Final dumb questions before first boot of PDP-11/23. - VMS

This is a discussion on Final dumb questions before first boot of PDP-11/23. - VMS ; Ok, I have the cards in and configured and I have some faith in the power
supply. First boot happens tonight if I can get the following answered:
1. Which DLV11-J port is channel 3?? The M&amp;P book seems to ...

Final dumb questions before first boot of PDP-11/23.

Ok, I have the cards in and configured and I have some faith in the power
supply. First boot happens tonight if I can get the following answered:

1. Which DLV11-J port is channel 3?? The M&P book seems to handily not
mention that and I don't think it was on the card itself (don't want to
pull it to look). I think it's farthest from the power supply. I can
always put a terminal on both end ports.

2. I have three DLV11-RS232 cables which came with the unit. Two of them
have what appear to be grounding wires on the RS232 end. Do these need to
be attatched to anything? What about the one that doesn't have it. Is
there any difference for the console port?

2.5. I don't actually have a real terminal, just PCs with terminal
programs. Is there any diffeence I should know about? I need a null-modem,
right?

3. The big fans come on when the power supply is turned on. Is that right?
If so, do the fans not turn off when you turn the computer off? Do you
have to switch the PS to get silence?

4. The front pannel has what appears to be a 3-pin power connector on the
back. I've not seen anything that plugs into it. What goes there and do I
need it?

5. How do you turn the blessed thing on? My front pannel has three
switches and two LEDs. I'm guessing you just switch the one marked AUX-
ON/OFF.

6. If I hit the HALT switch, I should drop into ODT no matter what is
happening, right?

7. The RESET switch does just that, right?

Thanks again for looking. With luck, first boot tonight.

..wk.

Re: Final dumb questions before first boot of PDP-11/23.

William Korvine schrieb:
> Ok, I have the cards in and configured and I have some faith in the power
> supply. First boot happens tonight if I can get the following answered:
>
> 1. Which DLV11-J port is channel 3?? The M&P book seems to handily not
> mention that and I don't think it was on the card itself (don't want to
> pull it to look). I think it's farthest from the power supply. I can
> always put a terminal on both end ports.

I think it's the left one seen from the backside facing to the
terminal-connectors, componentside upwards. (Just from memory...) YMMV
>
> 2. I have three DLV11-RS232 cables which came with the unit. Two of them
> have what appear to be grounding wires on the RS232 end. Do these need to
> be attatched to anything? What about the one that doesn't have it. Is
> there any difference for the console port?

Earley cables didn't have separate ground wires, and sometimes older
FS-engineers cut them away from newer cables... It doesn't harm to
connect one side to the computer chassis. (Grounding is an art by
itself, and has from country to country sometimes different legal aspects.)
>
> 2.5. I don't actually have a real terminal, just PCs with terminal
> programs. Is there any diffeence I should know about? I need a null-modem,
> right?

See if the terminal emulator has a "dataleads-only mode" so no
HW-handshking. If not you may have to connect pins 4 to 5 and 6 to 8 to
20 on a 25 pole RS232 socket. Nowadays PC have 9 pole plugs but my
personal memory-capacity is exhausted for remembering the pin-numbers on
thatone
>
> 3. The big fans come on when the power supply is turned on. Is that right?

Sure, anything else will toast your chips whitin 15 minutes...
> If so, do the fans not turn off when you turn the computer off?

Guess you talk about halt-swich, Thatone has no effect on the fans.
>Do you have to switch the PS to get silence?

Yes, typicalley the fan should shut down after all other components are
switched off.
>
> 4. The front pannel has what appears to be a 3-pin power connector on the
> back. I've not seen anything that plugs into it. What goes there and do I
> need it?
>
Could be the power-control bus, to remoteley switch other boxes,
peripherals and racks.
> 5. How do you turn the blessed thing on?
White smoke?
> My front pannel has three
> switches and two LEDs. I'm guessing you just switch the one marked AUX-
> ON/OFF.

Halt/enab must be at enable
LTC (line time clock) should be on (could be aux on your box)
Run (or reset) (pushbutton) should initiate a boot-sequence, provided
that there is a boot memory
>
> 6. If I hit the HALT switch, I should drop into ODT no matter what is
> happening, right?
>
Yes

> 7. The RESET switch does just that, right?
>
Not sure, I think to remember that reset in Halt mode will issue a
bus-init signal, and reset in enable mode will do a boot. Anyone else on
this?

Good luck
Frank

Re: Final dumb questions before first boot of PDP-11/23.

Frank Arnold wrote:
> William Korvine schrieb:
>> 1. Which DLV11-J port is channel 3?? The M&P book seems to handily not
>> mention that and I don't think it was on the card itself (don't want
>> to pull it to look). I think it's farthest from the power supply. I
>> can always put a terminal on both end ports.
> I think it's the left one seen from the backside facing to the
> terminal-connectors, componentside upwards. (Just from memory...) YMMV

Yes, J3 is the leftmost as seen from the installed position
(looking head-on at the handles, components uppermost).
>> 2. I have three DLV11-RS232 cables which came with the unit. Two of
>> them have what appear to be grounding wires on the RS232 end. Do these
>> need to be attatched to anything? What about the one that doesn't have
>> it. Is there any difference for the console port?
> Earley cables didn't have separate ground wires, and sometimes older
> FS-engineers cut them away from newer cables... It doesn't harm to
> connect one side to the computer chassis. (Grounding is an art by
> itself, and has from country to country sometimes different legal aspects.)

The shield on an RS-232-C cable should be attached to
chassis ground on *one* end only. The common signal-
reference ground (pin 7 on the DB-25 connector) is
separate from the shield ground. There is a technical
issue in connecting two different systems' logic grounds
together like RS-232-C does, but it usually works okay
in practice.

For short cable runs, the shield connection isn't
usually useful enough to bother with.
>> 2.5. I don't actually have a real terminal, just PCs with terminal
>> programs. Is there any diffeence I should know about? I need a
>> null-modem, right?
> See if the terminal emulator has a "dataleads-only mode" so no
> HW-handshking. If not you may have to connect pins 4 to 5 and 6 to 8 to
> 20 on a 25 pole RS232 socket. Nowadays PC have 9 pole plugs but my
> personal memory-capacity is exhausted for remembering the pin-numbers on
> thatone

http://cnx.rice.edu/content/m12293/latest/
(for example) explains serial ports and gives one set
of pin-outs. Unfortunately various devices differ in
whether they consider their connectors to be acting as
DTE (terminal) or DCE (modem). (One side's "transmit"
is the other side's "receive".) Thus sometimes a null
modem (or a cable wired to incorporate one) is needed
to switch around the "input" and "output" sense of the
data and control lines. Real terminals are almost
always DTE and real modems are always DCE. DTE should
have male connectors and DCE female, although one finds
screw-ups on occasion. The PC serial port should be
male and act as DTE (terminal), which means that no
null modem should be required *if* your existing cable
was originally used with a real terminal. If you have
only 9-pin serial port on the PC (no 25-pin port), then
the simplest thing is to use a 9-pin female to 25-pin
male serial-port adapter, sometimes found at Best Buy,
CompUSA, or maybe Radio Shack. (You'll soon learn to
stock up on such stuff before it totally vanishes from
retail stores.)

Since the DLV11-J (aka DLVJ1-M) doesn't provide flow
control signals (RI, DSR, CTS as seen at the PC) you
need to disable the "hardware handshaking" for the port
on the PC (usually done as options in the terminal
emulator program, e.g. HyperTerminal). Also disable
"XON/XOFF" flow control, at least for now. (You might
need to enable XON/XOFF support later if the simulated
terminal display is occasionally garbled.) As a last
resort, if the PC program requires hardware handshaking
on the serial port, you can jumper CTS to RTS and DTR
to DSR and RI on the PC end of the cable.

It is a good idea to have an RS-232-C breakout box on
hand so you can see the state of the various signals.
>> 4. The front pannel has what appears to be a 3-pin power connector on
>> the back. I've not seen anything that plugs into it. What goes there
>> and do I need it?
> Could be the power-control bus, to remoteley switch other boxes,
> peripherals and racks.

Yes, it's for a so-called "remote sense cable", used
so that the front-panel power switch can control a
power distribution box that is normally used in
cabinets as the place into which all power cords
(except the power districution box's!) are plugged.
You don't have to use this; just plug in and use the
power switch on the rear of the BA11-N box.
>> 5. How do you turn the blessed thing on?

(Make sure all the cables are secure.)
Enable the DC ON, ENABLE/HALT, and LTC ON switches.
(The LTC is needed by most operating systems.)
Turn on the console terminal (fire up HyperTerminal).
Turn on the BA11-N box's real power switch (which you
already know about since you've been monitoring power
supply voltages). You should see something from the
boot ROM (console ODT) on the terminal, and the front
panel LEDs should illuminate.

Re: Final dumb questions before first boot of PDP-11/23.

Another quick thanks. Everything works. See details in yet another thread
("First boot on PDP-11/23).

I did notice the "Jn" markings on the DLV11-J, but believed (and still
believe) that they mark the jumper groups, not the RS232 channels. As
evidence of this, note that the J1 and J2 markings sit right above jumper
groups rather than below ports. Or I might be wrong, and I doubt it
matters.

In the end, I have an eight-inch "adapter" on the RS232 cable, consisting
of a light-box, 25-to-9 adapter, null-modem, and gender-bender. Still, it
works great. Using Telix on the PC for now.

..wk.

"Douglas A. Gwyn" wrote in
news:M42dnZPkWoNtse3fRVn-tg@comcast.com:
> Frank Arnold wrote:
>> William Korvine schrieb:
>>> 1. Which DLV11-J port is channel 3?? The M&P book seems to handily
>>> not mention that and I don't think it was on the card itself (don't
>>> want to pull it to look). I think it's farthest from the power
>>> supply. I can always put a terminal on both end ports.
>> I think it's the left one seen from the backside facing to the
>> terminal-connectors, componentside upwards. (Just from memory...)
>> YMMV
>
> Yes, J3 is the leftmost as seen from the installed position
> (looking head-on at the handles, components uppermost).
>
>>> 2. I have three DLV11-RS232 cables which came with the unit. Two of
>>> them have what appear to be grounding wires on the RS232 end. Do
>>> these need to be attatched to anything? What about the one that
>>> doesn't have it. Is there any difference for the console port?
>> Earley cables didn't have separate ground wires, and sometimes older
>> FS-engineers cut them away from newer cables... It doesn't harm to
>> connect one side to the computer chassis. (Grounding is an art by
>> itself, and has from country to country sometimes different legal
>> aspects.)
>
> The shield on an RS-232-C cable should be attached to
> chassis ground on *one* end only. The common signal-
> reference ground (pin 7 on the DB-25 connector) is
> separate from the shield ground. There is a technical
> issue in connecting two different systems' logic grounds
> together like RS-232-C does, but it usually works okay
> in practice.
>
> For short cable runs, the shield connection isn't
> usually useful enough to bother with.
>
>>> 2.5. I don't actually have a real terminal, just PCs with terminal
>>> programs. Is there any diffeence I should know about? I need a
>>> null-modem, right?
>> See if the terminal emulator has a "dataleads-only mode" so no
>> HW-handshking. If not you may have to connect pins 4 to 5 and 6 to 8
>> to 20 on a 25 pole RS232 socket. Nowadays PC have 9 pole plugs but my
>> personal memory-capacity is exhausted for remembering the pin-numbers
>> on thatone
>
> http://cnx.rice.edu/content/m12293/latest/
> (for example) explains serial ports and gives one set
> of pin-outs. Unfortunately various devices differ in
> whether they consider their connectors to be acting as
> DTE (terminal) or DCE (modem). (One side's "transmit"
> is the other side's "receive".) Thus sometimes a null
> modem (or a cable wired to incorporate one) is needed
> to switch around the "input" and "output" sense of the
> data and control lines. Real terminals are almost
> always DTE and real modems are always DCE. DTE should
> have male connectors and DCE female, although one finds
> screw-ups on occasion. The PC serial port should be
> male and act as DTE (terminal), which means that no
> null modem should be required *if* your existing cable
> was originally used with a real terminal. If you have
> only 9-pin serial port on the PC (no 25-pin port), then
> the simplest thing is to use a 9-pin female to 25-pin
> male serial-port adapter, sometimes found at Best Buy,
> CompUSA, or maybe Radio Shack. (You'll soon learn to
> stock up on such stuff before it totally vanishes from
> retail stores.)
>
> Since the DLV11-J (aka DLVJ1-M) doesn't provide flow
> control signals (RI, DSR, CTS as seen at the PC) you
> need to disable the "hardware handshaking" for the port
> on the PC (usually done as options in the terminal
> emulator program, e.g. HyperTerminal). Also disable
> "XON/XOFF" flow control, at least for now. (You might
> need to enable XON/XOFF support later if the simulated
> terminal display is occasionally garbled.) As a last
> resort, if the PC program requires hardware handshaking
> on the serial port, you can jumper CTS to RTS and DTR
> to DSR and RI on the PC end of the cable.
>
> It is a good idea to have an RS-232-C breakout box on
> hand so you can see the state of the various signals.
>
>>> 4. The front pannel has what appears to be a 3-pin power connector
>>> on the back. I've not seen anything that plugs into it. What goes
>>> there and do I need it?
>> Could be the power-control bus, to remoteley switch other boxes,
>> peripherals and racks.
>
> Yes, it's for a so-called "remote sense cable", used
> so that the front-panel power switch can control a
> power distribution box that is normally used in
> cabinets as the place into which all power cords
> (except the power districution box's!) are plugged.
> You don't have to use this; just plug in and use the
> power switch on the rear of the BA11-N box.
>
>>> 5. How do you turn the blessed thing on?
>
> (Make sure all the cables are secure.)
> Enable the DC ON, ENABLE/HALT, and LTC ON switches.
> (The LTC is needed by most operating systems.)
> Turn on the console terminal (fire up HyperTerminal).
> Turn on the BA11-N box's real power switch (which you
> already know about since you've been monitoring power
> supply voltages). You should see something from the
> boot ROM (console ODT) on the terminal, and the front
> panel LEDs should illuminate.