Hello there, I just completed case 3 and I must say some things got me quite confused here...

Spoiler:

First, it is said that Prof. Means' staff has been used to look like Phoenix's arm on the statue; that implies he wouldn't have it until the body is being moved at the center of the stage, so during the mock trial. However, at the very beginning of the case, we meet Prof. Means right before the mock trial, in the Lecture Hall... and he does have his staff at that moment. Does it mean the body would have been moved before the mock trial started (and also before Means' speech, because Juniper is inviting him to get ready to give his speech before Athena and Phoenix leave the place), but after the announcement inviting the students to get in the Lecture Hall? I don't know, the timing looks way too short for me. Not to say it simply contradicts the facts, as they're stated.

His setup was established to be during the mock trial. There wasn't any issue with the time frame, since once the trial started, his recording gave him a nice wide 20 minutes to work with.

He really should have kept a spare staff.

Spoiler: I have a question of my own

A certain issue comes in when Hugh testified to not seeing the professor. Hugh would have gone up to the stage after Means finished his "speech". Means' excuse of being in the bathroom would have been logical had he returned immediately after his work was done. What reason did he have for not showing up right after? He could have solidified his alibi just a bit more if he had other students notice him there up until the police arrived to stop the trial.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.comVarious official AA stuff translations currently in the works.Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

Another thing: what about the awl? Maybe I forgot that part, but did the blood actually belong to Courte? Was it the real murder weapon, or it's nothing but phony evidence (and the murder weapon is Prof. Means' staff/spear)? That piece of evidence seems to have been completely forgotten during the second day of the trial.

Spoiler: DD case 3

It wasn't the real murder weapon, but it had the victim's blood. I think Means put the victim's blood on it, since it was supposed to be used in the mock trial, so he knew Junie would take it.

He was supposed to get to that job of his earlier, helping to clear the stage of stuff and all, but didn't, maybe even slacked off. Then, he had to get it done before the stage was to be used the next day for the festivities, and he only had that time then to finish the job, since he's going to star in the mock trial later.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.comVarious official AA stuff translations currently in the works.Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

Another thing: what about the awl? Maybe I forgot that part, but did the blood actually belong to Courte? Was it the real murder weapon, or it's nothing but phony evidence (and the murder weapon is Prof. Means' staff/spear)? That piece of evidence seems to have been completely forgotten during the second day of the trial.

Spoiler: DD case 3

It wasn't the real murder weapon, but it had the victim's blood. I think Means put the victim's blood on it, since it was supposed to be used in the mock trial, so he knew Junie would take it.

Spoiler:

Awl belonged to Courte and was murder weapon. The staff had traces of blood, because he stuck it onto the victim's wound (staff was only a metaphor...) And it's not mentioned, because there is no longer reason to discuss it.

Last edited by Sligneris on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

"Ends justify the means." He wanted the trial to end as quick as possible, since he suspected Juniper was the snitch who reported him.

Quote:

Jozerick wrote:

Krayzel wrote:

Spoiler:

Another thing: what about the awl? Maybe I forgot that part, but did the blood actually belong to Courte? Was it the real murder weapon, or it's nothing but phony evidence (and the murder weapon is Prof. Means' staff/spear)? That piece of evidence seems to have been completely forgotten during the second day of the trial.

Spoiler: DD case 3

It wasn't the real murder weapon, but it had the victim's blood. I think Means put the victim's blood on it, since it was supposed to be used in the mock trial, so he knew Junie would take it.

Spoiler:

Awl belonged to Courte and was murder weapon. The staff had traces of blood, because he stuck it onto the victim's wound (staff was only a metaphor...) And it's not mentioned, because there is no longer reason to discuss it.

Spoiler:

No, that's not it. The awl was only used as a decoy. Means had one pointy thing with him when he confronted Courte. She would have no reason to have a painted awl with her, so he couldn't have held the awl in his hands at the time of the murder.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.comVarious official AA stuff translations currently in the works.Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.comVarious official AA stuff translations currently in the works.Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

Is there any unique dialogue when you claim Det. Arme is the phantom? If yes, what is that?

Spoiler:

There isn't. I mistakenly thought "the detective leading the evacuation" was Arme the first time I played through this case and tried presenting her profile, but got a generic response telling me I was wrong.

"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls

Back on page twelve or so I asked if there was any reference to Kristoph Gavin in the game...

Spoiler: 5-3

And someone said that there was, in 5-3 when talking to Klavier. I finished 5-3 a few days ago and I thought I had squeezed every last bit of text out of him through talking/presenting but I didn't see any mention of Kristoph. Does anyone have what he said or can point me in the right direction to find out what he said?

Back on page twelve or so I asked if there was any reference to Kristoph Gavin in the game...

Spoiler: 5-3

And someone said that there was, in 5-3 when talking to Klavier. I finished 5-3 a few days ago and I thought I had squeezed every last bit of text out of him through talking/presenting but I didn't see any mention of Kristoph. Does anyone have what he said or can point me in the right direction to find out what he said?

He didn't say anything. Who could have said otherwise?

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.comVarious official AA stuff translations currently in the works.Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

Back on page twelve or so I asked if there was any reference to Kristoph Gavin in the game...

Spoiler: 5-3

And someone said that there was, in 5-3 when talking to Klavier. I finished 5-3 a few days ago and I thought I had squeezed every last bit of text out of him through talking/presenting but I didn't see any mention of Kristoph. Does anyone have what he said or can point me in the right direction to find out what he said?

He didn't say anything. Who could have said otherwise?

The closest thing to a Kristoph reference in DD was

Spoiler: DD-5

When Phoenix mentions that he's seen the black Psyche-locks before

but even something like that is stretching it by a long shot.

"Your argument is like a naked banana--it simply lacks a peel." --Phoenix Wright

I apologize if this was discussed but reading through 12+ pages takes a bit too long for me...

Spoiler: at least 5-3, maybe other cases in GS5

Someone said that Kristoph is mentioned in case 3... Can anyone be more specific as to what that entails? Be as spoilery as you wish. Also, are his black psyche-locks discussed?

Also perhaps this is off topic but did anyone find the new emotion-type mechanics gimmicky and forced, or do they add nicely to the story?

Spoiler: Case 3,5

Klavier appears for a bit during the case to put on a mock trial, and Kristoph is briefly discussed. When Pearl shows up later in the game, she explains that black psyche-locks show up only when someone is hiding something that's a secret even to them, and could damage them emotionally if revealed. The ones relating to Kristoph in particular remain unexplained, however.

..."The ones relating to Kristoph in particular"?... Oh great, the unsubstantiated, yet overly popular "There are multiple meanings of black Psyche-Locks" theory again... It was the same type of locks, people...

..."The ones relating to Kristoph in particular"?... Oh great, the unsubstantiated, yet overly popular "There are multiple meanings of black Psyche-Locks" theory again... It was the same type of locks, people...

Spoiler: 4-1

What if... Kristoph never knew about Shadi Smith being Gramarye. He killed him, not sure if he's the real Gramarye or not? (Just a theory.)

"Oh holy father, holy Brother, holy master... My sacred mission is at last complete. With these two hands, mankind is saved. I am your will made flesh. In your name, I give thanks."

..."The ones relating to Kristoph in particular"?... Oh great, the unsubstantiated, yet overly popular "There are multiple meanings of black Psyche-Locks" theory again... It was the same type of locks, people...

Spoiler: 4-1

What if... Kristoph never knew about Shadi Smith being Gramarye. He killed him, not sure if he's the real Gramarye or not? (Just a theory.)

Spoiler: 4-1

I think that's a very possible theory but what you mean about the last part?

I'd say it's impossible theory. He would have no reason to go through that hidden tunnel at all, if it wasn't for seeing that familiar face. He would have also no reason to kill this man, Shadi Smith, if he hadn't known him.

Five Black Psyche-Locks appeared triggered by a question "Why did you kill Zak Gramarye?". For a secret, to let know of its presence, it needs to be there in the first place. There are two requirements for Black Psyche-Locks: It needs to be a suppressed memory of which secret's keeper doesn't know themselves, but there is another, an important one: Removing the locks forcibly is very likely to severely traumatize the subject. There is no way Black Psyche-Lock would appear over a simple misunderstanding.

Had fingerprints on the lighter been really Athena's, would WAA be able to prove Fulbright's cooperation with the Phantom (to which he "admitted" after discovering the forgery) and, what's more, the fact he was a Phantom?

He claimed to be Bobby Fulbright until Edgeworth arrived with the news... and then, the only topic was about the moon rock and the blood on it.

Had fingerprints on the lighter been really Athena's, would WAA be able to prove Fulbright's cooperation with the Phantom (to which he "admitted" after discovering the forgery) and, what's more, the fact he was a Phantom?

He claimed to be Bobby Fulbright until Edgeworth arrived with the news... and then, the only topic was about the moon rock and the blood on it.

Spoiler:

Probably not. Only two things tied Clay's murder to the Phantom: the moon rock, which no one could actually prove for a while since it was out somewhere in space, and the lighter, which the Phantom held in his possession. Though showing up to court may not have been the best idea he ever had, he'd be safe if he had taken the extra step of stopping by the museum to pick up her fingerprints. By the time the lighter was questioned as evidence, they found out it was a gun. Fulbright may have skipped over the usual protocol to verifying the validity of evidence, but without anything else to counter it, it would have passed.

The problem comes before all that, though. To even get Athena's prints on it, he'd have to know Athena would be lying unconscious in the museum. If he somehow did, he'd then have to ride along the moving launch pads to the museum, pick up her prints, and swap the pads yet again to reach that ladder and escape. However, Captain Segway, hero of the people, would have noticed the pads being swapped again. He'd then have to swap the pads a third time, so Launch Pad 1 and the museum would be in the right place. Either way, we'd be able to tie the Phantom into the case, via his psyche profile, all thanks to the photo taken just before the murder.

Then, the issue becomes "why would the killer need to swap the pads again, when he could have just leapt to freedom before the pads reached the museum?" And no, "he was hesitant the first time" doesn't count. The only reason would be that he somehow knew Athena would visit the museum that day.

But that doesn't make sense in the first place, since her visit was a coincidence. Even by the slimmest chance that he somehow got Athena's prints before the murder took place, he had to have a reason to meet with Athena, ask her to hold that lighter, and take off with it. Even he couldn't have foreseen things from that far back; Clay put up unexpected resistance and got his blood on the lighter.

Therefore, Athena's prints couldn't possibly have made it onto the lighter, and this what-if scenario is impossible.

By the time the Phantom's cover was blown, the lighter was proven to be forged evidence. The only thing left to use to tie him into the case was the moon rock, so yeah, they talked all about it.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.comVarious official AA stuff translations currently in the works.Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.comVarious official AA stuff translations currently in the works.Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

Not really something I want explained about the cases, but something about Pearl... can someone tell me if her intense fairytale view on relationships is the same as it was before? Or did she calm down?

Not really something I want explained about the cases, but something about Pearl... can someone tell me if her intense fairytale view on relationships is the same as it was before? Or did she calm down?

C-A

She never mentions anything that even hints at viewing any two people as "totally in wuv".

"It's never too late to learn that growing old doesn't have to mean growing up. Stay curious, stay weird, stay kind, and don't let anyone ever tell you you aren't smart or brave or worthy enough." -Stanford Pines, Gravity Falls

I read this on the wiki:"In the Japanese version, when Justice refers to a person, he says their last name (written in kanji form in the text box) as well as the common "-san" honorific, with only two exceptions."

I read this on the wiki:"In the Japanese version, when Justice refers to a person, he says their last name (written in kanji form in the text box) as well as the common "-san" honorific, with only two exceptions."

(The exceptions are Clay and Trucy)

What does this mean? I'm not familiar with Japanese culture

I think that means he's formal except with them because he feels confortable with them.

I'm pretty sure they knew about Robin's secret. Especially since they were best friends and weren't shocked by the secret.

No, if you ask Hugh after the trial, he says they didn't have a clue. Must have hid it well, that one.

JesusMonroe wrote:

I read this on the wiki:"In the Japanese version, when Justice refers to a person, he says their last name (written in kanji form in the text box) as well as the common "-san" honorific, with only two exceptions."

(The exceptions are Clay and Trucy)

What does this mean? I'm not familiar with Japanese culture

He's way too serious and needs to lighten up.

"-san" is the usual polite way to address someone. He refers to those two without an honorific since he doesn't need to. They're good friends.

Bonus tidbit: Sometimes it's crucial to add an honorific to Nick and Polly's Jap names because people can get confused over what someone is saying.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.comVarious official AA stuff translations currently in the works.Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

Just for the record, Robin had something of a different size. There. Everyone's been spoiled.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.comVarious official AA stuff translations currently in the works.Updated to include tributes and more to the Yakuza game series. I'm forever trapped in karaoke hell.

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