this country is screwed

Re: this country is screwed

[3]
Posted: Aug 23, 2017 7:20 AM

It's a non issue , and there's really no problem here . What I take from it is that there are currently people in the entertainment business that have a great deal of things that they understand and do well , and then a great deal that they do not understand and do not do so well .

Re: Is this a joke?

[7]
Posted: Aug 23, 2017 9:16 AM

From here on out, the thought of building of a statue will be a total gross waste of money in the future. What ever the statue maybe, it will surely offend somebody that will head up a group to find a reason to tear it down tomorrow. People in today's world is so out of touch with what's real today or about what history was of yesterday. People today are digging up the dead from long ago, and through their hatred they will want punish them today. If statues were outlawed today, the people that want to hate what was yesterday will just find someone or something else from our past or our present to hate!!! With what's going on in today's world is a sure sign that we're coming closer and closer to ending the world that we live in. Just read the Bible, what's happening today was clearly mapped out in the Bible over 2000 years ago bc it was learned even back then that the humans aren't happy unless we're destroying everything in our path. It was also known that our intelligence would evolve so that we could destroy man kind many times over. It would seem that we would be smart enough to rid our world of anything that could destroy us all, or at least be smart enough to let the past stay in the past so that we could be happy and allow our love for each other to be much stronger than our hate. Hate equals the destruction of everything living, and if we refuse to learn from our mistakes of our past, the end will be closer than we believe it to be. Breading Hate in our hearts is the deadliest poison on earth!!!

NEW YORK Herald, 1870

[16]
Posted: Aug 23, 2017 7:36 AM

“On a quiet autumn morning, in the land which he loved so well and served so faithfully, the spirit of Robert Edward Lee left the clay which it had so much ennobled and traveled out of this world into the great and mysterious land. Here in the North, forgetting that the time was when the sword of Robert Edward Lee was drawn against us—forgetting and forgiving all the years of bloodshed and agony—we have long since ceased to look upon him as the Confederate leader, but have claimed him as one of ourselves; have cherished and felt proud of his military genius; have recounted and recorded his triumphs as our own; have extolled his virtue as reflecting upon us—for Robert Edward Lee was an American, and the great nation which gave him birth would be today unworthy of such a son if she regarded him lightly.”

“Never had mother a nobler son. In him the military genius of America was developed to a greater extent than ever before. In him all that was pure and lofty in mind and purpose found lodgment. Dignified without presumption, affable without familiarity, he united all those charms of manners which made him the idol of his friends and of his soldiers and won for him the respect and admiration of the world. Even as in the days of triumph, glory did not intoxicate, so, when the dark clouds swept over him, adversity did not depress."

Is this a freaking joke?

FDR, 1936

[9]
Posted: Aug 23, 2017 7:58 AM

"I am very happy to take part in this unveiling of the statue of General Robert E. Lee.

All over the United States we recognize him as a great leader of men, as a great general. But, also, all over the United States I believe that we recognize him as something much more important than that. We recognize Robert E. Lee as one of our greatest American Christians and one of our greatest American gentlemen."

Teddy Roosevelt, 1905

"Coming today by the statue of Stonewall Jackson, in the city of Lee, I felt what a privilege it is that I, as an American, have in claiming that you yourselves have no more right of kinship in Lee and Jackson than I have.

"There was an uncle of mine, now dead, my mother's brother, who has always been, among all the men I have ever met, the man who it seemed to me came nearest to typifying in the flesh that most beautiful of all characters in fiction, Thackeray's Col. Newcome - my uncle, James Dunwoody Bulloch, an admiral in the Confederate Navy....."

Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1960

[8]
Posted: Aug 23, 2017 8:08 AM

August 9, 1960

Dear Dr. Scott:

Respecting your August 1 inquiry calling attention to my often expressed admiration for General Robert E. Lee, I would say, first, that we need to understand that at the time of the War between the States the issue of secession had remained unresolved for more than 70 years. Men of probity, character, public standing and unquestioned loyalty, both North and South, had disagreed over this issue as a matter of principle from the day our Constitution was adopted.

General Robert E. Lee was, in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. He believed unswervingly in the Constitutional validity of his cause which until 1865 was still an arguable question in America; he was a poised and inspiring leader, true to the high trust reposed in him by millions of his fellow citizens; he was thoughtful yet demanding of his officers and men, forbearing with captured enemies but ingenious, unrelenting and personally courageous in battle, and never disheartened by a reverse or obstacle. Through all his many trials, he remained selfless almost to a fault and unfailing in his faith in God. Taken altogether, he was noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history.

From deep conviction, I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s calibre would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities, including his devotion to this land as revealed in his painstaking efforts to help heal the Nation’s wounds once the bitter struggle was over, we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.

Such are the reasons that I proudly display the picture of this great American on my office wall.

Let me explain...

[1]
Posted: Aug 23, 2017 11:03 AM

I view confederate statues and symbols the same way that a Jewish person views Nazi statues and symbols. Germany had enough sense to remove and ban all Nazi symbols. Whether certain people like it or not, a similar process has started here in America.

Re: Let me explain...

Posted: Aug 23, 2017 11:28 AM

Don't want to argue just pointing out that Union statues represent folks who did bad things also. It's all ridiculous honestly. This article is way out of proportion isn't it? I mean this poor guy is just named Robert Lee. Geez.

I don't get it. Thought it was a joke at first...***

Re: For Social Justice, I'll Tune to the "Lame" Stream Media

[5]
Posted: Aug 23, 2017 8:35 AM

Come on folks, ESPN loves their social commentary and left wing points of view. They push their agenda in a myriad of ways! They are MSNBC and CNN "wannabes" fronting as a sports network. I wish we had other network options! I watch them for their sports in spite of their commentary on social issues!

Re: For Social Justice, I'll Tune to the "Lame" Stream Media

Posted: Aug 24, 2017 1:25 PM

I agree with you. But I will say that ESECPN does have some really good stuff too. I think their 30:30 series is sometimes interesting. I especially enjoyed their production of the Celtics-Lakers rivalry in the '80s. Also, their piece on the SMU scandal of the '80s was quite good. And I think their take on the Arkansas national championship team of '64 (with Jerry Jones, Jimmy Johnson, Frank Broyles, etc) was excellent. Last night, they played the P.J. Fleck story. Pretty amazing guy. So, while I don't like their politicking and their coverage of fluffy sports events, I do appreciate some of the real meat and potatoes things they do.

Re: FB Update: ESPN releases statement on moving Robert Lee from UVA game

[2]
Posted: Aug 23, 2017 8:49 AM

So they're going to leaving a gray cloud over this guy's career just so nobody gets offended? This guy will forever be remembered as the asian guy with the same name as a dead confederate general from now on. I would have never even thought twice about the name similarity if he was calling a game, to be honest.

Re: Try to move this liberal and 5.56 Nato rounds will fly.***

I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I have somewhere around 20 guns but I don't think people need to own clips holding 30+ rounds....there is a middle ground to all of this nonsense.

I think as a nation, we really need to stop categorizing people as either all the way on the left or all the way on the right. I have voted for both republicans and democrats since I was of voting age. I long for the days where people could be civil to one another. If Trump makes it to the next election, which I doubt he will....he won't have my vote. We need to come together and have educated discussions. We need someone that will act calm and collected....not someone that pitches a fit every 20 minutes when he doesn't get his way. In no way did I ever think he wanted to lead this nation. He's only in it for his ego.

Re: Try to move this liberal and 5.56 Nato rounds will fly.***

Posted: Aug 24, 2017 3:30 PM

We need to do away with the parties. Not sure why we even have those anymore. Our government has just become a Clemson vs Carolina football game. It is all about who can win and look good verses doing what is right. It's just a big nonstop competition. Although, I will say maybe CU/USC is not a good example. To lopsided and not very competitive.

Why stop with Robert E Lee. There are many Southern generals and politicians. Lets just keep going and anyone with a name resembling anyone that has ever lived in the South should not be allowed to perform for any reason on TV, movies, radio or any other media.

Re: Mass mental illness.

Posted: Aug 23, 2017 5:07 PM

Progress can never be gained as long as we continue to dig up the past bc it's impossible to change history. History is the tools we're suppose to learn from and make a better future for all. It is never meant to use as a poor me cause, or to use for destroying the evidence of our biggest mistakes of the past. There is no one in our world alive today that lived during slavery, and we can't fix what doesn't exist in our world today. Our fore fathers realized their mistakes, and that is the reason that slavery was abolished and became illegal in the 1860's, and it hasn't existed in the lives of any human that lives in our country today.

there was a whole lot more said by him than that...

[1]
Posted: Aug 23, 2017 2:14 PM

and I didn't start this thread the mods did. As long as the alt righters post their intolerance on here I will reply with my leftist attitudes. I don't start threads on the main board about politics. And the only time I respond back to a political post is when it is intolerance. Sorry but if you don't like a group of people who make up about 80-85% of our team, then why do you claim to pull for them. If you can't respect them as people, then don't watch them for entertainment value

Liberal logic at its finest

Re: FB Update: ESPN releases statement on moving Robert Lee from UVA game

Posted: Aug 23, 2017 10:57 AM

In an address before the Southern Historical Society in Atlanta, Georgia in 1874, Benjamin Harvey Hill described Lee in this way:

“He was a foe without hate; a friend without treachery; a soldier without cruelty; a victor without oppression, and a victim without murmuring. He was a public officer without vices; a private citizen without wrong; a neighbor without reproach; a Christian without hypocrisy, and a man without guile. He was a Caesar, without his ambition; Frederick, without his tyranny; Napoleon, without his selfishness, and Washington, without his reward.”

Re: FB Update: ESPN releases statement on moving Robert Lee from UVA game

[2]
Posted: Aug 23, 2017 1:43 PM

I think there is more to this people realize. I grew up in the south. I get it. I'm proud that I'm from the state of South Carolina. I understand the history behind all of this. However, I also remember growing up in a small town and I remember what the rebel flag represented during these modern times. When you are driving down the road, and you see someone with rebel flags all over their car, is your first though that this might be a Clemson graduate with a degree in History? No....its not. You know it and I know what those type of people are. They are the types that will roll down the window and scream out the "N" word if someone of color cuts them off in traffic. The symbols of our past have been adopted by many of the hateful individuals in our culture as well as some of the KKK. This is what the young are protesting. If you should be mad at anyone, don't be mad at our kids for demonstrating against hate, be mad at the groups operating on the fringes of our society that used our southern heritage to promote their racist ideology.

If This Weren't So Sad

Re: FB Update: ESPN releases statement on moving Robert Lee from UVA game

Posted: Aug 23, 2017 11:07 AM

Robert Lee, an Asian American , are you kidding??? Apparently this is a result of a generation mired in severe emotional and mental distress caused by a hyperactive, always socially connected generation, always responding to every little nuance of anyone's and everyone's life no matter how insignificant it is, breeding an abnormal sensitivity to anything becoming "viral", ignoring consideration of the fact that no one is resurrecting the Civil War using Confederate statues, except themselves.

false comparison, those involved in the revolutionary war...

Posted: Aug 23, 2017 11:54 AM

kicked out England, they didn't commit treason against the US like the confederates and start the bloodiest war on US soil just to protect their wealth and status in society. There was one person in the Revolutionary War who did commit treason against the US like the confederates did and his name is synonymous with being a treasonous traitor. All confederates were unAmerican treasonous traitors.

Re: false comparison, those involved in the revolutionary war...

Re: false comparison, those involved in the revolutionary war...

The civil war was fought for many reasons, one of which was slavery.Have you ever heard of the Morrill Act? The northern states were levying a huge tariff on the southern states.

Robert E Lee did not believe in the institution of slavery. As a matter of fact, he was willed some slaves by his father in law, and freed them. There were also northern slave states that held onto their slaves until after the Civil War. General Ulysses S Grant, the northern general that Robert E Lee surrendered to, was also a slave owner and did not give up his slaves until forced to, after the war. President Lincoln was not a friend of the slaves.

Lincoln asked Robert E Lee to be a Union general, and he said he was a Virginian first. The people back then identified much more with their state, than the country. That was true across the nation.Their were slave owners on both sides of the Civil War, just as there were non slave owners on both sides. 94% of the people in the South did not own slaves, including Robert E Lee.Slavery was an evil institution that was used at the time by people on both sides of the Civil War. There are still slaves all over the world, of all colors.

There was interest by several of the northern states in seceding at the time. States were considered sovereign, and were set up as so by the Constitution.

The Civil War was fought, as all wars are, for a complicated list of reasons that have to do with the rich and powerful on both sides using the citizen's lives for their own enrichment. Ever heard of "Rich mans war, poor mans fight"?

It was only one reason...

Posted: Aug 23, 2017 2:29 PM

This state started the Civil War and the only reason they listed in the secession papers was slavery. And that was the only reason other states joined in. There isn't a single historical fact, other than preserving slavery, that factored into the start of the Civil War. I've studied that era since I was in elementary school and I have never came across an authentic piece of evidence showing there were other reasons for the Civil War. You didn't live back then, you didn't own slaves, you didn't start the Civil War. So you have no reason to try to justify it, that is unless you have the same hatred in your heart that the confederates did. It happened 150 years ago. Nothing wrong with admitting the truth and living in the present, instead of romanticizing about people who would have sent you off to war without proper gear or even shoes.

In South Carolina 50% owned slaves...

Posted: Aug 23, 2017 2:39 PM

Yeah I know Lincoln's original goal was just to preserve the Union, but he changed his views in how to deal with slavery. The northern states that did have slavery in practice didn't engage in treason to keep it going. The the war was started by one side. The Union didn't carry out a single attack until after secession and the attack on fort Sumter. And you got the constitution wrong, we are the United States of America not a confederation of states.

Re: false comparison, those involved in the revolutionary war...

Posted: Aug 26, 2017 7:45 PM

Secession was not treason! Check out why Jefferson Davis was not given a trial.It was because NORTHERN legal scholars admitted that if Davis received a fair trial for treason, he would NOT be found guilty.The Founding Fathers did not want secession but stated it was a right.

I feel like every single person is missing the point on this

[1]
Posted: Aug 23, 2017 12:32 PM

they moved him to avoid the many memes and insults that would be thrown the announcers way if he were to announce the game. You know there would be tons of people making fun of it and ESPN just preferred to side-step that potential. It's really not about being PC or whatever

Re: What is unbelievable to me…

Re: FB Update: ESPN releases statement on moving Robert Lee from UVA game

Posted: Aug 23, 2017 2:19 PM

I find it a bit ironic because Lee's name will now follow him where ever he goes. This act will forever put a bulls eye on his back and every one with the name Lee will be subject to ridicule. We are always quick to classify people as red necks, white trash., liberals, far right, far left, etc. I wonder what group ESPN has targeted as being the ones making jokes about Lee's presence in Charlottesville.