Um yeah...who the fark sold/suggested you chocolate wine? Adding cocoa is a beer/liquor thing, can't imagine it as a wine thing./Bartends every now and then loves beer, not a wine fan. Rogue makes a decent chocolate stout though.

andrewmoriarty:Why does everything have to be a competition with Americans?

Sometimes is a good thing. It causes the products to be better, less expensive. However, Cheaper usually means less quality. I'm personally for quality over quantity. If anything I've seen recently is that quality is disregarded by the masses and It's pathetic.

andrewmoriarty: Why does everything have to be a competition with Americans?

serious answer warning: check out michael sandel's relatively new book - "what money can't buy - the moral limits of markets." In a nutshell, public virtues being crowded out by market virtues for a pretty apt discussion of why.

I wouldn't come from the direction of this being a American quantity/quality thing unless you take in to account the United States has much more wine friendly land by volume than France does. Napa Valley, Loess Hills, etc, the United States just has that much more fertile soil for a wide variety of crops including wine grapes. So, we're really only held back by the comparably shorter history of experience, but that's just a matter of time.

I've been drinking wine, legally, since the early 70s. Back then, there were a few good American wines, most were on the level of what, in those days, were marketed as French Country wines - decent, drinkable and good for everyday use but nothing great. Since then, American wines from a lot of areas have improved substantially. Something I've noticed is that American wineries have standardized the process so that, year after year, they produce decent wines and that vintage has less to do with the quality than the European wines, especially French. It seems, to me at least, that while a domestic wine will never achieve the greatness of a first growth Bordeaux in a vintage year, they also never have a skunky year like so often happened with many of the French clarets.

In my opinion, again, this has helped popularize wine drinking. It used to be that you not only had to be familiar with a lot of the vineyards and know their relative quality level, you had to keep track of which vintages and, for most folks, that was simply too much work. Now, you can find a brand you like and know that the quality will be pretty much uniform across the years.

An American friend is helping develop China's viniculture. He lives in Auckland, New Zealand and says, "The vineyard that we're developing with the Chinese has more capacity than the entire Kiwi wine industry."

Omnivorous:An American friend is helping develop China's viniculture. He lives in Auckland, New Zealand and says, "The vineyard that we're developing with the Chinese has more capacity than the entire Kiwi wine industry."

The Chinese want to do every thing bigger. I wonder if their vineyard will end up like their empty mega mall twice the size of the mall of America.

About our wine : I've gotten to the point where I'm willing to try almost any wine made in my state. I've been attending wine-tasting festivals for Indiana vintners for the past decade and I've found that while the reputation for excellence isn't there yet, the taste IS. I'm no expert and I'm sure there are wine snobs who would laugh at my personal ignorance of world wine. But, I've learned that you don't have to pay $40+ and have it cross an ocean to get a good bottle. I'm not ashamed that I can enjoy a $10-15 bottle, especially if i'm supporting my local economy by purchasing from people who are doing it right here.

I like many French wines. What I don't like is having to wait 10-15 years for that Bordeaux I spent $100 on to even approach "drinkability".

The myth, however, that America wines are all high alcohol or total cheap "bulk" wines is ridiculous though. The American wine industry is huge, and the wines available cover the spectrum. Don't like 15+% ABV wines ? There are plenty of excellent wines from Napa and Sonoma that are made in a more reserved style. However why wouldn't they take advantage of California's unique geography, which allows them to produce these "bigger" wines, since there is a large market for them.

As far as most of American's wines being cheap junk, there's plenty of that table wine industry in France as well. I will say, though, the bulk wines made in America are far less interesting to me on average than, say, the 'peasant' Italian table wines.

All I know is big wine production equals bigger wine selection and lower overall prices ... so I think the trend is great news for American wine drinkers.

Summoner101:I wouldn't come from the direction of this being a American quantity/quality thing unless you take in to account the United States has much more wine friendly land by volume than France does. Napa Valley, Loess Hills, etc, the United States just has that much more fertile soil for a wide variety of crops including wine grapes. So, we're really only held back by the comparably shorter history of experience, but that's just a matter of time.

The better it supposedly is, the more it tastes like an old gym sock to me.

obligatory : you know what old gym socks taste like?

on a side note. why are there so many ignorant anti-france Americans? This country wouldn't even exist without France.

There aren't that many ignorant anti-France Americans. There are, however, lots of educated anti-Paris Americans. Most of the French are great folks and no one should ignore their contribution to our country - nor our subsequent efforts at returning the favor (which, oddly enough, you fail to mention). However, Parisians can suck it. As a general rule, they represent the worst of their country - just like a flag shirt wearing redneck from Alabama.

The better it supposedly is, the more it tastes like an old gym sock to me.

obligatory : you know what old gym socks taste like?

on a side note. why are there so many ignorant anti-france Americans? This country wouldn't even exist without France.

There aren't that many ignorant anti-France Americans. There are, however, lots of educated anti-Paris Americans. Most of the French are great folks and no one should ignore their contribution to our country - nor our subsequent efforts at returning the favor (which, oddly enough, you fail to mention). However, Parisians can suck it. As a general rule, they represent the worst of their country - just like a flag shirt wearing redneck from Alabama.

The better it supposedly is, the more it tastes like an old gym sock to me.

obligatory : you know what old gym socks taste like?

on a side note. why are there so many ignorant anti-france Americans? This country wouldn't even exist without France.

There aren't that many ignorant anti-France Americans. There are, however, lots of educated anti-Paris Americans. Most of the French are great folks and no one should ignore their contribution to our country - nor our subsequent efforts at returning the favor (which, oddly enough, you fail to mention). However, Parisians can suck it. As a general rule, they represent the worst of their country - just like a flag shirt wearing redneck from Alabama.

Omnivorous:An American friend is helping develop China's viniculture. He lives in Auckland, New Zealand and says, "The vineyard that we're developing with the Chinese has more capacity than the entire Kiwi wine industry."

They have nothing to worry about. The fact that a lot of people would never drink wine from china is not going to change any time soon, no matter how much wine china produces...

Maul555:Omnivorous: An American friend is helping develop China's viniculture. He lives in Auckland, New Zealand and says, "The vineyard that we're developing with the Chinese has more capacity than the entire Kiwi wine industry."

They have nothing to worry about. The fact that a lot of people would never drink wine from china is not going to change any time soon, no matter how much wine china produces...

Maul555:Omnivorous: An American friend is helping develop China's viniculture. He lives in Auckland, New Zealand and says, "The vineyard that we're developing with the Chinese has more capacity than the entire Kiwi wine industry."

They have nothing to worry about. The fact that a lot of people would never drink wine from china is not going to change any time soon, no matter how much wine china produces...