Monuments to Confederate generals and to those who fought for the South during the American Civil War have been targeted by protesters in a number of US cities, following the violence at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

A protester in Richmond, Virginia climbed on a statue of Confederate General J.E.B Stuart and placed a black flag on the monument, cheered on by other demonstrators.

"Tear the racist statues down," the crowd yelled as the masked man ascended the memorial.

Calling for the removal of monuments, the demonstrators marched to the historic Monument Avenue in Richmond, which served as the Confederacy's capital during the American Civil war of 1861-1865. Many see the monuments as a reminder of the South's support for slavery during the war.

Comment: And many others don't. But as cultural history, these monuments provide the perfect catalyst for polarization and radicalization on both sides (or should we say, "many sides").

The Richmond protesters first wanted to head for the memorial of General Robert E. Lee but settled for the Stuart statue when authorities said only 20 people could gather at the Lee monument, according to Richmond Police Chief Alfred Durham.

"Film the Klan, don't film us," demonstrators shouted at a CBS crew, according to the network.

A photojournalist for WTVR, a CBS affiliate, was attacked by one of the protesters while filming the march on his cell phone, the channel said.

The journalist was taken to the hospital and received four stitches to his skull.

"This is not a peaceful protest," he wrote.

In Tampa, Florida paint had been tossed on and around Confederate memorial park columns with derogatory comments scrawled in the paint, Hillsborough County sheriff's officials said.

Other confederate memorials in the area had been targeted as well, AP reported.

On Sunday, in Gainesville Florida, city authorities began to remove a Confederate statue that was created as a memorial to men from the area who lost their lives in the Civil War.

The statue is being returned to the local chapter of the United Daughters of the Confederacy which erected it in 1904, AP reported.

A confederate monument in Atlanta, Georgia was damaged and splattered with red paint by a group of activists who demanded its removal.

On Saturday, the mayor of Lexington, Kentucky said that Confederate-era symbols - statues of Generals Breckinridge and Hunt Morgan - will be taken down from the city's historic courthouse precinct.

"I am taking action to relocate the Confederate statues. We have thoroughly examined this issue, and heard from many of our citizens," Gray tweeted. He added that the situation in Charlottesville pushed him to announce the decision a week earlier than initially intended.

Comment: Baltimore City Councilman Brandon Scott has also formally called for Confederate-era monuments to be torn down:

In a resolution being introduced Monday, Scott calls for "the immediate destruction of all Confederate Monuments in Baltimore." In the resolution, he cites the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville over the weekend that left three dead.

On Sunday, her spokesman said the mayor has spoken with mayors around the country who are deciding how to handle monuments in their cities.

"She wants to do what serves the best interests of the citizens of Baltimore," the spokesman, Anthony McCarthy, said in a statement. "A decision will be made at an appropriate time."

Baltimore officials have studied whether to tear down the city's Confederate monuments since 2015.

Pugh said in May she was considering removing them after New Orleans did so.

"The city does want to remove these," Pugh told The Baltimore Sun. "We will take a closer look at how we go about following in the footsteps of New Orleans."

Before former Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake left office last year, she added signs in front of four Confederate monuments in Baltimore. The signs said, in part, that the monuments were "part of a propaganda campaign of national pro-Confederate organizations to perpetuate the beliefs of white supremacy, falsify history and support segregation and racial intimidation."

Pugh suggested in May that the cost of removal could be expensive.

"It costs about $200,000 a statute to tear them down. ... Maybe we can auction them?" she said.

A planned relocation of a monument to Confederate General Robert E. Lee from a park led to Saturday's protests in Charlottesville where violence broke out as white supremacists clashed with those who came to protest against them. A man then drove his car into a group of counter-protesters, killing a woman and injuring 19 people.

The violence in Charlottesville triggered the latest push to remove Confederate symbols from city squares across the US.

The previous push came following the June 2015 shooting of nine African American churchgoers at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina.

South Carolina authorities responded by removing the Confederate flag monument from the state capitol grounds in July that year. The University of Texas in Austin took down its monument to Davis in August.

In April this year, New Orleans began the planned removal of several Confederate monuments in the city, including the statues honoring Lee, Davis, and General P.G.T. Beauregard, who was born in the city.

However, in neighboring Alabama, state legislators passed a bill in May that would prevent local authorities from relocating, altering or renaming "architecturally significant" buildings, memorials, memorial streets or monuments.

Comment: South Carolina lawmakers have also said that SC's Confederate monuments will stay:

A spokeswoman for House Speaker Jay Lucas, R-Hartsville, said Monday that Lucas maintains there will be no further changes to Confederate monuments as long as he is speaker, reiterating Lucas' 2015 statement that said, "Debate over this issue will not be expanded or entertained."

Gov. Henry McMaster echoed the desire for the remaining monuments to stay put.

"We have been over these issues over the years," McMaster said, speaking Monday at a job fair for laid-off workers from the now-cancelled V.C. Summer nuclear project. "I think our people are different."

Despite Lucas' refusal to consider changing any additional Confederate monuments, local officials across the state have urged the Legislature to allow them to remove certain commemorations.

For example, representatives at The Citadel have voiced their desire to remove the Confederate Naval Jack from Summerall Chapel, but the school cannot lawfully remove it because of the Heritage Act. That law, passed in 2000, requires a two-thirds vote in the General Assembly to determine the fate of historic markers and monuments on public property.

The war that pitted 11 Southern states against the rest of the Union began in April 1861 and ended in May 1865. It claimed the lives of around 620,000 men - 258,000 of them from the South - which remains by far the greatest death toll of any war in US history.

Comment: Protestors have already defaced two such monuments in Durham, NC, and Atlanta, GA, in the past 3 days. RT reports on the events in Atlanta:

Several dozen activists marched into Atlanta's Piedmont Park on Sunday evening and gathered around the Peace Monument, defacing it with red spray paint. Video from the scene shows one masked activist climbing on top of the statue and wrapping a chain around it. At one point, a piece of the monument fell on one of the protesters.

The protest was organized by All Out Atlanta, which the Atlanta Journal-Constitution described as a collection of "progressive and other left-leaning groups," including"antifa"and Black Lives Matter.

"Liberal society has blood on its hands," the group said in a press release cited by the newspaper. All Out Atlanta also accused the American Civil Liberties Union of being "spineless" for defending "fascists' right to assemble" in Charlottesville.

... a group of black-clad, masked "antifa" activists shouted abuse at a lone police officer trying to stop them from tearing down the Peace Monument. The Journal-Constitution reported that Black Lives Matter protesters shielded the officer, who was African-American, from "antifa" activists.

One person "who spoke briefly of reconciliation was met with boos and catcalls," the paper reported.

On Monday, the group that erected the monument in 1911 said it would raise money for repairs. John Green, a former commander of the Old Guard of the Gate City Guard, said that removing the monument from the city park was "not an option."...
According to the official Georgia tourism site, at the monument's dedication in 1911, "over 50,000 veterans from both the North and the South, many of whom once fought each other, marched in a parade down Peachtree Street" to Piedmont Park.

Symbol of peace and reconciliation: still racist, apparently. As for Durham:

A protester climbed a ladder on the side of a Confederate monument outside a Durham, North Carolina, courthouse Monday evening as chants of "We, we are the revolution!" and "No Trump, no KKK, no fascist USA!" rang out below.

Raw video showed a yellow line tossed up to her, which she secured around the statue's neck - and then the protesters below pulled the line and toppled the statue into a crumpled heap. And the crowd, not surprisingly, went wild.

And for good measure, protesters gave the statue extra doses of punishment.

They took turns giving it the middle finger and spitting on it.

And they also stomped and kicked it "Office Space"-style:

Durham police told WNCN-TV that they monitored the protests to make sure they were "safe" but didn't interfere with the statue toppling since it occurred on county property.

Durham County Sheriff's deputies videotaped the statue toppling, the station added, but didn't intervene, either.

After the statue came down, protesters began marching and blocking traffic, WNCN said.

"Today, we got a small taste of justice," protester Jose Ramos told the station after the statue was pulled down.

"When I see a Confederate statue in downtown Durham, or really anywhere, it fills me with a lot of rage and frustration," protest organizer Loan Tran said to WNCN.

Protest leaders told the station Monday's demonstration was in reaction to the deadly clash of protesters in Charlottesville, Virginia, over the weekend and was meant to "smash white supremacy."

"People can be mobilized and people are angry and when enough people are angry, we don't have to look to politicians to sit around in air conditions [sic] and do nothing when we can do things ourselves," Takiyah Thompson, a protester, added to WNCN.

Isn't destruction of public property a crime? More to the point, do these "protestors" not see the logical consequence to their actions?

Update: While no one was arrested for tearing down the statue in Durham on Monday, today County Sheriff Andrews announced that investigators are working on identifying the vandals and bringing criminal charges against them.

"We decided that restraint and public safety would be our priority," Andrews said in a statement posted on his agency's website. "As the Sheriff, I am not blind to the offensive conduct of some demonstrators nor will I ignore their criminal conduct."

He continued: "My deputies showed great restraint and respect for the constitutional rights of the group expressing their anger and disgust for recent events in our country. Racism and incivility have no place in our country or Durham."

Update (Aug. 16): It looks like Baltimore City Councilman Brandon Scott's calls for "immediate" removal were literal. On Monday, the Baltimore City Council passed a resolution for the monuments' removal, and overnight last night, four were removed by city crews.

The protester who climbed a ladder to help bring down a Confederate soldier statue was arrested Tuesday, and Sheriff Mike Andrews said his office will pursue felony charges against others.

"Let me be clear, no one is getting away with what happened," Andrews said.

Takiyah Thompson, a member of Workers World Party and student at N.C. Central University, was arrested after activists held a press conference at NCCU Tuesday afternoon.

In a release Thompson said she was the one who tied a rope around the soldier's neck so that others could pull the statue to the ground.

The protest left The Confederate Soldiers Monument, dedicated on May 10, 1924, headless on the grass.

Thompson was charged with participation in a riot with property damage in excess of $1,500 (Class H Felony) and inciting others to riot where there is property damage in excess of $1,500 (Class F Felony), the Sheriff's Office said.

She also was charged with disorderly conduct by injury to a statue and damage to real property, both misdemeanors.

Activists are demanding all charges be dropped and that Gov. Cooper call for the immediate removal of all other Confederate statues.

Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings called his city's Confederate statues "monuments of propaganda", acknowledging the growing calls for their removal:

"This is simple. We could remove them, the question is, how do we heal on this issue? To do that we have to talk and listen to one another," said Rawlings.

Coupled with citizen input, the task force will report to the city council during the next 90 days.

Meanwhile, black lawmakers in the Capitol are saying its 9+ Confederate statues should go:

"We will never solve America's race problem if we continue to honor traitors who fought against the United States in order to keep African-Americans in chains. By the way, thank god, they lost," Congressional Black Caucus Chairman Cedric Richmond (D-La.) told ABC News.

However, a CBC aide told The Hill that the group is not currently working on any legislative efforts, like resolutions or letters, on Confederate statues in the Capitol. Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.), the sole African-American member of the Mississippi delegation, said: "It is past time for action to remove all Confederate symbols in the U.S. Capitol and on the Mississippi state flag." Previous calls for their removal have been unsuccessful. Only states have the power to remove those statues in the National Statuary Hall Collection. Rep. Hank Johnson, another Black Caucus member, has a slightly different take, however: "Congressman Johnson believes we should revise and supplement history with statues of other Americans who have contributed to our collective experience and story. The goal should be revision and inclusion as opposed to the obliteration of the nation's history," Johnson spokesman Andy Phelan said.

Update: Three more of the Durham activists have been arrested: Dante Strobino (35), Ngoc Loan Tran (24) and Peter Gull (39). All three, like Thompson (already arrested), are associated with the World Workers Party. Tran and Strobino are charged with felonies relating to inciting and participating in a riot that damaged property.

Meanwhile, in Georgia, gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams has called for the removal of a giant mountainside carving depicting Confederate figures, saying it "remains a blight on our state".

Removing the faces of Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson would take a monster of a sandblaster and require a change in state law. The Georgia code has a clear mandate for the memorial, saying it should be "preserved and protected for all time as a tribute to the bravery and heroism of the citizens of this state who suffered and died in their cause."

Lawmakers and civil rights groups have called for the removal of Confederate symbols at the memorial for years. After the 2015 shooting deaths of nine black worshipers by a white supremacist in Charleston, several legislators pushed for a boycott until Rebel flags at the site come down.

Update: A judge in Gwinnett County, Georgia, has been suspended for saying: "The nut cases tearing down monuments are equivalent to ISIS destroying history."

On Saturday, Hinkle had written that protesters in Charlottesville, Virginia were "snowflakes" with "no concept of history," as they came to counter a rally of white nationalists who gathered to oppose the planned relocation of a statue to Confederate General Robert E. Lee.

"In Charlottesville everyone is upset over Robert E. Lee statue," Hinkle's post said. "It looks like all of the snowflakes have no concept of history. It is what it is. Get over it and move on. Leave history alone - those who ignore history are deemed (sic) to repeat the mistake of the past."

That post was written approximately an hour before a car crashed into a group of counter-protesters in Charlottesville, killing a woman and injuring 19 other people. Police have charged the driver, who reportedly took part in the white nationalist rally, with second-degree murder.

Hinkle told the AJC he didn't "see anything controversial" about the posts.

"But you know, with the way things are going in the world today, I guess everything's controversial," he told the outlet.

Hysteria. His comment shouldn't have been controversial. In the face of public outcry, the civil way to remove an offensive statue or monument is to do so legally, and preserve the works for history - if such a step must be taken. Destruction of works of art and history is a crime. The library of Alexandria had some offensive books in it. The statues destroyed by ISIS were of heathen gods and ancient killers. Neither of those things justify the willful destruction of history. So yes, there is a comparison to be made between ISIS, book-burning Nazis, and monument-destroying leftists.

Update (Aug. 17): Trump's Interior Department has stated it won't be removing monuments to Confederate soldiers at national battlefields that are "an important part of our country's history."

"The National Park Service is committed to safeguarding these memorials while simultaneously educating visitors holistically and objectively about the actions, motivations and causes of the soldiers and states they commemorate," spokesman Jeremy Barnum told E&E News.
...
Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke said he supports Trump "in uniting our communities and prosecuting the criminals to the fullest extent of the law."

"The racism, bigotry and hate perpetrated by violent white supremacist groups has no place in America," Zinke told E&E News. "It does not represent what I spent 23 years defending in the United States military and what millions of people around the globe have died for. We must respond to hate with love, unity and justice."

The National Park Service maintains numerous monuments to Confederate soldiers at battlefield sites across the country.

For example, Gettysburg, Penn., has 12 monuments to Confederate soldiers. The Battle of Antietam, which took place near Sharpsburg, Md., in 1862, has six Confederate monuments.

A Gettysburg National Military Park spokeswoman toldThe Evening Sun Wednesday they were not removing Confederate monuments to those who fought at the Battle of Gettysburg in 1863.

"These memorials, erected predominantly in the early and mid-20th century, are an important part of the cultural landscape," Katie Lawhon said.

Zinke told reporters in July that battlefield monuments were worth preserving for their historical value.

"Don't rewrite history," Zinke said Antietam National Battlefield. "Understand it for what it is and teach our kids the importance of looking at our magnificent history as a country and why we are what we are."

Donna Brazile has called for the removal of 8 Confederate statues displayed in Congress. Amy Moreno writes, for TruthFeed:

The left is continuing their push to erase all Confederate monuments.

Just like ISIS, liberals are running from town to town, tearing down our Confederate statues, in the name of progressiveness and political correctness.

It's one of the most disgusting and disturbing things I have witnessed from the left.

Hundreds of people tried to symbolically turn themselves in before being directed away from the courthouse. "We do not want charges, especially felony charges brought against those who acted in our best interest," activist Serena Sebring told reporters at the courthouse Thursday. Sebring said she was not involved in Monday's action but was rallying with hundreds of others in support of those arrested and charged.
...
Four more activists turned themselves in Thursday, with the solidarity group accompanying them to jail. They have been identified as Raul Jimenez, 26, Aaron Caldwell, 24, Elena Everett, 27 and Taylor Cook, 24, all residents of Durham. They have been charged with three misdemeanor counts of causing injury to property and defacing a public monument, and two felonies for participating and inciting a riot with property damage in excess of $1,500. They will appear in court on Friday.

Caldwell told the Durham Herald-Sun he was notified by a legal team associated with the activists that there was a warrant for his arrest.

The crowd then returned to the courthouse where three other activists, who were arrested by Durham County sheriff deputies Wednesday, were scheduled for a court hearing. Those were identified as Peter Gilbert, 36, Dante Emmanuel Strobino, 35 and Loan Tran, 24 all of Durham.
...
"Our response to the charges that have been brought against myself and others involved and Takiyah, are [that] the charges are outrageous, the charges are unnecessary," Tran told the Herald-Sun. Tran added that the charges represented "a deeply racist, white supremacist system that is more interested in preserving its relics of white supremacy." She said people in her community are more concerned with issues surrounding policing, incarceration, education and immigration justice, "issues that are impacting our people every single day."

The three activists were given a court date of September 12.
...
Local lawmakers tried to intervene on behalf of the activists. Durham City Council member Charlie Reece approached Sheriff Mike Andrews not to press felony charges against the accused. Reece had questioned whether the statue, which he called a "hunk of junk metal" was worth $1,500, according to the Herald-Sun.

No, not outrageous or unnecessary. Just because you have an idiosyncratic view of history, that does not mean destroying public property, and art no less, is okay. It's still illegal. The United States during the Civil War was "deeply racist", on both sides. That doesn't mean that history should be effaced and destroyed. Instead it should be understood. But emotion trumps understanding for activists like this.

Update (Aug. 18): Vandals defaced (literally) a Robert E. Lee statue near the entrance of Duke Chapel in North Carolina on the night of the 16th/17th. And a statue of Supreme Court justice Roger B. Taney (who wrote the 1857 Dred Scott decision upholding slavery and denying African Americans citizenship) was legally removed from Maryland State House grounds this morning.

In other news, VICE magazine tweeted a call to blow up Mount Rushmore (and subsequently deleted it). They explained that the tweet was a failed "rhetorical device", misguided and insensitive. It's unclear what point they were actually trying to make. Since VICE isn't exactly right-leaning, they presumably weren't intending on pointing out the absurdity of destroying history.

ANNAPOLIS, MARYLAND
A statue of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Roger B. Taney, who wrote the 1857 Dred Scott decision that upheld slavery and denied citizenship to African-Americans, was removed from the grounds of the Maryland State House Friday and trucked away to storage. Three of four voting members of the State House Trust voted to move the bronze statue, which was erected in 1872.

HELENA, MONTANA
The city removed a granite fountain Friday that stood in a park as a monument to Confederate soldiers since 1916. One of a few people on hand to oppose the removal was detained when she defied orders to vacate the grounds of the fountain. She was later released.

BELLINGHAM, WASHINGTON
The city near the Canadian border removed signs identifying Pickett Bridge, which was named for Confederate Capt. George E. Pickett. North of Vancouver, former highway markers honoring Confederate President Jefferson Davis were splashed with red or black paint at a park on private land Friday.

NEW YORK
Transit officials will alter subway tiles at a Manhattan station that have a cross-like design similar to that of the Confederate flag. The design at the 40th Street entrance to the Times Square stop isn't flag-related but transit officials said they want to avoid confusion about their meaning. Earlier this week, plaques honoring Gen. Robert E. Lee were removed from the property of a now-closed Brooklyn church. Meanwhile, Gov. Andrew Cuomo has called on the Army to rename two streets at Fort Hamilton that honor Lee and another Confederate general.

DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA
A statue of Gen. Robert E. Lee at Duke University was found defaced Thursday. The statue in the entryway to Duke Chapel had damage to its nose. Another monument of a Confederate soldier that stood in front of a government office building in town was pulled down by protesters Monday night. Four people have been arrested, and authorities say more arrests are planned. Earlier, two statues in Wilmington were defaced with spray paint.

LEESBURG, VIRGINIA
A statue outside a courthouse dedicated to Confederate soldiers was vandalized. Obscenities and other graffiti were spray-painted on the 1908 monument sometime before dawn Thursday. The damage was repaired.

MADISON, WISCONSIN
A plaque honoring confederate soldiers was removed Wednesday from a cemetery and a second monument will be taken down later. The plaque lauded "the valiant" Confederate soldiers buried there. Mayor Paul Soglin said the Civil War was "a defense of the deplorable practice of slavery."

PHOENIX
A Confederate monument outside Phoenix was found covered in tar and feathers on Thursday. Earlier, the Confederate Troops Memorial outside the Arizona Capitol was spray-painted white. It was the second time in a week that the memorial had been vandalized.

BALTIMORE
Four Confederacy-related monuments were hauled away on trucks under cover of darkness late Tuesday night and early Wednesday. Mayor Catherine Pugh said she was concerned that such statues might spark violence.

KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE
A 1914 monument honoring fallen Confederate soldiers was splattered with paint earlier this week. Opponents are signing a petition to have it removed from a neighborhood near the University of Tennessee campus.

BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA
A 52-foot-tall obelisk honoring Confederate soldiers and sailors was covered by wooden panels at the mayor's order. The 1905 monument is in a downtown park. The cover-up Tuesday prompted a lawsuit by Alabama's attorney general, who argues that it violates a new law prohibiting the removal of historical structures, including rebel memorials.

LOS ANGELES
Hollywood Forever Cemetery, where many movie legends are interred, removed a 6-foot Confederate monument that was erected in 1925. The stone and attached plaque stood near the graves of more than 30 Confederate veterans and their families.

SAN DIEGO
The city removed a plaque naming Confederate President Jefferson Davis from a downtown plaza Wednesday. The 1926 plaque honored San Diego as the Western terminus of the Jefferson Davis Highway between Virginia and California.

Someone explain the difference between the confederate flag and the nazi flag?

You can't have a nazi flag in public in Germany and if you do, you could be arrested or shut down. No one debates this... what happened to free speech?

Why in america do they want to defend the confederate flag? History? Freedom of speech? I take you back to the nazi flag... surely I can stick it on a public square in Germany and claim history? After all... history is offensive yes?

LonSabbatical A confederate flag is not synonymous with black slavery, and refers to peoples from states with various stances on issues (arguably and likely not anymore, though). The nazi flag is pretty much the creation of Hitler's advisors, and Hitler's ideology included for a certainty getting rid of what he deemed "parasitical" people. Confederates, at least ideologically speaking, didn't like central government and tariffs that hurt the south, although slavery and racism were deeply entrenched their culture and were indeed used as reasons to secede (libertarians forget that sometimes). Not that I defend the confederate flag. Ancient history and frankly Lincoln's better than Davis.

But what I hear is that it's connected to supremacist groups.. people like the kkk and other hate groups. People who most likely love the nazi flag and probably hate all races not their own. This is what it has come to represent at at least in the public mind..

The nazi flag was an ancient symbol not connected with anything it is now...

In the end, doesn't perception matter? Don't you agree?

So given what it represents, wouldn't you say it's a symbol, of well... for a lack of a better word... hate. Yes or no?

So why fight to defend such a symbol? Freedom of speech? History?

Again, I take you back to the nazi flag. Basically I'm saying, if you are defending the confederate flag, you might as well defend the nazi flag. Nothing wrong with that... wear it with pride if you want. Freedom of speech. But yeah, be prepared to get a bit of a public shaming.. like that american tourist who got punched in germany for doing the nazi salute.

LonSabbatical There's no equivalence whatsoever between the two flags.

But what I hear is that it's connected to supremacist groups.. people like the kkk and other hate groups. People who most likely love the nazi flag and probably hate all races not their own. This is what it has come to represent at at least in the public mind.

Yes, certain special interests worked hard to make that representation. It's BS.

Not to be antagonistic... the meaning of that flag has changed. Just as the meaning of the St George flag temporarily changed during the rein of the EDL and BNP... you won't see any self respecting person flying that out their house in the UK. It's always the Union Jack...

Meaning and representation... confederation flag can mean more I guess and perhaps historically it was a whole mix as hoybneba said.. did you not sense the hesitation in their explanation though? When he/she said that he/she doesn't defend it... why was that there? Is that not due to the current objective nature of the meaning of that flag and its 'representers'?

So.. it looks like yes.. it does mean hate as the majority of the public perceive it (in your terms, the left). I guess you think by arguing against that you think you could change its meaning?

Ah right... Okay. I won't stand in the way of the parade. Good luck. Who knows... stranger things have happened.

LonSabbatical "When he/she said that he/she doesn't defend it... why was that there?"

Yes, you're right, and personally I have no problem with your ideas here. In the minds of the majority (who know what it looks like anyway), at least north of a certain latitude of a certain country, it seems so anachronistic as to represent racism. The Civil War pretty much defined the U.S. almost as much as the Revolutionary. I wouldn't necessarily assume people who fly it are racist or pro-slavery though, whereas the Nazi flag I would assume the worst of, if there is no additional explanation.

Niall Well, equivalence is what people make if it. If it was a flag with a big bunny instead of a swastika, it's all the same. It's legitimate to say the association has been forced, even fabricated. But once established in the public domain then it becomes real by force majure.

Personally, I would resist a direct equvalency between the Confederate flag(s) and those of Nazism. Their are ideological and historical links but they are secondary to the deeper roots of the movements that spawned both flags. But in the street-level world of politics the power of the direct association is a fact of life and it is on that level that the matter has to be faced up to.

The driving engine is the malicous Clintonite media and the un-educated stupidity of the Identity Politics Liberals. Damn both sides.

LonSabbatical The point here is the Truth LS. Not submitting to mainstream media propaganda. If we decide to do that, why did we all not cheer on the invasion and destruction of Iraq? After all, Saddam was a "bad man", according to the media, and Iraq supported "al-qaeda" according to the media and could hit the UK within 45 mins, according to the media. So given that that was the dominant perception, why didn't we all just support the US invasion of Iraq? Why? Because the Truth matters, that's why. Because it is more important and valuable than perceptions created by conscienceless hacks in the media.

LonSabbatical The Swastika was appropriated by the Nazis and turned into a real symbol of hate through the murder of millions of people under its banner. That is NOT the case with the Confederate flag.

If you want to talk about perceptions, let's talk about the Union Jack that you and so many other English people like to use to adorn your houses and notable buildings during national festivities because it represents your pride in your national identity etc. etc.

Where I come from that same Union Jack is a symbol of hatred and bigotry and racism, and is more likely to be burned and spat on, and for good reason given what was done under it.

LonSabbatical If 1% of the people who identify with a flag are racists and 99% of those who identify with the same flag are NOT, would you call that flag a symbol or racism?

I see what you are saying... thinking about it, it's the effect those 1% have on people's instincts. The 1% in this case call upon powers that are perhaps the worst to walk this planet... powers of mass genocides (think nazi concentration camps), powers of pure hate (think slavery, racism at its worst, think ideas of supremacy laid upon utter destruction of the 'other') etc. The neonazi and other like minded groups have such a strong effect on public consciousness that whatever they touch and associate with in turns becomes associated with them... not only them in the flesh and blood, but what they REPRESENT in the human psyche.

So in this case I would say the 99% would have to reclaim those symbols from the 1% amongst their midst. The onus should be on the sensible 'right' to claim back what they've lost to the 'far right'. They for sure won't listen to anything they consider 'left'.

Joe the british government has maintained such a good image it's crazy to fathom how. Politicians on the other hand haven't... the gov itself has.

The union jack has a good image. How? I don't know. It just does. In NI it doesn't but we all know the history... funny though that within the commonwealth, it does have a good image DESPITE history.

If you know the answers... let me know.

The american government on the other hand has a HORRENDOUS image. Every now and again, a politician within their ranks will be hailed but most leave a lot to be desired. Their flag is fast becoming a symbol of war and destruction which given a long enough period it'll be tarnished beyond repair. The fact that they don't even care about this only acts to speed up the process in the psyche of the rest of the planet.

Niall You comment is where the BS lies. The KKK and the nazis had/have very similar views - into-black, anti-jew, white supremacy etc. etc. And if you are not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem

I think it's beautiful and should have happened much earlier. And you guys comparing this with Taliban ? Seriously, that's the best you can do?

Are these left-winger motivated by religion and conservatism like the Taliban? NOPE. In fact, they are motivated by the oposite.

Do the monuments the taliban explode REPRESENT SLAVERY or white supremacy? No they don't... the Taliban destroys perfectly fine artistic and historical objects and monuments that don't signify slavery and white supremacy and therefore shouldn't be destroyed.

There, see how the Taliban (or ISIS) comparison is dumb? It's called a false symetry.

Eduardo For someone in the Taliban or ISIS who celebrates the destruction of ancient monument, they will have their own reasons, their own justifications - i.e. they see what they are doing is right and so do the people who want to destroy all the statues

The civil ware was 150 years ago ... there may be grounds for rational discussions and the removal of such effigies but there is no imperative need for them to be destroyed now. There is no justification for the explosion of anger that is demanding action now

There are 1001 justifiable causes for action and the MSM is quite capable of agitating the sheeple into a frothing frenzy on any one of these causes

If they were trying to tear down confederate regalia in a MUSEUM, I would be a hundred per cent against them, but this is IN FRONT OF A COUNTY COURTHOUSE and it's a monument to slave owning traders who fought a war to protect their "right" to OWN HUMAN BEINGS. The destruction of such monuments is more than justified on the grounds of morality and human rights, especially after the alt-right (neonazis) elected it as their symbol.

How can anyone compare this to Taliban unnecessarily exploding regular monuments out of moral conservatism and religious fundamentalism?

Eduardo Respecting your position on this issue, I feel these monuments are a reminder of how this country defeated oppression and slavery. Unlike those cult crazed idiots that symbolize them for their own deranged principles, I look at the statues and say "Yeah, we beat this." This may explain why, for the past 90 years they have stood, many must have felt the same way.

These monuments do not reflect this generation’s problems with racism, bigotry or violence towards each other. These current issues evolved through the years as America grew and are changing faster than its people. Our society has become more violent on its own, not because of the monuments from a war that ended in 1865.

Just more drama fueled by both sides who refuse to use their freaking brains. The ptb love this crap, it makes them feel better why they are subjugating us... Even though those psychopaths started it, people stupidly followed it and we're in this mess together because of that. The cycle of civilization coming to a new start soon, I hope.

This is obviously a staged provocation; the police have been told to stand down and let this happen. What if this were Occupy activists tearing down the bronze bull in Wall Street, they would have tasted the baton! They are trying to provoke right-wing groups to over-extend themselves and provide a justification for their police state and the removal of Trump. We need to stand strong against all violence, anyone using it for political ends is a terrorist by definition.

The Confederacy is not a symbol of racism, though obviously there is history here. Lincoln brought in freeing the slaves as a justification the same way the British brought in "The War to End All Wars" when the slaughter on the Western Front started to sink in at home. To try to stiffen up support for the war, to give all the dead something to have died for (rather than Empire and Wealth). Look at what the Union has become! I have sympathies as an Anarchist towards the self-governing aspects of Southern Separatism. All the Union cared about ensuring an anti-America didn't form in the South which the British and others could use to weaken the proto-American State. Slavery was only an issue economically, as it was an advantage the South had which reduced production costs. Morality never came into it. Leave the statues, as a reminder never again should Americans fight each other in a civil war. Maybe the purveyors of the new Civil War want to remove them for the same reason.

Well, where does the er, so-called postmodernism stop? People just grab at any old symbols they fancy, mix 'em all up and throw 'em out to get a reaction. I see at the top of the page, we've got a North Korean soldier in a sentry hut with the British fascist Mosley's Blackshirts 'lightning flash' symbol, AKA 'sig rune' which was stolen from antiquity by the Nazis and worn by the SS, used for David Bowie's 'Aladdin Sane' look, used by proto-'Industrial Music' group Throbbing Gristle, etc etc.

A lot of blacks in america are just whiney cry babies. The indentured irish slaves who were captured in the UK and sent to the new world were worth ten times less than their black counterparts and were usually summarily executed for infractions against their "slaver" where as blacks would only be severely punished. You NEVER see or hear Irish people complain. They got over it a hundred years ago. For many decades after, Irish were treated as second class citizens and subjected to many similar societal woes as were blacks in early "free" america.

These narcissistic fascist pigs are trying to rewrite history in a most ignorant way to help them sustain their deluded sense of reality.

They call people bigoted, then ignore everyone else's opinion. They cry over censorship, then censor history. The say everyone should be shown love and tolerated, then they show their hate. They call everyone fascist who is not in their little hippy dippy group, YET THEY ARE THE MOST FASCIST GROUP IN AMERICA. You absolutely HAVE to think like them or they classify you as trash. They think that representative government should ONLY REPRESENT THEM. They think that the government that they want should whitewash the rest of the world and play world police. This is fascism in it's purest form. Republicans and conservatives only care about controlling the money. These ANTIFA FASCISTS want to control your morality and sensibilities, they want to redistribute everyone's money but their own. They think they should have say over the rest of the world because they are that much more enlightened than the rest of the world.

The liberal movement in america is purely and truly nothing but a sick bunch of bigoted narcissistic fascists who are too ignorant to realize they are the ill they complain about and whom would slit throats literally if they thought they could get away with it (due to the fact that there victims would just be trash to begin with) That goes with the severe sense of narcissism. Also, the FACT that most all these people ever do is call others names without any supporting evidence for proof show not only just how ignorant most of these people are, but that they lack a considerably fair amount of critical thinking and self reflecting skills.

Just look at Black Lives Matter using that name, which leads them to the use of BLM for an acronym. BLM is the acronym for the federal Bureau of Land Management that was established in 1946. So to wrap up, the a ton of the liberals in america are narcissistic, bigoted, ignorant, discriminatory, prejudiced, unoriginal, whiny cry babies who are just too self important entitled to NOT cause exceptional problems in the society that they inhabit.

sbc My great grandmother was an indentured irish servant. There might not have been as many irish slaves as african slaves in America, but it IS true the INDENTURED SERVANTS were treated worse than black slaves at many a time. Plus at least it wasn't the irish that were providing their own for slavery as is the case in Africa.

The liberal movement in america is purely and truly nothing but a sick bunch of bigoted narcissistic fascists who are too ignorant to realize they are the ill they complain about and whom would slit throats literally if they thought they could get away with it (due to the fact that there victims would just be trash to begin with) That goes with the severe sense of narcissism. Also, the FACT that most all these people ever do is call others names without any supporting evidence for proof show not only just how ignorant most of these people are, but that they lack a considerably fair amount of critical thinking and self reflecting skills.

And exactly the same applies to the coservative or right wing side.

Bunch of white biggoted snowflakes who promote biggotary and hatred get offended by biggotary and hate towards them. You see some irony here ?

It is rather symbolic that the symbols of the last civil war in America and their removal is what could be the catalyst for igniting the next civil war. If we can not resolve the issue of these civil war statues in a civil way and respect history, will it then be the start of the uncivil war?

Is this what is needed to distract from the cosmic threat apart from all the real issues facing the US?

One, as far as I know. Perhaps they don't like hanging out on-line with pink people, but that's up to them, that ain't up to whitey. There ain't no colour bar here, apart from the one in your head, of course.

The effing ridiculous phrase "people of color" = mental masturbation.

If you were Black and had to walk by this shit every day of your life, grow up with Jim Crow second-class citizenship, discrimination, and all that that entails, hear stories of your elders and ancestors being lynched, would this be some intellectual fucking exercise?

Me personally? I probably wouldn't give a crap. I walk past WWI and WWII memorials every day of the week, I don't think: "as-a-white-working-class-cannon-fodder-type-I-find-this-offensive", although I suppose I could do if I wanted.

What do you mean "elders"? Pretentious crap. Mental masturbation.

White privilege mental masturbation."

If you've got a roof over your head, electricity, hot and cold running water, a computer, a means of transportation, an iPhone, you're already already one of the 1% of most privileged people that ever lived on the planet. The suffering of your ancestors is not your suffering. The suffering of your ancestors wasn't a choice, but to whatever extent, your suffering is, so yeah, I do think this is an as-you-put-it "intellectual fucking exercise", but then again, I think that of the white alt. right too. Whiney f*ckers obsessed with their meat-suits.

I also didn't notice many black people pulling down monuments - see picture above. It looks like a bunch of pampered white people who feel the need to display that they are more anti-racist than black people are

Makes me wonder where all this mass hysteria will end. Will we see the destruction of Mount Rushmore monument.

For those with eyes to see, color revolution comes to mind.

So sad to see a once great nation now imploding from within thanks to the manipulation of certain segments of society, especially the youth, the future leaders. As a result what we are witnessing IMO is the destruction of history of a nation (by design) resulting in the corruption of social and moral values.

It is so easy for the youth to forget the past, they have no interest. It is all about the "now" whatever that is.

Like many historical monuments throughout the world that are considered controversial, they serve as reminders of the past, without those reminders of "how things were back then" one cannot strive for a better world. Just my thoughts.

What seems to float the boat of the PTB most, and this would include all the phoney baloney machinations of so-called political correctness, as well as recent contrariwise alt. right bullshit about so-called raced-based IQ etc, is for black people and white people, both overtly and covertly, to be terrified of communicating with each other.

"Wow, such enlightened, empathetic commentary spewing out of some SOTT commenters!"

I'd rather hear something I disagreed with, than be stuck in a room full of mirrors with a load of plastic shit-eating saintly grins beaming back at me from all angles. Wouldn't you?

If you dig deep enough I'm sure there's a lot of that kind of thing about. LOL.

You see a lot of funny stuff on that 'Who Do You Think You Are?" family tree show they have on UK TV.

You'll get a situation with some puffed-up BBC thesp-type, expectant of finding a glittering genetic passage of royal European lineage action or whatever, only to find: paupers, drunks, murderers, etc. LOL.

Unethical symbols propagate, normalize unethical thinking and behaviours, just because something is history doesn't make it an existential role model to humanness. One supposedly is to learn and evolve from history and not emulate from its hoarding selfish psychopathic behaviours. Unethical symbols need to be quashed, collected and put into a learning museum. Delusional traditions need to die out, but chronicled, just as the thousands of religions in known history.

I have posted comments on other articles on this subject. Here is an excerpt from this news story: [Link]
" However, those arrested have something other than potential big fines in common. It turns out that at least three of them are members of the Communist Party. This seldom-reported fact is inconvenient to the narrative that the protest were spontaneous. The protests were in fact organized in large part by the communist Workers World Party, which the arrested members belong to. According to ABC News, Workers World Party is fighting to bring about a socialist America (emphasis added): It's a communist party that was founded in 1959 by a group led by Sam Marcy of the Socialist Workers Party. The group supports myriad issues including anti-racism to anti-imperialist struggles. The party is active in the Black Lives Matter movement and supports the struggles of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer community.The group says they're “dedicated to organizing and fighting for a socialist revolution in the United States and around the world.”The group said it destroyed the statue hoping to “take down white supremacy. ”

This is the logo of ANTIFA, which is identical to the logo of the German Communist Party of 1932: [Link]
Here for the third time are my comments on the lead article on SOTT:

As a resident of Charlottesville (Behind the Staples on Four Seasons Drive, across 29 from Fashion Square Mall,) and a longtime observer of the political circus, here is my take on THE GREAT GAME which we see unfolding before our eyes:

George Soros is funding Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and also the alt-right. Why?

It is intended to get a lot worse. Wait and watch. What you are seeing is 9-11-2001 Phase Two. The first phase brought us the Patriot Act, the TSA, total surveillance, drone assassinations, arming of police with battlefield weapons, asset forfeiture, the NDAA, and all manner of trashing of the Constitution.

There will shortly be a series of incidents of an outrageous and violent nature, intended to inflame this country into a civil war between the Mental North and the Mental South, and between the White and Black races, and between those who support the failed swamp-draining Trump and those who support the Communist Killary. (She was an ardent admirer and mail correspodent of Saul Alinsky in her youth - go look him up. Their letters are public record.) I have some idea of what these horrifyingly violent events will be, but cannot say, much as I would like to appear as a prophet, as if I am right I might be accused of being an accessory before the fact.

Once these incidents provoke sufficient mayhem, death, and property damage, the non-participating public will clamor for the restoration of Law and Order. This will be achieved by bringing out the National Guard, firing on rioters, roadblocks, random searches of cars and property, and knocks in the middle of the night with the detained never to be seen again, ID cards or chips, a proliferation of surveillance cameras and facial recognition which will track everyone everywhere, restrictions on travel, and much, much more. In short, it will be exactly like the countries of the Warsaw Pact until 1989, but with 21st-century technology to enforce it.

To what end? So that those who are planning this state of affairs and manipulating all these factions to violence against each other, can enslave all of us, of all persuasions and all races, under a militarized police state with a surveillance apparatus which would have made Stalin green with envy. They can then confiscate any of our property they take a liking to, confiscate our money if they feel we have too much, force us to work in slave camps, restrict our movements to authorized travel, parcel out educational privileges, food privileges, work privileges, housing privileges, and health treatment privileges according to our obedient compliance and submission to Authority, and if anyone breathes a word of dissent, they will be disappeared or made a horrible and cruel public example of.

As I posted above, this is the ANTIFA logo: [Link] Think what life was like behind the Iron Curtain, and be sure that that is what is coming here in America, for ALL of us, white and black, alt-left and alt-right, rich and poor, young and old.

And finally, remember that while Hitler or Mussolini killed perhaps 100,000 of their own people, Stalin killed 40 million, (besides and above the casualties of WWII,) Mao Tse-Tung killed about 60 million in the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, and Pol Pot in Cambodia killed 25% of his country's population. Communist dictators have been infinitely more bloody and murderous than Fascist dictators.

And that is what is planned for all the stupid sheep biting each other's behinds and rioting over nonsense about what happened over a century ago.

I'm old, thank God. (71 next month.) I'll be dead soon anyway. I probably won't live long enough to suffer too much under this vile and evil regime which the monumentally cretinous jackasses infesting this country are rushing headlong towards, god bless their stupid little pinheads one and all, but the rest of you will soon have to submit and endure for the rest of your miserable lives.

More comments here than I've ever seen on SOTT. The racists and bigots are really stirred up!

As for the article itself - "The statues destroyed by ISIS were of heathen gods and ancient killers" - I very possibly have never come across such a gross example of ignorance and bigotry before. How can anyone with even half a brain give the writer any credence?

"In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations."

- Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

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