lordargent:But I do BELIEVE it's possible for god(s) to exist (regardless of how improbable).

That one depends on your definition of "god", I think. The classic omnipotent-omniscient-omnibenevolent leads to internal contradictions. If you change the definition to non-omni, but sufficiently powerful, then you're simply rephrasing your definition of "alien". :)

ReverendJasen: Now, since I think I am a piece of god, and I know I exist, therefore I know god exists, thus obviating the rest. :)

I am part of the universe, and I know the universe is likely to exist given the measurable evidence (there's always the chance that we're all in a matrix like shared simulation, but that's ridiculously improbable).

And for me, the existence of the universe doesn't necessitate the existence of a creator.

With no no evidence of a creator (outside of the existence of the universe, which doesn't need a creator), the evidence for the existence of god(s) is ridiculously improbable to me.

// And even then, I would have to ponder, if god(s) created the universe, then what created god(s). And before you know it, you have 'turtles all the way down'.

The list was of things without evidence. While nothing in science is 100% proven, all of the above (except maybe Elvis) have evidence supporting them.

For some of them, like Evolution and AGW, there is massive amounts of evidence. For gravity there is massive amounts of evidence that the force exists ... the explanations on how it works get a bit thin.

"There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."

"It's a lot more complicated than that-"

"No. It ain't. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they are getting worried that they won't like the truth. People as things, that's where it starts."

"Oh, I'm sure there are worse crimes-"

"But they starts with thinking about people as things . . ."/From Carpe Juglum, by Terry Pratchett.//Let it be noted the old woman talking about sin is *not* a worshiper of any of the Disc's gods. In her own words, "I already have my hot water bottle."

I love the fact that at this point in time, at this day and age, with the scientific knowledge at our fingertips that we can access at any computer connected to the internet, the belief in God is the biggest reason given to deny anything that the apparent word of God says. God said that he created man, so Evolution must be incorrect. The Bible says that God made the universe, sun, moon and Earth in six days, so the hell with science and it's 12 billion year old universe.

Believing anyone about what awaits them in the afterlife makes as much sense as believing a five year old explain about what it was like to live during the age of dinosaurs.

But here's the thing people love to argue and not understand. Yes, we as Christians believe God created the universe and everything in it. The question is not yes He did or no he did not that we argue. It is how He did it. Some argue that He created them all in literal 7 days. Others believe that 7 days was a way we, as humans, can understand His power. There are concepts of how we think God sees our timeline. The one I like to think is that he sees our timeline as if He is viewing it from outside of time and sees it all at once. Every branch and every choice, the past, present and future. This allows Him to see and know everything. Giving that, which can explain His all knowing, all powerful, ever presents, we can also say that if science says evolution is true, why can we not say God himself guided life the way He saw fit.

It actually is more simple seeing that those who believe say for certain but those who don't say other wise. But there is a common ground we both can share and say it is possible that we are both correct then out right say that one is wrong, for lack of "proof" and the other is right cause man says so. To me, both origins have a lack of actual proof and both are taken on faith.

I love the fact that at this point in time, at this day and age, with the scientific knowledge at our fingertips that we can access at any computer connected to the internet, the belief in God is the biggest reason given to deny anything that the apparent word of God says. God said that he created man, so Evolution must be incorrect. The Bible says that God made the universe, sun, moon and Earth in six days, so the hell with science and it's 12 billion year old universe.

Believing anyone about what awaits them in the afterlife makes as much sense as believing a five year old explain about what it was like to live during the age of dinosaurs.

Rev.Veggie.Spam:Karma's really not that hard to prove. If you treat it like some weird metaphysical force like the author seems more than happy to lump it in as, then yeah sure it is because you dragged metaphysics into it.

If you just think of it as being known for what you do or that what you give tends to reflect what you get back, then it isn't. I think of it more like simple economics.

/disclaimer: IANAE//but I do listen to NPR's Planet Money

Well, you could even think of Karma as not a mystical thing, but, well-the simple fact that negative actions tend to multiply. Someone cuts you off in traffic or makes you wreck your car, so you're mean and nasty and grumpy towards people for a while, hurt thousands of other people in tiny little ways because of it, make *their* days worse, and... well, it spreads. Negative actions have a multiplicative effect. By performing negative actions, we simply increase the unhappiness and.. 'negativity' (not in a mystic sense!) in the world, and it will likely swing back around to us at some point.

I think a farker explained it to me that way once.

I kinda like this view, because it gives us, as individuals, an incredible amount of power. When something horrible happens to us, we have the ability to say "No. I will not let this change how I treat others." We can *stop* a tiny part of that negative spreading, bleed a bit of momentum off that wheel, simply by refusing to let something bad happening to us change how we react and treat other people.

I worry, sometimes, that I'm not as different from Young Earth creationists as I'd like to be. Because I admit, on some level, I believe I have some control over my thoughts and actions (whether from a mystical soul, or just some sort of really really weird feedback loop). That I am not just either a puppet dancing on a divine string, or a completely, 100% predictable (with sufficient computation) meat-machine.

To me, free will is a bit of an axiom, that I build off of. That I have *some* control, at the very least, over my own thoughts, and how I think about things. That even if there is no inherent meaning to anything, we can *give* meaning to things by the choices we make, the lives that we lead.

And if there was every scientific evidence that proved free will was a complete myth, that we really just completely and utterly set on the course we are on (whether by fate or pure determinism), I think I'd have to reject it, if only to maintain my semblance of self.

So this makes me wonder if I'm really all that different from young earth creationists, which is a thought I find more than a little distressing.

alwaysjaded:Listverse. Every time I go to that website I spend more time there than I intended. Especially the strange ones.

And I don't know how I feel about intuition. I'm naturally skeptical about most things but I've had far too many, uh, "sudden intense feelings" about something happening for me to just dismiss it.

it's not necessarily mystical. it could be your mind's way of coming to a quick conclusion based on cursory phenomena without going through the trouble of wasting your time processing it in a normal, relaxed fashion. there are probably good reasons why you feel sudden uneasy feelings. though your brain doesn't take the time to explain it to you, there is a reason for the feeling.

Aliens: Some sort of life existing somewhere other than this insignificant rock? Mathematically almost certain. Alien visitors here on Earth? Unlikely at best. (Though who, I ask you, planted all those streetlights?)