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While episode 3 was so bad it's terrible, this episode was so bad it's good.

Well, not exactly. I liked the Tomoe parts; we got to know something about her and found it her parents are bothering her about marriage. Even though she's not that old, in anime she's an old woman apparently. But that's just me, at my age people are marrying and I just don't give a damn about that kinda thing.

The pervert troop? Aww they didn't come to assassinate people. But of course, they must handle the rowdy customers, because the customer was always right. I didn't think tolerating their peeping was part of the job. This is a hot springs , not a brothel. Also, police do not exist in this anime.

Of course, they got would they deserved, and got to saw some ass.... just not the right ass. Defeated they were.

Lack of Minko and humilating Jinomaru? Sure. I could have used some more Minko getting owned in the water ^_^ , but then she'd be a poor man's Natsuki. Sparkle much?

Fun episode. I'll stamp it with a 6.5/10

Also, cocks. "Drop your cocks...."

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The greatest lie is to convince people that the world is a dangerous place and a zero sum game where you are never safe. Distrust others and fight them for scraps, while the real enemy that spreads this lie takes the whole pie.Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)MyAnimeList || Reviews

I defended episode 3 as a relief from the drama. But now getting a bit of drama is a relief. And I'm afraid I just didn't find the "comedy" in ep7 funny at all. We all laugh at different things. Tomoe was great, however.

Agreed. I was one of the people that didn't really laugh at the comedy. I did however, did laugh when that "sparkling" line was brought out again, taking a jab at episode 3.

It's become?It's always been that way.
The very first scene with Minko was already a comic one.

Oh c'mon now. Maybe we weren't supposed to take the scene as something atkin to an actual death threat, but it clearly put Ohana in an uncomfortable situation where the environment around her was very unwelcoming. She was crying at the end of the episode after all these frustrations!

Oh c'mon now. Maybe we weren't supposed to take the scene as something atkin to an actual death threat, but it clearly put Ohana in an uncomfortable situation where the environment around her was very unwelcoming.

And it was nearly all played for laughs

The meeting with Minko (her facial expression is way too over the top for me to take it seriously) ,Nako (trying and failing to start a conversation,it was funny),Grandma (I got a nice laugh out of the bucket being thrown),the uncle (the cliché "i run into you" kind of introduction),Tomoe (gossiping like crazy as soon as they meet)

Only genuine dramatic intro with a character was with Tooru who yelled at her and was quite harsh,and of course later on there was nothing funny about the whole slap scene.Which was the source of Ohana's cries more than anything.

I guess this show could be better tied together across episodes, and it probably could handle its various conflicts better and read the mood of its scenes better, as Reckoner pointed out. Also, I'm not the hugest fan of the "this episode is about X side-character" plot layout.

But you know, I had so much fun watching this episode I don't really mind any of that. Given the fact that the goals of the episode were to develop Tomoe's character and have comedy, I think that it did a great job at both. I laughed out loud at least twice. And those sparkly eyes stole my heart away...

I have to join the dissent on this one, I'm afraid. Weak, labored comedy that was only funny on rare occasions. I wasn't willing to go so far as "identity crisis" before this ep, but it seems to be a valid complaint now. This one was marginally less offensive than the third episode, but still almost a total loss for me. I don't mind interludes of broad comedy in a normally character driven show, but two episodes out of seven devoted to it is iffy - and the fact that neither was very funny is the clincher. At least episode 3 had a redeeming 90 seconds at the end - all we got here was a tantalizing preview.

I have to join the dissent on this one, I'm afraid. Weak, labored comedy that was only funny on rare occasions. I wasn't willing to go so far as "identity crisis" before this ep, but it seems to be a valid complaint now. This one was marginally less offensive than the third episode, but still almost a total loss for me. I don't mind interludes of broad comedy in a normally character driven show, but two episodes out of seven devoted to it is iffy - and the fact that neither was very funny is the clincher. At least episode 3 had a redeeming 90 seconds at the end - all we got here was a tantalizing preview.

I have to disagree with the highlighted portion in your statement. The scenes regarding Tomoe and her "marriage proposals" and her thinking about going back home were some very nice bits to the episode.

I have to disagree with that the bit. The bits regarding Tomoe and her "marriage proposals" and her thinking about going back home were some very nice bits to the episode.

That's certainly valid, if you felt that way - clearly lots of folks did. For me, Tomoe is neither interesting or important enough to dedicate an entire episode to - at least based on this week. I never felt any of the events had any emotional impact because they weren't earned. No groundwork was laid for what happened with Tomoe - it just dropped out of the sky. I just don't feel like the first six episodes gave us any reason to care all that much about Tomoe one way or the other.

As TinyRedLeaf coined it, the show is basically designed to be a "sentimental favourite". Which to me means a combination of lighthearted and emotionally poignant. Pretty much what we've been getting all along, and also what the previews suggested the show was going to be. I'm not sure if there's a more technical label that can be applied though.

This week's emotionally poignant moment was a bit different from in some other weeks since it wasn't melancholic. But seriously, what else do you call the bit with Tomoe, Ohana, and Nako near the end if not a crowning moment of heartwarming?

Now that I'm done with my gushy fanboy praise, I do have to note that upon reflection, this episode suffered from the same flaw as episode 5: it was too predictable. As soon as Tomoe announced her intention to try and get herself fired, I could see how things were probably going to play out - she was going to make the LARPer's stay fun. This contrasts with the more chaotic nature of the first four episodes (episode 6 wasn't predictable but I found Beanman keeping the outfits around a bit too convenient). Still loving the show, but I can't help but note the flaws.

Finally, Tomoe's idea of getting fired rather than quitting reminds me a lot of the inspiration for the character Wally in Dilbert: according to my dad, who heard the strip's author speak at a conference, the character was based on an engineer the author knew who tried to get into the bottom 10% of employees at his company so he could be laid off with a good severance package... and failed to get into the bottom 10%.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian_Enzo

I just don't feel like the first six episodes gave us any reason to care all that much about Tomoe one way or the other.

I've never really felt Tomoe was going to be an important character, but I certainly was happy to hear she would be the focus of an episode... she's one of the more colourful and charming characters in the show to me.

People's mileage with characters vary. It looks like that Hanasaku Iroha is going to explore each of the characters it has presented (and possibly introduce some new ones later on) at some point. Whilst one person couldn't careless about a character like Tomoe, another person might.

Me personally? I don't really care about Nako, as I'm not fond of the shy girl type, but I do respect that there's a fanbase for her. I respect that, therefore she is entitled to her own arc at some point.

As TinyRedLeaf coined it, the show is basically designed to be a "sentimental favourite". Which to me means a combination of lighthearted and emotionally poignant. Pretty much what we've been getting all along, and also what the previews suggested the show was going to be. I'm not sure if there's a more technical label that can be applied though.

This week's emotionally poignant moment was a bit different from in some other weeks since it wasn't melancholic. But seriously, what else do you call the bit with Tomoe, Ohana, and Nako near the end if not a crowning moment of heartwarming?

That's certainly fine if you felt it was heartwarming - to me it was a hackneyed and totally false moment. If you're going to dedicate the bulk of the episode to utterly preposterous physical comedy, it's hard to throw in what's supposed to be a heart-tugger at the end and expect it to be anything but jarring. I'm fine with mixing drama and humor - I think this show has done it in every episode (which some folks clearly don't). The problem lies in trying to buy emotional impact without doing the grunt work in earning it. Humor can quite effectively be used to build an ep to an emotional crescendo - I just didn't feel this episode was remotely effective in doing so.

Would it have worked marginally better if the comedy was actually funny? Sure, a little. But other than the "Drop your cocks!" moment it all fell flat for me - broad in the worst sense of the term. Clumsy, artificial and totally discordant with the rest of the series. And the gag about the employee trying to get themselves fired has been done to death, and often much more creatively than this.

I'm not going to stop enjoying the show - at it's best I think it achieves greatness, and I really love it at those times. I'm just at the point of accepting that there are going to be clunkers thrown in every few weeks.

Of all the criticisms I've seen leveled against this anime, "identity crisis" is the one that resonates the most with me.

Of Hana-Saku Iroha's seven episodes, I found six enjoyable (if not very enjoyable), and I would have found even Episode Three enjoyable if in a completely different anime that was designed primarily to lampoon and spoof. So each episode is good (if not great) in a vacuum.

But there is a certain constant shifting in mood and tone that I see in this anime, and it can be a bit jarring and leave you wondering what exactly the anime is aiming for overall. There's also scenes in which the anime arguably tries to do too much all in one go - such as trying to be both comedic *and* dramatic at the same time. And that's often very tricky.

To use a comparison that you'll probably get, 0utf0xZer0, and which acejem recently shared with me, I see Hana-Saku Iroha starting to have identity issues approaching what Angel Beats! suffered from.

My own view is that there's kind of a sliding scale of drama and comedy, and that this is most pronounced in a slice of life or romance anime.

From my perspective, this anime has ran the full gamut of that sliding scale, with episodes that felt much more dramatic than comedic to me (Episodes 1 and 2), episodes that felt almost entirely comedic to me (Episodes 3 and 7), and episodes right smack dab in the middle (Episodes 4 through 6).

After Episode 6 I felt that this anime had established a good identity for itself and had finally hit its groove by finding and establishing a nice balance between comedy and drama.

But the balance felt slightly off to me in this episode. I still enjoyed this episode, and I felt that the idea behind it was very good, but it does feel a bit tonally different to me than Episodes 4 through 6.

Hana-Saku Iroha is still a show that I definitely look forward to watching each and every week, and like Guardian Enzo said, the potential for greatness in future episodes remains. But I can't help but wonder what it would be like if it was a bit more like True Tears or Anohana.

But I can't help but wonder what it would be like if it was a bit more like True Tears or Anohana.

I expect that (nearly) the whole second half will be like that though,if it isn't and continues to do this switching back and forth between crazyness and seriousness then sure I'll join in and say it's like Angel Beats.

I expect that (nearly) the whole second half will be like that though,if it isn't and continues to do this switching back and forth between crazyness and seriousness then sure I'll join in and say it's like Angel Beats.

You could well be right, and I hope that you are.

Truth be told, episodes like this one are pretty much inevitable in a two-cour slice of life anime. If not for Episode 3, I'd probably just say that this episode is one of those inevitable comedic side-story ones that focuses on a specific supporting cast character, and be happy that it's good for what it is.

Right now, I'm a bit torn between the two sides of the discussion on this thread. I see where both sides are coming from.

The term "cautious optimism" probably sums up my take towards this anime the best right now.

Hmm, drama and comedy isn't something that is mutually exclusive. I think regardless of the show's bent, it should be able to excecute a funny scene as well as a dramatic scene. In many cases, Angel Beats and Hana Saku Iroha have/had this half-ass approach which makes both sides weaker, though Hana Saku iroha is managing it better-- Angel Beats is almost 13 different shows in 13 episodes.

For example, Evangelion for the most part is considered a serious show by many people. But it also had comedic parts that were hilarious and could have been part of any sitcom. And they were no small parts-- there was entire episodes of this. But it never really compromised its own narrative, and you could still laugh while taking the characters seriously.

Or how about Haruhi Suzumiya? Most of the series is comedy and not to be taken seriously. But the serious moments that do happen still are effective and it doesn't feel like you're watching a diffrent show.

That is what I feel is the identity crises problem. I shouldn't feel like I'm watching a different show. It's not because I can't stand fanservice. It's not because I don't like comedy. It's not because I don't like random humor. But it has to mesh well. Otherwise, how is it different from the many coming of age/slice of life shows out there? Now I'm not saying the show must aspire to be exceptional, but then again shouldn't we aim a bit higher?

Just look over at Ano Hana for mixing comedy with drama.

__________________

The greatest lie is to convince people that the world is a dangerous place and a zero sum game where you are never safe. Distrust others and fight them for scraps, while the real enemy that spreads this lie takes the whole pie.Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)MyAnimeList || Reviews

Truth be told, episodes like this one are pretty much inevitable in a two-cour slice of life anime. If not for Episode 3, I'd probably just say that this episode is one of those inevitable comedic side-story ones that focuses on a specific supporting cast character, and be happy that it's good for what it is.

Right now, I'm a bit torn between the two sides of the discussion on this thread. I see where both sides are coming from.

The term "cautious optimism" probably sums up my take towards this anime the best right now.

I can live with cautious optimism to describe my state of mind about HanaIro - though it feels like "trepidation" should be mixed in there somewhere...

I certainly agree that this episode would worry me much less if it hadn't been for #3. Fool me twice, though... We'll see. Again, though - discordant tonal shifts aside, these eps wouldn't bother me nearly so much if they'd actually been funny. Maybe if you're going to throw in a slapstick episode once a month, you should hire a writer who actually writes good slapstick...

Drama and comedy aren't mutually exclusive at all. In fact, this show proved it could mix them very well in the first two episodes. The flashback to Ohana's mother forgetting to go to her school and Ohana's subsequent hate omelet was strongly written and directed. There are tons of chuckle moments scattered throughout the first two episodes, despite them being more focused on drama. But all this great execution mysteriously vanished at the third episode and has only returned in fleeting moments since. Lately it feels like the creative team thinks it can just do whatever it wants with the show and it'll be good. Honestly, it feels like they're not even checking these episodes themselves after they're finished. It's extremely frustrating because we know what they're capable of when they actually try to be good.

I enjoyed this episode, I thought it was funny, but like other people mentioned, it feels like HanaSaku has an identity problem. As a standalone, this episode is great but because HanaSaku keeps shifting tones between seriousness and wackiness, I can't help but feel a little frustrated.