I didn't know Buddhists worshipped Buddha as a god. He certainly claimed he was no deity at all.

Buddhist theology defines a "god" as a person living in the higher spiritual realms, composed of a spiritual body, and having a limited (even if eon-long) lifetime. Buddhist cosmology posits that many, if not all, humans have, at some point, taken rebirth as a "god", due to their practice of dharma, or "what is right". The Buddha's previous lives included many lifetimes as a "god".

However, it is true that the Buddha's final lifetime, was spent as a human. A human can realize the end of suffering ("nirvana"), whereas a "god", in general, can't. It would be more accurate to say that Buddhists worship/venerate Shakyamuni as a Buddha; to worship/venerate him as a mere "god" would be to insult him.

What many people dont understand is that Buddhism is a very diverse philosophy with many schools of thought (denominations). The most authentic Buddhists dont worship a God. There are some Buddhists who are Polytheistic such as those who worship Hindu Gods or those who worship Shinto or Chinese Gods in addition to those who practice ancestor worship. There are also some Buddhists who have deified the Buddha and worship him, but thats not the mainline teaching of Buddhism.

It's a highly dubious enterprise to distinguish between a supposedly pure Buddhism and a corrupted Buddhism. It is certainly "mainline" among Mahayana Buddhists to see the Buddha as the eternal, underlying reality (and thus, comparable to concepts of God). It is also very "mainline" for Hindu, Chinese, and Shinto deities to be revered by Buddhists as "dharma protectors" or even as emanations of Buddhas. For example, the Hindu goddess Saraswati is revered in Tibet as a bodhisattva. Rather than completely supplanting local cults, the usual Buddhist practice was to bind the gods as protectors of the dharma, and this is a very orthodox Buddhist practice.

Also, while there are many different strands of Buddhism, I think it's safe to say that they are far more unified in fundamental beliefs than the various Hindu or Christian sects.

Tell that to the Dalai Lama

The Dalai Lama, as a Gelugpa teacher, naturally upholds all of the dharma protectors and yidams of his sect (except for the retired Dorje Shugden, which is a whole other can o' worms). Here is a prayer to the goddess Palden Lhamo which he composed himself. I'm not sure what makes you think he would do otherwise. Devotion toward the various Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and dharma-protector gods is central to all forms of Tibetan Buddhism.

Quote

or the Hardcore Theravada Monks in Thailand

"Hardcore" or not, it is standard practice for Theravadins to prostrate before the Buddha, sing his praises, make offerings, and take refuge in him. These practices are all sanctioned and enjoined in the Buddhist scriptures and are not merely some folk customs which have accrued. Maybe that's not "worship" in your book?

Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cryIs to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

My favorite Chinese restaurant in Philadelphia has a rather large Buddha with dollar bills affixed to it at the back of the restaurant.

I pray before I eat, asking God to bless the food (thereby making it holy and clean in a spiritual sense) and keep my eyes and soul on my food and my wife (and anyone else we happen to be eating with when visiting) and don't worry about the Buddha.

Far more distracting are the huge Chinese families that eat at the big tables. Although their presence is always a good sign, some families can get quite loud just because there are 15+ people eating and talking at the same time eight feet away from you.

My son took karate for many years at a dojo run by a Greek Orthodox fellow. He had a Japanese style kami-dan ( deity house) up on the wall.

It rather bothered me. I never said anything.

Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

I didn't know Buddhists worshipped Buddha as a god. He certainly claimed he was no deity at all.

Buddhist theology defines a "god" as a person living in the higher spiritual realms, composed of a spiritual body, and having a limited (even if eon-long) lifetime. Buddhist cosmology posits that many, if not all, humans have, at some point, taken rebirth as a "god", due to their practice of dharma, or "what is right". The Buddha's previous lives included many lifetimes as a "god".

However, it is true that the Buddha's final lifetime, was spent as a human. A human can realize the end of suffering ("nirvana"), whereas a "god", in general, can't. It would be more accurate to say that Buddhists worship/venerate Shakyamuni as a Buddha; to worship/venerate him as a mere "god" would be to insult him.

What many people dont understand is that Buddhism is a very diverse philosophy with many schools of thought (denominations). The most authentic Buddhists dont worship a God. There are some Buddhists who are Polytheistic such as those who worship Hindu Gods or those who worship Shinto or Chinese Gods in addition to those who practice ancestor worship. There are also some Buddhists who have deified the Buddha and worship him, but thats not the mainline teaching of Buddhism.

It's a highly dubious enterprise to distinguish between a supposedly pure Buddhism and a corrupted Buddhism. It is certainly "mainline" among Mahayana Buddhists to see the Buddha as the eternal, underlying reality (and thus, comparable to concepts of God). It is also very "mainline" for Hindu, Chinese, and Shinto deities to be revered by Buddhists as "dharma protectors" or even as emanations of Buddhas. For example, the Hindu goddess Saraswati is revered in Tibet as a bodhisattva. Rather than completely supplanting local cults, the usual Buddhist practice was to bind the gods as protectors of the dharma, and this is a very orthodox Buddhist practice.

Also, while there are many different strands of Buddhism, I think it's safe to say that they are far more unified in fundamental beliefs than the various Hindu or Christian sects.

Tell that to the Dalai Lama or the Hardcore Theravada Monks in Thailand, Im sure they wont agree that worshiping these deities or the Buddha would be acceptable according to what Buddha preached. However, these practices are well accepted by a very large number of Buddhists.

Um, I saw five of the Dalai Lama's monks pray to Buddha last week. What are you talking about?

Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

I didn't know Buddhists worshipped Buddha as a god. He certainly claimed he was no deity at all.

Buddhist theology defines a "god" as a person living in the higher spiritual realms, composed of a spiritual body, and having a limited (even if eon-long) lifetime. Buddhist cosmology posits that many, if not all, humans have, at some point, taken rebirth as a "god", due to their practice of dharma, or "what is right". The Buddha's previous lives included many lifetimes as a "god".

However, it is true that the Buddha's final lifetime, was spent as a human. A human can realize the end of suffering ("nirvana"), whereas a "god", in general, can't. It would be more accurate to say that Buddhists worship/venerate Shakyamuni as a Buddha; to worship/venerate him as a mere "god" would be to insult him.

What many people dont understand is that Buddhism is a very diverse philosophy with many schools of thought (denominations). The most authentic Buddhists dont worship a God. There are some Buddhists who are Polytheistic such as those who worship Hindu Gods or those who worship Shinto or Chinese Gods in addition to those who practice ancestor worship. There are also some Buddhists who have deified the Buddha and worship him, but thats not the mainline teaching of Buddhism.

It's a highly dubious enterprise to distinguish between a supposedly pure Buddhism and a corrupted Buddhism. It is certainly "mainline" among Mahayana Buddhists to see the Buddha as the eternal, underlying reality (and thus, comparable to concepts of God). It is also very "mainline" for Hindu, Chinese, and Shinto deities to be revered by Buddhists as "dharma protectors" or even as emanations of Buddhas. For example, the Hindu goddess Saraswati is revered in Tibet as a bodhisattva. Rather than completely supplanting local cults, the usual Buddhist practice was to bind the gods as protectors of the dharma, and this is a very orthodox Buddhist practice.

Also, while there are many different strands of Buddhism, I think it's safe to say that they are far more unified in fundamental beliefs than the various Hindu or Christian sects.

Tell that to the Dalai Lama

The Dalai Lama, as a Gelugpa teacher, naturally upholds all of the dharma protectors and yidams of his sect (except for the retired Dorje Shugden, which is a whole other can o' worms). Here is a prayer to the goddess Palden Lhamo which he composed himself. I'm not sure what makes you think he would do otherwise. Devotion toward the various Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and dharma-protector gods is central to all forms of Tibetan Buddhism.

Quote

or the Hardcore Theravada Monks in Thailand

"Hardcore" or not, it is standard practice for Theravadins to prostrate before the Buddha, sing his praises, make offerings, and take refuge in him. These practices are all sanctioned and enjoined in the Buddhist scriptures and are not merely some folk customs which have accrued. Maybe that's not "worship" in your book?

Does anyone remember the Evangelical Christian lady on "Survivor" who refused to offer a pinch of incense in front of a Buddhist altar?

The setting was in Thailand I think. At the start of the series the contestants were to participate in a "Buddhist Welcoming Ceremony"Thye were to walk up a long flight of steps and go into a Buddhist Temple with the monks chanting a sutra. They were to then bow all the way down in front of the altar and then get up and offer a pinch of incense.

She refused.. got up and left.

Jeff Probst was annoyed and kept saying to her that it was only a "Welcoming Ceremony"..She explained that she was not comfortable and that it looked too much like worship and that she didn't care if it hurt her chances in the game..

Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

I didn't know Buddhists worshipped Buddha as a god. He certainly claimed he was no deity at all.

Buddhist theology defines a "god" as a person living in the higher spiritual realms, composed of a spiritual body, and having a limited (even if eon-long) lifetime. Buddhist cosmology posits that many, if not all, humans have, at some point, taken rebirth as a "god", due to their practice of dharma, or "what is right". The Buddha's previous lives included many lifetimes as a "god".

However, it is true that the Buddha's final lifetime, was spent as a human. A human can realize the end of suffering ("nirvana"), whereas a "god", in general, can't. It would be more accurate to say that Buddhists worship/venerate Shakyamuni as a Buddha; to worship/venerate him as a mere "god" would be to insult him.

What many people dont understand is that Buddhism is a very diverse philosophy with many schools of thought (denominations). The most authentic Buddhists dont worship a God. There are some Buddhists who are Polytheistic such as those who worship Hindu Gods or those who worship Shinto or Chinese Gods in addition to those who practice ancestor worship. There are also some Buddhists who have deified the Buddha and worship him, but thats not the mainline teaching of Buddhism.

It's a highly dubious enterprise to distinguish between a supposedly pure Buddhism and a corrupted Buddhism. It is certainly "mainline" among Mahayana Buddhists to see the Buddha as the eternal, underlying reality (and thus, comparable to concepts of God). It is also very "mainline" for Hindu, Chinese, and Shinto deities to be revered by Buddhists as "dharma protectors" or even as emanations of Buddhas. For example, the Hindu goddess Saraswati is revered in Tibet as a bodhisattva. Rather than completely supplanting local cults, the usual Buddhist practice was to bind the gods as protectors of the dharma, and this is a very orthodox Buddhist practice.

Also, while there are many different strands of Buddhism, I think it's safe to say that they are far more unified in fundamental beliefs than the various Hindu or Christian sects.

Tell that to the Dalai Lama

The Dalai Lama, as a Gelugpa teacher, naturally upholds all of the dharma protectors and yidams of his sect (except for the retired Dorje Shugden, which is a whole other can o' worms). Here is a prayer to the goddess Palden Lhamo which he composed himself. I'm not sure what makes you think he would do otherwise. Devotion toward the various Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and dharma-protector gods is central to all forms of Tibetan Buddhism.

Quote

or the Hardcore Theravada Monks in Thailand

"Hardcore" or not, it is standard practice for Theravadins to prostrate before the Buddha, sing his praises, make offerings, and take refuge in him. These practices are all sanctioned and enjoined in the Buddhist scriptures and are not merely some folk customs which have accrued. Maybe that's not "worship" in your book?

Does anyone remember the Evangelical Christian lady on "Survivor" who refused to offer a pinch of incense in front of a Buddhist altar?

The setting was in Thailand I think. At the start of the series the contestants were to participate in a "Buddhist Welcoming Ceremony"Thye were to walk up a long flight of steps and go into a Buddhist Temple with the monks chanting a sutra. They were to then bow all the way down in front of the altar and then get up and offer a pinch of incense.

She refused.. got up and left.

Jeff Probst was annoyed and kept saying to her that it was only a "Welcoming Ceremony"..She explained that she was not comfortable and that it looked too much like worship and that she didn't care if it hurt her chances in the game..

The lady was right, though I wonder how she would feel about an icon of Christ.

A lot of times from American Buddhists, I will hear them try to explain away bowing to statues of Buddha. They'll say, "You're really bowing to yourself," or "your own Buddha nature," or "reality"- anything to make it other than a religious practice. Protestant and atheist hang-ups are really prevalent in American Buddhism.

Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cryIs to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

I didn't know Buddhists worshipped Buddha as a god. He certainly claimed he was no deity at all.

Buddhist theology defines a "god" as a person living in the higher spiritual realms, composed of a spiritual body, and having a limited (even if eon-long) lifetime. Buddhist cosmology posits that many, if not all, humans have, at some point, taken rebirth as a "god", due to their practice of dharma, or "what is right". The Buddha's previous lives included many lifetimes as a "god".

However, it is true that the Buddha's final lifetime, was spent as a human. A human can realize the end of suffering ("nirvana"), whereas a "god", in general, can't. It would be more accurate to say that Buddhists worship/venerate Shakyamuni as a Buddha; to worship/venerate him as a mere "god" would be to insult him.

What many people dont understand is that Buddhism is a very diverse philosophy with many schools of thought (denominations). The most authentic Buddhists dont worship a God. There are some Buddhists who are Polytheistic such as those who worship Hindu Gods or those who worship Shinto or Chinese Gods in addition to those who practice ancestor worship. There are also some Buddhists who have deified the Buddha and worship him, but thats not the mainline teaching of Buddhism.

It's a highly dubious enterprise to distinguish between a supposedly pure Buddhism and a corrupted Buddhism. It is certainly "mainline" among Mahayana Buddhists to see the Buddha as the eternal, underlying reality (and thus, comparable to concepts of God). It is also very "mainline" for Hindu, Chinese, and Shinto deities to be revered by Buddhists as "dharma protectors" or even as emanations of Buddhas. For example, the Hindu goddess Saraswati is revered in Tibet as a bodhisattva. Rather than completely supplanting local cults, the usual Buddhist practice was to bind the gods as protectors of the dharma, and this is a very orthodox Buddhist practice.

Also, while there are many different strands of Buddhism, I think it's safe to say that they are far more unified in fundamental beliefs than the various Hindu or Christian sects.

Tell that to the Dalai Lama

The Dalai Lama, as a Gelugpa teacher, naturally upholds all of the dharma protectors and yidams of his sect (except for the retired Dorje Shugden, which is a whole other can o' worms). Here is a prayer to the goddess Palden Lhamo which he composed himself. I'm not sure what makes you think he would do otherwise. Devotion toward the various Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and dharma-protector gods is central to all forms of Tibetan Buddhism.

Quote

or the Hardcore Theravada Monks in Thailand

"Hardcore" or not, it is standard practice for Theravadins to prostrate before the Buddha, sing his praises, make offerings, and take refuge in him. These practices are all sanctioned and enjoined in the Buddhist scriptures and are not merely some folk customs which have accrued. Maybe that's not "worship" in your book?

Does anyone remember the Evangelical Christian lady on "Survivor" who refused to offer a pinch of incense in front of a Buddhist altar?

The setting was in Thailand I think. At the start of the series the contestants were to participate in a "Buddhist Welcoming Ceremony"Thye were to walk up a long flight of steps and go into a Buddhist Temple with the monks chanting a sutra. They were to then bow all the way down in front of the altar and then get up and offer a pinch of incense.

She refused.. got up and left.

Jeff Probst was annoyed and kept saying to her that it was only a "Welcoming Ceremony"..She explained that she was not comfortable and that it looked too much like worship and that she didn't care if it hurt her chances in the game..

The lady was right, though I wonder how she would feel about an icon of Christ.

A lot of times from American Buddhists, I will hear them try to explain away bowing to statues of Buddha. They'll say, "You're really bowing to yourself," or "your own Buddha nature," or "reality"- anything to make it other than a religious practice. Protestant and atheist hang-ups are really prevalent in American Buddhism.

In Japanese Buddhism that is called "Hongaku Shi-so" , everyone is a Buddha "inherently" deep down inside and all you need to do is realize it. So you are bowing to yourself etc. It does come from a strain within Buddhism dating from around the 14th century but wholly inauthentic. Americans glomed onto it and the Japanese figure it's the only way to convert us barbarians.

Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

I didn't know Buddhists worshipped Buddha as a god. He certainly claimed he was no deity at all.

Buddhist theology defines a "god" as a person living in the higher spiritual realms, composed of a spiritual body, and having a limited (even if eon-long) lifetime. Buddhist cosmology posits that many, if not all, humans have, at some point, taken rebirth as a "god", due to their practice of dharma, or "what is right". The Buddha's previous lives included many lifetimes as a "god".

However, it is true that the Buddha's final lifetime, was spent as a human. A human can realize the end of suffering ("nirvana"), whereas a "god", in general, can't. It would be more accurate to say that Buddhists worship/venerate Shakyamuni as a Buddha; to worship/venerate him as a mere "god" would be to insult him.

What many people dont understand is that Buddhism is a very diverse philosophy with many schools of thought (denominations). The most authentic Buddhists dont worship a God. There are some Buddhists who are Polytheistic such as those who worship Hindu Gods or those who worship Shinto or Chinese Gods in addition to those who practice ancestor worship. There are also some Buddhists who have deified the Buddha and worship him, but thats not the mainline teaching of Buddhism.

It's a highly dubious enterprise to distinguish between a supposedly pure Buddhism and a corrupted Buddhism. It is certainly "mainline" among Mahayana Buddhists to see the Buddha as the eternal, underlying reality (and thus, comparable to concepts of God). It is also very "mainline" for Hindu, Chinese, and Shinto deities to be revered by Buddhists as "dharma protectors" or even as emanations of Buddhas. For example, the Hindu goddess Saraswati is revered in Tibet as a bodhisattva. Rather than completely supplanting local cults, the usual Buddhist practice was to bind the gods as protectors of the dharma, and this is a very orthodox Buddhist practice.

Also, while there are many different strands of Buddhism, I think it's safe to say that they are far more unified in fundamental beliefs than the various Hindu or Christian sects.

Tell that to the Dalai Lama or the Hardcore Theravada Monks in Thailand, Im sure they wont agree that worshiping these deities or the Buddha would be acceptable according to what Buddha preached. However, these practices are well accepted by a very large number of Buddhists.

Um, I saw five of the Dalai Lama's monks pray to Buddha last week. What are you talking about?

These pray to the Buddha like we pray to Saints, Lord have His mercy I expect such conflations from Protestants but in Orthodox?

All doctrines and theology aside, the Dali Lama is a great man, a wise teacher, and a simply wonderful person. In fact, with is wicked sense of humor he often reminds me of my favorite Ethiopian priest

stay blessed,habte selassie

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

I didn't know Buddhists worshipped Buddha as a god. He certainly claimed he was no deity at all.

Buddhist theology defines a "god" as a person living in the higher spiritual realms, composed of a spiritual body, and having a limited (even if eon-long) lifetime. Buddhist cosmology posits that many, if not all, humans have, at some point, taken rebirth as a "god", due to their practice of dharma, or "what is right". The Buddha's previous lives included many lifetimes as a "god".

However, it is true that the Buddha's final lifetime, was spent as a human. A human can realize the end of suffering ("nirvana"), whereas a "god", in general, can't. It would be more accurate to say that Buddhists worship/venerate Shakyamuni as a Buddha; to worship/venerate him as a mere "god" would be to insult him.

What many people dont understand is that Buddhism is a very diverse philosophy with many schools of thought (denominations). The most authentic Buddhists dont worship a God. There are some Buddhists who are Polytheistic such as those who worship Hindu Gods or those who worship Shinto or Chinese Gods in addition to those who practice ancestor worship. There are also some Buddhists who have deified the Buddha and worship him, but thats not the mainline teaching of Buddhism.

It's a highly dubious enterprise to distinguish between a supposedly pure Buddhism and a corrupted Buddhism. It is certainly "mainline" among Mahayana Buddhists to see the Buddha as the eternal, underlying reality (and thus, comparable to concepts of God). It is also very "mainline" for Hindu, Chinese, and Shinto deities to be revered by Buddhists as "dharma protectors" or even as emanations of Buddhas. For example, the Hindu goddess Saraswati is revered in Tibet as a bodhisattva. Rather than completely supplanting local cults, the usual Buddhist practice was to bind the gods as protectors of the dharma, and this is a very orthodox Buddhist practice.

Also, while there are many different strands of Buddhism, I think it's safe to say that they are far more unified in fundamental beliefs than the various Hindu or Christian sects.

Tell that to the Dalai Lama or the Hardcore Theravada Monks in Thailand, Im sure they wont agree that worshiping these deities or the Buddha would be acceptable according to what Buddha preached. However, these practices are well accepted by a very large number of Buddhists.

If by "worship" you mean "honor, venerate", then the "worship" of the deities (powerful spiritual beings who can inspire one to practice dharma) is part of traditional Theravada practice.

The Theravada scriptures refer to the different subjects of meditation that are possible, the "ten recollections". In addition to meditating on the Buddha, or the Dhamma, or the Samgha, one can meditate on the Deities (the "Devas"), the sixth recollection. The Devas achieved their status because of their faith/conviction, virtue/ethics, learning/knowledge, generosity/charity, and discernment/wisdom. Recollecting, remembering, meditating on, and venerating the Devas can inspire one's own practice.

The Buddha told Mahanama: "Mahanama, you should develop this recollection of the devas while you are walking, while you are standing, while you are sitting, while you are lying down, while you are busy at work, while you are resting in your home crowded with children."

« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 02:02:03 PM by Jetavan »

Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

I didn't know Buddhists worshipped Buddha as a god. He certainly claimed he was no deity at all.

Buddhist theology defines a "god" as a person living in the higher spiritual realms, composed of a spiritual body, and having a limited (even if eon-long) lifetime. Buddhist cosmology posits that many, if not all, humans have, at some point, taken rebirth as a "god", due to their practice of dharma, or "what is right". The Buddha's previous lives included many lifetimes as a "god".

However, it is true that the Buddha's final lifetime, was spent as a human. A human can realize the end of suffering ("nirvana"), whereas a "god", in general, can't. It would be more accurate to say that Buddhists worship/venerate Shakyamuni as a Buddha; to worship/venerate him as a mere "god" would be to insult him.

What many people dont understand is that Buddhism is a very diverse philosophy with many schools of thought (denominations). The most authentic Buddhists dont worship a God. There are some Buddhists who are Polytheistic such as those who worship Hindu Gods or those who worship Shinto or Chinese Gods in addition to those who practice ancestor worship. There are also some Buddhists who have deified the Buddha and worship him, but thats not the mainline teaching of Buddhism.

It's a highly dubious enterprise to distinguish between a supposedly pure Buddhism and a corrupted Buddhism. It is certainly "mainline" among Mahayana Buddhists to see the Buddha as the eternal, underlying reality (and thus, comparable to concepts of God). It is also very "mainline" for Hindu, Chinese, and Shinto deities to be revered by Buddhists as "dharma protectors" or even as emanations of Buddhas. For example, the Hindu goddess Saraswati is revered in Tibet as a bodhisattva. Rather than completely supplanting local cults, the usual Buddhist practice was to bind the gods as protectors of the dharma, and this is a very orthodox Buddhist practice.

Also, while there are many different strands of Buddhism, I think it's safe to say that they are far more unified in fundamental beliefs than the various Hindu or Christian sects.

Tell that to the Dalai Lama or the Hardcore Theravada Monks in Thailand, Im sure they wont agree that worshiping these deities or the Buddha would be acceptable according to what Buddha preached. However, these practices are well accepted by a very large number of Buddhists.

If by "worship" you mean "honor, venerate", then the "worship" of the deities (powerful spiritual beings who can inspire one to practice dharma) is part of traditional Theravada practice.

The Theravada scriptures refer to the different subjects of meditation that are possible, the "ten recollections". In addition to meditating on the Buddha, or the Dhamma, or the Samgha, one can meditate on the Deities (the "Devas"), the sixth recollection. The Devas achieved their status because of their faith/conviction, virtue/ethics, learning/knowledge, generosity/charity, and discernment/wisdom. Recollecting, remembering, meditating on, and venerating the Devas can inspire one's own practice.

The Buddha told Mahanama: "Mahanama, you should develop this recollection of the devas while you are walking, while you are standing, while you are sitting, while you are lying down, while you are busy at work, while you are resting in your home crowded with children."

And in the Lotus Sutra which Theraveda does not accept it preaches the eternal life span of the Buddha who is omniscient and omni present and eternally living. "I will always be with you"........And the practice by many is to seek a sort of communion with this Eternal Being and have him dwell within you.

Go figure

« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 02:11:38 PM by Marc1152 »

Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

I didn't know Buddhists worshipped Buddha as a god. He certainly claimed he was no deity at all.

Buddhist theology defines a "god" as a person living in the higher spiritual realms, composed of a spiritual body, and having a limited (even if eon-long) lifetime. Buddhist cosmology posits that many, if not all, humans have, at some point, taken rebirth as a "god", due to their practice of dharma, or "what is right". The Buddha's previous lives included many lifetimes as a "god".

However, it is true that the Buddha's final lifetime, was spent as a human. A human can realize the end of suffering ("nirvana"), whereas a "god", in general, can't. It would be more accurate to say that Buddhists worship/venerate Shakyamuni as a Buddha; to worship/venerate him as a mere "god" would be to insult him.

What many people dont understand is that Buddhism is a very diverse philosophy with many schools of thought (denominations). The most authentic Buddhists dont worship a God. There are some Buddhists who are Polytheistic such as those who worship Hindu Gods or those who worship Shinto or Chinese Gods in addition to those who practice ancestor worship. There are also some Buddhists who have deified the Buddha and worship him, but thats not the mainline teaching of Buddhism.

It's a highly dubious enterprise to distinguish between a supposedly pure Buddhism and a corrupted Buddhism. It is certainly "mainline" among Mahayana Buddhists to see the Buddha as the eternal, underlying reality (and thus, comparable to concepts of God). It is also very "mainline" for Hindu, Chinese, and Shinto deities to be revered by Buddhists as "dharma protectors" or even as emanations of Buddhas. For example, the Hindu goddess Saraswati is revered in Tibet as a bodhisattva. Rather than completely supplanting local cults, the usual Buddhist practice was to bind the gods as protectors of the dharma, and this is a very orthodox Buddhist practice.

Also, while there are many different strands of Buddhism, I think it's safe to say that they are far more unified in fundamental beliefs than the various Hindu or Christian sects.

Tell that to the Dalai Lama or the Hardcore Theravada Monks in Thailand, Im sure they wont agree that worshiping these deities or the Buddha would be acceptable according to what Buddha preached. However, these practices are well accepted by a very large number of Buddhists.

Um, I saw five of the Dalai Lama's monks pray to Buddha last week. What are you talking about?

These pray to the Buddha like we pray to Saints, Lord have His mercy I expect such conflations from Protestants but in Orthodox?

All doctrines and theology aside, the Dali Lama is a great man, a wise teacher, and a simply wonderful person. In fact, with is wicked sense of humor he often reminds me of my favorite Ethiopian priest

stay blessed,habte selassie

Even if that were true (and it isn't) it wouldn't be a conflation based on what Krishnich said in his post.

Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Having been a practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism I can definitely tell you that it is not at all like our veneration of the saints.

My mistake

Do we all at least have a consensus about the HH the Dali Lama being a delightful man?

stay blessed,habte selassie

I like the Dalai Lama but, as far as a Buddhist teacher goes, he leaves much to be desired. If an Orthodox hierarch were to have a similar attitude toward his own tradition, he would be rightly censured as skirting heresy. The Tibetan Buddhists though are in a tough position because the Dalai Lama is supposed to be a reincarnate enlightened master and an emanation of Chenrezig.

Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cryIs to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Having been a practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism I can definitely tell you that it is not at all like our veneration of the saints.

My mistake

Do we all at least have a consensus about the HH the Dali Lama being a delightful man?

stay blessed,habte selassie

I like the Dalai Lama but, as far as a Buddhist teacher goes, he leaves much to be desired. If an Orthodox hierarch were to have a similar attitude toward his own tradition, he would be rightly censured as skirting heresy. The Tibetan Buddhists though are in a tough position because the Dalai Lama is supposed to be a reincarnate enlightened master and an emanation of Chenrezig.

I can agree, but in relative terms I think we could at best consider HH approach to be rather ecumenist

As Buddhists are taught to revere the Dali Lama in even a higher loyalty than Jains and Brahmans are to revere their gurus, then shouldn't folks accept HH personality and teaching as legit rather then critical? Either it is empty superstition then or folks should accept it as valid and reflect on what HH is teaching. Personally I feel in Orthodox we should be the same way about our priests and bishops when we challenge their traditionalism, perhaps we should be challenging ourselves instead?

stay blessed,habte selassie

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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Having been a practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism I can definitely tell you that it is not at all like our veneration of the saints.

My mistake

Do we all at least have a consensus about the HH the Dali Lama being a delightful man?

stay blessed,habte selassie

I like the Dalai Lama but, as far as a Buddhist teacher goes, he leaves much to be desired. If an Orthodox hierarch were to have a similar attitude toward his own tradition, he would be rightly censured as skirting heresy. The Tibetan Buddhists though are in a tough position because the Dalai Lama is supposed to be a reincarnate enlightened master and an emanation of Chenrezig.

I can agree, but in relative terms I think we could at best consider HH approach to be rather ecumenist

As Buddhists are taught to revere the Dali Lama in even a higher loyalty than Jains and Brahmans are to revere their gurus, then shouldn't folks accept HH personality and teaching as legit rather then critical? Either it is empty superstition then or folks should accept it as valid and reflect on what HH is teaching. Personally I feel in Orthodox we should be the same way about our priests and bishops when we challenge their traditionalism, perhaps we should be challenging ourselves instead?

stay blessed,habte selassie

To an extent, you are right. Often we perceive wrongs in others when it is really in ourselves, and criticism of clergy and hierarchs is something to be wary of. That said, we do not consider our bishops to be supremely enlightened beings, and that spares us some of the cognitive dissonance that I'm sure many Buddhists feel when, for example, they look at the Karmapa controversy, where there are two rival Karmapas, both of them recognized by very powerful reincarnate gurus. Why is an emanation of Amitabha squabbling with an emanation of Manjushri? When our clergy screw up, we don't get too surprised, because they're human. The Buddhists have to explain it some other way. They might say, "there only seems to be a conflict because of our delusion", or "the guru is testing our humility." This thinking can get very dangerous when the gurus start exploiting their adoring disciples for money, sex, etc. and the usual response is to blame the victim for not adopting a pure view of what's happening.

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"A riddle or the cricket's cryIs to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Having been a practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism I can definitely tell you that it is not at all like our veneration of the saints.

My mistake

Do we all at least have a consensus about the HH the Dali Lama being a delightful man?

stay blessed,habte selassie

I like the Dalai Lama but, as far as a Buddhist teacher goes, he leaves much to be desired. If an Orthodox hierarch were to have a similar attitude toward his own tradition....

Are you referring here specifically to the Dorje Shugden controversy?

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Having been a practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism I can definitely tell you that it is not at all like our veneration of the saints.

My mistake

Do we all at least have a consensus about the HH the Dali Lama being a delightful man?

stay blessed,habte selassie

I like the Dalai Lama but, as far as a Buddhist teacher goes, he leaves much to be desired. If an Orthodox hierarch were to have a similar attitude toward his own tradition....

Are you referring here specifically to the Dorje Shugden controversy?

Not particularly- Shugden is a sticking point for the very sectarian Gelukpas who still think their sect is superior to the others. I think most "red hats" are quite happy that the Dalai Lama has proscribed the Shugden cult. I'm thinking more the Dalai Lama's fawning over secularism and modern science, and his various hints that the Buddha-dharma may not have the ultimate truth.

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"A riddle or the cricket's cryIs to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

I think what he's saying is that, in the 21st century, large numbers of people adhere to some form of materialism/naturalism, especially those enamored by the successes of modern science. If religious people want to work together with the non-religious on pressing issues of modernity (poverty, injustice, environmental degradation, etc.), then a good way to do that would be to establish some basis for an ethics that does not require adherence to a non-materialistic/naturalistic framework. This doesn't mean that religious people give up their beliefs, but it means that "ethics" need not have a supernaturalistic foundation in order for it to inspire ethical action. Of course, from a Buddhist perspective, or a Christian perspective, the fullest form of ethics is not based on materialism/naturalism, but for the non-believer, a materialist/naturalist ethics is a good place to start.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 03:59:59 PM by Jetavan »

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

I do not care to entertain the materialist atheist in his morality as though it is outside of God just because he doesn't recognize God, though. The atheist may have his morality, similarly, without having to think of it in explicitly religious terms (obviously). I do not believe that working with any atheist or pagan or whatever should require us, as religious people, to have to rethink anything, just as I do not believe that any atheist who is committed to his belief should necessarily have to rethink that belief because others disagree. So I still find this a problematic statement. The solution to increasing atheism is not for religious people to begin to think atheistically.

I'm not convinced Chinese restauranteurs even consider their restaurant Buddha statues to be idols, so I don't see why we should. Regardless, they aren't offering customers' food to them as sacrifices, and even if they did, the Devil has no power anyway.

The Devil can only use what we give him, and I dare say the Devil has a stronger foothold in the gluttony that occurs at Chinese buffets than in the statue in the lobby.

this touches on something I have always wondered about. Is it a sin to have statues of deities know to be false (Thor, Zeus)? I have always liked classic mythology. On the other hand, since some people actually think that Orthodox Christians maintain a degree of Greek Mythology (seriously) I tend to avoid keeping those things around, lest I give the Enemy fodder to use

If they're just pieces of ancient art, I don't see the problem. I personally have a fascination for the religious art of ancient Egypt, and to my knowledge, my Anubis statue has never caused me to sin even once.

(I don't keep them in the same room as my icons though, so I suppose I draw the line there. It's not a scrupulous fear of spiritual interactions or anything, rather it just seems improper to pray in their presence.)

Having been a practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism I can definitely tell you that it is not at all like our veneration of the saints.

My mistake

Do we all at least have a consensus about the HH the Dali Lama being a delightful man?

stay blessed,habte selassie

I like the Dalai Lama but, as far as a Buddhist teacher goes, he leaves much to be desired. If an Orthodox hierarch were to have a similar attitude toward his own tradition, he would be rightly censured as skirting heresy. The Tibetan Buddhists though are in a tough position because the Dalai Lama is supposed to be a reincarnate enlightened master and an emanation of Chenrezig.

I can agree, but in relative terms I think we could at best consider HH approach to be rather ecumenist

As Buddhists are taught to revere the Dali Lama in even a higher loyalty than Jains and Brahmans are to revere their gurus, then shouldn't folks accept HH personality and teaching as legit rather then critical? Either it is empty superstition then or folks should accept it as valid and reflect on what HH is teaching. Personally I feel in Orthodox we should be the same way about our priests and bishops when we challenge their traditionalism, perhaps we should be challenging ourselves instead?

stay blessed,habte selassie

While he seems to be an engaging personality he does have a reputation for extreme ecumenism which does not sit will with more militant Buddhists.

For example there is a practice in some corners of Japanese Buddhism called Fuju Fuse, "No giving, No Taking"..from heretics.

Many a brave Buddhist Monk has endured torture and banishment or lost their heads ( literally) for not giving in and going along with the crowd. The Dali Lama's approach to religion, while it does have a certain appeal, is not well respected by some sects that have been persecuted and have suffered for their beliefs.

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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Make the sign of the cross and eat. The Buddha statue is probably just a decoration anyway without any real meaning.

called feng shui. The Buddha symbolizes prosperity, and they use it for good energy and to attract more business. Just like some christians who have the same theory but use an icon of the virgin with the baby jesus.

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Buddha - What would you do if there was a Buddha in a Chinese Restaurant?

Not order from the right side of the menu............

My nephew who is a practicing Buddhist has a Buddhist shrine in his home. We sometimes have dinner at his house and it simply doesnt bother me at all.

you amaze me. Your son is a buddhist and you are cool with it? I rarely see that from a christian. However I would be cool too. Everyone has rights, and if we want them to respect ours, we need to respect theirs.

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

I didn't know Buddhists worshipped Buddha as a god. He certainly claimed he was no deity at all.

The earth is the Lord's and everything in it, the Scripture says. People can offer whatever they want to whomever they want, but they are the ones who err, not that which is offered. No one but God can, ultimately, receive offerings because it is the nature of the Giver of Life to receive back from his creatures.

I was in Chinese diner which had an image of Buddha on top of an image of Christ and the Theotokos (there were crystal blocks, so they could stack). Waiting to pay the check, I rectified that by taking him off. Next time I was there, the owner pointed out that nothing was on top of the Christ and Mary images. I've patronized the establish as often as possible since then.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Buddha - What would you do if there was a Buddha in a Chinese Restaurant?

Not order from the right side of the menu............

My nephew who is a practicing Buddhist has a Buddhist shrine in his home. We sometimes have dinner at his house and it simply doesnt bother me at all.

you amaze me. Your son is a buddhist and you are cool with it? I rarely see that from a christian. However I would be cool too. Everyone has rights, and if we want them to respect ours, we need to respect theirs.

Says who?

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Buddha - What would you do if there was a Buddha in a Chinese Restaurant?

Not order from the right side of the menu............

My nephew who is a practicing Buddhist has a Buddhist shrine in his home. We sometimes have dinner at his house and it simply doesnt bother me at all.

you amaze me. Your son is a buddhist and you are cool with it? I rarely see that from a christian. However I would be cool too. Everyone has rights, and if we want them to respect ours, we need to respect theirs.

Buddha - What would you do if there was a Buddha in a Chinese Restaurant?

Not order from the right side of the menu............

My nephew who is a practicing Buddhist has a Buddhist shrine in his home. We sometimes have dinner at his house and it simply doesnt bother me at all.

you amaze me. Your son is a buddhist and you are cool with it? I rarely see that from a christian. However I would be cool too. Everyone has rights, and if we want them to respect ours, we need to respect theirs.

Says who?

I misread. It's a nephew, sorry about that.

I meant the "respecting of rights."

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Japanese restaurants often have a "Kami-Dan" ( Deity house). The "Kami" are the local Deities, DemiGods of sorts that watch over you, your business etc.. I know one Buddhist Priest who tries to promote Jesus as a Kami, a Locally Venerated Deity and includes a Statue of The Lord on his Buddhist Altar... Go figure.

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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Japanese restaurants often have a "Kami-Dan" ( Deity house). The "Kami" are the local Deities, DemiGods of sorts that watch over you, your business etc.. I know one Buddhist Priest who tries to promote Jesus as a Kami, a Locally Venerated Deity and includes a Statue of The Lord on his Buddhist Altar... Go figure.

That's a not-so-rare Hindu practice, too.

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Buddha - What would you do if there was a Buddha in a Chinese Restaurant?

Not order from the right side of the menu............

My nephew who is a practicing Buddhist has a Buddhist shrine in his home. We sometimes have dinner at his house and it simply doesnt bother me at all.

you amaze me. Your son is a buddhist and you are cool with it? I rarely see that from a christian. However I would be cool too. Everyone has rights, and if we want them to respect ours, we need to respect theirs.

I wouldn't worry. I mean heck, if Buddha were Orthodox he would probably be a Saint. And I do seldomnly believe that Siddhartha is in Orthodox Heaven right now hearing intercessions.

buddha lived many many years before christ. How could he be an orthodox? and buddha talks about nirvana. Jesus talked about paradise. Now just because I disagree with many traditional things regarding christianity, doesn't mean I find mixing religions to be a healthy thing. I don't believe in nothingness which is buddhas nirvana. I believe in Heaven.

I wouldn't worry. I mean heck, if Buddha were Orthodox he would probably be a Saint. And I do seldomnly believe that Siddhartha is in Orthodox Heaven right now hearing intercessions.

buddha lived many many years before christ. How could he be an orthodox? and buddha talks about nirvana. Jesus talked about paradise. Now just because I disagree with many traditional things regarding christianity, doesn't mean I find mixing religions to be a healthy thing.

I think James's point is that the Buddha, if he is saved, is Orthodox, not a Buddhist -- so there's no issue of "mixing religions".

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

MANILA, Philippines - Can Christians adhere to traditional Chinese practices without going against their faith? A Catholic priest of Chinese ancestry thinks so, under certain conditions.....Liao, who spent decades in Hong Kong and Taiwan for pastoral ministry, also thinks there is practical science behind feng shui, believed to attract positive life energies through the physical arrangement of one’s surroundings.

“The popularity of feng shui cannot be denied and the practice of this ‘living skill’ undoubtedly requires study, time, patience, and money. Certainly we can admit that feng shui always improves one's living condition,” Liao said.....“I often tell people [feng shui] is allowed as long as one does not exchange it for prayer and trust in the divine providence,” he said.

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.