Rainbow Party

I still honestly can't believe people think it's a choice. I mean the people who say it's a choice are (most likely) not LGBT. So if they are not LGBT why on earth would they assume it's a choice? Did they get inside the mind of an LGBT person or something? NO. Then what better proof do they need than an actual LGB or T person confirming that indeed, it's not a choice?

As long as people keep their mind closed and think "only being like me is normal", we will have needless arguments about something that shouldn't be an issue at all. Oh well, at least I get to enjoy seeing haters getting owned and complain and freak out when they find out one more country now supports gay marriage, and that their barbaric homophobic ideals are falling apart.

Fireman

I still honestly can't believe people think it's a choice. I mean the people who say it's a choice are (most likely) not LGBT. So if they are not LGBT why on earth would they assume it's a choice? Did they get inside the mind of an LGBT person or something? NO. Then what better proof do they need than an actual LGB or T person confirming that indeed, it's not a choice?

I know a couple of people who are bisexual or gay and confirm it is a choice, but there's no point in mentioning them as you'd just go; "BUT THEY AREN'T REAL GAYS HURADPAPDPADURP", as stated before.

As for the rest of you post, I agree, but I doubt that was aimed at me in the first place.

You have to be careful exactly what you are calling a choice, doesn't matter what the sexuality involved is, but it's not just a black and white term.

Finding yourself attracted to a particular person? No, that is not choice, you could say that it's a physical reaction and applies to ANY kind of feature, be that gender, hair colour, body type, even lifestyle choices such as tattoos or clothing.

Pursuing that attraction and thus acting on your sexuality? Yes, you could say that is a choice, but that definitely doesn't change what you are physically attracted to and the meaning of sexual orientation means to define what you are physically attracted to, not who you choose to be with.

Mr. House

I still honestly can't believe people think it's a choice. I mean the people who say it's a choice are (most likely) not LGBT. So if they are not LGBT why on earth would they assume it's a choice? Did they get inside the mind of an LGBT person or something? NO. Then what better proof do they need than an actual LGB or T person confirming that indeed, it's not a choice?

I know a couple of people who are bisexual or gay and confirm it is a choice,

Fireman

How does that guarantee you're not racist? What a silly point to make.

Finding yourself attracted to a particular person? No, that is not choice, you could say that it's a physical reaction and applies to ANY kind of feature, be that gender, hair colour, body type, even lifestyle choices such as tattoos or clothing.

You believe that's not a choice? So, while I used to like/feel attracted to blonde girls until I had a bad experience with an ex-girlfriend and then became more attracted to girls with brown/black hair wasn't a choice I made because of my experiences, but it was already imprinted in my genes?

So people who switch from gay to bisexual, from bisexual to straight, or from gay to straight aren't making choices, they've just been lying to themselves for a very long time? Because according to what you said, they already should've known what aroused them.

Sorry, but if we have to choose between nature vs. nurture I'm going with that sexual orientation is based on nurture with a part choice.

Rainbow Party

@fireman What you say makes no sense. Do you know what "choice" means? You didn't choose to become more attracted to girls with brown/black hair, it just happened. You couldn't control it or decide "hey I'm gonna start liking brown/black haired girls from now on".

So I don't understand your definition of "choice".

And people don't necessarily need to know clearly what turns them on, I think. That's why people experiment.

So people who switch from gay to bisexual, from bisexual to straight, or from gay to straight aren't making choices (...)

If someone told you that they switched from gay to bi or from bi to straight or whatever, they were either trolling you or you didn't understand what they meant and they were just saying that they thought they were one and then realized they weren't.

Either way, I can't say for sure because I don't know that person. But what IS true is that it's not something you can conciously control. Try going back to liking blonde girls.

The point you make about the hair colour is a valid one, and perhaps I was wrong to include it as yes experiences could affect that kind of attraction. It is still something physical you could have no control over though, life experiences aside.

However, gender is a much bigger factor in this which was my main point. Switching sexuality like a button (choice) as straight forward as you put it is not possible, 'lying' to yourself is entirely possible, as is your sexuality only blooming when you suddenly yourself attracted to someone new. It's not all as simple as you make it out to be, especially as a straight (assuming) person you have never had to justify or even question who you like.

You perhaps should turn your own example on yourself - you believe the only thing separating you sleeping with the same sex (again assuming you are straight) is how you were brought up? Because I sure as hell don't apply that to myself and my own sexuality.

The Yokel

you believe the only thing separating you sleeping with the same sex (again assuming you are straight) is how you were brought up?

That is bullsh*t. No one can believe that. He's either lying or he's really bad at introspection. Kids experience sexual attraction long before they even know what sexual attraction is. Boys especially. I know. I remember not knowing why I liked seeing naked women on the TV. Kids don't need their mommy and daddy to teach them to like boobs or dick. They can only do harm at that point with anti-[insert sexual orientation] indoctrination.

Fireman

Obviously it's not a simple, instant choice you make and I didn't put it forward as such, I simply wanted to point out that there are people who's sexual preferences change (albeit over fifty years), does that mean they've been lying to theirselves for fifty years? If you ask them I'm sure they'd say no, but who knows, they could just be lying again.

The nurture part also isn't as simple as my parents telling me to have sex with girls because that's what they do, so that's what I do (EDIT: thanks for typing that exact example before I posted this Yokel). But I do believe anyone's sexual preferences is formed by experiences with the other/same sex, not by something imprinted at birth or something that is forced upon you. That being said, the experiences you have can be forced upon you, but you choose how to deal with these experiences, in my opinion and that's where the "choice"-part comes from.

How about people who doubt their own sexual preference? That seems hard to explain from your point of view of having physical reactions to the opposite/same sex, determined by your body. Surely this doesn't automatically make them bi- or asexual. Or are we going with that they're "all just attention-seekers".

Also Nale, clearly you don't understand sarcasm either and you get a nice 1/10 for the pagestretch.

Rainbow Party

Still, I mean considering what you just said, nothing changes the fact that you can NOT choose who you like. Okay maybe for whatever reason people change their sexual orientation like you said (I haven't met anyone like that but I'll assume it's true for this post). It doesn't mean they chose to change their sexual orientation. It just means it happened to them. You can't control or choose what you like.

You say that people choose how to deal with their experiences, that is correct. But it's a choice that depends on what you already feel and it's not like you can conciously decide to change your entire sexuality based on an experience.

And again, it's normal to NOT be sure what you like because there's a lot going on in a person's mind, between their interaction with peers, society's ideals, the way their family brings them up, etc. that it's normal not to know exactly what you are attracted to.
You are certain that you are straight (or are you?) and so are a lot of people (certain they are straight or gay or whatever). But there's a reason a lot of other people, you know, experiment.

Omnia sunt Communia

I must admit, I didn't come into this thread expecting everyone to be waving rainbow flags, but some of the responses here are quite sickening. Luckily the majority of people seem to understand how to be a half-decent human being. Though one thing that's really bothering me is this constant association with "gay = male" (e.g. "I don't care what a guy does with his dick"), as if there is no such thing as gay women (that don't exist to fulfill straight mens' fantasies) or even non-binary queer people (there are more than two genders, just putting that out there).

But in response to everyone who claims to "be okay with gays, as long as they keep it in the bedroom/don't shove it in my face/don't hit on me": You're still a homophobe. And I think this quote & comic sums you all up quite nicely:

"Homophobia: The fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women"

Audiophile

I know I never decided to be straight. I just knew that I was because it's what I was attracted to. The only choice I see in it is whether or not you make the conscious choice to actually admit it to yourself, those around you and then be true to yourself and act on it. Or you could hide it and pretend to be straight. That's the only choice I see in it and from what I know based on what friends who are gay have experienced.

Meanwhile, there are others who are attracted to both genders. It's just within them to be that way. People are people.

As for my views: I could not care less if someone is gay or straight. It doesn't effect me. Someone being gay won't make the apocalypse come, it won't end the world. It will have zero influence on your life if two people of the same sex are with each other.

The thing is, most people are uncomfortable by it because they focus too much on the fact that those people are having a different kind of sex than they are. I've found anyway. They stop seeing a gay individual as a person and all they focus on is what they do in the bedroom.

People use a lot of arguments to defend their own bigoted and ignorant view. The bible says it's wrong, cool, the bible also says you shouldn't eat shellfish and slavery is all good. You can't just pull phrases out like that to suit you.

It's not found in nature. Except it is. There are animals who have homosexuality within them.

Etc. Etc.

tl;dr: it doesn't effect you, if it makes you feel uncomfortable, great. Just don't make other people second class citizens because it makes you uncomfortable and you feel it's wrong. You have the right to feel that but leave others be as long as it doesn't effect you.

Killerdude

I know I never decided to be straight. I just knew that I was because it's what I was attracted to. The only choice I see in it is whether or not you make the conscious choice to actually admit it to yourself, those around you and then be true to yourself and act on it. Or you could hide it and pretend to be straight. That's the only choice I see in it and from what I know based on what friends who are gay have experienced.

Meanwhile, there are others who are attracted to both genders. It's just within them to be that way. People are people.

As for my views: I could not care less if someone is gay or straight. It doesn't effect me. Someone being gay won't make the apocalypse come, it won't end the world. It will have zero influence on your life if two people of the same sex are with each other.

The thing is, most people are uncomfortable by it because they focus too much on the fact that those people are having a different kind of sex than they are. I've found anyway. They stop seeing a gay individual as a person and all they focus on is what they do in the bedroom.

People use a lot of arguments to defend their own bigoted and ignorant view. The bible says it's wrong, cool, the bible also says you shouldn't eat shellfish and slavery is all good. You can't just pull phrases out like that to suit you.

It's not found in nature. Except it is. There are animals who have homosexuality within them.

Etc. Etc.

tl;dr: it doesn't effect you, if it makes you feel uncomfortable, great. Just don't make other people second class citizens because it makes you uncomfortable and you feel it's wrong. You have the right to feel that but leave others be as long as it doesn't effect you.

What sexual escapades two consenting human beings regardless of their genders partake in is no one's business. Want to have an orgy with a whole NFL team go for it, want to smoke the cock dressed up as cock while eating smoked cock, have at it, I won't judge because it's non of my, nor the government's f*cking (pun intended) business.

And for those saying homosexuality is a choice, please tell me at what age did you "choose" to be heterosexual?

Omnia sunt Communia

If homosexuality is a choice, then I guess the LGBTQ community in Russia can stop worrying. Then can just stop being gay until this whole thing has blown over, then go back to loving people of the same gender as them! Problem solved.

El Diablo

I simply wanted to point out that there are people who's sexual preferences change

I would argue that this phenomenon doesn't change the fact that homosexuality is something you're born with.

the fact that some people are so confused and seemingly go back and forth has nothing to do with casual choice and everything to do with how f*cked up the world is.

most little boys and girls are raised to be straight by their parents, their peers, their authority figures, and pop culture itself.

heterosexuality is how most of the world works.

I can only wonder how incredibly arduous it must be for young homosexuals of any stripe to begin discovering who they really are and what they really want in life. it must be 1,000 times more difficult for young gay people to mature in this world for the simple reason that their most inner thoughts and feelings are almost never reflected back at them by the outside world. everything and everyone around them is geared towards the assumption that they are a perfectly "normal" heterosexual. I can't begin to imagine what it must be like to simply try and come-of-age as a gay person; despite how much easier things have gotten for them recently.

if some of them have a really hard time accepting their nature or finding their place, I really can't hold that against them.

it really doesn't change the fact that they were born with their instincts - it's the rest of society that throws them off the path.

TheFoxRiverFugitive

Well I'm a bisexual, but I want absolutely nothing to do with the "pride" movements or gay rights campaigns. I keep my orientation to myself, you know, where it belongs. I am pro gay marriage though, mainly because my brother is big on the movement and I think the ban is completely senseless.

Melchior

I don't really care if a guy is gay or not while they're not putting the moves on me or putting the moves on each other around me to the point where it's seriously over the top.

This

So how exactly do we define "over the top"?

This is a huge double standard. I've made out with girls while literally lying on top of them on a park bench, groping each other and nobody has said a damn thing. Like police have driven by and been like "meh, horny kids...". Heterosexual couples make out in pubs and restaurants and even on public transport depending on how much they've been drinking. High school kids f*cking in a car is a right of passage. The rule seems to be that if the sun is down, you can do what you want as long as you have different genitalia and said genitalia aren't exposed. But gay people "putting the moves on each other" is somehow over the top!?

Frank Brown

I don't really care if a guy is gay or not while they're not putting the moves on me or putting the moves on each other around me to the point where it's seriously over the top.

This

So how exactly do we define "over the top"?

This is a huge double standard. I've made out with girls while literally lying on top of them on a park bench, groping each other and nobody has said a damn thing. Like police have driven by and been like "meh, horny kids...". Heterosexual couples make out in pubs and restaurants and even on public transport depending on how much they've been drinking. High school kids f*cking in a car is a right of passage. The rule seems to be that if the sun is down, you can do what you want as long as you have different genitalia and said genitalia aren't exposed. But gay people "putting the moves on each other" is somehow over the top!?

I'm with them. I hate seeing people borderline-f*cking in public. I don't know anyone who's like, "That's awesome! I want to see that!"

Melchior

I'm with them. I hate seeing people borderline-f*cking in public. I don't know anyone who's like, "That's awesome! I want to see that!"

There's a bit of a difference between "everyone should keep it in the bedroom" and "gays should keep in the bedroom and just stay off my radar altogether, otherwise I'm tolerant." Most people are entirely indifferent to public displays of affection, as long as its heterosexual.

Frank Brown

I'm with them. I hate seeing people borderline-f*cking in public. I don't know anyone who's like, "That's awesome! I want to see that!"

There's a bit of a difference between "everyone should keep it in the bedroom" and "gays should keep in the bedroom and just stay off my radar altogether, otherwise I'm tolerant." Most people are entirely indifferent to public displays of affection, as long as its heterosexual.

No one's arguing that gays shouldn't be able to show PDA. If someone takes issues with gays specifically doing that, they're bigots. I personally hate any PDA aside from the hug or a quick kiss. I wouldn't want to see you groping your numerous girlfriends on a bench. I'd wish pigeons would sh*t on you if you did that just to get you to stop.

Eris

Melchior is right. I've woken up to find people f*cking in the same bed as I was sleeping in, and nobody minded. But as soon as two guys kiss each other in public everyone freaks out. There is a double standard with gay and straights when in comes to public displays of affection.

A J

But as soon as two guys kiss each other in public everyone freaks out. There is a double standard with gay and straights when in comes to public displays of affection.

There is a time and place for displays of affection, and for the most part I don't think there is a double standard. For example if a straight couple are kissing in public, people who don't know them will even say 'get a room'. I've not seen many gays showing displays of affection in public, but I can't imagine it would be too different. A few of my gay friends on facebook seem intent as hell to make the point they fancy men, and what the hell is up with all those gay pride marches, gay shouldn't feel the need to push their sexuality in our faces, thankfully many are reserved about it, lesbians especially.