to think this is just bad behaviour?

My friend has a 4 year who has regular 'meltdowns' where she kicks/punches mum, cries, shouts, screams etc. In these situations Mum keeps trying to restrain her/tell her to stop which makes her daughter worse. Last night my DD had a playdate with her and her DD had a big meltdown, my friend was in tears asking what she should do with her and whether she should see the doctor about her DD. She said my DD never behaves like hers and so there must be something wrong with her, but in my opinion it's normal (albeit bad) behaviour. AIBU?

My nephew was constantly told his behaviour was just 'bad' behaviour, until DB and DS-in-law finally cracked, took him to the doctor and it turns our he has a severe reaction to additives (e-numbers) and they trigger ADHD.

Of course, it could be just a behavioural issue, but these are often psychological issues rather than badness. Not necessarily medical, but still advice from a doctor could be beneficial.

If she thinks there may be something behind the behaviour, then I'd encourage her to have a chat with professionals. You may not see the full extent of what goes on and she's the one who lives with it.

Problem is, she asks how I deal with my DD when she acts like her DD and I can't answer as my DD doesn't act that way which leads her to think something is wrong with her DD. However I know plenty of children their age who behave like her DD and could give her some advice but it's very difficult to do so without sounding smug and preachy. Yesterday for example, she didn't talk to her DD once while she was playing nicely, she didn't forewarn her that it would soon be time to leave, the only attention she got was when she was screaming the house down. Friend then snapped and shouted, then cried because she was embarrassed about DD's behaviour and also felt bad that she'd shouted and her DD looked at mine and smiled - while continuing to scream, knowing full well the effect she's having on her mum. Her mum always says 'she's so tired' when her DD has a meltdown which DD has latched on to and uses as an excuse afterwards, but my DD does lots more stuff in a day than hers and never melts down. If she did behave like this and used tiredness as an excuse, I'd make sure the next night she was in bed much earlier and then when she kicked off she wouldn't be able to use the tired excuse!

I agree too Squeaky and thebody - at 4 they should be more than able to comprehend the idea of treating others how they wish to be treated. Therefore, if my DD even dared to raise her voice or hand to me, which she never would even consider in a million years then I'd ask if she'd like it if I behaved like that towards her - she would see my point, apologise and that would be that.

It was only when the police got involved when my daughter was 15 that people started taking her behavioural issues seriously. Before that I was constantly being told it was bad behaviour, poor parenting, lack of attention, too much attention, too strict, not strict enough etc. All along I kept saying, no, something isn't right with her. But nobody listened. She now finally has an ASD diagnosis, is getting the help she should have been getting all along, and is like a different person now.

Don't discourage your friend from getting her child assessed. There may be nothing wrong, but then again, there may be and only a professional can really say for sure (unless they're one like the ones I saw repeatedly who don't know their arses from their elbows)

Am I right or wrong in thinking it's generally used to describe when a child with SN 'loses it'? (for want of a better expression) You know where the word 'tantrum' doesn't cover it because it's something far more severe and is normally as a result of their SN?

If I'm right (and I don't know that I am) then I don't think 'meltdown' should be used to describe what is actually a tantrum from a child without SN.

The reason being, if everyone starts using the term 'meltdown'...it kind of detracts from how severe it really is.

Like when an NT child is playing up and the parent claims they have a 'touch of ADHD'.

Much as I have complained about semantic nit-picking on here before, I'm not sure I wholly approve of the idea that the use of the word 'meltdown' should only apply to children with SN, as if they have some kind of special radioactive ingredient. "Quick! There's a risk of meltdown! Thunderbirds are go! Manipulate the boron rods!".

If mum is concerned she should go to her dictir or HV to be referred to a paedritrician to rule out any sn. Yes children do occasionally have meltdowns, but f this is becoming a regular occurrence to the point of affecting the child and family than it needs professional input. How is the child's interaction with other chidren/ oeople. How is her communication skills?

Some 4yos do have meltdowns which are very similar in severity to those of children with SN, without actually having SN (or the potential to grow into violent adults).

At least 3 members of my family did (though in two of those cases it was possibly related to childhood trauma).

All three children were normally well behaved children, noted for their caring attitude most of the time, who would then have moments when they just turned into something different.

Two are now grown up, one is a teen, none of them have ever been in trouble at school or outside the home. But their tantrums/meltdowns were truly spectacular.

My mother, SIL and I, who had to deal with the respective children, found that disciplining after the event was pointless: during meltdown the child would get carried away to the extent where they simply had no recollection of what they had done afterwards; it would be like disciplining me for something stupid I may have said when under the influence of a GA.

What was essential during the outburst was restraint and the firm reassurance that "I will not let you hurt me, I will not let you hurt anyone". They needed to know that precisely because they were frightened by their own lack of control.

I don't think I'm a lax or timid parent in any way and I have never had a problem with disciplining my children in the ordinary course of things. But disciplining dd out of her tantrums - no, I don't think that could have been done, at least not without escalating the discipline to the point of outright abuse. Firmness and calm did better.

Never in a million years will I understand "ignore the bad behaviour". It just teaches children that it is acceptable to behave that way. Discipline is what is needed, not a blind eye...

Can you elaborate on what you have done it these situations, because at the moment it sounds like the classic response from nosey people in the supermarket, who usually say "ooh id never have let mine behave like that" but don't actually say what they used to do about it. Judging and nothing else.