It should go without saying (but apparently doesn't) that closing Guantanamo was something that was actually possible and even attempted, but never panned out because the issue of where to move the prisoners turned into a NIMBY problem.

Whereas there never was nor could be a sincere effort to strong-arm Mexico into cutting a check for a border wall.

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: ↑
Does anybody showing a fence or wall around a house know the difference between a house and a country? Because they seem to be a bit confused. Those two are not the same thing.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

All these dumb liberals keep saying "We don't need to build a massive roof over America," but nearly every last one of them sleeps under a roof every night.

Brive1987 wrote: ↑
Was the principle that politicians should be impeached when they break campaign promises? Or, in this case, maintaining the objective but varying the payment plan?

You can deliberately misunderstand Trump's critics if that helps you feel better about dismissing them, but confronting someone with a misconception this big only makes you look like an imbecile. I'll go ahead and explain this to you in case the right wing propaganda really has reduced you to a drooling retard.

If Trump is impeached, the rationale of Congress will hinge on one or several of these reasons:

- he had an illegal relationship with Russia or Russian nationals during the election
- he has an illegal relationship with Russia at present
- he is found to have obstructed justice by interfering with the Mueller probe or by firing Comey
- he violated campaign finance law during the 2016 election
- he has abused the powers of his presidency to enrich himself in violation of the emoluments clause
- he perjured himself to the Mueller probe
- he committed some other act that we aren't presently aware of (or that I mistakenly left off the list) which could be considered "high crimes and misdemeanors"

In order for impeachment to happen congress will need to be convinced, and have evidence, that one or several of those occurred. Even if that happens, impeachment still might not follow, depending on the politics of the situation. This is the only way Trump's campaign promises would have any relevance. If 80% of republicans still approve of Trump, the Senate isn't going to vote to remove him from office, high crimes and misdemeanors be damned. Which means House Democrats probably won't bother with impeachment proceedings. So if Trump pisses enough of his base off, that might make impeachment more likely, but it won't be the reason why he is impeached.

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: ↑
He is, tho. Agrees with the right on most issues, but after endorsing Trump initially, saw Trump for what he really is. Now he sees Trump as dragging down or even the death of the Republican Party.

My dad loved that song back in the 70s.

I think that one (or both) of us is confusing Joe Walsh with Joe Walsh.

It's probably important to remember that they are completely different people...except in the context where they are the same person. (But even then they are not same person as the other person).

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: ↑
He is, tho. Agrees with the right on most issues, but after endorsing Trump initially, saw Trump for what he really is. Now he sees Trump as dragging down or even the death of the Republican Party.

My dad loved that song back in the 70s.

I think that one (or both) of us is confusing Joe Walsh with Joe Walsh.

It's probably important to remember that they are completely different people...except in the context where they are the same person. (But even then they are not same person as the other person).

Brive1987 wrote: ↑
Was the principle that politicians should be impeached when they break campaign promises? Or, in this case, maintaining the objective but varying the payment plan?

You can deliberately misunderstand Trump's critics if that helps you feel better about dismissing them, but confronting someone with a misconception this big only makes you look like an imbecile. I'll go ahead and explain this to you in case the right wing propaganda really has reduced you to a drooling retard.

Thank you for your succinct summary of possible Trumpian sins and crimes. It is actually a useful list. Your flow wasn’t helped by unnecessary invective, but that’s probably just a style thing for you.

Of course the point you were responding to (ie my responses) addressed the current hysteria surrounding the wall and it’s funding model. For a moment it appeared to be the administration’s ‘moral’ crisis, demanding civic minded intervention.

When does Mueller release his report? It would be appropriate to nail this colour and movement down before America gets its very own President Castro.

Somehow Mueller must be just sitting on a gold mine of evidence.... but he needs another year or two to write the summary. Haha. It is very funny to watch how hard the MSM and the Dems hype this shit. It is the only story that gets them any ratings so that is the story they run.

I watch tons of news shows. I used to really enjoy Meet the Press and have watched this show for decades. But, Sleep-eyes Chuck Todd is almost unwatchable. I watched the first part of the show yesterday and they had a few senators who all bitched about the wall. Very appropriate in this case... but... then the entire second half of the show was devoted to pundits squawking about Mueller. WTF! Unwatchable... these fucking MSM clowns just put on the Russian show for the clicks.

Of course, there's many other reasons that Trump could have kept his conversations with Putin private, removed some sanctions and not implemented others and had so much of his election team get convicted of crimes. Firing Comey, hidden deals, no-show tax returns, lying about Trump Tower Moscow...It doesn't necessarily mean collusion. But would you really bet that he didn't collude?

Somehow Mueller must be just sitting on a gold mine of evidence.... but he needs another year or two to write the summary. Haha. It is very funny to watch how hard the MSM and the Dems hype this shit. It is the only story that gets them any ratings so that is the story they run.

I watch tons of news shows. I used to really enjoy Meet the Press and have watched this show for decades. But, Sleep-eyes Chuck Todd is almost unwatchable. I watched the first part of the show yesterday and they had a few senators who all bitched about the wall. Very appropriate in this case... but... then the entire second half of the show was devoted to pundits squawking about Mueller. WTF! Unwatchable... these fucking MSM clowns just put on the Russian show for the clicks.

Two years isn't that long for this sort of investigation. Remind me how many people have already been convicted? And Cohen- two felony convictions with "Individual 1." Whoever might that be? Be patient. There's a reason Trump is getting crazier lately.

Somehow Mueller must be just sitting on a gold mine of evidence.... but he needs another year or two to write the summary. Haha. It is very funny to watch how hard the MSM and the Dems hype this shit. It is the only story that gets them any ratings so that is the story they run.

I watch tons of news shows. I used to really enjoy Meet the Press and have watched this show for decades. But, Sleep-eyes Chuck Todd is almost unwatchable. I watched the first part of the show yesterday and they had a few senators who all bitched about the wall. Very appropriate in this case... but... then the entire second half of the show was devoted to pundits squawking about Mueller. WTF! Unwatchable... these fucking MSM clowns just put on the Russian show for the clicks.

Two years isn't that long for this sort of investigation. Remind me how many people have already been convicted? And Cohen- two felony convictions with "Individual 1." Whoever might that be? Be patient. There's a reason Trump is getting crazier lately.

Haha. This "Trump is crazier than ever" story is also a funny one. I am amazed at how quickly everyone forgets how crazy Trump has been for the last three years. He is the same old Trump. People forget what he does even from the prior week and they get outraged all over again..... week after week after week.

I would not be surprised if they tried to get Trump on campaign funding violations..... hell.... half the politicians in Washington have campaign funding violations. But, even if this is proven no one will care. Hell.... no one even cares that he paid off a porn actress and a Playboy model. Who is gonna care about funding violations except for the people who already hate him?

Trump supporters will also not care if Trump had some kind of chat with Vlad prior to the election. They actually will not even care if they talked about the election. None of this matters except to the people who already hate Trump.... and there are lots of these people, especial in the MSM. None of this will give rise to an impeachment because too many voters will see it as an over-reach by congress.

So.... the Dems have clearly decided to go full anti-Trump. They will do everything they can to keep him from getting a win of any kind. This will help the Dems in Congress so this is a winning strategy for them. They must know they have a very slim chance if winning the presidency, but they don't care that much. The Dems could get lucky if Trump really, really fucks up, but it is far from a sure thing.

Can the FBI prove their (helpfully unredacted) allegations re Manafort.
What was the nature of this apparently critical “polling data”.
Is there evidence anything was received in return.
Is there evidence that Trump was across any of this.

Can the FBI prove their (helpfully unredacted) allegations re Manafort.
What was the nature of this apparently critical “polling data”.
Is there evidence anything was received in return.
Is there evidence that Trump was across any of this.

You're sorta glossing over the Cohen thing there. "Individual 1" a client of Cohen's, running for elected office knowingly committed two felony campaign contributions. That's at least two Donald Trump felonies, and they have the full goods. If not for the opinion (possibly wrong) that sitting presidents can't be indicted, he'd be up with Cohen, looking at time in prison.

And again, these things take time. Many investigations take years, especially in white-collar crimes. The only ones pushing for a quick resolution on either end is brainless, reactive partisans on both sides. There is a process that can't be rushed, not if justice is to be done. Mueller is a professional, despite what some MAGA screeches would retcon. If Trump is innocent of collusion, that's what the Mueller report will say. Place your bets now!

Can the FBI prove their (helpfully unredacted) allegations re Manafort.
What was the nature of this apparently critical “polling data”.
Is there evidence anything was received in return.
Is there evidence that Trump was across any of this.

You're sorta glossing over the Cohen thing there. "Individual 1" a client of Cohen's, running for elected office knowingly committed two felony campaign contributions. That's at least two Donald Trump felonies, and they have the full goods. If not for the opinion (possibly wrong) that sitting presidents can't be indicted, he'd be up with Cohen, looking at time in prison.

And again, these things take time. Many investigations take years, especially in white-collar crimes. The only ones pushing for a quick resolution on either end is brainless, reactive partisans on both sides. There is a process that can't be rushed, not if justice is to be done. Mueller is a professional, despite what some MAGA screeches would retcon. If Trump is innocent of collusion, that's what the Mueller report will say. Place your bets now!

My prediction.... no collusion by Trump with Russia... Mueller will be able to say Trump talked to some Russians a few times... but there will be nothing illegal.

Mueller will claim that Trump broke some campaign finance laws with his payments to Horseface. Trump will fight it with all his energy. The case will go on... and on... and on.... right through to Trump's re-election in 2020.

That's about it. CNN will still have wall-to-wall Trump coverage so they will be perfectly happy. Trump will still have the media to abuse and his fans will love every minute of it.

That's my prediction in writing. Of course, this is a guess.... and we will see who gets this right.

Can the FBI prove their (helpfully unredacted) allegations re Manafort.
What was the nature of this apparently critical “polling data”.
Is there evidence anything was received in return.
Is there evidence that Trump was across any of this.

You're sorta glossing over the Cohen thing there. "Individual 1" a client of Cohen's, running for elected office knowingly committed two felony campaign contributions. That's at least two Donald Trump felonies, and they have the full goods. If not for the opinion (possibly wrong) that sitting presidents can't be indicted, he'd be up with Cohen, looking at time in prison.

And again, these things take time. Many investigations take years, especially in white-collar crimes. The only ones pushing for a quick resolution on either end is brainless, reactive partisans on both sides. There is a process that can't be rushed, not if justice is to be done. Mueller is a professional, despite what some MAGA screeches would retcon. If Trump is innocent of collusion, that's what the Mueller report will say. Place your bets now!

The Stormy thing doesn’t appear to be going anywhere while he is in office. Campaign funding is pretty weak tea for a Nazi-traitor level Presidential quarry.

I’m sure you would agree that if it’s going to take years to get anywhere, then it’s appropriate the media and political pundits STFU when it comes to leaks, hypotheticals and ‘heard it from a friend’ level commentary.

This agenda would appear to be collusion to subvert the result of a democratic process. There probably should be an inquiry.

Much like how even if Trump's retarded tariffs are undone in the future, American farmers are never getting their contracts back because their former buyers have already found new, permanent suppliers, there's going to be lasting damage from this stupid shutdown. TSA workers are about to miss a second pay period and more and more just aren't showing up to work because they have to find a new fucking job to pay the bills. And they're not gonna come back. If air traffic doesn't entirely ground to a halt before it's all over (which will be a national emergency), then we're still going to be dealing with shitty, porous security for months or years because a lot of the people leaving are not coming back. MAGA!

Much like how even if Trump's retarded tariffs are undone in the future, American farmers are never getting their contracts back because their former buyers have already found new, permanent suppliers, there's going to be lasting damage from this stupid shutdown. TSA workers are about to miss a second pay period and more and more just aren't showing up to work because they have to find a new fucking job to pay the bills. And they're not gonna come back. If air traffic doesn't entirely ground to a halt before it's all over (which will be a national emergency), then we're still going to be dealing with shitty, porous security for months or years because a lot of the people leaving are not coming back. MAGA!

Virtually all of the terrorists are getting in through airports, a few have tried to get in through official crossings from Canada, 0 would have been stopped by a border wall with Mexico. 90% of drugs come through ports, most of the rest come through vehicles concealing them through official crossings, much of the lethal fentanyl that is causing all the deaths in Canada and the US is coming through the mail from China. It is unlikely much if any is coming from Mexicans crossing the border through gaps where the future wall would be built.
If they really want to cut down on Mexicans and Central Americans that want to come to the US to work illegally and stay forever then put real penalties on companies and individuals that hire and exploit them, like Trump has done for years and his companies still do. If they have no incentive to come such as work, most won't do it, and the enforcement agencies will have more resources to focus on the criminal and dangerous portion of entrants. This was in the evaluation of the US border security union until 2013 and has been a pretty obvious solution in the illegal immigrant debate for decades that has been ignored because of moneyed interests and because the average American benefits in the way of cheaper food and other products and services.
If some portions of the border needs proper fencing as well as other strategies then go for it, but this crap that Trump is pulling is a disastrous stunt to control the narrative. He is holding his own people hostages and saying give me my way or I'll kill the bunny.
He really is scum.

While I agree that Trump is scum... it is hard for me to believe his "wall" stunt is "disastrous" as you claim. It may well be a bit too much spending on a wall/fence/wence, but it will not really hurt anyone. Just build the metal wall/fence already. Who the fuck cares?

John D wrote: ↑
While I agree that Trump is scum... it is hard for me to believe his "wall" stunt is "disastrous" as you claim. It may well be a bit too much spending on a wall/fence/wence, but it will not really hurt anyone. Just build the metal wall/fence already. Who the fuck cares?

The people that aren't getting paid like federal workers, farmers that voted for this clown and may lose the family farm because they can't get the subsidy that is supposed offset the damages done by the trade wars he started, or plan this springs planting and many others without are getting hurt by what is just a political stunt probably care. Why didn't he get the wall funded when he had both the house and senate? Because as much as the repubs have been servile stooges to this guy, even they can't stomach flushing who knows how many billions of dollars down the toilet for what is just a stupid slogan this conman has used to hypnotize his audience.
Also, give into this malignant narcissist and you think he will be happy and never repeat this sort of bullying tactic to waste more effort and money? It won't happen. Once this sort of petty bully gets your lunch money he will keeping coming back for more. Also, if his erratic and destructive actions start to threaten your livelihood and future you may one of the who the fuck cares.

John D wrote: ↑
While I agree that Trump is scum... it is hard for me to believe his "wall" stunt is "disastrous" as you claim. It may well be a bit too much spending on a wall/fence/wence, but it will not really hurt anyone. Just build the metal wall/fence already. Who the fuck cares?

He was claiming the tariffs were disastrous, not the wall. The wall is stupid, but only disastrous to certain species, not humans. See posts above.

Last year the Democrats offered some 27 billion for his wall in return for DACA. Now he's begging for 5.7 in return for talking DACA...and my guess is that he'd give far more concessions than he would have a year ago. But right now he looks ridiculous, and why interrupt an enemy making a mistake? Most Americans blame him for the shutdown, which isn't surprising considering he claimed it initially.

A master negotiator he is not. It would be sorta funny if innocent people weren't getting fucked over.

John D wrote: ↑
While I agree that Trump is scum... it is hard for me to believe his "wall" stunt is "disastrous" as you claim. It may well be a bit too much spending on a wall/fence/wence, but it will not really hurt anyone. Just build the metal wall/fence already. Who the fuck cares?

The people that aren't getting paid like federal workers, farmers that voted for this clown and may lose the family farm because they can't get the subsidy that is supposed offset the damages done by the trade wars he started, or plan this springs planting and many others without are getting hurt by what is just a political stunt probably care. Why didn't he get the wall funded when he had both the house and senate? Because as much as the repubs have been servile stooges to this guy, even they can't stomach flushing who knows how many billions of dollars down the toilet for what is just a stupid slogan this conman has used to hypnotize his audience.
Also, give into this malignant narcissist and you think he will be happy and never repeat this sort of bullying tactic to waste more effort and money? It won't happen. Once this sort of petty bully gets your lunch money he will keeping coming back for more. Also, if his erratic and destructive actions start to threaten your livelihood and future you may one of the who the fuck cares.

Yes, good point. Everybody that knew the least little thing about Trump before he ran knew he was a bully. Some hated it, others celebrated. Dems have to stand up to him, or he'll play this stupid game again.

Not exactly the level of the Democrat’s Second Gulf of Tonkin incident. You are confident border protection is still an official mnemonic?

:lol:

Jesus fucking Christ on a pogo stick, if you want real border protection, there's better uses for the money than a wall. If you actually read the article above, the Border Patrol Union was against the wall until it was a political hot potato.

Interesting. Do our foreign Trump supporters know just how important America is to your defense? If you're upset about seeing Chinese characters in Sydney, imagine how upset you'll be being forced to learn Mandarin in re-education camps.

Not exactly the level of the Democrat’s Second Gulf of Tonkin incident. You are confident border protection is still an official mnemonic?

https..://twitter.com/realsaavedra/status/1084829641469132801?s=21

:lol:

Jesus fucking Christ on a pogo stick, if you want real border protection, there's better uses for the money than a wall. If you actually read the article above, the Border Patrol Union was against the wall until it was a political hot potato.

Never has so much BS been thrown over $5b of wall repair, extension, road work and surveillance.

The Wall fight is an ideological battle using metaphor for bullets. Is not a zero sum debate on a single preferred practical approach.

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: ↑
Interesting. Do our foreign Trump supporters know just how important America is to your defense? If you're upset about seeing Chinese characters in Sydney, imagine how upset you'll be being forced to learn Mandarin in re-education camps.

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: ↑
.https..://mobile.twitter.com/julianbarnes/status/1085025307810238464
Interesting. Do our foreign Trump supporters know just how important America is to your defense? If you're upset about seeing Chinese characters in Sydney, imagine how upset you'll be being forced to learn Mandarin in re-education camps.

It was a joke . ha ha
I didn't mean to say he was a racist, he really is a malignant narcissist in my opinion. So he basically so he has no regard for any human or animal rather than himself. He is pretty good at manipulating people though.