Elway: Peyton is two Super Bowls away from being the best ever

Posted by Michael David Smith on August 9, 2012, 1:27 PM EST

Reuters

John Elway thinks Peyton Manning has what it takes to go down in history as the greatest quarterback in the history of football. But to accomplish that, Elway needs to put the right team around Manning.

In Elway’s opinion, if Manning were to close out his career by winning two Super Bowls as the Broncos’ quarterback — the same way Elway closed out his own Hall of Fame career — that would be enough for Manning to be considered the best ever.

Of course, Elway knows that Manning can only do so much to ensure that he’ll win two Super Bowls. When Elway finally won his two Super Bowls in his 15th and 16th NFL seasons after falling short so many times earlier in his career, it wasn’t because Elway was better than he had been in his first 14 years in the league. It was because the Broncos built a better team around him. Likewise, if Manning wins two Super Bowls with the Broncos, it will be partially a testament to his own greatness as a quarterback, but also a testament to Elway’s work as an executive.

Manning has already won a record four regular-season MVP awards. If he were to come back from a year away and win a fifth MVP in Denver, he’d have a good case for being the best quarterback ever regardless of what happened in the playoffs. But Elway is correct that quarterbacks are remembered to such a large extent for their teams’ success or failure in the playoffs that Manning probably can’t go down in history as the best ever as long as he has only one Super Bowl ring. And he probably will go down in history as the best ever if he retires with three Super Bowl rings.

I am about as far from a PM fan as one can get but I don’t think it’s being hateful to say that the odds of his being on the winning side of 2 more SBs are long odds. And I don’t think even that would automatically make him the GOAT.

NoHomeTeam says:Aug 9, 2012 1:40 PM

If Peyton can pick up one more Lombardi, he’ll be the greatest Manning in history. Got a feeling that if he gets that one, he hangs it up before the confetti stops falling from the ceiling.

Bull Sh$%, he’s already the best ever. Like you said, football is the ultimate team game. Not his fault Big Ben tripped that DB after the Bettis fumble. Also, not his fault his defense sucked for 6 years of his prime.

If “Winning championships [is] the only way,” then there is no contest, and likely never will be, for the greatest pro QB in history. And don’t tell me that because 4 of those titles were in the AAFL before it merged with the NFL that it’s not the same – when the Browns came into the NFL, it was business as usual for Graham & Co. – 3 titles in 6 years.

Unitas and Montana, Brady and the Mannings – all great QBs – scramble for 2nd place, at best.

Terrell Davis carried Elway to two Super Bowl wins. Manning’s Colts teams were good enough to win Super Bowls – they just didn’t get it done. When they lost in the playoffs, the Colts were typically favored. Two more championships wont’ make Manning the best QB ever – we already know how good he’s been through most of his career – which is almost over now. Manning won’t suddenly get better now, and he didn’t spend his career playing on a bad team. The guy is near the top, but he has no claim to be obviously better than the rest.

chargerdillon says:Aug 9, 2012 1:44 PM

I’m 30, when I was young i saw Montana, Young, Marino, Elway, Kelly….lots of the greats

Lots of those greats minus Marino had talented teams around them.

I can only vouch for my lifetime but as far as i’ve seen there is no better QB to ever play the game than Peyton Manning.

Now that he has a legit defense, my money is on him to win it all this year. Keep in mind im a Charger fan and he’s now a division rival. My feelings don’t falter one bit, he’s still the best QB I’ve ever seen in my lifetime.

ahostiletakeover says:Aug 9, 2012 1:45 PM

“Elway needs to put the right team around Manning”

Not a Broncos fan, but I have always been a Peyton fan and that statement succinctly sums up the Broncos this season. The McDaniels era stunted that process so IMO the Broncos need another solid draft / free agency period to really get to where they need to be as “contenders.” Elway started the process last year, giving that defense a much needed boost where their only good players on that side before were Champ and Elvis. With Peyton playing at 100%, its always possible he can take them to another championship, I just don’t see it starting this season.

Has there ever been a more overrated QB in history? Elway was blessed with amazing ability but seriously, the guy’s numbers are pedestrian and it wasn’t until he had a stellar D and running game that he won a SB. Peyton is 10x the QB Elway was. No way Peyton wins another SB, aint gonna happen. Peyton may end up top 3 after all said and done but it would require a couple more SB. Marino, Brady, Montana are solid top threes right now.

Memo to the other 31 teams in this league: Just mail it in, guys n’ gals – “This one’s… for-John” has decided they’re gonna go ahead and win it all… twice. Maybe back to back. Think of all the time you’ll add to your players’ careers if you just take the next 2 years off!

With all the coverage this “2012-2013 Super Bowl(S)” winner is getting, I’m sure opposing defenses will be thinking nothing but positive, encouraging thoughts regarding Peyton Manning, encouraged by the opportunity to help see him fulfill John Elway’s vision.

1nationraidernation says:Aug 9, 2012 1:47 PM

well i guess we all know now that Elway will never think Manning is the greatest ever. What’s even funnier is Elway is trying to make the comparison as the greatest ever to what he did….sorry John, you are not even in the top 10.

Since he won’t be winning two more Super Bowls, he will retire as NOT the best ever. To be honest, he didn’t play all that well in the Super Bowl that the Colts won and gave another one away. Brady is more likely to get another than Manning is.

jbl429 says:Aug 9, 2012 1:49 PM

And Brady is one away. I like Peyton more than Brady, but that was just a stupid statement by Elway.

Manning had great teams in Indy at a time when the NFC had nothing. He had his chance to win a few… the Patriots, Steelers and SD stood in his way and he didn’t come through. I don’t see him winning two more in Denver.

Not to mention, Montana will still have 4 even if Peyton got two more, and he’s the guy that needs to be passed to be considered the greatest ever.

excuse me but did I miss something here. I thought he had a hell of a team in Indy in 05, and 03 and the defense back then wasnt too bad neither, but he still couldnt get it done. and while Im at it if anyone else besides Grossman was the bears quarterback in 06 he wouldnt have won that ring neither. bottom line all Peyton is a great fantasy quarterback not a championship quarterback.

toegoat says:Aug 9, 2012 2:00 PM

If Jamarcus Russell wins two more rings, he will be the best “bust” of all time.

Say what you will about his mind and ability as a QB, but he had Hall of Fame caliber players helping most of the way and he played in doors.
Brady had Reche Caldwell, JR Redmond, Troy Brown, David Patten, Antowain Smith, Branch etc and played outside his whole career.

Elway: great QB. Horribly inept at the public facing comments and perception game.
Dufus

I’m with everyone else on Montana being the best ever. Watched him every chanch I had and I have never been a Niners or Chiefs fan.

govtminion says:Aug 9, 2012 2:04 PM

Even speaking as a Broncos fan, but… John, shut the hell up, please? Manning just finished saying a while back that he hates when his teammates talk about how great he’s doing- then you come out talking about Super Bowls?

Tell you what. You want one that bad? Find someone to catch a football from your new QB, and we’ll see if that helps a bit. Because right now you’ve got a pretty ‘eh’ receiving corps, to put it nicely.

puckthefatriots says:Aug 9, 2012 2:06 PM

Elway and Brady are the two best examples as to why SuperBowl rings are not indicative of how great you were…Both had great TEAMS around them when they won Superbowls yet niether could win one in their prime…Teams, not induviduals, win Superbowls…Induviduals win MVP trophies…Oh, by the way, Peyton has 4.

The fact that he made a roster with 2-14 level talent a perenial super bowl threat says a lot.

His D gave up almost 22 ppg in playoffs while his bro Eli’s D gives up like 17 ppg. When Brady was winning SB’s the Pats were holding teams to 16 ppg. This is a team game. Qbs get too much credit and blame for playoff wins or losses

derklempner says:Aug 9, 2012 2:10 PM

So let me get this straight: Elway thinks Manning could be the best quarterback ever if Manning has the right team around him to win two more championships in the ultimate TEAM game?

When will people stop putting so much emphasis on winning championships as being the defining characteristic of a great individual player in pro football? One player does not win a championship; the team wins it with the help from all the players involved.

I appreciate all the fans of other teams pointing out that Joe Montana is the best ever; it doesn’t quite sound the same coming from a 9er fan.

I’ve seen Manning, and Elway for that matter, choke in too many clutch moments to give one of those guys the “best ever” title, even if Manning wins 2 more. Some players destroy stats and record books, but Montana was far more clutch and won more than those guys. When the game was on the line, Montana delivered way more often than not, when things seemed bleak and desperate he was calm and cool and made the throws that wins games, big time games.

Eli Manning is more clutch than Peyton. Peyton would have been garbage (See Pats v. Colts early to mid 2000’s) against a D that sacked him 6 times in a game, while Eli stood in there and made throws against my 9ers after being sacked 6 times! Peyton freaks after a few sacks, his demeanor changes, while Eli stays calm. So he needs to worry about being the best in his family before he can be the best ever…not that Peyton said this, but you know what I mean.

The guy that embarrassed you, 55-10, and Marino, 38-16, wants a word. Without two work stoppages, a broken back, and and all the receiver contact allowed during that time, the greatest ever would likely have had two more on top of the four he earned.

This isn’t even debatable: greatness is defined by so much more than piling stats in meaningless games.

He has the mind like a coach as Unitas did and is playing against more talented and smarter (better informed) talent than Montana or Marino.

————–
As Belichick said… “Stats are for losers, final scores are for winners”.

Other stats do matter, but “wins” is what matters the most. That’s the entire goal of the sport. Peyton does have plenty of wins, but 1 Superbowl and 2 AFC Championships are not enough to be considered the greatest ever.

nathanjreese says:Aug 9, 2012 2:15 PM

He already is the best ever. The Colts showed last year just how overrated the talent around him was, and that’s basically the same team he nearly went undefeated with a few years ago.

Simple-minded people will point to whichever QB has the most rings, but Peyton never had a good D in Indy and he’s responsible for a lot of offensive players getting paid big money.

Joe Montana is the best ever. Manning, though very, very good in the regular season, has a .500 record in the playoffs and had a marginal game vs. Chicago and Rex Grossman in the Super Bowl that he won. Plus in the SB that he won their running game tore it up – almost 200 yards rushing. Vs. the Saints, Manning played marginal, at best, and threw the clinching INT returned for a Saints’ TD to lose the game. Manning is a HOFer, but not close to the best ever in clutch situations.

Championships don’t necessarily make you the best. It’s still a team game. Dan Marino was the best. And he never had a running game and rarely had a decent defense. If he had traded places with Joe Montana, he would have had to put his rings on both hands.

Manning WAS a great quarterback. His neck leaves him one hit away from retirement.

handsofsweed says:Aug 9, 2012 2:30 PM

Listen up, cupcake:

AAFC titles are indeed championships. But they are not, weren’t and never will be World Championships. Now, that doesn’t mean Otto wasn’t a stone-cold killer and legend. He was all of that, no doubt. He was also a 3-time World Champ. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now, I will concede this: There’s a good chance those 4 AAFC title teams from 1946-49, HAD THEY BEEN IN THE NFL, win a World Title or two. But they wouldn’t have beaten BOTH of those Van Buren Eagles teams OR the 1946 Monsters of the Midway Halas-led Bears team. I do think they would have whipped the 1947 Cardinals, though.

The last time the Denver Broncos got a QB who was drafted first overall from the Colts the Broncos won the Superbowl in his 14 Pro Season….This year is Payton Mannings 14 Pro Season so a Superbowl win is pretty well guaranteed.🙂

The best QB I have ever seen play the game is Joe Montana. He was so clutch!! He really was and if Steve Young wouldn’t have put heat on the 49ers, Joe Montana could have had a few more rings!!

handsofsweed says:Aug 9, 2012 2:35 PM

At any rate, cupcake, your assumption is every bit as stupid as the one that some of my fellow Steeler fans hold. You know, the one where no World Titles before SB I count? Yeah, that’s stupid and disrespectful to our own 6 World Titles, so make sure you avoid calling me a Steeler homer.

Does this mean the Broncos are going to cheat the salary cap again? Funny how the Pats and Saints are called cheaters all the time but everyone forgets the Broncos salary cap debacle.

hack19 says:Aug 9, 2012 2:49 PM

How can Elway predict the future? Ever??Anybody that makes a subjective comment and classifies it as “without a doubt” is overcompensating. Elway gets his opinion. Yeah!!!But it’s just that, an opinion & everybody has one. Unfortunately, Elway sometimes acts likes something that everybody also has.

If championships are considered the bell cow standard for great QBs, why is Otto Graham almost never mentioned in the conversations of greatest QBs?

Graham played 10 seasons, never missed a game, still holds the yards per pass attempt record, led his team to the 1st perfect season in pro football history, played in the championship game EVERY year he played (10 straight) and won SEVEN championships.

Granted, different eras have different rules and tendencies. Montana was great, Elway and Marino were great too. Brees, Manning(s) and Brady are great as well. It is all subjective and everybody has their own criteria. I’m just saying that if championships are the standard then this guy ought to be mentioned or the standard is hypocritical

Alot of these comments are over looking something. Peyton has already a better defense then any defense he had in Indy. Peyton has never had two good corners, this defense will stop people more and if anyone wants to point at the New England playoff game as reference last year, it would of helped if the offense could have moved the ball…

Another thing, I agree with the two more super bowls, but I also agree with other comments on here that its an up hill climb with this team. But I truely think this Denver team is well balanced and if you look at the last 5 Super Bowl teams all them had great balance going into the playoffs, especially Steelers once, Giants twice and Packers once, the Saints had atleast a decent running game and obviously were trying to take people out, on defense lol. Pass happy, average to suck defenses wins games, but more balanced teams good all the way around WINS superbowls

patriots87 says:
Aug 9, 2012 4:02 PM
And Brady is only one ring away from being the best ever… and thats a fact, not an opinion.
———
All of this is opinion anyway, right?
However, why would Brady be considered the best ever if he wins one more? He’d have the same number of superbowls as Montana and Bradshaw.

So, he gets credit for going there and losing two (albeit close ones)?

Wow, 80+ comments, 90% broncos/PM haters, Your teams must not have anything good for them so you have to post your negatives on the broncos blog. It would just make you feel sick to your stomach if the broncos went on and won 2 superbowls with PM and prove you nay-sayers wrong. In case you’ve forgotten, this is the NFL, not the WWE, anything can happen. Packers went 15-1, got knocked out first game in playoffs, PATs went 18-0 before losing the superbowl against the 10-6 giants. The broncos last year under tebow played against two starting QBs, Rivers and Sanchez during 8 game winning streak, and backup RBs. The funny part is majority of the starters injuries occurred a week prior to the broncos playing them, you can’t deny tebow would have lost those games if Cutler, Forte, AP, etc. Played.

History has done a grave disservice to the legacy of Starr, the 17th-round draft pick out of pre-Bear Bryant Alabama who turned into the most clutch and most cruelly efficient passing assassin of his or any other generation.

History remembers Starr’s legendary coach, and the bevy of Hall of Fame talent that surrounded him. It forgets that Starr was Lombardi’s second in command, a tremendous big-game performer, and that the Packers of the 1960s would have been just another team without the prolific Starr as their beloved on-field leader. Instead, they won five NFL championships, with Starr at the helm of every single one of those title teams, while he crafted an NFL-record 9-1 postseason mark. The rings say it all: Starr is the only quarterback in history who has one for every finger on his throwing hand.

And even if you listen to teammates today, they make it pretty clear that they would have fallen on a grenade for Starr. Leadership is an elemental piece of quarterbacking – probably more important than gaudy passing stats. And that love his teammates had for their field general is an incredible sign of his leadership.

But forget, for a moment, the team accomplishments and the “intangibles” of leadership.

If you want to talk passing and statistics, we’ll put Starr up against anybody. Anybody.

He led the NFL in passer rating five times. Johnny Unitas led the league in passer rating just twice. Ditto Joe Montana. Only Steve Young surpassed Starr’s mark (six).

And, lest we forget, Starr was the best postseason passer in NFL history, as evidenced by his record 104.8 playoff passer rating and 1.41 percent interception rate, also a postseason record (CHFF readers are well aware of the importance of not throwing picks in the playoffs). Starr played in an era when 80 was a decent passer rating. Yet he still performed more efficiently in the playoffs than folks such as Montana, Brady, Manning, Marino, Young and … well, anybody, ever.

There’s a cause and effect here, folks: NFL’s greatest dynasty, only winners of three-straight title games, and a record 9-1 postseason mark. And there, underlying it all, is Starr with his postseason passing records. The two are intricately intertwined.

History also remembers Starr’s Packers as a great running team, and that’s certainly true of their earlier years. But the truth is that they typically passed the ball more effectively than they ran it, especially during their run of three straight, when they were a below-average running team.

In their 1965 championship season, the Packers were 11th in the 14-team league with an average of 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. They were second in the league, with an average of 8.2 yards per passing attempt.

In their 1966 championship season, the Packers were 14th in the 15-team league, with an average of 3.5 yards per rushing attempt. They were first in the league, with an average of 8.9 yards per passing attempt.

In their 1967 championship season, the Packers were 4th in the 16-team league, with an average of 4.0 yards per rushing attempt. They were first in the league, with an average of 8.3 yards per passing attempt (Starr himself that season averaged 8.7 YPA).

Starr averaged a remarkable 7.85 YPA over the course of his entire career, the 8th-best mark in history, and better than that of a slate of quarterbacks who are generally regarded as the best passers in history, including Dan Marino (7.37), Joe Montana (7.52), Roger Staubach (7.67), Dan Fouts (7.68), Sonny Jurgensen (7.56), Fran Tarkenton (7.27), Y.A. Tittle (7.52), Terry Bradshaw (7.17) and Joe Namath (7.35).

Six times in the 1960s, Starr surpassed 8.2 YPA for a season. To put that into context, Peyton Manning has surpassed 8.2 YPA just twice in his brilliant 10-year career.

And, if you want drama, don’t forget that Starr scored the winning TD in the Ice Bowl, probably the most famous game in NFL history. Sure, Montana led his team 92 yards for the game-winning score in Super Bowl XXIII. But he did it on a 68-degree night in Miami. Turn down the thermostat by 86 degrees (it was 18-below in the fourth quarter of the Ice Bowl) and you begin to approximate the conditions under which the greatest quarterback in NFL history operated during his greatest moment in the sport’s greatest game.

And Starr was brilliant on that drive, in the decisive moments of the sport’s most famous game: he completed 5 of 5 passes in ball-busting cold, and then called a run play for the winning score. But instead of handing it off, he decided in his mind, without telling his teammates, that he was going to punch it in himself. It was only fitting: the game’s greatest signal-caller taking matters into his own hands in the sport’s signature moment.

To cap his career achievements, Starr earned MVP honors in the first two Super Bowls after shredding the best the AFL could throw his way for 452 yards on 47 passing attempts (9.6 YPA). Among those victims were the 1967 Raiders, perhaps the AFL’s greatest single team. He posted a combined 106.0 passer rating in those two games. If you think it was no small feat to beat up on “upstart” AFL teams, just look at how NFL quarterbacks fared in Super Bowls III and IV. (Here’s a hint: they were embarrassed.)

When it comes to a combination of leadership, victories, big-game performances and statistical supremacy nobody – NOBODY – put together a more total package than Bart Starr, the greatest quarterback in NFL history.

When it comes to a combination of leadership, victories, big-game performances and statistical supremacy nobody – NOBODY – put together a more total package than Bart Starr, the greatest quarterback in NFL history.

There’s a cause and effect here, folks: NFL’s greatest dynasty, only winners of three-straight title games, and a record 9-1 postseason mark. And there, underlying it all, is Starr with his postseason passing records. The two are intricately intertwined.
Come on Bozo’s,argue with the COLD HARD FACTS

And, if you want drama, don’t forget that Starr scored the winning TD in the Ice Bowl, probably the most famous game in NFL history. Sure, Montana led his team 92 yards for the game-winning score in Super Bowl XXIII. But he did it on a 68-degree night in Miami. Turn down the thermostat by 86 degrees (it was 18-below in the fourth quarter of the Ice Bowl) and you begin to approximate the conditions under which the greatest quarterback in NFL history operated during his greatest moment in the sport’s greatest game.

With under 2 minutes to go in the 1989 Super Bowl the Cincinnati Bengals scored and went ahead of the 49ers.

As the story goes, the offense was standing on the sidelines and someone said “we’ve just won the SuperBowl”.

Chris Collinsworth, at the time the WR for the Bengals said “don’t be so sure – have you seen who is playing quarterback for the 49ers?”

bobzilla1001 says:Aug 11, 2012 1:55 AM

Three words for Mr. Elway: TERRY PAXTON BRADSHAW.
Bradshaw was the best-ever big-game quarterback of the Super Bowl era. He threw fourth-quarter TD passes in each of the four Super Bowls he played, and he threw four TD passes in 35-31 fight-to-the-finish in Super Bowl 13 against the defending Super Bowl champion Cowboys.
Bradshaw is in the Hall for one reason and one reason only: The bigger the game, the better he played…

Too many hits to the head for Elway… He somehow thinks three is bigger than four. Two more for Eli, and he might be in the conversation with Montana and Bradshaw. Lets set the bar at 5, wich is more than 4 or 3

Manning will NEVER be close to being the best ever….chokes in the clutch…over-rated.

But…he does have the chance to prove everyone wrong. If he takes the Broncos to a SB win, he has proven the doubters…if not, he will always be remembered as good…but not great….he has his chance…let’s see if he can get it done with another team…

The cold hard facts about Manning are Black and white….chokes in the clutch and always has…he has never been the best WHILE he has played. Given that logic, he cannot possibly be the best ever…nuff said. He is a good QB who has been given everything he has ever wanted around him and still couldnt get it done. The one year he DID, it was riding the coat-tails of his defense. If not for his defense rising up and stuffing the Ravens in the playoffs…Manning would have NO SBs.and an even MORE mediocre playoff record than he has (below 500).and would be unanimously heralded as very good (flawed) QB…which he is!

John Unitas is still hands down the best. Peyton is probably around 5 or 6 on the list.

The Prophet says:Aug 14, 2012 1:24 AM

What a completely unfair statement to make. So how did he come up with “2” as the magic number? Why because he won 2 in Denver maybe? And to also make that statement when it would be next to impossible for Peyton to win 2 in Denver. The guy might not even play 2 years. And by saying that, he’s also making it clear that Peyton is NOT the greatest of all time, and to say “two Super Bowls away” is saying he’s not even close, considering there are at least 10 QB’s if you have them TWO rings they’d be the greatest. Elway is still the biggest jerk in NFL history.

commonsensedude says:Aug 14, 2012 11:06 AM

John Elway was only two Super Bowls from having a 0-5 record in Super Bowl Games. Would that have made him the worst ever? Of course not. Football is a team game and therefore the number of NFL Championships should not be the criteria for determining who is the “best ever.”

greenandgoldgirl says:Aug 15, 2012 1:33 PM

You are all prisoners of the moment. Greatest QB in NFL history is Bart Starr. Peyton is going to need to win 5 more championships if he wants to even be mentioned in the same conversation as Bart Starr. Starr is the ONLY QB to win 5 championships. If winning championships is the barometer then Starr is the greatest ever and will be until someone wins 4 in a row and 6 total.

bamboozle99 says:Aug 15, 2012 7:31 PM

If you’re gonna name someone “best ever”, make sure he’s good in the clutch. I don’t think Peyton has proved that he is, yet.

ghjjf says:Aug 15, 2012 11:30 PM

If you’re going by championships the best ever has to be Otto Graham, 10 straight championship appearances and won 7 of them. Manning has only been to 2, and the only one he won was because Rex Grossman was the QB for the other team.

To veryone who is saying he had a super star supporting cast already present in Indo, how did HArrison do the 2 years before they drafted Manning? And how about Reggie Wayne without Peyton? He made those guys the super stars they are/were.