The groundbreaking news revealed at Comic-Con last week was that Man of Steel 2 isn't going to be a straight up Superman sequel. Rather, it will feature the first ever big screen pairing of Kal-El and Batman, going toe-to-toe, if the proposed title Man of Steel 2: Batman vs. Superman is any indication. As you can guess, this has sent the internet into overdrive as we debate what should happen in the film, what can happen in the film, and should this film even happen? Ever? Etc.

One thing this does do is open up the original Man of Steel film a lot. Lets be honest, while there was a lot to like about what Zack Snyder brought the screen, there was also a lot that left the viewership polarized.

Was the movie too choppily edited?

Were the characters developed too much and thus had no mystique (ie. boring)?

Were they developed in the same cookie cutter way they usually are in superhero movies?

Was the action out of this world or simply out of hand?

Initially, talk was what Man of Steel 2 should be about, which bad guys he should face, where he should venture to and more This all changed when he got a new co-star.

A little guy named Bruce Wayne.

How should this pairing of two of the most iconic superheroes be handled? What should we expect from a film like this? Should they be buddies? Enemies? Frenemies? Which one should be the bad guy? The good guy?

After much debate, we boiled it down to "5 Things That Must Happen When Batman and Superman Team Up in Man of Steel 2."

1 Bring back the Joker!

They did it in The Batman Superman Movie: World's Finest animated film and it seems like the right thing to do here. Before you go off and say that the late Heath Ledger created an indelible character and there's nothing anybody else could do with him, we would say you are both right and wrong. The late actor brought a villain to screen that movie audiences had heretofore never seen. However, it wasn't too long before we saw Ledger in green hair that we wondered how he could follow an actor as weighty as Jack Nicholson in that role.

Now?

Ledger makes Nicholson's Joker look like a joke. Literally. So if this movie were to find the right Joker (just like they need to find the right actor to fill the Batman suit), then we could potentially have something else people have never seen on the big screen before. Add to this all the new mayhem that a new Joker could bring (hopefully drawing on today's headlines like Christopher Nolan's films did), and this whole Superman/Batman mash-up could make this "sequel" easily transcend its predecessor. Oh, and have you been watching Under the Dome? Here's an idea for casting The Joker. Hire this kid, Alexander Koch. Maybe he's too young, but playing Junior Rennie, a sociopath that's kept his girlfriend chained in his father's bombshelter, brings the right vigor, brutality, smarm, evilness, and even compassion that The Joker needs. And he's got a mouth that needs no extra CGI effect.

Putting Batman in this film was a bold idea. Having Lex Luthor involved would not only raise the stakes, but it would allow this franchise to really spread its wings and fly off on its own. Studios are rebooting and remaking everything nowadays. What they aren't doing with the franchise is anything really different. Is The Amazing Spider-Man 2 going to be any different from the first one or the Tobey Maguire films before it? The same could be asked about Thor: The Dark World and especially The Wolverine.

By stacking this film with iconic characters it is as if Warner Bros. is drawing a line in the sand. It is separating itself from those other films and saying, "That's how those safe films over there do it." Man of Steel 2 went from being something we were interested in to something we can't stop talking about now. This says nothing of what could be done with a Lex Luthor character. How his origin story might be told. Again, if the right headlines are incorporated, considering how people feel about politicians today, Lex Luthor, the ultimate politician, might just be the character to adequately tap into that rage.

Also, Batman vs. Superman is just as important as Lex Luthor vs. The Joker. Both team ups in the same movie seem pretty necessary.

3 Its Called Vs. for a Reason, Don't Let Them Become Friends Too Fast!

As World's Finest and Public Enemies have shown us, the relationship between Superman and Batman can't be because they're already friends so they help each other out (although, at some point they're both going to have the other's back). They have to have a common cause for teaming up. Batman isn't going to play wet nurse for Superman and vice versa. Whether they are battling (ideally) The Joker, Silver Banshee, Nightshade or whoever, their alliance, much like that of Hitler and the Japanese has to be a "marriage of convienience."

Think of films like Lethal Weapon, 48 Hours, Tango & Cash or even Training Day. What made these lawful films work? Because at various times we didn't know what side of the law our main characters were on. The best parts were when the people we trusted broke the law but had a good reason for doing so; most likely having the back of the person they didn't 100% trust. A Martin Riggs/Roger Murtaugh relationship is exactly what is needed between Superman and Batman, otherwise all we're left with is two good guys being...Good.

Also, these superheroes cannot, under any circumstances, be fighting over the same woman. We all love Amy Adams, she is a wonderful, but the two baddest men on the planet are not going to go to the well over her. In this day and age of trying to over-humanize our superheroes, love is seen is the ultimate motive to sacrifice oneself for. Maybe it is...But not in this movie. Which leads us too...

4 Make The Human Stuff Interesting for a Superhuman

Moviewatchers aren't paying close to $15 a clip to see Superman and Batman resemble them on the screen. If that was the case then Before Midnight would have made $128 million at the box office it's opening weekend. Enough of the seen it before backstory crap. We know that Superman had a tough time as kid because he was from another planet. We know that Batman was scarred for life because he lost his parents at such a young age. Seeing their demise obviously didn't help.

We don't need any reminder's of this when we see Man of Steel 2. Just get right to the story. Show us the main characters, show us the problem, and show us how (and why) together, Batman and Superman can solve it. Basically, show us why Superman and Batman had to share a movie together and why it's a big deal. If this is done effectively, Man of Steel 2 won't just be talked about because of this groundbreaking pairing, it will be talked about the way we dissect such films as The Dark Knight and Marvel's The Avengers. No matter how you slice it, whether you are a superhero fan or not, those were good movies.

5 Bring On the Superhero Smackdown

While Man of Steel gave us a finale in which it seemed like the screen was throwing up CGI, that treatment is precisely what Man of Steel 2 needs. Anything less and we're looking at a denouement akin to Ang Lee's abysmal Hulk film.

These two superbeings have to go at it. It isn't enough for Batman to knock Superman into a building. Superman has to be able to storm back and punch Batman right up to Pluto. If these two superheroes are just bashing into buildings or barns, they may as well be two average joes fighting in a bar. Sure, I know that Bruce Wayne doesn't have superpowers on the level of Superman, but if Frank Miller can make a battle between them something we all want to see, then it stands to reason that so can Zack Snyder.

We hope.

However, as bad as we want to see these two icons go at it, there should be a bit of a discussion over who won the battle. Think how much more gravitas The Dark Knight has because the Joker was left hanging at the end? Lastly, does anybody really know who won the bloody battle between Freddy vs. Jason? Not really, because, sometimes...Not knowing is a good thing.

Comments (57)

this is a kick in the nuts! Man of Steel was awful and now then want to bring in Batman to ruin the whole thing even more.

I would love to see Superman vs Darksied or Brainiac and then maybe a film with Batman in it - or a straight jump to Justice League. This is a knee jerk reaction to the tons of Marvel Movies coming out and they are just going to destroy the franchise. Typical ...

"Is The Amazing Spider-Man 2 going to be any different from the first one or the Tobey Maguire films before it?"

@mushy Dumb question. Have you seen the changes they have made? It will be WAY different than any of those others. So many admins on this site like to jump to assuming that every comic book movie's the same, which is ludicrously ridiculous and shows complete ignorance in comic book films or their source material.

@ejk1 That's a really good point about introducing some of the other characters that might be showing up in Justice League.

Personally I am a little disappointed that Supes wont get his 3 movies. Batman had his trilogy all to himself (hell there was barely even a Robin) and now Superman FINALLY has movie worthy of the big guy and what do they do? Bring in Batman.

I don't mind the two having some philosophical opposing ideas, but I really do not want these two going at it in the movie. It's just going to tick me off and look lame. For me, anyways.

I also do not want ANY love triangle between Clark/Lois/Bruce. I want some focus on the Clark/Lois romance and Lois Lane as a main character/player. It'd be cool if she figured out that Bruce is Batman!

And I think Jensen Ackles would make an awesome Batman/Bruce Wayne. Really hoping the WB looks hard at him, because I do believe they will like what they see!!

I like Tyler Hoechlin on "Teen Wolf," but he's too young and frankly, too green. He tries really hard, but he's not that great of an actor. Definitely not right for a role like Bruce Wayne/Batman.

@superman81 I can see Tyler Hoechlin as Batman now that I remember him. He's certainly got the look and frame to portray the character. And with his established role as Derek Hale on Teen Wolf he can certainly convey the tortured soul of The Dark Knight/Bruce Wayne. I just want to see it done right.

The point is, people have been clamoring for the team up on the big screen for years now. MOS relaunched the DC Universe for the big screen to accommodate that demand for more DC characters to interact. This by far is an approach that differs greatly from Marvel in the way they build their franchises. We need a new Batman for the tone of a world that can plausibly conceive of a Justice League. Merging properties and introduction of multiple characters on one platform doesn't bother me as a gateway to individual franchises. It can be done and well. We have asked for this for so long and now there is doubt before the product has even been tested. Followers of the comics know that Batman and Superman do have their conflicts. They do have their bouts. Bringing them to the screen just have to be thought out well enough to translate it in a believable or at least satisfactory way. So many have already dismissed the lore for the sake of a "VS" title. I'd prefer it be called, Worlds Finest, myself. But who knows what it will be in the end. This is only the beginning. I'd even like to see, pending the success of a Justice League movie, an expansion of the franchise to present the conflict between the more broadened Justice League and the Justice League of America. A JLA movie would require no individual films for the characters. Introduce them as the team they are already established. Based on the popularity of the characters they can consider the individual films to each. Just like Marvel, DC has a wealth of characters they can use and expand upon to have these sorts of movies for years. I believe DC has created a plan to both set themselves apart from Marvel and established a viable tone with MOS to exploit the universe as long as they keep the right moving components in play. The Dark Knight trilogy sparked something. Man of Steel established something. Now if they keep moving pieces the way they need to they can become a well oiled machine.

They dont even have to fight. What could possibly cause that so early? They need to save that and build anticipation for MONEY. What needs to happen with this series is avoid reintroducing and reinventing known characters and just fit a couple new characters in. We dont need every DC hero or Justice League member for JLA, they just need to exist. Focus on adapting 'stories' instead of characters, like "death of superman" or "Lex being president" Not oh, superman meets flash, W W, green lantern, and they fight big bad guy. Btw i know nothing about or read comics.

Lmao wtf. Theyd have to set up Batman as a older known vigilant with super armor (like in one of their v.s films), kryptonite, and a good reason to fight. Itd have to be a good 12 years gap or something to establish a backstory for Bruce to be able to take on Clark...

@superman81 Yeah, they're giving Flash a film, but it would serve the character better to get a little shine from the bigger stars so the audience is more comfortable with him when the time comes for his solo films.

1. I think it's too early after the passing of Heath Ledger to have another Joker already. Ledger made an enormous impact on this generation (myself included) and it's definitely too early to recast a role he made so iconic. I think they should wait at least a decade. Besides, there are plenty of villains in Batman's rogues gallery that haven't been used in the meantime.

2. As sick as I am of actors calling themselves Lex Luthor in various Superman movies, I do agree that Luthor needs to be in the upcoming movie. THE REAL Lex Luthor, the one who sees himself as a savior to the people from the Kryptonian menace that destroyed half of Metropolis in "Man of Steel." This would be a good way to finally establish Lex Luthor as a genuinely threating villain, yet somehow sympathetic, that can cause so much harm as to pit The Dark Knight against the Man of Steel, before they realize the threat is even bigger than the two of them.

3. It's not officially titled Batman vs. Superman/Superman vs. Batman...yet. It could be World's Finest or even just Man of Steel 2 (but I hope not). They need to be at odds for a while and have a good fight (I'll get to that in a minute) but it's well-known that Superman trusts Batman more than perhaps any other person. We need to at least get the beginning of that by the end of the movie. Perhaps end with Superman giving Batman a bullet made of Kryptonite like he did in the Tower of Babel storyline?

4. We need background character moments to establish the rebooted Batman and the two heroes' separate-yet-similar motives and beliefs.

5. Where do I start...BATMAN IS HUMAN!!! If he got punched to Pluto, he would instantly die from impact of the punch alone. "Sure, I know Bruce Wayne doesn't have superpowers on the level of Superman..." Bruce Wayne has no superpowers at all! Have you watched any Batman movies?! If you had a fight like that, it would just be a cheap retread of what the first movie was with two gods duking it out. Make it drawn out and suspensful, where Batman has to lure Supes into a trap or sneak up on him and attack with Kryptonite-laced gloves or something like that. A fight between Batman and Superman IS NOT the same as a fight between Superman and Zod.

So, the solution is: 1) Throw a bunch of villains in with the assumed bunch of superheroes already in it 2) Forego any plot foreshadowing that may explain some of the interpersonal conflicts between said multi-superheroes in the flick to "get right to it" so to speak 3) Have the initial tension between them escalate into some massive onscreen CGI-laden battle but then somehow make them come together for some ulterior reason to save the world

Um, okay. I guess those ideas went well for movies like Batman & Robin and Spiderman 3 so why not, right?

I think these articles are jumping WAY off the bridge WAY too fast here. If Snyder continues to flesh out the story and includes the foreshadowing into other stand alone flicks like WW, Flash et al before the culmination in JLA like Marvel did, I still think this Batman inclusion including the whole "versus" hype could just be that: hype. We may just get a scene or two of Batman in this one, reboot that franchise with the other stand alones assuming the audience takes to the guy who dons the cape & cowl, and THEN have a movie where they interact a lot later. All of this happening spur of the moment would freaking ruin ALL the plans DC had to imitate Marvel's blueprint to success.

WB needs to leave the over the top popcorn movies to Marvel. DC movies are at their best when the movie is a shade darker and more story driven, which is the opposite for Marvel. If you look at the movies that have done well for WB they have that tone, on the other hand when they went the blockbuster route those movies have failed i.e. Green Lantern and Jonas Hex. The same could is said for Marvel blockbusters. Avengers did well because it was all mindless action, the darker characters and stories have not. People want to bash MOS because it was not a popcorn movie, which made a gazillion dollars like Iron Man 3. Sometimes the audience would rather have a great story rather than a money grab movie. DC needs to stay the course; stay in the dark as their comics have historically been. Give me content over mindless silliness any day. As for the plot, Lex should be President. In the MOS, Superman said he would be there for his country. What if Superman and Batmen were duped into fighting against each? Towards the end, they realize Lex's sick plan for domination. Thus, giving Superman and Lex a nice backstory and setting up the two for future conflicts. I would love to see Jensen Ackles as Bats, he knows the storyline, and can pull off being both a D-bag and a playboy at the same time. Where this leads for JLA, I would love to see Lex go to prison for his crimes. While in prison, he endears himself with the population and leads a mass escape from Arkham! Giving the JLA enough baddies to fight and hunt down.

As much as I'd love to see this also it concern's me For starters I think that it should have more of Nolans than Zacks tone in the movie please don't put bat and sups fighting each other, I'd rather have an sudden appearance of Hulk (lol) since Lex is almost a must in this movie who than should be the batman villain? how about just Luthor and he makes Metalo to face superman while batman goes after him?

@ejk1 I agree with WW for sure. It would have helped introduce her and she has chemistry with Superman. maybe they didnt want to go WW because of the Lois Lane love story. Flash would have been good but WB said they are doing one in 2016 so WW would have been who I chose.

@superman81 I just think that if WB/DC wants to utilize Superman in this way (introducing characters to a shared universe), then they are using the wrong character here. Bats just doesn't need Superman to shine, and vice versa; they're teflon. They will make money no matter what, especially Bats. The same cannot be said for GL, WW, or Flash. They could combine Supes with WW or Flash (race story would be a good film), giving these characters a platform for the non-comic book follower to become familiar with before trying to hoist them into the public's conscience in a large JLA film or there own stand alone series.

Just read on cosmicbooknews.com that Tyler Hoechlin is getting a screen test with Cavill for the new Batman which will be modeled after the Arkaham Orgins version according to sources. Also they say that WB wanted to get another Batman movie out and rather make 2 movies they combined them into one. They are saying its rumored that Joker/LEX will be the villains but only Lex is guranteed at this time. MOS2 will be set 1 year after MOS as well. I am sure others will get screen tests for Batman and does if WB is testing Hoechlin are they confident he can carry the Batman franchise?? Also read that JLA will be new 52 based with no MMH but it will have Cyborg

@ejk1 DC needs its own studio or WB needs to shop DC around. WB has failed DC in so many ways. I am for this movie but I if its not a WF and it is a MOS2 with Batman then it needs to be about Superman all the way but introduce Batman towards the climax of the movie. I do not agree with doing the Joker right now either and I am sure WB isnt even considering it.

There were a few interesting points made above. I agree that they can't be buddies too soon. This is a trust building venture. They must hinge this on two of their most menacing nemesis throughout the histories of their lore. Joker and Luthor could be paired brilliantly without us revisiting Ledger's iteration or Nicholson's cartoonish yet psychotic portrayal. We can bring a live-action Lex to the fold that hasn't been portrayed in film. We can bring a Joker that is neither Ledger or Nicholson but a seamless blend of the two.

There are ways this movie can be done to illustrate the differences as rivals between Batman and Superman without it being ridiculous balls to the wall action between them. The important thing is to keep Batman human. The reality of that is he would never have the physicality to match the strength of Superman. I can buy the introduction of Kryptonite in the fold brought to Bruce's attention through extensive research conducted by Wayne Industries after the startling revelation that aliens walk among us. A way of evening the odds when they inevitably throw fists. Bruce would naturally be apprehensive of such a being as Kal-El/Clark regardless of his proven benevolence. He could argue that Kal-El only stood against the Kryptonian's military because they were as much a threat to him as they were earth. He would question every move the alien makes--every deed. At the same time, because of his chosen restraint, Superman also questions the actions of Batman. Batman, this brilliant tactician to one extent also plays close to the edge presenting this loose canon facade. Lex Luthor, the brilliant tyrant seems to be thorn in Superman's side having the resources to out maneuver him. The Joker would be just the kind of lunatic he'd need to outsource to for the cause of mayhem. A way of keeping his hands clean while developing a way to either destroy or control the Man of Steel that has now established a firm presence on earth. All the while he's negotiating some kind of an alliance with Wayne Industries to have use of their research and development at his disposal. In an attempt to thwart the Joker's plans with his cohorts to overthrow power and seize both Metropolis and Gotham, Batman is forced to put aside his differences and rely on Superman as the force to combat the impossible threats that he can't as more things are revealed.

As for Batman, I'd like to see him in the most natural of forms. I'd like to see him free of armor plating and rubber body cast. Much like the bulked up Cavil for Man of Steel, I'd like to see the actor costumed in something form fitting. Something of a charcoal grey kevlar mesh weaved material. The black leathery yet pliable cowl and cape including the gloves and boots. White lenses to mask his eyes. Allow him the mobility he hasn't had on the major motion picture platform yet. I'd like to see the nimble, agile, fleeting character we see in the comics and animated representations of him. I'd like to see this ninja-like skilled martial artist and all his glory finally translated in a way that we could have some choreography incorporated in his stand alone scenes that would be intense as opposed to choppy and shot in glimpses. We'd get to see him kicking, striking with full extension, and moving acrobatically with the grace of a younger Jet Li. So when he fights Superman using the experimental advantage of Kryptonite at his disposal, it would deliver on an exciting duel before the real and more menacing threat that only Superman can contend with is upon them. Allow Batman to be grounded but also allow him to be the character we have come to more closely identify with when Frank Miller took the helm of his story reintroducing him in the 80's. The adopted dark tones of the 90's. And the culmination he'd become within the New 52. Side by side, the two heroes would look like they belong in each other's world.