It’ll increase the number of chargers. Whether availability gets better or worse, at the times that matter, remains to be seen.

I went from my city Kristiansand to Oslo last weekend. Although the trip is perfectly possible in my LEAF, it’s a lot easier to take a bus, so that’s what I did. The bus takes a break at Telemarksporten about halfway, and there’s a Tesla SC site there. Both ways (to and from Oslo) every stall was occupied.

Of course two is a tiny sample size. But it’s very unlikely I would have observed this unless there are frequently no available chargers. Clearly more stalls would be useful already, and just continuing selling the Model S and X provides a strong case for expansion. It’s not economical to add one stall here and there over and over again, it just generates overhead and administrative cost. Doubling seems very reasonable, even without Model 3.

It’ll be quite interesting to see how charging stations will cope with the summers in the 2020s. If cars appear soon that can take the 150-350 kW power that’s starting to come online, maybe it’ll be just fine. But if the cars sold in the next few years are still capable of just 40-50 kW, this will be a problem in Norway, where BEV share is very high.

These types of stations will be what the EV infrastructure will have to evolve to in high-traffic areas going forward. But don’t expect these stations to be where most of the existing SC stations are. A 40-slot SC station would require a very significant industrial-strength electrical service.

Allocating 100 kW per slot, that is 4 MW! This would not be a 480 volt service. It would be at the utility’s 12 kV distribution voltage and may require dual distribution feeds from two directions, as that is a lot of amps even at 12 kV. These SC sites would probably have to be located in industrial locations where the utilities have robust medium-voltage distribution and close to their HV 100 kV/12 kV substations

Interesting take. I wonder if Tesla is using the solar canopy plus some battery storage system to offset the grid load? Maybe they can size the electrical load lower for that reason.

There is a wrinkle in that assessment of a need for utility scale hookups in industrial locations: I frequent Kettleman City quite often and there is NOTHING industrial about that location. This is a pretty rural location. The nearest high kV line that I can think of is about 20 or 30 miles north near Coalinga.

Around here, such moderate power levels as this 40-stall SC would be handled at the typical 7620Y/13200 distribution voltage – unless of course Tesla wanted to pay for special construction to get a future price break, which they typically do not.

Seeing as Tesla rarely takes delivery at any medium voltage (MV) level, I’d expect a 40 stall SC to look exactly like the 8 stall ones as I mentioned in my above comment to HVAC.

“I wonder if Tesla is using the solar canopy plus some battery storage system to offset the grid load? Maybe they can size the electrical load lower for that reason.”

My napkin math indicates that the Supercharger solar canopies will provide at most about 2% of the power necessary for charging, per stall.

Of course, if the station sits unoccupied for extended periods of time, that could accumulate in a battery pack. But then, if the station is sitting unoccupied for long periods of time, why would they need 40 stalls?

Furthermore, most of the existing Supercharger stations have no solar canopies. Will the percentage be higher at new ones? Frankly, I doubt it.

It seems to me the Supercharger solar canopies have a lot more to do with Tesla wanting to project a “green” image than they do with actually supplying electricity.

What do you think the typical utilisation of a gas pump is? Very likely very low, right?

Just to make a guess, let’s assume the average pump is actually pumping fuel for one full hour per day. That’s 4% utilisation. So why on Earth would a station ever need six?

Obviously because people don’t refuel at randomly distributed times (or locations).

The effects of this is much bigger for EVs because of the relatively long charging time and the shorter range between refills, but most of all because users can and do charge at home or at work – most of the time. In other words, the difference between what’s needed along major travel routes in the summer vacation, or for Easter or Christmas, and what’s needed on average throughout the year, is HUGE for EVs.

That’s a challenge, because capacity obviously needs to be scaled for near-worst-case scenarios. Otherwise neatly all the users will experience problems nearly every major vacation! But it leaves us with crazy overcapacity the rest of the time.

This is actually the most important reason higher charging rates are important, far beyond 150 kW. Whether you charge for ten or twenty minutes a few times a year doesn’t really matter. But whether you need 60 stalls or 15 to handle peak load makes a huge difference to infrastructure cost – and thus ultimately prices.

The charger side is relatively easy, but the battery side still breeds much improvement. Hopefully it’s coming soon.

Just a simple scale-up would be a simple 4000 amp one. I say simple since the equipment is very standardized in this size range, and btw, there are only 20 charger bays not 40 as you incorrectly stated.

Why couldn’t they do both? A lot of gas stations these days have merged with a restaurant so you have a convenience store on one side and a restaurant on the other. Tesla could have one side as a lounge while the other side is a restaurant.

Typical charge time is closer to 30 minutes. That’s about right to eat lunch, or dinner if you’re in a hurry. A fast food restaurant would certainly work better for a 30 minute window than a sit-down restaurant where you have to wait for the wait staff to come and take your order.

A fast food restaurant could also attract more business to the location by having a drive-thru.

Kettleman City is a good choice, but I would strongly suggest Tesla build such a Supersite in Santa Nella, CA. Right now, there is a huge gap in the network on I5 between Sacramento and Harris Ranch that would require most Tesla owners/drivers to basically hypermile in order to make it there. I know about the Superchargers near Manteca, but that’s a good deal of back tracking.

Until that gap is closed, I’ll stick with my trusty Volt, thank you very much. 🙂

For large sites like this Tesla should develop a convenience store model, like WaWa, Sheets, or Raceway here on the east coast. They make make most of their profits on selling goods, and freshly made sandwiches and drinks. People will have plenty of time to shop and eat while waiting for their car to charge. Could add an additional source of income for Tesla.

I can certainly see Tesla renting out space in the “lounge” to some sort of combo convenience store/restaurant, but I rather doubt Tesla wants to get into the business of operating a grocery/food service franchise. That’s about as far outside Tesla’s core business as Apple selling cars.

Tesla should really include a play area for kids also. Anyone kids knows that asking them to wait while the car is charging is probably unrealistic. A play area would keep them entertained while the car is charging.

When you see 40 cars charging in one place, it will really bring home how unsustainable even 150 kW quick charging is for the masses. It will be evocative of the OPEC gas crisis of 1973. Lots of cars queuing to fuel up in a land of scarcity. Memorial Day and Labor Day weekends will soon fill Tesla owners with dread as infrastructure is overwhelmed by hordes of electric vacationers. Grid reliability and land availability will prevent sufficient capacity in many locations.

Gas cars fuel at the equivalent of 1.5 megawatts. Until we get close, or hydrogen stations scale out further, mass adoption of ZEVs is going to be very painful.

I don’t think large amounts of cars will discourage people from buying PHEV’s and BEV’s. Most people buying PHEV’s such as VOLTS just use the existing receptacle in the Garage or Carport, and have purchase no extra infrastructure at all.

I haven’t seen any info on what the typical BOLT ev owner has done, but Chevrolet seems Agnostic on the issue: they mention 3 different ways to charge the car (L1, L2, or FAST) and don’t push the owner to any particular way, although they do suggest very high mileage drivers to at least consider a Level 2 solution.

This Tesla installation of fast chargers uses less electricity than you think.

First off, the car only charges at a 120 kw rate for a few minutes, and then only off-peak. When the station is more than half busy, then the cars are forced down to a 60-65 kw rate mainly because they are nearing the capacity of the charging bay which must now feed 2 hungry cars.

This is as it should be. A serious multi supercharger station that is designed from the get-go to have 40 charging pedestals, solar and a lounge. Solar with enough capacity to charge the cars coming through and battery storage to shift/store energy as needed. Way to go Tesla

Tesla has completed the purchase of the Kettleman City site. The site in Norway is still in negotiations because there is a condition that any business in that development be “airport related”. That may or may not turn out to be a showstopper.

The obvious answer Butch is that Tesla paying the electric bill is easier for Tesla than running the thing off their battery systems, since if it cost less money Tesla would certainly use their own systems.

Now, if a partnership can be made with a local gov’t, then Tesla can get the local gov’t to give the property tax-free status, purchase plenty of solar panels or windmills to make the thing look as green as possible, and provide other accoutrements to spiffy up the installation.

You have a flashlight…the bulb goes dim…you unscrew that back cover…dump out the used batteries…slip in 2-3-4 new [fully charged] D cells…screw on the back cover…off you go into the night.

You have a EV…your battery shows low power…you back your EV into a stall at a power station…a robot opens the storage compartment in your EV that houses the battery…pull out the used battery and slips in a fully charged battery…close the cover…drive away…

The charging station is recharging the replaced batteries in the back room…

The customer’s wait time is minimal…

The operation is automated…

The robot checks the power remaining in the existing EV battery…subtracts this from a fully charged battery…cost is determined…slide credit card…drive away…

There are many ways to view this EV revolution but the key to its success lies in energy storage.

Quick/fast charging stations is one way…quick/fast battery swapping is another.

It sure looks fun, what with a conditioned building and lounge chairs to wait while your vehicle charges. Nicely landscaped also.

In this country, I was under the impression that most SC’s were put on a corner of someone ELSE’s property, who also paid ALL the property taxes and landscaping fees, just to have the added customer traffic, of which I would seldom expect that would be a fair trade off for the business – unless of course a local gov’t can be convinced to also chip in.

Tesla is already carrying the freight for the vehicle charging, and has politely warned users to charge at home when not taking a trip – to many users who expect to get their money’s worth by charging at the SC anyway – especially if in an area with confiscatory rates.

But who is paying to condition the Lounge area, as well as the area lighting and its upkeep? Again, a friendly local gov’t is probably a friend indeed! (At least as Tesla owners are concerned).