Well Boom IF that kid Workman gets into the starting rotation next year, I say he gets as many wins as whoever gets the most this year among Doobie, Lackey, or Dempster. If he's a starter and doesn't do that, then I'll buy you two Maine lobsters, and if you don't live too far away, I'll cook them too. I'm no Polly when it comes to this kid.

Well Boom IF that kid Workman gets into the starting rotation next year, I say he gets as many wins as whoever gets the most this year among Doobie, Lackey, or Dempster. If he's a starter and doesn't do that, then I'll buy you two Maine lobsters, and if you don't live too far away, I'll cook them too. I'm no Polly when it comes to this kid.

Critter

I still think Owens and Ranaudo are our two prime pitching prospects. Webster is 3rd in my book.

Although soxprospects.com has barnes ahead of Workman, I'd call them about tied. Ball and Britton are in the same area on soxprospects.com.

Some are closer to ML ready than others, but here's how soxprospects.com rates the pitchers:

Well Boom IF that kid Workman gets into the starting rotation next year, I say he gets as many wins as whoever gets the most this year among Doobie, Lackey, or Dempster. If he's a starter and doesn't do that, then I'll buy you two Maine lobsters, and if you don't live too far away, I'll cook them too. I'm no Polly when it comes to this kid.

Critter

Polly... er..I mean Crit! ( I'm just kidding Crit..I'm the biggest Polly here and we are just now leaning at the finish line. We are both Pollys! )

I agree that Workman is a great young pitcher. I like him a lot. I believe I have been one of his biggest and earliest advocates here but he doesn't have a lot of pitches in his bag of tricks and the 2nd and 3rd time through a lineup are not going to be friendly for him!

All that said the guy throws strikes and he should be durable as heck. And if he can maintain his level of control can he be a Bronson Arroyo round 2? Of course he can. Some guys can live off their fastball command forever. And I do like his curve as well. I believe he has a little bit of a cutter going on as well if I remember correctly. I'm not disagreeing that he could be a decent starter. I'm saying for us, with really 6 veteran starters already under contract for next year, not counting Morales or any of the other prospects really, I think Workman is going to have a hard time working into the rotation. I also think he is better suited to the pen right now. Maybe even as a 7th or 8th inning guy though. He is of substantial value.

Those numbers Moon cited above for Workman are pretty cool. If he doesn't allow many inherited runners to score that is a very good thing. I like his mental toughness.

His underlying data is better than his current ERA. He is probably under rated by most people here I bet.

Which brings me to a point which needs to be said. Soxprospects is clearly the best resource we have in evaluating prospects but they are not always correct either are they. Remember Lars Anderson? Yamaico Navaro? Lin? Lots of guys who were in favor but never really lived up to the billing and others who were talented ( like Workman IMO ) who were never given enough credit. I'd add Lavarnway and Nava to that list also and of course there are more. Iglesias even. I don't think Nava ever cracked the top 10 and when I advocated for him it was an avalanche of "forget about him. He's too old. He'll never make it". And the guy keep hitting .340 every year with extremely good obp.

Workman never cracked much into the top 10 for them either as far as I can tell but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he tops everyone they have down there except Owens. I'm not projecting that but it wouldn't surprise me if that happened. I'm not ruling Webster out but if he can't keep his pitches down all the time he is going to get hammered. Rubby has the best change up in the organization except Buchholz but if he doesn't have better fastball command he will never even make it as a good reliever. Barnes needs to develop his secondary stuff a lot. Ranaudo needs work on his secondary stuff also. Some guys never, ever get it no matter how auspicious their beginnings.

I like Trey Ball a lot also but there is no way he would have been my top pick. He pitched in Indiana against light weight competition and he is just flat out a very high risk, high reward type guy. Too risky in my opinion for a #7 pick. Hopefully we will strike lightning. I'd like to remain a Polly for years to come!

RP, yes soxprospects has gotten some guys way way wrong, but for the most part, they have been pretty close.

As far as I can tell, Workman started out at #19 back in 9/10 and got as high as #14 in 2011 and #11 in 2012. He started this year out at #14 and on June 13 was rated #11. He was recently bumped up to #10.

I looked back as far as 2003 to see if any soxprospects.com players ranked 10 or below made it to a significant major league level of play.

Hey Boom, you taught me how to be a Polly. I don't think I'll have to come up with the lobsters because he probably will be a reliever next year. But I don't think you guys give him enough love. Here's what I think I saw this summer. Every time he was given a start he pitched a tight close game, giving the team a solid chance to win. Seems like his record was about 2-3, but that was more about runs scored than his pitching. I don't remember a bad game. I recall him being called in long relief a couple times and pulling the game out after someone else's poor start. I do recall one bad outing but I honestly thought Farrell--who has made few mistakes--really put him in a bad place where he didn't belong, and the next day the Boston beat writers said the same. he seems poised, tough, a bit of a bull dog. I liked Webster too, but he seemed "on" this game and "off" next game, like a Typical young pitcher. Workman seemed more matture. Right now he is doing it and those other guys are just potential. I may be blowing him up too much but He may be my favorite "new" player--like Iggy was before the trade. He got those fast balls and curves over for strikes... Critter

That post above is really interesting Moon. it's fun to see those names in the near past and ponder what they've done. I was all about Bowden too-- saw that big body and thought he could have it all--alas, he could never put it all together. I loved Masterson too. We've really a few guys doing well for other teams...Thanks for that look...

That post above is really interesting Moon. it's fun to see those names in the near past and ponder what they've done. I was all about Bowden too-- saw that big body and thought he could have it all--alas, he could never put it all together. I loved Masterson too. We've really a few guys doing well for other teams...Thanks for that look...

RP, yes soxprospects has gotten some guys way way wrong, but for the most part, they have been pretty close.

As far as I can tell, Workman started out at #19 back in 9/10 and got as high as #14 in 2011 and #11 in 2012. He started this year out at #14 and on June 13 was rated #11. He was recently bumped up to #10.

I looked back as far as 2003 to see if any soxprospects.com players ranked 10 or below made it to a significant major league level of play.

I'm not trying to be critical of them either. I'm just saying they are not the gospel any more than baseball america is or other top sites. They are a tremendous resource but sometimes even real solid guys get overlooked and like every forum I've ever seen there is a herd mentality where some of the leaders say one thing and most people fall in line.

Like here Moon. You are like EF Hutton. You talk and everyone listens!

Hey Boom, you taught me how to be a Polly. I don't think I'll have to come up with the lobsters because he probably will be a reliever next year. But I don't think you guys give him enough love. Here's what I think I saw this summer. Every time he was given a start he pitched a tight close game, giving the team a solid chance to win. Seems like his record was about 2-3, but that was more about runs scored than his pitching. I don't remember a bad game. I recall him being called in long relief a couple times and pulling the game out after someone else's poor start. I do recall one bad outing but I honestly thought Farrell--who has made few mistakes--really put him in a bad place where he didn't belong, and the next day the Boston beat writers said the same. he seems poised, tough, a bit of a bull dog. I liked Webster too, but he seemed "on" this game and "off" next game, like a Typical young pitcher. Workman seemed more matture. Right now he is doing it and those other guys are just potential. I may be blowing him up too much but He may be my favorite "new" player--like Iggy was before the trade. He got those fast balls and curves over for strikes... Critter

I kind of am agreeing Crit. I did say he might end up being one of our top 2 current pitching prospects ( see above ). I gave Owens an edge and one or 2 of the other guys may well top him just from sheer numbers but I think he is right there with Ranaudo, Barnes, Webster, De Larosa. His stuff may not be as good but he should be durable and the guy throws strikes. Something the other guys have not learned yet.

RP, yes soxprospects has gotten some guys way way wrong, but for the most part, they have been pretty close.

As far as I can tell, Workman started out at #19 back in 9/10 and got as high as #14 in 2011 and #11 in 2012. He started this year out at #14 and on June 13 was rated #11. He was recently bumped up to #10.

I looked back as far as 2003 to see if any soxprospects.com players ranked 10 or below made it to a significant major league level of play.

I'm not trying to be critical of them either. I'm just saying they are not the gospel any more than baseball america is or other top sites. They are a tremendous resource but sometimes even real solid guys get overlooked and like every forum I've ever seen there is a herd mentality where some of the leaders say one thing and most people fall in line.

Like here Moon. You are like EF Hutton. You talk and everyone listens!

Of course nobody is perfect at projecting prospects. If they were, they'd be working for a team, not soxprospects.com or Baseball America.

By and large, soxprospects does a pretty good job, and like you said, they are an excellent resource. The ones they got wrong, like Lars, they were not alone. Most services had Lars up pretty high among other Sox prospects.

Moon, don't mean to bother your thread, but if the Rays wind up 10 games behind the Sox, that woud mean all of the East would be double-digits behind the Sox. Do you know if that has happened before? It's pretty amazing, especially when this year it was thought to be such a tough division. Just curious if you know. Thanks. :)

Looks like we have guys on the major league roster as well as chips below to get a good power hitter AND upgrade starters if we want...

Critter

I know Ben likes his kids, but I would not be surprised if we pull off a shocker this winter to get a real big bopper for the middle of our order (more likely), or a true ace for our staff (less likely now, maybe more likely next winter).

Having watched both Swihart and Vasquez play, I can't think of any reason that Vasquez would not be rated higher beyond the two years age difference. I've never seen him make a bad play, but Vasquez does have a lot of passed balls; not sure if some of that is from catching knucklers. I can guarantee that no catcher in the entire organization throws as well as Vasquez. Between the two of these guys, and the likelyhood that Salty will be extended, Lavarnway becomes expendable this off-season.

Looks like we have guys on the major league roster as well as chips below to get a good power hitter AND upgrade starters if we want...

Critter

I know Ben likes his kids, but I would not be surprised if we pull off a shocker this winter to get a real big bopper for the middle of our order (more likely), or a true ace for our staff (less likely now, maybe more likely next winter).

Moon, beyond Stanton, who might that bopper be? I know nothing about the Cuban that Boom writes about often, but he wouldn't cost any prospects. Stanton comes with a big red flag in my opinion; he leads MLB in errors among outfielders, in spite of missing lots of time. Pence doesn't excite me. I really don't follow the weaker teams enough to know who might fit the bopper discription. I think much of this year's team comes back next year as is and any blockbuster deal would have ramifications for 2015 and beyond.