If you or someone you love is having difficulty & would like to speak to someone who has been through a similar experience, who understands, & will respect your need for privacy and confidentiality, contact OSISS toll-free at 1-800-883-6094. You can locate the peer closest to you by logging on to www.osiss.ca, clicking on “Contact us” link & then choosing the “Peer” or “Family Support Network”. Help IS out there.

Or it could be left for times people get on the test. That would save looking through 35 pages of a generic thread. Possibly resulting in better search results as well. (In acknowledgement that I can sound sarcastic, this isn't meant that way.)

Somewhat slow although I am 55 now, and still faster than some of the 30 somethings, at our unit if you match or beat the CO's times it will earn you some short days, an incentive that has been working well so far, I am nowhere near to earning any days, I can live with that.

The reasons you are not allowed to run the shuttles while loaded are to prevent injury and mimic the pace at which you would actually move defensive stores/ammo/rations/luggage (for the Air Force) for an extended period.

I know most people find the new FORCE test easy, but still interesting to know how most people preform on each step of the test.

I suspect that what most people find easy in their 20's and 30's, is not as easy when they are in their 40's and 50's. Also, what is relatively easy for a 180 pound person is not going to be as easy for someone who weighs 100 pounds and is moving/lifting (e.g. Sandbags, Drag) a much larger proportion of their body weight.

49 years old and without sweating (seriously, without having to raise my heart rate much at all, which believe me is much more a statement on how easy the test is than how fit I am), and DEFINITELY not needing to shower after the test, I scored bronze. The level of output required of a damn near 50 year old man with a completely average level of fitness is about equivalent to rotating my tires, while sprinting into the kitchen for a new beer in between each tire, lol. 5'10", 180 lbs. Frankly, for the last three years, given how much time we get to do each stage, my aim has been to not get hurt during the test, so I have been slow and deliberate in all my actions. But I still scored bronze. And I am a cubicle rat who walks for exercise, haven't jogged or hit the gym all year. WTF? With the incentives, next year I will work my *** off just to see how fast I can go in the various stands, although I will still go slowly during the drag, so I don't trip up and fail on a technicality. So I guess in a sense the incentives will motivate me to work out a little harder over the next year, simply out of curiosity to see how high a score I could get with a bit of effort. I'm sure there are others who will try harder too, for various reasons, and the overall health of the CAF could (could) inch up a little bit due to the incentives.

the test seems like more of a test on how well you can follow instruction considering it holds little physical value...

I disagree completely. These tests are design to provide a decent approximation of actual tasks/movements you can reasonably expected to perform in the course of your duties, and as such, they hold significant physical value. These are not physical fitness tests!. We are not measuring who is the fastest, strongest, fittest person in the forces. These are results-based tests, whose actions and minimum times are designed to determine whether or not you can perform the physical aspects of a career in the CAF.

Off the top of my head, I can think of examples where I performed actual military tasks that are pretty much identical to FORCE test activities.

1. Dragging an unconscious member who is full fire fighting equipment down the flats during a fire = Sand Bag Drag2. Hauling compressed air diving tanks up and down from the dive locker to the upper decks - Intermittent Loaded/Un-Loaded Shuttle3. Storing ship (if you're the one near the pallets or on the ladders) - Sand Bags4. We don't ever run on ship, so we don't really have an equivalent to the 20m Rushes....

Now, since adding in the incentive levels, we can now measure both minimum capability as well as assess fitness level. We just ran our FORCE test and some fairly fit people pushed themselves really hard and still only attained silver.

Just for comparison:

28yo, Male, 5'7", 185lbsRushes: 33secSand Bag Lift: 57 sec (this destroyed my quads and gave me trouble on the next two tests)Intermittent Loaded/Unloaded shuttle: 2min 54 sec (our fastest of the day was 2:31, and I definitely could have done better. I was only "running" for the unloaded part and not "sprinting")Sand-Bag Drag: 15 sec

So our fitness standard should be based off of 4 tasks that a member may perform sometime in their career?

A fitness standard should be to evaluate a persons fitness level. Especially if it is a national level test. Just because a member can lift a sandbag up and down and run for 20m. Does that mean the person is now fit enough to perform tasks of an infanteer? Does this equate to pepper potting for km's, carrying 50 pounds of ffo and 50 pounds of a ruck. Digging a trench, carrying a support weapon?

Did the test equate to 4 tasks you performed on a ship? Sure why not, does it equate to the 1000+ other careers in the forces? Probably not.

If they want to hold a fitness standard for all members of the military, it should be based SOLELY on fitness levels, and avoid trying to relate things. Fitness is not rocket science, it's fitness

So our fitness standard should be based off of 4 tasks that a member may perform sometime in their career?

A fitness standard should be to evaluate a persons fitness level. Especially if it is a national level test. Just because a member can lift a sandbag up and down and run for 20m. Does that mean the person is now fit enough to perform tasks of an infanteer? Does this equate to pepper potting for km's, carrying 50 pounds of ffo and 50 pounds of a ruck. Digging a trench, carrying a support weapon?

Did the test equate to 4 tasks you performed on a ship? Sure why not, does it equate to the 1000+ other careers in the forces? Probably not.

If they want to hold a fitness standard for all members of the military, it should be based SOLELY on fitness levels, and avoid trying to relate things. Fitness is not rocket science, it's fitness

Why the heck should the vittler or the pilot have to prove himself fit enough to perform the tasks of an Infanteer? He isn't one. The only CAF members who are Infanteers --- are Infanteers.

The FORCE test is the measure of the minimum standard required to perform the minimal common tasks of the entire CAF (90% of whom are not Infanteers), not the Infantry.

What you are talking about are Trade Fitness Standards etc. If the FORCE isn't good enough for the Infantry, then get out there and devise a damn test FOR the Infantry. If the fire fighters can do so, surely to hell they can too and quit their whining about non-Infanteers not living up to Infanteer standards. Fack, even the Cdn Army has managed to do so for it's environment. Get friggin' on with it.

If you or someone you love is having difficulty & would like to speak to someone who has been through a similar experience, who understands, & will respect your need for privacy and confidentiality, contact OSISS toll-free at 1-800-883-6094. You can locate the peer closest to you by logging on to www.osiss.ca, clicking on “Contact us” link & then choosing the “Peer” or “Family Support Network”. Help IS out there.

So our fitness standard should be based off of 4 tasks that a member may perform sometime in their career?

A fitness standard should be to evaluate a persons fitness level. Especially if it is a national level test. Just because a member can lift a sandbag up and down and run for 20m. Does that mean the person is now fit enough to perform tasks of an infanteer? Does this equate to pepper potting for km's, carrying 50 pounds of ffo and 50 pounds of a ruck. Digging a trench, carrying a support weapon?

Did the test equate to 4 tasks you performed on a ship? Sure why not, does it equate to the 1000+ other careers in the forces? Probably not.

If they want to hold a fitness standard for all members of the military, it should be based SOLELY on fitness levels, and avoid trying to relate things. Fitness is not rocket science, it's fitness

You're obviously missing the point. Infantry is not the only trade in this Queen's military, and who else besides the infantry is pepper potting?

Besides, like I said, this is not a fitness test (at least not in the way you're reading it). It's not meant to evaluate your maximum potential, or to accurately measure your maximum physical exertion level. The FORCE test is a test designed to evaluate whether or not your are physically capable of performing a core set of physical tasks. A member's ability to do any of the other tasks, such as pepper potting, hammering in ground-spikes for concertina wire, digging a trench, etc. can be left to the individual schools to determine whether or not their students are capable of performing. 90% of the trades in the military are never going to have their people ruck-marching, pepper potting, running 10km, digging trenches, or carrying support weapons. So why would we, as a minimum entry/maintenance standard, ask them to prove that they can do those tasks?

If you want to join/stay in the CAF, pass the FORCE test. If you want to make it as a MARS Officer/RMS Clerk/AVN Tech; pass the FORCE test. If you want to make it as an Infanteer; Pass the FORCE test, and demonstrate during your trades training that you are physically capable of doing all the physically demanding tasks that you listed above.

Poacher: There's a long thread discussing the "why" of FORCE; this one is to present results. If you want to vent and display your ignorance of what FORCE and is not (and does and does not measure), that thread would be a better fit.

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Lets revert back to soldier first. There is a reason why every Army trade does an SQ or BMQ-L or what ever the heck it is called. They all learn section attacks.

I am not using infantry as the end all be all, I am just using it as the best example I can give as that is the trade I know the best.

My stance stands, as a SOLDIER within the CAF, physical fitness should be important, I am just curious as to why the bar is set so astronomically low. Is it simply just a way to weed out those who are injured? Is it a stepping stone on the assumption that members who struggle will take it amongst themselves to improve their own level? Maybe... will those members do so I think we can all agree that's a 50/50.

All I am trying to say is in my personal opinion, I think the force test is too easy, I wasn't a big fan of the express test either but I think it was a better system.

Now lets all do some tactical breathing and calm down on the whole thing before some people start giving themselves a heart attack

I disagree completely. These tests are design to provide a decent approximation of actual tasks/movements you can reasonably expected to perform in the course of your duties, and as such, they hold significant physical value. These are not physical fitness tests!. We are not measuring who is the fastest, strongest, fittest person in the forces. These are results-based tests, whose actions and minimum times are designed to determine whether or not you can perform the physical aspects of a career in the CAF.

Off the top of my head, I can think of examples where I performed actual military tasks that are pretty much identical to FORCE test activities.

1. Dragging an unconscious member who is full fire fighting equipment down the flats during a fire = Sand Bag Drag2. Hauling compressed air diving tanks up and down from the dive locker to the upper decks - Intermittent Loaded/Un-Loaded Shuttle3. Storing ship (if you're the one near the pallets or on the ladders) - Sand Bags4. We don't ever run on ship, so we don't really have an equivalent to the 20m Rushes....

Now, since adding in the incentive levels, we can now measure both minimum capability as well as assess fitness level. We just ran our FORCE test and some fairly fit people pushed themselves really hard and still only attained silver.

Just for comparison:

28yo, Male, 5'7", 185lbsRushes: 33secSand Bag Lift: 57 sec (this destroyed my quads and gave me trouble on the next two tests)Intermittent Loaded/Unloaded shuttle: 2min 54 sec (our fastest of the day was 2:31, and I definitely could have done better. I was only "running" for the unloaded part and not "sprinting")Sand-Bag Drag: 15 sec

They left out an important one:

Killing someone with a bayonet, at night, while running uphill in the rain loaded with full fighting order following a grueling approach march on no sleep and less food to restore the front following the first gas attack in history.

17 year old male. I admit that there was more I could have done to prepare, but I'm just relived I passed (When I went to the armoury to hand in my transcripts and whatnot people didn't hide their eyeing me up, chuckles, etc. I seriously questioned whether I could get through the process or not). I'm sure that my times for the next FORCE test will improve. Here are my times in order of completion: