With the distance, I know think this movie is a terrible source for those who want to learn about Marie Antoinette. This character is quite the opposite of our queen !

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Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:19 pm

morninggray

Pimprenelle wrote:

With the distance, I know think this movie is a terrible source for those who want to learn about Marie Antoinette. This character is quite the opposite of our queen !

I did not mean that I use this movie as a source as if it is truly what has happened. It is my assignment to judge whether it is accurate, which I know it isn't. But I can't just write that down, I have to prove which sources were overlooked, which weren't looked at at all, etc.
I still believe however, that even though the movie isn't accurate, even tha smallest detail in a movie can spark an interest in history, and in that way it might work. Even as a source in itself it isn't unuseful, as it shows us how people nowadays use historical characters to give a view of their own society. That is not useful in the study of Marie Antoinette, but for future historicans, or even historicans today, it is useful.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:30 pm

Pimprenelle

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:54 amPosts: 2040

Quote:

it shows us how people nowadays use historical characters to give a view of their own society

Not "people nowadays", dear, just an Hollywoodian pampered girl...

As far as I remember, those questions you asked in your previous post must have been answered, or at least these points were discussed on this board. We already have many, many conversations about this chemical rose movie !

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Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:03 pm

morninggray

True, true, the celebraty side of life is what is shown in this movie. Though I think it might also show us a little bit of the escapism that we can now find in everyday western society, as in: 'shop till you drop', 'drinking to forget your sorrows' etc, but yes: it is all I can do conclude my article with the movie being a 'paris hilton kind of life, set in Versailles to make it look historical', or something.
Yes, most has been answered, since I've gone through the other topics on this movie.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:11 pm

Pimprenelle

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:54 amPosts: 2040

Shopping and drinking are not special for our western societies, I think. Drinking or smoking or getting on drugs to forget one's sorrows exists, alas, in many societies...

And this shopping to death is it really our western consumerism ? It could be discussed... Whatever it is, Miss Coppola showed us a Zweigian vision of Marie Antoinette, that also is Fraser's one, but that could be wrong ! In my view, it is wrong.

you know, as a film maker, Coppola is an artist, and a modern artist she is. She is not a Mme. Vigee-Lebrun. With a little thing called artists licence she is able to break away from what we all know and allow herself to create a portrayal of her subject with incorporating her own interpretation. All of us here are obviously very much compelled to learn the facts about MA and I think sometimes it can be hard for us to see outside the box in this respect. Coppola has never claimed to have been making a documentary. As an artist, I can understand this and appreciate the qualities of Coppola's film, not as an historical reference but an enjoyable piece of art. I do think the film has it's problems, the ending is difficult for me, but as a whole I thoroughly enjoyed it. A face is a face, but in the hands of picasso, it becomes something very much different. I'm sure his models were quite upset to find their own appearance so much distorted from reality.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:49 am

Délicate fleur

Royalty

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:35 amPosts: 1064Location: Australia

Re: Reviews of the movie Marie Antoinette

Much of what you say is true, and you are very much entitled to your own opinion, but I think one of the main concerns here at this forum is that it continues to ply the same distorted images of the Queen and does not actually rehabilitate her character as it claims to do. Many would not get past the first half of the film without thinking, "Wow, so she was a pampered, silly girl, wasn't she?" I think Coppola owed it to her subject to treat her with more dignity and get some of the basic facts correct.

_________________“Love is the emblem of eternity: it confounds all notion of time: effaces all memory of a beginning, all fear of an end.”- Germaine de Staël

Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:02 am

Pimprenelle

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:54 amPosts: 2040

Re: Reviews of the movie Marie Antoinette

As far as artistic licence is concerned, there could be a lot to say about miss Coppola's movie, don't you think so ? Even forgetting bout this historical accuracy that is so important for us here, was this a great movie ?

I had nothing special against Sofia Coppola, I even enjoied "Virgin Suicides" very much. Script, dialogues, play, characters... this was a venenous and quite right portrayal of our modern societies, to me.

I did not appreciate "Lost in Translation" that much, for it shows boredom and I have a problem with compliance to boredom. In my opinion, life is too short for loosing your time being bored... but that is a personal standpoint !

To make it short, I was quite happy when I heard that Sofia Coppola was shooting a movie about our queen. I thought she could give an interesting vision and a real insight, as well as her personal pictural touch.

Well... having viewed the result several times, I was more than dissapointed... Long, too long, it is another quite consensual movie about boredom among the dominant social classes... and it is so boring that I had to resist the temptation of leaving the theatre !

I really don't like this movie. I find it badly constructed (no story, no script, no dialogues) and poor (no psychological evolution of characters, monolithical plays of actors). Since it goes about art, I just express my own sensibility... but I would never call this specific movie a masterpiece nor compare Sofia Coppola to Pablo Picasso !

you bring up some interesting points Pimprenelle and Fleur! I guess I would have to give the film a 3.5 on a five point scale. So I definitely don't consider it a masterpiece and I know that coppola is no picasso. I can understand how, as a resource to those just learning of MA, this film goes as a terrible replication. I think I have it figured out, though, why I seem to feel so drawn to the picture. I am an extremely visual person (I have a photographic memory), and I think that I am most drawn to coppola's use of color and design. I know that she paid great attention to what color schemes were to be shown throughout the scenes. Maybe I am able to overlook the other things, that may not have been working as well, because of the visual feast that is being given for my eyes.

-I do have to agree with you pimprenelle, that I did not enjoy lost in translation at all. I have not seen virgin suicides but I will be sure to put it on my films to watch list in order to better compare her work.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:04 pm

Pimprenelle

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:54 amPosts: 2040

Re: Reviews of the movie Marie Antoinette

You draw our attentions to an important point, dear : the difference between picture and story. I pay more attention to the story than to pictures, even if I am also extremely sensitive to colours and atmospheres. But I must admit I need a strong script to enjoy a movie.

For instance, taking our XVIIIe century standpoints, I deeply admire "Dangerous Liaisons" or "Amadeus"... even if it is certain that this last one gives us a wrong image of Salieri !

I also pay attention to music, of course. Music is wonderfult in "Amadeus", for sure ! Music even is a true character in this movie. I did not enjoy Sofia's choice with this regard either. I am not very fond of eighties music... or at least no these ones ! I was not shocked when earing rock music in a period movie. I would have rather Bauhaus or Cure !

And, you see, I actually didn't mind the music. I think the different artists that she chose were effective. I liked that the songs she chose weren't cliche pop songs, recognisable, at least to me. Anyway, I enjoy many types of music, and although I agree that MA probabely wouldn't be interested in the music used by coppola, I think the soundtrack resonates an effective tone that supports coppola's view of MA, Versialle, etc., etc., however skewed it maybe.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:32 pm

Madame Vigée-Le Brun

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:10 pmPosts: 276

Re: Reviews of the movie Marie Antoinette

I think that Coppola put in music that she liked.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:22 pm

Délicate fleur

Royalty

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:35 amPosts: 1064Location: Australia

Re: Reviews of the movie Marie Antoinette

Pimprenelle wrote:

For instance, taking our XVIIIe century standpoints, I deeply admire "Dangerous Liaisons" or "Amadeus"... even if it is certain that this last one gives us a wrong image of Salieri !

I also pay attention to music, of course. Music is wonderfult in "Amadeus", for sure ! Music even is a true character in this movie.

Dear Pim, have you seen "Immortal Beloved" about Beethoven's love affair with his brother's wife? (!) His music was used to great effect in this film, even if, essentially, it was about his love life!

_________________“Love is the emblem of eternity: it confounds all notion of time: effaces all memory of a beginning, all fear of an end.”- Germaine de Staël

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