The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

AIG Reports Much Deeper Loss than Expected, (but remember better than expected) American International Group reported a quarterly loss that was
narrower than last year's shortfall but much deeper than analysts had expected. Shares dropped steeply in late trading.

Oh!!!!!!! new phrase, narrower than expected but deeper than expected

The loss included $1.2 billion of costs related to AIG's wind-down of a controversial financial products unit, almost $1 billion of interest and
costs related to a credit line from the Federal Reserve, and investment losses or writedowns of $1.6 billion.

AIG reported a $61.7 billion loss in the fourth quarter, the largest quarterly loss in corporate history.

Wait a moment this people lost more than half of the bailout money that the tax payer gave them?

And they are still allowed to exist !!!!!!!!!! what in the hell is going on.

Originally posted by marg6043Well more "better than expected news" people

It is amazing how things can look good when you present the worst possible thing.

You are in a desert and dying from dehydration. You don't open your water pouch because you think it is empty. Out of desperation you open the
pouch because you are so desperate. There is a drop of water. You begin jumping up and down and celebrate and smile as you are licking the drop of
water. You die 5 minutes later because you lost more water from celebrating than the drop.

I love your reasoning, you know now I see why in June is a new bail out heading our way.

Banks needs to raise 76 billions in new capital, that means they are still in deep caca, and then top with the AIG loses that is unacceptable all that
money been squandered on this institutions and they are still failing.

The stress tests, which are aimed at determining a bank's vulnerability to a severe downturn, also appear to conflict with the government’s
plan to sell toxic assets and new regulation over so-called too-big-to-fail institutions.

“I think the government’s policies have all run against each other,” says Paul J. Miller, banking analyst at FBR Capital Markets. “They keep
throwing things out there to see what sticks.”

Opponents view the stress tests as nothing more than a band aid on the wound of a body with massive internal bleeding—that’s where the other
programs come into play—creating a false sense of security about the industry.

After the stress tests analyst see the entire government bail out program as throwing "things" I guess paper as money now is just like toilet
one, to see if it sticks, you know if you wet the toilet paper it will stick to the ceiling and walls

Then like we say over and over nothing than a band aid on the wound that is is continuously bleeding because is has massive internal damage.

But hey that is why we have morons, I mean geniuses in Washington right?

My question to Geithner would be: Why would banks want to sell their toxic assets for a low price if changing the mark to market accounting rule
allows them to dramatically increase the "market" price of these assets? Furthermore why would any private investor buy these assets with true
confidence if the accounting rules have been changed? The suspension of M2M and the toxic asset program seems to contradict each other

Trendpost: With so much money being dumped into the system, there will be money to made ... and lost. The agile and the knowledgeable may be able
to reap "green shoots" while they're sprouted. But beware!

"The Greatest Depression" -- that we forecast would begin to set in by the end of this year -- may have been postponed, but it has not been averted.
When it does set in, it will do so with enhanced intensity and at a pace accelerated by complex financial finagling ... all under the guise of
nation-saving action. Rather than let the failing industries fail and the failed banks go bankrupt, the government is deliberately bankrupting the
nation.

The lesson to be learned from the financial crisis that began in the summer of 2007, is that nothing succeeds like failure. The greater their failure,
the bolder they become. The more they lose, the more they take. The greater the chaos, the more control they exact. The bigger they fail, the harder
we fall.

Eventually, the Electrical Revolution ended the Long Depression; just as the Semiconductor Revolution would end the Great Depression. What will end
our current depression? And will the next revolution take place in America; or in China, India or elsewhere? I wouldn't count out the inventive
spirit of America.

Well that is exactly what is going to happen as we all has seen the developments of all this crisis in the last two years since the mortgage bubble
burst.

The time line from all the failing banking institutions the cash infusions the bailouts the TARP and now the "whatever name is the new one coming on
June" it has done nothing to fix the nation but just concentrating on the financial and the Markets.

Then again how can a nation recuperate with the real issues behind the crisis has been completely forgotten.

Throwing money away for the wrong reason to the wrong places because Washington is been run by private groups links to the same financial sector that
is failing.

Darn it doesn't take a genius to see the pattern of failed policies here.

Because this government is concentrating on only one think, keeping the markets on "better than expected" notion to create a sense that
everything is bottoming out.

Hello to all of you who are the keepers of this great thread. I pop in every once in a while to see what the ATS financial minds are thinking.

I got a question, anyone notice oil inching back up lately? As of right now, it is at 57.33. What happens to this economy if oil starts to approach
$100 a barrel again this summer?

Does anyone think Oil has the legs to approach $100 this summer or is this just a little run up?

Another question:

Do any of you run your own small businesses? Do you see this thing turning around or just getting worse? I run a one man law practice. I have been
running my practice for 4.5 years now. In each of my first four years, I had growth (perhaps about 20% per year). But this year, I will be really
lucky to be flat. In reality I expect to be worse off this year compared to last.

The first four months of this year have been really crappy. Even in my line of work (criminal defense) people who would have spent the money for a
good private attorney are trying to get by with public defenders. You would have thought that criminal defense would be recession proof, I guess not.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
My question to Geithner would be: Why would banks want to sell their toxic assets for a low price if changing the mark to market accounting rule
allows them to dramatically increase the "market" price of these assets?

The rule doesn't give the banks any power to arbitrarily increase the value of the toxic assets; it wishfully handles the toxins with rubber gloves
and and throws the assets into the general supply/demand pricing scenario. In this case it's a bonafide fire sale. But the toxins should have now a
market value set by the bid/ask haggling. I'm not sure how the bid value is recorded in the books, but it could be very well listed under the Fantasy
column before the real bid is made available to the prospective buyers. I don't know what kind of value Geithner assigned to the rest of the toxins
while conducting the stress test.

In the beginning, the taxpayers were those who were "freely forced" to buy those toxins by the decision of the Congress on the advice of the
FedRes/Treasury wizards, but the taxpayers didn't like it that much, so the Congress Financial Committee started to think about how to get the
private investors join the rescue mission -- somehow. But it's all cosmetology now.

The change in the rule kind of hopes to follow the case of the European garbage odyssey where the ever-resourceful Chinese decided to buy garbage from
the Europeans to process it once again with incredible efficiency.

That's how I see it -- just my opinion.

edit:

The Financial Accounting Standards Board, an independent body that sets standards for U.S. companies, has already signaled that it will relax the
rule in April, in time for the banks' first-quarter financial reports. FASB says it will allow bankers to use "significant judgment" in valuing
assets where no active market exists.

So the active market for the toxins doesn't exist. How was the $700 billion used then? The government was buying the bad assets for some price, so
some market price had to be there. I bet that the "significant judgement" melted when the government garbage truck showed up by the bank.

It just takes some time before the banks hire some wizard kids from MTI who invent and spray the crap with perfume #2 and ship the "investment" to
Iceland once again -- via Switzerland.

Does anyone think Oil has the legs to approach $100 this summer or is this just a little run up?

Probably around 80 dollars a barrel but not 100. That is just my guess.

Do any of you run your own small businesses? Do you see this thing turning around or just getting worse? I run a one man law practice. I have
been running my practice for 4.5 years now. In each of my first four years, I had growth (perhaps about 20% per year). But this year, I will be really
lucky to be flat. In reality I expect to be worse off this year compared to last.

I own a part of a furniture business (though I do not physically run it). It is a crap shoot for us. We mostly supply hospitals...so it is a little
more recession proof. But some months we do well and others we haven't. January was bad. February was good (we got an order that was the size of
one month's worth). March was break even. April was okay. With that being said, I have not taken money out of the business this year and my
brother has taken a meager salary (he runs it) because if we took money out like normal we would cut our profit down dramatically.

Probably around 80 dollars a barrel but not 100. That is just my guess.

Well it depends... it's priced in US dollar. The more the US dollar goes down, the more oil prices will go up...

And of course now that Goldman Fraud is somehow back in business, they may rise oil using speculation like they did last time...

We'll see what information is leaked at Bilderberg this year... but it doesn't look good so far. They will be discussing either to have a short
depression but very deep, or to have a few decades long depression... and it looks more likely that they will go for the decades-long one.

Originally posted by finemanm
Hello to all of you who are the keepers of this great thread. I pop in every once in a while to see what the ATS financial minds are thinking.

I got a question, anyone notice oil inching back up lately? As of right now, it is at 57.33. What happens to this economy if oil starts to approach
$100 a barrel again this summer?

Does anyone think Oil has the legs to approach $100 this summer or is this just a little run up?

Another question:

Do any of you run your own small businesses? Do you see this thing turning around or just getting worse? I run a one man law practice. I have been
running my practice for 4.5 years now. In each of my first four years, I had growth (perhaps about 20% per year). But this year, I will be really
lucky to be flat. In reality I expect to be worse off this year compared to last.

The first four months of this year have been really crappy. Even in my line of work (criminal defense) people who would have spent the money for a
good private attorney are trying to get by with public defenders. You would have thought that criminal defense would be recession proof, I guess not.

Within five years oil will be $300 dollars a barell - here is a clue as to how much it is valued - the russians buiding nuclear powered stations to
excavate it from the arctic circle...peak oil.

Another better way of looking at this is do you think ever single machine of war will be replaced with some battery operated hybrud solar electric
daisy ? How long do you think it would take to replace the global fleet of military machines -

No - oil is going to go through the roof - (but not before then end of the year I agree)....

A Slightly Better April Jobs Report Is Expected, predicted unemployment 8.9 better than expected from 8.5. in April, ( got to love the wording
here),

Employers are letting up a bit on the mass layoffs they resorted to earlier this year to cope with the recession, but the unemployment rate is
climbing because many businesses remain wary of hiring given all the economic and financial uncertainties.

The Labor Department on Friday is slated to release a report expected to show that a net total of 620,000 jobs were lost in April.

If analysts are correct, the figure — while still big — would be an improvement from March's 663,000 job losses and mark the fewest reductions
since November.

Stephen Friedman, chairman of the board at the Federal Reserve bank of New York, abruptly resigned Thursday, days after The Wall Street Journal
pointed out his approval of a request by Goldman Sachs was in violation of policy because of his considerable holdings in Goldman shares.

Send that son of a gun to JAIL.

That's really nice people that are in government... Madoff and Friedman... creator of NASDAQ and head of the NY FED... just like was Geithner.

~
The government said the U.S. economy lost 539,000 jobs in April, less than economists expected. The report also said the unemployment rates
rose to the highest in 26 years - 8.9% -- from 8.5%, matching forecasts. The previous two month's losses were revised higher.

~
April's loss of 539,000 jobs was the smallest decline since October's 380,000. However, job losses in February and March were revised higher by
66,000.

~
Since the recession began in December 2007, payrolls have fallen by 5.7 million, or 4.1% of payrolls, the largest percentage decline since the 1958
recession.

Hmmm...dang...that didn't last long...back to, "less than expected"

And I wonder how "Jr" likes scrubbing the toilets after his dad laid-off all the "hired hands"

And see how they keep *updating* prior months? or should I say downgrading?

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