Yudron wrote:Although Nubchen was one of Guru Rinpoche's disciples in his heart--from a historical perspective it has been established that he was born well after Guru Rinpoche died. Even if you add up the dates of GR's like and Nub's birth in the Big Red Book, they don't correspond

Though I know little about Tibetan history, dates, times frames, etc., I thought that Nubchen Sangye Yeshe was one of the "25 disciples" of GR?

Dates, recorded years of lifespans and the sort within Tibetan history and the classic tales always seem to throw me off...hee hee.

Yes, according to the terma tradition he was. So, I am sure he was. It is only on the most prosaic level that he wasn't born yet.

Has it been approx. the same order so far and is it taking about the same stretch of time? It would be nice to be able to predict what will fall on what day with some relative accuracy!

They don't know yet. I just asked a lama for you if they know anything about the schedule. Nope!

He is going in same order--he will be starting with the main part of empowerment numbered 15 on the above link tomorrow morning and continuing from there.

There is some guess that the Guhyagarbha might start on the 21 and go through the 23, if that is any help.

An elderly Tibetan women is kneading her tsampa and talking to me as I sit across from her in my living room typing away. Every now and then I recognize some nouns. Another cluster of people have just finished singing "Tsog Khang Dechen" at the kitchen table are eating now, too. This is turning out to be a perfect way to recover from my father's passing a couple of weeks ago.

Has it been approx. the same order so far and is it taking about the same stretch of time? It would be nice to be able to predict what will fall on what day with some relative accuracy!

They don't know yet. I just asked a lama for you if they know anything about the schedule. Nope!

He is going in same order--he will be starting with the main part of empowerment numbered 15 on the above link tomorrow morning and continuing from there.

There is some guess that the Guhyagarbha might start on the 21 and go through the 23, if that is any help.

An elderly Tibetan women is kneading her tsampa and talking to me as I sit across from her in my living room typing away. Every now and then I recognize some nouns. Another cluster of people have just finished singing "Tsog Khang Dechen" at the kitchen table are eating now, too. This is turning out to be a perfect way to recover from my father's passing a couple of weeks ago.

Oh yeah, I am so sorry for your loss. But I can't imagine a better circumstance to be in right after

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

The Nyingma Kama Empowerments conferred by Yangthang Tulku Rinpoche have begun on March 15th at Orgyen Dorje Den in Alameda California. Many of you have been asking about the Peaceful-Wrathful cycle of empowerments so we wanted to give everyone this information.

In order to read, contemplate and practice the Guyagarbha Tantra or Secret Essence, the individual must have the corresponding empowerment. That empowerment is the Kama empowerment for the Peaceful and Wrathful pantheon of deities that lasts approximately two to three days. It very extensive because one is empowered for and blessed by each of the one hundred deities in these combined mandalas. The three higher empowerments are also given. It a rare opportunity to receive this in its entirety and especially from Yangthang Tulku Rinpoche, a great senior master who is highly realized as well.

The empowerment will be given from March 19th to March 21st. The "ta-gon" or prepatory wang will be on Tuesday March 19th and the actual empowerments will be Wednesday & Thursday, though it's possible Rinpoche will complete them on Wednesday. For those who wish to read translations of the Guhyagarbha Tantra (a restricted series from Light of Berotsana) or who wish to study with a qualified lama should go to Orgyen Dorje Den and receive this empowerment in order to have the complete authorization.

"This is something that you will surely not regret doing in this and future lifetimes."

Translation for the Chinese speaking community will be available for all empowerments. Lama Drimed Lodro will serve as translator.

Short notice--I won't be making it. Oh, well. I rejoice in the merit of others!!

May any merit generated by on-line discussionBe dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.

Today we finished up the Yamantaka wangs and moved into Phurba territory. One of the Yamataka wangs over the last couple of days came down to us from Manjushrimita... not the first we have received from that lineage so far. Just a reminder how bogus the claims are that way way back folks practiced Dzogchen without any deity practice.

Yudron wrote:Today we finished up the Yamantaka wangs and moved into Phurba territory. One of the Yamataka wangs over the last couple of days came down to us from Manjushrimita... not the first we have received from that lineage so far. Just a reminder how bogus the claims are that way way back folks practiced Dzogchen without any deity practice.

Hey so the fact that the Shitro wang is happening so much sooner than predicted: does that mean he is moving through the same order as other times like the schedule you posted from a couple years ago, but much faster? Or does it mean he is doing a different order at this point? Just wondering if there is an approximate sense of when it will end. I'd like to try to make it for sooomething..but have to juggle a lot right now.

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

Yudron wrote:Today we finished up the Yamantaka wangs and moved into Phurba territory. One of the Yamataka wangs over the last couple of days came down to us from Manjushrimita... not the first we have received from that lineage so far. Just a reminder how bogus the claims are that way way back folks practiced Dzogchen without any deity practice.

Hey so the fact that the Shitro wang is happening so much sooner than predicted: does that mean he is moving through the same order as other times like the schedule you posted from a couple years ago, but much faster? Or does it mean he is doing a different order at this point? Just wondering if there is an approximate sense of when it will end. I'd like to try to make it for sooomething..but have to juggle a lot right now.

Yeah... no word order or length except for that. It could be that he is going to power through all the rest of the Vajrakilaya wangs tomorrow and end with the Tagon for the Guhyagharba. So, it still could be the same order, just sooner because he is going faster. He ran a bit late today, and he is going as fast as I can imagine any lama going. It is customary to do the Guhyagarbha over three days, but he could do it in two (tagon Tuesday, done end of day Wednesday.) It could take up to the April 5 (three weeks) to finish the whole thing, but at his current rate, I doubt it take that long. If I had to guess... he may finish the Kama early, then go on to give the wangs of Terton Dorje Dechen Lingpa.

Yudron wrote:--from a historical perspective it has been established that he was born well after Guru Rinpoche died.

I just read GR died over in the Dzogchen forums too. Geez.... I'm really out of it... I never realized GR died!!

Well, according to any traditional history he certainly didn't but the Western academic historians like to project average life spans onto all these mahasiddhas. . .

I was expecting the practitioners view rather than academics on this forum. But more and more it seems practitioners are moving towards the view of improbability of the life of how GR manifest in this world. Which makes me question how practitioners nowadays view the whole manifestation of GR. Anyway, each to his own.

"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

Sorry, my friends. You are absolutely right. Exhausted late night boo boo. Substitute "left" for died. There actually is no historical evidence that I know that GR died in Tibet that I know of, either.

At any event, if you look at the tradtional dates of Nubchen's life and of GR's time in Tibet, they do not correspond.

The Guhyagarbha Wangs will finish up tomorrow with the wrathful deities.

If you are a Nyingmapa who has both money and time you should definitely get on an airplane and come out to Oakland International by tomorrow night. Why? Because the Kagye -- the famous Eight Commands -- empowerment should be given soon by my reckoning. I'm thinking maybe Friday, along with a few other wangs that day.

Then... get this... the empowerment of the famous Sutra that Gathers all Intentions (Dupa Do) that has a chapter devoted to it in Dudjom Rinpoche's History of the Nyingma (AKA the big red book). That is one long empowerment. It may take up to five days. And after that -- lots of Dzogchen empowerments.

Gyatrul Rinpoche has been attending each day, and during the Guhyagarbha Lama Tharchin Rinpoche has been there as well. There look to be a bunch of monastic Rinpoches up front, but I'm afraid they are unfamiliar to me.

Kirtu, There's no schedule--but it's being said that Kama will likely end by the 29th, and that Yangthang Rinpoche will then bestow the terma transmissions from Dorje Dechen Lingpa.

By the way, I loaned a friend a book which he just returned to me, and I was thumbing through it...."Empowerment (and the Path of Liberation)" by Tsele Natsok Rangdrol, published by Rangjung Yeshe Publications in 1993, and it goes into some detail about the specific empowerments of the Dupa Do, as well as the Kagye, and the Magical Display of Peaceful and Wrathful Ones (Guyhabarbha), as well as Lama Gongdu, which is in Rinchen Terdzo. It also covers samayas, and a lot of information about the relationship of various empowerment stages to various practices, etc.

For example for the Dupa Do there are said to be 2,440 empowerments!

It's a great book, I recommend it. I'm re-reading it now, after several years...or more.

May any merit generated by on-line discussionBe dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.

There is a strong wish by the Lamas at Pema Osel Ling that Minling Khenpo Tsewang Rigdzin will do a teaching intensive on the Guhyagarbha in the not too distant future. So Lama Tharchin Rinpoche sent the word out that all his students should be at Orgyen Dorje Den over the last few days for the empowerment. Amazingly, many did make it on very short notice. Very auspiscious! I hope ya'll can come to the teachings when they are announced. I have not received any formal tantra teaching from a Khenpo, and I'm sure it shows.

Yudron wrote:Today we finished up the Yamantaka wangs and moved into Phurba territory. One of the Yamataka wangs over the last couple of days came down to us from Manjushrimita... not the first we have received from that lineage so far. Just a reminder how bogus the claims are that way way back folks practiced Dzogchen without any deity practice.

Though I tend to agree with your sentiment at the end of this post, I have to point out that the tradition generally accepts that there were two Manjushrimitras and those wangs originated with the second one, i.e. one of the 8 Rigdzin Chenpo, and not the Manjushrimitra who was a direct disciple of Garab Dorje.

Yudron wrote:Today we finished up the Yamantaka wangs and moved into Phurba territory. One of the Yamataka wangs over the last couple of days came down to us from Manjushrimita... not the first we have received from that lineage so far. Just a reminder how bogus the claims are that way way back folks practiced Dzogchen without any deity practice.

Though I tend to agree with your sentiment at the end of this post, I have to point out that the tradition generally accepts that there were two Manjushrimitras and those wangs originated with the second one, i.e. one of the 8 Rigdzin Chenpo, and not the Manjushrimitra who was a direct disciple of Garab Dorje.

Hmmmm. I just asked Lama Sonam Tsering and it is his firmly held belief that it is the same Manjushrimita in these lineages from the Nyingma Kama deity practices as in the Dzogchen lineage. So, at minimum, the lamas are not all on the same page about that.