musical ephiany

I had a musical epiphany on talkbass.com! I'm very new here (this is actually my first post) and I was reading through the forum's and read some comments by backtoschool and brendan. I just dawned on me that brendan's opinion of Korn is the epitomy of everything I don't want to be when it comes to music. I don't want to hate any music! A wave of respect for all kinds of music came over me. I may not like all kinds, I prefer the down tuned stuff and classic rock, but don't hate anymusic, I used to but something just clicked and said "no, that ain't the way it was supposed to be" hating music ain't the way to go", you gotta respect everyone who picks up an instrument (even if it's their voice) and respect what they do! I may not enjoy hearing country music, but I can respect it. I may not enjoy 80's hair bands, but I respect it. Music is a beautiful gift from God and no matter what it is, it's still music and still to be respected, not hated.

Originally posted by und I had a musical epiphany on talkbass.com! I'm very new here (this is actually my first post) and I was reading through the forum's and read some comments by backtoschool and brendan. I just dawned on me that brendan is the epitomy of everything I don't want to be when it comes to music.

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i'm amazed that you know brendan well enough to make such a comment. have you ever met him? or heard him play? i've been here a while, and conversed with him a few times, and i don't think i could make such a statement, one way or the other.

I don't want to hate any music! A wave of respect for all kinds of music came over me.

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even poorly performed music? how bout music that is performed with no respect towards the listener, the instruments or the artform itself? how bout misogynistic or racist diatribes set to a drum machine?

I may not like all kinds, I prefer the down tuned stuff and classic rock, but don't hate anymusic, I used to but something just clicked and said "no, that ain't the way it was supposed to be" hating music ain't the way to go",

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that's a noble sentiment, except when it is used to substitute for exercising one's "god" given ability to make a subjective decision about quality and desirability of a particular bit of music, or any other art for that matter.

you gotta respect everyone who picks up an instrument (even if it's their voice) and respect what they do!

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no i don't. in fact, if anybody is going to get any respect from me, they had better expect to earn it. i hold the musicians that i listen to to the same high standards that i hold myself to. otherwise i'd be a hypocrite.

I may not enjoy hearing country music, but I can respect it. I may not enjoy 80's hair bands, but I respect it. Music is a beautiful gift from God and no matter what it is, it's still music and still to be respected, not hated.

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again, a noble sentiment, but any kind of blanket statement like "all music is good and worthy of respect" is bound to get you in trouble.

and next time, try not to publicly single out a member of the board for negative comments. if you have a problem with somebody, take it to email. otherwise, keep the names out of it. if you disagree with brendan's view points, or anybody elses for that matter, mention the _viewpoint_ you disagree with and leave the name out of it.

Sorry Mr. Turner for having a different opinion than yours. But what I said is what I said.

"how bout misogynistic or racist diatribes set to a drum machine?"
I don't agree with the racist message one bit but I don't hate the music itself, just the message. (example: I don't hate you for your diatribe post, just the post itself)

"no i don't. in fact, if anybody is going to get any respect from me, they had better expect to earn it. i hold the musicians that i listen to to the same high standards that i hold myself to. otherwise i'd be a hypocrite."
Are you saying that you don't have respect for beginners? I'm still a beginner at bass and I am not the greatest, but if I'm just having fun and play a little riff i made up in my head I'm proud of it. I can have respect for other people who are also beginners. This is an incredibly egotystical statement to say that you don't have respect for other musicians, just the ones that have the high honor of getting it from you.

"again, a noble sentiment, but any kind of blanket statement like "all music is good and worthy of respect" is bound to get you in trouble."
You must be quoting someone else, because i don't recall saying "all music is good and worthy of respect", I DO NOT appreciate being misquoted and then being ripped for it!

Normally I wouldn't reply like this but it pissed me off someone would tear down every-single-one of my OPINIONS and STATEMENTS. I don't care if you have different opinions, Mr. Turner, but you could show me some respect.

I would also like to apologize to Brendan, I was using his views he displayed as a specific example, but I do know I shouldn't have singled him out, that was wrong and I apologize.

I'm completely turned off that expressing my opinions who cause me to get harassed. Does this happen every time some one post something? I just thought it would be an interesting experience to share with other music lovers! Had I known that someone would tear my experience to shreads, I would have never shared it. This will probally be the last time I ever go to this site, now that I know different opinions are not welcome.

Originally posted by und Sorry Mr. Turner for having a different opinion than yours. But what I said is what I said.

"how bout misogynistic or racist diatribes set to a drum machine?"
I don't agree with the racist message one bit but I don't hate the music itself, just the message. (example: I don't hate you for your diatribe post, just the post itself)

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But, if voice is part of music, and the voice is transmitting a racist message, and you don't agree with the message, then how can you agree with the music as a whole?

(I get into this debate with myself often, as I enjoy a few bands who have very questionable viewpoints but very interesting music... I think the answer lies in whether the questionable viewpoints are expressed in the music or not. But then there's that problem of sponsering such a group by buying their music to begin with.)

Are you saying that you don't have respect for beginners? I'm still a beginner at bass and I am not the greatest, but if I'm just having fun and play a little riff i made up in my head I'm proud of it. I can have respect for other people who are also beginners. This is an incredibly egotystical statement to say that you don't have respect for other musicians, just the ones that have the high honor of getting it from you.

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I think maybe you're confusing decency with respect.

On the other hand, maybe JT is right about earning respect. Respect can be easily earned, by simply not doing something stupid, lame, or dangerous, and being generally intelligent. He was questioning your statements, giving you the opertunity to show your intelligence, and hence, earn respect. As it is, you got defensive instead.

"again, a noble sentiment, but any kind of blanket statement like "all music is good and worthy of respect" is bound to get you in trouble."
You must be quoting someone else, because i don't recall saying "all music is good and worthy of respect", I DO NOT appreciate being misquoted and then being ripped for it!

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He wasn't quoting you. He was creating a example of a blanket statement similar to your original post. You spoke of all music needing respect. He simply mimicked your blanket statement to say that all music is GOOD and needing respect. Either one is a blanket statement and therefore subject to scrutiney (or however you spell it).

Normally I wouldn't reply like this but it pissed me off someone would tear down every-single-one of my OPINIONS and STATEMENTS. I don't care if you have different opinions, Mr. Turner, but you could show me some respect.

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If you'll note, he wasn't tearing down your statements and opinions, he was questioning you. Defend yourself intelligently and you'll get that respect you desire. Getting defensive doesn't do you any good; rather, it will do you harm.

Further, you should note that he was posting as moderator, which means that when he was asking you not to pick out a single person, he was trying to keep the board clean and positive.

I would also like to apologize to Brendan, I was using his views he displayed as a specific example, but I do know I shouldn't have singled him out, that was wrong and I apologize.

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There, that was easy and very respectable.

I'm completely turned off that expressing my opinions who cause me to get harassed. Does this happen every time some one post something? I just thought it would be an interesting experience to share with other music lovers! Had I known that someone would tear my experience to shreads, I would have never shared it. This will probally be the last time I ever go to this site, now that I know different opinions are not welcome.

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As I expressed above, you weren't harassed, you were questioned. You made some sweeping statements, and JT was calling your bluff. Or maybe you weren't bluffing. Either way, he was asking for a further explination.

I find it somewhat ironic that you start off posting here by responding to a thread which ended up with people of different opinions having a casual, calm discussion, and end by getting mad when someone with a different opinion than yourself voices his.

1. as pertains to the comments about the fellow board member, i was offering a strong suggestion in my role as moderator for future reference, and to hopefully stop a potential flame war before it began. since i am not a moderator in this particular forum, only in "off topic" this was offered in as much a "suggestion" format as i could muster.

2. as pertains to the comments about earning respect, i was offering my opinions on the topic as an individual that has spent the past 16 years pursuing excellence as a musician and bass player.

i think in a way i am at fault in that my roles as moderator and list member perhaps didn't stay separated sufficiently, which may have been confusing. for that i apologize, i should've seperated them into 2 different posts for clarity.

but then again, i wasn't attacking anybody, just countering opinions with those of my own.

Originally posted by und Sorry Mr. Turner for having a different opinion than yours. But what I said is what I said.

you see up there, under my name, where it says "MODERATOR"? that means, among other things, that i (along with the other moderators) need to make sure that members here get along. that includes nipping flame wars in the bud. when anybody singles out an individual for some negative comments, that person is setting themselves and the board up for negative bickering.

if i wasn't a moderator i would not have cared what you said about brandon, although i still would've offered my opinions on what you've said about earning respect.

"how bout misogynistic or racist diatribes set to a drum machine?"
I don't agree with the racist message one bit but I don't hate the music itself, just the message. (example: I don't hate you for your diatribe post, just the post itself)

oh, i get it, if someone disagrees with you and says so, that's a diatribe. hmm.

"no i don't. in fact, if anybody is going to get any respect from me, they had better expect to earn it. i hold the musicians that i listen to to the same high standards that i hold myself to. otherwise i'd be a hypocrite."
Are you saying that you don't have respect for beginners?

i respect their endeavour to play and their drive, but of course i don't respect them as players yet. duh. why should i? "respect" is worthless lip service unless it is earned.

furthermore, you seem to be taking this personally. why? i've never heard you play, i didn't say anything about you, i just countered your opinion with one of my own. what's wrong with that?

I'm still a beginner at bass and I am not the greatest, but if I'm just having fun and play a little riff i made up in my head I'm proud of it. I can have respect for other people who are also beginners. This is an incredibly egotystical statement to say that you don't have respect for other musicians, just the ones that have the high honor of getting it from you.

do you mean to say "just the ones that have the high honor of earning it from" me? if so, then yeah, you're right, so? how is that "egotystical" ?

there is a big difference between keeping an open mind and giving respect. i have always kept an open mind, i give many music styles more than a chance, but i don't shower props on someone without them earning it. i have more foreign language and import cds in my collection than most people have total cds in theirs.

is it bad that i hold musicians to high standards? and how did you get any personal attacks out of anything that i have said?

"again, a noble sentiment, but any kind of blanket statement like "all music is good and worthy of respect" is bound to get you in trouble."
You must be quoting someone else, because i don't recall saying "all music is good and worthy of respect", I DO NOT appreciate being misquoted and then being ripped for it!

where were you ripped? i think you are taking me a bit too seriously, and WAY too personally.

okay, since you want to pick nits, your EXACT QUOTE was...

"you gotta respect everyone who picks up an instrument (even if it's their voice) and respect what they do!"

i figured you meant "music" by "respect what they do" so i paraphrased a bit. furthermore, the answer is still no, i don't have to respect everyone who pics up an instrument. what about people who say they only want to play to get laid, or to get rich? what about so-called "musicians" who make crappy music? those that don't try? why should i respect them?

Normally I wouldn't reply like this but it pissed me off someone would tear down every-single-one of my OPINIONS and STATEMENTS.

how did i tear them down? by offering countering opinions? isn't that what we're here for?

I don't care if you have different opinions, Mr. Turner, but you could show me some respect.

1. how did i not show you any respect? by not agreeing with everything you said? you should look up the definition of respect. i respected your viewpoints enough to address them. if i didn't respect your viewpoints, i would've ignored them.

2. what are you doing to earn any respect now? you're acting like a baby because i countered your viewpoints with ones of my own. i thought this was supposed to be a discussion. as for correcting you with regards to another list member, just take it as a suggestion from a moderator out of his jurisdiction - that's what we're supposed to do, as a moderators, in order to help "keep the peace". don't take it personally.

I would also like to apologize to Brendan, I was using his views he displayed as a specific example, but I do know I shouldn't have singled him out, that was wrong and I apologize.

I'm completely turned off that expressing my opinions who cause me to get harassed.

how were you harassed? i disagreed with you. is that harassment?

Does this happen every time some one post something? I just thought it would be an interesting experience to share with other music lovers! Had I known that someone would tear my experience to shreads, I would have never shared it. This will probally be the last time I ever go to this site, now that I know different opinions are not welcome.

that's pretty hypocritical right there - my opinions differ from yours and you surely didn't welcome them, did you? in fact, since someone didn't agree with you right off the bat, you're going to leave? sounds like you don't welcome too much divergent opinions or viewpoints.

I could see how und could take it as a personal attack. und shared a personal experience of their "musical epiphany" and und's points were questioned (and und's points were personal convictions and being questioned on your personal convictions will cause a person to take it personally, especially if they are not used to the usual disagreements on opinions that take place in this miscellaneous forum). While someone posting is certainly in his or her right to question und's comments on Brendan and raise interesting points, I think it might have went to far with a first time post.

i actually think that one things kind of funny, if you look up at mr. turners first response, he goes, "welcome to the board und", and then proceeds to rip the hell out of his post and absolutely bury it. what a great way to greet him on his first post, i mean jeez, maybe he didnt totally support every one of his statements, but it was the guys first post for cryn out loud. i dont blame if he never comes back, he was greeted with total negativity.

Originally posted by und I was reading through the forum's and read some comments by backtoschool and brendan. It just dawned on me that brendan's opinion of Korn is the epitomy of everything I don't want to be when it comes to music.

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This is a part of his first post. If you can dish it out, you'd better be prepared to take it.

BTW, backtoschool, good points. And as a newbie yourself, be advised that you can delete your double post (and explanation ) all by yourself!

Welcome to TB und!

And yeah, what the heck IS lung butter? Is that some sort of medical term?

what does that have to do with what the original poster said. the person that the comment was directed at hasnt even posted in this thread, so because he made a comment about someone, then all these other people jump on him. he didnt even make a comment about the guy, he made a comment about the guys opinion being the ipitomy of what he didnt want to be, regarding music. the post that started this thread wasnt negative at all, in my opinion, but the immediate response was. thats a damn shame.

"what are you doing to earn any respect now? you're acting like a baby because i countered your viewpoints with ones of my own"

That's great, a moderator calling peoples names. I can take the high road.

If anyone has anything positive to post, that would be also be great. I guess I was hoping people would share their experiences with music and how it effected them, I didn't really think someone would even want to argue with mine.

I think if you put up a controversial statement, then you have to firstly be prepared and to defend it and secondly expect that some (or maybe all) people will disagree.

I also think that one of the most worrying tendencies that I perceive in "the "youth of today" (OK I'm Old! )is that they think they deserve respect, when they haven't actually done anything and have no notable talents or achievements. This - IMO - does not bode well for the future.

It sounds to people of earlier generations like - I can do what I like, mess around, don't have to try very hard, but you still have to be nice to me. Well - life isn't like that and the people handing out jobs or gigs are probably going to be of the slightly older generation who expect you to prove yourself!

If you truly seek an answer to this (I guess that you did since no smilies accompanied the question), I would speculate that the good Doc mikemulcahy is referring to a substance that one might produce when taking an expectorant.

BTW, you are as eloquent as ever as demonstrated here. Keep up the good work. However, I wonder at times if your words are just browsed and not truly read before responses are returned.

If you truly seek an answer to this (I guess that you did since no smilies accompanied the question), I would speculate that the good Doc mikemulcahy is referring to a substance that one might produce when taking an expectorant.

yikes! i thought so.thanks for telling me. i might've ordered that on a bagel next time i was at einsteins.

BTW, you are as eloquent as ever as demonstrated here. Keep up the good work. However, I wonder at times if your words are just browsed and not truly read before responses are returned.

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thanks. and yeah, you're probably right, i guess i need to type more slowly and with lots of smilies so i am not misunderstood . .