its pretty clear Relic didn't put too much effort into the MP and co-op. not saying its easy or anything, but with only 2 game modes and 5 maps for MP and 2 stages it just doesn't seem like they were going for a big MP experience. a lot of the focus seems to be put into the campaign, which is good but in the end its the MP that keeps games alive these days(if its included)

it's clear they will be releasing map packs and maybe even a few more game modes, at least i hope they do because 2 games wont keep people around for too long.

I believe people will stick around for ages just for the sake of playing as Space Marines. Well, some people anyway. And I think there might actually be a whole lot of those. The MP would have to be really bad to fend off the thousands of die-hard 40k fans.

Chompster, MP is pretty addictive, even if you've unlocked all of the weapon perks.

I would gladly say yes to more maps and the like of course

it indeed is. but once you run out of things to unlock it wont be long before its less fun it used to be.like with BFBC2 for me I'm only Rank 38 out of the 50 and since 36 i unlocked everything there was, barely play the game now since there just isn't anything to really play for.

with Space Marines it could be different of course like Lelorelyn said, for the sake of being able to play as a Space Marines or CSM will keep a lot of people around it probably will for me

but they did say the had a extensive DLC plan ahead for Space Marines so that could keep the game going even longer than it would have.

I wonder if their DLC plan includes lots and lots of different skins and not much else, just that would suck. They could make Orks playable, for example. I'm pretty sure all weapons and classes have their Orky counterparts in 40k ( Shoota, Loota/Flash Git, Stormboy?)... and if some weapons don't they could just say "Oh, see, they looted them.". Anyway, that would just be a new skin too.

I suppose they'll add things like new co-op stuff or multiplayer modes like... I dunno, Capture the Flag, King of the Hill or something-anything-w/e?

I believe people will stick around for ages just for the sake of playing as Space Marines. Well, some people anyway. And I think there might actually be a whole lot of those. The MP would have to be really bad to fend off the thousands of die-hard 40k fans.

Honestly, this. I had all the levels unlocked when I previewed MP, I had all the perks. I played for five hours without getting the slightest bit bored.

Of course, I'm a 40k addict, and I love how the game represents the fluff, so I'm biased there. But I honestly think MP will attract a lot of 40k lovers, and keep them entertained.

So many hours spent on the Customiser. So. Many >.>

Chompster wrote:

it indeed is. but once you run out of things to unlock it wont be long before its less fun it used to be.like with BFBC2 for me I'm only Rank 38 out of the 50 and since 36 i unlocked everything there was, barely play the game now since there just isn't anything to really play for.

To be fair I don't understand the need to keep playing just to grind weapon unlocks, if you know the unlocks ahead of time (which you will, because other players will get them first, people will post a list of what you unlock at what level, etc). The only time I find grinding for unlocks fun is in an RPG when there is a significant element of chance (and/or crafting which involves chance). Torchlight is a fantastic example here.

But that's merely my own personal view on the subject. Though, if someone is going to get that bored that easily, perhaps Space Marine isn't the game for them?

just remembered you also have to unlock the armors pieces, and if i remember some of them had some pretty nasty requirements. that could easily keep people busy if they want them bad enough. though those will most likely only be the 40K fanatics.and then you have all those achievements, which i lately have become addicted to in getting..

i'll keep playing this all the way till BF3 for sure and even after that.

I think I've found my FPS (TPS? Bawlfajawthg) for the year. Haven't been this into such a game since L4D (the original). Portal and L4D2 were solid fun, but nothing has made me go "yay fun" like this since L4D.

The bolter seems to be a waste of time anyway, you need to put serveral rounds into anything before you kill it but with a chainsword/power axe with a few swipes and slashes ten orks around you are dead.

So Space Marine is now a TPS H&S.

Add it to the acronym journal.

_________________there's a fine line between not listening and not caring. I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life.

No, the Stalker-pattern bolter is supposed to be the battle rifle with the lascannon acting as the sniper rifle. You are all right about the regular bolter though. It seems like a crappy assault rifle and not something that fires .75 caliber explosive gyrojet rockets.

_________________"...the trouble with everyone thinking you're a hero is that they tend to assume you like being in mortal danger and [they] go out of their way to provide some."

Forgot about the lascannon, so let me get this right. The bolter is a crappy .22 gun which does next to nothing, the stalker is a bolter which acts like a bolter but only has a ten round mag and single fire, and the lascannon is a sniper rifle.

****, do these guys know their lore?

_________________there's a fine line between not listening and not caring. I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life.

main point i wanted to bring up was at 3:28, though I'm still very excited for this game and can't want to play it(haven't even gotten the chance to play the demo yet!! ) the all around voice acting just isn't as high quality as i expected from Relic. at 3:28 you hear Leandoros or whatever the noobs name was talking with his helmet on, yet there seems to be no sign what so ever of our beloved space marine helmt vox-like sound effect. not even when the pilot talks, his voice is just deeper. not gona throw a fit over something like this but..

No, the Stalker-pattern bolter is supposed to be the battle rifle with the lascannon acting as the sniper rifle. You are all right about the regular bolter though. It seems like a crappy assault rifle and not something that fires .75 caliber explosive gyrojet rockets.

Calgar wrote:

Forgot about the lascannon, so let me get this right. The bolter is a crappy .22 gun which does next to nothing, the stalker is a bolter which acts like a bolter but only has a ten round mag and single fire, and the lascannon is a sniper rifle.

****, do these guys know their lore?

The bolter does plenty of damage; remember that this is the default weapon of every single Adeptus Astartes in the 40k universe. Their basic ranged weapon which barely suffices to kill the witch, the mutant and the heretic. Not to mention the xenos scum.

I mean, Orks can survive being beheaded and having their head sewn onto another headless Ork body. As weapons get more powerful, so do your enemies. Power creep.

Anyhow, as far as aesthetics go that's a perfectly personal opinion, so if you're underwhelmed with the SFX and GFX, then you're underwhelmed.

The Stalker-pattern bolter is intended to, well, stalk. Single-shot sounds acceptable, as does increased armour penetration and a limited magazine (balance, yo). The lascannon is a freaking lascannon. It evapourates most targets in the SP Campaign. Poof, vanished. And it's a low-powered version (drawn from Dark Heresy, a GW-approved 40k RPG) at that.

What are you bitching about?

SpardaSon21 wrote:

They probably made ranged weapons suck on purpose so we would be forced to do melee combat. Never mind the Codex Astartes does not allow the use of combat knives in melee combat.

The Codex Astartes says what? That's stupid, what other use is there for a combat knife?

Actually, considering how tough Orks are supposed to be... the Bolter and Boltgun seemed relatively realistic to me in terms of damage output. Well, only the Nob seems to be able to take way too many headshots. Disproportional compared to other Orks, taken that his toughness increases at least kind of proportional to his size. And not exponentially or w/e.

They should probably have been a bit louder, coz they sure ain't roaring.

Also, Gorb, please stop reminding people that their personal opinions are their personal opinions. I'm fairly sure that we all know that by now...

No, but really... I'm confused too. What are combat knives used for if not, duh, combat?

Actually, aren't Ultramarines supposed to carry some kind of short-swords with them? Something akin to a Gladius?

That would certainly explain why the Codex would say something like that... perhaps Guilliman wanted to force other chapters to adopt those things so he can feel more awesome about himself and his space smurfs.

I said that Space Marines don't use combat knives in close combat because Codex: Space Marines doesn't give Devastators, Tacticals, and Sternguard close combat weapons, a category which would presumably include combat knives and/or short swords. Assuming Devastators, Tacticals, and Sternguard carry close combat weapons, the only reason I can think of for them not being listed is that they aren't allowed to use them.

_________________"...the trouble with everyone thinking you're a hero is that they tend to assume you like being in mortal danger and [they] go out of their way to provide some."

Lelorelyn, people often assume that because I attack their arguments that I am denying them the right to have an opinion. Hence I usually plaster the disclaimer that you objected to everywhere these days, just in case someone feels the need to go OH MY CIVIL LIBERTIES

SpardaSon21 wrote:

I said that Space Marines don't use combat knives in close combat because Codex: Space Marines doesn't give Devastators, Tacticals, and Sternguard close combat weapons, a category which would presumably include combat knives and/or short swords. Assuming Devastators, Tacticals, and Sternguard carry close combat weapons, the only reason I can think of for them not being listed is that they aren't allowed to use them.

I am of the opinion that the Tabletop Codex is by no means exhaustive or even completely factual in terms of weapon loadouts and/or combat doctrines. I mean, I don't think that GW have ever put the literal Codex Astartes to paper

Heck, Games Workshop approved Space Marine (as they did DoW II), and the developers have expressed in the past (as they did with DoW II) that certain things are designed in a certain way due to restrictions and/or input from GW on the subject.

That the bolter is still weaker than we feel it should be. It makes no bloody sense to arm what are supposed to be some of the best troops in the Imperium with a gun that has a hard time killing a simply Ork Boy, that's more a Guardsman's specialty. -_-

Hell even that terrible game Fire Warrior had better bolters.

Some ways I'd tweak it;Higher damage / lower rate of fire Not suggesting a one hit killer, but something more akin to the bolter we see in fluff, the same bolter that can take out Necron Warriors (Damnos) with a well aimed burst, turn traitor Guard into bloody ribbons, etc. I mean seriously, they're already partially into fluff territory with 3 Ultras fighting off Orks and Chaos, why not go all the way?

Increase maximum ammo capacity for the standard BolterIf we're starting to talk about TT and codexes, nobody ever runs out of bloody ammo in TT, not basic troops at least.

_________________Who does the Guard trust the most?AIRBORNE!Who do the ladies love the most?AIRBORNE!Who do the Xenos fear the most?AIRBORNE!

I said that Space Marines don't use combat knives in close combat because Codex: Space Marines doesn't give Devastators, Tacticals, and Sternguard close combat weapons, a category which would presumably include combat knives and/or short swords. Assuming Devastators, Tacticals, and Sternguard carry close combat weapons, the only reason I can think of for them not being listed is that they aren't allowed to use them.

I'm fairly sure that the older codexes did give them close combat weapons as standard along with the bolter.

They just got upgraded to a pistol with in itself can be used as one and has ranged capability.

To all the people bitching about the bolter, look at it in the gears weapon style sense...

A powerful weapon, a ranged ok weapon and a close ranged get in a few shot weapon.

Oh, and a special weapon.

believe it or not that system works really well considering so many enemies and tough guys are around the place. Each weapon is designed for a certain role. So what if it isn't 100% fluff.

There's several different views that convolute it anyway. I'd rather take gameplay over that than having 4 ultrakill weapons that don't offer me a challenge.

I said that Space Marines don't use combat knives in close combat because Codex: Space Marines doesn't give Devastators, Tacticals, and Sternguard close combat weapons, a category which would presumably include combat knives and/or short swords. Assuming Devastators, Tacticals, and Sternguard carry close combat weapons, the only reason I can think of for them not being listed is that they aren't allowed to use them.

And that's really weird. I can't imagine why super-expensive super soldiers wouldn't be given at least a chunk of sharpened metal for close combat.

Gorb, I really can't imagine why somebody would assume something like that. But then again, people are pretty crazy. Now I find your constant use of that "disclaimer" even more humorous.

1. Again... Bolters are considered an 'average' weapon in 40k. There is a reason the bolter is the most mediocre weapon in TT. It doesn't particularly excel at anything but it doesn't exactly have any weaknesses, just like the Space Marines themselves. And don't say 'in deh floof...' because fluff widely varies codex to codex, multiply this by 5 when it comes to edition to edition.

2. All Astartes USED to come with Combat Knives in their plastic kits iirc. Knives were never considered an actual close combat weapon that gave an extra attack, with the exception being Dark Eldar Wyches who have their own fluff supporting why a knife in their hands is equal to a full-sized close combat weapon. Scouts get it because the 'Combat Blade' is just a smaller version of the Chainsword, or at least it used to be.

There is a reason the bolter is the most mediocre weapon in TT. It doesn't particularly excel at anything but it doesn't exactly have any weaknesses, just like the Space Marines themselves. And don't say 'in deh floof...' because fluff widely varies codex to codex, multiply this by 5 when it comes to edition to edition.

I'm sorry but the title for most mediocre 40K weapon, both in TT and fluff, is the Imperial Guard lasgun.

In the game, it is unable to even scratch a trukk, that's a bunch of clobbered wooden planks over 4 wheels.

In the fluff, it is as good as our own assault rifles from 30 years ago. Yessir, 38K in the future, and the imperium managed to make a laser weapon that's worst than our own mass produced weaponry. And don't give me that "but it can be recharged with sunlight and fire!" crap. Our soldiers also can always pick up rocks from the ground and throw them at the enemy. That doesn't mean that rocks/lasguns are actually effective against anything.

In the fluff, it is as good as our own assault rifles from 30 years ago. Yessir, 38K in the future, and the imperium managed to make a laser weapon that's worst than our own mass produced weaponry.

Being a laser weapon it's far more accurate and more high tech. To even make the same impact as kinetic based weapon would require A LOT of power unless you're going to burn them for a weapon that size.

Not to mention its designed to be mass produced, which means cheap and quick to replace should it ever break. Pluss it doesn't have the tendency to jam and due to minimal moving parts makes it a very reliable weapon in all terrains.

So yea, don't dismiss the "flashlight" that easily when it has quite a bit going for it.

To all the people bitching about the bolter, look at it in the gears weapon style sense...

This isn't Gears of War. And if you really want that perspective, the Lancer is overall better than this "bolter". The Lancer has a larger clip, staggers your foes, larger ammo capacity (660 rounds max) and sounds good as well.Every campaign run of Gears that I've done the Lancer has always been there, it's dependable, reliable and tough. This "bolter" is a mediocre weapon that I'd probably ditch in a heartbeat. Nearly 20% of the clip gets expended to kill a simple Ork Boy. What does that tell you when you go up against a Nob? Or a Warboss? Or heaven forbid a traitor Marine? You'll burn through ammo faster than anything save for the damnnable Storm Bolter that as a dev said "pisses ammo".

For fucks sakes even the Bolt Pistol does more damage per shot.That ain't right in any sense since the two of them are supposed to fire the same if not similar round.

I'm not saying it shout be a one hit wonder and slaughter all in your path. I'm saying it should be tweaked. Maybe a 20-30% increase in damage with an equal drop in fire rate perhaps? Something more akin to that awesomely beautiful Bolter from Fire Warrior. Let's see that one again shall we? Now that's what I call a true Boltgun.

Horus wrote:

There's several different views that convolute it anyway. I'd rather take gameplay over that than having 4 ultrakill weapons that don't offer me a challenge.

I'd take a better portrayal of the lore over "convenient for the gameplay bullshit" any day of the week. Despite that, say you do have 4 ultrakill weapons. You still have an Ork horde with lord knows what kind of numbers or vehicles...and then Chaos with traitor marines and Daemons. It'd still be tough I think.

Besides, wasn't the entire Space Marine arsenal at one point tossed into the BFG category?

Fuegan wrote:

And don't say 'in deh floof...' because fluff widely varies codex to codex, multiply this by 5 when it comes to edition to edition.

Don't bring up TT rules when much of this game throws the codex and TT out of the window. 3 Space Marines against an Ork horde and Chaos, this is the kind of thing you'd see out of Matt Ward. Ironic too as those 3 are Ultramarines...

Onard wrote:

I'm sorry but the title for most mediocre 40K weapon, both in TT and fluff, is the Imperial Guard lasgun.

In the game, it is unable to even scratch a trukk, that's a bunch of clobbered wooden planks over 4 wheels.

In the fluff, it is as good as our own assault rifles from 30 years ago. Yessir, 38K in the future, and the imperium managed to make a laser weapon that's worst than our own mass produced weaponry. And don't give me that "but it can be recharged with sunlight and fire!" crap. Our soldiers also can always pick up rocks from the ground and throw them at the enemy. That doesn't mean that rocks/lasguns are actually effective against anything.

To be fair, in some of the fluff I once read about a human whose arm was burned off from a single lasbolt...Granted this was years ago when the 3rd Marine Codex was still around so I don't know if GW went the George Lucas route since then and shat over the previous lore like what they did with Ollanius Pius.

Though I'll bet they did.

_________________Who does the Guard trust the most?AIRBORNE!Who do the ladies love the most?AIRBORNE!Who do the Xenos fear the most?AIRBORNE!

Yeah lets just make every weapon in the game a one hit kill like in fluff, that will make it a lot more fun. MINOR SPOILER ABOUT THE BOLTER you get a kraken bolter a little later on in the game that is a bit better and replaces your old bolter. END SPOILER. If you really want to complain that much about one gun then don't buy the game. I just beat the campaign and I really enjoyed it. The campaign left me wanting more. As for the multiplayer its a lot of fun but the lag is really ruining the game for me right now.

_________________Cold and fast Soul Drinkers!

Derp Banshees are supposed to beat stuff like Terminators in CC. Herp a derp. - Gorb

I would imagine it would be hard to put enough enemys on screen to justify the bolter being a one shot kill.

Other games have had large numbers of enemies on screen. Earlier trailers of Space Marine made it look to be a Dynasty Warriors kind of game with the mobs you saw.

But I'm not saying it should be a one shot kill. Maybe 2-4 tops for a lowly Boy with a headshot being a instant kill if there's no protection. It's a Boy after all, nothing fancy for an Ork. In the same thought I'd reduce the fire rate by 30-50% to compensate for the greater damage bringing it more in-line with the bolter in Fire Warrior and most recently the movie. More focus on the single shot and 2-3 round bursts as to my understanding of bolters, should do rather than full auto spray (which bolters don't do last I read but I could be wrong).

That would allow hordes to still be dangerous as you have to make every shot count...like Space Marines really do.

EDIT: Of course you know what I just thought of? I'm playing on the Xbox 360, so it may very well be a different feel and design on the PC. It wouldn't be the first time a game hasn't been the same on different systems.

_________________Who does the Guard trust the most?AIRBORNE!Who do the ladies love the most?AIRBORNE!Who do the Xenos fear the most?AIRBORNE!

The game is identical on both versions. Evidently you just suck more on the console version, because the data sets are predictably identical.

Astartes Marine wrote:

I don't. Don't assume that I do.

I didn't assume, you specifically used the word "we", so unless you have multiple brains and/or bodies and/or mind-thralled puppets, you are not a collective. You are a singular individual, i.e. "I". Not "we".

Quote:

For fucks sakes even the Bolt Pistol does more damage per shot.That ain't right in any sense since the two of them are supposed to fire the same if not similar round.

Incorrect, they do similar damage per shot; I think the bolter does slightly more damage. Four-five headshots will net you a kill, with both weapons. Might even be three headshots for the bolter.

Quote:

I'd take a better portrayal of the lore over "convenient for the gameplay bullshit" any day of the week.

So basically you don't give two shits about gameplay, you just want the game to be as you, personally, interpret the lore?

Quote:

Don't bring up TT rules when much of this game throws the codex and TT out of the window. 3 Space Marines against an Ork horde and Chaos, this is the kind of thing you'd see out of Matt Ward. Ironic too as those 3 are Ultramarines...

The hilarious thing is that this happens all the time in the fluff, and has done for years. A single battle-brother with a heavy bolter holding the line against Orks single-handedly (random quotation). A quartet of Space Wolves destroying pretty much everything in front of them (Space Wolf).

Methinks you're predisposed to complaining just because the game isn't 100% the way you want it to be.

You want the bolter one way. That's nice. Other people evidently don't, and their opinion is just as valid as yours.

Pistol takes 3 shots to the head as well, its just not accurate over medium ranges.

Quote:

This isn't Gears of War. And if you really want that perspective, the Lancer is overall better than this "bolter". The Lancer has a larger clip, staggers your foes, larger ammo capacity (660 rounds max) and sounds good as well.

If you ever played the game as extensively as i did (1000s of games over the course of 3 years, yep i was addicted to that game playing all day and night rofl XD) you would have noticed that the lancer in itself was just as weak, often taking a clip and a half to "down" people unless you got them a lot in the head or had an "active reload" Only later, about a few months before gears two was released did they ever vamp up the said lancer to be more powerful. Besides i said they are using a similar system, not a direct cross over, even there there are lots of things that are similar to gears of war in the game. It hasn't been quoted "warhammer meets gears" for no reason, depite there not being able to cover.

They even fixed a lot of the glitches and lag problems in the pc version, but said **** you to the console because of apparent "money costs" when it pretty much used the same code.

I often got bitched at for apparently being a host when I was on an ok connection and lagging just as much as everybody else because I got that good at judging the latency in that game ^_^