Also I want to point out that if Casey can channel our athleticism into productive defense, we can be great defensievly.

Assuming JV can guard his position as he grows, this will be the first time since Vince that we have a team with a PG, SF and C that can potentially guard their positions. instead of having to game plan to compensate for Jose or Barg's poor defense, we can focus on actually putting pressure on the other teams defensively....

You think there's enough time to make the playoffs?? (ok now I'm going crazy....)

That is what I've been thinking about of late.

Raps D started ridiculously soft, went to pretty good, and now it is porous again. As Jack said last night, 28th in the league in oppFG% after top 10 last year.

If you can't be the man on Lakers (Nash/Kobe/Howard) Clippers (Paul/Griffin) Heat (some guy named Lebron??) Knicks (some guy named Melo) Nets (Williams/Joe J) Rockets (Lin/Harden/Asik) Bulls (Rose/Deng/Boozer/Noah) why wouldn't you stay in Toronto and get paid to be the man?

If you can't be the man on Lakers (Nash/Kobe/Howard) Clippers (Paul/Griffin) Heat (some guy named Lebron??) Knicks (some guy named Melo) Nets (Williams/Joe J) Rockets (Lin/Harden/Asik) Bulls (Rose/Deng/Boozer/Noah) why wouldn't you stay in Toronto and get paid to be the man?

Agreed. Even Bosh stayed with us for 7 years (roughly, not sure of the exact number). And VC for 7 I believe also

"I don't care the hot chick gave me her digits. I'm not calling or texting. I am pretty dull and boring so she won't like me."

And then there is the dejected Raptors' fan theme song:

No actually it has more to do with winning. I don't see this pairing resulting in a huge influx of wins for this team and thus makes these guys a flight risk. This was a save my job move by BC. But please continue on with your #condescendingforumposter campaign.

No actually it has more to do with winning. I don't see this pairing resulting in a huge influx of wins for this team and thus makes these guys a flight risk. This was a save my job move by BC. But please continue on with your #condescendingforumposter campaign.

No, it actually has a lot more to do with the fact that you're automatically assuming the worst, immediately writing off the possibility that this team MIGHT be able to coalesce before the players are given a chance to fail.

You might be right, you might be wrong, why not wait and see, who knows, maybe the hot chick will think you're something special eh?

No actually it has more to do with winning. I don't see this pairing resulting in a huge influx of wins for this team and thus makes these guys a flight risk. This was a save my job move by BC. But please continue on with your #condescendingforumposter campaign.

This was a move BC has been looking to do for 4 years after not drafting him 7 years ago. Calderon was never coming back. ED is a promising prospect who is routinely lit up by the opposition. This is a great case of selling high and buying low - cliche but true.

The true tell on BC will be what comes next.

Regarding your hashtag, will do when people continue to whine about players signing or resigning here. It is pathetic. Toronto is a great city with a great fan base and new ownership that appears to be willing to pony up. As long as Toronto keeps losing, no one will sign here. As long as the Raptors are devoid of talent, they will continue to lose. At some point you have to take a swing when talent presents itself or continue to live in the vicious cycle.

No, it actually has a lot more to do with the fact that you're automatically assuming the worst, immediately writing off the possibility that this team MIGHT be able to coalesce before the players are given a chance to fail.

You might be right, you might be wrong, why not wait and see, who knows, maybe the hot chick will think you're something special eh?

I agree. I would also given Colangelo a chance to see what he does between now and the deadline. In the last 2 years he appears to be batting around .500 which is much better than the previous .034.

I don't think the Gay trade can be judged until we see what comes next. And I certainly don't think it is sane to be talking about Lowry and Gay leaving when Lowry has another year on his contract at the Raps choice and Gay has 2 with final year at his choice and he has not even played a freaking game.

No, it actually has a lot more to do with the fact that you're automatically assuming the worst, immediately writing off the possibility that this team MIGHT be able to coalesce before the players are given a chance to fail.

You might be right, you might be wrong, why not wait and see, who knows, maybe the hot chick will think you're something special eh?

So why discuss anything on a message board. Why even have a message board. You cant just mute the people who are against something and turn up the people who are for something because you happen to also be for something. My opinion is that this deal will not end up providing us any further wins due to the parties involved. I dont trust Lowry as far as he can throw himself down the court and Rudy Gay I feel is not the answer. Deal with it.

This was a move BC has been looking to do for 4 years after not drafting him 7 years ago. Calderon was never coming back. ED is a promising prospect who is routinely lit up by the opposition. This is a great case of selling high and buying low - cliche but true.

The true tell on BC will be what comes next.

Regarding your hashtag, will do when people continue to whine about players signing or resigning here. It is pathetic. Toronto is a great city with a great fan base and new ownership that appears to be willing to pony up. As long as Toronto keeps losing, no one will sign here. As long as the Raptors are devoid of talent, they will continue to lose. At some point you have to take a swing when talent presents itself or continue to live in the vicious cycle.

It is common for people who live on message boards to become very condescending towards other posters. You are there.

I agree. I would also given Colangelo a chance to see what he does between now and the deadline. In the last 2 years he appears to be batting around .500 which is much better than the previous .034.

I don't think the Gay trade can be judged until we see what comes next. And I certainly don't think it is sane to be talking about Lowry and Gay leaving when Lowry has another year on his contract at the Raps choice and Gay has 2 with final year at his choice and he has not even played a freaking game.

Look a proper argument. Rather than a bunch of condescending bullshit. If you would have posted this in the first place we have no issue.

It is common for people who live on message boards to become very condescending towards other posters. You are there.

Sorry, Pill.... just condescending towards you. I do apologize but I find your replies of late about "control" condescending as well. I gave my opinion on the previous 3 non-calls as something the Raptors have to live with because they put themselves in that position. It is my opinion that the call versus ATL was bogus because it was just so damn blatant. So clearly you found my original opinion at odds with your own and you have taken every opportunity to throw it back at me over the last week or so. No, that is not condescending at all. Then you defend your own opinion with post #53 while not granting me the same opportunity and then follow it up with post #54. Nice work. Very impressive. Condescending 101 is dismissed.

This was a move BC has been looking to do for 4 years after not drafting him 7 years ago. Calderon was never coming back. ED is a promising prospect who is routinely lit up by the opposition. This is a great case of selling high and buying low - cliche but true.

The true tell on BC will be what comes next.

Regarding your hashtag, will do when people continue to whine about players signing or resigning here. It is pathetic. Toronto is a great city with a great fan base and new ownership that appears to be willing to pony up. As long as Toronto keeps losing, no one will sign here. As long as the Raptors are devoid of talent, they will continue to lose. At some point you have to take a swing when talent presents itself or continue to live in the vicious cycle.

Surely you can understand someone taking the pessimistic view here? It has 17 years of history backing it up. But history aside, this move just smells bad. It's not even about the players we gave up so much as the direction it puts us in.
This team needed 1-2 more years of acquiring young assets before trying to make a move like this.
Colangelo pulled the trigger too soon and there are not enough pieces left to bring in another impact player.
This one trade has already eliminated any depth advantage we might have had. Our front court now consists of Amir and whatever scraps we can get for Bargnani. We have no backup point guard and our starter is injury prone.
Our only trading chips left are Ross and JV. If we assume they're untouchable, then the Raptors are certainly expecting a lot of development out of those two. Oh, and they have to do it pretty fast too if there is any hope of keeping the present core intact. I really hope it does work out that way, but my gut, and 17 years of history, tell me otherwise.

Surely you can understand someone taking the pessimistic view here? It has 17 years of history backing it up. But history aside, this move just smells bad. It's not even about the players we gave up so much as the direction it puts us in.
This team needed 1-2 more years of acquiring young assets before trying to make a move like this.
Colangelo pulled the trigger too soon and there are not enough pieces left to bring in another impact player.
This one trade has already eliminated any depth advantage we might have had. Our front court now consists of Amir and whatever scraps we can get for Bargnani. We have no backup point guard and our starter is injury prone.
Our only trading chips left are Ross and JV. If we assume they're untouchable, then the Raptors are certainly expecting a lot of development out of those two. Oh, and they have to do it pretty fast too if there is any hope of keeping the present core intact. I really hope it does work out that way, but my gut, and 17 years of history, tell me otherwise.

I am truly on the fence with this trade with regards to this franchise.

I could argue the positive and I could argue the negative.... and I think I've done both on these forums.

It will truly depend on what comes next to get my opinion.

Some things I would point out are:

1) the Raptors have a upper tier SF for the first time..... in a very long time. A glaring hole has finally been addressed.
2) the Raptors "core" has no one currently over 26. They are lined up to have the guys currently entering their prime to be exiting their prime as the young guys enter their prime (if that makes sense).
3) barring injury, my opinion is this team is a playoff team. The question becomes how far can they go assuming things work out for the best?
4) The Raptors have their top 2 prospects still on the team after the trade.
5) With no draft pick this year (most likely) and sad trade assets, how were the Raps to acquire young assets? Calderon was the most valuable and he could only get a washed up prospect and an aging former champion. I was all about dump your shit for prospects and picks but maybe that wasn't an option and just staying with what the Raptors had was a losing proposition.
6) DeRozan is a trade asset you left out. If DD and AB are traded, I'd much rather pay Gay $18M than those two $19.5M.
7) The Raptors front court has a rookie showing promise in Acy as an energy 12 minute guy and JV coming back from injury. In my opinion, it is not much thinner than before w/ ED and JV out. Also, and this comes back to what is coming next, some wings and Bargnani need to go to get that starting PF that is now needed (Amir is a great backup).

What comes next is crucial and the franchise is never going to advance dwelling on the last 17 years, in my opinion.

Surely you can understand someone taking the pessimistic view here? It has 17 years of history backing it up. But history aside, this move just smells bad. It's not even about the players we gave up so much as the direction it puts us in.
This team needed 1-2 more years of acquiring young assets before trying to make a move like this.
Colangelo pulled the trigger too soon and there are not enough pieces left to bring in another impact player.
This one trade has already eliminated any depth advantage we might have had. Our front court now consists of Amir and whatever scraps we can get for Bargnani. We have no backup point guard and our starter is injury prone.
Our only trading chips left are Ross and JV. If we assume they're untouchable, then the Raptors are certainly expecting a lot of development out of those two. Oh, and they have to do it pretty fast too if there is any hope of keeping the present core intact. I really hope it does work out that way, but my gut, and 17 years of history, tell me otherwise.

I agree 100% with your point... How can u not? But at the end of the day...why not be positive?? Ultimately, Matt is right. The jury is out. We can get lucky. We had probably dozens of chances to win at the buzzer that we missed when derozan took that shot in Orlando...no one ever would have predicted it would go in and it did

Even tho we've failed so many years...it just needs to work once and we can take a step..... Maybe this is that time