I saw this on facebook and it made me think of Ken. I saw ken posted something similar on facebook and now another friend posted something that I found shocking. 2/3 of Millenials have no idea what this picture means. Before we blame the "indoctrination of the liberal elite through public school", let's realize that something this important should be shared by parents. It's not the job of the state to tell kids everything they need to know. Parents are doing a CRAP job of educating their own children evidently. If this image means nothing to most Millenials, it's a travesty of parenting imho.https://www.thevintagenews.com/2019/05/06/a...u3vwZZJ0iG1vlek

It most certainly IS the job of the state in public schools to teach something as historically significant as this. In fact there is a huge amount of important history that is not taught that most certainly should be. Maybe parents should talk about it with their kids as well but the real TRAVESTY is with the schools obviously. You do make a good argument for home schooling though which I believe consistently yields better results than public schools.

To be honest I also find it plain wrong about millenials who doesn't know about what the Holocaust is/was but unable to identify a German word with 1-2 pictures isn't something to go crazy about.

As said, not knowing at least important events in history that changed the whole world is simply wrong, but will say for our generation I feel the holocaust is over-sold. Maybe 100's of movies, even more documentaries...its as if some people gained too much money using those scars.

So that overselling even might have caused the new generation to lack interest, similar to why they are much less into politics.

I'd agree, it's part of their job to teach history. However, relying on the state is no excuse IMHO. In my experience, state school is NOT great. There are gaps in students education that stem from a bad educational system. The fact that 2/3 of millenials don't know about the Holocaust is a failure of education but I don't expect much from public education. I expect quite a bit from parents.

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Jun 1 2019, 03:42 PM)

It most certainly IS the job of the state in public schools to teach something as historically significant as this. In fact there is a huge amount of important history that is not taught that most certainly should be. Maybe parents should talk about it with their kids as well but the real TRAVESTY is with the schools obviously. You do make a good argument for home schooling though which I believe consistently yields better results than public schools.

It being "over sold" would indicate that everyone should know something about it right? It seems it's been undersold to millenials. Despite TV/movies/documentaries, etc. 2/3 of millentials can't identify auschwitz. Forget about the german letters. They can't recognize this place based on the picture. Not a few of them 2/3 of them. That's a travesty. Public education is not great in my country, so I would expect 2/3 of public school students to have huge gaps in education. It seems parents of millenials are no longer sharing important information with their children. It's like not being able to identify Martin Luther King Jr from a picture, or Ghandi from a picture, or the white house from a picture. It's such a huge part of world history and the history of the human race that it seems like it would merit being discussed by parent with children. My father discussed quite a bit about history with me over the years. learned far more from him than I ever learned in school. Perhaps the parents of millenials don't know the information to begin with. Our collective awareness of our own history seems to be diminishing.

QUOTE (klasaine @ Jun 1 2019, 05:52 PM)

Did you really just say that the Holocaust is oversold?No wonder the Armenians are pissed.

How do you mean "exploited", can you give us an example of the Holocaust being exploited in media so we can understand what you are saying?

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 1 2019, 06:32 PM)

I disrespect how its used through media (exploited by media), not the event itself. Why can't they be 2 different things?

How do you mean "exploited", can you give us an example of the Holocaust being exploited in media so we can understand what you are saying?

I don't feel education or awareness motivations when I watch something about it for a while now. The construction of images/ story-line are too much like watching an action or drama movie of some sort.

To me it has almost became a "franchise idea" which is almost guarantied to profit for the makers or companies. Thats why I use the term exploit; exploiting of the event and exploiting the peoples emotions in a disrespectful intention (money).

I don't feel education or awareness motivations when I watch something about it for a while now. The construction of images/ story-line are too much like watching an action or drama movie of some sort.

To me it has almost became a "franchise idea" which is almost guarantied to profit for the makers or companies. Thats why I use the term exploit; exploiting of the event and exploiting the peoples emotions in a disrespectful intention (money).

You might remember almost 3 years ago we had a coup de at in Turkey. It was no holocaust by many comparisons, but people died brutally and was bad to say the least.

So after that they started naming places after the event, media kept on going (news, talk-shows, documentaries, movies...each production lead to a bigger one (!), then politicians used it on their campaigns...so in time this "overselling" today lead people (who actually witnessed the event) disconnected/un-interested.

It simply turned into something else than what it should have been, maybe the word is tabu (?). Likely the thing that caused Kris to be expelled from Kemper forums because he used images of WW2 in his music video, which I feel is happening to me right now...

I think we are talking about different things? I was just saying it's sad that millenials have no idea what a picture of the most notorious concentration camp in history looks like. It seems that just that demographic has trouble recognizing the image. It's a failure of education but also a failure of parenting imho. Really important stuff should be taught by parents to their children imho. Slavery, the Holocaust, etc. Otherwise, kids grow up with huge gaps in their awareness of the world.

You may have a bit of a skewed view on this simply from cultural/regional issues. So it may just be coming off a bit wrong from a lack of intercultural understanding.

I don't think anyone is trying to expell you from GMC though? Has anyone said they were going to expell you from here?

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 1 2019, 06:54 PM)

I don't feel education or awareness motivations when I watch something about it for a while now. The construction of images/ story-line are too much like watching an action or drama movie of some sort.

To me it has almost became a "franchise idea" which is almost guarantied to profit for the makers or companies. Thats why I use the term exploit; exploiting of the event and exploiting the peoples emotions in a disrespectful intention (money).

Yes and my comment was meant to be connected to the lack of knowledge from millennials in this study. Reasons can be various, one and probably most troubling is I believe there might a lack of interest from their side to the subject, as you said after all those movies etc. and having the luxury of internet. It's easy to google but for some reason they don't and that also must be investigated, right?

Then I gave some opinions and even an example from my experience on my previous post as where the un-interest is coming from. Point being though the event is marked to history, how its understood, emotionally absorbed/reflected etc. by next generations (or even 3 years later) can be quite different from the previous. You blamed education system, I blamed media its simple as that.

And yes (connected to media argument) I also pointed out some people gained ridiculous money or political interest to their advantage from this horrible event even today. Its a fact not an opinion, my fault was I thought it was digested enough to be argued (as in perspectives, not the matter itself ofcourse). Now I realize some things with some people cannot be argued for a different perspective as they take it as an attack immediately, can be religion/carrying gun/climate change/evolution etc. apparently this is one of them. Emotion dominating logic too soon and strongly to have a chance of a proper conversation.

What I mean of arguing perspectives by example; You may want to discuss Ramadan or hijab with a muslim, without the intention of arguing islam. But they take it as you're attacking islam... in my case I tried to discuss media intentions.

I wasn't pointing out expelling; but the reflex that attacked Kris. He got a bit out of the box (for a German) with no bad intention, then a "reflex" from the other side attacked him without much listening or consideration trying to wear his shoes on the matter. Notice I've been attacked 2 times in this topic already, me keeping it cool doesn't mean they weren't offending you know... But out of respect I'm still trying to give a proper explanation.

And yes; Turkey was one of the few countries that managed that war without a nose bleed, its only natural my point of view not having the same emotional connection to you guys but I pointed out several times I'm not trying to disrespect.

I also pointed out some people gained ridiculous money or political interest to their advantage from this horrible event even today. Its a fact not an opinion,

Nobody makes ridiculous money or achieves political gain from the holocaust.Here, I'll give an opposite example.One of the strongest modern films about the Holocaust is Steven Spielberg's "Schindler's List". After all the studio (Universal) bills were paid, all the profit in perpetuity goes to the USC (university of southern California) Shoah foundation. Spielberg took no salary at all from the film.

*The film was low-budget by Hollywood film standards, only $22 million total. It paid for itself in the first week's release. Current gross - $97 million, so $75 million given to the Shoah Foundation ... https://sfi.usc.edu/about

C'mon thats just one example and add TV show/documentary's to it the list is likely endless, its not mandatory to donate if subject is used isn't it? And you can't be believing every politicians every speech since the war ended (specially including campaign speeches) was from the bottom of their heart (as likely most of those speeches were written by their staff).

Of-course realistically some money has to be gained but where's the line? apparently no one seems to ask that question.

Edit; Go back enough in time and no one would believe a priest would steal money from church or something worse, but stuff like these happen every week if not day in my country and USA too, shows like family guy etc. even make fun of these. For a believer, their religion is just as important as the holocaust but if turned a blind eye things can be corrupt.

Connecting to the topic, who knows maybe millennials feel same or similar to my argument regarding the media aspect to it but they can't be blamed for being scared to talk about it. As said, the lack of interest is frightening but they shouldn't be the ones to blame.

Well, the media is not responsible for the education of young people. That falls to the education system and parents. So while the media can be blamed for all sorts of things, blaming them for this seems a bit beside the point since it's not their job to educate our young people on important issues. Our education system seems to have failed badly, (as rich pointed out it is there job to at least try to educate our young people) and parents have failed badly (they are the ones ultimately responsible for their children, more so than any state based institution).Having said that, the media in general is a business and they act like one. They need eyeballs as that translates to money. As far as their approach, debates range far and wide. But they are not the ones responsible here so I'm willing to give them a pass on this one.I hope you dont' feel personallly attacked here. I read the thread again and I didn't see any personal attacks? Name calling, etc. I'm sure none was intended. This seems a pretty calm discussion?

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 2 2019, 11:17 AM)

C'mon thats just one example and add TV show/documentary's to it the list is likely endless, its not mandatory to donate if subject is used isn't it? And you can't be believing every politicians every speech since the war ended (specially including campaign speeches) was from the bottom of their heart (as likely most of those speeches were written by their staff).

Of-course realistically some money has to be gained but where's the line? apparently no one seems to ask that question.

Edit; Go back enough in time and no one would believe a priest would steal money from church or something worse, but stuff like these happen every week if not day in my country and USA too, shows like family guy etc. even make fun of these. For a believer, their religion is just as important as the holocaust but if turned a blind eye things can be corrupt.

Connecting to the topic, who knows maybe millennials feel same or similar to my argument regarding the media aspect to it but they can't be blamed for being scared to talk about it. As said, the lack of interest is frightening but they shouldn't be the ones to blame.

There is no one making money off the Holocaust except for maybe the anti-Semitic vermin that have lately been crawling out from under their rocks to spread vile and malicious lies about said topic and said people. Yes, nationalistic scapegoating is, once again, becoming big business. Try not to buy into it.

Ken is spot on here IMHO. Those making the most out of the recent antisemitic/anti immigrant wave are the "Nationalists" (anti-immigrant/proto fascist) who have come to power in ITALY and come to power in FRANCE. It's these folks that seem to be making profit off of the suffering of others. Much more so than any media company.

The anti immigrant/racist "Far Right League" won big in the recent Italian Election.

In france, the anti immigrant/nationalist party (national front) has long been accused of racism/antisemitism. Recently the "Yellow Vest " moviement in france recently has been coopted by anti semitic rabble rousers.

across europe there has been a huge spike in antisemitic attacks and a rise in anti immigrant fervor. It's all very disturbing.

The original reason I brought up this study about millenials not being able to recognize a concentration camp is that we seem to be moving back toward the same type of sick thinking that led to it in the first place.

QUOTE (klasaine @ Jun 2 2019, 06:38 PM)

This is the last thing I'm gonna say on this topic ...

There is no one making money off the Holocaust except for maybe the anti-Semitic vermin that have lately been crawling out from under their rocks to spread vile and malicious lies about said topic and said people. Yes, nationalistic scapegoating is, once again, becoming big business. Try not to buy into it.

Honestly though, I've heard those words before but I would never be able to link them specifically to Auschwitz more just generally as a phrase thrown around in WWII, and I've been to both Auschwitz and Dachau in person. I'm probably one of the most anti-racist and anti-nazi people you'll find. I mostly remember the gas-chambers and feelings of hatred, most of the times I just try to forget that people can be that grim toward others.

I do agree though, people should be taught about these things.

Thanks for sharing this.

This post has been edited by verciazghra: Jun 3 2019, 02:03 AM

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"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

It's not knowing what the picture of that concentration camp is and that 2/3 of millienials can't identify it that made me stop and read. My Dad taught me more about history than I ever learned in school. That tradition seems to have faded a bit. I hope the tradition makes a comeback

QUOTE (verciazghra @ Jun 2 2019, 09:02 PM)

Honestly though, I've heard those words before but I would never be able to link them specifically to Auschwitz more just generally as a phrase thrown around in WWII, and I've been to both Auschwitz and Dachau in person. I'm probably one of the most anti-racist and anti-nazi people you'll find. I mostly remember the gas-chambers and feelings of hatred, most of the times I just try to forget that people can be that grim toward others.