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Re: Is 2012 the last year we're stuck with Bakersfield?

Originally Posted by muddie

The reason that Cincy is in Bakersfield is that nobody else wanted them that had an expired MLB working agreement. It has nothing to do with sharing the wealth at all. The 'musical chairs' example is perfect.

What did this org do to make affiliates mad at them and not want them?

Re: Is 2012 the last year we're stuck with Bakersfield?

Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger

What did this org do to make affiliates mad at them and not want them?

It wasn't about being mad at them, it was about Dayton being really bad in 2010 (53-85) and 2009 (59-80). If you knew that was the team you would be getting, would you be lining up to sign them up knowing that you have to sell tickets to make money? From a business perspective, I wouldn't. These minor league franchises are in the business of making money. A lot of these towns want to see the team win. They don't care about the development of the players like we do. They are Bakersfield fans, not Reds fans (or whatever city).

Re: Is 2012 the last year we're stuck with Bakersfield?

Originally Posted by dougdirt

It wasn't about being mad at them, it was about Dayton being really bad in 2010 (53-85) and 2009 (59-80). If you knew that was the team you would be getting, would you be lining up to sign them up knowing that you have to sell tickets to make money? From a business perspective, I wouldn't. These minor league franchises are in the business of making money. A lot of these towns want to see the team win. They don't care about the development of the players like we do. They are Bakersfield fans, not Reds fans (or whatever city).

What's interesting from a sports-business perspective is that it's been proven time and time again that "win-loss" record is not nearly as important as "ballpark experience" in terms of attendance at minor league baseball games. Does having a winning team help? Yes, but it's been proven it has a very-negligible effect. Exciting, young prospects are more-important than winning on the attendance scale ... and then No. 1 by far is ballpark experience. The Dayton Dragons could write the handbook on this theory, but it applies to every team across the nation. Some just do it much better than others. And yes, some places of the country (like Dayton, OH) are just better baseball towns than others (like Bakersfield, CA). But there have been years the Dragons have been dreadful on the field, but they still packed the place every night because it was a fun place to take the fam.

So, when a minor league baseball owner/operator blames the MLB club for his team not drawing well, he should look in the mirror. He needs to do more fan-friendly things at the park. This is not the Major Leagues where all that really matters is wins and losses. The minor leagues are all about developing players and allowing the fans to have a great time while at the game. Wins and losses are nothing more than gravy at the MiLB level. (But I do love me some gravy.)

Re: Is 2012 the last year we're stuck with Bakersfield?

I know this will never happen but i wish Dayton was a double AA team or a AAA team. They certainly have the fan base to support it and it would be a nice incentive for guys that move up the chain to play in front a larger fan base.

Heck, there are times when guys are interviewed about playing in Dayton and they'll say things like "gettting a promotion was like a demotion after playing in Dayton". Just fits in my schema better to have things progress in a natural order, but life isn't always like that.

Re: Is 2012 the last year we're stuck with Bakersfield?

Originally Posted by Cooper

I know this will never happen but i wish Dayton was a double AA team or a AAA team. They certainly have the fan base to support it and it would be a nice incentive for guys that move up the chain to play in front a larger fan base.

Heck, there are times when guys are interviewed about playing in Dayton and they'll say things like "gettting a promotion was like a demotion after playing in Dayton". Just fits in my schema better to have things progress in a natural order, but life isn't always like that.

Are there any rules against silently operating a team like that? We could regularly promote players straight to Bakersfield from Billings and then demote them to Dayton, while simultaneously putting all of our coaching talent in Dayton.

Also, is there any chance that Bakersfield will fold on it's own? They may have a contract, but paying rent on a stadium and running a minor league team out with an attendance of 300 doesn't seem like any way to make a profit.

Re: Is 2012 the last year we're stuck with Bakersfield?

Originally Posted by The DARK

Are there any rules against silently operating a team like that? We could regularly promote players straight to Bakersfield from Billings and then demote them to Dayton, while simultaneously putting all of our coaching talent in Dayton.

Also, is there any chance that Bakersfield will fold on it's own? They may have a contract, but paying rent on a stadium and running a minor league team out with an attendance of 300 doesn't seem like any way to make a profit.

In A-ball, no more than two players can have more than five years of minor-league service time. In rookie leagues (e.g. Billings), there are various limits on the ages of players.

Re: Is 2012 the last year we're stuck with Bakersfield?

Originally Posted by The DARK

Are there any rules against silently operating a team like that? We could regularly promote players straight to Bakersfield from Billings and then demote them to Dayton, while simultaneously putting all of our coaching talent in Dayton.

Also, is there any chance that Bakersfield will fold on it's own? They may have a contract, but paying rent on a stadium and running a minor league team out with an attendance of 300 doesn't seem like any way to make a profit.

It is eye opening to look at the league attendance in the California League and see how poorly attended Bakersfield games were this year. They finished last in the league in attendance, a distant last I might add. The ninth place attendance in the league was High Desert with a total season attendance of 119,028 and an average per game attendance of 1725. Bakersfield had a total season attendance of 40,056. The average game attendance was 572...pathetic.

Kinston, N.C. lost their team in the Carolina League because attendance was so low year in and year out and the owners got tired of picking up the tab each year. They had a total season attendance of 112,181 this year and a per game average of 1780 which dwarfs the attendance numbers for Bakersfield. I don't know how Bakersfield does it.

Re: Is 2012 the last year we're stuck with Bakersfield?

Originally Posted by The DARK

Are there any rules against silently operating a team like that? We could regularly promote players straight to Bakersfield from Billings and then demote them to Dayton, while simultaneously putting all of our coaching talent in Dayton.

I suppose you could, but it would be pointless because the level of competition would be wrong. It's not just about Dayton and Bakersfield, it's about the rest of both leagues. You'd be hanging out your less developed guys to dry having them over their head in a high A league, and sticking your better players against inferior competition not learning anything in a low A league. We're just stuck with Bakersfield, we have to deal with it.

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