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00:02:41 madnificent: T
00:04:14 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3211-ipbf2908marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"]
00:04:20 madnificent: perhaps we can assume IRC to be an OPFR of sorts :)
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00:10:11 drewc: I've made an ad-hoc implemantation of something similar to migrations, as cl-migrations was quite dirty at first sight. Are you interested in something like that?
00:10:17 michaelw: OPFR?
00:10:39 outer parenthesis free repl?
00:10:58 could be
00:11:24 minion: what does OPFR stand for?
00:11:25 Overrunner Pereiopod Faced Remedial
00:11:52 yes,
00:12:09 michaelw: wouldn't be a bad idea... but wouldn't users be global variables? (and thus named *madnificent* instead of madnificent)
00:13:45 message passing: name: herep
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00:29:29 hi
00:29:32 dfox_ [n=dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp
00:29:44 hello Quadrescence
00:30:42 hello
00:30:44 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp
00:30:47 i lyke penors
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00:34:59 *fusss* is trolling for any info on hunchentoot performance changes from 0.x to 1.0 wrt dynamic content
00:35:20 bhkinjhrfd
00:38:03 pleased?
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00:39:43 madnificent: i'd love to have a look!
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00:41:36 *fusss* advises all would be gui/web-app developers to use the "pencil" plugin for firefox. useful little thing it is.
00:42:09 drewc: failing me didn't select #lisp http://paste.lisp.org/display/78655
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00:43:04 drewc: lacks detection of the current database scheme (and I'm too lazy to add it) and something external that does the with-db (you use db for that (at least in the rofl info))
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00:44:16 drewc: LoL, there's even an error in it. In any case the goal is clear
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00:46:40 *madnificent* heads to bed
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00:56:48 madnificent: that look more like a lispy version than the cl-migrations codebase... a lot simpler too.
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01:46:41 How do I execute two if a condition is t? I'm doing (if (cond) ( (loop ...) (foobar ...) ) ) but that's not working...
01:47:11 two functions*
01:47:28 (when (cond) (first) (second))
01:47:30 apo: why would you think that would possibly work? Do you understand the evaluation model of CL?
01:47:57 drewc: if is a special form, it could do some magic
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01:48:18 drewc: Sometimes ;) I've only been learning CL for two days
01:48:22 stassats`: Thanks!
01:48:23 clhs if
01:48:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_if.htm
01:48:29 but it doesn't! :)
01:49:37 apo: parens are not used for 'grouping' in lisp. have a look at PROGN, or COND, or as stassats` said... WHEN
01:50:42 apo: what text are you using to learn CL?
01:51:37 drewc: I've read parts of http://www.cs.sfu.ca/CC/310/pwfong/Lisp/ and am now trying to do some Project Euler questions
01:51:49 minion: pcl?
01:51:50 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
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01:54:40 apo: what he said :) PCL is a much better text, especially if you are already familiar with programming in general
01:55:01 Alright.
01:55:24 The only language I've really learned before this was C, so this is quite a change... ;)
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01:57:55 apo: yeah, you're damaged good now :)
01:58:05 drewc: Hey! I like C.
01:58:27 drewc: but now it's more challenging
01:58:35 apo: that's ok, you're still learning :)
01:58:53 rewiring neurons is always fun
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01:59:51 Hehe
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02:12:30 \o/ my horrible trial division prime finder is working
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02:16:36 *stassats`* finds, that his programming experience can be measured by the speed of prime finding programs he could write
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02:18:40 awesome, perhaps you can speed up msieve
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02:20:56 i guess, the right word was "proportional"
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02:45:38 Is there a very simple csv parser in clbuild?
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02:46:30 is there a simple way to convert decimal to binary in common lisp?
02:46:46 textually?
02:46:57 yes
02:46:59 (write 10 :base 2)
02:47:41 who would have thought that stassats would have a simple one-line answer to my dumb ass question once again
02:47:44 thanks buddy
02:48:09 or write-to-string if you want a string
02:48:59 ChopperDave: http://members.optusnet.com.au/apicard/csv-parser.lisp ... don't know if it's any good but it's just a single file
02:50:01 Heh, that looks like what OnshoreD uses
02:50:12 minion: fare-csv?
02:50:13 fare-csv: fare-csv is a small Text utility to process CSV files. http://www.cliki.net/fare-csv
02:51:30 Thanks guys
02:51:46 now to hope this excel spreadsheet goes to csv simply enough
02:52:38 isismelting: fwiw, if you like binary very much, you could set *read-base* to 2. and *print-base* 2.
02:54:05 excellent, thanks stassats
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02:54:30 yeah, I recently upgraded fare-csv, which used to suck, to now be better than apicard's
02:55:11 fare-csv links to docs about CSV and tricks to know if you want to communicate w/ Excel thru it
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02:55:52 isismelting, (format t "~2R" #b10110011)
02:56:02 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl14-70-11.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp
02:56:13 is ~B same as ~2R ?
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02:56:37 should be
02:57:06 Tordek [n=tordek@host117.190-138-159.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp
02:57:22 that just gave me the string after #b
02:57:27 er the 10110011
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02:57:44 (format t "~2R" #b10110011)
02:58:04 that's binary, isn't it?
02:58:32 Fare: I'm just taking an Excel spreadsheet, getting csv out of it, and then am using that as a data import
02:58:35 #b is a reader syntax for binaries
02:59:15 #nR is for arbitrary radix (no more than 36)
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03:00:47 Fare dropped out pretty quickly. I guess mentioning fare-csv probably woke him up sleeping under his desk or something!
03:00:50 :)
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03:16:39 hello
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03:23:54 if you're writing (format t "~a in decimal is ~b in binary" number number) is there a way to not write number twice -- something about this seems messy
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03:25:02 that's normal c format behaviour
03:25:20 like %d %n %s
03:25:29 lol
03:25:47 i'm passing the variable number to a function is what
03:25:48 (format t "~d in decimal is ~:*~b in binary" 42)
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03:26:14 the guy I'm working with doesn't have sbcl because there doesn't seem to be a stable Windows port out
03:26:26 stassats - i feel like i should be paying you
03:26:37 Clozure OpenMCL is basically the same thing, right?
03:28:10 isismelting: no, it's beneficial for me too, i'll remember it better that way
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04:22:12 dammit I immediately thought of a clever response to tweek__'s question but per is gone :/
04:23:07 here is a clever question you can respond to. how do you like hunchentoot 1.0 vs 0.15.7, performance wise? :-)
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04:29:00 anyone using slime. I just insall slime, but it Aborting.
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04:38:35 which os?
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04:40:56 sb-sprof:with-profiling (:mode :time .... ) seems to have some problems. No sampling!
04:41:14 modes :cpu and :alloc seem ok.
04:41:23 v 1.0.25
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04:49:45 Ah, with :mode :cpu it also fails to loop.
04:50:55 So :mode :time, just exits with no samples, :mode :cpu will do one run and exit, :mode :alloc seems fine
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05:16:39 wentbackward: i really hope you get an answer for that. i briefly looked at profiling in sbcl and didn't see much happening.
05:18:21 wentbackward: try to increase :max-samples?
05:19:54 I've been playing around with it. With a sufficiently heavy workload, :cpu starts to loop until reaching :max-samples. I'm now testing this (:cpu) with my code that I want profiled.
05:20:15 :time just doesn't do anything. As my code is heavily IO bound, that's a real drag for me!
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05:27:42 the more i learn javascript the more i'm freaked out by what it can do
05:30:39 You might find this interesting: http://video.yahoo.com/watch/111593. I only got to the point where he says Javascript is a functional language like Lisp and Haskell. But I've heard the talks are very useful
05:32:21 is that crockford?
05:32:27 i have The Good Parts
05:32:52 like lisp, not haskell
05:34:09 Something like that. But anyhow I felt it was a throwaway comment and still whinging about javascript being misunderstood. I will watch it as recommended by other programmers whom I respect.
05:34:26 just get firebug and play with its repl
05:34:44 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
05:34:59 for good measure, read this sensationalistic trade article. i just tested it tonight and i can concur: http://www.clickz.com/3632667
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05:35:00 spradnyesh [n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-7bc2467a71cb3fe7] has joined #lisp
05:35:00 And because I've just completed a project with a Dojo UI hooked up to hunchentoot. It's actually very nice
05:35:11 :-)
05:35:27 i use YUI and jquery
05:35:46 mainly because i insist on not learning web development properly
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05:37:23 I'm trying to turn my clients onto lisp on the server side. I have some work to do on the authentication part and I guess I now need to check the HT 1.0 docs
05:37:51 you made the switch to 1.0.0? a bit hackish, no?
05:38:10 Hans says they're going to rewrite the error handling mechanism
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05:38:31 i probably wont jump ship til 1.1.x
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05:39:03 *stassats`* is too lazy to rewrite his two-page homepage for ht-1.0
05:39:11 hey, does anybody know which cairo library is the best one listed on cliki?
05:39:13 The site that's using 1 is a bit conceptual anyhow. Uses the latest everything.
05:39:43 But will be put live this w/e!
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05:41:18 koft: if any of them uses CFFI take it
05:42:03 *fusss* is unable to evaluate js in IE 7's address bar with the javascript: protocol. IE refusing to execute something?
05:42:21 i found one that does, i'mma try it, the one in clbuild can't fetch
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05:42:52 koft: what are the libraries you're looking at?
05:43:25 http://www.cliki.net/cffi-cairo
05:43:46 oh crap, 2:00 rolling on soon, gott a do a beer run
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05:43:59 Ok the :cpu problem seems to have been related to me killing runs whilst profiling. I think I must have somehow killed it during cleanup and it left some flags set.
05:44:07 So now I only have a problem with :mode :time
05:44:12 from my experience, if you want vector graphics and don't care much for image manipulation, then c-vecto is it.
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05:44:44 where is 2:00AM last call and how can i move there? i made my run at 11:56, had 4 minutes
05:45:44 limit is 23h here
05:46:02 except for bars of course
05:46:27 and in Jersey they don't sell beer in 7/11; pussies
05:47:19 strange thing, in my city they're some troubles getting vodka after 11pm
05:47:51 and that's in russia...
05:47:59 any strong liquor is only available in government liquor stores here, but beer and wine are found everywhere up to 23h
05:49:18 in Montreal that is
05:49:47 *stassats`* doesn't quite get these rules
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05:54:18 moving everything over to asdf was an amazingly stupid idea
05:55:13 this homework assignment, someone else asked to work with me. I don't normally do that, but I decided, what the hell, why not
05:55:14 *fusss* *hearts* russia
05:55:36 he uses Windows for development, that alone should have raised a bunch of red flags
05:55:52 I just spent about a half hour trying to figure out how to make sbcl find asdf packages in Windows
05:56:10 why bother using a build system, designed to make life easier, if it doesn't
05:56:22 w/ the graphics stuff, i'm just looking for something that will let me draw points and lines
05:56:24 (push #p"C:/foo/bar" asdf:*central-registry*)
05:56:27 tried that
05:56:45 fusss: in Soviet Russia, hearts fusss you
05:56:49 i'm pretty new to lisp and i learn a language best when i can do some simple graphics stuff
05:56:55 I keep leaving stuff for him to do, but I keep somehow making it harder for him to even run the damn thing
05:57:05 what the hell do I do now?
05:57:33 rewrite everything in python
05:57:54 koft: Cairo is too heavy weight for you right now, Vecto and cl-gd should do what you want
05:57:55 i got cl-opengl up and running on the mac but i need to learn more lisp to do anything interesting at this point
05:57:56 koft: I liked toying with lispbuilder-sdl for simple tests here, as I was familiar with sdl+C already
05:58:16 tweek__: I insist that my partners use some kind of POSIX-shellish environment, OS X, Linux or even cygwin.
05:58:25 yeah yeah I don't get that luxury
05:58:40 sbcl isn't even installed on the linux machines in the lab, ffs
05:58:55 fuck, man, I should have just told him now
05:58:59 no*
05:59:06 tweek__: I literally tell them it's how it is if they want to run my build environment :p [and then I still have to add the stupid hacks for windows :-/]
05:59:14 you're learning Lisp in school. *sigh*.
05:59:19 oh cool cl-gd looks like exactly what i want
05:59:32 tweek__: can it be self-installed?
05:59:35 koft: and most of all, enjoy yourself
05:59:59 thanks for the pointers
06:00:03 so, what, I write a batch file, or a MSI, or something
06:00:03 so, I'm trying to do some Netflix data mining. while loading the training set (hash table keyed on user id, value is hash table of movie and rating), clisp dies at user 5762 (out of 480,189) with a segfault. SBCL dies with a "heap exhausted" error, even earlier than clisp. am I doing something horribly wrong?
06:00:08 that installs sbcl
06:00:09 *fusss* has a line that loads all the asdf systems on his machine into asdf:*central-registry* somewhere, but he is too drunk to find it
06:00:22 puts in a .sbclrc with the *central-registry* crap set up correctly
06:00:35 then places the files in the correct spots
06:00:40 yeah, it's in .sbclrc
06:00:49 jli: are you sure that hash tables is the right data structure?
06:01:12 Netflix
06:01:16 god that was what, two years ago
06:01:21 and no one has even come close
06:01:45 (dolist (dir (directory "C:/site-systems/*/")) ; or wherever your repo is
06:01:47 (pushnew (make-pathname :directory (pathname-directory dir) :type "asd")
06:01:49 asdf:*central-registry*))
06:01:54 tweek__, false. top slot on the leaderboard has a 9.65% improvement, .35% away from the prize
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06:02:18 tweek__: if you solve netflix you solve ecommerce :-)
06:02:27 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp
06:02:28 or targeted marketing aspects of it
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06:02:49 I guess I'm too used to figures like '50% more accurate'
06:02:54 stassats`, it's the first thing that came to mind. can you give me any suggestions or pointers?
06:03:03 10% is probably huge to marketers, I guess
06:03:15 jli: search c.l.l for some ideas
06:03:17 Hello
06:03:41 tweek__: 5% improvement on a business process and you think of IPO/patent/sale
06:04:14 tweek__, perhaps you should try your hand at it before sneezing at 10% ;)
06:05:10 AI is hyped in the media as the last invention anyone will ever need to perfect
06:05:12 to no end
06:05:36 huh?
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06:11:54 `;;.
06:14:02 huh
06:14:31 koft: take a look at http://www.pawfal.org/fluxus/ or http://impromptu.moso.com.au/ if you want graphics in a hurry. Depends on what graphics you want though!
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06:34:10 drewc: what's going on sailor?!
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06:41:10 good morning
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06:45:27 sorry folks .. ferrets type when i forget to close the laptop :)
06:46:02 (btw: go canucks!)
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06:51:33 When working in my dev environment, typically I have declaim (optimize debug) set. If then wish to run with (optimize speed) should I delete all the fasl? - SBCL in particular
06:52:37 lol
06:52:50 drewc: are you a fellow canuckian ?
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06:56:26 ok, so I've found multiple references to "napcar" in an old common lisp file. what is it?
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06:58:32 A way to indicate something destructive with mapcar maybe?
06:58:56 hmmm
06:59:15 it does seem to have the same type signature as mapcar
07:00:04 *woopdeedoo* considers trolling drewc with a 'go calgary' in the chan
07:00:06 *hmmm*
07:01:00 napcar is the old lazy evaluation function in LispM that applied a function to the CAR of a list, and only evaluated the function when its result was used.
07:01:59 i.e. it blocked, or took a nap .. (yeah, i'm joking, it's a typographica error, or maybe a ViewPort error in the human perceptor ;-)
07:02:26 fusss: aaah. so if I replace it with mapcar I'll hit a performance penalty but no logical problems? (assuming no side effects)
07:02:43 hahahaha, i win at trolling :-P
07:03:01 *sohum* headdesk
07:03:03 this you do
07:03:20 there is no napcar; napcar is what the homeless used to crash in when they're stranded in a train station.
07:03:41 lol
07:03:59 this is fucking funy, though i'm drunk :-D hahahahahaha
07:05:27 bash.org, someone
07:05:55 brb, coughing outside
07:06:00 if you aren't making fun of black people you will never get it post it bash
07:06:15 *fusss* is black :-S
07:06:28 you have access to the jokes!
07:06:31 go for it :)
07:07:27 "Sometimes the jokes don't make the man" -- George Michael, in a Yorkshire public restroom
07:07:35 heh
07:09:38 woopdeedoo: 2-1 vancity!
07:09:54 haha!
07:10:01 dude right on, glad to see lispers here
07:10:11 stumpwm is coded up by some lispers from here too
07:10:32 *drewc* is a stumpwm user
07:10:44 i'm a convert too
07:11:25 do you use it with multiple monitors?
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07:12:36 woopdeedoo: cow town is going to whoop chi town though, no doubt. :)
07:12:37 not yet, i haveto get a second one here tho
07:12:57 drewc: hehe, canuckistanis are sucking once again, indeed
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07:26:50 where can I find a format reference that includes ~/ ?
07:27:05 clhs ~/
07:27:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_ced.htm
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07:27:43 that's a smart bot. thankee
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07:33:26 If my programme is spending a lot of time in SB-PCL::SAFE-METHOD-SPECIALIZERS, what might it be doing. I'm finding it really hard to trace back where this is being called from
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07:40:11 drewc: its cleaner to use, but it lacks some features (and it a name)
07:41:24 wentbackward: sb-pcl means you're in CLOS neverland
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07:46:51 Ah, it seems the statistical profiler cannot reliably build a call graph.
07:48:03 sorry morning, s/it a/it lacks a/
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07:56:29 'morning
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08:04:50 moin trebor_dki
08:06:25 is there a function that sorts a list non-destructively? I'm manually copying the list before sorting now
08:07:13 madnificent: Yes: (defun sort* (x &rest args) (apply (function sort) (copy-sequence x) args))
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08:07:48 madnificent: Why do you do things manually, when you have a whole programming language to automatize things!?!?!
08:07:59 matimago: ITYM copy-seq
08:08:07 Yes.
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08:12:48 matimago: LoL, I used copy-list... but that was the 'manual' that I was referring to :)
08:13:55 I felt it would be rather dull to not use a built-in (perhaps optimised) non-destructive sorting function if it would exist
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08:16:54 madnificent: of course, but it doesn't exist.
08:18:01 matimago: that's probably what he was asking ... ;)
08:20:32 incf fiveop
08:20:50 and thanks
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08:39:27 fiveop: "is there x" vs. "is there x in CL"
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