“Anthroposophy’s entire spiritual doctrine is founded on the root race theory, attatching qualities, good or bad, to different races and skin colours, and ranking them accordingly; this explains how the divine cosmic plan unfolds. It’s hardly surprising there is so much covert reticence surrounding it. And these are not ideas stuck in the past, of a man “speaking of his time”. These are themes in current debate, deliberated over by anthroposophists - teachers in Steiner Waldorf schools - who discuss the cosmic significance of the Aryan race and its task to lead into the spiritual future, or whether dividing humans into separate races, and arranging them in groups of “higher” or “lower racial forms”, is actually “racist”. It’s going on now.”

So perhaps not so far apart after all.....!

Bluemoon

This is a regular controversy on forums to do with education and Steiner. I know Steiner specifically forbade the teaching of anthroposophy to children and they don't learn about it or teach it in Steiner schools. It is a black mark against Steiner and Anthroposophy as far as I'm concerned but the atmosphere in Steiner schools that I'm familiar with couldn't be more different than that quote would imply. They do learn a gentle version of Christianity in Steiner schools.

In Sydney there is some student traffic between John Colet School and Kamaroi Rudolf Steiner School as they are in the same suburb and both are seen as 'alternative' educational options for those who are searching.

I don't know if Anthroposophy and Gurdjieff would make comfortable bedfellows (I doubt it) but if a coalition was on the cards, no-one could muddy the waters better than the leaders of the SOP/SOPP/SES/ERT etc, etc, etc.

I think it's the same here in Dublin that parents who are interested in 'alternative' education models like Steiner end up sending their kids to John Scottus because there is no Steiner primary in Dublin currently and John Scottus sounds a bit like it with the emphasis on love etc. In fact I was one of those parents who chose it on that basis. It never occurred to me that 'love' and 'physical violence against children' could be seen as compatible, as to me, love, precludes violence of any kind.

The two systems are polar opposites as far as I've experienced both. One very notable difference is in the case of children's reports home. When I received my 4 year old son's first report, it was a very sad occasion. It was written by X, and as indicative of an attitude to pedagogy, it was a disgrace. A few lines thrown on the page without much thought, at least I would hope not much thought went into it as it was cold, functional as un-child-centred as you could imagine. I still have it and can redact the name and post it if anyone doesn't believe me. The most horrible example of sub-par adminstrative/functional-writing and it was my son's first ever report from school. The contrast with my friend who received a pages-long, warm, beautiful, nuanced story of her child's progress throughout the year from her child's Steiner teacher, couldn't have been more striking.

To me, Steiner teachers embody and walk the walk about what they believe. The SES teachers that I experienced had the talk alright, but didn't 'get it' at all at an embodied, living it, level. I think it's the rejection of feeling and emotion in the SES philosophy that makes it impossible for practitioners to go deeper and know love fully. Sad for them, really*

*more than a bit presumptious of me to say this although I think there is something in it. I emphasise I can only speak from my experience of SESers I met or heard talk and I can't pretend to having been impressed by them. Found it all a bit superficial and 'by rote', mouth is smiling, eyes are glassy, nice until you challenge and then you get shown the teeth (like a dog growling) - that was my experience.

Last edited by ConcernedMum on Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

I know Steiner specifically forbade the teaching of anthroposophy to children and they don't learn about it or teach it in Steiner schools.

That's good news Concernedmum, thanks. I hope you are right, there is all sorts of info around about Steiner but I am not familiar with it much at all. All that superhuman Aryan and caste stuff gives me the heebiejeebies!

I have experienced both. I went to an SES school as a child and I sent my little boy to a Steiner school, also at age 4. I do not think they are polar opposites and I am not surprised at all to see links between ERT and Steiner. What Concerned Mum said about SES and the smiling mouth and glassy eyes, followed by snapping teeth when you start to ask questions, was exactly my experience of Steiner school. Anthroposophy, which is supposedly not mentioned by name in of any of the lessons, IS every aspect of every lesson and every moment of your child's time in the school. If you look at the curriculum for the teacher training to become a Steiner teacher, they learn very little apart from Anthroposophy and the strange beliefs that roamed around Steiner's mind when he was alledgedly clairvoyantly channeling St Michael's orders on how to teach children. The freedom you mention, on the face of it, appears to be opposite to the straight jacketed discipline we had at St James', but there is a sinister control far stronger than school uniform and seated classrooms, that goes on in Steiner school. I can't explain it but I felt it. They most certainly encourage you to remove the normal influences of society from the child. Including mixing with outsider children or teachers, which some people have complained of SES doing (although that was not my experience of SES). My son did not fit the mould and they were glad to see the back of him.When I started to learn more about Steiner school I felt it was worse and more secretive than SES about it's true motives. I never got a school report. I was not able to find out what was going on with my little boy at all. It felt like they were keeping something from me, but all the while with soft voices, glassy eyes and smiling mouths.

It sounds sinister, bluegreen. I’ve looked up Rudolf Steiner and he puts me in mind of Oskar Bernhardt, from around the same time and a similar part of the world, who founded a similar cult called ‘In the light of truth: the grail message’. He later styled himself Abd-ru-shin ( the son of light) as he came to believe himself an emissary of ‘the light’. The ideas are the same: reincarnation, karma, astrology, the occult, homeopathy, the ‘high white races’ and the ‘low negro races’, belief in gnomes and fairies (I think I read that about Rudolf Steiner, that he believed gnomes existed). All these movements seem to have strong similarities, dabbling in Eastern mysticism among other things. Gurdjieff also was from around that time of course. There must have been something in the Eastern European water I think.

In my view these philosophies (including that of the SES) are not for basing the education of children on. If it appeals to you as an adult, then by all means get involved if you so desire. As an instrument of education for children? No. I wonder how many parents actually realise what’s going on; that their children are being subtly indoctrinated into alien, even weird, concepts. I suspect that, as with the SES, without the background knowledge of the organisation, you may not work it out.

Very sorry to hear that Bluegreen, and apologies, because now that you posted that, I remember we had some conversation about that here before.

When I hear your story, I can understand parents who say, well my child is happy in 'x' SES school, and who can't relate to the bad things they hear about SES schools on this forum. But that's not good enough really (though I understand not moving a child if the child is settled and happy). That's awful you didn't get a report - it is a hugely important link between the parent and the school. Which was why I found the report from John Scottus so disappointing - they clearly hadn't a clue who my son was (his teacher in his new school 'got him' within a very short time - 4/5 year olds aren't that complicated!). I did see my friend's children's reports from the Steiner they went to and what I'm saying is true - for their teacher, in their school.

That is very disappointing to hear about your and your son's experience. I know Steiner schools do differ depending on the school but that's no excuse and I had no idea that anthroposophy is so much part of the teacher training. From my perspective, it is interesting because I know of some 'good' experiences, I find it too easy to discount internet controversy about steiner schools (which I will no longer do) - even though I know we conversed before (which I won't forget again). I'm sure the same see-what-you-want-to-see thinking allows SES supporters to discount what is written here about the SES. Thanks for sharing that, that is deplorable.

Yes CM I remember talking with you about it back then. Thanks for your reply. I think I would have got a report if he had stayed long enough. Our Steiner school is state funded and so they have to comply with all sorts of things that others do not. (And I did at one time wonder if this would be their undoing). I also know of people who are successful products of Steiner school education and many parents who are happy with it for their kids now. I don't think they know about the underlying stuff when they get into it, and then there is this need to belong. Like it's one big family (cult) of special chosen people who have recognised the problems with mainstream education (exams etc) and been clever enough to protect their kids from that and all the corruptions of modern society. There is a feeling of competition amongst the adults to be more 'steinery' than each other. Like you start making your own bread and then you feel that u ought not to use the breadmaker and then you ought to only use organic flour and then "oh you use wheat flour? my homeopath says that spelt flour is better for the metabolism" blah blah.Our problem was that my son was not really fitting in and I couldn't get to the bottom of what that meant. He was biting the teacher (twice) which he has never done before or since and I needed to know the events that occured before and as a result of the bitings to help them to understand why it was happening to avoid doing it again. I think she was restraining him on her lap but it was not clear. What was clear is that it was none of my business. More and more strange and uncomfortable messages and feelings kept coming through to me and my husband and when we found all the internet criticisms, it explained so much. I see that people can let their imaginations run a bit crazy and their memories become a bit embellished and you have to read it all with an open mind. But so much of it rang true. The stuff we learnt about Rudolph Steiner's beliefs were quotes from his books. Not biased opinions and we were horrified. One line he wrote was "parents are irrelevent". That said it all and it said enough. We took him out. We felt duty bound to alert other parents and direct them to the waldorf critics website but they didn't want to take the time or they had already been warned about it's destructive lies. I have 2 friends whose children are being treated very poorly in my opinion (and theirs) by the school and they slag it and various teachers off all the time. But they don't seem to consider the possibility of removing their child from this toxic situation. I am perplexed but I think their fear of mainstream schools is so powerful and irrational because that notion gets constantly fed when you are part of it. I was anti SATs and all exams before my son started school and now he is in a lovely lovely village school who really know him and love him and I am happy. But I do not want him doing SATs to boost school stats in league tables at the expense of learning new material for his personal benefit and I will look into what alternatives are available. They tailor things to individual children's needs far more than the Steiner did. Ive wandered right off the point. Which was that they were very covert about their ulterior motives for my childs education and his soul. I think Steiner school is ok for Anthroposophists but the fact they say that they don't teach anthroposophy to the kids is a deception. The way the teacher moves and talks. The things they say and don't say. The myths and legends in place of history. Everything they do teach is based in and because of Anthroposophy. Steiner wanted to breed the next generation of Anthroposophists that's why he began the waldorf school. The stuff you think your getting into it about is all the palatable stuff that everyone thinks they know about Steiner schools. And yes Jo Anne it sounds very similar to Oskar Bernhardt. Thanks for your replies. Bluegreen

The School of Practical Philosophy is running a publicly advertised (on their website) Part 2 course at John Colet School during school hours. Is it really ok for the SOPP to run commercial activities "unrelated" to the (day) school during term time, on the school grounds, while the children are there? What do the authorities and parents have to say about "outsiders" entering the school? Do they even know?

I would like to thank everyone here who posted on this subject. I have not enrolled my child in john colet school but am unhappy that a friend of mine has enrolled her son despite my concerns which i expressedto her. I think john colet is forcefully marketing themselves as a school for gifted children and I am very concerned. Anyway, thanks again to evryone here who made me aware of something I had no idea about.

Hi Jasmine,All you can do for your friend now, is be there for her if the shine ever wears off. You are right, the leadership at John Colet have aggressively marketed themselves to the Gifted Community for at least the last 4/5years. I will PM you.Just Wondering

Thanks for posting the news about the fire at the John Colet School , Blissfully Sleeping ( wish I could sleep blissfully, I still seem to need an extra glass of wine to do so!!). I held back from a reactive post, because my initial thought was " Hope no-one was hurt or injured, but maybe what goes around came around. " My reactive thought is still the same though, so I hope the forum will not mind me posting it. Looks a bit like their builders cocked up. Much like the SES and their meditation - from what I understand meditation needs to be properly closed down, otherwise people remain in a vulnerable "open" state. That was the root of the pause, practice, and meditation, it being the SES way into (some, maybe not all) people's minds, bodies, and spirits.The practices were never closed down. It is what now is known as mind control, brainwashing et al, but very difficult to prove, much less hold them to account in any real way. "Undue Influence" is the closest that the courts have come.If anyone can remember the routine, that is how their control starts. And glassy eyes can result. Even us escapees probably had glassy eyes at some point, when we were under the influence. Some people and children are (unknowingly) more open than others to the tactics they employ, and often pay the price as a result, it would seem. Me included.