Can someone tell me how to explain to a small system operator why using this stuff is bad? I am at a loss for words, other than "you look like a backwoods PA farmer when you pull those out".

I am at my wit's end with this. There is someone locally that is very close to having a respectable package, but refuses to get rid of this crap (it's paid for, after all :-), and still insists on stringing cables willy-nilly between racks, from inside each exposed rack, instead of either making or buying some simple XLR input/output panels which could be color coded to make persistent connections, using color coded XLR looms.

I give up. I don't know how to explain how amateurish this is.

Of course there are other obstacles (like basic stagecraft, neat cable runs, that sort of stuff) but this is really glaring. Ugly piles of cables are bad enough, but when they're orange, well, you know what I'm talking about.

Oh, you mean XLR. The title of the thread led me to believe you were talking about AC cables on deck. AC or XLR day-glo colors on deck present the same problem anyway - they draw attention to themselves (those selfish little cables).

Doug, ever show the mudwrestling pig a picture of a professional rack from a high end audio company? Would the pig even understand what it is seeing? It sounds like this pig is a friend of yours. Why else would this frustrate you so much?

As an aside, I work with a lot of Local 600 camera utility guys and I asked this very question of them when they were stringing orange and green AC edison cable all over the stage. They said that OSHA won't allow them to use black. I'm not sure if this is also true of film shoots. It sounds as though OSHA has made its influence directly known in the television production business yet they don't seem to have quite made it to theatrical and concert businesses, though I think it's only a matter of time before they become directly involved in those two businesses, especially in the rigging departments.

Until it comes down to dollars from lost gigs to someone better prepared, or the person wants to make the effort due to pride, it's hard to get across.

I had to quit working for someone over this stuff- same hassles every gig. Nothing labelled at FOH, no FX or insert snakes, no drive snake, everything hooked together with adapters, half the amps speakon, half bananas, half the speakers 1/4", half speakon, same with mons. Not a problem, but all the speaker and line cables and adapters thrown in a box labelled "Cables", every gig. It took an extra man-hour or two every gig to set up, with questions and searching.

I'm a fan of black cords.I'm from the days when all sound gear was black.You did that to not distract from the act.Now a days, the act is so distracting that the cords are invisible regardless of their color.

I got a bargain on Carare L4. I think it was like $.17 a foot, but only in yellow. As a result, all of FOH is wired in Canare yellow. I tell bands yellow wire passes signal faster. Some even believe me?!

Sams club recently had 12/3 100' extensions for $30.00. Being the frugal shopper I am, I picked up 4.

I don't go for the rainbow effect, but all of that yellow wire saved me a bundle.

Can someone tell me how to explain to a small system operator why using this stuff is bad? I am at a loss for words, other than "you look like a backwoods PA farmer when you pull those out".

I give up. I don't know how to explain how amateurish this is.

Of course there are other obstacles (like basic stagecraft, neat cable runs, that sort of stuff) but this is really glaring. Ugly piles of cables are bad enough, but when they're orange, well, you know what I'm talking about.

Doug, Well, for 3/4 of the noobs out here, it's simply a matter of what's available.. and cheap. After all, they just blew their wad on a load of gear, and now they gotta connect it - somehow.I'm going to take the other tack from Tom - and assume you're meaning AC.. I don't think most people even look at whether or not the Hardware store they shop at carries black - let alone the fact that 7/8 of the cables are sold to Homeowners and contractors who don't care anyway about color. IF we insisted on black more often as a total community, the stores DO Listen.But.. as far as the Color thing - you might wish to explain to our listening audience what the issue is. WHY it is amateurish, and WHY the pro community in general frown at the practice. Obviously, I do what I can to spread the word, but the average guy will look at me, and say "what the hey is the big deal??", and the best I can say is it looks amateurish and highly visible? He typically says, "..BUT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE VISIBLE! SAFETY, RIGHT?" (Riiighttt..) What to do beyond doing it right myself...?Regards,

Can someone tell me how to explain to a small system operator why using this stuff is bad? I am at a loss for words, other than "you look like a backwoods PA farmer when you pull those out".

I am at my wit's end with this. There is someone locally that is very close to having a respectable package, but refuses to get rid of this crap (it's paid for, after all , and still insists on stringing cables willy-nilly between racks, from inside each exposed rack, instead of either making or buying some simple XLR input/output panels which could be color coded to make persistent connections, using color coded XLR looms.

I give up. I don't know how to explain how amateurish this is.

Of course there are other obstacles (like basic stagecraft, neat cable runs, that sort of stuff) but this is really glaring. Ugly piles of cables are bad enough, but when they're orange, well, you know what I'm talking about.

-doug, Mr. "perpetually frustrated over this"

Doug,

About all you can do to push him a little in the right direction. Show him how a nicer, coherent presentation of the equipment can be a selling point for his company even for people without a clue. Since ANYBODY can figure out if something looks nice or looks clusterf**ked, keep the dayglo cables in the back out of site and any tangles, too. It's entertainment, appearances count. In the small operator stage myself, I see no major problem with safety colored AC cables that have to run from outlets to the using area, especially OUTSIDE. BUT I prefer to make my own out of black cable.

The first goal to teach him is the advantage of working easier and quicker, avoiding the brute force, stumbling approach. I.e., how:

a. neatly wrapping the excess cable around each monitor that may be moved means no (or less) rats's nest around the amp racks, which further means easier cable wrapup at the end of the night.b. saving a hour of total labor between loadin to loadout means more true profit in less beverages bought, less assistant pay, more sleep, ect. AND allows for the inevitable "something is not right" corrective time.c. simplifying setups means less stress figuring out HOW to wire the gig and allows more concentration on fixing those little (& not so little) problems that pop up.d. having everything labeled plainly makes it easier finding the right cable AND allows helpers to actually help vice being in the way.e. separating cables by type into their own containers really does make thing go smoother.

I KNOW you KNOW all this. The trick is getting the concept through to him, how an appoach like the above will allow him to avoid the crisis, flapping & flailing, beating of chests, and getting nothing done on time. The above are just some prime examples to teach him. Until he understands this, he won't see the big advantage of a simple I/O panel to stop reaching inside racks unnecessarily. I'd say part of this is him realizing his time and efforts are worth something so he shouldn't waste either.