I have just purchased 200 NOS Russian tubes that I think Decware owner's will really enjoy rolling in their amplifiers!

It is a 6H2N, Russia's version of the 12AX7. Almost identicle in specs but with a 6.3 volt heater on pins 4,5 just like the 6N1P, 6DJ8, 6922 tubes you are now using. Difference is gain. The 6H2N will have aprox twice the gain.

That's interesting! I want to try them just because I can, but what do you expect the doubling of gain at that point will do to the overall balance, sound, tone, power, or anything else you can think of in a Zen C?

For those interested, you can get tubes cryo'd where I do http://www.cryoplus.com/ at a cost of $5.00 per tube with $20. minimum order. I am having four 6H2N-EB (Russian Spelling) 6N2P-EB or EV (English spelling) cryo'd by Kathi at CryoPlus. Found my tubes on the auction bay place and was pleased with the photos which showed quality construction from 1974 when the CCCP Soviet Union was still a powerhouse. Should be interesting. My Torii could use some extra gain.

Funny though, the spec sheets would almost have you believe the 6H2N/6N2P has half, not double the gain of a 6N1P as max dissipation in watts of each triode of a 6N1P is 2.2 watts and a 6N2P is 1 watt dissipation.

What will double the gain get you on the Select front tube? Won't distortion become a factor? I ask this question seriously because I do not know much about electronics. What I do know is that my Decware gear sounds "fabulous" (term borrowed from boead) and if Steve recommends it I will probably try it out. I would like to know what to expect though. Any comments?

First, I would like to please have a confirmation from Steve that the 6N2P does indeed have twice and not half the gain of a 6N1P as my reading of the specs makes me wonder.

Steve - Have you actually compared the 6N1P with 6N2P (6H2N - Russian spelling) to hear the gain difference?

If the 6N2P does indeed have twice the gain of a 6N1P, it will make your Select compatible with some low output devices that can't drive the Select very well with a 6N1P. Devices like low output customized CD players. Also, if you use a pre-amp with low gain, it may make quite a difference in your LP listening. What's possible are enhanced dynamics which are lost with lesser gain.

However, if you suffer no gain-related problems right now, I suspect you may find differences of flavor with this tube, but it will just be another tube to try among many others for what sound you prefer. But if Steve says it's good, it is likely worth a go. That's the fun thing about tube rolling -- it's generally fairly cheap and the results can be most interesting and every once in a while you stumble upon a tube that just seems right to balance the rest of your system sound.

And good to hear from you too. Well, I managed to confuse myself in trying to figure this out. Trying to un-confuse myself: to the extent of my russian anyway, the 6H2N and 6N2P are similar or the same tube (as you just stated). The 6H2P is quite different, apparently I looked it up in my own confusion.

Good research and good news - glad to hear the gain is about 3 times that of a 6922! I REALLY look forward to trying my new tubes once they arrive (first they go from Bulgaria to KathiCryo in Ohio and from Cryo treatment to me - about two or so weeks before I'll have them). My dear Torii I amp returned home to me after being away for 2 years with another owner. As it doesn't have the extra gain stage, the pumped 6N2P-EB (military grade) vintage 1974 tubes may be quite alot of fun as the gain was "just good enough" using a modded Sony 685 CDP. However, I run my modded Torii Testarossa without any feedback and it will really be interesting to see what these tubes can do. Yes, the amp is stable without feedback and sounds much better without it. But I also have extra filtering in this amp in the form of dual chokes per channel, so ripple and interstage supply problems are about nil. New tubes! This should be fun! Of course, if it's a dud with my amp, so be it, but maybe, just maybe ......hope springs eternal --

Thanks. Getting an amp back like this was a welcome and totally unexpected pleasure as I never did get the time to assemble myself another amp using the same schematic (and all cost-no-object parts). Still have the parts sitting in boxes waiting for my attention.

Yup, for sure I'll post on what the cryo'd 6N2P-EB does for me.I expect I'll hear a little soft white noise with the extra gain, but I actually like that "12AX7" tube rush -- just like a dog salivates when you set out a steak for him, I get this feeling of wonderful expectation when I hear those tubes come on line - the prelude to a beautiful experience with my music. My mind has simply trained itself to look forward to a little tube hiss as in "yes, T-minus 5 and counting". Sure hope it's not a disappointment. My Torii could do with a little boost at the input.

Let me say that I firmly believe everyone should have all of their tubes cryo'd for two reasons: One, the sonic improvements are noticeable and sometimes striking; Two, the tubes should last longer due to the strengthening of the metals which have had their crystalline structures permanently transformed and "toughened" by the cryogenic process. Many tooling manufacturers get their metal cutters cryogenically treated and these tools stay sharp in use up to three times longer. I don't know how long a cryo'd tube lasts relative to non-cryo'd tube, but would be interested if anyone could comment on this. To me, a tube that last longer AND sounds better is worth quite a lot - a whole lot more than the $5. per tube treatment costs.

The value of having a group batch of tubes done doesn't really have much savings involved anymore. I get all my tubes cryo'd at http://www.cryoplus.com/ and Kathi charges $5.00 per tube with a minimum of a $20. order. I've compared the sound of cryo'd vs non-cryo'd of the same batch and the cryo'd tubes are more detailed, refined and natural sounding to me. My cryo'd 6N1P-EV input tubes on my Torii amp are two years old now and still doing fine. I now have some cryo'd Svetlana EL34 tubes and I plan to plug them into the Torii to see if I can hear any difference compared with non-cryo'd EL-34s - I expect there should be some difference, but no idea what, as yet.

So, if you have a Select amp, for instance, you can get all four of your favorite tubes cryo'd for just 20 bucks -- I don't see how a group order can do you better than this as the same $5.00 per tube charge still applies. I think you'll agree that this is the best $20. you've spent on audio.

Why does it cost $14 to ship a $16 tube? Why does it cost $14 to ship a tube - period! $16 is high enough for a Russian tube but $30 shipped? [/quote]

Our realtime shipping calculator used in the shopping cart has been undergoing updates for the past 30 days. It has been having problems calculating the correct shipping. We are working on it. Meanwhile, as always, all of our orders are processed by DeVon who always makes sure the shipping is correct before the cards are charged.

For the last couple of months Iíve been listening to my Select with the stock SV83ís and 6N1P. I really got use to it and I was really loving the 6N1P. I mean I rolled through lots of different tubes and found that I liked the 6N1P best or at lest I found it to be the best compromise for musicality. I was actually disappointed with my much loved 6922 Amprex PQ, I found it to be edgy and overly detailed.

Well I decided that after all this time; Iíd switch back to the assortment I had used prior and for quite some time and get a fell for the difference. Again, it had been at least 8 weeks with the stock assortment of tubes. So the other day I put the GZ32, Mullard EL84ís and the 6922 Amprex PQ back in and nave been listening.

Now maybe itís the mods EV and Steve did but the amp just takes on an entirely different character with these tubes. From the first moment and through all the hours that have passed I am more pleased with the systems presentation then the stock assortment. I really liked the stock assortment and I really think the 6N1P is best suited for the amp with the SV83ís. I have listened to hundreds of hours of music of all types this way, trying (like I said) different input tubes and was and can be quite happy with the amp.

However, the GZ32/EL84/6922 combination is richer in the vocals range, has more weight and authority, more detail without being edgy or harsh. The soundstage is deeper, more focused and/or layered better and the system is more dynamic or has that sparkle that I like. Unfortunately I canít find anything that the stock assortment does better.

This tube assortment would cost about $200 for NOS or close to it and I think thatís a small price to pay for the difference. But again, my amp isnít stock and the mods what I choose with Eddie were specifically for this assortment of tubes.

I got mine yesterday, but haven't had time to explore, other than lighting them up for a few minutes. Interesting! I will need to do some A/B-ing. I should get them good and hot tomorrow when I get back from the track. Don't worry - I wear earplugs and keep a "soundproof" radio headset handy. I'll still have healthy ears after the Brickyard.

I ordered 4 with the thought of swaping in the high-gain ones to compare (1 for CS and 3 for CSP). Adding gain to the CSP might be an over-kill, but i look forward to finding out [/quote]

I've listened to this new tube now for a few days and I really like it in my CS (Steve mentioned not to use this for the CSP). Using this tube I certainly notice more gain, but there is a bit more "umph" as well that I woudn't associate with just simply being louder. Both vinyl and CD have more presence - its a good thing

I managed to score a handful of 6h2n (non eb/ev) and tried them in the Torii MK II. At first listen, they seem like they have a lot less gain, but the soundstage broadens out and in some ways they seem to 'tame' the amp.

I was probably one of the first people to receive this 6N2P tube and have had some discussions with Steve on this tube. Steve said that this tube is will not directly replace the 12A-7 tubes because the 6N2P has a 6.3V heater similar to the 6n1p/6922 tubes whereas the 12A-7 tubes has a 12V heater. When it says that this tube is Russiaís version of the 12ax7, it means that the 6n2p tube would produce a sound that would be similar to what you would get if your amp was wired to use the higher gain 12ax7 signal tube instead of the lower gain 6n1p/6922 signal tubes.

Previously, my favorite tube in my modded Torii was a cryo'd 6N1P-EV of which I've shared quite a few here with other Decware fans.

I've done lots of listening and one gamble has paid off. I bought four vintage NOS 1974 6N2P-EV with the bomb logo and marked CCCP, as well. The construction is a little different than later versions of the same tube type. Anyway, I had these four cryo'd and I then bought a stash of 16 vintage 1979 6N2P-EV which have NOT been cryo'd.

To make a long story short(er), ::) my 1974 Cryo'd 6N2P-EV are the best input tube I've ever heard, bar none. I've compared this tube with the 1979 non-cryo'd version which sounds uncontrolled and honks dynamic changes, by comparison (but is still very good). I've compared it with the legendary 1964 Siemens CCa which is great, but not as good as this 1974 tube. I've compared it to the rare and wonderful ITT Lorenz 6922 of Stuttgart, Germany which comes in a fairly close second to the cryo'd 6N2P-EV, but the tube made at the height of CCCP power and prestige is simply more "you are there" real.

When judging a close call, my test is simply this -- which tube makes me want to listen more and why? The cryo'd 6N2P-EV draws me into the music and declares the performers to be real and right out there in front of me more than any other.

So, if like me, you liked your cryo'd 6N1P-EV tubes as a previous best, go out and get the oldest you can find of the 6N2P, have them cryo-treated, burn them in for 100 hours and listen to the magic -- these tubes are my new ne plus ultra and by quite a margin over the 6N1P-EV cryo'd which were not quite as good as the cryo'd vintage Lorenz 6922 gold-pins.

6N2P-EV (EV stands for special quality and long life with lower microphonics, too) tubes can be found all the time on ebay from sellers in Russia and Eastern Europe for less than $5. each post-paid when buying at least 8. Cryo treatment adds only another $5. per tube.

Anyone want some cheap Siemens CCa tubes? (just kidding - they will go on ebay for about $100. each as will the Lorenz and Valvo gold-pins).

Enjoy the music and get real, as in "you are there" REAL with some cryo'd 6N2P-EV - a real WOWSERS best in class.

I was probably one of the first people to receive this 6N2P tube and have had some discussions with Steve on this tube. †Steve said that this tube is will not directly replace the 12A-7 tubes because the 6N2P has a 6.3V heater similar to the 6n1p/6922 tubes whereas the 12A-7 tubes has a 12V heater. †When it says that this tube is Russiaís version of the 12ax7, it means that the 6n2p tube would produce a sound that would be similar to what you would get if your amp was wired to use the higher gain 12ax7 signal tube instead of the lower gain 6n1p/6922 signal tubes.

The 6N2P, while it has a level of gain similar to a 12AX7, the tube works like a 6DJ8, 6922 or 6N1P. Therefore, it is a perfect choice to replace the 6N1P. 12AX7 tubes use 12 volts to light the filaments whereas all the other tubes here mentioned use 6 volts on the filaments -- the two voltages are not compatible, but this is no concern to our use. Go ahead and try the oldest, cryo'dest 6N2P-EV you can lay hands on. Give it 100 hours of burn in and you could be wowed beyond your expectations as was I.

[quote author=Chas link=1151980939/30#39 date=1158285407]The 6N2P, while it has a level of gain similar to a 12AX7, the tube works like a 6DJ8, 6922 or 6N1P. Therefore, it is a perfect choice to replace the 6N1P. 12AX7 tubes use 12 volts to light the filaments whereas all the other tubes here mentioned use 6 volts on the filaments -- the two voltages are not compatible, but this is no concern to our use. Go ahead and try the oldest, cryo'dest 6N2P-EV you can lay hands on. Give it 100 hours of burn in and you could be wowed beyond your expectations as was I. [/quote]

Supposing you have a compatible heating source, could you not simply wire up a switch to allow you to switch between 6.3V and 12V filament heaters so you could use both?I think I have seen something about this elsewhere, but I know someone here probably has a product that has said feature in it.

thanks Chas, now just watch the price skyrocket on your new favorite tube :-X

seriously, any time a $5 - $10 unknown tube kicks ass like this is great

Mr Vaughn has his own "private reserve" list of unsung heros, many of which can cost less than the charges for safe shipping.

BTW, there are other members of the 12A(_)7 family that can work very well in the Taboo, particularly if you don't need the full gain of the 12AX7. I recently had a chance to audition one of the new anniversary style Taboos, and the sonic favorite of 3 input tubes we tried was an ancient Mullard 12AU7

[quote author=chrisby link=1151980939/30#41 date=1158339051]seriously, any time a $5 - $10 unknown tube kicks ass like this is great

Mr Vaughn has his own "private reserve" list of unsung heros, many of which can cost less than the charges for safe shipping. [/quote]Indeed, I do like the price on some of these signal tubes.One such tip I got from him was about the AV7's, and by chance I was able to get the 2 which he suggested, and they are sweeeeet. And the shipping WAS more than 200% the price of each tube I got in that lot.

[quote author=chrisby link=1151980939/30#41 date=1158339051]...and the sonic favorite of 3 input tubes we tried was an ancient Mullard 12AU7 [/quote]I have to agree, the older Mullard AU7's are something special, they are just so well rounded in their presentation, good for any and all types of music IMO. They also seem to interface good with the input stage on my T-Amp, which is nice, because it can be tricky to find the right balance.

GOOD MORNING EVERYONE, I FINALLY HAD ENOUGH OF ALL OF YOU TALKING ABOUT YOUR AMPS SO I WENT OUT AND GOT MY OWN ZEN AND YES NOW I COULD REALLY SEE WHERE YOU ARE ALL COMING FROM! ONE PROBLEM AS SOME OF YOU ALREADY KNOW I HAVE AN INSATIABLE APPETITE FOR EQUIPMENT, AND HOW IT PERFORMS. SO MY PROBLEM NOW IS THAT I NEED TO KNOW IF SOMEONE COULD HELP EXPLAIN HOW I COULD GET THIS NICE LITTLE AMP TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH SOME OF MY VARIOUS VINTAGE SPEAKERS WHICH HAPPEN TO BE 16 OHMS? I HAVE HEARD ABOUT THE Z UPDATE AND IF ANYONE COULD EXPLAIN THIS AS WELL PRICE, DIFFICULTY, PROS AND CONS? THIS IS WHY I AM ALWAYS LOST WHEN AUDITIONING EQUIPMENT ALWAYS BELIEVE THERE IS SOMETHING BETTER HA HA! TO BAD I CAN NOT AFFORD TO REALLY QUENCH MY THIRST! MIGHT BE HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION THOUGH. DO NOT EVEN KNOW IF THIS IS THE RIGHT SPOT TO POST THIS OH WHAT THE HELL, THAT IS WHY ON SOME SITES I AM KNOWN AS LOST IN SPACE HA HA! THANKS :-/

I've listened to this new tube now for a few days and I really like it in my CS (Steve mentioned not to use this for the CSP). Using this tube I certainly notice more gain, but there is a bit more "umph" as well that I woudn't associate with just simply being louder. †Both vinyl and CD have more presence - †its a good thing

--e [/quote]

I second your opinion. I was going to write my impression but you hit the nail on the head. This tube is definitely worth trying.

I'm getting occasional pulses of "white noise" with this tube in my Select-Ex. The bursts are soft, and only noticeable between cuts, but they are there. Anybody else? Perhaps a faulty tube. With no tube tester----? Don

Gotta chime in on this new tube from Steve. I received my two 6H2N's from Devon two weeks ago along with two TAD El 84-STR, installed them but have not really had a chance to sit and listen until last night. WOW! This little SE84CS †(RCA 5U4) is driving my Klipsch FR-82's and sounding so sweet, detailed and lots of UMPH! Although last Tuesday my wife was watching a DVD and mentioned some kind of a staticy sound off the left speaker, which I did hear (soft white noise bursts like Sam in USA??) but it only happened that night. Yesterday I listened to about 6 side of vinyl, and my wife and I must of listened to five or six full cd's and this amp is now what I envisioned it would sound like when I build it two years ago. Been thinking about that Mullard 5Y3 from tube sales...any one running one in a SE84CS and want to comment?? Long live tubes!!!