I don't care for it at all. I don't have a theological reason not to (if I thought about it I would probably come up with something) but rather purely asthetical. I can't stand modern music, rock most of all.

I much prefer more classical music and I love chant.

JOe Zollars

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There's some good Christian metal out there. Tourniquet (who not too long ago released a new album) at the top of the list. They're a thrash band I'd put up against Metallica any day (and I used to be a major Metallica mark). Early Deliverance for more thrash, though not as good as Tourniquet. Underoath if you like the heavier stuff. Six Feet Deep if you like a hardcore/groove metal. Even early Whitecross if you happen to like that high-pitched early 80's metal style. The lyrics are all of questionable theological precision, but they're heartfelt, and I'd rather listen to people singing about how they love Christ and are trying to be good Christians than to listen to most of the alternatives.

Oddly enough, I can think of theological reasons for not listening to metal. More than half a dozen, actually. But it's all subjective. Music that might whip one person into a frenzy (making him want to get into a mosh pit), for another person relieves tension. Music (let's say, classical) that might have a profound spiritual influence on someone, might bore another person and put them to sleep. For my own part, some of the theological reasons against metal are valid in my own life. But having tried to go without such music for well over a year, I can safely say that it's better (for me at least) to get a little dirty with Christian Metal, than to get really muddy without it.

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It is better both to attain the good and to keep the purification. But if it be impossible to do both it is surely better to be a little stained with your public affairs than to fall altogether short of grace; just as I think it better to undergo a slight punishment from father or master than to be put out of doors; and to be a little beamed upon than to be left in total darkness. And it is the part of wise men to choose, as in good things the greater and more perfect, so in evils the lesser and lighter. Wherefore do not overmuch dread the purification. For our success is always judged by comparison with our place in life by our just and merciful Judge; and often one who is in public life and has had small success has had a greater reward than one who in the enjoyment of liberty has not completely succeeded; as I think it more marvellous for a man to advance a little in fetters, than for one to run who is not carrying any weight; or to be only a little spattered in walking through mud, than to be perfectly clean when the road is clean. - St. Gregory the Theologian, Oration 40, 19

PS. I should add that Christian Rock isn't that much different than Secular Rock as far as quality. Probably 1% of both secular and Christian bands are really good. The difference is that when it comes to secular, that 1% comes out to like 500 bands in the history of rock, since 50,000 bands have tried. When it comes to Christians, though, maybe only 5,000 bands have tried, so there's maybe 50 good Christian bands. And while there are good secular bands who very few have heard about, because of the nature of the music business, there's even more Christian bands who people have never heard about. Thus, it seems (to those who have never really looked hard) that Christian bands suck. They don't. If someone puts an effort into finding good Christian bands (in every genre), they will find them.

In regards to contemporary Christian music, I would recommend the group "Eikona", which I seem to recall is made up of 4 women who are wives of Greek Orthodox priests. I've seen them perform and have a couple of their CDs. Good stuff, blending chants, etc, with more contemporary sounds.

I was subjected to a year very little but CCM in my brief sojourn as a student at an evangelical college. Very little of it was enjoyable for me as most was sappy dreck, but that can be said for popular music as Justin pointed out above. I like some of Bebo Norman's stuff (especially The Hammer Holds and A Page is Turned) and enjoy the song "Flood" by Jars of Clay, as well as some of the ska by Audio Adrenaline is okay.

There are several once-CCM artists that are now exclusively secular musicians that I enjoy. Lifehouse, The Cardigans, and Maire Brennan. And I can't forget that Bob Dylan had a gospel album.

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"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."-Yazid Ibrahim

Personally, I don't care for it very much. Most of it doesn't really say much, or worse, has bad theology in it. The sad thing is that many churches are singing the praise songs instead of the old hymns, and some of those praise songs aren't that great.

The Akathist invites us to rejoice in the role the Virgin Mary played in the incarnation. "Rejoice, for thou sustaineth the Sustainer of all; Rejoice, thou through whom the Creator becometh a babe!" Cd & cassette

One really good Orthodox musician that I've heard is Peter Jon Gillquist. And before you ask, yes, he is Fr. Peter Gillquist's son. He's kinda folky (or at least he was when he started), but he's evolved toward more of an psuedo-indie-rock style. It's really hard to describe what he sounds like. You kind of just have to listen to him and hear for yourself.The only reason I know about him is because he graduated from the same (Protestant - specifically Reformed Presbyterian [grrrrrrr]) college that I'm attending, his home parish is about a mile away from the school, and they sell his CDs there, which isn't surprising, since we're basically supporting him at St. Vladimir's.But, anyway, yeah, I really like Pete's music and I think you guys might want to look into it.

One really good Orthodox musician that I've heard is Peter Jon Gillquist. And before you ask, yes, he is Fr. Peter Gillquist's son. He's kinda folky (or at least he was when he started), but he's evolved toward more of an psuedo-indie-rock style. It's really hard to describe what he sounds like. You kind of just have to listen to him and hear for yourself.The only reason I know about him is because he graduated from the same (Protestant - specifically Reformed Presbyterian [grrrrrrr]) college that I'm attending, his home parish is about a mile away from the school, and they sell his CDs there, which isn't surprising, since we're basically supporting him at St. Vladimir's.But, anyway, yeah, I really like Pete's music and I think you guys might want to look into it.

Dude, his home parish is St. Athanasius in Isla Vista (by Santa Barbara). I know, I grew up with him. He was only in Beaver Falls for a few years.

Peter's not bad. I'd that is a pretty accurate description of him. He's very adept, practical and industrious about promoting himself to the right audiences. He has decent talent, but I know a few that are far more talented - they just don't know how to market themselves and such.

Christian rock - boring, banal, derivative and that's just the music - don't get me started on the lyrics and the absolutely awful theology.oh, did I mention boring?But "contemporary" praise music is the WORST.Where's the barfing smiley when you need it?

Neworthodox, I totally agree for the most part. And I definitely agree about the contemporary praise music. The ones that put scriptures to music aren't as bad as some of them, but the Orthodox settings are so much better!

Christian rock - boring, banal, derivative and that's just the music - don't get me started on the lyrics and the absolutely awful theology.oh, did I mention boring?But "contemporary" praise music is the WORST.Where's the barfing smiley when you need it?

Aesthically speaking it's schlocky and dull and reminds me of those fake designer perfumes you can buy at Right Aid or CVS. I can almost hear the ads now... "Like Pearl Jam hate thier dark message? Try Creed! Same rock star image with a new and hip gospel message. For every secular trend there is a "Clean Christian Equivalent". There are Christian punk bands, boy bands, riot grrrrrl bands, goth bands...etc. etc. Name a trend in music and I can find you its Christian equivalent. Ummm Gimme a Break.

My other objection, the message from these groups are overwhelmingly Protestant. I'm not Protestant, I don't want Protestant theology in my music.

Finally, the whole "Church of the Christ Consumer" concept makes my teeth itch. CCM just plays into this. I don't see how a megaplex of two auditoriums, 30 classrooms, a board of 10, staff of 40 4 Pepsi machines, gift shop, in house coffee bar and a gymnasium equals a sacred space to worship God? Getting all whooped into a frenzy over the latest christian boy band does not look like worship to me. It looks like a bunch of teen girls getting whooped into a frenzy over a group of boys.

The CCM that I particularly loathe is the "Praise Song" kind. It is put forth for congregational singing, but often doesn't work due to large jumps between notes, long sustains, no regular meter or rhythm. Large groups of people singing together work better with some regular structure and (Dare I say it) even some rhyme and scansion. That doesn't mean non-harmonic or nursery rhyme simple. "Sacred Harp" songs are multi-part and not dull, but they were meant (with a bit of learning) to be sung by groups.

The other problem is that to me (having quirky senses of humour and music) alot of these songs sound like either commercials or tv theme songs. "Taste and See" makes me think of a butter/dairy ad, while "Here Am I, Lord" has a melody that is amazingly akin to the theme from "The Brady Bunch"

CCM is like those "Christian" t-shirts with corporate logos, like the one that looks like the Coke logo and says "Jesus, the Real Thing". When I see those, the hair stands up on the back of my neck and I start growling!!!!!(grrr)

There's some good Christian metal out there. Tourniquet (who not too long ago released a new album) at the top of the list. They're a thrash band I'd put up against Metallica any day (and I used to be a major Metallica mark). Early Deliverance for more thrash, though not as good as Tourniquet. Underoath if you like the heavier stuff. Six Feet Deep if you like a hardcore/groove metal. Even early Whitecross if you happen to like that high-pitched early 80's metal style. The lyrics are all of questionable theological precision, but they're heartfelt, and I'd rather listen to people singing about how they love Christ and are trying to be good Christians than to listen to most of the alternatives.

Oddly enough, I can think of theological reasons for not listening to metal. More than half a dozen, actually. But it's all subjective. Music that might whip one person into a frenzy (making him want to get into a mosh pit), for another person relieves tension. Music (let's say, classical) that might have a profound spiritual influence on someone, might bore another person and put them to sleep. For my own part, some of the theological reasons against metal are valid in my own life. But having tried to go without such music for well over a year, I can safely say that it's better (for me at least) to get a little dirty with Christian Metal, than to get really muddy without it.

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It is better both to attain the good and to keep the purification. But if it be impossible to do both it is surely better to be a little stained with your public affairs than to fall altogether short of grace; just as I think it better to undergo a slight punishment from father or master than to be put out of doors; and to be a little beamed upon than to be left in total darkness. And it is the part of wise men to choose, as in good things the greater and more perfect, so in evils the lesser and lighter. Wherefore do not overmuch dread the purification. For our success is always judged by comparison with our place in life by our just and merciful Judge; and often one who is in public life and has had small success has had a greater reward than one who in the enjoyment of liberty has not completely succeeded; as I think it more marvellous for a man to advance a little in fetters, than for one to run who is not carrying any weight; or to be only a little spattered in walking through mud, than to be perfectly clean when the road is clean. - St. Gregory the Theologian, Oration 40, 19

PS. I should add that Christian Rock isn't that much different than Secular Rock as far as quality. Probably 1% of both secular and Christian bands are really good. The difference is that when it comes to secular, that 1% comes out to like 500 bands in the history of rock, since 50,000 bands have tried. When it comes to Christians, though, maybe only 5,000 bands have tried, so there's maybe 50 good Christian bands. And while there are good secular bands who very few have heard about, because of the nature of the music business, there's even more Christian bands who people have never heard about. Thus, it seems (to those who have never really looked hard) that Christian bands suck. They don't. If someone puts an effort into finding good Christian bands (in every genre), they will find them.

This surprises me that you have gone back. Then again it probably doesn't. Many Christian metal bands just stink compared to their non-Christian counterparts. Maybe it is because Christian metal bands lack the anger and the edge needed to make heavy metal music that speaks to people. Perhaps they are not as competent musicians. I think both instances are true to a certain point. Singing about Jesus just isn't going to do it, especially when your life is falling apart or having your heart ripped out.

As for Tourniquet being up there with Metallica, I don't know. Do you mean old Metallica or new Metallica? Either way, I can think other bands that are far better than Tourniquet out there that can rank up there to Metallica. I have listened to some Tourniquet songs, and to be honest I wouldn't spend a nickel on their albums. If I want to listen to thrash metal then I'll listen to Exodus and Testament before I'd listen to Tourniquet.

CCM is like those "Christian" t-shirts with corporate logos, like the one that looks like the Coke logo and says "Jesus, the Real Thing". When I see those, the hair stands up on the back of my neck and I start growling!!!!!(grrr)

Same here, minus the growl. More of a sigh. (sigh)

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"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."-Yazid Ibrahim

I'm not a fan of Christian rock ; not because of religious reasons, but because most of it is such poor quality and sounds so lame. I think that DC Talk is one of the cheesiest groups I have ever heard.

The only Christian group that I think is quite talented is Delirious. They sound a lot like U2 & they put on a great show.

Faith+1

« Last Edit: April 21, 2004, 03:31:50 AM by Orthodox Bagpiper »

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

Has anyone heard the music of Peter Jon Gillquist? I have seen his albums availible on various Orthodox sites. I was wondering if he was any good.

PS- Is he related to Father Peter Gillquist?

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

Mor Ephrem is a nice guy. Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

The Contemporary Urban Gospel is mostly garbage too. Kirk Franklin and those guys just take the latest rap and R&B songs off the radio and remake them as cheesy Gospel tunes (Hey! I thought y'all didn't listen to secular music? How'd you even hear that song to remake it, Kirk? He'd probably say he was despoiling the Devil's camp and taking the music back for God! Hehehe...).

I agree with Bogoliubsty about the old bluegrass tunes though. I dig them (O Come Angel Band). And I especially like the old Sam Cooke & the Soul Stirrers type of Quartet Gospel. I don't consider any of music to really be "sacred music" though except the chants of the Orthodox Church.

I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.