Also I missed it in the Q&A a couple of weeks ago but the 2 character limit won't be enforced when this hits. They want to give people time to play all their current toons to be able to better decide which two they'll want to pick.

As nice as it sounds in theory, seems like it's just going to make people angry when it happens.

---------- Post added 2012-11-08 at 10:37 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Alyssa

That's what I said weeks ago when we assumed 100CC/$1, now if you knock that $75 out you will have to play one activity for 15 months before you start to save money.

From the press email "All former subscribers who reactivate their subscription by the new date of December 20, 2012 at 11:59am CDT will be granted Complimentary Cartel Coins for their prior paid months up to November 15, 2012."

From the press email "All former subscribers who reactivate their subscription by the new date of December 20, 2012 at 11:59am CDT will be granted Complimentary Cartel Coins for their prior paid months up to November 15, 2012."

be happy!

It looks obvious, but does that mean they extended it past the old "you need to be a subscriber before F2P launches to get your Cartel Coins from prior paid months"?

It looks obvious, but does that mean they extended it past the old "you need to be a subscriber before F2P launches to get your Cartel Coins from prior paid months"?

They changed it from "you have to be subscribed when free to play goes live" to "you have to resubscribe before Dec 20th", at the end you still have to subscribe to get the coins for your past subscription, an issue if you look at it from my perspective where the coins for past sub should be goodwill for changing financial model and compensation for past loyalty, instead they turn it in to some dirty money grab.

As someone who was looking forward to the SWTOR F2P option, the restrictions almost make me not want to even bother. I loved Kotor 1 and 2 and their storys and adventures, I was hoping to just single player through this. But restricting action bars? How is that fun for anyone? Why not make a race car game and remove 1 of the tires. "You may not be able to corner well, but for $9.99 we'll give you that 4th tire!"

They changed it from "you have to be subscribed when free to play goes live" to "you have to resubscribe before Dec 20th", at the end you still have to subscribe to get the coins for your past subscription, an issue if you look at it from my perspective where the coins for past sub should be goodwill for changing financial model and compensation for past loyalty, instead they turn it in to some dirty money grab.

That's where we disagree. Imo there's no such thing as 'past loyalty'. If loyalty is what they're rewarding then only current loyalty fits the definition imo. No such thing as 'I used to be a loyal partner...well, until I cheated that is...I was loyal once though, that counts right?''

I personally don't think they should reward loyalty BUT if they do then not rewarding players who quit in the past is ok with me. If you resub before the deadline they set then all is well, if not then I have no pity for the whinging. Again, I don't think they should reward loyalty but if they do then they should only reward the loyal and not the ones who bailed.

SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

Originally Posted by edgecrusher

There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

That's where we disagree. Imo there's no such thing as 'past loyalty'. If loyalty is what they're rewarding then only current loyalty fits the definition imo. No such thing as 'I used to be a loyal partner...well, until I cheated that is...I was loyal once though, that counts right?''

I personally don't think they should reward loyalty BUT if they do then not rewarding players who quit in the past is ok with me. If you resub before the deadline they set then all is well, if not then I have no pity for the whinging. Again, I don't think they should reward loyalty but if they do then they should only reward the loyal and not the ones who bailed.

While we already had this discussion, you logic means that the guy who buys the game the 14th for $15 and enters he's info to subscribe and get a free month is more loyal with he's $15 than the guy who bought the game at full price and payed subscription for 10 months and then let it laps due to lack of content, having supported the developer with over $200.

Alternatively the guy who bought the game at launch and never subscribed past the free month and then comes back the 14th is more loyal than the guy same guy in the previous example, you must be able to see how flawed that view on loyalty is.

Either way, they are changing the financial model after selling their product thus paying for their risk capital with the money early customers gave them while being patient with lack of content delivery, so if you don't want to view it as a loyalty reward just see it as doing right by the guys that payed for your 6 years of development.

From the press email "All former subscribers who reactivate their subscription by the new date of December 20, 2012 at 11:59am CDT will be granted Complimentary Cartel Coins for their prior paid months up to November 15, 2012."

be happy!

It looks obvious, but does that mean they extended it past the old "you need to be a subscriber before F2P launches to get your Cartel Coins from prior paid months"?

It means: If you have any active subspriction day between the timeframe of 11/15/2012 till 12/20/2012 you will get the before accumulated cartel coins. That mean you can have a subscription now and will get the coins excactly at the f2p day. It would also mean that you re-activate your subscription on the 19th Dec 2012 and still get all the cartel coins for the paid months since release.

This way anyone that current has no active subscription, but could gain cartel coins with re-sub dont neccessary need to re-sub bfore the f2p. Anyone of them can easily test their prefered f2p status before actually have to decide to pay money - either for a sub with massiv coins gain or any of the official coin offers in the swtor-store!

Can someone ask on their official forums if the game is going to be available in regions where it isn't right now? Currently, you just can't play the game from India. I am hoping they will change that - I can play WoW and LOTRO both from here just fine.

While we already had this discussion, you logic means that the guy who buys the game the 14th for $15 and enters he's info to subscribe and get a free month is more loyal with he's $15 than the guy who bought the game at full price and payed subscription for 10 months and then let it laps due to lack of content, having supported the developer with over $200.

Alternatively the guy who bought the game at launch and never subscribed past the free month and then comes back the 14th is more loyal than the guy same guy in the previous example, you must be able to see how flawed that view on loyalty is.

Either way, they are changing the financial model after selling their product thus paying for their risk capital with the money early customers gave them while being patient with lack of content delivery, so if you don't want to view it as a loyalty reward just see it as doing right by the guys that payed for your 6 years of development.

And it's not "whining", it's expressing an opinion.

As I said, I don't think they should reward loyalty. I do think though that someone who follows their rules (is subbed before the deadline) is showing more 'loyalty' than someone who isn't BUT who want their tokens anyway.

One of Bioware's Doctors made a huge cockup back in the spring. He came out with the whole 'All accounts with a level 50 will receive a free month to say thank you for their LOYALTY'. It heavily implied that people who had been paying since day 1 but hadn't managed to get a toon to lvl 50 were somehow not loyal. Huge backlash on the forums (I had 3 lvl 50s by then but even I railed against this slander).

BW backed down and eased up on the restrictions for that promotion/give-away. What that showed me, back in early 2012, is that BW had a very strange view on loyalty and an even stranger desire to piss people off with statements that could easily be avoided.

So I believe it's best for them not to try and meddle with loyalty promotions again so soon. However I believe that when a census is taken. At that specific moment do I determine who 'currently' is a loyal subscriber. In your examples, yes, I'd consider the loyal peeps to be those currently loyal. Not any who used to be signed up but aren't anymore.

'Whinging' is complaining about something in a persistent manner. The simple rule to this promotion is set by BW. Sub-up to receive...or do not receive. As I agree with their simple rule any persistent complaining done by the people who choose not to follow it is whinging in my book.

---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 02:25 PM ----------

Originally Posted by ecthrund

Can someone ask on their official forums if the game is going to be available in regions where it isn't right now? Currently, you just can't play the game from India. I am hoping they will change that - I can play WoW and LOTRO both from here just fine.

Have you tried downloading the game via the website (downloading the trial) and then upgrading to a full subcription?

I have friends in the red zones who play TOR happily enough. I may have misunderstood what you're asking though so forgive me if that is so.

Last edited by Jamos77; 2012-11-09 at 01:29 PM.

SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

Originally Posted by edgecrusher

There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

In your examples, yes, I'd consider the loyal peeps to be those currently loyal. Not any who used to be signed up but aren't anymore.

Yet you can't know the reason for everyone not being signed up right this minute, they might have been loyal since launch and simply be on a long vacation, either way, as I said there are other ways to look at it as well beyond the loyalty aspect. At the end of the day them putting conditions on returning customers is more likely to hurt than help them.

Originally Posted by Jamos77

'Whinging' is complaining about something in a persistent manner. The simple rule to this promotion is set by BW. Sub-up to receive...or do not receive. As I agree with their simple rule any persistent complaining done by the people who choose not to follow it is whinging in my book.

So disagreeing with something on a forum, which exist for discussion, is whining?

1) Yet you can't know the reason for everyone not being signed up right this minute, they might have been loyal since launch and simply be on a long vacation, either way, as I said there are other ways to look at it as well beyond the loyalty aspect. At the end of the day them putting conditions on returning customers is more likely to hurt than help them.

2) So disagreeing with something on a forum, which exist for discussion, is whining?

1) Yes as noone can setup a restriction on such a programme and know the reasons for why every person who quit, quit. Maybe some are in Africa helping to fight poverty and so no longer have time to play or someone else is in hospital while their game card ran out. Their are a million reasons why someone won't be able to fulfill the simple restriction BW have set up on this. However if you're going to have some restriction then pick a simple one everyone can understand and I believe that the one they picked is as simple and clear as you can get. Be subbed before the deadline to partake in it...or don't.

2) Not at all. I used it in the line about how those who persistently go on about it are whinging. It's a simple enough rule to follow but not following and then whinging about why over and over is what I was refering to. Also when I wrote 'those' I didn't have specific names of people in mind.

SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

Originally Posted by edgecrusher

There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

Have you tried downloading the game via the website (downloading the trial) and then upgrading to a full subcription?

I have friends in the red zones who play TOR happily enough. I may have misunderstood what you're asking though so forgive me if that is so.

When I tried to buy the game a few months ago, it just told me that the game wasn't available in my country, plus the usual PR about how they were looking to expand. I don't want to download a gazillion GBs just to find out that I can't play.

When I tried to buy the game a few months ago, it just told me that the game wasn't available in my country, plus the usual PR about how they were looking to expand. I don't want to download a gazillion GBs just to find out that I can't play.

Ah gotcha. Well I have 2 friends in Brazil who were told at launch that the game wasn't available in their country but a few months later they downloaded the trial version and got it that way. Afaik only China is somewhat restricted to TOR. Gimme a few minutes and I'll create a forum thread on the official forums and send you the link so you can the replies.

SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

Originally Posted by edgecrusher

There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

Ah gotcha. Well I have 2 friends in Brazil who were told at launch that the game wasn't available in their country but a few months later they downloaded the trial version and got it that way. Afaik only China is somewhat restricted to TOR. Gimme a few minutes and I'll create a forum thread on the official forums and send you the link so you can the replies.

However if you're going to have some restriction then pick a simple one everyone can understand and I believe that the one they picked is as simple and clear as you can get. Be subbed before the deadline to partake in it...or don't.

Which I understand, I however disagree that it's good practice and will express that disagreement until the conditions are changed or it's to late. And I resent the implication that it's whining just because one disagrees for a lengthy period of time.

Which I understand, I however disagree that it's good practice and will express that disagreement until the conditions are changed or it's to late. And I resent the implication that it's whining just because one disagrees for a lengthy period of time.

I see your point. It is a bit subjective I guess. One man's 'freedom fighter' is another man's 'terrorist' etc.

I wish you luck and that Bioware take what you and others have said to heart and change the terms of their promotion. I doubt they will once next week roles on by as to change it now would anger those who were encouraged to resub to get the coins...and did so. I wish you luck though.

---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 03:59 PM ----------

Originally Posted by ecthrund

When I tried to buy the game a few months ago, it just told me that the game wasn't available in my country, plus the usual PR about how they were looking to expand. I don't want to download a gazillion GBs just to find out that I can't play.

Got a reply from Customer Service:

There are no restrictions placed on the game based on region from our side, so your friend should be able to download and play the game without issues.

And yes your friend can just download the game and join the trial version to try it out.

Please come back to us if you have any further questions.

Thanks!

SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

Originally Posted by edgecrusher

There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

I've only got 250 coins banked so no panic rush for me to come back. Timing is crappy for me since Rift xpac comes out two days prior. I might come back for a month or two next year the f2p model has zero appeal to me since I leveled a char to 50 did an OP, some FP's and PvP at launch so as a former player the f2p is useless. Seems aimed at new players who want to trial the game imo.