Saturday

THIS IS ANOTHER installment in our series, Answers to Objections. When you criticize Islamic supremacism, a very common response you'll get is something like this: "Christians do the same thing. Look at the Inquisition. Look at the Crusades. More people have been killed in the name of Christianity than all other religions combined."

A simple way to answer the objection is: "Today, more people are killed in the name of Islam every year than were killed in the entire 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition." Direct your listener to see how many people are being killed daily in the name of Islam at TheReligionOfPeace.com. Memorize that URL so you can recommend it. Write it down for them. It is a site that documents every verifiable act of jihad in the world where at least one person is killed.

Another answer is: "In the 1400-year history of Islam, 270 million people have been killed in the name of Islam. No other religion even comes close. Communism doesn't even come close. Naziism doesn't either. The reason we don't know this is that Islamic supremacists have infiltrated the textbook publishing business in America and have massively edited the history of Islam. They also heavily influence Western media."

What About The Crusades?Well, what about them? The crusades had as their principal objective making Jerusalem available for Christian pilgrims after Muslim conquerors persecuted (oppressed, killed and expelled) Christians in the Levant, and deterring further Muslim expansion after the fall and subjugation of the ancient Christian communities of Egypt, the Levant, Arabia, and Anatolia. The crusades originated in a 911-call from the Christian ruler of Byzantium, because he feared that Muslim conquerors would destroy his church, enslave his people, and conquer his land. His capitol city is now Istanbul, his principal church is now a Mosque, and his eventual sucessor probably fell in battle with the Muslims who burned his capitol and buried him in a mass grave. I guess Alexius had reason to worry.Were the crusaders anti-semitic, vicious, brutal, savage, etcetera. Of course they were. The period from 1095-1272 (Crusades I-IX) occurred during the "Dark Ages" and they are called that for a reason. The point is that EVERYONE was a savage, savagry and barbarism were normative. But, savagry and barbarism are no longer normative in much of the world, and toleration or apologia of them is undesireable. ---RondaWithoutaH's Husband

Need some answers for a NowPublic post and commentary. One person is especially vile, always thowing up the crusades, etc. He's what is called a classic 'dhimwit'. Today he put this link up, now I do know this is from a classic 'slam taqqiya site, but any advice how to answer this vileness?

Rene, see to it that you do not allow that anal orifice to dragoon you into defending Christianity. He is employing argumentum Tu quoque, a logical fallacy. "You're one, too!" is an accusation, not a defense. The intent is to distract and derail the discussion from the absolute evil of Islam.

Muslims like to take Bible verses out of context and fabricate Talmud quotes.

Unless you are an expert and or have access to original documents, it is best to avoid those distractions.

Nothing YAHWEH or his followers said or did detracts in any way with what Moe and his successors are doing in the here and now. Jews are not engaged in lapidation or decapitation, Muslims are. Jews are not attempting genocides, Muslims are.

In the New Expanded Library at http://geocities.com/crusadersarmory. you will find the references you need to expose Islam effectively and a Windows utility for linking to their sources.

Dig up the December '79 issue of Playboy and read the article about Khomeini. Why did he say a Muslim could obtain sexual pleasure from an infant? There are some nice quotes at The Prophet of Doom site, too.

Do you know what Moe was doing with Aisha before he married her, when she was only 3? Look up thighing in your favorite search engine. But don't blame me if you puke on your keyboard.

To see how I dealt with the creeps in one forum, search for Crusader's Armory + "Forum Wars".

You can search the Qur'an, Bukhari's hadith, the Bible and Bhudist scripture all at once with Ocean, which you can find with a search.

I say, yes, absolutely there was a strain of theocratic totalitarianism in Christianity.

However, what did Jesus actually say?

"My Kingdom is not of this world."

So, the Christian faith was finally reformed, and transformed into a mostly positive force in the world - no longer a monolith trying to establish a totalitarian earthly kingdom.

Unfortunately, Islam is still stuck in its "theocratic totalitarian" phase - it is running at last 500 years behind Christianity. And the really frightening thing is, it is using modern weaponry and terroristic nation-states (and Pakistan has nukes, and soon so will Iran) to accomplish its goals. So, we do not have the luxury of waiting around for it to reform. We must protect ourselves, our nations and our societies now.

To Rene - for some background, if you have not yet done so, check out the Father Boutros videos on Jihad Watch. It is awesome to see such a learned, gentle man take apart the holy books of Islam.

He just lays bare the depravity - for example, guess which virgin Mo gets in heaven? Jesus's mother.

Ben and Anonymous give some great answers. Rene, one way to answer the vileness is to refer to the present. Regardless of what it says in the Bible or Talmud, you see no Christians or Jews supporting marriage to underage girls. But right now, all over the world, you see plenty of Islamic support for marriage to underage girls.

The difference is in the finality of the Qur'an and the specific nature of its commands versus the Bible and Talmud which is a collection of writings over a period of time, and there are examples and stories, but nowhere does it say, "You must do these things, you must follow all the examples."

Unfortunately for non-Muslims, it says over seventy times in the Qur'an that a Muslim MUST follow the example of Mohammad. And he married a six-year old girl, so therefore it is right and good, and being done today all over the world.

The Talmud is partly a rabbinical debate transcript, it is not divine scripture. Muslims quote it selectively, and they quote fabrications.

The Qur'an is to be taken literally, and obeyed. Supremacism & triumphalism are immutable intrinsic attributes.

One fact recognized by few: the Qur'an contains situational scripture. Moe, being Allah's spokesman, was able to put words in his mouth.

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 311:

Narrated Aisha:

I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires." [Emphasis added.]

For more details:www.geocities.com/crusadersarmory/downloads/SituationalScripture.pdfwww.prophetofdoom.net/pdf/POD_Quran_Surah_033_The_Allies.pdfwww.prophetofdoom.net/pdf/Prophet_of_Doom_14_The_Anti-Semite.pdfsnooper.wordpress.com/2007/06/09/know-thine-enemy-6

There is a good article at:http://www.meforum.org/2159/are-judaism-and-christianity-as-violent-as-islam

He makes the point that violence in the bible was limited to a specific situation and historical period. In contrast, the Qur'an's violent verses transcend time and therefore apply yesterday and today.

I agree with what everyone has written. Possibly the best confrontational reply I have heard is that 'both muhammad and Jesus had many enemies. Muhammad killed all of his enemies, how many of his enemies did Jesus kill?'.

The "numbers" argument in the article above is flawed. You need to take the argument of "Christianity is just as bad" to its source text of the Koran and quote from it. Bill Warner's An Abridged Koran is good as it has actual percentages pertaining to voilence in the Koran and Old Testament. Also, the violence in the OT is superceded by the new covenant after the babylonian exile, plus the new covenanant of Jesus. So, the violent teachings in the OT are not open ended. Both Christians and Muslims kill in the name of their religion, but only Muslims can back this up with clear, open-ended teachings.

I'm an atheist, but I respect Christianity as a moral code. That's because it was founded by a moral, upright man. A common man, a worker, a pacifist who worked for the betterment of others.

Islam's moral code was set by it's founder, a mass murderer and warlord.

When Christians act violently, they act against the example set by their founder and the commandments given to them. There is theological leverage to correct their behaviour, to show them the error of their ways.

When Muslims act violently, the act fully in accordance with the example set by their founder and his commandments to the Muslims. There is NO theological argument, no leverage, that can correct their behaviour.

Essentially, you can be a good Christian and a good human being, though the two are not always synonymous. However it is intrinsically impossible to be a good Muslim and a good human being - the two are mutually exclusive.

"I'm an atheist, but I respect Christianity as a moral code. That's because it was founded by a moral, upright man. A common man, a worker, a pacifist who worked for the betterment of others.

Islam's moral code was set by it's founder, a mass murderer and warlord.

When Christians act violently, they act against the example set by their founder and the commandments given to them. There is theological leverage to correct their behaviour, to show them the error of their ways.

When Muslims act violently, the act fully in accordance with the example set by their founder and his commandments to the Muslims. There is NO theological argument, no leverage, that can correct their behaviour.

Essentially, you can be a good Christian and a good human being, though the two are not always synonymous. However it is intrinsically impossible to be a good Muslim and a good human being - the two are mutually exclusive."

As a fundamentalist Christian, it is refreshing to see the words of an intelligent atheist.I get so tired at times of trying to combat not ignorance, but stupidity. Jesus said plainly that the Christian religion was not for everyone, and only required us to preach the gospel. Not hate those that rejected it.Lk 14;26-30The requirements are stringent for a Christian, as the above verses show.

Kudos to you atheist,and thank you for understanding that the New Testament does not condone violence of any kind.

If Christianity is as bad as Islam, why has Christianity been growing ever more peaceful, tolerant, and liberating since the Middle Ages while Islam has grownmore and more violent in the same period? This is because Christian reformers have called the faithful back to the message of Chrsit which was peaceful while Muslim reformers have demanded a return to a shariah compliant dar al Islam which is violent, misogynistic, and anti-Semitic.

Anonymous said:"Unfortunately, Islam is still stuck in its "theocratic totalitarian" phase - it is running at least 500 years behind Christianity. And the really frightening thing is, it is using modern weaponry and terroristic nation-states (and Pakistan has nukes, and soon so will Iran) to accomplish its goals. So, we do not have the luxury of waiting around for it to reform. We must protect ourselves, our nations and our societies now."

In the first quoted sentence you imply that Islam, given enough time, will naturally follow through the "phases" that Christianity experienced. By this you insinuate that their messages, i.e. their ideologies, are basically the same. Or close enough. This is, of course, absurd.

That's a good point. In a way, the power wielded by Christianity was against its own doctrines, and the Reformation movement was "back to the texts." The power of the church had only accumulated because power tends to corrupt.

But Islam has already had its "reformation" movement. Unfortunately, when they go "back to the texts" it means moving away from "live and let live" and back to "off with the infidel's head."

When one studies the violence in the history of Christianity it should be noted that such concepts at willfull destruction of ''the infidel'' were alien to it prior to it encounter with Islam...The violence of Christianity was acquired from Islam. Schisms in the church were ongoing and struggled over through theological debate. ( Schisms every bit as divisive as the protestant split of the reformation) No forced conversions occurred until the time of Charlemagne. Nor were 'pagans' slaughtered over being pagan I.E The violence of Christianity was a diffusion appropriated from Islam. ( such was its intrinsic evil )

Here is one I use a lot. Please point out where in the New Testament where Jesus commanded his followers to kill, maim, plunder and torture. I find that no one can find it. However I do point out the many open ended commands in the quran about violence and death toward unbelievers.The thing is there is nothing like that in the new testament. Alot of islamic apologetics will use old testament violence to put islam on the same level. The new testament abrogated the old testament. Considering the lack of christian terrorism directly reflects on christianity's teachings of love, forgiveness and pray for your enemy today. Any violence committed in the name of christianity is swiftly condemned by christian community as a whole as there is no broad base of support for it. (i.e. Lords resistance army in the congo is condemned by xtian community and have no broad base of support whereas islamic terror groups do have broad base of support.

There are no open-ended commands in the Bible for either Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers. (Or anyone.)

That's why there are no Jews or Christians committing such acts, all over the world, on a regular basis, in obedience to those open-ended commands.

They will likely cut and paste some wartime passage from some OT book which you know they have never actually READ. You can just tell them to explain how that is an open-ended command, and where Jews or Christians are following it and using that passage to justify their acts.

They will have no answer. (Except to change the topic and spew out more falsehoods about the Bible - a book they've never read, just like they've never read the Koran.)

The Crusaders were NOT true Christians. They were paid mercenaries hired by the Pope in Rome. They also were promised access to Heaven if killed while serving him. Thus, manmade religions are ALWAYS in direct conflict with the God of the Holy Bible. This truth was confirmed by the religious leaders in Jerusalem who had the Lord Jesus crucified. Maranatha!

Don Richardson's "Secrets of the Koran" is like a textbook, replete with the history, examples and anecdotes that is laid out in a way a beginner can understand and deliver sound rebuttal to any Muslin. Just a small book, a couple hundred pages, but packs sound guidance in learning and understanding this dark religion. The KKK all but disappeared when the curtain was drawn back on it for America to see, and all that is needed for Islam to fade into the dustbin of history is for folks to shut up, and learn it's history. It is my contention that the liberal left props up Islam, not that it likes it but that Christianity stand opposing the very things the left champions like same sex marriage and abortion to name a couple and it's hatred for Christianity has so blinded then that they see Islam as an ally, or at least a counter balance. The left used to be the defender of women's rights but turn a blind eye to their sisters in shrouds, suffering under the thumb of this strange bedfellow. Secrets of the Koran......Give it a look.

Thanks for this page and the great advice. I've recently had a lengthy and frustrating 'conversation' with an Atheist on a thread in which the topic was Islam. As always happened, the conversation turns to the evils of religion and how "Christianity is as bad as Islam". The Atheist made comments about Christians in Africa burning 'witches' alive, hunting Albinos (Witch doctors 'hunt' Albinos, not Christians) and how Christians have had their children die as a result of prayer instead of medical attention and Christians "killing abortion doctors". And of course, the Crusades, Inquisition, etc.

While some points the Atheist made were true, I made many attempts to explain and provide examples how Christianity has reformed over the years and is nothing like Islam, even if there are a few examples of outliers to the message of love and forgiveness. I also provided a list of every Islamic organization that is currently deemed a terrorist organization, but such pertinent information was completely ignored.

There was also the excuse that any Islamic terrorism directed at the US is somehow 'deserving' and the product of the west's involvement in the Middle East. I pointed out that atrocities, such as the Armenian genocide had nothing to do with the US, but that, too, was ignored.

There are some really great suggestions here that I wish I had though of. However, from the condescending attitude of the Atheist, I realized that no amount of facts were going to make his Christian-bashing any less enjoyable. By the end, I was more disappointed in myself for engaging him and wasting my time.

It is frustrating, though, to have every single conversation about Islam turn into a finger-pointing, Christian-bashing hijack of the discussion. Grrr!

If other people are reading the thread, it might not have been a waste of time. It is a great way to learn and decide for yourself to read a conversation between two other people, because you aren't emotionally involved and can just weigh the arguments.

Keep trying, keep learning, keep getting better at it. More people need to learn about Islam. Sooner would be better than later.

Index for the Quran

Chronological Order

If you have a traditional Qur'an, get a PDF document to help you read the chapters in the order they were revealed rather than the traditional order (which is the longest to the shortest chapter): Click here.

Start Your Own Leaflet Campaign

Use this very informative and economical leaflet to help educate your fellow non-Muslims about Islam. Click here to read about the idea and get links to the PDF downloads.

Pamphlets and Leaflets

Print these out and use them to help you inform your fellow non-Muslims: Click here.

Brochure About Islam

This is a full color PDF document to print a two-sided brochure about basic information on Islam:

Let's Help Each Other

Take the Pledge

Some people say Islam is a religion of peace and that Islam has been hijacked by extremists, terrorists, and stealth jihadists who twist and distort the peaceful teachings of the Quran and quote it out of context.

Others say that political, supremacist, and even violent teachings are fundamental to Islam, and that people who say otherwise either haven’t read the Quran or are protecting Islam with religious deception (taqiyya).

The general confusion about the nature of Islam makes us collectively unable to make informed decisions. You can help end this confusion by reading the Quran. Stop believing what other people say and find out for yourself.

Article Spotlight

It illustrates the Islamic Supremacist vision by showing the similarity between what happened in the movie, Pleasantville, and what devout fundamentalist Muslims are trying to create in Islamic states like Syria, Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia (and ultimately everywhere in the world).