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Re: A Pair of Worn Shoes

I had a really loud disagreement with another ex over whether or not R2.45 as a joke or not. I was on the "not a joke" side of that disagreement. I had no idea that document existed.

It's funny you mention this - about LRH joking

I had a discussion about this issu, with another ex recently
we concluded that many insane things LRH said and we didn't protest was because we taught - as idiots - he was joking -
but in fact he was not
(he propably smoke big ones - or had very good pills...)

About fair game -policies - this is not joking for OSA or Sea Org.

Some will argue it has been cancelled later
(as a pr action)
Most former SO or former Osa will confirm , that in fact, it has never been cancelled (same for disconnection)

Re: A Pair of Worn Shoes

By the way, this thread is a real gem! I am still resonating in a beautiful way from the marvelous O'Henry story that Face gave us. And many other of the insightful posts.

How can one not be thunderstruck by the profound fallacy in Rinder's logical and rhetorical abyss?

"Can a 'madman' influence the world for the better? Clearly so.

And therefore, who is to judge madness?

L. Ron Hubbard should be viewed this way..."

Perhaps the Indies are truly philosophers, much like Ron, gifting the world with "self-evident truths". Rinder has carried forth in the grand tradition of the Socratic Method, besting it with the modern science of the Sophistic Method, including such newly discovered knowingnesses as:

"Can a 'madman' terrorist bomber influence the world for the better by
explosively reducing congested overcrowding on a public bus? Clearly so.

For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

Re: A Pair of Worn Shoes

Originally Posted by lotus

It's funny you mention this - about LRH joking

I had a discussion about this issu, with another ex recently
we concluded that many insane things LRH said and we didn't protest was because we taught - as idiots - he was joking -
but in fact he was not
(he propably smoke big ones - or had very good pills...)

About fair game -policies - this is not joking for OSA or Sea Org.

Some will argue it has been cancelled later
(as a pr action)
Most former SO or former Osa will confirm , that in fact, it has never been cancelled (same for disconnection)

Even if one were to (falsely) assume that Fair Game was in fact canceled, one would still be left with this impossibly paradoxical conundrum. . .

After nearly two decades of being the world's foremost expert, proponent and recipient of the beneficial effects of the "modern science of mental health" technology, why would Hubbard then (mid-1960s) even ORIGINATE a pervasively insane and criminal set of policies mandating treacherous lying, mayhem and murder?

No Scientologist or Indie Scientologist can or even hope to answer that question.

For offended Scientologists reading this blasphemy about L. Ron Hubbard---my apologies for talking about real life without lying to you, like Scientology, with goo-goo theta-talk. I know you don't have a floating needle right now. You're not supposed to.

Re: A Pair of Worn Shoes

"By their works, ye shall know them."

I don't care what PR is wrapped around L. Ron Hubbard. He created a Church, a CULTure, an organization, a system that hurt many people, and continues to hurt many people. The premise in the Rinder quote that is a LIE is that L. Ron Hubbard's work improved things for mankind. Sorry, we don't buy it, and we'll tell anyone that asks that we directly experienced Scientology over a very long period, and it harmed us, and many others all through those decades.

That others continue the harmful activities in the name of Scientology and its front groups years after L. Ron Hubbard's death does in no way remove the stain from his name. L. Ron Hubbard is to be reviled. But, heck, we're generous, we'll revile David Miscavage also, as he follows in L. Ron Hubbard's footsteps.

Last edited by Free Being Me; 5th January 2013 at 07:02 AM.
Reason: evil transcriptionists

Qui cum canibus concumbunt cum pulicibus surgent. - Benjamin Franklin
Beware of $cientologists bearing acceptable truths with "ARC." - Anonymous
Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. - Robert A. Heinlein

"Of course, now the worst kind of a trap of all, of course, i...is...is a...a beautiful woman. Uh...- that's a theta trap we all know. That this...that this is the worst type, the most deadly, but uh...again that's just a trap."PDC-9: Anatomy of Processing - Energy Phenomena/SensationL. Ron Hubbard

Re: A Pair of Worn Shoes

This current attempt at depicting Hubbard as the eccentric benefactor of Mankind and troubled genius, likening him to Vincent Van Gogh, is an effort to distract from another conclusion about Hubbard: that he was "willfully evil. He knew what he was doing."

Hubbard's "philosophy," later called "Scientology," appeared, not during the "cold war" of the 1950s, as is fashionable to say these days, but during the 1930s, during the time of Mussolini and Hitler.

___________________________

Living is a pretty grim joke, but a joke just the same.

The entire function of man is to survive. Not for 'what' but just to survive. [Not for what, but just to survive? as in have an impact for the sake of having an impact. "I am not interested in 'wog' morality... I can make Captain Bligh look like a Sunday school teacher." L. Ron Hubbard, 1969]

...

I turned the thing up [The Dynamic principle of Existence: Survive!] so it's up to me to survive in a big way.

Personal immortality is only to be gained through the printed word, barred note or painted canvas or hard granite.[Or stainless steel, or titanium, or by having 'L. Ron Hubbard' identified with people's 'survival!']

Foolishly perhaps, but determined nonetheless, I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all the books are destroyed.

That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned.

Things which stand too consistently in my way make me nervous. It's a pretty big job. In a hundred years Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which gives some idea of the magnitude of my attempt. And all this boils and froths inside my head.

...

Psychiatrists, reaching the high of the dusty desk, tell us that Alexander, Genghis Khan and Napoleon were madmen. I know they're maligning some very intelligent gentlemen.

...I can make Napoleon look like a punk...

From L. Ron Hubbard's 'Excalibur' letter, August 1938

______________________

Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler.

From L. Ron Hubbard's (self)'Affirmations' of 1946

________________

"In my opinion, Hubbard was an evil man, and a willfully evil man. He knew what he was doing."

James Randi

Randi encountered a Scientologist at the earlier part of this video, and was interviewed briefly by a non-Scientologist toward the end (around 2:00), where he talks about Hubbard, Dianetics, and John Campbell. Randi knew Hubbard in the late 1940s.

Last edited by Veda; 5th January 2013 at 11:15 AM.
Reason: formatting

Visit the Ex Scientologist Message Board web site for selected content from ESMB and more:http://exscn.net/

Re: A Pair of Worn Shoes

Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax!

Even if one were to (falsely) assume that Fair Game was in fact canceled, one would still be left with this impossibly paradoxical conundrum. . .

After nearly two decades of being the world's foremost expert, proponent and recipient of the beneficial effects of the "modern science of mental health" technology, why would Hubbard then (mid-1960s) even ORIGINATE a pervasively insane and criminal set of policies mandating treacherous lying, mayhem and murder?

No Scientologist or Indie Scientologist can or even hope to answer that question.

It seems that the Indies have answered this question and that the incriminating words of Hubbard weren't really his:

Excerpted from Theta News, Volume 7, Issue 23 (Published by Indie Press):"It has been confirmed through our investigative reporter Mike Hobson that during the years that Ron was researching the OT Levels to secure the freedom of all mankind, two psychiatrists infiltrated the mimeo section printing off issues on Fair Game, Disconnection, as well as other matters, which never received the proper issue authority, and there is no evidence that Ron was ever made aware of nor did he approve these issues. Please see attachment listing all illegitimate issues to be mailed in to the IJC (Indie Justice Chief) immediately in order to receive commendation chit filed in your ethics folders."www.thetapublications.com