I have been very controversial e/o straight forward in the past and have since avoided all together posting comments on certain topics, for many reasons as well as also some people on these boards did not recognise my contruibution... However, in pictures posted both in this section (Neapolitan Style), in the Restaurant review and occasionaly other parts of this forum, I often seen pizza with very large, and consistently so, black burnt buble on teh crust and all users commenting on how great that looks and surely it will be a great pizza etc... I would like to just point out that consistent large black burnt buble is not the "leopording" we should be looking for, which should be almost micro bubles evenly distributed with the occasional larger one.

Evenly or not so evenly but many large bubles that have been burnt in a pizza crust baked at high temperature, is a CLEAR INDICATION OF A DEFECTIVE DOUGH! The defect itself can be one or a combination of things, but surely it is a clear defect in the dough that shows when cooking.

A good baking, thanks mainly to a great oven like the one we offer at Forno Napoletano, can emphasise and complete a great dough with micro leoparding, and the recent pictures of Ciro Salvo's pizza are a Mastercalss example of this

cornicione54

Am I right in thinking that this forum coined the word "leoparding"? In fact the whole notion of leoparding as a defining feature of Neapolitan pizza stems from here as I recall. I certainly haven't seen as much discussion of it anywhere else. Still I guess that's what happens when you start reverse engineering food based on appearance rather than taste.

Am I right in thinking that this forum coined the word "leoparding"? In fact the whole notion that leoparding is a defining feature of Neapolitan pizza came from here as I recall. I certainly haven't seen as much discussion of it anywhere else. Still I guess that's what happens when you start reverse engineering food based on appearance rather than taste.

Thanks for finding that. The search engine usually picks up words, like leoparding, that include the search term, like leopard in this case. I should have searched leoparding just to be on the safe side.

cornicione54

Marco I respect that you have business interests to protect (Forno Napoletano et al) but labelling food "defective" based on the size of blisters alone is absurd.

So what if someone makes a pizza with slightly larger black spots than Marco deems acceptable? If it tastes good then who the hell cares? Sure it might be outside one man's idea of the Neapolitan norm but to call it "defective" is a bit much especially seeing some of the pizzas that come out of Da Michele and indeed Marco's beloved Franco Manca for that matter.

I would like to just point out that consistent large black burnt buble is not the "leopording" we should be looking for, which should be almost micro bubles evenly distributed with the occasional larger one.

Evenly or not so evenly but many large bubles that have been burnt in a pizza crust baked at high temperature, is a CLEAR INDICATION OF A DEFECTIVE DOUGH! The defect itself can be one or a combination of things, but surely it is a clear defect in the dough that shows when cooking.

Marco, I have (as I'm sure many have) noticed that larger leopard spotting seems to be pretty common among pizzerias employing Stefano Ferrara ovens. I'm not certain if it is something about the oven itself which helps to create this or that several pizzerias which employ Stefano Ferrara ovens also utilize refrigerated, cold fermentations for their dough....which could lead to a potentially cooler skin when launching into the oven (which may aid in larger leoparding) or some other factor. Most likely some combination of several items.

It cannot go without mentioning that some of the newer "Neapolitan" pizzerias which have opened up in the USA over the past few years have pizza makers at the helm with relatively little pizza making experience.

Personally, I have no interest in recreating pizzas that are exactly like the pizzas produced in the best establishments in and around Naples. My personal preference is for a bit more chew/structure in the crumb than would be deemed authentic to stout devotes of Neapolitan pizza. While my pizzas are certainly heavily influenced by Neapolitan pizza, I would never tell anyone, or advertise, the pizzas as being "Neapolitan" or "authentic Neapolitan". It just ain't so! --K

Yes, the DOUGH IS DEFECTIVE, therefore not optimal for pizza napoletana production, and teh results is defective. It is becoming a standard here that all admiring and I am opointing out that there are defective in that dough that can be seen by that results.

The comment about the ovens I represent was ONLY that they help enphasise the opposite dough and the microleoparding, I am not talking about other producers etc, as the oven can sometime hide or hempasise good and bad things.

What is more some time there are handling defects, or occasional defective doughs batches even in the best pizzeria.

The problem is that when those example are shown on this forums, everyone thinks this is actually a good thing to achieve. I have never before made a comment as it would be again good advice that some people does not appreciate...

Cornicione, some knowledge of PIZZAMAKING in a professional environment, and baking science and technology is that basis of identifying such a defect by watching at pictures. On the contrary, I have recently often seen pictures from Japanese pizzeria, that shows great doughs with perfectly distributed microspots. This has nothing to do with my business interest in Forno Napoletano, but as you sems to know better, can you tell us why these large blisters may occur (when largely distributed on the final pizza, not the odds ones), why this is not a defect and why we should all instead aiming at producing such a thing?

Many thanks and regards

Logged

cornicione54

Yes, the DOUGH IS DEFECTIVE, therefore not optimal for pizza napoletana production, and teh results is defective. It is becoming a standard here that all admiring and I am opointing out that there are defective in that dough that can be seen by that results.

The comment about the ovens I represent was ONLY that they help enphasise the opposite dough and the microleoparding, I am not talking about other producers etc, as the oven can sometime hide or hempasise good and bad things.

What is more some time there are handling defects, or occasional defective doughs batches even in the best pizzeria.

The problem is that when those example are shown on this forums, everyone thinks this is actually a good thing to achieve. I have never before made a comment as it would be again good advice that some people does not appreciate...

Cornicione, some knowledge of PIZZAMAKING in a professional environment, and baking science and technology is that basis of identifying such a defect by watching at pictures. On the contrary, I have recently often seen pictures from Japanese pizzeria, that shows great doughs with perfectly distributed microspots. This has nothing to do with my business interest in Forno Napoletano, but as you sems to know better, can you tell us why these large blisters may occur (when largely distributed on the final pizza, not the odds ones), why this is not a defect and why we should all instead aiming at producing such a thing?

Many thanks and regards

Oh dear. It seems you have completely misunderstood what I was saying (I realise this might be a language thing). At no point did I suggest that large blisters were a GOOD thing. In fact quite the opposite - I am suggesting that blisters aren't an issue. The truth of the pizza is always in the eating in my, admittedly uneducated, opinion. If you believe that large blisters are a sign of bad pizza then that's great but please don't dictate to others what they should enjoy or find acceptable.

Oh dear. It seems you have completely misunderstood what I was saying (I realise this might be a language thing). At no point did I suggest that large blisters were a GOOD thing. In fact quite the opposite - I am suggesting that blisters aren't an issue. The truth of the pizza is always in the eating in my, admittedly uneducated, opinion. If you believe that large blisters are a sign of bad pizza then that's great but please don't dictate to others what they should enjoy or find acceptable.

So you are agreeing that large blister are not a good thing, but are not a problem?

A good dough, when handles properly, cooked properly, etc will produce a great pizza.

A bad dough, even handled properly will be a strugle to cook properly and will surely NOT produce a great pizza.

Now, what I am saying, or badly trying to say, is that the large, diffuse blisters, are an INDICATION of one or VARIOUS defect in the dough, which surely will manifestate in the EATING experience