Zombra wrote:Who would have thought that a lawless, devil-may-care drunk would wear a patchwork of mismatched armor and not even shave every day?

Add incompetent to the list and I think you have it just about right. Though a leather pauldron with a besagew does not quality as mismatched or patchwork. It's just laughable. And he sure is clean for a lawless, devil-may-care drunk. That white stuff around his neck has never met up with an ale fueled accident.

And I suppose you're arguing that the facial hair in both images is just a coincidence. That had we seen him on another day he'd be shaven. And it's totally not that way overused cliché of tough guys with permanent stubble that's especially egregious when applied to the medieval period.

But have him in my party? How about beat the ever living crap out of him and steal his boots? They're the only good thing about the guy. Then hire a real bard with a real lute and some smidgen of brains. Drunk is OK, suicidally stupid not so much.

I have to admit, the pauldron/besagew is pretty bad. The stubble I don't care about; I don't necessarily want every party member looking like Grizzly Adams. I'm also not going to complain if the females have shaved armpits, historical accuracy be damned.

Don't much care about the boots. Don't know enough about old instruments to complain about the stringing on his lute, but accuracy there certainly matters. And, yeah, his sword looks weird. If he's using a short sword, fine, but the handle's too long for the blade. Maybe he has LionO's sword and he's about one-and-a-half "thunders" in.

The only thing wrong with the pauldron is that he's wearing it on the right shoulder instead of the left. The besagew isn't there as armor; it's there to look cool (which it does). He's a Bard. He's a showman. It's a shiny thing. That's it. Piece of crap, ill-designed sword? That's why he's a Bard and not a Warrior ... he grabbed one, it didn't feel too heavy, so he called it good.

As for the lute, not every musician plays on a museum-quality Stradivarius, especially on the road. I'm telling you this from direct personal experience.

I'm reminded of films set in the past - say a movie is set in 1930, and the producers want the street scenes to look accurate, so they have dozens of shiny 1930 Bentleys, Cadillacs, and Benzes built - completely ignoring the fact that almost no one drove 1930 models in 1930 ... some people bought new cars that year, but most people drove older ones. The expectation that this guy will be wearing the best possible representation of historically accurate* top-of-the-line armor and equipment available is foolish, and far more "unrealistic" than the things you're complaining about.

*Accurate to what, by the way? Earth history? Bard's Tale doesn't take place on Earth. If it does, we've got uhhhh some much bigger anachronisms to worry about.

Zombra wrote:The only thing wrong with the pauldron is that he's wearing it on the right shoulder instead of the left. The besagew isn't there as armor; it's there to look cool (which it does). He's a Bard. He's a showman. It's a shiny thing.

Perhaps, but I lived through the grimdark 90s, and whenever I see single shoulder pads, I still see red. Screw you, Liefeld!

Piece of crap, ill-designed sword? That's why he's a Bard and not a Warrior ... he grabbed one, it didn't feel too heavy, so he called it good.

Sure, but the sword looks weird. The dings and scrapes on it are nice, I like those. It's just that the sword's proportions are all off. Regardless of who or what was holding it (or if it was sitting on a shelf), it would look weird. This is the uncanny valley of weaponry.

Accurate to what, by the way? Earth history? Bard's Tale doesn't take place on Earth. If it does, we've got uhhhh some much bigger anachronisms to worry about.

They've kind of blurred the line, sadly. Before, it had some real world place names, but was clearly in another reality. BT04 was much more grounded in the real world (it had to be to use Skara Brae) and it seems they're doing that with this one. Instead of a fantasy world, this seems to be more "fantasy version of 3000BC Scotland". Hell, just look at the inclusion of the Trow.

Drool wrote:Perhaps, but I lived through the grimdark 90s, and whenever I see single shoulder pads, I still see red. Screw you, Liefeld!

Haha. Fair enough. Lately, playing Witcher 2, I've come to appreciate asymmetrical armor designs. First time I saw this, I wondered, what the hell is up with that half a neck guard? Then I thought about it and it all made sense.

The sword looks weird. The dings and scrapes on it are nice, I like those. It's just that the sword's proportions are all off. Regardless of who or what was holding it (or if it was sitting on a shelf), it would look weird. This is the uncanny valley of weaponry.

I agree, but to me this is not a mark against the game or the artist. It just reminds me of the silly-looking weapons we've been seeing in game art since the first days of D&D.

Zombra wrote:
As for the lute, not every musician plays on a museum-quality Stradivarius, especially on the road. I'm telling you this from direct personal experience.

It took me a moment to figure out why you'd even be talking about museum quality. The real problem with the lute is that it's blatantly a modern 6 string guitar with some tweaks to make it look old timey. A quick check will tell you that lute were double strung on most courses. Usually all but the highest. So while a 6 course guitar might have 6 strings, a 6 course lute should have 11. There were guitars in the medieval period, but they were also not modern 6 string guitars. And yes, you can play the fantasy card and handwave away the lute. But what is so special about being so bereft of imagination as to render a fantasy world's lute as nothing more than a 20th century guitar in drag? Are not the differences between lutes and guitars a good part of the fun of having lutes in the game?

Zombra wrote:Lately, playing Witcher 2, I've come to appreciate asymmetrical armor designs. First time I saw this, I wondered, what the hell is up with that half a neck guard? Then I thought about it and it all made sense.

Nothing wrong with asymmetrical armour. Doesn't make the single shoulder pad any less stupid. A swordsman can deliver a downward diagonal cut from both sides. But then again, he's not wearing it as armour. Just like the besagew, it's there for show. He's dressing up. Why else does he have 3 layers of clothing on complete with that tartan sort of kilt like thing? I guess an actual kilt isn't manly enough, though he does have the sporran. And two belts, one fingerless glove, different pointless leather wraps on his wrists and that white thing around his neck.

Real warriors wear armour because they're not eager to die. This guy wears armour like he's going to a costume party. And he's going to wear that mockery in a tavern while entertaining real warriors? Look at the bards in the old screenshots posted above. They look like they're dressing up, but in regular clothing. Not in some strange medievalish costume. The one guy even has real jewelry. It was popular with guys at the time.

I agree, but to me this is not a mark against the game or the artist. It just reminds me of the silly-looking weapons we've been seeing in game art since the first days of D&D.

What it reminds me of is the crappy stainless steel swords I looked at in catalogs when I was much younger and more naïve. But this is 2015, and the depiction of swords has improved a lot. You can find pictures of real and quality replicas of swords with just a few seconds of effort. Maybe if the sword was more fantastical I could see giving it a pass. However, it's just badly proportioned but otherwise bland.

PS. Try this guy for comparison. Fantastical? Yeah. Not super realistic by any stretch. But count the pegs on his lute. 11 means 6 courses. I could poke at his outfit, but at least it makes him look like he might be a competent warrior bard.

i thought the bard looked nice in a show-off-y way. It's an artists interpretation of what an artist might have looked in a fantasy setting. rule of cool and several limitations imposed by the presenting media apply.
in any piece of fiction, I try to not let my field of expertise blind/focus me if I wanted to enjoy the experience, nowadays. I'm sorry you are into accurately depictions of lutes, armor and medieval weaponry. if you do not learn to control that anger of yours, it will limit your enjoyment of all kinds of media.

I would occasionally try to point out shortcoming in series like CSI (which admittedly is very easy for anyone with a background in science). the others (usually chemists themselves) just wanted to watch the show and not care about it. it's fun to laugh about it, but it spoils the fun if you rage about it. everyone knew it what was fake, some still wanted to enjoy the show. you would either learn to respect that, or you're shown the door.

everyone knows, that shoulderpads in games are usually too large, the weapons too heavy, yet the animations look like they weight nothing. draw and sheath sounds are horribly fake (metal on metal sound is wrong). If you are a fan of fantasy CRPGs, but you dislike games that display any of this, I have bad news for you: you are not actually a fan of fantasy RPGs any more, because every game does that. shrug it off or move along. I e.g. would not be a sci-fy fan if I pondered too long about any details. *shrugs*

You've got to draw the line somewhere, else it all ends up Bethesda-awesome, like Fallout 3, and the like. I'm not that choosy, but their bard is a border-line case for me, just one step away from Bethesda-awesome.

Drool wrote:They've kind of blurred the line, sadly. Before, it had some real world place names, but was clearly in another reality. BT04 was much more grounded in the real world (it had to be to use Skara Brae) and it seems they're doing that with this one. Instead of a fantasy world, this seems to be more "fantasy version of 3000BC Scotland". Hell, just look at the inclusion of the Trow.

That sucks for a Bard's Tale sequel, but would be wonderful as a brand new adventure/role-playing type game. Hint: Darklands.

Priest4hire wrote:PS. Try this guy for comparison. Fantastical? Yeah. Not super realistic by any stretch. But count the pegs on his lute. 11 means 6 courses. I could poke at his outfit, but at least it makes him look like he might be a competent warrior bard.

Now that's more like it. That's a guy i'd absolutely want in my party, in addition to this one.

Their lutes' don't have a single string, their sleeves would hinder them while playing and their foppish hat has no place on a battle field. ugh, what were they thinking? oh, and the beer has a really unhealthy color
(also, that modern flat design in the second picture... )

ZiN wrote:By the way, Priest, how about these guys? What do you think?

They're certainly better, considering the limitation of their medium. Kind of has a Robin Hood vibe. But colourful is more accurate to the medieval period, and I prefer straight civilian clothing to the armour as jewelry look. Seems like the mug is glass, which would be anachronistic. But heck, with magic and all it can get a pass. Or maybe it's metal and is reflecting his pants? Obviously if he was about to go adventuring, he'd need to change into some armour. Throw on a gambeson, maybe some jack chains, and a helmet and he'd be set.

Gruftlord wrote:i thought the bard looked nice in a show-off-y way. It's an artists interpretation of what an artist might have looked in a fantasy setting. rule of cool and several limitations imposed by the presenting media apply.
in any piece of fiction, I try to not let my field of expertise blind/focus me if I wanted to enjoy the experience, nowadays. I'm sorry you are into accurately depictions of lutes, armor and medieval weaponry. if you do not learn to control that anger of yours, it will limit your enjoyment of all kinds of media.

What anger? What makes you think I'm mad? Because of a piece of pop art on the Kickstarter page? And I'm into accurate depictions... in what sense? You did look at the image I linked. You think that bard has 100% realistic arms or armour? (He doesn't). A lute does not have to be a flawless copy of a historical example to not be so damn lazy as to be a slightly tweaked modern guitar. The choice is not limited to perfectly realistic sword or that stubby bit of nonsense. What's cool about a two handed sword that short? And no invoking of the rule of cool or artistic license makes that armour as jewelry look any less absurd or fake. Either put some real damn armour on, or wear proper clothing.

everyone knows, that shoulderpads in games are usually too large, the weapons too heavy, yet the animations look like they weight nothing. draw and sheath sounds are horribly fake (metal on metal sound is wrong). If you are a fan of fantasy CRPGs, but you dislike games that display any of this, I have bad news for you: you are not actually a fan of fantasy RPGs any more, because every game does that. shrug it off or move along. I e.g. would not be a sci-fy fan if I pondered too long about any details. *shrugs*

Huh, you know, I don't dislike everything that happens to have something in it I don't like in it. Nor do I automatically approve of everything in the games I like. Also, no. Not every every game does that. But heck, I feel perfectly free to like a game, even a lot, and still say that this or that bit was really stupid. Also, since when did I accuse him of having oversized shoulder pads or an overweight sword? Yeah, his sword does look a bit on the chunky side, but it's so short that it'll still be fast with 2 hands. Until someone stabs him a foot past his reach.

And put bluntly, what would have been wrong with making the bard look like his counterparts from the previous games? Not dark and edgy enough? I'm really tired of that nonsense when it's used to justify this sort of art.

PS. I was looking at him and a couple things struck me. Notice how on his right side something is sticking out right below his sword hand? What is that? I though it was one of those short sword things he has behind is back, but neither one lines up with it. And is his lute really short and small? Not one bit of it shows outside the head. And finally, what's holding it onto his back? The other bard I linked clearly has a strap across his chest. But here, nothing. Uh, magnetism perhaps?

FizbanWho wrote:I have played the 2004 version over and over in the different Snarky/nice modes and never stop laughing! I do hope that is new version is much the same or more so! Great work InXile!!!!!

From what we know, this is not the plan. The 2004 "The Bard's Tale" was not really a series title. They had the rights to use the name, and intended a game that pokes fun at RPG clichés.

Most of us assume that Bard's Tale 4 will lean closer to Bard's Tale 3; and I think perhaps akin to Thunderscape or Realms of Arkania.