He has not had trouble scoring in the AHL for quite a while. When the NHL starts up, he'll get a chance to show if he has actually made improvements. Getting on a hot streak in the AHL really gives no reason to assume progress. It just shows he hasn't regressed.

Noise wrote:the all capitals "MIGHT" implies cautious optimism. Don't know why you gotta give him crap for it. That's a pretty good amount of scoring for him even for his AHL standards.

Probably because...

MRandall25 wrote:Nothing new to see here. He's an AHL scorer, has been his entire career. Can't translate it into the NHL, yet.

There shouldn't even be a might because he has shown the ability to score at that level. That's not why people have been down on him.

I agree that he has shown the ability to score in the AHL, but not at this pace... Through 7 games he has roughly 1/3 of the goals that he produced in 42 games (18 Goals)... Again, I know this is a small sample size, but if he continues the pace, he will score 18 Goals in about 25 Games. If you look at his game by game stats, he has never scored goals with this regularity.

Not trying to start an argument, but just something positive to think about during this stupid lockout...

I would love to see Tangradi make it at the NHL level, but he just doesn't have the wheels for the job. Maybe a 3rd liner with spot duty on the 2nd powerplay unit. He needs to play a ugly grinding style game to be effective, deep in the corners, dump and chase game. He doesn't seem to be able to play his game on a line with Sid or Geno. Hate to say it he needs to go to a team who plays more his style or a team who can use his skill set. At best a 20 goal guy in the best conditions, thoes conditions are not in Pittsburgh.

We're a team that creates along the boards, dumps, chases, cycles...well, at least we used to. Only the Malkin line was really designed to be a free-flowing offensive attack. Tangradi, though slow, isn't prohibitively slow and does really good work on the boards so he wouldn't fit here? I think some of you guys are looking for flaws at this point...he isn't fast, but Bugsy and Guerin weren't speed demons when they were here either...I'd say Tangradi is probably faster than Engelland and everyone loves that slug for one reason or another (is there actually two?)...

I don't want to be the Tangradi defender, in fact, I was a bit down on him when he first came here I think to combat the buzz around him, but now the pendulum has swung a little too far for a little too long...I'm in the Big Dog's Big Doghouse now...

I'm waiting for him to demonstrate a sens of composure, while he has the puck on his stick (or the opportunity to) in scoring areas.If he can develop that, I believe that he can be a functional NHL player. Otherwise, I guess he can be a functional - if not slow - grinder.

He has some skill, he does. It's gonna take a little bit of time to adjust to the speed of the top-9 game should he get a chance. The fourth line game is different. He's still a youngster, he's getting some big bonus minutes in an improved AHL...I mean, could you ask for a better thing for Tangradi? He was doing just fine last year in the AHL, now he gets big minutes AND the competition increases in talent around him, better goalies, better defensemen gunning for him (and honestly, worse teammates to top it all off, which isn't exactly helping him...he can't grow as well mentally because he doesn't have anyone creative enough with him to make him think on another level, that's an unfortunate situation)...this is really bonus bucks for Tangradi, and hopefully he uses it to his fullest...come into a camp with some confidence in his scoring ability, come into camp knowing he can play at this level in a meaningful role having been a quality player in the AHL+ league...might see a corner turned here...

I mean, maybe not too...it's not unreasonable to not like him, it's not unreasonable to have doubts about him...but some people are very intent on selling him short...I'll tell ya, and it might not mean much, but he's more skilled and has a better shot than Ryan Smyth or Tomas Holmstrom in their respective primes and probably just as fast - maybe even a little faster than Holmstrom at his best...so, before you throw out the "too slow...next" lines, just remember that some players did carve out careers...well, hold on a minute, some players that this very board has asked for at trade deadlines and offseasons past, have carved out very meaningful careers in spite of certain weaknesses...exceptions to the rule? Oh, without question. Needless optimism? Yeah, that's about right, I'll admit it. Will Tangradi ever have as good of a career as a slug like Ryan Smyth? No, probably not, and I hate Ryan Smyth. But you can make players work in certain situations, players can work themselves into certain situations...

Guys like Smyth, Holmstrom, they suck...they just aren't good. But look what they've done for themselves...Patric Hornqvist in Nashville same basic deal, not really a whole lot there besides an understanding and a will to do the work...it takes all kinds...

MikeyIts not that I disagree with anything you wrote, I just feel that he hasnt shown me enough at the NHL level and when he got some 4th line duty and played admirably at best it got everyones hopes up. He just seemed a touch slow and for whatever reason, even if he has the skill/shot you described does not useit very effectively. Playing well enough on the 4th line in minimal minutes is a world of difference from carrying top lines minutes with Sid and Geno.

This it totally based off of my own observations and I certainly hope he turns it up a notch and these other "scouting" reports from posters are legit, that he is a 2nd line forward with 30 goal potential soon. I just dont see it happening with him. I mean he has been a top prospect with us alone for 3 1/2 seasons

I hope everyone is right but I am just not taking too much stock in his AHL play or his decent couple of minutes in the playoffs.

I just can't see Tangradi fitiing with Malkin and Neal, sullivan or Kunitz fit in nicely. That defensive forward, 3rd guy back energy guy. Crosby had 50 goals the year he played with Kunitz and Duper. Both high speed guys. So Tangradi just doesn't seem like a logical choise to play with SId if anything we need a Kunitz clone.

He is a touch slow, in fact, he's a couple touches slow...for a player like that his offensive ability develops a lot slower than you'd expect. Bigger body, stronger, and playing against ever-quickening competition...it takes a little bit for a player that isn't blessed with a ton of natural skill, he's no Patrick Kane certainly, to figure it out. I used to have a player just like that a few years ago that I coached. Big kid, tall, not a lot of natural skill but he worked hard and thought the game really well...and at first, he really flubbed the puck around a lot and had trouble reading where passes should go and when...but I kept giving him ice time because I saw that he has the potential to do some really good things, plus he was my most defensively aware player on a defensive team. So, there ya go...

Seeing that I had a couple of workers without a ton of natural skill, I changed the team into a cycling offense (not unlike what you saw Cooke-Staal-Kennedy do for years...he was my Jordan Staal, and I told him that all the time and I showed him clips of things Jordan does and how he developed offensively and he even wore #11 for me...well, not for me, but, whatever...). And you could see him start to pick it up offensively, he was understanding how it worked offensively more and more while increasing his defensive capability because now he thinks on a higher level with the puck...by the last season that I had him, he was the catalyst for the team's offense and led the team in goals by a good margin as I recall...you'd never guess that he would ever lead a team in goals if you saw him doing drills at that first training camp...but you see something, you nurture it a little bit and you see what happens...

We look at last year and go "well, look Dupuis and Sullivan are faster, so obviously Tangradi can't do it" but the fact is, we had Andy Hilbert play with Sid, Colby Armstrong play with him, Ryan Malone play with him, Bill Guerin at 409 years old play with him...it's all a matter of what you want to make. If you want to have two lines that are all finesse and free-flowing offense like we were last year, like the Capitals have been throughout their existence, fine, then Tangradi is not a match, you're bang on. But if you want to try to find Lemieux's Kevin Stevens...or Forsberg's/Thornton's/Backstrom's Mike Knuble, then maybe you have something...maybe you don't...that's an exorbitantly high ceiling, but I'm just throwing out what you're throwing away...

Frankly, I hated the team last year. The way they played down the stretch was a downright embarrassment. So if we're going to get back to our cycling offense (maybe sans the Malkin line, give them a pass if you need to), then you don't need these finesse, up and down, handsy guys...I mean, Christ, Chris Kunitz doesn't even fit the description you want...he's not all that talented...I mean, you talk about Sid scoring 50, it sounds like he couldn't squeeze water from a stone with Kunitz and Dupuis...how about the year he had 84 assists, who were his linemates then? Sounds like he was able to pass and score then. The year Crosby scored 50 goals, he only had 50 something assists...Kunitz missed like half the year and Dupuis had his typical static production...so, it sounds like those linemates didn't work. It just meant that Crosby had to do more to generate offense by himself. Because he had no help. It's not like that 50-goal year saw Dupuis register 61 assists...he had 20...right in line with his career production more or less...Crosby scored in spite of him...him and Kunitz for that matter, who is also pretty much a static producer...they don't really help him above replacement-level players I don't feel...

I'd rather have a 40+80 player than a 50+50 player in this context...so let's just cool out a minute here and see what direction Bylsma is going to take the team: back to its roots or back to the future...if it's the first one, the speed doesn't make as much of a difference...if it's the latter, and we play heads-in-our-asses hockey, then yeah, Tangradi will continue to rot on the fourth line because he's not fast enough to play firewagon hockey with the other idiots...

I know the Penguins organization likes him and his potential, they're excited about what he can do this year...and I was told that the only reason he didn't slide up in the lineup was to not mess with line chemistry. So, take that with as many salt grains as you need, even I'll take a couple...but they seem to have every intention on giving this kid an extended look in our lineup, which tells me - knowing his limitations - we're going to be less like the Washington Capitals and more like a winning team...

Additional side note, Cooke can't play the right wing of a grinding line...he's left-handed. It would be a nearly insurmountable disadvantage tactically speaking.

mikey287 wrote:Frankly, I hated the team last year. The way they played down the stretch was a downright embarrassment. So if we're going to get back to our cycling offense (maybe sans the Malkin line, give them a pass if you need to), then you don't need these finesse, up and down, handsy guys...I mean, Christ, Chris Kunitz doesn't even fit the description you want...he's not all that talented...I mean, you talk about Sid scoring 50, it sounds like he couldn't squeeze water from a stone with Kunitz and Dupuis...how about the year he had 84 assists, who were his linemates then? Sounds like he was able to pass and score then. The year Crosby scored 50 goals, he only had 50 something assists...Kunitz missed like half the year and Dupuis had his typical static production...so, it sounds like those linemates didn't work. It just meant that Crosby had to do more to generate offense by himself. Because he had no help. It's not like that 50-goal year saw Dupuis register 61 assists...he had 20...right in line with his career production more or less...Crosby scored in spite of him...him and Kunitz for that matter, who is also pretty much a static producer...they don't really help him above replacement-level players I don't feel...

I'd rather have a 40+80 player than a 50+50 player in this context...so let's just cool out a minute here and see what direction Bylsma is going to take the team: back to its roots or back to the future...if it's the first one, the speed doesn't make as much of a difference...if it's the latter, and we play heads-in-our-asses hockey, then yeah, Tangradi will continue to rot on the fourth line because he's not fast enough to play firewagon hockey with the other idiots...

I know the Penguins organization likes him and his potential, they're excited about what he can do this year...and I was told that the only reason he didn't slide up in the lineup was to not mess with line chemistry. So, take that with as many salt grains as you need, even I'll take a couple...but they seem to have every intention on giving this kid an extended look in our lineup, which tells me - knowing his limitations - we're going to be less like the Washington Capitals and more like a winning team.

mikey287 wrote:He is a touch slow, in fact, he's a couple touches slow...for a player like that his offensive ability develops a lot slower than you'd expect. Bigger body, stronger, and playing against ever-quickening competition...it takes a little bit for a player that isn't blessed with a ton of natural skill, he's no Patrick Kane certainly, to figure it out. I used to have a player just like that a few years ago that I coached. Big kid, tall, not a lot of natural skill but he worked hard and thought the game really well...and at first, he really flubbed the puck around a lot and had trouble reading where passes should go and when...but I kept giving him ice time because I saw that he has the potential to do some really good things, plus he was my most defensively aware player on a defensive team. So, there ya go...

Seeing that I had a couple of workers without a ton of natural skill, I changed the team into a cycling offense (not unlike what you saw Cooke-Staal-Kennedy do for years...he was my Jordan Staal, and I told him that all the time and I showed him clips of things Jordan does and how he developed offensively and he even wore #11 for me...well, not for me, but, whatever...). And you could see him start to pick it up offensively, he was understanding how it worked offensively more and more while increasing his defensive capability because now he thinks on a higher level with the puck...by the last season that I had him, he was the catalyst for the team's offense and led the team in goals by a good margin as I recall...you'd never guess that he would ever lead a team in goals if you saw him doing drills at that first training camp...but you see something, you nurture it a little bit and you see what happens...

We look at last year and go "well, look Dupuis and Sullivan are faster, so obviously Tangradi can't do it" but the fact is, we had Andy Hilbert play with Sid, Colby Armstrong play with him, Ryan Malone play with him, Bill Guerin at 409 years old play with him...it's all a matter of what you want to make. If you want to have two lines that are all finesse and free-flowing offense like we were last year, like the Capitals have been throughout their existence, fine, then Tangradi is not a match, you're bang on. But if you want to try to find Lemieux's Kevin Stevens...or Forsberg's/Thornton's/Backstrom's Mike Knuble, then maybe you have something...maybe you don't...that's an exorbitantly high ceiling, but I'm just throwing out what you're throwing away...

Frankly, I hated the team last year. The way they played down the stretch was a downright embarrassment. So if we're going to get back to our cycling offense (maybe sans the Malkin line, give them a pass if you need to), then you don't need these finesse, up and down, handsy guys...I mean, Christ, Chris Kunitz doesn't even fit the description you want...he's not all that talented...I mean, you talk about Sid scoring 50, it sounds like he couldn't squeeze water from a stone with Kunitz and Dupuis...how about the year he had 84 assists, who were his linemates then? Sounds like he was able to pass and score then. The year Crosby scored 50 goals, he only had 50 something assists...Kunitz missed like half the year and Dupuis had his typical static production...so, it sounds like those linemates didn't work. It just meant that Crosby had to do more to generate offense by himself. Because he had no help. It's not like that 50-goal year saw Dupuis register 61 assists...he had 20...right in line with his career production more or less...Crosby scored in spite of him...him and Kunitz for that matter, who is also pretty much a static producer...they don't really help him above replacement-level players I don't feel...

I'd rather have a 40+80 player than a 50+50 player in this context...so let's just cool out a minute here and see what direction Bylsma is going to take the team: back to its roots or back to the future...if it's the first one, the speed doesn't make as much of a difference...if it's the latter, and we play heads-in-our-asses hockey, then yeah, Tangradi will continue to rot on the fourth line because he's not fast enough to play firewagon hockey with the other idiots...

I know the Penguins organization likes him and his potential, they're excited about what he can do this year...and I was told that the only reason he didn't slide up in the lineup was to not mess with line chemistry. So, take that with as many salt grains as you need, even I'll take a couple...but they seem to have every intention on giving this kid an extended look in our lineup, which tells me - knowing his limitations - we're going to be less like the Washington Capitals and more like a winning team...

Additional side note, Cooke can't play the right wing of a grinding line...he's left-handed. It would be a nearly insurmountable disadvantage tactically speaking.

To be honest I think his lack of speed is not the biggest problem. He just doesnt seem to get it or have it which of course can be coached. Unless your name is Koltsov.

I hated last years team as well and stated many times long before the team started showing cracks that the lack of cycling and lack of ability to stop the cycle was a huge problem and was going to kill us. The team was too perimeter on the either end of the ice, let alone the weak links along the blue line in general.

Not to get into that again but how much of that can actually be attributed to Tangradi not playing well (or finding a spot in the lineup to excel?). It seems part of the reason the other guys excel on Sids line is because they do little hockey sense things (or DID the little things, yeah I am talking to you Kunitz), are in the right spots, and when they were playing well were up and down the ice, creating havoc, on the forecheck, and generally at the very least opening up space.

Maybe I am spoiled from all the years of having guys that just played simple games on those lines but he just worries me, and I might be obsessing a bit because I feel our 3rd will be quite a bit worse with no new pick ups. So we need to Tangradi to live up to the hype to push the 2nd line or whoever he plays with into an extra gear.

Granted Malone wasn't much of a skater but in open ice he could follow the offence in. He was a bit bigger than Eric is. One thing more than anything he has against him is. No one is ready to accept a players learning curve when your on a line with Sid or Geno. Its produce now or your off that line. Maybe Eric over the course of 40 games could learn how to play with thoes guys, but he better have immediate success cuase no one is going to watch Sid or Genos line suffer for one player.

I heard a coach being interviewed about matching players on a line. He said the hardest part of bringing a kid up fro,mthe minors and putting them on a line with a star player. Is that in the minors that player was "the guy" the goto player on that line everyone would give him to puck expecting good things to happen. Now all of a sudden your a supporting player on a line and its a big change for some players.

Right, Tangradi can also follow the offence in. It's not very much different. I also don't notice much of a size difference between Tangradi and Malone, maybe there is, I don't really see a noticeable one.

Who is the "one" in "no one"? Fans? F'em, what do they know? Management? Well, they seem to be at least open to the idea of trying some new things. Clearly they don't have a ton of faith in Dupuis and...uhh...whoever else plays with Crosby or else they wouldn't have offered a blank check to Parise. So, I know they're ready to weigh their options at least, one of the heaviest options is Tangradi.

Back to the fans thing, so let me get this straight. If Tangradi sits in the minors this year, he's a bust. If he's on the fourth line, he's not progressing and won't be anything more than a grinder. If he's on the third line, he has to take Cooke's spot, which means Cooke is in the top-six which most don't seem interested in. And if he's in the top six, "its produce now or your off that line...he better have immediate success [cause] no one is going to watch Sid or Genos line suffer for one player" ...this poor kid is damned if he do, damned if he don't.

I'm just curious as to what "immediate success" we've seen in terms of linemates for Crosby especially so far...it looks like we found a good match for Malkin: Kunitz and Neal. Crosby doesn't have anyone that can accentuate him really. Dupuis is an ok option, but he doesn't help Crosby grow. He just doesn't hold him back, but as I sort of alluded to before, Crosby is scoring in spite of these players, not really with them. So, who is it that we're kicking off of Crosby's line that's been so successful?

Who cares if Tangradi takes a whole season to learn with Crosby, it's not like Crosby hasn't dragged slugs along with him before for a little while (pretty much his whole career to date, give or take...)...at least this is a homegrown slug that - who knows - might develop some chemistry with him, might bury some chances for him...or he might be Nils Ekman, score every goal he's ever gonna score in about four minutes and then leave forever...I don't know. But I'm willing to try. Because I'm not so picky that "pssh, Eric Tangradi will never do, Crosby is used to playing with HHOF linemates his entire career..."

The great thing about Tangradi is that coach's interview doesn't have much in common with Eric...Tangradi doesn't carry the puck in the AHL, he's a guy that goes to the wall and grinds out a cycle and finishes around the net...so, that won't be an issue at all for him. He's used to being a supporting player on a line, just a finisher, not a carrier. Not a "go to guy", not a minor league highlight reel, none of that. The issue for him would be the opposite actually...he's used to thinking on a level with scrubs..."hmm, what will scrub Warren Peters do here to get me the puck...I better go into the corner..." with Crosby it's, "hmm, what will...oh ****, there went the puck!" - if he can identify with Crosby at all, even if it takes half a season (it's been 8 years of waiting, what's the difference...), we're in great shape. It's a longshot, I'll admit, but what's the alternative? Anything decidedly more promising? I'm like an Iowa cornfield...all ears...

Last edited by mikey287 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.