Oh, and it got a new motor. A New Motor!

I'm not a big fan of sunroofs but if you remember the arrival story for our long-term Tesla Model S, Elon Musk personally made sure that our car had the glass top anyway -- and understandably so, because it really is pretty cool. Unfortunately, it's also been creaking at times (to my ears, often sounding like Dizzy Gillespie's Salt Peanuts being tapped in Morse Code).

And in an otherwise extremely quiet car, this really stands out. So much so that I usually find myself turning-up the music to drown it out (though I'd probably have turned it up anyway). The local Tesla Service Center had made a valiant effort to squelch the gremlin, but it came back, and so I scheduled another visit and the car was picked-up by their concierge service.Later in the day I received an email. "Is there anything odd about the car's steering?" they asked. I typed back "Maybe a slight clunk at full lock, but it's no biggie" (I've felt the same thing in many other cars). However, this was followed by a more ominous question: "Does the car shimmy when you stop?" "No, not that I can tell," I added, "but gosh, you're the service folks, so do whatever you think needs to be done."

A few days later I got another email "Your car will be returned today. We replaced a slightly out of spec right steering knuckle. And the drivetrain."

I read it again. Replaced the Drivetrain! "There was nothing wrong with the power unit" they noted, "but we heard a clicking in the transmission. The power unit isn't serviceable in the shop so we decided to be proactive." As if they were replacing a windshield wiper. Wow. The new motor might have a bit more low-speed hum but otherwise, the car drives exactly the same.

And let me guess -- you're tapping your fingers right now thinking Motor Trend's long-term Model S is simply being given the red carpet treatment. Well, I guess it's possible. But frankly, the sense I got from the service guys was that the whole episode amounted to just another day at the office. Which makes for an extraordinary level of service in my opinion.However the powertrain swap does lead us to the broader question of how well our car's been holding up. Answer: so far, so good. What with it being constructed of aluminum and other lightweight bits, I've been watching things rather closely, and it's actually been staying stuck together pretty well. (Helped, I'd note, by additional 'proactive' work back when its second-row cupholders were installed -- the bumper carrier bolts were replaced, while foam tape and Loctite was added to the body-sides bright-work, apparently to better secure it -- all at no charge).However, an area that has drawn our attention is the wear rate of the rear tires. After noticing a bubble in the right front sidewall (the curse of 21-inch wheels) the tire was replaced, and while we were at it, so were the other three a short time later (to maintain equal tread-depth all around). But before the new rubber went on, I measured their tread depths, and then the depths of the new (and identical) Michelin Pilot Sport 2's. At 9560 miles, the left front had lost at least 10 percent of its depth while the rears had lost an average of 38 percent of theirs. Is that particularly bad?I contacted expert Woody Rogers at the Tire Rack, who actually thought the numbers weren't out of line for these tires fitted on a car of this weight in this performance category - though he cautioned that tires wear more quickly at first with the rate only becoming linear (and more predictable) once they're at around 12,000 to 14,000 miles.

"For cars like Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, or the Cadillac CTS-V" Woody noted, "history has shown us that most RWD performance cars wear their rear tires at about twice the rate as their fronts. Realize that for performance cars it takes only a few ounces of pedal pressure to unleash hundreds of pounds of torque. And by that, I don't mean the driver is doing smoky burnouts from every stop light - just squeezing the throttle to move the car in traffic."And even though our car wears the staggered tire sizes that are part of the Performance Plus package (245-mm front, 265-mm rear) its ratio of tire widths (48 percent front, 52 percent rear) still isn't extreme enough to match the car's even greater rear weight bias (46 percent front, 54 percent rear). In other words, its rear tire-width bias is 4 percent while its rear weight bias is 8 percent. Twice as much.Making matters worse (for rear tire wear) is an electric motor's otherwise wonderful attribute of delivering its torque (the Tesla has 443 lb-ft of it) very suddenly, all the way down to zero rpm. "This," Woody added, "circles back to that few ounces of pedal pressure concept which might result in a little faster wear rate on the Tesla versus a conventional performance sedan. I recall talking with a Michelin race tire engineer who told me they had to redesign their racing slicks for LeMans when they started working with the Audi diesel program because of the diesel's greater torque and the wear rate it created." It's ironic to me that a car that's capable of the Model S's astounding efficiency -- we've been getting 86.5 mpge -- might also be inclined to wear its tires more rapidly.But there's actually even more going on here, as the rear tires of the Model S are additionally burdened with Tesla's unusually high level of regen (the motor acting as a generator) when you lift off the accelerator pedal. It's there for a good reason, of course – improving efficiency and range (and once you get the hang of it, it's kind of cool to virtually drive with one pedal in light traffic).So, being a guy who likes to see things as graphs, I did a brief test with our Model S and a handy Cadillac CTS Vsport, repeatedly pressing and lifting their accelerator pedals at 40 mph, while marking those instances with a hand-held button.

And the differences are visually dramatic as the sensations feel. The Tesla reacts almost instantly to nailing the throttle (there's maybe a 0.05 sec delay) while the Cadillac takes a full second to seriously begin accelerating. Meanwhile, lifting the CTS Vsport's throttle generates about 0.06 g's of deceleration, while the Model S produces about 0.16 g's – which is enough to let you do quick speed corrections without the time delay of moving your foot to the brake. Frankly, the shapes of these curves are of absolutely paramount in understanding why the Model S is so addictive to drive in the real world. While there's a handful of sedans as fast as the Tesla (and only a couple that are faster) none come close to its lighting reactions. You can dispatch unsuspecting cars (some of them, very powerful Audis and BMWs) with a violence that borders on cruel... but at the price of possibly wearing its rear tires more quickly.Oh, and speaking of driving – you guessed it -- when I drove the car home after the powertrain's replacement, the sunroof's creaking … resumed. It has another appointment next week.More on our long-term 2013 Tesla Model S P85+:

I've owned a Model S for a year and a half. Mostly, it's been incredible. I too had a squeaking sunroof. And I had an issue with one of my seatbelts and wipers. They have, since I've gotten the car, updated my software over a dozen times giving me new feature on my car (like hill assist, more funcionality on my maps and gps, and a few other things), added a titanium shield to the bottom of my car, switched my floor mats that tended to bunch up, and a few other things. Each time they did these things for free, I got a loaner Model S which was often better than my car, sometimes switched with my car that the picked up and dropped off after the service.

I could, like the "Romney told me Tesla was bad!" crowd, complain about the existence of these tiny flaws on my car from a new company that may save the US automotive industry. I could ignore that these changes were done for free, with very little inconvenience, and often with a free car wash thrown in. I could ignore that these flaws are part of the teething pains of a company that is now producing what is without a doubt the best car in the world. I could ignore that GM has, after many years and MILLIONS of cars, admitted to problems in their cars that many of these same critics actually own or have owned.

But I choose to focus on the fact that I trust that this company will fix problems that I don't even realize exist, or might not even exist but MIGHT become problems, without first considering the bottom line.

Tesla makes the safest cars in the world. And it does so partly because of the forward thinking mentality that allows them to replace a drivetrain even if it's just POSSIBLE that there might be a problem with it.

Proactive? Are you kidding me? Surely Motor Trend must be award that loads of Tesla customers have been complaining about a bad hum in the drive train -- you know, exactly like the hum your "new" drivetrain has. And Tesla has had to replace a lot of drive trains because of that. Looks like they grabbed your perfectly good drivetrain and stuck you with a bad one that they took out of a paying customer's car last week. I guess they figured you wouldn't know the difference, and you aren't paying for the car anyway, so nobody gets hurt, right?

It is understandable, but they should have been up front with you about slapping a use drive train into your car in order to have a better part to slap into the next paying customer that complains abut the hum.

I'm a Model S owner, and can attest that except for a few minor things, the car has been quite reliable. Had my vanity mirror covers break off, and the Tesla service center replaced it in an hour. Nothing else wrong after 8 months and 10,000 miles. The powertrain "problems" haven't been anything major. Mostly they change the motor in some instances where there is a humming sound at high speeds. Very few cars in the Houston area have had the problem. If anything, its a reflection of the great customer service Tesla provides. They have zero tolerance for any kind of customer dissatisfaction. If you bring anything up to them, they will fix it or replace it without question. Its a model all car companies should strive for. You won't get any GM coverups with Tesla. The company is continually monitoring forums for customer suggestions on improvements they can make through firmware upgrades, so the car actually gets better over time. I have had many more electronic and A/C problems in my Buick SUV, which was rated one of the top brands for initial reliability by JD Powers a few years ago.

wow it sound quite unreliable. if they had to replace the powertrain already thats bad. shouldn't those motors last at least 3 years? also why is a 100k car sunroof creaking constantly. why are they adding loctite on lose panels? i am impressed they put in a new powertrain.

but it annoys me more that you are not being subjective with this car. it sounds like elon is paying motor-trend staff to say good things about it. even when it comes to replacing a powertrain as a good thing. just imagine when they will have 4 times the customers they have now. thats quite terrible in my opinion. i stopped trusting consumer reports when I found out that they were taking cash to say a bad product was good. BBB did the same, so it would not surprise me that motor trend would do the same.

We know that Elon Musk had personally intervened and changed what would be in the car that MotorTrend had originally ordered (see MT's "2013 Tesla Model S P85+ Arrival" ). Given this, it is reasonable to assume that Elon Musk also instructed his company to (a) put the car through additional, more rigorous quality checks before shipping the car to MT and (b) pay extra attention to the car while it is with MT. Most other cars under MT's long-term testing do not come with the benefit of the car company's CEO personally watching and intervening. So yes, it is entirely appropriate for posters to question any 'initial quality' problems in this MT test car, given all the extra special attention that the MT test car had gotten from Tesla.

Second, Tesla's customer service is made possible by the company's increased revenues (due to the indirect subsidy Tesla gets from the federal&state tax credits given to its rich buyers as well as Tesla not giving financial incentives to buyers) as well as by lower costs (due to Tesla selling directly to car buyers at full price, instead of selling the cars at lower prices to dealers). The impact of the tax credits and direct sales probably generates an extra $5,000 to $10,000 revenue for each car sold (than would be possible if the tax credits did not exist and the cars were sold through dealers) -- part of this extra revenue pays for for their customer service. Another way of looking at it is that when Tesla gets a higher price for each car sold, this means that it is taxpayers who have prepaid for Tesla's 'extra' customer service to the buyer. Would Tesla be able to offer such customer service if those extra revenues were not there?

Being that proactive at the shop is just awesome. People want to play it up like "OMG they must have a major cover up going on!".

ooooor....ooooooooor...

they are a new start up company that sells very high end priced cars to demanding people and they are still building a reputation. What they pay for in the costs of being proactive, they more than make up in the super positive word of mouth reputation they are earning by being so, which will attract future and repeat customers. They are a small fish in a sea of Sharks trying to grow larger... they need any advantage they can get and super proactive service is definitely an area that is easy to improve upon when compared to the "competition".

That said, I'd like to see the stats on major replacements and why for my own knowledge base.

Tesla is very proactive. They are on errors like white on rice, other automakers are stone cold lethargic by comparison. Easy to do when you make a low volume of cars, easier still when the car is so elegantly engineered. The fact that you can change out the electric motor with such ease versus all the hell it takes to change internal combustion engines, and I have changed quite a few engines, speaks volumes about how simple yet effective Tesla cars are built.

Uuuuuhhhh....how expensive is this car and it's sunroof creaks constantly? Also, had it been an Audi or a BMW that had it's engine replaced this early in it's life it would be lamented as terribly unreliable.

Actually, as an example back when C/D had it's long term GLI the dealer replaced the half-shafts because the car was vibrating (turned out to be a tire full of fix-a-flat) and even though they discovered what was causing the issue afterwards the GLI was still called out at being unreliable.

I've been a passenger in a Model S before and it's a cool car, but I'm just not convinced it's the car it's made out to be.

Incredible car, but looks like you might as well buy a new pair of rear tires on your way out of the dealership.

The interior materials are well below a similar M5 or E63. Wish they offered a "Luxury or Designer Pkg" with upgraded seats and trim throughout. Outside of the screens, it does not impart a luxury car feel from the interior.

Elon Musk is a smart guy. Though I'm sure every Tesla owner gets great customer service, I'm sure Tesla is watching your long term updates a little more closely than the norm. They're the new kids on the luxury block and need to make a great impression with future buyers. I'm shocked they didn't airlift a team of people to come and replace the sunroof at the MT offices LOL. And thats very interesting that the near instantaneous torque is taking its toll quicker on the rear tires. But if you can afford a car like this I'm sure this isn't much of an issue for the targeted audience.

It's unllikely that every Tesla owner will get Tesla's red-carpet treatment to MotorTrend on the drive-train replacement. After all, wasn't Elon Musk personally involved in changing and re-packaging this Tesla ordered by MotorTrend? Do 99.9% of Tesla buyers get the same treatment when they order the car?

We should also take the claim "there's a handful of sedans as fast as the Tesla (and only a couple that are faster)" with a few pinches of salt. The example the author relates to fast passing from cruising speeds of 40 mph. But there are several other fast driving situations where the Tesla is not as fast or as capable as other cars. Furthermore, the Cadillac CTS Vsport perhaps isn't the best benchmark to use: according to MT's own tests, the 420 HP Cadillac CTS Vsport is essentially as fast as an ordinary 310 HP Audi A6 (without S-Line Sport Package) or 310 HP Audi A7 up to 60 mph and quarter mile, and the Audis are faster around MT's Figure Course than the Caddy.

A few months ago, I heard something similar from a Toronto Tesla sales rep when I took the Tesla Model S P85 for a couple of test drives on a dry day and on snowed roads: he claimed that the Tesla Model S P85 is faster than an Audi RS7. But MotorTrend Magazine's own test results indicate that Audi's S7 and RS7 are faster in a straight line to both 60 mph and the quarter mile than the Tesla Model S P85+ (even the base Audi A6 and A7 are not far behind the fastest Tesla). Furthermore, the Audi A6/A7, S6/S7 and RS7 are all faster in a winding road around MT's Figure Eight Course than the fastest and most expensive Tesla. Indeed, there is only a negligible 0.1 sec difference between the top-of-the-line Tesla Model S P85+ and the Tesla Model S 85 on the Figure Eight course -- which begs the question of the Tesla's handling and performance on a winding road or a race track compared to the Audis.

All these Audis have shorter braking distances than the most expensive Tesla, even the base A6 and A7. And the Audis will be superior in bad winter conditions, especially on a slope and in speed through the snow. Furthermore, the Tesla is not as easy a car to ingress or enter, and as the headroom, legroom and doorway are about the same as a smaller Audi S4.

It's time to subject both the Tesla Model S 85 and Model S P85+ to full comparison tests. But MT needs to compare apples to apples. For example, in MT's Six-Cylinder Midsize Luxury Sedan test, the top-placed Lexus GS 350 had the F Sport Package and second-placed the BMW 535i had the M Sport Package, but the Audi A6 was not equipped with its S-Line Sport Package. When properly equipped, the latest generation of Audis are consistently rated best in class by both top German car magazines (e.g., Auto Motor und Sport and Auto Zeitung) and Car and Driver magazine.

@BadShelby Bad Shelby: So this is the 6th time in this tread that you have said the same exact thing - In essence "The service guys "stole" a good drive train and stuck in a "defective" drive train in to MT's car so they could "sell" it to a paying customer the next day".....

I have a question: What article were you reading this from? Perhaps it another review by some other magazine because I never saw any claim by the MT reviewer that came even close to saying anything like your garbage writing anywhere in the article - PERIOD! No, It said the "drive train was changed out" for whatever reasons the Tesla service people based their decision on but nowhere does the MT reviewer say that the change out made things worse in reference to the drive train!!!!!!!! Yes, the sun roof squeaking did come back but the last I knew a car's "DRIVE TRAIN" has nothing to do with a sun roof on any car I know of.

I really get sick of people like YOU who constantly blabber negative drivel on things over and over and over... Don’t you have anything better to do with you time???

@TCrimson05 yep its better for the value of their stock since they are a new maker with rapidly fluctuations in value. this is all self interest, value of the company. But to be fair, what would happen in BMW or cadillac replaced an engine during the long term test? Do ya think MT would make more noise? I do...

@Michael100 Yeah, all these govt. subsidies paying for things that give birth to the internet, gps, and about a million other things that have kept this country the technology leader for decades. But luckily, due to the diligence of people like you, we can go back to the stone age knowing that your taxes didn't support innovation that your shortsighted little brain couldn't understand.

@Michael100Thanks for pointing out we shouldn't forget to look at the whole
picture, and see the true cost of Tesla - not just what a single
consumer pays for it. I'm curious, how much does the US taxpayer
subsidize oil companies to produce gas? How much would a gallon of gas
cost if the US taxpayer didn't police the middle east, and not just the
cost of the boats and planes and missiles, but also please be sure to
correctly value the cost of a soldiers life and multiply it in the 10 of
thousands when doing your comparative analysis. And don't forget the
environmental effects of burning gas, along with the higher health care
costs and degradation in quality of life associated with polluted air
and water.

I'm guessing the 'extra' customer
service the US taxpayer pays may just be worth a little less than what the US taxpayer has spent on subsidizing gas - if we were to look at the whole
picture.

@¿DeQuandary? Proactive? Awesome? They dumped a defective drive train on the Motor Trend guy. His drivetrain was perfectly good when they took his car to fix the sunroof (which they didn't fix). They returned his car with a used drivetrain that has the notorious humming problem so they could give his drivetrain to the next customer that complains about the humming problem. If I were a paying customer and they did this to me, I'd file a lawsuit the same day. In this case, Motor Trend isn't paying anything for the car so what do they care?

@carguycanada Not a "new" power train. A "different" power train. The one they put into his car has the notorious humming problem. it undoubtedly came out of another customer's car, and based on the humming reports, that humming drivetrain probably had 25,000 milers or more on it. Awesome. You go in to get your sub roof fixed and they take your drive train (and don't fix the sun roof).

No kidding. Although I would use the word "ridiculous" rather than "odd". These are nice cars certainly; I've ridden in one before. But they clearly have some quality issues including some pretty serious ones and yet those issues have been getting swept under the rug or downplayed just like we saw here by MT. [The car I was in had a very loose door panel; it separated from one corner when you closed it.]

Rattles and loose parts are one thing, but holy cow! New drive trains? And the author mentions it like what happened was a good thing.

I suspect we are seeing an over-correction by journalists to the fiasco purported by the NY Times; that guy definitely had a narrative he was going to "prove" even before he set foot in his test car. So since then, maybe reviewers are bending over backward to give the car the benefit of the doubt.

@Red SageWhat's interesting is that I don't think the Tesla has won any award for its exterior design, has it? For a car that's supposed to take us into the future, it s exterior design seems to have come from the past (to me, it looks too much like a Jaguar XF). Perhaps that's the reason why the Tesla Model S failed to reach the finals of the The World Car Design of the Year awards, much less win the award (although it did win World Green Car of the Year at the same family of awards). The World Car Design of the Year award is a prestigious automobile design award selected by a jury panel of 48 international automotive journalists from 22 countries. Search for "World Car Design of the Year" in Wikipedia.

@David Nelsen Nothing was wrong with this particular Tesla, other than the sunroof which they didn't fix. Awesome service, guys. They just grabbed this perfectly good drive train because they have had to replace so many of them due to the humming problem. It seems clear enough that they put a used, defective drive train back into the MT car so they would have a good drivetrain for tomorrow's paying customer angry about the hum problem or some other drive train problem. If they did this to me, I'd sue them, but MT is probably not paying anything for this car. Nobody gets hurt. Everybody is happy as long as MT keeps saying how awesome it all is.

@Black Dynamite Online I agree. The materials in the model S aren't up to par with other cars in it's price range. Especially considering things like leather are an option on a car with a nearly $64,000 base price (including a $7,500 tax credit).

@Black Dynamite Online -- I guess it shouldn't be called a luxury car really... I said this for some time about BMWs and Mercedes. They were 'expensive' cars -- not luxurious cars.

The Tesla Model S is effectively an 'Expensive Performance Economy' car. It was designed from the ground up to be different, and it is.

I've told people elsewhere that it is understandable that they have come to expect certain accouterments to correspond with a particular price point. But even so, when it comes to this car, you are mostly paying for the technology and the time frame in which you possess it. There are plenty of other cars at this price point that offer the things people protest as 'mysteriously missing' from the Tesla Model S.

Arm rests, storage bins, map pockets, lighted visor mirrors, snuff box, cigar lighter, the prerequisite 3.5 cupholders per passenger... Those are available on all the cars that have sought to mimic Rolls-Royce interiors for the better part of a century. There is a reason why they are called 'coachbuilders'. The guys who designed interiors and bodies for the first cars were literally building horseless carriages -- out of the same materials they used to make horse-drawn carriages. And in the same styles.

It's time to move into the future. The Tesla Model S is a step in that direction. Yes, it leaves a lot of the past behind. I'm glad it isn't stamped with 'Body by Fisher' on the doorsills.

@planblove Please explain how it was "great service" for them to take his power train and replace it with a defective one, and not fix the original sunroof problem. Tesla is very definitely breaking the rules. Just not in a good way. Disruptive company indeed.

@Michael100 Actually, his experience is not surprising. A couple of weeks ago, I made an offhand comment on a non-Tesla forum about some play in my brake pedal, where it made a clunk sound when I lifted off the brake. Two days later, my service center e-mailed me and invited me to bring the car in to take a look at the problem since its not normal. Granted they have their growing pains, but if you spend time on the Tesla forums, you will see a preponderance of positive service experiences.

One of the nice things about an always on telematics connection is the fact that Tesla will contact you before things actually go south. Our family has owned MBs, BMWs and Lexuses and is by far the best service experience I have had.

@TB6MT@TCrimson05 Replacing a gas engine is a lot different than replacing an electric motor. A gas engine has countless wires, tubes, pipes, etc. that have to be connected to the drivetrain, gas tank, exhaust pipes, computers and has thousands of moving parts. An electric motor is much smaller and much easier to install. Comparing the too is comparing apples and oranges.

@jj_holiday12 @Michael100 Yeah how much would a gallon of gas cost if we let the middle east go unpoliced? Not sure, but your food could easily double in cost and you and millions of others could lose your jobs if gas was $8 a gallon.... As far as tesla and its cost, failure to subsidize would be much less expensive I expect...

What you said is philosophically interesting. Now, why don't you calculate and give us the actual cost of the subsidy to car buyers and car companies of gas-engine cars? That way we don't have to "guess" when we look at the "whole picture".

As for the extra customer service, Tesla is facing a lawsuit in Wisconsin: "the Model S owner who alleges that his electric sedan has been out of service for 66 days since it was purchased in March 2013. The car was reportedly shipped to Chicago for repairs, with a list of troubles ranging from faulty door handles to issues with the battery cooling system... "Tesla's the first company in the world that makes you sign a confidentiality agreement when you buy the car," Megna says... The Model S owner in the lawsuit claims to have not received any response from Tesla after asking for a refund three times late last year."

@Stootch@carguycanada Nah, they're not rich enough to short anything or they'd own a Tesla themselves. They're just part of the "criticize anything that the govt. helps to innovate so that we can cut taxes for the rich, which is what I'll be someday soon, once I grow a brain."

@David NelsenTesla is very proactive. They are on errors like white on rice, other automakers are stone cold lethargic by comparison. Easy to do when you make a low volume of cars, easier still when the car is so elegantly engineered. The fact that you can change out the electric motor with such ease versus all the hell it takes to change internal combustion engines, and I have changed quite a few engines, speaks volumes about how simple yet effective Tesla cars are built.

@Joshua Burstyn@Black Dynamite Online that is a hard sell, the car weights 3800 lbs without the battery and they can drop a car on it and it wont crush the passenger cabin... I doubt that is as light as possible. Everything is a tradeoff and when you have a car that weighs 4700 lbs with 443 ft lbs instantly available AND it has regenerative braking, it will eat tires.... It s just physics, and that is just the way it is...

I haven't pulled the trigger yet because I haven't finished all test drives. In the last three months, I've test driven and researched the Tesla Model S, Audi A6 and A7, Lexus GS, Cadillac CTS, as well as the Mercedes E Class, BMW 5 series, Infiniti M, Jaguar XF.

I'm still waiting for the new Hyundai Genesis and Acura RLX Hybrid SHAWD to become available. One can only hope. I am not a blind slave to any brand and I'm in no hurry to buy.

However, the standard A6 3.0T (without sport package) was tested to be faster on MT's Figure 8 Course as well just as fast on speeds up to 60 mph. My data below on the Caddy came from the instrumented tests in MT's "First Test: 2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport". My data below on the Audi A6 came from MT's "Comparison: Six-Cylinder Midsize Luxury Sedan" (note this was a A6 3.0T without S-Line Sports Package, while the Lexus, BMW and Infiniti were all equipped with their respective sport package).

I've driven both cars (as well as the Tesla and several other cars in this class) as I'm looking for a new car. IMO, the misperception that the Caddy Vsport is faster up to 60 mph probably comes primarily from its 'exhaust' sound -- yet, the reality is that the Audi A6 (without sport package) is probably as fast up to 60 mph. Of course the more powerful and expensive CTS Vsport will be faster at higher speeds but that's where the S6 is faster.

Similarly, we can use the data from MotorTrend's instrumented tests to compare the Tesla Model S and Audi A7 variants:

@Omar Sultan@Michael100 You both (Omar Sultan and Joshua Burstyn) happened to join the MT community at almost the same time two days ago -- so if you're really two different posters, then welcome.

In any case, if such positive experiences with Tesla's customer service is really the norm for Tesla owners -- and not just well-managed PR -- then eventually this great service will be validated in independent studies such as J D Power's U.S. Customer Service Index Study (which measures and ranks satisfaction with dealer service among luxury brands).

Tesla had better provide exceptional customer service since its revenues are heavily subsidized by tax payers through tax credits at the federal and state/provincial level. The Tesla Model S is not cheap: Tesla does not offer dealer/manufacturer discounts (which other car brands tend to give their customers) and Tesla understates its pricing by including the $7,500 federal tax credit in its advertised prices.

For comparison, the base price of the Audi A7 is $64,500, S7 is $80,200 and RS7 is $104,900 (not including manufacturer/dealer discounts). If other luxury car brands could sell their cars at full list price while giving their customers a $7,500 tax credit, they would have more money to spend on customer service (of course whether they actually improve service satisfaction will depend on the brand's leadership and execution).

The service centre here in Toronto has provided excellent service, often seeing me the same day after I broke something. I've received service far beyond what I expected or deserved. When I had a minor fender bender they fixed my car same day and at cost. No labour, no disposal or shop costs....

The car is always returned to me clean totally detailed and earlier than promised.

@Red Sage@Michael100 So far, I've narrowed it down to the two Audis, Cadillac, Tesla and Lexus -- every car has its basket of pros and cons. I'm open to either sedan or sportback to replace my existing sedan (I already have a coupe as a second car).

I forgot to mention that I've yet to test a Maserati Ghibli (as well as the Hyundai and Acura). Last year I already tested the M-B CLS, Porsche Panamera and BMW 6 Series Gran Coupe but ruled them out in favor of the Audi A7 for its overall value.

@Michael100 -- Cool. Nice to know you are doing full comparison shopping. That's what I recommend to everyone. Your original reply here seemed as if you had convinced yourself to get the AUDI -- not at all a bad purchase, at any rate!

Personally, I don't even like sedans. I especially am appalled by the very concept of 'sports sedans'. But the Tesla Model S captures my heart in mind in ways I've not felt since...

The Acura NSX... and the Chevrolet Corvette C4...

It's nice to see a vehicle that works on pure electricity, the way I have imagined for decades.

@Michael100@srt_charga I don't know if you can say the Vsport is more expensive than the audi A6. I have priced the Vsport at 59-62k with the magneto rheological suspension, the audi comes in at about 60k with premium plus pack. Its pretty close. You also chose the slowest test on the Vsport of 3 mags, others are getting 4.4 12.8-12.9 @ 110-111 mph. And if you check out the rolling start where the AWD traction is negated, the Vsport will open up a lead. I think rolling on from 40mph like in the story above, the Vsport will be notably faster than the A6. But, I too like the A6 better as it has the AWD value in all kinds of weather...though the caddy has better steering...

@Omar Sultan@Michael100@omarsultan Your claims that "The $7,500 is a tax credit not a subsidy and it goes to the buyer, not to the company" and "Because it is a tax credit, no one is subsidizing anyone else" and "The tax credit or state incentives do not impact revenue or profit for any manufacturer" are oft-repeated but misleading claims by Tesla fans..

It's very simple: without the tax credit, Tesla would be making less revenue. The huge tax credits to rich car buyers has an indirect impact on the revenue and profits of Tesla luxury car manufacturer because it enables Tesla to set a higher price as well as sell more cars at that higher price to more buyers. Thus the $7,500 tax credit to a car buyer ends up as an indirect subsidy to the car manufacturer Tesla.

A new luxury car (like the Tesla Model S ) that might have been priced at, hypothetically, $75,000 (minus $2,000 manufacturer/dealer incentives from Tesla) in the absence of a $7,500 tax credit... can now be priced even higher at $80,000 (without Tesla having to give any manufacturer/dealer incentives) with the tax credit available. Thus the tax credit acts as an indirect subsidy to the luxury car brand since it increases the total revenue/profit for each car by $7,000 ($5,000 higher price and no $2,000 incentive) and still increases the total number of buyers by, say, 5%. Without the tax credit, the higher revenue (from the higher price x greater number of cars sold) would not be possible.

Without the tax credit, it's likely that Tesla Model S cars would probably be priced a bit cheaper than they are today. The combination of federal/state tax and other incentives (made possible by tax payers) are not just a direct subsidy to rich car buyers to buy a certain type of luxury car, these incentives are also indirect subsidies to the luxury car companies like Tesla.

I don't think that the Tesla website offers any manufacturer / showroom incentive, does it? But the Tesla website makes sure to inform car buyers of "Electric Vehicle Incentives" given by federal and state governments but made possible by taxpayers. Some states that give additional incentives to EV buyers are West Virginia ($7,500), Colorado ($6,000), Georgia ($5,000), Hawaii ($5,000), Illinois ($4,000), New Jersey ($4,000), Louisiana ($3,000), California ($2,500), etc

So, your comment contains a number of oft-repeated inaccuracies, so let me see if I can clarify a bit.

1) The $7,500 is a tax credit not a subsidy and it goes to the buyer, not to the company. It is available to all EV buys including cars like the Chevy Volt and the Nissan Leaf. If you mosey on over to the Chevy or Nissan websites, you will see they represent prices the same way, but taking the tax credit into account in the advertised price.

2) Because it is a tax credit, no one is subsidizing anyone else. The federal credit reduces the taxes a buyer owes (i.e. they get to keep more of their money). If you owe less than $7500 in taxes, then you lose the rest (the excess does not carry over).

3) I am not sure the Tesla is any more or less expensive than the cars it competes with, so I am not sure if that is relevant to the conversation. The Cadillac ELR (MSRP from $75K) qualifies for the same $7500 credit. I would not be surprised if the upcoming BMW i8 will also qualify. Since you seem to be an Audi fan, the e-tron would also qualify for the credit. But, as noted above, the credit is also available to much less expensive cars.The tax credit or state incentives do not impact revenue or profit for any manufacturer. If they have great or crappy service, it because of their business decisions.

4) I am not sure what state subsidies you believe Tesla is receiving--I am aware of none. A number of states do offer incentives to all EV buyers.

5) In California, Tesla, along with a number of other car companies do gain revenue from selling ZEV vehicle credits to other car companies that have not sold enough low/no emission cars in the state - no public funds involved.

One other thing to note, the company-owned Tesla Service Centers are run to break-even, they are not a profit center for the company, which is a very different approach than the typical dealer service department.