can we get everyone to eat a completely 100% perfect diet. no. can we all eat a more plant based healthier diet? yes of course!

i think its about baby steps and it seems like to me more people are switching to a plant based diet and inspiring others to do so with videos and
leading my example on social media which is a great thing! change doesnt happen over night but eventually it does and more people latch onto a a new
idea of living.

originally posted by: ConMi27
BUT what if, we didn't need b12? Are there animals out there whom don't consume meat products and their bodies need b12? *twilight theme song* I'm
probably going to look into that. Lol
Thanks for the response!

You are welcome!

Vitamin B12 is essential for humans. Deficiency can make you really ill, physically and cognitively.

If you read my posts about vitamin B12 you'll see I always say 'animal products' which include eggs and dairy, I never specifically say meat.

And you are correct: we do not need animal flesh to get vit B12, but the fact that it is essential for our wellbeing indicates that we have not
evolved to live without animal products. Plant products are not enough. We are omnivorous.

I have chronic migraines and a bone spur in my neck. Between them, I experience some degree of pain for much of my life.

Why on earth would you assume that I would be interested in taking way one of the genuine pleasures left in my life - tasty, tasty food - in order to
prolong a life of already chronic pain?

What kind of a monster are you?

Lol, I know that was laced with humor but seriously.

I have two bone spurs in my ankle along with arthritis, this causes me pain all the way to my lower back and has thrown my entire skeleton out of
alignment.

Not comparing that to one In the neck, that sounds absolutely terrible. Sorry to hear such a thing.

My point is, some of the foods I've mentioned have clearly helped my condition, for which I've been told can only be corrected by surgery.

Weird that I can leap about better than ever.

So Maybe try some Chaga mushroom tea? See if it relieves some symptoms? This rather than stubbornly worsening things.

Your method reminds me of taking benzodiazepines to cure anxiety. A great bandaid and comfort, but in the end will magnify that which we were trying
to escape.

Pain pills work the same way. A great comfort and bandaid that will cure nothing and may only leave us with an opiate dependency. Along with a nasty
detox accompanied by the original pain X10......

I think this is an interesting post because many plant-based diets claim that it rids people of such ailments such as arthritis and other pains. One
book, the first book I read on this awful discovery, because it is awful believing that what you've ate most of your life can cause one lots of
issues, discussed how one woman had her leg amputated because of cancer, then was diagnosed with breast cancer, and after having her right breast
removed - she decided to visit a naturopath whom recommended a plant based diet.

This was in 1999, she has been cancer free ever since (even after the doctors recommended she prepare for the final coountdown) and was able to live a
normal life. (With the loss of a leg and partial boob bit, of course)

Her name was Megg Wolfe. Book "Veganist" by Kathy Freston.

The book itself was very straight forward, almost too forward with the information the author gave. But I liked the personal stories the most, because
it seemed to be more genuine.

So if what she says is true, and it was that beneficial to her, I think it's probably true for those that have other pains in their bodies and joints,
or wherever else.

yes, I have noticed your delicate wording about the animals produce and not just meat : )
In general people treat this word as only meat. So I just wanted to clarify this.

From what I can google this stuff. B12 is generated when home grown fruits or vegis are cultivated. At least I have seen a few sources which state
that in case of natural home growing, that b12 issue is not when you pluck fresh vegis from the ground.

Any thoughts about that?

I am just wandering what you think, because it is clear that you are wise when it comes to food and nutrition.

From what I can google this stuff. B12 is generated when home grown fruits or vegis are cultivated. At least I have seen a few sources which state
that in case of natural home growing, that b12 issue is not when you pluck fresh vegis from the ground.

Any thoughts about that?

The only way to grow plants with 'some' B12 is by using lots of animal manure or human faeces and the vegetables still have extremely low amounts of
B12 but you still need animal products to achieve it.
(Mozafar A. Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic fertilizers. Plant Soil. 1994;167:305–31).

Or you could grow vegetables using idroponics and enrich them with vitamin B12, which is like supplements: man made.

Unfortunately only animal products can provide B12.

In my household we eat vegan/vegetarian at least three times a week, because it is healthy (and because we don't want the unnecessary sacrifice of
animal life for our nutrition). But our bodies need essential nutrients that are not found in plants products and supplements are man made, you could
not get B12 in a natural way without drinking milk or eating eggs. This shows how we have evolved to be omnivorous.

Well this could be argued about on length how we have evolved to be omnivorous. I don't believe that to be the case just because of b12. This is only
your conclusion.
When you inspect our structures of teeth and digestive system and its length compared to body size, it is more similar ratio to animals which are
mainly eating fruits and vegis and less similar to animals like bears who are omnivorous. And this is my conclusion.

So it is more of a matter of prospective and how you decide to look at things. For instance there are people who are healthy only by sun gazing every
day and a glass of water or milk with no food for years. Or yogis who can look at the sun for hours without any damage to the eyes while they recharge
with prana.

So I think there are really no rules when it comes to healthy living experience. We decide ourself our fate with our beliefs or for some others, with
facts made by science.

When you inspect our structures of teeth and digestive system and its length compared to body size, it is more similar ratio to animals which are
mainly eating fruits and vegis and less similar to animals like bears who are omnivorous.

This have been the most popular argument against the case that human are meat eater. The solution came observing primitive meat eating cultures. They
use a cutting tool in one hand and the other hand to bring food to mouth.

That is the distinction between human and other animal; a big brain to make and use tools in an adaptable fashion instead of fixed "special" teeth.
The big brain is also able to design clothing, another versatile adaptation intead of permanent fur.

And what to say of others brain byproducts: fire, weapon, language, housing...

Brain is probably the best proof that we are not vegan, as none of the things enumerated are required to feed on leave and fruit (if you exclude
agriculture).

For instance there are people who are healthy only by sun gazing every day and a glass of water or milk with no food for years.

Living on light and water is impossible: we cannot break or escape the laws of biology. Plants can live on light and water because they have
chloroplasts that can capture energy from sunlight, we don't have chloroplasts. We need to ingest nutrients.

Many people have tried to live on sunlight and water only and have failed, remember this woman? www.medicaldaily.com...

Living on milk only could sustain your for only a short period of time as it lacks nutrients that our bodies need to be healthy. Without researching
one immediately comes to my mind: vitamin C and scurvy!

How you define yourself is what limits or frees us.

I wish I could agree, but we are limited by biological rules that we cannot break.

Many people have tried to live on sunlight and water only and have failed, remember this woman?

Fantastic example of peoples doing stupid things...

She was ketogenic the time she has got some fat store left, and probably on amino acids in the later phase burning her muscles. And one thing for sure
is she was deficient in many things like vitamins and minerals, but probably not in vitamin D. LOL

yes it is true, what your write for normal people, like me and you. But there are individuals who have gone beyond the physical limits. Don't ask me
how is this possible, but there are beautiful and miraculous things waiting to be discovered. Outside of our senses or normal perception if only we
will be more open about it.
Many have noticed that and tasted only a drop during meditation or other spiritual practices.

You can google NASA experiment or it was some other organisation who tested one such individual a few years ago, and they could not find appropriate
explanation about how this is possible. His body functioned normally as far as they could measure. There was also another test in India about some guy
with the same results. So there were some scientific inquires but scientists were only more confused and could not explain it.

Or like how some people can worm up the body temperature in winter - bare naked with only certain yoga breathing technique. This is not so hard and
can be done with some training with proper master or even by yourself, but with a lot of work and meditating.

This and many more awesome stuff can be realized with proper body, mental and spiritual training, like for instance like authentic yoga. This is not
something which you just decide and do it - like your example in the link. This would only bring troubles or even death. But with proper training
everything can be achieved.

But that is my opinion, I don't particularly care if someone disagrees nor is there any solid evidence. But we each have different experiences while
living from which our opinions spurs, and my experiences are pointing to me that everything is possible.

This and many more awesome stuff can be realized with proper body, mental and spiritual training, like for instance like authentic yoga. This is not
something which you just decide and do it - like your example in the link. This would only bring troubles or even death. But with proper training
everything can be achieved.

Those yoga masters are probably capable to lower their basal metabolism to very low energy requirement, but they are probably is some kind of state
similar to hibernation, not very productive for modern life!

My friend, whilst I agree that there are many things science cannot explain (as yet) I need evidence. I have studied the human body for too long to
believe that some have abilities that go against the laws of nature, such as living on light and water.

Please find that experiment you mentioned and link it. I am skeptical but I would love to read about it.
Thank you.

sorry I cannot find any more scientific source. But you at least have the names associated and further google searches would probably be fruitful.

Study of the human body is good. But when you start to lean on science for it, your research will not be completed. If you want to study the body
truly, than I would recommend to end this study within yourself. There are many individuals who are studying with this approach, via meditation and
other practices and for me and many others there is no doubt about the universal energy all around us, labelled prana, chi or many other names. Which
I suspect plays a major role for nutrition of the body when living without food. This is just one of the things which science is blind about...or is
it??

There were scientists in the past who researched it and figured something out. Like Tesla or Wilhelm Reich. But they are not supported by science and
their research was stolen or destroyed by government and publicly pictured as crazy or some other wired #. Which is the case with many such people who
discover something not in lines with mainstream. Although of course the people who have come across such brilliant scientist before all the issues
with the official agencies and needed their help in some form, know differently and there are witnesses which saw some amazing things. But they are
disregarded just as fantasy stories. But you know what? It takes just one story to be true.

In cases like this, I like to ask myself. Why would the government trouble itself so much if there was no substance in their claims. They would
probably ignore it, like in many cases where people are just plain nut cases.

This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.