A few have suggested it, might as well test the waters. The idea is to give people who haven't read the books a safe place to talk about the show.

A few quick ground rules:

No Spoilers!!!!! for upcoming episodes.

Larger Song of Ice and Fire discussion should be limited to the other thread although I think a tiny bit of book delving to fill in holes should be okay (example of this would be talking about Catelyn and her treatment of the wolves in the novel, which was alluded to on TV but never really made clear...)

Everything that happened that week is fair game once an episode airs. So if you don't watch on Sunday night, I'd stay outta here until you do...

He was a traitor because he spoke out against Melisandre and told Stannis to abandon her. Stannis then tossed Davos into the dungeons for treason vecause he tried to attack Melisandre. You sure you've watched this season?

Or two, after last episode no ****ing way you speak treason against "ginger" and Jon snows courtship. Zing!!!

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"When I touch that field again, you're going to feel my pain,you're going to go through what I went through. It's going to be that way for me the rest of my career." - Jamaal Charles

I like the show but fantasy is just not my favorite type of show. Well **** now I can assume that the ginger and snows relationship are important in the future. Thanks

Two things...

1. Once it's shown on HBO it's fair game for convo in here
2. Ginger & Snow I have no idea, but her relationship with my eyes was important

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"When I touch that field again, you're going to feel my pain,you're going to go through what I went through. It's going to be that way for me the rest of my career." - Jamaal Charles

This episode was a mid-season plot mover, relatively unforgettable, but necessary nonetheless.

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"When I touch that field again, you're going to feel my pain,you're going to go through what I went through. It's going to be that way for me the rest of my career." - Jamaal Charles

That episode wasn't quite as thrilling as a few of the past few, but very good all the same. I especially liked the ending with Jon Snow and Ygritte on the top of the wall, which was unusually uplifting for this show.

The Tywin/Lady Olenna interaction was great. They are two characters on this show that are used to being the smartest people in the room and having power over their respective houses, so to actually put them together in the same room created some interesting dialogue and conflict. Both tried to one up the other in their conversation until Tywin was finally able to get what he wanted out of her (although that was only because he's in the position of power at this moment).

Conversations between Littlefinger and Varys always prove to be intriguing for the insight into their motivations and state of mind. Littlefinger's quest for power at the expense of everything and everyone is none too flattering, though. I still haven't liked him since the day he betrayed Ned.

Joffrey continues to get more sadistic and stupid in our eyes with the confirmation that he was the one who tried to have Tyrion killed last season (not Cersei) and, of course, with torturing and killing Ros (which was fortunately off screen). Margaery Tyrell has shown an ability to control him somewhat so far, but how long can that last?

Speaking of a torture scene that was on screen, we're right back this week into Theon's season-long descent into worse and worse shit. This time the crazy guy who released him, saved him, and then captured him again (he expressed a love for "the hunt" today, including his desire to go after the two Stark boys now, so that partially explains why he did that) is now torturing him both mentally and physically. Gruesome stuff. I don't think Theon is getting out of this situation this season, if he ever does.

We were also able to directly contrast the two red priests as Thoros and Melisandre came into direct contact. Thoros is obviously the much more easygoing of the two (in fact, he even admitted he stopped believing in the religion at one point). And unlike her, he seems to care nothing about power (which is ironic when you consider that this god has apparently given him the power to save lives). When Melisandre saw Beric, she was shocked at Thoros' "ability" to save him so many times and was seemingly quite jealous of it. I don't know what her plans are for Gendry (my guess would be sacrificing him to her god like the many others), but I can't imagine they'll be good for him. Arya was able to see right through her in a similar way to Davos Seaworth.

There were a few other developments with Robb, Sam, Bran, and Tyrion, but those were more about moving the plot forward in their stories. Jaime's also going to be released by Roose Bolton, but it's going to be without Brienne. The old Jaime might not have cared about such a thing, but I certainly don't think he'll be willingly going to King's Landing without her. Not after what they've been through.

Littlefinger won that round, he thwarted Varys' plot to have Sansa marry Loras, and he ferreted out Varys' spy and gave her to Joffrey to kill which elminates her as a spy and wins Littlefinger favor with Joffrey. Plus I loved the Chaos is a ladder speech.

What I want to know is what Varys really means when he says he did what he did for the "good of the realm." He said the same thing to Ned Stark in the dungeons in Season 1, and I just don't know if I believe him, or what the word "realm" really means to him. Littlefinger's motives seem obvious and are pretty much self gain. Not so sure what Varys' motives are.

I enjoyed the Melisandre/Arya scene. Arya is a tough and fearless little thing, and Mel's looking into her face and seeing the eyes of people Arya will kill was just creepy as hell and very intriguing! They will meet again? Hmmm... And telling Gendry he will make kings rise and fall. Interesting.

Agree that Tywin talking to Lady Olenna was awesome. Those two actors are doing just a tremendous job, and seeing them together in a scene was fun. I hope they get some more scenes together.

It was kind of odd seeing Cersei and Tyrion talking peacefully and actually somewhat getting along. But I wish they had shown Tyrion actually tell Sansa and Shae that Sansa has to marry Tyrion, that would have been an entertaining scene.

I enjoyed the visuals on the Wall and the action on the climb, very tense. Good stuff. I hope Jon or Ygritte takes that Warg guy (Orell?) out. He's been after Jon all along.

And Edmund was funny. "What?" Can't blame the guy for being nervous about the hideous wife the Freys are trying to foist on him, but still, he's got to do what he's got to do.

Littlefinger won that round, he thwarted Varys' plot to have Sansa marry Loras, and he ferreted out Varys' spy and gave her to Joffrey to kill which elminates her as a spy and wins Littlefinger favor with Joffrey. Plus I loved the Chaos is a ladder speech.

Particular as it was intercut with [or immediately followed by, can't recall precisely] Jon and firecrotch ascending their own literal 'ladder' to the top of the wall. LF is talking about a metaphorical survival and triumph while they were accomplishing a literal survival and triumph.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk

What I want to know is what Varys really means when he says he did what he did for the "good of the realm." He said the same thing to Ned Stark in the dungeons in Season 1, and I just don't know if I believe him, or what the word "realm" really means to him. Littlefinger's motives seem obvious and are pretty much self gain. Not so sure what Varys' motives are.

Varys is betting on power in the peopled lands under the king on the Iron Throne. He knows that some have more virtuous causes, but war will always fall hardest on the common man. He's figuring that peace under a bad king is always superior to war for a better or more virtuous king. If for nothing else, the people will spill their blood and the Iron Throne will end up twisting the virtuous future king into another form of bad leader anyway.

He wants royal disputes, when they arise, to be solved in the inner circle [ie, small council] where lands and crops aren't destroyed and citizens aren't slaughtered.

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You ever notice how on stop lights, green means go, but on a banana it's the opposite? Yellow means "go ahead." Green means "slow down." And red means "Where the **** did you get that banana?"