Relative vs Absolute Sex Rank and the Forty-Year-Old Wife

DrocK: Fun thing to try! Since it can be a challenge to set-up a good Dread Game scenario, especially early on, I’ve found that there are mildly effective ways to get your own ‘in-house’ game going and throw her Hamster through a loop just by pushing the right buttons. While not as effective as getting real IOI’s, it’s a good way to mess with her a little bit, generate a little sexual tension and can have a profound effect if you’re creative about it. Case-in-point – I casually threw out the Old Guy vs. Young Guy game idea at my wife over the weekend by simply shaping it as a question. She’s loosely aware that I’m MAPping, but is not aware of MMSL. We’ve been sexless for about ~55 weeks or so (not that anyone’s counting!), but things are improving quickly and dramatically.

So I asked her who she thinks would have a better chance at winning her over – the Young Me that got her when we met (at 23) or the now me about 10 years later. I don’t doubt that I’m much wiser and more attractive now, so I was comfortable asking her. Might not work too well if you’re brand new to MAPing, so the timing could make a difference. So she said the now, older me. Hands down. I let her think about it for a few seconds and then clarified, ‘WE ARE talking about winning over the 20 y/o you from 10 years ago… still think the now me would have a better shot?” Again, yes, without hesitation she affirmed that the now me is far more attractive and would get the ‘younger her’ attention much more readily vs. the younger me.

After that I didn’t have to say anything at all. Just watching the wheels turn and the expression on her face change slowly from ‘happily content with my more attractive husband’ to ‘holy shit, I could lose him to a friggin’ 20 year-old if I don’t step it up’ was classic.

Athol: If there’s a single moment women have where they get the Red Pill for themselves, it’s the moment when they realize relative Sex Rank doesn’t count, only absolute Sex Rank does.

Women all start off their sex lives pretty close to the peak of their attractiveness and are very attuned to their peer group. So they think of themselves as being hot relative to their peer group cohort…. and then keep thinking of themselves as being hot relative to their peer group as they age. So if a twenty-year-old looks at her peer group and decides she’s a 9… she’s a 9. But then twenty years later when she’s forty, when she looks at her peer group of other forty-year-old women and decides she’s a 9… newsflash, she’s not a 9.

Obviously the same woman at age 20 isn’t going to be as hot at age 40. Relative to her girlfriends, she may still be the hot one, but in absolute terms compared to all the women in the Sexual Marketplace… maybe she’s a 6 or a 7. Hell if she got properly fat, maybe she’s a 4. Meanwhile her husband has potentially continued to gain Sex Rank as he gains money, power and social influence.

This is utterly horrifying for women to realize.

It’s a bitter pill to men to realize they screwed up a bunch of stuff in the past, but at least there’s a hope for the future. Sure it’s hard work turning things around, but every single guy that’s run the MAP, eventually gets to a sexy outcome if they put the effort in and make the hard choices. It may take a couple years to get there, but there’s always hope.

Women are just screwed though. You’re forty. The best bit is over, you’ll never be as hot as you were. This is as good as it gets. Please keep your arms and legs inside the train, it’s all downhill from here. Abandon all hope ye who enter here.

Actually that’s not entirely true. There’s a loophole that will carry you into your golden years, loved and desired… your husband’s oneitis.

So if you are an older girl, yes you’re getting older, but you don’t just throw on sweatpants, give up and plan to negotiate for alimony, chocolate ice cream and cats. You age gracefully. You exercise, you wear makeup, you play with him, you keep your game on. Yes it’s all building a sand castle below the high tide mark, but that’s what life is all about anyway. You battle to the end in a mighty effort, repairing, rebuilding, until that one wave that’s unstoppable washes over it all and it’s finally gone. It’s hopeless, it’s always been hopeless, but that’s okay.

If you’re a woman, if you keep your attractiveness together as best you can, that’s going to trigger his oneitis, his memory of the young you imprinted on him. You’ll be fifty-three and dancing with him, a shot of your cleavage, your smell, your touch, those same adoring eyes… and you’re twenty-three again. Maybe no one else sees it, but he will, because he has oneitis. He’ll look around at all the other husbands with chubby screechtards and think to himself, relative to everyone else, he’s got it really good.

But leave it too long. Don’t bother trying. Ignore him. Shun him from your bed. Eventually the scales will fall from his eyes.

If you’re a husband, the dread of relative and absolute Sex Rank can wake her up. Indeed if it does, it’s potentially doing her a favor. She shouldn’t confuse the fiction of older women in the dating market with the reality of it.

…

The truth is, most husbands idly fantasize about hooking up with younger women, I mean I do. But given a choice between a bunch of hook ups, short term relationships an/or a soft harem of younger women… most husbands would still choose their wife provided they had reasonable assurance there would be a good sex life with her. The kids, the history, the aroma of… pie.

Personally I don’t need Jennifer to be twenty again. Forty is fine. Just a good forty.

Comments

I think the horror women experience at absolute sex rank helps explain their comments about older men with much younger women. That’s disgusting, they say. I started questioning this. Why, I ask? There really isn’t a good answer. (Men rarely express that disgust and when they do, I think it is because they have a daughter, who they imagine with an older man.)

As a 45 yr old guy who was happy with the stale crackerjacks, but ended up with an empty box, I was all, LULZ. When it comes down to it, the empty box is what she really ended up with. That and second thoughts…

Very, very interesting. Basically, oneitis is what makes women disrespect their husbands, take us for granted and treat us like shit. Yet, it is the very thing that gives women hope of still having a mate years after their peak attractiveness is a distant memory. Nature certainly has a sense of humor. A sick sense of humor, but a sense of humor nonetheless.

@RedPillAwakening Yes, it’s certainly ironic!
@Athol_Kay Your insight and ability to spell things out perfectly is inspiring. Thanks for the good work.
The red pill is bitter but I’m having relative success with it. More MAPping to do!

This is not the whole truth. Athol you still have the blue pill in you. You still speak and teach as a consumer.

Oneitis is not what actually keeps a mans heart warm as this wife ages as powerful men don’t have oneitis. The man’s heart is kept warm if the woman has given him children (and hasn’t taken them away trough divorce) . Realize this – family without children is not a family. A couple is not a family. Marriage without children is pointless. A man wants to see his genes, his values and his wealth to live on trough his children. For this and this alone he truly needs a woman (no not even for sex – his fist would do). And for this and only this – being a god and faithful mother he still loves his wife even as she ages.

But its still natural for him to desire and even marry younger women who are on their prime. And this is where modern institutional monogamy causes much harm and evil – by forcing the choice upon a man to either pursue younger women and abandon the mother of his children or shut his eyes and pretend to not see both the young beauties and the wrinkles of his wife.

The nature has created man with a wide potential for loving multiple women. He can still love and care about his old wife while also loving a new one. He is not like a woman who’ s womb carries a child from a one man only and who thus has a place for only one man in her heart and who must kill all love and respect and even sometimes all mere compassion for her previous man to love another man. And ironically it is the self imposed guardian of natures and Gods laws – the Church who preaches this unnatural order of mandatory monogamy above all else.

With all due respect to the truths you have discovered and are teaching trough this blog – you are just another western consumer who thinks he can escape the aspect of giving by having children and can just keep extracting pleasure from every person around including his spouse. Look you have created an art out of this – how to keep extracting mutual pleasure between a man and his wife long after the natural hormone rush is over. But at some point you will hit a brick wall anyway. You will understand that a lake with no river flowing from it turns into stinky swamp. The purpose of every union is giving and there is ultimately more pleasure in giving than in receiving while the pleasure from receiving is merely more immediate always. If you are not willing to give life and have children you will fell contempt for your old wife as she ages I assure you. Perhaps you can save yourself by giving in another way like helping other people in their marriages, if you make this the mission and a spiritual child for both of you therefore take care to do not become greedy and don’t do it more for the money then for your mission.

I needed to see this. I’m not as pretty as I was when I was 20 (when we married), but I’m in better shape, nicer to be around, we’re not feeding each other’s neuroses, and we’re having more sex than ever. Short of my husband getting a complete personality transplant (making him want lots of 20 y/os, rather than a good marriage), or either of us just stopping working on our marriage, we’ll be fine.

this doesn’t work so well when you marry ten years younger like i did.

dread game has no impact on my wife at all. none. she does respond to other things like dominance and overall dhv, but dread game? no chance.

when you marry the young hottie as number 2 you lose that arrow in your quiver. though maybe as we get older it might work…when i hit 40 and her 30, those 24 year olds may seem pretty competitive in her eyes

AnonJohn: Are you hitting the gym regularly? Do you go out with the guys once a month?

I disagree that dream game doesn’t work when the age gap is wider. I think it works just as well. Consider the following:

1. If she leaves you, she’s a young divorcee. Young women are (subconsciously) very afraid of this title, because it goes to show failure.

2. Her marrying you is DHV for the other young gals out there. If you get yourself ripped (I’m 38 and got down to 9/10% body fat in less than a year) or even jacked, the attention from younger women and even young women will happen. Charisma, physique, dominance: get them all in your arsenal.

3. Women do feel the effect of age after 25 moreso than guys do. When my hair picked up some whites, I started to get social compliments. Women freak out. When I added a wrinkle, compliments.

You’re selling yourself short if you think the age difference means you can’t incorporate a little dread game into your marriage. My other father was 50 when he married his current wife (she was 20 or so). Even now, he’s 72 and she’s 42, he uses dread game. Yes, at 72 with his charisma the old man still attracts younger and frisky women.

Articles like this are great motivation to get my MAP in gear (1st gear just ain’t cutting it, and neither are my excuses for going so danged slow, even if they’re theoretically valid). I know *exactly* what the marker is where I can make this wonderfully indirect point, and having it ready to go should keep me on track. There is no question that this is the wake-up method that will work, having sifted through a bejillion others that won’t. The point’s got to be made; I just have to be credible in the making.

“If you’re a husband, the dread of relative and absolute Sex Rank can wake her up. Indeed if it does, it’s potentially doing her a favor. She shouldn’t confuse the fiction of older women in the dating market with the reality of it.”

***JG: Yes. I think women, especially those in LTR’s, tend to confuse IOI’s for sex with IOI’s for entering an LTR…particularly if they got married in their early 20s. I think this leads to a LOT to bad female behavior. If you’re a decent guy in his 40s, you can SLAY them if you target such women who have been single for a couple of years…long enough for reality to seep in.

“The truth is, most husbands idly fantasize about hooking up with younger women, I mean I do. But given a choice between a bunch of hook ups, short term relationships an/or a soft harem of younger women… most husbands would still choose their wife provided they had reasonable assurance there would be a good sex life with her. The kids, the history, the aroma of… pie.”

***JG: Yes. I’ve had some experience with 20something women recently. I’d rather have STBX as of 5 years ago, complete with her extra pounds and wrinkles…than one of them, or a few of them. Seriously.

By the time a woman hits the wall, she’s either earned the goodwill of her husband, or not.

This is everything.

When she hits the wall, then either her husband has a decade or two of good memories with increasing respect and affection for her as she fulfills her role as wife and mother, or not. If not, then she becomes a burden to him once she’s no longer attractive.

If she’s been a good wife and mother, then he can’t really replace her. Their children don’t want a younger, hotter stepmom, they want their Mom. This is why in many cultures, it is considered acceptable for a man to take a mistress or second wife, but contemptible for a man to divorce. If your wife has given you the best years of her life, then you give her the best years of yours.

Good points here. You may have understated one advantage a wife has: her actual willingness, availability, and skill in sex. If you get to the point you’ve done it right with your wife, she knows what you like and can give it to you in ways that would be difficult for a hot young thing to duplicate. Also–experienced men know that young hotties can be spoiled, bait-and-switchers who show off but don’t put out. That’s a huge risk that a man whose wife keeps him happy in bed doesn’t have to take.

Actual sexual availability and creativity is a huge boost to the sex rank.

Also–the children are a big draw as well, as others have shown in the comments.

“After that I didn’t have to say anything at all. Just watching the wheels turn and the expression on her face change slowly from ‘happily content with my more attractive husband’ to ‘holy shit, I could lose him to a friggin’ 20 year-old if I don’t step it up’ was classic”

I should have done that with my X. I think a lot of women loose sight of the fact men who are reasonably happy view their wives through the “Husband Goggles”, I know I did. They’ll find out soon enough if they throw it all away that no “40/9” is even a 20/6 .

“Actual sexual availability and creativity is a huge boost to the sex rank.”

This.

I talk to a lot of women who are suddenly realizing that they are 40 and looking at cats, and who get massive depressed when I tell them the reality of the situation. But then they point out that their 40-something married friends are also hitting the wall — won’t their husbands dump them for a newer model, too?

I usually point out that an older man does want more variety and more intrigue in his sex life — we all like novelty, and after 20 years of “in, out, repeat as necessary” that most couples substitute for a sex life, the allure of something fresh, young, and relatively baggage-free sounds appealing. But new poon is not always the easiest way to get that. The easiest way to elicit new interest is to change things up and increase your frequency. If a dude is getting his oil changed four or five times a week, it’s difficult to look at a petulant little 25 year old entitlement princess as a serious mating option.

So if you’re worried his head might get turned by a 25 year old, then remind him that a 40 year knows things that a 20 year old can only guess at . . . and remind him frequently. THAT’S how you build a strong case of positive oneitis.

The worst part of the red pill for me is realizing just how badly I cheated him out of “the pretty” those years we were down in the dumps. It’s something that’ll eat me away inside for the rest of my life, despite how much he says it’s ok now.

“If there’s a single moment women have where they get the Red Pill for themselves, it’s the moment when they realize relative Sex Rank doesn’t count, only absolute Sex Rank does.”
This is more true than women want it to be, and less true than men want it to be.

Unfortunately, I learned the effectiveness of dread game after I was caught cheating with a 20 year younger and hotter woman. It was an awful, harrowing ordeal. However, my wife decided to try to work things out and snapped out of her weight gaining, sex depriving ways. Dread. It works.

“So if you’re worried his head might get turned by a 25 year old, then remind him that a 40 year knows things that a 20 year old can only guess at . . . and remind him frequently. THAT’S how you build a strong case of positive oneitis.”

Exactly. There are things that older women know and can do that give them an advantage over the young ones, but only if you’re talking about a man who’s at all interested in something more than a young pussy.

The sexual development of a woman doesn’t stop when she turns 40. Just because you don’t think an older woman has anything to offer doesn’t mean that she doesn’t. Women in their late 40’s, 50’s and 60’s are definitely not out of the competition.

Personally, it makes sense to me for men to go fuck some young ones from time to time, but then get most of their needs met by the woman at home who is much more capable of meeting those needs (physical, sexual, spiritual, intellectual needs) than a young one could ever be.

(Two more thoughts – A.B. Dada – “learn to be demure”. Seriously? I think by the time someone is in their late 30’s, there is no way to “learn” to be demure. They are or they aren’t, and many men are not very fond of demure. And to “Old and Alone” you are NOT old. Don’t let anyone convince you that you are.)

I wouldn’t say the bottom of the barrel, but you do need to take a very hard look at yourself and figure out why your first marriage failed. If you had anything to do with it, fix those problems first.

Then go hunting men in their mid-late 40s and early 50s. Look for character, not just pretty. Try eccentric sports groups.

“This is utterly horrifying for women to realize.” I fear this is projection. This may occasionally true – but only if their externals were their only fulfillment. This would be a sad female equivalent to the well known male “I played high school football and now that I’m older and have more muscle could play in the NFL” dreamer.

I adore men – real men, not the feminized sister-children representing the current gender claimants. Even so as a once “9/10” woman now entering her crone years the only horrifying thought is the increasing probability of physical illness. The truth is that loss of female attractiveness is horrifying to men. We women really don’t give a flip. (And that’s not necessarily a healthy attitude nor a supportive statement for womanhood on my part.) That women be reminded of this is in the same league as teaching men that joining the sisterhood will not provide a ticket to marital bliss.

@emptied. You may not give a flip about losing your looks. But most women were never ever 9’s or 10’s as you were. Women that are 7’s and below feel the loss very much.

With all due respect. You remind me of the rich, old person saying that money is no big deal. It never bought them happiness and they have no problems living on $10 million a year. Well most people are living on $50,000 a year.

Why do you believe women who were 7’s or below feel the loss of youth more? Are you saying that their ability to find a man plummets more quickly? Yes, the mundane majority of breeders need worry about loss of youth – but there will always be replacements at that level (imported where necessary). What’s frightening is where Western societies higher strata men have voluntarily rendered themselves trivial to women regardless of “male applied # rating”. Their DNA is being lost forever as “empowered women” ignore these feminized men and then experience biological clock panic – and it’s too late. (I always giggle at “empowered” anything. Power is taken. It’s never given. Anyone claiming “empowerment” is kowtowing to real power somewhere else. But I digress. )

To continue to original point, I’ve been reading a consensus on male-oriented blogs that women hit a wall and descend into valueless decrepitude after age 29 or so. Am I to understand that as a once solid “9/10” that now in my late 50’s I’m still living on $10 million in looks? I’m thinking not. I am however, quite happy to hand the torch, baton or whatever to the young and beautiful because there actually is more to life than worrying about breeding value to the next man. The problem I’m seeing is that our young, intelligent and beautiful women are inculcated with the treachery that nurture trumps nature while environmentally poisoned males roll over in submissive postures at any possibility at having their bellies scratched. This is not sustainable.

And while I realize this blog targets the 66%, how about a little bit on the 33% scenario where it’s she who gains money, power and social influence and it’s the husband fat, ignorant and eating bonbons in front of his TV? Any feedback about this MMSL book being useful for men raised as daughters? I know from reading the responses above I’m not the only one dealing with a man who has taken up the righteous banner of submission.

“And while I realize this blog targets the 66%, how about a little bit on the 33% scenario where it’s she who gains money, power and social influence and it’s the husband fat, ignorant and eating bonbons in front of his TV?”

This would be interesting. And what of the younger wife hitting her sexual peak while the older husband is starting to have some medical problems that impact their sex life (where other aspects of power and money are fairly equal)?

@emptied: All I meant was that you are/were a beautiful woman. You do not care if you lose your looks to age. And really if you were a 9, you will probably always be better looking than a woman 1/2 your age. But it is easy for you to say that losing your looks is no big deal and that looks are not particularly important in the big scheme of things. Your way of thinking is kind of insulting to the plain janes of the world. The plain janes will never have people randomly smile at them. open doors for them. Strike up conversations for no reason what so ever. Beautiful people get more job offers, make more money, are treated better, get lenient prison sentences. As a younger woman you could go to any social situation and people would welcome you without even knowing anything about you. Normal looking people sometimes get this. But not like the pretty people do.

As for men being turned into weenies: I am very happy about this situation. I am finding that my attitude of honesty and confidence allows me to standout in “the land of weenies”. When every other male is a supplicating pushover, a self possessed man looks good in comparison. People are shocked at the things I say without blushing and without apology. I don’t insult anyone with my honesty. I am just honest about how I feel.

“The truth is, most husbands idly fantasize about hooking up with younger women, ”
Heheh, not entirely correct. Husbands fantasize about hooking up with young women, no matter if the wife is 20 or 40. There is really nothing you can do to remove this. Being a 20 year old 10 won’t do it.

Joe_Commenter,
That is actually something I was wondering about. I haven’t found that women who are 9s have it easier than women who were 6s at their peak (speaking from personal experience). A 9 has more to lose. There is no guarantee that 20 years will take off the same amount of scale notches for everyone. In the end, we all end up a one or two, unless we die younger.
Although some women have such beauty that it eclipses all their wrinkles and obvious age (check out Carmen Dell Orefice). But it’s rare.
I have seen women who retained their 5-rating for decades, they are “meh” at 20, and equally “meh” at 45. At a young age, they often have these weird features that get straightened out to normal as they age, which makes up for the lowering of the rating due to age. Very facinating stuff.
So right now, I’m not at all sure what to think. Is being a 9 better? Or a 5? Being a 9 might mean you’ll lose more, being a 5 might mean you’ll never have much.
And about hitting the wall, is the wall defined the same for everyone? For a 9, is “the wall” defined as becoming a 6? While for a 6 it’s to become a 4? Any thoughts? It’s been eating me for a while.

Emma, pretty people ALWAYS have an easier road to success than homely people. Always. Now of course, some pretty people are able to screw up and make things harder for themselves than they should. My friend is one of the most handsome men you will ever see. certain opportunities come to him that just would never happen to a normal man. Same thing happens to pretty women.

The wall is just a loose concept. The idea is that A woman’s beauty is a major factor in how society “rates” that woman. Sometime after 25, a woman starts losing part of her beauty. Up until that time, she was getting more attractive. AFter about 25, less so. Women have other things to offer besides beauty. But it is a big component in attracting men.

Personally, I think the wall is not that important. Each and every person can make the most of what they have. Be fit. Don’t be fat. Be pleasant. Be happy and enjoy life. Surround yourself with happy loving people. Be confident but humble. Avoid crappy people, even if they are your relative. Do these things and the wall will be irrelevant, for men and women.

Yes, I know beauty gives people a bunch of extra stuff not given to other, less pretty people. But you can’t miss what you never had, can you? If you had it and lost it, and haven’t learned to do things without it, is it good? This is why I question the idea that being beautiful from the start is better.
It’s like being called smart all the time in school. When you reach college, suddenly studying is much harder and you lose your identity. Things are suddenly not easy. Recovering is hard.
But I guess if the pretty person is aware their looks won’t last, they can learn not to rely on them and use them to gain happiness for life, while they are still there.

[…] yourself to. There is no happy ending to this scenario. But we don’t despair, because of Wife Goggles, and because of #1. We are MILFs because we make ourselves such. (Or Cougars perhaps, for those who […]

[…] A man's physical attraction (or "sex rank") Well how about this blog post? Relative vs Absolute Sex Rank and the Forty-Year-Old Wife | Married Man Sex Life From the blog: Women all start off their sex lives pretty close to the peak of their […]

[…] her a couple of years later and for the 13 years we were together I always thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world to me. I thought I would always feel like this about her and for the most part I […]

[…] have provided her the status and benefit of my company and my commitment for a time, plus I thought she was still pretty hot. Suffice it to say that I am actually in the best position I can be in so I can build my new life […]

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