This was probably allready posted but i dont have time to read all 40 pages...so im starting on doing some vocals for my band i need some instructions..im growling the right way but i cant get that black metal screams which are my goal...i dont have problems with bands like bloodbath, amon amarth...i manage the deep growls...so im asking is there a special technique or at least couple of bands/songs i can train with.thanks

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pmPosts: 302Location: United States of America

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:07 pm

Supreme Human - Try practicing while sitting (if you don't already), something about cutting off part of your air supply can push you towards getting more efficiency of airflow which somehow leads to more distortion.

I mean that the notes were extremely poorly intonated. You have to practice a lot to be able to reach such high notes and keep the pitch stable, because otherwise you won't really be able to use them in your singing.

kale100 so you mean i stop every one a while? i mean i dont really have problems growling while sitting...someone said to me that i should open my mouth much more than when i do with deep growls but when i do that it sounds more like someone taking a shit than black metal growl..is it possible that my growl is not developed yet (im 17 years old and i'm not growling for a long time).

I'm still looking for some songs or artists which would be good for starting black metal vocals.. At the moment i'm training with satyricon and dissecion (K.I.N.G an elizabeth)..so if anyone has any suggestions please tell me

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pmPosts: 6928Location: The Land Down Under (no, not THAT one)

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:35 pm

Last week I started singin' classes. Don't know what the hell happened to my voice, but it seems like I'm actually a bass, and not a regular baritone like I thought. Kinda cool though. There aren't many bass singers in rock/metal music

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Earthcubed wrote:

Xlxlx, I'm very proud of you for standing up to the cisgender patriarchy and embracing who you really are. No matter what others may say always remember: you are beautiful and you are a goddamn empanada.

Last week I started singin' classes. Don't know what the hell happened to my voice, but it seems like I'm actually a bass, and not a regular baritone like I thought. Kinda cool though. There aren't many bass singers in rock/metal music

Alright then!

I actually feel sorry for you.

In all seriousness I do find singing to be a strange thing. I do enjoy it alot (although you shouldn't ask me why as I have no clue about that yet) but at the same time I dislike how its something related to condition and you can't pick out your vocal type. I'm sure that I'll eventually be an ok singer if I practice things well and at the moment restrain myself with the high notes and everything. Yesterday's singing lesson was pretty good. In a scale I have little problem singing higher (e.g I went up an E5 quite smoothly and instead of singing up one octave from A2 to A3 I hit an A4 without strain) but applying these notes to songs can be hard. Ah well.

I'm still not exactly sure about my vocal type however.

EDIT: So I downloaded this pitch detector software but doubt it's 100% trust worthy however. According to it I've hit an A5 which I believe (although I can't use it into a song and it would sound very scratchy) since I'm aware I ocassionally am able to go higher than my regular range. but according to the thing I've also hit a F6.

Welcome to the clan of the mighty basses then! Some may say it's not the coolest range since it's not very used in popular music, but think of it this way: we are few, and we always get the roles of Gods, kings, emperors and whatnot, so there's that.

Your teacher will probably tell you this, but just in case it's a shitty teacher: don't try to bring down the walls with your überlows right now or you will harm your voice; focus on working your upper range, get good at it, and with time the low end will come on it's own; bass and alto voices are the ones that take the longest to develop, so don't rush it!

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pmPosts: 6928Location: The Land Down Under (no, not THAT one)

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:26 pm

Thank you for the nice words and the tips Garth, seriously appreciate it! And yeah, my teacher told me it would be a good idea to first work in my mid-upper range, though I admittedly can't wait to work more on my lows! They still come off very naturally though, so I'm in no rush to develop them more, at least for now. And the beard will come along soon, I promise

There's one thing that bothers me though; the fact that I have no idea how to apply my vocals to metal. I'm in a hard rock band myself, and I can make it work by using a bluesy style (accentuated with a Morrison-esque rasp here and there), but I'd like to sing in a metal band some day, and I just don't know how I could make it work. But then again, I'd also like to do some stuff akin to Depeche Mode, so.....

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Earthcubed wrote:

Xlxlx, I'm very proud of you for standing up to the cisgender patriarchy and embracing who you really are. No matter what others may say always remember: you are beautiful and you are a goddamn empanada.

If you mean it because of the regular approach of soaring high ear screeching notes that's usually taken on these genres, know that your delivery has nothing to do with how high you can go; as long as you deliver YOUR highs with the intensity and meaning needed, it will sound good.use the contrast to your advantage as well, don't stay al the time on the upper part of your range, rather go low before reaching a high part and let the chiaroscuro mark the accent in the phrase.

On a side note, I have to say I.don't get the deal with the obsession some people has with reaching extreme notes just for the hell of it. focus on getting quality in the sound of your proper rang, and then work on expanding it, as much as you want as long as you can keep a steady quality and sonoritynon the notes. whats the point of reachin an a9999 if it sonds like a strangled chicken?

On a side note, I have to say I.don't get the deal with the obsession some people has with reaching extreme notes just for the hell of it. focus on getting quality in the sound of your proper rang, and then work on expanding it, as much as you want as long as you can keep a steady quality and sonoritynon the notes. whats the point of reachin an a9999 if it sonds like a strangled chicken?

Don't know if this was towards me, but you're right. Then again, there's a limit at both low notes and high notes. You don't want to sound like a strangled chicken, but not hardly human either when you try your lowest notes. (Don't take this as an insult towards bass singers or anything.)

Yesterday I sung along to a section of Virgin Steele's ''I Will Come for You'' hitting a solid A4 I believe. (which to my surprise didn't sound thin as I was used to!) The sample I recorded is just 20 seconds or so, so I might do the entire song and then upload it.

And it seems like my lowest note is an E2 after al...but it's not as comfortable as a F2.

Just had a singing lesson. Seems like I switch into headvoice at E4 (!) which is pretty high. My second passagio is at G4/A4 (last few days been a B4 already) which really is more of a tenor passagio than anything else...yet my vocal teacher is convinced I'm a baritone.

Anybody here know any tips for good long pained hate shrieking?I'm going for Deiphago/Gnaw their tongues/Watchmaker maybe even some of Apokolyptik AIDS more violent sections, hell I'd even settle for Phobia's high's, the problem is if I do that sort of stuff it still sounds a little like the more like the big norse BM sound rather than what I'm going for, also about 5 to 6 seconds in my throats toast, the last time I tried it I was hoarse for almost four days.

The highest note I can hit consistently is an A5. On good days I can get the B5, and once or twice I've hit C6, but those were basically screams, so they hardly count. From B4 up I'm pretty comfortable, but G#4, A4, and A#4 are more difficult. That transition from chest to head voice is a challenge. I mean, I can sing 'Queen of the Reich' far more easily than 'I Don't Believe in Love'. =P I'm happy with my upper range as far as notes I can hit, but I don't think my tone is that good, and that seems to be the harder thing to improve. Any tips on how to do this?

Also, is it possible to expand your range downwards? I can get down to E2 without much difficulty, and sometimes D2, but it's quiet and kind of... gravelly? Not a good, clean note, I mean.

The highest note I can hit consistently is an A5. On good days I can get the B5, and once or twice I've hit C6, but those were basically screams, so they hardly count. From B4 up I'm pretty comfortable, but G#4, A4, and A#4 are more difficult. That transition from chest to head voice is a challenge. I mean, I can sing 'Queen of the Reich' far more easily than 'I Don't Believe in Love'. =P I'm happy with my upper range as far as notes I can hit, but I don't think my tone is that good, and that seems to be the harder thing to improve. Any tips on how to do this?

Also, is it possible to expand your range downwards? I can get down to E2 without much difficulty, and sometimes D2, but it's quiet and kind of... gravelly? Not a good, clean note, I mean.

Yes, it is possible to expand your range donwards as well, henche some tenors are able to hit quite low notes. No idea how exactly though - if there's anything I'd extend then it's my high range. Perhaps you could get a vocal coach and record something. There aren't many clean vocalists here so I'd like to hear what you've got.

Since I've been singing easier stuff I've noticed some real improvement. I can sing entire lines in G4's now. The A4 is a little harder and B4 is still a bitch to sing. As far as range goes I'm still as I was before (F2-F5) with some occassionally lower/high notes, these are E2 and G5, maybe a strained and messed up A5 at times but for now I'm only worried about technique and tone.

The highest note I can hit consistently is an A5...I can get down to E2 without much difficulty,

I agree with colin040 that it'd be interesting to hear a recording of this. Being able to consistently hit between E2 and A5 would mean that you have a usable vocal range of three octaves and a fourth. To put that in perspective, most adult voices with proper vocal coaching will reach a limit of about two usable octaves worth of notes. Your Freddie Mercury-esque wunderkinds might at a stretch be able to reach about three octaves, and you are claiming that you can consistently get a whole fourth above that. Or, to put it another way, you're claiming to be a minor third away from having a standard tuned 21-fret guitar in your throat. Not to be a negative nancy but it's difficult for me to accept that you haven't overestimated yourself a tad there

As a side note, which colin040sort of touched on already, although the internet and popular culture make quite a big deal out of vocal range, aside from determining the kinds of songs and roles (If you're into that kind of music) you're suitable for singing (And it's probably just generally nice to have a large/unusual range), it's actually pretty secondary in terms of getting a decent sound compared to things like phrasing, articulation, breath control and tone (Witness the seemingly endless parade of Geoff Tate clones who, despite having the range, sound nowhere near as brilliant as the original). And yeah, you can usually reach lower notes after a bit of practice than you could have in an untrained state, though generally the notes you acquire on top will outnumber those you acquire on the bottom, and everyone has some kind of natural limit. I wouldn't try to force it though, work on singing with proper technique and your range should sort itself out naturally. Getting a teacher is probably a good idea, at least to begin with, it's usually easier to sort out vocal issues in person than over the internet, plus they're generally more qualified than random strangers on the internet.

_________________"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;Rush in and die, dogs--I was a man before I was a king." - R. Howard

I'll get a recording for you guys when I've got some time, preferably alone. It's quite loud. I'm not overestimating myself when I say I can hit A5. I'm also not claiming to sound nearly as good as Geoff Tate, Russell Allen, John Arch, and so on. I made a real effort two years to try to expand my range, as I was pretty boxed in back then, with a usable range of about an octave and a half. So I watched some videos and started doing vocal exercises, and as the months passed, I noticed real progress. But tone and control remain problems for me when I start getting into the upper register, so I still have a long way to go. I tell you this so that you don't take me as bragging. I'm definitely not. I'm proud of the advances I've made, but they're just that - advances, not mastery. To tell you the truth, my 'best' singing voice is in the midrange, which is very comfortable for me, and my best tone comes from singing at relatively low volume. Basically like Jonas Renkse or Vincent Cavanagh. In my own songs, I rarely write vocal melodies that go very high, partly because I mostly write melancholy acoustic songs, and partly because I recognize that 'wailing' isn't my strength. But enough of that, you'll hear for yourself soon enough. Just don't judge it too harshly, all right? =P

Edit: Oh and yeah, I'd really like to get some actual vocal coaching. I'd love to see how much it'd help me. =D

Because of Colin, I've been practicing those famous connected high notes from DT's Learning to Live and have it sounding pretty great now. I can hit some fucking high notes, there's no doubt in my mind anymore that I'm a tenor.

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theposaga about a Moonblood rehearsal wrote:

So good. Makes me want to break up with my girlfriend, quit my job and never move out of my parents house. Just totally destroy my life for Satan.

Because of Colin, I've been practicing those famous connected high notes from DT's Learning to Live and have it sounding pretty great now. I can hit some fucking high notes, there's no doubt in my mind anymore that I'm a tenor.

Perhaps you could cover the ending vocal section of that song. I'd like to hear your midrange as well actually. You've proven to me that you can wail but I'm interested in hearing your regular voice.

And yeah, your highest notes aren't really useful if you can't use them properly or if they sound decent at best (which is pretty ironic because despite knowing this of myself, I often keep wailing along to my favourite vocalists.)

The A4 note is still pretty hard to sing, but a single one can sound quite chesty which I'm actually really proud of.The B4 is a complete different story though.

I'm actually also thinking of the idea that I'm actually a low tenor. I posted some samples on another forum where I've been told that I am. After hearing myself on a recording I'm thinking about this too. A few things to consider:

Thiestru, I don't think you're bragging intentionally, but given the choice between accepting that you're a miracle of nature, and that you might have unintentionally made some kind of error when calculating your range, reason compels me to fully explore the latter possibility before accepting the former, I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. And don't worry about me being overly critical of your performance, I don't really have the space to be (I can record a performance of myself if you're interested, though I can gaurantee poor quality. My familiarity with the mechanics of vocal performance is mostly down to the standard information that gets taught to composition students about range and singability plus personal curiosity).

Colin, the problem with the Soprano/Mezzo/Alto/Tenor/Baritone/Bass classification system is that it developed in order to classify performers of the standard classical operatic and choral repertoire. Even between operatic and choral singing there is some discrepancy, for example, the highest note a choral tenor would ever be expected to sing would be around an A4, whereas an operatic tenor would generally be expected to be able to reach a C5. When these classifications are further applied to singers in pop, rock, metal, jazz and so on, it tends to become a bit of a clusterfuck and ultimately not particularly helpful. Unless you're looking to try out for the part of Siegfried at your local operatic society, I'd worry less about giving yourself a perfect fitting label and more about what exact kind of repertoire you're comfortable singing. Though if you want your curiosity satisfied, I'd say the acid test for whether or not you're a proper tenor would be whether you can comfortably hit tenor C (C5). Since most of the classic metal tenors could reach into that region it seems to be a fairly practical way of distuinguishing. Otherwise I'd agree with what your teacher has said about you being a baritone (Albeit quite a high one).

_________________"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;Rush in and die, dogs--I was a man before I was a king." - R. Howard

I'd worry less about giving yourself a perfect fitting label and more about what exact kind of repertoire you're comfortable singing. Though if you want your curiosity satisfied, I'd say the acid test for whether or not you're a proper tenor would be whether you can comfortably hit tenor C (C5).

You're right that labels are just labels. Personally I find it pretty interesting which is why I care about vocal ranges/types of famous singers so you can get an idea of what a, say, a high baritone sounds while hitting a high C compared to a low tenor.

For the test: yeah, I can hit a C5 quite easily if I warmed up well. The thing is, even before I had singing lessons I, when warmed up some could belt some fluent 5th octave notes. I could mail you some vocal samples if you'd like so you'll have an idea of my voice. (Though I don't have many at the moment.)

I'd say out of my entire 3 octave range, about 2 1/4, at best 2/4 sounds solid but I'm positive that I'll eventually become a decent singer if I practice enough. (That is, once my coughing stops. It's getting colder and my voice is already affected. )

My teacher could be right...but then again she says there aren't really subtypes of baritone singers which I don't agree: there's quite some difference between, say, Peter Steele and Roger Daltrey. She also says passagio notes aren't different for certain vocal types which I also really doubt. That's why I don't trust her 100% so neither about my vocal type.

No subtypes of baritone singers? You've probably misunderstood what she meant, or else she's obviously not very knowledgeable and you should probably be looking for another singing teacher. Passagio notes aren't different, as in that every signing person in the world possesses exactly the same passagio? That thought is so incredibly retarded that I again I think you've misunderstood her meaning. There are probably bass singers whose passagio is lower than some tenors' lowest chest notes.