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Katphood

Posted 17 November 2018 - 05:42 PM

injurai

Posted 17 November 2018 - 05:51 PM

injurai

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Saudi is a key player in the petrol dollar (they only sell their oil for USD.) We aren't dependent on Saudi oil, we are dependent on the surplus valuation of the dollar holding it's value. Until the US can find an export that the rest of the world wants that forces the globe to keep a sizeable portion of their wealth invested in US dollars, then we aren't getting out from under shackles. If only Venezuela was a neo-liberal polyarchy divorced from OPEC... until then :sadface:

Apparently the Saudi's have less oil then they are letting on, but I don't think they are running out any time soon. Literally the spice must flow.

KaineParker

Posted 17 November 2018 - 06:54 PM

KaineParker

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So will the U.S put sanctions on Saudi Arabia now or are they still a "strategic ally"?!

The Saudi king could film himself going full de Sade while murdering hundreds of children then taking a dump on the American flag and the US would do the same thing the church did during the holocaust. Such is the power of strategic alliances.

Zoraptor

Posted 17 November 2018 - 07:06 PM

Zoraptor

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Apparently the Saudi's have less oil then they are letting on, but I don't think they are running out any time soon. Literally the spice must flow.

Supposedly that's the reason the Saudi Aramco IPO was cancelled as they'd have to disclose oil reserves and be liable for lying. A few places have pretty massive oil reserves- Venezuela and Canada for example- but they're not really economic due to the type of oil they have being too heavy or contaminated. Saudi's is almost entirely sweet light and easy to pump.

There's certainly no realistic chance of Trump's US significantly sanctioning Saudi at the moment. Trump thinks Kushner is some sort of Middle East expert and Kushner is basically owned by Muhammed ibn Sawman plus Kushner's a pathetic suck up to Bibi Netanyahu whose biggest goal is getting the US or anyone else (ie Saudi Arabia and friends) to attack Iran for him. Most I can see Trump doing is sanctioning whoever gets executed and declaring how tough he's been. I guess some in Congress may have a try at getting some proper sanctions through but I'm not holding my breath.

Some sort of forced settlement in Yemen (and maybe with Qatar) is possible as a sort of punishment though. There comes a point where qat chewing barefoot tribals with AKs and 1960s ATGMs blowing up billions in US weaponry becomes counter productive to sales, and trying to starve 17 million people to death might be a little bit of a PR problem.

OTOH a lot of Trump's base both voter and politician wise does reflexively hate Mr Bone Saw and any other Saudi royal over 9/11 and their consistent support of terrorism people who spontaneously and independently become terrorists after receiving moderate Wahhabi teachings. I could see Trump throwing the Saudis under the bus if things really got hot- the tapes get released with a lot of traction, or Kushner falls from favour. Trump isn't the sort to stay loyal when it's costing him.

Katphood

Posted 17 November 2018 - 08:42 PM

Katphood

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So will the U.S put sanctions on Saudi Arabia now or are they still a "strategic ally"?!

The Saudi king could film himself going full de Sade while murdering hundreds of children then taking a dump on the American flag and the US would do the same thing the church did during the holocaust. Such is the power of strategic alliances.

Guard Dog

Posted 18 November 2018 - 09:25 AM

Not surprisingly, the Los Angeles Times ran a commentary on May 23, 2017, in which writer Diana Wagman described how she had joined with "thousands of witches, believers and people like me all over the world" to cast a binding spell on President Donald Trump "under the waning crescent moon" in April last year.

"It was not meant to physically hurt him, only to keep him from succeeding at his tasks," explained Wagman.

Posted 18 November 2018 - 09:33 AM

injurai

Posted 18 November 2018 - 09:35 AM

injurai

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Location:Not the oceans

Speaking of impeding success. There is a frustrating dynamic in party politics where each party wants to be the one to usher in a change that they'd both agree on. So instead they hobble each other to get the name recognition for positive change.

When people like Elon Musk step up to advise Trump in order to help navigate the next 4 years smoothly, then get's criticized by the progressive left for merely an attempt of effort, it really shows where people's minds are. Of course that relation fell through in the end, but the important part is to cultivate that mindset of attempt. It's gross when people promote arbitrary guilt by association, it's really just an excuse to abdicate responsibility and find easy refuge within echoic reward structure. It's the exact same way the bulk of the GOP operated for most of Obama's terms.

BruceVC

Posted 18 November 2018 - 02:59 PM

BruceVC

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Location:Johannesburg, South Africa

Saudi is a key player in the petrol dollar (they only sell their oil for USD.) We aren't dependent on Saudi oil, we are dependent on the surplus valuation of the dollar holding it's value. Until the US can find an export that the rest of the world wants that forces the globe to keep a sizeable portion of their wealth invested in US dollars, then we aren't getting out from under shackles. If only Venezuela was a neo-liberal polyarchy divorced from OPEC... until then :sadface:

Apparently the Saudi's have less oil then they are letting on, but I don't think they are running out any time soon. Literally the spice must flow.

There has always been an "anti-Saudi " sentiment from some members on this forum, its basically the same criticism towards Saudi Arabia and how they have either exasperated Islamic Extremism, fund it or actually are the " real baddies in the ME "

As usual with these types of comments I find people conflate issues and unintentionally seem to ignore developments in the ME since 9/11 where we should recognize the good Saudi Arabia has done

Saudi Arabia has been an ally to the USA in the war on terror and have made several important initiatives to eradicate extremism in the ME, yes they initially probably wanted to stay out of it but when they were targeted by Al-Qaeda after 9/11 the Saudi monarchy realized that there own existence was threatened so they logically aligned with the West which was the right thing to do

So in summary, why is the Trump and Saudi relationship relevant and important

As you mentioned Saudi Arabia is basically OPEC due to its influence on the other Gulf States, they have a critical role in ensuring continued oil supply

They are opposed to the type of Islamic Extremism that has plagued the world since 9/11

They are fundamental in the Shia\Sunni conflict that needs to meet a conclusion in the ME. They represent the side that I really believe offers the ME the best option for stability and economic sustainability

SonicMage117

Posted 18 November 2018 - 05:48 PM

Volourn

Posted 18 November 2018 - 08:05 PM

Volourn

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Location:North Bay, Ontario, Kanada

"I can guess based on what you mentioned in the past but I am just wondering if you can reiterate them?"

Dude. This latest murder of a journalist is why. People bash Trump as some of evil Nazi devil dictator but his worst ';crime' against a journalist is 'banishing' one from the WH because he wouldn't share the mic.. and then promptly obeying a judge who 'overruled' him. No way does SA leaders even think about doing that.

SonicMage117

Posted 18 November 2018 - 08:35 PM

213374U

Posted 18 November 2018 - 08:58 PM

213374U

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Bruce's casual dismissal of "some members' anti-Saudi sentiment" is almost as funny as his misuse of the term "exasperation", especially now, in light of bin Sawman's penchant for overtly robbing, disappearing, and murdering anyone that opposes him.

I mean, this isn't even news. Reminder that last year, about 200 members of the House of Saud, the military, politicians and businessmen were detained in a hotel in Riyadh, in what was billed as an "anti-corruption operation", but was ostensibly a crackdown against rivals and the opposition. Some entered as billionaires and came out paupers. Lucky them—at least another one came out in a box. Or the hijinks with Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri being held hostage and forced to resign, that was fun. Or the other wayward princes that the regime kidnapped and disappeared, even the beeb had a programme about it.

But guys guys, other than that, their generally terrible human rights record and the genocidal war on Yemen, could you please restate what exactly is your problem with Saudi?