i think finley had a down year and injuries can be partially attributed to that but maybe not so much with the drops specifically. i think finley and pett overall end up being ranked pretty equally. i wouldnt strongly favor one over the other. i wasnt all that impressed with finley even before his down 2011 but pettigrew to me has a ways to go before id call him elite. as for the backlash on wjb - he makes a good point with how the players are used. does anyone here really think that if the lions had finley they would use him the same as pett? im pretty sure linehan would send him vertical over the middle a little more and use less of the curl, short slants and quick outs they throw to pett

February 28th, 2012, 10:11 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10398Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Finley Signed

The Legend wrote:

i think finley had a down year and injuries can be partially attributed to that but maybe not so much with the drops specifically. i think finley and pett overall end up being ranked pretty equally. i wouldnt strongly favor one over the other. i wasnt all that impressed with finley even before his down 2011 but pettigrew to me has a ways to go before id call him elite. as for the backlash on wjb - he makes a good point with how the players are used. does anyone here really think that if the lions had finley they would use him the same as pett? im pretty sure linehan would send him vertical over the middle a little more and use less of the curl, short slants and quick outs they throw to pett

That doesn't make Finley necessarily better than Pettigrew, just a different kind of player. If that is the case, if having a TE who can go vertically is the measure of his being superior, than Scheffler is a better TE than Pettigrew, correct? Sorry, but simply because Pettigrew is used differently doesn't mean it's due to his "inadequacies". Linehan has stated time and again that he wanted a TE in his offense that can block and catch the ball (a full time TE), not necessarily a vertical threat who could be split out if needed. That's what he wants from his second TE, hence the trade that brought us Scheffler. And I never said Pettigrew was an "elite" receiver. I simply said that he's been productive as a player, and as such I don't have an issue with the team taking him in the first round. Among the top twenty picks in that draft, he's been one of the best players to come out of it. The Lions could have done a LOT worse.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

February 28th, 2012, 11:18 pm

njroar

QB Coach

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 3220

Re: Finley Signed

Profootballfocus is great. Why didn't you use 2011 stats though?

You said he's in the bottom half, yet Pett was actually #10 in the top 10 in terms of drop % this year with only 6 drops and 6.74%. Finley had a 17.71% drop rate in 2011 when he did play.

Finley also had a 1.53 yard per route run average, Pett had a 1.37 average. Only Graham and Gronk had over 2 yprr average.

As for deep routes. You're right, Finley is used more. 5 receptions, 2 drops and 0 TD's over 20 yards.He was targeted 15 times. Pett had 2 receptions and 1 TD out of 5 targets. Only Graham broke double digits in receptions over 20 yards.

Pett also has a 97.1 pass blocking efficiency with only giving up 1 sack and 1 hit. He stayed in to pass block 16% of passing plays or 114 out of 678. Finley had a 98.0, but stayed in 6% or 37 plays out of 537 passing plays.

Pett played 95% of overall snaps, while Finley played 94% and surprisingly Detroit ran 1132 total snaps to GB's 883. Pett was involved in 1081 plays, while Finley was involved in 832. 200 plays is about 3 games worth of snaps.

When you look at those TE's involved in 75% of the snaps, or targets in each category:

Drop rate: Pett ranks #5 overall. Yards per Route run : Pett ranks #7 overall. Pass Blocking Efficiency: Ranks # 1Gronk, Gates and Jared Cook are only TE's that were top 75% in snaps from the slot. Graham is the only TE ranked at all over 75% of deep targets.

So he's in the top 10 in 3 of the 5 key categories for TE's with only slot routes (Sheffler or 3rd receiver used instead) and Deep routes being not ranked.

Pett is good but not great at many things, where some are great at only 1 thing. He was worth the 1st round pick because in pass blocking he's more efficient than a Gos is and in the passing game he's the safety valve. He doesn't take pressure off CJ in a deep passing role because that isn't what he's used for. He takes pressure off Stafford. That's his job. Defenses have to watch him every single play because they never know when he's going to block or go out. When you make a defense play with 10 players instead of 11, you already have an advantage. If he stays in to block, the defensive player already is slow to get to where the play is designed. If he does a delayed release, he's wide open.

You can take Finley, but then you lose pass blocking that would have to be sub in for Finley on 16% of the snaps. Pett's value isn't just in what he does. Its what you don't have to carry on the roster because he can fill multiple roles. Heller can fill in at FB because Pett handles the extra blocking role. The ability to have an extra roster space for something the team needs is invaluable.

February 28th, 2012, 11:33 pm

DJ-B

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pmPosts: 2563

Re: Finley Signed

Ring Ring.... Do you hear that....

It's njroar dropping some knowledge on you.

March 2nd, 2012, 11:14 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Finley Signed

njroar wrote:

Profootballfocus is great. Why didn't you use 2011 stats though?

You said he's in the bottom half, yet Pett was actually #10 in the top 10 in terms of drop % this year with only 6 drops and 6.74%. Finley had a 17.71% drop rate in 2011 when he did play.

Finley also had a 1.53 yard per route run average, Pett had a 1.37 average. Only Graham and Gronk had over 2 yprr average.

As for deep routes. You're right, Finley is used more. 5 receptions, 2 drops and 0 TD's over 20 yards.He was targeted 15 times. Pett had 2 receptions and 1 TD out of 5 targets. Only Graham broke double digits in receptions over 20 yards.

Pett also has a 97.1 pass blocking efficiency with only giving up 1 sack and 1 hit. He stayed in to pass block 16% of passing plays or 114 out of 678. Finley had a 98.0, but stayed in 6% or 37 plays out of 537 passing plays.

Pett played 95% of overall snaps, while Finley played 94% and surprisingly Detroit ran 1132 total snaps to GB's 883. Pett was involved in 1081 plays, while Finley was involved in 832. 200 plays is about 3 games worth of snaps.

When you look at those TE's involved in 75% of the snaps, or targets in each category:

Drop rate: Pett ranks #5 overall. Yards per Route run : Pett ranks #7 overall. Pass Blocking Efficiency: Ranks # 1Gronk, Gates and Jared Cook are only TE's that were top 75% in snaps from the slot. Graham is the only TE ranked at all over 75% of deep targets.

So he's in the top 10 in 3 of the 5 key categories for TE's with only slot routes (Sheffler or 3rd receiver used instead) and Deep routes being not ranked.

Pett is good but not great at many things, where some are great at only 1 thing. He was worth the 1st round pick because in pass blocking he's more efficient than a Gos is and in the passing game he's the safety valve. He doesn't take pressure off CJ in a deep passing role because that isn't what he's used for. He takes pressure off Stafford. That's his job. Defenses have to watch him every single play because they never know when he's going to block or go out. When you make a defense play with 10 players instead of 11, you already have an advantage. If he stays in to block, the defensive player already is slow to get to where the play is designed. If he does a delayed release, he's wide open.

You can take Finley, but then you lose pass blocking that would have to be sub in for Finley on 16% of the snaps. Pett's value isn't just in what he does. Its what you don't have to carry on the roster because he can fill multiple roles. Heller can fill in at FB because Pett handles the extra blocking role. The ability to have an extra roster space for something the team needs is invaluable.

I didn't use 2011 stats because they weren't available, not by googling "Pettigrew's Drops" anyhow.

You say potato, I say potaato... You say that the Pack doesn't keep Finely in to block on passing downs more often because he's not a great blocker. I say they don't do it more often because he's MORE effective out there running routes, and by having him out there running routes as effectively as he does other teams CAN'T blitz the Packers because Finely is a great outlet that is super reliable. Pett, eh... not so much!!! Teams alter their defensive schemes because of Finely. Do you really think teams alter their defense for Pett? I don't.

I don't know where you're going with this 200 more snaps nonsense. 3 games worth of snaps means nothing. The Packers offense is more efficient. Who's offense scored more? (the Packers) Which player was on the field for more TD's? (Finley) Which player was involved in more scoring drives? (the Packers) Your 200+ more snaps means nothing. They were fruitless, unnecessary snaps caused by our offense being inefficient, not being able to sustain drives, and not being able to score as often per drive than the Pack. You really think that bodes well for Pett? You're fooling yousrelf.

If I "take Finely" I lose nothing. I don't need him pass blocking more often, but if I wanted him to, I think he could do it! Like I said, Finely's value lies more with him being out running routes against guys that flat out can't cover him, or filling holes vacated by blitzers for big gains.

March 5th, 2012, 4:33 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Finley Signed

DJ-B wrote:

Ring Ring.... Do you hear that....

It's njroar dropping some knowledge on you.

How's that "knowledge" working out now???

Like I said, Pett sucks.

November 23rd, 2012, 6:43 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3485Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Finley Signed

wjb21ndtown wrote:

DJ-B wrote:

Ring Ring.... Do you hear that....

It's njroar dropping some knowledge on you.

How's that "knowledge" working out now???

Like I said, Pett sucks.

Hate to say it, but I think you're right. Wouldnt say he "sucks", but he sure has been disappointing.