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Well, there IS severity in crimes and usually the punishments try to match the crimes. So, there is some value in trying to discuss that.

Only if there are criminal charges; this isn't a legal thread, we aren't discussing individual state laws and associated punishment, right?

Law looks at ALL of these things as 'bad,' not as "well, it was robbery but at least it wasn't ARMED robbery." The Courthouse isn't divided into 'bad' and 'not so bad' crimes.

And in the work place, sexual harassment or discrimination is often a violation of EEO rules or a violation of policy, and it would require a victim to file a civil suit for relief. Or, the company enforces its policies (not as common as people think) and does an investigation, etc. But, it's far more common for this behavior to be so intimidating (or a potential loss of revenue) that it's hidden, kept secret, swept under the rug.

Look how many cases of sexual harassment were brought up against Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly, because there was a hostile work environment where the women weren't supported at all or just paid to shut up.

Yes, apologists applying their own criteria for the own benefit (progressives, conservatives, whatever) is just slanting the reality to match your own tribal views. This includes Republicans and President Trump, and Liberals and Al Franken.

Not just rapes, pretty much anything involving control and power. This isn't *really* just about sex. If they needed sex, they could pay for a high-priced call girl. It's about their position of power, and their ability to make women squirm, and assuming that their power is attractive, and assuming that they can get away with anything, because they are in a position of power; many of them have very little (actual) respect for women. This is a demeaning act, not a sexual one.

Charlie Rose, "I thought it was consensual." (bullshit)

Dude ... if they are WORKING with you, it can NEVER BE consensual, it's the WORK PLACE. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. Work is not a bar or a place to pick up women. IT'S WORK. Just stop. This isn't even a good EXCUSE, since that excuse is also UNETHICAL AND ILLEGAL. IT'S WORK. NOOOO.

If anything comes out of this, it will be all of these women standing up -- en masse -- for themselves, making this kind of behaviour VERY RISKY for the harassers and abusers in the future.

The Downward Spiral was pretty much written ALL ABOUT this power and seeking this power; we had a 50-page thread in here discussing "Reptile" and the power struggle, the hate/redemption factors and Eve/Serpent biblical references.

you keep insisting it’s mostly about power. They don’t go for prostitutes because prostitutes are a sure thing... there’s no uncertainty. It’s like why some people get more excitement about cheating on their partners... it’s novelty, and rule-breaking, and uncertainty... power COULD be involved... but I insist it isn’t power as the main driver in a large portion of cases

you keep insisting it’s mostly about power. They don’t go for prostitutes because prostitutes are a sure thing... there’s no uncertainty. It’s like why some people get more excitement about cheating on their partners... it’s novelty, and rule-breaking, and uncertainty... power COULD be involved... but I insist it isn’t power as the main driver in a large portion of cases

It's why "rape" is now known as "sexual assault" in nearly all jurisdictions.

They don't do this to people of equal or more power.

Cheating on a partner is NOT the same thing as doing this shit at work or sexual assault. Adultery isn't even illegal, anymore; you don't even need to cite it as a cause of divorce in most counties and states.

It's why "rape" is now known as "sexual assault" in nearly all jurisdictions.

They don't do this to people of equal or more power.

Cheating on a partner is NOT the same thing as doing this shit at work or sexual assault. Adultery isn't even illegal, anymore; you don't even need to cite it as a cause of divorce in most counties and states.

Sexual harassment really comes down to power. Whether it's Quid Pro Quo or Hostile Workplace Harassment, the perpetrator is exerting a form of power when they sexually harass. In Quid Pro Quo sexual harassment, the perpetrator is in a position of power at work and is exerting this power to get sexual favors in exchange for a workplace benefit. In Hostile workplace sexual harassment the perpetrator is deliberately making the workplace a hostile, uncomfortable environment for a coworker. This is also a power play. The perpetrator is saying I will do what I want whether it is disturbing you or not.

Stopping Harassment is also about power. Both managers and management have the power to stop sexual harassment. The power in an organization lies with managers and supervisors who have been given power within the organizational structure, so that the organization can operate effectively. This power needs to be used for business productivity and not for personal gain. This positive power can come in the form of no tolerance sexual harassment policy and from the example of individual managers.

A company's sexual harassment policy should be very specific and cover all aspects of sexual harassment. It should be signed by every employee and every employee should be thoroughly trained on appropriate behavior. They should know unequivocally what steps will will be taken if they engage in any type of sexual harassment.

Managers and supervisors can exert power over Sexual Harassment by their example. They need to take the policy seriously and never joke about it or allow behavior to occur contrary to it. The manager is the most powerful force in stopping harassment.

Whether it is Hostile Work Environment or Quid Pro Quo, harassment is about power. Make sure your organization is exerting its power for the good of the company and not for personal gain.

Yeah, this stupid excuse doesn't even hold up to the most basic scrutiny. He said...

"I always felt that I was pursuing shared feelings, even though I now realize I was mistaken."

Oh, you sincerely thought all of this was totally consensual and a-okay. So then what's up with this shit...

when Rose learned she had confided to a mutual friend about his conduct, he fired her.

Why fire someone just because she told her friend about a (supposedly) perfectly consensual, ethical, appropriate, relationship? If you're doing nothing wrong, you should have no reason to silence her, bully her, get rid of her, etc. That's the behavior of someone who is fully aware of his own wrong doing and is actively working to protect himself. His claim that he thought it was all consensual is pure bullshit.

Why fire someone just because she told her friend about a (supposedly) perfectly consensual, ethical, appropriate, relationship? If you're doing nothing wrong, you should have no reason to silence her, bully her, get rid of her, etc. That's the behavior of someone who is fully aware of his own wrong doing and is actively working to protect himself. His claim that he thought it was all consensual is pure bullshit.

he was doing something that clearly violated the policies of his employers (CBS and PBS), see this.

VI. HARASSMENT-FREE WORKPLACE ENVIRONMENT
CBS has a “zero tolerance” policy for sexual harassment or harassment based on race, color, sex, religion, national origin, ethnicity, age, marital status, sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, disability, veteran status, height, weight, genetic information, or any other basis proscribed by applicable law. Discriminatory treatment, including sexual harassment and harassment based on a person’s race, age, or other protected status, is strictly prohibited. Unlawful harassment may occur not only as a result of conduct by supervisors, but also due to conduct by directors and/or fellow employees, and, under some circumstances, conduct by customers, vendors, consultants, visitors, and independent contractors. Unlawful harassment can take place in the office or in work-related settings outside the workplace, such as during business trips, business meetings, and business-related social events. This Statement applies with equal force to conduct in all such settings.

Wow, you weren't kidding, this article is SO GOOD. I love the way she writes. I like how she doesn't really try to answer this issue with any finality, but just explores all the complexities in a really honest way.

Also, that part in the middle where she analyzes the subtext of what's happening between Woody Allen and Mariel Hemingway in Manhatten is actually kind of incredible. I feel like she perfectly captured what's going in with these older men who go after really young girls.

Tracy’s face, Mariel’s face, is made of open flat planes that recall pioneers and plains of wheat and sunshine (it’s an Idaho face, after all). Allen sees Tracy as good and pure in a way that the grown women in the film never can be. Tracy is wise, the way Allen has written her, but unlike the adults in the film she’s entirely, miraculously untroubled by neurosis.

Heidegger has this notion of dasein and vorhandensein. Dasein means conscious presence, an entity aware of its own mortality—e.g., almost every character in every Woody Allen movie ever except Tracy. Vorhandensein, on the other hand, is a being that exists in itself; it just is—like an object, or an animal. Or Tracy. She’s glorious simply by being: inert, object-like, vorhandensein. Like the great movie stars of old, she’s a face, as Isaac so famously states in his litany of reasons to go on living: “Groucho Marx and Willie Mays; those incredible apples and pears by Cézanne; the crabs at Sam Wo’s; uh, Tracy’s face.” (Watching the film for the first time in decades, I was struck by how much Isaac’s list sounded like a Facebook gratitude post.)

Allen/Isaac can get closer to that ideal world, a world that has forgotten its knowledge of death, by fucking Tracy.

Stay with me here, because you're probably going to want to take issue with some of my phrasing in the next line. It's possible that there may be one good thing to all of this....and you just have to read up this page to see it. Noticing a trend?

Guys everywhere are starting to go "WAIT, HIM TOO!?!???!" and "men are monsters" and "I'm embarrassed to be a guy".

This shows awareness. This shows that more men are starting to understand the problem that women face. Suddenly, it's easier for guys to see why #metoo exists. To get why women - yes, even smart, physically fit women - are still frequently cautious about walking anywhere alone after dark. To comprehend why women may be hesitant to believe that your honest and innocent flirting (or even just politeness) isn't something more sinister or leading to something dangerous.

Good. Guys are starting to see the scope of the problem. Now, use that knowledge. Start calling out your friends, family, colleagues, etc, when they say or do something incredibly sexist, demeaning, objectifying, and so on. Be the change. Endeavor to create an entire society in which women wouldn't even think for a second that they have to be on their guard at all times. Is it likely that such a society will ever exist? Sadly, I doubt it. But if we all start acting and behaving like it can happen, things will at least get better.

Stay with me here, because you're probably going to want to take issue with some of my phrasing in the next line. It's possible that there may be one good thing to all of this....and you just have to read up this page to see it. Noticing a trend?

Guys everywhere are starting to go "WAIT, HIM TOO!?!???!" and "men are monsters" and "I'm embarrassed to be a guy".

This shows awareness. This shows that more men are starting to understand the problem that women face. Suddenly, it's easier for guys to see why #metoo exists. To get why women - yes, even smart, physically fit women - are still frequently cautious about walking anywhere alone after dark. To comprehend why women may be hesitant to believe that your honest and innocent flirting (or even just politeness) isn't something more sinister or leading to something dangerous.

Good. Guys are starting to see the scope of the problem. Now, use that knowledge. Start calling out your friends, family, colleagues, etc, when they say or do something incredibly sexist, demeaning, objectifying, and so on. Be the change. Endeavor to create an entire society in which women wouldn't even think for a second that they have to be on their guard at all times. Is it likely that such a society will ever exist? Sadly, I doubt it. But if we all start acting and behaving like it can happen, things will at least get better.

I agree with what you said in that we are not really taking enough accountability or responsibility for the abuse going on in the workplace and in the world in general. I have relatives that were also victims of sexual abuse and it's a really dark and traumatic thing to even just be aware of. I have no idea what it's like to go through it yourself. A lot of these people are scared and don't know where to go to for help. I believe it when people say it's happened. I find that men still find it ok to violate a woman's space and body just because of the culture we perpetuate. I do have to do take more action and responsibility. I feel like a piece of shit all the time when women call me out for being a man and not doing anything, and they are right.

John Lasseter, formerly the head of animation for $DIS, has been banned from the lot in Burbank, from Emeryville, from Glendale, from all corporate locations. Per a source in corporate security @Disney, he has been - for all intents & purposes - trespassed. @sharonwaxman@TheWrap

I think im starting to realize why I have a lack of knowledge when it comes to this sort of thing and I said it before very briefly. I'm Asexual...but in a weird way.

I'm still pansexual and i'm not opposed to having a partner but I'm asexual in the way that I do not care or have any interest in sex or naked woman/men. And I feel like because I don't get any arousal from it is where I fucked up on when I was trying to prove my points a few weeks back.

I realized that Asexual people are sorta uncommon, I don't know any famous asexual people that I'm aware of. and I feel like because of the lack of interest is where all the arguing from me came from. I didn't think that people had this bad of a sex drive and I figured people had better control of it, I wasn't aware that people had this bad of a sexual problem.

It's really troubling to see that people are actually like this, they can't control their libido and act like a human being. I thought this was common sense, but I guess I have more to learn about my own sex then I thought I already did. And I hope I'm not offending anyone more than I already had in the past few weeks ago, It's not what i'm intending to, i'm just trying to understand this sort of problem.

I just really hope no one I look up to appears on this page, I might die a little

I'm glad all these gross people are getting outed daily. But at this point I am mostly glazing over every new name, simply b/c outside of the gov't people (Trump, Moore, Franken, etc), they hold no power on a societal scale and there are just too many much bigger things going on in the news. I can only focus on so much. And between the tax bill, net neutrality, Trump's racebaiting, all our foreign wars, etc., I just can't get jacked up about this as much. Keep speaking up though, absolutely.

In his office in his fucking underwear while people walk in. LMAO. What a general piece of shit to be yelling at women, firing & rehiring, making them babysit his kids, and berating them for not wearing stockings or whatever the fuck.

I'm glad all these gross people are getting outed daily. But at this point I am mostly glazing over every new name, simply b/c outside of the gov't people (Trump, Moore, Franken, etc), they hold no power on a societal scale and there are just too many much bigger things going on in the news. I can only focus on so much. And between the tax bill, net neutrality, Trump's racebaiting, all our foreign wars, etc., I just can't get jacked up about this as much. Keep speaking up though, absolutely.

I dunno, I'd say big names in the entertainment world hold a lot of real power. It's at least just as real as a politician's power, and that's why we hear people moaning when a musician, actor, or athlete voices a political opinion... like "how dare they" use their unrelated power to effect political change. Power goes both ways though, and when you use it as a celebrity to leverage the expectation of sex due to that power, it's abuse.

Sure, it directly affects my life in a meaningless way when an actor or entertainer does this sort of shit, but power's power, and institutionalized abuse is abuse

I am mostly glazing over every new name, simply b/c outside of the gov't people (Trump, Moore, Franken, etc), they hold no power on a societal scale

Are you kidding me? Being in a political office doesn't magically make you more powerful on a societal level. Yes, you have a direct hand in legislating. But guess what? Hollywood stars are NATIONAL icons who have tens of millions of fans across this country alone. These fans follow them on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. When these celebs tell you to vote for someone, it influences outcomes. When they tell you to buy shit, people buy it. It's why they get paid massive endorsement deals by corporations. Celebrities absolutely have societal power, and in many cases, much more power than most politicians. Who the fuck has ever heard of Roy Moore prior to the allegations?

You may not care about movie stars, but America as a whole does. Which means those stars have massive societal power.

To whom exactly are you referring when you say people identifying as progressive or feminist are trying to defend Franken? Hard-line Democratic Party insiders?

He is a celebrity AND a political figure, just like Trump, standing accused of multiple sexual assaults — and the media I've seen has framed it as such. Both their political parties are defending them, because that's what political parties do until there is sufficient outcry from their electorate. Please, everyone, demand that leaders in these positions step down. Set an example of how to do this.

To whom exactly are you referring when you say people identifying as progressive or feminist are trying to defend Franken? Hard-line Democratic Party insiders?

I posted one of the most egregious examples of a feminist apologist article for Franken a page or so back. But I've seen it in a lot of places. From the 36 female SNL workers to Bill Maher to random dem voters I personally know (many in a wide demographic themselves). It usually boils down to the argument the "feminist" article made about political pragmatism, or a "this is just to take the heat of Roy Moore, ignore it", or "this is being amplified by Russians, ignore it"