I'm 30, does that count as young? I'm pessimistic as heck. Not so much regarding the stock market. I think companies will continue to squeeze out profits, make money, and create shareholder value. If not U.S. stocks, then international stocks.

I'm personally digging out of the student debt hole, but a lot of my peers have ever increasing student debt. And if I want to advance or change careers through education, that's going to be difficult due to the tuition.

[Political comments removed by admin LadyGeek]

So I do the only thing I can. Save as much money as possible and grin and bear it.

The problem is the population here in this forum doesn't represent the "Average" American... I have a bunch of friends stuck in debt, stuck in low-paying service/retail jobs, but still living large, partying hard. That mindset is hard to change.

There's no point worrying; there's nothing to be done but spend less than you make and invest the difference. If the market crashes and I lose everything later in life then, well, at least I did what I was supposed to do (maxed retirement accounts, etc) and gave it my best shot. I'm not particularly optimistic about the near future, but I console myself with the thought that over 30 years until I retire it is likely that my investments will have increased in value to one degree or another. There will be wars and recessions and crises etc in the meantime, but I have to just stay the course. What's the alternative?

I'm optimistically hoping that the current generation being born, generation Z (born after 2000) will be the next great American generation. Their parents and grandparents were dealt harsh realities, with credit card debt and expensive college degrees in basket weaving that got them nowhere. I'm hoping the lessons learned from this will be passed down, and the value of the dollar will be relearned. I've already seen some hopeful signs. [Political comments removed by admin LadyGeek]

I do agree with most of the positive outlook perspectives above, but I will add that if you're looking at $100+k in educational debts nowadays, often from nonelite instutitions that don't even come close to guaranteeing decent wage employment afterwards, that's gotta put a damper on things compared to 'back in the day.' Especially when that debt is unforgivable even in bankruptcy, and is still considered 'required' for a lot of better paying jobs.

I think America is going to become a lot more violent in the next couple of years before a drastic change occurs, or more likely, acceptance of a more permanent underclass and slums. I'm hoping to stay just far enough in front to not be a part of it. This is ignoring all the resources that are supposedly running out that nobody cares about or ignores it calling it liberal propaganda (helium for example).

I'm terrified, not so much the stock market, but with the shrinking job market. I heard that something like 1500 ppl apply for each vacancy and you have folks with MBA's working as a Barista at Starbucks.

I think it's all relative for the most part. I do think a significant amount of people are in for a rude awakening concerning lifestyle changes (i.e. those with $20k/yr jobs with brand new vehicles, the latest designer clothes, eating out every night, etc.). For those that live beneath their means and are smart with their money, I think will continue to flourish like those subset of people have always done.

Dibbels81 wrote:I'm optimistically hoping that the current generation being born, generation Z (born after 2000) will be the next great American generation. Their parents and grandparents were dealt harsh realities, with credit card debt and expensive college degrees in basket weaving that got them nowhere. I'm hoping the lessons learned from this will be passed down, and the value of the dollar will be relearned. I've already seen some hopeful signs. [Political comments removed by admin LadyGeek]

I'm going to sound like a grumpy old lady but....this new generation is getting iphones and ipads at the age of 10. I don't think it will be any better.

CordMcNally wrote:I think it's all relative for the most part. I do think a significant amount of people are in for a rude awakening concerning lifestyle changes (i.e. those with $20k/yr jobs with brand new vehicles, the latest designer clothes, eating out every night, etc.). For those that live beneath their means and are smart with their money, I think will continue to flourish like those subset of people have always done.

Sounds like a lot of my friends then they complain why they don't have any money and call me cheap.

I am 21. The crisis taught me the importance of diversification beyond equities. I am glad I learned this lesson before my wealth reached a serious level.

I have no projections about how future, and so I am positioned accordingly with a relatively neutral portfolio comprised of stocks, bonds, gold, and bills. I appreciate the balance especially because we never truly know how long our time horizon really is, and sometimes we cannot afford to "ride out the storm."

CordMcNally wrote:I think it's all relative for the most part. I do think a significant amount of people are in for a rude awakening concerning lifestyle changes (i.e. those with $20k/yr jobs with brand new vehicles, the latest designer clothes, eating out every night, etc.). For those that live beneath their means and are smart with their money, I think will continue to flourish like those subset of people have always done.

I agree.

I am 30 as well and I moved to the US from a developing country (see my profile name for a hint) in my early 20s. I am absolutely amazed by how people in their 20s and 30s in this country take things that are considered as luxury items in developing world and even in some parts of Europe as granted. I also don't understand the "I work hard and I deserve it" mentality of majority of not hard working people. It might sound harsh, but you really shouldn't have high expectations from this generation in general.

I think the gap between poor and rich will only get bigger in the coming decades and no, that is not a good thing.

There is no greatness where there is no simplicity, goodness and truth. -L. Tolstoy

Well, I'm concerned about the demographics of the country - i.e. shrinking birth rates among my generation and the huge debt and bills coming due with the baby boomer retirements.

[Political comments removed by admin LadyGeek] I'm less concerned about social issues.

I get concerned that the use of technology is hampering personal relationship skills among younger people. I'm 34 and can't have a conversation with people younger than me because they are constantly texting and checking phones.

Still, the USA is the greatest country on earth and I'm blessed to be among the most fortunate humans on the planet and I'll do my part to keep it that way for my children.

tj wrote:I'm terrified, not so much the stock market, but with the shrinking job market. I heard that something like 1500 ppl apply for each vacancy and you have folks with MBA's working as a Barista at Starbucks.

I have thought a lot about this recently. In the US, it is a huge taboo for people to take on "regular" jobs.

When I traveled to Europe, I noticed that highly educated people worked normal jobs, that would be looked down on in the US (wine retail, metro workers, construction, restaurants, etc.) They worked jobs they really loved, and to a really high standard. I walked into a wine shop in Spain, and the clerk there had been to every vineyard that they got their wine from! She could write a book on each bottle.

I never really understood this about my own country. I work a full time desk-job, but to me it is boring. I also work a retail part-time job because I find it more fulfilling, but feel the social taboo. Maybe if we had more MBA's making coffee, it would taste better than the burnt cr*p I'm always having.... maybe our generation can help fix this problem.

I think the real problem is that education expense are out of hand.

Last edited by Kevin21 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well, I'm in my early 30s and don't worry about investing and markets so much.

What I am worried about is job insecurity. I watched my parents hit their 50s (both in the IT sector) and saw their careers fall apart. My mother
is still employed in IT but my father lost his job & couldn't find another one. And then the recession hit.

Their experience has made me very frugal. By the time I'm in my 50s I hope working will be an option rather than a necessity.

I see a few posts talking about how this is a great time to be investing, but using the experience of investing during the 2008-09 downturn as an example of these great times. That time has past - much more interesting to look at this from the perspective of someone who is starting to invest today with historically (nominal) high stock and bond prices.

I'm 33. A stock and bond market propped up by unprecedented fed actions is worrisome. But it has been mentioned before in this thread that we tend to believe that the current hour is always an hour of crisis. My concern isn't lack of future innovation, or lack of population to consume products, it is instead what the heck is going to happen in the aftermath of these massive bond buying programs.

rdmayo21 wrote:As it is said for smart investors, they all pray for a bear market at the beginning of their investing career.

This was the case for me. I'm 35 now but only been in the workforce for 5.5 years (medical school and residency prior to that). I was just getting my retirement account started at the end of 2007. For the first year or two I watched my 401K contributions vanish by the time my next paycheck rolled around. I wouldn't say I got overly discouraged. At the time I had never had any kind of savings or investments at all. Had never seen the good days or bad. So I just kept plugging along and the markets have been on an impressive run since we hit the bottom.

I managed to buy our townhome when the housing market was collapsing, and got a good deal on it and a very competitive interest rate. I have refinanced once since then and at this point my mortgage is actually cheaper than my last apartment when you subtract out the tax writeoffs, and I have a two car garage and almost 2x the square footage of my last apartment.

Several of my neighbors, whose townhomes are almost identical to mine, bought at the peak of the housing market and still today would lose money if they were to sell. I could sell tomorrow and turn a profit, even after realtor's commissions.

In many ways I consider myself very fortunate for entering the workforce when I did.

Browser wrote:I'm retired and am living off my nestegg now. As I look back at my journey and see all the twists and turns it took, I have to say that (except for the being old part) I'm grateful I'm not starting out in these days of financial and economic troubles. Is that just because I'm old, or do things look sorta dismal to you young investors as well? I remember being fairly optimistic and not worrying too much about building a nestegg and retiring comfortably when I was starting out. How do things look to you younger investors these days?

Thinks look good to me.

I'm saving a lot of money (currently just shy of $400k net worth at age 31, with an 80/20% allocation) and housing prices are pretty reasonable in my area and I'm considering buying my own house. My income has reached the point where I have to do the Backdoor Roth IRA instead of the regular Roth IRA for 2013

I've minimized my taxes by TLH-ing at just the right moments in 2011 and 2012 and maxing out my 401k, Roth IRA, and HSA (none of which older employees had when they were young) and placing my assets strategically.

I've gotten my net expense ratio down to 0.11% (thanks, Vanguard, and thanks, Fidelity, for trying to compete on costs with Vanguard), which is far better than anyone could have gotten in the "bad old days," and I inherited Vanguard Flagship status (thanks, Pop!) so I don't even pay fees for TurboTax or to sell my maxed-out discounted employee stock shares.

From a selfish, investment-focused point of view, I'm not sure that macroeconomic financial and economic troubles worry me. As Warren Buffett and/or Baron Rothschild once said, "The time to buy is when blood is running in the streets."

To much money in the market chasing to few returns made everything a race for the bottom it seems. There just is not enough reliable safe investments that will beat inflation let alone earn 2-4% for the baby boomers. But they have the bulk cash so they have access to stuff my generation does not. .

Individually I am doing extremely well, by government statistics top 0.1% of my age range for income/net worth but I do not like the outlook for those near me in terms of jobs or getting out of school debt fast enough to really start investing beyond the usual 401K. I grew up really poor and really started investing right after the last bubble so I got lucky.

As a 25 year old college graduate with little debt in his 2nd year of employment, I'm feeling optimistic about the future for young investors. However, I think that the majority of my peers aren't young investors. They're just trying to get by and make ends meet.

Like others, I think stocks and bonds are at questionable valuations but will provide acceptable returns for low-cost investors.

Of course our most important investment is in our own career. It is very hard to make the right choices in seeking an education and developing a career. Education is too expensive given that the rate of technological change makes degrees quickly obsolete. Further, there seems to be a large supply of college graduates competing for few jobs. The tech sector employs few, while enabling outsourcing and layoffs for all. Company training has disappeared as the internet has enabled ultra-specific hiring requirements, meaning career advancement has changed. Lots of people now need to change jobs every 1-5 years. You can't just get into a good company and "work your way up", enjoying the stability (health insurance) and investments (house, stocks, bonds) that come with it - when your company and job is on the precipice, you're driven to short-term decisions (apartment, savings accounts).

The corporatocracy seems to be providing less benefit to shareholders and employees.

Started at 21 with Lending Club and Betterment, I'm 23 now, my ROI has been ~6% for the last two years.

I'm withdrawing all my money from my 100% stock allocation in Betterment. I was going to put it in US Index w Vanguard, but we're at all-time peaks so I'm reconsidering...

I am pessimistic of the future. I feel this way because of the experience I had at a top Engineering school. College is a joke. STEM classes are the bane of most students who care more about their social lives at this age, and most of the soft classes don't teach you anything beyond some interesting wiki-facts for an extremely high premium.

I have no faith in the education system, and I am also worried about the power of Labor. Capital/Capitalists have lots of power during high unemployment, which is in part because too many people are getting educated in foolishness that doesn't teach them useful skills (psych, business, sociology, anthro, communications, etc. x 100).

American infrastructure is also abysmal as far as roads, rail, electricity, and power. The US's saving grace is really its agriculture and its military. They do not have a monopoly on Innovation anymore. My generation is facing skill depreciation while being gutted by debt. The biggest issue is American culture not valuing education and personal responsibility.

I teach English in Korea. This has always been and is still a low-status, low-qualification job. But I banked $12k this year, and that's better than almost all of my friends back home, including the ones working two jobs. And then we have this Euro crisis and Chinese real estate bubble tomfoolery going on. There be icebergs ahead.

Two more new things that are impacting the Millenials negatively: 1. Media is more pervasive and distracting than ever before. It's no secret that we have the highest rates of ADD / ADHD ever seen. How can educators possibly expect to compete with new HD gaming/media? Teaching techniques are stagnant. In the past decade we went from chalkboards to whiteboards, and sometimes clunky smartboards. Whoopdy-do.

2. Tech development in robotics and computing is accelerating faster than ever. In the short-run, power is tilting to capitalists. Wherever the displaced workers run off to, they'll need to educated somehow, and I doubt it'll be at the form of educational institutions we currently have.

The good:
Low-interest mortgage- I've got 3.5% 30 fixed and I was lucky enough to be in a positioned to move while the housing market was/is still depressed (who knows where it will be in a few years). My parents took their first loan in 1982 at 11%. In 30 years, I'll look back and say "that was a smart move."

I started investing with my first "real" job in summer of 2009. Had nice positive returns for a couple years that allowed me to buy my house. I was damn lucky the timing worked out because equities were not the right place for a house fund-though, I wasn't expecting to buy a house with that money. Really, just it was just dumb luck.

The student loans are almost gone. We had the good sense to pay-off the vast majority (~93%) before buying the house. A lot my former classmates are in far worse with student debt (and an alarming number of them were approved for their mortgages anyways ).

The bad:
The job market. It blows, especially in my sector of government/academia. I don't see it getting better in the short term. However, the baby boomers are retiring, opening up high end jobs and will probably drive the medical sectors --> more research dollars for academia. Over the long-term, I think the job market will turn out just fine, though process is painfully slow now and turn over is slow/jobs aren't being re-filled when people leave.

Pensions are in trouble. For 2 decades, my employer required no contribution to the pension. Now employees have a mandatory match of 3%. My DW's work upped employee (volunteer) contribution from 4% to 7% , her department is near bankruptcy, and has a skeletal crew. We are planning on receiving half the promised benefits. Anyways, declining pensions will require different finical skills than previous generations. Thanks to BH, I feel we're ahead of the curve.

Hub wrote:Interesting that you include business as "getting educated in foolishness that doesn't teach useful skills" while lamenting power "tilting to the capitalists."

Our business courses were not challenging in the least. My friends would show up to tests still drunk and they ended up with 3.4s. More time and effort was spent playing dress-up Ken and Barbie than learning about entrepreneurship or how to conduct market research.

American In Korea wrote:
Our business courses were not challenging in the least. My friends would show up to tests still drunk and they ended up with 3.4s. More time and effort was spent playing dress-up Ken and Barbie than learning about entrepreneurship or how to conduct market research.

Go take econometrics or advanced microeconomics. Try accounting. The CPA exam is harder than the bar.

Marketing and entrepreneurship might be easier, but they don't qualify people for jobs outside of commission sales. Some people work hard, others don't; some party, others don't. It doesn't matter what other people do. And what people do in college is not a relevant basis for any critique of capitalism. Even I must admit that social skills are useful, and I should have worked on mine more.

American In Korea wrote:How can educators possibly expect to compete with new HD gaming/media? Teaching techniques are stagnant. In the past decade we went from chalkboards to whiteboards, and sometimes clunky smartboards. Whoopdy-do.

I do agree with you here. Educators need to modernize their techniques. It used to be a teacher made a lesson plan early in their career and repeated each year until the pension kicked in. Now, too bad, they need to start keeping up with the times. I hear too much whining about ADD, and too much blaming kids for their own lack of education. Teachers and schools are entrusted with the job of educating kids and it's their failure on display.

There are new tools available, like web videos, apps, and electronic testing that should be revolutionizing education. The computer is the most dynamic and important educational tool ever invented, and it's treated like a distraction. Get with it. Use the information we have about attention span, memory, and learning styles and change the program, completely.

Eg, it's known people have a 15 minute attention span, and learn visually and experientially, yet we base our education system on hour long lectures. Stupid.

American In Korea wrote:
Two more new things that are impacting the Millenials negatively: 1. Media is more pervasive and distracting than ever before. It's no secret that we have the highest rates of ADD / ADHD ever seen. How can educators possibly expect to compete with new HD gaming/media? Teaching techniques are stagnant. In the past decade we went from chalkboards to whiteboards, and sometimes clunky smartboards. Whoopdy-do.

2. Tech development in robotics and computing is accelerating faster than ever. In the short-run, power is tilting to capitalists. Wherever the displaced workers run off to, they'll need to educated somehow, and I doubt it'll be at the form of educational institutions we currently have.

Your statements show complete ignorance about current developments in education. Higher education is undergoing the fastest and most radical changes in half a millennium, led by US institutions. College for most kids entering elementary school now will look nothing like today, for better or worse.

I often hear a lot of people from the older generations talk about how younger generations are too entitled, too lazy, etc. I think it is human nature to be nostalgic about one's own time and this is often goes hand in hand with thinking younger people just aren't as well rounded as older generations. I think this is a serious misfortune. Just remember, the country and world right now were shaped by the older generations. See a problem or something you don't like? Guess what, it's not the twenty-something's fault. So as far as optimism for young generations, I think it's there. The creativeness and tech skills that younger generations, of which I belong, are astounding. No one I work with over thirty knows more about technology than I do other than people in IT. There are a lot of computer skills that I consider basic which a lot of my superiors don't have.

Now, being a young investor (24) I have a lot of optimism. We weathered this recent Great Recession and things are starting to turnaround. No one saw the Internet coming but it changed the world. I see no reason why there can't be another world changing technology around the corner. Google Glass is coming out this year. Driverless cars are coming soon. Graphene batteries have amazing potential. I could go on but I think you get my point.

American In Korea wrote:
Two more new things that are impacting the Millenials negatively: 1. Media is more pervasive and distracting than ever before. It's no secret that we have the highest rates of ADD / ADHD ever seen. How can educators possibly expect to compete with new HD gaming/media? Teaching techniques are stagnant. In the past decade we went from chalkboards to whiteboards, and sometimes clunky smartboards. Whoopdy-do.

2. Tech development in robotics and computing is accelerating faster than ever. In the short-run, power is tilting to capitalists. Wherever the displaced workers run off to, they'll need to educated somehow, and I doubt it'll be at the form of educational institutions we currently have.

Your statements show complete ignorance about current developments in education. Higher education is undergoing the fastest and most radical changes in half a millennium, led by US institutions. College for most kids entering elementary school now will look nothing like today, for better or worse.

I agree. Education is changing rapidly and for the better. I graduated high school in 2006 and the techniques they are teaching in elementary I have never even heard of. The way they learned math is completely different from the way I learned. And they read a lot more than I ever had to.

The Universities in America are among the best in the world so I don't think this point needs addressed.

JCom wrote:I often hear a lot of people from the older generations talk about how younger generations are too entitled, too lazy, etc. I think it is human nature to be nostalgic about one's own time and this is often goes hand in hand with thinking younger people just aren't as well rounded as older generations. I think this is a serious misfortune. Just remember, the country and world right now were shaped by the older generations. See a problem or something you don't like? Guess what, it's not the twenty-something's fault. So as far as optimism for young generations, I think it's there. The creativeness and tech skills that younger generations, of which I belong, are astounding. No one I work with over thirty knows more about technology than I do other than people in IT. There are a lot of computer skills that I consider basic which a lot of my superiors don't have.

Now, being a young investor (24) I have a lot of optimism. We weathered this recent Great Recession and things are starting to turnaround. No one saw the Internet coming but it changed the world. I see no reason why there can't be another world changing technology around the corner. Google Glass is coming out this year. Driverless cars are coming soon. Graphene batteries have amazing potential. I could go on but I think you get my point.

Agree 100%. Every young generation is looked at this way and the older generation doesn't seem to notice the irony. It happened to them.

We are witnessing a change, in my opinion, comparable to the industrial revolution thanks to the internet. It has changed EVERYTHING and the world has to normalize a bit. What once worked will be gone in just a few years. In 10 years everything will be fine and balanced. Jobs, stock markets, housing, etc.

JCom wrote:Now, being a young investor (24) I have a lot of optimism. We weathered this recent Great Recession and things are starting to turnaround. No one saw the Internet coming but it changed the world. I see no reason why there can't be another world changing technology around the corner. Google Glass is coming out this year. Driverless cars are coming soon. Graphene batteries have amazing potential. I could go on but I think you get my point.

JCom wrote:
We are witnessing a change, in my opinion, comparable to the industrial revolution thanks to the internet. It has changed EVERYTHING and the world has to normalize a bit. What once worked will be gone in just a few years. In 10 years everything will be fine and balanced. Jobs, stock markets, housing, etc.

You're assuming in 10 years things will stop changing, when in reality they are changing faster and faster.