(09-03-2010 08:40 PM)martinb59 Wrote: What is the point of all those verses? Is to prove dragons exist or to prove God is OVER whatever it is they are talking about, whether it be an alligator, elephant, dinosaur etc?

Ah, never mind. Tone of voice is hard to understand on the internet; I took "over" to mean something else.

In any case, you lose no matter which option you claim it to be. If you say that your god was stating that dragons exist, you are claiming an obvious falsehood, and the Bible is not infallible. If you claim that your god was merely stating that he was greater than any of the things he listed, then you have contradicted yourself by stating that the passage in question supports the idea that the Biblical authors had divine knowledge of dinosaurs.

SEE gave you enough rope and you hung yourself. I asked you what the rules were, you said "Quote whatever. As long as it gives a sound logical basis for its claims, I don't care where it comes from" Nowhere does it mention dragons, in the Hebrew or English, YOU are saying it is a dragon, and then you say dragons don't exist so the Bible is wrong. Go back to your fantasy world video game, same with your pirate friend. Once again truth triumphs and it always will!

As far as "the passage in question supports the idea that the Biblical authors had divine knowledge of dinosaurs" God was talking through man and yes God had knowledge of whatever came from the beginning of time. Face it you lost, now learn from it.

(09-03-2010 09:12 PM)DrNekoDR Wrote: I is here to watch'yer back.... sheesh... I better not have to put up with all that circular logic, no evidence as proof crap.. I swear....

Welcome Pirate? I hope you have something to bring to the table!

Let's see...So far I have a guy who thinks that God doesn't exist because his wife's relative doesn't recycle, and now a guy/girl who talks like a pirate.

Ahoy Matey...I said that the Bible does not contradict science and said here is website that quotes verses that support science. Your boy said I miss quoted the Bible and provided the Job example from the website I quoted. I walked him through the whole process and told him what I was trying to do and he still hung himself. So give your parrot a cracker, take your eye patch off so you can see the screen clearly and let's discuss the topic.
First, you believe that "supermanlives"?

Second, God was talking, not Job, please read what I wrote. I am going to try and make this easy so you can get back to your comic books! God would know if there were dinosaurs and he told the writer of the book of Job to say that. Which would prove that the Bible was of divine origin.

Third, since I am replying to all of you, and giving all of you rope, let's quote Richard Dawkins, "alleged human bones in the Carboniferous coal deposits. If authenticated as human, these bones would blow the theory of evolution out of the water." (Free Inquiry, V.21, No.4, 10/11/2001)

If you are knocking my moniker, then I REALLY cannot take you seriously. I like Superman, so what? That's the title I decided to be known by. I don't go walking around saying "Superman just saved kids from a burning house" or "Superman helped me with my groceries", yet I hear people like you saying "Jesus saved me from myself" or "God is great, god is wonderful", etc., etc. There is a MAJOR difference and, if you can't see that, you are just as delusional as the rest of them.

Quote:Second, God was talking, not Job, please read what I wrote. I am going to try and make this easy so you can get back to your comic books! God would know if there were dinosaurs and he told the writer of the book of Job to say that. Which would prove that the Bible was of divine origin.

Moot point. I'm an Atheist ("...a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.") As far as I'm concerned, the story is recapping a fable that Job was telling his 'new' kids around the campfire (remember, god crushed his original ones to 'test' his loyalty...yes, god...not satan...god...it was god who gave satan the permission to wreak havoc on Job's life to prove that his faith in god was immovable...god's way of being absolved of any wrong doing).

Quote:Third, since I am replying to all of you, and giving all of you rope, let's quote Richard Dawkins, "alleged human bones in the Carboniferous coal deposits. If authenticated as human, these bones would blow the theory of evolution out of the water." (Free Inquiry, V.21, No.4, 10/11/2001)

<insert facepalm image here>

Thanks for trying to prove your worth even further, martin (insert sarcasm here). That quote was from Kurt Wise, young earth creationist, who was quickly silenced when "Yet Wise patiently and seriously examined the specimens as a trained paleontologist, and concluded unequivocally that they were "inorganically precipitated iron siderite nodules and not fossil material at all." Here's the link to the article, with the full quote FROM WISE in it:

Heck, no. Theists, especially creationists, have this knack for quote mining. All I could find were 'religious' sites quoting something Richard had apparently said. I could not find the article you referenced.

If Richard had said the statement above, YOU are taking it completely out of context. What did HE say before that quote? Was it something like "Kurt Wise, as smart as he is, said the stupidest thing...<insert above quote here>...can you believe that?" (I'm paraphrasing, of course...once I find the actual article, I'll post it here).

(09-03-2010 09:39 PM)martinb59 Wrote: SEE gave you enough rope and you hung yourself. I asked you what the rules were, you said "Quote whatever. As long as it gives a sound logical basis for its claims, I don't care where it comes from" Nowhere does it mention dragons, in the Hebrew or English

Are you even reading what I post? Seriously, martin, it is very plainly talking about dragons. It is speaking of a large creature with pointy teeth that breathes fire.

Quote:YOU are saying it is a dragon, and then you say dragons don't exist so the Bible is wrong. Go back to your fantasy world video game, same with your pirate friend.

You're the one deluding yourself. Once again, I point you to the very Bible passage you quoted. Try reading it this time.

Quote:Once again truth triumphs and it always will!

Yes. Yes, it does.

Quote:As far as "the passage in question supports the idea that the Biblical authors had divine knowledge of dinosaurs" God was talking through man and yes God had knowledge of whatever came from the beginning of time.

You claim that the authors of the Bible must have had divine inspiration because they knew about dinosaurs. Not only does the passage you quoted not talk about dinosaurs, your only response to this is that they knew anyway.
Not very impressive.

Quote:Face it you lost, now learn from it.

Right back at you.

Quote:Ahoy Matey...I said that the Bible does not contradict science and said here is website that quotes verses that support science. Your boy said I miss quoted the Bible and provided the Job example from the website I quoted. I walked him through the whole process and told him what I was trying to do and he still hung himself.

No, martin, I didn't. You made as if to hand me the rope, but then you strangled yourself with it. That you can't even realize this is just further proof of your delusion.

Quote:Second, God was talking, not Job, please read what I wrote. I am going to try and make this easy so you can get back to your comic books! God would know if there were dinosaurs and he told the writer of the book of Job to say that. Which would prove that the Bible was of divine origin.

Except that he wasn't talking about dinosaurs.

Quote:Third, since I am replying to all of you, and giving all of you rope, let's quote Richard Dawkins, "alleged human bones in the Carboniferous coal deposits. If authenticated as human, these bones would blow the theory of evolution out of the water." (Free Inquiry, V.21, No.4, 10/11/2001)

Would we all agree to Richard Dawkins point?

Do you have anything other than misquotations and quote mining?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it." - A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

"15 Behold now the behemoth that I have made with you; he eats grass like cattle.
16 Behold now his strength is in his loins and his power is in the navel of his belly.
17 His tail hardens like a cedar; the sinews of his tendons are knit together.
18 His limbs are as strong as copper, his bones as a load of iron.
19 His is the first of God's ways; [only] his Maker can draw His sword [against him].
20 For the mountains bear food for him, and all the beasts of the field play there.
21 Does he lie under the shadows, in the cover of the reeds and the swamp?
22 Do the shadows cover him as his shadow? Do the willows of the brook surround him?
23 Behold, he plunders the river, and [he] does not harden; he trusts that he will draw the Jordan into his mouth.
24 With His eyes He will take him; with snares He will puncture his nostrils."

Well they are clearly speaking about an elephant here. Have you ever seen an elephants dick?... I don't very much trust the observation skills of the desert people.. the Greeks were good at it.. but the Hebrews... not so much, they were too busy being scared and supersticious to really observe anything.

The other quotes I read up there are clearly refering to fire breathing dragons. What was your point then Martin?

(09-03-2010 09:39 PM)martinb59 Wrote: SEE gave you enough rope and you hung yourself. I asked you what the rules were, you said "Quote whatever. As long as it gives a sound logical basis for its claims, I don't care where it comes from" Nowhere does it mention dragons, in the Hebrew or English

Are you even reading what I post? Seriously, martin, it is very plainly talking about dragons. It is speaking of a large creature with pointy teeth that breathes fire.

Quote:YOU are saying it is a dragon, and then you say dragons don't exist so the Bible is wrong. Go back to your fantasy world video game, same with your pirate friend.

You're the one deluding yourself. Once again, I point you to the very Bible passage you quoted. Try reading it this time.

Quote:Once again truth triumphs and it always will!

Yes. Yes, it does.

Quote:As far as "the passage in question supports the idea that the Biblical authors had divine knowledge of dinosaurs" God was talking through man and yes God had knowledge of whatever came from the beginning of time.

You claim that the authors of the Bible must have had divine inspiration because they knew about dinosaurs. Not only does the passage you quoted not talk about dinosaurs, your only response to this is that they knew anyway.
Not very impressive.

Quote:Face it you lost, now learn from it.

Right back at you.

Quote:Ahoy Matey...I said that the Bible does not contradict science and said here is website that quotes verses that support science. Your boy said I miss quoted the Bible and provided the Job example from the website I quoted. I walked him through the whole process and told him what I was trying to do and he still hung himself.

No, martin, I didn't. You made as if to hand me the rope, but then you strangled yourself with it. That you can't even realize this is just further proof of your delusion.

Quote:Second, God was talking, not Job, please read what I wrote. I am going to try and make this easy so you can get back to your comic books! God would know if there were dinosaurs and he told the writer of the book of Job to say that. Which would prove that the Bible was of divine origin.

Except that he wasn't talking about dinosaurs.

Quote:Third, since I am replying to all of you, and giving all of you rope, let's quote Richard Dawkins, "alleged human bones in the Carboniferous coal deposits. If authenticated as human, these bones would blow the theory of evolution out of the water." (Free Inquiry, V.21, No.4, 10/11/2001)

Would we all agree to Richard Dawkins point?

Do you have anything other than misquotations and quote mining?

How is that a misquote, did he say it or not? If you are saying that I took it out of context then what is the context.

You are saying that Job 41 talks about dragons, Hebrew does not use the word, it describes something that you say is a dragon. I nor anyone else know what animal God is talking about, and the writer is writing about. You have to remember that the different books of the Bible were written in the language and knowledge of the day. Take Revelation, they didn't have computers, tanks, airplanes etc. How would you describe something that you have never seen, nor have any comprehension of? As far as dragons are concerned there are plenty of scientific friends of yours that say it is possible for a dragon to have existed.

(10-03-2010 12:13 PM)martinb59 Wrote: How is that a misquote, did he say it or not?

I'm not the only one here, you know. If you'll look upwards a few posts, you'll see that supermanlives has already called you out on this. Richard Dawkins did not say this. Kurt Wise did.

Quote:You are saying that Job 41 talks about dragons, Hebrew does not use the word, it describes something that you say is a dragon. I nor anyone else know what animal God is talking about, and the writer is writing about.

Is this all you have to say? Seriously? "Well, it looks like a dragon, it sounds like a dragon, it breathes fire like a dragon, but it's not a dragon"?
Also, you have just contradicted yourself again. You cited this passage as proof that the Bible contained descriptions of dinosaurs. If no one has any way of knowing what it was that they were talking about, how can you say it was dinosaurs?

Quote:As far as dragons are concerned there are plenty of scientific friends of yours that say it is possible for a dragon to have existed.

Name three.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it." - A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

(10-03-2010 12:13 PM)martinb59 Wrote: How is that a misquote, did he say it or not?

I'm not the only one here, you know. If you'll look upwards a few posts, you'll see that supermanlives has already called you out on this. Richard Dawkins did not say this. Kurt Wise did.

Quote:You are saying that Job 41 talks about dragons, Hebrew does not use the word, it describes something that you say is a dragon. I nor anyone else know what animal God is talking about, and the writer is writing about.

Is this all you have to say? Seriously? "Well, it looks like a dragon, it sounds like a dragon, it breathes fire like a dragon, but it's not a dragon"?
Also, you have just contradicted yourself again. You cited this passage as proof that the Bible contained descriptions of dinosaurs. If no one has any way of knowing what it was that they were talking about, how can you say it was dinosaurs?

Quote:As far as dragons are concerned there are plenty of scientific friends of yours that say it is possible for a dragon to have existed.

Name three.

Dr. Peter Hogarth, Senior Biologist of the University of York,
Animal Planet did a show on dragons, listed some scientists that said that dragons could have existed. I am sure it is on youtube or their website.

You do realize Martin that it was not an actual documentary... This was taken from the Discovery Channels online store.. its the description of the DVD.

"Ruling a make-believe world of fantasy and fairy tales, these terrifying, winged predators never existed in real life – but what if they had? Stunning computer-generated imagery from the same graphics company that created thrilling effects for Walking With Dinosaurs, Walking With Prehistoric Beasts and the latest Harry Potter movie provides a unique look at these creatures from the inside out. Learn how dragons would have evolved into a number of different species through the ages – Prehistoric, Marine, Forest and Mountain Dragons – and how each dragon species was endowed with physical adaptations and behaviors specialized for its environment.

Marvel at in vivo shots of each dragon's internal workings and learn the theoretical biology behind claims that these amazing creatures were able to fly and breathe fire. Combining live action footage, natural history and state-of-the-art computer animation, it's a vivid journey through the annals of the fantastic past and an in-depth, scientific look at one of humankind's most storied foes."

(10-03-2010 12:43 PM)martinb59 Wrote: Dr. Peter Hogarth, Senior Biologist of the University of York

Source?

Also, even if there are people who say it's possible. It's possible that leprechauns exist. Unless they have proof, it doesn't matter.
Don't think that I didn't notice the way you avoided responding to the rest of my post, either.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it." - A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner