Of the 18 penalties called on the Green Bay Packers during Sunday's 17-3 loss to the Detroit Lions, cornerback Ahmad Carroll committed four by himself.

Some of the referee's calls may have been dubious, but the miscues led Carroll to insist on a heart-to-heart meeting with head coach Mike Sherman on Monday. During the morning chat, the second-year cornerback apologized for his four penalties.

"I wanted to let him know that it wasn't falling on deaf ears about the penalties I was getting, Carroll said. "He made it clear that we can't have anyone out there getting penalties. That's going to hurt the team."

Sherman, who considered benching Carroll during Sunday's game, will announce the starters on Wednesday. The former first-round draft pick knows he will have to avoid those penalties to keep his job.

The play of Joey Thomas has intensified the competition. The starting cornerback headed into training camp, he was sidelined by calf and hip injuries for three weeks of practice. As the nickel cornerback, he played effectively, registering two tackles and two passes defended against the Lions.

Thomas hopes his effort on Sunday earned him a starting role.

"Who wouldn't want to be the number one guy?" Thomas said. "Regardless of what my role is, I'm going to make the most of it."

Carroll committed 11 accepted penalties last year and has earned a reputation because of that history. He and Sherman acknowledged that opposing coaches likely tell the referees before the game to watch Carroll closely.

"They're aware of it," Sherman said.

Although Sherman said there is no excuse for the number of penalties Carroll racked up, he deemed some of the calls as questionable.

"They were ticky tack," he said. "I see Al Harris do the same things and not get called. I see him [Carroll] do the things and get called."

Carroll must tread a fine line. The new Packers defense calls for aggressive corners to jam receivers off the line and impede their progress. Carroll will have to avoid holding receivers while remaining physical.

"We play bump and run," he said. "If I go out there and say -- 'I can't touch him. I can't do this.' -- I'm not going to get the job done."

Despite the penalties, Carroll said the coaching staff gave him a strong grade for the game. He held Lions wide receiver Charles Rogers to one catch for 31 yards.

"Besides the penalties I had a very good game against a very good receiver," he said.

The coaching staff worked tirelessly with Carroll during the offseason to improve his footwork and teach him to use his hands less.

Carroll did cite the lack of pass interference penalties, the kind which plagued him last year, as a silver lining. Sunday's infractions against Carroll included one holding penalty and three illegal use of the hands.

"It's something easy to clean up," he said.

But as Sherman let him know, Carroll better clean it up and fast.

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Now, I know this is from the Team's web site and it is usually considered hype to some extent... The Team does have to keep the spirit of the faithful up above water.. that's the web site's job....

But, ya gotta give due where it's been earned... Holding Charlie Roger to 31 yards is prett damned amazing and interests me a great deal...

Now, let's see what he does about gettin' the Refs off his back with their "over-attentiveness" to his presence (?) - Like we saw during the game - the Detroit guys were doing exactly the same thing.... and so was AL HARRIS.. yet the Refs singled Batman II out of the lineup for what we know would end up as an easy day for them (the Refs) out there earnin' their paycheck.... They have meetings before and after the games, too! And they get quizzed on their performances, as well.

Sorta like Cops - "Uh, how many tickets did you write today, Herman Munster?"

But, ya gotta give due where it's been earned... Holding Charlie Roger to 31 yards is prett damned amazing and interests me a great deal...

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this is why i go with the minority, saying don't give up on ahmad caroll yet, there is an amazing talent with him, but not NFL cornerback talent...yet, i want him yanked from the starting lineup, but there's potential, all is not lost yet

The thing that bothers me. Carroll says he isn't bothered by being removed because he was given a high grade for his performance. That sounds to me like a player who is complacent for finishing second. I think I just misused that word too.

There is no reason to cutthe guy, but EVERY reason to sit the guy. He is loaded with talent that will be fully realized in the not-so-distant future, IMHO. He just cannot be trusted right now, considering his bad rap and the league-wide clampdown on D-Backs.

tromadz I disagree. He committed penalties on plays where Joey was not even looking to his side of the field. These were not pass interference calls, but rather were three hands to the face calls, none of which really affected the WRs route, and a holding call where Joey threw to the opposite side of the field. Ahmad had pretty good coveraged, he just hit Detroit's WRs in the facemask drawing flags.

I really believe Carroll should not be benched. Blast me all you want I really believe this. He has all the talent in the world and it showed in that game but also what showed was he's holding and grabbing problem. He held Charles Rogers, who has the potential to become one of the best wide outs in the game, to 1 catch. If it were not for stupid penalties like the ones he had sunday you would not be hearing all this stuff. So I say let him start one more game, if he gets 1 more penalty then bench him.

I really believe Carroll should not be benched. Blast me all you want I really believe this. He has all the talent in the world and it showed in that game but also what showed was he's holding and grabbing problem. He held Charles Rogers, who has the potential to become one of the best wide outs in the game, to 1 catch. If it were not for stupid penalties like the ones he had sunday you would not be hearing all this stuff. So I say let him start one more game, if he gets 1 more penalty then bench him.

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I think its best to bench him just for the mere fact that it will get him out of the spotlight for a few games. He'll see plenty of action as the nickelback--which actually bodes well for him cause of his speed. He'll be able to cover some serious ground.

Plus, with Thomas' injury history, Batman 2 will be back as a starter in no time.

so ahmad is excused cuz joey wasnt looking at his side...on every play....wow...cmon...

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That's not even remotely what I said and you know that. Your post said that without Carroll's penalties he would have been burned for 5 catches and 120 yards. My point was simply that the penalties did not prevent Lions' completions. In fact, Carroll's penalties, which probably makes it even more frustrating, came on plays where either his receiver was not one of the primary options or where the guy he was covering was not open. These were not pass interference penalties where he interfered with a guy going up to catch a pass.

I think its best to bench him just for the mere fact that it will get him out of the spotlight for a few games. He'll see plenty of action as the nickelback--which actually bodes well for him cause of his speed. He'll be able to cover some serious ground.

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I agree, actually that is one of the reasons I was hoping they would not start him this last week. He has had the off season to get out of the refs minds. They could have "snuck" him in at opportune times. I think they should still do that. And when he does get in, he has to really work at not getting a penalty. After a couple or a few penalty free plays get him back out and let the refs "forget" about him again for a while.

Rogers told the Detroit Free Press after the game, "I think if you get into his head a little bit, he gets a little frustrated. That's our scouting report. We scouted them real good and I think that's what gave us the chance to even make the plays."

Rogers pretty much said that they made offensive plays because of Carroll. Guys do what they can to make plays. If someone is a 3rd,4th option on a play, they dont give up on it. They run their route, mess with the defender, try to EGG him into a penalty, and clearly thats what happened here. Carroll sucks,sucked, and I cant see him not sucking anytime soon.