Class

A few years ago, I made an offhand comment in a thread that there were a lot of middle class posters about. I didn't mean anything derogatory by the remark, but I do remember being roundly criticised and informed that there was 'no such thing as class' anymore.

I'm curious as to whether that's the general view a few years on? At the time it seemed to me that while the classes were getting fuzzier, they still existed and today it seems to me that while the lines have moved a bit, the class system is on the rise again.

So - what's the general view? Are we re-drawing class lines in bolder ink lately, or do you think I'm deluded?

Well, if it goes 12 pages, I will reconsider the thought in light of the arguments. I'm not convinced it will though. You're lucky, Salaman - it's the sort of thing that should be a non-issue in a healthy system, I reckon.

I am middle class, there's no way I could escape it.
My wife makes reference to it at times e.g. going to France on a Eurocamp holiday, or joining the National Trust are both 'middle class' things to do, compared to her more working class upbringing.
Yet, I look at myself and think I am not so middle class as I am state school educated and went to an 'ex-Poly' university.

Heh, my wife says the same but more to convince me that I'm middle class. She's right of course, but as nick says, it's something I try to deny. For no real reason than I am the son of a plumber and a home help, so seemed about right that I was working class.

Looking back, one of the reasons I tried to hide my middle classishness was that during the 80's I lived in a yorkshire village with a *lot* of miners in it.

When they were striking they would get really shitty about any displays of wealth or whatever (my dad was a farmer with a farm shop or a 'butchers' as it was called in the days of yore) and come in trying to blag food.

So you always had to make out you were doing worse than you were or the peasants would revolt.

I think quite a lot of us (myself included) got bumped up from working class to middle class with the decline of blue-collar jobs and the increase in the white collar office work. I suspect those of us on this border are in quite a tenuous position though, one bad patch away from disaster.

I think the main issue I have with the term is to question its worth. Even if you could accurately define the boundaries between the classes, what would be the value of that? Of than to discriminate in some form?

Class and race are similar topics in some ways ("some", please note the word "some", the important word is here "some").

There is such a thing as middle-class, but it's just a marketing demographic these days. It's not a sociopolitical thing. Hardly anyone who counts themselves as middle-class actually own the means of their own production (to take a Marxist view of it) and ironically those that do tend to work in traditionally "working class" industries (self-employed builders, plumbers, etc).

So yeah, middle class describes the kind of holidays you go on and the food that eat, and the shops that you visit, but it's not more of a thing than "yuppies" "dinkys" or bored housewives who read 50 Shades. It's a concept for selling stuff. Stuff including votes, and beliefs.

We *are* a divided nation, in terms of wealth inequality. But that's is more complicated and a lot more serious than if you shop in Waitrose or not.

MetalDog wrote:
I think quite a lot of us (myself included) got bumped up from working class to middle class with the decline of blue-collar jobs and the increase in the white collar office work. I suspect those of us on this border are in quite a tenuous position though, one bad patch away from disaster.

I think thats pretty spot on. I probably earn a similar amount to a good builder or a plumber but they would likely count themselves as working class because its hard graft.

Chopsen wrote:
There is such a thing as middle-class, but it's just a marketing demographic these days. It's not a sociopolitical thing. Hardly anyone who counts themselves as middle-class actually own the means of their own production (to take a Marxist view of it) and ironically those that do tend to work in traditionally "working class" industries (self-employed builders, plumbers, etc).

So yeah, middle class describes the kind of holidays you go on and the food that eat, and the shops that you visit, but it's not more of a thing than "yuppies" "dinkys" or bored housewives who read 50 Shades. It's a concept for selling stuff. Stuff including votes, and beliefs.

We *are* a divided nation, in terms of wealth inequality. But that's is more complicated and a lot more serious than if you shop in Waitrose or not.

I think while we have an 'underclass' it's a system that we should be actively scrutinising, rather than ignoring. Countless studies show that countries with a big divide between the rich and poor are unhappy countries and our divide is getting bigger, isn't it?