Argentina 3-1 Mexico: technical quality shines through in an open game

June 27, 2010

The starting line-ups

A game that looked to be tense and tight, before two odd first half goals swing the game Argentina’s way. In the end, they deserved the victory.

Mexico made a few changes to the side which lost 1-0 to Uruguay, bringing back Efrain Juarez at right-back, and completely revamping the forward line, going for a combination of Javier Henandez and Adolfo Bautista. Argentina played their expected XI, with Nicolas Otamendi in ahead of Jonas Gutierrez at right-back.

Mexico changed their shape – tonight they seemed to play a cross between their regular 3-4-3 / 4-3-3, and a more orthodox 4-4-1-1 shape. Certainly, in the defensive phase of play they defended with two solid banks of four – but there was more fluidity when they had the ball, with the full-backs motoring forward and Rafael Marquez dropping into a deeper role.

The change in shape didn’t really work. In particular, it was disappointing to see dos Santos playing so deep. At times he was taking up positions you would expect of a right midfielder in a 4-4-2 – miles away from the Argentina defence. His pace and direct running could have been the biggest threat to Argentina’s backline, but despite showing good touches on the ball, he wasn’t able to influence the game in the final third of the pitch.

They also missed Efrain Juarez playing his energetic midfield role. Today he provided an outlet at right-back, but the central midfield duo of Marquez and Gerardo Torrado was too static, and didn’t put Javier Mascherano under enough pressure. Mexico lacked a real link player, a central threat playing between the central midfielders and the forwards. That is a fairly damning verdict on the performance of Bautista, who was completely anonymous and was removed at half-time.

Tevez thrives

The one benefit of the shape was that it kept Lionel Messi reasonably quiet, without the need for a specific man-marking job on him, as Greece tried in their final group match. Although he showed glimpses of imagination and created the first goal for Carlos Tevez, he failed to dominate the game to the extent that may have been expected up against the ageing Marquez-Torrado pairing.

Maxi Rodriguez and Angel di Maria both had decent games and got through a lot of running, generally starting central and moving wide when Argentina had the ball, but Maradona’s side’s main threat was coming through the centre. The width of those two players allowed Messi, Tevez and Higuain central roles, with license to drift around as they liked. In particular, this seemed to suit Tevez, and Mexico had real problems picking him up. His goal was clearly offside, but he had been a threat until the goal with darting runs in between the lines. Marquez was primarily concerned with Messi, and so Tevez had space to work in.

The main Mexican threat was coming from long shots, particularly from Carlos Salcido, who again provided a great attacking threat from the left-hand side. But Mexico were unable to retain the ball when it was played up towards the front players, and they missed their usual system of three forwards, which stretches the defence and would have dragged Argentina’s defenders around more.

The two first-half formations. Argentina are attacking the goal nearest the camera.

Second half

Javier Aguirre moved back towards his 4-3-3 for the second half by bringing on Barrera in a left-sided role, but the game was effectively over when Tevez smashed in the third from the edge of the penalty area. To his credit, Aguirre really went for it at 3-0 down, introducing Gulliermo Franco for Guardado, and playing a system with four genuine forwards. Argentina’s outside midfielders were forced to retreat and help double up with their full-backs, but there was still no threat from the centre of midfield. Mexico swung plenty of crosses into the box, but lack a true goalscorer, and all too often decent balls in were not taken advantage of because of poor (or too similar) runs from the forwards.

Hernandez got a goal back with a tremendous rising strike past Sergio Romero, but Argentina were fairly comfortable, and able to bring off Tevez, Rodriguez and di Maria, the three who probably got through the most running during the game. Argentina moved to a more traditional 4-4-1-1 – Juan Veron played the final twenty minutes and helped keep possession and spread the play, whilst Jonas played the final ten, and stopped the dangerous-looking Barrera (now on the right), allowing Heinze to play a more central role, where he made a couple of crucial clearing headers. Maradona and Carlos Bilardo continue to impress with their tactical decisions within games.

Conclusion

Mexico turned out as we expected – they kept possession well and played very attractive, fluid football, but were lacking at both ends of the pitch. Osorio’s error for Higuain’s goal was unforgivable, and they failed to test Argentina’s defence with pace or direct running until the final half hour. They have been fascinating from a tactical viewpoint, but ultimately lacked quality against both Uruguay and Argentina.

Argentina’s shape looked more structured than in previous games, with the two wide players performing their jobs particularly well in a defensive sense. Messi didn’t have his best game, and probably feels slightly hampered by having Tevez directly ahead of him – playing just off Higuain seems to be his preferred role.

Defensively, Argentina still haven’t really been examined properly. They dealt well with the late pressure from Mexico, particularly with crosses played into the box, but then you’d expect that with the solid, rugged defenders in their backline. They’ll struggle more against pace, movement and fluidity – surprisingly lacking from Mexico today – so the Germany game should be fascinating.

73 Responses to “ Argentina 3-1 Mexico: technical quality shines through in an open game ”

Pin Pon on June 28, 2010 at 2:25 am

I disagree. Argentina did not play any type of collective football. Their play was horrible. They relied in two mistakes and one brilliant individual play. It is true that Mexico lacked the attitude to come back after that massive mistake by the ref but I think in this case it can be attributed to the replay being shown in the stadium. I think Argentina will be no match for Germany.

It is not a problem if Jose Mourinho played defensive football against Guardiola’s Barcelona which consists of amazingly creative and incredibly talented players like Iniesta-Xavi-Messi,
It is easy to comprehend why King Otto implemented a defensive football in 2004 with only Zagorakis or Charisteas as star players in his disposal,

but when you have Carlos Tevez, Gonzalo Higuain, Lionel Messi, Sergio Aguero, Javier Pastore, combined in one team and still playing such horrible and stupid football, and against the team that was never considered a favorite from the start of the World Cup’s campaign?

It’s the win that matters, of course. But playing like bunch of sissies like that was not how the way you win with a team that is crammed with high-flair and supreme force in attack. Even Brazil, which is said to be playing with counter attack only with Kaka-Fabiano-Robinho spearheading the strategy, played better than this.

For the greatness and fairness of football, Germany should trash Argentina in the quarter final without mercy. Oh I (and most of the football pundits, except Argentina fans of course) would really love to see it. Teach and show them how to play football, Germans.

Rajesh on June 28, 2010 at 9:39 am

Even in 2006, after having a great first round, Argentina played ordinary against the Mexicans. But in the quarter, they were good and were the much better team than Germany, except for those stupid substitutions.
I do agree, Argentina was pretty ordinary yesterday. But I doubt, Argentina clearly seems to know how to take care of Mexico and they can do it without that much of a hard work.
If you will watch the game again, you can see that Messi was the main man for Argentina in the beginning and once they realised that he was being targeted like anything by Mexico, they just decided to be quite with Messi.
I really hope the above is true. Because they need to be in their best for the next game, if not, they will have it badly.

Joe on June 28, 2010 at 2:27 am

Argentina was the better team for sure, but if
youre gonna put an Italian ref for an Argentina game,
you might as well use an Argentinian ref…

Aguirre is an idiot, we could have taken the game with a better line-up (and less bad luck)

So dissapointing.

Osorio has been a joke as a centreback for the past months, but Aguirre seems blind, and Bautista starting was unbelievable.

I do have hope for Brazil 2014 though, go Mexico!

Big Baller on June 28, 2010 at 8:12 pm

spot on!

dropbear on June 29, 2010 at 3:40 am

…the mexican goalkeeper also contributed heavily to the first (the offsite one) and second goal… when coming out of his goal why did he stopp half way and kneed down still 1.5 m away from Higuain???? … both (Osorio and Perez) gave it away…what presents from Mexican defense and from the referee ….one of the most disappointing games of the tournament so far….

Javii on June 28, 2010 at 2:36 am

It was a complete shock to see Bautista in the starting lineup. It would have been really interesting to see what they would have been able to do with their typical 3 forwards instead.

Gustavo Carnesella on June 28, 2010 at 3:07 am

Bad tactics from Javier Aguirre. Mexico played so well in previous games, despite the technical lacking of Franco and the physical state of Blanco. So for this game, he puts Bautista in, who really did nothing right. If you gonna trust a veteran, trust your best one, Blanco. Maybe things would go better with Giovani dos Santos and Barrera from start, just behind Chicarito Hernandez. This would be a good game for offensive, pacey wingers, since the argentinian full-backs are truly defenders. But, of course, the mexicans can’t make such crucial mistakes in front of Tevez, Messi, Higuain, etc.

I suppose the idea was to get Dos Santos and Guardado beginning their penetration from deeper – plus adding numbers to the midfield off-ball, so Argentina didn’t overrun them. But as ZM notes, it backfired as Torrado and Marquez weren’t an effective central-pairing for this task, and Bautista was useless.
Fair play in one sense to Aguirre. He was bold enough to design a gameplan tailored to cork the opposition’s. But it goes down as a tactical failure, irreversible by the time he switched things. That fine line between genius or dunce is as skinny as ever though.

Víctor on June 28, 2010 at 3:16 am

Why did Aguirre play with Adolfo Bautista? That’s the real wonder for sure since Bautista has never played in a World Cup and, honestly, is a very bad player… in fact, he shouldn’t have been in the Mexican squad at all.

Perhaps he did play to lose? That’s the only thing I can come up with. And he had to justify taking Bautista over Jonathan Dos Santos… so, maybe he saw this game as the opportunity to ‘justify’ that controversial decision.

Either way, disappointing Mexican side. Sure thing, the referee stabbed us, however, Mexico didn’t really play good. They possessed the ball? Yes, we did. How many real opportunities we did create? No many for sure. This game kinda reminded me the Inter vs Bayern Munich match in the UCL final. We didn’t deserve to pass to the next round.

Big Baller on June 28, 2010 at 8:14 pm

There are only 2 somewhat illogical reason.

1. Corruption of FMF and Jorge Vergara
2. His outstanding moments of glory 4 years ago against Boca Juniors where the stadium basically rioted and Boca fans, and coaches spit on him, and the game was abandoned.

Hazzy on June 28, 2010 at 3:35 am

Playing Di Maria leaves Argentina’s midfield very unbalanced. Hienze had to punt the ball upfield numerous times just because there was no one in the middle that wanted the ball. With Riquelme, Argentina would have been a far serious force at this world cup.

It was not the best of performances from them and they do need to fix the midfield before they get found out. Great performance though from Tevez and I thought Higuain played really badly.

Anonymous on June 28, 2010 at 6:06 am

I have some difficulty in understanding the off-side rule. Tevez clearly was off-side when the ball was played to him. But when he headed the ball, we can watch in slow motion that the two defenders were ahead of him, making him on-side. What does the rule state?

Víctor on June 28, 2010 at 7:08 am

It says that what matters is the positioning when the ball is passed, not when the player receives it. That’s why forwards can receive the ball in clear advantage against the goalie, because when the through pass was made, they were “on-side”…

Two wrong decisions at one day. FIFA has to think about technology. An extra referees will only be one more person who doesn’t see it (or doesn’t open his mouth). they heve the fourth referee, they have a TV screen. Why not using it? did the ball cross the line? was he off side? was it a hand ball?
technique makes life easier for the referee. the last thing we need is a jury decision like: 2 against 3, he was not off-side.

But FIFA wants “emotions”, I want fair games and the truth.

Robert Gomm on June 28, 2010 at 8:25 am

Mexican fans must be so frustrated, five World Cups in a row they’ve been knocked out in the round of 16.

Víctor on June 28, 2010 at 2:46 pm

We should be, but the general consensus is “well, at least we are always in the best 16″, “we play good but we always lose”, “at least Argentina didn’t have it easy”… what a mediocre mentality.

Big Baller on June 28, 2010 at 8:22 pm

The Mexican mentality is a complex thing, people can write dissertations and publish novels on this subject and have indeed. The lack of success on a collective level in both sport and society weighs heavily for a soccer mad nation.

I am not so sure Mexican fans have much say these days. In a way they are complicit in all this drama. They fell for the populism of Aguirre and have spent thousands and thousands of dollars supporting this team. The Mexican Federation is one of the wealthiest federation on the planet with 100 million in the coffers allegedly.

On the other hand, anytime you lose to Argentina it’s a mixed bag, rivalry, cultural similarities and differences.

The bottom line is that most fans feel Aguirre is an idiot and he wasted a lot of great young talent on old farts like Guille, Perez, Bofo, Blanco etc…

At the expense of the young guns.

Sal on June 28, 2010 at 9:02 am

I don’t understand why Di maria is played in midfiels, he is most effective at the wings. Messi is constantly marked by 3 players at the same time, a victim of his own success.

Demichelis got turned way too easily for Hernandez’s goal. I wrote an article highlighting all his errors in this world cup. He is a disaster waiting to happen.

MadJukes on June 28, 2010 at 9:44 am

Not a very good match in my opinion. I think the non-call on the offside and the inexplicable giveaway goal by Osorio overshadowed much of the match and made it hard to legitimately evaluate the two teams tactically.

It was also inexplicable why Aguirre started Bautista. Bautista can be a solid offensive midfielder but he is definitely not suited to playing the role Aguirre put him in today at all. Not surprising he was a non-factor. The thing is, Aguirre didn’t have many viable options from among the pool of strikers he brought to the Cup. I still don’t understand why Bautista and Alberto Medina and Guillermo Franco are at the Cup but Nery Castillo, Omar Bravo and Miguel Sabah aren’t. They aren’t the youngest or flashiest of players but I think Mexico would have been able to convert a lot more of their opportunities if they had made better team selection decisions. Hernandez and Guardado should have started every single match. All in all, Aguirre made a lot of horrendous managerial decisions. Unfortunately, I don’t know if there is anyone out there who could effectively replace him (see Erikson’s recent tenure).

One more thing: I agree completely that Salcido was one of the better players for Mexico in this tournament. He opened up so many opportunities, the tournament would probably have gone much worse without him for the Mexican side. I think he is under-appreciated.

Aguilera on June 28, 2010 at 9:53 am

Maybe Bautista was not the best option but I think you are not being fair with Aguirre. I think his plan was to put Bautista over Mascherano in order to unable him to start Argentinean playing. That was a succesful move until Tevez first (in THAT offside position) scored. Argentina had to rely on Heinze and Otamendi to take the ball out of the defense line, that made Messi dropped too deep, I think that if Germany finds a way to block Mascherano, Argentina will be in troubles.

JJ on June 28, 2010 at 10:21 am

Everyone was surprised to see Bautista in the starting XI, but for me, the biggest upset was seeing AZ Alkmaar’s Moreno out of the lineup, and worse yet, having Osorio cover that position instead. I was hoping that Marquez could be that 2nd center back next to Rodriguez, leaving Juarez and Guardado flanking Torrado in the midfield, moving from box-to-box permanently. Instead, Aguirre leaves the right-back with the crucial responsibility of covering Tevez. Osorio seemed nervous because of this from the very beginning, I swear I could see his legs shakes at times. The Mexican coach also left CB Magallon unused, had who played most of the qualifying matches in good fashion.

I didn’t understand the Juarez-Dos Santos and Salcido-Guardado tandems on the sides; it seemed to me that the fullbacks were too busy moving up the field, and the attacking midfielders spent more time pressing Maxi and Di Maria, respectively. Bautista seemed strangely attached to Mascherano as well, trying to prevent him from distributing the ball, rather than launching some attacks himself.

A kind of disappointing match in the end, since Mexico basically buried itself with the second goal, and while the first was in fact an offside, I think Perez had a good chance of keeping the ball, instead it bounced of his elbows/knees. This caused Argentina to play a more conservative game afterwards, not caring about Mexico recovering its usual pace (which they did, but resulted in only 1 goal scored). A fair win in the end as you say, simply because Argentina made more goals (in less chances too).

steve on June 28, 2010 at 11:08 am

‘A fair win in the end’

‘In the end, they deserved the victory’

These comments are ridiculous. The game was a tight affair until the first ‘goal’ went in. How can you say what happened ‘in the end’ was deserved when it followed on from something so completely undeserved? It’s not Argentina’s fault but it’s impossible to say they were deserved winners, when the crucial, game-changing first ‘goal’ was given to them so unjustly.

We’ll never know what would have happened had the correct decision been made, but I can’t imagine Osorio making the same mistake at 0-0. Mexico understandably lacked concentration, focus and discipline after the injustice. Had England suffered a similar injustice in a game which was as evenly contested as this one (Germany should have been 4 goals up when Lampard’s shot went over the line), there would be absolute outrage. If Argentina go on to win this World Cup, it will be forever tainted and I blame Blatter for that, not Argentina

I agree, it’s easy to say “In the end, they deserved the victory” when the public’s favorite took the win. But what if it was the other way around and a World Cup title contender lost to these non-deserved circumstantial goals, all after a horrible miscall by the judge.

No big deal huh.

charlie_m on June 28, 2010 at 11:03 am

If England’s central-mid pair (Barry and Lampard) couldn’t get to grips with Khedira-Schweinsteiger-Ozil, how is Mascherano going to do it on his own?

You can conceptualise Argentina’s shape as a diamond (suggesting central numbers) but until Veron came on Mascherano looked conspicuously on his own in deep midfield areas throughout the match (Di Maria and Maxi played quite wide). Germany can exploit this.

NiWa on June 28, 2010 at 12:33 pm

I’d very much expect Veron to start against Germany, but guess we will have to see.

After the hustle and bustle, pace and quick breaks of Germany’s demolishion job on England I was looking forward to a more esoteric and technical game with losts of nice movement and excellent passing. I was throughly disappointed. This was a dire game in most respects with both sides failing to play in anything resembling a coherent system. If I was German I would be licking my lips at the prospect of playing Argentina if they keep this system.

I am a huge fan of Maradona as a man and I really would like him to win this World Cup but I think he, and his staff, do not really have a system that is likely to challenge the best in this tournament. As charlie_m above states there is no way Mascherano is going to be able to look after the movement of Germany’s midfield three all on his lonesome. And are Di Maria and Maxi really centre midfielders?

I keep watching Argentina and they keep winning but I think this is helping them to overlook thier major flaws. Am I the only one who thinks that both his players and his system are completely wrong? I cannot for the life of me understand why Veron was left out against Mexico, I just do not understand why Higuain (Argentina’s answer to Andy Cole) is selected ahead of Milito, is Tevez really better than Ageuro?, Should Messi be played so deep as become much less effective in front of goal? I think Messi is quite clearly the most talented player in the world but I do not think he is a No. 10; like someone above I would love to have seen Riquelme there and Messi on the left or right.

If I had to pick a system and team from Argentina’s squad I would do so as follows in a 4-2-3-1:

————–Romero

Burdisso—-Dimichelis—Samuel——–Heinze

————Mascherano—-Veron

Messi————-Aguero———-Di Maria

——————Milito

I think that would be a team to cause Germany some serious problems.

NiWa on June 28, 2010 at 12:39 pm

Just wanted make a small comment regarding Maradona. It was comically to see the media riding the “Maradona is crazy” stereotype. The reason why I personally have the utmost respect for him is that he is first and foremost a big fan of football and of course his national team. He was there in 2006 in the stadiums in Germany, at every Argentinian game, cheering, dancing, celebrating. This man loves football, I wish more former players would show this kind of passion in them when they are not being employed to do so.

The next one I can see coming back in to football in a similar fashion is Zidane – you can also see him watching plenty of games, despite his nations side playing so poor. He loves football and will be back sooner or later, and it will be for the better of France (or heck Algeria).

I agree with the sentiment that Veron needs to start against Germany, we will see what the coaching staff decides.

Regarding Tevez I believe Aguero is the better natural winger but Tevez fighting spirit has been tremendous so far, I would keep playing him judging by his performances.

I agree with everything you say there about Maradona. I always thought he was a great guy but seeing him with his squad and the way that he seems to kick every ball with his players is a joy to watch.

I would love to see him win the thing as I am pretty sure he will live up to his promise to run through the streets of Buenos Aires naked!

I know that Tevez has talent and that he works very hard and that the goal he scored yesterday was great but but but…I just do not like him. He is limited technically and seems to lack football nous. I would also agree with ZM here that he is also having the effect of negating the role of Messi, which seems a little silly. Saying that I think the real problem with Messi is that Maradona is playing him in the “Maradona” postition, which does not suit him. However good Messi is he ain’t no Maradona.

Emilio on July 2, 2010 at 8:45 pm

Anyone who says Tevez is limited technically should really give up their PS3 and actually watch some football.

You can argue that from time to time he disorganizes the team with so much intensity, but he is a trully gifted player with an unfrequent workrate for someone as talented.

As for negating Messi’s role, that was a Maradona decision. Tevez should actually be the one bringing the ball from the midfield and Messi staying near the box, forcing fouls close to the goal or shooting more. The Mexican midfield stopped Messi at least 8 times with tactical fouls far from the defense with no major consequences. In addition, Tevez would help a lot to recover the ball in the midfield, where Argentina was outplayed by Mexico and would suffer against any team posting four or more midfielders.

hwk on June 28, 2010 at 3:23 pm

‘The reason why I personally have the utmost respect for him is that he is first and foremost a big fan of football and of course his national team.’

a great come back. It’s good to have Maradona back in football as a person. I hope he will be around for the next years.
he risks something, but he always did that (i don’t know if Pele has that passion for the game), and Maradona loves the game.

I have to take issue with your team. Being a Barca fan I have no incentive to like Higuain, but he had a brilliant season and completely overshodowed some of Real’s ’super’ signings. His style of play also seems more compatible with Messi/Tevez and (even) Aguero.

Furthermore, why would you start Aguero in the centre and Messi on the wing? I’d swop them, if you insist on that XI. Then again, Messi will be too deep.

KabulBlue on June 28, 2010 at 9:16 pm

I think Higuain is a decent player (if only he was English!), but he does seem to need quite a few chances to put away those goals. Playing for Real and Argentina means that he get gets lots and lots of chances and as a result scores a number of goals. Milito on the other hand played for an essentially defensive Inter team and looked deadly.

Messi can operate as a false nine but I just like him playing nominally out wide and cutting in. He just seems so involved in the attacking phase playing there. Next season he is almost certain to be playing like this more frequently now that Barca have signed (one season late) David Villa.

KandaharRed on June 28, 2010 at 3:29 pm

Be sure you were not the only one disappointed, KabulBlue. In fact, as a follower of the Argentinian side I kept repeating for myself during large sections of the match: this bounch of good players are left to spontaneously find out by themselves what to do on the pitch. Of course it is not just like my simple football brain sees it but I think most will agree that the overall team performance after 90 minutes wasn’t good.

Therefore it was somewhat surprising to read ZM’s fairly positive, or at least critiqueless, assessment of Maradona/Bilardo (or whoever is thinking in the technical team) tactics, positioning of players on the ground, poor passing and almost total lack of structured/constructive playing. I am not sure how to understand it, but it can be that for a full-blown tactical mind like ZM’s the end result weighs by far the most. Having said this I should add that no advocacy of football purism (Menotti, Cappa) is intended and that I do love this site and ZM’s work.

Regarding Veron’s be or not to be, I would like to say that leaving Estudiantes followers aside the near consensus in Argentina is that this player, in his current outfit, is proficient in holding the ball and passing it but not particularly efficient in defense, lacking also creativity for forward playing. In other words, Veron is a neutral player, good for the task he was assigned when brought in leading 3-0 and twenty minutes to go, that is cool down the playing, improve ball possesion and safe passing. If the issue is to help Mascherano in containment duties, as it probably will be against the Germans, I would like to have Cambiasso in the roster.

You pose a number of interesting questions, some of them surely open for endless debate, for example Tevez vs Aguero or Higuaín vs Milito. What I am sure does not generate so much debate but outright perplexion or criticism is the insistence in playing Messi so deep in the field, as a number 10. Given the paucity of creative midfielders in the team one could partially figure out the (wishful?) thinking behind but, matter of fact, it doesn’t work. I wonder whether Maradona (perhaps with Bilardo in the background) is not being stubborn by persisting in reincarnating himself by pressing Messi to conduct the orquesta from a position that La Pulga may well learn to play for the next WC 2014 but a one that he can’t play today.

A lot to improve if this team is going to make it to the semifinals.

Liked your nick. Mine it is just one reply stand to highlight yours.

KandaharRed on June 28, 2010 at 3:38 pm

Just saw that in your reply to NiWa you took up what I call the “Maradona reincarnation” point. Well, we agree in that.

KabulBlue on June 28, 2010 at 9:27 pm

Hi Kandahar Red!

Thanks for your comments on my post. I am not an Argentina fan but I do enjoy watching your side and have never quite got over why they didn’t win WC 2006!

All of my praise for Maradona is in spite of the fact that he left both Cambiasso (wonderful player) and Zanetti (brilliant and timeless) at home. I know it was for team morale and that seems to be making sense but I wish they were both there.

I think I agree with the Argentinian population in that Veron is perhaps past his peak but I still love to watch him play. I think he will be crucial in the next game if only so that he can keep possession and move the ball on effectively. That there is no alternative (i.e. Cambiasso) means that there is no other choice in my opinion.

I did post those questions knowing that the debate is endless so it is good to know that these discussions are going on amongst your countrymen too. I am also pleased that I am not the only one who keeps wondering why Messi keeps picking up the ball near the centre circle!

p.s. I like the idea of the “Maradona reincarnation” – it is almost as if Maradona thinks that any player with Messi’s talent has to be some sort of clone of himself rather than a different, perhaps more modern, player.

KabulBlue on June 28, 2010 at 9:32 pm

I also would have loved to have seen Riquelme in the team/squad…was there any public movement to select him?

KandaharRed on June 28, 2010 at 11:06 pm

Indeed! Both public and from the media. To the extent that Maradona had to change gears and discreetly open the door for him. Riquelme declined by saying “we can’t work together”.

Regarding Messi and where and with whom he will play against the Germans, there are many in Argentina asking for either Aguero or Pastore, technical players that can associate with Messi starting and completing combinations with him. Tevez, with all his qualities, is definitely not so great for quick passing entering the penalty area.

Riquelme said he’d never played for Argentina under Maradona again, after some argument or something…

mlyons on June 28, 2010 at 1:57 pm

I know we don’t generally talk about goalkeepers much on this site, but did anyone else feel like Perez could have done a bit better on all three goals (and have a sneaking suspicion that Ochoa would have handled one or more of them)? I still haven’t heard a really compelling reason for why Perez was Mexico’s #1 in this tournament.

dropbear on June 29, 2010 at 3:55 am

..the referee helped Argentina, but Perez (and of course Osorio) were the grave diggers…Perez was far too slow when coming out of the goal and after Osorio’s blackout he stopped halfway and made it so easy for Higuain going around….

I thought it was really interesting how Messi played this game. Before the substitutions, he dropped quite deep and had a ‘playmaker’ role, as per usualy in the Argentina setu-up. With Barca, the midfield is sorted out thanks to Xavi/Iniesta and the holding player. Messi can drift in the final third and take defenders on. But here he has a different role, and often tracks back to help defend, or provid a ball into the final third.

After Tevez and co left, it seems like he was given license to troll for a goal up front. But, as he went further forward, no-one linked up and Mexico took control of midfield. It was a good illustration of why Messi cannot play the same role – in my opinion – since he serves as such a good link between the midfield and the strikers.

Having said that, it’s quite amazing how many shots he’s had on target from this deeper position, he must be setting some sort of record for ‘most shots on target without a goal’!

Kevo on June 28, 2010 at 3:33 pm

I agree, and i think everyone agrees that we all want to see Messi score at least one goal, because it’s about time (with so many shots on target) and he deserves it.

You can see in him that scoring isn’t his number one priority because he was assigned a more important role and frankly all he cares about is to play and participate in every action.

And you are definitely right, the reason why Messi can’t play in his regular position like in Barca is because he doesn’t have teammates that can feed him balls and so, he has to be the one linking the midfield with the forwards and bringing the ball to the final third.

It’s very interesting, if you go to the FIFA match cast and look at the ‘tactical line-up’ for Argentina at various points in the game. As the game wore on, Messi became less and less influential and saw less of the ball and, not surprisingly, this correlated with him moving further and further forward, ending up next to Higuain with the other 8 players very deep. Granted, by this stage a lot of subs had been mad and it seems like he was trolling for a goal. But still, no-one was connecting the front to the mid-field. Messi is forced to do this, and given how different it is from his usual role, he does it darn well. Just read some of ZM’s assessments of Barcelona games to see how different Messi normally plays.

Can anyone imagine how lethal a combination Messi and a good midfield must be?? Oh wait…

Big Baller on June 28, 2010 at 8:11 pm

It was a shocking night for Mexico, it’s die-hard supporters and young players who deserve much better. 5 World Cups in a row they are knocked out and 2x in a row to heated rivals Argentina.

One thing that was full on display for the entire world to see is that Mexico is by no means inferior to any team talent wise. You can go player for player and Argentina has a little bit extra quality but that’s it. However it all seems like a waste of talent in the end, particularly young talent.

Aguirre completely tarnished what was an honorable career, he had a nightmare.

Top ten reasons Aguirre failed Mexico tactically:
1. Barerra was superb and has top quality, there is no logic for not starting him, yet he did not start a single game all tourney. He would have been perfect as the 3rd forward replacement for Vela.

2. Guardado, rotted on the bench and was pulled twice at halftime. Arguably Mexico’s most complete young player.

3. Worst GK in the tourney at the expense of OCHOA!

4. Adolfo Bofo Bautista, the whackiest surprise start of the tourney. Enough said

11. CHICHARITO, best forward in ages for Mexico and got relegated to 15-20 minute shifts. Scores 2 amazing goals, and proves once and for all Aguirre was a dunce. 2 goals in 160 minutes of total play, that’s less than 2 full games–2 goals!

Total wasted opportunity. Argentina didn’t beat Mexico, Mexico beat Mexico with an assist from the linesman.

Well summed up, this is what entire Mexico has been saying since the WC starged.

JC on June 30, 2010 at 10:36 am

I was never sure why Juarez was moved from right back to midfield but from what ZM has been saying, apparently his energetic play helped link up the midfield to the strikers very well. I think Guardado could have done the job or even G.Dos Santos, not that Juarez didnt do a good job but in order to accommodate all the wingers the team had.

Imagine a Vela-Guardado-Dos Santos or Guardado-Dos Santos-Vela combination just behind Hernandez(or even wasteful Franco) or Barrera in either wing, Vela was definitely not on form and some of his better performances for Mexico have always been as an impact sub.I mean, better than trying Blanco or Bautista in that central position for sure.

steve on June 28, 2010 at 10:34 pm

that was 11! agree with you on pretty much all of them, although still think you’re ever so slightly too harsh on blanco and aguirre

Big Baller on June 28, 2010 at 10:49 pm

Thanks Steve. I forgot to add a couple of other points. I kid. I kid.

I am not down on Blanco, but I am down on Aguirre, whether his intentions were good, in the end he took some unnecessary gambles.

drfutballitis on June 29, 2010 at 5:09 am

i think for the german game, demichelis should move to a def. midfield position with Mascherano, and Burdissio and Samuel as CB.

or atleast Bolatti with Mascherano in mid., and drop Demichelis, who is just a terrible player.

Argentina deserved their victory over Mexico, they just switched off in the 2nd half.
Veron is too slow and terrible, Pastore over Veron any day.

amateur-analytic on June 29, 2010 at 6:53 pm

ZM (and others too if you have the information), where do you get those picures from high above the pitch? From the “tactical feed.”

Barca32 on June 29, 2010 at 6:59 pm

I’m amazed at the abuse that coach Aguirre is getting from the Mexico fans. How far do they think they could go in this World Cup with players who don’t know how to score?

I think Aguirre took Mexico as far as it could possibly go. Like Bielsa’s Chile, tactics could not compensate their technical limitations.

True that Tevez first goal was off-side, but Argentina could have scored 4 or 5 goals in that game. By the way, Tevez made a silly mistake by interfering with Messi’s rather weak shot while clearly off-side. It would have been Messi’s first goal in the World Cup and it would have spared us all this crying from the Mexico fans.

Mexico had possesion of the ball and didn’t know what to do with it. A team that cannot score simply doesn’t belong in the quarter finals.

Argentina beat Mexico playing at 50% of their game. They will need to be at 100% against Germany if they want to move on.

Big Baller on June 29, 2010 at 7:37 pm

Typical Argentinean arrogance.

Argentina for all their bravado have been known to melt down, turn on each other, incite bench clearing brawls, spit, choke etc…

I just wonder what would have happened if say Chicharito and Mexico got a gift from FIFA. 1-0. I have my doubts as to if Maradona would have kept his cool. He would still be staging press conferences.

If you had been following ZM, you would know Mexican fans were puzzled by Aguirre’s strategy to bench one of the most IN FORM players in the world Javier “El Chicharito” Hernandez.

Forgot to mention that Argentinean players, the starting keeper, candidly admitted during their press conference that he saw and heard, Argentinean players taunting, gesturing the Mexican bench about the FIFA gift, and as a result Heinze, Clemente, Otamendi nearly incited a bench clearing brawl due to their taunting, gesturing. Which would have embarrassed ALL LATIN AMERICAN NATIONS in the process.

And let’s not forget about Tevez’ admission that he knew he was offsides before the play happened, and afterwards said he could care less.

What a bunch of bull that fans of ARG all of a sudden act like they played at 50%. Lol

Barca32 on June 29, 2010 at 8:24 pm

I’ll ignore the insults since I’m not Argentinean. I am a big fan of Messi and Maradona though.

“Mexico had possesion of the ball and didn’t know what to do with it. A team that cannot score simply doesn’t belong in the quarter finals.

Argentina beat Mexico playing at 50% of their game. They will need to be at 100% against Germany if they want to move on.”

Good luck next time Mexico!

JC on June 30, 2010 at 10:15 am

Ghana and Mexico have the same amount of goals so I guess your point is wrong.

Obviously Argentina is the better team on paper but if you watched the game Mexico had the better chances, before the offside goal Argentina was anonymous and let’s be honest it could have been a different game if you take away those 2 free goals.

I wonder how Argentina would have reacted if Mexico had scored from an obvious offside goal and then the coaches and players saw the replay on the stadium’s big screen, not very pleased i would imagine,wouldnt have been surprised if Maradona would have run across the field to the side ref to protest and maybe even punched him.

Barca32 on June 30, 2010 at 1:08 pm

It’s just ridiculous to say “it could have been a different game if you take away those 2 free goals.”

There are no “free goals” in football. Errors are due to poor technique and pressure from the rival team.

Anyway, good luck next time. Although with that kind of mentality I doubt the result will be any different.

JC on June 30, 2010 at 4:16 pm

Fair enough, I can agree that Osorio’s mistake was due to technique and Argentina’s pressure, however, the events that followed the offside goal influenced the way Mexico played for the rest of the first half, and who knows maybe the opportunity would have never appeared for Osorio to commit an error had the goal be properly call offside.

I don’t know how you expect players to react after watching the replay and realizing the call by the officials was wrong, usually the replays are not shown to avoid these type of situations, it’s unfair to think they could have just bounced back specially being the underdogs in the match.

Carioca on June 30, 2010 at 11:44 am

Don’t mind the vitriol from Mexican supporters, Barca32. Fact is that you are spot on when you write “…a team that cannot score simply doesn’t belong in the quarter finals.” We have seen a number of those teams among the last 16. Cascades of ball movement, forward and backwards, right to left, forward again and…? Of course, when two of them meet, one got to advance to quarter final. We had an example yesterday, one that by no means invalidate your point. I call these teams football bureaucracies, like public servants moving papers from one pile to the next pile. For ages, Mexico has been a prime example of that phenomenon.

Big Baller on July 1, 2010 at 12:15 am

@Barca. Your delusional. Argentinos are known to be the dirtiest and worst losers. You obviously don’t watch much football other than little Barca highlights or play your video games with Messi as you player.

Who can forget Boca vs. Chivas, where they were so incapable of defeat down 4-0 on aggregate they had to riot in the Bombonera with their COACH spitting on Bautista among other players instigating this Palermo, Clemente, etc… Can you imagine this happening in Champion’s league in Europe.

Or let’s go back to Germany vs. Argentina 2006: Where guess who, Heinze starts a brawl in Berlin, after Germany sent them packing. Their impotence always gets the best of their temper and they make a mockery out of the sport.

Bad off-side calls are common in every World Cup, unfortunately. See Villa’s goal against Portugal today.

Notice also the difference in the reaction of the Portuguese vs the Mexican players.

JC on June 30, 2010 at 10:01 am

Villa’s goal wasn’t offside but good try

BA on June 30, 2010 at 3:17 pm

Wow, this is a terrific site; I can’t believe I only discovered it now.

I’m impressed by the ZM (and commenters’) analysis, so I’ll humbly ask for your input. I’m not that familiar with this German squad from a technical standpoint, so I’m curious about which Argentina lineup you all want and/or foresee. Demichelis is a liability in a game that has to be error-free. I’m concerned that Veron is much too slow for Germany’s youth and passing speed, and I feel like this could be Pastore’s time to shine. All Argentines know he’s capable. Di Maria was a real force on the flanks last time Argentina played Germany (and won), but given how isolated Mascherano was against Mexico, Bolatti might be a better call to assist. But then I worry that Germany will have free reign on the flanks, which they enjoy so much. What are your opinions, thoughtful readers who probably know more about this than me? I could see value in starting Di Maria, Maxi, Jonas, or even Clemente Rodriguez…(and certainly Milito, though I know that won’t happen).

I think I’d play Di Maria and Jonas either side, in roughly the same shape as against Mexico. But I haven’t thought abut it properly yet…

Tino on June 30, 2010 at 8:41 pm

Let’s hope Samuel is fit and Diego plays Burdisso with him instead of Demichelis. Clemente instead of Heinze sounds good to me if he’s showing a good form in training, which I don’t know. Clemente did look good against Greece, but no Müller-Özil-Lahm there.

About Bolatti and Pastore, I’d love to see them start, but it’s hard to know if they are ready for such a game. If so, I think Pastore-Messi have the potential to hurt Khedira-Bastian a lot. Schweinsteiger has been very good so far, but Sami Khedira has been a dissappointment for me, failing to track back opposition players and not contributing much with the ball.

As for Di María, he’s been doing the dirty job pretty well, I’d keep him in the left wing. His speed should keep Lahm way back. No Jonás for me, though.