Welcome to the Piano World Piano ForumsOver 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

And for the piano consumer, even locating and hiring a competent, unaffiliated, independent-minded technician to evaluate a possible new piano for purchase is a bit of an issue.

I have no agenda whatsoever if OP buys a Chinese piano or not, be it Essex, Yamaha, Kawai Perzina, Ritmuller or whatever.

If like in our city of Vancouver B.C. the prejudice against Chinese pianos is so much among local technicians simply because they have seen only the worst of those brought in by the competion [on purpose?] hauling in a tech in could also be of no great help.

Those who can actually play and make up their own mind, are my own favourite species. And those buy all kinds of pianos.

Like the teacher who recently visited with her student virtually shouting at me she "would never recommend a Chinese piano" - and then bought one herself.

Meantime ask your local dealer for the "certificate of origin" where the fine piano you are admiring on his floor may actually originate from.

I was once regulating piano in a piano store in Hong Kong. A customer came by and asked me for my opinions on inexpensive and non-Chinese made pianos in the store. I tried out two pre-owned pianos: one was German and the other one was British. I played the same piece of music on both pianos, and found that they both were out of tune and out of regulation. I told the customer that they are playable but will need some works, and asked which tone he likes better. He said he has no idea, but just doesn't want to get a Chinese one. There were quite a number of Chinese pianos with similar price range to that German and British in the store. But he didn't listen, or even look at any one of them. I explained to him that there are many German-Chinese and Japanese-Chinese semi-finished pianos and German designed, or Japanese designed, Chinese pianos with good quality and a rather "affordable" price. But he just didn't want to get something Chinese-related. Well, being a Chinese, sometimes I really have to think twice, or more, when I am deciding to buy things that are made in China too. Because I have experiences getting stuffs from China that didn't last long or even didn't work, and read many news regarding the quality and safety issues of Chinese products. It is the image of "Chinese-made" and our experience with Chinese made products that make it hard to believe that Chinese is capable of making quality products. Globalization brings skills and knowledge, as well as opportunities in the manufacturing industry in China. It won't take long to for Chinese to learn and make quality products, but may take decades to convince others that quality products can be made in China.

Those who can actually play and make up their own mind, are my own favourite species. And those buy all kinds of pianos.Norbert

Those who are confident in their own ears and fingers are fortunate in many ways, but may still make inquires into the build quality of a piano. Their concern in doing so is based on the long-term prognosis, not in how the thing sounds or even plays at that moment in time.

I think that is the nature of the OP's inquiry. He's not dead-set against buying Chinese. He's not at all like the typical Chinese consumer that KC Ng describes. The choices he mentions are all Chinese. I doubt if he's even considering the possibility of one of those pianos falling apart. It's more about the piano's ability to maintain its level of playing quality over the years after purchase. This is a normal concern that is not exclusive to Chiense pianos.

It seems likely that those of us in the West can't really give him all that much specific guidance due to the confusing fallboard names and even model numbers in use in China today, although I thought Russell gave him some very good and very pertinent advice. Whether you've been to China or not, I'm sure you're aware that many cheapo made-in-China pianos are for sale there that their manufacturers would not dare send here. It does seem however that if the OP can find a piano from Perzina, Parsons, or Hailun that is exported for sale in the West, and he likes it well enough to choose it, it should need only normal maintenance.

If the tech community in Vancouver is poisoned against Chinese pianos, that's unfortunate. That's not the case where I live. Then again, we don't get that many teachers rushing into shops demanding to buy un-Chinese and leaving the shop exhilirated about the Chinese piano they just bought.

I can say in all honesty that this was the perhaps finest piano we have ever sold.

Together with Estonia, these pianos elicit an entirely different, much deeper & profound response from owners than those just being "happy" with their newly bought Chinese or whatever other oriental pianos.

It was an experience to see a fully grown man, piano teacher and tough ex-policeman literally touched to tears having realized a lifelong dream. Even we we stunned.

Thanks for the invitation to dinner after, a pleasure to celebrate together! [next on us of course... ]

Perhaps it's time to rethink our business model, leave the endless bickering about Oriental pianos to others and move exclusively to those which really seem to make a difference.

If like in our city of Vancouver B.C. the prejudice against Chinese pianos is so much among local technicians simply because they have seen only the worst of those brought in by the competion [on purpose?] hauling in a tech in could also be of no great help.Norbert

The overgeneralization, labelling all local technicians here in Vancouver as suffering from discrimination against Chinese instrument is a bit inflammatory.

Indicating all Vancouver technicians suffer from this malady is of no great help in itself. How exactly would you like me to view this statement Norbert? I was under the impression that I have offered considerable assistance with your products, both in sales and support.

Originally Posted By: turandot

If the tech community in Vancouver is poisoned against Chinese pianos, that's unfortunate.

The tech community is a poisoned atmosphere in Vancouver for sure but the reason is not because of Chinese instruments; more a concerted effort to ostracize the independent technician and dealer along with who sells successfully the lines of higher quality Chinese instruments.

This was proven out when a gathering to show Hailun was boycotted intentionally several years back.

But I was recently told by one prominent PTG member who is in contact with a lot of others here that the only reason why few techs in this city take interest in Brodmann, Hailun or Ritmueller pianos, is because "they are Chinese"

Hoping this doesn't include the majority of their customers these days...

But I was recently told by one prominent PTG member who is in contact with a lot of others here that the only reason why few techs in this city take interest in Brodmann, Hailun or Ritmueller pianos, is because "they are Chinese"

Hoping this doesn't include the majority of their customers these days...

Norbert

I have also been made aware of the way Chinese pianos are viewed locally. Some of this, in part, could be because of the Chinese instruments that landed here in the early nineties.

But the same could be stated about the Korean instruments in the early eighties, or the Japanese instruments of the late fifties and early sixties. A lot of resistance was evident upon the realization of those instruments landing on our docks and being sold in the marketplace.

I suppose we could say that misogyny is found in a lot of places these days including Vancouver.

I have no idea what the majority of their customers’ view is because I have distanced myself from most of the technicians locally.

I tune and repair pianos. Where they are manufactured, by whom, and who owns them is of little consequence in my shop.

Reading this post makes me curious about Perzina so I went to the Perzina distributor for the US and tried all 3 Perzina grands. I really like the sound and the look of it. To my ear, it sounds like a more expensive European piano. If I were shopping for Kawai RX vs Perzina, I would definitely give Perzina pianos serious consideration because they seem to be just as good, if not better and at much better price.

Only problem I have with Perzina is their grands don't have much of a track record and they are made in China...image problems. But hey, Iphones, Ipads, Ipods, are all made in China and the world loves them enough to make Apple the largest company in the US.

I also feel that the quality of a good piano is in the design and the components. Yes, I read that this is only the tip of the iceberg, but common....the modern piano is not a high tech instrument. It has been around for decades with only a few tweaks here and there. If you have good workers who are well trained, what's so hard about putting the parts together? It's not rocket science. Common sense tells me that fear of German design pianos with German parts assembled in China is probably blown out of proportion by the competitors.

This is my opinion and I'm not a professional pianist. I would say consumers like me are the majority of piano shoppers today. Traditional companies are taking notes and that's why Steinway have Essex.

chen, we have kx series that the distributor said is coming from hsinghai. so it means that since july kx is no longer produce by hsinghai but parson or if kawai decided to manufacture the kx in their indonesia plant now instead?

No longer built by Beijing,I thought there have 3 reasons,1,product's quality is not good enough,some Processing in detail not well,2,Beijing Xinghai's own problem on management,3,You know ,my pal,Business is war,and in china,there is and old proverb，“there can not accommodate two tigers in one mountain",so,Beijing Xinghai is a loser,just that,one has to adapt to survive

and turandot,a Kawai employee working inside the Pasons production,I am employee working in Parson's Music,thanks

Sorry Chen. Since you've always posted the Kawai logo with your name, I assumed Kawai was paying your salary. Are there Japanese Kawai people in house supervising production of their orders?

Norbert,

That was is a magical recording to be sure. I've heard of phantom mics, bu my goodness -- phantom recording! No evidence of any recording equipment or wires anywhere in the space. Astounding!

Also hard to miss the sheer force exerted by that Brodmann piano on the player. I've read the expression "blown away by a piano" many times on PW, but until your video link, I really didn't know what it meant.

That was is a magical recording to be sure. I've heard of phantom mics, bu my goodness -- phantom recording! No evidence of any recording equipment or wires anywhere in the space. Astounding!

Also hard to miss the sheer force exerted by that Brodmann piano on the player. I've read the expression "blown away by a piano" many times on PW, but until your video link, I really didn't know what it meant.

That was is a magical recording to be sure. I've heard of phantom mics, bu my goodness -- phantom recording! No evidence of any recording equipment or wires anywhere in the space. Astounding!

Also hard to miss the sheer force exerted by that Brodmann piano on the player. I've read the expression "blown away by a piano" many times on PW, but until your video link, I really didn't know what it meant.

* audio has been pre-recorded in the studio on a different piano than the one used in this video

hmm, schwammerl.

Luc,

I was aware, but thought it best to be playful about it (having just recently been through an ugly thread where a Hamburg Steinway filled in for a Cunningham for two weeks before the retailer who posted the clip supplied the details.) I didn't want to be perceived as a wet blanket.

In all honesty though, if a retailer for a brand posts a video clip that presents a brand he sells through the audio presence of another brand, I think he is skating on thin ice in terms of fraud. Obviously, this video was not cheap to make. Production values are way too high. Someone paid for it, and I doubt that that someone was Fedorova. My guess is that she was paid for her services by the same party that paid for the total production.

The piano biz has enough ethics problems as it is without getting involved in this sort of stuff. Although Brodmann pianos had no bearing on the OP's question, I'll just assume that Norbert didn't know what was going on in this clip when he posted it.