Based on a few things knocked back and forth in the Mercy discussion, krelm's thread about orc-sphere diversity, and Real's post about raiding/trading crafts...

1. The rationale behind the "mercy" command is to encourage PvP by providing an escape from PK.2. There are people who would like to see non-orcs in the orc sphere, as a source of RP-creating conflict.3. People like nice things (resources, in this case), and they like fun, RP-generating ways of getting them even better (as per Trading).

I don't have anything near as detailed a write-up for this as Real, but the basics of it are this:

Orcs have access to objects in their warrens/territory that can be used to produce resources, but only humans have the crafts necessary to use them. This gives orcs incentive to take captives, and more players their side to RP with as a whole). Make these activities dangerous (the crafts damaging), and you have a reason why Striza isn't just throwing snaga at them.

To limit the numbers of humans being held orc-side, there could be a craft using these same objects, but requiring a certain number of followers, allowing the humans the chance of mounting an escape.

This could, potentially, offer humans a reason to capture orcs alive as well, both in order to access information on who, if anyone, is being held captive, and perhaps (depending on the actions of players) for prisoner exchange...opening up chances for double-crosses and ambush, of course.

Yes, one-hundred times over and again. Not everyone's going to dig playing a slave once they are caught, but they can always opt to retire and at least get some roleplay out of their character's loss as opposed to immediate death.

This also gives humans a much better reason to not execute orc prisoners.

I do think, however, that a system like this would require more than just RP on the part of the exchange; it'd require some design. Otherwise, you're just asking for someone to twink and ruin a prisoner exchange, thereby re-enforcing the idea that exchanges cannot be trusted -- and then we're back to square one, and nobody survives PVP.

That's the ultimate crux with wanting PVP to be something more than just PKing. It requires a lot of trust to get there, and I've seen a couple of twinks from both spheres that have largely influenced a lack of trust between the spheres.

In short, I think for this to work well, the exchange would almost have to be handled vNPCly in part. A script allows an orc of certain rank or above to send a missive vNPCly to Utterby, and vice-versa; these missives could be a pair of modified message boards, and would only be used to discuss exchanges. Then, the actual exchange itself would be handled vNPCly by code, by each side taking their prisoner(s) to a specific room in their sphere and having them enter a command that marks them for the exchange. Another command allows each side to view the exchange as marked by the other side, and when it is satisfactory, a third command accepts the exchange. A couple of echoes later, the prisoners are transferred into separate waiting rooms for a limited time, and after say, two hours, they are transferred back to their original sphere to signify the vNPC travel time.

I think it's a neat idea. Gives an incentive for pvp to end without character deaths. Orcs need humans to do slave labor, and humans need orcs in order to trade to get their people back. And who knows what other RP could spawn if you've got slaves in town? As a game mechanic, it seems like a really neat idea.

My concern is that it's not in theme. Tolkien is black and white, and this idea seems like a shade of grey. This is an issue with the human side of the equation. Of course, the humans are not Dunedain, so maybe it's okay? Maybe they'd be okay suffering an orc to live if it means getting their people back.

I think that the only reason that we don't see humans partaking in prisoner exchanges in Tolkien is that the "humanoids" in question were basically super-heroes capable of rescuing their comrades outright.

We do see suggestions, several times, that orcs and evil men do make use of slaves.

Having played a soldier that was once captured by orcs and sold into slavery, I can say that I found the experience to be quite rewarding.

Heh, that's kind of a neat thing to consider. Apping a human into the orc sphere as a slave. You could make them broken and scarred until one day... you get ransomed back! A broken husk of a person suddenly given their freedom back into a perhaps alien society. All kinds of stories to be told...

I don't know how appealing slave races would be to most players, unless...

There were a gladiator clan in the orc sphere that could be apped into by either orcs or humans. This has been tried several times before, but I don't feel has ever been given its proper due.

The argument against it is spreading ourselves too thin, of course, to which I say -- what is better for a combat-oriented player than a doomed-to-die slave/gladiator role to fill in the blanks between two more fleshed out concepts? In terms of combat throwaways, you can really do no better. And the entertainment value for the rest of the sphere has the potential for high impact.

I dont feel that gladiator is the right way to go. It would turn into ALL slaves are going to be throw away gladiators even useful crafters for the most part. Gladiators and arena based stuff has never really been successful in rpis that I know of.

Last edited by Gobbo on Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gobbo wrote:I dont feel that gladiator is the right way to go. It would turn into ALL slaves are going to be throw away gladiators even useful crafters for the most part.

Don't necessarily disagree with this. It's hard to make an actual RPP human slave role appealing to many people without some kind of exciting hook, though, in my experience. I only say this, because I did try it when I ran Moria, and the bait was never really taken by the players.

That said, I don't think a role is necessary. There's enough PVP to support this just being in-game consequence only.

Songweaver wrote:That said, I don't think a role is necessary. There's enough PVP to support this just being in-game consequence only.

I might be curious to try a non-combat/craft human slave role in the orc sphere, but those PCs are rarely unlucky enough to get captured in-game. Even otherwise, if we have a working ransom system, I don't see in-game captives staying in place long enough to get as much story out of the experience as I'd like. (I'm a slow storyteller!)

MUD players almost always try and put their characters in positions with the least amount of NPC/staff/PC authority over them.

A good example is the orc division early in the game and freetown currently. Slave roles being the height of restrictions and being under authority are thus the least enticing roles to the average MUD player. That isn't to say that they can't be used effectively, it's just not something you should expect to ever be super popular.

I feel like the flavor of the orc sphere is so much more than all that, in terms of the "roles" available to you. There's a far different context, wherein being a "lowly" being to someone higher than you on the pecking order makes it feel more like a caste based society that can be as complicated or simplistic as you want it to be. Which makes it all the better because you could have a situation where a warband is something straight out of The Black Company or a complete tiki tribe. It could offer as much freedom or restriction as a serfdom or a band of mercenaries.

Orcs are as free as their sword arm can get them, rarely will anyone deny them the chance to put that to the test.

(Morgoth):I had a part in everything.Twice I destroyed the light and twice I failed.I left ruin behind me when I returned.But I also carried ruin with me.She, the mistress of her own lust.