Rooscooter wrote:^^You really don't see it do you?... We have only one player on the team that can create his own shot.... one player that can get to the hoop and actually finish..... one player that can be counted on down the stretch....

we have some other "big names" but we saw last night that some other teams do as well..... and our "names" don't seem to live up to the "bigness" of them in tight situations.

Kobe is having to carry both ends of the floor right now because of the lack of any sort of cohesiveness on either end of the floor.

Last night we walked right into their trap over and over again..... Nash was completely nullified to the point that Morris' time of the floor was more productive.... Kobe was standing at the 3 point line with Wade in his shorts and we couldn't get the ball below the 3 point line with more than 8 seconds on the clock most of the night.

Kobe is playing too many minutes and being asked to do too much on a team with some other supposed "stars". He isn't the one that needs to adjust or sacrifice anymore..... it's about time the others got their collective acts together IMO.

Honestly, I think at times we THINK he has to 'carry' the team on both ends of the floor. The reality is, he doesn't on MOST nights if he (and we, as a team) play the right way together. And when we're not playing the right way together, a lot of that is going to go on Kobe as well. He's the leader of this team. That means you don't get to take the credit for the team playing well together, if you won't also accept any responsibility for the team not playing well together.

I also don't get the comments Kobe "having" to do things. Like exert energy on defense. Carry the team. Play on both ends of the floor. He's a freaking all-star/superstar making $30M per year which is more than any other player in the league. Saying he "has" to try on defense or carry the team, or play on both ends of the floor is like saying Howard "has" to be the anchor of the defense or Nash "has" to get teammates shots.

FWIW, Kobe played a bad game against the Heat, I even gave him the Zero, but I really don't think one can BLAME Kobe for the loss. That might not make any sense, but, the whole team was out of sorts and I for one don't think it was because of Kobe. But we hung in there, we were RIGHT there against an elite team and defending champs. I think we lost the game in the first half. I mean 16 turnovers in a HALF? Unacceptable. And sure, we were up by 1, but if commit your average (which is still high) we should have been up double digits.

Rooscooter wrote:^^You really don't see it do you?... We have only one player on the team that can create his own shot.... one player that can get to the hoop and actually finish..... one player that can be counted on down the stretch....

we have some other "big names" but we saw last night that some other teams do as well..... and our "names" don't seem to live up to the "bigness" of them in tight situations.

Kobe is having to carry both ends of the floor right now because of the lack of any sort of cohesiveness on either end of the floor.

Last night we walked right into their trap over and over again..... Nash was completely nullified to the point that Morris' time of the floor was more productive.... Kobe was standing at the 3 point line with Wade in his shorts and we couldn't get the ball below the 3 point line with more than 8 seconds on the clock most of the night.

Kobe is playing too many minutes and being asked to do too much on a team with some other supposed "stars". He isn't the one that needs to adjust or sacrifice anymore..... it's about time the others got their collective acts together IMO.

It's about time we get young and 2 way players ... the only one we have is damaged goods

Rooscooter wrote:^^You really don't see it do you?... We have only one player on the team that can create his own shot.... one player that can get to the hoop and actually finish..... one player that can be counted on down the stretch....

we have some other "big names" but we saw last night that some other teams do as well..... and our "names" don't seem to live up to the "bigness" of them in tight situations.

Kobe is having to carry both ends of the floor right now because of the lack of any sort of cohesiveness on either end of the floor.

Last night we walked right into their trap over and over again..... Nash was completely nullified to the point that Morris' time of the floor was more productive.... Kobe was standing at the 3 point line with Wade in his shorts and we couldn't get the ball below the 3 point line with more than 8 seconds on the clock most of the night.

Kobe is playing too many minutes and being asked to do too much on a team with some other supposed "stars". He isn't the one that needs to adjust or sacrifice anymore..... it's about time the others got their collective acts together IMO.

Honestly, I think at times we THINK he has to 'carry' the team on both ends of the floor. The reality is, he doesn't on MOST nights if he (and we, as a team) play the right way together. And when we're not playing the right way together, a lot of that is going to go on Kobe as well. He's the leader of this team. That means you don't get to take the credit for the team playing well together, if you won't also accept any responsibility for the team not playing well together.

I also don't get the comments Kobe "having" to do things. Like exert energy on defense. Carry the team. Play on both ends of the floor. He's a freaking all-star/superstar making $30M per year which is more than any other player in the league. Saying he "has" to try on defense or carry the team, or play on both ends of the floor is like saying Howard "has" to be the anchor of the defense or Nash "has" to get teammates shots.

FWIW, Kobe played a bad game against the Heat, I even gave him the Zero, but I really don't think one can BLAME Kobe for the loss. That might not make any sense, but, the whole team was out of sorts and I for one don't think it was because of Kobe. But we hung in there, we were RIGHT there against an elite team and defending champs. I think we lost the game in the first half. I mean 16 turnovers in a HALF? Unacceptable. And sure, we were up by 1, but if commit your average (which is still high) we should have been up double digits.

Kobe did what he was asked to do last night didn't he?.... he played decoy and on the perimeter while we tried to get Howard involved early.... he even forced some passes to Howard in that effort. Giving Kobe the ball with 8 seconds left on the shot clock 30 feet from the hoop and saying the out come "wasn't a good game" is missing all that took place before that moment of the missed shot or the forced pass..... The game plan was blown up at the 11:40 mark of the first quarter..... yet we didn't adjust.... didn't change..... didn't try different lineups..... Finally in the late 4th we ran a few down picks and got Kobe on the move and he got a sliver of daylight to shoot.... and guess what?... he made most of them. Now lets see if the coaching staff remembers that or if we go back to the pick and roll 40 feet from the hoop again.

As for your continued comments about Kobe's effort on both ends..... bias is one thing but this is getting somewhat ridiculous IMO. Kobe is on the floor way too much IMO and that results in what you are seeing and interpreting as some sort of pre-meditated act..... The rest of the team..... you know... the ones with all of the Awards.... they are the ones that are not pulling their own weight at this point. Why is Kobe carrying this squad like he carried Kwame and Smush?.... I'll give you a hint. It's not "selfishness" that was proven in the 08-11 stretch.....

"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded."Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it"Thomas Sowell

Rooscooter wrote:^^You really don't see it do you?... We have only one player on the team that can create his own shot.... one player that can get to the hoop and actually finish..... one player that can be counted on down the stretch....

we have some other "big names" but we saw last night that some other teams do as well..... and our "names" don't seem to live up to the "bigness" of them in tight situations.

Kobe is having to carry both ends of the floor right now because of the lack of any sort of cohesiveness on either end of the floor.

Last night we walked right into their trap over and over again..... Nash was completely nullified to the point that Morris' time of the floor was more productive.... Kobe was standing at the 3 point line with Wade in his shorts and we couldn't get the ball below the 3 point line with more than 8 seconds on the clock most of the night.

Kobe is playing too many minutes and being asked to do too much on a team with some other supposed "stars". He isn't the one that needs to adjust or sacrifice anymore..... it's about time the others got their collective acts together IMO.

Honestly, I think at times we THINK he has to 'carry' the team on both ends of the floor. The reality is, he doesn't on MOST nights if he (and we, as a team) play the right way together. And when we're not playing the right way together, a lot of that is going to go on Kobe as well. He's the leader of this team. That means you don't get to take the credit for the team playing well together, if you won't also accept any responsibility for the team not playing well together.

I also don't get the comments Kobe "having" to do things. Like exert energy on defense. Carry the team. Play on both ends of the floor. He's a freaking all-star/superstar making $30M per year which is more than any other player in the league. Saying he "has" to try on defense or carry the team, or play on both ends of the floor is like saying Howard "has" to be the anchor of the defense or Nash "has" to get teammates shots.

FWIW, Kobe played a bad game against the Heat, I even gave him the Zero, but I really don't think one can BLAME Kobe for the loss. That might not make any sense, but, the whole team was out of sorts and I for one don't think it was because of Kobe. But we hung in there, we were RIGHT there against an elite team and defending champs. I think we lost the game in the first half. I mean 16 turnovers in a HALF? Unacceptable. And sure, we were up by 1, but if commit your average (which is still high) we should have been up double digits.

Kobe did what he was asked to do last night didn't he?.... he played decoy and on the perimeter while we tried to get Howard involved early.... he even forced some passes to Howard in that effort. Giving Kobe the ball with 8 seconds left on the shot clock 30 feet from the hoop and saying the out come "wasn't a good game" is missing all that took place before that moment of the missed shot or the forced pass..... The game plan was blown up at the 11:40 mark of the first quarter..... yet we didn't adjust.... didn't change..... didn't try different lineups..... Finally in the late 4th we ran a few down picks and got Kobe on the move and he got a sliver of daylight to shoot.... and guess what?... he made most of them. Now lets see if the coaching staff remembers that or if we go back to the pick and roll 40 feet from the hoop again.

As for your continued comments about Kobe's effort on both ends..... bias is one thing but this is getting somewhat ridiculous IMO. Kobe is on the floor way too much IMO and that results in what you are seeing and interpreting as some sort of pre-meditated act..... The rest of the team..... you know... the ones with all of the Awards.... they are the ones that are not pulling their own weight at this point. Why is Kobe carrying this squad like he carried Kwame and Smush?.... I'll give you a hint. It's not "selfishness" that was proven in the 08-11 stretch.....

Are you saying Kobe had a good game because he did exactly what he was asked to do? I'm saying Kobe did NOT have a good game, but I don't think, given the dynamics of the game, that he the finger can really be pointed at him as the primary reason. I'm just not sure I can agree with the contention that Kobe had nothing to do with his production in the first 3 quarters.

As for the other comments ... I'm not talking about pre-meditation. Huh? Never said that. I did say, I'm not going to feel sorry for any all-star (or in Kobe's case, superstar) that makes $30M per year if he has to carry his team on both ends of the floor. Isn't that WHY he makes more than any professional basketball player on the planet of Earth?

I agree the other players aren't carrying their own weight. I think a part of that is on the coaching staff, a part of it is on injuries, and a part of it is on Kobe. I know that might sound weird, but I just believe that the best player on a team, his job is to make the other players play better. There is only so much you can do with a Kwame and Smush. Funny that you mention them, because he made those guys better. They had their best years playing along side Kobe. Now, there is only so much you can get out of those guys... but the point is, he made them play better and more efficiently than they had with other teams. That isn't happening here.

If you're suggesting that Kobe views Dwight Howard and Steve Nash as Kwame Brown and Smush Parker, then maybe you're raising an interesting point. That there is a trust factor missing here with this team? It doesn't make any sense for him to have to do that. So maybe we need to be trying something different if that is in fact the case. I mean, what's next? We bring Lebron James and Chris Paul over here and we're going to have conversations about how Kobe has to carry them like they're Luke Walton and Smush Parker? Figure it out. If you're having to carry guys like this, then you're not playing with them the right way.

Not a "point"..... just an observation. The Lakers on paper have a "super-team".... yet Kobe's role hasn't been this demanding since we had Kwame and Smush....

There are ones here like you that see it as a Kobe thing..... I don't and see it as a everyone but Kobe thing. That's not to say I believe Kobe is playing perfect or even great most of the time..... rather playing the only way he knows.... harder. Some of the others seem to have packed it up this year with the exception of MWP and some of the bench players that are playing for jobs next year.

It's interesting that the criticism is falling on Kobe when so little seems to fall on the others who are not pulling their weight.

As for last night's game. It was obvious there was a game plan to put Kobe on the perimeter and draw the defense away from Howard and Nash to allow them to play pick and roll..... that was nullified the first 3 possessions.... yet we forced it for the next 42 minutes. All Kobe got in the way of opportunities last night where the typical "toss it to Kobe at the end of the shot clock" shots until someone on the bench tried something different in the final few minutes. Combine that with the misses from the line and the turnovers......

"If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

“The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded."Dwight Eisenhower

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it"Thomas Sowell

Kobe followed the game plan, and was trying to feed it to Dwight, in the second and third he tried to get some shots for himself and play D but didn't take over, for three quarters he still only had a total of 10 shots and then in the 4th he tried to do the Kobe takeover stuff, but he was just too cold, couple of shots fall we win **shrugs**

What I saw last night was a TIRED Kobe. You can't expect him to chase the Opp's best backcourt player night in and night out. MIA was CONSTANTLY rubbing Kobe off with screen after screen. Anybody who has played any type of competitive hoops knows, it drains you and drains you fast.

Not a "point"..... just an observation. The Lakers on paper have a "super-team".... yet Kobe's role hasn't been this demanding since we had Kwame and Smush....

There are ones here like you that see it as a Kobe thing..... I don't and see it as a everyone but Kobe thing. That's not to say I believe Kobe is playing perfect or even great most of the time..... rather playing the only way he knows.... harder. Some of the others seem to have packed it up this year with the exception of MWP and some of the bench players that are playing for jobs next year.

It's interesting that the criticism is falling on Kobe when so little seems to fall on the others who are not pulling their weight.

As for last night's game. It was obvious there was a game plan to put Kobe on the perimeter and draw the defense away from Howard and Nash to allow them to play pick and roll..... that was nullified the first 3 possessions.... yet we forced it for the next 42 minutes. All Kobe got in the way of opportunities last night where the typical "toss it to Kobe at the end of the shot clock" shots until someone on the bench tried something different in the final few minutes. Combine that with the misses from the line and the turnovers......

Well, I would agree to your point that this season has been fairly demanding to Kobe, although maybe not the most demanding. As for playing harder, I think what Kobe needs to focus on, is not playing harder, but smarter.

If playing with Dwight Howard and Steve Nash means he is playing harder than he was when he was playing with Andrew Bynum and Derek Fisher, then I think he and the team need to re-visit the way he is playing. Like I said before, if we end up bringing on Lebron James and Chris Paul here and he is playing as hard as he did with Kwame and Smush, then I will also say, he needs to take a look as to whether he is playing smart. If Kobe is ever playing harder than he was with Kwame/Smush, with players that are better than Kwame/Smush, then we aren't playing with those players the right way.

I'm also not clear on how it is you think that this season, Kobe has been playing harder on defense.

Last night's game, either Kobe played a good game or he didn't. I didn't think he played a good game. Why he didn't we can probably agree on many points but that doesn't change the fact that he didn't play well.

The fact is that Kobe wasnt ready for this game and it was really hard to watch the first 3 qtrs. Dude was shooting airballs and stepping out of bounds, i couldnt believe my eyes. The sad thing is that even with his stats being great he is NOWHERE as good as he was in his prime, 2 simple things he just cant close out quarters and games anymore and his D is suspect. Just watch Phils last season even though the team was mentally tired that game 1 of the series is perfect example, Kobe went all out war in this game but he just couldnt close the game and the series was over. Same thing last year against OKC i still cant believe the turnovers and the shots that he took. It hurt my heart to say this things but this is reality. Its LeBron time now he is at his peak and he is taking the torch.

LOS ANGELES -- It was asking a lot of Kobe Bryant when the Los Angeles Lakers shifted to assigning the 34-year-old to guarding the opposing team's most dynamic guard while still relying on him on the offensive end.

It was asking so much, in fact, that Bryant admitted after the Lakers' 99-90 loss to the Miami Heat on Thursday that he will need some help to be able to continue it.

After holding Cleveland's Kyrie Irving to just 15 points and Milwaukee's Brandon Jennings to 12 points in consecutive wins while still averaging 27.0 points on 63.6 percent shooting the past two games, Bryant's defense and offense both took a major hit against Miami.

Not only did Bryant's man on defense, Dwyane Wade, score 27 points on 11-for-20 shooting, but Bryant's offense also struggled, as he scored just 22 points on 8-for-25 shooting (32 percent).

Bryant, who leads the league in scoring at 29.7 points per game, said that alleviating some pressure on him on offense will in turn allow him to apply more pressure on defense.

"If (guarding the opposing team's offensive threat) is going to be something that I'm going to have to do for a while, I'm going to need my teammates' help to free up offensively," Bryant said. "Like we did in the fourth quarter -- create some picks for me, create some easy shots. That's going to be tough for me to guard the top guy and come down the other end and have to go one-on-one every play. So, I'm going to need some help."

He brought up the issue several times during his postgame remarks to the media.

"I need some help offensively to save energy and not have to isolate and do things like that," Bryant said. "I'm going to need some picks. I'm going to need to catch-and-shoot like I did in the fourth quarter a little bit to make my job a little easier. I think the first three quarters of me just standing around the perimeter, the defense is praying for that. We have to do some things to free me up and get me in open spaces, this way I can be more active on the defensive end of the floor."

Bryant started the game with just nine points on 3-for-16 shooting through the first three quarters before getting things going in the fourth, putting up 13 points on 5-for-9 shooting in the final frame thanks in part to getting open looks from the 3-point line off a screen set by Pau Gasol as well as a handoff assist from Gasol.

"We talked about it going into the fourth quarter. I said, 'Coach D man, goddamn. Come on, man. Come on, man. I can't be standing out here like this all night long now,'" Bryant said, recalling a conversation with Lakers coach Mike D'Antoni. "We did a much better job of that. My teammates know. We got to pick each other up. I'm going to go out there and do what I got to do defensively, and then on the offensive end of the floor we'll pick each other up."

Point guard Steve Nash, the man responsible for orchestrating the show on offense, agreed that the Lakers can make it easier on his fellow 17-year veteran teammate.

"Ideally, we should be able to make them pay in other areas of the court," Nash said. "We should make problems for people with Dwight [Howard] on the block, Pau on the block. When they're doubling my pick-and-rolls, the game should open up because it should be a 3-on-2 or 2-on-1 on the weakside. I just don't think we were efficient enough elsewhere tonight. He shouldn't have to carry us like that all the time. We have good enough players that we should be able to take advantage of elsewhere on the court."

Howard suggested that the contributions of Wade, whom Bryant was assigned to keep in check, had a bigger impact on the outcome than LeBron James' 39 points on 17-for-25 shooting on offense.

"I think what hurt us was Dwyane," Howard said. "LeBron is going to get his points, but to be able to control Dwyane and Chris Bosh (who had just seven points on 3-for-10 shooting), we have a better chance of winning. Tonight, D-Wade had it going on offense."

Bryant put some of the offensive blame on himself for the fact that only nine of his 25 shot attempts were from 15 feet away from the basket or closer.

"I take responsibility for that," Bryant said. "I allowed myself to be too big of a decoy tonight. … I'll take the brunt of it because I should have been way more aggressive and not allowed myself to be on the perimeter. To have to take 25-footers all night long, that's just not going to happen again."

What will happen again is Bryant playing defense on the Lakers' opponents' best weapon to try to disrupt their offense.

"We have to do that," D'Antoni said before the game. "That's really good and it works. Can we give him a day off from it? Maybe. Can we give him a little less (playing) time? Yeah. But, anybody that does something that well, we kind of have to do it for a while.

"Kobe being on the ball is a big deal. He sets the tone for us defensively. He has done that and taken on that leadership role, and when that happens, we've been pretty good lately."

That's as close as it's gonna get to Kobe admitting that he's getting physically tired and drained from guarding the opp's best backcourt player.

Thats the closest thing I've ever heard to an admission like that in his career. Dude is tapped.

I wouldn't say that. I think he's.......

1. Trying to motivate his teammates

2. Telling Jim Buss or WTF is in charge these days to get a play making, defensive wing.

He be sneaky like dat

I wish you are right. But when you look at how he's been playing defense the past 3 years up until the recent spell, Kobe's been saving his energy for offense.

We know what he can do on the defensive side of the ball, witness Irving and Jennings. The problem is, Kobe has realized and we have missed it, that he can't do it consistently anymore AND be efficient on offense. That's why he cheats so much on D before. Never really guarding his man but resting and hoping to get a steal by cheating on D.

What can we realistically expect? Dude has so much mileage on his legs that this is bound to happen.

When Kobe said, "we are old.", he is 100% right. Sometimeswe forget that he included himself in that statement.

Kobe had a very rough shooting night. Was tired from D-ing up younger guys. LeBron played great and got looked after all night. Heat doubled Kobe all night. Lakers still only lost by 9 in the last few mins

Not a bad result. I really hope MDA stays the course with this line-up and rotation

ESPN/ABC Commentator, GSW Coach and NBA Legend Mark Jackson on Kobe Bryant'No disrespect to Kyra Sedgwick, but damn he is The Closer''Mamma, there goes that man'

That's as close as it's gonna get to Kobe admitting that he's getting physically tired and drained from guarding the opp's best backcourt player.

Thats the closest thing I've ever heard to an admission like that in his career. Dude is tapped.

I wouldn't say that. I think he's.......

1. Trying to motivate his teammates

2. Telling Jim Buss or WTF is in charge these days to get a play making, defensive wing.

He be sneaky like dat

I wish you are right. But when you look at how he's been playing defense the past 3 years up until the recent spell, Kobe's been saving his energy for offense.

We know what he can do on the defensive side of the ball, witness Irving and Jennings. The problem is, Kobe has realized and we have missed it, that he can't do it consistently anymore AND be efficient on offense. That's why he cheats so much on D before. Never really guarding his man but resting and hoping to get a steal by cheating on D.

What can we realistically expect? Dude has so much mileage on his legs that this is bound to happen.

When Kobe said, "we are old.", he is 100% right. Sometimeswe forget that he included himself in that statement.

Yeah I think this is fair. And a part of me feels like, isn't this why we got him help? This is why we brought in Nash and Howard along with Pau and MWP, etc.

I just don't think we are going to be successful anymore with Kobe playing on both ends of the court for 35+ mins a night. We're also though, not going to be successful anymore with him playing 35 mins+ a night and only playing on one side of the court.

We have to figure out how to reduce Kobe's minutes and win ball games. And until we (and by we I mean the team's leaders and coaching staff) figure out how to do that, we are going to struggle. Kobe should be playing around 30-32 mins a night and that's it but he will have to play on both ends of the court.

Yeah it's true that he needs help. He can't do it on both ends consistently anymore, that's for sure.

I think 35 minutes is a good number. And if we had someone legitimately as a 2nd scoring option (D12 doesn't count unfortunately ) then he could afford to go hard on the defensive end.

I like what Dwight can POTENTIALLY CONSISTENTLY do for this team, and at his peak is a better player. But given his offensive shortcomings, and our putrid defense as a team this year, seems like we would be a *little* better or at least the same with a *healthy* Bynum. By no means am I suggesting I would rather have Bynum, especially given the immaturity/head case, but think about it -- defensively we suck & people score in the paint at will. At least Bynum was a dependable second option and had a post game. Again, not suggesting I want him back, just recognizing the differences between he and Dwight, and how their respective skills would fit on our team (given what we have seen them do in Laker uniforms).

That's as close as it's gonna get to Kobe admitting that he's getting physically tired and drained from guarding the opp's best backcourt player.

exactly what I thought when I watched the interview after the game. It really was some ground breaking stuff that he said. He pretty much said I can't do both things anymore, it's one or the other. Sureal moment sort of.

"I just put my faith in God. Through him we can do all things" - Kobe Bryant, March 24, 2004

Kobe's right, at his age and the mileage he has on that body he can't be expected to perform at a high level on both ends of the floor. When you have Dwight, Pau, Nash, and Jamison he shouldn't have to score 30+ every night but sadly that's not always the case.

Rooscooter wrote:Not a "point"..... just an observation. The Lakers on paper have a "super-team".... yet Kobe's role hasn't been this demanding since we had Kwame and Smush....

This...

He is playing way too much minutes and the Lakers is supposed to be super stacked... 39 MPG for a guy who has near 44,000 minutes is disturbing... At least when he was carrying Kwame Brown and Brian Cook he was like 6 years younger, and you can understand why he is playing heavy minutes...