The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.

More on the FGM story. This time, doctors claim that the injuries to the girls are even worse than they first thought. May Allah curse these so-called doctors, their dharam-guru Muffadul (LA), the aamils and mullahs who encourage it. May they burn in the hottest and deepest parts of hell.

May Muffy (LA) be humiliated, degraded and his name become synonymous around the world with misogyny and backwardness. May all Muffy (LA) supporters like pervert and his verbal diarrhea buddy also burn in hell. I pray that common Bohras wake up and leave this horrible community and stop subjecting their daughters to this horrible practice. I pray that all women and men live equally, as partners with no violence to done to either in the name of religion.

Agreed, Biradar, it is not "one man's" misdoing. But this one man has the power to make a difference, change the course of history. But does he have the acumen to do it, that is the question. At least, FD's Taher Fakhruddin took a more reasonable, non-commital stand.

Non commital? STF has Eliminated violence on minors via his statement. He has forbidden the practice on minors and has asked that women make an informed decision in adulthood about whether they wish to undergo the procedure. His statement protects minor girls and protects the right of women to choose to do with their body as they please. One can't get more committed than that to protect little girls and the right of women!

These doctors are as much victims of one man's rigidity and tyranny as they are culprits. The whole situation is just sad.

Which "one man" are you talking about? The practice of FGM is deeply rooted in the Bohra theology, going back to centuries, all the way back to the Fatimids in Egypt. S Qadi Noman likely incorporated this into the Ismaili law based on local North African customs prevalent during the Fatimid times. Why blame just Mr. Muffadul Saifuddin? Misogyny and backwardness form the backbone of classical Islamic traditions, in most branches of Islam. Bohras just take it to the next step, doing actual physical harm. FGM, iddat and rida, these are the Bohri assaults on women. Yet, few question them, and the logical basis for them.

The real issue here is the following: traditional religions are highly misogynistic. Islam is no exception. Just go to the bastion of Islam, Saudi Arabia, and observe the life of women. They can't even drive, or leave the house without a male guardian. Beatings, beheadings, chopping off hands and legs, all are part of this "Islamic" society that is spreading their poison everywhere.

Islam itself is highly male dominated, with women almost everywhere in Islamic societies suppressed or even mutilated. Look no further than Saudi, Taliban, Iran and of course Bohris. Those communities that try and give equal footing to women (think of modern Ismailis, some Sufi groups) are marginalized and called "kaafir".

Hence, this is not a problem of "one man's rigidity". It is ingrained in the structure of the Bohra theology, which itself is rooted in the highly tribal and misogynistic Islamic laws.

That may very well be the case but MS was given a chance TWICE by the Speak Out on FGM group to end the violence. He ignored them the first time and answered them the second time with that now infamous rant of the so-called Zikra speech

Which "one man" are you talking about? The practice of FGM is deeply rooted in the Bohra theology, going back to centuries, all the way back to the Fatimids in Egypt. S Qadi Noman likely incorporated this into the Ismaili law based on local North African customs prevalent during the Fatimid times. Why blame just Mr. Muffadul Saifuddin? Misogyny and backwardness form the backbone of classical Islamic traditions, in most branches of Islam. Bohras just take it to the next step, doing actual physical harm. FGM, iddat and rida, these are the Bohri assaults on women. Yet, few question them, and the logical basis for them.

The real issue here is the following: traditional religions are highly misogynistic. Islam is no exception. Just go to the bastion of Islam, Saudi Arabia, and observe the life of women. They can't even drive, or leave the house without a male guardian. Beatings, beheadings, chopping off hands and legs, all are part of this "Islamic" society that is spreading their poison everywhere.

Islam itself is highly male dominated, with women almost everywhere in Islamic societies suppressed or even mutilated. Look no further than Saudi, Taliban, Iran and of course Bohris. Those communities that try and give equal footing to women (think of modern Ismailis, some Sufi groups) are marginalized and called "kaafir".

Hence, this is not a problem of "one man's rigidity". It is ingrained in the structure of the Bohra theology, which itself is rooted in the highly tribal and misogynistic Islamic laws.

That may very well be the case but MS was given a chance TWICE by the Speak Out on FGM group to end the violence. He ignored them the first time and answered them the second time with that now infamous rant of the so-called Zikra speech

You are absolutely right Crater Lake. One needs to assign more responsibility on MS vs. previous duat. This movement has been in earnest for about two years. MS was approached peacefully and respectfully twice by the activists and not only did he choose to turn a deaf ear to their pleas but he dug in his heels, created a hurricane of deception and lies and insisted that the procedure must be done. He is to be blamed fully for the current entanglement of his people with law enforcement and the dragging of the dawoodi bohra name through mud.

In contrast STF took up the challenge, ENDED the practice on minor girls and empowered adult women to make the choice! The handling of this situation, among others, makes it clear as daylight who the true leader is.

Question to STF Supporters
If called upon by Prosecutors as friend of court to give his opinion on FGM against those arrested, what will be his position. Would he or his surrogates testify against those doctors and others (Aamils and their wives) who are in line to be arrested for coercing Abdes/Amtes and their children for FGM torture.

"The tiff between Eman Ahmed's sister, Shaimaa, and doctors at Saifee Hospital worsened on Thursday, with the hospital calling the police on Shaimaa as she tried to feed a few drops of water to Eman, something that is risky for her since her throat is paralysed.
Unsupervised feeding could cause the water to go into her lungs. Shaimaa claimed the hospital did not warn her of this, but Saifee insisted it had."

"On April 11, Dr Muffazal Lakdawala sent me a text message saying that he gave chocolates to Eman and that made her happy. So, when Eman was asking for water today, I gave her a few drops of it. But I didn't know it would lead to so much trouble," Shaimaa told mid-day.

After reading this news article i could not help but remember the video(Cromwell hospital) that was shown the world over(to garner support) after the demise of Burhanuddin mola(RA), and when people had starting doubting the nass drama.
The video had shown that several shehzadas were in the small hospital room, and that Qaid Johar did araz of shukr for nass and then asked DMBS to come forward (wherein he hesitated at first) and then proceeded and then QJ gave sherbet to Burhanuddin mola.
If you all recall it , this was after the severe paralytic stroke and that although it was extremely dangerous to serve liquid to Burhanuddin mola(RA), due to the severity of the stroke , the shehzadas(in all their combined ignorance) still went ahead and served him none the less(to prove to the doubters that he was in good health).

Fast forward today , and read the full circle of these kothari baboons at Saifee hospital and just read what they claim for the patient..
I am sure people on this forum are smart enough to get as to how conniving, the shehzadas and kothari folks are..what double standards they have for their own father when he was suffering from a more severe stroke then Emaan.

If i remember it right, the Doctors of that Hospital have given statements that it was extremely foolish to give any liquid or food to someone who has that severe paralytic attack and could cause irreparable damage.

Just another thought to ponder the impostor's team and the impostor(DMBS) actions now and then.

Shows the sheer hypocrisy and idiocy of bohras. Such a shame that as soon as you try to reason with them they play the religous card. You can't argue with that as then they attack.

Also disgusting to see how they undermine women's voices and attack people who have been brave enough to come out in the open and share.

It makes me ashamed that I am a part of this community.

The fundamental issue here, one which people here find it hard to accept, is: it is not Muffy per-se who is to blame for this, but the foundational principles of Islam, and Bohra fiqh in particular, are the culprits. In people's zeal to blame Muffy (yes, he is a horrible tyrant and misogynist) and absolve STF people seem to think this is something new, just in the last few years of Muffy's tyranny. If we looks at even this particular Detroit case, we find that this Butcher and the owners of Burhani Clinic have been doing this for a long time, perhaps even as early as 2005 or before. That time, SMB was alive and well, and coherent (or appeared to be). Our mothers and sisters and aunts have had this done to them too, and that, obviously, is not something recent either.

The only real way to be rid of this and other horrid practices, is to recognize the foundation from which they spring, acknowledge they are morally wrong and then reject them. In doing so, one will realize that there are many misogynistic ideas in particular forms of Islam and all of these are morally wrong and need to be rejected. Unless one is ready to confront this as an issue of immoral religious practice, and the recognition of religion being a mixed bag of both bad and good, we will continue to breed fanatics who will say we must do so-and-so as it is religious practice.

This brings up a further, deeper, question: we have a moral repugnance to certain practices like FGM and iddat. Where does this moral repugnance come from? Obviously, If we simply obeyed unconditionally the religious law we inherit from our parents, we would not have this repugnance, as we would think (like many Bohras do), this is perfectly fine thing to do!

To answer SBM: Why, for god's sake, would anyone from FD get involved in the court case, filling briefs etc? It makes no sense. Sometimes, my friend, I think you are smoking some hallucinogenic substances, as you are prone to saying the most strange and weird things.

To answer SBM: Why, for god's sake, would anyone from FD get involved in the court case, filling briefs etc? It makes no sense. Sometimes, my friend, I think you are smoking some hallucinogenic substances, as you are prone to saying the most strange and weird things.

I don't understand SBM's compulsion to drag Fatemi Dawat generally, randomly and vaguely into all the self-created mufaddali problems!! If the FBI needs Fatemi Dawat for something specific, they know where to reach them!

Agreed, Biradar, it is not "one man's" misdoing. But this one man has the power to make a difference, change the course of history. But does he have the acumen to do it, that is the question. At least, FD's Taher Fakhruddin took a more reasonable, non-commital stand.

Non commital? STF has Eliminated violence on minors via his statement. He has forbidden the practice on minors and has asked that women make an informed decision in adulthood about whether they wish to undergo the procedure. His statement protects minor girls and protects the right of women to choose to do with their body as they please. One can't get more committed than that to protect little girls and the right of women!

Shows the sheer hypocrisy and idiocy of bohras. Such a shame that as soon as you try to reason with them they play the religous card. You can't argue with that as then they attack.

Also disgusting to see how they undermine women's voices and attack people who have been brave enough to come out in the open and share.

It makes me ashamed that I am a part of this community.

The fundamental issue here, one which people here find it hard to accept, is: it is not Muffy per-se who is to blame for this, but the foundational principles of Islam, and Bohra fiqh in particular, are the culprits. In people's zeal to blame Muffy (yes, he is a horrible tyrant and misogynist) and absolve STF people seem to think this is something new, just in the last few years of Muffy's tyranny. If we looks at even this particular Detroit case, we find that this Butcher and the owners of Burhani Clinic have been doing this for a long time, perhaps even as early as 2005 or before. That time, SMB was alive and well, and coherent (or appeared to be). Our mothers and sisters and aunts have had this done to them too, and that, obviously, is not something recent either.

The only real way to be rid of this and other horrid practices, is to recognize the foundation from which they spring, acknowledge they are morally wrong and then reject them. In doing so, one will realize that there are many misogynistic ideas in particular forms of Islam and all of these are morally wrong and need to be rejected. Unless one is ready to confront this as an issue of immoral religious practice, and the recognition of religion being a mixed bag of both bad and good, we will continue to breed fanatics who will say we must do so-and-so as it is religious practice.

This brings up a further, deeper, question: we have a moral repugnance to certain practices like FGM and iddat. Where does this moral repugnance come from? Obviously, If we simply obeyed unconditionally the religious law we inherit from our parents, we would not have this repugnance, as we would think (like many Bohras do), this is perfectly fine thing to do!

To answer SBM: Why, for god's sake, would anyone from FD get involved in the court case, filling briefs etc? It makes no sense. Sometimes, my friend, I think you are smoking some hallucinogenic substances, as you are prone to saying the most strange and weird things.

Birader the reason SMS is a target is he and his lieutenants have poured money to fight FGM cases in Australia, they did not assist the government, when they realised they were trapped by evidence they looked for ways to protect themselves and reduce punishment and started writing templated letters. In those letters no signatures from the SMS or Shezada but trustees. It was a legal document. Not a fatwa.

Note Australia case started whem SMB was alive but incapacitated . If he was alive we can only speculate what or how he would have handled. US cases are continuation of raids in Australia as it is common knowledge FGM is widespread practised by professional parents. It is now on record it is institutionalised FGM with guidelines scriptures and propagation through sabaqs.

SMS made the blunder of emotional outburst of audio clip from Zikra that also landed with authorities and his bluff caught out.That was his misfortune.

STF also had to say something and he too was bold enough to say it is not required on children . However he should have gone full way to ban it but that would have been criticised by orthodox making him look weak or appeasing reformists. STF is not the target of authorities because he is regarded claimant and not Sayedna in office of orthodox or majority leader.

So yes the Diai as part of hierarchical system , absolute power is liable.Any SXX would be held accountable. he controls propagation of Bohra theology. If Bohra were a decentralized group it would be another story. If SMS did come out and trust me he will be forced after several cases come to light. If he or his 54th says there are some errors in Bohra Fatemide traditions which are optional or to be ignored things will change. From then on people will judge and not follow blindly.

His lieutenants and committees have declined offers of support from welfare departments and Muslim scholars to start transformation process. Rather his legal teams are challenging through Appeals the definition of FGM and whether it covers Khafdz. Does that read to people signs of sincere reform.As SBM stated where are Amils and ustads going to FBI giving names of women who are hiding but have been cutters. Seeking Amnesty for disclosure without charges and work with authorities around the world to stop this practice.

On top of that they are running propaganda campaigns by planting comments.

At present in absence of sensible cooperation from the community the cases are important to discourage orthodox by fear of imprisoned even if it means displeasing Maula.

To answer SBM: Why, for god's sake, would anyone from FD get involved in the court case, filling briefs etc? It makes no sense. Sometimes, my friend, I think you are smoking some hallucinogenic substances, as you are prone to saying the most strange and weird things.

Biradar
The reason I keep asking about Fatemi People to come clean is because you, yourself stated that this FGM was going thru SMB's time when
SKQ was Mazoon and all his family were in agreement of FGM with SMB and his surrogates as they never objected to such practice. So basically they were also part of this heinous practice and now since SMS got caught, FD people are just playing with Semantics. Would they apologize to all those innocent victims when SKQ was Mazoon and did not come out openly against the practice.
You can not have both ways. SKQ and his family kept their mouth shut when they knew about the corruption in Dawat and FGM practice. now when they lost power, all of sudden they are worried about well being of the community. Hypocrisy at its peak..

To answer SBM: Why, for god's sake, would anyone from FD get involved in the court case, filling briefs etc? It makes no sense. Sometimes, my friend, I think you are smoking some hallucinogenic substances, as you are prone to saying the most strange and weird things.

Biradar
The reason I keep asking about Fatemi People to come clean is because you, yourself stated that this FGM was going thru SMB's time when
SKQ was Mazoon and all his family were in agreement of FGM with SMB and his surrogates as they never objected to such practice. So basically they were also part of this heinous practice and now since SMS got caught, FD people are just playing with Semantics. Would they apologize to all those innocent victims when SKQ was Mazoon and did not come out openly against the practice.
You can not have both ways. SKQ and his family kept their mouth shut when they knew about the corruption in Dawat and FGM practice. now when they lost power, all of sudden they are worried about well being of the community. Hypocrisy at its peak..

STF's statement was not proactive. It was in response to a request by the Speak Out movement. STF and SKQ had privately counselled people in the west in line with the statement STF made, given the laws and the fact that there is no upper limit on age in our texts and after all it is a sunnah. I don't see how they "supported" the practice during the time of SMB. When the Speak Out ladies informed him of the corruption in the practice and STF was in a position to do something about it, he did. During SMB era, no one asked them to do anything and it would have been up to SMB anyway!

During SMB era, no one asked them to do anything and it would have been up to SMB anyway!

One does not need to be asked. A good LEADER when sees the crime and injustice done, speaks up and stand up against crime,tyranny, fraud, killing WILD ANIMALS for Pleasure and most importantly MONEY LAUNDERING
and it is laughable to put all the blame to SMB when SKQ was his right hand man and enjoying the 2nd most powerful position in DAWAAT.
Now after loosing powers, all of sudden his surrogates and family members decide that community was wronged and time to speak is selfish and unless they come up like "Zahir and Batin" to expose all those corrupt family members and corrupt practices, they are still considered as accomplices in crime as they were witness to the corrupt and criminal practices and did not say anything publicly

These doctors are as much victims of one man's rigidity and tyranny as they are culprits. The whole situation is just sad.

Which "one man" are you talking about? The practice of FGM is deeply rooted in the Bohra theology, going back to centuries, all the way back to the Fatimids in Egypt. S Qadi Noman likely incorporated this into the Ismaili law based on local North African customs prevalent during the Fatimid times. Why blame just Mr. Muffadul Saifuddin? Misogyny and backwardness form the backbone of classical Islamic traditions, in most branches of Islam. Bohras just take it to the next step, doing actual physical harm. FGM, iddat and rida, these are the Bohri assaults on women. Yet, few question them, and the logical basis for them.

The real issue here is the following: traditional religions are highly misogynistic. Islam is no exception. Just go to the bastion of Islam, Saudi Arabia, and observe the life of women. They can't even drive, or leave the house without a male guardian. Beatings, beheadings, chopping off hands and legs, all are part of this "Islamic" society that is spreading their poison everywhere.

Islam itself is highly male dominated, with women almost everywhere in Islamic societies suppressed or even mutilated. Look no further than Saudi, Taliban, Iran and of course Bohris. Those communities that try and give equal footing to women (think of modern Ismailis, some Sufi groups) are marginalized and called "kaafir".

Hence, this is not a problem of "one man's rigidity". It is ingrained in the structure of the Bohra theology, which itself is rooted in the highly tribal and misogynistic Islamic laws.

+1.Islam is mysoginistic. You talk of Saudis not allowing females to go out alone, I remember MB & MS saying women should not leave their house without taking permission from their husbands. If they do, Lanat is on them till they return. Apart from that, all the 'hidayat' MB gave over the years to women was always to remain second rate in the house.

Ultimately yes it's the Islamic practices which seap in one way or the other.

A leader of the Muslim sect embroiled in an alleged female genital mutilation conspiracy boarded a one-way flight to India on April 10, the same day FBI agents raided a medical clinic where a doctor allegedly cut 7-year-old girls, The Detroit News has learned.

The flight is the latest development in a case that has led to criminal charges against one leader of the local Dawoodi Bohra community based out of a Farmington Hills mosque. Three members of the mosque have been charged in federal court with female genital mutilation and prosecutors say they belong to a religious and cultural community that practices the illegal procedure.

FBI agents were unable to stop a doctor from allegedly mutilating the genitalia of 7-year-old girls at a Livonia clinic despite installing a secret video camera outside the facility days earlier, The Detroit News has learned.

Multiple sources confirmed agents installed the camera outside the Burhani Medical Clinic in Livonia on Jan. 25, nine days before two Minnesota girls allegedly were brought to Metro Detroit for a procedure practiced by members of their small Shia Muslim sect, the Dawoodi Bohra.

The camera captured a minute-by-minute recording of events outside the clinic Feb. 3 but there is no indication in court records that investigators were watching the surveillance footage in real time, were aware of its significance initially or knew about the alleged surgeries beforehand.
.....

A leader of the Muslim sect embroiled in an alleged female genital mutilation conspiracy boarded a one-way flight to India on April 10, the same day FBI agents raided a medical clinic where a doctor allegedly cut 7-year-old girls, The Detroit News has learned.

The flight is the latest development in a case that has led to criminal charges against one leader of the local Dawoodi Bohra community based out of a Farmington Hills mosque. Three members of the mosque have been charged in federal court with female genital mutilation and prosecutors say they belong to a religious and cultural community that practices the illegal procedure.

This morning during Senate Hearing, Director Comey of FBI mentioned arrests of 3 people in regards to FGM. so now FGM performed by Dawoodi Bohras has become part of Senate and Senator Oren Hatch of Utah suggested back ground check of anyone coming in contact with Children.
This is not good news as Director Comey mentioned about how FBI sees this investigation and arrest as high priority crime against children.
This was mentioned in his opening statement.

This morning during Senate Hearing, Director Comey of FBI mentioned arrests of 3 people in regards to FGM. so now FGM performed by Dawoodi Bohras has become part of Senate and Senator Oren Hatch of Utah suggested back ground check of anyone coming in contact with Children.
This is not good news as Director Comey mentioned about how FBI sees this investigation and arrest as high priority crime against children.
This was mentioned in his opening statement.

Interesting that Comey himself talked about this, and that too in the US Senate. Finally, Muffy has managed to bring fame to his followers, and even US Senators and FBI Director are discussing them and their barbaric practices. Of course, this is notorious type of fame, but what else can one expect from a seventh-fail misogynist buffoon? Mubarak to all Muffy Dawaat followers! Good job in proving to the world that your leaders are nothing but a pathetic bunch of women-hating barbarians. Mubarak Mubarak. More-la More-la, Muffy More-la!

Sad time not only for the Detroit Dawoodi Bohra Cult but also for the family of the Attars in Surat India. Where is Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin? Does he or any of he's private security guards, the Bohra thugs, AKA BURHANI GUARDS have guts to fight off the super powerful western media and the most dangerous FBI? I doubt it.
The leader of the cult, the Syedna, claims in he's sermons that he has 10 million angels around him, if any of he's disciples are in trouble, he will ORDER one of the farishta (God's Angels) to go and rescue them.. hellooooo, Mr claimant of the Syedna title, ... where is your Farishta now huh? Are they scared of the FBI? Why are you still hiding in Nairobi Kenya? Is Barack Hussain Obama protecting you?
Mr Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin, you and your thugs, the Burhani Guards are just talk... your dadagiri only works on poor and illiterate Bohras of India and Pakistan.

A leader of the Muslim sect embroiled in an alleged female genital mutilation conspiracy boarded a one-way flight to India on April 10, the same day FBI agents raided a medical clinic where a doctor allegedly cut 7-year-old girls, The Detroit News has learned.

The flight is the latest development in a case that has led to criminal charges against one leader of the local Dawoodi Bohra community based out of a Farmington Hills mosque. Three members of the mosque have been charged in federal court with female genital mutilation and prosecutors say they belong to a religious and cultural community that practices the illegal procedure.

Why did the RAT ran away. Isn't he suppose to be the Shair (Lion) of Dawat and Aamil sent by Dai Mutllak to protect and serve mumin. I hope USA has extradition treaty with India so this RAT rots in jail and end up as bitches of one of his cellmates.

FBI Director on Dawoodi Bohra FGM
This speech have made Bohra Aamil (Agents of The so called religious leader of Dawoodi Bohra Cult/Secret Society) are buying one way ticket back to where they came from, shithole AKA Badri Mahal, the HQ of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin and his 1000 plus Families (Scroungers of the earth)

Well, Trump has said it. All religions have freedom and if any religion bullies their people and exploits them then the law will fully deal with such miscreants. No wonder amils and bhaisahebs are running away to hide in their corner.