Thursday, August 29, 2013

Quitters Never Win

Agent Galaxy Pig, a chivalrous Knight of the Order, ganked and podded a foul criminal named Boliviani diGriz. Then Galaxy Pig sent her a standard-issue termination notice. This sort of thing happens many times each and every day. Business as usual.

Fortune was on Boliviani's side: Her dead pod was worth over a billion isk, further encouraging her to rethink her AFK lifestyle. We see better results when a miner suffers a crushing loss, as opposed to losing their money drip-by-drip.

Boliviani stunned Galaxy Pig by replying to the termination notice with a passive-aggressive EVEmail, rather than an apology.

In a tragic turn of events, Boliviani confessed that she had flown what she couldn't afford to lose. She should have thought about that before gambling it all away on an illegal mining op. Then Boliviani thought it over for a few minutes and sent another EVEmail:

I don't like it when people try to justify their bad behavior by saying they're doing it for their children. Be honest, people, you're only going to spend that extra, ill-gotten money on yourself. If you really want to help out your kids, set a good example so they don't grow up to be criminals. Anyway, Boliviani became even more fixated on the idea of quitting EVE. She couldn't imagine playing the game in a manner consistent with the Code.

Boliviani's defeatism came on the heels of several other miners announcing their intention to quit the game just in the past couple weeks:

Contrary to popular belief, it's not a bad thing when people quit EVE. The highsec community doesn't benefit from packing in as many people as possible. I'm in favor of quality, not quantity. We'd be better off with a handful of really good highsec players than having hundreds of thousands of bot-aspirants who contribute nothing. In fact, I'd rather the servers be completely unpopulated than have a single bot-aspirant online, if that's the choice.

A few minutes later, Boliviani set another EVEmail to Agent Galaxy Pig. She was still feeling sorry for herself and her lack of money. Pop quiz, hotshot: Was Boliviani really a helpless noob who was driven to quit EVE after losing everything from a gank?

Apparently not. A few hours later, Boliviani plunked down a 430 million isk bounty on Galaxy Pig. Then she put down hundreds of millions more on Galaxy Chicken, the other ganker who had assisted on the kills.

Galaxy Pig rightly called Boliviani out on her lies. If she'd been broke, where did she get the bounty money from?

In any event, Boliviani declared that she was broke for real now, having spent the last of her money on bounties. And she was quitting EVE.

...and that was the last anyone heard of Boliviani diGriz. Perhaps we're turning a corner. The longer the New Order sticks around, the more carebears will realize that our Code isn't going anywhere. This is how highsec is now. If you don't like it, mine in lowsec. If you're too cowardly to do that, don't assume anyone's going to care if you quit.

49 comments:

It is not that that we gank that irks them, it is that we gank with a purpose and reason. I don't understand it, but I see the truth of it almost every single day.

The "if you'd only warned me thing" is so common I have a copy/paste response to it now. So far, 100% of the pilots I've convo'd before ganking have declined buying a permit. 95% or so have declined while spouting profanity, challenges, and questioning my sexual proclivities.

So I'll just stick with the ganking as a first response when a bumper isn't around. It is an attention getter that is for sure.

That's a load of bullshit. James has repeatedly stated that a major reason for why he started poking at miners is because of all these changes that have been brought down from complaining made by miners in the past when they have been ganked.

Can't think too far ahead there, eh Tonto... Bots are flooding the market, you claim to gank bots, if you are succeeding then the flood would subside and prices go up...I can't help it if this is a logical measure of your success or lack there of,,,

You got it wrong, the New Order doesn't just "gank bots"...that's CCP's work. The New Order wants to change mining in highsec, not lowering the amount of minerals mined. Miners are welcome to mine, they just have to follow the rules and accept more risk.

Other than that, it's a very long job and the variables in play about minerals price are so vast and diverse that using those as an example to judge Agents' work is simplistic and out of focus regarding the objectives of the Order.

BJ, you understand that compliant miners mine, right? You act like the NO wanted to shut down miners, but you misunderstood the Code. The NO wants miner to follow the rules. The compliant miners are mining, and they're better at it than the rebels. And do something for that anger, it's consuming you.

Well, it is the mining bots and multi-boxers that are blamed for the rapidly declining mineral and ore prices. So BJ does have a point that a rise in mineral prices would be the way to measure success. How those miners mine doesn't really matter, if there are actually less sources of SUPPLY, then the total goes down, and when DEMAND stays the same, the more willing buyers will be to pay higher prices.

I don't get why some people think the New Order was born to do CCP's job, getting rid of bots. I never flied with Agents nor I plat EVE at the moment, bbut just by reading the blog it seems to me their goal is very different.

I suppose the ore prices are dependant from a lot of factors, maybe the new found peace in Null Sec has a part, but in general I think that measuring the success of a few people who want to bring fun back in High Sec by cold data like ore prices is unwarranted.

The goal of the New Order is to bring interactions to High Sec, to make players aware of the risk - reward concept, to build opportunities for emergent gameplay and overall to have fun. I don't think anyone in the New Order is doing it to get rid of bots, as that is CCP's job. They are doing to fight the carebear's mentality, not the carebears' wallet, and only CCP can destroy the bots' wallet.

I measure the New Order success by tears, compliant miners, fun stories on the blog, players who joined to have fun with them, players who learn something and have a laugh, carebears who start accepting that their spaceship can explode and that it's not the end of the world.

I see the New Order as a fight for an idea more than a fight to destroy botters (only CCP can truly do that, really).

Considering you guys seem to be planning to teach your kids how to be fascist asshats, I don't think anyone will be taking advice from any of you on how to raise their children.

As for your opinion that you'd rather the servers be empty than filled with people you don't like, you're basically begging for the game to crash and burn. 'Cause if the servers are empty, there's no one playing. No one playing means no one paying. No pay means CCP CAN'T KEEP THE GAME RUNNING! *sigh*

I'm unclear as to how playing an MMO in a roleplaying capacity within the rules and intent of the developers translates into a critique of child rearing capabilities. Is there some peer reviewed study I haven't been privy too? And if so, why does it only apply to roleplayers you don't like?

That raises an excellent point Len.similar to the "when you point a finger there are 3 pointing back at you.Poor BJ, hes so passionate, but his opinions stink like a plugged up toilet :( smells like lynch.Id like to hear about the multiple alts he has, and the sainthood apparently bestowed on "Mr. Does No Wrong" by whatever authority did that for him.

Branden Jensen you should start a rebel blog and build a community of AFKers and anti-James 315 players to fight the New Order... By commenting the blog you just provide comic material.If you truly want them to stop, you should start fighting them and change history. You don't need PVP skills or billions of ISK from the start, just your charisma and an idea that others will follow.

@Anon 12:56: Where is this assumption that there's new alt accounts starting up left right and center? That's a pretty far fetched delusion.

@Linda: "If you really want to help out your kids, set a good example so they don't grow up to be criminals." - Quoted from the above article. Try reading your own bosses bullshit propaganda.

@Rennseslear: I have 3 accounts, each with their own core characters. All of them can mine ore and ice. Wulf is a warrior, Mactire is a salvager, Okami is a mining processor and shipping pilot.Mining helps pay the bills (Though I rarely have to mine anyways), Like selling minerals or using them to manufacture goods to sell.

@Anon 3:32: If I had the time to piss away on creating and maintaining a blog, I'm not sure I'd waste it exclusively fighting you guys.I get a laugh out of being a somewhat consistent voice of dissidence on this site. It also reminds other miners that there are those willing to never give in to your bullshit.

@Anon 6:20: Since you so obviously don't have the intellectual capacity to look up words you don't understand, let me sum up what fascism is (and thereby cover what BEING a fascist is).

Fascism is Oppressive, dictatorial control.James 315 oppresses miners and is enforcing a dictatorship on them. Not only that, but he's requiring they pay for his dictatorship.a democratic government isn't fascist in base nature because democracy requires that an official is elected to that position by all of the people. And don't waste your time with this "He was elected by proxy" because YOU CAN'T ELECT A DEMOCRATIC OFFICIAL BY PROXY!

Anon 1:28: If being verbally abused by a stranger on the internet gives you a hard on, seek psychological help immediately.

@Linda: "If you really want to help out your kids, set a good example so they don't grow up to be criminals." - Quoted from the above article. Try reading your own bosses bullshit propaganda.

So what you're saying is we should teach our kids to be criminals? I'm so confused. I for one would never let my kids mine in hisec, even with a permit. Miners, far from being the salt of the earth, are the most foul mouthed and perverted pilots I've met in New Eden. Maybe you can explain it to me more clearly. Perhaps inject the word 'fuck' into it a bit, that might help make your point more emphatically and clearly.

"@Anon 12:56: Where is this assumption that there's new alt accounts starting up left right and center? That's a pretty far fetched delusion."

Where is this assumption that the author is being literal and not simply illustrating an idea?

"@Linda: 'If you really want to help out your kids, set a good example so they don't grow up to be criminals.' - Quoted from the above article. Try reading your own bosses bullshit propaganda."

Considering that the New Order teaches personal responsibility, your idea that agents raise their kids to be fascist is rather silly, and confirms your lack of understanding.

"@Anon 3:32: If I had the time to piss away on creating and maintaining a blog, I'm not sure I'd waste it exclusively fighting you guys.I get a laugh out of being a somewhat consistent voice of dissidence on this site. It also reminds other miners that there are those willing to never give in to your bullshit."

You are, indeed, a consistent voice of knee jerk reactions, not of rational thought as I'm sure you'd believe. But miners are hardly "aware" of anything.

When you refer to creating and maintaining a blog that communicates an important message as pissing away time, you betray your dissatisfaction with yourself, since it logically follows that you think that you are pissing away time by commenting on the blog.

"Anon 1:28: If being verbally abused by a stranger on the internet gives you a hard on, seek psychological help immediately."

This is the reason your posts are loved: One can easily guess that Anon 1:28 was using an idiomatic expression in an attempt to be humorous, yet, when reading your reply, one gets the impression that you are, in fact, being 100% literal and not joking. Therein lies the genius.

"@Anon 6:20: Since you so obviously don't have the intellectual capacity to look up words you don't understand, let me sum up what fascism is (and thereby cover what BEING a fascist is).

Fascism is Oppressive, dictatorial control.James 315 oppresses miners and is enforcing a dictatorship on them. Not only that, but he's requiring they pay for his dictatorship.a democratic government isn't fascist in base nature because democracy requires that an official is elected to that position by all of the people. And don't waste your time with this "He was elected by proxy" because YOU CAN'T ELECT A DEMOCRATIC OFFICIAL BY PROXY!"

Is CCP fascist because they authoritatively make make rules that some find oppressive? Obviously not. Your definition is laughable at best.

You have shown your lack of intellectual capacity by demonstrating that you cannot look further than wikipedia and other "authority figures" to tell you what to believe about something. Any intelligent student of history, politics, and economics knows what fascism really is.

Fascism is simply extreme socialism plus nationalism. But since academia is mostly comprised of leftists that first part usually gets described in over-complicated terms in order to avoid calling a spade a spade. And socialist regimes are, by their very nature, authoritarian. When one wishes to attempt to legislate utopia into existence, and redistribute wealth, this can by definition only be accomplished with force or the threat of force.

Your assertion that a democratic government isn't fascist but dictatorships necessarily are is completely false. Here is an example:

Hitler campaigned as a socialist to become chancellor of Germany. Democratic societies can and do elect fascists to positions in government who wish to transform the country. Currently, in America, the president often acts autonomously and against the wishes of the people, while pursuing greater power and control, more people dependent on government for food and housing, and more government control of business and economy through subsidization. At what point does this cease to be a democracy, and start to become a fascist dictatorship? We elected the official, right?

One can liken James to Augusto Pinochet, who took control of Chile at the request of the parliament because the people had democratically elected a socialist, and they were desperate to avoid the disasters of socialism that had struck so many other countries. Pinochet, as dictator, privatized businesses and embraced a capitalist spirit, setting into place free market reforms that led to his country's prosperity, which were later copied by Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan with great effects. A dictator is not necessarily fascist - although I'm sure the few socialists that Pinochet purged after the coup found him very oppressive (despite the fact that socialist regimes always do the same to their opponents after taking power).

Your statement written in all caps shows that you are so close, yet still missing the point. It would seem that you have no sense of humor.

Firstly, let me say thank you. You guys make this far too easy. You justify my comments just by replying.I haven't had this much luck bating fish since I was 9 or 10. :)

@Linda: There you go again, accusing miners of being criminals, simply because they follow CCP's rules instead of yours. You can call them "non-compliant", but criminals that does not make them. You are just further displaying the many claims of fascism.

@Alana: I so truly hope he posts another article of me. The one about my character, Phelan Wulf, truly brought tears of joy to me. To be displayed so publicly as a miner fully capable of formulating sentences and making points while remaining non-compliant, well it just proves you guys don't know what you're talking about. :)

@Anon 4:29: Literal or illustrating an idea, he's trying to make a point. But if he doesn't want his exaggeration to be taken literally, perhaps he should use a less drastic example. :)

-How does the "New Order" teach personal responsibility, when they are teaching their agents that a week old alt with minimal ISK and training can gank miners who have months or years of training and ISK gathering?This is in fact teaching their own people that you can manipulate the system so as not to be held personally accountable in any meaningful manner. Your logic is flawed.

-Again, your logic is flawed regarding the maintenance of a blog counter to the "New Order." The flaw is in that you think I consider it a waste of my time to debate or argue with you lot simply because I consider it a waste of my time to create a blog of my own.I consider debating with anyone a healthy way to keep the mind sharp, hence why it is a favourable pastime of mine. Admittedly, this site provides very little challenge, but it is consistent at the very least.

-Whether or not Anon 1:28 is joking doesn't matter if I want to take a poke at him regardless. :)Oh, and don't forget that there is something called "dry humour" in which the person making the joke need not smile or laugh in order to be joking.

@Anon 4:29: CCP created a video game in which there must always be limitations or rules, as we don't yet have the ability to create a game where every aspect of that game is living and breathing in an intelligent manner.Everyone who plays Eve is advised by CCP of the rules and such that follow with playing the game, and are not forced to pay for the game and play it against their will.The "New Order" forces their will upon people leaving miners with no choice to refund their game time, or to choose not to sign up for Eve in the first place. Maybe if you guys got CCP to add your jibber jabber to the sign up or game time pages, then you can argue this point legitimately with me.

-Regarding your long-winded attempt to argue that everything is and isn't simultaneously fascism based on individual perspectives: The point about democracy isn't whether or not a fascist can be elected, it's that democracy can't be called fascism, and vice versa. In Democracy, you elect the candidate you you THINK is going to do the things you want done for your country. They campaign to that end, and you have to hope they'll hold up those promises.In fascism, the dictator either forces themselves into power, or gets there by whatever means necessary (ie. voted there, than removes the democratic process and takes full control). Once there, they enforce their will upon the people. They don't care if 0%, 5%, 80% or 100% of the people agree with them, they do it regardless. In democracy, it is also possible to remove the elected official from office prior to completing their term.With the amount of opposition that the "New Order" faces on a daily basis (as evidenced by this blog), it can be seen that there is a significant number of people who do not support this initiative in it's current form.

Second, aside from the enforcing of the Code, which is EULA compliant, can you provide specific examples of this oppression, it is just a game. Null alliances and coalitions make their own rules to govern their own space all the time, how is the New Order and Highsec any different?

Third, the election by proxy, do you think any significant portion of the Highsec community would have turned out to that particular vote? An election by proxy would be the only way to go.

Fourth, I've always compared the New Order to a Cult of Personality, just me personally as far as I know. And humor is humor regardless.

Fifth, I think the assumption on the blogging stance was taken by your wording, using phrases like "piss the time away" then how do you expect others to interpret it?

Okay, I know I addressed points out of order, and probably not all of the ones in your post, but those were just the ones I had my own points to make on. Look forward to the reply.

Best guess on the misspelling of her name? I'm arguing with so many people at one time that the names just become a blur, and the habit of a traditional name like "Linda" kicks in.

The "Code" might be EULA compliant, but that doesn't remove the fact that it's oppressive. NullSec is actually designed to be owned and controlled by player authorities. HighSec has an NPC authorities. No one can say they own it, or make their own rules for players to follow. That's not how HighSec works. I'm not saying HighSec is always safe, but like any MMO there are areas with varying degrees of safety. HighSec is supposed to be "safest", and effectively allow the "carebears" to enjoy a place where they're not forced to fight people every 10 seconds.

An "election by proxy" is no election at all. You can't just assume control of something and say "I was elected by proxy." All you're saying is "There was a vote, but I was the only one who knew about it, and since I was also the only candidate, I voted for myself." By that same logic, right here and now I could vote myself as second in command of the "New Order" by proxy, and automatically assume that if I held an election no one from the New Order would show up.

You are largely right that the "New Order" is a cult of personality, because the only actual personality at work is James 315. Everyone else just emulates him to the degree of being clones.

The problem was they assumed. I doubt anyone here is unfamiliar with a particularly popular adage regarding that word.

Again, this comes down to the "New Order" forcing themselves upon miners. Effectively digital rape, albeit minus the more serious repercussions. You're telling people what they can do with their free time, and when they don't comply with your "Code" you do everything in your power to ruin their game for them.It's funny how much of the hatred for HighSec miners is in fact a reciprocal hatred for yourselves as gankers. If you can't figure that one out, let me know and I'll explain that one in length again for you as well.

You continually say the New Order is forcing themselves on miners, but how many people are featured on this site alone that say no? This is not counting the ones who did the smart thing and simply moved, rather than getting their hackles up and spewing tears. It is completely their choice on how they react to this. Vice versa, it is entirely the miner's choice to follow the Code or not, they cannot force this or they'll be banned.

Now to discuss on what the NO actually wants, aside from being against botters, which is CCP's job, they also want miners to participate in the game's content, which is intended to be mostly player-generated.

Speaking of this hatred, I'm not one of the gankers, as I have interpreted you to be assuming. CCP's statement is that ganking is at a "historic low" at this point in time. Would you criticize the Goons for their Hulkageddon, which is intended to create content.

An election by proxy, I'll concede that point. In all seriousness, how much of the highsec community do you think turns out to any sort of vote at all?

I agree that highsec is supposed to be the "safest" part of EVE, but that has become the problem, that CCP has made changes to make highsec even safer for the desires of the carebears. To provide a specific example, carebears wanted to get rid of non-consensual wardecs, so I've heard.

Plus, you didn't really provide a specific example of NO oppression, only outlined the differences of the mechanics of highsec vs. null.

I think the key point here is that the New Order is player-generated content, which is one of the things CCP espouses about EVE, and there are those that will set themselves for and against it. (Ourselves cases in point)

To post my personal opinion, if someone is AFK, even in highsec, they shouldn't whine if their ship is destroyed. They were the one who left their stuff unattended in a game that will allow others to mess with it (stealing, destroying, etc.), and that should be a lesson to them. News travels in EVE, but you can't know if you aren't at the keyboard.

They force themselves on miners by doing everything they can to make non-compliance untenable through methods like bumping and ganking miners. Then they even tell miners in the "Code" that if you get ganked after having bought your permit, you're not going to tell that halfwit to "go suck a dick", you're supposed to thank them and be all "jolly good gank chap." Personality rape much?Fact of the matter is, if the "New Order" had their way, moving wouldn't work at all, because they would have agents in every HighSec system. But hey, if I've spent 2 years enjoying the community and luxuries of a system I've come to call home, why should I have to suddenly up and move to appease the bullies?

As for the "New Order" being against botters, that's the only thing I've agree with in their "mission statement", but given their behaviours I'm 95% certain that knocking off botters is actually a convenient label they've applied in order to justify their witch hunt to those in HighSec that actually agree with them.When it comes to players joining in on the game content, that's their choice. They're not asking people to join in on the content, they're ENFORCING the content.

I did not assume you were specifically a ganker, but there was a slight impression that you were aligned with the "New Order." My apologies if this was presumptuous of me.Regarding the Goons, I criticize them about everything. I've run into them in other games, and they're just as cocky, but far less able to back it without their zerg numbers.

I believe that some of the community would show up. Some of the community is better than none, and sure as hell beats some bullshit proxy vote.

As far as wardecs, I've never experienced one (my friends and I have a very small corp), however I think they are best left as is. Wardecs are part of the PvP process. Sure, they can be used as a bitch movie (which the "New Order" as proven time and again), but if they were made consensual most would get declined regardless.

As for CCP making HighSec safer for carebears, good on them. I've said before that every MMO, even on PvP servers, has safe zones where PvP can't take place. Either because it's a city, or because it's a factional safe zone. This game needs to maintain a healthy appeal to all forms of players, and if that means that there are safe systems where even ganking can't happen, than so be it. There is still all that space in low and null for PvP to happen.This game survives because people pay money. This game progressively improves because people pay money. If x% of the highsec players quit, and CCP's bottom line gets hit, they'll be pissed and players will suffer.

Their entire mantra is oppression. You needn't look any further than their daily blog entries reflecting the oppression of miners in HighSec.

I absolutely get the player-generated content. Emergent gaming, yadda yadda, blah blah. That's all fine and dandy. But there's emergent gaming, and then there's ruining the game for people.

As for the AFK conflict, it's truly a reciprocal argument. Yes, people are aware of the danger of leaving their ship alone, but there are plenty of things in real life that don't wait for you to park your ships in a station. ie. Children, diarrhoea, etc.

Fact of the matter is, the "New Order are truly just school yard bullies. I'm sure Freud would have something to say about their behaviour in game, versus who they are in real life. Because there is ALWAYS a correlation.

Yes, I am for the most part aligned with the New Order, but there are things that I will disagree with.

EVE, as I've seen, has been built on the possibility, of PVP almost anytime. One of the rules is "don't fly what you can't afford to lose," and I've read the official wiki and came to expect to lose my ship at some point. To me it doesn't matter whether I lose my ship in highsec or nullsec, someone is going to get me. If they manage that, then good on them. This possibility of being taken down anywhere in the game is what appealed to me, and plenty of others. It's not just the carebears who make money for CCP.

If what I've found on the web is any indication, even with the New Order running about, subscription numbers are still going up, so even with a major decline in the highsec population, I doubt it would make a big impact for long on the revenue for CCP. Taking into account that there are probably just as many, if not more players in null and lowsec than in highsec, that makes my doubts bigger in that regard.

I'm not saying moving is appeasing them, I just said it's the smart thing to do, which is my opinion.

The AFK matter can be debated back and forth into eternity, so I say we can drop that.

A correlation between real life behaviors and in-game behaviors, I find that hard to believe. The name I'm using now is the same as the first character I made in EVE, and the same personality I am using to type, itself the closest to my real-life personality I'll let anyone on the Internet see. My other character is using the personality of a gruff no-nonsense pirate, pretty much the opposite of this one. What do you have to say to that?

I couldn't afford to fly jack shit until I started mining ice.Now that I'm further along, missions are starting to get lucrative, and I don't really have to rely on mining unless I want to manufacture some goods. I still like mining though, and take my guys out to a belt just to chill. *gasp* Yeah, some people DO enjoy mining.

I don't honestly know what the split of HighSec miners versus non-HighSec miners is. I don't doubt that there's more people out there trying to PvP in some capacity, but I do doubt that HighSec players are a minority.

Regarding character personalities, there are those who are pretty much just themselves (that makes it that much worse if they're an asshole), but there is also plenty of studies that prove when someone is "playing a character", be it in a video game or in real life, that they are embodying a fantasy.

My characters are as much a part of me as I am a part of them. When I "play" my characters in any game, you're getting 100% me, because I don't have fantasies of being someone else. I am exactly who I want to be.

Well, if you enjoy mining I won't criticize that, I rather enjoyed it myself for about 50 seconds to a minute into my first time. It just got boring for me since no one else in my corp really mined, it was a PVP focus corp after all, it was just a way to get money for me.

But really, couldn't afford a thing, I find that a little hard to believe, just my opinion.

I didn't say I believed Highsec players to be a minority. A split between the miners in Highsec and the ones that aren't, I couldn't tell you either, because I don't know.

If when playing your characters, you are being just you, then that's your choice, I have no right to critique that.

According to the EVE wiki when I read it, one of the things carebears do is automatically assume that the personality they see in-game from others is the exact same as the personality those players have in real life. This is especially true when it comes to people who mess with them, such as gankers and the New Order. The New Order is roleplay, Goons, I don't know. Note this is NOT me saying you are a carebear, I'm just bringing something up I believe to be relevant.

I'll never understand this kind of trolling Anon 9:27. There's nothing smart or cunning about it. It's like going in a supermarket with underpants on your head. Yes, people will stop and look at you, but you can hardly brag about "getting reactions".

Hey yo! Boliviani here, I changed my mind and will be mining the precious White Glaze fulltime now. Oh, they know it and they put a 100mil bounty on me. LOLZ! Try and catch me he he :P AFK Ice Mining forever! Well, this time in a Skiff :D