I bit the bullet and brought home another gun today. It's a Savage 110 chambered in 30.06. It has a cheap scope on it and Kwik Site mount which is a see through mount but I learned the hard way today that using the iron sights with that scope on the gun is a bad idea. Four stitches later I'm still glad I bought the Savage. I'm just not real happy with the scope setup.

BTW the Savage is used and I paid $225 for it. It appears to have plenty of life left in it. It's been bumped a few times but just cosmetic stuff. It's been someone's deer rifle I'm sure.

It's got me wondering if I should just remove the scope though. It's a Tasco 3-9X32 and I have to get way too close to it to see through it IMO. I wondered about that before I bought it. I know about eye relief and I know when a scope doesn't have enough. I think it will be better than shooting with the iron sights but at this point I'm going to have to think about it. I should have trusted my instincts and took the scope eye relief more seriously. I just didn't dream that a setup obviously designed to let you use the iron sights would lead to such trouble. It's downright embarassing. I've been shooting for 45 years and it's the first time I've ever gotten the least bit hurt. The scope doesn't stick out that far behind the receiver. It's maybe half an inch longer than I would like but I have to get so close to it to use it I can see another clash coming. I need a better scope now. My wife is going to use one of these guns on me yet. :) I think I'll just shoot it without a scope for now. I just can't get over it banging my head when I wasn't even using it. That see through mount is a bad idea on a gun that size unless you have a scout scope or a freaking red dot scope or something.

I also am having trouble figuring out the exact model of the 110. It doesn't have the Accu-trigger but it doesn't seem to be that old. My guess would be about 10 years. The serial number starts with an F136***.

sholling

August 12, 2008, 02:50 AM

If it were me I'd just put a good scope on it and mount it as low as possible. Something like this Nikon (http://www.swfa.com/pc-9244-2119-nikon-3-9x40-team-primos-riflescope.aspx) should be about right unless you have your heart set on using open sights. If you're not happy with the trigger I believe that Timney makes one for the older 110s.

Wildebees

August 12, 2008, 02:53 AM

Dear King Gh.

It seems that it is you first large calibre hunting rifle with a scope?

From many years of hunting in Africa with and without scopes I have never found an application where I needed the combination capability.

If you are into serious hunting your scope must have sufficient eye relief, otherwise the half moon shall be repeated again and again.

The 30-06 recoil is nowwhere near where a scope should even touch your brow. Get rid of that one or put it on one of your .22's.

It is a huge pleasure to be able to repeatedly hit a six inch x six inch square at 100 meters with open sights. If your eyesight is up to it, do it from a rest, then practise from the sitting position resting your elbows on your knees, and then offhand, standing. Man, if you can do the latter two, you can come to South Africa and hunt Impala and Warthog and Kudu with me with open sights. If we stalk properly shots are invariably at 80 metres.

And do not let the injury cause you to be afraid of that lovely rifle you have - there is no game animal in Africa that you can not hunt completely successfully with it.

I just recently got my son a 30 year old Musgrave in 30-06; excellent condition, it shoots sub MOA with commercial ammunition at 100 yds. He is slender and shoots it all day with a telescopic sight with 200 gr ammo.

Wildebees

August 12, 2008, 02:56 AM

By the way, I have old style Weaver mounts and rings on all my scopes - in my opinion they are the world's best for low mounting and you can remove it and put it back and the impact point stays the same.

King Ghidora

August 12, 2008, 03:21 AM

I've been shooting large caliber rifles since I was about 13 and I'm 52 now. It was the unusual mount that was the real problem. It put the scope up much higher than usual and I was shooting slightly uphill. My using the iron sights instead of the scope probably caused the contact. It just puts the scope much closer to your head than I was expecting. A lower mount would have hit me in the nose or between the eyes but truth be told I probably would have thought about what I was doing if I saw the scope in front of me instead of looking at the iron sights. The combination of the high scope and no rubber at all on the scope to break any potential contact just caused a problem. Mainly it was the height of the scope that got me because I was using the iron sights and just got up too close without thinking. I knew the scope and the mount were trouble when I was thinking about buying it. It was a dumb mistake but it wasn't out of ignorance. It was out of being careless really. I knew the potential problem and I didn't pay attention to it.

I didn't expect anything out of that cheap Tasco scope when I bought the gun. It's good for maybe sticking on a .22. It was the mount that put the scope closer to my head than I expected. I should have noticed. It's that simple.

Also I learned to shoot high powered rifles from a guy who shot hawks at 400 yards with iron sights. He always taught us that if you could see it you could shoot it. All scopes do is let you see the target better. I'm only thinking about getting a scope at all because my eyes aren't what they used to be.

I know the rifle is sweet as heck. I nailed what I shot at even though I nailed myself too. :) I won't make that mistake again. I'll have a scope with a lot more relief or I won't use a scope at all.

Kreyzhorse

August 12, 2008, 07:09 AM

It's got me wondering if I should just remove the scope though. It's a Tasco 3-9X32

I'd yank that Tasco off of it. Put on Nikon or even a Bushnell (The Banner series are a nice very affordable brand) and call it a day. If you plan on shooting open sights, take it off and call it good although I'm with you, my iron sight days are long gone. Had to put a Nikon on my Ruger No. 1.

jhgreasemonkey

August 12, 2008, 08:12 AM

I would take the scope off and use the open sights until you decide on the new scope you want to buy. No hurry on the scope since you are experienced with open sights. I used the open sights on my first savage 110 for several years before mounting a scope on it. Now I've got my second 110 and it came with a cheap simmons 8 point scope that has been working fine for me for 3 years. A lot of scopes now come with rubber rings around the eye piece too. I had a bushnell come loose on my shotgun while shooting slugs and whack me good in the top of my nose lol. Luckily it didnt cut me too bad because of the rubber ring. If you are looking to spend as little as possible and still get a decent scope, I have had great luck with the cheap bushnell scopes which are surprisingly clear and durable.

Art Eatman

August 12, 2008, 08:20 AM

I think I'd change the mounts, first.

If the eye-relief of the Tasco is 3" or more, I'd guess that it was mounted too far back. (I'm a bit of a stock-crawler, so I always mount scopes as far forward as I can. One of those "learned through the years" things. :) )

My opinion about hunting scopes is to "set it and forget it" after sighting in. Two inches high at 100 yards on an '06 and I'm good to go until such time as I think I should check the sight-in.

I wouldn't run out and buy a Tasco, but for casual deer hunting I wouldn't instantly get rid of one that was already on a rifle. I'd think differently for a high-dollar trophy hunt...

I guess that's 2¢ worth. :)

Art

taylorce1

August 12, 2008, 09:10 AM

I agree with Art. I've used a lot of budget scopes on my rifles that came with it a time of purchase. Until the scope fails to hold zero I don't see any need to replace it right away.

I'd just go out and buy a set of Weaver bases and rings like previously mentioned. I've never had any problems with them and they will not break the bank. I really like Weaver bases with Warne lever lock rings if I want a cheap quick release set up on my rifles. I've had a rifle with see-thru mounts and hated it, I'll never have a rifle set up that way ever again.

TNFrank

August 12, 2008, 02:37 PM

Most of the Tasco scopes are decent enough for most of us. I've got a World Class that came on the Savage 110E that I recently purchased and it's pretty good, it's a 50mm, 3-9x(not crazy about 3-9x but hey, it came on the gun so I'm not going to complain) and all total I've got $175 into the gun and scope. Add another $115 for a set of Williams sights a recoil pad and scope bases and I'm still under my $300 buck budget. The bore has quite a few pits in it but I've managed to clean most of the crud out of it using 0000 steel wool and lots of elbow grease. Stock looks nice painted OD Ultra Flat with 3 coats of semi-gloss polyurethane on it and since it's a Savage it'd be easy enough for me to rebarrel it in the future if I want. I can get a .338-06 bbl. for $130 from Midway, that'd be sweet.

King Ghidora

August 12, 2008, 03:28 PM

When I sight with the iron sights the scope is barely over an inch from my forehead. Plus I was aiming up hill when I shot it which would have made it even closer. That's why I got konked. The Tasco would probably be ok if I were sighting through it. It does get a little close for my comfort. I know it's supposed to be 3 inches but it doesn't seem that far.

I might give the Tasco a try just to see if I get konked again. What's a few more stitches? :) Obviously people don't get konked using Tasco scopes on a 30.06. Too many people have mentioned using them already. The scope could only be moved forward about a quarter of an inch BTW but I would still have to get just as close to the scope to use it.

I'd really like to find out what particular model of 110 this might be. The 110's I see now all have more information in their model name besides just the 110. I just wondered if that was always true and if so is there a way to tell the complete model name of my 110?

UPDATE I just discovered that my serial number shows the gun was made around the early 90's. That's a start I guess. The people who bought out Savage in 1995 won't service anything before the serial # F498821. That's about 300,000 guns ahead of mine. So I figure that has to put mine in the early 90's. I'm kinda surprised it's that old. I had guessed 10 years earlier. It's in VG condition which is of course all that matters. I would expect a Savage to last a lot longer than 15 years. I don't think I paid a lot for it or anything. And I know I could have bought a new Stevens for $300 plus a FFL dealer fee to get it shipped here. But that's $100 more than I paid. I might have looked around a lot and found one a little cheaper but it would have taken time and, even worse, it would have taken gas. I'm very happy with what I have. I have a Stevens that is MUCH older than this Savage. I have faith this one will last and if it doesn't it can be fixed. It works now.

Also I had my wife check out how close the scope is to my head holding it the way I shot it when I got konked. It was just about an inch. The bad thing is that when I sight through the scope it's still just a little over an inch from my head. About an inch and a half she said. I'm taking the scope off.

TNFrank

August 12, 2008, 03:49 PM

You might be able to get some info here:
http://www.savageshooters.com/SavageForum/
but don't hold your breath waiting for it. Replies are no where near as quick as they are here.

King Ghidora

August 12, 2008, 06:08 PM

I've already checked out that board. Questions about exact models and years of manufacture go unanswered there. The board just doesn't have that many people and the ones that are there don't seem to be interested in answering questions. Thanks for the suggestion though. It's more than I would have gotten on that board for sure. :)

jhgreasemonkey

August 12, 2008, 08:12 PM

Yeah you also gotta be a "paid member" to access the technical stuff there. Bummer. :(
Sounds like you got a great deal on your rifle being that its in very good condition. Hope you enjoy it.

jmr40

August 12, 2008, 09:22 PM

Savage rifles have a bit more space between the ring mounts than most rifles. This makes scope mounting more of a challenge. Especially the long actions. You may want to try soime extension rings. This will give you more room to move the scope back and forth for correct eye relief.

jhgreasemonkey

August 13, 2008, 12:24 AM

Thats true. I ran into that on a scope, so I bought a B-Square 1 piece mount for $8 at midwayusa and it took care of the mounting situation. The weaver style mount runs the whole length of the action allowing mounting of the scope rings where ever you want. The mount is designed to allow you to load and unload from the top as well. It has a half moon cut out. So it doesnt hinder top loading/unloading if you have a blind magazine. I think that it's the easiest way to go to allow mounting of all scopes.

King Ghidora

August 13, 2008, 05:43 AM

I looked for the mount you mentioned jhgreasemonkey but couldn't find one. I'd like a Weaver mount but one that runs the full length might be a problem since my 110 is a top loader only. I didn't see any mounts with cutouts like you mentioned. They're listed as working with a 110 at Midway but they look like they would be a problem to me. I would think that a 2 piece would be a better setup. I wouldn't have to worry about loading or ejection problems as much. There are plenty of 2 piece Weaver style mounts though.

I actually think I could get by with the mount setup that I have. The rings and the mount are built together but it's a two piece setup. I just need a scope with more relief. That Tasco isn't very good at anything IMO. I know all scopes are particular about where you have to look through them from but the Tasco is very, very particular. Better scopes I've seen don't have that kind of a problem.

I took the scope off tonight. Now it's obvious the iron sights need to be adjusted but the gun is shooting a solid pattern but it just isn't where the iron sights are aimed. The previous owner must have been using the scope or maybe they just couldn't shoot for crap. Adjusting the iron sights shouldn't be too much trouble though. Just takes a few rounds to get it set right.

I do sorta get iffy about shooting a high power rifle in my front yard. My setup is really safe but I'm sure my neighbors get antsy about things especially with something as loud as a '.06. Shooting .22's or even my .45's is one thing but the Savage makes some serious noise. I just need to head out to the farm to shoot it. I can shoot much more distance out there anyway.

sholling

August 13, 2008, 10:31 AM

I'm not sure if DNZ makes a mount for your specific model but if they do you should take a look at their one-piece DedNutz (http://www.dnzproducts.com/index.php) mounts. I recommend them highly and use them whenever possible.

It seems that it is you first large calibre hunting rifle with a scope?

Please do not see this as having been meant in any other way than most sincere - I apologise equally sincerely if you felt offended by it. :)

Your post drew some very interesting and valid comments. I hunted plains game (springbok and blesbok) both for my own consumption as well as for a smallgroup of butchers who sell whole venison carcasses. Because the market for that is very fastidious no shots were allowed below the head-neck join, so one (read "I") could not shoot further than about 200 M with the .270 and 150 gr bullets. And out of habit (style/fashion whatever) all my other rifles also had good quality scopes on them.

Since 1990 I live in the Northern Transvaal area and hunt mostly in the bush where shots are invariably between 70 - 110M. Because of the dense vegetation and because shots are mostly off-hand, one (read "I"..) can not chance head shots as the possibility of the bullet just passing through the sinuses is too great and the animal shall certainly be lost. So heart-lung area is the target, and even with my spectacles I have recentlly re-discovered that I can put it into that area with Impala and warthog using my iron sights, and even easier with kudu and wildebeest.

Kudu particularly leaves you about three - four seconds to shoot, and what I have come to discover again is that open sights are just very adequate for this limited time available. It also forces a little better bushcraft, better consideration of the situation, and careful shot placement only when one is certain that the bullet shall go where it has to.

I certainly envy you people in the USA that have logical gun laws. In the "old" South Africa firearms also had to be licenced, but it was a formality in order to have a record and hardly ever took more than a few days. In the "new" SA it takes at best two years for an application to be successful and only if you are lucky to be allowed a weapon. Pages and pages of statements, motivations, competency checks, often by individuals who do not know the mere basics of the weapon in question. And then a few years on the license has to be renewed, with exactly the same process being repeated.

Only problem is, with more than 2 000 murders a month just in the Johannesburg Pretoria area, and murder charges against any citizen who shoots and kills armed attackers, people are handing in their firearms by the thousands inn sterad of going through the schlep of re-licencing. It is almost true now that in South Africa only outlaws have guns, and use them all the time, with impunity too - the police turn a blind eye. Sadly also, so many murders are being committed with firearms stolen from police office gun safes. What a silly situation it is.

jhgreasemonkey

August 13, 2008, 12:59 PM

Here you go I got you a link for that one piece B-Square mount. And it does work fine with top load only. I have used it on my savage that is top load only. There is more space than you would think. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=149590&t=11082005
That one is for the pre accutrigger "flat action" which you have. Anything listed as "round action" for the savage is for the accutrigger models.

King Ghidora

August 13, 2008, 05:29 PM

Thanks for the help on the mounts. There are so many on the market it's hard to sort through them when you really haven't been involved in buying them before. I have used scopes of course and I've bought scopes but mostly they were dovetail mounts from quite a few years back. I've shot high power rifles but I haven't set up any scopes for them. I can use all the help I can get.

Wildebees you are correct that a person can usually get off a shot much faster without a scope and it's not hard to be accurate to 100 yards or more without a scope. I've always preferred shooting without a scope in fact but my eyes aren't what they once were and neither are my nerves. It's getting harder for me to hold any gun steady like I once did.

You're certainly right that are blessed to have the gun laws we have here. I live in a rural area that is also a high crime area. People here pretty much have to protect themselves and thank goodness we are still allowed to. There was a big push about a decade ago to take our rights away from us. We fought back hard and not only kept our rights but expanded them in most cases. We now have concealed carry permits in almost all states now.

While we have a great situation with our gun rights what we don't have is the amount and variety of game to hunt here that you seem to have. We have deer and turkey where I live and elk are spreading into this area again and there are different types of game to hunt in other areas. But many types of game were hunted out back during the great depression and it took many decades for them to make a comeback. When I was young I lived on a remote farm and I saw exactly one deer there. I did see it twice but there were no other deer at all. They are plentiful now and so are turkey but or course you can't hunt turkey with a rifle.

The bad thing about hunting deer is that there are so many people in the woods with guns that it can be a real problem here. In my home state now we can only hunt with slugs but across the river in Kentucky people hunt with rifles. I am part owner of a farm there so I will be able to hunt there. But every year there are hunters who get shot by people who are like some you describe - they know nothing about the guns they're carrying. Not long ago one was arrested for hunting right beside a large highway about a quarter of a mile from the center of a small town. Every year people get bullets in their houses too. And farm animals are shot. One guy tracked a mule for miles before shooting it thinking he was tracking a deer.

So maybe you are more lucky than you think. I would think the woods aren't full of idiots with guns there with the laws you have. Given a choice I would take our laws in a heartbeat but I'd like to have more game to hunt and fewer idiots with guns too.

jhgreasemonkey

August 13, 2008, 07:21 PM

Thanks for the help on the mounts. There are so many on the market it's hard to sort through them when you really haven't been involved in buying them before.
No problem. :)
I hear ya! When I was first trying to find something to make one of my shorter tube scopes work on that rifle it took me several confusing hours of looking online and through my midway catalog. Finally I found that mount. There are other options but that is the least expensive and it works fine for me. Good luck with your new rifle.

King Ghidora

August 14, 2008, 10:06 AM

I ordered the B-Square mount a little bit ago. I'm waiting to see what scope I get before I order any rings. I'm going to try to find a good used scope first. I've seen some nice scopes for sale used lately. I'm not in a big hurry to buy a scope and my wife isn't either. :) I've bought five guns this year along with a lot of other stuff. Plus I've stocked up on ammo for my .45's and my SKS. Now I'm gonna need some 30.06 stockpiled. :D Anybody know where to get some 150 gr. stuff cheap? I found this 145 gr. Russian stuff (http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php?pName=100rds-3006-golden-bear-145gr-fmj-ammo&cName=rifle-ammo-3006) but who knows what quality it might be. Is anyone familiar with it? It certainly is cheap. I'm just thinking about stuff for target practice. I wouldn't think about hunting with it.

sholling

August 14, 2008, 10:39 AM

With the price on these discontinued Nikon Team Primos (http://www.swfa.com/pc-9244-2119-nikon-3-9x40-team-primos-riflescope.aspx) (private label Monarch UCC) I wouldn't bother looking for used. I own two and recommend them highly. A tiny step up is their special run Bushnell 4200 (http://www.swfa.com/pc-7280-185-bushnell-3-9x40-elite-4200-rifle-scope.aspx) they have on sale at SWFA. I wouldn't bother with that Rusky stuff... Federal PowerShok is cheap at Walmart.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recommended_riflescopes.htm

King Ghidora

August 14, 2008, 12:04 PM

That Nikon is a nice scope and I have been thinking about getting one already. But I believe I can find a good used scope for about half of that price. I might even find a better scope to be honest. There are lots and lots of deer hunters who use HP rifles in this area and those that try it a while and give up and those that try it and move up to better equipment are always leaving very good equipment behind to be picked up at a reduced cost. That's how I got my gun at a good price. I think I might be able to get a scope the same way. At least I'm going to give it a try until my wife gets over me buying this gun.

I might mount the Tasco on my Stevens .22. It should be a decent scope for that gun. I have a laser sight on my Marlin and that thing will drive tacks at 50 yards. I haven't really tried it any further than that. It will likely do even more distance.

I did manage to get the iron sights adjusted to very close to where they should be. Until I head to the farm and shoot at distance I won't be able to adjust them perfectly. Still at least they aren't shooting a foot high at 30 yards now. Obviously the previous owner didn't use them and didn't notice they were off by a mile. I got them down to where I'm shooting a 1 inch pattern at 35-40 yards which I know is a long way from how good they can be but it's a start. I just have to keep making adjustments until I get it right at the distance I want. I'll probably adjust them to 150 yards because my eyes aren't as good as they used to be.

langenc

August 16, 2008, 12:25 PM

I only read a couple of posts and am not sure what you want to do with the rifle. Scope power/reticle will depend.

Id say you cant go wrong with an older Weaver K4 or K6. Reticle depends on how old your eyes are-duplex, dot, post or hairs. Go to ebay and be patient till you get a good one. Should be less than $100 with freight and mounts.

King Ghidora

August 17, 2008, 11:01 PM

Found a used Bushnell Trophy series scope at a decent price with rings so I went ahead and bought it for now. It's 3-9X40 but I really liked the eye relief and the way the rings mounted the scope on my gun. It's nothing exceptional or anything but it will do for now. Guns and Shooting (http://www.chuckhawks.com/recommended_riflescopes.htm) recommended it so I figured it can't be all bad. I'll probably get a better scope down the road but for now I'll be happy with this one. I really have spent too much money on guns lately so I need to wait a while to spend a lot of money on a scope..

Mainly I just like shooting. I want a scope so I can work on my long range shooting. I haven't done much long range shooting for quite a few years and I just want to start doing it again. I can use a scope because my eyes aren't as good as they once were.

I can see myself doing some deer hunting too. I own a farm in a state that allows using high power rifles on deer. I know where an albino deer lives and I've been thinking about taking it before it dies of old age. I think it would look pretty good mounted on my wall. We've left it alone for many years but it's pretty old now and I'd like to have it mounted. The closest I've ever gotten to it is about 200 yards so I need to be able to hit it at that distance. It's a very timid animal compared to most deer in the area. I could get a shot at a deer from under 30 yards if I wanted. I just want that albino before the coyotes get it.

crowbeaner

August 18, 2008, 12:21 PM

Be advised that shooting an albino deer is bad juju. The legend is that you'll meet some untimely demise if you do. I don't think the curse extends to piebald ones though.