Now, I'm not a 'girly girl' by any means whatsoever. I wasn't raised with girls, rather my cousins who were 'tough guys' that I beat up on regular occasions because their idiots, but I love them like brothers. I can count how many times I've worn a dress on one hand. (Three by the way; my Communion, when I was my parent's flower girl, and my 8th grade graduation ceremony (I scared people that day, they were like "Holy ****, Ash is that you?" I, on the other hand was like, "Shut it.") I don't like pink all that much, I don't wear makeup very often... or at all most of the time. I don't giggle at stupid things, or have to go to bathroom in groups. (Seriously, I don't get it.) (Aaaand I'm probably being a stereotypical jerk-butt, but I'm making a point.) I've always hung out with guys, been one of the guys, my best friends are guys.

But I am by no means a guy.

I don't want to be a guy.

I've never thought about being a guy.

But I don't really fit in as a woman either. At least, not as society says I should. I know I'm a tomboy, but I don't go out of my way to be so. I don't look it at least, besides not wearing women's clothes. (Seriously, I hate women's tee shirts. I want sleeves dammit.)

Hey there
I think it is totally ok to not fit the clichés that society has about women. Just because you don't act "girly" (this term is already something society has made up), that doesn't mean that you are less than a woman. Of course, it is alright if you don't think of yourself as anything. I just wanted to point out that, in order to be a woman, you don't have to like pink or wear make-up etc. Sorry, if I got your post wrong. This is just what I first thought when I read your comment

Of course there is, Minato! Welcome! The more the merrier :D - please, tell us a bit about yourself!

Also just to let y'all know, I'm back. I moved house last week and we didn't have internet at my new place so I was out of commission for a good ten days. Anyway HUGELY long story short, we got evicted and I'm back living at home which means internet again yay!

The interesting thing was though that I moved in for that ten days with two gay guys (as per my coming out story a few pages back) and we're gonna get another place more... legitimately and move in together again . I had my first taste of being in the "gay community" as it were and I have to say it's not half bad! They were nerdy guys too so it's not like I have to worry about doing ghastly things like going out clubbing - but I like that I could sort of have my cake and eat it too, in that I get to step out but also remain relatively within my comfort zone.

But anyway, there is way too much for me to try to catch up on at this point (especially at nearly 4am) so I'm just gonna say welcome to Sassy Milkshake and LaVida, who also joined while I was gone, and try to jump right back into the conversation

What I don't get is that trans*ism is typically considered worse than being homosexual. Why wouldn't someone pick the lesser of two evils? This is especially odd knowing that homosexuality is becoming much more widespread as an accepted thing.

Well, a trans person can be in a heterosexual relationship, and I can see how that might seem "better" to an outsider who doesn't realize that gay and trans aren't the same thing. Like, if they thought that a trans person was just a gay person trying to hide their ~shameful gayness~ then they might think it would be better to hide it at least and pretend to be in a straight relationship? Or something? They'd probably don't think very hard about what it would actually be like to be trans vs being gay though. After all, it's unnerving to lots of people to think, even for a moment, about life outside of their heteronormative lives so their powers of imagination in this area aren't going to be very well developed.

Like, if they thought that a trans person was just a gay person trying to hide their ~shameful gayness~ then they might think it would be better to hide it at least and pretend to be in a straight relationship? Or something? They'd probably don't think very hard about what it would actually be like to be trans vs being gay though.

See that's what I don't get though. If someone thinks that being gay is "shameful," would I be wrong to assume they'd feel the same way about being trans?

But you hit it on the head. They don't exactly think about these sort of things, because they don't need to.

I think that's a common case of mistaking gender identity and sexuality as the same thing, when they're in fact two very different animals. This is the one problem with lumping us all in together in the one community - it's pretty practical in just about every other way, but it makes it difficult for people to see it as two separate things.

So, I was wondering, do you guys know any TV shows, games or movies in which one of the protagonists is gay/bi/trans etc.? (And I don't mean yaoi, yuri or the like.)

For example, I've never really seen a video game where one of the characters seemed to be gay. You always have straight couples which I find kind of boring sometimes. Well, I guess this is due to the great amount of people who don't accept homosexuality but who knows... There might still be exceptions.

So, I was wondering, do you guys know any TV shows, games or movies in which one of the protagonists is gay/bi/trans etc.? (And I don't mean yaoi, yuri or the like.)

For example, I've never really seen a video game where one of the characters seemed to be gay. You always have straight couples which I find kind of boring sometimes. Well, I guess this is due to the great amount of people who don't accept homosexuality but who knows... There might still be exceptions.

The only one I can think of is a TV show, Pretty Little Liars. One of the four girls is gay. I'm sure there are tons of other examples, but I don't watch that much TV or play that many games anyways.

The U.S. Supreme Court has decided to take up Prop 8 (the ban against gay marriage in California) and DOMA (the so-called Defense of Marriage Act which bans that federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages). Several things could happen:

- They could rule against the bans, but only inasmuch as they would say that you can't take away a right once it was given (in California we had same-sex marriage for a short while in a few places before Prop 8) or that it's up to states to decide how to handle this, striking down DOMA but leaving all the bans in over 30 states.

- They could rule that bans on same-sex marriage are just flat-out unconstitutional and all the bans would go away. Same-sex marriage would be legal everywhere.

- They could also rule in favor of the bans, even possibly taking away the right to marry in those states that already have laws saying it's okay.

- They could do something really unexpected and surprising that does something completely different.

But in any case it'll probably be months and months before they even start hearing arguments.

I've been looking into this topic a bit more extensively as of late (still have no clue about some of it though haha). Anyways, I've always been under the impression that it was more of a cascade effect. Once some states legalized same-sex marriage, it'd only be a matter of time before the country fell in suit. I guess I was blind to the idea that this could be taken away from states even where it is legal. So not only could there be no progress forward, there's a possibility a couple steps could be taken backwards.

Nevertheless I think federal action is definitely news that is welcome. Albeit it might take awhile, stuff'll eventually have to happen. ;P

David Cameron (Prime Minister) has announced that he doesn't want the gay community excluded from faith groups, and will be fighting for the permission of gay marriages (leaving the decisions to each individual priest/whatever).

The DOMA and Prop 8 news makes my day even if it's far off. There's a chance for same sex marriage to be nation wide in the USA! Though, they're speculating that they will remove the ban in California but not extend it throughout the entire country. Also, that they'll strike down DOMA since three different cases ruled it unconstitutional for three different reasons. These are just speculations (of course) and anything could happen really but I'll definitely be watching this stuff closely.

So, I was wondering, do you guys know any TV shows, games or movies in which one of the protagonists is gay/bi/trans etc.? (And I don't mean yaoi, yuri or the like.)

For example, I've never really seen a video game where one of the characters seemed to be gay. You always have straight couples which I find kind of boring sometimes. Well, I guess this is due to the great amount of people who don't accept homosexuality but who knows... There might still be exceptions.

You need to get out there more then!

There are lots of shows with LGBT characters. To name a few: Doctor Who, Torchwood, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Degrassi, Glee, Bedlam, and soo many more, but those are the ones off the top of my head.

For video games; Every romance character in Dragon Age 2 is bi, as well as in Dragon Age Origins there are two bi characters that I know of. Mass Effect has a quite a few as well. Skyrim has same sex marriage. Even games like Grand Theft Auto have a few LGBT characters.

David Cameron (Prime Minister) has announced that he doesn't want the gay community excluded from faith groups, and will be fighting for the permission of gay marriages (leaving the decisions to each individual priest/whatever).

It's nice he's trying to be inclusive, but personally I don't like how much he's conflating marriage with religion. Know what I mean? Almost like he's asking churches for their permission to have same-sex marriages. But at least it's something. And as an American it's encouraging to see a political party that calls itself conservative being behind anything in favor of gay people.

So, I was wondering, do you guys know any TV shows, games or movies in which one of the protagonists is gay/bi/trans etc.? (And I don't mean yaoi, yuri or the like.)

For example, I've never really seen a video game where one of the characters seemed to be gay. You always have straight couples which I find kind of boring sometimes. Well, I guess this is due to the great amount of people who don't accept homosexuality but who knows... There might still be exceptions.

LOST GIRL! I'd suggest this show to everyone! I love it. Happy Endings, The New Normal, Chicago Fire, etc. Actually I'll just link you to this Wiki page. Here you go. And here's a list of movies. Movies.

If you want to talk more about it (I like to ramble about these things.) you can always VM me and I can suggest my favorites and what not.

I'm especially heartened that they've proposed language changes and generally seem to have covered several issues with one law.

Quote:

The bill also would clarify rules for adoption and in-vitro fertilization, and eliminate the words "marido y mujer" (husband and woman) in marriage contracts, refering instead to the gender neutral "contrayentes" (contracting parties).

But this part made me chuckle a little.

Quote:

The naming change seemed to cause the most controversy as the measure came through legislative committees.

In the end, the legislators proposed to let all couples choose which surname comes first for their children.

This is more or less what I thought to begin with, so I'm not too surprised. Although, I was starting to get comfortable with the idea of being born with it. I don't think it really changes anything one way or another, even if it can be proven 100%, but it's worth a read.

The article makes it sound like you ARE born that way. (Am I reading it incorrectly? Guess I'll need to read the full study later.) So is this saying that people are conceived to be bisexual but these epigenetic markers control which trait is expressed and the other suppressed?

Well, I guess it IS saying you were born that way, but that it isn't due to genetics, and that other factors of pregnancy causes it. As far as I can tell anyway... I'm definitely no expert on the subject, haha.

I think the main factor is your environment. Though I don't know when sexuality becomes permanently established.

__________________

Hacks I'm working on:
Pokemon Sapphire Hoenn's Rebirth - My own hack, making progress whenever possible.
3rd Gen Multiplayer Project - Research and development, occasionally testing, sometimes with support.
Pokemon Cursed/Creepy White - Group project, on hiatus for now with plans to return eventually.
Animal Crossing Wild World playing as an animal - experimental, messing with models and textures

Hacks I've worked on in the past:
Pokemon Ruby Destiny Broken Timeline (pre-reboot) - Assisted with maps
Pokemon HeartGold Prince Boo Edition - Experimental project with three small changes. Made at the request of YouTube LPer PrinceBoo21.

Been super busy with work, life, and laptop problems. Hopefully I can get back into it soon, I fear I'm already rusty. Meanwhile I'm considering writing some of my hacks as a series of fanfics.

I think the main factor is your environment. Though I don't know when sexuality becomes permanently established.

I always considered that it was established in the womb, since genetic dispositions are out of the question. While traumatic events well after birth could do the trick, I believe that to be just temporary; a side-effect of the traumatic event.

It makes me feel bad about being Australian when Uruguay is closer than we are to marriage equality.

As to the "born this way" argument, I've always thought it'd be kind of awesome to pin-point the exact cause of homosexuality. That way, we might be able to find a way to turn people gay! The potential is there. There are a couple of guys I'd like to get my hands on but I can't because they have that annoying fetish for lady parts.

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