I don't really understand why some people are upset with Sandy so far. He's got limited (if any) payroll room and is trying to set the team for future success. I definitely would not have traded Niese and Wheeler for the Royals pkg and I think his patience with Dickey is going to pay off very nicely. Going in to 2014 it looks like we're going to have some really strong, young players - all controllable - and a ton of payroll flexibility.

I don't know the exact number but something like $70M in 2014? Playing in NYC the payroll should be double that so assuming the Wilpons get their finances in order I am very optimistic about next year's offseason and the number of prospects that should be ready to go.

We're upset with Sandy because it's his job to be the fall guy. See, what you call payroll flexibility i call less money the Wilpons will spend on the team.

It's semantics and no one plays that game better than Sandy. Outside of hoping a few kids rise up and become stars and maybe some Affordable Place Holders start playing way over their heads or wildly exceeding expectations a la RA Dickey and Scott Hairston, there's little reason to believe this team will ever be good again.

12-10-2012, 04:12 PM

jomota

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanofclendennon

We're upset with Sandy because it's his job to be the fall guy. See, what you call payroll flexibility i call less money the Wilpons will spend on the team.

It's semantics and no one plays that game better than Sandy. Outside of hoping a few kids rise up and become stars and maybe some Affordable Place Holders start playing way over their heads or wildly exceeding expectations a la RA Dickey and Scott Hairston, there's little reason to believe this team will ever be good again.

Sandy may be good at Semantics but I'll bet he can't beat Jeffie at Yahtzee.

And someone stole all of Freddie's games and now he doesn't have a Clue.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

12-10-2012, 04:28 PM

boller4prez

Quote:

Originally Posted by bklynny67

Gose is not THAT great a prospect dude. Nice way to over value jays prospects. No way the mets would trade Dickey for JPA and Gose only. We'd get hosed in that deal. JPA isn't very good at all. See what the rays got for Shields? And it's not like he has an incredible season every yr. Hell, he hasn't even had too many very good yrs. Look up the pitchers who in the last 3 yrs have over 600 innings and under 3.00 era. Just about every one is a perennial all star and most will be a HOF. Dickey is one of the pitchers on that list over the last 3 yrs. It's not like he came from nowhere to have a great yr. It's gonna cost d'Arnaud or a package of good prospects, including both Syndergaard and Gose.

The Jays definitely would say “no” to this. They would be trading a combined 10 years of control over Arencibia and Gose — both of whom play premium up-the-middle positions — for one year of Dickey.

Young players such as Gose and the Rangers’ Olt not only are inexpensive, but also offer upside and the possibility of signing club-friendly extensions in the future.

Arencibia, the veteran in the package, still is a year away from arbitration, and under club control through '16. Travis D’Arnaud, a top prospect, eventually will surpass him. But catcher is another position of scarcity — and rising salaries — increasing Arencibia’s value.

The Jays definitely would say “no” to this. They would be trading a combined 10 years of control over Arencibia and Gose — both of whom play premium up-the-middle positions — for one year of Dickey.

Young players such as Gose and the Rangers’ Olt not only are inexpensive, but also offer upside and the possibility of signing club-friendly extensions in the future.

Arencibia, the veteran in the package, still is a year away from arbitration, and under club control through '16. Travis D’Arnaud, a top prospect, eventually will surpass him. But catcher is another position of scarcity — and rising salaries — increasing Arencibia’s value.

Here, perhaps, is a better idea: Dickey for Arencibia, straight up.

That's a very fair deal, the Blue Jays get a top 10 pitcher over the past 3 years and the Mets get an everyday catcher, allbeit a below average one.

Let me ask you one simple question, If the roles were reversed would you do it?

12-10-2012, 04:41 PM

StoicSentry

Quote:

Originally Posted by boller4prez

Here, perhaps, is a better idea: Dickey for Arencibia, straight up.

Not sure if you're serious but that would be a terrible deal for the Mets. Honestly I would rather Dickey for 1 year, with the possibility of trading him at the deadline over JPA for his entire career. JPA hasn't proven anything.

12-10-2012, 04:49 PM

boller4prez

It wouldn't be that far off. I'd probably do something like JPA - Osuna/Nolin- stilson.

Or JPA + 2 other C prospects.

I've said all along this talk of an halladay or cy young package is nuts. His agent and the Mets know what his value is and you can see from the dollar figures being exchanged it's not that of a grienke/Halladay/Cain/etc it's more of an Dan Haren, Anibal Sanchez, Edwin jackson type deal.

If you guys can get more all the more power to you. I'm not going into this discussion hoping the Jays hose you guys thats honestly what I feel dickey is worth.

12-10-2012, 04:50 PM

Sick Of It All

Six or seven teams looking to meet with Mets on Dickey

The fact that Arencibia is cheap and an be controlled for a few more years is the only thing he really gives the Mets, because aside from that he is not better than Thole as far as over all production from a catcher goes. So yeah it makes sense to trade Dickey for a guy who at best gives you a minimal upgrade over the guy they currently have who happens to stink.

12-10-2012, 04:52 PM

Metsin08

Who cares how long jpa is under team control??? He's a below average catcher, period. Baxter is controllable, anyone want to trade us a cy young winner for him??

12-10-2012, 04:55 PM

boller4prez

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoicSentry

Not sure if you're serious but that would be a terrible deal for the Mets. Honestly I would rather Dickey for 1 year, with the possibility of trading him at the deadline over JPA for his entire career. JPA hasn't proven anything.

That wasn't my musing - it was Ken Rosenthal's.

12-10-2012, 04:57 PM

metswon69

Quote:

Originally Posted by boller4prez

That wasn't my musing - it was Ken Rosenthal's.

Rosenthal can speculate all he wants, there is no way the Mets do a deal for Dickey and JPA straight up.

He would probably hesitate at D'Arnaud straight up but at least that's more feasible.

JPA will be 27 in January, even with him being controllable, he is no spring chicken in his development.

Here, perhaps, is a better idea: Dickey for Arencibia, straight up. The Jays obviously are trying to win; otherwise, they would not have made their blockbuster with the Marlins. And while Arencibia has averaged 21.5 homers the past two seasons, his career on-base percentage, in nearly 900 plate appearances, is .275.

Come to think of it, the Mets almost certainly would want more than such a player for a Cy Young winner, which brings us back to something resembling the Arencibia-Gose package.

Rosenthal is badly undervaluing Dickey, but lets not make him look even more foolish.

It seems obvious to me the Mets would rather see another year of Dickey pitching, and maybe lose him for a draft pick, then get only a below average catcher in return.

You can try to make a case for the Arencibia + Gose package, if it were the best offer on the table, but I would personally turn that down as well, and would probably blame JP Ricciardi for it if that deal went through. The Mets front office has already shown signs of a stunning lack of objectivity at times when it comes to players formerly associated with either the Padres or Blue Jays.

Rosenthal is badly undervaluing Dickey, but lets not make him look even more foolish. .

IMO, Rosenthal usually looks like an idiot when he states his opinions on the FOX game of the week...and I'm not talking about his silly bowtie, he just seems as clueless as Andy Martino can seem at times...

12-10-2012, 05:01 PM

metsbulls1025

If we trade Dickey for Arencibia straight up Sandy should be fired on the spot.

12-10-2012, 05:04 PM

metswon69

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsbulls1025

If we trade Dickey for Arencibia straight up Sandy should be fired on the spot.

This...

If those are the type of deals being thrown around for Dickey then it's better to re-sign him or get the compensation pick at the end of next season if he walks.

The Mets still have the ability to deal RA in July too, there might be a better individual prospect out there then.