Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

We shouldn't split, we should grow. Annex Canada (10 provinces) and Mexico (31 states) to water down Jesusf-ckistan. That also gives us 9 more to pay around with. Puerto Rico, the 4 UK countries, AUS, NZ makes it 98. 2 to go. Atlantic possessions and Pacific possessions.

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

Yes NZ's population is only 5 million, but what does that have to do with implementing a law? Ok so we have a lot of gun owners, we also have a lot of government employees etc. that are available to help facilitate whatever changes might one day be signed into law. New laws are not not being passed because no one has come with a realistic proposal to enact real change, but because the gun lobby has a significant stranglehold on the people elected to get this s**t done.

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

Originally Posted by Kepler

We shouldn't split, we should grow. Annex Canada (10 provinces) and Mexico (31 states) to water down Jesusf-ckistan. That also gives us 9 more to pay around with. Puerto Rico, the 4 UK countries, AUS, NZ makes it 98. 2 to go. Atlantic possessions and Pacific possessions.

The Dumpies are 30% of the US which has 327M people. So, 98M Dumpies.

United Federation of States:

US 327
Mex 129
UK 66
Can 37
Aus 25
NZ 5
PR 5
Other 5
---------
599M

The Dumpies will be 16% of the population.

Why would countries with a modicum of common sense want anything to do with the 100 million crazies who elected Trump and chose Brexit?

"I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

Originally Posted by Slap Shot

Yes NZ's population is only 5 million, but what does that have to do with implementing a law? Ok so we have a lot of gun owners, we also have a lot of government employees etc. that are available to help facilitate whatever changes might one day be signed into law. New laws are not not being passed because no one has come with a realistic proposal to enact real change, but because the gun lobby has a significant stranglehold on the people elected to get this s**t done.

It has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's a strawman argument made by white dudes scared of losing their artificial pen1s enlargements, and social media bots egging them on. It's the, "Sure, we can ban drugs that are obviously super addictive (meth), but is the cost of enforcement really worth it?" specious argument that fatalist, Darwinist libertarians love to advance.

Will it always be a perfect implementation? No, however there's no question that:

1) Enforcement reduces chaos and (ideally, with proper drug diversion funding) encourages treatment options
2) This is a retarded comparison, because certain types of firearms unquestionably have the potential to kill far more innocent people in one fell swoop, than a hit of meth does to an addict

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold

It has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's a strawman argument made by white dudes scared of losing their artificial pen1s enlargements, and social media bots egging them on. It's the, "Sure, we can ban drugs that are obviously super addictive (meth), but is the cost of enforcement really worth it?" specious argument that fatalist, Darwinist libertarians love to advance.

Will it always be a perfect implementation? No, however there's no question that:

1) Enforcement reduces chaos and (ideally, with proper drug diversion funding) encourages treatment options
2) This is a retarded comparison, because certain types of firearms unquestionably have the potential to kill far more innocent people in one fell swoop, than a hit of meth does to an addict

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

A key point: New Zealand is an ISLAND. There is a natural added border that will help enforcement of bans/etc of guns.

Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

Originally Posted by The Rube

A key point: New Zealand is an ISLAND. There is a natural added border that will help enforcement of bans/etc of guns.

Not an excuse to not take action. And even if it were, the vast majority of countries are less isolated than the US and countries with similar levels of domestic security have no problem enforcing gun restrictions.

Originally Posted by dxmnkd316

Yeah, St. Clown and I are just retarded small dicked bots.

You're a respected poster, but I don't know if anyone really knows what your gun POVs are. Not talking about you specifically, but there are some here seemingly taking turns about how they support gun control, while at the same time discouraging action on gun control simply because they don't think it will work (although this is far from proven). This two sided approach hurts gun control efforts and so reactions around here are not too surprising.

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

Originally Posted by 5mn_Major

Not an excuse to not take action. And even if it were, the vast majority of countries are less isolated than the US and countries with similar levels of domestic security have no problem enforcing gun restrictions.

.

Other countries also have a much different attitude towards guns than the average US citizen. I'm for reform, my views have been stated previously, and I'm saying in this NZ case, it will be easier to enforce because it's an island.

Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

Originally Posted by 5mn_Major

Not an excuse to not take action. And even if it were, the vast majority of countries are less isolated than the US and countries with similar levels of domestic security have no problem enforcing gun restrictions.

You're a respected poster, but I don't know if anyone really knows what your gun POVs are. Not talking about you specifically, but there are some here seemingly taking turns about how they support gun control, while at the same time discouraging action on gun control simply because they don't think it will work (although this is far from proven). This two sided approach hurts gun control efforts and so reactions around here are not too surprising.

My POV on guns is that most of them serve little or no purpose. I don't own one, and I never have. There are guns that can be used for legal recreation, and even some in self-defense of the home, from invaders, or the person with certain situations considered. All of these are on the stipulation that they're properly and carefully handled. After that, they're more a burden to life than anything.

However, there is a pervasive mentality throughout this nation that's most unlike what we see in the rest of the world. It's not something so easily handled or dismissed as saying only criminals have this mindset, rather otherwise law-abiding citizens might actually go down fighting because of (insert the varied factors here). We have ideas about why this is, but we have legal barriers to changing the laws. We built 20th century mentality on ideas of a lawless Old West, romanticized it, and now it pervades our culture.

We have to change society before we can turn the guns into scrap metal. If we don't, then there will be even more blood on our streets. There will be political fallout, and it would likely entrench the GOP in office for another generation or two. And it will be a party that changes little, so more Trumps and Pences running the nation.

"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

"One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

Originally Posted by St. Clown

My POV on guns is that most of them serve little or no purpose. I don't own one, and I never have. There are guns that can be used for legal recreation, and even some in self-defense of the home, from invaders, or the person with certain situations considered. All of these are on the stipulation that they're properly and carefully handled. After that, they're more a burden to life than anything.

However, there is a pervasive mentality throughout this nation that's most unlike what we see in the rest of the world. It's not something so easily handled or dismissed as saying only criminals have this mindset, rather otherwise law-abiding citizens might actually go down fighting because of (insert the varied factors here). We have ideas about why this is, but we have legal barriers to changing the laws. We built 20th century mentality on ideas of a lawless Old West, romanticized it, and now it pervades our culture.

We have to change society before we can turn the guns into scrap metal. If we don't, then there will be even more blood on our streets. There will be political fallout, and it would likely entrench the GOP in office for another generation or two. And it will be a party that changes little, so more Trumps and Pences running the nation.

Thanks for that. So if I'm paraphrasing correctly, you're for seriously restricting guns with no hesitation except one big one - that it can't be safely executed on without massive fallout unless society is better prepared for it. And frankly, I understand it as its not for from my feelings about a government mandated program of forcing vaccinations on every man, woman, child without their approval. Personally, I do see the opportunity on vaccinations as not nearly as important as what I consider a currently raging guns crisis.

I would submit that a primary cause of the gun culture is driven by the perception that guns are a psychological crutch to all problems - and many people are fear based. This situation is predicated on conceal carry which creates the illusion that guns can fix your problems. Most other countries have conceal carry. This is a main reason that when gun restrictions are supported overseas, nobody in those countries really cares or even supports it. So I suggest we take one singular tough step and get rid of CC. Its only one specific dimension of gun ownership - you can still use guns to protect your home or use it for recreational use but you just can't threaten someone in a public space. To your point, this may have an initial backlash and could cause an immediate GOP gain...but as with Obamacare, soon society will support it and it will move back to 50/50 governance. As CC is the lynch pin to the fixation on guns, the move will focus guns just on its main uses of home security and recreation. From there, culture changes, people get a more level headed perspective on guns, and security and the Constitution can be balanced from a pragmatic point of view rather than an emotional one.

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

A key point: New Zealand is an ISLAND. There is a natural added border that will help enforcement of bans/etc of guns.

KEY POINT- most of the guns north America are made in the USA. Which means if they stopped making them, Mexico would not have access to automatic weapons. You know, the ones criminal gangs get?

Having them locally made would help enforcement/bans etc of guns.

edit- the reporting has it that most of the guns in New Zealand are from the US, and the expansion of ownership has been largely driven by the US- the NRA. Which explains more that the NRA is more representing the gun industry over the owners.

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold

You know what the US also has on its three () coasts?

Water. Lots of it, in fact.

So, please keep bringing up this argument.

Canada to the north, and Mexico in the south. Sure, the US could stop making guns, but what about all the existing guns in North America, Central America, and South America? They're still out there, and guess what? They'd end up back here. Illegally of course, but they'd still end up back here. NZ and Australia are different animals, as islands. That doesn't even begin to discuss the different societal attitudes associated with guns.

Think of the US as the Chicago of that giant land mass.

Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

Originally Posted by The Rube

Canada to the north, and Mexico in the south. Sure, the US could stop making guns, but what about all the existing guns in North America, Central America, and South America? They're still out there, and guess what? They'd end up back here. Illegally of course, but they'd still end up back here. NZ and Australia are different animals, as islands. That doesn't even begin to discuss the different societal attitudes associated with guns.

Think of the US as the Chicago of that giant land mass.

So since the United States gun manufacturing has likely illegally armed most of North and Central America, we should do nothing? Yea, that's logical.

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

Originally Posted by alfablue

So since the United States gun manufacturing has likely illegally armed most of North and Central America, we should do nothing? Yea, that's logical.

Who said do nothing? I am saying it'll be tougher to enforce whatever laws are passed due to the nature of geography, compared to NZ/Australia. If the US were an island like NZ, it'd be a little easier to enforce the laws.

Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

Re: Guns For Everyone!: Another Mass Shooting!

To be clear, I'm not in favor of a total ban, because some firearms do serve recreational purposes (bolt and lever rifles, shotguns, revolvers). My immediate family owns all of those, though I don't think my dad has actually fired his .44 mag in many years.

But the semi-automatics are what is up for debate. We don't have any of those.