Darche on dynamics of CBA talks, his future in hockey

Former Canadiens forward Mathieu Darche has been playing a key role in the NHLPA’s talks with the NHL in a bid to produce a new collective bargaining agreement, the current CBA expiring on Sept. 15. Without a new deal in place, it’s likely the NHL will lock out the players and create a work stoppage that will postpone the start of training camps and who knows how much of the 2012-13 season.

Two pieces on Darche, an unrestricted free agent who was cut loose by the Habs after spending three seasons with his hometown team:

And below, Darche on his own future and how he’s spent his summer, training to be ready for a contract offer he hopes will soon come:

DAVE STUBBSThe Gazette

Better than many NHL players, veteran Mathieu Darche thoroughly understands the landscape of his league. And that’s why he’s not entirely surprised that he remains a still-unsigned unrestricted free agent two months after being cut loose by his hometown Canadiens.

“Once I didn’t (sign somewhere) in the first week or so, I kind of got the sense that it would happen after the new CBA got done,” said Darche, a deeply involved member of the NHLPA committee that is talking – sometimes – with the NHL in a bid to produce a new collective bargaining agreement.

“Teams are waiting,” he said. “I have a friend in management (with an NHL team) who told me, ‘Unless something out of this world comes up, we’re not going to do anything until there’s a new CBA.’

“I talked with some teams in early July and came close with one. For some reason it didn’t work out. I wish I’d been signed right away but then again, it’s nothing I can control. (Fellow UFAs) Brendan Morrison, Jason Arnott and Dominic Moore are still unsigned. I’ve looked at rosters and there are still spots on a few. We’ll see what the future brings.”

In as many words, Darche was told by the Canadiens in late June that he was unwanted after having spent the past three seasons in Montreal.

The Habs pretty much made the 35-year-old an offer he had no choice but to refuse – a two-way deal that, should he keep a Canadiens roster spot, would pay him less than the $700,000 he earned last year.

If Darche was the victim of a numbers game and wound up demoted to the farm in Hamilton, he would earn the maximum $105,000 that his situation dictates.

Supporting his wife, Stéphanie, who is back at school completing her Master’s degree in international business, and their sons Samuel, 9, and Benjamin, 7, Darche wasn’t prepared to roll the dice and perhaps wind up down Highway 401 away from his family, renting a second home, riding minor-league buses and earning a fraction of what he did last season.

A popular, thoughtful, fluently bilingual member of the Canadiens who figured largely in the team’s community charity programs, Darche was and remains deeply saddened by his quiet exit from the team he worshipped as a boy.

Especially painful is the fact the native of St. Laurent was sidelined the final 21 games of last season with a concussion that he originally believed was an ear infection. With that extra time to heal and a full summer to train, Darche says he’s in terrific shape and eager to contribute should an NHL offer come his way.

“I hope I’m still playing,” he said. “I feel great training – I’ll be on the ice every day this week – and I feel as good physically as I have in a bunch of years.

“Because our season ended so early and I didn’t play the last month and a half, all the aches and pains are gone. That’s why I’m so disappointed to not get a chance to come back (to the Canadiens). With the miserable season we had in Montreal last year, there’s now a sense of optimism.

“But hey, it’s a decision they made. I’m still confident I’ll play somewhere. Is it guaranteed 100 per cent? Of course not. But I don’t regret my decision one bit (to reject the Canadiens offer). I don’t consider myself too good for the AHL by any means, but I’ve done my time there.”

No moss has grown under Darche’s feet this summer. He and Stéphanie celebrated their 10th anniversary with a trip to Italy in May, he entertained a visit from his brother, Jean-Philippe, the family spent time at a friend’s home on an island in the middle of Lake Placid, together they took in a variety of sports events in Montreal and he was a chaperone – helpfully volunteered by Stéphanie – for Sam’s week-long trip to the Tadoussac region for whale-watching and adventures in the great outdoors.

“Forty-five third-graders,” Darche said, laughing. “The kids had a blast but up at 5 a.m. the first morning I was thinking, ‘My God, what have I gotten myself into?’

“You get spoiled with (NHL) travel. On this trip we were in bunk beds in a shack. I joked with my wife by text, ‘Is there anything below a one-star hotel?’ ”

Then there were the too-short days of a father running two multisport sons to their practices and games. Ben was playing soccer three days a week, Darche is coaching Sam’s football team, and of course hockey was part of the schedule, too.

He won’t soon hear the end of the good-natured heckling from fellow parents after his boy’s first career touchdown.

“Sam caught a pass on a nice post down the middle and ran it in from 40 yards,” Darche said. “I ran the whole way with him, down the sidelines.”

Beyond the sometimes frantic family life was Darche’s work with the NHLPA’s negotiating committee and travel to Toronto and New York for meetings as the players and league try to hammer out a new deal.

Darche has done plenty of interviews about the process, and he understands that, in many ways, he’ll never win in the court of public opinion.

“People look at it like it’s billionaires fighting with millionaires and I keep saying I missed the millionaire train,” he said, laughing again. “I can see how people say both sides are spoiled. People can say, ‘I work 80 hours a week at the factory and I don’t make what you guys are making.’ It’s not as simple as that because hockey is a totally different industry.

“If you work in a factory, and by no means am I degrading what you do, you’re the employee. In hockey, you’re the employee and the product.

“If there’s a lockout, I’ll feel bad for the ushers in the Bell Centre, people like that. For some of them, hockey is a second job to make ends meet. There are no easy explanations. We can say we’re sorry as much as we can and those people won’t understand. If I were them, I’d probably be the same way.

“You can’t compare hockey to any industry but to the sports industry. I get many (negative) comments on Twitter and I don’t even start arguing because I’m in a no-win situation.

“Say we take a 20-per-cent pay cut. Tell Vinnie Lecavalier his $10 million will go down to $8 million. ‘Poor him,’ people might say. But the point is, he’s got a contract that was agreed to by both sides and he’s still losing $2 million.

“If the league is doing so well that we want a pay increase, they’ll say, ‘No way, this is a contract we agreed to.’ It should be the same the other way. We don’t mind in a way restricting our growth to help the league, but why should we go back on what we’ve already agreed to? Nobody forced (owners) to give out these contracts.”

For now, Darche will continue to juggle the duties of being an integral member of a negotiating committee while bargaining with his wife about who drives which son to the soccer field, gridiron or hockey arena.

And as summer soon yields to fall, as Darche hopes the phone will ring with an offer to resume his NHL career, he will enjoy the fact there’s no salary cap, no rollback or no escrow on the grass and ice of the very minor leagues.

So we’re eccentric old men are we?
Based on your belittling of Ian yesterday, and his perceptive observations of the military families of Quebec having fought in wars along side other Canadians, and your reaction as basically being “meh” (I believe that’s the educated term you used), I get the feeling that empathy is not one of your strong character traits.

I don’t see how I belittled Ian at all yesterday, except to say that I don’t feel Canadian warfighting and Quebec separation are as related as others believe they are. When I asked politely for *anyone* to expound on their views for my own education, I got a chorus of “learn your history, idiot!”

I am far from ignorant of the history of the CF & Canada’s military, let me assure you.

So yes, you eccentric old men could have tried to communicate whatever wisdom it was that you believe ought to guide events. Instead, you got your undies in a knot because someone didn’t automatically see the intrinsic essential necessity of Quebec staying in Canada.

Thus, I repeat, you codgers sure get excitable without anyone else to demonize. And I’ll add, with irritation, that it’s the old codgers that automatically assume that a disagreement is always due to the other party’s ignorance. That’s what happens when you discuss solely with people who agree with you from the start. It’s what the kids are calling a circle-jerk, and it hates any kind of dissenting opinion. Meh.

A new morning and nope… still don’t give a crap who won Quebec’s election. Still hate the fact that they hire Therrien though. How are you, my Quebec based people doing? Making moving plans yet? Hey, northern Alberta has a lot of land and it’s not that expensive.

Hey Timo. We’re still alive, the fridge is still full, and I’m still working. As for real estate, my bro-in-law works in N. Alberta and I’m told that it’s ridiculously expensive.
So I think, for now, I’ll keep my modest home and my meagre earnings.

Lots of jobs (that pay well), lots of people, very few houses (especially in the boom in 2006).

Most people I know live elsewhere and live in camp when they are working (shift work). I love taking planes out of Ft. Mac during shift change. Nothing like sitting in a suit and tie with a bunch of roughnecks who are just itching to get in to trouble… dry camps must suck!

Real estate is cheap if you pick a small town just north or south of edmonton (wetaskawin for example) but then you have to live in a small town near edmonton… blah!

The only places that are ridiculously expensive are Calgary (and surrounding area), Edmonton, and Fort MacKenzie… but there is absolutely no reason to live anywhere further north than Airdrie (10 minutes north of Calgary).

If your not heading west towards the mountains, the rest of the province is cheap…. you know why? because there is no reason to live there. The weather sucks and jobs are limited to the the big Cities and Oil patch.

So unless you get a job in Calgary or Edmonton (or Ft. Mac if that is your thing), or you have money for a mountain view ranch, stay in Quebec, you have better breweries!

Mind you, Calgary has been reported to be one of the most affordable cities in Canada as far as real estate goes. Sure, there are crazy expensive houses, but overall, if you don’t mind commute, you can get very decent piece of real estate for under 1/2 mil. I looked at prices in Mtl when I was there in October… places like Bois Franc, for example, are more expensive then a lot of areas in Calgary.

Leaving politics aside now.
Darche was a good player for the Habs in the past 3 seasons, he established himself as a good penalty killer and he could pot in goals with enough frequency. He was often put in difficult spot, playing tough minutes and he was always a voice of calm and reason while also being articulate.
With the infusion of youth and him being 35 now, this role player found himself without a clear established spot on the roster, and that was reflected in the 2-way deal he got. I think it’s a fair decision for the team, but I sure hope he can find work on a one way deal elsewhere.

I agree.
I also find it amusing that it is often said on here that he’s not a professional hockey player. Or not of the calibre.
Well, he certainly managed to make it. Which is more than I can say for almost everyone who posts here.

Keeping politics in the conversation, it was also suggested last year that he was a good median for JM to find out what the room was saying. I liked Darche’s work ethic, but would rather have White or Blunden on my 4th line. A 4th line needs to be able to change the energy of the game, provide some impactful forechecking with hits giving the other teams Dmen something to think about.

I believe the team made a sound decision to offer him a twoway contract. Perhaps a Wpg.type team may offer him a contract.

White and Blunden are better suited for our 4th line right now, but in the case of injury, I would rather bump up a Mathieu Darche in my lineup than a White or Blunden. Darche has always had good 4th line numbers and could step it up when needed.
Prust and Armstrong being the likely candidates for that bump up in case of injury, Darche became expandable.

I chuckled a bit in the article when it mentions that Darche has to look out for his kids and wife who is in school. I don’t feel bad for the guy….he made 700 k last year. He should be debt & mortgage free in his early in his thirties…

I understand why he didn’t sign back with Montreal as he would most likely be a bulldog and the pay wouldn’t justify the opportunity to play with another team.

I like Darche but he just doesn’t have the skills or production to warrant him staying with the habs.

I wish him all the best and hope he catches on with a young team where he could mentor

And I hope this then will force real negotiations to begin. There is no way that many of the Power Owners in this league want a lockout. Once Bettman asks for this, it will make the owners have to actually get off their asses and start making decisions. Fireworks then ensue and we see which owners want what. They are a divided group.

Wow with all the political dynamite in the air these days, sure would be nice if we had the distraction of just regular NHL hockey about to start. Heck, I think I could even read a line combination right now and refrain from the classic “needs tweaking ™ ”

Seems no one is happy about last night’s result, at best some are trying to rationalize, but with the shooting, nothing can really put a good spin on the night.
I always feel like politics and politicians are a necessary evil, maybe I’m just too young, but I have never felt a political change to be uplifting or a political leader to be a great leader of men and a doer of good things. It’s always compromise, the lesser of evils and resignation. It also seems to bring out the worst in people, racism and bigotry and religious agendas.
But for all this, I still love my country and I love Québec just a tad bit more, what with being born and raised here, it’s always going to be closer to heart. So I guess I’m not saying much here, but I do hope none of you anglophone really are thinking of moving, and for the outsiders, I hope you realize that overall, Québec is a nice place with decent people.

There are stupid drunks everywhere though, but that video got alot of media play and it is damaging to Quebec’s image.
As for moving, well I’m glad you feel that way, I just dislike how divisive the issues Quebec is facing.

That video went viral as soon as it was posted.
And just as Shiram said, it wasn’t too flattering for Quebecers in general.
But if we look beyond that, it’s just one ranter with a narrow-minded perspective.
Take it at face value.
At least he didn’t go into a political headquarter to shoot anyone.
The world is full of idiots!

I’d like to be a fly in the corner when he vacations in South East Asia, and gets confronted by locals insisting that he speak a language which he doesn’t understand. Perhaps then, he’ll adopt a sense of empathy and respect for those who are different from him.

Is it really just one drunk? I shop at CANADIAN tire and there’s this one cashier that refuses to speak English. As far as I’m concerned, anybody that works with the public MUST be able to speak the two official languages of Canada. There are ignorant a-holes on both sides. Some are more open about it.

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Ka is a wheel.

NHLPA vs The NHL: “Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right” – Stealers Wheel

You should complain about Canadian Tire, not about the one cashier, there is also a clear difference between a belligerent drunk and a cashier that might simply not know english.
Also good luck getting french speaking people in public workplace outside Québec, I know some places in the Maritimes and in Ontario are better about it, but if you wanna flaunt the billingual thing, it should apply to all the country.

I hear you.
Our polling station yesterday was at the Elementary School that both of my kids went to.
And the usher there refused to instruct people in english, even though one could tell that everyone in line was english.
So I politely pointed out to her that it might be a good idea to address everyone in both languages, and she blew me off.
Like I said, there are yahoos everywhere. It’s better to let it go.
They’re not worth my time or effort.

“there is also a clear difference between a belligerent drunk and a cashier that might simply not know english.”

Yup, the drunk person is pouring his heart out by telling those Asians how he really feels. The Cashier that can speak English (I heard her speak it) is being petty and vindictive towards Anglophones.

As for getting people working with the public to speak French. I agree, there should be more accommodation towards the two official languages of Canada.
Take Sudbury for instance. They are fully bilingual there. If a small area like Sudbury can do it, why can’t we?

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Ka is a wheel.

NHLPA vs The NHL: “Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right” – Stealers Wheel

Well folks, on a slow hockey day where the KHL is making arrangements to score some NHL talent to fill their stands (gotta love the pure entrepreneurial spirit of the Russian league, save for the transportation issues!), I have to jump into the political discussion.
I left Montreal in 1993 because I couldn’t stand the self-inflicting wounds that separatist politicians and supporters insisted on pursuing for some idealist dream of being an independent country. I saw how the derogatory terms of “anglophone” and even worse “allophone” became mainstream and basic rights of tax-payers were being stripped away using the euphemism of protecting the French language.
What has transpired is the only population in North America (besides the First Nations and other minority immigrants of course) that has become institutionally, legally and practically discriminated against. To suggest that a unilingual PQ leader gives a rats a.s about a minority English population or any immigrant population simply because they speak French is ridiculous as well, since they wouldn’t be “pur laine” which is what I experienced despite being perfectly trilingual (English, French and Quebecois).
Having lived in the United States for the last 20 years, I can say that I miss the “joie de vivre” that existed in Montreal and Quebec in general. I love the food, the festivals, the ability to speak multiple languages and the support of student education of Quebec, but the vitriol and desire to become a racist, xenophobic, despotic independent country was too much for me to bear when I was being repudiated for being English. When people I’d meet on the street seemed to get more cocky and defiant if I would utter a single English word. Frankly, the dumbing down of Quebec as a culture and community by excluding any outside influence to the point that Americans don’t like visiting Quebec because they are insulted by these same unilingual, provincial twits (thereby significantly reducing Quebec’s tourist industry, potential for business from outside sources all in the name of protecting the French language… remember the “Smoked Meat’ brouhaha of 20 years ago) was what drove me to leave and lament that it is still continuing today.
My hope that the society would be a truly inclusive multilingual, educated, enjoyable province in a moderate, kind hearted country like Canada seems to be just a dream as hard-line, hate spewing separatists seem to have a core of support that will never abate. Despite recognizing that calm and security supports growth and goodwill for people who just want to feed, cloth, educate and love their families, it seems Quebec will continue to lurch back and forth between federalist pretenders (wanting power and money like the huge disappointment Charest) and promises of PQ leaders pandering to baseless fears of a minority of separatists, who don’t even know how difficult life will be for decades if Canada and the population that supports the transfer payments from Canada and the insults they frequently hear finally says; “we’re done with you and your 7 million people of complainers, whiners and welfare rolls. Goodbye and oh by the way, the bill for supporting you is $100 billion Canadian dollars. Got any of it?”
OK, I said it. I’m bitter that I felt the need to leave to keep my sanity and I still get angry when I see this moron Marois hop-scotch back and forth to keep the hard-core happy by lynching English anything and pandering to the naive minorities in Quebec by promising them that it won’t hurt… much. Let’s hope hockey comes back soon, since we’ll all need a destruction from the inevitable BS that will continue to destroy all the good stuff that exists in Quebec.

Promote the Youth, Support From The Veterans and Remember the Heritage!

Wow, you left Quebec for the States? Have you really looked at the choice of politicians you have there? They could not agree to cut the deficit (not the debt or overall expenditures, only the deficit) by 3%. If you don’t like pandering fickle politicians, I wonder why you went to live in the world’s leader in that respect. If you’re not for all-out arming, then you’re a pro-terrorist pinko commie and if you don’t want to pass every entitlement possible, then you’re a right-wing fascist. I know a fair number of centrists in the US who are discouraged by this stupid two-party-polarized-to-the-hilt situation.

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Me skull and crossbones arn’t the only thing I plan on raisin’ tonight.

Great post.
I live in Europe now, but Montreal is the only place in North america I could live. Wonderful city.
Anglos have far more rights than culturual minorities over here, and far more rights than cultural minorities in North america. Experience the lip the Flemish and the Wallonians give each other on a daily basis, or the Catalans and the Castilians, or the native population of any country towards immigrants in general, and you would be embarrassed to mention what you hold to be discrimination or agressive behavior. Discrimination in Canada is nothing compared to what you find in Europe. Canadians or ex-Montrealers have no idea how good they have/had it and it is sad that they uprooted their whole life because of their belief in this fallacy.
If any founding culture from Europe were transplanted from Europe to Quebec, they would have separated from Canada long ago.
the demands of most french canadians (i am not speaking about extremists) are the most understandable demands one could possibly envision, and yet they are derided for it by a large proportion of Anglophones because the latter used to control just about everything, and can´t get over their loss. And P.S. I am a born and bred anglophone.

Ah Rhino… I’ve heard that argument before, but Montreal Anglos have had their rights stripped from them over time while the European minorities never had any and are fighting for them fro centuries. having laws passed by the seperatists in the name of protecting their language is a farce since it supports the xenophobia and racism that grows from just English as it isn’t just the English that the hard-core discrimination is directed at. It is Jewish people, it is non-Catholics and as a student of history and political science, I’ll remind you that the vast majority of conflict was started and is fought over religious grounds. So while I agree with you that European racism is far more ingrained than in North America, owing to the lack of history here for the most part, to simply say the French have a right to restrict the use of English, have the right to collect taxes from what was once a 40% minority of more in Montreal and the engine of Canada’s economy to restict services to “anglos” in their own country is preposterous and not just a little bit apologetic and that opinion is not shared by most anglos. It is like the British posturing now to hole out a higher sense of morality because of their colonial sins from the past. How long does a culture have to carry their sins forward now? Millenia? SO the anglo population in Quebec is being blamed for the oppression of the French population since the French defeat and abandonment on the Plains of Abraham? it’s all a head-shaker to me, but the bottom line is the clowns who were elected on all sides (think Jacques Parizeau who wanted to build a monument to himself in Quebec city). It is simply an excuse to pillage in modern times, the coffers of the province in the name of setting straight or retribution for the sins of the past and the current population suffers from reduced growth, lowered real-estate, conflict, acrimony, etc…
I like you call Montreal home but lament this continuous bickering.

Promote the Youth, Support From The Veterans and Remember the Heritage!

Absolument! C’est vrai, le choix des idiots dans L’Etats Unis entre Mitt et Barak est vraiment une choix deprimant. This contry has gone to hell since 1993. Key differences though, are that minorities, for better or worse, have a voice and the PC nature of US politics would never let a law pass outlawing a language on signage, dis-enfranchising people, especially those that are citizens. There is good and bad in very country and I know we, in North America are very fortunate. I just lament the fact, and this is fact, that a government can pass to applause and support, reduction in rights for it’s citizens. Kinda makes me think of the middle east where women are veiled, can’t drive, can’t divorce, etc… I know there are a minority on both sides that would love to see this happen to the other, but I shake my head about the majority in the middle that just stay quiet.
As to JCC10, we all “know” people that have gone to Quebec City and not to my surprise, in that enclave I have rarely heard about a visitor being berated for not speaking French. In Montreal, it is a little different, likely because of the sense of security and realization that tourism is a major revenue base for QC and less so for Montreal. I always (yes, an absolute) laugh when I see adds for Quebec in US media where they almost always miss the mark and spend more money on advertising in Quebec for tourism. If the message was tweaked just a little and more effort was made to welcome people into the province as opposed to immediately lay the rules about not being able to speak French at work (just think about Bombardier), send your kids to school in English, etc… then you will understand why tourists don’t flock to what is otherwise a gastronomic, history filled, wonderful province filled with natural wonders, resources and for the most part, people who love life.
I do appreciate the sarcasm though!

Promote the Youth, Support From The Veterans and Remember the Heritage!

Agreed. See my post below. I’ve been crying into my beer over Romney vs. Obama as well as Marois. I mean really? Over 30% of he electorate voted for her? That is worse than voting for Sarah Palin! Now that woulda been fun ARRRRRRR! Captain!

Promote the Youth, Support From The Veterans and Remember the Heritage!

Many here may squeal “oh God No!” but when polled last night on the question of who will best speak for Canada if the Quebec election results become a springboard for the separatists…. guess which name was front and centre.

Morning to all!
You’ll notice I left out the “Good”.
So now we start a new chapter of a very old novel.
With an old writer who only uses one font. Thankfully, she doesn’t have full control of the keyboard, otherwise she’d be throwing the minorities to the dogs.
That being said, some a**hole shot and killed and injured poor innocent partisans, all with a rant claiming that “the english are waking up”.
Well I’ve got news for you, you psycho freak!
We’ve been awake for a long time and have dealt with mild fascism with the separatists for a long time. And we condemn what you did!
Whether the governing party has been left or right wing, or straddled the conservative, socialist or liberal lines, we’ve always remembered that we live in a democracy, and it’s every citizen’s right to vote for whomever he/she sees fit. And whether we win or lose, we accept it with dignity and grace, knowing that we’ll be here to fight again, when needed.
Like in hockey, when the final bell sounds and the opposing teams lifts the cup, we fans still acknowledge the loss with grace, because that’s what a civilized society does.
What that idiot did goes counter to those beliefs.
I just hope that the french extremists remember that not only does he represents a minuscule percentage of the scum of the earth, but we acknowledge that we will sit across from them at the bargaining table, and we hope that (our egos aside) we will be able to work together, for the betterment of this country.
Which country will depend on who’s perspective.
Now that politics is settled, and the world continues to turn, it’s time to talk shop, and the two issues that are bugging me:
The CBA and Subban’s contract!
As is said so often on this great site of ours, “Let’s get it done!”

And a great day to all my fellow Canadians!
(Ahhhh that felt good! I feel like P.E. Trudeau!)

I remember the vigour of my family and the people in my circle of friends to stand up and fight for Canada in 1980. I remember my grown boy and girl highly engaged in 1995. Today, we just go about our business.

Mathieu Darche is a very likeable player, because of the determination he had in having cobbled a successful professional hockey career. Of course, there have been numerous individuals with similar achievement but Mathieu was a Hab! I believe he played more NHL games with the Canadiens than with the Lightning. To have put in time with the Bulldogs at age 32, and through sheer hard work make the parent club is laudable. He is like Josh Gorges but with slightly less natural ability.

During this era, and for the foreseeable future, it was a 100% certainty that governance of Quebec was going to be in the hands of a separatist party in a cyclical fashion; it is the will of the electorate albeit with a 33% popular vote. Perhaps this vote was strongly influenced by the dismay many felt with the corruption that seemed rampant with the incumbents. The ties that bind are stronger than the forces that divide. Reason over passion (P.E.T.).

Woah there Ian…I live in Quebec and there’s not enough traction for separation for them to do it. Civil War? Don’t think so.

Politicians want one thing and that’s to be in power. There’s a reason why Marois stays away from the separation issue and it isn’t because she will spring it on people in a surprise move. It’s because she knows that there is no majority will to go that way right now and in the meantime she’d like to be in power to stroke her political ego. In 1976, all of the PQ thought separation was just around the corner and now, almost 40 years later, that crew has all but left the building with their hopes dashed…no wonder they’re all so bitter.

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Me skull and crossbones arn’t the only thing I plan on raisin’ tonight.

The vote was 33% to 32%……I work and play softball with francophones, some are “soverignists”and I am convinced that a LARGE majority of people (English or French) don’t want a referendum or separation.

Its a minority government..been there, done that before…as much as I can’t stand to look at Marois……sometimes change is good.

I agree 100%.
A very large portion of my customer base is francophone.
From Gatineau to Gaspé, and many are obviously members of the P.Q. and have a separatist edge. This can be seen through their naivety when they ask how an “anglophone” (because my name is english) can speak french as fluently as they do.
But few, if any, are radicals, and the only ones who truly beat the separatist drum work in the media.
For the rest of us, it’s mostly business as usual.

PQ’s gained 5 seats from last election (not the huge gains predicted on CBC), CAQ gained 10 seats, Libs lost 16 seats. PQ’s can do virtually nothing and be deafeted by the CAQ and Libs. PQ’s will never even get to pass a budget. Another election in a year except if CAQ and Libs form a coalition.

Ian, I share your feeling of depsair and sorrow for the prospects for the Canadian covenant bequeathed to us by all the people who have fought for this land. But I have to put my faith on the citizens of Quebec to pull us through this Ian.

I just cannot let that comment go without saying anything mr. Ian. I do have a lot of respect for you and our views on hockey are very close i appreciate it a lot but on this issue you are really wrong and i find that those are the kind of comments that do not help things to get better.

I do understand the despair for those who took offense with the referendums in the past but if you listen to the french population correctly you would hear a majority not wanting any more constitutional debate when at the same time in the anglophone community you get lots of extreme comments like yours. Just read the first messages left on here yesterday ans you will soon understand how disgusting some are.

I think that your comment about civil war is as foolish as saying today that all anglo quebecers are killers. Mostly those are dangerous words that we must not use cause it does not help in any way the situation . What really bugs me is that we both and all want the same thing and think alike but cannot use the proper ways to say it.

We must remember if we believe in the political system in place that we the people decided yesterday`s results as we did 5 years ago for the liberals.

Darche is such an ambassador for the game and heart-and-soul player on the ice. If only every player give it 100% like Darche did/does. Here’s hoping he lands on his feet, even if it’s not with the Habs.

On a side note, does anyone know if there’s a way to be notified if/when someone replies to a comment?

I know Darche gets a lot of love on this site but I guess I’m in the minority. Agree he seemed like a hard worker but the guy was not a NHL caliber player. As far as an ambassador for the game, not sure I can agree with that either.
As to your other question there is no mechnized method of seeing when someone replies to a post. Good idea though. That plus the ignore button would be nice. Have a good day.

1) Marois will be immediately disputed as the Leader for not delivering a majority. she was actually already disputed and it’ll get worse. I think this situation will last for a couple of years, then there will be another election and Marois will be out. I suspect she will be replaced by a much younger leader who’ll be far more separatist, which will polarize voters far more and be bad for the PQ as I don’t think the population wants separation. It’ll be especially bad news for the PQ if Quebec Solidaire continues to build and split the vote from the left even more. The PQ is now too separatist for centrists and not enough for leftists, and that ain’t good.

2) If I’m a University Dean, I’m getting nervous because now student protesters will think they can do as they please and I doubt the PQ will want to come down hard on them immediately after begging for their votes. Leo Bureau-Blouin, former student leader and now PQ member will be in a tight spot. I’ll bet he’ll be suddenly very busy with his studies. I think the Deans will bring in security to maintain order. The PQ will meekly protest this but will let it go.

3) If you’re the PQ and the CAQ, you have to be disappointed that the Liberals, after so many allegations of corruption and so many bad decisions over the years, still almost pulled off a minority win. It may be as big an indication that Quebecers are centrists as you’ll ever get.
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Me skull and crossbones arn’t the only thing I plan on raisin’ tonight.

If you’re the dean of McGill (actually we have a President) this is just another step in the continued decline of a once-great institution. The resentment amongst Quebec nationalists that McGill was head and shoulders the best university in Quebec led to the bright idea of bringing it down to the level of the others. It’s worked to a certain extent.

But it hasn’t changed the fact that no one in the civilized world has heard of Laval University and Sherbrooke. And very few have heard of Université de Montreal.

I am speaking as a parent whose daughter did her Masters at McGill. Sadly that institution has indeed lost some of its standing and even University of Ottawa has surpassed McGill in some disciplines for which McGill was long esteemed.

Regarding the quebec student protests over tuition. What if the students are right? What if cheap or free higher education is actually the best way to go? There are many and much worse things a government can invest its money into.

a 50/50 split would be more fair for the taxpayers. It is presently 84/16. The students benefit from an education that can see them leave and earn money elsewhere. Why should a Quebec taxpayer pay 84% of the tuition for someone who is going to live in Alberta?

In that vain, everything in life costs something. To just give away free education does not guarantee results. The key is for the student to value this education and take it seriously. When the education is virtually free how valued will the student take it.

As an example, how often do we read about High end athletes in the U.S. on full scholarships never attend class, take it serious etc…. Because there is no cost to them, they don’t give a rats ass about this education. I realize this is a generalization, but I hope you get my point.

My theory, coming from a resource based economy (Nova Scotia) is that we should make kids work for their University/College educations. Have a system set up similar to the forced two years of military service in some European countries, where I go out and fish or work in the woods for a couple years, then I get my education taken care of.

The Province would be the “company” in control of making the money off of the resource, which would pay for the education component of this plan, plus tax. In just a generation we’d have moved away from a huge portion of the population relying on a seasonal resource based economy because we’d mostly all be well educated, well trained professionals, filling jobs in the new, higher earning sectors that would flourish in a province that is set up for them to succeed.

As for the Quebec student strike, I support them. I don’t think it is entitlement, I think it is the polar opposite. They are fighting to maintain a system that they believe in and appreciate. If we want Canada to keep maturing as a nation, we need more young people to buy into taking a stand.

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Lost a bottle of Kraken during this debacle of a season. Better gettem next year.

Conceptually you bring up an interesting question. But it is my understanding that Quebec already has the lowest cost tuitions in Canada.

From a personal perspective, I attended a private University in the late 80’s which at the time cost me about quadruple from what it would have been at either UBC or Univ. of Manitoba. However, I wanted to go to this Univ. I wanted to take the programs I took and the schooling was taken with an intention to get working in a specific field ASAP upon graduation. (My student Loans were huge, it took me years to pay off, but it was worth it)

My problem today is how many young students are going to University to “find” themselves or what it is they want to become. Perhaps more young students should try small college first to get an idea of what they want to take. Personally, I think our Country as a whole has done a terrible job of marketing the career which a young person can have in a trade. Seems to me a great deal of young people think attending Univ. will lead to some high paying job with less work involved.

I see the shortage in Ontario of so many different trades people and the wages paid can be very rewarding, along with the long term marketability of this individual.

When one looks at what occupations most of those key immigrants were in the 1940’s through 1970’s we had many skilled labourers arrive in this great country and provide incredible work ethic and prsoperity to the country. Now most people just want their Univ. Degree.

Both sides actually need a reality check. Nothing in life is free. Everything gets more and more expensive every year. At least student fees should have the same price hike than anything else in life.
Of course some would say that it is a fundamental society decision and that the government could choose to make studies free of charge but at least if they do they should ¨finance ¨ that decision by making sure waste,corruption and bonuses are under control. It is of no use to put more money in the system if it is to be wasted in flaws in the system.

The “student” protest has very little to do with tuition fees and higher education but rather it is more of anti-Charest/pro-separatist movement.

I didn’t see these students come out when Marois said she was essentially gonna shut down english CEGEPs? If you were sincerely concerned about the state of post-secondary education would you not have voiced something?

They’re a joke and an embarassment! Maybe if they stop spending money on garbage stuff like the language police and put that money back to tuition fees…..I would then be fine with the freeze!

“I kind of feel sorry for players who never got a chance to be a Montreal Canadien” – Cammalleri

I’ll immediate issue my disclaimer that I work (contract basis) in a university environment, as I have for the past decade, and my job is obviously tied very directly to the number of students that the universities can pull in.

With that out of the way, I think that the students are actually wrong regarding cheap or free higher education. They consistently point to the northern European countries, such as Germany, and their free tuition for students. What they fail to also highlight is the paltry number of people in those countries who get to take advantage of that system.

University in countries like Germany does have free tuition, but it comes at the cost that students are streamed VERY early (my father was streamed at 12 years old in Denmark, with a second and final shot to get into the “academic” stream at 14 years old). I struggle to see North American parents and kids embracing a system where they don’t get to choose to go to university, but have it chosen for them at an age where we believe kids should still be kids.

I’m personally in favour of such a system, even if it would ultimately cost me my job. We have far, far too many students in university. Graduates are increasingly finding it difficult to find work in their field of study, leading to a generation of disenfranchised, disillusioned and underemployed Canadians. This is not the recipe for a healthy and happy society.

I don’t know what the solution is, but removing tuition is NOT a solution. There are already too many kids here who couldn’t care less that they are paying a huge amount of money to come to school. They don’t do the work that we assign, they don’t come to class, and they certainly don’t engage themselves all that passionately in this education they claim is such an important part of life.

Removing tuition just removes one more incentive that people have to actually treat university as a privilege, an investment in their own futures, as oppose to an inalienable right that confers a university degree regardless of the work that is put forth.

While I disagree with many points, I think the idea is sound, especially the cost to reward offering.

I’d like to see where a degree in an expensive to teach career focused area should not cost as much as something that is cheap to teach and has a plethora of potential teachers, that you don’t even need a university for. Many make the argument for rounded curriculum and “finding” paths. I think a lot of that could be done by taking a class held by someone and group at one of our empty libraries, with books that perhaps aren’t a small fortune, far more cost effectively than what many Universities do now.

@Chris
Graduates are increasingly finding it difficult to find work in their field of study, leading to a generation of disenfranchised, disillusioned and underemployed Canadians. This is not the recipe for a healthy and happy society.

That’s not the students fault. Whose fault is it?

Richard R
Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

Something I hadn’t thought about, but in the last few years Quebec has been relatively prosperous for the first time since 1976. They’re finally building the new hospitals, unemployment is lower than in California, there was zero talk of a referendum, etc … On a more prosaic levels, the Canadiens are the 3rd richest team in hockey.

To my Anglo pals here on HIO who are completely overreacting to this PQ Minority Gov and crapping their pants. Take a chill pill.

It’s actually a good outcome. Marois can’t push forward with her political agenda as her hands are largely tied. That gives her 4 odd years to wear out her welcome… Sovereignty of Separation is from a demographic point of view a lost cause. That die has been cast and all that’s left are some talking points and a bit of chest thumping. It simply isn’t going to happen. Again, … chill.

But the best news of all is that Charest is gone. 9 years of ultra corruption just got ousted and he even lost his seat. Thank the Maker. That my friends is the best outcome we could get out of this.

The PQ , all things considered, are a fairly harmless alternative with a shorter shelf life than the Crooked Libs. If you’re an Anglo, look on the bright side; you’ll still be able to live entirely in English in La Belle Province and act as an oppressed minority to your mates in the rest of the English Speaking World (that would be a good chunk of the planet just in case you’re worried…)

You can regale your friends with tales of woe and oppression under a despotic regime all the while dating all these incredibly hot, bilingual women who will empathise with your suffering and help you through this rough patch.

Incidentally, I’ve always had a soft spot for the Darche family. Great athletes with brains and drive.

Actually, Marc10, Marois is a very stupid choice. University students, who have 84% of their tuition paid by everyone else is not a good thing. More restrictive language laws and other “chest thumping” behavior will drive entrepreneurs to more stable climes. Minority status means she’ll have to get CAQ on board for every piece of legislation, but it won’t stop Marois from being a very poor choice for premier.
I was hoping for a CAQ sweep, but Legault couldn’t drum up enough support. Seeing that the Liberals won as many seats as they did shows me party loyalty that’s based upon obsessive fear. I am glad Charest lost his seat.

I certainly wouldn’t endorse her and her policies, but the priority for me was to see Charest removed from the scene. Mission accomplished. Sometimes you just need to get the bum out.

It’s a shame the third party couldn’t rally the traditonal Liberal enclaves to its cause. That would have been a full repudiation of Charest and his “donors” and gotten you a non traditonal party outcome. But hey, at least he’s gone.

I think Charest losing has benefits as you suggest Marc. Clearly ever since he jumped from the Federal Conservative party to the Provincial Liberal party he has given the impression of being the “annointed” one, the saviour. I believe this went to his and his party’s head, thus the arrogance and corruption per se.

The liberal party in Quebec needs a reset just as their federal counterpoints are currently going through. Hopefully through this exercise a new and better provincial liberal party in Quebec can be born. However, because they lost by a relatively small margin (in terms of seats to PQ, I realize they actually lost by a great deal in terms of overall vote percentage compared to the PQ and CAQ combined) they may feel only a classic HI/O “tweak” is required. This would be a mistake, I think.

Just a perspective from a dumb anglo in Southern Ont. raised on the prairies.

As for the impact of a PQ minority gov’t, I don’t have nearly enough understanding of Quebec politics to comment on. Always good to read another perspective Marc, thanks.

I’m giving you the very ‘Liberal-centric’ and ‘ultra-federalist’ assessment of one of my profs at McGill back in the 90s. Post Referendum he reckoned the Separation Ship had sailed. The immigration trends that have followed closely mirror his predictions, so I would guess he’s right (unless something really outlandish happens like Harper sending the troops in… and then all bets would be off… But I digress.)

I’d close by saying people are tribal, but the Two Solitudes have co-existed closely long enough and have too much in common to ‘separate’ as it were. So I’m not worried. After all, until the Nords come back, we’re pretty much all Hab Fans…

Now if we could do something about the pathetic construction mafia and its supporters… That would be a start! (but I won’t hold my breath…)

I don’t think she’s racist. Again, like most people she’s tribal. She’s doing what she’s doing to protect her language and culture (at least that’s how most PQ supporters see it). And I haven’t heard anything that says she hates English speaking folks.

Like I said, she’s just wanting to protect her tribe. That’s how humans roll. Same shit everywhere man. Israel, the US, Ireland, Sweden… take your pick. Quebecers tend to be more civilised about the whole thing. It speaks to their democratic nature and that’s a very good thing.

Now Don Cherry, that’s a bigot. Good thing he’s not running for anything…

Quite honestly i ve been looking for a way to reply to a few comments written here tonight that were filled with hatred. But i did not want to feed the fire,political discussions always seems to bring the worst of human beings…Now with everything that happened i just want to say that i feel even weirder about what i have read earlier here. Like it or not the government was elected by the people of Québec as much as the liberals were five years ago and that we have to live with it and respect the choice of quebecers.

I know that no one here is happy or proud of what happened but let`s hope that it helps everyone to think about things. Sometimes we write things that seems like necessary to get out of our system but maybe we should think before saying things. Violence of any kind leads nowhere.

So now we have to listen to that b*tch (sorry, but I’m seriously p•ssed!) make a mockery of our political landscape.
I’ve read that this is the best case scenario of the worst possible result.
I hope so, because if she keeps shooting her mouth off with total disregard for the social, political and economic consequences, the population required to cover the financial burden she will draw upon us will turn and hightail it to any part of Canada that respects our rights.
And sadly, that’s anywhere but here!

Unfortunaeately she won and was elected by the people……the people there shaping………..there creating there own winning conditions and it will happen one day……..absolutely criminal the way its happening……..black mailing the ethnic, the anglo’s, and misinforming there own. What disturbing is the fact that the rest of Canada is spending millions on bilingualism and yet there slowing eroding and misrepresenting what the program should be. Interesting to see what happens in Quebec. I am former Quebecer and own property there, I do speak the language but something has to break………sad!

…The Cow gets barely 32 % of the votes cast, and yet she says she intends on an immediate appointment to meet with Harper to change Our Constitution and demand Quebec be accepted as a sovereign ‘nation’

…WHY ??? can’t Quebecers put a nail in the PQ ?, because this PQ dinosaur is only a burden to Quebec, as well as Canada

Sure enough, but then Mr. Harper has about the same level of popular support, so he has the same amount of credibility. Yet he’s going full steam ahead with pillaging Alberta’s forests to produce dirty, goopy, carbon intensive petro-slurry to sell to China. Which is making his Calgary Oil cronies richer, but doing nothing for Canada aside from accelerating global warming.

No, I’m pretty sure it’s petro-slurry made from ripping up the forest and digging out the soil and blasting it with steam made by burning natural gas and heating Athabasca river water that ends up in a settlement pond that will take hundreds of years before it settles, if the earthen dams holding these ponds in place don’t breach and spill into the river and Arctic Ocean before then. Not apples and oranges.

I am so sick of Marois’ face already…as a perfectly bilingual Quebecer, born of both French and Scottish parents I am absolutely disgusted with these results. The English population get thrown under the bus even though they built much of this beautiful province. My grandparents came to this country with absolutely nothing and didn’t know a word of French, but with their skills contributed (along with other immigrants of the time) to building Quebec and Montreal. How many Quebecers fought and died in wars for CANADA’s freedom…was their cause in vain? The “culture” in Quebec is not just that of French, their are so many influences from a multitude of different cultures…and I say this not just from a Montrealer’s point of view as I live in northern Quebec at the moment. Why is there such a phobia for unilingual francophones to learn other languages? I know most of it is media driven as my girlfriend who is born from unilingual francophone parents has told me. However she has told me that the younger generation of Francophone Quebecers is realizing that it is important not only to speak English, but a multitude of languages. I hope so, and that the older generation and their fascist beliefs eventually get weeded out.

/end rant

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

Jean Charest explained that the election of a PQ government would usher in an era of economic uncertainty, so the climate wouldn’t be good to ‘invest’ in Québec. He also explained that people wouldn’t be able to find work or afford tickets.

If the PQ forces me to give up my love affair with the Habs I will not watch NHL hockey again, nor step foot inside the country of Quebec. Sadly this is exactly what the PQ objective is. Why do a good chunk of the French hate the English? To say the rest of the country has been tolerant is understatement.

Speaking as a ‘francophone hors-Québec’ who can pass as an anglo-Canadian when he hasn’t had more than three or four beers, I’ve been undercover in English Canada for a while now, and I love my country and compatriots, but let me tell you that I have witnesses lots of ignorance, and lots of intolerance towards francophones and towards Québec. It’s a two-way street. We are characterized as ‘Two Solitudes’ for a good reason, in that there is a significant portion of each camp that wants nothing to do with the other.

Your post is a perfect example of the stereotypical “What does kwuhbeck want?” anglo attitude.

So Quebec & Ontario,Canada’s two most populous provinces,both have minority governments(pending Thursday’s 2 byelection results in Ontario)..although I sincerely doubt if McGuilty will win those to get his majority.

What do you believe would be more likely to happen?
A. All CAQ MNAs back the liberals in a coalition
or
B. 3 or 4 CAQ MNAs cross the floor to give the PQ + QS the 63 votes they’d need to defeat any potential Liberal lead coalition.

Serious question, I’m just looking for someone’s take on the likelihood those two possibilities, thx.

Honestly, I think both options are very unlikely to happen. Maybe option B if the PQ only needed 1 more for a majority, but now I think they would need like 6 or 7. Won’t happen. And anyway, it will be option C. this system works when there are only 2 parties; since there are now 4, well, here goes another election in a year or so, and a weak government that cannot make any significant decisions in the meantime!

I’m sure they’ll all get to reducing that 16 Trillion dollar debt you have soon. Or not.

Greek politicians get all the bad let’s-go-bankrupt press but it looks like they might have competition soon. A fair number of cities are going tits-up, California might follow suit. Might as well put the whole country under.

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Me skull and crossbones arn’t the only thing I plan on raisin’ tonight.