Google now censors this blog in violation of the first amendment. Google should be tried for crimes against the Constitution.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Copyright 2006 John Best

Tuesday, September 12, 2006

The Neurodiversity Cult, Autistic Abuse

Unlike most cults, there are no religious overtones or charismatic leaders to snooker the innocent lambs. The victims of Neurodiversity are not asked to give up their belongings and they aren't living in any group compounds. These victims have sacrificed something much more valuable; they have donated their minds for the purpose of serving this master with propaganda.No sane person thinks it is a good idea to abandon children who are severely incapacitated by refusing to give them medical treatment when they are poisoned. When a parent learns that their child has been poisoned, the proper response is to contact a doctor and remove said poison. I never dreamed that I would have to make that statement. I must have been somewhat naive to believe that every parent would have at least that much intelligence. I guess I was giving some of my fellow parents too much credit.The leaders of Neurodiversity have targeted the feeble-minded. What they have done is truly criminal. They have convinced people who have had their brains damaged by mercury that they should band together as a group of disabled citizens to tell the world through their blogs that they do not want their brain damage repaired. They have also taken this a step further to try to con society into believing that it is wrong to cure any person whose brain has been poisoned into autism. The leaders have said that curing autism is akin to killing the autistic person. Some autistic people who have the ability to type have fallen for this absurd notion and now have been brainwashed into believing it themselves.Autistics became brain damaged due mostly to mercury in vaccines. The cult followers claim they can think for themselves. Some of them can't talk, aren't fully toilet trained and are unemployable. They have never experienced what normalcy is yet they proclaim they do not want to be cured. Their mental capacity is so limited that they can't understand the fallacy in their thinking yet, there they are blogging away to spread the deranged message of Neurodiversity. Our government needs to step in and put a stop to this abuse of disabled people. One must ask who could possibly gain something by this abuse. These people have no assets to steal. It certainly doesn't appear that anyone could get rich by brainwashing autistics into telling the world that they want to remain brain damaged.There are several possible beneficiaries to this lunacy. Our government, who should be protecting these disabled people could benefit if these victims could convince sane parents not to cure their autistic children. If nobody wanted to cure autism, the CDC could continue to poison babies all over the world with thimerosal and protect the integrity of the vaccine program. Then they wouldn't look like a bunch of negligent simpletons for causing the autism epidemic by never testing thimerosal for safety. The drug industry would be the most obvious beneficiary of this lunacy since, if everyone thought autism was genetic and the Neurodiversity Cult convinced the world to celebrate having autism, nobody would want to sue them for trillions of dollars for putting poison into babies and causing autism. Pediatricians, who injected the vaccines and now routinely lie to parents by telling them that mercury does not cause autism would be off the hook for their blunder.Unfortunately for all of the above, the majority of parents on this earth have not lost their marbles and joined this ridiculous cult. Any parents reading this whose kids have signed on with Neurodiversity should seriously consider hiring deprogrammers to rescue the children. Autism is a nightmare and no person should go through life with it when cures are available.

205 comments:

I believe that adult autistics have a right to, and should be accepted as valuable members of society. I also understand, why they can perceive, anyone whishing to 'cure' help or change their autistic child, as undermining those adults with autism who have the cognitive awareness and capabilities that so many others do not.

Unfortunately there are many thousands of autistic children and adults, who are so "severely incapacitated", they are 'prisoners' of autism and are in dire need of help, protection, and ultimately, a cure.

Anyone denying this devastating and debilitating disability, if they have had any experience of these children, as they say they have, must be hard-hearted, unemotional and inhumane individuals.

Anyone and everyone who is propagating the lie, that curing autism is tantamount to 'killing' the autistic child, or wishing them dead, particularly those who are not autistic themselves, are damaging the public perception of autism.

Parents of autistic children themselves, are condescending to, and insulting vulnerable parents of profoundly autistic children, by insisting they know better than them. Force-feeding their view that autism is something to be celebrated.Proclaiming, "We don’t need no stinkin cure".They are a danger to autistic children and their families, who are already overwrought, depressed and deeply distressed at their child’s condition. Families are being ‘kicked while they are down’ by the ‘neurodiverse cult’ and their supporters, and there is absolutely no excuse for this abuse.If I had £1 for every time I read the phrase “pity-party”, as a retort to any attempt at a civil and reasonable debate, I would be a very rich woman.

The ‘neurodiverse’, whether they are high functioning autistic adults, odd/eccentric characters, adults with mental health problems or adults of autistic children, are indoctrinating autistics, susceptible to the suggestion that anyone sympathetic or compassionate in their view towards autism, are therefore undermining their intelligence and existence as autistics.

These people, hosting web sites and blogs on the subject of autism, who appear extremely articulate, well educated and skilled at arguing, would be lost without the use of sarcasm, condescension, "editing for relevancy", or simply omitting valid comments in arguing against them. They are presenting a totally false picture, far removed from any reality or truth.

The devious and underhand length’s, to which they will stoop to, in presenting their arguments as the absolute truth, is quite disturbing, and their motives in this must be questioned.

While they may not yet, represent a ‘cult’ in the conventional sense of the word, they are certainly cultivating a particular kind of hatred of anyone who does not conform to their beliefs.

I believe my son’s autism was caused by mercury poisoning, via thimerosal in vaccines, and I believe in biomedical intervention.No amount of propaganda to the contrary will ever convince me otherwise.

Many people write the neurodiverse off as a bunch of nuts and try to pay no attention to them. Do some searches for "autism" or "curing autism" and see what pops up. These people are getting their message out. The activist parents who would love to publicize the mercury hypotheses and let others know about cures have their message hidden on group lists that the general public never sees. Blogs are a better way to help spread that message and the neurodiverse, with their professional propaganda experts, are winning that battle. More sane people need to step up and slap the neurodiverse around. If you search for autism blogs, the first thing that comes up is the Autism Hub. It's pathetic that the thousands of parents who know all of these blogs to be nonsense won't get together and knock them way down the list. I shudder to think of parents new to autism finding Autism Hub and becoming sucked into this crap.

Best, I was surprised you were bright enough to get my sarchasm, but what is the point of deleting my posts and THEN saying they are off topic? Thats just ridiculous to comment on something you have just removed. Your idiocy is the topic. It always has been. And also why bother naking a public blog when only you and your various incarnations are allowed to post? If you delete the posts which abuse you then you are removing the only socially beneficial aspect of the blog.

"Erik (what's with the 'Mr Leitch' by the way?) - The following people are not allowed to post on my blog.

Sue, KC, Susan Lord aka jonsmum aka kevin_1000, a guy called doug fahey and John Best Jr. Thats it. Why? Because these people can't keep a civil tongue in their heads or have a massively inflated sense of their own importance (or in JB Jr's case are just psychos)"

I'll bet Kev was one of those kids who would take his soccer ball and run home crying after the other kids beat his ass. This is a poor excuse from a simpleton who can't stand up for himself like a man. What kind of sissy backs down from a war of words from the other side of an ocean?

"Mouse;If you enjoy the 'social benefits' of abusing people, then bugger off back to Leech's site where you belong."

You have some room to talk, really... one day you kid will kick shit out of you for being too stupid to realise he's not a worthless being!

I would love to video that day!

"I believe my son’s autism was caused by mercury poisoning, via thimerosal in vaccines, and I believe in biomedical intervention.No amount of propaganda to the contrary will ever convince me otherwise."

John;I don't know if you've already seen this site, and I haven't learned how to 'provide links' yet, but if you go to;www.tuberose.com/Vaccinations.html there is an excellent 'piece' on vaccinations.Everyone needs to read this.

Mouse, you haven't been paying attention. The mercury in the vaccines caused the autism. My son is recovering because I'm removing the mercury. That proves that mercury caused the autism. It it wasn't the mercury, he wouldn't be improving.

John, I believe your son will survive the autism, mercury or not. Your reasons for his "recovery" are really mistaken. People go through major changes in their teen years. To place mercury detoxification (before even having proven that your son has mercury poisoning) is ridiculous. Also, you still have to prove that mercury poisoning causes autism, which is beyond you (or the Griers). In fact your whole theory was rejected by the scientific community as quackery and Grier was thorouly discredited.

I think your child has a good chance of surviving autism without your intervention. I, however, doubt your child will survive YOU. And that is sad.

As I said in my first post which you deleted, John:

You are a blessing, John, because I know no matter how horrible I am at least I cannot be as stupid or deluded or evil as you. You exist so the rest of the world can feel good about themselves.

Any Mouse (not to be confused with other anonymous posters as John so frequently does in his idiocy)

"In fact your whole theory was rejected by the scientific community as quackery and Grier was thorouly discredited. "-

That a fucking degenerated gipsyslut like you even have the nerve to enter this debate is a fucking scandale it self. Your ignorance, your absence of academic debth and your debunking of scientists who have more IQ in their urine then you have between your ears make your participation in this war nothing more then a waste of time beeing used to scroll over your puke of chimp seemen. That you're not even in a possesion of an autistic kid but dare to aggressively lecture other how to raise and make fatal choices for their precious disabled child/ren is just another indicator for what a demented crackhead of an asylum candidate you are.

Anymouse; Normal people go through changes as teens. Severely autistic kids remain like two year olds. Look around you, adults who aren't fully toilet trained need help. Neurodiversity discourages them from getting that help. You are associated with some very evil people who have made victims out of autistic people. That's why most of them hide behind pseudonyms.

You're a complete half-wit. You're a disgrace to the severely autistic. Autism still has a lot of questions unanswered. You can't critize parents for trying to help their disabled children by the methods they see fit. It's like saying to a parent with a partially deaf child: "just accept the deafness, what's wrong with you, do you despise your child?"

ASDs are the "fallout" statistic of so called safety studies on thimerosal. How safe this was proven to be will depend on the population size and statistic used. I would put money on the fact that the whole study was pitted with poor statistical analysis. In any event, statistical analysis is never 100% certain. That is why it's called a hypothesis. The reality comes when you put it into practice. There should have been in depth followup studies due to the nature of thimerosal, but there wasn't.

Why don't you make yourself useful and look into the study that proved thimerosal safe before ranting on at people who say it is'nt?

It seems like the neurodiverse are sucking up everything the government touts as gospel. Wake up. Think for yourself and make an informed decision: this goes for everything.

Take a look at aspartame for instance. Started out as an aid to help overweight. Then, hmm...this is cheaper than sugarcane, let's push it as healthier food. This is another instance of money before health.

The government is terrified that people will lose faith in their vaccination program (we already have adverts in the UK trying to restore public confidence..LOL: another brainwashing tool)

The vaccination program won't recover from this especially with reports from doctors like this:

Do you consider Alzheimer's as neurodiversity? Is epilepsy a neurostate that makes your world shine? And what about schizoprenia?

The only one here who poses a risk for his/hers enviroment is you anny. By the way, do you need financial support for that length of rope it will take to hang a corrupt quack like you? I'll be more then glad to contribute to such a grand event. And I can of course throw some extra $$$'s to a solid videocamera so we can make it forever trough YouTube.

ann e cunt .md .ph.d;Thanks for the link.How governments are getting away with this denial/cover up is criminal. Maybe if we had a prime minister or president with an autistic child, the truth about mercury/autism might just be admitted.Or would it? After all, Tony Blair insists information about his sons vaccinations are a private matter.He probably made sure his son didn't get any jabs with thimerosal in.Bush and Blair both deserve to be locked up for the rest of their lives, for crimes against humanity.

Waiting for the autism vaccine, Nice link from 3 years ago. You'd think neurodiverse nitwits would have learned these things since then. When the cult leaders deny this information, the lambs are more easily led to slaughter. I wonder if the pending psychologist will ever figure this out.

Of course it's obvous from his silence, that his son had them separately, while he preached to rest of the nation on the dangers of not having the mmr, the hypocrite

If it's true that he either didn't get the mmr or got the components separately... that is really pathetic. Sick state of affairs. It's almost as pathetic as having a pediatrician tell you how important vaccines are and then not get them for their own kids (or make sure they are/were thimerosal free or whatever). I hear it happens quite a bit (anectdotally of course).

Oh, John, you have created yhis site of perpetual agreement for your stupid ideas. I can't keep up with all your characters but they are all saying the same thing. And, yes,they are all made up and anonymouse, too. This site is a masturbation fest for you.

I just had to correct the spelling errors in the comment by "Ann E Cunt, MD, PhD". It was appalling.

Perhaps Ann should learn to spell - or at least proofread - prior to her next post?

That a fucking degenerated gipsyslut like you even have the nerve to enter this debate is a fucking scandale it self(1). Your ignorance, your absence of academic debth(2) and your debunking of scientists who have more IQ in their urine then(3 a) you have between your ears make your participation in this war nothing more then(3 b) a waste of time beeing(4) used to scroll over your puke of chimp seemen(5). That you're not even in a possesion of an autistic kid but dare to aggressively lecture other(6) how to raise and make fatal choices for their precious disabled child/ren is just another indicator for what a demented crackhead of an asylum candidate you are.

(1) scandal itself [there is no 'e' on the end of 'scandal', and 'itself' is one word, not two](2) depth [there is no such word as 'debth' that I know of, but 'depth' is a variant of 'deep', which I believe is what you mean](3 a,b) than ['then' has to do with when something happens; 'than' is a comparison word.(4) being [only one 'e'](5) semen [only one 'e'; I actually noted the full phrase, 'puke of chimp semen', because it doesn't make any sense](6) others [you need the plural here]

An entirely hopeless being said: "I wonder if the pending psychologist will ever figure this out."

I'm intrigued here. What is a pending psychologist?

Another strangely hopeless being said: "Do you even understand the meaning of the word "logic"?"

I don't know who that was directed at, but - sure - I understand well the meaning of the word 'logic'.

Same strangely hopeless being said: "It sounds like you have a fair idea of who 'any mouse' is."

I don't think that the first hopeless being mentioned above has a clue who 'any mouse' is.

Any Mouse said: "This site is a masturbation fest for you."

Mouse... you calling John Best Jr a wanker?

You could be right!

The first hopeless being above said: "Members of cults always abuse those who point out the truth of their delusional existence."

Is that why you set up your blog? To abuse those who point out the nature of the cult you've sold (if not your soul) your kid to? You in particular, John, make the Mercury-Autism lot look more like the Waco lot than the Waco lot did! Not that I'd say that they were in any way rational, either.

The second strangely hopeless being above said: "If you really want to be ditinguished from all other anonymous comments, why dont't you just comment under your real name."

"ditinguished"? "dont't"??

Why "dont't" you learn to spell the simple words before trying out the big ones?! Since you seem to like being confrontational and hateful.

The first - maybe uniquely hopeless - being above said: "Severely autistic kids remain like two year olds."

Wrong.

Same UHB said:

"Mouse, you haven't been paying attention."

More likely you haven't.

UBH: "The mercury in the vaccines caused the autism."

You have shown no proof of this whatsoever.

UHB: "My son is recovering because I'm removing the mercury."

No, you cannot say that without proof. And you have none.

UHB: "That proves that mercury caused the autism."

No, it doesn't.... not by a long way. That was a circularity there...

UHB: "It it wasn't the mercury, he wouldn't be improving."

I'll assume that you meant "IF it wasn't.... ".

Even so, he could be improving in his state for reasons other than him being mercury poisoned... children develop.

You see, second strangely hopeless being mentioned above.... I know how to use logic. Because I understand not only the word, but also... well, logic.

Now that I have pointed out the UHB's irrational claims and shown how cultist his thinking is, I can look forward to a lot of abuse from him. Right?

I love to see idiots getting angry... they stand up and they take off their hats, and they throw them to the ground and stamp on them, as if it's the hat that's pissed them off. Purely metaphorically, that is. This is because they are too stupid to think of anything else.

I pity the two beings I mentioned above, for their infantile belief patterns and their irrational behaviours.

Any Mouse (from what I see here) looks to be quite an intelligent person, if a little dyslexic maybe (Any Mouse... you'd probably be the one with the answer to that one). I think that AM's input here shows something up in the mentality of the whole army of sockpuppets created by JBJr to agree with him(self).

Well, an interesting day I had looking at this. I may come back again!

anonimous coward:I just had to correct the spelling errors in the comment by "Ann E Cunt, MD, PhD". It was appalling.

You didn't even do that right, you moron. Who the hell do you think you are? Since you didn't correct 'gipsyslut' that would suggest you have an affinity with this type of person i.e. you are one.

In any case you're criticism of this person's spelling is a direct atttack on the neurodiverse. Don't you see how that's a little hypercritical. Oh I see, only support the neurodiverse with the same opinion as you.

This actually shows that you're not interested in the real issues here AND you're blatant disregard for autistics. Hang you're head in shame gipsyslut abuser. No wonder you remain anonimouse with comments like that one.

Anonymous simpletons question my son's recovery from mercury poisoning because that knowledge is damaging to the cult of defending drug companies. Assholes like this don't care how many autistic people are damaged further by their lies. Their object is not to help autistics celebrate their neurodiversity. Their object is to have naive autistics write idiocy that harms themselves and helps make the drug companies look innocent. Who the hell do you think you're talking to here, simpleton? I'm not some naive moron who buys your ridiculous claims that I have to show you proof that chelation is helping my son. Any sane parent would pay attention to the success many of us have had with chelation to help their own kids. Nobody who truly wants to help any autistics would try to claim that a treatment that helps kids does not work. You're a lying scumbag who is abusing autistic people and harming children of uneducated parents who might listen to your nonsense. And, as usual, you don't have the courage to back up what you say. You're just another good argument that neurodiversity is pure bullshit. Thanks for helping me out.

anonimous(1) coward:I just had to correct the spelling errors in the comment by "Ann E Cunt, MD, PhD". It was appalling.

You didn't even do that right, you moron. Who the hell do you think you are? Since you didn't correct 'gipsyslut' that would suggest you have an affinity with this type of person i.e. you are one.(2)

In any case you're(3a) criticism of this person's spelling is a direct atttack on the neurodiverse. Don't you see how that's a little hypercritical.(4) Oh I see, only support the neurodiverse with the same opinion as you.

This actually shows that you're not interested in the real issues here AND you're blatant disregard for autistics. Hang you're(3b) head in shame gipsyslut abuser. No wonder you remain anonimouse(5) with comments like that one.

This word sums you nicely:Narcissist(6)

(1) anonymous [sad that you couldn't spell the word correctly when there are numerous examples on the comments page](2) [I did, in fact, miss 'gipsyslut' - it should be 'gypsyslut'; I apologize for my error](3 a,b) your ['you're' means 'you are'; 'your' is the possessive, which is what you meant - homonyms can definitely be tricky](4) ? [as a general rule, I won't tackle punctuation... but that was too much to ignore - questions should end with a question mark](5) anonymous [again... numerous examples of the word spelled correctly](6) [if I were a narcissist, I would probably use my actual name... but thanks for playing]

Maybe my spelling mistakes indicate I'm dislexic, neurodiverse or just tired. You see, when the time shows 3pm on this blog, it's about 11pm in England.Nobody gives a toss about spelling mistakes.Only a person like you, desperate for any opportunity to put other people down to make yourself feel superior.Do you realise what a fool you make of yourself with your list of spelling mistakes and your rambling's about "strangely hopeless being" and "uniquely hopless being".

"Is that why you set up your blog? To abuse those who point out the nature of the cult you've sold"

The only abuse has came from the anonymous cowards posting here.

"You have some room to talk, really... one day you kid will kick shit out of you for being too stupid to realise he's not a worthless being!

I would love to video that day!"

Does this not constitute abuse, never mind complete disrespect for an autistic child?

"Since you seem to like being confrontational and hateful"

Are you talking about youself, here?

If you don't have the courage or strenght to wrench yourself away from the cult of neurodiversity, (C O N), then at least have the backbone to comment under your blog/real name.And while we're on the subject. I'm not a "sock puppet", or an "incarnation".Type; Susan Lord Letter from sickened mother, in a google search, and see what comes up.You would be surprised at the personal e-mails I received from members of the Autism Assembly, about that letter. You may have even been one of them. I'm glad you had an interesting day, reading this thread. Come back soon and feel free to comment, so we can all have another good laugh.

Jonsmum (who is, by calling herself that, remaining anonymous, whilst trying to have a go at me for not using my name... talk about HYPOCRISY!)...

"You would be surprised at the personal e-mails I received from members of the Autism Assembly, about that letter.You may have even been one of them."

How could I? I don't know your e-mail address. Given how you conduct yourself here, though, I'm not surprised you get them (do not, however, infer that I would condone them: I have been one of many who have suffered such from JBJr himself... regardless of whoever does that, it's a shitty thing to do!).

Jonsmum: "The only abuse has came from the anonymous cowards posting here."

Hmmm... pot calls kettle... what, exactly?

Jonsmum: "Are you talking about youself, here?"

No. I'm talking about you. Pity your intellectual skills fail you on the most important aspects of life, isn't it?

Jonsmum: "If you don't have the courage or strenght to wrench yourself away from the cult of neurodiversity, (C O N), then at least have the backbone to comment under your blog/real name."

I'm thoroughly amused by how hypocritical you can be without having even noticed it. Stupid sod! LoL

And Strength is spelt STRENGTH.

Jonsmum: "Maybe my spelling mistakes indicate I'm dislexic, neurodiverse or just tired. You see, when the time shows 3pm on this blog, it's about 11pm in England."

Not all spelling mistakes indicate DYSLEXIA! And even if you are tired, it usually pays to check you post before you click the 'post comment' button. You're probably not neurodivergent, if you insist (without proof, as you do) that your son's autism was definitely and unquestionably cause by mercury poisoning (which is in fact totally different from autism: check the diagnostic criteria!).

Jonsmum: "Does this not constitute abuse, never mind complete disrespect for an autistic child?"

Tell me how that statement could possibly be conceived of as such! Not one of you autism=mercury-poisoning lot has eveer come up with reliable evidence of anything yet! Not very clever, really...

Jonsmum: "Nobody gives a toss about spelling mistakes."

Oh really? Maybe you should tell your mercury-mum comrade SueM that... it was her obsession for a hell of a long time! The only input she ever made in many cases... which showed that she'd little if any factual input to give anywhere.

Jonsmum: "Only a person like you, desperate for any opportunity to put other people down to make yourself feel superior."

Nah. I don't need to do that. I AM superior to you! You, on the other hand, will put down anyone you disagree with for that very reason. Again, you're a hypocrite, aren't you? Poor Jon.

Kevin_1000: "This actually shows that you're not interested in the real issues here AND you're blatant disregard for autistics."

Heh. Another pot-calls-kettle... Assuming you have only the regulation one head, how come you manage to be so stupid with just the one? The poster to whom you replied has far more respect for autistics in his/her earlobe than you have in your entire body. Is that why you feel bound to ad-hom him/her? Personal inadequacy? How sad.

Jonsmum: "Do you realise what a fool you make of yourself with your list of spelling mistakes and your rambling's about 'strangely hopeless being' and 'uniquely hopeless being'."

I only do what I see most of the mercury-parents doing... taking the piss out of people on irrelevant issues and ignoring the main one. If it makes me look foolish, what does it make you look? I copy you, you say I look foolish... if you can't work that one out, you need serious help! LoL

Kevin_1000: "anoniyimous.. oops terribly sorry!"

LEARN TO FUCKING SPELL!!!!

Heh.

Mercury poisoning, my arse.... time to grow up and admit that mercury poisoning and autism are two different things.

This anonymous simpleton sounds like a pending psychologist who earned his BA (Basketweaving Architecture) in the special ed. program.Autism didn't exist until Eli Lilly started poisoning babies in 1931 and this moron thinks autism does not equal mercury poisoning. This guy's too stupid to cure himself so he follows the guidelines of neurodiversity and claims that he's celebrating having brain damage. This lets him fit in with the other brain damaged morons and, for the first time in his life, he feels like he's part of the group instead of an outcast. That's how cults work, dumb fuck. Get some help!

Show me one study, with all the raw data, that proves thimerosal is safe, nevermind that it isn't linked to autism.

Unless you're privy to all the data, the study is merely propaganda/hearsay. I think we've seen plenty of that.

Just take the facts:

Thimerosal is a neurotoxin (toxic dose depends on host weight, host immune system). Hosts immune system is not taken into account/tested before injection.

The metabolisation of Thimerosal is'nt fully understood.

Inorganic mercury poison traits are similar to autistic traits.

A percentage of the population injected with vaccines suffer adverse reactions or die.

There's no hidden raw data there. Make an informed decision.

There is something not quite right when the government claims they don't know the cause of autism when it is so prevalent. Have a think about that while your proofreading this and thinking of your next bird-brained post.

"Jonsmum (who is, by calling herself that, remaining anonymous, whilst trying to have a go at me for not using my name... talk about HYPOCRISY!)..."

Let me explain to you, the obviousthat you are too dense to understand.

I post here and on other sites and blogs as 'jonsmum'.I have an identity and opinions as 'jonsmum', that people can agree or disaree with, or criticize and compare.On the other hand, you post as anonymous, saying whatever offensive or insulting comments that come into your thick skull, while you hide behind your anonymous title.

There is a big diference between me and you. Coward.I have even given you my real name.How can you possibly construe this as hypocritical!

"I don't know your e-mail address. Given how you conduct yourself here, though, I'm not surprised you get them"

If you had bothered to do a search, you would have seen my email address at the bottom of the letter.And BTW, the emails i've recieved, have all been thankful and complimentary.

"Pity your intellectual skills fail you on the most important aspects of life, isn't it?"

"if you insist (without proof, as you do) that your son's autism was definitely and unquestionably cause by mercury poisoning (which is in fact totally different from autism: check the diagnostic criteria!)"

Don't you mean CAUSED by mercury poisoning?I am well aware of the diagnostic criteria, thankyou.The triad of impairments are all symptoms of mercury poisoning.

"I AM superior to you! You, on the other hand, will put down anyone you disagree with for that very reason".

I was brought up to believe that nobody is "superior" to anyone else, but it doesn't, and will never stop me from arguing a point of view, I disagree with. Especially with anyone who claims to be superior to me.

"one day you kid will kick shit out of you for being too stupid to realise he's not a worthless being!I would love to video that day!"

"Tell me how that statement could possibly be conceived of as such!" (abusive and disrespectful)

No, you tell me how that statement could not be concieved as anything but offensive, and vicious.

You are a million miles from superior, you are the lowest of the low, to defend a statement that uses an autistic child in this way.I would never ever do this.How "superior" do you think this makes you look?

"I only do what I see most of the mercury-parents doing..."

BULLSHIT.

"Not one of you autism=mercury-poisoning lot has eveer come up with reliable evidence of anything yet! Not very clever, really..."

Just because you've a degree doesn't make you any better than anyone else (you'd tell me different, I suspect). All it means is that you've studied a particular subject to a certain level. Your IQ hasn't went up any, but I fear your ego may have left the planet!!

I wouldn't trust you with the charge of a pair of slippers nevermind a child. You bonehead. You are a waste of a good pair of shoes.

Andrews, why would I revise my opinion of you? Whether you complete your degree or not doesn't matter. You'll always be a simpleton until you do something about your brain damage caused by mercury. You're the only idiot I ever came in contact with who advertises his pending degree as part of his signature. In fact, I never met anyone who advertised any degree besides a doctorate. Do you do that to convince yourself you're not a moron?

I believe Mr. Andrews puts his degree out there as evidence to people who may be misled by your lies that autism=byain damage that it does not.

Allow me to rephrase for you, Best. Mr. Andrews has a university degree. Mr. Andrews is autistic. Therefore autism does not equal brain damage.

Also, considering the nature of his degree, Best, he is an expert in the field of autism. YOU are not. You are - at your very best, Best - annoying and impotent (influencially impotent, I know nothing of your sex life - if you have one).

Best said: "...In fact, I never met anyone who advertised any degree besides a doctorate..."

And this Best is only evidence that you know very few educated people. I honestly don't know why we bother to talk to you. Your oppinions are trash and your blog is designed - here I give you some credit which I shouldn't - for idiots. The credit I give you is that you consciously designed it to appeal to idiots. The truth probably is that since you are an idiot yourself there was no conscious design involved in this site.

"Andrews, why would I revise my opinion of you? Whether you complete your degree or not doesn't matter. You'll always be a simpleton until you do something about your brain damage caused by mercury."

You have more faith in chelation that you do in you god. You are a very desperate and sad man, Best, you really are.

JBJr: "You're the only idiot I ever came in contact with who advertises his pending degree as part of his signature."

I've seen many others do it. Quite legitimate, really. You, on the other hand, claim to have degrees with certainly little or no evidence of the ability to get *into* university, let alone get through it!

JBJr: "In fact, I never met anyone who advertised any degree besides a doctorate."

You don't know many people, then. Plenty of people here do it from the first university or polytechnic degree they get. Americans might be pitifully embarrassed about putting their BAs up by their names, because they're pretty poor, really; but I hear that the PhD in America is harder to get (sort of making up for the easiness of the BA; at least, my archaeology tutor was of this opinion... he was a Cambridge MA who went to U-Penn for his doctorate).

JBJr: "Do you do that to convince yourself you're not a moron?"

What? I already know I'm not. You might well be, but that's for you to worry about, John.

Any Mouse: "And this Best is only evidence that you know very few educated people."

I kinda agree here, Mouse... I've never known of anyone actually disown his education like Best does... in his effort to convince himself that he's not wasting money chelating the lad, he's actually convinced himself that his education was a waste of his money (if he really does have one... there's some people don't believe that he really exists... I'm working on the assumption that he does... for now). If he was like this at university, I'm surprised that he would have been able to keep his place on any course. Complete refusal to learn, basically. I'm glad he was never in any class of mine... the Disciplinary Committee would be dealing with him pretty quick into the course. Not many university-level teachers and lecturers would want to bother with him, I can bet. I'd refuse to teach him.

Mouse; There are lots of scumbags with high degrees who still try to maintain the obsolete notion that autism is not caused by mercury. The fact that Andrews says the same thing just shows what a shoddy education he got. If it's not in a textbook, dumb bastards like Andrews will never learn it. Some young people think they learn something useful in college. If you're lucky, college will teach you how to think so you can apply the rudimentary knowledge you gain to real life. Thirty years from now, Andrews might learn this through experience, if he detoxifies his brain so it works right.

Andrews; God doesn't fly down to Earth to solve every little problem. He gave us smart and decent people like Andy Cutler to take care of that for Him. Why don't you call your mother and see if she'll rescue you from this cult? Maybe you can start hanging around with some normal people so you can appreciate what a horse's ass you are.

It's nothing more amusing when the boarderlined retarded gorillas from the intellectual slum over at the neurodiversity island shot their weak diseased views at the sane and productive parents who just simply desire a decent life for their vaccine-injured children. It is certainly a characteristic among the neurodiversity shags that analyctic and intelligent thinking together with humanity and solidarity are qualites which are either not appreciated or simply never have or will be an offical policy because it comes in conflict with the whole idea of neurodiversity. The vision to the neurodiversity community appears to be a drugdependent population of mentally amputed lapdogs (or a celebration of neurodiversity as you wicked queers calls it), a state a high number of the neuroadministrators themself live in. The neurodiversity pharmacoperation is indeed a cult being lead by evil corrupt propagandapinheads, preferably the Seidels. You're doing much of the same of what the CDC does without claiming taxmoney for it.

I do not how many cocks you had to suck for your B.A degree, but I'm positive the number of them is superior to the number which indicates your IQ.

If you want to discuss the only interesting aspect of this case, the science, so come back when you're capable of independent, analyctical thinking. You're nothing more then a immature copycat who will never be more waluable than the weight of your wallet. You can only hope you'll outgrow your hopeless current state, if not, I'm sure the author of this blog can mail you a barrel of chelation products suffient enough to make you grasp that it will be best if your keep your mouth shut. Permanent.

Here's the really interesting thing about educational degrees. Because you happen to have a "degree" of any sort does not mean that you have any "common sense". Time and time again, I see doctors and pending BA's who just don't understand that injecting babies with a neurotoxin over and over again is just really stupid and very dangerous. If I were to walk up to a bum on the street or Jessica Simpson or your average NT first grader and asked him/her a simple question such as: Is it a good idea to inject a neurotoxin into a pregnant woman or infant? I imagine that the answer would be shock and an instant NO, NEVER! Truth be told to some of these people I may have to explain the term "neurotoxin" but once we cleared that up, they would get it. Instead, here we have people with "degrees" or "pending" diplomas and we get answers such as: Prove it is dangerous. Or, the dose makes the poison. Or, my personal favorite, water can be a neurotoxin, too.

I suppose that it may come a time when our entire educational system should be changed. Perhaps we could have a bunch of people who are studying for their "degrees" (at any level) who will be paired up with someone who has been proven to have "common sense". These two will be paired up and will need to agree when it comes to making any important decisions involving the health of babies.

I don't think MS Diva would make those comments outside of neuroinsanityland. I wish some people with older cured kids would send them to Kev's blog to let those lunatics know that none of them are asking to have the mercury put back in them. The non-autistic leaders of this cult should really be locked up. Delusional followers like Diva should be deprogrammed and cured.

Mouse; Psychotics convince people who have brain damage from mercury that it is something to celebrate. Those of us with our heads screwed on right know that that is insane. I keep offering to help Andrews cure himself so he won't be such a nitwit but, so far, he can't see the truth through the fog in his head.

any mouse;I'm sure, as psychologist, David Andrews can think for himself, without being told what to do by you.

I would have thought that after using all of those letters after his name for so long, and then displaying his 'pick and mix' recipe of credentials with pride, he wouldn't mind the opportunity of answering a few questions about his proud title of "Psychologist".He would'nt be disclosing anymore "personal" information than he already has.

"David N Andrews; What ligitimate university did you obtain your MEd from? Are you a registered psychologist and if so, who are you registered with? What country do you intend to practice in?"

Hmm... okay. What is your full name and address? What do you do for a living? You prepared to answer those questions? If not, you can whistle for answers to yours. Now, personally, I do not wish to know ANY of those details about you; I merely make the point that you are asking for personal information without being prepared to give any collateral to me. That's not a particularly equitable status to try to put me in.

What I can tell you is this:

I studied under the UK's foremost practitioners and researchers, and I have successfully completed the MEd course, and I may (on the strength of my work standards so far) graduate with Distinctions attached; My supervisor (who has a book out on educational interventions) is pelased with my work. In the UK (where I trained), one does not need (at this point) to be 'registered' with the BPS, although - if one wishes to become a Chartered Psychologist - it is best to do so. Where I live and work, however, the BPS has no jurisdiction: hence, Chartered status is neither here nor there. However, I shall probably make an application to the BPS to check my studies against the requirements for Graduate Basis for Registration, since that is a more stringent criterion for membership than that which I am currently eligible for: Graduate Membership (and it is this status that I am, under the points aggregation scheme, eligible for). Eligibility for Graduate Membership (even without actually joining the society) is sufficient (according to one BPS document I have) for me to use the title 'psychologist'.

That should suffice for you, in the total absence of personal information about you.

As I say, I could not care less about what you do, or where you live. That is your business, and mine is mine.

Any Mouse:

"David,

Do not answer any of John bests questions. It is never a good idea to give psychotics personal info about yourself."

I think you're right, Mouse.

I don't think I have any legal duty to answer any questions from those people: I have tried to answer their questions (sometimes I have been angered by them, sure), and I have tried fairly to answer them, but they have continued to be abusive (although it's clear that - when someone they so cruelly abuse gets back at them - they can't handle it and cry foul). The people who need to know my qualifications know them, and where I got them from. The university is in the UK; and is a legitimate one, and that SHOULD satisfy jonsmum. If it doesn't then that is HER tough titty. My MEd course followed closely the BPS syllabus for training in the job that I do, and that will also be presented in evidence to the BPS when I ask about GBR. But quite frankly, it is no business of jonsmum's where I went. Unless she tells me where she went to college. Doubt she'll do that.

"any mouse;I'm sure, as psychologist, David Andrews can think for himself, without being told what to do by you."

I can, and do. And he doesn't tell me what to do or not, although he actually does 'give a shit' about how you and your lot treat people who don't agree with you.

My statement previously posted still stands. I can say that I have studied in only real universities (Open, Oulu, Jyväskylä, Leeds, Sheffield, Sheffield Hallam and some others) doing things via the Credit Accumulation and Transfer Scheme, and then - when I moved to Finland, getting into universities here. In the system here, until the new two-tier higher education system (Bologne Agreement), nobody took bachelor degrees, so one would have BA or BSc status (not an unusual thing to see here; instead of saying it, people would give the name of the degree anyway, since they had studied for it, even it it has not been officially awarded... provided that was not their terminal degree: in such cases, the rule was to take the actual paper for it; otherwise, one would be BA or BSc, even in the absence of the paper qualification). This was subject - of course - to their being able to provide evidence to the proper authorities... and that I can do, and have done.

Here's my question, David. How many degrees do you have which specifically deal with the toxicity of mercury? Or, have you ever conducted any "reseach" where you looked to see what happened when mercury was exposed to human/animal tissue? That's what I want to know, David. You see I haven't studied that either but I know that I need to look to the experts who have. Do that, David, and get back to me.

You say you have an MEd.If you have, that's fantastic, it really is, and I'm not being sarcastic.It's a marvellous achievement for anyone.It is obvious from the way you post letters after your name, that you feel it's necessary to prove to people that autistics aren't necessarily unintelligent or incapable of obtaining academic success.I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

All I am trying to say is that there are different degrees of autism, and no matter how many times you hear someome saying this isn't relevant, it is. It is very relevant and it's not a 'my childs more autistic than your child' competition. It's what helps to create and perpetuate this mercury/not mercury devide, and distract from proving the cause of autism.

People who don't believe autism is caused by mercury are using high functioning autistics who feel undermined/undervalued by people who do think autism is caused by mercury. You and many others, are being spoon fed propagana, that we think you are not a valuable member of society. That you are a "worthless human being"This is absolutely not true!

I would love my son to get an MA, BA, but at the moment I have no option but to concentrate my attention on his violent mood swings, lack of communication, obsessive rituals and the effect this is having on his six year old brother.I have been through the speech therapy, I have been through the Hannen Programme and I'm now probably going to waste my time on the NAT advanced early bird programme.I know that with the right approach at home, he has and will continue to developed at his own pace. I believe this because I believe he is brain damaged by mercury.I know "brain damage" in itself sounds offensive to a lot of autistic adults and if I were autistic, I would probably be offended myself. But I would hope I would still have an open and inquisitive mind as to the cause of my autism.

However, there are different degrees of "brain damage" and you appear to be less affected than others.

I am researching chelation, very carefully and very thoroughly for my son, but I am in no way advocating that you should do this.You have your own opinion on this, and have made your own decision onthis.All I am saying is make an informed decision on everything you do.Look at and research the information on mercury and autism.You can believe autism is caused by mercury without agreeing with chelation.

I don't. My university does. I got the confirmation e-mail for that today from Glenys.

jonsmum: "If you have, that's fantastic, it really is, and I'm not being sarcastic."

Well, put it this way, I worked my bollocks off to get it. Which is the same for everything I've done, and since there is no wrong in stating what I have achieved... I think I have the right to feel free enough to state my achievements. Without people being sarcastic about it. Your friend JBJr has a different view. He thinks it's his duty to belittle anyone and everyone who disagrees with him. And you were doing this too.

jonsmum: "It's a marvellous achievement for anyone."

I think so.

jonsmum: "It is obvious from the way you post letters after your name, that you feel it's necessary to prove to people that autistics aren't necessarily unintelligent or incapable of obtaining academic success."

Not quite. It's about MY achievement which, when accomplished within a system that has consistently failed to take into account the needs of different learners. That was the system in the UK; when I was a really still rather non-verbal 5yr old at a UK school, and when I was an older still autistic child being seen by an educational psychologist who basically sold my arse by declaring that I have no learning difficulties; I was later diagnosed as Asperger-autistic, dyslexic and dyspraxic. Incidentally, the psychologist who did that was a Chartered Psychologist, so no amount of 'registration' for psychologists can demonstrate to me that it means quality service: it simply doesn't, since the predictors for provision of high quality service are not in the exams or the degrees obtained... they are in the people who provide high quality service. And it hasn't changed since then. This is why I went into applied educational psychology myself.

jonsmum: "I don't think anyone would disagree with that."

Why do I sense a 'but' coming along here?

jonsmum: "I am researching chelation, very carefully and very thoroughly for my son, but I am in no way advocating that you should do this."

On this issue, you are very different from JBJr.

jonsmum: "All I am saying is make an informed decision on everything you do.Look at and research the information on mercury and autism.You can believe autism is caused by mercury without agreeing with chelation."

I have. I've looked at it, and continued to look at it but I remain unconvinced of it, and for good reason. When I have been able to find a job in the very foreigner-unfriendly and autistic-unfriendly job market here in Finland I may get the luxury of being able to explain why, but that would require an open-mind stance from you if you are to see what I mean.

jonsmum: "I know 'brain damage' in itself sounds offensive to a lot of autistic adults and if I were autistic, I would probably be offended myself. But I would hope I would still have an open and inquisitive mind as to the cause of my autism."

From my position (I can't speak for everynody else on the spectrum, and I don't pretend to do so), I have seen MRI images of my brain. I have looked at the images of the cortex, and of the limbic system and of the brainstem... nothing 'abnormal' detected (in terms of damage). The use of the term 'brain damage' may not be the issue with many autistics: it's far more likely that it is the ASSUMPTION of brain damage that pisses us off. I do not deny the involvement of structural difference in autistic people's brains: this is quite evident in the results of psychological tests, to the point where - whilst not being diagnsotic in and of themselves - such tests can provide useful information about the way in which the autistic's brain organises sensory input along with the stored knowledge of previous input and forms perceptions. Perceptually, autistics are very different. The structural differences that bring this about can only be developed in utero (brain damage post natum does not cause the perceptual differences seen in autistics' test results, but it does bring about other perceptual difficulties). In utero in practical terms negates the influence of mercury toxicity being involved in the aetiology of autism. I would be stupid to deny that, in some autistic people's cases, there may well be additional brain damage incurring global learning difficulties (I would be happy to see research on this, but most research is clinical and much educational psychological research tends not to touch on the cognitive neuropsychology of it).

jonsmum: "I would love my son to get an MA, BA, but at the moment I have no option but to concentrate my attention on his violent mood swings, lack of communication, obsessive rituals and the effect this is having on his six year old brother."

If the research on the Early Bird work is anything to go by (I'm an associate editor for Good Autism Practice, and so I get free copies of the journal... a lot is being made of this Early Bird stuff, and it does indeed look promising), you may find that implementing the activities recommended by the EB trainers will help: many seem to, according to the research (which - yes - is still in its infancy, but nonetheless is promising). I would say not to expect miracles. But to expect at least slightly significant improvement (on a semi-continuous basis) in your son's ability to act purposefully within his environment (as Wechsler defined 'intelligence') would not be unreasonable.

As for chelation, my own view is as follows:

1) Autism is not mercury poisoning (mercury poisoning is mercury poisoning; the criteria are very different)

2) Chelation for autism is not, in any way, a scientifically validated option (no properly conducted studies of it exist; this is also true, incidentally, for ABA treatments)

3) Chelation for poisoning by heavy metals is risky in adults; it is more so for children

4) I can only chose not to risk my child's life on the basis of an anecdotally pushed treatment (even if I believed that it was mercury poisoning, which I don't... the evidence put forward doesn't add up)

jonsmum: "You can believe autism is caused by mercury without agreeing with chelation."

Maybe, but - on the basis of the evidence - I don't have any reason to believe that it is caused by mercury poisoning.

I should point out that, when Wakefield conducted his study in the mid to late 1990s, he was originally studying a possible relationship between MMR vaccine and something called Heller's syndrome. So far, every case description I have seen (with enough detail in them, at least) of this 'mercury-induced-autism' fits the criteria for Heller's syndrome.

I would say that there is absolutely a diagnostic error: but it is not that of autism when it should be mercury poisoning; it is, rather, that of autism when it should be Heller's syndrome. And even qualitatively, that is quite different from the developmental thing we call autistic difficulties.

The diagnostics thing is a major part of my studies, since - where I live and work (Finland) - there is very little expertise on this matter; and I'm enough of what the Finnish call a 'dot-fucker' to pay attention to the details of these things (where most professionals are default set to 'see' more globally, which can actually play against clients/patients in these sorts of issues.

I'd like to think that you have at least been convinced that I *am* claiming an expertise that I have; the reason I was made associate editor in Finland for GAP was because my supervisor was satisfied that, when I'm talking about autism in particular, I don't have a tendency to 'talk bollocks' like most non-specialised professionals do. There's a reason why I've put the Heller's syndrome thing out there for you is because I think that - should you wish to pick it up and see how far that one can be rolled - you might well be surprised. And, even if it doesn't (after a *thorough* investigation) pan out... at least you know more about what to rule out.

DNA, really a psychologist who has successfully completed his MEd degree, who really has been teaching the best professionals in Finland (who really did turn out to have little useful knowledge on autism)... and who (when people turn off the sarcasm, as jonsmum seems to have done... I respect her for that) will discuss matters quite seriously (i.e., return the compliment, as I hope that this post has demonstrated). Bed-time... Two 25-page booklets to write tomorrow... training materials for the Finnish crowd... they don't have anything good here.

CSN: "Here's my question, David. How many degrees do you have which specifically deal with the toxicity of mercury? Or, have you ever conducted any "reseach" where you looked to see what happened when mercury was exposed to human/animal tissue? That's what I want to know, David. You see I haven't studied that either but I know that I need to look to the experts who have. Do that, David, and get back to me."

Nah. Unless, of course, you can afford to pay my fees. I am not cheap.

DNA, psychologist - not biochemist; was married to a biochemist who is now a psychologist herself... we used to discuss this issue (with Stryer at hand) she thinks the mercury thing can't be done.

Chelation has been used for 60 years safely, no deaths until someone grabbed the wrong type of EDTA last year. The decision to do it was simple for me since I knew my son was normal as a baby and I knew he had way too much mercury injected when this information started becoming known around 1999. I learned about chelation in 2001 and it took me 3 years to convince my wife to try it. Those were 3 wasted years that might have made a huge difference in his chances of recovery. He's much better off than he was 2 years ago and I think he'll make it all the way back to normalcy. I can't guess how long it will take, nobody can. David, the proper treatment for mercury poisoning is chelation and any doctor will tell you that. It is proven. It just hasn't been validated as a treatment for autism because the medical profession caused the epidemic and refuses to admit it. It's not the least bit risky when using a proper protocol. The fact that children are recovering does prove it works and it proves that mercury was the cause. Making unreasonable demands for proof just makes those who make those demands sound ridiculous. If autism is not mercury poisoning, explain why Verstraeten kept rewriting his report and why the data he used is being hidden at a cost of $20 million to the CDC. You worked hard for your degrees. So did lots of others. I just earned them to fill squares and it came easy for me. I'm not proud of mine, they're just something I did. You want to tout your education for your patients if you're practicing psychology, fine. When you do it to impress people on blogs, it just makes you look like a jerk. So, let's hear why kids who never developed suddenly start improving with chelation. If you don't think it works, you must have some explanation for that improvement.

"What do you mean by the mercury thing can't be done? This makes no sense."

By that (and bear in mind it was about 3am when I was writing that), I mean that there is - as far as she is concerned - no feasable pathway for mercury to cause autism (given what the science - and I mean the REAL science) tells us.

Oh, and JBJr:

"You worked hard for your degrees. So did lots of others. I just earned them to fill squares and it came easy for me. I'm not proud of mine, they're just something I did. You want to tout your education for your patients if you're practicing psychology, fine. When you do it to impress people on blogs, it just makes you look like a jerk."

I don't actually remember asking you for your opinion on anything. When I want your opinion, I'll tell you what it is.

JBJr: "David, the proper treatment for mercury poisoning is chelation and any doctor will tell you that. It is proven."

Who is actually disputing that? I'm not. What is being disputed is that autism is mercury poisoning.

JBJr: "If you don't think it works, you must have some explanation for that improvement."

The only autistic children who NEVER show signs of developmental gains are the dead ones.

"p.s. why the somewhat calmer and more reasonable responses on this blog as opposed to Leitch's? You're a nasty pit-bull over there :)"

Actually, if you look at how jonsmum approached me in her latest post... none of the sarcasm and a lot more of the showing an appreciation of my experience and point of view... well... there it is. I'll respond to people how they approach me and my kind. She decided to change her way of talking to me, and I find it easier then to actually start communicating with her. When the Behaviour Analyst on ABFH's blog changed his way of talking to us all there, it was easier to relate to him too. I'm not particularly a 'nasty pit-bull'... but if you look at JBJr's typical way of talking to anyone who disagrees with him, you'll see why it's usually hard not to get spiky with people.

JBJr's way of communicating really fucks a lot of people off (including many on the autism-mercury side); no wonder his kid won't communicate with him... when my parents were like that with me as a kid, I wasn't up for talking to anybody! Not that they get it all that much clearer these days, but they still do better than he does.

Incidentally, most of my responses on Kevin's blog have been calm and reasoned; but when JBJr and his like go in there and fuck things up... I ain't gonna show any respect for them. I suppose also, even when I'm posting what I think is actually a calm response, my style (quite academic) tends to look a bit terse... just the way I am, but not necessarily an indicator of me sitting here being an angry bastard from the planet Fu' Ky-ooo.

Sometimes, in response to JBJr and his like, I take a Billy Connolly type of 'flighting' stance... and if you've seen him when he swears, you'd notice that he's actually grinning as he does it... and, me being a Scot, I do the same (Finnish guys and Scottish ones are very similar in that respect).

By that (and bear in mind it was about 3am when I was writing that), I mean that there is - as far as she is concerned - no feasable pathway for mercury to cause autism (given what the science - and I mean the REAL science) tells us.

Perhaps we are all better off now that she has changed her expertise. As for you David, I can accept the fact that you could be good at diagnosing or working with autistic clients or working on articles regarding behaviours, etc. That's wonderful. I will be more inclined to see you as an "expert" in the particulars of autism/biomedical issues/toxicity when you show that you have experience there... otherwise, we are all on an equal playing field. I'm sure that you hate that... but it's true.

David;I can see, nothing will persuade you to reconsider the mercury causes autism argument, and I will not push this issue with you any further. It is a waste of our time.I will leave you with one comment regarding the 'neurodivese'.

You are a psychologist.Use your education and skills as a psychologist to observe the dialogue between the two 'sides' of this argument.You say; "I'll respond to people the way they approach me and my kind"You must understand, it works both ways. Meaning, I will respond to people in the way they approach me.

JB is emphatic in his view that mecury in vaccines caused his sons autism, and will continue to argue this point until he is blue in the face.He swears and says things like "the neurodiverse are a bunch of nuts", etc. He argues with people that they should get the mercury out of their brains, or that if they make no attempt to cure their disabled child, then they are akin to child abusers. I agree with him on this, when we are talking about 'profound classic autism', when a child has little quality of life. Their is a huge difference between this and Aspergers syndrome.

He is probably sick to the back teeth of the highly offensive and personal remarks about his son.I have read many of these callous remarks. Ms Clark recently said, "I'm glad you're son can bite you", and this was tame compared to other remarks i've read suggesting he want's to kill his son!This is diabolical! Look at this comment to me on this blog. "one day you kid will kick shit out of you for being too stupid to realise he's not a worthless being!

I would love to video that day!"

Do you consider this, less abusive than any of JB's comments about other people's autistic children?How would you have felt if someone said this to your mother when you were a child?

Take a look at Kassiane's site. At her blog on the autism speaks video.I entered the debate about this video with a reasonable and civil argument. But I was disagreeing with them! What! Who is this! How dare she!.I was met with hostility, sarcasm and an invitation by Kassiane for her supporters to bitch about me.I learned a lot from that site.

As psychologists, surely you and your wife can see the obvious and the insidious sly abuse on Kevin Leitch's site.Can you not see the sarcasm, the condescension and the patronizing way he belittle's anyone who dares not to agree with him.

You and your wife do a joint asessment of him and see what you come up with.

"Take a look at Kassiane's site. At her blog on the autism speaks video.I entered the debate about this video with a reasonable and civil argument. But I was disagreeing with them! What! Who is this! How dare she!.I was met with hostility, sarcasm and an invitation by Kassiane for her supporters to bitch about me.I learned a lot from that site."

Yeah Kassiane and soapboxmom have serious mental issues. They need to be chelated.

jonsmum: "You and your wife do a joint assessment of him and see what you come up with."

Ex-wife.

As I recall, it was JBJr who began trolling the autistics' places and being very offensive even before anyone started getting into that mode of behaviour in responding to him. And every time that he makes any ventures into these places (be it a blog or a list), he does exactly the same thing. He makes flagrantly offensive comments and ends up being treated to nasty barrages.

Any behaviour analyst would spot the problem there: it isn't to do with propensities on the so-called 'neurodiversity' side... it's him. And anyone who does what he does is highly likely, since he has repeatedly produced this response from people, to get the same thing.

When people take a different approach (as you did in the post I responded to earlier), that in itself facilitates easier communication. I hope that you realise that I saw that difference in your approach, and was able to respond more reasonably because of it. I certainly felt better about that way of communicating... and - even though I am never going to be convinced that chelation is really appropriate in the package of helping resources - that doesn't mean that I don't have other ideas that you could use (or that, conversely, you don't have anything to say that I might find useful myself). That is what I was hoping you'd pick up from my latest response to you.

JBJr: "Certainly doesn't seem to be the type of thing a pending psychologist would say."

LoL... so transparent. Nah... it's ths sort of thing that one would generally say when someone is sticking their nose where it isn't wanted. I didn't ask for a JBJr opinion. I don't need one. A JBJr opinion is not really something to want to have.

jonsmum: "Can you not see the sarcasm, the condescension and the patronizing way he belittle's anyone who dares not to agree with him."

I see that in JBJr's behaviour and since it is he that begins it where-ever he goes, it's hardly surprising that others retaliate with like. You yourself have demonstrated that, when you post something that isn't sarcastic, you can actually give the signal to the other person that it was a genuine communication attempt and that such a signal facilitates better communication (this is actually part of the Early Bird work... parent-child communication skills; here, it would be non-autistic-with-autistic communication skills). I actually felt better responding to that post.

jonsmum: "How would you have felt if someone said this to your mother when you were a child?"

Actually, I kinda half-wish someone had said it, since it might have made her think about how she communicated with me. I spent the last 40 years trying to prove a point to her about me (i.e., not lazy, but disorganised; not neurotic about writing, but demotivated by long-term lack of recognition of some serious specific learning difficulties; and so on).

jonsmum: "He is probably sick to the back teeth of the highly offensive and personal remarks about his son."

We are similarly sick of his remarks about us and our kids; and even when people have tried to be reasonable with him, he has persisted in being offensive. If he wants a concerted effort from autistics to be nice to him, he might find that being nice first to us is a good way to go. Sad thing is, I'm not sure he can do it. I have tried MANY times, but he continues to be abusive. So why should I bother? You on the other hand... you changed the way you talked in a post, and I responded accordingly. Which someone else actually noticed. I'd say that's good preliminary evidence of how changing one's mode of talking to people can lead to significant changes in the response one gets.

And, jonsmum, here's a case in point, regarding continuous sarcasm:

CSN: "I will be more inclined to see you as an "expert" in the particulars of autism/biomedical issues/toxicity when you show that you have experience there... otherwise, we are all on an equal playing field."

Not really. I have seen very little understanding from you of anything. Maybe you could lose the attitude, and I might talk to you more easily; but the last time I tried that (assuming you are not JBJr but are SueM), you carried on being bitchy.

B.A said:"LoL... so transparent. Nah... it's ths sort of thing that one would generally say when someone is sticking their nose where it isn't wanted. I didn't ask for a JBJr opinion. I don't need one. A JBJr opinion is not really something to want to have."-

You are on the man's blog, your toxic dope! What the fuck do you really expect?! Huff back to the neurodiversity carneval if can't handle the fellow.

Duh! Put it this way, my question here is: Is jonsmum the only one on the autism-mercury side who can actually tone down the nasties and start communicating properly? So far, the evidence suggests so. Which I why I'm actually prepared to have at least a civil post for her, when she responds to mine.

You on the other hand... well... Not gonna waste my time on a lost cause.

David; Everyone in this WHOLE argument is being sarcastic and insulting to each other.This sort of thing is unavoidable, only there is a line that shouldn't be crossed, and that is, making ugly comments about innocent children.

You said;"Actually, I kinda half-wish someone had said it, since it might have made her think about how she communicated with me. I spent the last 40 years trying to prove a point to her about me (i.e., not lazy, but disorganised; not neurotic about writing, but demotivated by long-term lack of recognition of some serious specific learning difficulties; and so on)"

I'm sorry your mother didn't understand you. She was wrong and only she can make up for any damage she has done.

And here's the but. I am not like your mother. My son does not need anyone saying they hope he'll "kick the shit" out of me. Or any presumptions that I'm "to stupid to realise he's not a worthless being"

Believing that thimerosal causes autism does not equate to being a hopeless ignorant parent, who doesn't use other strategies and interventions to help their child.

If 'mouse' were to say any thing like that to my face, I promise, I would be on him/her like a ton of shit. Like you said, it's about responding to the way someone approaches you.

In England, when a child is diagnosed as autistic, they are then passed straight over to the local education authority, who proceed to manipulate the parents into placing their child into mainstream education, (whether this appropriate or not).There is no follow up with the diagnostic team, and no reviews.

If the government cared about the cause of autism, they would and should be giving every diagnosed child, an MRI scan, and testing for mercury poisoning. I have said this since my son was diagnosed.The fact that they don't do this, speaks volumes.

"When people take a different approach (as you did in the post I responded to earlier), that in itself facilitates easier communication. I hope that you realise that I saw that difference in your approach, and was able to respond more reasonably because of it"

David, I hope you realise, that's exactly why I approached you in this way. (still no sarcasm intended).When you and I are back at each other's throats, which we will be. The seriousness of what we disagree on will make this inevitable. Remember that I am capable and wish to argue my views reasonably, and I am not the only one.

You on the other hand... well... Not gonna waste my time on a lost cause. -

LOL! The only here who hits the diagnostic criterias for 'lost' is you. You're so confused that it wouldn't help you if someone injected the information in your blood proving that EthylHg ions from pedriatic vaccines causes autism and other compromised functional values.

Why is it so hard for you to grasp that the health authorites with potential trillion dollars in liability want to cover this up? Do you still belive the top goverment studies that in their time stated that cigaretts didn't pose a health risk?

The truth will get a just exposment one day. You'll see.

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest of the enemy of the truth"- Albert Einstein

Not really. I have seen very little understanding from you of anything. Maybe you could lose the attitude, and I might talk to you more easily; but the last time I tried that (assuming you are not JBJr but are SueM), you carried on being bitchy.

I knew that it would bother you to be on an equal playing field with me. It is true, however. Unless you have a toxicology/chemistry degree in which you have actually studied mercury and its effects. I'm sorry, we are equal, my friend... pending degree or not.

WJ (Wanker John?): "You're so confused that it wouldn't help you if someone injected the information in your blood proving that EthylHg ions from pedriatic vaccines causes autism and other compromised functional values."

After this I'm out (if jonsmum does in fact want to discuss anything that we might have that we *can* discuss, I'll be elsewhere)... no point being here and being treated like shite by an imbecile like JBJr, who can't even decide who the fuck he is today!

John, grow the fuck up, or shut the fuck up. For a start, you have absolutely fuck all evidence of any mercury poisoning in MY brain or anywhere else. Nor do you have any reason to assume that there is. Maybe you need a therapist to get over your hate of autistic people (I believe that jonsmum does not indeed hate autistics; JBJr, however, is something else entirely... he hates purely to hate), but I am not your therapist, John... I will be for about 5000 bucks an hour, if you like. However, I don't hold out any hope of relief from that hatred, John. You will die a bitter and twisted old man.

Sad, that is.

DNA-really pitying JBJr for his hatred and his behaviour; I know he can't help it, but he should get treatment for it. I'm gone.

Bye jonsmum (Sue L?)... was nice at least to have *something* sensible with you. Really it was. Whatever we would eventually lock horns on, at least you left the sarcasm at the door when talking with me there. I do appreciate that. All the best with you son, whatever you choose.

"In England, when a child is diagnosed as autistic, they are then passed straight over to the local education authority, who proceed to manipulate the parents into placing their child into mainstream education, (whether this appropriate or not).There is no follow up with the diagnostic team, and no reviews."

Yes, I know. I trained in the Midlands there, but have been a practitioner here and it pains me to say that, whilst the situation in the UK is better than it is in Finland, the difference in many many cases is not really significant.

My training, for what it's worth to you, does tell me that when a child is given the autism diagnosis, there should have been medical checks as well as psycho-educational ones.

As for the mercury issue... you know my views on that BUT... were I your child's educational psychologist, I would refer for a tox screen because at least you'd get to find out if there was a tox issue going on or not, and - if there was - what it would be. It's wrong to deny a concerned parent useful information, one way or another. If a parent has a legitimate concern (and, hell, ANY concern regarding children is legitimate, I'd have thought!), it is the duty of whatever practitioner that parent consults with to give the parent peace of mind *but not at the expense of accuracy of information*.

The emphasis on placement in mainstream may well be appropriate for some autistics, but not for all; and I agree that there is a manipulation issue going on: the root of it being money.

As for the lack of follow up, I have to say that such practice falls well short of what should happen. Review is important in any case. Here's an irony for you: Finland has an excellent system of very regular review during childhood (much better, in fact, than the UK's system: not many things here impress me, but that thing actually did)... but they still miss so much (my thesis was a case-study on a chap who fell through the net, and the review that would have been most useful for him would have been whilst he was at polytechnic still... educational support could have been given and he'd probably have been able to get his BEng degree, albeit at a push).

I'm sorry that my so-called colleagues (other practitioners) engage in such pitiful practice with you and other parents and children like your son to about the same extent that they did with my parents and me. I'm actually embarrassed by their ideas of good practice, to be honest. Whatever we disagree on, I do agree that you have a right to be informed as best you can be about your child and his progress and likely progress in the future... and I am (again, if it is worth anything to you, and I hope that it is) very much in support of you on that and other issues you raised in that post. I will never agree on the mercury thing, we have established that; maybe we will lock horns elsewhere because of it. But I really do hope, and very sincerely so, that you can get your local practitioners to discharge their duties appropriately at some point soon. And I hope that your realise that I do mean well in the content of at least the latest few of my posts. I really did appreciate the change of tone, and the chance it gave me to change mine.

SueL: "David;You didn't mention the LEA or local social services.I agree, they are abysmal."

Indeed they are.

Like I say, I wish you all the best with whatever you do. I'd like to think that I'd make a better practitioner than those who are not pulling their weight for you and your boy. So far, my clients in Finland have all fed back to me directly that I probably have.

Andrews; I'll tell you again since I know you're slow. I'm not posting under anything but Foresam. This is the type of crap Leech pulls with his half-quotes and extrapolated illogic. At least when you try this crap here. I get to respond without some dishonest nitwit deleting my comments. When the lot of you neurodiverse liars earn a smidgeon of respect, I'll treat you that way. Your practice of heisting quotes off of lists where you don't belong and then bashing the people whose quotes you take out of context is deplorable. Do you think you deserve respect for that? You have a bunch of parents trying to help their kids who don't understand a damn thing about the science and you assholes are trying to make them look foolish just because they ask questions that they need answers to to help their children. Your laughing at these people and you think that deserves respect? You come up with this nonsense about killing the autistic person by curing him and making parents out to be monsters who try to help their kids who can't do a damn thing for themselves. You call parents liars who talk about their children recovering. You go way out your way to publicize a mistake that resulted in death and use it with your delusional logic to claim that all chelation is harmful. You are nothing but a bunch of lying scumbags and you deserve everything I've said to all of you. You with your pompous attitude about being an expert on autism just because your too stupid to realize that autism is no longer incurable and without a known cause. What does it take for you to smarten up? You don't know anything about autism. You can't tell us the genetic cause of your own condition because the cause is most probably not genetic. If your parent had autistic traits, he had mercury poisoning traits. Find me 1 in 166 75 year olds or shit up about their being autism before 1943 that was not frgile X or Rett's or some other identified genetic condition. You can't do it and neither can any of the other propaganda wizards who infest Neurodiversity. You may actually be dumb enough to believe what you say but, trust me, some of those assholes you associate with are professional propaganda experts. No group of people could be stupid enough on their own to refuse to see the good that has been done by Safe Minds and others who uncovered the cause of this God damn epidemic. It's not OK to poison children and your pals who keep denying this link are going to be found someday by people like me who will rip their fucking heads off. No wonder they all opt for anonymity. They know what they're doing and they know what will happen to them if some fathers of poisoned kids ever get their hands on the weasels. It's no different than if one of you lowlifes raped my daughter. You better pray a cop gets you before I do. There you have it Sanity Pending. Now go fuck yourself.

Jonsmum and other decent people: I'm quite used to the abuse from the ND's. It doesn't excuse my language in my retort to Andrews. His trying to make himself come off as respectable by being calm just won't fly with me since he's spouting the same nonsense and, even though he's a victim here, he deserves to be slapped down. Andrews is the perfect dupe to be sucked into a cult. It will be extremely difficult to deprogram him. I feel bad for him but I can't fly to Finland to meet him face to face and talk sense into him.

John; As far as your language and response to David is concerned, I think it is excusable, considering his comments to you.It's just a shame that your comments will probably be quoted, and used against you, while David's offensive comments won't.

Any Mouse, you are grasping again. Do you think that John Best is the only one who thinks that injecting babies with mercury is dangerous practice? It's funny to see you getting so worked up over how many of "us" there are...

mercury is not the vitamin m;Thanks for the evidence. Keep it coming.This is probably a stupid question, but do you think there would be any point in gathering all the evidence and dumping it at the door of the Whitehouse? Or has this already been done?

Has anyone seen the youtube video of Andrews that's on Leitch's blog? I think I've seen Andrews before but I'm not sure where. He reminds me of the picture of the bum on the cover of the Jethro Tull album "Aqualung". I also thought he might be the guy from "Animal House" who was playing the guitar that Belushi smashed against the wall except you have to imagine him about 300 pounds ago without the beard. Then, on a second look, he looked something like the guy in that Austin Powers movie who was called "Fat Bastard". I had an image of what he might look like and it was pretty close except his eyes seemed to be spinning clockwise instead of counter clockwise. Anyhow, seeing what he looks like gives you an idea just how screwed up he is. Who the hell else could be in school for 40 years and still have a BA pending?

I'm afraid I can't contribute much more substantive information to the US goverment than what exellent non-profit organizations like GenerationRescue and Safeminds have. This is an ethical issue, not a scientific one. Sadly, neither the US or the UK health officals along with the WHO posses much care for children's welfare ad development.

And to comment you speculations about Mr. Blair's MMR choice for his son; I do not think he had it triple nor seperate. I think little Leo was spared. Lucky Leo.

john;I've seen the David Andrews video. I see what you mean about Aqualung.Not that I judge people by how 'smart' they look (I'm a bit of a mess myself), but I'm not boasting about being an expert on autism, or about my qualification as an educational psychologist.

Do you still think "he's a victim here"?I have my doubts.I have a hard time getting my head around seeing him in this video and going over his comments here, and on other blogs.

David; If you are reading this I have got to say. I am not doubting your qualifications, but any educational psychologist who would say the following, would not get within an inch of my child.

"John, grow the fuck up, or shut the fuck up. For a start, you have absolutely fuck all evidence of any mercury poisoning in MY brain or anywhere else. Nor do you have any reason to assume that there is. Maybe you need a therapist to get over your hate of autistic people (I believe that jonsmum does not indeed hate autistics; JBJr, however, is something else entirely... he hates purely to hate), but I am not your therapist, John... I will be for about 5000 bucks an hour, if you like. However, I don't hold out any hope of relief from that hatred, John. You will die a bitter and twisted old man."

Jonsmum; I really do consider Andrews and every other autistic person associated with Neurodiversity to be victims. However, they can't be reasoned with. So, when they keep spouting their mantra, you just can't be nice to them. They all know that, as parents, we all want the same things they want for everyone afflicted with autism. They should all be given every assistance they need to achieve their potential. Bringing enlightenment to public opinion is part of that. Sane people have to draw the line when they convince parents not to help their autistic kids beat this condition that is going to land a lot of them in institutions. The is no logic behind their opposition to a cure so you have to suspect ulterior motives for such insanity. Their professional blogging has the potential to affect public opinion for the majority of the public who are uninformed about autism. So, all of their arguments need to be blown up at every opportunity. Without public opinion on our side, our kids will never get the treatment they need. Parents who haven't done the reading that we have will never learn how to help their kids. The epidemic will go on unabated in the third world and the criminals who propogate the epidemic will never be stopped. If some autistic cult members who can't reason out the truth insist on being vocal about the beliefs they have been duped into, they'll have to be slapped down. If they take some abuse, it's unfortunate but essential. The fact that the poisoning is still going on is the most despicable crime in the history of the planet. Some naive people probably think our government will tell the truth about all of this. David won't believe any of this until it's written in a history book. He only knows how to accept learning from teachers. He hasn't learned how to teach himself.

Wow! I just saw the video! David Andrews can sing and write and teach and lecture. He's intelligent and skilled and qualified. I wonder what he's doing hanging around a blog with losers like john best and jonsmum?

By the way, I believe the fellow on the cover of Aqualung is drawn on Ian Anderson, who is now, I believe, a Lord (anyway a very talented rich and respected man). David Andrews should be flattered to be compared to such people. His musical talent is certainly as good.

Dear David. Stop trying to save John Best. May I have your autograph instead.

And, John, keep promoting David's video. The more you disparage it the more people will want to see it. All publicity is good.

I have finally figured out how your existance can be beneficial to autistic people. You can stand, as a safe example on the internet, of the evil people to be avoided in real life. With no offence to Charlie Brown, as I quite like him wheras I do not like you, I hold you up in front of the class and say:

"This is a bad person. He will bait and abuse you to make himself feel good. Study him closely, identify the dcharacteristics, and minimize association with people like John Best."

Mouse; Andrews' childish song crying for help can not be compared with one of the greats of Rock and Roll just because he looks like a bum who crawled out of the gutter. After you are deprogrammed, you will see things in a more rational light.

Ian Anderson dressed up like a crazy bum/lunatic and capered about on stage like a crazy man. What a wonderful statement for neurodiversity.

And musically what David does is very comparable. Though I'm sure you know little about music so I will not bother you with the details.

The more you criticise this the more ridiculous you sound because David is quite good. A capable, successful autistic person. As an individual he discdedits all your arguments. A great thorn in your side, I am sure.

Hmmmmmmm. I wonder if there are other autistic people like David Andrews. You know, I think they are legion.

"By the way, I believe the fellow on the cover of Aqualung is drawn on Ian Anderson, who is now, I believe, a Lord (anyway a very talented rich and respected man). David Andrews should be flattered to be compared to such people. His musical talent is certainly as good".

The picture of "Aqualung" on the album cover may have been drawn from a physical likeness of Ian Anderson, but that's as far as any comparison goes.The character, "Aqualung" is a pathetic homeless 'tramp', who likes to watch 'little' girls.

I think David A would be far from "flattered" to be compared to this character.

Ian Anderson, on the other hand, is a wealthy, well respected, brilliant musician, and self taughtgenius, as a flautist.To say David's "musical talent is certainly as good" is an insult to Ian Anderson, (who is not a Lord).

"This is a bad person. He will bait and abuse you to make himself feel good. Study him closely, identify the dcharacteristics, and minimize association with people like John Best."

You are confusing John Best with Kevin Leitch.

You are very impressionable, any mouse, and should minimize your association with people like Kevin Leitch.

"He's intelligent and skilled and qualified. I wonder what he's doing hanging around a blog with losers like john best and jonsmum?"

As for me, I hang around here, John, because I find it fascinating that such a person like you can exist and I enjoy insulting you. As for Ian Anderson vs David Andrews musical talent I don't think there needs to be a competition. David is extremely good and comparing them is not an insult to either Anderson or Andrews. You, not being a musician, would not understand and you should keep your remarks confined to your areas of expertise... Seeing as you have no areas of expertise you should just shut up.

you know, I never bookmarked your blog ,john. To find it I just google "hating john best" and there it is.

But thank you for making me thinking of aqualung. A bit of musical/literary analysis which I enjoy. You certainly have it wrong.

The song is certainly a plea for understanding for the old man. The beginning is a refection of what the assholes of society, yourself a prime example, would see. And that is all you see. Yet the music changes. It becomes quieter and it presents Aqualung as a human being.

Perhaps Ian Anderson is saying that the Aqualungs are NOT all panty sniffing reprobates. Perhaps he is saying that the aqualungs are human beings like us. As he says at the end "You know its only me."

And then he repeats the beginning lines at the end when we should be seeing them with a different light.

Did you listen to the rest of the lyrics, John, or are you just fixated on the pedophile imagery.

"You, not being a musician, would not understand and you should keep your remarks confined to your areas of expertise..."

That's were your wrong.I play the piano, guitar, and clarinet.I played 1st clarinet in the Northern Symphonia Youth Orcherstra for years, before I left school.I concentrate on the piano now.My son loves to hear me play Debussy.I've been playing the guitar since I was seven years old.There is nothing David A could tell or teach me about music.

Seeing as you seem to have put your foot in it, by presuming I have no expertise in the very thing, I do have some expertise in,I think YOU should just shut up.

Mouse; What makes you think I'm not a musician? I used to play the trombone and the drums. I saw Jethro Tull in concert about 30 years ago. There is not the slightest comparison between them and Andrews except for that picture of Aqualung. I wouldn't hire Andrews to muck stalls in the stable I used to manage. By the looks of him, he's probably more effusive than the horses.

any mouse; How long did it take you to research and analyse, "Aqualung".

Have you ever heard the quote;

"Somtimes a cigar is just a cigar"(no doubt you'll do a quick search)

It's pretty obvious Ian Anderson had an amount of empathy for this poor homeless tramp, that he probably came across regularly in a park, somewhere.

"Aqualung my friend, don't you start away uneasy.You poor old sod, you see it's only me."

Do you understand the meaning in the above?

Listen to the song again. The lyrics don't end with, "You know it's only me."

Could you give us your quick analysis of "Locomotive Breath",since your such an expert in the meaning of lyrics.

BTW, you're getting yourself a bit muddled with the separate identities here.You're addressing John when you're responding to my comments.You're saying John and I are the same person, and then you're telling me to "go back to sleep", because you don't think I exist.

(You are still (both?) lieing twits, and both quoting Aqualung titles as if you were one person. John, you are ridiculous. Your talking to yourself is a form of masturbation. If Jonsmum is not you then it is a hand job.)

I will forget the insults , John, for once (though you do ask for them). I have been looking through utube and I would like your opinion on this video.

These people and this conference totally discredit all your arguments about brain damage and neurodiversity having no value and that autistic children cannot grow up to be quite capable autistic adults. Your son should be lucky enough to grow up to be like any of these people. With your help he can, and hopefully without your help he can, too.

I don't expect your opinion to be positive or sensible so don't worry.

any mouse;I know your qeustion was to John.He's probably in bed.It's about 3 or 4AM in the usa.I'd like to give you my opinion.

I've watched this video, but it doesn't acually show you any of the speakers presentations or lectures.It's more of an introdution about the conference.I would like to hear the speakers and what they had to say, but you don't get to hear anything about discrediting arguments about neurodiversity and brain damage.

Was the focus of this conference not about, disability rights and the perception of autistics as valuable members of society?

I for one, am not disputing that autistic children can grow up to be quite capable autistic adults, or arguing against disability rights. I am fighting for my sons disabilty rights, because he can't do this for himself.

"Your son should be lucky enough to grow up to be like any of these people."

There are different levels of severity with autism. You cannot deny this.The speakers in this video had Aspergers, which while on the autistic spectrum, is far less debilitating than profound autism.Surely you cannot dispute this.

There are autistic children and adults, who need protective helmets to minimize self harm, who cannot speak for themselves, cannotcommunicate, whose lives are full of anxiety and fear. They cannot function independantly. They have no awareness of their condition, never mind the ability to lecture the public on their condition.This is a reality.These autistics exist, and they have rights. In these cases it is the perogative and responsibility of their parents to do what they see fit to help their children.

Whether you beleif autism is genetic or caused by mercury poisoning, you cannot deny there are autistic people (adults), whose quality of life and the problems they endure, cannot be compared to the autistics in this video.

As a parent who believes my son is mercury poisoned, the subject of disabilty rights is high on my list, but the human right not to be injected with mercury takes precedence.

This does not devalue or indermine other autistics, I am sick of hearing this.

any mouse;If or when you have children, and if they were profoundly autistic.What would you do?What would you're approach be?How would you help your childs suffering?

Mouse; I looked at your video. Too bad it didn't let us hear all of what Aqualung had to say. While I was there I also watched this onehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fouye8Y4bg&NR This thing was pure propaganda from Aspies for Freedom. It tries to paint people who help autistics as making them feel bad about themselves by suggesting that children who can't talk or cross the street safely should just be left to suffer with brain damage. You are intentionally trying to confuse the issue. Aqualung may not need a cure since he can talk, read, write and, probably can toilet himself although he looks like he could stand delousing. Kids who can't do these things need help. They don't make the holes bigger on a golf course for people who can't putt. Help is available in the form of lessons and practice. The game becomes more enjoyable when you work at it and taste success. Life also becomes more enjoyable when you take positive steps to improve yourself. You aren't recognoizing the fact that more mercury has made the mercury poisoning misdiagnosed as autism much worse than what your functional adults go through. Your saying we should let our children go through life without improving their deficits when we now know how to help them. You are a bunch of sick bastards for pushing this agenda that benefits the drug companies who poisoned our kids. You should talk to adults who have cured themselves. None of them ask to go back to the way they were. None of you have the balls to face your problems and defeat them. You all want to wallow in self pity instead of accepting the challenge of normalcy. This is insane but you would have to be a sane person to understand. You and Aqualung don't qualify in your present states.

Hey Mouse; I can't possibly type all of the words I just wrote in 3 minutes since Jonsmum posted before me. I'm used to having a secretary do my typing so I get by with two fingers while I hunt and peck.

"Whether you beleif autism is genetic or caused by mercury poisoning, you cannot deny there are autistic people (adults), whose quality of life and the problems they endure, cannot be compared to the autistics in this video."

I also cannot deny that there are many neuro-typicals who have pretty miserable lives, too. You seem to be somehow guaging quality of life on success. If your kid grows up to be a married nine to fiver working at the local MacDonalds with two point five kids that might qualify him as "normal" yet it may not guarantee his happiness.

Despite anyone's "disabilities" or choices they may make in their life the way things work is that if people do not toe this illusionary line of normalcy they are labled as different and their powers of self determination is TAKEN FROM THEM by a system which is designed to disenfranchise anyone who steps off that line of normalcy for whatever reason.

What I hate about this site "Hating Autism" is that it's message is just that, that difference in all it's forms is bad and it should be punished. Furthermore John Best uses this blog as his own personal playground to bait and abuse people. If I call him an idiot and a monster he can easily delete my comments, and of course his own, but to intentionally insult and slander people who have autism to the point where they may say something harsh against him so that he can say he is a better person than them is absolutely reprehensible.

As it is with the video, An Empowerment Conference, of which this is only a trailer, it shows a movement of autistic people trying to break free of the stigma which a society full of John Bests imposes upon them. I am planning to contact the filmmakers and buy a copy of the full video.

any mouse;Don't evade the question.Do you deny, or do you acknowlegde.

"There are autistic children and adults, who need protective helmets to minimize self harm, who cannot speak for themselves, cannotcommunicate, whose lives are full of anxiety and fear. They cannot function independantly. They have no awareness of their condition, never mind the ability to lecture the public on their condition.This is a reality."

This is pathetic;"I also cannot deny that there are many neuro-typicals who have pretty miserable lives, too."

And this;"Despite anyone's "disabilities" or choices they may make in their life the way things work is that if people do not toe this illusionary line of normalcy they are labled as different and their powers of self determination is TAKEN FROM THEM by a system which is designed to disenfranchise anyone who steps off that line of normalcy for whatever reason."

any mouse;Stop calling me John, and no I,m not happy with your "rephrase".Are you giong to answer my question or not?

Do you deny, or do you acknowlegde?

"There are autistic children and adults, who need protective helmets to minimize self harm, who cannot speak for themselves, cannotcommunicate, whose lives are full of anxiety and fear. They cannot function independantly. They have no awareness of their condition, never mind the ability to lecture the public on their condition.This is a reality."

"Do you acknowlege or deny that there are neuro-typicals who have to wear protective headgear sometimes to minimize self harm, who cannot speak for themselves, cannot communicate, whose lives are full of anxiety and fear. They cannot function independantly. They have no awareness of their condition, never mind the ability to lecture the public on their condition. This is a reality."

This is a loaded question and it immediately tags a whole group with an extreme condition of disability. It is a question meant to disenfranchise. You would not answer the above. In fact, you never respond positively to anything I have to say so why would I answer your directed questions, John?

What a fucking dung of hippocricy! How old are you anny? Old enough to drive a car?

No matter what the cause of autism is noneone deserves to be left in the back of the trailer because some twisted cracksheads like yourself get a rush from disabled individuals. You should seriously consider seeking a psychatrist. Had it been my call, the neurodiversity chiefs would been locked up at the asylum years ago.

I'm fully aware that you're are not the brightest pencil in the pencilcase, but everyone with an IQ above 80 must be capable of understanding that injecting a neurontoxin in 8-10 pounds babies will cause damage, if not instant then in the long run. Buy a nurse to explain it for you slowly if you need it further down with a spoon.

But nevermind the mercury, your SOB.I do not give fuck wheter autism is caused by cell phones, microwave ovens or fucking snow. It's a horrible disorder, and must be cured for all it's worth. My main problem with the neurodiversity island is not your scientific ignorance, is your disgusting embracment of massive disabilities. Your hardcore psychotic love for people who will never be able to talk, read, write or do simple math is impressively tragic. They can't even wipe their own butt! If you had been smart you would've perhaps even been dangerous. Scums like the Seidels are barrely worth the rope they ought to, and one day will be hanged in.

"There are autistic children and adults, who need protective helmets to minimize self harm, who cannot speak for themselves, cannotcommunicate, whose lives are full of anxiety and fear. They cannot function independantly. They have no awareness of their condition, never mind the ability to lecture the public on their condition.This is a reality."

It's not "a loaded" question.It's a very simple question.

"You would not answer the above"

I asked the above. I stated the above. I pointed out that "this is a reality." Is this an example of your logic?

John Best is one of the worst examples of neuro-typicals. If you are unfamiliar with the term it means "normal" although it is a misnomer, because the reality is that normal does not exist, and at any rate John Best with his extreme hatred can not even claim "normal".

As for answering a question with the lead in "do you acknowledge or deny" and then pins the worst of characteristics on a whole group of people in an attempt to discredit that group I answered why I would NOT answer such a leading question, a question which would be illegal in a court of law. All I can say is "I object your Honor. This person is acting like a prick. Please hold them in contempt."

I believe I have answered you as to why I will not answer your question. I'm too smart for your rather obvious tactics, John.

By the way, John, by creating caracters like "wj" who swear and abuse in the name of defending a quack cure and getting money out of the drug companies you are only discrediting your own camp.

But that is fine. You dont have a leg to stand on anyway. I presented you with an international conference full of well spoken autistic adults and all you can do is throw wj at me to insult and abuse. You are sounding worse and worse. I don't care if your father did beat you as a child. I don't care if the bullies did wail on you in junior high school, that is no excuse for spreading hate literature against autistic people.

"I wouldn't hire Andrews to muck stalls in the stable I used to manage."

Padding your resume again, huh? I don't for a minute believe you were "managing" the stable, but learning to sling horseshit, just as you do here. Maybe you could get a Bsc in that; (Bullshit cleaner). Okay, an Hsc. ;-)

"There are autistic children and adults, who need protective helmets to minimize self harm, who cannot speak for themselves, cannotcommunicate, whose lives are full of anxiety and fear. They cannot function independantly. They have no awareness of their condition, never mind the ability to lecture the public on their condition.This is a reality."

When bigotry is not obvious, an analogy can help.

Do you deny or do you acknowledge?

"There are black people who live in extreme poverty, who commit crime, and end up in jail. Many suffer from sickle-cell anemia. They have a high incidence of HIV. Oh, and they like chicken. This is reality."

any mouse;You've got to be having a laugh!You won't answer my question, because you can't without embarrasing yourself.

If you agree, then you would be contradicting yourself after saying;

"These people and this conference totally discredit all your arguments about brain damage and neurodiversity having no value and that autistic children cannot grow up to be quite capable autistic adults."

To which I replied;"I for one, am not disputing that autistic children cannot grow up to be quite capable autistic adults"

I then went on to point out the fact that;"There are autistic children and adults, who need protective helmets to minimize self harm, who cannot speak for themselves, cannotcommunicate, whose lives are full of anxiety and fear. They cannot function independantly. They have no awareness of their condition, never mind the ability to lecture the public on their condition.This is a reality."

If you disagree with this then you would show your ignorance and/or denial of the fact that there are different severities of autism, which have to be acknowledged as part of the 'whole picture'.

You can,t say, "this is a loaded question", when it is a very simple question.

You can't say, "it immediately tags a whole group with an extreme condition of disability", when it simply points out that there are also autistics that cannot function independantly.

You can't say, "As for answering a question with the lead in "do you acknowledge or deny" and then pins the worst of characteristics on a whole group of people in an attempt to discredit that group"

Let me remind you, we're talking about autistic children and adults.The "worst characteristics" you refer to, are actually the debilitating and incapacitating effects of a serious disability.Have some respect.

You say;

"I believe I have answered you as to why I will not answer your question. I'm too smart for your rather obvious tactics, John."

I believe I have answered why you will not answer my question, and your far from smart if you still think I'm John.

Mouse; "Furthermore John Best uses this blog as his own personal playground to bait and abuse people. If I call him an idiot and a monster he can easily delete my comments, and of course his own, but to intentionally insult and slander people who have autism to the point where they may say something harsh against him so that he can say he is a better person than them is absolutely reprehensible." said the Mouse. You can shove this nonsense. This site isn't about hating any person. It's about hating the fact that our kids were poisoned and now must endure brain damage. The fact that ridiculous, insane, inane and untrue arguments by neurodiversity get blown up here by myself and other sane people is not a poor reflection of any of those sane people if one of your knuckleheads gets caught in the crossfire. If you don't like me calling you all "brain damaged", show me some sanity by discontinuing your practice of telling us we should not do everything humanly possible to help kids who can't function. It was you assholes who started this battle, not us. Every sane person here wants to see all autistics get whatever help they need, especially since we are parents of autistic kids. You(pl) perpetually demonstrate no affinity for rational thought and your deranged opinions will be shot down by whatever means available. We would all be happy to help you but you aren't rational enough to accept the help you need.

John;I assumed from the times on this blog that the UK was eight hours ahead of the whatever state you're in, in the USA.So you're blog is three hours out, and you're five hours behind the UK.That explains a lot.I though you lot were keeping odd hours!So it must be 3PM where you are.

John, you are going to excessive efforts checking times between London and the US and apparently coordinating it so that you and this character you call Jonsmum are writing at practically the same time. The fact that you are posting at the same time proves to me you are the same person. You go on about typing speeds. Fiddle that. You can cut and paste.

At any rate I don't really care. You can play your silly cames. If you are limber enough you can give yourself a b job as well.

Jonsmum; Blogger must be on west coast time. I'm on the East coast. Any Mouse can't come up with any decent arguments so he, she or it has to accuse us of being the same person. Maybe Mouse and Aqualung are really the same person.

The point was, John, that you are a bigot when it comes to autistic people, and by treatening to send your black stepsons to beat Joseph up you are making a racial slur and appear to be a racist also. I am not surprised.

Mouse; Please reread my comment to Joseph and point out the threat. I just challenged Joseph to make his prejudiced statement to some black people. I don't think he has the guts. He is obviously a bigot, just as you are biased against sane and rational people.

Joseph; There was no bigotry in Jonsmum's remarks. It's obvious to any literate person she was not talking about all autistic people but was pointing out those severe cases who you try to deny. Your reply proves you don't have the guts to back up your bigotry. I don't think my stepsons would cross the street to spit on you. Are you a mamber of the Ku Klux Klan?

If you are the parent of a college student, or are one yourself, it's important to know the facts about the meningococcal vaccine, which some colleges are making a requirement for incoming students (there are ways around this, though). First, meningitis affects less than one in 100,000 people in the United States each year, and half of these are in infants. O f those who are infected, most recover fully."

They're prattling on about breastfeeding on Joseph's site.Jumping on the idea of the quality on the mother/child bond.Any excuse to go backwards on the theory of the cause of autism. But vaccines! thimerosal! Don't be rediculous! There's no proof. No evidence.The American government is obsessed with pushing unwarranted vaccinations.Somebody, somewhere, must be getting some serious 'back handers'.

John;Derek and Clive are a 'double act'. They are characters invented by Dudley Moore and Peter Cook (in their earlier days).The link to Mercola didn't work for me first time. I tried it again and it worked! Don't know why but it did.Off shopping now! See you later.