Thursday, February 11, 2016

Gleason's Map

When flat-Earthers talk about the shape of the Earth, most of them propose that it is a disc, with the North Pole as the center, and what we think is the South Pole around the rim, forming a great ice wall. As I showed on my previous post, the idea is that the sun and moon circle around the disc and create day and night, and somehow moon phases and eclipses.

But that's not the subject of this post. There was quite a stir awhile back on YouTube when someone found a map in the collection of the Boston Public Library. This is the map:

Look! there it is! North Pole in the middle, big ice ring around the perimeter. The flat Earth!

Well, maybe. Closer examination reveals a few clues. The first is in the upper left corner, where is says: Longitude and Time Calculator. There is also that weird something sticking out from the center, that seems to be riveted in the middle and torn off at around 30 degrees north. What is that for?

And there are numbers around the rim that must serve some function.

More telling, especially to anyone who's had a little bit of cartography education, is one very important word near the top. It says that this map is "On the Projection of J. S. Christopher, Modern College, Blackheath, England." Projection means that it is derived from some other shape, like maybe a globe.

Flat-Earthers make much of the words "As It Is" and "Scientifically and Practically Correct," and even more of the descriptions of the motion of the sun in the lower corners. But what did Gleason have to say about it? Do we know?

Well, we certainly know what he said on his US Patent application from 1895. Here is Gleason's concept drawing as submitted:

You can read the entire patent, which describes the map's use as a time calculator for students. But the most important passage from the flat-Earth standpoint is this:

The map is not so extorted as to lose the relative latitude and longitude of any places on the land or sea, but retains all latitudes and longitudes of places agreeing with other recognized authors; and as the proper relations of continents and countries all stand in their relative position to each other, they are thus impressed upon the mind of the student. The extorsion of the map from that of a globe consists, mainly in the straightening out of the meridian lines allowing each to retain their original value from Greenwich, the equator to the two poles.

The use of "extorted" in the sense of "distorted" is interesting here, but the intent is clear; the map is not "as it is" (which I think may have been a slogan of the map's publisher), but a projection that preserves the positions with regard to longitude lines, but not the distances between them (distances between lines of latitude, however, are preserved). And note his phrasing "the equator to the two poles." A flat Earth does not have poles.

This type of projection is know as an azimuthal equidistant projection, and when properly used it has many applications in navigation, telecommunications, and even military planning. The projection method has been known for about 1000 years. Azimuthal projections are not always centered on the North Pole; they can be generated mathematically from any point on the globe. You can generate one for yourself online.

The fact that so many flat-Earthers automatically dub this a "flat-Earth map" everywhere they see it shows a profound lack of willingness to do deep research, and a penchant for jumping onto bandwagons.

I think Gleason would be appalled.

ADDENDUM: Well, apparently I was wrong about Gleason. He really was a flat-Earther after all. I will do a full post on this when I get the chance.

So why did the patent examiners of several nations grant a patent to a flat-Earth map? Because the patent application conveniently left that little detail out. More to follow, along with revisions to this post.

90 comments:

Here is my challenge to flat earthers. Show me the map where I can accurately measure the following distances AND areas on your "flat map":

Distance from Nuuk to New York (2984.16km) to Johannesburg (12834.99km) to Prague (8556.58km) back to Nuuk (4076.04km) and area of Greenland(836300 mi²), Africa (11.67 million mi²), New Zealand(103483 mi²), & Texas (268820 mi²)

And then we can check a few other distance & area measurements.

Gaussian curvature unequivocally demonstrates that you CANNOT map a spheroid surface (like the Earth) to a flat map without tears or distortions. And mapping a FLAT earth to a FLAT map should be comparatively trivial.

it is flat, but not the way you think, it has to be a circular disk so the Dome , the - firm amen t - can rotate in a smooth mechanical way, if you will, it is the dome what rotates not the earth . you only have to look at the shape of the rainbows to see the shape of the Dome, the Heavens,

remember tho, there are mountains miles high and the depth of the Oceans, but from a distant above it looks flat surface, do you understand, please say you do because it it important for the revelations

ElizabethEva Young, your reply is completely non-responsive to Dark Star's comment. Can you produce a map that accurately reflects the areas and distances he gave? In addition, do you have anything but your own assertions to prove the existence of the firmament that you supposed rotates over the disc? Or the disc itself? Can you explain sunsets (don't say perspective if you haven't read my blog; you'll only anger me)? Can you explain why the stars rotate around a southern celestial pole?

Just saying that something is a certain way doesn't make it so. I do understand what you are saying, but I also understand that it cannot be true.

its flat , the rainbow, the northern lights .. tell us its flat.. cognitive dissonance is what rounders experience. All you have to is research and the evidence is there. Operation paper clip , operation dominic , operation fish bowl .. these are real events ..

Blah blah blah. This proves flat Earth. THAT proves flat Earth. Some group of military operations exist, and therefore the Earth is flat. Same old nonsense babbling, and no real proof of anything.

After more than a year of publishing and responding to comments on this blog, I've yet to see one from the flat-Earth side with any real substance. The closest anyone came was Edward Hendrie, who admitted he was mistaken about Polaris being visible from 21 degrees south of the equator.

I remain torn between both sides. My main question is how come Nasa hasn't put this debate to rest by showing a 360 shot of the earth ? Everything they release looks like a tease. They've have been in space since the 60's. I just don't understand. Any reason why ?

Tim, first of all let me state, with great confidence, that NASA doesn't give a rat's ass about people who think the Earth is flat. They have more pressing issues and are well aware that the shape of the Earth was settled science about 2000 years ago.

Now, by 360 shot of Earth, what do you mean? You mean seeing the Earth turn a full 360 degrees? Well, they've done that, but only starting last year because it's really, really hard to do. You have to send a satellite out. Not a satellite that orbits Earth, but one that orbits the sun, so that it can stay in one place relative to the Earth. That satellite is called DISCOVR, and it sends pictures of the Earth all day, every day. Not as video because of something called the inverse square law; DISCOVR is a million miles away from Earth, and the data rate is pretty low.

On the other hand, there are also satellites that orbit in geostationary orbit, staying over the same spot on Earth. It shows the same place all the time, but you can see the sunlight moving around the Earth all day. One of these is Himawari-8. Another one is Echostar, which is used to transmit dish TV for Dish Network. It had a camera on it transmitting real-time video until the camera died in 2012. Since it's pretty well impossible to send out a repair crew, there's no chance that the camera will be fixed, though it could be replaced when Echostar is decommissioned.

You see, these things are not simple, and they are not cheap, and they are not necessary to prove that the Earth is not flat. Stop listening to the excuses of flat-Earthers and go learn some real science. It's far more interesting, and has the added advantage of being true.

can you please provide some evidence which debunks the video link I have posted? How is it possible for the Apollo missions to have reached the moon, if we currently cannot send an unmanned space vehicle through the Van Allen Radiation Belt? Furthermore, why did the astronaut being interviewed from the space station say that we cannot fly outside of "earth orbit?" Finally, can you explain why Dr. Lawrence Cohen, "Ace" U.S. Intelligence, would come forward and expose the current heliocentric myth? Please provide me a link to your blog where you show, through the use of scientific evidence (no pseudoscience) how he was incorrect in his beliefs. Finally, if you could also provide a link to the evidence which you believe disproves the laser lake test, I would greatly appreciate it.

Gotta love people who just post off topic, demanding explanations for things they could easily research themselves, instead of addressing the post, or any of the comments on the post.

Look: NASA has never said that we can't send unmanned space vehicles through the Van Allen belts. In fact, it's done every time they or any other space agency sends out any deep-space probe. What they have said is that it is not prudent to send people through the belts without first testing to make sure that the untested new computers guidance systems won't have a problem with the radiation.

Quote-mining, by the way, is lying.

We did send astronauts through the belts, of course, and thanks to good planning and carefully-designed shielding, their exposure was minimal.

The astronaut who spoke of not being able to go beyond low-Earth orbit was referring to the fact that we do not have any current vehicles designed for that. Even since he said it, though, we have come much closer to having current candidates from NASA, SpaceX, and other space agencies. Again, do your research and stop quote-mining.

As to Dr. Lawrence Cohen, I have no idea who he is, except for his appearance as co-author of many fringe books with Bruce Salisbury. His supposed intelligence credentials, even if true, do not impress me, and he seems to be contributing to books on science and medicine, areas where experience in intelligence are useless.

I don't care if he has "Dr." in front of his name; I have not read any of his work and don't intend to waste my money.

I don't need to disprove the laser lake test; the people who did the test need to prove to me that they used some measure of controls for variables such as beam spread and refraction. There are better, simpler tests, but flat-Earthers seem more interested in gaming the system than in searching for facts.

If you really want to promote flat Earth on this blog, then come with evidence, not ignorance, and certainly not with appeals to authorities with no authority.

It is simple to prove earth is round and rotates. Since we aparrwntly have satalites roatating earth and we have been to the moon then just show us flat Earthers a video of the Earth rotating in space.....? No...not even one image shown by nasa-zionist-satanists...not one video of earth in space. Lets leave the fact that there is not one real image...but come on...is there not some space station up there or some b.s. like that? If everyone is convinced because so called science then lets see the f'n video! None. Not one video....oh please. Obviously a lie. As for flat...look out the dawm window in a plane. Or how aboit the fact that they do not have to curve railway tracks...retards...if you are on a rollar coaster it curves...um...train tracks would have to have cuvreature in the manufacturing. Also..look up the video whete nasa goes in a man made vacume and his tonge started boiling in seconds. So stupid and Godless you satanic globe freaks r in denial. There is visual proof outside my window that the Earth is flat and there is not one video of earth rotating in space. So piss off

Why is it so impossible for flat-Earthers to stay on topic. Or read the rest of the blog before saying things like "they don't have to curve railway tracks."

Dish Network broadcast live video of the Earth from space for several years until the camera gave out. More detailed images take longer to transmit, but Himawari-8 produces a new image of the entire Earth every ten minutes.

Why do you ppl always ask flat earthers to prove geocentric m9dels when they themselves cant prove heliocentric models without regurgitating some bs learned thru traditional education. I have yet to see any unequivocal prove the earth being round. Somebody showed me the redbull skydive footage as proof, pointing out the curved horizon, even during instances which it inverted then reverted back.

nunya bidnezus Why do you people always insist on showing off your own ignorance? If you can't even come close to understanding the model you are attempting to overthrow, why do you think you have a chance of succeeding?

I have provided, on this blog, three tests which clearly show that the Earth cannot be flat. No flat-Earther has dared to perform. Will you be the first? I didn't think so.

We have been lied to for 500 years and you want us to produce an accurate map. The Gleason map is closer than the spinning miracle water ball.

I have many challenges for you:1. Name 1 experiment that was used to back up the ball claim in the 1400's?2. Explaining season by the directness of the sun rays is laughable. You can place over 140 points the size of the earth on the arc of the sun (going by what we were taught). Any angle of the sun would be better than blocked sun. You can't even eplain a summer night, rays in Austraila in the winter are better than no rays at night. The eclipse caused a 30 degree temperature drop.3. If the earth spins 360 degrees in 24 hours. 12 noon would appear as 12 midnight in 6 months. The flat earth model is the only one that works.4. Real science is test, observe, repeat. There have been plenty of experiments that debunk relativity and gravity. Yet egos hold onto the brain washing.

1. By the 1400s people were already doing geodesy. Backing up the "ball claim" would have been a laughable exercise.

2. From this incoherent mess I gather that you don't understand much about the dynamics caused by having an atmosphere. How is this a challenge? What kind of response do you expect?

3. The Earth does not spin 360 degrees in 24 hours; in 24 hours it spins about 361 degrees.

4. Again, how do you call this a challenge? The "plenty of experiments" you refer to can't hold a candle to the thousands of experiments and practical applications that prove the existence of gravity. In fact, I can't think of one experiment that debunks the existence and operation of gravity. But don't bother linking me to a YouTube video, because I'm not going to be impressed by some guy jumping or letting balloons float into the sky, or telling me that birds should not be able to fly if gravity exists.

Because it seems to me that all of these "experiments" are just like your "challenges": non-existent.

How does a round Earth flood? and does gravity help the rain clouds shoot rain drops to the ground south of the equator? Flooding can only happen on a flat surface with walls higher than the leveled ground that's containing it. NASA also claims they cannot and gave nit ever been able to go higher than low earth orbit. The USGS claims the Gleason's map is accurate to how the earth looks which looks similar to flat Earth map, yet won't acknowledge the flat Earth even existing. The UN, the white house with use the flat Earth map as their logo, the five ancient religions believed the earth to be flat until Capernicus solved the problem with math. You know why they train their astronauts in water??? Because space is water not because it's closest to the effect of 0 gravity and stars and planets (wandering stars) can only occur in water because of energy, frequency and vibration. They can't show the dark side of the moon. They never show a 360 degree panoramic view of space. If space is a vaccuum how is it that noones ever been sucked out into space when traveling through and when they were bouncing around on the moon? Ask buzz Aldrin to swear on the Bible that he went to the moon and watch him punch you in the face. What I want to know is how does a ball flood? I want to see wats behind them while on their space walks, tired of looking at the ball already...

Cheri Baum Who? Yours is exactly the kind of comment I usually don't publish, being just another off-topic series of standard ignorant flat-Earth claims. But sometimes I let them go through to show people just how much ignorance has been spread in the name of the "truth."

I will come back and answer your questions, although I don't think you serious care about having them answered. But not today; it's late, I have rehearsals and performances for the next nine days, and frankly I don't think you've asked anything nearly important enough for me to be in any hurry to address.

Yes, as I later found out, and as I mention in my addendum. It doesn't make the flat Earth true, and I'm sure that patent officials were unaware of the nature of Gleason's beliefs on the matter, as he never brought it up in his patent application.

Water Level = flat earth. Show me any river like the Nile or Amazon and the thousands of miles of curve/bulge these rivers would have with water moving upwards and over this curve. Water cannot run up, only down to it's level. Wake up sheep

I'm publishing this wildly off-topic comment to show that flat-Earthers seem incapable of addressing the question at hand. Want to see if water bends around the curve? Do test two in the experiments in the "Flat Earth Tests" tab at the top of this page. If you are not willing to do physical tests, you have no credibility whatsoever.

And look carefully at your comment, find the glaring math errors, and then study some real physics, okay? You people are getting very tiring.

Your general relativity and quantum mechanic pseudo science the earth is both spherical the Alma Mundi or what we call aether today. Light has been proven to bend and it doesn't not travel as we were taught there is no constant speed ratio to measure light IT'S NOT VISIBLE you can't see it only what is reflected off. Like in open space, the sun is not visible neither are the stars, the aether of the earth acts just like a prism that separates light the sun acts like a transformer only the flarest is what we get and we see light on the inside but only bodies of the planets including the moon is visible No light exist in space. Explain to me, WHAT IS A FIELD?

Dinah Townsend Yes, I admitted my mistake, something that I rarely see flat-Earthers do. Your other comments were deleted because they were useless insults. Have you any actual proof of a flat Earth, or are you just trolling my blog?

Water is completely flat. This does not prove the eart is flat, but why would we not find the curvature in the water if the earth is a ball? The moon landings were clearly faked, along with every picture of the globe. Why would they fake the globe pictures and lead people to believe they were real photos of earth? Some questions I have. We know the elite believe themselves to be the keepers of knowledge and they perform their illusions upon us through the control of information, why not this particular illusion then?

Yet another completely off-topic comment. Look, the experiment at Lake Balaton has been thoroughly torn apart by people who actually know something about light, lasers, and surveying. The "clearly faked" moon landings could not have been, which you would know if you were my age and had obsessively studied photography and filmmaking in your youth, as I did. You cannot possibly prove that the globe photos were faked, so don't act as if you are offering facts.

The curve of the Earth is something you can detect yourself, if you are careful enough to take all variables into account. See the "Flat Earth Tests" tab at the top of this page, and read the rest of my blog before you go making claims I have already addressed.

Humanity is under a massive amount of spells.We have been lied and deceived for too long.The earth is a flat disc, the centre is in the area we call north pole.Antarctica is not a continent, it’s a ring of ice that surrounds this plane of existence.There are no planets, only planes of existence.There is no space. “The sky is the limit” – Because there is a dome above, a barrier.Satellites are nothing more than high altitude balloons.The ISS is just a high altitude structure, no one lives there, it’s all filmed on land and swimming pools.The moon is a semi luminescent disc, as such, it’s impossible to land on it.The tides are not created by the moon, they are originated by this plane, that pushes and pulls the water at the centre (area designated as north pole).Gravity is an illusion, a theory, a spell.There is only density and subtlety, something dense will always fall because of the weight, and something subtle will have no weight and so it will float, like gases, like vapour.NASA is nothing more than a big illusion, just like Disneyland or Hollywood, a machine that casts spells.

“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” - von Goethe

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - G.Orwell(?)

“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” - Mark Twain

This might win my award for the largest number of unsubstantiated assertions in a single comment. That and a few appeals to authority (authorities who would scoff at your flat-Earth notion if alive) are all this comment has. Were it not such a fine example of the lack of evidence for a flat Earth, I would not have published it.

da da: It isn't what you say or what I say. It's the evidence that you can actually provide. In the end, you follow the evidence, but you have to make sure you're taking everything into account. That's where the flat Earth fails every time.

Hello brother human Gordon Brooks, thank you for your answer. So, could you please tell me and everyone else what is the evidence that you can actually provide and that it takes everything into account that the earth is, as you think, a globe.

da da: It's actually very easy, and very ancient: observe the sun. Not YouTube videos or diagrams of the sun, but the actual sun. Watch the way that it doesn't appreciably change size as it appears to move from east to west, which shows that it is not close. Watch it dip below the horizon and measure the angle in the sky, which you can easily do with just sticks and shadows.

Try to measure the distance to the sun and note that, from different locations on the Earth, the calculation yields very inconsistent results if you assume a flat plane. All of these things consider, and match, all everyday observations. Anyone with some patience, some education, and a little bit of thought can make these observations, which only make sense on a spherical Earth.

There's more, of course; geodetic surveyors can actually measure the curvature at different places on Earth; it is they who first verified Newton's prediction that the Earth should not, on account of its spinning, be perfectly spherical. Spacecraft that have left low-earth orbit have sent back photographs of the Earth. The very functioning of all artificial satellites depends on the Earth being a sphere.

But observing the sun, without prejudice, is a way for anyone to know that the Earth cannot be flat.

Hello my human brother and I thank you for your answer:I have seen the sun countless times when I am at the beach, from the dawn of day until noon and I can say for certain that it is the Sun that is travelling around our plane, not the other way around. I dare anyone to do this, go to the beach or an open area, from the rising sun until noon or even the end of day and you can verify as FACT that it is the sun that is moving around us, and so is the moon. They travel around our earth in a circular motion, between the tropic of Cancer and the tropic of Capricorn.I dare anyone to start thinking for themselves and not beLIEving someone’s authority, and that includes myself, I want all my brothers and sisters to start to wake up to the amount of lies and deceptions that we have been living with the sole purpose to keep us ignorant to the fact of where we are and no less WHO WE ARE.

The image of the sun in the water is also proof that the sun is not 93 millions miles away, as if that was the case, light would be evenly distributed and it would loose the shape in the water.Anyone can verify this, and they can even try this at home: get a bowl, fill it with water, turn off the lights and get someone to hold the flashlight near the bowl, and you will see the shape reflected on the water, next ask for the person to move away from the bowl and you will see that the reflection will lose the shape and the light will spread evenly in the bowl.

The distance from the sun can and has been measured to be not more than 6000 miles high, and with the size of around 32 miles.

“geodetic surveyors can actually measure the curvature at different places on Earth”What are you talking about? There is no globe, there is no curvature, and that is not because I say so, but because it’s the truth, and truth stands on it’s own, it does not fear anything.

You bring about Newton? Sir Mr. Gravity? Come on brother, we all know that Newton was a freemasonic Zionist agent. Gravity is a theory, it’s a spell, an illusion, it does not exist.

Spinning? How is it possible that something that is fixed, immovable, steady, to be spinning? Our plane does not move, there is no rotation brother. And anyone can verify this, all they have to do is get to an open area, the beach for example and try to feel the rotation, because there is none. And anyone can try it at night on a clear sky and what you will see is the rotation of the dots of light that we call stars, projected in the dome. It’s all an illusion. You even have the pole “star” that is exactly above the north pole, and it does not move because it is exactly above the center point of our earth plane.By the way, the earth is a realm, the realm of the Heart. It is the dots of light that rotate, we call them constellations, not our plane.

“photographs of the Earth”? You just got to be joking with me brother. Are you? All the “photos” NASA provide is composites, and CGI, it’s all fake, everything, whether it is Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, whatever. They can’t even provide one single true photo of our creation, it’s all composites, and you can google the divergences between the photos through out the years, with different lights in oceans, forest, deserts, even different sizes of the continents. How ludicrous can this get? It is not possible to get a full picture of our realm, and I tell you why, it is because of the dome, we can’t get enough altitude to fully capture our amazing creation.

Satellites only work because it is FLAT, it is not the other way around. Satellites would never work on a globe because it would have to take on account something magical called gravity, which does not exist.

And Satellites cannot go beyond the dome, it is not possible, the same with humans or any objects with physicality, nothing goes beyond the dome.Peace my human brother.

da da: All you make are assertions, and ridiculous ones at that. You say that geodetic surveyors cannot measure the curve because it does not exist, and yet they do so, every working day of their lives, and prove you wrong.

You say that all photographs of the Earth from space are CGI, composites, fakes, and yet you offer no evidence whatsoever.

You say that satellites work on a flat Earth, with no explanation of what would keep them moving above such a flat Earth.

And as far as the sun is concerned? You're simply wrong. Anyone who has gone out and measured the length of a shadow at sunset knows that the Earth cannot be flat. Anyone who's used triangulation to measure the distance to the sun with the assumption of a flat plane knows the Earth cannot be flat. And anyone who's performed the most basic experiments with gravity knows it to be real, your ad hominem against Sir Isaac notwithstanding.

In short, it is you who is believing, and promulgating, a lie, and I will not publish any more of your comments if you have nothing of more substance to offer.

And, while you are at it, offered on posts to which it is actually on-topic.

Why there is always an all knowing noggin, the complete oracle of truth, another human as filled with the same propensity for error and subject to influences which have propelled them to a lofty position of an unerring, holier than thou miracle of humanity which could never possibly answer or have considered every possible variable, condition, deception, false claim, junk science and determine that there is a good amount of science fiction within science? Denying even what is known about humans, agendas and the inherent fallibility with the fact of dishonesty and lies using a 0% probability model especially when involving the lust for money, fame and all else is an indicator of someone who has been deceived, deceived themselves and is in denial of reality. Of course, decieving others is a part of protecting the ridiculous arrogance and narcissistic tendencies, and when confronted with their own brand kick it into high gear to the point of utter insanity, inbecility with the belief it will be accepted with accolades and applause. So many times in reading both claims and responses in the brief examination of this blog have encountered the absence of evidence overlooked by you or unknown concerning real world professionals from backgrounds in the military and sensitive areas of the MIC,DARPA,R&D for things so over your perview and realm of perception which makes the globe an impossibility. The reality of just one of these technologies such as line of sight or visual radar which relies on and can show a target over 50 nautical miles would be impossible on a sphere, do your own calculations over that distance to show how many thousand feet below the non-existent curve the target would be. Not counting the humans involved in the several disiplines and areas you have zero knowledge of that exist you are exhibiting the impossibility of reason which is your religion as you correct those who have discernment, an affinity to distinguish truth from the grand deception you are spreading as truth and reality either as a shill or as a mindless idiot incapable of the reality of truth. Either are wrong, serve no good purpose.

Gravity is a theory, a spell, it does not exist, and Mr. Gravity Newton was well aware of that, he was a freemasonic zionist agent.There is only density and subtlety, what is dense gains weight because of the aggregation of molecules and it falls, what is subtle will float, like gases, like vapor. Water is the perfect example as it has the three properties, liquid, solid and vapor.Water is always leveled, it does not bend, it will never adhere to a Baal/sphere/globe.What is allowing water to stay in our plane/realm is a ring of ice, a wall of ice that covers our realm, and they want us to think that Antarctica is a continent.So I will say again, Antarctica is not a continent, it's a ring of ice that covers our realm.Earth is a realm, the realm of the Heart.Prepare yourselves because flat earth is not going away, it's here to stay, because the truth can't stay hidden forever.Most of what we have been told in school is a lie.Investigate and you will find lies upon lies, especially from mainstream "scientists" and "brainiacs" like Newton, Copernicus, Kepler, Darwin or Einstein, these guys were Zionist/freemasonic agents.

Right on, this is why all the Astronauts are Masons, lying all day Everyday. When the teacher was going to moon , rocket blew up. Every thing is Triangleation and cell towers, why plane disappeared never to be seen . God don't lie, only man, sinful nature and

Are people really this uneducated? And this gullible? No, not all astronauts are or were Masons. You call them liars with no evidence whatsoever. No, the teacher who died, Christa McAuliffe, who happened to have been from the state I live in, was not going to the moon when Challenger exploded.

By "everything is triangelation [sic] and cell towers," I assume you mean things like GPS and satellite TV, and somehow you think this is why we can't find missing planes. Again, you are just showing your ignorance.

And, again, will someone please come along and comment on the actual topic of a blog post for once?

" Operation High Jump " Rear Admiral Richard Evelyn Byrd, Jr., USN is a good point of research for both Heliocentric & FES debates, also covered in "Worlds Beyond the Poles ". Recorded video on YT of his statement on live broadcast from that time. Its obvious that the USN was sent to exlpore more and Byrds shocking discovery ! Who's Right & Who's Wrong ? ...Simple, Go Explore !!

Reading the preface to that tome was enough to convince me that reading it would be a waste of my time. I see only speculation and misinterpretation. 37,000 people visit Antartica each year. It's a continent, at the southern-most part of the globe. Get over it.

If you are so convinced, explore it yourself. There are abundant opportunities if you look for them, to travel to one side of the continent, hop a flight across, and depart from a completely different side of the continent, something that would be impossible if Antarctica was in ice ring.

Absolutely! Guided controlled flights. Explore...meaning by foot, beyond the barrier of subzero temps and turbulent winds. If you are a Heliocentric you wil find your Blue Marble and if you are a FES you will find the edge and fall off or an unclimable ICE wall. So explore it must be...I Agree ! The Truth will not have to be told but it will be Known ! Millions of people Worldwide Should Make the Journey !! EXPLORE It Will Be !!! :)

I think what people are missing on both sides of the debate is the "Continuum "....thats the secret to be Discovered ? Millions all at Once Should Make the Journey with Their Smart Phones !!! .. oh..no cell service...I forgot... : )

Gordon, one last thing. " Time " All we have in this particular construct of water, land, and ice is just that. I , like you ,have researched and sifted all the dialog of the round/flat debate. And the debate has no end due to the lack of insight to Explore beyond the Box in peoples minds programmed from birth and beyond.The gatekeepers have done a very fine job to create the Illusions so the debates will continue to be futile by design. However, if Humanity Unites and head in Mass numbers both North or South and get past either of the Two Barriers they will find the Truth.And we all know who we will meet 1st ...International Forces.. Land,Sea, & Air. They are Guarding it for A " Reason " : )

Good grief, that's a lot of word salad. It doesn't take millions traveling to the South Pole. I can tell the world is a globe by watching the sun and the moon, as did ancient Greeks long before man discovered the South Pole. If you want to go, then go. You don't need to go as a tourist; go as a worker. Join an expedition.

And as far as the "gatekeepers" are concerned, can you honestly tell me that if you flew from Chile to the Antarctica, took a supply plane across Antarctica, and then took another flight from Antartica to Australia, that you wouldn't honestly be able to tell if you'd visited a continent or a 75,000 mile ice ring?

All Flights out of Antartica are East/West or proposed NE/NW .Unable to find scheduled flights South of Antarticas proposed South Pole region ? Only USNAF & other International Military complexes has those routes ?

Good Question though ... Cheers !!Oh, and Proposed North Pole Needs same Approach of Exploration.

Hi Gordon - Im weighing in with my more than overvalued 2 cents' worth simply because I see where claims are met with counter claims with nothing to move the conversation forward. I am ex-Air Force, and found the following interview very helpful and something to which I could relate:https://www.facebook.com/piphd/videos/10153385623383073/

Its an interview with a couple of Navy Sub Captain and a flight instructor amongst others

Don Man, this is not evidence. I could only listen to bits of this as I have much better things to do with my life. When the guy from the sub (a captain? Well, maybe) is talking about trimming the ship, he is showing a profound ignorance of the physics involved. Again, Earth is big. Depth, like altitude, is relative to the center of the Earth. If the sub is maintaining a constant depth, it will naturally follow the curve without anyone being aware of it.

I notice that Sargent has not interviewed anyone who mans a periscope to find out how far they can see; a periscope operator will know the precise distance to the horizon for a given height of lens above water, something that only makes any sense on a curved surface.

In short, Sargent is cherry-picking, and despite all he says about the 12-minute video the guy sent, I still see no definitive proof that any of these people are who they say they are. Mark Sargent has been manipulating the flat-Earth narrative for a couple of years now. It's a money-maker and a reputation-maker for him. The truth has nothing to do with it.

And, again, please post comments to blog articles for which they are actually relevant.

Gordon the earth IS FLAT. research it! And by "research it", I mean, go to www dot YouTube dot com and watch dubay and morgile and jeranism videos until your ears bleed. And if you still don't believe, then watch some odd TV or some bonocci(?) Videos. It's all right there! Just research it man. I've researched it for a long time now, and I can quote those guys left and right, to disproved any argument you put forward!

BTW I'd love for you to contact me directly, I'm not sure if I will get notified if replied to? Anyway great work you're doing here. I love to come laugh at all the stupid ball earthers making idiotic ball earth arguments

(First comment ever on blogger as you might have guessed, now that I see the "notify me" option)

If you read the whole post, I acknowledge that Gleason believed the Earth to be flat. This does not make this a flat-Earth map, however, and any attempt to show that it represents the true form of Earth fails miserably.

I don't know why you people even bother to show up. You just keep saying the same stupid things over and over, and you never have anything to add to the topic at hand.

Use my senses? Of course I use my senses. My sense of sight told me from the first moment I saw the flat Earth "model" that the sun would never set on such a model. "Perspective," the flatheads cry, not having even the slightest clue how perspective works and why artists had to invent it. That, of course, led me to the math, because perspective is just geometry at its heart, and the math told me that my first impression was completely right.

No, cry the flatheads, you don't understand perspective, it's a special kind of perspective, or some version of perspective that no one else has figure out.

Just more stupid excuses.

And I feel so bad for Robert Simmon, who did something wonderful, and for his efforts gets quote-mined by ignorant flat-Earthers.

Good grief, I had no idea there were so many flat heads out there. This is absurd. Of course, if we were really honest, scientists have no one to blame for this but themselves. After all, when arrogant and snide folks like Bill Nye and Richard Dawkins are your spokesmen, I imagine it doesn't take much for some people to want to see it wearing a black eye. Still though, a flat earth? Really?

These guys remind me of the Ancient Aliens folks in that the moment they find something they can't explain without a little painstaking and time consuming research, they immediately chalk it up to their pet theory (in this case the theory being a flat earth). Can't explain why there are so few flights over the Indian and Pacific Oceans that are monitored? Must be a flat earth, because can't possibly be the fact that building and maintaining monitoring stations out at sea are a prohibitive cost to profit driven airlines. No, must be aliens did it. Ridiculous. Just ridiculous.

But do you know what that point is? How far away would the sun have to be to vanish? How far above the horizon would it appear to be? There is a geometry to all this and it simply makes sunset, as we see it, impossible on any flat-Earth model.

Do I don't have the exact distance that it vanishes, and you are correct that geometry for a globe doesn't work on our flat earth. A lot of measurements and math equations don't fit our flat earth when you start the equations using the globes said measurements. I'm sure you will admit that the sun will eventually vanish out of site at a certain distance! If you understand the concept of flat earth models. The sun appears to set but it's just moving away far enough to be not visible beyond the horizon, doesn't need to set over the entire plane at once. Any other way I can help you understand how our flat earth works, I don't know everything but I know enough.

The geometry I'm applying assumes a flat plane, and it doesn't stand up. The sun would vanish without ever setting, because the sun is 108 times its diameter in altitude. That's not "globe geometry," that's just geometry. The principle of angular size. Something that can easily be tested with readily-accessible camera equipment.

It's not that I don't understand how a flat Earth would work, it's that it simply doesn't.

The giant sun is a heliocentric idea, the actual flat earth sun is smaller than the earth, thats why the sun gives the appearance of setting on our flat earth it travels past the point of converge which appears or "disappears" below the horizon.

You really don't pay attention, like all flat-Earthers. I made these calculations based on a flat plane and a close sun. But the sun is still 108 times its diameter in altitude. With an angular size of approximately 0.53 degrees, there is no getting around this. If the sun is 30 miles in diameter, then it's about 3250 miles above the plane. Such a sun would never set; its visual distance above the horizon would always vastly exceed its visual size, and so it would just vanish in the sky.

Eventually. But if the sun were, in fact, 30 miles in diameter, it would be visible, to the unaided eye, from at least 57,000 miles away. There is no place on Earth that is 57,000 miles away from another place on Earth.

And don't come back with the infinite plane idea. I know that when the sun is low in the evening sky in the Florida Keys, it's directly overhead in Hawaii, just 5000 miles away.

All of the flat-Earth talk about the sun setting due to perspective is a long series of lame excuses, and nothing more.

1 I never said I believe the sun is 30 miles in diameter, 2 to think the human eye would be able to see 57,000 miles away is awful arrogant, 3 I rely on experimentation and observation, not just mathematics, you know like actual science. You will never be able show bodies of water curving, it's impossible, and you will never be able to show or prove to the rotation and movement of earth no one ever has because we are stationary.

I was using 30 miles as an example, and it's a common flat-Earth claim.

Why would the human eye NOT be able to see 57,000 miles? The limits of human vision are based on there being sufficient light and apparent size, not distance. These are things that can and have been tested experimentally over and over.

And so, failing to justify your position on sunsets, you change the subject in typical flat-Earth fashion, and claim that we can't show bodies of water curving (we can, that one is actually really easy) or proving rotation of the Earth (a bit harder, but done and done).

In other words, you have no evidence to offer, just bald claims and flat-Earth excuses. Unless you have anything more, this is the last comment I will publish from you, since the whole thread is completely OFF TOPIC. At least you could have commented on (or indeed actually read) the post entitled "Sunrise, Sunset."

Gordon you are a very patient man. I am absolutely fascinated by people like flatearthers and anti vaxxers that take it upon themselfs to contradict the entire body of science without any research or testing on the field.Not one picture or video but still choose to believe the unbelievable on some guy word. The arrogance of people that think that they are better then the greatest scientist this world have produced for centuries his unbelievable. I read some comments and it's obvious that you are visited mostly by people that would even consider that the earth his flat.Take courage in knowing that 99.99999% of people on this sphere understand that this his not even a question they feel a need to ask. You are basically in the buisness of curing mental illness. These people need tools like critical thinking and very basic 5th grade scientific knowledge. Most of them don't need explaining they need prescriptions.

I was recording sun set Feb 13 2016 at5:30 pm searching for "planet x"but caught some strange anomalies then saw what I thought was a fire ball or something only to catch several, it scared me my heart was pumping fast, I thought the end was up, I showed my brother because he was very religious catholic and was spokesman for showing how banks and governments are operating against the human race, when he watched the video he was amazed but not alarmed when he then told me about flat earth, I had seen the u tube blog and thought it was weird and paid no attention, but after he showed me on a paper plate I decided to research it, I was basically convinced half hour of watching this long documentary, but I had to be totally sure, and I had searched video after video day after day weekends,it took me to the nasa cult to the government's, "science "the banker's, the vatican which has the most telescope observations in the world and also took me to the Holy Bible, I'm pretty sure that you have not been researching everything,it's a control of your, our,everyone's lives it's all about deception ,but back to these fire balls nothing came down to earth, there was one video I was watching, it was about these science guy's filming an eclipse and there was invisible orbs that cause eclipses and I noticed that the orbs lined up with the fire balls I caught on video, I must say that I was lucky enough to catch it, the sun had reflected off these orbs for a brief few minutes, so with all the research I've done I'm quite convinced that the earth is Flat, hope you post my comment, if not then I'll know who you are working for.

Serious about what,if you want to believe that you live on a spinning earth that is totally fine, but you should do your own research something may change your mind, and if you read the Holy Bible you'll see it in scriptures that it's the sun,moon,stars, and the wandering stars aka planets are circling above us, the circuit of our earth,read the KJV for yourself, the Holy Bible is not a religion.I'll try to send a picture of sun in the clouds and I have to say does not look like it's far away.I'm not computer savvy but will try sending pictures.

You are serious? Do my research? Have you not read the rest of this blog? You really think I care what the KJV has to say about this? Are there really people out in the world who are this ignorant that they evaluate the world around them outside the context of an ancient book? This is truly sad.

If the "Flat Earth" people REALLY wanted to PROVE (fairly easily) that the Earth is flat, all they have to do is pick two (or more) locations on Earth as far apart as possible (and maybe some in between) where they can both/all see The Moon at the same time, and bounce a laser off the Moon AT THE SAME TIME and calculate the time it takes to see the reflection. (bounce back) If the Earth is flat (and some think the Moon is, too), you can use "simple" trigonometry to calculate the distances and PROVE that the Earth is flat. OR, you will prove it is not flat. That's the most simple, scientific test anyone can do with some accuracy. (it would also prove if the Moon is only several tens or hundreds or 250,000 miles away, (and its diameter) as well) My guess is no Flat Earthers will EVER attempt to do this simple scientific experiment. (if Non-Flat Earthers do it, they will just claim you lied about the times and results and such)

Well, I don't know how simple it is. Especially for flat-Earthers who seem determined to misunderstand as much about lasers as possible. On the other hand, there are simpler experiments with the moon that take much less expensive equipment. Or none at all.

If we have people at two distant places, one in the Northern Hemisphere and one in the Southern, who can see the moon at the same time, they would be able to see different parts of the moon (if the moon were close) instead of just a flipped view of the same face.

While they are at it, they can take a photograph (a long lens helps though it's not absolutely needed) of a full moon at midnight and then near moonset and compare the pixel width of the two images. A close moon would be considerably larger at midnight. A far moon would be nearly the same diameter in the picture.

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I should mention that one of the books you can reed for free is mine. Hint.

A fascinating read on the history of the flat-Earth idea:

About Comments

After a year and a half of fielding comments on this blog, I have decided that I will no longer allow comments. There has been little added to the discussion by the comments on most posts. The exceptions, and there have been some, will be incorporated when I migrate the explanatory posts to a new website sometime in the coming year.

For the most part, though, there have been comments which were not even worth the time to read before deleting them. And so I'm just not going to spend the time. Anyone can, with a small amount of effect, find an email address at which to contact me if the need should arise.

"What I truly hate is the fact that there is such a large segment of society, so lacking in both education and imagination, that they cannot fathom a world unfettered by their limited knowledge and vision, and by their paranoid fantasies.

"What's more depressing is that these people consider themselves the enlightened members of society, and are willing—quick, in fact—to demean and insult the most brilliant minds in human history to make themselves feel worthwhile."