Comments on: Toyota Plans for Plug-in Production in 2012http://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-plans-plug-production-2012-25901/
Auto alternatives for the 21st centuryMon, 03 Dec 2012 19:24:39 +0000hourly1https://wordpress.org/?v=4.7.2By: apeweekhttp://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-plans-plug-production-2012-25901/#comment-19840
Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:29:46 +0000http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=5573#comment-19840That Wickstrom guy is just some random nobody who made a usenet post. He’s writing from a Comcast address, not a Hughes one. See for yourself:

His usenet history shows no participation in any technical discussions, anywhere. He has no engineering credentials. And his comments display an appalling technical incompetence.

How could headlights – which use under 1% as much electricity as a traction motor – reduce driving range by 10%? The same goes for his other useless points.

]]>By: Reality Checkhttp://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-plans-plug-production-2012-25901/#comment-19839
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:37:24 +0000http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=5573#comment-19839How would you pay for those kind of incentives without borrowing it on the back of our Grand Children as part of the national debt ??? Charge $2.00s a gallon on imported gasoline and diesel – or the equivalent on imported oil used to make gasoline or diesel.

Dedicate all the money from this tax to these incentives.

Talk about eliminating the importing of foreign oil.

Talk about driving down the world wide price of oil and gasoline.

That would do both within five years.

]]>By: Reality Checkhttp://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-plans-plug-production-2012-25901/#comment-19838
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:22:07 +0000http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=5573#comment-19838Here is a clunker replacement program that would get results – not waste money.

Replace a car getting a city / highway average of 18 MPG or less,

With one getting:

25 – 29 MPG Avg. = $750 refundable tax credit

30 – 39 MPG Avg. = $1500 refundable tax credit

40 – 49 MPG Avg. = $3000 refundable tax credit

50 – 54 MPG Avg. = $4500 refundable tax credit

55 – 60 MPG Avg. = $6000 refundable tax credit

No requirement to buy new – used cars up to 10 years old OK.

Now that would get you a very rapid turn over in your fleet from gas guzzlers to what is today very high efficiency and older cars to much newer cars.

Instead Obama is giving rich folks only $3500 to buy cars with average gas mileage of 20 MPG to 28 MPG.

Some folks can screw up a wet dream.

]]>By: Reality Checkhttp://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-plans-plug-production-2012-25901/#comment-19837
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:56:18 +0000http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=5573#comment-19837It appears that government policy in both Europe and the U.S. is in search of the perfect at the expense of the very good.

U.S. EPA rates the non-plug in Toyota 2010 Hybrid ( non-plug in ) at 50 MPG average for both highway and city. This is the current gold standard in Hybrids. These sell for between 20K and 30K before government tax subsidies.

That is 2.7 times the current average gas guzzling clunkers they are trying to get off the road with $3,500 to $4,500 tax credits for the richest Americans ( Obama’s policy – not Bush’s ). Obama will give richer people ( those who pay more than $4,500 in U.S. Income taxes each year ) $4,500 to buy a car that get’s just 28 MPG. More than half the people in the US pay zero ( $0.00 ) dollars in income tax each year – so it only helps the richer half even $1.00s worth.

Tax Credits for just buying a Hybrid, which use to as much as $7,500 have been virtually eliminated.

Plug in capacity without massively expanding battery size could be added relatively cheaply to existing non-plugin hybrids. This might only get you the first 5 to 10 miles per day transferred to the electric grid – rather than imported oil, but times say 50 million cars that could be huge !!!

Obama is instead eliminating effective tax incentives to buy a 50 MPG car rather than a 28 MPG car by phasing out and eliminating effective tax credits for Hybrids ( plugins or non-plugins ) which lack massively larger – and as yet unproven in mass production – electric car batteries.

50 MPG cars are in mass production and using proven technology – in the form of non-plugin hybrids.

It makes more sense to use government policy to pursue say 60 MPG fleets world wide in the next 5 to 10 years than throw Trillions down a rat hole trying to build just a couple ( 2 ) million electric cars with massively larger batteries over the next 5 years.

All the current policy will do is triple electric rates and waste Trillions building cars that likely will be in the junk yard five years after they are built.

]]>By: Lost Prius to wifehttp://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-plans-plug-production-2012-25901/#comment-19836
Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:34:11 +0000http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=5573#comment-19836“Change will not come from the guys who are already on top. It will come from those who need to differentiate themselves:”

ex-EV1 driver, your point is well made.

]]>By: ex-EV1 driverhttp://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-plans-plug-production-2012-25901/#comment-19835
Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:31:41 +0000http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=5573#comment-19835Lost Prius…
One fully tangible hope lies in Tesla, even though this site and many others disregard it as being a limited thing.
They still have a huge backlog for their Roadster and it is taking over its market segment because it offers better performance than any gas guzzler in its segment. Now, we need for it to flow down into the rest of the automobile market. Average people have never thought or acted outside the box. That’s why we have visionaries to lead the way.
Regarding your mentioned companies:
Toyota – maybe
Ford – probably
Honda – not for a long time.
Change will not come from the guys who are already on top. It will come from those who need to differentiate themselves:
Nissan – very likely
Mitsubushi – very likely
Tesla – definitely
Fisker – definitely
Miles – definitely
Remember that it wasn’t Kodak, Fuji, or Canon that led the digital camera revolution, it was the little guys.
]]>By: Lost Prius to wifehttp://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-plans-plug-production-2012-25901/#comment-19834
Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:22:09 +0000http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=5573#comment-19834ex-EV1 driver, I feel, for you and me, any increase in charging time and any added cost for cooling requirements for battery charging are acceptable. These are just a part of changing technology / culture and a part of a new future. It is just a question of how many more people are willing to accept what we are willing to accept. I know of some people that are not willing to accept any electric or hybrid vehicles until those vehicles exactly match the gas guzzlers in both performance and cost. Personally, I think they are not thinking outside the box they are in and about what is needed to make it into the future. Of course, that is a personal opinion that is probably just as opposite to their personal opinion.

Your last paragraph, “Most car companies don’t want electric cars . . .”, is probably all too true. I am hoping that Toyota, Ford, and Honda are trying to help change that culture, both inside and outside their companies.

]]>By: ex-EV1 driverhttp://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-plans-plug-production-2012-25901/#comment-19833
Tue, 07 Jul 2009 04:07:22 +0000http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=5573#comment-19833Lost Prius…,
I don’t see how ambient temperatures factor in to charging rates. One must use enhanced cooling for fast charging electric vehicles using any kind of battery chemistry. This can be as simple as using fans or, for really fast charging, compressor/expansion based cooling (air conditioning) as the Tesla uses or the EV1 did. Li-ion and NiMH batteries work well under the same temperatures as humans do and we definitely are able to exist comfortably in both hot and cold temperatures. I’ve charged a Tesla in open parking lots in Las Vegas where the ambient temperature was around 105 F. Sure, it took about 25% longer than it would have if the ambient temperature were 50 F but it got the job done just fine.
I don’t see temperature as being a significant limitation for battery charging, if a little engineering is done. If you want to charge faster, you must provide more cooling and that’s 100 year old technology.
Most car companies don’t want electric cars so they’ll use any excuse to put it off, even though they all know that electric cars are the solution to some of the world’s bigger problems. NiMH, PbA, or Li-ion will probably all work with different capabilities and prices.
]]>By: RKRBhttp://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-plans-plug-production-2012-25901/#comment-19832
Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:01:19 +0000http://127.0.0.1/wordpress12/?p=5573#comment-19832Toyota is the world leader in hybrid vehicle technology, they estimate lithium won’t be ready until 2012 at best and will get about 20 miles per charge, and they are conservative but have a reasonably successful track record for introducing new technologies and designs. GM has spent billions on unsuccessful attempts to develop electric and hybrid technologies without success, they are trying for a 2010 lithium introduction come what may and project about 40 miles per charge, and they have a record of innovation that includes their diesel passenger car which set diesel vehicles back several years. Hope I’m wrong but …