Lovie Smith also admitted that Martz's play calling has to change. Today he said something about knowing that the balance wasn't there (they called far more passes than runs in this past game) and that they're going to correct it. It's crazy how Martz can't seem to do that himself and has to be kept on a leash.

Lovie Smith is about to find out just how hard headed Martz is. When Martz was here he said he would run a balanced offense, and didn't. If he did run in the first half, he would abandon it in the second half in his desire to air it out. He did that a couple times with the Lions holding a lead after the half, and the Lions ended up losing because our defense couldn't get off the field.

Martz won't change his ways, for Lovie Smith or anyone else. He's a firm believer in his offense, and he'll blame Smith, Cutler, the offensive tackles, the catering company or the program vendors for the problems with the offense. Whatever the case, it's not the fault of him or his system. Just ask him.

I think Martz is a decent OC and gets a lot more stick than he deserves.

Having said that, I think you either go all-in with a Martz style offense or don't bother. You're bang on that Martz isn't going to change. If the players and position coaches are getting a different message from the head coach, that's a recipie for disaster (as we saw here with Martz and our line coach not being on the same page at all).

Either go with Martz 100% and hope his system pans out for your team or get rid of him. Trying to rein him in is a sure way to fail.

So good news for the Lions that Lovie is trying to do just that!

September 21st, 2011, 7:54 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: NFC North Watch 2011

UK Lion wrote:

I think Martz is a decent OC and gets a lot more stick than he deserves.

Having said that, I think you either go all-in with a Martz style offense or don't bother. You're bang on that Martz isn't going to change. If the players and position coaches are getting a different message from the head coach, that's a recipie for disaster (as we saw here with Martz and our line coach not being on the same page at all).

Either go with Martz 100% and hope his system pans out for your team or get rid of him. Trying to rein him in is a sure way to fail.

So good news for the Lions that Lovie is trying to do just that!

I agree with you to an extent. As a coordinator and play caller I think Martz is actually among the best in the business. At issue is the fact that his scheme is dependent upon having players with very distinctive and rare skills. He had those players in St. Louis with the Rams, in the form of Orlando Pace (dominant pass blocking LT), Marshall Faulk (great all purpose back), Kurt Warner (quick release, strong arm) and receivers Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt (quick, precise route runners). If you don't have all of those ingredients, the final product suffers immensely. It also seems to me that Martz has absolutely no patience for teaching others his offense. He expects the assistants and players to pick it up quickly, and confusion soon follows. That's another recipe for disaster, and the exact reason why I think his tenure with teams is marred by a large number of sacks and negative plays. He doesn't allow the players or coaches the time to understand his system.

Many coordinators can and will adjust their scheme to the personnel on hand, until they can get the players they ultimately want. Linehan did it last year with the Lions. BJohn and DWill weren't cutting it as slot receivers, so he started using more two TE sets and flexing out Scheffler at times. That's not his typical style, but he made it work. When Hill or Stanton were in, he ditched the long ball in favor of more medium and short passing.

Martz would never do that, at all. He wants the homerun, all the time. He abandons the run all too quickly, particulary if he feels the RB he has doesn't have the single back skills needed for his offense.

Another thing is that I think Martz needs a dominant personality at head coach to oversee him. Marinelli, Nolan and now Lovie Smith just don't seem to be the strong personality that Dick Vermeil was. Just my opinion, but I think if you get someone with a stronger personality, he'll succumb to them easier and do as they say. Right now, it's going in one ear and out the other.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

September 21st, 2011, 9:23 am

BestAtMadden

Varsity Captain

Joined: September 17th, 2006, 10:50 pmPosts: 302

Re: NFC North Watch 2011

i'll give him that. he can exploit weaknesses in a defense. in a hurry. and he does like the homerun. remember that game against philly when CJ hurt his back? it was a slugfest. that quick slant to roy boy went for like 80 yards. too bad our D couldnt keep anyone under 40 or 50 points that year. plus the comeback vs. chicago was pretty sick.if the qb and wr arent on the same page it spells disaster though. i would love to be a fly on the wall during film room with martz coaching devon hester

_________________been watching our lions get worked by the nfl for 40 years

September 21st, 2011, 9:32 pm

frok

Varsity 1st Team

Joined: August 9th, 2004, 1:51 amPosts: 255Location: kalamazoo,mi

Re: NFC North Watch 2011

m2karateman wrote:

And the Bears SHOULD be quaking. They got exposed, big time, yesterday against the Saints. Chicago isn't even close to being the team they thought they were after the Atlanta game. The only reason they managed a TD was because of a BS call against Harper.

I can't wait for the Monday night game......it's a damn shame I won't be able to watch it. I'll be at the Field, working though.

What do you do at Ford Field?

edit: Maybe I should read the whole thing before asking questions. Don't you love all the "volunteer" stuff. Seems like My wife and I and just a few others are always the volunteers. I wish more parents would "step up to the plate" Good for you and your family doing your part

Frok

_________________I feel more like I do now than when I first got here.

September 21st, 2011, 11:23 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: NFC North Watch 2011

frok wrote:

m2karateman wrote:

And the Bears SHOULD be quaking. They got exposed, big time, yesterday against the Saints. Chicago isn't even close to being the team they thought they were after the Atlanta game. The only reason they managed a TD was because of a BS call against Harper.

I can't wait for the Monday night game......it's a damn shame I won't be able to watch it. I'll be at the Field, working though.

What do you do at Ford Field?

edit: Maybe I should read the whole thing before asking questions. Don't you love all the "volunteer" stuff. Seems like My wife and I and just a few others are always the volunteers. I wish more parents would "step up to the plate" Good for you and your family doing your part

Frok

I feel your pain. Our group needs 16 people at Ford Field for the events, be it a Lions game, concert or whatever. We have over 80 people that our part of our group, but it's the same people at every event, and each time we struggle to get 16 people to sign for it. I don't understand. I realize the money isn't phenomenal, but it's better than nothing. And if it can help offset the cost of my kids tuition, all the better.

And thanks.... ....to you and your family as well.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

September 22nd, 2011, 9:11 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: NFC North Watch 2011

Martz has shown he can adapt, perhaps you missed the 2010 season when the Bears passed 466 times and ran it 414. Chicago passed it less than 53% of the time and was one of the most balanced offenses in this pass happy league. (by contrast the Lions passed 633 times and ran it 404).

They also started the season passing a lot more than rushing so they really focused on the ground in the 2nd half of year.

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10019Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: NFC North Watch 2011

Pablo wrote:

Martz has shown he can adapt, perhaps you missed the 2010 season when the Bears passed 466 times and ran it 414. Chicago passed it less than 53% of the time and was one of the most balanced offenses in this pass happy league. (by contrast the Lions passed 633 times and ran it 404).

They also started the season passing a lot more than rushing so they really focused on the ground in the 2nd half of year.

But last season the Bears were running out the clock quite a bit during the season. I have a feeling that if you were to look at when the running plays took place during the games, you'll find a majority of them were on the bookends of the action....first quarter and late fourth quarter.

And then there's the little matter of Jay Cutler being used as a throw rug by opposing defenses. The Bears had to run late in the season or he'd have been hurt much earlier than the playoff game.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

September 22nd, 2011, 12:07 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 3955Location: Davison Mi

Re: NFC North Watch 2011

to be fair last year about week 6 or seven they changed things up and went signifcantly more run. Im sure most of you rememeber the awful start they had last season. the few wins being due to luck or bad calls from the ref (cough cough). but afterwards they started to run the ball quite a bit and low and behold, they were a pretty decent football team.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

September 23rd, 2011, 1:59 pm

thelomasbrowns

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2431

Re: NFC North Watch 2011

Martz is also a terrible judge of talent. If he weren't on such a short leash already in Chicago, I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to start Enderle.

_________________"There were a couple times where I was just like, 'Is that legal?" Warford said. "Cause he was getting laid out. I was like, 'Someone might call the cops. This is not fair.'"

September 26th, 2011, 12:48 pm

thelomasbrowns

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2431

Re: NFC North Watch 2011

Damn, don't think San Diego is gonna pull this off. Rodgers is perfect.

_________________"There were a couple times where I was just like, 'Is that legal?" Warford said. "Cause he was getting laid out. I was like, 'Someone might call the cops. This is not fair.'"