The league passed on Brees due to his height and his play in the Spread.

The league passed on Geno Smith because of his lack of leadership skills, lack of charisma and lack of maturity.

Absolutely none of that is relevant. You're getting caught up in minutia. The point is the drop, not why the drop happened. Time proved that the league was wrong to pass on Brees, for whatever reason (and I was wrong personally, about him; I never thought he would thrive in the NFL). And they may have been wrong about Smith as well. Or they may not. There's absolutely no way of knowing either way at this point.

Simply put, if Smith becomes a good player, then the teams that didn't select him before the Jets, whatever their reasoning for it, made a mistake.

Same for us, re: Fisher. If he's a 10 year starter with a couple of pro bowls, and Joeckel is a hall of famer, we ****ed up. If it's the other way around, then we didn't.

In the end, a lot of people have it backwards: a player is not defined by where he's picked. Rather, the pick is defined by how the player performs. As I said before, you can't win anything on draft day.

Absolutely none of that is relevant. You're getting caught up in minutia. The point is the drop, not why the drop happened.

At this point in time, it is relevant. It just happened a few months ago. These guys haven't yet played a pre-season game, let alone, a regular season game.

The reason why players were passed over or taken where they were taken will matter until they've actually started and played in the league. Once they've proven they belong, they'll be rewarded. If they don't, they'll be cut.

But as of today, why a guy slipped or didn't slipped is relevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Time proved that the league was wrong to pass on Brees, for whatever reason (and I was wrong personally, about him; I never thought he would thrive in the NFL). And they may have been wrong about Smith as well. Or they may not. There's absolutely no way of knowing either way at this point.

The draft is an educated guess. A guess based on research, behavior, performance on the field, work ethic and other intangibles. Given the recent success of other second round QB's (Dalton and Kaepernick), Smith may thrive in the NFL. But for whatever reason, NFL front offices didn't feel he was worthy of a first round pick.

At this point in time, that's all that matters is that Smith wasn't deemed worthy of a first round pick.

At this point in time, it is relevant. It just happened a few months ago. These guys haven't yet played a pre-season game, let alone, a regular season game.

The reason why players were passed over or taken where they were taken will matter until they've actually started and played in the league. Once they've proven they belong, they'll be rewarded. If they don't, they'll be cut.

But as of today, why a guy slipped or didn't slipped is relevant.

Sorry, but no, it's not relevant in any way, shape or form to the point that I was making.

As you mention yourself in your next paragraph: For whatever reason, NFL front offices didn't feel he was worthy of a first round pick. That's a comment which would be just as valid for Drew Brees as it was for Geno Smith. It doesn't matter 'why' they thought that, only that they did. And later on, he proved them wrong. Which Geno Smith might do, too. Or he might not.

In any case, Smith isn't defined by the 39th pick any more than Brees was defined by the 32nd, or Mark Sanchez was defined by the 5th, or Tim Tebow by the 25th, or Joe Montana by the 82nd. I know you want him to be, because you're tired of hearing his name, but players' values are proven on the field, not on the podium.

Sorry, but no, it's not relevant in any way, shape or form to the point that I was making.

As you mention yourself in your next paragraph: For whatever reason, NFL front offices didn't feel he was worthy of a first round pick. That's a comment which would be just as valid for Drew Brees as it was for Geno Smith. It doesn't matter 'why' they thought that, only that they did. And later on, he proved them wrong. Which Geno Smith might do, too. Or he might not.

In any case, Smith isn't defined by the 39th pick any more than Brees was defined by the 32nd, or Mark Sanchez was defined by the 5th, or Tim Tebow by the 25th, or Joe Montana by the 82nd. I know you want him to be, because you're tired of hearing his name, but players' values are proven on the field, not on the podium.

I'm sorry, I disagree.

Not only does it matter where guys were chosen because of their contracts, it also matters because of expectations.

Teams expect first round players to perform like first round players. They don't expect sixth round players to perform like first round players.

There are built-in expectations for each and every player drafted. Whether they fail to meet those expectations or exceed them remains to be seen.

Not only does it matter where guys were chosen because of their contracts, it also matters because of expectations.

Teams expect first round players to perform like first round players. They don't expect sixth round players to perform like first round players.

There are built-in expectations for each and every player drafted. Whether they fail to meet those expectations or exceed them remains to be seen.

And what I'm saying is that failing to meet those expectations, or exceeding them, is ultimately what defines the value of a draft pick.

It's pretty simple, you're taking the fact that Geno Smith was drafted 39th (a whopping 7 picks later than Drew Brees...) as a justification for writing him off as a player. Which you are clearly doing when you posit he might at best become an "average to above average player". You're defining him by the position in which he was drafted.

Whereas I'm saying there's little to no point in quantifying a player now.

If, in say 5 years, Smith's bagging groceries at Kroger, then I will certainly agree with the "whew we dodged a bullet there!" sentiment. Similarly, if he's one of, say, the top 10 QBs in the league, I'll probably think something along the lines of "man, I wish we had that guy".

In any event, all I can really think right now is "man, I wish we hadn't traded those picks for Alex Smith, because I don't think he's proven himself to be anything more than a complementary player reliant upon those around him, rather than a leader capable of elevating the play of his team mates" on one hand and "I wonder how Tyler Bray will turn out, probably nothing" on the other, with the occasional distant wonder at how Geno Smith is doing with the Jets.

(And I hate the Jets, so I have definite mixed feelings there. Part of me hopes he continues the Sanchez bomb trend so that team can stay in the sewers.)