I think Kobe will be slowing down a bit in the upcoming years. I cannot see another 6,000 points in him. He would have to have a really good season next year. Like 2,150 points next year. Could he do it? Yes, but do I believe he will? I don't think so. Gasol will take some points and if Bynum remains healthy, he will too.

I don't think Kobe regresses like you say he will this season. People forget that early last season, he the favorite to win MVP until the finger injury. He had a whole bunch of injuries, injuries to his knees, finger, and ankle. He didn't play in the Olympics this year and rested during the offseason. Because of that, I think he will come back at full force this season and is is my second favorite to win MVP.

after looking at this and doing the math. I dont think there is any way he catches malone unles he plays until he is like 38-39 years old. BUt i do believe that he will finsh third for sure. He could average about 20 a game and retire after his contract is up and be 3rd.

no question he slows down, but unless he averages in the teens the rest of his career or gets seriously hurt, he will crack another 6000 points. You dont think he could get 20 a game for the next 4 years?

also, he dropped 30+ every game against utah, so not sure how he looked like he was slowing down in that one. He did start the OKC series bad, but finished the last 2 games very strong and scored 30+ in 11 stright games up to the second game of the finals.

also, he dropped 30+ every game against utah, so not sure how he looked like he was slowing down in that one. He did start the OKC series bad, but finished the last 2 games very strong and scored 30+ in 11 stright games up to the second game of the finals.

well, yeah if he cant play another 4 seasons until he is 35, then yeah i dont think he makes it either. But im assuming he will finish his contract. He's not slowing down to the point where i dont think he can get 20 a night and play until he is 35. Plus if he can get 25+ the next 2 seasons, that means he only has to average 15 the last 2 seasons.

he looked slow to start the playoffs. But he absolutely destroyed utah and phoneix. The boston series his numbers dropped again becasue they are a great defensive team and he had 2 really bad shooting games. BUt ask Utah when he averaged 30+ and the lakers swept them if he looked like he lost a step.

Well, cj miles hardly guarded him, wes mathews did. But did you actually see some of the shots he was hitting? I dont care the name on the opponents jersey, he was making crazy shots against both utah and phoenix. And despite the low shooting numbers, he still put up like 28 a game on boston.

Im not saying he isnt loosing a step, obvioulsy he is. But he didnt show it against utah or phoenix and kobe losing 3 steps still gets 20 a night.

Just admit you were wrong in saying he looked like he lost a step in that series.

So you want me to admit that I didn't see something? No. I'm not doing that. Your a Lakers fan so fighting over Kobe is crazy. I saw the games. NBATV were running them twice. I saw him looking as if he lost a little speed in his game and yes, he posted 32ppg on 52% but alot of those were backdown moves in the post. Other then Game 3, he did not hit a 3 all series. He was not the same on the perimeter and offense and defense. I saw a good 5 times when Matthews just beat him off the dribble and too the basket. I saw Miles do it as well.

That's funny how you did that though, thinking I was wrong because I disagreed with you.

whats funny is that you never admit you are wrong. You said he looked like he lost a step against utah but that you expected him to pick it up when he played phoenix. Excpet he played just as well against utah as he did phoenix and played the same style, so why bring up the utah series to say he was bad but say he looked good agianst phoneix? Its becasue you forgot about how he played in that utah series which is why when i brought the stats up you said "well, those stats are lying then". You dont know the stats, you dont remember who gaurded him, but yet you remember 5 exact plays where CJ miles beat him off the dribble? Yeah, okay.

You said he looked like he lost a step against utah but that you expected him to pick it up when he played phoenix. Excpet he played just as well against utah as he did phoenix and played the same style, so why bring up the utah series to say he was bad but say he looked good agianst phoneix? Its becasue you forgot about how he played in that utah series which is why when i brought the stats up you said "well, those stats are lying then". You dont know the stats, you dont remember who gaurded him, but yet you remember 5 exact plays where CJ miles beat him off the dribble? Yeah, okay.

First off, I did expect the Suns not to stop Kobe because Jason Richardson was not a good defender. Anyone can tell you that. It was a bad defensive matchup and if you don't believe go in the archives. I said it before. So your saying the Suns were playing the same defensive as Utah was? You sure? I don't ever remember saying "Exactly" but I do remember Miles beating him off the dribble. I forgot Matthews ( mainly because he left this past season).

Stats do lie. I don't expect you to agree in this sense because this conversation involves Kobe Bryant.

Kobe may have "lost a step" athletically, but his skill set is above everyone else, which balances everything out and makes him the best and the most lethal player in the NBA. Jordan's last season with the Bulls (yes another Jordan comparison) its clear that he was not the same athlete and the explosive first step wasn't there anymore, but at the age of 34 he was still the best player in the NBA, Malone may have won the MVP that year but everyone knows MJ was still the best in the league, and it was because his skill set was above everyone else' and he can rely on that to beat opponents instead of athleticism, and thats exactly what Kobe is doing right now. Thats why I appreciate Kobe's game more now, than he was a high flying scorer. And im not a Kobe fan, infact I despise the guy being a Warrior fan, but I do appreciate watching someone who has perfected his craft.

Oh and I think he will finish #3 All time scoring list just behind Malone and Kareem.

Does it really even matter if he actually does finish ahead of Jordan? Jordan's career average still would blow Kobe's out the water. AND Kobe only has played 50 games less than Jordan in his career but Jordan has about 7,000 more points than him.

wow, you make 3 striaght post becasue i left my computer? Yeah, I left becasue of you, lol. You want me to tell you times where you were wrong off the top of my head? Sure.

Ill start with this thread. FIrst you said kobe looked like he lost a step against utah. He didnt. You also said he was being guarded mostly by miles. He wasnt then you said jason richardson was a bad defensive matchup for kobe in the suns series. Except richardson didnt gaurd kobe. Hill and dudley took turns. Im begining to wonder if you even watched the lakers in the playoffs at all.

Howabout when i said the knicks couldnt trade away their 2011 pick cause they didnt have a first this year and you called me out saying they could only to later admit you meant they could switch it with someone else which is not what i was even tLking about?

How about when you said this years olympic team looks "terrrible" and suggested they could fix it by adding jason frickin thompson. Yeah that would gaurantee them gold.

This is all from the past week or so. i have heard you say many things in the past that were flat out wrong. But i post on here too much to remember every single one of them. But im sure if i had the desire to look them all up, you would have an overwhelming number of sily things you have said.

Oh yeah, how about when you said the ucla bruins would be in the final 4 last year? Even i as a die hard bruin fan knew that wasnt gonna happen. COnsidering they missed the tournament, yeah you were wrong.

Or how about when you said the cal bears will be top 25 this coming season and be the best in the pac 10? Now i know we have a while to see if that happens, but im willing to bet my bank acount they are not the number 1 team in the pac 10. I have them finishing last.

well since people are making this a kobe/ michael thing. Kobe absolutely benefits from having entered the league earlier and the fact jordan missed almost 2 full seasons of his prime. That helps from a career totals stand point. But it also hurts his averages. Had he gone to collge for 3 years to fine tune his game he would have gotten 20 a night from the get go. Also, he came in behind 2 all-star gaurds on a title contending team and had to earn his stripes. Jordan had his own team from day one. SO that also helps jordan in this whole thing.

Everyone jumps to conclusions thinking this is all about MJ vs. Kobe...it was a simple question, don't take it the wrong way Jammin Lemon, it's painfully obvious your a MJ fan, that's cool. And Kobe has lost a step, but so did MJ towards the end of his career, they just switch up there styles of play. When your a superstar HOFer, you can do that.

If by chance, Kobe can stay relatively healthy and play until he's 38-39, he could catch Malone, not sure about Kareem though...Injuries are catching up to him, but he has such a passion for the game, I see him playing well into his late thirties barring a career ending injury.

And MrKnick, Bynum can do the things he does, but he's not going to take away too much from Kobe in terms of scoring. That's a weak theory. Of course with all the players they have on the team now hinders Kobe from being the 30 ppg guy he was, but he can still comfortably average 25 a game while letting others shine as well...Also, the Jazz series he slowed down? LMAO...good one...

Another great point llperez, MJ had the opportunity to shine early in his first couple years. Kobe had to learn from the bench, had he went to college, whew! Those stats would be even bigger...It's funny how people skew the facts in MJ/Kobe debates...

I admit, I said some out there things but I could always back them up. You said I was wrong on things but I never admit them....when has anyone told me to admit them on those posts?

I did say UCLA could make it to the final four because they were underrated and had tons of talent and the NCAA looked weak. I was wrong on the UCLA part but uh, look at the #1 and #2 seeds last season and the overall talent in the tourney...it was weak.

I did say NY could move there 2011 1st rounder in a swap of picks and such. I'm pretty sure what I said was correct and what you said was correct.

Kobe did lose a step against Utah FROM WHAT I SEEN. Your a Lakers dick sucker so of course you didn't see it. I saw it. Your talking to someone with tape. I mean damn, you even admitted Kobe lost a step on THIS SAME POST.

The Olympic roster doesn't make any sense. They have too many point guards and not enough big men. Simple as that.

Other then that, can you please hop off my nuts? Your supposed to be "one of the best" on this site. Something I never believed simply because ( JUST LIKE ALOT OF PEOPLE) you only make posts about your own team. I talk all NBA.

So while you get +10 on your stuff, I'll get -10 on mine. Guess that's the way this site is now. We don't need to discuss basketball anymore. When people disagree, just hit the thumbs down button and keep it moving...

Like many other people on this thread have said, just because he's lost a step doesn't mean he's gotten worse. Just like Jordan, he's fine-tuned his game and has become a smarter scorer because he is not the elite athlete he used to be. Now that he cannot rely purely on athleticism anymore, he has improved his post game, his shooting, and his passing.

And Kobe said he doubts this will be his final contract. He said it might be, but he doubts it.

Like many other people on this thread have said, just because he's lost a step doesn't mean he's gotten worse. Just like Jordan, he's fine-tuned his game and has become a smarter scorer because he is not the elite athlete he used to be. Now that he cannot rely purely on athleticism anymore, he has improved his post game, his shooting, and his passing.

And Kobe said he doubts this will be his final contract. He said it might be, but he doubts it.

From what I saw in the Utah series: Kobe was taking a step back and slowing down in my eyes. Your talking to someone who watches alot of games. To some people, he was " Kobe!" with averaging 30 ppg a game and such

However, it wasn't the old kobe way of scoring. He had 52% from the field because he did alot of posting on 6-5 C.J. Miles and 6-5 Wes Matthews ( Who I forgot because he was a rook who left Utah this past season)

Like I said, alot of post ups and other then game 3, he did not hit 1 3 point basket. Also, he had Matthews( a rookie) and Miles guarding him.

ok ok ok ok ok.... jeezzz u guys!!! lol, kobe is gnna pass the guys 5-12... now with 1-4, it will depend on his health, and the emergence of other players (for example, bynum) kobe is still the most skilled player in the nba by FARRRR, not even close.... i dont think he will pass MJ, but there is always a chance kobe can become the nba's all time leading scorer... i think hes either the fastest to 25,000 or the youngest, which is very crucial to gettin to #1.. kareem

regardless of the argument, and messy e already pointed this out, kobe has lost some of his athletic prowess but he can still get his jumper off any time he wants. he is smart and can get to the line without getting to the rim(pump fakes and other moves). there is no way he doesnt average atleast 23ppg over the next four years, and at that rate over lets say 65 games a year(because of injury and rest) is slightly less than 6000 points which will put kobe at slightly less than jordan. he is a scorer with good size, a high iq, and the will to be better than everyone. i dont think there is any doubt that he will surpass jordan in total points(jordan will have done it in less games). if i had to guess(which is what this forum was for), i would put kobe at 8000 more points over a span of 6 years. putting him at roughly 34000 points which will be third slightly ahead of jordan but behind malone.

mrknick, i dont talk about anybody other my teams? Yeah, okay. I would love to hear anyone else on this site vouch for that opinion.

As for the knicks draft pick thing, i said they couldnt trade them. You then caled me out and said i was wrong they had picks. I never said they didnt have picks, just that they couldnt trade them, which they cant. You then backed off and started switching your argument up about how they could always flop picks and that they other tradeable assests which wasnt even somehitng that was being discussed by me. SO instead of calling me out and then realizing you were wrong, you tried to adjust your argument, thus the reason why i feel you dont ever admit you are wrong on things. That fits with this topic as well. In no way whatsoever did he look bad, slow or anything in that utah series. But im done talking about that one.

You wanna call me a lakers di.ck sucker? Lol, you getting angry now and want to go the name calling rout? I know you're young, so il let it slide. I am a laker fan. BUt i almost always post solid unbiased opinions on anything to do with basketball when i talk. Im a fan, but name me some actual bias or dic.k sucking as you call it?

The olympic roster is not great, but you also brought up how they should add dwight howard and andrew bynum. Everyone told you that those guys were invited but declined. Bynum just had surgery. And once again, instead of maning up and saying you were wrong on that, you tried to turn it around about how they should add other guys then instead of dealing with the issue directly that those 2 stars were in fact invited.

Despite this thread and this argument, i dont go around riding your nuts or trying to give you crap over everything you say. You do bring a lot to this site. But you also bring a lot of head scratching statements. You still want to tell me how jason richardson being a bad defender matters when he wasnt even the one gaurding kobe?

Jason Richardson was the main one guarding Kobe. They tried Hill in Game 1 I believe and Kobe dropped 40. Then they went Richardson/ Dudley with Hill less.

Also, the olympics topic, I asked why they didn't and I didn't know the process. I also wrote a disclaimer ON THE TOP saying i wasn't really following the process and saw the scrimmages and games. I also said that they should have added many different players and some show push to tryout. I believe I mentioned Marvin Williams, Jason Thompson, Andrey Blatche ( going off the top)

Also- I believe I said, I don't know the process so how does that make me wrong? Also, I said should have and said if I was them and had to replace, these are the players who I would replace. How does that make me wrong.

It's hard to predict how many points he would finish with because it all depends on how much he plays each year. I'll be optimistic and say that he will play in about 75-77 games. If he averages at least 25 ppg and play that many games, that would put him in the 6th spot I believe by next year. If he can stay healthy (play at least 70 games each year) for the next 3-4 years, that will be about 24-27ppg right there which will be around 1700-2000 something points each year, and he will at least be in the 4th spot. Regardless of how many games he plays, I can't ever see him averaging in the teens unless he dramatically falls off from an injury(s) or something. The so-called emergence Bynum won't really effect Kobe's game that much. It is what is for Bynum right now. Bynum is always going to play hurt, and that is if or whenever he plays. Kobe has played with a big man who scored more than Bynum ever has and Kobe still got his. Gasol is going to be Gasol. I don't see the scoring from him changing that much either. So pretty much, I'd have to say he'll get the 4th spot at least.

yeah the way i see the math. He is 6,502 behind jordan. Now lets say he played 82 games a year for the next 4 years and averaged 20ppg each season. That would put him at 6,480 points leaving him exactly 22 points short of jordan. Now obviously its not likely at all he plays all 82 games. BUt its also not likely at all that he averages just 20 a game for the next 4 years. I think he will get about 25-28 for the next 2 years. Then maybe the 3rd and 4th year be around 22-24 points. SO even if he misses a bunch of games, if he got those numbers, he would finish easily ahead of Jordan.

To me Kobe is already a top 5 lock all time on the scoring list, he could easily pass Jordan if he does not miss many games due to injury, he has atleast 5 years left in him to score over 20 ppg, I do not care if he has lost a step or not, athleticism can only take you so far in the game of basketball and though he is no longer the Kobe who won the dunk contest or the one in the Shaq era he is still in my eyes the best player we have in our game, his skill, work ethic, passion and love for the game lead to all of his success he has had his whole career, his skill level at this stage in his career is tremendous and he is adding to it every year, I am not sure Kobe could pass Malone or Kareem on the all time scoring list due to the fact big man can last longer in the NBA especially when you are an exceptional talent like them but Kobe with a couple more seasons like he has been having and he will easily crack the top 3 in scoring.

I remember DNYCE saying an easy championship for the Lakers after they won Game 1 versus the C's and how perez called him out because of that silly thread... So yeah, perez is a Lakers fan but he also has that respect for other teams... And he was right, the Lakers didn't win that one easily, they fought with blood and sweat just to get by Boston...

With that said, let me point out the fact that it's scaring me if Kobe breaks MJ's record but one thing I considered was the averages both these guys have... Kobe is going to socre more points but will hurt his averages by going to the NBA early... MJ hurt his chances of being the second leading scorer or even breaking Kareem's record when he retired for 18 months and then missing 3 more years before coming back to Washington... Still, I am happy for both these guys for being the best of the best... I am not a Kobe fan but I slowly am starting to accept what his career will be and I slowly accept the fact that he'll be a top 3 SG of all time...