Just curious about some opinions for those with a heavy progression mindset in terms of Heroics starting this week.

Glyph Of Riptide - You guys a big fan of this? On some fights I enjoy being able to keep this rolling while we are moving constantly such as Elegon or Spirit Kings but even without the glyph it hasn't been hard to keep Tidal Wives up at a very consistent and lengthy basis.

Glyph Of Chaining - Have not found much, if any use for this considering nearly every boss has had a stack phase or a phase where you are in close proximity to hit maximum targets.

Does anyone have an idea on what fights to glyph WS and what fights to stay away from it?

Only fight where WS should be glyphed for sure is Stone Guard. On Feng/Elagon it is about neutral and not worth a glyph spot. Spirit Kings it is a slight mana gain, still not really worth a glyph spot. On Gara'jal/Will glyphing WS results in a mana loss compared to unglyphed.

Overall, most of these vary so you should look at your own logs and determine if it is worth it.

I was wondering what other people's opinions are on the higher haste caps if they are easily attainable. For example, as a goblin resto shaman, my gear alone puts me ahead of the 3306 caps for HS and HT, without having to work for it through reforging or enchants/gems. Should I always go for a haste cap if its in range like that?

Normally I'd say yes automatically but everyone I talk to is of the 'avoid haste at all costs except for that first point' opinion. I'm not sure if that's just because they can't get to the other caps as easily as I can.

Just curious about some opinions for those with a heavy progression mindset in terms of Heroics starting this week.

Glyph Of Riptide - You guys a big fan of this? On some fights I enjoy being able to keep this rolling while we are moving constantly such as Elegon or Spirit Kings but even without the glyph it hasn't been hard to keep Tidal Wives up at a very consistent and lengthy basis.

Glyph Of Chaining - Have not found much, if any use for this considering nearly every boss has had a stack phase or a phase where you are in close proximity to hit maximum targets.

I am really not a fan of glyphed Riptide in almost any 25 man encounter (Lei Shi on Beta was the only exception). Healing Rain and Chain Heal are usable enough and more mana efficient than Riptide spam. When I was doing 10H testing on Beta, I probably had it in for 50% of fights and out for 50% of fights. It's a pretty significant HPM loss on Riptide, so you have to get used to the fight, your raids positioning and determine how badly the extra spread AOE healing is needed.

I was wondering what other people's opinions are on the higher haste caps if they are easily attainable. For example, as a goblin resto shaman, my gear alone puts me ahead of the 3306 caps for HS and HT, without having to work for it through reforging or enchants/gems. Should I always go for a haste cap if its in range like that?

Normally I'd say yes automatically but everyone I talk to is of the 'avoid haste at all costs except for that first point' opinion. I'm not sure if that's just because they can't get to the other caps as easily as I can.

You should reforge down to 1576 cap and take EM. At such high haste levels, the value of haste is diminished as a throughput stat. You will also have much more problems with mana than you would if you reforged to crit/mastery.

oh thx, i had completely forgotten that i could just not take AS to cut down on my haste. i also reforged out of all of my haste like you said but i still ended up over 2300 . i wish there wasnt so much high amounts of haste everywhere.

also, i saw you tell someone else to socket 320 spirits in everything. do you miss all socket bonuses or are there some you go for?

oh thx, i had completely forgotten that i could take echo to cut down on my haste. i also reforged out of all of my haste like you said but i still ended up over 2300 . i wish there wasnt so much high amounts of haste everywhere.

also, i saw you tell someone else to socket 320 spirits in everything. do you miss all socket bonuses or are there some you go for?

Sorry, where does the 782 come from? Can't see it in the goblin table anywhere.

I can see this part in the guide:

'Haste: Cast spells faster and adds extra ticks to hots. 871 (461 for goblins) haste with AS is the aiming point. If you choose to go with EM or EotE, 2017 (1576 for goblins) is a good aiming point. The only regen Haste scales with is TC, and it scales very poorly with that. Haste value is decreased between soft caps, making this the weakest stat in both 10 and 25 mans.'

which is different again.
I'm specced into Ancestral Swiftness and my character sheet shows 3k haste before I start reforging.

Your choice, il you want full gem for spirit without managing your mana, do it. Or you can manage your mana, heal more because you gem for sockets bonus with mastery/crit and own meters.

This is not true or better say a generalization that doesn't fit here. Of course one needs to manage ones mana, but that is something that should be mandatory and therefore has nothing to do with gearing for spirit or not. If you don't have enough mana and you can get more spirit by gemming/reforging, do it. Gearing for throughput stats won't help you in this case.

Edit: Furthermore your post implies that gearing for spirit is a necessity that only comes from being a bad player (meaning bad mana management), which seems a bit trollish to me. There are plenty of other reasons that can create the need of more mana that do not come from the player itself. For example having an undergeared raid, having a suboptimal groupsetup, etc.

He asked if gemming ALL sockets with spirit was good, ignoring bonus socket and other stats. My answer is that i think for that question.

And what you quoted is still something that is stated in the guide that you might need to do. And yet once again you give no logs or armory to show your finding and leave us with nothing but an opinion with very little basis. PLz if you think something is better do tell do give proof or otherwise dont bother posting.

Only fight where WS should be glyphed for sure is Stone Guard. On Feng/Elagon it is about neutral and not worth a glyph spot. Spirit Kings it is a slight mana gain, still not really worth a glyph spot. On Gara'jal/Will glyphing WS results in a mana loss compared to unglyphed.

Overall, most of these vary so you should look at your own logs and determine if it is worth it.

I think on Stone Guard WS should only be glyphed if you have Jade up (which in 25man would be always).

I still think we need to manage our mana instead stacking spirit ( at least in 10 man raid ).

Sorry if i am a "Troll" :'(

But intellect just translates to overhealing with far too much of it, I'm not saying you're a troll, you can play however you want too. As far as Heroics go tonight and how Elegon and some of the other fights panned out last week, I personally want as much regen as I can get for both myself and my fellow healers in 10man. I am sitting at 9k Spirit with a fair amount of secondary stats, even with 15k+ Combat Regen there are still some mana issues if the fight doesn't go perfectly. Also you are three healing all of these fights, whereas we two healed everything. I doubt you need as much regeneration with some support like that, still I would be careful. You will encounter Mana Issues more than likely with such a low amount of spirit.

oh thx, i had completely forgotten that i could just not take AS to cut down on my haste. i also reforged out of all of my haste like you said but i still ended up over 2300 . i wish there wasnt so much high amounts of haste everywhere.

also, i saw you tell someone else to socket 320 spirits in everything. do you miss all socket bonuses or are there some you go for?

Sorry, where does the 782 come from? Can't see it in the goblin table anywhere.

I can see this part in the guide:

'Haste: Cast spells faster and adds extra ticks to hots. 871 (461 for goblins) haste with AS is the aiming point. If you choose to go with EM or EotE, 2017 (1576 for goblins) is a good aiming point. The only regen Haste scales with is TC, and it scales very poorly with that. Haste value is decreased between soft caps, making this the weakest stat in both 10 and 25 mans.'

which is different again.
I'm specced into Ancestral Swiftness and my character sheet shows 3k haste before I start reforging.

Sorry for the confusion. Those were the old haste caps before the correction to HST and HTT scaling. 461 is the new haste cap for Goblins.

Originally Posted by marukale

I think on Stone Guard WS should only be glyphed if you have Jade up (which in 25man would be always).

This makes sense, but I have only done it on 25 Man so I am not sure. In my kill, WS procced 42 times in 7:12. That is a gain of over 30k mana.

You can also start using HW instead of GHW and not overheal, and when the big hits come (elegon burn for example) you get there almost full mana, end with 10% and pump bigger heals that wont let the raid die out during the dmg