Anyone on the forum familiar with SEDM and Family Guardian? Both sites, run by the same guy, are packed full of excellent articles, papers, research and forms to communicate with that whole government apparatus if that is your inclination.

Seattle Scotsman wrote:Anyone on the forum familiar with SEDM and Family Guardian? Both sites, run by the same guy, are packed full of excellent articles, papers, research and forms to communicate with that whole government apparatus if that is your inclination.

@hoi.polloi - Somewhere, something has to be sent to someone with the hope that some 'traction' can be achieved.

Without sounding like I am trying to dodge the issue, it would help me and may help others if we could decide what was sent to who and in which format.

I live in a region under a regime that, whilst in no way oppressive - though this may sound contradictory - does not tolerate 'rocking of the boat' due to its tourism/travel self-image being of paramount importance.

As such, I would humbly suggest that any action undertaken by an individual here would not be appreciated and would suffer consequences, indirectly at best, though that does not mean that action cannot be undertaken in my 'homeland'.

On one hand we want the 'individual' to stand up, take action and 'be counted' but if effort is directed in a 'scattergun' approach, it will barely register despite the effort undertaken.

You've mentioned letters to the IRS and have provided a template which is a good idea for those under the jurisdiction of the IRS, however this does not necessarily help those not affected by the IRS.

Could we not see from other members on the forum if there is a consensus of who/what/how best to tackle this issue?

I would think that most countries have a Reuters agency or other such news agency and would it not be possible to start 'bombarding' their offices with actual post/mail rather than electronic email?

If not Reuters, then CNN, RT, Al Jazeera, BBC?

It is not that I have any faith in any of the above agencies but more to the point that people could see that even after having tens, hundreds or even thousands of letters sent almost in unison from all corners of the world, that there is/isn't a mention of such from that agency which, would wake the people up to the fact that they are 'flogging a dead horse' with journalism/journalists and another approach would be required.

Ironically, my 'fear' would be that there would be mention of such action by the agency, people would think they had secured a victory and would then ease off pushing for more exposure.

Another suggestion would be to select an MP of the UK who was/was not sceptical of a certain issue which we could decide to concentrate on - I am UK-centric having grown up there but am using UK due to this medium being in English and also having corresponded with an MP, on a separate issue and receiving prompt response, so I know that the system can 'work' to some degree.

The MP who is 'favourable' towards opening up some sort of investigation would, hopefully, voice their support readily and further 'traction' could be gained and more people's interests piqued.

The alternative would be to select an MP who was not 'favourable' to such action but would then almost be obligated in explaining why they had not actioned/mentioned the amount of post/mail they had received irrespective if such post/mail was not from one of their constituents.

The only other option would be to run a fairly inexpensive electronic campaign to have a date selected [let's say] 18 months from now on which day people of the world would be asked to boycott a certain company or its product due to its connection with certain events i.e. the Cola wagon in front of the collapsed towers on 11/Sep'01 .

It would be interesting to see if people got on board, irrespective that some would be doing it for a 'laugh' at the Cola company's expense, and also interesting to see if said company began offering 'incentives' around the same period irrespective that they acknowledged the said action or not.

In answer to your question [challenge ] I would like to do something but would humbly suggest we establish our strategy/target first.

Seattle Scotsman wrote:Anyone on the forum familiar with SEDM and Family Guardian? Both sites, run by the same guy, are packed full of excellent articles, papers, research and forms to communicate with that whole government apparatus if that is your inclination.

I myself have been fighting w/ them for many years with varying success. I have a "normal" job (SSN, paychecks instead of cash, etc) like most everyone and eventually the goons go over your head and use their scare tactics on the company to start garnishing your pay. If you happen to be an independent contractor, as my close friend is, you can successfully defeat them as they have no easy choke point over you. My friend indeed has gotten an official Closing Notice from IRS after they tried to collect on several hundred thousand dollars of claimed back taxes. Is this the typical outcome? Probably not, but the more people out there fighting back, the more un-sustainable their system will become.

I couldn't in good conscience advise someone to pursue the tactics laid out at SEDM and Famguardian, since the enemy doesn't really have to play by the rules, but both are excellent resources for dealing w/ our friends in Washington in language that gets the job done.

I myself have been fighting w/ them for many years with varying success. I have a "normal" job (SSN, paychecks instead of cash, etc) like most everyone and eventually the goons go over your head and use their scare tactics on the company to start garnishing your pay. If you happen to be an independent contractor, as my close friend is, you can successfully defeat them as they have no easy choke point over you. My friend indeed has gotten an official Closing Notice from IRS after they tried to collect on several hundred thousand dollars of claimed back taxes. Is this the typical outcome? Probably not, but the more people out there fighting back, the more un-sustainable their system will become.

I couldn't in good conscience advise someone to pursue the tactics laid out at SEDM and Famguardian, since the enemy doesn't really have to play by the rules, but both are excellent resources for dealing w/ our friends in Washington in language that gets the job done.

Thanks for the straight answer. Would you care to start a new topic about taxation, so we don't derail this topic? I don't think there is one yet, although it is such an important topic. And for the topic at hand, do you have something in mind that could get the job done?

I'll try to convince my aforementioned buddy into joining Cluesforum and contributing to a taxation thread, which I can start if you'd like. He has some really good experience and is a real self taught expert in case law.

As for letter writing to the feds, I have no experience. I don't wish to discourage others in doing so, but I'm pretty far down the cynic path to send any letters.

I'll try to convince my aforementioned buddy into joining Cluesforum and contributing to a taxation thread, which I can start if you'd like. He has some really good experience and is a real self taught expert in case law.

As for letter writing to the feds, I have no experience. I don't wish to discourage others in doing so, but I'm pretty far down the cynic path to send any letters.

Is a good resource for sending letters/faxes/emails to members of congress, but doesn't touch on the topics dealt w/ on this forum.

Welcome, and do please introduce yourself in the INTRODUCE YOURSELF thread. Thanks for your frank answers. The Downsided DC looks like a more subtle version of the Article V movement happening now: The Convention of States Project. It's an interesting effort, and even though I have of course a lot of personal thoughts about it, I would not discourage people from at least educating themselves about what Article V "guarantees" to the American right to resize the Fed.

I'd like to point out that being a cynic has in no way stopped me from being active about informing people of their rights. I suggest anybody who feels cynicism inside not allow that character trait to convince them they must also be defeatist. They are separate attitudes.

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Back on topic, pov, I respect your position and your careful and thoughtful process of trying to figure out a way to do something with others rather than on your own.

After much of my own careful and thoughtful consideration, I have decided that it's safe and warranted to begin doing things on one's own. I would encourage you to look at it from that perspective.

I live in a region under a regime that, whilst in no way oppressive - though this may sound contradictory - does not tolerate 'rocking of the boat' due to its tourism/travel self-image being of paramount importance.

When you say that, it reminds me of pretty much every country I've ever visited that wasn't an imperial State like the UK, USA, China, etc. Most countries rely on tourism in order to participate in the Statist hegemony. As such, I sympathize with and understand your concern.

Still, please do consider not paralyzing yourself on writing someone for another year because you want to do so in a huge crowd. We are pioneers on this after all, and we are beginning what will motivate others. If I am not enough to motivate you, I completely understand. It's a problem I've always had in life. People simply do not listen to me even if I have good information and I present it in a very large variety of ways. They do not become excited. Even my Vicsim Report at best had people shaking their heads and laughing at the absurdity. But motivation to do something about it? Where was that? Simon is better at motivating people to perhaps participate. I hope that if you are not phased by my reasonings in this thread, Simon's participation will give you another angle to look at it and consider participation.

In the mean time, use your imagination! Analyze whom you think it would be safe to contact, who is obliged to listen and not retaliate by the nature of their position, do not be afraid for no reason, and use (as always) your own best judgement. It is about strategy, absolutely, and each person will have their own. I think that if you gave it some thought, it would occur to you which is the best "authority" to approach first and how it would not put you in some undue position.

I think the point of this action (or "exercise" if one must see it as useless as that) is to begin the process of creating a public record to inspire others who are presently in your shoes: hesitant, wanting to help, concerned about repercussions (that quite honestly, don't ever seem to come) but wanting some proof or assurance that doing something will result in something immediately gratifying.

I can't quite offer that, but I think what we can offer is a small start with big language that is backed up by enormously pertinent proofs that we've presented for everyone and which remain perfectly unchallenged.

Just look at what our site offers in terms of evidence and proof. It's strong. Now just who can you think of that would be interested in that? Who should be interested in that, and how can we document that we're letting them know?

When we're done, we will hopefully have compiled a very convincing body of evidence that (at least for anyone amongst those we target with our peaceful letters) they were informed/warned/told to address it.

Remember that one of the biggest resistances people have to letting go of authority is acknowledging that the authority doesn't care about the most important issues of our time. I think this effort could make peaceful anarchists of many individuals who suddenly recognize how much authority they have over their own lives. Does that make sense?

I'd like to point out that being a cynic has in no way stopped me from being active about informing people of their rights. I suggest anybody who feels cynicism inside not allow that character trait to convince them they must also be defeatist. They are separate attitudes.

I'm not defeatist, I just don't think that approach is most useful. Again, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from letter writing at all.

I'd like to point out that being a cynic has in no way stopped me from being active about informing people of their rights. I suggest anybody who feels cynicism inside not allow that character trait to convince them they must also be defeatist. They are separate attitudes.

I'm not defeatist, I just don't think that approach is most useful. Again, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from letter writing at all.

That's fair. It's not most useful, so it shouldn't be done. I appreciate your vigor and diligence.

In my opinion, after going about trying to spread this information in a variety of (perhaps ineffectual) ways, I have come to the conclusion that this one is at least as useful as some others; it highlights and enhances the other efforts, such as videos, outreach to individuals and clear, "academic", digital documentation. For example, if Bill Kaysing hadn't documented some of his printed exchanges with people, his book We Never Went to the Moon would have been less interesting, and perhaps even naggingly incomplete.

Let us not underestimate how enlightening it is to the average person to read official documentation from their trusted officials which reveals any level of their incompetence or understanding of issues such as those we discuss.

As for the usefulness of the numerous links you've sent, they are intriguing. It would be very interesting to me if we had direct links to images of actual letters between various parties vis-à-vis the IRS exchanges or exchanges with other departments.

Again, let's have a separate thread for protesting/boycotting/etc. taxes. This thread will focus on specifically telling officials that the Vicsim "wall of tears" programs and other PsyOps won't be tolerated. But definitely thanks for sharing where you're at. It's appreciated.

Continuing on the general course of expected civilian actions, I am starting to take an earlier idea and contact whistleblower services in various departments. In any case, without any responses at all, this exercise would seem to demonstrate there isn't actually anyone in these offices, and the departments begin to resemble Mafia-style store fronts.

Oh, to have true transparency in a government that claims it wants it.

------------------------------------------------------------
Email: hoi.polloi@mail.com
Type of complaint: Civil
Center Affected: All
Program Affected:
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Essentially, it can't be boiled down to a particular event because it has to do with the large scale practice of manufacturing, doctoring and fabricating imagery and photos said to be evidence of NASA's accomplishments in space since at least the Apollo missions.

Because of the lack of photographic record of actual NASA accomplishments, and because whistle blower Bill Kaysing (of Rocketdyne) has not been formally acknowledged by NASA, nor thanked for his exposure of the falsified Apollo mission documents, the public is left to conclude that NASA personnel are inept or they don't care that fraud has been occurring within the organization for decades.

Do something morally correct about it: change NASA for the better, admit the falseness of the photographic record and explain why it was necessary. Explain it in a formal public statement of some kind.

The feigned celebrations of fantasy imagery must be put to an end. NASA may also have to be reported to the Treasury Department and other government bodies.

Today, I have also tried submitting an issue directly to the Treasury and wherein it may be unassociated with the IRS. The reason I say "tried" is because I am not sure if anything actually sent, no confirmation message appeared, and they are very publicly secretive about what actions will be taken to attempt to correct the issues reported. In any case, I think I did it correctly. Okay, he's a Bush appointee — let me not assume that means he's a thoroughly corrupted morally bereft monster. Let's at least go through the motions.

Simon, I am sure you don't mind I even tried to provide your phone number and several alternative methods of reaching me. I believe they would want to contact me first anyway, since I am actually a U.S. citizen. Nevertheless, you will see the field about "who can we contact to learn more" and that is where I elaborated.

Their page and my responses read something like this:

You may use the following form to submit your complaint or you may phone, fax, or mail your complaint. Prior to submitting your complaint to the Treasury OIG Hotline, we recommend you review the information located on the main Treasury OIG Hotline page.

Per Treasury Employee Rules of Conduct, 31 C.F.R. §0.207, and Treasury Order 114-01, all Treasury employees and officials are under the affirmative duty to report to the Inspector General any complaints or information concerning the possible existence of any activity constituting a violation of law, rules or regulations relating to the Department. Please be aware that if you intentionally report false information to the Treasury OIG, in some instances, you may be subject to possible criminal or civil penalties. We may make disclosures of information you submit to other parties, including other Federal and State law enforcement agencies, as necessary to complete our investigation, or as required under Federal law. We may also refer your allegation to the appropriate law enforcement agency if we believe you have alleged a criminal or civil violation within their jurisdiction.

You are not required to complete all of the presented information fields. Completion of the fields that are strongly recommended are marked by a * red asterisk. If you wish to elect anonymity or confidentiality, select the appropriate options within Part I of the form and follow the corresponding instructions. Please keep in mind that your decision to elect anonymity may limit our ability to conduct a complete investigation, if one is warranted.

*Who committed the alleged misconduct/wrongdoing? Include the full name, title/position, and the affected Treasury bureau, office, or program regarding each alleged Subject

STRATCOM and all associated Command bases put into power by the signing of the 1947 Truman Doctrine act, The Air Force, NASA and the FBI are defrauding taxpayers and the United States Treasury by failing to cough up the true authors of their official images, which they claim are photographs, and failing in their investigation of unsubstantiated media reports of the subjects and associated events (or falsified events) below.

*Describe what the individual(s) did that was wrong? Provide specific and relevant details concerning the alleged misconduct or wrongdoing

Because of the fraudulent and doctored imagery of respective stories listed below, and the Air Force, NASA and FBI's omission or failure of intelligence to vet the doctored imagery as such (instead claiming it is real photography rather than cartoons) both the identity of the "photographers" and the entire existence of these documented things are thrown into question as mere propaganda efforts meant to bend public will — and because of the prevalance of such it is indicative that the public would not approve and would not want these:

- The alleged hijackers and passengers of the four 9/11 airplanes (said to be flights 175, 11, 93, 77)
- The alleged occupants of the World Trade Center building at the time the buildings are said to have come down, including the over 3,000 reported victims (inexplicably reduced to a final number of 2,972) and firefighters
- The 9/11 WTC rubble, where there was supposed to be some kind of investigation the public had no access to
- The space shuttle launches and their missions to the boondoggle called Hubble and the bright light source in the sky called the International Space Station (are we to believe the ISS has a cloaking device which prevents telescopic lenses from capturing non-doctored photographs of it?)
- The Apollo "moon" missions, for which whistleblower William Kaysing of Rocketdyne should be a household name, if NASA would do the right thing and admit their wrongdoing, which was exposed by Kaysing decades ago
- The nuclear explosion tests, doctored up like a Disney special effects reel, and said to be "proof" of atomic weapons
- Presidential and other meetings between U.S. department heads with foreign diplomats, wherein the meetings look constructed and falsified

The taxpayers should never be called to, and cannot be expected to pay for, any scams involving their employees — which the Federal government entirely are by all legal definition, make no mistake. No phony science effort, phony threat (local, foreign or otherwise) or phony stories that cause our nation's very legislation to be modified without tacit confirmed and public approval of real facts can be permitted in our free society of a government by and for the people; hence, the falseness of 9/11, the space race, the nuclear bomb scare and the false documentation of the activities of its leadership itself are crimes of unimaginable magnitude for the American people. I am choosing to write to you about this matter as I've already written the White House, NASA and the IRS. Without corrective action at the direct finance level (i.e.; the operators of the Treasury) the propaganda-like misinformation is immorally and illegally "permitted" to continue. You can and must put a stop to it.

All of these relationships are presumed relevant, but the precise nature of the relationships and agreements between our government and these is rather critical public information [we should know their full roles] :

One or all of these may be involved in the fabrication, falsification and obfuscation of identities involved: the identities of alleged government employees, the identities of so-called "terrorists" and/or real agents of psychological terrorism working as government employees against American values. This growing problem of secrets upon secrets that civilians are not privy to indicates those that are hiding their identity do not stand for American values of freedom and justice, but for a technocratic oligarchy that preys on the global populace, pretending to be the best friend of humanity and humanitarianism.

*Do you know of efforts made thus far to correct the problem and/or the current status of the problem?

Bill Kaysing wrote a book about the corruption within NASA both leading to and stemming from faked imagery of accomplishments that never occurred. [...] It seems as though the agencies responsible for their hoaxes are witty enough to create false whistleblowers that will never discuss the core problem of fabricated deceptive imagery. Hence, the management of such useless, fearmongering characters as William Cooper, Alex Jones and Michael Moore -- none of whom discuss the total visual fabrication of various agenda subjects.

Since that time, the false, computer-animated "Robin Hood" characters of Edward Snowden and Julian Assange are said to have "exposed fraud" while they themselves must be managed by the same agents in the psychological operation.
If those inventing fake terrorists, fake victims and fake heroes are doing so to artificially widen the gap between the government and its civilian population, to prevent collaboration and force some kind of misunderstanding between us, these people may be considered traitors to the United States of the highest order and must be placed on public trial immediately. Otherwise, the United States public has every right to create a revolution and overthrow the powers keeping such corruption in place.

If you would like to reach out to the public for collaborators in bringing the frauds to justice, frauds who would terrify the world and force them into its rather lawless technocratic fiefdom, please feel free to contact me at my present address (given above).

This writing also serves as my formal request for your Departments' response to the matter.

*Where can we obtain additional information concerning this misconduct/wrongdoing? (e.g. supporting documentation, etc.) Additionally, who else might be aware of this misconduct/wrongdoing? Please provide names and contact information of any witnesses who may have more information. Explain how these individuals would possess more information and their relationship to the alleged problem

If you visit http://www.cluesforum.info, you will find a group of volunteer citizen watchdogs who have found and documented a vast number of problems with the specific imagery, and even a number of particular corporations and names of those responsible for defrauding the public.

Their efforts to raise awareness about the false, simulated victims of 9/11 and the lack of any substantial evidence for any 9/11 flights — including the incredible lack of existence of final flight manifests for any of the four alleged airplanes allegedly hijacked and crashed on September 11th, 2001 — has been successful in reaching out to various people around the world but not yet in government. A simplified version of the research in the form of the documentary "September Clues" by Simon Shack has been translated to over 10 languages and counting.

As independent artists, writers, essayists and thinkers with professional levels of expertise in a wide variety of applicable skills (such as sound, video and animation) many members would be able to explain to anyone in plain language willing to listen. I have been an administrator at CluesForum since its foundation and I would be happy to speak with any member of government willing to listen to our story.

Please do not let your lack of willingness to listen to citizens take over or destroy the government. Build a working, communicative relationship with the peace loving citizens of the world, including ourselves, and which we hope you are too.

Please suspend funding from and audit immediately STRATCOM, the departments of the Air Force, FBI and NASA responsible for hoaxing the American population and waging a psychological terrorist war against the world's imagination and love of peace.

As an American citizen, you are my employees, and I will certainly demand better of you and support you in your quest for a more honest, moral and decent government, until it's accomplished. All you need to do, if you recognize the wrongdoing that you have not been able to report for whatever reason, is ask for help from your people.

I mean, really, why not? I haven't heard the Treasury is announcing they have abandoned the Constitution of the United States.

bostonterrierowner wrote:Taxes do not "fund" anything in say United States because the government simply spends money by typing digits into the giant spreadsheet operated by its agent - the Federal Reserve.

Good points. I'm glad to hear them. Though "spending" something that doesn't exist in the first place itself isn't real, either.

But it's not what we're told. We're told that our taxes are the U.S. [petro-]dollars [fiat, debt, etc.] that we've earned and they "go" (often that verb in particular is used for some reason) "to" public projects. I think it may also vary from sub-State to sub-State within a super-State. But as I've been reading Thoreau's Civil Disobedience lately, the whole thing might be part of a necessary conversation that does not happen enough.

The point is to write to anyone about anything involving the TV fakery we've clearly uncovered and to get the conversation out there into the world.

As for "Freeman on the Land" sorts of things, that's an interesting reminder. I am not sure I'd personally fold all those subjects into the same pseudo-affidavit-resembling kinda thing. But it's cool. Along similar lines.

Let's just bring the conversation about TV fakery everywhere. It's necessary now. I want to know what others are doing to bring the conversation into the public eye, now. We're all capable of it.

Yep, I'm doing that. I'm asking you to do something. Sorry for being a pain about it, if that's what it seems like. As I said earlier, I know how cynical we all must be, and which we all have the right to be.

Despite that. To heck with it. There is hope. We have created it more and more, with each passing day!

Maybe the conversation should first start with: How do we motivate ourselves to come up with ideas? before we all poo-poo each other into inaction and laziness once more. I'm not sure.

(By the way, laziness is a wonderful virtue. I'm not knocking "mind your own business". Most of the time.)