Mid_mo_mad_man:So following your reasoning Canada should belong to the Danes since they where the first to settle it?

As a part Native American man, I can say:

You're racist.

Taking over a land and killing off all who've been there for thousands of years doesn't exactly put you on the moral high ground when it comes to ethical considerations of whose land it was. Whether that be the case with the native tribes of the Americas or the native Semitic tribes of the middle east. Yet, ethics are never so simple, are they?

Plus, you need to work on your reading comprehension. Offering up and considering an alternative perspective with an explanation of its grounds is not the same as taking a position. Not everyone is as simplistic in their thinking as you.

ciberido:But some people's minds simply cannot comprehend that level of nuance and thus mistake it for hypocrisy..

I have been reading hypocrisy like this online for 18 years now. Terrorist attacks target Israel civilians on consistent basis, and have for years (as well as other countries like Pakistan etc).

Find any closed thread on Fark where this has come up before and someone flamed Israel (and not someone simply saying 'nuke em all'). Now, find another comment from any other closed thread where that same person has flamed Hamas or any other similar organization. Fark has been around for over a decade, if I'm wrong you should easily be able to find examples of this.

Just because you have limited ability to read nuance does not mean that people with oppositional views do.

onyxruby:topcon: The far left loves Muslims for some reason, despite the fact they're kookier on the whole than America's religious people by a wide margin. We're talking entire countries that oppress women, gays, freedom of speech, etcetera, pretty much the antithesis to social progression.

That's my point, they go around defending people who are /much/ further to the right than any of the religious fundamentalists in this country... It's a bit like if the Westboro Baptist Church was zealously defended by the local GLBT club every time they condemned gays.

The local GLBT condemns gays? Who knew?

A better example would be the ACLU showing support for same-sex marriage one day and defending the Westboro Baptist Church's right to condemn gays the next. It might seem hypocritical or confusing to people who think the entire world is divided into two teams which are polar opposites of each other.

ciberido:onyxruby: This is the wonderful thread where we get to see hypocrites that otherwise claim to be peace loving come to the defense of terrorist organizations like Hamas. You know the same organizations that put into daily practice everything that their useful idiot defenders decry anyone else doing (murder, poor treatment of woman, civil liberties etc).

Never understood people like that, it's like the vegan that says it's okay to eat hamburger from Angus cows but goes around belittling anyone who dares to eat the meat of any other cow or other animal as being cruel to animals. Stand back, grab your marshmallows and get ready to watch everyone flame everyone....

topcon: The far left loves Muslims for some reason, despite the fact they're kookier on the whole than America's religious people by a wide margin. We're talking entire countries that oppress women, gays, freedom of speech, etcetera, pretty much the antithesis to social progression.

And once again we see the false dichotomy that plagues the thinking of the the far right. "We think Muslims are evil, and the left doesn't agree with us, therefore liberals love Muslims and think they're perfect!" Any message more nuanced than "Yay Islam wonderful!" or "Boo, Islam bad!" gets distorted into one of those two blurbs. "Yes, there are many problems, and atrocities have been committed in the name of Islam; but not all Muslims are terrorists, and you're oversimplifying the issue and painting with too broad a brush" doesn't fit onto a bumper sticker well, I suppose.

It's both sad and frightening that the left is embroiled in an endless argument with a group of people who by and large LITERALLY CANNOT comprehend what we're trying to say.

I'm reminded of the adage "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail," except in this case, it would have to start with "When all you have is straw."

/which is an oversimplification, of course//it's a very real possibility that one can fall into the trap of do ...

I'm far right now? Neat. Might want to read my profile. I'm areligious, support gay rights, abortion, health care reform, and a bunch of other stuff the right hates.

willyfreddy:He looked at me, blankly, for a few seconds, and then simply stated "I'd wipe them all out.""Who?""The Palestinians.""What do you mean?""Simple. Kill every single Palestinian that's alive. It's the only solution."

Its their "Final Solution" to the "Palestinian Problem". Many Jews seem to have same opinion of Palestinians as Germans had of them during WW II.

The best and only way to beat Israel is not to find toe to toe. Israel will always win in a violent struggle. Economics is the only way to win. Palestinians need to find non-violent leadership. Trading will win the war. Not some bombastic half-arse made mortar out of nearly broken down pickup.

Rather than strapping a bomb to someone's chest and yelling out some silly phrase. Get to work building something (not a missile or mortar launcher). Even if it's a 'pet rock' or metal scrap yard. Get Palestinians back to constructive work and not being paid to work at an airport that doesn't have jets.

Seconded. Silly Jesus is on one of my "favorites" lists. I only have three lists. "average intelligence/badge licker/fundamentalist" "Urban" and "feminist coont" I think i should add "Jew" just to further outrage anyone looking over my shoulder.

Wow. Just... wow. Further back brother. Further back. Show me a cave painting of someone being clubbed to death with a Venus of Willendorf for his lunch money and we'll talk.

Incidentally, you have a funny idea of what constitutes a "charitable view" of something. Never suggested hunting and gathering is a "superior" form of culture or society in any way shape or form. Or did you miss the bit where I described "surviving largely by way of luck"?

Yeah, it kinda sucks, I'd be the fist to admit that. But it was a phase we passed through, and we traded it off for beating up people and claiming that God was our Bro and totally on our side- not yours.

But at least we have a pretty good idea whether we'll make it through the winter. Trade-offs.

nmemkha:willyfreddy: He looked at me, blankly, for a few seconds, and then simply stated "I'd wipe them all out.""Who?""The Palestinians.""What do you mean?""Simple. Kill every single Palestinian that's alive. It's the only solution."

Its their "Final Solution" to the "Palestinian Problem". Many Jews seem to have same opinion of Palestinians as Germans had of them during WW II.

Talk about your Stockholm Syndrome.

Were the Jews actually saying that they should wipeout the Germans prior to the Holocost? The Palestinians were have been saying this for a long time. And it isn't as if the Israeli's haven't been attacked by their neighbors several times in the last 50 years.

Diogenes Teufelsdrockh:Mid_mo_mad_man:So following your reasoning Canada should belong to the Danes since they where the first to settle it?

As a part Native American man, I can say:

[img21.imageshack.us image 333x200]

You're racist.

Taking over a land and killing off all who've been there for thousands of years doesn't exactly put you on the moral high ground when it comes to ethical considerations of whose land it was. Whether that be the case with the native tribes of the Americas or the native Semitic tribes of the middle east. Yet, ethics are never so simple, are they?

Plus, you need to work on your reading comprehension. Offering up and considering an alternative perspective with an explanation of its grounds is not the same as taking a position. Not everyone is as simplistic in their thinking as you.

My point was (which I didn't state clearly) just because the Jews lived there 2000 years ago doesn't give them rights to land that others are living on. They had no more right to kick out the Arabs living there then American Indians kicking out whitey from the USA

bostonguy:Kraftwerk Orange: Russky: NumberFiveIsAlive: I wonder how many people in here will see that the most recent round of violence started with Hamas attacked the IDF. IDF shoots back, Hamas shoots rockets indescriminately.

Israel does their share of stupid shiat, but Hamas ain't the cherub faced baby in this one.

I think most people understand both sides are at fault and nobody is totally in the 'right' here. Now that i said that I'm sure some douche will call me an anti-semite, usually how it goes.

Judaism and Islam are both Semitic religions. So however someone wants to take your comment - blame the Jews, blame the Muslims - either way you're anti-semitic.

Just for the record: "Semitic" refers only to a family of languages and not anything else. The Hebrew and Arabic languages are Semitic. The religions, and anything else, are not. (The term "anti-Semitism" was invented by an anti-Semite to describe his beliefs, and it stuck somehow.)

Ok, so they're both religions of the Semitic people, so I'll use that it as an adjective to refer to their beliefs... "Semitic religion" it is!

globalwarmingpraiser:nmemkha: willyfreddy: He looked at me, blankly, for a few seconds, and then simply stated "I'd wipe them all out.""Who?""The Palestinians.""What do you mean?""Simple. Kill every single Palestinian that's alive. It's the only solution."

Its their "Final Solution" to the "Palestinian Problem". Many Jews seem to have same opinion of Palestinians as Germans had of them during WW II.

Talk about your Stockholm Syndrome.

Were the Jews actually saying that they should wipeout the Germans prior to the Holocost? The Palestinians were have been saying this for a long time. And it isn't as if the Israeli's haven't been attacked by their neighbors several times in the last 50 years.

Yeah ever since Israel started taking their land by force, piece by piece. I'd be pissed too and so would you.

Mid_mo_mad_man:thisisarepeat: I think its in our best interest for these people to keep killing each other, we just need to keep subsidizing which ever side is loosing at the moment so we can maximize casualties on both sides. See also: Syria

Tat'dGreaser:lordjupiter: We send countries money because if we don't, someone else will, and then what? Then it's only a matter of time before one or two countries (Russia and China, most likely) gain a controlling stake in all these teetering countries and we're once again isolated on the Risk board.

thisisarepeat:Mid_mo_mad_man: thisisarepeat: I think its in our best interest for these people to keep killing each other, we just need to keep subsidizing which ever side is loosing at the moment so we can maximize casualties on both sides. See also: Syria

nmemkha:globalwarmingpraiser: nmemkha: willyfreddy: He looked at me, blankly, for a few seconds, and then simply stated "I'd wipe them all out.""Who?""The Palestinians.""What do you mean?""Simple. Kill every single Palestinian that's alive. It's the only solution."

Its their "Final Solution" to the "Palestinian Problem". Many Jews seem to have same opinion of Palestinians as Germans had of them during WW II.

Talk about your Stockholm Syndrome.

Were the Jews actually saying that they should wipeout the Germans prior to the Holocost? The Palestinians were have been saying this for a long time. And it isn't as if the Israeli's haven't been attacked by their neighbors several times in the last 50 years.

Yeah ever since Israel started taking their land by force, piece by piece. I'd be pissed too and so would you.

I am against the settlements, but I understand them taking the land they did after they were attacked.

globalwarmingpraiser:Masquerader317: ciberido: Masquerader317: Why is the press core asking about stupid crap and not this right now? The president is standing there right in front of them, why don't they ask about this?

globalwarmingpraiser: Are you an AP stringer for Reuters?

He's She's probably a Marine stay at home mom of four.

FTFY. 0_o

It is a fark meme oh and the obligatory Tits or GTFO, make me a sammich...etc.

Russky:I think most people understand both sides are at fault and nobody is totally in the 'right' here. Now that i said that I'm sure some douche will call me an anti-semite, usually how it goes.

Kraftwerk Orange:Judaism and Islam are both Semitic religions. So however someone wants to take your comment - blame the Jews, blame the Muslims - either way you're anti-semitic.

Actually, no.

1) Judaism and Islam are both Abrahamic religions (as is Christianity). There is such a thing as a "Semitic religion" but it doesn't mean what you think it means.

2) I realize that the history and etymology of "Semitic" would lead you to think that "antisemitism" could refer to bigotry against Jewish OR other Semitic people, but that is not the case. Allow me to quote Wikipedia:

'' While the term's etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, the term was coined in the late 19th century in Germany as a more scientific-sounding term for Judenhass ("Jew-hatred"), and that has been its normal use since then. ''

globalwarmingpraiser:nmemkha: globalwarmingpraiser: nmemkha: willyfreddy: He looked at me, blankly, for a few seconds, and then simply stated "I'd wipe them all out.""Who?""The Palestinians.""What do you mean?""Simple. Kill every single Palestinian that's alive. It's the only solution."

Its their "Final Solution" to the "Palestinian Problem". Many Jews seem to have same opinion of Palestinians as Germans had of them during WW II.

Talk about your Stockholm Syndrome.

Were the Jews actually saying that they should wipeout the Germans prior to the Holocost? The Palestinians were have been saying this for a long time. And it isn't as if the Israeli's haven't been attacked by their neighbors several times in the last 50 years.

Yeah ever since Israel started taking their land by force, piece by piece. I'd be pissed too and so would you.

I am against the settlements, but I understand them taking the land they did after they were attacked.

So we agree, they have a right to be upset. Given Israel's decades long brutal occupation, violence is expected and arguably justified.

Seconded. Silly Jesus is on one of my "favorites" lists. I only have three lists. "average intelligence/badge licker/fundamentalist" "Urban" and "feminist coont" I think i should add "Jew" just to further outrage anyone looking over my shoulder.

PhoenixInFlames:my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: PhoenixInFlames: Israel started this one. Airstrikes and killing military leaders = not good, and going to end in retaliation.

*sigh* Can we just sever all ties with everyone in the Middle East, Israel included? It's like having a little brother who knows you can kick ass, and insists on starting shiat with their classmates cuz they know you'll defend them.

Wait, what? Hamas launches over 100 rockets/missiles at you over the course of a few days/weeks, but responding with a precision strike that takes out 1 car that happens to contain the person IN CHARGE of launching hundreds of rockets/missiles is "starting this one"

/facepalm

Hamas is ALWAYS launching rockets into Israel. I doubt a month goes by without them flinging some random explosive into Israel.

Israel usually retaliates with a little launching of their own, reacting on-par with the level given to them. Usually.. Sometimes they react a little more aggressively, but typically it's tit-for-tat.

If they thought that taking out a leader in Hamas was going to end well, they were fools.

Funny enough from the standpoint of the history of human society, the point at which religion goes from worshiping feminine nature-based figures to revering male deities is typically shortly after you've seen the move from roaming, hunting and gathering societies that depend a lot on luck to survive (finding food, no ill turns in the weather which push herds away from their typical gathering places, and s on) to agrarian societies that don't move around much and whose survival depends largely on having big stockpiles of stuff.

Stuff you can take by force.

Then it's handy to make God a man 'cause, yanno, war's a man's game and all. All the Abrahamic faiths (including Christianity, Islam, and yes, Judaism)share more or less the same male deity, soooo.... you get this.

willyfreddy:I once took a very long bus ride in South America, and was seated next to a guy from Florida. We talked very pleasantly for a good few hours, about a variety of subjects, and then the topic of Israel and Palestine came up. He would later tell me that he was Jewish, but that hadn't come up in the conversation prior to that point. Anyhow, he asked me for my opinion about the conflict and, considering that I was in the midst of reading a lot about that part of the world, I gave (what I thought to be) a very nuanced answer that probably took about 10 minutes to properly lay out.

He looked at me, blankly, for a few seconds, and then simply stated "I'd wipe them all out.""Who?""The Palestinians.""What do you mean?""Simple. Kill every single Palestinian that's alive. It's the only solution.".

(Elcor mode: sincerely, without sarcasm)Thanks for sharing that with us .(Elcor mode off)

I'm tempted to make a comparison to Cuban exiles living in Florida, but I don't know enough about either group to be sure I wouldn't sound dumb.

Funny enough from the standpoint of the history of human society, the point at which religion goes from worshiping feminine nature-based figures to revering male deities is typically shortly after you've seen the move from roaming, hunting and gathering societies that depend a lot on luck to survive (finding food, no ill turns in the weather which push herds away from their typical gathering places, and s on) to agrarian societies that don't move around much and whose survival depends largely on having big stockpiles of stuff.

Stuff you can take by force.

Then it's handy to make God a man 'cause, yanno, war's a man's game and all. All the Abrahamic faiths (including Christianity, Islam, and yes, Judaism)share more or less the same male deity, soooo.... you get this.

Diogenes Teufelsdrockh:Mid_mo_mad_man:So following your reasoning Canada should belong to the Danes since they where the first to settle it?

As a part Native American man, I can say:

[img21.imageshack.us image 333x200]

You're racist.

Taking over a land and killing off all who've been there for thousands of years doesn't exactly put you on the moral high ground when it comes to ethical considerations of whose land it was. Whether that be the case with the native tribes of the Americas or the native Semitic tribes of the middle east. Yet, ethics are never so simple, are they?

Plus, you need to work on your reading comprehension. Offering up and considering an alternative perspective with an explanation of its grounds is not the same as taking a position. Not everyone is as simplistic in their thinking as you.

How big of a part is it? Is it a little, pretty much employable part or a big, vanilla swilling, dynamite fishing, "no one else can has casino" part?

nmemkha:So we agree, they have a right to be upset. Given Israel's decades long brutal occupation, violence is expected and arguably justified.

So is the retaliation by Israel. It's called a war. If Native American tribes started shooting rockets at US tragets to get back land, we would retaliate accordingly and wouldn't be wrong for doing so.

topcon: I'll say it again: The far left loves Muslims for some kooky reason.

Muslims are perceived by the left to be underdogs. And the left worships underdogs. Regardless of the actual issues. Anything that goes against "the man" is good in their eyes. Automatically.

You would think that in a contest between a tolerant, democratic, free society vs. an intolerant, anti-democratic, not free society, the so-called liberals would support the freer society, not the women stoning, gay hanging barbarians.

But Israel is successful and dominant, which makes them "the establishment" They are thus automatically evil, and the underdog muslims virtuous and wonderful.