"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

With a bunch of rocks and their evil ways why not just boatjack noah or batter him to death with said rocks.

Although evil is stupid evil is evil too.

Even evil has standards...

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Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

They knew they weren't supposed to eat the forbidden fruit, because they were specifically told not to eat the forbidden fruit.

That doesn't deal with the objection I raised. It's a flat out contradiction. According to the bible, they didn't know it was wrong (b/c they didn't know good/evil). Is this really that difficult to see? It's like punishing a child for spilling your drink even though you told him not to and you knew that he didn't know it was wrong. If there's no way of knowing the consequences (due to complete lack of knowledge) it is irrational to hold the subject accountable. Do you punish a toddler if he scratches your car or breaks the TV (even if you told him not to)? It's absurd (but I'm not surprised if you refuse to see that). This whole theology is complete nonsense (just like all the other theologies created by men). In fact, Paul even admits this (of sorts) in 1 Corinthians 1. Did you not know this? Why try to reason about something that is blatantly and clearly irrational? Just admit that your theology is irrational and then we can talk about why you are holding irrational beliefs.

You're conflating plans, as that word is used in the general sense of preparedness for multiple eventualities, and desires, as that word is used in specifically wanting to bring about an event or result. For example, my home state of California plans for earthquakes. We don't want the to happen, but we know they're going to. So many of us have small emergency stashes of food, water, medical kits, etc. Likewise, you could say God planned for the fall of man even before he created man. But that doesn't mean he wanted the fall of man to occur.

Except you've left out at least two things from this picture. 1. Your alleged 'God' is omnimax, and could very easily have avoided the "earthquake" (a point I hinted at earlier regarding "the fall" and God's alleged "plan", and 2) The bible quite specifically depicts a very different picture (one where he is 'in control' of creation - as a potter controls his pottery - nothing happens that does not go according to his will, etc). So it seems you are making up your own theology to avoid the inherent irrational nature of your bible. This is exactly what Muslims, Mormon, JWs, and Hindus try to do when we debate with them too, you know.

Creation as taught in the Bible means that God created the universe out of nothing. Nothing existed in its place before.

So God did not exist before God existed? LOL. This is another critical flaw in this line of thinking. Is God not 'something'? Do you not believe that God created man "in his image" and "after his own likeness"? Then, according to your own theology, we didn't come from nothing. We came from something (namely God). So you too don't believe in 'nothing', and never did. You believe there always was something. You're just choosing to call it 'God' (which doesn't refer to anything). But why call it that? Ah yes, b/c you assumed the bible is 'the Word of God'. But why should anyone think that? The bible is riddled with contradiction, errors, and falsities (which can be found easily with any quick Google search). Bart Ehrman is a bible scholar who was once an evangelical. He discovered these problems and actually decided to get honest about them (unlike most Christians who ignore them or try to SPIN/rationalize them away to save face). It's time to take a good look at the other side (without fear of the social consequences). It's time to put the pursuit of truth above emotional response or consequence.

NO, belief is NOT a choice. You can't choose to genuinely believe in magic pink unicorns. Belief happens when one is convinced (by good or bad reasons). It is not a choice. If someone steals your car you can't choose to believe it was not stolen (b/c you've already been convinced it was stolen). Please stop listening to Paul, and perhaps your pastor, who keep lying to you about this. It's simply not true.

If Biblegod drowned the entire world, how did they breathe? Oxygen is produced by plants, and trees, no? Did the oxygen before the flood last until it was all over?

-Nam

Doesn't phytoplankton produce the majority of oxygen?

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

Jesus wasn't just paying for your sins and my sins, even if our sins appear relatively less heinous than those of mass murderers, for example. He was also paying for the sins of those mass murderers and every other sin every committed.

I don't get why Jesus is supposed to be so special. Soldiers, police, firefighters, risk death all the time. Pilots and flight attendants are trained to risk their lives to save their passengers. Teachers have died protecting their students. There are women who died giving birth after more than three days of labor. Prisoners in concentration camps have endured months of suffering and have sacrificed themselves so others could live.

So, lots of people have sacrificed their lives for others, knowing that they would not be brought back to life. Many parents would give their lives to save their kids. I know I would be willing to face death to save my child-- or anyone's child. Give me the chance to save everyone on the planet by being tortured for three days and then dying? I'd sign right up. I am willing to bet that most people on earth would give their lives for far less than saving the souls of all humankind.

Jesus wasn't just paying for your sins and my sins, even if our sins appear relatively less heinous than those of mass murderers, for example. He was also paying for the sins of those mass murderers and every other sin every committed. So I don't think you need to construe his crucifixion so individually. Yes, it was for you, but not only for you.

So you allegedly have this all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good, God thing that decides to make a creation (knowing in advance what will happen) just so it can come down bodily and sacrifice itself, to itself, to act as a "payment" for a rule which it created for us in the first place. And this makes sense...how? If your theology is correct then this Jesus/God thing itself is responsible for the actions of it's creation (indeed it's an accomplice and has no room to blame us for anything). Fortunately, (just like the other religions) this alleged deity Yahweh thing looks quite clearly to be fiction and so there is no real reason to take the story seriously anyways.

Btw, how can you call a God "good" who could allow a person to live a life of monstrous mass murder (such as Hitler), and then "repent" at the last minute only to be allowed entrance into paradise? Why would you even worship an idea like this? You can't have a deity that is all-just and all-merciful (just like you can't have a deity that is changeless but changes it's mind). Alleged deities with contradictory characteristics like this simply do not exist.

I don't get why Jesus is supposed to be so special. Soldiers, police, firefighters, risk death all the time. Pilots and flight attendants are trained to risk their lives to save their passengers. Teachers have died protecting their students. There are women who died giving birth after more than three days of labor. Prisoners in concentration camps have endured months of suffering and have sacrificed themselves so others could live.

So, lots of people have sacrificed their lives for others, knowing that they would not be brought back to life. Many parents would give their lives to save their kids. I know I would be willing to face death to save my child-- or anyone's child. Give me the chance to save everyone on the planet by being tortured for three days and then dying? I'd sign right up. I am willing to bet that most people on earth would give their lives for far less than saving the souls of all humankind.

So, why is Jesus special again?

100% spot on. This Jesus concept didn't 'sacrifice' anything. It was supposed to be "God in flesh" and got to come back to life (supposedly) after three days - and even before that he wasn't really dead. It says he went to hell. WTF? The more I read the story the more it sounds like fiction, fiction, fiction (just like the other religions).

That's what I feel every time someone starts to discuss high physics. Um quantum this and Dark matter that. I just don't get it. I am also very suspicious of physics that isn't immediately demonstrable. Dark Matter seems eerily similar to Ether theory to me. A particle of the gaps.

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

If Biblegod drowned the entire world, how did they breathe? Oxygen is produced by plants, and trees, no? Did the oxygen before the flood last until it was all over?

-Nam

Doesn't phytoplankton produce the majority of oxygen?

I do recall this being true, as there is a ridiculous amount of the little plants.

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Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

That's what I feel every time someone starts to discuss high physics. Um quantum this and Dark matter that. I just don't get it. I am also very suspicious of physics that isn't immediately demonstrable. Dark Matter seems eerily similar to Ether theory to me. A particle of the gaps.

Many parents would give their lives to save their kids. I know I would be willing to face death to save my child-- or anyone's child.

The difference is that with Jesus it was far more serious business - God's feelings where really badly hurt when that piece of fruit went missing ....

In fact, that fruit was the cause of all bad...9_6

Logged

Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Hitler and Stalin and Mao--each of whom inflicted untold suffering on millions of people-- can accept Jesus at the last minute and gain entry into heaven. But peace-niks like Gandhi, Ang San Suu Kyi, and the Dalai Lama all go to hell, because they were not Christians.....WTF?

Hitler and Stalin and Mao--each of whom inflicted untold suffering on millions of people-- can accept Jesus at the last minute and gain entry into heaven. But peace-niks like Gandhi, Ang San Suu Kyi, and the Dalai Lama all go to hell, because they were not Christians.....WTF?

The redemption card in all its glory.

Logged

Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.