neoteric

An in the closet Atheist and have yet to come face to face with someone I knew to be an ex-muslim, so the CEMB forum will hopefully be a great outlet for me to discuss and compare our experiences in a world I didn't previously think to have existed when I had doubts about my faith.

Just briefly, even as a kid in Madrasa I had doubts and found contradictory elements of the Quran, but had my concerns suppressed by my elders as questioning the word of Allah was a grave sin. It got to the point as a teenager where I knew deep down I felt the ideology ranged from sketchy to patently ridiculous, and an insincere Muslim was just as destined to hell as a murtad, so I had to try and objectively weigh up the notion of Islam.

After a long examination, I realised I had put a mask over and rationalised a lot of negative elements of Islam. Not only did I not believe in an omnipresent god, a lot of its tenets were completely incongruous to my sense of morality.

neoteric

My mum just threw at me an almighty tirade about how I was slowly becoming a kufr and if I didn't start practicing Islam by Ramadan I would be outta the house.

Then she demanded an inspection of my room, mail and computer from now on as I had lost the family's trust. Invading my privacy would be the only way to 'help' me.

She is sick and tired of being asked why I'm never at the mosque anymore, and I am embarrassing our family in the community. She wonders why I have become distant, what has happened to the son she raised? Have I started taking drugs? Has the shaitan got a hold of me?

I could see her sadness, the melancholic dispair of realising that I wasn't becoming the man she expected me to be when she was raising me. That the love and sacrifice over the years would result in such a waste of a life.

I can't stomach telling her. I feign irreverence. "Looks like I have two months to find a new place."

Whenever I imagined coming out to my family I envisaged it being this remarkable release of the daily shackles I had to trundle along with. That I could give my unreserved opinion of anything and if they didn't like it then fuck them and their bigoted thoughts. Better being estranged while free than mentally imprisoned in their company.

I feel so bad for this crazy, deluded woman. It's weird. I look at her exiting the driveway and I feel sorry for her. I don't feel guilty, yet I know what she is going through and how much it must be hurting her. Terrible to see someone you love in so much pain. I wish the feeelings were mutual.

Da_Dude

Do you have a job? Considering the fact that you're living at home, is there anyway you could move out? I don't think that telling her would be a good idea until you have somewhere stable to live on your own as you could get kicked out. Even if you do get kicked out, you could stay in a men's refuge until you get a place of your own.

My mother used to do inspections on my room too as I wasn't religious enough and occassionally expressed views contrary to their own religious views. It was very violating of my privacy, and I even had diaries I kept that my mother would tear up and my mother would write in red letters boldly over the top to express the correct view on anything she disagreed with, and that was when I was in my mid teens. They even did forced urinal inspections, watching me use the toilet 'cause they said that I was as bad as a druggie so they needed to keep an eye on me even when using the toilet (even though I'd never touched a drug when a teen the comparison was a complete joke).

When it finally came out as an adult that I'm an apostate (on the phone she told me she knew cause she'd heard my views from others), she was so sad, so hurt, I am a stigma to the family, have shamed my father's name, she told me I was dead to them and that I have hurt her deeply. It hurt knowing that I'm the cause of that pain, but there is nothing one can do, you can't believe something you don't believe.

Be strong and know that you have done nothing wrong by leaving Islam, they might find it hard to accept and may never accept it, yet you are being true to yourself and have true integrity. I wish I could help you, but am too scared to give you my contact details lol. But I send you warm wishes and am thinking of you and I hope you are ok.

You are a person of true integrity in the face of social suicide, it shows how strong you are and how brave. It isn't easy leaving Islam when you know that by doing so it causes conflict and problems in interpersonal relationships, especially family.

neoteric

Do you have a job? Considering the fact that you're living at home, is there anyway you could move out? I don't think that telling her would be a good idea until you have somewhere stable to live on your own as you could get kicked out. Even if you do get kicked out, you could stay in a men's refuge until you get a place of your own.

My mother used to do inspections on my room too as I wasn't religious enough and occassionally expressed views contrary to their own religious views. It was very violating of my privacy, and I even had diaries I kept that my mother would tear up and my mother would write in red letters boldly over the top to express the correct view on anything she disagreed with, and that was when I was in my mid teens. They even did forced urinal inspections, watching me use the toilet 'cause they said that I was as bad as a druggie so they needed to keep an eye on me even when using the toilet (even though I'd never touched a drug when a teen the comparison was a complete joke).

When it finally came out as an adult that I'm an apostate (on the phone she told me she knew cause she'd heard my views from others), she was so sad, so hurt, I am a stigma to the family, have shamed my father's name, she told me I was dead to them and that I have hurt her deeply. It hurt knowing that I'm the cause of that pain, but there is nothing one can do, you can't believe something you don't believe.

Be strong and know that you have done nothing wrong by leaving Islam, they might find it hard to accept and may never accept it, yet you are being true to yourself and have true integrity. I wish I still lived in [removed] as I would help you, but don't live there and am too scared to give you my contact details lol. But I send you warm wishes and am thinking of you and I hope you are ok.

You are a person of true integrity in the face of social suicide, it shows how strong you are and how brave. It isn't easy leaving Islam when you know that by doing so it causes conflict and problems in interpersonal relationships, especially family.

I don't have a job. Hopefully I'll be able to find one within the two months. I do have a couple of grand stashed away to go backpacking in Europe, that will at least alleviate some difficulty as I start my independent life. I'm a little scared, but also very eager and excited. It looks like it may be a new chapter in my life.

You've been through a hell of a lot and I admire your strength in dealing with what your family and your ex have thrown at you. It is crazy what Islam can drive people to do.

I live in Melbourne, hehe. Your ex sounds like a psychopath, I would be hesitant to give out my details too.

It is very difficult, but they aren't aware of my apostasy yet. I harbour dreams of leading a double life where I live independently as an atheist, but still have close ties with my family where they consider me still a muslim. (albeit a non practicing one) Other times I just think fuck it, you can't pretend forever, holdy your tongue as they spew out bigoted, irrational nonsense.

I know how sickeningly righteous this is gonna come across, but the biggest fear in tellling them would be what it would do to their lives. I think I could live my life estranged from my family, I really could. I don't know if I could live with the fact that they would have a hole in their hurts that I caused. Particularly my mother. It would be like literally losing her little boy.

Da_Dude

I don't have a job. Hopefully I'll be able to find one within the two months. I do have a couple of grand stashed away to go backpacking in Europe, that will at least alleviate some difficulty as I start my independent life. I'm a little scared, but also very eager and excited. It looks like it may be a new chapter in my life.

You've been through a hell of a lot and I admire your strength in dealing with what your family and your ex have thrown at you. It is crazy what Islam can drive people to do.

I live in [removed], hehe. Your ex sounds like a psychopath, I would be hesitant to give out my details too.

It is very difficult, but they aren't aware of my apostasy yet. I harbour dreams of leading a double life where I live independently as an atheist, but still have close ties with my family where they consider me still a muslim. (albeit a non practicing one) Other times I just think fuck it, you can't pretend forever, holdy your tongue as they spew out bigoted, irrational nonsense.

I know how sickeningly righteous this is gonna come across, but the biggest fear in tellling them would be what it would do to their lives. I think I could live my life estranged from my family, I really could. I don't know if I could live with the fact that they would have a hole in their hurts that I caused. Particularly my mother. It would be like literally losing her little boy.

It's good you have some money set aside to help you get through, that should help you put some money down for a bond and the initial rent, you could always live in a shared-house situation. I hope you find a job soon. Are you studying at the moment?

Sorry for some reason I thought you were in ____ lol. I thought I'd read that lol, but my brain is moosh at the moment from these new anti-depressants I'm on lol.

It is exciting, you have your whole life ahead of you! So much potential and you get to write your life.

I used to habour those dreams too, that of living a double life, but living a lie is really hard and it's inevitable that the true you will come out in bits and pieces anyway. It's so hard holding your tongue regarding stuff they spew out, I know 'cause it used to drive me nuts. Sometimes I have wondered if they really had wanted to know the truth or if they would've preferred the fake me, the pretend me who said what they wanted to hear, who lived how they wanted me to live.

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I know how sickeningly righteous this is gonna come across, but the biggest fear in tellling them would be what it would do to their lives. I think I could live my life estranged from my family, I really could. I don't know if I could live with the fact that they would have a hole in their hurts that I caused. Particularly my mother. It would be like literally losing her little boy.

I don't think it's sickeningly righteous at all, it's normal to have those fears, you love them, you care for them, and it hurts to think that one's disbelief will create such pain. At the end of the day, it's your parent's decision how they will take it, you aren't in control of their reaction to it. I know it's hard to view it that way but they do have the choice whether they will accept you or not regardless of your religious views.

My brother and I were talking about this very same thing awhile back (my brother is a borderline atheist), and he was saying to me that it's so hard for my parents to accept my atheism because they've invested their whole life into religion, they have invested their whole life into making sure us kids would be good enough to get into heaven and their whole value system revolves around honour and reputation. So by rejecting their values and religion in effect they take it as a rejection of them or as a personal attack, their egos are linked to religion and reputation and a warped sense of family honour.

It's such a pity it works that way but unfortunate for some of us it does, you never know though, your parents might over time come to terms with it.

It's so suffocating keeping it a secret though, it must be really hard for you at the moment.

neoteric

It's good you have some money set aside to help you get through, that should help you put some money down for a bond and the initial rent, you could always live in a shared-house situation. I hope you find a job soon. Are you studying at the moment?

Sorry for some reason I thought you were in ____ lol. I thought I'd read that lol, but my brain is moosh at the moment from these new anti-depressants I'm on lol.

It is exciting, you have your whole life ahead of you! So much potential and you get to write your life.

I used to habour those dreams too, that of living a double life, but living a lie is really hard and it's inevitable that the true you will come out in bits and pieces anyway. It's so hard holding your tongue regarding stuff they spew out, I know 'cause it used to drive me nuts. Sometimes I have wondered if they really had wanted to know the truth or if they would've preferred the fake me, the pretend me who said what they wanted to hear, who lived how they wanted me to live.

I don't think it's sickeningly righteous at all, it's normal to have those fears, you love them, you care for them, and it hurts to think that one's disbelief will create such pain. At the end of the day, it's your parent's decision how they will take it, you aren't in control of their reaction to it. I know it's hard to view it that way but they do have the choice whether they will accept you or not regardless of your religious views.

My brother and I were talking about this very same thing awhile back (my brother is a borderline atheist), and he was saying to me that it's so hard for my parents to accept my atheism because they've invested their whole life into religion, they have invested their whole life into making sure us kids would be good enough to get into heaven and their whole value system revolves around honour and reputation. So by rejecting their values and religion in effect they take it as a rejection of them or as a personal attack, their egos are linked to religion and reputation and a warped sense of family honour.

It's such a pity it works that way but unfortunate for some of us it does, you never know though, your parents might over time come to terms with it.

It's so suffocating keeping it a secret though, it must be really hard for you at the moment.

I was thinking of doing the whole shared house thing. Find someone around my age looking for a house or flatmate. I actually bought the family's big arse plasma so there's some incentive to have me as a housemate.

I cut down on my studies to partime this year in order to get a job, save up for travel and then defer my studies while I'm over in Europe having orgies with natural breasted Czech chicks.

Yeah, it would be difficult muzzle myself in their presence for the rest of my life. Definitely would have to move a considerable distance away from my relatives for it to work out, then be fairly ambiguous about my personal life.

I've been asked by a few muslims if I still believed in the religion. Despite them being friends, it stunned me that I was being so transparent. My fumbled responses werent exactly convincing either. I'm not sure whether my mum is completely oblivious or if she suspects something, though she has had enough examples for her to really question me on my beliefs and she has refrained from making doubtful comment. Before today I'd lean towards oblivious, now probably not...

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My brother and I were talking about this very same thing awhile back (my brother is a borderline atheist), and he was saying to me that it's so hard for my parents to accept my atheism because they've invested their whole life into religion, they have invested their whole life into making sure us kids would be good enough to get into heaven and their whole value system revolves around honour and reputation. So by rejecting their values and religion in effect they take it as a rejection of them or as a personal attack, their egos are linked to religion and reputation and a warped sense of family honour.

That is dead on. udhu billahi min al shaitanir rajim!!!! They can't fathom someone deconverting. (I know I couldn't when I was a muslim)

My dad may accept it, my mum never, ever would. I thought my older brother might have doubts about Islam, but he recently moved to Saudi Arabia for work so....

What is Australia, like 3% muslim? I can't imagine what people go through in Islamic nations.

Al-Ma`arri

I don't have a job. Hopefully I'll be able to find one within the two months. I do have a couple of grand stashed away to go backpacking in Europe, that will at least alleviate some difficulty as I start my independent life. I'm a little scared, but also very eager and excited. It looks like it may be a new chapter in my life.

Just hold out! If you ever come to (Northern) Europe. Just tell me!

"Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

- John Keats

Da_Dude

I was thinking of doing the whole shared house thing. Find someone around my age looking for a house or flatmate. I actually bought the family's big arse plasma so there's some incentive to have me as a housemate.

I cut down on my studies to partime this year in order to get a job, save up for travel and then defer my studies while I'm over in Europe having orgies with natural breasted Czech chicks.

Yeah, it would be difficult muzzle myself in their presence for the rest of my life. Definitely would have to move a considerable distance away from my relatives for it to work out, then be fairly ambiguous about my personal life.

I've been asked by a few muslims if I still believed in the religion. Despite them being friends, it stunned me that I was being so transparent. My fumbled responses werent exactly convincing either. I'm not sure whether my mum is completely oblivious or if she suspects something, though she has had enough examples for her to really question me on my beliefs and she has refrained from making doubtful comment. Before today I'd lean towards oblivious, now probably not...

That is dead on. udhu billahi min al shaitanir rajim!!!! They can't fathom someone deconverting. (I know I couldn't when I was a muslim)

My dad may accept it, my mum never, ever would. I thought my older brother might have doubts about Islam, but he recently moved to Saudi Arabia for work so....

What is Australia, like 3% muslim? I can't imagine what people go through in Islamic nations.

Yeah neoteric, shared housing is not too bad, I've been in refuges which is similar, 'cause you get your own room but have share everything else, and as long as everyone pulls their weight with chores etc... it's not too bad. My brother is in a shared house and he says it's great, the last place he was at the landlord was an arse so he found that really hard. I guess it partly depends on personalities, if you get on well with the others you're sharing with it's good but if you don't then it can be not-so-great.

There are books on the subject, you could get them from the library, just ask the staff and they'd be able to tell you. There are ads in the paper (pretty much all papers but usually the sunday paper has lots of ads for those looking to rent whether it's rental properties for shared or own housing).

Just make sure when you go to sign the papers that it's really clear as to what you'll be paying and for what.

Do you think you have a chance with your father, like maybe one day being able to be open with him about it, or would family pressure be too much for him to accept it?

With my parents I thought my mother would be more accepting of me, but 'cause of family pressure she just keeps the old tape running, "Do you realize what a shame you are to the family? Do you know what you've done to your father? You have disgraced our name! One day you'll realize and repent! Everyone asks and all we can say is that you're dead!" etc... etc... etc... lol

It's a shame 'bout your brother, maybe he did have doubts but you know how these things are, people have amazing powers at convincing themselves that they were wrong to doubt the deen and to strive forward with practicing something they deep down don't really subscribe to any more. You never know, he might still have doubts and his time in Saudi might have the opposite effect and make him doubt it more. *Crossing fingers*

Oh and wanted to say I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner, I'd just gotten sidetracked and hadn't realized that you'd posted again. Hope today is going well for you, you never know, you could have awesome Czekh chicks sometime in your future, just make sure you don't visit any shady hotels like that in Hostel 1 .

neoteric

I haven't seen my dad since he moved to Sana'a a few years ago. His approval is not something I yearn for, nor really ever think about.

It is really difficult to say how anyone in my family would take the news of me being an Atheist. My mum is very abiding of the religion, and that's really the main reason for my thinking she would be unwilling to accept me and my beliefs.

She asked me the big question on Sunday night. "Do you still believe in Islam?"

It really came out of the blue. She delivered it in a very comforting, paternal manner. It was very perplexing... why would such a devout Muslim ask such a paramount and potentially life altering question in such a way? It gave me a jolt of optimism, a sign that my options weren't simply Islam or banishment. Still, I couldn't see past a wolf in sheep's clothing - "Yeah, of course." (yeah I know, not a ringing endorsement)

She took a few seconds to absorb my response. "You will always be my son, no matter what happens nothing can change that." We exchange our first hug in months.

I took it to mean that I would always be her son on the condition I didn't renounce my faith. Why else would she preface a heartfelt statement with such a loaded question?

The reason I question my brother's faith is because we never, ever discussed Islam with one another growing up. Despite being able to recite the Quran almost flawlessly, he never displayed overt Islamism. He was also respectful to women.

jrgxm

When it finally came out as an adult that I'm an apostate (on the phone she told me she knew cause she'd heard my views from others), she was so sad, so hurt, I am a stigma to the family, have shamed my father's name, she told me I was dead to them and that I have hurt her deeply. It hurt knowing that I'm the cause of that pain, but there is nothing one can do, you can't believe something you don't believe.

Hi Da_Dude (and everyone, as this is my first post)

You don't have to think like this. It's *not* your fault that they're reacting like this. I have very similar feelings about how my wife feels, and how she will react when I finally tell her I don't consider myself a Muslim any more. I don't think our marriage will survive it. But that's kinda ok with ne (we'll see how I feel if/when it cones to that though). You've come to your conclusion, based on your experiences and your research. You've tried their way and its not for you. Have they even paused to look at things from your perspective? Have they considered that this shows they've raised an intelligent, rational and self respecting human being?

You've made your educated choice, and they've made their... well, their choice, too. Don't take the blame and the burden for their narrow minded views.

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And to everyone else, I'm still not 100% sure what I think, so I hope ou don't mind me lurking a little longer before I post a full intro!

Ps excuse the spelling errors - posting from a phone on the full site isn't easy :/