Feminism was never intended to be about women overpowering men or being superior to men.

“Never” is too strong a word. It sometimes was and is. I choose to distance myself from feminism for the same reason I distance myself from “men’s rights activists”. Both are great in theory, but negative and divisive in practice.

“DOWN WITH GENDER ROLES! … except the ones that make life easy and risk-free for me.”

Thankfully there are a handful of women who aren’t afraid to ask guys out and ask for what they want. (And if not for them, I would be a virgin.)

]]>By: Ya don't sayhttp://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/01/16/stop-hanging-out-with-women-and-start-dating-them/comment-page-5/#comment-1132809
Thu, 04 Dec 2014 16:38:00 +0000http://artofmanliness.com/?p=30#comment-1132809I get that it’s also confusing for women, but that is clearly not relevant for this article. The author is explaining why dating declined, and since, before emancipation, it was clear that men asked women out, and now it isn’t, that is confusing for men. Maybe it is confusing for women because they don’t know whether or not they “should” ask out guys, but that did in no way lead to the decline in dating, since women asking men was never the major source of dates. Basically, I am saying that it is unnecessary to point out this aspect because it’s irrelevant for the frame of this article.
]]>By: Tylerhttp://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/01/16/stop-hanging-out-with-women-and-start-dating-them/comment-page-5/#comment-1128353
Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:09:00 +0000http://artofmanliness.com/?p=30#comment-1128353This article is both insightful and very correct, in my opinion, save for one point: When you ask a woman out on a date, at least nowadays, you are putting a lot more on the line than just a chance at going on a date with her. You’re also putting what friendship you have on the line, because if she says no, then the friendship takes a huge hit. Things become awkward to the extreme around each other, and you both find you’re just too embarrassed to talk much. So, in addition to the hurt of rejection, men also have to ask themselves if they’re willing to sacrifice the friendship for a chance at something more. That, more than anything, is the cause for our hesitation.
]]>By: Johnhttp://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/01/16/stop-hanging-out-with-women-and-start-dating-them/comment-page-5/#comment-1128026
Tue, 18 Nov 2014 02:36:00 +0000http://artofmanliness.com/?p=30#comment-1128026I have a question:

How does a man go about rejecting a woman after a date? I mean to say, if the man finds that he is not interested in the woman after all, how does he tell the woman that he’s finished dating her?

]]>By: Mayahttp://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/01/16/stop-hanging-out-with-women-and-start-dating-them/comment-page-5/#comment-1125318
Wed, 12 Nov 2014 06:41:00 +0000http://artofmanliness.com/?p=30#comment-1125318For all those confused about feminism–Feminism was never intended to be about women overpowering men or being superior to men. It was about equality in a social-economic-political context. It gave women the right to vote, study at schools, work, represent themselves in the Government, exercise equal rights, be paid equally for equal work.

Somewhere down the line people got confused between equality and sameness. And feminism began to take all kinds of strange forms. Women are as much to blame as men for this.
You see, men and women are equal but they are not the same. Even if they are socialized similarly, biological differences and behaviors arising from them will continue to persist.
Just because a woman can earn as much as a man doesn’t mean he cannot open the door for her. It is a simple courtesy. She can return similar courtesies without having her femininity challenged. It doesn’t mean women are weak. A woman need not smoke just to prove she can do anything like a man. Wearing makeup won’t automatically make her a bimbo. Feminism is about having choices for women and empowering them. This is in turn serves men too and empowers them as well when done in the right, benevolent spirit-“we are in this together” rather than “women vs men”.
It doesn’t mean women have to be “everything” or “just like a man”. That’s just stupid.
As soon as people realize that, problem solved.

]]>By: Mayahttp://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/01/16/stop-hanging-out-with-women-and-start-dating-them/comment-page-5/#comment-1125317
Wed, 12 Nov 2014 06:32:00 +0000http://artofmanliness.com/?p=30#comment-1125317I understand your sentiments. Dating can feel high pressure with strict rules about how each gender should behave. Comparatively, “hanging out” feels more casual and low pressure. I used to feel that way when I was young. I worried about food stuck in my mouth and if I was being a lady and was uncomfortable with receiving romantic attention form men and having them pay for me. I wanted to be “friends first” and get to know the guy. Dating simply seemed intimidating.
But as I grew older and became more comfortable with my femininity, I began to desire dating. Hanging out seemed incomplete and ambiguous. It did not make me feel special. But most importantly, it did not really allow me to see how good of a partner a guy would make because dating allows a woman to see male investment and in turn allows her to show her own investment as well.
I also realized that in fact, hanging out creates more confusion, frustration, hurt, shame, anger and what not compared to dating. Of course one cannot avoid rejection in ANY scenario. Hanging out robbed me of the romance that I longed for but did not acknowledge even to myself. You see, what makes romantic relationships different from friendships and other relationships is the romance. No matter how much people may scoff at it-I do believe that romance is essential. The problem is that people think romance is chocolates and flowers and sentimental songs. Not true. It comes in many shades.

It seems your problem with dating is that it very narrowly defined.
Dating doesn’t have to be stiff and formal. You can always have a casual date like walking in a park.
Dating doesn’t mean you have to follow some rituals or rules. You don’t need to spend tons of money or plan elaborate things. It doesn’t mean you have to put a woman on a pedestal and impress her and “win” her. It DOES mean you treat her nicely.
Dating is about getting to know a woman in a romantic way and being CLEAR about it and TAKING INITIATIVE as a man.
It is NOT a pathway to marriage if you don’t want it to be–as long as you are clear about your intentions.
Dating allows you to be clear that you are interested in someone romantically and get to know them one-on-one. Dating can be really fun if you just relax and let things flow. Remember you are evaluating a woman just as much as she is evaluating you as a potential mate. It is an EQUAL playing field.
If dating is not like this, something is wrong.
If you think hanging out a few times with a woman (with other people or without) will help you ease into dating–sure go ahead. But do NOT REPLACE dating with hanging out. You will do yourself a great disservice.