Industrial Helix wrote:Ditch the army circles... they make it exceptionally ugly.

I have a problem with the USA and landing craft in North Vietnam because landings didn't happen. The USA's military actions in the north were generally limited to air strikes, making North Vietnam the most heavily bombed country in the history of war.

oh, operation 34a did happen, it was covert and it was landing south vietnamese commandoes it didnt really mention american troops landing though it was coordinated by them. it just wasnt a big deal since it wasnt landings like say d-day, they would have been at night and only small amounts of troops at a time to attack small targets like bridges and stuff.

Well yeah, it may have happened but it was not a large scale thing, which is what this map is proposing it is. When players play this game, they're going to be invading the north in droves and that is totally contrary the American part of the vietnam war.

Victor Sullivan wrote:A few things for this update:1. You still need to have the same color font for all territory names, so to make it easier to look at from afar and easier to read up close (the grey in North Central Coast is extremely hard to read).2. I don't understand the one-ways in Ho Chi Minh Trail. They make that bonus area rather overpowered (though the small +2 bonus does a decent job to balance this)3. I had trouble finding Hanoi and Saigon. You should highlight those more since they yield a +2 bonus.4. The Operation 34a territories aren't purple, but it's purple in the legend...?5. Good job with the Mekong River Delta close-up

-Sully

im afraid same colours fonts would make some bits hard to read, i mean dark on dark or light on light isnt very good thats what i had before kind of. different colours also helps to distinguish between regions. i could use some more opinions on this.

Just make HMCT lighter and use black or you could make Red River Delta and Northeast a tad darker and use white

kengyin wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:A few things for this update:1. You still need to have the same color font for all territory names, so to make it easier to look at from afar and easier to read up close (the grey in North Central Coast is extremely hard to read).2. I don't understand the one-ways in Ho Chi Minh Trail. They make that bonus area rather overpowered (though the small +2 bonus does a decent job to balance this)3. I had trouble finding Hanoi and Saigon. You should highlight those more since they yield a +2 bonus.4. The Operation 34a territories aren't purple, but it's purple in the legend...?5. Good job with the Mekong River Delta close-up

-Sully

yup, i will probably make them brighter, you are talking about on the legend right? or on the map as well?

I meant in the map. Maybe try making them a nice, bright color (you still need to desaturate your colors more, anyway) to make them more easily spotted.

Industrial Helix wrote:Ditch the army circles... they make it exceptionally ugly.

I have a problem with the USA and landing craft in North Vietnam because landings didn't happen. The USA's military actions in the north were generally limited to air strikes, making North Vietnam the most heavily bombed country in the history of war.

oh, operation 34a did happen, it was covert and it was landing south vietnamese commandoes it didnt really mention american troops landing though it was coordinated by them. it just wasnt a big deal since it wasnt landings like say d-day, they would have been at night and only small amounts of troops at a time to attack small targets like bridges and stuff.

Well yeah, it may have happened but it was not a large scale thing, which is what this map is proposing it is. When players play this game, they're going to be invading the north in droves and that is totally contrary the American part of the vietnam war.

dont some maps deviate from reality for the sake of gameplay also? whether it be geographically or politically or whatever many maps adjust the real life situation so that the gameplay is enhanced right? i mean this is for CC not a history lesson. for example in the western front map italy is included though western front generally refers to the sweep through france and belgium into germany, the campaign through north africa and italy was started long before d-day and not really western front. is that not the same reasoning?

Victor Sullivan wrote:

kengyin wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:A few things for this update:1. You still need to have the same color font for all territory names, so to make it easier to look at from afar and easier to read up close (the grey in North Central Coast is extremely hard to read).2. I don't understand the one-ways in Ho Chi Minh Trail. They make that bonus area rather overpowered (though the small +2 bonus does a decent job to balance this)3. I had trouble finding Hanoi and Saigon. You should highlight those more since they yield a +2 bonus.4. The Operation 34a territories aren't purple, but it's purple in the legend...?5. Good job with the Mekong River Delta close-up

-Sully

im afraid same colours fonts would make some bits hard to read, i mean dark on dark or light on light isnt very good thats what i had before kind of. different colours also helps to distinguish between regions. i could use some more opinions on this.

Just make HMCT lighter and use black or you could make Red River Delta and Northeast a tad darker and use white

kengyin wrote:

Victor Sullivan wrote:A few things for this update:1. You still need to have the same color font for all territory names, so to make it easier to look at from afar and easier to read up close (the grey in North Central Coast is extremely hard to read).2. I don't understand the one-ways in Ho Chi Minh Trail. They make that bonus area rather overpowered (though the small +2 bonus does a decent job to balance this)3. I had trouble finding Hanoi and Saigon. You should highlight those more since they yield a +2 bonus.4. The Operation 34a territories aren't purple, but it's purple in the legend...?5. Good job with the Mekong River Delta close-up

-Sully

yup, i will probably make them brighter, you are talking about on the legend right? or on the map as well?

I meant in the map. Maybe try making them a nice, bright color (you still need to desaturate your colors more, anyway) to make them more easily spotted.

-Sully like you mean it

i will make a new version with black fonts all around and compare them side by side

yellow would probably be suitable or maybe just blue on red and red on blue as with the legend hanoi and saigon text

im going to start a poll about this, so far 2 people think all one colour and 1 person (me) think separate colours. the one with at least 10% more than the other will go through, if less then i will make the final decision (unless the majority of voters for the other option are more experienced and thus unofficially have more weighting).

Yes it is. JPG always loses some quality, while PNG is a lossless format. PNG files tend to be a bit larger though... you can use Optipng to optimize the file but they'll still be a bit larger than JPG.

porkenbeans wrote:The carpet bombing of Hanoi was a huge controversy at the time, and I think that it should be included somehow.

hmmmm yes i kind of thought about that but then gameplay wise the north vietnamese regions would be more concentrated with attacks and much harder to hold than south regions and would also graphically look very unbalanced. or is that just me having OCD and wanting everything symmetrical? (currently there are the same number of territories in the north and south and same number of attacks). i mean its not like its south against the north when playing the map, but it still looks really uneven if you know what i mean

i just checked ithttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_IIthis is from 1972 much later than when my map was set anyway, in which time, i havent seen an actual map but by this time usa was clearly losing which is why they would have had to resort to such measures. my map is set in 1964 when it was more balanced

any more ideas? so far i have just de-saturated the image by 10 and darkened it by 5 plus made hanoi and saigon yellow with red and blue stars respectively. i am doing these changes on both images so the change of coloured text if happens will already be taken care of.

the text is now small but that can be worked on later, i'll do the actual smaller version once i have finished the large version to completion (if ever) this is just to see how the sizes of image and text are. in terms of size, the font is actually about the same as in classic so maybe i can also add shadows or other effects to make the text stand out like in classic but as long as i dont have to resize everything then im good, thats what i was worrying about the most anyway. in this copy i didnt make it sharper or anything it was just to test the digits. by the way do most people on here use small or large when they are playing?

a lot less comments now for some reason i mean the text colour is still in discussion and so is the bombing of hanoi, apart from that all i have done is fix up some colours and also background proportions and soon add another digit to each army digits. is my map a lost cause or something?

Try to go with a progressive color flow. Take a look at how this map was done. Other than the brightness of the yellow it has a nice color flow.

Go with black text imo.

Ho Chi Minh trail looks more like a land mass than a trail. I think you could get a better feel/look if ya play with it. Try it like a route 66 highway. You could also do away with red route arrows by just using connections. You also don't need the entire trail for a bonus. Say +1 for any 3. Something to think about.

I see in your legend intro it's 1964. Hanoi bombing not an issue.

I would do away with the "puppet of US" crack though...

This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.

drunkmonkey wrote:I'm filing a C&A report right now. Its nice because they have a drop-down for "jefjef".

so i tried out your advice and made a different colour scheme going red to orange to green to blue instead of orange to red to blue to green. comparison (note that i havent bothered to change the text and legend colours in the new scheme yet)

new scheme

vs

old scheme

too bad i cant have two polls at once, so this can just be for discussion. so please discuss

cant really tell to be honest one has dark colours near the middle going to light colours near the top and bottom and the other vice versa.the top of the new one is pretty good but the dark green looks a bit out of place

also how come there has been so much talk about the graphics but not much about gameplay? the only gameplay thing i remember is sully saying that ho chi minh trail was overpowered. things that could be discussed: how good are the bonuses? how good are the impassables? would this map allow many strategies? is the strategies for this map quite different from others? which region would you go for first provided you had a decent drop on each one? etcplease discuss (you can also discuss my continuing use of the word discuss)