And even if they are somehow involved and the shooter converted to Islam six months ago as they claim (which I doubt) he did so with this attack in mind. This was a crime he wanted to commit. If ISIS somehow provided him with some crazed justification for it in his mind, he was still already radicalized six months ago. He wanted to murder people and he went looking for a reason to do so.

Interesting.

I didn't read through the tweets and I'm unlikely to, as I'm not on twitter and find it a ridiculous medium in which to convey larger chunks of information.

The shooter appears to have planned this for years. If ISIS had anything to do with this, it was not in the motive or even the means. Was he just looking for information? Logistical support? Kindred disaffected spirits??

I suppose if he needed money (and it does sound like this probably cost him a lot), then ISIS would be good people to tap, and his belief system would probably be irrelevant to ISIS. How one goes about contacting ISIS to get money out of them is beyond me, but obviously there are ways. Er, maybe they simply have websites with contact email addresses, I dunno.

The shooter was a millionaire. He didn't need the money.

Were his current financials released? Just because he was also a high stakes gambler, so it's not hard for someone like that to get cash poor real fast. And if he started just selling everything off maybe that would raise red flags, not least of all with his girlfriend. Plus he clearly had to keep the $100K he sent to the Philippines.

I'm having a little trouble believing that his girlfriend was completely oblivious to a single shred of anything that would suggest his motives btw. I call bullshit, and even if it is true, jesus, what a miserable, weird fucking relationship that must have been.

I think his brother knew some things too or at least had to have some suspicions. The more I read about the shooter the more I think there is no way someone close to him had no idea what he was planning.

And even if they are somehow involved and the shooter converted to Islam six months ago as they claim (which I doubt) he did so with this attack in mind. This was a crime he wanted to commit. If ISIS somehow provided him with some crazed justification for it in his mind, he was still already radicalized six months ago. He wanted to murder people and he went looking for a reason to do so.

Interesting.

I didn't read through the tweets and I'm unlikely to, as I'm not on twitter and find it a ridiculous medium in which to convey larger chunks of information.

The shooter appears to have planned this for years. If ISIS had anything to do with this, it was not in the motive or even the means. Was he just looking for information? Logistical support? Kindred disaffected spirits??

I suppose if he needed money (and it does sound like this probably cost him a lot), then ISIS would be good people to tap, and his belief system would probably be irrelevant to ISIS. How one goes about contacting ISIS to get money out of them is beyond me, but obviously there are ways. Er, maybe they simply have websites with contact email addresses, I dunno.

The shooter was a millionaire. He didn't need the money.

Were his current financials released? Just because he was also a high stakes gambler, so it's not hard for someone like that to get cash poor real fast. And if he started just selling everything off maybe that would raise red flags, not least of all with his girlfriend. Plus he clearly had to keep the $100K he sent to the Philippines.

I'm having a little trouble believing that his girlfriend was completely oblivious to a single shred of anything that would suggest his motives btw. I call bullshit, and even if it is true, jesus, what a miserable, weird fucking relationship that must have been.

I think his brother knew some things too or at least had to have some suspicions. The more I read about the shooter the more I think there is no way someone close to him had no idea what he was planning.

Who knows, although it's totally feasible for a brother to not know anything. Sounds to me like they had next to nothing to do with one another for years, which isn't uncommon for family, so to me, that is totally believable. Doesn't sound to me like his brother was "someone close to him" at all. But the GF fucking lived with the guy. That I can't buy.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata

we need to stop assuming people close to him knew something was up. imagine people who commit suicide. look at Chester Bennington and Chris Cornell. no one close to either of these guys had a fucking clue what they were about to do. and all relationships are different. there is every possibility the shooter had a relationship that wasn't of the norm. I mean, seriously, he "sent her" to the Philippines, and she just went along with it? Sounds like, from what I've read, he was pretty controlling and she was the type that didn't ask questions. She assumed he was dumping her. Sounds like an odd relationship, but again, that doesn't means she knew shit. Doubtful she knew a damn thing.

the brother was shocked, but he also didn't even live in the same state as the guy. they clearly weren't close. I mean, my brother could do something like this and I wouldn't have had the faintest idea that it was coming. We live in the same city, but only talk and see each other at family functions, a few times a year.

it's one thing to look for answers, but a whole other deal to be blaming those close to him for not acting on suspicions they probably had no reason to have.

we need to stop assuming people close to him knew something was up. imagine people who commit suicide. look at Chester Bennington and Chris Cornell. no one close to either of these guys had a fucking clue what they were about to do. and all relationships are different. there is every possibility the shooter had a relationship that wasn't of the norm. I mean, seriously, he "sent her" to the Philippines, and she just went along with it? Sounds like, from what I've read, he was pretty controlling and she was the type that didn't ask questions. She assumed he was dumping her. Sounds like an odd relationship, but again, that doesn't means she knew shit. Doubtful she knew a damn thing.

the brother was shocked, but he also didn't even live in the same state as the guy. they clearly weren't close. I mean, my brother could do something like this and I wouldn't have had the faintest idea that it was coming. We live in the same city, but only talk and see each other at family functions, a few times a year.

it's one thing to look for answers, but a whole other deal to be blaming those close to him for not acting on suspicions they probably had no reason to have.

Agreed. I actually was thinking earlier how the rumors were starting to get as bad as Cornell's death guesses. It's like we as humans have some fascination with speculating the most obscure shit.

And even if they are somehow involved and the shooter converted to Islam six months ago as they claim (which I doubt) he did so with this attack in mind. This was a crime he wanted to commit. If ISIS somehow provided him with some crazed justification for it in his mind, he was still already radicalized six months ago. He wanted to murder people and he went looking for a reason to do so.

And even if they are somehow involved and the shooter converted to Islam six months ago as they claim (which I doubt) he did so with this attack in mind. This was a crime he wanted to commit. If ISIS somehow provided him with some crazed justification for it in his mind, he was still already radicalized six months ago. He wanted to murder people and he went looking for a reason to do so.

the suicide kinda rules this out.

How so? Suicide has been the modus operandi for ISIS.

I think ISIS had nothing to do with this shitwad's event, but not because the shit coward committed suicide versus look at other human beings after his disgrace.

And even if they are somehow involved and the shooter converted to Islam six months ago as they claim (which I doubt) he did so with this attack in mind. This was a crime he wanted to commit. If ISIS somehow provided him with some crazed justification for it in his mind, he was still already radicalized six months ago. He wanted to murder people and he went looking for a reason to do so.

the suicide kinda rules this out.

How so? Suicide has been the modus operandi for ISIS.

I think ISIS had nothing to do with this shitwad's event, but not because the shit coward committed suicide versus look at other human beings after his disgrace.

I had some fuckin clown on you tube message me about c.c. and how its murder and a conspiracy. Ffs i had found myself angry and getting very annoyed at this person.seriously what is the failure to except suicide. Its a massive killer of mainly men. Because people have money/wife/kids/job. Some sad folk think you are immune to mental health issues. ..... ignorance is a big part of all these events. Guns.murders. conspiracy. Stories that are assuming things. I judt despair most of the time. We probably all are only a stones throw away from some kind of mental breakdown. I know i am bang in the middle of it. I used to have a good job good wage. Wife 3 beautiful intelligent children. Friends, hobbies go to gigs. Travel Europe watching this wonderful band. Connections with many fellow fans. Now its in the main all gone. When chris cornell died i was in a place where i could visualise my own suicide it was so real to me that anyday or time could present a "right time" or way or place. Im alive still but i guess im trying to say the vast majority of people are closer than they ever know to total breakdown and system failure than thankfully they know. Peace and love to you all

I had some fuckin clown on you tube message me about c.c. and how its murder and a conspiracy. Ffs i had found myself angry and getting very annoyed at this person.seriously what is the failure to except suicide. Its a massive killer of mainly men. Because people have money/wife/kids/job. Some sad folk think you are immune to mental health issues. ..... ignorance is a big part of all these events. Guns.murders. conspiracy. Stories that are assuming things. I judt despair most of the time. We probably all are only a stones throw away from some kind of mental breakdown. I know i am bang in the middle of it. I used to have a good job good wage. Wife 3 beautiful intelligent children. Friends, hobbies go to gigs. Travel Europe watching this wonderful band. Connections with many fellow fans. Now its in the main all gone. When chris cornell died i was in a place where i could visualise my own suicide it was so real to me that anyday or time could present a "right time" or way or place. Im alive still but i guess im trying to say the vast majority of people are closer than they ever know to total breakdown and system failure than thankfully they know. Peace and love to you all

It was just this afternoon that I was thinking about my theory that, because we live in such tumultuous times the average person would almost have to be a robot or totally out of touch with their senses and emotions to not be at least a little mentally damaged. I know I am-- depression, anxiety and at times neurotic. There is a stigma in our culture about such things but a lot of that is just undo fear-based reaction or even denial of ones own problems. How can one not be a bit disturbed these days? But here's the thing- I don't find that abnormal or "bad".

The challenge to me is to learn good coping skills. In my 30's and 40's I was cruising through life. Wife, house, management position, money to burn. But when things changed and I crashed badly. I did not have the right coping skill and eventually I came very close to dying from ingesting about 100 tabs of Xanax and half a pint of whiskey. Somebody found me and by sheer luck, here I am. That incident was followed by 4 years of living in limbo on the outskirts of hell and I almost went down again during that time. I finally got through that mess with a combination of luck, some good suggestions and a lot of determination. I started by getting counseling (and eventually being the assistant in that college program teaching counseling skills), doing volunteer work, taking classes, getting back to working and rebuilding my life.

I don't think I'm unusual. I think I had luck but also determination and goals. I had a little help from some friends but mostly I was fortunate to have counseling that taught me that the ONLY way I would get my life back was by wanting it and by doing the work. This is true with anything. Smokers only quite when they really want it and do the work. Same with alcoholics. Same with people like me with neurosis, clinical anxiety and depression. The work never stops and the rewards vary but the biggest come from looking for good thing in life that exist despite the evil and the horrors and finding some way to make a useful contribution to the world , no matter how small.

So all that to say this- it's past due time to remove the stigma of mental illness. I'm also strongly of the belief that we need more and better and affordable counselors- people who understand the type of client centered therapy Carl Rogers developed. The best goal of good counseling is to move a person needing help to taking action. Delving into a persons past and convincing a client to just talk and talk and talk (we used to call that "Hollywood counseling) rarely helps in the long run.

Most importantly right here and now is to sincerely wish you well, lastexitlondon. It takes courage to talk about your struggles. I hope things turn around for you. One thing for sure, you're in a good place here. This band and these people here are pretty awesome.

Thank you brainlux. Truly i was thinking i seem to agree with your opinions on these boards. And the fact that you reply to what i wrote reinforces this. We are from a similar path and life experience and without that we could be different or ignorant but really our paths have led to a place of understanding and no stigma amongst other sufferers. Infact im off to a group i now attend to do exactly what you recommend as a way forward. I have been concious and active for 10 years getting councilling and help. I guess how this is all relevant to the thread is that at some point these people who shoot people could take responsibility for their feelings or anxiety or depression and in a healthy way reach out but society doesn't allow men ,from my experience to reach out to each other or work colleagues. I was a bricklayer. Imagine the environment. Not a chance i could be seen to cry or be scared. Or fear. "Thats gay" is the typical response. Thats is a massive part of this massacre issue.

Thank you brainlux. Truly i was thinking i seem to agree with your opinions on these boards. And the fact that you reply to what i wrote reinforces this. We are from a similar path and life experience and without that we could be different or ignorant but really our paths have led to a place of understanding and no stigma amongst other sufferers. Infact im off to a group i now attend to do exactly what you recommend as a way forward. I have been concious and active for 10 years getting councilling and help. I guess how this is all relevant to the thread is that at some point these people who shoot people could take responsibility for their feelings or anxiety or depression and in a healthy way reach out but society doesn't allow men ,from my experience to reach out to each other or work colleagues. I was a bricklayer. Imagine the environment. Not a chance i could be seen to cry or be scared. Or fear. "Thats gay" is the typical response. Thats is a massive part of this massacre issue.

Nicely said, lastexitlondon. I could see the parallels in our paths as well. And you're so right-- its tough in our cultures for men to show feelings or admit to need some help or having feelings. I've had jobs like that too where no way do you show emotion, let alone cry. I hope that attitude is changing. I think it is somewhat.

Good luck with your group! You are courageous and wise to seek help. Well done!

It's not easy for women either especially in the workplace. can't be seen as overly sensitive, too emotional or weak. But can't be too strong either because some people's perception is a cold bitch. It's sad. You both seem to be nice decent guys. Hang in there.

It's not easy for women either especially in the workplace. can't be seen as overly sensitive, too emotional or weak. But can't be too strong either because some people's perception is a cold bitch. It's sad. You both seem to be nice decent guys. Hang in there.

Be the cold bitch lolYou should be 100% confident that anyone who interprets your strength as such is a weak individual who is jealous of your strength.That goes double for the men who interpret it that way.

And even if they are somehow involved and the shooter converted to Islam six months ago as they claim (which I doubt) he did so with this attack in mind. This was a crime he wanted to commit. If ISIS somehow provided him with some crazed justification for it in his mind, he was still already radicalized six months ago. He wanted to murder people and he went looking for a reason to do so.

the suicide kinda rules this out.

How so? Suicide has been the modus operandi for ISIS.

I think ISIS had nothing to do with this shitwad's event, but not because the shit coward committed suicide versus look at other human beings after his disgrace.

not by gunshot. abomination in islam

suicide bombing yes in that ideology, considered martyrdom.

but just plain vanilla suicide? simply to avoid accountability? nope.

only he knew why. this was about control.

There is definitely a difference in the 'suicides'- one as a mechanism to use the individual's planned death as a weapon... the other to cowardly escape the shame, guilt and other repercussions from an obscene act (however... as the culminating moment in an act where many 'infidels' were murdered).

I just wonder if Islam formally accounts for the differences? From what I have come to understand, Allah is the ultimate judge and there is latitude afforded to people in some cases.

Again... I also feel ISIS had nothing to do with this madman's madness.

Definitely not reading through this entire thread, but I saw this morning that Fenway Park was one location he scouted out. I know PJ had two shows there last year. Not saying that was one thing he scouted out as the Red Sox play there 82 games but kind of scary nonetheless.

anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?

“I used to spend a lot of time in this room...back when it was a shit hole
and I was a shit head.”

big·otˈbiɡət/ noun: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

big·ot·ryˈbiɡətrē/ noun: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?

I hope not. Shit like that should not ever be released to the Public. I can see it being shown to law enforcement and government agencies, but like Columbine or any other shooting, there's no reason to release it. It serves no purpose and may encourage copy cat behavior more than the incident itself does.

anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?

I hope not. Shit like that should not ever be released to the Public. I can see it being shown to law enforcement and government agencies, but like Columbine or any other shooting, there's no reason to release it. It serves no purpose and may encourage copy cat behavior more than the incident itself does.

whats been reported is these cameras were used as surveillance so he knew who was coming up behind him and down the hall.

And even if they are somehow involved and the shooter converted to Islam six months ago as they claim (which I doubt) he did so with this attack in mind. This was a crime he wanted to commit. If ISIS somehow provided him with some crazed justification for it in his mind, he was still already radicalized six months ago. He wanted to murder people and he went looking for a reason to do so.

the suicide kinda rules this out.

How so? Suicide has been the modus operandi for ISIS.

I think ISIS had nothing to do with this shitwad's event, but not because the shit coward committed suicide versus look at other human beings after his disgrace.

not by gunshot. abomination in islam

suicide bombing yes in that ideology, considered martyrdom.

but just plain vanilla suicide? simply to avoid accountability? nope.

only he knew why. this was about control.

I'm far from convinced ISIS had anything to do with it. But I don't think the suicide rules it out. Would you really put it passed ISIS to encourage/train/fund/whatever an individual to complete an attack like this and not teach their theology? Seems very possible to me.

They seem to have uncovered zero evidence that ISIS was involved (other than them claiming it), but just saying suicide wouldn't be a factor in ruling it out for me.

anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?

I hope not. Shit like that should not ever be released to the Public. I can see it being shown to law enforcement and government agencies, but like Columbine or any other shooting, there's no reason to release it. It serves no purpose and may encourage copy cat behavior more than the incident itself does.

whats been reported is these cameras were used as surveillance so he knew who was coming up behind him and down the hall.

jc seems to suggest he was taping what he was doing.

either way, no, none of it should ever be released.

I could see releasing some of the video (if any exists) to disassemble any notion or arguments of conspiracies if needs be. They may also be used for training law enforcement personnel or security personnel. I do see the hesitation, though, as these videos have essentially become a type of entertainment...which, in my opinion, is a factor in what causes similar incidents in the first place :(

It has been reported that the sicko “intended to escape” and most likely had help from others. Where those conclusions have been drawn from are going to be vague to anyone not directly involved with the investigation. If true, though, that suggests that this is not an isolated situation where some random madman just “snapped”. The fact that he had scouted several other locations also supports the theory of a greater agenda. The pieces are starting to come together and in a scary way. The information being released so far suggests something larger at play...Know your exits and be aware of your surroundings people. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-survive-police

anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?

I hope not. Shit like that should not ever be released to the Public. I can see it being shown to law enforcement and government agencies, but like Columbine or any other shooting, there's no reason to release it. It serves no purpose and may encourage copy cat behavior more than the incident itself does.

whats been reported is these cameras were used as surveillance so he knew who was coming up behind him and down the hall.

jc seems to suggest he was taping what he was doing.

either way, no, none of it should ever be released.

I could see releasing some of the video (if any exists) to disassemble any notion or arguments of conspiracies if needs be. They may also be used for training law enforcement personnel or security personnel. I do see the hesitation, though, as these videos have essentially become a type of entertainment...which, in my opinion, is a factor in what causes similar incidents in the first place :(

No amount of information ever convinces conspiracy theorists; they would just argue that the video was altered or didn't capture everything of importance. I see no valid reason for such videos to be released to the public and lots of reasons not to. Evenly tightly controlled access for training law enforcement will inevitably be abused at some point, but in that case the pros probably outweigh the cons.

anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?

I hope not. Shit like that should not ever be released to the Public. I can see it being shown to law enforcement and government agencies, but like Columbine or any other shooting, there's no reason to release it. It serves no purpose and may encourage copy cat behavior more than the incident itself does.

whats been reported is these cameras were used as surveillance so he knew who was coming up behind him and down the hall.

jc seems to suggest he was taping what he was doing.

either way, no, none of it should ever be released.

I could see releasing some of the video (if any exists) to disassemble any notion or arguments of conspiracies if needs be. They may also be used for training law enforcement personnel or security personnel. I do see the hesitation, though, as these videos have essentially become a type of entertainment...which, in my opinion, is a factor in what causes similar incidents in the first place :(

No amount of information ever convinces conspiracy theorists; they would just argue that the video was altered or didn't capture everything of importance. I see no valid reason for such videos to be released to the public and lots of reasons not to. Evenly tightly controlled access for training law enforcement will inevitably be abused at some point, but in that case the pros probably outweigh the cons.

Your right there, once some conspiracy theorists get something stuck in their head, there is often nothing that will sway them. However, it would invalidate their theories to anyone else that likes to be informed. I guess it would just depend on the content of the tapes as well. For example, if he pledged allegiance to some crazy fringe group on the video, then releasing it may help in the delegitimization and of said group and would raise awareness for the public. I’m not 100% sure they should or should not be released at this point. I guess that’s the point that I’m trying to get to, lol

It has been reported that the sicko “intended to escape” and most likely had help from others. Where those conclusions have been drawn from are going to be vague to anyone not directly involved with the investigation. If true, though, that suggests that this is not an isolated situation where some random madman just “snapped”. The fact that he had scouted several other locations also supports the theory of a greater agenda. The pieces are starting to come together and in a scary way. The information being released so far suggests something larger at play...Know your exits and be aware of your surroundings people. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-survive-police

So basically, be in fear for any large outdoor event. The NY marathon and Macy's Parade will need heavy security this year in that case.