British Folk (and Revival)

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I heard a piece on NPR today about the revival of British Folk. They also spoke of the older original British Folk bands. Does anyone know of a list or website that has all the info about this? You know, lists the bands, shows a tree, and the revival bands as well as the original ones... Let me know! Thanks, Jay

Tricky one, I've no idea about a 'revival' of British folk - it seems to have been going pretty strong since the popularisation of folk clubs over the last half-century. It's interesting what Raw Patrick says about folkies' "foundational myths"... I often find that most folkies actually have quite a narrow minded approach to folk-ish music that does not fall within certain boundaries. A friend of mine who runs a local folk club sees 60s 'psych folk' type bands as some kind of hideous embarassment and not something to be imitated at any cost! Then again, he's quite happy to listen to the vomit-inducing Jim Moray's cheesy electronic folk excursions, since he's somehow endorsed by the folk "establishment" (Radio 3?).

The English folk revival proper covers pretty much the whole of the 20th C., but I presume that what they were talking about on the radio is stuff a lot more modern than early Topic records recordings on 78. From the late 19th C. people begin trying to write down folk songs that are being lost as systems of local oral transmission are breaking down (even then the only people who knew some of these songs were the oldest people in the village.) But try discussing w/folkies that maybe there isn't a system of oral transmission anymore, or that folk, as is any music, is a social construct and not something that has existed forever, unchanging. They tend to get pissy, put it that way.

I would recommend these records as a way of getting into folk, or just for any reason whatsoever bcz they're fucking amazing:

Fairport Convention - Liege and Lief (Tam Lyn is amybe my favourite song ever.)Steeleye Span - The Lark in the Morning (a two CD comp. of their first 3 LPs which is all you need by them - includes a transcendent version of When I Was on Horeseback. These LPs are also a big fave with Simon Reynolds)Shirley Collins and the Albion Country Band - No Roses (the only folk album to feature someone to have played on a damned LP)

They should all be able to be found cheaply.

Alasdair Roberts - Farewell Sorrow is an excellent modern LP and on Drag City/Rough Trade so easy to find for indie kids.

The show might've been talking about Spiers and Boden or Eliza Carthy, who're more part of folk music 'proper' or anyone though, so this may be of no help.

"As a long-time Momus fan I can hardly bring myself to utter these next few words - this album is by far his worst piece of work to date and I will not be listening to it again - EVER!!! I have never begrudged handing over my cash for a Momus album but this one will be going straight back to where I bought it for a refund." sez one satisfied Amazon reviewer!

I dunno what Robald's talking about though bcz Jim Moray sounds groovy:

"English-rose front-man, Moray, laces the lyrics of folklore with powerful Matrix-styled guitars, film-score piano and a backing band which grinds together electric double bass and thundering drums. His presence on stage is something to behold. He looks scruffy on his website but he's beautiful in person.

Don't confuse this fresh indie approach with the folk rock of Fairport Convention or Steeleye Span, but rather be surprised to sense impressions of Ben Folds greets Depeche Mode greets Evanescence. It's all here, whichever musical genre ticks your box, Moray can offer it up without confusion or the awkwardness of musical experimentations. He even played the piano with his arms crossed at one point."

Raw Patrick - good call on Spiers & Boden, I've seen them live a few times - always a pleasure.

Re: Jim Moray - I suppose the artists that provoke the strongest reactions are the most interesting... I like the idea that folk can be moved in new and strange directions, but what I've heard of Jim's music does nothing for me - the beats and sounds seemed a little clichéd and it all felt a bit MOR to me, I'm afraid. Shame, because I'd really like to like him! :(

As an addendum - perhaps JM will cut loose a bit more on his second album? IIRC his first was done as part of a university music course, so he may have had to play a bit safer?

I don't know how helpful it will be to the original poster, but http://www.theunbrokencircle.co.uk/ might turn up some interesting stuff, although it's more concerned with psychedelic, odd and abstract folky stuff (oldies like Incredible String Band, Comus, Forest and new stuff like the 'New Weird America' thing).

The thing I don't really get is that the stuff which the young people seem to be calling new folk or wyrd folk or whatever doesn't really sound like folk to me, it sounds like folk-tinged singer songwriter material. Not that there's anything at all wrong with that, I like some of the stuff (especially King Creosote and some of his Fence mates). (NB this is an observation adapted from a theme taught to me in a pub one evening by Dadaismus, who knows a lot more about this stuff than I.)

The Eighteenth Day of May come closer than anyone else I've heard to that late 60s / early 70s British folk-rock sound. They're good.

A lot of the 60s/70s stuff is rhythmically pretty hot and heavy in a way that the newer stuff isn't.

Okay, so we're talking about folk rock here right,rather than straight-up trad folk, which can hot and heavy enough in its own addled way? I would love it if I could stumble on some decent bands that were ploughing the same sort of furrow as peak-era Fairport or Trees or whatever and that didn't suck outright. I know it's sort of backwards looking of me, but there's a certain clanging and organic feel and texture and god damn guitar sound that I never really feel I can hear enough of. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. All I can think of right now that fit the bill in any way are Ghost and Acid Mothers Temple ca. La Novia. Certainly no British bands that I've come across.

X-posts: I don't mind Espers, but they seem rather too gentle for me. Lucky Luke I've heard of, but am yet to hear.

also worth looking out for, a new compilation called Strange Folk, with tracks from the aforementioned Vashti, Tyranosaurus Rex, Donovan, Espers, Incredible String Band, Lucky Luke (iirc) and loads of other ace people I can't remember cos i left it at home.

To play that sort of stuff you have to be a really shit hot musician - I mean, Richard Thompson, Swarbrick, Dave Mattacks, Martin Carthy etc etc. Prime time Fairport are like the Mahavishnu Orchestra in Arran sweaters.

I wish more bands were interested in causing a ruckus rather than dancing round the bong like doe-eyed gnomes. I'm afraid we've left the bacchnalian part to Julian Cope and I think that's a fucking travesty.

I wish there were more songs like Tam Lyn by Fairport, i.e funky Black Sabbath. Swedish doom band Witchcraft get there sometimes.

most of the the wyrd-folk stuff is only surface level weird. The second Steeleye recording of The Blacksmith is so much more bizarre than any of them, and that isn't even what it's trtying to do - what an amazing arrangement it has. Modern wyrd-folk types too much like Colin Hunt types... "You do have to be mad to work here but it doesn't help" etc.

Who was it who came up with the term "Wyrd Folk" in the first place? What a shit genre term! It stinks of a decal job - of someone imposing their bullshit meaning/issues or wtfe on something that already existed. Fuck that shit. I mean really. Fuck it.

The message I'm getting from this thread is that newer musicans aren't up to the standard of older musicians in folk music? Obviously ppl like mattacks, dransfield, guys from gryphon, thompson etc are hard to follow (evidence on eg Fairport's ROCKING live album "House Full") but I had kind of thought folk would be a genre where powerful/expressive musicianship/group playing would still be at some sort of premium. Dissapointing if not so.

Anyway, "No Roses" by Shirley Collins/Albion band is fucking great, and should get more props, basically.

Also, little known album is the comp of Etchingham Steam Band recordings - Shirley C and Ashley H's "unplugged" ensemble from the early 1970's. Unplugged so they could still do gigs even when there power cuts! Worth picking up, anyway, as is anything w/Shirley C singing on it, TBH.

Pashmina - No Roses is great, but don't you find the bass and drums on Albion Band and related albums (such as Morris On) somewhat... plodding and uninspired? Especially compared to Span or Fairport...That said, I'll agree Maria Marten is absolutely incredible!

AFAIK the terrible term wyrd-folk was coined by Stone Breath's Tim Renner.

But, before I begin to sound like a prog rocker, you don't have to be a brilliant musician to play folk music - in fact, one of the reasons I got sick of that whole scene was its muso-ishness (especially, fiddle players who only want to play as fast and as twiddly as possible!). To play like Fairport you have to be pretty good tho of course!

That's a good record that is. 'Lay Me Low' or whatever it's called just kills me. Totally tramples over any sort of aesthetic barriers I might have erected against that sort of soppy twaddle and stomps all over my jaded old heart. Sniffle.

Didn't really know there was any "revival" of British folk right now in terms of new bands playing it. I knew there was a revival of interest in the last few years, otherwise I wouldn't really know who Fairport Convention was, honestly.

I've often thought that 60s British folk revivalists treated folk music with much more respect and subtlty than their American counterparts did (who went for "simplicity" and "rawness"). This might also explain why I find Brit bands better at playing blues than their white American counterparts.

Not to deny your 'Maria Marten' love, Pash, but I've always found that 'Poor Murdered Woman' slays me even more - it's not as weird, sure, but it genuinely affects me on a mental and physical level like little else I can think of (ie. it makes me want to cry).

And I might as well declare that I prefer the first Steeleye album to Liege and Lief. And Full House is also superior imo. S: 'Poor Will and the Jolly Hangman', there's little better. And I've really been getting into those Richard & Linda albums. 'Calvary Cross', ... whoah.

Oof, I picked up a vinyl copy of the reissue and it's so, so wonderful. It's really, really got to me. Less than NV but I have some vaguer connections with the Hull area and it's enchanting me. Love this place, this is really unexpected.

For those into ‘digital ownership’ and who are trying to figure out what to spend their emusic credits on as that service spins down the drain, they still had the expanded version for sale as of this past Monday

Of all my favorite genres, I have the least experience with folk music and I'm quite scared to find how deep it goes (but I guess even with other genres I like, you rarely get a sense of how big the whole picture is). This feels long delayed because I got into June Tabor about 15 years ago (see my Tabor thread revive) and only occasionally dip back in to folk.

How good a guide is the Electric Eden book? I guess it leans more towards the psychedelic side?

Are there any guides that go through European folk that has a similar enough aesthetic to british folk?

About 20 years ago a friend gave me a stack of C90 cassettes of mostly Enlglish fold and folk rock. I had just gotten out of a lengthy relationship and, because I worked retail, would be mostly alone during the holidays and unable to travel back home. I was unfamiar with the genre but these tapes really resonated with me and I was grateful for the time my friend spent recording the tapes which even included some handmade cover art. I still have these in a box somewhere.

Silly Sisters and Tabor's Airs and Graces comprised one tape. Fotheringay and Triona another? Definietly Steeleye Span and some Sandy Denny and Fairport.

Anne Briggs The Time Has Come was reissued maybe a month later and that record really broke the genre open for me. I essentially followed the thread created by those records and would flip through issues of Dirty Linen when I came across them for other names and connections. I feel like I've really only scratched the surface and haven't even really begun exploring other European folk music.

I learned about Shirley Collins, bought and read and listened to everything I could find, it led me to everyone else. Her stuff is still my favorite for Dolly's arrangements (Anthems in Eden with EMC of London in particular) and there is a huge family tree to explore from there. I was also really into the US/UK folk divide so I enjoyed all of the Lomax-recorded Child Ballads etc. Electric Eden is a good read and I would definitely recommend it.

European folk that is not UK/British folk is a total mystery to me but I would love to find an interpreter I love as much as I love Shirley & co.

I've been listening to Malicorne (amazing) and there's a lot of Scottish sounding stuff in there. I have heard that a lot of Scottish tradition comes from france though (I should know this, could have swore a music teacher told us that bagpipes and tartan were french).

Malicorne is the one French folk group I am familiar with and the records I’ve heard I absolutely love. The droning quality is blissful to me. If anyone knows more about the French folk scene, I’m all ears.

Re Electric Eden. I haven’t read it but the library has a copy I should borrow. Sounds like a good winter read

I did a posts search for Malicorne the other day and found a lot of helpful info about French folk. I came at Malicorne more as a prog band but seemingly their early days were more in the classic folk rock mode.

I should watch BBC's Folk Britania again, that was very generous to give us a full 3 episodes because the other ones on metal, prog and synth only really skimmed the surface (although it was nice to see some less familiar faces). I didn't pay close enough attention to all 3 episodes when they first aired.

Checking all the subgenre charts could take forever but there's a lot of interesting looking stuff there (Warsaw City Folk?). Cant find a Russian category oddly. Charts probably aren't particularly reliable outside of the traditions most familiar to us (Robbie Robertson at no2 of Native American, Okami videogame soundtrack at no1 of East Asian).

How good a guide is the Electric Eden book? I guess it leans more towards the psychedelic side?

Are there any guides that go through European folk that has a similar enough aesthetic to british folk?

How did you guys find your way around?

― Robert Adam Gilmour

electric eden is a great book but i found it unfortunately not very useful as a listening guide. rob young has a real gift for describing music in a creative and tantalizing way that i found in many cases the reality didn't hold up to.

rym charts have some good stuff in them but require extensive filtering to get rid of, say, strasserites.

I bought myself 'anthems in eden' on vinyl as a xmas present. Been digging the other Watersons stuff I got too; was the 'soul cake' song really creepy for people in the past, or is it just modern ears?

I feel like there's something - maybe deliberate - that folk revival people were doing that generates a lot of the eerieness. Compare different versions of a standard like "Lord Bateman", Nic Jones's for example has a tune that's at odds with the lyric in adding this layer of melancholy to it