And you enjoy it why? Yes, flying offers efficiency. But what else? You can look down on the world from a

I explained that bountifully before in this very thread, but again:

- Exploring. Finding places where you can not go by foot. There are sooo many beautiful places that my friends and I have found over the years. Did you know that there's this lovely area north east of Moonglade that's just perfect for RP druid meetings?

- Enjoying the flying itself. Flying is one of these ultimate dreams of mankind. When you ask a given number of people what superpower they'd choose if they could have any, usually a majority of them will say "flying". (I personally wouldn't, I think there are far more useful super powers ) Just sitting on your flying mount and soaring above, choosing where to fly independently at any given second, seeing places from above that you've only known from below, in a whole new perspective ... it's magnificent.

Maybe this will explain it better than I can

Btw, I agree with you that exploring the world by foot is beautiful as well. Which is why everyone should do it, at the start of the expansion, while leveling. Get to know the continent by foot, and then rise above it and see "a whole new world", see all the places you knew before from a different perspective. Why limit yourself to only one of the two? Or more importantly, why would you want to limit other players to only one of the two?

Yeah... I actually said "for you". How can I be blind when I acknowledged that? >_>

Point is, however you're immersed, you should have to ruin how others are immersed. Blizzard should make both paths attractive.

I'm not really ruining anything. I'm just enjoying what's potentially, again, in my opinion, a very good decision from a gameplay point of view. Might I politely enquire as to how you'd make both paths attractive?

If they took out flying for an entire expansion that alone wouldn't make me quit. I would most definitely quit with that change on top of ALL the other changes that are coming with WoD. With the item squish, the stat changes, the healing changes etc it's a lot to handle all at once. We read forums and know what's going on, but the average player...they're going to be blindsided by these changes. I worry that blizzard is trying to change too much too fast and the effect it will have on the game.

If you ever wonder how dumb people really are then consider this: even in the golden age of smart heals dumb people still find ways to die.

Near the end of the interview they hint at no flying throughout the entire xpac.

At about 5:50 he states, "At ship" for flying mounts. He doesn't say that we won't have flying at all, just when the expansion ships. Blizzard has already confirmed that we will get flying in 6.1 through some sort of event/quest or whatever.

"When past and present collide, the fate of all worlds hangs in the balance." -The Prophet Velen

No its not, 'being on a ground mount' has never been an incentive to go do things out in the world. If you are going to blame flying mounts, actually back it up with some reasoning.

I didn't say it was. You're pretty bad at logic. No offence.

I wrote that the incentives to play the game for the experience, and not for the goals, aren't really there any more. Flying mounts have removed some of these incentives. But that isn't to say that ground mounts were an incentive.

More specifically, I mean this: flying mounts encourage efficient gameplay at the cost of immersion - they encourage the player to focus more on the goal, and less on the process of getting to that goal. By this mechanism, an incentive to play the game for the experience - the process - is diminished.

1) And I'm sure you never fly now. Wait, you do? Then you're a fucking hypocrite. You can ride, hell you can WALK almost everywhere in WoW *today*. Unless you do, you're just mouthing off here.

I often do decide to do that. I much prefer land mounts. The models have always appealed to me more than most of the flying mounts. I'm not sure what it is, but the animations on land mounts always seem more... interesting. Wolf, Tiger, even the older Horse running animation.

It's almost impossible to get to some zones in Pandaria on land mounts alone (or rather it'll take another 25-30 minutes round trip because of the lack of multiple entrances to some zones), but I'll still sometimes opt to do that instead, especially considering Kun'lai looks so damn awesome as you head into the west of the zone.

I'd love to see flying mounts being more limited. On balance, I'd also need to see less bullshit like what happened in phase 1 of Isle of Thunder, where there was almost no way past mobs. Give people the option of a safe route if you're limiting them to land mounts but don't make it overly safe, just make sure that mobs don't patrol over predefined paths without a good reason. Look at WPL and EPL for example. Those zones haven't changed much in terms of layout since Vanilla. There was always a sense of danger, especially as you got into Plaguewood, but you had a relatively clear route through there if you kept moving.

You know, even since Cata, I've sometimes decided to run the entire length of EK on a land mount just for the hell of it. If I'm not in a rush and I'd just rather see the world, then I'll take this choice instead. By comparison it's more difficult to run the entire length of Kalimdor on a land mount due to Hyjal but it's by no means impossible.

I'll be honest - the pre-cata world was much friendlier for land mounts in some areas (for obvious reasons). It was even more common for me to opt to run across the continent instead of taking an FP. Now, Darkshore is more difficult to navigate, Durotar is less land mount friendly due to the flooding, and Razorfen changes and the lift being destroyed is fucking infuriating. The fact all of 1KN is flooded makes me pretty disappointed as that used to be one of those areas where I could (and would inevitably) choose to go to Tanaris or to Feralas. The salt flats were an area that I visually disliked, but I knew I was heading to somewhere I wanted to be when I got there.

When I go to Northrend, I choose land mounts almost exclusively. The only time that changes is if I'm flying over to the Nexus or to Wintergrasp for any reason. Northrend is my absolute favourite continent in the game by far. I'm a fan of snowy zones, and the music of Northrend just fits so perfectly (I've actually got the Wintergrasp music in one of my playlists). I like to experience Northrend from the ground, even though there's nothing left for me there, sometimes it's just nice to go there and relax.

When I go to Outlands, well, it's rare for me to go to Outlands, but it's even rarer for me to use a land mount there. It's just not something that I'm bothered about as I didn't particularly like Outlands as an area (even if I did like the group-chain quests there).

Flying is always more efficient and there's just no incentive not to. The only way to make it work is to enforce it. Eventually people would accept it.

Btw, I agree with you that exploring the world by foot is beautiful as well. Which is why everyone should do it, at the start of the expansion, while leveling. Get to know the continent by foot, and then rise above it and see "a whole new world", see all the places you knew before from a different perspective. Why limit yourself to only one of the two? Or more importantly, why would you want to limit other players to only one of the two?

It's not just about the initial "exploring the world for the first time". It's about the "living world". The sense of constant danger, exacerbated greatly by PvP servers, obviously. The ability for Blizzard to greatly increase compelling world situations/scenarios without players just flying happily past any time they sense danger, or skipping straight to the end.

I'm not really ruining anything. I'm just enjoying what's potentially, again, in my opinion, a very good decision from a gameplay point of view. Might I politely enquire as to how you'd make both paths attractive?

If people get their enjoyment from it, and prefer it, how does removing it not ruin it for them?

It's not my job to come up with things Blizzard should already have done. It's not difficult to make the speeds the same or introduce buffs or something for traveling a certain way along a certain terrain/path/course/whatever. Hell, just increase the speed of ground mounts...

Some of us gather resources to fuel multiple in-guild raid groups. The lack of access to the air means that herbing and mining to the degree required for those raids (not counting outside activities like WoD CMs) becomes an absolute nightmare. I remain hopeful that their supposed crafting overhaul and whatever the Garrisons provide will make this not be as horrible as it looks to be at first glance.

Personally I won't be spending an eternity on gathering professions in the name of immersion. And if I feel like I'm spending too much time running around for materials I'll find something more fun to do with my time.

/been here since vanilla, doesn't miss the days of no flight.

Everyone else will have the same situation farming as you will. I farmed 100% of my mats in MoP without flying because my farmers were sub 90. There is no issue farming without flying. Also they can easily reduce the mats needed for things in WoD if it's going to be that hard to farm. So once again farming is a non issue.

It really isn't worth repeating, because it's overstated bullshit, and nothing more. What gamer would choose a less efficient choice? What you suggest goes against the core purpose of the game. Might as well not play it.

Funny other people's feelings on this are BULLSHIT. but yours are not? Well I call bullshit. Your move.

This would only work if FP's take a direct route to your destination and not take a scenic route hitting every other zone THEN hitting your destination.

I get that people want to explore and stuff like that, but exploring gets old on the second or third character. I can get behind leaving flying out until the first patch but no flying at all? Stupid and pointless.

- Exploring. Finding places where you can not go by foot. There are sooo many beautiful places that my friends and I have found over the years. Did you know that there's this lovely area north east of Moonglade that's just perfect for RP druid meetings?

- Enjoying the flying itself. Flying is one of these ultimate dreams of mankind. When you ask a given number of people what superpower they'd choose if they could have any, usually a majority of them will say "flying". (I personally wouldn't, I think there are far more useful super powers ) Just sitting on your flying mount and soaring above, choosing where to fly independently at any given second, seeing places from above that you've only known from below, in a whole new perspective ... it's magnificent.

Maybe this will explain it better than I can

Btw, I agree with you that exploring the world by foot is beautiful as well. Which is why everyone should do it, at the start of the expansion, while leveling. Get to know the continent by foot, and then rise above it and see "a whole new world", see all the places you knew before from a different perspective. Why limit yourself to only one of the two? Or more importantly, why would you want to limit other players to only one of the two?

I agree that flying does lend itself to exploration, and it really is different up above. But two points I want to make:

- Seeing the world from above can occur via flightpaths. If flying is restricted, then flightpaths suddenly become interesting (the first couple times only, of course, because then the exploration is done). Don't get me wrong - I don't think flightpaths are anywhere close to as interesting as free flying in terms of exploration, but we also have to consider the cost:

- Free flying shrinks the world. And this is a big cost in a game that depends on providing content in the form of an explorable world. By allowing flying, you cheapen the content. There are other costs involved with flying, but I'm just talking about the comparison to flightpaths.

Out of curiosity (it's your business when you unsub and why, after all) why would you have been subbed since BC if you don't like WoW? Because that's what you're getting - more WoW. More raids, more dungeons, more achievements, more pets, more mounts, more quests, more lands to explore, more creatures/players to kill, more characters to meet. That's what WoW is. Why would you possibly suddenly stop liking those things NOW, just because it's a new expansion?

That's not what happened...it's been a slow process of dissatisfaction w/the direction of the game since Cata. What has kept me in the game has been the raid team that I've been a part of since I started playing. This is the first expansion where I am excited about almost nothing based on the WoD footage we've seen so far. I was beyond unbelievably excited for Cata and especially MoP, since I've been wanting Pandaria/pandaren in game since forever.

Wow just isn't innovating enough. Going back in time and taking things away from players isn't innovation. I was really surprised at how much I enjoyed playing SWTOR and especially Rift, which I still play for time to time for the pvp which I enjoy infinitely better than in WoW. When you play other games you really start to see what other games do well and some of their stuff is really very good. I've been also playing ES:O beta and got into a Wildstar beta event and enjoyed both games. Also other single player games coming out now...

There are a few things WoW offers that differentiates it from other MMOs on the market currently. One is the unique starting zones for each race. The other is flying. Arguably a third thing would be competitive PvE but really other MMOs have that too. Garrisons are not innovative if you see how other games handle their player housing.

Flying is like the straw that broke the camel's back, I love exploring Azeroth through flight. I'd love for WoW to incorporate elements from other games like dynamic questing, alternative progression paths at endcap, open world dynamic pvp/bounty systems with sandbox elements etc like Age of Wushu. I'd also like to see world bosses and dynamic zone events in vanilla zones, and a mentor system like in Rift. I don't really see that happening here anytime soon, so why not go play games that offer content that I can get excited about?

*Shrug* willing to see what will happen in beta but right now I'm leaning towards sitting this xpac out. I've been playing this game a long time so it might be time for a break anyway.

Please, angry little people, think about the whole picture before you get your knickers in a twist.

Please, angry little person, don't be derisive to others, it doesn't make your argument any more convincing.

Originally Posted by Constraint

Compelling argument. It's obviously because a few loud, angry people whinged to Blizzard that they're considering it. Ever stopped to think for more than a second that it might actually be WORTHWHILE to have people on the ground for longer? Sure, you won't get your "OMG BITCHES I CAN FLY, SHIT" moment when you ding 100, but think about all the things that can make up for it. Oh, and it's not just so you can take longer to get around, just as a tip.

Which benefits would I gain from not being able to fly in Draenor, at all, that I wouldn't gain from no flying till 100? Which benefits would I gain that would make up the huge drawbacks of no flying?