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TWeb had an OS update go bad and had to be restored to a previous state. We've lost two days worth of posts so you all get a do-over.

I grew up in the Nazarene church. They believe in the "second work of grace", where you get the Holy Spirit at a later date from when you first believe. They also taught that you can lose your salvation, but also that you become perfect after receiving the Spirit.

I couldn't reconcile any of that with scripture, and we eventually left the church.

The Spirit indwelled me at the moment of my belief, I know, because of the assurance I had and still have. I was baptized a few years later.

At first I was a Baptist, but later I became a member of the Nazarene Church for 17 years. Moved away and went back to another Baptist Church because I didn't fit in with the Nazarenes doctrinally. It was a great church, probably still is.

But from what I remember, the second work of grace as they taught it was entire sanctification, eradication of the carnal nature, but I don't recall them teaching that you didn't receive the Holy Spirit until that second work of grace. Maybe being filled with the spirit.

At first I was a Baptist, but later I became a member of the Nazarene Church for 17 years. Moved away and went back to another Baptist Church because I didn't fit in with the Nazarenes doctrinally. It was a great church, probably still is.

But from what I remember, the second work of grace as they taught it was entire sanctification, eradication of the carnal nature, but I don't recall them teaching that you didn't receive the Holy Spirit until that second work of grace. Maybe being filled with the spirit.

That's not what I recall. Discussing it with different pastors over the years, I got the impression that they believe you didn't have the Spirit until that moment, different for everybody, of entire sanctification.

They may be changing their thinking on this. When I've talked to my brother-in-law (formerly a Nazarene pastor) about it, he says he thinks you have the Spirit at the moment of salvation and that sanctification means it is an ongoing process. He still attends a Nazarene church, but left the ministry years ago.

I might lure him to becoming a Baptist, but my sister is died-in-the-wool Nazarene, and she would resist that change.

And I grieve for her. She lives such a defeated life, no assurance of her salvation.......

Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

That's not what I recall. Discussing it with different pastors over the years, I got the impression that they believe you didn't have the Spirit until that moment, different for everybody, of entire sanctification.

They may be changing their thinking on this. When I've talked to my brother-in-law (formerly a Nazarene pastor) about it, he says he thinks you have the Spirit at the moment of salvation and that sanctification means it is an ongoing process. He still attends a Nazarene church, but left the ministry years ago.

I might lure him to becoming a Baptist, but my sister is died-in-the-wool Nazarene, and she would resist that change.

And I grieve for her. She lives such a defeated life, no assurance of her salvation.......

I think sometimes we make the mistake that the "denomination" is "the beliefs". I've seen, however, where a different pastor in the same Church can alter what that Church "believes"... the pastor can add his own flavor, so you hear from one Nazarene pastor (a couple of decades ago, the local Nazarene pastor was my best friend) then you hear from another, and you kind of wonder, "ok, what's the real 'Nazarene' story?"

As for "when you get the Holy Spirit", I probably sound like a broken record --- to me, it's not so much 'when' or 'how much' of the Holy Spirit "you get", but how much of you the Holy Spirit gets - and that's yielding ourselves to Him. With some people, that comes pretty much "up front", but with many others, it's a process over time.

(I believe you receive the Holy Spirit when you accept Christ as Savior, but that doesn't mean you understand, or yield all that you are to Him)

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.