Take away KG from Doc Rivers, Kobe from Zenmaster, Duncan from Pop, and all those coaches will look like "clueless as MC".

Click to expand...

no argument from me that the players ultimately have to get the job done on the floor. but...

there's a difference between being less successful (which I agree would happen in all of the cases you mention) and looking clueless. I really doubt that Jackson or Pop would ever look clueless on a consistent basis, no matter who they had or didn't have on their team. I'm guessing their teams would play to their potential the vast majority of the time.

no argument from me that the players ultimately have to get the job done on the floor. but...

there's a difference between being less successful (which I agree would happen in all of the cases you mention) and looking clueless. I really doubt that Jackson or Pop would ever look clueless on a consistent basis, no matter who they had or didn't have on their team. I'm guessing their teams would play to their potential the vast majority of the time.

Click to expand...

what if this season was the pistons potential? I think MC is a pretty good coach.

what if this season was the pistons potential? I think MC is a pretty good coach.

Click to expand...

The results were obviously NOT their potential. I will never believe for a second that a team that did not have a major roster turnover would plummet this quickly (59 wins and 2 games from the finals to 39 wins).

The results were obviously NOT their potential. I will never believe for a second that a team that did not have a major roster turnover would plummet this quickly (59 wins and 2 games from the finals to 39 wins).

Click to expand...

You can't compare the two teams, One had CB and very little injuries the other had AI drama and a season full of injuries.

On a bright note the Pistons have 22 losses where the games have been separated by 4 or less points going into the final minute of the game, 22 minutes away from being 61-20.

If MC had the team we had last year I honestly see him winning at least 50 games; The drop off in coaching is not as extreme as most of you think the circumstances lead MC to a sub .500 record not coaching.

(Let it be known I hate using trivial stats and otherwise silly comparison, I just feel this "MC is a bad coach" debate is a very one sided argument on the forums at the moment.)

Maybe you guys have already covered this, but What Tremendous Foolishness was that when MC called our last timeout?

The Bulls had their offensive unit on the floor with Ben Gordon, who had been getting torched by Rip throughout the game. Not only that, but on his layup to take the lead, he got a crippling crotch injury and was squirming on the floor. We had a 5 on 4 possession if we wanted it. Not only that, but a 5 on 4 against their offensive unit.

TIMEOUT???????????????????

Of course, the Bulls immediately sub out their weak defenders and take out Ben Gordon out on a stretcher. And the Pistons ran MC's diagrammed play to perfection and it still wasn't enough.

"Sheed, I want you to float around the 3-point line like you would have if I didn't call this timeout. When you get the ball, don't shoot the open 3, because they will be expecting that. Wait for the defender and then force one up. Make it look like a 3-pointer, but it's really going to be a pass to Dyess. And Antonio, here's where it gets really tricky. I want you to throw and alley oop to yourself off the side of the backboard like Dwight Howard did in the All-Star dunk contest. There probably won't be any defenders nearby because they are all going to assume Big Shot Sheed made the 3-pointer and they'll be hanging their heads. Break."

Mine is that Herrmann did absolutely nothing to help our defense while out there, and that the other 4 players, all good defenders, rotated well enough to compensate. (Afflalo, Bynum, JMAX, Kwame.)

The above paragraph has been included in many of my game reports of late. I don't feel I have to cover the exact same ground every report. If you have not been reading my previous game reports, consider yourself enlightened now.

Click to expand...

I am so enlightened everytime you enlighten me with enlightening illusions of your enlightable conclusions.

You can't compare the two teams, One had CB and very little injuries the other had AI drama and a season full of injuries.

If MC had the team we had last year I honestly see him winning at least 50 games; The drop off in coaching is not as extreme as most of you think the circumstances lead MC to a sub .500 record not coaching.

(Let it be known I hate using trivial stats and otherwise silly comparison, I just feel this "MC is a bad coach" debate is a very one sided argument on the forums at the moment.)

Click to expand...

You might well be right about this. My point was not so much to bash curry, but just to lay waste to the absurd implication in raxrets's post that: "well, Pop, Curry, Phil Jackson, it's all the same because the players have to get it done." In other words, maybe MC would win 50 games with last year's team; but Pop or Phil J could well have gotten to the finals or even won it with last year's team. Curry may not be as horrible as we say, and he certainly is not solely responsible for the team sucking this year (though I don't think anyone is saying that except maybe Lee), but there's no way to argue that he's helped the team or made them better, or that we'd have had the same won loss record this year (even with the trade, the drama, and the injuries) if Phil Jackson or Pop were coaching the team.

You might well be right about this. My point was not so much to bash curry, but just to lay waste to the absurd implication in raxrets's post that: "well, Pop, Curry, Phil Jackson, it's all the same because the players have to get it done." In other words, maybe MC would win 50 games with last year's team; but Pop or Phil J could well have gotten to the finals or even won it with last year's team. Curry may not be as horrible as we say, and he certainly is not solely responsible for the team sucking this year (though I don't think anyone is saying that except maybe Lee), but there's no way to argue that he's helped the team or made them better, or that we'd have had the same won loss record this year (even with the trade, the drama, and the injuries) if Phil Jackson or Pop were coaching the team.

Ooh, uh, yeah. I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there. Yeah. Uh, he's been real flaky lately and I'm not sure that he's the caliber person you want for coaching. He's been having some problems with his +/- reports.

You might well be right about this. My point was not so much to bash curry, but just to lay waste to the absurd implication in raxrets's post that: "well, Pop, Curry, Phil Jackson, it's all the same because the players have to get it done." In other words, maybe MC would win 50 games with last year's team; but Pop or Phil J could well have gotten to the finals or even won it with last year's team. Curry may not be as horrible as we say, and he certainly is not solely responsible for the team sucking this year (though I don't think anyone is saying that except maybe Lee), but there's no way to argue that he's helped the team or made them better, or that we'd have had the same won loss record this year (even with the trade, the drama, and the injuries) if Phil Jackson or Pop were coaching the team.

Click to expand...

I'm afraid that if MC were coaching the Cavs; they would have struggled to make the play offs.

Laebron would have averaged 42 minutes a game; playing big minutes because they would not have had the blow outs they enjoyed.

Ilgauskus would have also been playing big minutes because Varejao would have only seen spot minutes.

Varejao would have been in and out of the line up ala Amir because the things he does on the floor don't always show up on the stat sheet.

Wally would have played way more minutes because like Walter, he can shoot and spread the floor. Put him down for 30+ minutes rather then 20.

The similarities between the squads and how Curry would have played them would be interesting. Lebron averaged 37 minutes throughout the year and was highest on the team. Mo Williams and D. West were next with 35 and 33. No one else on the team averaged more then 29. Our starting six all averaged more then 30 and they are all older.

Will be interesting if Curry is able to match up with them with our roster or just trots out the same rotations and sits and watches the results.

Langlois: There was a play drawn up. Michael Curry wanted a shot to be taken in the first eight seconds. There were 43 seconds left. The idea was to get a good, quick shot up so that no matter what, the Pistons would get one more possession. The play called for Antonio McDyess and Rodney Stuckey to run a pick-and-roll play up high with Rip Hamilton in one corner and Rasheed Wallace in the other. But Stuckey and McDyess read the play differently and Stuckey was forced to improvise, mindful that a quick shot was desired. Rose made a good play, although replays showed he had a full handful of Stuckey’s shooting hand

Click to expand...

.

This forum, it seems, blames too much coach, but I have always stated that everything relies finally on players. Playgrounds are not factories, coaches are not engineeres and players are not robots.