Can anyone help me out, my Cav has terrible seizures, has anyone else experienced this? It seems to only happen when we are out for a walk, he goes totally stiff and shakes, it is terrifying to see. I had him at the dog hospital and they thought it was epilepsy, they done tests and it turns out its not. My vet thinks he is not getting enought oxygen to his brain. I am now afraid to bring him for walks in case it happens again, as you can imagine I really fuss over him and he is spoiled rotten!!!!!!

arasara

8th February 2007, 04:07 PM

oh my god Sue - I am so sorry!! That must be terrifying.

Have you heard of a condition called episodic falling syndrome? I don't know much about it so someone else will have to chime in but form what I know it's worth at least checking out.

Good luck - hopefully someone else can help you out.. :flwr:

GudrunTheRed

8th February 2007, 04:20 PM

I would go to another vet and get another opinion. Not all vets are created equal and so like with human, second and third opinions can be very important.

I'm very sorry about your poor baby. I don't know anything about episodic falling syndrome, but it's definitely something you could talk with another vet about.

Good luck!

arasara

8th February 2007, 04:27 PM

This is from the health library on EFS:

http://www.cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=217

I don't know much about it but maybe you can read through it and compare.

I agree with Monica - go and seek another opinion! ;)

Sue.k

8th February 2007, 04:31 PM

Thank you so much Sara, I have looked at a website that is all about episodic falling, it has video clips (which are very upsetting) of dogs having them, it looks very like what Prince has, it also says that it is painful for them, i am so upset, my vet told me that he wouldnt know what is happening to him! Thank you again, I am going to do alot of research on this to see if i can prevent it happening again.

arasara

8th February 2007, 04:41 PM

Sue,

I am so sorry to hear that. :(

You know what though? If this is in fact what he has then at least you know that there is help out there. :) To be honest with you I was looking into adopting a little b/t boy who had this same condition. His foster mom took him to a vet which precribed a new medication to him and he hasn't had a seizure for quite a while now. :) (I still keep up with his foster mom on his progress)

Hopefully you can get everything straightened out Sue - I'll be thinking of you! :flwr:

Sue.k

8th February 2007, 04:57 PM

Oh thank you again Sara, I can't believe I have finally found out what it is, you wouldnt believe how upsetting it is when its happening and you dont know what to do or what he is feeling, :cry*ing: all I can do is talk to him and pet him to try to calm him down. I have been on a website about it and requested regular updates. I am just gonna keep spoiling my little furbaby with love and hugs :D At least I know I am not doing anything wrong and I have been right not to bring him for very long walks. Thanks again to everyone, Prince is gonna be ok once we take extra extra care :mexwav:

arasara

8th February 2007, 05:14 PM

Good luck Sue!! :) Let us know how you get on. Maybe your vet (or another one perhaps?) can give you more of a definitive answer and also have some suggestions on how to help him out. :)

Good luck!! :flwr:

Jana

8th February 2007, 05:58 PM

Dear Sue!
I am so sorry to hear this but it seems very likely that your little Prince has EF syndrome. Please, contact with the people on the www.episodicfalling.com website. They are very kind and helpful and have huge experience. Most of EF dogs can be treated to let them live normal or almost normal life. There have been some experiences also on acupuncture or other kind of alternative treatment. There are not many vets who are familiar with this syndrome. You can inform your vet first about this website and then maybe he/she would like to find more and contact those veterinarians, who have this information.

Good luck to you and Prince :flwr:

Remali

8th February 2007, 06:20 PM

That has to be so awful for you Sue, I agree about getting another opinion from another vet. Somewhere there has to be a vet with some experience with this. Let us know how he is doing.

judy

8th February 2007, 06:44 PM

so sorry for you and prince.
if it was me, i'd definitely be seeing more than one or two vets about it--unless i found one who was clearly up on it. Maybe sara can find out more about that new medication that has seemed to help that other dog, and a vet could be asked about using that.

Also, it's great to find out about other dogs that have similar symptoms and a known diagnosis wiht prognosis and treatment rather than to have no clue what's going on, but of course, you can't diagnose conclusively from a website, and a good smart open-minded and cutting edge vet seems to me to be what's needed here. It sounds hopeful and promising that these online resources can help you find the help prince needs.

good luck!

arasara

8th February 2007, 06:45 PM

there's a reference to the medication in the health library link. ;) Maybe there are more out there now? I don't know - I am no expert on this sort of deal.

I definately agree with you Judy as to going to another vet for a difinitive answer. As I said before I barely know anything about this condition I just have heard about it through Storm and on this website. No previous experience with it myself.. Just was throwing things out in the open. ;)

I should be a vet so I can answer more questions.. :lol:

aleethomas

8th February 2007, 07:18 PM

so sorry to hear this! I know how scary it is though and you can't really do anything for them while they're having one. We had a lab growing up and he had seizures. The vet put him on some medication that he took his entire life which stoped the seizures. My dad stopped giving him the pills after awhile because they did change his mood and he would have them at weird times. I would always scream & start crying becuase they were so scary. So giving him the pills was definitely worth it.

I agree with everyone else and think that you should get another opinion and find out what your options are! Good luck!

Karlin

8th February 2007, 07:36 PM

I'm sorry to hear this. You should have him assessed and also join the group on the EFS website -- Barbara Reese who set up that site is a breeder and a great person and may be able to provide some helpful resources to you. I know there are other Irish folks with EFS dogs. :)

I would strongly suggest bringing the dog to Beaufield Vets in Celbridge to see Adrienne if you can; she is familiar with SM and also I believe EFS. Otherwise I'd strongly recommend bringing him to Susan or Fintan or Tanis at Anicare vets in Dublin (there are three offices the vets rotate between, www.anicare.ie), and let any of them know you are a member of my board and that you think you have a dog with Episodic Falling Syndrome. Please try to video him having these fits if you can; a mobile phone video would be adequate. This will help the vets enormously.

There are medications that can help and you want to get him on to this ASAP. Also you want to make sure the seizures aren;t associated with syringomyelia as this also is associated with seizures -- but from the description it does sound like EFS.

Good luck and let us know how he does; I hope medictions will help.

Also: tell his breeder immediately and let him/her know it appears to be Episodic Falling Syndrome. The parents of fitting dogs should never be bred again.

Kodee

8th February 2007, 08:45 PM

Although it would be sad for you both if Sara is right, at least she reported there are medications that can help. Hopefully the places Karlin told you about will be able to see you soon. In the meantime, try to relax and let us know how he does.

Mabes

8th February 2007, 10:29 PM

I'm very sorry to hear this, thats just terrible. I used to have a dog who was beagle/lab mix, and she started having seizures one year. She would just fall down and jerk around and it was so terrible. We would cover her with a blanket because she would be shaking so badly during and after, and you could tell she was confused when she stopped seizing. We later found out that she was diabetic. She slowly went blind, but luckilly we were able to stop her seizures by giving her 2 shots of insulin every day. It was so sad because she was a sweet sweet dog. But I know how scary that can be! All my thoughts go out to you and your pup

Karlin

9th February 2007, 02:55 AM

Forgot to say I also know a vet in Wicklow familiar with EFS so let me know if you'd like that one as well. Not sure which would be closer or more convenient for you.

Sue.k

9th February 2007, 10:14 AM

Thank you everyone for your support and kind thoughts. Karlin thank you for the vet in Celbridge, I know the one your talking about. I have to say my vet has been great, she sent him to hospital straight away when the 1st seizure happened and she has always been on call for me. I will give her the details of Episode Falling, maybe she is not familiar with it. If she looks into it we might be able to get the medication. If I dont get any satisfaction from her I will go to the one in Celbridge.

Thankfully Prince hasn't had an episode in a year, as I said I haven't been brining him on very long walks just is case but if we get the medication he can be a happy boy and see the world. We have just moved to a new house and there are beautiful walks by the canal which I am sure he will love.

thanks again everyone for all you help, I emailed the website about EF and got a very kind email back this morning, it is great to know that there is someone there to help.

Karlin

9th February 2007, 02:41 PM

Ok I am a bit confused... from your first post and subsequent ones, it sounded like he was having seizures right now and you were very worried as these had come from nowhere. But are you now saying he had them over a year ago? But hasn't had any since, and you don't walk him out of concern he might have them again? That changes the urgency and context of the situation considerably -- and is better news of course, too.

Either way, you do need to look into EFS I think, which does sometimes start around 4 months but often stops after the dog gets to be about a year old and hence he would really fir the pattern for the condition morse so that epilepsy or SM or diabetes. I think the seizures on walks were probably a coincidence of timing -- a walk isn't much different from any other tupe of exercise. If he hasn't had them for a full year, I would just get all the info you can on SM, have your vet get further info on this problem and then make a decision on whether he even needs meds at this point. If he hasn't seized in a year, I'd guess he is unlikely to need any medication.

Sue.k

9th February 2007, 03:40 PM

Sorry Karlin :D The 1st seizure he had was at about 6 months and he has loads of different tests done and nothing showed up in any of them. The last one he had was last summer, he had 3 in a row. I never heard of EF and by the sounds of it neither did my vet and the animal hospital in Belfied at least now I can mention it to my vet and see if she can look into it.

Karlin

9th February 2007, 05:20 PM

That's great -- I hope it will help you get the right diagnosis. I was just confused as I thought he'd only just started seizing and was younger. If there's been a time gap that's good... as more severe cases are more steadily having fits. Often they seem to grow out of EFS too -- it is really an odd condition.

If you know the contact you saw at Belfield, be sure to pass along the EFS website link to them if you are able. I know several cavaliers in Ireland that do have this so Belfield should be aware that it can be helped and that it exists as a condition. :thmbsup:

Let us know what you decide to do -- to wait, or try medication? I'd certainly get him out walking though.

Most dogs like most people don't seem to experience pain when having at least some kinds of seizures BTW -- not at the time of the actual seizure. I have known epileptics who say it looks worse than it actually feels. I think the worst bit is just before it happens when you know it is coming on, but it isn't painful per se, though others may know more. They just are out of it during the seizure then gradually come back to awareness.