The Boy Scouts of America have decided to stand by their policy of banning homosexuals from volunteering or being members of the organization. As a mother with two sons actively working toward Eagle Scout, I have mixed feelings about it.

My sons have asked me about men who love men and women who love women and so we’ve had plenty of discussions about it. My policy stands firm–what a person does in the privacy of their bedroom is their business. If I want the freedom to love and marry who I want, have a large family, homeschool, worship my religion freely–then that means I have to extend other people those very same freedoms.

It’s that simple.

But, I also feel that by deciding to maintain their position, the BSA are being true to themselves and what they believe in. The Boy Scouts, and all private organizations, have the constitutionally protected right under the First Amendment of freedom of association to set membership standards. Whether or not I agree with it, it’s their right to stand by their position.

Human rights watchdog groups, such as Human Rights Campaign, of course, have something to say about it. “They’ve chosen to teach division and intolerance.” their organization maintains. The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force said that BSA, “have turned their backs on a chance to demonstrate fairness, exercise sound judgment, and serve as a role model for valuing others.” My question is, why do they even want to be a part of an organization with different beliefs and restrictive membership requirements? Why demand that others change the way they are doing things to suit your beliefs?

Bottom line, if you don’t agree with an organization’s policy, then you have the freedom not to become involved with the organization. Find another one that fits your standards and beliefs. Find one that welcomes you and celebrates you for who you are. Or start your own.

My sons have learned so much by being in Boy Scouts. They’ve learned skills that I’m 100 percent positive they wouldn’t have learned otherwise. I’m proud of their achievements and hope they achieve their goal and earn Eagle Scout.

How do you feel about BSA’s stance? Do you respect their right to stand by their beliefs, even if you don’t agree with it?

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49 Responses to My sons are Boy Scouts and I’m glad

HeatherFsays:

July 18, 2012 at 8:14 am

I love your comment “why do they even want to be a part of an organization with different beliefs and restrictive membership requirements? Why demand that others change the way they are doing things to suit your beliefs?”!!!
Thats what I don’t get in todays society. If you don’t like it… you don’t have to do it! This is for EVERYTHING! Why do we push and try to force everyone to think the same way we do? We see that all the time here on Babycenter where one parent thinks their way of parenting is better then the other.
Why can’t we come to accept that everyone is different and has a different way of doing things.
Just because I think differently then someone doesn’t make me less of a person.
Great article Denise! And Congrats to your boys who are working twords Eagle Scout!! I’m a BSA counselor for Physical Fitness, Sports, and Athletics and I know how hard those boys have to work to get their Eagle!

HeatherFsays:

July 18, 2012 at 8:18 am

Oh, and I accept their stance. As a private organization they are allowed to make that stance.. no matter how many people disagree with it. To make that decision in the world we live in must have been a tough one for them. Then are entitled to their decision and no matter what I think of it they are allowed to make that choice.

Juliussays:

July 18, 2012 at 8:18 am

Thanks for this post, and congratulations for your Sons’ accomplishments. I have a friend that went through scouting to eagle scouts and it really is hard, and they will learn valuable skills.

Sarisays:

July 18, 2012 at 8:24 am

“My sons have learned so much by being in Boy Scouts. They’ve learned skills that I’m 100% positive they wouldn’t have learned otherwise. I’m proud of their achievements and hope they achieve their goal and earn Eagle Scout.”

THAT’S why you would “want to be a part of an organization with different beliefs and restrictive membership requirements?”

It seems cruel to have to make that decision, between wanting your son to have experiences he could not get otherwise, and to also try to protect that son from being taught intolerance from the organization that is also teaching him good things….

Kimsays:

July 18, 2012 at 8:29 am

I completely agree that, as a private organization, the BSA have the right to exclude anyone. And the Supreme Court agrees. However, it still makes me sad. I know my boys would benefit from being part of the boy scouts, but I just can’t let them join a group that would exclude our neighbors and parents of their friends. Any other similar organizations that are more inclusive?

Jamiesays:

July 18, 2012 at 8:32 am

The Nazi’s stayed true to their beliefs too.

Klgs24says:

July 18, 2012 at 8:36 am

So if they discriminated based on hair length and they kicked one of your boys out, that would be ok with you? You would just start your own organization? What about discriminating based on skin color, or mental health status? Both variables that are not choices, like homosexuality. You’re ok with that? As a private organization they have the right to limit their membership to whomever they want you know.

Katherine Martinsays:

July 18, 2012 at 8:52 am

Thanks for writing. I’m conflicted by the whole thing. My oldest got a lot of great things out of his first year of boy scouts. It’s hard to me to decide of those great things outweigh letting him be a part of an organization that discriminates. It makes me sad and upset to be put in the position and I truly don’t know the answer. My heart says to leave, but he wouldn’t understand that decision right now, he’s too young.

Klgs24, interestingly enough, the long hair issue has come up a few times. I am adamant though, we won’t cut it unless he wants too. He gets a lot of ribbing for it, too. Believe me, my family is WAY different than the majority of families I see that participate in scouts. Its a very conservative organization and it feels nice to shake them up a bit. If it ceased to be a benefit to my sons, I would most definitely remove them from the organization.

Juliussays:

July 18, 2012 at 9:03 am

He gets a lot of ribbing for it. As long as he isn’t hurt by it, it is probably helping him build his character to be a strong person that holds his beliefs, IMO

I want my son who is only 7 to grow his hair out because it is so think and grows so fast, I thought he could grow it out and donate to a cancer charity. I am not sure his would look as good as your son’s does though. It is moot point anyway, because my son is having none of it.

Lynn Msays:

July 18, 2012 at 9:03 am

I’m with Kim here, my son is 19months and where I would love for him to be in the BSA for all the reasons other commentors stated they still want their sons in it, this policy however gives me a major reason not too. Honestly it’s because when I enter him at 5-6 yrs of age how am I supposed to know at that time he could possibly come tomeat 15-16yrd old and say he’s gay? And he’s know a boy/eagle scout? What then happens? He gets kicked out? What are we then teaching our children? None of us can garauntee our children/grandchildren will be hetrosexual, for our childrens future we must put aside certain feelings and set a path of tolerance for our children to step on. So where I’m glad a private organization can stand up for their beliefs, I am sad for all the parents that continue to support them even thou they themselves don’t believe in. Especially when someone is being excluded for something tey have no control over, it’s like race, eye color..etc biological.

Mike Hippsays:

July 18, 2012 at 9:17 am

I agree with you, insomuch that a private organization has the right to discriminate.

However, the boy scouts of America is not a private organization. They have a charter that was issued by the United States congress and local chapters often meet in public facilities.

Both of these things means that they are discriminating with public money….. and that’s not alright.

Carolynsays:

July 18, 2012 at 10:03 am

I have to agree with Klgs24. My son is currently in cub scouts, but I’m very conflicted with him remaining in a group with such an idiotic and discriminatory policy. However, he really enjoys it, we like our pack, and he grows so much through it. But I don’t see a difference between discriminating against races and sexual preferences. And I can’t imagine anyone in this day and age saying it’s okay for the Boy Scouts to not allow Blacks and Hispanics to be in leadership positions.

Anonymoussays:

July 18, 2012 at 10:03 am

I’m not going to say a whole about this one way or the other but I would like to point out that my son has been in Scouts for 7 years and has never been told to tolerate or be intolerant of anyone different than him. The choice that the BSA made long ago and recently upheld has never trickled down to the boy’s level at least not in our troop. They do a very good job of teaching my boy to uphold the Scout Law with EVERYONE. He is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent to all in his life.

I feel the same. My son’s troupe focus on themselves, achieving their merit badges, not disrespecting each other, they learn how camp, they fundraise, they share a camaraderie. They’ve NEVER been told or taught to hate someone because of their sexual orientation. They’ve never been told or taught to be intolerant of anyone gay. They are too busy learning the scout skills, raising money for camp, planning, learning and having fun. That is what I what my kids to remember about Boy Scouts. Not question whether or not BSA discriminates against gays.

Kacysays:

July 18, 2012 at 10:03 am

Jamie, I am appalled that you compared a Private group that chose to stand by their beliefs, to a horrendus group that MURDERED millions of people. I honestly can’t believe it.

Karen Lsays:

July 18, 2012 at 10:48 am

I agree with Lynn M’s comment. Much to-do is being made about the orientation of the scout leaders, but as these boys head toward Eagle level and emerge into their own sexuality, what of those who are gay? What of straight boys who have two moms or two dads, are they to look down on their own family structure just to participate in Scouts? I do love the idea of a new org, even one that mixes boys and girls in challenging and educational outdoor activities, but wouldn’t know where to start.

Kimsays:

July 18, 2012 at 10:49 am

I love that my boys are in scouting and we will be doing it again this year.

Elizabeth Chavezsays:

July 18, 2012 at 10:58 am

I 100% agree! I have many friends who are gay and lesbians and I support them to no end. I am a Christian woman I don’t believe that god makes mistakes and I don’t believe that people choose to be gay i believe that’s the way god made them. THAT IS WHAT I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE. with that being said i also believe that a private organization has the right to follow their own beliefs. At some point somewhere in life you have to stand your ground. to me its unfair to ask people to give up what they believe with their whole heart. There are some Christians that don’t believe being gay is right that doesn’t make them close minded, or bigots, or gay bashers it makes them Christians. That makes them who they are. If they choose to follow the bible to the letter and they believe the word of God why does someone else have the right to come and ask them to change just because they don’t believe it?! To me that’s close minded! If a group doesn’t meet the needs and beliefs that you want for your family you have the right to find one that does or start your own! why does everyone have to give up what they believe to conform to another group. Just like i believe that people have the right to love and marry whoever they choose to i also believe people have the right to freedom of religion.

Amysays:

July 18, 2012 at 11:56 am

Great article! I agree 100%

Siobhansays:

July 18, 2012 at 12:12 pm

I completely disagree. I just thank God I have three girls.

Dawnsays:

July 18, 2012 at 12:47 pm

To the pp who asked about alternatives: have you checked out CampFire USA (http://www.campfireusa.org)? I have a son and daughter, and while I would LOVE for my dd to become involved in Girl Scouts, what about my son? I don’t really feel comfortable getting him involved in an organization that discriminates against a certain percentage of the population. Then I discovered CampFire USA, which is for boys AND girls. Now I’m thinking of sending my dd there too, if only for a more parsimonious solution to after-school activities. Note that neither are involved yet. I think(?) they start at third grade, which my dd is going into in the fall.

TJsays:

July 18, 2012 at 12:54 pm

The Nazis weren’t a private organization in a free country. That is a completely invalid comparison.

Denise, I completely agree with you in this article!! For those who disagree with the boy scounts, DON”T go! Just like I don’t have to attend a Catholic church, or a Unitarian church if I disagree with them.

TJsays:

July 18, 2012 at 1:01 pm

For those of you who are attending scouts even though you disagree – WHY are you supporting an organization that you disagree with?

Janesays:

July 18, 2012 at 1:02 pm

How would you feel if they excluded black people? There is no difference. And to all the people who justify their bigotry by calling themselves Christians, please stop, you are not and give Jesus a bad name. Christ never said a word condemning homosexuality. That idiocy is only in the old testament. You know, where people sacrifice their babies to God… It is not enough to stick to your beliefs to be praised in my book, you have to have beliefs that are moral for that to count.

LCsays:

July 18, 2012 at 1:22 pm

People always back up and accept freedom to discriminate when they are not the ones being discriminated against…

Kimsays:

July 18, 2012 at 1:39 pm

I absolutely agree that as a private organization, BSA has every right to discriminate in any way that that’d like, however I think that they are doing the good aspects of the BSA a great disservice choosing such bigotry to be stated policy. I also think that none of the very important life skills that they teach matter as much as treating everyone with the same basic human decency. Until the BSA are inclusive of all, I will choose not to allow my son to participate.

Laurasays:

July 18, 2012 at 2:07 pm

*25 LC – what you said.

I guess what I think about is the boy who is already in the Scouts and who is struggling with his sexuality — and now the Boy Scouts is rejecting him and telling him the way that he is is wrong? I think that would be very harmful to a young person.

My son is only two, while I can see the many benefits of participating in Boy Scouts, I will not encourage him to do so if they continue to be discriminatory.

Katiesays:

July 18, 2012 at 2:37 pm

How can you people stand by this? I find this article and many of the comments disturbing and reprehensible. You are teaching your children that it is okay to support and belong to an organization that is bigoted, as long as you benefit from the organization. You are showing your children that it is okay for their gay classmates to be excluded. If this is part of “build[ing] character”, as the boy scouts claim to do, then go for it- but watch out… maybe one of your children or their friends will come out, and then you’ll have to shamefully withdraw them from scouting and tell them, in your words, to “Find another [activity] that fits your standards and beliefs”

Hi, Denise I feel exactly like you. I agree with you. I also think our children will not get the skills otherwise.

Dan S.says:

July 18, 2012 at 3:54 pm

Just bouncing off some of the earlier comments, imagine writing or reading a post like this:

‘The Boy Scouts of America have decided to stand by their policy of banning [African Amercans] from volunteering or being members of the organization. As a mother with two sons actively working toward Eagle Scout, I have mixed feelings about it…

…But, I also feel that by deciding to maintain their position, the BSA are being true to themselves and what they believe in. The Boy Scouts, and all private organizations, have the constitutionally protected right under the First Amendment of freedom of association to set membership standards. Whether or not I agree with it, it’s their right to stand by their position.

[Civil] rights watchdog groups, such as the [NAACP], of course, have something to say about it. “They’ve chosen to teach division and intolerance.” their organization maintains. The [Southern Poverty Law Center] said that BSA, “have turned their backs on a chance to demonstrate fairness, exercise sound judgment, and serve as a role model for valuing others.” My question is, why do they even want to be a part of an organization with different beliefs and restrictive membership requirements? Why demand that others change the way they are doing things to suit your beliefs?’

Would you come away perhaps feeling regretful and conflicted but ultimately in agreement with the post, or would you feel that – regardless of the BSA’s *legal* right to discriminate – such a stance is nevertheless so *morally* wrong as to demand reform, preclude participation or support for the organization, etc.?

Also: “Human rights watchdog groups, such as Human Rights Campaign, of course, have something to say about it…. My question is, why do they even want to be a part of an organization with different beliefs and restrictive membership requirements” – Who is the “they” in that last sentence? Presumably not *too* many members of the HRC or the NGLTF want to be Boy Scouts (although some may be interested in volunteering or leadership roles). In that case, the question ends up being, in part: why would gay kids want to join the Boy Scouts? As someone who spent a few years as a member of Troop 240 in the Bronx, I continue to hope for a world where we don’t even have to ask that question.

J walkersays:

July 18, 2012 at 4:17 pm

Jane, yes the bible does say that it is an abomination to God in the old and new testament. And the sacrificing of children u mentioned was what people did for their false god baal. Not God.

J walkersays:

July 18, 2012 at 4:24 pm

In my entire life as a Christian I have always always been judged for what I believe, and that’s no different on baby center. It’s the “Oh oh its ok, as long as you agree with me” attitude. Well those who think this is discrimination then put your kids in something that is fitting to you and stop complaining.

Kaylasays:

July 18, 2012 at 4:36 pm

Very well put! I definitely agree!

HappyHippiesays:

July 18, 2012 at 5:35 pm

It takes a lot for a boy to become an Eagle Scout – it is a huge accomplishment for any young man. But what confuses me is that for an organization that bases so much of their teaching on morality and character, wouldn’t that be much more meaningful if backed up by positive action rather than discrimination? If the Scouts are so wonderful for straight boys, shouldn’t Scouts also be a wonderful for gay boys as well? I guess that’s what is so confusing to me. This conversation should not be about rights, but about what is right. I have every right to be a total jerk and to be mean and horrible to everyone I meet. But is that the right thing to do? The Scouts have the right to exclude some boys who do not conform to their ideals, be they gay, agnostic, atheist…but is that the right thing to do? Does this teach tolerance or acceptance?

This is all about money. The Mormon Church is the largest donor to the BSA and said they would pull their funding if they did not stand against homosexuals. It has nothing to do with morals, or anything else. Just money.

Jennasays:

July 18, 2012 at 6:28 pm

We have a horrible habit in this country of not only expecting other people to be tolerant of every choice we make, but to bring it into our lives as well. It shows through in situations like these. You know, as long as the Boy Scouts are not actively attacking the homosexual community or seeking out people to bully, I just don’t see what they are doing is wrong. Everyone in this country has the right to join or not join, accept or not accept whatever they choose. If an organization doesn’t share my same ideals, I just don’t join. There are bazillions of opportunities elsewhere, find one that suits you. That’s the brilliance of freedom in our country.

juliussays:

July 18, 2012 at 7:21 pm

Jenna your point is so well made, I want to steal it and put on my facebook page :). YOu said whet I think about it without any of the harshness that comes through in my posts.

This is an instance when I am glad that I live in Canada. This policy of Scouts is limited to the US – fortunately, I do not have to make a decision between my moral code and my children participating in scouts. I feel for those who do.

I’m not a fan of the BSA’s intolerance of homosexuality; I prefer the inclusiveness of the Girl Scouts. That said, I also think that they are well within their rights as a private organization to do whatever they want as long as it breaks no laws.

If I had boys they’d join some other group, because I do not care for the BSA’s exclusivity. But I think it’s a free speech issue, and as long as there aren’t a bunch of little boys in Scout uniforms yelling, “die faggot” as they sell their popcorn, that’s just fine with me.

YEs! Thank you for writing this! I have three boys, the oldest of which is in Cub Scouts and we LOVE it. I hope all my boys become Eagles. Thank you for summing up how I feel on this issue and being a sane and rational voice among all the hub bub.

Susansays:

July 19, 2012 at 11:57 am

And if they didn’t allow men of color to lead a group? You’d be fine with that?

They need to come out and say why. Because this perpetuates the lies of the religious right that a gay man is more likely to hurt their child than a straight man. Or that a gay man will “turn” their child gay – which there is no evidence for.

What will it take – the first gay scout to commit suicide?

Shansays:

July 19, 2012 at 2:37 pm

I agree as a private organization they can choose who they accept. I’m choosing to NEVER have my son involved with them unless they change their policies regarding homosexuals. I would never be a part of a group that discriminates against any of our family or friends on the basis of color, religion or sexual orientation.

Patriciasays:

July 19, 2012 at 4:44 pm

It seems like a simple resolution to say “if you don’t like it don’t joint it”, but it is not as simple. As a person of color, a woman or an individual with a disability the kind of discrimination against the gay community is and should be recognized as a similar discrimination. What if people of color, women, the disabled listened to the old adage of “if you don’t like them don’t join them” policies throughout history? We would be one hell of a segregated oppressed society. It doesn’t matter if it is a private or public organization. Discrimination of any sort is unacceptable. History has shown & affirmed that private organization such as country clubs, private colleges, private sector companies are not allowed to discriminate. Why should the Boys Scouts be any different?

Right on to the individuals who continue the fight against the Boys Scouts. It’s about paving the way for the future generations.
People of all kinds didn’t just get there by starting their own things or joining things that only accepted them, the true inspirations of the past fought to break down the barriers.

Joysays:

July 20, 2012 at 6:32 pm

I thought your post was well written. Not all groups have to accept everyone. I don’t understand why we are forced to accept certain lifestyles and it is not okay to disagree. Why can’t they accept our rules? Why do we need to be forced to accept every lifestyle? I think the Boy Scouts need to stand their ground the the other groups can deal with it. Is there a staight support group anywhere or would that be wrong too?

You said exactly what I feel! My sons are Boy Scouts and my oldest is working on his Eagle Scout project – we have gays in our family and it’s up to us to teach them our own beliefs. Thank you for this Denise!

ladeucesays:

July 22, 2012 at 3:08 pm

The fact that people are praising this ridiculous article with such enthusiasm just shows how people continue to not understand discrimination. It’s the basic equivalent of saying, “I’m not homophobic, just do NOT put that in my face!” in reference to public displays of affection between two men or two women. Ok? So it’s acceptable as long as you don’t have to see it? So gays are ok as long as they don’t dare participate in hetero rituals, like PDAs? Basically, this article is spouting the same ridiculous ignorance as this, and using an almost childlike argument we’ve ALL heard before – “well if you don’t like it, TOO BAD! You can’t join my group!” Call it whatever you want, but discrimination is discrimination is discrimination. And the fact that you get on your high horse and sit there and say,

“why do they even want to be a part of an organization with different beliefs and restrictive membership requirements? Why demand that others change the way they are doing things to suit your beliefs?”
first of all, do you even remember that we are dealing with CHILDREN? children want to do things their friends are into! Don’t be fooled, many gay men assert that they knew at a very young age that they had homosexual tendencies or feelings, and hid them due to shame and embarrassment and fear. So a child may have these feelings and hid them even more due to the Boy Scout’s discrimination. A parent is supposed to tell a child that he cannot go into Boy Scouts even though all of his friends are in the group? And every parent who is gay is supposed to just go out and create their own national organization? Do YOU have the TIME, MEANS AND MONEY to do that, Denise? Hmm.. so gay families and their sons should have a separate group… sounds ALOT like segregation to me!
So shame on you, Denise, and for all the other people who have cheered for this ignorance masked as a pathetic attempt at upholding “freedom.” Freedom for whom, indeed.

Donnawsays:

July 25, 2012 at 7:05 am

The Boy Scouts are also a non-denominational religious group (you must profess a belief in God), and their official policies are designed to not alienate major religions (Catholics, LDS, etc.) Boy Scout troops are frequently sponsored by and meet in churches and various religious facilities. A change in this policy would fundamentally change the structure of the organization. I don’t really see a way for this policy to change, unless the Scouts excise religion from their core.

Kellysays:

August 7, 2012 at 3:33 pm

Do you honestly think boys won’t notice or care if their leader is kissing another man or if a boy who wants to touch other boys shares their tent? How about a Cub Scout pack leader who lives openly as a lesbian? Is this a good example for young boys in an organization expressly created to give them a manly start in life? How does a woman who rejects being married to a husband and father and instead gives a boy “two moms” claim to be a suitable person to teach the value of manhood? If you answer, “She can’t,” you’re a hate-filled bigot.

Margaret Firdsays:

October 7, 2012 at 4:54 am

You don’t have to be yelling ” die faggot” to be hurtful and bullying. Just quietly and systematicallyv exclude those who are ” not our kind” and you will have achieved the same thing. Aren’t you doing that when you tell a boy to find a group that “agrees with him”? Gay Scouts are there for the same reason straight ones are and this whole policy is setting up institutional, condoned, articulated discrimination against young men who just happen to be born gay. So sad and it has turned me against an organization that has meant so much to 3 generations of my family.

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