Australian and Indonesian relations on the mend

Reporter: Kerry O'Brien

The Howard Government's first post-election steps to pursue a joint approach with Indonesia to curb people smuggling, may bear some fruit.

Indonesia's Foreign Minister has made a point of coming to Australia this week to discuss the issue of asylum seekers passing through his country on the way to Australia, rather than have our ministers once again traipse there.

In a joint press conference with Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer in Canberra today, Hassan Wirayuda confirmed that Indonesia would host a major conference in February that would include the countries asylum seekers have come from and Malaysia, through which many asylum seekers also pass.

Mr Downer joins me now from Parliament House.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Alexander Downer, how optimistic are you after today's meeting with the Indonesians that they are going to be genuinely throwing their weight behind efforts to clamp down on people smugglers?

For example, the coordinating minister for security has set up a taskforce and we're seeing already some progress being made in their security forces starting to intercept the whole people smuggling racket.

So I do think that we're making good progress with Indonesia and I've certainly been very happy today with the tone of the talks and the progress that we've made.

KERRY O'BRIEN: What are the manifestations of those efforts that you're talking about?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, first and foremost this regional conference bringing together, as you said in your introduction, a number of countries which are all affected by people smuggling is going to go ahead almost certainly in February, and I think that will be a major step forward in getting better regional coordination, not just between Australia and Indonesia, but also between Australia and Indonesia, of police forces, of customs officials, of immigration officials and the like, so that the whole process of people smuggling will be much better policed.

Secondly, I think that overall there is a tone and a record of action on the part of the Indonesians where they are taking this issue very seriously and they are beginning to clamp down, look frankly, as best they can in difficult circumstances, on this ugly people smuggling racket.

KERRY O'BRIEN: And how do you read Malaysia's willingness to play a constructive part in reducing the flow of asylum seekers?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, Malaysia have already taken some measures to introduce a tighter visa system regulating people going into Malaysia, and I think that also in a number of other ways which I won't go into publicly, the Malaysians are proving to be pretty cooperative.

So I think frankly what we're seeing after a fair bit of diplomacy over quite a few weeks, even months now, is a much better, a much more consolidated regional approach to this problem.

KERRY O'BRIEN: But is it true in that context that Malaysia just in the past week has given visas to something like 1,000 Afghans passing through?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Yes, it is true. Though I don't want to over interpret that because they've been, generally speaking, taking quite strong measures in relation to people coming into Malaysia.

That, it would appear, is a measure that they've taken in the context of the fighting that's currently taking place in Afghanistan.

But in general terms, I think it's fair to say that Malaysia has been responding pretty well to this issue.

KERRY O'BRIEN: The issue of inviting countries of origin to this conference in February - does that mean inviting a country like Afghanistan or Iraq or Iran?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: We'll have to wait and see. We haven't worked out the details of precisely who will be invited. There's been some discussion about that.

You mentioned Afghanistan -

KERRY O'BRIEN: They're preoccupied at the moment.

ALEXANDER DOWNER: That's right, and they, in effect, don't have a government. There are talks going on at the moment in Bonn about putting together a broadly-based government in Afghanistan.

I can't say between now and February what the environment will be like in Afghanistan.

KERRY O'BRIEN: Presumably you wouldn't expect a country like Iraq to send someone to a conference talking about people who in many instances are actually fleeing that regime.

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, whether they're actually fleeing the regime or not, there are certainly quite a number of Iraqis who are involved in this people smuggling operation, there's no question of that.

KERRY O'BRIEN: But you'd invite a country like Iraq?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, whether they'd be invited or not is not something we've got around to yet.

KERRY O'BRIEN: The war on terrorism - President Bush and his key advisers seem to have cranked up their rhetoric on Iraq.

How do you read comments directed at Iraq from President Bush, like, "Afghanistan is just the beginning," in direct response to a question on Iraq?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, I wouldn't over interpret those remarks.

Our interpretation of his remarks is that there is a major outstanding problem to be resolved with Iraq which isn't directly related to the war on terrorism and that is the continual concern about the development of weapons of mass destruction, particularly biological and chemical weapons capabilities in Iraq and the failure so far by Iraq to agree to United Nations Security Council resolutions, and in particular, to allow inspection regimes in Iraq.

So those are the key issues that remain unresolved.

As for the direct link between Iraq and what happened on September 11, any evidence of that is extremely thin and the Americans are not making strong allegations about links between the Iraqis and what happened on September 11.

KERRY O'BRIEN: By the same token, there do seem to be two things running this week in the way the Americans are responding to questions about Iraq.

One is a sense of unfinished business.

But the other is that when you talk about weapons of mass destruction, President Bush and others do seem to be talking about those in the context of terrorism, and in the context of Afghanistan.

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, as far as Iraq is concerned, what the Americans have been doing since this administration came to power and for that matter before - under the Clinton Administration - is trying to find a way forward in terms of dealing with Iraq after what I would describe as the failure really of UNSCOM, and that still has not been resolved.

As you know, there are substantial sanctions on Iraq, quite controversial sanctions, but there isn't at this stage any breakthrough in terms of getting proper inspections and the commitments everyone wants from the Iraqis to the elimination of any weapons of mass destruction capability, and that is the unfinished business.

KERRY O'BRIEN: But if President Bush says to Australia and you must have at least considered this - "We've got good reason to move against Iraq".

Would Australia consider further military support, as in Afghanistan?

Is that an open question?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: As you know, we did provide support, albeit not in very large numbers, on various occasions to the Americans in their conflicts with Iraq. If such a situation were to arise we would look at it. It would depend on the circumstances.

The Americans haven't said that to us, that hasn't been raised with us at all.