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Re: Premium Edition SpC

If someone has acquired the Premium Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 Player's Handbook with Errata, I'd be interested in knowing if they've updated Spring Attack to match the text in the leather-bound Special Edition Player's Handbook 3.5:

When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can split your move action in that round in order to move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can't use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.

You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.

That was some "stealth errata" there, and knowing if WotC included it would tell a lot about their attention to detail regarding the 3.5 edition of D&D.

Re: Premium Edition SpC

So, apparently they've gone through with their idea of releasing the Core books, plus a few essential supplements in Premium editions, before releasing Next?

Will we see an updated Draconic Polymorph spell, or will they remove that bit from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list?

That said: the one thing I'm really interested regarding the Premium PHB is the Paladin. Are there any stealth changes that might regard some notice? I'd say the same about the Monk, and Power Attack (every time I've seen the feat in a non-book system, it usually caps at 5 points).

Here's hoping that those news also involve a Premium MIC. I already have those books, but the MIC is a book that I believe is a must-have. I presume they'll also do a reprint of the Rules Compendium.

Retooler of D&D 3.5 (and 5e/Next) content. See here for more.
Now with a comprehensive guide for 3.5 Paladin players porting to Pathfinder. Also available for 5th EditionOn Lawful Good:

Originally Posted by firebrandtoluc

My friend is currently playing a paladin. It's way outside his normal zone. I told him to try to channel Santa Claus, Mr. Rogers, and Kermit the Frog. Until someone refuses to try to get off the naughty list. Then become Optimus Prime.

Re: Premium Edition SpC

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

If someone has acquired the Premium Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 Player's Handbook with Errata, I'd be interested in knowing if they've updated Spring Attack to match the text in the leather-bound Special Edition Player's Handbook 3.5: That was some "stealth errata" there, and knowing if WotC included it would tell a lot about their attention to detail regarding the 3.5 edition of D&D.

Re: Premium Edition SpC

Non-book system? Are you referring to D&D computer games? Because they almost always bastardize the rules for the sake of balance or game mechanics or <insert excuse here>.

Basically. Pathfinder does the same as well.

That said, it's a strange coincidence that PA is always limited to a +5 bonus to damage (+10 with 2-handed weapons) instead of how the system works. It leads me to think that the intention of the developers was to limit PA to +5, just like with Combat Expertise (which reminds me: what would have happened if Combat Expertise was similar to PA, with the same bonus if fighting with a weapon in one hand and nothing in the other?). I mean, even Pathfinder went with the idea, and that's a successor system.

Retooler of D&D 3.5 (and 5e/Next) content. See here for more.
Now with a comprehensive guide for 3.5 Paladin players porting to Pathfinder. Also available for 5th EditionOn Lawful Good:

Originally Posted by firebrandtoluc

My friend is currently playing a paladin. It's way outside his normal zone. I told him to try to channel Santa Claus, Mr. Rogers, and Kermit the Frog. Until someone refuses to try to get off the naughty list. Then become Optimus Prime.

Re: Premium Edition SpC

Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar

Basically. Pathfinder does the same as well.

That said, it's a strange coincidence that PA is always limited to a +5 bonus to damage (+10 with 2-handed weapons) instead of how the system works. It leads me to think that the intention of the developers was to limit PA to +5, just like with Combat Expertise (which reminds me: what would have happened if Combat Expertise was similar to PA, with the same bonus if fighting with a weapon in one hand and nothing in the other?). I mean, even Pathfinder went with the idea, and that's a successor system.

Limiting a number to 5 or 10 is no coincidence at all. There are a number of plausible explanation for doing this.

1. They may have been copying one another. Power Attack is a pretty classic feat and possibly the most common feat ever taken. The idea that one group of people making a D&D video game would copy another group of people making a video game isn't surprising at all.
2. Also, there are effectively 20 levels in D&D and splitting that number up into half (10) or one fourth (5) gets you those same numbers.
3. Giving a person a penalty of -5 to attack isn't a huge surprise and won't be too painful. A first level melee character like a Fighter or Barbarian is likely to have around 18 strength and +1 BAB. That's +5 to attack, which is also the same number as the common video game Power Attack penalty.
4. The penalty to attack from Combat Expertise is -5. This is a feat that deserves the limitation since a character with high enough AC can get to the point where they're only hit 1/20 times. A party with a character of AC 40 and three of AC 20 creates an odd and difficult combination. This will be even more problematic if you're designing a computer game that isn't going to be modifying itself to artificially increase or decrease attack rolls based on the PC's AC.
5. Last and likely most relevant is the fact that we have 5 fingers and 2 hands. This may sound like a stupid reason to you, but its the real reason why we have a Base 10 math system. If everyone had 3 hands and 6 fingers on each, we would likely have a Base 18 math system and Power Attack would give a -6 penalty to attack. It's also the reason why our calendar was based on 10 months (before Caesar and Augustus changed it) and the reason for all sorts of other things in our lives.

Five is a very common number and it should be of no surprise to anyone that it would get picked out for use in almost anything.

Re: Premium Edition SpC

Originally Posted by Marthinwurer

It's still there. Just looked at mine.

I'm not sure exactly what you're confirming. Is the original Spring Attack text "still there", or the Special EditionSpring Attack text "still there"? The latter has never gotten into errata files or the SRD.

Re: Premium Edition SpC

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I'm not sure exactly what you're confirming. Is the original Spring Attack text "still there", or the Special EditionSpring Attack text "still there"? The latter has never gotten into errata files or the SRD.

For Reference: (the original text)

Originally Posted by SRD

Spring Attack [General]
Prerequisites

Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit

When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You cant use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.

You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.
Special

Re: Premium Edition SpC

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I'm not sure exactly what you're confirming. Is the original Spring Attack text "still there", or the Special EditionSpring Attack text "still there"? The latter has never gotten into errata files or the SRD.

Re: Premium Edition SpC

Originally Posted by nedz

For Reference: (the original text)

What are the implications of this rule change ?

It removes ambiguity about the actions used. A rule which says "you can move both before and after the attack", without specifying what action (if any) is used, can be read as granting that movement for free, greatly increasing the power of the feat. In particular, the "attack action" in between the movement could be a full attack action. If you need to use a (split) move action for a Spring Attack you probably won't also be able to execute a full attack.

Re: Premium Edition SpC

If it weren't because of my lack of funds, I'd look for the Premium 1st Edition of Unearthed Arcana, because of the loads of options. Though it might have to come with the Premium 1st Edition PHB.

It's a surprise to see the 2nd Edition Corebooks re-released, as well. Might have to go pay a look at Amazon.com every now and then, to see if the MIC will be re-released in a Premium version (even if I already have it). Something says anyone who buys the Core books of D&D Next will need ALL of the other PHBs...

Retooler of D&D 3.5 (and 5e/Next) content. See here for more.
Now with a comprehensive guide for 3.5 Paladin players porting to Pathfinder. Also available for 5th EditionOn Lawful Good:

Originally Posted by firebrandtoluc

My friend is currently playing a paladin. It's way outside his normal zone. I told him to try to channel Santa Claus, Mr. Rogers, and Kermit the Frog. Until someone refuses to try to get off the naughty list. Then become Optimus Prime.