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Topic Review (Newest First)

02-19-2012 04:31 AM

LisaKoh

Re: WWW SF Rotterdam: Berdych (2) vs Del Potro (3)

I do happen to like Roger's forehand (see my sig) and I agree with some of your points but overall, I'd still take the DelPo forehand or the Berdych forehand over his. Is it a matter of personal preference? Perhaps. Federer has a great rally shot and he can do some crazy angles with his forehand. But DelPo and Berdych can kill a point with their forehands much more effectively.

Put it this way; these guys can hit 145 km winners off their forehands all day long whereas few other players can do that. Sitting on top of the baseline, you see some of their shots and think "How did they do that?" With Federer it's more of how he constructs the point rather than the physical execution of the shot itself, if it makes any sense.

Well Federer back then, yes. Federer circa 2012 dumps that shot into the net more often and starts making all kinds of UEs with it. (See the Isner match) But yeah, back in his prime he could do some great things with a forehand. Nowadays though, it's fleeting. And he did lose to these two on hard courts so you could argue that Berdych and Del Potro's forehands (when they're on) tend to overpower Roger's. He's hitting it with too much spin nowadays so it tends to sit up short.

Gonzalez is retired but that was a terrific shot when he was in his prime. Terrific, aesthetically pleasing and really fun to watch. As for Nadal, it's a shot that works on some and it doesn't work so well on others. For guys who can handle the spin like Djokovic, it's not such a devastating shot. On the other hand, the Djoker lost to Delpo last year and he was match point down against Berdych in the WTF which is a lot closer than Nadal got.

If I had to choose a forehand (from any active player, right now) I'd pick either Berdych or Del Potro's. theKSHE if you don't agree, you're perfectly entitled to collapse in a fit of conniptions as your smileys suggest.

A lot of what you say has truth in it, but I think you perhaps overstate the problematic performances and don't account for why they may have occurred. Also, you don't mention the Berdych or Del Potro inconsistencies. Are there none?

Is Mr. Federer as consistent now as he approaches 31 as he was in his mid 20's? Probably not. Does he frame a few more? Yes. Does he hit more into the net as he attempts to hit winners on slow courts? Sure. But no matter. Just because he has descended from the stratosphere doesn't mean he has crashed to earth. I believe he still has more variety with excellence in the game on his forehand than anyone else at his level, and in conditions that favor him (granted, with so many slow conditions these days it's not as many), he can still beat the best, and make them look like they are in quicksand. His forehand volleys are as deft as ever, he just doesn't get the chance use it as much these days.

If you don't think he still has the great forehand with variety of shots, talk to any top players that he recently beat during his recent 2011-2012 24 match streak, Nadal, Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro. Talk to Ivo Karlovic about the instinctive forehand lob that Federer conjured off Karlovic's dropshot about 1 meter from the net that he somehow managed to launch over the 6'10 (208cm) Karlovic's head at the 2012 Australian Open facing set point against him in the first set tiebreaker. Talk to #1 Novak Djokovic about how difficult it is, even in his prime, to survive the Federer forehand variety of shots and beat the elder Mr. Federer in important tournaments on any surface.

Does he have moments where his forehand appears to be off? Yes, especially when conditions don't suit him (slower and especially high bouncing surfaces). Isner and Fribourg? That court was laughable, with its high and irregular bounces and clearly didn't suit him. Of course that is going to produce more errors from Federer. Against Nadal in Australia, they played on the coolest, slowest conditions of the tournament. After 3 games with new balls, it was almost impossible to hit winners against Nadal. So he attempted quite risky flatter shots and hit a large number of forehands into the net in an attempt to produce winners. Was it the right strategy? That's a different question.

I'm sure one could point to other instances here and there where one could say Federer's forehand let him down, especially in the last 2-3 years as his collection of tournament has waned, but those moments are relatively far and few between. Many people tend to remember failures more than the successes, especially when a player has been great. His forehand is still an excellent weapon and one of the best in the game, even today.

Would one prefer Mr. Del Potro's or Mr. Berdych's forehand over Federer's? It's a matter of opinion. I happen to prefer excellence of a variety of shots over a one or two dimensional powerful shot, though again, any of these forehands are excellent and worthy of mention.

Respectfully,
masterclass

02-18-2012 01:57 PM

Clay Death

Re: WWW SF Rotterdam: Berdych (2) vs Del Potro (3)

vamos d-pot. he brutalizes berdych as i predicted yesterday. he is too consistent for berdych when he is playing well.

this one never was in question.

02-18-2012 01:51 PM

theKSHE

Re: WWW SF Rotterdam: Berdych (2) vs Del Potro (3)

Nothing against you, seriously, you're making some valid points, but I simply cannot accept Berdych being one of the best forehands on tour. Simply does not compute. Even Tsonga can do better.

02-18-2012 01:46 PM

LisaKoh

Re: WWW SF Rotterdam: Berdych (2) vs Del Potro (3)

Well Federer back then, yes. Federer circa 2012 dumps that shot into the net more often and starts making all kinds of UEs with it. (See the Isner match) But yeah, back in his prime he could do some great things with a forehand. Nowadays though, it's fleeting. And he did lose to these two on hard courts so you could argue that Berdych and Del Potro's forehands (when they're on) tend to overpower Roger's. He's hitting it with too much spin nowadays so it tends to sit up short.

Gonzalez is retired but that was a terrific shot when he was in his prime. Terrific, aesthetically pleasing and really fun to watch. As for Nadal, it's a shot that works on some and it doesn't work so well on others. For guys who can handle the spin like Djokovic, it's not such a devastating shot. On the other hand, the Djoker lost to Delpo last year and he was match point down against Berdych in the WTF which is a lot closer than Nadal got.

If I had to choose a forehand (from any active player, right now) I'd pick either Berdych or Del Potro's. theKSHE if you don't agree, you're perfectly entitled to collapse in a fit of conniptions as your smileys suggest.

Really? You don't think so? I haven't seen a forehand ever hit as hard or as cleanly as these two. Especially Del Potro, that thing is like a rocket. On TV not so much but in person, it's monstrous. Berdych has that great windshield wiper action going on with his and he's used that shot to dispose of quite a few good players.

Really? You don't think so? I haven't seen a forehand ever hit as hard or as cleanly as these two. Especially Del Potro, that thing is like a rocket. On TV not so much but in person, it's monstrous. Berdych has that great windshield wiper action going on with his and he's used that shot to dispose of quite a few good players.

I'm curious, who do you think has a better forehand than these two?

I don't know about better, who's to judge? Let's just say one of the best. Other than the ones you mention, one obvious candidate for one of the best forehands not only of this generation but of all time would be Mr. Federer. It's deadliest on faster courts, but it is a feared shot on any court. He may not have the most powerful forehand, but he can make every shot in the book and invent shots not in the book with his forehand and hit it with power and placement. His peers echo this:

"He's the most gifted player that I've ever seen in my life. I've seen a lot of people play. I've seen the (Rod) Lavers, I played against some of the great players—the Samprases, Beckers, Connors, Borgs, you name it. This guy could be the greatest of all time. That, to me, says it all."
—John McEnroe

"Roger’s forehand is the greatest shot in our sport."
—McEnroe

“His shot-making is second to none.”
—Lleyton Hewitt

A bit of hyperbole, certainly, but it's a fair assessment.

Fernando Gonzalez certainly had one of the best in this generation, a lot of power. Rafael Nadal's forehand is very strong, the best topspin, but he does not have the variety of Federer. Soderling, Tsonga, Djokovic all have excellent forehands.

Really? You don't think so? I haven't seen a forehand ever hit as hard or as cleanly as these two. Especially Del Potro, that thing is like a rocket. On TV not so much but in person, it's monstrous. Berdych has that great windshield wiper action going on with his and he's used that shot to dispose of quite a few good players.