For the Guys Only ***

Good Afternoon Gentlemen ~

I got invited to play a round of Mixed Doubles this afternoon at an Indoor Facility. Although I'm not a huge fan of Doubles, I know these people to be very good Tennis Players and decided I might actually have fun, so I joined them.

So here's my dilemma, John T. is a 54 yr old 5.0 Player, that I've known for about 7 years now. He's very solid at the Net and prefers doubles or nothing. Leslie T. is John's wife, who is also 5.0 rated Player and I never actually asked how old she was but I'd guess she's somewhere close to her Husband's age. Leslie has a wicked Chip & Charge shot that I think over uses it but against the other women, she's had great success.

My Partner, JoAnn P. is around 50 yrs old, with a 4.5 NTRP Rating. I believe she needs to get rated again because she's much better than I remember the last time I watched her play. Her Court instincts are excellent and seems to know the right shot for every situation she finds herself in.

When it was my turn to serve, I would serve the normal way I serve against a guy. But when I served against Leslie, I found myself pulling up and basically spinning it in to start the point off. I feel there's no way she can return my serves if I give her what I throw at John. But John showed no such consideration when serving to my partner.

I found myself getting ticked off about it but I continued to pull up when serving to his partner. So my question is, how about you guys, when playing against ladies, do you bomb your serves at them or do you do what I do and think that you'd rather try winning off the ground rather than the cheap point you can get from your unreturnable serves?

The only acceptable loss is when your opponent was better than you on that given day.
It is never acceptable to lose when your opponent was not.

Gender Gap

Of course I had to peek at the post entitled "For Guys Only"! Good question, Coach and I look forward to the guys' responses.

May I chip in here? This is exactly why I don't prefer mixed doubles. There's usually too much of a disparity between ability levels of the men and women when it comes to serving and baseline duke-outs. So, it becomes a particular style of play, constantly compensating for this disparity. In some leagues the playing field is evened by having the men serve only to each other. This may seem patronizing, but better perhaps than having to face a testosterone-laced first serve, which can frankly be intimidating if not downright scary. My solution would be to test out the female players' ability to handle a first serve from the men during the warmup. If no warmup is played it would be more gentlemanly to either allow the women to serve to each other exclusively or, if that's not possible, tone down the first serves to give the ladies a chance to return. Next best alternative would be to test the ladies on one or two points to determine how much heat they can handle and adjust accordingly. A guy who has to win the match by inflicting serves out of the range of the female opponent's capabilities is being unsportsMANlike if not downright bullyish, in my opinion, and yields a rather vacuous win. PS - the guy's female partner could rise above his unduly aggressive behavior and tell him to cool it, unless of course she is more interested in taking the win than being sportsWOMANlike herself.

Well I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been any replies from the guys yet but I greatly appreciate your post so much that I had to respond. Unfortunately, I've never encountered the variation of the Rules where the guys only serve to the guys. So are you basically saying when it's my turn at Bat, the Male Opponent would receive on both the Deuce & Ad-Court? However when my female partner is serving, she gets to serve to both genders? Hmmm, that sounds easy enough and doable.

Actually, I've seen guys serve to ladies in this manner several times and I've concluded the same as you >

Originally Posted by TennisLucy

This may seem patronizing, but better perhaps than having to face a testosterone-laced first serve, which can frankly be intimidating if not downright scary. A guy who has to win the match by inflicting serves out of the range of the female opponent's capabilities is being unsportsMANlike if not downright bullish, in my opinion

One of the reasons I've always enjoyed playing women is because the points are longer. I thoroughly enjoy a good baseline rally and I find myself involved in them much more while playing against a women. Now on the other hand, I've played against ladies who are extremely powerful off the ground. I even played against young girls who can bang the ball as they say.

In other words, a message was sent to me loud & clear during a Hit or Match that I could T-off on the ball as I normally would against anyone. So I've concluded that women really don't mind hitting hard when they are experienced players. Handling big serves can also be handled by some but you have to decide what type of game it is you are wanting to play.

If winning is all that matters, then I'd say serve as you would against anyone.
If honing your strategy skills, playing against a woman might be your best option particularly if she is strong off the ground. Given Tennis strategy is what I talk to my kids about, this is the type of game I enjoy the most. Without question, I love setting up the point before I go for the winner.

The only acceptable loss is when your opponent was better than you on that given day.
It is never acceptable to lose when your opponent was not.

In mixed doubles, at deuce, if the male player is serving, he will serve to the male player on the opposing team regardless of which half of the court he is standing on. If a female player is serving, she will serve to the female player on the opposing team.

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Discuss The Wegner Method here at TW in the MTM forum or visit www.tennisteacher.com for more info.

AsK OR GIVE NO QUARTER

I play mainly doubles but prefer mens. Over time i found no matter what i did in mixed not everybody is going to be happy. If i worked oyn my twist serve i had complaints about kick & spin if i hit drop shots i had complaints. If i hit drop shots and followed it with a lob i got lots of complaints. Hard serves are more than fair game in my book.
were i play their are mens groups , womens and mixed. Because my wife comes with me on mondays the only group is mixed.
I know its not the answer for everyone and it causes me some problems(even my wife squeals if i drop shot her and, she has a lifelong tennis background) i pretty much do what i want. If not everybody is going to be happy, i might as well be.
Playing in some organised social groups i will play against some older weaker females were you just go with the flow and make it enjoyable for everyone.
On the whole i just play my game. If i am outclassed i take whatever they dish out if i play against weaker oponents i expect them to accept my shots

I believe you owe it to the opponents to play the best you can, regardless of opponent or situation.
They got themselves into this situation.
A 5.0 female is every bit as good as a 4.0 guy. Would you back off your serves to a 4.0 GUY?
Are you playing tennis or are you trying to score points with the opposing female?
And since your opposing male is not taking it easy on your partner, why would you decide to be chivalrous right now?
Since your partner is 4.5, are you 6.0 so your team has the advantage?

I believe you owe it to the opponents to play the best you can, regardless of opponent or situation.
They got themselves into this situation.
A 5.0 female is every bit as good as a 4.0 guy. Would you back off your serves to a 4.0 GUY?
Are you playing tennis or are you trying to score points with the opposing female?
And since your opposing male is not taking it easy on your partner, why would you decide to be chivalrous right now?
Since your partner is 4.5, are you 6.0 so your team has the advantage?

Hi LeeD ~

I understand your point and I can assure you scoring points with the females is not the issue. Actually, I wasn't going to even acknowledge that statement but since you wrote it I feel we should get that out of the way first. If you knew me, you would never have written that.

You're quoting numbers at us as if they equate to physical reality.

Originally Posted by LeeD

A 5.0 female is every bit as good as a 4.0 guy. Would you back off your serves to a 4.0 GUY?

NTRP numbers are set to provide some sort of guideline as to where a person is and where they'd like to get to based upon like Players. Skill is not equal to Power nor is Power equal to Skill. And I'm not suggesting a woman can not handle a 130-135 Serve down the T, however I play doubles very seldom and mixed even less than that. Therefore my mindset upon entering a friendly game of Mixed Doubles is more for the fun than bragging rights.

If it were say a Tournament, maybe I'd adapt a different head-space on this issue but when four people get together on a Weekend afternoon to have some fun, I don't find any enjoyment in watching someone struggle just to get their racquet on the ball. Personally, I enjoy the battle for Net dominance, being impressed by awesome passing shots and incredible Volleys.

John won almost 100% of the points he served to Jo during our match, whereas Leslie returned approx. 80% of my serves to her which didn't give them that much of an advantage because since I was determined not to throw heat at her, I did however go for placement that hopefully setup the put-away off her return.

6.0 ??? Hell I haven't played at that level in a long time. If I have an Ice Cold Corona just before playing, I'm pretty darn close to 5.5 but in the past
6 or 7 months, I've been honestly closer to 5.0 and one night around Thanksgiving weekend, I was no better than a 4.5 Player because I just couldn't get my legs to move. But thanks for the vote of confidence.

I believe Venus Williams has broken the Buck Thirty mark and have watched most of them sail pass her opponents. Although, it is obvious the ladies on the Tour are getting their serves up there and if you can hit them, you should be able to return them.

My argument isn't whether a lady can control a serve of that magnitude but more so is it fitting to throw a ball in at that rate if you've taken note that she can't handle it? If you are out there to have FUN, what's the point of just blasting balls by just to show that you can? Is that the point?

Rules unwritten but not unspoken

To be honest there is too much manipulation in mixed doubles. I find it becomes more of a situation of not upsetting the women rather than just playing tennis. I have had great mixed matches but it is something i have to pick and choose. In Australia we have a lot of groups that you join in on to get court time. They try and match up the levels but sometimes you get stuck. In those cases its best to just take it easy and everybody gets something out of the day.
Seniors mixed competition is entirely different. there are a lot of UNWRITTEN BUT NOT UNSPOKEN RULES. You are really under the dark cloud of disapproval from the women if, you dont tow the line.
As in most clubs the women do the most work but make the most trouble.
So i have made it a point to try to avoid mixed.