Balance is more then just making all HARs have an equal share of cheap moves, or making all HARs equally strong...

If you want real balance, HARs are to be internally balanced, no particular move should be overpowered compared to the others, and the HARs should at that point be leveled to an equal point, HARs like jaguar pyros and force have all had many "patches" and now would come close (pyros LK/Force a.RK arent perfect yet :p), thats how all HARs should be, not uber cheap, and it wouldnt even be possible to have every HAR like mantis, mantis simply has too much priority, making others like mantis would make mantis' priority weak._________________
All errors in spelling and grammer are entirely by design in order to enrage those who have nothing left to add to the discussion and therefore seek superiority through personal attacks.

maybe he didnt mean make them as strong as mantis in the same way as mantis is strong? i dont think when eh says "make others like mantis" give them his awesome normals, i think he meant give them their own [filtered] that makes them just as scary. not take mantis's [filtered] and put it on the others

maybe he didnt mean make them as strong as mantis in the same way as mantis is strong? i dont think when eh says "make others like mantis" give them his awesome normals, i think he meant give them their own [filtered] that makes them just as scary. not take mantis's [filtered] and put it on the others

that would make sense if only Mantis didnt completely own every HAR in every aspect but power._________________
All errors in spelling and grammer are entirely by design in order to enrage those who have nothing left to add to the discussion and therefore seek superiority through personal attacks.

well as an example, with Jag even though Mantis would trounce me with his priority in a normal fight, i could still win with Jags awesome mobility, but now Jag LOST that strength while Mantis still has his

Devil is immensely strong and at first glanse very overpowering, however Devil falls short his array of moves, he only has a few, and so there are much less tactics for him

Although Devil is statisticly VERY overpowered, once you learn any of the other characters well, Devil is left behind and becomes balanced, even underpowered because its harder to keep the element of surprise up, countertactics were found and so Devil is no longer overpowered

In OMF, this is what we now need to do with Mantis, but its gonna be made a lot harder by the lack of moves and huge ammounts of tactics for Mantis, but it can be done, as long as Mantis players are loosing to Jags and Katanas and stuff it can be done

And it has been done, I remember when the game first came out everyone complained for a short time about Chronos' Teleports however people quickly got used to evading them and now no one complains

Gargoyle as well is not overpowered, it just requires very different tactics to defeat than the other HARs, get used to those tactics and you wont be complaining about it anymore

This is how a fighting game, even OMF SHOULD be, the balance changes depending on what tactics are around, and its why instead of whining at DE, you should try to find Countertactics to your problems first, else this is what happens, find a countertactic and everything is fine again

maybe he didnt mean make them as strong as mantis in the same way as mantis is strong? i dont think when eh says "make others like mantis" give them his awesome normals, i think he meant give them their own [filtered] that makes them just as scary. not take mantis's [filtered] and put it on the others

that would make sense if only Mantis didnt completely own every HAR in every aspect but power.

Yup, I agree with Tuffy here (:shocked:); Mantis doesn't have any weaknesses. There are no parts about it that don't completely own every other robot. It would make sense to give good abilities to the other HARs, except there's nothing you can give to other HARs without it taking away from Mantis.

Note that the huge list of things above aren't all bad; Mantis should certainly have some of these. It's having them all in the same robot that makes it horribly unbalanced. It needs some weaknesses.

By the way Mordax, I only started playing at 2172. Don't blame me for other people's complaints.

Devil is immensely strong and at first glanse very overpowering, however Devil falls short his array of moves, he only has a few, and so there are much less tactics for him

Although Devil is statisticly VERY overpowered, once you learn any of the other characters well, Devil is left behind and becomes balanced, even underpowered because its harder to keep the element of surprise up, countertactics were found and so Devil is no longer overpowered

In OMF, this is what we now need to do with Mantis, but its gonna be made a lot harder by the lack of moves and huge ammounts of tactics for Mantis, but it can be done, as long as Mantis players are loosing to Jags and Katanas and stuff it can be done

And it has been done, I remember when the game first came out everyone complained for a short time about Chronos' Teleports however people quickly got used to evading them and now no one complains

Gargoyle as well is not overpowered, it just requires very different tactics to defeat than the other HARs, get used to those tactics and you wont be complaining about it anymore

This is how a fighting game, even OMF SHOULD be, the balance changes depending on what tactics are around, and its why instead of whining at DE, you should try to find Countertactics to your problems first, else this is what happens, find a countertactic and everything is fine again

I find it strange that you are saying this, when the best players of the game wouldnt agree on half of that. (Player and Saiyaman.)_________________
All errors in spelling and grammer are entirely by design in order to enrage those who have nothing left to add to the discussion and therefore seek superiority through personal attacks.

Ironically, Devil still beasts at high-level Tekken Tag tournies - he's used as a second Kazuya. A better example would be MvC2's Doctor Doom, once considered the game's best character but now #8 if that. Why? Because the wavedashing technique, which is available to all characters, eliminates most of what made Doom overpowered. If something like this is found that invalidates Mantis' strengths, the game will be a lot more playable. However, I wouldn't just sit around waiting for that to happen - I'd rather see Mantis fixed instead.