Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the
world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to
over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a
wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history,
humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced
features available, you will need to register first. Registration is
absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

I turn away simply so I don't get my face kicked. Though come to think of it, having my faced kick may be an improvement on my looks.

As for staying "live", well .... one could argue you shouldn't have to SEE it with your eyes to stay "live". What if you're blinded or it's pitch black?!? You should be able to "feel" the other person's energy and connection or lack thereof.

I turn away simply so I don't get my face kicked. Though come to think of it, having my faced kick may be an improvement on my looks.

As for staying "live", well .... one could argue you shouldn't have to SEE it with your eyes to stay "live". What if you're blinded or it's pitch black?!? You should be able to "feel" the other person's energy and connection or lack thereof.

Good point about getting kicked - but then, isn't getting hit in the face preferable (by some small degree) to getting hit in the back of the head?

And if you can't see, but detect an opening and move into it, then you could move straight into a strike; whereas if you can see where you're going...
I know what you're saying though.

I was told the reason why we turn our heads away is because with Nikyo pins and Sankyo pins - it has something to do with the artery or something in your neck that when you turn your head to face the person pinning you will go unconscious. I remember Michael Williams Sensei told us something like that a month or so ago.

In short - don't face nage/tori when they are pinning because you'll put yourself to sleep very quickly.

I was told the reason why we turn our heads away is because with Nikyo pins and Sankyo pins - it has something to do with the artery or something in your neck that when you turn your head to face the person pinning you will go unconscious. I remember Michael Williams Sensei told us something like that a month or so ago.

In short - don't face nage/tori when they are pinning because you'll put yourself to sleep very quickly.

I wasn't talking about facing tori when the pin is applied: I was talking about facing tori until it is clear the pin will be applied, and you can do nothing about it/have no chance at an opening/escape, I guess.

We teach to turn the head away on the ikkyo, nikkyo and sankyo pins, primarily because of the nikkyo and sankyo pins. On those two pins, Nage usually places his knees against the ribcage and very close to the head. Turning the face away saves teeth and noses in training. We turn the head for ikkyo just for consistency.

I wasn't talking about facing tori when the pin is applied: I was talking about facing tori until it is clear the pin will be applied, and you can do nothing about it/have no chance at an opening/escape, I guess.

Graham, I took your question to mean at what point one literally turns one's head away, which I do, say on ikkyo, pretty much when I'm about to hit the mat UNLESS there is enough slack in my (un)controlled arm that it is really easy for me to stay turned towards nage - in which case I don't actively resist at that point, but let my continued slight rotation to nage send a somatic message that something is amiss and he'd better self-correct his extension or he's blown it.

If you mean at what point do I let my center turn away from nage/tori, well, unless I'm working with a real newbie and guiding them through it via my ukemi, I don't let it turn - I may let it BE turned as part of cooperative practice depending on partner's level of training, or I may simply not turn until turned.

We teach to turn the head away on the ikkyo, nikkyo and sankyo pins, primarily because of the nikkyo and sankyo pins. On those two pins, Nage usually places his knees against the ribcage and very close to the head. Turning the face away saves teeth and noses in training. We turn the head for ikkyo just for consistency.

Agreed. Also, as in kotegaishe, in case disarming from a tanto or other weapon is sloppy and it accidentally falls, better it falls an arm's length to the side of one's head rather than on one's face.

I turn my head toward a pin when its the first time I've seen it or not sure what it is just to get a look at whats going on. This saves time from sensei having to demonstrate it again on someone else b/c I was too busy being uke to pay attention. Depending on the pin, its varies in difficulty to see what's going on, but generally I can get the gist of it...just a bit of stretch in the neck. If nage is standing and I'm on the ground its pretty hard to see whats going on up there. Anyway, I don't think I've heard many reasonings beyond the simple "its more comfortable for uke to look away from pin" so its interesting to hear others ideas here.

Janet, good point on kotogaeshi - we protect the face with the free hand and arm from the landing and through the roll-over. Regardless of standing or kneeling pin on kotogaeshi, we turn our heads away from Nage, just to protect the face as mentioned before.

I was taught how it is possible in ikkyo, nikkyo, and sankyo pins to use uke's shoulder to constrict their carotid artery and cause a lack of blood flow to the brain. However, if uke turns their head in the other direction, the pressure will contribute to the immobilazation without affecting blood flow.
So I would say that once nage starts to put downward pressure it's best to look away so the artery isn't negatively affected. As far as weak spots, I could definitely find them on the front or the back of the head, but in my opinion I'd give the face as a target before I'd give the back of the head.
Break my nose and I'll be even uglier and a bit miffed. Hit me effectively on the occipital process and I might be eating apple sauce through a straw.
FWIW,
Jeff

When someone has you in a correct pinning move, in this case Ikkyo ude osae, you are at that person's mercy. You have no real options at that point, other than to concede, tap out and move on to the next training objective.

The point that I believe is being ignored here is the role and importance of mutual courtesy, compassion and respect for the training objective itself. The training protocol, in Aikido especially, requires prudent and proven reigi or etiquette, providing realistic training for both nage and uke, in their respective roles that constantly reverse themselves for mutual benefit and balance.

In Aikido especially, the nage is given huge leeway in finishing the technique, which would be totally unrealistic and unacceptable for the uke to yield to in an actual confrontation, and life or death situation. Thus the agreement that uke allows the nage to perform the waza thoroughly without real resistance, and that the nage accepts the responsibility of keeping the uke safe from any real threat of harm, is the basis for Aikido's kata form of training.

The act of turning the face away at that point in the waza is simply uke's tacit acceptance of nage's superior position, which must then be acknowledged by nage's compassionate response and zanshin. There is no need to define winners or losers in this scenario. Properly executed, this form of training results in both being winners.

To the best of my understanding, for us, not turning the head is in some way, representative part of zanshin - being always aware of the surrounding and looking for openings. This is more mind then practice in most cases.

If you turn your head away you can do a rolling escape from those "pins".

I'd watch out with that. You will get away with it with a loose or poorly executed pin. However, a well executed pin you are liable to injury your shoulder trying to roll out of it.

I'd just like to say that rolling out of pins is my pet peeve. Mostly because that when I feel a person is gonna go for it, I just let go of them and allow them to roll. I'm not willing to risk injuring some one just to prove that my pin is awesome. lol