ORLANDO, Fla. | Job No. 1 for Scott Pioli remains to change the losing culture that inevitably permeates an organization after it wins 10 games in three seasons, as the Chiefs have done.

The best way to continue that process, he decided, was to rock everybody’s world. Pioli, the Chiefs’ general manager, appears to have accomplished that with the team’s first free-agent signing.

Thomas Jones, a veteran running back who rushed for more than 1,400 yards last season, plays the same position as Jamaal Charles, who finished last season in a spectacular manner and was chosen the team’s most valuable player.

The message, Pioli said at the NFL meetings, was not aimed at Charles so much as everyone. That message: No matter what you’ve accomplished, don’t get too comfortable.

“I can’t tell you whether Jamaal will play more or Thomas Jones will play more,” Pioli said. “The roles will figure themselves out. The best players will play. The players will sort that out themselves. We’re trying to do this at every position. Look at the offensive line now. There are a number of players there that can start.

“Everyone is competing for jobs. That’s how teams get better.”

Pioli spent nine seasons as personnel director for the Patriots before he joined the Chiefs last year. Together with coach Bill Belichick, Pioli was charged with changing a similar culture in New England.

He told a story about New England signing a free agent to compete with an established starter in one of his first seasons with the Patriots. The incumbent publicly complained about the lack of respect his employers were showing.

“It uncovered a reality of the culture there that was very unhealthy,” Pioli said. “That was something we weren’t going to tolerate.”

Pioli said he has no concrete examples of Chiefs players feeling the same sense of entitlement but has no doubt it’s there.

“In the last 14 months, it’s been palpable,” Pioli said. “You can sense certain people seem or appear to have a degree of entitlement. The reality is that none of us are entitled to anything. We have to go out and prove ourselves every day in our jobs, all of us.”

Charles rushed for almost 1,000 yards over last season’s final eight games after taking over as the featured back from Larry Johnson. His 259 rushing yards in the final game against Denver set a franchise record.

The Chiefs wanted to find someone to help share the workload with Charles but came away with more than that in Jones. He was released by the Jets because he was due a large roster bonus.

New York wanted to re-sign Jones, but the Chiefs pried him away.

“We can’t always dictate the timing of a signing,” Pioli said. “He had just been released. This was the meeting point of need and opportunity. The player wanted to be here. We wanted him. We felt it was an upgrade. We said from the beginning we’re always going to try to create competition within our organization. This was not a statement about any other player.

“He’s still a very good player. He’s a very competitive, smart, tough player. He fits exactly what we’re looking for.”

The Chiefs face a similar situation with the free-agent signing of veteran center Casey Wiegmann, who previously played for the Chiefs from 2001 through 2007.

That move affects incumbent center Rudy Niswanger, who for the first time since he became a starter faces serious competition for his starting spot.
“Don’t make it out to be some sort of ominous sign that means this player is on the way out,” Pioli said. “Here’s what it means for Rudy: It means there’s going to be stiff competition for his position just like every other player has. We’re trying to get better.

“That competition will sort itself out. We’re trying to put the five best offensive linemen that fit out on the field. Other than that, we’re not going to be boxed into anything.”

Wiegmann played two seasons for Denver after leaving the Chiefs. The Broncos released him after last season’s end in part because they believed at 285 pounds he had trouble standing his ground against increasingly large defensive tackles.

But Pioli said the Chiefs saw the situation differently.

“He played well last season,” Pioli said. “He was effective. We went back and watched games specifically against some of the bigger players and the bigger nose tackles and Casey played well. He’s a very smart, crafty football player and still a solid starter in the National Football League.”

Including guard Ryan Lilja, the Chiefs now have four players with extensive starting experience for the three inside spots on their offensive line.

Lilja and Brian Waters figure to start at guard, leaving Wiegmann and Niswanger to compete at center.

In addition to Jones, Wiegmann and Lilja, the Chiefs signed wide receiver Jerheme Urban and defensive tackle Shaun Smith and re-signed two of their own free agents, linebacker Mike Vrabel and wide receiver Chris Chambers.

In keeping with the pattern Pioli set with the Patriots and last year with the Chiefs, none will make big money. Lilja gets $7.5 million over three years, Jones $5 million over two.

Chambers ($1.9 million) and Vrabel ($1.6 million) will get make less than $2 million in base salary this year. Wiegmann ($855,000) can climb to about $2 million with incentives if he winds up as the starter.

Urban and Smith will each make $630,000.

While Pioli was with the Patriots, rarely did New England distort its salary structure for free agents. The Patriots were willing to pay big money to their own players they wanted to retain.

“I wouldn’t say I’m satisfied with what we’ve done but I’m encouraged that we’ve done some things to make our football team better,” Pioli said. “When I say better, I feel we’re better in the locker room and I feel that we’re better on the field.”

SNR

03-22-2010, 11:14 PM

I love your philosophy, Scott. You're absolutely right. No player is entitled to a job.

So you'll be drafting Clausen this April, right?

DaWolf

03-22-2010, 11:17 PM

I love your philosophy, Scott. You're absolutely right. No player is entitled to a job.

So you'll be drafting Clausen this April, right?

:)

The funny thing is that I think everyone has written Brodie Croyle off as a Matt Cassel alternative except for Todd Haley, who seems very intrigued by him...

I love your philosophy, Scott. You're absolutely right. No player is entitled to a job.

So you'll be drafting Clausen this April, right?

That's right: Mike Goff EARNED his job.

So did Jake O'Connell and Rudy Niswanger and Matt Cassel.

Uh huh.

'Hamas' Jenkins

03-22-2010, 11:19 PM

"New York wanted to re-sign Jones, but the Chiefs pried him away."

And when Jones gave NY a chance to match, they declined.

Teicher is a complete fucking hack.

SNR

03-22-2010, 11:19 PM

You want to shake up the culture?

Bring in a ****ing franchise quarterback.LAWL HOW CAN U HAV A QB IF HE DUZNT HAV A LINE!!!1111

RustShack

03-22-2010, 11:20 PM

All I got from that article was, with the fifth overall pick of the 2010 draft the Kansas City Chiefs select Jimmy Clausen, QB Notre Dame.

Tribal Warfare

03-22-2010, 11:20 PM

Matt Cassel, "I played well" which was after the Denver game when KC lost 44-13

'Hamas' Jenkins

03-22-2010, 11:21 PM

It's pretty obvious that making Bobby Wade and Lance Long focal points of the offense 5 days after they came off the street was because they'd proven they were the best players.

Tribal Warfare

03-22-2010, 11:38 PM

:)

The funny thing is that I think everyone has written Brodie Croyle off as a Matt Cassel alternative except for Todd Haley, who seems very intrigued by him...

I believe Brodie can do it, but if your OC doesn't and his guy is in range to be a KC draft pick then you select him.

Numbah One

03-22-2010, 11:39 PM

You want to shake up the culture?

Bring in a fucking franchise quarterback.

http://uranus.ckt.net/%7Egochiefs/Animation1.gif

DaneMcCloud

03-22-2010, 11:41 PM

I believe that Adam Teicher has NO idea that he's lucky to have a job

rtmike

03-22-2010, 11:43 PM

In keeping with the pattern Pioli set with the Patriots and last year with the Chiefs, none will make big money.

While Pioli was with the Patriots, rarely did New England distort its salary structure for free agents. The Patriots were willing to pay big money to their own players they wanted to retain.

I don't understand the media lovefest with Pioli's track record of being cheap.

When he left the Patriots they were in cap hell after franchising Castle. Only after trading him & Vrabel did they have breathing room.

whatever...

Tribal Warfare

03-22-2010, 11:48 PM

A more dreadful assumption would be if Pioli is inferring about the OT situation.

Shaid

03-22-2010, 11:49 PM

So this is turning into a Cassel bashing thread? Great, we needed one more of those.

:rolleyes:

Tribal Warfare

03-22-2010, 11:50 PM

So this is turning into a Cassel bashing thread? Great, we needed one more of those.

:rolleyes:

damn right PBJ

Shaid

03-22-2010, 11:51 PM

I don't understand the media lovefest with Pioli's track record of being cheap.

When he left the Patriots they were in cap hell after franchising Castle. Only after trading him & Vrabel did they have breathing room.

whatever...

They franchised him because they knew they could get a pick out of him. That's being a smart GM.

Marcellus

03-23-2010, 06:22 AM

The Chiefs wanted to find someone to help share the workload with Charles but came away with more than that in Jones. He was released by the Jets because he was due a large roster bonus.

New York wanted to re-sign Jones, but the Chiefs pried him away.

The Jets didn't want him back, even when given the opportunity to match the Chiefs final offer.

And that's just one example. Feel free to tell us where else he visited or who else made him a contract offer.

Pretty much.

Why don't you go ahead and prove otherwise instead of acting like a jackass?

Because he can't.

So KC wasn't the only team that wanted Jones? The Jets did want him back?

Wow I was told here at CP that we picked him out of the dumpster. That KC was his ONLY option.

OnTheWarpath58

03-23-2010, 06:41 AM

The Chiefs wanted to find someone to help share the workload with Charles but came away with more than that in Jones. He was released by the Jets because he was due a large roster bonus.

New York wanted to re-sign Jones, but the Chiefs pried him away.

So KC wasn't the only team that wanted Jones? The Jets did want him back?

Wow I was told here at CP that we picked him out of the dumpster. That KC was his ONLY option.

Tell you what.

You believe Adam Teicher, who's a complete hack, or believe Pat Kirwan, Tim Ryan, Soloman Wilcots and Randy Cross - all of whom reported on Sirius NFL Radio that they were personally told that the Jets were given an opportunity to match the contract the Chiefs offered, and the Jets declined.

RustShack

03-23-2010, 06:49 AM

The Chiefs wanted to find someone to help share the workload with Charles but came away with more than that in Jones. He was released by the Jets because he was due a large roster bonus.

New York wanted to re-sign Jones, but the Chiefs pried him away.

So KC wasn't the only team that wanted Jones? The Jets did want him back?

Wow I was told here at CP that we picked him out of the dumpster. That KC was his ONLY option.

The Jets were given the chance to match our small offer to Jones and they declined.. there were also no other teams interested in Jones..

Pushead2

03-23-2010, 06:54 AM

The Jets were given the chance to match our small offer to Jones and they declined.. there were also no other teams interested in Jones..

this, I live in NY and it was all over the local sports segments and newpapers like the Daily News, Post, and Newsday.

It was either Jets or Chiefs and that's it.

OnTheWarpath58

03-23-2010, 07:19 AM

this, I live in NY and it was all over the local sports segments and newpapers like the Daily News, Post, and Newsday.

It was either Jets or Chiefs and that's it.

So, to recap:

Pat Kirwan, Tim Ryan, Randy Cross, Soloman Wilcots, The New York Daily News, The New York Post and Newsday all reported that the Jets were given an opportunity to match the offer made by KC and declined.

Adam Teicher says the Jets wanted him back.

Damn, this one is hard to figure out. Was it Professor Plum in the Library with the candlestick?

Dark Horse

03-23-2010, 07:35 AM

to sum it up , the Chiefs are garbage the Chiefs will always be garbage so any player no matter how he gets here if he joins the Chiefs he too must be garbage.

Fairplay

03-23-2010, 07:39 AM

They need more signings then that to impress me.

Chiefs need a major overhaul. We've just begun IMO.

spanky 52

03-23-2010, 07:39 AM

I like the signing of Jones the best so far. He's pissed the Jet's cut him and wants to prove them wrong. He still has some mileage left and has a great attitude.

InChiefsHell

03-23-2010, 07:49 AM

Yeah I hadn't heard that the Jets wanted him...more like they didn't feel like spending on him so they let him go. But I still think we got an excellent signing out of it...

Otter

03-23-2010, 07:53 AM

These guys have given me hope for the first time in sooooo long. :deevee:

DumbHillbillies

03-23-2010, 07:57 AM

:clap:

jspchief

03-23-2010, 07:58 AM

I'm sorry, but I'd prefer signings were used to improve the team rather than "send a message".

In fact, a much better way to send that message would be something along the lines of "Mike Brown, you have been horrible on gameday, get the F off my team".

OnTheWarpath58

03-23-2010, 08:00 AM

I'm sorry, but I'd prefer signings were used to improve the team rather than "send a message".

In fact, a much better way to send that message would be something along the lines of "Mike Brown, you have been horrible on gameday, get the F off my team".

:clap:

Marcellus

03-23-2010, 08:27 AM

So, to recap:

Pat Kirwan, Tim Ryan, Randy Cross, Soloman Wilcots, The New York Daily News, The New York Post and Newsday all reported that the Jets were given an opportunity to match the offer made by KC and declined.

Adam Teicher says the Jets wanted him back.

Damn, this one is hard to figure out. Was it Professor Plum in the Library with the candlestick?

So they go sign LT? That makes a lot of sense to me. Go from a 1400 yard back to a 500 yard back.

I am sure they are they much happier to have LT than Jones.:rolleyes:

DBOSHO

03-23-2010, 08:32 AM

Man i hope to jesus that we can draft berry and cassel gets better. Idk if i can sit though another kc game with "touchdown" mike brown in the secondary. Fuck that shit.

Frosty

03-23-2010, 08:39 AM

I'm sorry, but I'd prefer signings were used to improve the team rather than "send a message".

In fact, a much better way to send that message would be something along the lines of "Mike Brown, you have been horrible on gameday, get the F off my team".

I don't see Mike Brown on the roster (http://www.kcchiefs.com/team/roster.html). Is there any talk of of re-signing him?

Ralphy Boy

03-23-2010, 08:39 AM

They need more signings then that to impress me.

Chiefs need a major overhaul. We've just begun IMO.

I was just thinking about how, based on creating competition, they need to draft another DE to compete with TJ's suck.

If they really want to create competition, they could have kicked the tires on Dwan Edwards or Cory Redding. They wouldn't even have to say that either would replace TJ, it could be that they'd just be depth or replace Dorsey, who wasn't their pick so they wouldn't be admitting the failure of a rookie season that TJ had.

jspchief

03-23-2010, 08:48 AM

I don't see Mike Brown on the roster (http://www.kcchiefs.com/team/roster.html). Is there any talk of of re-signing him?No.

My point was, we just endured an entire season of seeing certain players play horrible week in and week out. The team was terrible, so there was little reason to not start "sending messages" by putting other guys on the field.

If there is any sense of entitlement on this team, it was fostered by the lack of roster moves in several positions last year. The entire "sending a meesage through off-season moves" idea may just be a fabricated way to dress up a "Chiefs try to get better " article, but the notion that it's a good way to scare players into being better strikes me as absurd.

mcaj22

03-23-2010, 09:00 AM

So they go sign LT? That makes a lot of sense to me. Go from a 1400 yard back to a 500 yard back.

I am sure they are they much happier to have LT than Jones.:rolleyes:

LT is a name. Like TO or Moss. He maybe up there in age but he still is a face that gets some attention. Jets fans will buy his jersey in the same way they did Favre. He is a better name than Thomas Jones regardless of who performs better. LT will put people in the seats. It was a good move for the Jets and at the same time a great move for us with Jones because he is a player we need.

I agree with others that the logic of this article is silly, because if nobody's job is safe then why does the 60 million dollar QB get a free pass but the only player that actually performed last year on offense in JC doesn't? You might as well draft a CB in the first round and give Brandon Flowers some competition too with that logic.

Brock

03-23-2010, 09:02 AM

Why do people keep bringing up Lawrence Taylor? He's been retired for a long, long time.

DeezNutz

03-23-2010, 09:03 AM

Sweet! First sentence: "change the...culture." Yes!

Empty fucking rhetoric, FTMFW.

chiefscafan

03-23-2010, 09:56 AM

Ok for the people quoting Sirius NFL radio and the NFL network you need to tell the whole story. Yes the jets had a chance to match the offer and they declined. However you fail to mention that every source I previously mentioned said we can't figure out why they wouldn't.

Also when LT was signed these same sources were like why would you decline the chance to resign jones to sign LT maybe the jets see something we don't but the chiefs I think got the better of the deal.

On a personal note I live in CA and the only time I see the chiefs is the SD game. I've watched the last five and while LT was amazing the first two, when he wasn't injured, has looked a step slower every year. He'll be running behind a great line so maybe he will look good but he doesn't have the burst he use to. Jones is the better signing plus jones seems to run better when he is pissed off at his previous team. Example TB after beening told he sucked with zona and the Jets after being let go by Chicago. Also all u need to know what kind of teamate and locker room person he was by the jets publicly thanking him for 3 years of service. Believe me guys these are the kind of signings pioli is famous for. Have faith in him guys HErm and Carl left a big mess that pioli and Hailey are almost done cleaning up. Mark my words we are a powerhouse team again in a little less than two years. Good times are ahead.

FD

03-23-2010, 11:02 AM

Pioli said he has no concrete examples of Chiefs players feeling the same sense of entitlement but has no doubt it’s there.

Ahem, Brian Waters.

FD

03-23-2010, 11:03 AM

“I can’t tell you whether Jamaal will play more or Thomas Jones will play more,” Pioli said. “The roles will figure themselves out. The best players will play.

Like LJ playing over Charles?

DaneMcCloud

03-23-2010, 11:25 AM

Like LJ playing over Charles?

Or Goff over ANYONE

Or Vrabel over Studebaker

Or game planning the offense around Lance Long

Or benching and cutting Mark Bradley in favor of Lance Long

Or bitching out Dwayne Bowe early and often, thus fucking with his confidence

Or Niswanger versus a corpse

Or Mike Brown versus a corpse

See, there's no history there!

rtmike

03-23-2010, 03:32 PM

I don't see Mike Brown on the roster (http://www.kcchiefs.com/team/roster.html). Is there any talk of of re-signing him?

I read that he's an unrestricted fa & still unsigned.

Could this mean we're going after a quality safety in the draft? Who knows...

But by not signing him & the other two practice squad players, that leaves only Morgan, McGraw & Page.

WildTurkey

03-23-2010, 05:04 PM

A thread with a lot of people bitching.... am I in the right place? I swear I clicked on chiefsplanet
Posted via Mobile Device

keg in kc

03-23-2010, 05:13 PM

Like LJ playing over Charles?From what I remember, according to pretty much everybody who watched him in during workouts in KC or at camp (I did not...) he was supposedly a "changed man" who'd bought into the new philosophy and was busting his ass off to earn his job. 'course, in the end, he was just a psycho as always, but it was never presented as some kind of situation where he was just handed a job.

And actually Dane brings up Bowe, albeit for another reason, and he's the perfect example of non-entitlement. Same for Albert and his weight loss. This sort of tougher work ethic and everybody competing is something that started in 2009. We saw all sorts of examples of it last year during camp, when they were running those guys ragged. Wasn't there a vet o-linemen who didn't even make the team because he didn't want to do all the running?

Big change from Vermeil's veteran camp/wine-tasting and Herm was purportedly even easier on them.

DeezNutz

03-23-2010, 05:40 PM

Whoa, Vermeil was not someone who ran "easy" practices, but he was someone who was petrified of rookies.

So there's a bit of balance there.

keg in kc

03-23-2010, 06:02 PM

Whoa, Vermeil was not someone who ran "easy" practices, but he was someone who was petrified of rookies.

So there's a bit of balance there.I've slept a lot since then, but if memory serves, he ran long practices, but I'm not sure how "hard" they were, from a conditioning standpoint. I also seem to remember that he regularly let veterans sit out, to keep from taxing them. This is even more subjective, but I don't remember thinking at any time that that team had any special degree of toughness, either. I remember a kind of softness that I was hoping Herm might offset (being a defensive-mind coach; I'm sure I talked about this in 2006), but he only seemed to make it worse.

I know a lot of people mock the "right 53" thing, but I actually really like that approach, at least in theory, finding (talented) players who'll buy into the system and fight their asses off. I think that's something that's been missing here for a long, long time. A team that will knock you on your ass. Or rather, a talented team that will knock you on your ass. I still believe that's the ultimate failure of Vermeil's tenure here; the cerebral, "I'm going to out-finesse (and out-stat...) you" approach rather than an "I'm going to line up and beat you" attitude.

But that's a tangent.

BossChief

03-23-2010, 06:15 PM

Vermeils practices were as hard as I have seen in the NFL. Im sure those that went know what Im talking about. Especially his first couple years here.

Whew. Tough.

keg in kc

03-23-2010, 06:16 PM

I thought everybody used Marty as the benchmark for ridiculous practices?

(I wasn't here for him. Fortunately.)

DeezNutz

03-23-2010, 06:21 PM

Arguably one of the biggest misconceptions about the Vermeil era is that the team was "soft."

Evidence A: o-line.

These mother****er were as tough and nasty as they come. Entire group of ass-beaters.

Vermeil, relatively speaking, was a worthless sack of ****ing shit (in KC), but don't let all the hugs and tears fool you.

Marty gained fame for "toughness" because of his implementation of the Oklahoma drill and his relentless attention to detail. If you need to win a single regular season game, I can't think of a better coach than Marty. Motherfucker can coach his ass off.

keg in kc

03-23-2010, 07:21 PM

It wasn't a misconception at all. The individual players may have been nasty - and I don't think anybody in the entire NFL is "soft," in that sense - but that team was not tough, as a whole. Sure, they had the occasional game where they came out and made a statement (hi, Ray Lewis), but that team was a lot of flash and sizzle. And there's nothing wrong with that, except that there was never any nasty in the way they played as a team. It was more obvious with the defense, of course. Late game collapse after late game collapse. But it was that way with the offense, too. They could spread the field and confuse the defense from dusk til dawn, but the one thing they could never do consistently is line up and just straight-up knock the other team off the ball when all they needed was that one yard.

And Marty's a clown.

DeezNutz

03-23-2010, 07:24 PM

The defense was "soft" because of a lot of LOFT--lack of ****ing talent. The majority of the money went to the offensive side.

And the offense couldn't consistently knock people off the ball? I honestly could not disagree more.

There isn't anyone on this board who disliked Grandpa more, but saying his teams were soft is just plain inaccurate.

keg in kc

03-23-2010, 07:27 PM

The defense was "soft" because of a lot of LOFT--lack of ****ing talent.

And the offense couldn't consistently knock people off the ball? I honestly could not disagree more. Not when it counted, they couldn't. That was not an offense built for a close game in the 4th quarter, trying to hold the ball to win. Come from behind, keep a shootout close, sure. But they were kind of the anti-marty, exact opposite problem he had. If we could find a way to blend Marty and Dick, we'd have the perfect coach.There isn't anyone on this board who disliked Grandpa more, but saying his teams were soft is just plain inaccurate.Sorry, bud, but that's my opinion, and it ain't changing...

I've felt that way for years. That team was all about mind-games, rather than going out and just beating the other team. That's what I mean when I talk about toughness. Chess matches over football. Big stats over winning.

DeezNutz

03-23-2010, 07:38 PM

I think you're seeing the difference between a tough as hell offense and a tough as hell defense. Nothing more.

That offensive line could pretty much do what it wanted to, when it wanted to. It was a True Fan's wet dream.

Chiefaholic

03-23-2010, 07:42 PM

The more I read quotes from the media, the more I think we're drafting Clausen with the #5 overall. The Chiefs brass doesn't have the nads to take a safety that high, despite the game changing potential Berry brings. I honestly don't think Cassell's salary will be an issue in our first pick given the room we have under the cap. And if Clark wants national attention on game day, he HAS to get somebody in here that makes people WANT to watch the Chiefs on Monday night. That's why I think Clausen will be #5...

KC Tattoo

03-23-2010, 07:45 PM

Let me get this right (Pioli) Bring in a vet who has had a good career but just has a little bit left in the tank. He beats out the rooky or younger player who has upside leaves him on the bench so he doesn't get better or playing time. Then the vet shows his age and doesn't perform as well. Then throw in the rooky late in the season and make him prove himself with only a few games left.

My philosophy, let the kids who have potential to be better than the vets play. So that they learn and get better, so that they get experiance & chohesiveness (sp) something like that. IMO the players Herm got in the draft were better than the vets Pioli and Haley got. They just needed coached up and playing time.
The young players can grow with the team and get better, the vets get old and rust out. Compitition is good but sometimes if you got a guy that has potential to be better you play him. JMHO

Mecca

03-23-2010, 07:45 PM

The more I read quotes from the media, the more I think we're drafting Clausen with the #5 overall. The Chiefs brass doesn't have the nads to take a safety that high, despite the game changing potential Berry brings. I honestly don't think Cassell's salary will be an issue in our first pick given the room we have under the cap. And if Clark wants national attention on game day, he HAS to get somebody in here that makes people WANT to watch the Chiefs on Monday night. That's why I think Clausen will be #5...

In case you missed it...there is no salary cap.

keg in kc

03-23-2010, 07:47 PM

I think there's a disconnect here that's probably my fault for not being clear enough. When I talk about "toughness", I'm not talking about a physical attribute. I'm talking about a psychological one. Toughness as in willpower, as in an ability to overcome adversity. And I think that's something the Chiefs have been missing for the decade plus that I've watched them. I see it in the way they carry themselves on the field and on the sideline. I think it's reflected to a degree in the way the fans have this "what's next?" attitude. What bad draft pick are they going to make? How are they going to blow this game? That "here we go again" look they get late in games when, inevitably, everything falls apart. How we're always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Because since the late 90s, the other shoe does always drop. Because the team lacks....something. Not just talent. Some of it's knowing how to win. Some of it's swagger. Maybe "toughness" is a bad word, but it's the one I've always used.

Chiefaholic

03-23-2010, 07:55 PM

In case you missed it...there is no salary cap.

I realize that, smartass... But, there just MIGHT be in a couple years when the two sides come to an agreement. It doesn't matter who we draft, Cassel will start the season. If he plays like last year, then Clausen could start by mid-season. Then the Chiefs would either cut or restructure Cassell's contract before he's due his roster bonus.

RedThat

03-23-2010, 08:01 PM

I think you're seeing the difference between a tough as hell offense and a tough as hell defense. Nothing more.

That offensive line could pretty much do what it wanted to, when it wanted to. It was a True Fan's wet dream.

Those offensive lines were sick. Ive never seen such crisp blocking in my life. Every time the Chiefs touched the ball on offense, the lineman were monsters, they either drove guys off balance or to the ground a lot of times. It was a thing of beauty. I miss that.

DeezNutz

03-23-2010, 08:04 PM

I think there's a disconnect here that's probably my fault for not being clear enough. When I talk about "toughness", I'm not talking about a physical attribute. I'm talking about a psychological one. Toughness as in willpower, as in an ability to overcome adversity. And I think that's something the Chiefs have been missing for the decade plus that I've watched them. I see it in the way they carry themselves on the field and on the sideline. I think it's reflected to a degree in the way the fans have this "what's next?" attitude. What bad draft pick are they going to make? How are they going to blow this game? That "here we go again" look they get late in games when, inevitably, everything falls apart. How we're always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Because since the late 90s, the other shoe does always drop. Because the team lacks....something. Not just talent. Some of it's knowing how to win. Some of it's swagger. Maybe "toughness" is a bad word, but it's the one I've always used.

Don't disagree with this.

RedThat

03-23-2010, 08:17 PM

I think there's a disconnect here that's probably my fault for not being clear enough. When I talk about "toughness", I'm not talking about a physical attribute. I'm talking about a psychological one. Toughness as in willpower, as in an ability to overcome adversity. And I think that's something the Chiefs have been missing for the decade plus that I've watched them. I see it in the way they carry themselves on the field and on the sideline. I think it's reflected to a degree in the way the fans have this "what's next?" attitude. What bad draft pick are they going to make? How are they going to blow this game? That "here we go again" look they get late in games when, inevitably, everything falls apart. How we're always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Because since the late 90s, the other shoe does always drop. Because the team lacks....something. Not just talent. Some of it's knowing how to win. Some of it's swagger. Maybe "toughness" is a bad word, but it's the one I've always used.

I agree. What they lack psychologically is "killer instinct."

They don't play with enough of an edge or attitude I should say.
At least I haven't seen that from them? They're missing attitude dude.

The type of attitude Im referring to is playing with that mean streak that every Sunday when you go out there it's war, you're prepared to kill guys, crush any opposition that enters your path. Playing with that edge to the point where teams are afraid of you. I'd like to see them have that mentality. It sure worked well for the Steelers in 70's. And if Pittsburgh is the franchise this team is modelling around then I hope they go with that approach, it blends in perfectly with the violent nature of the sport.

*They need to draft some mean suckers. Particularily on defense. Mean, tough, nasty sob's that resemble the mean joe greene's of the world, or the Jack Lamberts and Jack Hams types. Im dreaming, but it's sure as good to do that.

Molitoth

03-23-2010, 08:22 PM

I agree. What they lack psychologically is "killer instinct."

They don't play with enough of an edge or attitude I should say.
At least I haven't seen that from them? They're missing attitude dude.

The type of attitude Im referring to is playing with that mean streak that every Sunday when you go out there it's war, you're prepared to kill guys, crush any opposition that enters your path. Playing with that edge to the point where teams are afraid of you. I'd like to see them have that mentality. Go with that approach, it blends in perfectly with the violent nature of the sport.

In other words, players are just happy to get a paycheck. It's the teams who want more than that who end up winning super bowls.

RedThat

03-23-2010, 08:26 PM

In other words, players are just happy to get a paycheck. It's the teams who want more than that who end up winning super bowls.

A lot of the players we have don't have the mentality to be great. All about attitude. Were missing guys with the right attitude that could change this losing culture and take us to another level.

Chiefaholic

03-23-2010, 09:04 PM

I agree. What they lack psychologically is "killer instinct."

They don't play with enough of an edge or attitude I should say.
At least I haven't seen that from them? They're missing attitude dude.

The type of attitude Im referring to is playing with that mean streak that every Sunday when you go out there it's war, you're prepared to kill guys, crush any opposition that enters your path. Playing with that edge to the point where teams are afraid of you. I'd like to see them have that mentality. It sure worked well for the Steelers in 70's. And if Pittsburgh is the franchise this team is modelling around then I hope they go with that approach, it blends in perfectly with the violent nature of the sport.

*They need to draft some mean suckers. Particularily on defense. Mean, tough, nasty sob's that resemble the mean joe greene's of the world, or the Jack Lamberts and Jack Hams types. Im dreaming, but it's sure as good to do that.

Then the NFL would get flag happy and tone down the defense if they played with heart. Heaven forbid somebody's franchise player get his clock cleaned on the field with a hard hit. The NFL would lose viewers, and they'll have none of that

BossChief

03-23-2010, 10:08 PM

I think our problem now isn't anything to do with Dick Vermeil.

Matter of fact, I don't think it was Dicks fault back then, either.

Dick didn't hire Gunther.

Dick didn't blow every first round pick from ever until 2006.

Carl did those things that damned us for the last 10+ years.

Carl Peterson

Im gonna go take a shot and toast to him not being here anymore.

Mecca

03-23-2010, 10:37 PM

Well it's on Carl for giving his coaches way to much say in draft picks.

For the most part coaches need to shut up on draft day they don't scout these players.

bigbucks24

03-23-2010, 10:39 PM

Speaking of signing free agents, what would you guys think of Jason Taylor? He's looking for a 2 year deal worth $5M. As of yet, the Dolphins have yet to contact him (or return his advances). Could the Chiefs use a 36 year old, gonna be HOF WOLB?

Mecca

03-23-2010, 10:42 PM

I'm pretty sure the Chiefs can use anything that gets Mike Vrabel off the field but since he's a Pioli guy, won't happen.

DeezNutz

03-23-2010, 10:52 PM

****, yes, it had a tremendous amount to do with Vermeil.

But this argument is well rehearsed. Hated rookies. Carl gave his HCs way, way too much say and authority with the draft and personnel decisions, etc.

Vermeil and CP were the perfect combination to cripple the franchise.

Mecca

03-23-2010, 10:55 PM

Hell the one time Carl decided to make the pick, Vermiel acted like someone pissed in his face.

DeezNutz

03-23-2010, 10:58 PM

Perfect example for why things were a complete mess.

Coaches coach. GMs and scouts acquire talent. The whole Parcells' line about cooking and needing to select the ingredients is bullshit. Bull. Shit.

Mecca

03-23-2010, 11:00 PM

Perfect example for why things were a complete mess.

Coaches coach. GMs and scouts acquire talent. The whole Parcells' line about cooking and needing to select the ingredients is bullshit. Bull. Shit.

It's absolute bullshit, most coaches have no idea about players. A GM, at least a good GM is smart enough to realize he knows more about the players than the coach does and the scouts know even more..you listen to the people that know.