Birthers, the Few, the Proud, Riling Capitol Hill

Health-care reform may be slow going, but the birthers - the few but furious - are gaining steam.

Sort of.

The so-called birther bill, born out of an unfounded theory that Barack Obama is not a U.S. citizen, now has 11 House co-sponsors. Not quite a baker's dozen, but enough to serve up a fresh batch of ridicule for the Republican Party.

Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas is the latest Republican to sign onto the bill, which would require any future presidential candidate to provide a copy of his or her birth certificate to prove natural born citizenship.

Does Gohmert believe the conspiracy theorists who argue -- despite plenty of evidence to the contrary -- that Obama was really born in Kenya, not in Hawaii?

"I don't know if it's true or not," Gohmert told the Sleuth in a telephone interview Wednesday evening. "But I read that Lou Dobbs said [Obama's] original birth certificate was destroyed." (That would be Lou Dobbs of CNN, who has helped to perpetuate the Internet-fueled rumor that the copy of Obama's birth certificate produced by his campaign last year is fraudulent.)

Gohmert says he's "shocked that people are saying the people who signed onto the bill are conspiracy theorists." The whole point of the bill, he argues, is to "eliminate all this conspiracy talk."

He pointed out that questions were raised last year about the true citizenship of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who was born in the Panama Canal Zone.

When reminded that Hawaii government officials had affirmed and reaffirmed this week that Obama was indeed born in Honolulu on August 4, 1961, Gohmert said, "That's what they say... I don't know if it's true or not."

Gohmert is in the same company as Rep. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), the former No. 2 House Republican who is running for Senate in 2010. Blunt, though not an official co-sponsor of the birther bill, was videotaped this week on Capitol Hill by a reporter for the liberal blog Firedoglake questioning Obama's birth creds.

(Never mind that Obama has produced a copy of his birth certificate, which you can find here.)

For Rep. John Culberson (R-Texas), who signed on in June as a co-sponsor of the birther bill, the issue has nothing to do with President Obama, according to his spokeswoman, Megan Mitchell.

"It's not about Barack Obama," Mitchell told us. "It's about this question that keeps popping up."

She referred to Mitt Romney's father, George Romney, who was born in Mexico and ran for president in 1968; Barry Goldwater, who was born in Arizona before it became a state; Lowell Weicker, the former Connecticut governor, congressman and senator who was born in Paris; and McCain, born in the canal zone.

Mitchell says Culberson "believes Barack Obama is a citizen of the United States." And she says he believes the copy of the Hawaii birth certificate that Obama produced during the campaign is legitimate. But as a "strict constructionist," he wants to devise a way to settle citizenship questions that might arise with future presidential candidates.

The conspiracy theorists, in part, led Rep. Bill Posey (R-Fla.) to introduce his birther bill back in March. As Posey's spokesman, George Cecala, puts it, the congressman's office "got a lot of folks who called in" and Posey "didn't want his constituents being ignored."

Posey said in a statement provided to the Sleuth that "there have been questions raised in the past about candidates meeting the Constitutional requirements for the Office of President. My bill simply requires that future candidates for president file with the Federal Elections Commission the necessary documentation that shows a candidate has met the three requirements for the Office of President. It simply implements the Constitution through legislation where there are no current standards in law."

Some Republicans are blushing with embarrassment over the birther movement, which forced the White House to address the issue anew this week.

The conservative National Review shudders to think that conspiracy theorists may be overshadowing what the party stands for. "Much foolishness has become attached to the question of President Obama's place of birth, and a few misguided souls among the Right have indulged it," the magazine editorialized this week, warning that the birthers are no different than the left-wing fringe 9/11 "truthers."

"There is nothing that President Obama's coterie would enjoy more than to see the responsible Right become a mirror image of the loopy Left circa 2003," the National Review said.

Which may explain why there are so few Republicans willing to put their names to the birther movement.

Asked why he thought more Republicans hadn't signed on to the bill, Congressman Gohmert said, "Maybe it's because the press goes after them and calls them nuts or something."

All Pres Obama has to do to make this controversy go away is produce his original certificate of birth to someone qualified to review it. The hundreds of thousands of dollars Obama is spending in legal fees could be ended simply by handing over the certificate. So, why doesn't he?

I stand by my remark . . produce the original, long form certificate to someone who knows what one would look like from that date. The mystery about why it is being hidden is what fuels this discussion. Transparency, remember that promise?

Pres.Barack Obama was elected last November and will remain in office. However, its important to note that the secretive Democrats brought this brough-ha-ha on themselves. Hawaii entered the union in 1959 and everyone knows that Hawaii issued birth certificates to about anyone who asked in those early years. The islands were places where women from other places came to give birth--at least in the early years. His birth has little to do with it. Its his politics they want to
stop.

Joe you are just as idiotic as the rest of the Birthers....What part did you not understand or read for the millionth time? Obama showed, his Legal birth certificate and even you can view it on line. The state of Hawaii said he was born there and even a news clipping from that time period proves Obama was born in Hawaii! Then let me remind you that you can not get anything in America with out a Birth Certificate, things like license for driving etc...The Republicans are once again spending and wasting, our tax payers monies and their time on this redundant Bill. It is Louie Gohmert, Cecala, Lou Dobbs, Bill Posey whom are fanning the flames of ignorance to the Knuckle draggers like you Joe Collins...Get a life get a brain.

The eligibility question isn't and shouldn't go away. It's not a question of whether he was born in Hawaii or Kenya, it's a question of whether he fits the requirements in the Constitution to be a "natural born citizen" and while the Supreme Court has not ever issued a ruling on this, has not determined just what constitutes a "natural born citizen" the question will not go away, as it should not. His father was not a US citizen. At the time of his birth, his father was a British subject.

Honesty is important in government officials, and should be demonstrated.

The Governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle - a REPUBLICAN - has certified that Obama's original Hawaiian birth certificate exists and is sealed within the state's Health Department. It's Director issued a statement three days ago indicating that he had personnaly observed the original document - as reported on the 27th in the Hawaii Advertiser (state's largest newspaper):
link -http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_n.htm?poe=HFMostPopular

Your comment proves the point exactly. The birth certificate has been on line along with sworn affidavits from the Hawaiian REPUBLICAN governor and the appropriate state official who handles this department that POTUS was born in Hawaii and issued a valid birth certificate. Last week Chris Matthews received copies from the state of Hawaii (one with the actual certificate number redacted and one with the actual certificate number shown). Along with that proof Matthews obtained by request (as any other citizen can do) copies of the local papers with the birth announcements in both in order by date and name - were all those other babies born in another country on different days? All of this has been available (on-line and by request) for 2 years but birthers aren't interested in the real truth only their truth.

Birthers have accepted as gospel an interview with POTUS's step-grandmother. This woman speaks little or no English and the intrepeter made a mis-statement that was corrected almost immediately. Birthers are pinning all their yelling on that one mis-statement that the intrepreter made not his relative.

Here's what birthers will insist on. POTUS must drop health care, the wars, everything and to build a time machine sending a party of hard-core haters (Rush, Sean, Bill-O, Glenn) back to the moment of conception, then forward to the date of birth. Once that has been done the next conspiracy will be that while the time machine was being geared up a baby switch occurred -- so they will want him to prove he is the natural born son of the parents who claimed him -- since they are both dead they will insist he is an imposter, and thus should be removed from office.

Did you know that when anyone runs for higher office or is appointed to the Supreme Court, etc. the FBI runs a detailed check -- oh I forgot they are all in on this, so is Hillary who would have given her left kidney to win the nomination, McCain didn't tell Palin to accuse him of it -- and if this isn't racial -- please name any other president who has been asked to produce his birth certificate and have it examined by anyone?

I can't believe I'm weighing in on this, but here goes: I work for a legal publishing company. We publish the codes of all 50 states, the US Federal code and the codes of the territories and possessions.

There is no such thing as a "long form birth certificate." There is no standardized form of a birth certificate. Vital records (birth certificates, marriage licenses, death certificates, adoption certificates, etc.) are regulated, IF AT ALL, by the individual states or territories. This is not a federal matter and there is no federal law governing it.

Some states have official forms, but many do not and allow the individual hospital, birthing center, midwife, funeral home, or attorneys representing the parties to draft their own certificates, which are then entered into whatever official registry that state has. My birth certificate from 1965 in Virginia looks very different from my mother's in 1940 in the same city in Virginia, and they both look quite different from my husband's 1965 certificate from California and his daughter's 1989 certificate from California. I have official copies of all of these and no two of them look the same.

The state of Hawaii has certified on a number of occasions that what President Obama produced during the election is what qualifies as an official copy of the Hawaiian birth certificate circa 1961. The original is on file at the clerk's office in Honolulu and is available for public inspection by anyone who is interested (and many have already viewed it).

I doubt that President Obama has spent a dime defending this, except for the cost of an official copy of the birth certificate (probably less than $10), much less "hundreds of thousands of dollars." He has fought nothing. He produced the official copy.

For what it's worth, the first 7 presidents weren't born on American soil because there WASN'T AN AMERICA YET!!! Should we retroactively impeach everyone from George Washington to Andrew Jackson?

The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.
The department only issues "certifications" of live births, and that is the "official birth certificate" issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.
And, it's only available in electronic form.
Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.
"At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting," she said.
Information about births is transferred electronically from hospitals to the department.
"The electronic record of the birth is what (the Health Department) now keeps on file in order to provide same-day certified copies at our help window for most requests," Okubo said.
Asked for more information about the short-form versus long-form birth documents, Okubo said the Health Department "does not have a short-form or long-form certificate."
"The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models," she said.
Okubo also emphasized the certification form "contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate."
She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements."

the union in 1959 and everyone knows that Hawaii issued birth certificates to about anyone who asked in those early years. The islands were places where women from other places came to give birth--at least in the early years.

My Comment:
"Everyone" Have any citation in support of this? In 1959 Hawaii was very isolated. The 707 had just entered into Commercial service and to get to Hawaii for many people was a multiday Ocean Voyage. It was truly a "tropical backwater".

But lets look at the next part of the claim, even if true, it is irrelevant. Let's assume that the Islands were places that women came to give birth? Okay. So what. Even if the woman was an illegal alien with no husband or an illegal alien of a husband, if she gave birth in the United States, the Child would be a citizen. And in the case of Obama we know that his Mother was a student at the University of Hawaii. That her parents lived in Hawaii. That one of Pres. Obama's teachers knew both the Doctor and his mother and remembers the birth. So whether or not others came to the Islands to give birth (which is a ridiculous claim) it certainly does not apply in this case. I am really tired of explaining this over and over again to the tin foil hat brigade.

All of you guys who are producing facts to counter the birthers are doing a great and noble service. It's just too bad you are wasting your time and energy though. As proven over and over, including some of the comments today, facts are something to be ignored by these loonies. Better just to laugh at them than to try to convince them of anything. When even Ann Coulter (!!!!!) disses them, what is there left to say?

Can Congressman Gohmert prove that he was born in the U.S. Maybe his birth certificate is fake. Can he prove it isn't? If you start with the assumption that every document is fake and all the officials must be lying than nothing can ever be proven.

"His father was not a US citizen. At the time of his birth, his father was a British subject."

Nowhere in the laws regarding citizenship is it required that both parents be citizens in order for the child to be a citizen. Obama's mother was unquestionably a citizen, and he was born on American soil.

All Pres Obama has to do to make this controversy go away is produce his original certificate of birth to someone qualified to review it. The hundreds of thousands of dollars Obama is spending in legal fees could be ended simply by handing over the certificate. So, why doesn't he?
Posted by: JoeCollins1 | July 30, 2009 12:26 PM
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So you are saying that the State of Hawaii is not qualified to examine it's records, issue a Certificate of Live Birth, and state that a person was born in their State? Then who is qualified? (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hmY0QbztBYUfvaCiGkFPJ-enKz_wD99N95AO0)

So how about another website that has done investigation on this than any other?

Isn't this whole "natural born citizen" requirement kind of outdated, anyway? Why should someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger or John McCain (or Barack Obama, for you tinfoil-hat nutcases) be ineligible for the presidency despite the clear fact that they are American citizens in good standing?

Judging someone by where they were born, rather than by how they have lived their adult life, seems so ... un-American.

It is wrong of people to ridicule those who expect Pres Obama to provide evidence that he was born at a hospital (which hospital?) on American soil, that he never applied to college as a foreign student, that he never received scholarships designated for foreign students, that he never used a foreign passport to travel to Pakistan at a time when American citizens were not allowed to travel there. These questions will continue to escalate until the President proves this speculation incorrect. Refusing to show the documentation that would stop this speculation suggests a cover-up.

It is sad that in this day and age citizens respecting constitutional requirements are ridiculed by the Obama administration and the media.

The constitution requires a presidential candidate to be a natural born citizen. For citizens respecting the constitution, they require proof that a candidate is a natural born citizen to begin with so as to make an educated vote.

No proof has been offered to an impartial judicial body to verify Obama's legibility. All that has been offered is a COLB which doesn't mean he was born in Hawaii. Yet it is the citizens right to have verification to do his duty and cast an educated vote.

Instead of supporting the citizen, the Obama administration and the media prefer to mock those respecting the constitution. They prefer to believe it is more logical to support Obama who spends over 600,000 dollars on legal fees to hide his birth certificate whee most would be proud to do so. Even Robert Gibbs gave the middle finger of ridicule to 400,000 concerned people who signed a petition demanding proof of eligibility.

Now if everything remains the same, wouldn't it be great to see 500,000 concerned citizens in support of constitutional requirements march on Washington returning Gibbs' middle finger by demanding proof in numbers hard to ridicule.

What have we come to for so many to ridicule those who support the constitution and its requirements to be president?

It is wrong of people to ridicule those who expect Pres Obama to provide evidence that he was born at a hospital (which hospital?) on American soil,

My Comment:
Kapiolani Women's Hospital on Punahou Street. That's been reported over and over again. As for evidence, what kind of evidence do you expect to be retained nearly 50 years after the date? The Doctor's long dead. But people that knew both the Mother and the Doctor are still alive and recall the birth.

mkr2 wrote:

that he never applied to college as a foreign student, that he never received scholarships designated for foreign students, that he never used a foreign passport to travel to Pakistan at a time when American citizens were not allowed to travel there.

My Comment: These have all been debunked as well. Care to cite the law that banned travel by American Citizens to Pakistan? You can't because Pakistan hasn't been subject to such a travel ban. Facts always seem to get in the way.

mkr2 wrote:
These questions will continue to escalate until the President proves this speculation incorrect. Refusing to show the documentation that would stop this speculation suggests a cover-up.

My Comment: No, it would suggest that the rest of us have gotten tired of pandering to these right wing paranoid fantasies and realized that a small sub-group of Americans (sub-americans?) just can't deal with a person of color as President and will keep telling themselves "tales" and "myths" to help them from facing up to the truth. My comment to Birthers, man up. Find a high bridge or building and test you faith in God by jumping off.....

I don't even understand the "Birthers" argument. They keep asking for a "Long Form Birth Certificate". I'm an American Citizen, born in Delaware and I have my ORIGINAL notarized birth certificate. It includes the same information on the birth certificate President Obama released. I don't have a "Long Form" birth certificate. Does that mean I'm not actually a citizen???????

No proof has been offered to an impartial judicial body to verify Obama's legibility.

My Comment: The Government authority that issued the certificate has authenticated the certificate. Twice. The impartial judicial body's function is to confirm that it was authenticated by the relevant authority and not to "re-examine" this on its own. Its the concept of deference. In other words, what you want isn't provided for in the law.

jusme33 wrote:
All that has been offered is a COLB which doesn't mean he was born in Hawaii.

My Comment: Do you have any statutory support for this claim? The answer is no. This is the document issued by the State of Hawaii which provides proof of birth. In Hawaii. This is what the Sovereign State of Hawaii has decided is sufficient. The Courts will give the State deference. The question is simply "is this the document issued by the State" not whether a "better document" could be issued by the State.

jusme33 wrote:
Yet it is the citizens right to have verification to do his duty and cast an educated vote.

My Comment: Got any support for this claim? Its been verified by the issuing authority. Its legally sufficient. Next case.

jusme33 wrote:
Instead of supporting the citizen, the Obama administration and the media prefer to mock those respecting the constitution. They prefer to believe it is more logical to support Obama who spends over 600,000 dollars on legal fees to hide his birth certificate whee most would be proud to do so. Even Robert Gibbs gave the middle finger of ridicule to 400,000 concerned people who signed a petition demanding proof of eligibility.

My Comment: Once you give in to the tin foil hat crowd on this issue, they will just continue to make demand after demand in an attempt to prevent the administration from taking any action. Satisfy this, and next they will move on to who knows what else. And that's why lots of us have started replying to the Tin Foil Hatters.

I stand by my remark . . produce the original, long form certificate to someone who knows what one would look like from that date. The mystery about why it is being hidden is what fuels this discussion. Transparency, remember that promise?

Posted by: JoeCollins1 | July 30, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

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Idiots.

I was born in Hawaii. And *I* don't have a "long form" birth certificate. None of my siblings do either. The original - I was born in 1958 - about the same time as Obama - was lost over the years in home moves or whatever. My two brothers and sisters too. In fact, I'm not sure what a Hawaii "long form" looks like.

I have the exact certificate of live birth that the Obama team has produced. It's what you get when you ask for a birth certificate from the State (of Hawaii). I've used it to get a passport, etc.

You notice how the REPUBLICAN Governor, REPUBLICAN Lt. Governor (who've I've met and worked with on a project last year), the State Republican Party Chair, and all of the Hawaii local Republican politicians are all NOT all over TV endorsing the birthers? None of them are on Fox "News" waving their "long form" birth certificates all over TV. Why?

Because only stupid haoles who have never been to Hawaii and think that "long form" certificates grow on pineapple plants are clamoring for said "long form". Folks who actually KNOW Hawaii - including all of the REPUBLICANS there - know better. As I do, having been born and raised in Hawaii.

LASTLY - my credentials in this, usually anonymous cyberspace.

I was born in Wahiawa General Hospital. Their main switchboard number is (808) 621-8411. Try and get them to connect you with an old-timer, someone who grew up in Wahiawa in the 60s. And confirm this stuff that's not google-able:

1. The old Coronet store on California Avenue. Two floors, street level and basement. Parking lot on the other side of the store (away from California Ave), across a small street, next to Marion's Catering.

2. If they lived down toward Homelani (at the end of California Avenue) - toward Kaala Elementary School....Next to Olive Methodist Church, adjacent to Kaala School, was a small cemetery. IN the corner, along Calif. Ave, next to Church, was a small stone building with some sort of shrine there. Used to spook my brothers and I.

3. If they lived "up the heights", the little kid playground at Iliahi School was up at the heights end of the school.

4. I went to elementary and middle school at King's Bible School on Wilikina Drive, outside of Wahiawa on the way to schofield barracks. The school was small, as you arrived, there was a pink 2-story apt bldg just before the entrance (which doubled as the basketball courts - 8' baskets).

Virginia Harlow: The US Supreme Court has ruled on the issue of natural born citizenship for those born in the US of foreign parents in US vs Wong Kim Ark in 1898. They ruled 6-2 that the 14th Amendment was applicable here (a hell of a lot more so than it applied in Bush v Gore).
Note that many other states only issue certificates of birth rather than the full document. North Carolina is one of them. By law Hawaii does not issue the full document. But the state has certified the document. And I suppose the birth announcement in the Honolulu newspaper was "planted" there in the expectation that Barack Obama would one day run for president.

In the world of reason, your comment would finally put an end to the insanity. I thank you for it, but as we've seen time after time, the loonies are not convinced by reason, logic, or facts. Luckily, they are just the fringe of the fringe of the far-right, even disowned by some of their own heroes, so they can just continue to be laughingstocks for the rest of us.

The birthers are "nuts" and very biggoted as well. They cannot stand it that the country has moved beyond them and that many white people are no longer biggoted. They will not believe whatever you put before them....they would not even believe it if they were there for the birth of Obama. Ignore them....if we are lucky, they will move to another country or even better, to another planet.

Gee, I thought that all U.S. Senators were vetted for a security clearance by USSS and FBI to handle classified papers that they may be brief on? The last time I had a clearance, I got my clock cleaned. The security folks vetted everyone on my block and my wife plus ran 3 credit checks on me. You would think with the fingerprints and the old long security form someone would have seen this Birth certificate. Is a Birther another name for Bigot(s). Don't know?

"Mitt Romney's father, George Romney, who was born in Mexico and ran for president in 1968; Barry Goldwater, who was born in Arizona before it became a state; Lowell Weicker, the former Connecticut governor, congressman and senator who was born in Paris; and McCain, born in the canal zone."

You don't think that the fact that Obama is a multi-racial President has anything to do with the sudden intense and obsessive interest in finding fault with his Hawaii certified birth certificate? That sounds the the "real" conspiracy to me!

Could the president really be this squeeky-clean??? If the most incriminating piece of dirt that a motivated movement can dig up is that he must've broke the law when he was a newborn baby, he must have led a pretty dull life. Instead of looking for a witness to his birth, I'd like to find the talented individual(s) who created these phony birth certificates and legal records. He/she shouldn't be too hard to locate.

1. The old Coronet store on California Avenue. Two floors, street level and basement. Parking lot on the other side of the store (away from California Ave), across a small street, next to Marion's Catering.

My comment:
I can confirm this. I used to live near the Coronet Store in Aina Hina, which became a Garden Store and then Chucky Cheese.

Most of us understand that explaining these issues to birthers is like talking to a rock, but that's not hte point of debunking their ridiculous claims. The point is that there is some 16 year old out there reading all this who might believe the birthers' nonsense if it is left unchallenged.

We don't take the time to post links to the law and official statements for the birthers' sake, we do it for the 3rd party who would otherwise be mislead by these bigoted lunatics.

To all regarding "loonies" - who would have thought that the intelligence collected under Clinton's adminstration, vetted by by the intelligence committee members of both parties, corroborated by British, German, and Russian intelligence, and presented by Clinton's CIA director as a "slam dunk" would be characterized as Bush lies? The question of Obamas' BC as well as John Kerry's military record could easily be dispelled by either man releaseing their documents. This is normal practice for those preaching transparency. To date John Kerry never released his records. To date Obama has not released his BC or college records. In both cases, I believe there are good reasons neither man wants them released. It is clear both are hiding something, the question is merely what are they hiding. I personnally believe Kerry was dishonorably discharged from the Navy in early 1970s, and was granted amnesty by Jimmy Carter with an honorable discharge reinstated in the late 70's. With regards to Obama, I personnally believe it is his mediocre grades at Occidental, Columbia, and finally Harvard that he is hiding not his birth records (red herring). Kerry ran on his record as a war hero - release of his military records would crush that bit of hubris. Obama ran on his innate intelligence and smarts (Bush was dumb remember) - releasing the college records would crush that bit of fantansy, leaving Obama in a position to have to run on his record (not a good choice - he had none - Hillary tried to point that out). So, yes he is probably native born, although in his first book he identifies himself a British citizen, but he is hopelessly over his head and out of his element - he is a agitator, not an executive nor a legislator. He is a guy who thinks there is an Austrian language. How many of the ivied pedigree think that?? He can't even spell "advise." The truth is he is not so smart. He cannot do ad lib interviews, but needs a teleprompter at all times. If one is not present it is a guarenteed disaster. His handlers have created the BC issue to distract from the real truth, he ain't so smart. My guess, but fits the template pretty well. Your thoughts?

This is what racism is about questioning why a black person has something. It's implied that they didn't get it like everyone else - in this case white males. I know these people are fringe and crazy but they're also can vote on our national laws - frightening.

Simple. Every repubican vomiting their demands to see Obama's birth certificate should pay $1,000,000 for the privilege. Then they can shut up and go back to pulling little girls' hair in their 5th grade playground.

My thoughts? You are able to write grammatical and well-spelled sentences, therefore you think that proves that you are not a loony. However, your diatribe contains so much garbage masquerading as facts (your opinion is that John Kerry got a dishonorable discharge, for example), that I am sorry to have to tell you that, yes, you too are a loony. If the shoe fits, wear it.

Once again, I will repeat, has either Kerry or Obama released their military or educational records, respectively? Until either does so they knowingly invite questions. To defend the unknowable is usually the provence of believers. I wish to remain rational since we are talking of secular leadership not devine. As such I look for reasonable answers to why neither man is forthcoming. So far I have learned here that truthers are hideous beings that live under bridges (sub-human) and questioners of Obama are simply racists. Neither answer squares with reality.

Once again, I will repeat, has either Kerry or Obama released their military or educational records, respectively?

My comment: This is exactly why the line needs to be drawn for the birthers here and now. All they will do is simply move on to another irrelvant and nebulous issue. Are Obama's academic records relevant? Not really. Harvard doesn't just put any Tom, Dick or Harriet on the Law Review, and not every member of the law review is Editor in Chief. That speaks volumes. As for the records, explain how that impacts on the Constitutional Qualifications for the job.

What's the next demand? that he release his Bar Application? At some point, and I think it is well past, you need to tell the paranoids that they are paranoid and stop feeding their paranoia by dealing with them as if they were sane.

What really drives rightwing fear is Obama's political and personal success. They know that when the economy turns for the better (as it has slowly started to), that all chances of beating him or the Dems in the near future is over.

Since Obama has produced his birth certificate AND the State of Hawaii has certified it AND there are newspaper announcements of his birth in 1961, it can be only a form of insanity that keeps this idiocy going.

Would any sane person believe that 48 years ago someone planted false birth announcements in a Hawaii newspaper, knowing that someday a young Kenyan baby might grow up to run for president? Not even Nostradamus could have come up with that one. And we're also to believe that the hundreds of people who would have had to be involved in this "conspiracy" have somehow kept it a secret for almost fifty years? Give me a break - you can't count on 10 people to keep a surprise party a secret.

And while we're on the subject: There is one big difference between these nutjobs and the ones on the left who claim that Bush bombed the World Trade Center: This particular group of fools has intimidated certain weak-willed politicians into agreeing with them. That didn't happen with the Trade Center nonsense, as far as I know (set me right if someone knows otherwise). You can call the left 'looney' if you like, but they're rank amateurs compared to this crowd.

TO: dcraven925 Re: "Are Obama's academic records relevant? Not really. Harvard doesn't just put any Tom, Dick or Harriet on the Law Review, and not every member of the law review is Editor in Chief."

Normally I would agree with you. However, in this case Harvard elevated Obama to the Law Review and made him editor but he never published anything. This is is odd. Normally, to achieve editor status one is expected to write and publish quality first. This is the way it works on law reviews and in the publishing business. Really quite queer wouldn't you say? The man has no writen legacy as Editor-in-chief of the Harvard Law Reviw. Further, he graduates from Harvard Law but never practices law. Wierd.

The man has no writen legacy as Editor-in-chief of the Harvard Law Reviw. Further, he graduates from Harvard Law but never practices law. Wierd.
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Not wierd (sic) at all - what he wrote at Harvard is not his to publish. However, anything he has written in connection with the law would be available from Westlaw and LexisNexis and any law library. But you don't really care about that, do you? It's much easier to question whether something exists than it is to do the research. The point is to sow doubt, of course, not contribute anything of substance to the discussion.

As to whether it's 'wierd' that Obama didn't practice law, there are many, many law school graduates who move on in academia rather than practice law. Obama went on to teach at the University of Chicago. Ooooo spooky, isn't it? I'll bet he's sending information on us to the Mother Ship right now.

I was born in Hilo, TH (Territory of Hawaii) on xx-June-1943, at Hilo Memorial Hospital.

I have about the worst-looking birth certificate imaginable - it's a sepia-toned photostat of "Standard Certificate of Live Birth, Territory of Hawaii, Board of Health."
File No. ***, Registrar's No ***. It was stamped and certified on August **, 1944.

I might have had to show it to get my Social Security Card, but I can't remember. I did have to show it to get a US Passport. Nobody complained about it.

More to the point, it even got me a NY State Enhanced Driver's License, which requires proof of birth. When the examining clerk saw it, she laughed. She handed it to another clerk, who laughed. They looked at it a couple of times, and took it as evidence of US citizenship.

It's possible that this is what the silly birthers are looking for -- I suppose it could be called "long form," because it even declares how long my mother stayed in the hospital before delivery (13 hours), and how long she had been resident in the Territory (6 years).

I think I'll get a new Hawai'i one like the President's. I still can't believe that the NY clerks accepted mine. I really don't think I would have.

Other posters have pointed out that birth certificates vary tremendously from place to place and time to time.

My jaw drops at comments like harbinf's,especially the most recent one about the Law Review. Guy, I went to Harvard myself, though not to the law school. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. None. How is it that you know what the qualifications for Law Review editor are? You don't . . . but those are handy little assertions you're making, aren't they?

Normally I would agree with you. However, in this case Harvard elevated Obama to the Law Review and made him editor but he never published anything. This is is odd.

My Comment:
This is "odd"? No, not really. Law Review is selected after the first year based on one's performance in Law School the first year and on participation in a submission competition. This is how law review members are selected. And its normally blind. The second year is spent working on articles, preparing your article and learning about editing. For various reasons (for example the article is pre-empted by a change in the law) not all articles are published. At the end of the second year, the Editors are selected.
(And by the way, he graduated from Harvard Magna Cum Laude.... an academic distinction based on Grades....)

Harbin wrote:
Normally, to achieve editor status one is expected to write and publish quality first. This is the way it works on law reviews and in the publishing business.

My Comment:
Not on the Law School Publication I was on.... I suspect that you are blowing smoke.

Harbin wrote:
Really quite queer wouldn't you say? The man has no writen legacy as Editor-in-chief of the Harvard Law Reviw.

My Comment:
Sure he does. All of the Journals that came out under his supervision as Editor-in-Chief. Once you are Editor in Chief you are really too busy to write an article (and study for your classes and get ready for the Bar Exam).

Harbin wrote:
Further, he graduates from Harvard Law but never practices law. Wierd.

My Comment:
Huh. I seem to recall one of the earlier charges against Obama was that, as an associate, he worked for Resko, the Chicago property developer. The Birthers can't have it both ways. Tarring Obama for working as a Lawyer for someone that turned out to be sleazy AND arguing that he hadn't worked as a Lawyer.
In fact, he worked for Four years at Judson Minor's firm... Judson Miner who was a law school classmate of that Radical John Ashcroft.....

As for graduating from Law School and never practicing Law.... that's again not that unusual.

Hey, harbinf, you're getting a little off-message, aren't you? You're supposed to be harping on how Obama is not legit because he is actually a citizen of Kenya, or Pakistan, or Mars maybe. His academic record, even if it is as mediocre as you claim, has nothing to do with being qualified for the presidency. Of course you know that- you're just tryng to throw up a smokescreen.

There are three contentions in the Obama natural born citizen issue, any one could be a problem to his status as a “natural born citizen”:

1. He may have become an Indonesian citizen if adopted by Lolo Soetero in Indonesia. Were he born in Hawaii, he may have been natural born citizen at birth, but would have lost it upon changing citizenships.
2. He was born a dual citizen of the UK (Kenya was part of UK). Obama himself has verified this. It is contended by most of the cases that dual citizens cannot be considered natural born.
3. The least likely, and the one the media focuses on (because of it’s unlikelihood), is that he was born in Kenya. Purportedly there is testimony to this occurence.

This should have beeen reviewed before Obama was certified, or at least some congressman should have raised the question during the certification. The issue is becoming a political hot potato for Obama (not coincidentally restarting in earnest as he attempts to nationalize health care).

What needs to be remembered here, is that the "birthers" and other wingnuts, both here and on other venues, are not presenting anything that they themselves have researched. They are simply parroting information (lies) they've been fed by their favorite radio, TV, and internet "personalities". As these "personalities" spout tripe that feed into their already existant biases, fears and delusions, they are treated as fact, with no substantiation required. Anyway, as they so very badly want to believe this crap, they would never look into it themselves, as they might just find out their heroes are full of it, and that would destroy all their illusions.

No, I said in my original post that the BC issue is a red herring to distract from the true object of defletion his academic record. As I pointed out if your main claimed qualification for the job is your smarter then everyone else, then the only objective way to determine the truth of your statement is look at your academic record. To have a politician claim an attribute qualifies him for an office while preventing any objective observer the ability to verify the claim is dishonest. So have your way, he is real smart, and that qualifies a person to be President. Just ignore his Austrian language studies.

1. He may have become an Indonesian citizen if adopted by Lolo Soetero in Indonesia.

My comment: Any legal support for the claim that this is sufficient to eliminate his citizenship? The answer is no, because Citizenship requires an act of renunciation. Your parents can't renounce your citizenship and you can't cite an precedent in support of this because there isn't any.

sivere wwrote

2. He was born a dual citizen of the UK (Kenya was part of UK). Obama himself has verified this. It is contended by most of the cases that dual citizens cannot be considered natural born.

My comment: Got any citations for that? Didn't think so. And that would make no sense. All a country would have to do to "take out" a candidate that they did not like is declare him a citizen of that country. Obama's a citizen. He was born in the US and he didn't take any actions to renounce his citizenship. Game, Set, Match.

sivere wrote:

3. The least likely, and the one the media focuses on (because of it’s unlikelihood), is that he was born in Kenya. Purportedly there is testimony to this occurence.

My comment: No credible evidence on one side and a pile of evidence on the other. Let's add in, Obama's not a Citizen because Hawaii was not properly a State, Obama's not a citizen because the hospital is adjacent to a large Church (Central Union) and thus might be "Holy Ground" and under the separation of Church and State he was born in a Church, not a State, and Obama's not a citizen because his mother had her fingers crossed when he was born. Those all are just about as credible.
Go play in traffic.

This should have beeen reviewed before Obama was certified, or at least some congressman should have raised the question during the certification. The issue is becoming a political hot potato for Obama (not coincidentally restarting in earnest as he attempts to nationalize health care).

My comment:
Sigh. Austrian is a sub-language of German with a high degree of commonality. Someone who speaks High German and someone who speaks Austrian can certainly communicate, but it is also not unreasonable that one could take Austrian instead of German. And this is not uncommon. Spanish, for example, is often offered in both Latin American and Spain versions because of the differences. And English (as spoken in England and as spoken in America and as spoken in India) also has a lot of differences. But hey, you knew that didn't you......

to: dcraven925 re: Come on - Next time I'm in Vienna, I will ask the locals whether they speak German or Austrian. Would you like me to ask the British whether they speak english or british? How about the Mexicans?

Barack Obama has not released transcripts for his grades from Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law. He has also not released his SAT and LSAT scores. No explanation has been offered for not releasing them.
Per the Wall Street Journal September 11, 2008, "Obama's Lost Years," Obama graduated from Columbia University (to which he transferred after his first two years at Occidental College in California), with a degree in Political Science without honors, so had a GPA less than a 3.3. His roomate Sohale Siddiqi indicated Obama itially felt alienated, felt "very lost," and used drugs to get high, which could have led to low grades initially. The roomate indicates that he then turned serious and "stopped getting high." Obama transferred to Columbia because he was concerned with urban issues. Based on his overall undergraduate GPA of less than a 3.3, Mr. Obama's admission to Harvard Law School may reflect affirmative action statutes, low grades early, then higher grades later (purely speculation) and/or other factors.

At Harvard Law School, Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude, which, according to the Havard Law School website, is awarded to the top 10% of Harvard Law School students.

Also at Harvard Law School, Obama was accepted as one of 85-90 Editors of the Harvard Law Review, out of an estimated 1,000 students from the 2L and 3L classes that might have sought this honor. Obama was also elected President of the Law Review, which according to a Harvard Law spokesperson is not based at all on academics, but on other measures as would occure in any club.

Come on - Next time I'm in Vienna, I will ask the locals whether they speak German or Austrian.

My comment: Please do. If you ask them in English, they might give you the shorthand answer German, but they would also tell you that "Austrian" is a recognized dialect with a very different pronunciation structure and a lot of different words. And the Austrian Government publishes Österreichisches Wörterbuch, (Austrian Wordbook) which is the Dictionary of the language used in Austria. Its similar to the fact that the Oxford English Dictionary reflects the state of the language in England, while the Random House Unabridged Dictionary of the American Language reprsented the state of the language in America.

harbinf wrote:
Would you like me to ask the British whether they speak english or british?

My comment: Ask them whether WE speak English. Many of them will tell you we don't speak English, at least not the Queen's English.

Obama's comment has, as most attacks against Obama by the Tin Foil Hat Brigade, been taken out of context. His comment about the word used in Austrian makes perfect sense as word choice is important and proper words in Vienna are not proper in Frankfurt just as the word "fag", for example, has a very different meaning in British English and American English.

If this were John McCain, of course, there would be no "birther" movement. And if some misguided, malevolent left-wingers attempted the same thing, they would be laughed out of the country -- as they should be.
But someone, I don't think this really has any thing to to do with the "birth certificate," but instead with this salient little fact: Obama doesn't exactly look like past presidents.
Most of these birthers, sadly, represent those "who claim to love America, but clearly can't stand Americans" -- the paraniod, conspiracy-filled and (yes) racist minority in this country.
And shame, shame, shame on the incredibly stupid, worthless P.O.S. "Congressional representatives" (they don't even deserve that title) for fueling the fire.
They are a disgrace to Cogress, to the GOP and to Americans in general.

The issue is that the COLB produced by Obama does not prove or disprove where he was born. It is incomplete and requires further evidence to complete the vetting process.

Here is why. In the 1960's Hawaii had lax immigration laws. Anyone could walk in off the street and claim to have had a child at home and get a birth certificate. Those laws were changed in the 1970's, but birth certificates issued before the change are suspect for the massive immigration fraud that occurred.

Obama has publicly and in writing claimed he was born in a hospital in Hawaii. That evidence is only shown in three places:

1. The original birth certificate issued in 1961 that Obama claims is lost.

2. The vault birth records that the State of Hawaii has announced they are holding and can be produced if Obama signs a release.

3. From the records of the hospital Obama claims he was born in, which to date Obama has refused to do.

So if the vault records confirm the birth in the hospital where Obama has claimed he was born fine. But if these records state that Obama was born in the backyard, or somewhere than the hospital it raises the need for further vetting or proof.

It is that simple. No conspiracy, no race issue, just the simple fact that the document by Obama for the reasons stated above does not answer the question was he born in Hawaii. That information is only found in the three areas listed above which Obama has refused to allow access to.

Actually there was the same question asked of John McCain and it was answered. But in McCain's case you have his father, an Admiral in the Navy serving our Country overseas who has a child. For Obama you have parents who may have committed fraud to register a child born overseas. Apples and road apples.

If Obama is ineligible he is not the President. Ineligibility never goes away. If evidence comes out that he is not eligible just like the President in Honduras he will be escorted out of the office. Hmmm, maybe that is why Obama is siding with the exiled Honduran President and Chavez.

My Commnet: Yes, no question. Obama was born in Hawaii and the evidence all supports this and is more than legally sufficient.

steveb777 wrote
Obama is hiding almost everything. This wouldn't fly in court. It doesn't fly with me.

My comment:
No, the Tin Foil Hat paranoia wouldn't fly in Court. In fact, at some point soon the Courts are going to start imposing Rule 11 sanctions for bringing these kind of actions. It is unlawful to file totally baseless law suits.

steveb777 wrote:
Please everybody keep pressing this. Don't give up!

Obama, show your long-form birth certificate!!!

My Comment:
He has shown what is the legal document issued by the State of Hawaii which provides prima facie evidence of his Birth In Hawaii. And that's what any court would consider not the paranoid ravings of a lunatic.

(me)1. He may have become an Indonesian citizen if adopted by Lolo Soetero in Indonesia.

My comment: Any legal support for the claim that this is sufficient to eliminate his citizenship? The answer is no, because Citizenship requires an act of renunciation. Your parents can't renounce your citizenship and you can't cite an precedent in support of this because there isn't any.

My reply to Dcraven: I agree, I have not seen any direct evidence.

sivere wrote

2. He was born a dual citizen of the UK (Kenya was part of UK). Obama himself has verified this. It is contended by most of the cases that dual citizens cannot be considered natural born.

My comment: Got any citations for that? Didn't think so. And that would make no sense. All a country would have to do to "take out" a candidate that they did not like is declare him a citizen of that country. Obama's a citizen. He was born in the US and he didn't take any actions to renounce his citizenship. Game, Set, Match.

My reply: Wrong, as I asid Obama himself admitted it on his campaign website.

sivere wrote:
Wrong, as I asid Obama himself admitted it on his campaign website.

Game still in motion.

My comment:
Not at all. Game, Set Match, Trophy Awarded and Club closed for the night. I wanted you to cite any support at all for the proposition that dual citizenship thrust on you by birth and never accepted and thus lost destroys the U.S. citizenship. In fact, the case which established the precedent that the 14th Amendment makes it clear that birth conveys Citizenship (even if the parents are not only citizens, but are not allowed to be citizens) also essentially destroys your argument as well.

And that's all right and good. Otherwise a hostile nation could "defeat" a candidate that they did not want by simply declaring them a Citizen.

The idea that Obama ever took any act in support of British or Kenyan Citizenship is laughable.

(And by the way, as a resident of the State of Hawaii, Obama would have received some "preference" at most Schools during this time to promote diversity. I know that I did even though my only "distinguishing characteristic" was my Hawaii High School degree.)

All Pres Obama has to do to make this controversy go away is produce his original certificate of birth to someone qualified to review it. The hundreds of thousands of dollars Obama is spending in legal fees could be ended simply by handing over the certificate. So, why doesn't he?

Posted by: JoeCollins1"

He did, stupid! Now if you would just learn to read under that tinfoil hat....

All of you guys who are producing facts to counter the birthers are doing a great and noble service. It's just too bad you are wasting your time and energy though. As proven over and over, including some of the comments today, facts are something to be ignored by these loonies. Better just to laugh at them than to try to convince them of anything. When even Ann Coulter (!!!!!) disses them, what is there left to say?

Posted by: justmike"

Nobody's trying to argue with them, justmike: that would be pointless. We're just ridiculing them, which is more than they deserve.

There is substantial evidence that he is Art. II. constitutionally unqualified and
not Natural Born, is more than likely concealing his truthful birthplace:
1. His own admission in factcheck.org "Dual Citizen at birth"- British/Kenyan
(Note-does assert Natural Born Citizen of the US at birth this was the perfect opportunity to do so)
2. The misrepresentation to the public the online Birth Certificate
Clearly it says "Certification" - a "Certification" and "Certificate" of live Birth" are 2 different forms
The People want to see the "Certificate" of Live Birth".
3. His own failure to provide the microfiche copy of the Certificate of
Live Birth (On line is a "certification of live birth- which meansthere is
attestation that a birth took place and it happened, in themanner described see Hawaii revised Statutes)

4.Grandmother in Kenya witnessed his birth in Kenya,Birth was then “registered” in Hawaii upon parents return to the US.
(A common occurrence to children born over seas in ships, planes trains ect.)

5. A House resolution HR 111-593 resolving that Obam was born in Hawaii,rather than presenting his own positive proof.
6. Kenya recognizes him as son of the soil
7. The dismissal of the Cooks Military suit challenging Obam to prove
his 'Constitutional' qualifications to serve,Dismissal of Cooks deployment orders rather than proving that He is a Natural Born.
8. The numerous lawsuits,many more are on the way. None of the lawsuits have been ‘heard on the merits so far
9. House passing a “resolution” that he was born In Hawaii , protecting themselves against legal charges.
10. The outright refusal to address the issue with the public andAllowing the Media to defend for him.
11. Citizens serving Grand Jury Presentments of Indictment .http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?p=2725

Wont this ever end? The BC or the COLB doesn't matter. It's whether or not Senator Obama is or is not a Natural Born American Citizen. I did not type "citizen", he would have to be a Natural Born Citizen. Born of Blood and Soil. That is the Blood of two (2) patents that were both American Citizens at the time of his birth and that birth on American Soil. Everybody knows his father was not an American Citizen. In fact his father was a British Citizen. Being a Brit and being under the British Nationality Act of 1948,Obama's father's British Citizenship caused baby Obama to be born a British Citizen at his birth. Anyone born a British Citizen or born to one or more non American parents can never be a Natural Born American Citizen. Thus it is just impossible for Senator Obama to ever really hold the office of POTUS. So long as we still have Article 2. Section 1. paragraph 5. in our great Constitution, we will have to elect Americans to the office of President of the United States of America. Even our founding fathers who themselves were not Natural Born being born to British Parents or born British Citizens themselves had to add "unless you are an American Citizen at the time of the adoption of this Constitution" to their new Constitution to allow them to hold the office of President until such time as there were true Natural Born Americans Citizens born to take their place. Well today we have plenty of honest Natural Born American Citizens to be elected. We have no need for a British usurper.

American Citizen. I did not type "citizen", he would have to be a Natural Born Citizen. Born of Blood and Soil. That is the Blood of two (2) patents that were both American Citizens at the time of his birth and that birth on American Soil.

My Comment:
Other than the whisperings of the voices in your head, do you have ANY support for this construction of the phrase "Natual Born Citizen"? I didn't think so. This matter was resolved a long long time ago by the 14th Amendment and the Supreme Court when they ruled that a person of Chinese descent was a full citizen of the US even though neither of his parents was eligible to be a Citizen.

Old1 wrote:
Everybody knows his father was not an American Citizen. In fact his father was a British Citizen. Being a Brit and being under the British Nationality Act of 1948,Obama's father's British Citizenship caused baby Obama to be born a British Citizen at his birth. Anyone born a British Citizen or born to one or more non American parents can never be a Natural Born American Citizen.

My Comment:
Any Support for this absurd proposition?
I thought not.

Old1 wrote:

Even our founding fathers who themselves were not Natural Born being born to British Parents or born British Citizens themselves had to add "unless you are an American Citizen at the time of the adoption of this Constitution" to their new Constitution to allow them to hold the office of President until such time as there were true Natural Born Americans Citizens born to take their place.

My Comment:
That has to do with the fact that anyone born before the founding of the country was not a Natural Born American Citizen since, well, America, didn't exist. Once enough time had passed, we would have people born in America.

My suggestion. Pull the tin foil hat down over your ears, find a tall building and see if you can fly.

What's interesting is the number of persons endowed with enough sense to get elected or be allowed on the public airwaves (admittedly a fairly low bar, but one most of these "birthers" can't scale) continue to lend credence to this foolishness.

The reason seems to be that any effort to distract people's attention or (however wackily) malign Pres. Obama is considered time well spent.

The GOP would be wise to take a stand against these hardcore nut balls. The handful of intelligent persons remaining in the Republican Party must realize that time and demographics are against them unless they can find a way to appeal to a wider base than the angry old southern white men whose political philosophy starts and ends with cutting taxes and ranting about "Socialism".

thrh wrote:
Nobody's trying to argue with them, justmike: that would be pointless. We're just ridiculing them, which is more than they deserve.

My Comment:
That and making sure that the gullible few that may read these don't start to think that this has any degree of credibility. Recall the inane claim that Obama was a Muslim that was accepted by a not insignificant portion of the population. In fact, Obama went to a Main Line Protestant School with religious instruction (Punahou).

But remember, the real reason for these attacks are to get him to "release" these records so they can move on to more and more fanciful claims that are harder and harder to rebut (Pres. Obama is it true that you actually come from Regulus V? I want you to release your ______ records to prove this. You don't have ______ records? Ah-ha.) The line needs to be drawn here and now and the tin foil brigade needs to be told to shut up.

First of all, don't get me wrong. I love the birther movement. It is pure genius by the democrat that came up with it. It has divided the republican party like no other issue could and has help distract the real republicans from the issues they will face at election time. All the better for the liberal.

So if Obama was born in Kenya, where's his Kenyan birth certificate...Oh, I know, they just pop babies out left and right over there so none of them have birth certificates. So going with that, What is it in Hawaii that they're keeping under lock and key? His real State of Hawaii birth certificate? No, because that would prove he's a US citizen. His Kenyan Birth certificate? What would it be doing under lock and key in Hawaii? Why would there be a birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper if he was born anywhere other than Hawaii? If he wasn't born in Hawaii or Kenya, where was he born? I love the birther movement!

Damn, these upstart colonials have discovered our devious plot to re-instate British rule over the 13 colonies - all the other so-called "States" being illegally added at a later date.
By the way, I think Mary Ann's hair is pretty.
Keep sleuthing!

Damn! Those clever Kenyan bastards! First, they sneaked this half-white baby into Hawaii in '61. Probably bribed their way into state offices and, you know, dummied up a "birth certificate." And then--Bam!--forty-seven years later, that very child, who's now become a "black man" living in "Illinois" is elected president of the US. Talk about your stealth candidate! The pay-off? A President who both writes and speaks in entire, fairly correct English sentences. Makes Alger Hiss look like a piker.

"So if Obama was born in Kenya, where's his Kenyan birth certificate...Oh, I know, they just pop babies out left and right over there so none of them have birth certificates. So going with that, What is it in Hawaii that they're keeping under lock and key? His real State of Hawaii birth certificate? No, because that would prove he's a US citizen. His Kenyan Birth certificate? What would it be doing under lock and key in Hawaii? Why would there be a birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper if he was born anywhere other than Hawaii? If he wasn't born in Hawaii or Kenya, where was he born? I love the birther movement!"

There are answers to all these questions but it requires you to bend your head around the vast and insidious nature of the conspiracy. Obama you see was not really "born" in Kenya but was transported to that part of Africa by a race of beings from beyond our solar system. These beings aim to destroy life on earth as we know it through the use of taxes and devices like "Universal Health Care" (which of course is simply the mechanism by which the remote control chips will be implanted in the brains of the innocent but gulllible US Citizens).

These beings, as the birthers have discovered, also were responsible for creating the fake "certificate of live birth" and placing the bogus "birth announcement" in the Honolulu papers back in 1961.
The diabolical designs of these extra terrestrial beings are vast and terrible. As anyone equipped with a truth detector knows, the aliens also are responsible for (and in control of) Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Denis Kucinich and the Berkeley City Council.

This is just another type of "leftwing extremists" under-handed, cheating, immoral way of furthering the socialist agenda. Those are the people who call the conservative side "right-wing extremists". Oh come on! This type of trick is what I'd expect from Chavez or his ilk. Some sort of illegal cover-up. Well, Obama is showing his true colors everyday! He's undermining the whole U.S. and doesn't care if you voted for him or not. We are ALL getting screwed!

Rumor on the internet is that Obama's collegiate entrance was based on his application as a "foreign" student. This is a rumor!
Can this be ascertained? IF that is true, that would be fraud. This may possibly be the source of all this commotion!

The issue is "transparency". Americans spend hours watching mysteries on TV. If we aren't given every 'clue' then we all become 'creative script writers.' We are still trying to figure out who was standing on the grassy knoll in Dallas in 1963. The bigger issue is: how carefully are local and state election boards in checking citizenship when someone files to be a candidate for any office? All I know is that I was told by family that the birth record was amended and sealed because mother's maiden name was changed. Someone else is told something else and all these 'clues' have created a 'mystery.' Hasn't any news media talked to his family's neighbors when he was born? Did they not report because it would end the 'mystery?'Linda Joy Adams

Rumor on the internet is that Obama's collegiate entrance was based on his application as a "foreign" student. This is a rumor!
Can this be ascertained? IF that is true, that would be fraud. This may possibly be the source of all this commotion!

My Comment:
He's from Hawaii. That gave him a preference as Schools like geographic diversity. When I showed up at College I was invited to join the "foreign students association" since I was from Hawaii.

I only had time to read about half of these comments, but the discussion is hilarious as usual. It seems to be about 50-50 between Birthers and normal people. The single most common exchange, repeated over and over and over on this and other Birther threads:

Birther: Why doesn't he just show us his birth certificate?
Normal Person: He already has!

But much more interesting to me is this weird idea that Obama has spent a ton of money hiding information about his past. The amount varies wildly depending on who made it up; in just these comments I saw the following figures:

$400K
$600K
"over 600 thousand"
"hundreds of thousands"

Elswhere, I have seen it as "a million dollars", $1.5 million, and "millions of dollars". Not one single person making this claim ever gives any specifics (Who is the money being paid to? What are they doing to hide the information?), nor any link or reference to any news story describing these (non-existent) payments.

Do the Birthers simply not care that (a) they have no evidence for their case; (b) the obvious lies about the "legal fees" suggest that the rest of their crap is all lies also?

Republicans are sounding so much like out and out racists with there birther fear mongering. They are desperate to do anything to besmirch the president's integrity. Afraid of change because it'll cost insurance companies money, these lacky surrogates are trying hard to make progress a dirty word. I keep waiting for one of them to come out and say that President Obama is really nothing more than a hologram because they've actually never seen him in person.

Guys, the question is not if your a citizen. The Consitution requires you to be a "natural born citizen". The following case law from the Supreme Court would seem to indicate that it is an open question: Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162; United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649; and Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325. It could go Obama's way, but then again it may not. At any rate until the Court calls it, it will remain an open question. If I were already sworn into office and sitting at the desk in the Oval Office, there is no way I'm going to roll the dice and take my chances with nine men and women on the Supreme Court. I just crush it suit for lack of standing and move on into history.

A certified copy of Obama's birth certificate has been produced for months now, it has been fact checked by independent organizations and the state of Hawaii. A republican investigator trying to dig up dirt on Obama found his TWO birth announcements in newspapers from Hawaii on the date that matches his birth certificate.

Stop posting this drivel over and over again, if you haven't seen it, then you are not looking.

John McCain really was not born in the United States. The Panama Canal territory is only 10 miles wide and 50 miles long and its owned by the Republic of Panama. The Democrats met in 2008 as they realized McCain would be the Republican (Patriotic) Party candidate and voted that he was in fact qualified as he was born on a US Base to a Military Officer and his wife. Of Course the Republicans (Patriotic whenever it suits them) did not do that for Obama because Obama was born in Hawaii, a state of the union and had a birth certificate and birth announcement in the local newspaper. Now they do not want him to be President. He was voted in by a large majority of electoral votes, so they decided to do this Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh exercise and hope the Palin 3rd graders would jump on the bandwagon. This whole episode is so totally what is incompetent and wrong with the Republican Party of 2009. Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt would be Democrats if they came back to life. One party tries to stop potential problems (Dems) and one party led by Roy Blunt (Missouri Congressman who will be running for the Senate in 2010) says Obama cannot produce a real birth certificate implying he is a fraud. Perhaps Roy would like the Supreme Court to OK Obama as they put Bush into office 8 years ago--not the majority of voters. Roy Blunt is the Republican Party. Look at him. See him. He is what it has become.

I personally believe Obama was born where he said he was and is a natural born citizen. But...I still want to see what else is on his birth certificate. NO not the one already published but the one in the "Vault". You know, like who delivered him, what his father's name was.

Stuff like that.

It was asked on another thread:

"How can there not be some reporter out there that won't run with this? This is a potential prize for the person that can tie all of the facts together into a neat package that the stupid masses can comprehend!! I hope that this question becomes the hand of providence that saves us."

Well...That was a birther asking that question. Looking for salvation.

Perhaps sometime in the next couple of years (or ten) an editor or a reporter will decide that the truth is more important than their job. But even then, without the courts making the authorities disclose the documents in question, they will not be able to do much of anything other than get themselves thrown out of their jobs and professions and never get another major media job. But hey, they might get lucky and find a thread and keep pulling on it until something unravels.

You never know.

But I wouldn't count on it. Because you see when you are the most powerful man on the earth and your backers have their fingers in every aspect of life and politics and don't forget money, he (they) can do just about anything he/they wants because power/access and money control our representatives...our Congress and all politics in this Republic. I don't see a majority of Congress doing anything about this except denouncing those that demand answers.

But we (us peons) can keep asking the questions and keep track of all of Obama's lies and deceptions. It will give us something to do until we can go vote. I suggest that everyone find themselves a liberal and keep working on him until you can turn him where he will not vote for Obama or another democrat for anything not even mayor. If only one out of a hundred of us is successful that is just that many votes that Obama won't get.

The only thing weirder than the Birthers are the anti-Birthers, who blame the Birthers for being conspiracy theorists yet actively feed the conspiracy by refusing to call for President Obama to release his birth certificate.

The state official in Hawaii who manages such things has reiterated that there is indeed an original birth certificate on file which would confirm President Obama’s having been born in Hawaii and that she has seen it, but state law won’t allow her to release it unless the president authorizes it.

So what’s the problem here? Release the original and let’s be done with this madness

If you think releasing the vault copy would satisfy them and make this go away then you haven't been paying attention. These people wouldn't believe it if we invented a time machine and shipped them all back so they could personally witness his birth with their own eyes. And catering to their lunacy is a bad idea. He shouldn't be giving in to this kind of 'terrorism by tantrum.' Not only would it not work, but it would legitimize their complaints such that the next complaint, ("Now we want to see your kindergarten records!") would be more difficult to deny.

But having said that I can see an eventuality... the birther thing dies down for a while, but doesn't really go away. Round about 2011 it flares back up full force, and round about Oct. of that year... well, you get the idea. ;) If he's going to capitulate to their insane demands, why not wait till it'll do him the most good?

FIRST OF ALL..........
Read a history book for crying out loud! Better yet, read the United States Constitution, specifically Article 2, section 1-there is NOTHING in the US CONSTITUTION that refers to the citizenship status of a Presidents parents-it states very clearly that one must be a natural born citizen, or a citizen as of the date of the signing of this document..-no mention of parents status AT ALL-and rightly so being that the country was so young at the time that probably MOST PEOPLE would have been excluded HAD they made that a condition of the presidency. Never mind all that-The Presidents citizenship status has been proven, so all I have to say is HEALTHCARE, TWO WARS, THE ECONOMY AND NORTH KOREA IS PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH NUCLEAR MISSILES, CAN WE FOCUS NOW????!!!!!!!!!

I realized earlier earlier this week, watching the video of Rush bouncing up and down in his chair, waving his arms, and hysterically calling the President of the United States Barack Obama an "angry black man," that the problem with the "birthers" is that they are angry that slavery was abolished. The tin hats are to fool normals into thinking that "birthers" are just crazy, rather than rage-filled bigots.

When Obama refused to show his Birth Certificate and other documents I got suspicious and I did my own investigation on his BC:

Obama’s Birth Certificate presents the following anomalies:

a.- It has no State Of Hawaii Seal.
b.- It has no signature
c.- It has no crease. All Hawaiian BC’s are mailed and are hence creased.
d.- Obama’s BC doesn’t tells us who filed it.
e.-Obama's BC was filed the same day Barack was born. By whom? Mother in the Hospital, Obama Sr an immigrant for sure wouldn't know where to go file it.
f.-Obama’s BC doesn’t tell us what Hospital was he born in. Most Hawaiian BC’s say so clearly.
g.-Obama’s BC doesn’t mention the Name of the doctor who delivered baby Barack. 99% of Hawaii BC’s clearly say so.

Conclusion: OBAMA’S BC IS 100% FAKE AND THIS MAN MUST SHOW not only his Birth Certificate but all his personal ID documents for public inspection OR STEP DOWN IMMEDIATELY .
In My Humble opinion Obama is an Usurper, a fraud and must be expelled now.

I am so sick of the ridiculous claims the right wing is making on a daily basis. The Republican Intellectuals ARE gone.

If Obama were white it would be just as bad, but wouldn't have as many of my fellow Georgians chiming in. This is what they did to Clinton too. Constant, non-stop accusations mostly based on lies, distortion and insanity. I now realize we elected Bush because of what happened with Clinton, and I now realize he's a male Palin. So it is possible she may be elected by the time the Republicans state their foolish, harmful, hateful stories on Fox and all the radio stations 24-7 for the next 3 and one-half years. This country really is getting dumber. People can't think for themselves anymore, can't make good judgements and enjoy bringing down the intelligent people, regardless of the state of the economy, wars, health-care!!! No amount of evidence can make them see the truth! A President at the level of Bush or Palin will harm the country, dummies!!

You are republican wackos who say President Obama is not a U.S. citizen and did not produce his birth certificate. You are the idiots that believe any lie that comes your way from liars in the republican base. It is unforunate that what you people are has become so obvious. You are imbeciles who cling to lies told to you by republican liars. So go hear more lies and believe all the liars. You belong to the republican base. Really stupid people.

Obama was not the editor of the Harvard Law Review he was the President of the Harvard Law Review. He was elected president by his fellows. He did not have to write anything, but he wrote plenty of while there. He just did not have anything of his own published. You republican morons are so lame.

harbinf That is a lie that John Kerry did not prove he was honest about everything he said about his Vietnam service. He did continue to get every bit of proof that put the liars to shame after the election. Republican operatives were able to turn the country against a truly honorable veteran who joined up and served our country with distinction. It has too often worked for republicans to smear a truly virtuous man because they know it helps them win the gullible idiots who fall for the lies time and again. But who wants liars getting their way and winning elections. I sure don't. Republicans are not a party that can be trusted. They are mean, hateful, spiteful and wound anyone in their way with their backstabbing lies. Swiftboating someone is now a term used to identify this heinous republican act.

WASHINGTON – California attorney Orly Taitz, who has filed a number of lawsuits demanding proof of Barack Obama's eligibility to serve as president, has released a copy of what purports to be a Kenyan certification of birth and has filed a new motion in U.S. District Court for its authentication.

The document lists Obama's parents as Barack Obama II and Stanley Ann Obama, formerly Stanley Ann Dunham, the birth date as Aug. 4, 1961, and the hospital of birth as Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya.

No doctor is listed. But the alleged certificate bears the signature of the deputy registrar of Coast Province, Joshua Simon Couya. It was allegedly issued as a certified copy of the original in February 1964.

I love the new Kenyan "CERTIFIED COPY OF REGISTRATION OF BIRTH" that somehow just appeared. I wonder if the birthers will object to it because it is not a true "Certificate of Live Birth" that they have been demanding for weeks/months.

You are all on-track birthers. Please keep focusing all of your attention, energy and especially your contributions on the birther movement. Remember, in todays America no real truth can come out without your generous contribution to the proponents of this TRUTH. So send money to the leaders of this effort. Don't forget to harrass and yell at the Republican Members of Congress who have not signed onto the legislation to investigate this vital issue.

Nothing could be more important than proving that Stanley Ann Dunham secretly traveled to Kenya in August 1961, gave birth to Barack Obama, then secretly flew back to Hawaii where in a highly secretive conspiracy to cover up this deception she named her child Barack, a very common American childs name.
Yeah that makes sense...

IF the Kenyan BC is true, it states that he was born in the Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya as has long been suspected by some. That would entirely rule out BO being born in Hawaii. It is far more likely that Hawaii with its very loose procedures on registering a child and getting a birth certificate would allow the statement that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii without verification other than a statement from a single family member (such as his mother or grandmother). While there would be advantages (such as becoming POTUS and being eligible for welfare and food stamps) in being an American citizen, I can't see any corresponding advantages in registering as a Kenyan (British at the time) subject.

On an original 1961 State of Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth (the long form) there are 26 additional fields of information that are not on a computer-generated Certification of Live Birth. These were also subject to amendment such as in the case of adoption, which would have been applicable to BHO II since he was adopted (not much dispute about that) by Lolo Soetoro who subsequently married Stanley Ann Dunham, BHO II's mother.

The key is that this entire issue does go to the CHARACTER AND CREDIBILITY OF BHO II and the reason that it a flaming issue growing into a bonfire is that he REFUSES TO MAKE ANY STATEMENT WHATSOEVER ABOUT THE ISSUE AND IS USING THE MSM AND PEOPLE AROUND HIM IN A DESPERATE AND DOOOMED ATTEMPT TO COVER IT UP.

If this Kenyan BC turns out to be authentic, it is the END OF THE ROAD FOR BHO II.

seems each time some one calls for the facts regarding the ligitamacy of obama to hold ofice of us presidency - they are called names by the people that are hell bent on hiding the truth, the obamanites. you can call me a birther, call me a republican, call me a conservative, just be sure to call me when you queer, inbred, socialist, bed wetting zombies can provide the facts. facts are the enemy of truth, and your truth is not fact until you show the facts of proof. Prove obama is legal with facts, until then he is suspect and as Americans, we must ask; where is the proof,where are the facts, where is the birth certificate?

I really think the WHOLE STORY, THE HONEST-TO-GOD TRUTH is that Obama's mother crawled into an oven just before his birth, so HE'S ACTUALLY A COOKIE!

Why don't all you birthers go to Kenya? Perhaps we can arrange that while you are gone, the normal, thinking, mature, adult people in this country will certify that you were all born there and we won't let you back into the country that you hate so much and wish to destroy.

JoeCollins1, comments and asks: "All Pres Obama has to do to make this controversy go away is produce his original certificate of birth to someone qualified to review it. The hundreds of thousands of dollars Obama is spending in legal fees could be ended simply by handing over the certificate. So, why doesn't he?"

Joe apparently didn't actually READ the article. He DID provide the required documentation, Joe; it was checked and certified by competent state authorities, and validated by federal election officials.

The "birther" argument has been soundly refuted by better evidence than most of us have ever seen about the circumstances of our OWN births. Those who persist in clinging to the refuted argument, in spite of such evidence, sound more pathetic and desperate, and less rational, with every passing day.

The Republicans sound like whining little old ladies.
There's so much work to do, that worrying about something as trivial as Mr Obama's birth cirtificate, which he appears to have produced, makes these men on the right side of the aisle all the more pettty in appearance.
They should try and figure out how to win 39 Governorships and 36 Senate seats in 2010. Maybe we can invest in civil discourse for a while.
That's right civil discourse.
Check it out. Maybe it will fit the public.

"I really think the WHOLE STORY, THE HONEST-TO-GOD TRUTH is that Obama's mother crawled into an oven just before his birth, so HE'S ACTUALLY A COOKIE!"

You go, Grannie-Annie! But I hope the people who are advancing the Kenya birth story don't interpret your jest as absolute documentary evidence that our President is actually a confection, and try to bite him. Alert the Secret Service to beware anyone approaching the White House carrying a glass of milk!

There ia a "PROOF" article by POLARIK in RIGHT SOUP.....I dare you to read it !
you probably won't because it's easier for everyone to express their own "opinion" than to spend 3o min. reading and get the truth....too bad!

Obama has publicly and in writing claimed he was born in a hospital in Hawaii. That evidence is only shown in three places:

1. The original birth certificate issued in 1961 that Obama claims is lost.

2. The vault birth records that the State of Hawaii has announced they are holding and can be produced if Obama signs a release.

3. From the records of the hospital Obama claims he was born in, which to date Obama has refused to do.
===

1. No, there is no claim from Obama that it is lost. On Page 26 of “Dreams of My Father”, Obama writes:

“I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school,”

2. No, the State of Hawaii have not said that.

Yes the State of Hawaii have announced they have Obama's vault birth records. Google it. Anyone can order a Certified Copy of a birth certificate in Hawaii that would include that information, but we do not have to do that as Hawaii can release the vault records as long as Obama signs a release. The only reason they have not been produced to date is due to privacy laws in Hawaii and the fact that Obama refuses to release them.

3. Obama has produced his birth certificate.

Not the one that would confirm the statement of Obama that he was born in a hospital in Hawaii. That information is left off the COLB. So what Obama produced is secondary evidence, the primary evidence is in the vault records.

0 for 3. You are a certified racist and a xenophobe. And now, also a liar

Wow, have you taken all of your medication today. Xenonphobe, was that the Reader's Digest word of the month?

RE: Berserk Birthers: Robinson hit the nail on its head. These "birthers" are trying to escape reality--a black man was elected to be the 44th president of the U.S. President Obama provided sufficient proof that he was born in Hawaii. For those who are still calling for him to "produce the document to those QUALIFIED to examine it," I say, like Robinson, GET HELP. And, then, help President Obama lead this nation from three decades of allowing greed to bring it to its feet. That would be an attitude worthy of our forefathers; not this constant destructive quibling over nothing.

The so-called birther bill, born out of an unfounded theory that Barack Obama is not a U.S. citizen, now has 11 House co-sponsors. Not quite a baker's dozen, but enough to serve up a fresh batch of ridicule for the Republican Party.

-------------------------------------------
A fresh batch of ridicule for the Republican party ?

I thought that they outdid themselves with claiming that Bush was equipped for the presidency and then, 8 years later, Sarah Palin comes slithering out of Alaska.

After those two major victories, I can see where the birther movement looks intelligent compared to those two feats.

Isn't it amazing the "problems" Republicans come up with (in lieu of actual good ideas)? All these folks ranting about the birth certificate ARE adults, aren't they? (Just a little mentally challenged I guess.)

You are deluded (purposefully) by a piece of paper DIGITALLY reproduced --- ahhh the same as a counterfeiter would do...

Only one simple question needs to be answered... Why would one (Barry Sotoreo aka Barack Obama) want to put himself though such turmoil when it would be SO EASY to dispell all of the CONSPIRACY simply by presenting some evidence (not spending $800K plus to block his entire resume) in the, alleged, most transparent administration ever?

Local Imam in Mombassa, Kenya named Barack as Hussein after he was born at the COAST PROVINCIAL GENERAL HOSPITAL on August 4, 1961. His mother flew 4 days later to Honolulu and on August 12 completed the Certificate of Live Birth Obama displays. The Honolulu registrar of births released the certificate if birth information to local newspapers who published information on August 13. Do not forget Obama's mom was an atheist so lying meant nothing to her. If Obama was born in Honolulu a hospital would have reported his birth and not his mother. Wake up dumb Americans! Ask anyone in Kenya where Obama was born. They know he was born in Kenya. Check youtube.com
Attorney files motion for authentication of alleged 1960s certificate from Africa.

WASHINGTON – California attorney Orly Taitz, who has filed a number of lawsuits demanding proof of Barack Obama's eligibility to serve as president, has released a copy of what purports to be a Kenyan certification of birth and has filed a new motion in U.S. District Court for its authentication.

The document lists Obama's parents as Barack Obama II and Stanley Ann Obama, formerly Stanley Ann Dunham, the birth date as Aug. 4, 1961, and the hospital of birth as Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya.

No doctor is listed. But the alleged certificate bears the signature of the deputy registrar of Coast Province, Joshua Simon Couya. It was allegedly issued as a certified copy of the original in February 1964.

If the Ku Klux Klan actually had "the genuine" Obama birth certificate, don't you imagine all the Klansmen would reference the same one, instead of the now more than a dozen different "documents" now circulating.

Besides, Obama's mother never visited Africa, so you have to draw the US State Department as well as Hillary Clinton and John McCain into a conspiracy that started in 1961. In 1961, The John Birch Society was "discovering" new government conspiracies with some frequency, and they never offered the "Obama was born in Kenya" conspiracy.

THAT LADY WHO IS SO OUTSPOKEN DOES NOT SPEAK GOOD ENGLISH, SHOULD WE CALL HER A SUBVERSIVE? WE USED TO CALL SUBVERSIVES PEOPLE WHO TRIED TO OVERTHROUGH OUR GOVERNMENT BY REVOLTS AND DISRUPTION.
WE KILLED AT LEAST 4 AT KENT STATE AND BEAT A WHOLE BUNCH AT THE 1968 DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION AND GOD FORBID WE REMEMBER THE ADM. PEDIS BRIDGE.
IF BARAK OBAMA'S MOTHER WAS FROM KENYA AND HIS FATHER FROM THE UNITED STATES YOU MIGHT HAVE AN ARGUMENT.
THE RACE OF THE CHILD BY NORMAL INCEPTION AND BIRTH IS DETERMINED BY THE MOTHER BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE FATHER IS. SOMETIMES NOT EVEN THE MOTHER. DNA MAY ONLY PROVE THE FATHERS BLOOD LINE SO DADDY MAY BE THE TWIN BROTHER.
MANY WOMEN HAVE CLAIMED PATERNITY BY REASONS OTHER THAN WHO PLANTED THE SEED. MANY FAMILY COURT JUDGES SIDED WITH THE WOMAN WHEN MEN DISPUTED THEIR PATERNITY TO AVOID CHILD SUPPORT. JUDGES SAID IF YOU FEED THEM AND TAKE CARE OF THEM, THEY WILL LOOK LIKE YOU.
POOR FOLKS OFTEN TAKE CARE OF NEIGHBORHOOD CHILDREN BECAUSE SOME MAY BELONG TO THEIR HUSBAND.
ONE OF THE STUDIES DONE BY PROFESSOR GATES WAS DNA TESTING TO DETERMINE THE ANCESTRY OF CELEBRITIES. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME OF THE RESULTS FROM THE OBAMANUTS. I BET THEY HAVE GENES FROM THE WEST COST OF AFRICA. THAT IS WHERE THEIR FOREFATHERS PURCHASED THEIR WORKFORCE. CAN YOU IMAGINE YOUR GREAT GRANDDADDY OWNING HALLEY BERRY AND NOT RECOGNIZING HER AS A SEXY WOMAN. HE COULD TAKE HER AT HIS WILL WITH NO PUNISMENT OR LOSS OF PRESTEGE.
THOMAS JEFFERSON HAD SEX WITH HIS SLAVE FROM THE AGE OF ALMOST 14 BUT WAS NEVER CALLED A PEDIPHILE. HE HAD NO LOSS OF STATUS. NEITHER DID OUR CONGRESSMAN THAT FATHERED A BLACK CHILD AND CARRIED THE SECRET TO HIS DEATH. HE SUPPORTED THE CHILD BUT DENIED HER IS NAME AND HIS FATHERLY LOVE AND PROTECTION.
I THINK THOSE CONGRESSMAN WHO ARE SUPPORTING THIS MESS ARE VERY CAREFUL. THEY MAY HAVE THEIR ANCESTRY CALLED OUT.
OBAMA HAS AN AMERICAN BORN MOTHER. LIKE JOHN MC CAIN, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE HE WAS BORN. IT MATTERS WHERE HIS MOTHER WAS BORN.
CHILDREN BORN TO AMERICAN SERVICE MEN AND WOMEN, WHO ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS, THEIR CHILDREN ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS.
WE MUST PROTECT RIGHTS NOT EXPLOIT THEM.