What an epic battle between the two teams most likely to snatch defeat away from victory.

You get a couple a dumb ass coaches, you get a couple a dumb ass teams.

Not sure exactly what my favorite part of today was. Perhaps it was when the cameras would volley between the two coaches in the second half, with each of those two idiots having as nervous a look as a guy about to be backroomed at the Stardust.

Perhaps it was Dallas doing some sort of ridiculous kickoff, giving a team that actully wants to win - instead of try to run out the entire second half clock for the second time in three games, a golden opportunity to put it out of reach, and having Shurmer send out the old dive, dive, bad pass, punt series we know and love.

I mean really, you play to lose, you've got a dumb undisciplined team, you call stupid shit every week, and you run schemes from the 80's. Christ, couldn't win a high school playoff game last night without scoring 40, yet two rungs up on the ladder, the Browns are running four plays a game, and indicating damn near every one with a useless fullback. Had to be a week off for a blowhard like Ryan, what the hell'd the guy have to prepare for.

I really hate to be the guy who roots for the backup quarterback, but for the love of man Brandon Weeden is nothing but Derek Anderson Jr. I think we have the best group of pass catchers since the team returned, and they are being wasted by a guy who has no concept of how to get the ball in his receivers' hands to make plays. I really hate the fact that until Holmgren and Shurmur (and hopefully Heckert, for being stupid enough to trade up for Richardson and compounding it by drafting Weeden) are gone I'm barely able to root for the Browns.

I liked the Browns running a play with 2:07 on the game clock and 11 seconds on the play clock in the 4th quarter. Good idea when you are going in for the game winning score to save Dallas a timeout...

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

jfiling wrote:I really hate to be the guy who roots for the backup quarterback, but for the love of man Brandon Weeden is nothing but Derek Anderson Jr. I think we have the best group of pass catchers since the team returned, and they are being wasted by a guy who has no concept of how to get the ball in his receivers' hands to make plays. I really hate the fact that until Holmgren and Shurmur (and hopefully Heckert, for being stupid enough to trade up for Richardson and compounding it by drafting Weeden) are gone I'm barely able to root for the Browns.

And if McCoy played they'd be even worse because if Weeden is shit then Colt is elephant shit. I would gladly put a bullet in his head if it meant never having to hear anyone mention his name ever again. (DA was better than Colt too)

I happily missed most of the game, but I can't watch any offensive player without thinking "I wonder how they would do if they had a competent coach?"

I'm not going to make any blanket statements about anyone on this team until Shurmster has been relocated.

At 2-8, why anyone is still getting angry about this team with its walking dead coaching staff is beyond me. These games are meaningless.

Last edited by Hikohadon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jfiling wrote:I really hate to be the guy who roots for the backup quarterback, but for the love of man Brandon Weeden is nothing but Derek Anderson Jr. I think we have the best group of pass catchers since the team returned, and they are being wasted by a guy who has no concept of how to get the ball in his receivers' hands to make plays. I really hate the fact that until Holmgren and Shurmur (and hopefully Heckert, for being stupid enough to trade up for Richardson and compounding it by drafting Weeden) are gone I'm barely able to root for the Browns.

And if McCoy played they'd be even worse because if Weeden is shit then Colt is elephant shit. I would gladly put a bullet in his head if it meant never having to hear anyone mention his name ever again. (DA was better than Colt too)

I happily missed most of the game, but I can't watch any offensive player without thinking "I wonder how they would do if they had a competent coach?"

I'm not going to make any retarded blanket statements about anyone on this team until Shurmster has been relocated.

At 2-8, why anyone is still getting angry about this team with its walking dead coaching staff is beyond me. These games are meaningless.

jfiling wrote:I really hate to be the guy who roots for the backup quarterback, but for the love of man Brandon Weeden is nothing but Derek Anderson Jr. I think we have the best group of pass catchers since the team returned, and they are being wasted by a guy who has no concept of how to get the ball in his receivers' hands to make plays. I really hate the fact that until Holmgren and Shurmur (and hopefully Heckert, for being stupid enough to trade up for Richardson and compounding it by drafting Weeden) are gone I'm barely able to root for the Browns.

And if McCoy played they'd be even worse because if Weeden is shit then Colt is elephant shit. I would gladly put a bullet in his head if it meant never having to hear anyone mention his name ever again. (DA was better than Colt too)

I happily missed most of the game, but I can't watch any offensive player without thinking "I wonder how they would do if they had a competent coach?"

I'm not going to make any retarded blanket statements about anyone on this team until Shurmster has been relocated.

At 2-8, why anyone is still getting angry about this team with its walking dead coaching staff is beyond me. These games are meaningless.

Yeah, I've worked through all those Seven stages - I hit Acceptance a long time ago. Fourth quarter and overtime, I was calm. I knew they would screw up, I just didn't know how.

jfiling wrote:I really hate to be the guy who roots for the backup quarterback, but for the love of man Brandon Weeden is nothing but Derek Anderson Jr. I think we have the best group of pass catchers since the team returned, and they are being wasted by a guy who has no concept of how to get the ball in his receivers' hands to make plays. I really hate the fact that until Holmgren and Shurmur (and hopefully Heckert, for being stupid enough to trade up for Richardson and compounding it by drafting Weeden) are gone I'm barely able to root for the Browns.

And if McCoy played they'd be even worse because if Weeden is shit then Colt is elephant shit. I would gladly put a bullet in his head if it meant never having to hear anyone mention his name ever again. (DA was better than Colt too)

I happily missed most of the game, but I can't watch any offensive player without thinking "I wonder how they would do if they had a competent coach?"

I'm not going to make any blanket statements about anyone on this team until Shurmster has been relocated.

At 2-8, why anyone is still getting angry about this team with its walking dead coaching staff is beyond me. These games are meaningless.

Yeah, but I'm really not sure how competent a coach would have to be to teach a 29 year old rookie how to not fire passes 90 mph to guys 5 yards away, or to not toss the ball 3 feet over your receivers' heads. Shurmur is a complete disaster, but Weeden is a disaster one level below Shurmur.

jfiling wrote:I really hate to be the guy who roots for the backup quarterback, but for the love of man Brandon Weeden is nothing but Derek Anderson Jr. I think we have the best group of pass catchers since the team returned, and they are being wasted by a guy who has no concept of how to get the ball in his receivers' hands to make plays. I really hate the fact that until Holmgren and Shurmur (and hopefully Heckert, for being stupid enough to trade up for Richardson and compounding it by drafting Weeden) are gone I'm barely able to root for the Browns.

And if McCoy played they'd be even worse because if Weeden is shit then Colt is elephant shit. I would gladly put a bullet in his head if it meant never having to hear anyone mention his name ever again. (DA was better than Colt too)

I happily missed most of the game, but I can't watch any offensive player without thinking "I wonder how they would do if they had a competent coach?"

I'm not going to make any blanket statements about anyone on this team until Shurmster has been relocated.

At 2-8, why anyone is still getting angry about this team with its walking dead coaching staff is beyond me. These games are meaningless.

Yeah, but I'm really not sure how competent a coach would have to be to teach a 29 year old rookie how to not fire passes 90 mph to guys 5 yards away, or to not toss the ball 3 feet over your receivers' heads. Shurmur is a complete disaster, but Weeden is a disaster one level below Shurmur.

The new me doesn't care enough to bother. Yep, Weeden's the main problem. He's hampering Shurmur's otherwise excellent game plan. Colt would have this team at .500 since he throws much softer checkdowns. I agree with anything anyone says.

jfiling wrote:I really hate to be the guy who roots for the backup quarterback, but for the love of man Brandon Weeden is nothing but Derek Anderson Jr. I think we have the best group of pass catchers since the team returned, and they are being wasted by a guy who has no concept of how to get the ball in his receivers' hands to make plays. I really hate the fact that until Holmgren and Shurmur (and hopefully Heckert, for being stupid enough to trade up for Richardson and compounding it by drafting Weeden) are gone I'm barely able to root for the Browns.

You are watching a different game than I am watching.

'Cause there are a myriad of problems with this team. And Brandon Weedon may indeed be one. But he's not in the top 10. And to assert that he's the same guy as DA means you didn't watch those games either.

BTW, I hate Brandon Weeden. A lot. But he's probably the best hope at QB the Browns have had since '99.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

jfiling wrote:I really hate to be the guy who roots for the backup quarterback, but for the love of man Brandon Weeden is nothing but Derek Anderson Jr. I think we have the best group of pass catchers since the team returned, and they are being wasted by a guy who has no concept of how to get the ball in his receivers' hands to make plays. I really hate the fact that until Holmgren and Shurmur (and hopefully Heckert, for being stupid enough to trade up for Richardson and compounding it by drafting Weeden) are gone I'm barely able to root for the Browns.

You are watching a different game than I am watching.

'Cause there are a myriad of problems with this team. And Brandon Weedon may indeed be one. But he's not in the top 10. And to assert that he's the same guy as DA means you didn't watch those games either.

BTW, I hate Brandon Weeden. A lot. But he's probably the best hope at QB the Browns have had since '99.

justmebd wrote:This (Except for the bullet in McCoy's head. That's just mean.)

Valid. OK, fine, I'd just cut off his head in his sleep. Don't need to be crude.

You seem more like the kind of guy who would garrotte his enemies with piano wire that retracts into your watch.

Incidentally and completely out of curiosity, any idea where one would get one of those watches?

I just did a few different searches, and I came up with zilch. It seems to me, though, you probably could just buy the correct style of watch and piano wire and have some talented person build it for you.

Frankly, I'm surprised there isn't some small company out there manufacturing replica James Bond gadgets like this one.

I guess im just not seeing Weeden coming remotely close to Derek Anderson levels of dipshit throwing the underneath routes. Hard to tell though, because it seems like the defense can read the snap count, knows where the play is going, etc. Im tired of the running back being the leading receiver in this offense, regardless of how good he may or may not be.

These games aren't meaningless to me; since week 2, it's been all about trying to figure out if they have the QB and the WR on this team to not have to waste the #1-6 overall pick on a throwaway player.

And I think I understand why (I) and Browns fans give Weeden such a long leash; it's like when a tire blows on your car, or when your garbage disposal fails, or your computer fries it's moboard. You hate spending money on something that doesn't make you better; something that just gets you to cwhere you already were. It's not an improvement, its just the GD status quo. A team with as many needs as this one has can't afford to keep wasting 1st and 2nd round picks on players that they've already recently invested in. If you keep spending the SAME premium picks on the same 3 positions because you keep dorking it up (QB, RB, WR....Colt, Hardesty, Momass, T-rich, Gordon, Little) then you're just always stuck in neutral.

I posted it a few weeks back, the only saving grace of the last 6-7 games was watching to see if Weeden, Little, Momass, and Gordon would show enough raw skill set to make you believe that you can spend those picks on the the d-lineman, linebackers, cb, and safety the team needs in order to not trot Usama Young and Buster FUCKING ARE YOU SERIOUS AGAIN WITH THE PENALTY Skrine out there every week.

Today was a step forward, just not a real one. Both TD passes were beautiful throws, in traffic. The throw to Cameron was unbelieveably mind blowingly bad, and Im wondering if BW heard SHURRR whining in his ear throughout the bye week about how his interceptions are killing the team.

Grats, Shur.....your offense is a dinosaur and your qb spends half of the game throwing to his rb and 3 yards short of the sticks.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

Gradysmanldy wrote:I guess im just not seeing Weeden coming remotely close to Derek Anderson levels of dipshit throwing the underneath routes. Hard to tell though, because it seems like the defense can read the snap count, knows where the play is going, etc. Im tired of the running back being the leading receiver in this offense, regardless of how good he may or may not be.

These games aren't meaningless to me; since week 2, it's been all about trying to figure out if they have the QB and the WR on this team to not have to waste the #1-6 overall pick on a throwaway player.

And I think I understand why (I) and Browns fans give Weeden such a long leash; it's like when a tire blows on your car, or when your garbage disposal fails, or your computer fries it's moboard. You hate spending money on something that doesn't make you better; something that just gets you to cwhere you already were. It's not an improvement, its just the GD status quo. A team with as many needs as this one has can't afford to keep wasting 1st and 2nd round picks on players that they've already recently invested in. If you keep spending the SAME premium picks on the same 3 positions because you keep dorking it up (QB, RB, WR....Colt, Hardesty, Momass, T-rich, Gordon, Little) then you're just always stuck in neutral.

I posted it a few weeks back, the only saving grace of the last 6-7 games was watching to see if Weeden, Little, Momass, and Gordon would show enough raw skill set to make you believe that you can spend those picks on the the d-lineman, linebackers, cb, and safety the team needs in order to not trot Usama Young and Buster FUCKING ARE YOU SERIOUS AGAIN WITH THE PENALTY Skrine out there every week.

Today was a step forward, just not a real one. Both TD passes were beautiful throws, in traffic. The throw to Cameron was unbelieveably mind blowingly bad, and Im wondering if BW heard SHURRR whining in his ear throughout the bye week about how his interceptions are killing the team.

Grats, Shur.....your offense is a dinosaur and your qb spends half of the game throwing to his rb and 3 yards short of the sticks.

What ticked me off was the more than one occasion where Weeden clearly didn't see the open receiver downfield and checked down to Richardson or whoever was closest. Christ, I could do that for half the money.

Gradysmanldy wrote:These games aren't meaningless to me; since week 2, it's been all about trying to figure out if they have the QB and the WR on this team to not have to waste the #1-6 overall pick on a throwaway player..

To me they are meaningless since the QB and the RB and the WR all have shown plenty of flashes but will never be able to prove or disprove their worth in this horrible Shurmur Sham so even the rudimentary question of "Can these guys play?" is unanswerable.

The answer will be the same at the end of the season as it was in Training Camp: Maybe?

And there are GD high school and Pee Wee QBs who aren't stupid enough to throw the ball out of the end zone on 4th and goal with a fucking minute left.

And that's twice now that genius has done that. Ravens game and yesterday.

Sweet. Here's hoping he's a better option than Cuddles.....still.

Like aspirin over sugar cookies to treat cancer. Fucked either way.

Not trying to defend Weeden or Gordon or even Richardson. All have had their moments, all have sucked at times.

I think it is clear that Shurmur doesn't put any of them in the best position to be successful. For instance, what kind of retard calls a back corner fade on 4th and Goal at the 1? You try that shit on 2nd down, not when the chips are on the table.

I don't care if it's Cuddles or Weeden or Tom Brady... you don't put your QB in a position where they have to make a perfect touch pass in that situation.

Frankly I don't give a shit what they do at the QB position any more. Draft another one in the 1st round in 2013 from a piss poor QB class for all I care. Just get them a competent fucking coach so they have a chance of not looking retarded. Blaming the QB for the weekly meltdown is like blaming the McDonald's cashier for their shitty burgers. He may or may not be a bad cashier, but he didn't make the damn burgers.

That goes for Cuddles too, who clearly looked better under Daboll (a retard in his own right) than he did under Shurmur. Shurmur could fuck up a wet dream.

And there are GD high school and Pee Wee QBs who aren't stupid enough to throw the ball out of the end zone on 4th and goal with a fucking minute left.

And that's twice now that genius has done that. Ravens game and yesterday.

Sweet. Here's hoping he's a better option than Cuddles.....still.

Like aspirin over sugar cookies to treat cancer. Fucked either way.

Horrible throw to go along with a horrible play call and a horrible route. I get that Cameron is 6'5" - but how high school-ish can you get with "we'll just throw it to the tallest guy" and hope it works.

BTW, that's a TD in CFL. Maybe that's where Weeds belongs. He can take his HC with him, too.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

But I am willing to ride out Tom Heckert. He was given a plan to execute and other than Mike planting QB seeds, he has done it pretty well.

Start with the lines on both sides of the ball. And both are playing really well.

The offensive line could still use a little more brute force, but that isn't the system they are playing so it is hard to kill them for it. Talent wise, the offensive line is well above average in this league. And Schwartz has really solidified it for all the abuse he took early.

The defensive line is another above average unit. Without a doubt. Again, destroyed for the Hughes pick, but the kid can play. And Winn was a steal. And Taylor is a force.

Offensive skill players? They have them. Need more development, but they have them. Could maybe use one more wideout, but overall this unit is playing much better than most will give them credit for. That is 3 units that have been greatly improved pretty much only through the draft.

The question is (as it always will be until it is not) is QB. And I just don't think you can answer it yet. I said it a couple of weeks ago and I still think the same way. He is a rookie. No level of age when you start in the NFL will change the fact you are a rookie. The difference is, his learning curve has to increase exponentially going into year 2. He can play like a rook as a rook, but needs to be a seasoned vet in year 2. So I will give him that if Jimmy and Joe want to.

I give Heckert another draft and free agency (if he is allowed to use it this time) to shore up the back 7 on defense. I think if he targets those areas, he will find some.

Just a point for everyone bitching about Weeden - his head coach called him out this past week about throwing too many interceptions. After throwing two the previous week but the last against a dime defense in a must throw play.

If you want to make a QB more conservative you call him out for that in a game where he had a ton of more serious issues and was completely off his normal game.

Anyway Weeden isn't the reason the Browns lost. Neither was the loss of Haden. Again the coaching staff just seemed to be unable to adjust and unable to be creative when it was needed. Richardson is not running well between the tackles - for whatever the reason - but they still rarely let him run outside of them where he has had most of his success. They barely attempted to throw deep against a depleted safety group for the Cowboys.

This one another game where the Browns were more talented at every position group except CB and QB and still were unable to beat the opponents.

We lost because of coaching this time. The players played well enough to win.

The playcalling was awful on both sides of the ball. Weeds made a bad throw on 4 and 1, but as others have said, that was an awful call. Embarrassing. On defense, we played with our CBs 5-10 yards off the WRs for the entire second half, even when, halfway through the 3rd is was clear that DAL was just going to take the short passes we were giving them and march down the field. The failure to adjust our CBs was probably the biggest reason we lost. We let Romo get in a rhythm and, as my Cowboy-fan of a friend pointed out, Romo is great at the short throws. It's the long ones that he screws up, so the game plan as ass-backwards from the start. Just terrible.

But at no level of football, whether you're a senior in high school or a senior in college, or at any time ever, should a QB who's played before and is old enough to know better throw the ball out of the end zone on a 4th down and goal or on the final play of the game.

Not once and certainly not twice.

Just tired of the excuses. Not you guys and not regarding Weeden specifically. Just the, "It was a close loss...they grew...they learned...bad calls...DBs suck..."

Might just be I'm getting too old for it. Closer to 50 than 40 and have heard it all and seen it all far too often.

Going to a game does not equal consoled. It might simply mean that you've had tickets for months and you and some friends are gonna tailgate until the edges of your sight are blurry so that you don't have to remember what takes place inside the stadium.

I enjoy going to Akron games quite a bit, and they suck too. I go to about 4 games a year, and I can't remember the last time I saw them win. Attending a sporting event doesn't have to mean you're satisfied with the product.

The Browns were solid. OL/DL were very good. Richardson was decent and Weeds was adequate with several good throws and several turds. Sort of a 2007 DA. I'm with pup.

The secondary lost this game. Both because of play calling and a general lack of goodness (which are linked, of course). A healthy Haden and the Browns win. Lock him on Bryant and roll everyone else to the other side of the field.

I was wrong about Haden being average. He's good. Good enough the change the defensive scheme week to week.

How can Jimmy Flying J watch this coaching staff every week? At least an interim staff would have an excuse.

Might just be I'm getting too old for it. Closer to 50 than 40 and have heard it all and seen it all far too often.

Going to a game does not equal consoled. It might simply mean that you've had tickets for months and you and some friends are gonna tailgate until the edges of your sight are blurry so that you don't have to remember what takes place inside the stadium.

I enjoy going to Akron games quite a bit, and they suck too. I go to about 4 games a year, and I can't remember the last time I saw them win. Attending a sporting event doesn't have to mean you're satisfied with the product.

Walking around down there for 10 years and listening to people talk about them makes me pretty comfortable saying people are making excuses for the org, the players and the fact that there is 'growing' being done.

In short, a shitload of excuses.

YMMV

"But they nearly"... "What about that one play"..."If they can just..."

Might just be I'm getting too old for it. Closer to 50 than 40 and have heard it all and seen it all far too often.

Going to a game does not equal consoled. It might simply mean that you've had tickets for months and you and some friends are gonna tailgate until the edges of your sight are blurry so that you don't have to remember what takes place inside the stadium.

I enjoy going to Akron games quite a bit, and they suck too. I go to about 4 games a year, and I can't remember the last time I saw them win. Attending a sporting event doesn't have to mean you're satisfied with the product.

Walking around down there for 10 years and listening to people talk about them makes me pretty comfortable saying people are making excuses for the org, the players and the fact that there is 'growing' being done.

In short, a shitload of excuses.

YMMV

"But they nearly"... "What about that one play"..."If they can just..."

I avoid him at all costs, but sometimes a little sneaks through. Like this morning on my way back from the gym (that's right I joined the gym) I got in my car and the first thing I heard was Booms yelling about how they need to bench Weeden and start McCoy for the rest of the season. Not sure I understood his reasoning.

Serious question, though, Peek. How should/could fans talk about the game without those things that you are alluding to? How can we talk about Weeden without observing that there were some good things and plenty of bad things? How can you talk about the game without playing the "what if...if only this..." happened?

What good would it be for every Browns fan in existence to say, only say, and repeat "It's hopeless until it's not hopeless."? What the hell good would that be and why are we even here (on TCF) in the first place?

Is there no distinction between legitimate discourse/observation and blind homerism?