Either of those choices can be argued as being morally right. I think letting Ben die was wrong, however. Personally, I think it was morally right to kill Larry and keep him from coming back, which would have resulted in the deaths of everyone in the meat locker, Kat and Duck, along with Carley/Doug and Ben. My Lee doesn't risk the lives of the entire group just for one person who, IMO, was dead anyway. That doesn't mean I liked doing it.

There's no justifiable reason for letting Ben die. As for Larry, how difficult would it have been to wait a few moments and then smash in Zombie Larry's head? Kenny made a choice that was not his to make.

If Ben winds up causing someone's death in Ep 5 AGAIN, say Clem for example, and killing him in 4 would've prevented that, would you still say it wasn't justifiable to kill him? In the same way Larry was a threat to the group (honestly, think we should've gotten rid of him and Lilly earlier) Ben is too. In the ZA you have to have people you can trust to have your back. Ben's fuckups aren't even because he dislikes you, it's because he is incompetent and nothing will fix that.

In a Z.A., natural selection would reassert it self. The weak, sickly those unable to adapt would be expendable for the betterment of the whole, group or tribe so to speak. Going against that would be to the detriment of the remnants of humanity as a whole. It's one of the ways I felt Crawford was doomed to failure as children would be precious and necessary to the survival of the human species.

I often find myself forgetting what I wanted my character to be like, and reacting in the moment, which I think uniquely sets this game apart from others. The moral ambiguity is the best thing and it's USP.

Taking the Larry and Ben things in turn;

Larry: I chose to kill him. He would turn, we would die, and I didn't know what would happen by deciding otherwise, however I knew EXACTLY what would happen if we killed him. I chose to know my path. I( was quite shocked that Lilly forgave or at least tolerated Lee/Kenny after that with such ease. Perhaps this indicates that whilst morally, killing can't be condoned, the fact the ZPoc has arrived means morals are out of the window, and only survival matters.

Ben: The guy is a complete f*&k up. He did what he thought was right with the bandits...i can deal with that. However on 3 occasions he left Clem alone on her own, despite explicit instructions to the contrary. Whilst indirectly responsible for Duck and Katjaa, none of that would have happened without many circumstances before Ben's arrival (not least the ZPoc), so I could get over that. It was the Clem issue that had me thinking. In the end I remember thinking, I might get the opportunity to utilise Ben in a tough situation later in the game, so chose to save him.

Only thing I want to say is that I noticed that some of the dialogue in Ep 4 was less deep. Answering questions positively and then negatively produced dramatic u-turns by the characters (not least when asking for help to save Clem).

For me none of this propositions really are "human", it's more a question of wether or not doing it will give something in our survival chances.

For Larry I chose to kill him after a moment of reflexion, killing him made me guilty but we couldn't know if he would come back as a zombie or not. And it was a too big risk.For Ben I chose to save him because even if he caused a lot of trouble indirectly there's no real reason to kill someone even if he is a really bad guy, and I think I like this character even so he is not brave.

If Ben winds up causing someone's death in Ep 5 AGAIN, say Clem for example, and killing him in 4 would've prevented that, would you still say it wasn't justifiable to kill him? In the same way Larry was a threat to the group (honestly, think we should've gotten rid of him and Lilly earlier) Ben is too. In the ZA you have to have people you can trust to have your back. Ben's fuckups aren't even because he dislikes you, it's because he is incompetent and nothing will fix that.

Actually, it would still be ethically and morally wrong to let Ben die if you could save him. You can't predict the future, and Ben's screw-ups are his responsibility - not yours. You can't sacrifice a person for what they *might* do. If you follow that logic, then Clem should be sacrificed because as a child she *might* draw the zombies to you through her inexperience. It's a slippery slope trying to claim that it's justifiable to kill Ben.

Ben's fuck-ups are because the rest of the group don't pay attention to him and don't keep him in the loop.

- The Bandits fuck-up was because Lily and Kenny engendered a hostile and distrustful atmosphere at the motel - so Ben was too scared to tell anyone what he was up to.- Carly's death was purely Lily's own paranoia brought about by Kenny's murder of her father. You can't blame Ben for something that was out of his control.- The school attack was because nobody told Ben that the zombies had gotten that far into the building and had send him out looking for something like an axe to break down the door. How hard would it have been for Kenny to say "oh, and don't take the axe out of the door."- Brie's death was because Kenny decided to force a vote when everyone's lives were in serious danger. Ben was stupid to tell Kenny, but he's a kid trying to deal with guilt that KENNY had been unwittingly been dumping on him.

The fact is, the more people blame Ben then the more likely he'll screw up. What Ben needs is to have someone believe in him and keep him informed rather than just boss him around. I believe he's going to step up to the plate in the final episode.

As for Larry - again, nobody knew if he would come back as a zombie or if he could be resuscitated before he turned. They should have tried to resuscitate him and been ready to kill him if he ended up turning.

How about survival instincts? If someone is constantly putting your life or the life of a loved one at risk, would you not kill to protect them? Lets give another example...a person is crying loudly in pain and he wont listen to reason...would you do whatever it took to shut him up if it would save your life?

Evinshir;717842 said:

Ben's fuck-ups are because the rest of the group don't pay attention to him and don't keep him in the loop.

How unclear is it when you say "if anything happens to clementine while I'm gone it is your ass." And then HE LOSES HER?!