Matt,those are the pictures of pizzarium in rome, let me know what you think of it. His pizza might be a bit more crunchy at the base and some others like the one I went to near Fontana di Trevi might be softer, but the flavor is very aromatic. Let me know how your sfincione comes out this weekend. I will be going to Sicily all the way up to Venice in May for about 6 weeks. I want to bring back some origano even though I have a bunch of plants here. Ciao

Matt,If you have time please post pictures of your Sfincione Palermitano that you are making this weekend. Sounds great!Thanks,Norma

apizza,I will be looking forward to a report, also. I canít go there, but to be able to see pictures is great!Norma

ninapizza23,Thank you for explaining how the dough is made. I donít have that much experience in handling that high of hydration of dough, but I can learn. You are lucky to be going to Sicily and Rome in May, also.Could you tell me what kind of oregano you are growing? Do these start from seeds or do you need a small plant? I will try to look at the You Tube video you posted.Thanks for all the help you have given me. Norma

Norma427,I am sure you can learn to make this dough you just need some PAP, patience and practice. Watch the second video and you will learn how to handle the wet dough.The oregano plants that I have are the wild ones that grow in the mountains in sicily. I have not seen any seeds here of this oregano except the greek one with pink or purple leaves, not as good. The latin name is origanum vulgare.You may want to try Banana-tree.com for seeds, or if you ever come to Queens I will gladly give you a couple. I am becoming very popular in this forum, just kidding! Norma do you want to go to Italy with me? How far are you from Queens?

ninapizza23,I will try to learn over time, what it takes to make a great pie like you are talking about. Thanks for posting the links. I didnít get to try them, but will let you know if they work. Thanks for telling me the Latin name for this kind of oregano. I will also look on the website you provided to look for the seeds. I talked to my oldest daughter and she said she would bring me to Queens, when the weather gets better. My daughter has friends that live in Woodside that she visits often. I would really like to meet you. It takes about 3 hours for us to drive to Queens. You are so kind asking me to go along to Italy. I have a small pizza business at our local farmerís market. It is only open one day a week. You can see the market at www.rootsmarket.com . If you click under standholders and then scroll down, you will see Normaís Pizza. My husband and I used to have a Caramel Corn business at the farmerís market. That business was in operation since 1928. I had to sell that business when my husband became ill. I have only been in the pizza business since April 2009. I only have a pizza stand that is 8'x13'. You can see it on here. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9896.0.htmlI have a obligation to be at market every week. I would really love to visit Italy with you, but at this time I have to continue working. I have always heard so much about Italy and love Italian food and everything about Italy. That is why I said you are fortunate to be able to go there. I make and sell the pizza at market one day a week and it takes me one day to prepare the dough, make the sauce, and get all the things ready. Another day to go back and clean. I make a Lehmman dough for a NY Style pizza.You are becoming popular because you know a lot about making authentic Italian pizza and you are trying to answer many peoples questions. To be able to ask someone like you all these questions is amazing. You already know so much.Thank you for taking the time to answer all the questions.Hopefully we can meet soon.Thanks,Norma

I donít know if any of these videos are what ninapizza23 is talking about, but they are very interesting to me. They show how the people that are making the dough, donít use any measurements..I guess only do it by experience.

Norma427,I just noticed that you posted 3 new links from youtube, those show how to make focaccia genovese which is also different from focaccia pugliese. In Florence I saw that type of focaccia cut in 2 slices like 4x6" stuffed with prosciutto, mozzarella like a panini sandwhich. I saw your beautiful stand in PA, Oh my God, what a stong lady you must be! Woodside is not too far from me I am very close to JFK Airport. The ground in the backyard is frozen, so if you want in the spring I will dig up some oregano for you. Norma, you only sell NY pizza? How about arancini, garlic knots, sfincione,etc I am building my own woodburning oven for my backyard and I would like to build one to take it, hopefully in the near future, to some events. So watch out, move over Norma, here comes Nina, hey just kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ninapizza23,I just found those 3 links from youtube fascinating on how they mix the dough with no measurements and how they are mixed by hand. The way you explain the focaccia genovese sound delicious, too. I make panini sandwiches, also, but just from my regular Lehmann dough that is scaled down to 4 ounces. I open the dough and put them into the oven. In less than a minute they really balloon up and then are taken out of the oven..then to the panini grill. Thank you for saying you would dig some oregano up for me. I sell NY Style pizza, garlic knots, cheesy breadsticks, pepperoni pinwheels, pizza buns, and panini sandwiches and other things. I have never tried the sfincione, like you talk about. What is arancini? I never heard of that before. Thatís great you are building a wood burning oven for your backyard. Are you thinking about taking another oven to street fairs? I have been to many of them in New York. I really enjoy them. So many different foods to taste. I always say, do what makes you happy..Best of luck if you decide to take your products and introduce them to other people. I am sure you would do well, because you already know so much about Italian kinds of Sicilian.Thanks for posting,Norma

I have never tried the aranicni. The next time I come up to New York, I will give them a try. Do you make these, also?

Thanks,Norma

Norma,Arancini are so easy to make, you must try them. Growing up in a Sicilian household they were a stable at my house for Sunday lunch. It's a very simple food originally derived from leftover risotto.

Matt,I will have to try to make arancini before I go to New York..they sound delicious.

I have been thinking about the Sfincione and what I have read about the way Gabrielle makes his Sfincione like foccaccia that is so light and airy. I have mixed a biga this morning to see what the results would be. Since ninapizza23 knows so much about this, I thought I would try my hand at making a very high hydration dough like foccaccia.

Matt,I will have to try to make arancini before I go to New York..they sound delicious.

I have been thinking about the Sfincione and what I have read about the way Gabrielle makes his Sfincione like foccaccia that is so light and airy. I have mixed a biga this morning to see what the results would be. Since ninapizza23 knows so much about this, I thought I would try my hand at making a very high hydration dough like foccaccia.

Norma

Norma,I was thinking the same thing. I am going to go up to 80% hydration & am contemplating using a starter with a 2 day fermentation. I have been favoring my Ischia for a while now, so I'm trying to bring my Camoldoli back to life as I really like it when doing a 2 day fermentation. My only dilemma at this point is the bread flour to semola ratio, my gut is telling me 50/50, the sicilian in me is saying 100% semola. I found out that the bread flour that I was using before was actually what the italians refer to as "Manitoba Flour", so I must definitely pick up another bag. In North America it's commonly referred to as Western Hard Wheat more specifically, Hard Unbleached White Flour.

I thought since I was trying to make a biga for my regular Lehmann dough to increase the flavor of the crust and had failed at my first attempt, I would try to make a biga at home to see what results the biga would add to a foccaccia-type Sfincione with a high hydration.The whole idea of airy crust has always fascinated me since I see all this wonderful pictures of Sfincione and other pizzas on this forum with light and airy crusts.I decided to try and make a biga with KASL bread flour, a small amount of Caputo tipo ď00" flour, sea salt, IDY and to replace a small portion of the water with a wine my uncle made in 1968. I usually reserve this wine only for making ham at Christmas, but since this whole idea of Gabrielle using a mother dough, I thought how could this contribute to the overall Sfincione. I mixed the biga this morning and by the looks of it, maybe this time I got the biga right. The biga will be left in the glass bowl to rest for around 8 to 10 hours. Then it will be incorporated into final dough made with KAAP. These are the steps taken so far.I will post pictures and results whether they are good or bad. Maybe in time I will be able to make Sfincione.If anyone has ideas or comments on the way I am going about this, please post.

Norma

Matt,I am interested to see how your idea turns out. Please post on how you are progressing.

I donít know if this has been posted on this forum before, but I found this interesting how Peter Reinhart discusses all the stages of bread. It is about 15 minutes long. Since I can learn more from watching and listening, I found this video useful. Although he is talking about bread it also relates to pizza making. Peter Reinhart talks about 12 stages from wheat and bread as transformation.You can adjust the slider to the 12 stages from wheat or bread as transformation with your mouse. There is also interactive transcript on the right to follow along what Peter Reinhart is saying.

The Sfincione style pizza is finished. I did let the regular dough rise, did a rigenero 3 times and let the dough rise one final time, before I dressed the pie. Although the Sicilian pizza was good, it doesnít look like the Sfincione Gabrille makes. Although traditional Sfincione isnít dressed as this pie was, this was dressed with part mozzarella, part grated Parmesan cheese, pizza sauce that Steve and I traded, fresh pesto, pepperoni, parsley, half with red onion, sliced Roma tomatoes, oregano, some fennel seeds, and Italian seasoning.I will try again to make this kind of pie, but will go about it differently. Our family enjoyed eating this new pie. This was also a good experience using a biga and also using a high hydration dough.

That sure looks a pie fit to feed several hungry people alright. How long were your rigenero phases, and did they help make the wet dough more manageable (or otherwise help with the gluten development in noticeable ways) ?

I had 3 rigenero phases and maybe four if you count the vigorous mix I gave the dough when put on the table. Each rigenero was about 3 minutes, except the final kneading I did on the table with bench flour for about 4 minutes. I donít know when Gabrielle shows how to do the rigenero or rigorous kneading if the steps are shown in the order he does them. I donít think I would post a video of all what goes into making a special dough like this. The order shown, could have been reversed. The rigenero phases did help make the dough more manageable in each one. After the final kneading, I let the dough sit a rest for awhile. The dough was not really sticky then, but after I let it rest covered with saran wrap, it became sticky, again. If you look at the pictures, I think it did give better gluten development. I am not an expert on this, though. The interesting thing about this practice experiment was when a little dough had been left on the table, it dried and then looked like spider webs.If you have any other questions, just ask. I really liked this pie, but am sure it isnít anything like Gabrielle's. It was a really good Sicilian pie in my opinion. I will try the same thing again, but with different flour.

Matt,Thank you..I appreciated your compliment because you have been on this journey..and I am only new. I want to try a different approach the next time. The different things that would be experimented with are me learning to make and use a natural preferment at about 50/50 flour to water ratio. The other approach would be using rye flour in the natural preferment. I would like to see what results I could obtain from a new approach. I think I am moving away from the biga effort to see how a natural preferment could increase the airy crust..I still am looking for.I still don't know much about natural preferments, but maybe will post on how someone could help me learn.Keep me posted on your efforts.