Snapper Carr:Benevolent Misanthrope: Now, why couldn't they write like that for Voyager?

Stuffy moralistic dialogue like that sounds good coming from Patrick Stewart. Kate Mulgrew? Not so much.

Also, Janeway was in a completely different situation and didn't have the luxury of being able to keep to an inviolable moral code.

I didn't mean the homilies, I meant the quality.

But I disagree, at least in part. Janeway was indeed in a different situation, and having her be determined to remain true to her morals as an officer and a scientist would have made the inevitable breaking of that code far more powerful. If, that is, it were written by someone other than a couple guys who were far more comfortable writing babes in tinfoil and male officers who fark everything in sight.

Snapper Carr:Also, Janeway was in a completely different situation and didn't have the luxury of being able to keep to an inviolable moral code.

Which is rife with dramatic potential. A captain, trying to live by her own moral code, while trying to integrate a crew of rebels while so very far from home? The only way you could ruin that is by not exploring that concept and instead devolving into a threat-of-the-week which is resolved and never has any lasting consequences.

They really should have included his speech to the Tamarian first officer in that."Timak. The river Timak! In winter. Darmok and Jalad, at Tenagra. Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. The beast of Tenagra, his army. Shaka, when the walls fell.""New friends, Captain?""Can't say, Number One, but at least they're not new enemies."

serial_crusher:They really should have included his speech to the Tamarian first officer in that."Timak. The river Timak! In winter. Darmok and Jalad, at Tenagra. Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. The beast of Tenagra, his army. Shaka, when the walls fell.""New friends, Captain?""Can't say, Number One, but at least they're not new enemies."

I watched "Darmok" today. Such a great episode. "Tapestry" is also an amazing episode, possibly TNG's absolute best story IMHO.

HotWingAgenda:Without context, a lot of that just made him sound extremely wishy-washy and unable to commit to anything. He'd make a great blogger, but totally unfit to command a military unit of any kind.

jeanwearinfool:HotWingAgenda: Without context, a lot of that just made him sound extremely wishy-washy and unable to commit to anything. He'd make a great blogger, but totally unfit to command a military unit of any kind.

He didn't command a military unit.

Those ship-mounted lasers, torpedoes, and the handheld weapons his crew all carried could fool me. Plus there's the whole military command structure.

HotWingAgenda:jeanwearinfool: HotWingAgenda: Without context, a lot of that just made him sound extremely wishy-washy and unable to commit to anything. He'd make a great blogger, but totally unfit to command a military unit of any kind.

He didn't command a military unit.

Those ship-mounted lasers, torpedoes, and the handheld weapons his crew all carried could fool me. Plus there's the whole military command structure.

Starfleet 1.0 went into their exploration of the unknown with teddy bears and rainbows and it worked out brilliantly. I totally see your point.

I love the show but sometimes I think the writers just said "Fark it. Patrick will make anything sound profound". Also how cool would it be if he did a version of "The Tempest" in a sci-fi setting? The meta-ness of it all and the fact he is one of the best Prosperos of our time.

IMHO I think "The Inner Light" is one of the best works of sci-Fi in the last 20 years. "If you remember what we were, and how we lived... then we'll have found life again. Now we live. In you. Tell them of us... my darling..."

justabitdisturbed:COMALite J: Too bad Picard will never exist in the Trekverse thanks to the reboot. Neither will the vast majority of other characters in TNG, DS9, Voyager, and the TNG movies.

This is a GOOD thing. That way they can't screw up all those characters like they screwed up Kirk and Spock in the reboots.

/Bones is the only one they got right.

Agreed, but I was talking about the in-universe continuity. For a given person to be conceived, the same sperm must meet the same egg. That will not happen if anything in the lives of either parent was the least bit different prior to the conception. They might still have married and produced a child, and even called that child the same name (assuming same gender), but it wouldn't be the same person.

We're talking here about a drastic difference that affects practically every spacefaring sapient in the Alpha Quadrant to at least some degree, and anyone at all associated with Starfleet, the Klingon Defense Force, etc. even more so ― the destruction of Vulcan, the existence of which was a major factor in the prior timeline.

The way Trek time travel works is that it does not spin off an alternate universe. Parallel universes do exist ("Mirror, Mirror," "Parallels," etc.), but that's not the same thing: those weren't created by time travel.

In every case that I can recall (I admit to having bailed on Enterprise before the "Temporal Civil War" or whatever storyline got very far, so I don't know what all that was about), time travel into the past that altered the present altered the same present that the time travelers came from, and that alteration remained until either the same or other time travelers went back to correct it. These include "The Guardian of Forever," "Yesterday's Enterprise," Star Trek: First Contact, etc.

Since the reboot happened via time travel, that means that in in-universe Trek continuity, nothing that ever aired on TV or in the movies prior to the first JJ Abrams movie, with the sole exception of Enterprise, could possibly have happened, in any universe, any timeline. They were wiped from existence, just as the entire Federation was in "The Guardian of Forever" or the peace and alliance between Federation and Klingon Empire was in "Yesterday's Enterprise." Those latter two were corrected by time-travelers reversing the past alteration, but the J.J. Abrams one was not and will not be. Vulcan is gone, roughly a century before the time of Picard. No one whose lives were touched in any way by that will have the same children, so Picard, Riker, the Crushers, LaForge, etc. will never exist. Troi might (depending on how isolated Betazed was in the interim), but will never meet the Enterprise-D crew. Q of course is immortal, but will never have his favorite human to torment. Jadzia Zax, Odo, Quark, and Nog may conceivably (heh) exist for the same reason as Troi, but again will never encounter the Deep Space 9 crew (which likely remains a Cardassian station).

Stuffy moralistic dialogue like that sounds good coming from Patrick Stewart. Kate Mulgrew? Not so much.

Also, Janeway was in a completely different situation and didn't have the luxury of being able to keep to an inviolable moral code.

I didn't mean the homilies, I meant the quality.

But I disagree, at least in part. Janeway was indeed in a different situation, and having her be determined to remain true to her morals as an officer and a scientist would have made the inevitable breaking of that code far more powerful. If, that is, it were written by someone other than a couple guys who were far more comfortable writing babes in tinfoil and male officers who fark everything in sight.

t3knomanser:Which is rife with dramatic potential. A captain, trying to live by her own moral code, while trying to integrate a crew of rebels while so very far from home? The only way you could ruin that is by not exploring that concept and instead devolving into a threat-of-the-week which is resolved and never has any lasting consequences.

Oh... I'm sorry. I'm so, so sorry.

UseLessHuman:Picard had style, Janeway had a voice like Diane Rehm after smoking a pack of cigarettes and chugging a quart of whole milk.

Well, most of you would probably hate,and UseLessHuman probably like, what became of Janeway in some of the more recent novels.