I Am a Straight, Married Christian Male in Support of Gay Marriage

Originally posted by 547000
Christianity is incompatible with homosexuality.

In YOUR opinion. The plethora of gay Christians would disagree with you.

But you're entitled to have your opinion. I just think you should stop
worrying about OTHER people's relationship with God and let God handle it.

He really doesn't need you and your judgments.

Your form of Christianity I can do without.

Having an orthodox opinion is not judgement. And what about what is said about warning others of destruction? That requires judgement of some kind by
your standards. Are we supposed to just blindly accept apostasy?

Not adhering to strict nonsense that directly goes against Jesus' teachings for the purpose of pointing out every splinter that you see in everyone
else's eye is NOT apostasy.

Abandoning Jesus' teachings to preach against how evil everyone but you is... and then acting as if your equalized sexual sins don't exist...
that could be seen as apostasy.

I don't think you understood the context of "judge not". The church should not sin against God because God will punish the church. Homosexuality is
incompatible with Christianity. You would have to go through many hoops to say it can be blessed by God. If you repent you can be forgiven, which is
why people who sin in the past can be forgiven (repentance means turning away from sin), but homosexuals marrying is not repentance. Unless the
homosexual is inactive they are not repenting. Marrying them IN CHURCH is contradictory to what we know of scripture. Fornicators can possibly repent,
but homosexuals who are active are not.

But continue on with this post-modern nonsense. You are merely quoting the scriptures to justify your philosophy and not taking it in fully. It was
only when I started taking scriptures seriously I became orthodox. You have to ignore huge parts of it to be a liberal christian.

Maybe my explanation it unclear, which is why it is so hard for some to understand so I'll try another way.

A person who has fornicated and asks to be married in NOT NECESSARILY saying "Father, please bless my fornication" but a homosexual couple who want to
be married is NECESSARILY saying "Father, please bless our homosexuality." Until you understand the distinction between the two, and that the New
Testament is clear on the matter that homosexuality is wrong, you will not understand what I am saying. A fornicator can repent, but an active
homosexual is not repenting. Only an inactive one can. And if homosexual wants to marry one of his same gender, he is active.Is it more clear
now?

Originally posted by 547000
But continue on with this post-modern nonsense. You are merely quoting the scriptures to justify your philosophy and not taking it in fully. It was
only when I started taking scriptures seriously I became orthodox. You have to ignore huge parts of it to be a liberal christian.

Give up, I haven't ignored anything. All I have done is suggest that you likely aren't perfect in your marriage either and add things from the
scripture. Whether or not you want to admit your own sins on your little online tirade is up to you, but it's likely that you sin constantly while
having sex with your wife, seeing as you aren't married to her (provided she was not a virgin when your were "married"), God does not recognize such
marriages, therefore every sex act within the fake marriage is fornication. Fornication sanctioned by the Church.

You're the one that is consistently and conveniently ignoring this scripture because it doesn't praise you in all that you do.

And bite your tongue, I'm willing to bet my left foot that I have far more religious education than you. You don't even know what a Pharisee is;
you're proud of being one in your blissful religious ignorance. Catholic Orthodoxy is closer to Judaism than Christianity, by the way.

I'm unmarried. I have sinned but I try to repent. I am celibate and haven't had sex. You don't seem to grasp that part of the gospel is preaching
repentance. What sins I have done, I have repented, and what sins I will do I will repent for. It's not easy, but it is part of the gospel. If
repentance will not bring forgiveness, then everybody is doomed.

You don't seem to grasp that part of the gospel is preaching repentance. What sins I have done, I have repented, and what sins I will do I
will repent for. It's not easy, but it is part of the gospel.

edit on 29-9-2011 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

I have to address this again, you do realize that you are saying "I, I, I" and not "They, you, everyone but me".

The Catholic Church has deemed birth control okay now, regardless of how much they demonized it before; the Bible says that no sex acts should be
performed without procreation as the premise. So therefore, the Catholic Church is already disobeying the Bible for the sake of humanity, does that
make them godless?

By the poster's logic, the only reason to be married is to breed... Some people's minds are narrower than the road to heaven, I tell ya!

No my dear. Married people who do not have sex are a blessing too: the church has always blessed abstinence. BUT the only reason for the "tax breaks"
that society grants to married people are for breeding, and producing future citizens of the state. God doesn't grant any tax breaks. So, there are
two different things being considered here: religious blessings and civil blessings. The gay couple want the "tax breaks" that are intended for
progeny producers. THE GAY COUPLE WANT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING.

By the poster's logic, the only reason to be married is to breed... Some people's minds are narrower than the road to heaven, I tell ya!

No my dear. Married people who do not have sex are a blessing too: the church has always blessed abstinence. BUT the only reason for the "tax
breaks" that society grants to married people are for breeding, and producing future citizens of the state. God doesn't grant any tax breaks. So,
there are two different things being considered here: religious blessings and civil blessings. The gay couple want the "tax breaks" that are
intended for progeny producers. THE GAY COUPLE WANT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING.

edit on 29-9-2011 by DRAZIW because: (no reason given)

You mean like straight married couples who do not reproduce? What's good for the goose....

Yes its an illness, they cant be feeling well. Its not normal, god made man and woman and said go forth and multiply. Replenish the earth. How can you
replenish the earth by being a gay?

They can't.

Jesus said, "The kingdom of the father is like a man who had good seed. His enemy came by night and sowed weeds among the good seed. The man did not
allow them to pull up the weeds; he said to them, 'I am afraid that you will go intending to pull up the weeds and pull up the wheat along with
them.' For on the day of the harvest the weeds will be plainly visible, and they will be pulled up and burned." -- The Gospel of Thomas #57

It's pretty clear that the scriptures acknowledge that there are "two types" of mankind planted on earth. One is referred to as the "wheat" and
the other the "weeds". The "weeds" are growing among the "wheat". It's hard to separate them while they are growing. But there comes a time
when it's clear who the "wheat" are and who the "weeds" are, and at that time the "weeds" are pulled up and burned.

The "wheat" are planted by God, and his enemy [the devil] planted the "weeds" among them.

You mean like straight married couples who do not reproduce? What's good for the goose....

Right. Exactly. There are selfish straight people too. Gay people aren't the only sinners. However, straight people can repent, change their ways,
and fulfill their obligations to society, thus justifying the tax breaks. But, gay people cannot produce regardless. Society simply didn't want to
put pressure on married people with regard to timing and quantity of kids they are expected to produce. Gay people are taking advantage of this
lenient treatment of straight couple marriage to claim they too deserve the tax breaks.

You mean like straight married couples who do not reproduce? What's good for the goose....

Right. Exactly. There are selfish straight people too. Gay people aren't the only sinners. However, straight people can repent, change their ways,
and fulfill their obligations to society, thus justifying the tax breaks. But, gay people cannot produce regardless. Society simply didn't want to
put pressure on married people with regard to timing and quantity of kids they are expected to produce. Gay people are taking advantage of this
lenient treatment of straight couple marriage to claim they too deserve the tax breaks.

So wait. Now straight married couples who enjoy government tax breaks are selfish sinners? They can repent and change their ways? How so? By
adopting? Surrogate? The same methods gay married couples would use? I don't think you really thought your arguement out. You just want to argue
against gay marriage. Why not just say you're against it because the bible told you so and leave it at that. It's a valid, if narrow point of
view.

I have never said anyone will burn in hell ever. I don't believe in it, christianity or any other religion in any way whatsoever. I was arguing about
christianity and therefore the bible. I had only quoted DRAZIW's posts which contained bible verses- I'm not quite sure how you got that
impression.

Please could you explain why? Is it because you think god will handle the punishment not you? You have said all through this thread that it is sinful-
are you therefore advocating sinfulness? Would it not be wrong to advocate murder? Why then is this different?

Yes. God can do it.

Yes he can, according to a text. But if that text is even a tiny bit untrustworthy then it is far more likely he cannot.

Presumably these things need to be miracles performed by God to let these types of couples have a child... Does that mean that all couples who do not
get this miracle should be ashamed for not being pious enough? Or simply upset because God didn't bother? Why even bother with a couple? Can a single
man give birth to a child if god wants it? Maybe not even a human, can a celibate snail have a human child of god wishes it? A tree? A particle?
Jupiter? A black hole?

Please could you explain why? Is it because you think god will handle the punishment not you? You have said all through this thread that it is sinful-
are you therefore advocating sinfulness? Would it not be wrong to advocate murder? Why then is this different?

Yes, God will handle any punishment, not me. My responsibility is to report on my understanding of the law, not to enforce it. Jesus never punished
anyone, he just told them what was wrong and what was right, and left it up to the FATHER in heaven to direct the listener according to HIS will. If
Jesus wasn't going to punish, why would I? I have no greater authority than him. Although people did "stone" sinners back in the old days, Jesus
brought in a more righteous practice of "forgiving" and "warning" instead.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the
kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 5:20 KJV

Not to punish, is not the same thing as "advocating the sinful practice".

However, because "silence is approval", if you see something wrong, it's your duty to say so. Let your light shine...etc..etc..so that all who walk
this way can see the light.

When I say I'm "not against gay unions", specifically, I'm saying that I'm for the separation of good from evil. God has separated the good into the
good camp, and the evil into the evil camp, and I'm not against continuing that separation.

It is the confusion of good and evil, that I am against. Calling evil "good", or good "evil", mixing and blending good with evil, by using the same
terms and words to identify them, these are all tricks of the devil to get men to fall into even more sin.

But, once people want to use different words for different practices, I support that convention.

Once we accept "Gay unions" and "Marriage" being distinct, we can then speak of "Gay Union" being cursed, and "Marriage" being blessed.

But if we use "Marriage" for both gay and straight union, then the term "Marry" could mean curse or bless, so it's confusion.

There would be a lot of gay couples walking about on earth believing they have been "blessed" by *marriage*, whereas, in fact, they would be
cursed.

The devil tricked them.

But, those who understand the word, must unravel the devil's tricks to help those with eyes to then see.

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