i went to OSU and watch every game, heyward is anything but soft, plus he is a straight shooter and a very hard worker with the meauseables BB likes. I think it is easier to find a OLB in the 3-4 as opposed to finding a seymore type 3-4 DE.

nate and ALL : NFL Draft=I've stated it before, BETTER than the Superbowl for some of us...including me. In regards to nates mock offered above, and at least also in terms, of the positional targeting I'd ideally want NE to focus on #1 and #2 (figuring the draft falls correctly for the pats; i.e. a perfect world)-THIS 2011 Mock Draft has nailed it...at least positionally, that is.... New England ABSOLUTELY NEEDS a good 3-4 DE, And with so many more teams transitioning to 3-4 D's and considering that there, for some reason, seems to be a lack of 6'4-6'6 285-300lb, Impact Collegiate NFL Prospects with pass-rush repetoires, strength to stand their ground vs the run, And the intelligence and selflessness to do all this and be successful against not 1, but 2 pro NFL O-lineman on every play, without complaint and in a defensive front that offers infinitely less stats, highlights, and glamour...but it's infinitely far tougher....Again, for some strange reason, These guys that just "might" even nominally become even a somewhat decent 3-4 DE, have gone earlier and earlier and earlier in each and every draft class... Ya don't gots a Top 10-maybe 15 selection=You're outta the running. And The Patriots NEVER ever do...until this year. BUT here's my prob...I honestly, Don't like ANY of these Top 3-4 DEs in this '11 Class. I liked (somewhat), Nebraska's Jared Crick...but he's shown that life without Suh anchoring the other side of his D-Line, ain't quite as fun...nor even close to as remotely successful for himself. SEE, I trully NEED my 3-4 DE at the very least 6'4...I'd LIKE him very much so, to be 6'5-6'6 and 290 or thereabouts... I KNOW this sounds extremely presumptuous, and I honestly have seen next to nothing in terms of filmwork on Dareus, but I don't want a guy @ 6'3 306lbs. Irregardless, big chance he'll be 3-4 DE #1, Top 3 selection....and gone before NE chooses. Miami's Allen Bailey=Would be my unhappy Choice #1, for 3-4 DEs that will be available for NE. 6'4 288lbs, EXTREMELY athletic and talented, UTTERLY inconsistant collegiate career thus far (until his draft year, of course)=Yippee! Cameron Heyward, PERFECTion under my size and physical criterion @ 6'6 and 287lbs, but SEVERAL scouting reports say that he's not just inconsistant also, but "Extremely Soft" as well. Don't know enough about Arizona State's Lawrence Guy (1 year wonder?)... Too hiogh anyway, and far too high for another even more mediocre 3-4 DE, further down the list of prospects. I want...No, I NEED NE to nab a good 3-4 DE...but I ain't sold on single one'of 'em????? As it stands, as of Right Now, I'd much rather have a true superb left/right OT (depending on Vollmer), And even far moreso, Pittsburgh's WR Jonathen Baldwin=6'5 225lbs, Big possessional target with excellent hands and size, already successfully playing with good stats up here in the NE in the cold weather. Projected Top 15 selection, behind AJ Green=And with Moss gone, even IF he's not the burner Moss was=Still a far better pick than a 3-4 DE that I NEED to be sold on yet...but ain't... Same goes for Ingram....but that's another story. BTW, any of the other Draft-nuts got any inside info on up-and-comer Illinois RB, Mikel Lishoure=6'1 228lbs...power and speed, translating as I've said again and again=A bigger RB being far more successful in NE's smaller, agile (built for passing), zone-blocking scheme, with between the tackle abilities to keep spear-heading 4-3 DDTs towards Brady, far more honest in their gap-shooting without any interior RB big threat (see Maroney). ANY info on this Lishoure guy would be appreciated...Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium

Yes we need a stud 34 DE. There are a couple of guys who fit the mold, Heyward and Bailey come to mind. But can anyone argue our biggest need is at OLB? We have Banta-Cain (2003-7th), Ninkovich (2005-5th NO), Crable (2008-3) and Fletcher (2010 UDRFA). If Akeem Ayers comes out we need to be all over him. OLB is his natural position and he has the measurables (6-4, 254, 4.68) we look for in the position. He's a natural pass rusher with speed to cover. I'm hoping he'll be there with our pick in the first but by draft day he could be a top 10 pick. Posted by Faucetman

Ayers would be good but I honestly think Jeremy Beal would fit better. He's a good to great college pass rusher with the ability to drop back and cover if need be. Ayers has trouble with blockers who can keep up with his speed and has trouble wrapping up tackles. Plus Beal should be around in late 1st early second

In Response to amazing mock draft : That would be a horrible draft for the Patriots. I'd take Bailey or Luck (by far the best QB available...how many chances do you have to draft a franchise QB, and groom him behind Brady) over Heyward, though I could live with a Heyward pick. But, I'd disown the Pats if they took Ingram...especially with Ayers available. Ingram is damaged goods (has had knee surgery). Plus, didn't you learn anything from the 2006 draft, when the Pats took Laurence Maroney with the 21st overall pick?Posted by TexasPat3

The Patriots selecting Maroney in Rd 1 has zero relevancy to Mark Ingram. With that logic, teams should avoid drafting a player at any position in which a first round pick (in that position) turned out to be a bust.

In Response to Re: amazing mock draft : The Patriots selecting Maroney in Rd 1 has zero relevancy to Mark Ingram. With that logic, teams should avoid drafting a player at any position in which a first round pick (in that postion) turned out to be a bust. Posted by mbeaulieu07

In Response to Re: amazing mock draft : Not at first it won't Tex, but Brady is now signed through 2014. Why spend a premium pick on a franchise QB that you plan to sit for 4 years? That's still an expensive insurance policy, plus we could be taking an impact player at another position that can help us now. Posted by Faucetman

First of all, this so-called "amazing mock draft" was made up by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. Luck is the top QB prospect by far...and has franchise QB written all over him. He'll be the top pick ion the 2011 draft, not Locker.

Secondly, if Luck did fall to the Pats, they would have a franchise QB drop into their laps. The NFL is a QB driven league. If you check the "power ratings" thread that I've posted, you'll see that all the bottom teams have one thing in common...QB problems. Tom Brady can't go on forever. If the Pats took Luck (which, again, won't happen, because he's going to be the top pick in the draft), assuming he stays healthy, they'll be getting a guy who could be the Brady or Manning for the next generation. This would assure the #1 goal of the franchise...to be a contending team every year...through the next decade.

It's fairly easy to build a team once you have a franchise QB in place. But, without that, you're nowhere. Ask any Buffalo Bills' fan.

In Response to Re: amazing mock draft : The Patriots selecting Maroney in Rd 1 has zero relevancy to Mark Ingram. With that logic, teams should avoid drafting a player at any position in which a first round pick (in that position) turned out to be a bust. Posted by mbeaulieu07

That's right. Teams should avoid using #1 picks on RBs. Look at some of the top RBs today, and how they were acquired:

1.) Arien Foster, Houston Texans - an undrafted free agent;

2.) Ahmad Bradshaw, NY Giants -7th round draft choice;

3.) BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Patriots - undrafted free agent;

4.) Daniel Grant, Green Bay Packers - undrafted free agent;

5.) Cedric Benson, Cincinnati Bengals - former top 5 pick was picked up by Bengals after being released by Bears;

6.) Michael Turner, Atlanta Falcons - a former 5th round draft pick by the San Diego Chargers, acquired by Atlanta through free agency;

7.) Fred Jackson, Buffalo Bills - undrafted free agent;

8.) Brandon Jacobs, NY Giants - 4th round draft choice;

9.) Marion Barber, Dallas Cowboys - 4th round draft choice;

10.) Thomas Jones, KC Chiefs - was originally a top 5 pick by the Arizona Cardinals. Was picked up off the scrap heap by the Chicago Bears, where he starred...and, eventually, was traded to the NY Jets...before joining KC as a free agent.

Get the point? Good RBs can be acquired in so many diffent ways, and with low draft choices. Why waste a #1 pick on one...especially on Ingram, who is damaged goods (knee surgery), when the Pats have so many needs on the defensive side of the ball?

Have the mock drafts EVER ACCURATELY predicted who the patriots would pick? They usually can't predict what the Pats will do an hour before their pick - never mind months out.Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost

Mock drafts are fun...because by doing one you can get an idea of who will be available for your team, when their turn to select comes.

There is NOT going to be any rookie wage scale in effect by next April, unless there is a dramatic turn of events. A lockout is far more likely. Any such scale would require a negotiated agreement. It's just not happening. Both sides are dug in, and there's nothing likely to move until much closer to the season, if at all in 2011.

Drafting a QB to "groom" when you just made your current QB the highest paid player in history would be management malpractice. There are far more acute needs on this team, and this is a contending team, not St. Louis.

ive only watched a couple ingram games but he didnt seem to me to have elite speed or to be very elusive. he just seemed real solid- what do you think is his greatest strength n Response to Re: amazing mock draft :Posted by sirpinochle

He's a little like Ray Rice to me, which is nice but not top 10 material. He'd be a nice get with pick #32 though.

Add to the fact that Mankins will most likely bring another pick and Tye Warren (and Bodden) will beback.Posted by BTownExpress

If Mankins reports after week 10 to earn his year of service (which is where the smart money is) he will be an unrestricted free agent for the 2011 season. We could perhaps franchise tag him which buys us a year and pay him the average of the top 5 OG. Most likely we won't want to do that to a very disgruntled employee. So, Mankins will walk and we will have to wait until the 2012 draft to get a comp pick for him. I think after week 10 is too late to make a trade and we can't trade him now unless he signs the tender. A new team won't take him unless they get a long term contract.

In Response to Re: amazing mock draft : Ayers would be good but I honestly think Jeremy Beal would fit better. He's a good to great college pass rusher with the ability to drop back and cover if need be. Ayers has trouble with blockers who can keep up with his speed and has trouble wrapping up tackles. Plus Beal should be around in late 1st early secondPosted by PatsEng

Last year was the year to draft DL and we waited until the 7th round. This is the year for CBs and OLBs. The draft is very deep at those positions. Ayers is just a junior. He will improve with pro coaching. I think Ayers is the better athlete. He's a little taller and faster than Beal. Beal is a DE so he'd be a conversion player where Ayers already plays the OLB position. I totally think Beal is suited to play 34 OLB as he stands up a little now and drops back on occassion. But if I had both players on the board at 22, I go with Ayers. I just think he has a higher ceiling.

I also like Mark Herzlich if the cancer is past him. Herzlich should be there with one of our 2nds. KJ Wright out of Miss State could be a choice in the 3rd. Here's a sleeper pick, assuming he declares; Audie Cole from NC State. He's 6-5, 240, 4.75. He could be a late 4th, early 5th until he blows up the Combine. This kid has Vrabel written all over him.

when you have a chance to draft a wideout like aj green who has the rare combination of size and speed its a no brainer. the pats have 8picks to work with use them to get who they think are the best players they need, maybe its a corner like peterson maybe its a de like robert quinn, maybe its a ol like anthony costanzo or a olb like bruce carter, whoever the players they are the pats have the ammo to trade into positions they need to get them. and that my friends is a very very good thing!!! go pats!!!

In Response to Re: amazing mock draft : That's right. Teams should avoid using #1 picks on RBs. Look at some of the top RBs today, and how they were acquired: 1.) Arien Foster, Houston Texans - an undrafted free agent; 2.) Ahmad Bradshaw, NY Giants -7th round draft choice; 3.) BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Patriots - undrafted free agent; 4.) Daniel Grant, Green Bay Packers - undrafted free agent; 5.) Cedric Benson, Cincinnati Bengals - former top 5 pick was picked up by Bengals after being released by Bears; 6.) Michael Turner, Atlanta Falcons - a former 5th round draft pick by the San Diego Chargers, acquired by Atlanta through free agency; 7.) Fred Jackson, Buffalo Bills - undrafted free agent; 8.) Brandon Jacobs, NY Giants - 4th round draft choice; 9.) Marion Barber, Dallas Cowboys - 4th round draft choice; 10.) Thomas Jones, KC Chiefs - was originally a top 5 pick by the Arizona Cardinals. Was picked up off the scrap heap by the Chicago Bears, where he starred...and, eventually, was traded to the NY Jets...before joining KC as a free agent. Get the point? Good RBs can be acquired in so many diffent ways, and with low draft choices. Why waste a #1 pick on one...especially on Ingram, who is damaged goods (knee surgery), when the Pats have so many needs on the defensive side of the ball? Posted by TexasPat3

Nice deflection, but your original point had nothing to do with getting value on RB's outside of Rd 1, which is both obvious and valid for all positions. What we've learned from taking Maroney in the 1st round is that his career to date hasn't warranted his draft position, that's it. That doesn't carry over to Ingram.

To your new point, please define the word "top running back", are you talking about legit top tier NFL caliber RB's or players who are starting for their teams right now? I read this somewhere else, might have been on this forum, but it certainly holds more water than your list of short time starters with a few higher tier backs mixed in (a couple of which were original taken in the top 10 as you pointed out), below is a list of the league rushing champions over the last decade, 80% of which were taken in round 1.

Personally I hope we get:1st rd :Patrick Peterson CB A Ayers OLBThe 2nd is more cloudy because there is a ton of guys that will last into the 2nd that are huge potential upgrades,2nd rd :Shane Vereen RB Stefan Wisniewski C/OG (assuming we get a 2nd for Mankins) Leonark Hankerson WR

ive only watched a couple ingram games but he didnt seem to me to have elite speed or to be very elusive. he just seemed real solid- what do you think is his greatest strength n Response to Re: amazing mock draft :Posted by sirpinochle

I guess it all depends on what type of running back you're looking for. Is he Chris Johnson in terms of explosiveness? No, but outside of Jamaal Charles, no one really possesses that kind of track star speed and explosion. Neither of which are the type of back that BB has historically preferred as his lead back.

IMO, his greatest strengths are his power, balance and toughness which allow him to consisently pick up YAC, pound the ball betwen the tackles and wear down defenses. I think this translates into him becoming an every down back as he can also catch the ball out of the backfield. With that being said, he's not exactly lacking in the speed department as he does have multiple 50+ YD carries/TD runs to his credit while playing in the SEC which is arguably the fastest conference in America.

Based on need and assumed available talent, this would be an excellent Rd 1 for NE. I love Dareus as a 5 tech prospect (big, stout at the POA, has pass rush ability) and Ayers looks to be a big, long, athletic, active and versatile player that BB can move around the field.

Patseng, I would be please with that draft too. I agree with Tex. Ingram is pretty thin in the treads, and I honestly think Richardson could be better. A WR or OLB would be better there. I would, however, never draft a #4 QB with Brady under contract. The salary structure in the NFL makes that simply crippling. Beyond that, NE needs to land a difference maker on the line. Plus from a several angles, Heyward is a very good fit ... character, size, experience, etcetera...Posted by zbellino

I too am high on Richardson (kid is just an absolute hammer with the ball in his hands) and think his development has allowed Alabama to cut down on Ingram's carries, keeping him fresher.

I'm not ready to say he's thin in the treads though, for comparisons sake, Adrian Peterson is one of, if not the hardest running backs in the NFL, he's just violent with the ball in his hands. He accumulated 747 carries in his Oklahoma career while Ingram sits at 570 and will likely be somewhere in the low to mid 600's assuming he stays healthy.

Does that mean Ingram will be able to hold up as well? No, but he should have less wear on his treads coming into the league and they do have comparable size (both listed around 215-217, Peterson is about 3 inches taller) and running styles.

In Response to Re: amazing mock draft : Last year was the year to draft DL and we waited until the 7th round. This is the year for CBs and OLBs. The draft is very deep at those positions. Ayers is just a junior. He will improve with pro coaching. I think Ayers is the better athlete. He's a little taller and faster than Beal. Beal is a DE so he'd be a conversion player where Ayers already plays the OLB position. I totally think Beal is suited to play 34 OLB as he stands up a little now and drops back on occassion. But if I had both players on the board at 22, I go with Ayers. I just think he has a higher ceiling. I also like Mark Herzlich if the cancer is past him. Herzlich should be there with one of our 2nds. KJ Wright out of Miss State could be a choice in the 3rd. Here's a sleeper pick, assuming he declares; Audie Cole from NC State. He's 6-5, 240, 4.75. He could be a late 4th, early 5th until he blows up the Combine. This kid has Vrabel written all over him. Posted by Faucetman

I'd argue that it can be rare that a pure OLB from college translated well to a 34 OLB in the Pro's. Most of the notable 34 OLB's in the Pro's started off as undersized DE's in college. Heck even the best OLB's in Pats history were DE's in college. The biggest issue I have with Ayers is his inability to get to a QB if he can't just run by the blocker. In the college levels his speed gives him a huge advantage which coaches allow him to over use but that 1 dimensional approach to rushing won't translate to a 34 rusher. Well that and his poor tackling technique. His tackling can be fixed though. That's one reason why I feel DE's translate better to 34 OLB then pure OLB's. They already have multiple moves to beat blockers so moving them to the outside gives them a slight advantage. That and Beal is a vey solid tackler. If they feel he's going to be around for the Car pick I'd rather have a combination of Pouncey (for when Koppen or Neal retires) and Beal then Ayers and any other combination.

As for Herzlich I would love to grab him but I have the feeling he's undersized for what BB wants. He's got the heart, desire, and drive I saw in Bruschi but it might all boil down to a size thing. BB tends to like OLB's who can put their hand down when needed and I don't think Herzlich has the frame to be able to do it. That being said if he's picked I'd be very happy.

I'll keep my ears open for the others haven't heard much about them. But this early in the college season the picture of who's who is still forming. One things for sure though. If there is a lockout expect to see only seniors to come out until they know what the status of the nfl is going to be

In Response to Re: amazing mock draft : I guess it all depends on what type of running back you're looking for. Is he Chris Johnson in terms of explosiveness? No, but outside of Jamaal Charles, no one really possesses that kind of track star speed and explosion. Neither of which are the type of back that BB has historically preferred as his lead back. IMO, his greatest strengths are his power, balance and toughness which allow him to consisently pick up YAC, pound the ball betwen the tackles and wear down defenses. I think this translates into him becoming an every down back as he can also catch the ball out of the backfield. With that being said, he's not exactly lacking in the speed department as he does have multiple 50+ YD carries/TD runs to his credit while playing in the SEC which is arguably the fastest conference in America.Posted by mbeaulieu07

Hey MB they don't need to draft a RB with track star speed they have one: David Woodhead Timed at 4.33-4.38 in the 40.There aren't many RB's in the NFL or college that fast.