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You can't blame me for being defensive on a forum, where we discuss and debate. I saw your post, and gave my opinion. IMO Naruto had a lot of great potential, but Kishimoto lost his touch in Part 2 and fails in every way to be as creative as One Piece. That's just my opinion.

Thing is I wasn't even defending Naruto. I mean with every Shounen manga there is only so much you can do. In One Piece, it appears that if you don't have a devil fruit or are either Zoro or Sanji, then you'll get destroyed. Same thing happened in Bleach. If you weren't named Ichigo then you might as well not even try.

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Originally Posted by Sidewinder

While it is very reminiscent of a lot of journey trainer fics, it held my attention. It stands out among a lot of the other fics I've read lately and I'm excited to continue the story.

Uh, have you read One Piece? Almost every single character in that manga has a creative, unique ability. I mean there are abilities in that manga that Kishi wouldn't even think of creating for his characters in Naruto simply because I think he lacks creativity. I don't mean to compare One Piece and Naruto (I like the latter more anyway), but One Piece's author knows how to be creative with his characters' abilities. That's one of the things that keeps the story fresh.

The abilities in Naruto are often boring imo. I mean just look at Naruto. He has like a hundred Rasengan variations and it gets tedious seeing him use only those moves. The only characters who have interesting jutsu in this manga are people who have the Sharingan, but only because they can pull all sorts of jutsu from their behinds without training.

I think Kishi's lack of variety is his biggest problem. He put so much attention on the Sharingan and Jinchuuriki in Part 2 that anyone who didn't have/were either of those two were just fodder. He did a good job keeping the rookie nin on somewhat equal footing in Part 1, but only Naruto and Sasuke ended up maintaining importance. It's just a shame that power creeps end up leaving behind a majority of the characters in almost every shounen.

Naruto just got worse and worse lol. Here are my main issues (open for discussion):

1) Naruto's ideology has totally changed. In Part 1, he was all about working hard for recognition and to achieve your goals and breaking away from destiny. Now he's all about being the chosen one, and how he was destined to save the world nonsense. Other leaf-nin beware because if you're not Naruto, you're unimportant. What happened to breaking away from destiny? I suppose Rock Lee is just going to stay a failure because he was destined for it.

2) This is no longer a world of ninjas. This is a world of superheroes. Naruto being the 9 tails Jinchuriki has access to near limitless chakra which makes him too strong. Sasuke/other Uchihas have the now extremely overpowered Sharingan (which at first if you remember a long time ago was a Kekkei Genkai that allowed you to copy other ninjutsu and predict the opponent's movements). It has now evolved into a Cyclops X-men sort of thing where you can produce fire from Hell wherever you look, make Susanoo (which everyone seems to have except Kakashi. Poor Kakashi.) or do crazy genjutsus. When have you seen Naruto or ANYONE (any important character, that is) actually use ninjutsu tags or seals with their hands??? I don't remember the last time that ever happened. People just have crazy super powers now. That's why all the other supporting characters, Team Asuma, Team Gai, etc. have all faded away. They're just not strong enough.

3) Naruto literally became best friends with the 9 tails. The whole series, the 9 tails was literally an uncontrollable monster only lending Naruto his power when he was on the brink of death. But in a span of like 4 chapters they became BFFs. And it's revealed he had a childhood and actually cared for Naruto all along. Wow. If he dedicated an arc for Naruto to break through to the 9 tails, this would have been a lot better. But he literally went from a monster to a domesticated house pet. Like look at that last chapter. He called himself a sexy beast. Really?

4) Madara/Obito are TOO strong. Madara has always been strong as the lead Uchiha, but an unbreakable Edo Tensei made him too strong. The living Kages suck (because they're not Naruto of course) and Obito is now basically a God. Their only hope is sage mode, but you know that won't work. It's not flashy enough for Naruto.

There's a lot more I despise about Naruto right now but this is all I could think of. lol.

Wholeheartedly agree you with on most of the points, if not all that you've raised. Kishimoto is just dragging this for profit, in my opinion but the animé is still bearable. But the "world of superheroes" is just spot on. Akatsuki members like Hidan now seem like dust compared to Madara who popped out of nowhere.

And let's not forget that anyone important truly dies. Just saying. What the hell is Karin still doing here? She was trespassed in the heart and had the sudden realization that Sasuke was a psycho and 20 seconds later is just "oh, nevermind"? Not to mention Tsunade got bisected; you know, nothing big

Karin was wasted potential, like so many other things in Naruto. They actually had a good potential side story for her. She's a Uzumaki, she fell in love with Sasuke at the Chunnin exams after he saved her (Which is no where near as shallow as the Sasuke Groupies reasons) years later she finally gets to meet Sasuke again and be highly useful for Sasuke's new team, Sasuke sacrifices her to kill Danzo, but rather then try to save her after doing the damage he tries to finish her off and would have if Sakura hadn't come. She then goes to hate Sasuke and is taken to Konoha, and once Sasuke finds her again and simply says, he's sorry, she reverts back to her crush on him in full swing, thus making her the worst Sasuke groupie in the series. They probably should have just killed poor Karin off, at least then her death would have looked more tragic compared to the joke she is now.

One thing I did want to see with Karin was maybe telling Naruto more about the Uzumaki clan if she had any info on them. That would have made for a interesting chapter.

Moon/Glovehead Berlitz! Make it a reality for a Berlitz reunion celebration!

Thing is I wasn't even defending Naruto. I mean with every Shounen manga there is only so much you can do. In One Piece, it appears that if you don't have a devil fruit or are either Zoro or Sanji, then you'll get destroyed. Same thing happened in Bleach. If you weren't named Ichigo then you might as well not even try.

In retrospect, I could have handled this nicer. Sorry.

BUT, regarding your last comment, have you seen Usopp fight? He has no abilities whatsoever, relies on his tools and wit to fight. He can handle himself, even in the New World. In One Piece, characters are actually challenged and forced to grow. Characters lose. Pre-timeskip Luffy realized he and his crew were nowhere near strong enough to survive so they spent time training. Naruto did the same thing earlier, but he gained his massive powerboosts AFTER the timeskip. With little to no effort, either. In Naruto, if you're not Naruto, you will lose. I Bleach, if you're not Ichigo, you will lose. I agree. But in One Piece, if you're not Luffy you still can win.

Originally Posted by SharpedoX

And let's not forget that anyone important truly dies. Just saying. What the hell is Karin still doing here? She was trespassed in the heart and had the sudden realization that Sasuke was a psycho and 20 seconds later is just "oh, nevermind"? Not to mention Tsunade got bisected; you know, nothing big

And then you have characters who die for absolutely NO REASON [spoiler]Neji[/spoiler]
Honestly that was the dumbest thing ever. Asuma's death at least had a lot of meaning and consequence, I feel like Kishimoto just did Neji in to let one of the major characters die just cuz.

Uh, have you read One Piece? Almost every single character in that manga has a creative, unique ability. I mean there are abilities in that manga that Kishi wouldn't even think of creating for his characters in Naruto simply because I think he lacks creativity. I don't mean to compare One Piece and Naruto (I like the latter more anyway), but One Piece's author knows how to be creative with his characters' abilities. That's one of the things that keeps the story fresh.

The abilities in Naruto are often boring imo. I mean just look at Naruto. He has like a hundred Rasengan variations and it gets tedious seeing him use only those moves. The only characters who have interesting jutsu in this manga are people who have the Sharingan, but only because they can pull all sorts of jutsu from their behinds without training.

I have read One Piece, and I can name many characters in One Piece who's abilities are not as creative or unique as you think. We could compare the manga for days, but the thing is we can only say which one we like more because in the end there is no better one. Both manga have been super successful and will continue their success long after their ends just like Dragon Ball.

The Sharingan has become ridiculous, yes, but it was already kinda ridiculous from the beginning. I mean being able to predict the movements of your opponent? Copying any Jutsu that's not a Kekkai Genkai? Seeing Chakra isn't that bad because all Dojutsu can see Chakra.

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Originally Posted by Sidewinder

While it is very reminiscent of a lot of journey trainer fics, it held my attention. It stands out among a lot of the other fics I've read lately and I'm excited to continue the story.

The Sharingan has become ridiculous, yes, but it was already kinda ridiculous from the beginning. I mean being able to predict the movements of your opponent? Copying any Jutsu that's not a Kekkai Genkai? Seeing Chakra isn't that bad because all Dojutsu can see Chakra.

It started that way, but eventually became a non-factor. It was almost like it was there only to serve as a reason for Sasuke's strength beyond natural talent until it became broken like it is now. Now, if you don't have some advanced eye technique or the backing of Kishi and his god pen, you are nothing.

I prefer OP, because at least it establishes every character and their motives before throwing them onto the scene in a way that alienates all the other characters.

I have read One Piece, and I can name many characters in One Piece who's abilities are not as creative or unique as you think. We could compare the manga for days, but the thing is we can only say which one we like more because in the end there is no better one. Both manga have been super successful and will continue their success long after their ends just like Dragon Ball.

The Sharingan has become ridiculous, yes, but it was already kinda ridiculous from the beginning. I mean being able to predict the movements of your opponent? Copying any Jutsu that's not a Kekkai Genkai? Seeing Chakra isn't that bad because all Dojutsu can see Chakra.

The Sharingan was always ridiculous, yes but to a extent. It had limits and sometimes it depended on how good the user was. Sasuke was easily beaten by Rock Lee, because he wasn't skilled at it and Lee's strict Taijutsu were hard to copy. Then we have guys like Zabuza and Gai/Guy who found ways to fight around the Sharingan by not looking their opponents in the eyes. So the Sharingan was powerful, but not unbeatable. Unlike it's numerous evolved forms that can set you on fire that can't be put out or make you invincible to nearly everything.

Moon/Glovehead Berlitz! Make it a reality for a Berlitz reunion celebration!

The Sharingan is way OP imo. Actually, I think it's one of, if not the most overpowered ability in manga outside of pure invincibility. Summoning skeletons that can defend against almost any attack, fire that burns forever, killing someone just because they looked into your eyes and don't even get me started on Izanagi. And the abundance of them too.

The Sharingan is broken imo, but I'd be willing to overlook that and all the other hax jutsu if the Part 2's pacing was better. I mean Part 2 started off well enough with the Rescue Gaara arc even if Sakura/Chiyo vs. Sasori took like a dozen chapters to resolve, but the Sasuke and Sai arc that came after it was a mess. It took like ten chapters for the arc to get to the good part, then it was just Naruto vs. Orochimaru and it ended in a draw. Then they finally met Sasuke again and the fight was only like a couple of chapters long and the arc ended with nothing accomplished. That was the worst arc of the series. And don't get me started on this war. The plot has been all over the place and it's not at all consistent.

The Sharingan is broken imo, but I'd be willing to overlook that and all the other hax jutsu if the Part 2's pacing was better. I mean Part 2 started off well enough with the Rescue Gaara arc even if Sakura/Chiyo vs. Sasori took like a dozen chapters to resolve, but the Sasuke and Sai arc that came after it was a mess. It took like ten chapters for the arc to get to the good part, then it was just Naruto vs. Orochimaru and it ended in a draw. Then they finally met Sasuke again and the fight was only like a couple of chapters long and the arc ended with nothing accomplished. That was the worst arc of the series. And don't get me started on this war. The plot has been all over the place and it's not at all consistent.

My favorite arc in Part 2 was the Hidan and Kakuzu arc. Even though Naruto came and saved the day, at least he didn't use some crazy powerup from the Kyubii, he was in training. And Shikamaru was totally awesome back then.

This war is terrible. The zetsu army would have been enough if Kishimoto made them stronger or near invincible, he wouldn't need the Edo Tensei. I hate how he brought back characters who already had closure (Asuma, Zabuza, Haku, Chiyo...) and just gave them an even worse death. Also doesn't it irk anyone how Kabuto was able to find all the bodies of people who have been important in past arcs? Isn't that kind of a coincidence? Like seriously if he brought back a random guy from 100 years ago who was strong, that'd be better but he brought back people who all knew Naruto and his friends... so dumb...

Also doesn't it irk anyone how Kabuto was able to find all the bodies of people who have been important in past arcs? Isn't that kind of a coincidence? Like seriously if he brought back a random guy from 100 years ago who was strong, that'd be better but he brought back people who all knew Naruto and his friends... so dumb...

Well, Kabuto knows Naruto so it's not too much of a stretch. What I find odd is he did this all relatively quickly and no one knew of it either. You'd think the bodies of your past leaders would be guarded a little better.

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Originally Posted by Sidewinder

While it is very reminiscent of a lot of journey trainer fics, it held my attention. It stands out among a lot of the other fics I've read lately and I'm excited to continue the story.

Kabuto probably knew about them and where their remains were due to all the time he spent as a spy in the various villages. That of course is presuming that it was him who really got them, instead of Orochimaru. Anyway, the war and Edo Tensei are minor in my opinion compared to the crap we got with the whole Tobi is really Obito “surprise”.

A soul that cannot be saved drifts and disappears,
In the instant it vanishes, it shines faintly,
Now, it creates a night with a full moon.

Well, Kabuto knows Naruto so it's not too much of a stretch. What I find odd is he did this all relatively quickly and no one knew of it either. You'd think the bodies of your past leaders would be guarded a little better.

Meh. I just looked at a list of people he brought back. It's not entirely Naruto centered so whatevs I guess. But still Kishimoto doing Edo Tensei in the first place just steps all over these characters' closures. And I agree with your last bit. I feel like they should have been a bit harder to obtain...

Originally Posted by TsukiMirage

Kabuto probably knew about them and where their remains were due to all the time he spent as a spy in the various villages. That of course is presuming that it was him who really got them, instead of Orochimaru. Anyway, the war and Edo Tensei are minor in my opinion compared to the crap we got with the whole Tobi is really Obito “surprise”.

I mean we all expected it... had our theories. Kishimoto does the expected and does a huge "reveal" as if we didn't already know lol.

Kabuto was a good villain before he went and raided Orochimaru's closet. Imo Kishi ruined him by making him Orochimaru 2.0 and I'm honestly surprised that Kabuto didn't scalp Orochimaru and use his hair as a wig because he was so obsessed with him that it almost rivaled Naruto's obsession with Sasuke. Kabuto literally went from evil genius sidekick to stalker fan.

Well, Kabuto knows Naruto so it's not too much of a stretch. What I find odd is he did this all relatively quickly and no one knew of it either. You'd think the bodies of your past leaders would be guarded a little better.

Wonder if the new policy involving the death of mind-numbingly all-powerful leaders of nations will now be cremation? :P

Imo Kishi ruined him by making him Orochimaru 2.0 and I'm honestly surprised that Kabuto didn't scalp Orochimaru and use his hair as a wig because he was so obsessed with him that it almost rivaled Naruto's obsession with Sasuke.

I wish this actually happened because that's really creepy. Plus Kabuto has a perm.

Ugh, another chapter where almost nothing happens. Sure Naruto and Minato's plan helped teleport everyone out of Obito's barrier, but most of the chapter felt redundant, especially those flashbacks. I'm at least glad that we learned that Tobirama invented the Shadow Clone technique; I don't remember if that was stated before, but it was news to me.

Ugh, another chapter where almost nothing happens. Sure Naruto and Minato's plan helped teleport everyone out of Obito's barrier, but most of the chapter felt redundant, especially those flashbacks. I'm at least glad that we learned that Tobirama invented the Shadow Clone technique; I don't remember if that was stated before, but it was news to me.

I think it got mentioned in the very first chapter, but I could be wrong.