Paul Wheaton and Jocelyn Campbell talk about how permies.com got started. Paul shares about his lawn care article and needing help managing his emails. He then talks about the difference between making nature "your personal bitch" and working with nature. Aligned with nature, you can do 100 times more. He tells how maybe 10,000 years ago, the Sahara used to be a lush jungle until folks chopped down trees to start agriculture. Paul sees permaculture as a direction rather than a specific something. He also wants to emphasize how to be good rather than pointing out what is bad. He and Jocelyn share about taking a permaculture design course (PDC). Paul talks about Sepp Holzer, and the PDC experience. He compares the typical garden to Sepp Holzer's approach. He does nothing but harvest, and gives an example of polyculture: there is an exchange of nutrients and water between a pea plant and a tap-rooted oak tree, especially with the help of undisturbed soil components such as mycelium. With tilling, you release 30% of the organic matter into the atmosphere. He mentions Helen Atthowe's knowledge of soil. The value of animals in the system, and ponds. Sepp doesn't feed his fish. He has entered into alignment with the ecosystem, and they always have food. Paul's not a huge fan of aquaponics because they are reliant on humans. Sepp Holzer lives in the Austrian Alps, and yet he grows citrus. Paul talks about farming on a mountainside as opposed to a valley. Paul and Jocelyn wrap up the podcast saying listeners can make podcast topic requests or ask questions podcast topic requests or ask questions, and help by participating in the tinkering forum and navigating reddit. Lastly, they share about Masanobu Fukuoka and "do-nothing farming."

Good intro to Permaculture for those who are interested in learning how to change the way they live and grow food that may never heard of it before. Also, by mentioning Sepp Holzer you are leading those new to Permaculture to the master.