make moap changelog prepare also check the CHANGE_LOG_EMAIL_ADDRESS variable

implement searching for your project’s home page using Yahoo or Google

parse wiki attribute of a DOAP Project

Jan wants to do some GStreamer releases, so I think I’ll be working to add some features for that to moap this week.

As you may have noticed, moap now has a logo, and I like it a lot. I asked Christophe, Fluendo’s visual wizard, to create me a logo based on the hammer and sickle, in orange, Tango-style, and with Russian-looking letters. He gave me three choices, I picked one, he gave me another three refining my choice, I picked one, and then he gave me another three, and I picked one. I can’t believe how easy this process was compared to me trying to come up with something on my own. I should make T-shirts with this logo.

@sven: the image is communist, not Soviet. Note that the Soviet flag had a pentagram as well. It is a small but important distinction The color has also been changed from yellow to orange, and the logo itself more cartoony. You came close to invoking Godwin’s law there, and I don’t think the comparison holds.

In the end, it is just an adaptation of a logo, with some rationale in the MOAP FAQ. I do not find the symbol or my icon “funny”, I just like the style of the logo.

And as human beings, we are both part of a population that has killed, and is still killing, millions of people. Using or not using an icon for a project does not change that.

@bob: no, that’s not what I said. You’re inferring. To me, there is a world of difference between “the swastika” and any other icon. In fact, there is a world of difference between “all things nazi” and “all other things”. The mere existence of Godwin’s law shows how much of a non sequitur “all things nazi” and “swastikas” are. So please let’s keep those out of this discussion.

That said – yes, I think it is quite a stretch to immediately think of “killing millions of people” when seeing this logo. The first thing I think of when I see an Eagle, a dollar or an American flag is not “think of all the people this nation killed”. The first thing I think of when I see my home country’s flag is not “think of all the Africans this country abused”.

While I am by no means communist, I’d like to remind people that the hammer and sickle are a communist symbol, and blaming communism in general for the crimes commited by a nation claiming to be communist make no sense. You might as well blame me for it because just like Soviets, I am human.

there is not a world of difference between the crimes of the nazis and the soviets. just as the hammer and sickle was a communist symbol that was coopted by the soviets, the swastika (i believe) is from some eastern religion and was only later taken to by the symbol of the nazis. so i really don’t see much of a difference between the two symbols.

I’d personally be insulted if someone would use a logo with stars and stripes, because it looks like the american flag, and the american state has killed hundreds of thousands of people all over the world. And almost any european country’s flag would also insult me, as those countries have killed millions of people during colonialism. Most of those countries still have the same flags, and I find them insulting.

There’s also some pretty fundamental differences between the ideologies called “nazism” and “communism”. I personally will not stop supporting some of the ideas of Marx, because of what happened in the Soviet union. Although the soviet union had some of the visual identity of a communist state, it barely had anything to do with having the working class rule the country.

Hammer is a symbol of work. The sickle is a symbol of (agricultural) work. Together they are a symbol of work. If some totalitarian state killed millions of people and they had a peace sign or a white dove as their logo, I would not stop using the peace sign or the white dove as symbols for peace.

And regarding swastikas, it is propably the most unfortunate symbol of all times. Please go see the Hindu- and other-swastikas on wikipedia. They are not insulting – are they?

dear thomas,
godwin’s law does not save you because nazi and soviet regimes are almost similar. you say it is “cartoony”. fine, that is perfectly same what i said: you consider a soviet (or communist) symbol funny.

@sven:
1) godwin’s law is about Nazis or Hitler, not about communism. If I needed saving then Godwin’s law would do it in this case. By the way, Godwin says “thanks” for proving him right. Please drop future references to nazism and make your point relevant without it.

2) cartoony does not imply funny. Cases in point: A scanner darkly, or the Transformers series, just to name a few.

Thomas: For lot of people in this world Soviet Union was and still is equal to Hitler’s Germany, no more or less. And yes, they used this Communism logo, so like it or not, they “connect” it in their minds with Soviet Union and it’s bloody regime. Let me remind you that Soviet Union was created to “build Communism” in the first place. I know, it is not fair, but that is a life – we build associations without thinking much about them. For example, “Swastika” was very glorious and beautiful symbol with significant roots in Indo-European race. In result, my nation – Latvians – has “swastikas” all over the place in their ancient patterns (dress, pottery). But we can’t go around in dress having such patterns because without doubt many people will connect it with Nazi.

Problem is also with Communism too, because Marx already said that it will be big struggle – with many victims – until such Communism regime would be found. So in fact, in it’s basis, it is violent.

In resume, program is sweet, logo almost hits the target, but it’s association with regime almost ruins everything good/funny about it.

Thomas, I think I can safely assume, that you grew up on the other side of the iron curtain. That’s why there is this disconnect for you and you can talk about the origins of this sign or whatever.. But the reality is, that for people from the former soviet union (and that is a _lot_ of people) this simbol has _very_ powerful, negative associations and for them it is not much different than the swastika. It really doesn’t matter if you use it in different color or with or without the pentagram or how it was used before, the emotions associated with it are still there. Obviously, you can do whatever you want, but do you really want to your projects logo to be something that makes the people who really did live under this brutal regime to think about their parents and grandparents who died in soviet concentration camps in Siberia ?

i am sad it turned into a flame war, that was not my intention. i’ll try to make myself clear as politely as i can.

there were two violent and extremely aggressive regimes in 20th century europe. they were somewhat (but only somewhat) different in their ideology, but extremely similar in real world. from suppression of free speech to the death camps. in short – search for the word “totalitarianism”.

one of these regimes is now a taboo in western society. in some countries, it is even forbidden to use their symbols as it is considered an insult to people who suffered from that regime. one would never consider using their (even modified) symbols for a logo of a software project. the other regime, while similar in all aspects imaginable, has not met deserved criticism. on the contrary – it’s symbols are being used as souvenirs etc.

but in essence they both symbolise violent death of millions of people.

Go ahead Thomas, censor all the posts that don’t fall in the party line, like the one I posted criticizing your icon choice. Typical communist behavior, I’d say: pretend to be for free speech, censor anything different from their own propaganda as soon as they have the power to do so.

@joe_user: Your previous post was decidedly more agressive than all the others. That, and the fact that you don’t even leave a valid email address to talk to you, made me choose not to approve it. I think that is completely fair. It is amusing that you use the phrase “the party line”. I have never pretended to be for free speech. There is no propaganda of any kind on this site. You seem a lot more communist than me from where I am standing.

I’m taking everyone else’s comments into consideration, but yours are just hateful without any actual content.

So how can other readers judge if it was “aggressive” (could be) or “hateful” (you must be smoking something bad) if you censor it? Was it so difficult to understand that “party line” was a provocation, and not to be taken literally? I can see, as any other one can barring censorship, that this is not a communist propaganda site, ever heard about sarcasm? It seems to me you chose the easy way of censorship instead of answering my critic, I’m not buying the “no actual content” excuse.

Communism is a crime.

PS Last thing I’m going to do is leave my email address to someone who’s not for free speech, when you’ll advance in civility we’ll see. But you’ll have to try hard.

@joe_user: I don’t think it matters whether others can judge the hatefulness of your post. That’s not what this site is about. Also I do not smoke, good or bad. It was not difficult to understand anything about your post since you write like a 3 year old who’s had his lollipop taken away. Also, this site is not a forum for you to provocate on. I have heard about sarcasm, and I’ve even seen my mother be better at it than you. Hint: if your sarcasm is coupled with frothing at the mouth like in your case then it’s probably escalated to cynicism.

I never pretended I wasn’t for free speech either, I just did not express any opinion on it. If you must know, I am largely in favor of free speech, I think people use the term way too lightly (you make a fine example), and I think the nuances of any opinion on free speech are done a disservice by the use of those two words only, as if everyone would understand them the same way. As an example of an important nuance: I think free speech ends, like any other liberty, where it infringes on someone else’s liberty. Hint: I don’t think negationists can hide behind free speech.

As to me taking away your right to free speech, boo hoo. You are entitled to all the free speech you want wherever you want on the internet. Why not post your invective on your own site then link to this post ? If you try it on my site I have every right to disallow your posts, edit them, change your email to “iamabig@reta.rd”, or do whatever else I see fit. Instead I either drop your post completely (33%) or let it appear on this site as is (67%) – even if it includes the laughable slogan “Communism is a crime” in every single post.

I can live with you thinking I’m uncivil, have no desire to have your actual email address, and doubt I will try hard to advance in civility according to your terms.

BTW, this is the last bit of energy I will expend on you since it’s quite obvious that you’re trolling, as opposed to the other people who have commented.

@everyone else: I’m thinking about what you are saying and discussing it with some people, so IÎ…m not taking it lightly. If anyone has ideas on how to change the logo, feel free to offer.

I’ll go first – would it be less offensive if I replaced the hammer with a keyboard and the sickle with a computer mouse, with the mouse cord curved the same way ?

I don’t really have a particular interest in this project, I just clicked the planet link to see if my suspicions were true: someone was bound to come across moaning about how abusive the soviet regime was and how horrible using inonography similar to that adopted by the regime is.

Anyway, someone needs to take classes in both subjects here, and it’s not the owner of this blog.