Until Rad checks back in, I’ll offer a couple of thoughts on this. Rad’s words were “… the perverted desire of separateness from the rest of the Creation on this planet, defined through the perversion of the Natural Laws of giving, inclusion, to and for others in order to NATURALLY SURVIVE…” so what he’s referring to is humans’ separation from each other via distorted belief systems, as well as separation from other life forms on the planet, not separation from God’dess. This includes the idea that humans are “superior” to other life forms, i.e., plants, animals, etc., instead of simply different from and interdependent. The idea of this kind of separateness – the DISTORTION of it - goes back the Old Testament when humans were given “dominion over” nature. And that dominion over has created the destruction OF nature. Since the entire system IS interdependent, then we can see why humans’ extinction is looming ahead of us.

This, then, is different from being separate from God, and again even that separateness was originally distorted by the early Church via the idea of original sin. Ultimately, we did NOT separate ourSELVES from God, but quite the contrary – God created (and IS creating) each and every soul, i.e., “separating” each soul from itself and projecting ITSELF THRU each soul (Aquarius) into time/space reality (Capricorn). So in a way, God’dess itself had a “separating” desire fulfilled thru the creation. Again, to me, that’s the energy behind a “natural” desire to separate, rooted in God’dess itself. Just as universes (god) expand and contract – project out and contract back in – so we through our own desires can project away from God or choose to return, but this is rooted in God’dess itself, and therefore natural, not perverted.

Since we were given free will – also in the ‘image’ of God’dess – that, to me, is the vehicle through which we either decide to seek God and God only—to return to the Source—to reclaim or remember that we are part of that Source - or we continue to choose to separate from that source through our own free will. Considering that the choice to return is one desire, and the choice to retain the ilusion of separateness includes an unlimited number of desires, we sure can see why it takes us so long TO return. In the end, it goes back to the analogy of the wave and the sea, with each wave being being PART of the sea, but not the totality of the sea, and Yogananda's chant, "I am the bubble, make me the sea."

I’m sure Rad can add more.

And Rad, thank you so much for that extensive and detailed explanation!

Hi all, I hope its ok I chime in here with all you wonderful contributors.Rad, regarding this in your last post: "It has only been in fairly recent times that the human had begun to consider itself as superior to the totality of the Creation as manifested on this planet. Once that began it has lead to where the planet is now. And it is through this perverted desire of separatness from the rest of the Creation on this planet, defined through the perversion of the Natural Laws of giving, inclusion, to and for others in order to NATURALLY SURVIVE, that the humans have now guranteed their extinction "

Can you expand on how you define a natural desire (as opposed to perverse)to seperate that results in humanity thriving? I guess my question is if the desire to seperate is natural given the dual desire nature of the soul, how does it seperate naturally and still return to God? Is the forgotten matriarchal type ways an example, where our life was a song sung in tune with the earth and the ways of nature? but what would naturally seperating be in that type of existence? Thank you Rad, and all of you for keeping this going. Heather

The natural desire of to separate was put in motion by the Creator itself. That's why it is natural. The intention within this as designed by the Creator was for all aspects of the Creation that had conscious awareness to realize, consciously realize, that in their APPARENT separateness that defined their sense of individuality, that their origins, where they came from, what their essence was/ is , is the Creator itself. Within this core awareness is the awareness that all of the manifested Creation is thus inter-related and interdependent. All is part of the whole. It is a Natural Law. When humans lived in this way for the balance of it's history until recent times, they were thus living in a reality that as defined by 'giving, sharing, and inclusion' which equaled their need for survival as individuals, and as groups of people. When this natural desire of separateness became perverted this Natural Law of giving, sharing, and inclusion changed to self interest, and exclusion. Step back for a moment and imagine realities created by humans that were defined by the Natural Law of giving, sharing, and inclusion versus the realities that have been created by self interest and exclusion. The stark relief created in this comparison should speak for itself. A simple example: American Indians hunting for buffalo. Once the buffalo was killed the Indian would pray for the buffalo and thank it for providing food for the tribe in the understanding of how the WHOLE was interrelated, and how each part of that whole was dependent for survival on that whole. Now compare this to the White man, under the delusion of Manifest Destiny which itself manifested from their MAN CREATED, not God created, version of Christianity. And how the white man almost brought to extinction the entire Buffalo species in it's greed defined by self interest and exclusion: i.e. the White man in it's delusive self importance and superiority to all that was NOT HIM having zero awareness of the WHOLE. Thus all other aspects of the Creation were to serve it's own self interest defined by others who threatened that self interest. When the buffalo was killed on it was left to rot on the ground that it was killed after its hide had been removed. This simple example of the perversion of the natural desire to separate could be exampled in literally thousands of ways. And it is because it can , the actual reality that has been created leading right up to the present moment, that humans have guranteed their extinction. The Creator is also the origin of course of free choice. And it is through choice making that all of us are responsible for what we create.

Hi Rad, thanks for your reply, these responses have been very helpful in helping me rededicate myself to going against the grain of exclusivity and elitism that threads its way through so much of modern life. I forget somedays, when my children are crying because of being excluded, or because they've hurt someone else, that the situation calls again for compassion with boundaries, and a tremendous amount of loving, giving, inclusion and sharing to reweave the fabric of human so-called "civilization"...I fail, but seek to recommit to the ways of loving again and again...so...thank you all and these teachings and support.

Always remember that the value is in the effort even when we keep falling down. As long as we keep getting back up and trying again that is what God/ess sees, and that ongoing effort does make what we call God/ess smile big time.

Hi Rad,Somewhere in a post on this mb a few months ago someone said the value is in the effort, and I immediately wrote it down stuck it on my wall beside my sacred items... that statement has simply helped me have hope in so many ways, and mobilised positive energies in me that were waiting to be awakened, thank you again for reminding me... Blessings, Heather

I have been thinking alot about this thread/topic and wanted to contribute some thoughts I have about how to work/heal the daemon nature within the Soul. I mainly wanted to share the tremendous amount of unresolved trauma that most daemon Souls are born with that must be healed in order to actualize/re-align with the the individual's natural nature. The core issue is that because of the fundemental sense of alienation from the majority of society, and also the continual experwience of being misunderstood/expereincing many projections and wounding judgments from those in the mainstream of society the Soul is afraid of/hides his or her actual nature from the majority through the act of compensation. In other words, the Soul attempts to deny or aviod the feelings of alienation and also of unresolved trauma by creating a life style that appears on the surface as "normal". At some point, however, the Soul must come out of this hiding and heal the unresolved trauma by actualizing his or her natural nature no matter how many judgements and projections he or she comes across. The point within this that those with Daemon natures have their own journey in the context of healing and actualizing that which is natural and true within their Soul, and when counsling such people it is important to remain sensitive to the trauma that has been suffered, and the encourage the other to recover his or her actual nature in whatever way is deemed neccessary. Thanks for letting share these thoughts with you all as this is a topic of great interest to me.Deva

Thank you so much for your post -- I'm so glad you added that in to the discussion! It brings about a question I have about the Soul when it's 'in hiding' from society. On a previous EA message board, I believe I remember Stacie asking Wolf about the likelihood of a Daemon Soul not knowing or recognizing its own nature. He replied, if I remember correctly, "Not very likely."

But is it possible that, in order to adequately hide from society, in order to compensate as completely as possible, the Daemon Soul sometimes also hides from itself in so doing -- denying its own nature to ITSELF so that it can keep the living lie/compensation going in the outside world? (Or is that implied in your post?)...

Am I understanding correctly to think that the recovery of such a Soul's actual nature would have to happen inwardly first, in some if not all cases, before the Soul is comfortable enough with its identity to share it with, and thus integrate into, society at large, in a totally honest way? (Or is that implied in your post too?...I'm sorry if I'm being too literal.)

I too am glad you added onto this thread. I read in the message board archives that one of the causes for the compensation within some Daemon souls was due to persecution and/or death from the time of the Inquistion ( I believe). Since it sounds like the Daemon Soul could have been part of a natural spirituality, if they were practicing Pagans and such, this would definitely be threatening to the prevailing, dominating Christianity at that time and simply "done away with." I feel what you said, and have for a very long time, about the idea of wanting to "hide" from others who they really are( I have Pluto in the 4th). Is there a way to locate what and where the trauma occured, or is that exaclty what Pluto in the chart would tells us, since that's how it is in all cases?Also, does this Daemon archetype coorelate with the "Wanderer" archetype? Are they one and the same? Thanks again for any input. Everyone on the EA council has so much to give and I'm very grateful for all of you. Guiding Stars was a great show too, last Wednesday. Hope to hear from you soon.

I so appreciate Deva's input too. It really validates my own experience. I too have Pluto in the 4th, squared by Gem/Sag nodes and in opposition to Saturn. I know about hiding, and interestingly enough, I just listened to my reading with Maurice from earlier this year and this is exactly what we talked about.

I believe the trauma correlates to the aspects to Pluto, the 4th house position, and sign, such as Virgo. I am curious to learn what others have to say though.

Is there a correlation between soul types and religions? In the sense that natural 'religion' seems to be so aligned with the Daemon soul. Are Daemons somehow uniquely tuned to these earth realities - ? It just seems that the spiritual orientation that works best in these realities is also precisely the gifts of the Daemon.

Also, sometimes I find that it could be difficult to discern evolutionary states because of the similarity of issues - especially this issue of 'hiding' or compensation - you may think you have an individuated person when in fact they could be in the spiritual. I would think the main difference is the focus - when counselling them their spiritual natures would be revealed & the focus would be moving away from the ego, whereas in the individuated there may be no consciousness of this 'hiding' whereas the spiritual person is very aware of it (even though PTSD may shadow the extent of their hiding).....is this correct?

By the way, Oliver Fred, I think & could be wrong, that the 'inquistion' aspect was a specific past life of a particular Daemon soul.....however, it would seem that the inquistion et al is the perfect example of the distortion of the natural & Daemon or no, if you didn't comply you were suspect.

Wendy - from what I understand Uranus is the major indicator of trauma astrologically - but, Pluto is the soul, the totality...so....

Wendy, Here is a link to the main EA website that connects to a chapter Wolf wrote for a book many, many years ago. The core correlation is Uranus to trauma. Wolf goes on to define all kinds of traumas that are then linked to the different outer planets.

In terms of the time we live in now, the current yuga, the answer is no. Religion as we understand that term now is for the consensus state. Religion in this sense, and time, correlates with 'belief'. Actual spirituality, naturally speaking, requires direct inner experience, thus 'knowing' versus believing anything.

In the sense that natural 'religion' seems to be so aligned with the Daemon soul. Are Daemons somehow uniquely tuned to these earth realities - ? It just seems that the spiritual orientation that works best in these realities is also precisely the gifts of the Daemon.

Daemon Souls, shamans, have evolved their state of consciousness to be in total unity within the consciousness of what many call Gaia: the total state, consciousness, of Nature manifesting in a variety of forms. In this unified consciousness the Daemon/Shaman soul is thus aware of all the Natural Laws that exist in the time/space reality we call Earth. Being aligned and unified with these Natural Laws they are thus able to be in conscious relationships with the different states of consciousness as manifested in the various forms on Earth. The Daemon/Shaman Soul evolves, over time, into to this total state of awareness.

Also, sometimes I find that it could be difficult to discern evolutionary states because of the similarity of issues - especially this issue of 'hiding' or compensation - you may think you have an individuated person when in fact they could be in the spiritual. I would think the main difference is the focus - when counselling them their spiritual natures would be revealed & the focus would be moving away from the ego, whereas in the individuated there may be no consciousness of this 'hiding' whereas the spiritual person is very aware of it (even though PTSD may shadow the extent of their hiding).....is this correct?

No. The Soul who is in the individuate state , and who is hiding, we have created a 'double reality' in which their outer reality looks like the consensus, and their inner reality will be totally different, or detached, from it. And they are in fact aware of this fact, this duality. This is typical of the first stage individuated. In the second stage there is no duality. In the third stage individuated, in general, their entire reality is a reflection of their inner reality, thus there is no hiding other than some emotional issues, affecting their personal lives, in which they are hiding from for a variety of possible reasons.

Hi all-thanks for the feedback. Lesley-Yes, the what you wrote is what I am trying to communicate. The recovery within the Daemon Soul would be innward in the context of undoing past trauma and compensation for the natural nature. What I have experienced to is that even though the compensation may be in place, The Soul longs to come back to that natural or essential nature. Typically the Soul will attract others who can not mirror or reflect this essential nature because of the compensation that is in place. The sense of alienation, then, grows ever deeper and stronger. This is all indended so that the Soul come out of hiding so to speak. As this journey unfolds, the Soul can then remember or recover that essential nature from within him or herself. The main point within this is that Daemon Souls have typically experienced a lot of trauma, and to give such Souls a message of empowerment so that they can heal with their natural natures, and no longer feel a need to hide (feeling inwardly secure with who they are). I hope this is clear. God BlessDeva

Deva, thank you so much for your words. About 10 years ago, I had two different people (one of whom was Wolf, God bless him), within a very short span of time, tell me of my Daemon heritage, and although it was a great relief in itself back then to just have a TERM, a word, to put to my natural tendencies, desires, etc., I wasn't yet ready to deal with my many prior-life traumas and their impact on my Soul.

Every Soul's journey is unique unto itself (thank God!). In my case, I finally came around to dealing with the entirety of my prior-life background years later, when the act of compensation became too draining (Pluto in Virgo/6th retrograde oppose Mars in 12th, Full phase). And I found, after much work on this, that my Soul was increasingly enraged (Mars in Aries, conj Aries asc) for being in hiding in the first place.

I thank God every day for EA, for what Wolf has brought to us. It is a gift of staggering proportion to a Soul like mine. Thank you, Deva, Rad, our Council, and to everyone who posts here. My life is deeply and infinitely enriched by your gifts.