While the incident of Feng Jianmei and her murdered child is gruesome and disgusting, the population problem is far too complicated to be reduced to that one incident...

We are 7 billion+ people on this planet which is probably ten times more than our optimum level (based on our current technological levels). As a result, our air quality levels have plunged in the past 100 years and our forests and wildlife are being wiped out.

We are also rapidly automating; the human effort needed to produce a given level of output has been falling dramatically.

Given these factors, the Chinese policy (though sometimes gruesome and disgusting) still makes sense.

Developing countries that do not control population end up with huge masses of hungry people
-Like China until the 80s)
-Nigeria having a projected population of half a billion by 2050.
-India growing by another 300 million (the size of the US population) by 2050 (and these are the poorest sections of Indian society).

Want to see a failed birth control policy? Go to any Indian city and see the tens of thousands of dirty, emaciated children scavenging through garbage and begging at traffic lights.

"Developing countries that do not control population end up with huge masses of hungry people"

You're failing to see the economic consequences of forcing a lower-than-replacement birth rate. The one-child policy was designed to boost productivity in the short-term. I doubt you'll be lauding the benefits of this population control measure when there are 2+ retirees for every worker in China.

If it weren't for this plan it has been estimated four hundred million folks could have been born. And with the equal prosperity us seven billion folks already here enjoy, an equal freedom to travel and with a pristine earth with enough farmland and clean water, the question is why don't we add more and more and more people to the mix??

Living in China. I am the only child in my family, it may makes me fell lonely because I don't have any brothers or sisters. When I grow up, I realize One Child Policy does change China a lot. China has the largest population in the world, but only 70M people were born in the past 10 years. On the other hand, India's population is increasing rapidly. No one can believe how China is crowded. One Child Policy damaged some people's dreams, but it helps China avoid high crime rate, increase social welfare in a short time.
It is unfair to judge a country's policy just because of HUMAN RIGHT!!

Shame on you! Don't you think foetus is a life too? Would it be reasonably to have you been killed to make china less crowded?! China has so many people and there are surely lots of wise person by whom some better solution could have surely been made.

People who think they are full of love and wisdom, such as you, are always trying to avoid the realistic problems in developing countries, high price of living, low social benefits, unbalanced social structure. These things are all connected population. I am sure you are happy to see a weak China with immense population just like today's chaotic India.

Living in China, I saw the one-child policy encourage the crime rate. The citizens won't stop the crime they saw for they can't afford to risk as the only one child of their famliy. The ageing population structure also decrease social welfare in a long time.
In a short time, it can help save the cost. But I think you should have heard a Chinese proverb that we can not drink poison for thirst quencher.

"Embryos is not life"...
Really? What is it then? We beg you for enlightenment.
Although you do not recall, you went through that "unliving" stage before posting on the internet (arguably an unfortunate accident in the natural course of life).
It is not a matter of religion. Merely scientific obvious facts.
Now, whether one considers it a murder to kill an embryo - or worse, a foetus - is indeed a matter of belief, or more certainly, a matter of intellectual honesty.
Always easier to deny inconvenient truths, isn't?

Human rights also means you do not endanger the human rights of existing people. If you pay the fine for extra child, then everything is ok. If you do not, it's crime already, because the extra child cost the living conditions of the existing ones. You know how many people are there in one city in China? There is simply not enough resource for extra child in cities.
PL123 is right. Whether embryos are lives or not depends on religions. And Chinese believe they are not.
That's why you only see forced abortion, not killing of existing extra child.

hey, i got a idea. we are supposed to live our life with enough resources at the price of killing our sisters or brothers when they are a fetus.
hey, we enjoy it anyhow. and when we grow old, we also has to fight till the last breath of our lives. Since not enough young to support the social retirement account.

Those living people are always been the heros, those dead are always the necessary sacrifice of our living beeing.

The Pope and the Vatican had been sued on many occasions with regards to the Catholic Church's irrational stand on family planning, specifically the restrictions on the use of condoms by their adherents under threat of excommunications.

Excommunicating a good practicing Catholic for using artificial birth control is 'medieval' in these days and age, I'd say. It can be psycologically scarring for a lot of well-intentioned believers who merely want to do the responsible thing. For some victims of church excommunications, the resulting trauma may be worse than that of an abortion.

Perhaps the word 'monster' should instead be applied to these 'men in drags' who are brutal enforcers of mind control!! Frankly, I think the church does this as a desperate act to keep flock numbers up. They are swimming against the tide!

The fact that most Chinese people do not understand that forced one-child policy is one of the most egregious human rights violation tells me something about the present Chinese personality. Very depressing that the largest nation on earth has so supine a population.

This China is no longer the China of Confucius/Buddha/Shinto/Tao .. This Modern China has simply erased it's great history, culture and all that was so precious. Now China exists only in name.

Something you misunderstood Confucius ideology. He is NOT a piece of square wood which cannot be changed. Confucius changed things according to the person, situation. When Confucius still alive, I am sure he will use some kind of policy to control population.

My little drug dealer, Confucius would not support the one child policy. Why? It undermines parental authority alot. Do you see how spoiled only children are in China. One look at that, Confucius would be outraged. Parents in China spoil their child, because they know its going to be their only child. In Taiwan / Singapore its less likely, because if the kid is stupid of bad character, the parents would think "The kid is hopeless", lets have another shot. Parents are pursuing a rational strategy.

No Mist is right, you don't have to know Confucius well to know he would be opposed.

I said Confucius was not a piece of wood. He does things according to different people and situation. When population grow so much like today, he will do something. I don't know he will/will-not support one-child-policy, but something he will definately do.

Confucius' bias to "Male" dominate society, that is why people in China kill daughter for a son. When China CPC promote daughter (give incentive, social status, fair education) etc, things will improve a lot already.

It is Confucius to be blamed. He is old-fashioned monster which haunted China for centuries. He is the one to produce Palace ceremony, family relationship, social relationship etc. And people nowaday think he is good. He is a NON-sense in modern day !!

PL123 typifies the rot among Chinese citizens which I was talking about though I was hesitant to use the word 'rot'. It is a great tragedy that China is actively trying to destroy it's own culture and producing the kind of rootless/cultureless/indecent citizenry which was previously the hallmark of Islam-conquered territories like saharan Africa and Pakistan.

Sure, there will be umpteen number of things wrong with Confucian (or traditional chinese) values but insulting Confucius for all that is extremely distasteful. Modern European values trace themselves to Greek/Roman values but only after discarding/reforming the bad things like slavery. Alas, China which taught so many things to the world is not willing to learn from others. An year back, I saw a documentary that Chinese state has a propaganda which says that Chinese are descendants of Homo Erectus, not Homo Sapiens ... all this in the face of each and every evidence. I was not very convinced of this state position but after reading the rants of PL123, I have to say that the propaganda (which will have many other nefarious dimensions) has begun to poison minds.

This post from Business Insider ( http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-chinese-kleptrocracy-works-2012-6 )argues that one child policy coupled with lack of welfare forces people to save more for when they're old. The finances are regulated, people end up somewhat forced to save on bank deposits that pays less than inflation, this offers cheap money for the state owned enterprises that then finances its kleptocracy. (lousy summary, check the article for the whole idea)

Seems to make sense, though I don't know enough of China and Economy to be sure.

Here in the US, if you are poor, it makes sense to have as many children as possible since the government pays for their upkeep.
We thus see welfare mothers with half a dozen kids (from different fathers) and Mormons with a dozen kids (and sometimes multiple wives) all supported by our benevolent government.
What happens when only the poorest and least-educated breed?

"For the nation, in 2006, 10 years after passage of the Act, the birth rate for women 15 to 50 years old receiving public assistance income in the last 12 months was 155 births per 1,000 women, about three times the rate for women not receiving public assistance (53 births per 1,000 women)"

Many of the welfare babies are also anchor babies from illiterate illegal immigrants. Coupled that with 70% of black children born out of wedlock, and we have a looming crisis in America. Demographers love to crow about America's relatively high rate of birth (2.3 per woman) compared to Europe, however, they do not take the quality of the population into account. If you look at school statistics, schools that have a large number of children on free lunch program tend to perform poorly. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Watch the movie "Idiocracy", that's America's future.

This is your second hallucination when reading my posts (or your reading skills need drastic improvement)... in the first instance you thought I mentioned the need to kill 90% of the population. And now you seem to think that I found China to be a 'better place to live' than the US

I think the one child policy should have been abandoned 10 years ago. China should encourage people to move into Siberia, Burma, Laos, Cambodia (some already are) and Africa. Chinese will bring development to those regions. An Indonesian official said "We need more Chinese people in Indonesia, so we can be just like Malaysia !!"

Chinese culture is very much based on large families. So the whole one child policy goes against this aspect of Chinese culture. Here is an interesting article of three generations of a Chinese American family living in one building in NYC.

Someone said Chinese people are practical. A practical Chinese person of modest means would pick a person with a larger family than an only child. Why extended families bring connections, protection, social assistance in bad times etc.

To those CPC henchmen who are going to bash for being romantic and unpractical. Its easy, please see point one, go abroad. The anglo-saxons, frenchies and Spanish colonized the Americas. They were very nice. But the Germans sent a lot of people to the New World. I don't see China doing anything any different in places like Africa, that the Germans did in the New World.

There is alot of lebensraum in Burma, Siberia and Africa. The offspring of those Chinese migrants will rise to become important people. Look at Sir Julius Chan or Jean Ping. Had they been born in China, they would never have bad it that far.

This is so offensive i can barely hold myself together to write a response. China should send people to Africa to bring development? Africa has too much lebensraum so the Chinses should just come and take it?

I might sound offensive. But let's be frank. Germans make up second largest group of immigrants in North America after the people from the British Isle. I know the word lebensraum has negative connotations, but it predates Hitler, and refers to living space. I am not the one who has thought of this batty idea about Africa, here is one that is more batty

There are already plenty of Chinese willing to push the frontiers and colonize Africa (where they can have as many children as they want), Right now until China has developed sufficient resource capacity having a larger population will not help, they are already strained with allocating resources with their current population and economic capacity. Until they develop further resource capacity in Africa and their other colonies the one child policy must stay.

Actually I really admire German Culture, I think their culture as far as pragmatism, hard work is very similar to Chinese culture, its as shame they were never able to expand beyond Europe.
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Don't think its possible now because Germans and Westerners in General don't have the Frontiermanship mentality, while the Chinese still do and are more than willing to brave the dangers in Africa to make their fortunes and build their future.

Its already happening already. Africa's population right now is 1 Billion people, its going to increase to 2 billion in 40 years time. I think it can support that many people easily. Chinese have the expertise to make Africa self sufficient in food. 50-100 Million. Chinese is not a lot. 3-4% of Canada's population is Chinese, 3-4% of Indonesia's population is Chinese. Right now, there are about 1-2 Million Chinese in Africa. I don't think its fair that Germans (who settled most of the Americas peacefully) can do it, while China can't do the same in Africa. 17% of people in the US of A have German heritage, 50 Million. We are talking about sending 60-70 Million Chinese in Africa over their next 30-40 years, another 40-50 Million in places like Cambodia, Laos, Burma, Latin America. They won't run out the natives,

Germans did expand into North America and South America, but they did so peacefully for hundreds of years, without an colonies. There is no need for military or direct colonization. Look at Brazil and Argentina.

5-10% of Brazilian population is of German descent
5-10% of Argentine population is of German descent

ITs not such a stupid idea. African countries along with China can setup up body to encourage the right type of Chinese immigrants (rice farmers for West Africa), and Wheat farmers for places like Sudan / Ethiopia. They can trade settlement rights for irrigation projects etc.

The west has been fixated on internal engines of growth instead of growth outwards, while China has focused on Colonzing Africa and Space (The West is like Imperial China of the past that thought it was the center of the world and looked inward and thus stagnated, while China today is like the West of the past looking outward for growth)
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Countries and Civlizations that are internal looking will always fail, If China is able to decouple with its colonies in Africa and win the Space Race there will be no limit to its growth, and the west will be but a footnote in human history.

Our stupid Kaisers were forbitten people moving. China is the best why people want to move. They discouraged people to search for fortune elsewhere other than just inside China. Even CPC has this policy not to recognize oversea Chinese as Chinese people. See riots in Indonesia against Chinese people. (CPC said No words.) But oversea Chinese think that their roots are in China, they still keep their chinese education and culture.

"Outward migrant" never heard of in Chinese dynasty except during war and natural disaster that people has to move.

CPC did not encourage people to move to Africa either. They go by themselves because the living situation in China is uncertain, job, food, education...Leaving is the only way out and the time is just right now---globalization.

I read a reportage of a Chinese farmer raising chicken in one African country. His starting capital was just 5,000US$ and now he is quite well-off.

I was in Andalusia in Spain, there are many chinese shops selling many different kinds of items imported from China. The challenge and competition are big among themselves. The strongest can survive, the small one will be eaten alive. Spanish government is tighten their immigration law and knock down illegal textile factory. Chinese people like to export everything Chinese to foreign countries including factory with bad condition, long hour working without OT payment, low hygiene, dirty....They deserved to send back to China immediately.

I think you have an exaggerated sense of how popular Chinese people are outside of China. In just about every Southeast Asian country there has been at one point or another a major purge of people of Chinese descent. In Malaysia the Chinese were forced to leave with Lee Kuan Yew to form Singapore. In the Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam...all have had major riots by the native people to oust their Chinese minority who have a stranglehold on their economy. Such will be the fate awaiting the Chinese if they begin emigrating en masse to Africa, except the Africans will be 10x more brutal in their purge, and who could blame them? Africa belongs to Africans. The Chinese are already colonizing parts of the US like Queens,NY/SF Chinatowns and some suburbs of LA, which does not endear them to most americans. The only place most people are welcomed is in their own country. Please respect others' wishes.

K know how unpopular they are outside China. I lived in Indonesia for +15 years, so I know how unpopular they are. They are useful.

The worst that can happen is Idi Amin done with Indians. I know enough about Africa, and post colonial treatment of whites and Indians, and it does not even come close to what the Vietnamese did to Chinese people in Vietnam. How whites were killed in Africa during decolonization? On average the whites were treated far better in Africa than they were in Asia. You see white Kenyans, how many white Indians do you see? Very few, they all left !!!. Your reasoning is not based on fact, the Africans treated their former colonizers much better than the Asians did. Please note.

Chinese are alot tougher than you think, some even make their way to Afghanistan/Iraq. The greatest fear of a Chinese immigrant are too many Chinese people.

Secondly, remember the Chinese are going to Africa not as products of colonialism, but when countries are ruled by Africans themselves. I know some of them are bribing their way for visa/residence permits, but at the end of the day its legal.

The CPC is encouraging people indirectly, they are hiring Chinese to staff SOE projects in Africa. Did I say they were encouraging people. Many of the workers remain in Africa. The Chinese government does not force them to go back.

You are confused little brat, they go back to China and work for less !!! Big deal. Maybe the Spaniards should work without OT pay, low hygiene and dirty conditions, so German tax payer like you does not have to subsidize them. You never think. I rather have Chinese illegals working in Spain then in China, at least they pay some taxes, contribute to the Spanish economy.

I think the one child policy should have been abandoned 10 years ago. China should encourage people to move into Siberia, Burma, Laos, Cambodia (some already are) and Africa. Chinese will bring development to those regions. An Indonesian official said "We need more Chinese people in Indonesia, so we can be just like Malaysia !!"]

But what do the Chinese say? Do they want to be victims of ethic genocides after "bring development to those regions"?

What ethnic genocide? The only incident of real ethnic genocide was Vietnam. Cambodia was genocide, pure and simple, they did not discriminate. All the other incidents are of riots etc.

Most of the Chinese posters are wimps, you are not not willing to take risk, and go to places like Africa, and strike it rich. You call yourself Devil Advocate, but your an intellectual weakling, you spoonfed yourself the same Western BS that Africans are savages. How many Westerners / Indians were kicked out of Africa in the last 50-60 years? The only big incident is Idi Amin in Uganda and the White in Zimbabwe, both of them are your beloved dictatorship. How many Chinese/Whites were kicked out of Asian countries - Indonesia, Vietnam, Burma, India, South Korea.

If people are so scared of ethnic genocide, why don't people like PL123 go back to China, since he is living in a country well known for genocide.

If people are so scared of ethnic genocide, why don't people like PL123 go back to China, since he is living in a country well known for genocide.
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Simple! Because they are now wimp! Every time Jewish was attacked verbally the German government jump out to support them. They are wimp to see the real face of you J*wish Bismarck that you are the real genocide in Palastinen land. Why are you people so cruel to Palastinen, you have enough Lebensraum !! You genocide!

The "intellectual weakling" in me has repeatedly exposed you wrong arguments and contradictions? What does THAT say about you?

[you spoofed yourself the same Western BS that Africans are savages.]

When did I do that? Evident? Quotes from my previous postings? I was referring to the anti-Chinese killings in Indonesia, not the Chinese in Africa!

[ How many Westerners / Indians were kicked out of Africa in the last 50-60 years? The only big incident is Idi Amin in Uganda and the White in Zimbabwe, both of them are your beloved dictatorship.]

Again, I have not said that the Africans are/have been racial genocidalists against non-Africans. If there were ethnic genocides there, they are mostly non-Africans (especially whites) against the Africans or Africans among themselves (e.g. Rwanda).

[ How many Chinese/Whites were kicked out of Asian countries - Indonesia, Vietnam, Burma, India, South Korea. ]

I don't know. You could inform us since you are an expert in this field.

[If people are so scared of ethnic genocide, why don't people like PL123 go back to China, since he is living in a country well known for genocide.]

I think the country he is living in killed Jews and Slavs in particular-- Not ethic Chinese.

Alpha males in ape communities try to mate more to propagate its genes. Emperors used to do this with their harems. People with money and power do it today.
Poor used to have more children to combat infant mortality. Now the state forbids this as child mortality is lower and their genes less valuable.
In effect it is an extermination policy as the only children by choice are male. Lot of them will die without reproducing as there will be no females to mate.
The shortage of females has led to high levels of molestation and rape in north India, especially Delhi.
Scientists are hypothesizing that intelligence is a part of female genes. The joke is on the people who reduce female gene pool.

"I know that Russia will definitely flourish in the future. Russians can form an ordered waiting line to receive bread after several days' hunger. Chinese waiting line is a mess even though only two persons are waiting." - by Fenqing Professor ZHENG Qiang

I understand why local officials treated Feng Jianmei that way. Unlike Westerners, the Chinese have no habit of obeying any rule. While Westerners brag that they enjoy a lot of freedom, they actually enjoy much less freedom than the Chinese because Western legal systems put a lot of restrictions on Westerners (for example, you cannot freely choose color if you want to paint your house in the U.S.) Compared with Western laws, Chinese laws impose much less restrictions on the Chinese.

However, even with less restriction, the Chinese still ignore laws - even though the punishment can be tough. Smuggling drugs can easily result in death penalty but smuggling drugs is still rampant in China. Other less grave crimes such as disposing waster water, selling poisonous food, and corruption are even more rampant.

China is a country that needs tough laws, tough punishments and dictatorship. It does not mean those things are good or are good for other countries. However, my own experience tells me that the Chinese laws can be tougher. And the punishments can be tougher.

In India favorable rulings by Delhi are misinterpreted by a long line of officials down the line to fill their and politicians pockets. This has gone on for thousands of years.
Hence people are cynical about rules as they feel it will always work against their interests.

as a chinese i feel insulted by your words.it sounds like the chinese as the pigs that have to be fenced or they would spoil the yard.
although it makes me always cnofused why so many chinese have to suffer themselvs by the burden of rearing their second or third child and penalty from the goverment.not event to say the insult or physical harm.
i have to admit that most the chinese are far not as noble man as the westerners,whether on obeiance of laws.or living habits or speech.but it is so bitter and one-sided and ignorant of you to attirbute all faoults to the chinese people,let the goverment be the innocent one.
Let the giving the ultra birth to be right or wrong aside ,do you think it is fair to fine such a big number of penalty in the term of SMF? what does smf really means? what does it substancially benefit the society? Do you think they(the family-plan commitee)the right to carry out the brute force to the families?since you are so familiar to the west and the us,now you tell me, does such a institution as the FPC could break into the citizen's homes and make punishment as if they are the punisher on behalf of law and the country??
you give a list of problems in china and try to support your conclusions that "Chinese laws can be tougher. And the punishments can be tougher." do you really reflect seriously on why there are so many problems in china but just throw them to the people? i suppose if more and more people choose to do evils against their conscience ,there must be huge problem in the country,especially the upper level.

Unfortunately, the Chinese need to be more disciplined. I did not say the government is innocent. I always believe that corrupt Chinese officials who receive more than $10,000 bribes should be executed. China's big problem is that the punishments on the general people and on the high-ranking officials are too light. And the Chinese legal system and Chinese policemen are too nice.

In the U.S., a policeman has the right to shoot a person to death if he does not follow the policeman's order. Americans do not think it is "brutal". So I think that it is ridiculous for them to think that the force abortion is "brutal". In fact, Chinese policemen are much less brutal than American policemen.

As an American, you've obviously never been here. What you're thinking of is HOA's or "Home Ownership Associations" which can mandate what color you can paint your house and are run by private home builders and aren't terribly common. You only find those in upscale subdivisions full of old people in America. It's not the government so much. The federal government cannot come onto your land and complain about the color of your house.
The police cannot shot you if you don't follow their orders either, rouge police officers sometimes use "non-compliance" as an excuse, but people often raise hell when it does occur, and yes, most Americans find any sort of killing brutal since we are empathetic human beings after all. So you're comparison is way off. Forced abortion is horrible, there is no justification for a government to pin a woman down and kill her child.

Here in America we don't kill politicians for accepting bribes and the practice is almost unheard of here. They lose their position or end up in jail but taking the life of another in any situation (especially over trivial cash). Instead it would be better to instill pride in people's civic duties instead of fear.

China is approaching a demographic nightmare, almost like Japan on a larger scale. In 20 years they'll be in the same boat and PAYING $1,000's for your newest generation to have children. An economy needs more consumers if it ever hopes to keep growing, otherwise there is no point of adding investment to a shrinking nation. It is in the best interest of the country to stop this horrendous policy before China throws itself off of a cliff.

Police in the USA are bound by very strict rules as to how much force they are allowed to use in any given situation. They, like everyone in the USA, are bound by the laws of the land. Is this perfectly enforced? Of course not just like any large enough system there will be discrepancies. The fact that our media is able to and does point out these discrepancies and that our citizens are able to seek redress under the law in public courts shows the checks and balances we have on the use of force by law enforcement.

I don't know how you get the idea that HOA is one organization or that it is influential. AN HOA is just one group of homeowners who come together as a community to freely create whatever home standards they want. There are some of these in the USA but they are hardly an influential group or a homogenous group at that.

Finally, I think you need to understand that an ad hominem attack is an argumentative fallacy and fails to disprove your opponents point i.e. saying Americans(even though this is a British magazine) are brutal because of they law enforcement techniques does not disprove the point that forced abortions upon unwilling women are brutal as well.

Isn't the real message of this post that, although there are injustices that happen in America, we have freedom of the press and freedom of speech which allows people to criticize their own government and to bring these things to light, and then stopped.

@hilar,
Yes, I think you should be outraged at the idea that somehow the Chinese people are not capable of, or deserve, being treated with the respect of having control over their own lives, or their own government. Americans are wealthy and free not because we are better people, but because less stands in the way of us being the the people all people are.

What do you think of a government that thinks of its own people as a detriment, the number of which it seeks to reduce? As far as I'm concerned, we Americans are strong, capable, and the America is damn lucky to have each and every one of us. I don't think Chinese people are so different.

They said the same thing about us when we gained our Independence. When our second President, John Adams, was ambassador to London, the King asked him "do they not suffer much for the want of a ruler". It was difficult to describe how much we did not, while keeping up the pretense of politeness.

We took our liberty and never looked back. There are always those ready to offer security in exchange for liberty, in this the Communist Party is as unnecessary as the Qing Dynasty or the British before it. It is that same liberty that made us the country we are. As that same President said, "liberty is power". Whether China will one day be free, or whether it will one day take the position in the world that we hold today, I do know that China will be both strong and free, or it will be neither.

There are 312 million people in the US and two innocent people were shot, I think these are terrible of course and many others would agree with me. We have the court system to keep these assholes in check when they get out of line and no longer uphold the law.

The HOA is plural, not singular. It's not one governing body but a neighborhood might have an individual one run by it's members. You don't seem to really get the fact it's not a unified, government organization.

who told you this fake information? China did have its law, which copied from Janpan and Germany or other countries. But chinese do not follow the rule. and the laws are not well implemented and get misleading and confusing.

by the way, do as the romans do if you are in rome. the europens also get the same habits when they are in china. They enjoy the superior treatment and pay less retirement fee for chinese workers.
did the chinese blame or complian? No.as the rule/laws followers, they do not stick to their gus either. hey, is there any reason for you all to blame the others, when before the lord, you are also one of the bad guys?

the cost or the consequence of following the rules is always higher than the breach of these. so while the other are jumping the Q, what is the point for you to keep in a line?

we got a common sense, in china ,we depend on ourselves. in europe, people depend on the Government.

First learn not to write a piece of essay. Keep your comment short and at the point. You are certainly spewing regime views by harmonizing your holy police force! To have the law and to obey the law is 2 different things. Since when American government will obey UN's decision not to invade any country? You go as you like anytime.

If American cops were really bounded by "strict rules", then the 1992 Los Angeles riots would have not had happened. If "freedom of media" could solve social problems, then slums filled with African Americans or Hispanic Americans in New York or San Diego would have had disappeared. Seeking redress is NOT free. Instead, it is supper expensive. So only the rich in the U.S. are able to seek redress, if any. If public courts in the U.S. were able to give redress to the poor and the minority, then African Americans would have had not relied on riots. They would have had instead seek redress in public courts. Sorry, the Chinese don't understand your beautiful theories. We only care about results. That is why we reject most of the stupid "Western values".

I am not saying forced abortion is not brutal. I think it is brutal. What I meant is that some Americans are just disgustingly hypocritical. When they close their eyes to injustice and brutality in their own countries, they pretend to be moral judges to slash other countries.

It's true that the police tend to badger minorities more, but we don't massacre innocent Tibetans for wanting their sovereignty either. When the police do kill innocent people they are often held accountable for their actions. I can assure you none of those cops who beat people got away with their jobs. Power will always corrupt in America, China or Europe. You give someone a badge and a gun they'll play the role and knock some people around. Look up the Stanford prison experiment. America has problems, yes, but as a whole it's functional.

And there are stupid archaic laws but those can be challenged and ruled against a state or in some cases the federal constitution. Often times they aren't even enforced except by local jurisdictions.

I have no problem with most of your criticisms of America. In fact I would agree with many of them to some extent. I can appreciate that you can become tired of hypocritical behavior.

What most foreigners do not comprehend about the American(USA) psyche though is that we criticize government. Not just our own but other governments as well. I do not see the struggle for liberty, economic prosperity, and human rights as being an issue that ends at my own border. I see it as universal to the human condition and I see all the peoples of the world as deserving of these things.

I don't discuss China's one child policy with an aim to condemn the Chinese people or their country but with an aim to improve their Government. I hope that distinction makes sense.

If this article were about American policy I would welcome the criticism(and hopefully productive criticism at that). It is however, about Chinese policy and therefore not very productive for us to simply dismiss conversation because of wrongheaded American policy.

"We do not like to criticize other people in our freetime."
I guess your at work for the CCP right now spewing anti-American propaganda and doing anything to draw the conversation away from the relevant topic.
Since you wouldn't be using your free time to criticize other people.

Just one comment. Although I am not a native English speaker, I would like to teaching you the meaning of "massacre". The population of Tibetans was about 2 million in China in 1964. Now, the population of Tibetans is about 6 million. That is not a result of "massacre". In contrast, the population of American Indians dropped from about 50 million to about 2 million. That is truly the result of "massacre".

Constructive and reasonable criticisms are always welcome. The criticisms should be based on facts. Unfortunately, Western media outlets often hide important facts when they report China's news stories. The critical facts in this reports are as follows.

1. Forced abortion is legal in China. The purpose is controlling population.
2. However, forced abortion in the late stage of pregnancy (normally 6 month pregnancy) is prohibited in China.
3. Feng Jianmei lied to local Chinese officials that her pregnancy period was just 5 months (in fact, it was 7 months). Her calculation is simple: cheat officials about her pregnancy stage, ask them to wait for her to collect fines, after the delivery of her baby, then she will claim that she has no money to pay fines.
4. After realizing that it is hopeless to collect fines from Feng Jianmei, local officials carried out forced abortion. However, after that, Feng claimed that her pregnancy period was actually 7 months, not 5 months. Since those local Chinese officials broke laws, they quickly lost their jobs.

I must say it is a sad story. However, if one reads ALL facts and knows the whole story, then he will have different feelings from those after reading Economist's partial and biased story.

Anti-China has plenty in the western media. See 2008 Tibetan riots as a good example.

The world is anti-America, and the world is pro-America depend what you just did. Can we pro American when you still holding Guantanamo prisoners, Drones killing people everywhere you like, stiring troubles everywhere to fit your desire. Where on earth is NOT American business! World business is American business.

On principle and practicality the One child policy is good (allowing the most capable and productive to have the most children), some of the more draconian measures (late term abortions) need to be toned down and incentives tweeked, but really in the end enforcing the policy helps China in the long run.

Wow. I never thought of it that way. I didn't realize that Chinese people could have more than one child if they were willing and able to pay for the privelege. It's a kind of indirect eugenics program.

So, that means that, in China, the people with the most wealth get to have more children. Well, as long as the attainment of wealth is associated with intelligence, drive, creativity, and adherence to legal/moral codes in China, the more capable people there will be.

We may be facing the Chinese Uberman in the future. I'm of the opinion that countries in the West need to do a much better job of privileging people who have children AND the resources to raise them. Sure, we give some tax breaks for dependent children: maybe we need to give REALLY big tax breaks.

The Chinese are very practical, they realize most things have a societal cost, might as well be upfront.

They don't prevent people outright in having children, they just acknowledge raising children is a very intensive investment, its best to make the most out of your limited resources if you do, a focus on quality over quantity.

If you look at mating strategies for Chinese and Far east Asians, the emphasis is on the practical/Intelligence, women choose men based on skill, talent, career, family background. So intelligent people tend to marry intelligent people and produce intelligent offspring, in a continuous cycle.

In the west the focus is more on the physicality (love, especially in America), you often see quite intelligent people marrying less intelligent people so there is no reinforcing mechanism, which ends up with mixed results. I believe this is one reason why the US has not been able to produce any world renowned Scientist or Theorist (Yes Einstein was born overseas, so was Tesla, Benjamin Franklin is the only world Renowned Scientist for his work with Electricity born in the US) and continues to be unable to produce sufficient Engineering, Science Graduates (STEM Science, Technical, Engineering, Math Graduate rates continue to decline in the US they have dropped fro 8% to around 3% of degrees)

An even greater problem is you don't reproduce enough, like nearly all East Asian societies are doing now Most Chinese don't think about societal cost, they don't, if they did they will voluntary hand over their income to the tax man instead of evading taxes. Think about it for a while. If Chinese were socially conscious (the assumption having one child is good) there wouldn't be a need for the one child policy.

My friend, people in ALL western countries, including Latin Am. marry based on love, not only Americans. And there are proportionally many more great American and Western scientists than Chinese or Asian. Only the privileged rich people in China can have a good education. Do you forget that the majority of your own population are still poor and under educated, that 10% of the people are still illiterate? As for technology and science, China is no trailblazer, your best ability is still copying, not creating. As for growth, it's easy to grow when GDP per capita is a mere 4k. I wanna see China keep the growth after it hits the middle-income wall, when growth starts to depend on innovation and domestic demand and not exports of cheap stuff.
As for the decline of science students in the West, this has to do with the fact that when life is good, people get lazy, love doesn't have anything to do with that. Actually, although we marry for love, most westerners marry inside their social class. Marrying someone based on skills and intelligence doesn't increase the overall quality of the people, it only creates two separate classes: the winners and losers.
In this sense, the West is not different, we marry "out of love", but it's like we are "programmed" to fall in love within our own group of people. One great example is that until recently, people never fell in love with people of different races. I, myself, always fell in love with people who possess the same physical, social, economic and ideological traits ( coincidence, no?). We can say that love is an additional bonus that we have.

Rich ≠ good at raising children. If anything, I think people who have grown up with silver spoon in hand have less to contribute to the world than those who have had to scrape by every minute of their lives.

"allowing those most capable to have more children". you should know that shoul do some investigation before you come to an conclution. chinese polocy allow famers have 2 children while actually in there are many families have more than 2 chirldren in rural area of china. Polocy is good, but when it is implemmented cruel thing can some times happen

"So all those forced abortions and sterilizations campaigns are what exactly?"

First off, these are people who continuously break the law, and refuse to pay for the extra children they have, this is irresponsible. So everyone else follows the rules, but these people can get away with it?

Second, China is a huge developing country, there very little uniformity in implementing policy, so yes you'll get exceptions and extreme cases, What developing country doesn't. Officially the Chinese central government has acknowledge the forced late term abortion was wrong.

"So, that means that, in China, the people with the most wealth get to have more children. Well, as long as the attainment of wealth is associated with intelligence, drive, creativity, and adherence to legal/moral codes in China, the more capable people there will be.

We may be facing the Chinese Uberman in the future."

One thing you're missing in this analysis is that the people having the most kids in China are the rural poor, because the one child policy isn't enforced so much in rural areas.

Yes, not to mention that in developing countries ( and in rich countries too), especially those under dictatorships and those with a lot of state companies, being rich doesn't necessarily means being talented or intelligent. Corruption, nepotism, connection to politicians are the main roads to economic success. I've lived in a developing country for a long time and can tell that many people in high positions are dumb and incopetent, they just have important relatives.

In the U.S. we call them the rich, the 1% and those "old-ugly-rich-men" who marry young models, etc, are not even half of the one percent. And don't tell me that all rich men in China marry women based on intelect. See Zuckerberg, Romney, Kennedy, Kerry,etc, most of them marry with women of the same social class and age, who went to the same school,etc. And yes, they're beautiful, but this, lol, doesn't mean they're stupid or untalented. You, just like the other person above, don't know the American society, you are basing yourselves in Hollywood movies, TV shows, tabloids and most of all: your own imagination. "America doesn't have scientist because of love" Duhh!

Not to mention that most "old-ugly-rich-men" who marry young models,etc are marrying for second, third, forth......tenth time. Usually, the first wife, whith whom they have their kids with, are women of the same social class, education and age.A good example of this is Newt Gingrich, he's married with a staffer twenty years younger, but she's the third wife. The first wife, whith whom he has two kids, was a scholar like him and older. So I can say that most Americans have kids with people of the same social class, which means people with similar skills, education, opportunities, etc.
Those men you've mentioned are usually people with grown kids, who are "enjoying life" and don't plan to have a family anymore, therefore they don't affect "eugenics" or the "production" of inteligent people, like your Chinese fellow said above. This only proves that neither of you know anything about the American society other than what you read at tabloids.

Hollywood is not your main stream !! How pitty you are not even live in a Hollywood dream world---something like "pretty woman". Where are you up to now!! Are you the 99% or the 1%, or the bankrupted 1% from the rich 1%--Lehmann Brothers !! Your Hollywood soft power is way too successful as you can imagined of. But so naive I am not.

BTW those divorced rich couple have no more love now, but have to argue how much the wife will get from the husband. A house, company shares, children right etc etc. Very lovely indeed.

As someone who grew up in China but had later immigrated to Canada, I find it unfair that some people do get away with the one-child policy. My mom had to get an abortion after being pregnant with a child after me.

Guo finds it unfair that she has to pay a heavily discounted fine for having her third and fourth children... Well, I find it very unfair that she's even able to have those children when a lot of people sacrificed having multiple children for the sake of following rules.

We all know that if the one-child policy weren't followed in the '90s then workers like those in Foxconn would be paid an even lower wage. Perhaps food prices would be even more expensive and her own children would cost even more to raise.

What I find most infuriating is that such selfish exploitation of loopholes is viewed as heroic by The Economist. Maybe it thinks that hurting the Chinese "government" is okay because after all the party members are mostly rich and corrupt. But, other Chinese people are hurt as well.

It is a fundamental human right to have children - as many as you choose, and it is murder, pure and simple, to force any woman to have an abortion. There is no way China can ever be a healthy society until it values human rights, women and children. I am not even a full Christian and I do support the right to have an abortion by choice in the US, but you will NEVER convince me forced abortion or the one child policy is anything but murder and abuse. Over population is no excuse. There are ways to have a good economy and allow people to have more than 1 child.

It funny how you can say that Westerners are being emotional or not very practical. How practical is having 30 Million Bachelors? How practical is having a rapidly aging population? If Chinese were loyal to China and practical, shouldn't they line up at the tax office and dutifully pay their taxes. Actually for most governments its the most onerous duty as a citizen, something the obedient Chinese are pathologically unable and unwilling to do.

It depends on what the rules are. The Anhui peasants breaking of the rules in 1978 was one spark that help ignite the reform period in China. They secretly decided to break apart the commune and started to farm their plots privately. They penalty for breaking the rules was most likely death.

The birth rate in China was approach 2 before the one child policy was . In the medium term 30-40 years it might do some good, but in the long run 50-60 years its not so good.

Comparatively, yes the Chinese are much more practical than Westerners, This is why China is rising while the West is Declining, is every society perfect no, but its obvious, from the West adventures in European Socialism and unsustatainable debt that Westerners prefer Idealism vs Pragmatism.

The Chinese acknowledge they have potential demographic problems and are looking at ways to address the problem, its a work in progress, the Chinese realize their problems, instead of denying them like the West (Debt, over consumption, uncompetitiveness, social policies that destroy families and make it difficult to raise children resulting in negative population growth, Drug abuse culture, do I need to go on?)

The West has been living in dream world for way to long, Chinas rise is and will cause a rude awakening for Westerners.

>>It is a fundamental human right to have children - as many as you choose<<

Under what rational argument? "Fundamental human rights" are usually those things the exercise of which does not affect anyone other than the person exercising them. Having children has quite far reaching social implications, and it has exceptionally high impact on the children themselves (being born to bad parents can lead to a lifetime of suffering). Having children, therefore, must be at least as tightly regulated as adoption.

i do agree with u and appreciate what you said
if a goverment dont learn to respect his people and let them live with dignity,how should we expect the people to keep to the 'laws' and make any improvement?
i believe too there are always other ways to have a good economy and ways to persvade people voluntarily keep the birth control,as long as the goverment be less cruel and less greedy which i hold no hope of.

I think you are generalizing and your thinking is flawed. Chinese are one of the most idealistic and ideological people on this earth, and that is what got them into the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. Let's just say, China learned its lesson, rather than saying Chinese are much more practical than Westerners.

No, Chinese trust the wrong foreign ideology---Communism or Marxium and your beloved hero Mao (communist) told Chinese people this experiement Chinese should do. When he did it in a small scale, it will be OK. Well too late.

"Chinese are one of the most idealistic and ideological people on this earth, and that is what got them into the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution"

allow me to fine-tune the above statement a bit. "Chinese WERE one of the most idealistic and ideological people on this earth, and that WAS what got them into the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution"

But since the 1980's, Chinese have been one of the most pragmatic people on this earth. I am sure you have heard of Deng's famous "Black cat and white cat theory".

It is rather odd that you blame the Economist for merely reporting the story and say nothing about the Chinese "government" (the quotation marks are yours and not mine) that makes the laws and selectively applies them to some and turns a blind eye for others.

I wonder whether you believe in Sustainable Development.
If not, I have no discussion with you, and please not see words below.
If yes, it's totally wrong to have as many children as you choose. Birth Control is essential.
I see no difference for the child or fetus between forced abortion or freewill abortion.
I see no reason why it's moral to let the mother kill the fetus, if you believe others except the mother who kill the fetus, by forced abortion, is murderers.

I think at that time, the law was reasonable. China in the early '90s (when Guo had her abortion) was far poorer than it is today. Furthermore, the state is responsible for the welfare of the Chinese people as it is the main employer and provider of goods and services. A case could be made that it's better for the state to limit children to one per family than to have people starve because the state couldn't afford to feed everyone.

I think at that time it was a burden that should be shared by everyone. So I do it unfair that Guo was able to have 4 children when other people were essentially subsidizing her large family by only having had one child per family.

Hi I am a Christian American and I believe that the One Child Policy is evil because God told me that a child unborn is a child murdered. I also believe that contraception, abortion, and masturbation are murder. God gave women eggs and men sperm for one reason, and to deny that reason is to commit murder.

Hi! I am Christian American [not poorly disguised China troll] and I believe all sorts of moronic notions with an intensity devoid of empathy, just like you! Perhaps I America am no better as person, nor smarter. Given half chance I would probably be just as horrible as you.

Unfortunately, I live in free society where each comrade is allowed to live his own life in peace and amity. In America I have anti-social bourgeoisie rights, which mean that I can only live own private life as moron, rather than forcing others to be moron too. Only fifth-column capitalist running dog could believe this make staggeringly obvious sense as way to run country.

I often weep that I am not in glorious self-depopulating nation of China, where people may inflict stupid on each other everyday with wild abandon.

yes ,you American don't use abortion to kill lives,but choose to invade Irak and kill thousands innocent local residences instead.These are humanity and freedom that you and your American fellows portray!

That right, I capitalist swine. You no suspect otherwise according to plan. I sorry my response awkward, it my fault for only going to bourgeoisie education system suffering from hideous academic freedom rather than most-glorious re-education camp. :(

You right, my emotion weakness not removed by continuous labor building railroad for great army of people's liberation. How I can have friend without party to sanction appropriate personal relationship, according to wishes of leader.

You laugh at India weakness like I. They say they strong nation but can no build great border with patriotic snipers shoot any enemy of people try to betray nation, like glorious ally North Korea!? I laughter with you. In happy nation China, not even move around own country without loving guidance of party. Sad nation India have no hukuo system. I often tears for this.

Hey, I tell you joke, you be friend. One bourgeoisie pig-dog say to other bourgeoisie pig-dog, "hey, why there no freedom?". It funny because there no bourgeoisie swine of course, all dead in happy cultural revolution. Laughter. :)

For more laughter, if you work in sensitive American industry, or for pathetic American Department of Defense, you send me schematics. I find very funny because I American like you. Particularly must send secret American "semicolon" technology. :)

Indeed, plenty of people claim that the one-child-policy, whilst brutal for those at the sharp end, has only trivial impact on fertility rates (very few additional children would be born even if authorities removed the law and became more accommodating).

Either way, for political stability, the one child policy must now be revoked.

Would you please elaborate on the sources saying that the one-child-policy has little impact?
China already implements some of the methods you suggest to lower the birth rate: contraception is incredibly easy to get (in big cities there are dispensers every block or so and it's widely available in rural areas as well)and publicity campaigns are long-standing and wide-spread. There is room for growth in the areas of women's rights and balanced economic development.

It is precisely because China continues to urbanise rapidly, continues to get rich rapidly, has widespread access to family planning and has one of the most progressive environments for female empowerment, that China's fertility is projected to fall (probably as far as European or Japanese levels) even if the one-child policy were now retracted.

A number of previous economist articles have argued this precise point. Admittedly, it's speculation - yet seems well reasoned.

The one-child policy was effective in the past - but the average Chinese woman today (as with most women in the developed world) would stick at one child anyway.

Not only is the one-child policy pointless; it has also ceased to serve any material purpose in China.

A smaller population might be especially beneficial if - as widely observed - richer people (we hope our descendants will be more affluent) place disproportionate value on land (whether it be demanding organic foods, large detached houses with gardens, preserving wild environments, etc).

"China ... has one of the most progressive environments for female empowerment,"

The above may be true compared to Saudi Arabia. As for comparing with the advanced countries, I'm afraid that you don't know the real China as much as you think -- I mean the actual China, not the fictitious China discussed in American univrsities nor in the PRC's propaganda.

It seems like a stupid policy because it is arbitrarily enforced and then in gruesome ways. A 2 child limit makes more sense anyway and most Moms don't want more than 3 kids anyways. It would seem they could achieve the same affect with a better approach. Besides, arent they worried about not enough young people?

I believe that the CCP is not especially concerned with "not enough young people". The CCP has ambitions of much higher living standards, and aspires to expand the supply of educated young people - something which there is still abundant room to improve on - whilst relatively reducing the supply of unskilled low wage workers, thus achieving wage growth, less inequality and a more "harmonious" (and politically stable?) society.

The CCP also has the explicit aim of reversing the rapid population growth caused by extremely high birth (and much increased survival rates) rates in the '50s & '60s - bringing China to a more sustainable position, where it is less dependent on food & energy imports. This challenge will seem all the greater as living standards and consumption rises.

Nonetheless, 1-child is now an entirely stupid and counter productive policy - tens of thousands of women suffer needlessly, and this could just be the spark that turns millions of Chinese against their government.

I question your definition of "the average Chinese woman," as it seems to overlook the vastly different situations of women in cities and women in rural areas. Many rural parents (at least in the area in which I live) have two children, two to four siblings,and look at the freedom to have as many children as you like with approval.

I don't wish to dispute the strand of your argument as it applies to families in comfortable situations, but I do wish to point out that not everyone is getting rich at the same rate and that the behaviors and wishes of those people with slower rates of development should also be taken into consideration.

By quite a large margin. Whence we can infer that if China has enough features in common with these other countries, that its fertility rate will continue to fall as the economy develops, even without the one-child policy.

Bredon's point is very good - China still has masses of agricultural or low paid/ low educated women (far less visible to the west), a large proportion of which still desire large families. Perhaps liberalisation would bring a little baby boom. But it wouldn't change the long term downwards trend.

The chart shows, as said, China has lower fertility rate than any other regions in the world. Births per 1000 women are 8.83 in China, 18.81 in East Asia, 26.9 in Europe, 30.94 in America, so if my math is right and my eyes aren't blind, it means the fertility rate in China is some of the lowest countries on the earth.

It's hard to believe that the country which has the second largest GDP is so inhuman towards its citizens. I just feel that I am fortunate not to have been born in such a country. Unfortunately, many people still glorify China for its spectacular economic growth but forget the price its people are paying for it.

The price is worth paying - China has freed hundreds of millions more people from poverty than India has.

In positive terms (freedom to eat nice food, travel the world, wear good clothes, have a great education, access good healthcare, etc), Chinese people have far more freedom than Indians.

India must urbanise faster, reduce its fertility rate faster, invest more in education, invest more in infrastructure, improve the quality of its courts, improve the quality of its government, deregulate much of the economy, open to world trade and cleanse itself of corruption.

It can't happen overnight, but Indian people must somehow put pressure on their government to bring about faster progress in these directions.

The reason India is a great nation with a great future ahead of it can be perfectly illustrated by what happened when LBJ tried to control India's population, by conditioning food aid on doing what he told them to. Indira Gandhi put in forced sterilization, although admittedly somewhat unequally depending on the person's politics.

The Indian people had no problem telling the President of the United States to go straight to hell, along with Mrs. Gandhi. That's pretty much what has made America free and prosperous as well, our willingness to tell the President of the United States to go to hell from time to time.

Instead what helped India was the developments of one American, Norman Borlaug, combined with the intelligence and industry of the average Indian farmer. Record harvests, and storehouses overflowing with grain.

Sure, it would be good if India reduced corruption and opened itself to foreign trade and technology, just as it did with the Green Revolution. But also, from time to time tell snobbish government officials, foreign or domestic, where they can go.

i insist that birth control in china is necessary and benefit to the country for long.but we can not claim that the ways they take are just and right. you can not just throw a word of 'The price is worth paying ' and ignore the pains the family suffer.will you still stick to your opinion if you are put at their position or your friends or relatives?
it is not suit to analyse china as india,if there are more courts in china,to the people what they get just more scenes of splendid buildings . if you know more about china,you will realise there is no 'quality of the courts' in china.

You cann't go to extreme by using an accident to "screw" a country which is superior than you in terms of economy and global influence.Dozens of well-educated people from your country finally choose to leave your country and go to other countries.If they love the country where they were born ,why will they choose to leave!?

fairly reasonable.Actually most Chinses citizens criticize for the local governmet's behavour in terms of this issue.But do remmember this is not a ploicy that created by the majority of Chinese citizens .The reality is that nobody has the power to stop their evil behaviour.So that is the mechanism that at fault,not most Chinese folks.

If a baby aborted by the authorities is seen in a graph and correlated to China's economic progress, then it is easy to digest...Surely you haven't had an unborn child taken away from you. Talk to the families of the children that never were and tell them it has been worth it.