@LuminousAether the way people see 'QQ' is different for each individual. For instance smoking: there's people who find 1 sigarette a day much and there's people who find 20 sigarettes to 1 pack a day much.

I have read the words 'valor cap' and 'grinding' in 1 sentence way too much, so i see it as QQing.

I guess you find my post 'QQingly' because i'm giving a point, which some people agree with, by ranting about it.

I don't find it QQingly at all. It's just a matter of how see you the difference between QQing and giving a reason / ranting.

I always get something of a chuckle at the people who talk about VP gear/daily grinds/mandatory dailies etc in the same sentence as "being competitive" and "top of your game". Seen this mix in SO many of the daily threads...Thing is, the raids are designed to be able to be completed in heroic blues, so if you're actually at the top of your game, you don't NEED the grind gear. Therefore, if you NEED the gear to be competitive in your raid (clearly you're not competing for world/server firsts, or you'd have them by now), then you're probably not at the top of your game, and maybe there's other things you can do to improve that may actually make more of a difference than a higher ilvl ring or something.

Personally (currently a non-raider), I'm just slowly working through a couple at a time. I'll probably get there eventually, but if I don't, oh well, no biggie. I log on standing in my farm, plant my crop, do whatshisname's quest on the way over the hill to the Golden Lotus crew, blast out their dailies (wife wants tailoring patterns or something, which is why we're doing them), fly back over the hill to the farm, then queue for anything we're doing after that from there. Log out, sometime the next day I'll take 2 mins out of my day to list my crops on the AH (LOVE mobile AH - never have to go to an auction house again!! Why do people still QQ about no AH in Pandaria?), and repeat the next night. Doesn't feel grindy, takes about 20 mins each day if that.

No, it's not arguable. Dailies are optional, valor point gear is optional. If you were truly competitive and at the top of your game, you'd already be decked out in heroic MSV gear and you'd laugh at people doing dailies.

Whoosh, there went the point...right over your head.

Great job simplifying the game to elitists and nobodies with a sweeping generalization. Life is optional. Breathing is optional. Saying something is optional is optional....and it also has no weight to the reality of the discussion.

I just got Shado Pan and August Celestials to honored on my main, and am now focusing on VP grinding to buy the gear I can now acccess. The grinds to revered can wait.

"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

I am burned out, as are a lot of people I talk to. Spending 2 hours a day just on dailies, then moving On to content you want to play, is a bit much. To the extent that it isn't mandatory, think about this: I have two 90's at the moment. One of them is exalted with Tillers/cooking, the other is grinding Golden Lotus/Klaxxi. I easily valor cap the latter(my tank) and then start playing the former(healer/dps) once the valor buff kicks in. However, that toon isn't revered with anyone, so she is near valor cap, but needs two weeks of dailies to get rep to spend it. So add another hour of dailies or burn the valor.

Keep in mind that if you pay attention, you are already 'losing' 300 or so valor a week because of the cap if you run 1-2 dungeons a day, do the LFR, and work your dailies. It wasn't as bad with Cata because you had the daily limit and it only took 45 minutes to do the dailies.

Once you're done with rep, sure, it will be nice to do the dailies you like for valor and charms, but the thought of doing this all over again on any of my 4 other toons fills me with dread.

Anyway, I like MOP a lot. And in a couple more weeks, it will ease up some when I hit exalted on a couple of factions. But I'd really like to be able to just play my toons to focus on dungeons and such.

ETA: I am partly to blame here, as I made a strategic error in leveling my priest first thinking disc healing would be fun again, but I mostly play shadow because I am OOM all the time when disc healing. If I had focused on the tank from the beginning, then I would be pretty much done with him, and then could be more leisurely about my other toons.

Great job simplifying the game to elitists and nobodies with a sweeping generalization. Life is optional. Breathing is optional. Saying something is optional is optional....and it also has no weight to the reality of the discussion.

No, you just refuse to understand that dailies + LFR are how casuals gear up, arena + raids is how hardcore players gear up. You are trying to insinuate that you are forced to engage in the casual path to excel in the hardcore path but that's not true, at all.

I am burned out, as are a lot of people I talk to. Spending 2 hours a day just on dailies, then moving On to content you want to play, is a bit much. To the extent that it isn't mandatory, think about this: I have two 90's at the moment. One of them is exalted with Tillers/cooking, the other is grinding Golden Lotus/Klaxxi. I easily valor cap the latter(my tank) and then start playing the former(healer/dps) once the valor buff kicks in. However, that toon isn't revered with anyone, so she is near valor cap, but needs two weeks of dailies to get rep to spend it. So add another hour of dailies or burn the valor.

Keep in mind that if you pay attention, you are already 'losing' 300 or so valor a week because of the cap if you run 1-2 dungeons a day, do the LFR, and work your dailies. It wasn't as bad with Cata because you had the daily limit and it only took 45 minutes to do the dailies.

Once you're done with rep, sure, it will be nice to do the dailies you like for valor and charms, but the thought of doing this all over again on any of my 4 other toons fills me with dread.

Anyway, I like MOP a lot. And in a couple more weeks, it will ease up some when I hit exalted on a couple of factions. But I'd really like to be able to just play my toons to focus on dungeons and such.

2... hours a day? What? Why would you do that? There's no reason to spend more than 15-30 minutes a day on dailies. You are your problem, not the game. I would agree that spending 2 hours then moving on to what you want to do is a bit much, but that's an absurd statement because there's no reason whatsoever that you should spend 2 hours a day on dailies.

There's no reason to grind both Golden Lotus and Klaxxi. There's no possible way to gain enough valor to purchase all the gear from both of those factions until you've been exalted with both for weeks and weeks. Only do one at a time. Also, there's no possible way you could have an alt doing daily and not have factions to spend valor points on. You don't need revered to buy gear, you only need honored. Klaxxi has necks for sale and Golden Lotus has rings for sale at honored. Or, you could just focus on Golden Lotus and hit revered and purchase the chest or shoulders and you would not hit the valor cap (3000) before this. And again, an hour is an ABSURD statement. Golden Lotus takes 15-20 minutes, Klaxxi takes 10 minutes, Shado-Pan takes 10 minutes, August Celestials takes 5 minutes, Tillers takes 5 minutes, Cloud Serpent takes under 5 minutes... there's no reason whatsoever that you should be spending over an hour on these dailies.

Losing 300 valor? That doesn't even make sense. I hit the valor cap with ease on both of my 90s. I don't even have to try. In Cata, I didn't even do dailies. There was no point. They didn't provide rewards. They didn't give you valor or a currency to spend on extra loot rolls. Instead, you just wore a tabard and farmed dungeons which gave you the proper rewards. Cata was significantly worse because you didn't have to really play the game to get the rewards. So I would just get bored because there was nothing to do.

"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

I agree with everything in your post except that. Seriously though...the dailies truly do give players something to do between raids etc. Most players complaining about dailies are complaining about their own lack of self control. They are a lot more enjoyable if you don't try to cram all the reps down your own throat. Remember the Valor rewards are gated behind VP caps and many rewards are available at honored. I believe no VP rep rewards require more than Revered status. Take it slow...choose a few factions to work on at a time...and by no means should players do them if it feels like pulling teeth. Relax...take a deep breath, and log for the day (or switch to a different in-game activity for the evening). The dailies will still be there when you return.

Or, yknow, try to push all reps to exalted every day, burn yourself out, and then wail loudly about it on the internets.

I was doing a ton of dailies for the first few weeks and then I utterly burned out one night last week. Literally I wouldnt log on or even consider the game. Think I am over that hurdle now, but it was the closes to outright quitting I have been in a long time.

Originally Posted by melodramocracy

Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

I didn't need the neck or the ring when I hit exalted with both on my main. By that point, that crap is obsolete.

That's nice. For those who did not do normal mode raids, or spend their VP on the equivalent items, there IS a reason to grind those reps to exalted.

---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 11:03 PM ----------

Originally Posted by BrerBear

And starting tomorrow, Heart of Fear drops level 483 gear in Raid Finder.
Plenty of other ways to get comparable gear.

Last I checked, 489 > 483.

"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

Now that I've finally given up this idea that doing dailies is mandatory, and my guild is no longer pressuring us to max out everything, I'm starting to think that these dailies are actually kind of fun. Now, I log on and it actually feels more like there's a variety of things to choose from, rather than a long list of chores to do. I'm interested to see how this balance keeps up in future patches.

Anyone else starting to come around from the other side of burnout?

This is how I've dealt with them from the start. I knew that I wouldn't have enough time to do them all, so I've been only focusing on doing the ones I found interesting or fun for start, then when reaching exalted picked new reputation to max.

[This comment might contain some parts that shouldn't be taken seriously]