The Return of Christ our Lord

Updated on October 21, 2016

Church Doctrine

There are many doctrines in the western Church sphere that hold to the “rapture” doctrine. I have come to believe since departing from the man-made system years ago that I had a lot of excess baggage that I brought with me that I had to throw away once the Spirit of Christ revealed the truth about the illusion of man-made religion. Since my departure, the fog continues to roll away and things are becoming clearer. Those who are part of the Church system consider me a fanatic, or a heretic because I no longer conform to their cookie-cutter religion, but rather contend against it.

Even though I had left spiritual Babylon, the "rapture" doctrine has been a piece of baggage that I have held on to and was fully convinced of for many years. I have soon come to realize that through the spirit of Christ our beliefs will change as we align with the truth that comes through his revelation to us. I have spent many years trying to reconcile a doctrine on my own strength by scouring Scripture trying to find “proof” verses, I was reading God's Word through an indoctrinated lens and realized that the "rapture" doctrine must be imagined into the text with preconceived notions.

Many understand and have the knowledge of the arguments for both sides of the debate, but the problem was that I could find no resolve either way because both sides were doctrines created from denominational entities as part of the Church system. The problem all along was that I was trying to solve my problem with the double minded ideologies that comes from man-made religion, rather than allowing the Spirit of Christ to lead me to the truth.

I believe that those among the Ekklesia must be fully prepared to meet with the Lord when he returns, but knowing how he will return will not be found, or taught within the Church system. Any system that is not founded on Jesus Christ will lead the masses down rabbit trails into confusion.

The Early Ekklesia died for truth because they had no doubt in their minds and their actions proved it.. They fully understood that upon Christ’s return to earth that they would be part of establishing the visible Kingdom of God.

Those within the Church system are so busily establishing their own man-made kingdoms without Jesus Christ at the helm. Their kingdoms will be destroyed when judgement comes because they have structured themselves to the patterns of Greek and Roman ideologies. The religious masses are so entrenched and indoctrinated that they are blinded to the truths that are right in front of them. They cannot see that they have conformed to the world and blinded to the truth. The blood of Christ has been replaced for the gloss of religion that is somehow meant to "cover" their sins.

Jesus Christ is coming back for those who have victorious lives. Those who live life for Jesus are the ones who are being persecuted for their lifestyle because they daily lay their lives down for him and do not conform to the world. They are not trying to escape difficulty because they already know that this is part of being a disciple involved in the work of spreading the Gospel. The mindset of escaping reality and avoiding tribulation is the mantra of the religious mind who wants to whisked away into heavenly bliss instead of fighting the battle of spreading the Gospel of Kingdom.

This article is for those who are among the Ekklesia who have abandoned the Church system and are seekers of truth and disciples of Jesus Christ. The typical “Churchian,” or “Christian” will not be able to grasp the spiritual reality of the terms and concepts in God’s Word because they too indoctrinated into westernized theology taught by the denominational salaried-to-serve on their elevated stages.

In contrast, all those who have made the effort to allow the Spirit of Christ to lead them to the truth by are likely to be open to something they probably have never considered before as long as it aligns with God's Word. The odds are that if anything has been birthed in the Church system, it is a flawed product of man.

Was it not necessary that the Christ should SUFFER THESE THINGS AND ENTER INTO HIS GLORY?” - Like 24:26

…the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the SPIRIT OF CHRIST in them was indicating when he predicted THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST AND THE SUBSEQUENT GLORIES. – Peter 1:10-11

Jesus Will Appear to His Followers

When Jesus Christ returns and appears to his followers, he is going to impart to them the same power and glory that the Father gave to him. The Early Ekklesia when they were establishing the Gospel of Grace was a small taste of this when the sign gifts were imparted to them and they performed great miracles for the unbelievers. When Jesus returns, he is going to transform us into his likeness where we will also have even greater power to establish his visible Kingdom on earth.

When Jesus Christ rose from the dead, he appeared ONLY to those who knew him without restriction in his glorified body. What is quite interesting is that there is no record of any unbelievers seeing Jesus forty days after his resurrection. When Jesus returns, it will be in the same way he left just as he appeared among his brethren after his resurrection.

“Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the SAME WAY as you saw him go into heaven.” – Acts 1:11

Satan could not touch Jesus in his glorified body, and in likewise manner he will be powerless against all who are in the presence of Jesus Christ when he returns. It is ONLY those who are citizens of the Kingdom of God that Jesus will first reveal himself to. It will not be just in in spirit, but in a tangible visible presence for all of his followers to see. The veil between the spiritual and the physical will become one and the same. Only those who are transformed and empowered upon the return of their King will be able to break the powers of evil and destroy the man-made systems of the world. The age of great miracles and signs and wonders will return in greater capacity by the resurrection power moving through the newly glorified brethren who will fill the whole earth with God’s glory.

When Jesus appeared to his followers after his resurrection, he revealed himself by stepping out of the spiritual into the physical.

And that he APPEARED to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he APPEARED to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he APPEARED to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he APPEARED also to me. – 1 Corinthians 15:5

WHEN I SAW HIM, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. – Revelation 1:17-18

But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and SAW THE GLORY OF GOD, AND JESUS STANDING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD. – Acts 7:55

And their eyes were opened, and they recognized him. And he VANISHED from their sight. -- Luke 24:31

The Veil

Jesus Christ appears to his followers by taking the veil away between the physical and spiritual realm.

Many terms in Scripture that are meant to be metaphors are wrongly aplled in a physical sense. Many believe that being “caught up in the air” when Jesus returns “coming on the clouds” are literal.

According to Scripture, the manner in which Jesus Christ appears to his followers will be by passing through spiritual into the natural realm.

The presence of Jesus Christ is with his Ekklesia in a spiritual way today, but upon his return his glorified presence will be with them in physical bodily form too. It will be a harmony of the physical and spiritual where Jesus Christ abides alongside of us in a way that we can see and feel him in face to face contact.

The Spirit of Christ is with the Ekklesia as they are his living stones who exude his spiritual presence. The great fulfillment of Christ’s return will become visible and tangible as a visible physical appearance to all his followers.

And now, little children, abide in him, so that WHEN HE APPEARS we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming. – 1 John 2:28

Jesus was granted by his Father after he was resurrected to make himself visible to his brethren. In the same manner, Jesus will be granted by his Father at the proper time to make himself visible to all who are considered his brothers and sisters to transform them from the corruptible to incorruptible as they enter into his visible presence. The veil will be lifted from our eyes and we will behold the glory of the appearance and splendour of our King.

When Jesus comes on the "clouds," it is a metaphor for his presence. It is not on water vapor, but a visible physical presence to those who follow him. Jesus Christ is the only door, or portal into the visible presence of God. It is entering the Holy of Holies where God dwells with his people.

Jesus Christ was "caught up" into the Father's glorious presence during his transfiguration and told his disciples that they would see him coming back in the same glory. The disciples were given a preview of what his return would be like.

For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were EYEWITNESSES OF HIS MAJESTY. – 2 Peter 1:16

The Work of the Kingdom

The believers in Jesus Christ do not have to leave the earth to be in the cloud of God’s presence. Wherever believers are, that is where they will see Jesus' return. No others will be able to see him except those who have entered through the narrow door. All those within the Church system who have created their own doors and pathways on their own initiatives and abilities will not see his glory until it is too late. They vainly look in the air into the upper atmosphere and gaze into the clouds, but they will not find him there. They do not understand that when Jesus returns, it will be in the presence of all his followers, not among pew-warming church members in their hierarchical system called Church.

For the Ekklesia, being “caught up” means being caught up in God's visible presence. It is not a departure by flying away into the clouds, but Jesus coming to them in visible form and releasing his power into them to establish his visible Kingdom on earth. This power will bind Satan and submit the entire world to the rule of Jesus Christ. Right now, we are called to the work of spreading the Gospel of The Kingdom, but in the next age we will have dominion and rule through the direction of Jesus Christ in our glorified bodies to do the work of establishing his visible Kingdom on earth.

The reason Jesus Christ performed miracles while he was on the earth was a small taste of what the Kingdom age will look like. The prophets of old have given us a picture of what is to come. We are not to look for a departure of being taken out of this world, but look for the visible power of God that ONLY comes through His Son. Jesus Christ who will change us in the moment we are "caught up" in his presence being resurrected into something beyond the physical into glorified manifest sons of God.

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the CLOUDS to meet the Lord in the AIR, and so we will always be with the Lord. – 1 Thessalonians 4:17

The return of Jesus Christ is about an unveiling to all those who love him and look for him. These are people who have surrendered to him and made him Lord, NOT religious men. The Ekklesia are destined to be a race of new people destined for a new world who are empowered to rule and reign for Jesus Christ as they inherit the earth.

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Comments Appreciated 33 comments

PandN- There are a few verses in the book of Matthew that most , if not all who "go to church" do not understand. Those of the Ekklesia need to be aware of Matthew 24: 14 (NKJV) which states 14 And this gospel of the Kingdom WILL be preached in all the world as a witness to ALL the nations, and THEN THE END WILL COME.

This message of the Kingdom of God must go out to all the world. But those's of man made churches do not understand this. Jesus second coming can not happen until the message has gone out to all nations (people). It is up to each individual , that once they hear it , to accept it or not. And if they accept then continue to seek. The battle between the Kingdom of darkness and the Kingdom of light has been on going since the beginning of Jesus ministry on earth. The ekklesia, as it did in the beginning, needs to continue the "work" of spreading the gospel of the Kingdom (of God) throughout the world as a witness to all nations. Jesus Christ followed the will of God which was to spread the gospel of His Kingdom. It is for this purpose and commission that the Ekklesia exists.

Great Article and God bless.

Neil Braithwaite 22 months ago

"The Rise of Man’s Church"

It was about 1500 years from the time Moses received the 10 commandments to when Jesus came on the scene declaring the “kingdom of God was at hand.” In that period of time, what had become of the truths and appointments God gave to His people through Moses? What had become of the Jewish religious system? Matthew 23 gives great insight as to what God thought of those men who sat themselves in Moses’ seat with regard to what they had done with God’s truths and appointments.

It has now been over 2000 years since Jesus laid out his indictment of the Jewish leaders and their religious system in Matthew 23 and established his ekklesia. In light of what man had done to God’s truths and appointments in 1500 years after Moses and before Jesus arrived, what are we to make of the numerous warnings and prophesies made by Jesus and his Apostles throughout the New Testament regarding the Ekklesia and the impending attacks and infiltration of it by Satan? What, in all honesty, has become of the body of Christ today?

Can christians be so naïve and/or arrogant to believe that the “church,” as it exists today, is what Jesus meant it to be?

An honest look at what has happened to the body of Christ over the last 2000 years answers that question:

• The creation and acceptance of false doctrines like the trinity and modern-day tithing

• Corporate structured organizations replacing Jesus with the government through 501(c)(3) regulations

• Spectator based buildings/venues with entertainment based worship

• Weekly one-size-fits-all sermons given by paid orators called pastors

• Hundreds of competitive denominational “church” brands and thousands of independent and nondenominational “church” brands causing divisions in the body of Christ

• Replacing the word and model of the “ekklesia” Jesus built with the word “church” to better fit a corporate model

• Separating christians into hierarchal classes of clergy and laity

• Accepting as truth many wrong translations, additions and omissions from the original Greek manuscripts

• Using those wrong translations to support false doctrines and manipulate and control the masses of christians.

I believe that God has given those who support man's church over to their depravity. I also believe those people truly believe they are doing "God's work." Unfortunately, I believe the majority of those in their positions of spiritual depravity and those who follow after them will not find their way out of Babylon. In the same way the Jews that rejected Christ continued in their religious system believing they are doing God's will.

If the blind lead the blind they all fall in the pit.

Rich kelley 22 months ago from The Ekklesia

How much more simple could it be, we will see Him the same way that He left.

If you are coming to visit me, I will come out to meet you in the driveway and then we will proceed into the house. You came to see me because you knew me, you didn't randomly select an address and show up.

He has been at my address for a while, so He will not get lost manifesting Himself in a different way. Being changed in an instant is just something He will do for us, His disciples.

Thank you for debunking false beliefs while lifting up Christ in each of us.

Rich

Rich kelley 22 months ago from The Ekklesia

Rev 14:6-7 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people-saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water."

God is not waiting on us to accomplish His purpose . As we go in the world should we share the hope that is in us, yes. Are we in charge, no. How will He use the angel to accomplish His purpose, I don't know, but it says He will.

PlanksandNails 22 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Graceinus,

You are right. In this world system, the masses want to establish their own kingdoms. Church buildings, temples, cathedrals, mosques, etc... cover the landscape throughout the world. Their message is not about the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, but about expanding and promoting their own religious agenda.

When we first seek the Kingdom of God, it only makes common sense to leave man's kingdoms. Jesus Christ can never be the Head when something is founded upon man's traditions. All that is founded on Jesus Christ is built by him, and all that is built by him will glorify his name. The Church system glorifies the own name in their own "flavors" of religion.

Most cannot see the Kingdom of God because they are blinded by their traditions and the men who pander them.

Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” - John 3:3

The greatest deception is that men see their traditional religious system as the Kingdom of God. In their blindness they cannot accept that it is an abomination in God's sight.

The natural person DOES NOT ACCEPT the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is NOT ABLE TO UNDERSTAND them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

For the word of the cross is FOLLY to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:18

The message of the Kingdom of God does not tickle the ears of the pew warmers, but we must continue to fight the fight even though many will not accept the message. This is what we have been commissioned by Jesus Christ to do. In doing so, the name of Jesus Christ is given all the glory. We have the hope of glory, but we have a lot of work to do. Unfortunately, many are not willing to labor in the harvest field, but we know by the testament of Scripture by the examples of men who were all on their own God was able to do great things through them. May we have the faith to do the same.

God Bless.

PlanksandNails 21 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Neil,

I believe that God is calling those who are willing to hear his voice out of spiritual Babylon. The religious grip is a powerful one, but God will use His Ekklesia to take the message to those who are willing to listen. In fact, He gives those more than one chance, but if the people continue in willful disobedience by refusing to acknowledge His truth, He will give them over to their desires.

It took many years for Jesus to un-indoctrinate me from the system I was a part of most of my life. Once I became a disciple of Jesus Christ, I became a pupil of him. I allowed him to renew my mind to see the truth about the religious disease that I partaking of. I have lost many hours of sleep as the war of my religious mind was wrestling the spirit of Christ, but I am so thankful that his truth has prevailed.

Unfortunately, most of the leaders in the Church system have reprobate minds and will never see the Kingdom of God because they want to be in control and in charge. Even though these people are the hardest people group to reach, if we continue to spread the message, we will hear more and more testimony of those who have abandoned the Church system because the spirit of Christ opened their eyes. Sometimes the most unlikely people wake up and see the Church system for the illusion that it is.

To open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. - Isaiah 42:7

"THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED - Luke 4:18

PlanksandNails 21 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Rich,

When our King returns we will become the most powerful people on the earth. We may seem as small as a "mustard" seed being insignificant according to the world's standard. We will one day be a part of establishing the God's Kingdom that will fill the whole earth. All the denominations, cults, sects and false religions will be choked out by God's presence. When God fully manifests in the tabernacle of His glorified people we will be used to judge the nations and teach the world the righteousness of God.

Every tribe and nation will come under Kingdom authority.

And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed. - Daniel 7:14

Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” - Revelation 11:15

graceinus 21 months ago from those of the Ekklesia

Rick- If you study the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Within these Gospels you will notice that the word Sabbath (day) is mentioned 17 times, the word love in mentioned 12 or so times, the word tithed is mentioned only once, and all 10 commandments are not mentioned at all. Of the 10 Commandments of the Old Covenant only 7 of the Commandment out of the initial 10 are mentioned in the four gospels.

What is most interesting to note is the words Kingdom of Heaven (God) is mentioned 114 times within the four gospels. That is far more times than any of the other subjects I mentioned above. So what was Jesus Christ's main focus during His ministry? It was the Kingdom of God.

When Jesus sent His disciples out to preach, as noted in Matthew 10: 5-42 Jesus told them what to preach as noted in verse 7 of Chapter 10 which was " As you go preaching, saying, THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND.

This was the commission and COMMAND that Jesus had given them to preach. And Jesus did not tell them to preach on the subjects of Love, sabbaths, tithe sand the 10 Commandments.

If you study the "Sermon of the Mount" which is all of Matthew Chapters 5-7 you will notice in this sermon that the Kingdom of Heaven(God) is mentioned 8 times. And yet no one seems to connect the dots that this Sermon is Kingdom focused. Matthew 6:33, which is part of the Sermon on the Mount, states 33 "but seek "FIRST" the KINGDOM OF GOD and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you."

There are at least 11 parables (most in the Book of Matthew Chapter 13) that start out with the following words " The Kingdom of Heaven IS LIKE" and yet no one seems to notice. Why? Because most so called christians are to busy being spoon fed false doctrine.

The message of the Kingdom was so important that Jesus Christ continued preaching the Kingdom for 40 more days after His resurrection as noted in Act 1:3 which states: 3 to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them [the disciples] during 40 days and speaking of the things pertaining to the KINGDOM OF GOD.

Yes, Rich, it is WE, the Ekklesia who will continue spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

God Bless

Rich kelley 21 months ago from The Ekklesia

Rich

In my study of the gospels I’ve noticed that many of the things mentioned in statements of faith for Institutional churches are not topics that Jesus was concerned about. The kingdom of God is THE concern of Jesus and THE topic the disciples were sent out to preach. The Apostles (a messenger, one sent out) went to their death preaching about the kingdom of God. With all the apostate churches that have sent out missionaries with messages of another Jesus and another Kingdom, I’ve often wondered How God was going to accomplish what Jesus said in Mathew 24:14, when not all in the Ekklesia are called to be apostles. The scripture in Revelations 14:6-7 fills in some of how God will accomplish what Jesus said.

Thanks

graceinus 21 months ago from those of the Ekklesia

Rich- In my opinion I see no problem with disciples of Christ today spreading the gospel of the Kingdom. God gives us the desires of our heart. Within the ekklesia there are those who will spread the gospel of the Kingdom without need of titles. I am a disciple (student) of Christ and enjoy hearing, learning and spreading the gospel of the His Kingdom. And finally I must state that the Holy Spirit plays the most important role in guiding us toward understanding the nature of the Kingdom of God.

As the saying goes, Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened.

Blessings.

Rich kelley 21 months ago from The Ekklesia

Amen

Rich kelley 21 months ago from The Ekklesia

1Pe 3:15-16 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

Neil Braithwaite 21 months ago

The 6K+ member Baptist church I used to attend does not even mention "the kingdom of God" on their website under "what we believe."

However, their first point in the list of beliefs is that they worship a "three person" god.

I could be wrong, but I would think admitting to worshiping three different gods might not be very helpful when Jesus returns. I'm not sure even God in his infinite wisdom and understanding can figure that one out. It'll sure be interesting to watch them try to explain it to the "one" God.

They do however make the message of "giving" and "supporting" their corporate entity a priority. Here is what they say:

"According to the Scriptures, Christians are obligated to contribute of their means cheerfully, regularly, systematically, proportionately, and liberally for the advancement of the Redeemer's cause on earth."

And we all know just "who" the "givers" are to make their checks out to. Not to mention the money will first be used for the "advancement" of their corporate church brand and to pay all the hirelings a "living" salary. The left-overs can then be used for that "other" advancement.

When Jesus returns, I would expect a redux of His indictment of the Jewish Scribes and Pharisees in Matthew 23 to be directed at all the hireling pulpiteers who have seated themselves above the lowly pew warmers.

graceinus 21 months ago from those of the Ekklesia

Neil- Many churches and ministries have what they refer to a "Mission Statement's." And you will NOT find " The Kingdom of God" mentioned anywhere in it. And yet they claim to follow Christ. Hummmm. As I see it, ALL churches, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, are IN the world and OF the world. The churches we see today are a business, nothing more and nothing less. In 2013 the Catholic Church received a total of 80 BILLION dollars. 30 Billion of that money was profit from investments the church made, which initially came out of donated money from the pew warmers of their church. And you see the pope living high off the hog. What a scam. And the rest of the churches out there are following in their foot steps.

It's as if the pew warmer's enjoy and embrace their own blindness.

PlanksandNails 21 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Peter wrote that every believer is a priest. Jesus Christ is the only High Priest that we ever need. The Antichrist Church system borrows from the OT model of the Levitical priesthood by establishing their own specially ordained priesthood who are hirelings considered a separate higher class of people. This is Nicolaitian doctrine that Jesus Christ HATES! Those are strong words against men who separate people according to their status among themselves.

Jesus did the opposite and chose fishermen and tax collectors to spread the message of the Kingdom. The Apostles followed his example as ALL who were filled with the Spirit of Christ could SERVE equally a brethren in the Kingdom of God.

The Scribes and Pharisees probably choked when Jesus exposed them for devouring widow's for profit. This exact thing still goes on today. Jesus will judge those for how they care for the poor and hungry.

The blind "Churchian" goats give all their money and use it for their Church building and their senior pastor's agenda. The biggest Baptist Chruch in the city where I live are doing a 6 Million dollar expansion on their already lavish facility. The senior pastor on the radio said that their Church members will be paying for it. What a waste, but Church minions are obligated to pay for the church building and salaries of the clergy. The fact is, only a small percentage is devoted to the poor and needy.

Their offerings in their idolatry don’t go to the poor and needy, but the entitled and greedy.

Michael-Milec 21 months ago

Come Lord Jesus. Amen.

graceinus 21 months ago from those of the Ekklesia

PandN- It's with great joy to see others of the ekklesia who are united in christ and God's Kingdom, who are not bound to the church of men.

God bless all of you.

celafoe 21 months ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

Amen in like manner He will come to us , we do not go to Him. and then we will be together for eternity We will be here with Him when the heavens and earth and we become eternal.

SimplyI 21 months ago from Ontario, Canada

"When Jesus Christ rose from the dead, he appeared ONLY to those who knew him without restriction in his glorified body. What is quite interesting is that there is no record of any unbelievers seeing Jesus forty days after his resurrection. When Jesus returns, it will be in the same way he left just as he appeared among his brethren after his resurrection."

But...

Revelation 1:6-7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and EVERY EYE (!!!!) shall see him, and they also which pierced him (that's unbelievers I guess) : and ALL kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him."

Does EVERY EYE and ALL KNDREDS OF THE EARTH mean ALL and EVERY?

And...

"When Jesus Christ returns and appears to his followers, he is going to impart to them the same power and glory that the Father gave to him."

But

1 John 3:2 KJV

[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it DOES NOT yet appear WHAT WE SHALL BE: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be LIKE HIM; for we shall see him as he is."

I guess all these extra biblical revelations/teachings come from somewhere? But... Where?

PlanksandNails 21 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

I’m not sure what you mean by extra biblical revelations???

But you are a chosen race, a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. – 1 Peter 2:1-9

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, PRIESTS TO HIS GOD AND FATHER, to him be GLORY AND DOMINION forever and ever. Amen. – Revelation 1:5-6

Revelation 1:6 is about Jesus coming in God’s presence with his brethren to exercise dominion and authority over the earth. Those who are wailing are not part of the joy of Jesus Christ’s return for his brethren, but about Jesus coming to execute righteousness and judgement with the unveiled sons of God.

For the creation waits with eager longing for THE REVEALING of the SONS OF GOD. – Romans 8:19

It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, TO EXECUTE JUDGMENT ON ALL and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” – Jude 1:14-15

Paul states that our carnal nature fights against the Spirit, but the day will come in the age of glory when that tension between will cease. The infilling of the Holy Spirit is not the final work, but a taste of what is to come. Jesus’ followers look forward to and wait in anticipation “when He appears and we shall be like him.”

See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God’s children now, and WHAT WE WILL BE HAS NOT YET APPEARED; BUT WE KNOW THAT WHEN HE APPEARS WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. – 1 John 3:1-3

SimplyI 21 months ago from Ontario, Canada

P&N,

It just makes me wonder how you could read my comment and misunderstand all points I made even though I capitalized the main ideas. You answered in a long post, but completely off topic. In a way I understand... I quoted the Bible to contradict your bold and false statements, so you didn't have much to work with. Never mind then.

PlanksandNails 21 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

I guess you need to reread the article,

You quoted me from the article,

""When Jesus Christ rose from the dead, he appeared ONLY to those who knew him without restriction in his glorified body. What is quite interesting is that there is no record of any unbelievers seeing Jesus forty days after his resurrection. When Jesus returns, it will be in the same way he left just as he appeared among his brethren after his resurrection."

I gave you Scripture to back it up:

“Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the SAME WAY as you saw him go into heaven.” – Acts 1:11

If he comes back in the SAME WAY as attested in Scripture, not everyone will see him because ONLY his brethren saw him in his glorified body for forty days before he left them. If that is the case, in the SAME WAY he will return in God's presence (clouds) and reveal himself to his brethren and change them into their glorified bodies. When this happens the sons of God will then be revealed with Jesus Christ to the unbelieving world.

For the creation waits with eager longing for THE REVEALING of the SONS OF GOD. – Romans 8:19

In 1 John 3, I simply quoted the previous verses to your quote that shows that the world DOES NOT KNOW the children of God yet, but they (those who do not know him) will then know who God's children when they receive their glorified bodies. They will be with Jesus as every eye will see them in the presence of God.

In Revelation 1, I quoted the surrounding verses that preceded verses 6-7 that you quoted. These preceding verses speak of a Kingdom with Jesus who is the ruler of the kings of the earth with PRIESTS TO HIS GOD AND FATHER. The revealing of the sons of God will come first as Jesus will use the PRIESTS TO HIS GOD AND FATHER in establishing the visible everlasting Kingdom on the earth.

(" I quoted the Bible to contradict your bold and false statements, so you didn't have much to work with.")

I guess that depends on your perspective of the verses and timing of the events. I believe Jesus will return in the same way he left where he will will appear first among his brethren. Those who are NOT among his brethren will see him and wail when he comes to establish his visible Kingdom on earth.

("In a way I understand... I quoted the Bible to contradict your bold and false statements, so you didn't have much to work with. Never mind then.")

Well, how about you tell me in more detail what you understanding is on Jesus ' return as it pertains to the article and what your beliefs are to the contrary. By saying, "Never mind then," is a cop out as I take the accusation of making "bold and false statements" seriously without a more detailed effort on you part to clarify what you mean.

SimplyI 21 months ago from Ontario, Canada

Titus 2:13 KJV Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; …

Hmmmm... Is God the father appearing together with Jesus? Or is by chance Jesus called God here? And "great God" on top of it.

Just exactly like in Isaiah 6:9 where Jesus is called "THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER." Or was God the father born in Bethlehem and that's why he is described in such way? But is says "son is given" so I guess it's not God the Father... Could Jesus be THE great God?

How about John 1:1? "The word was with the Father and the word was God."

How about Matthew 1:23 KJV Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Again... Was the father born in Bethlehem and called God with us? Or was Jesus called "GOD with us"?

PlanksandNails 21 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

((“Titus 2:13 KJV Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; …Hmmmm... Is God the father appearing together with Jesus? Or is by chance Jesus called God here? And "great God" on top of it.”))

At the end of Titus 2:10 in the preceding verse, we see God the Father is identified as "our Savior," but take notice of what Paul says in verse 13. He says we are awaiting the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. The passage does not say we are waiting for our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, but says we are waiting for the "GLORY OF" our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. And that is just what Jesus is, he is the glory of our great God and Savior, the glory of the Father. This is confirmed in Matthew.

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the GLORY of his Father... - Matthew 16:27.

((“Just exactly like in Isaiah 6:9 where Jesus is called "THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER." Or was God the father born in Bethlehem and that's why he is described in such way? But is says "son is given" so I guess it's not God the Father... Could Jesus be THE great God?”))

I believe you mean Isaiah 9:6 rather than 6:9.

In Isaiah 9:6, preceding the verses you quoted, Isaiah said, "A child will be born, a son will be given." It is quite clear that he is referring to the birth of a human child.

((“How about John 1:1?” “The word was with the Father and the word was God."))

The Word was qualitatively God the Father at John 1:1c. The Word, which the Father spoke to create all things was inherent within him in such a way that his own Word WAS Him. There is only one God and the Word was inherent within Him as John indicates the Word was WITH God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. – John 1:14

The Word, which was with God in the beginning was the inherent quality of Him. Jesus qualitatively expresses the character of who and what the Father is, he being the Father's Word. God is Light; His Word is Light. God is Truth; His Word is Truth. God is Life; His Word is Life. God is Love; His Word is Love. The Word, which was inherent within the Father went out on the breath of God’s mouth and became flesh. God is Love and His Word of Truth to us is the Light and Life of His Love and that Word became embodied in flesh as the man Jesus Christ.

As for Matthew 1:23,

The idea of God being "with" someone in a functional sense is a common expression in the Scriptures. For example, for God to be with Israel meant He was with them in plan and purpose as opposed to being against them.

Behold, God is WITH US at our head, and his priests with their battle trumpets to sound the call to battle against you. - 2 Chronicles 13:12

We are told God was "with" Israel, but no one should assume it means Yahweh was occupying their common space.

God was with Israel in a functional sense rather than spatial one. The God of Israel was with His people in plan and purpose by giving them a son from the House of David, His son, to redeem them from their sins.

Jesus Christ came to reveal the plan and purpose of the Father. The Father came to the earth through Jesus Christ in plan and purpose in a functional sense to save His people through His Son.

Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father ABIDING IN ME does His works. - John 14:10

In the same manner, it would be false to presume that the Father was abiding in Jesus in a spatial sense, but in a functional sense abiding in him.

Michael Milec 21 months ago

Good morning, planksandnails.

This is an edifying talk. (Why don't you do more often of them?) HalleluYAH. The "world" is hungry fo God and His righteousness, The sinners are realizing that they with their carnal ming can come only as close as comprehend intellectually as far as a soul-man can get it. The spiritual things are in the realm of the spirit- man, the living spirit of God which is allowing the children of the Heavenly Father communicate with Him in spirit and truth, helping us to know that in this world the most we wil " see" the God-Father wil be seen in the body of man of the Galilie. The future is being said, , we will see " him " ...well- as for now we are looking for that blessed "Day " ...

Rich kelley 21 months ago from The Ekklesia

These statements are not directed at anyone in particular but for general knowledge. Very often when I read John 1 :1-14, I can become confused with the nature of the man Jesus Christ. This confusion is from all the teachings I've received from the institutional church. Adding to the problem is the translating of the fourth gospel. There are many out there and the translators by and large believe in the trinity doctrine. If a word could go one way or the other the support of the man made doctrine is chosen. There are many more scriptures that speak of God as the father, and Jesus as the Son than there are the uncertain scriptures that you can read a man made doctrine into.

William Tyndale was burned at the stake for not translating the scriptures into English and following the "support man made doctrine when you do" path. Bellow is a copy of His translation of John 1:1-14. After reading his translation, I am no longer torn between different parts of God's word, and what the institutional church wants to perpetuate.

John Chapter 1 (William Tyndale Bible)

1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God.

2 The same was in the beginnynge with God.

3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.

4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

5 and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was Iohn.

7 The same cam as a witnes to beare witnes of the lyght that all men through him myght

beleve.

8 He was not that lyght: but to beare witnes of the lyght.

9 That was a true lyght which lyghteth all men that come into the worlde.

10 He was in ye worlde and the worlde was made by him: and yet the worlde knewe him

not.

11 He cam amonge his (awne) and his awne receaved him not.

12 But as meny as receaved him to them he gave power to be the sonnes of God in yt

they beleved on his name:

13 which were borne not of bloude nor of the will of the flesshe nor yet of the will of man:

but of God.

14 And the worde was made flesshe and dwelt amonge vs and we sawe the glory of it as

the glory of the only begotten sonne of ye father which worde was full of grace and verite.

SimplyI 21 months ago from Ontario, Canada

P&N

Acts 13:9-10 KJV

[10]... O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? …

With this rethorical question I leave the site forever. Until the books are opened and these words are brought to your remembrance.

SimplyI 21 months ago from Ontario, Canada

I am sorry, P&N,

Asking forgiveness for my strong reaction.

PlanksandNails 21 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Michael-Milec,

Good morning to you.

Thank-you for your comment. We anticipate the the day of the return of our Savior when we enter into glory. I am glad you find it an edifying subject and I believe it is an important subject to discuss. I am looking and anticipating that blessed day, and my hope is that others will too. I believe that those those who seek first the Kingdom of God will understand more fully the nature of Christ's return. The shackles of the Church system have blinded many who seek after man-made kingdoms instead, and for this reason their understanding of Scripture is a distortion of the truth. They have not allowed the spirit of Christ to lead them, but men who have elevated themselves in the place of Christ.

PlanksandNails 21 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Rich,

Thanks for the quote and adding to the discussion.

"In the beginnynge was the worde, and the worde was with God, and the worde was god. The same was in the beginnynge with god. All thinges were made BY IT, and WITHOUT IT, was made nothinge that was made. In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men, and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not" (William Tyndale, The New Testament, 1534).

As you know "worde" is not capitalized. It is easy to see that the translator did not use logos as an actual person because it was an IT. It was the Catholics that changed IT to HIM in their translation and then on to the KJV. The word logos appears 330 times in the NT in the Greek and it is always translated as an IT.

When a Trinitarian quotes John 1:1 as a "proof" verse that Jesus is God, reply to them with this,

If I said to you "Go get my hat, it's over there with my cat. My hat is my cat." You would say "Stop talking nonsense. Your hat cannot be with your cat and be your cat".

The indoctrinated Trinitarian will look at you confused as their indoctrination is really a bizarre, confusing, or nonsensical doctrine as follows,

"In the beginning was God the Son, Jesus. God the Son, Jesus was with God (the other two persons, God the Holy Spirit and God the Father, Yahweh) in the beginning. God the Son , Jesus was God (the Holy Spirit and God the Father, Yahweh). All thing were made by God the Son, Jesus (who is actually God the Holy Spirit and God the Father, Yahweh, because even though they are three persons, they are only one God). The Son of God Jesus was in the beginning with himself. All things were created by God the Son, Jesus who was with himself, God the Holy Spirit and God the Father, Yahweh - one being' with one essence, and no distinction between persons, that is three persons, but really only one person, and not three manifestations of God, three coequal persons in one being who loves himself perfectly as a family of one, but three, but not three.

I don't know about you, but I threw out my indoctrinated lenses a long time ago and don't plan on reading God's Word with those blinders ever again.

PlanksandNails 21 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

(("I am sorry, P&N, Asking forgiveness for my strong reaction."))

I forgive you.

Stargrrl 21 months ago

I confess I have not read the comments to this hub, but read the hub itself and I am in agreement with it. Jesus is Lord! Amen!