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Wednesday, March 21, 2012

Who's In Control?

There has been this big "block" in front of me lately, sort of a writing block...there's something that I want to "talk" about on here but it's one of those things that I want to make sure I say correctly, coherently, and concisely, and accomplishing those things requires some time and thought.
I think a lot, but don't have a lot of time to put my thoughts on paper or on a screen.

I started this post back in January and it's been before me since then. I've tried to write around it, always feeling like I was avoiding something; sort of like when you tell your kids to pick up in their room and they dilly dally or actually play nicely for the first time that day (or week.)

Wanna know what it's about? It's maybe not hard for you to guess.

Birth control.

Dun, dun, duuuunnnnnnnnnnn.
Shocking, I know.

Now, could I ask a favor of you? Could you just read this with an open mind and heart? Would you please not get offended and then not read my blog anymore if you disagree with me? If you leave a comment, would you please be gentle if you disagree with me? Even if you disagree wholeheartedly?

After hemming and hawing my way through many attempts both in my head and by way of typing them out, I decided the best way is to just say it.

So here goes.

Birth control is, well, taking control.
As a born again Christian, I want God to be the Lord of my life. I am surprised at how often I hear believers talk about surrendering their lives to the Lord but who insist on keeping this part of their lives under their own control. Sort of like, "Send me wherever you wish, Lord. I'll go to the ends of the earth to do what you ask and to tell others about you, but I won't have a baby unless it's on my terms."

NFP (Natural Family Planning) and FAM (Fertility Awareness Method) are still birth control.
In my opinion, this is still trying to manipulate or control something that I believe is a complete miracle and as such, completely up to God and His timing.

Yeah, well, God gave you a brain, right? Shouldn't you use it? and other such comments
Yes, God gave me a brain and I do use it. He also gave His created a command: Be fruitful and multiply. It has never been rescinded in all of Scripture.
I read once where someone likened the declining of a child in this way: Yes, children are a blessing. So is food. But I need to control how much food I take in.
True. But the Bible warns about gluttony. Nowhere in all of Scripture does it ever speak of children as anything but a blessing and a reward, a heritage.

Isn't that like jumping off a tall building and saying "Ok, Lord, if you want to save me, You can!"
Um, no. That's the part where you use the brain God gave you.

God can be trusted. He is trustworthy.
I have nothing to add to this.

Trusting God with your family size does NOT necessarily mean you will have a bunch of kids.
First, let me say that it would be ridiculous for me to assert that a family equals a certain number. A husband and wife are a family, whether they have children or not. My point is that I believe it's something that should be up to God.
My grandparents never used any form of birth control and they had 7 children. While I know that that may seem like a lot, it's certainly nowhere near the number 20 that is commonly purported. "If we just left that up to God, we'd have like 20 kids!!!"
Seriously, do you think God is caught off guard? "Aww, snap!! I knew I should have kept a closer eye on those two when he started that back rub!! Now I'm going to have to go and make plans for another one of these humans!"
I say no. I don't believe God is surprised at new life. I believe that God has a plan for each and every person, as stated in Jeremiah 29:11 I believe that that begins even before conception. God says so in His Word. Psalm 139

If I may be so bold (why stop now?) for many Christians it's like saying "I trust God but not that far. I mean, let's not get crazy here..."
And you know what? That was me. I used to think that way. Our first four kids were born with me thinking that way. That's when we began to see that the control wasn't ours to possess. And I'm so glad the Lord intervened--because I wouldn't have had the opportunity to know them. They wouldn't be here had God not shown me, in His mercy, that His plans were and are better than mine.

Is someone really more worthy of life just because they're first or second? But fourth or maybe fifth in line, sorry!
We bemoan the fact that in some countries, babies are tossed away simply because they are a girl. I wonder, is throwing someone away just because they're the wrong number any different?

Along these bold lines, how about...Permanent Sterilization
I hear things like "but God gave us doctors who can do surgeries so you don't have to worry about having more babies."
To this I say, just because it can be medically done, doesn't mean it should be done. Gender re-assignment comes to mind.
Also, please consider this: vasectomies and tubal ligation are procedures/surgeries wherein a functioning part of the body is rendered broken/non-functioning. Typically, surgery is to fix what is broken, not to break what needs no fixing. Ironically, it's called "getting fixed."

I believe God is the Creator and Author of Life.
I have not been given any special insight into who should live and who should not. When it comes down to it, this is the biggest reason for me. It's not up to me. I don't want the responsibility of deciding who should live or not because that is something WAY bigger than me.

It is no act of my will that creates a child. That is purely God. Even if I sought after conception with all kinds of medical intervention ie, in vitro, etc. the creation of a life still rests in the hands of the Creator.

Read the package insert. I'm not making it up and the pharmaceutical companies openly admit it. There are three mechanisms of the Pill/Patch.
1) inhibiting ovulation
2) thickening cervical fluid
3) thinning and shriveling the lining of the uterus to the point that it is unable or less able to facilitate the implantation of the newly fertilized egg (medical speak for "baby").

The first two mechanisms are contraceptive; the third is abortive. When I learned this 7 years ago, I was shocked, saddened, disbelieving and finally repentant.
Did you know? In America, chemical abortions are estimated to kill more than 7 million babies each year--while surgical abortions kill about 1.5 million babies each year. (source)

Family planning is the mother of abortion. A generation had to be indoctrinated in the ideal of planning children around personal convenience before abortion could become popular. We Christians raise an outcry against abortion today, and rightly so. But the reason we have to fight those battles today is because we lost them thirty years ago. Once couples began to look upon children as creatures of their own making, who they could plan into their lives as they chose or not, all reverence for human life was lost...

...Abortion is first of all a heart attitude. "Me first." "My career first." "My reputation first." "My convenience first." "My financial plans first." And these exact same choices are what family planning, which the churches have endorsed for three decades, is all about."

Trust me when I say that I am not writing this to any one person in particular. In a way, though, perhaps I am. Maybe there is one person reading this whose heart God has been preparing. Maybe. It is my hope.

72 comments:

thank you for posting the part about even if you go after other ways such as invitro that it's still up to God :-) all of my pregnancies were were only because of MANY drugs and procedures due to severe endometriosis and in the past I have had people tell me very hurtful and nasty things about that I should've have gone this route as maybe it was God saying we shouldn't have kids, whereas I took it as we just needed to work harder to get our babies and thankfully God gave them to us I feel that had he not wanted us to have children this wouldn't have happened no matter what we did :-) so thank you for pointing out that it's still up to God even with a Dr's help (and I feel that God helped Dr's figure out how to help those of us people who want children and sometimes can't on our own)

Thank you so much for posting this, Melissa! I think this is something that God has been working in my heart for a while now. (Just admitting that is a little scary!) :) There is still a lot of praying and a lot of conversations between Randy and I that need to be done, but I can say that I know that everything you said is scripturally sound, and that's hard to argue with. :) I can also tell you that it scares me a lot to give up what semblance of control I believe myself to have in that are. :) Like I said, it's a work in progress. Please pray for God's leading for Randy and I both and for agreement between us. :) Also, if anyone does disagree with you, I challenge them to look into the beautiful faces of your precious children and say in all seriousness that they do not belong in this world. :) God bless you, dear friend! :)

It seems every time I read your blog I am encouraged! I think your comments on birth control are spot on. As my husband and I pray for a family, I often wonder how past use of birth control has harmed our chances. This is such a taboo subject, but why? Shouldn't we know the effect of birth control if we as patients are going to take it? Every time I read your blog I pray that no one criticizes you and your beautiful family. May you find strength from God to keep posting your beliefs. Bravo!!!

Thank you so much for your comment! I covet your prayers.It is true that the use of birth control significantly increases the chance of having trouble conceiving. The uterus often takes several cycles to recover from the chemical effects of the contraceptive--sometimes it never does recover.

I disagree so much with John Piper--well, ok, he didn't write the article, Matt Perman did, but John Piper has it on his website. He seems to just go around and around and undo any of his points made in one section when he tries to prove something in the next.

First of all, it should be pointed out that Matt Perman is singling out non-abortive forms of birth control. So we stand in agreement on chemical birth control, anyway.He goes on to say: What is important is our attitude in using it. Any attitude which fails to see that children are a good gift from the Lord is wrong: "Behold, children are a gift of the Lord; the fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one's youth. How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them" (Psalm 127:3-4).Again, as I said in my post, I believe it is wrong to use the argument that just because children are a gift, doesn't mean we should pursue as many as possible. I didn't say that we should pursue as many children as possible--I said I believe we should be open to the children that the Lord has for us. I believe "chasing after" as many as possible is still trying to take something in to our hands that belongs in the hands of Creator God.I disagree with virtually every "argument" this man presents, with the exception of this one: God is just as much in control of whether you have children when you use birth control as when you don't. The hands of the almighty are not tied by birth control! A couple will have children precisely at the time God wants, whether they use birth control or not. Either way, then, God is ultimately in control of the size of one's family. And with this one precept, he effectually undoes his whole article. It is my point exactly!

I still stand behind what I wrote. I want to bring this to your attention again: Once couples began to look upon children as creatures of their own making, who they could plan into their lives as they chose or not, all reverence for human life was lost...

BUT we as parents have to be able to provide for our children too. That is why those of us that choose to not take the chance in having more children then we can provide for do something to prevent it. Both my husband and I work full time and it is still tough to provide for 3 children at times and we live on a budget. I don't think it is fair to anybody to have to ask for help because we were irresponsible. AND it is very unfair to blame God for the reason why ppl have such large families or that he chooses who will and will not have children.plz don't pick my reply apart as I am entitled tp an optinion too. I am a christian.

You make it sound as if taking birth control is a sin. You say if it's not broke, don't fix it. Come on...not everyone wants a large family. And not eveyone can provide for a large family.why do you think it os ok to take chemicals to have children, but it is too harmful to take something to prevent having more children? I am not at all ok with abortion....but imagine if there was not a form of birth control....there would be more abortions in this world. Which is worse? You chose to have a big family....we chose a small family. Is either of us better people? I don't think so. It is what we choose/chose. We have pride and wanted to be able to provide for our family or we would have had a large family too but we knew we had to stop at 3 because that is all we could provide for even though we have love for more children. I know this is a touchy subject but I think it is unfair to basically say that a person that gives themself to God should also have children until there bodies are no longer able because of their age.

I don’t believe that what we want or don’t want should supersede the plan the Lord has for our life and the life of others. And I believe in calling a spade a spade: abortion is a sin. So is lying, so is pride, so is stealing, so is gossip, etc. Chemical forms of birth control, ie, the Patch, the Pill, Norplant, IUDs, all cause early abortion. Not every time, certainly, but they do cause them. A medical abortion doesn’t work every time, either, but the process is still wrong.I would NEVER—N.E.V.E.R.—want you to think that I am of the belief that a small or large family is “better” or that the parents of a small or large family would be “better” than each other. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, as am I. You are correct in saying that this is a touchy subject; I just can’t figure out why that is. Your decisions that you make for your family are between you and the Lord. I am responsible for doing what I know the Lord has asked of me. It's not my job to change anyone's mind. I know I have never changed mine just because someone told me to believe a certain way. As I said, I didn't always believe that this was an area where God should have complete control. God used radio programs, books, blog authors, and some important people in my life to soften my heart to the point where I was open to another baby. I have hope that God can use this post in the life of even one person. Thanks for reading.

P.S. The part where I mentioned pride as sinful, I wasn't referring to your reference of your having pride. (My husband brought that to my attention.) Of course I don't believe being proud of something is sinful, as in being proud of your husband or your kids...things like that. When we let pride get in the way of what God wants us to do, then we have a problem. Also, pride can cause us to ascribe honor to ourselves that really belongs to God.I just wanted to clarify what I meant when I talked about pride being sinful, so you wouldn't think I was coming down on you.

Wow, sounds kind of confrontational here. It is really sad that people are not entitled each to their own opinion without getting all defensive and assuming only one person is right or assuming that God is the only one that should decide how many children one should have. And pride being a sin??? I don’t get that. So in another words are you saying that it is ok to be proud of our children and spouse but that if we are proud of anything else in our lives that we are sinning? God is in control….but I have also said many times that had I not taken birth control or had my tubes tied, that I would have had a huge family. I am not saying that I did not want a huge family, I would have loved to of had more children, but we knew we could not provide for them financially. You can only go without so much and this is where the pride comes in. I refuse to ask for help. No person(s) should supply my family financially because we chose to continue to have children that we could not provide for. I am not against someone getting help if it is needed. But when people make a choice to continue to reproduce and cannot be the soul supporter of their family without medical assistance, food assistance, shelter assistance, transportation assistance, clothing assistance, etc…it is very sad. To me that is a sin….people are taking advantage of the system. I have seen this way too many times…we all need to be responsible and provide for our family. This is why I do not think taking birth control is a sin. This is my opinion. I read yours and I am just giving my opinion. I never meant for you BOTH to get so defensive, for you to ask me “what prompted you to comment on Melissa's blog to begin with?” It makes me wonder why you would ask that of me or anyone else.

Wow. This has gone downhill fast. Since I don't know you and I'm pretty sure you don't know me, you can't hear my "voice" when I'm responding to you, and neither can I hear your "voice" when you respond to me. I'm not being confrontational--I honestly feel like we are being conversational. I promise you we are not being defensive. If either of us have offended you, we apologize.

I take the stance that if God wanted me to be pregnant nothing I do or do not do would stop that. Therfore, taking birth control would not prevent me from getting pregnant if God intends me to. He can do anything, include over-riding birth control. I think everyone feels judged for having their opinions, and gets defensive. If eveyone does what they feel God leading them to do then we can't judge. We can only do what we feel right for our cicumstances. I pay for health insurance because I want to be protected "just in case". There could be some who feel that is not giving God the ability to provide. They could see it as this: IF I would get really sick He would provide the money for those bills, so why carry insurance. Do I not have enough faith in Him?

We shouldn't fight over birthcontrol, we should be "living sent" in our places of living. No matter where you live be missional minded. My church just got done with the series of Living Sent. I encourage you to go through the whole series. http://www.newhopechurchmn.org/worship/livesent.php

Life is worth fighting for, understanding the facts about what our society deems as acceptable mortality in the lives of the babies that were aborted because of chemical forms of birth control is something that needs to be heard.

So after reading this all I wonder.......since you told ANONYMOUS it is a sin to take birth control, is it a sin if a person decides to have a vasectomy or a tubal ligation to be responsible and not have more children then they can provide for? I call it being responsible and not counting on other hard working people to pay my way. Trust me, we have been down and out and never did we ever go to the mailbox and mysteriously find money to put food on the table. Maybe I am doing something wrong?

It's not up to me to tell people what is a sin and what is not a sin. You all have just really taken offense to factual evidence and tried to deflect the purpose of my original post. My focus was that God is the author and creator of life and you decided to pick it apart and read into things and use several statements like "in other words you are saying..." No. I wasn't using other words--I used the words I used. You have to decide for yourself what you do. It's not up to me. I'm not going to tell you what is a sin and what is not a sin. I believe killing a baby--born or prebor--is wrong. Chemical birth control kills babies.Since I allow people to comment anonymously on this blog, I have no idea who you are. Since there have been several anonymous comments on this post, I have no idea if they are the same person or not. I stand behind everything I wrote in my post. Take from it what you want, even if that's nothing.

I'm 50/50 on the issue, I some what understand both sides of the issue (hence the 50/50) but I'm not going to bash someone on the head because they do or don't take birth-control.

I have to point out here in today's world that we don't live in a young earth creation world view point anymore. We live in Greek world view, what I mean is that society isn't rooted in God but in man. This issue is one that could be "won" but we won't be able to win in the long run because the next 10-20 years after the decision is made, society might take this issue and turn it around. We should be more focused on going back to the word of God and not rely on man, and live sent to people.

Please Note: I think that birth-control issue is a private matter between the husband, wife, God and the pastor/elder of the local church where the family goes. I do respect both sides of the issue here but I won't go all in for one or the other. My point is that these issues will take care of themselves if we focus on Jesus and presenting him to the lost world and stand firm on biblical truth.

Christians cannot stay silent on the issue of chemical birth control. God says He has set before us life and death, blessings and curses; that we should "now choose life, that you and your children may live, and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to His voice, and hold fast to Him." Deut 30:18-20That is biblical truth upon which I stand firm.

I stand firm on choosing life; chemical birth control kills babies. How can one stay silent knowing this? How can one not stand up for life knowing this? How can one turn your head and pretend it is not true, knowing this? It is easier for me to understand that when you have not had children, when you don't sit at night looking at God's blessings to your family and know that if I had not obeyed Him where would Elizabeth be? Where would Ivy be? Where would Ruby be? Where would Elijah be? Where would Christopher be? After Andrew, God clearly showed us that we need to allow Him to have full control in regards to the size of our family. He has blessed us in so many ways that most will not understand, but the one thing he clearly laid on our hearts is to share our story with others: every day lives are lost, lives with eternal souls are lost to abortion from chemical birth control. It is not at all easy to stand up for this; we knew we would meet many differing opinions, and the easy thing would be to just keep it personal between husband and wife, God and the pastor/elder of the local church. That path I will not choose.Dennis

I wholeheartedly congratulate you Dennis and Melissa for the courage to stand up in defense of the babies who will never be born. And in response to some of the comments I truly believe that the Lord equips us for what He has called us to do. A wish for more children is placed on our hearts by God, and those that choose to limit their families because of lack of resources truly miss out on seeing God work things out. I have recently started volunteering at a crisis pregnancy help center, where I hope to be an instrument used of the Lord to promote life and life affirming beliefs and be a part of seeing His Hand at work in changing lives and our local culture. Thank you Dennis and Melissa for speaking out about an issue that involves even happily married couples who ought to be welcoming life into their home. As Christians we must be setting the example for a culture that has really strayed. The more and more I learn about Satan's efforts to kill, steal, and destroy life, all I can conclude is that I have to be willing to have more children. It is a spiritual battle!!! Keep up the good work, Laurie S.

Ok, I am going to put my view in here and I am probably going to get shot down for it as well. But if you are unable to afford a child, if there is seriously no way for things to work then why not adopt that child to a family who would not be able to have a child otherwise? We know many people who would love to have children who, even with IVF/intervention have not been able to. You are right Melissa, chemical contraceptives stop babies from implanting and growing rather then just stopping conception from taking place. And as for sterilisation, why should we fix what isnt broken? Being able to bring children into this world really is a blessing.

Adoption is an option, yes. We have family who just recently adopted a child from a home situation that was having several difficulties.

It would be rare, though, that money would be the only factor in needing to give up one's child(ren) for adoption. It would seem to me that there would be several compounding factors involved, not just money. I would hope that a church or other family would step in to help in a situation like that, if the family were having a very rough time of it financially, before going through the heart-breaking process of giving up your children.

We were very young when we had our eldest, and not well off financially, but we have made it work thanks to family.Actually I am not sure how we would make it without family in some situations even now. Both my husband and I have very supportive caring family members, very close knit, we are lucky there.I know a lot of people don't have that which is sad, because family is so important.I would hope someone would step in and help too, I can only imagine the pain of giving up a child. It seems today women are "trained" to think differently about an embryo or unborn baby then an infant, but every stage is precious, there is no stage where that life is not valid. I am grateful that my children will know this and not be taught otherwise.And who are we to say a child shouldn't be born, or to judge the right time for a child to come into this world.We learned very early that a child will come when the time is right no matter what you want often:)We tried to control it early on, failed wonderfully and gratefully and now we are on the other end of not being able to have more children for some reason or another.Maybe there will come a time:)

After putting more thought and research into it I'm more along the anti-birth control. My point is that if you want to change culture you got to reach out, meaning being Live Sent and prayerfully asking God for opportunities to share Jesus with people even if it is one step towards Jesus. This way Jesus will change people's hearts and turn to Him. We can't change people's mind about things but we can share the love of Jesus to people so that they will change. Sure they might not be pro-life as soon as they get saved but they will value life more and more as they mature in the faith. Through the work of Answers In Genesis (in regards to keeping the church Biblical & waking up Christians on doctrinal issues) and living out our faith equals God moving through this country and the world. Win people to Jesus will change the culture in the long run. I do think we should have strong opinions on the issue with life but not to the point where we look down on others and sacrifice our mission to reach the unsaved. If we don't reach the unsaved then this whole thing about being anti-birth control will eventually be lost because we're not focused on the mission. Focus on the mission and then society will turn towards Jesus.

I am not exactly sure how we are not reaching out by sharing not only our convictions on birth control but also the biblical and the Christ centered approach we have taken. Using you as an example we are not only communicating with believers but also unbelievers through Melissa's blog. It is the believers who have not understood the devastating effects that chemical birth control causes that we have the opportunity to share the results that it has on lives of literally millions of unborn babies yearly. For the unbelievers who read it is a chance for us to witness the promise that God has for us in welcoming his blessings into our home. I commend you for taking the time to discuss and walk with us through our journey.

I very much disagree with what Dennis said...I will quote it from an earlier post...."It is easier for me to understand that when you have not had children, when you don't sit at night looking at God's blessings to your family and know that if I had not obeyed Him where would" and you ame a few of your children....so you are saying that those of us that choose in some sort of a way not to have child after child are not obeying God??? I am going to talk to my minister about this. This has really hit a spot deep down within my heart.I agree with with ANONYMOUS....it is not anybody elses place to put food on the table, pay my medical bills, buy me vehicles, clothe my family. If I have to ask for help then I better be responsible. If it means not havinng sex, then that is what I have to do. Nobody should have to pay my way because I cannot. Nobody should beg for help...

Your sentence structure reminds me of someone we know and I was trying to decide if your comment was general or being pointed.

We have had people buy us food; I bet you've had someone buy your family dinner before, too. We have had people give us good deals on vehicles; I'm not going to feel guilty about that. We sometimes get clothes for Christmas or birthday gifts and we often get bags of hand-me-downs from other families. I don't see these things as evidence of being irresponsible. Asking for help is not wrong either. Often, others are blessed to be able to help.

I think the idea of passing along hand me downs is good for many reasons, it uses less resources to make (hence is better for our enviroment), it makes you grateful for having people who think of you and whats more in the end I am sure what will no longer be used by you and is still in good condition gets passed along to other people who will also get good use out of them. Even when you have a small amount of children (for us 3) its nice to have people share and its really nice to share with others too. When our girls were really little we were given so much stuff for them, clothes, toys and even a change table from a lady who was not able to have children of her own.When all my kids out grew them I passed them along to a family who needed them.To this day I still pass on all the good things to others.But then I also pass on excess fruit and veggies that I grow in my garden to neighbours and family and they pass on fish/ crabs ect to us.Its part of being in a community. I think in this day and age a return to community is not a bad thing.Well thats just how I see it:)

Well this has been interesting reading along with all these comments. The challenge I am finding with all these messages is I don't know if all the anonymous comments are the same person... I have known Dennis and Melissa for a few years now and I don't always agree with everything they do, I also respect them a great deal. To all the persons on here commenting with a little anger in their heart, a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. I don't think anyone can convince someone of something, all we can do is give them little bites of info, then it is up the person who receives the message to grow it and make it their own or disgard it. That message may need to be heard many times over a sgnificant amount of time before it starts to sink in. I am very proud of Melissa for having the courage to stand up to modern day thoughts and put their beliefs here for all of you to read.

"Many are the plans in a human heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails." -Proverbs 19:21 I ran across this verse again in my Bible time yesterday, and it just really spoke to my heart in a new way. I just want to thank you again for your boldness and faithfulness in sharing what God has placed on your heart, for the way that you live out your faith and the example that you set! I appreciate you tremendously! God bless!

It seems to me that the biggest problem most Americans have with the whole large family thing is that they equate more kids with less money, and are scared to death of not being able to afford them. Should I not exist just because my father had to make humiliatingly small payments on doctor bills, and sometimes didn't know where the next tank of heating oil was coming from? I certainly hope not. Having grown up poor myself, I can say that I'd rather exist as the child of a poor man than not exist at all!

We as Americans have a great deal of trouble thinking Biblically about these things because the cultural assumption is that children are all expense and no reward, financially. I can't think of anything more utterly American than thinking of human beings in terms of dollars in and out, nor can I think of anything more wrong-headed. People are not a money drain. They are image-bearers of God. Even the ugly ones like me. ;-) Furthermore, having children has made me *more* productive, not less. YMMV, of course.

I don't believe that children are a financial liability at all. I have known enough large families from all walks of life to know that adding a child has never changed anyone's financial situation in the long term. It certainly changes some short term priorities, and interferes with our own plans, though, doesn't it? But no matter the family size, the frugal remain frugal, the spendthrifts remain spendthrifts, and the wealthy and poor become that way based not on their reproductive habits, but on their financial ones. I see my father's skill set, and his money habits, and I know that it would have been no different if he'd had no children at all. Nor would adding a couple more of us have changed anything.

I don't deny that it costs money to pay for hospital bills, food, and such, of course. What I deny is that it matters very much in the end. It is rather uncomfortable for us parents, I suppose, to buy the kids' pants at Goodwill to spread our paychecks a little thinner. I can't say I was all sweetness and joy when I saw how much the groceries cost last night, either. ;-) In all hardships, though, God provides. Sometimes he finds unique ways to do it, but He always does it! I witness it daily. And he never faults us for coming to him and saying, "God, this expense is too big for me. Please help." Repeat after me, Christians: Poverty is not a sin.

I think we Americans have been affluent so long that we truly think that we provide the riches we have for ourselves. Not only that, but we're so accustomed to this wealth that we don't even realize how wealthy we are! But God says all of our blessings come from Him. That means I don't have to worry about how much money I'll have in the bank at any given point in time, especially while trying to determine whether the next child will be worth the expense. That's not up to me. My job is to work hard, to be a good steward, to be honest and thrifty, to pray fervently, and to remember who clothes the lilies.

You put words to my thoughts...thank you. God always provides for his children. I'm not talking about government programs, either. Finances are another area of our lives that we have a difficult time turning over to God but, again, relinquishing this to God brings a freedom similar, I think, to the freedom Melissa described above as she put her trust in God for their family size. Who knows? He may ignite some creativity in us that would create more wealth than we know what to do with! Or we may be called to live a lower lifestyle than we would prefer. But not being able to afford more children doesn't hold water with me either.

I was thinking today about the conversation that has been going on over the last few days regarding the issues concerning children. I believe that if I asked everyone who the one being is that hates life, the answer would be satan, If I asked what is the most talked about topic in the Bible it would be money. Satan will often take the path of least resistance to get the fastest results, thus using money to convince us that we should not have more children is a very simple, yet effective way that satan can use to destroy the expansion of Gods kingdom. If we can get over the fear of the unknown and see that we can thwart satans plan by accepting the gifts that God has planned for us, that would cause satan to work harder on other parts of our lives to discourage us from trusting in God. It is not easy to live in today's society knowing that we are looked at as out of control freaks who have no brain to figure out that we should not have even the children that we have. Think about that statement I just made, according to society my children should not be here. Walk me through the thought process there?

Dennis, you are absolutely right! Although our society tries to make everything all about money, that is really not the issue. (While I am quite sure that God doesn't condone people sitting around doing nothing to support their families, that is certainly not the issue here.) It is a heart issue. There are many things that are not specifically addressed in the Bible, and those areas can get a little tricky. This is not one of those. There is little doubt about how God feels about children- (the many references to children being a blessing and a heritage from God, Jesus rebuking the disciples for their attitudes that children are not important, and most specifically, God's command to be fruitful and multiply.) Be fruitful and multiply. Not "be fruitful and multiply if it suits your plans" or "if you are positively certainly that you will always be financially well off" or "if it doesn't interfere with your ability to have a new house/car/vacation,etc" Simply "Be fruitful and multiply." Period. The real question is this: Is God really faithful and reliable and can we really take Him at His Word?" It's not a matter of wondering what His Word says, it's whether or not we are going to trust Him. Do we really believe that God wants the best for us and that His plan is better than our own? That is really the heart of this issue, and it's that issue of surrendering control that makes things difficult and makes this such a hot topic. :) It's never easy to surrender what we believe to be control, but I do believe that God can be trusted, and when we are willing to surrender, that is when He is able to give us complete peace in knowing that no matter what happens, we are in the best hands. :)

The one thing I see that is underlying from some of the postings is the more kids you have, "The better Christian" a husband and wife are. What if a mother has had a few children and knowing instinctively that her body can not handle another pregnancy either physically or mentally. Does this mean she is a lesser "Christian" with less "faith?"

Anonymous....That has been my point!!! Thank you....it seems that Dennis and Melissa are in another world thinking that people are sinners if they do not have large families. Some times people are not able to continue having children. Some times they are forced to either take birth control or have their tubes tied or a vasectomy. Some things are beyond our control.

to Anonymous on Mar 30 at 6:40---your comment seems intended to hurt because you feel I was being hurtful. I have never EVER said nor has it EVER been my intent to leave someone with the impression that I think bigger families are better. If you go back to my post, you will see that I said clearly that it is not about the number--there is no number that makes one more faithful. My point was that I believe that God's plans for families are better than our own and that He should decide the number of children in our families, whether that be one, ten, or zero. Please don't read something that I was not saying.

to Anonymous on Apr 1 at 5:05--you are putting words in my mouth that I did not say. Nowhere did I say that people are sinners if they do not have large families. Nowhere. Absolutely, there are times when people are not able to continue having children, though I think you and I have different ideas of what that would entail. I would hesitate to use the word "forced" when talking about birth control. That just sounds like something from Hitler's Germany, though I doubt that was what you meant. No one should be "forced"; I imagine you mean that they see birth control, tubal ligation and vasectomies as their only option?

Your last sentence, though, is my point exactly. "Some things are beyond our control." We agree on that, anyway.

When you said that we are in another world, I think you meant it to be derrogatory, but you were more accurate than you might realize: Romans 12:2 says "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." Now, before you jump all over that word perfect, I am using this reference to agree with you that we are not conforming to the pattern of this 1.2 child(ren) per family world.

I have always had a hard time standing up for what I believe in; the conversation taking place on this post has been a learning experience for me. Thank you for stretching me to sure of what I believe in and to draw nearer to the Lord who has asked this of me.

about the Anonymous on Mar 30 at 6:40----I can guarantee that it was not intended to hurt. It was written by someone (not me) who loves you and your family deeply (which I do too!) Melissa, you read something in those words that was not intended. Which is a lot of people's point. It does really come off as if you are saying that those that don't have large families do not have enough faith or aren't as good Christians as you and Dennis. Obviously this whole topic has really struck a nerve on all parties. God has intended you to have a large family, that's great! But, God has also made it clear to other people that they need to limit their children. God gave us the knowledge to understand "how" babies are made. He made us intelligent beings to follow His plan. If God really wanted someone to have a baby, it would happen---regardless of any kind of birth control. I'm not arguing that some types of birth control are wrong, some are REALLY wrong but the knowledge to know our bodies and how things work was given to us by our Creator. He gave us the ability to listen to him in whatever way He needs to speak with us. Know that you are loved, even by people that don't agree with this point of view.

Can you guys help me, please? I'm honestly asking: Can you tell me what it is I say that makes me sound as if I think that we are better Christians? Because we SO aren't better than anyone else; if only you knew all the sins we struggle with--maybe you do know, I'm not sure.

All through Scripture, the Bible speaks of God both opening and closing the womb, to accomplish His purposes. My question follows, butI quote one of your sentences to begin: If God really wanted someone to have a baby, it would happen---regardless of any kind of birth control. So--wouldn't the converse also be true? That if God really didn't want someone to have a baby, then it wouldn't happen--regardless of any kind of birth control??

All I can say is, wow. People, read the words written. Not the words you think they meant to say. Repeatedly, Melissa and Dennis have tried to steer towards conversational debate. Repeatedly, "hand-grenades" get tossed in the path. Before offering comment, maybe a re-read should be done of what puts your panties in a twist. Aaron

You know, I'm not going to grow weary in this. No matter how many times you try to slight my family, no matter how many times you assume things about me that are not true, no matter how many times you put words in my mouth that I did not say, no matter how many times you try to make me out to be the bad guy for speaking the truth in love, I will not grow weary. I stand behind everything I wrote in my post, standing firm on the Word of God. I encourage you to search the Scriptures for yourself; really dig deep, then come back and tell me what you've found. May God bless your family. I wish you and your families only the best.

Sorry for coming back in here, but I am just wondering about being FORCED to have your tubes tied or have a vasectomy. There is no way anyone can force you to do this, it is a choice, its always a choice.So you can choose to have your tubes tied, you can choose to have a vasectomy but you can not be forced to do so.No one in the medical community would preform such an operation on someone who was being coerced into something that is most likely irreversible.Yes some people are not able to continue having children, but that is different from choosing not to have more. Physically being unable to concieve is different from choosing not to concieve. And for me its not about being more or less christian either, it about the fact that life is such a precious thing, and a true gift.I am just coming back to the that after many years of not beleiving, but my belife on life has been with me since before I could remember.

Wow--you and I were thinking pretty much the same things at the same time! That is just AMAZING! I am glad you came back in, don't apologize. :)Praise God for his redemptive work in your life, bringing you back unto Himself.

What I was referring to as being forced to have a vasectomy or having your tubes tied was that what if the mother developed a medical condition that would make it harmful to her if she were to become pregnany again. I am not a dummy....I know that no medical professional can force a person to go through a medical procedure. Come on people. This has gone way too far!!! Julie

I haven't read this for a day or so, but if you think you are a christian then you would be able to put your name on your post. What a bunch of cowards writing here under the anonymous heading. GROW UP!!!

Wow....this has stirred quite a bit of emotions here. I find you, Melissa, an inspiration to many people out there and your faith is contagious!! Thank you for being you...for speaking like only you can do...and thank you for allowing me to be a part of your faith and dreams and struggles in life!! You are blessed!

Hmmm, so my friend Salena Ness directed me to this blog and I must share a little about us. We have 5 children, with 2 on their way into our home. My husband has a vasectomy before child #3 was born. It didn't work. Before we concieved child #4 he had another one...that one supposidly worked. And here we are with 6&7 on the way. (granted I am not giving birth to them.) I prayed before my husband had his surgury. I was told VERY clearly by God that this was not what he had planned for our family and that we can not thwart the plans of God. If God wants you to have children you will have them, no matter what you try to do to stop them. I am so thankful for the family that we do have, I would never be able to choose which child I wish we hadn't had. I love them all, and God has provided abundently even we worried about finances. Things just work. God is bigger than that. As to why some people have no children at all, I wish I had the answer to that, but I do know that God has a plan for everyone, and it isn't just to make you happy, but to make you holy. Let His name be glorified no matter what the situation, and I promise that if you have zero children, or 7 plus that you will find the peace that you need. You are given the strength that you need for the moment, not before and not after. I would never attempt to speak of sin that the Bible is not very clear about, and after reading this post and the comments. I feel that the poster has be unfairly attacked. I pray for those that twist words, God loves you anyway...He hurts when you hurt...but He is the ultimate healer. Thank you for this thought provoking post.

Wow!! What a great story you have!!! Dennis and I feel the same way about our kids--whenever we encounter the nay-sayers, we just want to say, "Look at these children--which one should we not have had?"Congratulations on your new children! Praise God they are finding their forever family within yours. Thank you so much for stopping over to comment; I really appreciate your insightful words and your support, more than you know!

My intention was not to point fingers at those who disagree with us, but to encourage each of us to examine our decisions and convictions in light of Scripture rather than resting upon the standard lines of reasoning. Sometimes our own desires and fears can masquerade as convictions. We are all guilty of adopting the values of the society around us, but we are called to be different. We need to be ever mindful that we are held to God’s perfect and unchanging standard, and often that means conforming our own will to His.

I know this thread has been calmed down for awhile, but I want to ask about families not living in the US. In the USA, it's unusual for somebody to starve to death... in other cultures around the world, it's not so unusual to live in a war-torn, famine-ridden land. Does one prevent pregnancy to avoid watching your children die? Is this trying to control God?

I guess that questions stems from my own current understanding of "family planning." I am doing what I can to be "responsible" with regards to my family size. Yes, I am making decisions about when/how many children to have, but I don't believe I'm NOT trusting God. I know He can step in if it's His will and I'll be pregnant anyway! And I know that I can make wrong choices... don't we see the effects of right and wrong choices in the Bible over and over? If only Abraham had trusted God for that son! So we make choices about when to use (non-chemical) family planning methods just like we make our other life choices... with prayer and seeking to hear His voice.

A third thought that's not fully developed (thank you for this stimulating discussion - this is a subject I'd like to be more familiar with!) - There are such things as "good sons" and "bad sons." Proverbs tells us all about them. Also - there are of examples where a God-allowed pregnancy led to so much pain and suffering for a family, though the cause of the suffering caused by "sons" is arguable... I'm not well-researched at this point! But anyway, this is why I'm not easily convinced by the argument - "God calls children a blessing." (Yes, he certainly does and they certainly can be! But perhaps they aren't always!)

I think I've been a little misunderstood along the way here...I don't feel like I'm saying people are not trusting God if they are trying to plan their families. I can see how it would look that way because I refer several times to "trusting God with our family size". I think we all struggle with trusting God completely; I think we all have areas in which it is easier to trust Him than in others.I think in the area birth control, what Dennis and I have decided to do is not so much an action of "trusting" God with our family's size, but more so to acknowledge God's sovereignty over all things; the trusting is what sustains us during the difficult times. The acknowledging is what helped us step out in faith, not knowing what He had for us.

I don't know what to say about every extreme situation people suggest to me for reasons to use birth control. The children of Israel continued to obey God's command to be fruitful and multiply even while they were enslaved in Egypt. "But the more they were crushed, the more they increased and spread..." Exodus 1:12 Our mentality is that if we are going through persecution, difficult times, or money is tight, that we cannot have children. The Israelites proved that God was able toe keep them and provide for them, even in the most difficult times, times of "affliction" and "bitter with hard bondage." Here is what God says about fruitfulness and multiplying: Genesis 1:28; 9:1,7; 16:10; 17:1-6; 22:16-17; 24:60; 26:3-4; 28:3; 30:43;35:11; 47:27; 49:22-26; Exodus 23:26; Leviticus 26:3,9; Deuteronomy 1:10-11; 6:3; 7:13-14; 8:1; 10:22; 13:17; 26:5; 28:4-11; 30:16; Job 5:25; Psalm 92:12-14; 112:1-2; 115:14; 128:3; Isaiah 54:1-2; Jeremiah 17:7-8; 23:3; 29:6; 30:19; 33:22; Ezekiel 36:10-11; John 15:16. I could go on but you get the idea.He uses words like abundantly, exceedingly, mightily, greatly, plenteously, multitudinously.Deut. 10:9; Gen. 15:5; 22:17; 32:12; Proverbs 14:28; Ex. 1:7-22; 32:15; Ps. 104:24; Ps. 127:3-4; Ez. 16:7.Consider why God blesses us with children.Gen. 32:12; Deut. 6:3; 7:13; 13:17; 28:11, 63; 30:5, 9, 15-16; Psalm 115:12-15; Luke 1:13-17; Psalm 127:5 Hosea 9:16.Consider what the Bible says about control of the womb and children.Gen.4:1; 21:1; 33:5; 48:9; Josh 24:3; 1 Sam. 2:20-21; 1 Chron.28:5; 25:4-6; Ruth 4:13; Is. 8:18;If you believe that God is truly in control of procreation and that He creates each and every child, and if you believe His Word when He says that children and fruitfulness are a blessing, why would a Christian use birth control?I think most believers would agree on the issue of chemical birth control. (I know not all, but most.) However, on the issue of non-chemical methods, I bring up this point: To participate in intercourse but to thwart the natural process of conception (via condom, diaphragm, etc) is to spill seed that has been given to man by God for specific purpose (the conception of life) and a perversion of the unity of love and life which God has decreed would be part of the act of intimacy between a man and a woman.God knew Jeremiah before he was even formed. God knows our future children before they are born. He is totally sovereign and in control of the processes of life. (Jeremiah 1:5, Psalm 139:16)Regarding Natural Family Planning (NFP) and Fertility Awareness Method (FAM), neither is completely "natural." Because husbands and wives avoid relations during her fertile time, it denies the wife the intimacy she would naturally desire with her husband, as that is the time she has been created to especially desire her husband. Second, it is a deliberate attempt to thwart God's natural design for intimacy in which the potential for life and the act of love are mutually inextricable throughout the fertile season of a woman's life.I am not trying to come across as harsh or unkind. That is not my intent. I only wish to share with you what I have found as I have studied this myself.

About Me

I am a wife and mother, seeking to do that which the Lord requires of me: to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with my God.
Our children are Nathaniel (20), Isaiah (18), Linnea (16), Andrew (13), Christopher (11), Elijah (8), Ruby (8), Ivy (6), Elizabeth (4) Abram (3) Cecelia (2), and Silas (7 months). We believe that the Lord is the Author of life and that He alone opens and closes the womb. We are happy to welcome more children! My husband is a dairy farmer and I stay at home to care for him, the children, and this house in which we live.