unjonharley wrote:So this means your not going to Burning Man?.. We can get along with fewer asshats like you..

Oh, so sorry to offend your highness. Here, I'll turn down my keyboard just for you.

are you the guy who parks the MV in a street at 4 am and plays music at 100 db?Are you forcing your choices, on others?At that, you are not doing it because you "like it", you're doing it as a passive/aggressive bully, who wants to laugh and feel superior to have changed the habits or comfort of others.And then hide behind:"oh, it's Burning Man, we can do what we want", when, what you "want" there is to elicit a negative reaction, and sit proudly, and feel "powerful".

shubes wrote:What next, no lasers because they can cause harm?No display of nudity or provocative imagery because they can harm children development?No defacing the Temple with your thoughts, honors, and totems because it harms the art of the Temple?All sound off by 3:00am because it harms all the sleeple in RV's out in the suburbs?

* there's already been talk about banning lasers. eventually it will come. * since they can't ban nudity, they'll end up banning children for their 'protection'. been talked about for years. eventually it will come.* the temple burn is so uptight with people having their special spiritual moments, eventually anyone speaking above a whisper will be arrested (after they've been beaten, which goes without saying).* 3am is WAY to late for any loud noises anywhere on the playa. a rule will be minted that citizens are deputized to disable or destroy any amplified sound after 12:30am.

the community needs to do what's in the best interest of most people. rules have been pretty lax in the past, but now that this is not your father's burning man, citizens need to be protected against any minor inconvenience so as to provide them with the safest version of the 'burning man experience' as possible. if the dust could be banned it would be. the BMorg still blames the cacophony society for originally bringing larry and his friends out to such an unmanageable location to throw their party.

Last edited by glitter-mouse on Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

666isMONEY wrote:last year there was a noisy generator deep playa that was terribly annoying, maybe it was the same art-project that had a speaker that said random things

i feel your pain. these inconsiderate so-called 'burners' need to be banned from the event with their annoying generators, and art that says random things. this type of stuff is really out of control out there, and i hope the BMorg frees us real burners to take justice into our own hands that we may strike down with great fury and vengeance.

i for one am sick & tired of being slightly bothered and mildly inconvenienced out there. where is the BMorg in all this? when will they respond to our wants?!

Huh? Can you speak up? Oh! You want to know if loud music can hurt your ears. Are you asking because you like to put on your headphones and crank up the volume of your favorite CD? Maybe your mom or dad has told you, "Turn that down before you go deaf!" Well, they have a point. Loud noise (from music or other sources such as machinery or jet engines) can cause both temporary and permanent hearing loss.

Hearing loss means someone can't hear as well as other people do. For some people, that means not being able to hear at all.

If the noise around you is so loud that you have to shout to be heard, there is a chance that the mechanism inside your ear can be injured. Temporary hearing loss can happen after you've been exposed to loud noise for any duration. If you have temporary hearing loss, you won't be able to hear as well as you normally do for a while.

You also could have tinnitus (say: tih-neye-tus), which is a medical term for ringing in the ears. Your ears can feel "full," too. Although your hearing frequently returns to normal, the dangerous part is that you can lose it permanently if you listen to loud noise or music over and over again.

If someone is exposed to loud noise over a long period of time, like every day, permanent hearing loss can occur. This means the person's hearing won't ever be as good as it once was. That's why construction workers and factory workers need to wear ear protection. Lawn mowers and power tools, like chainsaws, also can be loud enough to affect someone's ability to hear high-pitched noises. This kind of noise also can cause a person to have tinnitus all the time.

Listening to loud music a lot can cause the same kind of damage, especially if headphones are used. Some famous musicians have suffered hearing loss and developed tinnitus — a real problem for someone who needs to hear to make and enjoy music. That's why now you might notice that some of your favorite musicians wear hearing protection while they're playing.

You too can help keep your hearing in tip-top shape. Protect your ears by wearing ear protection when you're using machinery, like in metal shop at school. Also remember to turn down the volume, especially when you're wearing headphones or in the car. You also might want to give your ears a rest once in a while if you like wearing headphones.

And if you're going to a concert, consider wearing earplugs to protect your ears from the boom, boom, boom! In fact, special earplugs can be made for you if you're going to concerts a lot or if you're a musician yourself. Take these steps now and you won't be saying "What?" later on.

gyre wrote:some seeing eye wrote:In a free sound field, like outdoors, doubling the distance reduces the level by 6dB and halving it increases the level by 6. So a change of 6 is half or twice as loud.

Sound measurement is logarithmic.Depending on how this is read, I think it is misleading, or just wrong.

Ask any sound professional. And bring a sound level meter to the Playa and a laser rangefinder and you are a deputized sound professional!

I have an issue with the "twice as loud" characterization.

People need to understand the way perceived audio levels relate to area and decibel levels.Doubling audio output from speakers does not result in double the perceived volume, but in the logarithmically estimated decibel measurement in perceived volume, only an incremental increase.But in a system operating in an open area, the amount of people by area annoyed as shit, will double.

Doubling the perceived volume level up close to the system will result in annoying the fuck out of a logarithmically larger group of people, than the people interested.

I'm talking about measured by science, and repeatably measurable, dB SPL A. How eplayans can measure sound levels with a smartphone app in their daily lives and relate it to published typical levels for reference. How anyone can look up hearing damage by dB and time exposure.

If you want to explain to eplayans how jnd and the Fletcher-Munsen curves relate to measure annoyance, go for it. But why?

some seeing eye wrote:There is a fundamental difference on the playa between those who construct identity based primarily on person to person relationships and those who construct identity based primarily on "look at me".

some seeing eye wrote:There is a fundamental difference on the playa between those who construct identity based primarily on person to person relationships and those who construct identity based primarily on "look at me".

666isMONEY wrote:last year there was a noisy generator deep playa that was terribly annoying, maybe it was the same art-project that had a speaker that said random things

i feel your pain. these inconsiderate so-called 'burners' need to be banned from the event with their annoying generators, and art that says random things. this type of stuff is really out of control out there, and i hope the BMorg frees us real burners to take justice into our own hands that we may strike down with great fury and vengeance.

i for one am sick & tired of being slightly bothered and mildly inconvenienced out there. where is the BMorg in all this? when will they respond to our wants?!

I'm sick of amateurish snark. I'm moderately annoyed, can we get bad banter banned from eplaya? Us real eplayans don't have to take this sub-par level of sarcasm.

(Disclaimer: that is a personal opinion, not that of a former moderator. Thank you for not letting your brains splatter onto the mod team when your head explodes.)

After learning to shun the corner sound camps in favor of the deep playa MV party while dancing under the stars, I'm very nervous about that vibe being able to survive after this. If you're telling me that Robot Heart in deep playa.. with it's speakers facing completely opposite of the city must now stick to the 10 and 2 where it's already a giant clusterfuck.. then.. well.. that blows to say the least.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out..

I think it mean you have to be out in open Play beyond 10 & 2...that is a wide open place DEEP OPEN PLAYA but yes I agree with you on this concern.

Give me a break, if you don't like people running up and stabbing you in the ear, DON'T GO TO BURNING MAN!!!!!

because that's what we are talking about. We're not asking for it to be quiet, but we're asking not to hurt human ears and inflict stress- and injury-inducing levels of sound on people who didn't seek out that aural experience by walking up to it. Mobile art brings loud sound that comes and finds you, and that's not exactly fair. Seems pretty fair to ask to keep it to a fun but safe level, especially since the event belongs to all of us, not just those who love loud music.

-AG, who listened to so much loud music back in the day that I now suffer daily hyperacusis and loud tinnitus. I can't hear conversations at my table a restaurant, and loud sounds are terrifically painful. Please have fun, but consider that sounds have very real physical impacts, no matter how much fun you're having.

After learning to shun the corner sound camps in favor of the deep playa MV party while dancing under the stars, I'm very nervous about that vibe being able to survive after this. If you're telling me that Robot Heart in deep playa.. with it's speakers facing completely opposite of the city must now stick to the 10 and 2 where it's already a giant clusterfuck.. then.. well.. that blows to say the least.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out..

I think it mean you have to be out in open Play beyond 10 & 2...that is a wide open place DEEP OPEN PLAYA but yes I agree with you on this concern.

Doesn't say they can't out on the deep playa, just not at the highest levels. Is that truly so awful?

And not playing the inner streets super-loud is just being cool with other burners. Is that so wrong?

it's the "we're forcing you to listen to our music, because we can, and you can't stop us" power trip, plain and simple, IMHO.

sure, it's funny when an art car cruises through at sunrise, playing "my baby takes the morning train", at respectable levels............ and keeps moving. But the ass hats who turn on the super loud crap, and sit there, laughing and pointing, as people ask, then demand, they leave. The also "dare" you to do something about it.........in a false bravado sort of way.

we're asking not to hurt human ears and inflict stress- and injury-inducing levels of sound on people who didn't seek out that aural experience by walking up to it.

the event needs to be safer to be sure. it's still too hazardous and generally annoying on many levels. and all that is causing people to not want to return after about 2 or 3 years. if we can get the sound levels down, and generally make things less annoying for the majority population, the event will have greater retention and we won't have 50% virgins every year. and quite frankly, the environment isn't hospitable AT ALL. dust gets EVERYWHERE and it makes me cough for weeks after the burn. for some people, like the loud noises, the dust is just too much. as if the loud noises and dust weren't enough - the heat is also really, really bad. i get dehydrated even when i'm drinking enough water and this is really not safe and it makes my head hurt.

Humans are notoriously bad at measuring brightness with our eyes and sound levels with our ears. That is why cameras have light meters to set the exposure, even if it's hidden in the camera system. Our eyes have better reflex protection mechanisms than our ears, though those protection mechanisms can be bypassed by certain lasers.

DJ's and house sound engineers are bad judges of sound levels, though they think themselves to be good at it. It's also why many to most have hearing loss. The more hearing loss, the more they turn it up, producing more hearing loss in themselves and the audience.

I love dancing and love dance music, but I also love a quiet spot out on the deep playa to talk, kiss and contemplate. I like time to go deep down into the emotional experience of the temple burn without the distraction of music I didn't choose. No one is stopping anyone from bringing an iPOD+earphones to the temple burn or to the deep playa. And you can turn up those as loud as you like, even bring 2 earphones and a splitter for your sweetie, and matching laser pointers - class 1 of course!

we're asking not to hurt human ears and inflict stress- and injury-inducing levels of sound on people who didn't seek out that aural experience by walking up to it.

the event needs to be safer to be sure. it's still too hazardous and generally annoying on many levels. and all that is causing people to not want to return after about 2 or 3 years. if we can get the sound levels down, and generally make things less annoying for the majority population, the event will have greater retention and we won't have 50% virgins every year. and quite frankly, the environment isn't hospitable AT ALL. dust gets EVERYWHERE and it makes me cough for weeks after the burn. for some people, like the loud noises, the dust is just too much. as if the loud noises and dust weren't enough - the heat is also really, really bad. i get dehydrated even when i'm drinking enough water and this is really not safe and it makes my head hurt.

Honest, honeydoll, you aren't very good at the snark. You're just making us sad for you.

actiongrl wrote:we're asking not to hurt human ears and inflict stress- and injury-inducing levels of sound on people who didn't seek out that aural experience by walking up to it.

the event needs to be safer to be sure. it's still too hazardous and generally annoying on many levels. and all that is causing people to not want to return after about 2 or 3 years. if we can get the sound levels down, and generally make things less annoying for the majority population, the event will have greater retention and we won't have 50% virgins every year. and quite frankly, the environment isn't hospitable AT ALL. dust gets EVERYWHERE and it makes me cough for weeks after the burn. for some people, like the loud noises, the dust is just too much. as if the loud noises and dust weren't enough - the heat is also really, really bad. i get dehydrated even when i'm drinking enough water and this is really not safe and it makes my head hurt.

Honest, honeydoll, you aren't very good at the snark. You're just making us sad for you.

I always camp by this one wreck-no dance stage.. I like to watch the pretty people dance.. I'm far enough away that the sound wont hurt my ears.. At night I go to sleep in the van, Drifting off to the electronic drum..At 4:00 in the morning I get a piss call.. When they shut the stage down and quite drifts over the playa..

What's annoying is a sound bully driving by, drowning out the stage..

One year I noticed a loud ass Mv (on a truck frame) with all six tires flat in the morning. " the one with the Go-Go cages..