topic Re:lets put today into perspective in Public Archivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320401#M146479
Well, still have my weaknesses, and letting my emotions run is still the most expensive habit I have. That is what makes discretionary trading so difficult. This last month has been disastrous for me, with a premeditaded bearish approach which has cost me both money on the wrong side of the bull run, and, worst of all, missed investment opportunities.Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:45:59 GMT2011-09-01T08:45:59Zlets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320361#M146459
As a discretionary trader, I always keep a set of rules pinned up next to me, to keep my emotions out and to remain clinical. Today's setup was pretty obvious - as pointed out in another thread. The entry was determined by what I term - opening price rejection. Usually I get this entry on the premarket action but today I had to wait for the cash market open. The opening 5 minute candle tells the whole story. I find that the 1st 2 hrs on the JSE are the best for counter trend trading. Now - normally, I would let a trade ride, but it is stupid to think that such a bull market is just going to up and reverse itself, so when trading against the trend, I take profits - always. My targets were again fib retracement levels. The fact that we shot past them is irrelevant. Now, I am looking for a long entry, but this drop is a bit too far for my comfort levels (past the 61% retracement level), so I will wait for bottom confirmation (normally I would make use of my 3 strike long system - but that is another story).Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:23:42 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320361#M1464592011-09-01T08:23:42ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320365#M146461
what you using to pace fibs ?? yesterday high/low ??Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:24:56 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320365#M146461SimonPB2011-09-01T08:24:56ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320371#M146464
my entry was just an engulfing candle, entry was 9.00 and just got stopped out .. 360 points which is a big trade for this system ..Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:26:24 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320371#M146464SimonPB2011-09-01T08:26:24ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320377#M146467
Yesterday high low on the futures - but they are really just to give perspective - they give a rough idea of range, and are not cast in stone levels.Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:29:04 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320377#M1464672011-09-01T08:29:04ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320383#M146470
Skaap, having listerned to your post over the years, it is remarkable to me how far you have come, of all the traders I know. I recon you will end this game a very wealthy and successful trader...keep it upThu, 01 Sep 2011 08:29:47 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320383#M146470john_12011-09-01T08:29:47ZRe:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320389#M146473
an I exit contracts onthe eway down, so only a few get the full points ..Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:30:22 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320389#M146473SimonPB2011-09-01T08:30:22ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320395#M146476
simon, I have been your engulfing and I have found it to be a very good trigger for the morning gap close..or trend reversal..like this monrbing.. much better odds then at other times of the day, but it has not been a statistical obsevatio just subjective.. have you found that with your results?Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:41:37 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320395#M146476john_12011-09-01T08:41:37ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320401#M146479
Well, still have my weaknesses, and letting my emotions run is still the most expensive habit I have. That is what makes discretionary trading so difficult. This last month has been disastrous for me, with a premeditaded bearish approach which has cost me both money on the wrong side of the bull run, and, worst of all, missed investment opportunities.Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:45:59 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320401#M1464792011-09-01T08:45:59ZRe:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320407#M146482
trying to trade without emotion is like trying to see with out eyes..you have to use your emotions as an indicator, yours and the marketsThu, 01 Sep 2011 09:04:38 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320407#M146482john_12011-09-01T09:04:38ZRe:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320413#M146485
err, explain to me how emotions help your trading ??Thu, 01 Sep 2011 09:11:35 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320413#M146485SimonPB2011-09-01T09:11:35ZRe:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320415#M146486
well we are trading in emotions... fear and greed, if you can feel either rising in yourself it is a good indicator, that there is money to be made. Also if you are feeling high levels of either it is often an indicator that the market is about to trade on you ie about to take your money..Thu, 01 Sep 2011 09:16:21 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320415#M146486john_12011-09-01T09:16:21ZRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320421#M146489
its a bit like the forum indicator... if everybody is shouting short...its probably not!Thu, 01 Sep 2011 09:18:19 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320421#M146489john_12011-09-01T09:18:19ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320429#M146493
So you would perhaps advocate strapping a heart rate monitor to your chest - and if it enters into the anaerobic zone - then there is sufficient volatility for you to enter your trade - only you have to enter a trade that is countrary to your current state of emotion? That is cold man! Cold! (but I like it - if it is doable?)Thu, 01 Sep 2011 09:25:55 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320429#M1464932011-09-01T09:25:55ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320433#M146495
john - the ultimate counter trend trader!Thu, 01 Sep 2011 09:26:57 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320433#M1464952011-09-01T09:26:57ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320437#M146497
ya but what is the emotion you are feeling ?? fear, fear of either losing money or losing out on making money .. either way you are than more likely to trade outside of your system and lose ..Thu, 01 Sep 2011 09:40:12 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320437#M146497SimonPB2011-09-01T09:40:12ZRe:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320443#M146500
For me it is both, but i also scared abt this market, after yesterday rally, i feel that the market is waiting for fools to enter now. Only fools will buy at those share price now ie VOD at R90.77. Sorry not me. I will wait for a massive pullback (if any) and then buy into weakness. This market reminds of those horror movie, there is danger lurking somewhere.Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:03:12 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320443#M146500Preston2011-09-01T10:03:12ZRe:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320449#M146503
exactly the point.. so fear means you woud ignore a buy signal .. that's the overall probem with emotions and discretionary trading ..<BR /><BR />ignore the noise and trade the price ..Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:09:16 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320449#M146503SimonPB2011-09-01T10:09:16ZRe:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320455#M146506
Simon - not sure of your definition of discretionary trading - but it is not about emotions at all - it is about adapting systems to reflect market dynamics, for example range trading vs trend following, etc. I challenge you to find a system that would have put you long at 27200? My rules did - because FTSE price action dicated that our selloff was overdone - and my 3 strike long system then kicked in. I was originally not going to - because of the selloff was too severe, but when put into perspective - it appeared overdone - and the risk reward potential of the trade kicked in. Emotions told me to stay out, but price action and discretionary interpretation told me to take the trade.Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:31:52 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320455#M1465062011-09-01T10:31:52ZRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320461#M146509
come on, there are infinate number of ways to get an entry at 27,200 .. there always is for all levels ..<BR /><BR /> discretionary is trading on big picture/world view ..Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:40:04 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320461#M146509SimonPB2011-09-01T10:40:04ZRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320467#M146512
OK - I concede the point regarding entries at 27200, but not your definition of discretionary trading. In its broadest definition, it is a style of trading that uses human judgement and decision making at every turn. My point was that it doesn't use emotion. Even Van Tharp pointed out that the most succesful traders in the world are discretionary. But my original point is that it is very difficult to keep emotion out of it, so discretionary trading still has to be systematic.Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:57:48 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320467#M1465122011-09-01T10:57:48ZRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320473#M146515
Employ people to trade for you - on commission. Ordinary people who have a little common sense and "paint(trade) by numbers."Thu, 01 Sep 2011 11:17:04 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320473#M146515THRESHOLD2011-09-01T11:17:04ZRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320479#M146518
Van Tharps point is rather that the people who make the most are discretionary .. but the majority of people who try discretionary fail ..Thu, 01 Sep 2011 11:21:32 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320479#M146518SimonPB2011-09-01T11:21:32ZRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320485#M146521
ie. The rare beast that has a "feel" for the market?? Or thinks he does!Thu, 01 Sep 2011 11:48:40 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320485#M146521THRESHOLD2011-09-01T11:48:40ZRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320491#M146524
or gets lucky ??Thu, 01 Sep 2011 11:56:14 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320491#M146524SimonPB2011-09-01T11:56:14ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320497#M146527
emotions and money<BR /> <A href="http://topics.bloomberg.com/behavioral-finance" target="_blank">http://topics.bloomberg.com/behavioral-finance</A>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 13:07:03 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320497#M146527SimonPB2011-09-01T13:07:03ZRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320503#M146530
Well, I don't consider myself lucky. I have a consistently applied logic to my trades which over the year has proven very successful. Except that I had a bad month in August, which I won't comment on!Thu, 01 Sep 2011 14:54:17 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320503#M1465302011-09-01T14:54:17ZRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320509#M146533
:) wasn't suggesting you're lucky .. an by my definination I not even sure you're discretionary ..Fri, 02 Sep 2011 03:18:24 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320509#M146533SimonPB2011-09-02T03:18:24ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320515#M146536
I will say this - after "x" years of trading - I am still saying "I should have" &amp; "I knew it" &amp; "why didn't I..." I also spend a fair amount of time indulging in self-deprecation. Trading, it turns out, has been an ongoing attack on my self-esteem. And yet I persist. This is psychological warfare.Fri, 02 Sep 2011 04:05:36 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320515#M146536THRESHOLD2011-09-02T04:05:36ZRe:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320521#M146539
Case in point - you are up at 6am and blogging already - trade on brother!Fri, 02 Sep 2011 06:45:34 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320521#M1465392011-09-02T06:45:34ZRe:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320527#M146542
nah off for TV :) I always up early but only drinkin coffee unless TV calls ..Fri, 02 Sep 2011 06:47:57 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320527#M146542SimonPB2011-09-02T06:47:57ZRe:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320533#M146545
As I said - doubting my sanity. BUT actually suffering from an early retirement. So I keep my own hours. Benn up and reading financials since 4am. Yawn.Fri, 02 Sep 2011 06:51:58 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320533#M146545THRESHOLD2011-09-02T06:51:58ZRe:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320539#M146548
I think you need to do a 10km run at 4am in the morning. Imagine all the happy cells you will have once trading begins at 9am.Fri, 02 Sep 2011 06:58:59 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320539#M146548Preston2011-09-02T06:58:59ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320545#M146551
poor old coot , he retired with not enough dough , now hes up stressing at 4am because of ulcers and a bad prostate .Fri, 02 Sep 2011 07:04:12 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320545#M146551fusion123212011-09-02T07:04:12ZRe:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320551#M146554
Retired at 36. 6 years ago. I am a prisoner of my assets. I have plenty of dough though. BUT thanks for caring. LOL.Fri, 02 Sep 2011 07:06:49 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320551#M146554THRESHOLD2011-09-02T07:06:49ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320557#M146557
Wish I could retire at 36, got 5 years to go first....Fri, 02 Sep 2011 07:08:16 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320557#M146557BoburUncle2011-09-02T07:08:16ZRe:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320563#M146560
I'll trade you my early retirement for your 11 years.Fri, 02 Sep 2011 07:21:33 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320563#M146560THRESHOLD2011-09-02T07:21:33ZRe:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320569#M146563
Bob, that is a very bad deal.Fri, 02 Sep 2011 07:31:49 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320569#M146563Preston2011-09-02T07:31:49ZRe:Re:Re:Re:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320575#M146566
I see that...Fri, 02 Sep 2011 07:34:23 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320575#M146566BoburUncle2011-09-02T07:34:23ZRe:lets put today into perspectivehttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320581#M146569
I tried early retirement for 4 months....sitting in front of the computer screen everyday for eternity was not for me.....back to my day job but trading on daily charts ...now making money, lots of it, with very little time(10 minutes a day) spent in front of computer screen...."Rich in Time"(unquote, SP Brown)Fri, 02 Sep 2011 09:17:41 GMThttps://community.standardbank.co.za/t5/Public-Archive/lets-put-today-into-perspective/m-p/320581#M146569Rams2011-09-02T09:17:41Z