Transgender activists unable to refute right-wing Minnesota Ads

December 2, 2014

GLBT and liberal media pundits scrambled today to refute an ad sponsored by the right-wing Child Protection League group, but found themselves unable to produce a single point of contention. The paid ads were published in multiple Minnesota newspapers (Star Tribune, St. Cloud Times, Duluth News Tribune, among others) yesterday and claimed that the proposed transgender policy for student athletes will:

Allow boys and young men to compete against girls and young women for limited slots on female sports team rosters.

Allow boys and young men to compete “as females” on girls and young women’s sports teams based on nothing but declared “gender feelings”.

Allow boys and young men to access girls and young women’s school showers and locker rooms previously sex-segregated to protect the privacy of girls and young women from vulnerability in areas of public nudity.

Unfortunately for transgender advocates, all of the claims in the ads are true. These are exactly the desired effects of the proposed policy. In fact, these are the outcomes the proposed policy is designed to achieve. Multiple liberal news outlets and writers are calling the right-wing ads “misleading” but not a single one has produced a statement outlining why. Because they can’t.

Media Matters calls the ads “misleading” (six times), and “false”, but fails to explain why, instead calling the ads “hurtful” (to the feelings of males), “based in ignorance” (although they don’t explain why), and “fear-based” (of what, they do not say). The total lack of rebuttal is remarkable… unless you read the policy, which actually does allow male students to do all the things the ad states.

OutFront Minnesota, the GLBT lobbying group accuses the ads of “spreading misinformation and fear” but offers no correction or rebuttal (because there isn’t one). Instead they frame the ads as “attacking transgender youth”. Presumably they mean transgender MALE youth, because forcing transgender FEMALES to compete against male-bodied persons -or to choose between their transgender identification and their participation in female sports- is the result of this policy. The policy under debate broadens rights for males only, and decreases the rights of all females, including those who identify as “transgender”.

The so-called “LGBT Sports Coalition”, a nebulous Nike, Inc. funded organization “composed of thirty organizations and individuals” helmed by transgender “male lesbian” and ESPN reporter Christina (Chris) Kahrl was quoted in the New York Daily News calling the ads “controversial” “hateful” “fear-mongering” and “pushing out false facts” but again failed to present a rebuttal to the accurate claims made in the ad.

(Quote: “athletes like Venus and Serena Williams, Brittney Greiner and Layshia Clarendon have blazed their own trails, finding success and stardom by simply expressing themselves and their creativity with every thread of clothing they wear.

Stereotype dictates that shot putters be massive, masculine athletes – something out of a Hans and Frans sketch. The women in the sport are overweight, wear short, “butch” haircuts and have sweatpants permanently attached to their hips.”)

Ugh! Homophobic and sexist! What are you thinking ESPN and Nike?!

NBC Sports writer Aaron Gleeman wrote that the ads were “misleading, bigoted” on Twitter but was unable to articulate why. I asked him myself. Several transgender activists responded that biological sex should be determined by hormone usage, but medication is not a factor, or even mentioned in the proposed juvenile athlete policy. Which I guess means that even transgenders reject this policy. And why would trans activists think it would be a good idea for kids to be pressured to take unnecessary medication as a qualification to play school sports? One transgender activist even tried to convince me that sexually dimorphic reproduction in mammals, including humans, is a myth. Oh my!

Lesbians and Feminists obviously don’t support the anti-gay and anti-woman agenda of the right wing, but we can certainly spot a sexist, lesbophobic policy designed to infringe on the rights of girls and young women when we see one. One designed to erode the rights of female student athletes, including females who “identify as transgender” (Title IX already allows female athletes to compete in male sports if they qualify, regardless of “gender feels”). This policy does nothing but restrict their right to compete.

Lesbians and Feminists and those who support us can also spot the Nike-funded ESPN-style sexism of a policy that limits participation in women’s sports by adherence to what is now apparently about to be state-sanctioned sex stereotypes.

It seems the simple solution – and one that is fair for females as well as males- is to prohibit discrimination against transgender student athletes who wish to compete in sports. That is to say, for example, that males who “identify as” transgender should not be kicked off of the football team because they have long hair or paint their nails or believe that folks have a “mental gender”. Female athletes should not be forced off female teams because they reject the female “sex role”. Not only is that a progressive, feminist view, but it allows all students to compete equally and fairly. Including the female ones.

Reblogged this on There Are So Many Things Wrong With This and commented:
Every time I read about the political right making more sense than liberals I think of the old line “Politics makes for strange bedfellows.” Except that sounds kinda liberal to me.

“Every time I read about the political right making more sense than liberals … ”

Yes. Because making more sense on this particular issue isn’t difficult when words are used, precisely, to refer to and to discuss material reality.

Liberals have been beating up and murdering language for a long time now. Whatever stupid, reactionary and oppressive ideas the political right has about what female people are for, they still know that being female is a biological fact. Generally speaking, anyway. There are those on the right who embrace transgenderism as a cure for homosexuality, real or perceived.

Oh, what a tangled web.

But, this is pretty clear: the left won’t stop until “female” is (completely) dead and its corpse replaced by a metaphysical/stereotypical “feminine-identified subject.” No body, no crime.

Right now, we resisters are called “bigots.” How long before “cis-bigotry” will be upgraded to “apostasy” or “witchcraft”? Not that they’ll use those words! That would be unprogressive. They’ll make up new ones that mean the same thing.

Just got beat up for two hours on a “liberal” “rational” blog over this issue. The chants of “TRANSPHOBE! TRANSPHOBE! BAN THE TRANSPHOBE! were overwhelming, and I finally had to give up. It sure felt like a witch hunt. I was also called an “eliminationist” and, of course, a TERF. The dudes and the handmaidens are vicious and irrational. It was also like trying to argue with creationists, except creationists aren’t so nasty.

My hope is that someone was quietly reading what I had to say and it got them thinking…

What I meant by it’s like trying to argue with creationists is that actual facts don’t matter to them, and their rhetoric is sneaky and dishonest. They seem to be deliberately putting their brains on hold.

Trans supporters don’t ever seem to question why the picture on that poster is of a female, not a male who lost a position to a transgender female. We know that never happens, and deep down, they have to know why males showering with females is more of a threat than the other way around, but lalala biology isn’t real.

Gender isn’t really based on biological parts so much as it is on any given societies standards and criteria as to what makes a man or a woman, so that is a non issue. I think, and I speak as a classical liberal here, that modern liberals are trying to conflate various issues so as to avoid giving an explanation for why they think what they do.

I am for individuals rights. If a person feels he or she isn’t what correlates to their body parts, then that is their business and they can do as they please. However, when we overstep that puberty and say that another person must allow for them to do as they please, even in the presence of those not comfortable, then we have an issue. The best example is the shower issue, simply because society isn’t prepared to handle such a thing. I mean hell, you can’t even have a woman breastfeeding in public without people freaking out about Boobies. Imagine a penis in the girl’s shower room?

Now, if the former man had a sex operation and looked liked the other girls, then I see no issue.

What on earth are you talking about? Sex is based on biological parts, as it has always been, across all societies. Gender are the (culturally variable) roles expected of the sexes to perform based on those body parts. While I firmly believe that gender -should be- unconnected from biology(ie, eliminated), the fact is you cannot have a gender role without a sex. Different sexed people are socialized into a different gender role. So of course gender is based on biological parts- what do you think happens, a parent draws a gender from a hat to decide how to raise their kid?

If a person wants to act in a way not stereotypically associated with their sex, they should have the right to do so- I think that’s what you mean, and I agree. A person who feels he or she isn’t what correlates to their body parts has a mental illness akin to anorexia. A man is never a former man, a man is always a man, and no matter how much a constructed labia may “look like” a girl’s, he is not a girl. Nor is he a woman.

Read the proposed policy yourself. The proposed policy would in fact allow biological male adolescents to compete against female students. Once a male starts puberty, he is going to have an ENORMOUS physical advantage over a female. I don’t give a rat’s patootie how he “identifies”. He is going to have a physical advantage over a female athlete. It’s nothing more simple biology and common sense.

Why do they include disorders of sexual development (intersex) in with transgender? Intersex medical conditions are NOT the same as the culturally defined term “transgender”.

“If the administration of a member school is notified, in writing, by a student, the student’s parent(s)/legal guardian(s) that a student has a different gender identity than listed on the student’s school registration records or birth certificate and that the student wishes to participate in athletics in a manner consistent with their gender identity as provided by state statutes and federal law, schools must review the following as each participation determination is made.

• Gender identity used for school registration records.
• Documentation from medical personnel, acting within their scope of licensure, that the individual has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria and is receiving appropriate clinical treatment.”

What exactly is “appropriate clinical treatment” and how is it “documented”? How long do adolescent boys have to be in “appropriate clinical treatment”? A diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” in and of itself doesn’t mean anything. People can find online “gender therapists” who will do Skype therapy for $100 or so. There is no requirement that adolescent males have to be on puberty suppressing drugs or hormones. So, a 6’2″ 180 lb. teenage boy sees a therapists a couple of times because he is confused about his “gender identity”. He gets to play on the girl’s basketball team or softball team and use their locker room and shower.

Unlike biological sex which is immutable, “gender identity” can and does change. As to “gender dysphoria”, no one can predict with certainty how any child will feel when he or she is twenty or thirty years old.

Trans activists are apparently passing around the original draft of the policy, which did have medical hormone requirements similar to the IOC policies. Those were removed in the latest (10/2/2014) policy draft, which is linked in this post.

is apparently back in an amnesic phase (or cured of one?? lol) and having been fired from his ABC News job for batshittery is now an Advovate.com writer. (HA!)

Batshit Dawn Ennis published a strange disjointed article on these Ads on the Advocate today where he uses the old draft of the proposed policy, the one with the hormone requirements that trans activists demanded be removed. He still does nothing to refute the claims of the Ads though. Just calls them “bigoted”.

So crazy-ass fetishist Don Ennis is now writing for the Advocate. I also see that in the comments section of that Advocate article, a tranny is allowed – applauded, even – when he refers to a born woman by the c-word. Nice! Way to create a “safe space” for your female readers, Advocate! I guess it’s good to know how little we matter to you, though.

Fuck you, Advocate. FUCK YOU. You advocate for no one now except men who hate women. I stopped buying this rag many years ago, and I’m so glad I did.

VC-they will call them lesbians and crow about how progressive it is that 2 girls can have a baby. Then they will say that this could happen to teen because they are open minded, unlike old farts, and the manipulation of this generation will continue.

It is more likely girls will attend school until their period starts and they may want to be home schooled, or change schools if there is a predatory boy at that school making girls uncomfortable. The period starting makes you a target, everything from ruining underwear to the pads you use[reg, maxi, generic boat, waded up paper- bad enough infront of girls, but this would make poor women not want to expose this side of themselves to men so early on…even though there are middle age men with a fetish to see these things that think it is everyman’s right to be entertained by female bodily functions-on demand..and some men think it should start when they are boys.

The state should pay for the females’ transportation to another school, or the parents should get to sue the school board for putting their child at risk of sexual assault, [I know there are young guys, [in my own family at one point] that wouldn’t resist to use this to see naked females their age, or take a look at a girl dressing they got a crush for, or follow her into the restroom and all around one day in drag doing an bad interpretation of a female for fun-, so it is a matter of ‘when’ it happens].

From the current info, kids that have gender issues do NOT grow up to be trans as adults in the vast majority of cases. So I think it’s fair to predict the future for these kids- who knows what will happen to toddler transitioners that take mass quantities of drugs and see therapists hell bent on maintaining the trans lie.

@Gallus, I agree completely. This is the fair and honest thing to do, but it’s all about their belief that they are a “girl” despite having a male body, male genitalia, and an obvious physical advantage. Female athletes are being thrown under the bus all in the name insane political correctness.

This is what real progressive politics and fairness looks like instead of destroying female athletics.

“It seems the simple solution – and one that is fair for females as well as males- is to prohibit discrimination against transgender student athletes who wish to compete in sports. That is to say, for example, that males who “identify as” transgender should not be kicked off of the football team because they have long hair or paint their nails or believe that folks have a “mental gender”. Female athletes should not be forced off female teams because they reject the female “sex role”. Not only is that a progressive, feminist view, but it allows all students to compete equally and fairly. Including the female ones.”

Look at this photograph, and compare his height to the female athletes. There is no way in hell that this is fair. His “gender identity” can’t erase his male biology. If this is the future of “women’s” athletics, then women’s sports are all but destroyed. I hope these p.c. obsessed morons are pleased with themselves.

Similar to Ludwig shown in the photograph, there is nothing to prevent a male from playing on a boy’s team, and then decide that his “gender identity” means that he should be playing with girls. Ludwig played on a men’s team when he was younger before he “transitioned”. If he isn’t good enough to make the boy’s team, he can always claim “gender identity”.

On the Media Matters website, one commenter made this very wise observation – you can be inclusive without being stupid. Beside the very annoying trans poster who tries to dominate the discussion, there are people of obvious good will who don’t seem to understand the implications of the proposed law. Thy also seem to believe that teenage trans kids are all on puberty blockers and hormones. And as another poster points out, the proposed policy doesn’t require anything other than a boy deciding he “identifies” as a girl to get a place on a girl’s team, and into the shower. There’s at least one case of a heterosexual boy with a girlfriend doing just that.

They also describe 14 year old students as “middle-schoolers”, little kids with not much difference in size and strength between boys and girls. At this year’s Little League World Series, the winning Korean team had several players that were six feet tall and weighed over 170 pounds. The cutoff age for Little League is 13, and it’s strictly enforced. Not many people would be okay with their young daughters competing in contact sports with some hulking ‘girl identifying’ boy.

Fourteen year olds are not middle-schoolers. That’s the first year for high school for most kids. Unless, of course, the boy has been “red-shirted” which is becoming a big thing in some areas to delay starting boys in school by a year. Further, boys that age typically take a helluva growth spurt going into tenth grade and come back absolutely freaking huge. I’m looking at my own kid now who is only ten and he’s nearly tall as I am and I’m a tall woman. His hands are bigger than mine and he wears a larger shoe size. I repeat, he’s ten years old and nearly the same height as a full grown woman. No way would it be fair to have him compete against girls.

Fourteen yearold boys are getting their first hard-on’s watching girls, they start ‘looking to get laid’, cop a feel, look at naked girls at that age. My older brother raised three boys and had to put up with their schemes, even preventing a few. I am glad other parents have brought up the bullying girls’ issue. There is a reason the girls have privacy.

Girls are also getting their period around then and they don’t need the additional judgement by boys that feel entitled to go in and make fun of girls changing pads, big boobs, [under or over]weight issues -even if they can get past the fact a guy is allowed to stand in the shower with them naked in the first place like it is a normal thing, many girls will skip the shower and change in a toilet stall if there is any guy in there.

Where is their rights? [The actual ‘girls’.]

It is like some men that really hate women want to destroy young women s opportunities, or subject them to sexual assault before they are even adults. It is a type of abuse victim grooming.

That is what probably creeped out some parents. But guys that abandon their wives & children to suck dick and party, have no business telling other parents that take this seriously how to raise healthy children. [esp if they have woman issues that make them abusive to female children.]

Coming soon to a school district near you…coach decides all of the best males MUST be female and becomes State champion. Kids put up with the shame in order to be recognized as State champion. Upon graduation, become male again.

After all…no hormonal treatment required, it is all claimed identity fee-fees…

You KNOW it will happen if shit like that is not stopped in its tracks.

The current average age at which boys start puberty in the USA is 8.5 years old. Puberty typically lasts 3 years before the child is sexually mature. 11.5 year old boys do rape, do sexually assault, can impregnate.

Studies on internet pornography indicate boys are viewing it by age 10. Hard core, gonzo, sexual violence against women, streaming to their computers and smart phones. Video games enabling rape, battery, murder of female characters by these same boys is commonly available.

The most famous transgender girl Jazz Jennings, is now fourteen. I wonder, do puberty blockers prevent ‘her’ from getting an erection? Even pre-pubertal boys get them. Jazz spends a lot of time with her little girlfriends, practicing cheering, braiding their hair, doing their nails. Given adolescents’ curiosity, and their burgeoning horniness, it would quite the conundrum, and entirely possible, for ‘her’ to get one of them pregnant. Jazz isn’t on estrogen, and they haven’t snipped her balls off yet (will her idiot parents have a party when they do?).

When I was in Jr. High a girl played on the boys basketball team because there was no girls team and she kicked ass as both point and off guard. She was not permitted to play when the team went to state, so her parents sued the school district under title IX for a HS girls team, and she took us to state within 3 years of starting the program. She was the only seasoned player that 1st year, none of us had ever played competitively before. But there was just one problem when it came time for her to go on to college. Despite her incredible skill, dedication and athleticism, she never grew over 5 feet tall. She couldn’t compete in womens college basketball.

It really stunk that she wasn’t even considered for so much as a partial scholarship. If this one incredible athlete got passed over for a scholarship competing against actual females, how many girls will take a back seat to gendersick males? I was a poor athlete, but had the privilege of playing sports with and watching some incredible young women in JHS and HS. Their sports programs always took a back seat to the boys sports, but their dedication and sheer toughness was inspiring to see. Watching our star softball pitcher tough it out when she got nailed by a line drive and limp around with a bruise that covered her whole thigh was proof positive how tough we could all be. Those young women unflinchingly took the hit for the team, the school, to win. These gendersick boys set no example worth emulating. These will also be the ‘girls’ coaching much younger children in the peewee sports, barely supervised teen boys wearing pornsick ladyface coaching peewee girls, K-8 sports were often coached by HS girls in my community. These confused teenage boys have no business grooming young girls.

As a parent of a 15 year old boy, I’ve been thinking about gender bs an awful lot. Gallus, so glad you opened my eyes. My son is on a robotics team. Not a single girl on the team, despite some highly educated parents. Same was true in middle school. As a former teacher, I’m not surprised– by high school, most girls have been pushed out of “hard” sciences and engineering. I can count on my fingers the number of girls at the schools I taught who were enrolled in programming. To mitigate, there are a TON of scholarships for girls out there, especially for physics, engineering, etc. In this time where parents are scrambling to afford ridiculous college tuition, how long until those scholarships are granted to newly “trans” boys? It’s coming.

And what about the athletic scholarships available due to title IX? Because of football, scholarships for certain male sports are almost nonexistent. Even an average male cross country runner beats the times of most females, and with the advantages of larger size and more upper body strength, most males would out pace almost any female crew team member. Both of these sports have scholarships available for female, but rarely (and no full rides) for males. It’s only a matter of time before a cynical student, parent or coach takes advantage of this. But even if that didn’t happen , if only the males who have been brainwashed into the trans delusion take these scholarships, the people they were intended for are screwed.

Ahahahaha. That policy could only be written by someone who has let ideology blind them to biology.

I was once slightly good at rugby (no, not “touch rugby” the real thing). When I was 10 and 11 I played full contact rugby with mixed teams. After 11 I wasn’t allowed to play rugby versus boys. This wasn’t because of evil, this was because I stopped growing at 11 and the boys rapidly outpaced me in speed and size. No matter what I’d felt about my “gender”, it wouldn’t have changed the fact I was seven stone and 5 feet tall. Or that I had visibly gone through puberty.

Even if I had felt very strongly I was a man, I couldn’t have played on a male rugby team. In reverse the picture’s the same. If you’re built like a man, even if you feel like you’re really a woman, you don’t belong in a female team. If someone was 25 and six foot tall, they wouldn’t belong in a gymnastics team where the oldest performer was 14 and stood 4’6.

It amazes me this actually needs pointed out. Men are both physically stronger and faster than women, as a general rule. Yeah, a big fast teenage boy might well be the star of a women’s team, but it doesn’t change that he’s in the wrong place, just as I would have been if I’d insisted on a place in the boys’ rugby squad – my deep internal feelings about gender notwithstanding.

It’s absolutely true that males have a physical advantage over females. This is important–because girls are, right this moment, being pushed aside and put in harm’s way–but this is still not the crux of the matter.

Because, it wouldn’t matter if the boy-who-feels-like-girl is a little wisp of boy, perhaps even shorter and lighter than his female teammates and competitors. A non-threatening wisp of a boy is no more female than the hideous and sociopathic Fallon Fox. A lie is a lie, and its threat is on a continuum.

The problem is the dehumanization of girls and women which ensures they will always be easily pushed aside and put in harm’s way. Any ideology or movement that claims that female is anything but born-flesh-and-blood human–that claims female can be manufactured in a laboratory, or conjured by thoughts and emotions in the mind, or located in a man’s brain, or slipped on like a costume–dehumanizes girls and women.

The crux, always, is that they are trying to define us in a way that makes us all but disappear. No females = no female liberation movement = no threat to male supremacy. But lots and lots of this nebulous, male-defined “femininity” to go around! Femininity to perform, enjoy, exploit, buy, sell and put to practical use.

They are trying to dispense with the troublesome female but keep the feminine goodies: autogynephilia, porn, prostitution, forced reproductive and domestic services, low-wage labour, etc.

And … on top of it, insult to injury, they want us to participate in our own disappearance by “choosing” or “identifying” with this shit.

Same old same old. But with “male lesbians” in stilettos leading the backlash against our assertions of female humanity. Evil can be banal but it’s also, just as often, plain-ol’ big-time creepy-bizarro right on its face. My first experience of watching men impersonate femininity was on this kids’ show, and it gave me nightmares:

Reblogged this on naefearty and commented:
In case anyone thinks that this blog is just about me whining about one abusive individual, please take note of this.
It very clearly illustrates why the personal is political. The Transgenderist (political) agenda seeks to erase the rights of females, and sweep away what small gains made on the part of women and girls over the last 40 years. Here is just one example of how that works. Women are entitled to feel angry about that. Women have every right to be angry about what is happening to them in the personal and political sphere – in fact, these are indivisible. From the abandonment by “Womens services” and the therapeutic communitt of women being abused by men in dresses, to the dismantling of women’s sports, to the inclusion of males in locker rooms and other, necessary spaces where women are safe from men and accorded some dignity. This is the result of catering to male delusions, wants and fantasies. Speak out, women. Speak out for women.

I don’t understand this comment, and what it has to do with the question of girls being forced to compete with biological males, and the erosion of Title IX. Women should have been expecting males to want to play on softball teams? Girls should have been expecting boys to invade their locker rooms? And there are legions of boys who want to play on girls basketball teams? If you’re going to troll, please do everyone the courtesy of being coherent enough that people can figure out what you are saying.

It’s always nice to have a reminder that before the paid-to-be liberal types held up these guys as social justice heroes, they were just a troll brigade from 4chan that those same liberals used to point at radical feminists to dox and harass while keeping their hands clean.

I ask this because I knew a transgender guy – or as we used to call them, drag queens, back in the mid- late 80s. He admitted to me that as a kid, he got no attention from his selfish parents and he developed an intense desire to get attention from them (understandably). He was also quite effeminate. Long story short, he went through a lot, and came out as a somewhat elfin gay man. Not terribly effeminate, even.

Those whose “identities” are partly or solely wrapped up in sexual fetishism do seem to be exhibitionists. The single-minded focus on making everyone cater to their identities, especially when the MTF is a self-described “lesbian”, feels an awful lot like forcing innocent bystanders to participate in their sexual fantasies, a drive that’s very common among men.

I neglected to add that this acquaintance was very self-aware about his obsessive need for attention. He was a drag performer back in the day and could switch his drag persona off and on at will, although as I said he was always effeminate. I thought of this when I read Bailey’s book.

I think that the one thing that autogynephiles and effeminate trannies have in common is the exhibitionism.

Here’s a prime example. It’s just a girl dressed as a guy. But instead of just dressing as a guy, she’s got to announce it to the world, and her parents do, too. I think in this case the exhibitionism is a family trait.

I would like to add one more thing to the above. The announcement went viral, attracting 4,000 retweets, etc. This is not a way to gauge true public opinion. The twitterverse is a self-selected group of fanatics. I believe with all my heart that the majority of the human race thinks that all of this is madness. Live and let live. But facts are facts.

My sympathies to the parents in Minnesota and I hope they win their fight against the madness, but that’s not the end of it by a long shot.

Hi GG: Interesting theory about crossdressing and exhibitionism. I’ve noticed that “drag queens” tend to wear ostentatious clothes that even most born-women would avoid: e.g. lots of sequins. You don’t tend to see crossdressers interested in donning plain burkas.

I’m trans and I don’t see how requiring male-bodied athletes to play together is in any way attacking a trans person’s preferred identity. So you’re a male-bodied person who happens to identify and expresses yourself as female, and you play on the sport team designated for other male-bodied people (the majority of whom identify as male), big deal. I think that would actually be really cool. To see a transgirl accepting the reality of their physical sex while still embracing their personal preferences and not shying away from either the need for sex-segregation in athletics or their right to express themselves in a way that makes them happy. Even if she’s on hormones, I think that would actually make it even cooler. Even though she may be at a minor disadvantage to some of her other teammates and opponents, she still respects her female-bodied peer’s right to designate and maintain boundaries based on physical sex. As long as the transgirl gets a private shower, I really don’t see anything wrong with it.

I seem to recall there was a tranny volleyball team in one of the Asian countries that competed against other males…and actually tended to do well. Admittedly too lazy to look it up for more details right now though…

Yes, they had a Lesbian coach and a straight-het guy on the team. At the end of the movie, they show what they look like in real life and show a few televised clips from their games. The movie is entertainers playing them-they don’t look like that, they are real guys from the local gay community that put together a team. They competed against local men’s teams and did very well. Female hormones did not make men on this team weak..just sayin’

” So you’re a male-bodied person who happens to identify and expresses yourself as female..” Except FAIL, sex is female, you can’t ‘express yourself’ as female if you’re male. You can express yourself however you want, but that has ZERO to do with being female.

So what are we left with. A boys team for MALES, however they express themselves, or whatever makeup or hormones or whatever. Because they’re still (and always will be) MALE. And they don’t get to appropriate the name ‘girl’, or claim to be female, or get to use a pronoun that doesn’t match their sex. But they are totally free to wear all the skirts they want………………..

Except this will NEVER work, because they DON’T want the right to be a boy and wear skirts, they want the right to get everyone else to pretend they are a girl.

“As long as the transgirl gets a private shower..” Why, when they are DEMANDING that girls don’t? What is wrong with all the male-bodied persons showering together as they always have?

These posts try to sound placatory, yet despite the supposed politeness and reasonableness, still FAIL because they still see ‘female’ as something you can identify as, or as a personal preference, or as a personal preference that in some way has to be ‘aligned’ with sex. If there were no gender, there would be nothing to trans, and you’d just have hairy boys in trousers versus boys who pluck and wears skirts and make-up, but all boys, whatever their ‘preferences’ for clothing or adornment. Who would leave the girls changing rooms and girls teams ALONE…………………..

A person can behave how they want to as long as they are not hurting anyone. A trans person who says to themselves and to others “I am male, but I still identify as female” is not hurting anyone because that is a statement of reality. They literally identify as female because they consistently make the overt verbal response “I am female” which is the literal definition of the term “identify”, and they are literally male because they were born with a Y chromosome and functioning male genitalia. However, a trans person who says to themselves and to others “My body is female BECAUSE I identify as female” is wrong and is doing potential harm to themselves and to others because identification is a behavior, not a mental or cognitive truth, and so there is no way for a person’s identification as female to in any ways correlate with their body being female unless the person is in fact biologically female.

I agree that wearing certain clothes, identifying a certain way, behaving a certain way, liking certain pronouns, and wearing makeup or cutting your hair a certain way are not indication of a person being trans. (I consider all of these things to be either conditioned behaviors or conditioned reinforcing stimuli) Any person, male or female, can wear what they want and identify or behave how they like without being trans. What makes a person trans is the physical covert aversive environmental stimuli associated with the function and appearance of that person’s body (specifically the function and appearance of their sexual characteristics). If a person takes hormones, has surgery, and/or receives regular clinical therapy to alleviate the aversiveness of those aversive stimuli, then that person is trans.

If a male person is trans, meaning they have physically altered their body’s sexual characteristics, then they are at an increased risk of being victim to aggressive (and potentially sexual) male violence. Because of this risk, the person should be allowed private space for showering if the person requests it. Female trans people who identify as male should not be showering with male people either because of the risk of aggressive (and potentially sexual) male violence. As far as I am aware, however, they are not at risk from other females, and there is no reason to believe that female-bodied trans people will be any risk to their other female-bodied peers. However, if a female-bodied trans person requests a private shower then they should also be provided it for the sake of accommodation and fairness, but their need for privacy from their fellow females is different from a male-bodied trans person’s need for privacy from other males because it does not involve the potential risk of male violence.

I don’t appreciate being called placatory. If you are trying to find fault with my personal views on the issue simply because you dislike trans people, then there is nothing I can do to help it because I am in fact trans. I think that people should be allowed to behave whatever way makes them happy as long as that behavior is not injuring or negatively impacting others.

Other than being treated for being trans, what does it mean to identify as the opposite sex? In all honesty, I could more easily accept wanting to adopt certain clothing, behaviors, pronouns, etc than the idea that there is some internal ‘maleness’ or ‘femaleness’. The former just indicates a desire to be seen as the opposite sex by society, and so long as there is a realistic sense of one’s biological sex, it’s as acceptable to me as following a different religion. You seem like a nice person, so I’m only trying to understand how you believe a person ends up realizing themselves as trans- what causes it?

As a behaviorist I consider identification to be an observable physical response. When a person says “I am female” that is a person identifying as female. Just like if I said “I am Tilijay” then I am identifying as tilijay. Identification is a learned/conditioned behavior. As with all verbal behavior it starts out overt (empirically observable) and can develop into covert (only observable by the person performing the behavior, as in when a person talks to themself).

What makes a person trans is the discomfort associated with the function and appearance of one’s physical sexual characteristics, which often develops into a verbally expressed desire to change those characteristics.

The reason, I think, that so many trans people identify as the opposite sex is because at a young age they feel discomfort regarding their sexual characteristics, learn about the differences between themself and and the opposite sex, and begin identifying as the opposite sex (saying “I’m a girl too”) as a product of erroneous stimulus equivalency. On the other hand I think there are also a lot of gender nonconforming boys/girls who simply like stuff that is typically girly/boyish and also begin identifying as female/male (saying “I’m a girl”) due to erroneous stimulus equivalence as well since girly things are so frequently paired with the verbal response “that is for girls” and boysih things are so often paired with the response “that is for boys”.

Then because these gender nonconforming children are now identifying as the opposite sex (which is also very common for trans individuals), they are immediately shoehorned into the trans narrative, even if they never felt or expressed any of the discomfort associated with their physical sexual characteristics. In their case, transition would most likely be sought for the sake of aesthetics, and they probably would not choose to have bottom surgery (because they are not uncomfortable with their genitals). Wheras their trans peers will take hormones because it assists with the discomfort associated with the sexual characteristics, and they will choose surgery for the same reasons.

I do not believe in internal maleness or femaleness. Being female and male is correlated to the function of one’s body, and as it stands now, absolute physical sex cannot be changed. Certain physical sexual characteristics can be changed however, which is why trans people are called transSEXuals, and they process of transition is called Sex-change, because they transition their sexual characteristics (they change their sexual characteristics). Identifying as the oppostie sex is a product of a person’s learning and developmental history, and is not motivated by any cognitive or mental structure. There is no male brain and there is no female brain (except for distringuishing the differences attributable to lifelong hormone exposure) and biological determinism is FALSE unless it is talking about genetic disorders (like certain cancers, rare diseases, and alcoholic predisposition).

As for why a person is trans, why they feel covert aversive stimuli associated with the function and appearance of their sexual characteristics?? I think there are more than one factor that determines that. I consider the vast majority of sexual behavior and orientation to be learned behavior, but faced with the scientific evidence of siblings being a higher likelihood of being gay if one of their siblings is also gay, I am beginning to think there may be a potential genetic predisposition affecting the unconditioned reinforcing value of sexual stimuli. There may also be similar forms of predisposition involving the incidence of trans people, but I have no idea. For now, I consider it mostly to be conditoned and not innate, but I remain openminded of the possibility of unconditioned reinforcers associated with sexual response and discomfort or pleasure associated with that response.

“Except this will NEVER work, because they DON’T want the right to be a boy and wear skirts, they want the right to get everyone else to pretend they are a girl.”

This sums up the trans movement. Most people think it’s about fixing your body, or about being free to express yourself however you want – but that doesn’t explain the rage at women for saying “vaginas are female organs”, the rage at lesbians who won’t suck their dicks, the rage at anyone who lets slip a wrong pronoun. They are demanding something no other minority group has asked for, much less gotten – the right to dictate how everyone else thinks about them.

“A person can behave how they want to as long as they are not hurting anyone. A trans person who says to themselves and to others “I am male, but I still identify as female” is not hurting anyone because that is a statement of reality. ”

It is a statement of their subjective view of reality. The problem arises when others say – you’re NOT female, however you identify, in fact as a female I find the whole concept of you identifying as female as oppressive……and NO identifying as female WON’T get you into the ladies loo or changing room.

Except we AREN’T allowed to say the latter, and we are supposed to ‘respect’ their delusional gender identity. Because trans campaigned for that to be so…………..

‘Identifying as female’ and acting on that belief by demanding to be called she and demanding access to the ladies IS hurting someone — all the women, by not allowing us to react appropriately when an obvious male (predator or trans) enters a sex-restricted area. By invading OUR privacy. By saying that our need for privacy DOESN’T COUNT. And of course, by saying that our objections to all this don’t count either, are not ‘hurt’.

Really, just imagine for ONE SECOND what the reaction would be if a white dude said:

I don’t demand anything from anyone. I don’t force men to date me if they aren’t into it, I don’t force women to accept me into their private spaces, and I don’t force anyone to call me by my preferred pronouns. The vast majority of the time people just don’t know that I’m trans so the issue doesn’t even come up, and if a person changes the way they speak to me or about me after learning that I’m trans it will sometimes throw me off, but I’m not going to freak out about it. I’m not saying there aren’t trans people who do make demands of others, because there are lots. But not everyone is an insufferable asshole. If you use male pronouns to refer to me, it will be punishing to me (because those words have developed into conditioned aversive stimuli for me), but that’s my problem not yours.

As for the “I’m white, but I identify as black” situation, as if no one has ever used that tired old hypothetical before. I gotta say that I’ve actually met people who say this. Young white men who dress like gang members and use the N word to describe themselves all the time. And as much as I or anyone else may try to correct them on their behavior, it most likely won’t do much good because the environmental contingencies maintaining the behavior will still be firmly in place (their peers, etc.)

I am a radical behaviorist and I think that without a doubt a person’s behavior can be intervened upon through behavioral modification and a trans person can be taught to stop identifying (and by identify I mean literally say “I am female”) as the opposite sex. You could get a person to stop doing anything, and even teach them to act like, dress like, and generally behave like a typical member of their sex. I don’t think it would be ethical, since that involves a level of control over another person’s autonomy that I feel would be grossly inappropriate, but it could be done (and it as been done). But when it comes to alleviating covert aversive stimuli involving the function and appearance of a person’s physical sexual characteristics, I do not think it would be even nearly as simple to resolve (if even possible at all). You can teach a trans person to engage in new behaviors that help to distract or alleviate their discomfort, but it’s not going to get rid of it.

If I wasn’t able to transition I would have killed myself, and that is the barebones absolute truth. This may not be the case for every trans person, but it was for me. People may band together and force behavioral therapy on me to change the way I identify or the way I dress, etc. But as long as I’m still able to physically transition I think I would still be okay. The fact is, my identity is a product of my learning history, not a soul or an innate deterministic construct, it has been conditioned over 25 years of my interaction with my environment. If people in this world feel they have a right and/or obligation to take that away from me, they can try their best do it, but don’t expect it to be an easy task.

Oh, the pretendbian who works for ESPN is a misogynist who hates real lesbians. What a surprise!

I wish more people would break out of the brainwashing of political correctness and realize that destroying women’s sports is not progressive. For all the claims that these ads are “misleading”, there are no rebuttals because what the ads say are true. Any boy can identify his way onto the female team with this proposal and take away scholarships set up for female athletes, hormones and surgery or not. (Not that I think that teenage boys or girls should be taking these dangerous drugs and getting plastic surgery in an effort to solve any psychological problems or discomfort with gender that they have, especially if they’re underage.)

Thanks liberals for denying and erasing females and saying that we are just figments of men and boys imaginations. Shit like this is why I just tell people I’m a lesbian/radical feminist because I don’t want to be associated with this catering to male feels and denying reality crap.

What you suggested is the truly progressive solution. No athlete, female or male, should be discriminated against for not following sex roles.

Oh, and I’m not surprised that they tried to claim that biological sex doesn’t exist, Gallus Mag. Didn’t you know that sexual dimorphism is a cissexist conspiracy! (I’m being sarcastic. That quote is from never-obey on tumblr. She’s awesome.)

Yes, trans IS like a religion, with all the paraphenalia and pretense and lies to manipulate people, which is why I coined “transcult.” Religions are cults.

No more rights should allowed than any other group who make up stories about themselves. Like if there’s a group of men who work as Santa Claus but then year round stay dressed up and insist they are. But the trans game is far worse.

The problem with the trans religion is that they damage women and Lesbians by association. Most groups previously supporting Lesbians will identify as “LGBTQI” and increasingly when there is a public forum, the token “Lesbian” is a man. No real Lesbians allowed.

Our identity and existence and history are being taken over bit by bit.

This religion is focused on the eradication of all Lesbians and then all women.

The injustice of it is upsetting too, in that we know that no other oppressed people would be expected to accept to not only accept their oppressor stealing their identity but that they are in power positions in every aspect of our community. IAnd like many parasites, they get their victims to support them in victimizing others.

It is absolutely right wing for girls to lose sports and safe restrooms and for women to lose everything we have gained through feminism, and for Lesbians to finally not be able to get away from the men who have been perving on us for years.

Yes, exactly! There is almost no “lesbian only” group and having one is considered bigotry. This cult absolutely does brainwash people; there are a ton of women taking crazy pills and supporting it and being violent towards women who don’t agree. There are even lesbians who buy this shit and feel the need to make up an excuse as to why they don’t like dick so they won’t be harassed, as if there is any shame in only wanting to be intimate with other females. (Oh and did you know that the only valid excuse for not having sex with a MTT is past sexual abuse? Otherwise you’re a bigot. Wisdom from the self-care after rape blog on tumblr.)

Then of course there’s straight and bi women who think they’re being sooo revolutionary by telling lesbians to examine why they don’t like dick and how dare they have this cissexist preference. They sound just like the people who did and still do claim that homosexuality is deviant behavior. They forgot that fucking men is exactly what society wants women to do and that excluding men from romantic relationships is considered a threat.

Oh, and yes these little queer cultists think that hetero men who have the money to get plastic surgery (and sometimes they don’t do that) are the real lesbians, because colonizing an oppressed group is so much work.

And yes, we are supposed to accept these men as our sisters and have sex with them so their feels will be validated. We are supposed allow them to claim that being female, being a woman (which means adult human female) is not a biological reality but an identity in some guy’s head. Oh, and females are not oppressed as a class and saying so makes you a terf.

There is no escape for women and especially lesbians from this madness, especially not for young women being brainwashed by pomo queer theory and the libfem “women’s” and gender studies class where any kind of radical, class analysis is not mentioned.

I 100% agree with your solution GT. I have no idea what this “Child Protection League” is about, but I give kudos to them for them 100% accurate ads in warning people about the truth of what MI is proposing. Gender is 100% biological and it has nothing to do with superficial stuff such as how one wears one hair or what clothing one chooses to wear. Gender does affect ones muscle mass, which is why separate male & female teams were developed. Biological males can call themselves whatever they want to, and dress however they want to, but they should not have the right to play on a team of biological females or to use their locker rooms.

I am completely accepting of bi, gay, lesbian, poly relationships. While I have lived my life as a het, i believe in kinsey’s scale and am more likely bi and think more people would be if society were more accepting and maybe people have feelings/attraction for the same sex but they are not quite strong enough to act on them or seek it out. That said i have a difficult time understanding the transgendered. you fall in love with the person on the inside, the outside shouldn’t matter. The outside (gender roles) or how you dress or present yourself is window dressing. Does it make someone a lesbian or trans because they have short hair and don’t like skirts? That’s ridiculous!

I am a big believer in self acceptance – the inside as well as the outside. I buy organic food, and believe in doing things naturally. I don’t like the trend of buying your kid plastic surgery ( anose or boob job ) as a teen. You should be accepting of the person you are. So I don’t understand why people want to have a sex change and take hormones. You shouldn’t alter yourself for anyone. Even those who might say”, you’re too butch why don’t you become a boy!” How do you even know you would like such a drastic and permanent change once it’s done. I’ve heard of those completely changing their sexual orientation afterward and / or changing their mind after they transition. Other articles on this site state that 40% of post op trans attempt suicide. Yet that statistic is trotted out by the trans advocates as proof that we have to accept them going through the surgery so they don’t kill themselves. What about the 90% that change their mind before they go through with it?

It’s noone’s business how you feel on the inside and what image more masculine or feminine you want to project. As a child i was not girly and played with cars and dinosaurs instead of dolls but i know I’m a woman. My son dresses up, paints his nails, dances, and even says he wants to be a girl when he and his sisters are pretending and playing dressup but he also hammers nails, plays in the mud, (his sisters did the same), plays with cars and trucks and complains when i don’t have boy things for him (in a basket of stuff from the $ store they can get for doing chores and practicing their music). He plays with cars, blocks and likes woodworking alot too. He also has a fascinations with snakes and picking up sticks and making them into swords. But because he likes to dress up in girls clothes and put on high heels that means he needs to be categorized as a trans? Lots of young boys do the same thing. But no one questions girls doing more male types of activities yet boys are if it’s remotely female. Or if they like pink. Hello, pink was actually considered a boy color until the 1940s. Blue was a girl color before that time. And then the fickle winds of fashion blew.
Whatever happened to gender roles don’t matter??? Girls and boys can do whatever they want?

I have a friend whose child is a transgendered boy – F2T. In middle school she came out as gay and later they changed pronouns. They tried to push their opinions of my son’s sexuality/ gender on us when he was 2. He’s now 4. My friend’s child’s (“His”) sister was always very girly but now seems lost in trying to compete for her parents attention in their zealous support of their “son”. Making herself look more butch to get attention away from her “brother”. I don’t agree with bigotry towards trans persons or her son but my friend’s attitude is so hostile towards everyone else that I can’t be around her anymore. She expects people to freak out and acts extremely prickly because of it. I could not refer to my own daughters as girls, she thought I was referring to her children and chastised me for the gender reference. She does not know my personal views on the subject because it or her own feelings on her journey to acceptance were never open for discussion. So I’ve had to let the relationship go because i don’t like constantly walking on eggshells.

It is child abuse to think that people will force children to take puberty blockers and cross sex drugs! But many won’t see it that way they just think all the new acceptance / political correctness is on the same wavelength as tolerance for gays. To think that my child could be subject to some school counselor’s “diagnosis” of gid because he doesn’t like football or something and then doctors forcing stuff on them is insane. Not to mention all the side effects on your long term health. I would much rather have him grow up to be gay or bi.

I’m sure there will be cases of “you’ll lose custody of your child because you are not doing what is needed medically”. They’ve claimed medical negligence with parents in lots of other cases. It’s just a matter of time.

Your brain does not develop until your mid 20s. That is a fact. It is also known that if you get addicted to drugs of any kind around age16, then the brain stops developing and you still continue to do the risky immature behaviors of a teen. And to think people are advocating for 10 yr olds to take puberty blockers? Because that’s when girls go through puberty. My mother’s generation was 16. Now the average age of first menses or initial breast development is 8. Yes, 8; 7 for African-Americans.

I can totally see how the LGB movement is being co-opted by the trans movement. It’s anti gay but people don’t see that. Again they think it just goes along with being tolerant of gays. And in many states where gay marriage is illegal, it’s perfectly legal if one of you has undergone a sex change!

This trend is the result of a confluence of factors in society – political correct tolerance, permissive parents on one end, gender conforming homophobic parents at the other end of the spectrum, and the trans movement co-opting the LGB movement. Parents need to guide children not force a gender role either way. They are also misled by the medical establishment. I don’t think the parents or children are fully informed about the side effects and long term health implications. It’s deemed safe, like vasectomy is (it’s not up to 30% have major complications afterwards from excruciating pain to literally blowing a gasket and ending up with sperm in your bloodstream and resultant auto-immune disorders afterward). Apparently complications occur frequently in sex reassignment surgery as well but are patients truly well informed?

While I normally don’t agree with right wing republicans I have to agree with the campaign and poster although not for the same reasons. While yes it is disconcerting that a m2t could be in the same lockerroom as your daughter, I have other concerns. Transpersons should not use the same bathroom however much they feel that they are that gender. They shouldn’t for their own safety. What about the F2T that gets caught in the restroom by some male bullies? Can anyone say rape? And girls can be just as mean in a girls’ bathroom. Secondly for years women have fought for title 9 funding for a level playing field in sports. So no it’s going to be taken over by “boys”? What happens when said M2T gets the college scholarship that would have gone to an actual girl?

I’ve found that organizations that are serious about protections for trans people offer either completely gender neutral facilities (no sex segregation at all) or they offer a third option beyond men/women. There was a Rolling Stone article recently about gay, lesbian, and trans teens abandoned by their families and how those kids adapt, and, according to the article, shelters that have been set up specifically to help these kids are usually completely gender neutral. It takes away the “do you belong here” question when there’s no separation or when trans people can use an alternative option.

The fact of the matter is that allowing a non-stealth trans woman to use the women’s facilities, especially a facility open to the public, doesn’t protect that person from violence. Women aren’t perfect angels. It’s entirely possible that a woman could assault a trans woman in the women’s facilities; although the likelihood of that assault being severe is low since trans women (males) are physically larger and stronger on average than women.

I think it’s even more likely that a white knight transphobic man would take umbrage at seeing a non-passing trans woman enter the women’s facilities and take matters into his own hands. A third option would actually protect trans people from busybodies, not the free-for-all in the women’s facilities that trans activists are fighting so hard for.

This really goes to prove that the bathroom/locker room/shelter/prison fight isn’t about protection, it’s about validation.

Precisely. i know that if my husband saw a man entering the ladies behind me, at a minimum words will be a exchanged, and there’s a strong likelihhod that violence will ensue. Most men are simply not going to stand by while fully intact het males expose women and children to potential rape. It’s far more dangerous IMO for them to be in the ladies than in their own facilities.

Male people are not at risk of rape by females, it’s the other way around. However, trans women ARE at risk of violence and rape at the hands of other males. Trans men may be safely housed in female shelters, but trans women need their own spaces. They should be given protection from potential male sexual violence without negatively impacting female rights to the same protection.

I am not a Republican either but that group was 100% right in what the proposal would entail. (Or will entail since they passed it). I knew a girl who was a lesbian who was forced to use the boy’s bathroom in high school (and the school tried to trump up charges of sexual harassment against her meanwhile she was nearly raped when the school forced her to use the boy’s bathroom). So, I can’t imagine using the guy’s bathroom to be that safe for FTTs, especially when they don’t pass well. Also notice how there’s a huge campaign to put violent male transgenders in women’s prisons but the same is not going on for female transgenders.

Oh yes, medicating gender-nonconforming children is child abuse. Most of these parents are really creepy and give off a Munchhausen’s by-proxy vibe. It’s baffling that parents who wouldn’t consent to their teen getting tattoos and piercings think that Jimmy needs hormones because he likes pink. And you are right, pink did used to be considered a girl color. Actually, the reason why people changed the assigned color for the sexes was partly due to Hitler and the pink triangle. Most of these children do not go on to be trans later in life, so it’s the medical abuse of many children for the sake of the handful who may have decided later on that they want these treatments. It’s also a question of how much a choice it is when the parents get super invested in their child being trans. I predict many lawsuits over this.

Uh, your friend is creepy. That is all. Does she have any sons, because it sounds like she and her husband are pressuring their lesbian daughter to transition partly due to homophobia and partly because they always wanted a boy. At least that’s how it comes across to me.

Medicating children who don’t conform to gender-roles, which are 100% made up and 100% designed to keep women down will never be progressive. I am suspicious because the medical establishment is out to make money and these drugs are expensive.

I consider men who I date to be bisexual, even though they usually identify as straight. A lot of the time actual straight men are initially attracted to me but lose interest once I tell them I’m trans, which makes sense because they are heterosexual not bisexual. I’ve never dated anyone who exclusively dated male-bodied people. I think most gay men don’t date trans women because they are attracted to more than just the physical sex. Plus I have boobs, and gay guys aren’t into that😛

As for the “kids on hormones” thing, I have conflicted opinions. I know why doctors and a lot of older trans people support it, because it’s so much more effective when administered at a young age. But, I didn’t start hormones until I was a legal adult and I turned out just fine, so I’m not really sure what the rush is.