Links to Some Other Threads You Should Also Participate In / Will Come in Handy

Digital Painting in PS
Bumskee's thread about some great basics and not so basics on painting digitally.
Don't worry it's pertinent to photoshop and painter, and the rest really.

New Artists Seeking Help Come Here!
Looks to have some great potential, just popped up.
This is Infinitum's baby, emphasis seems to be on drawing, lighting/shading etc.
Not entirely sure of it's complete scope, however you will probably see me in there brushing up some skills

*[Disclaimer]* I feel like such a pompous ass to post something this "ambitious" and where it makes me seem like I "know" what I'm talking about, it's taken some balls to actually post it so I hope it does well. Don't think me altruistic however, a major motivation is to learn from you guys (selfish greed by any other name!). So, if it sinks don't rub it in .Feedback is vital here ! Speak your mind !

The Idea:
I'm a big fan of the The New Media Coloring Book (Thanks Sammy!); I've used it for almost two years now as quick dirty practice, not just of color but of technique, speed, value, everything overall really. I really can't tell you how vital it has been. I came up with this idea with the help of some other members not to be a replacement for the Coloring Book but as an addendum. (Perhaps like a foundation class to help you on the fun stuff? )

So. this thread is here to educate ourselves, it will go something like this: Edited: Updated Guidelines
A: The projects will be set-up with a goal in mind, specific or loose depending on the general idea and lesson in mind.
B: Do the project and create a dialogue of what you did and why. (Try and think about this while you do the project, this is important; we will be better able to learn from each other as well as catch each other's mistakes.)
C: The Dialogue will be analysed by your peers; (Right or wrong, the idea is to have a reason why and explain it. I think this will be key )
D: And of course at the same time peer critiques will be offered. (Pretty simple no?)
E: You shouldn't have to spend a large amount of time on this however spend as much time as you need, give it your best.
F. All Projects/Exercises are of course optional, have no order, and are always open to participation. Start wherever and whenever you want!
G. People who are too embarassed to post their results will be shot on sight, you're here to learn not to show off.Feel free to make suggestions!- - - - - - - - - - - - -Now this in mind, even though I'm the so called "Creator" of this thread:
I am not a teacher, and I am not qualified to be the teacher. We will all be the "teachers" and the students. I would however like to be the "Supervisor" until the thread gets its roots. I'm going to start it off with some really simple exercises and would like to see others contribute exercises after it gets off the ground. For now if you would like to contribute an exercise, could you run the exercise by me with a PM before you post it?

I think we'd all love if it some of you Professionals could stop by as well, tell us what we've been doing right and wrong.- - - - - - - - - - - - -I strongly recommend you read the discussions and analyses within others posts that are between exercises. I see a lot of the same advice being repeated. Read through this for your sake; I mean don't you want to learn faster?

This being said, sometimes advice or critiques will be given that may be incorrect, or misconceptions; I most likely am not innocent of this either. If you spot mistakes be sure and correct them! Don't confuse these with opinions however, which are never wrong only different.- - - - - - - - - - - - -Some Basics and Definitions:
These are just so we are all on the same page here, I think a unified vocabulary will help with clearer critiques and dialogue. Besides that, these are things I didn't know at one time so perhaps they will be helpful to some?

Sorry for not being active here guys - I've been busy and uhh out of steam. I'm really impressed with the results you guys have posted, I wish there were more hours in the day so I could reply to everyone and that I didn't have bills to pay and ramen to eat, and that I had a moogle who could create money and yummy food.

*Think of a better name for this thread if you can... ugh this one is crap!*- - - - - - - - - - - - -I strongly recommend you read the discussions and analyses within others posts that are between exercises. I see a lot of the same advice being repeated. Read through this for your sake; I mean don't you want to learn faster?

This being said, sometimes advice or critiques will be given that may be incorrect, or misconceptions; I most likely am not innocent of this either. If you spot mistakes be sure and correct them! Don't confuse these with opinions however, which are never wrong only different.- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Project #1:
Value and Value with Color.
Something that somewhat recently didn't even have a grasp on is how important value is to color (I didn't understand what value was somewhat recently too...)
I've had some teachers that say value is the most important element in a sucessful picture. I can't say it will always ring true but it's certainly very important. - - - - - - - - - -So, a basic exercise to get things going in this thread:

First off lets look at the color wheels in the big name programs:Painter: Top to Bottom = High Value to Low Value, Left to Right = Low Intensity to High Intensity. The Hues are around in the circle.Photoshop:
EDIT: Right right, I'm a little dumb here. The diagonal line isn't intensity again... it's still just left to right. A bit confusing still but... yeah.Top to Bottom = High Value to Low Value, Left to Right = Low Intensity to High Intensity, Diagonally is Intensity again?! I really don't like this color "wheel", I think it is square for the other modes that Photoshop offers.- - - - - - - - - -
To reiterate the guidlines: Edited: Updated Guidlines
A: Do the project and create a dialogue of what you did and why. (Try and think about this while you do the project, this is important; we will be better able to learn from each other as well as catch each other's mistakes.)
B: The Dialogue will be analysed by your peers; (Right or wrong, the idea is to have a reason why and explain it. I think this will be key )
C: And of course at the same time peer critiques will be offered. (Pretty simple no?)
D: You shouldn't have to spend a large amount of time on this however spend as much time as you need, give it your best.
E. All Projects/Exercises are of course optional, have no order, and are always open to participation. Start wherever and whenever you want!
F. People who are too embarassed to post their results will be shot on sight, you're here to learn not to show off.

Ok, here is the template for this exercise:
In the first blank circle I want you to paint a sphere in grayscale, try and get a fairly full value range, don't worry about getting it perfect that's not the point. I used the selection tool and painted within that on a seperate layer, to get rid of the jaggies I increased just the spheres when I was done.

In the second blank circle I want you to pick a hue and paint a sphere as well, the key here is to try and get your colored sphere to be the same value as the grayscale sphere. If you need to you can take the color picker and see where what values you put where on the 1st sphere. Now with just value changes your sphere will look pretty flat so if you want to; Consider how the hue might shift as well as the intensity (I'd read Prometheus|ANJ's tutorial listed on the first post if you have any questions).

Edit: Oblio came up with an interesting idea; If you choose you might also try doing the colored sphere first and then the grayscale. Definetly give this a shot, before or after; it's pretty interesting.

Once done with both spheres I want you to save a copy as a Web ready JPEG then convert your original to grayscale so we can see how close you were with your values on the colored sphere and save a copy of that as a Web ready JPEG as well. Then post them here !

If you have any questions be sure to post them here so others with the same question can see the answer too!
I will post my results in a day or so to give you all a headstart without my evil influence. I think I will also post the next exercise.

I'm first?

My images are below. I made the reflective version but decided that it might be to obtrusive for this exercise, so decided to post a matte version as well.

I realized tat my off hand knowledge of value is not very good, so when I did the colored version I had to use the color picker in Photoshop as and aid to find a simmilar value for the hued version. This project definately helped me understand hue and value better, and how much I really need to work on studying value. All in all I think I was close - the core shadow on the hued version ended up being darker and the highlight not as specular.

Ditto, now do the exercise
@FrontlinePs.10: Not quite the style I expected but cool none the less. Thanks for participating I'm really glad you learned from it. Obviously you did a good job matching the values and I think you also did well varying the hue and intensity. I think you did better than me...

My Results:
The grayscale one is pretty straight forward on the color one I tried to go cooler using both hue and intensity (a dull yellow will look cool against an intense yellow) I did these too quickly I think because I don't illustrate this enough and even forgot to go a little warmer with my highlights. In general I find that it is best to have your middle tone the most intense and have both the highlights and shadows less intense. But this changes on many surfaces so mess around.
As you can see I went just a little too dark on the colored one but hey not too bad for eyeballing it right? This is how we improve...

I'll try and post the next project tommorow if I have time, hopefully this thread will start to catch on and we will have some cool stuff going on.

I think this thread is a fantastic idea and should be made sticky right away

Here is my contribution:

I've never tackled a value comparison between grayscale and color before. It was quite a challenge. I definitely assumed that I knew more about value than I actually did. The results you see in this post are a freak oddity that occured during the many trials of this project.

I ended up trying to find a base color for both gray and color that both looked about the same value then worked in the shadows and light from there. I never thought squinting my eyes could be so helpful. It really does help when judging value.

Value is something that i will constantly need to work on. This is a great activilty to practice it. Thank you for posting this idea.

Below are the two 'values' that I chose as base colors in PS. Like Idiot Apathy said in a previous post, PS's color picker is just not laid out well to represent value and color. Or perhaps it is and I just don't get it.

Thanks again for posting this thread Idiot Apathy. I hope more people will join in.

@romance :
Isn't it amazing how much we didn't used to know? Sometimes its like walking around reborn when I've learned some new things.
Squinting to see value is a pretty cool trick, I've heard of some artists painting how they see things while squinting first and then opening back up for the details they choose to include.
So far everyone has done better than me on choosing the correct values... I need to practice more hehe, make sure you don't use the palette to check too much though I mean it's like we'd never learn math if we always had calculators ya know?

*Still need a better thread name I say, any ideas?- - - - - - - - - - - - -I strongly recommend you read the discussions and analyses within others posts that are between exercises. I see a lot of the same advice being repeated. Read through this for your sake; I mean don't you want to learn faster?

This being said, sometimes advice or critiques will be given that may be incorrect, or misconceptions; I most likely am not innocent of this either. If you spot mistakes be sure and correct them! Don't confuse these with opinions however, which are never wrong only different.- - - - - - - - - - - - -Project #2:
Quick Light and Color Exercise.
I spat out some quick 2PP blocks to color for the next exercise. I think all too often we get caught up complicating things that are really pretty simple (but is the process of thinking of it simply a simple thing?) So, something really simple to collect our thoughts and compare with others:- - - - - - - - - -
To reiterate the guidelines: Edited: Updated Guidlines
A: Do the project and create a dialogue of what you did and why. (Try and think about this while you do the project, this is important; we will be better able to learn from each other as well as catch each other's mistakes.)
B: The Dialogue will be analysed by your peers; (Right or wrong, the idea is to have a reason why and explain it. I think this will be key )
C: And of course at the same time peer critiques will be offered. (Pretty simple no?)
D: You shouldn't have to spend a large amount of time on this however spend as much time as you need, give it your best.
E. All Projects/Exercises are of course optional, have no order, and are always open to participation. Start wherever and whenever you want!
F. People who are too embarassed to post their results will be shot on sight, you're here to learn not to show off.- - - - - - - - - -
So the idea is to create a simple lighting situation and focus on the colors on the blocks and their shadows. Try not to start with white everywhere!
I'd like to see at least 2 of the 3 blocks as different colors and at least one of the block's cast shadows to fall onto another block.
I'd recommend just doing this fairly simply with a gel layer (or multiply in PS) for your colors above the lines. (I know I know, the thick black lines look horrible coming through like that.) Feel free to go beyond that and have fun of course. I added a simple background on mine for instance. (it just felt better...)
Some things to think about: How colored light reflected off one block will effect another block, are they the same colors or are they completely different? Is the enviroment or ambient color going to effect the blocks and their shadows?

I think in this exercise the bulk of what people will learn will come through the self dialogue; both creating it and reading others, so be sure and give it your all.

Alright go get 'em ! And to anyone just lurking out there, do the exercise and post it even if your not proud of it! It's how you learn dummy. I'll give you guys a headstart and won't post mine for a day or two.

Again, what was once thought known, wasn't. Starting this project, I quickly realized how long it had been since I had to cast a shadow. Most things I draw are organic, so getting away with an inaccurate cast shadow is usually possible.

I ended up locating a light source that would cast decent shadows. Using lines as guides, I then tried to measure and calculate where the shadows would fall. Math in art? who'd a thunk' it, hyuk, hyuk! That was probably the most difficult part of the project.

After that, it was just a matter of filling in color, applying light, and putting the shadows in the previously measured spots. Then it was time for bounced light or 'radiosity', whatever you want to call it. I ended up just sampling the base color of the blocks and applying it to the surfaces facing opposite a highlighted surface.

I'm still not too sure about the intensity on the shadows on the blocks though, or whether or not an objects color is bounced off on it's shadow side.

I´d definetly like to join in on this.. but I dont have a wacom so I´d be practicing with mouse. I dont think I can get the insane quality and control you guys seem to be able to produce... Is there a specific skill level you want people to be at?

@romance: damn, put me to shame why don't ya. Very nice... now I feel bad for only spending a few minutes on mine. Do you still have the file with the light source and guidelines? I'd like to see it, something about it is bugging me and I can't quite place it. Could be perfect for all I know though.

@romance and everyone else: *Disclaimer*This is all just theory, not a scientific theory but the thoughts that are in my head and man is it a pain to pin them down into words. Only some of it based on what I've read and what I've been taught. So basically, take it with a grain of salt!.

As for the intensity on the block's shadows and the mixing of the blocks' colors:
It might be a little high but It makes for a nice picture.
I think intensity can be thought of as the amount of a pure spectrum color (realistically they mix like crazy) that is reflected in relation to the other pure spectrum colors (s.color). So greater equal amounts of s.colors increase value all the way to white and lesser equal amounts all the way to no-light (black). So say if the s. color of blue is at 100% and all others are non-existant you would have the most intense blue possible (I doubt such a thing has ever been seen though).

God, this is a really roundabout way of saying:
Because your enviroment is mostly white or light gray all s.colors are reflected equally on top of that your lightsource is pretty strong and because the "blue" block absorbs all other s.colors but blue; it should stay pretty intense even in the shadow. (We couldn't see anything but black in shadows if there weren't light reflected into them.)

Ugh, yet another roundabout way of saying something...

Now the colors from one block reflected onto another:
Sampling the color of one block onto another is fine for most purposes I think, however you have to take into consideration a few things:
Value Change - It is light being reflected so it should be brighter, probably just a little though (depending on the situation).
Hue Change - Our eyes work on additive color synthesis (look it up! Good stuff.) thus colors mix a bit differently than with say paint or markers (subtractive color synthesis). But I think the basic principles are mostly the same, things just get lighter and more intense (acs) rather than darker and less intense (scs). So, 50% blue s.light plus 50% yellow s.light equals green, more light equals more intense and higher value. Adding a "sampled" color works because photoshop/painter does the math for you (ideally).

Oo lordy, that was draining. I can't remember if I answered my own questions.. gunna go lie down now. Shoot any questions and clarifications out if you got em!

@Everyone: I really think I should have set this up better I think, I didn't really intend to have a cast shadows in 2 point perspective exercise, just a color theory exercise. Should we do some perspective exercises? Anything specifically besides shadows? Oh and read above if you haven't already.

@talmir: This is for everyone dood, we're all peers (unless it says professional under your name ) It's not about quality its about the lesson to be learned in the exercise, and now I'll be really pissed if you don't participate. - - - - - - - -So, to clarify: Everyone can and should participate !

It was far messier than this before. So I decided to clean it up. In doing so, I noticed a massive problem with my shadows from the orange and yellow blocks. Like you, I knew there was something wrong and couldn't quite place it. I will fix this sometime tomorrow. That'll teach me for not keeping my stuff clean .

Your also right about the lighting, the shadows are definitely too dark. The white should bounce up against the blocks. Damn radiosity, I'll master you yet.

Interesting theory as well. I'll have to look into this further.

As far as perspective exercises go, it might be a good idea. Also, I'd stick with the peer projects title. sounds good to me, and it's pretty straight forward.

Wow so you understood some of that jibberjabber I labeled theory? Sweet!

Ah, now I see why it was a little uncomfortable; your shadow guidelines are all paralell they too should recede to a vp. (I think...I dunno...)(But once again this setup is really horrible for this sort of thing... sowee!)

Now the pressures on, gunna have to redo mine after all this theory ... hehe. Gotta put some thought into it.

I think I can handle some perspective exercises, keep the thoughts coming!

Edit: Oh, and I don't really think your shadows are too dark... they look good where they are... too much lighter would be ugly I think. I dunno, maybe that's correct for the enviroment? Ick... time for bed, I'm discombobulated! (hence the archaic languange... including archaic...)

Guess i should have clarified my light source. its directional light, kinda like the sun, (i studied 3D for a time, so my terminology is based off that). Saying that, the shadows probably should occur the way they are.

You've also given me an idea; trying one of these exercises with a 'lightbulb' as a light source,... thanks!

-Rob

P.S. ANYBODY ELSE FEEL LIKE JOINING THESE EXERCISES? THEY BE FUN! I SWEAR!

Ahhhh I see, that's what I thought of when I considered what might cause shadows like that... but I don't think even the sun could do that. It would have to be reaaally far away and reallllly bright to look parallel wouldn't it? I mean, the shadow on my house recedes to a "vp".

Edit: Just in case anyone is reading this (and I hope you are!) Romance was right. Sunlight is practically parallel, I've read somewhere that it's actually 1/2 a degree or so different but I don't think that's really detectable. Not sure what I was thinking back when I wrote this ahah! Cheers!

Originally Posted by romance

Idiot Apathy: When you talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk

Crap! I didn't mean to talk the talk... fug.

Originally Posted by romance

P.S. ANYBODY ELSE FEEL LIKE JOINING THESE EXERCISES? THEY BE FUN! I SWEAR!

Yeah looks good dude, I wasn't so sure if light reflected off a shadow side of an object would effect a cast shadow (i.e. the blue added into your shadows from the blue block.) so I checked it real quick in a real life situation, sure enough, not very intense but it's there! Good stuff.

I should have time to do this over the weekend, maybe a new exercise too. You think of anything you can teach/setup Romance?

Found this while seeking proof to all the thinking I've been doing about light, some real serious stuff here. If you can get past the scientific garble there is a lot of stuff that is very useful to artists I think.

Idiot Apathy: I checked out the first couple pages of that link on lighting, looks extremely informative. I'll check out the rest of it when I find more time. Too busy building my portfolio at the moment. Hope to see your entry soon

@Romance: Looking good dude, I don't know about the amost pure black background, there should be at least some color/value I think. Is it me or is the way you have your cast shadows mean the lightsource is on the page? Like it would almost block our view of some of the blocks?

Ok, finally sat down and did this one:
( A little "overexposed" and "fuzzy" I think... not to mention the boring light direction )

Here's the notes I took while doing this, sorry I didn't have time to condense and re-order them.

Now all of my blocks have equal values on all sides (i.e. top of big block = top of small blocks in value.) I just did this by eye and what I wanted however I think it is very different to remember that most things will have different values. (Unless they are exactly the same in the same lighting situation.)

The amount of light reflected off an object depends on what the object is made from. You could say that these are all wooden blocks however if they are different colors then you could assume they are painted different, the paint is what is reflecting light now.

You may notice that on the small block on the right that is furthest from us the darkest part is a different color than the closer small block. If light is reflected off the same color object then the intensity should go up (there is more of this specific "blue" blue light), and of course because it is light it should also raise in value. (I've probably overdone it here though, a bit exagerated perhaps?)

Btw, Orange is the complement to blue, that's why is stands out so much in this blue enviroment.
- - - - - - -
@Everyone: If there is a reason your not participating shoot me off a PM and let me know why, it would be most appreciated.

I should have time later tonight to do another exercise, I think it will be lighting in 2 point perspective.

This is one I'd do a lot in the New Media Coloring Book, take the same lines and think of new ways to light them. It was especially helpful in thinking of what lighting would be best for the composition as well as overall good practice for shadows etc.- - - - - - - - - -
The Guidelines: Edited: Updated
A: Do the project and create a dialogue of what you did and why. (Try and think about this while you do the project, this is important; we will be better able to learn from each other as well as catch each other's mistakes.)
B: The Dialogue will be analysed by your peers; (Right or wrong, the idea is to have a reason why and explain it. I think this will be key )
C: And of course at the same time peer critiques will be offered. (Pretty simple no?)
D: You shouldn't have to spend a large amount of time on this however spend as much time as you need, give it your best.
E. All Projects/Exercises are of course optional, have no order, and are always open to participation. Start wherever and whenever you want!
F. People who are too embarassed to post their results will be shot on sight, you're here to learn not to show off.- - - - - - - - - - - - -I strongly recommend you read the discussions and analyses within others posts that are between exercises. I see a lot of the same advice being repeated. Read through this for your sake; I mean don't you want to learn faster?

This being said, sometimes advice or critiques will be given that may be incorrect, or misconceptions; I most likely am not innocent of this either. If you spot mistakes be sure and correct them! Don't confuse these with opinions however, which are never wrong only different.- - - - - - - - - - - - -On this one keep everything simple, the shapes the light everything!Step One: Take a public domain photo and break it into very simple shapes. At the bottom I've provided some great public domain photo sites as well as some photo's I found that you might want to do. (The whole idea is to do these projects fairly quickly to get the main idea, finding a proper photo might take a while.) - - -Step Two: Here I took the photo and converted it to grayscale just to make it easier. I then set up some really simple guidelines to keep it in proportion. (If you must you can trace over your reference but remember tracing is a crutch and you'll soon get weak if you don't practice without it!). It's not perfect nor should it be, that's not the point of the exercise. Hammer this puppy out!
Step Two: Create two or three different lighting situations and roll with it! Just do this exercise in grayscale to keep it fast and don't forget your shadows!

Going to post my results just so there won't be any confusion.
Again, grayscale photo and some guidlines then some quick lines. Sloppy and quick, spend as much or as little time here as you want, just keep it simple.
#1
Front lighting, very simple and very boring. Not much in the way of visible shadows, fun though.
#2
Lit from the left, cool shadow on this one.
#3
Lit from the Top Left Rear... I think I got bored and became lazy on this one, it's Oogly.

5-10 minutes each, hammer these out. The point is to get the general idea out really quick, like a thumbnail. Later you could use this to decide how to light your subject best.

Idiot Apathy, I think this is a wonderful idea for a thread and soon I will be joining in... as of right now I am very busy with work and a newly pregnant fiance.... but when I free up some time (maybe the weekend?) I definitely want in on this bag o tricks

Cool dude, I appreciate the enthusiasm, beginning to wonder if this thread was going to die. Start wherever you want; Don't feel like your behind or anything the exercises are meant to be open forever. Oh and Congrats!

Well, I decided to draw along, after having quite some fun in finding a photo of an object I'd like to use. Eventually I wound up with two different situations, one front-lighting from the bottom, the other from a sort of 3/4 high point lighting ('how to be creative with the english language, part I' ).

The first has a crappy BG, but I like the way the light shows on the standard, though it's a bit too shiny, compared to the actual photo. It's supposed to be dark wood, here it looks more like light... wood I think?

I like the second a lot better. The shadow on the surface still isn't completely right, but it's the best I could do in a short period of time. I think the overall feel of this one is better than the other...