Part of a solid Cleveland Indian postseason team year after year from 1995-99 and 2001. Played in two WS during that time. His defensive play would have clearly helped his team towards this postseason worthiness for 6 of 7 seasons. It’s also worth mentioning that this was from ages 28-34 for his consistency. I would also like to highlight a statistic that most people overlook when it comes to your sometimes lighter hitters, or simply in general about hitters. That is the amount of walks they have and compare that with their H+BB to OBP+SB = result of RBI+R.

First let me note that Omar Vizquel was not given the free pass (intentional walk), but was actually pitched to. He batted against quite formidable pitching staffs, being the Red Sox, Braves, Orioles, Yankees (in their steroid era), Marlins, and Braves. I would like to note that Vizquel’s Indians did lose the 1995 pennant to a clearly non-steroid Brave’s great pitching rotation (3 likely eventual HoF players within).

Now to my statistical point that you can’t judge a small hitter by his cover:
Vizquel’s total postseason Dudas’ formula for batter stats from 1995-99 plus 2001 …

H+BB to OBP+SB = result of RBI+R
57+25 to .327+23 = 20+28

Get over just looking at someone’s BA or being enamored with SLG and see how many times a player really got on base and what they did completely around the bases. When you do this, you see that Omar Vizquel was not only just top 5 at his defensive position, but also consistently brought something offensively to his team. Not just in the regular season, but in the postseason as well for an extended period of time.

Take into consideration that on the overall basis, Vizquel played in the heavier SLG hitting, steroid era, but still managed to be an offensive factor. When you look from the true perspective that I devised based on the given/tracked statistics of baseball.

Keep Omar Vizquel within his era and the multiple eras he played within, and he is overall a Hall of Fame player for not just his defensive achievements. Sure, some of those players at his position or that he batted against have championships, but many of those teams also have the stigma of steroid use attached to such championships. And longevity does count when it comes to Omar Vizquel, who is not a steroid user while not being intentionally walked, but survived into and through the steroid era to have a defensive and offensive career.

I would love for someone to take out all of the known steroid users and see where Vizquel would have truly been ranked when it came to MVP, GG and AS votes.

Now I submit Omar Vizquel’s Dudas’ Formula for career from 1989-2011 …

H+BB to OBP+SB = result of RBI+R
2841+1021(3962) to .337+401 = 944+1432(2376)
* Note that Vizquel did not strike out a lot, which

Vizquel will likely end up having …
– On base over 4,000 times in his career.
> Switch-Hitter
> Likely end up between 16-17th all-time in singles.
– Advanced towards becoming a Run over 400 times.
– Been a part of over 2,400 Runs and RBI’s.
> Made contact as a result of his AB 80.2% of the time, which highlights moving runners.
— Whether a Hit or an Out, but put the in field of play.
— Remaining 19.8% is either a BB or SO.
> Currently 37th all-time in Sacrifice Hits & 51st in Sacrifice Flies.
— 4 more SH’s will get Vizquel to a tie for 32nd all-time.

At this point, as far as longevity goes, Rusty Staub compares to Omar Vizquel, if both are looked at as relatively modern to each other. Staub isn’t in the Hall of Fame, but in light of the steroid era players already within or to come into the HoF ballot process, I feel Rusty Staub deserves enshrinement. It’s Gold Gloves that Staub lacks, but his offensive capabilities were clean. Almost all players around Rusty Staub and Omar Vizquel, as for longevity, are in the Hall of Fame. Those that are not either have steroids connected to them (Bonds and Palmeiro), have extra circumstances (Rose), or have yet to hit the ballot process (Biggio).

And I don’t want to hear the longevity works against Omar Vizquel argument anymore. Concepcion didn’t play nearly as long and his equal time statistics do not compare to Omar Vizquel’s. I clearly see why Ozzie Smith would be in the HoF, but Concepcion would not. But compare the other longevity and common to Vizquel in statistics players for equal point of career… and you see that Pewee Reese, Rabbit Maranville, and Luis Aparicio are all in the Hall of Fame. Omar Vizquel is clearly between Concepcion’s and Ozzie Smith’s standards set by performance over career. As far as players that played through 44 years old: Bobby Wallace, Sam Rice, Jim O’Rourke, Carlton Fisk, and Johnny Evers are all in the Hall of Fame. Wallace, Fisk, and Evers are near precise as for BA, while Vizquel batted between roughly 2,000 to 4,000 times more.

There are too many players that are Hall of Famers that Omar Vizquel compares to in just batting statistics for him to not be included in the Hall of Fame. And that is without going into the defensive superiority that Vizquel displayed during his career. Julio Franco’s total hits compared with his strike outs work against him, though I am engrossed in his achievements of age. Omar Vizquel is like Rusty Staub, who has hits and amount of walks combined with low strike out total, though Rusty and some of the other similar Hall of Famers have OBP higher. But when you compare to the similar Hall of Fame batters, Omar has 11 defensive Gold Gloves. And that Gold Glove total makes Omar Vizquel tied for 8th best all-time defensively speaking across all baseball positions.

The obvious next question would be why Vazquez and not Hernandez? The roughly 800 or more Hits total difference in the end. Even though the two have the exact amount of Gold Gloves. Even with Hernandez’ two WS rings and 1979 NL MVP award. But Vizquel has 14 seasons with 120+ hits compared to Hernandez’ 10. Because longevity does count for something. Because Hernandez’ last 120+ hits effort was at 33 years old while Vizquel’s was at the age of 40 (95 hits at the age of 43).

Sometimes you have to distinguish between two careers based on longevity over achievements based on a team effort. Hernandez has obvious team achievements and the personal awards, but he simply lacks the overall career total standard of hits for the modern era. Omar Vizquel is close to that crowning accomplishment and his offensive and defensive achievements compare to many already in the Hall of Fame.

]]>By: dondbaseballhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-253327
Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:17:42 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-253327I try to be objective when it comes assessing bloggers opinions and especially so for writers on this site like Poulliot and others. 1st though, when it comes to Hall of Famers I follow the 1.5 second rule that if you have to think about longer than that they usually don’t belong. There are exceptions of course, so when I play OV out, he doesn’t have any real counting stats, he never was dominant that warrants real analysis. But let’s continue, his gold gloves are noteworthy but I also think many were not earned. He his not Ozzie Smith. Ozzie had 6 seasons in top 22 MVP considerations and 1 Silver Slugger. Plus 15 All-star appearances (4-6 probably not earned but most were), with his OPS+ of 87 vs. OV with 1 MVP consideration, zero SS, 3 all-stars and an OPS+ of 82. I still think dWAR needs major reconfiguration but using what we have- Ozzie has 64.6/43 oWAR/21.6 dWAR while OV has 42.3/29 oWAR/13.3 dWAR. So Ozzie’s offense WAR out performs OV’s total WAR. So sorry Matthew, yours was not a logical post that he will walk into the hall on the third vote. To be honest, that was as poor a perspective as I have seen here.
]]>By: genericcommenterhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252968
Sat, 28 Jan 2012 04:27:52 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252968Tommy John pitched a long time and had some very good seasons. He didn’t come close. Though if he had 1 more decent season, he would have been automatic. One more 1987 ( 13 wins, 4.03 ERA, 63/47 K/BB in 187 IP) and he’s in, instead of topping out at 31.7%. He played until he was 46! but not a HOFer.

Vizquel, is he HOFer now? Or does he magically become one if he manages to hang around 3 more seasons as a part-time below average batter and accumulate 159 hits?

maybe Harold Baines should be in, too.

]]>By: emeraldbladehttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252953
Sat, 28 Jan 2012 02:43:44 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252953Comparing Omar and Ozzie is easy. First of all I think it is safe to say the Omar did not use PEDs. Secondly using dWar and oWar is subjective strangely enough. Does anyone understand the full formula that is used to make these “ratings”? I am guessing a handful no more. The rating is used as a measuring stick, but accounts mainly for era versus opponents of the same era. Now if the players one competed with were cheating and you were not it WILL skewer the results, no question. You must then do your actual homework and find cold facts not BCS ratings or War ratings to settle it. Here is what I have.

Omar made an out on 91% of the plays he touched the ball on defensively, so did Ozzie. Both of which were 2% higher then average. One played in an era were 6% more balls were put in play, accounting for the difference in plays made.

Only in perception are these players different, anyone that looks just at what they both were can see they are about as similar of players as you will ever see

]]>By: brewer3http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252931
Sat, 28 Jan 2012 00:47:21 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252931Vizquel will have better career OPSBA and RUNX2 than Smith.
]]>By: Lucashttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252854
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:01:56 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252854How does a post about a SS and the HOF end up having a Jack Morris rant in it? Is it really necessary to bring up Morris every time a HOF discussion is brought up? Haven’t we beat this enough in our talks about, you know, Morris’ HOF chances?

I wanted to see Morris in the HOF. I was a kid during essentially his entire career, and I am a die-hard Tigers fan. I remember him being a GREAT pitcher at the time. However…I must admit, I can see where he’s not HOF-worthy, and that’s OK (Hall of Very Good). As much as I’d like to see another Tiger in the HOF, I don’t think he belongs.

Now, Alan Trammell AND Lou Whitaker, on the other hand….they both belong. It’s a damn shame neither is getting enough support (and the pitiful support Whitaker got was almost criminal).

As far as Vizquel goes…Again, I have watched him his entire career, and he’s one of those “Hall of Very Good” guys, I don’t believe he’s a HOF’er. I’m not a fan of compiling stats based on playing forever either, and you’re right-he was never really considered *the* best, or even really *one of the* best at his position (although he’s always been well-regarded defensively).

Don’t use errors. If a person can’t reach a ball, they can’t get charged with an error. Let’s look at what they did on the field though. In 188 less games played, Smith made or contributed to an out 876 more times than Vizquel.

]]>By: kiwicrickethttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252791
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:03:36 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252791One of my favorite players of all time. Couldn’t care less about the HOF nonsense, just over the moon he is playing another season.
]]>By: Detroit Michaelhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252776
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:45:39 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252776Don’t you think Hall of Fame voters should examine who good a player performed in total, not just how good his #1 skill was?
]]>By: churchoftheperpetuallyoutragedhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252775
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:44:11 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252775

Can’t say anything for sure about the others ahead of him. I am not saying he is for sure a HOF guy, but it gets dicey when comparing players using just their numbers in the steroids league.

If Arod had just came into the league at age 30, he’d have put up more offensive value than Vizquel in 23 years.

]]>By: kjv623http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252768
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:36:53 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252768I think that Visquel is worth a HOF induction, no question. In my opinion Ozzie Smith made it into the hall based almost entirely on his defensive abilities (and the occasional backflip). Say what you will about different eras, Jeters and A-Rod’s aren’t on every team. Vizquel’s offensive lines are eerily similar to that of Smith’s. Defensively though, Vizquel had one error every 66 chances, while Smith had one error every 46. To say that Smith was far more superior in the field is inaccurate and having watched Vizquel make ridiculous plays at SS for the Giants while past his prime was incredible.
]]>By: catsmeathttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252753
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:20:47 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252753If Vizquel gets in on defense alone, might as well back up the truck and put Mark Belanger in the HoF, too. Someone call the Veterans Committee.
]]>By: cur68http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252749
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:16:02 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252749‘haze of bong’ posting :) snorted coffee up my nose when I read that . . .
]]>By: bigtrav425http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252722
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:51:52 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252722vizquel is a hall of famer for his defense and defense alone.while he may have never been a top 10 player,when he was with the tribe he was hands down the best defensive SS in the game.i personally thought he was a lil better then ozzie offensively.he was a pretty decent 2 hole hitter behind lofton
]]>By: rooney24http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252721
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:51:19 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252721Although, AT LEAST ONE of those 4 “better” shortstops used roids to put up the better offensive numbers. Can’t say anything for sure about the others ahead of him. I am not saying he is for sure a HOF guy, but it gets dicey when comparing players using just their numbers in the steroids league.
]]>By: 18thstreethttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252710
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:37:15 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252710You know what? I’ve stopped caring what the Hall of Fame voters think. The same people who, eventually, voted for Andre Dawson and Jim Rice now refuse to vote for Tim Raines. They let in Tony Perez but now reject Jeff Bagwell. Not “The Hall of Fame,” but real, regular people who voted made those decisions.

One could visit the Sears Towers and say, “Wow! That’s tall.” And then you could visit Mt. Kilimanjaro and say, “Wow, that’s tall, but the Sears Tower was taller.” And you’d be an idiot. That’s where we are on Hall of Fame voting.

They don’t know. And if they want to vote for Omar Vizquel instead Alan Trammel, they’ll just confirm it again.

]]>By: jwbiiihttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252709
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:35:12 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252709Adult admission: $17.50.
]]>By: 18thstreethttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252706
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:31:40 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252706You know what? There’s a ton of good shortstops. Whenever anyone says, “You have to see him every day to appreciate how good he is,” it’s another way of saying, “Wow! Shortstops are really great athletes.”
]]>By: Detroit Michaelhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252688
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:06:46 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252688Johnny Damon has a chance also to pass up Baines in the race for “most hits by a guy who clearly doesn’t deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.” That’s admittedly a subjective criteria. Some people might say Rafael Palmeiro holds that title but it seems to me without the steroid news he would be a Hall of Fame caliber player.
]]>By: Detroit Michaelhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252684
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:02:41 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252684I’d be amazed if Vizquel was elected to the BBWAA in his third (or fewer) year on the ballot. That prediction is way out on a limb in my perception.

Ozzie Smith was voted in by the writers, but Ashburn, Mazeroski and Schalk (other prominent glove-first Hall of Famers) were voted in by veterans committees.

]]>By: thefalcon123http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252674
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:49:26 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252674….of course it involves offense. That is part of the game. If someone hit 500 home runs but dropped every single fly ball hit to him and gave those runs back with his awful defense, I wouldn’t endorse him for the hall of fame either. I’m not saying someone has to be a complete player, but you look at the sum of their value. Some people draw theirs almost entirely from offense, sum mostly from defense.

The point is, the sum of Vizquel’s value is far below that most HOF shortstops. If given the choice of building a team, any sensible GM would choose Ripken, Jeter, Smith, Trammel in their over Vizquel. They increase the liklihood of you winning the game more than Vizquel would.

]]>By: Chipmakerhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252673
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:48:35 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252673Defensive-dominant candidates tend to need a touch of legendry to be elected, and Vizquel surely won’t be considered based upon his offense. Ozzie had legend; so did Mazeroski, though the Series-winning HR certainly helped a lot. Omar doesn’t really have legend — he’s got the duration and the “good defense” rep and the Gold Gloves, but a few signature moments? I can’t think of any.
]]>By: nategearharthttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252669
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:42:01 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252669I think defense alone does merit induction IF defense alone makes you the best at your position, like Ozzie Smith. Vizquel was better at defense than Ripken, Jeter, Garciaparra, Rodriguez, and Tejada…BUT his bad offense made him less valuable OVERALL than all those guys.
]]>By: paperlionshttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252668
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:40:36 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252668…and his defense alone wan’t good enough.
]]>By: thomas2727http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252659
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:34:00 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252659Vizquel is only 26 hits behind Harold Baines as the champion of being close to 3,000 hits and not deserving a Hall of Fame induction. Baines magical number of 2,866 would be replaced by whatever Vizquel ends up with.

Think if Vizquel eeks out another 159 hits to get to 3,000. Never mind it would have taken him 25 years. Most voters would probably rubber stamp his ballot as a Hall of Famer.

]]>By: sloozeronymoushttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/27/omar-vizquel-and-the-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-252657
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:33:07 +0000http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=108337#comment-252657People DO get into the HOF for being awesome at only one thing (be it hitting or fielding) as opposed to both offense and defense. You may not agree with that, but it happens.

So for the folks saying Vizquel was only the 4th best shortstop of his era, or that his WAR doesn’t really compare to Ozzie Smith’s, you’re not finishing your argument b/c that stuff involves offense. Was he the best defensive shortstop of his era or not? How do his advanced defensive metrics compare to Smith’s? (BTW, assists sound sort of like RBIs to me.)

Not saying you guys are wrong (I’ll always love Vizquel whether or not he’s in the HOF), I’m just saying you’re not correctly framing the issue…unless you think defense alone should not merit HOF induction, in which case, please say that first.