Yeah, that franchise in Vancover did splendid, so there's no need for criticism.

Ya and when he took over NBA Playoffs were tape delayed and the league was heading in the wrong direction. Now the preseason is live and did you see the deal the Lakers just did with Time Warner?

but yes he was terrible

10-25-2012, 04:18 PM

FlavaDave

Re: Stern to retire

So, does Chris Paul get to suit up for the Lakers on Feb. 2nd?

10-25-2012, 04:18 PM

Sollozzo

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Since86

Yeah, that franchise in Vancover did splendid, so there's no need for criticism.

Expanding to Canada was an bad idea. It created two undesirable franchises. The Grizzlies lasted a whopping six seasons before jetting out of there. The Raptors have survived, but they are an undesirable destination. They have made the playoffs just 5 times in 17 years, and have won just one playoff series in that time span. For the most part, they have been a perpetually bad team.

Also, creating the Bobcats a mere two years after the Hornets left was completely unnecessary.

10-25-2012, 04:20 PM

Sollozzo

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacer4ever

Ya and when he took over NBA Playoffs were tape delayed and the league was heading in the wrong direction. Now the preseason is live and did you see the deal the Lakers just did with Time Warner?

but yes he was terrible

So we'd still be watching on delay if it weren't for Stern? Not a single other soul would have had that light bulb go off?

No major sport in this day in age would ever be on tape delay. Showing stuff live is just part of a natural progression.

10-25-2012, 04:34 PM

Heisenberg

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sollozzo

Expanding to Canada was an bad idea. It created two undesirable franchises. The Grizzlies lasted a whopping six seasons before jetting out of there. The Raptors have survived, but they are an undesirable destination. They have made the playoffs just 5 times in 17 years, and have won just one playoff series in that time span. For the most part, they have been a perpetually bad team.

Also, creating the Bobcats a mere two years after the Hornets left was completely unnecessary.

The Raptors haven't made the playoffs because they've been terribly run. In 17 years they've had Bosh, Carter, and McGrady. That's at least 2 bona fide superstars, 3 by my definition.

10-25-2012, 04:38 PM

pacer4ever

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sollozzo

So we'd still be watching on delay if it weren't for Stern? Not a single other soul would have had that light bulb go off?

No major sport in this day in age would ever be on tape delay. Showing stuff live is just part of a natural progression.

Thats a fair point I believe baseball games were live then and who's to say anyone could of got the TV deals that the NBA has now. Stern has done a great job of maketing the product and like it or not marketing stars which is what sells and what makes the league money.

I mean when he took over attendance was awful. Atlanta (7,139), Chicago (6,365), Cleveland (5,075) and Washington (7,920). Now the worst team in the league is double most of those. He took over a league that was in bad shape and now is thriving. Who knows if others could of done it but im sure Herb Simon is glad he bought the team for 10m and now the team is worth much much more.

The Raptors actually do very well that city really supports the team and I consider TOR a good basketball town. The main issue is that players dont like paying the taxs there and all the traveling issues so if they arent winning players wont want to be there. If they built a better team around Bosh who is to say he wouldnt of stayed? I mean an aging JO is all they could do?

I do agree you could tweak the system to make them more desirable $$ wise however with the visa issues you really cant do much about.

I just cant see a reason the owners could even gripe about the guy who made them so much $$

10-25-2012, 04:42 PM

Cactus Jax

Re: Stern to retire

The greatest thing he did was take games off tape delay, and get things on prime-time, but main reasons for that were Celtics/Lakers finals, and Michael Jordan. He got blessed with the most popular player in NBA history months after he took over. He did some good things, he did some very bad things (Bobcats, New Orleans Hornets, Vancouver, Toronto come to mind) but overall he was good and will probably be missed.

His first 15 years or so (before the first lockout and after MJ retired with Bulls) were excellent, after that its been not that great.

10-25-2012, 04:46 PM

Trophy

Re: Stern to retire

The Raptors and the Grizzlies (when they played in Vancouver) should not go hand in hand. The Raptors have a solid fanbase, while the Grizzlies didn't.

10-25-2012, 04:52 PM

Trophy

Re: Stern to retire

I will say Stern helped turn basketball into what it is today. One of the most followed and played sports in the whole world. It's easily become second to football in North America.

However, it is definitely time for a change at commissioner and Silver seems like a very good choice.

10-25-2012, 05:09 PM

Heisenberg

Re: Stern to retire

I do think the time has come so to speak, but I'll admit it, I'll miss Stern being a cocky SOB. I'm sure some (most) hated it, but it always made me chuckle. C'mon, when he got booed at the draft he gave em the Hulk Hogan I can't hear you hand motion.

10-25-2012, 05:16 PM

LG33

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

C'mon, when he got booed at the draft he gave em the Hulk Hogan I can't hear you hand motion.

The fans at MSG booing Stern and cheering Silver is the best part of the NBA year (if your team doesn't win a championship).

10-25-2012, 05:19 PM

Heisenberg

Re: Stern to retire

Find me another commish that can go to Rucker and rock a Terror Squad chain

Ya and when he took over NBA Playoffs were tape delayed and the league was heading in the wrong direction. Now the preseason is live and did you see the deal the Lakers just did with Time Warner?

but yes he was terrible

I don't think Stern was nearly as good as some of you believe, but I wasn't arguing against any of that. You said this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacer4ever

Really I cant think of anything he has done that warrants bashing at all.

His over expansion of the league is a definite point of criticism, and one that is pretty big considering the financial struggles of the NBA right now. Leaders get credit for the good and the bad. Two lockouts in 15 years is a pretty big deal.

EDIT: Guess I should have just read the rest of the thread to see Sollozzo's post.

10-25-2012, 05:27 PM

Since86

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacer4ever

I mean when he took over attendance was awful. Atlanta (7,139), Chicago (6,365), Cleveland (5,075) and Washington (7,920). Now the worst team in the league is double most of those. He took over a league that was in bad shape and now is thriving. Who knows if others could of done it but im sure Herb Simon is glad he bought the team for 10m and now the team is worth much much more.

The NBA is thriving? The NFL is thriving. Their lockout was about how to split the massive money pie fairly between parties. The NBA's lockout is because teams are bleeding money like crazy. I mean, we talk about the chances of the Pacers moving mutliple times a year, every year.

10-25-2012, 05:33 PM

Trophy

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Since86

The NBA is thriving? The NFL is thriving. Their lockout was about how to split the massive money pie fairly between parties. The NBA's lockout is because teams are bleeding money like crazy. I mean, we talk about the chances of the Pacers moving mutliple times a year, every year.

What are you talking about?

You're also pretty much saying the NBA is at the lowest level in North American leagues. The NBA and basketball has become easily the second watched and played sport in North America behind football and it's expanded greatly internationally.

In addition, if any league over expanded itself it's the NHL and possibly the MLB. For the most part, NBA teams have developed fan bases. Hockey is appreciated mainly by Canadians, so placing teams in random cities/areas in the U.S. is not very smart. In the MLB, a hand full of teams wind up with stadiums half filled because they haven't been anywhere in over a decade.

10-25-2012, 05:51 PM

Since86

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trophy

What are you talking about?

You're also pretty much saying the NBA is at the lowest level in North American leagues. The NBA and basketball has become easily the second watched and played sport in North America behind football and it's expanded greatly internationally.

In addition, if any league over expanded itself it's the NHL and possibly the MLB. For the most part, NBA teams have developed fan bases. Hockey is appreciated mainly by Canadians, so placing teams in random cities/areas in the U.S. is not very smart. In the MLB, a hand full of teams wind up with stadiums half filled because they haven't been anywhere in over a decade.

The idea that the Pacers moving to Las Vegas or anywhere else is discussed quite often around here.

I'm not saying it's the lowest league in NA. I'm simply stating facts. There was a lockout in 99 and last year. Both of those were due to CBA deals and the revenue split. Both times the NBA said about half of the teams were losing money. The NBA was struggling financially both times, and had lost games as a result. Some lockouts are strategic, like the NFL lockout. Some lockouts are just terrible situations. Both NBA lockouts were due to bad financial situations.

You can't talk about all the good things Stern did for the game, while ignoring that the NBA is struggling mightly financially. If your product can't make money then how good were the decisions you made? Surely deciding to add two more teams to a league that was already struggling to support the teams they had was a bad idea.

10-25-2012, 06:11 PM

xBulletproof

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Cold

Sometimes people need to quit pissing in my cornflakes. :)

My bad. :(

10-25-2012, 06:50 PM

Steagles

Re: Stern to retire

27 years late.

10-25-2012, 07:01 PM

Ransom

Re: Stern to retire

I still support the dress code.

10-25-2012, 07:37 PM

Mad-Mad-Mario

Re: Stern to retire

Anybody who watched Basketball in the 90s knows that this NBA is not thriving compared to what it could be. Hell their profitability is so low there was an argument over whether or not they even made money.

The problem was Stern had built a league where stars dominated. And every team had a star. But then he went and expanded the NBA to make it harder for teams to find stars. And while its not his fault, he oversaw the NBA where Stars decided to collude and instead of 3 teams having a star, they just go to one team. Leaving two fanbases disillusioned without any hope of winning till they find a new star

10-25-2012, 08:12 PM

pacer4ever

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario

Anybody who watched Basketball in the 90s knows that this NBA is not thriving compared to what it could be. Hell their profitability is so low there was an argument over whether or not they even made money.

The problem was Stern had built a league where stars dominated. And every team had a star. But then he went and expanded the NBA to make it harder for teams to find stars. And while its not his fault, he oversaw the NBA where Stars decided to collude and instead of 3 teams having a star, they just go to one team. Leaving two fanbases disillusioned without any hope of winning till they find a new star

we are in one of the worst economic times ever and the league is still growing thats a hell of an accomplishment.

Stars dominating isnt a problem that is what sells to the casual fan and that's what gets ratings. The way the NBA is run is a very smart way where they make a lot of money. But it's not Stern's fault players want to team up you cant do anything about it however im sure he doesnt mind. Like it or not the league took off because of Bird and his star teammates vs Magic and his star teammates and the league has always done best when that happens. If OKC and Durant develops a real rivalry vs LBJ in the next couple years the league will be even stronger. That is the nature of the league and thats smart to market the league in that manner so you grow the league which benefits everyone.

10-25-2012, 08:25 PM

Mad-Mad-Mario

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacer4ever

we are in one of the worst economic times ever and the league is still growing thats a hell of an accomplishment.

Stars dominating isnt a problem that is what sells to the casual fan and that's what gets ratings. The way the NBA is run is a very smart way where they make a lot of money. But it's not Stern's fault players want to team up you cant do anything about it however im sure he doesnt mind. Like it or not the league took off because of Bird and his star teammates vs Magic and his star teammates and the league has always done best when that happens. If OKC and Durant develops a real rivalry vs LBJ in the next couple years the league will be even stronger. That is the nature of the league and thats smart to market the league in that manner so you grow the league which benefits everyone.

Yep the league is so strong financially that they had to have a lockout less than a year ago :rolleyes:

10-25-2012, 08:29 PM

Heisenberg

Re: Stern to retire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario

Yep the league is so strong financially that they had to have a lockout less than a year ago :rolleyes: