If you didn't pull the dist and it ran fine then it probably isn't the dist
so don't pull it. It still sounds like an ignition/timing issue. Did you
add new wires? Maybe they're off by one. Run #1 cyl to TDC on comp stroke
and pop the top of the cap to see where the rotor is pointing. It should be
very close to #1 plug wire.

Ken Payne wrote:
>
> No way to tell. You have to measure the stroke.
>

Now there is an idea. Remove a spark plug and slowly crank the engine till that
cyl is at BDC with a small 1/4" dia wood rod see how far it will go in! If the
390 and 360 list members will do the same we would be able to come up with a
measurement that might be enough different from a 360 to tell!

If fooling with the distributor doesn't work, make sure you have a good
continuouse circuit through your starter to the coil. I recently helped
with a Ch**y upgrade in a Nova. The engine would crank but wouldn't
start. I traced down my friends wiring and found that he was getting
fire to the coil when the ignition switch was in the "start" position
but had no fire to the coil when the switch was release to the "run"
position. He had the wiring wrong to his starter. If nothing else works
check that out.

George Schott wrote:
>
> Thanks for the comments fellas I don't understand how it can be the
> distributor the motor ran fine when I pulled it from the car and I
> did'nt rebuild the motor and did'nt touch the distributor all I did was
> add some bolt-ons. I am going to try the distributor today what the heck
> it can't hurt anything I guess but I just don't get it.
>
> Duke's
> Fine 69
> F-100
> 302
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

At 12:06 PM 3/22/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I am new to the list, and I wish to thank Mr. Payne and co. for their time
>in giving us this forum to discuss our trucks needs and strengths, and to my
>fellow list members who take the time to share their knowledge and experience.
- -snip-

No apology needed. Informed debate helps spread knowledge.
Funny thing, Ford was criticized for not changing things,
ie, the Model T and A and several other early vehicles.
Then Ford takes the lead, makes revolutionary verses
evolutionary changes and the Chevy guys criticize Ford for
the changes.

Oh well, dogs will always bark at the moon even if it doesn't
make sense.

At 12:14 PM 3/22/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Chris said;
>>Do you/we have any guidelines for just how technical we want to get here?
>
>I am very interested in this thread, but I understand that others may not
>be. While I may never build an engine that actually pushes the boundaries
>we are talking about I still like to know "how things work" and there are
>several people here who are capable of teaching the subject.
>
>Ken maybe it's time to think about starting that performance oriented list
>that you were talking about??
>
>later,
>dale c
>

Something is in the works. I have a few other promises to keep
first, such as getting the free web space working...

im new to this forum so i apologize in advance for any inconveniences. i
have a 1966 f100 ranger the truck was stolen in the 70s but when
recovered the door plate had been taken off.
does anyone know how to decode the vin or a web site that can help me
decode it. i must break down the vin in order to get a new plate also i
would like to know the different codes for auto and man trans, dso,
trim, different axle ratio codes etc. also would like to know the
production numbers of 66 f100s with the ranger bucket seat console
option. thanks derek hall

Ken,
I put a J.C. Whitney front swaybar on my 68 F100 2wd (360).
On my way to work I used to go around an on-ramp about as
fast as I could (provided no one was in my way of course).
Without the swaybar I could only go about 41 mph before the
truck started getting scary. The body roll was very noticeable,
and quite disconcerting. After I put the swaybar on, I could hit
55 mph going around the same onramp. The front swaybar was
one of the best things I did for the truck.
Someone had mentioned Hellwig swaybars. I don't recall them
being available for my F100, but the 'cheap' JC Whitney has held
up fine and I'm pleased with the results.

I am wondering if FE Motors changed the mounting holes on the lower
pullley from 3 bolts to 4 bolts in 70 and later motors like the small
block Fords did???Thats one easy way to tell if your small block is
earlier than 70 it will have only 3 mounting bolts.....Would like
to know since my FE motor has 3 bolts
- --
Joe
Aka. Fordguy
1968 F-100 4x4 302 Np435 Bone Stock down to the wheel covers
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://web.p3.net/~shoman

From: Brian
>Ok list.
> Here's one for ya. I know that an old starter or bad one can
>be hard starting when it gets hot, But, I've got a rebuilt one(which
>could be bad) that doesn't want to start my 460 when the engine gets
hot
>, normal operating temp. 192 degrees. So here's my question, Has anyone
>tried wrapping the starter with a header type heat wrap ?? And do the
>heat sheilds really work ??

I wrapped my starter and it does keep it cooler. I used an aluminum
tape a friend gave me. It's used in air conditioning ducts. I don't
think it would work on a problem like you have. I did it to improve
longevity. The problems you've described I have found are caused by a
bad starter, bad battery, bad battery cables and or bad ground. I have
read that adding engine ground straps have helped with problems like
yours.
If you have a discount battery or auto electric place around you,
they can check that stuff for you. I found this small place by me and
the guy saved me a ton of time and money by finding I had a bad starter.
The small places seem to be setup for and are willing to test for
problems. Large auto shops do more R&R to find electrical problems.

> I really don't feel that the starter is getting that hot though, I've
>removed a large portion of the inner fenders to allow better cooling of
>the engine compartment, I was also wondering if the starter solenoid
>could cause this problem ??

It maybe the problem. I have had better luck with positive
engagement starters than with solenoid actuated starters. If you can
switch types I think I would switch. The relay up on the wheel well is
away from the heat from the exhaust and seem to last longer. I have
fixed starter solenoids in the past (there's not much to them) so you
can take it apart and check it out.

>
>"True Dual Plugs" have little or nothing to do with the electricals
>behind them. A coil per plug performs no better most of the time than
>a single coil for 8 or 16 plugs.
>
>Multiple sources of ignition vs. a single source virtually always >work
better than a single source. Never seen an exception (but there >might
be). And generally work MUCH better.
>

Um, so which is it? First you said that multi coil ignition doesn't work
and better then you said it does? Am I just reading this wrong? If a
multi coil system doesn't work any better you had better start writtine
letters to the major atuo makers. They would be glad to hear this do
they can stop wasting their money on these new systems.

Or are you saying a multi source is the dua plugs? if so, I agree that
two plugs should be better than one. But how much better. The article
made it sould like a miricle.

>
>Since multiple plugs enhance the efficiency of combustion, the result
>is an improvement in torque, horsepower and mileage without Weird
>Science. The 460 has a very large diameter bore, which means it
>chamber will burn slower than a smaller bore. This implies that
>multiple plugs will improve its performance much more than a smaller
>bore 4 cylinder. Simple physics
>

All I was saying is I doubt there are any great gains to be had in a
dual plug 460. If so, I am sure Ford would have done it a long time ago.
Even so, I still doubt a 480ci engine that is built the same as a 460ci
engine (save for dual plugs) will use less fuel. Like I said, the
article siad nothing about how the engines were built. Hell, I )or
anyone else) could build a 460 and a 351 and make the 460 get better
mileage if I built them right.

With other than the dual plugs and a longer stroke, I doubt there is any
big difference. I bet the stroke makes the most differenct (at least
with the power). If they built two 460s exactaly the same and made one
of them a dual plug setup, I doubt there would be any big difference.
And then, the difference would only be on the edge of the performance.
In other words, it would be the last thing one would want to do.

Does anyone know if there are significant differences in the Dana 60's (rear)
in the F-250's through the 70's and 80's? What I'm doing is updating my 69
F-100 4x4 (Dana 60-2 rear, semi-floating axles) to the 8-lug full floating
style. There are several of these down at our local junkyard, everywhere from
75 through 85.....seems like the newer one would be best....I'll have to
measure spring seat widths and shock mount stuff. Also, mine has a Trac-Lok
(limited slip), I'm hoping it will fit into the newer housing.

After I do this, is anyone interested in a 5-lug Dana 60 rear end? They appear
to be pretty rare.....I'm not changing it because of any problems with it, but
because I updated the front end to 8-lug....

Don't get too jealous.....There's a guy here in Boulder with a 73 F-250 4x4
(76 front end) that put in a Mercury 428 Marauder....it has the "Mercury"
valve covers (I assume they are like yours) and the 428 Marauder air cleaner
markings...all stock. I didn't even know they made these

It threw me at first because the valve covers were a different shape from the
standard FE stuff....

He's using 3:50's now, but wants to switch back to the 4:10's (or something
close to this). He says the 4:10's only make an extra 200 RPM on the freeway,
but give MUCH more useable power in the mountains... What gears do you have?
He even has a spare 76 F-250 Dana 44 housing sitting here....

Oh well, not much content here, just something of interest to us FE guys and
gals.....

Colorado Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:26:18 EST
From: BDIJXS
Subject: Lift kits

In relation to my last post about the Dana 60's, I'll be installing a good
(springs only) lift kit in the rear (3").

1) Does anyone know who makes one for a 69 F-100? The kits I've seen seem to
start at 73 with the wider leaf springs.

2) I'm considering putting about a 1" to 1-1/2" spacer between the cross
member and the carrier bearing to bring the driveshaft into better
alignment....(this is a long bed with the jack shaft and main drive
shaft)....anyone done this?

O.K. here is what I've done I took a 302 from a Falcon the motor is a 71
I removed the stock 2V intake and carb. and replaced it with an
Edelbrock intake and carb.(600 cfm. electric choke) I replaced the
points with a Pertronix Ignitor I put on new cap rotor and wires also
new plugs all of which are in the correct places I hooked up the
electric choke ground wire to the body of the carb. as described in the
instructions I hooked up the hot wire for the carb. to the I side of the
starter relay. I have fire at the coil wire and at the plugs but when I
try to crank the motor all I get is fine spray of gas from the carb. and
an occasional backfire I have done nothing to the distributor other than
the aforementioned The motor cranks fine but does'nt even try to fire I
have already readjusted the floats to 7/16 and the vacuum hose is
connected to the manifold vacuum port which is the port that Edelbrock
recommends for non-emissions engines although I have tried both already.
I don't really know what else to check the coil is also new In closing I
will say that except for the intake and carb. I have tried the old parts
with no results maybe if anyone already has this set-up they could let
me know how they did it any suggestions will be greatly appreciated as
always.

Ok...I do have a new battery, new cables, I already added a heavy
ground strap, I do have the starter that uses the fire wall mounted
solenoid, but the solenoid is old. And it only does this after it has
been run for about 30 minutes non stop. Then if I let it sit for around
5 minutes ... It starts up again like there was nothing wrong. I feel
that its probably the rebuilt starter...but thought I'd see what you all
thought.

At 09:45 PM 3/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 06:34 PM 3/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>danadeb pacbell.net wrote:
>>
>>> Bill Beyer wrote:
>>> >
>>>
>>> > will miss Deacons sense of humor I can't just stand by while he
criticizes
>>> > the administration and content of this list.
>>>
>>> Where/when did he say anything about the administration???????
>>
>>Deacon had nothing but the utmost respect for the administration. It's the
>>politicians he hated ;)
>>
>>> Gas costs around $1.00 per gallon!!!!!
>>
>>Well about $1.23
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Lets move on!!!!!!
>>
>>You said it all!
>>
>>> Dana
>>
>>Don
>>
>
>Deacon was a very big "behind the scenes" person with the
>list. He kept in contact with me a lot. This explains
>why Deacon took some things personally. The lists are
>very important to him. He's just buried with so many
>things that he doesn't have the time for it right now.
>I know him well enough to say that he'll probably be
>back soon (I hope).
>
>Ken

I have a 62 f350 with dual rear wheels. The tires are a mix of 7x16 and
7.5x16. This all matches with the specs for the vehicle. My question is
that the rear tires rub - in fact, I couldn't get both wheels over the lugs
when they were fully inflated. Any clues? Is there a spacer that goes
between the wheels? I have been sworn to that the wheels are original to
the vehicle. The wheels are the 6 lug variety.
Any ideas?

>No apology needed. Informed debate helps spread knowledge.
>Funny thing, Ford was criticized for not changing things,
>ie, the Model T and A and several other early vehicles.
>Then Ford takes the lead, makes revolutionary verses
>evolutionary changes and the Chevy guys criticize Ford for
>the changes.
>
>Oh well, dogs will always bark at the moon even if it doesn't
>make sense.
>
>Ken
>

It is not only the Chevy guys. Ford comes up with a "Better Idea" and
starts using the Tarus(sp?) for the Winston Cup cars and all of the other
guys start crying foul instead of trying to improve their cars.

George Schott wrote:
>
> I replaced the
> points with a Pertronix Ignitor I put on new cap rotor and wires also
> new plugs all of which are in the correct places

Let this be a lesson for all of us!!!

Details Details Details.........

In one of your earlier posts you said you did nothing to the dist. But changing
the points to an Ignitor IS doing something to the dist. ( simply changing the
dwell on a point type dist. will change the initial timing )

It is highly likely that the Ignitor's TDC is not the same as the point's TDC.

I believe everyone has answered this, its timing, I had the same problem. I
put the distributor back in wrong (few teeth off) and the thing would not even
fire, I just keep moving it, and frankly I got lucky, Like mentioned you need
to find TDC

From: Brian
>Ok...I do have a new battery, new cables, I already added a heavy
>ground strap, I do have the starter that uses the fire wall mounted
>solenoid, but the solenoid is old. And it only does this after it has
>been run for about 30 minutes non stop. Then if I let it sit for around
>5 minutes ... It starts up again like there was nothing wrong. I feel
>that its probably the rebuilt starter...but thought I'd see what you
all
>thought.

I would say your correct in it being the rebuilt starter. The
starter relay is away from the heat and shouldn't be effected by the
engine heat as much as the starter motor would be.
It is my understanding a starter solenoid is an electromagnet used
to accurate the shift lever engaging the drive pinion along with being
an electronic relay. The one mounted to the wheel well or firewall is a
relay switch. It is called a starter solenoid at times but starter relay
differs the two systems. I believe there is a real difference between
starter solenoid and a starter relay but I'm not sure.
No one asked what the difference would be, but I thought I would
throw it in for today's "Blue Light Special". :)
Later!

From: JAMES MERLO
>I have a 62 f350 with dual rear wheels. The tires are a mix of 7x16
and
>7.5x16. This all matches with the specs for the vehicle. My question
is
>that the rear tires rub - in fact, I couldn't get both wheels over the
lugs
>when they were fully inflated. Any clues? Is there a spacer that goes
>between the wheels? I have been sworn to that the wheels are original
to
>the vehicle. The wheels are the 6 lug variety.
>Any ideas?

I just went out and looked at my next door neighbors truck (same as
yours). There is no spacer between the rims and the outer tire is a
7.5x16. there was a good size gap between the two tires. I wonder if
your rims have been mixed up! Is there a difference between inner and
outer rear rims and the front rims?
If there's is something else I can look at that would help, let me
know.
Later!

From: Joe DeLaurentis
>I am wondering if FE Motors changed the mounting holes on the lower
>pulley from 3 bolts to 4 bolts in 70 and later motors like the small
>block Fords did???Thats one easy way to tell if your small block is
>earlier than 70 it will have only 3 mounting bolts.....Would like
>to know since my FE motor has 3 bolts

My '76 FE has a three bolt pulley and my '73 302 has a four bolt pulley.
so I guess they didn't.

Ok...I do have a new battery, new cables, I already added a heavy
ground strap, I do have the starter that uses the fire wall mounted
solenoid, but the solenoid is old. And it only does this after it has
been run for about 30 minutes non stop. Then if I let it sit for around
5 minutes ... It starts up again like there was nothing wrong. I feel
that its probably the rebuilt starter...but thought I'd see what you all
thought.
=

Duke. Sorry about my previous misinformation. I thought that at one time
you had the distributor out. And forgive me if all of the following stuff=

is wrong, I'm just brainstorming. =

I'd say the problem definitely lies somewhere in the ignition. With fire
shooting out of the carb you are definitely getting gas (so I'd eliminate=

the carb for now) and spark, it's just the spark is occurring at the wron=
g
time. What is a pertronix igniter? Is it an electronic conversion? =

If it were me I'd double check all the ignition stuff. Make sure the cap =
is
wired in the correct direction of rotation and make sure the little wires=

to the coil are in their correct places. Also double check the Pertronix
and make sure it's all set proper (as per the instructions I guess--don't=

have much experience with these things). Then, while someone turns the
beast over I'd try moving the distributor back and forth (leave the clamp=

loose) and see what happens. WARNING!! Keep your head and face away from
the carb just in case fire shoots out---a cheap haircut is what this is
called, and you get real tired of folks asking you where your eyebrows
went. I know from experience. =

The motor *has* to at least act like it's going to kick over somewhere in=

that range the dist. is being turned. Once you get it running you can thr=
ow
a timing light on it and set it right. =

Good luck. Be patient. You'll make it work. Let us know.

Drew Beatty
1967 F100 352
1974 Maverick 302

O.K. here is what I've done I took a 302 from a Falcon the motor is a 71
I removed the stock 2V intake and carb. and replaced it with an
Edelbrock intake and carb.(600 cfm. electric choke) I replaced the
points with a Pertronix Ignitor I put on new cap rotor and wires also
new plugs all of which are in the correct places I hooked up the
electric choke ground wire to the body of the carb. as described in the
instructions I hooked up the hot wire for the carb. to the I side of the
starter relay. I have fire at the coil wire and at the plugs but when I
try to crank the motor all I get is fine spray of gas from the carb. and
an occasional backfire I have done nothing to the distributor other than
the aforementioned The motor cranks fine but does'nt even try to fire I
have already readjusted the floats to 7/16 and the vacuum hose is
connected to the manifold vacuum port which is the port that Edelbrock
recommends for non-emissions engines although I have tried both already.
I don't really know what else to check the coil is also new In closing I
will say that except for the intake and carb. I have tried the old parts
with no results maybe if anyone already has this set-up they could let
me know how they did it any suggestions will be greatly appreciated as
always.

From: Ken Payne
>FTE content, has anyone here had success with sway bars on a
>67-72 F100? Was it worth it? I've been seriously thinking about
>adding them...

Wet Bars, Sports Bars and Biker Bars, OK! But Sway Bars? Stay away
from The Blue Oyster (Police Acadamy) places like this are no place for
Ford trucks!

From: Bill
>Ken,
>I put a J.C. Whitney front swaybar on my 68 F100 2wd (360).
>On my way to work I used to go around an on-ramp about as
>fast as I could (provided no one was in my way of course). ....

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