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Killboard Stats

Today's regularly scheduled post about fighting Solo in a team environment has been pre-empted by this lovely Tweet I received this morning from newly elected CSM Member FunkyBacon.

@rixxjavix @RossMP9999 Quite true actually. I've lost count how many times you post up kill stats extolling the virtues of SF, which is fine, good for you. When someone posts competing stats or talks about how theirs might be a little better, you like to toss up excuses, such as "The reason our KPP is lower is because we have those guys in highsec" (to name one when you were compared to GMVA), or how killboards don't matter, followed by a negative comment about people who are all about their killboards. Then within a day or two more kill stats are being tweeted, and then most recently asking the zKill devs about more tools to compare yourself to others on kill stats. What bothers me here is not that you flaunt kill stats, and not that you don't like people who flaunt kill stats, but that you do BOTH. Look man, you either care about kill stats, or you don't. You either think negatively about people who care about kill stats, or don't. Caring about kill stats when it benefits your corp/alliance, and then pretending not to when it doesn't followed by negativity about people who love killboards makes you look hypocritical. GMVA has a higher KPP than we do as well in that example above, but instead of making excuses and commenting about people who love their killboards (because I'm a person who generally likes our KB) I let him have that one, fair play. And now Ross, maybe you understand a bit better why I come down on Rixx just about every time I see him talk about his kill stats. A: He plays both sides. B: He gets REALLY spun up about it in a hurry, and the reactions are great. C: It's the right thing to do.

Some people see things in black and white. A thing is either one thing or another. Perhaps it is a testament to how many Eve players are analytical by nature, or tend to hail from engineering and technical fields. Whatever it is, I am not like that. And perhaps it is because I hail from a creative background, my experience demands that I see things from all angles, that I understand the motivations and drivers behind decisions that people make. That is, after all, the entire point of advertising and marketing.

Funky is having issues understanding my feelings in regards to killboards in Eve. Something I have written about extensively here on this blog, over and over again. Since those posts don't seem to have worked, I thought I would try something new and approach this from a different angle. Let's work together to educate Mr. Funky. Since he will be representing us all on the CSM, he really should start listening to what people are actually saying. And not hearing what he wants to hear.

NUMBER ONE
I didn't invent KBs, they were around before I started playing Eve and I suspect they will be here long after I stop playing. I have zero control over them, they collect data with or without me. I don't own stock in any of them, nor do I have any say over how they operate. So I wash my hands over any and all responsibility for the existence of killboards.

NUMBER TWO
I am a PvPer in Eve. Call it piracy or whatever, every day I do one thing in New Eden - I undock to fight other players with my ship. That's it. I don't mine, or rat, or run missions, or anything else other than engage in combat. I win some, I lose some. Killboards collect that data and display it for everyone to look at. They do this with and without my consent. Again, they've been doing that long before I came along.

NUMBER THREE
I do not personally care about killboard statistics and I do not allow them to dictate how I play the game. At various times during my long Eve career I have allowed myself to care and I did not like how that affected my game-play. I learned and grew up, and changed my opinion. I have found this to be a much better and more relaxing attitude, and one that I highly recommend to anyone. It is hard for many people to believe this about me, and I respect your right to your own opinion. Your opinion doesn't change the truth however. I have learned enough about Eve over the years that I could easily play in such a way to increase my personal stats, increase my own rankings, and manipulate my own numbers. My not doing so is proof that my statement regarding my personal feelings are true.

NUMBER FOUR
I also happen to be the CEO of one of Eve's greatest Pirate Corporations. As such I serve as their greatest cheerleader and #1 fan. I am proud of our pilots and go out of my way to extol their virtues. I post about them, link their kills, and defend them both in space and in real life. I will always do so, even when it means taking heat, or losing a ship I shouldn't have lost. This is my job. The responsibility I assumed when asking people to join our merry little band. I take that responsibility seriously and will continue to do so. This is where some people lose the connection. How can I personally not care about KBs and yet extol those very same things about my Corp? Well that's easy - THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!

NUMBER FIVE
On top of all of that, I also happen to be an Eve Blogger. I know this is getting complicated, so please try to follow along. I also write about Eve almost every single day, nearly 1,300 posts in the last five years. That is a lot of content about a lot of different things. I stir pots, hold events, make noise, fuel fires, argue points, demand answers, poke fun, and generally cause some havoc. It is in the blog description and in the name.

So, let's recap shall we? I am indeed negative about people who care about their killboard stats. I think that is boneheaded and leads to risk-averse play. I am four-square against risk-averse play in Eve. I'm sorry, but I've made that position very clear over the past 1,300 posts and I'm not going to stop now.

On the other hand, I appreciate that many people take pride in their killboard stats. I am ALSO ok with that. I also happen to take some measure of pride in my own measily 3,787 kills. I don't let it dictate my play-style, but it does speak to the hard work and success I've managed to have over my Eve career. So sue me if you are unable to understand how two things can be true at the same time.

That duality is not hypocrisy, it is simply the way I am. A complicated, free-thinking, educated, and experienced human being who tends to rail against injustice, labels, and ignorance.

Comments

People lose the plot when you say you don't "care" about stats. I think it's because they give the word more weight than it deserves in the context used. It's completely clear to me that not caring (read: not obsessing) about stats while still being able to appreciate accomplishments related to one's playstyle are two different things. If FunkyBacon views this as hypocritical, he's welcome to that interpretation but I think he's just looking for a hook to stir you up.

That's really insightful. While I was reading, I couldn't understand how you can care about fights, i.e. whether you kill a ship or not, and not care about killboards, i.e. a record of whether you kill a ship or not--personal or otherwise. It seemed paradoxical. Reading "care" as the stronger "obsessed" solves these problems, although in fairness to Funky it (1) isn't the most natural reading and (2) doesn't come across in the context of short tweets.

Stats are stats. They are designed to represent the trends of actual events, and often fail in that design. Killmails are a side effect of PVP, not the aim. I would rather have twenty billion ISK in losses added to my stats than let some guy's Tengu get away.

Whoring onto kills to make your killboard look better is pretty dumb. People who jump through the gate or aggress instead of waiting properly to catch the target, letting them occasionally escape, are idiots. Showing up for some kill that doesn't require your presence to happen just to get on the killmail, when you could also spend that time going out and getting someone totally different killed, is a waste. Sure it can be fun to see how well you're doing sometimes, but even then if you avoid posting any of your kills just to make your killboard look worse, people underestimate you--it's a good idea.

So, yes. There's really no ambiguity there and no real need to qualify the statement. You shouldn't care about stats. You should care about what the stats mean, whether or not those stats reflect it accurately.

You don't have to care about the kill boards to find them interesting. Kills and losses end up as little snap shots of stories, the stories are often lost and at the end of the day we have a photo album called a kill board. You can flip threw the album and like what your corp does without having to care about stats.

You are well known for this Helicity lol. Like I've said a gazillion times, I respect every players right to approach the game any way they wish. That is one of the many things that make Eve special, that we have room within the confines of it to do so. So many flavors make for a more satisfying meal.

I think they're a way to keep "fish stories" from taking over -- no, f'reals, he had 200,000 PLEXes in his hold! -- and for that purpose, they do what they're supposed to do. API verified Killboards are our answer to "Pics or it didn't happen."

They do fall short in other ways, though, and it seems to me like there are extra bits of data that can be collected (or made available through CREST) that'd give more dimension to battle reports.

This is an interesting topic. I would tend to agree with Funky that you can either care about KB stats or not care about kill board stats. The two are mutually exclusive.

However, I think Rixx's opinion is very similar to QCATS. In our case, we care very much about our killboard stats because it is the measure of how well we are doing. That being said, we let our play style (Faction Warfare privateers) drive our killboard and not the other way around. The only risk-averse rule we have is "Don't undock a ship unless you can afford to lose it".

The real question, in my opinion, is "How do your killboard stats effect you?". This question is more open ended and can put people into more than two buckets. I would say people fall into the following categories:

-What is a KB? Does that impact my fun per minute?-I know I have a killboard, but frankly my dear I don't give a damn.-Killboard, smill-board. Look at the Sov map!-I know I have a killboard and I try to maximize a particular killboard metric (raw kill count, K/D ratio, isk killed, isk killed/lost ratio, zKillboard points, Battleclinic points, solo kills, etc, etc, etc).

The last point is key. Based on Rixx's comments, I think he falls into the "I care about KB stats and specifically I care about solo kills and isk killed/destroyed ratio.

Waaa, why can't I be CSM. Waaa, I hate the CSM. Waaa, even though Funky has been ragging on at me about my posting of killboard statistics, I'll just drag the fact he is CSM into the mix to make it a bigger deal. Waa.

Well at least I know who this troll is now. Your true colors are showing by the way. I'm sincerely sorry I supported you and urged my pilots to vote for you. That won't happen again. Your penis envy is showing and that is just a very sad little member you have there.

lol so its an excuse in kpp? im pretty sure he stated that half our corp is inactive and that hurts us in kpp(at least he did in the forums when frosty saw this a week or so ago). its not guys in high sec its that we are a causal corp and all of us don't log in every week or month for that matter. We have a high sec corp in our alliance. Its more of a statement of fact then it is an excuse......all that said who cares about KPP? I know how many kills I had last month lol

He has been attacking us for months and I simply respond, as I would to anyone attacking us. Out of game or in-game. Apparently he didn't like that. I'm not sure why, but he is rather thin-skinned and doesn't take to trolls very well.

Seriously? You both like killing other pilots and by enjoying it, you do what gaming is made for. Having fun. But instead of having fun you argue about metrics recorded somewhere and interpreted by anyone differently what the message is those metrics deliver. Got lost in that sentence? Me too. Stop arguing about solo kill stats and kill/death ration.

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