I also liked Mikaela from the films. She was a good a character - unfortuante camera pervs aside - and didn't scream like a little girl everytime there was even a whiff of jeopardy. Sheesh Sam was awful, wasn't he - and a total dick to everyone he met, trying that whole Ross-from-Friends wiseass act. What a spanner.

But given that transformers g1 was always going to be aimed at a retro and therefore older crowd I could never understand why Furman went with Kids as the identifying characters. Why not some serious, adult characters for the Transformers to interact with and maybe add a much needed new take to the story.

In fairness to Simon, I'm not sure any comic version of the transformers have got any decent human characters. They've always felt more like plot points rather than actual characters that can keep a readers interest alongside the robots. For all its faults, AHM probably does it best, but Spike is a terrible creation (even before he really got annoying under costa).

As much as I have slated him, I think the Michael Bay moveies got the best human characters. No, not Sam and his idiot parents, but rather the marines in the first one and Mearing in the third are more the kind of characters I would like to see in the comic.

I dunno, most fans seem to hate the idea of Humanity being anything other than screaming, helpless victims, but then they hate Shia Labeouf(not the character he's playing) too.

I think people dislike stuff like Spike taking down a Decepticon with some household chemicals. I thought the scene in the first bay movie were Scorponok attacks is done really well. The Humans fight back and eventually win out but it takes much more of them.

This works in the overall concept of the TF universe - yes, its two armies. But they are small and heavily personalised so they dont work like Human armies. Instead they have to use their ability to infiltrate to get in an optimum position to attack where their individual troop ability causes much more damage - as in Blackouts helicopter attack. If he had just attacked that base headlong and got blown to pieces I wouldnt have a problem. Instead he uses the helicopter mode to sneak in and destroy the base from within. It's exactly how I would depict transformers vs humans.

Its also why I found myself hating the other 2 Bay movies more than the first. That scene promised so much in my mind but the films gradually abandoned a semi-realistic take for jive talking robots.

I think people dislike stuff like Spike taking down a Decepticon with some household chemicals. I thought the scene in the first bay movie were Scorponok attacks is done really well. The Humans fight back and eventually win out but it takes much more of them.

Its also why I found myself hating the other 2 Bay movies more than the first. That scene promised so much in my mind but the films gradually abandoned a semi-realistic take for jive talking robots.

Naw, they were bitching about the humans being too useful (despite their victory hingeing entirely on sucker punching superior foes)even before the 2nd movie, so your point is moot

Besides, last I recall, no one had a problem with Spike being uber-badass until Don Figueroa's Bay-inspired new art style. Coincidence? I think not.

Besides, last I recall, no one had a problem with Spike being uber-badass until Don Figueroa's Bay-inspired new art style. Coincidence? I think not.

It's not about Spike being a badass or anything, it's about Spike trash-talking a Decepticon and beating him with utterly and increasingly ridiculous methods and being a general jackass.

And he does that, killing a Transformer who is forced to act like a total buffoon to justify Spike being able to kill him single-handedly, while trash-talking the entire Transformer race. Not just Scrapper, not the Decepticons, he's trash-talking the entire Transformer race. Don't you think that the Transformer fans would like it when an already hateable character goes off and rants about how totally useless and lame giant robots are?

Not to mention that Mike Costa's Spike is a total whiny annoying piece of shit who insults practically every Transformer he meets, who in addition to being an obvious Mary Sue, is probably universally reviled by the fandom all throughout the entire Costa run, up until the obvious retcon that, oops, he's a Decepticon agent and traitor and shit, so he has clearance to be a jackass all along. Whereas McCarthy portrayed him as a cliched and merely annoying generic movie hero guy.

And the issue where he kills Scrapper wasn't drawn by Don Figueroa.

I'm not saying Don Figueroa's new art style is bad (the robot faces themselves are the major complaints I have, otherwise I liked it) but it being the reason why people hate Spike, who is drawn exactly the way he was as in previous IDW portrayals? I think you're drawing at straws to support your ridiculous fandom conspiracies, man.

Back to topic:

I actually liked Prime through both of its seasons, and thought it was as good as Beast Wars, at least... both as a kid's show, as well as a more serious sci-fi story. Animated was much more hammier and kiddier (and annoying, in retrospect) but I really, really do like all of Transformers: Prime, and am really sad to see it cancelled.

Naw, they were bitching about the humans being too useful (despite their victory hingeing entirely on sucker punching superior foes)even before the 2nd movie, so your point is moot

No, a moot point would be Spike has hair.

Also, I wasn't speaking for all people when I wrote "I thought...". Figured that I was obviously expressing an opinion.

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Besides, last I recall, no one had a problem with Spike being uber-badass until Don Figueroa's Bay-inspired new art style. Coincidence? I think not.

People were complaining about Spike as far back as AHM #9. And if the ending to AHM didn't go down well, AHM #16 cemented his position as most peoples pet hate. Well before Don came back to draw for IDW. But Black Jack has explained it better than I could so I'll leave it at that.

It's not about Spike being a badass or anything, it's about Spike trash-talking a Decepticon and beating him with utterly and increasingly ridiculous methods and being a general jackass.

And he does that, killing a Transformer who is forced to act like a total buffoon to justify Spike being able to kill him single-handedly, while trash-talking the entire Transformer race. Not just Scrapper, not the Decepticons, he's trash-talking the entire Transformer race. Don't you think that the Transformer fans would like it when an already hateable character goes off and rants about how totally useless and lame giant robots are?

Not to mention that Mike Costa's Spike is a total whiny annoying piece of shit who insults practically every Transformer he meets, who in addition to being an obvious Mary Sue, is probably universally reviled by the fandom all throughout the entire Costa run, up until the obvious retcon that, oops, he's a Decepticon agent and traitor and shit, so he has clearance to be a jackass all along. Whereas McCarthy portrayed him as a cliched and merely annoying generic movie hero guy.

And the issue where he kills Scrapper wasn't drawn by Don Figueroa.

I'm not saying Don Figueroa's new art style is bad (the robot faces themselves are the major complaints I have, otherwise I liked it) but it being the reason why people hate Spike, who is drawn exactly the way he was as in previous IDW portrayals? I think you're drawing at straws to support your ridiculous fandom conspiracies, man.

Back to topic:

I actually liked Prime through both of its seasons, and thought it was as good as Beast Wars, at least... both as a kid's show, as well as a more serious sci-fi story. Animated was much more hammier and kiddier (and annoying, in retrospect) but I really, really do like all of Transformers: Prime, and am really sad to see it cancelled.

But that's just me.

That's a lot of words, but I'll have to concede.

I think Lugnut's kind of cute, though, the way he worships a guy who'd probably scrap him when the first opportunity presents itself.

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Originally Posted by Red Dave Prime

No, a moot point would be Spike has hair.

Also, I wasn't speaking for all people when I wrote "I thought...". Figured that I was obviously expressing an opinion.

People were complaining about Spike as far back as AHM #9. And if the ending to AHM didn't go down well, AHM #16 cemented his position as most peoples pet hate. Well before Don came back to draw for IDW. But Black Jack has explained it better than I could so I'll leave it at that.

I dunno, most of the AHM fan don't seem to have much of a problem with Spike almost single-handedly turning the tide of the Cybertronian conflict, much less with a weapon more powerful than a goddamn lightsaber (the Mary Sue of Sci-Fi weapons) until Mike Costa came along. Even that one guy didn't complain about it util like, 2-3 years later.

I think Lugnut's kind of cute, though, the way he worships a guy who'd probably scrap him when the first opportunity presents itself.

Where and how did Lugnut come into this discussion? What, are you bringing him in from the other thread and try and turn this into a stereotype-related shouting match again?

Stop bringing in those controversial and offensive topics from the thread that got locked. There is a reason we locked it.

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I dunno, most of the AHM fan don't seem to have much of a problem with Spike almost single-handedly turning the tide of the Cybertronian conflict, much less with a weapon more powerful than a goddamn lightsaber (the Mary Sue of Sci-Fi weapons) until Mike Costa came along. Even that one guy didn't complain about it util like, 2-3 years later.

Then these so-called 'AHM fans' and 'one guy' should come here and speak for themselves. Stop parroting their points and then acting as if you don't know anything and point fingers once someone argues the point.

I think Lugnut's kind of cute, though, the way he worships a guy who'd probably scrap him when the first opportunity presents itself.

I dunno, most of the AHM fan don't seem to have much of a problem with Spike almost single-handedly turning the tide of the Cybertronian conflict, much less with a weapon more powerful than a goddamn lightsaber (the Mary Sue of Sci-Fi weapons) until Mike Costa came along. Even that one guy didn't complain about it util like, 2-3 years later.

Oh for the love of god.

I swear to god, one of these days one person will be talking about groceries or something and you'll butt in and tell them lettuce is so expensive because Spike shot Megatron in AHM and everybody hates him.

Then these so-called 'AHM fans' and 'one guy' should come here and speak for themselves. Stop parroting their points and then acting as if you don't know anything and point fingers once someone argues the point.

...I think these 'AHM fans' and 'one guy' are Kungfu Dinobot.

I am reminded of a Far Side cartoon called 'In God's Kitchen' and God has just pulled the freshly baked Earth from the oven (I know! Suspend your disbelief for a moment..!) and has a shaker tub that he is about to pat over the Earth. He is thinking "And just to make things interesting...". The tub is marked 'Jerks'.

Where and how did Lugnut come into this discussion? What, are you bringing him in from the other thread and try and turn this into a stereotype-related shouting match again?

Stop bringing in those controversial and offensive topics from the thread that got locked. There is a reason we locked it.

Jesus Christ, you mentioned the Animated characters are annoying, I say I'm pretty fond of Lugnut (the same reason Waspinator is so popular). Nothing wrong with that.

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Then these so-called 'AHM fans' and 'one guy' should come here and speak for themselves. Stop parroting their points and then acting as if you don't know anything and point fingers once someone argues the point.

Meh, i'd drop it.

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Originally Posted by Knightdramon

Oh for the love of god.

I swear to god, one of these days one person will be talking about groceries or something and you'll butt in and tell them lettuce is so expensive because Spike shot Megatron in AHM and everybody hates him.

Hence I said "almost", I doubt Optimus would be able to pull a fast one on Megatron if Spike Witwicky didn't soften him up first.

Also, I don't have a problem with the headshot per se, but the weapon used for it.

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Originally Posted by Skyquake87

...I think these 'AHM fans' and 'one guy' are Kungfu Dinobot

I don't even like AHM at all. I consider it a bigger step backwards for the IDWverse than Stormbringer.

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Originally Posted by Cliffjumper

Hay guyz I dun't rely know much so an we speak about the hitler poltics sum fanz and the raacism? Not a troll just askin LOL!

Sheesh, Cliffjumper, I've seen your "Grand Index of the Global Jewish Conspiracy" post (which is, by the way, awesome). You can do so much better than that.

Sheesh, Cliffjumper, I've seen your "Grand Index of the Global Jewish Conspiracy" post (which is, by the way, awesome). You can do so much better than that.

What are you dribbling about now, troll? Get the **** back on topic. If you're having trouble picking up on it, pretty much everyone here is tired of your obvious attempts to grab attention and stir up shit. So, stop trolling or get banned, it really is that simple.

What are you dribbling about now, troll? Get the **** back on topic. If you're having trouble picking up on it, pretty much everyone here is tired of your obvious attempts to grab attention and stir up shit. So, stop trolling or get banned, it really is that simple.

What does it take to prove that I'm a harmless idiot instead of a malicious troll?

Anyways, TF Prime, I'm disappointed to see it go, but can't really give an ass. It was good, but nothing special. The fact that Shockwave's toy has a lame alt-mode is the 2nd final nail in the coffin. If Hardshell doesn't get a full-size toy that is at the very least, almost as good as the commander class, I'll do something slightly humiliating.

Anyways, TF Prime, I'm disappointed to see it go, but can't really give an ass. It was good, but nothing special. The fact that Shockwave's toy has a lame alt-mode is the 2nd final nail in the coffin. If Hardshell doesn't get a full-size toy that is at the very least, almost as good as the commander class, I'll do something slightly humiliating.

Prep yourself for something humiliating, because it's rumoured that the final, unseen voyager for the line is a Megatron iteration. Which leaves Hardshell out.

It still awes me how people still gawk at Shockwave having yet again a "lame" alt mode. The guy has a running tradition since 1984 of turning into nothings, half forms, and half assed stuff.

If he isn't a space handgun he doesn't transform, then he becomes a tank\crane hybrid, then a space tank, then a tube with wings, then another space tank.

You'd think people would get the gist by now...reading about Shockwave's usual alt modes is to me, like people lamenting on how Optimus Prime is another truck all over again!