All were clearly 'good' and well made but the fit was all over the place, and some just didn't suit me. It was clear to me that the best technically wasn't necessarily the best fitting, so there's no point in arguing that X is 'better' than Y because it depends on the fit.

I quietly wanted a Castelli but it wasn't to be. The best ones (for me) were the Sportful and the Campag and I went for the latter.

Bibshorts, jerseys, whatever, it's all the same. Find the best fitting one.

Not really sure where the anti-Chinese sentiment comes from but to discount all the clothing they produce because you don't want to ride a bike there is extraordinarily short-sighted. If you hate the Chinese and can't bear to wear anything they produce of course that's your choice but don't try and cloak that xenophobia in some kind of quality argument; they make good, bad and indifferent things just like everywhere else...

Northoceanbeach wrote:

So it's a quality control nightmare(qc? Really dude?) than maybe their quality sucks.

It doesn't all have to be made in one country but it sure shouldn't include china.

All my Giordana is from Italy.I have assos from Bulgaria, Switzerland, Italy and maybe one other place. Those are all countries I'd want to ride a bike. They are also E.U. Or close enough, so they have good labour standards. $250 for a shirt is a lot. It's rediculous if it's made in China.

I used I like designer clothes, it used to be Prada was all made in Europe and it was all quality. Now most is from China and it's overpriced crap. It just didn't last, at all. So you shouldn't buy it. It's very simple.

Yeah, I don't know about that. Does anyone have anything bad to say about Assos, besides the price? Maybe no one hates on Assos because they're Swiss.

I have never been crazy about Assos look. I prefer Rapha style. Assos has a deeper line, in some regards, less so in others. They definitely have a more complete winter offering, less so on the casual side.

Not really sure where the anti-Chinese sentiment comes from but to discount all the clothing they produce because you don't want to ride a bike there is extraordinarily short-sighted. If you hate the Chinese and can't bear to wear anything they produce of course that's your choice but don't try and cloak that xenophobia in some kind of quality argument; they make good, bad and indifferent things just like everywhere else...

Northoceanbeach wrote:

So it's a quality control nightmare(qc? Really dude?) than maybe their quality sucks.

It doesn't all have to be made in one country but it sure shouldn't include china.

All my Giordana is from Italy.I have assos from Bulgaria, Switzerland, Italy and maybe one other place. Those are all countries I'd want to ride a bike. They are also E.U. Or close enough, so they have good labour standards. $250 for a shirt is a lot. It's rediculous if it's made in China.

I used I like designer clothes, it used to be Prada was all made in Europe and it was all quality. Now most is from China and it's overpriced crap. It just didn't last, at all. So you shouldn't buy it. It's very simple.

Bravo for this post. Some honesty in the matter.

I dont think you know what you're talking about.

Xenophobia means fear of outsiders. If I was xenophobic it would mean I would be preaching buy American, not Bulgarian or Swiss. I think you meant I say racist. But while China may make some good products go to Walmart or a dollar store and tell that the vast majority isn't really inexpensive, disposable products.

Again, it is not short sighted to not want to buy race bike clothes from a country that isnt one with a big race cycle culture, or one in which I may want to road bike. I dont even know how you stuck the term shortsighted in there. What does that even mean? It means nothing. If you were to buy a Race car would you buy it from the middle I the amazon rain forest where there are no roads or cars? Or would you buy it from somewhere that had roads?

Lastly your post about the raid on the immigrant factory in Italy. Yes some of the factories have migrant labour, but you were referencing h and m and not really the high end clothing, I've seen Assos' factory, it is not a third world hovel transplanted into Italy. But we can I ly really do what we can an at least try to buy from nice countries. But doesn't the whole pout of that article were the Italian police raid the factory prove my point? The whole point of the article was that once the authorities found out about the conditions they put a stop to it, that is a REASON to buy from Italy, they CARE about working conditions.

We're totally OT, but just for mere information; in Italy lately there have been many raids against those hidden "factories" where illegall chinese works for few euros each day.At first even the pubblic opinion was against chinese people, but then they realized that it's the big brands fault for this situation and it seems that even italian police might start to take some actions against the big brands.

Getting back on topic, Im not a big Rapha fan, but as Ive visited China a couple of times and have friends into the cycling clothing manufactering, I can say that there are many other well known companies (especially for the US market) who produce their stuff in China.

So it's a quality control nightmare(qc? Really dude?) than maybe their quality sucks.

It doesn't all have to be made in one country but it sure shouldn't include china.

All my Giordana is from Italy.I have assos from Bulgaria, Switzerland, Italy and maybe one other place. Those are all countries I'd want to ride a bike. They are also E.U. Or close enough, so they have good labour standards. $250 for a shirt is a lot. It's rediculous if it's made in China.

I used I like designer clothes, it used to be Prada was all made in Europe and it was all quality. Now most is from China and it's overpriced crap. It just didn't last, at all. So you shouldn't buy it. It's very simple.

Regardless of all the labor practice / human rights / etc.. .to say you would not want to ride a bike in China really displays your ignorance.. It is a massive country that has amazing landscape and is relatively unexplored by cyclists.. i would jump at the chance to ride there.. By the way Rapha also makes clothing in Italy, Portugal and other Euro country's... just be honest with yourself, if you don't like it .. don't like it.

Xenophobia means fear of outsiders. If I was xenophobic it would mean I would be preaching buy American, not Bulgarian or Swiss. I think you meant I say racist. But while China may make some good products go to Walmart or a dollar store and tell that the vast majority isn't really inexpensive, disposable products.

Again, it is not short sighted to not want to buy race bike clothes from a country that isnt one with a big race cycle culture, or one in which I may want to road bike. I dont even know how you stuck the term shortsighted in there. What does that even mean? It means nothing. If you were to buy a Race car would you buy it from the middle I the amazon rain forest where there are no roads or cars? Or would you buy it from somewhere that had roads?

Lastly your post about the raid on the immigrant factory in Italy. Yes some of the factories have migrant labour, but you were referencing h and m and not really the high end clothing, I've seen Assos' factory, it is not a third world hovel transplanted into Italy. But we can I ly really do what we can an at least try to buy from nice countries. But doesn't the whole pout of that article were the Italian police raid the factory prove my point? The whole point of the article was that once the authorities found out about the conditions they put a stop to it, that is a REASON to buy from Italy, they CARE about working conditions.

You say: it is not short sighted to not want to buy race bike clothes from a country that isnt (sic) one with a big race cycle culture

You then state: I dont (sic) even know how you stuck the term shortsighted (sic) in there. What does that even mean?

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