NZ teen suicide problem on Al Jazeera

Mariah Herbert is 20 years old and lives in Northland, New Zealand. A decade ago, she lost her older sister to suicide, and last year a friend for the same reason. She has tried to end her life at least twice, and has a younger sister who has also contemplated taking hers. But her story is not unique.

According to a recent UNICEF report, New Zealand has the highest youth suicide rate in the developed world for teenagers aged 15-19 years old. The rate is 15.6 suicides per 1000 people, which is twice as high as the United States and five times that of the Britain – numbers that have been largely steady for about two decades.

The country has a complicated relationship with the word “suicide”. For the past few decades, schools have been advised not use it, or discuss it in the open. The media has been under gag order for fear of contagion. And laws around it are complex. Recently, though, it has come out of the shadows in the form of prevention and awareness initiatives.

Experts have been looking into the many reasons youth suicide is a such a huge problem. School bullying records are poor, there are high rates of family violence and child abuse. Potentially, there are also cultural reasons – Maori/Pacific Islanders are particularly affected. Others say the issue is simply one of teen confidence and low self-esteem that is being mislabeled and poorly handled due to stigma. And suicide has become political. The government is working on a strategy for suicide prevention and spending millions on initiatives.

On the next Stream, we’ll take a closer look at what’s behind the high youth suicide rate in New Zealand, and discuss potential solutions to solving the problem.

Alan Wilkinson

Gezza

Who’s going to suddenly decide to kill themselves & then stop because they read the bloody Herald? Those people in that video link get it! Mike King’s gets a bit murky at one point but at another he nails it! For some anyway. He nails what our culture is & what it does to some kids!

Alan Wilkinson

Gezza

Brown

There you go, name calling already. That won’t hep anyone. My step daughter would be ranting at you about now (and I mean frothing at the mouth ranting) because its sexist, racist or homophobic (or something) because you used the word pansies in a way that would offend her. There’s thousands like her out there – be afraid.

Gezza

I didn’t name call. I told you you had no idea what you are talking about.
Get your step daughter to watch that video. Then get her to get someone else to post here – not you – what she thought of it here anonymously.

Brown

Mike King became disillusioned with the bureaucracy early on so don’t go looking to the academics for answers. The key point is, in my view, we are seeing kids who are unable to cope with the real world because they live in a virtual world where nothing bad ever happens and everyone is just, like, so important to everyone else and they are, like, all so connected, like. Part of the issue is welfare, part is the dismissing of fathers as irrelevant, part is the state knowing best, part is dismissing of morals as cute but so old fashioned and part the rush toward post modernism. This has been social policy for years and as we go further liberal it will only get worse.

Pete Kane

I’m never going to cover for anything that negates suicide rates in NZ. I’ve been touched by it sadly.

However, NZ government and agencies are far more able to work towards answers. Also we’re not fudging figures and our coronial stats won’t be influenced by religious imperatives and guidelines like much of the Middle East. That we’re now promoting what a Qatari news agency says seems a little strange, considering the fact ME suicide figures appear negligible in. All stats. The Qatari/ Al-Jaz interest in us seems a tad out of kilter . It’s about time they offered some explanation of the human rights abuses and suicides of ex-pats in their their own country.

“Qatar government admits almost 1,000 fatalities among migrants – Report calls for changes to kafala system that ties workers to their employers, among other reforms.

The report by the international law firm DLA Piper calls for changes to the much-criticised kafala system that ties workers to their employers. It also contains the Qatari government’s own figure on the numbers of migrants who have died on its soil: 964 from Nepal, India and Bangladesh in 2012 and 2013. In all, 246 died from “sudden cardiac death” in 2012, the report said, 35 died in falls and 28 committed suicide. The number of deaths resulting from work-related injuries was low.

But the real purpose of the 135-page report, commissioned in the wake of Guardian revelations about appalling working conditions in Qatar, was to make recommendations for reform. The document was welcomed by human rights campaigners as a major step forward, particularly given early fears that DLA Piper’s independence could be compromised by its work for Qatar-owned news network al-Jazeera.” ( note last sentence)

But they also warned that its recommendations must be followed by action to a clear timetable and were disheartened that little reference was made to the report in Wednesday’s announcement.”

Gezza

Gezza

Kevin

interestingly, suicide rates in 20-25 year old males drops in a mild statistical link in US States with MedCan Dispensaries, seems sad young blokes are more likely to make a noose after a bottle of Jack Daniels than a spliff. Drugs is a symptom, not the cause, saw an article recently saying the worst thing for mental health is “adverse childhood experiences”.

PDB

Zedd

I watched ‘The Stream’ (Al Jz) last evening; the media talkshow, this info. is from

It sounds like ‘NZs dirty little secret’ that is being totally covered up, but has now been splashed on the world news !

Mike King said that ‘Schools are instructed, to avoid the issue & not discuss it, even though the students are all aware of it’

They also had Ms Genter from the Greens (on a video post) saying this Govt. are not doing enough. It is being ‘brushed under the carpet’ & funds to public health (regardless of Natz B-S) are being cut back.. time for an open. honest debate to resolve it

I hear Kevin comment; ‘DRUGS’ but its not that this is the cause, but that they are likely being over used by people who already have developed mental problems : amongst HIGHEST rates for both issues, in world !!

Zedd

Dr Clark said the ‘She’ll be right’ attitude has created a ‘lonely man’ syndrome, where mental problems are not addressed & are often being ‘bottled up’ & not discussed by most kiwis. It maybe available on some obscure website.. BUT its not in the mainstream

Gezza

Gezza

Gezza

What are the Greens doing specifically? Are they at the coal face? If they spent a fraction of the time they spend politicking in opposition in constructive cognitive community based welfare I’d respect them.

Zedd

as I said before.. keep voting Natz & everything will be just fine (NOT)
they have just created a fantasy-land scenario, where ALL kiwis are apparently doing just fine & theres ‘nothing to see here !’
“DREAM ON” 😦

Homelessness & unemployment rising & Health, education costs are being cute, so they can give tax-cuts to their rich mates, who voted for them !
“Welcome to the REAL NZ folks”

Zedd

The Greens zedd, after decades of MMP cannot even work their way into government. They’re impotent and becoming more irrelevant as time goes on. Reality is they do nothing about teen suicide and their spineless, airy-fairy political idealism means they never will.

Gezza

Made worse for some kids by the long-standing underlying culture here, & the wrong type of parent, & others, who actively continually undo any work done to bring the kids to a sense of self-worth & value.

Alan Wilkinson

Gezza

You can help those kids who need to build confidence & self-esteem, Alan. I reckon you probably can. But no two people are alike. There is no other you. Your kids sound well-balanced, well grounded, you & your Mrs gave them values, guidance, sanctions, rewards, all appropriate. Daughter gave you the “what the hell?” as a teen but turned out great. But they’re not you. They have their own individual complex personalities but you can read them.

The ones who don’t just need self esteem building, sanctions etc – the ones who out of the blue just suddenly kill themselves. They’re different. They look like all the others. Hell they’re often the brightest & smartest. They often have caring parents or at least one. They sometimes do all the ‘right’ things for the kid. And then the kid goes & does that! They need different handling. Not mollycoddling, but they need different handling. They’re hard to spot. You have to observe a lot of their work & behaviour. But I can spot them.

Alan Wilkinson

Gezza

Gezza

It’s why Mike King is so utterly frustrated. He can spot them. The ones to observe closely & focus on. The high risk ones. GP’s miss them. Teachers miss them. To know how to spot these ones you talk to Mike King, not John Kirwan.

Gezza

Alan Wilkinson

Gezza

Friends. Family. Neighbourhood kids if I get to know them. I like kids Al. I talk to them. I’ve talked to survivors as young adults. They talk to me. There are common characteristics. I’m talking to one family member at the moment. 4 kids. Husband died a few months ago. One of the boys really worries her. And nobody’s looking after her.

MaureenW

Gezza

There’s several things Maureen. They’re bright. They get praised. They get frustrated easily. They know the gold star they got for their project is worthless. They know it was shit. They know Johny’s was brilliant. They’re talented. But its not in something they really want. They can’t figure out why Johny can do that & they can’t. They’re complicated. They have little obsessions they never talk about – not to dad, and not even to mum. There’s a lot of stuff. It’s fixable, but it takes time. I reckon you can spot them early. When they hit their teens & the hormones kick in & they get moody & all the usual stuff you don’t notice how intense all that stuff going on in their heads gets.

Gezza

Alan Wilkinson

We used to play a “game” with our kids where everyone would get to say the three worst things about everyone else followed by the three best things. Cleared a lot of air. It also dispelled the notion anyone was perfect or had to be.

Alan Wilkinson

Gezza

I got 92% in maths once, in std 4. Sister Annette, the Principal, a stern crone in a black habit with Blue piping suddenly says when she’s finished marking the end of year exam papers “Gezza B, what do you think you got in maths?”. Oh shit, I thought. Numbers never dance for me. Um, 50%’ sister? More than that. Um, 60%’ sister? More than that. 70%? More than that. (This is nuts, Has she got the wrong paper?) 80%?. More than that! (She’s gotta be talking about the wrong paper…) 90%, sister? A bit more than that. 95%?. “Not quite. You got 92%. Well done – you came first in class in maths!” (Why didn’t I get 95%!)

Alan Wilkinson

Gezza

Conspiratoor

G, i submit for your viewing pleasure one of the most beautiful yet provocative equations known to man

1 = 0.999999999….

This simple equation, which states that the quantity 0.999, followed by an infinite string of nines, is equivalent to one. Many people don’t believe it could be true. It’s also beautifully balanced. The left side represents the beginning of mathematics; the right side represents the mysteries of infinity. Steven strogatz

Gezza

phantom snowflake

Here’s a possible explanation for one large group of our nation’s suicides, oversimplified to keep it brief: We physically, psychologically and sexually abuse large numbers of our children. We teach our boys that above all they must be masculine and manly, and we prohibit them from processing their trauma and abuse because this would involve dealing with feelings which we have labelled as girly or feminine. Although abused males are thus put in a near-impossible position, there is, however, an “out”. We have decreed that anger is manly and masculine. So, we shouldn’t be surprised that abused males may explode outwardly in anger (e.g. assaults and rapes) or act angrily against themselves. (self-harm or suicide) Yeah I know this isn’t the whole story. I said it was oversimplified…

PDB

I think you are on the wrong track – it’s more to do with today’s society disempowering males, males failing our schooling system & feeling lost and not catered for, and the father being seen as unnecessary to the family unit of which the courts/society is equally to blame as those fathers who take no responsibility for their actions.

Alan Wilkinson

Whatever the broad picture factors are, I would expect in individual cases it is far more personal: to do with status within the family, peers or relationships – especially relating to sexual partners as they mature.

patupaiarehe

Some interesting comments above. What really needs to be examined, IMHO, is what ‘trips the switch’. Self preservation is a natural human instinct. The ‘fight or flight’ response, is evidence of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response
Some people grow up in terrible circumstances, but don’t kill themselves. Some people grow up in wealthy families, and do…
Having been on the ‘edge of a cliff’ myself, quite literally, allow me to explain the problems with the status quo.
Society at large, regards mental illness as a sign of weakness. I would never dare admit to anyone I work with, that I take anti-depressant medication. Which is silly really, because the odds are, that at least one of them is taking them too. He most likely feels as ashamed of it as I do.
The hardest thing I have ever had to do, was go to my GP, and ask for help. And I left it way too long, before doing so. Because I didn’t want to appear weak. The man of the house is supposed to be strong. When terrible things happen, he is supposed to be the one who keeps calm, deals with them decisively, and is unaffected by them. Well that’s what I was brought up believing, anyway.
The reality is far different. Every time that ‘shit happens’, it affects you. And it accumulates inside you, if you don’t deal with it. Not dealing with it numbs you, and the number you get, the easier it becomes to not deal with it. Until you have so much accumulated inside you, that the numbness suddenly turns into something else…
My GP’s reaction to being confronted by a supposedly ‘hard bugger’, who had tears streaming down his face, was to prescribe antidepressants. He said that counselling would be equally helpful, but I would have to pay for it. And with the number of dependents that I have, I couldn’t afford it. The first one had little effect, for the six months I was taking it, so I stopped taking it. And then all hell broke loose! Having never experienced a ‘panic attack’ before, I suddenly found myself with a permanent ‘lump in my throat’, anticipating that something terrible was about to happen. After going back to my GP, and getting a bit of a ‘telling off’ for not taking my medication, he told me how to ‘wean myself’ off of it. Once I was off it, he prescribed me something else. The results were nothing short of terrifying. After taking it for one day, I woke up in the middle of the night, and heard ‘voices’. Not in my head, but outside the house. There was no-one there, sensor lights don’t lie.
So I was prescribed a third, far stronger one. And also got counseling, because by now my GP was seriously concerned. This pill was different, the first week on it, I spent wandering about feeling half stoned. Felt like I had taken one puff on a spliff, but I felt like that all day. And I yawned a lot.
I felt a bit silly the first time I met my counselor. “Hey there stranger, I’m going to tell you my problems”, isn’t really much of a conversation starter! But there is something incredibly liberating about discussing ones issues, with someone who doesn’t know anyone you know, and who is bound to secrecy.

Alan Wilkinson

Gezza

Alan Wilkinson

Glad you found your solution, patu. It’s. different for everyone but talking is part of it. Three of my close family have suffered panic attacks and they are no fun. Some deal with them more easily than others. Drugs are a tool but can backfire. There are some interesting alternative therapies for trauma victims now. Have you read “The Body Keeps the Score”? Well worth it.

patupaiarehe

I can’t fault that recipe Alan. I’m a big fan of hugs myself (but not from you, so don’t get any ideas 😉 😀 )
Music is something that works for me. They say it’s the universal language, and I don’t think anyone could listen to the song below, and not feel uplifted by it.
Mike King is right. If we want to fix this problem, we need to listen to the kids. But first we need to help them to talk. To be brave….

You can be amazing
You can turn a phrase into
A weapon or a drug
You can be the outcast
Or be the backlash
Of somebody’s lack of love
Or you can start speaking up

Nothing’s gonna hurt you
The way that words do
When they settle ‘neath your skin
Kept on the inside
No sunlight
Sometimes a shadow wins
But I wonder what would happen if you

Say
What you want to say
And let the words fall out
Honestly
I wanna see you be brave
With what you want to say
And let the words fall out
Honestly
I wanna see you be brave

I just wanna see you
I just wanna see you
I just wanna see you
I wanna see you be brave

Everybody’s been there
Everybody’s been stared down
By the enemy
Fallen for the fear
And done some disappearing
Bowed down to the mighty
Don’t run
Stop holding your tongue

Maybe there’s a way out
Of the cage where you live
Maybe one of these days
You can let the light in
Show me
How big your brave is

Say
What you want to say
And let the words fall out
Honestly
I wanna see you be brave
With what you want to say
And let the words fall out
Honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Innocence your history of silence
Won’t do you any good
Did you think it would?
Let your words be anything but empty
Why don’t you tell them the truth?

Say
What you want to say
And let the words fall out
Honestly
I wanna see you be brave
With what you want to say
And let the words fall out
Honestly
I wanna see you be brave

I just wanna see you
I just wanna see you
I just wanna see you
I wanna see you be brave

phantom snowflake

Awesome. A great example to those who are really struggling but have yet to make the great leap of seeking help, and written in a way that is easily relatable. Despite few comments, this will have been read by many, and you will never know what ripples you have sent out. Keep on keeping it real!

patupaiarehe

Thanks. You’re ‘picking up what I’m putting down, & why’. I only consider myself a great example, of how not to do things 😀 . I hope the ‘ripples’ spread to someone, who is where I was two years ago, right now. My message to that guy/girl, would be that you aren’t alone. What you see others posting on Facebook isn’t their normal, it’s the stage managed highlights of their life. Behind closed doors, everyone suffers from some sort of insecurity. But no-one dares to admit it publicly.
If one person reads what I have have written, and then reconsiders what they might be about to do, I have succeeded. As have they. I look forward to hearing their story…

patupaiarehe

Thank you all for your kind remarks. While medication does have it’s place, I don’t think it should be the default option for dealing with depression. A drug that works for one person, can make another feel much worse, and the only way to find out one’s reaction, is to try it… Personally, I have found counseling far more helpful.

patupaiarehe

Did someone turn the lights out
Or is it just another dark cloud in my head?
‘Cause I’m cut deep, my heart won’t beat
Deep down low it’s killing me
If I wanna scratch out yesterday
I’ve got so much I need to say
(I’ve got so much I need to say)

I think I need help
‘Cause I’m drowning in myself
It’s sinking in, I can’t pretend
That I ain’t been through hell
I think I need help
I’m drowning in myself

They’re preying on my weakness, believe it
I’m thinking to myself “No, not again”
And I won’t keep listening
When temptations creeping in
If I wanna make it another day
I’ve got so much I need to say
(I’ve got so much I need to say)

Gezza

It’s often a combination & it’s a lifetime’s work patu. Sometimes it’s the genes plus the environment. It’s important for people to know about it because you don’t know who it could happen to. But when it happens, it’s like losing your spouse, or, I imagine, a child. What happens to you can only truly be understood when you experience it directly yourself, or see it happen to someone you are extremely close to. People who go through the sort of challenges anxiety & depression conditions cause, & who come out of it ok – & go on to thrive – those people are the really strong people amongst us. Because they’ve had to start from further back than everyone else. And they make it.

patupaiarehe

Don’t know about you G, but those stinky thumbs are getting me a little excited. An erstwhile employer of mine once opined, “If you can annoy one person, whilst going about your normal daily business, it has been a good day”. I’m quite chuffed with my two downticks. As should you be. Give yourself a pat on the back, e hoa… 😀

Gezza

Gezza

Actually I thought about my last line above after I posted it & if I could’ve edited it, I would have. It’s not people who encounter this condition start from further back. They don’t. It’s that they suddenly find they’ve got more hurdles to get over.

patupaiarehe

patupaiarehe

I never thought I’d die alone
I laughed the loudest, who’d have known?
I traced the cord back to the wall
No wonder, it was never plugged in at all
I took my time, I hurried up
The choice was mine, I didn’t think enough
I’m too depressed to go on
You’ll be sorry when I’m gone

I never conquered, rarely came
Sixteen just held such better days
Days when I still felt alive
We couldn’t wait to get outside
The world was wide, too late to try
The tour was over, we’d survived
I couldn’t wait till I got home
To pass the time in my room alone

I never thought I’d die alone
Another six months, I’ll be unknown
Give all my things to all my friends
You’ll never step foot in my room again
You’ll close it off, board it up
Remember the time that I spilled the cup
Of apple juice in the hall
Please tell mom, this is not her fault

I never conquered, rarely came
Sixteen just held such better days
Days when I still felt alive
We couldn’t wait to get outside
The world was wide, too late to try
The tour was over, we’d survived
I couldn’t wait till I got home
To pass the time in my room alone

I never conquered, rarely came
Tomorrow holds such better days
Days when I can still feel alive
When I can’t wait to get outside
The world is wide, the time goes by
The tour is over, I’d survived
I can’t wait till I get home
To pass the time in my room alone