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Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

It's you who doesn't know your history. Samaras was finance minister in the late 90s, before the launch of the Euro, in that period when they were fixing the stats, assisted by Goldman Sachs and with the connivance of the ECB, IMF and other EU countries.

"The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

"Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by polgara

Is Greece even minimally able to go back to using the drachma and exist on its exports for awhile, if it comes to that?

I suspect not. The new drachma would be worthless, and Greece would not be able to tap international credit markets. So how exactly would they pay for basic things like... fuel. Without fuel, the country cant run.. it is as simple as that. Add to that food and other things that the Greeks import. Car parts.. suddenly getting your car fixed goes up several hundred pro cent.. that is if you can afford buying gasoline of course.

Now the argument for the pro-Grexit people would be that, the Greek exports would become cheap.. yea that is true, but at the same time the imports would become extremely expensive. So only things produced in Greece would be affordable to locals, and this can cause problems in the short run. Also as someone above pointed out, Greece does not have a big export business. This can of course grow due its cheapness, but that takes time.. something that Greece does not have.

Another argument for the pro-Grexit people is that, yes but tourist would flock to Greece because it is so cheap. This is true, but would people really want to go to Greece, a country in social upheaval? Not to mention.. remember the first point.. fuel? How fun is it to be in a country where the power goes out? I mean there are cheap places to go in the Balkans, and yet you dont really see Romania and Bulgaria as hotspots for tourists do you? Now Greece has history and is historically a tourist hotspot, but we have seen how tourism has suffered in 2009-2012.. it has picked up some what, but no where near as it should have and suddenly because they have a new currency then it should explode? I dont think so.

But the fundamental problem for Greece is that just because they make a new currency, this does not mean that they dont still owe all that money away... they do. So you will see lawsuits in many countries going after Greek assets abroad.. we have seen that with Iran and Argentina. And then there is of course all the deposits in Greece.. they will be converted to the new currency, but chances are that the loans that locals have will still be in Euros... which causes even bigger problems. You have savings and income in New Drachma that is worthless, but you need to pay your mortgage in Euros. We saw what that did in Iceland.. 25% of the home owners over night went belly up.

So the argument for a New Drachma all boils down to one thing.. the ability to print money and pay locals in that money.. they cant buy anything with it, but at least they are getting paid right?

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Andalublue

It's you who doesn't know your history. Samaras was finance minister in the late 90s, before the launch of the Euro, in that period when they were fixing the stats, assisted by Goldman Sachs and with the connivance of the ECB, IMF and other EU countries.

Shhh you are not allowed to point out such things for **** sake.. that is a big secret..... You have to promote that it was those damn socialists that were at fault and cooked the books, and not the real culprits!

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Andalublue

It's you who doesn't know your history. Samaras was finance minister in the late 90s, before the launch of the Euro, in that period when they were fixing the stats, assisted by Goldman Sachs and with the connivance of the ECB, IMF and other EU countries.

No, he was not. You are completely wrong, and uninformed.

"It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by PeteEU

Shhh you are not allowed to point out such things for **** sake.. that is a big secret..... You have to promote that it was those damn socialists that were at fault and cooked the books, and not the real culprits!

You're just as ignorant as he was. Samaras was not a member of any government between 1992 and 2009.

"It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Andalublue

It's you who doesn't know your history. Samaras was finance minister in the late 90s, before the launch of the Euro, in that period when they were fixing the stats, assisted by Goldman Sachs and with the connivance of the ECB, IMF and other EU countries.

Originally Posted by PeteEU

Shhh you are not allowed to point out such things for **** sake.. that is a big secret..... You have to promote that it was those damn socialists that were at fault and cooked the books, and not the real culprits!

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Jack Hays

They voted for Tsipras.

Because he promised them that he would end the austere conditions they have been saddled with, and better days were ahead! It was a big gamble he took, which is probably why he is now calling for a referendum - which he should have done weeks ago to let the people decide their future, but better late than never, I guess. What difference will a referendum vote make either way, because even if they agree with the EU and ECB, which I think is unlikely since they blame them for the austerity they've lived under, it might be a week too late, but.....

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by polgara

Because he promised them that he would end the austere conditions they have been saddled with, and better days were ahead! It was a big gamble he took, which is probably why he is now calling for a referendum - which he should have done weeks ago to let the people decide their future, but better late than never, I guess. What difference will a referendum vote make either way, because even if they agree with the EU and ECB, which I think is unlikely since they blame them for the austerity they've lived under, it might be a week too late, but.....

What he promised was never possible, and led directly to the current crisis. This was foreseeable.

"It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan