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Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

Originally Posted by j-mac

No, if you don't have it, then you don't have it. The deductible could be $25 and if you don't have it, it's too high. Look, we both know full well that this sham of a law is not going to last as written anyway, and never was intended to....The intent of it was always a pathway to Universal Health Care, using a Cloward/Piven model of destroying the system through overload. Are there problems with our system as it existed? Of course. Was this law intended to fix them? NO.

Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

Originally Posted by Guy Incognito

You misunderstand. If you don't have it you go into debt.

Wonderful. I can see a day where the predatory lender is right there at the registration desk upon arrival to the hospital....Won't that be wonderful? "Hey Mr. so and so, we are going to save your life, so that you can pay us back forever!" Or better yet, "We aren't going to give you that by-pass Mr. so and so, because you are simply too old."

Wonderful.

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

Originally Posted by j-mac

Wonderful. I can see a day where the predatory lender is right there at the registration desk upon arrival to the hospital....Won't that be wonderful? "Hey Mr. so and so, we are going to save your life, so that you can pay us back forever!" Or better yet, "We aren't going to give you that by-pass Mr. so and so, because you are simply too old."

Wonderful.

You have some very strange, wrong ideas. Typically, the patient is going to go into debt with the hospital.

Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

PACA is a conservative plan. It is a compromise. Stop geting all your news from Glenn Beck. This is not a Cloward Piven conspiracy, it is a center-right healthcare reform plan.

Adopting the Center for American Progress line of BS I see....This lie has been debunked over and over since it was first uttered by the likes of Chris Matthews, Nancy Pelosi, and the like....

Is the individual mandate at the heart of "ObamaCare" a conservative idea? Is it constitutional? And was it invented at The Heritage Foundation? In a word, no.

By Kate Patterson, USA TODAY
Stuart Butler

The U.S. Supreme Court will put the middle issue to rest. The answers to the first and last can come from me. After all, I headed Heritage's health work for 30 years. And make no mistake: Heritage and I actively oppose the individual mandate, including in an amicus brief filed in the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals to the Supreme Court.

Nevertheless, the myth persists. ObamaCare "adopts the 'individual mandate' concept from the conservative Heritage Foundation," Jonathan Alter wrote recently in The Washington Post. MSNBC's Chris Matthews makes the same claim, asserting that Republican support of a mandate "has its roots in a proposal by the conservative Heritage Foundation." Former House speaker Nancy Pelosi and others have made similar claims.

The confusion arises from the fact that 20 years ago, I held the view that as a technical matter, some form of requirement to purchase insurance was needed in a near-universal insurance market to avoid massive instability through "adverse selection" (insurers avoiding bad risks and healthy people declining coverage). At that time, President Clinton was proposing a universal health care plan, and Heritage and I devised a viable alternative.

My view was shared at the time by many conservative experts, including American Enterprise Institute (AEI) scholars, as well as most non-conservative analysts. Even libertarian-conservative icon Milton Friedman, in a 1991 Wall Street Journal article, advocated replacing Medicare and Medicaid "with a requirement that every U.S. family unit have a major medical insurance policy."

My idea was hardly new. Heritage did not invent the individual mandate.

But the version of the health insurance mandate Heritage and I supported in the 1990s had three critical features

First, it was not primarily intended to push people to obtain protection for their own good, but to protect others. Like auto damage liability insurance required in most states, our requirement focused on "catastrophic" costs — so hospitals and taxpayers would not have to foot the bill for the expensive illness or accident of someone who did not buy insurance.

Second, we sought to induce people to buy coverage primarily through the carrot of a generous health credit or voucher, financed in part by a fundamental reform of the tax treatment of health coverage, rather than by a stick.

And third, in the legislation we helped craft that ultimately became a preferred alternative to ClintonCare, the "mandate" was actually the loss of certain tax breaks for those not choosing to buy coverage, not a legal requirement.

Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

Adopting the Center for American Progress line of BS I see....This lie has been debunked over and over since it was first uttered by the likes of Chris Matthews, Nancy Pelosi, and the like....

So, the meme is simply not true.

I don't care whether heritage had anything to do with it or not. Look at what is does. It is not a leftist plan, as an objective matter. It is a centrist plan, leaning right. A leftist plan would have meant universal healthcare.

You clearly tried to tie it to Heritage from the Clinton era, like every other dishonest lib/progressive. Now when called on it, you deny it.....Typical.

...A leftist plan would have meant universal healthcare.

That is exactly the goal of this monstrosity, job killing, disaster....It was passed on a partisan line, in the middle of the night, against the will of the people, and only upheld by some real dishonest interpretation of the SCOTUS. To say that Obamacare's path doesn't lead to UHC, is a lie.

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
Alexis de Tocqueville

Re: Obamacare: Is a $2,000 deductible 'affordable?'

You clearly tried to tie it to Heritage from the Clinton era, like every other dishonest lib/progressive. Now when called on it, you deny it.....Typical.

That is exactly the goal of this monstrosity, job killing, disaster....It was passed on a partisan line, in the middle of the night, against the will of the people, and only upheld by some real dishonest interpretation of the SCOTUS. To say that Obamacare's path doesn't lead to UHC, is a lie.

No, I am not clearly trying to tie it to heritage. I was actually tying it to RomneyCare. By in any event, what the plan actually does is center-right, not leftist.