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Re: BSA Girls

It's one more instance of a wonderful institution being beaten into something grotesque by those that are terribly unhappy people. And they won't be happy after they or their daughters can join the "Boy Scouts".

Re: BSA Girls

The head of the Girl Scouts is accusing the Boy Scouts of America of a "covert campaign to recruit girls," as a way to boost flagging membership, according to a scathing letter published by BuzzFeed News.

"We are confused as to why, rather than working to appeal to the 90 percent of boys who are not involved in BSA programs, you would choose to target girls," Kathy Hopinkah Hannan, Girl Scouts of the USA's national president, wrote in the letter sent to the Boy Scouts national president on Monday.

"The Boy Scouts has been exploring the benefits of bringing Scouting to every member of the family – boys and girls," Boy Scouts of America spokeswoman Effie Delimarkos tells NPR. She says that exploration is based on "numerous requests from families," but that no decision has been made yet.

The letter follows what The New York Times characterizes as a "tense phone conversation" between executives of both organizations "about possible substantial changes at the Boy Scouts."

In the letter, Hopinkah Hannan said that Girl Scout leadership has tried to engage in an open dialogue with the Boy Scouts about the matter. She said she was disappointed to learn that the Boy Scouts have been "surreptitiously testing the appeal of a girls' offering to millennial parents."

But the Boy Scouts' Delimarkos told BuzzFeed that the organization has spent months trying to engage the Girl Scouts. "We are disheartened to see the Girl Scouts pull away from the possibility of cooperation to help address the needs of today's busy families," she said.

For more than a century, both the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts have operated as separate but similar organizations, seeking to train millions of young people to be leaders; to be brave, friendly and strong and to honor "God and country."

Since their founding, Hopinkah Hannan says the two organizations "have worked in a respectful and complimentary manner."

But she says the Boy Scouts' "plan" would only serve to "undercut" the Girl Scouts.

Last spring reports began to emerge that the Boy Scouts had opened the door to the idea of bringing in girls. In May, Delimarkos told NBC News that leaders were discussing how "to meet the needs of today's families, which include dual earners and single-parent households."

In fact, the Boy Scouts already offer several co-ed programs and have for years. They include Venturing and Exploring, which bring activities and career training to boys and girls.

Hopinkah Hannan said a co-ed model goes against "research supporting single gender programming."

But Delimarkos maintains that "The Boy Scouts of America believes in the benefit of single-gender programs."

To what extent the Boy Scouts intend to welcome girls remains unclear.

It has been a time of change for the group. In January the Boy Scouts announced the organization will accept transgender boys. In 2015, it ended a ban on gay leaders, two years after accepting gay youth.

Delimarkos told The Times that Boy Scouts executives have reached out to the Girl Scouts since receiving the letter and hope to meet soon. "There is an opportunity for both of us to do more," she said.

Re: BSA Girls

No. The answer is not the inclusion of girls in the Boy Scouts. Rather, it is the creation of a Girl Scouts that offers the same kinds of opportunities and experiences. The problem is that as I understand it, the current Girl Scouts program does not do that.

Re: BSA Girls

But, apparently, that's not what the OP was referring to when he typed the (admittedly ambiguous) acronym... BSA.

As to the OP's question - I'd be against it. But I don't feel strongly about it. Mostly I'd agree with Brian Y's #9. I was also a Cub Scout and Boy Scout. Having them turned into co-ed organizations wouldn't be a terrible thing... but it would be a different thing, and not clearly better overall.

Re: BSA Girls

There are, to my mind, advantages in having some activities and organizations co-ed, but others not. Boys and Girls aren't interchangeable, for all that they like many of the same activities, eh? Development timelines are different, which will affect how one would run an activity differently to better suited 13 year old girls rather than 13 year old boys; in some cases, a mixed gender activity for 13 year olds wouldn't really hit best practices for either.

My kids have worked at summer camps and teaching karate and swimming for years now. The girls only camps and boys only camps for the same ages have a different flavour, as do coed camps for the same age groups. Girls tend to do some aspects of karate a lot better a lot sooner, typically having more control of their limbs and more ability to focus on details of movement. Boys, frankly, are better ultimately, despite their delayed physical skills, because they are much more interested in aggression.

As David said, a coed org isn't necessarily better or worse, but will be different. And as advocates for girls-only schools and classes for math etc observe, there is value in some gender divided activities.

If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

Re: BSA Girls

Originally Posted by BrianY

No. The answer is not the inclusion of girls in the Boy Scouts. Rather, it is the creation of a Girl Scouts that offers the same kinds of opportunities and experiences. The problem is that as I understand it, the current Girl Scouts program does not do that.

We were just discussing that at home. Girls should be given the opportunities and experiences the boys have. Selling cookies ain't it.
It is an archaic organization in that respect.

Re: BSA Girls

The Campfire Girls (now simply Campfire) have been co-ed since 1975. Also non-sectarian and, as-of 1993, agnostic as to sexual orientation. They even pre-date the Girl Scouts, albeit by just a couple of years (1910 vs 1912).

Re: BSA Girls

camping? it sure would curtail finishing a joke while peeing in the bushes

The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
Personal failures are too important to be trusted to others.

Re: BSA Girls

Originally Posted by BrianY

No. The answer is not the inclusion of girls in the Boy Scouts. Rather, it is the creation of a Girl Scouts that offers the same kinds of opportunities and experiences. The problem is that as I understand it, the current Girl Scouts program does not do that.

Re: BSA Girls

I was a Boy Scout ( Life Scout). My youngest daughter is a Girl Scout. Her troop performs similar civic activity and community service, but there is no emphasis woodcraft and camping. They do, " camp," but it involves a cabin or lean-to, not a tent; they were driven in, they did not hike there; cooking is done in a campground cafeteria not over a campfire; the latrine is a restroom, not a ditch they dig themselves.

What they do that my Boy Scout Troop didn't, is attend concerts, plays and other cultural events.

Kevin

There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

Re: BSA Girls

Originally Posted by cbcc

It's one more instance of a wonderful institution being beaten into something grotesque by those that are terribly unhappy people. And they won't be happy after they or their daughters can join the "Boy Scouts".

I'm not in favor.

Are females bad? Will they do harm? Where does "terribly unhappy people" come from?
Males and females learning and working together is "grotesque"?
Are you some sort of Saudi princ?

Re: BSA Girls

My nephews Scout Troop's girls have never sold a 'cookie' in the US model. OTOH at the Group fete sausages, cakes, scones tea and coffee were on offer along with damper and johnny cakes.
The organisation seems to be much less military in it's operation than the US seems, at least his troop does. But then there is a much healthier attitude to flags and such here it seems to me. There are 4 generations of cub/scouts/scouters in our family.

There are the girl guides, a sister organisation, but I don't know how there numbers are now. They were a much more 'traditional' organisation as to women's roles when I had any contact years ago. I imagine, like scouts, there is a lot of competition for attention, and a shortage of scouters as there always was.

Re: BSA Girls

Dear fellows. You are forgetting one of the current ideals of the neo-marxist, post-modern model...there is no such thing as gender. Get with the program, will ya? I say current, because God only knows what shibboleth of the "patriarchy" they'll glom onto next week! This is merely the grievance de jour.