Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

I think he was probably slightly racist towards Italian Americans too. An example would be the stereotypical portrayal of Italian Americans in Lady and the Tramp. And then he also changed the setting of Pinocchio from Italy to a more Bavarian setting in Switzerland/Austria - never knew why he did that.

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

Originally Posted by fjhuerta

Y
Let's not forget - he never rejected or segregated people on DL based on their race. He did enforce sort of a dress code, but that's quite a bit different to "you look Jewish, you can't come in to my park".

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume

I think he was probably slightly racist towards Italian Americans too. An example would be the stereotypical portrayal of Italian Americans in Lady and the Tramp. And then he also changed the setting of Pinocchio from Italy to a more Bavarian setting in Switzerland/Austria - never knew why he did that.

Please. Let's just stop with the 'racist' thing. To accuse someone of being racist is a very serious thing, IMHO. Again, Walt was a man of his time. Many ethnicities had 'stereotypes' & it was an accepted thing to use them in entertainment. We know now that doing so is hurtful and that stereotyping anyone is wrong. But judge him by the times he lived in.

And Northern Italy is rather 'alps-ish' in places. There is also a Germanic influence in some of the architecture, and many Northern Italians look more 'Teutonic' than 'Latin', with light complexions, light hair, and blue eyes. Northern Italian born model Fabio looks more 'Viking' than Italian.

And the locales have been changed in many Disney classic animated features from where they were in the original source material.

Last edited by Stormy; 01-11-2014 at 11:32 AM.

​"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

Originally Posted by Stormy

Please. Let's just stop with the 'racist' thing. Again, Walt was a man of his time. Many ethnicities had 'stereotypes' & it was an accepted thing to use them in entertainment. We know now that doing so is hurtful and that stereotyping anyone is wrong. But judge him by the times he lived in.

And Northern Italy is rather 'alps-ish' in places. There is also a Germanic influence in some of the architecture, and many Northern Italians look more 'Teutonic' than 'Latin', with light complexions, light hair, and blue eyes.

And the locations have been changed in many of the Disney classic fairy tale movies.

I don't know whether or not Walt was racist. I have no opinion on that topic. But, I have seen so many people use the "man of his times" defense for such behavior. I'm sorry, but that's really just a cop out, isn't it? Racism is racism.

"I do not like to repeat successes. I like to go on to other things." - Walt Disney

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

No it's not a cop out. It's just the way it is, or rather, was. You should judge people by the times in which they lived. It doesn't mean that what they did was right, it wasn't. It just says it was the way it was then. If someone wants to say someTHING (not someONE) was racist 'by today's standards', that's a qualification that I can accept. But to say that someone who was living by society's rules AT THAT TIME, was 'evil' or 'racist' is, IMHO, unfair. Especially if that someone died before society changed. They were never given the opportunity for changing with the changing times.

As Dr Maya Angelou says "When you know better, you do better".

​"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

"The thing that makes us different is our way of thinking, our judgement and experience acquired over the years. Giving it 'heart.' Others haven't understood the public. We developed a psychological approach to everything we do here. We seem to know when to 'tap the heart.' Others have hit the intellect. We can hit them in an emotional way. Those that appeal to the intellect only appeal to a very limited group. Let's not let the mechanics get in here and foul the whole thing." -Walt Disney

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

Originally Posted by Stormy

No it's not a cop out. It's just the way it is, or rather, was. You should judge people by the times in which they lived. It doesn't mean that what they did was right, it wasn't. It just says it was the way it was then. If someone wants to say someTHING (not someONE) was racist 'by today's standards', that's a qualification that I can accept. But to say that someone who was living by society's rules AT THAT TIME, was 'evil' or 'racist' is, IMHO, unfair. Especially if that someone died before society changed. They were never given the opportunity for changing with the changing times.

As Dr Maya Angelou says "When you know better, you do better".

I agree with this. If someone does something above and beyond the mores of the times - exhibit A, Henry Ford and the Protocols, which incited violence and murder of Jews - that's one thing. If someone lives within the attitudes of their times, as Disney did, that's another.

Yes, there were those in the 1920s - onward that did have more forward thinking on racial issues and women's rights. Unfortunately that wasn't everyone.

Disney's work did have some racial stereotypes that would be considered very objectionable now (I'm thinking of the crows in Dumbo, for instance, the Native Americans in Peter Pan or the "spooks" jokes about African-Americans in the silent films with Virginia Davis). At the time they were not considered objectionable and if you look at Disney cartoons next to some of the other cartoons and films out there at the time, you notice that he does a lot less of it than most filmmakers.

However, he did grow with the times. You see that in the fact that Disneyland was integrated from Day One, in it's a small world, and in the fact that the original Mickey Mouse Club had Italian and Mexican-Chinese cast members (none of whom were required to Anglicize their names). You see that in the fact that the 1960s Disney movies do not have those stereotypical depictions. He grew, and there's nothing that says he would not have continued to grow.

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume

I think he was probably slightly racist towards Italian Americans too. An example would be the stereotypical portrayal of Italian Americans in Lady and the Tramp. And then he also changed the setting of Pinocchio from Italy to a more Bavarian setting in Switzerland/Austria - never knew why he did that.

Jesus, was he slightly racist towards latinos too because he portrayed Brazilians as parrots and mexicans as roosters????

What's next, Walt being accused of sorcery or devil worshipping because of Sleeping Beauty and Fantasia????

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

Originally Posted by jvsett

Well - there is scientific evidence to prove that Disney was evil. I mean the evil gene occurs at approximately rate of one in every two million. As the esteemed Dr. Hibbert put it, "Well, only one in two million people has what we call the "evil gene". Hitler had it, Walt Disney had it" Source: Dr. Hibbert Quotes - TV Fanatic

i guess it just shows that business is not rainbows and b utterflies after all.

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

Originally Posted by jvsett

Well - there is scientific evidence to prove that Disney was evil. I mean the evil gene occurs at approximately rate of one in every two million. As the esteemed Dr. Hibbert put it, "Well, only one in two million people has what we call the "evil gene". Hitler had it, Walt Disney had it" Source: Dr. Hibbert Quotes - TV Fanatic

You know what's funny? I thought you were quoting a 'real' pseudo-scientist to back up the 'Walt is evil' theory so I didn't want to touch your post with a 10 foot pole! I finally googled 'Dr Hibbert' and did a face palm.

Obviously, 'The Simpsons' aren't my forte! Ha.

​"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

Originally Posted by Stormy

You know what's funny? I thought you were quoting a 'real' pseudo-scientist to back up the 'Walt is evil' theory so I didn't want to touch your post with a 10 foot pole! I finally googled 'Dr Hibbert' and did a face palm.

Obviously, 'The Simpsons' aren't my forte! Ha.

I apologize. I forget Poe's Law. But I lost the argument any way, by the collorary to Goodwin's Law....

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

Originally Posted by jvsett

I apologize. I forget Poe's Law. But I lost the argument any way, by the collorary to Goodwin's Law....

jvsett

No, no, no apology necessary. You'd think that a Mom who raised 2 sons through the '80s & '90s would recognize a Simpsons reference when she saw one, wouldn't you? But I guess the Simpsons never made it through my mom-filter, along with the usual boy-generated scatological humor and Family Guy references. LOL

​"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.​"

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

My grandfather was born in 1887--making him older than Disney. Grandpa watched Amos 'n' Andy on TV and referred to the actors as 'coons--a term I would consider blatantly racist. Yet I never witnessed Grandpa personally disrespect or mistreat anyone.

As a young adult, I had the pleasure of meeting Jester Hairston, who was born the same year as Walt Disney. In his early career as a movie and TV actor, Hairston played in stereotypical roles, including a recurring role in Amos 'n' Andy, along with uncredited parts in old Tarzan movies. As a composer/arranger, Hairston popularized many "negro spirituals", including the wildly popular Amen, which he wrote. (One of my cherished memories is of Hairston voicing the solo lines, while the rest of us sang the chorus.)

My point? Hairston and Disney, born in the same year under very different circumstances, were influenced and molded by those same circumstances. Each made indelible artistic contributions that are uplifting to the human soul. Disney is more roundly criticized than Hairston for his portrayal of stereotypes, because he is better known. I take my hat off to both, one who I never met but loved as a child, and the other I came to know through his music and later met in person.

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

Saying "Disney was a man of his time" is just a euphemism for saying he was a racist. In white 20th century America (particularly pre-civil rights), they essentially went hand and hand. This is in no way a knock on Disney, however. Please remember that racism does not have to be an active or vocalized hatred against a minority, and it can be as simple as contributing to institutionalized racism.

Re: Is Walt Disney evil?

Originally Posted by napeterson18

Please remember that racism does not have to be an active or vocalized hatred against a minority, and it can be as simple as contributing to institutionalized racism.

So what you are saying is that if a person does not yet know something is wrong, or that they are not aware of the implications of their actions for possible future generations - they are to be condemned? Then I submit that by this tainted and suspect logic that we are all racists, misogynists, and possibly heathen savages. We should obviously have the ability to see into the future with certainty to know what our future progeny think is morally and ethically wrong. Without us doing this miraculous feat we should suffer the seventh level of hell.

By this logic you are a racist. Sir - take your racist views somewhere else. How dare you not see into the future!