Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK (n/t) on 17:09 - Oct 18 by Batterseajack

So it hasn't happened then.

Von der Leyen is a well known supporter of forming an EU army. The current German defence minister allegedly backs it too. When we were told it was never going to happen, it was being talked about behind closed doors. Maybe they were just waiting for the right timing but the news got out and proved Nick Clegg to be a big feckin liar!

Now the veto, it will depend on whether we are still members but they'll wait til we're out and they'll probably have tried to change the voting systen so QMV applies everywhere because it's the only way they have a chance of grabbing tax powers away from nation states. When Verhofstadt said the way to prevent more exits was for the EU to grab more Sovereignty from the nations state members, many derided him but it looks like that's where they are heading. If the people at the top get their way it'll be the hotel California!

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK (n/t) on 17:21 - Oct 18 by Catullus

Von der Leyen is a well known supporter of forming an EU army. The current German defence minister allegedly backs it too. When we were told it was never going to happen, it was being talked about behind closed doors. Maybe they were just waiting for the right timing but the news got out and proved Nick Clegg to be a big feckin liar!

Now the veto, it will depend on whether we are still members but they'll wait til we're out and they'll probably have tried to change the voting systen so QMV applies everywhere because it's the only way they have a chance of grabbing tax powers away from nation states. When Verhofstadt said the way to prevent more exits was for the EU to grab more Sovereignty from the nations state members, many derided him but it looks like that's where they are heading. If the people at the top get their way it'll be the hotel California!

So it hasn't happened then

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:29 - Oct 18 with 859 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:09 - Oct 18 by Batterseajack

Well I'd be claiming expenses at work if i incurred cost due to a change in work circumstances.

I’ve never been in any job that will pay childcare costs. A work nursery maybe (not always free), but that’s only in larger organisations. Westminster has a nursery anyway - they could easily have opened it up for relatively little cost compared to paying out expenses.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:34 - Oct 18 with 852 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:29 - Oct 18 by LeonWasGod

I’ve never been in any job that will pay childcare costs. A work nursery maybe (not always free), but that’s only in larger organisations. Westminster has a nursery anyway - they could easily have opened it up for relatively little cost compared to paying out expenses.

They should bring their toddlers in to work with them. Might get a more coherent debate.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK (n/t) on 17:23 - Oct 18 by Batterseajack

So it hasn't happened then

When is a Veto not a Veto, is when it is used as a deterrent, we have told them we would use the veto on numerous occasions. Which is how it should be used until they actually call it to a vote. Which they won't do all the time we are members and threaten the veto.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK (n/t) on 19:15 - Oct 18 with 747 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK (n/t) on 18:28 - Oct 18 by A_Fans_Dad

When is a Veto not a Veto, is when it is used as a deterrent, we have told them we would use the veto on numerous occasions. Which is how it should be used until they actually call it to a vote. Which they won't do all the time we are members and threaten the veto.

A great chess player from the 1920s named Aaron Nimsowitsch often wrote that The threat is stronger than the execution., you have to defend yourself so much from one possible attack that you have to weaken your position elsewhere.

But what Johnson has done is to cave in on Northern Ireland and in return the EU have made the pledge to uphold workers' rights etc. advisory rather than mandatory.

This is a worse deal than May's was, and its only virtue is that it's better than a No Deal. Accept it and it won't be catastrophic, our economy will just go into a steady, gentle decline as France overtakes us.

Biggest example ever of a country shooting itself in the foot so that it can run faster.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:20 - Oct 18 by exiledclaseboy

Anyone else planning on sitting in front of BBC Parliament tomorrow at 9.30 and not moving until the entertainment ends? I may even buy some popcorn.

I've been trying to get my head around the Letwin amendment as I just couldn't see the logic of it. But, as I understand it, if it passes I think it means we extend, there isn't a vote to pass the deal and instead we head to a general election.

Edit - and it looks very likely the Letwin amendment will indeed pass.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:46 - Oct 18 by Catullus

Kerouac, I'm not sure why you bother. I've been here with Lisa and ECB. According to them the deal was never reopened and Clasie said I just didn't understand.

It doesn't matter how much evidence you supply, they will not adjust their positions. Sajid David said it was reopened, I have posted links to several media sources saying it was reopened but we are apparently not bright enough to understand the nuanced language!

So when Adler says they clearly did reopen the agreement it means they didn't, never did, never would. There are only so many circles you can go around before you come to the conclusion further attempts are wasted time.

I also posted links (one from the EU itself) proving EU law takes primacy over UK law but they won't have that either.

You can carry on wasting your time or accept it the way it is and move on.

“I've been here with Lisa and ECB. According to them the deal was never reopened and Clasie said I just didn't understand.”

I’m not sure I’ve ever opined on whether the withdrawal agreement was reopened or not. Feel free to prove me wrong, I can’t be sure.

On your second point, you could fill Wikipedia with the things you don’t understand. You continually prove that you’ve no idea what you’re talking about. Even to the extent of providing links that say the opposite of what you think they say.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:24 - Oct 18 by Uxbridge

I've been trying to get my head around the Letwin amendment as I just couldn't see the logic of it. But, as I understand it, if it passes I think it means we extend, there isn't a vote to pass the deal and instead we head to a general election.

Edit - and it looks very likely the Letwin amendment will indeed pass.

[Post edited 18 Oct 2019 19:26]

If the Letwin amendment passes the legally required “meaningful vote” approval of the withdrawal agreement isn’t fulfilled until the legislation ratifying the treaty is passed. Johnson would then be required under the Benn Act to request an extension. Bercow has to select the amendment first.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:32 - Oct 18 by exiledclaseboy

If the Letwin amendment passes the legally required “meaningful vote” approval of the withdrawal agreement isn’t fulfilled until the legislation ratifying the treaty is passed. Johnson would then be required under the Benn Act to request an extension. Bercow has to select the amendment first.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:34 - Oct 18 by Uxbridge

Which I'd be amazed if he doesn't.

Me too. It’s a sensible safety net given as some of the ERG have already indicated that they could vote for the deal at this stage so that the Benn Act is nullified and then scupper it during the legislative process to bring about a no deal by default.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:36 - Oct 18 by exiledclaseboy

Me too. It’s a sensible safety net given as some of the ERG have already indicated that they could vote for the deal at this stage so that the Benn Act is nullified and then scupper it during the legislative process to bring about a no deal by default.

Johnson has rather reaped what he's sown on this. You can't expect people to put blind trust in you with his record.

Will be interesting what this means for an EU extension. Will it be long enough for a GE?

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK (n/t) on 19:15 - Oct 18 by Glyn1

A great chess player from the 1920s named Aaron Nimsowitsch often wrote that The threat is stronger than the execution., you have to defend yourself so much from one possible attack that you have to weaken your position elsewhere.

But what Johnson has done is to cave in on Northern Ireland and in return the EU have made the pledge to uphold workers' rights etc. advisory rather than mandatory.

This is a worse deal than May's was, and its only virtue is that it's better than a No Deal. Accept it and it won't be catastrophic, our economy will just go into a steady, gentle decline as France overtakes us.

Biggest example ever of a country shooting itself in the foot so that it can run faster.

[Post edited 18 Oct 2019 19:18]

I agree, except for the Clean Break being worse. And we will still be playing in to this club that we will no longer be able to use and have no control over. A great deal indeed for the EU.

[Post edited 18 Oct 2019 19:43]

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:44 - Oct 18 with 673 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:41 - Oct 18 by Uxbridge

Johnson has rather reaped what he's sown on this. You can't expect people to put blind trust in you with his record.

Will be interesting what this means for an EU extension. Will it be long enough for a GE?

The Benn Act mandates asking for an extension until 31 January next year. More than enough for an election or referendum if the EU agrees, which they will for one of those two events despite the posturing.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:44 - Oct 18 by exiledclaseboy

The Benn Act mandates asking for an extension until 31 January next year. More than enough for an election or referendum if the EU agrees, which they will for one of those two events despite the posturing.

Well that would be peachy. Or at least a lot better than the alternative. Still think a GE is too blunt an instrument for a single issue.

In all this nonsense, we’ve missed the latest idiocy from Raab who’s claiming this is a “cracking deal” for N. Ireland because it gives them “frictionless access to the Single Market”. He’s an absolute feckwit 😂

The other thing he’s had to do today is admit the Foreign Office asked police to delay telling Harry Dunn's family Anne Sacoolas had left UK.

How is this idiot anywhere near a top job?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:45 - Oct 18 with 597 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:26 - Oct 18 by exiledclaseboy

“I've been here with Lisa and ECB. According to them the deal was never reopened and Clasie said I just didn't understand.”

I’m not sure I’ve ever opined on whether the withdrawal agreement was reopened or not. Feel free to prove me wrong, I can’t be sure.

On your second point, you could fill Wikipedia with the things you don’t understand. You continually prove that you’ve no idea what you’re talking about. Even to the extent of providing links that say the opposite of what you think they say.

Oh yes, like the links that say EU law takes primacy which you still deny.

See that pinch of salt on the floor........I'll take it with all your comments.