Roseanne Barr, the well-known comedian and actress from the popular 90’s show Roseanne is presently running for President of the United States at the head of the Peace and Justice Peace and Freedom Party. Roseanne originally ran for the nomination as a member of the Green Party, but eventually lost to the present candidate, Jill Stein.

Late last night, Roseanne wrote a few tweets challenging her former opponent for the Green Party nomination on several issues. One of the issues that came up was Jill Stein’s stance in favor of trans rights (which she discusses a bit in an interview here), which was challenged in a tweet by one @ATagonist (who’s twitter account has since been suspended). She tweeted:

Jill is also in favor of letting men [sic.] into spaces where young girls get changed

followed by a link to a recent local news story out of Olympia, Washington about a trans woman who, like any woman, was using the women’s locker room to change at a local swim facility. Two girls from a high school swim team who also use the pool complained about sharing the facilities with a trans woman, with the result that the swim team has now been asked to use a separate locker room.

A couple of points need to be made about this story right from the start. First of all, this is not a story about sexual harassment or body parts being exposed. No such accusation has even been made in the story. So those who are creating such accusations out of thin air are simply being dishonest in hopes of pushing their agenda. A couple of girls from the swim team were apparently uncomfortable sharing the locker room with a trans woman. Well, now they are using separate facilities. I suppose they are within their rights to use separate facilities if they wish, but then again I suspect that if they had just let it go then these girls and the woman in question would have hardly noticed each other after sharing the facilities once or twice.

Secondly, one of the girls from the swim team has herself commented on the article under McCassidy123, specifically stating she had no problem sharing the locker room with the trans woman. This comment seems pretty key to the conversation, yet nevertheless gets completely ignored by those who are trying to project that someone being “uncomfortable” about sharing the locker room with a trans woman is just some obvious reaction anyone would have. Well, no it’s not.

Now, let’s go ahead and deal with this issue in a calm, rational manner. Here’s a very simple rule about the locker room that pretty much addresses all of these questions: Any woman, whatsoever, cis or trans, who goes into the locker room with the intention of exposing her genitals to young women should absolutely be kicked out of the locker room.

But that isn’t what happened. By all accounts, even by the two girls who didn’t want to be in the locker room with her, she just used the facilities like anyone else and then went on about her business. So you cannot accuse her of doing things that even people who were actually there never accused her.

Well, here is how Roseanne Barr chose to respond to to @ATagonist’s anti-trans woman tweets:

Here Roseanne clearly insinuates, based on no evidence whatsoever, that pre-op or non-op trans women in general (and one can only assume, in this particular instance) use the washroom to wave their genitalia in another woman’s face. It must be pointed out that this is an absolutely bizarre statement. I mean, it’s not just that there is no evidence of the trans woman in question behaving in such a manner, I don’t understand how Roseanne comes to the conclusion that this is what trans women do in the bathroom (or locker rooms, or wherever) in general. How did she come up with this? I’m a trans woman, when I use the washroom I go into the stall and pee like any other woman would do, and then I leave. And I’ve never had any problem, and as far as I can tell, no other woman has ever had a problem with that either.

So when a trans woman goes to the washroom, does Roseanne actually assume she is there to wave her genitalia around? If so, based on what evidence? And does Roseanne expect she should know another woman’s genital configuration before that woman goes to the same bathroom? Cause I gotta say, that’s kinda weird. And frankly, I’m not sure I would be comfortable sharing the same washroom with Roseanne Barr under those circumstances.

Unfortunately, from this point it only gets worse. There was already a lot of back and forth before I joined the conversation on twitter, several hours after the issue started blowing up. I won’t attempt to report on all of it (for one thing, Roseanne has apparently deleted some of her more egregious tweets), but I will mention a few highlights and a bit about my own conversation with her.

One of the confused points she has kept trying to make is that she is not actually accusing the trans woman from Olympia of doing anything sexually inappropriate. Yet nevertheless she feels the need to tweet the following (which has apparently since been deleted):

Who is this asshole predator she is talking about? Who, in particular, is she accusing of being a predator?

(And while we are at it, “straight” is not the opposite of “transgender” since gender and sexuality are two different issues; on the contrary “cisgender” means non-transgender).

Well, we have our clear answer in this block of tweets, which were quite early in the exchange (around 11 pm, Oct. 25):

Roseanne Barr commits slander

Those statements are not at all ambiguous: Roseanne Barr is calling a specific trans woman a sexual predator based on no evidence whatsoever. (In fact, I’m tempted to question if these statements crossed some line with respect to legality?)

Nevertheless, I had the following rather odd exchange with her (Oct. 26, 8:19 pm):

Roseanne never said that (ALL THE CAPS MAKES IT TRUE!!!!)

Now I have to say, Roseanne Barr must either be a bit confused or else simply incredibly non-self aware to be able to tweet accusations that a certain individual is a sexual predator and then be able to take offense at having that fact being pointed out to her less than twenty-four hours later.

The real kicker however would have to be this one:

Roseanne Barr: classy lady

That’s right everybody, Roseanne Barr apparently thinks that supporting trans women’s right to go to the bathroom like any other woman is on par with supporting the disgusting pedophile organization NAMBLA. There’s really not even much to say after that little nugget of pure hate.

I will close this bit of the piece by jumping back to an earlier point in the conversation that I think really exposes the dark corners of this woman’s heart, even more so than the NAMBLA thing. I will address Ms. Barr directly in response to this all-too-honest tweet from Oct. 25, 10:40 pm:

Ms. Barr, let me tell you right now that as a woman, the only bathroom in which I could ever be safe would be the same bathroom used by every other woman. And you have no right to dictate what being “forced” means to me, and it’s pretty ridiculous (not to mention incredibly narcissistic) that you would attempt to speak for me or my needs in this comment.

But what you’ve really done here is something far more cynical than that. Here, I very much like this response to your tweet:

Indeed, at this point, let’s take a moment to review that comment that one of the girls from the swim team actually said for herself in defense of the trans woman in Olympia:

I am a captain of the swim team at Capital High School (one of the swim teams that practices at the college) I personally do not have any issue with the woman being in our locker room so to generalize that the “girls are uncomfortable” is not true. I feel this woman has just as much of a right to be there than anyone else and am annoyed how out of control this has gotten.

Ms. Barr, attempting to speak in my place and suggesting that it is inevitable that I should be hated is one thing, but to actually take your own hate and attempt to place it over the voice of this young woman who can speak for herself just fine and who is in fact a much better person than yourself is absolutely fucking disgusting.

Now that having been said, I would like to close this piece by making a major call-out on some people on twitter who seem to believe that they are my allies but in fact are not. Because there have been a number of people whose responses to Roseanne’s hateful ignorance have actually been almost as hateful and misogynistic as Roseanne herself, and it has made my fucking stomach churn throughout this ordeal to read that garbage. I include a few representative samples below (there’s more of this garbage).

Someone named Max says:

Some awesome trans women additionally responded and called this Max guy out on his misogyny (response to the second tweet, following my own response):

(BTW- everyone feel free to go let Max know what you think of his misogyny yourself right now!)

But there was more of this kind of shit from JuJu:

And some other jackass:

And there was at least one trans woman I saw who went along with this crap for some reason:

[Edit: After the fact, I was shown the full context of the conversation between RB and the trans woman originally mentioned here. In that case, it was clear that RB threw out trans-misogynistic insults directed at the trans woman first, before that woman then responded with some problematic comments of her own. Given that RB apparently threw out misogynistic insults first, I felt it was unfair to include this trans woman’s comment in this section. Hence an image that appeared in an earlier version of this article has now been deleted.]

Here’s the thing: I’m a woman. You can’t engage in anti-woman rhetoric as any kind of “ally” to me, because anti-woman language is an attack on me in the first place. Note that the status of genitalia makes no difference in this. For example, if someone goes around talking about trans women “mutilating their genitals” that causes social harm to me as a trans woman whether I have the surgery myself or not. Likewise, if someone engages in misogynistic rhetoric against a cis woman, that dehumanizes the class of people known as women, of which I am a member. So anyone who engages in this misogynistic language (or even excuses it) in my name, I can only say this: fuck you, get the fuck out of my movement. (Edit: I’d also just like to note that I’m not the first trans woman to call out this misogynistic crap.)

While we are at it, there is a childish phrase that is continually being used against anti-trans radical feminists, which also needs to be called out. Apparently Roseanne is friends with Obviously Roseanne retweeted several of these women, including the notorious anti-trans woman hater Cathy Brennan. Regardless, it is time to end this inane phrase “radscum” that many trans women have been using to describe these women’s hateful ideology. Yes, their ideology is hateful and patriarchal; no, that doesn’t give us permission to stoop to their level of calling names.

Trans-feminists should defeat these hateful ideologies in the realm of ideas, not in the realm of childish put-downs.

Finally, let’s bring this home by recalling who really is the most vulnerable, on average, when it comes to this bathroom debate. The fact is that numerous trans people, particularly trans women of color, have experienced brutal violence in bathroom settings.

Personally, I find Roseanne’s suggestion to solve this problem (enforced gender segregation for trans people) to be the absolute worst approach. Not only does it serve to socially stigmatize trans people (particularly trans women), but it would probably ultimately make violence worse by shining a greater spotlight on trans people’s bodies and trans people’s lives. What if a trans woman felt unsafe revealing her trans status in a given situation? Walking into the “special” bathroom would pretty much do this instantly. But then, what if she goes into the women’s bathroom to avoid this, and then she risks being put in a situation where the fact that she “broke” this idiotic rule could potentially be used as a new excuse for violence.

You know, I lived in Europe for a while, and there I noticed that many institutions took the approach exactly opposite of that proposed by Roseanne. Oftentimes I found that even multi-stall washrooms were gender neutral. Now, to be clear, that usually involves building the stall a little differently, so that it is more like a small, separate room, but I found most people, women and men, were very comfortable with this (and I think it afforded greater privacy in the individual stalls). Indeed, I don’t claim to have all the statistics on hand, but I’m fairly sure that gendered violence is less common in Europe than the U.S. (anyone who is familiar with the relevant stats, please feel free to bring this into the comments section!).

In fact, there are times that I suspect that gender-segregated bathrooms ends up subtly serving to promote violence, as it seems to promote a sort of ‘predator and prey’ model of gender and sexuality. I mean, if men and women are separated on the basis of “preventing violence,” are we not subtly suggesting to men that they can’t help themselves? Doesn’t that implicitly justify violence, if the woman fails to adequately “protect” herself in some given situation. I mean, think about it: in cultures where there is generally greater segregation between women and men, is gendered violence really less common? I don’t think that’s the case, and I think it would be better to just teach men they can control themselves, and they’d better learn to do it from day one.

Finally, let’s review a case of actual violence in the washroom. Here’s a hint, as is usually the case, the trans woman was the victim, not the perpetrator:

To read more about how false “predator” accusations are used to justify violence against trans women, read here.

She made blanket statements about trans people (trans women actually, but I don’t think she realizes trans men exist) and then when I called her out on them, she said she was talking about ONE SPECIFIC PERSON (all caps being hers).

Basically, she contradicted herself left and right and refused to address any of it. She said vile things and then dodged accountability for it because she’s more worried about her public image than the consequences of her actions. Textbook bigoted celebrity.

Indeed. Throughout this whole ordeal she has behaved in a manner that is simply childish, throwing out blanket statements and committing personal attacks, without ever pausing to consider the implications of her statements. Then a few hours later, when someone points out how hurtful and unfair her words are, she seems genuinely offended that you believe she said something so unfair… despite the fact there is a public record sitting right there in front of everybody, which shows that she said exactly what she denies she said! I mean, are we dealing with a 2 year-old here?

I think the Green Party passed her over for a reason. They probably got a sense that having her at the head of the party would just be open season for celebrity antics.

Maybe you’ve already seen this and left it aside to focus on just the Twitter stuff, but in the last couple days, thanks to tumblr, this choice passage from page 107 of Barr’s latest book “Roseannearchy: Dispatches from the Nut Farm” has also become probably more widely read than her book will be:

“Then the Transgendered versus the Butch Dyke wars started—to see two of those folks fighting about being female was quite an eye-opener for me. You haven’t lived until you have seen a huge guy with boobs talking about female hormones and deciding to keep his penis, and how that was a feminist issue.”

I had seen this, though I actually just forgot about it completely when I was writing this. In any case, thanks for posting, as it definitely helps to give insight on where the woman is coming from (and in fact sometimes it is hard to tell!)

You’re definitely right that we should show sensitivity to Ms. Barr around that issue.

However, she is running for President by her own choice and she is publicly claiming, despite all of the above, that she is an ally to trans women. We can’t just throw accountability entirely out the window under those circumstances.

If she were running for Creatrix of the Universe, I think it would deserve as much attention. I didn’t mean my comment as a criticism of your addressing her – I only meant to weigh in on the expectation that she should be reasonable or consistent.

It’s difficult to know when speaking to a silly person is worthwhile. As the opinion she expresses on this issue is fairly well in line with the broad consensus of our society, I think it’s worth commenting on. I just don’t think she should be taken as a spokesperson for transphobic ideals, and I don’t think that the best case scenario of bringing her around to your perspective should be taken as much of a victory.

Fair enough and understood. I’ll be honest that my primary concern at this point is not convincing RB to change her mind (and anyways, she has stated elsewhere to a third party that she despises me on a personal level and refuses to read this, even though her and I really didn’t interact all *that* much on twitter). My primary concern is that someone with relatively a lot of “voice” in society has made these outrageous, dehumanizing statements about women like myself, and I want to make sure that there is a public record that makes clear that her statements are indeed outrageous (non-sensical, in fact).

But I will certainly try to keep in mind what you are saying, because I agree there may be an extent to which she can’t help contradicting herself. I am also trying my best not to not let emotion cloud my judgment, even if she is incapable of doing the same. (Her recent statement, comparing trans women to Nazis, kind of makes that clear.)

I’m glad I was able to clarify my statement. Personally, I’m really disappointed in her recent escapades – not just here but elsewhere. Her sitcom remains an important cultural artifact, in my opinion. Seeing a poor family with approachable leftist politics in primetime was a significant thing, and certainly exposed me to a number of issues as a kid. Seeing her return to the spotlight over the last couple years has been pretty awful.

I guess it’s more evidence that you should never meet your heroes. Or read their twitter feeds.

can someone tell me how a girl saying another girl was trying to flirt with her “man” turned into a washed up R.Barr making transphobic judgements. This had nothing to do with the fight they didn’t seem to care weather anyone was trans or not.

Funny that R.Barr had that whole OMG she kissed a girl on T.V. thing years back but now a days she nothing more than a washed up bigot.

stupid fucking [f*****]. you’re a [woman] and you always will be. if you’ve had [bottom surgery] then you’re a eunuch. no surgeon can “sculpt” a female reproductive tract, what post-op [t****y] [transphobic comment deleted] possess is a crudely fashioned [f***hole] where their sexual organs used to be – hilarious that it’s sometimes made out of a piece of colon! you will always be broad shouldered, lantern-jawed, slim-hipped, no-waisted ghoulish parodies of femininity. ingesting estrogen pills a woman does not make. calling it “HRT” is bullshit too, hormone replacement therapy is a medically necessary regime for ACTUAL women who have suffered the loss of their uterus and ovaries. not confused, delusional homosexuals unable to accept reality. nobody wants you [transphobic comment deleted] around, particularly not around our children. go to your beloved land of “palestine“ or iran you disgusting, psychopathic [female] creep – i’m sure you can enjoy all the buttsex you can handle from a [racist caricature deleted] or [racist caricature deleted] while you plot the downfall of “israeli apartheid“ and teh ebil twanzphobic western capitalist civilization. fucking disgrace to the human race. vomit.

LEFTYTGIRL EDIT: You have a great deal of insight into these issues and you sound like a very pleasant individual… let’s do lunch sometime?

You know, my friend checked the IP address you are posting from, and it turns out you posted this through some kind of web anonymizer to hide your identity. It’s funny because you’re trying to project an air of confidence while you’re writing all this trash talk, but it turns you’ve written it all while cloaked in secrecy; you aren’t capable of actually putting your name beside of your crude, unimaginative mind garbage because you’re a fucking worthless coward.

And you know what the real irony is? If you wrote this crap anywhere else, I’m sure no one would even read it who didn’t see the world in the same twisted terms as you anyways. In other words, your best chance at sharing the garbage that occupies your mind is to come here on my blog and hope that I will post your comment (which I did, because I don’t take it seriously). So as much as you try to belittle me, it turns out that the best chance you have at even telling your story is to hide in the shadows while clinging to my intellect.

This is definitely one of the most hilarious and entertaining threads I have followed is quite some time. With all the problems mankind faces in todays enlightened world, what could be more irrelevant than a group of man hating females getting their knickers in a knot about some demented dickless male trying to pass off as female. A male person who had his dick cut off is no more female than a female person wearing a strapon. This type of man has definite psychological issues and has no business hanging around a changing room for young women. Notwithstanding their politically correct response, the young women must have been uncomfortable hence this feminist fooforaw.

What could me more irrelevant… I dunno, maybe every word that comes out of your mouth? You want to dismiss me and feminism both, but the fact that you’re reading my blog is testament to the fact that we are having an impact.