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This whole topic is a bit confusing for me. Haha. My sensei has the title of shihan and went to Japan to receive it. He is a student of Chiba Sensei. His name wasn't on the list above... so now I am confused as to what he would be considered. It really doesn't matter to me because he is still a great teacher and the title really doesn't mean that much to me. Just curious now.

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.

This whole topic is a bit confusing for me. Haha. My sensei has the title of shihan and went to Japan to receive it. He is a student of Chiba Sensei. His name wasn't on the list above... so now I am confused as to what he would be considered. It really doesn't matter to me because he is still a great teacher and the title really doesn't mean that much to me. Just curious now.

The list was compiled in 2002, there have been a lot of shihans appointed since then.

This whole topic is a bit confusing for me. Haha. My sensei has the title of shihan and went to Japan to receive it. He is a student of Chiba Sensei. His name wasn't on the list above... so now I am confused as to what he would be considered. It really doesn't matter to me because he is still a great teacher and the title really doesn't mean that much to me. Just curious now.

Totally can relate to your curiosity.

On one hand, however, you have the fact that a person trained with someone who would be deemed reputable.

On another hand its about what you feel you get out of the person you train with.

So overall the politics of it plays less importance, though it does cease to amaze me how tangled things get.

To some extent its really about limiting numbers. You could have someone who is not a Shihan who technically speaking is better than a Shihan. Im not sure that Shihan necessarily equates to 'talent' per say, [not saying its not], but I believe the emphasis is more of a respect for time and energy [which talent would seem to be involved] for ones time spent.

Again, its more of a courtesy alongside of keeping the pyramid shaped as a pyramid less everything blur into a singularity as it were.

Anyway... at the end of the day, most people wont have to worry about being a Shihan as the current status would take approx 20+ years to get there...

Actually, I am surprised that this topic has generated such interest, given the robust attitude of some AikiWeb members towards organizations.

Quote:

Christopher Li wrote:

There really weren't any formal rules - that's what the regulations were intended to address, and that's clear from what Tani says in his statement. I'm fine with that, the only problem I have is that the regulations ought to be applied inside Japan as well.

Best,

Chris

I think there would be major problems with applying the international regulations to Japan. The organizational structure of the Aikikai in Japan is far more fluid and contentious than is commonly acknowledged. People overseas might have the image of a smoothly running organizational machine, presided over by Doshu, and the annual jamboree known as the All-Japan Aikido Demonstration might seem strong evidence of such an image. However, the reality is somewhat different.

The All-Japan Aikido Federation is a very ghostly organization. As I was once told, and by an Hombu official, no less, this organization has no real substance. My own dojos, for example, are not members. In fact, we are functioning quite happily without belonging to any organizations at all. We are independent with a direct line to the Aikikai Hombu. So I myself do not belong to any of Mr Tani's four categories of 'official' shihan and this is just fine.

I think there would be major problems with applying the international regulations to Japan. The organizational structure of the Aikikai in Japan is far more fluid and contentious than is commonly acknowledged. People overseas might have the image of a smoothly running organizational machine, presided over by Doshu, and the annual jamboree known as the All-Japan Aikido Demonstration might seem strong evidence of such an image. However, the reality is somewhat different.

The All-Japan Aikido Federation is a very ghostly organization. As I was once told, and by an Hombu official, no less, this organization has no real substance. My own dojos, for example, are not members. In fact, we are functioning quite happily without belonging to any organizations at all. We are independent with a direct line to the Aikikai Hombu. So I myself do not belong to any of Mr Tani's four categories of 'official' shihan and this is just fine.

Of course, that's the major catch. Even outside Japan, the Aikikai has, in reality, very little leverage that is not given to them by the organizations themselves. Still, once they put things like this out there it is inevitable that people start to question the fairness of the policy.

And how in the world does Aikikai Honbu view a 7th dan shihan from outside of Japan that will likely have to defer (or rather entirely drop their shihan status and just be a 7th dan) to a newly appointed Aikikai Honbu training staff 6th dan shihan?

As Mark has said, there are at least three categories here, not just two. There are those Japanese-born teachers who were trained in Japan and have been awarded shihan status. Most are still in Japan, but some are living and teaching outside Japan: for instance Chiba, Yamada and Saotome. However, a small subset of these are Aikikai Hombu Shihan, who have been trained up at the heart at the system by the Ueshiba family and senior teachers there, and are currently on the full-time teaching roll at Hombu Dojo.

Kanetsuka Sensei has talked about the status of Hombu Shihan: although we have had relatively young 6th Dans from Hombu as guest instructors at the BAF Summer School in recent years, he says that "Hombu Shihan" is a separate category to any other, including his own shihan status, since they are full-time teachers at the world headquarters dojo, and so are official representatives of the Aikikai and Doshu. In terms of relative status in reality, however, I suspect that the concept of honne-tatemae might be appropriate in this context...

As has already been mentioned, there is a growing number of non-Japanese shihan, with their title conferred by Hombu Dojo, and I have heard nothing to suggest that the Aikikai has stopped awarding these. In the UK there are around ten of these, including Terry Ezra (now 7th Dan), Matthew Holland, Gordon Jones and others.

It's time for Aikido in America to take over it's own destiny. The United States Aikido Federation should remove itself from the shackles of All-Japan Aikido Federation. We have enough structure and Shihan to promote and control our own organizations.

In all seriousness, I'm puzzled. Let me see if I have this straight. People belonging to satellite organizations connected to Hombu Dojo are upset because their shihans don't have same universal status in other organizations as the Hombu Shihans. Is this correct?

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer

In all seriousness, I'm puzzled. Let me see if I have this straight. People belonging to satellite organizations connected to Hombu Dojo are upset because their shihans don't have same universal status in other organizations as the Hombu Shihans. Is this correct?

I don't think anyone implied that any organisation was "upset" by this situation (I certainly didn't!).

In practice, many shihan (I'm thinking of Yamada, Chiba and Tamura in particular) have enough standing to be able to do what they like anyway.

I don't think anyone implied that any organisation was "upset" by this situation (I certainly didn't!).
Alex

Neither does the post you quote. It asks whether people in those organizations are upset. I think that's a fair inference from the tone of a number of the posts here. And it's worth pointing out, IMO, because its not the situation suggested by the thread title.

It's time for Aikido in America to take over it's own destiny. The United States Aikido Federation should remove itself from the shackles of All-Japan Aikido Federation. We have enough structure and Shihan to promote and control our own organizations.

It sounds good and may offer a short period of peace. But, many feel that once the Japanese Shihan who have started to award Shihan status to American instructors pass away, all chaos will eventually breakout and we'll start to see more splits and then more topics like this one. It has already happened once that I know about.

I've been following the topic with some interest and, dare I say amusement.

It all hinges on how important you consider the title of Shihan.

As Ruth said earlier in the UKA we just consider it as a teaching title, which for sure invests the holder with some responsibilities but in itself does not confer rank.

If you like our Shihan is the "first amongst equals" in that virtually all decisions are made collectively by the Shidoin;gradings and teaching is shared out as equally as possible.

As far as Hombu Shihan being somewhat different - well of course. They are in direct contact with more advanced practice than most of us could dream of as well as being charged with transmitting the latest Aikido developments.

You might notice after reading the Rules that the regulations are not very clear or well defined. It also shows that the title or name, Shihan, itself is uncertain and I'd like to explain why I say that. First of all, when this regulation was handed to us several years ago, we, the Shihans, decided to wait to adapt this system because it was very questionable. For instance, it used to say in #4.2 that you have to wait 10 years after 6th dan to qualify. Headquarters has since changed it to 6 years. But also around the same time Headquarters appointed some American Aikido instructors not related to the USAF as Shihan without letting us know.

Just recently we changed our minds and adapted this system so I had no hesitation to apply for some qualified instructors from the USAF for Shihan. In the future, the numbers will increase.

Now let me explain what Shihan means in my culture. Please understand that I am not trying to make Shihan seem unimportant, but I must express it in the terms that the Japanese people use the word and what it actually means to us. Shihan is simply another way of saying Sensei. As a matter of fact, it says in the Japanese dictionary that Shihan is used to call the teacher in a particular field or profession such as martial artist or cultural leader. For instance, you call a school teacher in Japan Sensei and you call a teacher of martial arts Shihan. When I make an application for an official document it's proper for me to write Aikido Shihan rather than Aikido Sensei.

Interesting question. Not because of DR but rather to examine other modes of transmission in the more traditional Japanese arts as well.
In Koryu what you teach and even who you are allowed to teach is usually tightly controlled.
Once someone reaches the level of Menkyo kaiden (different titles for different arts) they are allowed to teach who they want and or to change the art any way they see fit- as if it is now a separate art. Let the chips fall where they may.
In any given art in any generation you might have several branches-with teachers adding a flavor to the central expression. It was not uncommon for some of those" flavors" to actually be BETTER than the central branch of any given art. That said there was no way to regain or rest control of the art back from those licensed to teach.
Since there is no Menkyo system in modern arts-to include Aikido; there is no completion or graduation set up in those arts. Therefore at any point the Aikikai could pull the rank of anyone. I am not making a judgment of whether or not a Shihan would care if the Hombu did that; just that it remains that they could. It seems aikido is interested in regaining more control of the art. The question remains whether it ever lost control to begin with.

I think folks have missed some central issues and have yet to ask some very clear administrative questions of their official representatives.

I think in all the emotion on the thread the central question remains unanswered. The original question was not about what happened in the past, (Tissier and others) but rather about Peters post about the new model and where the Aikikai is headed.
So
1. Will there be any issuance of shihan rank to anyone of any race in any branch that will be recognized by hombu...OTHER than Japanese people trained at the hombu.
In other words
2. Is the future...again future- going to see ONLY Japanese teachers from hombu as recognized shihan by the aikikai? Will western teachers trained at the aikikai to 6th dan in Japan be recognized as shihan? In other words clearing up issues of race over affiliation.
Those are narrow and specific parameters.

If that is so, can the IAF address the issue in a more formal way? Isn't part of it's mandate to explain and interpret the Japanese honne for us unaware westerners in a clear manner?
3. Will the current 6th dans see their 7th dan rank and possible 8th dan recognized by the aikikai but never be recognized as a shihan by the aikikai? They get one- but never the other?
4. Do you think their teachers lets say Saotome should just promote them to Shihan anyway even though it will be virtually meaningless outside of the ASU?
5. If the Aikikai removes its support from various Japanese Shihan abroad, thus limit their teaching creds, then isn't the aikikai inviting students to leave those teachers and re-align with aikikai approved super teachers.
6. Under what conditions did does a Japanese teacher training under a Japanese teacher -like Ikeda under Saotome -get to be recognized as a Shihan but not Gleason, or Ledyard?

Other than translating and interpreting for us, does the IAF have the capacity to interject in decisions? Lacking that, can it clear up a rather ambiguous state of affairs and answer pointed questions?

In the "No more Mr. nice guy" thread here, Peter stated many were less than satisfied with the IAF role in their response to the Aikikai. Has any action, input, opinion, or stance been taken since that time (aprox. 2007) to respond to those Western practitioners unhappy with the decisions of the Aikikai? Or is it a case that the opinions are not necessarily "unrepresented," but rather that they are just "meaningless" in the long run?
Cheers
Dan

Step forward K Chiba, when he was head of the fledgling Hombu international department. This was in the mid 1970s, after he left the UK and returned to Japan. The international department was created at much the same time as the IAF was founded and the one was meant to be a sort of mirror image of the other. K Chiba was head of the international department and was also the main activator of the IAF. (I think that Ellis has some stories about how K Chiba ran the inaugural IAF meeting in Tokyo in 1976.)

I suspect you have no idea of the internal machinations going on within the Hombu at the time, over how to deal with the vexed question of international aikido organizations--as organizations, not as the personal dojos or fiefdoms of individual teachers.

Remember also that K Chiba committed the unpardonable sin of resigning his overseas commission in the UK and returning to Japan. So he had to rebuild his standing within the Hombu. As a result, the original international regulations were a 'committee' document, full of subtle ambiguities designed to appease the concerns of a particular Sensei or faction within the Hombu. (How do I know this? Well, when the regulations were revised in 1988, I was asked to make a new English translation, with the changes incorporated. So I had the job of translating the ambiguities of Japanese into clear, sharp, legal, English.)

Yamada Sensei was happily rolling along in the US (I know, because I was there at the tine), when suddenly, overseas teachers were asked to approve these new international regulations. The Americans were not very happy at all and were even less happy with having to create an organization, to be called the USAF, which would then join this new super-organization, to be called the IAF.

So I think there is no wonder that neither the Hombu's international regulations, nor the Rules for Shihan (which, by the way, no longer appear on the Aikikai's website) are very clearly expressed, as Yamada Sensei states.

Best wishes,

PAG

Quote:

Inocencio Maramba wrote:

I found this article by Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei, written in 2005, to be very enlightening:

PS. Since I wrote this post, I see that Dan has posted some questions. Since he mentions me in his post, I will attempt to answer his questions and this might also throw more light on some of the issues raised by Yamada Sensei.

It sounds good and may offer a short period of peace. But, many feel that once the Japanese Shihan who have started to award Shihan status to American instructors pass away, all chaos will eventually breakout and we'll start to see more splits and then more topics like this one. It has already happened once that I know about.

Splits from other organizations is not always a bad thing. It really depends on the level of respect and honesty among the various organizations. Being shackled, ostracized for not being Japanese, is clearly an agenda for keeping things pure for the sake of Japanese people. A nationalistic, almost racist mindset that we don't need in America today. It does more harm, than it does promoting unity or goodwill among other Aikiodist. Let's control our own destiny. Leave nationalism to dictatorial societies.

We will always see splits in American organizations. It's part of our culture. It's also human nature. This can be promoted respectfully and with dignity.

4. Do you think their teachers lets say Saotome should just promote them to Shihan anyway even though it will be virtually meaningless outside of the ASU?
5. If the Aikikai removes its support from various Japanese Shihan abroad, thus limit their teaching creds, then isn't the aikikai inviting students to leave those teachers and re-align with aikikai approved super teachers.

Cheers
Dan

Dan,

I thought these were interesting questions, each of which contains an implicit assumption or three that could be questioned.

4. Is it not the case that the title of Shihan conferred on students of Chiba and Yamada is virtually meaningless outside the Birankai and the USAF? More broadly, Is it not the case that -- aside from a koryu menkyo kaiden -- virtually all Japanese martial art ranks and titles are meaningless outside the context of a continuing relationship with the instructor who awarded them?

5. Does a significant proportion of the ma student population sign up with particular martial arts instructors on the grounds of franchise brand identification? Or is it more typically location, art, quality, and affiliation -- in that order? In over twenty years, I have not had a single individual train with me because of my affiliation, though I have had a number of individuals who have trained with me (or allowed me to train with them) in spite of my affiliations. Your recent experiment in opening up your barn seems to suggest a corollary: Is it not the case that the arts have matured to the extent that more and more discerning practitioners are looking beyond the three questions of location, art, and affiliation, and will cross state,art,and organizational lines in order to find quality?

The upshot? I think Hombu and the IAF have a window of opportunity that is rapidly closing. Unless these organizations are seen as adding value -- either in terms of maintaining and improving technical standards, or in terms of prestige enhancement for those who are actually doing so -- the reasons for continued engagement with them become increasingly unclear, and the matter will play itself out as the organizations which are currently centered on individual shihan undergo the next phase of division and reproduction, a process which is already well underway in every organization in the United States.

Do you know who made the original international regulations?
Step forward K Chiba, when he was head of the fledgling Hombu international department. This was in the mid 1970s, after he left the UK and returned to Japan. The international department was created at much the same time as the IAF was founded and the one was meant to be a sort of mirror image of the other. K Chiba was head of the international department and was also the main activator of the IAF. (I think that Ellis has some stories about how K Chiba ran the inaugural IAF meeting in Tokyo in 1976.)

I suspect you have no idea of the internal machinations going on within the Hombu at the time, over how to deal with the vexed question of international aikido organizations--as organizations, not as the personal dojos or fiefdoms of individual teachers.

Remember also that K Chiba committed the unpardonable sin of resigning his overseas commission in the UK and returning to Japan. So he had to rebuild his standing within the Hombu. As a result, the original international regulations were a 'committee' document, full of subtle ambiguities designed to appease the concerns of a particular Sensei or faction within the Hombu. (How do I know this? Well, when the regulations were revised in 1988, I was asked to make a new English translation, with the changes incorporated. So I had the job of translating the ambiguities of Japanese into clear, sharp, legal, English.)

Yamada Sensei was happily rolling along in the US (I know, because I was there at the tine), when suddenly, overseas teachers were asked to approve these new international regulations. The Americans were not very happy at all and were even less happy with having to create an organization, to be called the USAF, which would then join this new super-organization, to be called the IAF.

So I think there is no wonder that neither the Hombu's international regulations, nor the Rules for Shihan (which, by the way, no longer appear on the Aikikai's website) are very clearly expressed, as Yamada Sensei states.

Best wishes,

PAG

PS. Since I wrote this post, I see that Dan has posted some questions. Since he mentions me in his post, I will attempt to answer his questions and this might also throw more light on some of the issues raised by Yamada Sensei.

Oy!! How have you survived this long? Bless you Peter.
After saying "hello" it sounds like everything they say is any bodies guess as to true meaning and intent.
I was hoping in your reply that you let your hair down as much as you can and offer some opinions on the state of affiars.
Where and how you think the situsation may be in flux.
Whether they are truly listening to feedback or repercussions.
How it is being aborbed in Japan etc.

I think all will beneift from your views on things -more than just the statements from the IAF-where you may be free to offer them. Of course I realize many are talking privately-which is the best venue-but a certain public feel might be beneficial to a broader group.
Cheers
Dan

It's time for Aikido in America to take over it's own destiny. The United States Aikido Federation should remove itself from the shackles of All-Japan Aikido Federation. We have enough structure and Shihan to promote and control our own organizations.

i agree with nafis. seems ok in the short run... but down the line, it could be crazy. alot of people with a sense of entitlement try to take over, split, then split again...and you have no quality control.

then what happens is you get inundated with the likes of whats-is-name premru and the broken ricebowl crazy.

personally, i like being able to trace my lineage directly to hombu.

but to get back on topic we have to remember that shihan is another word for teacher. like sensei. or kyoshi. or renshi. and thank the kami that doshu doesn't kick those last 2 around... a whole new can of worms

Oy!! How have you survived this long? Bless you Peter.
After saying "hello" it sounds like everything they say is any bodies guess as to true meaning and intent.
I was hoping in your reply that you let your hair down as much as you can and offer some opinions on the state of affiars.
Where and how you think the situsation may be in flux.
Whether they are truly listening to feedback or repercussions.
How it is being aborbed in Japan etc.

I think all will beneift from your views on things -more than just the statements from the IAF-where you may be free to offer them. Of course I realize many are talking privately-which is the best venue-but a certain public feel might be beneficial to a broader group.
Cheers
Dan

Peter's insights here are priceless as far as I am concerned... The one aspect of this that I have begun to understand is that, in the minds of the Japanese Shihan who were uchi deshi, there is a complete distinction between Hombu Dojo and the organization of which it is headquarters and the Ueshiba family. I think that Saotome Sensei feels a deep sense of loyalty to the family and the Doshu as the head of the family. I do not think that he has any particular investment in the organization.

So, for all of us this is an important distinction. What does Hombu Dojo represent to us? Is it an organization that we feel a connection with or is it more a personal connection with the Ueshiba family and the Doshu as the grandson of the Founder? Or maybe you don't feel strongly about either. Personally, I need a reason to care about an organization... which would usually have something to do with an organization caring for me. But I have some sense of connection to the family. The Nidai Doshu was extremely kind to me when I visited Japan. It is a sense of personal relationship. Now, the current Doshu would have no idea who I am. This is certainly completely my own doing as I have not taken the trouble to go back to Japan. I was broke when Saotome Sensei went back with a group so I have never had a chance to meet the current Doshu. But I loved his father. I think he was an old school gentleman, a totally classy fellow. So I feel at least some direct relationship with the family, especially as my teacher has stressed to us that we are in a direct line of transmission from O-Sensei, through himself to us. But this is all personal and doesn't have much to do with organization.

We are still in a transition period. It's clear that one no longer has to go to Japan for top level instruction. Soon we won't be able to find any of the original pioneers to study with, and more non-Japanese will become the top tier.

The old guard loves to complain about complications and cultural necessities. On some points I often agree (like bowing, and uniforms, and sempai/kohai stuff). But I hope they realize it's gonna be ok, even if the smelly, awkward, foreigners start to dominate the market. There will always be Kill Bill watching otaku orientalists who will assume that if it's Japanese, it must be good. Used to be one myself .

So, for all of us this is an important distinction. What does Hombu Dojo represent to us? Is it an organization that we feel a connection with or is it more a personal connection with the Ueshiba family and the Doshu as the grandson of the Founder? Or maybe you don't feel strongly about either.

This is something that I never thought of before. I have practiced Aikido under three different organizations and it has always been O'Sensei and O'Sensei's deshi that were more important to my learning than the organization I belonged to.

Dear Professor Goldsbury,
Thank you for that illuminating account of the history behind the International Regulations. You are right of course, I would have no idea of the internal machinations going on at Aikikai Hombu at the time that the Regulations were formulated.

I am looking forward to more of your answers to questions about the future of Aikikai Hombu and the organisations that are recognised / affiliated with the Aikikai.