Active Member

Sorry if this is old news to some but there was an interview on the news this morning with a representative of the BBFC (ah-peuh) announcing the use of a new film certificate for the UK Cinema (not video/dvd).

The new certificate is 12A or 12-Advisory and shall replace the current certificate 12. It will mean that children under the age of 12 shall be permitted into movies rated 12A (and presumably those previously rated 12 also) provided they are accompanied by a parent or responsible adult who feels they child is suitably mature to watch the movie.

He also cleary stated there are NO PLANS WHATSOEVER to re-examine the current certificte 15 or 18 ratings.

Regards

The ideal committee should consist of 3 people. Two of whom never turn up.My Setup: Panasonic 60zt65B, Denon AVR 3313, Denon DBT 3313, Rel III Strata
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Active Member

I went and saw some of all fears the other day and this stupid cow couldn't stop texting her phones was going of every few minutes. Some bloke sitting a few seats away eventually used some very rude words and she still didn't stop

Active Member

People like that should just be taken out into the street and shot
I only go to the cinema late at night so as to avoid noisy brats still it doesnt stop people using their mobiles.
Still its not as bad as in the states whilst i was there recently i watched one or two decent movies that were ruined by stupid yank women shouting things out at the screen.
This happened on three separate occasions so i suppose its part of the film culture over there.
If it starts happening over here iam going to become a vigilante and start random executions.

Active Member

Last time I was in a cinema in the states... 20 minutes into the film, the guy behind me takes out his mobile phone and makes call!!!

its one thing to answer a phone in a cinema, its althogether another thing to make a call.

The ideal committee should consist of 3 people. Two of whom never turn up.My Setup: Panasonic 60zt65B, Denon AVR 3313, Denon DBT 3313, Rel III Strata
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Guest

What this now means, is another category of films that will get interrupted by bloody annoying kids who are more interested in nattering and eating, than in watching the movie!

Can't the BBFC create a new category, called "M-NKA", for Mandatory, No Kids Allowed?! Now, that I would be grateful for!

Pooch

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Pooch can't help noticing that you're very angry of late... do you want to talk about it? Seriously though going to the cinema later might be an idea. I too have noticed audiences getting a bit more vocal over here... watching AOTC ****ed me off cos everyone was cheering. I knew the Yanks went bananas at the flicks tho.

Guest

Originally posted by James45 I knew the Yanks went bananas at the flicks tho.

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There are still some, small town, cinemas in the States where they play a short reel of a fluttering Stars & Stripes with the National Anthem playing. The audience actually stands up whilst this plays... seriously!

Active Member

A friend of mine was travelling in the US on his own a few years back.

He (a big film fan) found himself in a bit of a flea-pit Cinema in Washington watching "True Romance" the week it was released. The audience consisted mostly of African Americans.

This was not a problem until Dennis Hopper started doing his famous "Sicilians were spawned by n*ggers" monologue when he resigns himself to the fact that Christopher Walken is just about to shoot him.

After the "N" word had been used for the umpteenth time a number of men in the audience started shouting words to the effect of

"THIS SH*T AINT FUNNY ANYMORE!"

Being in one of the murder capitals of the US, my mate found it difficult to concentrate on the rest of the film for fear of someone popping a proverbial cap in his ass!

Guest

Originally posted by Desticado provided they are accompanied by a parent or responsible adult who feels they child is suitably mature to watch the movie.

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Anybody thought of the implications of paedephiles or other "dodgy" characters hanging around Cinema's offering to escort under 12's in to see films!! This happened in the 60's and 70's with the old "A" classification.

Although I agree with what Squirrel God says about prefereing less censorship this is not the way to do it!!

How on earth are you supposed to "police" what your kids see if any "responsible adult" can escort them in.

Apparently the BBFC conducted an extensive survey about this, allegedly 2000 people in Norwich (hardly extensive) and this is the result.

Active Member

Originally posted by Couch Potato Anybody thought of the implications of paedephiles or other "dodgy" characters hanging around Cinema's offering to escort under 12's in to see films!! This happened in the 60's and 70's with the old "A" classification.

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I doubt any responsible parent would be letting their children go unaccompanied to cinema's and those that do would give the "dont go with any men to look at puppies" speech.

Although I agree with what Squirrel God says about prefereing less censorship this is not the way to do it!!

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At least with this method there is the implementation of choice in what you permit your children to see. Would you prefer a method of censorship where you had no choice, instead having to accept what had been deemed by others suitable or not for you and your children to watch?

How on earth are you supposed to "police" what your kids see if any "responsible adult" can escort them in.

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because any responsible parent doesnt let their children wander off with a random stranger. Whilst it is impossible to know EXACTLY what is going to be contained within a movie it is easy to have a good idea and therefore judge whether or not you want YOUR child to see it, either with your or a responsible adult into whom you have trusted your child.

Apparently the BBFC conducted an extensive survey about this, allegedly 2000 people in Norwich (hardly extensive) and this is the result.

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Actually it was 4000 people surveyed and a pilot scheme was held in Norwich. 4000 people is actually a VERY LARGE SAMPLE SIZE if you know anything about statistics.

In addendum.... There was an interview on radio 2 this morning between a representative of the BBFC and the chairman of some watchers group or whatever. He made a similar arguemt to yourself and added that it was now possible for 8 year olds to go watch scenes of drug taking, dismemberment and sexual intercourse... The man from the BBFC did a great job of puting him back in his box instantly by pointing out that neither drug taking or Sex (of any nature) is permited to be shown in any 12/12A movie. Sex may only be implied such as two people holding hands and heading upstairs for instance.

Regards

The ideal committee should consist of 3 people. Two of whom never turn up.My Setup: Panasonic 60zt65B, Denon AVR 3313, Denon DBT 3313, Rel III Strata
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Guest

OK I may have been gone a bit overboard with the comments, made after looking at the thread for about 10 secs, and whether I overreacted or not doesn't make it drivel, it's an opinion.

Having read your reply and my original post I agree with you up to a point on the censorship issue, however,

I doubt any responsible parent would be letting their children go unaccompanied to cinema's and those that do would give the "dont go with any men to look at puppies" speech.

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I think you should re-think your comments here given recent circumstances Maybe they wern't going to the cinema but face it 10 and 11 year olds DO go on their own whether we like it or not, just spouting the "Responsible Parent" piece is ignoring reality.

Your obviously far more knowledgeable about statistics than me so I'll concede on the size of the pilot, I still think it's too small a cross section though.

Active Member

to give you an idea on the statistics, most typical oppinion polls are based on 1000 peole at most. So sampling 4000 people is being quite thorough.

as for being resonsible parents, its 'normal' to let your children of that age wonder of for 30 mins or so to the shops etc. I doubt, or would at least hopefully doubt its normal to let them wonder off for 3-4 hours to the cinema without your knowledge.

Im not drawing any similarities what so ever to recent events although following the basis of your post I would like to point out a couple of things (purely for edification purposes). A child is SIGNIFCANTLY more STATISTICALLY likely to be accossted/molested etc by a parent/close member of the family than they ever would be by a stranger hanging around a cinema, sweetshop etc.

The BBFC were also clear that there will be no 12A Certificate for videos/dvd's etc. Since parents/responsible adults are already able to police what their children watch on video/dvd they are simply extending this basis to the cinema.

Just in case there was any misconception, im not having a rant, just pointing out a couple of background facts.

Regards

The ideal committee should consist of 3 people. Two of whom never turn up.My Setup: Panasonic 60zt65B, Denon AVR 3313, Denon DBT 3313, Rel III Strata
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Guest

I would like to point out a couple of things (purely for edification purposes). A child is SIGNIFCANTLY more STATISTICALLY likely to be accossted/molested etc by a parent/close member of the family than they ever would be by a stranger hanging around a cinema, sweetshop etc.

Just in case there was any misconception, im not having a rant, just pointing out a couple of background facts.

Regards [/B]

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Agreed, but it creates an opportunity for those who wish to abuse, sorry but I know someone close to me who was a victim so I guess I've a tainted view.

Standard Member

I personaly think this is a good idear . If i think a film is ok for my kid a should be able to take them to the cinema to see it. They can see a lot worse on the news than in any film that is gona get a 12 cert .

I know what couch is saying but i truly don't think that this desision with make any diference when it comes the amount of child abdutions .If a child is gona get taken they are gona get taken. The sad truth is that even as a responsable parent there is nothing you can do to protect your children fro these sick people .

Childen get taken out of the garden in daylight . so what chance have we . All we can do is talk to are kids , not to talk to people ect. I have a boy of 10 and girl of 6 and i do my best to keep tem in the house . But you can't do that for even . When they play in the garden i am not more than 5 feet away but still i worry .It only take a moment and they could be gone

Well-known Member

I'm sorry, but a lot of what has been said so far, about the "pros" of this new classification is rather stupid.

And here's why....

What's the point of being able to take little Johnny (aged 10) and his sister Jane (just 9) to see a "12A" movie, but then not being technically allowed to see the same, identical movie on home video?!

Also, if some "PG" rated films are given "Content Warnings" (ala "Jurassic Park", or "The Lord Of The Rings"), then is there really any point in having a "12A"?

Personally, I thought that LOTR should have been a "12" certificate anyway, as I felt it was a little too dark in tone and content to be considered okay viewing for younger audience members. However, when the BBFC then classify "Spider-Man" a "12", and saying to the public that it was a "borderline 15" due to excessive violent content, and tell people that it's not suitable for little sprogs to watch, I don't then see the point of a few weeks later telling the public that actually "we've changed our minds. As long as your offspring are accompanied, then it's okay for them to see "Spider-Man" now."

Isn't this rather a big case of double-standards and hypocrisy from the BBFC?!

Active Member

Originally posted by PoochJD What's the point of being able to take little Johnny (aged 10) and his sister Jane (just 9) to see a "12A" movie, but then not being technically allowed to see the same, identical movie on home video?!

Surely the "12A" rating should be kept for video, NOT for cinemas?!

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Those under 12 are not allowed to buy themselves tickets to see a 12A, but a responsible adult can and permit them to watch it along with them.

Equally with a certifcante 12 'video' a resonsible adult can hire the movie and permit children to watch it 'under their supervision'.

For my mind there is no difference, other than by keeping video's as 12 it prevents the arguement of "my dad says its okay...."

the point you make about spiderman being almost a 15 and now its available to 8 year olds does make a mockery of the system though.

The ideal committee should consist of 3 people. Two of whom never turn up.My Setup: Panasonic 60zt65B, Denon AVR 3313, Denon DBT 3313, Rel III Strata
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Standard Member

I personaly think the whole ratings thing is a pile of b****cks .As for cutting films to bits ,it just makes me so mad .

Ib don't tend to go to the cinema anymore so it dos'nt realy bother me too much . If my kid want's to watch a film I will wait till i can get it at home , watch it and then i will decide if he can watch it or not .I don't think a group of suits should tell me what i can't let my kids watch .A lot of films are unsutable . But that should be up to me .

I watched texas chainsaw mas and about every zomby film that came out befor i was 12 never bothered me or my brother (I'm not saying i would let my kids watch em though ) .It's down to the kid and the situation in my mind .My kid could watch people being killed till it comes out of his hears . But titanic made him totaly break down in tears and run from the room .

He knows that action movies are all made-up so don't mater a bit ( it's all fake). If a film is about somthing that realy happend and somthing happens to somone though , that is a diferent thing all together and realy bothers him. So he dos'nt watch that sort of thing .

The way i deside if a film is ok for him is . I watch the film then talk to my kid about it . Then we deside together if he is gona watch it .He has watched some 15 films but not some that were suposed to be sutable for kids

Kids are just as individual as adults and should be treated that way . They should not all be just shoved into the same catagory

Active Member

Originally posted by squid I personaly think the whole ratings thing is a pile of b****cks .As for cutting films to bits ,it just makes me so mad .

...snip...

Kids are just as individual as adults and should be treated that way . They should not all be just shoved into the same catagory

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Unfortunately a LOT of parents are not as thoughtful or dilligent in judging what their children will watch. Equally a LOT of parents dont have the time to screen what their children will watch, which is where the BBFC comes in, giving parents a basis for whom tapes/disks etc are suitable. Sure we've all wathced movies when we were younger than the particular rating but I'd imagine it was due to our parents getting those movies and letting us watch them.

If it were not for the BBFC you wouldnt be able to choose what your children could or could not watch as they would have alreday been down to the shop and bought/hired the latetst cert.18 movie and watched it already.

The problem with cuts is due to the studios wanting to maximise revenue as much as it is to the BBFC.

On the whole im fairly happy with the BBFC clarification of movies although the whoe issue of Head Butts and Nun chuku is simply laughable.

My dislikes with the BBFC are through what they choose we can or cannot see, rather than the age of the viewer.

Regards

The ideal committee should consist of 3 people. Two of whom never turn up.My Setup: Panasonic 60zt65B, Denon AVR 3313, Denon DBT 3313, Rel III Strata
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Standard Member

I know what you meen . certifecation is important . I just think that it should be more of guidline to parents rather than an rule. I think that a cert should be in place . But i allso think that a parent should have the right to overrule that cert if they think fit . We know are kids . The bbfc do not .

The new cert is more in my line of thinking . I think they should go further though and do the same with the 15 cert. This way they could leave a film alone and class it at 15 but still give parents an option . rather than cut a fil to ribons to get a 12 cert ect

More films have just plane been destroyed through doing this sort of thing. 1 second is too much to be cut if you ask me but when you see films having 15 20 mins cut . why the hell would you want to watch it . Then there is the realy stupid stuff . Wehn they cut a film justto give it a 18 cert

I'm not saying that everything is sutable for everyone . That would just be stupid . I just thinkthat there should be slightly more options than you can or you can't is all .So the new cert is a step in the right direction in my opinion

Active Member

Originally posted by squid This way they could leave a film alone and class it at 15 but still give parents an option . rather than cut a fil to ribons to get a 12 cert ect

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The BBFC doesnt cut the film for a 15 certificate, the studios do.

Regards

The ideal committee should consist of 3 people. Two of whom never turn up.My Setup: Panasonic 60zt65B, Denon AVR 3313, Denon DBT 3313, Rel III Strata
Disclaimer: Any opinions given above are my own. If you want them though, you can have them, help yourself.

Well-known Member

The problem I have is that my right as an adult to enjoy an age-restricted movie in peace-and-quiet is slowly becoming more and more impinged upon! And that, I don't like.

Whilst I have no problems with adults having the right to decide for themselves what their offspring can/can't watch, I think that choice should be kept to videos, and NOT cinema movies. That way, if a child can't handle what he/she is being shown, or doesn't understand it, the parents can stop the video and discuss it, without annoying everyone else in the audience who DOES understand/can handle it.

Someone asked about making the "15" certificate, advisory as well. Christ, I hope not! Imagine going to see "Schindler's List", "Saving Private Ryan" or "Terminator 2" and having to sit surrounded by parents who think that their little sprogs are going to be able to unerstand what they are seeing! I can just see it now....

"Mummy, why is that man looking for his arm?"
"Dad, why is that nasty man hacking that poor Jewish child's brains apart, with the end of his Ak47 assault-rifle?!"

Okay, I admit that that's a big, big exaggeration (as well as full of historical errors), but you get my drift at least?

Whether those of you who are parents like it or not, if I pay to go to the cinema and see an age-rated movie, I should be able to watch it, without having youngsters around me, who are probably emotionally unable to handle a lot fo the content of "12" certificate movies anyway.

I mean, realistically, how many 9, 10 or 11 year olds are really going to understand why certain films are "12" certificates in the first instance, and actually get why they are not supposed to see them?

How many parents are actually going to sit down and explain the reasons why the characters in "Spider-Man" resort to violence almost all the time, rather than discuss matters openly? How many parents are going to explain that the film "Beyond Enemy Lines" is actually about the war in Bosnia?

No offence, but who are we trying to kid here? Kids do grow up fast - I agree with that. But regardless, we should be protecting our children from the harsh realities of this world, for as long as is humanly possible, and NOT trying to get them to take on adult messages and themes, at a younger and younger age.

There's a big difference between arming a 10 year old with information about the dangers of drugs, of going off with a stranger, or having sex, but showing them these things in a fictional movie, where Hollywood tends to throw all moral issues out of the window, right from the opening scene, is kind of inappropriate, don't you think?!

Standard Member

I understand your point of veiw but i can't realy agree on a lot of it.

In my opinion there is not too soon an age to give your kids the information they need to suvive in life. I would of course never show my child a film that throws morals out the window and leave it at that for my child do decide .

If all a child saw in it's life was this sort of thing then i would be very woried .But if we teach are children right from wrong then they must see the wrong . Like on the subject of drugs . I don't just say don't take drugs to my kids .What good would that do . Instead i show them documentarys on drug taking to show them what it can do to people . Then they know what can realy happen if they take that ****e .

Films are not there to teach they are there to tell a story and nothing else . We are there to teach .

I do the same with most things . sex , Ihave told my 10 year old all about it . Not so he can do it but so he dos'nt do it .

I have tryed to teach him all there is to know about the second world war and what they did to the jews . Kids need to know this sort of thing . They need to know how evil people can be and how wrong it is to hate somone just for what they are . In my opinion too much is kept from kids and seeing these things is somtimes the only way to teach .Kids don't listen unless they have some point of reference

Just like strangers . No mater how much you tell a child not to talk to stragers thay are gona do it .You need to make them understand why .So i have sat through docs on child serial killers with my son to show him that it is real . That these people kill for no other reson than there own plesure.

I am not saying it is lovely for kids to know about these things but they are the truth . Life is no too great . There is a lot of evil in the world .

I have seen what it can do to somone to have everything kept from them . My wife was kept from the world and never let see anything . Then when she finaly left her parents she could not cope with life . She won't even answere the f***ing door unless i am there .She can't bring herself to watch any films with blood in them . she just can't cope .I have to watch most films on my own after she has gone to bed

I do realy know what you meen about kids in cinemas though .Like i said i don't realy take my kids to the cinema .My girl has atention defecit disorder and cannot sit though a film at all . I hate my kids bothering people just as much as those people hate being bothered .So i endup leaving half way through . Even if i am on my own at the cinema i won't eat anything so i don't make noise to bother people

Guest

I honestly do not think it will make too much difference. I've been in 15 rated films where adults have taken in children far younger than 15.

Also the cinema chain i go to UGC have now adopted a rather odd policy of taking your tickets before you get to the refreshments area. This means you are then free to go into whatever screen you like. Except for huge blockbusters where you are given a seat number and escorted to it.

My only concern is being disturbed whilst watching films at the cinema and i honestly do not think children with a responsible adult create much of a problem.

It is children without adults that do create a problem. Especially big groups of them. I never go to the cinema before 6 anymore because of this. I have also notice later showings are becoming louder due to younger adults going to the cinema after they have had a few.

Cinema chains need to take more responsibility in making sure the majority of people can watch films without being disturbed. I would recommend cinemas employing 1 person to check tickets in front of say 2 screens and then during the film they go from one to the other ensuring there are no selfish idiots spoiling the film

Guest

Bobbles has made some very good points. I honestly can't believe all the fuss being made by some members here about children in cinemas, especially when it's being blamed on a 12A certificate! Most newly-released 12A movies would probably have been released previously with a 12 certificate and been censored (no headbutts ladies and gentlemen ), NOT a 15 certificate. Studios have a historical track record of going down that path to increase the potential audience and thus profitability. And with a 12 movie, the kids could get in on their own and potentially cause more havoc unsupervised. In fact, most cinemas are terrible these days anyway - whoever populates them. If you go to daytime showings, you get rowdy kids and young teenagers. If you go to evening and late night showings, you get rowdy adults (particularly those who've just come out of the pub) and older teenagers . You can't win and, moreover, a 12A certificate doesn't make the remotest bit of difference to this!

Well-known Member

I agree with most of what Bobbles has said. However, with regards to the issue of getting cinemas to have more staff to check on customers before and during screenings, unless you've worked in a cinema, then you don't know what it is like.

I have worked in a cinema, small ones, and big 20-screen multiplexes! As such, I have first hand experience of the kind of stunts that kids pull to get in to see a movie they aren't supposed to.

As much as a cinema can, we do try to stop people pi**ing around in the screens, but more often than not, we are limited by what we can do. If you try to grab hold of a customer, to stop them from hitting you, the customer could (in theory) ask the police to charg you with assault/manhandling.

With kids, it's difficult to tell when they're just pi**ing around to impress their friends, or doing it to deliberately be annoying gits. Either way, it's not always a cinema's fault that kids sometimes get away with some of the stuff they do.

Yes, if I had my way, I would be extremely strict, and do the following:

- Have adults-only shows, so that people can watch a movie, hopefully uninterrupted.
- Ban all kids after 9pm, period, unless accompanied by parents!
- Make sure there were at least 2 staff per screen, including one staff member in the screening itself.
- Do more ticket checks, to verify age.
- Demand to see proof of age, for 12, 15 and 18-rated films, which would be restricted to original documents only (e.g. passport, drivers licence, photographic ID, or birth certificate.)

I know, that once again, I am generalising here, and appearing to state that all kids are unruly, however this isn't the case. Despite that, I have seen too many occurences when kids on their own, in groups, and with parents time-and-time again ruin a screening for other viewers. And so, having been both a customer and cinema worker, their appears to be only one solution - start banning kids or certainly being tougher on their behaviour.

The introduction of the new "12A" certificate only makes things easier for kids, and harder for adults who want to go see a movie in peace and quiet. Not to mention the problems of suitability of the film, regardless of what a parent/guardian says. I genuinely believe the cinema should have final say over who goes in or is refused to any film. After all, it's the cinema that will get into trouble if it does let in someone it probably shouldn't have, and NOT the parent/guardian!

Guest

Yes, if I had my way, I would be extremely strict, and do the following:

- Have adults-only shows, so that people can watch a movie, hopefully uninterrupted.
- Ban all kids after 9pm, period, unless accompanied by parents!
- Make sure there were at least 2 staff per screen, including one staff member in the screening itself.
- Do more ticket checks, to verify age.
- Demand to see proof of age, for 12, 15 and 18-rated films, which would be restricted to original documents only (e.g. passport, drivers licence, photographic ID, or birth certificate.)

Member

Have adults-only shows, so that people can watch a movie, hopefully uninterrupted.

The problem there is that age is no guarantee of good behaviour (or intelligence or consideration or anything else.) I know twelve-year-olds with whom I would happily share a cinema, and forty-year-olds I wouldn't have in the same room as me at any price.

The only sure-fire solution is to have the auditoria staffed by people who care about keeping conditions acceptable and don't mind using authoritative force to do so. Which of course is never again going to happen, given our social and economic climate.