I think that a lot of blame must be laid at the feet of the media deniers in the western world.

Advertising doesn't encourage smoking, drinking, bad diet etc, it just lets people choose.
Violent films, games or cartoons do not encourage violent behaviour.
Sexually explicit media which concentrate on the exploitation, degradation, or humilation of women or children do not encourage sexually violent behaviour.

etc....etc...
Anybody who has watched the behaviour of an 8 year old after watching an afternoon of repeatedly violent cartoons will find it hard to believe any of the above statements, and the apologisers for the media are almost exclusively paid for by the media.

Get real, children learn by imitating...either the media, their peers, or their parents.

I'm not saying that children who have positive role models are exclusively good, but that more and more children are being led by the electronic baby sitter- the games console, the TV, the Video or DVD.

When my 8 yr old grandson comes to stay with us during the holidays, we do not watch TV, we spend time together,
Walking, trips out, shopping, cooking, gardening, just enjoying exploring the world and being together ....
Of an evening, we may watch a DVD together, or surf the net, or play computer games, but....
After his first weekend with us, he stopped asking for the TV at 7 in the morning, he stopped needing a Video playing at all times, and became a much calmer, happier and interested individual.

end of rant.....

The sig between the asterisks is so cool that only REALLY COOL people can even see it!

Everything you mentioned, aimed at adults is fine because of already having a value system, but at the age you mention kids are programmed to copy, its what kids have to do, their primeval brain must learn to copy to survive. Its only modern history where a lot of people are not "just surviving" but doing much more.

But games have 18certs so do films and adult material, this is all for a reason. Moderation.

It always amazes me the people who will rant about media causing this and that but then buy their child Grand Theft Auto or similar. For some reason people don't seem to attribute the same damage to games that they do films. I know people who won't let their children watch 15's (because they are not old enough) but happily let the kids play Max Payne, Grand Theft Auto, hitman and so on. Games cause more damage than films in as much as they are absorbing and designed to make you feel that it is you doing it (least most games are).

Having said that Media is not solely responsible, if people were more responsible about what they let their kids watch there would be less issues, it certainly wouldn't rule the issues out but would reduce them.

An update on the Original post I had no less than three run ins with them today, but on the fourth occassion they apologised for it all and said it wouldn't happen again! There is some hope after all, although my mouth is still dropped in amazement

Maybe there is sanity buried in the heart of every villain.
Or maybe they got religion (I hope not, because religion is historically the main cause of persecution, genocide and murder).
Or maybe they just woke up (rare, but it does happen).
Anyway, let's hope it's a permanent "road to damascus" enlightenment.

The sig between the asterisks is so cool that only REALLY COOL people can even see it!

>>
An update on the Original post I had no less than three run ins with them today, but on the fourth occassion they apologised for it all and said it wouldn't happen again! There is some hope after all, although my mouth is still dropped in amazement
>>

hmmmm, lets not get to comfortable though ...

Being somewhat of a synic ... it makes me think of a mate i used to half know ... a inner city pub friend, could this bloke drink (you bet). He liked to open his wallet too --- always full of bills which were dutifully flashed, and buy really expensive drinks (grin). He was a house painter and there was lots of work around for painters at the time. He also employed other people, and so was a bit of a benifactor in that regard. Aside from beinga sitting duck as well. In fact, he was known as "Johnny Painter" too (grin). He got bailed up by three blokes one night, that he had been drinking with earlier in the night (2am closing i think), at another pub down the road ... with a sawn off .22 rifle (grin). I shouldn't really grin, but when he was telling us about it, it couldn't be helped but have a comical element to it. It seemed he was the only person around the whole place that didn't know it was bound to happen eventually ...

A few weeks later they saw him in the same other pub, said sorry, and bought him a drink (grin). They didn't give him his cash back though ... i wasn't there but i can bet they were of the ... very relaxed easy going type. His own fault, and he could obviously afford it... but... The area was well known for this kinda thing and with a very high unemployment rate a person should have known better. High rents too. Point -=- i think the point is --- even so, don't let the guard down. They could just be trying to get familiarity. That is, looking for an angle of some kind. Nice people don't pull knives on other people in the first place. And only fools do who think it's going to be just accepted as an empty threat. Little knives go straight to the heart. Very "serious" indeed.

True enough, and the gaurd certainly isn't being let down, its just nice to know that when they come in they are looking to buy soft drinks and not to cause trouble. Still wary of them and for good reason as well really.
Interestingly the copper who spoke to me mentioned that they are forever having prolems with kids from there (not surprising and not the interesting bit ) but whenever they pursue a prosecution of anyone from there the defence always pulls out what is called a D2 defence, which basically states that as these kids are Disabled (they all have learning or behaviour difficulties, some have both) they are not fully responsible for their acts and so the person being prosecuted usually gets let off the hook. Sounds odd to me really given that difficulties or not a crime is still a crime - although i disagree with several laws (especially the one making DeCSS illegal) the fact remains the law is the law - and so should be punishable either way. I suppose it depends on the crime and also on the leniancy of the Magistrates though.

A friend of mine got mugged last year by a well known local thug (16yrs old). The police did nothing about it. To cut a long story short my freind saw this kid mug a woman in the street the other day and he was running down the street TOWARDS my friend (who was stood waiting for the bus), seeing the oppertunity for some "social justice" he tripped the thug up whilst he was running past. Result was that the kid lost all of his front teeth on the pavement (6 in total I think) and was knicked.

Sounds good to me although potentially your mate could be done for it, I dare sya the CPS would say that its not in the public interest. Funny how life works out sometimes, I remember seeing someone nicking a car when i was younger, a few months later I stepped of the kerb to cross the road, a car swerved to avoid me and hit a lamppost and it was the same guy, except that this time it was his car and the insurance company refused to pay out on the basis he had had a joint or two before driving

I came online to delete that post (grin). On reflection it seemed quite unnecessary, and so wasn't a contribution. But as its' been post posted i guess it will have to stay ... hmmmm

In any case, thats all the point i was trying to make there, and i'm sure it didn't need any frivolous illustration.. Broader issues are broader issues ... that effects how a person acts within that context. Politics, social outlooks. How an employer acts and likewise how an employee acts.

But a person doesn't pull a knife then expect to go up to the person later and just say sorry about that mate. It's a lethal weapon and the person needs to be treated in that context. Not like it's some sought of toy, or a scene out of some movie ....

Disabled hmmmm, intellectually .... makes it more difficult. Do they realise the significance ... even more reason for a heavy response.

I wouldn't give the buggers an inch. The cop refers to the "place" and not the actual people concerned hmmmm, cops can be tricky buggers, definitely smarter than they look in spite of the silly hats .

I agree with all the immediate above. The little #$#$s need to learn. I really wouldn't look at things just going tra - la -la on it' merry way with them though.

As they have actually gotten away with it, thats probably the only insight that they have learned out of the whole thing. So i would expect that knowing they can get away with it they will likely try it again some time.... Consider -=- letting them know just what to expect, just so they wont have any doubts, so to speak.

Sorry again for the stupid post above. I really shouldn't have dropped that ... no excuses