Just to be clear heres what our draft picks have netted us from 07-11 that are still members of the team. 20 picks a piece and 8 starters a piece in same time frame in spite of the Edwards,Otah, and Brown trade's which occurred in same time frame.(starters in bold)

Godfrey's nothing to brag that much about. Neither is Hardy. LaFell is decent but still not there yet. Johnson is ridiculously overpaid even given last weekend.

Kalil, Stewart and Beason are good, but do you think anyone outside of Pantherland would take them over their Steeler equivalents?

And to be clear, the reason I went back to 2007 originally was because I was looking at Don Gregory's tenure. Take a look back further (especially 2005) and it continues.

If you want a truly depressing exercise though, look back at some of the picks that were still on the board when we made some of those choices.

I just pointed out the starters only reason the likes of Godfrey and Keenan Lewis were mentioned.

I think everyone would take Kalil and Stewart over Pouncey and Mendenhall all day every day. Go back to 05 for the Steelers and it gets worst for them too. Its hard to compare Beason to their LB's. But are you insuating he was bad a pick now??

Ziggy Hood is nothing to brag about for them. Neither is Keenan Lewis. They are in danger of losing their best offensive weapon next year in Mike Wallace because of the Contract given to Antonio Brown.

So you you think Mendenhall and Pouncey are better than Stewart and Kalili...Unreal. People get on certain agenda's and make ludicrous statements to justify their unreasonable stance and a comment like that is a perfect example.

Lastly you think CJ is grossly overpaid. Do you think thats because Hurney offered more than he had to retain him? Losing him would have been a huge blow and even those who lead the Hurney hate parade have mentioned that it was the right move. BTW since he signed that Contract he has more sacks than Julius Peppers and 90% of the other starting DE's in the league.

Hard to find a GM that bats 1.000 on draft picks. Hurney does better than most on the picks in the early rounds, which is a good thing, but he doesn't play Free Agency like he used to, which may not be. That could be on orders, no one is ever going to say.

The three biggest impacts he's had on the organization is hiring Fox, drafting Cam, and hiring Rivera.

Three biggest mistakes were Everette Brown, the whole Peppers thing, and losing Jenkins.

And he's on his own hot seat, JR's never going to fire him.

Accord to Bill Polian a GM should hit at least 50% on draft picks and I read where Hurney is hitting in the 45% range.After listening to him yesterday on radio 610 I think he is delusional.When ask about our secondary he defended the level of talent both as a unit and specifically Naka and Josh Norman.Now I know he has to defend individual players but not to the extent he did.If you think about it what the hell is he thinking a 5th round pick from a weak division that missed preseason can start at cb in the NFL?I think the guy will be good if his confidence is not shattered by the end of this season.On Naka he stated it was only one bad play that defined his effort against Atlanta and felt other than that he played well.I am sorry but this guy is not a good starting FS.......dont care how you slice it or dice it.From the interview it sounded as though he was about ready to fire himself

I just pointed out the starters only reason the likes of Godfrey and Keenan Lewis were mentioned.

I think everyone would take Kalil and Stewart over Pouncey and Mendenhall all day every day. Go back to 05 for the Steelers and it gets worst for them too. Its hard to compare Beason to their LB's. But are you insuating he was bad a pick now??

Ziggy Hood is nothing to brag about for them. Neither is Keenan Lewis. They are in danger of losing their best offensive weapon next year in Mike Wallace because of the Contract given to Antonio Brown.

So you you think Mendenhall and Pouncey are better than Stewart and Kalili...Unreal. People get on certain agenda's and make ludicrous statements to justify their unreasonable stance and a comment like that is a perfect example.

Lastly you think CJ is grossly overpaid. Do you think thats because Hurney offered more than he had to retain him? Losing him would have been a huge blow and even those who lead the Hurney hate parade have mentioned that it was the right move. BTW since he signed that Contract he has more sacks than Julius Peppers and 90% of the other starting DE's in the league.

I also would take Stewart and Kalil over Mendenhall and Pouncey, but I'm not so sure "everyone" would, unless the "everyone" is all Panther fans.

Under Hurney, we've drafted Sione Fua, Terrell McClain, Corvey Irvin, and Nick Hayden at defensive tackle. Which one of those would you take over Ziggy Hood?

And you wanna tell me what you've seen of Charles Johnson since his contract signing is worth 70 million plus, more than some other top DEs around the league?

And here's a 'rubber meets the read' question. Since 2002, the rosters produced by the Steeler system have faced one losing season and one 500 season. Every other year they've been in the playoffs. Two of those years they won the Super Bowl and two others they were in it.

Now tell me, what's the Panthers record in that time period?

Do you really wanna compare their roster building system and ours? And remember if you do that this is a team which doesn't go after big free agents and even lets a fair share of their own walk if their contract demands are too high.

I also would take Stewart and Kalil over Mendenhall and Pouncey, but I'm not so sure "everyone" would, unless the "everyone" is all Panther fans.

Under Hurney, we've drafted Sione Fua, Terrell McClain, Corvey Irvin, and Nick Hayden at defensive tackle. Which one of those would you take over Ziggy Hood?

And you wanna tell me what you've seen of Charles Johnson since his contract signing is worth 70 million plus, more than some other top DEs around the league?

And here's a 'rubber meets the read' question. Since 2002, the rosters produced by the Steeler system have faced one losing season and one 500 season. Every other year they've been in the playoffs. Two of those years they won the Super Bowl and two others they were in it.

Now tell me, what's the Panthers record in that time period?

Do you really wanna compare their roster building system and ours? And remember if you do that this is a team which doesn't go after big free agents and even lets a fair share of their own walk if their contract demands are too high.

Any non Steeler fan would take Kalil and Stewart over pouncey and Mendenhall..not just biased panther fans.

Hurney has never used a first round pick on a DT, so clever and all to compare ours to a first round pick who plays DE in a 3-4 and he's not even worth bragging about unless you compare him to late draft picks.

John Fox would have killed their nice shiny record if he was the coach there. No GM in the leauge is 100% responsible for the losses or wins of their franchise. Their job is to draft well and formulate a team that matches what their head coach wants and believes will create success. Pioli looked like a god until going to the Chiefs. The reality is every team in the NFL has talent.It truely is an any given sunday league where any team can beat the other, the tiebreaker in most situations is overall health and how coaches manage the game. I personally think Hurney has done everything within his power to build the right rosters for his head coaches.

I don't think many could do a better job than what he has. He falls on the sword for everything and the truth is Fox should have been fired no later than 09 and the 2010 season is all JR'S doing to get this team back on the right track. It really was a neccesary evil, that was created when JR decided to give Fox a 2nd chance and forced Hurney's hand in making bold moves that backfired like re-signing Delhomme and trading up for Everette Brown.

Hurney is not without fault's. In hindsight the Otah move was bad one long term, but no GM can predict future injuries.

Fox really crapped this team out bad. It started with Jenkins calling him out publicly and demanding a trade. Then Peppers tried to be politically correct about it and say he wanted to play for a 3-4 team(blatant lie obviously). There has been some extremely unfortunant things happen to this entire franchise. Fields getting cancer, Thomas Davis tearing 3 ACL's, Beasons Achilles Injury,smiths various injuries/suspensions, the list goes on and on.

This team has had talent every year. Hell he took over a 7-9 team, led them to a 11-5 record and superbowl appearance that was only lost due a terrible kick by Kasay.

Then in 04 we fell to 7-9, how did that happen? Well Davis, Foster, Jenkins all went out early with injuries, then Morgan and his concussions.

Ok so 05 we bounce back to 11-5 after making some nice additions in free agency.

06 we go back to 8-8 after the injury bug hits again.We had a winning record before losing our qb

07 we replinished Fox's need to have a running back anchor our offense with Deangelo. Problem was we got crushed with injuries again and got all the way down to vinny testaverde at QB and we fall to 7-9.

08- okay were back 12-4 behind a power rushing attack led by our 2 draft picks stewart and Otah, only to have Jake meltdown in the playoff loss to AZ.

09- things go to hell here and J.R has had it. He says Fox your done. Well actually I am going to keep you as a lame duck coach in 2010 and cut everybody.

10-we prepped for the lockout, kept a lame duck head coach and got fugged bad.

11- rebuilding begins. Things are looking up, we lead the leauge in "moral victories" hanging with the NFL's best teams and fall short when half our D goes down again and Mare shits the bed.

12-many holes were fixed by default with players returning from injury. In addition we find a playmaker at LB who many were calling the next coming of Urlacher to protect us from our injury prone LBing core. Then we find a bulldozing guard in the 2nd round and cut the underperfoming Wharton who is on the downside of his career. Revamp the entire special team core. Steal a stud corner in the 5th, add another good passrushing threat in Alexander and injury free....things look like poo now because we lost a close one to Atlanta and a depleted Giants roster embarresd us at home but not all hope is lost yet.

Any non Steeler fan would take Kalil and Stewart over pouncey and Mendenhall..not just biased panther fans.

Hurney has never used a first round pick on a DT, so clever and all to compare ours to a first round pick who plays DE in a 3-4 and he's not even worth bragging about unless you compare him to late draft picks.

John Fox would have killed their nice shiny record if he was the coach there. No GM in the leauge is 100% responsible for the losses or wins of their franchise. Their job is to draft well and formulate a team that matches what their head coach wants and believes will create success. Pioli looked like a god until going to the Chiefs. The reality is every team in the NFL has talent.It truely is an any given sunday league where any team can beat the other, the tiebreaker in most situations is overall health and how coaches manage the game.

Seriously doubt it's that cut and dry as far as those choices.

Draft priorities play into how you build a roster.

And you say John Fox would have destroyed the Steelers record. Tell me, who hired John Fox?

Accord to Bill Polian a GM should hit at least 50% on draft picks and I read where Hurney is hitting in the 45% range.After listening to him yesterday on radio 610 I think he is delusional.When ask about our secondary he defended the level of talent both as a unit and specifically Naka and Josh Norman.Now I know he has to defend individual players but not to the extent he did.If you think about it what the hell is he thinking a 5th round pick from a weak division that missed preseason can start at cb in the NFL?I think the guy will be good if his confidence is not shattered by the end of this season.On Naka he stated it was only one bad play that defined his effort against Atlanta and felt other than that he played well.I am sorry but this guy is not a good starting FS.......dont care how you slice it or dice it.From the interview it sounded as though he was about ready to fire himself

Just want to point out that those are Rivera's decisions, not Hurney's. Those guys are both good and proven on special teams, fwiw.

I'm interested in where you're reading about Hurney hitting in the 45% range. Got a link?

I think he'll probably quit in the next year or two if the Panthers don't turn things around. But I still don't think JR will fire him.

All you Hurney apologists always bring up how good he is in the 1st round.

Well no poo.

He has drafted 3 Linebackers and 2 runningbacks out of the 11 selections that he's had in 12 years.

Guess what the best picks are if you don't want to whiff on them?

LB's and RB's. They rarely wash out, and those are the positions that are normally stat poppers. They get loads of tackles and touchdowns, so it looks/seems like it's a great pick.

But there is a downside. LB in a 43, and RB's in today's NFL are not as valuable as the days of yesteryear. They don't equate to winning anymore.

I'm not even going to bring up EB in this one.

His picks in later rounds have proven to be as good as anyone else's. He took a MLB in Beason who nobody ever dare bitch about until his injury. Davis was brought in to stop Vick and help us in our division and if not for injuries would be lauded as one of Hurney's best picks of all time.

ETA: It's funny as hell to start seeing GM hate threads pop up after the season starts. Just sayin' and all but once the season kicks off the GM's work is about 90% over. If he has not got it together by then then he probably won't. So since very few people crucified the guy like this during camp, the draft, pre season, etc. and now I cannot throw a rock in any direction around here without hitting some poster who wants to hang Marty Hurney from his nuts in week 5, I felt the need to formally present this information as exhibit "Q" in the Football Intelligence vs. Carolina Huddle posters case.