curios question : what happens to great souls who dont accept christ?

is ticket to heaven based only on acceptance of christ ?..if yes there have been great souls and servers of humanity who didn't accept christ but their life motivated , inspired and uplifted millions..now what happens to such great souls?..would they not go to heaven for great services they have done to human race?

Dude, Its "Gandhi", you can't even spell the name correctly! Anyways, Gandhi would not be interested to take an insane like you to anywhere. Peace out and be respectful to people who truly showed the power of peace.

1.Jesus or for that matter, no Messenger Prophet of the Creator-God Allah YHWH everdistributed any tickets of heaven. They stressed for Truthful and useful beliefs and doing good deeds which the Creator-God Allah YHWH wants should be inculcated in the human beings.2.Jesus has no authority to send anyone to heaven or hell; it rests with the Creator-God Allah YHWH; Jesus is only a humble servant of the Creator-God Allah YHWH.3. We cannot judge anybody good or bad;the Creator-God Allah YHWH is to judge everybody.

There is a place prepared by God for those who did not receive a testimony of Jesus Christ while in the flesh, but after they have passed away when the truth was revealed to them, they received it. They are honorable men and women who were blinded by the ways of the world and receive his glory but not his fulness, therefore they receive a lesser glory.

You guys always think you are going to get the crown and the good seat ! Why are you so afraid of death that you have to manufacture this drivel, is your life so bad that you can't see that this is it, this is the good bit, the rest is just nothing like it is for every other living thing, death is how you get to be alive !

This life is a small moment compared to the existence of our immortal souls. I love my life, I am blessed every day by our creator, who keeps and perserves us from one moment to the next by lending us breath. And you should give thanks to him because you are indebted to him, and will be forever, and even if you were to dedicate your whole soul to he who allows you to move and do according to your own will, still you would be an unprophitable servent. Yet all he asks is that you keep his commandments, and you will be blessed forever.

You are only blessed by the fact that you have a job and a society around you that allows you to live your life in relative comfort. What makes you think that something as insignificant as you gets any special eternity over any other animal. Get over yourself, you are a hairless monkey that is only different to the other monkeys in that it became aware of itself. If that awareness is too much for you to contemplate then go and anguish about it in a dark corner and stop trying to spread your fear and angst to everyone else.

you are wrong, I am blessed because God has offered us all immortality, even you, if you would just keep his commandments. Are you now poking fun at my male pattern baldness? Just so you know, I'm perfectly comfortable with the fact that the troops have retreated to the rear a little. There are still a few stragglers holding the front line. The other day i was thinking of cutting my losses and bicking it, but then it would look like I was copying another guy at work so I nixed the idea. Still no reason to call somone a shaved monkey. Monkeys have realy ugly faces. not to eachother, I suppose, but to me they look pretty uggo and that's no reason to condemn animals to Hell either just because they look awful. You seem to be somewhat upset at an entity which you claim does not exist. That's pretty funny.

There is nothing funny about feeding such a dangerous ideology to the weak and simple, or indoctrinating kids in your fantasies. These stone-age ideas have caused untold suffering and misery down the ages and it is time ideologies that deliberately try to keep people misinformed and so keep them stupid - were consigned to history as a temporary aberration so societies can get on with real living for real reasons.

I agree, that the world should rid its self of dangerous ideas such as atheism, agnosticism, and the like, however I believe in the God given right to freedom of religion, or nonreligion. Whereas you seem to wish to oppress some pretty basic freedoms. The fact remains that as long as the world exists, God will exist.There is no better feeling than taking one's family to church every Sunday for a few hours to listen to inspired men and women share their knowledge of God, to hold daily family scripture study, to engage them in fasting and prayer, to help develop their young minds in a Christ centered setting with the assurity that the generations to come will have an unshakable foundation, grounded and settled in the faith of our fathers.Further I find comfort in the knowledge that while the families of the religious continue to grow in number because of our refusal to accept modern day trends which encourage small families in order to have more toys, your non religious families will get smaller and smaller.

The earth belongs to no-one or anything, it just is. A concept beyond a religious mind I know, but accepting that some things have no direct reason that is connected to your selfish self can be enlightening and broaden your mind.

I would have no issue at all with religion if it did not try to spread its lies and ridiculous ideas through places like this writers forum, and countries that subscribe to better religions and ways of life. Your christian religion especially has caused more damage to society than most others, including Islam. This is a historical fact and a continuing disgrace to human reason.

It is actually a very easy concept to understand however it is not true. The fact is that imperfect people throughout history who have claimed affiliation with my Christian religion have caused dammage to the world in spite of it's teachings, but the fact remains that all people religious or nonreligious are responsible for much sociotal mayhem. My own ancestors fled from the hate filled persicution of the antisemetic influences which took over Communist Russia. Yes Atheism is oppression as seen in its worst form. God willing, that wall has been broken down, and the resplendent joy of the gospel message has once again broken through.It is a light on a hill, and a standard to the world that a relationship with God is a facit to the true nature of happiness. Without the atoning sacrifice of Christ we would all be in darkness.I am thankful to receive light and knowledge from a truely divine source, the source of all knowledge.

It is a part of Indian history that Jesus and Thomas visited a King in Taxila and met him. Later Thomas went to Kerala as there were some Jewish tribes residing there; he preached Gospel of Thomas to them and many of them became believers in Jesus. Jesus himself remained in the Northern side of India and Pakistan as most of the Jewish tribes called the Lost Tribes of Israel were settled there and Jesus was sent by the Creator-God Allah YHWH to the Jews; only two of the tribes were in Judea rest were scattered in this area.

Thanks but please don't reveal all the secrets!. That area is already "a point of conflict" and surely this secret when revealed will add fuel to fire. So please keep all your secret knowledge confined.

We shall all be judged according to our works in this life in conjunction with our knowledge of that which is right whether gained in this life or in the next among the spirits as we await resurrection.

Watch a movie titled "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" based on the book that you might be knowing. It was a good book with alternate possibilities. May be you don't have to be judged at all! Being judged may not be a pleasant thing.

It's really a matter of time. There are many rich and famous men and wmen that never accepted Christ. Well, not as yet they have not. There is stil time for many to accept Christ. the ApostlePaul wrote in 1 Cornthians1:1-25> thatnot many of the smart guys and gals have been called at this time. So IQ has nothing on the not so smart people whom God does call in verses 26-31.

Don't give up though, all is not lost! God still loves smart people but many of these very smrt people are responsible for the state of our planet at this time. The Money people and those that lust for power have done more to bring about our planets down fall but they will all get their chance. Thse that will survive into the Millenium when Christ eturns will have time to undertand then for 1,000 years. As for those that will still be dead and not called yet by Christ will get their chance at the White Throne Judgement, Revelation 20:11-13. The good news is that Satan will not be there to annoy them any more with his wild ideas of survival of the smartest and fittest. All will be given time to see for themselves how they messed up and most will be happy to accept God's Ways. They too will realize that everything they thought they knew was only vanity, Ecclesiates. 1:2; 3:1-22; 12:13-14

religion I believe is good intentioned but controlingl,all the different schisms.leads one to question who's right.In doing so it detracts from the purely divine nature rooted in its spiritual princeples.Why would a loving GOD sentance someone like Gandhi to the pits of hell?Is that the God we serve I believe not, do I have tobelieve as the Christian or Muslim inorder to enter into heaven?Well I think not and believe mewhen Christ said the only way to my Father is through me,he ment for us to have faith and love and give as he did.Through his ways, living in his ways is how we inherit the KINGDOM of GOD!!!!!!

...already have my ticket and I am living there already....surrounded by it...satan's here too btw...can't seem to 'blow him off'.....he keeps stickin' his friggin' head into my life from time to time.....soon I'm gonna 'blow 'em up'.....

Accepting Christ as preached by christianity is a false concept thus is prone to many irreconcilable errors.

This one being a major one.

Christianity follows Jesus the man 2000 -+ years ago.

Which they rightfully called him Christ.

But the man whom they called Jesus taught his deciples to follow the Spirit Christ.

Any who follows this Spirit called Truth will then become Christ as He himself is.

Anyone who follows Spirit of Christ can be considered by their peers as Great men, though many of them are not...

while many religious men who are considered great among men are not necessarilly of Christ, for one cannot serve two masters.

He will hate one and love the other.

Those who are of Christ will have the testimony of the Christ as revealed by the Spirit of Truth.

Thus we see that the christian way of the confession of their faith in Jesus is nothing more than they building a kingdom other than God's Kingdom, and they use the name of the man who walked in the fullness of the Spirit Christ to do their work.

We will see though that even their works are not in vain except to themselves.

For their evil works will be turned into the works of God.and woe unto those who understand it not.

Well, as a Christian, you're a god-fearing individual. So, you're in essence trying to put the fear of god into me by saying "tick tock", because you're under the assumption that a god is waiting to judge me.

It's not interpretation. There is no god, therefore no need to fear death. Death is simply the end of my life. I am okay with that.

LOL, do you even read what you write before posting? You've uncovered the great mystery Cagsil. Congrats! I am trying to strike fear into you, to trick you into following Jesus Christ. Be afraid. What sense would that make? For you to simply follow the lord out of fear?

What is the thing that made you push God away? (this doesn't require an actual typed answer) That is why you lost GOD. Only you know what it is and that is between you and God, Same goes for earnest. Two people who decided on a different path.

The disgraceul thinking tht is behind this tick-tock threat of yours is the oldest of them all - maybe there is no hell but you should believe in case there is. Well you can get over yourself now, there is no hel, no heaven and no saving grace except hope for mankind to gin the ability to overcome its inbred fear of the other. A fear that is promoted by your religion.

It's not a threat. Time in our lives is finite, and we will die. You will die whether or not you believe in God or Jesus. I don't fear death, I don't want to die just yet, but I don't fear death. Cagsil doesn't fear death either, and he claims not to believe in God. Tick tock applies to everyone with or without religion.

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

I do not think or believe that I have chosen the wrong god, nor do I believe any other god will be there to choose from, it's not a pick and mix shop, it's the judgement seat of Christ, with those who are before it receiving their just decision.

Yes, I do understand that your beliefs are no different than any other religious denomination or sect in that you fervently believe your god is the one true god nor do you believe there will be a plethora of gods awaiting judgment on your soul. That is the same belief held by those other denominations, too.

First let me thank you for the earlier post where you explained about those who did not get knowledge of Jesus still being given the chance of salvation. That made sense but your following arguments, including this one, refute what you said. Note how the verse you quote along with many others insists that only through Christ can we be saved. Leaving many in outer darkness through no fault of their own.Back to the point about "Great Souls" forgive me for picking on Ghandi, he is the most obvious though there are a string of Rabbis and such that could also be used. Ghandi was very aware of Christianity. He wrote about it in magazines and publications for his Congress party. He admired the spirit of Christianity and urged peaceful co-existence even though the Dutch reformed church of South Africa helped to institutionalize apartheid and the Christian establishment of India segregated worship. Nevertheless, Ghandi investigated Christianity and was very aware of the message of Christ. He rejected the concept of Salvation by grace. He believed that Heaven was to be worked for by removing your personal Karma, no one could do it for you. Therefore by Christian doctrine, he is damned. Is this not so?

It has already happened so there won't be any physical or literal Coming of Christ or his retrun. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 was the Promised Messiah or the Divin-Guide of the End-Times of all religions.

I can easily explain why I have no faith. It's called religion, and there are many of them spouting the same faith based worship and obedience. I can explain that no one god out of many have ever shown themselves to be that one god. I can explain that many different gods have provided many different messages, all in contradiction to one another. I can explain that those choices have led to people slaughtering each other in the name of that god.

Not making a choice between the many gods claimed to exist is much easier to explain than the choosing of one god over another.

Yes, I understand that you would provide a childish response in order not to provide content that would show you actually have an argument. Make the claim towards others and not follow up with addressing the claim when it is directed back at you.

Yes, it was a childish response. Regardless, the fact that you would drop the conversation for a "we'll see when we die" response only shows you have no argument to back up your original unfounded and condescending assertions.

Yes, I know. So many followers of so many different religions boasting the existence of one god all have the same faith. Unfortunately, it will take a whole lot more than just faith when you have to stand up to a roomful of gods explaining why you chose one god over another. Good luck with that. I would hate to be in those shoes.

You are fooling yourself, because death is a state of total unconsciousness, therefore you and I won't see anything. You will be proven wrong, but you won't be conscious to know that your faith was in nothing but nonsense.

Uhhh, yeah I guess. I'm really just calling it like I see it... it's pretty depressing to know that there are millions of people out there that think their only future is them rotting in the dirt and becoming grass food.

Look I can go with a ton or comebacks here, like have you ever SEEN <random object>? Then how do you know <random object> exists? Insert words there like "one trillion dollars, a black hole, DNA, so forth and so on"

If you have to rely on things that you've SEEN first hand, then you probably don't believe in much. Sure, sure, they've proven DNA and black holes with all this scientific data and computer models and so forth... sure... Have you ever SEEN them first hand?

Just for clarification: those examples were rhetorical... I KNOW there are such things as DNA, evolution, black holes, and trillions of dollars. I've never actually laid my eyes on any physical proof other than what I was taught in school...

You just said a mouth full!People are so afraid of the empty useless hopeless state of being dead and gone, they think up or cling to any chance of life after death.I know this is a devestating question...If there was life after death; why would you die in the first place?

You carry on living because that's what you be put here to do in the first place. Not wait around for the by and by. Or more importantly to me; actively work to destroy you and me and this planet to fulfill some plan for your "LIFE EVERLASTING" after you murder as many people as you can. Live die live again...whatever man.

Dude, I think alternate poet's on your side... well, at least, I think his question was meant for me. If there IS life after death, then why carry on living, why not just die now? Interesting question...

Strap a bomb to my body? If you come to my house, kill my parents, then kill my children and while you are at it you trash the whole neighbourhood so you can put an oilwell in it - you bet I would, and you can bet I would try to do as much damage as possible with it in your backyard.

Aand I am not religious in any way, just a normal guy who you could change into an abnormal guy with the quick flip of a missile firing switch from a safe distance.

Ah- an honest answer. I have never met a genuine Christian who would forgive them. Which rather makes the holier-than-thou posturing a complete hypocrisy and proves the christian religion is worthless.

I mean - obviously you do not stick to the values you claim will be handing you eternal life in a platter - what makes you think you still get to live forever? Meaningless drivel that is guaranteed to cause conflicts. Christians are no better or worse (unless you consider claiming to be better to be hypocrisy - which I do) than anyone else.

So why don't you drop your irrational beliefs and this impractical nonsense - which you do not follow - about forgiving thy fellow man and we can both work towards developing an ethical value system that we can agree to stick to?

Because you are not actually a christian - you admit you would strap a bomb to yourself in order to extract revenge, you agree you do nothing particular to help any one unless they come and ask you, yet some how you think you will magically live forever.

I am assuming you have not actually read the babble, because there is a biiiig list of stuff in there for you to do. Simply mouthing "I accept Jesus Christ as my Savior," is not going to cut it.

The issue is that if as the christians would have it everything is pre-determined and if you just sit around believing one particular version of a book for a while you then go to a 'better place' - anyone who believes this would surely just get on with, get born, spawn a binload of duplicate dimwits and die - or better still get a free pass by dying young, oh, after some ritual getting your hair wet I suppose.

I'm a little foggy on the predetermination you mentioned. I better call my pastor and ask if I believe in that... Just kidding.

I'm not entirely sure anything is predetermined in OUR lives. Jesus' life was predetermined, or his death, but my salvation wasn't. Baptism has nothing to do with salvation, not according to the Bible anyhow.

Is there a difference in Christianity's God knowing what will happen, and it already being set in stone? To understand that, we would have to dumb everything down to a human level. I don't pretend to know everything about God, as bad as that sounds.

I dont know... If you only knew how refreshing it is to here that from a Christian on this forum... I think you have a place in whatever heaven comes after this life. But I wish you peace in this life!

Then, by your own logic, you have turned to the myth of afterlife in order to ease that depression. Understanding that an afterlife is a myth only makes one cherish their life on Earth rather than spend their time being depressed.

That is a religious definition yes. I feel that when the last connection is lost, ie the chemical/electronic process stops what is knowable is that life is gone from that body and no consciousness remains.

If some highly compressed memory or transference takes place, so far modern science has been unable to detect it.I think we are a life. I love mine.

I think this has been fully explored in sci-fi movies. I liked the one where all the memory, character etc was transferred to a new body through some of kind of hard-disc thingywotsit - and the new incarnation took the dying previous person's clothes etc and then shot him kinda says it all really.

Great souls who do not accept Christ and is LOVE PEACE FREE are in the presence of the LORD forever because they lived out their lives in the foundation principles of life for the people on the earth and not just talked about it. LOVE PEACE FREE. JUST BE IT. THANK YOU very much for this question. Go in peace.

I just gave you a straight and simple answer to what happens to great souls who do not accept Christ. Christ is LOVE PEACE FREE and this is the principle for life on earth for humanity. Plain and simple for the everyday people of the world. Thank you. Go in peace.

This dead horse is risen from the dead and will now live on forever in your mind and the rest of mankind to know what to do with it because it will live throughout all eternity. Go in peace and not confusion.

It seems like you have an identity crisis going on. I know who I am, where I came from and where I am going. Apparently, you're message is skewed because you continue to bring a god into the picture. If you just talked about what you're saying as a simple message of philosophy, then you'd probably get more people to understand it.

But, if you continue with this pathetic thing of a god, then you are going to continually be labeled nuts.

It is not about me. I am just sharing with mankind of who he is and they can decide for themselves who they are to get the maximum benefits of living on this earth. What works for me will work for everyone because we are all human beings. Thank you.

I'd like to get back to the Original Post because it is one of those hard questions that most Christians prefer to hide from. here's two examples;Mahatma Ghandi: Studied law in London as a young man. While there he investigated Christianity and rejected it. He explained in later years that he could not accept the doctrine that salvation comes from outside of yourself. The notion that another could take on his Karma and the Karma of the world did not appeal to his concept of the Divine nature. So, according to Christians, with all the good he accomplished and though he worshipped and adored God in his own fashion, Gandhi is going to hell because he rejected Jesus as a saviour.Mother Theresa:A devout worshipper pf Christ. When a reporter asked why this frail old woman would go into the worst parts of Calcutta, raise lepers from out of their filth then clean them and make them comfortable, easing their passage into death. Her reply was 'I serve Lord Jesus Christ in all his beautiful disguises." Yet because she honored the Pope as the vicar of Christ and asked Saints to intercede, then the Protestant and Evangelicals will consign her also to Hell.I really want to know how Christians, claiming to worship a righteous God can place these people in the same after-life category as Hitler, Stalin, Ted Bundy and all the other truly evil inhabitants of the world.

For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.

He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation--he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ's name.]

The [basis of the] judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the Light has come into the world, and people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the Light, for their works (deeds) were evil.

Yes - just be good. Of course our definitions of good will vary, I see nothing good in blindly following a book based in ancient scraps of text and put together and translated by people whose aim is to control you. I guess that, along with evolution, you don't believe in history either ? War upon war fought by relgious 'good' people? Colonisation, murder, rape and slavery of whole culture with the cross of jesus carried up the beach first to give 'legality' to the slaughter ? The blatantly religious aspects of the christian backed war on Islam that is getting more and more of your young men killed in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

Actually all I was doing was answering your question about Gandhi and Mother T, you added the rest of the rant.

It does not matter what your or my definition is, as God decides finally who has accepted and who has rejected.

I agree with you that many times in history unethical men have used the cross of Christianity to start wars, but obviously they had never read the words of Christ, or had decided to ignore them, for Christ NEVER told anybody to kill for Him, so, by default, anybody who kills for Christ is not obeying Him, ergo they are not Christians, no matter what they call themselves.

Oh how you love ignoring context and spotting the gnat in folks eyes, whilst missing the camel in your own.

John 16:33 (Amplified Bible)I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world. [I have deprived it of power to harm you and have conquered it for you.]

You forgot to mention that this refers to the grief that the world (you included) will place on believers, not Christ, but YOU try to make the 'yoke' heavier... you also forgot that He stated: I have overcome the world. [I have deprived it of power to harm you and have conquered it for you.]

@earnest...hare krishna wont be bad idea altogether..atleast it wont talk about getting saved or 72 virgins ..they will say krishna is god head and christ is manifestation of god but that is being human right?..my daddy strongest theme..but they would also tell u to reject krishna and use ur brain and end with claim that in end u would find him...but they dare to say reject krishna and not get punished for it...since they believe in actions and not whom you follow stuff...

SOULS are judged by GOOD and BAD will.Not judged by religion wise and personwise.One person asked JESUS that WHO ARE THEY CAN REACH GOD .JESUS told that NOBODY with out gods gift.

How to find out good & bad will.Pl read the souls cry

Master we done lot of miracle in the name of you - JESUS said I dont know about you.I was in jail but you are not vist -JESUSI dont know master -when --THE SOUL. and so on........Our good & bad will get no credit in gods point of view.

Man, this thread is depressing.*Then why read it?*I guess it's like a gory train wreck, you know the rest.

Jesus Saves. Those who don't see that are hardened. Those that blame the Bible for being inconsistent are probably feeling slighted like a kid that dropped their ice cream. Cry all you want, YOU'RE the one who dropped it.

What's awesome is that all these people on these forums that are nay saying God's word are really just fulfilling prophecy. Keep up the good work, fellas.

now this is tricky too..jesus saves from whom?...jesus himself is said to be god..so does jesus save people from his own anger?..if yes shouldn't jesus work on his anger so that people automatically get saved..since jesus loves all...now if jesus saves from satan then why did he create satan at first place and why should people pay price of his own mistake?...it is for him to ctrl-alt-delete satan ..if he can't delete satan does that mean satan is more powerful?..well it is getting confusing...

We are all uique creation of GOD.One of hevenly person [i.e DEVIL] Who knows well about the creation.He tempt the creation , vibrate the blood of the creation and seperated from GOD.The creation came to know the NUDE,LUST,PASSION ,sleep, hunger etc..The devil control the creation.

[ In QURAN --Alcohol , Tobaco prohibited -these are blood vibraters]

GOD loves the creation .So gave guidence through messengers.GOD loves the creation and regenerate fully . GOD shattered the holy blood on GLOBE through JESUS and regenerate the creation fully. DEVIL failed .Butgot permission from god to tempt people .

Previously no judgement . After JESUS we got fully freedom to GOD and we can destory the DEVILS temptation by the way of using ourselfs.After JESUS the connectig line to GOD is clear.How to use ourself . This is BIG question .IF WE SEARCH WE CAN FINDIF WE ASK WE CAN GETIF WE KNOCK THE DOOR WILL OPENDont be a man who has good mobil and dosnt know how to operate and use.We are all having good body& soul.

After JESUS no suffering . After JESUS we can tackle DEVIL .He will disapear . [ JESUS tackled the devil at the time of temptation ] . Now we have the power . BUT WHO KNOWS THE POWER . Very few people .We are praising somebody for his holy speech. somebody for his miracle incident somebody for his holy lifeWe can tell that they are having GODS gift.Some body missusing the power.We have to USE not TEST.We are all having gods gift but dont know how to use.

Probably, he studied the Bible for 2 years, just for the sole reason to pick it apart and vomit it back up on command, apparently. I'm not going to get drawn into a Scriptural Food Fight... I've dealt with enough Mormons to know how far that will get you...

You MUST have been a Mormon... the brainwashing seems like it's still has a grip on you. I'm serious, you sound like one of Joseph Smith's finest! I know the book, and I do look at the religion. You seem inclined to simply look at the people of the religion, and stop there. Sad you can be swayed by the foolishness of others...

You won't get any better with practice because I guess you cannot grasp evolution, this is where you keep saying the same thing over and over without understanding that you are saying nothing - just flapping your lips - or your keyboard in this case, and then become extinct.

To grow, whether through reason or even within your religion you have to learn, and you seem to be determined to stay in remedial kindergarten in this respect. Cocky one-line cheap-shot nonsense defines who you are.

Hi earnest, yes I do understand the bible, but my question was relating to your statement above, your statement reads- Not any scripture I've seen. Are you saying you read the bible? It seems to me that you don't want to share what you really mean.

God is. Jesus is God. God created man. Man was tempted by Satan and man obliged. God knew this would happen, which is why Jesus' resurrection was planned from the beginning. After all, why have a Book full of your Word if you can't prove it?

All this "Why did God do this if he knew that would happen?" and "If Jesus is God this then why did God that?" God created the universe, along with everything in it, including chaos. Get over it.

Just a small flaw in that argument;Tablet's from 2,700 BC tell how Gilgamesh pleaded with the Goddess Ishtar for the gift of eternal life. So if we can still argue about Ishtar after some 5,000 years then she must be real, right?Earlier in this thread about "Great Souls" I posed the question of Ghandi and Mother Theresa, only two people attempted an answer. The one I would like to question is John 3:16. It says that God loves the world. Then it goes on to say that belief in Jesus is salvation. This is a contradiction because Jesus, for most of humanities existence, has only been known to a few. Even today, most parts of the world do not get to read the bible or the verse mentioned. How can God be said to love the world when salvation is given only to the very few who have heard of Jesus?

Christ is mentioned prolifically in the OT, just read Isaiah for a start.... ton's of references.

Secondly, last time I checked (about 15 years ago) the 'gospel' had been spread to 85% of the world tribal groups, and the main ones still unaware were in China, where there are multiple dialects that needed bible translation.

Scripturally we (believers) are only required to get the gospel to each tribal group, then it's the task of those in the tribal group who believe to spread the gospel through their people.

As to folk who cannot read....

Romans 1:19-21 (Amplified Bible)

For that which is known about God is evident to them and made plain in their inner consciousness, because God [Himself] has shown it to them.

For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification], because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks.

But instead they became futile and [a]godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened.

Here's the deal: you deny God, the Bible, and anyone who believes in them. You are serving your purpose well, prophecy is being fulfilled through you. You'll probably be the ones to push the mark of the beast on all Christians in a little while.

Don't think for a second that you have the control you think you do. The only way you'll be freed from your purpose is to accept Christ, so go ahead, I'll hang out till you do.

Very true, and I'm about as simple as they come, as you can see. My meager intelligence is no match for your infinite life experience. Experience that grants you such remarkable insight into the beliefs of others, and endows you with an endless supply of witty comebacks to anything that can be said on these forums that doesn't sit well with you.

@ Aquasilver; Thank you I do appreciate intelligent debate. I am constantly frustrated by those who duck these questions rather than facing them head on as you do.Is the verse you quote a contradiction? I get that those who do not, and did not, have access to the Bible could have some innate knowledge of God which they are free to accept or reject. However, John 3:16 specifically refers to Jesus. Other scriptures say he is the only way to eternal life. Doesn't this mean then that all those souls who had that innate knowledge of God and called him by different names or split his attributes into a multiplicty of Gods but did not worship Jesus Christ. These will be condemned becuase they did not worship a God of whom they had no knowledge, even though they may be "Great Souls" That is what the New Testament seems to be saying and what the preachers are preaching.

Generally it is held (in thinking Christian circles) that where someone has NEVER heard the gospel, then by default God will not judge them by John 3:16-19, but by the OT standards of 'righteousness', in other words by the standard of their lives in accord with the will of God, who (by the verse we discuss) they will have an innate knowledge of.

It's by this standard that the general belief is that babes and those too young to know will be 'super-saved' automatically.

I often wonder why people think that all powerful God needs our modern technologies in order to perform this task.

With the disciples preaching their message in all of the cities in and around all sea ports I do not doubt the fact that the word was preached throughout the world.

How many of the students of the disciples or even the disciples themselves might have boarded many of these ships and went with them to their homelands. Or Sailors and travelers of all kinds have heard and spread the word.

If God had wanted it to, it would have spread like the plague from person to person.

If we believe that God could not have accomplished this feat without our modern technology ; We would not be believing that he is as big as we say that he is.

We should not forget that it is written in scripture that Cyrus the great was given all of the kingdoms of the earth.

Understanding this.... what does "through out the earth" actually refer to.

Can we use this word literally in one instance and figuratively in the next?

Did Jesus not send his disciples out to perform that task? It is written that God does not give us more than we can handle. And yet he told THOSE people to get THAT job accomplished. I believe that they accomplished that assignment in that generation.

It is called engaing in the argument and putting your point of view backed with facts - and quoting bits of a novel are not facts they are opinions - and very old opinions at that made by people who did not understand the universe very well in respect to the things we know today.

What things are you referring? That God does not exist, he was replaced by Stephen Hawking? Quoting bits of a novel may not be facts to you, but it's still a point of view. You're starting to sound like a conformist.

I can agree with this - but it has to be seasoned with the reality that those without tolerance often go around attacking people - and not defending yourself does not teach them tolerance it encourages them to do it again.

Now, look, I know the track record of the religious wars and intolerance by some factions of "Christianity".

My question is, if the most I do as a Christian is to help people who come to me, and maybe post a little in a few forums, is that an acceptable form of Christianity?

I'm not an evangelist, but when a question is asked in a public setting I'll answer with my beliefs. I don't knock on doors, or protest abortion clinics or gay-rights parades <I'd actually be more inclined to protest KKK rallies>

I accept you for what you are- a human being. According to the bible and it's standards, then no.This shows you are somewhat tolerant.I don't have to accept you as a Christian. If you want to believe in a god, I don't have to accept it. I only have to accept your a human being. I have to be tolerant of what you say. I don't prevent Christians from voicing their opinions, I have a problem when they stipulate it as truth or fact. That's where 90% of the conflict comes.

Look... your a good guy. Therefore you're a good Christian, Father, Son, Indian Chief. Some Christians are in it for their own selfish gain, and their real personallity always comes to the surface as attacks on other people.

Oo wow, i like that philosophical touch, gonna preach it soon! thanks. btw, just for the sake of enhancing our knowledge, i met Jesus once and he seemed like a nice person, unfortunately non of his true self-proclaimed followers seem even closer, how saaadddd!

dante kelly wrote:religion I believe is good intentioned but controlingl,all the different schisms.leads one to question who's right.In doing so it detracts from the purely divine nature rooted in its spiritual princeples.Why would a loving GOD sentance someone like Gandhi to the pits of hell?Is that the God we serve I believe not, do I have tobelieve as the Christian or Muslim inorder to enter into heaven?Well I think not and believe mewhen Christ said the only way to my Father is through me,he ment for us to have faith and love and give as he did.Through his ways, living in his ways is how we inherit the KINGDOM of GOD!!!!!!============================================================

I agree!!

It is written that Jesus is the "Word" of God.

So it makes sense that the only path to God is through the "WORD" of God. Just that simple.

Just because it is written in a book doesn't make it true. Especially when that book claims to be from god but ironically is from particular geographical area shows that god failed to reveal his message in all parts of this planet at the same time. So when such flawed human written book claims something then only you're going to buy it.

The novel says - "and the word was made god" so it was a story made up in an attempt to explain the unknown in metaphorical terms - then the novel makes the jump to making its subject 'real'. I would prefer to follow some other fictitious hero myself.

Actually!!! It's not just words in a book...According to the documentary movie Zeitgiest(or whatever...) the story of Jesus Christ(including the Crucifixtion) is written on the walls of Ancient Egyptian and Myan tombs and temples. The word of God seams to be as old as Language and any other form of communication.

To that particular comment, I explained that in that example I was only talking about what is written in that book.----- skyfire I think that God did appear to many regions of the earth and to different peoples simultaneously.

I have spoken the truth to two diffrent children and the story appeared to be about different things even though it wasn't.

-------alternate poet Imaginary is in the eyes of the beholder I guess.

You guys are making my brain tired. I'm goina go fall down on the couch for a little bit.

Jesus never made trip to india and indian languages are not inspired by hebrew but sanskrit.Not a single asian religion claims about path to god with their religion only. Asian religions never claim to be the only path to god. Path to god or another dimmension can only be verified by dead-reborn people,and unfortunately they didnt last long to prove path of god. See the flaw?

he seemed to have been in a very selective mood that particular moment, may be he changed his mind later, lol , Heey, its crap man why there should be one way only- A Highway To Heaven. Well, i am quite happy on the earth

I'm sorry but it seems you got things the other way around. Anyone can arrive at this conclussion by simple logic but it was stated very clearly in Zeitgeist (and let me point out that I didn't particularly like that documentary): It's not that the story of Jesus was written on ancient Egypt before Jesus was even born, it's that the ideas of chosen ones, sacrifices, death and rebirth and lots of other things like that are imbedded in our psyches, and they appear with different forms in diverse cultures and eras. Perhaps I'm mistaken but from your wording it seems you're saying the story of Christ was written in ancient Egypt, which is an argument in favor of such writtings and the story of Jesus being the will of god. Well, it's not, it's the other way around.

Otherwise I could make up a song right now that sounds very similar to let's say Queen's 'We Will Rock You' and say that they plagiarized me.

It is more logical to say that christianity took this ideas that were present before them and put them together under a different name.

Love peace free are the principle for living life on the earth and through out the universe. Understand that? Free stands for the same thing. We are free human beings to live our life any way that you want to but there is reaping of what your free will decides and there is an automatic outcome from your decision. Understand that ? Jesus Christ established the way to live on the earth. Understand that? GOD created man after his likeness and image. Understand that ? LOVE PEACE FREE are some of his likeness and image. Understand that ? To live and have fellowship with GOD we have to be love be peace be free as Jesus Christ had lived on the earth. Understand that? This is who every human being is to the core of his being because GOD created us this way. Understand that? LOVE PEACE FREE is the mystery of life and how to live upon the earth and with each other as human beings. Understand that? I can not make this any plainer to you. Understand that. One more time. This is it. It is finish. Understand that? Thank you. Go in peace.

I just gave you the answer for how to live on the planet earth as a human being. Accept it or reject it. Your life will automatically bring forth what you put out in your life. I am only trying to help humanity what life is all about. I have a clear conscious with proclaiming LOVE PEACE FREE. I also automatically reap this in my life now. What are you reaping in your life? Have it your way. Thank you. Go in peace not confusion.

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