The Elemental Forums have the change log for a new version 1.08b patch for Elemental: War of Magic that's now available through Impulse. The new version has a bunch of changes, including the beta version of the strategy game's multiplayer support, which they explain like this: "We designated multiplayer as 'beta' because we disabled playing against AI until next week. I had written a lot of AI code this week that is in the single player version but had not been adequately tested for MP. We didn’t want to give players the impression that was considered the feature set in multiplayer as being all that’s coming." They also discuss the future: "Next week we anticipate releasing v1.09 which will continue to address issues that were not found in the initial release, improve computer AI further and provide it and other new MP features. After that, we will begin focusing on v1.1 which will be the first post-release update that is designed specifically to extending game play." Thanks Big Download.

Perhaps. I'm certainly not going to try and justify it for him. The only ray of sunshine in this whole mess is that they are one of the few companies that would put in the effort to fix the game. Still, had I bought this game, I would be feeling pretty ripped off.

Stardock knowingly released an incomplete product hoping fans would be forgiving and patiently wait for patches to complete the game.

That's not true, if you believe Brad (and I can see justifiable reasons not to). His story is that he truly believed that the game was ready to ship, because he was "too close" to the source, and didn't have perspective.

I believe he probably did think it was ready to ship but not because he was "too close" but because he probably made a series of increasingly suspect rationalizations.

"If we just finish x and y then that should be good enough to make the targeted release."

Stardock knowingly released an incomplete product hoping fans would be forgiving and patiently wait for patches to complete the game.

That's not true, if you believe Brad (and I can see justifiable reasons not to). His story is that he truly believed that the game was ready to ship, because he was "too close" to the source, and didn't have perspective.

Not sure if I buy that myself, but still, Stardock is hardly the only company to release a product with the expectation of a 0-day patch these days.

Sepharo wrote on Sep 19, 2010, 07:18:At least WoW and HL2 were finished. They suffered from release/distribution/server-load issues (and a few bugs) but they weren't incomplete.

Stardock knowingly released an incomplete product hoping fans would be forgiving and patiently wait for patches to complete the game.

Yeah, I'll give you that. If Brad is to be believed, he was so enamored with the project that he didn't really think it was in too bad a state at release; not seeing the forest for the trees basically.

That's IF you believe Brad. I'm sure that a lot of people believe that's just a cover story to make it sound better than knowingly releasing a broken game. Personally, judging by his initial ardent defense of the game's state, I actually believe him.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” - Mahatma Gandhi

At least WoW and HL2 were finished. They suffered from release/distribution/server-load issues (and a few bugs) but they weren't incomplete.

Stardock knowingly released an incomplete product hoping fans would be forgiving and patiently wait for patches to complete the game.

I'm sure it was a very tough call to make when that planned release date rolled around and Brad realized that they weren't going to make it. Delaying the game would have likely meant a huge loss, especially for an independent developer. So the decision was made to work their asses off on getting out a zero day patch (which still wouldn't have completed the game) and then retailers go and break street date making the release an even bigger failure.

FWIW, Demigod is really good now. I got it late so I missed all of the horrible launch issues. The biggest deal is that they never really gave the community what they needed to make their own maps. Very strange for a Stardock-published title.

I'm a little stunned at the comment that only Stardock and Ubisoft are guilty of this type of release. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Blizzard screw the pooch about as bad with the release of World of Warcraft? Multi-hour long queues and all kinds of connection problems were commonplace from what I've read. Anyone remember all the problems with Half-Life 2 and Steam when they launched? I couldn't play Half-Life 2 for days, and when I finally convinced Steam to let me run it, the dreaded sound glitch rendered the game unplayable for another 2 weeks. Not for everyone, but for many people. Honestly, I can't think of a publisher whose been around for any length of time that hasn't had an abysmal release at least once. I'm sure there are a few that didn't, but every one that comes to mind certainly did to my recollection.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” - Mahatma Gandhi

Scottso wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 23:29:For what it's worth, it's really easy to get a refund. Coming here complaining that you should have bought Civ 5 instead is kind of disingenuous since you CAN get a refund on Elemental. Let's see you get one if you decide you hate Civ 5...

How? Tell us how you can get such a refund. You can't return opened software. EBgames/Gamestop won't take back PC games used.

People got screwed huge, months later this game still isn't playable with the FULL feature set it promised upon release.

Did you actually buy it from one of those places? I only ask because one of the biggest complaints was that it was hardly available on store shelves, only directly from Stardock.

That said, it's not hard to go to their site and learn how to get a refund. If you can't be bothered to find out on your own then I'm not going to hold your hand. Perhaps you are one of those people who post "their opinion" when they didn't even actually buy the game?

Mind you I'm just as disappointed as everyone else at how it ended up being released and I'm hardly a fanboy. I'm just pointing out the fact that Stardock has always been, in my experience, accommodating and they will take care of you if you bother to take it up with them instead of random whining on random forums. But I understand why expecting a bit of effort might be asking too much from some.

PM me your email address and I will scan a copy of my receipt of the purchase. If you're going to go that far to be a d-bag, the gloves come off.

zodden wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 22:27:At least Stardock continues to try and improve the game and fix it. Many companies abandon totally a project that's less then successful.

True, and that is one of the qualities that made Stardock's good reputation. They have been working hard under horrible stress for weeks at this point, and shown that they truly care.... but....

Elemental should never have been released in the first place. We all hear about buggy games, but seriously I have been playing computer games for twenty years and Elemental is on top of the list for 'bad state at release'. Good post release support does not excuse releasing garbage.

Stardock has veered into dangerous turf, and they have gotten zapped for it. They thought that any failings could be made up for in a quick 0day patch, and they planned their business strategy around that. An example is the multilayer - it is touted as a feature yet we now know they never intended to have that as a feature at release. They thought they would patch that in one week after release. Instead, the product is so distressed and they are so far behind that one month after release they still have not implemented it.

Yeah I am going to have to agree with you here, never should have been released. When you mentioned about the multiplayer it made me think they had to have known in beta that multiplayer was not going to make it even if they somehow fixed all the problems with a 0 day patch. Its almost like they ran into some huge problem that they just couldnt fix for weeks on end, or they put a ton of work into some features and then during beta abandoned them and went with a whole new set of features or gameplay.

I hear people talk about they should have extended beta till the game was finished, but I dont think that really applies here. I really feel like they should have extended the alpha, fleshed out the game play and then used beta only for stress testing. That way they are not setting a release date or co-ordinating with marketing on whats on the box, until they have a comfortable, stable game.

As for Civ 5, Sid Meier can keep his game with his vapor A.I. Thats so advanced it has to cheat in order to make a competent opponent. I mean Starcraft has better A.I. and its an RTS... Ofcourse I guess you could argue at least it has an A.I. unlike Elemental, and you would be right.

If you are content throwing money at a sinking ship, that's your business. I was only here to express my frustration and to perhaps warn others not to make the same mistake I did.

The fact that you can't see any middle ground between being content and "OMG I'll never ever buy anything from them again, no matter what!!!" is kind of what I was referring to. I don't like what happened, and as I've already said, I'll be adjusting my expectations and actions toward them to make sure I don't buy a crappy product from them again. They'll now be treated basically like any other publisher, which means they don't get the benefit of the doubt, and they certainly won't get a pre-order.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Sep 18, 2010, 12:26:I'm sure they'll terribly miss the drama queens they lose. Where will all the wailing and gnashing of teeth come from on the forums?

Actually, I suspect they will miss my dollars. Stardock's recently laid off staff will miss the money that is certain. It was a promising company, but they have two black eyes now and are getting beaten up pretty bad press-wise. Hell, even their CEO criticized their own product.

If you are content throwing money at a sinking ship, that's your business. I was only here to express my frustration and to perhaps warn others not to make the same mistake I did.

If you bailed on every company that fucked up like this, you would have bailed on Stardock and Ubisoft. That's about it.

Really, because no other companies have ever released games that were buggy messes? Have you been gaming for more than a month?

I'm not sucking up to them either. I think they fucked up badly. I'm just being realistic about it. I already said I'd be a lot more wary about buying anything from them. I normally never pre-order games. I took a chance this time because Stardock usually delivers, both in games and their desktop apps. I got burned, so I'm gonna be more skeptical going forward. Simple as that.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)

Well I took what I could get, but I am here to tell you...I AM DONE WITH STARDOCK! They used to have my highest respect, but after getting the shaft with Demigod and now this piece of bantha poodoo, I am done with Stardock, Brad Wardell, and Impulse.

They have lost this customer for life.

I'm sure they'll terribly miss the drama queens they lose. Where will all the wailing and gnashing of teeth come from on the forums? Really, if I bailed on every company that fucked up like this, I'd have to quit gaming altogether.

From what I've heard from others, Demigod turned out pretty good after a while. I never bought it since it's not really my thing. I'm willing to wait and see how this game turns out too. Between the fixes they make and the moddability of it, I'm sure I'll end up with something that's pretty good. I've got plenty to play in the meantime.

If you bailed on every company that fucked up like this, you would have bailed on Stardock and Ubisoft. That's about it.

Demigod just plain died, it did not turn out good.

When you suck up to a company that takes your money and gives you a non-functional product you just encourage them to do it again. You'll get exactly what you deserve when you go buy their next game and it is also a half-finished buggy mess.

Well I took what I could get, but I am here to tell you...I AM DONE WITH STARDOCK! They used to have my highest respect, but after getting the shaft with Demigod and now this piece of bantha poodoo, I am done with Stardock, Brad Wardell, and Impulse.

They have lost this customer for life.

I'm sure they'll terribly miss the drama queens they lose. Where will all the wailing and gnashing of teeth come from on the forums? Really, if I bailed on every company that fucked up like this, I'd have to quit gaming altogether.

From what I've heard from others, Demigod turned out pretty good after a while. I never bought it since it's not really my thing. I'm willing to wait and see how this game turns out too. Between the fixes they make and the moddability of it, I'm sure I'll end up with something that's pretty good. I've got plenty to play in the meantime.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)

Scottso wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 23:29:For what it's worth, it's really easy to get a refund. Coming here complaining that you should have bought Civ 5 instead is kind of disingenuous since you CAN get a refund on Elemental. Let's see you get one if you decide you hate Civ 5...

I tried getting a refund, but Stardock would only give me Impulse credit. They said because I paid with PayPal over 60 days ago (because I put faith in this company and pre-ordered), I can only get store credit.

Well I took what I could get, but I am here to tell you...I AM DONE WITH STARDOCK! They used to have my highest respect, but after getting the shaft with Demigod and now this piece of bantha poodoo, I am done with Stardock, Brad Wardell, and Impulse.

D_K_night wrote on Sep 18, 2010, 03:48:How? Tell us how you can get such a refund. You can't return opened software. EBgames/Gamestop won't take back PC games used.

Contact Stardock customer support and they will refund the game. You get a 75% refund if you just don't like the game, and 100% refund if you have technical issues with the game (for which you will have to talk to their tech support first). If you bought the game more than 90 days ago, then you will get Impulse store credit instead of actual money in your refund.

Some of the most miserable and unhappy gamers on the planet are at Bluesnews

Scottso wrote on Sep 18, 2010, 04:07:Did you actually buy it from one of those places? I only ask because one of the biggest complaints was that it was hardly available on store shelves, only directly from Stardock.

Scottso wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 23:29:For what it's worth, it's really easy to get a refund. Coming here complaining that you should have bought Civ 5 instead is kind of disingenuous since you CAN get a refund on Elemental. Let's see you get one if you decide you hate Civ 5...

How? Tell us how you can get such a refund. You can't return opened software. EBgames/Gamestop won't take back PC games used.

People got screwed huge, months later this game still isn't playable with the FULL feature set it promised upon release.

Did you actually buy it from one of those places? I only ask because one of the biggest complaints was that it was hardly available on store shelves, only directly from Stardock.

That said, it's not hard to go to their site and learn how to get a refund. If you can't be bothered to find out on your own then I'm not going to hold your hand. Perhaps you are one of those people who post "their opinion" when they didn't even actually buy the game?

Mind you I'm just as disappointed as everyone else at how it ended up being released and I'm hardly a fanboy. I'm just pointing out the fact that Stardock has always been, in my experience, accommodating and they will take care of you if you bother to take it up with them instead of random whining on random forums. But I understand why expecting a bit of effort might be asking too much from some.

Scottso wrote on Sep 17, 2010, 23:29:For what it's worth, it's really easy to get a refund. Coming here complaining that you should have bought Civ 5 instead is kind of disingenuous since you CAN get a refund on Elemental. Let's see you get one if you decide you hate Civ 5...

How? Tell us how you can get such a refund. You can't return opened software. EBgames/Gamestop won't take back PC games used.

People got screwed huge, months later this game still isn't playable with the FULL feature set it promised upon release.