You hardly see Giggs mentioned in the tabloids, but he has had the most outstanding career of any Premiership player. It's a shame he's Welsh.

Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:14 am

Ragnarok73

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

ed_metal_head wrote:

Liverpool take the crazy award though. And all that for one signing. They lost Torres so they went into panic buy mode. Who did they get? Andy Carroll. Normally he's not a terrible signing. He's young and has a decent goal scoring record. However, Liverpool paid 35 Million Pounds for Andy Carroll thus making him the record British signing. He's not even worth half of that. That's about how much Real Madrid paid for Luis Figo when he was one of the best players in the world. That's more than Chelsea paid for Sheva when he was one of the best strikers in the world. You want more recent? That's more than Barcelona paid for David Villa who is one of the best strikers in the world. It's much more than Man City paid for Edin Dzeko who has the same physical attributes as Carroll but has proven himself in other leagues. Yes, Andy Carroll has a nice scoring record this season but he's been playing at the top level for half of a season. He's also had some injury concerns in his short career, but more importantly he has assaulted teammates and members of the public and loves the nightlife. How Liverpool could spend so much money for an immature and unproven commodity is beyond me.

To address this: Carroll is talented AND he's young (only 20 years old). A young player who's talented will almost always be expensive, so Liverpool had little choice in the price (they initially offered 30 million pounds, which Newcastle rejected out of hand almost immediately). Next, Daiglish, one of the best managers ever in football, made the decision to sign him and Suarez. I'm going to put faith in his decision-making until it's proven to be faulty.

I admit that I'm skeptical about Suarez' signing given his behavior in the World Cup last year, but I also had skepticism about Kuyt's signing after 2006. Kenny must have seen something in Luis that I've missed aside from his skill.

Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:44 pm

ed_metal_head

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

Unke wrote:

There may be good reasons for both transfer fees (apart from the fact that, my opinion, English clubs generally overspend on transfers):

1. From 2011/2012 on (or a year later), UEFA's financial fair play rules will exclude all clubs from European competitions, which, roughly speaking, do not break even, i.e. transfers can't be financed by sugar daddies alone. If you want to spend big, you'll have to make big money, too. This is why clubs like Manchester City are spending like idiots at the moment - they'll have to make the big, money-losing transfers now. Could be the same for Chelsea. (Btw, Torres can be great, but best centre forward in the world? Naaah.)

2. Similarly, the English FA will introduce a so-called 'homegrown' rule, according to which a squad must contain a minimum number of players, who are eligible for England or who have come through the youth system of English clubs. Also, there are limitations on squad sizes (this might be a UEFA rule, though). This will make 'homegrown' players all the more expensive.

Here's the thing I'm struggling to understand about Financial Fair Play: you're still going to have to play all those players you sign. I don't know what they're paying Torres but it's surely more than 100,000 pounds a week. That's over 5 million pounds a year extra. Under Financial Fair Play you're not allowed huge debt. Even before those transfers I think Chelsea lost something like a 100 Million last year. With all those massive wages how do you bring your spending down to compliance?

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens to transfer fees in the long term because of Financial Fair Play. They're either going to come down because clubs won't be allowed to spend massively or we're going to see a big increase in the number of Bosman signings and the poaching of youth players.

I like the regulation in theory. It prevents clubs from going under when a "sugar daddy" leaves or loses interest. However, I fear that it will also help to consolidate the power of top teams. They can spend more because they earn more. It's difficult to see a club like Hoffenheim rise like it did once Financial Fair Play happens.

Also: Which current centre forwards would you rate superior to an in-form Fernando Torres? I'm struggling to think of any.

Arron wrote:

We were linked with Torres a little while ago, so it's a slight shame he's gone to Chelsea. Though when you've got Berbatov and hernandez who are in such good form and Rooney who's getting his game back, there would be no need for Torres. Chelsea are clearly desperate to get something out of this season as it's been pretty poor so far. Is Torres able to play in the Champions League? He's only played in the Europa League with Liverpool. If so, he could prove a fantastic purchase come the back-end of the season. If he stays injury free, he'll be taking over Drogba's role very soon.

Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal all won last night. Our unbeaten run is still in good shape and our performances (including comebacks) are looking good. Ryan Giggs has been sensational this season.

Yes, Torres can play in the Champions League. Any club is allowed to bring in up to 3 new players into their Champions League squad providing they aren't cup-tied. UEFA doesn't consider playing in the UEFA Cup as a cup-tie for the Champions League so Torres is completely eligible. David Luiz has represented Benfica in the Champions League and is not eligible.

Ryan Giggs is one of my favourite football players. Still very classy at this age and always conducted himself as a professional. I used to be a big Man U fan a decade or so ago and one of my fondest memories is his him running through virtually the whole Arsenal side before scoring the decider in their FA Cup tie.

Ragnarok73 wrote:

ed_metal_head wrote:

Liverpool take the crazy award though. And all that for one signing. They lost Torres so they went into panic buy mode. Who did they get? Andy Carroll. Normally he's not a terrible signing. He's young and has a decent goal scoring record. However, Liverpool paid 35 Million Pounds for Andy Carroll thus making him the record British signing. He's not even worth half of that. That's about how much Real Madrid paid for Luis Figo when he was one of the best players in the world. That's more than Chelsea paid for Sheva when he was one of the best strikers in the world. You want more recent? That's more than Barcelona paid for David Villa who is one of the best strikers in the world. It's much more than Man City paid for Edin Dzeko who has the same physical attributes as Carroll but has proven himself in other leagues. Yes, Andy Carroll has a nice scoring record this season but he's been playing at the top level for half of a season. He's also had some injury concerns in his short career, but more importantly he has assaulted teammates and members of the public and loves the nightlife. How Liverpool could spend so much money for an immature and unproven commodity is beyond me.

To address this: Carroll is talented AND he's young (only 20 years old). A young player who's talented will almost always be expensive, so Liverpool had little choice in the price (they initially offered 30 million pounds, which Newcastle rejected out of hand almost immediately). Next, Daiglish, one of the best managers ever in football, made the decision to sign him and Suarez. I'm going to put faith in his decision-making until it's proven to be faulty.

I admit that I'm skeptical about Suarez' signing given his behavior in the World Cup last year, but I also had skepticism about Kuyt's signing after 2006. Kenny must have seen something in Luis that I've missed aside from his skill.

Yes, young and talented players are expensive, but they've made Carroll the 8th most expensive player in the history of football! Don't you think that's incredibly excessive? Have you seen the list of proven, world-class forwards who are cheaper? Also, those forwards haven't been arrested three times for assault and haven't gotten into a serious physical altercation with team-mates on two occasions.

I love the signing of Suarez in theory. He's scored a ton of goals in Holland and can play centrally or as a wide man. When Carroll is finally fit they'll probably use him in the middle and Suarez out wide. That could work really well. Of course, Suarez's goals have come in the goal-happy Dutch league and he also has some attitude problems. He's just coming off a long suspension for biting an opponent. Maybe that's what Dalglish saw?

And yeah, Dalglish is one of the greatest of all English managers but he hasn't managed a side in over a decade. When he left it was without much success and he was seen as being over-the-hill. In that time tactics have changed drastically. Maybe he'll do well, who knows? However, being a legend doesn't guarantee success in the modern game.

Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:07 pm

Ragnarok73

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

ed_metal_head wrote:

Yes, young and talented players are expensive, but they've made Carroll the 8th most expensive player in the history of football! Don't you think that's incredibly excessive? Have you seen the list of proven, world-class forwards who are cheaper? Also, those forwards haven't been arrested three times for assault and haven't gotten into a serious physical altercation with team-mates on two occasions.

Again, Liverpool didn't make Carroll the 8th most expensive player in the history of football by choice, and I'm very sure that they wouldn't have bother signing him at all if Torres hadn't submitted his transfer request. Their hands were tied. Keep in mind that when you're signing a young player away from a team, you're taking away a significant investment that the team he's coming from made, as Newcastle did. Also, Carroll's already started to prove himself capable of starring at the top level, so this wasn't an investment to the future.

ed_metal_head wrote:

I love the signing of Suarez in theory. He's scored a ton of goals in Holland and can play centrally or as a wide man. When Carroll is finally fit they'll probably use him in the middle and Suarez out wide. That could work really well. Of course, Suarez's goals have come in the goal-happy Dutch league and he also has some attitude problems. He's just coming off a long suspension for biting an opponent. Maybe that's what Dalglish saw?

I'm not sure what Daiglish saw, but it was obviously enough to persuade him to sign Suarez. Like I said, I'm skeptical about this signing after Suarez' conduct in the World Cup last year, so we'll have to see how this one pans out.

ed_metal_head wrote:

And yeah, Dalglish is one of the greatest of all English managers but he hasn't managed a side in over a decade. When he left it was without much success and he was seen as being over-the-hill. In that time tactics have changed drastically. Maybe he'll do well, who knows? However, being a legend doesn't guarantee success in the modern game.

Of course not, but he's already changed Liverpool from being passive in their game to being more aggressive, which shows me that he understands the strengths of their lineup better than Hodgson or Benitez did. The fact that he's signed two good strikers tells me that he may be switching away from a lone-striker formation (4-5-1) to one that is more aggressive in attack (4-4-2 or 4-3-3).

Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:16 pm

ed_metal_head

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

Ragnarok73 wrote:

Again, Liverpool didn't make Carroll the 8th most expensive player in the history of football by choice

Yes they did! They could have chosen not to buy him. Clubs demand outrageous fees all the time. Other clubs rarely pay those fees. I understand the need to replace Torres but he wasn't having a great season. Suarez could have have been the sole replacement until summer. They had options. Jovanovic, N'Gog and Kuyt are all forwards by trade and could have partnered Suarez. Let's not forget that Carroll is injured for quite some time so they won't have him for the entirety of the season. A stop-gap measure would have been adequate until a more rationale signing could have been made.

Hell they could have gotten a quick loan signing. Want a big guy? Juventus' Amauri is available for free. He turned two English clubs down because of their small stature. I think he would have accepted Liverpool.

Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:33 pm

Ragnarok73

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

ed_metal_head wrote:

Ragnarok73 wrote:

Again, Liverpool didn't make Carroll the 8th most expensive player in the history of football by choice

Yes they did! They could have chosen not to buy him. Clubs demand outrageous fees all the time. Other clubs rarely pay those fees. I understand the need to replace Torres but he wasn't having a great season. Suarez could have have been the sole replacement until summer. They had options. Jovanovic, N'Gog and Kuyt are all forwards by trade and could have partnered Suarez. Let's not forget that Carroll is injured for quite some time so they won't have him for the entirety of the season. A stop-gap measure would have been adequate until a more rationale signing could have been made.

Hell they could have gotten a quick loan signing. Want a big guy? Juventus' Amauri is available for free. He turned two English clubs down because of their small stature. I think he would have accepted Liverpool.

Liverpool wasn't doing particularly well WITH Torres in the lineup, so signing an inferior player wouldn't have helped them. I like Kuyt, N'Gog, and Jovanovic, but none of them have even half the talent that Torres does (when healthy). They needed to not only replace Torres' ability, they also had to assure their fans that they're doing everything they can to put a winning team out onto the pitch.

When you look at it, they ended up spending 7.5 million pounds in total to get Suarez and Carroll when you take away the 45 million pounds they got from Chelsea for Torres. Actually, Liverpool in total may not have spent even that much, given that they'd sold Ryan Babel earlier in the week for 6-7 million pounds. This isn't exactly a huge gamble given that in the end, as they hadn't spent much money at all.

Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:55 pm

Arron

Assistant Second Unit Director

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:20 pmPosts: 162

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

Ed, I completely agree about that Ryan Giggs goal. I have the treble winning season on VHS somewhere that I put on now and again. It still sends shivers down my spine. Those two games in the FA Cup semi-finals were fantastic. The second game had Bergkamp's (one of the finest strikers to grace the Premier League) lucky deflected goal, his penelty saved by Schmeichel, Schmeichel making an amazing save and injuring himself...followed by Giggs scoring that stunning goal. The Champions League quarters, semis and final are still amazing to watch as well.

Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:27 am

Unke

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

ed_metal_head wrote:

Unke wrote:

1. From 2011/2012 on (or a year later), UEFA's financial fair play rules will exclude all clubs from European competitions, which, roughly speaking, do not break even, i.e. transfers can't be financed by sugar daddies alone. If you want to spend big, you'll have to make big money, too. This is why clubs like Manchester City are spending like idiots at the moment - they'll have to make the big, money-losing transfers now. Could be the same for Chelsea. (Btw, Torres can be great, but best centre forward in the world? Naaah.)

2. Similarly, the English FA will introduce a so-called 'homegrown' rule, according to which a squad must contain a minimum number of players, who are eligible for England or who have come through the youth system of English clubs. Also, there are limitations on squad sizes (this might be a UEFA rule, though). This will make 'homegrown' players all the more expensive.

Here's the thing I'm struggling to understand about Financial Fair Play: you're still going to have to play all those players you sign. I don't know what they're paying Torres but it's surely more than 100,000 pounds a week. That's over 5 million pounds a year extra. Under Financial Fair Play you're not allowed huge debt. Even before those transfers I think Chelsea lost something like a 100 Million last year. With all those massive wages how do you bring your spending down to compliance?

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens to transfer fees in the long term because of Financial Fair Play. They're either going to come down because clubs won't be allowed to spend massively or we're going to see a big increase in the number of Bosman signings and the poaching of youth players.

I like the regulation in theory. It prevents clubs from going under when a "sugar daddy" leaves or loses interest. However, I fear that it will also help to consolidate the power of top teams. They can spend more because they earn more. It's difficult to see a club like Hoffenheim rise like it did once Financial Fair Play happens.

To my knowledge, under UEFA financial fair play rules, clubs are meant to balance their accounts within a certain time frame, i.e. they can overspend one season and compensate in the next season. But I must admit that the details escape me. Of course, exorbitant wages could be a problem for some clubs, even if transfer fees were not an issue. However, I am certain that there will be ways to circumvent problems caused by insufficient income. In Chelsea’s case, for instance, owner Abramovitch could just arrange for an extremely lucrative shirt sponsorship deal with a company he owns, thus creating income, rather than supporting them with direct payments. Somewhat cynically, I also have doubts regarding the enforcement of the financial fair play rules. Will UEFA really bar a club such as, for example, Real Madrid from participating in the Champions League because they cannot manage their debt?

ed_metal_head wrote:

Also: Which current centre forwards would you rate superior to an in-form Fernando Torres? I'm struggling to think of any.

Well, the crucial term is „in form“. Torres has been out of shape for nearly a year now, hasn’t he? At which point is a lack of form indicative of a lack of consistency and, hence, class? I mean, Miroslav Klose looks like a world class player on occasion, particularly when playing for Germany, but he has always had lengthy dry spells. Also, I don’t think that outfield players can be easily compared and ranked. But, off the top of my head, I would consider the following strikers as roughly equal in quality to Fernando Torres: Fernando Llorente, David Villa, Gonzalo Higuain, Diego Milito, Carlos Tevez, Didier Drogba, Samuel Eto’o, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Christiano Ronaldo (debatable whether he qualifies a striker), Wayne Rooney (same form issues as Torres, though), Diego Forlan

Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:32 am

ed_metal_head

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

Ragnarok73 wrote:

Liverpool wasn't doing particularly well WITH Torres in the lineup, so signing an inferior player wouldn't have helped them.

Well why did they sign Carroll then?

Ragna, it seems that we'll never see eye-to-eye on this. For their sake I hope that Carroll turns into a quality striker however I fear that he'll go down as one of the biggest busts of all time.

Arron wrote:

Ed, I completely agree about that Ryan Giggs goal. I have the treble winning season on VHS somewhere that I put on now and again. It still sends shivers down my spine. Those two games in the FA Cup semi-finals were fantastic. The second game had Bergkamp's (one of the finest strikers to grace the Premier League) lucky deflected goal, his penelty saved by Schmeichel, Schmeichel making an amazing save and injuring himself...followed by Giggs scoring that stunning goal. The Champions League quarters, semis and final are still amazing to watch as well.

Absolutely. I was a fan at that time because they had just signed Dwight Yorke who is from my country. He and (newly crowned World Cup Villain) Beckham linked up fantastically. I remember those headed comeback goals versus Juventus very well.

Unke wrote:

Will UEFA really bar a club such as, for example, Real Madrid from participating in the Champions League because they cannot manage their debt?

That's a good point. A move like that would hurt UEFA's revenue and could lead to another G-14 like organisation. I remember the G-14 threatened to form their own lucrative European league so there is the possibility of that re-occurring.

Unke wrote:

ed_metal_head wrote:

Also: Which current centre forwards would you rate superior to an in-form Fernando Torres? I'm struggling to think of any.

Well, the crucial term is „in form“. Torres has been out of shape for nearly a year now, hasn’t he? At which point is a lack of form indicative of a lack of consistency and, hence, class? I mean, Miroslav Klose looks like a world class player on occasion, particularly when playing for Germany, but he has always had lengthy dry spells. Also, I don’t think that outfield players can be easily compared and ranked. But, off the top of my head, I would consider the following strikers as roughly equal in quality to Fernando Torres: Fernando Llorente, David Villa, Gonzalo Higuain, Diego Milito, Carlos Tevez, Didier Drogba, Samuel Eto’o, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Christiano Ronaldo (debatable whether he qualifies a striker), Wayne Rooney (same form issues as Torres, though), Diego Forlan

Some good names, but I did specify "Centre forward" as opposed to "Striker". A few of those certainly fall into the Centre Forward category but many do not. I'd actually agree that Zlatan is a better centre forward than a fully fit Torres and after some thought I'm surprised that you haven't brought up "Super" Mario Gomez. I've been a fan for a while and have been touting him at every major tournament. His failures never ceased to amuse my friends. This season is different, however, and I've been able to gloat on an almost weekly basis.

Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:07 pm

Robert Holloway

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

have to say that only 2 clubs in the EPL have a long term strategy. they have managers withy long tenure and a system in place. the rest are scratching around lurching form one approach to the next. they are of course Man Utd and Arsenal.

I'd add that Tottenham seem to have the right approach.

Before Chelsea fans jump on me - Roman has one approach in 2007 - 9, belt tightening in 20101, panic in 2011

Man City are a disaster in the making - when their owners become bored, then what? They are not self financing and the mercenaries will be gone in weeks

I really hope that Liverpool return to greatness under Kenny (I support Arsenal) and I hope their owners look at Man Utd and Arsenal and take note.

Rob

Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:13 pm

Ragnarok73

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

ed_metal_head wrote:

Well why did they sign Carroll then?

Ragna, it seems that we'll never see eye-to-eye on this. For their sake I hope that Carroll turns into a quality striker however I fear that he'll go down as one of the biggest busts of all time.

Never say never. If Torres goes on to score as many goals for Chelsea as he did for Liverpool and Carroll ends up not panning out, then I would have to agree with your initial assessment. I'm just willing to give Kenny the benefit of the doubt for now.

One thing about Torres' departure that I'm not happy about: while I understand his frustration near the end of his time with Liverpool, I do wish that Torres decided to give Kenny more time (at least until the end of this season) before deciding on whether he wanted out or not.

Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:44 am

Ragnarok73

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

Robert Holloway wrote:

I really hope that Liverpool return to greatness under Kenny (I support Arsenal) and I hope their owners look at Man Utd and Arsenal and take note.

Well, one of the big problems plaguing Liverpool over the past 3 years was their ownership situation. They finally took care of that when the New England Sports Ventures group came in and took over ownership of the team from Hicks and Gillette who were in the process of running the team into the ground. NESV are the same people who own the Boston Red Sox, so they've already shown a willingness to invest in a team to get it to the next level.

Another big problem was with the management of the team. Benitez was maligned (justifiably, IMO) as a manager who was too rigid in his tactical thinking as well as too passive in his system (4-2-3-1). He was replaced this season by Hodgson who ended up being at least as passive in his approach if not more so. This led to a dismal start and the replacement of Hodgson by Daiglish. Daiglish has already made changes in the team philosophy that is more attack-oriented, and this should only continue with the acquisitions of Carroll and Suarez.

So to sum it up: the ownership situation has been stabilized this season as has the management situation. Whether it will be in time for Liverpool to finish at least in the top 4 and get back into Champions' League is questionable, but I've got faith right now that the team is heading in the right direction.

Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:51 am

Robert Holloway

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

Ragnarok73 wrote:

So to sum it up: the ownership situation has been stabilized this season as has the management situation. Whether it will be in time for Liverpool to finish at least in the top 4 and get back into Champions' League is questionable, but I've got faith right now that the team is heading in the right direction.

Hey R73

I really do think that after the last week you a better off. Carroll and Suarez backed up by Gerard is scarier for us Gooners than what you had.

Looks like relegation is now a distant memory and you can hope for mid table this year

Next year you'll have a chance at top 4

But considering Man Utd, us, Chelsea, Tottenham and Man City who will strengthen again, don't hold your breath. You have to knock out 2 of those 5.

Rob

Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:16 am

Unke

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

ed_metal_head wrote:

Absolutely. I was a fan at that time because they had just signed Dwight Yorke who is from my country. He and (newly crowned World Cup Villain) Beckham linked up fantastically. I remember those headed comeback goals versus Juventus very well.

Unke wrote:

Will UEFA really bar a club such as, for example, Real Madrid from participating in the Champions League because they cannot manage their debt?

That's a good point. A move like that would hurt UEFA's revenue and could lead to another G-14 like organisation. I remember the G-14 threatened to form their own lucrative European league so there is the possibility of that re-occurring.

Unke wrote:

ed_metal_head wrote:

Also: Which current centre forwards would you rate superior to an in-form Fernando Torres? I'm struggling to think of any.

Well, the crucial term is „in form“. Torres has been out of shape for nearly a year now, hasn’t he? At which point is a lack of form indicative of a lack of consistency and, hence, class? I mean, Miroslav Klose looks like a world class player on occasion, particularly when playing for Germany, but he has always had lengthy dry spells. Also, I don’t think that outfield players can be easily compared and ranked. But, off the top of my head, I would consider the following strikers as roughly equal in quality to Fernando Torres: Fernando Llorente, David Villa, Gonzalo Higuain, Diego Milito, Carlos Tevez, Didier Drogba, Samuel Eto’o, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Christiano Ronaldo (debatable whether he qualifies a striker), Wayne Rooney (same form issues as Torres, though), Diego Forlan

Some good names, but I did specify "Centre forward" as opposed to "Striker". A few of those certainly fall into the Centre Forward category but many do not. I'd actually agree that Zlatan is a better centre forward than a fully fit Torres and after some thought I'm surprised that you haven't brought up "Super" Mario Gomez. I've been a fan for a while and have been touting him at every major tournament. His failures never ceased to amuse my friends. This season is different, however, and I've been able to gloat on an almost weekly basis.

The so-called G14 clubs have already re-organised as the ‘European Club Organisation’, which is attached to UEFA. To my knowledge, they have been very supportive of the financial fair play regulations, because the current state of affairs is generally regarded as unsustainable, even by the clubs themselves. That being said, the effectiveness of the regulation will depend on how strictly it will be enforced, and I doubt that UEFA will exclude one of the big name clubs from the Champions League due to financial mismanagement. It’ll be the ‘upstarts’ who will suffer.

Regarding Mario Gomez – I’d agree that he is hugely talented and many people regard him very highly. Personally, I think that he has a tendency of missing absolute sitters, even though he may score eventually, and a lot of his goals come in batches, such as scoring hattricks in one match and then not at all in another few matches. Therefore, his admirable statistics are a bit misleading.

Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:53 am

ed_metal_head

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

Robert Holloway wrote:

Hey R73

I really do think that after the last week you a better off. Carroll and Suarez backed up by Gerard is scarier for us Gooners than what you had.

Looks like relegation is now a distant memory and you can hope for mid table this year

Next year you'll have a chance at top 4

But considering Man Utd, us, Chelsea, Tottenham and Man City who will strengthen again, don't hold your breath. You have to knock out 2 of those 5.

Rob

"Hope for mid table"? They're already up to 7th Rob. At this point mid table would be a let down. It might be difficult to catch Tottenham, but climbing above Sunderland for 6th place (and another season of UEFA Cup) seems realistic.

Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:01 pm

Robert Holloway

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

ed_metal_head wrote:

Robert Holloway wrote:

Hey R73

I really do think that after the last week you a better off. Carroll and Suarez backed up by Gerard is scarier for us Gooners than what you had.

Looks like relegation is now a distant memory and you can hope for mid table this year

Next year you'll have a chance at top 4

But considering Man Utd, us, Chelsea, Tottenham and Man City who will strengthen again, don't hold your breath. You have to knock out 2 of those 5.

Rob

"Hope for mid table"? They're already up to 7th Rob. At this point mid table would be a let down. It might be difficult to catch Tottenham, but climbing above Sunderland for 6th place (and another season of UEFA Cup) seems realistic.

Yeah, that's fair - I was seeing mid table as 7th to 14thSimply awesome season so farand my fave other team remains Blackpool, though I fear for themRob

Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:07 pm

ed_metal_head

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

One day Arsenal will be the death of me. Right now I never want to see them play again but I'm sure that will change soon enough. Especially if Wolves holds onto that 1 goal half time lead over Man United. That seems unlikely though. Man U are the comeback kings and I fear that in 45 minutes Arron will be singing "Glory, glory Man United".

Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:34 pm

Bondurant

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

Great day for Bundesliga action. Cologne v Bayern was a fantastic time and Gladbach v Stuttgart has been fun thus far.

Bundesliga > EPL

Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:38 pm

ed_metal_head

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

Bondurant wrote:

Great day for Bundesliga action. Cologne v Bayern was a fantastic time and Gladbach v Stuttgart has been fun thus far.

Bundesliga > EPL

You won't see me arguing too much there. The EPL has more "star" players and the top clubs are interesting to watch but the Bundesliga is one of the most competitive leagues around. It's also one of the best supported. You rarely see empty seats and the atmosphere is great.

I had the pleasure to be in Dortmund's massive stadium for the World Cup and I've never heard a stadium so noisy. Nothing comes remotely close.

Of course, none of my cable channels carry Bundesliga games so I'm forced to follow scores online. That's why I watch so much English football and Arsenal is the most interesting of those clubs. They don't spend ridiculous sums of money and try to play an attractive game. Just wish they didn't throw away leads so often.

Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:47 pm

Ragnarok73

Re: Football (the one played only with the foot)

KING KENNY! The Reds go to Stamford Bridge and spoiled Torres' debut with a masterful defensive performance under Daiglish's 3-1-4-2 system. Fernando got to watch from the bench as Meireles potted the lone goal that sparked the Reds to victory. Now Liverpool are just 6 points behind Chelsea and Tottenham for the final CL spot. I would laugh so hard if Liverpool supplanted Chelsea in the CL after Torres' statement that his motivation for moving was to play in the top tier. It would make me believe in the concept of karma.

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