My understanding is too limited to answer. Is that what I am postulating ? :) As for the energy, it is the honey yes ? That infra-red cluster is just how I see it, my hives are airtight, the entrances are pvc pipe, they enter hive above floor, sometimes they look like moonshine still, I think those red holes in pick are what they would look like in infra-red ? how to describe that system ?

Got the hives, might need new B's :( , and finally I am forced to admit,... that I blew it completely ! :) I think I even remarked at one point about the condensation pattern and completely failed to realize the significance,(if there is any). How I didn't take a pic ? I have no excuse save.....airheadedness :) Drew, why did you build a glass hive ? :?

My understanding is too limited to answer. Is that what I am postulating ? :) As for the energy, it is the honey yes ? That infra-red cluster is just how I see it, my hives are airtight, the entrances are pvc pipe, they enter hive above floor, sometimes they look like moonshine still, I think those red holes in pick are what they would look like in infra-red ? how to describe that system ?

what is your level of knowledge in the physics heat and mass flow?

Logged

If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?

Not sufficient to describe that picture. It would have to be explained to me in laymen terms. If you draw vertical line to right of center hole,(imagining my hive), just where the green and yellow meet, condensation, Yes ? Or perhaps rather ?

p.s. In rereading posts, I think the tone is......not as I intend, perhaps because I hunt and peck ? And the ? is a pain ? Please add on my behalf in future should I omit :)p.s.s Also I think the.....manner of speech, from all these old books is creeping on me :)p.s.s.s. Occurred to me another way to ask ? I don't know what that pic is, I googled winter cluster, or if I'm seeing it wrong ? I can see my hive. Red, B's, yellow, thermocline?/thermal layer ? protecting Apis from green/blue ?

Maybe I should send you a Thermodynamics textbook for some light weekend reading. :)

There’s so many variables at play in a bee hive the odds of recognizing all the variables and modeling them correctly is way more work than making a glass bee hive and observing what happens in real life. Thermodynamic models aren’t always the most accurate way to learn things anyways. Just watch the weather report some night.

You can buy plexiglass at Home Depot or Lowes for your glass hive, but it’s not the most cost effective material. I like the polycarbonate they use for greenhouse glazing. They sell and stock that stuff at Menards which is a home improvement chain in the Midwest. Don’t know if they extend out to Maryland or not. Here I can buy a 6 mm sheet of double wall polycarbonate (4’x8’) for about $50. You should be able to make 3 or 4 hives from that.

How would you cut a glass thermopane (double pane) down to size for a bee hive? The insulation value of a double pane or triple pane window is really the air space between the panes. You can probably do better and cheaper with greenhouse polycarbonate. I know you can buy at least 6 wall stuff. The more walls, the higher the R value. The polycarb cuts fairly easily with a table saw. Just wear goggles.

However if you’re going to cover the glass hive with a foam shell, then you don’t really need the extra walls, right? Just a simple box made of plexiglass should work. Just cover that with a foam shell when done. The foam would provide the level of insulation you need (for winter in Maryland) for your thermocline and it also keeps the hive from melting when exposed to full sun.

Let’s pencil you in to complete this job by Monday, OK?

The other problem going with pure glass is it’s conductivity of heat. The pane against the bees is going to conduct heat from the top to the bottom of the hive. It might mess up your thermocline. A plastic pane really should be a better way to go.

Thinking, looking @ thermal pic, that weber grill hive might be just the thing I seek :) Gets tricky w/ the shape I guess, not insurmountable.p.s. Wonder if it could be that simple, the shape. In square Apis can't build sufficient bubble ? + heat not reflected evenly ?

My jumbos are almost square in size. I don't see why they couldn't make a heat bubble if I closed off the top entrance and used a bottom one instead. They are already quite warm even with the top vent. I might be able to fry breakfast on the inner cover if I tried to convert them to heat bubbles.

If you have enough bees, they make enough heat to keep the top of the box relatively warm no matter what the geometry I would say.

My jumbos are almost square in size. I don't see why they couldn't make a heat bubble if I closed off the top entrance and used a bottom one instead. They are already quite warm even with the top vent. I might be able to fry breakfast on the inner cover if I tried to convert them to heat bubbles.

If you have enough bees, they make enough heat to keep the top of the box relatively warm no matter what the geometry I would say.

So Bluebee the corollary: if you have less bees you should change the aspect ratio of the hive? or just keep the bee density the same?

Logged

If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?

I make no such assertion ! :) They make bubble regardless(?), but in square hive it might not reach corners for small cluster(?), thus wet corners ? + perhaps square corners reflect core heat..... inefficiently? New word of day- aspect ratio, off to google :)

If you have less bees, you have less heat being generating. If your goal is to keep any condensation off the top of the hive, then one argument would be to minimize the surface are of the top. In that case, one could argue against a square top. On the other hand, if your aspect ratio is the other extreme (narrow rectangle), you may end up with condensation at the ends of the rectangle like in all the photos I posted in the top vs bottom thread. What is the best answer? I don’t know! It’s complicated. That’s why I experiment.

My guess is a square hive would be the most efficient geometry for wintering bees since it would allow the cluster to form the best sphere. A sphere has the minimum surface area per volume enclosed and should be the most thermally efficient for the cluster.

My baby mating nucs are almost square too. That allows the small amount of bees in them to cluster in a ball shape. If I were going to invent bee keeping all over again, I might go with square hives. :)

If you have less bees, you have less heat being generating. If your goal is to keep any condensation off the top of the hive, then one argument would be to minimize the surface are of the top. In that case, one could argue against a square top. On the other hand, if your aspect ratio is the other extreme (narrow rectangle), you may end up with condensation at the ends of the rectangle like in all the photos I posted in the top vs bottom thread. What is the best answer? I don’t know! It’s complicated. That’s why I experiment.

My guess is a square hive would be the most efficient geometry for wintering bees since it would allow the cluster to form the best sphere. A sphere has the minimum surface area per volume enclosed and should be the most thermally efficient for the cluster.

My baby mating nucs are almost square too. That allows the small amount of bees in them to cluster in a ball shape. If I were going to invent bee keeping all over again, I might go with square hives. :)

tree nests have an aspect ratio of about ~7

Logged

If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?