OTA for Hopper?

Neither sat provides my actual locals. I get address based locals for my DMA out of Syracuse (50 miles away). Utica (about 15 miles away) actually covers my area. I record alot off both ABC & NBC affiliates there because they do a lot of locally produced programming, some of which I've worked on. So, I easily can tie up two OTA tuners at any given time.

If satcos were allowed to carry both, like Time Warner currently does then it wouldn't be an issue and I'd only use OTA for those stations that neither satco carry.

I'll admit my circumstances are out of the norm.

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I now see your dilemma. But this begs the question as to why you don't simply receive the Utica Locals via SAT if that's the actual DMA where you reside. Is the Utica market not provided by Dish? Or, is this simply a database error? If you're 15 miles away from the local Utica network affiliates, I don't see how stations 50 miles away should even be made available to you. I thought the FCC created (dumb) rules to prevent such egregious behavior.

1 - as we see, dish choose to ditch any other manufacturer of USB OTA tuner; I'm pretty sure a few of these lined up for authorization their USB sticks; it should be matter of certification of HW and fulfill SW Linux API;
2 - should not; don't expect antenna setup from dish tech - do it yourself.

I now see your dilemma. But this begs the question as to why you don't simply receive the Utica Locals via SAT if that's the actual DMA where you reside. Is the Utica market not provided by Dish? Or, is this simply a database error? If you're 15 miles away from the local Utica network affiliates, I don't see how stations 50 miles away should even be made available to you. I thought the FCC created (dumb) rules to prevent such egregious behavior.

Frankly, I like the idea of having the choice of network affiliates.

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Nope, as I stated it is by address. I fall under the Syracuse DMA. I want the Syracuse DMA as all affiliates are HD. However, they don't cover our local news unless its a major event. So, if I switch to a sat provider then a solid OTA solution is a must. PTAT would cover the big four out of Syr, but I'd need a dual OTA for the other off schedule stuff I want from Utica.

If satcos were allowed to carry both, like Time Warner currently does then it wouldn't be an issue and I'd only use OTA for those stations that neither satco carry.

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According to the FCC, satellite companies are permitted to transmit distant stations if they are on the "significantly viewed" list. You can search for the list and see if those stations are in your area. If they are, then the fault lies with Dish (which typically does not provide distant signals regardless of significantly viewed status.)

Note that providing distant signals would require Dish to insert those black messages about programming rights when a distant station airs something that a local one has exclusive rights to, just like cable does, and the difficulty in coordinating those on a nationwide basis is probably the reason Dish doesn't bother.

According to the FCC, satellite companies are permitted to transmit distant stations if they are on the "significantly viewed" list. You can search for the list and see if those stations are in your area. If they are, then the fault lies with Dish (which typically does not provide distant signals regardless of significantly viewed status.)

Note that providing distant signals would require Dish to insert those black messages about programming rights when a distant station airs something that a local one has exclusive rights to, just like cable does, and the difficulty in coordinating those on a nationwide basis is probably the reason Dish doesn't bother.

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I called both providers out on this and was told that locals are only provided based on address. Now, I could "move" and provide a billing address, but I'd much rather use an antenna ang get everything.

Time Warner never blacks anything out or runs crawls. In fact, they had a carriage dispute with the Utica NBC affiliate where the station was removed from the Utica line up and we never lost it.

According to the FCC, satellite companies are permitted to transmit distant stations if they are on the "significantly viewed" list. You can search for the list and see if those stations are in your area. If they are, then the fault lies with Dish (which typically does not provide distant signals regardless of significantly viewed status.)

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Don't confuse Significantly Viewed with Distants. Significantly Viewed channels are defined by people receiving them over the air ... not the ability to receive the channels but actual statistical viewership over the air in a defined community. Distants do not need to be received over the air by anyone in the market that receives a distant signal.

Distants can be blocked from carriage easily ... as long as there is a major network station in the DMA satellite cannot import a distant of the same network. And Distants from an earlier time zone are no longer allowed.

The biggest difference between cable and satellite on Significantly Viewed channels is the requirement to carry. If a station obtains Significantly Viewed status for a community the cable system MUST offer carriage. Perhaps the cable system would want to offer carriage anyways, but SV was created to allow stations to force their way onto cable systems where the station was viewed over the air (a level of actual recorded viewership). There is no must carry SV for satellite.

I wish the laws were better in this area ... to allow carriage of any signal that can be received over the air regardless of the DMA or actual viewership. But the laws we have are the ones that need to be followed. Even if they are unfair.

When I called to upgrade to the Genie they said the OTA tuner was not supported only on the older HR2x models.
There is also a long thread on this site with several also saying it is not supported.
Then there was one guy saying it is supported on the Genie HR34, so I am not sure what to think.
One thing is for sure the new OTA USB will be supported by Dish, you will just need to put up your own rabbit ears or ant. The online docs say it is supported.

I gave up on waiting on OTA and got the Hopper anyway, my DirecTV Hard Drives keep going out (there very old HR20s and HR21s). So old they do not even want the HR20s back that are on lease.

Well, if its a single tuner, then I'll go with the Genie. I get local per DMA, but not local to me. I need OTA for my two local news outlets. I absolutely love the Hopper and its GUI, plus Auto Hop. Then even have more HD channels I want. I was hoping to see an OTA module with dual tuners and streaming to Joeys.

Can't believe that anyone is surprised that it's only 1 tuner. I thought that was pretty apparent for a while now.

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I'm unfamiliar with why this is apparent. Enlighten me.

The MT2 provides two streams to a Duo DVR so it doesn't seem unreasonable that the Hopper would get a similar or better setup; especially given the recent upswing in the number of local channels that DISH doesn't carry.

I wish the laws were better in this area ... to allow carriage of any signal that can be received over the air regardless of the DMA or actual viewership. But the laws we have are the ones that need to be followed. Even if they are unfair.

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Copyright law sucks. It just does. Only not having it would be worse.

The "any signal that can be received over the air" issue would be very, very difficult to enact. I had a 70' tower on my previous property, with a 18dBi gain antenna and 28dB preamplifier on it. I was able to receive stations from a neighboring state that the engineers there said were impossible to receive - they did terrain analysis and said I had no chance. Yet there they were. But other channels on the same broadcasting tower didn't come in, or very rarely came in. And some days, the good signals wouldn't come in at all, even though they were there 80% of the time. Now, I knew people who lived further down the street (and down in topography) that would have required a 100'+ tower to get the same results. Should they get the same channels as I did? There was one day when I received an analog station from 1000 miles away (lo-VHF) clear as a bell. I've received digital stations from over 250 miles away under the right conditions. My results are not exceptional. Search on "Dxing" for some truly amazing results.

So in short, I don't think we could come up with a workable standard (FCC coverage contours are not accurate enough, in my book) for what stations they should be able to deliver vs. not based on reception OTA.

What I think would be a much more workable standard would be to allow customers to select a DMA from their general area. Since I was 12 miles away from my desired DMA (75 miles away from the actual transmitters) it could have been made a choice. We could say, "Choose 1 DMA from either your address-based DMA or a neighboring one." Then, if you're on the edge of one, there isn't this virtual cliff to fall off of.

The "any signal that can be received over the air" issue would be very, very difficult to enact.

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I was thinking of the standards set by the FCC, which are based on the receiving antenna being at 30ft. Modern computers and terrain databases allow for a lot more detail in estimating reception. Some smoothing of the contours should be expected.

Remember, these are permissive contours. Being in would allow one to receive the signal (beyond any DMA line). And while a line will always have an in side and an out side I would probably be generous enough that people would more likely be on the in side and not want the station (and hopefully have another option from a different direction) before they would be on the out side of the contour and miss a station they wanted.

Then again, I live in an area with decent real coverage as well as predicted coverage. I think it is silly that people who live closer to the next market's towers and can even get indoor coverage can't get their station via satellite because of some arbitrary market line. Especially in situations where a cable system must offer carriage to a station that satellite is forbidden to carry. Unequal laws.

I agree.
I live in the Omaha DMA area and get those stations via the Dish Sat. I am 20 miles away form the Lincoln DMA Boarder and I get ABC, PBS, CBS, and soon Fox from that DMA via OTA.
I am also 20 miles from Iowa and I get there PBS station based in Des monies.

I cant wait to get the OTA USB tuner for the Hopper so I can get all TV Markets.

I am set to have the Hopper/Joey installed tomorrow(11/7). I was able to order the OTA module. It is supposed to be on the truck. We'll see....

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My fellow Kentuckian, please report back tomorrow with your experience. If you do indeed get the OTA module I'm going to have to see if I have RG6 to the locations I need it (I've looked numerous times and still can't tell which if it's RG6 or RG59 guess I'll need to cut the end off one and strip it down to see) and if I do I'll be ordering us an early Christmas present of two Hoppers w/ OTA modules!

My fellow Kentuckian, please report back tomorrow with your experience. If you do indeed get the OTA module I'm going to have to see if I have RG6 to the locations I need it (I've looked numerous times and still can't tell which if it's RG6 or RG59 guess I'll need to cut the end off one and strip it down to see) and if I do I'll be ordering us an early Christmas present of two Hoppers w/ OTA modules!

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You shouldn't have to go that far. Just look at the size of the wire coming out of the connecter. RG59 is quite thin and RG6 is much thicker. That has been my experience anyway. Go to hardware store that sells both and compare so that you know what you are looking for.

It will be a bit harder to know if what you have will actually handle the necessary bandwidth. Tool to do this is cost prohibitive.

This happened to an other guy in an other post on the other site.
What happens is the CSR does not know that the OTA module (key word module) does not work on the Hopper. So you get a cartridge to plug into the 722. The Hopper does not have a slot.
What you need is the OTA USB tuner, not the module. The USB is small square and black. The module is silver and looks like a cartridge you plug into something.
Just be on the look out so you dont get charged for something you cant use.

Calvin386 said:

I am set to have the Hopper/Joey installed tomorrow(11/7). I was able to order the OTA module. It is supposed to be on the truck. We'll see....

I am also scheduled for a Hopper installation tomorrow, 11/7 and just called Dish to order the USB tuner. First I was told it would automatically come with the Hopper. I knew this was incorrect. I tried to explain to the CSR what it was and what it did. He said can't you just plug your antennae into your TV? He finally located the OTA tuner and said they have not shipped yet and didn't know when they would. He put notes in my file so wouldn't have to explain the entire story again. He had no ETA.