You speak too easily about early CHURCH society. In truth it was a mess! Polycarp (St. Johns pal) forcefully outlines in his writing a nascent top-->bottom church structure.(Pope?)Clement rails at the Corinthian Christian youth and both Marcion & the Manichaeons were 1st century heretics.

For believers ( then & now ) in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior **shit happened fast**. Blame it on Lucifer as did Church fathers ... or simple over-reach.

Kevin wrote:

Christian believers are suspending going to church and switching to house meetings instead. Their reasons vary, but it is safe to say that all of them are tired of being programmed by a solo speaker professional elitist who downloads their spiritual food week after week.I was driven to write a few words about this subject because of a piece that appeared in a past issue of Newsweek. Lisa Miller says in Finding Spirituality at Home,[Believers] mistrust authority and institutional hierarchy. This, according to her, seems to be the principal reason so many are abandoning the big churches in favor of house meetings commonly called house churches (a term I dislike). And some of the big churches are hurting. They are not hurting in spirit, but in the pocketbook!

<quoted text>You mean this thread not this forum. You've routinely placed your unresolved anger on display in attacking others with a differing opinion. With regard to mean-spirited comments directed at you: two wrong don't make a right. That doesn't justify your threats and attacks in this forum. Professional help could transform your life.

If you see me threatening anyone in the forum all you haft to do is flag it. Didn't you read the terms and agreement of the forum? I challenge you to post a link in any thread where I have threatened anyone or showing where any of my post have been deleted.

As far as the name the calling goes, I call it like I see it..

The only thing you have proven here is that my superior intellect and debating skills, have you glued to my every post.. But being that you dont have the ability to go after my views, the only thing you have left is crying on my shoulder..

<quoted text>"Your church"? Is Satan welcome? Just wondering, because most of the preachers today are employed by him.2 Corinthians 11:13-1513 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

What will Jesus do when the DEVIL gets saved? Yes, even the DEVIL is welcomed....we will transform him too. My GOD can handle the Devil.

<quoted text>"Your church"? Is Satan welcome? Just wondering, because most of the preachers today are employed by him.

You forgot one.. And this pretty much contradicts your reasoning, and the bible..

Hebrews 13:17

Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

You're entitled to believe what you want to believe, but it isn't Christianity.

You only get ONE shot at Heaven. Satan wasn't a human being. He was and is a spirit form. He started out as an angel. He was cast out of Heaven. He has NO CHANCE of "getting saved" or re-entering the Kingdom. He had one chance. There is no second opportunity to re-enter the Kingdom.

<quoted text>You're entitled to believe what you want to believe, but it isn't Christianity.You only get ONE shot at Heaven. Satan wasn't a human being. He was and is a spirit form. He started out as an angel. He was cast out of Heaven. He has NO CHANCE of "getting saved" or re-entering the Kingdom. He had one chance. There is no second opportunity to re-enter the Kingdom.

So no need for the Second coming? I guess that we can tell Jesus that he isn't needed in the future. Thanks. I am sure he has better things to do than to save all of humanity.

<quoted text>You're trying to swerve.Jesus is coming. But he isn't coming to "save" the Devil. The Devil was an angel, was and has always been a spirit form. He was cast out of Heaven. There is no chance for him to re-enter the Kingdom.

For this discussion we are going to leave out the first four commandments as they are specifically about religion. Now the Final 6 are about life style and in general a map to a good life.Honour thy father and thy mother What will be the agreement against this one. If your parents treat you with respect, and you treat them with respect then odds are the same will be true between you and your children.Thou shalt not kill. In the big picture does anyone have an issue here? Granted I draw a line for this one when it comes to punishment for crimes against others aka death penalty I dont see it as killing but as the balancing of justice. But that is my opinion. Neither shalt thou commit adultery Any objections here?Neither shalt thou steal. Here, any justification for stealing?Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor. This one, what if every man women and child lived by this no matter their religion, if any at all?Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbors wife; neither shalt thou covet thy neighbors house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or anything that is thy neighbors. Any objections here?

The point is some say these are religious rules only for those who support Christianity, than again do we need a Church to tell us these things?

A sad error you make LIJ ... and on the 1st Commandment no less. This 1st commandment defines the Abrahamic life-style in our material world.

'... have no god before me.'

Not wealth not power not leader not ego not faction not property. A human must refuse to play-pimp for any hustle. All material and personal value must play 2nd-fiddle. Talk about defining life in the physical world!

'I am the Lord thy God ...'

Mr Logic in Jax wrote:

For this discussion we are going to leave out the first four commandments as they are specifically about religion. Now the Final 6 are about life style and in general a map to a good life.

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