Orange Order parade planned for Harrogate

On the 24 November 2012 the Harrogate Orange Order will walk through Harrogate to mark Prince William of Orange’s victory over King James II at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, and to celebrate the Orangemen/ women from all parts of the UK.

I chose the number 1685 as this was the year the Prince of Wales West Yorks Reg was formed which both Grandfathers served with. The regiment defended Gibraltar for some time and as my good lady wife is Gibralatrian it seemed an appropriate number

I have no links to Ulster or the Army or Scotland for that matter however I am a protestant and proud we are a protestant country.

Some people have the assumption that Orangemen come from Ulster. In fact locally we have Northallerton, Leeds, Sheffield, Doncaster, Malton, Scarborough Lodges to name but a few.

I have a letter from Her Majesty congratulating me on the opening of Harrogate sons of William 1685 which is now framed and takes pride of place in the Lodge room.

We meet the last Sunday in every month at 10am at the High Harrogate working mens club on Devonshire place and all new members are welcome.

We plan to walk the streets of Harrogate to celebrate the opening but to include a service to remember the fallen in all wars.

We plan to not only lay poppies but also lillies as these symbolised cowardice. However, years later cowardice was recognised as PTSD and shell shock so we remember all those soldiers, especially at Flanders that were many were shot as cowards

Don Middleton the deputy Grand master of England (left) with the worshipfull Grand Master of the world Ronnie Bather (right) presenting Dale Parkyn, the Worshipfull master of Harrogate 1685 (centre) with the warrant and lodge seal earlier this year

Orange order walks have often faced opposition, generally from Catholics and Irish Nationalists, who feel that the parades are sectarian and triumphalist.

Many nationalists find the parades offensive wherever they take place. In Northern Ireland, conflict usually only arises when a walk passes through or near a Catholic-dominated area, where marchers can be verbally abused or have things thrown at them.

In Ireland parades were banned for a period, due to the policing required to control the the possibility of problems. In the UK in some areas the policing costs have been criticised. During July 2012, Glasgow saw an Orange parade with 8,000 followers, requiring a significant Police presence. This in-part, prompted Scottish government to consider legislation to limit the “huge cost implications” for policing.

We asked Dale Parkyn to explain more about the Orange Order.

Dale Parkyn Worshipfull master of Harrogate 1685 continued:

The Orange Order stands for the Christian faith and morality.

The serious decline in spirituality in the United Kingdom, and England in particular, and the rise of secular culture based individual self-indulgence, has not created the liberal society the “flower-power” generation promised.

Instead, we have an amoral, fragmented and confused society. Immense damage in particular has been caused to the nuclear family, and its breakdown is intimately associated with a whole host of social problems involving children. Children from broken backgrounds have lower educational standards, and higher rates of delinquency and psychological problems.

Even discounting the unquantifiable human cost to the children involved, the government (i.e. the taxpayer) has to solve these problems with expensive financial solutions.

Therefore what secular culture has created is an fundamentally illiberal and repressive society, as the decent majority have their individual choices in life curtailed, in order to fund the self-indulgences and irresponsibilities of others.

The Orange Order also stands for the maintenance of our national sovereignty.

The United Kingdom is currently severely threatened by break-up due to European federalism, militant Irish nationalism and Scottish nationalism.

There is simply no convincing case that British freedoms would be preserved in a federal Europe, or that the rights of Ulster Protestants would be protected in a United Ireland. Scottish nationalism, though not undemocratic in itself, greatly threatens the stability of the United Kingdom and therefore its abilities to defend itself from these other evils.

We therefore believe our freedoms are best preserved in a strong union between the four countries of the United Kingdom.

There are, of course, many groups who are fighting to preserve British sovereignty and to halt the moral decline of our nation into a politically correct morass of intolerance and self-indulgence.

However, none have a better understanding than the Orange Order of the aspects of faith and culture that made the United Kingdom such a great liberal democracy.

In order to rebuild our nation, it is therefore not enough just to defend or claim back our sovereignty, but what must be revived is the strong, stable Protestant culture which gave it such a solid liberal ethos of individual freedom and responsibility.

What do you feel towards Orange walk and what the Orangemen stand for ? post your comments below.

This is nothing new in North Yorkshire. There are 2 or 3 Orange Order Parades in the region every year, including Northallerton, Scarborough annually and also York in 2011. All pass off peacefully and cause no offence to anyone.
Indeed, the Roman Catholic Cannon Father in York commended the York parade on Radio York as containing nothing that would offend anybody.
It is celebrating the Culture of the Orange Order, Civil and Religious Liberties for ALL.
There have been Orangemen in Harrogate for many years, and this has not at all harmed the tollerance and sense of community within Harrogate. If you read into the Institution (available from many sourse on the internet), Orangemen have a duty to “refrain from unkind words and deeds towards your Catholic neighbours”. I feel that the Orangemen of Harrogate have lived up to that sentiment.
The only people that can complain about this are the ill informed and the bigots that have an axe to grind against the Reformed Faith and the Orange Order.
This is rural North Yorkshire, welcome this parade, enjoy its colourful spectacle and allow Civil and Religious Liberties to prevail.

Having attended Loyal Order parades throughout the UK & Ireland, I welcome the Orange Order to Harrogate, the Order teaches civil and religious liberties for all,many of my RC friends also look forward to our annual visit to Southport for the Boyne cellebrations in July.

Great to see the Orange Order blossoming in that part of England. The general public have nothing to fear from this organisation, who promote civil & religious liberty for all people – the fascists who oppose them (often violently) are more to be feared than the marchers themselves. Also refreshing to see these positive comments rather than the usual militant hate filled nonsense from the republican heavy squads!

A bit sceptical at first but after reading into the goings on they look no different than any other group of individuals serious about their interests. Googling the Lodge you see more hatred in very select areas, ours is not one of them I’d hope. Some of the marching bands look huge – which one will be on this march?

Thanks for the positive comments folks.The bands are the Crown Defenders Flute band from Leeds.They are a new band like the lodge so we have formed an association with them.We also have the Son’s of William pipe band from Liverpool who I have become friends with.We plan to have a service at the Conotaph with a eulogy while playing abide with me

“There is simply no convincing case that British freedoms would be preserved in a federal Europe, or that the rights of Ulster Protestants would be protected in a United Ireland.”-evidence please of any protestant discrimination in rep of Ireland in last 40 years–also smell the coffee mate -united ireland certainly won’t happen anytime in your or my lifetime-if ever

“Many nationalists find the parades offensive wherever they take place. In Northern Ireland, conflict usually only arises when a walk passes through or near a Catholic-dominated area”- gosh wonder if it has anything to do with some orange bandsmen urinating on catholic churches, joyfully singing sectarian songs with lines like ” were up to our necks in fenian blood” and displaying banners celebrating terrorists who murdered innocent civilians in same vicinity of the march- owner how you would feel if the police and army spent shedloads of taxpayers money protecting an IRA celebration march through the Shankill rd??

Liam you are entitled to your opinion whatever that may be.Funny how the British economy has bounced back sooner than any other.British democracy ensures we have stable financial institutions to rely on.people flock to these shores because they know they will be protected.This is because as BRITISH citizens we are afforded these rights and freedom of speech.I am struggling to find your point.You have labeled me in the same catogory as the UVF or UDA or similar paramilitary organisation which is rubbish.I am a protestant Yorkshireman,born in England,British by Nationality and loyal to my family my friends and the Crown
Hours of Police footage was scrolled through regarding the incidents at the chapple and twenty one bands men were arrested which is the right thing to do.The police costs have run into thousands a few weeks ago when the IRA James Larkin parade passed through Liverpool on the 13th October 2012 celebrating murder and torture of ordinary people which is unacceptable.Today David Black a prison Warder shot on the motorway near Newry by republicans
To sum up you can find my parade as offensive as you like it is going ahead and I am here for the duration.My catholic neighbours are welcome to get off thier butt and organise a legitimate parade of their own instead of moaning about mine
God save the Queen

Dear Dale,
I saw you talking on youtube about today’s parade. What you said was very interesting.However, Britishness has NOT been bred out of all the English people. In fact I think it is making a comeback following The U.K.’s Olympic triumphs.
Some interesting facts: We English are still the MOST likely of the four peoples of the home nations to identify as BRITISH first (43%.)

Why is Britishness important?
It was the British (not just the English) who stopped Hitler.
It was the British who stopped Napoleon.
We haven’t been invaded; suffered extremes of right or left; had a civil war (that was the English!) or a (violent) revolution.

We REFORMED our Monarchy (instead of chopping their heads off)
and we industrialised first.

If we, with all our achievements, were to dismantle our United Kingdom, the rest of the world would be completely mystified.

I for one have no problem with an Orange Order parade on the streets of our town. Pageantry and Traditionalism appear to be frowned upon by some sectors of the community and it’s great to see something to counter that.

I’m looking forward to watching the parade this weekend as I’m sure many others in Harrogate are. Best of luck to the Orange Order and I hope your parade is a success.

Ref: Liam 28 Oct 12.
First of all. There is considerable evidence that the civil rights of Protestants HAVE been violated in the Rep of Ireland. Since partition in 1922 the Protestant population has been reduced from an estimated 14% to 3.05% (2011) this was until very recently due to the non funding of Protestant schools, discrimination in jobs especially public sector initiated by Éamon de Valera not to mention housing and welfare. In contrast the catholic population in Ulsters six counties rapidity grew from an estimated 20 % to 44% (2012). Considering Ulster was, according to Sinn Fein and many other ignorant observers an “anti catholic, ORANGE CONTROLLED STATE”. It obviously WAS and IS a good place to live if you are a catholic.
As for Catholics finding parades offensive. This again is a lie many catholics are not bothered and some actually go and watch the parades. It is the bigots and racists of the Irish Republican movement who have continually sought confrontation and have used the guise of local residents committee groups to make a street or round a bout or shop “CONTENTIOUS” because they can hear the drums when they are in the garden or see a flag from an upstairs window and the sound/ sight offends them. Many of these “concerned residents” travel miles to be offended.
No parade in Northern Ireland goes through an nationalist dominated area i.e a housing estate etc. but because the route is on a main road near them they twist the facts to cause as much tension as possible.
As for urinating on the wall of the grounds of a church. This was unacceptable. Drunk and disorderly behaviour is not tolerated on parade. The bandsman in question was expelled from the band.
However no one in the media, “concerned residents” groups or yourself, Liam, seems to be outraged by the burning of gospel halls, orange halls, Protestant churches and the vandalism of memorials by republicans.
Republican parades make a point of stopping outside orange halls and churches playing and singing sectarian songs. They also throw stones and paint bombs at them during the parade.
You are also confused about the banners, it is the REPUBLICANS who have pictures of terrorists/murderers on their banners.
And finally the British taxpayer does pay thousands of pounds every year protecting and containing these republican fascist groups.
All the loyal orders follow a strict code of conduct on parade. They do not seek to offend but only wish to celebrate the civil and religious liberties that were gained by the blood sweat and tears of our forefathers and that we all cherish. Thank God for our liberal democracy.

interesting comments about the walk in harrogate,shame the order have to educate/explain every time they have a parade,i for one will be at the parade with other brothers from scarborough.
i am a proud yorkshireman and belive in the union of our nations,
hope the weather is fine see you there liam.

I just saw a Calender News clip of the newly formed “Orange” group which featured Dale Parkyn unfurling a British “Union Jack” flag. It makes a mockery of his claim to be proud of his ‘Britishness’ when he doesn’t even realise that his flag is mounted UPSIDE DOWN on the pole. Any self respecting boy scout knows that this is A SIGN OF DISTRESS.The broad white stripe should only be flown in the UPPER position adjacent to the pole.

Mr Normington, If this is the only critisism you have of the Orange institution I thank you very much.I do hope people can see this is a positive organisation promoting british culture, history and tradition.The Orange institution is Loyal to The Crown,the Union and appreciates the sacrifice the Armed Forces have made for our nation past and present.All the best for tomorrow Dale, I hope this is the first of many.

A very common mistake people make and im sure it will be corrected by tomorrow,but if thats all your worried about then thats ok as we are not the EDL or BNP and are only in town through the local lodges invitation.

3) why does the lodge not accept the pope as a head of the roman catholic church

i know the answers too these questions but i wonder if the grand master of the lodge mr bates will answer these questions so wwe can all make our mind up as too weather your tolerant too a mans right too practice what ever faith they chose or is .

Had a nice walk round Harrogate yesterday while the wife went shopping,and not one person made any objection as we can all hide behind a key board,a reply to the post above would take quite a while but long a go we were all catholics in europe weather we liked it or not people were persecuted to the point were they were burned at the stake for heresy,martin luther started the break from rome and called the pope the anti-christ he and his followers became known as protestants,as the orange order is protestant we do not welcome catholics in to the order this is because at the time the order was formed catholics were know to be rebellious towards the crown,and still are in ulster.we dont go to catholic funeral because there are to long and we dont go to catholic churches because we are not catholics.Not sure about the pope he is the head of the catholic church is he not?

The Orange is anti-Catholic. In N.Ireland recently, a young Catholic police officer was murdered. The Orange Order censured members for going to his funeral. That has been the case for many prominent Catholics who have died recently.

They allow anti-Catholic music in their parades, and have links to both the UVF, and the UDA. Both these organisations have held onto their murderous arsenal, and continue to use them to this day. It has been reported that the UVF in Belfast is a massing new weapons. The connection to terrorism is the case particularly in Belfast, but also in other regions of N.Ireland.

Loyalist weapons have been found inside Orange Halls in the past, and their connections to terrorist organisations is widely accepted. The situation at Drumcree seen the Orange Order for what it is. They stood shoulder to shoulder with Billy Wright and Johnny Adair. These men are notorious for leading sectarian murder gangs, who murdered hundreds of innocent Catholics, simply because they were Catholics.

The Orange Order is anti-Catholic, and aligns itself with organisations who killed innocent Catholics on a large scale.

On another point, they are laying a wreath at a Cenotaph. In N.Ireland, they wreaths at memorial gardens dedicated to people like Brian Robinson. He murdered an innocent Catholic, minutes before he was killed by the British army. The Orange Order for years, have used a band dedicated to this man, and have walked along the Crumlin Road, where Robinson murdered his innocent victim. The Brian Robinson Band walked over the very spot where the victim died.

That is the calibre of the Orange Order, and the people of England need to know the truth about this organisation’s terror affiliations.