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"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

Mark_C
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 21045
Loc: New York

Originally Posted By: LadyChen

Originally Posted By: Mark_C

Most movements of the Brahms Requiem.

What do you mean, *most* movements? Which one isn't??

Good question.And you're right.

But, one reason I put it as I did, was.....well, for example, look at Orange Soda King's post. (Which I assume was a joke.)Most of the next to last movement doesn't seem to me to fit with what we're talking about, although as I've said I still don't know what that really is.

“Of or pertaining to the intellectual and higher endowments of the mind; mental; intellectual.” (From Wikipedia)

But then individual tastes differ ... some loatheBach and Chopin but go dilly about "happy-clappy"from a pew ... others might question the criterion"higher endowments of the mind" depending on the parties involved.

For my own part there are times when even a cowboy wants to blubber ... it could be just a passage or perhaps the passion of the pianist ... recentlyDebussy's "La Mer" had me gasping for air with tear-filled eyes ... don't tell anybody else.

If we do not limit it to piano music, then I would say just about anything by Bach and Schubert is spiritual, resigned music. Late Beethoven(especially the string quartets and last five sonatas), Brahms late piano pieces, almost anything by Kurtag, and perhaps a few pieces by Chopin.. Although, in my opinion there is always a little bit of crime and conflict in Chopin, he never becomes completely "spiritual" and "wise" in the same way as Bach, Beethoven, Schubert and even Brahms.

I don't think you can define "spiritual" by saying what it is not. You need to be more precise by saying what you mean - if you know what you mean.

Just as beauty is often in the eye of the beholder - already often proven on this forum with similarly open-ended questions - if you don't provide your definition of "spiritual," you will get responses that range from the Goldberg Variations to "Good Night, Irene."

You need to be more precise by saying what you mean... if you don't provide your definition of "spiritual," you will get responses that range from the Goldberg Variations to "Good Night, Irene."

Maybe getting a wide range of responses isn't a bad thing? Maybe the OP's intent was less "let's arrive at a consensus on what spiritual music is", and more "what does 'spiritual music' mean to different people here-- let's see the variety of results".

[...]Maybe getting a wide range of responses isn't a bad thing? Maybe the OP's intent was [...] "what does 'spiritual music' mean to different people here-- let's see the variety of results".

-J

Then, perhaps, he should have said so.

- "Deep River" is a spiritual.- The fifth movement of Berlioz' "Symphonie fantastique" and Gluck's "Dance of the Blessed Spirits" are "spiritual" because they deal with spiritual beings (ghosts, witches, etc.).- Maybe "The Entertainer" is spiritual to some because it lifts their spirits.

and

"The Concert Spirituel was one of the first public concert series in existence. The concerts began in Paris in 1725 and ended in 1790[...]The series was founded to provide entertainment during the Easter fortnight and on religious holidays when the other spectacles (the Paris Opera, Comédie-Française, and Comédie-Italienne) were closed. The programs featured a mixture of sacred choral works and virtuosic instrumental pieces."

[...]Maybe getting a wide range of responses isn't a bad thing? Maybe the OP's intent was [...] "what does 'spiritual music' mean to different people here-- let's see the variety of results".

-J

Then, perhaps, he should have said so.

- "Deep River" is a spiritual.- The fifth movement of Berlioz' "Symphonie fantastique" and Gluck's "Dance of the Blessed Spirits" are "spiritual" because they deal with spiritual beings (ghosts, witches, etc.).- Maybe "The Entertainer" is spiritual to some because it lifts their spirits.

Well, "So...?" seems to imply that you think it's a rather pointless topic. Though it may be pointless, this is a forum. We're here to talk about whatever comes to mind. It doesn't have to be dense subject matter.

Sorry...I hate to butt in, but "seems to imply"? I don't know what his/her (sorry...your name *seems* clear but I shouldn't wish to assume.. ) intent with the "so" was, but, um...I'd hate to see someone anywhere from mortally offended to mildly affronted (yourself included...I mean, if s/he *did* mean as you say {which, I'm afraid to say, I'm not sure *was* the message}...well, then perhaps there might have been more tactful ways of putting it, but isn't it important to appreciate what others consider a "waste of time" and respect that? Maybe I'm wrong, but, um...we can't *all* be on board with *everything* and perhaps BruceD simply felt that his/her own opinion wasn't being represented enough and felt a tad chastised by your previous communications {as I'm sure both of you may have felt}...I mean, um, he came in to try and clarify "spiritual" which isn't truly, in and of itself, a bad thing {for people like Mark C}...and I don't mean to have a go at you But...I don't know, it's hardly my place but I just feel it'd be *so* easy for everyone to get along all the time...fool's hope, I know )...And BruceD...pretty much the same to you...but the other way aroun...you know Oh...and vagueness such as "so" breeds vague interpretation; people may fill in the blanks incorrectly if you're unclear...it's very...spiritual...Sorry for sticking my oar in Xxx

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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

A dialogue, discussion or even answers to the question don't seem to have any meaning when the term of reference is vague and possibly interpreted differently by many.

You're talking about requiring a reference point...but with abstract nouns and emotions it's quite difficult...see, there's nothing we can *point* to when we make the sound "spiritual"...um...that's why we have to settle on vague awareness of what's meant...I mean, what's sadness *precisely*? Distilling away all possible definitions to exclude anger, other negative emotions...the necessity to *define* or be lost to confusion isn't strictly true...I mean, um, spiritual; relating to the spirit in some way...so, not physical or mental but this other...stuffness that fills in the invisible cracks...frankly I think anyone'd have a hard time depicting such a notion...but does it *really* matter if we're talking about different things, as long as we're in the right area? The conversation isn't meaningless, I don't think; we just all get a different interpretation...a bit like music...please, um, I'd love some counter-positions to think on. I agree that the first post was a *tad* brief, but such is the way of the internet and, progressively, the world, unfortunately; it's not really anyone's fault...I don't think.X

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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3