mariej wrote:Looking throughout history, I would say that religion has caused more evil than good and the world may have been a better place without it. I don't think the absence of religion would change human nature, but it sure has its share in fueling the fire.

I disagree....the pursuit of power, in the name of religion, has caused more evil than good.....

Save America, IMPEACH OBAMA! And continue tossing out the deadbeat Democrats that are currently in office.

mariej wrote:Looking throughout history, I would say that religion has caused more evil than good and the world may have been a better place without it. I don't think the absence of religion would change human nature, but it sure has its share in fueling the fire.

I disagree....the pursuit of power, in the name of religion, has caused more evil than good.....

Well thats the point, what could have been a rational peaceful belief was turned into an irrational scare tactic for profit and people follow it to this day.

mariej wrote:Looking throughout history, I would say that religion has caused more evil than good and the world may have been a better place without it. I don't think the absence of religion would change human nature, but it sure has its share in fueling the fire.

I disagree....the pursuit of power, in the name of religion, has caused more evil than good.....

Well thats the point, what could have been a rational peaceful belief was turned into an irrational scare tactic for profit and people follow it to this day.

It has been bastardized by a few, and then all religions have been lumped by the ignorant as bad for society. As much as Frank, and Ninja want to deny it, religion has done a world of great things and continues to this day, but, like in politics you have those that will take advantage of a few, and harm the image of the many.

Save America, IMPEACH OBAMA! And continue tossing out the deadbeat Democrats that are currently in office.

mariej wrote:Looking throughout history, I would say that religion has caused more evil than good and the world may have been a better place without it. I don't think the absence of religion would change human nature, but it sure has its share in fueling the fire.

I disagree....the pursuit of power, in the name of religion, has caused more evil than good.....

"In the name of" is a cheap attempt at an out. It's not "in the name of" religion, it's "fueled and called for by religion." Kill the infidel and seeing non-conformers as evil is the root cause. Religious texts that call for the slaughtering of people and towns only makes it seem OK and justifiable to the average person throughout history, who was basically illiterate. Nice text-based system. Wow, God must have been short on news-spreading ideas. Anyway, when the organized religion sanctioned brutality, slavery, etc. it is of course predictably going to be seen and integrated as a green light in activities for dominance over other infidels, infidel cities, infidel Nations, Kings, etc. Welcome to the dividends of archaic standards and practices - even if indirectly condoning, it's enough.

You apparently feel stuck defending iron age BS, which is a shameful waste of ability.

mariej wrote:Looking throughout history, I would say that religion has caused more evil than good and the world may have been a better place without it. I don't think the absence of religion would change human nature, but it sure has its share in fueling the fire.

I disagree....the pursuit of power, in the name of religion, has caused more evil than good.....

Well thats the point, what could have been a rational peaceful belief was turned into an irrational scare tactic for profit and people follow it to this day.

It has been bastardized by a few, and then all religions have been lumped by the ignorant as bad for society. As much as Frank, and Ninja want to deny it, religion has done a world of great things and continues to this day, but, like in politics you have those that will take advantage of a few, and harm the image of the many.

Good things could be done without the religious BS, so don't give religion credit when the credit goes to people. If organized religion disappeared tomorrow it would help assure a more modern, sane, and peaceful future in general on Earth. It would be the single biggest explosion of progress ever.

And it has not just been "bastardized by a few" - that is your ignorant and wishful thinking. Countless leaders, tyrants, churches, priests, etc. used it to kill, torture, and help oppress. Countless loads over the centuries have held back and punished attempts at progress and freedom. The block to freedom and equality alone blows your statement out of the water. It is bastardized and used for negative things every day all over the world.

Seeing the nature of archaic text, this was very predictable and no surprise at all. That is just another reason it's ridiculous for any modern person with indoor plumbing to assert that it is from God. God would have known the centuries of slavery and oppression organized religion was custom suited to fuel. God would have known that countless bases of power and people were going to take the calls for killing non-believers and buying children slaves, and a list of other horrible standards, as the opposite of help for freedom and peace.

If you wanted to cause a ton of problems in the world you would create organized religion with text and put some death and stoning in there along with slavery rules and dogma about punishment and needing to be saved, sporting exclusive correctness about God's details. Knowing the obvious basic nature of humans to follow cults like needy children, you have a guarantee of mayhem and oppression for a long, long, time.

Sorry Frank....even though you are giving one hell of an argument, religion is not the cause of all the evils in the world. I still stand by the statement that more people have been helped by religion, than harmed....

A recent example would be Haiti..Countless churches and religious organizations helped with aid and food....you have to look very hard to see any atheist organizations that did anything....Richard Dawkins, and that's pretty much it.

Save America, IMPEACH OBAMA! And continue tossing out the deadbeat Democrats that are currently in office.

Mill, you keep putting words in my mouth. I didn't say religion is the cause of all evils in the world. Please read more carefully. Also, it's not the religion that is helping people in Haiti, it's people. The same people could do the same help without the superstitious dogma behind it. Furthermore, you are likely not fully taking into account the harm to progress and freedom organized religion has fueled and been responsible for, and still is. The physical violence and direct oppression by being in bed with tyrants is bad enough, but the harder to measure items are really the kicker.

All the Nations I'd prefer to live in, like America, are the ones that have taken extraordinary efforts to separate organized religion from Government. The Founders spoke of its terrible harm and danger to freedom and people, entire societies, over time. I agree with them and their priority to take unprecedented steps to leash the beast.

Tyranny over mind and body has had some benefits, but like all tyranny and ignorance, it has terrible costs. It's the 21st century. Let's all stop pretending people's fantasies about invisible super daddy and how their cult or group has it right is something other than emotional retardation and insipid servitude that works against progress and peace.

Hammer some nails to help build houses without having to hand out your cult pamphlets afterward. I respect all the people who help out in disasters that do not have a religious cause or word-spreading agenda behind it. The millions of people who help others just because they want to help others instead of doing it because they think some cult they've joined wants them to are the ones kids should look up to. Not the ones that come from Institutions that cover up child rape on a widespread scale and spread ignorance like birth control being worse than preventing aids. I'd like the ones hammering nails in Haiti to not be idiots telling Haitians they should not use birth control and have protection because God doesn't like condoms and there is punishment awaiting for them if they are not "saved" properly. That kind if moronic thinking is part of the problem with organized religion. If the Church had its way, all the science responsible for leading up to this internet for the last two thousand years would have been prevented. We know this because they tried. They were OK with slavery, though. They owned some slaves.

Today I was talking to an old Vet and asked him what he thought of the "no God theory" he looked at me and said "Man,there aint no atheists in foxholes" So it got me thinking that even if there is no God he can sure brighten up peoples days sometimes. And that is better than nothing.