Of course Hashfast doesn't HAVE to do any of this they can just stick to the terms of service but I am pretty sure they are smart enough to know that 2014 sales depend heavily on how they "make it right" for batch 1 and 2 customers. KNC for example despite some missteps probably will have no issue lining up batch 3, 4, 5, 20 sales in 2014.

Or just create a new vanilla company, call that (HashCrap)^-1 and repeat from the beginning. (the minus one is on trust).

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers

HF will be late. They already stated being two weeks late. However silicon fabrication is 4-6 weeks so stating they are at the beginning of production is not correct. Hashfast wouldn't be responsible for supplying raw wafers. They supplied specs to the foundry. The foundry (TSMC) will deliver final fabricated wafers. They are responsible for everything between tapeout and final wafers. No customer (including HashFast) has any control or input on how the foundry does their work

Yes HF may not be responsible for the delay ( still waiting for the pics of something that is not the chips), but for a customer they totally are. A customer does not care if the delay is by the foundry, by the pcb supplier or by any other.They want their units on time, as simple as that.

Anyway, you are telling me that you would sign a contract with a foundry like TSMC for hundred thousands of dollars and that you wont have a fixed deadline and further compensation if they dont reach that date ?

Yes HF may not be responsible for the delay ( still waiting for the pics of something that is not the chips), but for a customer they totally are. A customer does not care if the delay is by the foundry, by the pcb supplier or by any other.They want their units on time, as simple as that.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The delay has NOTHING to with the foundry. Nothing. I was correcting that mistaken claim that the substrate is part of the raw wafer process. It isn't and even if it was it isn't something that HashFast would have any control over. They don't manufacture their own raw silicon ingots, cut them into wafers, polish them, etc. All that is done prior chip production.

Yes HashFast is responsible for their customers. Period. I was just correct a false statement about this having something to do with the foundry.

Quote

Anyway, you are telling me that you would sign a contract with a foundry like TSMC for hundred thousands of dollars and that you wont have a fixed deadline and further compensation if they dont reach that date ?

Kinda going off topic but if you want to know the contract usually provides TSMC a giant window like delivery in 6-8 weeks expected with penalty clause after 14-20 weeks. The foundry holds all the cards in the negotiation (especially for small players). If you don't like TSMC terms you can go to Global Foundry and they will give you also the same terms. If you don't like any foundy terms you can always build your own $8B 28nm FAB. Of course once again so there is no confusion an issue with the substrate has nothing to do with TSMC, fabrication, or the delivery time of the wafers. Per HF statement they expect the raw wafers from TSMC on time HOWEVER you can't cut, and package the wafers into final chips without the substrate.

...Kinda going off topic but if you want to know the contract usually provides TSMC a giant window like delivery in 6-8 weeks expected with penalty clause after 14-20 weeks. The foundry holds all the cards in the negotiation...

...so you give *your* customers the leading edge of that window as a ship-by date, and when the chips aren't ready for another 20 weeks, well, that's not your fault, is it? 3. ? ? ?4. PROFIT

I have had the opportunity to look into the eyes of the principals involved as well as shake their hands. I have worked with them closely for the past two weeks. I believe that these people will make a full faith effort to deliver on their promises. Whether or not they are actually able to deliver working units by November, I can’t absolutely guarantee. But, I believe that they have the talent and work ethic to make that a distinct reality.

Could you explain which of these two statements made by you is actually the correct one?

So basically at the beginning you believed they had the talent to do it but now it's delayed it's to be expected? You make a positive assertion that you believe they can do something then when they don't you tell people to grow up a delay is expected? You wonder why people question you?

You were paid to endorse their product, the company you endorsed failed to meet their stated timeline, you and HF deserve all the ire that is directed at you because YOU guys brought it on yourselves.

When oh when for the love of god will you fucking nerds stop listening to these godamn manufacture's that only want you to fund their start up for 0% equity!

i like how you missed the part that i've highlighted in red. looks like i was prescient from day 1 of that post.

it's ppl like you, who impulsively react and attack other ppl w/o understanding what's involved in a complex project like this that bring so much animosity to the mining arena. it's sad.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The delay has NOTHING to with the foundry. Nothing. I was correcting that mistaken claim that the substrate is part of the raw wafer process. It isn't and even if it was it isn't something that HashFast would have any control over. They don't manufacture their own raw silicon ingots, cut them into wafers, polish them, etc. All that is done prior chip production.

Yep I missunderstood and thought that the substrate and silicon process was going to be done by the foundry also.

About the contract of the foundry, as you said the foundry will be the one writing the laws in the negotiation. I was just trying to point out that as there are so many factors that can make this procces into a delay, HF should have though something better than just covering their back for asking the first refunds in January.

Anyway since that everything else in in order to ship tomorrow i would like some pics of the sierra case with the PSU on the wrong side. Because it exists, right?

Poor me...

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The delay has NOTHING to with the foundry. Nothing. I was correcting that mistaken claim that the substrate is part of the raw wafer process. It isn't and even if it was it isn't something that HashFast would have any control over. They don't manufacture their own raw silicon ingots, cut them into wafers, polish them, etc. All that is done prior chip production.

Yep I missunderstood and thought that the substrate and silicon process was going to be done by the foundry also.About the contract of the foundry, as you said the foundry will be the one writing the laws in the negotiation. I was just trying to point out that as there are so many factors that can make this procces into a delay, HF should have though something better than just covering their back for asking the first refunds in January.Thanks for the lesson in foundry negotiation

I would think that TSMC is also doing the packaging. They are full service. It would be likely that they will do the back end services also as that is one of the big advantages of dealing with them.

I have had the opportunity to look into the eyes of the principals involved as well as shake their hands. I have worked with them closely for the past two weeks. I believe that these people will make a full faith effort to deliver on their promises. Whether or not they are actually able to deliver working units by November, I can’t absolutely guarantee. But, I believe that they have the talent and work ethic to make that a distinct reality.

Could you explain which of these two statements made by you is actually the correct one?

So basically at the beginning you believed they had the talent to do it but now it's delayed it's to be expected? You make a positive assertion that you believe they can do something then when they don't you tell people to grow up a delay is expected? You wonder why people question you?

You were paid to endorse their product, the company you endorsed failed to meet their stated timeline, you and HF deserve all the ire that is directed at you because YOU guys brought it on yourselves.

When oh when for the love of god will you fucking nerds stop listening to these godamn manufacture's that only want you to fund their start up for 0% equity!

i like how you missed the part that i've highlighted in red. looks like i was prescient from day 1 of that post.

it's ppl like you, who impulsively react and attack other ppl w/o understanding what's involved in a complex project like this that bring so much animosity to the mining arena. it's sad.

I didn't miss anything champ... HF estimation was late October (20th - 30th?) and your statement was by November. If you add the two up you get end of Oct or by Nov, not by end of November as you seem to imply now. Really if what you meant was I am confident they will deliver at worst a month late then you should have said exactly that and not played into the end of Oct saying by Nov. You know who you remind me of when you use bullshit double talk, Inaba. I suggest you bring much more animosity to the mining arena by using Inaba speak to lure investomers into your scheme than a simple poster like myself.

I have had the opportunity to look into the eyes of the principals involved as well as shake their hands. I have worked with them closely for the past two weeks. I believe that these people will make a full faith effort to deliver on their promises. Whether or not they are actually able to deliver working units by November, I can’t absolutely guarantee. But, I believe that they have the talent and work ethic to make that a distinct reality.

Could you explain which of these two statements made by you is actually the correct one?

So basically at the beginning you believed they had the talent to do it but now it's delayed it's to be expected? You make a positive assertion that you believe they can do something then when they don't you tell people to grow up a delay is expected? You wonder why people question you?

You were paid to endorse their product, the company you endorsed failed to meet their stated timeline, you and HF deserve all the ire that is directed at you because YOU guys brought it on yourselves.

When oh when for the love of god will you fucking nerds stop listening to these godamn manufacture's that only want you to fund their start up for 0% equity!

i like how you missed the part that i've highlighted in red. looks like i was prescient from day 1 of that post.

it's ppl like you, who impulsively react and attack other ppl w/o understanding what's involved in a complex project like this that bring so much animosity to the mining arena. it's sad.

I didn't miss anything champ... HF estimation was late October (20th - 30th?) and your statement was by November. If you add the two up you get end of Oct or by Nov, not by end of November as you seem to imply now. Really if what you meant was I am confident they will deliver at worst a month late then you should have said exactly that and not played into the end of Oct saying by Nov. You know who you remind me of when you use bullshit double talk, Inaba. I suggest you bring much more animosity to the mining arena by using Inaba speak to lure investomers into your scheme than a simple poster like myself.

let me ask you something. do you have an order in place with HF? or are you just trolling to try and cause trouble?

secondly, what is all that babble you're trying to get across? add the two dates up and take an average? what kinda idiocy is that? and just what scheme are you inferring here? they are producing a product, no question. this isn't some kinda scheme or scam as you're trying to imply. they've had a delay. period. they will deliver and it's likely to be by November.

yes, when i say November, i get the benefit of the entire month as i did not specify a date.

cypherdoc;do not feed people that are just looking to fight...It pains me to see so many people I have on ignore popping up in your replies because you quote them, you are making all my well thought out 'ignores' redundant.just use ignore, trust me. Nothing will be missed that is of value.

I don't know the terms of Hashfast contract or what their timeline with TMSC is. It is possible the date they gave was the latest possible date. Regardless once again the delay has nothing to do with the foundry.

So when MPP kicks in and HF sends out bare chips, how is everyone planning on building out the rest of the components???

HashFast clarified it won't be bare chips. It will be processing boards. I believe the OEM water cooling unit HashFast is using is also available retail from Corsair. Any CPU waterblock should be compatible if one wants to build a custom system. The boards connect by USB so any embedded system (rPi, Beagle Board) or entry level PC can be used as a host. Power is by 6 pin PCIe connectors so any good quality PSU should be fine.

"Bitcoin enables ordinary people to fight back, to avoid and evade snooping governments, which enact, use and abuse laws that allow them, without due process, to investigate, tax, control and seize privately owned assets." - Leon Louw

“We can say without equivocation that firms like MasterCard, Visa and the TBTF banks like JPMorgan and Goldman hate the idea of ever having to compete for business again. They have grown comfortable in their corrupt world of writing laws for themselves without any regulatory oversight. They enjoy the exorbitant privilege of bilking the American economy with extortionary transaction rates. They are scared of Bitcoin. And they should be. It offers transparency, cost efficiency and anonymity.” - Max Kaiser

So when MPP kicks in and HF sends out bare chips, how is everyone planning on building out the rest of the components???

HashFast clarified it won't be bare chips. It will be processing boards. I believe the OEM water cooling unit HashFast is using is also available retail from Corsair. Any CPU waterblock should be compatible if one wants to build a custom system.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The delay has NOTHING to with the foundry. Nothing. I was correcting that mistaken claim that the substrate is part of the raw wafer process. It isn't and even if it was it isn't something that HashFast would have any control over. They don't manufacture their own raw silicon ingots, cut them into wafers, polish them, etc. All that is done prior chip production.

Yep I missunderstood and thought that the substrate and silicon process was going to be done by the foundry also.

About the contract of the foundry, as you said the foundry will be the one writing the laws in the negotiation. I was just trying to point out that as there are so many factors that can make this procces into a delay, HF should have though something better than just covering their back for asking the first refunds in January.

This is an excellent question.Because we are accepting wire transfers, which can take 24 horus or more to clear, it's impossible to know the exact count at a given point in time.

John

I'm glad you think it's an excellent question so how did you come up with the initial number of 550 Super Duper Baby Airplanes? Ouija board? Perhaps you pulled it out of a certain deep anatomical cavity? Anyone who can predict future events months away with such clarity surely can make more money elsewhere or maybe not. I mean if I'm order number 551 you will send my money back right you won't take it? Perhaps a few bets you care to wager about your delivery times of all 550 Super Duper Baby Airplanes roughly somewhat sort of exactly on time. I hear there's this non-reversible internet currency you can use to place such bets. Wouldn't it be great if all these pre-order companies take all the BTC received and place it up as a bet that they will deliver on time. If they do they make many times more profits if they don't they make nothing.

This got no response from John so I guess he didn't want to bet they would deliver on time.

cypherdoc;do not feed people that are just looking to fight...It pains me to see so many people I have on ignore popping up in your replies because you quote them, you are making all my well thought out 'ignores' redundant.just use ignore, trust me. Nothing will be missed that is of value.

it's ok Minor. i'm a big boy. i can handle them myself.

the KNC trolls have a well documented method of attack. first, one will deliver an unprovoked personal attack against me. they start it; EVERY SINGLE TIME. something along the lines of how stupid HF was to hire me. this is a feeble attempt to make them look bad by making me look bad. we're all bad!

this is then followed by a pile on by other KNC trolls. we all know who they are. their motivation is clear; try to degrade and if possible destroy the competition so that their Jupiters/Saturns provide the ROI that they never will.

cypherdoc;do not feed people that are just looking to fight...It pains me to see so many people I have on ignore popping up in your replies because you quote them, you are making all my well thought out 'ignores' redundant.just use ignore, trust me. Nothing will be missed that is of value.

it's ok Minor. i'm a big boy. i can handle them myself.

the KNC trolls have a well documented method of attack. first, one will deliver an unprovoked personal attack against me. they start it EVERY SINGLE TIME. something along the lines of how stupid HF was to hire me. this is a feeble attempt to make them look bad by making me look bad. we're all bad!

this is then followed by a pile on by other KNC trolls. we all know who they are. their motivation is clear; try to degrade and if possible destroy the competition so that their Jupiters/Saturns provide the ROI that they never will.

and yes, i will respond.

I like reading your econ stuff cypherdoc but I was just curious how do their personal attacks on you can "degrade and if possible destroy the competition so that their Jupiters/Saturns provide the ROI that they never will."?