Is Hal Lindsey’s proof for a pretrib rapture “100 proof” – that is, 100 percent Biblical?
In “The Late Great Planet Earth” (p. 143) Lindsey gives his “chief reason” for pretrib: “If the Rapture took place at the same time as the second coming, there would be no mortals left who would be believers” – that is, no believers still alive who could enter the millennium and repopulate the earth.
We don’t know if Lindsey’s amnesia is voluntary or involuntary, but earlier (p. 54), while focusing on chapters 12 through 14 of Zechariah, Lindsey sees “a remnant of Jews in Jerusalem” who are mortals who will become believing mortals at the second coming and then become repopulating mortals!
During the same discussion of Zech. 12-14 Lindsey overlooks some of the final verses in Zech. 14. They reveal that some of the tribulation survivors “of all the nations which came against Jerusalem” will refuse to go there “to worship the King, the Lord of hosts.” Here’s what will happen to those “heathen” rebels: “upon them shall be no rain.”
So the facts about the repopulating mortals, in unbelieving as well as believing ranks, cancel out Lindsey’s “chief reason” for opposing a joint rapture/second coming – the ONLY rapture view to be found in official theology books and organized churches prior to 1830!
(See historian Dave MacPherson’s “The Rapture Plot,” the most accurate and most highly endorsed book on pretrib rapture history – available by calling 800.643.4645. Also Google “Pretrib Rapture Stealth,” “Pretrib Rapture Pride,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy” and “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty.”)
Although Hal Lindsey claims that his “Late Great” didn’t set a date for Christ’s return, many of his followers – including copycats Bill Maupin (“1981”) and Edgar Whisenant (“1988”) – did view Lindsey as a date-setter, and his later book “The 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon” (the sort of title that date-setters and their ga-ga groupies love) became another fizzle – unless we’re still living in the 1980s!
In Old Testament days false prophets were stoned to death. Today they’re just stoned!

THE BIBLE’S CLEAR TEACHING ABOUT THE TWO PHASES OF
THE RETURN OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST—-
(1) CHRIST’S RAPTURE AND (2) CHRIST’S REVELATION
Christ’s Rapture
1. Christ comes to the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
Christ’s Revelation
1. He comes to the earth (Zechariah 14:4).
Christ’s Rapture
2. He comes for His saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).
Christ’s Revelation
2. He comes with His saints (1 Thessalonians 3:13; Judges 1:14).
Christ’s Rapture
3. The Rapture is a mystery, i. e. , a truth unknown in O.T. times (1 Corinthians 15:51).
Christ’s Revelation
3. The Revelation is not a mystery; it is the subject of many O.T. prophecies (Psalm 72; Isaiah
11; Zechariah 14).
Christ’s Rapture
4. Christ’s coming for His saints is never said to be
preceded by celestial portents.
Christ’s Revelation
4. His coming with His saints will be heralded by signs in the heavens (Matthew 24:29-30).
Christ’s Rapture
5. The Rapture is presented as a time of blessing (1 Thessalonians 4:18).
Christ’s Revelation
5. The Revelation is identified with the Day of Christ (the Lord) (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12)
Christ’s Rapture
6. The Rapture is presented as a time of blessing (1 Thessalonians 4:18).
Christ’s Revelation
6. The main emphasis of the Revelation is on judgment (2 Thessalonians 2:8-12).
Christ’s Rapture
7. The Rapture takes place in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (1 Corinthians 15:52). This
strongly implies that it will not be witnessed by the world.
Christ’s Revelation
7. The Revelation will be visible world-wide (Matthew 24:27; Revelation 1:7).
Christ’s Rapture
8. The rapture seems to involve the church primarily (John 14:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58;
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).
Christ’s Revelation
8. The Revelation involves Israel primarily, then also the Gentile nations (Matthew 24:1–
25:46)
Christ’s Rapture
9. Christ comes as the Bright and Morning Star (Revelation 22:16).
Christ’s Revelation
9. He comes as the Sun of Righteousness with healing in His wings (Malachi 4:2).
Christ’s Rapture
10. The Rapture is not mentioned in the Synoptic Gospels, but is alluded to several times in
John’s Gospel.
Christ’s Revelation
10. The Revelation is characteristic in the Synoptics but hardly mentioned in John’s Gospel.
Christ’s Rapture
11. Those taken are taken for blessing (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). Those left are left for
judgment (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3).
Christ’s Revelation
11. Those taken are taken for judgment. Those left are left for blessing (Matthew 24:37-41).
Christ’s Rapture
12. No dating system is given for events preceding the Rapture.
Christ’s Revelation
12. An elaborate dating system is given for the Revelation, such as 1260 days, 42 months, 3½
years (see Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7, Daniel 12:11-12; Revelation 11:2; Rev. 12:14; Rev. 13:5).
Christ’s Rapture
13. The title “Son of Man” is never used in any of the passages dealing with the Rapture.
Christ’s Revelation
13. The revelation is spoken of as the coming of the Son of Man (Matthew 16:28; Matthew
24:27, Matthew 24:30, Matthew 24:39; Matthew 26:64; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27).
Granted then that these are two separate events, yet how do we know that they do not occur
at approximately the same time? How do we know that they are separated by an interval? Three
lines of proof can be mentioned:
1. The first is based on Daniel’s prophecy of seventy weeks (Daniel 9:25-27).
We are now living in the parenthetical Church Age, between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks.
The seventieth week is the Tribulation Period of seven years. The church is taken home to heaven
before the Tribulation Period (Romans 5:9; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation
3:10). The coming of Christ to reign takes place after the seventieth week (Daniel 9:24; Matthew 24).
2. The second line of proof for an interval of time between the Rapture and
the Manifestation is based on the structure of the book of Revelation. In the first
three chapters, the church is seen on earth. Chapters 4 through 19:10 describe the Tribulation Period
when God’s wrath will be poured out on the world that has rejected His Son. The church is never
mentioned as being on earth during this period. The church is apparently taken to heaven at the close
of chapter 3. In Revelation 19:11, Christ returns to earth to subdue His foes and to set up His
kingdom—at the close of the Tribulation Period.
3. There is a third consideration which necessitates a time interval between
Christ’s coming for the saints and His coming with the saints. At the time of the
Rapture, all believers are taken out of the world and are given their glorified bodies. Yet when Christ
returns to reign, there will be believers on earth who will not as yet have glorified bodies and who
will marry and raise children during the Millennium (Isaiah 11:6, Isaiah 11:8). Where do these
believers come from? There must be a period of time between the Rapture and the Revelation during
which they are converted.

in truth i do not believe in a pre-trib rapture but i don’t have a beef with people who do. But i think the bible is clear on the subject or the greek church and early church would have written more about it. we know jesus has a second coming if there is a pre trib rapture. does he come a second and third time. etc. the bible say she only comes twice. so if there is a pre-trib rapture he comes for the elect )rapture) then he comes to wipe out his enemies. then he comes again at the end of time.(general judgement) but the bible only talks about him coming back at his second coming. Now if i forget everything else. this shows there is no pre-trib rapture. If we look what the early church taught. they knew jesus would only come back once.Case closed.

GREAT VIDEO! If you listen to Josh Reeves “The Secret Right” vol. one on You Tube, he tells of how Tim La Haye was paid enormous sums of money by high up insiders (The Hunt Brothers, Rockefellers, etc…) to build his Pre-Trib Rapture Center near Albert Pike’s Tomb in Wash D.C. at first. SO YES! THEY HAVE A PLAN IN IT! To destroy the faith of as many Christians as they can with one big knock out blow when things don’t turn out the way they have been taught and they see their preachers being hauled off to be beheaded! Many will fall away! This teaching will help facilitate THE GREAT FALLING AWAY! (I just started listening to the video, I gotta get back to it now, but I had to throw in the thing about La Haye and “THE BIG PAY-OFF!”

the only thing i disagree with is the jesuits were actually enemies of Rome also as they were disbanded by the pope but brought back when a certain pope was imprisoned and forced to acquiesce to the jesuit demands. The war inside the church between the jesuits and the papacy has been won as such by the jesuits as we see one of their own is now pope.

Ah… right. I agree with your disagreement! Ha! Actually I was referring to the earlier time when they were first created to be the Pope’s Militia… then what you said happened afterwards just as you said it.

Isn’t that picture above next to the Bible picture C.I. Schofield? My buddy Dave Macpherson did an incredible expose on him. He was NOT a good guy in more ways than one: just bringing in the lie of pre-trib to American Christians. He became a Kansas Congressman and if I remember correctly, died owing many people in Missouri money, and during his lifetime was a member of the “Golden Lotus” Society in New York, which I think was liked to the occult… I’m not completely certain of these things, but I believe Dave talked about that. I know he investigated his whole life quite thoroughly.

I just gotta add one last thing: I remember back in the 90’s at The Prophecy Club, there was a lot of talk going around about the Jesuit Scientists who work for the Vaticaan (among the smartest in the world) –and astronomers having created a holographic imagery system in which they actually made the image of Mary appear over certain Muslim temples in Egypt. The Muslim revere Mary. I saw a picture of one example. But the main thing folks were talking about back then was the possibility of them using this holographic imagery to produce a fake “second coming of Jesus in the sky” complete with a “fake rapture” in which people would see what appeared to be Christians rising into the air to meet the Lord, and of course they wouldn’t rise, so therefore they would condemn themselves as having not been good enough to go up in the rapture with the Lord, and many would commit suicide! This was actually talked about and some proof of it was made with certain articles and research… I haven’t heard much about that lately. But Tom Horn has went to the Vaticaan Observatory in Arizona and uncovered MUCH new information. I just wonder if it is connected somehow? Do you have any information on this?

i saw the ghostly figure catholics think it was her and so do the muslims although we were hoping it would turn the muslims to become christians as the coptic christians are catholic. you know the champion of the trinity dogma was a coptic christian this was before the east west split.

Say, I realize that I “blathered out” a lot of stuff here that is “off-topic” and that could be considered very offensive to many people. If you feel you should not post some things as they could get your site in trouble, or aren’t documented well enough, please just take them down or delete them. Sorry, I get a bit “windy” having studied so much and with no outlet or very few people to talk to about it all. I won’t be offended if you need to take down any of this. Thank you for a platform to speak. I’ll try to keep it shorter and more in tune with the topic at hand…

i wouldnt worry some of the stuff people write. I never sensor anything unless its just offensive bile.if its an intelligent insult i always pass it. when i read articles sometimes the comments are the best part especially henry makow.

Actually, some have traced this false teaching to a JESUIT PRIEST named “Father Immanuel Lacunza” in 1790. Most trace it to Margaret MacDonald, a young Scottish girl that lived in 1830 who supposedly received a prophecy that Edward Irving and John Darby were influenced by, and began to teach it, and it was then picked up by Cyrus Irving Schofield and brought to America where “they heaped to themselves teachers having itching ears” and it took root fulfilling that prophecy, and “their ears were turned away from the truth to FABLES!” Perhaps Margaret had read some of this man’s writings or writings of others who had…? But Lacunza was said to be a JESUIT!!!

I had a different video and they said that exact thing cant find it though. will see if i can find it to add it on. One of the reasons the catholic church had inquisition was to root out jews who pretended to be christians aka pretend converted jews and their family descendants(who remained jews), unfortunately many of these jews who infiltrate all christian churches , muslim groups and such also became inquisitors. and rose to high prominence in the world. this is where the illuminate and the like came from. They are the TARES we do not know who is who as jesus said.

(Reply to first admin 1 above:) Right On! Right On! …and I believe their book the Quabbalah, Cabbalah, Kabbalah, (however you wish to spell it) –A BOOK ON WITCHRAFT!!! (The Zohar and Misrad or whatever it is called… and the Talmud, which the Ashkenazi, or “Eastern Jews,” some of which have no Jewish blood whatsoever, but are of a Mongol, Russian, Turkish mix) –brought up with them from the Khazar empire when Ghengis Khan came through and drove them out of the steps of Russia into the Ghetto’s of Eastern Germany and Poland, from whence they birthed through satan both the movements of Communism and Zionism through “The Communist Rabbi Moses Hess” –look that up on Wikipedia for a shocker– Moses Mordecai Levi, aka: Karl Marx sat at his feet and learned the teaching of Communism, while Theodore Hertz sat at his feet and learned Zionism: the “two poles on the battery” working together in sinc to bring forth the anti-Christ…) (sorry for the mouthful… hope you’re still with me:) ANYWAY… ahem: The disciples of Christ went one way preaching the truth, while the sons of the Pharisees went the other direction having escaped Jerusalem and General Titus’ destruction, into the synagogues of Babylon, and of course they had to have SOME excuse to give for their unbelief in Jesus, they wrote the most blasphemous of things about Jesus and His mother Mary in the original Talmud that came up into Germany as a result: Jesus was the product of an adulterous relationship Mary had with a Roman Centurion, and Joseph and her fled with their “bastard son” (their words–not mine) into Egypt where the 3 Magi or “magicians” taught Jesus the “magic” by which He was able to perform His miracles like walking on water (which David Blane and Chris Angel are trying so hard to do today) as well as healing people and all, casting out devils, etc…) Well, to make a short story even longer, Martin Luther, (who has been of late, CASTIGATED by the Zionist deceived churches of America) because he called for throwing the Jews out of Europe… –At first he WELCOMED his “Jewish brethren” into Germany and told the Christian Lutherans to “befriend” them. Later when they set up Synagogues and began to teach this blasphemous crap, LUTHER SAID TO “RUN THEM OUT OF GERMANY AND BURN DOWN THEIR SYNAGOGUES!” Now they are trying to make Luther out to be an “anti-Semite” and bad mouthing him to the American Christian Churches who are “parroting their garbage” in books and publications… But Luther and his people were absolutely SHOCKED these teachings, and that’s why he said those things! What do modern day preachers tell kids to do with their CD’s and witchcraft books? PUT THEM IN A PILE AND BURN THEM! It gets rid of the object which gets rid of the demon that uses it to deceive people with. WELL LUTHER DIDN’T SAY TO EXTERMINATE THEM! HE SAID TO “DRIVE THEM OUT OF GERMANY” and BURN DOWN their temples of deception filled with demons! –Same thing! GET RID OF WHERE THE DEMONS LIVE! Yet now in “Christian America,” Luther is degraded as an “anti-Semite” and a “Jew-Hater!” “Which of the Prophets have your fathers not killed?” “And why do you go about to kill Me?” -Jesus told them. And to this day they have not changed… only gotten worse! This is why the “strong delusion of the anti-Christ” will be brought against them and Jerusalem will be TRODDEN DOWN of the Gentiles once again soon according to Zechariah 14:1-4! “Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee! Your houses will be robbed and your women ravished! –and half the city (referred to in Revelation as “Sodom and Egypt” ) will GO FORTH INTO CAPTIVITY! (Concentration camps!) What the anti-Christ is going to do to the Jews and false Christians of America will make Hitler look like a “schoolboy!” Read Daniel 11:31 through all of chapter 12! It’s not pretty! Ezekiel 22 indicates that Israel will be “re-gathered” into her own land “TO BE BURNED IN THE FURNACE AND PURGED LIKE SILVER TO BURN OUT ALL THE DROSS!” These false pastors have Russia and her cohorts coming against Israel, and God and Israel just KICK THEIR ASS! Sorry Pastor Hagee… there’s just a few things that have to happen first! First of all, Gog and Magog and their alliance spoken of in Ezekiel 38:5,6 ARE USED AS GOD’S HAMMER OF JUDGMENT AGAINST REBELLIOUS ISRAEL! –THEN– THEN– HE DESTROYS THE HAMMER WHEN HE’S DONE USING IT TO PUNISH THOSE WHO ARE “GIVEN STRONG DELUSION BECAUSE THEY REFUSED THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH AND ACCEPTED A LIE AND ANOTHER WHO COMES IN HIS OWN NAME INSTEAD OF JESUS!” According to Jeremiah 30, the “tribulation chapter” or “time of Jacob’s trouble” Jerusalem will be almost utterly destroyed except for one building… THE TEMPLE! It will be about the only thing remaining on its foundation when all is said and done! It’s not going to be like the churches have been deceived into thinking… Russia comes against Israel and Israel wins… hands down! For the last 7 years of the 70 “weeks” (or 7 year periods) of Daniel — Israel is STILL UNDER PUNISHMENT! UNDER TRANSGRESSION! It says in Daniel 9:24-27 “70 (seven year periods) are determined upon thy people and upon thy Holy City… TO FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION AND TO MAKE AN END OF SINS, AND TO BRING IN EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND TO SEAL UP THE VISION AND PROPHECY AND TO ANOINT THE MOST HOLY!” (Jesus Christ) So for that last “WEEK” or 7 year period, THEY ARE STILL UNDER PUNISHMENT FOLKS! God is only “with them” He says, because they BEAR HIS NAME! “This do I not for your sakes oh Israel… this do I for MY OWN HOLY NAME’S SAKE!” Because they bear the name of “God’s people” He has to finally come and fight for them and drive off the great northern army! –AFTER– He is done letting the great northern army “beat the living hell out of them for 3 1/2 years!!!” –And those “governors of Judah” who go out to fight along side the Lord against Israel’s enemies… THEY ARE THOSE JEWS WHO ACCEPTED JESUS AS THEIR SAVIOR AND WERE KILLED DOWN THROUGH TIME FOR HIS SAKE WHO RULE AND REIGN AS KINGS WITH HIM FOR A THOUSAND YEARS! (Revelation 20:4-6) They are NOT the filthy perverse rulers of what is presently called “Sodom and Egypt” in the book of Revelation! THE CHURCHES ARE SO DECEIVED! Sorry once again for the big long TOME here, but there’s just so much to say, and so little space to say it all in…

yes luther did hate the jews(which the christians dont want to even think about) in fact so did probably most protestant churches, you should read walid shoebat’s article-THOSE DAMNED CATHOLICS. I am a catholic. but i do not prescribe to the modern vatican apostate church. I have studied history and all catholic teaching comes from the bible and the first century church. Protestantism for me historically doesn’t make sense is based on lies(martin luther admits he lied and was the worst interpreter of the bible in history) many of the reformers were actually secretly jews who hated the church(in the documentary we have seen how smart these people are. The catholic church has had many evil people in it. but when we look at the reformers the leaders are all 60-70% masons in the case of america 90%. We know the masons worship lucifer ala albert pike book morals and dogma. so what does this say about the reformation not much. Its not biblical is contradictory(over 200,000 churches preaching different doctrine). The only thing they agree on is the catholic church is evil when even martin Luther said all we know of the scriptures comes from the papists. the coptic christian church the greek orthodox the indian catholic,(despite it had no contact europe for 1600 years).the chinese underground church etc all teach almost the same doctrine(unlike the reformers church.) two examples. they preach man is saved by faith alone(this is contradictory of james and is not biblical). they say the catholic church teaches a faith of works .) they imply by works alone. This is false the church teaches james version of works through faith which is biblical. the bible says private interpretation leads to destruction.(which is what the catholic church teaches). there were 77(gods number) books put into the original bible. the reformers who claim the bible is the work of the holy spirit. then took books out. Contradicting their own teaching. i could give a lot of examples. the roman church did not exist in a vacuum. the protestants say it did. they believe a skewered version of history(about constantine who was an enemy of the catholic church. even though you can look up the true history on wikipedia. they dont .faced with all this evidence,, i concluded they teach a false history, believe lies ignoring biblical truths (because it would mean they have to agree with the catholics on some things). At least walid shoebat is honest. and i dont care who i offend.the truth is the truth

Oh! …and I forgot to mention… that “Star of David” on the flag of Israel? It’s not the “ensign of the Lord” that will be coming when Jesus returns! IT’S THE STAR OF THEIR GOD “CHIUN” spoken of by the prophet that they backslid into worshiping! –also known as “Ash – STAR – reth!” or Ashstaroth. In the Greek, Astarte, “THE FRIKING QUEEN OF HEAVEN” — BAAL’S WIFE! –that they were driven out of Israel for worshiping! The Rothschild’s put it on their family symbol. It was know as “the Seal of Solomon” when he backslid into witchcraft, and some Illuminati families can trace their bloodlines clear back to that time! The Jacob Astor family… comes from Ashtoreth. When the French Freemason Eiffel, who built the Eiffel Tower, built the Statue of Liberty, he said it was a gift from the French Freemasons to the Masons of New York City, and that it was a representation of THIS GODDESS! Astarte or Ashtoreth, from whence comes “Easter.” There is so much to all this, and I have incriminated myself quite enough here this morning. I shouldn’t attempt to write about this stuff after too much coffee! This is all stuff I’ve learned from books like The Unseen Hand by Ralph Epperson, Fourth Reich of the Rich by Des Griffin, as well as so many others I can’t remember them all! Nesta Webster, (who Winston Churchill quoted frequently, and surmised that the anti-Christ would arise out of the tribe of Dan…) Antony Sutton, –just so many others I can’t remember them all. God bless them for laying their lives on the line for getting out the truth. I’ll probably be killed for saying all this stuff, but somebody has to stand up for Jesus and the truth! Please pray for me; I’m prayin’ for you!

yes its strange isnt it they are always complaining about the catholic church and the virgin mary praying to saints yet the born again christians have no qualms about apostate Israel with their rothchild ashtaroth flag of solomon(which many jews who are orthodox hate because they know its not jewish). the catholic church has always said the modern jewish state was evil. Many jews say this also. the only church in the world which opposes masonry(before it was taken over at the 2nd vatican council) The bible says that the jews rejected christ and rejected salvation and they will accept another in jesus place. aka the anti-christ.Only at the end will they realise their mistake. I am not a jew hater but Paul said the jews reject salvation so he goes to the gentiles so i always wondered why should we love and support a christ hating rejecting faith.

MAKES SENSE TO ME! Weishaupt; initial leader of the Illuminati was a Jesuit. The New Pope is a Jesuit! (Petrus Romanus / Tom Horn) They have been behind everything else, or at least the high level tool of someone even higher using them. Rothschilds…? The Committee of 300? The “black nobility families” that worship Lucifer? (When he came to Jesus and offered Him “all the kingdoms of the world and the riches of them,” the Lord basically told him to “go to hell!”) (When he came to these people, they bowed down immediately and said, “YES SIR! WHEN DO WE START?” –and they’ve been in power ever since. All these groups have either been created by them or commandeered by them down through time to be used for their own purposes of ultimately: ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT UNDER THEIR “DARK PRINCE” THE ANTICHRIST! Pre-Trib rapture will turn out to be one of the devil’s greatest “sucker-punches” to the church system that he’s ever hit them with! Have you ever wondered who the people are in Matthew 24 who will come out of hiding when they are told, “He is in the desert,” or “He is in the secret chambers,” come out and meet Him! –And they come out of hiding to their deaths? IT WILL BE THE POOR DUPED CHURCH PEOPLE, 95% OF WHOM HAVE BEEN STEEPED IN THE DOCTRINE OF IMMINENCE! (The teaching that Christ can come at any time, and that there are no prophecies that need to be fulfilled before He can return! Even though the Lord gave many… including the Sun being darkened, moon not giving light, meteorite showers, and finally the darkening of the entire sky!) Even though they will see that their pastors were wrong about Jesus returning for them BEFORE the anti-Christ takes power, they will have still been so “steeped” in this false doctrine of “Imminence” and scared, tired, weak, hungry, thirsty, and sick!!! –that they will RUSH out of hiding to their deaths at the mention that “HE HAS ARRIVED!” “HE IS IN THE DESERT” “HE IS IN THE SECRET CHAMBERS!” “COME ON OUT!” HE’S RETURNED!” “HE’S HERE FOR YOU!” –What an incredibly sad day it will be for them as they have not deeply studied the Scriptures! Dear God please help them to see before it’s too late! If you read Matthew 24 deeply, you will see the modern teachings of this false doctrine and its false teachers spoken of throughout the whole chapter!