topic Re: Is This Where You Are At? in Ag Forumhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113825#M34454
<P>If you folks had listened to the speech. &nbsp;He said that we have to get out and vote in order to take these sobs out. &nbsp;There was NO call for violence such as you putting a crosshair on Obama. &nbsp;That left little doubt in my mind what you were trying to do.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:41:49 GMTschnurrbart2011-09-06T15:41:49ZThe peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113443#M34349
<P>Well Mr. Kraft, here is your answer as to when the arab type spring comes to America. Gabby Giffords must be sooooooo proud.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>"President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. Let's take these son of bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong," Hoffa added.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><A target="_blank" href="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/05/jimmy_hoffa_at_obama_event_on_gop_lets_take_these_son_of_bitches_out.html">http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/05/jimmy_hoffa_at_obama_event_on_gop_lets_take_these_son_of_bitches_out.html</A></P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 17:54:53 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113443#M34349r30202011-09-05T17:54:53ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113445#M34350
<P>Looks like we need to call them the union taliban.</P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 17:56:17 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113445#M34350r30202011-09-05T17:56:17ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113453#M34351
<P>I agree with Hoffa. It's about time the people stood up to the corporatists and their lackeys.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>They have declared war on labor both union and private. It's time to fight back.</P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 18:38:15 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113453#M34351kraft-t2011-09-05T18:38:15ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113481#M34357
<P>No one has declared war on the labor unions. The tax payers have demanded different management negotiator contracts with the public sector employees. Ojimmy Bin Hoffa and the union taliban&nbsp;are the ones that have declared war on the American tax payer and has called on his members to take out the tea party.</P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 19:07:53 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113481#M34357r30202011-09-05T19:07:53ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113485#M34358
<P><EM>Unions have a place...just not in public government. And employers should always have the right to hire non-union workers, too.</EM></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><EM>If unions bring value to the table, their members will be rewarded. If they only bring threats of violence and mischief, they should be treated like common criminals.</EM></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><EM>Felt the same way towards the NFO when they were up to their illegal activities, such as shooting at bulk milk truck drivers during the milk strike.</EM></P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 19:26:02 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113485#M34358Red Steele2011-09-05T19:26:02ZRe: need more concrete bootieshttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113487#M34359
<P>like the last hoffa is wearing--hoffa and his union thugs dont know they already lost the war and now he just wants to rip off americans for more money to buy obamoite votes--it is high time the unions realize they priced themselves out of jobs and their union brethren are in pens all across america for stealing the members money---wonder why he omitted that part of his war</P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 19:27:13 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113487#M34359ollie26552011-09-05T19:27:13ZRe: i agree 100%https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113489#M34360
<P>no union worker is making money for his employers that is the reason jobs are going over seas --it is just union people are too dumb to see it</P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 19:28:56 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113489#M34360ollie26552011-09-05T19:28:56ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113495#M34363
Where does anyone see a call for violence, taliban like or just good old fashioned church bombing or doctor shooting like in what hoffa said. It's a metaphorical call to action. To political battle, as it were. Nothing more or less. And a welcome one at that in front of the president who more and more by the day has morphed into bush the 3rd. I doubt that he took any heed in it at all and would be quite confident that the corporatist lackeys who make up his staff and advisory team got the word quickly to hoffa that they'd have no more of that sort of populist s++t.Mon, 05 Sep 2011 19:47:46 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113495#M34363bruce MN2011-09-05T19:47:46ZRe: Is This Where You Are At?https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113501#M34366
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="142"></LI-USER> wrote:<BR />Where does anyone see a call for violence, taliban like or just good old fashioned church bombing or doctor shooting like in what hoffa said. It's a metaphorical call to action. To political battle, as it were. Nothing more or less. And a welcome one at that in front of the president who more and more by the day has morphed into bush the 3rd. I doubt that he took any heed in it at all and would be quite confident that the corporatist lackeys who make up his staff and advisory team got the word quickly to hoffa that they'd have no more of that sort of populist s++t.<HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P><P><STRONG><FONT size="4">Not everybody is on same page</FONT></STRONG></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Let me begin with the obvious: the left (organized and unorganized) has seldom been of one mind. Differences over aims, strategy, tactics, programmatic demands, forms of struggle, etc. have been commonplace.</P><P>This moment is no different. In fact, I would argue that two distinct and competing trends have taken shape in the course of the first year of the Obama presidency.</P><P>One trend stakes out a left position on every issue, resists compromise, believes that the Democratic Party has no democratic/reform potential, pays little attention to right-wing extremism in its strategic and tactical thinking, and reduces President Obama to nothing but a puppet of Wall Street.</P><P>This trend turns criticism of the Obama administration into a measure of one's militancy. The sharper the tone the more legitimate one's left credentials. The main, if not the only, thing holding up far-reaching political and economic reforms, in the eyes of this trend, is the president. Somehow, in this rendition of the political moment, the interaction and struggle between (and within) competing political coalitions/blocs composed of various class and social groupings has no or minimal bearing on the process of change since the 2008 elections. In short, the class struggle in all its complexity is both simplified and invisible.</P><P>This same trend "damns with faint praise" the new currents, thinking and initiatives in labor and people's organizations, while it narrowly defines political independence as only electoral formations outside the two-party system. It acts as if militant minorities and moral outrage can reshape the political landscape alone, forgetting that popular majorities in the end make history.</P><P>Finally, this trend places an outsize accent on left initiative and unity, but detached from broader forms of unity and struggle.</P><P>The other trend on the left argues that the 2008 elections reset the political terrain to the advantage of working people and their allies.</P><P>While the Obama administration is not above criticism, this trend believes that criticism should be constructive and unifying, not a test of one's radicalism.</P><P>The main role of the left, according to this trend, isn't simply agitational - talking points, sound bites and militant slogans. Political agitation has an important place in class and democratic struggles, but<SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN><EM>only to the degree that the left is involved in day-to-day struggles in a sustained, practical and non-sectarian way</EM>.</P><P>In 2008, a broad people's movement was instrumental in electing Obama and a Democratic majority in Congress. Since then, however, it hasn't reached the same level and scale of activity. Without reassembling this coalition, progress will be largely unrealized.</P><P>This trend embraces left demands, but it embraces broader demands as well that masses of people are ready to fight for. It doesn't counterpose one against the other. Instead, it sees broader mass demands as a highway that has to be traveled to win more progressive and radical changes.</P><P>In a similar vein, compromise isn't a dirty word in this view. Instead, whether and when one makes compromises depends on a very sober estimate of the balance of class and social forces.</P><P>This trend understands as well that its task is not only to unite a broad multi-class coalition in the current phase of struggle, but also to assist the working class and its core allies to impress their unmistakable stamp on the struggle for reforms.</P><P>Unlike the other trend that shoehorns Obama into a tightly sealed political shell with little or no political potential, this trend believes he has a role, a potentially major one, to play at this juncture of the class struggle.</P><P>By the same token, it strongly rejects the notion that the task of the left is to reconfigure the struggle into a contest of the people's movement against President Obama.</P><P>This trend supports left unity, but insists that practical involvement with broader movements and coalitions and some rough agreement on strategic orientation among left groups are a necessary condition for such unity.</P><P>Finally, an independent, labor-based people's party is a strategic necessity in the view of this trend, but it doesn't see such a formation on the short horizon. In the meantime, it supports struggles for political independence (which take many forms) both within and outside of the Democratic Party.</P><P>No individual, organization or social movement on the left fits neatly into one or the other trend outlined above. Life is always more complicated than broad generalizations. Nevertheless, these two trends are taking more definitive form and the future of the left and its place in U.S. politics, in my opinion, hinges on which trend becomes dominant. I think it is obvious where I stand.</P><P>&nbsp;<A target="_blank" href="http://peoplesworld.org/not-everybody-is-on-same-page">http://peoplesworld.org/not-everybody-is-on-same-page</A></P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 20:23:11 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113501#M34366Milligan Hay - Iowa d:^)2011-09-05T20:23:11ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113509#M34367
<P><EM>Felt the same way towards the NFO when they were up to their illegal activities, such as shooting at bulk milk truck drivers during the milk strike.</EM></P><P><FONT size="3">Hey, pal. I was a part of that movement, and what you have discribed was a damned lie. Unless you have proof of illegal activities, I suggest you appologize. Nothing like that happened in anything I was a part of. The NFO saved a lot of farmers from the auction block, they did a lot more good than harm. </FONT></P><P><FONT size="3"><EM>﻿</EM></FONT></P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 21:06:32 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113509#M34367GreaTOne_652011-09-05T21:06:32ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113515#M34368
<P><FONT size="3">OMG! Now that the left has stood up and let it be known they were not going to sit back and take the right's busillt lightly, now we are getting worried! All the big talk about,"taking back our government", "going to be armed and dangerous". Suddenly, doesn't sound so good does it? You people have talked smack for so long, you didn't believe the left had guts/balls enough to fight back? Think again, you want your revolution? Becareful what you wish for!!</FONT></P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 21:18:05 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113515#M34368GreaTOne_652011-09-05T21:18:05ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113517#M34369
<P>The NFO use call for holding actions on hogs. You can only hold a hog for so long until you practical had to give them to the packers because they were too big. There were goons standing around the stock yards that would dump sand in the crank case of your truck if you left it unattended to pick up your check.</P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 21:19:09 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113517#M34369r30202011-09-05T21:19:09ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113519#M34370
<P><FONT size="3">There were goons?? You **bleep** fool, they were your neighbors and friends, maybe even your relatives, trying to save our way of life. It didn't happen in our part of the country, nothing untoward was ever mentioned or even talked about. From your discussion, I can assume you were one of those <A target="_blank" href="mailto:smart-a@@'es">smart-a@@'es</A> the used the holding actions to line your pockets? You were a coward then, and your still a coward.</FONT></P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 21:31:56 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113519#M34370GreaTOne_652011-09-05T21:31:56ZRe: i agree 100%https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113521#M34371
<P><FONT size="3">You poor dumbass, were it not for Unions, there would be no middle class American's, and that my poor idiot, includes YOU! </FONT></P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 21:34:59 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113521#M34371GreaTOne_652011-09-05T21:34:59ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113525#M34373
<P>No GTO, those goons called for the holding action about a month&nbsp;before their hogs were ready. Then we were all suppose to hold ours so the price went up for them. We were to take $2-3 dock while they got top price. Unions were thugs then and are thugs now.</P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 22:01:23 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113525#M34373r30202011-09-05T22:01:23ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113535#M34377
<P>Hi Dale. There are very likely noneof these 30 and 40 something silver spooners who were born or out of diapers back when holding actions were called for. I was very young and I'm 62.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It's just more handed down to them stuff of legend from old curmudgeon right wingers...along with spat upon soldiers and Reaganomics helping tgh elittle guy.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And for sure, it's incredible how much just one statement from someone on the mildly progressive side out in the open, as Mr. hoffa made, can bring terror to these people...get Craig to dust off the CPUSA...in a heart beat. And of course, all of the old "common knowledge", "everybody knows" around the cracker barrell dung.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>There is a fairly good chance that the world is going to face real economic upheaval over these next couple of weeks. I seriously doubt that the general run of the citizens of teh developed nations are going to be looking for thier governmental and instituional leaders to take them back to some mythical version of an every body had it really, really good 1950s via some magical fiat. A recommendation for that is all that has come forth from this recently energized right that has, most tragicly of all, taken over one of the 2 major political parties in our country.<BR />&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 22:27:25 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113535#M34377bruce MN2011-09-05T22:27:25ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113539#M34379
<P>Yes Bruce, I was also very young. I wasn't allowed to ride along to the market because there might be trouble. It was before the small buying stations such as Heinold's. This was at the Indianapolis and Cincinnati stock yards. Simply AMAZING how you leftys who were so bent out of shape at the tea party when there was no violence support Ojimmy Bin Hoffa when he calls for violence against tea party members.</P>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 22:48:00 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113539#M34379r30202011-09-05T22:48:00ZRe: The Winds Of Changehttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113551#M34384
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="142"></LI-USER> wrote:<BR /><P>Hi Dale. There are very likely noneof these 30 and 40 something silver spooners who were born or out of diapers back when holding actions were called for. I was very young and I'm 62.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It's just more handed down to them stuff of legend from old curmudgeon right wingers...along with spat upon soldiers and Reaganomics helping tgh elittle guy.&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And for sure, it's incredible how much just one statement from someone on the mildly progressive side out in the open, as Mr. hoffa made, can bring terror to these people...get Craig to dust off the CPUSA...in a heart beat. And of course, all of the old "common knowledge", "everybody knows" around the cracker barrell dung.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>There is a fairly good chance that the world is going to face real economic upheaval over these next couple of weeks. I seriously doubt that the general run of the citizens of teh developed nations are going to be looking for thier governmental and instituional leaders to take them back to some mythical version of an every body had it really, really good 1950s via some magical fiat. A recommendation for that is all that has come forth from this recently energized right that has, most tragicly of all, taken over one of the 2 major political parties in our country.<BR />&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#003300" size="3">They way that I am seeing it...&nbsp; and keep in mind, I was born very late in 1958, Is that the folks on the left, who came of age in the 1960's distrusted government and "the establishment" to the n'th degree.&nbsp;&nbsp; And now, since they have had their chance to mold it into their vision of "utopia" cannot live without huge government involvement in their lives.... almost to the point that it is as&nbsp;important as oxygen is to life.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color="#003300" size="3">&nbsp;</FONT></P><P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color="#003300" size="3">Now, the Tea Party that distrusts large and intrusive government in everyone's business and the Left sees them as <U><STRONG>so</STRONG></U> dangerous to their existence, that they <U><STRONG>must</STRONG></U> be destroyed before they become so powerful, that their hold onto huge government goes away forever.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color="#003300" size="3">&nbsp;</FONT></P><P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color="#003300" size="3">Just keep in mind, you can not have your control forever.&nbsp; Human beings only live for so long.&nbsp; Sooner, or later, the "Sixties Flower Power" group are going to wilt and fade.&nbsp;&nbsp; Their "seed" is not always going to follow their desires.&nbsp;&nbsp; At that Palin Rally in Indianola on Saturday, even though it rained like Cats and Dogs in the morning, the crowd was a majority of people who were a LOT younger than me..... which made me <U><STRONG>so happy</STRONG></U> that I about jumped for joy.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color="#003300" size="3">&nbsp;</FONT></P><P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color="#003300" size="3">(Lots of them were chattering about the "cool yard art" up on the hill... and never seen anything like that before.... and how they were going to do something like that back home at their Tea Party rallies)&nbsp; I just smiled.&nbsp; Palin's crew on the bus must have loved it as they went to the other side of the bus and snapped pics all over the place.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color="#003300" size="3">&nbsp;</FONT></P><P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color="#003300" size="3">I wish the weather would have been better, but hey, it's Iowa, and the weather can change faster than the winds of politics does.</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 00:06:45 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113551#M34384Milligan Hay - Iowa d:^)2011-09-06T00:06:45ZRe: now back it uphttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113559#M34387
<P>oh so not great one how did unions create middle class america --and pleae quit your childish rants --grow up little man and act like an adult --ooops i forgot you are an obamoite</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 00:17:42 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113559#M34387ollie26552011-09-06T00:17:42ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113573#M34392
<P><FONT size="3">You sir, are out of your stinking mind. It just so happens you don't know sh!t! Those goons as you so freely call them, were better people than you. You know why? Because, unlike you they cared about their farms, their farming way of life, and their neighbors. I haven't read the sacred cow, Milligan's response yet, I can only guess, but I do know what ever it is, it will only be trying to humiliate, and embarrass me, because I have called him on his lack of honesty and integrity. The same kind of people we ran into, trying to organize them into an organization, that could have a voice to insure their farm, and their way of life. They were belligerent, and obnoxious, just like you are now.</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 00:39:52 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113573#M34392GreaTOne_652011-09-06T00:39:52ZRe: now back it uphttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113579#M34394
<P><FONT size="3">There is no one in the United States that doesn't know that! Oh! I'm sorry, you wouldn't know sh!t, because you have a mouth full of it.</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 00:46:36 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113579#M34394GreaTOne_652011-09-06T00:46:36ZRe: now back it uphttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113583#M34395
<P><FONT size="3">Don't ask me why I've done this, but you need to be put in your place, oily. This is from Wiki.answers</FONT></P><DIV class="article"><DIV class="dsContent"><DIV>How did labor unions create the middle class?<DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><SPAN>Improve</SPAN></DIV><DIV class="categories"><SPAN>In:</SPAN><SPAN><A target="_blank" href="http://wiki.answers.com/Q/FAQ/2062-158">US History</A>, <A target="_blank" href="http://wiki.answers.com/Q/FAQ/2136-18">Labor and Employment Law</A>, <A target="_blank" href="http://wiki.answers.com/Q/FAQ/3989-1">Labor Unions</A></SPAN> [<A target="_blank" href="#">Edit categories</A>]</DIV></DIV></DIV><!-- google_ad_section_end --><DIV class="hide">&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV><DIV><DIV class="gglAds AFC_ads"><DIV class="ggladsBorderTop">&nbsp;</DIV><TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD><A target="_blank" href="http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=L&amp;ai=BYG0lEm5lTpDoEYyJgALP5jnT8NnlAvuVr-AcwI23AfDQSBABGAEg_qq_BigFOABQq4G22AJgyfa1iZCk6A-yARB3aWtpLmFuc3dlcnMuY29tyAEB2gFGaHR0cDovL3dpa2kuYW5zd2Vycy5jb20vUS9Ib3dfZGlkX2xhYm9yX3VuaW9uc19jcmVhdGVfdGhlX21pZGRsZV9jbGFzc8gC68XuKKgDAegD4QjoA7ED6AOIBPUDAAQAAA&amp;num=1&amp;sig=AOD64_0FCP_mlMquK3krOzgdMFGI2FJ1LA&amp;client=ca-gurunet_wikianswers_js&amp;adurl=http://track.searchignite.com/si/cm/tracking/clickredirect.aspx%3Fsicontent%3D1%26sicreative%3D7624729299%26sitrackingid%3D210732055">U.S. Census&nbsp; Records</A> <A target="_blank" href="http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=L&amp;ai=BYG0lEm5lTpDoEYyJgALP5jnT8NnlAvuVr-AcwI23AfDQSBABGAEg_qq_BigFOABQq4G22AJgyfa1iZCk6A-yARB3aWtpLmFuc3dlcnMuY29tyAEB2gFGaHR0cDovL3dpa2kuYW5zd2Vycy5jb20vUS9Ib3dfZGlkX2xhYm9yX3VuaW9uc19jcmVhdGVfdGhlX21pZGRsZV9jbGFzc8gC68XuKKgDAegD4QjoA7ED6AOIBPUDAAQAAA&amp;num=1&amp;sig=AOD64_0FCP_mlMquK3krOzgdMFGI2FJ1LA&amp;client=ca-gurunet_wikianswers_js&amp;adurl=http://track.searchignite.com/si/cm/tracking/clickredirect.aspx%3Fsicontent%3D1%26sicreative%3D7624729299%26sitrackingid%3D210732055">www.ancestry.com</A></TD></TR><TR><TD><SPAN>Search the U.S. Census Collection</SPAN> <SPAN>1790-1930. 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Instead of living short brutal lives in&nbsp; dangerous factories for little pay and little to no time off, millions of people&nbsp; were able to enjoy things like weekends and vacations, purchase homes, and enjoy&nbsp; something known as <A rel="nofollow" href="#" target="_blank"><SPAN style="color: darkgreen; font-size: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-color: inherit;">retirement</SPAN></A>.&nbsp; It was the labor unions that WON these things, they were not GIVEN by government&nbsp; or business. As a side note, the mostly moderate and non violent approach of the&nbsp; labor movement became an alternative that thwarted the spread of Communism in&nbsp; the Western world. Desperate and oppressed people turn to radical ideologies&nbsp; like communism and fascism. Labor unions allowed a different&nbsp; way.</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><P><FONT size="3">Read more: <A href="http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_labor_unions_create_the_middle_class#ixzz1X84HvQCe" target="_blank">http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_labor_unions_create_the_middle_class#ixzz1X84HvQCe</A>﻿</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 00:55:06 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113583#M34395GreaTOne_652011-09-06T00:55:06ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113597#M34400
<P>No I'm not GTO. We had 3 things to sell, hogs, cattle, and eggs. Hogs was by far the biggest portion of our income. A $2-3 dollar cut made a huge difference in our income. We had bills to pay and needed the money. Those goons were not our neighbors or friends, they were goons out for their own interest, they were looking out for themselves. They were more than willing to sacrifice us for their gain. A sad, sad chapter in the history of the American farmer.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 01:16:42 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113597#M34400r30202011-09-06T01:16:42ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113601#M34402
<P>1981 Ronald Reagan fired the first shot in the war against union labor and the republicans have been waging a war against labor ever since. It's totally disgusting theway business and their right wing lackies have opposed any and everything thast would improve the lot of working folks.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>You always claim that america honors work but they would rather keep labor oppressed and working for cheap. They don't want good wages and ahigher standard of living. They would rather have labor working for nothing to benefit business that does not support this government or its people. They don't want to pay taxes and neither do stockholders.&nbsp; I'm talking about the tax code where we treat capital gains favorably compared to the rates that labor pays.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 01:18:01 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113601#M34402kraft-t2011-09-06T01:18:01ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113603#M34403
<P>And you want to import cheap drugs from Canada. How is it you think you can destroy American business and think there can be good paying American jobs.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 01:22:29 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113603#M34403r30202011-09-06T01:22:29ZRe: The Winds Of Changehttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113611#M34405
<P>I agree with more of your 1st pp than you'd likely think. A big mass of people who thought they represnted progress by believing iin and supporting the "proper' things and "issues" (God I hate that term). But however distanced themselves from the working and producing and personall sustainability segment of soc iety and felt that they were supporting it through their liberal concerns. Thye've been as damaging to the overall culture as the ribald, decadant corpoatist types have been. In fact have stood back in their Birkenstock shoes and in their Volvos and smug greeness and let the Gordon Geckos (fictional) and real banksters fill their pensions, many of them public, with cowshiite.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>A class that isn't all that respectable, but no more implicite in the bubbles and float and thin air than are those who were recibpients of crony capitalism.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It's all been about extraction by those who were holding the dentist's calipers. My view is that the worst of society, which would be NETHER the good honest people who are falling for the bagger schpeil or the unwitting everyday person who thought they were doing the right thing is immune from the no Novacane procedure is working night and day to set up a getaway. They don't care....don't owe you or the dedicated school teacher jack s##t. &nbsp;They are fixin' to run off with the bank and you and somebody you don't believe for a minute that you can relate to or have anything in common with are going to be left standing side by side, asking each other "WTF just happened?.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 01:41:58 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113611#M34405bruce MN2011-09-06T01:41:58ZRe: Yup....All the Bubbles Are Poppin'https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113623#M34407
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="142"></LI-USER> wrote:<BR /><P>I agree with more of your 1st pp than you'd likely think. A big mass of people who thought they represented progress by believing iin and supporting the "proper' things and "issues" (God I hate that term). But however distanced themselves from the working and producing and personal sustainability segment of soc iety and felt that they were supporting it through their liberal concerns. Thye've been as damaging to the overall culture as the ribald, decadant corporatist types have been. In fact have stood back in their Birkenstock shoes and in their Volvos and smug greeness and let the Gordon Geckos (fictional) and real banksters fill their pensions, many of them public, with cowshiite.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>A class that isn't all that respectable, but no more implicite in the bubbles and float and thin air than are those who were recipients of crony capitalism.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It's all been about extraction by those who were holding the dentist's calipers. My view is that the worst of society, which would be NETHER the good honest people who are falling for the bagger schpeil or the unwitting everyday person who thought they were doing the right thing is immune from the no Novacane procedure is working night and day to set up a getaway. They don't care....don't owe you or the dedicated school teacher jack s##t. &nbsp;They are fixin' to run off with the bank and you and somebody you don't believe for a minute that you can relate to or have anything in common with are going to be left standing side by side, asking each other "WTF just happened?.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#003300" size="3">It is like the saying..... "In God we trust, all others pay cash, or better.... gold or have something to trade."</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#003300" size="3">&nbsp;</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#003300" size="3">It is coming down to the wire, real soon. &nbsp;Anyone who is depending on anyone or any...anything, other than themselves, are going to get a lesson that they will never forget.... if they survive.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#003300" size="3">&nbsp;</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#003300" size="3">Only the survivalists are prepared for what may happen. &nbsp;Soil and sky are the only dependable commodities that you can depend on. &nbsp; I do wonder where those scoundrels, both left and right are planning to run to. &nbsp;Money is worthless if the entire world is after your hide. &nbsp; Perhaps they are planning to build a base on the Moon to hide out in.</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 01:58:27 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113623#M34407Milligan Hay - Iowa d:^)2011-09-06T01:58:27ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113629#M34409
<P>I can just see your Grandpa "B" and bachelor Uncle 70 and Daddy 720 telling you about those NFO hobgobblin communist inspired &nbsp;snipers they'd heard about down at the feed mill who were going to take pot shots at good humble Christian &nbsp;pig farmers trying to deliver their lard a$$ed Farmers Hybrid mongrels to the buying station or auction barn.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Local papers used to cover every sensationalistic story that came along. Run down to yours and find us the coverage on that pile of cowshiite. Scan it and link it up for us. I'll expect that the best you'll be able to find is a robo generated Farm Bureau form letter to the editor.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I was there, nimrod. In the business. You are spewing canned , disingenuis, fabricated, drummed up old school winger Cold War John Birch&nbsp;garbage.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:06:27 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113629#M34409bruce MN2011-09-06T02:06:27ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113637#M34411
<P>No I'm not Bruce and you know it. You, like Bin Hoffa, have nothing left but name calling.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:15:17 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113637#M34411r30202011-09-06T02:15:17ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113639#M34412
<P>Oh and BTW, my grandpa died before I was born. And the uncle that use to ride to the market with my dad, and my dad to market with him, is not a bachelor and has 9 kids.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:17:35 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113639#M34412r30202011-09-06T02:17:35ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113643#M34413
<P>'Get back to us with that news clip. Maybe &nbsp;a police report? The cops responed to everything back in the 60s and 70s. They were lookin' out for "decent folks". 'specially were you hail from.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:22:20 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113643#M34413bruce MN2011-09-06T02:22:20ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113645#M34414
<P>We don't need the old stuff Bruce. Bin Hoffa and the union taliban are about to make those look like the good ol days.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:25:28 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113645#M34414r30202011-09-06T02:25:28ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113647#M34415
<P>You are so full of ingrained shiite. &nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>There were hog buying stations way back into the 50s. People of your perpetual mistrusting ilk didn't trust them because they didn't beleive in quality evaluation of your definitively generic at best product and things such as Grade and Yield. You didn't go to heinhold until they became what then was left of "the market, &nbsp;upon which it became Mecca. Sacrosanct. Like Goldman-Sachs, Genral Dynamics and Haliburton. I &nbsp;have no idea of which multi-national ate up Heinhold? Did you track it? &nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>How long since you've had hogs? Wouldn't coincide with the Farm Bills of the '80s would it? Still selling eggs?</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:42:04 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113647#M34415bruce MN2011-09-06T02:42:04ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113649#M34416
<P>We still have hogs Bruce. We started selling to Heinolds some time in the mid 60s. My dad said they would be the ruination of the hog farmer because there wasn't anyone there to bid on the hogs. However hauling them all 60+ miles to Indianapolis or Cincinnati became too time consuming, even with the top deck in the truck.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Tyson.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Eggs, no.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:47:04 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113649#M34416r30202011-09-06T02:47:04ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113653#M34417
<P><FONT size="3">You don't know what your talking about, pal. The Republicans have and are waging a war on the working people of this country! Wake up!</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:49:56 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113653#M34417GreaTOne_652011-09-06T02:49:56ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113655#M34418
<P>More Hoffas and you might still be raising hogs and selling eggs to people who had the money to buy them and not be sitting there tonight terrified over whether or not the Euro debt crisis and the mortgage fraud situation here are going to skyrocket your per acre production costs up to $700@, &nbsp;Or over wheher your kids if you have any and nephews and nieces are ever going to have jobs that will afford them to own a house. much less a farm.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:50:01 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113655#M34418bruce MN2011-09-06T02:50:01ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113657#M34419
<P>I'm more worried about the national debt they have hanging around their necks and an over oppressive government that says that it is not enough.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:57:14 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113657#M34419r30202011-09-06T02:57:14ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113659#M34420
<P>Tyson? Your hogs or theirs? &nbsp; I wasn't aware that they were still "in the market".&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>If you are feeding hogs for Tyson I'd seriously hope, as a friend, that you aren't one of those pathetic souls who is custom feeding and posing yourself in the local community as a "pork producer".</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:56:03 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113659#M34420bruce MN2011-09-06T02:56:03ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113661#M34421
<P>We are not feeding hogs for Tyson, they bought out the old Heinold hog markets. Well sell our own hogs to Tyson.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:58:51 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113661#M34421r30202011-09-06T02:58:51ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113663#M34422
<P>You'ld be considerably better served by being concerned aboout who acually put it there.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 02:59:00 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113663#M34422bruce MN2011-09-06T02:59:00ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113665#M34423
<P>I'm concerned with who is going to change it. It's not Obama.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 03:00:55 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113665#M34423r30202011-09-06T03:00:55ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113667#M34424
<P><FONT size="3">You my man, aren't thinking with your head, your letting your fascist corporate party lead you to your OWN ruin! </FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 03:01:41 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113667#M34424GreaTOne_652011-09-06T03:01:41ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113673#M34425
<P><FONT size="3">Well, now I know why you call yourself 3020.</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 03:09:43 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113673#M34425GreaTOne_652011-09-06T03:09:43ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113675#M34426
<P>I'm thankful to hear that. You are among &nbsp;a rare and diminishing breed. Do you breed and farrow them on your own? &nbsp;Not much of that left. &nbsp;Most of the people we work with who say that they have "their own pigs" are sow co-op members who let low wagers do the heavy lifting and take delivery of ready to feed object pigs.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 03:09:47 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113675#M34426bruce MN2011-09-06T03:09:47ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113679#M34428
<P>&nbsp;FIW'. I don't think so either.Might be interesting what his 2nd term might bring. Especially with an expanded regionally driven GOP houose majority. But &nbsp;he's not likely to lose to what your gang has offered up so far.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Conditions on the ground mighy more determine that course of action and policy. &nbsp;As for now, we are being driven by oppositional dogma. All sorts of it. All kinds of right wing urban legends and spoiled anecdotes are being drudged up.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 03:24:50 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113679#M34428bruce MN2011-09-06T03:24:50ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113681#M34429
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="142"></LI-USER> wrote:<BR /><P>&nbsp;FIW'. I don't think so either.Might be interesting what his 2nd term might bring. Especially with an expanded regionally driven GOP house majority. But &nbsp;he's not likely to lose to what your gang has offered up so far.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Conditions on the ground mighty more determine that course of action and policy. &nbsp;As for now, we are being driven by oppositional dogma. All sorts of it. All kinds of right wing urban legends and spoiled anecdotes are being drudged up.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#003300" size="3">I am fine with leaving obama to face the "music" as long as we can achieve a veto-proof Senate and Congress. &nbsp;He will then be powerless and that will let us groom a powerhouse replacement for 2016. &nbsp;Jimmy Carter will be able to breathe a sigh of relief that he will be replaced as the worst President of the United States, and folks will be talking about those Dark Days under the obama regime for probably over a hundred years.....if we survive.</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 03:37:28 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113681#M34429Milligan Hay - Iowa d:^)2011-09-06T03:37:28ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113685#M34431
<P>wake up ------ great words. &nbsp;American labor????? &nbsp;really. &nbsp;Ask a union member to show up 10 minutes early ----they will cry and sue.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>there is no labor in the "working people of this country". &nbsp; Just threatening whiners.... The self employed &nbsp;and aliens do most of the work in this country. &nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>But mostly little work is done here. &nbsp;Most goods are produced somewhere else thanks to organized labor and regulation. &nbsp;And of course Mr. Clintons free trade initiatives----like NAFTA.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 03:56:36 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113685#M34431sw3635352011-09-06T03:56:36ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113691#M34432
<P>Both of u are waisting a nice holiday.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It is undeniable that policies advocated by NFO members and leaders were a prime reason the organization did not gain strong support nationally from the demographic &nbsp;it was intending to help. &nbsp;----I was there also.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>And it is a huge stretch to think that new homespun moralistic pop group---The Tea Party-- is going to make big changes when we are @ 30 ft from the bottom of the waterfall economically. &nbsp;When such a large part of the voters are dependent on public payroll or public assistance there is little chance of reviving the "american independent spirit". That will happen only on complete collapse. &nbsp; The best we can hope for is the fools in washington allow a segment of the midwest to withdraw from the union,---as long as we are taxable we have little chance of that.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>While the left hasn't seen any moral high ground since they accepted &nbsp;the "end justifies the means" formula back in our 60's mental fog, &nbsp;the new moral right obviously will fall for the "looks good on camera/ good fundraiser" formula for public service qualifications and therefore render itself as effective at social change as NFO was.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>We are headed for a time when 9% unemployment will be the good old days, and we can not expect to get our jobs back when our biggest lenders benefit from our lack of productivity. &nbsp;We sold out to the "free trade", "one world economy" years ago when we had much to loose and little to gain. &nbsp;We lost jobs, manufacturing, and respect worldwide.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Consider the possibility that entitlements and other public assistance are necessary to maintain peace and prevent anarchy. &nbsp;And federal Corporate handouts and tax incentives are all that keeps any major business and banking entities in this country.</P><P>Assuming these realities, &nbsp;what difference does it make who you elect or if they have an R , a D or a cute TP after their name?</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 05:14:27 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113691#M34432sw3635352011-09-06T05:14:27ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113717#M34437
<P>Yes Bruce, totally independent. Was at a couple thousand head/year. Had some breeding problems. Depopulated on one farm with plans to get back in. Might wait a little longer with the price of corn.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:49:35 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113717#M34437r30202011-09-06T10:49:35ZRe: guess you missed the pointhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113737#M34440
<P>the labor unions have deatroyed the middle class by being poor at production and great at raising prices --if they have created the middle class WHY are all the middle class jobs going over seas--bet this locks your starter and try and not curse it makes you look so stupid burt makes your family proud to show your total lack of iq ---but it does show your handle not so great</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 11:53:03 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113737#M34440ollie26552011-09-06T11:53:03ZRe: guess you missed the pointhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113745#M34441
<P><FONT size="3">Hey Ollie and GTO, I agree with both of you.&nbsp; The unions got greedy and pushed things too far, to unsustainable limits actually.&nbsp; When each GM workers check has to support 3 retirees, that Ponzi pyramid scheme couldn`t continue.&nbsp; Then on the otherhand workers need protection or if they get beaten down to substandard levels, they will turn to communism or blame the "Jews" and turn nazi.&nbsp; The reason factories went overseas was pure greed, if the yellow or brown man works for pennies a day, there is absolutely NO way that a first world country can compete with that, no matter how productive they are.&nbsp; Products coming into this country should be tariffed to level the playing field, if companies are going to be that ruthless.</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:25:02 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113745#M34441BA Deere2011-09-06T12:25:02ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113751#M34442
<P><EM>Pretty depressing post there, and probably mostly true, too.</EM></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><EM>Makes you wonder somedays about why you even get out of bed and work so hard....our goose seems to be cooked and there seems to be no way out of the current mess short of a collapse and restart. And that does not happen peacefully, nor does it end well if we copy the German model.</EM></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P><EM>I really cannot understand the mindset of any liberal today...how could you possibly look at the world the way it is and think that more government entitlements are going to accomplish anything, when the government is already bankrupt? </EM></P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:31:34 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113751#M34442Red Steele2011-09-06T12:31:34ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113773#M34444
<P><FONT size="3">A GOPher majority in both houses?? HAHAHA!! Man, your back to smokin' alfalfa again I see! Disapproval of Congress is 82%, and the Republicants are leading the way with 2%. After the campaigns start, and the voters are reminded everyday of how they have had only one objective, (beating the President) and NOT doing what they were voted to do in '10 (jobs and economy) they are toast. The war on American workers wages will also contribute to their doom, so have your fun, it's going to be a miserable 40 years.</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:06:15 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113773#M34444GreaTOne_652011-09-06T13:06:15ZRe: a big problemhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113783#M34445
<P>is a union workers pay usually exceeds his prodution ability --that is where the real greed lies--many union members have bragged to me about how little they have to work--on the other hand other colors of people have a good work ethic and the companies see this--nobody ever gets beat down if they dont like the job or pay QUIT--but then that would take backbone which most of the brethren dont have</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:37:50 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113783#M34445ollie26552011-09-06T13:37:50ZRe: guess you missed the pointhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113793#M34447
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="136"></LI-USER> wrote:<BR /><P><FONT size="3">Hey Ollie and GTO, I agree with both of you.&nbsp; The unions got greedy and pushed things too far, to unsustainable limits actually.&nbsp; When each GM workers check has to support 3 retirees, that Ponzi pyramid scheme couldn`t continue.&nbsp; Then on the otherhand workers need protection or if they get beaten down to substandard levels, they will turn to communism or blame the "Jews" and turn nazi.&nbsp; The reason factories went overseas was pure greed, if the yellow or brown man works for pennies a day, there is absolutely NO way that a first world country can compete with that, no matter how productive they are.&nbsp; Products coming into this country should be tariffed to level the playing field, if companies are going to be that ruthless.</FONT></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">BA I think you areoverstating the pension problem with your comment.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">Think there was a news item recently about GM topping up the pension 'fund' to help out the liability it has. NOTE it is a fund that pays the GM pensioners, all the money does not come out of GM earnings. I expect the GM pension fund suffered the same problem as many funds, when the market turned down the investments were not worth as much so there is a future liability.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">I think the news item also said GM would have it fully funded again in less than 2 years. I therefore assume it is a defined benefit plan which GM has to make up the difference when the accountants are off on their projections.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">&nbsp;</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">As for tariffs there are 2 sides to a tariff. Here is an article about the ramifications of a tariff and you might study what happened in the GREAT DEPRESSION regarding tariffs.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">﻿<BR /></FONT></P><DIV><DIV class="clear"><DIV><DIV><FONT color="#008000">Except in all but the rarest of instances, tariffs hurt the country that imposes them, as their costs outweigh their benefits. Tariffs are a boon to domestic producers who now face reduced competition in their home market. The reduced competition causes prices to rise. The sales of domestic producers should also rise, all else being equal. The increased production and price causes domestic producers to hire more workers which causes consumer spending to rise. The tariffs also increase government revenues that can be used to the benefit of the economy.</FONT><P><FONT color="#008000">There are costs to tariffs, however. Now the price of the good with the tariff has increased, the consumer is forced to either buy less of this good or less of some other good. The price increase can be thought of as a reduction in consumer income. Since consumers are purchasing less, domestic producers in other industries are selling less, causing a decline in the economy.</FONT></P><P><FONT color="#008000">Generally the benefit caused by the increased domestic production in the tariff protected industry plus the increased government revenues does not offset the losses the increased prices cause consumers and the costs of imposing and collecting the tariff. We haven't even considered the possibility that other countries might put tariffs on our goods in retaliation, which we know would be costly to us. Even if they do not, the tariff is still costly to the economy. In my article&nbsp;<A href="http://economics.about.com/cs/taxpolicy/a/taxing_growth.htm" target="_blank"><FONT color="#008000">The Effect of Taxes on Economic Growth</FONT></A>&nbsp;we saw that increased taxes cause consumers to alter their behavior which in turn causes the economy to be less efficient. Adam Smith's&nbsp;<EM>The Wealth of Nations</EM>&nbsp;showed how international trade increases the wealth of an economy. Any mechanism designed to slow international trade will have the effect of reducing economic growth. For these reasons economic theory teaches us that tariffs will be harmful to the country imposing them.</FONT></P><P><A href="http://economics.about.com/cs/taxpolicy/a/tariffs_2.htm" target="_blank">http://economics.about.com/cs/taxpolicy/a/tariffs_2.htm</A>﻿</P><P>&nbsp;</P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:38:49 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113793#M34447Canuck_22011-09-06T14:38:49ZRe: a big problemhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113801#M34448
<P>Union workers are only getting compensation that the companies agreed to. If they are overpaid in wages or benefits, then the responsibility lies with those that signed the contract.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>As far as you are concerned, it is none of your damned business what the terms are of negotiated agreements. It's just not your concern.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:50:18 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113801#M34448kraft-t2011-09-06T14:50:18ZRe: The peace loving left.https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113811#M34450
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="79"></LI-USER> wrote:<BR /><P>Yes Bruce, totally independent. Was at a couple thousand head/year. Had some breeding problems. Depopulated on one farm with plans to get back in. Might wait a little longer with the price of corn.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">Breeding problems?</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">Not PRRS I hope.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">Just hearing there are problems in Ontario with a new strain that has really devastated production where it hit. Mortality of sows was even quite high.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">In feed mill driven 'loops', so people just feeding pigs for a fee have empty barns as the supplier has no pigs to put in them.</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:17:56 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113811#M34450Canuck_22011-09-06T15:17:56ZRe: Is This Where You Are At?https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113825#M34454
<P>If you folks had listened to the speech. &nbsp;He said that we have to get out and vote in order to take these sobs out. &nbsp;There was NO call for violence such as you putting a crosshair on Obama. &nbsp;That left little doubt in my mind what you were trying to do.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:41:49 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113825#M34454schnurrbart2011-09-06T15:41:49ZRe: guess you missed the pointhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113829#M34455
<P><FONT size="3">Hey Canuck, this "legacy costs" were there are too many pensioners to the amount of workers are doomed to fail, that`s exactly what`s going on with the Post Office today.&nbsp; Free trade is one of my hot buttons. See on your farm you can`t continue to spend more than you take in, that`s what`s happened for probably 30 yrs with the US trade deficit, since we started worshipping at the alter of free trade. Tariffs are the only way to level the playing field, unless you want your citizens drug down to the 3rd world level.&nbsp; During the Great Depression it was a totally different ball game than today.&nbsp; Back then 1/3 of the people were farmers, it wasn`t cost effective to pack up a steel mill or packing plant and move it overseas, so while there were tariffs on raw materials coming in, it didn`t totally destroy our manufacturing base like today.&nbsp; I mean just look, are we supposed to just survive on stocking Walmart shelves and flipping burgers? It seems to me rather than run monthly trade deficts<A target="_blank" href="http://www.usdebtclock.org/">http://www.usdebtclock.org/</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; of $400 billion/month we`d be better off doing nothing, instead of digging the hole deeper.</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:44:35 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113829#M34455BA Deere2011-09-06T15:44:35ZRe: a big problemhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113833#M34456
<P><FONT size="3">Hey Ollie, the Chinese&nbsp;factory workers get $3/hr the US fact worker $22/hr&nbsp; &nbsp;<A target="_blank" href="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2078121,00.html">http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2078121,00.html</A>&nbsp; plus China has less safety and envro rules (not all of which are a bad thing, common sense should prevail)&nbsp;&nbsp; It isn`t even close, a company that only eyes the bottomline will move that the drop of a hat and companies that don`t, will go broke. &nbsp;Ollie, I don`t think we would want to see&nbsp;a United States that emulates China where the workers make $3/hr and if a machine flies apart, a worker loses a eye it`s "tough cookies.... Next!".&nbsp; The real kicker of the Time magazine story link is that China is no longer the cheapest workers...at $3/hr?...Uff-Daa.</FONT></P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:56:52 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113833#M34456BA Deere2011-09-06T15:56:52ZRe: a big problemhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113837#M34457
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="33"></LI-USER> wrote:<BR /><P>Union workers are only getting compensation that the companies agreed to. If they are overpaid in wages or benefits, then the responsibility lies with those that signed the contract.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>As far as you are concerned, it is none of your damned business what the terms are of negotiated agreements. It's just not your concern.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Once a company files for bankruptcy those contracts are worthless. Ask the car owners holding the warranties.</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:57:56 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113837#M34457r30202011-09-06T15:57:56ZRe: Is This Where You Are At?https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113895#M34471
<P>Re: Is This Where You Are <STRIKE>At</STRIKE>?﻿ &nbsp;No, I'm behind the "at". &nbsp;Don't you know you don't end a sentence with a preposition?</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 18:29:04 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113895#M34471schnurrbart2011-09-06T18:29:04ZRe: Is This Where You Are At?https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113897#M34472
<P>Where are you at......jack a s s?</P>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 18:31:59 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/113897#M34472r30202011-09-06T18:31:59ZRe: guess you missed the pointhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114029#M34511
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="136"></LI-USER> wrote:<BR /><P><FONT size="3">Hey Canuck, this "legacy costs" were there are too many pensioners to the amount of workers are doomed to fail, that`s exactly what`s going on with the Post Office today.&nbsp; Free trade is one of my hot buttons. See on your farm you can`t continue to spend more than you take in, that`s what`s happened for probably 30 yrs with the US trade deficit, since we started worshipping at the alter of free trade. Tariffs are the only way to level the playing field, unless you want your citizens drug down to the 3rd world level.&nbsp; During the Great Depression it was a totally different ball game than today.&nbsp; Back then 1/3 of the people were farmers, it wasn`t cost effective to pack up a steel mill or packing plant and move it overseas, so while there were tariffs on raw materials coming in, it didn`t totally destroy our manufacturing base like today.&nbsp; I mean just look, are we supposed to just survive on stocking Walmart shelves and flipping burgers? It seems to me rather than run monthly trade deficts<A target="_blank" href="http://www.usdebtclock.org/">http://www.usdebtclock.org/</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; of $400 billion/month we`d be better off doing nothing, instead of digging the hole deeper.</FONT></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">Believe me BA pensions are not simple payouts from existing funds.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">Money is set aside as the worker is employed and actuaries crunch numbers all the time to anticipate the amount needed to pay all future requiremnets.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">the big problem with 'under funded' plans has to do with investments not increasing in value as anticipated.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">Now some employers, and many government employers are in this category, provide 'defined benefit' pension packages which guarantee the pension payment at a certain rate/amount. So when the markets do not provide enough funding for the plan the employer has to make up the difference, not the whole amount of the pension payout.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">That is why most plans now are 'Defined Contribution' plans, where the employee and the employer make their regular payments into the 'plan' but it is each individuals plan so when the markets do not do well that individual has to do with less payout. No requirement for the employer to make up the difference.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">If you read through the link I provided it sets out how tariffs actually hurt the overall economy. It also costs out what it costs your overall economy to save a job with a tariff.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">Examples like $42,000 for each textile industry job and in the steel industry saving 10,000 jobs cost your economy $400,000 per job, that's right for each job and yet you want to cut people with no income off welfare while you pay up to $420,000 to save each job in TV manufacturing so they can make how much per year and those costs are annual costs.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">See there is your argument for keeping farm subsidies, you don't get as much as others do.&nbsp;</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">The Great Depression was made worse and longer by tariffs enacted by lots of countries, each adding tariffs to counter others tariffs. Actions that brought many countries economies to their knees and sparked majour wars and destruction.</FONT></P>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 02:05:49 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114029#M34511Canuck_22011-09-07T02:05:49ZRe: Is This Where You Are At?https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114033#M34512
<P>Now you've done gone and hurt my feelings, p r i c k!</P>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 02:07:26 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114033#M34512schnurrbart2011-09-07T02:07:26ZRe: Is This Where You Are At?https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114051#M34520
<P>Bart, I couldn't help it. It reminded me of a story I heard one time about Lou Pinnela&nbsp;while I was listening to a Reds game while he was manager. It was told through what a catcher had once said.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>It seems Lou was at bat. The pitcher threw an obvious ball but the ump called it a strike. Lou stepped back from the plate, looked at the ump, and ask, "Where do you think that pitch was at." The ump replied, "Here we are in front of 50,000 people and you just ended a sentence with a preposition." Lou looked down at the ground for a moment, look back at the ump and said, "Where do you think that pitch was at jack a s s.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>When I saw your comment earlier I just couldn't help myself.</P>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 02:30:27 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114051#M34520r30202011-09-07T02:30:27ZRe: guess you missed the pointhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114103#M34529
<P><FONT size="3">Canuck, of course you guys like free trade, Canada were from 1976 to 2009 running trade SURPLUSES <A target="_blank" href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2009/02/11/tradedeficit.html">http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2009/02/11/tradedeficit.html</A>&nbsp; See that`s what the US needs, a trade negotiator that screws everyone we deal with&nbsp; <img id="smileywink" class="emoticon emoticon-smileywink" src="https://agriculture.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.png" alt="Smiley Wink" title="Smiley Wink" />&nbsp; Except if you must had gotten rid of him, if you have a couple yrs of deficts now.&nbsp;&nbsp; Tariffs do not cost money, here`s a partically real life example.&nbsp; Let`s say I own a company that makes filters in Lake Mills, Iowa <img id="smileyhappy" class="emoticon emoticon-smileyhappy" src="https://agriculture.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.png" alt="Smiley Happy" title="Smiley Happy" /> I sell fiters for $6, costing me $3 to produce($1 in factory/materials.&nbsp; $2 per filter in labor)&nbsp;.&nbsp; The 400 workers make $20/hr, pay taxes, Gods in his Heaven and all is right with the world, right?&nbsp;&nbsp; Then I move to Mexico, workers get paid $5/hr, I get to dump waste in the river, if a&nbsp;Mexican worker cuts his finger off&nbsp;that`s his problem.&nbsp; Look what happens, my labor cost goes from $2 per filter&nbsp;down to 50¢ per filter, I sure the hell ain`t gonna lower my filter cost, that extra $1.50 goes right in my back pocket.&nbsp;&nbsp; Who benefits?&nbsp; Well, my wallet is fatter, that`s for sure.&nbsp; The 400 ex-workers&nbsp;back home?&nbsp; Not that anyone gives a damned about them, but they scramble to find&nbsp;a below a living wage job and go on food stamps.&nbsp; Those 400 ex-filter workers go from having a job where they had paid taxes to&nbsp;now working lower paying jobs that don`t make enough that they have to tax Fed income taxes.&nbsp;&nbsp;So let`s recap, I went from making $3 per filter to now making $4.50 per filter, I`m happy as a lark.&nbsp; Down in Mexico, 400 Mexicans have&nbsp;$5 jobs as opposed to picking sh!t with the chickens, they`re happy, hell Mexicans are always happy.&nbsp; Who are the losers? Obviously the US government...400 less taxpaying citzens and of course those 400 poor souls that went from&nbsp;$20/hr down to $8/hr stocking shelves at Wally-Mart.&nbsp; The solution?&nbsp; Slap a M.Fin` tariff of&nbsp;at least $1.50 on EACH filter entering&nbsp;the United States.&nbsp; The only one that would cost is me, the owner of that mythical filter company.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></P>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:08:59 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114103#M34529BA Deere2011-09-07T11:08:59ZRe: guess you missed the pointhttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114135#M34535
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="136"></LI-USER> wrote:<BR /><P><FONT size="3">Canuck, of course you guys like free trade, Canada were from 1976 to 2009 running trade SURPLUSES <A target="_blank" href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2009/02/11/tradedeficit.html">http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2009/02/11/tradedeficit.html</A>&nbsp; See that`s what the US needs, a trade negotiator that screws everyone we deal with&nbsp; <img id="smileywink" class="emoticon emoticon-smileywink" src="https://agriculture.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.png" alt="Smiley Wink" title="Smiley Wink" />&nbsp; Except if you must had gotten rid of him, if you have a couple yrs of deficts now.&nbsp;&nbsp; Tariffs do not cost money, here`s a partically real life example.&nbsp; Let`s say I own a company that makes filters in Lake Mills, Iowa <img id="smileyhappy" class="emoticon emoticon-smileyhappy" src="https://agriculture.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.png" alt="Smiley Happy" title="Smiley Happy" /> I sell fiters for $6, costing me $3 to produce($1 in factory/materials.&nbsp; $2 per filter in labor)&nbsp;.&nbsp; The 400 workers make $20/hr, pay taxes, Gods in his Heaven and all is right with the world, right?&nbsp;&nbsp; Then I move to Mexico, workers get paid $5/hr, I get to dump waste in the river, if a&nbsp;Mexican worker cuts his finger off&nbsp;that`s his problem.&nbsp; Look what happens, my labor cost goes from $2 per filter&nbsp;down to 50¢ per filter, I sure the hell ain`t gonna lower my filter cost, that extra $1.50 goes right in my back pocket.&nbsp;&nbsp; Who benefits?&nbsp; Well, my wallet is fatter, that`s for sure.&nbsp; The 400 ex-workers&nbsp;back home?&nbsp; Not that anyone gives a damned about them, but they scramble to find&nbsp;a below a living wage job and go on food stamps.&nbsp; Those 400 ex-filter workers go from having a job where they had paid taxes to&nbsp;now working lower paying jobs that don`t make enough that they have to tax Fed income taxes.&nbsp;&nbsp;So let`s recap, I went from making $3 per filter to now making $4.50 per filter, I`m happy as a lark.&nbsp; Down in Mexico, 400 Mexicans have&nbsp;$5 jobs as opposed to picking sh!t with the chickens, they`re happy, hell Mexicans are always happy.&nbsp; Who are the losers? Obviously the US government...400 less taxpaying citzens and of course those 400 poor souls that went from&nbsp;$20/hr down to $8/hr stocking shelves at Wally-Mart.&nbsp; The solution?&nbsp; Slap a M.Fin` tariff of&nbsp;at least $1.50 on EACH filter entering&nbsp;the United States.&nbsp; The only one that would cost is me, the owner of that mythical filter company.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">A couple of assumptions in your 'example' that do not hold up.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">You claim Canada won in free trade and you claim labour is cheaper in Mexico because no health care for the worker with cut off finger. So why is Canada doing better when we have health care for all (and lots of regulations to make it a lot harder for the worker to cut off his finger too maybe).</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">&nbsp;</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">Now you make the assumption that business would just pocket all the difference in cost. Not often allowed to do that because competition will push price down close to cost of production.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">Go back to my original linked article and it points out the cost of the tariff.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">You claim it is good to keep costs high for those buying the filter but the examples in the article show it would be cheaper for 'you' the taxpayer to just pay the workers salary, have him/her sit on their butts and you save the rest of those $400,000 cost of keeping the job in your country. Now that difference could be used to pay down your countries debt or, 'you' the taxpayer, could have that extra $300,000 plus to spend on other things to actually increase your economy.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">That is the hidden cost of a tarriff.</FONT></P><P><FONT face="comic sans ms,sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3">Problem is everyone can see the closed 'filter factory' and those few people losing their jobs make a lot of noise. The rest of you paying an extra $1.50 for each filter do not have enough incentive to fight against the tariff although the total cost to your economy is huge.</FONT></P>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 12:18:51 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114135#M34535Canuck_22011-09-07T12:18:51ZRe: Is This Where You Are At?https://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114299#M34576
<P>Neither could I. &nbsp;;-)</P>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 19:13:50 GMThttps://community.agriculture.com/t5/Ag-Forum/The-peace-loving-left/m-p/114299#M34576schnurrbart2011-09-07T19:13:50Z