Tofulish, are your friends not into the same tv shows as you? Since I mentioned this in another thread, one of my friends got pregnant and I would often go over to her house just to eat dinner and watch tv, which is why being dropped for (seemingly) being childless really bugged me, since i'm not like 'weeeee let's go out and shop and eat and drink'. I mean, obviously you want to get out of the house sometimes, but I don't see why people can't come over and chill with you guys.

Or maybe invite your vegan friends along to a fun kid place, like one of those interactive science museums or (when it's warmer) a water park. Adults love that shiitake, no matter how mature they pretend to be.

Yeah, that's a good call! When all my friends started having babies I was worried we wouldn't know how to hang out...because in grad school we admittedly did spend our time together drinking wine, going to shows, eating out, writing together at coffee shops. But now I go over to their houses to chat or we go somewhere fun like MBM suggested and it's so fun/vegan-friendly for the most part. Selfishly, I get to be around cute kids but not have to have them myself. :)

I wouldn't want to deal with non-vegan parent playgroups/family either. The idea of having to constantly have to bat food away from a kid's mouth makes my ovaries slam shut. It sounds like more stress and work than wrangling the toddler themselves.

Word.

I am a governor of a local primary school, and a vegan parent recently requested that we ban all food at all events held by the school. The child is not only vegan, but has allergies as well, and it's the allergies that are causing problems. (Actually, it's the parents who are causing problems, the school has risk-assessed the hell out of everything and has trained professionals who can get an epi-pen in your asparagus faster than you can say "Miss, Timmy looks funny").

I appreciate it's different for playgroups because of the ages involved, but all the children I've worked with know not to eat things they can't eat, and they are going to make their own decisions sooner or later, so letting them do so in an environment full of people who really know their shiitake might set them in good stead for the future.

Anyhoo: my pet peeve is not really a vegan-specific one, but someone I know is posting about hunting on Facebook and I've had to ban myself from going off on one at her before.

_________________Moon - "This is the best recipe in the history of recipes forever."

I appreciate it's different for playgroups because of the ages involved, but all the children I've worked with know not to eat things they can't eat, and they are going to make their own decisions sooner or later, so letting them do so in an environment full of people who really know their shiitake might set them in good stead for the future.

And obviously its not a "can't" and "can" but how are you going to distinguish a muffin for a kid who gets egg/dairy free muffins at home even if they are older?

Hell, when I was first vegan, we ate at a vegan Chinese restaurant all the time (well still do but..). We decided to try a non-veg Chinese restaurant that was closer to home, it had a large vegetarian section with mock meats. I was shocked when I ordered a dish I had ordered many times before in the other restaurant and saw it came with egg. I had never had the dish before in a non-veg restaurant so seeing egg was a surprise. My norm was the vegan dish though so I didn't even think that the vegetarian dish would have egg and I'm an adult who should've known better.

_________________You are all a disgrace to vegans. Go f*ck yourselves, especially linanil.

I like the mothers in all the groups. They are very level-headed, generous, intelligent and kind and I really appreciate their friendship. Its just hard when every playdate involves non-vegan snacks (try telling a 15 month old - no you can't have the crackers because there is a bit of dairy in them and we don't want to support torture) and when people tell you about their dinner last night and you kind of want to flinch because you hear veal and think baby cows stuck in boxes starving to death and they hear yummy deliciousness with cheesey potatoes on the side.

And as for TV, she goes to bed at 7ish and the process can be anywhere from 30 mins to 3 hours, so I would be a terrible host.

Tivo/DVR/hulu and invite them over around 9? Or they can make dinner while you put her down and if she's being horribly difficult, Brett can take her. I think if you are honest and upfront about the scenario that awaits them, at least a few people will still come over. Obviously if they don't like cooking or go to bed early/have to work the next day it wouldn't work out. Or Saturdays!

Brian and I were friends with a couple (now divorced) who had a kid in high school, we lucked out because that kid would sleep through WWII, we could be playing video games as loudly as possible in the living room and she would never wake up. But we always defaulted to going to their house even though it was outside of town because they had a kid, and usually no one cared.

_________________"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear

Thanks for the solutions. I think I just miss having a community, more than individual friends. We don't do TV and we co-sleep, so once she is in bed, I'm with her (she also wakes up every few hours and wants to nurse). And taking a toddler anywhere is like opening a box of kittens - they just go everywhere and have no idea how not to kill themselves. I went to a park with L and a few friends and we were talking and I had to keep leaving the conversation to chase her down, bring her back, stop her eating glass, stop her drinking out of puddles (she literally bent from the waist and stuck her face into the most disgusting puddle you've ever seen). It was not relaxing and my friends all felt not so validated. Brunches at our house do well - but again, its more about having community, and friends for both L and me to hang out with.

_________________My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

I'm sure this was mentioned before, but I've seen it on this forum recently: My pet peeve is calling certain foods "proteins". Protein is a nutrient, not a food. Pretty much every food contains proteins (highly refined such as oils and sugar excluded). "You need a protein, a vegetable and a grain" sounds like you need to eat meat imitation every day or you'll get Kwashiorkor or something. The truth is, if, for the whole day, you eat only rice, or only barley, and get enough kcal from it, you'll get enough protein and RDA of every essential aminoacid. (Corn and wheat don't provide enough lysine.) Same is true for every vegetable I have checked (including potatoes).

Yeah, kid-friendly times are the best! The cuteness! The excuse for adults to sing silly songs and watch cartoons! (Not that I need an excuse...)

I was very lucky in that I actually had really amazing neighbors next door when I was growing up that my parents quickly became friends with. Although they were childless, the husband was always up for letting us play in his boat while he was working outside or helping my brother and I to look for lizards in the woods. The wife was really awesome, too, although she wasn't much of an outdoorsy person so she mostly did indoors activities with us and helped babysit or take care of us if my parents were out of town for some reason. I pretty much thought of them as a second set of parents. I wish all adults knew what kind of positive impact they could have on a child's life by sharing their interests and knowledge with them. I know not everyone is up for that task, but I think a lot just don't really think about it! They figure, oh, they've got great parents, so they don't need me...

I can't come up with a vegan pet peeve right now, so sorry to derail! Haha.

I'm sure this was mentioned before, but I've seen it on this forum recently: My pet peeve is calling certain foods "proteins". Protein is a nutrient, not a food. Pretty much every food contains proteins (highly refined such as oils and sugar excluded). "You need a protein, a vegetable and a grain" sounds like you need to eat meat imitation every day or you'll get Kwashiorkor or something. The truth is, if, for the whole day, you eat only rice, or only barley, and get enough kcal from it, you'll get enough protein and RDA of every essential aminoacid. (Corn and wheat don't provide enough lysine.) Same is true for every vegetable I have checked (including potatoes).

Well there are a couple reasons for this but mostly I assume people are looking for foods higher in protein. Things like tofu, leafy greens, quinoa, amaranth, beans, seitan, etc. If you find yourself lower on the protein scale, you may seek out foods that are higher just to balance yourself out. Personally, I don't really worry about it.

_________________You are all a disgrace to vegans. Go f*ck yourselves, especially linanil.

I don't think they refer to leafy greens (because, they are vegetables) or pseudograins (they are usually considered grains). I'm afraid such classification only enforces the belief that many meat-eaters hold, that we either have to eat meat or meat imitations, so that being vegan is more expensive.

I'm surprised how many vegans don't eat legumes because "they're gassy". My first thought is "what do you eat then", but then I remember raw-foodists who don't eat them either and can get enough of every nutrient.

It depends on the context but I'd say 90% of our meals contain a grain or grain-like item (brown rice or millet are fairly common), a bean dish (could have veggies) and a side veggie dish (often greens but could be something else). Now someone might call the bean dish 'the protein' and per calories, it probably does contain more protein than the other parts of the meal but everything has some protein. We just tend to eat a lot of beans.

On the other hand, if someone wanted to increase their protein intake, I'd start listing the items I mentioned previously including pseudo-grains and leafy greens.

_________________You are all a disgrace to vegans. Go f*ck yourselves, especially linanil.

I appreciate it's different for playgroups because of the ages involved, but all the children I've worked with know not to eat things they can't eat, and they are going to make their own decisions sooner or later, so letting them do so in an environment full of people who really know their shiitake might set them in good stead for the future.

And obviously its not a "can't" and "can" but how are you going to distinguish a muffin for a kid who gets egg/dairy free muffins at home even if they are older?

You tell the school about your child's dietary requirements and they label which muffins are vegan and which aren't. The teachers will keep an eye on what the child eats. In "my" primary school, there are dietary requirement lists in the classrooms and the staffroom, and all food is risk-assessed (which is basically checking for use-by dates and relevant verboten ingredients).

Similarly, I've had 7-year old muslim children ask me, as though it were nothing, whether the gummi bears had pork in or not, and then eat the chocolate buttons instead because they did. Children aren't stupid, and if they grow up knowing that it's okay to ask if something is kosher/vegan/halal/Ital etc, they'll ask.

I don't want to derail this thread, but that is how it has happened from my experience of working as a classroom assistant and volunteering as a school governor.

_________________Moon - "This is the best recipe in the history of recipes forever."

Ha! I don't know yet. It depends on whether there is a next season, and how bad it is. We don't have a television, but I will watch shows like Parenthood on my laptop, when she sleeps. I don't think that would work for entertaining though... Especially because I doubt most of my friends want to watch me sidenursing through it....

_________________My oven is bigger on the inside, and it produces lots of wibbly wobbly, cake wakey... stuff. - The PoopieB.

I don't think they refer to leafy greens (because, they are vegetables) or pseudograins (they are usually considered grains). I'm afraid such classification only enforces the belief that many meat-eaters hold, that we either have to eat meat or meat imitations, so that being vegan is more expensive.

I'm surprised how many vegans don't eat legumes because "they're gassy". My first thought is "what do you eat then", but then I remember raw-foodists who don't eat them either and can get enough of every nutrient.

Quoting because my vegan pet peeve is still gas. I still eat everything that gives me gas though.

_________________I would eat Dr. Cow pocket cheese in a second. I would eat it if you hid it under your hat, or in your backpack, but not if it was in your shoe. That's where I draw the line. -allularpunk

that old adage that girls don't fart has not been around this vegan chick! :P

Ain't that the truth! I'm tooting up a storm, since I ate so much of that cultured sharp cheddar yesterday...

_________________Did you notice the slight feeling of panic at the words "Chicken Basin Street"? Like someone was walking over your grave? Try not to remember. We must never remember. - mumblesIs this about devilberries and nazifruit again? - footface

I think probiotics were helping my gas, but then I ran out of them. It's been ridiculous the past few days.

_________________"If I were M. de la Viandeviande, I would now write a thirteen page post about how you have to have free will to be vegan, but modern science does not suggest any evidence for free will, therefore it is impossible to be vegan." -mumbles