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You don't get anywhere by trying to carve a country into the shape you want - America should have learned that with Russia in the 1990s, and again with Iraq in the 2000s.

Instead you find an existing fault line, stick a chisel in it, smack it with a hammer and watch everything fall apart. That's been Russia's whole foreign policy against the West ever since Putin came to power.

If you're trying to change your enemy to get a specific, defined result it's extremely difficult to do and relatively easy for them to resist merely by leaning hard the other way. If your only goal is to sow chaos and confusion then it's much easier because you have many more levers to pull, and the minute your opponent reacts against one effort you can switch to supporting the extremist elements of that reaction, and try to get them to overbalance in that direction instead.

I'd never really thought of it before, but the whole approach is basically social judo - you aren't trying to kick off punch your opponent into submission, just identifying any way their stance is weak at any given moment, and using their own weight and momentum against them to put them on the floor in any way that works.

The problem now is that it is not just Russia. China and Iran have also noticed how effective Russian ops are.

China has a long history of information ops and information warfare with U.S. Their brand of cyber warfare is usually focused on spying on the government, military, commercial research, and industrial corporations. However, they are scaling up their capabilities for political ops and their threat of election interference is very real. Unfortunately, this doesn't get the same attention as Russia even though China's capabilities are on par with them.

We don't, really. Instability disproportionately hurts those who enjoy order and civilisation and structures like democracy and the rule of law. It doesn't really hurt strongman despot autocrats who rule by fear and oppression anything like as much.

Putin's primary strategy isn't to build a strong Russia - it's to tear the West down. It's a lot easier to smash things than to build anything, and turning Russia into even more of a corrupt, undemocratic failed state doesn't help anyone.

The only way to really hurt Putin's power is to either fund democratic opposition in the hope you can slowly, agonisingly build a popular desire for true democracy and the rule of law (a bit like trying to build a house of cards in a hurricane), or to find a way to drive a wedge between Putin and the oligarchs who support him and shore up his power base.

The USA was actually doing a pretty good job of that with sanctions, but then those same oligarchs decided it was just cheaper to start funneling massive amounts of dark money into the US right wing, and basically buying out the Republican party in only a few short years.

What dude above my said, and also squeeze Russia financially. Sanctions, getting them kicked out of the G-8, strengthening NATO, strengthening Russia's anti-Moscow neighbors (especially Ukraine, Poland, and the Baltics), sanctioning their athletes, formenting anti-Russian sentiment within the Orthodox Church, etc. Putin (and his supporters') gripes are that Russia is a great power and has been unfairly stymied by "the West" who want to keep it from realizing its full potential. In order to combat that, they seek to drive wedges in the west both internally and externally, as well as reducing the West's geopolitical influence.

What you do is make it clear to them that the West is wise to what they are trying and that their plausible deniability no longer works. Interference in Western affairs (election meddling, murdering dissidents, cheating at sports) by Russia will result in immediate, appreciable sanctions against companies and individuals involved in the Russian regime. Also, keeping the price of oil low will hurt them as well, since oil is a huge part of their economy right now. There are a lot of things you can do to make Russia an international pariah state, but it requires strong, decisive leadership. Trump may not be an actual Russian asset, but he's got zero reason to punish Putin.

There's a lot of frustration here in the West, and a lot of it is justified. The idea of splitting the country because of it is stupid, of course, but it does get aggravating to have so little say in how your country is run.

My first though was that this was Russian interference as well. It could be that Trump isn't even behind all of this at all. He's just a useful idiot who was baited into it by foreign influences. It could be anyone behind it really - but whoever it is - they do not have Americans safety and security in mind while doing this. They're trying to breed chaos and get even more people sick, prolonging the quarantine while more and more bodies pile up. This is horrifying.

Like you don't think (rich) Americans could possibly try to trick other Americans? Happens every day.

I'd wager it's rich Americans pulling these strings. My guess is it's coming from a company called "Crowds on Demand," because this is exactly their specialty (look them up).

There was also a slew of favorable newspaper articles about it at the same time, which is another dead giveaway it's an astroturf PR campaign.

Whoever's behind it, they're downright terrible people. Bunch of rich assholes who can afford to stay safely quarantined in their mansions, trying to get poor and working class saps to protest against their own well-being and public health.

The GoP had been doing this in earnest for 40 years. They've got better at it, thwyve torn our education system down, the divide has got bigger, the politicians more radical, the voter base more detached from reality itself.
Trump is a symptom, the Republican party is the one leading the way, their goals allign with people trying to tear the country apart. 100% Russians are fucking with us, 100% they infiltrate activist groups too. But the Gop and the entrenched authoritarian law enforcement agents are the ones driving us off the cliff. They don't and haven't ever cared about freedom, the people, the economy, or anything but authority.
We are dealing with fascists.

It’s not just republicans. Entire Bernie subs on reddit are filled to the brim with quite obvious Russian trolls (accounts that were created 2-3 years ago but didn’t start posting or commenting until a month or two ago AND they have millions in Karma, and they post only in pro-Bernie subs advocating against voting or why trump might as well get re-elected, etc.). The FBI warned that astroturfing was targeting both political groups. If we start thinking only one side is vulnerable to misinformation we become complacent about our side and think we are immune, which is how misinformation gets through.

Yup! And I'm pretty sure I have 2 Russians trolling and harassing me currently. They follow me around on Reddit and call me a dumb bitch when I say something bad about Trump. It's annoying sure, but the bigger problem is what really bothers me.

Yup, a lot of the Bernie or bust talk is being pushed by external sources. Not all mind you. But a lot of it is. Most Bernie supporters will agree that preventing trumps re-election is the bigger goal. But of those that don't, only some aren't true staunch supporters upset he will not be the candidate. I truly hope they will come around and vote for Biden and against trump. That is not a vote wasted. The rest are purposely driving a disinformation campaign to sow division in the electorate that would vote against trump.

This was all documented in the Mueller Report. I just re-read the sections earlier that talked it. And as you indicated, our intelligence agencies are aware and warning people it will happen again.

Blows my mind that we literally had an entire report get published by a Republican committee state without question that the Republican President was elected in part due to concentrated Russian misinformation tactics, and people still deny this. Just because Trump himself isn’t guilty doesn’t mean there is not interference and blatant astroturfing going on. And yes, this also includes a lot of Bernie support.

Astroturf is fake grass. Astroturfing is generating a fake grass roots movement. It's meant to look spontaneous, and representing communities across the country. In reality it's a few rich assholes using their enormous wealth to change the perception of the political landscape.

Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message or organization to make it appear as though it originates from and is supported by grassroots participants. It is a practice intended to give the statements or organizations credibility by withholding information about the source's financial connection.

China scares me way more because people seem to have the wool over the eyes instead of a mask over the face.

EDIT: odd how these movements are being called out as russian astroturfing, Yet here we are commenting on the highest upvoted post by a significant amount, outta nowhere on this sub and hours after commenting im getting replied to by all different accounts, that all happen to be downplaying china. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I don't get paid to comment like wumao so im not going to bother.

Edit 2: woke up to TWELVE more replies, few saying fuck you in more words, A normal human being and the rest were downplaying the horrible CCP.

I fear China as well. But I fear the people falling in line with China more. The thing claimed by both the left and right, types of oppression, are being carried out for real in China. We all just pass by let the CCP into our ways of life and attack the other party thinking it them. It’s not popular to stand with the POTUS now but I do to stand against the CCP

Me too. As I see on Facebook a Gates add about signing up some gates think. And Facebook sorts comments and the top one that came up some Russian name with anti vaxxer statements and people chiming in and agreeing.

It would also be a wonderful distraction from how shitty a job he did at the beginning of the whole covid situation. If it causes a jump in the death numbers, then comparatively what he did early on was "better" but the people wanted it so he had no choice but to reopen the country.

I’m not sure if the eco relics people are trying to profit off the domain names or whatever. But they said “we snapped them up cheap and wanted to get them before bad people do”. Not sure what that means or how they tie in.

Eco Relics is a building materials company in a similar vein to Habitat for Humanity Restore. They're not a typical conservative type as like the rest of Jacksonville so I'm inclined to believe they had good intentions with this cybersquatting.

I'm as Conservative as they come and even all this stuff about the quarantine has me up in arms with massive confusion.

Is it infringing on liberties: yes

Is it a violation of nearly all Constitutional and liberty-minded principles: yes

Is it a backdoor method of enforcing a police state: Not really.

Are the Democrats to blame for this: No.

Do I really have to abide by these rules: Yes, if you value your health.

I listen to and discuss things in many conservative circles. I agree with a lot of complaints that they have. But, a disease with an unknown mortality rate is not something to sneeze at. No pun intended. Neither is it some engineered social hacking to turn the public's opinion a certain direction. This is a case of both sides having valid complaints without a full picture and filling the gaps with biases and fears.

I wish people were as principled as you are. We’re in this together. Whether people admit to that fact or not. In the end some of us try to save lives And some of us try to turn it into the next battle ground. It should be a straightforward thing. the confusion starts from the top.

And both sides. The poster actually says he agrees with it despite it being against his political ideals. So there you have it, there are two sides, those who want to have the least amount of deaths, and those who don't care how many die.

Wow. I just took a quick look at reopenmd.com....This guy is using his business address but what I would guess is his home phone number (maybe another business). I'd love to hear his motive/logic as well. Is he being paid, or just a nut job in Florida?

It's his home phone number and he answered. He claims that he bought the domains for resale and that the redirects currently working are illegal. He claims that he owns hundreds of domains for this purpose and has no link to the campaigns.
Edit: He was trying to resolve the issue without involving the FBI though which was weird.

I'm not so sure... Take a look at the Eco Relics website. I think the address and name used to register these Open/MD/MN/VA is fake. After a little digging on the company, it doesn't fit. The actual person owns an architectural salvage company aimed at recycling. Seems like his information is being used as a twisted joke. Someone should let the poor guy know that his address and name are being used to register these idiot protest sites.

What the hell I know the guy and shop at eco relics. He’s a total hippy and they aren’t really a salvage company. It’s a warehouse full of antiques and furniture. I’d be more inclined to think whoever is doing all this is just linking to real businesses to appear legitimate.

The first part of the UA code (60996284 in this case) is the account ID on Google Analytics, with the second part of the code (18 and 22) being the ID of the "property" on that account (property in this instance meaning website)

So, those two websites are using the same Google Analytics account to track visitors, and there are probably three other websites (for property IDs 19, 20 and 21) - most likely the same kind of site, just a different state.

Dane County Title is listed as the registered agent for Incorp Services, Inc., in Wisconsin. Which I can't figure out why a local title company is acting as a registered agent for them. There are registered agent services in Wisconsin and Dane County Title doesn't appear to have that as a listed service on their website. Website: https://www.danecountytitle.com/

As soon as something has proof, it is no longer a conspiracy and they stop believing it. I’ve gone there a few times and a lot of people there are literally insane.

I got in one argument 2 months ago with a guy there who said the virus didn’t exist at all. Early March I replied again and he still thought it was fake. A week later I checked his account and he posted that his brother had been diagnosed with cancer, and then another week after he had deleted his account. So as soon as something becomes true they run away. Feel sorry for them cause they must have some sort of mental issue.

Hate to nitpick(lie) but as soon as a conspiracy theory gets proof, it becomes a conspiracy - well it was always a conspiracy at that point.

The case with /r/conspiracy, is its right wing bias in both moderation and user base, so conspiracy theories which harm them politically are surpressed while the beneficial ones are amplified, regardless of foundation in reality.

I’ll be honest. This sounds more a money-grabbing scam than a political conspiracy. These groups are run by four horrible people who will do anything attention-grabbing to direct people to their fake non-profits in order to make money. They don’t even have to actually organize the protests. Just get people to show up and bam. Free advertising.

I mean tbh... Republicans are literally grifting their constituents on a massive scale, so it's more like they're just following their lead. They may be a-holes, but at this point why not. Trump is doing this all day long, what's the difference.

If someone says it's not "American" to quarantine or vaccinate, you can know and prove otherwise: George Washington was convinced, over time and with mounting evidence, to vaccinate and quarantine his troops. If he didn't take those radical steps, his army may never have survived to the point where they could win the American Revolution. Were it not for cow pox inoculation we may not have the Constitution, freedoms, and protection to even question if vaccines and quarantines should be a thing.

I'm not american, but fairly liberal minded. I don't really see a conservative conspiracy here. you have an idiot group start a movement in one state, buying a domain by a name. some jackass squatter sees the name, figures "hey, other idiots might also want to start their own state group" and quickly goes to register those other domains in hope of making a quick buck selling them to the idiots.

similarly, the protesters are idiots so they see a group of stupid on facebook saying everything they want their idiot collective to say, and instead of doing actual effort they just copypaste it with a find replace of the state name.

There's an imperial ton of astroturfing going on, and it's quite visible in how those groups popped up literally overnight (hint-hint). The thing is that they targeted groups who were... how does one say... more receptive to the message who wouldn't be inclined to look any deeper into what they were joining.

The rest of the whois information is obscured by a proxy organization that provides privacy for whois records (I even use them myself as do many others for privacy reasons), so I cannot tell who owns these domains.

Following the pattern of their sites, I checked for "reopenmd.com", but it never resolved to anything. That said, the DNS lookup itself didn't result in a NXDOMAIN error which tells me the domain does exist.

Registered a little more than week later with the same registrar. The thing is, they didn't actually complete their whois information this time, and whoever set it up cheaped out or forgot to pay for the Domains by Proxy service. Although whois information is literally a public record, I'm not inclined to place my account at risk by opening myself up to accusations of doxxing. That said, anyone who feels inclined to can go to https://whois.godaddy.com and search for reopenmd.com. I myself would be personally curious as to why someone in Florida is registering domains claiming to be gun rights organizations in other states.

Seriously, even without that information - who or whomever is responsible for this astroturfing couldn't make this more obvious if they tried. It honestly took me longer to type all of this up to present here than it did for me to find this all. Yet people have taken the bait hook-line-and-sinker.

Edit 2: Apparently, others have found that a domain for pretty much every other state was registered in the same pattern at the same time.

Edit 3: Holy crap, this blew up! Thanks! I really just have a strong dislike for disinformation, and want people to be empowered to know who is involved with what; and I also want people to know to always apply critical thinking to these things.

Just quoting in case you ever need to delete your account and I have to reference this some day. Thanks Dr_Midnight. This was a very important post.

I know it’s tempting to think Russia conspiracy here, but more likely that it’s a small digital shop in DC/Arlington/Alexandria that’s on retainer from some Trump-aligned group and some developer with questionable morals had to crank out all these sites in a few days.

The vast majority of these domains are registered by an individual in Florida who appears to be squatting. The ones registered to the LLC in Arizona are likely the result of at least two separate campaigns, but one of them appears pretty sophisticated.

I would just like to add that Huntington beach does not represent Los Angeles and is not a part of it. It's a good hour of a drive southwards and is a part of Orange country, which has traditionally been way more Republican than LA.

Not to distract from the seemingly sincere protests, and 'grassroots' organisation.

This is the trouble im having with the internet these days, its so so so easy to hide malicious intent behind happenstance, innocent profiteering, or thinly veiled dogwhistle/did it as a joke.

I feel like its made worse by reactionary outrage for profit, in both true grassroots campaigns and media outlets.

The waters are so muddied now, its hard to imagine we can look back at this shit, like we do at 1800's snakeoil adverts in newspapers, and sat i cant believe people fell for that, how gullible were our forefathers.

This is quite possibly the single best Reddit comment I have ever witnessed. Thanks for doing the research. However obvious it may have seemed to you that this is astroturfing, this evidence makes it irrefutable and much harder to cover up.

The Jacksonville, FL address in question belongs to a company that is offering to sterilize n95 face masks ... by leasing his machines to hospitals which cost $139,000 each “[b]ecause Eco Relics has been hard hit economically by the coronavirus pandemic.”

Just found out something similar is going on with r LockdownSkepticism. It has a ton of posts with few subscribers and the top posts are all accounts with little to no post history. The top post right now is from an account that has 4 hour post history.