Last year I spent around 30% of class time wrestling, humiliating, torturing and otherwise trying to force the worst behaved of my kids into submission- and came to the conclusion that its indispensable to effective teaching. And, 20 the kids generally respond well to it because they don't get any such attention at home. Its the quickest and least time- wasting way to discipline. Now I'm faced with a job where touching the kids at all is banned, there are supervisory cameras in the classrooms- and the only threat available is to send little soo-min to the boss. Last year they all came back smiling and giggling when I did that. Heeeelp

Make 'em stand in the center of the room holding their chair straight above their heads. Demonstrate how if you have to. They will giggle and do the clown thing for about one minute. Then it will start to hurt and their smiles will start to fade. I have had the toughest middle school boys submit after making them do this. How long you make them do it depends on how young they are. Obviously a seven year old can't hold up his chair for too long.

I have also found that being strict with the bad kids tends to get you some sort of healthy respect/fear. But the only problem with this is they will complain to their moms, and the moms will complain to your boss, and if your boss is a typical hagwon owner, he'll fold faster than Superman on laundry day and make you stop.

The Korean teachers, male/female, seem to use some kind of physical punishment a lot. It might be a ruler on the knuckles or a sharp knock on the head. This is nothing to what they get in regular school so it doesn't bother them too much.

However, I've found if a foreign teacher tries this the complaints come flooding in. Not sure why but one can never be sure what a kid who's pride has been hurt will go home and tell mom.

I still use the finger-flick-on-the-forehead with boys. Raising your voice almost always works with girls.

Of course the best way to discipline is what teacher-trainors might call 'positive re-inforcement'. i.e. small homework for good students, big for the bad.

Lately I've been too lazy to do my own discipline all the time. I just call the headteacher/supervisor/director. It's easier and creates less simmering resentment.

That advice is all well and fine, but what do you do when the kids refuse to do the "jumping jacks" or raise their arms? I can't even get some of these kids to take out their books. I've tried making them stand in the corner, but it usually turns out being more of a hassle than it's worth. I end up having to wrestle with the little darling, and this is not so much fun when they start using their Tae Kwon Do moves on me. Yelling very loudly, sometimes works for a few minutes, but it's only a temporary measure. And as far as punishing the whole class, that's a great idea. But it's hard to make them understand the reason they are being punished, and they usually resent me more than anything else.

One teacher told me that he made the whole class hold their arms up until they learned to be quiet in class. This sounds great if you can do it, but when I tried it they just laughed at me and went on doing what they were doing. Discipline is a hard game. I prefer to ignore them as long as possible, because it's ultimately less stressful on me if I don't have to get angry. The best thing I've found is to find something that catches their interest and then there are no discipline problems. But that is far easier said than done, and in some classes, I have never been able to find what interests them.

Recently, I've started using a game with the teacher cards for "Let's Go" .
I divide the class into teams, then hold up the card and they have to say what it is. I have to be careful how I ask the questions because of the way the cards are titled. They tend to use the simple present tense rather than the progressive, so I have to ask questions that would require the simple present tense. Otherwise I would just be further confusing the students.

Ex: What does she like to do on Saturday? --- Go rollerskating.

If I ask, "what is she doing?" ---- the answer is wrong on the card and it becomes very confusing for the students.

Anyway, when I play this game, I don't seem to have discipline problems. They all really enjoy doing it, but I can see that it won't take long for them to get bored with it. Then I'll have to find something else.
I hope this is somehow moderately helpful
Cheers

Yeah, you guys are right about the complaints flooding in for trying to discipline. I've got some nasty boys like that, and I've had to "kick some out" of class -- literally. How can you teach 20 other kids when three boys are flicking the others on the back of the head, jumping on top of the heater when you turn your back, etc.? After making them stand outside the classroom with their arms in the air at least twice, I send them down to "the ajumma" (which means I have to leave the class unattended for a few minutes -- another problem). Sometimes they won't go, and I have to either make a scene by physically trying to lift them out of their chair (which I don't do anymore because it makes me look like an idiot, in my opinion) or just let them stay. The result is that they complain to the parents that I'm a "bad teacher", and if I don't discipline them in some way, the other kids quit the class because they can't learn anything.

In time, the few things that seem to work (not always) are bribery, trying to get the students doing something educational to give them the "attention" they seek (one bad girl loves to use my dictionary and write the korean on the board next to the vocabulary words of the day). Also, I try to become their "buddy" outside of class. I've got one 12 year-old girl who was a real problem, but she's toned down a lot since I bought her a coca-cola (was on break and went to KFC) when she wasn't feeling well. She ended up sitting in my office talking about how she, "hates being Korean" and began to cry when she explained how she gets 5 hours of sleep a night and attends three Hagwons. After that talk, she's been pretty good in class. These kids sure have terrible lives, in my opinion.

One thing that some do is to give the kids stickers if they are good. Once they reach 20 stickers, for example, there is some sort of prize. I haven't done this yet, and since I leave soon, it's late to start, but I'd probably start doing that. I hear the best thing is to tell everyone that once the class gets a certain total number of stickers, they get something like a "cookie party" or "pizza party" day. That makes the kids police themselves.

That advice is all well and fine, but what do you do when the kids refuse to do the "jumping jacks" or raise their arms? I can't even get some of these kids to take out their books. I've tried making them stand in the corner, but it usually turns out being more of a hassle than it's worth. I end up having to wrestle with the little darling, and this is not so much fun when they start using their Tae Kwon Do moves on me. Yelling very loudly, sometimes works for a few minutes, but it's only a temporary measure.

I understand, but then maybe it is too late for you and that class. If you have always been pretty easygoing with them, it's likely that yeah, they are going to laugh or refuse if suddenly you try to get them to endure a physical form of punishment. I never had this problem because I was always kind of a hard-ass from day one. My kids called me the "soldier teacher" (although I've never been affiliated with the army, despite my user name) and I never had any discipline problems. In a year and a half I did have one class of middle schoolers where NOTHING worked. In that case, I managed to switch with another teacher, because I figured it was a mutual personality problem, and it worked out fine.

My kids (especially the older boys) would usually refuse once or twice to get out of his chair, but if I got out of mine and actually approached them, they would move pretty damn fast. And if some of you think that I was only ruling by fear and you want your kids to love you too, I never had a problem with my kids still being affectionate, cooperative, and giving me stuff. In fact the other foreigners used to ask me why I was always getting presents, and I had to say I didn't know...I wasn't showing favoritism to those kids, either.

I enjoyed this thread as I too have dealt with those little bastards in the past!!
- stand in the corner with your book bag above your head.....NO!.....oh.
- leave the room.....NO!....oh.
- Stop poking my butt, that's not cool.....NO!...oh.
- Does your mother love you? .....NO!....oh.

But as I remember the buddy police thing worked very well, as a release I can say that I even enjoyed watching them cry.
(Harpeau; do I need counciling?)

You really can't punish them per say; you will get that pain in your throat like you are on the verge of a breakdown and all the manager will do is laugh when you suggest the child should be expelled or chained up.

40 minutes of teaching what you can to those who will listen.

Its nice to know that others had/ have the same problems I did, Really though aside from the buddy system which does work fairly well, you can't do too much at a hogwan where you can't call the shots.

Back in Oz I went to a private school (our version of a hogwon). Back there if the teachers DIDN'T give you hell, the parents complained. Parents wanted their children disciplined.
Here in Korea the problem is parents don't know how to discipline children, so they come to school behaving like a pack of savages.
So when you try to expel Sook Young from a class because the bastard is terrorising other students, you'll find you are at fault because its the ones that are the "bravest" who complain to mommy the quickest.
The Korean teachers, can amputate their fingers and there are no compliants, but if a foreigner so much as has one leave a class, the complaints start.
My Hogwon boss complains all the time because I lose students. When they run around like savages I'm too soft if I lose a student, because I kicked her out of the class after 2000 warnings, I'm too tough. I don't care if I lose a student, I'm not kissing the butt of an 11 year old. Hey fire me!!!!!
My Solution DON"T GIVE A TOSS, the students don't, the parents are ignorant, and the Hogwan's especially don't care. We are not here to teach (they don't absorb anything anyway), just go through the motions, and collect your pay check, whilst preserving some of your dignity.
Personally what I do when I have the class from hell is just hand out some puzzles, and sit in a corner and read. Those that want to learn do the puzzles, those that do not, play around.
If your going to put in some effort, save it for the decent class.
I not here to bust my balls over a bunch of psychopathic kids and their weenie parents. The mere fact that most of them are overweight, says a lot about how the parents raise the little darlings

I make boys and girls do squats non-stop after they muck-up . When I start a class I tell my students that they can either study for a thinking job or exercise for a labouring job. If they refuse to do squats then I take them straight down to the vice principal at my school. I have to do this once or twice a year. EPIK has some advantages over most hogwans.

I find a very simple way to get their attention is to either get a copy, or pretend you have a copy of the list of everyone's telephone number. If they start to grind you, take your cell phone and say you are going to call thier mother right there and then. This might not work with older kids, but it works wonders with younger kids. Just the threat of their mother can reduce to them to sobs and howls in SECONDS. Try it.