Looking at life through the eyes of a tired hubEating seeds as a pastime activityThe toxicity of our city, of our cityNow, what do you own the world?How do you own disorder, disorderNow somewhere between the sacred silenceSacred silence and sleepSomewhere, between the sacred silence and sleepDisorder, disorder, disorderMore wood for the fires, loud neighboursFlishlight riveries caught in the headlights of a truckNow, what do you own the world?How do you own disorder, disorderNow somewhere between the sacred silenceSacred silence and sleepSomewhere between the sacred silence and sleepDisorder, disorder, disorderNow, what do you own the world?How do you own disorder, disorderNow somewhere between the sacred silenceSacred silence and sleepSomewhere, between the sacred silence and sleepDisorder, disorder, disorderWhen I became the sunI shone life into the mans heartsWhen I became the sunI shone life into the mans hearts

_________________A child of Discord A follower of ConflictA member of the Brigade

What I don't get is how do you know if an item is +backstab? As far as I know, there is no way to really tell. Part of this is due to the fact that the backstab bonus is not displayed anywhere, another part is due to the fact that an item can have stats which YOU don't get but another person does (because of level, class, race, alignment, etc, restrictions).

Further backstab bonus is really unlike any other stat, it shouldn't be compared to stopping or full heal anything because it works completely and totally differently. You don't have to have +backstab bonus and in fact, other areas may be better for you. It is your job to figure out the right balance to make your character as effective as possible.

Anyways, your point is taken -- Nas believes we need more +backstab bonus stuff in the game. My guess would be players feel like they can never have enough bonuses in general.

I hear you man, but the same goes for thieves. I did have a high level thief some time ago and to be honest i didn't think there was anything wrong with equipment that was available. Thing is there wasn't any thieves around so I didnt have to worry about others hoarding any rare equipment. So maybe that's the problem here. I've also been crying about getting some cool equipment for illuisionists back in the day when you weren't around, and now years later, nothing new, nothing changed.

NAS -- ARE YOU TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE AFFECTS OF +HIDE? HOW ABOUT +SNEAK? HOW ABOUT SIMPLE THINGS LIKE +HITROLL OR +DAMROLL? WHAT ABOUT OTHER ATTRIBUTES YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT (BECAUSE THEY AREN'T DISPLAYED ANYWHERE)? FURTHER, WHAT YOU DESCRIBE IS ONLY WHAT AFFECTS YOU... THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T SOMETHING +BACKSTAB ON THE ITEM THAT YOUR RACE OR ALIGNMENT DOESN'T GET, FOR EXAMPLE.

My point is simply that you can tell if something impacts your backstab, but you do NOT necessarily know if it is because of the +backstab bonus. Just because it is what you believe doesn't make it so.

I know you've played the game a long time and your input is appreciated and respected, and again, YOUR POINT IS TAKEN. I understand you think the game needs more +backstab bonus equipment. I was merely trying to point out that you can't really know for sure.

Forward yesterdayMakes me wanna stayWhat they said was realMakes me wanna stealLivin under houseGuess Im livin, Im a mouseAlls I gots is timeGot no meaning, just a rhyme

Take time with a wounded handcause it likes to healTake time with a wounded handcause I like to stealTake time with a wounded handcause it likes to heal, I like to steal

Im half the man I used to meThis I feel as the dawnIt fades to grayWell, Im half the man I used to beThis I feel as the dawnIt fades to grayWell, Im half the man I used to meThis I feel as the dawnIt fades to grayWell, Im half the man I used to be, half the man I used to be

Take time with a wounded handcause it likes to healTake time with a wounded handGuess I like to stealTake time with a wounded handcause it likes to heal, I like to steal

Im half the man I used to meThis I feel as the dawnIt fades to grayIm half the man I used to beThis I feel as the dawnIt fades to grayIm half the man I used to beThis I feel as the dawnIt fades to grayIm half the man I used to be, half the man I used to be

Take time with a wounded handcause it likes to healTake time with a wounded handGuess I like to stealTake time with a wounded handcause it likes to heal, I like to steal

Im half the man I used to meThis I feel as the dawnIt fades to grayIm half the man I used to beThis I feel as the dawnIt fades to grayIm half the man I used to beThis I feel as the dawnIt fades to grayIm half the man I used to be, half the man I used to be,Half the man I used to be

_________________A child of Discord A follower of ConflictA member of the Brigade

Nas, first off, I don't think you are taking my point into consideration. I *am* taking your point into consideration as I've now said 3 times. Your character hasn't even touched 20% of the items possible to obtain in the game. You may have tried lots of different races, but you haven't tried them all and I was just providing that as an example of the things that can affect whether or not a bonus is given. Have you tried each different alignment? How about each class? Have you tried them all at every single different level? The backstab bonus affects more than your class. Oh, and by the way, fully 20% of the characters on DL have the ability to backstab -- you are NOT the only backstabber. How can you know how much damage your backstab does anyway? NPCs (even those of the exact same type) have different hit points. How do you know if a NPC has a partial resistance to backstab? (Especially if it is very minimal.) Hitroll and damroll can be (AND ARE!) on things besides weapons. For the record, I was able to find both an item for a spot you didn't list as well as the potential to more than double your current backstab bonus.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I think you are wrong or that we don't need more items that give a backstab bonus, I just don't think it deserves the emphasis you've placed on it. If someone wants to build it, I'm all for it.

She eyes me like a pisces when I am weakIve been locked inside your heart-shaped box for weeksIve been drawn into your magnet tar pit trapI wish I could eat your cancer when you turn back (alt: ... when you turn black)

Hey! wait!Ive got a new complaintForever in debt to your priceless adviceHey! wait! (alt: hate! haight!)Ive got a new complaintForever in debt to your priceless adviceHey! wait!Ive got a new complaintForever in debt to your priceless adviceYour advice

Meat-eating orchids forgive no one just yetCut myself on angels hair and babys breathBroken hymen of your highness Im left blackThrow down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back

Hey! wait!Ive got a new complaintForever in debt to your priceless adviceHey! wait!Ive got a new complaintForever in debt to your priceless adviceHey! wait!Ive got a new complaintForever in debt to your priceless adviceYour advice

She eyes me like a pisces when I am weakIve been locked inside your heart-shaped box for weeksIve been drawn into your magnet tar pit trapI wish I could eat your cancer when you turn back (alt: ... when you turn black)

Hey! wait!Ive got a new complaintForever in debt to your priceless adviceHey! wait!Ive got a new complaintForever in debt to your priceless adviceHey! wait!Ive got a new complaintForever in debt to your priceless advice

_________________A child of Discord A follower of ConflictA member of the Brigade

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