Hi all,Having recently visited my daughter who lives in Germany, I managed to travel on German railways for a few days here and there.

I was impressed by the intensity and timeliness of their operations.Coming from Australia where the network of railways (outside of capital cities) is quite sparse, it really is quite fascinating.

I would like to purchase two modern German ELECTRIC locomotives modelled by Maerklin with sound.I am asking thoose who live in Germany, or perhaps those who are familiar with the continental systems this one question.Can you choose for me please, two locomotives (freight or passenger) representative of modern German operation?

I did notice many locos with lettering CARGO on the Rhine River freight route (the right bank??), and I guess these were Swiss trains given rights over the German system.The whole scenario is a mystery to myself, and I suppose my guesses are not even correct.

I did notice many locos with lettering CARGO on the Rhine River freight route (the right bank??), and I guess these were Swiss trains given rights over the German system.The whole scenario is a mystery to myself, and I suppose my guesses are not even correct.

SBB have all sorts of Cargo locomotives.They even had some that could operate in Germany, but not in Switzerland.

One characteristic of era VI is that locos no longer have to be swapped at borders. A single loco can run from Switzerland to the north sea while others can run from Switzerland to Italy.

Iconic?DB AG has hundreds of TRAXX locos. Märklin offer nice TRAXX locos with plastic body and sound.There are only a few dozen locos of class 101, but they are iconic IMHO for express trains.But I think ES 64 U2 and ES 64 F4 are as iconic as the 101, but for freight trains.

Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

Hi Tom,Thank you for those suggestions.Yes I guessed that freight locos and trains are used cross continent, but could not say so for sure.

I did get a photo of a Dispolok ES64 U2 on a freight train (see Post #25 below).It seemed to be quite a compact loco.And I see Maerklin made an MFX sound ES64 U2 about 8 years ago. That sounds like a good choice for one.I already have a 152 of which I saw quite a few, but mine has the DB Museum graphics (34352).

You could consider a class 120. They handled both express IC passenger services and freight. They are gradually being phased out now but I have seen them recently (2016) even just on regional/inter-regional expresses.

Since operators use many different class designations for the manufacturer name, I think it has advantages to use manufacturer names.

Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

To all these you could probably add the Skoda manufactured loco that Marklin has recently introduced.

I haven't seen one of those in real life.It's neither iconic nor ubiquitous for me.

I haven't seen a DB class 182 loco in years - now that they are mostly used for regional trains in Eastern Germany, they no longer haul freight trains in the west. With 25 units originally they were never iconic.But I still see their privately owned sisters.

Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

You could consider a class 120. They handled both express IC passenger services and freight. They are gradually being phased out now but I have seen them recently (2016) even just on regional/inter-regional expresses.

Carim

Thanks Carim,I know the Class 120 is very iconic and a favourite with model enthusiasts, as it appeared in many different schemes.Maerklin made it with MyWorld graphics which is quite attractive for a model.

Hi all,Having recently visited my daughter who lives in Germany, I managed to travel on German railways for a few days here and there.

I was impressed by the intensity and timeliness of their operations.Coming from Australia where the network of railways (outside of capital cities) is quite sparse, it really is quite fascinating.

I would like to purchase two modern German ELECTRIC locomotives modelled by Maerklin with sound.I am asking thoose who live in Germany, or perhaps those who are familiar with the continental systems this one question.Can you choose for me please, two locomotives (freight or passenger) representative of modern German operation?

I did notice many locos with lettering CARGO on the Rhine River freight route (the right bank??), and I guess these were Swiss trains given rights over the German system.The whole scenario is a mystery to myself, and I suppose my guesses are not even correct.

Thanks in advance.

Kimball

DBAG (Passenger)/DB Schenker CargoIf you are looking for passenger trains, the appropriate modern electric locomotives would be BR 101, BR 120For regional passenger, it would be a BR 112, BR 146 or BR 147For freight trains, it would be BR 145, BR 152, BR 185 or BR 189

There are a number of private operators in Germany, including SBB Cargo, as the German network was opened up to private companies, lease-hire companies and foreign companies.

It is not uncommon to find those SBB Cargo loks, Austrian Taurus loks and others pulling freights and charters on many German routes.

My recommendations for models would be:Maerklin is releasing a model of the ICE 4. This will be the backbone of the Intercity fleet.You should be able to find a BR 101 and Intercity coaches. Maerklin will probably announce 28cm models of the white and red coaches in 2019 or 2020.If you don't want to wait, you can check out a BR 120 (37529 or similar) with the 43308/09/43310/43856 EC Tiziano set from the 1990s.For a freight train, I like the livery of the new SBB Vectron. https://railcolornews.co...sbb-cargo-international/I expect a Maerklin model to be announced in 2019. You could put that with a container train made up of 47097 and similar container cars. The assorted containers make for an attractive train.

Bombardier Loks:(Traxx Series) 145 (Freight), 146 (Regional), 146 (new Regional/Intercity), 147 (new Regional/Intercity), 185 (Freight)Siemens Loks:(Eurosprinter Series) (ES)Taurus (OBB 1116/1216/DB 182) also known as ES64 U2BR 152 led to the 189 multi system variant (ES64 F4)When SNCB (Belgium) and CP (Portugal) ordered loks from the Taurus series, certain changes were made to accommodate new safety norms. This platform became the new standard and has replaced the Taurus in the Siemens line. This model is now called the Vectron aka BR 193.

A good place to get more information on all these models is railcolor.net

If you have larger radii, you might consider using a Maerklin lok with Roco, LSM or ACME passenger coaches, as the 30cm prototypical ones are more detailed.

Hi Mike,Thank you for the explanations, which clarifies the modern operations. I noticed the freight trains along the Rhine for two days from my hotel window (what a way to holiday...) and the variety of motive power was confusing.But the idea of many operators using the tracks makes sense.

Thank you for your suggestions.The Vectron is one loco of which I saw a few, one at Berlin Hbf in Czech Republic blue passenger colour scheme.Probably the 36197 is a good place to start in the DB standard colours. I will not be interested in the longer model coaches, my layout suits the standard offerings from Maerklin.

And thanks for the railcolor link, I will find that most useful in the coming months.

Hi David,Interesting you should say that about the Taurus (aka ES64 U2), but I realise I have one of those models.It has Mercedes Benz graphics as a Class 182, and came with a special car transport set #26527 sold at MB dealerships.Maybe a real engine was decorated in those graphics ....

I would like another in the plain red, but I don't think Maerklin have done it.Decisions decisions .....

You could consider a class 120. They handled both express IC passenger services and freight. They are gradually being phased out now but I have seen them recently (2016) even just on regional/inter-regional expresses.

Carim

Thanks Carim,I know the Class 120 is very iconic and a favourite with model enthusiasts, as it appeared in many different schemes.Maerklin made it with MyWorld graphics which is quite attractive for a model.

Kimball

My understanding is the motor units of the ICE1 are Class 120 units under a different skin.

It has Mercedes Benz graphics as a Class 182, and came with a special car transport set #26527 sold at MB dealerships.Maybe a real engine was decorated in those graphics ....

"Das Original gibt es bei Märklin".Yes, a real engine in 1:87 was decorated that way.

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow

I would like another in the plain red, but I don't think Maerklin have done it.

39830 (fx and C-Sine). 39840 (mfx, no C-Sine).

Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

Yes, thanks Tom - I have 39830 with C-Sine motor, it has no sound but is in DB Traffic Red.

The 2 Rocos I have are also in Traffic Red colour - 1 is in DB livery, the other is in Railon livery. Again no sound, but I think I could convert them with a sound decoder since the locos have an 8 pin NEM decoder socket.

The C-Sine locos are not easy to convert, you need additional MTC interface boards with the proper electronics to control the C-Sine motors. Marklin sold out of the MTC boards some years ago.

Interesting you should say that about the Taurus (aka ES64 U2), but I realise I have one of those models.It has Mercedes Benz graphics as a Class 182, and came with a special car transport set #26527 sold at MB dealerships.

There is also a Taurus in Porsche colours that Marklin did - 39835 was the model number.

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow

I would like another in the plain red, but I don't think Maerklin have done it.Decisions decisions .....

When the ebay seller specifies that only delivers to Germany, maybe he or she also delivers to other countries. I already bought 2 items in that situation. Of course the seller need to be questioned first. If the answer is that the item can be delivered to outside Germany, the post price also needs to be specified by the seller.Maybe it is easier to create an item in ebay.de just selling to Germany than to other countries...

When the ebay seller specifies that only delivers to Germany, maybe he or she also delivers to other countries. I already bought 2 items in that situation. Of course the seller need to be questioned first. If the answer is that the item can be delivered to outside Germany, the post price also needs to be specified by the seller.

This is so.

I have bought most of my second-hand stuff from eBay.de for some time now.

Whilst at face first look they usually state only post to Germany, I have found the vast majority will post to Australia if asked; (of course the postage is hell)

I am starting to get a much clearer picture of the manufacturers designs on each of the locomotives. Like in the old days of fire and steam, electric Freight locos require different design parameters to those for express passenger.I note some locos are labelled "fast general purpose" so I guess that equates to a BR41 steam engine which could handle both.

Anyway I have two modern locos already (the class 152 DB #34352 and the ES64 U2 with Mercedes Benz graphics #26527).That gives me room to decide on another two over the next few weeks.

To add to the interest generated in this topic, here is a picture of the 26527 loco.It is a very basic model - comes with a 6090 decoder so no sound or MFX, but it does make a rather iconic grinding noise ......It appears to have a fictitious number 182 221-0. W221 is the MB nomenclature for the S class motor car.

Another question I get a 50/50 positive response to is the question of deducting VAT for out of Europe sales. Presumably those who refuse to deduct it can't be bothered dealing with the German tax authorities, but it does make me wonder what happens to VAT paid. Does the dealer pocket it and claim an out of Europe sale or do they actually pay the tax?

And here is another photo I took in December 2018.It is an ES64 U2 passing westbound through Eberbach, south Odenwald in BW. 11/12/2018. #ES64U2-009it was only after returning home and asking these questions, that I learnt how significant a photo I had taken.

The extended arm mast for catenary happened to be in the photo, and is another subject in which I am interested.

Kimball

Edited by user04 January 2019 11:13:26(UTC)
| Reason: added date and loc number

Another question I get a 50/50 positive response to is the question of deducting VAT for out of Europe sales. Presumably those who refuse to deduct it can't be bothered dealing with the German tax authorities, but it does make me wonder what happens to VAT paid. Does the dealer pocket it and claim an out of Europe sale or do they actually pay the tax?

Yes when buying from eBay.de, usually second-hand I don't worry about VAT because the article is usually cheaper anyway.I much prefer to deal with proper dealers (via their website), who automatically take away the VAT on new articles.I suppose they do it with second hand articles as well.

Presumably those who refuse to deduct it can't be bothered dealing with the German tax authorities, but it does make me wonder what happens to VAT paid. Does the dealer pocket it and claim an out of Europe sale or do they actually pay the tax?

Private sellers do not pay VAT, so there is nothing to deduct.For second-hand items professional sellers may opt to pay VAT only on their profit - in this case they do not disclose the VAT on the invoice and will not/cannot deduct the VAT when shipping abroad.Part-time professional sellers (small business) can opt not to pay VAT at all. In that case there is nothing to deduct either.

Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

Part-time professional sellers (small business) can opt not to pay VAT at all. In that case there is nothing to deduct either.

Surely it is not that laissez-faire as whether a seller pays or not. In NZ the limit is $60000 NZD per year, if you earn above that you pay GST, if not you don't. Surely there must be a limit where VAT kicks in.

The particular dealer I was asking about VAT today is a Professional dealer selling new items, and the items are advertised on ebay as including 19% VAT.

I think the limits are total sales of more than €25,000 in the previous year or expected total sales of more than €100,000 in the current year.

Maybe some are too lazy to deal with tax deduction regulations. Maybe some write double invoices (one for you, a different amount for the tax authorities) to get the VAT into their own pockets.I never had to deal with VAT, so I do not know any details about the red tape involved.

Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

If your looking to get a passenger train that is iconic, I'd shoot for the ICE4, though its a train, not a loco, but its color scheme and class of service spans 1991 to today (with the test trains running in the 1980's) so its a great constant fit for a wide range of eras, and the modern incarnation of the style.

If your looking to get a passenger train that is iconic, I'd shoot for the ICE4, though its a train, not a loco, but its color scheme and class of service spans 1991 to today (with the test trains running in the 1980's) so its a great constant fit for a wide range of eras, and the modern incarnation of the style.

Hi Thomas,Thanks for that.I will have to treat the ICE trains separately from the locos.They are indeed ubiquitous in Germany, and iconic too.

But I think I will need a while to sort out whether I go for a 1, 2 , 3 or 4.So that will be the question ....At least they are widely available.

Hi all,Having recently visited my daughter who lives in Germany, I managed to travel on German railways for a few days here and there.

I was impressed by the intensity and timeliness of their operations.Coming from Australia where the network of railways (outside of capital cities) is quite sparse, it really is quite fascinating.

I would like to purchase two modern German ELECTRIC locomotives modelled by Maerklin with sound.I am asking thoose who live in Germany, or perhaps those who are familiar with the continental systems this one question.Can you choose for me please, two locomotives (freight or passenger) representative of modern German operation?

I did notice many locos with lettering CARGO on the Rhine River freight route (the right bank??), and I guess these were Swiss trains given rights over the German system.The whole scenario is a mystery to myself, and I suppose my guesses are not even correct.

Thanks in advance.

Kimball

Hello Kimball,

have not yet read thouroghly the complete thread, but I think a train with the BR 102 and its red DoSto wagon (= Doppelstockwaggon) is a must, if you want to buy a modern train from Germany. More than a ICE 1 - 3 is at the moment.

Here a video about test drives of the complete train at the (river) Saar route.

This video is from the INNOTRANS fair in Berlin, introducing this new NME.

This is a video introducing all kinds of DoStos in Germany

A second loco will be the BR 193. Here only a video about a delivery from the producer to the DB ag of 2 brandnew locos.

The line NME is outstanding, because it is the first line in Germany where a high-speed long distance train (normally an ICE today) is combined with a fast speed (high-speed is defined for trains which are running more than 250 km/h) short distance train using the same track lines. The schedules are setted in the way that the still much faster ICE is passing the local express train, while this one is in a train station changing passengers.

I just returned from Munich using the A 9 Autobahn, where over long distances the train tracks are guided parallel to the 6-lane road. Meanwhile it is quite normal, driving the car with about 160 km/h (more is not allowed for myself at the moment, because I have my Winter tires on the car and they are limited to a maximum speed of 160 km/h) and an ICE with 300 km/h passes you. But a new experience now, a red one, regional, train is doing the same too using the new BR 102 as a loco and not having a electrical multiple unit.

If you are sometimes in Darmstadt, Germany you can do a one day train round trip from Darmstadt via Frankfurt, Würzburg, Nürnberg, München, Stuttgart, Heidelberg, Darmstadt and using for the segment Nürnberg - München the new NME.

Hi all,Having recently visited my daughter who lives in Germany, I managed to travel on German railways for a few days here and there.

I was impressed by the intensity and timeliness of their operations.Coming from Australia where the network of railways (outside of capital cities) is quite sparse, it really is quite fascinating.

I would like to purchase two modern German ELECTRIC locomotives modelled by Maerklin with sound.I am asking thoose who live in Germany, or perhaps those who are familiar with the continental systems this one question.Can you choose for me please, two locomotives (freight or passenger) representative of modern German operation?

I did notice many locos with lettering CARGO on the Rhine River freight route (the right bank??), and I guess these were Swiss trains given rights over the German system.The whole scenario is a mystery to myself, and I suppose my guesses are not even correct.

Thanks in advance.

Kimball

Hello Kimball,

have not yet read thouroghly the complete thread, but I think a train with the BR 102 and its red DoSto wagon (= Doppelstockwaggon) is a must, if you want to buy a modern train from Germany. More than a ICE 1 - 3 is at the moment.

Here a video about test drives of the complete train at the (river) Saar route.

This video is from the INNOTRANS fair in Berlin, introducing this new NME.

This is a video introducing all kinds of DoStos in Germany

A second loco will be the BR 193. Here only a video about a delivery from the producer to the DB ag of 2 brandnew locos.

The line NME is outstanding, because it is the first line in Germany where a high-speed long distance train (normally an ICE today) is combined with a fast speed (high-speed is defined for trains which are running more than 250 km/h) short distance train using the same track lines. The schedules are setted in the way that the still much faster ICE is passing the local express train, while this one is in a train station changing passengers.

I just returned from Munich using the A 9 Autobahn, where over long distances the train tracks are guided parallel to the 6-lane road. Meanwhile it is quite normal, driving the car with about 160 km/h (more is not allowed for myself at the moment, because I have my Winter tires on the car and they are limited to a maximum speed of 160 km/h) and an ICE with 300 km/h passes you. But a new experience now, a red one, regional, train is doing the same too using the new BR 102 as a loco and not having a electrical multiple unit.

If you are sometimes in Darmstadt, Germany you can do a one day train round trip from Darmstadt via Frankfurt, Würzburg, Nürnberg, München, Stuttgart, Heidelberg, Darmstadt and using for the segment Nürnberg - München the new NME.

Best regards

TEEWolf

Thank you Wolfgang

Dream rolling stock.

I have seen Bombardier, but even though Bombardier is a Quebec company, the transportation division is essentially European. I'm not even sure if Bombardier from home still has something to say to Europe.

All I can say is that Armand Bombardier, the founder of Bombardier, must turn around in his grave when he sees what has become of his empire. It is very sad for us in Quebec

..... I think a train with the BR 102 and its red DoSto wagon (= Doppelstockwaggon) is a must, if you want to buy a modern train from Germany. More than a ICE 1 - 3 is at the moment.

.....

If you are sometimes in Darmstadt, Germany you can do a one day train round trip from Darmstadt via Frankfurt, Würzburg, Nürnberg, München, Stuttgart, Heidelberg, Darmstadt and using for the segment Nürnberg - München the new NME.

Best regards

TEEWolf

Hi Wolf,Thanks for the tips, and the videos.

I agree that the Skoda red locomotive is definitely one to consider.Maerklin do a #36202, and there is a review of the Czech Maerklin model here (under Review ...).

I wonder if Skoda do the electric motors and bogies as well as the locomotive frame and body.Skoda built many railway rolling stock in years past.I believe they built all the Doppelstockwagens for the train too.

Regarding the travel via the NME segment Nürnberg - München, that will have to wait for my return to Germany.That may be a few years away.Certainly the facility for travel by train in Germany is generally well managed by DB.My only trouble was in getting from Platform 5 to Platform 12 in 6 minutes in a strange station (or Hbf) environment when the ticket is booked for specific train departures.Of course when you are familiar with the station it is no problem.To be honest the signage at the German stations is very clear, and the platform/concourse lifts are convenient and well placed.I found the lack of large luggage storage on some trains a problem, but the later the model of train, the better design of storage.

I found the lack of large luggage storage on some trains a problem, but the later the model of train, the better design of storage.

Kimball

This is a constant in all transportation vehicles that the older cars/carriages/planes tend to have less space. Back “in the day” one too smaller suitcases for trips and was often not traveling as far. For the big trips themliggage was often checked through luggage services. The seats in the train cars of the 70’s and 80’s has luggage racks above all of the benches in open and compartment seating but only for what would be backpacks and carry on sized bags of today. I think I got a 1970’s samsonote suitcase up there as well.

Then some cars were modernize in designs that mimicked air travel and luggage storage was moved away from seats as most travelers didn’t need it to that extent.

Also the 36197 MFX red Elektrolokomotive 170 der DB Schenker Rail (Siemens Vectron) which may be general purpose??

I am considering a few others.

The 36630 was already at my local dealer, so it has been running on my layout sourrounded by era IIIa stuff, but appears to be quite at home.No problems on curved C track R2 turnouuts, double slips, R1 curves etc. The sound functions are so real from my recent memory in Germany.

You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.