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Re: Breaking: Sotomayor Made Same “Wise Woman” Speech In 1990s

Originally Posted by phattonez

B (you said more likely, not who will definitely do so), but this is not the same situation. She openly said that her experiences were better than others, meaning that she will use them in decision making and has no problem with that.

The correct answer was C.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Sotomayor Used ‘Wise Latina’ Line More than Once

Judge Sonia Sotomayor’s controversial remark about wise Latina judges has appeared in more than one speech.

Sotomayor frequently remarked on her ethnicity and gender in 84 speeches released by the White House yesterday, according to reports in the New York Times and the Washington Post. The speeches by Sotomayor, who is of Puerto Rican descent, show the Supreme Court nominee “is driven by a powerful ethnic pride and a belief that she has an obligation to lift up fellow people of color,” the Post says.

Earlier reports of the controversial remark identified a 2001 law speech at the University of California at Berkeley in which Sotomayor said the ethnicity and sex of a judge “may and will make a difference in our judging.”

“I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life,” said Sotomayor, who is of Puerto Rican descent.

The Washington Post found another 1999 speech to the Women's Bar Association of New York State in which Sotomayor referred to "sister power" and used similar phrasing. "I would hope that a wise woman with the richness of her experiences would, more often than not, reach a better conclusion," she said.

The Times said Sotomayor made the wise judging comment, referring to women generally, in 1994. Then in 2003 she said a “wise Latina woman” would “reach a better conclusion,” although she didn’t say better than whom.

The White House argues that Sotomayor has explained that she is impartial despite her references to her background. It points to a speech in which she said, “I have to unhook myself from my emotional responses and try to stay within my unemotional, objective persona.”

Other Sotomayor quotes published in the Times and Post stories:

“Somewhere all of us Puerto Ricans and people of color have had a defining moment when we were shocked into learning that we were different and that American society treated us differently. … The shock and sense of being an alien will never again, I suspect, be as profound for any of us as that first experience, because I know from personal experience that our education and professional training have equipped us to deal better in this sometimes alien land.”

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

Re: Breaking: Sotomayor Made Same “Wise Woman” Speech In 1990s

Originally Posted by RightinNYC

The correct answer was C.

I think I presented you with a pretty good argument why the answer was B. You can't just say the answer is C and be done with it. I know you want the answer to be C, but I don't think it is as clear as you think it is.

Re: Breaking: Sotomayor Made Same “Wise Woman” Speech In 1990s

Originally Posted by phattonez

I think I presented you with a pretty good argument why the answer was B. You can't just say the answer is C and be done with it. I know you want the answer to be C, but I don't think it is as clear as you think it is.

Do you have any evidence to support your argument that simply because someone says that personal experience necessarily affects judgment, they are more likely to let it happen than someone who publicly denies that it happens that often?

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Re: Breaking: Sotomayor Made Same “Wise Woman” Speech In 1990s

Originally Posted by RightinNYC

Do you have any evidence to support your argument that simply because someone says that personal experience necessarily affects judgment, they are more likely to let it happen than someone who publicly denies that it happens that often?

The person who says that personal experience does not affect judgment will try harder to separate his emotions from his decision. The person who accepts that it is there will try less to separate his emotions from his decision. That's how I would bet my money.

Besides:

Originally Posted by phattonez

B (you said more likely, not who will definitely do so), but this is not the same situation. She openly said that her experiences were better than others, meaning that she will use them in decision making and has no problem with that.

Re: Breaking: Sotomayor Made Same “Wise Woman” Speech In 1990s

Originally Posted by phattonez

The person who says that personal experience does not affect judgment will try harder to separate his emotions from his decision. The person who accepts that it is there will try less to separate his emotions from his decision. That's how I would bet my money.

Besides:

But you have absolutely no way of knowing that based solely on those facts.

A plausible argument could be made that the person who acknowledges the effect that personal experience has on decision-making is thus more prepared to limit its impact than someone who refuses to admit that it exists.

Who's more likely to get hit by a car while crossing the street - the person who acknowledges that you can get hit by cars and thus keeps their head up, or the person who refuses to acknowledge the existence of cars altogether or denies that they could ever hit him?

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Re: Breaking: Sotomayor Made Same “Wise Woman” Speech In 1990s

Originally Posted by RightinNYC

But you have absolutely no way of knowing that based solely on those facts.

A plausible argument could be made that the person who acknowledges the effect that personal experience has on decision-making is thus more prepared to limit its impact than someone who refuses to admit that it exists.

Who's more likely to get hit by a car while crossing the street - the person who acknowledges that you can get hit by cars and thus keeps their head up, or the person who refuses to acknowledge the existence of cars altogether or denies that they could ever hit him?

But she's saying more than that. She's not just acknowledging it, she's saying that there is a scale of experiences and that her's is better than others.

Re: Breaking: Sotomayor Made Same “Wise Woman” Speech In 1990s

But she's saying more than that. She's not just acknowledging it, she's saying that there is a scale of experiences and that her's is better than others.

Again, I still don't see how that proves your argument. Everyone thinks their opinion is better than that of others, otherwise it wouldn't be their opinion.

Why does it matter if Sotomayor thinks her opinion is better because she's a latina chick while Scalia thinks his opinion is better because he says he doesn't let his personal views affect his jurisprudence? From my perspective, the effect will often be the same.

The only time there is cause for concern is when a judge is using their personal experience as a substitute for their logical reasoning to the detriment of the law moreso than would otherwise happen with a judge who professes not to let his experiences impact his decision-making. If someone wants to make that argument re: Sotomayor, they're more than welcome. I just haven't really heard it yet.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Re: Breaking: Sotomayor Made Same “Wise Woman” Speech In 1990s

Again, I still don't see how that proves your argument. Everyone thinks their opinion is better than that of others, otherwise it wouldn't be their opinion.

She didn't just say herself, she said everyone like her.

Why does it matter if Sotomayor thinks her opinion is better because she's a latina chick while Scalia thinks his opinion is better because he says he doesn't let his personal views affect his jurisprudence? From my perspective, the effect will often be the same.

Not the same. Sotomayor will look to her emotions while Scalia will look to the law. Huge difference for society.