The PA Report has confirmation from Microsoft Game Studios that Halo 4 is not coming to the PC, which isn't too surprising considering Halo 3 was never ported to the PC either. What's a little odd is the explanation, as a spokesperson tells them: "Halo 4 was designed specifically for Xbox 360, and while we’re always exploring new ways to expand the franchise and share the Halo experience with as many fans as possible, we do not currently have any plans to port Halo 4 to PC."

Prez wrote on Nov 12, 2012, 14:18:Oh for the love of... REALLY? When have you known me to play the victim? My whole point was that I can't be too terribly bothered by someone's opinion when I'm too busy enjoying the games everyone else is busy nitpicking to death, not "Whoa is me - no one loves me!"

Fair enough. It just seems like you have this image in your head that everyone who doesn't share your opinion on a health system is sitting around growling, never doing any gaming or deriving any enjoyment from the hobby

I can still enjoy a game and think it has flaws. Criticism is fine and often leads to improvements. Just because someone is posting about it on a forum doesn't mean they suddenly hate all games and are just being nitpicky etc etc. I can even enjoy the hell out of a game and think losing regen health would be an improvement

Sometimes a shitty save system or a poor health implementation can be a detriment to gameplay and sometimes a good game could be a great game if they would tweak some things.

Oh for the love of... REALLY? When have you known me to play the victim? I mean what I said - I'd hate to recommend a game to you that you end up buying and then not liking it. I would rather you not listen to me because you know our tastes are different than me be the cause of you wasting money on a game you don't like. My whole point was that I can't be too terribly bothered by someone's opinion when I'm too busy enjoying the games everyone else is busy nitpicking to death, not "Whoa is me - no one loves me!"

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” - Mahatma Gandhi

Eh I think you're hitting the whole "people hate me because I think different" drum a bit too hard Prez and I don't think it really applies here. Most people have given you rational explanations why they think X health system is good rooted in gameplay mechanics instead of simply falling back to personal preference or subjective enjoyment.

I think there is a place for both but I also think health items (should) apply to a much larger percentage of them and that regenerating health gets forced into many games instead. The reasons why have already been covered in detail so *shrug*.

L4D Expert would like to have a word with your lack of tension. Talk about a game where regenerating health would clearly ruin the atmosphere entirely...I don't think it's a situation where it's "ruining tension" but not creating any "tension" at all in the first place.

Indeed, a great example. L4D Expert is about as tense as it gets and regenerating health would ruin that experience. That's not to say that there isn't a place for both ease and tension but its alot harder to create tension with regen systems.

Think of it this way Prez... Are there any games that you've played that you think would be greatly improved by replacing it's own system with regenerating health?

I don't think of health systems at all; they are invisible to me until people bring them up. Despite its obvious limitations due to being developed to run on inferior hardware, I thought Halo was a fantastic experience without really considering the health system at all, at least at first. I care about the gameplay and immersion, and really don't pay attention to things like save systems and health systems unless they become a detriment to my enjoyment. Later on I considered it thoroughtly when people kept bringing it up, but that only served to make me admire Halo more.

Since I've already lost my PC gamer cred anyway for daring to speak blasphemously by liking regenerating health systems, I guess I have nothing to lose by saying that I found the regenerating shields/medpack health system of Halo to be FAR superior to any FPS health system previous to it. I can't help that everyone else seems to think of it as the end of gaming as we know it; not only do I not dislike it, I actually prefer it. So cross me off your list of people to take game recommendations from I guess and add me to the list of people helping add to the downfall of gaming. All I know is that I am enjoying be a gamer immensely these days; everything else just fades into the background.

This comment was edited on Nov 11, 2012, 15:50.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” - Mahatma Gandhi

All of this talk about regenerating health "ruining tension" is just nonsense to me.

L4D Expert would like to have a word with your lack of tension. Talk about a game where regenerating health would clearly ruin the atmosphere entirely... I don't think it's a situation where it's "ruining tension" but not creating any "tension" at all in the first place.

Think of it this way Prez... Are there any games that you've played that you think would be greatly improved by replacing it's own system with regenerating health?

I can't think of one.

I actually can't think of any game that HAS regenerating health that wouldn't be greatly improved by replacing it with health packs, be they on the ground or in hand.

Abusing quicksave in your boss fights is your own personal problem. I see no fun in playing a game with a "perfect playthrough". You must play and live with some of the consequences of your bad play. Regenerating health basically removes the consequence of screwing up badly in any area of the game. Some here have said that replaying areas you basically DID WRONG isn't fun. UH... why are you even playing the game then? Do you expect it to be easy?

I don't see any challenge in a game with no consequences, and I see no fun in a game with no rewards.

Regenerating health also removes one of the rewards a player can receive through exploring the world. It turns the game into shooter on rails, because there is nothing to search the environment for.

Claiming that regenerating health doesn't remove "strategy or challenge" makes absolutely NO sense. Staying alive throughout an entire area is supposed to be the challenge, not "can you kill these 2 guys? Good. Here's full health. Can you kill these 3 guys? Good. Here's full health".

Regening health is nothing but easymode... So... There is a simple solution to the problem.

Only allow regenerating health on the easiest difficulty level.

Then if you choose to play the game on EASY, you can do so... and then anyone else that doesn't want to be hand-held through the entire game can choose to play on a tougher difficulty.

It's a matter of consequence, and it is of NO SURPRISE whatsoever that the majority of people "enjoy" less of it. I just find that incredibly sad, because the challenge should be where the enjoyment comes from. Otherwise I may as well watch a movie.

I think you've posted more about it than anyone else here so I don't know where you're getting hysteria from.

It's an ongoing thing. This thread is just one of many on the subject, and it has basically been blown way the hell out of proportion. I read it on virtually every gaming website I go to - Regenerating Health was put in for the unsophisticated console kiddies, it is proof of the end of mature gaming, it means the developers are lazy... I'm all for calling out developers and publishers for foisting bullshit onto gamers but I can't get on board with the complaining about the health thing. If my posting too much bothers you I guess I'll stop. Don't want to piss off anyone else needlessly!

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” - Mahatma Gandhi

Prez wrote on Nov 9, 2012, 23:00:But the level of over-the-top hysteria surrounding what is essentially a minor change is ridiculous.

I think you've posted more about it than anyone else here so I don't know where you're getting hysteria from. I get your argument about preference but difficulty levels are a more effective way of ensuring everyone gets to play the game they want. Regenerating health is almost always lazy, bandaid design. Maybe in a perfect gaming industry they would actually balance around regenerating health appropriately but we all know game development is often chaotic and rushed out the door so often its just the fastest approach to gold certification. I don't think having a traditional health system means shutting anyone out either, regen systems have their own set of quirks and problems just the same.

Regenerating health (never seen regenerating ammo, outside of Borderlands, which has requires you to make a sacrifice to get) doesn't diminish challenge. It doesn't diminish threat or urgency. When your screen is flashing, everything is blinking, you still get that need to perform. People act like any time your health is low you can just hide - it often doesn't work like that because, if you're near a place to hide, you aren't near a firefight. If you're in a firefight there's nowhere to hide.

Eh? In 99% of shooters I've played, there is always cover available during firefights. This is pretty much mandatory for any game that uses regenerating health (except Tribes Ascend). In BL2, there is always cover around.

And that's basically the root of the problem. If there's cover nearby and I know I can completely regenerate my health as often as I want, I really don't care about getting hit unless I'm on the verge of death. Take the following scenario which is often found in shooters:

1) I enter a room and there are two enemies on the other side.2) I take cover.3) The enemies take turns popping out of cover and firing at me, so there's always at least one guy firing at me.

How I approach this situation is completely different based on the health system. If I have regenerating health, I will just stand up and kill whoever is exposed first. I'll take a a bunch of hits but it doesn't matter because I can just take cover and heal. I just repeat this until all enemies are dead because I can heal as many times as I want. Conversely, if I had a finite health system, I'd have to be much more strategic. I'd have to pay more attention to the AI and my surroundings and then figure out a way to flank them so I can minimize risk and create openings. Taking hits is a serious matter because it has long-term repercussions. Taking 80 damage now means I'll probably die in one hit the next time I expose myself.

Tribes is another good example of how significant the difference between finite and regenerating health systems are. In Tribes 1 and 2, you replenished health by using health kits, of which you could carry one at a time and only heal a certain amount. In Tribes: Ascend, you have regenerating health. Here are some examples of how this affects gameplay:

T1/T2 - Heavies sitting on the flag could only take so much damage before they'd have to leave the flag to heal. Leaving the flag exposed is bad so teammates had to either toss him health kits or use the repair gun on him. Finite health encouraged teamwork.

T:A - Heavies sitting on the flag only need to survive any given attack. Once the attack is over, they regenerate all their health. No teamwork necessary.

T1/T2 - Cappers disc/grenade-jump to give themselves significant momentum boosts as they approach the flag, allowing them to grab at extremely high speeds. However, when they do grab, their health is going to be low and they'll have no way of healing. This balances the risk and reward of disc/grenade-jumping.

T:A - Cappers still disc/grenade jump to gain momentum but now they can fully regenerate their health before reaching the flag. Risk is negated while reward remains intact, upsetting the balance of the mechanic.

T1/T2 - Heavies on offense plow their way into the enemy base and camp the enemy generator. This effectively cripples the other team until they can kill him. Thankfully, the heavy has no way of healing so the team can just whittle him down and kill him more quickly.

T:A - Heavies can still camp generators except now they completely heal after every attack. This makes killing them much harder and more time-consuming, leaving the base crippled for a much longer duration.

Someone below (prez?) noted the "convenience" and time-saving aspects of these features... not having to reload from messing up and what-not... to which I say you are playing the game for the wrong reasons.

Nope. I am playing the game for the same reason you are - enjoyment. I get less enjoyment out of a game if I'm constantly re-loading and re-playing entire sections of games because I ran out of health packs and and am stuck in a fail state and had to start over. I enjoy the game much more when I'm not worried about auto-saving and reloading all the time and can just enjoy the experience. Who are you or anyone else to tell me I'm doing it wrong? Should people who are inherently less skilled or don't have the reflexes that the best FPS players have be excluded from enjoying a game? To hear some of the comments here, I would almost think that many would answer "Yes."

All of this talk about regenerating health "ruining tension" is just nonsense to me. I can understand you may prefer health packs to regenerating health, and that's fine. Personal preferences always differ. But the level of over-the-top hysteria surrounding what is essentially a minor change is ridiculous.

This comment was edited on Nov 9, 2012, 23:09.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” - Mahatma Gandhi

As expressed by others, I find it somewhere between annoying and stupid that Microsoft would make a game and not release it for the PC. What the hell? Forget whether I want to play Halo 4 or not, did they forget they worked at Microsoft?

Mordecai Walfish wrote on Nov 7, 2012, 18:23:Quit trolling with this "console gamer" crap. I played FPS on PC since Wolfenstein & Catacombs3d and can still concede that Halo was a great title.

Even if it's not your preferred platform, Mr. PC Master Race, they still did alot of things right for the time and that is why they were successful.

LOL releasing older PC fps designs to generations of mouthbreathing console-trash is not advancement. Regenerating health anyone? Consoles have basically turned on cheats because console gamers just suck at video games so badly they are basically NON GAMERS. When you have to put cheats in you first person shooter there is a serious problem.

Halo 4 on Legendary is supposed to be one of the most difficult FPS games yet.

Mordecai Walfish wrote on Nov 7, 2012, 18:23:Quit trolling with this "console gamer" crap. I played FPS on PC since Wolfenstein & Catacombs3d and can still concede that Halo was a great title.

Even if it's not your preferred platform, Mr. PC Master Race, they still did alot of things right for the time and that is why they were successful.

LOL releasing older PC fps designs to generations of mouthbreathing console-trash is not advancement. Regenerating health anyone? Consoles have basically turned on cheats because console gamers just suck at video games so badly they are basically NON GAMERS. When you have to put cheats in you first person shooter there is a serious problem.