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in reading this, the wording is a tad "off"; it states that: "scES may help contribute to an improvement in quality of life by providing a means of extending the time to catheterization under safe pressures and restoring efficient bladder emptying, ultimately preserving lower and upper urinary tract health."

Is that close but not the same as voluntarily voiding, correct

"That's not smog! It's SMUG!! " - randy marsh, southpark

"what???? , you don't 'all' wear a poop sac?.... DAMNIT BONNIE, YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THE POOP SAC!!!! "

2010 SCINet Clinical Trial Support Squad Member
Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature

in reading this, the wording is a tad "off"; it states that: "scES may help contribute to an improvement in quality of life by providing a means of extending the time to catheterization under safe pressures and restoring efficient bladder emptying, ultimately preserving lower and upper urinary tract health."

Is that close but not the same as voluntarily voiding, correct

I would call the description as improving bladder behavior. (When one could tell that you need to cath due to a full bladder).

Dr. Hubscher's research involves a multidisciplinary approach directed toward (i) understanding the neural mechanisms involved in the control/coordination of male and female urogenital functions, with a current emphasis on bladder, bowel and sexual dysfunction following chronic spinal cord injury and (ii) understanding the central neural mechanisms underlying the development and perpetuation of chronic pain, with an emphasis on spinal cord injury-related pains and pelvic/visceral pain. Translational studies involve experiments being done in parallel using a clinically relevant spinal contusion rodent model and studies of urogenital and bowel function in human research participants with complete or incomplete spinal cord injuries. Combinations of electrophysiological, behavioral, immunohistochemical and neuroanatomical techniques are being used in Dr. Hubscher's animal laboratory.

Effects of activity dependent plasticity on recovery of bladder and sexual function after spinal cord injury: Locomotor training, facilitated by a treadmill, trained therapists, and a harness system in order to provide graded body weight support has shown a range of benefits in both human and animal models after spinal cord injury (SCI). Parallel human and animal studies are underway to assess the impact of step training on non-locomotor functions, specifically bladder, bowel and sexual function. The goal of our current animal studies is to quantify step training induced changes in urodynamic function following SCI and determine if benefits are due to lumbosacral circuitry activation or exercise/metabolic stimulation. EMG recordings are being used to examine interactions between the urinary bladder circuitry and the hind limb. Also, since both exercise and activity dependent tasks are highly influential on a family of molecules called neurotrophic factors, we are examining whether functional urodynamic improvements with training are related to changes in neurotrophin levels in the bladder. Likewise, our experimental studies using human subjects with a SCI focuses on the mechanisms involved in the reorganization of spinal cord circuits for bladder and sexual function with activity-dependent plasticity induced by locomotor training and/or epidural stimulation.

A couple general comments on this thread -
1. The Harkema lab has collaborated with others at the University of Louisville to objectively measure changes in bladder function after both locomotor training, and epidural stimulation. No papers have been published to my knowledge, but there have been poster presentations at different conferences on the subject, including these two I saw at the Society for Neuroscience conference in 2016, where they did full-blown urodynamic exams on people with complete SCI:http://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/i...sentation/2813http://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/i...entation/29965

The 2017 Society for Neuroscience meeting is just around the corner. You can search for abstracts by keyword like "bladder" or "spinal cord injury" here:http://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/#!/4376
Any keyword you search for will likely come up with thousands of results, so make sure to narrow your search by using the "Session type" tab on the left side of the screen. Alternatively, you can search for presentations and posters by author.

2. It is no surprise it has taken years of training for someone with an SCI to re-gain voluntary function, however insignificant it may seem. Humans are born with very immature nervous systems - think of how many years it takes a baby to eventually learn to walk and control their own bowels and bladders. After a spinal cord injury, you lose neural tissue, and then the nervous system re-organizes, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse - either way, you basically have a new nervous system that you're starting from scratch with. If you want to re-gain bladder control and the ability to control movement, it is going to take at least as long as it takes a child to master those behaviors. The fact that any kind of voluntary function was regained at all, on any timeline, without replacing cells lost to injury in the spinal cord, is pretty amazing. I appreciate that some people think this function may be meaningless for real-world scenarios, but the science is nothing short of groundbreaking, and it shows us that we're moving in the right direction.

3. Dustin Shillcox has also shown how he incorporates using the epidural stim into his every day life (you have to sit through some inspiration porn to see that in this video):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glDN7P0IkmQ

TOMSONITE;;
"I appreciate that some people think this function may be meaningless for real-world scenarios, but the science is nothing short of groundbreaking, and it shows us that we're moving in the right direction."

SORRY, those ungrateful indignant sci expecting some semblance of normalcy

TOMSONITE;;
"I appreciate that some people think this function may be meaningless for real-world scenarios, but the science is nothing short of groundbreaking, and it shows us that we're moving in the right direction."

SORRY, those ungrateful indignant sci expecting some semblance of normalcy

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear with what I was trying to say.

The first time the Wright brothers successfully flew an airplane, the flight lasted 10 seconds and reached a maximum height of 8 feet off the ground. Should they have given up then, due to a flight like that having zero application for the real world? Or are we all glad they kept going, and they and others developed that idea?

Again, I understand that just being able to kick your legs around and/or having limited ability to stand does not give one a sense of normalcy. But like it or not, from a sheer scientific perspective, these results are groundbreaking. Voluntary function of any amount has never been restored this far out of a complete, chronic spinal cord injury.

Do you believe, based on the results of this last paper, this whole line of research should be shut down and abandoned?

The first time the Wright brothers successfully flew an airplane, the flight lasted 10 seconds and reached a maximum height of 8 feet off the ground. Should they have given up then, due to a flight like that having zero application for the real world? Or are we all glad they kept going, and they and others developed that idea?

Again, I understand that just being able to kick your legs around and/or having limited ability to stand does not give one a sense of normalcy. But like it or not, from a sheer scientific perspective, these results are groundbreaking. Voluntary function of any amount has never been restored this far out of a complete, chronic spinal cord injury.

Do you believe, based on the results of this last paper, this whole line of research should be shut down and abandoned?

Valid

"That's not smog! It's SMUG!! " - randy marsh, southpark

"what???? , you don't 'all' wear a poop sac?.... DAMNIT BONNIE, YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THE POOP SAC!!!! "

2010 SCINet Clinical Trial Support Squad Member
Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature