Most Power Wagon owners don't like bling that just don't work or don't make our trucks perform better. We like bling that actually works & makes a good truck better. There in lies the problem. We are a small niche market = not enough profit to make it worth while. "DUDE, it's a Power Wagon, it don't need anything" is the type of response I have personally gotten when I e-mailed a popular off-road truck magazine. Not acceptable to me, or many of us. As many have said earlier, it is all about the money & marketing. Putting together something with minimal cost to them & charging the maximum for it. That is the way many businesses work, sadly. We are the "You get what you pay for kinda people, the buy once-cry once kinda people. We will pay for it but also expect it to work, as advertised. I recently looked at a new lifted Toyota Tundra at the dealer. It had a cheesey lift for $67,900 ! I laughed. Told the salesman I could buy a used Ram w/Hemi for $20k or less, put a $10k Carli or Thuren lift/shocks/front end parts & have a truck that was way more HD & way better off-road. He wanted me to trade in my PW. I laughed & said not on your life. People like what they like. The better something works & the more Heavy Duty it is, the more Power Wagon owners seem to like it.

AEV certainly seems to inspire some very hard core brand loyalty as observed in this thread. That's almost PC VS MAC level Or is it Android vs iOS these days.

People tend to like what they have. And if you bought something, then you tend to justify it over and over again to everyone on why it's the best. Becuase us monkeys don't make bad decisions.

I'm willing to admit, however, that maybe I am wrong about something. And whoever thinks I'm a jerk, well alright ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'd still buy you beer. It's the internet. We all have opinions.

TwinStick, spot on. Designing for the greatest common denominator is a lot easier than trying to appease the 5 guys who want you to check all the boxes while jumping on one foot, rubbing your stomach and patting your head.

MikeKey wrote:AEV certainly seems to inspire some very hard core brand loyalty as observed in this thread. That's almost PC VS MAC level Or is it Android vs iOS these days.

People tend to like what they have. And if you bought something, then you tend to justify it over and over again to everyone on why it's the best. Becuase us monkeys don't make bad decisions.

I'm willing to admit, however, that maybe I am wrong about something. And whoever thinks I'm a jerk, well alright ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'd still buy you beer. It's the internet. We all have opinions.

TwinStick, spot on. Designing for the greatest common denominator is a lot easier than trying to appease the 5 guys who want you to check all the boxes while jumping on one foot, rubbing your stomach and patting your head.

TwinStick, spot on. Designing for the greatest common denominator is a lot easier than trying to appease the 5 guys who want you to check all the boxes while jumping on one foot, rubbing your stomach and patting your head.

Unless I'm mistaken that's the point of this thread. AEV used to focus on innovation. Now they can't even be bothered to figure out their own coil springs. BDS has been making towing capable HD coil springs forever, AEV didn't even try. Sorry, there's no achievement ribbon for "easy". It's like looking at all of your customers and telling them to eat shit.

I think it's summed up by cult of personality. They're drinking their own cool-aid. Never good for a company to believe it's own marketing. Innovation stops. Quality downgrades.

Look at the fan base, here and on FB if you DARE challenge the awesomeness of the AEV you are called stupid and berated. Your opinion is wrong, because some dude with a puffed up chest who owns one says so. You can't discuss what you like or don't like. You're a labeled a hater by default.

There is clearly no room for discussion on how to improve or what could be better. Or to ask questions. Only room to discuss how awesome something is. If it doesn't fit the narrative, then it's attacked.

That's a problem.

Thuren and Carli for example, even BDS don't have fanatical fan bases that attack nonbelievers. I suspect that's because those are suspension companies. At the end of the day, you bought a lift kit for YOUR TRUCK.

I agree 110%. Regardless of what you make, when you stop imagining and focusing on how to make something better, stronger & last longer, the company's seems to stop and begin to stagnate. It happens all the time, for many different reasons, but the customer & end consumer DOES NOT CARE ONE BIT, THEY JUST WANT WHAT THEY PAID FOR & TO WORK AS ADVERTISED. Yup, it really IS that simple for us Power Wagon owners. A company that continues to innovate, imagine & design, will continue to grow.

Trucks, for whatever reason, are a very personal thing, for most owners. Everyone has their own idea of "price justification" & applies it as they see fit. Take me for example, and my recent light install: I would certainly LOVE to be able to order up Rigid, Vision-X or even Baja Design lights. But by the time i figure in cost, actual on-time of the lights & what I am using them for, the top of the line ones just don't make sense for me, in my mind and my budget. That money is better spent elsewhere. That example is just me & just my opinion on just lights for me. My truck, like many others, is really a Jack of all Trades. It tows our camper, goes to the dump, hauls large items home, goes to the Home Improvement store & still takes us out to dinner. Most truck owners are that way. So, i guess there is the practical daily driver & then there is the single purpose vehicle. A truck on 40's is certainly cool & awesome but for a practical daily driver---it is not (unless you are in your 20's ). The majority of people want a happy medium at a reasonable price.

When I inquired once, at a spray on bedliner store, to have my rockers sprayed body color Red, they gave me a price of $1800 !!! When I asked, why so much, he said he had to buy a minimum of xx # of gallons, in that color, so he makes the first customer pay for all of it !! Needless to say, I did not have him do my truck. That is just bad business practice & he is no longer in business. To pass the cost of R&D onto the consumers is natural---up to a point. When the performance/durability increase no longer justifies the price, business falls off. But there are also many business's that have niche customers with money to spare. That just ain't the average working man, or in my case, the average retired working man.

Not sure if that all made sense, but you get the point. Lets check back in 10-20 yrs, see if it is still flourishing.

Anyone remember KORE off road? They stopped innovating once they had their suspension system dialled in. And they just fell by the wayside. They used to be leaders on the hard core ram segment. Now they are a footnote in the lands of the baja

nts007 wrote:Anyone remember KORE off road? They stopped innovating once they had their suspension system dialled in. And they just fell by the wayside. They used to be leaders on the hard core ram segment. Now they are a footnote in the lands of the baja

I remember Kore when I first got my PW. They used to be top dog for Dodge suspensions. Now, don't even hear that name mentioned.

While we can argue all night and day about the AEV setup on a power wagon, I don't think we can really compare their business model (and successes) to many other off-road suspension and accessory companies.

Not many have been in the market place 20 years, established a vast dealership network, been an integral part of a major vehicle manufactures product lineup, had their parts sold (with factory warranties) at dealerships all over the world and won a few prestigious automotive design awards.

Im pretty sure with the JL coming out soon, they will have (yet another) major cash stream to continue to grow their business... One that should keep this afloat for a bit longer than some may hope

From just a pure business standpoint, id say they are doing damn fine (speaking from a self employed business owners perspective of corse).

When you start ignoring customers no matter how small or simple they seem to you, you're on a downhill slide. And with the internet now it's even faster. 20 years is about the right point for a company to become complacent and overreach itself. Faster and cheaper is a common forum in the automotive industry. If it's sales numbers over product quality it doesn't take long. You talk about 2 products that aev has that are decent. If you count their procal then make it 3. But a hood that's thinner than the factory one? "Lift kits" that in my opinion are no better than a hockey puck lift? Yea that's right. A hockey puck lift could clear 40s too and not affect the suspension geometry. They have weak brackets and some rebadged wheels. For a mall crawler GREAT! Have at er. This is the F'n powerwagon forum. This isn't Mall crawlers united! So yea. Your products will get called out here for not being up to the standard of FUNCTIONAL off road gear. I swear some of you new 4 1/2gen guys have just come from a raptor and it's all bout the bling and how deep your wallets are. Find that offensive? Well that offends me that you do. Because I know I'm not completely right but I'm not completely wrong either. Can we please just bury this aev thread. It lost its entertainmaint on page 3

nts007 wrote:When you start ignoring customers no matter how small or simple they seem to you, you're on a downhill slide. And with the internet now it's even faster. 20 years is about the right point for a company to become complacent and overreach itself. Faster and cheaper is a common forum in the automotive industry. If it's sales numbers over product quality it doesn't take long. You talk about 2 products that aev has that are decent. If you count their procal then make it 3. But a hood that's thinner than the factory one? "Lift kits" that in my opinion are no better than a hockey puck lift? Yea that's right. A hockey puck lift could clear 40s too and not affect the suspension geometry. They have weak brackets and some rebadged wheels. For a mall crawler GREAT! Have at er. This is the F'n powerwagon forum. This isn't Mall crawlers united! So yea. Your products will get called out here for not being up to the standard of FUNCTIONAL off road gear. I swear some of you new 4 1/2gen guys have just come from a raptor and it's all bout the bling and how deep your wallets are. Find that offensive? Well that offends me that you do. Because I know I'm not completely right but I'm not completely wrong either. Can we please just bury this aev thread. It lost its entertainmaint on page 3

Pit Slave wrote:Ok, I have one more thing to add or should I say ask... Out of all the defense talk about AEV, not one person who speaks highly of them has explained why the thread deletion?

That's like the last put off for me. I noticed yesterday too they seem to have migrated to a new forum software and noticed more threads removed. There was a thread about an AEV rack I was trying to find that they closed and now seems removed. Honestly, if you don't want people asking questions, why bother with a forum?

I dunno. Unless they have something real compelling, I don't think I'll be buying anything else from AEV. Which is a shame, I thought their wheels had one of the better offsets for Rams.

zigsrig wrote:While we can argue all night and day about the AEV setup on a power wagon, I don't think we can really compare their business model (and successes) to many other off-road suspension and accessory companies.

Not many have been in the market place 20 years, established a vast dealership network, been an integral part of a major vehicle manufactures product lineup, had their parts sold (with factory warranties) at dealerships all over the world and won a few prestigious automotive design awards.

Im pretty sure with the JL coming out soon, they will have (yet another) major cash stream to continue to grow their business... One that should keep this afloat for a bit longer than some may hope

From just a pure business standpoint, id say they are doing damn fine (speaking from a self employed business owners perspective of corse).

Teraflex has been around longer and more involved in FCA vehicles. AEV barely has a presence in dealerships. You randomly see Prospectors, Jeep accessories are far more prevalent and it is not normally AEV in dealerships. AEV was the shop that stretched Jeeps, had some cool Ferrari looking wheels, high fender kits, and later engine swaps. All boutique.

zigsrig wrote:While we can argue all night and day about the AEV setup on a power wagon, I don't think we can really compare their business model (and successes) to many other off-road suspension and accessory companies.

Not many have been in the market place 20 years, established a vast dealership network, been an integral part of a major vehicle manufactures product lineup, had their parts sold (with factory warranties) at dealerships all over the world and won a few prestigious automotive design awards.

Im pretty sure with the JL coming out soon, they will have (yet another) major cash stream to continue to grow their business... One that should keep this afloat for a bit longer than some may hope

From just a pure business standpoint, id say they are doing damn fine (speaking from a self employed business owners perspective of corse).

Teraflex has been around longer and more involved in FCA vehicles. AEV barely has a presence in dealerships. You randomly see Prospectors, Jeep accessories are far more prevalent and it is not normally AEV in dealerships. AEV was the shop that stretched Jeeps, had some cool Ferrari looking wheels, high fender kits, and later engine swaps. All boutique.

Also, little do people know Sage Carli was involved with Ram's decision to make the switch to radius arms. It was ram that wanted to look into what Carli had at the time, the then, new radius arms from Carli.

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit

Nothing's more dead than a horse in a glue bottle.

There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation.
One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
John Adams - 1826

I'll be honest that I haven't read all of your comments But I've got to say this about the whole AEV situation. I've had my power wagon for almost 12 years and I always upgrade to more functional parts and I have always wheeled it from about day 6. Every upgrade has offroad in mind. When I first heard about AEV I didn't catch anything about dealing with the power wagon / dodge weaknesses so I spoke up at that time. By the time I heard of AEV I was already on my 5th steering system. Do not expect to go offroad on 40"s, locked front and on rocks with stock steering. I'm pretty sure the dodge engineers that put our steering systems into place where using some of the new math. Offroad and locked on 37"s was just too hard on my first 4 steering set ups. I used to twist sector shafts right off of the steering boxes till I started hydro assist then the problem spots just moved to other parts

As for the drivetrain around year 9 I had to have my front axle shafts replaced with some mating parts and transfer case rebuilt after stretched chain. Unit bearings at front hubs were swapped about every 3rd year till dynatrac free spin kit. This was all likely due to running 37"s and offroading often. Many other drivetrain parts were replaced too but where oh shit moments. If I were to go to 40"s I would get the diff gears to 5.13 and get mild trusses on top of axles.

With all of this in mind, If I ever get really serious about going big then I'll get a pair of axletech 4000 or larger axles and shoot for 54". AEV won't have anything to do with the truck, it'll be East Coast Gear supply to do the work and Boyce equipment for axles.

Pit Slave wrote:Ok, I have one more thing to add or should I say ask... Out of all the defense talk about AEV, not one person who speaks highly of them has explained why the thread deletion?

Yeah, I smoked 'em, sometimes you just gotta #sendit

This was just posted on their forum. It is true that they changed versions of vbulletin. (And also a ton of spam was being sent via PM, I can confirm that). Tapatalk may not be reinstalled which sucks.

Nice cover story. My thread was deleted prior to the changeover. The closed rack thread was much older. More like they pruned shit they don't want there. Just admit that and stop being sly. Some of us work on the web daily. We're not stupid to this BS. It was lost and unrecoverable. Um ok, guess who ever did that is a dumbass that deletes databases? Give me a break.