Who cares who is paying for propaganda on either side? Do the majority of the people of Milwaukee want it or not? Anecdotal evidence would suggest that we do not. Unfortunately one side of the discussion is VERY afraid of the truth.

What is it about this project that gets opponents so worked up? It isn’t nearly as much money as we spend on roads every year. I’m not surprised that people are against it. I’m surprised by the intensity of their opposition. It’s not exactly the California bullet train.

OH MY GOD! The Koch brothers are behind actually letting the PEOPLE vote on the spending of tax dollars. How horrible can it get??? This should never be allowed! The people are too stupid to know how to spend their money!

@Ken by that logic there should be a referendum for every public works project/improvement. Widen the hwys? Referendum. New playground? Referendum. Replace Hoan Bridge? Referendum. Building a dam? Referendum.
I think we have to remember that we live in a republic with elected representatives. This isn’t ancient Greece were the general free population all met on a regular basis and voted for every little thing. That just isn’t efficient with modern populations.

@PJ… If you want to talk about anecdotal evedence than there is much more interest in the streetcar than not. The city wanted to gage interest in the streetcar do they put the question of support or not on the Nov, 2008 ballot. Approval rate was around 75%.

Fair enough David. But I would argue that the current “winds” are blowing against it, at least in most circles. Six years is an eternity in politics and public opinion. Since we’re spending the money now, we should know if we want it now. I would agree with Casey that not everything needs to go to a referendum however, when an issue is as polarizing as this, what’s the harm?

@David Don’t go clouding the issue with facts! Many, many people in my neighborhood, Bay View, appear to be for a more robust public transit system, yet, our guy, Tony Zielinski, claims that some of his constituents don’t want it. But now his sounds bites are focused on helping the “inner city.” This whole thing is slippery. And our opportunities to become a 21st century city also slip away.

Don’t know how I feel about Bruce’s reporting. He said to me once, “the Ament story was the gift that keeps on giving.” he appears, at times, to be feeding the likes of North Shore Kliesmet, who has very much benefitted from government programs, public schools being number one.

Suddenly public spending or government spending becomes a problem for AFP but where are they when the Pentagon spends for a ship that is almost defenseless (the “Littorals”) or a bomber that can’t fly with armaments on board or a defenseless truck (the original humvee) is being built! How about a referendum on the next destroyer to be built? or bomber or tank? Oh yeah, we have to match Islamic radicals and their navies and air forces! Never mind!

tomw, who said I (we) aren’t upset about that too? Waste in government (and our crushing debt) is everyone’s problem whether it is in the Pentagon or the US DOT. We (the US taxpayer) can’t afford useless armaments or inefficient transportation systems.

Bruce, we met a few years back, right after the Ament exposé. My comment isn’t directed at you, but the near-muckraking reporting that leads to wholesale bashing of institutions. CRG, and it’s suburban posse, cherry picks and strives to destroy any government that doesn’t fit its extreme laissez-faire wet dream.

AFP wants in on local school boards and God knows what else. They’re relentless in their efforts. They also view Wisconsin as a test bed for turning every state into Mississippi or Alabama.
The question for street car opponents should be this: Do you want Milwaukee to be the last or the largest major American city not to have fixed rail transit? How does that distinction serve the city (or the metro area) going forward?
Bad enough Scott Walker has already kicked WI back into the 20th Century by rejecting high speed rail, kicking Talgo in the teeth and dooming up to 500 jobs in the process. Talgo is one of the most well-respected companies in Europe. Now the entire European business community knows Wisconsin as a state with weird politics that breaks its contracts.
The federal money in the case of the streetcar isn’t fungible. It won’t fund additional police or fill pot holes. Bonds can be issued for the rest. If we don’t take this the money, as with the funds for high speed rail, we don’t take this the money will go to a more deserving city — more deserving because, unlike Milwaukee, that city would actually have an interest in moving forward.

“If I had access to any appreciable funding, certainly, you’d have seen a print or a radio ad. Those are quite expensive. You’ve seen neither of those. You don’t see this army of paid circulators out there,” Kliesmet says.

Kliesmet says the only contributions he’s gotten are from people dropping off $20 checks here and there, but he would gladly accept more.”

So the ultimate Climate Disaster Capitalists are trying to defeat streetcar in Milwaukee. They live among the bubble of climate change deniers, and will do anything to grow its dirty industries. Any mass transit project that does not use their dirty energy is viewed as a threat to their bottom line. As Upton Sinclair once said ” It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.’ So it is with the Koch brothers. Here’s hoping Milwaukee overcomes their moneyed ignorance, and starts its way to becoming part of the solution to climate change with the approval of the first of many streetcar and mass transit lines that Milwaukee needs.

“Interesting but this new trolley will be suing dirty energy from coal.”

And why is that, WCD? Seems to me, you and your ilk have fought every effort to ween Wisconsin off coal and non renewable energy at every possible opportunity. Oh, and never mind the fact that electric streetcars emit less emissions per passenger mile than that of your 4 wheel friends…even if that electricty comes from your beloved coal power plants.

I am not entirely convinced that this project is the best use of public transportation funds. However, the opponents do not seem to be suggesting any other way to improve public transport in Milwaukee. In fact, these folks seem to have an almost visceral dislike of public transportation in general. I wonder why. Actually, I don’t wonder. It’s because the public would use it. You know, “those people.” “Those people” might find it easier to leave “their” neighborhoods and enter those of their “betters.” Public transport to jobs and schools is an absolutely vital aspect of social mobility. Perhaps that is the real problem.

dave, nothing you ever says is worth answering or casts any light on the subject. And John, that is really a nasty note, the only people that have spent any time trying to help the inner city are Conservative. Under Doyle, Barrett, the Left wing school board and nutty County board, has happened, it is worse now than it was 50 years ago. The white racist liberals have destroyed the people in the inner city with their lack of answers to problems and their programs Under Obama, they are worse off then they were in 2008.

Such a big effort here to blow smoke in our eyes. Really, the Kock Bros. again? You are sounding more like Harry Reid than sensible thinkers. Pulling the specious political plots is more like getting stuck on stupid. The facts are that the liberal progressives have out spent anything that is attributed to the Kock Brothers have made.. This article sounds more like kock envy rather than anything worthy of our time and attention. Put the game away. It’s out dated. This is the sort of stuff that keeps a city from entering the next century. Go to confession. Lent & Easter is coming soon. Ash Wed. can’t come soon enough. repent !

There is no reason the streetcar has to use coal-generated electricity. In Canada, Calgary’s light rail system (with daily ridership roughly twice that of MCTS) powers the entire thing from wind power.

We Energies offers “Energy for Tomorrow” (57% from wind, none from coal or other fossil fuel) for 2¢ extra per kWh. Since the streetcar’s first phase is expected to use 1.4 million kWh annually, the streetcar could dump coal entirely for a mere $28,000 per year.

This comes to just 1% of the streetcar’s annual operating budget and points out another huge difference between buses and streetcars: There is no way that MCTS could dump fossil fuels at anywhere near 1% of its operating budget.

I’d love to see somebody establish a charitable fund to accept private sector contributions toward this $28,000 annual expense. I would personally contribute to this worthy goal (and I don’t even live in Wisconsin).

I sure would have invited Dr. King to eat he was great man. If he had followed Maclom X instead of Gandhi this country would have been in another Civil war. Plus his message was right on. My relatives fought to en slavery long time ago. He probably would have asked the question of why we were spending the transit money for a yuppie train instead of improving the bus system for the inner city.

I’m happy to hear that. Back in the day I would have put his approval rating with whites at 10% max. Tossup as to who was more hated back then, Fr. Groppi or Dr. King. Now it’s almost impossible to hear someone say they didn’t like them.

WCD and others have spent money on Facebook sponsored posts in opposition. The Pabst Theater has spent money on ads encouraging people to make their voice heard on the issue. Mueller Communications had something to do with the full page ad in the Journal Sentinel, but I don’t know if they paid for it.

Given that most of the planning money (which pays for official communications) is federal money, it can’t be used for lobbying. That’s why you’ll see TheMilwaukeeStreetcar.com is a just the facts website.

and so what. The people know the story and they will be getting out just as they were in Kenosha.

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