‪In case you missed it, the Interweb has been abuzz over one man's passive aggressive goodbye to his wife by laying out, ‬‪in grueling detail‬‪, every time she rejected his amorous advances over the course of weeks weeks. This amateur sexual statistician then emailed said spreadsheet to her while she was en route to the airport for a work trip. Her response? She posted it to ‬‪Reddit‬‪, where it has accumulated some 686 comments and made the national news cycle, including posts at ‬‪Esquire and ELLE.‬

‪Proving to be more than just a flash-in-the-pan blurb, the comments sections on both sites lit up with a cultural clash that found, all reprehensible trolling aside, a divide amongst our readers. Some felt this man in question was "entitled" to a level of sexual service, while others argued, naturally, that marriage did not entitle anyone to anything, excepting perhaps monogamy. Intrigued by the underlying issues, we set ELLE's Justine Harman and ‬‪Esquire‬‪'s James Joiner–two of our only married digital staff members–to discuss:‬

‪JH: Before we dive into the controversy, let's suss out some personal details: You have been married nearly 13 years; I will have been married one year as of next month. You're a guy. I'm a girl.

‪JJ: This is true.‬

‪‪JH: More facts: You were married at 27; I was 28. We were both relatively young. Per the original post, this couple is only 26. However, when I tried to engage my husband on this topic, he wouldn't touch it. He was like Neo in The Matrix.

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‪JJ: Why do you think that is?‬

‪JH: I think maybe it brings up insecurities for anyone who is married. Like, Oh shit, what if my husband or wife did this to me? Or, are we having enough sex?‬

‪JJ: I can see that. It's a tough subject, especially, I think, for a guy. We definitely don't go out to the bar with our friends and say, "Dude, I'm totally not getting any. WTF?"‬

‪JH: Right. Because that would reflect on you—especially as a young person. Do you think it was brave of her to post evidence of her failing relationship to Reddit?‬

‪JJ: I can't tell if it was brave or just a plea for attention. The question remains, too, if it was even ‬‪real‬‪. Though I don't think it matters any more if it is. The more I think about it, the more I think she was trying to play to a wider audience—as opposed to putting it on Facebook. So maybe it was really brave. I think she just comes across as real.‬

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‪JH: I mean, I most definitely have used those excuses before ("I'm too full" or "I feel gross"). I don't care if it's my husband—I want to feel sexy to get sexy. Is that a crime?‬

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‪JJ: Not at all! Hell, I've used some of those excuses.‬

‪JH: [Laughs]‬

‪JJ: Okay, that's not true. BUT, I think it's normal for people to not always be on some newlywed level of constantly synced sexy-time.‬

‪JH: There was this piece in the Sunday ‬‪New York Times‬‪ how anxious everyone is about how much fun everyone else is having. If I lived in a vacuum, I might think my sex life is aces. But then I read this and am like, Okay, noted: three times in seven weeks = divorce.

‪JJ: I mean, don't we always want what we can't have, anyway? A little stop sign can make things better. I can honestly say that dry spells happen. Sometimes for reasons that have nothing to do with you or the relationship: outside stress, money, jobs, and family all factor in.‬

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‪JH: Yeah, but right there is the underlying issue: The idea that men ALWAYS want sex; women are the ones with the stop sign.‬

‪JJ: True.‬

‪JH: There has to be a relationship in which the girl is the one initiating sex and getting turned down. If this was reversed, what would commenters say about the situation? He must be gay? She's a perv?‬

‪JJ: That's an interesting point. I wonder if people would be less surprised about this coming from a woman.‬

‪JH: Now that you say it, though, I can't think of a single time my husband was like, "Not tonight, babe." I think he's more sensitive to how that might make me feel.‬

‪JJ: [Laughs] Well, it's that, and we know to get it while the getting is good. Back to the role reversal: Do we expect women to be more methodical? As a society, I mean.‬

‪JH: Yes. Women are the Type-A list-makers, for sure.‬

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‪JJ: Would this even be news if it was reversed? I don't think it would have the same reach.‬ People wouldn't be as shocked, I don't think. Not to say that that's right, but I do think that culturally that's the case. Shall we delve into the comments? Cause that's where things went haywire, I think. What I'm wondering, is where do people who obviously manage to somewhat successfully navigate society get off espousing the level of sexist, frankly insane, nonsense that are so visible in some of those comments?‬

‪JH: But that's the Internet, right? Here's a comment from ELLE.com: "Go get a cat if all you want is companionship. I think men should start denying woman of their perks. Every time he's denied take away a compliment when it's deserved or a card or that back rub or foot rub. See who makes a spreadsheet then. Or just go find a girl who is into you." So, if I'm to believe that, sex is a male perk; foot massages are a female perk? WHAT THE!?‬

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‪JJ: I actually thought the foot massages were mandatory. Hang on, making a note. (Kidding, obviously.) But it does bring up something interesting: Is sex a part of the social contract?‬

‪JH: Right. At the altar, should it be, like, "I promise to bang you four times a week no matter how sweaty or full I am?"‬

‪JJ: So let me ask you this: As a woman, what is your number one reason for opting out of—for lack of a better phrase—sex? What comes into play?‬

‪JH: There are a lot of elements here. Sometimes we feel silly trying to get it going, I think. Like, "Oh, heyyyyy babe, sex now?"‬

‪JJ: That is true! We have an 11-year-old daughter, so sometimes it's like, "She's outside, let's bang!" and then it devolves into ridiculous laughter.‬

‪JH: But you see all these movies where they've just prepared a lovely meal for two and then they just toss the perfectly-seasoned lamb chops off the table because they have to HAVE TO have each other and I'm like, huh.‬..

‪JJ: But don't we all know life is only like that for the first year or two of a relationship, and then it's back up off my meatloaf? In this case, I think it boils down to communication. Is there a planet where a passive aggressive dossier of denial is going to land you in a woman's pants?‬ No. No, there is not.‬

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‪JH: There's also the fact that your marriage is the one thing you're not allowed to gripe about… especially when you're young. I bet their friends aren't married, you know? Being 26 and in a sexless marriage...like, hide.‬

‪JJ: Yeah, but being 26 and in a marriage with this douchebag? Ugh.‬

‪JH: I want to see a picture of them.‬

‪JJ: ME TOO.‬

‪JH: If he exists! What if we're being Catfish'd?‬

‪JJ: I do think that's a solid possibility, but the topic itself is real—as evidenced by our comment sections. And that's what concerns me…‬

‪JH: I mean, I think no one knows how to define a happy marriage. Sex is a factor, yes, but can it be quantified? Are manners > sex. Is sex > communication?‬

‪JJ: I think, as a marriage semi-vet, that top of the line is communication. But that doesn't exclude the fact that some of these comments apparently come from the year 1488. Why do people really hold such unenlightened views? Where are they being fostered? Are they just trolling?‬

‪JH: I don't know. I mean, based on my husband's The Matrix-style evasion of the topic, perhaps even the most evolved men are of two minds (and heads! huzzah!) on the topic…‬

‪JJ: Drumroll!‬

‪JH: Be honest: If your wife only conceded to sex three times out of six weeks, would you be concerned? We have no idea if they were talking about the "issue," seeing a therapist, if he has E.D., nothing. We have no information other than some very unreliable data points, you know?‬

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‪JJ: That's true. That said, have I experienced a dry spell of such length and intensity? I'd have to say yes, though I lack a sex diary to consult.‬

‪JH: It's a brave thing to admit.‬

‪JJ: Was it alarming? I don't think so. There was probably something extremely stressful happening outside of our relationship that distracted from it. But I can also see it being caused by an underlying issue, which, again, comes back to sitting down and communicating.‬

‪JH: What would happen if there was no Reddit here? Assuming they are a real couple…‬

‪JJ: I think she'd talk to him. "Dude, you're right! I had no idea. Your weird spreadsheet means A) I secretly hate you and didn't realize it or B) I've been so distracted with XYZ that I didn't even realize. Let me give you a BJ and let's never make this mistake again!" But I think homeboy showed his true colors…‬

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‪JH: I think the consensus from both ELLE and Esquire editors is that, if he exists, he's the dickbag. But that she's gonna have to give her next relationship the old college try…‬

‪JJ: Really? You think she should give it another go?‬

‪JH: No. No. Her NEXT relationship!‬

‪JJ: OH! Yes. Whew!‬

‪JH: [Laughs] And then I whipped off my face mask and was, in fact, a wart-nosed troll who posts seething comments on magazine websites!‬ That would have been a real twist.‬

JJ: Ha! You'd be all, "And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling Esquire people!"

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