Post by PeterB on Aug 28, 2010 8:53:07 GMT -4

Rodin said at reply #298 of the Apollo jump proves hoax by rodin thread:

The Cold War itself was a total hoax - of this I am sure - and by implication so was the Space Race. We can run a thread on this if you like.

Let's do that.

I have a boardgame here called Twilight Struggle. It's a two player game about the Cold War, published by GMT Games. If you have the slightest interest in boardgames and the Cold War, I highly recommend it. It's not only a cracker of a game, it even includes the Space Race!

Now although it's a boardgame, game play itself is driven by the play of cards. The cards represent events which actually took place during the period 1945 to 1989. I'm going to list a portion of them, and if Rodin returns to the board, I'd like him to consider how to explain these events except in the context of a real geopolitical struggle between the USA and the USSR.

Now I shouldn't have to answer any questions to explain what any of these events mean. If Rodin doesn't know what they mean, then it shows he doesn't know as much about the Cold War as he thinks he did, and he should therefore research them before commenting.

If the Cold War was fake, why was it so easy to cross borders between various West European countries, but Eastern Europe was separated from the West by an extensive barrier of barbed wire, walls, minefields and armed guards ordered to shoot?

Post by tedward on Aug 29, 2010 8:30:04 GMT -4

This was seen in advance to some extent. The end of the WWII did not end well for Europe and Stalin was out to get as much as he could that included countries. Churchills Iron Curtain speech was bang on the button and the way the USSR put down uprisings with ruthlessness is not the sign of a secret deal. Thinking it was fake to suit a purpose is not the right way to go about it when so many died and so many were oppressed for a Communist ideal that was fought all over the world.

Post by abaddon on Aug 30, 2010 11:17:22 GMT -4

Sounds like an interesting game PeterB. [Peeks out of secret gamers closet]

One of the most spine tingling events for me was the fall of the Berlin Wall, an event I was sure would never happen in my lifetime.

After all the years of posturing and threats, it seemed unreal to see it happen in front of your own eyes. I was glued to the news.

And before Rodin claims it was fake, my sister was there. She lives in Germany. She even has a piece of the actual wall. She is even friends with some people who came over the wall, or under, or through. I have met them. Some of them have family who didn't get out, and are missing.

So don't give me that bogus "fake cold war" claim.

And while we are at it, here is a question for you, is there any conspiracy theory which you DON'T believe?

Post by Jason on Aug 30, 2010 11:24:21 GMT -4

I for one really wish the cold war was faked, because then we'd have nuclear power all over and this global warming thing wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue.

What?

Are you arguing that nuclear power is causing global warming? Even the most rabid pro-warmists admit that nuclear power doesn't emit greenhouse gasses.

Are you arguing that the Cold War caused global warming? And if it were faked then they wouldn't have built as many real tanks, planes, etc. that emit greenhouse gasses?

Or are you trying to say something entirely different?

'How shall a man judge what to do in such times?' 'As he ever has judged,' said Aragorn. 'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves, and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'

Post by Jason on Aug 30, 2010 11:31:23 GMT -4

I would guess, though I can't be sure of course, that those who say the Cold War was faked are picturing a sort of 1984 Oceana vs. Eurasia vs. Eastasia conflict. That is, that there was real fighting going on with real weapons (and real people dying) but that none of the sides was really trying to win - that they were just exploiting the conflict to give each of their populations a target to hate and use up funds that would have otherwise gone to improving quality of life.

'How shall a man judge what to do in such times?' 'As he ever has judged,' said Aragorn. 'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves, and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'