Abortion - All Emotion, No Answers

It seems one of the biggest dividers of this country is the abortion issue. Pro-abortion and anti-abortion. No one talks about solutions, the issue
just rages for 5, 10, 15, 25 years now.

Health classes in the country in some areas don't even talk about methods of contraception, under the theory that talking about contraception will
corrupt young people into having sex.

The alternative to abortion, adoption, isn't very well understood. If someone finds an adoption center, they can get a lot of support. But still,
many people have no idea about them.

Still, people keep raging about reproductive rights and killing babies with getting nowhere, even as the tools to get somewhere are left by the
wayside.

It seems that the number of abortions could be diminished with thorough education about sex and a national adoption agency, or a national drive to
make adoption better understood and more accepted. There are thousands of couples who can't conceive and want a child, and thousands of couples who
can't afford or don't want a child. I think we can settle the issue with some work on both sides of the issue, but you rarely hear anyone bringing
up solutions or alternatives. It seems it's another issue that's more useful for politicians to keep active than to solve.

Abortion is clearly murderer. Their arugument well it's not grown.
So a 15 year old male is not grown, so can we abort (aka kill) him because he is not fully grown?

Abortion is the same thing as this.
You ask a friend for loan, then you feel like not paying it back. So you kill your friend just not to pay for the loan. He wants the money, but
doesn't want to pay it back. The women wants the sex, but doesn't want a child, so she kills it in order to get rid of that problem.

The whole problem can be blamed on secularism, western ideology, femisism.
MTV, massive corpreations, governments which only cares about the pleasures of life and don't care were their influence is leading the people

Feminism teaches to rebel againist marriage, husbands and seek indepence from men in which lead's to a dating lifestyle. Meaning the women becomes
like a worn glove in which every time she dates/sleep with a man, her glove loss grip, she becomes more likely to dump, divorce the man. This also
then pressure's men into this lifestyle at the end of this. You get 20,s 30,s men and women at nightclub with gloves that are so worn that they have
given up on griping into a loyal, marriage type relationship. After a certain time all these people need is abid of compainonship and sex. The
sideffect this lifesyle it creates loveless human being's.

The government say's we a free, but they inslave us into a system that regard's money as the most worshiped thing. Morality, ethic's is something
that they turn a blind eye.

oh, yes, it is much better to go back to the old ways of doing things, the men works, the wife stays home with the kids, the men have all the
economic, legal power in the world, and the women seem to be the sacrificial lamb in every disagreement between the two.....force to obey the husband
IN ALL THINGS....just like the bible perscribes.

Meanwhile, when you take a real close look at society....

Children, and parenting seem to have little value. Their education seems less valued than the golfcourses and all the other crap that our gov'ts
decide to pay for while every year we are allowed to vote as to weather or not we want to lay off our kid's teachers, reduce the sprots programs,
ect. ect. why aren't we voting on the golf courses and other crap? and well, many stay at home moms aren't rewarded in much of any way
financiallly or socially.

Women have been forced to reduce the amount of time that they spend on household duties when they entered the workforce, but the men haven't
increased their time devouted to such things as dishes, cooking, vacuuming, ect. by much at all. Things that used to by done by the women are now
being left undone....where's the man, eager to pick up half of this load for the women?

And, well, companies and big corporations would now prefer to go everseas where they can profit more, by paying workers less....they don't want to
have to pay parents enough to support these children. And well, there is still the attitude embedded into some men's minds that women don;t reallly
need to make that much, after all the man has a family to support, and well, she has a man supporting her, or at least she should have!!

And, well, let's look at the great system that is put into place to make the parents pay child support, and the family court system that decides
which of the parents should get the kids, and well, how the system as a whole can in fact run against any man who might happen to gain custody of the
kids.

Back about a decade ago, the child support system was full of loopholes that enabled parents to skate free sometimes, and in others, well, the records
that we sent to the parents, were inadequate. Meaning that if you were having money garnished from your paycheck, you didn't recieve records as to
just how much was taken out sent to you on a regular basis. Thus, you had no easy way to determine if that money was actually making it to the right
destination. The one who had custody of that child did though. But, well, after messy divorces, they usuallly aint too talkative with each other.
There's alot of "dadbeat dads" who have paid in other words. The money has been shuttled off to some unknown destiny. Then when it is discovered,
well, they'll go through and blame everyone but the system....usually it's the business that did the payroll that got the blame. Is it honest
mistakes, or is that money being scuttled off somewhere to be used as for some secret military manuevering or what...who knows.
But, well, seems to me that a society that really values kids would have some better way to ensure that the parents of these kids are held accoutable
for supporting them.
And, well, why is it always the women who gets them.....if not because our society is geared so that the men usually have more earning power, and
well, so there is more money that way to "lose" in that system. and why isn't there some sort of pressure on the non-custodial parent to stay in
the same region as the child, and take charge of the child on a daily basis and thus, allow the wife the time to find a job, and work it. Since,
well, now, we have childcare costs higher that what she could make anyways. Heck, most of the men couldn't do it, which leads me to the problems
that arise when the men get custody...There is finacial assistance to help low income parents with child care....but the child care costs still take a
pretty big chunk out of the not so low income of the working man leaving him without enough to support them. And, well, what about child support for
them? The gov't will look to make sure that the mother is making enough to at least tide her over before they will take anything from her, thus if
he recieves support from her, it won't be as much as if she was getting support from him. Thus, the idea that it is the women who should get custody
is still pretty much prevalent.

Women were never fully liberated....they were just handed an offer from the government..."let us be your lord instead of your husband." Thus, they
were still shackled with what is pretty much a financially unrewarded occupation---raising the kids----which is to be quite honest more than a full
time job. Meanwhile the men really didn't make out so badly. NOw, instead of having to fully support their family, they could just partially
support them, have part of their paycheck taken, but never enough so that his income didn't provide for a half way decent lifestyle for him. And,
well, he only had to worry about the kids once a week!!

How about instead of just going back to the old way of doing things and making women the sacrificial lamb again, we go back and liberate her the right
ways. Equallly distribute the responsibilities of raising those kids between the two parents instead of insisting that they both adhere to the old
stereotypes of the past. And, then as an extra bonus, how about if we start reinforcing the idea that they should be meeting those responsibilities
by WORK...either employment, or self employment which requires informing those employers that they really need to start paying a wage that will take
care of a family.

Women shoulld not be allowed to Vote. They are not capable of making rational, well anything. So they also should not be allowed to murder their
children. "All emotion, No answers" descibes women period. All abortions are for selfish reasons.

A "worn glove?" That is one of the crudest analogies I've yet to here. And just how does this "worn glove" relate to the abortion issue?
Out-lawing abortion is again, about government stripping away our freedom. Don't be so naive as to think a government that implements capital
punishment and wages war for oil, has any concern for the rights of an unborn fetus. Abortion is as old as birth itself. It will always be an
alternative for women whether it's legal or not. You men might as well accept this.

I believe that the use of abortion for birth controlle is wrong. If you dont want to get pregnant, keep em closed. I believe in abortion under certain
circumstances. Rape, Incest, and a general danger to a mothers life. There are lots of kids out there having sex unprotected.If they are old enough to
make the choice to have sex, then they are old enough to deal with the responsibility. Abortion is the lazy way out of a problem.

Women shoulld not be allowed to Vote. They are not capable of making rational, well anything. So they also should not be allowed to murder their
children. "All emotion, No answers" descibes women period. All abortions are for selfish reasons.

women, need to go in the kitchen and make food while the men do the really hard thought. good grief look at history how long have the women catered
reletivly to their men? its not about equal rights, we all have equal rights as humans on earth, productivity clamors for proper distribution of work
load. look at it like this some one the strong rationally minded indivual(gee who could that be) goes to work for a independant labor force, while one
completes the mundane not so requireing tasks of household stabalization. sure there are roles to be reversed but its so much simpler this way,
forging and clear path of productivity that gets shuffled and mixed up so frequently lives are spun into chaos. thats only my take, and being only 20
not a very experienced one

honestly women, do you really want to get up and fight for societys woes, when there is a perfectly able man willing to represent your entire point of
view? we fight to death to uphold your peace of mind and way of living, all you need to do is cook food after the battles

trust me i have met a plethora of angry dykes to realize you guys are not all that comfertble with societies current attitude

Originally posted by dollmonster
How many of you "women bashers" are actually grownups with families of your own? None I suspect!

Actually, I have a 6 year old daughter. Some of the comments being made on this thread are pretty rediculious. The bashing of women here on this
thread comes from a few kids. Dont let them get to you. The fact is, abortion has been around in one form or another for longer than most people
realize. It is an issue that should be dealt with. A large part of the problem is the parents at home. I could get into this, but its time for my
weekly saturday morning trip to McDonalds with my daughter. We do it every saturday, and its the best part of my day. If my wife would have had an
abortion, I never would have had this

You get 20,s 30,s men and women at nightclub with gloves that are so worn that they have given up on griping into a loyal, marriage type relationship.
After a certain time all these people need is abid of compainonship and sex. The sideffect this lifesyle it creates loveless human being's.

this is brilliant my friend, a great look at the apathetic attitude towards human compasion. people just want to get their freak on, and undergo that
euphoric feeling a gratification, lacking any sense of connection people are hard pressed to intelecually stimulate one another. just like the crack
addict, always goes for more no matter what the cost. i wish folk would wake up and realize there is more to life then SEX and TV, then again here on
ATS that goes with out saying

The number of abortions could be reduced by first answering a question asked 31 years ago, and adjusting the law accordingly.

From Roe vs Wade: Texas urges that, apart from the Fourteenth Amendment, life begins at conception and is present throughout pregnancy, and that, therefore, the
State has a compelling interest in protecting that life from and after conception. We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins.
When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this
point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer.

Originally posted by Thinker
The whole problem can be blamed on secularism, western ideology, femisism.
MTV, massive corpreations, governments which only cares about the pleasures of life and don't care were their influence is leading the
people.

NO.

The whole problem can be blamed on poor education. Like I've said countless times before, people are going to have sex no matter what. We need
to educate young adults on sex and methods of contraception. There should be mandatory sex education for every kid in school. Also I wouldn't be
opposed to government programs that would make birth control either really cheap or free for people who want it. Blaming the problem on secularism,
western ideology, feminism, MTV, etc etc...... is a way of defelcting attention away from the real issue, and doesn't solve anything.

Let's get something straight right now, I don't agree with a woman using abortion as a form of birth control, but making abortions illegal will not
make them go away, it will take them "underground" like they were done before.

For the parents on this board.... your kids are going to have sex. Deal with it, instead of fooling yourselves into believing your kid is not having
sex, educate your child, talk to them about sex and the responsibilities that come with it.

Believe it or not I went to a Private Catholic School for grades K through 12, and in that school I got not one but two sexual education classes. Hell
they even bring a doctor to the school every year to give the seniors a two hour conference on sex, STD's and methods of contraception, and remember
this is a Private Catholic School. They need to do the same in all public schools.

Hmmm, first, pro-choice is not pro abortion, it is pro choice. Second, how many doctors, pregnant women, civillians been killed but the same people
who want to keep the mass of cells no bigger than my yhumb "alive"? It was what? 2-3 years ago these same nut jobs were sniping doctors at their
homes. Then you get the ones who pull a Palestinian and blow up a childrens hospital because they gave out condoms and pills and such.

Yes sex education would be nice. I rememeber the video they showed at school, it was dated 1974. Hmmmm, think we need to get past the "sitting on
a toilet a man has sat on will get you pregnant" videos. Also, abortion, how is it murder? Abortion is like "killing" a zombie, it isn't alive,
so you can't actually "kill" it, for it isn't alive.

Unfortunately education is not enough. Abortions occur even in developed countries. It happens because of social acceptance. People actually have
doubts about it, especially when told by doctors that "we still don't know". In countries that prohibit abortion, there is now a process of
imposing abortion through successive referendums until the answer is yes.

Unchecked abortion could turn into a source of raw biological matter for the pharmaceutical industry. Today, human placentas are already used to make
cosmetics. There is an abortion industry moving the wheels behind the pro-death stance.

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