Looks like its the same as the EVO monitor but its LED...am guessing that would proly give it a tiny bit more lag... but if its almost the same as the EVO monitor ill proly pick this up since its around the same price...

isnt it funny how a game that represents an old-school era such as sf4 actually needs or should be played on tube tv sets for no lag..... lol....thats sick.

You could just see it now ...36" SONY Trinitrons at all the future EVO's

E3 1999 Staples Center: Immediately after Capcoms Alpha 3 tournament, which we apparently just missed....2 friends and I line up to the left of the main stage, hop on that alpha tre, we take almost a good 30 games straight from group of East Asian players.
Its after a 22 hit Akuma tatsu juggle to end 1st match, the Japanese guy on P2, looks over and says " Damn its like that?" as I jump on, Im laughing quietly shrugging my shoulders. My friend goes "Hell ya fool! Wattup!? " and begins full up-rock, windmill to continuation and then pops back up in a bboy stance. Asian press chick/gf with them takes a couple pics of us and a couple of them and us. Later asks if we knew the guys we just beat...get this......Japans 2-8 aka Worlds 2-?? at that time? GTFO! i didnt follow any tourney shit, back then. We all laughed with a so what...a bit later them shrooms started kickin innnnnnn :-)
We also go on buying Ice T a drink a couple hours later, parlayed for a good min,got a photo w him and us, played like Sega rally or some shit with the dude. Hes a great guy btw....later we try to get Coolio stoned while following his lil click around trying to figure out for one if his hair was real and secondly,who the hell were these dudes he was with,because these dudes were NOT in the Fantastic Voyage, or Gangsters Paradise videos and we kept asking them to spit something, we were beat boxing for some lady at Zoopit...??? wtf? where'd they go??? lol... We close out the night heckling Jay Leno, his chin and jeans as he gets ready to do some bs tech show interview , like pre tech TV

Looks like its the same as the EVO monitor but its LED...am guessing that would proly give it a tiny bit more lag... but if its almost the same as the EVO monitor ill proly pick this up since its around the same price...

With all due respect, this isn't a "what do you think of ____" thread. It's not about guessing or assuming, and it's not about further obscuring useful information by having every third post be somebody asking for details of one of the hundreds of models out there. This thread is about compiling actual information so all that won't be necessary. If you don't see test results posted, then consider "nothing" what people think about it thus far.

I personally tried the VE278Q and noticed input lag (I currently use a BenQ E2400 HD which weigh in at around 7 - 8 ms average input lag). The VX2753mh-LED is my target screen but I cannot find any concrete stats for it.

They never reviewed the P42S30 they reviewed the P42ST30 (The 3D enabled model which had under a frame of lag in 2D mode), the S30 is lacking 3D so I'd say there is a very high chance the input lag is sub 1 frame. Only way to really find out is for you to test it. :P

I personally tried the VE278Q and noticed input lag (I currently use a BenQ E2400 HD which weigh in at around 7 - 8 ms average input lag). The VX2753mh-LED is my target screen but I cannot find any concrete stats for it.

Yea I was looking at the VX2739wm but they seem to be hard to find now. If you find any lag stats on the VX2753mh-LED please let me know because I am also looking at this one but am hesitant to purchase it until I know how many ms of input lag it has.

Can anyone tell me what are some of the best big screen TVs for fighting games? I know the Bravia's are up there and some of the Panasonics as well, but how big can you go with TV's until lag becomes bad?

Can anyone tell me what are some of the best big screen TVs for fighting games? I know the Bravia's are up there and some of the Panasonics as well, but how big can you go with TV's until lag becomes bad?

they have splitters that output in dvi/vga, which may or may not work.
The point is, however, that clone mode doesn't produce accurate results.

neither would that splitter. Either your videocard outputs analog through a DB15 VGA port, or digital though a DVI or HDMI port. Putting your port to a splitter to both VGA and DVI would have to convert either an analog signal to digital or digital to analog (depending on what your videocard natively outputs in the first place). Either way one of the outputs will have some added lag due to the video feed having to go through a process to convert the signal to something the other than what it already is. Thus making said test unreliable.

Think of it this way if the videocard outputs digital through DVI and you have that going to an lcd screen which actually lags 32ms. Meanwhile the VGA port of the splitter goes through a conversion process of digital to analog which for the sake of this arguement takes 32ms (could be 1ms or 1sec, you don't know since you never bothered to test out this splitter). So now when you perform this test. You'll end up seeing that the timings for both the CRT and LCD are the same so you end up believing that its lag free. When in actuality it lags 32ms, but you couldn't tell because the splitter which converted the digital to analog also created lag.

Heck you might even get instances where the LCD would be rated faster than a CRT depending on how long the conversion process takes from the digital to analog.

That is assuming that the device you are using accepts digital signals over DVI only. (Which is why i said it "may or may not work")

The actual spec for DVI carries both Analog and digital signal (DVI-I). Not every device accepts that format though, and will only accept a digital DVI signal (DVI-D). Depends on the device being tested.

Once again, that is completely besides the point. The point, once again, is that clone mode does not produce accurate results.

First of all, the splitter has no DAC. It is just a wire. It HAS to use the DVI-I spec.

Secondly, the input is VGA (analog) not DVI. You are connecting it to the VGA out of your videocard, not DVI out. Even if it did, 99% of modern videocards support analog out through DVI (DVI-I).

There is no analog to digital processing on the splitter at all, that is up to the device to do (once again, if the device supports DVI-I spec at all.)

The part where you are getting confused is where you assume that the splitter does an analog to digital (VGA > DVI-D) or digital to analog (DVI-D > VGA) conversion. It does not, it has no circuitry to do so. The splitter works by splitting the analog incoming signal to VGA, and DVI's analog component (DVI-I).

Different types of DVI cable (Analog only DVI vs Digital DVI) are keyed differently. When I say it "may or may not work", I mean that the cable may not even fit (meaning the output device doesn't support that spec).

It has absolutely NOTHING to so with any processing lag because...there is no processing to be done.

That is my mistake because the digital/analog conversion is done on the motherboard/videocard (depending on if you have integrated graphic display or not).

Thus there is still potential for lag from the processing even if its done on the same port. Unless you can show me that the motherboard/graphics card holds the digital signal in a buffer until the analog signal is done being prepared and then sends them out in sync. Otherwise I'd be inclined to believe that the same problems that you have with 2 dvi ports in clone mode may be present even along the same port.

Besides that in a few years DVI will be discontinued and won't even be supported by videocards/motherboards who are opting for an all digital soluiton. Either being "Displayport" or HDMI. Thus to provide support for older analog systems such as a our baseline analog CRT monitors there will be a seperate transcoder being required thus forcing us into the realm that I stated above.

Damn I guess the Alienware Optx AW2210 is discontinued, so its out of the picture. I really like mine and caught it on sale for $170. I remember hearing it was slightly better than the Asus Evo monitor, just overly expensive. Now that they are discontinued for the newer 3D model, you may be able to snatch some up for cheap. Maybe Frys still has them http://www.frys.com/product/6279270?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

That is my mistake because the digital/analog conversion is done on the motherboard/videocard (depending on if you have integrated graphic display or not).

Thus there is still potential for lag from the processing even if its done on the same port. Unless you can show me that the motherboard/graphics card holds the digital signal in a buffer until the analog signal is done being prepared and then sends them out in sync. Otherwise I'd be inclined to believe that the same problems that you have with 2 dvi ports in clone mode may be present even along the same port.

Besides that in a few years DVI will be discontinued and won't even be supported by videocards/motherboards who are opting for an all digital soluiton. Either being "Displayport" or HDMI. Thus to provide support for older analog systems such as a our baseline analog CRT monitors there will be a seperate transcoder being required thus forcing us into the realm that I stated above.

Is there measured latency results for the hdfury? I would assume if that could be taken into account, an hdmi splitter with one input going through the hd fury into your crt would be a valid test.

I personally tried the VE278Q and noticed input lag (I currently use a BenQ E2400 HD which weigh in at around 7 - 8 ms average input lag). The VX2753mh-LED is my target screen but I cannot find any concrete stats for it.

Did you try adjusting the "Trace Free" option to 40 like they did? The review had my hopes up for a bit, but then I read your response haha.

Response time has nothing to do with input lag. This option is for adjusting the GTG settings.

But ya, compared with the BenQ E2400 HD and G2420 screens, I can feel lag on the VE278Q. I'm really hanging out for some [SIZE=12px]VX2753mh-LED figures.[/SIZE]

If you end up jumping the gun and getting the vx2753wm or find any info on it will you please let me know. I have a hard time believing digital versus because they said that the asus ve278q was lag free but I have read otherwise on the net. I wish they would provide numbers in ms instead of just saying no/low lag. I was thinking about the asus after their review until I read some user reviews around the net and saw the video on YouTube.

OK sorry if this isn't the place to ask but what's a good Sony HDTV for gaming? I've done a quick search on google, but the best I can find are the Sony KDL models, but they have 20-30 ms input lag.

"You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
"Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
"I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne

OK sorry if this isn't the place to ask but what's a good Sony HDTV for gaming? I've done a quick search on google, but the best I can find are the Sony KDL models, but they have 20-30 ms input lag.

Why does it have to be sony? And again, I'm not trying to be mean, but this thread is about compiling a database of displays and their test results, not for random requests or "hey, is this TV/monitor good?" This happened in the previous thread, and it ended up filled with junk and the same questions being asked over and over. Also, there were some Sony TVs recommended 6 posts before yours. The idea of this thread is to prevent people from popping in and asking the exact kind of question you just asked.

Why does it have to be sony? And again, I'm not trying to be mean, but this thread is about compiling a database of displays and their test results, not for random requests or "hey, is this TV/monitor good?"

Hah, sorry I just didn't think making a thread would've worked.
If it helps you could reply via a PM or Conversation. At any rate, their family bought this big Sony TV but it turned out to NOT be an HDTV, just a flat SDTV, and over here they could only trade it for another Sony (although I'm still asking around to see if there's a shop that'll trade it for another HDTV brand).
I'll check the previous posts too, thanks.

"You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
"Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
"I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne

Just thought I'd share some info. I opened my Alienware OptX 2210 monitor today and can state that it uses an AU Optronics M215HW01 V0 panel.
According to http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ , these monitors also use the same panel.

Hah, sorry I just didn't think making a thread would've worked.
If it helps you could reply via a PM or Conversation. At any rate, their family bought this big Sony TV but it turned out to NOT be an HDTV, just a flat SDTV, and over here they could only trade it for another Sony (although I'm still asking around to see if there's a shop that'll trade it for another HDTV brand).
I'll check the previous posts too, thanks.

Well, that's a good reason to go Sony. Maybe one of those above mentioned models is available where they are.

So, this idea is awesome and a longtime coming. One of the biggest problems with the HDTV thread right now is the signal to noise ratio is simply astounding. I would really hate it if this thread turned into the same sort of thing. I would love to see some aggressive moderation on this where all of the "lol, is tihs a gud monitor?!?!?!?" crap is cut out so we don't end up wading through 1589 pages of crap posts for the good discussion and useful links.

From what I've read, all W, X and Z panels from Sony's 2009 4x range were superb. I was quite lucky to get mine as factory refurbs a while after they were discontinued. The 32 doesn't have Game Mode, but the higher-end panels do - including my 46. Obviously you need to enable it if it's available. I disabled every processing option on both.

Fantastic TVs IMHO; they're the best LCDs I've seen and owned by a long way. There is a warning: clouding. It was very common on their 2009 range, so I'd recommend playing a dark DVD if you're looking to buy one second-hand. My 32's perfect, while the 46 has one relatively minor patch. As a refurb I had no option of an exchange, but I can only see it during very dark scenes and I use it for gaming much more than films.

Nice work! I added the 32" model to the list. If you could somehow do another test with 46" model and post the pictures I would be happy to add it to the list.

Most low response TFT panels between 16-23" are going to be under 1 frame. It's not hard to find a low response monitor there's hundreds and hundreds of them out there.

Use DigitalVersus.com to confirm, they do input test on most of their reviews.

The problem I have with digital versus is their results are different than what other sources (such as tft central and forum users) report. Even the new monitor I purchased (LG IPS231P) they state input lag 16.5ms avg but tftcentral reported avg input lag (6.9ms) was easily in line with my own testing and digital versus was off. Maybe their test method is simply not as accurate.

"Input lag on this model ranged from 0ms, 17ms and 34ms, between which the values ​​of 0 and 17 ms were most common, while rarely appearing value of 34ms. "

So it looks like it would be a pretty good gaming monitor. Do you think by what this says it would be considered a sub 1 frame? I guess it would depend on an average of how many 0, 17, and 34 he actually got?

Most low response TFT panels between 16-23" are going to be under 1 frame. It's not hard to find a low response monitor there's hundreds and hundreds of them out there.

Use DigitalVersus.com to confirm, they do input test on most of their reviews.

I pulled up a bunch of reviews on that site from the last 6 months, and none of them showed measurements of input lag, only ghosting (panel response time). All of the statements regarding input lag were perception-based, like:

Finally, there is some input lag, but it's so small as to be invisible to the naked eye. That means the E2473HDS won't be holding you back when gaming online or at a LAN party.

The input lag is perfectly standard, and below the threshold of human perception.

The input lag, on the other hand, is within average with just a very slight delay that isn't noticeable to the naked eye.

The problem I have with digital versus is their results are different than what other sources (such as tft central and forum users) report. Even the new monitor I purchased (LG IPS231P) they state input lag 16.5ms avg but tftcentral reported avg input lag (6.9ms) was easily in line with my own testing and digital versus was off. Maybe their test method is simply not as accurate.

First time I've hear'd this. I know sometimes their reviews are out of date because companies produce the same model of monitor/tv but maybe change the screen without changing the model number. Sometimes also they do tests but miss out on some functions on the TV such as seen here...

o it looks like it would be a pretty good gaming monitor. Do you think by what this says it would be considered a sub 1 frame? I guess it would depend on an average of how many 0, 17, and 34 he actually got?

you would need to know the frequency of the 17 and 34ms photos in comparison to 0ms to work out an average. (which the review does not state)

First time I've hear'd this. I know sometimes their reviews are out of date because companies produce the same model of monitor/tv but maybe change the screen without changing the model number. Sometimes also they do tests but miss out on some functions on the TV such as seen here...

But I've never hear'd of them of having a reputation for being just flat out wrong.

Wow, this site design wise to get information is a bit of mess. I was referring to their monitor tests since you said

Most low response TFT panels between 16-23" are going to be under 1 frame. It's not hard to find a low response monitor there's hundreds and hundreds of them out there.

Use DigitalVersus.com to confirm, they do input test on most of their reviews

And now you linked to HDTV test. When I get some free time later I will most deff go through their HDTV tests and see if I can compare with results from around the web. They might end up being good source for HDTV input lag tests.

46ms is normal for a 40inch hdtv. It's not a horrible tv but it will have a frame or two of input delay which is not too bad for most console games. But for fighting games you should be looking at small sized tft monitors around 16-23".

46ms is normal for a 40inch hdtv. It's not a horrible tv but it will have a frame or two of input delay which is not too bad for most console games. But for fighting games you should be looking at small sized tft monitors around 16-23".

I'm mainly looking for 22- 32 inches for just myself because I'd like to do other stuff than fighting. If I want the 0-20ms though I have to go with a LCD apparently? Because looking at that site most of the LCD's are averaging between 10-16 ms and the lowest I"ve seen for a LED tv is at 32ms.

The smallest HDTV is a 32". My purpose is really twofold. I want to use my SNES on my TV too so I need a coax connection. I can't have a huge TV in my room either. I would have just sucked it up and picked up an EVO monitor but that coax is really important. Additionally I heard the sound on it wasn't so hot.