CSBG Archive

Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed #156

This is the one-hundred and fifty-sixth in a series of examinations of comic book urban legends and whether they are true or false. Click here for an archive of the previous one-hundred and fifty-five. Click here for a similar archive, only arranged by subject.

Let’s begin!

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: Actor Bill Hader got his breakout film role due to his interest in Sandman comics.

STATUS: True

Bill Hader was not exactly plucked from obscurity for his minor role in the film You, Me and Dupree in 2006.

Hader was already a cast member on Saturday Night Live (when he got the call that he made the show, Hader was reading a Sandman trade paperback). However, while he was not totally obscure, he was not nearly a big name in the acting game, which is reflected in the size of his role in the film (which I watched the other day On Demand to see just how much of the film he was in – boy, that film was bad).

He is basically in one scene in the film. However, in that one scene (a bunch of guys are sitting around watching a football game) he met the actor Seth Rogan. While not filming, the two began talking, and after about ten minutes of discussing comic books (their mutual love for Sandman and Neil Gaiman, specifically), Rogan offered him a role in the film he was writing with his writing partner, Evan Goldberg, Superbad.

While doing Superbad, he also had a bit part in Rogan’s Knocked Up film.

Both films were produced by Judd Apatow, and Hader soon had a part in the next Apatow film, Forgetting Sarah Marshall.

And he’s going to be appearing in the NEXT Apatow film, Pineapple Express.

”If you watch ‘You, Me and Dupree,’ he barely does anything,” said Mr. Rogen, who played Mr. Hader’s police partner in ”Superbad.” ”There was almost nothing to imply that he was a good actor at all. We just liked the same movies, and the same comic books, and that was basically it.”

Interestingly enough, when Neil Gaiman did a reading for charity at this year’s New York Comic Con, guess who introduced him?

DanLarkin

dhnaka

I saw the second half of You, Me and Dupree and found it funny. Funnier than any clip I’ve ever seen from an Apatow geek movie at least. Plus, with the exception of 40-year old virgin, Apatow casts his movies way too ugly for me to watch one its entirety.

It’s an obscure variation of “gun” going back to Middle English, and there may be some connection there a goon as a gunsel–an American underworld slang term for a hoodlum that may go back to the late 19th century.

The term “gunsel” was derived from a Yiddish word (“gantzel”) and/or a German word (“gansel” or “ganzel”) for a small bird. A related word is “gosling” for a baby goose, and the German word for goose is “gans”).

The Yiddish word became a derogatory slang term for a homosexual while the German word became slang for an odd-looking person (other variations in English have appeared as gonsel, gonsil, gonzel, guncel, et cetera).

“Goon” was also a shortened form of “gooney,” which was a variation of “gony.” The first use of “gony” in print in English with the meaning of “simpleton” is from 1580 (probably derived from the Scandinavian “gonyel” for “a stupid fellow”–which, of course, would also make it etymologically related to the Yiddish and German words. “Gony” and “gooney” then became quite prominent in British publications in the 19th century beginning in 1804.

Thus, while I can’t speak to how Spike Milligan came up with the title of “The Goon Show,” it’s clear that the term “gooney” (and probably the short form “goon”) was widely used in England going back to the early 19th century.

It also seems highly improbable that the term “goon” for a hoodlum was derived from E.C. Segar’s character.

The Fantome

Another fact about dear Alice was that when she spoke, no one but Wimpy could understand her. Even the readers saw only a scribble in her word balloons. I also vaguely remember an episode when Alice “fell” for Popeye as she was following him with “hearts in her eyes”. Popeye obviously spent the episode running away from her.

Alice being nude (at least at the beginning) was pretty odd as well. She had full frontal nudity, but the “fur” on her groin covered up the genatalia. Her full chest was exposed, but there were no breasts to speak of. I guess the fact that was was represented as a “monster” instead of a person made this OK. -

On the subject of Martin Goodman’s men’s magazines, I actually have a couple of these (not comics related) called Stag. One dates back to 1952 and the other from 1968 and they were pretty lurid (mostly very violent), including in the 1952 issue an article on “justice in the Arab world” showing photographs of recently decapitated perps (heads only). Pretty grim stuff.

Biggles

thom Young – Spike Milligan was on record repeatly during his life giving credit for the use of the word Goon in The Goon Show coming from Popeye (The cartoon more than the comic strip I think) rather from being familiar with it has an English word.

The Fantome

I have some Popeye comics where later appearences of Alice depict her with a skirt, combat boots, blouse and “Minnie Pear” type bonnet, complete with exposed price tag. The arm & leg hair is still quite noticable, but she looks much more human – in fact could probably get by as an ugly, hairy, big nosed woman.

Alice eventually became Sweet Pea’s nanny. A bit of a reverse take on Felix the Cat, where The Professor would spend nearly every waking hour trying to capture Felix and his “Bag of Tricks” – unless he needed a baby sitter – the he’d call Felix and The Cat would come running.

Segar was a first in a lot of ways. Alice the Goon was one of the first examples of a face turn in comics. People liked her, so he brought her back as a good guy.

I’m assuming you already did the “Jeep” story a long time ago, yes?

And seeing Jim Mooney draw Good Girl is not as hard to believe as you think. One of MY favorite urban legends (which I ALSO heard from Fred Hembeck) is that Jim would regularly pencil Supergirl naked, and ink in the costume. Hey, you get your jollies where you can. That’s another one I assume has been addressed a long time ago, but hey, Liberty Valance Effect.

Doug Atkinson

“The term â€œgunselâ€ was derived from a Yiddish word (â€gantzelâ€) and/or a German word (â€ganselâ€ or â€œganzelâ€) for a small bird. A related word is â€œgoslingâ€ for a baby goose, and the German word for goose is â€œgansâ€).

The Yiddish word became a derogatory slang term for a homosexual while the German word became slang for an odd-looking person (other variations in English have appeared as gonsel, gonsil, gonzel, guncel, et cetera).”

It amuses me that “gunsel” is now used to mean “gun-wielding gangster” by people who clearly don’t know its linguistic roots. (This may be due to the use of the term in “The Maltese Falcon,” though it’s pretty clear from context that it’s not a flattering way to refer to someone.)

Alex R

I found this DVD of the old Ben Stiller Show and Judd Apatow worked on it. He’ s not actually in the show much, but appears as ‘Foxy the Network Fox’ who mocks the very network the show is on… and it was cancelled.

Good Stuff.

I haven’t seen any of those films.

Bombardem

I’m sure this one has been asked and answered, but I cant find anything on it. Was the Lee/Kirby Black Panther responsible for the Black Panthers Party name? I know the symbol of a Black Panther was used by black activists prior to T’Challa’s appearance, but I dont know how widespread it was, and if L/K stole it from them, or what.

Has anyone ever picked Stan Lee’s brain about his memories of that, and Marvels attempt to change T’Challas name to The Black Leopard in FF #112 in order to distance themselves from the radicals?

It seems like it would be an interesting tidbit to ask Stan about.

Armitage

“Iâ€™m sure this one has been asked and answered, but I cant find anything on it. Was the Lee/Kirby Black Panther responsible for the Black Panthers Party name? I know the symbol of a Black Panther was used by black activists prior to Tâ€™Challaâ€™s appearance, but I dont know how widespread it was, and if L/K stole it from them, or what.”

Bombardem

Mike Blake

Biggles wrote:
“Spike Milligan was on record repeatly during his life giving credit for the use of the word Goon in The Goon Show coming from Popeye (The cartoon more than the comic strip I think) rather from being familiar with it has an English word.”

I would think more from the comic strip more than the cartoon; can anybody remember (my old friend The FanTome, perhaps?) any Popeye cartoons with Alice the Goon in them?

acidhag

Kenny

No, the Black Panther party did not take it’s name from the comic book character. While the Black Panther Party with Huey Newton and Bobby Seale was not named the Black Panthers when the character was created, there were other Black Panther parties in the country at the time. Most people credit the name to Stokely Carmichael who used a Black Panther logo in a voter registration drive in Alabama.

Not everything originates with comic books, you know.

Steven Rowe

At the time of Pussycat, every men’s magazine had to have a comic to compete with Playboy. Pussycat was Goodman’s version. Goodman in the late 1960s had his men’s magazines and his men’s sweat magazines (men’s sweat were those with the violent covers, often with Nazis and brands, etc). It’s my understanding that all of the stories in Pussycat were reprints – and that there are many more out there. Al Hartely was working on a Pussycat story when he got his religious conversion – and while he didnt consider it obscene, he did consider it questionable.
when Goodman started his new line of comics in 1975, he also did men;’s magazines (dunno if it had a comic or not) – the comics (fandom calls them Atlas-seaboard) was gone fairly shortly, but the men’s magazine still remains!

Apodaca

Brian Cronin

I get what you’re saying, Kenny, but whenever a term predates another use of the term, I don’t think it is unreasonable to wonder if the group got their name from the first popular usage of the term.

I mean, who would have thought that the Weathermen would have their name be based on a Dylan lyric? I think them using a comic character as their inspiration is believable – that is not to say that I think they DID, as I think they likely did NOT. But I wouldn’t be shocked if they did (surprised, yes – shocked, no).

BTW, although fairly common knowledge, I didn’t read anyone here referencing how T’Challa once changed his name from “The Black Panther” to “The Black Leopard” in order to disavow any affiliation with the Black Panther organization. The name change was short-lived and terribly silly, considering The Black Panther is the cerimonial title for the leader of The Panther tribe, not simply a chosen superhero identity.

The Fantome

All this Black Panther name talk got me thinking about Iron Man’s affiliation with the Black Sabbath song of the same name. I once read an interview with Geezer Butler, who explained that Ozzy gave himself the nickname “Iron Man” when he was a boy. (Since he was born in 1948, this more than likely pre-dated Marvel’s Iron Man by several years). When Butler was saddled with the envious task of composing lyrics for Iron Man on the Paranoid album, he was informed that there could be no applied-reference to Marvel’s character. Thus “Iron Man” of Black Sabbath fame may have predated Tony Stark, but it appears the time-travelling hero “turned to steel” was a character specifically created by Butler so Marvel would have little legal fodder in the case of a lawsuit. Considering Butler’s Iron Man is a pretty cool concept of itself (a time-traveller who became a steel statue after an encounter with a great magnetic field, turning mad from being conscious during his immobile state and becoming a crazed serial killer after the paralysis “wore off”), wouldn’t it be cool to have both Iron Men meet in comics form?

[…] of the previous one-hundred and fifty-five. Click here for a similar archive, only arranged by shttp://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/22/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-156/Circus city: A summer guide to Portland’s gonzo social scene The OregonianIt’s a Sunday night at […]

[…] of the previous one-hundred and fifty-five. Click here for a similar archive, only arranged by shttp://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/05/22/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-156/Times briefs The Times of AcadianaCamp Bon Coeur, a local nonprofit summer camp for children with […]

The Adventures Of Pussycat, were indeed reprints, from Martin Goodman’s Men’s Magazines. The strip was drawn by the likes of Wally Wood and Bill Ward, but Jim Mooney drew most of them. I’ve often thought that Codename; Knockout was based/Influenced by Pussycat.