I'm a stay-at-home-mom

I'm a stay-at-home mom and I live in a middle-upper/middle class suburb. While there there are many SAHMs around here, all I can say is that there are quite a few SAHMs who aren't home a great deal. They hire babysitters and are out getting mani/pedis and shopping for strappy sandals. Their kids are often watched by nannies, and their homes are cleaned by housekeepers.

I'm sure this is politically incorrect to say these things--but there are two kinds of SAHMs and anyone inside these circles knows this. The first group--actually stays home with their children; the second group doesn't schlep to her office job every day--because she doesn't need a job as the family is wealthy. These women really aren't SAHMs.

True, they don't work outside the home. Also true, that they have kids. However, they aren't working at home all day. They have people to do that for them. Having a nanny, a housekeeper, a gardener and someone to run your kids to
all of their activities--isn't YOU being AT HOME.

I have seen this "outsourcing" happen with people who make low six-figure incomes. So, please don't tell me that
someone who is worth hundreds of millions of dollars isn't doing the same. Is someone actually going to try to score
political points by suggesting that Ann Romney made chicken nuggets for lunch, watched Barney with her kids and
was home with them full time during most days changing diapers and spraying Shout on grape-juice stains?

I don't begrudge stay-at-home moms who choose to outsource. But please, let's not call yourself "stay-at-home moms" just because you have kids and you don't work outside the home. If you aren't spending the majority of your day hours taking care of the kids--then you're not really a "stay-at-home-mom".

If Ann Romney did spend most of her time at home, then I'm sorry for mischaracterizing her life. However, if I'm right--she needs to quit calling herself a stay-at-home mom for political gain and feigning outrage because Rosen told the truth about Ann never working a day in her life.

Stay-at-home moms work very hard, and so do moms who work outside of the home. The point of this entire
debate is that Ann Romney is in NEITHER of those categories and she should quit pretending that she is--for political
purposes.

7. That's it, exactly.

I was a single mom, so I'm sort of the "anti" SAHM. No choice. But, I knew many SAHMs that actually worked. Several homeschooled their kids, did charity work, went on "field trips" with other homeshoolers, cooked, cleaned, sewed their own clothes, etc. Two were attending night classes.

13. Yes, the Romneys are worth hundreds of millions of dollars...

They are one of the richest families in the United States. I imagine, as this issue is looked into
a bit deeper--we will hear from nannies, housekeepers and other people who were actually home
with the Romney kids and doing the work.

I bet the Romeny kids went to prep school when were sent away to expensive summer camps.

The Republicans thought they could pounce on Rosen's statement and position Democrats as people
who don't respect stay-at-home moms (LOL!). However, this is all going to backfire in the Republican's
faces because details will trickle out about their extravagant lifestyle and their hired help--which most
average Americans find elitist and foreign to their own lives.

10. Women who are married to men worth

hundreds of millions of dollars do not have to make choices. They have the luxury to do whatever they want.

There are women who choose to stay home with their children and in doing so sacrifice the income that makes the difference between having to worry about and be careful with money and having a comfortable cushion. Ann Romney has lived a life of privilege and what offends me is the charade that she hasn't.

18. Precisely.

ann is guilty of the Bruce Ismay move: stowing away, amongst the 1% women, in a lifeboat while all the other men and all of the 99% passengers went down with the ship.

She's trying to hide herself amongst those women who actually have a direct, day in and day out hand in rearing their children all on their own without the assistance of "the help", while trying to convince us (and herself, possibly) that she's an actual SAHM.

14. Rec' this

15. At Home Dad Here

I am an At Home Dad of three kids under four years old. I LOVE THIS JOB. So much more than I did when I worked for an education association. Being at home is a hell of a lot harder than any other job I had, but still I love it. I do the cooking, laundry, most of the cleaning, all the grocery shopping, etc. and I would not trade it in for the world.

Ann, and let me be frank here, YOU ARE NOT A STAY AT HOME MOM! You are a wealthy woman who does not work. You see them all the time in Arlington and DC. They are the ones with personal assistants who push the shopping carts through Whole Foods while the wife talks on the phone about how busy they are during the day (what with yoga and facials and massages....). They are the ones at the playground that the kids are dying for attention from, while they are in a tight circle chatting away with other rich moms or on their IPhones ignoring their kids. The ones who are paying their nannies too little money and demanding too much of them.

As an At Home Dad, I am offended by Ann Romney's reaction and by the GOP's as well. You show me one picture of Ann with spit up on her clothes, one picture of Ann changing a poop filled diaper (sorry to have to work so blue), one picture of Ann looking so tired and beaten down by kids who were throwing up every 2 hours the night before and I will apologize and shut up.

47. welcome to DU

52. I am a paid stay at home father

and the girls are absolutely more work than my actual work.

I have said this all along, and this is simply the first salvo of the media coming in line for the republicans.

People here have been dancing on the grave of the republican party, and I have tried to tell people that the only reason it was flowing the way it was flowing was because the media was out of its box in the primary. Because the powers to be could not get behind Romney (who the "base" hates) it could not whip the "liberal" media like it normally does.

Because of this, the media called it STRAIGHT the last year or so. The republican primary was a freak show, and they got to call it for that, and not have to carry the water on attacks on the democratic president like they normally do.

It is no coincidence that this strong backlash occurred right when Santorum dropped out.

With Romney now the clear, unchallenged and undeniable presumptive republican candidate, the Rs were able to do their thing - find something innane and drive a politically calculated "controversy" which just happens to cut at the biggest advantage the president has right now.

The game is now what it normally is, and people here need to come to grips with what has been the clear pattern for decades now - a corporate media that will protect the republicans in some innane way despite the undefendable crape they pull while always carrying the water for whatever senseless, ginned up nonsense they create against the Ds.

17. THANK YOU! She's a parent no doubt but there's NO WAY she does day to day house operations like

19. I am really bothered by all the assumptions

that of course the Romneys had nannies and all that. Thus far, no one has stepped forward, and actually this morning on some one of my public radio shows it was said that she had a once a week house cleaner.

Well, I was a SAHM also, and I also had someone come in to clean once a week because I REALLY, REALLY hate cleaning. We weren't rich, either. My now ex never made six figures in the time we were together, but we just lived a less cash-intensive life. Yes, I understand quite clearly the ones who absolutely must work -- I was raised myself by a single mother, but I also see a lot of couples saying how they both absolutely have to work and it's actually because they both want to drive recent-model SUVs, live in a fancy house, and so on and so forth.

While it is true that the Romneys never had to make the tough financial choices that 90 percent or so of their fellow Americans must make, I am really getting tired of all this bashing of Ann Romney for staying home with her sons.

What I often want to ask women who go back to work when their kids are very young, is, "Who is raising your kids?"
Because if you're out of the house ten or so hours a day, someone else is.

23. women who choose to work because they want to

should not be bashed or looked down on, either. Whoever is taking care of their children, I'm sure, has been well vetted by BOTH of the parents, if those parents are responsible. And just as there are irresponsible working parents, there are also irresponsible, stay-at-home parents, too.

For the life of me, I can't understand why there is always this silly competition from women about who is the better mom because of the road the woman has to travel, either by choice or by circumstance beyond her control.

Ann's problem is that her off-the-cuff remark was offensive, considering the buffet of choices which the amount of money the interest on her husband's off-shore-stashed fortune affords her.

She's a grown woman who has chosen to put herself in the public limelight by doing interviews--and as a result, she gets to have tomatoes and eggs thrown at her when she waxes into a boorish Marie Antoinette. If she can't take it or doesn't like it, then she needs to stop doing interviews. She forgets who she's talking to when she does. Callista Gingrich, as loathe as I am to even allot her any kudos, had the good sense to keep her mouth shut when a mike was near by. When santorum's wife did, she started a brush fire with her silly comments.

This mess has just begun in earnest, so she needs to learn a little taciturnity, if she has any good sense.

42. Something else that actually gets lost in the idiotic

battle between Women Who Have Paid Employment Outside the Household and Women Who Don't,
is that there's really more than once sub-category in each of those two. There are women who have careers they truly love, which truly enrich them as people, that they go to gladly. There are those who simply stay in jobs they really aren't very fond of because they need the money. Heck, lots of people without young children are in that group.

I actually feel quite sorry for Ann, because she can't help it that the world of privilege is the only one she knows. We all have certain limitations because of how our lives have gone, what we ourselves have experienced and witnessed. I find it the contempt being poured on Ann Romney here at DU to be completely boorish and uncalled for.

50. The reason it's a holier than thou pissing contest

I've been a stay at home dad for seven years now, and I think a lot of people who work full time, both men and women, really don't get it, and vice versa.

What I've learned as a parent is that different families make different choices. We all have some sort of impulse that says "this is what I've done, therefore it is the universal best choice for everyone." This is a stupid impulse and should be resisted. I've seen this impulse manifested in so many areas of parenting, whether it's breastfeeding, staying at home, daycare, homeschooling, private schooling, public schooling, discipline, etc. Different people make different choices: the fact that I have made a different choice regarding parenting should not threaten your choice, not should I be threatened by your choice. We all have different cicumstances, dispositions, aptitudes, opportunities and support systems. As a stay at home dad with a PhD, I do think some folks think I've made a rather strange choice to be underemployed. To these folks I say: if you know anyone who is willing to hire a PhD with a seven year gap on their C.V., please let me know who they are, so I can send them a resume and a cover letter. I'd love to go back to work full time: it would feel like vacation, at this point. Small children are more demanding than any boss I've ever had, though it's true that the work itself is also more rewarding than even the highest paying job I've ever had.

I've had plenty of jobs in the paid workforce, and being a stay at home parent has been the most demanding job I've ever had. I feel vicerally for stay at home moms, most of whom do not have a husband who is as equal a partner in parenting as my wife is. Good for Hillary Rosen that she has had the opportunity to have access to quality daycare and the money to pay for it to persue her career in Washington. Doesn't mean she's better than Ann Romney, nor does Ann Romney, who probably has had more help cleaning her various mansions than most homemakers have had, have any right to claim superiority over Rosen. We all make different choices, and shouldn't rush to judge people for making choices that are different from the ones we have made.

59. well said. Thank you.

61. I was a stay at home mom and worked the 2nd shift

My husband and I both worked... He worked the day shift and I worked the afternoon shift. I HAD to go back to work as there was not enough money to pay the rent and the car loan and food.

We worked it out so that there was no baby sitter fees.. It was hard on us as a couple...We were like passing ships in the night but both our sons had a parent at home. I did the cleaning and preparing the food and grocery shopping while not at work.

Mrs Rommey DOES NOT KNOW what it is like to be a working mom.

I pray for America to have Obama re-elected and a Democratic congress this November.

Republicans are so mean spirited. Even our Progressive Conservatives are to the left of the American Republican party.

44. Ann Romney is NOT being attacked for "staying home with her sons."

Nothing Rosen said attacked Ann Romney for choosing to stay at home. Rosen attacked Ann for her claim to know average woman's struggles. Since the average women works AND chooses motherhood (indeed they work to feed their kids), it is preposterous that a women who has never struggled financially, let alone held down a paying job, could claim to know the average woman's struggles.

And then, for Ann to get on TV and try to spin it by saying it was an "attack" on her decision to "choose motherhood" shows she's just as slimy as her husband. She is implying that women who work are not "choosing motherhood." In essence, she is attacking working women.

Just because she's had health problems does not get her a free pass. We've all had health problems. Some of us had to go through chemo and radiation at crap facilities while fighting with our HMO and worrying about losing our job and bankrupting our family. Some of us didn't even have a crap HMO or job when we were diagnosed. Just about all of us did this without nannies, cooks, maids and a stable of horses to lift our spirits. Ann does not know what it means to REALLY struggle.

Ann is not a nice person. A nice person would have told Mitt to fuck off and taken poor old Shamus down off the roof of the car!

46. Great post.

You said exactly what I wanted to say about Ann Romney not being attacked for 'staying at home' and I was going to write a post, but after not being able to find the proper words without getting alerted on after hearing crap like "Who is raising your kids?" I figured I wasn't going to bother, so thank you for saying what I was too upset to say coherently.

64. that is the little thing that the tv hosts let her get away with saying

disclaimer: I'm GENERALLY SPEAKING. I'm not speaking to the specific situations to the contrary (pregnancy as a result of rape, etc.) that the argumentative will try to use to derail what I'm saying. I"m speaking in general, broad terms here.

"I'm being attacked because I chose motherhood"... for the most part, women who have children have "chosen motherhood"--by definition. That was not the issue---the issue was her presuming to be able to identify with women who "have chosen motherhood" and who also have to work for taxable income outside the home.

http://www.datalounge.com/cgi-bin/iowa/ajax.html?t=11235592#page:showThread,11235592IRS forms released Tuesday by Mitt Romney's presidential campaign show that despite reporting income of $21.7 million, the couple paid only $20,603 in taxable wages for household help in 2010. This figure was divided among four women: Rosania Costa ($4,808), Kelli Harrison ($8,667), Susan Moore ($2,238) and Valerie Cravens Anae ($4,890).

According to a number of Boston-based domestic staffing agencies, the salary range for a housekeeper is between $20 and $30 an hour, which adds up to an annual salary of $40,000 to $50,000 based on forty-hour weeks and two weeks of paid vacation a year.

Can she relate to the 4 women who she's collectively paid $20k/year to help do the heavy lifting of child care for her? How? Because she got pregnant, went into labor and bore children? It certainly wasn't her having to figure out how she was going to feed, clothe, educate and house those children on $4k/year.

So for ann to say that can relate or is in a position to advise her husband on policy when she's never had to drag her behind out of bed and get herself ready and all 5 of her sons ready for school, drop them off and go work a job that has sucky pay and no benefits, then when that job is done, go to work the second one with sucky pay and no benefits just so she can afford to put food in her children's mouths, clothes on their backs, roof over their heads, doctor's visits, electricity, etc. smacks of disingenousness.

It really shows she's as much of an idiotic robot as her husband is. She is the daughter of a wealthy marine heavy equipment manufacturer and she married a wealthy corporate raider. She may have had a $75/month basement flat when she first got married, but she had a trust fund from which she could tap into at any time were her husband not as liquid as he needed to be. I fail to see how she relates to the mom who waitresses or cashiers at the retail store or works in the chicken factory for a pittance. She did what the state requires all mothers (and fathers) to do: take care of the children she bears. That was her duty and obligation, not a feat above and beyond. That she can do it without worry or breaking a sweat doing labor in exchange for taxable income is what has gotten many folks irritated.

21. Right on the dime.

22. The thing is, you don't know.

You don't know how much time she spent at home, with children, or out getting her nails done.
No one here does.
If they say they do, they either stalked her for 21 years or are lying.
Obama stopped this non-topic cold with his response.
Thank God.
It lives on only in places where it doesn't matter.

25. Ann and Mitt

are spoiled people that think the world revolves around them, and if a child got a sneeze once in their lifetime and they were there to offer a kleenex, it equates to "struggling".

Neither of them has ever endured a true "struggle" and believe it or not? This crap is hurting them with Republicans, too, even as they try to spin it that it really hurt Democratic candidates. All they are doing at this point is HIGHLIGHTING that Ann Romney whined about her suffering while being a wealthy woman that didn't have to turn her hands at all.

I'm thrilled to see Republicans continue with this narrative. Poor, poor Ann Romney, oh how brutally she was attacked and how rough she has always had it.

LOL.

I'm having dinner with my conservative family members, and I'm going to make fun of Romney for all it is worth. It won't be too hard, either, because none of them can stand him. I don't know how such an unlikable politician managed to nearly get the nomination to run for President of the United States. I haven't met a soul that thinks he should be elected and elevated to the position of basket-weaver.

26. She owns, and has owned, multiple dressage horses at one time. Still does.

As a pro in the biz I can authoritatively tell you that at Ann Romney's level she's in the barn for hours daily. She also competes on her own horses and has her horses competed by her trainer which means multiple extended trips of many days per year for the competitions. Furthermore, her horses travel internationally which means even LONGER trips for her and her horses.

That means a LOT Of help. Her daily laundry takes probably an hour at least if she does it alone (for example, just one daily task of re-wrapping clean quilts and wraps is all done by hand) which I doubt. She has to have had nannies for the kids when she was away and especially for the barn (where she either took them with her and they had a nanny to watch them there, or she left them at home with the nanny).

I can't speak to the rest of her life but I know what a dressage queen life is like at the barn and the related tasks associated with that, especially one who has multiple horses (Ann Romney won't fess up how many she owns, saying that even Mitt doesn't know how many its gotten to be so many).

41. Even if that were true it still is just a hobby for her

It's not as if she is trying to make her livelihood that way. Things are much different when you have the option of quitting at any time or just hiring more employees to do the hard work. No matter how much you love your job, things are different when you do things for employment vs doing them for a hobby. There is absolutely nothing compelling her to do anything she does, ever. Very few people have that luxury.

29. An hour per horse per day minimum and that's if the staff does the grooming, tacking and untacking.

If she simply rode and schooled and conditioned each horse without doing any of the rest of the tasks that need doing for horses like this... well, then its HOURS at a minimum at the barn for sure.

That means the staff is clipping, grooming, pulling manes and tails, bathing, wrapping and unwrapping, cold hosing, putting liniment and poultice on and off, medicating etc etc etc. Many owners however love to do that stuff themselves - MORE hours!

Somebody else was helping with the boys and her housework at a minimum but I'd bet big money she also has staff at the barn who work for her beyond her trainer.

28. You nailed it. K&R

30. Who is to say she didn't work hard...

interviewing nannies, juggling family time with Junior League meetings, calling around to get someone to wash down the dog doo soaked car is TOUGH! Not to mention all those letters to draft boards to keep all the litttle Mittsers safe.

32. K&R

33. my mother was a stay at home mom

and my dad for many years wasn't seen, either from being at work outside the home, or sequestered in his TV/radio/etc repair shop somewhere in it.

As one of the youngest of 14 kids, I'd be the last to say that being a SAHM isn't working, but as you noted, and as I thought Rosen poorly attempted to convey, they no more come into existent or continue to exist as equals in terms of the work load they shoulder, than we are born with and cultivate our differing intellectual and physical gifts as individuals. Happenstance more often than not, dictates the quantity and quality of the crop harvested that is our lives, and as you noted, she already had the ground plowed, seeded, and she always had help when it needed to be weeded.

To me this is just another example of the way rightwingers exploit anything and everything they can when in need of a defense, and this one served nicely in providing what it almost always takes the form of -- offensive offense. It has been very disappointing to me to see so many dems from the first family on down, forget about all manufactured outrage right wingers have produced and spread like the fertilizer it is, over issues like Michelle's vacations, etc that impinge upon their family life and therefore the quality of their parenting and "the work they do", like those vacations, etc, aren't earned and deserved, and enter this fray in the way they have.

Meanwhile, it's okay for the titular head of the repub party Limbaugh to call the work product of countless SAHMs and working outside the home moms alike, sluts, for merely intelligently wanting to plan for either role or to never enter it, with contraception.

I grow weary of dems hastily attempting to appease rightwingers with apologies and whatnot -- like during the S. Brown/Breitbart case for example -- when as Scarborough noted whether seriously or not, a West type is almost daily saying something more egregious about their political opposition without any fear of political reprisal or party-wide backlash whatsoever.

That infanticidal marxist muslim born in kenya who's the terrorists best friend currently serving as pres, should have simply said that she doesn't speak for all dems or his team, and that like with his "unprecedented" remark they made a fed case out of for days, they should ask her to clarify her remark.

And of course they, like Romney, have a license to lie freely day in and day out with various defamations in tow, like the aforementioned about BHO above, without having to endure a state of media saturation to the exclusion of all else over it.

This whole affair has been nothing but a distraction, and the right question to ask in my mind of the rightwingers, is "if SAHM are workers, why do you have such an aversion to helping them as enshrined in your war on women this BS is a distraction from?".

It seems to me that their long time used "welfare queen" myth has crashed into the wall of reality they are now trying to erect for protection against the war on womem charge.

62. very good points

I think the corporate media aren't interested in good answers or rebuttals (such as Thom Hartmann's response to Allen West, or your points), sometimes it would spoil the whole game, like when they were after Acorn, or Spitzer, or Anthony Wiener.

65. you know it

that mythical liberal media turned into a lapdog a long time ago, and prefer the "he said/she said" lowbrow stuff to the "agreed upon facts" standard that use to maintain a more informed electorate and keep the political discourse far more civil generally speaking.

It's mostly about appealing to the brain stem as opposed to the cerebral cortex these days.

34. I was a stay at home mom after my 2nd child was born...

My husband and I talked about it in depth beforehand. I had a very good paying job for the time (mid 70's). What would we have to do without? In the end, we decided it didn't matter.

And we did do without...a lot. So did the kids. Of course they had plenty to eat, clothes, and a roof over their heads. We didn't have help to cook or clean the house. A McDonald's kid's meal was a rare treat.

In fact, many years ago I had promised the kids just that...a Happy Meal, and sadly; had to back off. We had some unforeseen expenses, and had less then 10 bucks to take us to their Dad's next pay day, and the car needed gas.

As we were driving home, we saw a couple in a car who were evidently having some sort of disagreement. I saw something fly out of their car window that appeared to be money. It was.

I stopped traffic from four different directions, as I gathered the pieces of torn cash left floating in the intersection. Ended up being change from a $20. The kids got their meal, and we were able to make it to the next pay day.

Hey Ann, anything similar happen to you that you might share with us? Nah, I didn't think so.

35. Well put CoffeeCat! nt

38. I'm sorry this debate is just getting stupid.

I'm sorry. First of all "Stay at Home Mom" is dead stupid description. We are talking about choices, lifestyles, and situations that people find themselves in. It is ludicrous to judge one family against another. Honestly, I find it just stupid and juvenile. So what if someone has babysitters and housekeepers? If they are not a "stay at home mom" then what the f--- are they? Is their office the salon?

I'm just disgusted that women are letting themselves get dragged through an emotional mud puddle over this stupid shit.

39. We're talking about someone who is pretending

that they know what middle class mothers go through because they happened to be a mother. Anne Romney has no clue what average mothers go through because Anne Romney is not Average she was born into extreme privilege and (I'd be willing to bet she never worked a day in her life.)

She is only pretending because she wants to fool Americans so they'll vote for her husband. Who will intern cut taxes for the wealthy and make life even more difficult for moms.

53. My wife was a SAHM....

... our family made a financial sacrifice to do that. We got along on about 60% of what we would otherwise had. My wife still had a role in helping with our finances, cutting coupons incessantly, washing cloth diapers and hanging them out back. She shopped "smart" on everything from almost-expired produce to hitting spring sales for next winter's snow suit.

She cooked virtually ALL our meals at home - we couldn't afford to go out. She shuttled our children to all their activities, was front-and-center in school and other kid-based organizations. She mends our clothes, raises a garden, cans vegetables and pays the bills.

Did I mention both children are special needs kids? She took on "auxiliary education" for our learning disabled son. When the school psychologist said the best we could hope for him was "a job at McDonald's" she politely said "screw you." She spent countless hours helping him digest the same material that came easily to his classmates. He now has a 2-year degree and a good job. He pays taxes.

My wife spent more nights in hospitals than you can count, tending to our daughter and keeping track of a medical history that defies logic. She has spent literally thousands of hours on the phone with insurance companies fighting for payments and keeping us from being completely dropped from coverage, which insurance companies tried to do dozens of times.

In addition, she found time to volunteer, delivering meals to shut-ins, advocating for the poor and most recently sewing 100 dresses and 100 pairs of shorts for the "Little Dresses for Africa" program.

55. Waaaay recommended!

58. The Romney campaign spin machine is in top gear now, insisting that

Ann only had a once-a-week cleaning woman to assist with all of the household duties.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? They're really trying to sell us on the idea that this was ALL of the help she had, at the same time that her dear hubby was being photographed (in that oh-so-telling shot) with all of his cohorts, stuffing hundred$$ in their mouths and lighting cigars with the bills? Give me a fucking break.