Are you kidding me ? Spider-Man is not a big shot in the Marvel universe ? He's like, the most known superhero Marvel have. If anything, he's right after Batman and Superman in terms of being "big shot". Now please don't go all hipster on me telling me how Black Panther or Ms Marvel is bigger than him.

Are you talking about in real life or the Marvel universe? I'm talking about the Marvel universe. Yes, he is the most known superhero Marvel has but that is in our world. If we all lived in the Marvel universe right now, that wouldn't be the case. People like Iron Man, Cap, Thor, and the Fantastic Four are all more well known and are generally more liked than Spider-Man in the Marvel universe (once again, the Marvel universe; not the real world). On the other hand, this doesn't apply to Batman and Superman. They're the top big shots and most well known superheroes in both the DC universe and here in the real world.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCap

Black Panther and Ms. Marvel aren't bigger but they deserve to be in an Avengers sequel more than Spider-Man. Spidey is great as a one man show, Ms. Marvel and Panther are perfect for Avengers especially Ms. Marvel who probably will never have a solo movie. Not to mention they both are better known as Avengers than Spidey.

Agreed. I'm not against the idea of Spider-Man coming in but the importance of characters like Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Vision, Ant-Man, and Wasp come first because they're iconic Avengers characters. However, if Marvel has already made the decision to bring in Spider-Man at one point if they can, I believe what I said before would apply.

No, there's not any real chance that Fox and Sony will ever get on the same page with Marvel Studios to cross-over their cash cows Spidey and Wolverine.

But some of these posts that deny the box office appeal of Spidey in an Avenger movie are just completely out of touch with reality. Spidey holds FOUR spots (4,5,6, and 9) in the Top 10 grossing superhero films of all time, while Batman holds two (2 and 3), Iron Man has two (7 and 8), Avengers has 1 (#1), and The Incredibles holds the #10 spot. Even when you combine the total take on each franchise, and *even if* you include Avengers in the Iron Man franchise total, Spidey still outgrosses everything out there.

Spidey is the freakin' flagship of Marvel; always has been and always will. Anybody who thinks his inclusion in the Avengers wouldn't boost the hell out of the box office is living in complete denial.

People would be more excited to see a movie that has Spider-Man than Hank Pym or Wasp.

its more than money. It doesn't matter. I think you are trolling too. Ant man and wasp are WAY more important for the avengers than freakin spiderman. It doesn't matter if he is more popular. Ant man and wasp are more important. and it is crucial to get them in sooner or later. They have roles, they lead to ultron. They need to be in a some point. it's not about pulling in more money, or getting more people to see the damn movie. christ

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam

In this thread: a lot of denial on both sides of reality.

No, there's not any real chance that Fox and Sony will ever get on the same page with Marvel Studios to cross-over their cash cows Spidey and Wolverine.

But some of these posts that deny the box office appeal of Spidey in an Avenger movie are just completely out of touch with reality. Spidey holds FOUR spots (4,5,6, and 9) in the Top 10 grossing superhero films of all time, while Batman holds two (2 and 3), Iron Man has two (7 and 8), Avengers has 1 (#1), and The Incredibles holds the #10 spot. Even when you combine the total take on each franchise, and *even if* you include Avengers in the Iron Man franchise total, Spidey still outgrosses everything out there.

Spidey is the freakin' flagship of Marvel; always has been and always will. Anybody who thinks his inclusion in the Avengers wouldn't boost the hell out of the box office is living in complete denial.

oh I know. But he's not going to be in it. For other reasons. Venom needs to let this go.

its more than money. It doesn't matter. I think you are trolling too. Ant man and wasp are WAY more important for the avengers than freakin spiderman. It doesn't matter if he is more popular. Ant man and wasp are more important. and it is crucial to get them in sooner or later. They have roles, they lead to ultron. They need to be in a some point. it's not about pulling in more money, or getting more people to see the damn movie. christ

Yes, Ant-man and Wasp were in the first issue; unfortunately, they’re just not very well-known characters outside the comic book world. Go say they’re making a movie called “Ant-man” to a non-nerd, and I’d be willing to bet they say something like, “What, does he turn into an ant or something?” Swap Hank Pym with Stark (or possibly even Hammer), and away you go.

None of these characters were well known before the movies, except for the Hulk. The movies have made them well-known.

It's beyond silly to argue that they shouldn't add characters who "aren't well known". They have no more well known characters in their stable. More characters will become well known by virtue of being used in the movies.

And Spider-Man won't be in the Avengers sequel, no matter how many times you come into this thread and post about it.

None of these characters were well known before the movies, except for the Hulk. The movies have made them well-known.

It's beyond silly to argue that they shouldn't add characters who "aren't well known". They have no more well known characters in their stable. More characters will become well known by virtue of being used in the movies.

And Spider-Man won't be in the Avengers sequel, no matter how many times you come into this thread and post about it.

People are quick to forget that Iron Man was considered a third-rate, relatively unknown character just five years ago. He was familiar to fans of Marvel Comics, but to the general public Tony Stark and his armored alter-ego were just as obscure as Ant-Man is now. It was only through an appearance in a blockbuster film that the character became as popular as he is today.

The same can be said of Thor, Captain America, Nick Fury and all of the other characters in the MCU. They're now well-known to the general public after slogging along for decades as properties that only comics geeks knew about. There is every reason to believe that Ant-Man and other Marvel heroes will follow the same route after they appear in the film universe.

Chewy and Xeno, not that I'm disagreeing with you about the fact that Marvel Studios really has no "well-known" properties left in their roster, but I still don't get why you guys (and others) keep insisting that the Big Three Avengers (Cap, Thor, Iron Man) were unknown to general audiences before MS trotted them out. They certainly weren't at the same pop culture level as Spidey or Hulk or even Wolverine, but they each had their own animated series in certain decades; they guest-shotted in other more popular animated series like Spider-Man and X-Men; were featured in popular video games (especially fighters, like Marvel vs. Capcom, and RPGs like Marvel Ultimate Alliance); and were pretty popular mainstays of Marvel kid merch, including toys, action figures, games, lunchboxes, T-shirts, Underoos, etc.

Here's plenty of examples that show that IM, Cap and Thor had plenty of exposure pre-2008:

You see where Flash is now? That's about where the big three were before the movies.

They had starred in animated series but not animated series that broke out into the public consciousness the way X-Men or something like TMNT did. They were on T-shirts and lunchboxes but generally in the context of "here's Spider-Man and 15 other Marvel characters on a T-shirt", not "here's a Thor T-shirt" (I say "generally", so please don't link to a pic of this one Thor T-shirt from the 90's you know of )

I betcha more people could have told you who Jubilee was than Iron Man before 2007 (I say 2007 and not 2008 because that's when the movie's marketing machine started ramping up). These were not mainstream characters.

I come from an older generation than you young whippersnappers. In the 70s and 80s, the Avenger-centric heroes were front and center; in the 90s and after, X-Men generally were. Every kid and teenager in 1965, 1975, and 1985 knew Iron Man, Cap, and Thor as well as they knew Hulk, Spidey, and the Fantastic Four.

None of these characters were well known before the movies, except for the Hulk. The movies have made them well-known.

It's beyond silly to argue that they shouldn't add characters who "aren't well known". They have no more well known characters in their stable. More characters will become well known by virtue of being used in the movies.

And Spider-Man won't be in the Avengers sequel, no matter how many times you come into this thread and post about it.

I bet we at least get a cameo of Spider-Man in costume as part of an effort to help tie Spider-Man into the Avengers.

I bet we at least get a cameo of Spider-Man in costume as part of an effort to help tie Spider-Man into the Avengers.

oh my god.
WHY tie him in to the avengers? He doesn't exist in the MCU. And if they give Sony's spiderman a cameo, that would be confusing.

Again, why would they have to tie him in? What would it do, besides sell extra tickets, think of the confusion. "Why aren't we getting a MCU spiderman movie?" "If he made a cameo, why can't he be an avenger?"

"So sony's universe is the same as the MCU? They are the same universe?..they aren't? then why is their spiderman making a cameo in the mcu?"

its just confusing. Too confusing. If they have a plan to buy back spidy, and give him his own full MCU movie and such, then by all means. Give him a cameo, but right now, its too confusing, hell, too risky.

Can we please talk about other potential characters appearing on the avengers roster? Venom, you once again have single handidly turned this into a spiderman in the avengers thread, which it isn't.

Make it a seperate thread if you feel the need to talk about it, and argue its case. But it needs to end here. This is a thread dedicated to the roster of the avengers in the MCU. You've said it yourself, Spiderman won't be a team member. Lets get back on topic and discuss other avengers who might appear on the roster, legitimately.

oh my god.
WHY tie him in to the avengers? He doesn't exist in the MCU. And if they give Sony's spiderman a cameo, that would be confusing.

Again, why would they have to tie him in? What would it do, besides sell extra tickets, think of the confusion. "Why aren't we getting a MCU spiderman movie?" "If he made a cameo, why can't he be an avenger?"

"So sony's universe is the same as the MCU? They are the same universe?..they aren't? then why is their spiderman making a cameo in the mcu?"

its just confusing. Too confusing. If they have a plan to buy back spidy, and give him his own full MCU movie and such, then by all means. Give him a cameo, but right now, its too confusing, hell, too risky.

Why would the overlap of Spidey's universe in Sony and the MCU necessitate a Marvel Studios Spider-Man movie? There *is* such a thing as "outsourcing." If you let multiple studios (Sony, Fox, MS) handle different facets of the same shared universe, then you're giving fans exactly what they want --- moar Marvel. When you try to consolidate every Marvel property at MS, then you're severely limiting yourself to the only-two-films-a-year model, which means major, MAJOR, MAJOR Marvel characters will have to get sent to the backburner. Nobody wants that.

Neither fans nor general audiences would be the least bit confused by a truly shared universe that extends across multiple studios, because they *know* that Spidey, the X-Men, and the Avengers share the same comic book universe. And questions about "well then, where were the X-Men or Spidey while the Avengers were out saving the world from aliens? Or why didn't the Avengers help the X-Men when everybody was trying to go all genocide on mutantkind?" are *age-old questions* that us fanboys have been asking the Marvel Bullpen for decades.

Quote:

Can we please talk about other potential characters appearing on the avengers roster? Venom, you once again have single handidly turned this into a spiderman in the avengers thread, which it isn't.

Make it a seperate thread if you feel the need to talk about it, and argue its case. But it needs to end here. This is a thread dedicated to the roster of the avengers in the MCU. You've said it yourself, Spiderman won't be a team member. Lets get back on topic and discuss other avengers who might appear on the roster, legitimately.

Look, the "whar's Spidey and Wolverine?!?" questions are tiresome, but they're definitely applicable to this thread. In the 21st century, Spidey and Wolverine ARE Avengers, thanks to Bendis, whether anyone likes it or not. So the question is going to keep coming up again and again. Grin and bear it.

Why would the overlap of Spidey's universe in Sony and the MCU necessitate a Marvel Studios Spider-Man movie? There *is* such a thing as "outsourcing." If you let multiple studios (Sony, Fox, MS) handle different facets of the same shared universe, then you're giving fans exactly what they want --- moar Marvel. When you try to consolidate every Marvel property at MS, then you're severely limiting yourself to the only-two-films-a-year model, which means major, MAJOR, MAJOR Marvel characters will have to get sent to the backburner. Nobody wants that.

Neither fans nor general audiences would be the least bit confused by a truly shared universe that extends across multiple studios, because they *know* that Spidey, the X-Men, and the Avengers share the same comic book universe. And questions about "well then, where were the X-Men or Spidey while the Avengers were out saving the world from aliens? Or why didn't the Avengers help the X-Men when everybody was trying to go all genocide on mutantkind?" are *age-old questions* that us fanboys have been asking the Marvel Bullpen for decades.

Look, the "whar's Spidey and Wolverine?!?" questions are tiresome, but they're definitely applicable to this thread. In the 21st century, Spidey and Wolverine ARE Avengers, thanks to Bendis, whether anyone likes it or not. So the question is going to keep coming up again and again. Grin and bear it.

I agree with all of this. The out-and-out denial that TASM could possibly at some point be part of the MCU is a little too arrogant for my liking. I see the reasoning behind Spidey being included, makes a great deal of sense to me and is quite likely a great opportunity for both Sony and Disney. I think it happens eventually, but more from the aspect of Spidey is part of the MCU, not necessarily part of The Avengers. It allows the integration of the two franchises but leaves Spidey to do his own thing, for the most part.

This thread has become tiresome. Instead of discussing the characters who can and will join the Avengers in the sequels, one person has the thread tied up in what-ifs that will never happen. This is Alexei Belyakov's revenge. Frankly, I'd rather have him back in all his irritating glory than read page after page of ill-informed drivel about Spider-Man.

I don't get the frustration. The title of the thread 'Changing the roster for Avengers 2'. If we are realistic we have but a few options to do that with Falcon via Cap2, Ant-Man/Wasp, and possibly Ms. Marvel via SHIELD TV show and GOTG (though that is just hope/speculation). There really are no other options, I guess War Machine could have a supporting role.

I don't get the frustration. The title of the thread 'Changing the roster for Avengers 2'. If we are realistic we have but a few options to do that with Falcon via Cap2, Ant-Man/Wasp, and possibly Ms. Marvel via SHIELD TV show and GOTG (though that is just hope/speculation). There really are no other options, I guess War Machine could have a supporting role.

Well, it's like this:

There is only so much you can say about something that really is not a valid option before it becomes repetitive and sucks all the life out of the discussion.

oh my god.
WHY tie him in to the avengers? He doesn't exist in the MCU. And if they give Sony's spiderman a cameo, that would be confusing.

Again, why would they have to tie him in? What would it do, besides sell extra tickets, think of the confusion. "Why aren't we getting a MCU spiderman movie?" "If he made a cameo, why can't he be an avenger?"

"So sony's universe is the same as the MCU? They are the same universe?..they aren't? then why is their spiderman making a cameo in the mcu?"

its just confusing. Too confusing. If they have a plan to buy back spidy, and give him his own full MCU movie and such, then by all means. Give him a cameo, but right now, its too confusing, hell, too risky.

Can we please talk about other potential characters appearing on the avengers roster? Venom, you once again have single handidly turned this into a spiderman in the avengers thread, which it isn't.

Make it a seperate thread if you feel the need to talk about it, and argue its case. But it needs to end here. This is a thread dedicated to the roster of the avengers in the MCU. You've said it yourself, Spiderman won't be a team member. Lets get back on topic and discuss other avengers who might appear on the roster, legitimately.

Everyone and their mother knows that Sony owns the rights to Spider-Man, but this topic is still valid as Spider-Man is a Marvel character. After all, Spider-Man is one of the biggest characters outside of the MCU, and I bet Disney would be willing to give Sony some $ to use the character in The Avengers 2 or 3 in some shape or form. We all know a movie with Spider-Man on the team would make loads of cash. $300m opening weekend doesn't seem crazy now, but saying that isn't possible because you think it isn't doesn't make any more sense than saying it could happen.

The Avengers proved that the ceiling is off, so this could end up becoming reality sooner than you think, and it's fine that you have your opinion, but I also have mine. That's my point.

As far as the roster for A2 - From Renner & Ruffalo's comments, Hawkeye & Hulk will both be back. It goes with saying Cap, IM & Thor will be back. I don't see a reason for Widow not to come back.

My guess is the only additions, if there are any, will be Ant Man & Wasp. Either one of them or both of them.

As far as Spidey - not going to happen, and as long as Marvel aren't in creative control of him I don't want it to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

If you let multiple studios (Sony, Fox, MS) handle different facets of the same shared univese, then you're giving fans exactly what they want --- moar Marvel.

Neither fans nor general audiences would be the least bit confused by a truly shared universe that extends across multiple studios, because they *know* that Spidey, the X-Men, and the Avengers share the same comic book universe. And questions about "well then, where were the X-Men or Spidey while the Avengers were out saving the world from aliens? Or why didn't the Avengers help the X-Men when everybody was trying to go all genocide on mutantkind?" are *age-old questions* that us fanboys have been asking the Marvel Bullpen for decades

The only way that even remotely happens is if both Fox & Sony reboot to bring themselves in line with MCU continuity. Also you would need one single agreed upon creative overseer to co-ordinate everything, otherwise you just have 3 big studios stepping on eachothers toes because there is too many chefs in the kitchen. Obviously in this case MS would be in charge.

None of that is goig to happen, so why even bother painstakingly planning out a shared universe if you're just going to make a clusterf*** out of it by bringing in Fox & Sony's current universes? It would taint the whole thing.

Quote:

When you try to consolidate every Marvel property at MS, then you're severely limiting yourself to the only-two-films-a-year model, which means major, MAJOR, MAJOR Marvel characters will have to get sent to the backburner. Nobody wants that.