guys lately im starting to think we all overtrain the fuck out of ourselves. ive been feeling extremely lethargic and remaining sore for quite some time after my workouts, despite being on gear and eating high protien/high calories and only training every other day with very little volume, not going to failue. but the thing is im making better progress than normal. my muscles are responding very nicely to the extra rest. in the past 2 weeks i think ive worked out 4 times. albeit, my form is much better than it ever has been, going extremely slow on the negative portion of all my lifts, keeping form extremely tight, no momentum or ancillary muscles coming into play during the concentric phase but going hard and strong.

i think , at leats personally, less is more, so long as what is done is done correctly.

I have switched to training 3 days a week in the last 4 months of last year and loved it. Went back to four days at the beginning of the year, but switched back to three after several weeks when I noticed that the extra day really didn't benefit me in any way.

I think sometimes people mistake a lack of progress for overtraining though. Especially at the intermediate level, people who made the beginner gains and now have to have a plan instead of just getting into the gym and lifting whatever they feel like that day.

i'm currently focused on dropping weight so i'm on the elliptical at least 1.5hrs per day... usually over 2hrs/day

i still lift in a similar fashion but i only lift for 35-40 minutes, high intensity, heavy weight... except for legs... due to the cardio requirements i am only doing bodyweight movements (very high reps) and I stretch everything, every night...

Some might even consider this too much, but I've found that doing low sets of intense (not necessarily to failure, there's a difference) compound movements works best for me. back in the day i used to do 4 sets of 4 different movements for each body part. Great workouts if you're on gear, but for a natty like me, just keep it basic.

still think this is the best split, plenty of time to recover and just do the basic barbell exercises maybe with a few machine exercises thrown in if needed. not need to complicate things and i stay away from failure, too hard on the nervous system if you go failure all the time.

still think this is the best split, plenty of time to recover and just do the basic barbell exercises maybe with a few machine exercises thrown in if needed. not need to complicate things and i stay away from failure, too hard on the nervous system if you go failure all the time.

Take this for what's it's worth; I had done the push-pull thing for quite a while. Will do Push on Monday, Legs on Wed and Pull on Friday. Which allows three rest days between the upper body Push-Pull workouts during the week. Along with the normal two day rest on the weekends. As we all know, rest is one of the key building blocks in progressive training. Good Luck.

i strongly agree with doing all your pushing agree muscles in one workout. I think it was GH15 who said something about shoulders growing very little naturally without hormones so it seems pointless to give them a seperate day. I normally just do some side lateral raises strictly and then some presses behind the neck and thats it. I think the chest workouts generally hit shoulders pretty hard so no point in adding loads of exercises.

i strongly agree with doing all your pushing agree muscles in one workout. I think it was GH15 who said something about shoulders growing very little naturally without hormones so it seems pointless to give them a seperate day. I normally just do some side lateral raises strictly and then some presses behind the neck and thats it. I think the chest workouts generally hit shoulders pretty hard so no point in adding loads of exercises.

he's right though, have you ever seen a natural who had any great shoulder development? the best you can hope for is a wide bone structure but eventhen you won't get that 3d look. seems pointless investing so much time in shoulders.

he's right though, have you ever seen a natural who had any great shoulder development? the best you can hope for is a wide bone structure but eventhen you won't get that 3d look. seems pointless investing so much time in shoulders.

Thats bullshit, naturals can build shoulders just like any other bodypart.

I thought that my shoulders got stuck growthwise couple of years ago then I started doing standing barbell presses. And as I got stronger on them my shoulders got bigger.

And the 3D look, most people have no idea how to hit their rear delts properly.

Way too many people on here lately have been on this drug bullshit, all of a sudden anyone that posts a pic with any kind of muscle tone is automatically assumed to have been running at least as gram a week.

It used to be real simple, you wanna compete and see how far you can go, then you're gonna have to turn to chemicals. If not, just train hard and enjoy your life. Now any dickhead going on a vacation wants to know how much gh he should run.

The qualities of GH15's statement may be highly questioned. Both his drug and exercise theories, holding little value or credit to either. Creative posting at it's worse. Making up stuff will always be proven wrong in the end.

Want delts, than military press, push presses, one arm DB press, Press Behind the Neck, Hi-pulls, etc. Even DB lateral swings have their place. Chemical engineering need not be applied with any of these mass producing exercises, they stand alone by themselves..

Rear delts: reverse pec deck (elbows in line with the shoulders), BB/DB row (elbows out wide and in line with the shoulders, pulling the bar to the upper chest) , one arm reverse raises and even chins/pullups affect the rear delts. Most pulling type movements call upon the posterior delts. Good Luck.

I've been training every day now for over a month and it works fine. Only thing I'm feeling is my right shoulder -> weightlifter's syndrome... cartilage and my back, ass and hams feel sore.My body improved a bit and the lethargy is mainly in your head.A week is like...

NormalLightNormal+Light+Normal++Light++Normal+++......ambulance

where '+' equals !mini! weight increase - using single workout of squats, press, chins and post ab and lower back work.