Beamer wrote on Feb 14, 2013, 07:29:But man oh man, I cannot wait for Kickstarter games to start coming out. I can't wait for people to realize that the aspirational graphics they saw are not nearly what they got. Can't wait for them to see that the features they were promised weren't there, or the stretch goals are there but totally unrealized.Because this is going to happen. Not for the big ones, FTL was pretty much done, Wasteland looks awesome, but for some of the smaller ones? The early ones we backed because it seemed awesome and we were less critical then than we are now? We're going to get burned so much worse than anyone did here. I also think people are fairly aware of this now and much smarter about what they Kickstart.

Some small ones have already come out and I don't see that kinda tidal wave of kickstarter criticism. Such as Guns of Icarus online (which is now avail on steam).The problems seem more to be that some of the smaller ones ran out of money and may not be released in a timely manner (or at all?). Such as one I backed announced a year delay.

Even if that kinda does happen, why would you be gleeful and anticipatory about it? Is having your personal beliefs validated worth destroying an entire system of alternative game funding to you?

I'm not being gleeful. It was a figure of speech.I have over a thousand bucks in kickstarter games. I'm not eager to see them crash, I just know they will, particularly some of the early ones.

Beamer wrote on Feb 14, 2013, 07:29:But man oh man, I cannot wait for Kickstarter games to start coming out. I can't wait for people to realize that the aspirational graphics they saw are not nearly what they got. Can't wait for them to see that the features they were promised weren't there, or the stretch goals are there but totally unrealized.Because this is going to happen. Not for the big ones, FTL was pretty much done, Wasteland looks awesome, but for some of the smaller ones? The early ones we backed because it seemed awesome and we were less critical then than we are now? We're going to get burned so much worse than anyone did here. I also think people are fairly aware of this now and much smarter about what they Kickstart.

Some small ones have already come out and I don't see that kinda tidal wave of kickstarter criticism. Such as Guns of Icarus online (which is now avail on steam).The problems seem more to be that some of the smaller ones ran out of money and may not be released in a timely manner (or at all?). Such as one I backed announced a year delay.

Even if that kinda thing does happen, why would you be so gleeful and anticipatory about it? Is having your personal beliefs about this subject validated worth more than destroying an entire system of alternative game funding to you?

In fact, the videos released in the two weeks before launch showed exactly what we got, didn't they? The ones that were mercilessly laughed at? They didn't show extended footage, but enough so everyone knew what they were getting.

I mean, what are the damages. You, Cutter, had none. You thought the game would suck from the beginning (and you were right), and you spent no money on it. Other people bought it, but there was actual gameplay footage out before they did. Plenty of it. On this board we've had people say you'd have to be stupid to buy this - weeks ago. From there you can probably assume a reasonable person saw this coming.

And courts would never punish a company for showing a prototype. Car companies would be out of business if that happened. E3 would disappear, too. Companies would only show final versions of games, meaning we'd see nothing until release. People already bitch about no HL3 anything, but that would legally become the norm.

And where do you cut it? I'd argue that crappier graphics are less meaningful than losing features. Valve, though, are some of the kings of lost features. We barely saw any HL2 footage before release but we still saw features that got cut. And before HL Gabe made a huge deal about how it was a living, thriving world with flora and fauna. There was none of that. He said bodies didn't disappear, instead cockroaches ate them. I remember cockroaches, but they certainly didn't eat bodies (which disappeared.) Did anyone sue Valve?

Suing a company for showing a prototype whose features, including graphical features, got cut is worse than suing Drive for not being as Fast or Furious as the ads made it seem.

Which, again, doesn't excuse Randy. Gearbox fucked this up and Gearbox destroyed the trust they built with their fanbase. It should be years before anyone trusts anything they say. Years. But there's no legal repricussion here. What would the standard be? Laws are about standards that can be applied to all, and I can't write a way to punish Gearbox for this that wouldn't stop every single other developer from ever showing prerelease footage.

But man oh man, I cannot wait for Kickstarter games to start coming out. I can't wait for people to realize that the aspirational graphics they saw are not nearly what they got. Can't wait for them to see that the features they were promised weren't there, or the stretch goals are there but totally unrealized.Because this is going to happen. Not for the big ones, FTL was pretty much done, Wasteland looks awesome, but for some of the smaller ones? The early ones we backed because it seemed awesome and we were less critical then than we are now? We're going to get burned so much worse than anyone did here. I also think people are fairly aware of this now and much smarter about what they Kickstart.

Wallshadows wrote on Feb 14, 2013, 00:39:Funny how my installation only shows 6.2GB installed. I guess the other 13.8GB just vanished in to thin air?

Or you know, having enough HD space to download the install package, enough space to then extract it, and enough overhead to be able to install it smoothly. It's not like Steam compresses their install packs much, if anything it's just archived for the convenience of only having to download a single file.

Beamer wrote on Feb 13, 2013, 22:58:My guess is that the demo was DX11. We'd been told there'd be a DX11 version. My guess is also that the DX11 version was canceled, likely due to resources, and the console version (which was crappy to begin with) got ported.

We last heard that the DX11 version was in the works in November 2011 I think (could be wrong.) So... depending on when that demo was shown, it's possible that they knew that version was dead.

I posted this a few minutes ago in the other thread so I'll add it here since its the same topic.

This video of the unreleased WiiU version looks like it takes after the demo version. The docking corridor for sure looks like the demo version. And the video says its all in-game. This video was released in September.

That's the same trailer they played for all the versions. It's bullshit. If my PC can't display those, the WiiU sure as hell can't either. For whatever reason, they dicked us over on the graphics.

Beamer wrote on Feb 13, 2013, 22:58:My guess is that the demo was DX11. We'd been told there'd be a DX11 version. My guess is also that the DX11 version was canceled, likely due to resources, and the console version (which was crappy to begin with) got ported.

We last heard that the DX11 version was in the works in November 2011 I think (could be wrong.) So... depending on when that demo was shown, it's possible that they knew that version was dead.

I posted this a few minutes ago in the other thread so I'll add it here since its the same topic.

This video of the unreleased WiiU version looks like it takes after the demo version. The docking corridor for sure looks like the demo version. And the video says its all in-game. This video was released in September.

My guess is that the demo was DX11. We'd been told there'd be a DX11 version. My guess is also that the DX11 version was canceled, likely due to resources, and the console version (which was crappy to begin with) got ported.

We last heard that the DX11 version was in the works in November 2011 I think (could be wrong.) So... depending on when that demo was shown, it's possible that they knew that version was dead.

Typically not one to put any thought into a lawsuit or anything, but I hope someone has some money to blow and attempts to sue the shit out of Sega and Gearbox.

I hope people at least keep enough pressure on them that they're eventually forced to address the issue. Other than the first patch and BL2 info, they've been very quiet. They know their ass is grass, and they're hoping this will blow over.

I don't buy it. If it was a in-game demo I don't understand the removal of small touches like the bloody hand, the crack in the tube from the body, the falling down and jumping over the crates animations. That level is insanely small compared to what other games like the Batman series were pulling off with the Unreal engine to not have the HD textures as well.

Typically not one to put any thought into a lawsuit or anything, but I hope someone has some money to blow and attempts to sue the shit out of Sega and Gearbox.

Using a steering wheel on a Burnout game is like using the Space Shuttle controls to fly a kite.

I have an alternative theory. They only implemented that stuff for a particular scene for demo purposes, and it wouldn't have worked on a console, so it was cut from the game. It would have been extra work to re-implement it over the entire game just for PC.