Am I apologizing for R* by saying that the multiplayer in GTA IV isn't finished and will tire for many people?

I've posted several times on the good and bad aspects to GTA IV:MP but put more words here about its deficiencies.

Reading your post is depressing. What it sounds like you want to commit suicide because a company put in DRM into the software they sell and because a keyboard driver apparently calls home. Instead of blocking it on your firewall/router, just jump off a cliff. Much easier. Then we don't have to read your irate and self righteous posts!

Just kidding of course. Lighten up man. Please. They are just games... To be enjoyed.. Or not. Its not that serious. Find another hobby, or something. I can't help you.

Is it just me or is LittleMe some kind of apologist? I swear the guy defends every stupid thing a game publisher does.

And as to having crap installed on your system, I think it's bullshit. I've spent many years cleaning crap off of peoples systems, "just one more process", just one more app tray peice of shit.

I've bought a few games off of steam, but cracked them. My system is a piece of shit, I don't need more garbage running in the background.

Even Adobe has a service running now, just so you can load a PDF file on the off chance you actually need to. I use Foxit, why do I need that fucking process running in the background.

If Net 3.5 and two separate social networking apps bring value to a measly fifty dollar game, fine. But to me it's a single player game.

People that just use their PC's games and reformat don't give a shit. Some of us have a gazillion apps installed and everyone of them thinks that their special, they can 'call home', install a service, an app tray icon and constanly run in the background.

If you add it all up, it adds up to your PC being owned by several different companies with no added value that I can see.

Even IBM keyboard drivers are calling home for fucks sake. A fucking keyboard driver.

I'll never be 'fine' or 'happy', or 'okay' about this bullshit. Ever. It pisses me off and what pisses me off more are the complacent retards that let these companies fuck them up the ass with this bullshit and pretend like it's not a big deal.

Actually, they're not pretending, they're just stupid idiots that don't have a clue. They're obviously rookie green children that are very young and don't know any better and just accept any cock up their assholes. It pisses me off that Joe Retard Public is so accepting of this bullshit.

Wow what a shocker! Putting 50+ hours into a game inside of a week and the game is wearing on you...gee I wonder why...

I've been gaming electronically for 30+ years now. 50 hours is nothing. Sure, there's some immediate fatigue of the game but the issues to which I speak go beyond that. I'm very well experienced enough to say that the GTA IV multiplayer will quickly tire for many. Its fun, but it's lacking depth that it needs to be a real classic. Maybe that will be modded in.

Um M19 and Dagok, it has been along time since HL2 but I remember that HL2 had a long load up time, not because of steam but if you remember it was becuase of that live action main menu screen. I remember there was a way to disable it so the load time was way faster, possible you have disabled it Dagok?

That's what I was saying in the last paragraph of post #14.

From the first week of release yes I had it disabled. There was a way to disable it in a specific file, but -dev command line should do it as well.

Um M19 and Dagok, it has been along time since HL2 but I remember that HL2 had a long load up time, not because of steam but if you remember it was becuase of that live action main menu screen. I remember there was a way to disable it so the load time was way faster, possible you have disabled it Dagok?

*sigh* Yes, I did. My post prior to this has an update with a real-world test.

Which you edited after the fact...which I was already responding to...takes awhile to respond as I'm at work.

And ya got me on the specs...another hazard of posting while at work.

Fact still remains that your first post WAS bullshit and you grossly over-exaggerated which you have now confirmed with specific info. Nothing takes 5 to 10 minutes to load. And I'm guessing we are to assume Crysis and GTAIV were being launched under Steam or were they retail stand-alone?

And you have also proved it most likely has fuck all to do with Steam and more a problem with the game itself as the ONLY game you mention having a problem with is HL2. Have you tried Verifying the Game Cache, Defragging within Steam, deleting the clientregistry.blob and launching Steam, re-downloading the files altogether or even doing the Command Line parameters I mentioned?

Lesson #1, don't bullshit about your problem. People are willing to help you solve the problem...but not when you exaggerate and lie about the symptoms.

For all we know you have a craptastic system with 6600 128mb, 512mb of RAM, and a P4 processor.

If your system takes "minutes" to load a game under Steam...that's not a problem with Steam, it's your system. And you first said 5 - 10 minutes. You still didn't clarify that to a more realistic problem. Most of the time when people have claimed "minutes" in the past, it's literally been 3o to 40secs, which is not unacceptable, depending on your system, or the specific game.

I honestly couldn't care less how it runs for you: if it's a hindrance to me in my experience, that's all that matters when it comes to how my games play.

Maybe if you weren't being a pompous ass, you could open your mind to troubleshooting the problem instead of just blaming it on Steam without thinking for half a second there is an incompatibility of some sort, a software or a hardware problem that is causing it.

So what games take "minutes" to load? You mentioned HL2. Have you disabled the 3D map for the Menu background to see if that speeds up the load? This would apply to Ep1 and Ep2, cant think of any others with it off the top of my head. It takes awhile to load with the 3D Menu backgrounds, which would be specific to the game, not caused by Steam. Any other games?

For HL2 you can use -dev and -novid as Command Line Parameters to disable the logo vids and 3D background map.

You are extremely over-exaggerating, or your computer sucks monkey balls.

Thanks, you must be sitting here looking at my computer. How could I possibly know what it does, eh? Please.

Steam *starts* quickly, yes. But when I launch a game and it takes minutes to get through the "preparing the start XYZ" then yes, that's an issue. I've had the same experience on my old system and the one I just built that I'm on now. It's not my computer.

Steam starts up in under 20 seconds for me.

I bolded the part you should pay attention to. Not everyone is you, nor has your system. I thought it was fairly clear that I was posting on MY experience with Steam and why I didn't like it. Note that I didn't say it's what you should think. I honestly couldn't care less how it runs for you: if it's a hindrance to me in my experience, that's all that matters when it comes to how my games play.

(EDIT-) Just for kicks, I ran Crysis, GTAIV, and HL2 just now. From clicking on the icon to getting to each one's ingame menu, Crysis loaded in under 15 seconds, GTAIV in about 35 seconds, and HL2/Steam took almost four minutes-- again, with the most time at the "preparing the launch..." window. Call my computer crap if you want, but seeing that big of a difference between a hog like Crysis and the Steam-laden HL2 does stick out in my mind and, I think, would warrant a grimace in Steam's direction in my experience].

Yes, it's not quite the 5-10 minutes I'd said, granted. But when one supposedly bloatware-laden game like GTAIV starts that quickly compared to Steam, I'm prone to notice. My only point was that GTAIV's loading/programs isn't as bad FOR SOME PEOPLE as a lot of folks seem to be having experience with.

I absolutely hate Steam for the simple reason that it usually adds 5-10 minutes of extra startup, loading, etc. to a game like HL2.

*cough* BULLSHIT

You are extremely over-exaggerating, or your computer sucks monkey balls.

Steam starts up in under 20 seconds for me. Games under Steam take no longer to start up than games not installed under Steam.

Games loading on the PS3/360 takes 2 to 3 times longer than just about any game on PC. GTAIV loads in about 30 seconds on my comp (despite having problems running at a consistent framerate) where it took well over a a minute, maybe even 2 to load on the PS3.

Unless I'm mistaken, though, there's a difference– keyloggers are made specifically for facilitating the stealing of information. Is there any indication that LIVE or SocialClub do that? Do they do the whole "anonymously send info back home" thing? I don't mind having to run a couple extra background processes, as long as the don't get in the way– I'm not going to write the game off simply because of that requirement. Of course if there's ever any indication that either one is stealing info then yeah, that'd be a different story.

To be fair, I wouldn't purchase any other game that required this much hoop-jumping and do agree it's on the crazy side. But since I don't own a PS3 or 360 and probably never will, I jumped on the chance to play one of my favorite series on the platform I can and have been pleasantly surprised on how well it runs, even with the extra install of stuff, considering how many issues I've read about it.

So far I see this situation as akin to in-game ads: lots of people complain about them, but I'd rather enjoy a fun game than simply writing it off because of an ad on a billboard that I'll never pay attention to anyway. Like I said before, if the extra couple programs don't harm my computer, don't steal info, and don't affect the game's performance, I'm okay with it to play a game I really want to play.

(It's interesting folks are comparing this to Steam and applaud the latter's existence– I absolutely hate Steam for the simple reason that it usually adds 5-10 minutes of extra startup, loading, etc. to a game like HL2. THAT is a perfect example of the "extra" software getting in the way of my enjoyment of a game.)

To each their own, of course. I still feel bad for the people having technical or software issues and feel a lot of them could've been avoided without the extra software or some more QA, but I don't think writing the whole game off is entirely fair.

Well after playing the multiplayer for at least 50 hours, mostly in Free Mode (anything goes) where people both coop and DM and drive around fight cops and goof off on the map, the game is wearing on me some. Here are a few of the many improvements it desperately needs, imo:

** Many more weapons** A better weapon acquisition system (you go to spawn locations for weapons)** Dedicated servers (current system screams consolitis)** A doubling in FPS, at least** More ways to customize multiplayer games** Much better server browser (though they aren't true servers)** A way to launch the game straight to the multiplayer games browser (current way is cumbersome and obscure)** Modding support** A couple of CTF modes

Still it is truly a fun game online. There is just a huge world to do all kinds of things. The radio stations are hilarious parody's. The licensed music is decent, but not outstanding.

InBlack, you are right. Its probably not worth the hassle right now.

What this game does is help me to realize how important open, non urban, areas do to help Battlefield 2 and the Project Reality mod. After a while it is wearing on me, a busy concrete world of buildings and roads. They've done a fantastic job in creating it though. So very 3D with high buildings, bridges and tunnels underground. This is NOT a flat game world but it was designed more for single player. It does work in multiplayer anyway but as a sort of bastard child than a the single player prodigy world it is.

Im having so much fun with Left4Dead right now, no way in hell am I considering doling out any cash for this overbloated and overhyped port. Im even considering aquiring a headphone + mike combo (gasp!) something totally against my old-school gaming senses.

Arguably GTA4 is a great game, but its simply not worth it all the hassle atm. Steam is the only DRM related application that I allow to run on my PC, and I do that simply because of the great service they provide.