‘The Avengers: Age of Ultron’ Features New Character Origin; No Ant-Man?

Published 1 year ago
by
Rob Keyes
, Updated December 12th, 2013 at 2:16 pm,

When The Avengers broke worldwide box office records, it was only a matter of days before Disney’s leadership confirmed a sequel. The Avengers 2 got an official summer 2015 release date with the specific note that the film was untitled, leading us to believe that like all of the non-Iron Man films, future Avengers films would utilize specific subtitles instead of embracing a numbering scheme.

At the end of Marvel Studios’ Comic-Con 2013 panel, after footage was shown for the Thor and Captain America sequels, along with Guardians of the Galaxy, Joss Whedon came on stage and announced the title of the next project he’s writing and directing: The Avengers: Age of Ultron.

In chatting with Marvel.com today, Joss Whedon revealed some key points about the title and story Age of Ultron. The most important note is that despite the title, the film is not based on the “Age of Ultron” Marvel Comics miniseries from earlier this year.

“We’re doing our own version of the origin story for Ultron. In the origin story, there was Hank Pym, so a lot of people assumed that he will be in the mix. He’s not. We’re basically taking the things from the comics for the movies that we need and can use. A lot of stuff has to fall by the wayside.”

What’s interesting about the first appearance of Ultron in the late ’60s is that part of mysterious introduction had the character using a brainwashed Edwin Jarvis – Tony Stark’s butler – in his plans against The Avengers. In the films, Jarvis (voiced by Paul Bettany) takes the form of Stark’s assistant AI who has an integral role in his workshop and helping Stark command his Iron Legion of additional armored suits in battle.

In the comics, genius scientist Henry Pym (Ant-Man) is responsible for the creation of Ultron, but if Pym is not part of the plan then Whedon isn’t joking about crafting their own Ultron origin story. The simple theory then is that Stark (Robert Downey Jr.) is perhaps responsible for the creation of Ultron and that Jarvis – in a twist on the Marvel Comics origin – may go rogue.

“We’re crafting our own version of it where his origin comes more directly from The Avengers we already know about. It’s a little bit darker than the other film because Ultron is in the house. There’s a science fiction theme that wasn’t there in the other one. Ultron is definitely something that evolves, so we’re going to get together a couple of different iterations. Nothing can be translated exactly as it was from the comics; particularly Ultron.”

The origin of Ultron stemming from the original Avengers roster adds more credence to the idea that Stark may be involved and such a plot would offer the needed motivator to get Stark back into the Iron Man armor after the events of Iron Man 3. As for there being no Hank Pym in the story, it would be odd for Marvel to not take advantage of their highest profile and most successful brand to help launch one of their riskiest in Ant-Man, a film that happens to come out just months after The Avengers: Age of Ultron. Don’t be surprised to meet Ant-Man, whether its Hank Pym or another incarnation of the character, in The Avengers 2.

Fun Fact: In Marvel Comics, Ultron is the creator of Vision, the eventual android Avenger and love interest of Scarlet Witch.

Thor: The Dark World on November 8, 2013, Captain America: The Winter Soldier on April 4, 2014, Guardians of the Galaxy on August 1, 2014, Avengers: Age of Ultron on May 1, 2015, Ant-Man on November 6, 2015, and unannounced films for May 6 2016, July 8 2016 and May 5 2017.

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clay 1 year ago

Whedon never says Hank Pym wont be in the film. He says, “In the origin story, there was Hank Pym, so a lot of people assumed that he will be in the mix. He’s not.” IS IT POSSIBLE THAT Whedon is referring to the creation of Ultron only and not the movie?

Think about it… What if Ultron is based off of Stark’s brain pattern’s via Jarvis. SHIELD then brings in Hank Pym to help figure out how to stop Ultron. So instead of Pym helping create him he is used to help stop him.

This helps set up Pym’s importance in creating Pym Particles which is the tie in to Scott Lang for Ant-Man movie.

OR…They could still introduce Pym and Lang in this movie as scientist partners who have nothing to do with Ultron plot but still work on Pym Particles.

But I wouldn’t want Lang to play around with Pym Particles. Lang is a electronics technician… oh, wait, they don’t care about canon… *sigh*… anyways, I would rather see Jan work with him, or Bill Foster. I would keep Lang for the Ant-Man movie, to steal the suit. Otherwise, why would he steal it if he and Hank are friends?

You’re dodging around the point that other people are actually concerned about. It’s not enough to just have Pym be “involved” with the story, like a random side character/SHIELD agent. Ultron has to come from him, it has to be Hank Pym’s creation. That’s what everyone who is concerned wants.

In you’re version Ultron’s creation is a byproduct of Tony Stark only, and that ain’t gonna cut it.

I personally have little knowledge of Ant Man and this doesn’t bother me. AND YES I AM A FANBOY. Following Marvel for over 25 years. AND YES I WASN”T THAT BOTHERED BY MANDARIN TWIST. I loved Iron Man 3. Not as great as part 1 but way better than part 2.

Lol. You hit the nail on the head. I was a Spider-man and X-Men follower more than any other.

But..I know the basics about Ant-Man. His powers, him being original member, and his creation of Ultron.

Also (hopefully this isn’t ignorant and wrong)the avengers roster has changed soooo much since the 1960′s. So a lot of their other members I knew better. Black Panther, Vision, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Namor.

Some of you guys will agree with anything– any decision these studios make cause you can’t think for yourselves!

If they decided to go with ant-man, you’d agree. If they decided that upfront was a mummy from Tibet, you’d try and figure out a way to make sense of it and justify their decisions. Such a worship of celebrity and authority. Psychofants most of you are!

While I understand you don’t need to copy exactly what’s in the comics- nor is it practical (Avengers #1 being proof with a Hulk hiding in a circus with clown makeup), I still think you need to respect the fan base that you’ve established and not betray them. The established fans that go back decades supporting the franchise and are as strong as any cult following are not a bracket studios want to turn their back on.

There have been comic book or video game movies that have bombed cause they turn their back on what makes the original story/franchise so popular. It’s at your peril marvel/dc/image/dark horse if you dick over your established fans. Yes find ways to appeal to new fans but recognize what got your franchise where it is. It has a strong foundation. Respect canon but don’t follow religiously.

That being said: I think if stark is responsible for ultron, that’d be interesting. And could lead to civil war In the Future as well.

Nobody is following the studios religiously here, some of us just think it’s best to wait till we have more information. The film is releasing in 2015. You say the studios are right to find new audiences while respecting canon and that they shouldn’t follow said canon religiously yet they might be changing one aspect and that’s a betrayal?

Also if you like the idea of Tony Stark creating ultron why are you or any of the people complaining annoyed? SERIOUSLY, every piece of information your getting up in arms about is 100% pure speculation.

All we know for sure is that Hank Pym won’t be in the Avengers 2 (I know it got a name change) and that the origin story for Ultron is being revised. Mostly since (and this is just my view on the whole matter) you can’t randomly just introduce Hank Pym in Avengers 2, I mean I’m sure Edgar Wright has an awesome introduction lined up for the Ant-Man film.

Besides it sounds as if Hank Pym will be a 1920s Ant-Man so if that’s true then it’s in the right place in the timeline for Hank to have built a cheap version of Ultron. I mean who knows maybe Tony Stark takes the Ultron robot that Hank Pym built not realising there’s a crazy evil A.I operating it.

Making Pym an old man is like throwing us a fans a crumb and expecting us it be happy about it. Pym was a founding member of the Avengers and deserves his seat much more than Black Widow or Hawkeye ever will but that can’t happen if he’s 90 years old (or most likely dead by now)

And I’m not sure how we are up in arms about speculation considering you yourself confirm the VERY thing we are having a problem with……Pym will not be a part of the Avengers. period.

How have I confirmed anything? I said from the sounds of it and this was based off what Edgar Wright said he might be doing with the characters not what he is doing with the characters. Besides it’s not like Marvel doesn’t have anything that can help make Hank Pym young again.

Not being in The Avengers 2 doesn’t mean he won’t influence the events of the film and secondly, we all knew he was getting a stand alone film AFTER Avengers 2.

So why is this all news to you now? What did you think he’d appear in the movie before the movie that establishes him as a character? Lastly, Joss Whedon could just be lying. As I mentioned below these guys don’t owe us the truth, sometimes it’s good to have us go in not knowing what’s going to happen.

Would you be happy if they did a JL movie and only had Batman mentioned as having been an integral part in formation of the group and building of the HQ but never shown? Same exact thing. He deserves to be in all this as an actual person and not relegated to a line of dialog.

And we also know that Pym isn’t getting his own movie…ANT-MAN is. There is a huge difference and there is every possibility that Wright will be using Lang since that has been his goal since the beginning.

I don’t personally read DC Comics but if WB wanted to go in that direction and they had a way for it to work then I’d be all for it, also Tony Stark ISN’T the only part of the group key to it’s formation.

Nick Fury just came up to the guy and said “Hey there’s this group of heroes, wanna be in it?” You know what? Personally I’d rather Marvel set up Hank Pym in The Winter Soldier and used him in Age of Ultron as the creator of Ultron himself.

I’d much rather Quicksilver and The Scarlet Witch had connections to mutants, X-Men and Magneto. Unfortunately I don’t always get what I want. Now I’m not saying we should except the choices these people make or that we have to like them but the film comes out in 2015 and Ant-Man comes out in what 2016?

But just consider this.
1) They may be to many characters in the story
2) Hank Pym as I mentioned above could still be involved, not being involved in the origin could simply mean he Ultron Robot/Ultron A.I and the other comes from another souce
3) Tony Stark’s involvement is just rumors
4) Joss Whedon could be lying

Finally, the theory I’m actually going with is that Hank Pym is already an Avenger and that Ant-Man takes place before Avengers 2. That way Marvel can have their cake and eat it, Ant-Man can appear (I’m assuming here that Edgar Wright is lying about Scott Lang hence Simon Pegg’s comment on Star Trek about lying to avoid spoiling the plot for your fans).

Remember Joss said only the characters we know are already establised as Avengers, he didn’t say if WE meant the audience or the film makers and secondly he never said whether this was in line with the movies already out or chronologically speaking.

Someone told Mongoose he was right so now of course, he must be. NOT. Dude, you’re so wrong in your assessment of things that its starting to border the ridiculous.

I have total faith in Marvel & Whedon’s storytelling ability. They haven’t let me down yet. I call bulls@#t-and-shenanigans on all the people like you who are “hindsight complaining” about Pym not being in Avengers 2. I hate to rain on peoples parade, but this IS Marvel’s CINEMATIC universe. Guess What? (Drum roll) THERE WILL BE CHANGES. Obviously for reasons you aren’t privy to (oh the shame)Marvel has decided not to solely use Hank Pym as the creative force behind Ultron. Fox And Sony can make all the silly and unneeded changes to their CBMs they want and somehow they get a free pass, but Marvel makes changes to THEIR OWN STUFF, and people cry bloody murder. WTF?

Before this announcement, Hank Pym was arguably the least popular character in the MU, but lo and behold; now all of a sudden; limited thinking fanboys (nothing wrong with fanboys, just limited thinking one’s) have the unmitigated gall to complain about him not being in A2. Oh Boo frickin’ hoo. And those same people complaining obviously don’t know or care to remember that in the source material (you know that stuff your saying the movie is not adhering to?), they didn’t reveal who created Ultron when he first appeared either. You didn’t find out out Pym created him until like a year later. So what’s the problem? NOTHING. There is no problem. Just a bunch of whining and complaining for the sake of whining and complaining. Quit all the nick-picking.

I have zero problems with Hank Pym not being in A2. Especially since it just makes more cinematic sense to tie Ultron to Tony Stark’s Tech (if that’s even what Whedon does). It’s ALL speculation at this point.

Oh and dude – comparing this to Batman & the JLA is not even in the same ballpark. They aren’t remotely close. Wow, you are determined to make that square fit through that hole aren’t you?

On another note – this is an awesome time to be a comic book fanboy (like myself). Marvel is ONCE AGAIN proving they are a force to be reckoned with, and WB/DC seems to be finally getting in the game. I also just read a report that Len Wiseman (Underworld) is directing “The Darkness” from Top Cow. I hope my brain doesn’t hemorrhage from all the excellent movies that are coming in 2015.

First off if I was alone in my opinion that would be one thing but I am just one of MANY which don’t like this change. It’s a rather large deviation from what we know.

Also not sure what hindsight complaining is because the movie hasn’t even started filming yet so wouldn’t it be “foresight” complaining?

Yes I have ALWAYS understood that movies can’t be adapted page by page with a story (if you had read many of my previous posts you would know that already but…) In fact what I suggested a number of times is even a variation of the origin story! So to accuse me of being unwilling to accept change is at best ignorant.

“Fox And Sony can make all the silly and unneeded changes to their CBMs they want and somehow they get a free pass”

Free pass? Wtf? I and many others rail on Fox and Sony JUST as hard if not harder for making similar, “silly and unneeded changes” (an apt phrase for this discussion)

And Ant-Man is FAR from the least popular character in the Marvel universe (that numbers in the 1000′s btw) if you can’t come up with anyone less popular you aren’t thinking very hard or know very few of Marvel’s roster. He might be a C lister but Iron Man wasn’t even on the A list until the movie.

JamesF said – You are such a hypocrite it’s unbelievable. Even in your own statements you go against your own words, you want us to all except your own opinions as what they are yet when someone else puts forward their own opinion you come out with “THIS IS AN INCORRECT STATEMENT!”

So what? We’re all not allowed to have our own opinions except for you? Why is your allowed to express your annoyance over Hank Pym not being in The Avengers yet when we express that we’d actually like a new story and not a repeat of the old ones it’s WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, YOUR ALL STUPID LOSERS WHO ARE KISSING UP TO MARVEL AND JOSS WHEDON!
——————————————————

@Mongoose – Just from your statement above alone I now see that you aren’t playing with a full deck. That I have to explain “hindsight complaining” to you informs me of a lot about you.

Hindsight complaining is knowing the outcome of something in one medium (in this case – comic books; in particular one of Ultron’s various origins) and then complaining/whining/crying (like you’re doing) because the same thing being told in another medium hasn’t divulged that outcome yet.

Origin stories have to have a beginning,and A2 is the start (ie origin) of Ultron. I’ve said this countless times but for you (because you’re so special) I’ll say it again. In the comics (you know the source material your whining about?) Ultron’s creator was NOT REVEALED immediately. Hank was actually surprised when he learned that the robot he built was the homicidal killing machine that they were fighting. How many more times do I need to school you? How is that you alone can decide which Ultron origin is viable and which is not?

You seem to think because you don’t know something or because you don’t like something – its not good or its incorrect. Wow. Just because more than one person agrees with you doesn’t make you right. Just ask people in hell if that logic has worked out for them.

Yes this site and others like it are about opinions and if that’s all you were trying to voice then no harm no foul. But that’s not what you’re doing. Anyone who seems to not have an issue with this change, you take it upon yourself to “correct” them. And as long as you feel the need to “correct” others (who disagree with you no less) I will be correcting you because lets face it – you’re just so wrong on so many fronts that it defies description.

Mary Jay 1 year ago

Hm… for the record, Hank Pym is far from the least popular character in the MU. He has a lot of fans, and has had a lot of great stories throughout the years. He’s been very likeable way back in Tales to Astonish, right to Avengers Academy. His version in A:EMH was just great, reminded me of his Tales to Astonish times. Only the “Ultimates” version was a scumbag, who doesn’t have anything in common with the “real” Hank Pym.

I realize you’re pissed at Mongoose right now, and I can understand. But please bear in mind that there are others who like the character and who could be offended by your remark.

Firstly – I’m not pissed at Mongoose. I’m correcting his inconsistencies. He thinks that anyone who does not share his train of thought should be “corrected” and I’m here to show him the error of his ways.

Secondly – I said “arguably the least popular” and if certain people are going to “take offense” on an opinionated genre site to me saying a certain character is not popular then they shouldn’t be here. I didn’t curse Hank Pym or call him a scumbag. I said he was arguably the most least popular character. There are people who think the Scarlett Witch & Quicksilver (whom I absolutely love) are the least popular characters. I don’t get bent out of shape or tell those people that there’s something wrong with them when I read things like that. we just disagree and THAT”S OK.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t SW & QS also Avenger Members at one time (on Earth-616 even)? So them being on the roster is wrong why? I get that not everybody will like all the same characters, but crying about one’s favorite character not making the cut is no reason to jump on people for believing something different than you or disagreeing with you (not you personally. I’m speaking in general terms and about Mr Mongoose). I’m “OK” as long as my opinion lines up with his?

So who decides who the “real” Hank Pym is? You? Mongoose? Other Hank Pym fans? Or Marvel? Where did Marvel write or set in stone that the ONLY real universe is the Earth-616 universe? I’d like to read that endorsement. Also. they’ve recently crossed over the Ultimate and Earth-616 universes in the Spider-Men mini-series. And the official word from Marvel is that more boarder-crossing is on the way. So I’m curious to know what you mean by “real”?

WMX 1 year ago

It seems that both you and ken don’t understand the difference between not liking a choice and predicted that the different choice won’t be done in a good way. Furthermore, stop with the hyperbole. It makes you look like an dumb.

@Askanison40 (sorry, there seems to be a bug, there is no button “reply” at the end of your comment, so I post here) :

I agree with you that whining about something will not make it change. I have stated my disappointment, and now I’m done

Your usage of the word “arguably” is a bit strange, since for example, I don’t like QS and SW, but I would never say that they are arguably the least popular Avengers. I know they are popular to a lot of people. I just don’t like them. I’m not going into an argument about something I know for a fact is not true. I would never say, for example: “onions are arguably the least popular vegetables” when I know for a fact that a lot of people like them, and I don’t. That’s why I wrote my comment earlier.

And I never said that it was wrong to put them in TA2. I just said I don’t care for them

As for my comment about the “real” Hank Pym, I put “real” between quotations marks for that very reason: because it’s just a manner of speaking. And in a manner of speaking, I would say that the “real” Hank Pym is the mainstream 616U Pym. It’s called “mainstream” for a reason.

JamesF 1 year ago

So who is that directed towards? Because I have no problem with somebody not liking a choice but it’s like some people are just announcing that if they don’t get what they want then they’ll boycott Avengers 2 which is kind of childish.

I mean surely we should wait first, you know till some of the trailers come out.

Some of you guys will agree with anything– any decision these studios make cause you can’t think for yourselves!

If they decided to go with ant-man, you’d agree. If they decided that Ultron was a mummy from Tibet, you’d try and figure out a way to make sense of it and justify their decisions. Such a worship of celebrity and authority. Psychofants most of you are!

While I understand you don’t need to copy exactly what’s in the comics- nor is it practical (Avengers #1 being proof with a Hulk hiding in a circus with clown makeup), I still think you need to respect the fan base that you’ve established and not betray them. The established fans that go back decades supporting the franchise and are as strong as any cult following.

There have been comic book or video game movies that have bombed cause they turn their back on what makes the original story/franchise so popular. It’s at your peril marvel/dc/image/dark horse if you screw over your established fans. Yes find ways to appeal to new fans but recognize what got your franchise where it is. It has a strong foundation. Respect canon but don’t follow religiously.

That being said: I think if stark is responsible for ultron, that’d be interesting. And could lead to the civil war In the Future as well.

The problem is that all the Whedon disciples think he does no wrong. Never mind that he has massive plot holes in all his “original” works but they are over looked and poo pooed as nit picking. Hollywood thinks it can ALWAYS write better than comic lore and the string of flops and the few good comic movies proves they cant. Whedon is the epitome of ego out pacing talent.

Hm…I dunno. All the whedon fans in my circles (not talking about online goons I don’t even know, I mean people in my life) like to look for his plot holes and mess-ups. There’s a school of thought out there that critically analyzing something you enjoy (films, food, writers, etc) brings more enjoyment and appreciation of that thing.

Maybe people throw that out the window when they get online, or maybe I just hang out with people who think like this. I thought it was normal and/or widespread, maybe it’s not. What I’m getting at is not everyone who appreciates or enjoys something thinks it’s perfect or has blinders on when it comes to the flaws.

So they like sloppy writing? I cant understand why people simply accept that bad writing is ok as long as it has a couple of stars or characters from a book or comic they like. While TA wasnt bad it could have been MUCH better with common sense corrections.

I’m not saying bad writing should be acceptable, but I am saying that you claiming you have the absolute corner on what is objectively “bad” is silly and preposterous. Some things you may dislike a lot may be sorta “eh whatever” to someone else… or a thing you really love in the plot might seem like a complete turd to someone else.

You’ve got to already know that, so why act like it’s never occurred to you? People like to think they have the objective insight on something that’s almost entirely subjective, but thinking that doesn’t make it true.

I know I’m digging out old news, but considering the director of Winter Soldier (Russo bros) have just confirmed that Winter Soldier will bridge directly to Age of Ultron…

Doesn’t that old rumor of Hammer playing Pym has just become more important than ever, especially when he’s visiting the set with EDGAR WRIGHT. Pym might not appear in Avengers 2, but nobody said he won’t appear in Winter Soldier, right?

Plus, remember that Whedon is a master at manipulating dialogue. He only said that “Hank is NOT in this”, this refers to? The movie? The Team? He never said Hank is NEVER involved in the creation of Ultron. Link that statement to the Edgar Wright/Armie Hammer rumor and BAM! I think we’re getting a good hint of the connection between movies (along with Tony making Iron Legion and Banner is still in touch with him this whole time).

Well, nothing is certain before any official confirmation, but then again, everything is possible as well, so let’s not get our hope down. I hope the ScreenRant team will consider covering about this small speculation of mine, cause this is the type of deduction-news I always loved about this site and the reason I always go here eventhough you guys seemed to get (a bit) left behind with updates. I look forward to read your deduction…

I thought about it too. Some things seem to add up, and still, I think it could only be wishful thinking on my part. There are “signs” that we could see as indications of maybe some appereance by Pym, despite Whedon’s comment. You brought up a few in your clever comment. I would like to add more, and tell me what you think.

First, I agree with this speculation about Armie Hammer, although his name had not really been brought up as a potential Pym before his touring of the CA set. But Wright himself tweeted that he had not been on the set himself. That could be a lie, just like the blabbing Hammer gave as an excuse for having been there. If they start taking pictures of him with a cap on all the time, or with his hair died blonde, then I could consider this even more seriously

And you’re right. No one said Pym would not appear in TWS. Nobody said he would either, but they’re not about to do that anyways. As you said, Whedon didn’t even say Pym would NOT BE in the movie (in those exact words). He said he wasn’t “in the mix”, meaning either 1- not on the team or 2-not part of Ultron’s origin or 3-not in the movie. And come to think of it, why would he deflates such a growing enthousiasm from fans by saying right after the announcement that “Pym is not in the mix”? So that we have time to get used to the idea (and thus allienate a proportion of the fanbase)? Or is it because he realized that people were spoiling his thing by saying Pym is in the movie (and which Whedon might have wanted to keep secret, but that would not be clever since for all the fans Ultron = Pym, and the casual fan would just google it).

Also, the fact that Edgar Wright’s script for Ant-Man, a movie that just follows A2, has been just reworked to fit the MCU, and finished just about the same time as Avengers 2′s script smells a bit fishy to me. Could be just a coincidence though, just like the rest of these suppositions.

All things considered, I’ll try to keep a level mind on this. Yesterday I was really pissed at Whedon for doing this. I am as much today, but since there’s not much I can do about it, what’s the point? It’s either Whedon is lying to protect the secrecy of his movie (if so, thank you for the heartbreak, Josh…) or he plain just doesn’t care for the character and doesn’t want him in his movie. With the treatment he’s been given to the character, or rather lack of, I tend to think it’s the second option.

But we’ll see, I guess. I’m not really optimistic about this. The main thing that pisses me off is that there will be an entire generation of MCU fans out there who will think this origin of Ultron story is the same as it happened in the comics, and that makes me sad.

Your hypothesis that Tony would ironically father an android with daddy issues would work really well for a general audience. If Jarvis does in fact become Ultron, it would bring everything full circle. Marvel Studios is paying RDJ a lot of cheese to wear that armor and they are going to get their money’s worth, continuity be damned.

Jarvis would be the only other “person” that knows everything about Tony’s armor, plus I would love to see Paul Bettany, even if it was in motion captured form, be more than a digitized Alfred Pennyworth.

Hey Carl, maybe you should get your facts right about characters before talking about how lame they are. Hank Pym can do a lot of things but turning into an ant IS NOT one of them. Also, hoping they’ll never make an Ant-Man movie? Well guess what Sherlock, they’ve been developing his own movie since before the Marvel Cinematic Universe was even established.

I dunno how Whedon is gonna crawl around Pym not being in an Avengers movie where his own creation is the villain, I pray to God though it won’t simply be making Tony Stark his creator instead, man that’ll such a cheap alternative.

I think we should take Simon Pegg’s comments on Star Trek into account:
“I lied, I’ve barefaced lied to people when they’ve asked me [about the film] because it isn’t a guessing game. It’s not like if you get it right I gotta go ‘Yes, confirmed.’ No, F*** you”

Bare this in mind. Joss Whedon could be lying so as to not ruin the origin story of Ultron, the biggest problem with trying to keep a script like this a secret is that most of your fans have excess to the same source material your using. Joss can’t just say “Yes we’re using the original origin story for Ultron” since most of us have read that so it wouldn’t be a surprise.

Come on be honest when you were watching The First Avenger, how many of you already knew when Bucky “died” that Marvel was going to go down The Winter Soldier storyline? Maybe that’s all there is to this, Marvel want the Avengers 2 storyline to be kept secret so they outright lied to us, again like Simon Pegg pointed out, it’s not a guessing game where if we guess right the people making and acting in these films have to come clean with us.

Yeah but there was nothing in The First Avenger that said Bucky was going to ‘die’ or become Winter Soldier when we knew he was going to be in the film. Marvel could easily have left Bucky dead if they wanted to but they chose to go with the Winter Soldier storyline route. Okay, it’s looking like HYDRA or something may be more involved with his movie origin more than simply the Soviet Union in the comics but it’s still the Winter Solider. That may contradict this Ultron thing (regardless of who created him, we’re still getting Ultron) but it’s bigger. We’re talking about one of the most famous Avengers villains, who was created by Hank Pym, one of the original members, supposedly having a different creator now. To me, it simply would feel wrong, denying a major Marvel character their involvement in something so big, even though that very character is getting their OWN movie (that we’re being told is an origin story) AFTER Age of Ultron. I can happily and easily disbelieve Whedon for saying Pym will not be involved with the next Avengers film but should he be telling the truth, I’ll be really disappointed.

I don’t think you got the point I was making. Joss Whedon could be lying, we could be getting the original origin story for the movie, Hank Pym could be the creator of Ultron and still be an Avenger. He doesn’t owe us the truth, just like Simon Pegg and J.J Abrams didn’t owe us the truth.

I mean wouldn’t it turn out really awesome if you go in not excepting Ant-Man and then he turns up?

I thought about it too. Yes, it would be awesome, I admit! Although, I really don’t want to get my hopes high, so I really am not convinced of this.

And how can you hide something like that to the public until the movie comes out? There will be pictures taken on shooting locations, things would leak… I mean, if you see a guy walking around outside the studio wearing a red and black leather suit, an actor listed on IMDB uncredited that could fit the part… or even a picture of a guy (or a girl, if we include the Wasp!) hanging from cables in front of a green screen…

I’m playing devil’s advocate here… but nothing would thrill me more if you were right! But as I said, I don’t want to be further disappointed. The news about the Age of Ultron movie, plus the rumors of the Ant-Man movie have already done enough to my mood

If this is in fact true, then Marvel is making a mistake not using Hank Pym(Ant Man) in this origin of Ultron. I mean, he literally created Ultron. This will be an advantageous opportunity for Marvel to introduce Ant Man to audiences not familiar with him and his story by putting him in The Avengers sequel, especially if theyre planning to make a stand alone Ant Man film.

Okay so im a first time poster but ive read a buncha articles on here & comments about the MCU & this is my theory based on Thor 2 Cap2 & A2 (not sure how GotG fits in to all this)… BTW i could be COMPLETELY WRONG but hey here it goes

But the MCU is loosely based on the Ultimates comics correct?
(I’ve only recently started reading these comics, as well as comics in general, because of the movies so yes i know im not the so called “true” fan).

In the comics:
- Bucky (Rogers’ best friend) and Gail (Rogers’ ex love interest) are married
- Cap has a thing with the Wasp (who, along with Pym, won’t be in Phase 2)
- Cap struggles to get used to the modern world
- Loki “betrays” Thor & makes everyone believe he’s insane.
- Black Widow, who is getting married to Stark, goes rogue with the rest of the eastern liberators (& Loki) or whatever?
- Cap gets pinned for the death of Hawkeye’s family & SHIELD hunts him down
- Black Widow is Russian
- Pym creates the Ultron drones

- In the arc ‘Winter Soldier’ Bucky/Winter Soldier is a Russian assassain, & I believe the person behind all of that is Aleksander Lukin?

-In another series i have heard that Widow & Winter soldier are love interests? or something like that.

MCU/Possible Phase 2 movie plots, according to rumors:
- Well from what I’ve read about the Thor 2 comic-con trailer, at the end of the trailer Loki betrays Thor & supposedly cuts off his hand.
- Black Widow & Rogers’ relationship is ‘intimate’
- Cap 2 is suppsedly a “political thriller” where he struggles to get used to modern world , as well as the heaviest ‘SHIELD’ influenced movie ….Redford who is playing SHIELD person Alexander Price also said he’s going to enjoy playing a ‘villain’
- that leads directly into the Avengers 2 and will test ‘where allegiances lie’
- Whedon or Feige or someone else i cant remember also stated how it will closely follow the comic arc but will obviously have to work in other elements.
- Again, Whedon or Feige or someone else i cant remember said that they’re excited for Hawkeye in A2 bc he will have a big role

SOO i think towards the end of Thor 2, Loki will betray Thor because he was part of the Eastern liberators (or whatever they’re called from the Ultimates comics) & cut of Thor’s hand. Now Whedon/Fegie or someone said Loki will NOT be in A2, so maybe Thor does kill him like he said he would in the trailer, or he escapes and just isnt seen in A2 (my guess is he dies). Then in Cap 2/A2, Rogers struggles with the modern world and Black Widow becomes his love interest (taking the place of Stark/Widow from the comics). Like it’s been rumored, Robert Redford who is playing Alexander Price could be actually a front for Aleksander Lukin who is the one who created the Winter Soldier. Since Black Widow is also Russian, she could be under cover the entire time for these Liberators and actually be working with the Winter Solider (&possibly be love interests together like in one of the comics, as well as take the place of Bucky/Gail from the Ultimates). The political thriller ties into how BW is the russian spy we kknow she is, as well as Cap getting blamed for someting he didn’t do. Since Hawkeye and BW have a history as hinted from the Avengers, he could be distrought at the idea of this (in the Ultimates, he said BW & someone else came into his home and murdered his family) and this is why they have said that A2 will be a big for Hawkeye. This is also why this is the SHIELD movie/political thriller that tests allegiances and will lead to Avengers 2: Age of Ultron. Pym will not be in A2 but Ultron obviously will be.and the drones might possibly be introduced in Cap 2 somehow. (Maybe Alexander Price is very high up and authorized the creation of these drones?).

OK, I want the Pym version of Ultron, or you will be moving the marker a ways down the not happy scale for a starting point. HOWEVER–I can accept a different Ultron origin (maybe), IF–Pym gets in there somehow as Giant-Man or Goliath (preferably the 2nd, cuz the early blue & yellow costume is great!). Maybe Wasp as well. To me that is more important than ltron’s origin (although I know many may not feel that way). The Goliath character has alot to offer, and Pym is more than just an up/down elevator man. Essential part of the Avengers origins, and hey marvel, this story/team is called THE AVENGERS, remember?

While I think that they can retcon parts of the story to fit cinematic purpose, changing the origin story of Ultron – notably its creator, is ultimately a wasted opportunity.

If comic-book films are to achieve greater credibility – not just remaining a Summer cash ringing blockbuster of smash’em action, they need to also consider allegory and symbolism in thematic development.

Pym was always a character in conflict with himself, self-doubt, mental instability…despite his apparent genius. He struggled with duality as a knowledge seeking scientist (even foolishly testing on himself) and his role as a violent superhero. His creation of Ultron and subsequent error in its sentience is the mirror to Hank Pym himself. It distills away his inner conflict and doubt and leaves remaining one objective – total domination. In a sense, there is some degree of parallel with Pym and Banner. Their fallible human nature, proving to be the anchor preventing total descent to chaos and unadulterated evil.

It is also wasted opportunity because it sets up Ant-Man’s motivations and ambitions perfectly while retaining the integrity of the characters involved.

If they ever plan to feature the creation of Negative Zone Prison Alpha (Project 42), I hope they don’t tinker too much with that either. It was created by Stark, Richards and Pym.

So… your solution to making them not comic-book movies is to… include more things from the comics… Also it isn’t a retcon. A retcon would mean they were actually morphing canon for a permanent change. They aren’t doing that. They’re two different universes.

Hi there! Ok firstly, Retcon means Retroactive Continuity – the alteration of previously established facts in the continuity of a fictional work.

Changing Ultron’s creator is hence a form of retcon.

Secondly, yes you are right. In this instance, the comic-book provides a good origination for Ultron and if they only dug deeper, they could see the layered meanings and dichotomies between human and robot. In so doing, it could mean a more mature thinking man’s movie. That’s not to say action set-pieces aren’t welcome!

But this isn’t the same continuity. Continuity implies that these event have happened before in the fictional universe, and are being changed. The MCU and 616 are not the same universes, and are not in the same continuity. Therefore this is not a retcon.

After thinking about this for a bit, I’m still bummed about Hank not being the creator-

However,

One route they could take that would actually redeem the change for me a little
was if Ultron and his personality was based on ALL of the current MCU Avengers,
basically, created by somebody above Nick Fury at shield as a replacement (or failsafe if they get out
of control) for the Avengers.

I think the coolest thing about Ultron is how he is based on a human and his weaknesses

If Ultron was based on all of the MCU heroes and designed to beat them in every way, I think that
could be very cool, very scary for the team.

Ok my comment has officially been awaiting moderation for 24 hours now. This is what I said verbatim:-

have a different theory from Rob’s on Ultron’s origin. I don’t think it will have anything to do with Stark at all. I think Whedon would go with the more believable. I think the clue to Ultron’s origin is in the clip of a strange temple in Marvel’s Avengers 2 promo. I think Ultron will be a ‘relic’ from an alien civilization who built a fortress on Earth many years ago. SHIELD is called to investigate. I don’t think the superhero geniuses in the Marvel moviedom are portrayed as near omniscient as they appear in the comics. I doubt Whedon would like the idea of Stark creating something that can challenge a god, the Hulk and the other Avengers. What material would his body be made of? Better Ultron be made of alien material and composition. No human creation. Unless maybe Ultron took control of Jarvis or Jarvis was forced into the essence of the alien relic. But no.. I doubt Ultron will be solely a human creation.

Let’s hope this doesn’t await moderation again unless there’s a problem with having a difference of opinion.

I like having Ultron be the villain, but i also have always liked ant-man(not my top favorite, but i like his contributions to the marvel universe). The title of this says “No Ant-Man?” well maybe that means Whedon won’t have ant-man in there but have Hank Pym. I’ve never heard of the Stark origin for Ultron, but for all we know Pym will be in the movie to maybe help Stark build it, and This will lead into his movie with going farther with his experiments for better mankind. Lets just not rule stuff out 2 years before release.

What I would really like to see is the Ant-Man movie to be based in the 60s, with Hank Pym as Ant-Man. Then as an after credits scene, show Scott Lang stealing the suit which was acquired by SHIELD, or something, sometime in the present. So Lang would be the Ant-Man for Avengers 3. Just a thought. The only problem I see with my idea is a lot of people want to see the Wasp in the Avengers team up as well. And you can’t really have her without Pym. I honestly could care less to see the Wasp in the Avengers films, but fans want her. And it’s not my call.

Fans want Pym too. I don’t think there are a lot of people who want Lang. Lang has never been a very interesting character, very one-dimentional. His daughter Cassie was more popular than him. And he hasn’t been an Avenger for a long period of time in the comics before he got killed. He hasn’t been part of a lot of Avengers story arcs. And since he got back, he’s not been an Avenger.

I don’t see why he should be part of the Avengers in A3. Pym, on the other hand, has been an Avenger for more than 50 years.

People should start realizing that characters who are not Avengers, or who have never been Avengers don’t really have to appear in an Avenger movie…

And this post is a drinking post. Every time you read the word “Avenger”, you should take a sip

Maybe Hank Pym is some kind of Doc Brown type of character and built Ultron in his garage. That way, he is the creator, but not a part of the Avengers. He can be name dropped/referenced and then the Ant-man movie can show the actual events that led to the creation on the killer android (maybe he getting his hands on some salvaged Jarvis A.I. tech from Stark’s destroyed mansion.

Or we could just wait to see what happens, as Whedon does like to misdirect people so that they are surprised by the final product.

In Whedon we trust (remember when he was announced as the Avengers director and some people thought it a mistake? turned out okay in the end didn’t it. i think we should just let the man do his job and stop dissecting and obsessing over every single miniscule comment/titbit of info that is released)

Ok, guys… I think we should all cool down a bit, before the moderator brings the thread down! We obviously have different opinions, and it’s fine. No opinion should be dismissed, even when it contradicts what one believes to be the truth.

Truth be told, there are a lot of people who are pissed at Whedon for discarding one of the founding Avengers in his role as the creator of Ultron. They were already pissed that Whedon didn’t include Pym in the first lineup. Now they’re pissed that not only Pym will not be creating Ultron, he probably won’t be in the movie at all. I’m one of those pissed people.

Some, on the other hand, are cool with it. There is no amount of comments or arguments anyone could come up to that could make me change my mind about the fact that I’m pissed, so I would expect the contrary to be true also. I won’t spend my evening trying to convince people that Hank Pym could be a good addition to the story and the team. He would, in my opinion, but I know that some don’t like the character… don’t really know why, but hey, you can’t please everybody. I will, though, spend any amount of time needed to set facts straight. If someone bashes against Pym on rumors, on ONE panel they saw on someone’s blog, or on things that are not true (or simply for no reason at all), I will be there to correct those false statements. Opinions can be argued, but facts need to get straightened.

I will be entirely honest with you as to WHY I’m pissed. I won’t try to convince you that “they should stick to canon because it’s the way the story goes” or stuff like that. Yes, I think they should have kept closer to canon as for the founding members, but having said that, I realize that the only “founding member” of the Avengers in the MCU is Nick Fury. He recruited the others, so there is NO founding member. Do I think Pym should have been recruited? Yes. But they decided to go another way, so I waited for the Phase 2 movies. And now I’m pissed because what I’ve been waiting for is not still not coming, despite the opportunity to do so.

I’m mad because Hank Pym is my favourite Avenger, and I haven’t been able to see his movie version yet. As simple as that. They had a lot of opportunity to include him, and they chose to go another way. So I’m disappointed. Getting into a pissing contest with others on the Net will not change anything. As a Pym fan, it’s like a slap in the face. I’m hurt, period.

And I think that’s the case for a lot of people too. Considering how people react, the way they start bashing each other, I can tell… they’re hurt. No amount of argumentation will change that. Trying to convince each other that Marvel is wrong, or right, will not change that. I guess we just have to let the news settle in, and move forward, as hard as it is.

Do I think Marvel made a mistake, marketwise? No. Storywise? No, it fits.
Do I wish they would have kept closer to canon, in order to include all the founding members? Yes.
Do I care about SW and QS? No.
Do I think this movie will suck? No.
Am I disappointed? Yes.
Do I want Scott Lang in the Ant-Man movie? Definite no.
Do I dread the Ant-Man movie based on the rumors of a 60s Pym? Hell yes.

There, I voiced my opinion clearly without judgment or bashing at characters

Little food for thought, before I finish…

- There’s a reason Earth-616 is called the “mainstream” universe. That’s why people talk about Pym as the “real” cretor of Ultron. Yes, there have been other versions (well, I know only the Next Avengers flick, but still…). They are called “alternate”. Again, for a reason.

- Your average moviegoer doesn’t know about all the alternate universes thing. They don’t know there are several universes. So they think this is all the same thing. Once it hits the big screen, it becomes IT for the casual fan.

OK. Fair enough Mary Jay. Thanks for coming in and calming things down. Your comment was honest and fair and there is nothing to counter it with but my own humble, & honest opinion.

I’ve been reading & collecting comics since I was ten years old and ever since I picked up my first book (Amazing Fantasy #15) I have envisioned the day I would see those stories on the big screen. Fast forward (across some bumps in the road) to Marvel’s first Iron Man movie and I knew that my wish had come true.

For me personally, it all comes down to the story. Everything else from the actors they choose, to character replacements, is all secondary to me. I’d rather have a great story and some character flip flops than have an accurate roster and a terrible story. Now the argument has been made that why can’t we have both. But a lot of these characters were introduced at a time in our country when things (especially social) were very different than they are now. If Marvel ever introduces Power Man I hope to God they don’t use the original black-ploitation version of that character. I can almost guarantee you that characters like Shang-Hi, The Mandarin, and Power Man, etc in their original form are not going to see the light of day on the big screen unless a serious change is made to them. Sometimes changing a character or full on replacing one is needed to make the STORY relevant and I’m Ok with that as long as the change doesn’t derail the story. I’m more concerned that they get Ultron right than I am of who created him. I’d rather see Ultron wreck havoc than have to sit through a Frankenstein (it’s alive, it’s alive) story.

I refuse to believe that Marvel just arbitrarily decided to not use Hank Pym. There has to be a reason outside of the usual conspiracy theory opinions being offered in this thread. And I get it – fans of Hank Pym don’t care about the reasons. I honestly never knew Pym had so many fans. I personally like the original Scarlet Witch (the Earth-616 version at that) so I was ecstatic when I heard that her and her brother would be in A2 but now Whedon has also said that his version will be based more on the Ultimate Comics version of those two characters. I’m not real happy about that because I’d rather have the emotionally unstable “no more mutants” version instead of the shield agents versions presented in the Ultimates Comics. But that doesn’t mean I think the movie will be bad. Quite the opposite. It’s probably going to rock because as much as I like to think I know everything about Marvels 8000+ roster of characters, I don’t know as much as Marvel does and I have faith that Marvel won’t let me down. Their decision making has been flawless for their cinematic Universe up to this point. So I can at least give them the benefit of the doubt until I actually see the movie. The fact that both Edgar Write and Whedon aren’t using Hank Pym says to me that this is a concentrated effort to tell a specific story. I don’t know their reasoning but I trust them (until they prove otherwise). And I have my ideas as to why they aren’t using Pym, but that’s another conversation.

I am one of the biggest dissenters of Bryan Singer’s X-Men films (even the ones he’s only produced). As a HUGE X-Men fan, I can’t stand those movies (even First Class). And the stuff I don’t like is total fanboy stuff that the average movie goer could care less about. The biggest difference is that to me his stories suck too. BS just totally does not get it IMO. To me the Chris Claremont run (and maybe Jim Lees’) is the only viable X-Men source material so I get the frustration being felt. I really do, but I also realize that I’m in the minority and millions of people love the X-Men films so it must just be me. Obviously Singer is doing something right (I guess).

If its one thing you can say about us fanboys – it’s that we are a passionate bunch.

Personally, I liked Hank Pym as Pym. I feel if he should be featured in Avengers he should feature as himself. His alter egos- Ant-man/Giant man/Yellow Jacket/Goliath-I have doubts over using in film. Two of the characters rely solely on brute force and size, but with Hulk there…brute force is taken care of. (Recall that Whedon said once that he wanted to introduce characters who don’t rely on physical strength as he had noticed that most of the Avengers in the first movie relied basically on that. He wanted diversity, hence QS and SW)Yellow Jacket I just never could understand. Ant-Man? Technically, I never understood his use in combat save maybe for espionage. So plain old ‘gadget Pym’ it is for me. I wouldn’t say I’m a Pym fan per se, neither do I have much interest for QS and SW save for Pietro’s quick temper (which can also be found in Namor- whom I prefer).

Like Askanison40, for me the story is the key. Personally, I’m rooting for my alien technology theory as the genesis of Ultron. It would make for a good story with an absorbed ‘Jarvis consciousness’