2017-09-07T08:50:29ZFluxBBhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=767Yeah, you got a point. Maybe best not to obsolete the drafted riflemen. The price is now 25 shields but if not obsoleted, we could go with 30 which would make it equal to other cheap units without offensive capabilities. Just to prevent training units.]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=622017-09-07T08:50:29Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6885#p6885Gh, sorry, lapsus cerebri. Drafted riflemen are *third* cheap unit in a row, correct? So, why obsolete them at all? This way you are obsoleting a cheap emergency unit with a fully functional one.]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=2972017-09-07T08:38:43Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6884#p6884They could, but the current tech tree doesn't force you to get partisans. Now it's easy to just skip the partisan tech if that's what you want. It's also logical that if standard rifles are obsoleted by marines, the drafted ones should also be obsoleted by comparable units.

Another reason is that the partisans are actually quite nice units when compared to marines. They ignore ZOC and all that. It's not the biggest reason really, just one of the small ones.

However, if it's more reasonable that partisans should obsolete drafted riflemen, we can make it so.

It's really a shame adding new tilesets is not that easy because some people would not upgrade the tilesets from their clients anyway. That would allow us to really add very different militia units. Maybe we will experiment with that one day. For that we would need extremely good instructions for the upgrade and also plan the fall back graphics so that they are not too confusing. With stuff for the cities it's easy to use just a picture of a building (university) for many different types of improvements.

]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=622017-09-07T08:23:36Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6883#p6883Why wouldn't Drafted Riflemen be obsoleted with Partisans?]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=2972017-09-06T20:43:37Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6882#p6882Right... Forgot that if drafted riflemen are also obsoleted with marines (always green anyway), the next cheap unit you can build is the partisan.]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=622017-09-06T20:35:26Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6881#p6881There are no sprites available for different types of units. With downloadable tilesets it would get complicated very soon. Not everyone would download and install those. The graphics would work with fallback graphics but they would look very different to what someone else would be using. By using very similar units like drafted musks, there is not that much harm for mistaking them to regular units.

And yeah, the idea really is that when drafting you are burning the city population to protect it from the enemy. Currently the partisans could also be added back to the population of the city size is less than 8. That could be also done to other units.

It's also possible that the drafted riflemen would not be obsoleted with marines.

Its probably not possible to make a cheap unit and have no serious penalty for bulding something like that. Not if we don't want people filling the cities with those like they are nowdays filling them with warriors. The idea is that in later game the cheapest regular military unit is like 40-50 shields. If the 25 shield unit would be without upkeep and without population cost, it would be the default unit. Not only for those who want to use it as the last resort.

Maybe one alternative could be that those units would not be able to attack and would not keep any citizens content. You could only defend with them.

]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=622017-09-05T21:12:34Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6874#p6874Well, maybe that's the problem of too high veteran levels. I would say that +50% on first kill, +25% on the second etc. is overpowered. And, basically, when analysing if a game setting is a bit off regarding multiplayer gameplay and realism, my initial test is: was it inherited from Sid Meier's Civilization 1? If the answer is "yes", that is a marker to start doubting. Think about that. Because Civ1 was a brilliant single-player game designed to create programmed obstacles for the player to gain a personal sense of achievement when overcoming them. However, a multiplayer has a COMPLETELY different philosophy. For example, look at Wonders. A perfect concept for a single player game. But when it got to multiplayer, they simply had to be reformed into Small Wonders.

But that's a different topic

Anyway, I have a problem with military units costing population, especially two population because then it is a slaughter. But, again, maybe it's just me It all depends how you base your concepts. I'd give lower veteran levels and weaker Drafted units, maybe with them requiring no upkeep. But a few of those settings need to be combined so it's all about the whole concept, not picking this or that setting.

And I'd suggest different names: Minutemen or Regulars and Conscripts Recruits or Guardsmen. And why obsolete with Marines? This makes it possible to build a shitload and then upgrade, and also removes the possibility to build cheaper units after that.

]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=2972017-09-05T20:54:24Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6873#p6873Yeah, I understand what you mean. The problem is that we don't want the players to always use these cheap units for defending the cities. Too cheap units would also bring back the problem with unit training. In some games people have been doing with migrants. With units costing population it's possble to build really fast some troops but only in really deperate situations. Too weak militia units would also be killed too easily.]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=622017-09-05T17:16:17Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6871#p6871The units:

]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=622017-09-05T17:06:05Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6870#p6870Whar I had in mind was more of a cannon fodder unit, cheap and not a great loss to lose. Population is a considerable loss. So, in the end, these partisans seem like a pretty expensive thing: 40 shields AND 1 population. To me it seems like too much. But, again, that's only my opinion. Others should share their view, too, I have feeling that I'm the only one babbling here ]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=2972017-09-05T17:05:11Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6869#p6869This is how the new partisans look like on LT40.

They are nice units but building them costs population. They now cost 1 pop but I was thinking that the cost might be even 2.

Perhaps we could do something similar with musketeers? Actually, how about "drafted musketeers"? This unit would be always green and it would also cost at least 2 population? Maybe it could cost even 3? The actual cost on shields would be lower. Perhaps something like 20?

If added, this would be included only to LT40 ruleset since it's more experimental. LT39 will be more traditional LT game.

]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=622017-09-05T16:29:34Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6868#p6868What I am generally missing in mid- and late-game are cheap unprofessional defensive units that can be raised /built quickly in case of emergency, to stop a sudden breakthrough and slow down an invading force. In late game this can be partisans that are not really used that much, but could be slightly cheapened and weakened to serve the purpose, but in mid-game I'm missing something like Militia or Minutemen. Early game has Warriors that are just fine, but they disappear with the appearance of Musketeers. I was toying with tilesets and basically took the Musketeers image and made it black&white, but I couldn't get it working.]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=2972017-09-05T15:29:37Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6867#p6867Is the Amplio and trident grafic for the steamer enough? (http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=84630)

If I ask for something similar for Zeppelins, is that enough? Worste case, could we simply download a unit and add it manually?

]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=5172017-09-05T14:13:26Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6866#p6866The graphics used should work on a vanilla client without a need to download anything extra.]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=622017-09-05T07:14:38Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6862#p6862I use Trident... ]]>http://forum.longturn.org/profile.php?id=2972017-09-04T22:07:32Zhttp://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6859#p6859