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Knicks 121, Timberwolves 114

A win’s a win, no matter how ugly it is. The Knicks held off a Timberwolves team that couldn’t miss in the first half. Lead by another stellar performance from Amar’e (34 points, 5 rebounds) and Felton (18 points, 11 assists), the Knicks have won their 5th straight and continue to beat the teams that we need to beat.

The Wolves took early control by dominating offensively, shooting almost 80% in the first quarter and around 70% towards the end of the second. Michael Beasley continued to play at a high level (25 points, 6 rebounds). He was downright quicker than even the normally-lockdown Chandler, beating him on a lightning first step and draining mid-range jumpers when people gave him space. Kevin Love tried his best to replicate his last performance against the Knicks and was downright dominant (33 points, 15 rebounds). He showed that he could hit open threes, which pulled out Stoudemire from the paint and allowed Minnesota to get offensive boards. He also drove hard to the lane and played a great post-up game. The Knicks weren’t playing tight defense early in the game. But even when they did, Minnesota made tough shots which forced New York to double. That left players like Ridnour and Telfair wideopen for threes, which they made.

That dynamic changed with about 3 minutes left in the 1st half as the Knicks really stepped up their pressure defense and forced turnovers. It culminated in a monster block by Turiaf alone 1 on 1 in transition to deny the last points of the half. The Knicks confined to play tough “D” throughout the game, and let Amar’e, Felton, and Chandler take over the “O.” The flop-tastic Love kept them in the game, until a clutch 3 by Gallo turned it into a free throw contest. New York has relied on Amar’e and Felton to play outstanding through this winning stretch. I’m scared to see what will happen when/if their production falls down from superhuman level. But for now, Knick fans should be happy that Amar’e has been the best player in the East for over two weeks now, combined with Felton’s outstanding play.

Thoughts on the game:

- The Wolves have a very talented, young frontcourt in Beasley and Love that I think will be great some day. Love is a tough worker who showed that he’s multifaceted, and Beasley was draining shots and beating people to the basket. Darko is making the case to be the starting center on the Isiah All-Stars (people like Ariza and Frye who start performing the second the Knicks trade them). I’ll be honest with you, I don’t see New York winning that game with him in to grab boards and defend Amar’e (who used his length to score at will on Love). At the very least, the T-Wolves owner looks like less of an idiot for using the term “manna from heaven” to describe picking up Darko, and Minnesota has something to look forward to in the future (aside from a lottery pick).

- The Knicks defense in the first half sometimes looked atrocious, but other times they defended well and Minnesota just made fortunate shots when driving to the rack. My cousin Zach (who wrote the post-game for Sunday’s Raptor’s game) brought up the following point: why are they not fouling players hard? The refs were giving them calls on soft D that led to and-1s. New York should send more of a message to people like Beasley and Love to show them how small they are. Remember on Riley’s Bruisers in the early 90’s? Charles Oakley wouldn’t just foul, he’d knock a player on their ass and make them think twice about coming into the paint again.

- Wilson Chandler played an excellent game, scoring 21 points on 12 shots with 4 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals and a block. He was one of the big reasons, along with TD, for their defensive resurgence in the second and third quarters. My big gripe with Chandler is that I don’t think he drives to the lane enough [Ed’s note – I think most people here have been saying that for a few years now]. He goes hard to the rim and is typically and excellent finisher in the low post. Chandler settles too much for jump shots and threes (only hitting 2 of 6 from downtown, though the two kept us in the game early on), when he really should be driving (and creating open opportunities for our other three point shooters).

- Despite going 1-11 from the field, Landry contributed with 10 rebounds, an area that he’s excelled at this year. The kid just hustles – D’Antoni’s system doesn’t allow for too many offensive rebounds (SSOL doesn’t allow for the positioning that is typically required), but he is the only guy on the floor who consistently runs into the paint the second someone else on our team shoots. His game could be monstrous if he develops any shooting range, but for now we’re lucky enough that he’s playing as well as he has been.

- Here is where I will draw the most angry responses of the entire post, but I don’t care. It needs to be said: Danilo Gallinari DOES NOT deserve the minutes D’Antoni gives him. He is a massive defensive liability, moving through tar guarding Beasley (who D’Antoni eventually gave to Chandler to handle) and getting blown past by every quick guard when he gets stuck in a switch. He doesn’t rebound. His offensive game (building a campsite outside the arc usually) prevents him from getting position on offensive rebounds (not like he hustles for those anyway). But the guy is 6’10’’ and hardly gets any defensive boards, only nabbing 2 today. So why do we have him? Because he’s lethal from downtown [Ed’s note – I’d say his free throws are another big strength – he’s second on the team in FTA/36]. At least, that’s what many Knickerblogger posters have you believe, but he badly clanged two wide-open attempts and another pick-and-pop where he was given plenty of room. He hasn’t used his length to shoot over people, despite people saying that’s one of his big strengths. He never utilizes his height advantage in the low-post, — seemingly a part of the game foreign to him. His drives are weak and meant to mainly draw fouls (did you see that ugly reverse layup attempt?! The refs bailed him out big time on that call.). That’s why you’ll rarely see him get an and-1, because he doesn’t go up strong enough to control himself to make the bucket (unlike, say, Chandler).

Take for instance Gallinari’s 3 pointer in the last minute with his defender all over him. For the rest of that possession before he took that shot, he wasted 6 seconds standing looking dumbfounded while Amar’e was begging for the ball on the wing with a huge mismatch. His lack of confidence, as this interview alludes to, shows in other plays too, like where he received the ball on the outside with 8 seconds on the shot clock, and instead of driving to the rack in an open lane, he wasted 5 seconds before dumping the ball to Amare and making him force a bad shot.

Don’t get me wrong. I see his potential. I know he has huge games and can make big shots. I love his pro-New York attitude and his team spirit. But he needs less minutes because HE’S INCONSISTENT. I’m not saying he won’t improve to become much better, but he’s not earning it right now.

- SHAWNE WILLIAMS! Who is this guy?!?!?!? He’s done exactly what I wanted Gallinari to do – punish the defense for helping too early on Ama’re, Felton, or Chandler’s drives to the rim. He drilled 3’s, he went for rebounds, he played decent defense…there’s no way he can continue this high of a 3pt%, but I love the fact that we’re finding hidden gems in our lineup on a daily basis.

- One last note, just because I want the guy to be good so badly – Timofey Mozgov. It’s like he shows you how good he could be one second, and then makes you regret thinking that the next. He had a beautiful assist in the second period [Ed’s note – That bounce pass was nice!] and showed you that he’s not the stranger to the game that Hollinger would have you believe in yesterday’s PER Diem. But then he goes up soft to the rim right beforehand – come on! You’re a 7’2’’ Russian Colossus! He needs to grip the ball and power it to the basket. And just having his frame in the low-post makes the Wolves think twice about driving (their points in the paint though were simply replaced by not missing jump shots). But every time he plays good defense, the next time down the court he makes a stupid foul. I hope he gets over these tendencies, because I can see him becoming a solid piece of this team in the future.

PS: I was at the game tonight, and as a dedicated fan through the Isiah era, it’s so refreshing to see the electricity back in the Garden. Even DURING Chandler taking free throws at the end, Gallo couldn’t help himself and encouraged the crowd to get louder with their “LET’S GO KNICKS!” chant. We’re on our way to showing the world that we’ve still got the best place to play basketball.

119 comments on “Knicks 121, Timberwolves 114”

Not much to add, except that this winning streak will – hopefully! – give them extra confidence to face the brutal stretch ahead. We will know how good the Knicks are by February 1st. My prediction for them this year: 45 wins IF (big IF) D’antoni improves the defense. Otherwise, it will be a 35sh season with a lot of missed opportunities. The talent for a playoff spot (and not much else, but that’s a huge first step toward better things) is there; now the question is: can D’Antoni manage to keep a steady production throughout the season?

BTW, nice write-up, Ewing. I just missed the “where’s Ted?” discussion in the other thread and do wish the guy would come back. I always liked his analysis, even if he could be infuriatingly pedantic at times.

What I’m most surprised with right now is that Chandler actually looks like a quality NBA player on both ends of the floor. Never thought it would happen.

Everything just seems better in relief of Amar’e.

I still feel like Shawne Williams is fools gold, though obviously I hope not. My friend compared him to Allan Houston during last night’s game after a sweet baseline drive and pull-up … but let’s get real here, it’s only 3 games!

First time writing – thankfully Mike cleaned it up (I wrote it on my phone on the train coming back from the game), but there are still some errors (ie: “paints in the point”) and also made it more PC.

It’s not that I think Gallinari is a bad player – I just think a lot of my frustrations stem from the fact that I very much believe he can be an (offensive) star, but he doesn’t have the attitude or the play to back that up yet.

Well, he’s not Allan Houston, but he’s getting the job done, which is much better than what Roger Mason or Bill Walker have been doing.

He’ll never keep this shooting percentages up and he had a pretty ugly air ball last night, but he seems like a player that found a niche and will be useful in short spurts, which is ok for a 9th guy on the rotation.

Nice article Ewing, but I disagree on Gallinari, I think the problem is not that he lacks confidence, is that shots aren’t falling.

He’s shooting career lows from the field and from 3 and he’s got a lot of open looks that he would have made on the last 2 years, but he’s missing them… I think once he has a stretch of good games shooting the ball, confidence will come back and he’ll be a nice threat from the outside again.

I do agree with you that he needs not only to drive more, but try to keep balance, and he’s already playing less minutes than Amare, Felton and Chandler.

Hi, just a favor to ask of the posters…please don’t talk about other sporting events! I was watching the Knicks stream (and following game thread) while recording the Jets game to watch afterwards, I had to stop reading the game thread or risk a spoiler. Watching from Europe I have to stay up till 4 or 5 am to see the game, buy lately it’s been worth it!

Nice write-up…Chandler, who woulda thunk it. Gallo, stylistically is always going to be maddening. But Amare I mean even in the most deluded of expectations did I think he could be the beast that he is. Remember early in the season they would give him the ball and he would turn it over up by the FT line. Now it seems there is a bit better position and he is able to knock down shots go strong to the hole or get fouled. Phenomenal. and of course Fields, Felton, Shawne, Douglas (on D) all help. Moz is coming along ever so painfully slowly but he is moving forward.

Well, to put in my 2 cents about the disappearance of Ted Nelson – I guess it might have been our exchanges that eventually led to his absence – although as I said again and again (in my attempts to decrease the temperature of the argument), in general I liked reading his posts and getting his input. I just didn’t like the way he condescended to anyone that disagreed with him, and went ballistic!!!!!!???!??!?!??! anytime anyone called him on anything (despite his tendency to call everyone else on everything, regardless of how trivial). But anyway Ted, despite the fact you annoy the @#%@$%^ out of me at times, I’d like to see you back too.

Or maybe you’re just waiting for Felton to return to 2007 Charlotte form to make your triumphant return?

Hard fouls are best administered by bruising, big men and the Knicks just don’t have any beyond Turiaf (Stoudemire’s too important to the team offensively to assume enforcer duties as well). This streak has proven that the Knicks are one of the top 15 teams in the league, but they won’t be able to crack the top eight until they find some help for their front court. A true center would be great, but acquiring one would probably screw-up their cap space next year and/or necessitate them tweaking the nucleus of the team. While Donnie’s busy shopping for a cheap, back-up point guard, he might want expand his search to a Joey Dorsey-type power forward. Anyone to help clear the glass and provide a little interior D.

Mind you, I’m not complaining. As a Knicks fan, I feel like I’ve been locked in solitary confinement for the past nine years. Now that I’ve been freed, I can’t help but run around like a maniac in the sunshine.

It’s great to see the trend flowing from disbelief to half belief to full belief. I hate having to say “this is the limit”. I don’t care if I’m wrong, I just wanna have fun believing in a team I haven’t been able to believe in for a very long time.

Good analysis NYK Ewing. I too bear your frustration with Gallo, but I think it is based on our expectations of who we want him to be rather than who he is. It seems he has limited his game to being a 3 point specialist threat who knows how to get to the line. If his game is on, he could easily average 20 ppg and be our second leading scorer. However, when his shot is off, I makes it look like he’s stealing playing time out there because he doesn’t do anything else very well:

However, three things I like about Gallo even when things aren’t going well for him:
1. He rarely turns the ball over (0.9 per 36, lowest on the team among rotation players)
2. The opposing team knows he’s a 3 point threat, so his man stays home on him even when he is not making 3s (notice how Shawne Williams always seems to be open for a 3 in half court sets because teams didn’t respect his shot yet, but Gallo’s man is never far away). This allows STAT, Felton and Chandler to operate with more room in the paint area.
3. He’s a great teammate that doesn’t complain about not being featured in the offense more or not getting the ball passed to him more or any excuse you’ve heard before.

So. while Gallo is not an all-star yet, I vote to keep giving him those minutes as long as he’s not losing us games, which he is not.

It saddens me to say it, but I have to admit that Gallinari is a bad defensive player. Not average, not slightly below average, but BAD.

He doesn’t do anything well on defense– doesn’t stay in front of his man, doesn’t rebound well, doesn’t play good help defense. He used to get the occasional weak side help defense block, but he doesn’t even do that any more. He lacks strength and lateral quickness, so I don’t think he’s ever going to be much of a defender.

I think we all tend to make apologies for Gallo’s defense because we like him and because he’s a homegrown Knick, but watching him trying to guard Beasley yesterday hurt my eyeballs.

A big thing about Gallo is he helps this team without even shooting on offense. There is a reason he never gets the kind of open looks from three that Chandler, Fields and Shawne consistantly get, the other teams glue his man to him and his man rarely drifts into the paint to double. He helps with spacing and then whenever the other team leaves him he can make them pay with his pump fake which works very well and despite missing an open three last night still shot 40% from behind the arc. He is on a bit of a shooting slump but is still shooting around 60% TS%.

I too would like Ted to return and say that while it was hard to change Ted’s mind it was not impossible. The key to “arguing” with Ted is to make sure you bring lots of numbers and facts. I hope he comes back to add to the discussion and keep us honest.

Good write up NYK. I think Minny has some nice young pieces, but I’m not sold on Beasley at all. He’s a ball stopper who does little else but go one-on-one (and granted he’s good at that) and as someone said in an earlier post, I’d still take Ill Will over him. Beasley was awful in the 4th quarter, which I think is revealing.

Now that the Jets have come thudding back to earth, maybe the sports media can actually start talking about the hottest team in the NBA (and no, it’s not the Heat!)

<a href="#comment- I disagree on Gallinari, I think the problem is not that he lacks confidence, is that shots aren’t falling.He’s shooting career lows from the field and from 3 and he’s got a lot of open looks that he would have made on the last 2 years, but he’s missing them… I think once he has a stretch of good games shooting the ball, confidence will come back and he’ll be a nice threat from the outside again.

In re: Gallo — I just want him to keep driving and getting to the line. His shots will eventually start falling — the past has shown he’s an excellent shooter. If he can get to the basket a bit/get fouled and shoot 90% from the line, he’ll be an excellent 3rd scorer. I also think he’s been a pretty good passer, fwiw.

With Williams coming on, where does Azu fit in? Do you think D’Antoni will reduce the starter’s minutes some (they are playing a lot) and go to a real 9 or 10 man rotation (felton, fields, gallo, chandler, stat, turiaf, douglas, williams, azu and a little from mozgov). Or will Azu take Williams’s mintues? And when he comes in does that mean Randolph will permanently stuck to the bench?

Last question — does anyone think we will make a move this season to trade some of the end of our bench for a center that D’Antoni will rely on. Something like Azu, Turiaf and Walker for Memo Okur? Or Curry for Okur? (Which would tie up our cap space in this off-season, which given that the questionable fit of Carmelo might be the signing, could be a blessing in disguise.)

I don’t think people are giving Gallo enough credit for his passing abilities. He always whips the ball around the perimeter and he’s become very adept at throwing entry passes to Stoudemire on the block.

So far, it seems that other than STAT and Felton, Mike D is willing to replace anybody in the lineup as long as he has someone who else who does the same things better or brings more to the table. The fact that Shawne Williams is playing and others who once were arent (AR, Walker, Mason), and the fluctuation of minutes for others depending on how well they are playing convinces me of this.

Azu is valuable for 2 reasons – 3 point shooting and defense at the SG spot. If he is better at this than Fields or Douglas, he will get some or most of their minutes promptly. But I don’t expect Mike D to play 10 men. That is not in line with the history of his rotations.

As of AR, I think he needs to take a page out of Shawne William’s book: play hard and well in practice and you’ll see more playing time.

As for trades, I don’t think they will make a trade that ties up the 2011 cap space unless its for a star player, and Okur doesn’t fit that description.

I definitely agree, just the threat of him being on the outside makes the team better. He’s also great at drawing fouls. As much as I hate the headfake-lean in-foul combo, he’s great at it, and a consistent ft shooter.

@D-Mar

I was going to include this in the analysis, but my biggest gripe with Beasley is his Cousins-esque attitude. I’d want his talent on my team, but not necessarily him. I could hear him screaming at Telfair for missing a ft from my seat across the arena. I’d rather take Will the Thrill as well.

Last question — does anyone think we will make a move this season to trade some of the end of our bench for a center that D’Antoni will rely on.Something like Azu, Turiaf and Walker for Memo Okur? Or Curry for Okur? (Which would tie up our cap space in this off-season, which given that the questionable fit of Carmelo might be the signing, could be a blessing in disguise.)

I don’t think D’Antoni wants another plodding 7 footer. We have Timo who is under-performing, but he’s a tradable asset and we can end his contract after this year if we want. Plus, I think he’s slowly getting better. Adding another big contract for a guy that doesn’t fit into what D’Antoni wants to do doesn’t really make sense. I think D’Antoni is secretly VERY comfortable with Amare at center and has found a good excuse to start him there with the Turiaf injury, and frankly, it’s hard to argue with the results so far.

But let’s be honest, this team needs some real tests, i.e. Boston, Miami, Orlando. Let’s see if this group can take it to the next level first.

Jake S.: I don’t think people are giving Gallo enough credit for his passing abilities. He always whips the ball around the perimeter and he’s become very adept at throwing entry passes to Stoudemire on the block.

Jake, I’m sorry but the numbers don’t lie: 1.8 assists/36. For his career he is 1.7 assists/36.

Almost everyone knows how to throw an entry pass. Not everyone knows how to hit the cutter in stride or make the right decision on the fast break or quickly recognize defensive lapses and exploit them with a well placed pass (not saying he doesn’t know how to do these, but these normally lead to easy assists – the kind of thing Rondo does on a regular basis).

I don’t think we can expect too much from Azu either unfortunately – if healthy he’d really be an asset. Apparently a torn patellar tendon is a very bad injury in basketball — this link has an unbelievably exhaustive list of NBA players with patellar injuries – if you go down to “torn” the list is short and history is not promising:

Fair point, Jafa. I just think he brings a lot more to the table offensively than he takes off. I agree that he’s a serious, defensive liability. One of the reasons the Knicks are amongst the league leaders in blocked shots is because they need their big men to help out on the weak side when their perimeter defenders get beat. See Gallinari, Danilo.

Ted’s disappearance from this site hurts all of us who took the time to read his posts. But I don’t think it hurts Ted much. Often he noted that he spent way too much time here, and that he was commenting on KnickerBlogger in lieu of doing his other work. So maybe through his KB liberation, Ted is now rapidly climbing the corporate ladder, on the fast track to world domination, all thanks to Frank :)

And, though Ted’s absence has rocked the KB, it should also be noted that Jon Abbey, has only posted once or twice this year. And Owen and Caleb are barely around anymore either. These guys made dozens of posts a day when the Knicks were going 23-59. But now that there’s actually GOOD stuff to talk about, they’ve jumped ship? What gives, huh?

Z: And, though Ted’s absence has rocked the KB, it should also be noted that Jon Abbey, has only posted once or twice this year. And Owen and Caleb are barely around anymore either. These guys made dozens of posts a day when the Knicks were going 23-59. But now that there’s actually GOOD stuff to talk about, they’ve jumped ship? What gives, huh?

BTW, I think we can all put the “how did we not draft Brandon Jennings?” hysteria to rest for a while. He was 5-16 last night to bring his FG% to a whopping .394 (career .376) and his team is 7-16. Sure, Jordan Hill is no great shakes, but where would we be right now if we had Jennings instead of Felton?

I remember Stephon being terrible at it. In fact, I think it may have been the end of he and Isiah’s bro-mance. Isiah needed Curry to score a lot to justify the trade, but Steph just couldn’t get him the ball. Jamal seemed to be the only guard that could set Curry up.

But back to Gallo– yeah, his assist #s are low, but so are his turnovers, so I think Jake’s point is somewhat valid. Gallo is a good passer (or at least could be). I just think he’s playing very conservatively right now. Also, Fields has an assist rate only slightly higher than Gallinari. As a slashing guard, Fields should get significantly more assists than Gallo.

But, honestly, watching the games I always think Fields has more assists than he’s credited for, so maybe there is something to be said for “whipping it around the perimeter”, or whatever it is these guys are doing that is working and not showing up on paper…

JK47: It saddens me to say it, but I have to admit that Gallinari is a bad defensive player.Not average, not slightly below average, but BAD.

Eh, Beasley had 25 pts, 4 above his average. He was scoring on Wil too. Wil just stepped in front of a few bad passes to Beas. Look, Beasley can score. He hung 28 recently on the Spurs.
I’m not overly worried about Gallo’s D, but he has been in a little bit of a funk. Maybe that dagger three at the end of the game will help a bit with his confidence?
I mean Amar’e gave up 33 and 15 to Love, where’s the outcry about his defense?
I’m basically happy with everyone that is getting minutes right now, except Toney Douglas and Mozgov, but damn, isn’t it nice to be complaining about those two as our worst rotation players instead of guys like Harrington, Jeffries, Hughes, Duhon, etc?

ess-dog:
Eh, Beasley had 25 pts, 4 above his average.He was scoring on Wil too.Wil just stepped in front of a few bad passes to Beas.Look, Beasley can score.He hung 28 recently on the Spurs.
I’m not overly worried about Gallo’s D, but he has been in a little bit of a funk.Maybe that dagger three at the end of the game will help a bit with his confidence?
I mean Amar’e gave up 33 and 15 to Love, where’s the outcry about his defense?
I’m basically happy with everyone that is getting minutes right now, except Toney Douglas and Mozgov, but damn, isn’t it nice to be complaining about those two as our worst rotation players instead of guys like Harrington, Jeffries, Hughes, Duhon, etc?

Sure, Beasley’s a pretty good scorer, but a couple of times he blew by Gallo completely unimpeded. Gallo has the worst defensive rating on a team that’s not very good on defense. The team is 7th worst in the league in 3PT% allowed. Guess who’s guarding guys out on the perimeter a lot? The stats and my eyes tell me Gallo’s defense is poor. Amar’e at least snares some defensive boards and blocks a couple of shots a game.

But yeah, it is nice to be talking about whether or not young players will develop, instead of talking about how we can’t wait for all of our bad contracts to expire.

ess-dog: I mean Amar’e gave up 33 and 15 to Love, where’s the outcry about his defense?

Unles whoever mentions it left isn’t it every game or thread a mention of the PF/C who went off “Brand, Blatche, Griffin, Love (x2), Amir Johnson…”

I’m basically happy with everyone that is getting minutes right now, except Toney Douglas and Mozgov, but damn, isn’t it nice to be complaining about those two as our worst rotation players instead of guys like Harrington, Jeffries, Hughes, Duhon, etc?

Total salary: $58.4M right at cap
On pace for 48 wins at current rate
Possible $14+M cap space after this year.
Average age: 24.6

I love my NYK but if the little weasel somehow weasels his way back into this franchise, I might seriously start rooting for, I don’t know, the Thunder or something. Donnie deserves a solid A for this rebuild job, especially since it looks like he never really had a chance at LBJ. His arguably worst move was the trade with Houston last year, and even that move (I think) made it possible to swing the David Lee deal and possibly sign Felton. If this early season success is not a mirage, the net cost of that deal to us will be Jordan Hill (who sucks) and a late-ish 1st rounder in 2012.

If they gave “executive of the month” awards, you’d have to figure Donnie would’ve won it, right? Between drafting Fields, keeping Shawne Williams on the roster, and signing Felton, he made 3 moves roundly criticized at the time, that are paying major dividends.

Those, plus delivering a winning team after executing his 2 year plan, puts him above Pat the Rat for the award, no?

So what should the guy do, insist on getting the ball when they’re winning with the dump-ins to Amar’e or Felton shooting rather than passing? Only Landry Fields took less shots than Gallo last night in the starting lineup (and one of Gallo’s shots was when the game was basically over), and Gallo made over 50% of the shots he did take.

And when the game was close, he did ask for the ball and he made the back-breaking three.

So to complain about his offense last night (or in general) seems pretty strange. He’s currently tied with Amar’e in WS/48 and he’s just behind Amar’e and Felton in overall Win Shares (they play more minutes).

Knock his defense, sure, but he more than makes up for it with his offense. That’s why he gets all those minutes.

This is a request for a future post, really in lieu of comment 31.
Obviously a great measure of a players effectiveness are advanced shooting statiscs that allude to a players efficiency. My question is how many of the most efficient scorers in the league play with aggressive high volume scorers with lower efficiencies or very good PGs? As much as we knock the Melo’s of the world, i just think thhat the defences of the league are of a certain standard and every shot is not going to be the ‘right’ shot. You just don’t get that shot from guards or wings a whole lot unless there is some reason for the defense to sag off them.
An assisted basket stat maybe? Assists received?
Jennings’ stats are going to be skewed as he is creating his own shot all the time (not saying he is doing a good job of it!), perhaps creating his own shot too much. But that is not necessarily his fault, maybe its bad coaching. If you can’t get your point guard to understand the benefit of getting others scoring to then enable him to get easy looks, then perhaps you’re not doing your job. Then again there is always the largely under used, very mature :), anti-advanced statistic… Deucebag %/36

Going back to Gallo’s defense – I think there is a major fundamental problem. When he is guarding his player, he tends to be way too close to them. Since he is so slow moving his feet, when the player makes their move, one of three things happen. Either Gallo draws the offensive foul, the player blows by him, or he fouls them. This basically leads to the latter two 90% of the time. Gallinari is almost always bigger than the man he is guarding. He needs to back off and try to draw the shot, then put his long arms in the players face.

Look at the first 50 seconds of this video – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CK718NC7tw . I know it highlights Gallinari’s defensive ability, but it shows the exact point I am talking about. He gets way too close to smaller defenders and so they use his body to bounce off of and blow right by, or they draw the foul most of the time. In the video, I see these as just lucky charges, to be honest.

One thing outside of the Knicks that caught my eye was that the Cavs might be looking to shop Varejao by the deadline. Personally, I love his game (a hustle player who swarms on D and gets boards – like a Noah-lite) and think the Knicks have plenty of scorers to make up for his lack of offense. I know a lot of peopleSince we badly lack interior D and rebounding, I think it’s an interesting thought but I don’t know a) how much Cleveland’s asking price will be, and b) how well he will fit into Dantoni’s system.

@43
especially the one against the sixers. Almost laughable. However I think he is playing under a lot of pressure right now and doing a pretty good job. At times everything about his game looks contrived as though he is over thinking everything, when he acts instinctively then he looks deadly. I think really that comes back to a confidence issue, the hesitations, the silly fouls, I think they will disappear when he stops over thinking the game. Poor statistical analysis I know. But I also agree that he it is not as though he is killing us offensively, he just isn’t being aggressive enough and that is something I can definately live with. I am not disappointed that if a guy opens a game shooting badly, he stops shooting and finds other ways to be useful. It will work itself out I just think we are starved of something truely negative to talk about.

Varajao would be awesome. I don’t know what the Cavs could possibly want that the Knicks have, though. I’d imagine they’d have to be looking for a good draft pick for him, right? Plus a cheap young scorer. I suppose the Knicks could offer Gallo, but I don’t know if that would even be appetizing to the Cavs (as Gallo isn’t super cheap now, and he’s only getting more expensive).

Over 7 mill for the next 5 years is Varejao’s price so I think I will take a pass. I don’t dislike the idea of a guy like him but we just aren’t in a situation to excecute. I don’t think adding Melo is a bad move as long as we only give up the contracts we wouldn’t renew in the summer in order to get him.

Varejao would fit perfectly next to Stoudemire but man that is a LOOOOONG contract at ~8M per, at the end of which he will be 33-34. I don’t know the history of energy/hustle defenders as they reach their mid-30s but I imagine it’s not great. But if in his infinite wisdom, Donnie decides to use his 2011 cap space on resigning WC and somehow trading for Varejao, I’d be ok with it. Varejao, Stoudemire, Turiaf, and Mozgov would be an excellent mix of frontcourt guys.

Frank: Varejao would fit perfectly next to Stoudemire but man that is a LOOOOONG contract at ~8M per, at the end of which he will be 33-34. I don’t know the history of energy/hustle defenders as they reach their mid-30s but I imagine it’s not great. But if in his infinite wisdom, Donnie decides to use his 2011 cap space on resigning WC and somehow trading for Varejao, I’d be ok with it. Varejao, Stoudemire, Turiaf, and Mozgov would be an excellent mix of frontcourt guys.

yeah, but his contract is not really that big, the actual money is tied to a lot of incentives.

I’d love to see Varejão on the Knicks, but Cleveland would ask for Chandler or Gallo at least, and I don’t know if the salary numbers would work.

Curry and Randolph for Varejao and Sessions would be a really good trade for us. Fill two big holes with players that aren’t in the rotation. (And it would probably work out well (very) long term for the Cavs, should Randolph ever figure it out).

Problem is, it would rule out ever bringing in Carmelo, which I think the front office isn’t ready to compromise. So it’s probably a waste of cyber-ink to even talk about it.

Our expiring contracts are Curry, Azu, Mason, Williams, and Walker (option). There’s not one person on that list that would entice the Nuggets. It will definitely include Curry’s contract, and they will definitely ask for Fields at this point, and then at least either Gallo or Chandler, if not more. I would probably pull the trigger if it was Gallo and not Chandler, but the emergence of Landry is making me think about it.

I’m still praying he’s a Nugget at the end of the year. Or on any team without signing the contract.

Bruno Almeida: yeah, but his contract is not really that big, the actual money is tied to a lot of incentives.I’d love to see Varejão on the Knicks, but Cleveland would ask for Chandler or Gallo at least, and I don’t know if the salary numbers would work. (Quote)

Interesting… I did not know that. Where did you find that info or are you Larry Coon???? Presumably the 7-8 mill still counts against the cap though?

taggart4800:
Interesting… I did not know that. Where did you find that info or are you Larry Coon???? Presumably the 7-8 mill still counts against the cap though?

I think the 8 mil still counts against the cap, yes.

The contract was reported as 6 years, 50 mil, but it’s actually 42.5 mil, with a partially guaranteed 6th year and the last 7.5 mil is tied to incentives (I didn’t get to find exactly what incentives it is tied to)

And, though Ted’s absence has rocked the KB, it should also be noted that Jon Abbey, has only posted once or twice this year. And Owen and Caleb are barely around anymore either. These guys made dozens of posts a day when the Knicks were going 23-59. But now that there’s actually GOOD stuff to talk about, they’ve jumped ship? What gives, huh?

PER 3.1 TS% .282 eFG% .250
Seems like the new season has caught Earl Barron off guard :)
Only played 103 minutes this season but still.
Thank god he is not the Knicks back up this year.
He is avg 8 boards/36 though.

Not really interested in Varejao- I think the Knicks should look for a C has at least some range on their jumper- I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the P&R really started clicking when Turiaf was out- the floor spacing has been much, much better. Would Varejao help? Sure, but if we’re going to give up cap flexibility (and trade at least one real asset if not two) to get a center, I’d rather hold out for someone who’s a better fit in the offense.

Also, while I’ve been critical of Gallo’s defense, I don’t think he’s awful- I actually think he does a pretty good job of staying in front of the ball though he sometimes doesn’t seem to understand the difference between forcing someone baseline and just giving the baseline up with no resistance- a couple of times he just let Beasley blow by him and then looked upset that no help came- keep a body on a guy and you’ll slow him up enough that help can come, give him a free run to the basket and the rotation will always be late. Also, he’s not a great help defender though some of that may be by design as Chandler looks like the designated help guy on the mid-post. Gallo is pretty bad in transition- always looking to match up with his man rather than paying attention what’s actually happening on the court- Gallo pays the price a bit for Fields crashing the offensive glass but he needs to make better reads in transition than he has been doing.

I’m not sure I agree that this was an ugly game.
I would contend that this was a pretty beautifully played game from the offensive perspective. Minni shot lights out, and often their shots were contested. The passing by both teams in the first half was superior and I think both teams were caught off guard by it.
Don’t let Minni’s record fool you. This is going to be a good team. They just don’t know how to put up a consistent effort. But that will come. Their scorers are pretty good. Love is going to be a star, and Beasley is going to be a killer. Milicic is going to be an effective center.
Sure the Knicks interior D was a bit off at the outset, but I think they also were caught off guard by the passing and fluidity of minni’s attack.
And the Knicks also scored effectively, but in a more balanced way. And when they came back after the half, the Knicks adjusted well to what Minni was trying to do, clogged passing lanes and denied passes, and Minni, and their youth, wilted under the pressure, for a time. But only for a time because they didn’t really ever go away until the Gallo dagger followed by the Amare dunk.
This was a very entertaining and beautifully played game. Both teams shot well, took good shots, worked hard on the glass, and played D as well as can be expected against teams that were unconsciously hot most of the game.
IMHO

Also- Should the Knicks think about floating Chandler a low-ish extension now- maybe something like 4 yrs 25-27m and hope that with the lock-out looming he’ll bite? If he keeps playing the way he’s playing (an if, but not a big if IMO) he’d get at least 8-10m if not more on the open market. I know he’s restricted and most likely, like Lee, the Knicks will be able to at least sign him for one more year and that signing him may mean no max offer on Carmelo this summer (it’d mean we’d probably have to dump a player or two to create space) but I still think it’s something the Knicks should consider as even if the Knicks do sign Carmelo, a Chandler signed at very reasonable number becomes a great trade chip.

On Gallo: The Knicks have Amare and Felton taking a lot of shots and Chandler has emerged as a profound offensive and defensive force. Simply looking at the math, Gallo’s touches would decline some, I think, especially now that Williams has become such a strong 3 pt shooter.
I also think Gallo sees the moments where he is needed and steps up. His line last night was good for a third option scorer on a high scoring team. His rebounds were down, but they were down across the board: too many shots were falling. I don’t think his matchups last night, generally, were good for him.
He’s also 22, I think, and really is not yet – and may never be – a top scorer. I think we all need to modify our expectations for him.
He is playing an important role on this team. He’s not gonna score 20 per night. Not with Amare taking 23 shots and Felton and Chandler taking 13-15 shots.
The only thing he did differently last night was he didn’t attack the hoop as much, and, hence, didn’t get to the line as much as he can.
But he’s a third option, if not a fourth option on most nights now.
Maybe that will change, but not if Felton and Chandler keep playing as they are, and with Williams suddenly emerging as a threat from three, his touches could diminish more.
But he’s an important role player on the team. I like that Williams has emerged because I seem him pushing Gallo.

On Milicic: I disagree that the outcome would have been different with Milicic in the game. As much as I like the way he is playing this year, and I have seen him several times now, I think his presence would have had a marginal effect on the outcome. I don’t see him hanging with Amare throughout that game. On the other hand, I see Milicic struggling with the pressure the Knicks were putting on the ball in the third.
The game may have played out differently, but I believe the outcome would have been the same. The Knicks are showing an uncanny ability to adjust after the half – credit to D’Antoni.
Simply put, the Knicks are a better team right now, period.
Darko isn’t yet good enough to affect the differences between the Knicks now and the Timberwolves right now.

For Minni to beat the Knicks this year, Love needs to score 30 and get 30 rebounds. Against a lot of teams, if Minni scores 114 points,shoots 52% from the field and 48% from 3 pt, gets 17 points off 11 TOs, and shoots 81 percent from the line, that’s a win.

But the Knicks got 28 points off 17 TOs, amassing 9 steals and 6 blocks, outscored the wolves 48-42 in the paint (!!!this after the Wolves first half where they seemed to score in the paint at will) shot 53% from the field and 43% from 3 and 78 percent from the line.

The Knicks played a more complete game, and the difference was the product of halftime adjustments that changed the tone and flow. Knicks defense has the ability to do that night to night, surprisingly.

NYK Ewing: One thing outside of the Knicks that caught my eye was that the Cavs might be looking to shop Varejao by the deadline.

Here’s the deal — at some point before february, walsh is going to have to decide whether he wants to trade expirings in order to get over the cap before the offseason, giving him access to the midlevel exception and allowing him to resign Chandler (and maybe Turiaf as well) via their bird rights. I think before he makes that choice, he’s waiting for a clearer picture to develop regarding Carmelo. If Anthony is traded and/or signs an extension, I think this is the clear plan of action is to make those trades. If he sticks with Denver through the season without extending, you have to keep the cap space and try to snag Anthony as a free agent.

Varejao is like Turiaf but better. He’s a better rebounder, less injury-prone, bigger, more athletic. He doesn’t block as many shots, but he truly is an elite defender who can guard any big, and that will be a necessity if the knicks are to compete against teams like Boston, LA, or Orlando. The problem is that he’s 28 — not that young anymore. In two years, who will be better — anthony randolph or Varejao? It’s hard to say. To me, Varejao is worth it, but you don’t mortgage the farm for him. I’d send an expiring and randolph for him, but not any more, and I think you may find a team that’s closer to championship contention is willing to give up a little more for him.

nicos: Also- Should the Knicks think about floating Chandler a low-ish extension now- maybe something like 4 yrs 25-27m and hope that with the lock-out looming he’ll bite? If he keeps playing the way he’s playing (an if, but not a big if IMO) he’d get at least 8-10m if not more on the open market. I know he’s restricted and most likely, like Lee, the Knicks will be able to at least sign him for one more year and that signing him may mean no max offer on Carmelo this summer (it’d mean we’d probably have to dump a player or two to create space) but I still think it’s something the Knicks should consider as even if the Knicks do sign Carmelo, a Chandler signed at very reasonable number becomes a great trade chip. (Quote)

Frank O.: NYK Ewing:I’m not sure I agree that this was an ugly game.I would contend that this was a pretty beautifully played game from the offensive perspective. Minni shot lights out, and often their shots were contested. The passing by both teams in the first half was superior and I think both teams were caught off guard by it.Don’t let Minni’s record fool you. This is going to be a good team. They just don’t know how to put up a consistent effort. But that will come. Their scorers are pretty good. Love is going to be a star, and Beasley is going to be a killer. Milicic is going to be an effective center.Sure the Knicks interior D was a bit off at the outset, but I think they also were caught off guard by the passing and fluidity of minni’s attack.And the Knicks also scored effectively, but in a more balanced way. And when they came back after the half, the Knicks adjusted well to what Minni was trying to do, clogged passing lanes and denied passes, and Minni, and their youth, wilted under the pressure, for a time. But only for a time because they didn’t really ever go away until the Gallo dagger followed by the Amare dunk.This was a very entertaining and beautifully played game. Both teams shot well, took good shots, worked hard on the glass, and played D as well as can be expected against teams that were unconsciously hot most of the game.IMHO (Quote)

Correction. Their scoring wasn’t more balanced as much as it was more opportunistic. The…

I agree with your first post, and I think I mentioned most of the things you said in my post (I didn’t check to see if they were edited out). They are a solid young team, and, again, I think we lose this game had Darko not been pulled (being at the game live, I had no idea why he was out until later). I covered their ability to hit open (and then contested) shots later too, as well as our consistent offense winning us the game.

You’re right, “ugly game” might have been too harsh – I came up with that assessment on the train home. I might have been biased by being at the game – our defense looked horrid through a lot of the first half, and it sucked the emotions out of the Garden. Then there were questionable calls in the second half (TV makes those much more objective), and a foul/ft contest prolonging the end of the game always makes it seem a bit worse. Their offense looked good, and so did ours.

As for Gallo: I agree that we have to modify expectations — my post was mainly directed at those thinking he would be a superstar for this team (or even that second-best all-star player all championship teams always have), and I think that hope is misplaced. I at least want him to be a consistent third option, and he hasn’t been. And for being a liability on defense and the boards, his offensive game is staggeringly limited (I posted about that here and here: http://knickerblogger.net/who-is-second-most-valuable-knick/). I don’t mind if he just sticks to that arsenal, but he needs to at least consistently deliver with it.

taggart4800: @43
especially the one against the sixers. Almost laughable. However I think he is playing under a lot of pressure right now and doing a pretty good job. At times everything about his game looks contrived as though he is over thinking everything, when he acts instinctively then he looks deadly. I think really that comes back to a confidence issue, the hesitations, the silly fouls, I think they will disappear when he stops over thinking the game. Poor statistical analysis I know. But I also agree that he it is not as though he is killing us offensively, he just isn’t being aggressive enough and that is something I can definately live with. I am not disappointed that if a guy opens a game shooting badly, he stops shooting and finds other ways to be useful. It will work itself out I just think we are starved of something truely negative to talk about.

Gallo is a great secondary option but a very weak first option. He is great at catching the pass from the interior on the 3pt line after the D collapses and punishing a defender that is trying to recover. He makes convincing head fakes that get defenders in the air, either allowing him to draw contact on the shot or on the drive.

However, when he catches the ball as a first option (i.e. before penetration or an amare post up), he lacks the first step, the strength, and the ability to shoot off the dribble to create problems for the defense. Furthermore, unlike a richard hamilton, he does not have the quick release to catch the ball off screens and get shot off before the defender recovers. If he could put on 10-15 lbs of muscle, he would have a much easier time posting up against shorter small forwards; as is, he can’t recover from the body contact.

If we think we can get him, we hold sway and wait for Free Agency (if is still exist) and load up for next season (if there is a season). If we think we can’t get him, we trade for a big and a back-up PG, resign Chandler, Turiaf and anybody else we want, and use the mid-level exception (if it still exist) to improve our team.

We are waiting on one star players decision. Sounds very familiar. Where have I seen this movie before?

I have to completely disagree about your point on Milicic, though. Maybe the outcome would have been different but the Knicks would have had to change their gameplay. Amare scored by driving in and hitting a layup over Love, because of his height. He doesn’t make those plays as consistently against 7’+. Their offense changes too – more offensive rebounds, more need to put Turiaf and Mozgov in to defend him (he scored at will against Amare – http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/22504/a-night-with-the-knicks-and-that-guy).

The Knicks are a better team that Minni for sure, but you can’t discount the effect Darko has on the game, especially the way he’s been playing (and played in that game while he was in).

Jafa: @65 – so Melo is impeding our progress ala personnel.
If we think we can get him, we hold sway and wait for Free Agency (if is still exist) and load up for next season (if there is a season).If we think we can’t get him, we trade for a big and a back-up PG, resign Chandler, Turiaf and anybody else we want, and use the mid-level exception (if it still exist) to improve our team.We are waiting on one star players decision.Sounds very familiar.Where have I seen this movie before?

I think it all depends on the actual Carmelo situation, because last summer there were a billion teams with cap space, and now we don’t really know, specially with the whole CBA thing and the possible lockout looming.

I think what’s keeping is more is that this roster is performing really well now, so there’s no hurry to make a move, and for all we know, there might not even be a next season… this kind of uncertainty has got to affect every team’s decision from now on.

Z: And, though Ted’s absence has rocked the KB, it should also be noted that Jon Abbey, has only posted once or twice this year. And Owen and Caleb are barely around anymore either. These guys made dozens of posts a day when the Knicks were going 23-59. But now that there’s actually GOOD stuff to talk about, they’ve jumped ship? What gives, huh?

hey, nice to be remembered. a few reasons for me: I’m still not really over LeBron passing on NY, and the team’s success so far (although against the easiest schedule in the league) hasn’t helped. both he and NY would have been decidedly better off if he’d chosen NY, and I’m having trouble getting over that.

so combine that with a busy time in my real life, a dislike for the format of this site (I prefer ongoing threads, but I do appreciate that Mike gave those a shot), and that’s why you haven’t seen much of me so far this year. I did finally make the move to HDTV this week and have seen the last two games like that, pretty damn awesome.

on a Knicks note, Shawne Williams=WOW. I don’t think anyone saw that coming.

One thing I didn’t mention re: resigning Chandler now is that, at this point at least, no one knows what the cap situation is going to be- there’s a very good chance of a hard cap which would mean no more Bird Rights- if you can lock Chandler up now at a very reasonable number- reasonable enough that he’d be relatively easy to move in the event you’d need to create cap space then I think you do it- productive young guys on reasonable contracts are tremendous assets. Now I’m not sure Chandler would even take a 4 yr 6.5-7m per deal- the only reason he might is the impending lock-out. Might as well try to get something out of the situation.

jon abbey:
hey, nice to be remembered. a few reasons for me: I’m still not really over LeBron passing on NY, and the team’s success so far (although against the easiest schedule in the league) hasn’t helped. both he and NY would have been decidedly better off if he’d chosen NY, and I’m having trouble getting over that.so combine that with a busy time in my real life, a dislike for the format of this site (I prefer ongoing threads, but I do appreciate that Mike gave those a shot), and that’s why you haven’t seen much of me so far this year. I did finally make the move to HDTV this week and have seen the last two games like that, pretty damn awesome.on a Knicks note, Shawne Williams=WOW. I don’t think anyone saw that coming.

Good to see you again Abbey. Maybe multi-thread is worth another try again? With like a different color for a different author?

I would like to focus more on subjects so that the discussion gets “deeper”, as it were.

LBJ really would’ve been killer on this team, but we wouldn’t have been able to get Ray once we landed Lebron… still…

But you gotta feel good right now, weak schedule or not. Referring to my earlier post, at least there’s really no one to HATE on our team for once! Gotta love that. I mean, AR is a bit of a bonehead, Walker is underperforming and Mason has just lost it (and Curry doesn’t count) but all the players who PLAY are really worth rooting for. Can you imagine?

Always liked him as a player. Since he’s been apprenticing under Walsh for two years so far, hopefully he’ll be a very good GM, having seen first hand how to come into a bad situation and turn it around.

Where does the love for Darko come from. People are acting like he’s playing really well this year, he is not. His TS% is 44.8% the lowest it’s been since his second year and he is averaging 3.1 tos per 36, the worst in has career. Darko is staggeringly inefficient and has always been. He is a good defender and a very good shot blocker but his rebounding is average at best for a center and his passing while above average is canceled out by the high turnover rate.

People act like he is a building block for Minnesota but I just don’t see it. Love is a beast and Beasley is developing as a scorer, but needs to be more efficient before I get excited, and Johnson and Flynn have showed flashes but their youth movement is pretty average. One young star and three question marks.

I think the best thing for the Knicks is to keep the core (Amare, Felton, Chandler, Fields & Gallo) intact. Getting rid of at least one of these guys plus other concessions that will put the knicks over the cap for several years would be catastrophic. For example: if we get Carmelo Anthony at the cost of Chandler plus Curry’s contract and one future draft pick, the Knicks would be a second playoff round candidate with no cap flexibility to improve the team for several years. how good would that be? (I know the example is a rough one, but that’s the type of scenario often contemplated).

If the Knicks keep playing well, then it’s the OTHER TEAMS that should be willing to offer a LOT for some of the promising young Knicks players (Chandler, Fields, Gallo). I thin Walsh should wait until the beginning of February, when the knicks will have played everyone in the NBA – then we will know what their true strenght/potential is. At that point there will not be many doubts about what type of team we have, either way. I hope it turns out we have a very good young team.

I think that Carmelo Anthony is a great basketball player, I think we on this site, in reaction to the fact that he is overrated in the mainstream media, tend to underrate him. I think on the offensive side of the ball he is a top twenty player and his mediocre TS% is mainly due to the fact that he is relied upon to carry his team offensively. Defensively he is solid but not great.

With that said I question how much of a help he would be to this team. We already have our high usage primary scorer, who is actually better than Melo, and we have solid offensive role players around him. We are the fourth best offense and since we started clicking, as good offensively as any of the teams ahead of us. We can only be so good offensively, would adding another scorer to this team, who would potentially take shots away from more efficient players, no matter how good he is really help. He wouldn’t improve us defensively and he would kill our cap.

We don’t need to make any move at all. Our rotation is already really really strong and we have a number of x-factors (Randolph, Azubuike, Mozgov) who if they play to their potential could actually make us better in the coming months.

Stats can be deceiving. He has one of the worst starts to the season of any player I can remember for a while, and, like our Knicks, people began labeling him a huge bust very early in the season. He has since turned it around (actually right around the time the Knicks did) and has played very solid minutes. He’s playing with confidence and has a new swagger that the stats aren’t reflecting yet. You need to see him play, but you won’t catch him unless you’re lucky enough to have League Pass like me. Also, his biggest improvements have been mainly defensive. It might just be a fluke, but the love so far is deserved.

NYK Ewing: @Ben RStats can be deceiving. He has one of the worst starts to the season of any player I can remember for a while, and, like our Knicks, people began labeling him a huge bust very early in the season. He has since turned it around (actually right around the time the Knicks did) and has played very solid minutes. He’s playing with confidence and has a new swagger that the stats aren’t reflecting yet. You need to see him play, but you won’t catch him unless you’re lucky enough to have League Pass like me. Also, his biggest improvements have been mainly defensive. It might just be a fluke, but the love so far is deserved.

Yeah, I agree 100%, Melo is also averaging 8 rebounds per game, which is almost what Amare has, and he’s had some nagging injuries to complicate his start.

I think Melo is an elite scorer, he may not be terribly efficient but he can get his shot against any defender in the league, and defenses need to be on his face every time or he’ll make them pay.

I’d love to see Carmelo together with Amare because we would create a pick your poison situation: do you double Amare when he gets the ball close to the basket, and open yourself to Carmelo and the outside shooters, or do you focus on Melo and leave Stoudemire free to roam inside?

because when we face the best teams in the NBA, you can bet they will try to take Amare out of the game and force the other players to win it… if we had Carmelo, that becomes impossible.

He’s a ball stopper, yes, but I think it’s pretty much because he has to be, Billups is a shell of himself and nobody else on this Denver team can create his own shot, outside of J.R Smith who’s terrible.

Look, no matter what moves we make whether it be in the offseason or before the trade deadline we will eventually be capped out. People keep talking like we’ll maintain this cap flexibility indefinitely and for what? Having money and never spending it is hardly going to be the answer. Carmelo is a proven talent, put him next to a player that is actually better than him and who knows what will happen with his efficiency. There was an article about him recently talking about how he is actually far better on his open looks than most of the efficient scorers in the league so it’s just a matter of getting him to cut back on some of the less efficient shots, which I think is far easier to do when you are not the #1 guy on a team. I think in NY’s offense Carmelo could really flourish, and passing on someone of his caliber is simply dumb. We need a good rebounding big, not even much of a scorer. Think about if we had a Turiaf that was fully healthy, well Turiafs not even an elite rebounder. We should be able to deal for a player like that. I’m sure that the MLE will still exist after the new CBA because if they were to go to a hard cap system, a team like Miami is flat out screwed. They’ll never be able to improve that team at all and would have a hard time even keeping their role players. The NBA does not wanna see the teams with legit stars to get stuck. In a hard cap system in the NBA 4 or 5 years from now your NBA finals is going to be Toronto vs Minnesota, and nobody wants that. If we have a reasonable shot at Carmelo this season we have to take it. I just don’t get you guys sometimes, if I think we can be better than what you guys project you say no way. But when it comes to moves that will improve the team everyone says no no no. Fields is NOT GOING TO BE A PART OF ANY TRADE. There is no way. The sky is the limit on him right now and he’s a second round rook with no kind of contract. No freakin way do they let go of that, he is far too…

Not just because he is playing well but because he won’t be a cap liability for a long time, Chandler and Gallo, we’ll have to pay those guys soon. So you are looking at losing prob Gallo and Randolph, and possibly Douglas, but that is only if Denver becomes willing to trade, which given their record right now I don’t think they will. But if that chance comes up you better believe they are going to take it. I mean look at the players that are thriving in D’Antoni’s system, and if those guys can play well in it, you have to think Carmelo Anthony can as well.

@73, Hi Jon, always like seeing your crazy avatar. I, for one, like the current format better and didn’t like the change when it was tried. Hope you come back into the fold.

That said, I can’t waste my time pining for any individual (no matter how clever, erudite, responsive, humorous, etc.) who decides to abandon posting on KB, especially if it is someone who can dish it out but can’t take it. I am more than happy to chat with the remaining die-hards (and newcomers) who care enough about the Knicks and basketball to not get too bent out of shape when someone offends his/her sensibilities. Especially after winning 10 of 11!

PS: for the record, I defended Ted before he stopped posting; and I want to state for the record that I don’t like the character limit on posts. Some of the most informative/interesting posts I have read here (including Ted’s) were very long ones. If people don’t want to read the longer posts, why can’t they just scroll on through?

I suppose I didn’t need to share the link to compare Dirk and Amare’. BUT C’MON!!!! Dirk #4 and Amare’ #7?? Dirk’s a GREAT player..this we all know. But Dallas was already expected to be good. Plus he has Haywood AND Chandler to do the dirty work. Who does Amare have that’s consistently helping him in the middle? I’ll wait………………………a banged up Turiaf rite? What’s more a travesty than Dirk’s season bein held in higher regard in some circles is the fact that Dirk’s NEVER been a rebounder or defender. Stat’s gettin 25 ppg, 9 rpg, 2 apg and 2 bpg. And all we ever hear about when we turn on the tube is ppl like Barkley (whom I respect) call him a SF for not rebounding. Or soft for not playin D. Dirk’s been that way for what? 12 seasons? Nobody’s shitting on Dirk’s rebounding and defense as a legit 7 footer. Why? Because he can shoot? Seriously? Don’t get me wrong yal, i’d take either player. But right now, considering where NY was and the type of roster we have (youth, unproven, more question marks than exclamation points)-and the fact that Amare’ is doing EVERYTHING we need as the alpha dog and only real scoring threat while taking NY to heights the team hasn’t been in in YEARS (along with Felton)-how can Amare’ NOT be one of the top 3 or 4 names mentioned in the MVP race? I guess what i’m sayin is, no Maurice Brooks is not the authority, but wouldn’t u assume that if it’s ESPN that it’s pretty much a good chunk of the nations opinion? Besides that, how many media outlets are holding Amare’ in a higher regard rite now? Besides us? Folks are takin Stat for granted and it’s a travesty…a sham..and a mockery. IT’S A TRAVESHAMOCKERY!!!!! lol…ventilation done.

SeeWhyDee77: Folks are takin Stat for granted and it’s a travesty…a sham..and a mockery. IT’S A TRAVESHAMOCKERY!!!!! lol…ventilation done.

It’s all about wins. The only player on there who’s on a team with a worse win% than Amare’s Knicks is Rose, and Chicago’s had a tougher schedule and arguably has a weaker complementary roster (without boozer). If they do this again in a month and the knicks’ are something like 22-15, amare will be right up there at the top.

Spree8nyk8: Look, no matter what moves we make whether it be in the offseason or before the trade deadline we will eventually be capped out. People keep talking like we’ll maintain this cap flexibility indefinitely and for what? Having money and never spending it is hardly going to be the answer…[snip] I think in NY’s offense Carmelo could really flourish, and passing on someone of his caliber is simply dumb.

Right..I get that. I have no problem with Rose being up there. The guy’s havin an incredible season. But still, regardless of the schedule, what Amare’ has done for the team considering his help is amazing. Look around, Deng has scored 20 a game for a season before, and Noah’s out there in Chi-Town. Boozer or not, Rose still has pretty decent help. But my beef is not with Rose’s standing. It’s with Dirk’s. His team is winning, but jeez! He has Kidd, Butler, Terry, Chandler, Marion and Haywood. Most of those guys are former All Stars. Dallas is SUPPOSED to be good. All teams have to do is focus on Stat and we’re pretty much shut down. Granted, we have better shooters around Stat, but they’re maddingly inconsistent. Though they’ve played well as of late. It’s still a shock, to me at least, to see people not giving Stat enough credit. While Felton’s having a hell of a season, Stat’s counted on to score, rebound and defend. And to be our best player in each category. I understand that’s pretty much what you would expect your best player to do..but that’s alot to ask of a guy comin off 2 microfractures who hasn’t really shown alot without a good to great PG makin it easy for him. As good as Stat is, we had no idea how he would respond without guys like Marbury (the PHX years), Nash, Marion, Joe Johnson, Grant Hill, and even Jason Richardson taking pressure off of him. So far Stat has shown that he’s a top 5-ish player in this league and I think he deserves more recognition. With the way he’s responded to the challenge that is the Knicks-the only player’s I would take over him right now are Kobe, Lebron, Rose (with the way he’s playin) and maybe even John Wall. Wall’s a one of a kind talent at the point. But those other guys are either all time greats who can still be the biggest factor in the game or having otherwordly seasons. I’m sorry..I forgot Durant and Westbrook..I would pick those guys 2 or at least STRONGLY consider them.

latke:
It’s all about wins.The only player on there who’s on a team with a worse win% than Amare’s Knicks is Rose, and Chicago’s had a tougher schedule and arguably has a weaker complementary roster (without boozer).If they do this again in a month and the knicks’ are something like 22-15, amare will be right up there at the top.

I was talking about Milicic, but agree that Melo is a better player than what a lot of people commenting believe. My worry is how well he’ll mesh in the system, not how good individually he is.

@Spree

If you want to get Melo at all costs, you can’t take Fields off the table. He’s the third best rookie this year and, as you said, very, very cheap coming from late second round. The trade has to be equitable; we can’t just look at it from our side. They’re going to want him. While I don’t agree that the ‘sky is the limit’ for Fields, I think he’ll be a very good second option 2 years down the road if he develops a mid-range game or a three-pointer.

There’s a decent probability that will happen, but not guaranteed. Fields is not what I’d call a sure thing as a rookie: someone who will in all probability be an all-star in the future barring injury. Griffin is a sure thing, so is Wall (again, unless he’s injured). Fields is not. (By the way, I’d like to state here that anyone who has said so far that Fields seriously deserves to be the rookie of the year over Griffin knows nothing about basketball, and I’d suggest they take up a different hobby). I’d say his rebounding is a sure-thing, he’s a great hustler and has got good instincts for boards. The other thing that people point to is his fg% (which has fallen a good bit, but still is 2nd only behind Stoudemire). But look at the stats: he takes the least attempts per game by a good margin of starters, and TD takes more than him. He’s good at making good cuts to the basket and getting follow ups off his boards. And he is pretty good at driving to the basket but he rarely, if ever does it when the defense is set – ie, not in transition of a double play or switching from a pick -and there is time on the clock. That type of player should have a high fg%. Fields is a very smart player and a hard worker, but I can only definitely say now that he’ll be a solid (not amazing – yet) defender…

and a great rebounder for a 2 (which is not something that will make you an all-star).

Given his smarts and work ethic, though, I have hope and think there’s a very good chance he’ll develop a great offensive game and get even better at rebounding and defending. I can see Landry making the All-Star cut in a few years for sure if he develops correctly. But we can’t assume that will happen, whereas you already know the strengths that make Griffin and Wall developing franchise players (hell, Griffin is already putting up all-star numbers, but I think my mom could as well on the Clippers).

Why do I bring this up? Historically, teams rarely trade sure-thing rookies unless they’re getting some amazing value from it, but its more common to see very good rookies get traded for solid value. As you said, Carmelo’s already a top player (sure-thing turned real thing), and we’re going to have to sacrifice things the Nuggets want – ie: a cheap player who has the chance to turn into something very good.

Anyway, people are probably going to go after me for saying Fields is bad, which is the last thing I’m doing. His outstanding play has made me really question how much I want Melo knowing the Nuggets will want him (along with at least Curry and Chandler or Gallo). At this point, I think I’d still want them to do it, but not without pulling my hair out. Glad I’m not in Walsh’s seat.

At the end of the day, Melo is going to leave. He ultimately has the power to not sign anything (at least, from everything I’ve read), and if he doesn’t that’s the best case scenario for us. The Nuggets management is not in an enviable position – it’s a pipe dream that their team right now wins a title, and their best solution is probably to start building for the future (shopping Melo). But then a) they throw out their record and revenue for the rest of the season and b) alienate their fanbase, since it looks more like they forced Melo out than him leaving on his own volition.

But then again, do they really want to look like Dan Gilbert with Lebron or Bryan Colangelo with Bosh and be stuck with really crappy teams and not much of a future?

Rock and a hard place. Going to go to bed thanking Walsh and Amare for our bright future. Even if we don’t land Melo, this team’s only going to get better.

@95
” His outstanding play has made me really question how much I want Melo knowing the Nuggets will want him (along with at least Curry and Chandler or Gallo). ”

A capped-out Knicks team without draft picks and without a solid support cast will not go very far – except in years of suffering.

Did we learn anything from the Isiah era?

I’d think at this point the goal is to solidify the current cast: trying to get a decent backup PG and a decent center. I say “decent” because I’m fully aware that it is nearly impossible to get great players at those positions right now.

I’d also want to see how good this team really is, but that can only be determined after they play the “better” part of the NBA in the next few weeks. It may very well be that we don’t need Carmelo that much…or the total opposite!

Another thing is that if the Knicks manage to stay in the hunt for a playoff spot, the pressure will be on the nuggets to get something for Carmelo instead of losing him outright to free agency. The same principle applies to all other teams: the knicks will be in a much better negotiating position if they play good basketball. If not…it’s square one. But I’d be willing to to take the gamble of waiting.

Oh my, didn’t even think about Darko here, it just fit a lot of the talk about Melo this season so well ahhaha

@97

One thing we have to be thankful for our good start is that people are paying attention now… if we can eventually keep it up until we get a playoff spot, we’ll be in a much better negotiating position, I agree with you, waiting is the best option.

I’d still trade for Carmelo if the trade was reasonable, but the only way I see it happening is if Denver freaks out and trades him for 50 cents on the dollar because they’re convinced he’s not staying and there are no better offers.

I wouldn’t do the trade right now if it meant giving back 2 out of Fields, Gallinari and Chandler, and I don’t see Denver accepting less than that unless they’re totally desperate.

Hahn is reporting that sources in the organization are saying we’re looking for a big man and a back-up point guard, with the former being more important. Have “sources in the organization” been reading the comments sections here? :-)

1) you misunderstand me, I don’t want Melo at all costs, I only want him for the right price, and the right price is not nearly what Denver wants. The price for Melo only changes should Melo agree to an extension to be traded to another team. Until that happens I think the Knicks are firmly in control of this situation.

Denver is going to lose a star and get NOTHING. So we don’t need to give up Gallo, cap space (curry) and Fields. That’s two starters, that’s flat out not close to reasonable for a player they can just wait a few more months on and just take from them with no compensation.

I do think we need to get Melo, I think it is MORE important than getting a solid five right now (hear me out I’ll explain in a minute). But I DO NOT think we should damage this team to get him. Losing Gallo in the trade for him won’t really hurt us much, they play the same position. So pick two from Douglas/Walker/Randolf and thats your trade. Nothing more.

The reason adding melo is more needed right now is this. We’ll be able to add a 5 later if we get Melo. If we get a 5 now, we can’t add Melo. So unless you believe we are a 5 away from competing for the title it doesn’t really make sense to add the 5 now at the expense of the future.

It shouldn’t remind you anything of Isiah, Isiah used the MLE for the max every year even though we were huge over cap. I’m not talking about going way over cap. I’m just saying we don’t need to save cap money, we need to use that money and get the best of whatever that money will buy. I never suggested going way over the cap and putting ourselves in that situation again. But you guys talk about it like we should be saving this cap money and not spending it. Honestly they should NEVER go into a season with cap money available. If you have a mil left, maybe that’s different, but if you have like 3-4 mil left? You can find SOMEONE serviceable and just give them a 1 year contract. Would you really rather leave that money out there? Seriously?

This is not at all what Thomas did, Thomas would take the 3 million left and sign someone to a five year deal.

And I’ll tell you right now I keep reading that NJ’s deal is still on the table. That is BULLSHIT, if that deal is on the table then MAKE THAT DEAL. If they can get Carmelo to sign an extension to the Nets, then good luck Carmelo, welcome to Jersey….

That shit is a ploy to get the knicks to up their offer. Nothing more. The Knicks need to put their offer on the table and say “that’s it!”. Take that or we’ll wait and see. At least if Melo ends up going elsewhere then it will allow the Knicks to explore trades to sure up their more pressing needs. But like I said, if Melo does only want to come to NY, then they should facilitate that in the best interests of the team.

Aharon: Hahn is reporting that sources in the organization are saying we’re looking for a big man and a back-up point guard, with the former being more important. Have “sources in the organization” been reading the comments sections here? :-) (Quote)

Isn’t it nice to finally have an organization again that actually thinks aloing the same lines as anyone with half a brain.

I think the problem with retaining Chandler, Gallo and getting Melo is the fact that they all essentially play the same position. They are all slightly long 3’s that lack the quickness or ball handling to be really effective at that position (Ok maybe Melo is effective…). Chandler and Melo are offensively capable of playing the 4 but then they are ultimately pushing Amare out of his favoured position.

Curry 11
Turiaf 4
Azu 3
Mason 1
Thats 19 million in cap space
Melo is undoubtably going to be paid the same as Amare, maybe a little less call it 16. Resigning Chandler for 3 im not sure is even allowed under league rules (someone else will know better than me). Plus if Shawn-e williams continues to play anywhere near this good then he will command at least the remainder of that 19 if not more. I say trade chandler now because denver are not going to bother trading for Curry, Mason, Azu and Turiaf. To get that deal done we are going to have to throw in another guy and a draft pick we don’t have. Which would mean trading away another player just to get the draft pick.
Curry 11
Chandler 2
azu 3/Turiaf 4
Walker .8
Currently that is almost trading Chandler for Melo, a deal I would do in a heartbeat.
Azu and Turiaf are both useful players at 3-4 mill and are really not going to fetch much more on the open market with their low profile and lingering knee issues. Resign the guy you don’t trade and the roster is rounded out pretty well.

Its going to be this time next year before Mozgov becomes anything near effective and I have to say I like him enough to be patient. Put it this way, a team of staff that has produced this years roster is extremely high on him…. They aren’t saying that for the good of their own health. a one year rental of a Chris Hunter type but to my mind Turiaf is the guy we would be trading for if we didn’t have…

I don’t mean to be a douche but the team is 10-1, playing well for the first time in a decade with likeable players and all we can talk about is f’in Melo wasn’t two years of LeBronpotheticals enough. We have a team that merits some respect on the merits can’t we just be happy. (Taggart this isn’t derected at you but in general).

Unless you’re saying they won’t take Gallo, it makes no sense for us to keep him and drop Chandler. Losing Chandler means we lose one of our best defenders and keep one of our worst. Chandler is also a better rebounder (though surprisingly only gets 1.5 more per game than Gallo), two things that our team desperately needs. I don’t what Gallo can do that Melo can’t do better… I think the team meshes much better with Melo/Chandler than Melo/Gallo.

The Knicks need more defense than offense at this point. simple observation and advanced/basic stats would confirm it. Carmelo Anthony’s positive impact on offense would be more than offset by the continued lack of defense and the lack of flexibility cap-wise.

And yes, I agree with Nick C.: the team is playing better and the talk is about somehow “going Isiah” on this promising squad. Doesn’t make much sense to me…

You all seem to be forgetting that if there is a Melo deal involving us, there is a 95% chance that it will be a 3 or 4 way deal.
-Nuggs are on record as saying they don’t like our pieces
-Karl wants to stay on as coach but not to “rebuild”
-players they have shown interest in include seasoned players like AI2, AK47 and Kevin Love.

Most likely you’d see an AR/Curry/Gallo, AR/Curry/Chandler, AR/Curry/Fields combo going to Philly with Iggy going to Denver. We might have to give a pick to Denver as well.
Doesn’t really seem worth it. If Melo absolutely can’t be swayed to go elsewhere and no one else will rent him for the rest of the year, then maybe we can lowball with something like AR/Curry/TD.
Maybe he can be talked into the Clips with Griffin there? If I’m the Clips, I offer anyone but Griffin. They could also use the same 3 way trade with Philly using Kaman, Aminu and Gordon…
Whatever happens it should be interesting…

I really don’t miss him because he often appeared more interested in displaying his familiarity (not necessarily expertise) with all sorts of stats than in finding the truth about basketball issues. He would often “pad” his arguments with hypotheticals: “yes, Gallinari is shooting poorly, but IF he had not missed the last 3 attempts he would be within his normal shooting range” – well, if my grandmother had a moustache, she would be my grandfather!

And Ted could be very rough on his “opponents”, but couldn’t take the heat when the going got rough – as several posters have noted.

Bottom line is we should all be grateful we have this little corner to discuss the knicks and not take anything too seriously or personal. It’s about having fun with our favorite team. Entertainment and nothing else.

I’ve thought of having a forum that is separate from the web page. Unfortunately the last time I implemented such a piece, it was a disaster for both the web site & the forum. I’d consider it again, but would need to find a way to make it work.

BTW Ted Nelson must be gone, because per-game stats are creeping into the comments.

I would like to say i am not overly enamoured (if that is the correct spelling) with Melo but you have to figure in the same way the chase for LeBron was enevitable so is the chase for Melo. DW would be stupid to not trade for Melo.
My real point that there is a very slim chance that we are able to afford chandler when we do sign melo and because of this we may as well trade him to the nuggets so we can keep other pieces. I would LOVE to see him on the team next year, he is one of my favourite cureent knicks. He just isn’t going to be though unless we, for better or worse, miss out on Melo.

Mike Kurylo: I’ve thought of having a forum that is separate from the web page. Unfortunately the last time I implemented such a piece, it was a disaster for both the web site & the forum. I’d consider it again, but would need to find a way to make it work.

Unfortunately I found the forum format to be less focused than the current system. There may have been 3-4 ongoing threads but they didn’t seem to be particularly active — diffused the whole experience.

I love the recent comments function on the right side of the home page — would it be helpful to add in a “recently active threads” or some such thing? Just thinking out loud.

Re: the Melo issue – I was one of the major proponents of getting Melo earlier, but watching this team play, I don’t think he’d be a great fit. We have our high usage scorer in Amare. We have 3 medium-high usage guys that score relatively efficiently when Amare’s not in the game – Gallo, Chandler, Felton. Problem is that Amare, while dominating on the offensive end, has just horrible +/- on the defensive end:

What we really need much more than more offense is more interior defense. While Melo is average-to-above average on defense, he’s certainly no better than Chandler guarding 3s, and Chandler can at least not be a liability guarding most 1s-4s. I’d love to see Varejao or Samuel Dalembert here — Dalembert is expiring and is injured/playing badly now, so maybe a reasonable chance to buy low? I’m not sure who we’d have to give up for him though.

Frank: Re: the Melo issue – I was one of the major proponents of getting Melo earlier, but watching this team play, I don’t think he’d be a great fit. We have our high usage scorer in Amare. We have 3 medium-high usage guys that score relatively efficiently when Amare’s not in the game – Gallo, Chandler, Felton. . (Quote)

Frank:
I agree that we don’t need to trade for Melo, and I too was a fan of getting him before. I don’t like what it would cost the Knicks to get him.
Currently, I like that we have a team with a focal point and then parts that complement…but I do fret about wear and tear on Amare. Having another big time offensive weapon like Melo would be valuable, giving the Knicks another top scorer when Amare is resting, but a trade, IMHO, would be too costly.
Personally, I’d like to give Mosgov more time and keep a platoon of Turiaf and Mos for at least half of the season if not more. I think Mos will improve and become a valuable asset.
Now, if the Knicks can get Melo as an FA, I’m all for it. Then the cost isn’t so high, to personnel: you hang onto some good young Knicks talent, and you get a scorer who can complement and supplement Amare.

I do think the Knicks need to pick up a back up point guard. Felton needs to get a blow. TD doesn’t feel reliable at the point, although his back injury is affecting his play, so it may not be fair to assess him just yet.
So I would cut Mason…or Walker, and then go for a back up point. Is there anyone available that…

Frank:
What we really need much more than more offense is more interior defense..

I know this has been mentioned before, but the “answer” really is on our bench in Randolph. It’s clear that D’Antoni wants to start Amare at center anyway – he’s done this effectively in the past – but Chandler is better as a 6th man than a starting pf. Randolph can defend pf’s fairly well and gets a lot of weakside blocks and rebounds. But apparently, he’s not fit to be playing AT ALL just yet. Hell, we’ve looked pretty good with Shawn(e) in there… maybe he gets the nod if he keeps his play up? Not so convinced we need another big body that can’t really play that well…