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Well, I found this thread just after seeing the movie and replied instantly without thinking to much The name of the thread and replies seemed not righteous for me at that time. Also this thread started way before the movie was produced so it looked to me that there were some prejudices, and I am a bit sensitive to that lately. For instance, after seeing this movie I do not think Keanu Reeves raped Japanese culture. But then again as an European in the 21st century I do not know much about the culture so maybe that's why I didn't understand it.

First I must admit I do not know the story of the 47 ronin exactly as it been told originally (I doubt there's only one version) but in my opinion the producer and Keanu did a good job in making a convincing movie about it. Despite the fact that Keanu is a bit wooden/stiff/clumsy, I didn't noticed it much in this performance. Minimal facial expression suited his role of lowest class/bashed/outcasted 'demon'. In fact in his role he wasn't a Samurai but followed the 'bushido' path more then the Samurai were. Also the mythical and alien looking creatures in the movie didn't bother me because I have seen (read) those in Japanese saga before. All in all a nice and beautiful American style movie about the Japanese story about the 47 ronin, surely not for everyone.

So, you saw the movie and enjoyed it. People enjoyed the musical "Oliver!" too, but it's certainly legitimate (and not "prejudiced") to point out that the orphans in Dickens' "Oliver Twist" were hardly bursting into song at the drop of a hat. I have no problem with those who want to make an entertaining film, but I think there's a legitimate complaint if you claim to be making a film of a particular story and then just not follow the story.

Huh. Wow. Didn't see it. Don't care. And I don't recall any propaganda trucks cruising through demanding we attend screenings for proper indoctrination.

The, um, drama evident in this thread is somewhat ironic...

The kid wanted to see a movie this weekend that apparently has a small, talking raccoon voiced by some famous actor fella. But I was vastly too busy raping intergalactic culture reading the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Oh, heavens, I hope it doesn't pervert my sensibilities too much. At least I have my towel...

Umm movies are make believe and are not reality. Their purpose is to make money not tell historically correct stories. The screen writer, producer, director and actors interpret the story the way they want it to be. Any resemblance to actual events are purely accidental.

I would think the very fact Reeves was the lead would be a sufficient warning of rather significant artistic license...

Hello Keith,

The same is true of Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai. It is curious that Sanada Hiroyuki appears in both films, and in a vaguely similar role: as the upholder of traditional Japanese values as these are popularly understood. The depiction of the 47 Ronin story in Japanese literature, including drama, is worth a study in itself.

One of my students did his graduation thesis on the Titanic disaster, considered as a vehicle for presenting dramatic fiction.I have four Titanic films and all of them are different. I also have three film versions of Melville's Moby Dick and all of them deviate in interesting respects from what Melville actually wrote. With a film like Troy, you have a double issue, for the film in which Brad Pitt plays Achilles has been criticized from deviating from Homer's account of the Trojan war, but his account is highly fictional to begin with.

The same is true of Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai. It is curious that Sanada Hiroyuki appears in both films, and in a vaguely similar role: as the upholder of traditional Japanese values as these are popularly understood. The depiction of the 47 Ronin story in Japanese literature, including drama, is worth a study in itself.

One of my students did his graduation thesis on the Titanic disaster, considered as a vehicle for presenting dramatic fiction.I have four Titanic films and all of them are different. I also have three film versions of Melville's Moby Dick and all of them deviate in interesting respects from what Melville actually wrote. With a film like Troy, you have a double issue, for the film in which Brad Pitt plays Achilles has been criticized from deviating from Homer's account of the Trojan war, but his account is highly fictional to begin with.

Yeah, it was funny, years ago I came across a decent nihonto in a lovely old handmade sword box with an ownership attribution beautifully brushed on the top. What was funny is that it said the sword was owned by one of the "loyal 47 ronin" and used a name from one of the versions of the Chūshingura kabuki (I think -- it was a while ago). So it was clearly a "fake" attribution but the story has such a life of its own that the fictionalized versions are better known and sometimes considered more accurate than the known history.

Then there's the entire Musashi legend that was so, well, expanded by Yoshikawa. And just a month or two ago a student of mine came by with a copy of the Hagakure explaining to me how very informative it was to him about the nature of Japanese samurai culture.

Hobbsbawm in action...

And in virtually every bad movie ever made here with Japanese swords, I cringe every time someone draws the sword. The effects folk put in that god-awful metal "screeetch" sound. Argh!!!!! Your sword isn't working right!!!!!!! Nails on a chalkboard for me.

Well hey, I got a copy of Stan Sakai's illustrated "47 Ronin" from Stan Sakai, autographed and WITH a samurai doodle from the man himself. I'm such a fan. My old jo sensei saw me reading a copy of "Usagi Yojimbo" once, which has about a gazillion recycled stories/legends/histories, looked at a picture of Usagi with a sword, and said, "Oh, he's a kendo guy."

Anyway, I think part of the point is that there are some stories that are deeply intertwined in cultures. And those stories themselves morph to a great extent over time as future generations meld them to impart the important values of the time. Frankly there are multiple versions of the 47 Ronin story with a variety of interpretations. And the business about invented traditions I brought up is also relevant as those stories, often made up or greatly distorted from the historical "fact" (no, I'm not defining that one either) is to hopefully help us realize that these things are not monolithic, never changing things. They are a reflection of their time and place and if they are to survive they often change for the times as much as our understanding of times past are affected by them.

Leaving me pretty much where I started in this... I had no desire really to see it. And calling it a "raping" of culture strikes me as rather excessive. But i think there is a good supply of irony involved when you realize how malleable these stories ultimately are over time. And so many want to preserve the "right" version out of what are in fact many, many versions. When the right one may not even exist...

Sorry, home on my back, drugged a bit. trying to deal with some pain. So I'm chatty too. And probably incoherent. So signing off...