawing your money.

Whether they exit-scam with some script generated altcoin in the end doesn’t matter. While it’s running as an MLM company DagCoin has the same core OneCoi Ponzi investment mechanic driving the business model.

I did NOT join OneCoin as I saw scam indicators. Dagcoin is different although I had to look real close to see it.

Yes – things have taken time – but ‘real stuff’ is showing up, so it’s not smoke and mirrors it’s frkn delayed – which is not unusual in the tech space.

OneCoin was owned by Dr. Ruja Ignatova

Dagcoin is owned by Nils Grossberg – who was with OneCoin for a few months, realised it wasn’t real and decided to deliver what was promised. YES – that did attract OneCoin leaders – which would be natural.

So it is NOT the same people – taking anyone’s money much-less mine.

But I ‘get’ you don’t like the model – but that doesn’t mean it’s not legit and the biggest factor in that is a real coin. Time is ticking on validating that or not. 🙂

@BeyondBitcoin – Best of luck, but aside from selling Securities, we’ve never seen a single MLM coin which hasn’t either crashed immediately when put in an open market, or collapsed entirely.

Part of this is due to the following, in my observation (and some specific to this case, exactly):

1.) It’s a “Club Coin” for a club that club members primarily invested in for the purpose of ROI, exclusively. What appeal does this have to outside investors?

2.) There are already much more mature DAG coins using Directed Acyclic Graph technology with robust and accomplished teams of well known engineers and computer scientists. Several, in fact. IOTA being a potentialy superior technologic solution with exactly zero fees. Yep. ZERO FEES.

3.) “The Law of Pump & Dump” in a binary, recruitment-based crypto brings an exponentially worse and already lambasted issue to the “Token Economics” side of the coin. Similar to the MLM recruitment side, I’d assume early investors (maybe 1-3%) control an inordinate percentage of the circulating pot.

The result is typically collusion and buy/ sell market manipulation (with FUD dumps and FOMO pumps, enriching top bag holders by dangling the carrot for invested club members to sell off on dips and buy back in on highs). In an open market MLM coins rarely exceed a few dead cat bounces before everyone gets spooked and throws in the towel.

4.) The stigma of Onecoin association of top affiliates/ owner will prohibit it from ever entering a reputable Exchange (and anyone knowledgeable of crypto will avoid like the plague, anyway).

The elephant in the room is this: Is it even possible to ‘MLM money?’

We sure haven’t seen it yet, and I can’t envision any scenario for which it will work. 99% have always lost money (and always will).

BeyondBitcoin:
I did NOT join OneCoin as I saw scam indicators. Dagcoin is different although I had to look real close to see it.

Yeah, like:

– having sole ownership to the full supply of the coins (effectively rendering the coin value to $0 for the company itself).

– selling education and handing coins away for free in the process (no problem as they have all the coins in the world).

– recruiting new investors with the same people who had no problem whatsoever to scam people with OneCoin. (And it is YES the same people, BTW.)

– Handing bonus coins (10% for a limited time etc.) for no benefit whatsoever for the company or the coin. (Because in a real world it would eat the value of the coin. In DagLand it does not.)

– Having a coin value that can only be preserved in an “internal” exchange.

– growth forecasts based on promises like “when there will be a listing on Swipex”, “when there will be an announcement of legit merchants”, (when, when, when…)

– Promising but not delivering.

Besides, it does not matter a bit whether the “coin” can be used in a way or another (see OneCoin and DealShaker). If you promise profits to people and pay them for subsequent investor money, it is a Ponzi fraud.

Charles Ponzi said he had legitimate stamp selling business fueling the money flow.

What is really important, describes BeyondBitcoin in very small font at the bottom of his website:

I am not a financial advisor. None of the information here should be taken as any more of financial advice. Only invest in Crypto Currency what you can afford to lose.
None of the information on this site is approved by the Dagcoin company. It is merely my personal opinion and or experience.

These days it’s quite easy to spot the new Ponzi scams, just look at the names of the people on the top involved.

Guys like Kari, Igor, Kent,Ken, Nils, Iulian and the list goes on and on are serial scammers jumping from Onecoin to another fake coin.

Dagcoin now and they keep doing what they do best once they’ve tasted the easy money, that is stealing money from idiots, easy believers, desperate people or greedy bastards like themselves.

Maybe we should one day come up with a blacklist of serical scammers, people that were involved in at least 2 Ponzi scams and put it out there for people to find.

As you know, you’re involved once you could be a victim (not when you made a lot of money of course, like poor Igor and his wife) but when you are in twice, you know what you are doing and you are a scammer pure simple easy.

Everybody here on this conversation can easy provide 10 names I guess to put on that list.

The technology behind Dagcoin seems to be valid. That is: there is no simulation or fabrication of coins.

And so was the case with BitConnect. Open exchange of the BitConnect coin brought the price down from $400 PonziCoin to $1 altcoin. Too bad for anyone who “invested” into the Ponzi scheme for a price of $1 to $400 per coin.

Having a valid technology does not “un-Ponzi” a scheme that pays returns from later invested funds.

Having a “real coin” just means they actually copied an existing coin’s setup.

Many different coins are based on Bitcoin, Ethereum, or other blockchain setup, albeit modified. It may be “real” in the sense that it has blockchain, it can be mined by the public, and it can even be exchanged on some exchanges, but that just means it’s a fringe altcoin, little else.

And anyone can start one. It takes a whole team of experts and developers solving a real need to make a coin successful.

Otto, I don’t agree fully on you that the technology behind Dagcoin seems valid. I mean, yes, they do have a blockchain but they just toss it out of the window to replace it with an entire new one if they damn well please to do so.

A valid cryptocurrency would never do so. If a valid crypto wants to change the way their blockchain works, they do a hard fork.

As you might know a blockchain is essentially a ledger. Tossing out your ledger to replace it with a blank one is really convienient if you want to launder money or do other fraudulent activity.

Dagcoin tossing out their blockchain when they aren’t even on any public exchange in order to increase their supply from 1 billion to 9 billion is just a presage that they repeat this in the future. This is a mayor red flag, on top of all the red flags listed in Oz’ article.

And CryptoForWealth, would you please just take a few crypto for dummies lessons? You’re not making any sense at all.

I think what Otto was getting at is whereas OneCoin had a very MYSQL vibe to it, there’s at least a cryptocurrency script behind Dagcoin – which is verifiable tech.

I don’t know if they’re still doing it but when the OneCoin top scammers jumped ship, the general pitch was, “Look, we have blockchain!” Igor Alberts in particular made a big deal about this.

In order to dismantle the tech argument you have to point out that even with legitimate blockchain tech, using newly invested funds to pay off existing investors through internal points is still Ponzi fraud.

Even if those points are powered by a blockchain.

As long as the points are private (not a real cryptocurrency), Dagcoin can restart the script and allocate generated points as many times as they want.

BitConnect was brought up as an example of this model going public, seeing as they have an actual blockchain and all.

Same old “collect ROI from an internal exchange” Ponzi model underneath it though. And that lead to $2.4 billion in monopoly money losses when BitConnect’s admins turned off the internal exchange.

People only invest and believe in the made up internal value if they can withdraw the points (steal money from people who invested after them). Once that’s turned off, nobody cares and the actual value is revealed (50 cents to $1 in the case of BitConnect).

This is the only reason OneCoin/Dagcoin aren’t publicly tradeable.

Sadly you’ll have a hard time getting any MLM Ponzi points investor to acknowledge this. Their internal points use a unique snowflake altcoin that can’t fail… until it inevitably does.

A blockchain has to be decentralized in order to qualify for being a blockchain. The Dagcoin chain is centralized, with Dagcoin itself being the sole owner, even having the power to discard the blockchain entirely.

This makes is no different than the mysql database that Onecoin used. It just looks more real, but it really isn’t.

Oz:
I think what Otto was getting at is whereas OneCoin had a very MYSQL vibe to it, there’s at least a cryptocurrency script behind Dagcoin – which is verifiable tech.
…
In order to dismantle the tech argument you have to point out that even with legitimate blockchain tech, using newly invested funds to pay off existing investors through internal points is still Ponzi fraud.

they are flocking in the caribbean and africa taking the monies of poor uneducated people. they make us believe that if we dont take the offer we are small minded and thats y we never get rich.

people take out their life savings and fixed deposits to fund this scam. when you buy a package you are harrassed to introduce more people in order for you to get commisions.

they dont care if you want to be passive. they make you feel so lazy and incompetent for not bringing in as many people as you can.

lots of profits will be made, but the poor people wont see any of it. i am so sorry for these people.

i wish someone who is very social would operate social media and other platforms to reach all these people to educate them on how they are being fooled cause all they are exposed to is dagcoin.com and their facebook pages.

They need to see more of this info somewhere. i am searching and theres very little dagcoin info anywhere. sad.

In fact those peoples who claim dat they know much about network marketing are all being screwed to this scam n these peoples are trying everything possible to bring more peoples on board using their marketing skills.

On their dagcoin presentation forms they have formulated a huge ROI on their investment packages promising over 1000% returns after de eight month period. Totally an absurd increments yet peoples hv invested n are encouraging their colleagues to join as well just for a referral bonus.

FT: I’d expect the rate to drop way below 0.01 EUR / DAG very soon in order to provide everyone with the free tokens.

Well there are now basically four different “prices” for DAGs:

1. If you buy an – ahem – “educational package”, you get DAGs for 0.11 EUR/DAG. This is “the official price”.

2. If you buy or sell in the internal exchange (fueled by the commission percentages that are mandatory to use for buying DAGs), the price has been moving between 0.04 EUR/DAG and 0.07 EUR/DAG.

3. If you go to Paygety “external exchange”, you can see the price is the official 0.11 EUR/DAG but the site has been “under maintenance” since 9th of May (almost for 7 weeks) so selling/buying with that price is impossible. Before maintenance the price plummeted the moment the trading started.

4. If you go to Swipex “external exchange”, you can see that many people would like to sell, even for such a low price as 0.04 EUR/DAG.

Unfortunately only few want to buy… The highest bid so far being 0.0235 EUR/DAG. There is no visible data in the site about past trading (how many DAGs sold, for which price, etc.) so one can only assume that the supply and demand do not meet.

The big difference between the DagCoin and OneCoin is that Dag seems to actually have a legitimate coin behind it. You could – if you would want to – create a dag wallet and accept Dags from someone.

This never was possible with OneCoin, you first needed a “membership” and then the transfers were limited to be done between upline and downline and in limited quantities only.

Of course the whole setup is retarded: DagCoin has had all 9 000 000 000 DAGs pre-mined in their possession. After the coins they have – ahem – “given as a bonus along education”, they still have more than all the members combined, multiplied.

DagCoin the company can sell as many of those as they wish, when they wish (assuming there would be a day when there were buyers). Therefore they could crash the coin value at will (if there was some value to crash).

I still would like to know several things about the DagCoin technology though:

– are there some special nodes that hold the copies of DagChain or does every mobile application hold a full copy?

– there are supposed to be transaction fees, to whom are those paid to? The one that happens to make next transaction? Have the members seen these payments having been paid to them?

– what happened to the coins of those members who decided not to trust to the goodwill of the DagCoin company and did not move their coins to the new chain?

Interesting tidbit on DagCoin price for an investor – I mean “an affiliate that wants to get educated”:

Originally the coins were available 100 DAGs for 100 EUR “educational package”. Hence the original “educatees” have bought the coins for 1 EUR / DAG.

The number of coins was increased 9-fold recently and at the process price was cut to 1/9 – equaling 0.11 EUR / DAG).

The coins already owned by investors were multiplied by 10, meaning that those DAGs bought for 100 euros were now supposed to be 110 euros worth.

Ever since there has been all kinds of new campaigns to sell more education. With the current prices the DAGs can be obtained along education package for 0.08 EUR / DAG or – in case of most expensive package – for 0.02 EUR / DAG.

With these prices the amount of DAGs that match to that 100 EUR “investment” from the early days can be bought for 80 EUR (or for 20 EUR at cheapest).

That’s a 20% to 80% price cut. Wow.

With the prices in use at the internal exchange those DAGs could be sold for 40 EUR.

With the prices in use at “Dagcoin-founded external exchanges” (LOL), those coins could be sold for 30 EUR to 60 EUR.

All this assuming there is someone buying, the 24h volumes are about 1 BTC, not sounding like there was a huge demand for worthless Ponzi-coins.

In addition to that it is unknown whether the profits gained could actually be cashed out – withdrawal from the internal exchange (and also from the “external” exchanges seems to need a KYC identification very similar to what OneCoin had.

I have to assume that the weekly ROIs (which are also paid in worthless DAGcoins) manage to make up the price difference between buying education and selling DAGs. I would be quite upset if my “investment” would have lost 40% to 70% of its value.

DagCoin tangle explorer shows that majority of the 9 billion DAGcoins from initial node have been eventually moved to this address:

NOLINK://explorer.dagcoin.link/#7HR6DJAXWWAJJHNJRE4Q56RP3PC35LYQ

Stored in this address are 8 939 999 898.998116 DAGcoins as of today (November 9th 2018).

8.94 billion DAGs in that address.

That leaves 60 million DAGs to DagCoin affiliates.

There are over 80 million DAGcoins for sale in the internal exchange as we speak.

Apparently DagCoin has already given to the members over 133% of the coins they have recorded in their “Dagchain”. This results to few facts that simply cannot be denied no matter the will to do so:

1. The “Dagchain” is not used for handling the DagCoins of the investors.

2. As an unavoidable result of the bullet “1.”: the balances of the DagCoin members are stored in some other kind of database than the “Dagchain” DAG tangle.

3. Ergo: the DagCoin is not a cryptocurrency at all, it’s just a database of account balances of the members.

We can now see that the DagCoin company does not have anything to do with cryptocurrency, they just take money from people and add interest to their account balances.

This mode of operation may be familiar to people here, it’s called “bank”.

(If you invested to DagCoin you may need to Google up this “bank” thing, apparently you were not familiar with it.)

Few exceptions towards traditional banks exist, though. E.g. the traditional banks do not multiply the savings of their clients by an order of magnitude for no obvious benefit.

Also the traditional banks do not intentionally prevent clients from withdrawing the money. And the traditional banks are especially forbidden from paying the interests from the savings of other clients.

Success Factory FAQ in backoffice actually tries to explain this 7 day limit. The logic (or lack of it) is:

What is the 7 days rule in the market?

Your coins will remain active for 7 days, starting from the moment you put them up for sale in the exchange. If there is no buyer during those 7 days, your coins will automatically return back to your account. Later on, you still have the option to put them up for sale for another 7 days.

This function is meant to keep the market fresh, so anyone has the chance to get coins traded no matter how early or late are registered in the exchange.

NOLINK://https://office.successfactory.com/en/member/faq/questions

But you are right – since coins within the Success Factory system are not recorded anywhere, Nils is not tied by the maximum amount of 9 billion while selling them. Actually he could sell 10 billion, 11 billion or 90 billion coins to the investors and nobody would know. At least not unless people would try to transfer their coins to their wallets and more than 9 billion coins would be needed to be recorded to the DagChain.

Such a mass of transfers will never happen because coins can only be sold in Success Factory and coins moved from Success Factory to a DagWallet can no longer be moved back to the Success Factory.

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