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I think you missed nearly every point I made. Yes, I should have let you just ramble about how you are a victim of my mean spirited comment. I should allow you the delusion that my chuckle somehow made you act hypocritically. But, I didn't so here we are. Your source is bunk. I don't know any self respecting atheist that sees that site as anything more than the enquirer. I am not trying to convince you about the existence of God...never have...it's a personal belief which you attacked in a football post with a source based on pure fiction. I called you on it...it hurt your feelings so here we are with you continuing to ramble about people you don't know...judging them for much of what you guilty of in these posts. If you don't get the irony of that...then so be it.

I think you missed nearly every point I made. Yes, I should have let you just ramble about how you are a victim of my mean spirited comment. I should allow you the delusion that my chuckle somehow made you act hypocritically. But, I didn't so here we are. Your source is bunk. I don't know any self respecting atheist that sees that site as anything more than the enquirer. I am not trying to convince you about the existence of God...never have...it's a personal belief which you attacked in a football post with a source based on pure fiction. I called you on it...it hurt your feelings so here we are with you continuing to ramble about people you don't know...judging them for much of what you guilty of in these posts. If you don't get the irony of that...then so be it.

I gave you several other links that showcased the similarities of the Jesus and Horus stories, not just one, but some how in your bizarre haze you keep pretending there was only one link. Should I go through the same gyrations again, so you can pretend the links don't exist again? Why not? Seeing you stick your head in the sand, in order to re-arrange reality in order to adhere to your stories, is kind of fun. Let's do it again (and you can cover your eyes and ears and run away - which you claimed to do several posts ago, but some how never fulfilled your promise of ending discussion - as those who are like minded tend to do.) By the way, what are YOUR SOURCES that prove Jesus was Son of God? I'd love to peruse your FACTs.

1.Both were conceived of a virgin.
2.Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
3.Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
4.Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph.
5.Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
6.Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
7.Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
8.Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
9.Both births were announced by angels (this si nto the same as number 7).
10.Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
11.Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men".
12.After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
13.To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to "arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
14.When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
15.Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual. Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.

1. Both were conceived of a virgin.
2. Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
3. Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
4. Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph.
5. Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
6. Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
7. Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
8. Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
9. Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
10. Both births were announced by angels (this si nto the same as number 7).
11. Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
12. Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men".
13. After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
14. To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to "arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
15. When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
16. Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
17. Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
18. Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
19. Both were baptized at age 30.
20. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
21. Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
22. Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
23. Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
24. Both have 12 disciples.
25. Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
26. Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
27. Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
28. Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Livanu (literally, "house of Anu").
29. Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.
30. Both were crucified.
31. Both were crucified next to two thieves.
32. Both were buried in a tomb.
33. Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back "three days" later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).
34. Both had their resurrection announced by women.
35. Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.
36. Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means "anointed one").
37. Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower.
38. Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).
39. Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd's crook.
40. Horus was born in Anu ("the place of bread") and Jesus was born in Livlehem ("the house of bread").
41. "The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: 'Out of Egypt have I called my son.'" (See Point 13)
42. Both were transfigured on the mount.
43. The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of "Madonna and Child."
44. Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called "Immaculate".
45. Horus says: "Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power." And Jesus says: "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once."
46. Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6CKTqC0-4M[/url]

Now, I think you should run along and stick your head in the sand, as you said you were going to do days ago. Do you even know how the Bible was put together? Do you? Oh well, roll the way you need to roll. Whatever gets you through your days.

And I gave you links as well. I did so because you refuse to do your own research. Just about everything you quoted is incorrect...easily checked and verified...other people's research and not your own. I even gave you a link where you can check from original sources...not an atheists imagination. If you checked my link, you would see why those sites are saying the same thing. They are all plagerizing the research one one man. Go back and actually read the link...but I refuse to do your research for you. If you say they are the same and you believe it great. I just want those who are curious to be able to research it out on their own. If you are at peace with your answers to life, who am I to say you should believe different.

Lloyd, may I ask why you are so angry? It's ok...it's just words on a screen...one mans opinion. Why does it bother you so much?

Do I know how the Bible was put together? Yes, as a matter of fact I do. I also understand the sociopolitical environment that effected the English translations...and how those effected current doctrines. I have been a student of the Bible since I was very young, and it continues to be one of my favorite subjects of debate and continued study. Why do you ask?

One of my big hang ups with many Christians is the idea that they're called to be "set apart" from the rest of the world to do God's work.

2 of the hangs ups that bothered me most were due to my perception of many Christians who mistook this in 2 ways:

1. By being "set apart" they were removing themselves from the world that needs help and running in their Christian circles and avoiding people that weren't like them.

2. By being "set apart" they often acted superior to others. Like they were chosen and better off for it than the rest of us.

To this day many Christians turn me off and I believe they are what turns off most people to religion and Jesus. But I finally figured out that being "set apart" does not mean "set above". It just means that they are called to do God's work in this world. They're like the good china. They have a purpose to be used on special occasions (special occasions in this case happen all the time). But they are not to be wasted on every day use or used inappropriately.

I finally came to the realization that all Christians pretty much suck at being Christians. I've gone to a lot of churches and can name a million examples of people wanting to volunteer to head the stewardship committees or any high profile lay position they can find in the church. Christians are like everyone else. They want recognition. They even pray for countless sick people, take trips to 3rd world countries to build houses for poor families, and on and on. They want to do the high profile and fun tasks.

I've invited many of those "involved" people to come to prisons with me to meet with inmates who have murdered someone. I've invited them to cook meals in homeless shelters in very bad neighborhoods. To teach English to illegal immigrants. etc. etc.

And for the most part, most people don't want to get involved where people are really desperate and really need help. They want to create an appearance of being involved without taking on too much responsibility. They want to be listed on the church directory in positions of leadership, but very few want to roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty.

On the flip side, I've met many people that don't wear their Christianity on their sleeves that will jump in and help do anything.

I'm not saying Christianity is bad or the teachings are bad at all. I tend to find Jesus more outside of churches and christian circles than inside. I tend to think it's more likely Jesus doesn't have time to run in the Christian circles anyway. He's too busy trying to help the world.

I want to go through your post in depth later Flippy. But I would agree how believers have applied Biblical principles has been faulty in some areas. Set apart is certainly one of them. Jesus mixed it up with sinners, ate with them, hung out, loved them...defended them. Are not believers to emulate their Savior?

I finally came to the realization that all Christians pretty much suck at being Christians. I've gone to a lot of churches and can name a million examples of people wanting to volunteer to head the stewardship committees or any high profile lay position they can find in the church. Christians are like everyone else. They want recognition. They even pray for countless sick people, take trips to 3rd world countries to build houses for poor families, and on and on. They want to do the high profile and fun tasks.

I've invited many of those "involved" people to come to prisons with me to meet with inmates who have murdered someone. I've invited them to cook meals in homeless shelters in very bad neighborhoods. To teach English to illegal immigrants. etc. etc.

And for the most part, most people don't want to get involved where people are really desperate and really need help. They want to create an appearance of being involved without taking on too much responsibility. They want to be listed on the church directory in positions of leadership, but very few want to roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty.

On the flip side, I've met many people that don't wear their Christianity on their sleeves that will jump in and help do anything.

I'm not saying Christianity is bad or the teachings are bad at all. I tend to find Jesus more outside of churches and christian circles than inside. I tend to think it's more likely Jesus doesn't have time to run in the Christian circles anyway. He's too busy trying to help the world.

THIS /\ /\ /\ /\ /\

Shawn asks why I am angry. I am not. But those not dealing in truth annoy me. The above is why certain people disappoint me. I had a friend who got into some pretty bad legal problems. (Actually, had more than 1). They had to serve time. Even though I was not close to them at the time they got in trouble, I had been friends in the past. I am no hero. I am no Mother Teresa, I tend to be fairly lazy - you're not going to find me helping build a church or anything along those lines. So, by no means am I claiming to be this awesome contributer. But I can tell you this: In the cases of these guys going to prison, nearly everyone, short of their direct family, bailed on them and wanted to totally disassociate themselves from them. I reached out to them, even knowing they avoided me when they are involved in these indiscretions. Not only did I speak on the phone with them during the whole process but kept in touch writing to them during their incarceration. Does that make me some great saint? No. Pretty minimum effort required. But where were all their Christian friends? No where to be found. They avoided them like AIDs, even after they got out. A complete abandonment. They didn't even want to speak of them, like even acknowledging them was a fear, like some how they could get in trouble if even speaking of them, and they certainly didn't want known as being their friends. Not ever.

It's easy to pretend you are all cool with Jesus when things are going normal. But when human beings need you most and you turn your back and run? I am sorry. Your faith is pretty flimsy, if you claim to believe in Jesus' teachings but when someone is truly in need you race away. Oh, and you want to make a giant difference with minimum effort. Reach out to someone who is really in trouble. They feel like they don't have a friend in the world, and it means the world to them. Now THAT is something that moves me. THAT is the REAL DEAL, and yet how many "Christians" will do that? It's much easier to turn in the envelope to the basket each week, where most of that $ is going to places other than helping those in need (especially the Catholic Church, they have massive, massive wealth, most of which is not truly helping those in the most need.) [url]http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/vatican_billions.htm[/url]

Which Christians are going to drug houses in downtown Detroit? Picking up prostitutes on the streets to help them get away from their pimps? Opening up their homes to mentally ill that are homeless? Going to Watts to offer to help gang members?

There's a ton of risky stuff that I'd never have the guts to do. But if Jesus were walking around the streets today, these are the places he would be hanging out. Christians or not, we all shy away from real need in the world. Real need generally goes ignored.

The stuff we're talking about here is people's unwillingness to do things that aren't even that risky. There are things with real risk. Christians that have been reborn have nothing to lose going into these risky situations. But they avoid them just like everyone else.

I'm not holding this against anyone. I don't blame anyone for fearing these scenarios. Just saying there's people really bad off that need help and Jesus wouldn't turn his back on these people like the rest of us do.

Which Christians are going to drug houses in downtown Detroit? Picking up prostitutes on the streets to help them get away from their pimps? Opening up their homes to mentally ill that are homeless? Going to Watts to offer to help gang members?

There's a ton of risky stuff that I'd never have the guts to do. But if Jesus were walking around the streets today, these are the places he would be hanging out. Christians or not, we all shy away from real need in the world. Real need generally goes ignored.

The stuff we're talking about here is people's unwillingness to do things that aren't even that risky. There are things with real risk. Christians that have been reborn have nothing to lose going into these risky situations. But they avoid them just like everyone else.

I'm not holding this against anyone. I don't blame anyone for fearing these scenarios. Just saying there's people really bad off that need help and Jesus wouldn't turn his back on these people like the rest of us do.

Most have been sold, and gladly accepted, that they are all good with God if they turn that little envelop into the church basket each week. I even know some that eagerly turn in their 10% because - and this is grand - they think God will make sure their income will keep going up if they do this. They don't even try to hide it. They believe God will keep making their income increase if they tithe the 10%. Meanwhile, most don't even know where their $ is going. Most obsess over their own kids, and might do stuff like buy a toy for "Toys for Tots" at Christmas or something.

I think we can all agree that showing love for neighbor by loving those outcasts of society is a good thing. We should all strive to do these things. I also find it sad when Christians and non Christians alike don't serve their neighbor. I still don't understand what any of it has to do with the existence of God...or the relationship of Jesus to Horus.