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Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

deletions lead to screams of censorship and then we all have to spend an evening focused on that topic. I can see why the mods get a bit frustrated with that solution.

If its meddlesone chatter then dump it. If its a valid conversation, yet doesnt fit the topic just split it off.

I think that points are not warranted for hijacking. just an opinion of mine... not nessesarily the right thing to do.

I have been told in no uncertain terms that once you start a thread you open the pandoras box and you cant controll the direction of a conversation.

that is the confusing part for me, I guess.

well, its true about the screaming that happens when posts are deleted...so i will withdraw my suggestion about just deleting hijacks.

but i agree. hijacks just doesn't warrant points. And honestly in my opinion, if it isn't a rule then one shouldn't get a point(s) for it or even the suggestion that a point will be given.

if it's annoying folks or intimidating them i understand and we need to be more considerate. Assigning points and/or warnings isn't the way to handle it (in my opinion); for folks who do mind I really wish someone would offer up some suggestions on what they think might work

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Here we have a thread started by TheBled that was a sincere question about thread hijacking. There was discussion about it throughout all of page one, most of page two and three.

This was a serious enough themed discussion that 3 admin-mods replied in the thread, including JD.

At about post 66 to 83 the thread derailed into nothing but a private playground, and that TheBled's thread could be now treated as a hijack thread. Who is that fair to? This thread was important enough for JD to address, and now it's a series of hijacks. I'm disappointed. If it continues this direction, I shall just move it to Fun and Games. Here's a fun game here - here

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

With all due respect Z and Goula (congrats by the way on mod status ) this thread was near the top of page one of the forum for a good 2 days or so and very few different folks posted in it. a couple of us offered up some suggestions, no one added to it. No one responded to them. I was surprised to see JD post in here and felt sorta....honored for lack of a better term, that he felt the issue was important enought to add his thoughts. It did go off topic with TheBled adding in on that. If i recall correctly it was stated that when the author of the thread participated in a "hijack" that was a different story as opposed to other hijacks that might intemidate whoever the author of the thread was. the hijack in this thread, as lube pointed out, was in humor and poking fun at this thread topic.

i don't buy the theory that others passed up posting because they'd be laughed at or whatever, because as Z pointed out the thread remained on topic until near the end of page 3. it's been my observation that a heck of a lot of people don't read all the pages of a thread before they post. so i don't see that as being likely that they were intimidated by the "hijack" that took place.

I am disappointed at the two recent responces by mods here. That reaction is no more fair than the implication that "all" members of the board had, had their say in this thread, which obviously isn't true; however, the thread did sorta fade out. At this point i see the thread has had 962 views, 86 posts, 11 by andreus, and 7 by me. the author of the thread posted 5 times. it's even marked with the red "hot thread" envelope.

I offer up another suggestion...someone make the thread a sticky and the rest of us agree to not hijack it further, then see how many more responces/suggestions we get in a week or so?

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Mikey,

Once a thread has been derailed, you simply have no way of knowing how many guys and gals avoid posting an on-topic post in the thread because now it's so far off track. To me the question is not, "has this thread outlived its vitality for the original topic?" but rather, "Who can decide for this entire community that there's nothing left to contribute on topic to the thread??" Would you find it equally acceptable if someone just started bumping old threads from page gazillion with a bunch of off-topic posts? Those are now worthless threads too, by this standard you seem to suggest.

If the thread is going to go off topic, so be it. My reaction is almost always disappointment. Whatever the case may be, those threads will frequently end up moved to F & G.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

respectfully

it is obvious that the bled does not want his thread protected, since he is one of the people that participated in the party. Isn't that what was said? if a thread starter hijacks his own thread then it doesn't matter?

respectfully

it is obvious that the membership doesnt feel abused by fun hijacks in threads. its been almost two days and no one took the topic seriously enough to post constructive sollutions but Mike, kahiah, SB, GSDX and I, as JD asked. I have yet to see a topic that people cared about at JUB that they were scared away from posting in. if people arent afraid to post about rape and underage sex when offended, I cant imagine why they would be afraid to jump on this thread like gangbusters if they really cared. JD's post is stamped...August 22nd, 2006, 01:36 PM ...there was no real hijack until Bradlees post at...August 23rd, 2006, 10:59 PM ... There was not much response at all.

that was a day and a half for people to respond unmolested in any way if they had any desire whatsoever to. while a few did, thousands were too busy watching porn and gossiping to care about this topic.

the majority of the feedback that has been given has said that they dont really agree with the moderator's approach to the whole issue.

Why infer that the guys have harmed or intimidated anyone at this point? Are you guys angry that the feedback JD asked for and got was not in agreement with the moderator actions?

Do you guys really think that just because no one has agreed with you that it means they are scared to post? could it be that they just dont agree?

I just dont understand any of this.

I dont understand why no one offered JD input over the course of a day and a half, and I dont understand why people are getting so angry about the whole thing after the fact.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Here we have a thread started by TheBled that was a sincere question about thread hijacking. There was discussion about it throughout all of page one, most of page two and three.

This was a serious enough themed discussion that 3 admin-mods replied in the thread, including JD.

At about post 66 to 83 the thread derailed into nothing but a private playground, and that TheBled's thread could be now treated as a hijack thread. Who is that fair to? This thread was important enough for JD to address, and now it's a series of hijacks. I'm disappointed. If it continues this direction, I shall just move it to Fun and Games. Here's a fun game here - here

Originally Posted by Goula

Did you canvas the other 72,887 members to discover if they had, in fact, had their say? Perhaps people stopped posting serious responses because they saw what the thread had degenerated into, and perhaps people who hadn't had a chance to view the thread, and who perhaps may have wanted to venture an opinion figured it wasn't worth the effort, because they'd just be laughed at, or be made fun of, for having the audacity or the balls to venture in where they're not wanted.

That is what this type of behaviour is saying in a thread like this: This is our ground, and you worthless sh-ts can just keep the Hell out.

I know I'm going to catch hell for this somewhere down the line... In my humble opinion, you two need to get a grip here. You are all making a mountain out of a mole hill. Yeah, hijacking is both annoying to some people and just par-for-the-course for others. This is a Gay Men's Entertainment Forum for heaven's sake. Not some super-serious, geo-political discussion forum. And the threat to move the thread to F&G is just... low.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Originally Posted by GL247

I know I'm going to catch hell for this somewhere down the line... In my humble opinion, you two need to get a grip here. You are all making a mountain out of a mole hill. Yeah, hijacking is both annoying to some people and just par-for-the-course for others. This is a Gay Men's Entertainment Forum for heaven's sake. Not some super-serious, geo-political discussion forum. And the threat to move the thread to F&G is just... low.

So are you saying that it is acceptable for you just to annoy some people because you know best when a thread is finished? And would you find it okay to just start bumping old threads with off topic posts??

let me run this idea by you (not my idea - wish I could take credit for it but I can't) :

What if every thread started by the thread starter had a signal in it, as to how they felt about hijacks? That is, what if the title of the thread always had an "OPEN" or "ClOSED" in it to indicate whether hijacks were welcome? I.e. (and this is just a hypothetical) "FDA allowed morning after pill with no prescription - CLOSED" and "Pluto is not a planet - OPEN" - what do you think of that idea?

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Originally Posted by TheBled

You know what, GL made me think of a good point. If this thread was moved to F&G, that would basically mean, no one would be able to add a serious reply to it again, so it turn it wouldn't really be us denying the thread anymore serious replies, as it was intended in the first place.

However at some point a thread is so very hijacked that it's not restorable - a good example of that was hot cute or neither.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

I'm not aware i was attempting to suggest any kind of standard. I was mearly pointing out that to say the thread had been hijacked and suggesting it was't given a chance after 2 days of being near the top of page 1 of hot topics wasn't, in my mind, accurate.

the thread only went off topic for about a page. out of four pages that's not that much and it's now very much on topic. so once again i suggest it be made a sticky. you may not know how many folks would have replied if it hadn't gone off topic for 15 posts, but you also don't know how many people wouldn't have replied even if it had stayed on topic up to this point. as i said there were over 900 views of the thread and only a handful of people bothered to post. i would suspect that Who posts in a thread is more indicative of whether other people are intimidated by it or not. Especially when one of the owners of the site posts (which i'm very glad he did).

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Originally Posted by Zeremonie

let me run this idea by you (not my idea - wish I could take credit for it but I can't) :

What if every thread started by the thread starter had a signal in it, as to how they felt about hijacks? That is, what if the title of the thread always had an "OPEN" or "ClOSED" in it to indicate whether hijacks were welcome? I.e. (and this is just a hypothetical) "FDA allowed morning after pill with no prescription - CLOSED" and "Pluto is not a planet - OPEN" - what do you think of that idea?

i believe that is the only suggestions that drew and i came up with that might work. back on like page 2. Although you put it much clearer.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Originally Posted by Zeremonie

So are you saying that it is acceptable for you just to annoy some people because you know best when a thread is finished? And would you find it okay to just start bumping old threads with off topic posts??

Mel, I'm not an idiot. I can tell when a thread is serious and deserves to be treated in that fashion. Conversely, I know the members with whom I can have fun with. I didn't fall of the turnip truck just yesterday.

Originally Posted by Zeremonie

let me run this idea by you (not my idea - wish I could take credit for it but I can't) :

What if every thread started by the thread starter had a signal in it, as to how they felt about hijacks? That is, what if the title of the thread always had an "OPEN" or "ClOSED" in it to indicate whether hijacks were welcome? I.e. (and this is just a hypothetical) "FDA allowed morning after pill with no prescription - CLOSED" and "Pluto is not a planet - OPEN" - what do you think of that idea?

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Originally Posted by Zeremonie

So are you saying that it is acceptable for you just to annoy some people because you know best when a thread is finished? And would you find it okay to just start bumping old threads with off topic posts??

let me run this idea by you (not my idea - wish I could take credit for it but I can't) :

What if every thread started by the thread starter had a signal in it, as to how they felt about hijacks? That is, what if the title of the thread always had an "OPEN" or "ClOSED" in it to indicate whether hijacks were welcome? I.e. (and this is just a hypothetical) "FDA allowed morning after pill with no prescription - CLOSED" and "Pluto is not a planet - OPEN" - what do you think of that idea?

That's an excellent idea. I was going to start doing something similar myself, by putting HIJACK FRIENDLY at the top of my just-for-fun threads.

And please don't start moving all the fun threads to Fun & Games. Some of us find that forum very annoying and never go there.

And I KNOW you realize that the people who started deliberately hijacking this thread were just doing it as a tease. It was a JOKE!

The mods and admins here are some of the best I've seen on any website, and I respect your point of view. And I certainly don't want JUB to become a democracy, because that would lead to a lot of tiresome bickering.

But when you're contemplating a major rules change, or starting to enforce a rule that hasn't been enforced, maybe at least poll us to see how many people really care?

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

i believe that is the only suggestions that drew and i came up with that might work. back on like page 2. Although you put it much clearer.

the idea was Snapcats originally, but lets not forget that people really didnt take to it.

they didnt care to protect their threads from hijacking in the CE&P forum, and believe me, that is an intensely competitive and focused debate forum. the hijacks there are not about fun, they are about a conversation devolving off topic.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

I'm curious as to how those who are saying that everyone who may have wanted to post on the subject already has know that for a fact -- and therefore, it's 'open season' in this thread?

People can be away from home, off on business, taking a vacation, having their computer looked at, caught after a storm with no connexion ... and any of a host of other things. Maybe they just wanted a day or two to think over their opinions by voicing them. The point is that we'll never know.

By doing this, a decision is being made about them: that their opinion doesn't matter. True, conversations may wander from their original topic as things evolve over time, but this isn't a natural evolution, this is a sudden and rapid derangement. It's a form of passive-aggressive flaming that leaves those being flamed, both the active posting participants in the thread, and those who didn't post or didn't have a chance to post, no real way to respond, because it isn't aimed an anyone or anything in particular: it's aimed everywhere, and at everyone, and the end result is to derail the ongoing conversation and make and further conversation impossible. And this isn't just about this particular thread.

So what do you propose to do? Heavily police each and every thread and post to make sure everyone is treated equally and fairly? Doesn't that strike you as sort of oppressive? If this was to become the way of this forum, I assure you that you will see members leave.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Originally Posted by GL247

So what do you propose to do? Heavily police each and every thread and post to make sure everyone is treated equally and fairly? Doesn't that strike you as sort of oppressive? If this was to become the way of this forum, I assure you that you will see members leave.

I hate to just quote someone and just write "exactly", but that's what I'm gonna do, 'cause I agree with you GL 100%.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

I'm curious as to how those who are saying that everyone who may have wanted to post on the subject already has know that for a fact -- and therefore, it's 'open season' in this thread?

People can be away from home, off on business, taking a vacation, having their computer looked at, caught after a storm with no connexion ... and any of a host of other things. Maybe they just wanted a day or two to think over their opinions by voicing them. The point is that we'll never know.

By doing this, a decision is being made about them: that their opinion doesn't matter. True, conversations may wander from their original topic as things evolve over time, but this isn't a natural evolution, this is a sudden and rapid derangement. It's a form of passive-aggressive flaming that leaves those being flamed, both the active posting participants in the thread, and those who didn't post or didn't have a chance to post, no real way to respond, because it isn't aimed an anyone or anything in particular: it's aimed everywhere, and at everyone, and the end result is to derail the ongoing conversation and make and further conversation impossible. And this isn't just about this particular thread.

As I think I've mentioned elsewhere, I spent a lot of time on Usenet before I started coming here, and this is one thing that they handle a lot better. The posts are arranged hierarchically, so people can go off on a tangent without disturbing the main line of the thread.

The reason why this matters is that, as we all know, sometimes the tangents are the best part of a thread. I'd hate to see this forum become so rigid that people are penalized if they deviate in any way from the ostensible topic of a thread. In fact, I'd probably leave if that happened. Most of the posts in Hot Topics are NOT all that serious, and that's what I like about it.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

I'm curious as to how those who are saying that everyone who may have wanted to post on the subject already has know that for a fact -- and therefore, it's 'open season' in this thread?

People can be away from home, off on business, taking a vacation, having their computer looked at, caught after a storm with no connexion ... and any of a host of other things. Maybe they just wanted a day or two to think over their opinions by voicing them. The point is that we'll never know.

By doing this, a decision is being made about them: that their opinion doesn't matter. True, conversations may wander from their original topic as things evolve over time, but this isn't a natural evolution, this is a sudden and rapid derangement. It's a form of passive-aggressive flaming that leaves those being flamed, both the active posting participants in the thread, and those who didn't post or didn't have a chance to post, no real way to respond, because it isn't aimed an anyone or anything in particular: it's aimed everywhere, and at everyone, and the end result is to derail the ongoing conversation and make and further conversation impossible. And this isn't just about this particular thread.

once again (third time in about an hour) i will suggest this thread be made a sticky for a week or so. And if it will help temporarily remove or hide if thats possible the "hijacked" portion of the thread and allow more time for more members to post.

in the same line of thought goula, i find it curious that there is apparently a perception that hijacking is a serious problem. I haven't seen a thread started on having a problem with hijacks. and if my feable memory serves me, i don't think there have been that many complaints about hijacks. In all due respect i think this is, as GL said, being blown out of proportion.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Originally Posted by slobone

As I think I've mentioned elsewhere, I spent a lot of time on Usenet before I started coming here, and this is one thing that they handle a lot better. The posts are arranged hierarchically, so people can go off on a tangent without disturbing the main line of the thread.

The reason why this matters is that, as we all know, sometimes the tangents are the best part of a thread. I'd hate to see this forum become so rigid that people are penalized if they deviate in any way from the ostensible topic of a thread. In fact, I'd probably leave if that happened. Most of the posts in Hot Topics are NOT all that serious, and that's what I like about it.

Technically, there is a way to do the hierarchical responses with vBulletin (the software they use here) but for some reason they've disabled it???

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

before we get TOO upset, people.. if hijacked threads upset you that much, you have no life and need to get out more.

this is a freaking Forum board, and no amount of trying to insist that YOU are the one holding the conch* is going to change the fact that this is an internet forum and not the real world.

(to kinda hijack this thread while staying on topic)

Some people here seem to have a little trouble separating real life from their online fantasies. They get too much of a kick out of getting all verklempt about things that people post here and go on inane campaings to get back at them.. they take every opportunity to make some passive aggressive post or try to turn the conversation into something that it's not.

But at the same time, there are people (and yes, some moderators) who get on equally inane power trips and start acting like the hall monitor in high school who doesn't understand why everyone doesn't just do what they say.

JUB is what it is, and if people get to extreme in either turning it into their own little place to create drama, act like a fuckwit, play juvenile revenge games and be a dick OR if moderators spend too much time trying to figure out what rule people broke and try to find some way of handing out warnings or enforcing unenforceable rules... it's not going to be what it is anymore.

Quite honestly, it's not nearly as fun here as it used to be which is why I dont' post as much... which I guess is good news for the people who want to make it their own little kingdom, but bad news for the other 98% of us who just come here for a little fucking escapism from our lives.

*this is a Lord of the Flies refrence, which is about a bunch of kids... thought it was fitting.

Considering I'm not famous, you sure do talk about me a lot.

"have you ever known of a hater that's doing better than you?" -Chris Crocker.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Unless the thread was intended to be serious,I enjoy seeing the unpredictability and interesting directions a hijacking can take a subject.As long as the intent isn't flaming or malicious,and unless it's in a section where hijacking would negatively impact the intent of the discussed subject,there are few sacred cow other subjects that a hijacking would be inappropriate in.Just use common sense,don't take umbrage at the drop of a hat.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

this was brought about because three people made four posts in a spelling complaint thread in the hopes of getting folks to lighten up.

I said this a hundred posts back and I"ll say it again

One

theres a line that has to be drawn. Serious threads are not spelling complaint threads. They do not discuss real life issues or ask for serious advice. they are there to blow off steam. We all groan when we see the misspelt titles and then just move on because we cant do anything to make people know how to spell

two

If we are treated respectfully then we will respond well to a request. if we are treated as children and publicly chastized for something silly then it causes more drama and distraction than any hijack ever could.

Why is this so hard to figure out?

and BTW.... just so we all know.....

Not all mods consider me or you for that matter their friend and vice versa

we are all different people with different interests. Some of us are bound to disagree and some od us are bound to be friends

that is just human nature

Mods are human and while I respect their volunteer time, I do not respect the assumption that their actions are automatically above discussion and disagreement.

Ultimately JD ands Seth make the decisions here, not anyone else.

People we need to see the shades of gray in this issue

if we all look and read we can see that we are all agreeing up to a point.... we just all don't agree on what a serious thread is. And that is a problem that will never go away because human beings just have different tastes and interests.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

I see neither mod who feels hijacking is a problem has responded to my request to make this a sticky. Why not? Wouldn't that give the thread the chance to be seen and weighed in on by more members? Maybe mods can't make stickies? i thought they could.

As of now we are up to 6 pages here, there have been 1,358 views, 125 replies by 36 different members. I conceed that the thread was at the top of page 2 today when i found it. How many different members will have to give their opinion before we reach a representative sample size and/or how many days of open?

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Originally Posted by mike_n_herrin

I see neither mod who feels hijacking is a problem has responded to my request to make this a sticky. Why not? Wouldn't that give the thread the chance to be seen and weighed in on by more members? Maybe mods can't make stickies? i thought they could.

As of now we are up to 6 pages here, there have been 1,358 views, 125 replies by 36 different members. I conceed that the thread was at the top of page 2 today when i found it. How many different members will have to give their opinion before we reach a representative sample size and/or how many days of open?

I'm reluctant to make things stickies. I occasionally even wonder if people stop looking at the things that are stickies. I figure this thread will die a natural death when guys have stopped answering in it, and sticky threads don't really die a totally natural death.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

Originally Posted by Zeremonie

I'm reluctant to make things stickies. I occasionally even wonder if people stop looking at the things that are stickies. I figure this thread will die a natural death when guys have stopped answering in it, and sticky threads don't really die a totally natural death.

Yes, please, no more stickies. It's a pain to have to scroll past them to find the fresh threads, which I do maybe a hundred times a day. And please restrict them to JUB policies and procedures. That Bigotry thread is due for retirement.

Re: What's the sudden big deal of Hijacking threads?

this was brought about because three people made four posts in a spelling complaint thread in the hopes of getting folks to lighten up.

I said this a hundred posts back and I"ll say it again

One

theres a line that has to be drawn. Serious threads are not spelling complaint threads. They do not discuss real life issues or ask for serious advice. they are there to blow off steam. We all groan when we see the misspelt titles and then just move on because we cant do anything to make people know how to spell

Andreus -- If I'd known that thread was going to be such an irritant to you, I never would have posted it. It wasn't meant that seriously to begin with, and anyway I actually kind of like it when my threads get hijacked -- it shows people are enjoying themselves. Maybe 1% of JUB threads are so important that they shouldn't be hijacked. The rest -- who cares?