The best warranties are the ones that are short and honest, like Patagonia's –

"If you are not satisfied with one of our products at the time you receive it, or if one of our products does not perform to your satisfaction, you may return it to us for a repair, replacement or refund. Damage due to wear and tear will be repaired at a reasonable charge."

Or REI's
"If you are not satisfied with your REI purchase, you can return it for a replacement or refund. Items must be returned within a year of purchase, …

"REI’s guarantee doesn’t cover ordinary wear and tear or damage caused by improper use or accidents."

The worst companies include "Lifetime Guarantee" only as a hook, and rely on a book of excuses to avoid replacing failed goods, manufacturer or otherwise.

Those looking for a lifetime guarantee just to "work the system" are increasing the costs to the folks who recognize that "wear and tear" is reality, and expected.

It's not at all surprising that company are changing policy to thwart the scammers. It reduces their cost and the cost to the consumer, and keeps them in a very competitive market.

Relating to the other thread, I've got a Marmot Essence that's 3-4 years old, but is reserved only for backpacking and wear it maybe 12 times a year. Would you consider delamination of their membrane normal wear and tear?

Other than that the jacket doesn't have a scratch on it. I should think it would last longer than that.

Relating to the other thread, I've got a Marmot Essence that's 3-4 years old, but is reserved only for backpacking and wear it maybe 12 times a year. Would you consider delamination of their membrane normal wear and tear?

Other than that the jacket doesn't have a scratch on it. I should think it would last longer than that.

according to some BPLers … yr a scammer =P

delamination in a rain jacket is very common … probably the most common failure of outdoor gear … which is why i always tell people to buy from a company with a no questions asked unlimited warranty

if you use it for 12 days a year, that shouldnt be normal wear and tear no matter what BPLers tell you … good luck with marmot

Travis –
"… I've got a Marmot Essence that's 3-4 years old, but is reserved only for backpacking and wear it maybe 12 times a year. Would you consider delamination of their membrane normal wear and tear?"

Three days into an overseas adventure I discovered my eVent jacket was no longer waterproof. When held up to the sun I could see sparkles of light throughout the body and arms. It was about 4 years old.

I do 3 or 4 hikes about 10 days long each year. Most of the time that jacket was stuffed in my pack. My cadence is about 2 steps per second. That results in 120 "bounces/compressions/jostles a minute, 7,200 per hour, 72,000 per day, 720,000 per trip, 2,880,000 per year, not counting daily/weekly use for training and day hikes. 10 million "rubs" over 4 years.

It was a "2.5 layer" jacket and I had simply abraded the "1/2 layer" of tricot (think noseeum mosquito netting) and then the membrane. My new jacket cost $115 (half of the first one), weighs less (7 ounces), and is a better performer, but I'll start testing it at year 3.

I've had two experiences with MSR's customer service and found them to be excellent.

A friend gave me a Hubba tent – which had a fly that had delaminated – sent them an email explaining the situation and admitting it was a gift (i.e. not the original owner) and they sent me an RA to return the fly and sent me a new one without hesitation. Pretty remarkable really.

The problem with "normal wear and tear" is that it's a very broad, loose definition.

Just like others said, if the jacket is packed and gets bumped abajillion times, but only worn a few times and fails, is that "normal?" Or is wear from constantly wearing it normal?

Of course, none of us should expect an ultralight jacket to last forever, but people should also not be shamed by the community for standing up for what they think is a premature product failure like that zorg guy did on the marmot thread.

I was coming more from the point that the companies would stand behind what they sell so that if something was used minimally and it failed that they would replace. I don't expect them to take back items that were heavily worn and failed by a more normal standard but those that might have some wear and a feature on it failed long before it should have. If I wear a rain jacket 25 times a year for a full day, taking it on and off, that zipper should last beyond 5 years if I paid above $75 for it.

the problem is that unless a company states it explicitly, you never know

many the CSR is having a bad day, or is jaded … maybe they have secret quotas and budgets to scrimp on warranty service … many companies view warranty work as a cost to be reduced, rather than an opportunity for more sales and brand loyalty

ONLY when a company puts it out there "for any reason, any time" … do you have any certainty of coverage

which is why i always recommend people buy OR rain jackets here … delamination is probably the most common non repairable gear failure most people will experience …

with companies like OR, EB and MEC …. you dont have to argue, you dont have to worry … theyll take care of you

and i encourage people to take care of such companies with your business if their products meet your needs

All of my hats and gloves are already OR. My next rain jacket/pant will be an OR. For fleece I use Patagonia because I believe they make the best stuff out there, there are usually sales everywhere and the still have a good warranty to go with it. For down I will probably use EB since they have the tall sizes. I don't mind paying and extra $20 and carrying an extra 4oz around with me knowing that the gear is solid, the company stands behind it and that I don't have to baby it every step of the way.

Patagonia, Cascade Designs, BD, MEC, EXPED [amazing actually], Arc'teryx [but they're s-l-o-w and I live right next to their HQ], North Face [at least in the 1990s – don't own any of their gear now], ZT Knives.

Dismal:

Mountain Hardwear – I've had a few claims [tent related] and they never, ever responded to my emails.

Great but no direct, personal experience:

Surefire lights – if people here use their products, they're said to be amazing to deal with.