Food_Eatah wrote:Yawn, the world repeats it'self. It's not as if this "Kill the rich when things are bad" haven't happened again and again in the past.Over throw the goverment and see who rules. I'd wager it's people with more raw charisma, brute force and fire power.

It's time for Euro to go federalism ... altogether, European countries have no problem and are strong. When one step is made to go "One World", also when at first it's made for business purpose, it's a positive step ...

Sönam

You will regret -- it would be better for European countries to return to their own currencies and dismantle the EU. The EU is actually a policy agenda of neo-liberalism.

The so-called neo-liberalism thing is almost certainly on the way out. Anyway, how can you actually expect a group of social democracies to support a version of laisse-faire capitalism + fixed markets in international trade? Or do you have another view of neo-liberalism?

Those days, again, they continues ... they recommand to their client to bet on the dégradation of European economy. Doing so they participate to the European degradation. Doing so they participate to the degradation of US economy.Let's also have a look, in the world, who drives the business in the world, a couple of them come from Goldman Sachs.So one may know where is the real enemy, it's not Greece, Italy, France or Europa, it's not socialism or indisciplined European ... the enemy is those who bet on peoples disease.

Sönam

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.- Longchen Rabjam -

kirtu wrote:The so-called neo-liberalism thing is almost certainly on the way out. Anyway, how can you actually expect a group of social democracies to support a version of laisse-faire capitalism + fixed markets in international trade? Or do you have another view of neo-liberalism?

Kirt

My view of neo=-liberalism is that WTO type agreements have basically caught everyone in a neo-liberal free trade nightmare. Look at all the so alled "austerity" measures being enforced by banks on this and that country. International capital has become a more powerful force than national governments, which is the whole point and goal of the neo-liberal agenda from the beginning i.e. less regulation, more market transparency, weaker unions, more profits, etc.

The simplest thing to do, to pay for the whole thing is redistribute some wealth from the %1. Yes, raise taxes of rich people, since they are not creating an goddamned job and are just bloodsuckers, capitalist leeches.

Namdrol wrote:These are not socialist programs, since people pay FICA out of their paychecks for them every week. We PAY for SS. Or did that little fact escape your attention.

Of course we pay for it. Just like we pay for everything else in the planned economy either directly via taxes or paycheck deductions or indirectly via sovereign debt. Just because a program isn't a deficit program doesn't mean it isn't socialist. Or does a planned economy only mean those parts of the economy that are federal outlays outside of GDP (which SS isn't)?

Your position is like saying people shouldn't want to stop spending for the elephant crapping in the living room because it comes straight out of my salary and it isn't leased.

kirtu wrote:The so-called neo-liberalism thing is almost certainly on the way out. Anyway, how can you actually expect a group of social democracies to support a version of laisse-faire capitalism + fixed markets in international trade? Or do you have another view of neo-liberalism?

Kirt

My view of neo=-liberalism is that WTO type agreements have basically caught everyone in a neo-liberal free trade nightmare. Look at all the so alled "austerity" measures being enforced by banks on this and that country. International capital has become a more powerful force than national governments, which is the whole point and goal of the neo-liberal agenda from the beginning i.e. less regulation, more market transparency, weaker unions, more profits, etc.

I think neo-liberalism is more powerful than ever, not weaker.

Good points. I certainly agree. However markets are not transparent. The flow of information (even public information) is controlled by corporations who in effect push their advantage (soa a form of insider trading). All the rest is certainly the case.

Namdrol wrote:Market transparency means transparency to corporations -- we know, that like their human counterparts, they don't give a frak about anything other than enriching themselves at the expense of others.

Namdrol wrote:Market transparency means transparency to corporations -- we know, that like their human counterparts, they don't give a frak about anything other than enriching themselves at the expense of others.

Not again with corporations being evil.

Go to India where meat is so expensive.

Corporations allow Americans to maintain a middle class lifestyle.

No, they don't. The middle class lifestyle is swiftly disappearing in the US? Why? Corporations and neo-liberalization of trade. Cost of living has been rising steadily against wages for years in the US. The middle class is all but dead.

Namdrol wrote:Market transparency means transparency to corporations -- we know, that like their human counterparts, they don't give a frak about anything other than enriching themselves at the expense of others.

Riiiiiiiight - because you know Goldman has been hiding in deep dark secret vaults the fact that its been shorting on European debt for years. You know kind of like those evil Bilderberg Republicans in their smoke-filled rooms hatching their evul top-secret plots for Zionist world domination ...

Let me ask you something - are you familiar with the federal '33 and '34 Acts? Do you know what they say and what they require in terms of full disclosure for financial transactions? Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that the financial community, including the Greeks, have been completely and totally ignorant that the entire financial sector has been shorting European bonds for years? And that because of, and as a direct result of that ignorance, the pure, pristine innocent Greek government was raped by a bunch of ravening Wall Street wolves who invaded their country and krazy-glued a bunch of credit cards to their hands to pay for their enormously overweight diet of social programs? Is that really, honestly your position?

The fact is that the banks were asked to make a market for Euro bonds by the European central banks. Those very same European central banks that are now squealing like little piggies because they somehow, by some inter-galactic leap of trans-human imagination, are now claiming that they didn't know, they couldn't possibly, possibly ever have known in a million gazillion years, that the enormously overweight sovereign socialist budgets of the PIIGS nations meant that there was going to be a crisis.