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Theres a difference but i ask, what advantage does the video give compared to someone using binoculars to capture other teams signals? Only ones i can think of is
1. Camera captures it all while the coach that is watching might miss a few.
2. The coach using binoculars might have trouble seeing from time to time depending where the opposing signal caller is standing

The main thing is, they both have the same purpose. CAPTURE THE SIGNAL. We did it with advanced technology while other teams might not being using the method we used. Other teams could be having a coach stand there and watch, or have a coach use binoculars to get a closer look.

Cheating? I dont see how, spying is spying. Camera verse man isnt that much different. The coaches still have to decipher the signals. Illegal activity? I guess it is since it says videotaping is not allowed.

I also want to add in something about the snitch. If Mangini worked with us and saw the success ,if it made that big of an impact to begin with, then wouldnt he carry the method over to the Jets? He basically copied everything we do. But then..he rats us out. Is he honest man who cares for NFL? No..because if he was, he would of rated a long time ago when he was here or even last year before he started losing big games to us. Mangini is sick of losing and his excuse: its the videos. Its bull**** but the snitch needs to get hit and now I can definitley understand the handshake when we lost to him because hes such a shady/fake person.

Remix, it goes much deeper. Many teams use video equipment for the exact same reason. They just aren't admitting it publicly. There was no violation of common practice here, only the letter of a rule disregarded throughout the NFL. Goodell was punishing the team not for what they did, but to quiet the media circus prompted by a hypocritical and despicable organization, the Jets. Naturally, competitive enemies of the Pats chimed in to weaken our team and knock Kraft and BB down a peg or two. The Pats' dominance has created bitter, envious enemies. "Cheating" is the farthest thing from the issue here. It is a label unjustly being hung on many honest people by a despicable traitor.

Alright, I have to stand up to the crowd here. Yes, it is a technicallity that it was really only the use of the camera that was illegal. Technically, it is the same as if NE was inappropriately filmings stuff for NE's 4th edition of "3 Games to Glory".

But that is a load of crap. Don't we all hate it when people who are obviously guilty of something larger get off because of a technicallity? NE was obviously using the camera to view the calls at a later date. It isn't nearly as harmless as many fans here want to believe.

******Tangent*****************

I agree with everyone that the edge NE got was not nearly as large as people seem to think. Most are outraged to a level that would make you think that they believe NE is the only team in the league stealing signs, which is clearly incorrect.

*******Clost Tangent*************

In addition to that, NE broke a rule in an obvious manner just a few days after being told not to. They deserve to be punished and it should have been harsh. Applying this to Denver of SF is not appropriate because that was under a different regime, and this one clearly believes in punishment.

Unless everyone here can point to all your posts about how Goodell was going over the top with regard to Pacman Jones and Mike Vick and Chris Henry and.............. I just can't help but believe that you are influenced as strongly by your fandom as those who want BB suspended forever or NE removed from playoff consideration.

Said another way, I find it hard to believe that there would be nearly as much outrage over the punishment if it was Indy.

Edited to add:

If I am driving 85 mph on a road where everyone else does as well, but I happen to be the one caught in a speed trap, I am going to get a ticket. I may be pissed about it, but the fact that everyone else does it does not excuse my action or change the fact that I did something wrong.

What it does mean is that the other drivers really don't have the right to place themselves in a higher moral position just because I happened to get caught. That is where I take the biggest offense. I have no issue with being punished, I just find the level of outrage amusing.

Alright, I have to stand up to the crowd here. Yes, it is a technicallity that it was really only the use of the camera that was illegal. Technically, it is the same as if NE was inappropriately filmings stuff for NE's 4th edition of "3 Games to Glory".

But that is a load of crap. Don't we all hate it when people who are obviously guilty of something larger get off because of a technicallity? NE was obviously using the camera to view the calls at a later date. It isn't nearly as harmless as many fans here want to believe.

******Tangent*****************

I agree with everyone that the edge NE got was not nearly as large as people seem to think. Most are outraged to a level that would make you think that they believe NE is the only team in the league stealing signs, which is clearly incorrect.

*******Clost Tangent*************

In addition to that, NE broke a rule in an obvious manner just a few days after being told not to. They deserve to be punished and it should have been harsh. Applying this to Denver of SF is not appropriate because that was under a different regime, and this one clearly believes in punishment.

Unless everyone here can point to all your posts about how Goodell was going over the top with regard to Pacman Jones and Mike Vick and Chris Henry and.............. I just can't help but believe that you are influenced as strongly by your fandom as those who want BB suspended forever or NE removed from playoff consideration.

Said another way, I find it hard to believe that there would be nearly as much outrage over the punishment if it was Indy.

Edited to add:

If I am driving 85 mph on a road where everyone else does as well, but I happen to be the one caught in a speed trap, I am going to get a ticket. I may be pissed about it, but the fact that everyone else does it does not excuse my action or change the fact that I did something wrong.

What it does mean is that the other drivers really don't have the right to place themselves in a higher moral position just because I happened to get caught. That is where I take the biggest offense. I have no issue with being punished, I just find the level of outrage amusing.

Illegal activity? I guess it is since it says videotaping is not allowed.

Click to expand...

I don't want to pick on anyone in particular but come off it. "You guess" it is an illegal activity read the NFL rules below and show me the wiggle room.

'The other kids do it' doesn't fly, it was blatant, arrogant and stupid. It was done in a deliberate attempt to gain an advantage by breaking the rules. The word 'cheat' has plenty of people's panties in a bunch. Change the syntax if you like, but is pretty feeble.

Try these on for size:

Barry Bond only used a rub

Bill Clinton didn't lie

Invading iraq was a good idea

Only blind adoration could lead someone to these beliefs, hopefully the majority of people in the IBWT camp are 12 year olds. To see this many 'adults' use a sports figure as their moral compass is a little scary.

If BB were coming off a 5-11 season I doubt there would be such a delusional ground swell of support. He cheated, got caught damaged the image of his players and the organization. The punishment has been set, nothing we can do but move on. Go Pats.

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[U]NFL rules state[/U] "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." They also say all video for coaching purposes must be shot from locations "enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

That was re-emphasized in a memo sent Sept. 6 to NFL head coaches and general managers. In it, Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations, wrote:"Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

Parsing the difference between "breaking the rule" and "cheating" makes us (myself included) feel better as patriots fans, but it doesn't make a difference in the minds of the media and public. To them, the Patriots cheated and the Patriots will be regarded as cheaters for the forseeable future. When I read someone as well-respected and reasonable as William Rhodes of the Times say this morning that the team's legacy is now "tainted," I realize that we have no choice but to accept this as a reality.

We are going to have to live with this.

For the next few months, a s#!t storm of abuse will be directed our way. If you have a thin skin, I wouldn't tune into the Bengal's Monday Night Game. You can bet there will be signs and chants throughout the stands.

For the rest of the season, get used to hearing "Cheaters, Cheaters" sing-songed around NFL Stadiums, much as we used to chant "Darryl, Darryl" to Strawberry at Fenway.

Over time, it will start to quiet down. If we win this year's SB, it will quiet down a lot.

Eventually, probably sometime next season, it will become something that is mentioned occasionally.

In another year, it will be rarely mentioned.

Finally, it will recede, but it will always be there as a "footnote" to all that this great franchise has accomplished.

If I am driving 85 mph on a road where everyone else does as well, but I happen to be the one caught in a speed trap, I am going to get a ticket. I may be pissed about it, but the fact that everyone else does it does not excuse my action or change the fact that I did something wrong.

QUOTE]

This analogy doesn't take into consideration the fact that there is a potential loss to the Pats by not engaging in video taping if everyone else can. If you slow down on the highway there is no loss to you by everyone else speeding.

In addition, the speeding analogy is easier to identify guilt. that is, 85>65 therefore you get a ticket. After reading what Reiss posted quoting the rule that the pats allegedly violated and Goodell's admission that the Pats were not using the recording for the benefit of beating the Jets in last week's game, it is not clear that the Pats definitley broke a rule. At best, Goodell had to review the rule to decide if the Pats violated it before assigning a penalty. You can determine guilt in a speeding analogy with a radar gun.

If I am driving 85 mph on a road where everyone else does as well, but I happen to be the one caught in a speed trap, I am going to get a ticket. I may be pissed about it, but the fact that everyone else does it does not excuse my action or change the fact that I did something wrong.

QUOTE]

This analogy doesn't take into consideration the fact that there is a potential loss to the Pats by not engaging in video taping if everyone else can. If you slow down on the highway there is no loss to you by everyone else speeding.

In addition, the speeding analogy is easier to identify guilt. that is, 85>65 therefore you get a ticket. After reading what Reiss posted quoting the rule that the pats allegedly violated and Goodell's admission that the Pats were not using the recording for the benefit of beating the Jets in last week's game, it is not clear that the Pats definitley broke a rule. At best, Goodell had to review the rule to decide if the Pats violated it before assigning a penalty. You can determine guilt in a speeding analogy with a radar gun.

I'd rephrase that to say, "the commisioner determined that a rule was broken". The real story here isn't that the coach is a big fat cheater. it's that he didn't assess the consequences of mis-interpreting the rule adequately. Ironic, considering his usual attention to detail.

As for the doesn't matter part...i'm inclined to agree. going forward, the Pats are in one of those "is-what-it-is" situations.

If I have to read one more thread or post along these lines I'm going to barf. Man up, Pat fans. Your boy tried to cheat, he got caught, end of story. It's not up for debate.

I'm sure you won't have any trouble showing the rest of the league that you can dominate without the video surveillance. So get to it. I still respect your boys. Just stop with the whining and spinning.

If I have to read one more thread or post along these lines I'm going to barf. Man up, Pat fans. Your boy tried to cheat, he got caught, end of story. It's not up for debate.

I'm sure you won't have any trouble showing the rest of the league that you can dominate without the video surveillance. So get to it. I still respect your boys. Just stop with the whining and spinning.

Click to expand...

lol your ex boy Marty did the same in Cleveland. whatm akes u think he never did it in San Diego? exactly. gtfo troll

If I am driving 85 mph on a road where everyone else does as well, but I happen to be the one caught in a speed trap, I am going to get a ticket. I may be pissed about it, but the fact that everyone else does it does not excuse my action or change the fact that I did something wrong.

What it does mean is that the other drivers really don't have the right to place themselves in a higher moral position just because I happened to get caught. That is where I take the biggest offense. I have no issue with being punished, I just find the level of outrage amusing.

Click to expand...

Actually, Oswlek, this isn't true. In fact, if this happens, you can take it to court and win because, if you are going slower than the flow of traffic, you actually present more of a hazard and an accident involving you is more likely to occur.