<< This idea about people "literally bearing each other's burdens" is also in
_All Hallows Eve_, by Charles Williams. Likewise it seems to appear in
_Till We Have Faces_ by C. S. Lewis. I am not a Williams scholar and can't
give a history of the concept as Williams develops it, but my impression is
that he uses it quite a lot. >>

Some of this is pretty, what is the word? orthodox prayer stuff. Words may
be failing me but the mechanism is familiar just from years of being an
Episcopalian. Maybe I've just been lucky in the people and writings and use
of the prayer book... anyway, some of the answers you are looking for may be
tracked down through a seminarian or other, more religious, connection.

Lizzie, inchoate as usual

David S. Bratman

... Here are some books on Williams s theology. (Look in a university library for these.) Cavaliero, Glen. _Charles Williams, Poet of Theology._ Eerdmans,

Message 2 of 25
, Feb 5, 2001

0 Attachment

At 07:20 AM 2/5/2001 , Ted Sherman wrote:

>Get a copy of Williams's "The Image of the City and Other Essays," edited
>(if I remember correctly) by Anne Ridler. It contains an essay or two on
>Williams's notions of substitution, exchange, and coinherence. There're also
>numerous books on Williams's theology, though the titles escape me at the
>present.

Here are some books on Williams's theology. (Look in a university library
for these.)

To Cornelia Penner re Charles Williams co-inherence. Someone will refer you to Lewis biographies/ autobiographical writings. I suggest you discover the works

Message 3 of 25
, Feb 7, 2001

0 Attachment

To Cornelia Penner re Charles Williams' co-inherence. Someone will refer
you to Lewis' biographies/ autobiographical writings. I suggest you
discover the works of Elizabeth Gouge, and in particular "The Heart of
the Family". There are several examples, as: "He did not know what he
had given the child - the freedom from pain that he might have had in
his last moments, perhaps, to give her lifelong freedom from some shape
of fear which haunted her..." One of the characters sends his "peace" to
another, and receives in return a burden of fatigue and fear and
despair. Grace.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Croft, Janet B

Might it be worth nominating for our awards, even though we haven t seen it yet? I guess it s not likely to get to you before tomorrow s deadline. Janet Janet

Message 4 of 25
, Feb 27, 2003

0 Attachment

Might it be worth nominating for our awards, even though we haven't seen it
yet? I guess it's not likely to get to you before tomorrow's deadline.

My copy of _The Detective Fiction Reviews_ was just shipped by Amazon.com according to an email, so the book is now available. --Joe

Message 5 of 25
, Feb 27, 2003

0 Attachment

My copy of _The Detective Fiction Reviews_ was just shipped by Amazon.com
according to an email, so the book is now available.

--Joe

David S. Bratman

It s a 2003 book, so it wouldn t be eligible. By our 3-year eligibility period for scholarship, it would be eligible in 2004-06, so don t worry about missing

Message 6 of 25
, Feb 27, 2003

0 Attachment

It's a 2003 book, so it wouldn't be eligible. By our 3-year eligibility
period for scholarship, it would be eligible in 2004-06, so don't worry
about missing the boat.

But remember, this is an Inklings scholarship award, so you'd be nominating
the book for the quality of Jared Lobdell's editing and supplementary
material, not for the value of having Williams's texts reprinted. The only
such books that have ever won the MFA are Doug Anderson's _Annotated
Hobbit_ and Christina Scull & Wayne Hammond's _Roverandom_, so our
standards for such work are pretty high. Digging out rare material,
dressing it up, and publishing it, are worthy acts, but perhaps one needs
to do more than that to deserve an MSA. (Mind you, I haven't seen the book
so I don't know how much Jared actually did.)

- David Bratman

At 08:08 AM 2/27/2003 , Janet wrote:

>Might it be worth nominating for our awards, even though we haven't seen it
>yet? I guess it's not likely to get to you before tomorrow's deadline.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jchristopher@... [mailto:jchristopher@...]
>
>My copy of _The Detective Fiction Reviews_ was just shipped by Amazon.com
>according to an email, so the book is now available.

Croft, Janet B

D oh -- right, it is a 2003 book and not eligible this year. Well, let s hope it s a good job of editing for the sake of Williams scholarship, and keep it in

Message 7 of 25
, Feb 27, 2003

0 Attachment

D'oh -- right, it is a 2003 book and not eligible this year. Well, let's
hope it's a good job of editing for the sake of Williams scholarship, and
keep it in mind for next year, then, if Lobdell did substantial work on it..

It's a 2003 book, so it wouldn't be eligible. By our 3-year eligibility
period for scholarship, it would be eligible in 2004-06, so don't worry
about missing the boat.

But remember, this is an Inklings scholarship award, so you'd be nominating
the book for the quality of Jared Lobdell's editing and supplementary
material, not for the value of having Williams's texts reprinted. The only
such books that have ever won the MFA are Doug Anderson's _Annotated
Hobbit_ and Christina Scull & Wayne Hammond's _Roverandom_, so our
standards for such work are pretty high. Digging out rare material,
dressing it up, and publishing it, are worthy acts, but perhaps one needs
to do more than that to deserve an MSA. (Mind you, I haven't seen the book
so I don't know how much Jared actually did.)

- David Bratman

At 08:08 AM 2/27/2003 , Janet wrote:

>Might it be worth nominating for our awards, even though we haven't seen it
>yet? I guess it's not likely to get to you before tomorrow's deadline.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jchristopher@... [mailto:jchristopher@...]
>
>My copy of _The Detective Fiction Reviews_ was just shipped by Amazon.com
>according to an email, so the book is now available.

I really, really loved his Arthurian poems. In my opinion, there is no shame in reading them right along with a guide, say, CSLewis essays that are bound

Message 10 of 25
, Aug 9 1:33 PM

0 Attachment

I really, really loved his Arthurian poems. In my opinion, there is no
shame in reading them right along with a guide, say, CSLewis' essays that
are bound with them in the Erdman volume, or some other. It makes them
that much more real. The novels are good too, but I think the poems are
better, more creative genius really.

I thought the URL at amazon was too long, here is a title:

Taliessin through Logres [and] The region of the summer stars,
by Charles Williams
(out of print, Erdman's publisher)

There are several copies at abebooks, search under
Taliessin
for Taliessin through Logres

This is Grail/Arthurian stuff. The novels treat of various supernatural
and Christian themes. If you have a favorite theme you are hankering
after, you might like to pick a first that way (Tarot, etc.).

For general info about the poems, google
Charles Williams Arthuriad
and take your pick.

Try The Masques of Amen House, available from the Mythopoeic Press at www.mythsoc.com. (In the interest of full disclosure, I was part of the team that

Message 11 of 25
, Aug 9 2:15 PM

0 Attachment

Try The Masques of Amen House, available from the Mythopoeic Press at
www.mythsoc.com. (In the interest of full disclosure, I was part of the
team that published it. But I wouldn't have unless I thought it was a
worthwhile title.)

For me, the most accessible of the novels is War in Heaven. The poetry is NOT a good starting point. Diamond Proudbrook

Message 12 of 25
, Aug 9 2:23 PM

0 Attachment

For me, the most accessible of the novels is "War in Heaven."

The poetry is NOT a good starting point.

Diamond Proudbrook

jamcconney@aol.com

I agree with Diamond P. I started with War in Heaven and think it is the most accessible. My favorite is Descent into Hell (though I consider it structurally

Message 13 of 25
, Aug 9 5:31 PM

0 Attachment

I agree with Diamond P. I started with War in Heaven and think it is the
most accessible. My favorite is Descent into Hell (though I consider it
structurally flawed) but it's probably not the one to start with (when you're ready
for it, it will lift you right off the chair). Also like The Greater Trumps
and All Hallows Eve, but never really got with The Place of the Lion.

I rather imagine we're all going to be widely separated on our favorites
(and un-favorites).

Anne

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mari Dole

Yes, I agree, and the first sentence is a classic. Mari ... From: Stolzi [mailto:Stolzi@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 2:24 PM To:

' Williams unfailingly leads us all on what George Eliot called "a severe
mental scamper." '

I'm including a copy to Wingfold because part-way down Howard reaches the
question of GMD, Hell, and Heaven.

Diamond Proudbrook

David Bratman

... This is quite interesting, and entertaining. Howard is the Tom Shippey of Williams studies. On the difficulty of Williams s style, I cherish a review he

Message 17 of 25
, Dec 1, 2004

0 Attachment

At 04:21 PM 12/1/2004 -0600, Stolzi wrote:

>Thomas Howard has an online article on the "no. 3 Inkling":

This is quite interesting, and entertaining. Howard is the Tom Shippey of
Williams studies.

On the difficulty of Williams's style, I cherish a review he wrote of
Lewis's "Problem of Pain", which begins:

"I shall not attempt to summarize here an already compact book. Mr.
Lewis's prose is known, and those who know it would not thank me for
translating it into mine."

David Bratman

John Davis

Hi, (Not sure if this is off-topic of not - if so, many apologies...) Does anyone know of any other authors who write in a similar vein to Charles Williams?

Message 18 of 25
, Feb 16, 2009

0 Attachment

Hi,

(Not sure if this is off-topic of not - if so, many apologies...)

Does anyone know of any other authors who write in a similar vein to Charles Williams? Aside from Lewis' 'Hideous Strength', I don't know of any, which makes coming to the end of the last two of Williams' books rather sad...

John

--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 5.9 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 153003 of my spam emails to date.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

The Professional version does not have this message

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Berni Phillips

You might enjoy the books of Tim Powers. His _Declare_ is the novel which most shows his Christianity. (He s a Catholic Christian.) All of his novels are

Message 19 of 25
, Feb 16, 2009

0 Attachment

You might enjoy the books of Tim Powers. His _Declare_ is the novel which
most shows his Christianity. (He's a Catholic Christian.) All of his
novels are good. Also James Blaylock's novels might be your cup of tea,
particularly _The Paper Grail_.

> Does anyone know of any other authors who write in a similar vein to
> Charles Williams? Aside from Lewis' 'Hideous Strength', I don't know of
> any, which makes coming to the end of the last two of Williams' books
> rather sad...
>
> John

John Davis

Hi Berni, Thanks for that - I ll give them a try. Although it is probably the non-Christian elements of Williams books that most appeal to me, which is to say

Message 20 of 25
, Feb 17, 2009

0 Attachment

Hi Berni,

Thanks for that - I'll give them a try.

Although it is probably the non-Christian elements of Williams' books that most appeal to me, which is to say that they often seem more spiritual than Christian - the emphasis being on morality rather than church.

You might enjoy the books of Tim Powers. His _Declare_ is the novel which
most shows his Christianity. (He's a Catholic Christian.) All of his
novels are good. Also James Blaylock's novels might be your cup of tea,
particularly _The Paper Grail_.

> Does anyone know of any other authors who write in a similar vein to
> Charles Williams? Aside from Lewis' 'Hideous Strength', I don't know of
> any, which makes coming to the end of the last two of Williams' books
> rather sad...
>
> John

--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 5.9 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 153034 of my spam emails to date.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

The Professional version does not have this message

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jason Fisher

John, Try Gustav Meyrink s The Golem (1915). It s just one novel and so wouldn t tide you over much, I guess; but to me, it very much has a Charles Williams

Message 21 of 25
, Feb 17, 2009

0 Attachment

John,

Try Gustav Meyrink's The Golem (1915). It's just one novel and so wouldn't tide you over much, I guess; but to me, it very much has a Charles Williams feel. It's kind of a spiritual horror set in the Jewish ghetto of Prague. Borges was a big fan of the novel, but it's been largely forgotten since.

Although it is probably the non-Christian elements of Williams' books that most appeal to me, which is to say that they often seem more spiritual than Christian - the emphasis being on morality rather than church.

You might enjoy the books of Tim Powers. His _Declare_ is the novel which
most shows his Christianity. (He's a Catholic Christian.) All of his
novels are good. Also James Blaylock's novels might be your cup of tea,
particularly _The Paper Grail_.

Berni

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Davis" <john@jdavis. co.uk>

> Does anyone know of any other authors who write in a similar vein to
> Charles Williams? Aside from Lewis' 'Hideous Strength', I don't know of
> any, which makes coming to the end of the last two of Williams' books
> rather sad...
>
> John

--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 5.9 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 153034 of my spam emails to date.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfigh ter.com/len

The Professional version does not have this message

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John D Rateliff

In that case, I d suggest you go behind Williams and give Algernon Blackwood s JOHN SILENCE a try. And also Wm Yeats Rosa Alchemica (most easily found,

Message 22 of 25
, Feb 17, 2009

0 Attachment

In that case, I'd suggest you go behind Williams and give Algernon
Blackwood's JOHN SILENCE a try. And also Wm Yeats' "Rosa
Alchemica" (most easily found, with two related tales, in MYTHOLOGIES
[1959]). Some Arthur Machen stories also hover close to that territory.
If it had been the supernatural suspense that hooked you, I'd
have suggested Sax Rohmer.
I don't think there's anybody who's quite like Williams, though.
--John R.

On Feb 17, 2009, at 1:22 AM, John Davis wrote:
> Although it is probably the non-Christian elements of Williams'
> books that most appeal to me, which is to say that they often seem
> more spiritual than Christian - the emphasis being on morality
> rather than church.

John Davis

Thanks for everyone s suggestions. I ll give them all a try. John ... From: John D Rateliff To: mythsoc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 5:33

In that case, I'd suggest you go behind Williams and give Algernon
Blackwood's JOHN SILENCE a try. And also Wm Yeats' "Rosa
Alchemica" (most easily found, with two related tales, in MYTHOLOGIES
[1959]). Some Arthur Machen stories also hover close to that territory.
If it had been the supernatural suspense that hooked you, I'd
have suggested Sax Rohmer.
I don't think there's anybody who's quite like Williams, though.
--John R.

On Feb 17, 2009, at 1:22 AM, John Davis wrote:
> Although it is probably the non-Christian elements of Williams'
> books that most appeal to me, which is to say that they often seem
> more spiritual than Christian - the emphasis being on morality
> rather than church.

--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 153057 of my spam emails to date.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

The Professional version does not have this message

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.