God has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. its up to us to find out about God and devolop faith in order for him to be trully revealed

i will give you practical examples of Gods existance but it wont do any good unless you are prepared to explore God for yourself

The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today. the earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life. it isnt just that way because it is.

How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable if it was the result of a "big bang"

can you realate to any of this Rocky

Quote:

What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life

If you can i suggest that God is actually trying to reveal himself to you

Still no evidence then.
As for intelligent design we can prove that the eye evolved, and it dont get much more intelligent than that

- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

Unfortunately Jack, it is quite provable that the earth sustains itself without any outside interference. And every complexity that exists today can be explained as to how it happened -without- the need for a superlogical being.
It certainly doesnt prove there isnt a god but it definitely doesnt prove there is a god.
The big bang is currently the best explanation as to how the universe started. Some religions actually support this theory.

It makes scientfic sense that very few planets could support life. We have basically explored th equivalent of a drop in the ocean in terms of planets in the universe so saying we havent found another 'earth-like' planet doesnt prove anything.

the earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

I can't believe you would say this as an intelligent human being

I go away for a weekend and the lunatics take over.

Firstly Rocksun I suspect you were born after the moon landing and that's why you talk complete nonsense about us not being to the moon.

What do you think all those rockets were doing before man landed on the moon? They went into space so as to help us ascertain whether a rocket to the moon was possible. It was, so we went. It's a fact. Do you seriously think the several astronauts that have been are going to go along with some conspiracy? And they've never mentioned it since?

You're a lunatic and an ignorant one at that.

Where you've proved you have some intelligence is your come back at Jack who seems to believe in intelligent design which is another laughable theory.

Just because you think nature, the universe etc. is inexplicable it doesn't mean some master being created it. It shows Grapefruit that you haven't got a clue how it works.

gunnersingh..its funny you can talk with such certainty as if you were an astronaut or worked for NASA.

If you want to think that sending rockets to space is the same thing as sending a man and being successful your first time out then feel free

and the astronauts have EVERY reason to be quiet about it..they've been immortalized forever by people like you and I know the thought of a person sworn to secrecy is an impossible thought but it happens every day and minute you will spend on this earth

I gave you enough examples about events that people have two opinions about...so think what the hell you want

We're trying to escort you out of the dark ages and guide you from the land of shadow and fantasy Rocky.

Astronauts, people who worked on this studio-based moon landing, various other sundry people which probably number nearly a hundred if not more are hardly all going to stay silent for forty years for the sake of a conspiracy dreamed up by the US government. Plenty would sell their story for big bucks. Add to that that one or two people are incapable of keeping a secret, never mind a hundred or so, and you're pretty naive, if not downright imbecilic, to believe man has never visited the moon.

Many years ago people believed the earth was square and those who sailed too far would fall off the edges. Yet it didn't stop adventurous explorers braving that fallacy and discovering far flung continents.

Man has always striven to explore the outer edges of his known universe. We exhausted our planet so then naturally we wanted to visit other worlds. The moon was the only possible destination. Scientists, physicists etc. didn't suddenly say let's go to the moon in 1969, there was years of preparation and experiment before such an undertaking.

I'm not sure where you got this idea that we'd never visited the moon but it's a misconceived one.

ZainyUnfortunately Jack, it is quite provable that the earth sustains itself without any outside interference. And every complexity that exists today can be explained as to how it happened -without- the need for a superlogical being.
It certainly doesnt prove there isnt a god but it definitely doesnt prove there is a god.
The big bang is currently the best explanation as to how the universe started. Some religions actually support this theory.

It makes scientfic sense that very few planets could support life. We have basically explored th equivalent of a drop in the ocean in terms of planets in the universe so saying we havent found another 'earth-like' planet doesnt prove anything.

This.

Grapefruit there is no proof any superior being exists.

If there is let's see it. But as Moonrockstaar says, if you had proof you wouldn't be wasting your time on here.

To be fair hippo, whilst I believe the moon landing happened, there is hardly overwhelming concrete proof available to the ordinary man to suggest we should believe it happened like we believe the earth is geoid shaped.
You either choose to belive what is told to you and what your subjective experiences lead you to belive or you don't. I think suggesting that someone who shares an alternative view is in the dark ages is a bit unfair. He has just as much objective proof as you and I have on ye matter.

We're trying to escort you out of the dark ages and guide you from the land of shadow and fantasy Rocky.

Thanks but I'm fine...I live a pretty decent life and have done very well for myself especially considering that I've led a tough life growing up

You're not talking to some numbskull living at home with their parents pounding a keyboard all day

The fact that you can't understand that hundreds of people CAN keep a secret is just folly on your part. And if people do talk then all you have to do is say that they are crazy and how come no one else knew and isn't coming forward...done every day mate

Quote:

Many years ago people believed the earth was square and those who sailed too far would fall off the edges. Yet it didn't stop adventurous explorers braving that fallacy and discovering far flung continents.

again we are on EARTH...you can try and fail as much as you want..you are talking about a man leaving the earth and landing on the moon and having no difficulty, no issues, no problems, spacesuits work just fine, nothing whatsoever... you can't even do that today on earth much less in 1969

Quote:

Scientists, physicists etc. didn't suddenly say let's go to the moon in 1969, there was years of preparation and experiment before such an undertaking.

yeah Apollo 1 killed the entire crew in 1967 and thats not an actual landing or anything...just a test launch. but like I said issues happen...yet none with the first man landing...wake up

Quote:

I'm not sure where you got this idea that we'd never visited the moon but it's a misconceived one.

like I said hippo, I'm not alone there are plenty of intelligent people that don't believe this either so leave it at you believe it and I don't

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student: Yes, sir.

Prof: So, who created them?
Student has no answer.

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student: No, sir.

Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student: No, sir.

Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student: Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.

Prof: Yes Faith. And that is the problem science has.

Now the student said can I ask something to you Professor.

Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.

Student: No sir. There isn't.

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?

You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light... But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?
Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)

Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)

Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.
Student: That is it sir... The link between man & god is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive. .

There was countless preparations for a trip to the moon and yet you still think it's all made up.

me and a whole lot of other people...so much that there has been NUMEROUS shows and debates about it over the years with BOTH sides of the story

It's like talking to an infant.

err not really, that would be one brilliant infant...its more like talking to some one that doesn't agree with you

I have no idea where you got your absurd idea that man can't get to the moon when he plainly has.

is that what I said? If you can't comprehend something that has been explained to you and is in black and white for you to read over until you do understand then why continue this

And you still haven't said what reason there would be for this monumental cover up.

yeah I did, hit back on your computer it takes you to previous screens...of course after 1972 no other president has given two f.cks about putting a man on the moon

Do you actually have any friends who agree with this stupidity?

yes, I have friends that agree me about this

again I'll be stupid for thinking an actual human being hasn't stepped on the moon, and to me you will be someone who believes they do...doesnt make you stupid to me, just someone with a different opinion

- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

Padre, you can obtain moon rocks from earth without going to the moon. Meteorites contain moon rocks.
The point is you cant say someone is stupid for not believing in the moon landing because again - there is no tangible proof available anywhere to ordinary people.

Have you considered the very many hundreds of people, not to mention the actual astronauts, involved in the space programme, scientist, politicians, oppostion, and so on, who would have to have been paid off to keep quiet your claims. Your talking about several thousand people mate, for a period approaching 40 years. And are you aware that the Russians, smelling a rat, would very certainly have poured several millions of their own funds into exposing the lie, such would have been the political significance of it at the time.

How do you propose this has been achieved. Long answer please, its a weighty claim you have made there.

Tis a good point. The whole reason the Americans needed to break the bank going to the moon was to beat the Soviets.
Im not sure the American government has ever been intelligent enough to keep a secret indefinitely.
Or maybe thats what they want us to believe...

ZainyTis a good point. The whole reason the Americans needed to break the bank going to the moon was to beat the Soviets.

And the Soviet Union space agency tracked the whole thing and admitted America had put a man on the moon before them. The only way it can be a true conspiracy is for the Russians to have been in on it as well for some reason.
China, India and Europe also have sophisticated space programs which all officially concur that several moon landings took place. The amount of people that would have to be in on this cover up would run into tens of thousands of people. People that weren't even born in 1969 would subsequently have to be recruited to keep the story going. It's as preposterous as they come.

Yes I already made this point but apparently it wouldn't be hard to keep a vast amount of people quiet for forty years. Don't ask me how because anyone familiar with human nature would know that that idea is imbecilic.

Arrogance coupled with wilful ignorance shuns away from the light of reason and rational thought. It's best to leave limited minds to themselves.

And then we had Grapefruit with supposed evidence of God's existence. This has yet to turn up.

What greater good? What has the world lost or gained for not being on the moon?

Some by products of the space programme was the invention of velcro and memory foam mattresses. That's some gains.
Plus brand new metals.

The Russians were monitoring the conversations between Aldrin and Armstrong whilst they were on the moon. If anyone had anything to gain from discrediting the American achievement they would. But they knew the USA had got there first.

They put a reflector screen on the moon to measure the distance from the Earth to the moon. This could only be done correctly by human hand as it had to be aligned properly. Robots could do this now but not then.

There are satellite pictures of the footprints and the tracks of the moon buggy.

In the early sixties there were the Mercury missions and Gemini projects that were undertaken to ensure a successful moon landing.

It's not hard to create a moon-like atmosphere on Earth. A vacuum can be achieved in a laboratory at school.

Why would you keep going back after 1969? Why go to the moon again at the cost of billions of dollars when you can stop in 1969?

Man's greatest achievement, quite possibly, and you seem to be too small-minded to accept it.

In fact your argument was exactly the same as the god believers you rubbished, it had no evidence and was based on faith.

I wish you'd have voiced your doubts to the man in the command centre, forget his name now, but I'm sure he'd have loved you rubbishing his life work. Imagine how insulting that would have been. I think he might have punched you in the face.

ZainyPadre, you can obtain moon rocks from earth without going to the moon. Meteorites contain moon rocks.
The point is you cant say someone is stupid for not believing in the moon landing because again - there is no tangible proof available anywhere to ordinary people.

Well actually moon rocks are unique. They have no water trapped in their crystal structure and common substances such as clay minerals that are ubiquitous on earth are totally absent.

Particles of fresh glass have been found in moon rocks caused by explosive volcanic activity and by meteorite impacts over three billion years ago. The presence of water on Earth rapidly breaks down such volcanic glass in only a few million years.

Therefore these rocks came from the moon.

Also moon rocks are peppered with tiny craters from meteoroid impact. This can only happen on a planet with little or no atmosphere.

These little meteoroids do not reach Earth because we have an atmosphere to protect us.

Simple. All it takes is a tiny amount of research and the ignorant are enlightened.

the moon rocks which conclusive proof that man went to the moon contain unknow particles that are not found on earth..doesnt that make them precious stones. one might even say more valubale than diamonds. imagine proposing to you girlfriend with a huge moon rock

set up a mine there and hey presto that takes care of your financial argument for not returning since 72.

Rockstaar, independently verified by world scientists to be of extra terrestrial origin. Now I'm not saying this is indisputable confirmation of the moon landing but it's pretty hard evidence to suggest that.

Because it costs a fortune to go the moon. The general public lost interest in space travel in the 70's and thought it a waste of money. I tend to agree with them.

Sorry but the moon rocks are incontrovertible evidence and more than one scientist has confirmed that.

I actually couldn't care less whether man went to the moon. All I know is he did.

I loathe this ignorance that gets spread around by people who don't even bother to investigate the rubbish they spout. I've seen it before with some idiot Holocaust denier and this kind of ignorance and arrogance is damaging.

I remember it being said at the time. I was fascinated by space travel when I was a kid but then it was a passing fad and people got back to concentrating on what happened on planet Earth. Rightly so in many ways.

But like wars the space race ushered in many new inventions and discoveries so it wasn't a total waste of time and money.

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