One thing for sure very few US pliots died compared to the enemy and if a F35 or F22 ever engages in head to head combat its a extreme mission failure of catastrophic proportions.

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That is true. But US won't always be able to fight at BVR... BVR is actually exception rather than rule, for various reasons I have outlined several times. Even Israeli, who scored about half of kills attributed to F15 (and maybe F16) always favored WVR engagements.

I'm a little late to this discussion, I had a talk with my daddy who works on teen series fighters for Usaf, he said this.....f-35 should not be looked at as an air superiority platform even though at times it may find itself in such role. It is designed mostly as a sensor platform and ground attack. Sort of like a football captain. Sensors gather vital information (DAS), disseminate it to various platform, and contribute as a strike fighter. Like a mini awac/bomber/ mini fighter. For air dominance f-15 can use the radar info of f-35 and use it to be a better air superiority fighter, same as any other escorting fighter. It's team work.

So far there has beem 3 or 4 prototypes made of the T50, bare bones that have been tested to fly, the PAK-FA is seven years away from production and thats just if things go right, which they will not. In the real world there is a simple fact of life... any major increase in avionics technology will appear in American fighters long before anything coming out of Russia. Just look at radar tech as an example. AESA radars are operational in two USAF fighters (F-15C and F-1 and is an export in F-15s and F-16s

I'm a little late to this discussion, I had a talk with my daddy who works on teen series fighters for Usaf, he said this.....f-35 should not be looked at as an air superiority platform even though at times it may find itself in such role. It is designed mostly as a sensor platform and ground attack. Sort of like a football captain. Sensors gather vital information (DAS), disseminate it to various platform, and contribute as a strike fighter. Like a mini awac/bomber/ mini fighter. For air dominance f-15 can use the radar info of f-35 and use it to be a better air superiority fighter, same as any other escorting fighter. It's team work.

I'm a little late to this discussion, I had a talk with my daddy who works on teen series fighters for Usaf, he said this.....f-35 should not be looked at as an air superiority platform even though at times it may find itself in such role. It is designed mostly as a sensor platform and ground attack. Sort of like a football captain. Sensors gather vital information (DAS), disseminate it to various platform, and contribute as a strike fighter. Like a mini awac/bomber/ mini fighter. For air dominance f-15 can use the radar info of f-35 and use it to be a better air superiority fighter, same as any other escorting fighter. It's team work.

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Hey Katherine. How is it going? What you have stated actually makes quite a bit of sense as the F-35 is not as stealthy as the F-22 nor quite as agile as the F-15 or F-16 nor has the weapons load capabilities of the teen series fighters, although I can understand about the low weapons load as a stealth plane would need to carry weapons in internal bays to maintain stealth.

F-35 is supposed to have a good IRST as opposed to F-22 which does not have any IRST (whether it needs one or not is a different debate). So a good radar, good IRST, RWR, Jammers etc equip the F-35 to obtain good situational awareness and vector other fighters onto the targets. Having said that, it is not as invincible or miracle of a plane that AA makes it to be and neither is the F22. Both of these planes have a lot of limitations and while propagandists make a lot of noise, more and more glitches start to crop up.

Although such glitches are likely to appear in any new technology and have to be worked on constantly, the questions that keeps on haunting the primary or potential users is, "Is it worth the money"?

And IMHO, it would be foolhardy to write off comparable aircrafts such as the J-20 and PAK FA as AA so easily does.

I'm a little late to this discussion, I had a talk with my daddy who works on teen series fighters for Usaf, he said this.....f-35 should not be looked at as an air superiority platform even though at times it may find itself in such role. It is designed mostly as a sensor platform and ground attack. Sort of like a football captain. Sensors gather vital information (DAS), disseminate it to various platform, and contribute as a strike fighter. Like a mini awac/bomber/ mini fighter. For air dominance f-15 can use the radar info of f-35 and use it to be a better air superiority fighter, same as any other escorting fighter. It's team work.

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F35 tried to be interceptor / tactical bomber / ground attack / reconnaissance / air controller and intelligence plane. As interceptor, it is too slow , and lacks maneuverability. As bomber, it does not carry large enough payload. As ground attack aircraft... it's okay, as long as it doesn't have to perform CAS. Reconaissance... too expensive. Air controller... it only has single pilot.

Ho ho ho when a woman says it everybody jumps in and say "i agree", on the other hand f-22 and f-35 were bashed endlessly.

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I suggest you read carefully what I wrote. Its called disagreeing without being impolite. A forum is a platform for healthy debating which is quite different from trolling. I am afraid you have been exposed to Averageamerican's trolling for so long, you have forgotten what a healthy debate is. If someone is putting his/her points across in a polite and decent manner, I would be happy to reciprocate in the same manner irrespective of whether I agree or disagree.

Have you read Jungibaaz's posts? Not everyone agrees with him every time nor does he agree with everyone else's viewpoints every time. But his posts are decent and polite, provides logical arguments and he doesn't have problem accepting other's views when proved wrong. In fact, the same can be said about most of the members here. Most of the flame wars usually start with one member (usually AA) making a trollish comment.

Rest assured I still don't think the F-22 and F-35 are great fighters that they are made out to be and my post was to a member of IDF where sex of the member is completely irrelevant.

F35 tried to be interceptor / tactical bomber / ground attack / reconnaissance / air controller and intelligence plane. As interceptor, it is too slow , and lacks maneuverability. As bomber, it does not carry large enough payload. As ground attack aircraft... it's okay, as long as it doesn't have to perform CAS. Reconaissance... too expensive. Air controller... it only has single pilot.

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See the problem is that the manufacturers are not in a position to admit to these problems as that would mean cancelled orders and the consequences would be huge. There is an age old Latin proverb, "Caveat Emptor" which mean "Buyer beware". So if the potential buyers knowingly want to make a mistake by ordering this aircraft, well they have every right to do so. Having said that, I do feel sorry for those air forces that are planning to replace their frontline combat aircrafts with this..errr "fighter"!

Speaking for my country, I am soooo glad that the MoD has not expressed any interest in this aircraft. In fact, I hope that the Navy considers the Rafale M or the F/A-18 SH (provided the americans agree to complete ToT)or the MiG 35 for future carriers.

And for f-22 indiandefence.com/forums/us-european-defence-affairs/16993-f22-analysis-expanded.html

It would be good if you could discuss the analysis

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Oh I will. It's just that I think both my parents know things that they wont mention. I've even found my mom kicking my dad under the table when he tried to mumble something about the ranges. But even an f22 will be a better fighter with f35 next to it in the sky. Basically what I gathered from their conversations that f35 is a systems upgrades made to other fighters except they won't be carrying those loads, another will, called f35. But he went on to say the airframe had to be designed that way to accommodate the electronics which made it looks like your mom(she wasn't in the room this time)....but this is because back then they were relying on the fact that Usaf was going with 700 f22s and no Usaf f35 would be left without an escort of f22. So kinematics of f35 became secondary in importance since it would have the f22 to worry about the actual fight. But Shit hit the fan and now we have 170 f22 and only half of those will be combat ready. So the job of bodyguard will fall on the f15. But not to worry cause f15 will be 10x better with f35 next to it than its ever been by itself. So he said. And I asked what the he'll is navy to do then? They will have the escort of f18? A much inferior mule??? He then said, I don't work for navy pumpkin ....

Hey Katherine. How is it going? What you have stated actually makes quite a bit of sense as the F-35 is not as stealthy as the F-22 nor quite as agile as the F-15 or F-16 nor has the weapons load capabilities of the teen series fighters, although I can understand about the low weapons load as a stealth plane would need to carry weapons in internal bays to maintain stealth.

F-35 is supposed to have a good IRST as opposed to F-22 which does not have any IRST (whether it needs one or not is a different debate). So a good radar, good IRST, RWR, Jammers etc equip the F-35 to obtain good situational awareness and vector other fighters onto the targets. Having said that, it is not as invincible or miracle of a plane that AA makes it to be and neither is the F22. Both of these planes have a lot of limitations and while propagandists make a lot of noise, more and more glitches start to crop up.

Although such glitches are likely to appear in any new technology and have to be worked on constantly, the questions that keeps on haunting the primary or potential users is, "Is it worth the money"?

And IMHO, it would be foolhardy to write off comparable aircrafts such as the J-20 and PAK FA as AA so easily does.

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Listen, a word of advice to you. Don't listen to AA, this guy thinks America is 10 years ahead in human evolution. He is a shot gun weilding patriot who has learnt very little about other cultures and learns most of his info from Fox news and wiki. Every country has strengths and weaknesses. Us was first to design a working AESA but to this day they don't have an IRST for God's sake, to this day we have not built a supersonic cruise missile. I find his behavior a little disrespectful. To be hornets an entire thread was shot down yesterday because I could not handle his disrespectful views on other cultures so I said some disrespectful things of my own to him and now the thread is gone.