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Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris

Why cant you have both??? Have professional guards in case no one volunteers. Give teachers the option to train and carry to extra supplement the guardianship. This is obviously the best and most strategic choice for massacre control. I don't get why you are so vehement on "PICK ONE".

What vehement? I am not being vehement, just insist on pointing out how flawed the feel good CCW teacher 'fix' is.

Just am a bit amused that after so many posts calling teachers subversive socialists some 'conservatives' now believe there will be enough of these Union sheeple willing to go against all of that and strap-on some iron and here is a burr under the saddle, spend many hours training far above any CCW requirement when the same 'conservatives' decry the willingness of teachers to work hard enough at their jobs as it is?

This is not MY opinion of teachers, go look at any thread involving teachers.

I see a lot of git more 'guns' talk as if that is the only fix. There are many other security measures that don't have teachers carrying deadly force in classrooms.

I saw a commercial the other day where the voice over asked, "Do you really want your doctor doing your job? Then why do you want to do his?" Given the condition many 'conservatives' see our educational system in I'd a bet a shiny nickle they wouldn't want any diversion from 120% focus on teaching our children and let the security team focus on keeping crazy out the building.

Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

Originally Posted by notquiteright

What vehement? I am not being vehement, just insist on pointing out how flawed the feel good CCW teacher 'fix' is.

Just am a bit amused that after so many posts calling teachers subversive socialists some 'conservatives' now believe there will be enough of these Union sheeple willing to go against all of that and strap-on some iron and here is a burr under the saddle, spend many hours training far above any CCW requirement when the same 'conservatives' decry the willingness of teachers to work hard enough at their jobs as it is?

This is not MY opinion of teachers, go look at any thread involving teachers.

I see a lot of git more 'guns' talk as if that is the only fix. There are many other security measures that don't have teachers carrying deadly force in classrooms.

I saw a commercial the other day where the voice over asked, "Do you really want your doctor doing your job? Then why do you want to do his?" Given the condition many 'conservatives' see our educational system in I'd a bet a shiny nickle they wouldn't want any diversion from 120% focus on teaching our children and let the security team focus on keeping crazy out the building.

Not vehement, just experienced and practical.

Carrying a gun is not a job. It is a right which promotes self defense. In order for teachers to bust through the No Gun Zone they should be able to seek training (on their own or through taxpayers, I don't care which to be honest) to facilitate a true guardianship. Not a pseudo-guardianship.

I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris

Carrying a gun is not a job. It is a right which promotes self defense. In order for teachers to bust through the No Gun Zone they should be able to seek training (on their own or through taxpayers, I don't care which to be honest) to facilitate a true guardianship. Not a pseudo-guardianship.

It is a right of self defense that can and is restricted by law. There are many places a CCW can't pack heat- Court Houses, bars and any place the owner says no firearms allowed with the proper signage- for that matter I can ban firearms on my ranch AND carry them myself.

Carrying a pistol as part of a defensive plan for a school is a job. You can't claim self defense AND guardianship. Now limit teachers to CCW only and not permit them to do anything but lock the classroom door and wait to see if the badguy(s) break-in is one thing, have them running down the hall with an M4orgery TOWARD the badguy isn't self defense, it is the JOB of security.

So what training should these teachers seek and do you think a meaningful number will?

Just a nit pik, but 'true' guardianship doesn't mean deadly force. Millions of parents have 'true' guardianship but no firearms.

Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

Originally Posted by notquiteright

It is a right of self defense that can and is restricted by law. There are many places a CCW can't pack heat- Court Houses, bars and any place the owner says no firearms allowed with the proper signage- for that matter I can ban firearms on my ranch AND carry them myself.

Carrying a pistol as part of a defensive plan for a school is a job. You can't claim self defense AND guardianship. Now limit teachers to CCW only and not permit them to do anything but lock the classroom door and wait to see if the badguy(s) break-in is one thing, have them running down the hall with an M4orgery TOWARD the badguy isn't self defense, it is the JOB of security.

So what training should these teachers seek and do you think a meaningful number will?

Just a nit pik, but 'true' guardianship doesn't mean deadly force. Millions of parents have 'true' guardianship but no firearms.

I wouldn't want teachers patrolling the hallways with guns. Your lock the door and wait for the bad guy seems like a good approach. Or maybe a "circling of wagons" approach where teachers herd the kids to hid behind the teachers with guns as they escape as SOME form of defense until police arrive. Training should include gun safety, accuracy, and explanation of extra harsh punishments if they abuse the weapon in any way.

I mean true guardianship as in the option to be able to defend with a firearm should they want to. Like a parent.

I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

Originally Posted by Wiseone

Either gun owners hang onto the narrative that they are law abiding citizens, that no one needs to fear for them being armed, or they can support actions like this. You can't have it both ways were you talk about stopping criminals, while you are currently breaking the law. Now I get it that her crime is far far from a murder or a shooting, but it is still illegal what she did.

I am a gun owner and I dont obey all the laws with good reason. If its nessary then I will be judged by twelve rather than carried by six.

Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.

I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.

Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris

I wouldn't want teachers patrolling the hallways with guns. Your lock the door and wait for the bad guy seems like a good approach. Or maybe a "circling of wagons" approach where teachers herd the kids to hid behind the teachers with guns as they escape as SOME form of defense until police arrive. Training should include gun safety, accuracy, and explanation of extra harsh punishments if they abuse the weapon in any way.

I mean true guardianship as in the option to be able to defend with a firearm should they want to. Like a parent.

Moving the children into the halls in some circle the wagon maneuver could also be exposing class after class to piecemeal destruction as they attempt to covey-up. Better than that do what we did for a wide variety of threats- tactical spacing. To prevent one artillery round, grenade, burst of fire from taking out most of a unit we spread out and took cover, dug in at night and never bunched up.

I'd say, compartmentalize and defend the doorway, much easier for those with minimum training.

Sounds like a good plan until we think on it some. A trend I noticed since Columbine is the badguys come from the school itself, stands to reason they would know which teacher packed and which one didn't. For that matter having a brother/sister/kid in the building that attends the school gets that vital bit of Intel.

Another something to think on is not all kids are sweet innocent 1st graders. Metal detectors and professional security is as much to protect teachers and students from bad apple kids on a daily basis as any mass murderer.

Which brings me an interesting warping of logic on the 'ban' debate. When decrying attempts to restrict mag cap, or the sale of more AR/AK semi auto rifles ardent 2nd A defenders point out the number of incidents are quite low so we don't need to restrict anything, yet those same numbers are driving a call to introduce many more firearms into the classrooms with little if any consideration of either better physical security or a dedicated security team in school or the daily downside to having more weapons in school.

I don't see the tragedy as a good opening to stop firearm sales OR open the door to armed teachers with a lot lower level of training than true professionals circulating among the students.

Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

While I don't condone her action, I can understand the fear that made her do this.

2. She told a teacher she had a gun.

If she would have kept silent, nobody would have known the gun was there...until some 20 year old nutjob came into the school with evil intent. Then she might be considered a hero.

On the other hand, that mother who had a "little mini-breakdown" really needs to get a grip on life.

Who cares, she has the Constitutional right to a) own a gun and b) take it wherever she wants... I suppose the school has its own policies, however carrying a gun is a civil right and liberty.. I would suggest the school rethink their position on the issue.

Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

Originally Posted by Mr.Nick

Who cares, she has the Constitutional right to a) own a gun and b) take it wherever she wants... I suppose the school has its own policies, however carrying a gun is a civil right and liberty.. I would suggest the school rethink their position on the issue.

I don't know about her locality, but here in Colorado she would be violating a law by taking a gun into the school as she did.

In any case, the school forbade her from bringing a gun to school, so even if she didn't violate any laws, they would be justified in firing her.

I agree with your suggestion that the school should rethink their position, but I support their right to whatever position they adopt.

Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

Originally Posted by Mr.Nick

Who cares, she has the Constitutional right to a) own a gun and b) take it wherever she wants... I suppose the school has its own policies, however carrying a gun is a civil right and liberty.. I would suggest the school rethink their position on the issue.

Regardless of what kind of permit one carries, private property rights supersede one's right to carry a firearm where it's forbidden. "I don't care of you have a carry permit or not, you're not coming in my house with a firearm." (I personally don't feel that way, but anyone who does? That's their inalienable right.

Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

Originally Posted by notquiteright

Moving the children into the halls in some circle the wagon maneuver could also be exposing class after class to piecemeal destruction as they attempt to covey-up. Better than that do what we did for a wide variety of threats- tactical spacing. To prevent one artillery round, grenade, burst of fire from taking out most of a unit we spread out and took cover, dug in at night and never bunched up.

I'd say, compartmentalize and defend the doorway, much easier for those with minimum training.

Sounds like a good plan until we think on it some. A trend I noticed since Columbine is the badguys come from the school itself, stands to reason they would know which teacher packed and which one didn't. For that matter having a brother/sister/kid in the building that attends the school gets that vital bit of Intel.

Another something to think on is not all kids are sweet innocent 1st graders. Metal detectors and professional security is as much to protect teachers and students from bad apple kids on a daily basis as any mass murderer.

Which brings me an interesting warping of logic on the 'ban' debate. When decrying attempts to restrict mag cap, or the sale of more AR/AK semi auto rifles ardent 2nd A defenders point out the number of incidents are quite low so we don't need to restrict anything, yet those same numbers are driving a call to introduce many more firearms into the classrooms with little if any consideration of either better physical security or a dedicated security team in school or the daily downside to having more weapons in school.

I don't see the tragedy as a good opening to stop firearm sales OR open the door to armed teachers with a lot lower level of training than true professionals circulating among the students.

I guess it depends on how many teachers are willing to arm themselves. If only 2 teachers did then im might be best for them to creep towards the gunshots and try to ambush once they think the crazie might cross paths. If 10 teachers did then your idea probably sounds best, try to spread these teachers out across the school evenly with their home classrooms. And maybe have 2 designated hunters out of the 10 to give sitting duck rooms SOME chance. If half the teachers were armed then it might be best for half of that half to nest on the kids while the other half protects a moving convoy of kids until they safely make it off school grounds, then goes back for more.

If the principle had a weapons locker then you could also take into account weaponized guardian teachers guarding more unarmed teachers to this locker. (maybe. I think some would argue don't put a gun in the hands of the untrained. But I think a killer is more likely to flee or stop hostilities if they see a huge group of armed people.)

I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."