Christians rest their faith on the presumption that Jesus will someday return. Because of my beliefs, i believe this will never happen, but i have a question. When and under what circumstances do you believe Christ will have his second coming? When the entire world has been evangalized? When every Christian has lost his or her faith (my prediction)? I just want to pinpoint your personal beliefs on the fate of our world.

Atheists and others alike. Lets not criticize the Christians for their predictions. As a former Christian myself, i had my own beliefs on this subject, so I want to see what all the others think.

Christians, the same goes for you. Dont tell me im going to hell or that i am worthless in the eyes of god. Just post your predictions.

Christians rest their faith on the presumption that Jesus will someday return.
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correct

Because of my beliefs, i believe this will never happen, but i have a question. When and under what circumstances do you believe Christ will have his second coming?
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It&#39;s all over the Bible, but if you weant a summery, read Rev. It has most of the signs in discribed in it, though a great deal of them are symbolic

When the entire world has been evangalized? When every Christian has lost his or her faith (my prediction)? I just want to pinpoint your personal beliefs on the fate of our world.
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see above

Atheists and others alike. Lets not criticize the Christians for their predictions. As a former Christian myself, i had my own beliefs on this subject, so I want to see what all the others think.
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thank you for that, though I dont think it will help.

Christians, the same goes for you. Dont tell me im going to hell or that i am worthless in the eyes of god. Just post your predictions.
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only a closit Satanist pretending to be a Christian would say that. It really gets me when everyone keeps on saying that you have to be perfect for God to love you, becauyse it isn&#39;t true&#33; God loves you right now, He just isn&#39;t happy about the way you are living, so to all you people who think you are Christian, start acting like it and obaying the Bible. Dont think you are so wonderful and everyone else sucks. That is not the way Jesus showed us&#33;

sorry, but it needed to be said

anyhow, it is all pritty much in Rev. It cant be summerized in a single post (as far as I know)

"There are people who say there is no God, but what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views." ~Albert Einstein
 Ask me  Way Back  Your Soul  My Dream Story (Chapter two UP!) 

Why to worry about his returning? And who can truely affraid of this? Chiefly those who have a guilty concience. While one lives honesty and doesn&#39;t hurt the others...then that is what Jesus expects of us.

Well, the authors of the gospels of matthew, mark and luke all seem to think that jesus is coming back within their lifetime. The following is from matthew; mark (13:24) and luke (21:25) contain virtually identical passages.

Mat 24:24-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.[/b]

I don&#39;t see why you need to go to revelations to interpret a different date when it&#39;s clearly in the gospels - jesus predicted his second coming to be within a generation.

Sure, you probably probably could interpret a different timeline for the second coming from revelations. But whats the point? Christians have been doing that consistently since revelations has been in circulation, and so far every projected second-coming hasn&#39;t happened. That&#39;s the beauty of revelations - you can interpret is vagueness to be valid for any time. The nice thing about the gospels though, more so for non-believers than for christians, is that it&#39;s not really up for interpretation. The passages clearly set "a generation" as the timeline.

I don&#39;t see why you need to go to revelations to interpret a different date when it&#39;s clearly in the gospels - Jesus predicted his second coming to be within a generation. [/b]

You&#39;re right you don&#39;t have to go to revelations for a time stamp of Christ&#39;s return, however revelation only embodies the sequence of events thereafter Christ&#39;s Return.

Originally Posted by spoon

That&#39;s the beauty of revelations - you can interpret is vagueness to be valid for any time. The nice thing about the gospels though, more so for non-believers than for Christians, is that it&#39;s not really up for interpretation. The passages clearly set "a generation" as the timeline. [/b]

Yup you are right it did set a generation as a time reference as mentioned in the book of Matthew. The real question is, exactly which generation is Christ referring to? Be advised that Christ delivered a lot more than verse 24-30. If you take only that those verses how can one understand? It&#39;s not up for interpretation on any level however the signs listed are for acknowledgement.

-When you pulled this passage from the scriptures below -

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.[/b]

So let me ask you, what do you think are the things that must be fulfilled that a generation shows consistency before passing?

Um I hope I&#39;m not blaspheming in anyone&#39;s eyes but I think Jesus was just another bloke who was very spiritually developed. He was just another spiritual teacher like Mohamed, Buddha etc. He&#39;s not coming back, why would he. I mean he already has come back in a sense because I think there already are people like him around, but some people are blind to the fact because they&#39;re waiting in vain for &#39;Jesus&#39; to come back. Ever seen the play Waiting For Godot? Jesus was just a human like us and we can all &#39;become&#39; Jesus, if you see what I mean...become as spiritually developed as him. Wasn&#39;t that his message? He didn&#39;t die for us, what would that achieve? He died to show us what every one of us can achieve through the power of infinitely selfless love and compassion, just like him. Plus his death taught us that truly everything does end, if even he died. I mean end as in end ie not coming back, or only coming back in the sense that when the presidency &#39;died&#39; during Bill Clinton&#39;s term, he came back as George Bush.[/sermon] er, must be cus its sunday...(I&#39;m not Christian)

How do people think he&#39;s going to come back? Like down from the sky on a chariot of fire to the sound of trumpets and a booming voice bellowing, &#39;You have just witnessed the second coming of Jesus Christ&#33;&#39;.

to me, the legitimacy of Jesus dissapeared at his last moment on earth. Sure, i can understand miracles (from a Christian perspective), becuase &#092;"anything is possible with god&#092;". But when he just floated up into the sky? Come on, now, thats just stupid. As i said before, early people did not know about space. They did not know what was there, so they assumed thats where god rested (hense, looking down on humanity). So what did jesus do? Float into space?

Is that not convenient that Jesus just miraculously floated into what they thought was heaven?

Well, Keeper, i must disagree with you on one thing. Christians HAVE told me that i will burn in hell and that i am worthless. It has happened with many of my closest/former friends. And i am not the only one....

From what he told me, hominis feralis was expelled from his private high school because of his religious beliefs. He talked to a priest, who was the dean of students, and said that he was an atheist. He was promptly kicked out because the school only accepts Catholics. Hm...Catholics. The worst of the breed. The worst part is i think it did some emotional damage to tha kid. How can anybody handle someone saying your are worthless to the school?

Maybe when they wrote he floated up into the sky it was meant to be symbolic of him becoming enlightened/attaining union with god/becoming one with god/reaching nirvana/whatever you get the idea. Its a metaphor for the ascension of his mind. Why the hell would he float up into the sky? Like you said, he&#39;d just run out of air eventually. I think he&#39;s still legit, after all he didn&#39;t write it, you can&#39;t blame the poor guy.

Actually, Christ was supposed to return within the lifetime of those who were alive when he was. He never did. The whole "Rapture" idea didn&#39;t really start until around the 1940&#39;s or 50&#39;s. If you asked your great great great Grandparents about the rapture...they would have no idea what you were talking about. It is kind of a new-age Christian belief.

The Christians living in the 1800&#39;s, for example, did not believe that Christ was going to return.

Originally Posted by Jess

Maybe when they wrote he floated up into the sky it was meant to be symbolic of him becoming enlightened/attaining union with god/becoming one with god/reaching nirvana/whatever you get the idea. Its a metaphor for the ascension of his mind. Why the hell would he float up into the sky? Like you said, he&#39;d just run out of air eventually. I think he&#39;s still legit, after all he didn&#39;t write it, you can&#39;t blame the poor guy.
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yah, I&#39;m sure there was a guy named Jesus Christ...in fact there were quite a few of them...but the Jesus Christ that you read about in the bible was created by a commitee. He wasn&#39;t the biological son of God...in fact he never ever says that in the Bible. He says he is the Son of Man. He said we are ALL the "son&#39;s of God", people just took him literally.
I believe most of the bible is based on symbolism. It is not meant to be taken literally.

Yup you are right it did set a generation as a time reference as mentioned in the book of Matthew. The real question is, exactly which generation is Christ referring to?[/b]

"This generation"... the generation of the people he is talking to..

So let me ask you, what do you think are the things that must be fulfilled that a generation shows consistency before passing?[/b]

A generation is usually a standard lifetime, no? It&#39;s used all over matthew in that context, so there&#39;s no reason not to assume it means that here. So 40ish years, at that time? There&#39;s nothing else that is required for a generation to pass, save for that a bit of time.

"There are people who say there is no God, but what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views." ~Albert Einstein
 Ask me  Way Back  Your Soul  My Dream Story (Chapter two UP!) 

to me, the legitimacy of Jesus dissapeared at his last moment on earth. Sure, i can understand miracles (from a Christian perspective), becuase &#092;"anything is possible with god&#092;". But when he just floated up into the sky? Come on, now, thats just stupid. As i said before, early people did not know about space. They did not know what was there, so they assumed thats where god rested (hense, looking down on humanity). So what did jesus do? Float into space?[/b]

"This generation"... the generation of the people he is talking to..[/b]

LOL...Actually that was rhetorical, because it&#39;s pretty much self explanitory.

Originally Posted by spoon

A generation is usually a standard lifetime, no? It&#39;s used all over matthew in that context, so there&#39;s no reason not to assume it means that here. So 40ish years, at that time? There&#39;s nothing else that is required for a generation to pass, save for that a bit of time.
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This is exactly what I&#39;m getting at Spoon. I quote &#39;Sir Keeper&#39;

spoon, read the rest of the passage. He was giving signs about what the generation who will see it will expreience so that they would know.[/b]

to me, the legitimacy of Jesus dissapeared at his last moment on earth. Sure, i can understand miracles (from a Christian perspective), becuase &#092;"anything is possible with god&#092;". But when he just floated up into the sky? Come on, now, thats just stupid. As i said before, early people did not know about space. They did not know what was there, so they assumed thats where god rested (hense, looking down on humanity). So what did jesus do? Float into space?
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That would be another good point for the science thread. Did Jesus float up at the speed of light? Even if he did, it would have taken him many billions and billions of years just to get away from the part of the universe we can see with telescopes. At this point, he has traveled about one seventy-five thousandth of the width of the Milky Way Galaxy. I hope his frozen body has not slammed into an asteroid. And if he comes back any time in the next few billion years, what will have been the point of travelling that very short distance in space?

sorry, Box. I hardly have the time now, as I&#39;m buisy with my week subjects in exams.

anyhow, I said that my data will be posted late nov early Dec, so just be patent.
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It does not take long to post data. Why do you keep saying that? In the time you left that post, you could have posted a link to your supposed "data". Please don&#39;t forget to give me the big explanation for how Noah kept at least 30-100 million species alive during a world flood. You said you will post that by then end of this month, right?

"There are people who say there is no God, but what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views." ~Albert Einstein
 Ask me  Way Back  Your Soul  My Dream Story (Chapter two UP!) 

It does not take long to post data. Why do you keep saying that? In the time you left that post, you could have posted a link to your supposed "data". Please don&#39;t forget to give me the big explanation for how Noah kept at least 30-100 million species alive during a world flood. You said you will post that by then end of this month, right?
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No don&#39;t worry about it Keeper. Universal Mind I got you covered on that one Sit Tight it will be here soon I&#39;m in the mist of finishing an entire summary for Tsen and your question is included in that also. So there you will find your answer.

It does not take long to post data. Why do you keep saying that? In the time you left that post, you could have posted a link to your supposed "data". Please don&#39;t forget to give me the big explanation for how Noah kept at least 30-100 million species alive during a world flood. You said you will post that by then end of this month, right?
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First I would like to know where exactly did you come up with such an exagerated number? 100 Million? Are you kidding Me? And I hope you&#39;re not including Dino and his friends from a so called "Palaeozaic and Mesozaic Era" because it&#39;s comman sense that Dinosaurs never roamed the Earth.

Okay let&#39;s first take a look at the size of the Ark and then we will break it down as we continue. God said unto Noah Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt though make in the ark, and thou shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of the length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. A window shalt thou make in the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side therof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it." ( Gen. 6:14-16)
Most Hebrew scholars believe the cubit to have been no less than 18 inches long [45.72 centimeters]. This means that the ark would have been at least 450 feet long [ 137.16 meters], 75 feet wide [ 22.86 meters] and 45 feet high [13.716000000000001 meters]. Noah&#39;s Ark was said to have been the largest sea-going vessel ever built until the late nineteenth century when giant metal ships were first constructed. Its length to width ratio of six to one provided excellent stability on the high seas. In fact, modern shipbuilders say it would have been almost impossible to turn over. In every way, it was admirably suited for riding out the tremendous storms in the year of the flood.
The total available floor space on the ark would have been over 100,000 square feet, which would be more floor space than in 20 standard-sized basketball courts. The total cubic volume would have been 1,518,000 cubic feet [462, 686.4 cubic meters] --that would be equal to the capacity of 569 modern railroad stock cars. Now comes the question, how many land dwelling air breathing animals would have had to be taken aboard the ark to survive the flood?
According to Ernest Mayr, America&#39;s leading taxonomist, there are over 1 million species of animals in the world. However, the vast majority of these are capable of surviving in water and would not need to be brought aboard the ark. Noah need make no provision for the 21,000 species of fish or the 1,700 tunicates (marine chordates like sea squirts) found throughout the seas of the world, or the 600 echinoderms including star fish and sea urchins, or the 107,000 mollusks such as mussels, clams and oysters, or the 10,000 coelenterates like corals and sea anemones, jelly fish and hydroids or the 5,000 species of sponges, or the 30,000 protozoans, the microscopic single-celled creatures.
In addition, some of the mammals are aquatic. For example, the whales, seals and porpoises. The amphibians need not all have been included, nor all the reptiles, such as sea turtles, and alligators. Moreover, a large number of the arthropods numbering 838,000 species, such as lobsters, shrimp, crabs and water fleas and barnacles are marine creatures. And the insect species among arthropoda are usually very small. Also, many of the 35,000 species of worms as well as many of the insects could have survived outside the Ark.
So how many animals needed to be brought aboard? Doctors Morris and Whitcomb in their classic book,The Genesis Flood state that no more than 35,000 individual animals needed to go on the ark. In his well documented book, Noah&#39;s Ark: A Feasibility Study, John Woodmorappe suggests that far fewer animals would have been transported upon the ark. By pointing out that the word "specie" is not equivalent to the "created kinds" of the Genesis account, Woodmorappe credibly demonstrates that as few as 2,000 animals may have been required on the ark. To pad this number for error, he continues his study by showing that the ark could easily accommodate 16,000 animals.)
But, let&#39;s be generous and add on a reasonable number to include extinct animals. Then add on some more to satisfy even the most skeptical. Let&#39;s assume 50,000 animals, far more animals than required, were on board the ark, and these need not have been the largest or even adult specimens.
Remember there are really only a few very large animals, such as the dinosaur or the elephant, and these could be represented by young ones. Assuming the average animal to be about the size of a sheep and using a railroad car for comparison, we note that the average double-deck stock car can accommodate 240 sheep. Thus, three trains hauling 69 cars each would have ample space to carry the 50,000 animals, filling only 37% of the ark. This would leave an additional 361 cars or enough to make 5 trains of 72 cars each to carry all of the food and baggage plus Noah&#39;s family of eight people. In conclusion let&#39;s just say the Ark had plenty of space.