Sabaki is very underrated and misunderstood IMO but I'm glad I'm not the only person who has utilized angling and footwork principals from the Ryu-ha for other purposes.

Out of curiosity were you having issues with the blue belts in a straight up BJJ style match or randori that goes from striking/stand up to a BJJ standing submission/ground game?

As in their wrestling overwhelmed my Judo and their submissions and transitions were far superior. I found that the striking included in the Ryu Ha doesn't outweigh the shear fighting experience through competition and competitive training.

As in their wrestling overwhelmed my Judo and their submissions and transitions were far superior. I found that the striking included in the Ryu Ha doesn't outweigh the shear fighting experience through competition and competitive training.

I do a lot of drills with heavy medicine ball tosses in between sprawls. Like rounds of it while moving in a circle from right to left randomly. It got my sprawl timing down pat, it simulates wearing you out in the fight and still being able to drop down quick and rise with your hands guarding your jaw, etc. Maybe all you needed was some good sprawl drills. I agree though, doing any art at full force with resisting opponents naturally increases it's percentages of efficiency against an art that doesn't. Sorry for the delay, I'm defending the failures of the Bujinkan in another thread. The only issues I've ever really had with wrestlers were them being able to hide their take downs which eventually I began to understand the reasons behind that and a quick sprawl saved my ass during the times where I couldn't counter.

I do a lot of drills with heavy medicine ball tosses in between sprawls. Like rounds of it while moving in a circle from right to left randomly. It got my sprawl timing down pat, it simulates wearing you out in the fight and still being able to drop down quick and rise with your hands guarding your jaw, etc. Maybe all you needed was some good sprawl drills. I agree though, doing any art at full force with resisting opponents naturally increases it's percentages of efficiency against an art that doesn't. Sorry for the delay, I'm defending the failures of the Bujinkan in another thread. The only issues I've ever really had with wrestlers were them being able to hide their take downs which eventually I began to understand the reasons behind that and a quick sprawl saved my ass during the times where I couldn't counter.

A good sprawl will only help against a beginner. Once you encounter a wrestler that can chain head snaps, Russian ties, arm drags to setup their takedowns a good sprawl is not enough to save you. Once you encounter this with someone that can pass your guard at will due to their BJJ training, You realize there is no answer to a good wrestler than learning to wrestle. After 11 years of training in JJJ, Judo and now BJJ it's a lesson I learned on multiple occasions.

A good sprawl will only help against a beginner. Once you encounter a wrestler that can chain head snaps, Russian ties, arm drags to setup their takedowns a good sprawl is not enough to save you. Once you encounter this with someone that can pass your guard at will due to their BJJ training, You realize there is no answer to a good wrestler than learning to wrestle. After 11 years of training in JJJ, Judo and now BJJ it's a lesson I learned on multiple occasions.

I apparently have not had the pleasure to roll with someone very skilled in wrestling then. I will definitely try to make that happen and see where my weaknesses are in regards to dealing with that type of territory. The guard thing I do know about, using your elbow tips to dig into thigh kyushos to split their leg grip and dropping your knee over the same spot while crossing over is an awesome example of breaking the guard to pass it.

I apparently have not had the pleasure to roll with someone very skilled in wrestling then. I will definitely try to make that happen and see where my weaknesses are in regards to dealing with that type of territory. The guard thing I do know about, using your elbow tips to dig into thigh kyushos to split their leg grip and dropping your knee over the same spot while crossing over is an awesome example of breaking the guard to pass it.

Again only works against beginners. I aim higher to win against trained fighters.

The logic was really straight forward. Over the years of training, I felt while the randori we did at my school was necessary, I found the techniques that were working the best were the Judo techniques as we teach, train and compete under the USJA. In fact class really turned into doing Japanese Jujutsu drills and techniques during the classes and doing Judo Randori after. This lead to Judo competitions and training straight Judo. While I learning new scrolls and techniques, it really felt like an academic exercise rather than fighting. So I switched to do Judo full time. It was already part of what we were being taught and used for the kids classes. As a USJA school it was simple enough to start it with the Adults that wanted it. Unfortunately, as time pasted the number of adult students that wanted to compete Judo at my school diminished.

I had done a few years of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in College and that is how I found Judo is the first place. So I figured I'd go back. I had a friend training under one of the top American Black Belts and invited me to come by. Even after all my years of Judo & JJJ I was getting tooled by their blue belts. So in the effort to continue to improve, I switched my training over there full time. I value the time I trained in those Ryu-ha as I feel my timing and footwork as it pertains with weapons is top notch. I still go ahead and spar with Kali instructors from time to time and I prove more than a handful for them. All that is straight sabaki and counter attack out of Ryu-Ha I practiced. However, once the fight goes into a Close Combat range, Judo and BJJ has proven far superior.

Quoted for truth. This is an evolution I've seen a number of ex-ninjers take.

As Booj techniques are trained with more aliveness, it begins to look very much like sloppy Kyokushin and Judo mixed together. Emphasis on "sloppy." Cleaning that up entails training more and more in a decent striking art (take your pick Kyokushin, Muay Thai, boxing...) and a decent grappling art (Judo or BJJ). Most people I've seen realize this begin to spend more and more time practicing those arts and drift away from Booj. The folks who wanted some "dirty tactics" picked up some kind of Combatives training along the way too.

My Booj training group is slowly undergoing this metamorphosis (as a group) right now. It is no longer pure Booj. Probably the only reason we remain so firmly fixed on a Booj identity is we have an excellent relationship with a senior teacher whom we like and respect a great deal. But all the instructors and seniors are ranked in other arts. And we all started on ranking in other arts because we felt there were "gaps" in the Booj training methods.

I will agree with Gigatron that all the concepts are present in Booj. I have yet to encounter a new principle or idea in my non-Booj training. But Alive systems produce better practitioners because they have drills that increase comfort with using skills against resisting opponents rather than drills that allow one to endlessly admire a concept. It's practical versus theoretical.

If your training really is working for you, Gigatron, more power to you. I look forward to video.

Last edited by Styygens; 9/03/2012 2:01pm at .
Reason: I wasn't clear...

I apparently have not had the pleasure to roll with someone very skilled in wrestling then. I will definitely try to make that happen and see where my weaknesses are in regards to dealing with that type of territory. The guard thing I do know about, using your elbow tips to dig into thigh kyushos to split their leg grip and dropping your knee over the same spot while crossing over is an awesome example of breaking the guard to pass it.

Oh, god... Try that "pressure point" stuff against an intermediate or better grappler and they will make you pay. If you're in their guard, you've already been sucked too far into their world.