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The FiC News & Politics Improvement Committee

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The Community Outreach Mod

I've been pondering my role on the FiC moderation staff and how best to chart the course for FiC's future as an obscure internet forum for some time now. My conclusion regarding what I personally can do and how to best invest my time and energy is that I need to focus on the News & Politics sub-forum.

I've been passionate about politics my entire life and I have a deep respect for the believes of others and their freedom of speech.

Now that that's out of the way I want to introduce the Fic News & Politics Improvement Committee. A pinned thread where we as a community can discuss the nature of this subforum and how to better archive it's goals. I don't claim to be the soul decider of what News & Politics should strive to be, but as I see it we have two objectives as of now.

Facilitate debate between a diverse group of posters and their widely varied opinions and views.

Encourage said debate to be constructive for as many parties involved, but not nessisserally nice or even civil. The goal should be for everyone to feel they got something out of the exchange and that their time wasn't wasted.

With that out of the way I'm opening the floor to you our community members to start discussion.

Yokkiziikzekker

I've been pondering my role on the FiC moderation staff and how best to chart the course for FiC's future as an obscure internet forum for some time now. My conclusion regarding what I personally can do and how to best invest my time and energy is that I need to focus on the News & Politics sub-forum.

I've been passionate about politics my entire life and I have a deep respect for the believes of others and their freedom of speech.

Now that that's out of the way I want to introduce the Fic News & Politics Improvement Committee. A pinned thread where we as a community can discuss the nature of this subforum and how to better archive it's goals. I don't claim to be the soul decider of what News & Politics should strive to be, but as I see it we have two objectives as of now.

Facilitate debate between a diverse group of posters and their widely varied opinions and views.

Encourage said debate to be constructive for as many parties involved, but not nessisserally nice or even civil. The goal should be for everyone to feel they got something out of the exchange and that their time wasn't wasted.

With that out of the way I'm opening the floor to you our community members to start discussion.

Nice! I like this... I guess to keep it simple and not distract from your original stated goals while simultaneously contributing, I'd like to propose perhaps special reactions for the N&P forum. For example, instead of simply 'likes,' there could also be an 'informed' reaction, or 'amused'... and so on and so forth...

Our dreams of conquering the heavens are about to morph into a hell-bound nightmare. When a team of scientists, engineers and pioneers take the first steps toward an FTL drive, they unwittingly unleash a horror the likes of which no human, transhuman or AI before - or after - has ever before witnessed.
The event sends shockwaves across space and time. Planets and governments are on the brink of war. An arms race the likes of which our universe has never seen is underway. And something else has the Solar System as a whole in its crosshairs,
and it approaches with a fury hotter than the Sun,
and faster than...

The Community Outreach Mod

Nice! I like this... I guess to keep it simple and not distract from your original stated goals while simultaneously contributing, I'd like to propose perhaps special reactions for the N&P forum. For example, instead of simply 'likes,' there could also be an 'informed' reaction, or 'amused'... and so on and so forth...

Self-proclaimed FiC official absinthe provider :)

Nice! I like this... I guess to keep it simple and not distract from your original stated goals while simultaneously contributing, I'd like to propose perhaps special reactions for the N&P forum. For example, instead of simply 'likes,' there could also be an 'informed' reaction, or 'amused'... and so on and so forth...

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them." Karl Popper.
"We have a word for people who discriminate people for their skin's melanin index, not because they hated other people, but because out of a hope for restored equality, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed. That word is “-'racist'."Rufus Shinra.

Yokkiziikzekker

Our dreams of conquering the heavens are about to morph into a hell-bound nightmare. When a team of scientists, engineers and pioneers take the first steps toward an FTL drive, they unwittingly unleash a horror the likes of which no human, transhuman or AI before - or after - has ever before witnessed.
The event sends shockwaves across space and time. Planets and governments are on the brink of war. An arms race the likes of which our universe has never seen is underway. And something else has the Solar System as a whole in its crosshairs,
and it approaches with a fury hotter than the Sun,
and faster than...

Self-proclaimed FiC official absinthe provider :)

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them." Karl Popper.
"We have a word for people who discriminate people for their skin's melanin index, not because they hated other people, but because out of a hope for restored equality, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed. That word is “-'racist'."Rufus Shinra.

The majestic cock

I think I have suggested this elsewhere, but how about a thread for the compilation of various members' inside jokes and particular quirks in rhetoric, of course being a purely voluntary thing where people post their own quirks for review (and not other people's). Entries would be put in spoilers of course (jokes tend to lose their effect if already shown, as with quirks losing their magic). Of course mods will still have the final say if the jokes/quirks are kosher for the forum or not.

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis

You'll probably have to make a separate set of rules for the politics forums here, with suspension of all posting rights (including likes/informatives/what-have-you) for a period of time... but that'll likely require you to use the infraction point system as well...

The Community Outreach Mod

I think I have suggested this elsewhere, but how about a thread for the compilation of various members' inside jokes and particular quirks in rhetoric, of course being a purely voluntary thing where people post their own quirks for review (and not other people's). Entries would be put in spoilers of course (jokes tend to lose their effect if already shown, as with quirks losing their magic). Of course mods will still have the final say if the jokes/quirks are kosher for the forum or not.

You'll probably have to make a separate set of rules for the politics forums here, with suspension of all posting rights (including likes/informatives/what-have-you) for a period of time... but that'll likely require you to use the infraction point system as well...

The Community Outreach Mod

Would you say that the FiC staff aren't currently practicing this behavior well enough or are you merely pointing out that this is a nessissery element of an effective moderation staff so it is not forgotten or discarded.

Proletarian Puncher of Steaks

Perhaps SV's method of deciding punishments (voting and a little faux-trial thing where accused can debate rules in their defence before "judges" decide on whether to keep or lower punishment), nothing quite so complex but merely having a second voice on any permament bans might be an idea (and we could elect one or two people for that position)

The Community Outreach Mod

Perhaps SV's method of deciding punishments (voting and a little faux-trial thing where accused can debate rules in their defence before "judges" decide on whether to keep or lower punishment), nothing quite so complex but merely having a second voice on any permament bans might be an idea (and we could elect one or two people for that position)

On one hand I think more democracy is almost always a good thing (maybe not the most effective thing though). On the other I think SV's fetish for RPing as lawyers leads to an unwarranted sense of self seriousness and an inflated sense of importance and power that is ultimately unhealthy for the site and its members.

Ultimately when it comes down to it internet forums like SB, SV, and FiC are autocratic entities with the site owner as the supreme authority. Any form of democracy is ultimately at the behest of Horton and our "courts" kangaroo in nature.

As long as Horton has sole ownership of FiC it's impossible to put any checks to balance his power and leverage some forum of democracy.

Hypothetically the community can pressure the staff to change by voting with their feet so to speak and to that end I agree with @ScreenXSurfer that transparency is vital to the wellbeing of the site.

I just don't know about working votes into the day to day operation of the site.

SB's Minor Junker Descendant and Hunter of Nazis

Would you say that the FiC staff aren't currently practicing this behavior well enough or are you merely pointing out that this is a nessissery element of an effective moderation staff so it is not forgotten or discarded.

It's the necessary element of effective moderation staff that CAN NEVER BE FORGOTTEN OR DISCARDED. That would also mean that the Staff will also have to have their own system of rules that are specific to them and them alone with even the creator being subject to them.

Member

You can't have a healthy forum if users are posting racism, Nazi apologetics, etc or trying to act like they're doing it 'ironically' or purposefully being disruptive. From what I've seen there needs to be stricter enforcement of Rule 5 (enforced by moderators who actually know what it is) and a crackdown on shitposting.

Tolerating bigotry, fascism, etc. is not the way to go.
To quote Karl Popper:
"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."

Gone

You can't have a healthy forum if users are posting racism, Nazi apologetics, etc or trying to act like they're doing it 'ironically' or purposefully being disruptive. From what I've seen there needs to be stricter enforcement of Rule 5 (enforced by moderators who actually know what it is) and a crackdown on shitposting.

Tolerating bigotry, fascism, etc. is not the way to go.
To quote Karl Popper:
"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."

Oddly enough this matches up with what I said way back in the thread about adding a bad faith rule, and what the mods of RPG.net said when banning trump support. You either have a place where bigots have free speech, or you have a place where people who aren’t bigots actually stick around.

Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but because out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed. That word is “Nazi”.