'Must have been a quick 'un Tony, that front disc didn't get much use'.

Photo was taken after a winter rebuild. I'll post some photos of the bike after the previous seasons' last meeting when it hit the armco at the Snetterton 'bomb hole' and took some of my vertibrae with it.

Although the forks, including one slider, were bent, the frame downtubes fractured, the radiator lozenge shaped the front wheel was perfectly round and unharmed apart from the impression of a bolt in the tyre.

My own fault, as usual, trying to take the bomb hole at dry speeds in the wet with a PZ2 tyre instead of the usual PZ4 compound.

1974 Powerbike International meeting, Geoff Went TZ350, Geoff led the Bill Ivy televised race for a number of laps before some big slides dropped him back to finish 3rd, Steve Manship won with Kork Ballington 2nd. Love the old vans, how differant now days!!

Oh yes. That year I was racing both the 250 and the 500 Crescent. The Crescent had to go to finance the rebuild of the 250. Went on to race a 350 Yamaha until 1982. Did some racing in the 90s on a 250 TZ J and then a 350 G.

Think that year must have been 1978 as this crash was a year and 4 days after I crashed the Crescent whilst practicing for the 1977 MGP at Windy Corner and crushed some vertibrae then as well.

They say 'practice makes perfect'. Perhaps I was the 'exception that proves the rule'.

1974 Powerbike International meeting, Geoff Went TZ350, Geoff led the Bill Ivy televised race for a number of laps before some big slides dropped him back to finish 3rd, Steve Manship won with Kork Ballington 2nd. Love the old vans, how differant now days!!

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

A couple of years later Geoff Went raced a 250 Greeves in club events. At the Bemsee club races at Brands which were run in the reverse direction on the long circuit like the Hutchinson 100 the following day, he won both the 250cc single cylinder races by the proverbial mile. The headline in MCN on the Wednesday afterwards was one I've never forgotten....."Where Geoff Went Others Followed."

A couple of years later Geoff Went raced a 250 Greeves in club events. At the Bemsee club races at Brands which were run in the reverse direction on the long circuit like the Hutchinson 100 the following day, he won both the 250cc single cylinder races by the proverbial mile. The headline in MCN on the Wednesday afterwards was one I've never forgotten....."Where Geoff Went Others Followed."

Didn't Geoff have the Orpin Greeves Silverstone?

Reg Orpin developed a watercooled version of the Silverstone which at one time was ridden by Peter Williams. In 71/72 I had the Chat Greeves Silverstone I purchased from Martin Harrison and I seem to remember Geoff on the Orpin Greeves at the same time.

I shall check some old programs seeing as I am at a loose end at present whilst my lungs clear of the multiple emboli they are clogged up with.

Reg Orpin developed a watercooled version of the Silverstone which at one time was ridden by Peter Williams. In 71/72 I had the Chat Greeves Silverstone I purchased from Martin Harrison and I seem to remember Geoff on the Orpin Greeves at the same time.

I shall check some old programs seeing as I am at a loose end at present whilst my lungs clear of the multiple emboli they are clogged up with.

A guy called Ray (Ray Guy) had some success on an Orpin Greeves back in the late 60s. I always assumed it was the ex Peter Williams machine. I do know it was bloody fast.

Re Colin Bevan's frame - I'll ask Pantall the next time I see him in Asdas!
For what it's worth, I don't think its a Maxton - my money's on the converted A/B theory! A similar question was asked on this board some time ago about the plated frame on Pantall's TZ750 - IIRC, Gordon said that was just a plated standard frame.

I believe that Geoff was racing the ex-Ray Guy bike in 1976 which was aircooled, I think the watercooled bike was an Oulton.

I am 99.99% certain ( ) that the watercooled Orpin Greeves was a 250. Trevor Elliott had a 350 Oulton which was aircooled. A mate of mine, Jim Chalkley, bought it from him when he purchased a 350 TZ. Trevor did try a watercooled version which he described as 'only good for making tea' as it boiled all the while.

Re Colin Bevan's frame - I'll ask Pantall the next time I see him in Asdas!For what it's worth, I don't think its a Maxton - my money's on the converted A/B theory! A similar question was asked on this board some time ago about the plated frame on Pantall's TZ750 - IIRC, Gordon said that was just a plated standard frame.

Ah yes Barry, good to remind ourselves again as I have lost many brain cells since we last talked about this and cant remember what the verdict was!!

I am 99.99% certain ( ) that the watercooled Orpin Greeves was a 250. Trevor Elliott had a 350 Oulton which was aircooled. A mate of mine, Jim Chalkley, bought it from him when he purchased a 350 TZ. Trevor did try a watercooled version which he described as 'only good for making tea' as it boiled all the while.

Tony

You are correct. Apparently in 1976 my brother tried to get the special cylinder etc. for his Silverstone but the shop wouldn't part with it.

I remember Trevor Elliott riding a watercooled Orpin Greeves Oulton and always assumed it was the only one.

I bought my Silverstone from Atlantic Motorcycles in late 1981 and had it shipped out here to Canada. It had a highly modified rear sub frame and was fitted with an Oldani front brake. The frame number is 24RDSSTE1 and the crankcases are stamped GPA5STE1, neither number standard for an RDS. While trying to find the history of the bike I came across the write up in David Dixon’s Racing Line column in the 21 April, 1966 edition of Motor Cycle that describes the water cooled Silverstone described as being built by Reg Orpin. The photographs of this bike show the same frame mods and even the same non-standard seat as the bike I bought, although it was fitted with a Velocette front brake at that time. By the time I bought the bike it had an air cooled cylinder fitted and no radiator although all the lugs for this were still fitted to the frame as shown in the Motor Cycle column.
I have been racing this bike in Canada and the US since 1982 and through a photo taken of my bike and posted on a website the previous owner contacted me and we met a couple of years ago on a trip back to the UK. He owned the bike for a few years prior to selling it in 1981 but didn’t recollect who he bought it from, although he did say he bought it as an ex Peter Williams bike and as a Peter memorabilia collector that was the main attraction for him. He intended to race the bike in the singles class but never did.
Peter has written that he built the frame for the water cooled bike (he worked for Greeves for a while) and when I showed him photos of my bike when I met him at Pukekohe in 2007 he said it did look like his frame but didn’t remember too much after all this time.
At the Pukekohe race there was another Silverstone racing and when I talked to the rider and mentioned that I raced a Silverstone and thought it might be the ex Orpin bike he told me that was impossible as a mate of his in the south island had bought that bike when it was retired (late 60’s?). So who knows if more than one was built, the original resides in NZ or whether mine is the Peter Williams bike? As I have no documented history of the bike and continue racing it here I am not trying to prove provenance one way or the other but it would be interesting to try and trace back who sold the bike to David Bird sometime in the mid-70’s.
Stan

I bought my Silverstone from Atlantic Motorcycles in late 1981 and had it shipped out here to Canada. It had a highly modified rear sub frame and was fitted with an Oldani front brake. The frame number is 24RDSSTE1 and the crankcases are stamped GPA5STE1, neither number standard for an RDS. While trying to find the history of the bike I came across the write up in David Dixon’s Racing Line column in the 21 April, 1966 edition of Motor Cycle that describes the water cooled Silverstone described as being built by Reg Orpin. The photographs of this bike show the same frame mods and even the same non-standard seat as the bike I bought, although it was fitted with a Velocette front brake at that time. By the time I bought the bike it had an air cooled cylinder fitted and no radiator although all the lugs for this were still fitted to the frame as shown in the Motor Cycle column.I have been racing this bike in Canada and the US since 1982 and through a photo taken of my bike and posted on a website the previous owner contacted me and we met a couple of years ago on a trip back to the UK. He owned the bike for a few years prior to selling it in 1981 but didn’t recollect who he bought it from, although he did say he bought it as an ex Peter Williams bike and as a Peter memorabilia collector that was the main attraction for him. He intended to race the bike in the singles class but never did.Peter has written that he built the frame for the water cooled bike (he worked for Greeves for a while) and when I showed him photos of my bike when I met him at Pukekohe in 2007 he said it did look like his frame but didn’t remember too much after all this time.At the Pukekohe race there was another Silverstone racing and when I talked to the rider and mentioned that I raced a Silverstone and thought it might be the ex Orpin bike he told me that was impossible as a mate of his in the south island had bought that bike when it was retired (late 60’s?). So who knows if more than one was built, the original resides in NZ or whether mine is the Peter Williams bike? As I have no documented history of the bike and continue racing it here I am not trying to prove provenance one way or the other but it would be interesting to try and trace back who sold the bike to David Bird sometime in the mid-70’s.Stan

Certainly he 24RDS marks it as a 1966 machine which were blue as standard colour. It is along while ago but I seem to remember that the Orpin Greeves had telescopic forks rather than the leading link items.

Once again I will look through my old race programs from 1967/1968 to see if I can unearth any photos of PW on the bike.

At the Pukekohe race there was another Silverstone racing and when I talked to the rider and mentioned that I raced a Silverstone and thought it might be the ex Orpin bike he told me that was impossible as a mate of his in the south island had bought that bike when it was retired (late 60’s?). So who knows if more than one was built, the original resides in NZ or whether mine is the Peter Williams bike? Stan

Hi Stan, Keith Williams brought a Reg Orpin RDS back to NZ from England at the end of the 1968 season, it was pretty quick and embarrassed a few in the wet a couple of times that I saw, but was put away when Keith got a Yamaha going and I know not whence it ended up. I'll make a couple of enquiries as I have a mate in NZ that knows Keith : if anything transpires, I'll be back...

I received at little more information on the water cooled RDS this weekend from an ex Greeves employee. He said, that as far as he could recollect, there was only one of the water cooled bikes built and that he knew Peter when he worked at Greeves, although working in a different dept. to Peter (it was a pretty small company, after all).

After PW mentioned in his book that the w/c bike was badly damaged at Snetterton later in the 66 season I was asking what happened to it after that or was it beyond repair. I was told that the bike was rebuilt but with a standard motor.

In his book, Peter describes another Silverstone engined bike he built late in 66. This had a small diameter duplex tube frame that he designed and was made by Jim Lee. The photograph of this bike in Peter’s book shows it was fitted with telescopic forks, Oldani brakes and appears to have a special, central exhaust port, air cooled cylinder. Peter states that he did not race this bike but only rode it in a practice. It was described as an “Orpin Special”. Peter said that, at the time of writing his book, he was glad to hear this bike was still being ridden in classic events. Is this bike still in the UK or was that the one that went to NZ?

Obviously, over the years that Reg Orpin was involved with the Silverstone programme there had to have been many bikes that he worked on, not to mention the other tuner developing these bikes “up north”, Brian Woolley. I wonder how many of these bikes are still in existence?

I received at little more information on the water cooled RDS this weekend from an ex Greeves employee. He said, that as far as he could recollect, there was only one of the water cooled bikes built and that he knew Peter when he worked at Greeves, although working in a different dept. to Peter (it was a pretty small company, after all).

After PW mentioned in his book that the w/c bike was badly damaged at Snetterton later in the 66 season I was asking what happened to it after that or was it beyond repair. I was told that the bike was rebuilt but with a standard motor.

In his book, Peter describes another Silverstone engined bike he built late in 66. This had a small diameter duplex tube frame that he designed and was made by Jim Lee. The photograph of this bike in Peter’s book shows it was fitted with telescopic forks, Oldani brakes and appears to have a special, central exhaust port, air cooled cylinder. Peter states that he did not race this bike but only rode it in a practice. It was described as an “Orpin Special”. Peter said that, at the time of writing his book, he was glad to hear this bike was still being ridden in classic events. Is this bike still in the UK or was that the one that went to NZ?

Obviously, over the years that Reg Orpin was involved with the Silverstone programme there had to have been many bikes that he worked on, not to mention the other tuner developing these bikes “up north”, Brian Woolley. I wonder how many of these bikes are still in existence?

Stan

The Jim Lee Greeves is featured in last edition of Classic Racer and had an aircooled engine.

Despite PWs recollections the water cooled Orpin Greeves was being raced by Peter in early 1967 I have programs from Mallory Park showing Peter entered on the Orpin Greeves in 1967.

The watercooled Greeves raced by Chris Guy was red which was the RES colours of 1967.

I will go through my old programs of the era I raced the Chat Greeves and look for Chris Guy this time. Ths was circa 1971 to 1972, so I am certain it was around then.

Thanks Tony,
I have checked back through my Classic Racers, was it the feature on Jim Lee in the July/August issue that you are referring to? The picture of Jim with a Lee framed Greeves is not the same as the PW designed frame that Jim built for Peter/Reg Orpin shown in Peter’s book. The story mentions that Jim built a frame to house a Greeves motor for a Joe Chapman. I suspect that may be the one pictured in Classic Racer. Although there is no date reference for the photo, given the earlier gearbox shown, I think this may have been in 1965.
The bike illustrated in PW’s book has much smaller diameter tubing, the front down tubes end at the front motor mounts and the engine is a structural member, like the standard Silverstone frame. It also has a double sided Oldani brake and, although Peter mentions it had Ceriani forks, the photo shows leading axle forks that look like they may be Bultaco. PW writes that he took this “Orpin Special” to Italy the following year (1967?) but didn’t race it but that Tony(?) raced it in the MGP. If that was the Tony he mentions earlier as the person who helped out with the modifications to adapt the Greeves frame for the w/c motor, that could have been Tony O’Neill who worked in the Greeves drawing office, but I cannot find any reference to him in the 67 MGP records that I can find on the internet.
Of the few programmes I have for this period I can find PW entered on an Orpin Greeves at the International race at Snetterton on April 10, 1966 and the International at Brands on Oct 9, 1966. His race win at Brands on the w/c bike on May 1, 1966 is documented in a couple of books. I have also found an entry for him at the International at Brands on May 29, 1967 on an Orpin Greeves so, as you say, he may have raced the tube framed bike then or it may have been another Orpin machine as he was riding Orpin bikes from 1965.
Regards,
Stan

Hmmmm... Dresda chassis, dodgy Hondastyle clothing... not sure whether this a Mocheck job or early Honda GB.
Had an inkling trhe Mocheck bikes had a similar paint job but in silver.
Looks like Krober rev counters, too...

Thanks Tony,I have checked back through my Classic Racers, was it the feature on Jim Lee in the July/August issue that you are referring to? The picture of Jim with a Lee framed Greeves is not the same as the PW designed frame that Jim built for Peter/Reg Orpin shown in Peter’s book. The story mentions that Jim built a frame to house a Greeves motor for a Joe Chapman. I suspect that may be the one pictured in Classic Racer. Although there is no date reference for the photo, given the earlier gearbox shown, I think this may have been in 1965.The bike illustrated in PW’s book has much smaller diameter tubing, the front down tubes end at the front motor mounts and the engine is a structural member, like the standard Silverstone frame. It also has a double sided Oldani brake and, although Peter mentions it had Ceriani forks, the photo shows leading axle forks that look like they may be Bultaco. PW writes that he took this “Orpin Special” to Italy the following year (1967?) but didn’t race it but that Tony(?) raced it in the MGP. If that was the Tony he mentions earlier as the person who helped out with the modifications to adapt the Greeves frame for the w/c motor, that could have been Tony O’Neill who worked in the Greeves drawing office, but I cannot find any reference to him in the 67 MGP records that I can find on the internet.Of the few programmes I have for this period I can find PW entered on an Orpin Greeves at the International race at Snetterton on April 10, 1966 and the International at Brands on Oct 9, 1966. His race win at Brands on the w/c bike on May 1, 1966 is documented in a couple of books. I have also found an entry for him at the International at Brands on May 29, 1967 on an Orpin Greeves so, as you say, he may have raced the tube framed bike then or it may have been another Orpin machine as he was riding Orpin bikes from 1965.Regards,Stan

I have found that one of the August 1966 copies of Motor Cycle (I think it is August 25th) has a racer test of the Orpin Greeves. I have ordered all the four August 1966 magazines. Once I have these provided I am correct I shall copy the racer test. They were usually performed by Charlie Rous or another rider of the time. and had perfomance data and photos.

Reg Orpin Motorcycles still exists in Goldhark Road in London but I doubt if Reg is still alive. I will phone today to find out. I beleive Reg actually worked at L Stevens (the Velo Fellows) at the time.

. Once I have these provided I am correct I shall copy the racer test. They were usually performed by Charlie Rous or another rider of the time. and had perfomance data and photos.

Usually David Dixon in that era, Bruce Main-Smith before him. You won't find Charlie Rous in leathers much in those times, apart from sprinting a 650 Triumph with Fred Cooper.Tests of Brian Wooley's Greeves usually had Trevor Burgess along for a ride as well.

Thanks Tony,I have checked back through my Classic Racers, was it the feature on Jim Lee in the July/August issue that you are referring to? The picture of Jim with a Lee framed Greeves is not the same as the PW designed frame that Jim built for Peter/Reg Orpin shown in Peter’s book. The story mentions that Jim built a frame to house a Greeves motor for a Joe Chapman. I suspect that may be the one pictured in Classic Racer. Although there is no date reference for the photo, given the earlier gearbox shown, I think this may have been in 1965.The bike illustrated in PW’s book has much smaller diameter tubing, the front down tubes end at the front motor mounts and the engine is a structural member, like the standard Silverstone frame. It also has a double sided Oldani brake and, although Peter mentions it had Ceriani forks, the photo shows leading axle forks that look like they may be Bultaco. PW writes that he took this “Orpin Special” to Italy the following year (1967?) but didn’t race it but that Tony(?) raced it in the MGP. If that was the Tony he mentions earlier as the person who helped out with the modifications to adapt the Greeves frame for the w/c motor, that could have been Tony O’Neill who worked in the Greeves drawing office, but I cannot find any reference to him in the 67 MGP records that I can find on the internet.Of the few programmes I have for this period I can find PW entered on an Orpin Greeves at the International race at Snetterton on April 10, 1966 and the International at Brands on Oct 9, 1966. His race win at Brands on the w/c bike on May 1, 1966 is documented in a couple of books. I have also found an entry for him at the International at Brands on May 29, 1967 on an Orpin Greeves so, as you say, he may have raced the tube framed bike then or it may have been another Orpin machine as he was riding Orpin bikes from 1965.Regards,Stan

'Tony' is almost certainly Tony Wood who did indeed race a Greeves and AMC singles under the Tom Arter banner at the relevant time.

Usually David Dixon in that era, Bruce Main-Smith before him. You won't find Charlie Rous in leathers much in those times, apart from sprinting a 650 Triumph with Fred Cooper.Tests of Brian Wooley's Greeves usually had Trevor Burgess along for a ride as well.

Why did I say Charlie Rous when I meant David Dixon, he of the white 'battle bowler' must be age or................I've forgotten.

I have found that one of the August 1966 copies of Motor Cycle (I think it is August 25th) has a racer test of the Orpin Greeves. I have ordered all the four August 1966 magazines. Once I have these provided I am correct I shall copy the racer test. They were usually performed by Charlie Rous or another rider of the time. and had perfomance data and photos.

Reg Orpin Motorcycles still exists in Goldhark Road in London but I doubt if Reg is still alive. I will phone today to find out. I beleive Reg actually worked at L Stevens (the Velo Fellows) at the time.

Regards

Magazine turned up today. The issue with the Orpin Greeves test was 18th August1966. However some interesting facts also from that issue and the 25th August issue.

You will see from the test copied below that this is the Jim Lee framed Silverstone and the test mentions the other Orpin Greeves which was glycol cooled, which is the Orpin Greeves I referred to originally.I have copied also the photo from the recent classic racer (copywrite Mortons media) of the Jim Lee framed Silverstone which the text says was built for Joe Chapman but qualifies this with the statement that Reg Orpin also commissioned frames fro Velocettes for L Stevens, where at that point Reg worked (Managed). I contacted Reg Orpin Motorcycles in Goldhawk Rd London yesterday and spoke to Reg's daughter. Reg died in 1992 and his daughter was unable to help with further information.The August 24th issue of Motor Cycle also has two other snippets pertinent to this. The Lightweight 250 cc Race TT entry shows number 45 P J Williams entered on a Greeves and the second snippet from this issue, Racing Lines has a letter from the Manx club to Reg Orpin concerning the entry of ‘works’ bikes in the MGP and the clarification that although they will not be entering machines through his name or L G Stevens they will be manning a service depot in the Island.

My Dad was involved in a project could well have been this. He recalls making a watercooling jacket with JL getting the job of removing the fins. Dad wanted to add a manual switch operated battery driven water pump to use only when reqired ie the Mountain climb but as so often his idea was shelved.

never seen that piccy before but the ES machine was a bit of a rarity that year, looking at this i imagine knee down MCN chaps wouldnt be impressed that the leathers arent colour co-ordinated with the bike