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But this answers my old question about how Obsidian's leverage with publishers changed after the success of NV. Not much, it seems.

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Going by Zane Lyon's linkedin, this project started in July 2010, before New Vegas was even released.

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Context, bro, context. Re-read what I quoted and then reconsider the context. The statement had nothing to do with SP-RPG.

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The only project they started AFTER New Vegas is an original IP (Led by Sawyer). Which shows leverage. Your point?

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THIS:

Now, I would bet that Obsidian would JUMP at the chance to make Arcanum 2: The Tormenting if that was something that Activision wanted to make and if they wanted Obsidian to make it. I remember telling Chris Jones that Stonebridge in DS3 could easily pass for Tarant from Arcanum and that we should put together a pitch to do Arcanum 2. Unfortunately at this time, it isn't an IP that Activision wants to work on.

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You ironically ignorant fuck. FFS, I though Volly was bad. That quote is completely independant from any project that may or may not have started after NV. Now, you can feel free to call Anthony out on being full of shit and rub whatever Arcanum/Planescape project Sawyer is now working on due to leverage generated by NV under his nose or you can stop being such a fucking stupid fanboy.

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Anthony says that Activision doesn't want to do it at this time. That has nothing to do with having leverage but is a decision by Activision themselves.

And how would they have leverage with Activision of all people in the first place?

The secret project that Josh is the project director for was as a direct result of both Vegas and DS3.

I know some of you guys keep thinking that DS3 was a failure, either because you didn't like it, or because you think over 820k units is a failure.
When we show publishers DS3, including the review scores which were mid to low 7, we ALSO show them the price tag for DS3, which is VERY LOW. We also show them how SOLID and bug free Onyx is, how flexible it is, AND we show them our amazing toolset. At this point publisher's jaws hit the floor (or the table if seated). When we tell them DS3 went through console certification with ALMOST perfect scores, believe me, they are impressed.

"Kaboom is not really a product designed for those who enjoy the life of the mind. Quite the opposite. It's a product designed for those whose subnormal IQs locate them in the brutish twilight existence that divides, hazily, the crude human from the cunning beast."
Ace, from Ace of Spades HQ

The secret project that Josh is the project director for was as a direct result of both Vegas and DS3.

I know some of you guys keep thinking that DS3 was a failure, either because you didn't like it, or because you think over 820k units is a failure.
When we show publishers DS3, including the review scores which were mid to low 7, we ALSO show them the price tag for DS3, which is VERY LOW. We also show them how SOLID and bug free Onyx is, how flexible it is, AND we show them our amazing toolset. At this point publisher's jaws hit the floor (or the table if seated). When we tell them DS3 went through console certification with ALMOST perfect scores, believe me, they are impressed.

I'm laughing because a lot of you are acting like it's the end of the world. I mean I realize its the Codex and a certain amount of hatred is required and there is always the game of trying to one up each other with how shocked you are by the news.

Many (myself included) consider Matt and Trey some of the finest modern satirists working today. Holding that opinion apart, consider the fact that South Park is (over) a BILLION dollar franchise. Let that sink in for a minute.

Chance to work with some really talented guys.
Chance to work on one of the most recognized IPs in the world.
Chance to make bank.

I think Obsidian is doing what any independent game developer would do given the chance.

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The way I see it this can backfire immensely. We have a billion dollar franchise with tens of millions of fans and a genre that appeals to how many of those? Iin case the numbers won't be high enough is the South Park setting appealing to RPG fans?

And I don't even want to get started on how difficult it will be to implement something in a video game that works in a 30 minute TV show.

I'm laughing because a lot of you are acting like it's the end of the world.

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A lot of people are very disappointed and I don't think it's that hard to figure out why.

- People who like RPGs take their hobby more or less seriously. They want games with depth. They want to be taken to interesting worlds, fantasy or sci-fi. Most of them do not want a lulzy game based on shitty hit-n-miss cartoon. From what I've seen, the overall reaction was fairly negative, so it's not just the Codex.

- In a sense it is the end of the world. If this is all Obsidian can get this days, then we're getting close to the end. Nobody expects much from Bethesda these days. Bioware's gone full retard, courtesy of EA, so Obsidian was always we had left in North America. While New Vegas and the expansions were solid, everything else was disappointing (an action game with stats, canceled project that was a poor choice for an RPG to begin with, a sequel to a shitty action RPG franchise, and the above mentioned lulzy game based on shitty hit-n-miss cartoon).

I'm not blaming Obsidian. I understand the circumstances and I do believe that given a choice they would have made something cool, something we've seen in the expansion packs (unfortunately). So, yeah, it sucks that they don't have a choice and have to take what's offered.

Many (myself included) consider Matt and Trey some of the finest modern satirists working today. Holding that opinion apart, consider the fact that South Park is (over) a BILLION dollar franchise. Let that sink in for a minute.

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a BILLION dollar franchise? Gee Mister, that's a lot of money...

Go make a fucking barbie RPG.

I know some of you guys keep thinking that DS3 was a failure, either because you didn't like it, or because you think over 820k units is a failure.

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We think that it was a Dungeon Siege game.

When we tell them DS3 went through console certification with ALMOST perfect scores, believe me, they are impressed.

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We're impressed too. You have no idea how much.

I think Obsidian is doing what any independent game developer would do given the chance.

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Yeah, totally.

Spazmo: Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex.

A: Completly controlled by Trey & Mark. Obsidian is just the Company that implents everything.

B: It's a "work together" project where both parties work hand in hand together on everything.

C: Obsidian had free reign aside from what Matt & Parker did.

Please just tell me where ca. this project is.

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Solidly B. Zane and others proved VERY early that we could visually hit the target they wanted, which was to make the video game LOOK like a TV episode. From camera, to content.

It's actually pretty amazing to work Matt and Trey, as well as the people who work on the actual TV show at SP Studios. You have know idea how cool it is to write some dialogue for the kids, and then get audio from SP Studios for those lines. Their team at SP Studios actually provide US with concept art too. They are just a great gang to work with, very funny too obviously.

SP can be very topical, which indicates how fast they work and often they can change gears for TV. They really are professionals, and they understand that TV and video games are two different mediums with two different development processes. They understand that they can change the topic of this week's TV show on a dime for some breaking news event, but that same mode of operation doesn't work in video games. Video games that focus on topical humor don't tend be topical when they are released due to how long it takes for video games to be developed.

"Kaboom is not really a product designed for those who enjoy the life of the mind. Quite the opposite. It's a product designed for those whose subnormal IQs locate them in the brutish twilight existence that divides, hazily, the crude human from the cunning beast."
Ace, from Ace of Spades HQ

I'm laughing because a lot of you are acting like it's the end of the world.

Click to expand...

A lot of people are very disappointed and I don't think it's that hard to figure out why.

- People who like RPGs take their hobby more or less seriously. They want games with depth. They want to be taken to interesting worlds, fantasy or sci-fi. Most of them do not want a lulzy game based on shitty hit-n-miss cartoon. From what I've seen, the overall reaction was fairly negative, so it's not just the Codex.

- In a sense it is the end of the world. If this is all Obsidian can get this days, then we're getting close to the end. Nobody expects much from Bethesda these days. Bioware's gone full retard, courtesy of EA, so Obsidian was always we had left in North America. While New Vegas and the expansions were solid, everything else was disappointing (an action game with stats, canceled project that was a poor choice for an RPG to begin with, a sequel to a shitty action RPG franchise, and the above mentioned lulzy game based on shitty hit-n-miss cartoon).

I'm not blaming Obsidian. I understand the circumstances and I do believe that given a choice they would have made something cool, something we've seen in the expansion packs (unfortunately). So, yeah, it sucks that they don't have a choice and have to take what's offered.

Many (myself included) consider Matt and Trey some of the finest modern satirists working today. Holding that opinion apart, consider the fact that South Park is (over) a BILLION dollar franchise. Let that sink in for a minute.

Click to expand...

a BILLION dollar franchise? Gee Mister, that's a lot of money...

Go make a fucking barbie RPG.

I know some of you guys keep thinking that DS3 was a failure, either because you didn't like it, or because you think over 820k units is a failure.

Click to expand...

We think that it was a Dungeon Siege game.

When we tell them DS3 went through console certification with ALMOST perfect scores, believe me, they are impressed.

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We're impressed too. You have no idea how much.

I think Obsidian is doing what any independent game developer would do given the chance.

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Yeah, totally.

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Do you expect us to be altruists and only do things out of love? People need and want to get paid. That is not a sin or a bad thing. However, money isn't even the FIRST reason why we are doing this. Most of the Obsidianites genuinely believe in the game we are making and are working hard to make the best game they can. They are working with an IP that they really like, and in some creepier cases, love.

I can see how if you hate SP, that you might view this as signs that your beloved RPG games are going to be nothing but tears and ashes. Relax, there will be more video games.

When it all comes down to it, that is all they are, video games. The world will not end tomorrow if they were to all disappear. Children would still laugh, the sun would still rise. I love my job. I have been doing this for over eight years, and playing them almost all of my life - but let's be serious, we aren't curing cancer here.

One could even make the argument that we make the world WORSE because we give people something else to FIGHT and ARGUE over, but now I'm being pedantic.

Also, I think a Barbie RPG could have potential. It would at least be something new. Seriously, don't just look at the word BARBIE and rage. Use your mind and your imagination. If I put a gun to your head and said come up with a design for a Barbie RPG that would be fun to play, I bet you could do it.
I *KNOW* Chris Avellone could do it, he and I have talked about it many times. Chris doesn't let himself be closed off to new frontiers and new challenges. He works, writes, and researches everyday about ANYTHING that could make himself a better game designer.

"Kaboom is not really a product designed for those who enjoy the life of the mind. Quite the opposite. It's a product designed for those whose subnormal IQs locate them in the brutish twilight existence that divides, hazily, the crude human from the cunning beast."
Ace, from Ace of Spades HQ

I think most people here thought DS3 was a 'failure' because is was a 'terrible' game (relative to the tastes of people who post at the Codex). While I don't think it was terrible I would call it mediocre at best and a ripoff at its list price compared to the content. That said, I appreciate the fact that it was probably produced for a reasonable cost, was relatively bug free, and sold like hotcakes to modern gamers of a certain ilk. But rarely on a gaming website are you going to see posters praise games for their financial efficiency just like you wouldn't expect a movie critic to praise a film based on its box office gross.

Do you expect us to be altruists and only do things out of love? People need and want to get paid.

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Did you miss the part where I said that I'm not blaming Obsidian for anything?

Most of the Obsidianites genuinely believe in the game we are making and are working hard to make the best game they can. They are working with an IP that they really like, and in some creepier cases, love.

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It can be an entertaining game. It can even be a product of love. However, there is no fucking way this game can be called a good RPG. Like, ever. That's the sad part.

I can see how if you hate SP, that you might view this as signs that your beloved RPG games are going to be nothing but tears and ashes. Relax, there will be more video games.

When it all comes down to it, that is all they are, video games. The world will not end tomorrow if they were to all disappear. Children would still laugh, the sun would still rise. I love my job. I have been doing this for over eight years, and playing them almost all of my life - but let's be serious, we aren't curing cancer here.

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Nobody's saying that you are. Nobody's saying that the world will end. Nobody will die from the fucking disappointment. All I'm saying that it sucks that people who like role-playing games have nothing to look forward to. You understand that, don't you?

In case you don't:

Q: "Long time ago, answering a question about the future of RPGs at NMA, you said that they are going "straight to hell" and that "Troika is one of the last pure PC RPG developer in the U.S." How would you answer the same question today?"

A: [J.E. Sawyer]: "To my knowledge there are no pure PC RPG developers left outside of very small outfits like Spiderweb Software.

Welcome to hell!"

If I put a gun to your head and said come up with a design for a Barbie RPG that would be fun to play, I bet you could do it.

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An apt analogy, considering Obsidian's situation.

I *KNOW* Chris Avellone could do it, he and I have talked about it many times. Chris doesn't let himself be closed off to new frontiers and new challenges. He works, writes, and researches everyday about ANYTHING that could make himself a better game designer.

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If only he had the freedom to do what he wants....

Spazmo: Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex.

I can see how if you hate SP, that you might view this as signs that your beloved RPG games are going to be nothing but tears and ashes. Relax, there will be more video games.

When it all comes down to it, that is all they are, video games. The world will not end tomorrow if they were to all disappear. Children would still laugh, the sun would still rise. I love my job. I have been doing this for over eight years, and playing them almost all of my life - but let's be serious, we aren't curing cancer here.

One could even make the argument that we make the world WORSE because we give people something else to FIGHT and ARGUE over, but now I'm being pedantic.

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Maybe for someone who can afford participating in combat sports or hunting regularly. For us normal folk, gaming is the thing that makes life bearable.

Anthony Davis said:

Also, I think a Barbie RPG could have potential. It would at least be something new. Seriously, don't just look at the word BARBIE and rage. Use your mind and your imagination. If I put a gun to your head and said come up with a design for a Barbie RPG that would be fun to play, I bet you could do it.

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Maybe it would be fun to play, but Barbie dolls lack class. On the other hand something similar to Rozen Maiden dolls...

There is no butthurt. This game isn't something I'd ever play (not a big fan of South Park), so I'm not bitching about it. I can't even say that I'm angry that Obsidian is making it because they are not in a position to choose. If not working on what THQ thinks will make a buttload of money, Obsidian could have been working on what some other publisher thinks will make a buttload of money, and the Codex and publishers haven't been seeing eye-to-eye for a very long time.

What I dislike is Anthony's attitude about it. From "hahaha, why so butthurt" and "we are not made of money" to "relax, there will be more vidiya games to play!" and "think outside the box, Barbie RPG could be loads of fun!"

Spazmo: Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex.

What I dislike is Anthony's attitude about it. From "hahaha, why so butthurt" and "we are not made of money" to "relax, there will be more vidiya games to play!" and "think outside the box, Barbie RPG could be loads of fun!"

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You do care. You are angry at Obsidian.

That sentence is the fucking definition of butthurt since you don't really care as you yourself said.

I *KNOW* Chris Avellone could do it, he and I have talked about it many times. Chris doesn't let himself be closed off to new frontiers and new challenges. He works, writes, and researches everyday about ANYTHING that could make himself a better game designer.

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If only he had the freedom to do what he wants....

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I see VD's plan to convert all of Obsidian's designers to "indies" working on games for ITS.

Yeah, BG was a hardcore RPG, especially compared to the casual shite like Realms of Arkania, Wizardry, and Darklands.

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If you cannot get into Mass Effect n Dragon Age, perhaps RPG's are not you're stuff? Or give Oblivion a try, Bethesda usualy made there games for casual players not like Bioware that stickies to more hardcore oldschool RPG mecanics of deep, engrossing storylines and character delvopement.