John vs. lloyd

Next he gets his information from a lib site that states this: " In our poll, 72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will give coverage to illegal immigrants, 79% of them say it will lead to a government takeover, 69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and 75% believe that it will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing care for the elderly.

I will tear this apart so even lloyd can see it.

First as said already 4 TIMES, Obama said himself MANY TIMES that his plan would cover all the 45 million people in the US that dont currently have health insurance. (now once again at least 18 million of that 45 million are illegal). So dont blame fox for reporting what Obama said himself.

Next will the government plan lead to government take over. Only a moron would think that it would not. Even the CBO (the Congressional Budget Office) says it will lead to at least 88.1 million people that currently are covered by their employers being forced into the government plan. That is only common sense though. Think about it this way if you ran a bussiness and your heath insurance currenetly cost more then 8% (the penalty the House bill has for those companies that dont have a GOVERNMENT APPROVED PLAN), which it does then wouldn't you just stop covering them. The simple and logical answer is yes. Even Paul klugman (lloyds lib hero) and Barney Frank said themselves that this is a direct link to single payer plan.

Next, as for obortions. That is easy of course it will, is there anyone here including libs that think that that would not happen in a democratic bill. If you need proof of this there was a part of the bill in committee (put in by the blue dogs and rebublicans) that specifically stated that this bill would not cover government funded obortions. You want to know what happen to that part, it got tossed out. Now you have to use your common sense again why would that part be tossed out? The common sense answer is that the way bills are inturpeded leaves plenty of room for things to be read in certain ways. The only way you cant is if there is a specific provision in the bill (like the one the democrats tossed out) that says you cant do something.

Next, as for the government making decsions on the elderlys health care, off course that will happen the fact is the government will not only be making decisions about the old but everyone. That is what happens when you have rationing. One only needs to take a look at Canada to see that. Take another look as a reminder here is the link:

Libs will never understand these things and that is why they dont see them because the other media never reports it. As an example how many of you heard Obama compare the government run US Postal service to Fed Ex as an example, EXCUSE me did he just try and use another poorly run government program that is on the verge of going bankrupt it self to how well his heath plan will work.

The flaw behind lloyds battery logic........THE COST

Fact the old batteries lasted between 5 and 7 years.

lloyd now says, see look at how long the new ones last.

The flaw (AS SAID BEFORE SEVERAL TIMES ALREADY) is the cost of these new batteries. I told his dumbass that while the time frame has increased from 5 years to between 12 and 13 years, so has the cost gone up from 5,000 dollars for the old ones to 13,000 dollars for the new ones. So once again you look like an idiot that the same thing has to be explained to you time and time again. My god you have no common sense if you cant even get the basic logic behind that.

The common sense and logic is the COST BASIS (you know what that is right) which has stayed the same, if not gone up.

lloyd you wonder why I call you names, well if after the third time you still dont get the most basic common sense and logic behind something I consider you a twit. Like I said I could careless about you at this point because you are a lost cause what I care about is you trying to turn this part of the site into your own personal propaganda site. I am only here to make you look like the idiot you are so most people dont pay attention to your dumb ass.

LOL. You can find any excuse to demonstrate your lack of class and manners.

He originally said todays hybrid batteries last 5 to 7 years. Didnt say anything about old versus new. Look at his original post and you will see what i mean.He used this short length of time to try to demonstrate that you would have to purchase new batteries at some point of the life of the car and therefore incur extra costs over the life of the hybrid.Then when i correct him and inform him they last 10 or more years he takes one whole day and numerous posts before he finds an excuse to say he was originally talking about the OLD BATTERIES not the ones in use today. LOL.Good try.

Fact:The batteries in tests are now lasting up to 180,000 miles. That means you wont have to replace them at all most likely. If you bought a car today and you had to replace the batteries 15 years from now the cost at that point would obviously be very cheap. Can you imagine the improvement in batteries over that span of time.

Fact: The prius replacement battery if you needed one now (and its not going to happen for at least 10 or more years) are sold for $3,000 today. Think computers and imagine the cost reduction in 15 years.

The point is you wont have to replace your batteries. Therefore no extra cost. The cars are getting cheaper with the newer batteries not more expensive. And they are going to be improving batteries, as i posted, to the point where in 5 to 10 years you might be able to drive up to 1000 miles on one charge. Imagine the cost savings in that!

I have posted studies that show the cars are economical now. He says they wont be economical for another 20 years. Its obvious that he is a guy who will never admit he is wrong as long as he can take a breath. LOL.

I have shown that all the car companies are investing heavily in hybrids, hybrid plug-ins and electrics and that people are increasingly buying them and loving them. They are all not stupid. He ignores all those facts to parrott his right wing Fox talking points. What's a nice guy like me to do?

Not much. Sigh. Time is on my side. i am going to sit back and enjoy this ride.

John are you crazy you just posted a link to the New York Times. Are you sure you know what your doing?

Still wondering where you got that figure of 18 million illegal immigrantts being part of the uninsured. That would be 40%. The Senate Republican policy committee says around 5 million. Just curious thats all.

Obama was candidate speaking to Planned Parenthood, and during the Q&A, the following question was asked: "You know the rights and access and rights and ability have to go hand in hand. We know that health care reform is an important part of your agenda. Could you talk, give us some specifics about how reproductive health care and women's health care is gonna fit into, be a part of primary care for women in your health care reform plans and how Planned Parenthood will continue to be a part of the health care safety net for women and families across the country?" Now, this is coded language.

When they talk about "reproductive health care," it's abortion. "Reproductive health care" is abortion (remember the group asking the question, they make their money from doing abortions). Here's Obama's answer.

OBAMA: "In my mind, uh, reproductive care is essential care. It is basic care, uh, and so it is at the center and at the heart of the plan that I propose. Essentially, uh, what we are doing is to say that, uh, we're going to set up a public plan that all persons and all women can access if they don't have health insurance. Uh, it will be a plan, uh, that will provide all essential services, including, uh, reproductive services"

Obama calls reproductive care, essential, basic care. That is the care that is in the bill that as the article above discribes. Now if you have been up on the subject of the health care bill on these threads you also saw where I put up a link that tells what the House bill actually says. Part of that is an area where this bill creats a heath panel/Czar, that will not be accountable to any court.