Who would you like to see the Indians go after for the 2012 season?Here are some suggestions of players that could be acquired either through FA or trade. (Realistic, please: Albert Pujols and Andrew McCutchen need not apply.)

Jonny Gomes - FA and RH outfielder. Low BA this year, but OPS still over .700. An offensive upgrade over FuKu at a reasonable price.

Logan Morrison - young power hitting OF. Only available because he has worn out his welcome with management. Would be the king of Indians social media. Would cost good prospects in trade, but would be worth it to help big club in "contending" season.

Alfonso Soriano - RH OF, 2B, DH (I can hear the groans already.) Yes, he makes a ton of money. But word is the Cubs would be happy to eat a huge portion of it. You also can use the money you save by not bringing back Sizemore. He also can become the DH in 2013 after Hafner leaves (and he could play a position in inter-league games). Not the player he used to be, but a contending team could rejuvenate him.

Dark horses: Mr. X and Mr. XX ; Whoever now plays first base for the teams that Pujols and Fielder sign with.

Several names have been targeted for the Indians to help solve the offensive woes.. While it's been the focus to look at a RH bat.. any bat that improves..plays one of 1B, C, LF, OF.. could be/should be considered. Players that might be of interest include:

(note: a C & P of a previous posting)

Michael Morse (Nats): The Nats and Indians match up very well w/r to a trade situation. The Nats needs include a catcher, center fielder, and at least one MLB ready or near ready RP & SP. The Nats have a very strong group of young infielders including top ten prospects Anthony Rendon & Chris Marrero to go with Bryce Harper, all being on the precipice of becoming a ML'ers. The Nat's "corner" position player situation is getting crowded and a bit too right handed. The Indians have a starting pitching and reliever depth as well as depth at catcher and at least two and possibly three CF'ers that may be of interest to the Nats. An argument for a trade can, and, possibly, should be made.

Yonder Alonso (Reds): The Reds haven't figured out what Yonder will be when he grows up. One thing he won't be is the starting 1B, his best position. The Reds have experimented with putting Yonder in LF, but, they've learned why he is a 1B/DH. The Reds needs don't fit very well with the Indians save for pitching, both SP's and RP's. The Reds are set and deep at virtually the same positions the Indians are. The Reds biggest position player need appears to be 3B. The Indians have no intention of trading Lonnie Chisenhall. A trade with the Reds seems unlikely.

Jesus Montero (NYY's): The Yankees know that Jesus Montero is never going to be a ML Catcher. That leaves 1B (Mark Teixeira), FULL TIME DH (undesired) and LF (Brett Gardner) as position spots. The Yankees may be on the verge of losing their RF'er and can go out and buy anyone they want, but, could be more than willing to make a trade with the Indians. This would be a "block buster" type deal that would be predicated on the NYY's failing miserably in the playoffs (that would really hurt my feelings). The trade could include Shin-soo Choo as the center piece for the Indians and Jesus Montero as the co-centerpiece for the NYY's. (yes, that means more than just Montero from the NYY's).

Chris Carter(A's): The A's are a team in transition w/r to needs. The A's can use help just about everywhere on the diamond except middle infield and 1B. Carter who projects as a middle of the order hitter, has put up some incredible power numbers in the "hitter-happy" California League. The A's have never been a good trading partner, but, where there's a match, there may be a trade..

I think one of Cuddyer/Willingham will be looked at for 1B.....and they will part ways with Sizemore and try to finish off a trade for BJ Upton, a guy they were very much in on before the July deadline.

One of the announcers from the Comcast sports network is on Bruce Drennan right now and he actually sounds very intelligent and has said some very informative things. I would love Michael Cuddyer, but this gentleman mentioned that almost every GM hes talked to has Cuddyer near the top of their FA list, so we can basically cross him off ours.

I had heard that the reds would be willing to shop Alonso, and he would be high on my wish list because he would be young, cheap, and in our control for many years, but if GSon is correct, then it would probably take a deal involved around Chiz to get him. I would be a lot more willing to deal Chiz than most considering Donalds recent performance, but Im sure most people would disagree and the FO probably would too, so this probably isnt an option.

I am also a huge LOMO fan, but we really just dont have the ammo to deal him after the Jimenez trade. The Marlins will be looking for MLB ready talent and Morrisons potential will probably net a group of prospects that we cant match, so hes out.

Im not against trading Choo, but certainly not for Montero. Isn't everyone getting sick of Hafners inability to play a position in the field? I love the guy, but having no versatility in the DH role puts so many restrictions on who we can or cant try to acquire during or after the season. Montero may be a great talent, but unless he learns how to play some first base, I want nothing to do with him.

Willingham would be nice, but hes another player we would have to overpay to acquire, and I really dont wanna think about having him possibly clogging up the lineup and the payroll in 2014-2016 when his numbers are on the decline.

I like hearing about the Upton trade possibilities, as long as we don't have to give up to much. He may not get much better than he is, but I dont feel like he'll get worse either. He also has managed to stay fairly healthy in his career, which is a big deal when we consider our experiences with Grady.

My number one target on my free agent wish list is definitely Berkman. It is unlikely, but not impossible to acquire him. He may not have a desire to play for cleveland, but at least now we may be able to convince some FA's that we are dedicated to being contenders now. I would be willing to match almost every 2 year deal he is offered. If now is the time to win, Berkman is the type of player we NEED in the middle of our order. If a Kerry Wood type deal would get it done, even if the yearly salary was higher than the 10/yr we gave Kerry, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Its sad that the free agent class is so weak the same year that we decide we want to contend now, but we do have some options, there will just be loads of competition in the market.

...and as I continue to dwell on it, I would trade Chiz for Alonso, a potential franchise first basemen, without thinking twice considering the depth we have at third. We would still be in a better position than a lot of teams at third if he had a Donald/Hannahan platoon for the next couple .

TonyIPI wrote:I think one of Cuddyer/Willingham will be looked at for 1B.....and they will part ways with Sizemore and try to finish off a trade for BJ Upton, a guy they were very much in on before the July deadline.

I agree with you but I don't expect more than kicking the tires on Cuddyer/Willingham. Bidding will be too high and too long for Cleveland. Upton looks like a serious target from what I hear. Inconsistent bat and lots of Ks but great defender in CF with a year left on his contract and an unlikely target for the rich teams.

BrianM wrote:...and as I continue to dwell on it, I would trade Chiz for Alonso, a potential franchise first basemen, without thinking twice considering the depth we have at third. We would still be in a better position than a lot of teams at third if he had a Donald/Hannahan platoon for the next couple .

I also would ponder the Chiz for Alonso type trade. I don't want to lose Chiz but a Alonso may be an answer at 1B especially with few 1B's in the pipeline.

And I have stated it over and over....I do not want Michael Morse putting on a 1B's glove in an Indians Uni. I would rather have Hafner play 1st than Morse.

BrianM wrote:...and as I continue to dwell on it, I would trade Chiz for Alonso, a potential franchise first basemen, without thinking twice considering the depth we have at third. We would still be in a better position than a lot of teams at third if he had a Donald/Hannahan platoon for the next couple .

I also would ponder the Chiz for Alonso type trade. I don't want to lose Chiz but a Alonso may be an answer at 1B especially with few 1B's in the pipeline.

And I have stated it over and over....I do not want Michael Morse putting on a 1B's glove in an Indians Uni. I would rather have Hafner play 1st than Morse.

Wouldn't you just fill a need while creating another one? When people talk about the depth at 3rd, I must be missing something because outside of Chiz I don't see anyone close to the majors to take his spot. I guess you could go with Hannahan and/or Donald, but that doesn't seem like a sensible answer to me.

Alonso would definately be a great addition and I think he could be had, but I'd stay away if takes Chisenhall/Kipnis.

JP_Frost wrote:Wouldn't you just fill a need while creating another one? When people talk about the depth at 3rd, I must be missing something because outside of Chiz I don't see anyone close to the majors to take his spot. I guess you could go with Hannahan and/or Donald, but that doesn't seem like a sensible answer to me.

Alonso would definately be a great addition and I think he could be had, but I'd stay away if takes Chisenhall/Kipnis.

That's the point.....It would take something to get something.....Is acquiring Alonso > having Chis?...certainly something to consider.....You do have Hannahan, Donald, and Phelps all ML ready and Phelps with a winter working on 3B could be a replacement....Lower down you do have some guys that could be moved to 3B (we have a lot of SS prospects and any not named Lindor could move there although Wolters may not be a fit at 3B unless he blows up physically). At 1B we have Mills and Aguilar and ?).

I just think it'd be a bit easier to find a decent 1st baseman than it is to find a replacement for Chisenhall. To me, Phelps and Donald aren't viable options at 3rd. That leaves you with Hannahan and possibly Goedert (though he lacks the defensive skills to be an everyday 3rd baseman in the majors). All other options are way down in the minors. For 1st base you have LaPorta, Duncan, Mills, Nick Johnson, Aguilar, and even Santana. It just seems way more reasonable to upgrade at 1st without creating a hole at 3rd, even if you think Alonso would be more valuable to the team than Chisenhall.

To me there aren't any realistic scenario's in which I'd trade Kipnis and/or The Chiz. Unless we're talking Ryan Braun, Matt Kemp, Lomgoria ... well you get the picture.

JP_Frost wrote:Wouldn't you just fill a need while creating another one? When people talk about the depth at 3rd, I must be missing something because outside of Chiz I don't see anyone close to the majors to take his spot. I guess you could go with Hannahan and/or Donald, but that doesn't seem like a sensible answer to me.

Alonso would definately be a great addition and I think he could be had, but I'd stay away if takes Chisenhall/Kipnis.

That's the point.....It would take something to get something.....Is acquiring Alonso > having Chis?...certainly something to consider.....You do have Hannahan, Donald, and Phelps all ML ready and Phelps with a winter working on 3B could be a replacement....Lower down you do have some guys that could be moved to 3B (we have a lot of SS prospects and any not named Lindor could move there although Wolters may not be a fit at 3B unless he blows up physically). At 1B we have Mills and Aguilar and ?).

While it always takes something to get something (Yonder Alonso), the something the Indians have that the Reds need may not be a good fit.. but then again..it might.. First off, Jared Goedert, Giovanny Urshela and "Bells" Bellows gives the Indians depth at 3B .. Hannahan & Donald offer depth at the ML Level for the hot corner.. Would a Chisenhall for Alonso trade fly?.. IDK.. It's been sooooo long since the Indians had a bona fide third baseman, I'd hate to watch the Chiz flourish in the Natti...

When you look at the Reds organization, the biggest needs (& reason) the Reds may be looking to part with Yonder Alonso is:

After looking at this in depth, it wouldn't be a huge stretch to believe that if the Indians were willing to part with Jason Donald along with either a bullpen arm that projects to the back of the pen (Pestano/Smith) or a BOR/MOR, this would be a better fit for the Reds.. maybe not...

I just think it'd be a bit easier to find a decent 1st baseman than it is to find a replacement for Chisenhall. To me, Phelps and Donald aren't viable options at 3rd. That leaves you with Hannahan and possibly Goedert (though he lacks the defensive skills to be an everyday 3rd baseman in the majors). All other options are way down in the minors. For 1st base you have LaPorta, Duncan, Mills, Nick Johnson, Aguilar, and even Santana. It just seems way more reasonable to upgrade at 1st without creating a hole at 3rd, even if you think Alonso would be more valuable to the team than Chisenhall.

To me there aren't any realistic scenario's in which I'd trade Kipnis and/or The Chiz. Unless we're talking Ryan Braun, Matt Kemp, Lomgoria ... well you get the picture.

I wouldn't deal Chiz for Alonso....but disagree that Donald isn't a viable option at 3B. Way more viable there than Goedert. Kid was suppose to be the opening day starter there. If he develops more with the bat, he'd be fine there. Really it's his best infield position. Doesn't have the best range but strong arm. 3B fits him....bat is lacking, but no more than anyone else you mentioned there (other than Chiz).

1. Berkman - one of the best bats available and one that we could afford IMO. The fact that he is RH plays 1B an the OF makes him a perfect fit

2. Derek Lee - Well would only play 1B and LaPorta only plays 1B... Someone would losing playing time...Wonder who. Good fit in a lot of ways though, but definitely would not have the same imact as Berkman IMO.

3. Beltran - good player but don't see how he ends up here...

4. Willingham - the "frugal" choice if there is such a thing... An upgrade though

5. trade/lesser FA - I imagine this is prolly option #2 in the FO realm. Could be done fairly easily and end up being pretty creative/massive...

Side note - Duncan has played great this year... Other than a terrible slump which he eventually came back from he has been excellent. Behind Carlos I think one could argue he is our best power hitter at this moment. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing him get a lot more time either at 1st or in the OF next year. Depending on who we add of course.

There really are only 3 viable FA positional prospects that fit what the Tribe needs and could potentially afford for minimal years. We need a RH or switch hitting OF/1B. I think we will go after a FA starter or trade for one as well.

1) Berkman - This is not going to happen. He will stay in STL

2) Willingham - Tribe should go all out for him and offer him an attractive 2 year deal. Likely the most possible FA option for the Tribe.

3) Cuddyer - Tribe will have stiff competition to sign this very versatile player than can play very well at many different positions including OF and 1B. His interest in this year's FA market will most likely drive his price out of the Tribe's budget.

toledobuck wrote:There really are only 3 viable FA positional prospects that fit what the Tribe needs and could potentially afford for minimal years. We need a RH or switch hitting OF/1B. I think we will go after a FA starter or trade for one as well.

1) Berkman - This is not going to happen. He will stay in STL

2) Willingham - Tribe should go all out for him and offer him an attractive 2 year deal. Likely the most possible FA option for the Tribe.

3) Cuddyer - Tribe will have stiff competition to sign this very versatile player than can play very well at many different positions including OF and 1B. His interest in this year's FA market will most likely drive his price out of the Tribe's budget.

Agree with you on Berkman.. he'll stay in St Louis..

Willingham signed a one year $ 6 MM deal for 2011.. he's had a good season and will need to be signed for no less than a one year $ 6 MM deal... and, if his agent has any brains at all, it will be for two years and at least a 20 % raise.. i.e. Two years, $ 15MM..

Agree with you on Cuddyer..with one caveat.. he'll probably stay in Minnesota..

So.. you can have one year of a potentially healthy Grady Sizemore at $ 8.5 MM and the resulting draft picks when his contract is over or the prospects if he's traded.. Option "B" will be to pay $ 15 MM for a Josh Willingham for the next two years.. Hmmm.... If a contract "alteration/extension" can be worked out with Grady and his agent (combining his option year to make a two year deal worth, $ 10 MM).. so much the better, but, even without it, this one doesn't need much more thought..

toledobuck wrote:1) Berkman - This is not going to happen. He will stay in STL

I agree that he will most likely want to stay in STL, but I was wondering if this was an educated predicition, or you have actually read that he wants to stay in STL and the cardinals plan on having him back next season. Berkman just fits our needs perfectly, and I would be very upset if we did not even have the opportunity to outbid another team for his services.

Yadir, who I think can be had for pitching and LOMO, who could be had for Donald or Phelps plus pitching would be top of my list. Youth, and you get to keep your pick which is worth as much as just about any guy outside of the top 3 or 4 in this system

Willingham's type A ranking really hurts his value imo. Sure he's a solid hitter, but to shell out big bucks for a DH and losing our first round pick at the same time is way too much. Same goes for Cuddyer.

toledobuck wrote:1) Berkman - This is not going to happen. He will stay in STL

I agree that he will most likely want to stay in STL, but I was wondering if this was an educated predicition, or you have actually read that he wants to stay in STL and the cardinals plan on having him back next season. Berkman just fits our needs perfectly, and I would be very upset if we did not even have the opportunity to outbid another team for his services.

I wouldn't be so sure. If St. Louis really ponies up for Albert there may not be enough to offer Berkman what he is worth. Now there will be several teams that will vie for his bat and that may put him out of reach for this team (if the team is prudent with their money). I would say the odds of Berkman staying in St. Louis drops to 60% if/when Albert signs. The odds he lands in Cleveland would be around 8% but the FO needs to try.

What we need is an OF'er. We need to stop messing around and play santana more at 1B. In his first full season, the guy hit 25 HR's. Why do we need to waste money and possibly lose a draft pick over signing a guy for a position we don't need.

Let lou marson try and win the catcher job and see what he can do with more playing time.

Laporta should go between 1B, OF and DH and we should give him one more year to prove himself. He really needs to change his swing because it looks like he generates no movement from his pelvis and swings too heavy with his upper body. That is what grady does which is why he has developed all these injuries with his knees.

We need to go out and sign or trade for an OF'er with some power. Even if choo gets some of his power back, we need another guy in the OF with power to go along with brantley as the leadoff hitter.

indians1 wrote:What we need is an OF'er. We need to stop messing around and play santana more at 1B. In his first full season, the guy hit 25 HR's. Why do we need to waste money and possibly lose a draft pick over signing a guy for a position we don't need.

Let lou marson try and win the catcher job and see what he can do with more playing time.

Laporta should go between 1B, OF and DH and we should give him one more year to prove himself. He really needs to change his swing because it looks like he generates no movement from his pelvis and swings too heavy with his upper body. That is what grady does which is why he has developed all these injuries with his knees.

We need to go out and sign or trade for an OF'er with some power. Even if choo gets some of his power back, we need another guy in the OF with power to go along with brantley as the leadoff hitter.

The Santana and 1B has been talked about in other threads. The FO is not willing to abandon the C experience with Santana. If Santana were to move elsewhere permanently I would prefer it to be to the OF because he does have a strong arm which would not be utilized at 1B.

The reason to go the OF/1B route is to improve the team and add some RH power (we are too LH). We are not sure if Grady will be kept which would open a spot. My opinion is if this team is going to compete next year they need that RH power addition and 1B/OF is the open spot. Not giving up on Laporta but right now he needs someone to compete with to earn his position.

$ 15 and $ 16 MM for 2012 and 2013, respectively, seems a bit pricey for Wright, but, that could be a true statement about anyone in MLB. It should be noted that the $ 31 MM he's owed only covers the cost to pay him if he were to come here. The acquisition costs to acquire him could emasculate the farm system...

Though Wright could be offensively nice - the indians issue(s) are pretty clear to see.... We need a right-handed or at least a SH OF/1B who can hit any where between 3-6 in an everyday line-up. Get that (Berkman) and suddenly you have definitely addressed your primary weakness. Getting a RH bat that has some power (plate skills) has to be the number one target followed by a SP IMO. Berkman can be had but will be expensive. Still though - its about as good as a "small market" option can be.

Last edited by criznit2009 on Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

toledobuck wrote:1) Berkman - This is not going to happen. He will stay in STL

I agree that he will most likely want to stay in STL, but I was wondering if this was an educated predicition, or you have actually read that he wants to stay in STL and the cardinals plan on having him back next season. Berkman just fits our needs perfectly, and I would be very upset if we did not even have the opportunity to outbid another team for his services.

I wouldn't be so sure. If St. Louis really ponies up for Albert there may not be enough to offer Berkman what he is worth. Now there will be several teams that will vie for his bat and that may put him out of reach for this team (if the team is prudent with their money). I would say the odds of Berkman staying in St. Louis drops to 60% if/when Albert signs. The odds he lands in Cleveland would be around 8% but the FO needs to try.

Lance Berkman has resigned with the St Louis Cardinals.. it was announced this morning...

GeronimoSon wrote:Lance Berkman has resigned with the St Louis Cardinals.. it was announced this morning...

wow, just saw this too.....only a 1 year deal? I'd have thought he could have gotten at least 2 if not 3 even at his age. Great re-sign by the Cards.

Indeed great move by the Cards... Just looking at the fact it is a 1 year deal.. Have to think the Cards are still in on Pujols 100%.. Great move - another example of why some teams always seem to stay right in the thick of it.

GeronimoSon wrote:Lance Berkman has resigned with the St Louis Cardinals.. it was announced this morning...

wow, just saw this too.....only a 1 year deal? I'd have thought he could have gotten at least 2 if not 3 even at his age. Great re-sign by the Cards.

Indeed great move by the Cards... Just looking at the fact it is a 1 year deal.. Have to think the Cards are still in on Pujols 100%.. Great move - another example of why some teams always seem to stay right in the thick of it.

One year deals benefit the club as they know it's a "one and done" situation..if the player bombs.. it's over..if he succeeds wildly.. then they deal with it at a later time.. sort of the same situation the Indians have in front of them with Grady for 2012 and Fausto for 2012 and the three years afterwards...

GeronimoSon wrote:Lance Berkman has resigned with the St Louis Cardinals.. it was announced this morning...

wow, just saw this too.....only a 1 year deal? I'd have thought he could have gotten at least 2 if not 3 even at his age. Great re-sign by the Cards.

Indeed great move by the Cards... Just looking at the fact it is a 1 year deal.. Have to think the Cards are still in on Pujols 100%.. Great move - another example of why some teams always seem to stay right in the thick of it.

One year deals benefit the club as they know it's a "one and done" situation..if the player bombs.. it's over..if he succeeds wildly.. then they deal with it at a later time.. sort of the same situation the Indians have in front of them with Grady for 2012 and Fausto for 2012 and the three years afterwards...

I don't want Grady back unless it is for 5 million max - all maxed out.... I rather get Willingham or Beltran - both could be had in the 8-10 million a year range IMO.

No need to look at role player type (Crisp is an example of a guy right on that edge... IMO) yet. We need a prime-time bat - as in hits, runs, HR's SLG...........

TonyIPI wrote:I think one of Cuddyer/Willingham will be looked at for 1B.....and they will part ways with Sizemore and try to finish off a trade for BJ Upton, a guy they were very much in on before the July deadline.

I've heard that Sizemore is as good as signed here for a few more years on an incentive laden contract.Grady has a chance this offseason to come in in the best condition he has been in, in years. Although, I fear his knees will prevent him from being an everyday player. I'm hoping the Indians see him as a guy that sits when convenient against lefties to rest knees next season...

Re: Upton ...I was told, as you obviously were, that we just about had a deal done for Upton ...and have already left it at we will talk again this offseason. I was told this by a guy that would obviously know firsthand. The future trade could include more than just Upton coming here of substance as well, I was told.

danh8 wrote:Re: Upton ...I was told, as you obviously were, that we just about had a deal done for Upton ...and have already left it at we will talk again this offseason. I was told this by a guy that would obviously know firsthand. The future trade could include more than just Upton coming here of substance as well, I was told.

That is very interesting information. Without comprimising your source, could you tell us a bit more about the package we offered and which players from Tampa Bay's side would've been included?

danh8 wrote:Re: Upton ...I was told, as you obviously were, that we just about had a deal done for Upton ...and have already left it at we will talk again this offseason. I was told this by a guy that would obviously know firsthand. The future trade could include more than just Upton coming here of substance as well, I was told.

That is very interesting information. Without comprimising your source, could you tell us a bit more about the package we offered and which players from Tampa Bay's side would've been included?

I am sure that any talks with TB would have revolved around getting some decent relief pitching back in return. They depleted their relief group last offseason so they would probably be quite interested in our wealth of minor league relievers (ie CC Lee, Burns, Judy, Hagadone, Guilmet, Putnam, etc).

TonyIPI wrote:I think one of Cuddyer/Willingham will be looked at for 1B.....and they will part ways with Sizemore and try to finish off a trade for BJ Upton, a guy they were very much in on before the July deadline.

I've heard that Sizemore is as good as signed here for a few more years on an incentive laden contract.Grady has a chance this offseason to come in in the best condition he has been in, in years. Although, I fear his knees will prevent him from being an everyday player. I'm hoping the Indians see him as a guy that sits when convenient against lefties to rest knees next season...

Re: Upton ...I was told, as you obviously were, that we just about had a deal done for Upton ...and have already left it at we will talk again this offseason. I was told this by a guy that would obviously know firsthand. The future trade could include more than just Upton coming here of substance as well, I was told.

hmm....Guess I find it hard to see us giving Grady "a few more years" AND trading for Upton this winter unless Brantley is being moved (or the Indians were going to do something drastic like try Grady at 1B).

I think any deal for Upton would require major league ready talent..... Brantley for example. Marson is another one they might like... Thinking a deal of either Brantley or Marson, Phelps and a RP or even Levon Washington are all guys who I think could be involved. Its worth pursuing but the cost could go from ok - to total B.S very quickly.....

TonyIPI wrote:I think one of Cuddyer/Willingham will be looked at for 1B.....and they will part ways with Sizemore and try to finish off a trade for BJ Upton, a guy they were very much in on before the July deadline.

I've heard that Sizemore is as good as signed here for a few more years on an incentive laden contract.Grady has a chance this offseason to come in in the best condition he has been in, in years. Although, I fear his knees will prevent him from being an everyday player. I'm hoping the Indians see him as a guy that sits when convenient against lefties to rest knees next season...

Re: Upton ...I was told, as you obviously were, that we just about had a deal done for Upton ...and have already left it at we will talk again this offseason. I was told this by a guy that would obviously know firsthand. The future trade could include more than just Upton coming here of substance as well, I was told.

I have heard the same but no deal was consumated in July because Rafael Perez was the main tagret purportedly. The Indians refused to incude him because they felt it would hurt their chances to compete for the pennant. They tried again, supposedly, in August but Perez could not get through waivers. I have to believe that Hagadone's performance has made Perez more available whether on not Upton is the target. I think that adding Talbot to the 40 means that Herrmann's days may be numbered and I would think Smith would be available for the right price.

Since Berkman signed, I think its team to call STL about Craig who is again blocked, STL needs pen help. Add in a spec and it might work. I have been harping this idea since July but I still think its solid

TonyIPI wrote:I think one of Cuddyer/Willingham will be looked at for 1B.....and they will part ways with Sizemore and try to finish off a trade for BJ Upton, a guy they were very much in on before the July deadline.

I've heard that Sizemore is as good as signed here for a few more years on an incentive laden contract.Grady has a chance this offseason to come in in the best condition he has been in, in years. Although, I fear his knees will prevent him from being an everyday player. I'm hoping the Indians see him as a guy that sits when convenient against lefties to rest knees next season...

Re: Upton ...I was told, as you obviously were, that we just about had a deal done for Upton ...and have already left it at we will talk again this offseason. I was told this by a guy that would obviously know firsthand. The future trade could include more than just Upton coming here of substance as well, I was told.

I have heard the same but no deal was consumated in July because Rafael Perez was the main tagret purportedly. The Indians refused to incude him because they felt it would hurt their chances to compete for the pennant.They tried again, supposedly, in August but Perez could not get through waivers. I have to believe that Hagadone's performance has made Perez more available whether on not Upton is the target. I think that adding Talbot to the 40 means that Herrmann's days may be numbered and I would think Smith would be available for the right price.

If this is true, that they could of had Upton with Raffy (he is a darn good Lefty reliever) as the main piece back in July.... Sad. That IMO is a bonehead move by the FO. Idiotic practically considering our BP depth. IF yr in the front office mid-July and think Raffy is more integral to winning games than Upton would be.. You're not watching the Cleveland Indians

jellis wrote:Since Berkman signed, I think its team to call STL about Craig who is again blocked, STL needs pen help. Add in a spec and it might work. I have been harping this idea since July but I still think its solid

Fully agree with this.

Allen Craig isn't a superstar, but I really like his versatility on defense and he seems to be that .850 OPS bat from a corner position we've been missing.

Our main trade targets should be Craig, Upton and Mayberry Jr. imo. With Upton having the most upside, but likely the most costly, so I hope the FO can shift focus quickly if they don't like TB's asking price.

TonyIPI wrote:I think one of Cuddyer/Willingham will be looked at for 1B.....and they will part ways with Sizemore and try to finish off a trade for BJ Upton, a guy they were very much in on before the July deadline.

I've heard that Sizemore is as good as signed here for a few more years on an incentive laden contract.Grady has a chance this offseason to come in in the best condition he has been in, in years. Although, I fear his knees will prevent him from being an everyday player. I'm hoping the Indians see him as a guy that sits when convenient against lefties to rest knees next season...

Re: Upton ...I was told, as you obviously were, that we just about had a deal done for Upton ...and have already left it at we will talk again this offseason. I was told this by a guy that would obviously know firsthand. The future trade could include more than just Upton coming here of substance as well, I was told.

I have heard the same but no deal was consumated in July because Rafael Perez was the main tagret purportedly. The Indians refused to incude him because they felt it would hurt their chances to compete for the pennant.They tried again, supposedly, in August but Perez could not get through waivers. I have to believe that Hagadone's performance has made Perez more available whether on not Upton is the target. I think that adding Talbot to the 40 means that Herrmann's days may be numbered and I would think Smith would be available for the right price.

If this is true, that they could of had Upton with Raffy (he is a darn good Lefty reliever) as the main piece back in July.... Sad. That IMO is a bonehead move by the FO. Idiotic practically considering our BP depth. IF yr in the front office mid-July and think Raffy is more integral to winning games than Upton would be.. You're not watching the Cleveland Indians

Before we go off on the deal criz, I also heard that there was a MI on the 40 (likely Donald but possibly Valbuena) and a catching prospect (likely Chen who was having injury issues) involved. Perhaps Dan can elaborate on what he heard to see if we are on similar pages. Sometimes the timing just is not right. FWIW, I understand it was Acta that killed the deal, not the FO. I am not critical in this case because Acta had Brantley at the time and Choo was supposedly returning in great shape in a few weeks and he did not want to risk his stretch run on an untested LHR. Hindsight is easier and I suspect it will be easier to trade Raffy but Donald looks like a keeper to me even though there are other MI options. But you are right that it did not work out for the Tribe.

jellis wrote:Since Berkman signed, I think its team to call STL about Craig who is again blocked, STL needs pen help. Add in a spec and it might work. I have been harping this idea since July but I still think its solid

Fully agree with this.

Allen Craig isn't a superstar, but I really like his versatility on defense and he seems to be that .850 OPS bat from a corner position we've been missing.

Our main trade targets should be Craig, Upton and Mayberry Jr. imo. With Upton having the most upside, but likely the most costly, so I hope the FO can shift focus quickly if they don't like TB's asking price.

I think that I can get on board with the two of you on this. Not wild about Mayberry but these deals seem realistic for the Indians which is more than I can say about a lot of the speculation in this thread. If StL resigns Pujols, it is difficult to see them getting rid of an inexpensive, but valuable, backup like Craig. If they don't, they will be looking for a big time 1B to replace Pujols which we don't have and use their trading chips for one. But it is a viable idea IMO.

indianinkslinger wrote:Our main trade targets should be Craig, Upton and Mayberry Jr. imo. With Upton having the most upside, but likely the most costly, so I hope the FO can shift focus quickly if they don't like TB's asking price.

I think that I can get on board with the two of you on this. Not wild about Mayberry but these deals seem realistic for the Indians which is more than I can say about a lot of the speculation in this thread. If StL resigns Pujols, it is difficult to see them getting rid of an inexpensive, but valuable, backup like Craig. If they don't, they will be looking for a big time 1B to replace Pujols which we don't have and use their trading chips for one. But it is a viable idea IMO. [/quote]

Well St.Louis might move Berkman to 1B (if they don't resign Albert) and then they would look for an OF but that also is not a good fit for us.

indianinkslinger wrote:Our main trade targets should be Craig, Upton and Mayberry Jr. imo. With Upton having the most upside, but likely the most costly, so I hope the FO can shift focus quickly if they don't like TB's asking price.

I think that I can get on board with the two of you on this. Not wild about Mayberry but these deals seem realistic for the Indians which is more than I can say about a lot of the speculation in this thread. If StL resigns Pujols, it is difficult to see them getting rid of an inexpensive, but valuable, backup like Craig. If they don't, they will be looking for a big time 1B to replace Pujols which we don't have and use their trading chips for one. But it is a viable idea IMO.

Well St.Louis might move Berkman to 1B (if they don't resign Albert) and then they would look for an OF but that also is not a good fit for us.[/quote]

If they don't resign Pujols (I think it is pretty likely they will) Berkman goes to 1B and Mr. Allen Craig gets a shot to play everyday IMO...

He is not my 1st choice prolly closer to 8th....-But looks like a team could add Ludwick for pretty cheap, low base lots of incentives. Think he will most likely be sitting on a bench for one of the perennial play-off teams in 2012

indianinkslinger wrote:Before we go off on the deal criz, I also heard that there was a MI on the 40 (likely Donald but possibly Valbuena) and a catching prospect (likely Chen who was having injury issues) involved. Perhaps Dan can elaborate on what he heard to see if we are on similar pages. Sometimes the timing just is not right. FWIW, I understand it was Acta that killed the deal, not the FO. I am not critical in this case because Acta had Brantley at the time and Choo was supposedly returning in great shape in a few weeks and he did not want to risk his stretch run on an untested LHR. Hindsight is easier and I suspect it will be easier to trade Raffy but Donald looks like a keeper to me even though there are other MI options. But you are right that it did not work out for the Tribe.

Even in hindsight I don't think I'd have dealt all that for Upton. Great talent that would have helped the offense, but that's still a ton to give up. Lefty relievers like Perez have fetched a ton on their own, wouldn't have part with much more there.

Agree that he could be trade bait with Hagadone around. Hasn't really wowed but hell of an arm. Disagree a bit on Donald. Do like him a ton, but with him looking like a backup long-term in Cleveland I think you gotta look at moving him this winter (though clearly don't have to trade him). Don't need a bunch of young guys on the bench. Can find a vet (like a Hannahan) that would do just was well in a reserve role. Not enough ABs to go around for their to be much of a difference.