I have found that since FOSM was dispanded the skimmer officers have got more control over us and are making our life hell. Firstly they have changed are running then turned our Submarine pay which was for knowledge of the boat into what they now call a retention pay and if you put in your notice you lose half of it but still have to do the same job and lastly they have taken away our subbies on jollys. I think this to do with the fact that they were never considered for Submarines and would not of been able to complete a Perisher so they are highly jelous. Whats next? loss of dolphins, painting boats grey or Wrens on boats.

Retention pay! It's a joke mate. If it's retention pay instead of knowledge pay, you should recieve it as soon as you are drafted to a boat. It's always been knowledge pay. Otherwise, were's the insentive to qualified.

Hmm, and I thought SP (Specialist Pay) was for Recruitment [the incentive] and Retention [to keep you interested].

Hence when someone PVRs, they lose it on a graduated scale. Seems reasonable enough to me (and yes I do get SP)

Sorry can't back anyone other argument on this, if you want out fine, but why should you get the full SP? you can't say knowledge all the money that MoD has invested in you to get the knowledge is leaving out the front door.

Hmm, and I thought SP (Specialist Pay) was for Recruitment [the incentive] and Retention [to keep you interested].

Hence when someone PVRs, they lose it on a graduated scale. Seems reasonable enough to me (and yes I do get SP)

Sorry can't back anyone other argument on this, if you want out fine, but why should you get the full SP? you can't say knowledge all the money that MoD has invested in you to get the knowledge is leaving out the front door.

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Tosh! Submarine Pay was the extra to compensate for the conditions as well as the extra knowledge needed after BSQ, in the same way pilots get air pay. After you PVR you're still a submariner, you still do the job and you still have the knowledge - of course you should keep it until tje day you leave.

PVR isn't a "betrayal" of the Navy. The adage that the RN provides a job for life has long not been true and more people now see it as a launch pad to other things. However, that doesn't mean they are less commited to the job at hand or to the team.

I think this to do with the fact that they were never considered for Submarines and would not of been able to complete a Perisher so they are highly jelous..

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Most submariners I know were pinged against their will, even if they now love it. It's hardly selection when the blopke who complained the least on a course was landed with a deeply unpopular option - even if it is universally acknowledged that you sun dodgers do a pretty good job in shitty conditions.

Well, those 'skimmers' who have yet to qualify on boats are entitled to SSP(SM) [submarine pay] after completing only 4 days at sea! FOUR DAYS!
I had inspection a few months back and was told to 'stop thinking like a submariner and get some Surface routines in...'. Surface routines? Can you tell I was inspected by a Skimmer Senior Rate that hadn't been to sea in the last 5 years! What's next? DML assessing our workup?

Hmm, and I thought SP (Specialist Pay) was for Recruitment [the incentive] and Retention [to keep you interested].

Hence when someone PVRs, they lose it on a graduated scale. Seems reasonable enough to me (and yes I do get SP)

Sorry can't back anyone other argument on this, if you want out fine, but why should you get the full SP? you can't say knowledge all the money that MoD has invested in you to get the knowledge is leaving out the front door.

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Tosh! Submarine Pay was the extra to compensate for the conditions as well as the extra knowledge needed after BSQ, in the same way pilots get air pay. After you PVR you're still a submariner, you still do the job and you still have the knowledge - of course you should keep it until tje day you leave.

PVR isn't a "betrayal" of the Navy. The adage that the RN provides a job for life has long not been true and more people now see it as a launch pad to other things. However, that doesn't mean they are less commited to the job at hand or to the team.

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Meant to reply to this for ages......

Opposite of Tosh - the recruitment component of SP is the extra you talk about - doh! The Retention is the additional component I think is totally free for grabs when someone PVRs because that obviously no longer applies. You can't have it both ways.

I was "press-ganged" and after 6 years escaped to the sunny side. I was gutted to find out that because I had chosen to leave my SSP stopped with immediate effect but if I'd failed courses and boards I would have kept it on the sliding scale.

Enjoyed my time but the extra pay doesn't make up for the quality of life in skimmers.

In the mid-70's, when VALIANT was tied up at 10 wharf in Guzz, my neighbour, who was the Joss on the JUPITER, warned me that the next morning, all the frigates would be putting out their Reg staff to nail the submariners with their long shiny locks. who were passing their shiny grey war canoes.
Next morning, totally forgetting the warning, I lurched up frigate row, hungover as usual. Suddenly, I'm confronted by a two and a half, who shouts "report yourself to the Master at Arms, your hair is a dsigrace, even for a submariner, you're scruffy". To which I answered in my best Guzz accent "Tell that to your sailors, matey, I'll see my bleeding shop steward about youm."
That night, the Joss walks in the community centre, buys me the largest Woods he can find, and tells me the Jimmy was crapping himself about this stroppy dockyardie and his shop steward, while I was the ONLY one who never got pulled.
Sometimes, having a Guzz accent can be an asset....I could never have got away with it in Pompey.

What upsets general service is when a wafu tells them that he's pissed off because having being drafted to a ship it means that he will lose his Air Station Pay. Got some great bites with that one.
Just as good was after leaving I worked for BAe and spent some time working on SINS. The maintainers asked me if I was ex navy and which boats I had served in. Told them I was never a submariner, next question was ah you must have been on survey ships, they really cracked up when I told them I was an ex Wafu.
However submariners are the finest blokes in the RN, I wouldn't have changed from Wafu but.

This may come as a shock to you Billy, however us skimmers don't spend all day long dripping about how much you all get paid in the Submarine Service.

And a couple of things to note: FOSM became COMOPS who has control over skimmers and sludgemarines and whilst I agree that the lads on submarines should be given Hotels to stay in whilst alongside given the cramped conditions on SSNs, i think it is quite right that the Subs Gravy Train ceased. Afterall, you all keep telling us how rich you all are that surely you can afford your own pissing up money - which is what you all without fail frequently told us it was spent on (you didn't help yourselves)

I think the real enemies are the AFPRB and JPA. AFPRB becuase they find ways to justify taking pay away from us and JPA because I heard somewhere that is has been used to justify many changes to the way we get paid LSSB etc being one example.

For what its worth, i think SMs are very valuable assets and i wish we had more of them.

:lol: :lol: :lol: You can keep you extra pay, however to still get it whilst ashore is not quite right, the penny pinchers wiil get you soon. Just as they have for skimmers when alongside in base port.

As for complaining that someone has not been to sea for a few years, I know of plenty submariners who have not been to sea for years or are now in the surface world and they have still been paid sub pay. Sort of quashes the extra knowledge bit, mor like get you used to the money and then you are stuck :lol: :lol: