Following up the question of in vivo demonstration of a Hayflick Limit
in vivo: Sydney Shall asked for these references. The Krohn referenc
is courtesy of Jay Zimmerman, also at StJohns, ypjzbio at sjumusic.stjohns.
Krohn also has a book from approximately the same period. See also the
Finch et al Handbook of the Biology of Aging.
Krohn PL Heterochronic transplantation in the study of ageing. Proc.
Roy Soc. B. 157: 128 (1962) (transplantation of skin; apparently this
was not different pigments but reversed anterior-posterior orientation.)
Stem cell transplantation (from PaperChase/MedLine)
1. Loss of stem cell repopulating ability upon transplantation. Effects
of donor age, cell number, and transplantation procedure.
[ABSTRACT ONLINE] Harrison: J Exp Med (1982 Dec 1) 156(6):1767-7
2. Loss of proliferative capacity in immunohemopoietic stem cells caused
by serial transplantation rather than aging.
[ABSTRACT ONLINE] Harrison: J Exp Med (1978 May 1) 147(5):1526-31
1. Effects of transplantation and age on immunohemopoietic cell growth
in the splenic microenvironment.
[ABSTRACT ONLINE] Harrison: Exp Hematol (1988 Mar) 16(3):213-
2. The decrease in long-term marrow repopulating capacity seen after
transplantation is not the result of irradiation-induced stromal...
[ABSTRACT ONLINE] Gardner: Exp Hematol (1988 Jan) 16(1):49-54
Richard A. Lockshin Dept. Biol. Sci. St. John's U. 8000 Utopia Pkwy
Jamaica NY 11439 USA/Phone 718: 990-1854/ Fax 718: 380-8543
In article <37lkp2$63m at infa.central.susx.ac.uk> bafa1 at central.susx.ac.uk (Sydney Shall) writes:
>Sydney Shall (bafa1 at central.susx.ac.uk) wrote:
>: Tsung-Jui Yeh (tjyeh at soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
>>: : I was wondering about the Hayflick limit for rapid dividing cells like
>: : ones that line the stomach and also cells of the cornea. Do these cells
>: : have the same Hayflick limit as fibroblasts? If so, why can these cells
>: : afford to divide so fast?
>>: : Thanks
>: Cells from different tissues display different Hayflick limits. This
>: means that some cells like fibroblasts may go through about 50 to 70
>: population doublings, in about 150 cell generations. On the other hand,
>: adult dermal fibroblasts, chondrocytes experience many fewer
>: generations. Lymphocytes seem in most growth media, to experience only
>: about 23 population doublings. So, at the moment we do not really know
>: whether there is one fixed Hayflick limit; the evidence available so far
>: would suggest that there are specific Hayflick limits for different
>: tissues. This clearly has important implications for the homeostasis of
>: each individual tissue.
>: Moreover, it is very well established that the same cell type from
>: different animal species show a species-specific Hayflick limit; this is
>: part of the evidence for the notion that the Hayflick limit is
>: genetically controlled.
>>: --
>: Sydney SHALL,
>: Laboratory of Cell and Molecular Biology,
>: Biology Building, University of Sussex, Brighton, East Sussex BN1 9QG, ENGLAND.
>: Telephone: +44.273.67.83.03 FAX: +44.273.67.84.33
>>>RESPONSE:
>>I think the major question to arise from this discussion is whether a
>Hayflick limit exists in vivo, that is in intact bodies. Regrettably,
>there is very little published evidence on this question. The only
>evidence that I can adduce is (1) Werner's syndrome, where a very
>evident premature ageing is correlated with a changed Hayflick limit in
>vitro, and (2) secondly a paper by Rohme in which he convincingly shows
>a correlation between both average and maximum lifespans of different
>animals and the life-span of there cells in vitro (their Haflick limit
>number).
>Both of these items of evidence are correlations; so although they are
>persuasive to me, I would say the question as to whether there is an in
>vivo Hayflick limit is completely open and unresolved.
>>The second question raised abou whether the Hayflick limit has an
>COMPONENT of culture conditions in it is different. I think that the
>question being asked is whether the hayflick limit is an artifact; this
>means, is it TOTALLY due to the way we grow the cells. There is no
>doubt that the way we grow cells influences the value of the Hayflick
>limit. But the direct question is: can we grow cells in such a way that
>there is NO Hayflick limit. This question has been directly addressed
>by one author, who has given the answer that for mice one can grow cells
>in the absence of serum and then they are immortal. But I understand
>that the same author says that this does NOT work for human cells.
>Furthermore, I observe that so far there is no published confirmation of
>this one report. So, I think that this must be viewed with some
>caution. Again, I would say that culture conditions modulate the value
>of the Hayflick limit, but the existence of such a limit is abiological
>property of the cells. The real issue in my view is whether this limit
>is a biological property, at least in part, or SOLELY,a consequence of
>the culture conditions. If the latter, then one should not look for
>genes which are important in this process. If the former is true, then
>one is probably justified in searching for genes which are relevant to
>the phenomenon.
>>--
>Sydney SHALL, Laboratory of Cell and Molecular Biology, Biology Building,
>University of Sussex, Brighton, East Sussex BN1 9QG, ENGLAND.
>Tel:+44.273.67.83.03 FAX:+44.273.67.84.33; E-Mail:Janet:S.Shall at uk.ac.sussex>Elsewhere:S.Shall at sussex.ac.uk EARN/BITNET:S.Shall%sussex at ukacrl>.
>.