Oddly, I thought that whilst Quinto did a superb job as Spock overall, this was really not one of his better moments. His yell came across very flat to me, no intensity or emotion in it.

Look at Shatner's yell :

First, look at the context. Khan's wonderful little speech, dripping with malice and yet delivered in such a calm manner. "I shall leave you as you left me, as you left her, marooned for all eternity at the centre of a dead planet. Buried alive... buried alive..."

And that last bit... I always wondered about that. We see him say "buried alive", and then cut to Kirk and hear it again. So is that Kirk hearing what Khan just said, and we're hearing the same thing twice? Or did Khan actually say it twice? Because if he said it twice, it's even more creepy! It's like he's trying to relive the thought over and over, as if merely saying the words is giving him a thrill. It's chilling!

And then look at Kirk. He's quite literally shaking with anger in the moments before he yells. You see his rage before you ever hear it. And although fans tend to write it as something like "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!" the yell itself is actually quite restrained. It lasts one beat, no more or less. I wonder if it doesn't get overblown in people's memories because we subsequently hear an echo, which makes it feel like it goes on longer than it does - and incidentally, hearing it twice is a very deliberate echo of a moment ago, when we heard Khan say "buried alive..." twice. The villain and the hero mirror one another, because this is Kirk lost in rage exactly the way that Khan is lost in rage. A subtle little touch, yes?

And look at the camera, the way it pushes in on Kirk, emphasising him, increasing our connection with him. This few seconds is FULL of subtle little clever touches. No, it is emphatically not just "Oh, Shatner over acted."

Now Quinto :

There's basically nothing. Spock looks kind of angry, in a subdued way. He slowly looks up and yells "Khaaaaaaaan" - and note, unlike Shatner he does keep it going for quite a while. But there's no real power in it, and no real emotion to it. Maybe Quinto just doesn't have the voice for yelling the way Shatner has or something, but it seems rather weak to me. And there's nothing much in the way of non-verbal stuff going on in the moment. The music swells to it, but that's about it.

To me it comes across very much as a scene that JJ thought would be a big deal to the fans, but without his really having any understanding of why the original was so impactful.

Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...

I always appreciate those little moments in the Jaybrams universe, that harken back to the original timeline. They remind us that some things in every possible universe, remain the same. There were a few too many of those in this film, culminating in the half hearted Khan yell.

Oddly, I thought that whilst Quinto did a superb job as Spock overall, this was really not one of his better moments. His yell came across very flat to me, no intensity or emotion in it.

Look at Shatner's yell :

First, look at the context. Khan's wonderful little speech, dripping with malice and yet delivered in such a calm manner. "I shall leave you as you left me, as you left her, marooned for all eternity at the centre of a dead planet. Buried alive... buried alive..."

And that last bit... I always wondered about that. We see him say "buried alive", and then cut to Kirk and hear it again. So is that Kirk hearing what Khan just said, and we're hearing the same thing twice? Or did Khan actually say it twice? Because if he said it twice, it's even more creepy! It's like he's trying to relive the thought over and over, as if merely saying the words is giving him a thrill. It's chilling!

And then look at Kirk. He's quite literally shaking with anger in the moments before he yells. You see his rage before you ever hear it. And although fans tend to write it as something like "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!" the yell itself is actually quite restrained. It lasts one beat, no more or less. I wonder if it doesn't get overblown in people's memories because we subsequently hear an echo, which makes it feel like it goes on longer than it does - and incidentally, hearing it twice is a very deliberate echo of a moment ago, when we heard Khan say "buried alive..." twice. The villain and the hero mirror one another, because this is Kirk lost in rage exactly the way that Khan is lost in rage. A subtle little touch, yes?

And look at the camera, the way it pushes in on Kirk, emphasising him, increasing our connection with him. This few seconds is FULL of subtle little clever touches. No, it is emphatically not just "Oh, Shatner over acted."

Now Quinto :

There's basically nothing. Spock looks kind of angry, in a subdued way. He slowly looks up and yells "Khaaaaaaaan" - and note, unlike Shatner he does keep it going for quite a while. But there's no real power in it, and no real emotion to it. Maybe Quinto just doesn't have the voice for yelling the way Shatner has or something, but it seems rather weak to me. And there's nothing much in the way of non-verbal stuff going on in the moment. The music swells to it, but that's about it.

To me it comes across very much as a scene that JJ thought would be a big deal to the fans, but without his really having any understanding of why the original was so impactful.

Very good comparison.

I rolled my eyes and literally facepalmed at it. I just found it to be so stupid.

I actually liked the exchange before Spock yells, mirroring Spock's death scene in Wrath of Khan. But then, Spock yells and ruins the moment. I bet the writers thought it was clever and it would be funny, but it was ill-timed and out of character.

"What has been done has been done and cannot be undone."--Ruth, All the Weyrs of Pern"Dragons can't change who they are, and who would want them to? Dragons are powerful, amazing creatures."--Hiccup, Dragons: Riders of Berk

It felt incredibly forced. I just watched this on TV again today and the movie does not hold up well. Once any idea of suspense or surprise is lost, there's a lot of unoriginal formulaic throwbacks in this one, and it all feels so inorganic and trite.

Don't you hear my call, though you're many years away, don't you hear me calling you?

Bryan Moore wrote:It felt incredibly forced. I just watched this on TV again today and the movie does not hold up well. Once any idea of suspense or surprise is lost, there's a lot of unoriginal formulaic throwbacks in this one, and it all feels so inorganic and trite.

I can't believe I am about to type this but, my first impression after watching this movie was that I got a 9/11 Truther vibe.

Bryan Moore wrote:It felt incredibly forced. I just watched this on TV again today and the movie does not hold up well. Once any idea of suspense or surprise is lost, there's a lot of unoriginal formulaic throwbacks in this one, and it all feels so inorganic and trite.

I can't believe I am about to type this but, my first impression after watching this movie was that I got a 9/11 Truther vibe.

Bryan Moore wrote:It felt incredibly forced. I just watched this on TV again today and the movie does not hold up well. Once any idea of suspense or surprise is lost, there's a lot of unoriginal formulaic throwbacks in this one, and it all feels so inorganic and trite.

I can't believe I am about to type this but, my first impression after watching this movie was that I got a 9/11 Truther vibe.

I... I need context for this. Please?

Well, the Truthers believe that the government, or a faction in the government, planned/allowed the terrorists to get on the planes and crash the planes. That allowed the government, and public opinion, to declare war on the Middle East. Hence that 9/11/ Truther motto, "9/11 was an inside job!" They believe conspirators can control the terrorists' actions down to a T. They're the kind of people who believe that mass shooting are planned and executed by the government. One of the things they say is that the World Trade Center was sabotaged to collapse so quickly as it did. Something about falling at the rate of gravity.

When Khan reveals that Marcus sabotaged Enterprise's warp drive, intending for the Klingons to destroy the ship after it fired on Kronos, creating an act of war by the Klingon Empire, I felt that "9/11 was an inside job!" vibe. "The Klingon War was an inside job." Admiral Marcus somehow sabotages Enterprise at the right time to allow it to fire the missiles, not escape, be destroyed by the Klingons, and lead to war.

I felt so weird about it, that I decided to research who wrote this movie. Turns out Roberto Orci, one of the writers, is a 9/11 Truther,