Cheers for the explantion Nakia. And interesting little essay Mr K. From the context, I am guessing Missouri is treated like we treat Tasmania. e.g. How do you know you are from Missouri? Your parents have the same last name - before they married. Am I warm? Or did I misunderstand? AR.

I know a guy from Missouri and he is absolutely great. There are good and bad people everywhere you know.

I think AD has learned that he can't get his propaganda across if he is antagonizing people. I don't think he is learning anything else.

As for patriotism, I don't think it is a bad word (despite the fact that I have left wing and green sympathies). I'm just wary of people trying to make patriotism into something it is not i.e. a vehicle for xenophobia.

Populist parties are playing this card because it is easy to go around throwing half truths at people and simplifying issues in order to further a political agenda. Playing on emotions, prejudices and ignorance is an easy way to rally people to a cause (especially uneducated people who can't wait to blame their own failures on others, immigrants, politicians, etc). The whole strategy makes populist rhetoric highly convincing in times of crisis (inflation, wages being cut and soaring unemployement help) and highly dangerous since the limits between populism and fascism tend to become blurred. Especially when you start playing on nationalistic pride and then move on to prone the institution of universal militias like AD does...

I don't think the US is the greatest country in the world and I don't think France is either. I think that at some point in history some people had a vision, an ideal and they struggled to reconcile this ideal with reality and they failed. At least they tried and as a result we have this legacy we can't afford to live up to.

France has been putting itself forward as the country of Human Rights and it can't possibly live up to that claim. In the same way I don't think that the US can live up to the American Dream either. There are just too many things going wrong and to pretend otherwise would be incredibly arrogant and possibly dishonest.

Mark Twain was from Missouri which is a definite plus in its favor. As for being the term left or leftist I don't think the words have quite the same meaning here as they may in France. Ideals are fine if we don't try to reach for the stars we will never reach them. The only thing wrong with human beings is the simple fact that we are human beings, we are not perfect, we are not gods and in my opinion should not try playing at being gods. Fanatics are always dangerous although sometimes they do accomplish the near impossible.

Communism was a great ideal, the early Christians tried some form of it according to the Bible. Doesn't work though because humans are limited in just how much they are willing to share. Being self-centered and putting yourself and your family first is not a vice, it is a survival tactic and I think quite natural and even necessary.

Mr. K, I have posted your political article on SP. Cara gave me the perfect post to lead into it. You do have one error in it though. You mention Switzerland as one country having a controlled democracy it doesn't. It has a direct democracy meaning that minorities are not protected and that Switzerland could become a dictatorship under the right circumstances such as the current economic turmoil. I have mentioned this in my introductory remarks in order to avoid the need for our Cousins across the big pond to point it out to us.

AD's thread is becoming more and more interesting to me. I am finally learning something about European politics. Fascinating stuff.

For the record I don't think that Switzerland could become a dictatorship and I don't think Mr K is wrong in his assessment (sorry Nakia). It's just that the Swiss have a very democratic process which makes it easy for populist groups to launch wide campaigns. Lately they've been criticized for their stance against muslims. It's no surprise to me that in the wake of 9/11 most Europeans are opposed to muslims and see them as outsiders despite the fact that religious affiliation has nothing to do with citizenship.

I grew up near the Swiss border not far from Geneva and I know the Swiss mentality rather well. Geneva is a big cosmopolitan city and it doesn't reflect Switzerland in its entirety. As a rule I find the Swiss to be nice, well mannered and disciplined but they can also be arrogant and they have a hard time avoiding being critical of the French (sometimes with good reasons but not always).

Many French people work in Switzerland and as long as the economy was good the Swiss welcomed this workforce, now that the crisis is hitting us hard they are starting to resent the presence of foreigners working in Switzerland. There is some hypocrisy as Swiss nationals living near the border take advantage of that fact to cross over to France to do their shopping (many French nationals go to Switzerland to buy cigarettes since they are much cheaper so it works both ways). To be fair I have to say that the same thing is happening on the French side of the border (the far right has been gaining influence in politics over the last decade and they've been blaming immigrants for years).

There are many differences between France and Switzerland. Naturalization is decided on a local level. For instance my doctor who is French has married a Swiss woman and they've decided to move to Switzerland. He has also decided to take the Swiss nationality which wasn't a problem because he is of French ancestry, a doctor and married to a Swiss but it's not that easy for everyone (far from it). In comparison becoming French is a walk in the park.

I may have to read the whole Topic, and see what is going on there. But I don't plain on joining in on the conversation, I would run out of time to do anything else if I did.

I understand Politics, but when I start talking Politics, the topic changes to small issues, and political people, and I don't keep up with all the current people and small topics. I am more of a general, or Over View kind of Historian, or Political Thinker. I don't want to spend all day poking around in the guts, and mud of Politics. I would rather play games on my Computer.

Take a look over if you have something you want to say just post it here with permission for me to copy and I will move it over. Have any questions I will ask them. It is time consuming especially since I have essentially told him to prove what he says or shut up. I wish I was more politically asstute because he is equating our Federal Government with the United Nations and the European Union or rather vice versa. He does have some valid points but his overall interpretation is in my opinion highly questionable. He apologized to me and I accepted although I actually haven't forgiven him for calling me a leftist. It could have been worse he could have called me a Liberal in which case he would have gotten a PM from me. To all those who call themselves Liberals I do have my prejudices.

On the subject of political diversity and definitions. Did you ever read a book called "The Little World of Don Camillo" by Giovannino Guareschi an Italian writer and Journalist? The mayor of the village is a Communist but Guareschi makes it clear that he is an Italian communist and not a Russian communist.

He is scary. Even by some good luck he doesn't go off the deep end he will grow up and get some power and will do damage throughout his life. If he takes dmc's advice to heart he will only become more dangerous. If he learns how to manipulate people and how to be more subtle he will persuade others to his "cause".

Silence when we run across those type of people is not the answer though. We can't change them but maybe we can stop someone by being taken in by them.

AD already has a gun or guns. What kind I don't know. He is a very angry young man full of hate. Fortunately for me he does not who I am or where I live or I would be afraid for my life at this point. Seriously. For some reason I have really ticked him off. Could even be that, a woman, have dared to disagree with him. There are men like that.

Facebook is a liability. Even an IP Address won't give as much information as a facebook account (especially if you live in a crowded urban area). Either use a pseudonym or make sure you don't suscribe to pages that can be traced back to you.

I don't mean to scare you but forewarned is forearmed. I don't think that there is any real danger at this juncture. That kid is not a well adjusted person and IMO he needs therapy but I don't think he presents a threat just yet (what he may or may not do in the future is another matter, aside from being somewhat delusional and a vocal NRA supporter he clearly has anger issues).

In any case the mods over there are keeping an eye on him (and they do have his IP Address).

One step ahead of you, Cara. I went into my FB profile and removed my address, tried to make everything friends only. I will not be posting on that thread in the future even in fun. With some like that anything I say could set him off and I would not like being the indirect cause of harm to others. I have stated my position very clearly for those who minds and eyes to see it. Now is the time for silence.

So far it looks as if the thread may be dead. Crosses fingers, toes and hair.

He comes across to me as thinking people from other nations are inferior. Not just the form of government but the people themselves. He forgets that we are the descendants of those people. IE: You are French so nothing you say of is importance that you actually live there and can see and hear first hand what is going on is of no consequence. 8 can respond as much as she likes with first hand knowledge but is British so is a lesser person plus being woman I don't think will impress him favorably.

People like him are a dime a dozen. He is a bigot and a racist. The good thing is that you can learn a lot about other people by looking at the way they respond to him. And apart from a few posters most people at SP didn't respond favourably to his outlandish claims.

I'm French and I definitely lean on the left so I'm like the Antichrist to him and he doesn't even know about my origins (I don't advertise them anyway).

The sad thing is that he is not alone. There are many morons like him who go through life wearing blinkers and spouting hate towards people with different beliefs, different origins or differents life choices.

He makes Americans look bad but he doesn't know the first thing about what America is supposed to be about. He goes on and on about freedom when in fact he is petitioning for people to conform to his white supremacist gun toting agenda. He is a truly despicable individual.

Some people at SP have said that he is just a kid and that we should give him some slack and I suspect them to be partial to his views, wolves in sheep's clothing.

As a citizen and resident of the USA I find him an ensnarement which is why I kept posting. When we did the B & B tour in England I learned that people id see us as isolationists and arrogant. We told by people that they appreciated the fact that Elaine and I went off the beaten path, did not follow the normal "American" tourist route and agenda. I was told not to go to France by people in the USA because the French hated us. I did not find that to be true at all. There was the woman in Po who without a word of English helped with the laundromat. Just one of many who showed us kindness and were friendly. Italy was a bit different because Elaine was first generation Amer-Italian and spoke Tuscan.

I think the biggest thing I learned from my brief travels was that if you are friendly, greet people as equals and are willing to listen to them they will greet you the same way. We have much in common as human beings.

Americans are often seen as being a bit "loud" so if you don't fall into that stereotype people tend to react in a more positive way.

In France we don't hate Americans, we hate the arrogance that some Americans display, we hate people who hate us, people who call us "cheese eating surrendering monkeys" and people who are stupid enough to rename French fries... The Freedom Fries incident made it very hard for us to even like you guys but when 9/11 happened people were supportive and shared in your grief.

It's pretty much a love/hate relationship.

The French love watching American movies dubbed in French (that goes without saying) and they love listening to music in English (sometimes without even understanding a single word). American culture doesn't get through like it does in the UK (probably because we don't speak the same language) but it is omnipresent in movies and on the TV.

A friend of mine has just bought a 1979 Trans Am and it was a childhood dream of his. The car is not very practical because of the weather here and it needs way too much gas which makes it incredibly expensive but it's a dream come true and that's the sort of things that happens when you grow up watching Smokey and the Bandit.

In my opinion the problem is that we don't understand Americans and I don't think Americans understand us either.

To us America is pretty much a fantasy land that we can see on the big screen with the Marlboro Man riding in the sunset and I don't think most Americans can see beyond a clichéd vision of Paris with the Moulin Rouge and Pigalle.