Indian bus rape: Delhi sees rush for guns

Hundreds of women in Delhi have applied for gun licences following the gang rape and murder of a 23-year-old woman by six men in a bus in the city last month.

The news underlines the widespread sense of insecurity in the city, deep before the incident and deeper now, and the lack of faith in law enforcement agencies.

The ashes of the victim of the attack – who died on Friday after 13 days in hospitals in India and Singapore, and was cremated in Delhi in a secret ceremony under heavy security on Sunday – were scattered on the surface of the Ganges river, sacred to Hindus, in northern India on Tuesday.

The case has provoked an unprecedented debate about endemic sexual harassment and violence in India. Tens of thousands have protested across the country, calling for harsher laws, better policing and a change in culture.

6. I agree. The social changes will take a long time to happen

In the meantime, unless one wants to stay home and hide, being armed even with mace seems to be a good idea along with perhaps going out in groups. I would say with a buddy but that did not help this poor woman. What a horrific tragedy. Hopefully it opens up a national dialog for them and empowers the women there to say,"enough".

37. Women defending themselves is a culture change.

2. It's the caste system

The lower castes are fodder for the upper castes. They can beat, rape, humiliate and torment them at will. It is technically illegal, but widespread. I work with a woman in her 50s who was raised there. She denies there is a caste system. We have a technician who also grew up there. He is in his early 20s. He says the Indians you see in the USA are all from the highest caste. He says those from lower castes cannot leave the country. Dalit or "lower-caste" women are raped simply because of their social status.

The Caste system dooms hundreds of millions to deep poverty. It's pretty disgusting.

26. You can lead a horse to water

From the link:"Inspector General Paramjit Singh Gill said that the teenager had been "running from pillar to post to get her case registered" but officers failed to open a formal inquiry. "One of the officers tried to convince her to withdraw the case," Gill, the police chief for the area, told AFP. One police officer has been sacked and another suspended over their response to the alleged incident.

India’s social structure could be at the heart of this tragic story, as The Hindu newspaper reported that the victim was from a low cast “untouchable” family. Meanwhile her suspected rapists come from an influential caste Hindu family. The names of the accused – Gurpreet Singh, Balwinder Singh and Shinderpal Kaur – were mentioned in her suicide note."

Apparently you, for whatever reason, dont want to face what I'm talking about, so I'm done with you. Have a nice day.

31. Im talking about India's rape culture

Cultural differences hide the nature and extent of rape. The two most common forms or rape in India have been describe as Droit du seigneur or authority rape: rape of tenants rape of female employees or the female spouses of male employees. Rape of female subordinates in the workplace as well as caste related and tribal rape. Rape by police, army and the security forces is also seen a specific category. Rape and sexual violence against minors, against wives and within the family is poorly recognised. India's complex social structure is seen to prevent people of lower caste, or from rural India from having access to legal support and the Justice system. The Dalit or untouchable caste have been identified as particularly vulnerable. Bias by police, medical professionals and the Judiciary concerning caste is identified as a factor. Police have been willing to accept bribes from defendants in rape cases, thwarting the legal process.

In 2002 Law Professor Upendra Baxi stated that the political and government systems of India were Rape Culture. Baxi produces a detailed critique of how the governance and politics of India disenfranchise women, prevent them from being able to report sexual violence along with other crime, and concludes that this sets the stage for such violence to be a "perfect crime". It does not require evidence to be suppressed, only that the victim have no recourse before the law.

Baxi stated;

"Rape culture signifies ways of doing party politics and managing governance in which brutal collective sexual assaults on women remain enclosed in contrived orders of impunity.

He stated that he was obliged to speak out under the Indian Constitution which obliged citizens "to renounce practices derogatory to the dignity of women;" Baxi further said;

"The ‘strong’ state makes itself possible by lawless and unconstitutional exertions and endeavours. It fosters practices of national integration that remain deeply and pervasively human rights violative; it emerges for the minorities as an ‘institutionalized riot system’; it remains a - ‘state in search of a nation’ and embodies a resilient rape culture.".

32. There is no rape culture in India

In fact, since India has twice as many women as the US has people, the total number of rapes is actually lower than the US.

The issue is lethargic and apathetic response by authorities to the rape complaints and not an epidemic of rapes.

By and large, Indian culture celebrates gender equality. India has elected a woman prime minister twice and a woman president. Several MPs and ministers have been women. India's first foreign minister (Vijayalaxmi Pandit) was a woman, nearly 50 years before Madeleine Albright.

Hindu religion has very powerful goddesses as well as gods. In fact, anything worth possessing, fame (kirti), wealth (laxmi), knowledge (vidya), intelligence (buddhi), education (saraswati), power (shakti) is a feminine noun with a female goddess associated with it.

What you are implying is that Indian males are somehow more prone to rape a woman than other men in other cultures which is HOGWASH.

I grew up in India and manage three subsidiaries here. In fact, I'm in India right now and what you are ranting about with a two bit internet knowledge and using wildly political links shows that you are clueless. You may equally believe that a Nigerian dictator has left you $128 million and it is all yours after you pay a small fee of say $100K. It is on the internet so it must be true!

35. You totally ignored the crux of what I am saying

You pretend caste violence and rape does not happen, especially in a large city like New Dehli, where there have been 36 documented gang rapes since December 16th. You seek to cover it up, pretend it isnt a problem and pretend instead that it is an attack on all Indian males. It is useless trying to have a rational conversation with you on the subject.

36. Several people told you that the rapes in Delhi

have NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH CASTE.

You found perfunctory, superfluous, banal. mundane and loquacious quotes to justify your position at which you failed miserably. A more rational person would have deferred to people who have first hand knowledge due to being here.

5. I wish you would study a bit more before commenting.

The girl who was raped belonged to the upper caste. The caste system is a vestige of the past and its ill effects remain only in the deep rural areas. No one else follows it. Remember, 58% of India's population is under 30 and grew up without strong feelings about the caste system. This is very similar to how the younger people in the US are more open for gay rights and support gay marriage equality.

The chief justice of India's supreme court is a former "dalit".

While it is true that most Indian-Americans are from the upper castes, it is because of an unfair quota system that reserves >78% of the educational and job opportunities to the so called dalits and they have to go abroad to pursue higher studies. However, I know of many former "dalits" who are prospering in California and one of them also has a very successful IT start-up.

Finally, the caste system was never economic. Most Americans have a wrong notion that upper caste means rich and lower caste means poor. This is not true. It only had to do with social status and was never about wealth. Many lower caste people were far far richer than the upper caste brahmins throughout history.

17. It is generally true, but hopefully changing

I first became aware of this when told by an Indian colleague that it is still the case that the upper/middle classes (effectively what used to be the higher castes) are the ones indeed able to come here.

As higher education becomes more available to those who still must contend with the past/present caste system.

Educational and income mobility have been increasing due to government efforts, but that mobility is still mostly moving about 1 level per generation (out of 5 broken out in studies) - when it occurs. So what mobility that is occurring is going from bottom (level one) to 2cd from bottom (level 2) etc.So the lowest castes are still not nearly at the levels of income or education that they have these kind of opportunities available. Generally indeed most Indian immigrants were from the higher castes, as they have access to the educational levels and resources to gain the opportunities to do so.

Family immigrants will have tended to have been from the same level as the original immigrant, so it doesn't make sense to say that because many immigrants are family based that they may be from a different education/income strata.