I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

I posted here yesterday about a toilet in my house that has recently
turned into a lazy flusher (upon flushing the water spins a bit, then
stops and then the water level drops, but it's not flushing like it
did even a week ago). Someone here suggested getting an auger and I
did that. I was hopeful that it would be the solution I needed, but
after auging and then plunging a bit more I am seeing no improvement.
(There was a little paper floating around the bowl after I pulled the
auger out.) I'm making a few calls now to rent a snake. I think I'd
rather try to snake it than pulling the toilet as that sounds like a
messy headache. One place I called said they had a 100 foot snake for
$45 a day. He said they might have a smaller one around the shop
somewhere. I hope they do as 100 feet is likely way too long.
Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.
Thanks...
Mike

STOP!
The problem is probably still in your toilet. Renting 100' snake to
clear something in the first 3-4 feet is not a good idea. The head of
the snake will either be the same size as what you have on the auger,
or will be too big to get through the trapway.
I have cleared at least 100 clogged toilets as a landlord. I have
removed toys, spoons, the top of a water bottle, hair extensions, and
countless other items. Perhaps one of the most unexpected things was
a tampon applicator that got all the way to the bottom of the toilet
(where the toilet meets the floor flange), and got stuck sideways
across the bottom.
You can either continue with the auger or pull the toilet and see if
you can tell what the problem is from the other end. Pulling the
toilet is NOT a big deal. Get a #3 wax ring to use when you re-set
the bowl.
I have had items that I couldn't get out of the toilet, and found out
what they were after I replaced the toilet and busted the old one open
to see what the problem was.
I was going to post yesterday and suggest that you get a better auger,
from General or Rigid, that would have cost $40-50, but I thought the
cheaper one would probably work for you. If you really want to got
out and spend $45 towards fixing the problem, this would be my choice.
JK

Ya see, that's why I love this newsgroup! Good advice from
knowledgeable folks, and the price is right! Thanks, JK, I will aug
some more after work today and then consider pulling the toilet. My
father-in-law is arriving for an Easter visit tomorrow, so I will seek
his assistance on this (he's not a plumber, but knows a good deal
about home repairs).
Thanks again, Big Jake!!
Mike

I'm hardly the world's authority on pulling toilets but I was able to do one by
myself after watching somebody else do one first. Not much to it... run the
kids off, turn off the water supply, flush, disconnect from the water supply,
loosen the two bolts that hold it to the floor, and then muscle it off the
drain. Be prepared to deal with some water left in the bowl.
Scrape off the old wax ring and replace it with a new one. Slide the toilet
back on the mounting bolts and sit down on the throne to seat it into the new
wax ring. On and off shouldn't take more than half an hour for a newbie.
Chances are the cause of your problem will present itself very shortly after you
free the beast from the floor.
It might be a scary job the first time you do it but it won't be the second.
It's just not that bad... it's the dreading that's bad.

Sorry the closet auger I suggested didn't do the job.
If you do pull the toilet, go easy when tightening the hold down bolts
when replacing it.
You don't want to crack the base or pull the hold down bolts through the
pipe flange.
With no small kids in our house we don't have problems with undisolvable
miscellany dropped into our toilets and jamming in the traps, and rarely
have use for even a toilet plunger, though I do keep one in each bathroom.
However, a couple of months ago a good friend and his wife came to our
home for coffee and desert after we'd all been out together. The guy is
a giant of a man, tall and stout and he asked to use our guest bathroom
prior to leaving for their 45 minute drive home. He came out with an
embarrassed look on his face and asked me if he could use a plunger. I
showed him where one of those plastic "accordian style" ones was hanging
behind the doors which hide a clothes washer/dryer in that bathroom and
he came out a while later, saying, "It's OK now."
After they left I took a leak in the same toilet and noticed it flushed
extremely slowly. I brought up my closet auger and went to work on it.
The head of the auger came out stuffed with shite, and after augering
for quite a while there was some improvement in the flushing, but it was
still subpar.
I finally had to bring up my trusty and rusty 20 foot hand snake and
spent another 10 minutes or so running it in and out until the toilet
flushed as well as I'd remembered it used to.
That's why I commented about a metal snake run through the toilet
scratching the bottom of the bowl. There are some grey scatches inside
that toilet now which won't scrub off, even with a Brillo pad. They now
remind me of my friend's giant turds every time I'm taking a leak and
looking down there.
If that same friend ever asks to use our guest toilet again I'm gonna
take him aside and ask if he'd please shite in stages, flushing after
each one. <G>
Jeff

Jeff - the closet auger was a great suggestion. I can't believe I
haven't needed one up to this point. You mentioned your 20 foot
snake. I think I saw something like that at Home Depot yesterday when
I was getting the auger (I wanted to examine it a bit further but one
of the rugrats darted off into the Garden Department and I had to
go). What I'm referring to kinda looked like a flexible metal cable
inside a tea-pot. Is that about what you have? Maybe I'll go back
this evening and pick up one of those. I'm bound to need it again at
some point!
Thanks again!
Mike

Jeff,
Have you tried Bon Ami Cleaning Powder /Comet/Ajax to see if it will
remove the marks? Remove the water, then scrub with damp powder.
Some kitchen pans will leave metal on the sink, occasionally. It
cleans up with the powder cleaners.
Not a suggestion, but I might even try Muriactic acid and see it
helped. Maybe a half cup poured into the bowl.

Matter of fact I did try that, after sucking the water out of the bowl
with my shop vac. Scrubbing with Ajax using one of those kitchen sponges
with a Scotchbrite" pad on one side just didn't do it.
They're not really terrible, but I can still see them.
Jeff

Ahh stop a moment:)
Does the toilet flush solids fine with a bucket of water? if so the
interior water passages and bowl rim are likely the problem, its
easily solved for under 10 bucks and 15 minutes, no removing the
toilet necessary
you key statement was stuff spinning around,.

Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told you
all the wrong thing ! 1 I f you can't get it out with a toilet auger
then you need to lift the toilet . 2 don't waste your money on a big
snake just a waste of time , Take the bowl up use a waxring not rubber
as they dry out if you use toilet bowl cleaner . 3 Once the bowl is up
run snake thru the reverse way don't ever use rag wrapped to the auger
as if you get it caught in the bowl you have two plugs not one. 4 if
still won't work get a pro or if the unit is older than 15 yrs get a
new toilet. Iam a master plumber so you don't have to believe me if
you want. And when you seat a ring don't seat on it right off just
rock side to side and back to front slowly rocking when you have ot
on the floor solid then seat slowly on it , if you seat on it right
away you push wax over your pipe opening.

you
The muriatic acid solution that was posted here was one of the better
tips I've ever had, especially since I had spent $300.00 having my
lines snaked not long before that, and the toilet still wasn't
flushing right until I tried that tip.When I saved the instructions, I
accidently cut off the part that said who suggested it, because I'd
like to give him credit. You know who you are, but I don't
remember...many thanks to you. Also, this group has been very helpful
to me, and I appreciate it very much.
Cheri

no thanks necessary but its me bob haller.
I stumbled on to it for a friend who was afraid she needed a new
toilet, its nice to help people.
I also promote rock salt micxed with water to kill tree roots in
sewers. its cheap and works amazingly well.
glad i could help, bob

better
I
helpful
no thanks necessary but its me bob haller.
I stumbled on to it for a friend who was afraid she needed a new
toilet, its nice to help people.
I also promote rock salt micxed with water to kill tree roots in
sewers. its cheap and works amazingly well.
glad i could help, bob
******
OK, thanks again. I have saved your name now, so when I post that info
I can give you credit.
Cheri

I read Bob's tip here. One day I was going to try it out. I use acid
for my pool and had some handy. My neighbor had a rental property
going on the market, so he asked me to do some handy stuff.
A toilet had a leak at the tank bolt - around the washer. It was a
slow leak. I found it using a paper towel and flushing the toilet a
few times. BEFORE I could even work one this nasty thing I poured
some acid in the bowl to start a cleaning process :-))
So, I removed the tank for the bolt replacement kit. While I had the
tank off I poured muriatic acid directly in the (throat?) bowl rim.
Allowed that to work; suddenly I look down and see an object. Get my
glasses out, grabbed the needle nose pliers and then pulled a syringe
out of the rim of the bowl. The acid had floated the syringe back
towards the throat and I could see it.
We have hard water, and acid will cut it from the rim holes. Faster
than using a coat hanger:)
BTW, It was a drug house so I can see how they must have hidden the
needle in the tank and it found it's way into the bowl rim, past the
flapper. A bad flush can then be any object in the tank getting past
the flapper and into the rim.

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