456 or P7 ?

I think the simple answer to the high price of the P7 is that Orange really want to sell bikes not frames. However there is demand to buy a frame only so they sell them a a premuim. If they were banging them out cheap then they would be loosing out on component choices. They also sell Orange stuff in shops who take roughly 1/3 of what you pay

As for Cotic it harder to say. I suspect volumes are small so costs of trips and CN testing are shared by less company. I also think that an 853 badge doesn't denote a frame quality, its a tube quality. Cotic may feel that they are charging you for things like a wider range of colours consistent alignment/quality. Cotic also run a full demo programme. I don't think that Cotic prices are outrages

Als,o having just seen that frames are only 5% of ON-Ones business I suspect that they are a lost leader, mainly serving as a marketing tool to direct traffic to on online omponent store. That isn't meant to be cynical. Its a compay set up to make money its upto them how they do it

Wonder how much the carbon 456 will be? Given the road frames are £399, around £450-500 maybe? Might be an interesting choice. I've got a steel 456 frame and gears hung on the wall at the moment (due to a slot drop out getting built up last year) - brilliant ride, it actually replaced a late 90s P7, but that was a different bike really. There's no way I'm getting shot 'cos it will be built up again - unless that carbon 456 drills a hole in my wallet.

Young Dave Riley wrote, "I've got a P7 and I'm very happy with it,but how do Orange and Cotic justify the price of Taiwanese,steel hard tail frames??"

Cotic, well, you're getting an 853 frame which pushes the cost up a lot, first class finish, and a very well made frame, so there's some justification. It's more expensive than an Altitude 853 but then again, the Altitude's finish isn't as good, and has a slightly simpler and so easier to make design. (and IMO, doesn't ride as well but that's personal taste) So, sure, they're expensive but it's not just a daft price.