You keep on saying you think data is misleading (Why? Have you done your own laboratory tests?) but then you just selectively choose data to support your argument. It's tiresome propaganda.

All you have to do is post all the data from and all the sources and take an average of them if you really must but you're not even prepared to do that.

It's almost as if you're trying to convince yourself that the drink you drink has low caffeine when the reality is anything but low.

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My suspicion is that that many of the sources that specify 200+ mg of caffeine/bottle are taking their data from ConsumerLab.com. It is suspected that the Extra Strength version was tested in their analysis. Some sources, in a possible effort to demonize the product, provide that high CL data. If you average all those sources, of course they are going to come up with ~200 mg of caffeine.

Some time after the ConsumerLab.com data came out, FAI Materials Testing Laboratories came put the caffeine content at 157 mg in the regular 5-Hour, and 206 mg in its Extra Strength counterpart. The FAI data for the Extra Strength version looks suspiciously like the data that ConsumerLab.com came up with (supposedly for the regular version).

My bias is to go with the FAI data because it is consistent with what Living Essentials, the makers of 5-Hour Energy has stated. Their web site has always been a bit vague stating that the product "contains caffeine equivalent to a cup of the leading premium coffee". In the past, they have been forthcoming in providing the amount of caffeine in their product for consumers who have asked for it. Quite some time before other CL or FAI analyzed & published their data, I had sent an email inquiry to Living Essentials asking for the caffeine content of their product (they only had 1 version at the time). Their response that the caffeine content of a 1 oz serving was ~75-80 mg. This is consistent with the data that FAI later determined in their analysis (157 mg for nearly oz).

Regardless of which data you choose to believe, 1/2 bottle of 5-Hour Energy (the amount I recommended) will provide somewhere between 75 mg and 104 mg. Even if you consider that higher number, it is still quite a bit less than one of 2 cans of Relentless. According to the data, the latter provides 320 mg. I stand by my contention that it is far better to ingest 1/2 bottle of 5-Hour Energy than 1 or 2 cans of Relentless.

Jeez, you're obsessed. 5 hour energy has alot of caffeine in it. Get over it.

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And you are not? Is this really the best that you can do? Yes, I try to do my homework on foods and supplements that I ingest. No, a single serving of 5-Hour Energy does not have "alot of caffeine in it" as you insist. Even if you believe it has 100 mg, this is a fairly moderate amount compared to coffee and many high-sugar energy drinks.

And, as I've stated previously, there is more to the equation than just the caffeine content. Even on the instances where I've ingested a full bottle of 5-Hour at one sitting, I did not experience the jitters. A few times (quite a while back), I downed 200 mg of pure caffeine in supplement form. Again, no jitters. However, with as little as 1/2 cup of coffee, I have experienced the jitters when playing sports numerous times. It usually happens within 30 minutes of the onset of physical exertion.

And you are not? Is this really the best that you can do? Yes, I try to do my homework on foods and supplements that I ingest. No, a single serving of 5-Hour Energy does not have "alot of caffeine in it" as you insist. Even if you believe it has 100 mg, this is a fairly moderate amount compared to coffee and many high-sugar energy drinks.

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Independent assessments (ie not from the manufacturer) of 5 hour energy say the normal 2oz 'shot' sized version has 215mg caffeine.

The extra strength version has 242mg caffeine.

No wonder Power Player only drinks 1/2 of one. That tiny little 2oz shot blows your mind!

5 Hour Energy has absolutely no sugar in it.

How do you think its going to perk you up for '5 hours'?

It's the high amounts of caffeine that's perking you up.

And if indepedent consumer reports aren't sufficient...

THE ACTUAL MAKERS OF 5 HOUR ENERGY SAY THAT THERE IS 200MG OF CAFFEINE IN THE STANDARD VERSION

Funny how Living Essentials LLC pick the strongest available coffees to compare it to but it doesn't change the fact that they now admit that it has 200mg of caffeine in it. Obviously, their new 'openess' has nothing to do with them being subpoena'd by the FDA to disclose data or the FDA investigations into deaths associated with this type of drink.....

If you ask me, the previous approach of Living Essentials ie deliberately being vague about caffeine content was extremely unsatisfactory (and that's me being polite). It just led to people being confused, young kids glugging loads of this stuff (particularly when its in a tiny bottle), or people drinking it everyday - which they seem to encourage (whoohoo, great for their sales and profits). What they should have done is published the 200mg caffeine content from the get go and allowed consumers to make an informed choice. It really shouldn't have required the intervention of the FDA.

And why do Living Essentials put so much B12 in there? 8333% of the required daily amount? Your body can't use that amount and will just excrete it.

Independent assessments (ie not from the manufacturer) of 5 hour energy say the normal 2oz 'shot' sized version has 215mg caffeine.

The extra strength version has 242mg caffeine.

No wonder Power Player only drinks 1/2 of one...n

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It is interesting that you have mentioned that PP only drinks 1/2 bottle but did not acknowledge that this has been my recommendation all along. Not only did I mention this in post #3 of this thread, I have been saying the same thing for the past 6 years on this forum (I've actually been suggesting this to ppl since I first tried the product some 8 years ago). Even if the 215 mg/bottle is accurate, we are still talking about just a little bit more than 100 mg of caffeine for the portion that I have been recommending. You appear to be ignoring my recommendation on this and keep harping on the idea that a full bottle contains more than 150 mg of caffeine.

I discovered early on (some 8 years ago), that 1/2 bottle would satisfy my needs for 3-4 hours. Drinking more -- a full bottle (at one time) -- providing diminishing returns. I rarely ingest more than 1 oz in a day but on those occasions where I felt that I needed a lift for more than 3-4 hours, I would drink that 2nd half 3 hours or so after the first half. This practice usually kept me going for 5-6 hours.

... What they should have done is published the 200mg caffeine content from the get go and allowed consumers to make an informed choice. It really shouldn't have required the intervention of the FDA...

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5-Hour Energy does not need to provide sugar since most of us already have sufficient blood sugar levels (unless hypoglycemic), glycogen stored in liver and muscles and fat storage to provide us with energy sources. The caffeine and some of the other ingredients make us alert/focused and, possibly, facilitate access to our stored energy sources.

I cannot say for certain which ingredients, other than caffeine, produces the effects felt with products like 5-Hour Energy. However in my own experience, it is very evident that the 1 oz serving yields better results than 100-200 mg of No-Doz (pure caffeine?), coffee (with 100 mg or more of caffeine) or energy drinks that provide high levels of both sugar and caffeine.

While the current (standard 5-Hour Energy) product may very well contain 200 mg for a full bottle, you cannot assume that this has been has been the case for the 9+ years that the product has been around. The original formula was developed late in 2003 (and hit the market early in 2004). At that time, Red Bull and other energy drinks typically contained ~80 mg/serving. In the past decade, many energy drink manufacturers have been steadily increasing caffeine levels. It would appear the Living Essentials has decided to join this trend to remain competitive.

The formula for 5-Hour Energy has changed (been tweaked) several times since its inception. This is one of the reasons that different values have been measured for the amount of caffeine with this product. Quite a few other changes have been made to the formula. One of the major changes came late in 2007. Apparently Living Essentials was forced to change the formula. This change was noted on the 5-Hour Energy web site.

From an insider source, it was my understanding that the formula used prior to the change late in 2007 belonged to Stacker 2 (an NVE Pharmaceuticals brand). Probably due to the success of 5-Hour Energy, Stacker 2/NVE decided to use the formula themselves. Stacker 2 marketed the product as 6 Hour Power. The formulation used for 6 Hour Power was pretty much the same as the what 5-Hour Energy had been using prior to the change late in 2007. The caffeine levels listed for 6 Hour Power by several sources range from 125 mg to 150 mg per 2 oz bottle. This level is consistent with the values quoted to me by Living Essentials for 5-Hour Energy (in 2006, I believe). Here is a reference I made to that change 5 years ago.

And why the "aitch" do you feel compelled to make a case of this? In your OP you expressed concern about the amount of sugar and stimulants in 1-2 cans of Relentless. Was this an insincere query on your part? I presented you with an alternative that contains no sugar and only about 100 mg of caffeine but you appear unwilling to even consider it. Have you ever bothered to tried this? How about 1/2 bottle of 6 Hour Power (on an empty stomach)? It is cheaper and appears to provide less than 70 mg of caffeine and no sugar.

an alternative that contains no sugar and only about 100 mg of caffeine but you appear unwilling to even consider it.

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5 Hour Energy contains 200mg caffeine per 2oz 'shot' according to the makers. To say that it contains less if you drink less is a bit like saying coffee has less caffeine but only if you drink 1 teaspoon of it.

Are you serious? Are you drinking one or more bottles in a short time span? Do you get the jitters with coffee or No-Doz? Are you sensitive to niacinamide (unlikely) or phenylalanine (rare)? The makers warn of a niacin flush, but I do not believe that niacinamide produces such a flush.

Perhaps you have some other sensitivity. I get the jitters with a small amount of coffee (less than 1/2 cup) but have never experienced the jitters with either 5-Hour Energy or 6 Hour Power (even on those occasions when I ingest a whole 2 oz bottle).

5 Hour Energy contains 200mg caffeine per 2oz 'shot' according to the makers. To say that it contains less if you drink less is a bit like saying coffee has less caffeine but only if you drink 1 teaspoon of it.

Really!!! My suggestion is that you drink 1/2 bottle of one of the shots rather than 2 can of Relentless. The makers say to drink 1/2 bottle or less for a moderate effect or the the whole bottle for maximum effect. My experience is that 1/2 bottle with a decent warmup is all that is needed. Are you really not getting this message? No will power to drink only 1 oz???

When I say empty stomach, I am assuming that you have eaten something earlier in the day. As I indicated previously, I assume that you normally have adequate blood sugar levels and have glycogen stored in your liver and muscles. The L-Phenylalanine and possibly other amino acids present in the shot should have maximum effect with competing protein. If you want to eat something just prior to ingesting the energy shot, avoid protein -- go with some carbs & fats if needed. I find that coconut oil (or MCT oil) works quite well because, unlike most other fats, the medium chain fatty acids tend to burn like carbs rather than store as a fat.

As long as I'm aware of how much caffeine there is and what the potential health risks are, I'll just make a judgment call as to whether its best to stick to 1 can or go with 2.

More interested in the sugar issue now.

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With 50+ grams of sugar per can, I would think that this energy drink could have a very strong glycemic impact (glycemic load). It does not contain sufficient fat, fiber. protein or low glycemic carbs to temper the glycemic impact from the sugar.. The insulin response to this substantial sugar, could possibly leave your blood sugar levels diminished after the initial sugar spike. As you play (tennis), your blood sugar levels will diminish even further.

Unless you are drinking this with a straw, the high sugar content, along with the carbonation and acids (citric & other?), will also be detrimental to your dental health. You might want to consider the no-sugar version of Relentless or, better yet, a no-sugar energy shot. The latter will have very little, if any, diuretic effect. You should have a much reduced need to run to the bathroom to pee since your liquid intake would be quite a bit less.

^ The amount of sugar in the Relentless drinks is very confusing. I was unable to find Nutrition Facts images for these drinks and various sources appeared to provide misleading or erroneous data. Shape mag and several other sources have listed the sugar content as only 10.4 g (for a full can) yet put total carbs as less than this = 10 g. Not only does this appear to be wrong, it is an impossibility.

Various sources report nutrient levels for 100 mL, 250 mL or 500 mL (16.9 oz). After further investigation I have gleaned that the sugar content for 1 full can of various Relentless flavors appears to run from 51 g up to 58 g. This is still very high. The average for 2 cans just under 110 grams.

Really!!! My suggestion is that you drink 1/2 bottle of one of the shots rather than 2 can of Relentless. The makers say to drink 1/2 bottle or less for a moderate effect or the the whole bottle for maximum effect. My experience is that 1/2 bottle with a decent warmup is all that is needed. Are you really not getting this message? No will power to drink only 1 oz???

When I say empty stomach, I am assuming that you have eaten something earlier in the day. As I indicated previously, I assume that you normally have adequate blood sugar levels and have glycogen stored in your liver and muscles. The L-Phenylalanine and possibly other amino acids present in the shot should have maximum effect with competing protein. If you want to eat something just prior to ingesting the energy shot, avoid protein -- go with some carbs & fats if needed. I find that coconut oil (or MCT oil) works quite well because, unlike most other fats, the medium chain fatty acids tend to burn like carbs rather than store as a fat.

No, I saw the attempt. But he did indicate jitters with the energy shots. Just sayin'.

Haven't you already answered your own Q? You have insisted that 200 mg for an energy shot is too high yet 320 mg from Relentless might not be? I don't get it.

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Besides you not adressing Torres' joke reference until your follow up post, that you focused on the 'jittery' in my post confirms you didn't get it (your overweening 'attempt' comment notwithstanding). ;-)

It was the HOURS (6-hr, 5-hr, 4-hr ... in commercial references) that tied it together...a descending numerical pattern being the link with the out-of-left-field 'erection' reference that sort of pulled the proverbial (and facetious) kitchen sink into the mix. Hmmm, maybe if I should've added "3-hour Dry Cleaners, 2-hour Auto Glass and 1-hour Photo" ....then you might've gotten it?

Gotta say the 5 hour energy came through again. Played 4 hours of hungover tennis (just drank water, nothing prior) and came home with all intentions to stay in, as I was SPENT. Buddies started texting, wanting to rage, so I slammed a 5 hour, ate some chicken and broccoli and partied until the wee hours of the night.

Feel good today too..I keep the wild nights to the weekends mainly. But it IS cinco de mayo....another trip to 7-11 may be in order..haha.

... Besides you not adressing Torres' joke reference until your follow up post, that you focused on the 'jittery' in my post confirms you didn't get it (your overweening 'attempt' comment notwithstanding).

It was the HOURS (6-hr, 5-hr, 4-hr ... in commercial references) that tied it together...a descending numerical pattern being the link with the out-of-left-field 'erection' reference that sort of pulled the proverbial (and facetious) kitchen sink into the mix. Hmmm, maybe if I should've added "3-hour Dry Cleaners, 2-hour Auto Glass and 1-hour Photo" ....then you might've gotten it?

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What I really find entertaining is that you felt it was necessary to explain your joke. It was not really that cryptic at all. No, the numerical pattern did not get past me at all. While I found your post amusing, my first thought was that I could take your post one of 2 ways.

On one hand, the post could be intended not be be taken seriously at all. OTOH, it could be that you were making a statement of fact/opinion with a bit of humor tossed in. I will sometimes do the latter on occasion so I was not certain of your intent.

It was the use of "jittery" (w/o the quotes) that made the intent unclear. While many use the 6 Hour and 5-Hour products because they do not cause the jitters, there is often someone who comes along and claims that they do get the jitters from these products. It sometimes turns out that these ppl down 2 bottles at one sitting or drink 1 full bottle after drinking 1 or 2 cups of coffee.

Well anyway, having experimented with the one to two cans of Relentless before/during matches this week, as a regular thing I don't think its a good idea. I find that's there's simply too much of a weird spike, up/down energy crash going on, increase in jitteriness (with 2 cans) and a feeling of being 'flat' several hours afterwards as well as sleep problems if the match is late in the day. Just too much caffeine and other stimulants going on.

Far better to try and prepare properly, ensure a good nights sleep beforehand, though ideal prep is not always the easiest.

I'm going back to my normal routine of food 2 hours before, hydration <1 hour before, one expresso beforehand if needed, and then energy drink / orange cordial with a small amount of table salt during the match. At the end of the day is only a tennis match, and if having rough night before results in reduced perfomance, then so be it rather than regularly taking this type of stimulant in highish amounts.

Thanks for the comments everyone - always useful to hear different points of view on this sort of thing.