And, of course, ordinary Europeans know, and are drawing conclusions. Listen to this sound clip. It’s a caller to a British radio show hosted by Nigel Farage, the Trumpish former leader of Britain’s national-conservative UKIP party. If the caller’s accent sounds vaguely familiar, it’s because he’s from Liverpool, so he talks like a Beatle. That’s “B-e-a” Beatle: “B-double-e” beetles don’t talk:

Well, I went to a mosque in Liverpool. People have been talking about trying to understand Islam, to try and get a grasp of what Islam’s all about. And the Imam, who was standing in front of the congregation, he said: “Allah has given us this country, and every knee will bow at the name of Allah.”

Islam is a takeover movement. It wants … All it believes, that Allah has given them this country. They’re just taking over. We’ll have one choice: Either convert or go. We will be pushed aside.

Now, why are we allowing this to happen? This is colonization. This is takeover. Why have our elite allowed this over the generations?

The Muslim population is exploding in this country. In 1971 there was just 70,000 Muslims. Nobody knows how many there are now. There may be as many as seven million. We know there are 2,000 mosques in Britain now. When the Queen came on the throne there was only one.

Islam is exploding in this country. Its democracy [sic—he means “demography”] is increasing dramatically, and we’re under serious threat. People have got to wake up to this problem. We’ve got to do something about it.

Do we let Islam simply take over? No, we have to stop immigration, yes, but their birthrate is exploding as well—they’re filling up the maternity hospitals.

We’re going to reach the point where we’re going to have to say to the Muslims: “It’s time to go home. Go back to the Dar al-Islam. You don’t belong in the West. You’ve nothing to contribute here. Those who have integrated can stay; but if you want to remain in your way of life, which is anathema to the West and is totally against our culture, you must go.”

Nigel Farage was left somewhat aghast at that. “That’s strong stuff,” he mumbled.

OK, I’m not going to go all Brit-centric on you. That’s not my country any more, and I watch what is happening over there with a calm, detached despair.

I am going to say, though, that this little exchange captures the zeitgeist in the modern West rather neatly, and the direction the zeitgeist is headed. To put it bluntly, it’s headed from Nigel Farage’s position to the caller’s.

Farage is a decent sort, and he’s done real service to his country, and to the West at large, by putting a cheerful, likeable, moderate face on national conservatism. That hasn’t stopped the CultMarx screamers telling us that he’s Literally Hitler, of course. But the bar for being Literally Hitler is now so low that if you like your country, and would prefer it not be swamped with foreigners, then you too are Literally Hitler.

The zeitgeist is, though, moving in a certain direction, and I believe it will leave Farage behind. Earlier in that radio program he’d told listeners he couldn’t agree with President Trump’s executive order suspending entry to the U.S.A. for citizens of seven exceptionally disorderly Muslim nations.

The public in Europe is headed away from that mild, tolerant position to something closer to the caller’s. Farage, and European politicians of similar views, and possibly our own President, are transitional figures—place-holders, until someone more frankly and unapologetically nationalist comes along.

A very respectable British think tank, the Royal Institute for International Affairs, carried out a big survey between mid-December and mid-January, covering ten European countries, with at least one thousand respondents in each country, total more than ten thousand.

To the statement, “All further migration from mainly Muslim countries should be stopped,” overall 55 percent of Europeans said they agreed.

In Nigel Farage’s Britain the figure was 47 percent.

Given that some unknown proportion of the survey’s respondents must themselves have been Muslims, it would be interesting to see the survey re-done with respondents drawn only from the legacy populations. I’m betting you’d get over half of legacy British people—I mean, white non-Muslims—agreeing.

And I’ll further bet that ten years from now, that half will be three-quarters.

And note that the statement they were responding to in that survey doesn’t restrict itself to seriously dysfunctional places like Somalia and Iraq. It covers all “mainly Muslim countries,” of which there are at least 48.

The survey reveals the usual differences between groups of respondents: city-country, young-old, more or less educated. Younger, more educated, more urban people show less agreement.

There are some suggestive counter-currents moving there, too, though. Here’s a poll out of France, taken at the end of January, on support for the candidates in the upcoming presidential election there. It shows support for national-conservative candidate Marine Le Pen at its strongest in the 18-24 age group: 35 percent in that group, falling to just 16 percent in the 65-and-overs.

If Ms. Le Pen comes first in the April vote, it won’t be geezers who put her there, it’ll be millennials.

I said the zeitgeist is moving in the nationalist direction, but it has a way to go yet. If Le Pen does place first in April, she’ll likely get swamped in the run-off vote in May, when voters for the other four candidates consolidate against her.

ORDER IT NOW

Dutch nationalist Geert Wilders is also looking strong for the election in his country next month; but not as strong as Ms. Le Pen in hers, and like her he faces opposition parties that will unite to keep him out of power. [Netherlands’ Wilders not riding Trump’s coattails, By Nick Ottens Leiden, EuOpinon, February 17, 2017]

So there is major support over there for demographic stability and national conservatism, but not likely major enough to be decisive this year, for all Mr. Wilders’ happy talk about a “patriotic spring.” The wheel probably needs to turn a while longer before we see major electoral victories.

It’s turning, though. Five years ago Le Pen, Wilders, and Farage were written off as extremist fringe candidates. The Brexit vote last June and Donald Trump’s victory in November showed how much things have changed.

And just as here, public discussion about the National Question is all constrained in the narrow, dishonest vocabulary of “hate,” “racism,” and the rest. We have to work at changing that.

A person who opposes mass Muslim immigration may indeed hate Islam. I think Geert Wilders does. A great many other people, though—including this one—don’t mind Islam at all, and wish nothing but long life and happiness to Muslims in Muslim countries everywhere. They’re entitled to live under their own laws and practice their own religion just as much as we are.

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It’s strange to be more pessimistic than John (“We are Doomed”) Derbyshire. But you can’t forget politicians–they’re still running things. And the demographic changes mentioned by the caller to Nigel Farage are all too real. Even if all further immigration were shut off this afternoon, countries like the U.K., France, Germany and Sweden (and others) would face a large number of totally unassimlable, genetically-different, culturally hostile Arabs, Africans, Turks, and South Asians. I see three options: (1) Europeans go full Ragnar Redbeard/Sven Battleaxe on these people and forcibly expel them (possible if the political will to shut off immigration has been summoned); (2) countries are partitioned into Christian and Muslim portions (also possible if immigration has been shut off); or (3) the Europeans gradually disappear into miscegenated “soup” and the nominally Christian people negotiate their dhimmi status with their Muslim overlords from a position of weakness.

If you are going to go full Ragnar... Why spare any of them, so they may go elsewhere to revenge upon thee; Partition... Why would you give up any part of the realm of Henry VIII to complete strangers as you put it; Europeans no more... at that point you would be Muslims and would rise to the top to rule over the ones who forced you (that would teach them to a lesson or two about going after the wrong people)!

Unless the White, Christian, native-born populations of Europe, the Americas and Australia-New Zealand deserve to go extinct for purely biological reasons (1) is ultimately the only conceivable course of action. And the longer we, or rather our chosen leaders, delay implementing this internal Crusade to rid ourselves of these vermin the bloodier and more genocidal - on both sides - will be the resulting civil war.

Believe it or not but the Swedish problems is less about devout muslims and more about people trying hard to be Scarface. The muslim groups that were common until recently were Iranians, Kurds, Bosnians and Albanians. They weren't always perfectly integrated but they also weren't that good muslims either. Apart from a few maniacs most anti-immigration Swedes are mostly against the idea of a multicultural society. We don't particularly like the Christian Arabs and Assyrians either...

There's also the fact that until recently it was impossible to talk about this. The tide is turning fast in my country and it's visible to everyone. This is why MSM and some politicians are doubling down on their efforts. There are pockets of lunatics running towns and parts of government but it mostly looks like there will be much more pragmatism going forward.

If not today then after next election which is next year. First on the list to fix is the police and the incompetent police commissioner.

In America you’d have gotten high AGREE numbers with an honest poll even years ago – AGREE meaning “all further moslem immigration should be stopped”. Even in Europe I doubt any country’s “people” ever wholeheartedly wanted moslem immigration, they just like to show a lot of “tolerance”.

However, what “the people” want and what happens are two different things. This is why the conservatives, including especially the immigration patriots here and VDare, Takimag, etc. ought not to rule out Libertarians as allies. Don’t blow them off as kooks, unless they write for Reason magazine or govern the state of New Mexico (those ones are truly kooks). I’m referring to the Constitutionalist types and general American Patriots.

Let me put it succinctly – if you don’t care about big government, you have no right to complain if your the government doesn’t care anymore what “the people” want and does whatever the Deep State, donors, bureaucrats and Big Business want. This is true for the immigration disaster as well as anything else. Right now, about all national governments around the world are out of control – our Feral Gov’t is an egregious example, and it needs to be cut down to size before anything good can be guaranteed to happen. Who do you want in charge?

Libertarians can mouth a few useful ideas but sooner than later three things will happen:

1. They will play their traditional role as spoiler in the election and hand the winning margin to the left;

2. They'll slobber over open borders and pot legalization; and

3. The guy wearing the jock strap will get up on the stage and dance.

I can't think of a more useless bunch to make into our blood brothers.

White working people and patriotic, aware people of any ethnicity who are not stupid are key, but mainly whites. We were 90% of the population and we need to fight back against those who say whites are illegitimate, just as the minorities and ultra left are saying about Trump. We're"privileged"? In our own country?

Foreigners don't belong in this country, especially Muslims. Illegals are deportable regardless if they've spent 30 years or three months here.

This is strong stuff that will make the decent and amazing Mr. Farage blench. God bless him but he did his best to distance himself from Le Pen. He's basically useless in the fight against Western elite betrayal. He just can't go beyond his magnificent first step.

Just like HRH Elizabeth is useless. She's seen her people betrayed and not uttered one word. Not one blinking word. At least she's had the decency to hang on as long as possible to keep her simpleton son from taking over.

Even that great caller to Farage's show didn't go far enough. He still thinks those who've "integrated" can stay. The ONLY "Asians" who have any claim to our sympathies are the Sikhs, the Hindus, and legal Hispanics who came with visas. Amnesties need to be undone as regretful stupidity on our part.

Bottom line: we need to have an end to the slobbering and mewling over foreigners.

I have a nutty theory to offer premised upon Israelis having a disproportionate influence on the immigration debate among my people. Why would Jews defend mass immigration to the West? Because they know that eventually driving the immigrants back out will be normal. When it’s normal in France, Germany and England, Israel will exploit that new normal by eradicating their neighbors. Everybody will be doing it!

Fuck off with your anti Semitic thinking. That comes from Islam, and it's a terrible worldview that shuts down critical thinking and replaces it with its Jews fault. Tldr: anti-Semitic = Islam supporter

Exactly. Limited nationalism of Europeans is tolerate only as long as it puts Israel's interest first. Islamophobia under the guidance of Israel. Breivik represents this position. Marine Le Pen understood it and made up with Zionist unlike her father. However diaspora Jews see it differently. If Muslims can be driven out can Jews be next? This is Barbara Specter's angle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ

This is really an intra-Jewish problem and Europeans like rest of the world, including Muslims, are caught in the problem created by them. They created it and now they are offering the solution but at the price.

I have thought this for some time. Turn the entire world into a mirror image of Israel, exhaust the entire world's patience with the religion of peace, then go medieval on them to the general indifference of everyone.

I have a nutty theory to offer premised upon Israelis having a disproportionate influence on the immigration debate among my people. Why would Jews defend mass immigration to the West? Because they know that eventually driving the immigrants back out will be normal. When it's normal in France, Germany and England, Israel will exploit that new normal by eradicating their neighbors. Everybody will be doing it!

I know it's wacky but it's a theory.

Fuck off with your anti Semitic thinking. That comes from Islam, and it’s a terrible worldview that shuts down critical thinking and replaces it with its Jews fault. Tldr: anti-Semitic = Islam supporter

I don't agree with either of you guys. David, I don't get the last part of that (admittedly wacky) theory. How would a policy of Europeans kicking out the Mosloids help Israel? Do you mean all out war in Europe that Israel would use as a distraction to do their own destruction? Your idea needs some "fleshing out" as those in the biz say.

Basedagnostic, whatever David said didn't "shut down critical thinking"! What kind of stupid crap is that to say, no matter what one's political views?

When the Spaniards were driven north by the Moros, and they started the 700 yrs Reconquista, the lands on the frontiers between Christians and Moors laid empty, so they would encourage the population to go to there with land grants, tax exemptions and other incentives. They let people out of prison if they settled there. Eventually a fortress would be built. But they did it, the last, greatest, crusade. And yes, they did have an embedded jewish elite.

It is a truism of political science that you cannot hold a territory without population. That is what’s happening in Europe.

How many kids per head among the Unz readership? And if you have children, are you willing to encourage them, by persuasion, time and money, to marry and have kids? To know and love their country?

Otherwise, it’s about the collective suicide of the greatest civilization to date.

I suppose that you speak of the Moors in the Al-Andalus period, that is well-documented, although the Jewish servants of the Moors weren't quite the elite, tax collectors, at times regional governors to persecute the Christian populations, they are said to have been quite enthusiastic about the Moorish invasion in general at the time, obligingly opening city gates and all.

I don’t think Derb really gets what this is about, as signified by the first irruption: Brexit was nothing to do with Muslims.

Wikipedia: Dewey begins his argument by distinguishing between the “state,” represented by elected lawmakers, and the “public,” the diffuse, often incoherent body of citizens who elect the state. The public is called into being when ordinary citizens experience the negative externalities (or consequences) of exchanges beyond their control (such as market or governmental activities). A public then is made up of citizens whose common interest is focused on alleviating these negative externalities through legislation; in fact, Dewey argues that a public does not actually exist until a negative externality calls it into being. Dewey asserts that this occurs when people perceive how consequences of indirect actions affect them collectively: “Indirect, extensive, enduring and serious consequences of conjoint and interacting behavior call a public into existence having a common interest in controlling these consequences”. Hence, a public only develops when it has a reason and comes together around an issue of substantial or serious significance

“The new public which is generated remains long inchoate, unorganized, because it cannot use the inherited political agencies. The latter, if elaborate and well instituted, obstruct the organization of the new public. They prevent that development of new forms of the state which might grown up rapidly were social life more fluid, less precipitated into set political and legal moulds … The public which generated political forms is passing away, but the power and lust of possession remains in the hands of the officers and agencies which the dying public instituted. That is why the change of the form of states is so often effected only by revolution…”(Dewey, 1927)

There are far more people in the UK than the government knows or wants to know, and this excess has much to do with EC associated immigration (including Ukrainians). I happen to come into contact with immigrants setting up home in the my part of the world, which is run down and where jobs are scarce, and from the continuing flow I can only conclude the EC migrants are still flooding in to every corner of the UK. Which is what all the politicians have been trained to support

Many Labour MPs who want to stay in the single market also want to ditch freedom of movement for EU migrant workers.

They think that attacking migrants can help them to win back support in constituencies such as Stoke-on-Trent Central and Copeland—where they fear losing out in the by-elections scheduled for 23 February.

Labour’s shadow Brexit minister Keir Starmer spoke at a meeting of Labour members in Islington, north London, last month.

He is said to have described Labour’s position as access to the single market “plus immigration limits”.

Fuck off with your anti Semitic thinking. That comes from Islam, and it's a terrible worldview that shuts down critical thinking and replaces it with its Jews fault. Tldr: anti-Semitic = Islam supporter

I don’t agree with either of you guys. David, I don’t get the last part of that (admittedly wacky) theory. How would a policy of Europeans kicking out the Mosloids help Israel? Do you mean all out war in Europe that Israel would use as a distraction to do their own destruction? Your idea needs some “fleshing out” as those in the biz say.

Basedagnostic, whatever David said didn’t “shut down critical thinking”! What kind of stupid crap is that to say, no matter what one’s political views?

If you couldn't tell David developed his theory that this is somehow all the Jews fault through a rather convoluted conspiracy theory. The reason that people make things like this up are because they are anti Semitic, which means they blame everything on Jews. This form of belief is mainly practiced by muslims who hate Jews with a passion. It leads to to a lack of critical thought because you will always find a way to blame all problems on the Jews. Stop supporting Islam by supporting anti semitism.

It's strange to be more pessimistic than John ("We are Doomed") Derbyshire. But you can't forget politicians--they're still running things. And the demographic changes mentioned by the caller to Nigel Farage are all too real. Even if all further immigration were shut off this afternoon, countries like the U.K., France, Germany and Sweden (and others) would face a large number of totally unassimlable, genetically-different, culturally hostile Arabs, Africans, Turks, and South Asians. I see three options: (1) Europeans go full Ragnar Redbeard/Sven Battleaxe on these people and forcibly expel them (possible if the political will to shut off immigration has been summoned); (2) countries are partitioned into Christian and Muslim portions (also possible if immigration has been shut off); or (3) the Europeans gradually disappear into miscegenated "soup" and the nominally Christian people negotiate their dhimmi status with their Muslim overlords from a position of weakness.

If you are going to go full Ragnar… Why spare any of them, so they may go elsewhere to revenge upon thee; Partition… Why would you give up any part of the realm of Henry VIII to complete strangers as you put it; Europeans no more… at that point you would be Muslims and would rise to the top to rule over the ones who forced you (that would teach them to a lesson or two about going after the wrong people)!

at that point you would be Muslims and would rise to the top to rule over the...

...world possibly. Wow - a resurgent Muslim Europe - I mean like with actual Europeans at its head - what a sight!

I think a collective sigh of relief would go up from the entire Ummah if Muslim Europeans kicked out the Sauds and took control of the Hijaz. Hajj logistics being run by Swiss and German Muslims - makes me giddy just thinking about it!

Take the banner that we've dropped...no problems here! Let the sun arise in the West!

Farge refuses to embrace nationalism. You refuse to embace ethno-nationalism.

By default, nationalism doesn’t work without a nation. I simply don’t believe that “American” means much anymore. Are the Mexican in East LA and theYankee in Maine really members of the same nation? Sure, they’re citizens of the same formal entity called the United States of America, but are they of the same nation?

The African immigrant in Atlanta and the white lady in Minnesota? The Puerto Rican in NYC and the Chinese lady in San Francisco?

I could go on and on, but you get the point. The United States has become an economic zone with a boarding house attached. That’s not much to hang your nationalism hat on.

The country has become too racially, ethnically, culturally and religiously diverse for nationalism to work. Proposition nations don’t last.

I hope that I’m wrong, but history says that I’m right. I may be a harbinger of the future. Fifteen years ago, I was your typical libertarian Republican who generally believed in the stardard line of thought. Now, I’m an ethno-nationalist along the lines of Ramzpaul, i.e. ethno-nationalism is about loving you’re own family not hating others. I’m a fairly normal guy who likely just accidentally got introduced to the HBD/alt-right scene a bit earlier than most, but if I can change my thinking this much, this fast, so can many others.

America is an "ideological" nation, not an ethnic one such as Germany or other European nation-states. As long as one subscribes to what can simplistically call the "protestant work ethic," believes in capitalism and democracy, with an underlying assumption of Christian/European values, one is an American regardless of background. The examples you mention such as the Puerto Rican in NYC or African immigrant in Atlanta are simply not assimilated. 120 years ago one could write a similar post about the Sicilian in NYC, the Pole in the coal PA mine, etc. not being of the same nation. Their great-grandchildren clearly are.

There is no longer the pressure to assimilate and to Americanize newcomers, and there are actually incentives for them NOT to adopt certain values traditionally referred to as "American" - these are real problems. But the problem is not the diversity of the newcomers themselves.

but if I can change my thinking this much, this fast, so can many others.

Yes.

Case in point: I'm Danish and my octogenarian mother, a lifelong liberal, has gone alt-right/etno-nationalist inside five years. She isn't on the internet in any real sense except using it for email and extended access to MSM and I haven't preached to her. Much. But she sees what's happening and she's horrified about what Denmark will look like when her grandchildren grow up.

Mind you, she's still a socialist economically, but she's all onboard with taking Denmark out of the EU and sending home every goddamn Mohammadan in Europe.

Someone wrote upthread that we must woo the liberals and I believe that's right. Socialism can be rolled back relatively easily - just look at the Soviet Union - but demographics can't, except with lots of bloodshed and fascism involved.

The new major fault line in politics won't be socialist/capitalist, it'll be nationalist/globalist, because demographics is more important than economics. Much more important.

God speed our economic collapse. Prosperity and the memory of it has made life with foreigners seem like a win-win proposition. It isn't.

The presence of the Nation of Islam, MS-13, La Raza, MeCHa, dual-citizenship Jews, and CAIR, as well as the appearance of even one news story about the knockout "game," Southside Chicago violence, or Channon Christian and Chris Newsome are indicators of a terminal disease.

Hard times will eliminate the snowflakes and stiffen the resolve of the somnolent. Our Norman Rockwell moment has come and gone.

If you are going to go full Ragnar... Why spare any of them, so they may go elsewhere to revenge upon thee; Partition... Why would you give up any part of the realm of Henry VIII to complete strangers as you put it; Europeans no more... at that point you would be Muslims and would rise to the top to rule over the ones who forced you (that would teach them to a lesson or two about going after the wrong people)!

at that point you would be Muslims and would rise to the top to rule over the…

…world possibly. Wow – a resurgent Muslim Europe – I mean like with actual Europeans at its head – what a sight!

I think a collective sigh of relief would go up from the entire Ummah if Muslim Europeans kicked out the Sauds and took control of the Hijaz. Hajj logistics being run by Swiss and German Muslims – makes me giddy just thinking about it!

Take the banner that we’ve dropped…no problems here! Let the sun arise in the West!

Yes indeed, Jihad is eternal until the whole world is under the banner of Dar Al Islam. Yikes!! That will be one messed up planet! The Sunnis and Shiites will have to fight and kill each other because there will be no infidels around. And not just those crazies but Sufis, Alewites, Ahmadiyya will all get to battle it out into Allah's misbegotten eternity. Maybe the 12th Imam will jump out of his well and join the general mayhem.

Farge refuses to embrace nationalism. You refuse to embace ethno-nationalism.

By default, nationalism doesn't work without a nation. I simply don't believe that "American" means much anymore. Are the Mexican in East LA and theYankee in Maine really members of the same nation? Sure, they're citizens of the same formal entity called the United States of America, but are they of the same nation?

The African immigrant in Atlanta and the white lady in Minnesota? The Puerto Rican in NYC and the Chinese lady in San Francisco?

I could go on and on, but you get the point. The United States has become an economic zone with a boarding house attached. That's not much to hang your nationalism hat on.

The country has become too racially, ethnically, culturally and religiously diverse for nationalism to work. Proposition nations don't last.

I hope that I'm wrong, but history says that I'm right. I may be a harbinger of the future. Fifteen years ago, I was your typical libertarian Republican who generally believed in the stardard line of thought. Now, I'm an ethno-nationalist along the lines of Ramzpaul, i.e. ethno-nationalism is about loving you're own family not hating others. I'm a fairly normal guy who likely just accidentally got introduced to the HBD/alt-right scene a bit earlier than most, but if I can change my thinking this much, this fast, so can many others.

Technology changes, but people don't. Multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, multi-religious societies has always failed. Indeed, just one of those attributes generally dooms a society. Put them together, and you are truly and utterly fucked.

>> A great many other people, though—including this one—don’t mind Islam at all…..

You are full of shit, Derb. You hate and fear Islam as much as much as (more than..) anybody else, or the matter would not preoccupy so much of your time and thought. Your assumed diffidence is just your way of signaling your superiority to the rest of us. Get over it. Climb down. The time is getting late. We don’t need faithless foot-draggers.

Not hating or "minding" Islam is like not hating or minding Nazism and Communism. I suggest "the Derb" view Jared Taylor's video on Islam and Muslim immigration. Mohammad is arguably the worst monster in all of history. Hitler's "reign of terror" lasted only 12 years. The totalitarian repression and mass-murders of Lenin and Stalin and Mao lasted "only" a few decades. The uniquely hateful religion founded by "the Prophet" has lasted 14 centuries and will surely conquer and destroy all or most of Europe not by jihadist violence, defeated in the past at Tours and "the gates of Vienna," but by immigration and the fertility of Muslim women.

It doesn't matter if the people of France, Germany, Sweden, Holland, etc. , want to end Muslim immigration. The governing-classes and ruling-elites are evil and insane, as they are in the U.S. and Canada, and thus will never end the invasion of Muslims and other Africans who will ultimately and inexorably turn their countries into Muslim/non-white majority hell-holes.

You are full of shit, Derb. You hate and fear Islam as much as much as (more than..) anybody else, or the matter would not preoccupy so much of your time and thought. Your assumed diffidence is just your way of signaling your superiority to the rest of us. Get over it. Climb down. The time is getting late. We don’t need faithless foot-draggers.

Good call. Derb is sharp enough to be able to read the Koran with googling and a little patience. He's a mathematician, understanding how the Koran works is not exactly solving the Riemann hypothesis, (I googled "difficult mathematical problems", and a bit later by chance I see there is a book by Derbyshire on the subject). Millions of IQ 80-90 people understand the basics of the Koran, I'm sure the Derb has worked it out.

In short there needs to be no living Muslims remaining in our countries. I'm agnostic on how it's done. It's only a shaving of the beard anyway. See the Battle of Lepanto.

I agree with Sailer and Derbyshire in condemnation of the policy of USA
“Invite the World.”
But where is Derbyshire’s second part, “Invade the World” ?
With greatest respect and friendly feelings towards John Derbyshire,
Anonymous.

Farge refuses to embrace nationalism. You refuse to embace ethno-nationalism.

By default, nationalism doesn't work without a nation. I simply don't believe that "American" means much anymore. Are the Mexican in East LA and theYankee in Maine really members of the same nation? Sure, they're citizens of the same formal entity called the United States of America, but are they of the same nation?

The African immigrant in Atlanta and the white lady in Minnesota? The Puerto Rican in NYC and the Chinese lady in San Francisco?

I could go on and on, but you get the point. The United States has become an economic zone with a boarding house attached. That's not much to hang your nationalism hat on.

The country has become too racially, ethnically, culturally and religiously diverse for nationalism to work. Proposition nations don't last.

I hope that I'm wrong, but history says that I'm right. I may be a harbinger of the future. Fifteen years ago, I was your typical libertarian Republican who generally believed in the stardard line of thought. Now, I'm an ethno-nationalist along the lines of Ramzpaul, i.e. ethno-nationalism is about loving you're own family not hating others. I'm a fairly normal guy who likely just accidentally got introduced to the HBD/alt-right scene a bit earlier than most, but if I can change my thinking this much, this fast, so can many others.

We'll see.

America is an “ideological” nation, not an ethnic one such as Germany or other European nation-states. As long as one subscribes to what can simplistically call the “protestant work ethic,” believes in capitalism and democracy, with an underlying assumption of Christian/European values, one is an American regardless of background. The examples you mention such as the Puerto Rican in NYC or African immigrant in Atlanta are simply not assimilated. 120 years ago one could write a similar post about the Sicilian in NYC, the Pole in the coal PA mine, etc. not being of the same nation. Their great-grandchildren clearly are.

There is no longer the pressure to assimilate and to Americanize newcomers, and there are actually incentives for them NOT to adopt certain values traditionally referred to as “American” – these are real problems. But the problem is not the diversity of the newcomers themselves.

So Darwin was wrong? You should let someone know. That's a pretty big breakthrough.

Look, a Chihuahua won't assimilate to become a St. Bernard.

Africans have been in this country for 400 years and can't adapt. Mestizos have had 400 years to act like their Spanish masters and fail generation after generation.

Poles and Italians assimilated - mostly - because they are genetically very similar to NW Europeans. Africans are not. Mestizos are not - though certainly a lot closer than Africans. NE Asians assimilate pretty well because by luck their IQ and temperment is pretty close ot NW Europeans.

This isn't about culture. It's about biology.

You're like the coach who's baffled as to why his basketball team full of Asians keeps losing to the black high school across town year after year.

As long as one subscribes to .... capitalism and democracy, with an underlying assumption of Christian/European values, one is an American regardless of background.

Right, so when I stopped believing in all that bullshit, I stopped being an American. (NOT.)

Actually, I do have to congratulate you. It's amazing how many levels of bullshit you can pack into a single sentence. Believing in "capitalism" and "democracy" is what makes you an American, eh? Well, has it occurred to you that there is no way of knowing whether anybody really believes in these things or not? All you can observe is whether people proclaim that they believe in these things! The person who proclaims his belief may believe or not.

But it even goes beyond that. There are about 320 million Americans and almost none of them, if pressed, could really tell you what "capitalism" even is. So what you are saying is that what makes somebody an American is that they proclaim their belief in some abstraction that they don't even really understand.

Well, all of this is not just garden variety bullshit. It's Olympic champion level stuff, so I must congratulate you.

Wrong, and this is part of the problem. We are not a "proposition" nation that is mainly a bunch of ideas that could be replicated in other places if people had a Constitution and Bill of Rights, etc. We are at our core a European, Anglo-Saxon Christian nation and people. Our nation is unique and could not be replicated elsewhere with an ethnically different group. The notion that everyone could be and wants to be just like the US if only our military blows up enough stuff and kills "the bad guys" is what gets us into the Iraqs, Afghanistans, and Libyas of the world. It never works, but some people keep trying and it gets us nothing but heartache, dead and maimed soldiers, unhappy locals who survive the bombing, and an astronomical price tag and debt.

The problem is almost entirely the "diversity" of the newcomers, if all the immigrants in the past 30 years to US had been European we would have about .01 of the trouble and cost we are having with the third world invasion.

There is a defacto Native Born White American Exclusion Act that is voted for, and implemented, at election time…I believe it to be absolutely urgent to bring back the 1882 Chinese Legal Immigrant Exclusion Act to counter this.

China’s border with India is heavily militarized…and it’s the reason why the Hindu has not been able to colonize Chinese Universities…

Hindu-Sihk India has a 250 thousand man army that patrols the India-Pakistan border...

Then there is Chuck Schumer's precious Israel!!!!

Just a reminder:no muslims on Native Born White Christian American Living and Breeding Space=9/11...0 probability of ever occuring....0 probability of the earlier 1993 attempted knockdown of the TT by a bunch of MUSLIM LEGAL IMMIGRANTS....

There is a defacto Native Born White American Exclusion Act that is voted for, and implemented, at election time...I believe it to be absolutely urgent to bring back the 1882 Chinese Legal Immigrant Exclusion Act to counter this.

China's border with India is heavily militarized...and it's the reason why the Hindu has not been able to colonize Chinese Universities...

Hindu-Sihk India has a 250 thousand man army that patrols the India-Pakistan border…

Then there is Chuck Schumer’s precious Israel!!!!

Just a reminder:no muslims on Native Born White Christian American Living and Breeding Space=9/11…0 probability of ever occuring….0 probability of the earlier 1993 attempted knockdown of the TT by a bunch of MUSLIM LEGAL IMMIGRANTS….

I don't agree with either of you guys. David, I don't get the last part of that (admittedly wacky) theory. How would a policy of Europeans kicking out the Mosloids help Israel? Do you mean all out war in Europe that Israel would use as a distraction to do their own destruction? Your idea needs some "fleshing out" as those in the biz say.

Basedagnostic, whatever David said didn't "shut down critical thinking"! What kind of stupid crap is that to say, no matter what one's political views?

Both of you, on the floor, 50 pushups, and NOT GIRLY STYLE!

If you couldn’t tell David developed his theory that this is somehow all the Jews fault through a rather convoluted conspiracy theory. The reason that people make things like this up are because they are anti Semitic, which means they blame everything on Jews. This form of belief is mainly practiced by muslims who hate Jews with a passion. It leads to to a lack of critical thought because you will always find a way to blame all problems on the Jews. Stop supporting Islam by supporting anti semitism.

shylock opportunist, getting your little anti-semitism bullshit into the convo one way or another, are we??? And such a low opinion of American intelligence lol, are we that stupid?? What you Jewish Zionists have done to this this land as far as treachery is matched by no other..

Technology changes, but people don’t. Multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, multi-religious societies has always failed. Indeed, just one of those attributes generally dooms a society. Put them together, and you are truly and utterly fucked.

America is an "ideological" nation, not an ethnic one such as Germany or other European nation-states. As long as one subscribes to what can simplistically call the "protestant work ethic," believes in capitalism and democracy, with an underlying assumption of Christian/European values, one is an American regardless of background. The examples you mention such as the Puerto Rican in NYC or African immigrant in Atlanta are simply not assimilated. 120 years ago one could write a similar post about the Sicilian in NYC, the Pole in the coal PA mine, etc. not being of the same nation. Their great-grandchildren clearly are.

There is no longer the pressure to assimilate and to Americanize newcomers, and there are actually incentives for them NOT to adopt certain values traditionally referred to as "American" - these are real problems. But the problem is not the diversity of the newcomers themselves.

So Darwin was wrong? You should let someone know. That’s a pretty big breakthrough.

Look, a Chihuahua won’t assimilate to become a St. Bernard.

Africans have been in this country for 400 years and can’t adapt. Mestizos have had 400 years to act like their Spanish masters and fail generation after generation.

Poles and Italians assimilated – mostly – because they are genetically very similar to NW Europeans. Africans are not. Mestizos are not – though certainly a lot closer than Africans. NE Asians assimilate pretty well because by luck their IQ and temperment is pretty close ot NW Europeans.

This isn’t about culture. It’s about biology.

You’re like the coach who’s baffled as to why his basketball team full of Asians keeps losing to the black high school across town year after year.

You seem to equate being an American with being smart or successful, and that certain peoples who collectively lack these traits must therefore be "un-American." Which is false. America might not need these kinds of Americans in large numbers, but this does not mean that people who adopt American values (roughly - capitalism, democracy, Christian worldview) aren't Americans.

One of the funnier scenes I have experienced was when a white South African in New York referred to a woman as a Black American, and she objected by replying that she was an African American, to which the South African (white, mind you) replied, "Give me a break, I'm more african than you."

Farge refuses to embrace nationalism. You refuse to embace ethno-nationalism.

By default, nationalism doesn't work without a nation. I simply don't believe that "American" means much anymore. Are the Mexican in East LA and theYankee in Maine really members of the same nation? Sure, they're citizens of the same formal entity called the United States of America, but are they of the same nation?

The African immigrant in Atlanta and the white lady in Minnesota? The Puerto Rican in NYC and the Chinese lady in San Francisco?

I could go on and on, but you get the point. The United States has become an economic zone with a boarding house attached. That's not much to hang your nationalism hat on.

The country has become too racially, ethnically, culturally and religiously diverse for nationalism to work. Proposition nations don't last.

I hope that I'm wrong, but history says that I'm right. I may be a harbinger of the future. Fifteen years ago, I was your typical libertarian Republican who generally believed in the stardard line of thought. Now, I'm an ethno-nationalist along the lines of Ramzpaul, i.e. ethno-nationalism is about loving you're own family not hating others. I'm a fairly normal guy who likely just accidentally got introduced to the HBD/alt-right scene a bit earlier than most, but if I can change my thinking this much, this fast, so can many others.

We'll see.

The country has become too racially, ethnically, culturally and religiously diverse for nationalism to work. Proposition nations don’t last.

The Roman Empire did eventually fall, of course, but it also did last quite a while.

True, and we likely have a long way to go, though the pace of things coming apart has moved much faster than I ever expected.

Also, unlike most around here, I'm not saying there's going to be some big civil war or something similar, though, I suppose, that's possible. Just a slow decline toward some type of Brazil seems more likely, but what the heck do I know. The world's a funny place.

Regarding Rome, one big difference between them and us is that they retained their belief in their cultural supremacy right to the end. Imagine how much faster the Western Roman Empire would have fallen if they become self-hating in third century. That's where we are. Also, things tend to move a bit quicker theses days than back then.

I guess that I just can't see how a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural and multi-religious society with no dominant culture survives over the long run. It flies in the face of everything we seen throughout history and just doesn't make much sense.

America is an "ideological" nation, not an ethnic one such as Germany or other European nation-states. As long as one subscribes to what can simplistically call the "protestant work ethic," believes in capitalism and democracy, with an underlying assumption of Christian/European values, one is an American regardless of background. The examples you mention such as the Puerto Rican in NYC or African immigrant in Atlanta are simply not assimilated. 120 years ago one could write a similar post about the Sicilian in NYC, the Pole in the coal PA mine, etc. not being of the same nation. Their great-grandchildren clearly are.

There is no longer the pressure to assimilate and to Americanize newcomers, and there are actually incentives for them NOT to adopt certain values traditionally referred to as "American" - these are real problems. But the problem is not the diversity of the newcomers themselves.

As long as one subscribes to …. capitalism and democracy, with an underlying assumption of Christian/European values, one is an American regardless of background.

Right, so when I stopped believing in all that bullshit, I stopped being an American. (NOT.)

Actually, I do have to congratulate you. It’s amazing how many levels of bullshit you can pack into a single sentence. Believing in “capitalism” and “democracy” is what makes you an American, eh? Well, has it occurred to you that there is no way of knowing whether anybody really believes in these things or not? All you can observe is whether people proclaim that they believe in these things! The person who proclaims his belief may believe or not.

But it even goes beyond that. There are about 320 million Americans and almost none of them, if pressed, could really tell you what “capitalism” even is. So what you are saying is that what makes somebody an American is that they proclaim their belief in some abstraction that they don’t even really understand.

Well, all of this is not just garden variety bullshit. It’s Olympic champion level stuff, so I must congratulate you.

Not to mention the founding fathers were totally against democracy. They gave us a republic and constantly warned us about the follies in regards to democracy.

I am with you, though. America hasn't always been an ideological or proposition nation. E pluribus unum was talking about western Europeans just like the phrase "for ourselves and our posterity" never meant the people who had certain beliefs and ideas. At one point in time even the Germans were despised as unwelcome newcomers.

There is a defacto Native Born White American Exclusion Act that is voted for, and implemented, at election time...I believe it to be absolutely urgent to bring back the 1882 Chinese Legal Immigrant Exclusion Act to counter this.

China's border with India is heavily militarized...and it's the reason why the Hindu has not been able to colonize Chinese Universities...

the Hindu has not been able to colonize Chinese Universities…

Charmingly daft. Why would Hindus seek to go to universities where the medium of instruction is Mandarin?

So Darwin was wrong? You should let someone know. That's a pretty big breakthrough.

Look, a Chihuahua won't assimilate to become a St. Bernard.

Africans have been in this country for 400 years and can't adapt. Mestizos have had 400 years to act like their Spanish masters and fail generation after generation.

Poles and Italians assimilated - mostly - because they are genetically very similar to NW Europeans. Africans are not. Mestizos are not - though certainly a lot closer than Africans. NE Asians assimilate pretty well because by luck their IQ and temperment is pretty close ot NW Europeans.

This isn't about culture. It's about biology.

You're like the coach who's baffled as to why his basketball team full of Asians keeps losing to the black high school across town year after year.

What could it be? I just can't figure it out.

You seem to equate being an American with being smart or successful, and that certain peoples who collectively lack these traits must therefore be “un-American.” Which is false. America might not need these kinds of Americans in large numbers, but this does not mean that people who adopt American values (roughly – capitalism, democracy, Christian worldview) aren’t Americans.

Whom do I mail to renounce my status as an American? Although Germany might be a little upset if I was to suddenly become stateless right now (I live in Germany)...

3/4 of my ancestors were living in the North American continent before the USA ever existed and have fought in every war since then. I won't have you cheapen my nationality by defining American as a set of beliefs. Besides, I have already pointed out that all of the founding fathers feared "Democracy" and warned against it, but I suppose you know more than Franklin or Jefferson about what being American means.

As long as one subscribes to .... capitalism and democracy, with an underlying assumption of Christian/European values, one is an American regardless of background.

Right, so when I stopped believing in all that bullshit, I stopped being an American. (NOT.)

Actually, I do have to congratulate you. It's amazing how many levels of bullshit you can pack into a single sentence. Believing in "capitalism" and "democracy" is what makes you an American, eh? Well, has it occurred to you that there is no way of knowing whether anybody really believes in these things or not? All you can observe is whether people proclaim that they believe in these things! The person who proclaims his belief may believe or not.

But it even goes beyond that. There are about 320 million Americans and almost none of them, if pressed, could really tell you what "capitalism" even is. So what you are saying is that what makes somebody an American is that they proclaim their belief in some abstraction that they don't even really understand.

Well, all of this is not just garden variety bullshit. It's Olympic champion level stuff, so I must congratulate you.

105 IQ man who thinks he’s really smart tries to make an argument, and fails. Again.

I won’t even bother addressing the specifics of your post, for the same reason that I don’t bark back when a dog barks at me.

105 IQ man who thinks he’s really smart tries to make an argument, and fails. Again.

Well, you know, in a serious debate, it's not enough to say that the person's argument is invalid. You're supposed to demonstrate that it is. Where is your rebuttal?

I won’t even bother addressing the specifics of your post,

Oh, I see, there is no rebuttal. You could easily write a rebuttal but you just "won't bother". Sure, everybody believes that. You could trounce me in a debate but it's just too easy, so you... uh... won't even bother.

for the same reason that I don’t bark back when a dog barks at me.

Yeah, that's why I don't get into a fight with Mike Tyson, say. I could take him but it would just be too easy, it would be totally beneath me, so I uhh,,, don't bother....

105 IQ man who thinks he's really smart tries to make an argument, and fails. Again.

I won't even bother addressing the specifics of your post, for the same reason that I don't bark back when a dog barks at me.

105 IQ man who thinks he’s really smart tries to make an argument, and fails. Again.

Well, you know, in a serious debate, it’s not enough to say that the person’s argument is invalid. You’re supposed to demonstrate that it is. Where is your rebuttal?

I won’t even bother addressing the specifics of your post,

Oh, I see, there is no rebuttal. You could easily write a rebuttal but you just “won’t bother”. Sure, everybody believes that. You could trounce me in a debate but it’s just too easy, so you… uh… won’t even bother.

for the same reason that I don’t bark back when a dog barks at me.

Yeah, that’s why I don’t get into a fight with Mike Tyson, say. I could take him but it would just be too easy, it would be totally beneath me, so I uhh,,, don’t bother….

I agree with Sailer and Derbyshire in condemnation of the policy of USA
"Invite the World."
But where is Derbyshire's second part, "Invade the World" ?
With greatest respect and friendly feelings towards John Derbyshire,
Anonymous.

He is a plain old British racist who doesn’t realize he is an immigrant into these United States!

If you couldn't tell David developed his theory that this is somehow all the Jews fault through a rather convoluted conspiracy theory. The reason that people make things like this up are because they are anti Semitic, which means they blame everything on Jews. This form of belief is mainly practiced by muslims who hate Jews with a passion. It leads to to a lack of critical thought because you will always find a way to blame all problems on the Jews. Stop supporting Islam by supporting anti semitism.

It IS the Ziofascists’ Jews fault! They love to destabilize wherever they go!

If you couldn't tell David developed his theory that this is somehow all the Jews fault through a rather convoluted conspiracy theory. The reason that people make things like this up are because they are anti Semitic, which means they blame everything on Jews. This form of belief is mainly practiced by muslims who hate Jews with a passion. It leads to to a lack of critical thought because you will always find a way to blame all problems on the Jews. Stop supporting Islam by supporting anti semitism.

You’re not just a putrid hasbarite, you are a sockpuppeteer who appeared under a different name at 3.22 pm. Begone.

It’s turning, though. Five years ago Le Pen, Wilders, and Farage were written off as extremist fringe candidates.

The really shocking and depressing thing is that support for nationalist parties is so low. The polls have Le Pen on 26 percent. That’s dismal. That means 74 percent of French voters will vote for the destruction of their own country. The sad truth is that Wilders and Le Pen are still fringe candidates.

It’s no good making excuses for Europeans. They want to be destroyed. They welcome it.

If Marine weren't so abysmal in all other aspects .... another rich girl who has never had to look at a bad balance sheet, talking big.

She a Big Statist (exactly what France doesn't need) and talks Economic Autarky (exactly what France doesn't need nor won't manage; the Germans tried that in the 30's, you know how that went). No go areas.

That is the essence of the problem. The salvationist parties in Europe struggle mightily for a mere 1% or 2% bump up in the votes. Decades have gone by and NOW that is still the case. Just what you describe.

Faithless elites and sellout media monopolies mean nothing if you encounter just one story of rape, parasitism, or Muslims using swimming pools as latrines. Just one is all an awake person needs.

But millions have been exposed to thousands of such stories and just lost all that makes them humans. They cower before savagery and dispossession and turn on leaders who stand up. Bohica is their watchword.

If you couldn't tell David developed his theory that this is somehow all the Jews fault through a rather convoluted conspiracy theory. The reason that people make things like this up are because they are anti Semitic, which means they blame everything on Jews. This form of belief is mainly practiced by muslims who hate Jews with a passion. It leads to to a lack of critical thought because you will always find a way to blame all problems on the Jews. Stop supporting Islam by supporting anti semitism.

shylock opportunist, getting your little anti-semitism bullshit into the convo one way or another, are we??? And such a low opinion of American intelligence lol, are we that stupid?? What you Jewish Zionists have done to this this land as far as treachery is matched by no other..

I have a nutty theory to offer premised upon Israelis having a disproportionate influence on the immigration debate among my people. Why would Jews defend mass immigration to the West? Because they know that eventually driving the immigrants back out will be normal. When it's normal in France, Germany and England, Israel will exploit that new normal by eradicating their neighbors. Everybody will be doing it!

I know it's wacky but it's a theory.

Exactly. Limited nationalism of Europeans is tolerate only as long as it puts Israel’s interest first. Islamophobia under the guidance of Israel. Breivik represents this position. Marine Le Pen understood it and made up with Zionist unlike her father. However diaspora Jews see it differently. If Muslims can be driven out can Jews be next? This is Barbara Specter’s angle.

This is really an intra-Jewish problem and Europeans like rest of the world, including Muslims, are caught in the problem created by them. They created it and now they are offering the solution but at the price.

As long as one subscribes to .... capitalism and democracy, with an underlying assumption of Christian/European values, one is an American regardless of background.

Right, so when I stopped believing in all that bullshit, I stopped being an American. (NOT.)

Actually, I do have to congratulate you. It's amazing how many levels of bullshit you can pack into a single sentence. Believing in "capitalism" and "democracy" is what makes you an American, eh? Well, has it occurred to you that there is no way of knowing whether anybody really believes in these things or not? All you can observe is whether people proclaim that they believe in these things! The person who proclaims his belief may believe or not.

But it even goes beyond that. There are about 320 million Americans and almost none of them, if pressed, could really tell you what "capitalism" even is. So what you are saying is that what makes somebody an American is that they proclaim their belief in some abstraction that they don't even really understand.

Well, all of this is not just garden variety bullshit. It's Olympic champion level stuff, so I must congratulate you.

(long time reader, but almost never post)

Not to mention the founding fathers were totally against democracy. They gave us a republic and constantly warned us about the follies in regards to democracy.

I am with you, though. America hasn’t always been an ideological or proposition nation. E pluribus unum was talking about western Europeans just like the phrase “for ourselves and our posterity” never meant the people who had certain beliefs and ideas. At one point in time even the Germans were despised as unwelcome newcomers.

The “assimilated Muslim” is cousin to the ‘well socialized negro’. A comforting thought to those who want to believe in this mirror image of their own virtue but do these people really exist anymore than athiests exist in foxholes?

I am reminded of that Egyptian airline pilot who flew his plane into the Atlantic. By all accounts he was thoroughly Westernized, to the point he was being sent back to Egypt for disciplinary reasons because his playboy like lifestyle had upset officials at Egyptian Airlines. Rather than quit the airline he did the ‘Islamic thing’ and, while shrieking Allahu Akbar, put the aircraft into a dive and killed some 250 passengers along with himself!

Ah yes - and we all know that is the 'Islamic thing' to do because a thoroughly Westernized playboy Egyptian did it. (sigh)

Of course, if you have a statement from a mufti from, say, the University of Azhar or Sarhanpur or Selangor, etc. (you know, the guys who make a living trying to figure out the 'Islamic thing' to do) that says the way to handle discipline at the job is to kill oneself and everyone else on a flight packed with Muslims - boy, will I have serious egg on my face (and that sucks, because try to get that stuff out of a beard - let me tell ya).

Logic - the other white meat.

Peace.

Note: Of course, going postal on the job might have been part of his Westernization - it seems it has been such a concern that my company recently had everyone undergo a mandatory 'Insider Threat Training' for potential workplace security and violence risks.

huge number of 3rd world people migrating to a small first world country is never a good idea. zero chance of assimilation. especially when it is all at once.

trump lied deal with it. riots/protests/whatever =/= terrorist attack

think EU/nato will learn not to destroy countries on it’s door step? kakakaka all the terrorist attacks in france/EU, the refugee/migrant waves, are all consequences of EU’s own actions. you don’ shit where you eat.

You seem to equate being an American with being smart or successful, and that certain peoples who collectively lack these traits must therefore be "un-American." Which is false. America might not need these kinds of Americans in large numbers, but this does not mean that people who adopt American values (roughly - capitalism, democracy, Christian worldview) aren't Americans.

Whom do I mail to renounce my status as an American? Although Germany might be a little upset if I was to suddenly become stateless right now (I live in Germany)…

3/4 of my ancestors were living in the North American continent before the USA ever existed and have fought in every war since then. I won’t have you cheapen my nationality by defining American as a set of beliefs. Besides, I have already pointed out that all of the founding fathers feared “Democracy” and warned against it, but I suppose you know more than Franklin or Jefferson about what being American means.

I used Democracy as a rough description. Of course America is a Republic with historical checks and balances on mob rule (something that leftists have eroded over time).

Do you consider yourself to be more of an American than some swarthy guy of Sicilian ancestry who is proud of the USA, believes in the free market, a democratic system of government, has assimilated into a Protestant work ethic, speaks English, etc. (that is, his ancestors adopted the values that your ancestors created) because your family has lived here since the 1700s and his came over 200 years later?

Fuck off with your anti Semitic thinking. That comes from Islam, and it's a terrible worldview that shuts down critical thinking and replaces it with its Jews fault. Tldr: anti-Semitic = Islam supporter

Since you mention shutting down critical thinking, how does the knee jerk use of “anti-Semite” encourage or constitute critical thinking?

Furthermore, anyone capable of critical thinking can easily conclude that Zionism itself is “anti-Semitic’ in several ways.

So Darwin was wrong? You should let someone know. That's a pretty big breakthrough.

Look, a Chihuahua won't assimilate to become a St. Bernard.

Africans have been in this country for 400 years and can't adapt. Mestizos have had 400 years to act like their Spanish masters and fail generation after generation.

Poles and Italians assimilated - mostly - because they are genetically very similar to NW Europeans. Africans are not. Mestizos are not - though certainly a lot closer than Africans. NE Asians assimilate pretty well because by luck their IQ and temperment is pretty close ot NW Europeans.

This isn't about culture. It's about biology.

You're like the coach who's baffled as to why his basketball team full of Asians keeps losing to the black high school across town year after year.

What could it be? I just can't figure it out.

One of the funnier scenes I have experienced was when a white South African in New York referred to a woman as a Black American, and she objected by replying that she was an African American, to which the South African (white, mind you) replied, “Give me a break, I’m more african than you.”

If you couldn't tell David developed his theory that this is somehow all the Jews fault through a rather convoluted conspiracy theory. The reason that people make things like this up are because they are anti Semitic, which means they blame everything on Jews. This form of belief is mainly practiced by muslims who hate Jews with a passion. It leads to to a lack of critical thought because you will always find a way to blame all problems on the Jews. Stop supporting Islam by supporting anti semitism.

Sock puppeting isn’t allowed here prick, I mean basedagnostic.

If you must post your propaganda here, choose one screen name so I can put you on ignore like all the other tiresome bores.

America is an "ideological" nation, not an ethnic one such as Germany or other European nation-states. As long as one subscribes to what can simplistically call the "protestant work ethic," believes in capitalism and democracy, with an underlying assumption of Christian/European values, one is an American regardless of background. The examples you mention such as the Puerto Rican in NYC or African immigrant in Atlanta are simply not assimilated. 120 years ago one could write a similar post about the Sicilian in NYC, the Pole in the coal PA mine, etc. not being of the same nation. Their great-grandchildren clearly are.

There is no longer the pressure to assimilate and to Americanize newcomers, and there are actually incentives for them NOT to adopt certain values traditionally referred to as "American" - these are real problems. But the problem is not the diversity of the newcomers themselves.

Wrong, and this is part of the problem. We are not a “proposition” nation that is mainly a bunch of ideas that could be replicated in other places if people had a Constitution and Bill of Rights, etc. We are at our core a European, Anglo-Saxon Christian nation and people. Our nation is unique and could not be replicated elsewhere with an ethnically different group. The notion that everyone could be and wants to be just like the US if only our military blows up enough stuff and kills “the bad guys” is what gets us into the Iraqs, Afghanistans, and Libyas of the world. It never works, but some people keep trying and it gets us nothing but heartache, dead and maimed soldiers, unhappy locals who survive the bombing, and an astronomical price tag and debt.

The problem is almost entirely the “diversity” of the newcomers, if all the immigrants in the past 30 years to US had been European we would have about .01 of the trouble and cost we are having with the third world invasion.

There is a video of Richard Spencer at a restaurant in DC taking questions from Jeffrey Tuckers's libertarian acolytes. Richard stated UNEQUIVOCABLY that America is a European-raced based Nation. This comment triggered a young South Asian in the restaurant-bar...who proclaimed to Spencer:"America is not a European Nation".....Spencer should have responded:"What if THE HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMETICAN MAJORITY revolts against South Asians comming into America and voting THE HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN MAJORITY into a racial Foriegner within the borders of America?

Go to Richard Spencer's twitter feed for the video of this exchange.

I was hoping Richard Spencer would have mentioned something about the Giant Snakehead Fish from China....introduced by Chinese Legal Immigrants....now prowling the waters of the Potomac River nearby....

Wrong, and this is part of the problem. We are not a “proposition” nation that is mainly a bunch of ideas that could be replicated in other places if people had a Constitution and Bill of Rights, etc

I never claimed it was the simple. Assimilation involves more than just a Constitution and Bill of Rights. It involves adopting the language and culture. Italians did it. Many 4th generation Latinos not living in the zone near the border have done it. In order for this to succeed immigration needs to be limited. But that doesn't mean that someone can't be an American because he is not of purely European descent. America isn't a nation based on ethnicity, it's one based in traditions, ideology and culture.

We are at our core a European, Anglo-Saxon Christian nation and people. Our nation is unique and could not be replicated elsewhere with an ethnically different group

I agree.

The notion that everyone could be and wants to be just like the US if only our military blows up enough stuff and kills “the bad guys” is what gets us into the Iraqs, Afghanistans, and Libyas of the world.

Whom do I mail to renounce my status as an American? Although Germany might be a little upset if I was to suddenly become stateless right now (I live in Germany)...

3/4 of my ancestors were living in the North American continent before the USA ever existed and have fought in every war since then. I won't have you cheapen my nationality by defining American as a set of beliefs. Besides, I have already pointed out that all of the founding fathers feared "Democracy" and warned against it, but I suppose you know more than Franklin or Jefferson about what being American means.

American citizenship... the dollar store of nationalities.

I used Democracy as a rough description. Of course America is a Republic with historical checks and balances on mob rule (something that leftists have eroded over time).

Do you consider yourself to be more of an American than some swarthy guy of Sicilian ancestry who is proud of the USA, believes in the free market, a democratic system of government, has assimilated into a Protestant work ethic, speaks English, etc. (that is, his ancestors adopted the values that your ancestors created) because your family has lived here since the 1700s and his came over 200 years later?

Ah, the old trick. Compare Mexican and Central American illegals to Poles and Italians. Mestizos are just the modern equivalent of Poles and Italians.

You do realize that we have plenty of third and fourth generation Mexicans and Central Americans to test your theory. Oh, what do you know, those Mexicans and Central Americans don't turn into Poles and Italians. They remain what they are, Mexican and Central American Mestizos.

Look, if believing in free markets and democracy make you an "American," why not let in the billions of people who would take that pledge tomorrow to emigrate here? Should we let them all in as fast as possible? If not, why not?

They'll assimilate just like Italians and Poles, right?

You've got to be a Libertarian. Only libertarians can exist in that fantasy world.

Fuck off with your anti Semitic thinking. That comes from Islam, and it's a terrible worldview that shuts down critical thinking and replaces it with its Jews fault. Tldr: anti-Semitic = Islam supporter

It's strange to be more pessimistic than John ("We are Doomed") Derbyshire. But you can't forget politicians--they're still running things. And the demographic changes mentioned by the caller to Nigel Farage are all too real. Even if all further immigration were shut off this afternoon, countries like the U.K., France, Germany and Sweden (and others) would face a large number of totally unassimlable, genetically-different, culturally hostile Arabs, Africans, Turks, and South Asians. I see three options: (1) Europeans go full Ragnar Redbeard/Sven Battleaxe on these people and forcibly expel them (possible if the political will to shut off immigration has been summoned); (2) countries are partitioned into Christian and Muslim portions (also possible if immigration has been shut off); or (3) the Europeans gradually disappear into miscegenated "soup" and the nominally Christian people negotiate their dhimmi status with their Muslim overlords from a position of weakness.

Unless the White, Christian, native-born populations of Europe, the Americas and Australia-New Zealand deserve to go extinct for purely biological reasons (1) is ultimately the only conceivable course of action. And the longer we, or rather our chosen leaders, delay implementing this internal Crusade to rid ourselves of these vermin the bloodier and more genocidal – on both sides – will be the resulting civil war.

When the Spaniards were driven north by the Moros, and they started the 700 yrs Reconquista, the lands on the frontiers between Christians and Moors laid empty, so they would encourage the population to go to there with land grants, tax exemptions and other incentives. They let people out of prison if they settled there. Eventually a fortress would be built. But they did it, the last, greatest, crusade. And yes, they did have an embedded jewish elite.

It is a truism of political science that you cannot hold a territory without population. That is what's happening in Europe.

How many kids per head among the Unz readership? And if you have children, are you willing to encourage them, by persuasion, time and money, to marry and have kids? To know and love their country?

Otherwise, it's about the collective suicide of the greatest civilization to date.

And yes, they did have an embedded Jewish elite.

I suppose that you speak of the Moors in the Al-Andalus period, that is well-documented, although the Jewish servants of the Moors weren’t quite the elite, tax collectors, at times regional governors to persecute the Christian populations, they are said to have been quite enthusiastic about the Moorish invasion in general at the time, obligingly opening city gates and all.

they are said to have been quite enthusiastic about the Moorish invasion in general

True that, and the Muslims kicking out the Byzantines from the Holy Land too. The Copts were fairly happy about that in Egypt - at least at the beginning, they started having regrets once the Mamluks firmly established themselves and started changing policies.

Can't blame 'em really - the Visigoths couldn't make up their minds up about forced baptisms...tends to make people think you're not their friend any more:
“Even that last vestige of toleration of Judaism evaporated in 638 CE when the Sixth Council of Toledo reaffirmed the policy of forcibly baptizing all Iberian Jews. In fact, Toledo VI went far beyond Sisbut’s policy, not only advocating mandatory baptism, but declaring that the king’s right to rule was dependent on his working to eradicate Judaism…”
https://www.pdx.edu/honors/sites/www.pdx.edu.honors/files/11.%20Phillips%20Essay.pdf

"The Sixth Council of Toledo confirmed the canons of the Fourth Council. King Chintila
committed himself not to allow anyone who is not Catholic to live in the kingdom.
Moreover, a converts were obliged to make a profession of faith (placitum). Moreover,
baptised Jews were blamed for any apostates found in their families. They were to kill their
relapsed relatives by themselves in public....The Ninth Council of Toledo ordered converted Jews to spend all Jewish and Christian holy days in the presence of a bishop so as to prove the veracity of their faith."
http://www.nnet.gr/historein/historeinfiles/histvolumes/hist06/historein6-benveniste.pdf

Yes, very true. But also on the spanish side. They were called Conversos, and they became (some) part of the nobility. For example, King Enrique wanted to marry off his sister, the future Isabel la Católica, to a Don Pedro (I forget his last name) brother to Pacheco, close counselor to the king, a dark figure, they were both Conversos. Isabel's treasurer was jewish, married to her closest lady in waiting. Some were good spaniards, some accused of double dealing, some were popular because they were tax collectors. Isabel expelled them, as she expelled the moors. The jews then migrated to Low Countries and England and Portugal. Much suffering there, which they have not forgotten.

There's a fantastic, rather recent tv series called "Isabel" you can watch it free on TVE (Tv Española). The bit about who was a converso is largely omitted, but it's worth watching.

Wrong, and this is part of the problem. We are not a "proposition" nation that is mainly a bunch of ideas that could be replicated in other places if people had a Constitution and Bill of Rights, etc. We are at our core a European, Anglo-Saxon Christian nation and people. Our nation is unique and could not be replicated elsewhere with an ethnically different group. The notion that everyone could be and wants to be just like the US if only our military blows up enough stuff and kills "the bad guys" is what gets us into the Iraqs, Afghanistans, and Libyas of the world. It never works, but some people keep trying and it gets us nothing but heartache, dead and maimed soldiers, unhappy locals who survive the bombing, and an astronomical price tag and debt.

The problem is almost entirely the "diversity" of the newcomers, if all the immigrants in the past 30 years to US had been European we would have about .01 of the trouble and cost we are having with the third world invasion.

There is a video of Richard Spencer at a restaurant in DC taking questions from Jeffrey Tuckers’s libertarian acolytes. Richard stated UNEQUIVOCABLY that America is a European-raced based Nation. This comment triggered a young South Asian in the restaurant-bar…who proclaimed to Spencer:”America is not a European Nation”…..Spencer should have responded:”What if THE HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMETICAN MAJORITY revolts against South Asians comming into America and voting THE HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN MAJORITY into a racial Foriegner within the borders of America?

Go to Richard Spencer’s twitter feed for the video of this exchange.

I was hoping Richard Spencer would have mentioned something about the Giant Snakehead Fish from China….introduced by Chinese Legal Immigrants….now prowling the waters of the Potomac River nearby….

The country has become too racially, ethnically, culturally and religiously diverse for nationalism to work. Proposition nations don’t last.

The Roman Empire did eventually fall, of course, but it also did last quite a while.

True, and we likely have a long way to go, though the pace of things coming apart has moved much faster than I ever expected.

Also, unlike most around here, I’m not saying there’s going to be some big civil war or something similar, though, I suppose, that’s possible. Just a slow decline toward some type of Brazil seems more likely, but what the heck do I know. The world’s a funny place.

Regarding Rome, one big difference between them and us is that they retained their belief in their cultural supremacy right to the end. Imagine how much faster the Western Roman Empire would have fallen if they become self-hating in third century. That’s where we are. Also, things tend to move a bit quicker theses days than back then.

I guess that I just can’t see how a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural and multi-religious society with no dominant culture survives over the long run. It flies in the face of everything we seen throughout history and just doesn’t make much sense.

I used Democracy as a rough description. Of course America is a Republic with historical checks and balances on mob rule (something that leftists have eroded over time).

Do you consider yourself to be more of an American than some swarthy guy of Sicilian ancestry who is proud of the USA, believes in the free market, a democratic system of government, has assimilated into a Protestant work ethic, speaks English, etc. (that is, his ancestors adopted the values that your ancestors created) because your family has lived here since the 1700s and his came over 200 years later?

Ah, the old trick. Compare Mexican and Central American illegals to Poles and Italians. Mestizos are just the modern equivalent of Poles and Italians.

You do realize that we have plenty of third and fourth generation Mexicans and Central Americans to test your theory. Oh, what do you know, those Mexicans and Central Americans don’t turn into Poles and Italians. They remain what they are, Mexican and Central American Mestizos.

Look, if believing in free markets and democracy make you an “American,” why not let in the billions of people who would take that pledge tomorrow to emigrate here? Should we let them all in as fast as possible? If not, why not?

They’ll assimilate just like Italians and Poles, right?

You’ve got to be a Libertarian. Only libertarians can exist in that fantasy world.

Ah, the old trick. Compare Mexican and Central American illegals to Poles and Italians. Mestizos are just the modern equivalent of Poles and Italians...You do realize that we have plenty of third and fourth generation Mexicans and Central Americans to test your theory. Oh, what do you know, those Mexicans and Central Americans don’t turn into Poles and Italians. They remain what they are, Mexican and Central American Mestizos

The ones along the border, no - there are too many of them all at once. That is a real problem. The ones living in more isolated circumstances are similar to the Italians of 120 years ago, on the other hand. There is a decent amount of Polish-Mexican intermarriage, for example, in the Midwest. The products of such marriages are English-speaking and blend in with the white working class. I regularly visit a small town in the Midwest where a Mexican couple opened a Mexican restaurant (there is also a pizza place and a Chinese place in the town). The Mexicans' kids speak English, go the local school, and date locals (there are not many Mexicans around). Their descendants will just be Americans with Mexican family recipes and darker complexions, as many Americans have Italian family recipes.

Given technological innovation we don't need low-skilled immigrants as we did 100 years ago, so mass immigration of any unskilled people is not something I support. I'm just clarifying whether or not someone like this is an American.

"Look, if believing in free markets and democracy make you an “American,” why not let in the billions of people who would take that pledge tomorrow to emigrate here

There's also being English-speaking, having what can be called a Protestant work ethic, and a view of the world and society that has a Christian basis.

Obviously letting in billions of people all at once would make assimilation of those billions into American culture impossible and would therefore be a bad and crazy idea. You are presenting a straw man, it's not something I ever advocated.

Well maybe those “40 odd countries” that the Muslims have “to be their own” aren’t really “their’s to have on their own” due to decades on colonial conquest by these same “Western nations.”

This right-wing, hyper-nationalist bigotry is very difficult to understand.

But let’s test this hypothesis- let’s DO allow these Muslims (or Mexicans, or Guatemalans or…) to have their nation for themselves. Step one is to force all Western countries to get out of these nations, all of the weaponry, all of the proxies, all of the intelligence apparatus and all of the business class, all of the Western puppet governments- everything. Step two is that ALL of the resources that these nations possess are in the hands solely of those nations who will now be determining their won fate- this means indigenous self-determination.

That is not my read of the current hysterics. I think the hypocrisy & racism are secondary effects, masking the actual real pain points (which most certainly are not caused by immigrants or Muslims). Even the governing classes that affect Islamophobia can't be accused of "sheer hypocrisy" unless you mean that in the strict sense of pretense. I think it is rather a very coldly calculated equation on their part. And as for the subject masses, think pecking order & omega wolves.

Eric Idle...Terry Gilliam....Terry Jones...Michael Palin....John Cleese are all on board with 1) importing the MOHAMMADAN Gang Rape Army into Europe and America...2)War with Christian Russia...3)installing Hillary Clinton as POTUS ....I know this because I have been reading their tweets since last spring..

Michael Palin has been actively involved with resettling African Muslims in John Derbyshires' Merry Old England.

It's strange to be more pessimistic than John ("We are Doomed") Derbyshire. But you can't forget politicians--they're still running things. And the demographic changes mentioned by the caller to Nigel Farage are all too real. Even if all further immigration were shut off this afternoon, countries like the U.K., France, Germany and Sweden (and others) would face a large number of totally unassimlable, genetically-different, culturally hostile Arabs, Africans, Turks, and South Asians. I see three options: (1) Europeans go full Ragnar Redbeard/Sven Battleaxe on these people and forcibly expel them (possible if the political will to shut off immigration has been summoned); (2) countries are partitioned into Christian and Muslim portions (also possible if immigration has been shut off); or (3) the Europeans gradually disappear into miscegenated "soup" and the nominally Christian people negotiate their dhimmi status with their Muslim overlords from a position of weakness.

You forgot Option 4., which is an extension of Option 2; These countries will turn into Lebanon. That’s the future. Tribalism in one country!

The "assimilated Muslim" is cousin to the 'well socialized negro'. A comforting thought to those who want to believe in this mirror image of their own virtue but do these people really exist anymore than athiests exist in foxholes?

I am reminded of that Egyptian airline pilot who flew his plane into the Atlantic. By all accounts he was thoroughly Westernized, to the point he was being sent back to Egypt for disciplinary reasons because his playboy like lifestyle had upset officials at Egyptian Airlines. Rather than quit the airline he did the 'Islamic thing' and, while shrieking Allahu Akbar, put the aircraft into a dive and killed some 250 passengers along with himself!

Hey unit472,

Ah yes – and we all know that is the ‘Islamic thing’ to do because a thoroughly Westernized playboy Egyptian did it. (sigh)

Of course, if you have a statement from a mufti from, say, the University of Azhar or Sarhanpur or Selangor, etc. (you know, the guys who make a living trying to figure out the ‘Islamic thing’ to do) that says the way to handle discipline at the job is to kill oneself and everyone else on a flight packed with Muslims – boy, will I have serious egg on my face (and that sucks, because try to get that stuff out of a beard – let me tell ya).

Logic – the other white meat.

Peace.

Note: Of course, going postal on the job might have been part of his Westernization – it seems it has been such a concern that my company recently had everyone undergo a mandatory ‘Insider Threat Training’ for potential workplace security and violence risks.

Who was the guy 2 years ago who crashed that Germanwings plane in Europe on purpose killing everyone onboard, was it Muhammad Ibn Andreas Lubitz lol??? Nope last I checked he wasn't a "muzzie", how selective the memories of some of you cucks on here are.

Well maybe those "40 odd countries" that the Muslims have "to be their own" aren't really "their's to have on their own" due to decades on colonial conquest by these same "Western nations."

This right-wing, hyper-nationalist bigotry is very difficult to understand.

But let's test this hypothesis- let's DO allow these Muslims (or Mexicans, or Guatemalans or...) to have their nation for themselves. Step one is to force all Western countries to get out of these nations, all of the weaponry, all of the proxies, all of the intelligence apparatus and all of the business class, all of the Western puppet governments- everything. Step two is that ALL of the resources that these nations possess are in the hands solely of those nations who will now be determining their won fate- this means indigenous self-determination.

That is not my read of the current hysterics. I think the hypocrisy & racism are secondary effects, masking the actual real pain points (which most certainly are not caused by immigrants or Muslims). Even the governing classes that affect Islamophobia can’t be accused of “sheer hypocrisy” unless you mean that in the strict sense of pretense. I think it is rather a very coldly calculated equation on their part. And as for the subject masses, think pecking order & omega wolves.

I suppose that you speak of the Moors in the Al-Andalus period, that is well-documented, although the Jewish servants of the Moors weren't quite the elite, tax collectors, at times regional governors to persecute the Christian populations, they are said to have been quite enthusiastic about the Moorish invasion in general at the time, obligingly opening city gates and all.

All well documented, and with definite echoes in the present day.

Hey Che,

they are said to have been quite enthusiastic about the Moorish invasion in general

True that, and the Muslims kicking out the Byzantines from the Holy Land too. The Copts were fairly happy about that in Egypt – at least at the beginning, they started having regrets once the Mamluks firmly established themselves and started changing policies.

Can’t blame ‘em really – the Visigoths couldn’t make up their minds up about forced baptisms…tends to make people think you’re not their friend any more:
“Even that last vestige of toleration of Judaism evaporated in 638 CE when the Sixth Council of Toledo reaffirmed the policy of forcibly baptizing all Iberian Jews. In fact, Toledo VI went far beyond Sisbut’s policy, not only advocating mandatory baptism, but declaring that the king’s right to rule was dependent on his working to eradicate Judaism…”

“The Sixth Council of Toledo confirmed the canons of the Fourth Council. King Chintila
committed himself not to allow anyone who is not Catholic to live in the kingdom.
Moreover, a converts were obliged to make a profession of faith (placitum). Moreover,
baptised Jews were blamed for any apostates found in their families. They were to kill their
relapsed relatives by themselves in public….The Ninth Council of Toledo ordered converted Jews to spend all Jewish and Christian holy days in the presence of a bishop so as to prove the veracity of their faith.”

Well maybe those "40 odd countries" that the Muslims have "to be their own" aren't really "their's to have on their own" due to decades on colonial conquest by these same "Western nations."

This right-wing, hyper-nationalist bigotry is very difficult to understand.

But let's test this hypothesis- let's DO allow these Muslims (or Mexicans, or Guatemalans or...) to have their nation for themselves. Step one is to force all Western countries to get out of these nations, all of the weaponry, all of the proxies, all of the intelligence apparatus and all of the business class, all of the Western puppet governments- everything. Step two is that ALL of the resources that these nations possess are in the hands solely of those nations who will now be determining their won fate- this means indigenous self-determination.

The sheer hypocrisy and blatant racism is on full display here.

Hey Maxwell,

Dang – someone gets it! Don’t invade and there won’t be a need to invite!

Dear West,

We will stop sending our boat people when you stop sending yours (oh, you call them Marines).

Eric Idle…Terry Gilliam….Terry Jones…Michael Palin….John Cleese are all on board with 1) importing the MOHAMMADAN Gang Rape Army into Europe and America…2)War with Christian Russia…3)installing Hillary Clinton as POTUS ….I know this because I have been reading their tweets since last spring..

Michael Palin has been actively involved with resettling African Muslims in John Derbyshires’ Merry Old England.

They always were, to be honest. Typical members of Britain's cultural elite, hating and mocking every English tradition, despising the lower orders, smug and self-righteous. They were exactly the kinds of people who have spent the past half century destroying Britain.

A few years back he had nothing but disdain for the awesome (sic) patriot (sic) Sarah Palin.

Lately he observed how he wasn't sure London was even British anymore but it seemed to strike him as some kind of curious development. Certainly not something to rouse a proper Briton to white-hot fury.

Ah yes - and we all know that is the 'Islamic thing' to do because a thoroughly Westernized playboy Egyptian did it. (sigh)

Of course, if you have a statement from a mufti from, say, the University of Azhar or Sarhanpur or Selangor, etc. (you know, the guys who make a living trying to figure out the 'Islamic thing' to do) that says the way to handle discipline at the job is to kill oneself and everyone else on a flight packed with Muslims - boy, will I have serious egg on my face (and that sucks, because try to get that stuff out of a beard - let me tell ya).

Logic - the other white meat.

Peace.

Note: Of course, going postal on the job might have been part of his Westernization - it seems it has been such a concern that my company recently had everyone undergo a mandatory 'Insider Threat Training' for potential workplace security and violence risks.

Who was the guy 2 years ago who crashed that Germanwings plane in Europe on purpose killing everyone onboard, was it Muhammad Ibn Andreas Lubitz lol??? Nope last I checked he wasn’t a “muzzie”, how selective the memories of some of you cucks on here are.

Eric Idle...Terry Gilliam....Terry Jones...Michael Palin....John Cleese are all on board with 1) importing the MOHAMMADAN Gang Rape Army into Europe and America...2)War with Christian Russia...3)installing Hillary Clinton as POTUS ....I know this because I have been reading their tweets since last spring..

Michael Palin has been actively involved with resettling African Muslims in John Derbyshires' Merry Old England.

Monty Python=pure evil!!!

Gang rape on a mass scale is actually something our paleskin brethren did all through the Western Hemisphere settling this land, muslim gang rape hardly compares.

The racial guilt trip about the "Noble" American Injun is only meant to apply to Whitey....when the Asian "Americans" vote Whitey into a violently persecuted racial minority in post-white toilet "America"....1)the leftist Noam Chomsky propaganda about The "Noble" American Injun gets quickly flushed down the toilet...and 2) the Chinese...Hindu...Sihk...Pakistan Muslim..."Americans".....will be encouraged to enjoy the full benefits of the European conquest of North America...

As a Native Born White American Race Patriot...there is only one question that maters:Why should The Historic Native Born White American Working Class tolerate Asian and Muslim "Americans" voting them into a racial minority within the borders of America?...Would would be the great benefit of this?...Answer:They shouldn't tolerate this...and there is 0 benefit to being voted into a racial minority by Greater China...Greater India...and Geater Pakistan...

Who do you think the "Noble and Gentle" Hopi were eating for dinner at Chaco Canyon?

they are said to have been quite enthusiastic about the Moorish invasion in general

True that, and the Muslims kicking out the Byzantines from the Holy Land too. The Copts were fairly happy about that in Egypt - at least at the beginning, they started having regrets once the Mamluks firmly established themselves and started changing policies.

Can't blame 'em really - the Visigoths couldn't make up their minds up about forced baptisms...tends to make people think you're not their friend any more:
“Even that last vestige of toleration of Judaism evaporated in 638 CE when the Sixth Council of Toledo reaffirmed the policy of forcibly baptizing all Iberian Jews. In fact, Toledo VI went far beyond Sisbut’s policy, not only advocating mandatory baptism, but declaring that the king’s right to rule was dependent on his working to eradicate Judaism…”
https://www.pdx.edu/honors/sites/www.pdx.edu.honors/files/11.%20Phillips%20Essay.pdf

"The Sixth Council of Toledo confirmed the canons of the Fourth Council. King Chintila
committed himself not to allow anyone who is not Catholic to live in the kingdom.
Moreover, a converts were obliged to make a profession of faith (placitum). Moreover,
baptised Jews were blamed for any apostates found in their families. They were to kill their
relapsed relatives by themselves in public....The Ninth Council of Toledo ordered converted Jews to spend all Jewish and Christian holy days in the presence of a bishop so as to prove the veracity of their faith."
http://www.nnet.gr/historein/historeinfiles/histvolumes/hist06/historein6-benveniste.pdf

That kind of sucks, don't you think?

Peace.

No, I don’t think so. They participated in the occupation, so that reaction is natural.

Bro - that was pre-invasion; look at the dates - this is decades before Tariq Ibn Ziyad (ra) lands the Ummayyad fleet on the shores in 711 CE. In fact, some of those events take place while the Prophet (pbuh) is still preaching in Mecca.

I'm not even talking post invasion (which I can at least understand, though extreme in its measures).

All I'm saying is, if the Visigoths were on-again/off-again forcibly baptizing Jews, you can expect them to welcome new rulers - it's not rocket science. I mean, given how Daesh is treating Yazidis, is it even a question that they (Yazidis) are praying for some foreign force (Muslim or Christian) to overthrow them?

Gang rape on a mass scale is actually something our paleskin brethren did all through the Western Hemisphere settling this land, muslim gang rape hardly compares.

Mike Johnson

The racial guilt trip about the “Noble” American Injun is only meant to apply to Whitey….when the Asian “Americans” vote Whitey into a violently persecuted racial minority in post-white toilet “America”….1)the leftist Noam Chomsky propaganda about The “Noble” American Injun gets quickly flushed down the toilet…and 2) the Chinese…Hindu…Sihk…Pakistan Muslim…”Americans”…..will be encouraged to enjoy the full benefits of the European conquest of North America…

As a Native Born White American Race Patriot…there is only one question that maters:Why should The Historic Native Born White American Working Class tolerate Asian and Muslim “Americans” voting them into a racial minority within the borders of America?…Would would be the great benefit of this?…Answer:They shouldn’t tolerate this…and there is 0 benefit to being voted into a racial minority by Greater China…Greater India…and Geater Pakistan…

Who do you think the “Noble and Gentle” Hopi were eating for dinner at Chaco Canyon?

That's all fine but adds nothing to your argument casting a people that have by far been at the receiving end of our violence as the Gang Rape Mohammadens. For better or worse, most Muslims have more respect for the Sacred and Christianity than the decadent whites of America who have allowed the Jews to desecrate their religion. and could give two shits about a Jesus.

Answer:They shouldn’t tolerate this…and there is 0 benefit to being voted into a racial minority by Greater China…Greater India…and Geater Pakistan…

Totally understand - it makes sense. Now, let me ask you, if that really is the concern, why not lobby for a moratorium or rescinding voting rights of any naturalized citizens from post-1960 and their progeny?

I mean, what is the goal here? Let's talk brass tacks, realistic goals, stuff that you can actualize in the public sphere...are you really going to be able to push the current society toward expulsion of all these people who are full citizens? Why not first see if it is possible and politically feasible to at least revoke some of their privileges that you feel are the most threatening? If you cannot do this in baby steps, how do you expect to achieve it full scale?

Maybe a very real and serious push can be made to establish and uphold solid state's rights to the point that they can control who enters and exists from other states. Then any number of states can become havens for White Nativist breeding and genetic isolation - White is what gives you meaning - I can easily respect that; I don't want to get in your way any more than I want anyone getting in the way of Islam giving me meaning.

Or are you just hoping for some complete civil collapse and hope a new White paradise arises like a Phoenix from the ashes? A bit like I hear from ole Joe Webb from time to time.

Look, I want to take you seriously, but you are basically ranting at this point - let's slow it down, put aside the emotion, and hash out some details. I have no problems with Whites, I want them to succeed - I don't particularly care if they want to genetically integrate with others or not, that's their business...but I think they are misdiagnosing the problem.

Easy to direct your energy on the immigrants and much more difficult to own up to the easily corruptible characteristics of white Americans that make us such easy prey to Zionist money and power and this bottom line is why American patriotism means almost nothing anymore. Americans on both sides of the Left/Right spectrum lack the humility for self reflection, and so its always the evil outsider responsible for our plight whether that's Putin, Russia, Muslims, immigrants and even Jews. As guilty as these groups are, especially Jews, you notice who's missing from this list, Blair Mountain, it's white Americans like you and I. And how pathetic, that for instance, we have allowed the Jews in this country to make a mockery of our religion and morality here while in Israel, none of the shit they push here would fly and they no better than to try, we are American suckers

No, I don't think so. They participated in the occupation, so that reaction is natural.

Bro – that was pre-invasion; look at the dates – this is decades before Tariq Ibn Ziyad (ra) lands the Ummayyad fleet on the shores in 711 CE. In fact, some of those events take place while the Prophet (pbuh) is still preaching in Mecca.

I’m not even talking post invasion (which I can at least understand, though extreme in its measures).

All I’m saying is, if the Visigoths were on-again/off-again forcibly baptizing Jews, you can expect them to welcome new rulers – it’s not rocket science. I mean, given how Daesh is treating Yazidis, is it even a question that they (Yazidis) are praying for some foreign force (Muslim or Christian) to overthrow them?

The racial guilt trip about the "Noble" American Injun is only meant to apply to Whitey....when the Asian "Americans" vote Whitey into a violently persecuted racial minority in post-white toilet "America"....1)the leftist Noam Chomsky propaganda about The "Noble" American Injun gets quickly flushed down the toilet...and 2) the Chinese...Hindu...Sihk...Pakistan Muslim..."Americans".....will be encouraged to enjoy the full benefits of the European conquest of North America...

As a Native Born White American Race Patriot...there is only one question that maters:Why should The Historic Native Born White American Working Class tolerate Asian and Muslim "Americans" voting them into a racial minority within the borders of America?...Would would be the great benefit of this?...Answer:They shouldn't tolerate this...and there is 0 benefit to being voted into a racial minority by Greater China...Greater India...and Geater Pakistan...

Who do you think the "Noble and Gentle" Hopi were eating for dinner at Chaco Canyon?

That’s all fine but adds nothing to your argument casting a people that have by far been at the receiving end of our violence as the Gang Rape Mohammadens. For better or worse, most Muslims have more respect for the Sacred and Christianity than the decadent whites of America who have allowed the Jews to desecrate their religion. and could give two shits about a Jesus.

It’s turning, though. Five years ago Le Pen, Wilders, and Farage were written off as extremist fringe candidates.

The really shocking and depressing thing is that support for nationalist parties is so low. The polls have Le Pen on 26 percent. That's dismal. That means 74 percent of French voters will vote for the destruction of their own country. The sad truth is that Wilders and Le Pen are still fringe candidates.

It's no good making excuses for Europeans. They want to be destroyed. They welcome it.

If Marine weren’t so abysmal in all other aspects …. another rich girl who has never had to look at a bad balance sheet, talking big.

She a Big Statist (exactly what France doesn’t need) and talks Economic Autarky (exactly what France doesn’t need nor won’t manage; the Germans tried that in the 30′s, you know how that went). No go areas.

BBC reports that – in 1957 – the British and American leaders approved the use of Islamic extremists and false flag attacks to topple the Syrian government: Nearly 50 years before the war in Iraq, Britain and America sought a secretive “regime change” in another Arab country… by planning the invasion of Syria and the assassination of leading figures.

The racial guilt trip about the "Noble" American Injun is only meant to apply to Whitey....when the Asian "Americans" vote Whitey into a violently persecuted racial minority in post-white toilet "America"....1)the leftist Noam Chomsky propaganda about The "Noble" American Injun gets quickly flushed down the toilet...and 2) the Chinese...Hindu...Sihk...Pakistan Muslim..."Americans".....will be encouraged to enjoy the full benefits of the European conquest of North America...

As a Native Born White American Race Patriot...there is only one question that maters:Why should The Historic Native Born White American Working Class tolerate Asian and Muslim "Americans" voting them into a racial minority within the borders of America?...Would would be the great benefit of this?...Answer:They shouldn't tolerate this...and there is 0 benefit to being voted into a racial minority by Greater China...Greater India...and Geater Pakistan...

Who do you think the "Noble and Gentle" Hopi were eating for dinner at Chaco Canyon?

Hey WFBM,

Answer:They shouldn’t tolerate this…and there is 0 benefit to being voted into a racial minority by Greater China…Greater India…and Geater Pakistan…

Totally understand – it makes sense. Now, let me ask you, if that really is the concern, why not lobby for a moratorium or rescinding voting rights of any naturalized citizens from post-1960 and their progeny?

I mean, what is the goal here? Let’s talk brass tacks, realistic goals, stuff that you can actualize in the public sphere…are you really going to be able to push the current society toward expulsion of all these people who are full citizens? Why not first see if it is possible and politically feasible to at least revoke some of their privileges that you feel are the most threatening? If you cannot do this in baby steps, how do you expect to achieve it full scale?

Maybe a very real and serious push can be made to establish and uphold solid state’s rights to the point that they can control who enters and exists from other states. Then any number of states can become havens for White Nativist breeding and genetic isolation – White is what gives you meaning – I can easily respect that; I don’t want to get in your way any more than I want anyone getting in the way of Islam giving me meaning.

Or are you just hoping for some complete civil collapse and hope a new White paradise arises like a Phoenix from the ashes? A bit like I hear from ole Joe Webb from time to time.

Look, I want to take you seriously, but you are basically ranting at this point – let’s slow it down, put aside the emotion, and hash out some details. I have no problems with Whites, I want them to succeed – I don’t particularly care if they want to genetically integrate with others or not, that’s their business…but I think they are misdiagnosing the problem.

Ah, the old trick. Compare Mexican and Central American illegals to Poles and Italians. Mestizos are just the modern equivalent of Poles and Italians.

You do realize that we have plenty of third and fourth generation Mexicans and Central Americans to test your theory. Oh, what do you know, those Mexicans and Central Americans don't turn into Poles and Italians. They remain what they are, Mexican and Central American Mestizos.

Look, if believing in free markets and democracy make you an "American," why not let in the billions of people who would take that pledge tomorrow to emigrate here? Should we let them all in as fast as possible? If not, why not?

They'll assimilate just like Italians and Poles, right?

You've got to be a Libertarian. Only libertarians can exist in that fantasy world.

Ah, the old trick. Compare Mexican and Central American illegals to Poles and Italians. Mestizos are just the modern equivalent of Poles and Italians…You do realize that we have plenty of third and fourth generation Mexicans and Central Americans to test your theory. Oh, what do you know, those Mexicans and Central Americans don’t turn into Poles and Italians. They remain what they are, Mexican and Central American Mestizos

The ones along the border, no – there are too many of them all at once. That is a real problem. The ones living in more isolated circumstances are similar to the Italians of 120 years ago, on the other hand. There is a decent amount of Polish-Mexican intermarriage, for example, in the Midwest. The products of such marriages are English-speaking and blend in with the white working class. I regularly visit a small town in the Midwest where a Mexican couple opened a Mexican restaurant (there is also a pizza place and a Chinese place in the town). The Mexicans’ kids speak English, go the local school, and date locals (there are not many Mexicans around). Their descendants will just be Americans with Mexican family recipes and darker complexions, as many Americans have Italian family recipes.

Given technological innovation we don’t need low-skilled immigrants as we did 100 years ago, so mass immigration of any unskilled people is not something I support. I’m just clarifying whether or not someone like this is an American.

“Look, if believing in free markets and democracy make you an “American,” why not let in the billions of people who would take that pledge tomorrow to emigrate here

There’s also being English-speaking, having what can be called a Protestant work ethic, and a view of the world and society that has a Christian basis.

Obviously letting in billions of people all at once would make assimilation of those billions into American culture impossible and would therefore be a bad and crazy idea. You are presenting a straw man, it’s not something I ever advocated.

The racial guilt trip about the "Noble" American Injun is only meant to apply to Whitey....when the Asian "Americans" vote Whitey into a violently persecuted racial minority in post-white toilet "America"....1)the leftist Noam Chomsky propaganda about The "Noble" American Injun gets quickly flushed down the toilet...and 2) the Chinese...Hindu...Sihk...Pakistan Muslim..."Americans".....will be encouraged to enjoy the full benefits of the European conquest of North America...

As a Native Born White American Race Patriot...there is only one question that maters:Why should The Historic Native Born White American Working Class tolerate Asian and Muslim "Americans" voting them into a racial minority within the borders of America?...Would would be the great benefit of this?...Answer:They shouldn't tolerate this...and there is 0 benefit to being voted into a racial minority by Greater China...Greater India...and Geater Pakistan...

Who do you think the "Noble and Gentle" Hopi were eating for dinner at Chaco Canyon?

Easy to direct your energy on the immigrants and much more difficult to own up to the easily corruptible characteristics of white Americans that make us such easy prey to Zionist money and power and this bottom line is why American patriotism means almost nothing anymore. Americans on both sides of the Left/Right spectrum lack the humility for self reflection, and so its always the evil outsider responsible for our plight whether that’s Putin, Russia, Muslims, immigrants and even Jews. As guilty as these groups are, especially Jews, you notice who’s missing from this list, Blair Mountain, it’s white Americans like you and I. And how pathetic, that for instance, we have allowed the Jews in this country to make a mockery of our religion and morality here while in Israel, none of the shit they push here would fly and they no better than to try, we are American suckers

Americans on both sides of the Left/Right spectrum lack the humility for self reflection

This here is gold! I am also pretty tired of Muslims blaming many of our problems on others without first reflecting on our own serious issues - many of our countries are also cesspools of corruption and infighting. This is the key, without this - nothing changes.
"...Indeed, God will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves..." (13:11)

It is easy to blame others - it is a very spiritually immature place to be in.

a mockery of our religion and morality here

This also! God will not be mocked. And if He is, He reserves the right to replace people with others that will make sure that doesn't happen.
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap." Galatians 6:7

More nonwhite Legal Immigrant worship from a 9/11 Truther polecat=more malodorous musk from the polecat.

It's very easy for me to focus on nonwhite Legal Immigrant Scab Labor. My NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN FAMILY experienced the very nasty consequences of this policy..as did many other NATIVE BORN WHITE WORKING CLASS FAMILIES....The economic violence and demographic violence of nonwhite Legal Immigrants has increased to an open-declaration-of-a-race war-against whitey level=Aziz Ansari's opening monologue SNL a few weeks ago.....a few months after Pakistani Muslim "American" Khizir Khan's declaration of a demographic race war on national TV...

Wrong, and this is part of the problem. We are not a "proposition" nation that is mainly a bunch of ideas that could be replicated in other places if people had a Constitution and Bill of Rights, etc. We are at our core a European, Anglo-Saxon Christian nation and people. Our nation is unique and could not be replicated elsewhere with an ethnically different group. The notion that everyone could be and wants to be just like the US if only our military blows up enough stuff and kills "the bad guys" is what gets us into the Iraqs, Afghanistans, and Libyas of the world. It never works, but some people keep trying and it gets us nothing but heartache, dead and maimed soldiers, unhappy locals who survive the bombing, and an astronomical price tag and debt.

The problem is almost entirely the "diversity" of the newcomers, if all the immigrants in the past 30 years to US had been European we would have about .01 of the trouble and cost we are having with the third world invasion.

Wrong, and this is part of the problem. We are not a “proposition” nation that is mainly a bunch of ideas that could be replicated in other places if people had a Constitution and Bill of Rights, etc

I never claimed it was the simple. Assimilation involves more than just a Constitution and Bill of Rights. It involves adopting the language and culture. Italians did it. Many 4th generation Latinos not living in the zone near the border have done it. In order for this to succeed immigration needs to be limited. But that doesn’t mean that someone can’t be an American because he is not of purely European descent. America isn’t a nation based on ethnicity, it’s one based in traditions, ideology and culture.

We are at our core a European, Anglo-Saxon Christian nation and people. Our nation is unique and could not be replicated elsewhere with an ethnically different group

I agree.

The notion that everyone could be and wants to be just like the US if only our military blows up enough stuff and kills “the bad guys” is what gets us into the Iraqs, Afghanistans, and Libyas of the world.

I think you are claiming a popular confection that never happened, my reasoning has statistical reality, and is based on bitter lived experience, not on a fake 'I havethe same', as yours is. Raped anyone lately? Wouldn't be surprised if you had, from the reply.

It's strange to be more pessimistic than John ("We are Doomed") Derbyshire. But you can't forget politicians--they're still running things. And the demographic changes mentioned by the caller to Nigel Farage are all too real. Even if all further immigration were shut off this afternoon, countries like the U.K., France, Germany and Sweden (and others) would face a large number of totally unassimlable, genetically-different, culturally hostile Arabs, Africans, Turks, and South Asians. I see three options: (1) Europeans go full Ragnar Redbeard/Sven Battleaxe on these people and forcibly expel them (possible if the political will to shut off immigration has been summoned); (2) countries are partitioned into Christian and Muslim portions (also possible if immigration has been shut off); or (3) the Europeans gradually disappear into miscegenated "soup" and the nominally Christian people negotiate their dhimmi status with their Muslim overlords from a position of weakness.

I’m less worried about Sweden than Brits should be about the UK.

Believe it or not but the Swedish problems is less about devout muslims and more about people trying hard to be Scarface. The muslim groups that were common until recently were Iranians, Kurds, Bosnians and Albanians. They weren’t always perfectly integrated but they also weren’t that good muslims either. Apart from a few maniacs most anti-immigration Swedes are mostly against the idea of a multicultural society. We don’t particularly like the Christian Arabs and Assyrians either…

There’s also the fact that until recently it was impossible to talk about this. The tide is turning fast in my country and it’s visible to everyone. This is why MSM and some politicians are doubling down on their efforts. There are pockets of lunatics running towns and parts of government but it mostly looks like there will be much more pragmatism going forward.

If not today then after next election which is next year. First on the list to fix is the police and the incompetent police commissioner.

>>Believe it or not but the Swedish problems is less about devout muslims and more about people trying hard to be Scarface......They weren’t always perfectly integrated but they also weren’t that good muslims either.<<

Indulging in sex, drugs and ghetto culture is not incompatible with being a devout and "good" muslim. The most important thing for a "good" muslim is to spread Islam, by violence if necessary. In fact all the petty sins of indulgence, rape, fornication will be forgiven, and paradise awaits, if the "good" muslim commits himself to Jihad.

Se·mit·ic
səˈmidik/
adjective
1.
relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.
2.
relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic.

Easy to direct your energy on the immigrants and much more difficult to own up to the easily corruptible characteristics of white Americans that make us such easy prey to Zionist money and power and this bottom line is why American patriotism means almost nothing anymore. Americans on both sides of the Left/Right spectrum lack the humility for self reflection, and so its always the evil outsider responsible for our plight whether that's Putin, Russia, Muslims, immigrants and even Jews. As guilty as these groups are, especially Jews, you notice who's missing from this list, Blair Mountain, it's white Americans like you and I. And how pathetic, that for instance, we have allowed the Jews in this country to make a mockery of our religion and morality here while in Israel, none of the shit they push here would fly and they no better than to try, we are American suckers

Hey Mike,

Americans on both sides of the Left/Right spectrum lack the humility for self reflection

This here is gold! I am also pretty tired of Muslims blaming many of our problems on others without first reflecting on our own serious issues – many of our countries are also cesspools of corruption and infighting. This is the key, without this – nothing changes.
“…Indeed, God will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves…” (13:11)

It is easy to blame others – it is a very spiritually immature place to be in.

a mockery of our religion and morality here

This also! God will not be mocked. And if He is, He reserves the right to replace people with others that will make sure that doesn’t happen.
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.” Galatians 6:7

Se·mit·ic
səˈmidik/
adjective
1.
relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.
2.
relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic.

From merriam-webster
Definition of anti–Semitism
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group

I can’t believe the amount of idiots who are defending this, they are playing right into muslims propaganda.

I agree with Sailer and Derbyshire in condemnation of the policy of USA
"Invite the World."
But where is Derbyshire's second part, "Invade the World" ?
With greatest respect and friendly feelings towards John Derbyshire,
Anonymous.

I think the point is that Derb doesn’t feel the need to eliminate Islam from the world. He doesn’t dislike it in itself. He just doesn’t want it taking over the societies he cares about.

What I am against is the creation by USA situation of instability in the foreign countries, including Muslim ones.
It would be naive to think that events like "Arab spring", killing Qaddafi, etc.,
happen without direct influence of the USA.
This is not even saying about Afghan, Iraq and Syria wars.
I expect clarity from Derbyshire on USA's meddling in the business of other countries,
and creating there conditions, intolerable for living.

Mr. Derbyshire, condemn "Invade the World", please,
along with condemnation of "Invite the World" !

Easy to direct your energy on the immigrants and much more difficult to own up to the easily corruptible characteristics of white Americans that make us such easy prey to Zionist money and power and this bottom line is why American patriotism means almost nothing anymore. Americans on both sides of the Left/Right spectrum lack the humility for self reflection, and so its always the evil outsider responsible for our plight whether that's Putin, Russia, Muslims, immigrants and even Jews. As guilty as these groups are, especially Jews, you notice who's missing from this list, Blair Mountain, it's white Americans like you and I. And how pathetic, that for instance, we have allowed the Jews in this country to make a mockery of our religion and morality here while in Israel, none of the shit they push here would fly and they no better than to try, we are American suckers

More nonwhite Legal Immigrant worship from a 9/11 Truther polecat=more malodorous musk from the polecat.

It’s very easy for me to focus on nonwhite Legal Immigrant Scab Labor. My NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN FAMILY experienced the very nasty consequences of this policy..as did many other NATIVE BORN WHITE WORKING CLASS FAMILIES….The economic violence and demographic violence of nonwhite Legal Immigrants has increased to an open-declaration-of-a-race war-against whitey level=Aziz Ansari’s opening monologue SNL a few weeks ago…..a few months after Pakistani Muslim “American” Khizir Khan’s declaration of a demographic race war on national TV…

Answer:They shouldn’t tolerate this…and there is 0 benefit to being voted into a racial minority by Greater China…Greater India…and Geater Pakistan…

Totally understand - it makes sense. Now, let me ask you, if that really is the concern, why not lobby for a moratorium or rescinding voting rights of any naturalized citizens from post-1960 and their progeny?

I mean, what is the goal here? Let's talk brass tacks, realistic goals, stuff that you can actualize in the public sphere...are you really going to be able to push the current society toward expulsion of all these people who are full citizens? Why not first see if it is possible and politically feasible to at least revoke some of their privileges that you feel are the most threatening? If you cannot do this in baby steps, how do you expect to achieve it full scale?

Maybe a very real and serious push can be made to establish and uphold solid state's rights to the point that they can control who enters and exists from other states. Then any number of states can become havens for White Nativist breeding and genetic isolation - White is what gives you meaning - I can easily respect that; I don't want to get in your way any more than I want anyone getting in the way of Islam giving me meaning.

Or are you just hoping for some complete civil collapse and hope a new White paradise arises like a Phoenix from the ashes? A bit like I hear from ole Joe Webb from time to time.

Look, I want to take you seriously, but you are basically ranting at this point - let's slow it down, put aside the emotion, and hash out some details. I have no problems with Whites, I want them to succeed - I don't particularly care if they want to genetically integrate with others or not, that's their business...but I think they are misdiagnosing the problem.

Peace.

There are now two nations within the borders of the US:one White….one nonWhite…the situation will evolve to a Mass Expulsion scenario….

US society will collapse along several dimensions.

Your comments are essentially a demographic-race threat to the NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN MAJORITY WORKING CLASS…

America was never an abstract-legal proposition…It is all about Racial Tribalism.

My comments are a plea to try to understand someone and where they are coming from. To try to figure out a moral and reasonable solution. I am not a liberal SJW - you should know this by now. I don't intend to make myself your enemy, I have nothing against you or your progeny - I wish them the best in this world and the next. If you consider me an enemy, so be it - that's your right. I am not scared about leaving the US (like I said - get me the official federal notice) - I am not for sale, nor am I trying to sell you anything.

It is all about Racial Tribalism

Put religion in the ring against racial tribalism and religion will wipe the floor with it every time.

And if racial tribalism has religion on the ropes - it's because it's not dealing with a religion that knows how to swing anymore.

You constant harping on race are expressing a materialist mentality devoid of the metaphysical reality of the universe. Read again what Mike wrote - then read it again. If you do not believe it, it is fine - that is your right, but if it is true and America has become a moral cesspool then you are not fighting us Muslims or anybody else (we are irrelevant) - you have become a Pharoanic enterprise that is in rebellion - you are fighting God. You don't win that fight.

If that is the metaphysical reality - then make no mistake, this is by design and you are being replaced and the rest is details. This is the time to go back to God in utter and abject humility and ask Him to take you back and reform your ways and your society (starting first with oneself).

This, of course, is all predicated on belief - but if it is the reality - then it doesn't matter whether you want to believe it or not.

Western society (and the White people who built it) has a ton of good things about it. It doesn't lack technology or intelligence or literacy, etc. - it lacks meaning, people don't have meaning any more - that's why random useless activities like LARP are top-heavy with Whites. And if you think racial tribalism will give you the meaning that religion can't, well - go for it is all I can say...and good luck, you'll need it.

I think the point is that Derb doesn't feel the need to eliminate Islam from the world. He doesn't dislike it in itself. He just doesn't want it taking over the societies he cares about.

What I am against is the creation by USA situation of instability in the foreign countries, including Muslim ones.
It would be naive to think that events like “Arab spring”, killing Qaddafi, etc.,
happen without direct influence of the USA.
This is not even saying about Afghan, Iraq and Syria wars.
I expect clarity from Derbyshire on USA’s meddling in the business of other countries,
and creating there conditions, intolerable for living.

Mr. Derbyshire, condemn “Invade the World”, please,
along with condemnation of “Invite the World” !

When the Spaniards were driven north by the Moros, and they started the 700 yrs Reconquista, the lands on the frontiers between Christians and Moors laid empty, so they would encourage the population to go to there with land grants, tax exemptions and other incentives. They let people out of prison if they settled there. Eventually a fortress would be built. But they did it, the last, greatest, crusade. And yes, they did have an embedded jewish elite.

It is a truism of political science that you cannot hold a territory without population. That is what's happening in Europe.

How many kids per head among the Unz readership? And if you have children, are you willing to encourage them, by persuasion, time and money, to marry and have kids? To know and love their country?

Otherwise, it's about the collective suicide of the greatest civilization to date.

>> A great many other people, though—including this one—don’t mind Islam at all.....

You are full of shit, Derb. You hate and fear Islam as much as much as (more than..) anybody else, or the matter would not preoccupy so much of your time and thought. Your assumed diffidence is just your way of signaling your superiority to the rest of us. Get over it. Climb down. The time is getting late. We don't need faithless foot-draggers.

Not hating or “minding” Islam is like not hating or minding Nazism and Communism. I suggest “the Derb” view Jared Taylor’s video on Islam and Muslim immigration. Mohammad is arguably the worst monster in all of history. Hitler’s “reign of terror” lasted only 12 years. The totalitarian repression and mass-murders of Lenin and Stalin and Mao lasted “only” a few decades. The uniquely hateful religion founded by “the Prophet” has lasted 14 centuries and will surely conquer and destroy all or most of Europe not by jihadist violence, defeated in the past at Tours and “the gates of Vienna,” but by immigration and the fertility of Muslim women.

It doesn’t matter if the people of France, Germany, Sweden, Holland, etc. , want to end Muslim immigration. The governing-classes and ruling-elites are evil and insane, as they are in the U.S. and Canada, and thus will never end the invasion of Muslims and other Africans who will ultimately and inexorably turn their countries into Muslim/non-white majority hell-holes.

Mohammad is arguably the worst monster in all of history. Hitler’s “reign of terror” lasted only 12 years. The totalitarian repression and mass-murders of Lenin and Stalin and Mao lasted “only” a few decades. The uniquely hateful religion founded by “the Prophet” has lasted 14 centuries and will surely conquer and destroy all or most of Europe not by jihadist violence, defeated in the past at Tours and “the gates of Vienna,” but by immigration and the fertility of Muslim women.

Islam is the world's most successful and enduring imperialism. The Aztecs were pretty freakin' dark, evil and bloody with all their human sacrifice and cannibalism. Aztecs were a brief and ugly interlude compared to the Tyrannosaurus Rex of Islam during the past 14 centuries.

At the moment Islam's onslaught is via demographic Jihad with sporadic violence and car-B-ques. European violence will increase as its numbers of Muslims increase. This is simple arithmetic and logic.

If the Nazis had minded their own business, it would have been grossly inappropriate for us to invade Germany to get rid of them - and unnecessary, since they were terrible managers and couldn't make their economy work without going to war footing.

Not only would dictating the ideological acceptability of every nation in the world - and trying to wipe out those that refused to comply with our demands - isn't just ethically and morally abhorrent. It's totally and completely pointless. We have nothing to gain, and a great deal to lose.

Well said. The Islamic world must be forcibly democratized. The Iraq war failed only because it wasn't ambitious enough. Muslims keep saying the West is waging a "war on Islam", which is untrue--but it must become true. Every major Muslim country must be occupied and reorganized along secular liberal democratic lines. No price is too high for the achievement of this.

at that point you would be Muslims and would rise to the top to rule over the...

...world possibly. Wow - a resurgent Muslim Europe - I mean like with actual Europeans at its head - what a sight!

I think a collective sigh of relief would go up from the entire Ummah if Muslim Europeans kicked out the Sauds and took control of the Hijaz. Hajj logistics being run by Swiss and German Muslims - makes me giddy just thinking about it!

Take the banner that we've dropped...no problems here! Let the sun arise in the West!

Peace.

Yes indeed, Jihad is eternal until the whole world is under the banner of Dar Al Islam. Yikes!! That will be one messed up planet! The Sunnis and Shiites will have to fight and kill each other because there will be no infidels around. And not just those crazies but Sufis, Alewites, Ahmadiyya will all get to battle it out into Allah’s misbegotten eternity. Maybe the 12th Imam will jump out of his well and join the general mayhem.

I have a nutty theory to offer premised upon Israelis having a disproportionate influence on the immigration debate among my people. Why would Jews defend mass immigration to the West? Because they know that eventually driving the immigrants back out will be normal. When it's normal in France, Germany and England, Israel will exploit that new normal by eradicating their neighbors. Everybody will be doing it!

I know it's wacky but it's a theory.

I have thought this for some time. Turn the entire world into a mirror image of Israel, exhaust the entire world’s patience with the religion of peace, then go medieval on them to the general indifference of everyone.

Yes indeed, Jihad is eternal until the whole world is under the banner of Dar Al Islam. Yikes!! That will be one messed up planet! The Sunnis and Shiites will have to fight and kill each other because there will be no infidels around. And not just those crazies but Sufis, Alewites, Ahmadiyya will all get to battle it out into Allah's misbegotten eternity. Maybe the 12th Imam will jump out of his well and join the general mayhem.

Allahu Akkkkbaaaar!!!!

Bwaahahahahaaaaa!!!! We will eat your children!!!! With ketchup – no mayo though!!!! And hold the bacon bits!!!!

What I am against is the creation by USA situation of instability in the foreign countries, including Muslim ones.
It would be naive to think that events like "Arab spring", killing Qaddafi, etc.,
happen without direct influence of the USA.
This is not even saying about Afghan, Iraq and Syria wars.
I expect clarity from Derbyshire on USA's meddling in the business of other countries,
and creating there conditions, intolerable for living.

Mr. Derbyshire, condemn "Invade the World", please,
along with condemnation of "Invite the World" !

And the Imam, who was standing in front of the congregation, he said: “Allah has given us this country, and every knee will bow at the name of Allah.”

It is totally rational to want a peaceful neighborhood. To accomplish this, people have to be neighborly.

There are places in Sweden where Swedes are not welcome and cannot go – this is totally wrong – this is unacceptable. If Swedes were a bad people, this would be understandable – but that is not the case. Swedes are good neighbors – it is the Muslims who refuse to be good neighbors.

If someone refuses to be a neighbor – then they should leave the neighborhood.

People who cannot be good neighbors should not be accepted into the neighborhood.

Having been to Sweden, I can attest to Swedes being wonderful people. It is a shame that many Muslims there are behaving in a contemptible thug mentality. Either thy should reform or the Swedes should take immediate and swift measures to remove the trouble makers post haste to make an example of them that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

Not hating or "minding" Islam is like not hating or minding Nazism and Communism. I suggest "the Derb" view Jared Taylor's video on Islam and Muslim immigration. Mohammad is arguably the worst monster in all of history. Hitler's "reign of terror" lasted only 12 years. The totalitarian repression and mass-murders of Lenin and Stalin and Mao lasted "only" a few decades. The uniquely hateful religion founded by "the Prophet" has lasted 14 centuries and will surely conquer and destroy all or most of Europe not by jihadist violence, defeated in the past at Tours and "the gates of Vienna," but by immigration and the fertility of Muslim women.

It doesn't matter if the people of France, Germany, Sweden, Holland, etc. , want to end Muslim immigration. The governing-classes and ruling-elites are evil and insane, as they are in the U.S. and Canada, and thus will never end the invasion of Muslims and other Africans who will ultimately and inexorably turn their countries into Muslim/non-white majority hell-holes.

Mohammad is arguably the worst monster in all of history. Hitler’s “reign of terror” lasted only 12 years. The totalitarian repression and mass-murders of Lenin and Stalin and Mao lasted “only” a few decades. The uniquely hateful religion founded by “the Prophet” has lasted 14 centuries and will surely conquer and destroy all or most of Europe not by jihadist violence, defeated in the past at Tours and “the gates of Vienna,” but by immigration and the fertility of Muslim women.

Islam is the world’s most successful and enduring imperialism. The Aztecs were pretty freakin’ dark, evil and bloody with all their human sacrifice and cannibalism. Aztecs were a brief and ugly interlude compared to the Tyrannosaurus Rex of Islam during the past 14 centuries.

At the moment Islam’s onslaught is via demographic Jihad with sporadic violence and car-B-ques. European violence will increase as its numbers of Muslims increase. This is simple arithmetic and logic.

Not hating or "minding" Islam is like not hating or minding Nazism and Communism. I suggest "the Derb" view Jared Taylor's video on Islam and Muslim immigration. Mohammad is arguably the worst monster in all of history. Hitler's "reign of terror" lasted only 12 years. The totalitarian repression and mass-murders of Lenin and Stalin and Mao lasted "only" a few decades. The uniquely hateful religion founded by "the Prophet" has lasted 14 centuries and will surely conquer and destroy all or most of Europe not by jihadist violence, defeated in the past at Tours and "the gates of Vienna," but by immigration and the fertility of Muslim women.

It doesn't matter if the people of France, Germany, Sweden, Holland, etc. , want to end Muslim immigration. The governing-classes and ruling-elites are evil and insane, as they are in the U.S. and Canada, and thus will never end the invasion of Muslims and other Africans who will ultimately and inexorably turn their countries into Muslim/non-white majority hell-holes.

If the Nazis had minded their own business, it would have been grossly inappropriate for us to invade Germany to get rid of them – and unnecessary, since they were terrible managers and couldn’t make their economy work without going to war footing.

Not only would dictating the ideological acceptability of every nation in the world – and trying to wipe out those that refused to comply with our demands – isn’t just ethically and morally abhorrent. It’s totally and completely pointless. We have nothing to gain, and a great deal to lose.

If the Nazis had minded their own business, it would have been grossly inappropriate for us to invade Germany to get rid of them - and unnecessary, since they were terrible managers and couldn't make their economy work without going to war footing.

Now that's an interesting take. What are your sources?

Do you think it's appropriate for the suckers in the USA to send billions of $ to Israel every year? Is it merely tribute or are the Izzies such terrible managers that they need to be on welfare to make their economy work, or what?

There are now two nations within the borders of the US:one White....one nonWhite...the situation will evolve to a Mass Expulsion scenario....

US society will collapse along several dimensions.

Your comments are essentially a demographic-race threat to the NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN MAJORITY WORKING CLASS...

America was never an abstract-legal proposition...It is all about Racial Tribalism.

Your comments are

My comments are a plea to try to understand someone and where they are coming from. To try to figure out a moral and reasonable solution. I am not a liberal SJW – you should know this by now. I don’t intend to make myself your enemy, I have nothing against you or your progeny – I wish them the best in this world and the next. If you consider me an enemy, so be it – that’s your right. I am not scared about leaving the US (like I said – get me the official federal notice) – I am not for sale, nor am I trying to sell you anything.

It is all about Racial Tribalism

Put religion in the ring against racial tribalism and religion will wipe the floor with it every time.

And if racial tribalism has religion on the ropes – it’s because it’s not dealing with a religion that knows how to swing anymore.

You constant harping on race are expressing a materialist mentality devoid of the metaphysical reality of the universe. Read again what Mike wrote – then read it again. If you do not believe it, it is fine – that is your right, but if it is true and America has become a moral cesspool then you are not fighting us Muslims or anybody else (we are irrelevant) – you have become a Pharoanic enterprise that is in rebellion – you are fighting God. You don’t win that fight.

If that is the metaphysical reality – then make no mistake, this is by design and you are being replaced and the rest is details. This is the time to go back to God in utter and abject humility and ask Him to take you back and reform your ways and your society (starting first with oneself).

This, of course, is all predicated on belief – but if it is the reality – then it doesn’t matter whether you want to believe it or not.

Western society (and the White people who built it) has a ton of good things about it. It doesn’t lack technology or intelligence or literacy, etc. – it lacks meaning, people don’t have meaning any more – that’s why random useless activities like LARP are top-heavy with Whites. And if you think racial tribalism will give you the meaning that religion can’t, well – go for it is all I can say…and good luck, you’ll need it.

BBC reports that – in 1957 – the British and American leaders approved the use of Islamic extremists and false flag attacks to topple the Syrian government: Nearly 50 years before the war in Iraq, Britain and America sought a secretive “regime change” in another Arab country… by planning the invasion of Syria and the assassination of leading figures.

And the Imam, who was standing in front of the congregation, he said: “Allah has given us this country, and every knee will bow at the name of Allah.”

It is totally rational to want a peaceful neighborhood. To accomplish this, people have to be neighborly.

There are places in Sweden where Swedes are not welcome and cannot go – this is totally wrong – this is unacceptable. If Swedes were a bad people, this would be understandable – but that is not the case. Swedes are good neighbors – it is the Muslims who refuse to be good neighbors.

If someone refuses to be a neighbor – then they should leave the neighborhood.

People who cannot be good neighbors should not be accepted into the neighborhood.

This is rational and practical and human – end of story.

Peace --- Art

Hey Art,

Having been to Sweden, I can attest to Swedes being wonderful people. It is a shame that many Muslims there are behaving in a contemptible thug mentality. Either thy should reform or the Swedes should take immediate and swift measures to remove the trouble makers post haste to make an example of them that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

If the Nazis had minded their own business, it would have been grossly inappropriate for us to invade Germany to get rid of them - and unnecessary, since they were terrible managers and couldn't make their economy work without going to war footing.

Not only would dictating the ideological acceptability of every nation in the world - and trying to wipe out those that refused to comply with our demands - isn't just ethically and morally abhorrent. It's totally and completely pointless. We have nothing to gain, and a great deal to lose.

If the Nazis had minded their own business, it would have been grossly inappropriate for us to invade Germany to get rid of them – and unnecessary, since they were terrible managers and couldn’t make their economy work without going to war footing.

Now that’s an interesting take. What are your sources?

Do you think it’s appropriate for the suckers in the USA to send billions of $ to Israel every year? Is it merely tribute or are the Izzies such terrible managers that they need to be on welfare to make their economy work, or what?

Well maybe those “40 odd countries” that the Muslims have “to be their own” aren’t really “their’s to have on their own” due to decades on colonial conquest by these same “Western nations.”

This right-wing, hyper-nationalist bigotry is very difficult to understand.

But let’s test this hypothesis- let’s DO allow these Muslims (or Mexicans, or Guatemalans or…) to have their nation for themselves. Step one is to force all Western countries to get out of these nations, all of the weaponry, all of the proxies, all of the intelligence apparatus and all of the business class, all of the Western puppet governments- everything. Step two is that ALL of the resources that these nations possess are in the hands solely of those nations who will now be determining their won fate- this means indigenous self-determination.

The sheer hypocrisy and blatant racism is on full display here.

Muslim countries (“colonized” by Westerners or no) don’t reciprocate our generosity in any way. Time to pull up the welcome mat. Even a leftist should be able to understand the Golden Rule.

Corollary is that Muslims are far more racist than we are, what with far less tolerance for foreign immigration, no welcome mat, etc. Again, even a leftist should be able to understand this.

As for bombing these countries, you do understand that by your logic, if the Masters of the Universe want Muslim immigration and the populations they are supposed to represent do not, all they have to do is bomb/colonize/oppress Muslim countries, and presto, Muslims must be allowed to immigrate?

You do understand how wacko it is to insist on allowing people you’ve bombed to immigrate, right? Like swivel-eyed lunatic wacko?

(1) Europeans go full Ragnar Redbeard/Sven Battleaxe on these people and forcibly expel them (possible if the political will to shut off immigration has been summoned); (2) countries are partitioned into Christian and Muslim portions (also possible if immigration has been shut off); or (3) the Europeans gradually disappear into miscegenated “soup” and the nominally Christian people negotiate their dhimmi status with their Muslim overlords from a position of weakness.

(1a) European populations wake TF up and decide to encourage as many aliens as possible to leave, by making them uncomfortable: citizenship revoked, work status revoked, all gov’t services and aid revoked, etc., with rail tickets awaiting them at the nearest gov’t office.

(4) Europeans develop a Euro-racialist form of Islam, wherein they convert to Islam, but refuse to intermarry with non-European populations, much like crypto-Judaism in Spain, but without the hypocrisy/creepy secret rites. As many a sect has long lived under Islam while maintaining barriers to gene flow, there’s probably nothing in Islam stopping them.

That takes about five minutes, and I did it years ago. Libertardians are still too leftist to be helped, though. Too cowardly, too spergish and ideological, too infiltrated. I think their problem is, they have no core, no bedrock.

Fuck off with your anti Semitic thinking. That comes from Islam, and it’s a terrible worldview that shuts down critical thinking and replaces it with its Jews fault. Tldr: anti-Semitic = Islam supporter

“Anti-semitism” is pretty much a moral requirement at this point.

You seem to equate being an American with being smart or successful, and that certain peoples who collectively lack these traits must therefore be “un-American.” Which is false. America might not need these kinds of Americans in large numbers, but this does not mean that people who adopt American values (roughly – capitalism, democracy, Christian worldview) aren’t Americans.

Do you consider yourself to be more of an American than some swarthy guy of Sicilian ancestry who is proud of the USA, believes in the free market, a democratic system of government, has assimilated into a Protestant work ethic, speaks English, etc. (that is, his ancestors adopted the values that your ancestors created) because your family has lived here since the 1700s and his came over 200 years later?

That [learning something from libertarians] takes about five minutes, and I did it years ago. Libertardians are still too leftist to be helped, though.

I hope it was the right 5 minutes, then, Svigor. It shouldn't take more than 5 minutes, with some mulling it over later, to hear that big government in cahoots with big business is not necessarily going to do anything that the "people" want. Within the 4 minutes left, you could have heard that politicians in our government in particular do what the big donors want and can get away with this because the Fed-Gov't especially is too big to control. 90% or more of it's doings are not constitutional. You will not have your will done, per your posts, without the people getting control back, one way or another.

Yeah, you could definitely ignore what the rest of any libertard has to say besides the above, oh except the value of free markets.

Believe it or not but the Swedish problems is less about devout muslims and more about people trying hard to be Scarface. The muslim groups that were common until recently were Iranians, Kurds, Bosnians and Albanians. They weren't always perfectly integrated but they also weren't that good muslims either. Apart from a few maniacs most anti-immigration Swedes are mostly against the idea of a multicultural society. We don't particularly like the Christian Arabs and Assyrians either...

There's also the fact that until recently it was impossible to talk about this. The tide is turning fast in my country and it's visible to everyone. This is why MSM and some politicians are doubling down on their efforts. There are pockets of lunatics running towns and parts of government but it mostly looks like there will be much more pragmatism going forward.

If not today then after next election which is next year. First on the list to fix is the police and the incompetent police commissioner.

>>Believe it or not but the Swedish problems is less about devout muslims and more about people trying hard to be Scarface……They weren’t always perfectly integrated but they also weren’t that good muslims either.<<

Indulging in sex, drugs and ghetto culture is not incompatible with being a devout and "good" muslim. The most important thing for a "good" muslim is to spread Islam, by violence if necessary. In fact all the petty sins of indulgence, rape, fornication will be forgiven, and paradise awaits, if the "good" muslim commits himself to Jihad.

You constant harping on race are expressing a materialist mentality devoid of the metaphysical reality of the universe. Read again what Mike wrote – then read it again. If you do not believe it, it is fine – that is your right, but if it is true and America has become a moral cesspool then you are not fighting us Muslims or anybody else (we are irrelevant) – you have become a Pharoanic enterprise that is in rebellion – you are fighting God. You don’t win that fight.

Well, materialism sort of denies any metaphysical reality. That’s neither here nor there. On the other hand, I suggest that if you think materialist racialism is devoid of spirituality, you might want to try it, before you knock it. This shit will make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and dance, my friend. Try being slowly erased from existence as a catalyst to awakening.

I don’t particularly care if they want to genetically integrate with others or not, that’s their business

That isn’t really the question. The question is, do you support the right of humans to preserve their own ethnic-genetic makeup? If so, your choice of sides is clear, and there’s no neutral position.

This is why I opposed the Iraq war from the very beginning.

Fun fact: nobody opposed the Iraq War more loudly, or in higher percentages, than White Nationalists. I was on Stormfront when the rumors of that war started. WNs were in lockstep in opposing it. Seriously, like 99%. WNs who were in favor weren’t even a rounding error.

Well and good - my point is that a materialist's denial of its existence is irrelevant. If that metaphysical reality exists, it can well decide to deny the materialist his existence.

will make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and dance, my friend.

Quite so - I can get the same reaction out of my cat with a good jump-scare. This is the same reason why people ride roller coasters and get addicted to extreme sports...flight-or-fight. That rush can be incredible. Spiritual - it is not.

I'll never forget an interview I heard with a young White convert. When asked how it had changed her she mentioned that she was more patient and that she didn't fear death any more. When you transcend the material and animal needs or fears are no longer fetters, then we're talking.

The question is, do you support the right of humans to preserve their own ethnic-genetic makeup?

I have no problem with this - read my comments to WFBM. The better question is, do you support it? If you do, ditch materialism and promote ditching materialism as of yesterday. There is no better way to get your population to implode than with that philosophy - it has a proven track record. It is funny, but materialism sells the idea of survival of the fittest being the fundamental purpose of life - and yet, wherever you go, materialists are (on average) the ones least likely to care about propagating their genes - it is ironically a catalyst for complete failure according to its own yardstick.

If you have around 5 minutes...enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK2a-1K0Sdg

Who was the guy 2 years ago who crashed that Germanwings plane in Europe on purpose killing everyone onboard, was it Muhammad Ibn Andreas Lubitz lol??? Nope last I checked he wasn't a "muzzie", how selective the memories of some of you cucks on here are.

Was the German pilot screaming Allahu Akbar, Hail Mary or any other religious invocation? I didn’t think so. Last words matter when we look for a reason unless you just don’t want to know !

Ah yes - and we all know that is the 'Islamic thing' to do because a thoroughly Westernized playboy Egyptian did it. (sigh)

Of course, if you have a statement from a mufti from, say, the University of Azhar or Sarhanpur or Selangor, etc. (you know, the guys who make a living trying to figure out the 'Islamic thing' to do) that says the way to handle discipline at the job is to kill oneself and everyone else on a flight packed with Muslims - boy, will I have serious egg on my face (and that sucks, because try to get that stuff out of a beard - let me tell ya).

Logic - the other white meat.

Peace.

Note: Of course, going postal on the job might have been part of his Westernization - it seems it has been such a concern that my company recently had everyone undergo a mandatory 'Insider Threat Training' for potential workplace security and violence risks.

When the last words of the pilot are Allahu Akbar its not conventional insanity. It is religious insanity of a particular flavor.

Eric Idle...Terry Gilliam....Terry Jones...Michael Palin....John Cleese are all on board with 1) importing the MOHAMMADAN Gang Rape Army into Europe and America...2)War with Christian Russia...3)installing Hillary Clinton as POTUS ....I know this because I have been reading their tweets since last spring..

Michael Palin has been actively involved with resettling African Muslims in John Derbyshires' Merry Old England.

Monty Python=pure evil!!!

Monty Python=pure evil!!!

They always were, to be honest. Typical members of Britain’s cultural elite, hating and mocking every English tradition, despising the lower orders, smug and self-righteous. They were exactly the kinds of people who have spent the past half century destroying Britain.

Not hating or "minding" Islam is like not hating or minding Nazism and Communism. I suggest "the Derb" view Jared Taylor's video on Islam and Muslim immigration. Mohammad is arguably the worst monster in all of history. Hitler's "reign of terror" lasted only 12 years. The totalitarian repression and mass-murders of Lenin and Stalin and Mao lasted "only" a few decades. The uniquely hateful religion founded by "the Prophet" has lasted 14 centuries and will surely conquer and destroy all or most of Europe not by jihadist violence, defeated in the past at Tours and "the gates of Vienna," but by immigration and the fertility of Muslim women.

It doesn't matter if the people of France, Germany, Sweden, Holland, etc. , want to end Muslim immigration. The governing-classes and ruling-elites are evil and insane, as they are in the U.S. and Canada, and thus will never end the invasion of Muslims and other Africans who will ultimately and inexorably turn their countries into Muslim/non-white majority hell-holes.

Well said. The Islamic world must be forcibly democratized. The Iraq war failed only because it wasn’t ambitious enough. Muslims keep saying the West is waging a “war on Islam”, which is untrue–but it must become true. Every major Muslim country must be occupied and reorganized along secular liberal democratic lines. No price is too high for the achievement of this.

I hope you're not serious! To "democratize" the Islamic world would require the invasion of dozens of nations, including Pakistan (which has nuclear weapons), and the extermination of 60-70% of the male population: all the fanatics, misogynists, terrorists, potential terrorists, terrorist sympathizers, low-IQ criminals, etc.

The answer is separation, as "the Derb" proposes (but which will never happen): an end to Muslim immigration, forever, with a few rare exceptions; the deportation of nearly all Muslims from Europe and North Americs; and retreat from the Muslim world, no more women in combat boots in Muslim countries, etc. No more "invite-the-world/invade-the-world" in respect to Muslims and Islamic countries.

Not hating or "minding" Islam is like not hating or minding Nazism and Communism. I suggest "the Derb" view Jared Taylor's video on Islam and Muslim immigration. Mohammad is arguably the worst monster in all of history. Hitler's "reign of terror" lasted only 12 years. The totalitarian repression and mass-murders of Lenin and Stalin and Mao lasted "only" a few decades. The uniquely hateful religion founded by "the Prophet" has lasted 14 centuries and will surely conquer and destroy all or most of Europe not by jihadist violence, defeated in the past at Tours and "the gates of Vienna," but by immigration and the fertility of Muslim women.

It doesn't matter if the people of France, Germany, Sweden, Holland, etc. , want to end Muslim immigration. The governing-classes and ruling-elites are evil and insane, as they are in the U.S. and Canada, and thus will never end the invasion of Muslims and other Africans who will ultimately and inexorably turn their countries into Muslim/non-white majority hell-holes.

Islamic immigration is suicide to the west, or any non-Muslim country for that matter. Islam cannot co-exist with other peoples, cultures or religions. It is intolerant and predatory by its very nature.

It really doesn’t matter what the majority of Europeans think about the invasion. They won’t vote to stop it except in rare situations. Brexit and maybe the Dutch election will be wins for populists. The greatest fear western white people have is being called Nazis. They would rather their societies be destroyed than be called a Nazi.

at that point you would be Muslims and would rise to the top to rule over the...

...world possibly. Wow - a resurgent Muslim Europe - I mean like with actual Europeans at its head - what a sight!

I think a collective sigh of relief would go up from the entire Ummah if Muslim Europeans kicked out the Sauds and took control of the Hijaz. Hajj logistics being run by Swiss and German Muslims - makes me giddy just thinking about it!

Take the banner that we've dropped...no problems here! Let the sun arise in the West!

Peace.

“…. if Muslim Europeans kicked out the Sauds and took control of the Hijaz. Hajj logistics being run by Swiss and German Muslims – makes me giddy just thinking about it!”

There’s no such thing as a Swiss or German Muslim, haji. There are just Muslims currently squatting in Switzerland and Germany (and the U.S., U.K. etc. etc.) that need to be kicked out.

Who was the guy 2 years ago who crashed that Germanwings plane in Europe on purpose killing everyone onboard, was it Muhammad Ibn Andreas Lubitz lol??? Nope last I checked he wasn't a "muzzie", how selective the memories of some of you cucks on here are.

This is a childish and specious argument. Does proportion not matter? How many terrorist incidents have been caused by ethnic Germans compared to Muslims?

Or to put it another way; Geneva has murders. Baltimore has murders. Are they equally violent cities?

Farge refuses to embrace nationalism. You refuse to embace ethno-nationalism.

By default, nationalism doesn't work without a nation. I simply don't believe that "American" means much anymore. Are the Mexican in East LA and theYankee in Maine really members of the same nation? Sure, they're citizens of the same formal entity called the United States of America, but are they of the same nation?

The African immigrant in Atlanta and the white lady in Minnesota? The Puerto Rican in NYC and the Chinese lady in San Francisco?

I could go on and on, but you get the point. The United States has become an economic zone with a boarding house attached. That's not much to hang your nationalism hat on.

The country has become too racially, ethnically, culturally and religiously diverse for nationalism to work. Proposition nations don't last.

I hope that I'm wrong, but history says that I'm right. I may be a harbinger of the future. Fifteen years ago, I was your typical libertarian Republican who generally believed in the stardard line of thought. Now, I'm an ethno-nationalist along the lines of Ramzpaul, i.e. ethno-nationalism is about loving you're own family not hating others. I'm a fairly normal guy who likely just accidentally got introduced to the HBD/alt-right scene a bit earlier than most, but if I can change my thinking this much, this fast, so can many others.

We'll see.

but if I can change my thinking this much, this fast, so can many others.

Yes.

Case in point: I’m Danish and my octogenarian mother, a lifelong liberal, has gone alt-right/etno-nationalist inside five years. She isn’t on the internet in any real sense except using it for email and extended access to MSM and I haven’t preached to her. Much. But she sees what’s happening and she’s horrified about what Denmark will look like when her grandchildren grow up.

Mind you, she’s still a socialist economically, but she’s all onboard with taking Denmark out of the EU and sending home every goddamn Mohammadan in Europe.

Someone wrote upthread that we must woo the liberals and I believe that’s right. Socialism can be rolled back relatively easily – just look at the Soviet Union – but demographics can’t, except with lots of bloodshed and fascism involved.

The new major fault line in politics won’t be socialist/capitalist, it’ll be nationalist/globalist, because demographics is more important than economics. Much more important.

You constant harping on race are expressing a materialist mentality devoid of the metaphysical reality of the universe. Read again what Mike wrote – then read it again. If you do not believe it, it is fine – that is your right, but if it is true and America has become a moral cesspool then you are not fighting us Muslims or anybody else (we are irrelevant) – you have become a Pharoanic enterprise that is in rebellion – you are fighting God. You don’t win that fight.

Well, materialism sort of denies any metaphysical reality. That's neither here nor there. On the other hand, I suggest that if you think materialist racialism is devoid of spirituality, you might want to try it, before you knock it. This shit will make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and dance, my friend. Try being slowly erased from existence as a catalyst to awakening.

I don’t particularly care if they want to genetically integrate with others or not, that’s their business

That isn't really the question. The question is, do you support the right of humans to preserve their own ethnic-genetic makeup? If so, your choice of sides is clear, and there's no neutral position.

This is why I opposed the Iraq war from the very beginning.

Fun fact: nobody opposed the Iraq War more loudly, or in higher percentages, than White Nationalists. I was on Stormfront when the rumors of that war started. WNs were in lockstep in opposing it. Seriously, like 99%. WNs who were in favor weren't even a rounding error.

Hey Svigor,

Well, materialism sort of denies any metaphysical reality.

Well and good – my point is that a materialist’s denial of its existence is irrelevant. If that metaphysical reality exists, it can well decide to deny the materialist his existence.

will make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and dance, my friend.

Quite so – I can get the same reaction out of my cat with a good jump-scare. This is the same reason why people ride roller coasters and get addicted to extreme sports…flight-or-fight. That rush can be incredible. Spiritual – it is not.

I’ll never forget an interview I heard with a young White convert. When asked how it had changed her she mentioned that she was more patient and that she didn’t fear death any more. When you transcend the material and animal needs or fears are no longer fetters, then we’re talking.

The question is, do you support the right of humans to preserve their own ethnic-genetic makeup?

I have no problem with this – read my comments to WFBM. The better question is, do you support it? If you do, ditch materialism and promote ditching materialism as of yesterday. There is no better way to get your population to implode than with that philosophy – it has a proven track record. It is funny, but materialism sells the idea of survival of the fittest being the fundamental purpose of life – and yet, wherever you go, materialists are (on average) the ones least likely to care about propagating their genes – it is ironically a catalyst for complete failure according to its own yardstick.

Islamic immigration is suicide to the west, or any non-Muslim country for that matter. Islam cannot co-exist with other peoples, cultures or religions. It is intolerant and predatory by its very nature.

Ah yes - and we all know that is the 'Islamic thing' to do because a thoroughly Westernized playboy Egyptian did it. (sigh)

Of course, if you have a statement from a mufti from, say, the University of Azhar or Sarhanpur or Selangor, etc. (you know, the guys who make a living trying to figure out the 'Islamic thing' to do) that says the way to handle discipline at the job is to kill oneself and everyone else on a flight packed with Muslims - boy, will I have serious egg on my face (and that sucks, because try to get that stuff out of a beard - let me tell ya).

Logic - the other white meat.

Peace.

Note: Of course, going postal on the job might have been part of his Westernization - it seems it has been such a concern that my company recently had everyone undergo a mandatory 'Insider Threat Training' for potential workplace security and violence risks.

Is it fair to say Muslims have a global monopoly on mass-casualty suicide events? Secreting poison on the skin is still a “poison dart frog thing” even though it’s not condoned by any priesthood.

Is it fair to say Muslims have a global monopoly on mass-casualty suicide events?

At this point - totally. The Japanese haven't done it since the war and the Tamil Tigers are out of the running so yeah.

I agree with you, we've got to pull that statistic waaay back. Also, we have to work on reigning in our extremists in general - it is a major, major problem.

If you have the time, Shaykh Muhammad Akiti (a Malay Mufti of the Shafi'i school - also teaches at Oxford) wrote a fatwa about this and pointed out that when this phenomenon first started rearing its head in the Muslim world, it was roundly denounced:
"To put it plainly, there is simply no legal precedent in the history of Sunni Islam for the tactic of attacking civilians and overtly non-military targets. Yet the awful reality today is that a minority of Sunni Muslims, whether in Iraq or Beslan or elsewhere, have perpetuated such acts in the name of Jihad and on behalf of the Umma. Perhaps the first such mission to break this long and admirable precedent was the Hamas bombing on a public bus in Jerusalem in 1994 – not that long ago. (Ponder about this fact!) Immediately after the incident, the almost unanimous response of the orthodox Shafi’i jurists from the Far East and the Hadramawt was not only to make clear that the minimum legal position from our Sacred Law is untenable, but also to warn the Umma that by going down that path we would be compromising the optimum way of Ihsan and that we would thereby be running a real risk of losing the moral and religious high ground. Those who still defend this tactic, invoking blindly a nebulous usuli principle that it is justifiable out of darura while ignoring the far’i strictures, must look long and hard at what they are doing and ask the question: was it absolutely necessary, and if so, why was this not done before 1994, and especially during the earlier wars, most of all during the disasters of 1948 and 1967?"
http://masud.co.uk/defending-the-civilians-mudafi-al-mazlum-shaykh-muhammad-afifi-al-akitis-fatwa-on-suicide-bombings/

Really, the only ones defending suicide bombing at this point are some of those in the Salafi/Wahhabi camp - even some of their top scholars have denounced it:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/12/saudi-grand-mufti-condemns-suicide-attacks-2013121212591487117.html

But that's the problem with extremists; they ignore the normative voice - that's what gives them their name.

Is it fair to say Muslims have a global monopoly on mass-casualty suicide events? Secreting poison on the skin is still a "poison dart frog thing" even though it's not condoned by any priesthood.

Hey NP,

Is it fair to say Muslims have a global monopoly on mass-casualty suicide events?

At this point – totally. The Japanese haven’t done it since the war and the Tamil Tigers are out of the running so yeah.

I agree with you, we’ve got to pull that statistic waaay back. Also, we have to work on reigning in our extremists in general – it is a major, major problem.

If you have the time, Shaykh Muhammad Akiti (a Malay Mufti of the Shafi’i school – also teaches at Oxford) wrote a fatwa about this and pointed out that when this phenomenon first started rearing its head in the Muslim world, it was roundly denounced:
“To put it plainly, there is simply no legal precedent in the history of Sunni Islam for the tactic of attacking civilians and overtly non-military targets. Yet the awful reality today is that a minority of Sunni Muslims, whether in Iraq or Beslan or elsewhere, have perpetuated such acts in the name of Jihad and on behalf of the Umma. Perhaps the first such mission to break this long and admirable precedent was the Hamas bombing on a public bus in Jerusalem in 1994 – not that long ago. (Ponder about this fact!) Immediately after the incident, the almost unanimous response of the orthodox Shafi’i jurists from the Far East and the Hadramawt was not only to make clear that the minimum legal position from our Sacred Law is untenable, but also to warn the Umma that by going down that path we would be compromising the optimum way of Ihsan and that we would thereby be running a real risk of losing the moral and religious high ground. Those who still defend this tactic, invoking blindly a nebulous usuli principle that it is justifiable out of darura while ignoring the far’i strictures, must look long and hard at what they are doing and ask the question: was it absolutely necessary, and if so, why was this not done before 1994, and especially during the earlier wars, most of all during the disasters of 1948 and 1967?”

Just one note - if the insinuation is that Muslims are simply inordinately violent. Well I guess someone completely unread on European history could come to that conclusion. I mean sure, Europeans could renege on current legal guarantees and framework and kick out Muslim and other non-European citizens - that wouldn't actually surprise me since that has precedent in European history.

Now if they think that will magically solve things, they should take a long hard look at this map about the geographical locations of all recorded battles in human history:
http://battles.nodegoat.net/viewer.p/23/385/scenario/1/geo/fullscreen

See any patterns there? Without the darkies around they can go back to their historic continental past time - there is nobody better at depopulating Europe than Europeans.

Is it fair to say Muslims have a global monopoly on mass-casualty suicide events?

At this point - totally. The Japanese haven't done it since the war and the Tamil Tigers are out of the running so yeah.

I agree with you, we've got to pull that statistic waaay back. Also, we have to work on reigning in our extremists in general - it is a major, major problem.

If you have the time, Shaykh Muhammad Akiti (a Malay Mufti of the Shafi'i school - also teaches at Oxford) wrote a fatwa about this and pointed out that when this phenomenon first started rearing its head in the Muslim world, it was roundly denounced:
"To put it plainly, there is simply no legal precedent in the history of Sunni Islam for the tactic of attacking civilians and overtly non-military targets. Yet the awful reality today is that a minority of Sunni Muslims, whether in Iraq or Beslan or elsewhere, have perpetuated such acts in the name of Jihad and on behalf of the Umma. Perhaps the first such mission to break this long and admirable precedent was the Hamas bombing on a public bus in Jerusalem in 1994 – not that long ago. (Ponder about this fact!) Immediately after the incident, the almost unanimous response of the orthodox Shafi’i jurists from the Far East and the Hadramawt was not only to make clear that the minimum legal position from our Sacred Law is untenable, but also to warn the Umma that by going down that path we would be compromising the optimum way of Ihsan and that we would thereby be running a real risk of losing the moral and religious high ground. Those who still defend this tactic, invoking blindly a nebulous usuli principle that it is justifiable out of darura while ignoring the far’i strictures, must look long and hard at what they are doing and ask the question: was it absolutely necessary, and if so, why was this not done before 1994, and especially during the earlier wars, most of all during the disasters of 1948 and 1967?"
http://masud.co.uk/defending-the-civilians-mudafi-al-mazlum-shaykh-muhammad-afifi-al-akitis-fatwa-on-suicide-bombings/

Really, the only ones defending suicide bombing at this point are some of those in the Salafi/Wahhabi camp - even some of their top scholars have denounced it:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/12/saudi-grand-mufti-condemns-suicide-attacks-2013121212591487117.html

But that's the problem with extremists; they ignore the normative voice - that's what gives them their name.

Peace.

Just one note – if the insinuation is that Muslims are simply inordinately violent. Well I guess someone completely unread on European history could come to that conclusion. I mean sure, Europeans could renege on current legal guarantees and framework and kick out Muslim and other non-European citizens – that wouldn’t actually surprise me since that has precedent in European history.

Now if they think that will magically solve things, they should take a long hard look at this map about the geographical locations of all recorded battles in human history:

Just one note – if the insinuation is that Muslims are simply inordinately violent. Well I guess someone completely unread on European history could come to that conclusion.

You're surely not suggesting that Europeans are capable of appalling acts of violence? Just because Europeans slaughtered ten million or so fellow Europeans in the First World War and another sixty million or so in WW2?

The problem is that humans always like to reduce things to a nice simplistic Good Guys vs Bad Guys scenario. For the Old Left the proletarians were the Good Guys and the bourgeoisie were the Bad Guys. For the New Left an assortment of victim groups are the Good Guys and white heterosexual males are the Bad Guys. For the Alt Right white people are the Good Guys and blacks and Muslims are the Bad Guys.

All these ideologies are equally irrational. But that's because people are not very rational. And people don't like to admit that anything could be their own fault. Europeans have committed cultural and social suicide but the Alt Right has found the answer - we'll blame someone else.

In America you'd have gotten high AGREE numbers with an honest poll even years ago - AGREE meaning "all further moslem immigration should be stopped". Even in Europe I doubt any country's "people" ever wholeheartedly wanted moslem immigration, they just like to show a lot of "tolerance".

However, what "the people" want and what happens are two different things. This is why the conservatives, including especially the immigration patriots here and VDare, Takimag, etc. ought not to rule out Libertarians as allies. Don't blow them off as kooks, unless they write for Reason magazine or govern the state of New Mexico (those ones are truly kooks). I'm referring to the Constitutionalist types and general American Patriots.

Let me put it succinctly - if you don't care about big government, you have no right to complain if your the government doesn't care anymore what "the people" want and does whatever the Deep State, donors, bureaucrats and Big Business want. This is true for the immigration disaster as well as anything else. Right now, about all national governments around the world are out of control - our Feral Gov't is an egregious example, and it needs to be cut down to size before anything good can be guaranteed to happen. Who do you want in charge?

Libertarians can mouth a few useful ideas but sooner than later three things will happen:

1. They will play their traditional role as spoiler in the election and hand the winning margin to the left;

2. They’ll slobber over open borders and pot legalization; and

3. The guy wearing the jock strap will get up on the stage and dance.

I can’t think of a more useless bunch to make into our blood brothers.

White working people and patriotic, aware people of any ethnicity who are not stupid are key, but mainly whites. We were 90% of the population and we need to fight back against those who say whites are illegitimate, just as the minorities and ultra left are saying about Trump. We’re”privileged”? In our own country?

Foreigners don’t belong in this country, especially Muslims. Illegals are deportable regardless if they’ve spent 30 years or three months here.

This is strong stuff that will make the decent and amazing Mr. Farage blench. God bless him but he did his best to distance himself from Le Pen. He’s basically useless in the fight against Western elite betrayal. He just can’t go beyond his magnificent first step.

Just like HRH Elizabeth is useless. She’s seen her people betrayed and not uttered one word. Not one blinking word. At least she’s had the decency to hang on as long as possible to keep her simpleton son from taking over.

Even that great caller to Farage’s show didn’t go far enough. He still thinks those who’ve “integrated” can stay. The ONLY “Asians” who have any claim to our sympathies are the Sikhs, the Hindus, and legal Hispanics who came with visas. Amnesties need to be undone as regretful stupidity on our part.

Bottom line: we need to have an end to the slobbering and mewling over foreigners.

I agree with the whole 2nd section of your post, Ace. It is obvious you didn't read or understand mine. Many libertarians want nothing to do with the Open Borders idea. Here is my main point, again:

You wrote "we need to do" this and "we need to do" that. Who is this we? If you mean the US Feral Gov't, well, Mr Derbyshire just got done describing how those people do not want what you (and I and a majority of Americans) want. It won't happen, because we DO NOT HAVE ANY CONTROL OF OUR GOVERNMENT, get it. If you want full control of your government, that government must be very small - that's the only way. If you want the government to be smaller and under control, you are a libertarian, whether that disgusts you or not.

Other than that what can "we" do? There are ways that involve taking power back other than via the Red Team vs. Blue Team ballot box every few years. Many people are expecting this - they call themselves (rightfully) patriots and constitutionalists.

.. and the Ghurkas. I bought one of Joanna's t-shirts ; the lettering peeled off in the wash.
Oh hello there, plucky little mountain warriors. Come on in. Welcome to the world of Brit ex-servicemen. Always was, ever shall be.

.. scrabbling for cheap food at Morrisons, or queuing outside the Citizens Advice Bureau? She will, after all, need to be housed and fed.

Farge refuses to embrace nationalism. You refuse to embace ethno-nationalism.

By default, nationalism doesn't work without a nation. I simply don't believe that "American" means much anymore. Are the Mexican in East LA and theYankee in Maine really members of the same nation? Sure, they're citizens of the same formal entity called the United States of America, but are they of the same nation?

The African immigrant in Atlanta and the white lady in Minnesota? The Puerto Rican in NYC and the Chinese lady in San Francisco?

I could go on and on, but you get the point. The United States has become an economic zone with a boarding house attached. That's not much to hang your nationalism hat on.

The country has become too racially, ethnically, culturally and religiously diverse for nationalism to work. Proposition nations don't last.

I hope that I'm wrong, but history says that I'm right. I may be a harbinger of the future. Fifteen years ago, I was your typical libertarian Republican who generally believed in the stardard line of thought. Now, I'm an ethno-nationalist along the lines of Ramzpaul, i.e. ethno-nationalism is about loving you're own family not hating others. I'm a fairly normal guy who likely just accidentally got introduced to the HBD/alt-right scene a bit earlier than most, but if I can change my thinking this much, this fast, so can many others.

We'll see.

God speed our economic collapse. Prosperity and the memory of it has made life with foreigners seem like a win-win proposition. It isn’t.

The presence of the Nation of Islam, MS-13, La Raza, MeCHa, dual-citizenship Jews, and CAIR, as well as the appearance of even one news story about the knockout “game,” Southside Chicago violence, or Channon Christian and Chris Newsome are indicators of a terminal disease.

Hard times will eliminate the snowflakes and stiffen the resolve of the somnolent. Our Norman Rockwell moment has come and gone.

>> A great many other people, though—including this one—don’t mind Islam at all.....

You are full of shit, Derb. You hate and fear Islam as much as much as (more than..) anybody else, or the matter would not preoccupy so much of your time and thought. Your assumed diffidence is just your way of signaling your superiority to the rest of us. Get over it. Climb down. The time is getting late. We don't need faithless foot-draggers.

You are full of shit, Derb. You hate and fear Islam as much as much as (more than..) anybody else, or the matter would not preoccupy so much of your time and thought. Your assumed diffidence is just your way of signaling your superiority to the rest of us. Get over it. Climb down. The time is getting late. We don’t need faithless foot-draggers.

Good call. Derb is sharp enough to be able to read the Koran with googling and a little patience. He’s a mathematician, understanding how the Koran works is not exactly solving the Riemann hypothesis, (I googled “difficult mathematical problems”, and a bit later by chance I see there is a book by Derbyshire on the subject). Millions of IQ 80-90 people understand the basics of the Koran, I’m sure the Derb has worked it out.

In short there needs to be no living Muslims remaining in our countries. I’m agnostic on how it’s done. It’s only a shaving of the beard anyway. See the Battle of Lepanto.

It’s turning, though. Five years ago Le Pen, Wilders, and Farage were written off as extremist fringe candidates.

The really shocking and depressing thing is that support for nationalist parties is so low. The polls have Le Pen on 26 percent. That's dismal. That means 74 percent of French voters will vote for the destruction of their own country. The sad truth is that Wilders and Le Pen are still fringe candidates.

It's no good making excuses for Europeans. They want to be destroyed. They welcome it.

That is the essence of the problem. The salvationist parties in Europe struggle mightily for a mere 1% or 2% bump up in the votes. Decades have gone by and NOW that is still the case. Just what you describe.

Faithless elites and sellout media monopolies mean nothing if you encounter just one story of rape, parasitism, or Muslims using swimming pools as latrines. Just one is all an awake person needs.

But millions have been exposed to thousands of such stories and just lost all that makes them humans. They cower before savagery and dispossession and turn on leaders who stand up. Bohica is their watchword.

That is the essence of the problem. The salvationist parties in Europe struggle mightily for a mere 1% or 2% bump up in the votes. Decades have gone by and NOW that is still the case. Just what you describe.

The problem with France isn't Muslims. The problem is the French. The problem with Britain isn't Muslims. The problem is the British. The problem with Sweden isn't Muslims. It's the Swedes.

Europeans have made their choice. They've chosen consumerism, hedonism, sexual degeneracy and American pop culture trash, all combined with a healthy dose of virtue-signalling and self-righteousness. Europeans have chosen to flush their own civilisation down the toilet. It's isn't Islam that has destroyed Europe. It's liberalism.

Given the choice between liberalism and Islam, I'll take Islam.

If Europe wants to survive then Europeans have to rebuild a civilisation that would be worth saving.

Well maybe those "40 odd countries" that the Muslims have "to be their own" aren't really "their's to have on their own" due to decades on colonial conquest by these same "Western nations."

This right-wing, hyper-nationalist bigotry is very difficult to understand.

But let's test this hypothesis- let's DO allow these Muslims (or Mexicans, or Guatemalans or...) to have their nation for themselves. Step one is to force all Western countries to get out of these nations, all of the weaponry, all of the proxies, all of the intelligence apparatus and all of the business class, all of the Western puppet governments- everything. Step two is that ALL of the resources that these nations possess are in the hands solely of those nations who will now be determining their won fate- this means indigenous self-determination.

The sheer hypocrisy and blatant racism is on full display here.

The sheer hypocrisy and blatant racism is on full display here.

If I have a choice to be the who or the whom, I’ll be the who every time no question. In the words of Paul Simon:

That's all fine but adds nothing to your argument casting a people that have by far been at the receiving end of our violence as the Gang Rape Mohammadens. For better or worse, most Muslims have more respect for the Sacred and Christianity than the decadent whites of America who have allowed the Jews to desecrate their religion. and could give two shits about a Jesus.

Muslims are very respectful when the burn down Christian churches, pull out the toenails of converts to Christianity, and murder Copts.

Eric Idle...Terry Gilliam....Terry Jones...Michael Palin....John Cleese are all on board with 1) importing the MOHAMMADAN Gang Rape Army into Europe and America...2)War with Christian Russia...3)installing Hillary Clinton as POTUS ....I know this because I have been reading their tweets since last spring..

Michael Palin has been actively involved with resettling African Muslims in John Derbyshires' Merry Old England.

Monty Python=pure evil!!!

A few years back he had nothing but disdain for the awesome (sic) patriot (sic) Sarah Palin.

Lately he observed how he wasn’t sure London was even British anymore but it seemed to strike him as some kind of curious development. Certainly not something to rouse a proper Briton to white-hot fury.

John Cleese is a degenerate...Cleese had what looks full blown intercourse in THE MEANING OF LIVE....and a FISH CALLED WANDA....at a time when he his daughters were young girls.

I not surprised that his youngest daughter Camilla Cleese...standup comic in 2017...was a psycho-slut-drug addict at her Chicago private High School...and I have no doubt that Camilla Cleese is still a screwed up psycho-slut.

Graham Chapman was known to be a pedophile...which didn't bother Michael Palin who used to pick him up in the morning and drive the hung over pedophile to Python script writing sessions.

Probably not coming. If the West thinks it's fine to have people publicly denigrate the Son of Mary (pbuh) in their midst in the name of freedom - go for it. As far as apostates - you have already expressed that anyone who converts to Islam in the West needs to be kicked out - so come back when I can take you seriously.

And of swearing false oaths to protect and defend the Constitution.

This one is tricky: 1) first off, according to the sacred law, we are guests here - terms like 'citizen', 'resident', are terms (and apparently quite malleable) of the Western nation-state framework -so strip us of official citizenship and 2) have you read the rules of the Constitution - it changes, anybody can swear fealty to it, if there is a 80% Muslim super-majority, it can be ammended - according to its own rules.

Third, again, please don't make me laugh about your commitment to the Constitution - c'mon, let's be serious - stripping citizens who have committed no crimes of their rights? Expulsion of people based on religion? LOL! Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Ace!

And of honor killings.

There are numerous fatwas against this - I cited one a long time ago from a mufti I know personally:
“The concept of honor killing has no basis in Islam. In fact, it is a major crime. A person guilty of honor killing will be put to death in an Islamic state where the qādi (judge) has the right to regulate and implement capital punishment.”

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/81335

Hell, it's so well known that Britannica knows this:
“Within many Islamic countries the extra-judicial killing of persons by members of their own families for real or perceived moral infractions has been relatively common. Such ‘honour killings’ are in fact violations of both civil and Islamic law, but perpetrators frequently use religious reasons to defend their actions, thereby giving the crime a veneer of justification.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/punishment#ref=ref991101

And of pedophilia.

LOL! Man you are going after all the talking points - aren't you. Pedophilia isn't allowed and hasn't been - I've dealt with it enough on threads where you have been present. Don't be lazy, search through my archives.

And of burning POWs alive.

Sigh - this was roundly denounced by all scholars - even major Salafi ones - the fact that you are unaware is irrelevant.

And chopping off the heads of Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia.

Oh yeah - that is obviously permissible - LOL! I mean you totally got us - I'm going to go cry in a corner now.

Seriously, I'm going to put you on my "don't waste my time" list. Please engage me in discourse that is not so juvenile. Otherwise - DWMT.

A few years back he had nothing but disdain for the awesome (sic) patriot (sic) Sarah Palin.

Lately he observed how he wasn't sure London was even British anymore but it seemed to strike him as some kind of curious development. Certainly not something to rouse a proper Briton to white-hot fury.

but if I can change my thinking this much, this fast, so can many others.

Yes.

Case in point: I'm Danish and my octogenarian mother, a lifelong liberal, has gone alt-right/etno-nationalist inside five years. She isn't on the internet in any real sense except using it for email and extended access to MSM and I haven't preached to her. Much. But she sees what's happening and she's horrified about what Denmark will look like when her grandchildren grow up.

Mind you, she's still a socialist economically, but she's all onboard with taking Denmark out of the EU and sending home every goddamn Mohammadan in Europe.

Someone wrote upthread that we must woo the liberals and I believe that's right. Socialism can be rolled back relatively easily - just look at the Soviet Union - but demographics can't, except with lots of bloodshed and fascism involved.

The new major fault line in politics won't be socialist/capitalist, it'll be nationalist/globalist, because demographics is more important than economics. Much more important.

The new major fault line in politics won’t be socialist/capitalist, it’ll be nationalist/globalist, because demographics is more important than economics. Much more important.

Libertarians can mouth a few useful ideas but sooner than later three things will happen:

1. They will play their traditional role as spoiler in the election and hand the winning margin to the left;

2. They'll slobber over open borders and pot legalization; and

3. The guy wearing the jock strap will get up on the stage and dance.

I can't think of a more useless bunch to make into our blood brothers.

White working people and patriotic, aware people of any ethnicity who are not stupid are key, but mainly whites. We were 90% of the population and we need to fight back against those who say whites are illegitimate, just as the minorities and ultra left are saying about Trump. We're"privileged"? In our own country?

Foreigners don't belong in this country, especially Muslims. Illegals are deportable regardless if they've spent 30 years or three months here.

This is strong stuff that will make the decent and amazing Mr. Farage blench. God bless him but he did his best to distance himself from Le Pen. He's basically useless in the fight against Western elite betrayal. He just can't go beyond his magnificent first step.

Just like HRH Elizabeth is useless. She's seen her people betrayed and not uttered one word. Not one blinking word. At least she's had the decency to hang on as long as possible to keep her simpleton son from taking over.

Even that great caller to Farage's show didn't go far enough. He still thinks those who've "integrated" can stay. The ONLY "Asians" who have any claim to our sympathies are the Sikhs, the Hindus, and legal Hispanics who came with visas. Amnesties need to be undone as regretful stupidity on our part.

Bottom line: we need to have an end to the slobbering and mewling over foreigners.

But we have that and put up with it still.

I agree with the whole 2nd section of your post, Ace. It is obvious you didn’t read or understand mine. Many libertarians want nothing to do with the Open Borders idea. Here is my main point, again:

You wrote “we need to do” this and “we need to do” that. Who is this we? If you mean the US Feral Gov’t, well, Mr Derbyshire just got done describing how those people do not want what you (and I and a majority of Americans) want. It won’t happen, because we DO NOT HAVE ANY CONTROL OF OUR GOVERNMENT, get it. If you want full control of your government, that government must be very small – that’s the only way. If you want the government to be smaller and under control, you are a libertarian, whether that disgusts you or not.

Other than that what can “we” do? There are ways that involve taking power back other than via the Red Team vs. Blue Team ballot box every few years. Many people are expecting this – they call themselves (rightfully) patriots and constitutionalists.

I don't see where I failed to understand you. You suggested that we "ought not to rule out Libertarians as allies. Don’t blow them off as kooks" and my response was to point out that they are not reliable allies. John Stossel has done great work and makes a lot of sense but I see him as having to moderate his true libertarian views to allow him to make programs for Fox (until recently).

We seem to disagree on the meaning of libertarian. I think you argue for a meaning that is not accurate. People who want a return to constitutional government and the rule of law are not libertarians in the sense that word is used today.

So thus we agree on the danger of unchecked government but libertarians as I understand that term can't be relied upon to stay on message and are almost certain to drift off into stupidity or an alliance with the left by playing the spoiler role.

I await the fatwa about the impermissibility of crashing aircraft in order to deal with problems with the boss.

And of killing blasphemers and apostates.

And of swearing false oaths to protect and defend the Constitution.

And of honor killings.

And of pedophilia.

And of burning POWs alive.

And chopping off the heads of Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia.

Hey Ace,

And of killing blasphemers and apostates.

Probably not coming. If the West thinks it’s fine to have people publicly denigrate the Son of Mary (pbuh) in their midst in the name of freedom – go for it. As far as apostates – you have already expressed that anyone who converts to Islam in the West needs to be kicked out – so come back when I can take you seriously.

And of swearing false oaths to protect and defend the Constitution.

This one is tricky: 1) first off, according to the sacred law, we are guests here – terms like ‘citizen’, ‘resident’, are terms (and apparently quite malleable) of the Western nation-state framework -so strip us of official citizenship and 2) have you read the rules of the Constitution – it changes, anybody can swear fealty to it, if there is a 80% Muslim super-majority, it can be ammended – according to its own rules.

Third, again, please don’t make me laugh about your commitment to the Constitution – c’mon, let’s be serious – stripping citizens who have committed no crimes of their rights? Expulsion of people based on religion? LOL! Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Ace!

And of honor killings.

There are numerous fatwas against this – I cited one a long time ago from a mufti I know personally:
“The concept of honor killing has no basis in Islam. In fact, it is a major crime. A person guilty of honor killing will be put to death in an Islamic state where the qādi (judge) has the right to regulate and implement capital punishment.”

Hell, it’s so well known that Britannica knows this:
“Within many Islamic countries the extra-judicial killing of persons by members of their own families for real or perceived moral infractions has been relatively common. Such ‘honour killings’ are in fact violations of both civil and Islamic law, but perpetrators frequently use religious reasons to defend their actions, thereby giving the crime a veneer of justification.”

LOL! Man you are going after all the talking points – aren’t you. Pedophilia isn’t allowed and hasn’t been – I’ve dealt with it enough on threads where you have been present. Don’t be lazy, search through my archives.

And of burning POWs alive.

Sigh – this was roundly denounced by all scholars – even major Salafi ones – the fact that you are unaware is irrelevant.

And chopping off the heads of Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia.

Oh yeah – that is obviously permissible – LOL! I mean you totally got us – I’m going to go cry in a corner now.

Seriously, I’m going to put you on my “don’t waste my time” list. Please engage me in discourse that is not so juvenile. Otherwise – DWMT.

Tahla, you keep ending your comments with "peace". I don't think most women understand the big picture of anything, and you are a good example. You want peace? We are getting farther and farther from peace the way things are going.

Putting large masses of entirely different cultures together is asking directly for bloodshed. Your excuses about "this is not written" in the Koran, there are no fatwas about this", whatever don't jive with reality, no matter how peace-loving you personally are, Tahla. Look up "immigrant mass murder syndrome / VDare.

Your feminine instincts are wrong when you infer that people are wrongfully touchy or just scaring themselves or others about Islam. It is more long-term thinking by men who can see what's coming and would rather avoid either servitude of their descendants or a large amount of bloodshed that will be required to stop it. It's time for the Western men to opt out of the feminization that they let themselves be a part of for 50 years, stop listening to any women and most people in governments about this, and start working solutions ASAP.

Extremism in defense of virtue is no vice, said a great Libertarian guy over 50 years ago.

The killing of apostates and blasphemers is quite popular in Pakistan. Those killers just seem to be convinced that they will be able to get away with killing those blasphemers. Why, thousands visited the grave of the man who rid Pakistan of that nuisance, Salman Taseer. As you can see from the picture in that link, Mr. Qadri's grave is very nicely decorated and those people who stand so reverently at the side of his grade look like very posh people to me. They must be "misunderstanders" of Islam. Who can doubt it?

Some brave people there oppose the bedrock Islamic principle of death for blasphemy but all such people swim against the tide. Just about anybody who suggests some sensible amelioration of the savagery of the Islamic way ends up with a bullet or a knife in him. To which you invariably respond, the scholars disapprove.

You're right that the Constitution can be amended. The point is that you "guests" here swear falsely at the time of your oath because you don't intend to offer salutary amendments to the Constitution at some later date but intend to do away with it entirely. So so much for "protect and defend." You're the proverbial dog in the manger.

I can't recall Koranic blessings upon honor killings but that doesn't mean they aren't there or inherent in the glorious overall scheme of eternal hostility to infidels and institutional mysoj . . . missogen . . . misohje . . . hatred of women. Your link bears out your point but note how adultery is there said to justify the killing of another and, lo and behold, this "council of elders" in Lanashire, U.K., held that a (future) killer had "the right to exact the death penalty on his neighbour’s children." They had disrespected him it appears. So the "council of elders" didn't give the future crime a "veneer of justification," it said it was A-OK. All official like. So let's skip the "the scholars are against it" mantra, please.

Pam Geller has a page on her web site about the popular practice of honor killings. If only your lot knew that honor killings are un-Islamic!

Yes, yes, yes. Pedophilia isn't allowed. Those girls under nine are as safe as can be. The Prophet (PBUH) said nine is the proper age for fun and games with mature men.

And then there's the pic of that Iranian mullah planting that big kiss on the lips of that young boy. And I do mean boy. Again, sorry I can't post pics here because it's really something to see.

Yup. The scholars "roundly denounce" just about everything that seems to make Islam so vile and retrograde but, Talha, it just keeps happening, my friend. So many misunderstanders again.

PS – I agreed with your point made in a response to another comment of mine. Something about Muslims are smart enough to make sure that hostile dhimmis don't get the upper hand. That's my point exactly about deporting Muslims. Solving problems before they become expensive to fix. I have to tell you I almost had a heart attack. My death will be on your conscience.

A few years back he had nothing but disdain for the awesome (sic) patriot (sic) Sarah Palin.

Lately he observed how he wasn't sure London was even British anymore but it seemed to strike him as some kind of curious development. Certainly not something to rouse a proper Briton to white-hot fury.

John Cleese is a degenerate…Cleese had what looks full blown intercourse in THE MEANING OF LIVE….and a FISH CALLED WANDA….at a time when he his daughters were young girls.

I not surprised that his youngest daughter Camilla Cleese…standup comic in 2017…was a psycho-slut-drug addict at her Chicago private High School…and I have no doubt that Camilla Cleese is still a screwed up psycho-slut.

Graham Chapman was known to be a pedophile…which didn’t bother Michael Palin who used to pick him up in the morning and drive the hung over pedophile to Python script writing sessions.

(1) Europeans go full Ragnar Redbeard/Sven Battleaxe on these people and forcibly expel them (possible if the political will to shut off immigration has been summoned); (2) countries are partitioned into Christian and Muslim portions (also possible if immigration has been shut off); or (3) the Europeans gradually disappear into miscegenated “soup” and the nominally Christian people negotiate their dhimmi status with their Muslim overlords from a position of weakness.

(1a) European populations wake TF up and decide to encourage as many aliens as possible to leave, by making them uncomfortable: citizenship revoked, work status revoked, all gov't services and aid revoked, etc., with rail tickets awaiting them at the nearest gov't office.

(4) Europeans develop a Euro-racialist form of Islam, wherein they convert to Islam, but refuse to intermarry with non-European populations, much like crypto-Judaism in Spain, but without the hypocrisy/creepy secret rites. As many a sect has long lived under Islam while maintaining barriers to gene flow, there's probably nothing in Islam stopping them.

That takes about five minutes, and I did it years ago. Libertardians are still too leftist to be helped, though. Too cowardly, too spergish and ideological, too infiltrated. I think their problem is, they have no core, no bedrock.

Fuck off with your anti Semitic thinking. That comes from Islam, and it’s a terrible worldview that shuts down critical thinking and replaces it with its Jews fault. Tldr: anti-Semitic = Islam supporter

"Anti-semitism" is pretty much a moral requirement at this point.

You seem to equate being an American with being smart or successful, and that certain peoples who collectively lack these traits must therefore be “un-American.” Which is false. America might not need these kinds of Americans in large numbers, but this does not mean that people who adopt American values (roughly – capitalism, democracy, Christian worldview) aren’t Americans.

Do you consider yourself to be more of an American than some swarthy guy of Sicilian ancestry who is proud of the USA, believes in the free market, a democratic system of government, has assimilated into a Protestant work ethic, speaks English, etc. (that is, his ancestors adopted the values that your ancestors created) because your family has lived here since the 1700s and his came over 200 years later?

Yes.

That [learning something from libertarians] takes about five minutes, and I did it years ago. Libertardians are still too leftist to be helped, though.

I hope it was the right 5 minutes, then, Svigor. It shouldn’t take more than 5 minutes, with some mulling it over later, to hear that big government in cahoots with big business is not necessarily going to do anything that the “people” want. Within the 4 minutes left, you could have heard that politicians in our government in particular do what the big donors want and can get away with this because the Fed-Gov’t especially is too big to control. 90% or more of it’s doings are not constitutional. You will not have your will done, per your posts, without the people getting control back, one way or another.

Yeah, you could definitely ignore what the rest of any libertard has to say besides the above, oh except the value of free markets.

Probably not coming. If the West thinks it's fine to have people publicly denigrate the Son of Mary (pbuh) in their midst in the name of freedom - go for it. As far as apostates - you have already expressed that anyone who converts to Islam in the West needs to be kicked out - so come back when I can take you seriously.

And of swearing false oaths to protect and defend the Constitution.

This one is tricky: 1) first off, according to the sacred law, we are guests here - terms like 'citizen', 'resident', are terms (and apparently quite malleable) of the Western nation-state framework -so strip us of official citizenship and 2) have you read the rules of the Constitution - it changes, anybody can swear fealty to it, if there is a 80% Muslim super-majority, it can be ammended - according to its own rules.

Third, again, please don't make me laugh about your commitment to the Constitution - c'mon, let's be serious - stripping citizens who have committed no crimes of their rights? Expulsion of people based on religion? LOL! Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Ace!

And of honor killings.

There are numerous fatwas against this - I cited one a long time ago from a mufti I know personally:
“The concept of honor killing has no basis in Islam. In fact, it is a major crime. A person guilty of honor killing will be put to death in an Islamic state where the qādi (judge) has the right to regulate and implement capital punishment.”

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/81335

Hell, it's so well known that Britannica knows this:
“Within many Islamic countries the extra-judicial killing of persons by members of their own families for real or perceived moral infractions has been relatively common. Such ‘honour killings’ are in fact violations of both civil and Islamic law, but perpetrators frequently use religious reasons to defend their actions, thereby giving the crime a veneer of justification.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/punishment#ref=ref991101

And of pedophilia.

LOL! Man you are going after all the talking points - aren't you. Pedophilia isn't allowed and hasn't been - I've dealt with it enough on threads where you have been present. Don't be lazy, search through my archives.

And of burning POWs alive.

Sigh - this was roundly denounced by all scholars - even major Salafi ones - the fact that you are unaware is irrelevant.

And chopping off the heads of Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia.

Oh yeah - that is obviously permissible - LOL! I mean you totally got us - I'm going to go cry in a corner now.

Seriously, I'm going to put you on my "don't waste my time" list. Please engage me in discourse that is not so juvenile. Otherwise - DWMT.

Peace.

Tahla, you keep ending your comments with “peace”. I don’t think most women understand the big picture of anything, and you are a good example. You want peace? We are getting farther and farther from peace the way things are going.

Putting large masses of entirely different cultures together is asking directly for bloodshed. Your excuses about “this is not written” in the Koran, there are no fatwas about this”, whatever don’t jive with reality, no matter how peace-loving you personally are, Tahla. Look up “immigrant mass murder syndrome / VDare.

Your feminine instincts are wrong when you infer that people are wrongfully touchy or just scaring themselves or others about Islam. It is more long-term thinking by men who can see what’s coming and would rather avoid either servitude of their descendants or a large amount of bloodshed that will be required to stop it. It’s time for the Western men to opt out of the feminization that they let themselves be a part of for 50 years, stop listening to any women and most people in governments about this, and start working solutions ASAP.

Extremism in defense of virtue is no vice, said a great Libertarian guy over 50 years ago.

Couple of things from the start:1) I'm a man, the name is a male name, but technical in the female form (there's a few of these in the Arabic language). I was named after this man (aka, 'The Living Martyr' and 'Falcon of Uhud'):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talhah (if I am fortunate enough, I hope to meet him in the next life)2) I'm a big fan of Libertarians; I was first brought here through Lew Rockwell, I love Ron Paul and admire the economic thought of Von Mises

Now, to matters...

You want peace?

I do - you don't? My signature is a sign-off and a prayer for the person I am addressing...or the Qur'anic imperative when dealing with nonsense - kills a lot of birds with one stone:"And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them; they say, 'Peace!" (25:63)

Putting large masses of entirely different cultures together is asking directly for bloodshed.

Not necessarily. It depends on the framework. If there is a free for all - then yes, more than likely, but ask yourself why Yugoslavia was stable under Tito or Iraq under Saddam. The Ottoman Empire holds the record for being the longest lasting continuous dynasty in world history 600+ years. They had a solid system of governance - and they were multi-racial, multi-cultural, multi-religious. In fact, their ability to manage those varieties to their advantage was what made them so formidable for so long. In fact, during the Thirty Years War, one of the safest places for Christians to flee to was the Ottoman Empire. Ottomans didn't mess around, they could absorb non-Muslim refugees easy - everyone knew their place; the Muslims were the alphas and the Ottomans were the alphas of the alphas. Non-Muslims were protected and could live and work, but threats to the prevailing order were not tolerated.

One might say - well, they eventually fell...uh yeah, name me one political framework that hasn't. All of them will fall eventually - utopia is a pipe dream.

If you said, we want to establish ethnic Whites as the alphas in order for stability - you'll hear no qualms from me - it's a system that has a far longer proven track record than our current one - in the current one, we're all guinea pigs.

Is that all feminine enough for you?

start working solutions ASAP

Read what I said to WFBM - come back to God and He will restore the greatness that you had. Otherwise, we are not the ones that will be replacing you, we're nobodies - you will be selected out for replacement by Him. It's His world, we only live in it. As I stated, if this is now a Pharoanic system, it will go down - if we are not the Moses (pbuh), someone else will be.

The Bosnians (White Muslims, for sure) in our local community are the most prolific bunch, four or more children for every family I know. They recently bought out a large abandoned Lutheran church. You have two options; 1) try these desperate measures to try to save your genetic heritage, 2) turn back and put your trust in Him, and He will take care of the rest.

Again, as I said to others, I'll leave once I get the official notice - I don't mind, I'm not going to beg massa' to keep me as a good house nigger. So you have nothing to sell to me - nor am I afraid (a great benefit one you've already chosen slavehood and place your head on the ground multiple times a day - I already know Who my Master is): "Those to whom men said: 'Surely the people have gathered against you, therefore fear them!', but this only increased their faith, and they said: 'Allah is sufficient for us and a most excellent Protector.'" (3:173)

But, I am offering you advice because, whether I'm here or not, I actually want to see your community prosper - I have nothing against Whites. If they can succeed as a community and rectify themselves, then the whole world will benefit. I am married to a White convert woman (Swedish stock) and I love my in-laws dearly and have a huge respect specifically for Swedes and am probably more familiar with their history than most of them are. But I also know that my Swedish in-laws don't care much for religion and within one generation, they will be halved.

Your excuses about “this is not written” in the Koran, there are no fatwas about this”, whatever don’t jive with reality

If you don't think our ulama are holding things back from getting worse, you haven't paid attention - we are nearly a quarter of the world's population. If we were all extremists - well, you haven't seen nothing yet. The extremists exist due to three major factors; 1) political instability, 2) the reach of the Salafi/Wahhabi interpretation and 3) general ignorance among the masses. When Muslims know their religion well, it is a buffer against extremism. The US and UK intelligence agencies know this:“Both findings indicate that the majority of the foreign fighters had limited familiarity with the tenets of the Islamic faith. This is consistent with the findings from the CTC’s earlier report, which showed that very small numbers of foreign fighters reported having any religious education and that approximately 70% of fighters reported having a basic knowledge of Shari`a law.... Moreover, our findings also correspond with primary sources indicating that jihadi groups in general prefer to recruit individuals who have limited religious education since they are less capable of critically scrutinizing the jihadi narrative and ideology, in addition to being less familiar with contrasting Islamic schools of thought.”

“Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1

As I said on another thread, I personally know 8 Sunni Orthodox muftis (qualified and credentialed) and have learned jurisprudence under 3 of them. All of these nonsense claims are juvenile in my eyes. We have extremists, yes and we are spilling our blood fighting them right now. If you want to have a serious read at a juristic take down of the claims of groups like Daesh, I suggest:http://www.refutingisis.com/

My best friend studied under him in Damascus.

Extremism in defense of virtue is no vice

Our extremists say the same thing - this is one of our problems. Too many Muslims have cast aside our principles for material gain. We were warned to guard against extremism from our Prophet (pbuh); we have our principles and moral imperatives and you have yours. I am hundred percent certain no victory or relief from our trials will come until we Muslims reform ourselves.

As for you...you think you can turn on extremism and then switch it off like a tap - people don't work like that. If you think a people who are ready to go 'Sven Battle-Axe' will simply return to life as usual after forcibly kicking out Muslims, you haven't thought things through. Look at that map I posted, then look at it again. And marvel that for the last few decades in history, the border between France and Germany has been quiet. This is taken for granted, but is actually an extreme anomaly - read European history. 'Sven Battle-Axe', was as formidable a warrior as one could ask for, serving as the elite guard of the Byzantine Emperors. But 'Sven' also used to raid the European coastline - sometimes as far as Scotland - enslaving White women and selling them down the Volga to Jews and Muslims.

Do you really, really think the changes made to the legal frameworks in European nations over the centuries were made with Muslims in mind - or to bring some semblance of order to continent that was constantly warring; over tribes, over heresies, over ...?

I suppose that you speak of the Moors in the Al-Andalus period, that is well-documented, although the Jewish servants of the Moors weren't quite the elite, tax collectors, at times regional governors to persecute the Christian populations, they are said to have been quite enthusiastic about the Moorish invasion in general at the time, obligingly opening city gates and all.

All well documented, and with definite echoes in the present day.

Yes, very true. But also on the spanish side. They were called Conversos, and they became (some) part of the nobility. For example, King Enrique wanted to marry off his sister, the future Isabel la Católica, to a Don Pedro (I forget his last name) brother to Pacheco, close counselor to the king, a dark figure, they were both Conversos. Isabel’s treasurer was jewish, married to her closest lady in waiting. Some were good spaniards, some accused of double dealing, some were popular because they were tax collectors. Isabel expelled them, as she expelled the moors. The jews then migrated to Low Countries and England and Portugal. Much suffering there, which they have not forgotten.

There’s a fantastic, rather recent tv series called “Isabel” you can watch it free on TVE (Tv Española). The bit about who was a converso is largely omitted, but it’s worth watching.

Tahla, you keep ending your comments with "peace". I don't think most women understand the big picture of anything, and you are a good example. You want peace? We are getting farther and farther from peace the way things are going.

Putting large masses of entirely different cultures together is asking directly for bloodshed. Your excuses about "this is not written" in the Koran, there are no fatwas about this", whatever don't jive with reality, no matter how peace-loving you personally are, Tahla. Look up "immigrant mass murder syndrome / VDare.

Your feminine instincts are wrong when you infer that people are wrongfully touchy or just scaring themselves or others about Islam. It is more long-term thinking by men who can see what's coming and would rather avoid either servitude of their descendants or a large amount of bloodshed that will be required to stop it. It's time for the Western men to opt out of the feminization that they let themselves be a part of for 50 years, stop listening to any women and most people in governments about this, and start working solutions ASAP.

Extremism in defense of virtue is no vice, said a great Libertarian guy over 50 years ago.

“I don’t think most women understand the big picture of anything, and you..”

Yeah, you could definitely ignore what the rest of any libertard has to say besides the above, oh except the value of free markets.

I am informed by many libertarian beliefs. I just think of libertarianism the way I think of capitalism; they’re useful tools, but I don’t want the -ism elevated to a ruling ideology, and I don’t think they’re good enough to qualify as a self-respecting person’s primary political label.

Well and good – my point is that a materialist’s denial of its existence is irrelevant. If that metaphysical reality exists, it can well decide to deny the materialist his existence.

Even less reason to respect that metaphysical reality. I don’t worship tyrants.

Quite so – I can get the same reaction out of my cat with a good jump-scare. This is the same reason why people ride roller coasters and get addicted to extreme sports…flight-or-fight. That rush can be incredible. Spiritual – it is not.

You’re conflating two different things. I’m not talking about an adrenaline rush.

I’ll never forget an interview I heard with a young White convert. When asked how it had changed her she mentioned that she was more patient and that she didn’t fear death any more. When you transcend the material and animal needs or fears are no longer fetters, then we’re talking.

That is what I’m talking about.

I have no problem with this – read my comments to WFBM. The better question is, do you support it? If you do, ditch materialism and promote ditching materialism as of yesterday. There is no better way to get your population to implode than with that philosophy – it has a proven track record. It is funny, but materialism sells the idea of survival of the fittest being the fundamental purpose of life – and yet, wherever you go, materialists are (on average) the ones least likely to care about propagating their genes – it is ironically a catalyst for complete failure according to its own yardstick.

Jews have been materialists for a long time, and they’ve done okay. But I don’t advocate materialism as a replacement for religion. I’m perfectly fine with people being religious (though I abhor leftist heresies), and I routinely defend religion.

The advantage of materialism is that people don’t sit quietly suffering on Earth, in expectation of their Heavenly reward. They fight in this life.

It is funny, but materialism sells the idea of survival of the fittest being the fundamental purpose of life – and yet, wherever you go, materialists are (on average) the ones least likely to care about propagating their genes – it is ironically a catalyst for complete failure according to its own yardstick.

No, materialism sells the idea of survival as being the fundamental purpose of life. Big difference.

Name a major American newspaper or television outlet controlled by Muslims.

I can name a major “American” Big Media outlet that carries water for Muslims: all of them.

I have no problem with this – read my comments to WFBM.

That’s not what I asked. You seem to be saying you’re indifferent to people’s right to maintain their own ethnic-genetic cohesion, which is the same as saying, “no, I don’t believe in people’s right to maintain their own ethnic-genetic cohesion.” Which is effectively throwing your support behind leftist globalist nation-destroying.

Neither do I. Justice is unimaginable for God - if one finds themselves in Hell - not a least of injustice was done to them. But, He created the universe and expects humans to fall in line - He gave you existence - that is reason enough:"He is not questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned." (21:23)

If you don't like this, ahem, power dynamic - make your case when you meet Him.

That is what I’m talking about.

You can't transcend the material if you are a materialist. You can claim to get feelings and stuff, but that's just neurons firing off - according to materialism.

They fight in this life.

Yup - that's actually what we are having a problem with right now. Being patient under oppression or difficulty is a specifically spiritual exercise. Our extremists don't want to understand that - they are at their core philosophy materialists and they haven't come to terms with it.

Big difference.

If you say so - details aside - it is still the most effective way to put birth rates into a nose dive. Like feminism or even homosexuality it seems, it will strangle itself. When I see materialists cranking out (at least) replacement rate children, I'll reconsider my assumptions. Aaaand, assuming all us darkies are given the boot - I still don't see the culture wars going away between materialist and religious Whites.

That’s not what I asked.

OK - then, yes. When I see materialism taking the steps to forward itself as a serious solution, then we can talk again - otherwise, y'all living on borrowed time.

Which is effectively throwing your support behind leftist globalist nation-destroying.

Tahla, you keep ending your comments with "peace". I don't think most women understand the big picture of anything, and you are a good example. You want peace? We are getting farther and farther from peace the way things are going.

Putting large masses of entirely different cultures together is asking directly for bloodshed. Your excuses about "this is not written" in the Koran, there are no fatwas about this", whatever don't jive with reality, no matter how peace-loving you personally are, Tahla. Look up "immigrant mass murder syndrome / VDare.

Your feminine instincts are wrong when you infer that people are wrongfully touchy or just scaring themselves or others about Islam. It is more long-term thinking by men who can see what's coming and would rather avoid either servitude of their descendants or a large amount of bloodshed that will be required to stop it. It's time for the Western men to opt out of the feminization that they let themselves be a part of for 50 years, stop listening to any women and most people in governments about this, and start working solutions ASAP.

Extremism in defense of virtue is no vice, said a great Libertarian guy over 50 years ago.

Hey AEN,

Couple of things from the start:
1) I’m a man, the name is a male name, but technical in the female form (there’s a few of these in the Arabic language). I was named after this man (aka, ‘The Living Martyr’ and ‘Falcon of Uhud’):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talhah (if I am fortunate enough, I hope to meet him in the next life)
2) I’m a big fan of Libertarians; I was first brought here through Lew Rockwell, I love Ron Paul and admire the economic thought of Von Mises

Now, to matters…

You want peace?

I do – you don’t? My signature is a sign-off and a prayer for the person I am addressing…or the Qur’anic imperative when dealing with nonsense – kills a lot of birds with one stone:
“And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them; they say, ‘Peace!” (25:63)

Putting large masses of entirely different cultures together is asking directly for bloodshed.

Not necessarily. It depends on the framework. If there is a free for all – then yes, more than likely, but ask yourself why Yugoslavia was stable under Tito or Iraq under Saddam. The Ottoman Empire holds the record for being the longest lasting continuous dynasty in world history 600+ years. They had a solid system of governance – and they were multi-racial, multi-cultural, multi-religious. In fact, their ability to manage those varieties to their advantage was what made them so formidable for so long. In fact, during the Thirty Years War, one of the safest places for Christians to flee to was the Ottoman Empire. Ottomans didn’t mess around, they could absorb non-Muslim refugees easy – everyone knew their place; the Muslims were the alphas and the Ottomans were the alphas of the alphas. Non-Muslims were protected and could live and work, but threats to the prevailing order were not tolerated.

One might say – well, they eventually fell…uh yeah, name me one political framework that hasn’t. All of them will fall eventually – utopia is a pipe dream.

If you said, we want to establish ethnic Whites as the alphas in order for stability – you’ll hear no qualms from me – it’s a system that has a far longer proven track record than our current one – in the current one, we’re all guinea pigs.

Is that all feminine enough for you?

start working solutions ASAP

Read what I said to WFBM – come back to God and He will restore the greatness that you had. Otherwise, we are not the ones that will be replacing you, we’re nobodies – you will be selected out for replacement by Him. It’s His world, we only live in it. As I stated, if this is now a Pharoanic system, it will go down – if we are not the Moses (pbuh), someone else will be.

The Bosnians (White Muslims, for sure) in our local community are the most prolific bunch, four or more children for every family I know. They recently bought out a large abandoned Lutheran church. You have two options; 1) try these desperate measures to try to save your genetic heritage, 2) turn back and put your trust in Him, and He will take care of the rest.

Again, as I said to others, I’ll leave once I get the official notice – I don’t mind, I’m not going to beg massa’ to keep me as a good house nigger. So you have nothing to sell to me – nor am I afraid (a great benefit one you’ve already chosen slavehood and place your head on the ground multiple times a day – I already know Who my Master is):
“Those to whom men said: ‘Surely the people have gathered against you, therefore fear them!’, but this only increased their faith, and they said: ‘Allah is sufficient for us and a most excellent Protector.’” (3:173)

But, I am offering you advice because, whether I’m here or not, I actually want to see your community prosper – I have nothing against Whites. If they can succeed as a community and rectify themselves, then the whole world will benefit. I am married to a White convert woman (Swedish stock) and I love my in-laws dearly and have a huge respect specifically for Swedes and am probably more familiar with their history than most of them are. But I also know that my Swedish in-laws don’t care much for religion and within one generation, they will be halved.

Your excuses about “this is not written” in the Koran, there are no fatwas about this”, whatever don’t jive with reality

If you don’t think our ulama are holding things back from getting worse, you haven’t paid attention – we are nearly a quarter of the world’s population. If we were all extremists – well, you haven’t seen nothing yet. The extremists exist due to three major factors; 1) political instability, 2) the reach of the Salafi/Wahhabi interpretation and 3) general ignorance among the masses. When Muslims know their religion well, it is a buffer against extremism. The US and UK intelligence agencies know this:
“Both findings indicate that the majority of the foreign fighters had limited familiarity with the tenets of the Islamic faith. This is consistent with the findings from the CTC’s earlier report, which showed that very small numbers of foreign fighters reported having any religious education and that approximately 70% of fighters reported having a basic knowledge of Shari`a law…. Moreover, our findings also correspond with primary sources indicating that jihadi groups in general prefer to recruit individuals who have limited religious education since they are less capable of critically scrutinizing the jihadi narrative and ideology, in addition to being less familiar with contrasting Islamic schools of thought.”

“Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.”

As I said on another thread, I personally know 8 Sunni Orthodox muftis (qualified and credentialed) and have learned jurisprudence under 3 of them. All of these nonsense claims are juvenile in my eyes. We have extremists, yes and we are spilling our blood fighting them right now. If you want to have a serious read at a juristic take down of the claims of groups like Daesh, I suggest:

Our extremists say the same thing – this is one of our problems. Too many Muslims have cast aside our principles for material gain. We were warned to guard against extremism from our Prophet (pbuh); we have our principles and moral imperatives and you have yours. I am hundred percent certain no victory or relief from our trials will come until we Muslims reform ourselves.

As for you…you think you can turn on extremism and then switch it off like a tap – people don’t work like that. If you think a people who are ready to go ‘Sven Battle-Axe’ will simply return to life as usual after forcibly kicking out Muslims, you haven’t thought things through. Look at that map I posted, then look at it again. And marvel that for the last few decades in history, the border between France and Germany has been quiet. This is taken for granted, but is actually an extreme anomaly – read European history. ‘Sven Battle-Axe’, was as formidable a warrior as one could ask for, serving as the elite guard of the Byzantine Emperors. But ‘Sven’ also used to raid the European coastline – sometimes as far as Scotland – enslaving White women and selling them down the Volga to Jews and Muslims.

Do you really, really think the changes made to the legal frameworks in European nations over the centuries were made with Muslims in mind – or to bring some semblance of order to continent that was constantly warring; over tribes, over heresies, over …?

Yeah, you could definitely ignore what the rest of any libertard has to say besides the above, oh except the value of free markets.

I am informed by many libertarian beliefs. I just think of libertarianism the way I think of capitalism; they're useful tools, but I don't want the -ism elevated to a ruling ideology, and I don't think they're good enough to qualify as a self-respecting person's primary political label.

Well and good – my point is that a materialist’s denial of its existence is irrelevant. If that metaphysical reality exists, it can well decide to deny the materialist his existence.

Even less reason to respect that metaphysical reality. I don't worship tyrants.

Quite so – I can get the same reaction out of my cat with a good jump-scare. This is the same reason why people ride roller coasters and get addicted to extreme sports…flight-or-fight. That rush can be incredible. Spiritual – it is not.

You're conflating two different things. I'm not talking about an adrenaline rush.

I’ll never forget an interview I heard with a young White convert. When asked how it had changed her she mentioned that she was more patient and that she didn’t fear death any more. When you transcend the material and animal needs or fears are no longer fetters, then we’re talking.

That is what I'm talking about.

I have no problem with this – read my comments to WFBM. The better question is, do you support it? If you do, ditch materialism and promote ditching materialism as of yesterday. There is no better way to get your population to implode than with that philosophy – it has a proven track record. It is funny, but materialism sells the idea of survival of the fittest being the fundamental purpose of life – and yet, wherever you go, materialists are (on average) the ones least likely to care about propagating their genes – it is ironically a catalyst for complete failure according to its own yardstick.

Jews have been materialists for a long time, and they've done okay. But I don't advocate materialism as a replacement for religion. I'm perfectly fine with people being religious (though I abhor leftist heresies), and I routinely defend religion.

The advantage of materialism is that people don't sit quietly suffering on Earth, in expectation of their Heavenly reward. They fight in this life.

It is funny, but materialism sells the idea of survival of the fittest being the fundamental purpose of life – and yet, wherever you go, materialists are (on average) the ones least likely to care about propagating their genes – it is ironically a catalyst for complete failure according to its own yardstick.

No, materialism sells the idea of survival as being the fundamental purpose of life. Big difference.

Name a major American newspaper or television outlet controlled by Muslims.

I can name a major "American" Big Media outlet that carries water for Muslims: all of them.

I have no problem with this – read my comments to WFBM.

That's not what I asked. You seem to be saying you're indifferent to people's right to maintain their own ethnic-genetic cohesion, which is the same as saying, "no, I don't believe in people's right to maintain their own ethnic-genetic cohesion." Which is effectively throwing your support behind leftist globalist nation-destroying.

Hey Svigor,

I don’t worship tyrants.

Neither do I. Justice is unimaginable for God – if one finds themselves in Hell – not a least of injustice was done to them. But, He created the universe and expects humans to fall in line – He gave you existence – that is reason enough:
“He is not questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned.” (21:23)

If you don’t like this, ahem, power dynamic – make your case when you meet Him.

That is what I’m talking about.

You can’t transcend the material if you are a materialist. You can claim to get feelings and stuff, but that’s just neurons firing off – according to materialism.

They fight in this life.

Yup – that’s actually what we are having a problem with right now. Being patient under oppression or difficulty is a specifically spiritual exercise. Our extremists don’t want to understand that – they are at their core philosophy materialists and they haven’t come to terms with it.

Big difference.

If you say so – details aside – it is still the most effective way to put birth rates into a nose dive. Like feminism or even homosexuality it seems, it will strangle itself. When I see materialists cranking out (at least) replacement rate children, I’ll reconsider my assumptions. Aaaand, assuming all us darkies are given the boot – I still don’t see the culture wars going away between materialist and religious Whites.

That’s not what I asked.

OK – then, yes. When I see materialism taking the steps to forward itself as a serious solution, then we can talk again – otherwise, y’all living on borrowed time.

Which is effectively throwing your support behind leftist globalist nation-destroying.

Well said. The Islamic world must be forcibly democratized. The Iraq war failed only because it wasn't ambitious enough. Muslims keep saying the West is waging a "war on Islam", which is untrue--but it must become true. Every major Muslim country must be occupied and reorganized along secular liberal democratic lines. No price is too high for the achievement of this.

I hope you’re not serious! To “democratize” the Islamic world would require the invasion of dozens of nations, including Pakistan (which has nuclear weapons), and the extermination of 60-70% of the male population: all the fanatics, misogynists, terrorists, potential terrorists, terrorist sympathizers, low-IQ criminals, etc.

The answer is separation, as “the Derb” proposes (but which will never happen): an end to Muslim immigration, forever, with a few rare exceptions; the deportation of nearly all Muslims from Europe and North Americs; and retreat from the Muslim world, no more women in combat boots in Muslim countries, etc. No more “invite-the-world/invade-the-world” in respect to Muslims and Islamic countries.

Just one note - if the insinuation is that Muslims are simply inordinately violent. Well I guess someone completely unread on European history could come to that conclusion. I mean sure, Europeans could renege on current legal guarantees and framework and kick out Muslim and other non-European citizens - that wouldn't actually surprise me since that has precedent in European history.

Now if they think that will magically solve things, they should take a long hard look at this map about the geographical locations of all recorded battles in human history:
http://battles.nodegoat.net/viewer.p/23/385/scenario/1/geo/fullscreen

See any patterns there? Without the darkies around they can go back to their historic continental past time - there is nobody better at depopulating Europe than Europeans.

Peace.

Just one note – if the insinuation is that Muslims are simply inordinately violent. Well I guess someone completely unread on European history could come to that conclusion.

You’re surely not suggesting that Europeans are capable of appalling acts of violence? Just because Europeans slaughtered ten million or so fellow Europeans in the First World War and another sixty million or so in WW2?

The problem is that humans always like to reduce things to a nice simplistic Good Guys vs Bad Guys scenario. For the Old Left the proletarians were the Good Guys and the bourgeoisie were the Bad Guys. For the New Left an assortment of victim groups are the Good Guys and white heterosexual males are the Bad Guys. For the Alt Right white people are the Good Guys and blacks and Muslims are the Bad Guys.

All these ideologies are equally irrational. But that’s because people are not very rational. And people don’t like to admit that anything could be their own fault. Europeans have committed cultural and social suicide but the Alt Right has found the answer – we’ll blame someone else.

The problem is that humans always like to reduce things to a nice simplistic Good Guys vs Bad Guys scenario.

I honestly like a lot of what the Alt-Right brings to the table but they have not thought things through on a very serious and long-term level with intense reflection and insight. It seems a lot of their stuff and talking points is to beat down Left-Liberalism - OK - so what? I could do that with my eyes closed; do they want cookies for taking out a third grader?

As you can see, nobody is, as yet engaging some of the specific points that I have brought up. It's really frustrating, people should be able to give answers to these other than - kick out darkies. Which might solve one problem and bring up a bunch more; such as, what kind of jack-booted thugs are you going to hire to forcibly march children and old people onto boats? And that security state that you've built up to pull it off, what happens when it turns its eyes on you?

A little Anglo-Saxon legal schooling from one of my favorite movies:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBiLT3LASk

And people don’t like to admit that anything could be their own fault.

Wasn't this the cardinal sin of the heroes in the Greek tragedies - hubris?

Good stuff - by the way, I've read your previous comments in the past - much respect.

That is the essence of the problem. The salvationist parties in Europe struggle mightily for a mere 1% or 2% bump up in the votes. Decades have gone by and NOW that is still the case. Just what you describe.

Faithless elites and sellout media monopolies mean nothing if you encounter just one story of rape, parasitism, or Muslims using swimming pools as latrines. Just one is all an awake person needs.

But millions have been exposed to thousands of such stories and just lost all that makes them humans. They cower before savagery and dispossession and turn on leaders who stand up. Bohica is their watchword.

That is the essence of the problem. The salvationist parties in Europe struggle mightily for a mere 1% or 2% bump up in the votes. Decades have gone by and NOW that is still the case. Just what you describe.

The problem with France isn’t Muslims. The problem is the French. The problem with Britain isn’t Muslims. The problem is the British. The problem with Sweden isn’t Muslims. It’s the Swedes.

Europeans have made their choice. They’ve chosen consumerism, hedonism, sexual degeneracy and American pop culture trash, all combined with a healthy dose of virtue-signalling and self-righteousness. Europeans have chosen to flush their own civilisation down the toilet. It’s isn’t Islam that has destroyed Europe. It’s liberalism.

Given the choice between liberalism and Islam, I’ll take Islam.

If Europe wants to survive then Europeans have to rebuild a civilisation that would be worth saving.

If Europe wants to survive then Europeans have to rebuild a civilization that would be worth saving.

And most unfashionably this would need to involve "Blood and Soil".

Swedes for example need the courage to stand up and say that they are ethnic Swedes, living in a country that is their historic homeland and that it is their right and duty to defend their ethnic group, their culture, their land and their interests.

And it wouldn't involve ideas of racial superiority, attacking other countries or Empire building.

It's just Sweden saying that it is the home of the Swedes in the same way that Nigeria is the home of the Nigerians. As the saying goes, "Good fences make good neighbours", and if the neighbours are in trouble then there is no problem giving them aid and helping settle their refugees in more ethnically and religiously similar countries.

Looking after your own race and country is "racism", but of an entirely legitimate kind that doesn't have to include all the negative connotations that have been attached to the word such as racial superiority, colonial Empire building etc. (mostly as a result of the experience of WW2 Nazism), and individuals of different ethnicity can still join the family in a controlled way if they are invited and have the commitment and accept its values.

What foreign races don't have, is an automatic right of entry as an ethnic group.

The problem in the US is really that ethnic European Americans have been unable to define the US as a Anglo state (history, laws and traditions) and use this as the basic frame of reference for a controlled rate of integrationist non ethnic European immigration.

Just one note – if the insinuation is that Muslims are simply inordinately violent. Well I guess someone completely unread on European history could come to that conclusion.

You're surely not suggesting that Europeans are capable of appalling acts of violence? Just because Europeans slaughtered ten million or so fellow Europeans in the First World War and another sixty million or so in WW2?

The problem is that humans always like to reduce things to a nice simplistic Good Guys vs Bad Guys scenario. For the Old Left the proletarians were the Good Guys and the bourgeoisie were the Bad Guys. For the New Left an assortment of victim groups are the Good Guys and white heterosexual males are the Bad Guys. For the Alt Right white people are the Good Guys and blacks and Muslims are the Bad Guys.

All these ideologies are equally irrational. But that's because people are not very rational. And people don't like to admit that anything could be their own fault. Europeans have committed cultural and social suicide but the Alt Right has found the answer - we'll blame someone else.

Hey dfordoom,

The problem is that humans always like to reduce things to a nice simplistic Good Guys vs Bad Guys scenario.

I honestly like a lot of what the Alt-Right brings to the table but they have not thought things through on a very serious and long-term level with intense reflection and insight. It seems a lot of their stuff and talking points is to beat down Left-Liberalism – OK – so what? I could do that with my eyes closed; do they want cookies for taking out a third grader?

As you can see, nobody is, as yet engaging some of the specific points that I have brought up. It’s really frustrating, people should be able to give answers to these other than – kick out darkies. Which might solve one problem and bring up a bunch more; such as, what kind of jack-booted thugs are you going to hire to forcibly march children and old people onto boats? And that security state that you’ve built up to pull it off, what happens when it turns its eyes on you?

A little Anglo-Saxon legal schooling from one of my favorite movies:

And people don’t like to admit that anything could be their own fault.

Wasn’t this the cardinal sin of the heroes in the Greek tragedies – hubris?

Good stuff – by the way, I’ve read your previous comments in the past – much respect.

I honestly like a lot of what the Alt-Right brings to the table but they have not thought things through on a very serious and long-term level with intense reflection and insight. It seems a lot of their stuff and talking points is to beat down Left-Liberalism – OK – so what? I could do that with my eyes closed; do they want cookies for taking out a third grader?

I understand the superficial attractions of the Alt Right. I'm personally very tired of White Guilt, I'm sick of being expected to apologise for being a white heterosexual male. But playing the identity politics game is playing straight into the hands of the globalist elites. They're hopelessly marginalising themselves. Their strategy is a losing strategy.

The problem is that humans always like to reduce things to a nice simplistic Good Guys vs Bad Guys scenario.

I honestly like a lot of what the Alt-Right brings to the table but they have not thought things through on a very serious and long-term level with intense reflection and insight. It seems a lot of their stuff and talking points is to beat down Left-Liberalism - OK - so what? I could do that with my eyes closed; do they want cookies for taking out a third grader?

As you can see, nobody is, as yet engaging some of the specific points that I have brought up. It's really frustrating, people should be able to give answers to these other than - kick out darkies. Which might solve one problem and bring up a bunch more; such as, what kind of jack-booted thugs are you going to hire to forcibly march children and old people onto boats? And that security state that you've built up to pull it off, what happens when it turns its eyes on you?

A little Anglo-Saxon legal schooling from one of my favorite movies:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBiLT3LASk

And people don’t like to admit that anything could be their own fault.

Wasn't this the cardinal sin of the heroes in the Greek tragedies - hubris?

Good stuff - by the way, I've read your previous comments in the past - much respect.

Peace.

I honestly like a lot of what the Alt-Right brings to the table but they have not thought things through on a very serious and long-term level with intense reflection and insight. It seems a lot of their stuff and talking points is to beat down Left-Liberalism – OK – so what? I could do that with my eyes closed; do they want cookies for taking out a third grader?

I understand the superficial attractions of the Alt Right. I’m personally very tired of White Guilt, I’m sick of being expected to apologise for being a white heterosexual male. But playing the identity politics game is playing straight into the hands of the globalist elites. They’re hopelessly marginalising themselves. Their strategy is a losing strategy.

They’re hopelessly marginalising themselves. Their strategy is a losing strategy.

No arguments there - I'm trying to help them think through a viable working model that will be reasonable to most of the public and ultimately get them what they are looking for...other than 'Sven Battle-Axe'. It needs to be less emotional and far more thought out and strategic - this is not a game.

And ultimately, politics won't do it - the revival they are looking for is going to involve tightening the belt, advocating settling down and building stable families that are raising children with their heads on straight. I can tell some people on UNZ are doing this. Others are dreaming. It takes serious commitment and time and giving up a lot of what you want - you know, the thing human beings have been doing for centuries. I have a teenage daughter in high school - I had to talk her through the nonsense gay propaganda that she is hit with every day. Good thing is, there wasn't much talking to do, she was already on board (she treats them with human decency, but steers clear of them) - but that's because she has a different frame of reference.

I honestly like a lot of what the Alt-Right brings to the table but they have not thought things through on a very serious and long-term level with intense reflection and insight. It seems a lot of their stuff and talking points is to beat down Left-Liberalism – OK – so what? I could do that with my eyes closed; do they want cookies for taking out a third grader?

I understand the superficial attractions of the Alt Right. I'm personally very tired of White Guilt, I'm sick of being expected to apologise for being a white heterosexual male. But playing the identity politics game is playing straight into the hands of the globalist elites. They're hopelessly marginalising themselves. Their strategy is a losing strategy.

Hey dfordoom,

I’m personally very tired of White Guilt

Same here, and I’m not even White.

They’re hopelessly marginalising themselves. Their strategy is a losing strategy.

No arguments there – I’m trying to help them think through a viable working model that will be reasonable to most of the public and ultimately get them what they are looking for…other than ‘Sven Battle-Axe’. It needs to be less emotional and far more thought out and strategic – this is not a game.

And ultimately, politics won’t do it – the revival they are looking for is going to involve tightening the belt, advocating settling down and building stable families that are raising children with their heads on straight. I can tell some people on UNZ are doing this. Others are dreaming. It takes serious commitment and time and giving up a lot of what you want – you know, the thing human beings have been doing for centuries. I have a teenage daughter in high school – I had to talk her through the nonsense gay propaganda that she is hit with every day. Good thing is, there wasn’t much talking to do, she was already on board (she treats them with human decency, but steers clear of them) – but that’s because she has a different frame of reference.

The problem is that democracy has taught us that there's always a quick easy fix. Vote for me and I'll fix everything within the next four years.

So the message that fixing our problems will take decades of sacrifice and hard work and self-discipline is not exactly popular. The message that our current lifestyles and our current cultural practices are totally unsustainable in the long term is not what people want to hear. I'm just not sure how you sell such a message in a democracy.

It's so much easier to believe that all we need to do is kick out the Muslims or bomb the Russians or bomb the Chinese. Anything to avoid having to face up to our own responsibility for our cultural disintegration.

That is the essence of the problem. The salvationist parties in Europe struggle mightily for a mere 1% or 2% bump up in the votes. Decades have gone by and NOW that is still the case. Just what you describe.

The problem with France isn't Muslims. The problem is the French. The problem with Britain isn't Muslims. The problem is the British. The problem with Sweden isn't Muslims. It's the Swedes.

Europeans have made their choice. They've chosen consumerism, hedonism, sexual degeneracy and American pop culture trash, all combined with a healthy dose of virtue-signalling and self-righteousness. Europeans have chosen to flush their own civilisation down the toilet. It's isn't Islam that has destroyed Europe. It's liberalism.

Given the choice between liberalism and Islam, I'll take Islam.

If Europe wants to survive then Europeans have to rebuild a civilisation that would be worth saving.

If Europe wants to survive then Europeans have to rebuild a civilization that would be worth saving.

And most unfashionably this would need to involve “Blood and Soil”.

Swedes for example need the courage to stand up and say that they are ethnic Swedes, living in a country that is their historic homeland and that it is their right and duty to defend their ethnic group, their culture, their land and their interests.

And it wouldn’t involve ideas of racial superiority, attacking other countries or Empire building.

It’s just Sweden saying that it is the home of the Swedes in the same way that Nigeria is the home of the Nigerians. As the saying goes, “Good fences make good neighbours”, and if the neighbours are in trouble then there is no problem giving them aid and helping settle their refugees in more ethnically and religiously similar countries.

Looking after your own race and country is “racism”, but of an entirely legitimate kind that doesn’t have to include all the negative connotations that have been attached to the word such as racial superiority, colonial Empire building etc. (mostly as a result of the experience of WW2 Nazism), and individuals of different ethnicity can still join the family in a controlled way if they are invited and have the commitment and accept its values.

What foreign races don’t have, is an automatic right of entry as an ethnic group.

The problem in the US is really that ethnic European Americans have been unable to define the US as a Anglo state (history, laws and traditions) and use this as the basic frame of reference for a controlled rate of integrationist non ethnic European immigration.

The problem in the US is really that ethnic European Americans have been unable to define the US as a Anglo state (history, laws and traditions) and use this as the basic frame of reference for a controlled rate of integrationist non ethnic European immigration.

This would have been much easier to do in the 1950's, but since then, political, economic, media and institutional power has slipped away to America's 2% Jewish minority who are doing everything they can to entrench their position through Jewish patronage, promoting Multiculturalism (for Gentiles) and deconstructing Anglo society.

If Europe wants to survive then Europeans have to rebuild a civilization that would be worth saving.

And most unfashionably this would need to involve "Blood and Soil".

Swedes for example need the courage to stand up and say that they are ethnic Swedes, living in a country that is their historic homeland and that it is their right and duty to defend their ethnic group, their culture, their land and their interests.

And it wouldn't involve ideas of racial superiority, attacking other countries or Empire building.

It's just Sweden saying that it is the home of the Swedes in the same way that Nigeria is the home of the Nigerians. As the saying goes, "Good fences make good neighbours", and if the neighbours are in trouble then there is no problem giving them aid and helping settle their refugees in more ethnically and religiously similar countries.

Looking after your own race and country is "racism", but of an entirely legitimate kind that doesn't have to include all the negative connotations that have been attached to the word such as racial superiority, colonial Empire building etc. (mostly as a result of the experience of WW2 Nazism), and individuals of different ethnicity can still join the family in a controlled way if they are invited and have the commitment and accept its values.

What foreign races don't have, is an automatic right of entry as an ethnic group.

The problem in the US is really that ethnic European Americans have been unable to define the US as a Anglo state (history, laws and traditions) and use this as the basic frame of reference for a controlled rate of integrationist non ethnic European immigration.

The problem in the US is really that ethnic European Americans have been unable to define the US as a Anglo state (history, laws and traditions) and use this as the basic frame of reference for a controlled rate of integrationist non ethnic European immigration.

This would have been much easier to do in the 1950′s, but since then, political, economic, media and institutional power has slipped away to America’s 2% Jewish minority who are doing everything they can to entrench their position through Jewish patronage, promoting Multiculturalism (for Gentiles) and deconstructing Anglo society.

Libertarians can mouth a few useful ideas but sooner than later three things will happen:

1. They will play their traditional role as spoiler in the election and hand the winning margin to the left;

2. They'll slobber over open borders and pot legalization; and

3. The guy wearing the jock strap will get up on the stage and dance.

I can't think of a more useless bunch to make into our blood brothers.

White working people and patriotic, aware people of any ethnicity who are not stupid are key, but mainly whites. We were 90% of the population and we need to fight back against those who say whites are illegitimate, just as the minorities and ultra left are saying about Trump. We're"privileged"? In our own country?

Foreigners don't belong in this country, especially Muslims. Illegals are deportable regardless if they've spent 30 years or three months here.

This is strong stuff that will make the decent and amazing Mr. Farage blench. God bless him but he did his best to distance himself from Le Pen. He's basically useless in the fight against Western elite betrayal. He just can't go beyond his magnificent first step.

Just like HRH Elizabeth is useless. She's seen her people betrayed and not uttered one word. Not one blinking word. At least she's had the decency to hang on as long as possible to keep her simpleton son from taking over.

Even that great caller to Farage's show didn't go far enough. He still thinks those who've "integrated" can stay. The ONLY "Asians" who have any claim to our sympathies are the Sikhs, the Hindus, and legal Hispanics who came with visas. Amnesties need to be undone as regretful stupidity on our part.

Bottom line: we need to have an end to the slobbering and mewling over foreigners.

But we have that and put up with it still.

.. and the Ghurkas. I bought one of Joanna’s t-shirts ; the lettering peeled off in the wash.
Oh hello there, plucky little mountain warriors. Come on in. Welcome to the world of Brit ex-servicemen. Always was, ever shall be.

.. scrabbling for cheap food at Morrisons, or queuing outside the Citizens Advice Bureau? She will, after all, need to be housed and fed.

Urquhart survived WW2 Japanese captivity and the slave work camps of the Burma Siam railway.

He's liberated in Japan by American marines and on arrival in the US he's given comfort and encouragement, which is very different from the zero welcome he receives in Southampton (UK). This is followed by the ludicrous demand by an Aberdeen medical board for full records of all the diseases he had suffered as a POW to qualify for a disability war pension.

The book shows Attlee's postwar nationalized, welfare statist, centrally planned Soviet worshipping government for the rubbish that it was.

They’re hopelessly marginalising themselves. Their strategy is a losing strategy.

No arguments there - I'm trying to help them think through a viable working model that will be reasonable to most of the public and ultimately get them what they are looking for...other than 'Sven Battle-Axe'. It needs to be less emotional and far more thought out and strategic - this is not a game.

And ultimately, politics won't do it - the revival they are looking for is going to involve tightening the belt, advocating settling down and building stable families that are raising children with their heads on straight. I can tell some people on UNZ are doing this. Others are dreaming. It takes serious commitment and time and giving up a lot of what you want - you know, the thing human beings have been doing for centuries. I have a teenage daughter in high school - I had to talk her through the nonsense gay propaganda that she is hit with every day. Good thing is, there wasn't much talking to do, she was already on board (she treats them with human decency, but steers clear of them) - but that's because she has a different frame of reference.

It's sad in a way - they have some good potential.

Peace.

And ultimately, politics won’t do it

The problem is that democracy has taught us that there’s always a quick easy fix. Vote for me and I’ll fix everything within the next four years.

So the message that fixing our problems will take decades of sacrifice and hard work and self-discipline is not exactly popular. The message that our current lifestyles and our current cultural practices are totally unsustainable in the long term is not what people want to hear. I’m just not sure how you sell such a message in a democracy.

It’s so much easier to believe that all we need to do is kick out the Muslims or bomb the Russians or bomb the Chinese. Anything to avoid having to face up to our own responsibility for our cultural disintegration.

So the message that fixing our problems will take decades of sacrifice and hard work and self-discipline is not exactly popular.

Incidentally, this is also the reason why our healthcare system is in a downward spiral - diet and exercise, pfffsshhh who needs that!

A lot of it comes down to what you are saying; no pain, no gain. It may be that all this material ease and glut is addictive but may be killing us inside. Perhaps man was never meant to be this well off - that this level of progress cannot be achieved but at the cost of other basic human necessities:

"Humans do not mind hardship, in fact they thrive on it. Disasters are at times remembered more fondly than weddings and tropical vacations. What we do mind is not feeling necessary. Modern Western society has perfected the art of making people not feel necessary. This is a problem. It is time for that to end."
https://convivencia.co/finding-our-tribe-in-a-modern-world-f4c2cfd981e4#.rzkvoplsp

.. and the Ghurkas. I bought one of Joanna's t-shirts ; the lettering peeled off in the wash.
Oh hello there, plucky little mountain warriors. Come on in. Welcome to the world of Brit ex-servicemen. Always was, ever shall be.

.. scrabbling for cheap food at Morrisons, or queuing outside the Citizens Advice Bureau? She will, after all, need to be housed and fed.

I agree with the whole 2nd section of your post, Ace. It is obvious you didn't read or understand mine. Many libertarians want nothing to do with the Open Borders idea. Here is my main point, again:

You wrote "we need to do" this and "we need to do" that. Who is this we? If you mean the US Feral Gov't, well, Mr Derbyshire just got done describing how those people do not want what you (and I and a majority of Americans) want. It won't happen, because we DO NOT HAVE ANY CONTROL OF OUR GOVERNMENT, get it. If you want full control of your government, that government must be very small - that's the only way. If you want the government to be smaller and under control, you are a libertarian, whether that disgusts you or not.

Other than that what can "we" do? There are ways that involve taking power back other than via the Red Team vs. Blue Team ballot box every few years. Many people are expecting this - they call themselves (rightfully) patriots and constitutionalists.

Thanks. I’m glad we have an area of agreement.

I don’t see where I failed to understand you. You suggested that we “ought not to rule out Libertarians as allies. Don’t blow them off as kooks” and my response was to point out that they are not reliable allies. John Stossel has done great work and makes a lot of sense but I see him as having to moderate his true libertarian views to allow him to make programs for Fox (until recently).

We seem to disagree on the meaning of libertarian. I think you argue for a meaning that is not accurate. People who want a return to constitutional government and the rule of law are not libertarians in the sense that word is used today.

So thus we agree on the danger of unchecked government but libertarians as I understand that term can’t be relied upon to stay on message and are almost certain to drift off into stupidity or an alliance with the left by playing the spoiler role.

Sorry, Ace, I forgot about this thread for a while - hard to keep up, you know ;-}

I probably should have been more clear - I didn't mean have the Libertarian Party itself as an ally. I'm not writing about this type of political maneuvering or about the talking heads on TV. I should have wrote that "conservatives have a lot to learn from libertarians", from individuals, that is, not national politics.

People who want a return to constitutional government and the rule of law are not libertarians in the sense that word is used today.

That was not my impression some years ago, but it could easily be right now. I blew off Reason magazine (sent the copy back to them and told them to keep the rest of my subscription money to "buy a clue") more than 10 years back when I realized they don't have a clue on the immigration issue.

Maybe we could agree that Ron Paul is the last decent libertarian. I have nothing bad to say about him, and I wish he had listened to me and spoke up about illegal immigration in 2012.

.. and the Ghurkas. I bought one of Joanna's t-shirts ; the lettering peeled off in the wash.
Oh hello there, plucky little mountain warriors. Come on in. Welcome to the world of Brit ex-servicemen. Always was, ever shall be.

.. scrabbling for cheap food at Morrisons, or queuing outside the Citizens Advice Bureau? She will, after all, need to be housed and fed.

Urquhart survived WW2 Japanese captivity and the slave work camps of the Burma Siam railway.

He’s liberated in Japan by American marines and on arrival in the US he’s given comfort and encouragement, which is very different from the zero welcome he receives in Southampton (UK). This is followed by the ludicrous demand by an Aberdeen medical board for full records of all the diseases he had suffered as a POW to qualify for a disability war pension.

The book shows Attlee’s postwar nationalized, welfare statist, centrally planned Soviet worshipping government for the rubbish that it was.

The problem is that democracy has taught us that there's always a quick easy fix. Vote for me and I'll fix everything within the next four years.

So the message that fixing our problems will take decades of sacrifice and hard work and self-discipline is not exactly popular. The message that our current lifestyles and our current cultural practices are totally unsustainable in the long term is not what people want to hear. I'm just not sure how you sell such a message in a democracy.

It's so much easier to believe that all we need to do is kick out the Muslims or bomb the Russians or bomb the Chinese. Anything to avoid having to face up to our own responsibility for our cultural disintegration.

Hey dfordoom,

So the message that fixing our problems will take decades of sacrifice and hard work and self-discipline is not exactly popular.

Incidentally, this is also the reason why our healthcare system is in a downward spiral – diet and exercise, pfffsshhh who needs that!

A lot of it comes down to what you are saying; no pain, no gain. It may be that all this material ease and glut is addictive but may be killing us inside. Perhaps man was never meant to be this well off – that this level of progress cannot be achieved but at the cost of other basic human necessities:

“Humans do not mind hardship, in fact they thrive on it. Disasters are at times remembered more fondly than weddings and tropical vacations. What we do mind is not feeling necessary. Modern Western society has perfected the art of making people not feel necessary. This is a problem. It is time for that to end.”

Fuck off with your anti Semitic thinking. That comes from Islam, and it's a terrible worldview that shuts down critical thinking and replaces it with its Jews fault. Tldr: anti-Semitic = Islam supporter

Every time I see a muzzie demanding open borders,there,at his side,is a gaggle of Jews. The Torah commands it! Torah commands this,torah commands that,always the Torah is against us!

So the message that fixing our problems will take decades of sacrifice and hard work and self-discipline is not exactly popular.

Incidentally, this is also the reason why our healthcare system is in a downward spiral - diet and exercise, pfffsshhh who needs that!

A lot of it comes down to what you are saying; no pain, no gain. It may be that all this material ease and glut is addictive but may be killing us inside. Perhaps man was never meant to be this well off - that this level of progress cannot be achieved but at the cost of other basic human necessities:

"Humans do not mind hardship, in fact they thrive on it. Disasters are at times remembered more fondly than weddings and tropical vacations. What we do mind is not feeling necessary. Modern Western society has perfected the art of making people not feel necessary. This is a problem. It is time for that to end."
https://convivencia.co/finding-our-tribe-in-a-modern-world-f4c2cfd981e4#.rzkvoplsp

Peace.

What we do mind is not feeling necessary. Modern Western society has perfected the art of making people not feel necessary.

I don't see where I failed to understand you. You suggested that we "ought not to rule out Libertarians as allies. Don’t blow them off as kooks" and my response was to point out that they are not reliable allies. John Stossel has done great work and makes a lot of sense but I see him as having to moderate his true libertarian views to allow him to make programs for Fox (until recently).

We seem to disagree on the meaning of libertarian. I think you argue for a meaning that is not accurate. People who want a return to constitutional government and the rule of law are not libertarians in the sense that word is used today.

So thus we agree on the danger of unchecked government but libertarians as I understand that term can't be relied upon to stay on message and are almost certain to drift off into stupidity or an alliance with the left by playing the spoiler role.

Sorry, Ace, I forgot about this thread for a while – hard to keep up, you know ;-}

I probably should have been more clear – I didn’t mean have the Libertarian Party itself as an ally. I’m not writing about this type of political maneuvering or about the talking heads on TV. I should have wrote that “conservatives have a lot to learn from libertarians”, from individuals, that is, not national politics.

People who want a return to constitutional government and the rule of law are not libertarians in the sense that word is used today.

That was not my impression some years ago, but it could easily be right now. I blew off Reason magazine (sent the copy back to them and told them to keep the rest of my subscription money to “buy a clue”) more than 10 years back when I realized they don’t have a clue on the immigration issue.

Maybe we could agree that Ron Paul is the last decent libertarian. I have nothing bad to say about him, and I wish he had listened to me and spoke up about illegal immigration in 2012.

You're right about Ron Paul. He was principled and consistent throughout his congressional career. I think I parted company with him on the same issue. Libertarianism, like the welfare state, can't work if the pool of "citizens" who will enjoy its benefits is defined as "everybody."

Yes, "conservatives" can learn a lot from libertarians. John Stossel was a very effective advocate for that most scary of propositions, viz., letting people work it out for themselves. He had a clever segment on one show where he illustrated that skaters don't need a traffic cop to maneuver safely on the rink.

Lord knows what "conservatives" are about these days. None except Pat Buchanan and the great people at the Rockford Institute and Chronicles magazine seem to be perturbed about Wickard v. Filburn, massive growth of fedgov, or unconstitutional, aggressive wars in Syria. Some conservatives I know actually think that the fall of the Soviet Union was a deception operation, SHMG. Yes, there's a day or two over some new leftist outrage but then it's "hands across the aisle" McCainism.

I used to read the Future of Freedom Foundation stuff in the '80s but gradually lost interest. There's always something that's a little off about libertarianism as my Three Points show, I think. It's like the anarchists. Working everything about by agreement with other kindly, flexible, reasonable neighbors is terrific but sooner rather than later you hear the words "non-aggression principle" which makes zero sense in the light of 50,000 (?) years of human existence where aggression has almost invariably been Choice No. 1.

Sorry, Ace, I forgot about this thread for a while - hard to keep up, you know ;-}

I probably should have been more clear - I didn't mean have the Libertarian Party itself as an ally. I'm not writing about this type of political maneuvering or about the talking heads on TV. I should have wrote that "conservatives have a lot to learn from libertarians", from individuals, that is, not national politics.

People who want a return to constitutional government and the rule of law are not libertarians in the sense that word is used today.

That was not my impression some years ago, but it could easily be right now. I blew off Reason magazine (sent the copy back to them and told them to keep the rest of my subscription money to "buy a clue") more than 10 years back when I realized they don't have a clue on the immigration issue.

Maybe we could agree that Ron Paul is the last decent libertarian. I have nothing bad to say about him, and I wish he had listened to me and spoke up about illegal immigration in 2012.

No problem. I’ve recalled the chastisement squad.

You’re right about Ron Paul. He was principled and consistent throughout his congressional career. I think I parted company with him on the same issue. Libertarianism, like the welfare state, can’t work if the pool of “citizens” who will enjoy its benefits is defined as “everybody.”

Yes, “conservatives” can learn a lot from libertarians. John Stossel was a very effective advocate for that most scary of propositions, viz., letting people work it out for themselves. He had a clever segment on one show where he illustrated that skaters don’t need a traffic cop to maneuver safely on the rink.

Lord knows what “conservatives” are about these days. None except Pat Buchanan and the great people at the Rockford Institute and Chronicles magazine seem to be perturbed about Wickard v. Filburn, massive growth of fedgov, or unconstitutional, aggressive wars in Syria. Some conservatives I know actually think that the fall of the Soviet Union was a deception operation, SHMG. Yes, there’s a day or two over some new leftist outrage but then it’s “hands across the aisle” McCainism.

I used to read the Future of Freedom Foundation stuff in the ’80s but gradually lost interest. There’s always something that’s a little off about libertarianism as my Three Points show, I think. It’s like the anarchists. Working everything about by agreement with other kindly, flexible, reasonable neighbors is terrific but sooner rather than later you hear the words “non-aggression principle” which makes zero sense in the light of 50,000 (?) years of human existence where aggression has almost invariably been Choice No. 1.

Probably not coming. If the West thinks it's fine to have people publicly denigrate the Son of Mary (pbuh) in their midst in the name of freedom - go for it. As far as apostates - you have already expressed that anyone who converts to Islam in the West needs to be kicked out - so come back when I can take you seriously.

And of swearing false oaths to protect and defend the Constitution.

This one is tricky: 1) first off, according to the sacred law, we are guests here - terms like 'citizen', 'resident', are terms (and apparently quite malleable) of the Western nation-state framework -so strip us of official citizenship and 2) have you read the rules of the Constitution - it changes, anybody can swear fealty to it, if there is a 80% Muslim super-majority, it can be ammended - according to its own rules.

Third, again, please don't make me laugh about your commitment to the Constitution - c'mon, let's be serious - stripping citizens who have committed no crimes of their rights? Expulsion of people based on religion? LOL! Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Ace!

And of honor killings.

There are numerous fatwas against this - I cited one a long time ago from a mufti I know personally:
“The concept of honor killing has no basis in Islam. In fact, it is a major crime. A person guilty of honor killing will be put to death in an Islamic state where the qādi (judge) has the right to regulate and implement capital punishment.”

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/81335

Hell, it's so well known that Britannica knows this:
“Within many Islamic countries the extra-judicial killing of persons by members of their own families for real or perceived moral infractions has been relatively common. Such ‘honour killings’ are in fact violations of both civil and Islamic law, but perpetrators frequently use religious reasons to defend their actions, thereby giving the crime a veneer of justification.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/punishment#ref=ref991101

And of pedophilia.

LOL! Man you are going after all the talking points - aren't you. Pedophilia isn't allowed and hasn't been - I've dealt with it enough on threads where you have been present. Don't be lazy, search through my archives.

And of burning POWs alive.

Sigh - this was roundly denounced by all scholars - even major Salafi ones - the fact that you are unaware is irrelevant.

And chopping off the heads of Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia.

Oh yeah - that is obviously permissible - LOL! I mean you totally got us - I'm going to go cry in a corner now.

Seriously, I'm going to put you on my "don't waste my time" list. Please engage me in discourse that is not so juvenile. Otherwise - DWMT.

Peace.

Hey, Talha,

Great to hear from you, as always.

The killing of apostates and blasphemers is quite popular in Pakistan. Those killers just seem to be convinced that they will be able to get away with killing those blasphemers. Why, thousands visited the grave of the man who rid Pakistan of that nuisance, Salman Taseer. As you can see from the picture in that link, Mr. Qadri’s grave is very nicely decorated and those people who stand so reverently at the side of his grade look like very posh people to me. They must be “misunderstanders” of Islam. Who can doubt it?

Some brave people there oppose the bedrock Islamic principle of death for blasphemy but all such people swim against the tide. Just about anybody who suggests some sensible amelioration of the savagery of the Islamic way ends up with a bullet or a knife in him. To which you invariably respond, the scholars disapprove.

You’re right that the Constitution can be amended. The point is that you “guests” here swear falsely at the time of your oath because you don’t intend to offer salutary amendments to the Constitution at some later date but intend to do away with it entirely. So so much for “protect and defend.” You’re the proverbial dog in the manger.

I can’t recall Koranic blessings upon honor killings but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there or inherent in the glorious overall scheme of eternal hostility to infidels and institutional mysoj . . . missogen . . . misohje . . . hatred of women. Your link bears out your point but note how adultery is there said to justify the killing of another and, lo and behold, this “council of elders” in Lanashire, U.K., held that a (future) killer had “the right to exact the death penalty on his neighbour’s children.” They had disrespected him it appears. So the “council of elders” didn’t give the future crime a “veneer of justification,” it said it was A-OK. All official like. So let’s skip the “the scholars are against it” mantra, please.

Pam Geller has a page on her web site about the popular practice of honor killings. If only your lot knew that honor killings are un-Islamic!

Yes, yes, yes. Pedophilia isn’t allowed. Those girls under nine are as safe as can be. The Prophet (PBUH) said nine is the proper age for fun and games with mature men.

And then there’s the pic of that Iranian mullah planting that big kiss on the lips of that young boy. And I do mean boy. Again, sorry I can’t post pics here because it’s really something to see.

Yup. The scholars “roundly denounce” just about everything that seems to make Islam so vile and retrograde but, Talha, it just keeps happening, my friend. So many misunderstanders again.

PS – I agreed with your point made in a response to another comment of mine. Something about Muslims are smart enough to make sure that hostile dhimmis don’t get the upper hand. That’s my point exactly about deporting Muslims. Solving problems before they become expensive to fix. I have to tell you I almost had a heart attack. My death will be on your conscience.

Uhhhh yeah - that's why they're called extremists. The majority voice of the scholars around the world is what defines Islam - not some idiot with a knife and a death wish.

You think otherwise - you're entitled to your opinion. No Muslim cares what you think.

but intend to do away with it entirely

Nonsense. Plenty of Muslim countries have constitutions. The Constitution has been amended to represent the changing voice of the majority - everything from prohibition and its repeal, women voting, etc. Just because you don't have a grip on logic doesn't mean we have to accept your premise just because you can type it out.

“council of elders”

Don't make me laugh.

You're like a broken record on the pedophilia thing; I'm beginning to wonder why. As far as historic Muslim practice, it's the matter of puberty that counts - when a human being reaches sexual maturity (which was the historic norm practically everywhere).

I've already dealt with the topic in the past, you can peruse my archives if you are sincere. Also, I take no one seriously on this subject

My death will be on your conscience.

No it won't, it's far more likely related to your obsession with pedophilia.

The killing of apostates and blasphemers is quite popular in Pakistan. Those killers just seem to be convinced that they will be able to get away with killing those blasphemers. Why, thousands visited the grave of the man who rid Pakistan of that nuisance, Salman Taseer. As you can see from the picture in that link, Mr. Qadri's grave is very nicely decorated and those people who stand so reverently at the side of his grade look like very posh people to me. They must be "misunderstanders" of Islam. Who can doubt it?

Some brave people there oppose the bedrock Islamic principle of death for blasphemy but all such people swim against the tide. Just about anybody who suggests some sensible amelioration of the savagery of the Islamic way ends up with a bullet or a knife in him. To which you invariably respond, the scholars disapprove.

You're right that the Constitution can be amended. The point is that you "guests" here swear falsely at the time of your oath because you don't intend to offer salutary amendments to the Constitution at some later date but intend to do away with it entirely. So so much for "protect and defend." You're the proverbial dog in the manger.

I can't recall Koranic blessings upon honor killings but that doesn't mean they aren't there or inherent in the glorious overall scheme of eternal hostility to infidels and institutional mysoj . . . missogen . . . misohje . . . hatred of women. Your link bears out your point but note how adultery is there said to justify the killing of another and, lo and behold, this "council of elders" in Lanashire, U.K., held that a (future) killer had "the right to exact the death penalty on his neighbour’s children." They had disrespected him it appears. So the "council of elders" didn't give the future crime a "veneer of justification," it said it was A-OK. All official like. So let's skip the "the scholars are against it" mantra, please.

Pam Geller has a page on her web site about the popular practice of honor killings. If only your lot knew that honor killings are un-Islamic!

Yes, yes, yes. Pedophilia isn't allowed. Those girls under nine are as safe as can be. The Prophet (PBUH) said nine is the proper age for fun and games with mature men.

And then there's the pic of that Iranian mullah planting that big kiss on the lips of that young boy. And I do mean boy. Again, sorry I can't post pics here because it's really something to see.

Yup. The scholars "roundly denounce" just about everything that seems to make Islam so vile and retrograde but, Talha, it just keeps happening, my friend. So many misunderstanders again.

PS – I agreed with your point made in a response to another comment of mine. Something about Muslims are smart enough to make sure that hostile dhimmis don't get the upper hand. That's my point exactly about deporting Muslims. Solving problems before they become expensive to fix. I have to tell you I almost had a heart attack. My death will be on your conscience.

Yeah, you think being a 9 year-old girl is a bad deal in a Moslem country, try being a goat for a few weeks.

Sorry to hear that, my girlfriend's cousin was raped by a bunch of white college kids a few years ago so I feel your pain.

I think you are claiming a popular confection that never happened, my reasoning has statistical reality, and is based on bitter lived experience, not on a fake ‘I havethe same’, as yours is. Raped anyone lately? Wouldn’t be surprised if you had, from the reply.

The killing of apostates and blasphemers is quite popular in Pakistan. Those killers just seem to be convinced that they will be able to get away with killing those blasphemers. Why, thousands visited the grave of the man who rid Pakistan of that nuisance, Salman Taseer. As you can see from the picture in that link, Mr. Qadri's grave is very nicely decorated and those people who stand so reverently at the side of his grade look like very posh people to me. They must be "misunderstanders" of Islam. Who can doubt it?

Some brave people there oppose the bedrock Islamic principle of death for blasphemy but all such people swim against the tide. Just about anybody who suggests some sensible amelioration of the savagery of the Islamic way ends up with a bullet or a knife in him. To which you invariably respond, the scholars disapprove.

You're right that the Constitution can be amended. The point is that you "guests" here swear falsely at the time of your oath because you don't intend to offer salutary amendments to the Constitution at some later date but intend to do away with it entirely. So so much for "protect and defend." You're the proverbial dog in the manger.

I can't recall Koranic blessings upon honor killings but that doesn't mean they aren't there or inherent in the glorious overall scheme of eternal hostility to infidels and institutional mysoj . . . missogen . . . misohje . . . hatred of women. Your link bears out your point but note how adultery is there said to justify the killing of another and, lo and behold, this "council of elders" in Lanashire, U.K., held that a (future) killer had "the right to exact the death penalty on his neighbour’s children." They had disrespected him it appears. So the "council of elders" didn't give the future crime a "veneer of justification," it said it was A-OK. All official like. So let's skip the "the scholars are against it" mantra, please.

Pam Geller has a page on her web site about the popular practice of honor killings. If only your lot knew that honor killings are un-Islamic!

Yes, yes, yes. Pedophilia isn't allowed. Those girls under nine are as safe as can be. The Prophet (PBUH) said nine is the proper age for fun and games with mature men.

And then there's the pic of that Iranian mullah planting that big kiss on the lips of that young boy. And I do mean boy. Again, sorry I can't post pics here because it's really something to see.

Yup. The scholars "roundly denounce" just about everything that seems to make Islam so vile and retrograde but, Talha, it just keeps happening, my friend. So many misunderstanders again.

PS – I agreed with your point made in a response to another comment of mine. Something about Muslims are smart enough to make sure that hostile dhimmis don't get the upper hand. That's my point exactly about deporting Muslims. Solving problems before they become expensive to fix. I have to tell you I almost had a heart attack. My death will be on your conscience.

Hey Ace,

To which you invariably respond, the scholars disapprove.

Uhhhh yeah – that’s why they’re called extremists. The majority voice of the scholars around the world is what defines Islam – not some idiot with a knife and a death wish.

You think otherwise – you’re entitled to your opinion. No Muslim cares what you think.

but intend to do away with it entirely

Nonsense. Plenty of Muslim countries have constitutions. The Constitution has been amended to represent the changing voice of the majority – everything from prohibition and its repeal, women voting, etc. Just because you don’t have a grip on logic doesn’t mean we have to accept your premise just because you can type it out.

“council of elders”

Don’t make me laugh.

You’re like a broken record on the pedophilia thing; I’m beginning to wonder why. As far as historic Muslim practice, it’s the matter of puberty that counts – when a human being reaches sexual maturity (which was the historic norm practically everywhere).

I’ve already dealt with the topic in the past, you can peruse my archives if you are sincere. Also, I take no one seriously on this subject

My death will be on your conscience.

No it won’t, it’s far more likely related to your obsession with pedophilia.

Uhhhh yeah - that's why they're called extremists. The majority voice of the scholars around the world is what defines Islam - not some idiot with a knife and a death wish.

You think otherwise - you're entitled to your opinion. No Muslim cares what you think.

but intend to do away with it entirely

Nonsense. Plenty of Muslim countries have constitutions. The Constitution has been amended to represent the changing voice of the majority - everything from prohibition and its repeal, women voting, etc. Just because you don't have a grip on logic doesn't mean we have to accept your premise just because you can type it out.

“council of elders”

Don't make me laugh.

You're like a broken record on the pedophilia thing; I'm beginning to wonder why. As far as historic Muslim practice, it's the matter of puberty that counts - when a human being reaches sexual maturity (which was the historic norm practically everywhere).

I've already dealt with the topic in the past, you can peruse my archives if you are sincere. Also, I take no one seriously on this subject

My death will be on your conscience.

No it won't, it's far more likely related to your obsession with pedophilia.

Don't waste my time.

Peace.

Some of it’s in a book that’s very popular with your crowd, in fact #1 with a scimitar bullet on the Mecca Times bestseller list. Ann Barnhardt has had quite a bit to say about this book, see here:

She also calls Miss Lindsey Graham (Traitor – SC) a jackass multiple times, which should make this video worth watching even for Moslems.

No Muslim cares what Ann Barnhardt's interpretations are either. Non-Muslim interpretations of our primary texts mean nothing, their testimony as to our religious rules or interpretation thereof are filed in the trash can, they can't even bear witness to hadith transmission. The tradition is completely insulated from outside discussion; it's our party, you ain't invited. You want to make interpretations on the sacred text of a religion, then go make one up.

Muslim scholars who have spent their lives studying this religion for decades understand it better than anybody else. Better than you and better than gun-toting 20-something idiots. So, if you want to say "Islam says...", and you actually want a Muslim to believe you; then go do some leg work and actually find a ruling that all four schools of Sunni jurisprudence actually agree on (adding on Shiah and Ibadi scholarship would be nice, but not necessary) and then present that as some kind of evidence. Don't waste my time quoting random minority positions or those of extinct juristic schools (like those of Imams Layth [ra], Thawri [ra], Tabari [ra]).

Don't quote random verses from the Qur'an or hadith to show how ignorant your interpretation is - because Muslims don't care.

Some of it's in a book that's very popular with your crowd, in fact #1 with a scimitar bullet on the Mecca Times bestseller list. Ann Barnhardt has had quite a bit to say about this book, see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIPPSI4G_N8

She also calls Miss Lindsey Graham (Traitor - SC) a jackass multiple times, which should make this video worth watching even for Moslems.

Hey AEN,

Some of it’s in a book that’s very popular with your crowd

A lot of stuff is in that book.

No Muslim cares what Ann Barnhardt’s interpretations are either. Non-Muslim interpretations of our primary texts mean nothing, their testimony as to our religious rules or interpretation thereof are filed in the trash can, they can’t even bear witness to hadith transmission. The tradition is completely insulated from outside discussion; it’s our party, you ain’t invited. You want to make interpretations on the sacred text of a religion, then go make one up.

Muslim scholars who have spent their lives studying this religion for decades understand it better than anybody else. Better than you and better than gun-toting 20-something idiots. So, if you want to say “Islam says…”, and you actually want a Muslim to believe you; then go do some leg work and actually find a ruling that all four schools of Sunni jurisprudence actually agree on (adding on Shiah and Ibadi scholarship would be nice, but not necessary) and then present that as some kind of evidence. Don’t waste my time quoting random minority positions or those of extinct juristic schools (like those of Imams Layth [ra], Thawri [ra], Tabari [ra]).

Don’t quote random verses from the Qur’an or hadith to show how ignorant your interpretation is – because Muslims don’t care.

Hey, Talha, I’ll have you know that Miss Barnhardt is no 20-year old, and the gun-toting is something to be proud of – she has a pink AR. I’ll believe her word from direct quotes from your best-seller over some nut on the internet ( … wait ….). Miss Barnhardt wanted to let the extremists in your crowd no that they wouldn’t be able to get to her easily, as they would want to because they blow people up, behead them, and run them over based on insults to their child-molesting estimated prophet. It’s no wonder your men won’t let you behind the wheel of a large automobile, or any one. For that matter, your men drive like idiots and should also not be in control of any conveyance that doesn’t sport two humps.

Notice, Talha, that you will see many people completely blaspheming the Bible via nasty artwork, books, movies, etc. I remember protests about a movie that pretty much made fun of Christ’s life story, called “The Life of Brian”. Yeah, it was funny as hell, but regardless, nobody was worried about getting killed over any of that stuff on either side.

Think about that difference I just pointed out to you. If you can’t take a joke either, get out of this country and continent, we are not tolerant of people who are too damn serious, so piss off!

And I meant our gun-toting 20 year old idiots, you know the ones trying to build their pipedream utopia on the skulls of innocent Muslims and Christians and others. Ms. Barnhardt? There are cat videos worth more my time, feel free to drink her koolaid.

Hey, Talha, I'll have you know that Miss Barnhardt is no 20-year old, and the gun-toting is something to be proud of - she has a pink AR. I'll believe her word from direct quotes from your best-seller over some nut on the internet ( ... wait ....). Miss Barnhardt wanted to let the extremists in your crowd no that they wouldn't be able to get to her easily, as they would want to because they blow people up, behead them, and run them over based on insults to their child-molesting estimated prophet. It's no wonder your men won't let you behind the wheel of a large automobile, or any one. For that matter, your men drive like idiots and should also not be in control of any conveyance that doesn't sport two humps.

Notice, Talha, that you will see many people completely blaspheming the Bible via nasty artwork, books, movies, etc. I remember protests about a movie that pretty much made fun of Christ's life story, called "The Life of Brian". Yeah, it was funny as hell, but regardless, nobody was worried about getting killed over any of that stuff on either side.

Think about that difference I just pointed out to you. If you can't take a joke either, get out of this country and continent, we are not tolerant of people who are too damn serious, so piss off!

Hey AEN,

If you can’t take a joke either, get out of this country and continent, we are not tolerant of people who are too damn serious, so piss off!

Hey, Talha, I'll have you know that Miss Barnhardt is no 20-year old, and the gun-toting is something to be proud of - she has a pink AR. I'll believe her word from direct quotes from your best-seller over some nut on the internet ( ... wait ....). Miss Barnhardt wanted to let the extremists in your crowd no that they wouldn't be able to get to her easily, as they would want to because they blow people up, behead them, and run them over based on insults to their child-molesting estimated prophet. It's no wonder your men won't let you behind the wheel of a large automobile, or any one. For that matter, your men drive like idiots and should also not be in control of any conveyance that doesn't sport two humps.

Notice, Talha, that you will see many people completely blaspheming the Bible via nasty artwork, books, movies, etc. I remember protests about a movie that pretty much made fun of Christ's life story, called "The Life of Brian". Yeah, it was funny as hell, but regardless, nobody was worried about getting killed over any of that stuff on either side.

Think about that difference I just pointed out to you. If you can't take a joke either, get out of this country and continent, we are not tolerant of people who are too damn serious, so piss off!

And I meant our gun-toting 20 year old idiots, you know the ones trying to build their pipedream utopia on the skulls of innocent Muslims and Christians and others. Ms. Barnhardt? There are cat videos worth more my time, feel free to drink her koolaid.

She seems pretty fair. You should read what she has to say about the so-called Pope. It's worth a few minutes. I give people a fair shot - I just read through all your comments on this thread here.

Here's what I think. This part is almost right:

Dang – someone gets it! Don’t invade and there won’t be a need to invite!

Don't invade and don't invite (there's never a need for the American people, just the elites who want to wipe out the middle class). FIFY, as they say.

I'd also agree that citizenship should not be revoked, unless obtained under false pretenses, - though that seems to happen a lot lately.

I think you are wrong, and I'd venture to say most on this blog would agree with me, about your saying that religion is stronger than tribal instincts. That's the problem we have - Moslems will stick together and you can note that there are not near a majority that will condemn any violence on Moslems' part, no matter whether it was in your book or not, and whether any of them read it or not.

If you think that only your people have the "correct" interpretation of the Koran, then your religion is like Catholicism in the Middle Ages, when only the priests, who knew Latin, could read the Bible and tell what it said. I haven't read any of the Koran, so I get what I hear from others. Miss Barnhardt was reading from it verbatim - true only a few parts, but she's pretty straight on everything - hardcore, but straight. (Again, read what she has to say about this so-called Pope they got over there.)

That all said, I forgot that you said you were a man, till I re-read above posts, so sorry; your logic is decent but you have a few wrong premises. The number one thing is that the West needs more Moslems like another hole in the head. I can't stand that wailing and uvulating either. It's not who WE are.

(I am glad you like Ron Paul, so there's that in common , but 99% of Moslems wouldn't even understand the concepts of "rule of law, not men", "due process" or any of that, never ever.)

And I meant our gun-toting 20 year old idiots, you know the ones trying to build their pipedream utopia on the skulls of innocent Muslims and Christians and others. Ms. Barnhardt? There are cat videos worth more my time, feel free to drink her koolaid.

She seems pretty fair. You should read what she has to say about the so-called Pope. It’s worth a few minutes. I give people a fair shot – I just read through all your comments on this thread here.

Here’s what I think. This part is almost right:

Dang – someone gets it! Don’t invade and there won’t be a need to invite!

Don’t invade and don’t invite (there’s never a need for the American people, just the elites who want to wipe out the middle class). FIFY, as they say.

I’d also agree that citizenship should not be revoked, unless obtained under false pretenses, – though that seems to happen a lot lately.

I think you are wrong, and I’d venture to say most on this blog would agree with me, about your saying that religion is stronger than tribal instincts. That’s the problem we have – Moslems will stick together and you can note that there are not near a majority that will condemn any violence on Moslems’ part, no matter whether it was in your book or not, and whether any of them read it or not.

If you think that only your people have the “correct” interpretation of the Koran, then your religion is like Catholicism in the Middle Ages, when only the priests, who knew Latin, could read the Bible and tell what it said. I haven’t read any of the Koran, so I get what I hear from others. Miss Barnhardt was reading from it verbatim – true only a few parts, but she’s pretty straight on everything – hardcore, but straight. (Again, read what she has to say about this so-called Pope they got over there.)

That all said, I forgot that you said you were a man, till I re-read above posts, so sorry; your logic is decent but you have a few wrong premises. The number one thing is that the West needs more Moslems like another hole in the head. I can’t stand that wailing and uvulating either. It’s not who WE are.

(I am glad you like Ron Paul, so there’s that in common , but 99% of Moslems wouldn’t even understand the concepts of “rule of law, not men”, “due process” or any of that, never ever.)

I’d also agree that citizenship should not be revoked, unless obtained under false pretenses

Solid Anglo-Saxon sense of rule of law - though not sure you are Anglo or not. I hold people that honor principle in serious respect - it is in short supply.

I think you are wrong, and I’d venture to say most on this blog would agree with me, about your saying that religion is stronger than tribal instincts.

That's fine, the West has been without serious religion for a while so I can understand that and often it led to wars (though it did also unite them for the Crusades and such). In our history we had less intra-religious wars and it was specifically the groups and leaders that could rally multiple ethnicities under the banner of religion that were the most successful whether in military conflict (I mean, what the heck was Salahuddin [ra] - a Kurd - doing running Egypt and managing an army composed of Circassians, Seljuks, Arabs, Nubians, etc.) or in managing society. The genius was in how to leverage the unique aptitudes and skills of the various people while balancing how to keep everyone working together - and religion worked well for that. Again, our history is different than yours and our theology is different and thus, naturally, leads to different conclusions. By the way, this is a great lesson (if you have about 10 minutes) on why we are clinging so closely to our tradition in this post-modern age:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kDbqABvEN0

If you think that only your people have the “correct” interpretation of the Koran

If you mean by qualified Muslim scholars as a whole, then there are two aspects; 1) there are legitimate differences of opinion, 2) when there is a consensus on an issue - then this is the correct opinion - this is what Islam says. This aspect is in our name:"All Muslims are guided by the Sunnah, but Sunnis stress it, as well as consensus (ijma; the full name of Sunnis is Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Ijma, people of the Sunnah and consensus)."http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t125/e2280

Non-Muslim voices do not count, whether they interpret our religion positively or negatively; it is an internal affair. Just like Catholic doctrine doesn't care what Jews or materialists conclude on religious precepts.

so I get what I hear from others

Fine, but who are the others? That is the question.

Miss Barnhardt was reading from it verbatim – true only a few parts, but she’s pretty straight on everything – hardcore, but straight.

Look, we're being honest with each other, so here's the deal. Do you really, really expect me to believe some random woman on the internet (who doesn't have the basic grasp of Arabic grammar) knows what she is talking about? I've studied jurisprudence and continue to do so (part time) under three qualified Muftis of the Hanafi school. I cannot begin to describe how daft her understanding is. The Qur'an says a bunch of stuff, some has to do with war, some has to do with peace. Anybody who is looking for what they want to see will indeed find what they are looking for, but that is the problem. This is not a boy-scout religion, trying to derive rules is extremely dangerous for the unqualified, it takes decades of study under others who have had decades of study to be able to derive these rulings. This is a good article by a mufti (a White convert at that) in the Shafi'i school who received his credentials at Al-Azhar:http://seekershub.org/blog/2012/08/what-is-a-fatwa-who-can-give-one-by-sheikh-musa-furber-washington-post/

The fact that she and Daesh essentially come to the same conclusions - in contradiction to the majority voice of our scholars means one thing to me; if she converted tomorrow, she would be an immmediate security threat. If you want to know what the experts in our religion feel about these issues, then read this (and scroll down to the bottom to see the list and qualification of the signatories):http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com/14/english-v14.pdf

I have zero problems with people criticizing Islam to the sky and back, but at least be honest and criticize what it actually says - not some straw man derived from one's own ignorance - that's not that much to ask. I've seen some very good, honest academic criticisms, but they are in the tiny minority.

I read a little of what she said about the Pope - not my religion, so I have no dog in the fight. But again, I ask, what are her qualifications to criticize him? Anybody can criticize anything; my plumber can criticize gravitational waves or string theory, but why should I care what he says? Just because he has a blog? People's cats have blogs:http://www.wwwallaboutcats.com/blog/top-cat-blogs-of-2016/

In this age of information glut and everyone wanting their fifteen minutes of fame, one must learn to sift through the garbage or they'll trash their minds.

The number one thing is that the West needs more Moslems like another hole in the head.

That was not my premise. As I've said before - I can totally understand this the West seems to be demographically shrinking, they have lost their mojo. Every nation has a right to set immigration policies it feels are best for its future. If the people of the US decided they only wanted nubile Brazilian women with certain chest and hip ratios - it is fully within their rights. Being that we are currently dealing with an Islamic reformation (that's right - people who want Islamic reform - this is the reformation, how do you like it so far) attempt gone seriously wrong (the Salafi-Wahhabi* school that is only about 150 years old has splintered and almost exclusively is the backdrop ideology for the extremists) - I can see the wisdom in complete closure of the border. I was more asking how Western people are going to square the circle on the rule of law while trying to back expulsion policies for non-criminal citizens and how they will get their demographics back on track, and these kind of fundamental questions.

but 99% of Moslems wouldn’t even understand

That's a bit hyperbolic honestly, but - I fully agree - far too many are causing too much trouble. Likely it won't matter - if enough of them act stupid and cause trouble in the West and we can't control them (I'm talking about the ethnic gangs acting like thugs, idiots talking about how they're going to enforce Shariah on non-Muslims, etc.), I wouldn't be surprised at a loss of patience and collective punishment being meted out to us as a whole. It sucks and it may not be right, but sometimes one has to read history and face reality.

Ron Paul...man did we miss the boat on that one.

Anyway, thanks for bringing it back into the civil level, pardon is asked for any insults that I may have delivered in a zealous moment.

Peace.

*Note: Do you know the Ottomans expended two full field armies to push this thing back into the Najd area from where it arose? The British revived it and helped put it in charge of both the Holy Cities and the massive oil fields - the Hell were they thinking?

She seems pretty fair. You should read what she has to say about the so-called Pope. It's worth a few minutes. I give people a fair shot - I just read through all your comments on this thread here.

Here's what I think. This part is almost right:

Dang – someone gets it! Don’t invade and there won’t be a need to invite!

Don't invade and don't invite (there's never a need for the American people, just the elites who want to wipe out the middle class). FIFY, as they say.

I'd also agree that citizenship should not be revoked, unless obtained under false pretenses, - though that seems to happen a lot lately.

I think you are wrong, and I'd venture to say most on this blog would agree with me, about your saying that religion is stronger than tribal instincts. That's the problem we have - Moslems will stick together and you can note that there are not near a majority that will condemn any violence on Moslems' part, no matter whether it was in your book or not, and whether any of them read it or not.

If you think that only your people have the "correct" interpretation of the Koran, then your religion is like Catholicism in the Middle Ages, when only the priests, who knew Latin, could read the Bible and tell what it said. I haven't read any of the Koran, so I get what I hear from others. Miss Barnhardt was reading from it verbatim - true only a few parts, but she's pretty straight on everything - hardcore, but straight. (Again, read what she has to say about this so-called Pope they got over there.)

That all said, I forgot that you said you were a man, till I re-read above posts, so sorry; your logic is decent but you have a few wrong premises. The number one thing is that the West needs more Moslems like another hole in the head. I can't stand that wailing and uvulating either. It's not who WE are.

(I am glad you like Ron Paul, so there's that in common , but 99% of Moslems wouldn't even understand the concepts of "rule of law, not men", "due process" or any of that, never ever.)

Hey AEN,

Excellent – some points of reasonable discourse!

I’d also agree that citizenship should not be revoked, unless obtained under false pretenses

Solid Anglo-Saxon sense of rule of law – though not sure you are Anglo or not. I hold people that honor principle in serious respect – it is in short supply.

I think you are wrong, and I’d venture to say most on this blog would agree with me, about your saying that religion is stronger than tribal instincts.

That’s fine, the West has been without serious religion for a while so I can understand that and often it led to wars (though it did also unite them for the Crusades and such). In our history we had less intra-religious wars and it was specifically the groups and leaders that could rally multiple ethnicities under the banner of religion that were the most successful whether in military conflict (I mean, what the heck was Salahuddin [ra] – a Kurd – doing running Egypt and managing an army composed of Circassians, Seljuks, Arabs, Nubians, etc.) or in managing society. The genius was in how to leverage the unique aptitudes and skills of the various people while balancing how to keep everyone working together – and religion worked well for that. Again, our history is different than yours and our theology is different and thus, naturally, leads to different conclusions. By the way, this is a great lesson (if you have about 10 minutes) on why we are clinging so closely to our tradition in this post-modern age:

If you think that only your people have the “correct” interpretation of the Koran

If you mean by qualified Muslim scholars as a whole, then there are two aspects; 1) there are legitimate differences of opinion, 2) when there is a consensus on an issue – then this is the correct opinion – this is what Islam says. This aspect is in our name:
“All Muslims are guided by the Sunnah, but Sunnis stress it, as well as consensus (ijma; the full name of Sunnis is Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Ijma, people of the Sunnah and consensus).”

Non-Muslim voices do not count, whether they interpret our religion positively or negatively; it is an internal affair. Just like Catholic doctrine doesn’t care what Jews or materialists conclude on religious precepts.

so I get what I hear from others

Fine, but who are the others? That is the question.

Miss Barnhardt was reading from it verbatim – true only a few parts, but she’s pretty straight on everything – hardcore, but straight.

Look, we’re being honest with each other, so here’s the deal. Do you really, really expect me to believe some random woman on the internet (who doesn’t have the basic grasp of Arabic grammar) knows what she is talking about? I’ve studied jurisprudence and continue to do so (part time) under three qualified Muftis of the Hanafi school. I cannot begin to describe how daft her understanding is. The Qur’an says a bunch of stuff, some has to do with war, some has to do with peace. Anybody who is looking for what they want to see will indeed find what they are looking for, but that is the problem. This is not a boy-scout religion, trying to derive rules is extremely dangerous for the unqualified, it takes decades of study under others who have had decades of study to be able to derive these rulings. This is a good article by a mufti (a White convert at that) in the Shafi’i school who received his credentials at Al-Azhar:

The fact that she and Daesh essentially come to the same conclusions – in contradiction to the majority voice of our scholars means one thing to me; if she converted tomorrow, she would be an immmediate security threat. If you want to know what the experts in our religion feel about these issues, then read this (and scroll down to the bottom to see the list and qualification of the signatories):

I have zero problems with people criticizing Islam to the sky and back, but at least be honest and criticize what it actually says – not some straw man derived from one’s own ignorance – that’s not that much to ask. I’ve seen some very good, honest academic criticisms, but they are in the tiny minority.

I read a little of what she said about the Pope – not my religion, so I have no dog in the fight. But again, I ask, what are her qualifications to criticize him? Anybody can criticize anything; my plumber can criticize gravitational waves or string theory, but why should I care what he says? Just because he has a blog? People’s cats have blogs:

In this age of information glut and everyone wanting their fifteen minutes of fame, one must learn to sift through the garbage or they’ll trash their minds.

The number one thing is that the West needs more Moslems like another hole in the head.

That was not my premise. As I’ve said before – I can totally understand this the West seems to be demographically shrinking, they have lost their mojo. Every nation has a right to set immigration policies it feels are best for its future. If the people of the US decided they only wanted nubile Brazilian women with certain chest and hip ratios – it is fully within their rights. Being that we are currently dealing with an Islamic reformation (that’s right – people who want Islamic reform – this is the reformation, how do you like it so far) attempt gone seriously wrong (the Salafi-Wahhabi* school that is only about 150 years old has splintered and almost exclusively is the backdrop ideology for the extremists) – I can see the wisdom in complete closure of the border. I was more asking how Western people are going to square the circle on the rule of law while trying to back expulsion policies for non-criminal citizens and how they will get their demographics back on track, and these kind of fundamental questions.

but 99% of Moslems wouldn’t even understand

That’s a bit hyperbolic honestly, but – I fully agree – far too many are causing too much trouble. Likely it won’t matter – if enough of them act stupid and cause trouble in the West and we can’t control them (I’m talking about the ethnic gangs acting like thugs, idiots talking about how they’re going to enforce Shariah on non-Muslims, etc.), I wouldn’t be surprised at a loss of patience and collective punishment being meted out to us as a whole. It sucks and it may not be right, but sometimes one has to read history and face reality.

Ron Paul…man did we miss the boat on that one.

Anyway, thanks for bringing it back into the civil level, pardon is asked for any insults that I may have delivered in a zealous moment.

Peace.

*Note: Do you know the Ottomans expended two full field armies to push this thing back into the Najd area from where it arose? The British revived it and helped put it in charge of both the Holy Cities and the massive oil fields – the Hell were they thinking?

I’d also agree that citizenship should not be revoked, unless obtained under false pretenses

Solid Anglo-Saxon sense of rule of law - though not sure you are Anglo or not. I hold people that honor principle in serious respect - it is in short supply.

I think you are wrong, and I’d venture to say most on this blog would agree with me, about your saying that religion is stronger than tribal instincts.

That's fine, the West has been without serious religion for a while so I can understand that and often it led to wars (though it did also unite them for the Crusades and such). In our history we had less intra-religious wars and it was specifically the groups and leaders that could rally multiple ethnicities under the banner of religion that were the most successful whether in military conflict (I mean, what the heck was Salahuddin [ra] - a Kurd - doing running Egypt and managing an army composed of Circassians, Seljuks, Arabs, Nubians, etc.) or in managing society. The genius was in how to leverage the unique aptitudes and skills of the various people while balancing how to keep everyone working together - and religion worked well for that. Again, our history is different than yours and our theology is different and thus, naturally, leads to different conclusions. By the way, this is a great lesson (if you have about 10 minutes) on why we are clinging so closely to our tradition in this post-modern age:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kDbqABvEN0

If you think that only your people have the “correct” interpretation of the Koran

If you mean by qualified Muslim scholars as a whole, then there are two aspects; 1) there are legitimate differences of opinion, 2) when there is a consensus on an issue - then this is the correct opinion - this is what Islam says. This aspect is in our name:"All Muslims are guided by the Sunnah, but Sunnis stress it, as well as consensus (ijma; the full name of Sunnis is Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Ijma, people of the Sunnah and consensus)."http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t125/e2280

Non-Muslim voices do not count, whether they interpret our religion positively or negatively; it is an internal affair. Just like Catholic doctrine doesn't care what Jews or materialists conclude on religious precepts.

so I get what I hear from others

Fine, but who are the others? That is the question.

Miss Barnhardt was reading from it verbatim – true only a few parts, but she’s pretty straight on everything – hardcore, but straight.

Look, we're being honest with each other, so here's the deal. Do you really, really expect me to believe some random woman on the internet (who doesn't have the basic grasp of Arabic grammar) knows what she is talking about? I've studied jurisprudence and continue to do so (part time) under three qualified Muftis of the Hanafi school. I cannot begin to describe how daft her understanding is. The Qur'an says a bunch of stuff, some has to do with war, some has to do with peace. Anybody who is looking for what they want to see will indeed find what they are looking for, but that is the problem. This is not a boy-scout religion, trying to derive rules is extremely dangerous for the unqualified, it takes decades of study under others who have had decades of study to be able to derive these rulings. This is a good article by a mufti (a White convert at that) in the Shafi'i school who received his credentials at Al-Azhar:http://seekershub.org/blog/2012/08/what-is-a-fatwa-who-can-give-one-by-sheikh-musa-furber-washington-post/

The fact that she and Daesh essentially come to the same conclusions - in contradiction to the majority voice of our scholars means one thing to me; if she converted tomorrow, she would be an immmediate security threat. If you want to know what the experts in our religion feel about these issues, then read this (and scroll down to the bottom to see the list and qualification of the signatories):http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com/14/english-v14.pdf

I have zero problems with people criticizing Islam to the sky and back, but at least be honest and criticize what it actually says - not some straw man derived from one's own ignorance - that's not that much to ask. I've seen some very good, honest academic criticisms, but they are in the tiny minority.

I read a little of what she said about the Pope - not my religion, so I have no dog in the fight. But again, I ask, what are her qualifications to criticize him? Anybody can criticize anything; my plumber can criticize gravitational waves or string theory, but why should I care what he says? Just because he has a blog? People's cats have blogs:http://www.wwwallaboutcats.com/blog/top-cat-blogs-of-2016/

In this age of information glut and everyone wanting their fifteen minutes of fame, one must learn to sift through the garbage or they'll trash their minds.

The number one thing is that the West needs more Moslems like another hole in the head.

That was not my premise. As I've said before - I can totally understand this the West seems to be demographically shrinking, they have lost their mojo. Every nation has a right to set immigration policies it feels are best for its future. If the people of the US decided they only wanted nubile Brazilian women with certain chest and hip ratios - it is fully within their rights. Being that we are currently dealing with an Islamic reformation (that's right - people who want Islamic reform - this is the reformation, how do you like it so far) attempt gone seriously wrong (the Salafi-Wahhabi* school that is only about 150 years old has splintered and almost exclusively is the backdrop ideology for the extremists) - I can see the wisdom in complete closure of the border. I was more asking how Western people are going to square the circle on the rule of law while trying to back expulsion policies for non-criminal citizens and how they will get their demographics back on track, and these kind of fundamental questions.

but 99% of Moslems wouldn’t even understand

That's a bit hyperbolic honestly, but - I fully agree - far too many are causing too much trouble. Likely it won't matter - if enough of them act stupid and cause trouble in the West and we can't control them (I'm talking about the ethnic gangs acting like thugs, idiots talking about how they're going to enforce Shariah on non-Muslims, etc.), I wouldn't be surprised at a loss of patience and collective punishment being meted out to us as a whole. It sucks and it may not be right, but sometimes one has to read history and face reality.

Ron Paul...man did we miss the boat on that one.

Anyway, thanks for bringing it back into the civil level, pardon is asked for any insults that I may have delivered in a zealous moment.

Peace.

*Note: Do you know the Ottomans expended two full field armies to push this thing back into the Najd area from where it arose? The British revived it and helped put it in charge of both the Holy Cities and the massive oil fields - the Hell were they thinking?

I’d also agree that citizenship should not be revoked, unless obtained under false pretenses

Solid Anglo-Saxon sense of rule of law - though not sure you are Anglo or not. I hold people that honor principle in serious respect - it is in short supply.

I think you are wrong, and I’d venture to say most on this blog would agree with me, about your saying that religion is stronger than tribal instincts.

That's fine, the West has been without serious religion for a while so I can understand that and often it led to wars (though it did also unite them for the Crusades and such). In our history we had less intra-religious wars and it was specifically the groups and leaders that could rally multiple ethnicities under the banner of religion that were the most successful whether in military conflict (I mean, what the heck was Salahuddin [ra] - a Kurd - doing running Egypt and managing an army composed of Circassians, Seljuks, Arabs, Nubians, etc.) or in managing society. The genius was in how to leverage the unique aptitudes and skills of the various people while balancing how to keep everyone working together - and religion worked well for that. Again, our history is different than yours and our theology is different and thus, naturally, leads to different conclusions. By the way, this is a great lesson (if you have about 10 minutes) on why we are clinging so closely to our tradition in this post-modern age:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kDbqABvEN0

If you think that only your people have the “correct” interpretation of the Koran

If you mean by qualified Muslim scholars as a whole, then there are two aspects; 1) there are legitimate differences of opinion, 2) when there is a consensus on an issue - then this is the correct opinion - this is what Islam says. This aspect is in our name:"All Muslims are guided by the Sunnah, but Sunnis stress it, as well as consensus (ijma; the full name of Sunnis is Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Ijma, people of the Sunnah and consensus)."http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t125/e2280

Non-Muslim voices do not count, whether they interpret our religion positively or negatively; it is an internal affair. Just like Catholic doctrine doesn't care what Jews or materialists conclude on religious precepts.

so I get what I hear from others

Fine, but who are the others? That is the question.

Miss Barnhardt was reading from it verbatim – true only a few parts, but she’s pretty straight on everything – hardcore, but straight.

Look, we're being honest with each other, so here's the deal. Do you really, really expect me to believe some random woman on the internet (who doesn't have the basic grasp of Arabic grammar) knows what she is talking about? I've studied jurisprudence and continue to do so (part time) under three qualified Muftis of the Hanafi school. I cannot begin to describe how daft her understanding is. The Qur'an says a bunch of stuff, some has to do with war, some has to do with peace. Anybody who is looking for what they want to see will indeed find what they are looking for, but that is the problem. This is not a boy-scout religion, trying to derive rules is extremely dangerous for the unqualified, it takes decades of study under others who have had decades of study to be able to derive these rulings. This is a good article by a mufti (a White convert at that) in the Shafi'i school who received his credentials at Al-Azhar:http://seekershub.org/blog/2012/08/what-is-a-fatwa-who-can-give-one-by-sheikh-musa-furber-washington-post/

The fact that she and Daesh essentially come to the same conclusions - in contradiction to the majority voice of our scholars means one thing to me; if she converted tomorrow, she would be an immmediate security threat. If you want to know what the experts in our religion feel about these issues, then read this (and scroll down to the bottom to see the list and qualification of the signatories):http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com/14/english-v14.pdf

I have zero problems with people criticizing Islam to the sky and back, but at least be honest and criticize what it actually says - not some straw man derived from one's own ignorance - that's not that much to ask. I've seen some very good, honest academic criticisms, but they are in the tiny minority.

I read a little of what she said about the Pope - not my religion, so I have no dog in the fight. But again, I ask, what are her qualifications to criticize him? Anybody can criticize anything; my plumber can criticize gravitational waves or string theory, but why should I care what he says? Just because he has a blog? People's cats have blogs:http://www.wwwallaboutcats.com/blog/top-cat-blogs-of-2016/

In this age of information glut and everyone wanting their fifteen minutes of fame, one must learn to sift through the garbage or they'll trash their minds.

The number one thing is that the West needs more Moslems like another hole in the head.

That was not my premise. As I've said before - I can totally understand this the West seems to be demographically shrinking, they have lost their mojo. Every nation has a right to set immigration policies it feels are best for its future. If the people of the US decided they only wanted nubile Brazilian women with certain chest and hip ratios - it is fully within their rights. Being that we are currently dealing with an Islamic reformation (that's right - people who want Islamic reform - this is the reformation, how do you like it so far) attempt gone seriously wrong (the Salafi-Wahhabi* school that is only about 150 years old has splintered and almost exclusively is the backdrop ideology for the extremists) - I can see the wisdom in complete closure of the border. I was more asking how Western people are going to square the circle on the rule of law while trying to back expulsion policies for non-criminal citizens and how they will get their demographics back on track, and these kind of fundamental questions.

but 99% of Moslems wouldn’t even understand

That's a bit hyperbolic honestly, but - I fully agree - far too many are causing too much trouble. Likely it won't matter - if enough of them act stupid and cause trouble in the West and we can't control them (I'm talking about the ethnic gangs acting like thugs, idiots talking about how they're going to enforce Shariah on non-Muslims, etc.), I wouldn't be surprised at a loss of patience and collective punishment being meted out to us as a whole. It sucks and it may not be right, but sometimes one has to read history and face reality.

Ron Paul...man did we miss the boat on that one.

Anyway, thanks for bringing it back into the civil level, pardon is asked for any insults that I may have delivered in a zealous moment.

Peace.

*Note: Do you know the Ottomans expended two full field armies to push this thing back into the Najd area from where it arose? The British revived it and helped put it in charge of both the Holy Cities and the massive oil fields - the Hell were they thinking?

The British revived it and helped put it in charge of both the Holy Cities and the massive oil fields – the Hell were they thinking?

History repeats again and again. Europe was Christian and the Muslims invaded and forced sharia law on the native populations. The moors conquered much of Spain. The turks made it to the gates of Vienna. The Muslims were eventually forced out and now are returning after 500 years. The hordes will not stop until the money they are after dries up. Western welfare states and governments will be sucked dry to the point of insolvency by the Muslim hordes. This is what Derbyshire is saying. People are finally waking up and want to block the hordes.

After reading the comments I don’t get the Jewish connection in all of this. Remember the western majority Christian countries are being invaded. It is Merkel’s government that is allowing the hordes in. Is Merkel Jew? Hollander a Jew? Sweden and Norway are run by Jews? Britain Scotland Wales Ireland? Italy Spain? Jews individually and/or as a group have no say in the matter. Jewish has nothing to do with it.

To use the progressive lexicon and allusions Islam in the 21th century is like Nazism in the 1930s-40s. It is not merely a religion, it never was (it’s a long story to tell), it is a political hatred movement with the goal to dominate the world. Be with them, submit to them or die. That’s their slogan. So there is nothing bad in hating Islam like back then many people hated Nazism. Islam=Nazism, Saudi King=Hitler, ISIS=SS. But never interpret this wrong. As there was Nazism and there were the German people, thus there is Islam as a wicked evil ideology and there are 1 billion misguided deluded people, and the goal is to attempt to cure them from their evil illusions. The best cure to Islam is not tolerance but mockery and skepticism, which must result in no Islam whatsoever, e.g. agnosticism or atheism.

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