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Does no one on the right not understand that people in Norway don't want to move to the US since what they have now is better. In fact, on a proportional basis, Norway takes more immigrants than the US.

My great grandfather immigrated from Norway. I've never been there, I assume its a shithole.

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Does no one on the right not understand that people in Norway don't want to move to the US since what they have now is better. In fact, on a proportional basis, Norway takes more immigrants than the US.

You are either being purposefully obtuse or you are just plain dumb. Norway, along with a dozen or more countries take in more immigrants than does the US but without the fuss and bother. Trump has used the xenophobia or racism, pick a term, of a large segment of the white population to build his political base. Personally he could care less for poor non-whites except that he is able to hire them cheaply at his properties. I think when he is at Mar-a-Lago it might be a good idea to eat only at randomly selected Mickey Dees. Eating a steak cooked in his kitchens might not be wise.

How could Trump supporters not understand that they are being played by a very canny conman. He wants to bring manufacturing back to the US but makes no effort to do so with his own products. He goes on about immigrants from poor countries but is happy to exploit them in his businesses.

He suggested the “pretty Korean lady,” who was talking about Pakistan, be reassigned to North Korea.

n the wake of President Trump’s comment about wanting to stop immigration from “shithole countries,”NBC Newsdid a deep dive into Trump’s history of racist comments. The piece, published on Friday and written by Vivian Salama and Hallie Jackson, begins with an eye-opening anecdote about a White House intelligence briefing derailed by Trump’s racial issues:

A career intelligence analyst who is an expert in hostage policy stood before President Donald Trump in the Oval Office last fall to brief him on the impending release of a family long held in Pakistan under uncertain circumstances.

It was her first time meeting the president, and when she was done briefing, he had a question for her.

”Where are you from?” the president asked, according to two officials with direct knowledge of the exchange.

New York, she replied.

Trump was unsatisfied and asked again, the officials said. Referring to the president’s hometown, she offered that she, too, was from Manhattan. But that’s not what the president was after.

He wanted to know where “your people” are from, according to the officials, who spoke off the record due to the nature of the internal discussions.

After the analyst revealed that her parents are Korean, Trump turned to an adviser in the room and seemed to suggest her ethnicity should determine her career path, asking why the “pretty Korean lady” isn’t negotiating with North Korea on his administration’s behalf, the officials said.

A few thoughts on this anecdote, sourced to “two officials with direct knowledge of the exchange”:

Think carefully about what the president is saying here. By asking her “where are you from” and not accepting New York as an answer, he’s implying that children of Asian immigrants can never truly be “from” America. This isn’t just simple bigotry; it feels like a rejection of the classic American “melting pot” ideal altogether.

Trump was so distracted by the question of his briefer’s ethnic background that he interrupted a briefing on hostages held by a terrorist group in Pakistan to interrogate her about it. This suggests he wasn’t really paying attention to what she was saying — that racism literally distracted him from doing his job.

Trump’s racism seems to make him a truly terrible manager. There’s no reason that being of Korean descent means an intelligence expert on hostage situations should be reassigned to North Korea, let alone put in charge of nuclear negotiations.

Let’s not sleep on the sexism of calling her a “pretty Korean lady,” reducing a professional woman to her physical appearance.

The intelligence community lags behind the rest of the government on racial diversity and gender equity. It is 10 percentage points whiter than the US government average, per a2016 survey, and about 5 percentage points more male. This woman probably had to overcome a lot to get to where she ended up, and this is where she landed.

In sum: The president of the United States, the person who’s supposed to represent the best of the country, behaved in a fashion that would likely get a midlevel manager at a company fired. It’s just another day in the Trump White House.

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You are either being purposefully obtuse or you are just plain dumb. Norway, along with a dozen or more countries take in more immigrants than does the US but without the fuss and bother. Trump has used the xenophobia or racism, pick a term, of a large segment of the white population to build his political base. Personally he could care less for poor non-whites except that he is able to hire them cheaply at his properties. I think when he is at Mar-a-Lago it might be a good idea to eat only at randomly selected Mickey Dees. Eating a steak cooked in his kitchens might not be wise.

How could Trump supporters not understand that they are being played by a very canny conman. He wants to bring manufacturing back to the US but makes no effort to do so with his own products. He goes on about immigrants from poor countries but is happy to exploit them in his businesses.

You didn't explain how it is a relevant metric. It might be showing the opposite of what you purport. What if the US opened up its immigration policy. Do you think that Norway would still take in more?

You didn't explain how it is a relevant metric. It might be showing the opposite of what you purport. What if the US opened up its immigration policy. Do you think that Norway would still take in more?

OK, I will take it that you are in fact just dumb. I have nothing further to say.

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OK, I will take it that you are in fact just dumb. I have nothing further to say.

Ok, clown, it is like this. A country that is more desirable might not be letting everyone and their asshole brother in. A country more desperate for immigrants might let many more people in. It is a metric that shows the opposite of what you contend.

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I am going to have to agree with Michael Steele, at this point there is no real question as to Trump's racism. Any reasonable doubt has been removed by his own words. With that being said, until he is out of office, legislators will need to continue to work with him, and the military will need to continue following his orders. My preference would be to see his impeachment proceed in short order, but if someone does work with him to advance a non-racist piece of legislation they both support, I don't believe that makes the legislator racist.

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How many times should a person make slightly-over-the-line racist comments before you are willing to conclude he is in fact a racist? Forever?

Frankly I don't understand the outrage. It's just more of the same; now if he'd proposed putting the KKK in charge of immigration vetting, now that would be ........ well, never mind. Some would take it as a suggestion.

-DSK

don't understand the outrage myself, and it is just more of the same, i.e. a shameless, pathetic circus..zzz, zzz

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I think that many of us had ill informed attitudes to a whole host of things 50 years ago. What was not considered "racist" then certainly would be today. I know I'm still "guilty" of subconscious racist thoughts.

The difference is I acknowledge them for what they are, a hangover from attitudes learned in childhood from overtly racist parents and relations..I've learned whats ignorant and wrong. The trouble is that some people are too insecure to examine their thoughts and attitudes.

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I think that many of us had ill informed attitudes to a whole host of things 50 years ago. What was not considered "racist" then certainly would be today. I know I'm still "guilty" of subconscious racist thoughts.

The difference is I acknowledge them for what they are, a hangover from attitudes learned in childhood from overtly racist parents and relations..I've learned whats ignorant and wrong. The trouble is that some people are too insecure to examine their thoughts and attitudes.

Agreed. Fifty years ago I thought my pants were a perfectly suitable place to crap.

One of my earliest memories though was of my father taking me aside and telling me that he never, ever wanted to hear me say the word "Nigger". It wasn't a punishment or scolding. I just remember him stopping me on the front yard when we were out there together and saying it.

This was pretty young, since it was when we lived in RI before I moved out to Ohio in 1972. So I was maybe four or five. Probably there were neighborhood kids saying it around me and he wanted to make sure I was sorted, though I was certainly young enough to be picking up words from other kids.

People tend to learn these things at their parent's knees. One of my grandmothers was of the old school racist AF when you asked her about it, though it was New England style, as you wouldn't talk about it or say anything unless pressed. My liberal parents had some disagreements with her when they had a black friend stay on their couch for a while shortly after they got married.... We had a discussion where I learned that she thought the internment of the Japanese was good and proper and probably saved lives, but got quite indignant when I suggested that her father and grandparents should have been interned then too, since they only spoke German in the home when her father was young. "It's DIFFERENT" she maintained, though couldn't explain why. My great-grandfather spoke English, but his parents were fresh off the boat Germans and never really learned English well enough to speak it at home (I guess I can say "krauts" and "micks" given my ancestry, eh?") What's weird though is my Great-grandfather never seemed to have his daughter's prejudices; I think she learned them from her mother.

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Racism : prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

very different to being in favor of .

Really....SJB said in another thread that when he got a Pilipino job applicant they were likely to get the job. If instead he had said that when he got a white applicant they were likely to get the job would you view that the same way? Favoring one race over another is racism.

Trump initially allowed reported accounts of his comments to go unchallenged, but went into damage limitation mode on Friday, insisting he had not used derogatory words – but admitting that the language he had used at a meeting with Senators on immigration was “tough”.

But the democratic senator Dick Durbin – who was present at the meeting with Trump on Thursday – insisted that the reports were entirely accurate.

Trump's 'shithole' comments 'racist and vile', says top Democrat – video He said “those hate-filled things and did so repeatedly”.

“Shithole was the exact word used once not twice but repeatedly,” Durbin said, adding that the word was specifically used in the context of African countries.

The UN human rights spokesman, Rupert Colville, told a Geneva news briefing: “There is no other word one can use but racist. You cannot dismiss entire countries and continents as ‘shitholes’, whose entire populations, who are not white, are therefore not welcome.”

Trump's 'shithole countries' remark is racist, says UN - video Salvador Sánchez, the president of El Salvador, said Trump’s words had “struck at the dignity of Salvadorans”.

“El Salvador formally protests and energetically rejects this kind of comment,” Sánchez wrote on Twitter.

US diplomats and the US embassy in San Salvador sought to assure those in El Salvador of their respect for the country. Jean Manes, the US envoy to El Salvador, tweeted in Spanish: “I have had the privilege to travel around this beautiful country and meet thousands of Salvadorans. It is an honour to live and work here. We remain 100% committed.”

Robin Diallo, the US chargé d’affaires to Haiti, was summoned to meet the Haitian president, Jovenel Moïse, to discuss the remarks. The former Haitian president Laurent Lamothe expressed his dismay, saying Trump had shown “a lack of respect and ignorance”.

Across Africa there was diplomatic fury. Botswana’s government called Trump’s comment “reprehensible and racist” and said the US ambassador had been summoned to clarify whether the nation was regarded as a “shithole” country after years of cordial relations.

Uganda’s state minister for international relations, Henry Okello Oryem, called the remarks “unfortunate and regrettable”.

The African Union said it was alarmed by Trump’s language. “Given the historical reality of how many Africans arrived in the United States as slaves, this statement flies in the face of all accepted behaviour and practice,” its spokeswoman Ebba Kalondo told Associated Press.

Jessie Duarte, the deputy secretary general of South Africa’s ruling ANC, said: “Ours is not a shithole country; neither is Haiti or any other country in distress. It’s not as if the United States doesn’t have problems. There is unemployment in the US, there are people who don’t have healthcare services.”

Mmusi Maimane (@MmusiMaimane) The comments referred to here are abhorrent. He confirms a patronizing view of Africa and promotes a racist agenda. Africa/US relations will take strain from this, with a leader who has failed to reconcile humanity. The hatred of Obama’s roots now extends to an entire continent https://t.co/Kq09tVu0BoJanuary 12, 2018

The US state department tried to pour water on the flames, issuing a tweet from its Bureau of African Affairs saying that “the United States will continue to robustly, enthusiastically and forcefully engage in #Africa, promoting this vital relationship”.

Mexico’s former president, Vicente Fox, who has been an outspoken critic of Trump, said in a colourful tweet that “America’s greatness was built on diversity”. He added Trump’s mouth was “the foulest shithole in the world. With what authority do you announce who is welcome in America and who is not? America’s greatness is based on diversity, or have you forgotten your migration background, Donald?”

David Miliband, the president of the International Rescue Committee, said Trump’s comments were leading a “race to the bottom on refugees”.

Trump has made few references to Africa since his election, and many senior Africa-focused posts in his administration remain unfilled.

In September, he appeared to invent a new country called Nambia while addressing African leaders in Washington. Trump also told them: “I have so many friends going to your countries, trying to get rich. It has a tremendous business potential.”

The US government’s Africa Media Hub made an effort to limit the diplomatic damage of the president’s words.

Without directly referring to Trump’s statement, a tweet said the “US remains committed to working together w/Africans to realize the promise of a more peaceful, more productive, more prosperous 21st century Africa. US deeply respects the people of #Africa & values its partnerships with them.”

Standing at a coffee stall outside an office block in Rosebank, a commercial and business neighbourhood in central Johannesburg, Blessing Dlamini, a 45-year-old administrative assistant, said Trump’s words came as “no surprise”.

“He has shown the world he is a racist. We should just block him from our thoughts,” Dlamini said.

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I think that many of us had ill informed attitudes to a whole host of things 50 years ago. What was not considered "racist" then certainly would be today. I know I'm still "guilty" of subconscious racist thoughts.

The difference is I acknowledge them for what they are, a hangover from attitudes learned in childhood from overtly racist parents and relations..I've learned whats ignorant and wrong. The trouble is that some people are too insecure to examine their thoughts and attitudes.

Another problem is that a lot of people seem to LIKE hateful nonsense.

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ah..but then went straight to yearning for Norway...maybe he's just simply stupid but if one says they don't want Africans and prefer Norwegians most people with the slightest sensibility will assume they are not talking about a preference for Herring.

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Norway is not a shithole country. He didn't mention race. You have no proof of anything. Neither of us knows what is in his heart and mind. Meanwhile, you are just smearing him.

That being said, he is wrong. He is wrong just like all you clown protectionists are wrong. We would all be better off if there was free trade including the free flow of labor and including no government supported unions.

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Norway is not a shithole country. He didn't mention race. You have no proof of anything. Neither of us knows what is in his heart and mind. Meanwhile, you are just smearing him.

That being said, he is wrong. He is wrong just like all you clown protectionists are wrong. We would all be better off if there was free trade including the free flow of labor and including no government supported unions.

But wrong on trade does not make one a racist. Stick to the facts.

You are nose blind. Like the cat owner who doesn't smell the urine on the carpet, your own racism clouds your ability to see it in others.

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Really....SJB said in another thread that when he got a Pilipino job applicant they were likely to get the job. If instead he had said that when he got a white applicant they were likely to get the job would you view that the same way? Favoring one race over another is racism.

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Let's be honest. The left doesn't give a rats ass whether Trump is racist or not. It is a political smear tactic and nothing more.

Let's be honest. I think you are a shithole. This is a personal opinion, and nothing more.

I care about American values and traditions. I care about equal treatment under the law. I care that my wife was born in (shithole) Vietnam with her 10 brothers and sisters and that they came off food stamps despite having "no skills" and ALL went to college. They are now are doctors, engineers and pharmacists, paying back a thousandfold their indebtedness to America with cheerful, diligent effort. America in some way met national obligations incurred by that spasm of violence and enabled her to leave the day Saigon fell. I care that you and your ilk would denigrate America's proud history and difficult days and sell it for momentary political advantage.

You are disappointing. Go find some morals and some patriotism, then come back and chat. I like immigrants more than I like you and other deplorable Americans.

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I am going to have to agree with Michael Steele, at this point there is no real question as to Trump's racism. Any reasonable doubt has been removed by his own words.

Steele comes on to a local radio show once/week. The thing you don't pick up in reading his thoughts about Trump is his anger and frustration. He was seriously pissed off in the interview. For some reason, the segment isn't posted online yet. Anyhow, I've never heard him so riled up.

Donald Trump Flushes Away America’s Reputation

For a fleetingmomentTuesday, President Trump seemed to signal he would do the right thing on immigration. At a 90-minute meeting with congressional Republicans and Democrats, much of it televised, he said he’d be willing to “take the heat” for a broad immigration deal of the sort urgently needed by the country and despised by his hard-core base.

Alas, it was all a charade. The real Donald Trump was back two days later with his now notorious “shithole” remark, asking why the United States should accept people from placeslike Haiti or Africainstead of nice Nordic countries like Norway, and then tweeting his tiresome demands for a “Great Wall” along the Mexican border.

Never mind that Norwegians are not clamoring to leave what is rated as thehappiest nation on earth, and setting aside renewed questions about Mr. Trump’s fitness, the flip-flop left the issue of immigration more confused than before.

Where to begin? How about with a simple observation: The president of the United States is a racist. And another: The United States has a long and ugly history of excluding immigrants based on race or national origin. Mr. Trump seems determined to undo efforts taken by presidents of both parties in recent decades to overcome that history.

Mr. Trumpdenied making the remarkson Friday, but Senator Richard Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, who attended the meeting, said the president did in fact say these “hate-filled things, and he said them repeatedly.”

Of course he did. Remember, Mr. Trump is not just racist, ignorant, incompetent and undignified.He’s also a liar.

Even the president’s most sycophantic defenders didn’t bother denying the reports. Instead they justified them. Places like Haiti really are terrible, they reminded us. Never mind that many native-born Americans are descended from immigrants who fled countries (including Norway in the second half of the 19th century) that were considered hellholes at the time.

No one is denying that Haiti and some of these other countries have profound problems today. Of course, those problems are often adirect result of policies and actions of the United States and European nations: to name just a few, kidnapping and enslaving their citizens; plundering their natural resources; propping up their dictators and corrupt regimes; and holding them financially hostage for generations.

The United States has long held itself out as a light among nations based on the American ideal of equality. But the deeper history tells a different story.

The sociologists David Scott FitzGerald and David Cook-Martinhave shownthat the United States pioneered racially based exclusionary immigration policies in the Americas in the late 18th and 19th centuries. (Not long before he was elected president, for example, Theodore Roosevelt asserted the bigoted but then-common view that the Chinese should be kept out of America because they were “racially inferior.”)

It should sober Americans to know that authoritarian governments in Chile, Cuba and Uruguay ended racist immigration policies decades before the United States.

The current turmoil over immigration conflates several separate issues. One is DACA, the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, which has provided temporary work permits and reprieves from deportation for undocumented immigrants brought to the United States as children. These are the so-called Dreamers, who number about 800,000.

Another issue is the Temporary Protected Status program under which undocumented foreigners who were in the United States when disaster or conflict struck their homeland are allowed to remain in the United States. In November, the Trump administrationended the protectionfor about 60,000 Haitians, and on Monday the administration lifted it for almost 200,000 Salvadorans, most of whom have been in the United States for two decades.

A third issue is the future of the roughly 11 million undocumented immigrants who have come to the United States over decades and have effectively integrated into American life. The Trump administration has ordered a broad immigration crackdown against them.

And finally there’s President Trump’s imagined wall.

What is concerning is not the wall, or the word “shithole” or the vacillation on the Dreamers or the Salvadorans. It’s what ties all of these things together: the bigoted worldview of the man behind them.

Anyone who has followed Mr. Trump over the years knows this. We knew it in the 1970s, when he and his father were twicesued by the Justice Departmentfor refusing to rent apartments to black people. We knew it in 1989, when he took out a full-page newspaper ad calling for the execution of five black and Latino teenagers charged with the brutal rape of a white woman in Central Park. (The men were convicted but later exonerated by DNA and other evidence, but Mr. Trump never apologized, and he continued to argueas late as 2016that the men were guilty.) We knew it when he built a presidential campaign by demonizing Mexicans and Muslims while promoting the lie that America’s first black president wasn’t born here. Or when, last summer, he defended marchers in a neo-Nazi parade as “very fine people.”

Just last month, The Times reported on an Oval Office meeting on immigrationduring which Mr. Trump saidthat the 15,000 Haitians now living in the United States “all have AIDS,” and that Nigerian immigrants would never “go back to their huts” in Africa once they had seen the United States. See a pattern yet?

Donald Trump is by no means America’s first racist president. But he ran a campaign explicitly rooted in bigotry, exclusion and white resentment. To his die-hard but ever-shrinking base, comments like those he made Thursday only reaffirm his solidarity with the cause. The Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi website,certainly saw it this way.“This is encouraging and refreshing, as it indicates Trump is more or less on the same page as us with regards to race and immigration,” the site wrote in a post.

The meeting at which Mr. Trump spewed his vulgarity was meant to be a discussion of bipartisan immigration proposals by Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, and Mr. Durbin. Two other Republicans, John Kasich and Jeb Bush Jr., are the authors ofan Op-Edarticle in Thursday’s Times arguing against the forced expulsion of undocumented immigrants who have made a home in the United States. This shouldn’t be a hard call, especially with the economy growing modestly but steadily and unemployment hovering around 4 percent.

Instead, Republicans in Congress are spending most of their time finding ways to avoid talking about their openly bigoted chief executive. Some claimed not to have heard what Mr. Trump said. Others offered tepid defenses of his “salty” talk. House Speaker Paul Ryan called Mr. Trump’s comments “unhelpful,” clearly wishing he could return to his daily schedule of enriching the wealthiest Americans.

Mr. Trump has made clear that he has no useful answers on immigration. It’s up to Congress to fashion long-term, humane solutions. A comprehensive immigration bill that resolves all these issues would be best. But if that is not possible, given the resistance of hard-core anti-immigration activists in Congress, legislators should at least join forces to protect the Dreamers, Salvadorans, Haitians and others threatened by the administration’s cruel and chaotic actions.

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What majority? The majority is outraged, and the party of Lincoln is silent.

Ask the author of the statement. I found his shithole comment wrong on every level, but at the same time I believe we need to move to a merit based immigration system that uses the immigrants ability to contribute rather than exploit. That had zero to do with race. A doctor from Africa would be just as welcome as one from Norway.

Ask the author of the statement. I found his shithole comment wrong on every level, but at the same time I believe we need to move to a merit based immigration system that uses the immigrants ability to contribute rather than exploit. That had zero to do with race. A doctor from Africa would be just as welcome as one from Norway.

Then who will clean your swimming pool and pick your strawberries?

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Ask the author of the statement. I found his shithole comment wrong on every level, but at the same time I believe we need to move to a merit based immigration system that uses the immigrants ability to contribute rather than exploit. That had zero to do with race. A doctor from Africa would be just as welcome as one from Norway.

America has always been a cultural and demographic experiment. We are and have always been a nation of immigrants. There is a shift in our feelings about immigration, and I am relaxed about letting the masses come to our shores but understand how some like yourself want to raise the drawbridge. I think that your views as we move down the road, will be seen as an antiquated idea and I hope your idea about immigration ends up in the dustbin of history.

America is not going to be changed by an immigration boom, we have had them before and got through them just fine. America was never supposed to look like a Norman Rockwell painting and we have done far better celebrating diversity than trying to lock it out.

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I'm from a multi race family and guess what, we all think Trump is awesome! I have done many trips to these countries mentioned and yes the countries suck not the people and that's what Trump was saying bonehead!

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America has always been a cultural and demographic experiment. We are and have always been a nation of immigrants. There is a shift in our feelings about immigration, and I am relaxed about letting the masses come to our shores but understand how some like yourself want to raise the drawbridge. I think that your views as we move down the road, will be seen as an antiquated idea and I hope your idea about immigration ends up in the dustbin of history.

America is not going to be changed by an immigration boom, we have had them before and got through them just fine. America was never supposed to look like a Norman Rockwell painting and we have done far better celebrating diversity than trying to lock it out.

I have no problem letting people in as long as they pay their own way. Bringing people in that suck on the government tit is something we can no longer afford.

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I have no problem letting people in as long as they pay their own way. Bringing people in that suck on the government tit is something we can no longer afford.

We built this nation on the backs of immigrants and they prospered and thrived. The responsibility lies with the government to ensure that the influx of immigrants have jobs and can contribute without ending up on the government teat.

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Ask the author of the statement. I found his shithole comment wrong on every level, but at the same time I believe we need to move to a merit based immigration system that uses the immigrants ability to contribute rather than exploit. That had zero to do with race. A doctor from Africa would be just as welcome as one from Norway.

Well, there you go again.

WTF would a doctor move into the USA?

Over the past umpty years (since WW2), the USA has been a place where smart young people from anywhere in the world CAN BECOME doctors. In one short year, that has reversed.

There is a tide now where PhD level professionals from other coutries and other cultures are moving "back home" and in some cases having a hard time adjusting. Same reason we don't need a wall anymore, even if Mexico does pay for it: furriners are not welcome and don't want to come here. Even with record employment.

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Let's be honest. The left doesn't give a rats ass whether Trump is racist or not. It is a political smear tactic and nothing more.

Let's be honest. I think you are a shithole. This is a personal opinion, and nothing more.

I care about American values and traditions. I care about equal treatment under the law. I care that my wife was born in (shithole) Vietnam with her 10 brothers and sisters and that they came off food stamps despite having "no skills" and ALL went to college. They are now are doctors, engineers and pharmacists, paying back a thousandfold their indebtedness to America with cheerful, diligent effort. America in some way met national obligations incurred by that spasm of violence and enabled her to leave the day Saigon fell. I care that you and your ilk would denigrate America's proud history and difficult days and sell it for momentary political advantage.

You are disappointing. Go find some morals and some patriotism, then come back and chat. I like immigrants more than I like you and other deplorable Americans.

The funny thing, when The Right does away with birth right citizenship, he can be stripped of his. Something to look forward to.

-DSK

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Ask the author of the statement. I found his shithole comment wrong on every level, but at the same time I believe we need to move to a merit based immigration system that uses the immigrants ability to contribute rather than exploit. That had zero to do with race. A doctor from Africa would be just as welcome as one from Norway.

You ignore the lessons of history if this is your immigration policy.

The persons fleeing economic devastation are frickin' motivated to improve themselves and their families. You do not find sizable numbers of professionals willing to move to other countries without families and friends. What America has benefited from is providing a land of opportunity to people who want more for their families finding that very opportunity here.

The current backlash against these people makes it difficult for them to succeed. Essentially, GOP policies of restricting healthcare for the masses, having race and religious tests for immigration, and appearing to support racism and economic warfare against the poor prevent persons rising from the lower classes into the middle and upper class.

To MAGA, we have to invest in infrastructure, education, reduce the incidence of bankruptcy whether caused by healthcare, fraudulent educational schemes and municipal debtors prisons. We need to level the income and wealth gap to rational degree rather than add wealth to the aristocracy. Whipping the poor until their morale improves isn't working.

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Over the past umpty years (since WW2), the USA has been a place where smart young people from anywhere in the world CAN BECOME doctors. In one short year, that has reversed.

There is a tide now where PhD level professionals from other coutries and other cultures are moving "back home" and in some cases having a hard time adjusting. Same reason we don't need a wall anymore, even if Mexico does pay for it: furriners are not welcome and don't want to come here. Even with record employment.

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Let's be honest. I think you are a shithole. This is a personal opinion, and nothing more.

I care about American values and traditions. I care about equal treatment under the law. I care that my wife was born in (shithole) Vietnam with her 10 brothers and sisters and that they came off food stamps despite having "no skills" and ALL went to college. They are now are doctors, engineers and pharmacists, paying back a thousandfold their indebtedness to America with cheerful, diligent effort. America in some way met national obligations incurred by that spasm of violence and enabled her to leave the day Saigon fell. I care that you and your ilk would denigrate America's proud history and difficult days and sell it for momentary political advantage.

You are disappointing. Go find some morals and some patriotism, then come back and chat. I like immigrants more than I like you and other deplorable Americans.