destroy.all.monsters wrote:@End User - can't tell if you're an Apple zealot or merely anti-Blackberry but it seems like you're reaching.

I'm anti physical keyboard. The Q10 is a dinosaur and a mistake (display) but BlackBerry has to sell it to keep the dinosaurs happy.

destroy.all.monsters wrote:Philldoe is exactly right - Blackberry is still ahead of Windows Phone. We can speculate about the future (as pointless as I think that is) but MS would die to have BB's market share.

BB 10's market share is 0 at the moment. I'd say Windows Phone 8 has the advantage right now.

Don't you have a shred of worry/reality about the state of BlackBerry? I've been following CrackBerry.com and it's all rah rah rah denial over there. Really odd. That bizarre dev video from a few months ago http://goo.gl/BFdwI was pure nuts! What about the keynote?!? OMG! Celebrity as a Creative Director?!!?!? And what the heck was with the "don't touch" the Q10 after the keynote. Very odd.

"Meanwhile, distributors sold a total of 203,000 Apple slabs including the fourth iteration of the iPad."

"distributors were handed just 19,000 iPad Minis as Apple hogged the supply, prioritising stock for its stores and for then for Premium Resellers."

That was taken from the article BGR was referring to.

In the distributor channel the iPad outsold the PlayBook. The numbers for the iPad do not factor in sales by Apple nor sales by Premium resellers. Overall the iPad sales totally smoked sales of the Playbook in the "last 2 months".

The article has incredibly misleading title.

Philldoe wrote:

Stalin wrote:Blackberry is competing against Apple, Google and Microsoft. Does it have a chance? I think not!

BBM remains their USP which is a big plus. They dont have nothing to offer to non BB users who have tasted Android and iOS.

Yeah, I think it does. MS has been trying to grab the #3 spot from RIM/Blackberry for some time now and it keeps failing to do so.

BB 10 devices currently have a marketshare of 0. Lets see what the numbers are in 6 months.

End User, your posts are quite misleading to some one not paying attention to every single work there. Yes BB10 has 0 market share. But it is only because they have released just a few days ago and IIRC they began selling today/yesterday. Now let's take stock of total share by company. Most of the graphs I've dug up from searching do not show 4Q 2012 but show 3Q 2012 and all of them state RIM/Blackberry at 7%-7.2% while Windows Phone is stick at less than 5% with most showing 2%-3%.

Again, MS has tried very hard to outsell RIM/Blackberry but they keep failing to do so by a large margin. Too many people Know and Understand that a true smartphone is a utility, and no one can do the various forms of communication better than a Blackberry. Not everyone wants to be botherd with a crappy touchscreen keyboard and RIM/Blackberry will sell the crap out of the Q10. People like myself want a proper communication device, not a toy for gaming and facebook.

EDIT: for those just peeking in, Yes BBOS 6 and BBOS 7 Devices will still be selling and counting toward RIM/Blackberry's market share.

Fastfreak39: I feel like they should change the phrase "jumping on the band wagon" to "sailing on the pirate ship"

Philldoe wrote:End User, your posts are quite misleading to some one not paying attention to every single work there. Yes BB10 has 0 market share. But it is only because they have released just a few days ago and IIRC they began selling today/yesterday. Now let's take stock of total share by company. Most of the graphs I've dug up from searching do not show 4Q 2012 but show 3Q 2012 and all of them state RIM/Blackberry at 7%-7.2% while Windows Phone is stick at less than 5% with most showing 2%-3%.

Too many people Know and Understand that a true smartphone is a utility, and no one can do the various forms of communication better than a Blackberry.

End User wrote:That may have been the case back in 2001-2008 but it is widely accepted that Blackberry no longer has the lead in that department.

That is your opinion, I can cite many others that will agree that the notification and communication systems of iOS and Android are pathetic compared to BBOS/BB10

Not everyone wants to be botherd with a crappy touchscreen keyboard and RIM/Blackberry will sell the crap out of the Q10.

End User wrote:So you think the Z10 is crappy?

You are putting words in my mouth. Bad boy. Stop grasping at straws and come up with a better argument. When you look at those who spend the most time typing on a phone you will see that people on a QWERTY non touch device will produce text faster and with fewer errors than those on touch screen devices. I owned an all touch BBOS7 phone, the 9650 if I have my model correct. It was a very nice phone, but I ended up trading it in for a 9800 due to the fact that I could type much faster and accuratly on the physical keyboard, and with over 50 emails in an 8 hour day needing ASAP responses, I needed to be able to respond with little fuss over typing errors. RIM/Blackberry is not going to let go of a market they have an iron fist grip on. Neysay all you wish about this, you will be wrong.

People like myself want a proper communication device, not a toy for gaming and facebook.

End User wrote:Based upon what I saw at the BB10 keynote they made a big deal about both gaming and Facebook.

They have to reach out to this area to help regain share in the North American markets, this does not mean they are taking away from their bread and butter of ease of communication.

You are going to have to try much harder than that bud. I've spent a lot of time with Android, BBOS, QNX/Playbook OS, and iOS to know what is good and what isn't. What most people want and what they do not want. The old BB phones are not what most people wanted, but those who demanded security and the best email communication pretty much all agree BlackBerry did it best, average consumers were wowed at games and other doo-dads of other phones and did not require or care about email and communication aside from facebook and twitter. Thorsten Heins saw this and has given his company a fix that will play out quite nicely for them.

You have done little more than let yourself be convinced by analysts that BlackBerry is dead and dieing, yet you've failed to see that BlackBerry's are still selling quite well, even outselling other options around the world. The North American market is not the end all be all of Smartphones and BlackBerry's remain king in a large portion of the world, and are now geared up to take back much of what they lost over the past 2 years.

Fastfreak39: I feel like they should change the phrase "jumping on the band wagon" to "sailing on the pirate ship"

Philldoe wrote:People like myself want a proper communication device, not a toy for gaming and facebook.

Your words don't make sense to me... Facebook, just like most other social networks, IS a "communication device" by itself - many people and organizations use it for business purposes... Just like Twitter, or Skype, or thousands of various "proper communication" apps existing on Android and Apple devices and being superior in terms of features, reliability and ease of use than any other versions of same apps on barely surviving mobile platforms.

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Philldoe wrote:even outselling other options around the world. The North American market is not the end all be all of Smartphones and BlackBerry's remain king in a large portion of the world, and are now geared up to take back much of what they lost over the past 2 years.

In how many countries "around the world" you have been? I've spend a lot of time in Russia and other former USSR republics (many of my relatives live there, one of my close friends here used to work for "MTS" - one of the largest mobile operators on former USSR territory), not a lot of people there even know about BlackBerry devices, let alone use any of them. Most of the people rely on cheap Android-based devices there (China imports A LOT of them there, for extremely low prices), even for business purposes. This is from my first-hand experience, regardless of randomly generated "statistics" you may see on fanboy sites.

P.S: You CrackBerry fanbots are funny No matter what people say to you, you just ignore it, then go to YouTube, turn on Dido's "White Flag" at max volume and sing these lyrics with her:

"But I will go down with this shipAnd I won't put my hands up and surrenderThere will be no white flag above my door I'm in love and always will be"

Philldoe wrote:People like myself want a proper communication device, not a toy for gaming and facebook.

Your words don't make sense to me... Facebook, just like most other social networks, IS a "communication device" by itself - many people and organizations use it for business purposes... Just like Twitter, or Skype, or thousands of various "proper communication" apps existing on Android and Apple devices and being superior in terms of features, reliability and ease of use than any other versions of same apps on barely surviving mobile platforms.

Facebook integrates into the BBOS just as well as it does in other platforms. And last I used Facebook stuff on my BlackBerry it was actually more organised when it came to sharing information. I'm not sure if Video chatting has been added into the Facebook app for BB10 though. I quit using Facebook some time ago.

JohnC wrote:In how many countries "around the world" you have been? I've spend a lot of time in Russia and other former USSR republics (many of my relatives live there, one of my close friends here used to work for "MTS" - one of the largest mobile operators on former USSR territory), not a lot of people there even know about BlackBerry devices, let alone use any of them. Most of the people rely on cheap Android-based devices there (China imports A LOT of them there, for extremely low prices), even for business purposes. This is from my first-hand experience, regardless of randomly generated "statistics" you may see on fanboy sites.

P.S: You CrackBerry fanbots are funny No matter what people say to you, you just ignore it, then go to YouTube, turn on Dido's "White Flag" at max volume and sing these lyrics with her:

"But I will go down with this shipAnd I won't put my hands up and surrenderThere will be no white flag above my door I'm in love and always will be"

Yeah no idea about that youtube vid, and I am not a Crackberry Fanbot. I spend the majority of my time here. Have been doing so since 04

As for other countries. Look at Southeast Asia and Africa. Oh I guess you missed the newsposts about it all. I'll sit in the camp that knows BB10 is going to do great things for BlackBerry and you can sit in your room of denial that thinks BB10 is going nowhere.

Fastfreak39: I feel like they should change the phrase "jumping on the band wagon" to "sailing on the pirate ship"

You have done little more than let yourself be convinced by analysts that BlackBerry is dead and dieing, yet you've failed to see that BlackBerry's are still selling quite well, even outselling other options around the world. The North American market is not the end all be all of Smartphones and BlackBerry's remain king in a large portion of the world, and are now geared up to take back much of what they lost over the past 2 years.

You still don't get it. RIM is dead. What RIM stood for is dead. RIM's products are dead. RIM was fatally wounded back in 2007/8 when they ignored the bright lights emanating from Cupertino (iOS) and Mountain View (Android). Blackberry (the 2013 company) should have happened 5 years ago but they dropped the ball due to their unbelievable arrogance. The only hope Blackberry has now is that the BB10 ecosystem takes off quickly/strongly in the NA market. If not then they are done. The physical QWERTY keyboard ain't gonna save them buddy boy.

Last edited by End User on Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

BlackBerry 10 is delayed until March/April, it's hard to say how well it works until we can actually play with it in stores. But anyway...

BlackBerry may do well if businesses force their employees to use BB, but their enterprise presence has diminished with the increasing trend of BYOD. I also expect BlackBerry's BES to face more competitive options such as Microsoft's InTune which also can manage enterprise mobile devices.

Consumer sales and brand loyalty was fueled in part by BBM, but there are reports that where it was once the most popular (SE Asia), it no longer is. Facebook. Most users dropped BB, and moved to cheap Android. With a dead social network, BBM may no longer drive sales, so how much market share BB can reclaim is a question.

Btw, BlackBerry looks somewhat like a muted WinPhone 8. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.- BB looks like it uses tiles and flat icons like WP8- BB aggregates messaging as does WP8

I favor the 920 due to its color and live tiles, and especially low light photography capability (gizmodo evaluated the BB camera, it was the WORST of all the phones) - I like to photograph what I eat when I eat out.

Too many people Know and Understand that a true smartphone is a utility, and no one can do the various forms of communication better than a Blackberry.

That may have been the case back in 2001-2008 but it is widely accepted that Blackberry no longer has the lead in that department.

Based on anecdotal evidence? I've used all 3 smartphones, an iphone 4S, Samsung S2 and BB 9810. Blackberry is by far the best communication device. The call quality is best on the BB and I can type out emails faster on a physical keyboard than virtual one.

moog wrote:BlackBerry 10 is delayed until March/April, it's hard to say how well it works until we can actually play with it in stores.

Not quite, carriers in the US are not shipping it until then. Go to elsewhere in the world and it is available right now or in the next few days. I think that tells you whether the problem is with the OS or the carriers.

You have done little more than let yourself be convinced by analysts that BlackBerry is dead and dieing, yet you've failed to see that BlackBerry's are still selling quite well, even outselling other options around the world. The North American market is not the end all be all of Smartphones and BlackBerry's remain king in a large portion of the world, and are now geared up to take back much of what they lost over the past 2 years.

You still don't get it. RIM is dead. What RIM stood for is dead. RIM's products are dead. RIM was fatally wounded back in 2007/8 when they ignored the bright lights emanating from Cupertino (iOS) and Mountain View (Android). Blackberry (the 2013 company) should have happened 5 years ago but they dropped the ball due to their unbelievable arrogance. The only hope Blackberry has now is that the BB10 ecosystem takes off quickly/strongly in the NA market. If not then they are done. The physical QWERTY keyboard ain't gonna save them buddy boy.

People said the same thing about Windows Phone. It's not dead, it just isn't the King anymore. You sound more like an anti-BlackBerry shill than I sound like a Blackberry Fanboi bub.

Fastfreak39: I feel like they should change the phrase "jumping on the band wagon" to "sailing on the pirate ship"

Too many people Know and Understand that a true smartphone is a utility, and no one can do the various forms of communication better than a Blackberry.

That may have been the case back in 2001-2008 but it is widely accepted that Blackberry no longer has the lead in that department.

Based on anecdotal evidence? I've used all 3 smartphones, an iphone 4S, Samsung S2 and BB 9810. Blackberry is by far the best communication device. The call quality is best on the BB and I can type out emails faster on a physical keyboard than virtual one.

Philldoe wrote:As for other countries. Look at Southeast Asia and Africa. Oh I guess you missed the newsposts about it all. I'll sit in the camp that knows BB10 is going to do great things for BlackBerry and you can sit in your room of denial that thinks BB10 is going nowhere.

Well, there goes that dream:

"So it's unlikely that the Z10 model introduced last week, which operators in India expect to sell for around $750, will appeal to the users it must reach if it is to build market share."

""I survived without BlackBerry because there's WhatsApp," he said. "More and more people use it and so I don't need BBM anymore.""

"At the same time, higher-end users have deserted what is increasingly seen as a low-end brand."

"While BlackBerry remained the number one smartphone brand in Indonesia in the second quarter of last year, the most recent period for which rankings were available, Android overtook it as the most popular operating system, according to IDC."

That's what you get when you blindly rely on outdated randomly generated "statistics" I wonder if his next reply will be "...but, but according to numbers from 2001, BB sells very well on whole territory of Monaco!"...

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I think in general, too little too late for BB. I agree (as an iPhone user) that a physical keyboard is vastly superior to an on screen keyboard for frequent typing. However that needs to be weighed against other device features. I don't love (or hate) my iPhone because of the lack of keyboard because there is so much more about it that I find important to me. Th keyboard is way down the list. And with that in mind, a physical keyboard would make the device bigger, heavier, and clunkier.

On the other and, if I was texting and emailing constantly on the device, more than anything else, then the keyboard might be highly important to me, and a good physical keyboard would win. I say good because I've had phones with both (Handspring Treo (great keyboard) vs HTC Tilt (awful keyboard)) and the bad keyboard actually made the device as a whole worse. The good keyboard made typing easier and faster.

In the end, though, I think these devices will be a threat to Windows phone more than anything else. The question will be whether BB has it in them to play the long game against MS. Because MS is well known for their ability to pour money into losing technologies for years before finally giving up or making it better enough.

Not sure if they can save the company, but I admire them for trying. A year ago I owned a BlackBerry Storm and loved it....until I needed to access the internet from it while out in the field. When I first bought the storm, searching for additional properties while showing clients houses wasn't really done. Things changed and they changed quickly in the 3 years I had the phone.

I don't think BlackBerry changed quick enough and lost too much market share. I'm not sure if they will be able to regain it.

Don't get me wrong...I loved my BlackBerry. Loved the way it handles email and was virtually indestructible. I dropped that phone so many times and the touch screen never broke. I swear it was made out of titanium and thick gorilla glass! If they can get merge the indestructible-ness with the ability to access the internet quickly, then maybe, just maybe they can save the company.

Not sure if I will go back....have my eye on the Samsung when I am eligible to upgrade again in December. Maybe the IV will be available then!

You have done little more than let yourself be convinced by analysts that BlackBerry is dead and dieing, yet you've failed to see that BlackBerry's are still selling quite well, even outselling other options around the world. The North American market is not the end all be all of Smartphones and BlackBerry's remain king in a large portion of the world, and are now geared up to take back much of what they lost over the past 2 years.

You still don't get it. RIM is dead. What RIM stood for is dead. RIM's products are dead. RIM was fatally wounded back in 2007/8 when they ignored the bright lights emanating from Cupertino (iOS) and Mountain View (Android). Blackberry (the 2013 company) should have happened 5 years ago but they dropped the ball due to their unbelievable arrogance. The only hope Blackberry has now is that the BB10 ecosystem takes off quickly/strongly in the NA market. If not then they are done. The physical QWERTY keyboard ain't gonna save them buddy boy.