Superman also did stuff like that too, yet he isn't constantly mistaken for being Asian because of his features until this day, also Namor's features are remarked on in later day comics as well. Defenders #1 (1975)

Namor didn't start out as war time propaganda but was drawn with features that were not typical of the other heroes around.

12-08-2019, 12:40 AM

Electricmastro

[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4723778]Superman also did stuff like that too, yet he isn't constantly mistaken for being Asian because of his features until this day, also Namor's features are remarked on in later day comics as well. Defenders #1 (1975)

Namor didn't start out as war time propaganda but was drawn with features that were not typical of the other heroes around.[/QUOTE]

I personally still don't really buy it, but fair enough point of view nonetheless of course.

12-08-2019, 01:25 AM

Doombot

I recently rediscovered a Namor story I had forgot existed, a two issue story in the short lived Man-Thing series from the 90s. Anyone read this? It has some really fun scenes of ancient Atlantis, the fabled lost "City of the Golden Gate" which was the greatest city of pre-cataclysm Atlantis. While in the city which is in the deep past, Namor encounters Cleito, the mother goddess of Atlantis and the wife of Neptune. Namor weeps as he witnesses first hand the fate of the great city and of Atlantis. He even meets Howard the Duck lol

[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4723778]Superman also did stuff like that too, yet he isn't constantly mistaken for being Asian because of his features until this day, also Namor's features are remarked on in later day comics as well. Defenders #1 (1975)

Namor didn't start out as war time propaganda but was drawn with features that were not typical of the other heroes around.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say he is constantly mistaken for an asian. Only a couple of times if not more in what? 8 decades of publication? And the golden age example like you said even Superman would do stuff like that. The slanted eyes description means nothing because there are people of all races with slanted eyes, not only oriental.

This from an asian youtuber: Asian Eyes' Are More Common Than You Think

[QUOTE=Doombot;4723799]I recently rediscovered a Namor story I had forgot existed, a two issue story in the short lived Man-Thing series from the 90s. Anyone read this? It has some really fun scenes of ancient Atlantis, the fabled lost "City of the Golden Gate" which was the greatest city of pre-cataclysm Atlantis. While in the city which is in the deep past, Namor encounters [B]Cleito, the mother goddess of Atlantis and the wife of Neptune[/B]. Namor weeps as he witnesses first hand the fate of the great city and of Atlantis. He even meets Howard the Duck lol

The Atlanteans are a worshipers of King Neptune, the king of the sea, that right there says Roman/Greek culture. The asian culture never worshiped Nepture. I recently bought one of these comics and the art is great! I love how he draws Namor and all the details in those pages.

Just to be clear, I'm not opposing an oriental/asian actor for the role, maybe Daniel Henney or another asian actor will be cast and he will be a great Namor. If it was me I would go opposite of what DC did with Momoa and have a white guy like Henry Cavill play Namor.

12-08-2019, 02:13 PM

ImperiusWrecked

[QUOTE=Doombot;4723799]I recently rediscovered a Namor story I had forgot existed, a two issue story in the short lived Man-Thing series from the 90s. Anyone read this? It has some really fun scenes of ancient Atlantis, the fabled lost "City of the Golden Gate" which was the greatest city of pre-cataclysm Atlantis. While in the city which is in the deep past, Namor encounters Cleito, the mother goddess of Atlantis and the wife of Neptune. Namor weeps as he witnesses first hand the fate of the great city and of Atlantis. He even meets Howard the Duck lol[/quote]

I love these two issues, I asked the writer on twitter once if he would ever consider writing more Namor and he gave a vague reply. We really need more world building about Atlantis like this.

[QUOTE=Thor-El;4723927]I wouldn't say he is constantly mistaken for an asian. Only a couple of times if not more in what? 8 decades of publication? And the golden age example like you said even Superman would do stuff like that. The slanted eyes description means nothing because there are people of all races with slanted eyes, not only oriental.

Just to be clear, I'm not opposing an oriental/asian actor for the role, maybe Daniel Henney or another asian actor will be cast and he will be a great Namor. If it was me I would go opposite of what DC did with Momoa and have a white guy like Henry Cavill play Namor.[/QUOTE]

Namor imo should be played by a Biracial actor, just like how Aquaman was. The reason I pointed out that Superman parallels is to say that unlike Superman, Namor has been shown with these features even years after and he [I]looked [/I]east asian and people have noticed. Benedict Wong, who plays Wong in Doctor Strange, spoke about it in an [URL="https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/doctor-strange/259734/doctor-strange-benedict-wong-on-updating-the-character"]article[/URL] briefly.

Also as I said, the Atlanteans in my opinion are a mix of fantasy, myths, Roman influence, and POC coded characters, there's more than a few references throughout the years that hint at this so it's not a one off thing that people have latched onto. Aquaman was never anything but a white guy yet Momoa played him and everyone loved it, and it made a lot of money, and no one was trying prove that it wasn't comic accurate. If Marvel does Namor well, then he could be bigger than Aquaman.

I mean, I get it, but I'm not sure why one has to read into an Asian background with Namor, whose background is more complex than the average person.

Let's see, there's Shang-Chi, Lei Ling, Iso, Sunfire, Surge, Armor, Karma, and many other Asian heroes that can be incorporated in the MCU. People can read Namor being Asian all they want, but at the same time, I don't think there's anything wrong with having him identified, if necessary to simplify it, as "an Atlantean from Atlantis with an Atlantean background." Know what I'm saying?

12-08-2019, 03:11 PM

ImperiusWrecked

[QUOTE=Electricmastro;4724426]I mean, I get it, but I'm not sure why one has to read into an Asian background with Namor, whose background is more complex than the average person.

Let's see, there's Shang-Chi, Lei Ling, Iso, Sunfire, Surge, Armor, Karma, and many other Asian heroes that can be incorporated in the MCU. People can read Namor being Asian all they want, but at the same time, I don't think there's anything wrong with having him identified, if necessary to simplify it, as "an Atlantean from Atlantis with an Atlantean background." Know what I'm saying?[/QUOTE]

I never said Namor had to ONLY be Asian, I'm merely saying that if Namor was played by an POC actor then it's not wrong, it does mesh with some aspects of the character's history unlike all the people who always claim Namor is white and should only be white, yet were silent about Momoa being Aquaman. As for the time of this article there was no Asian heroes in a lead role in the MCU. It won't matter what I say anyways because it's up to Marvel to decide the actor, and him being Atlantean is far more important than the people who keep pointing at Leonard and saying, Namor should be white because his dad is white, they ignore the Atlantean side where he could be literally any mix of races as is shown in the comics.

12-08-2019, 03:26 PM

Electricmastro

[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4724476]I never said Namor had to ONLY be Asian, I'm merely saying that if Namor was played by an POC actor then it's not wrong, it does mesh with some aspects of the character's history unlike all the people who always claim Namor is white and should only be white, yet were silent about Momoa being Aquaman. As for the time of this article there was no Asian heroes in a lead role in the MCU. It won't matter what I say anyways because it's up to Marvel to decide the actor, and him being Atlantean is far more important than the people who keep pointing at Leonard and saying, Namor should be white because his dad is white, they ignore the Atlantean side where he could be literally any mix of races as is shown in the comics.[/QUOTE]

I never meant to accuse anyone of saying Namor should only be white or only Asian or only whatever either. Just calm down buddy.

12-08-2019, 03:48 PM

Doombot

Everyone is calm, lets not turn this into the typical Twitter mudslinging fest! Namor and his ethnicity and also that of the Atlanteans is an interesting topic to talk about, at least in my opinion, and I think we can do it without letting it slide into the nasty territory.

12-08-2019, 04:01 PM

ImperiusWrecked

[QUOTE=Electricmastro;4724502]I never meant to accuse anyone of saying Namor should only be white or only Asian or only whatever either. Just calm down buddy.[/QUOTE]

Dude, I'm not mad, I don't want to turn this into a huge arguement either. I said my opinions and I'm sticking to that and everyone has their own views and that's all.

12-08-2019, 04:24 PM

Electricmastro

[QUOTE=Doombot;4724546]Everyone is calm, lets not turn this into the typical Twitter mudslinging fest! Namor and his ethnicity and also that of the Atlanteans is an interesting topic to talk about, at least in my opinion, and I think we can do it without letting it slide into the nasty territory.[/QUOTE]

No mudslingin', but I do suspect there are a few folks in this thread that wouldn't mind Namor in a mud[I]wrestling[/I] match.

12-08-2019, 04:33 PM

ImperiusWrecked

[QUOTE=Doombot;4724546]Everyone is calm, lets not turn this into the typical Twitter mudslinging fest! Namor and his ethnicity and also that of the Atlanteans is an interesting topic to talk about, at least in my opinion, and I think we can do it without letting it slide into the nasty territory.[/QUOTE]

As I see it, the Atlanteans being Indigenous or Native American etc. is coded in the comics, their homes are destroyed and polluted due to the human's actions, they have to relocate constantly. Poisons and disease almost wipe out their people etc. They are not permitted to enter the U.N. or have rights on the surface world for a long time, Namor used to constantly fight to have their people be recognized in the U.N. Also if Tony Stark had his way he would have placed them under government occupation.

Atlantis itself, reminds me of the Mayans, who when the Spanish arrived found it to be a wonder because of how highly advanced their cities and science was. Yes there is Roman influence because of the Myth of Atlantis but also Atlantis was supposed to be the most advanced place in the world before the Cataclysm.

12-08-2019, 05:04 PM

Doombot

[QUOTE=ImperiusWrecked;4724615]As I see it, the Atlanteans being Indigenous or Native American etc. is coded in the comics, their homes are destroyed and polluted due to the human's actions, they have to relocate constantly. Poisons and disease almost wipe out their people etc. They are not permitted to enter the U.N. or have rights on the surface world for a long time, Namor used to constantly fight to have their people be recognized in the U.N. Also if Tony Stark had his way he would have placed them under government occupation.

Atlantis itself, reminds me of the Mayans, who when the Spanish arrived found it to be a wonder because of how highly advanced their cities and science was. Yes there is Roman influence because of the Myth of Atlantis but also Atlantis was supposed to be the most advanced place in the world before the Cataclysm.[/QUOTE]

That's an interesting take. I can understand how you could see that in some of the events of the Silver Age or scenes in the Golden Age books, like Namor and his cousins wanting to play "Atlanteans vs Americans" as children, which is an obvious take on American kids playing "Cowboys and Indians", but in their game the "white Americans" are the foil. This was literally all I feel Everett was doing, and not making the Atlanteans stand-ins for indigenous peoples in America. He was in no way able to see the age of identity politics coming nearly a century after he made it. You can (and have) easily make a case for it though, and I like reading other takes.

For myself though, I have a hard time meshing that view with the idea of Atlantis being this highly advanced, technological society, one that had no contact with the surface world until the 20th century. They have laser weapons, tank like machines and amphibious fighter craft, that was ahead of anything in the 1940s. They're not victims of colonization, they are victims of carelessness and apathy from humans who, for the most part, don't even know they are there. Atlantis has the ability to take western power head on, unlike the Aztec or the already declining Maya did. To me Atlantis was the original [I]source[/I] of the great mediterranean cultures of antiquity. Greece, Italy, Egypt, the Near East, all are descendants of that original society, it's the missing or lost piece of out history, one that the west has forgotten and turned into myth. After the cataclysm the survivors went through their own dark ages, learning to live in the oceans and slowly rebuilding who they were, eventually remaking their great culture, which grew in isolation from the surface until the 20th century.

12-08-2019, 05:13 PM

Electricmastro

[QUOTE=Doombot;4724650]That's an interesting take. I can understand how you could see that in some of the events of the Silver Age or scenes in the Golden Age books, like Namor and his cousins wanting to play "Atlanteans vs Americans" as children, which is an obvious take on American kids playing "Cowboys and Indians", but in their game the "white Americans" are the foil. This was literally all I feel Everett was doing, and not making the Atlanteans stand-ins for indigenous peoples in America. He was in no way able to see the age of identity politics coming nearly a century after he made it. You can (and have) easily make a case for it though, and I like reading other takes.

For myself though, I have a hard time meshing that view with the idea of Atlantis being this highly advanced, technological society, one that had no contact with the surface world until the 20th century. They have laser weapons, tank like machines and amphibious fighter craft, that was ahead of anything in the 1940s. They're not victims of colonization, they are victims of carelessness and apathy from humans who, for the most part, don't even know they are there. Atlantis has the ability to take western power head on, unlike the Aztec or the already declining Maya did. To me Atlantis was the original [I]source[/I] of the great mediterranean cultures of antiquity. Greece, Italy, Egypt, the Near East, all are descendants of that original society, it's the missing or lost piece of out history, one that the west has forgotten and turned into myth. After the cataclysm the survivors went through their own dark ages, learning to live in the oceans and slowly rebuilding who they were, eventually remaking their great culture, which grew in isolation from the surface until the 20th century.[/QUOTE]

I think I've heard that Everett had Namor be "against the white man" due to the racism that perceived black people and other non-white people to be "inferior" in terms of being a force to be reckoned with, assuming that the white man was a bigger threat than the black man, but I'm not sure how true that is, nor am I sure in regards to Everett's views of race in and near the World War II era. Another theory is that it's because Namor and the others only saw the white man attack Atlantis is what led to them specifying "the white man," though again, I'm not sure.