acsguitar wrote:for gods sake the Florida Marlins have won 2 world series in 10 years where the Sox havent won since 1918...thats absolutely the sorriest thing I have ever heard ever!!!...They will loose again to the yankees..

Yeah, 2 things here:

#1.) I don't think bringing the Florida Marlins into a debate about the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is your best offense. In fact, it's concievably your worst. I can give you 328 reasons why the Red Sox would have won last year's WS against that Marlins squad. What's your excuse?#2.) I hear "1918", and now, from my side, the equally stupid "2000" way, way too much. It seems as though a Yankees-Red Sox debate can't possibly ever emerge about, you know, the current baseball season. Even the World Champion Florida Marlins don't need to be involved in any such debate. Seems to me that any time a Red Sox fan with half a brain comes up with 27 arguable reasons why the Sox could - CONCIEVABLY, POSSIBLY - be better than the Yankees this season, and presents a good argument, "1918" is the obligatory response.

Let's look at this objectively, all of us - in our lifetimes, has this rivalry ever been as concievably great as it is right now? I'm Boston born and bred, yet more objective than most of my peers, and I'm screaming NO. Anyone who thinks that a 6-1 Red Sox season series lead is insurmountable has clearly not been paying attention. Anyone who thinks that the names Contreras, Ramirez and Rodriguez don't loom larger in the 2004 rivalry than any others just don't have educated opinions. Any hick in Sturgess, South Dakota who'd rather watch the WWE than the next Sox-Yanks battle doesn't know what he's missing.

Is this rivalry one sided, in the past, anyway? Can't not give that to the Bombers. Is it completely up in the air while at its all time peak right now? Absolutely - and I'm an OBJECTIVE Red Sox fan. I know there are hundreds of thousands of objective New Yorkers who have no choice but to agree.

1. You cannot give anyone 1 REASON why you would've beat the Marlins. The Marlins beat the Yankees who beat YOU. If the Marlins beat the Yankees then how can you say that you would've beat them? You cannot.

2. Personally I don't care for the 1918 response but honestly, isn't that all we NEED to say? I mean honestly. Boston has had some unbelieveable teams and they have always failed. Why should we believe that this year or any other year is any different? 1918 in my mind is like saying......come back when you actually WIN something important because you've been close so many times before but always wound up failing.

ajgnydc722 wrote:1. You cannot give anyone 1 REASON why you would've beat the Marlins. The Marlins beat the Yankees who beat YOU. If the Marlins beat the Yankees then how can you say that you would've beat them? You cannot.

Yeah, except for that offense-riddled Interleague series -- and, oh yeah, who plays first base for Boston, and where'd he come from? Or how about McKeon thanking the Red Sox for pummeling his team into contenders and being thankful he got to face the Yankees instead?

There's a handful. There are many more. Aaron Boone hitting a home run doesn't disspell the fact that the Red Sox had it all over Florida.

ajgnydc722 wrote:2. Personally I don't care for the 1918 response but honestly, isn't that all we NEED to say? I mean honestly. Boston has had some unbelieveable teams and they have always failed. Why should we believe that this year or any other year is any different? 1918 in my mind is like saying......come back when you actually WIN something important because you've been close so many times before but always wound up failing.

You're kind of proving my point about Yankees fans not being able to have an intelligent debate without mentioning 1918 here.

ajgnydc722 wrote:1. You cannot give anyone 1 REASON why you would've beat the Marlins. The Marlins beat the Yankees who beat YOU. If the Marlins beat the Yankees then how can you say that you would've beat them? You cannot.

Yeah, except for that offense-riddled Interleague series -- and, oh yeah, who plays first base for Boston, and where'd he come from? Or how about McKeon thanking the Red Sox for pummeling his team into contenders and being thankful he got to face the Yankees instead?

There's a handful. There are many more. Aaron Boone hitting a home run doesn't disspell the fact that the Red Sox had it all over Florida.

ajgnydc722 wrote:2. Personally I don't care for the 1918 response but honestly, isn't that all we NEED to say? I mean honestly. Boston has had some unbelieveable teams and they have always failed. Why should we believe that this year or any other year is any different? 1918 in my mind is like saying......come back when you actually WIN something important because you've been close so many times before but always wound up failing.

You're kind of proving my point about Yankees fans not being able to have an intelligent debate without mentioning 1918 here.

I don't have any idea what your talking about with your first point. Everyone was beating the Marlins in the first half of last year. That was the point of their Cinderella story-comeback. First baseman? What's that have to do with anything at all??

You contridict in your second point. Why is 1918 a lame argument when it brings up all that needs to be brought up? You haven't won anything yet so don't say anything. You've said things in the past and blown it. Just don't talk. That's what 1918 means. It's not a lame argument.

Aaron Boone's homerun doesn't say that, no. But that, PLUS the fact that we came back against your boy Pedro prove that we had it over YOU guys. Therefore you can't say anything about you beating Florida. You couldn't get far enough to find out.

ajgnydc722 wrote:I don't have any idea what your talking about with your first point. Everyone was beating the Marlins in the first half of last year. That was the point of their Cinderella story-comeback. First baseman? What's that have to do with anything at all??

That's got plenty to do with everything. Do some statistical research on Boston's 2003 first baseman, who was widely acknowledged as a clubhouse leader. Yeah, I assume you've looked Millar up by now. Where was that he came up? Oh yeah........

ajgnydc722 wrote:You contridict in your second point. Why is 1918 a lame argument when it brings up all that needs to be brought up? You haven't won anything yet so don't say anything. You've said things in the past and blown it. Just don't talk. That's what 1918 means. It's not a lame argument.

Aaron Boone's homerun doesn't say that, no. But that, PLUS the fact that we came back against your boy Pedro prove that we had it over YOU guys. Therefore you can't say anything about you beating Florida. You couldn't get far enough to find out.

Numero uno, there's not a baseball fan alive who thinks Pedro should have been in that game that long.

Numero dos, methinks that somewhere underneath my screen name, on the left hand side of your screen, is my registartion date, so what could I have possibly said in the past?

1918 is a lame argument because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that we own one of your current starting pitchers -- or, for that matter, the fact that you own one of ours. Difference is, you're not gonna see BK on the mound in a key situation in Yankee Stadium ever again.

In June, the Red Sox were flailing and wayward too, just like Florida. The fact that the Sox owned them speaks volumes. Just ask any of them -- or Jack McKeon, for that matter. He'll be quick to tell you how grateful he was that his team got "the lesser of two evils".

Amazinz wrote:Honestly the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry has been weak since the glory of the 70s. But last year was a definite rebirth; interesting even for those of us who aren't fans of either team.

Pedro's arrival to the sox a few years ago spurred it to rebirth...if theres one Sox player who actually hates the Yankees, it's him...so i would say that the 1999 ALCS was the real rebirth of this rivalry.

And J.C. is 72 is right, just because the Red Sox haven't won since 1918 does not mean that this is not a rivalry. Even if the hate is more intense in Boston than NY, which to my understanding it is, the rivalry is still there. Right now, the rivalry is absolutely amazing, regardless of who won last year, who won in 99, and who will win this year.

Also, if someone is gonna start bringing the marlins into this, then I have to ask the ridiculously stupid question, could the Yankees and D-Backs/Angels/Marlins be a rivalry because those three teams have beaten the Yanks in the post season more recently than the other way around? (Anaheim in the 02 LDS if you don't remember). OF COURSE I can't ask that question, its too dumb. Just because the Red Sox have played the part of "The Little Engine that could Almost" does not mean that this rivalry is anything less than it is presented. It's absolutely awesome and, as much as I hate the Yankees, I wouldn't have baseball any other way than to have them and the Red Sox goin at it with ridiculous hatred...well...maybe I would give the Red Sox the 26-0 advantage, but thats just me.

J.C. is 72 is also right that a 6-1 season series lead is not insurmountable for the Yanks...ESPECIALLY for the Yanks. I mean...it can happen as quick as a 5 game sox losing streak and an 8 game winning Yanks streak and BOOM we're tied up again. EEI sports radio around here spent so much time after the Sox swept the Yanks the other weekend "oh man we've got you now" and "man this team is really different"...so stupid...I can't believe some people haven't learned...shoe leather tastes BAD, I don't know why people insist on continuously putting their foots in their mouths...they drop September bombs from April skies and all that can possibly wind up happening is someone saying "just wait till september" OR the team on the early losing end will come back...ya know?

Anyway, to answer the threads original question, this rivalry is awesome. Especially spending the last 12 of my 22 years (i moved to Rhode Island when I was 10), I can't imagine baseball being more exciting than having two of the greatest teams and two of the games most passionate sets of fans mixed so closely together in the same region...(my house is 3 red sox fans and a yankees fan, AHHHH!) If you want to include Cubs fans in that list of people, fine, but don't sit there and subjectively claim that the Cubs fans are more diehard than Red Sox fans when in fact neither of us have any idea...

So the rivalry is great and its only gotten better recently...the best part about it right now is that, as J.C. is 72 said, this years inevitable winner is still WAY up in the air...you can't possibly say one team is better right now...the Red Sox pitching and bullpen is absolutely ridiculous but so is the yankees offense...I'm almost glad the Yankees are as good as they are because, 19 times a year during the regular season, we are treated to games of intensity that actually ALLLLLLLL matter...its such great stuff. I too try to be an objective Red Sox fan.

As a side note...for Sox fans looking for something good to come out of Aaron #*@%)# Boone's homer last year...this is what I always tell my Yankee fan roomate..."at least my generation of Sox fans has its Bucky Dent and Bill Buckner".

GO SOX!

Rest in peace Mitch Hedberg. I name my fantasy team "Buoyancy of Citrus", in your honor.
1968-2005

ajgnydc722 wrote:I don't have any idea what your talking about with your first point. Everyone was beating the Marlins in the first half of last year. That was the point of their Cinderella story-comeback. First baseman? What's that have to do with anything at all??

That's got plenty to do with everything. Do some statistical research on Boston's 2003 first baseman, who was widely acknowledged as a clubhouse leader. Yeah, I assume you've looked Millar up by now. Where was that he came up? Oh yeah........

ajgnydc722 wrote:You contridict in your second point. Why is 1918 a lame argument when it brings up all that needs to be brought up? You haven't won anything yet so don't say anything. You've said things in the past and blown it. Just don't talk. That's what 1918 means. It's not a lame argument.

Aaron Boone's homerun doesn't say that, no. But that, PLUS the fact that we came back against your boy Pedro prove that we had it over YOU guys. Therefore you can't say anything about you beating Florida. You couldn't get far enough to find out.

Numero uno, there's not a baseball fan alive who thinks Pedro should have been in that game that long.

Numero dos, methinks that somewhere underneath my screen name, on the left hand side of your screen, is my registartion date, so what could I have possibly said in the past?

1918 is a lame argument because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that we own one of your current starting pitchers -- or, for that matter, the fact that you own one of ours. Difference is, you're not gonna see BK on the mound in a key situation in Yankee Stadium ever again.

In June, the Red Sox were flailing and wayward too, just like Florida. The fact that the Sox owned them speaks volumes. Just ask any of them -- or Jack McKeon, for that matter. He'll be quick to tell you how grateful he was that his team got "the lesser of two evils".

WHO CARES WHERE MILLAR CAME UP???

That makes the least sense of anything I've ever read. That matters 0.

I don't care what McKeon said and I don't care that you own Contreras. If Kim will never be appearing at Yankee stadium I seriously doubt Contreras will either since hes in Single A right now. You won't be facing him either I'd bet unless they fix him.

From what you've written I can see that you make no valid points whatsoever. 1918 is a lame argument because IT DOESN'T SHOW THAT YOU OWN ONE OF OUR PITCHERS?? WHAT????? omg

That makes the least sense of anything I've ever read. That matters 0.

I don't care what McKeon said and I don't care that you own Contreras. If Kim will never be appearing at Yankee stadium I seriously doubt Contreras will either since hes in Single A right now. You won't be facing him either I'd bet unless they fix him.

From what you've written I can see that you make no valid points whatsoever. 1918 is a lame argument because IT DOESN'T SHOW THAT YOU OWN ONE OF OUR PITCHERS?? WHAT????? omg

Listen, I don't wanna get into a pissing war with you while you're still somewhat blind. Go back and read everything - and I do stress everything that I've said in this thread so far. If you disagree with the majority of it, then you're a jaded Yankee fan, and none of us can help you.

I don't think Boone's homer really proves/proved anything. Sometimes its not that the BETTER team wins, just that somebody has to win eventually. I'm not saying the Red Sox were better, how could I? but I can't say the Yankees were better either just because they won the LCS last year. I think its unfair for one pitch to allow either side to say their squad is better...

Though I understand Boone's homer is not a major sticking point in this debate, so whatever, we can dismiss that...i just wanted to add an opinion while I had one to give.

I don't understand the Millar argument either. personally I think he's over rated and I wouldn't even have him playing if I were the manager once Trot comes back...D-O and Trot will outproduce any other 1b/RF combo the Sox can throw...maybe J.C. you coud explain that better, cuz I'm missin the boat on it.

Personally I think 1918 is a lame argument because it has no influence on the present. Even if the sox hadn't sold Ruth to the Yanks, these two teams would be goin after each other like crazy. Fisk and munson still would have fought, too. The squads just go after each other like crazy, right now, today. They are the two best teams in the East, have been, statistically, for what 6 years now? You think Babe Ruth or the curse had anything to do with a ball goin behind Karim Garcia's head or Manny freaking about a pitch (that still wasn't even that close) or Don Zimmer rushin Pedro? Nahhhh....its the heat of 2 great teams colliding that does it...the rivalry wouldn't be as storied without Ruth and all that stuff, but the games today would be just as intense. That's whats so great about the rivalry...the great game intensity.

Thats why I think 1918 is a lame argument. Until convinced otherwise, I will think this way.

Rest in peace Mitch Hedberg. I name my fantasy team "Buoyancy of Citrus", in your honor.
1968-2005