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Monday, June 16, 2014

Chat Between Two Poets - Susan Chast

Time for another chat, my friends and, when I saw this poem by Poets United staff member, Susan Chast, I asked if she might be willing to chat about it, and she replied "With pleasure!" Yay! Susan writes, as you know, at Susan's Poetry. We are very lucky to have her on staff, and don't we know it! So let's dive in!

I am Atlas, too,
one of you, training
to hold the pain of
the spheres differently
moment by moment—I
have no choice—
therefore I inhale
into every joint
and body organ
therefore I exhale
and reduce pressure.
I can’t put it down
and so I relax.

Moment by moment
Atlas holds her pain
and will not let go,
choosing whether I
hold pain with tai chi
arms against a soft
chi-centered body
or out in front where
I can neither smell
nor feel it, as if
taking out days old
garbage and anxious
to wash my fingers.

Forgive me.
Moment
by moment, Atlas
learns no garbage can
exists, smell remains,
that all the perfumes

of Arabiawill not sweeten these
hands—but she won't stop.
I am Atlas, too,
one of you, learning
to ease my task by
exhaling tension
and inhaling love.

Sherry: This is my all-time favorite poem of yours,
Susan. I struggle with the same task - seeing all that is out there, and
learning how to hold it, while trying to stay loving in the now. This is a
wonderful, uplifting and inspiring poem. Such a hugely appropriate message for
these times.I am so interested in hearing about it, what it means, how it came about,
your process in writing it. Please dive right in!

Susan:I will, I promise. But first,
can you tell me what inspired you? What you got from the poem?

Sherry: So
much! On reading it, I felt replenished and hopeful because, while the poem
addresses the fact of all that we earthlings worry so much about, it also gives
us a prescription for “how to carry the pain,” and how to help ourselves handle
the weight of all that we know, that might make us despair, if we did not have
resources, faith and hope to offset the knowledge of all that is wrong on this
planet that we love so dearly.

Susan: Wow, Sherry, that's what I had hoped! Thanks. I got the idea for this poem from reading the
daily meditations of Fr.
Richard Rohr of the Center for Action and
Contemplation. His meditations are available through his Facebook page as
well. Recently he's been contrasting the energies of the first and second half
of life. He says the second half is radically different from the first because
we fight less, participate more and generally have a wiser and healthier
approach to life. I know I am oversimplifying. His approach is new
to me, yet it resonates with me.

My poems lately wrestle with second half of
life possibilities as if I am Jacob and aging is the angel. Aging hurts,
literally, so how can the fight end well? I'm working it out in my
writing.

Sherry: I’m working it out in my living! I’ve got a head
start on you, so I’ll let you know how it ends. Smiles. But the second half of life offers gifts of wisdom and understanding. I would not trade it for the first half. Heavy though the load might feel, on any given day.

Susan: In "Our Options," I use the image of
Atlas holding up the spheres to examine the difference between continuing to
struggle vs. stopping the struggle, to look at the possibility of laying the
burden down altogether—a burden that is rightfully ours. I toyed with the
idea of using the image of Sisyphus pushing his boulder up the hill over and
over—but Sisyphus is merely being punished. He is not responsible for the rock.
We are responsible for the condition of our skies; humans defeat
ourselves. I love the feminist/native American saying that
"women hold up half the sky." And I discovered on Wikipedia
that Atlas wasn't holding the globe but the Celestial Spheres, and that he
controlled astronomy, astrology, and navigation. Perfect!

Without Atlas, Chicken Little may well say "The sky
is falling." And as you say, Sherry, our sky is falling. One Atlas is not the answer; neither you nor I
can hold it alone. And that’s where the idea of being one of many Atlases
came from.

Sherry: This is so fascinating. I love getting into the nitty gritty of a poem. When we read, we
often gain only the surface meaning. In this case, your poem has such depth, one
could send deep sea divers down, and still not get all of the content.

“To look at the possibility of laying down the burden
altogether”.......that gives me pause. I, too, love “women hold up half the sky”.
At least half, given we mother all of humankind. (Wow! No wonder we get tired!)

Susan: Next, I considered what it would be like to
be an Atlas with my body, one with pain from nerve damage and fibromyalgia,
especially in legs and knees. I know that this is familiar to you and
many others in “the second half” of life. We take medicines, change
our diets, move, and do whatever we can to ease the pain without curtailing too
much activity. In physical therapy, I am experiencing that strength
and range of motion exercises are more effective with breath
support, with relaxed and ready muscles and with mindfulness—rather than
forcing and rushing. I have to take my time when lifting, pushing, walking
and climbing steps. And I have to rest a lot.

My dramatically impatient flair is suffering, and my
sharp ready answers are slowing down, but oddly enough, life seems more
beautiful. Imagine that in many Atlases? A caring Atlas committed
to his fate, but also fully himself, rooted, lithe, breathing, ready and
present? Able to see not only the mess but the beauty?
So we train to hold “the pain of the spheres differently” with regard to
our purpose, the burden itself, and ourselves.

Sherry: I resonate strongly with “training to hold the
pain of the spheres differently” – the simultaneous joy and pain of seeing the incredible beauty of life in this world, of the planet itself, and its vulnerability. And our vulnerability. This reminds me of what an environmentalist friend
of mine once said to me: “Mother Earth feels your pain. Let her feel your joy,
too.” That has stuck with me for over twenty years.

Our choice – whether
to hold our pain “with a soft chi-centered body”, or out in front “as if taking
out days old garbage” – anxious not to touch it, to quickly wash it away. Then the
clincher, that “no garbage can exists, and all the perfumes of Arabia will not
sweeten these hands”. Wow, that says it all. The garbage is rising everywhere,
even in the oceans, and we cannot wish it away, no matter how we avert our
eyes. It will wash up on our shores.

Susan: The burden of the environment is ours, as you say,
and I wish we could just make it disappear. But we can’t wish it or throw it
away. That made me think of Shakespeare’s Lady Macbeth who hurt herself
by perverting hospitality into murder, and had blood on her hands. I used
her line “all the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten these hands.” And
then you, Sherry, filled in the blank by saying “The garbage is rising
everywhere, even in the oceans, and we cannot wish it away, no matter how we
avert our eyes. It will wash up on our shores.”

Sherry: We cant put
it down – the weight that we carry. All we can do is bear it, and find ways to
ease it. Thus, your lines about breathing and trying to relax speak to me.

Susan: “Let us see what love can do” guided the holy
experiment of William Penn, when he established colonial government in
Pennsylvania and Philadelphia, and has guided Quaker projects everywhere.
This is not a hippy love-in, but work within the unconditional love that many
experience with their concepts of God. It is the basis of restorative
justice in South Africa, efforts to save animals after oil spills and
deforestation, the attempt to prevent destruction of cultures and
environments. It is a matter of finding every living thing worthy of
love, including yourself.

Sherry: “Including ourselves” is what we so often forget,
given the desperate need all around us. I love that reminder. I find the closing of your poem brilliant, and nurturing, and full of
hope : a prescription for alleviating
the pain – always a good thing for people to take away from one’s poem. “I am one of you, too, learning to ease my
task by exhaling tension and inhaling love.” This sent me away feeling reassured,
and with renewed hope that all is not lost. As long as peaceful beings can keep
breathing out love, compassion and peace, perhaps we can shift the
transformation of consciousness after all. For if we don’t, the very axis of
the earth itself might tip, and a new day will
dawn – with or without us.

Yoiks! That just
depressed me so much, I need to read your poem all over again!

Susan: I am happy if reading my poem helps.
(grin.)

Sherry: Thank you, Susan, for your poem and this chat. I will try even harder to inhale tension and exhale love. It is truly the best hope that we have.

I hope you enjoyed this chat as much as I did, my friends. Do come back and see who we talk to next. I'll give you a hint: next week's interview is a poet who is also an amazing artist - there will be visual treats scattered through the entire post. Yay!

nice...i like the breaking down of the poem to hear susans inspirations....it helps us to appreciate the depth of the piece...it is our responsibility...true that...and the training to hold the spheres differently is intriguing and thought provoking...

Thank you for this most interesting chat between poets, Susan and Sherry. I found it very thought-provoking. It is important for those of us who 'can't put it down' to remember that we are not alone, that we only share some of the responsibility in trying to make the world a better place.

Sherry and Susan, I am greatly moved by the discussion of Susan's poem. We cannot put down the weight that we carry, but we can find a way to hold the pain that can make it bearable. Thanks to both of you for this!

Thank you all for reading and commenting. Having a conversation with Sherry about my poem was a great experience, and I hope you each get the opportunity. Thank you, Sherry, for giving me so much feedback in our chat and for suggesting it in the first place.

I loved our chat! These chats are becoming my favorite feature, as each one is so different, each brings something exciting to the table. What I loved most was, before you began chatting about your poem, you asked me for my response to it, what I got from it.........that was kind of seriously cool, my friend. Then we had lots to talk about! Thank you so much for taking part. I enjoyed every minute!

Wonderful! For some reason I think of the struggle being with my sides of the brain. The creative muse and the logic in me fight daily~ A great inspired view-thank you Susan for sharing with us! Thank you Sherry for highlighting Susan's gifts~

I tried to comment last night, but it wouldn't go through. Of course, Susan, you and Sherry both know how much I enjoyed this conversation. I imagined the three of us together, you two talking while I listened. Wonderful, wonderful.Love, Kay

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