That's quite shocking, ses-surviver. It's also not really that long ago. Makes you wonder if similar designs on young girls are still taking place. If David Boddy was sanctioning it then, there seems no reason to believe he doesn't still sanction it. And he's the headteacher at the boys' school, in charge of young people!

I would call it exploitation, though David Boddy possibly has a 'wonderful analogy' for it.

I have no idea whether this took place in response to a request from the ladies for the men to step up and do their duty or whether it was part of some wider experiment. In the couple of years that followed a number of the men in their mid-30s married or became engaged to foundation-group ladies, but I don't recall any of the older single ladies being 'matched off'.

I am intrigued by the term ‘wider experiment’ and wonder what you mean by that? Was there something that gave you the sense of an ‘experiment’ about the situation?

Also where were the young men in the Foundation groups the same age as these young girls?

Jo-Anne: David Boddy used to be 'in charge of the ladies' which position finished quite some time ago now. Then he became Headmaster of St James senior boys (my son was there for a year or so).

I don't know much about the Foundation levels, but as far as I am aware any events these days are for the same age groups. Also as far as the present marriage situation is concerned all I know is that there is a super bunch of younger members of the SES (London), many of whom I used to be in a level with for several years, who are great fun, and there are some married couples in the group, but all of the same/similar ages.

I have no idea whether this took place in response to a request from the ladies for the men to step up and do their duty or whether it was part of some wider experiment. In the couple of years that followed a number of the men in their mid-30s married or became engaged to foundation-group ladies, but I don't recall any of the older single ladies being 'matched off'.

I am intrigued by the term ‘wider experiment’ and wonder what you mean by that?

haha, excuse my old cynicism seeping through again. I certainly didn't mean it in the sense of encouraging relationships between members so as 'to breed the new master race' .... ooops!

Was there something that gave you the sense of an ‘experiment’ about the situation?

Yes, in the sense that while there may have been a limited application of this in the past, this was the first occasion (again, in my experience) of the school being so 'up-front' about this. While those who had passed through the Youth group, 6th form at St James etc may have been brought together socially on a number of occasions and had the opportunity to be introduced to each other, there were a number of us who were a bit older, single and who hadn't really had an opportunity to meet members of the other sex outside of our stream in a social situation.

Some of us had taken on board the instruction (which came in fairly early on), about the school not being seen as a (looking for the right way to word this, but probably failing) 'social club' in the sense of a place where you would meet new partners. Of course, as commitments in the school accumulate, there is less and less time to have anything like a 'normal' social life outside and it was always weekend duties (at Stanhill or Waterperry) or 'study days' which also meant that it was difficult to meet friends and family (who lived 200 miles away) at the weekend. It certainly made me feel quite lonely and cut-off from anything outside of the school and I certainly failed to have any sort of relationship beyond causual friendship with any female during that period. Having been told on a residential to not even think about marrying before the age of 28, had also made things a little frustrating for me.

[I forget the exact phrase that Dr Shephard said to me, but it was something along the lines of men not maturing and knowing where they wanted to go in the world until that age - which granted, when I had passed that age, I could see some sense in, but at the age of 22, it had left me a bit confused.]

So, yeah, when I was familiar with the instruction to discuss with your tutor any major decisions in your life (change of home, job etc), I hadn't really expected to have also approached them for marriage guidance - but perhaps that was just niaveity on my part. While I could see from point of view of commitments etc in the school, it would appear easiest to share one's life with another member of the school as they might at least have some understanding of your commitments and you of theirs - I was uncomfortable with the idea of being introduced (or 'matched off') with someone much younger.

So, getting back to the point of me seeing this as an 'experiment', there were certainly a number of members in the school of both sexes who probably had a desire at some stage of their life, to get married, but were probably, like me, wondering how it would ever happen given the level of commitments that we had and how 'institutionalised' we had become. It had become impossible to think of getting married to someone outside the school - and yet we weren't supposed to look on other single members (or married) in that light - not that it stopped people, but one hadn't felt comfortable about considering it. So, there was a 'need' and it was probably more likely to have been voiced by the ladies (knowing how reserved us gents were) and to Mr Boddy's credit he put it out there. It was certainly new for the school to be that 'up-front' about things and so in the sense that it was a new, more open way of doing things in the SES, it was an 'experiment'.

There have certainly been many 'experiments' or changes over the years.

The difficulty is getting to understand the core or fundamental beliefs around which change can and does occur, but beyond which the SES has so far proved incapable of moving. For instance to bring about real gender equality of status, so that women are not limited in any way, including leadership.

trubleshtr wrote:There have certainly been many 'experiments' or changes over the years.

The difficulty is getting to understand the core or fundamental beliefs around which change can and does occur, but beyond which the SES has so far proved incapable of moving. For instance to bring about real gender equality of status, so that women are not limited in any way, including leadership.

The future of the organisation depends on how this challenge is met.

Tricky one - that certainly seems a fairly fundamental beleif in the school and one which I took to be under-pinned by the teaching received from India. Can we expect to read a radical re-translation/re-interpretation of The laws of Manu - let's wait and see.

ses-surviver wrote:I have no idea whether this took place in response to a request from the ladies for the men to step up and do their duty or whether it was part of some wider experiment. In the couple of years that followed a number of the men in their mid-30s married or became engaged to foundation-group ladies, but I don't recall any of the older single ladies being 'matched off'.

While it might appeal to many men to have a lovely teenage wife, I was always uneasy about what I saw as large age differences, with a difference of 12-15 years between the man and the girl not being unusual. Sometimes the girl had not even started, let alone finished university before she was 'married off'.

I know of one specific incident 1993 (it may have been 94) where the foundation group girls were required to throw a ball at waterperry with the intention of matching them off with Prep group men. I understand that this idea to throw this ball was Mr Lambie's in response to discussions with the prep group men. I find it particularly strange that the girls were compelled to host such an event, though it was not at their instigation. There also seemed few options on the girls to refuse to participate should they have wished not to be involved.

I am not aware of any attempts to repeat this and have not heard of any other such events.

This precipitated my own decision to leave the foundation group I was in.

I was once invited to attend a similar event at Sarum Chase in the late 1980s, by some of the St James 6th form girls (who later went on to join one of the early foundation groups), however my sister had to return urgently from Italy and I was called away to collect her from Luton airport - so I was unable to attend.

trubleshtr wrote:Just a question - how many people still read the posts on this Forum? If I were to discuss reforms of the SES at the current time how many would be interested? If no replies I have to find another way to deal with reform of the SES.Thanks, from a current member of the SES.

Hello from Texas: I try to read this forum everyday. I find it extremely beneficial. I joined in 2010 long after the founding of the forum and I still have a lot of catching up to do. I sense there are a lot of current SES/SOP/SKSK members who log in and who want to have their say or just want to spy. Perhaps they read about some troubling behaviors they recognize. It tells me that this forum is having a very positive effect on getting the word out to the world that these sham schools are psychologically, emotionally and spiritually dangerous. If we survivors are just wacked-out nay-sayers, then why bother with us or the forum? Just ignore us. But you must know we speak the truth of our experiences, whether you like it or not. Blessings and good will to all true hearted people.