A BLM fire closure of the entire Sycamore Canyon and Marron Valley Area will be conducting within the next two weeks. Recreational Shooting will not be allowed due to the numerous fires started by recreational shooting in the area. Please take note and plan accordingly. Once the closure is in effect there will be a zero tolerance policy for recreational shooting. You will be cited! Signs and the closure order will be posted in accordance with federal regulations.

Inquiring minds want to know. I sent an email to the Palm Springs office, asking about closures and such in the Marron Valley area and as of Thursday, there were none. I saw brush rigs this morning, but they were headed further south. I'm glad I got to shoot today though.

Do you mean this particular ban? If so I would say till the end of fire season and if we get a good drought going it will be for a while...
I would like proof that it is legal shooting related, not well the house has electrical and no one was standing there with a can of gas so the fire must have been an electrical short...
Not the well we found shell casings so it was from someone shooting.

I am not surprised. Last two times I have been down to Dulzura:
1) Fire started by someone @ 9AM on a weekend, immediately drew helicopters and fire engines. I was lucky to get out of there with all the inbound traffic, probably a dozen trucks driving down the 1-lane dirt road.
2) Different weekend, a different area recently burned to a crisp immediately next to the shooting spot. The only man made items to survive the blaze would be empty shells.

Now, it's probably not due to someone shooting surplus ammo from his brand new Mosin and causing a spark. It's most likely the shooter or one of his guests tossing a cigarette butt into the grass.

There are plenty of dirt bikes and 4x4s down there as well, but they seem to be busy driving.

Hi, thank you for contacting us with your question; we appreciate your desire to locate legal and appropriate places for recreational shooting, and we appreciate your asking about fire closures. As far as I am aware at this time, there are no BLM lands in that area under fire season closures or any other unusual or seasonal closures. However, since conditions can change swiftly, and we in the Front Office don’t always get notified of those changes, I am including my Chief Area Ranger and my Fire Management Officer on this email, so that if they know of anything I don’t, they can also respond.

As you are doubtless already aware, shooting is generally permitted on BLM managed lands, as long as such activity is also permitted in that location by State and local laws, and as long as the safety regulations noted below are observed. All federal, state, and county regulations that apply to shooting apply to public lands.

Please keep in mind the following guidelines:

* Just because an area is BLM land, that doesn’t mean it is safe or appropriate to shoot there. Shooting is prohibited within one mile of all campgrounds and developed recreation sites; within 150 yards of any man-made structure, or within 100 yards of any roadway. Since it is prohibited to drive that far off of existing roads, you must be prepared to safely hike to your shooting location. The requirements to be at least this far away from locations where your bullets could be hazardous to others makes many BLM areas unsuitable for shooting.
* When shooting, always select a safe location with a backstop. An area with a hillside directly behind the target is ideal. Avoid popular recreation areas and sensitive wildlife habitats. Do not attach your targets to living plants or place targets up against rocks, plants, or solid objects.
* Always pick up and remove targets, empty shells, plastic shotgun wads and any other debris after you have finished. You can be cited for littering if you leave any debris; for this reason, in the desert region, you are advised not to use clay pigeons as targets. Even the so-called “biodegradable” clay of the targets is considered litter as it remains indefinitely in the dry, fragile landscape of the desert.
* Use of paintball equipment and projectiles is not permitted on BLM-managed lands. The paint is considered similar to the clay used for skeet targets, and you can be cited for defacing public property with it.
* Use of plastic pellets is not permitted on BLM-managed lands.
* Shooting should only take place in areas well away from other concentrations of people and property. Do not shoot in the direction of any road, hiking trail or parking area.
• Vehicles are restricted to designated routes of travel as posted and as shown on BLM maps. Vehicles are prohibited in all wilderness areas.

It is illegal to:
* shoot from or on a public road or highway or from a motor vehicle.
* shoot within 150 yards of a home, barn, outbuilding, motor home, camper, or any inhabited area or roadway.
* use glass bottles, appliances, and other refuse as targets.

There are currently no maps online or in electronic form that show sufficient detail so you could accurately determine appropriate locations for shooting. However, BLM sells maps known as Surface Management Status maps (in this area they are also called Desert Access Guides). While these maps do not show specific locations for shooting, they do show, by color-coding, where BLM lands are, so you can use these maps to make sure you are not on privately owned lands. View an index of the maps at the following URL to determine which maps you want to purchase: http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/iac/Northern_Map.html <http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/iac/Northern_Map.html> . You may order them by phone from the State Office Public Room in Sacramento, (916) 978-4401. They are also for sale in each of the field offices. They show public and private land ownership, and are at a scale of about one inch to the mile.

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subject = BLM closure question
FeedbackType = General Question
request_comment = Good morning, I was just wondering if there are any closures expected, or, if an area is closed due to fire danger. I'm considering doing some target shooting in the area south/southwest of Dulzura, CA, and would like it if I could get some information prior to heading out that way.

Thanks for the update sofbak. I was heading up there next week. Doesn't seem as if many others are aware of it either.
Once more shooters become aware, I almost feel sorry for the blm as I am sure they will be swamped with calls of protest......ya right...
Knowing that the blm is the border p's lapdog, my suspicious nature tells me they were looking for an excuse to shut off the area to shooting. Wanna bet they take their time to reopoen it once "fire season" is over? Remember Orozco ridge..

its not FUD, I went yesterday and talked to a ranger who said closed until after fire season, his guess was December. he also said his boss wants to close it for good, so write your congressman. btw, closed to the public, not just shooting. he called it "unprecedented".

__________________
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

..... my suspicious nature tells me they were looking for an excuse to shut off the area to shooting. Wanna bet they take their time to reopoen it once "fire season" is over? Remember Orozco ridge..

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmo43

its not FUD, I went yesterday and talked to a ranger who said closed until after fire season, his guess was December. he also said his boss wants to close it for good, so write your congressman. btw, closed to the public, not just shooting. he called it "unprecedented".

I'm afraid you guys are probably right here. I have never been up there (was planning on a first trip in August), but have read several posts about the damage done, debris left behind by irresponsible shooters, and a couple of fires in the area (steel jacketed surplus ammo?). I have also taken note of Ranger Funk's proactive stance on protecting a piece of land that he obviously cares about.

Given all of that, it wouldn't surprise me if the area were permanently closed to prevent any more damage. I can't argue with the fire danger and a seaonsal closure, but WRT to stewardship of the land, it appears that a few "bad apples" may have ruined it for everyone.

For now, I would wait and see what happens, and if the closure appears to be permanent, then a CalGunners "campaign" to not only reopen the land, but also to pledge to help the BLM manage and maintain it may be the only hope to get it back. Joining with Funk as an organized group to protect it as his ally would be a lot more productive than arguing with the BLM-especially in consideration of what has already happened.

I'm afraid you guys are probably right here. I have never been up there (was planning on a first trip in August), but have read several posts about the damage done, debris left behind by irresponsible shooters, and a couple of fires in the area (steel jacketed surplus ammo?). I have also taken note of Ranger Funk's proactive stance on protecting a piece of land that he obviously cares about.

Given all of that, it wouldn't surprise me if the area were permanently closed to prevent any more damage. I can't argue with the fire danger and a seaonsal closure, but WRT to stewardship of the land, it appears that a few "bad apples" may have ruined it for everyone.

For now, I would wait and see what happens, and if the closure appears to be permanent, then a CalGunners "campaign" to not only reopen the land, but also to pledge to help the BLM manage and maintain it may be the only hope to get it back. Joining with Funk as an organized group to protect it as his ally would be a lot more productive than arguing with the BLM-especially in consideration of what has already happened.

Brass, if you can get blm to answer your questions that would be great (IF not impossible) They are the most inept public service dept I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with.
Plz keep us posted if you're successful.
thx

The extension of the previous DFG closure @ Sycamore Cyn. appears to have been superceded and now includes the area around Little Tecate Pk and other federal land around Otay Mountain.

I had difficulty finding information about PERMITTED activities that are still allowed under 43 CFR 9212.2

- Is hiking permitted?

- Is possession of a firearm while engaged in lawful hunting (i.e. per DFG & possession of a hunting license) permitted?

- Is traversing through the closed area(s) to reach areas unaffected by the Fire Prevention Order permitted?

- Does BLM or DFG have a detailed Fire Report or Fire Risk Environmental Assessment on file and available to the public for the area(s) affected by this closure?

- If yes, where is this report or information available and is the authorship and provenance included with the report?

- If no, does the order provide for FOIA requests to data that were used by BLM to support the declaration of the closure order?

- Under what criteria (measureable, time-specific) will the order be lifted or modified?

- By whom and under what process?

A word to the wise and all others on this. You will catch far more flies with honey than you will with vinegar. If you choose to contact the BLM seeking more information on this, please, please be courteous, respectful, and empathic to the overall situation with the land in question.

Whether as an individual or a group, presenting a contentious air or a position of self-righteous indignation over this event will only hurt the shooting community. It is, afterall, their job to manage that land, and theirs are the opinions and the decisions that counts the most. Our challenge is to align ourselves with their concerns, and take an active role as part of the solution.

I was planning on contacting them later this week to see what we as an organized group of calgunners might do with that goal in mind, and if they would even be amenable to considering some volunteer help from our community. If someone gets there before me, that's OK too, just please mind your p' and q's, and don't drop a turd in the punch bowl

And by all means if someone has communication with them, please post that here....

A word to the wise and all others on this. You will catch far more flies with honey than you will with vinegar. If you choose to contact the BLM seeking more information on this, please, please be courteous, respectful, and empathic to the overall situation with the land in question.

Whether as an individual or a group, presenting a contentious air or a position of self-righteous indignation over this event will only hurt the shooting community. It is, afterall, their job to manage that land, and theirs are the opinions and the decisions that counts the most. Our challenge is to align ourselves with their concerns, and take an active role as part of the solution.

I was planning on contacting them later this week to see what we as an organized group of calgunners might do with that goal in mind, and if they would even be amenable to considering some volunteer help from our community. If someone gets there before me, that's OK too, just please mind your p' and q's, and don't drop a turd in the punch bowl

And by all means if someone has communication with them, please post that here....

TIA

I Agree. I received a PM from the Acting Chief Law Enforcement Ranger (OP), after I posted my email reply from the Palm Springs Office. He posted here as a courtesy so the closures wouldn't come as a surprise (coincidentally after I queried the office). I too feel a coordinated effort among our collective selves to assist in managing this area would probably go much farther in re-opening it once the fire danger has cleared.

Update: I also spoke with Scott Kotlowski and can tell you he's a professional, polite, and willing to provide a great deal of information to you. Basically, the closure is based on a Fire Risk Assessment that is handled by the office of Nikki Washington (1-760-833-7110) and locally by Clay Howe at 1-858-676-0894.

Thanks for the update, Brass. Anybody know where the local office is so we can introduce ourselves to Agent Funk and let him/them know we're on his/their side? I'd like to help any effort to steward the area for ourselves and future users of the land.

If any of you happen to get into a discussion with BLM personnel about "shooters" leaving trash and posting targets on trees, ask how many citations they've issued over the years regarding these issues.
I brought this up when I was fighting to reopen Kitchen Creek a few years back. Their response?..None...
As usual my Spidy sense tells me they didn't discourage this behavior by enforcement for some not so hidden agenda.....

If any of you happen to get into a discussion with BLM personnel about "shooters" leaving trash and posting targets on trees, ask how many citations they've issued over the years regarding these issues.
I brought this up when I was fighting to reopen Kitchen Creek a few years back. Their response?..None...
As usual my Spidy sense tells me they didn't discourage this behavior by enforcement for some not so hidden agenda.....

I know of at least one shooter who got ticketed for drilling holes in a tree (it wasn't me). But the number of citations issued seems moot, there's no argument that a lot of damage has occured out there, and a lot of debris left behind as well.

As I have tried to point out here, "fighting" to get it reopened is probably not the best approach for a success oriented campaign. How long did it take to get Kitchen Creek reopened after your "fight"?

Not so moot when you think that the trash and tree shooting (without much enforcement)has been their main issues up till the fire(s) . Not to mention their apparent not checking for steel core ammo being used. One would think they'd stepped up enforcement rather than let it happen and then complain about it.

Kitchen creek was a one man battle. As usual I couldnt get any others who wanted to shoot in the area interested in making an attempt to get it reopened. And if you don't think trying to change the mind set of bureaucrates (sp) isn't a "fight" I suggest you prepare yourself for one when you decide to enter the fray.

Did your contact with BLM say anything about a specific month or rainfall amount that has to occur prior to reopening? I havent seen the area to see how much was burned (anybody?) but I'd think that now, since it has burned, there shouldn't be much to worry catching fire until it grows back.??

I was out there almost two weeks ago, right after the burn. Fire marshall came out and tested ammo with a magnet. We had already seen the charred wood from something or other before he arrived. We showed it to him to let him know it wasn't us, as it was cold. He told us that he had actually seen someone shooting tannerite at our shooting site, "right in front of him." For whatever that's worth. Went out today and everything was locked up and/or posted.

Carrizo creek is much more heavily posted on the East side too, so much so, that it seems basically shut down completely.

I was out there almost two weeks ago, right after the burn. Fire marshall came out and tested ammo with a magnet. We had already seen the charred wood from something or other before he arrived. We showed it to him to let him know it wasn't us, as it was cold. He told us that he had actually seen someone shooting tannerite at our shooting site, "right in front of him." For whatever that's worth. Went out today and everything was locked up and/or posted.

Carrizo creek is much more heavily posted on the East side too, so much so, that it seems basically shut down completely.

Ended up at P2K today to do some sighting in...

Well, at least we got to go once before the closure. I had a freaking blast.

Trying to find a good place to shoot seems so frustrating sometimes. Was really looking forward to this weekend, too.

Only place now is the desert. About a 2 hour drive to find a nice spot away from civilization.

Would you please, please STFU about public acces shooting locations!!!

It is a know fact here that when a location is identified in a public forum such as this, it is only a matter of time before irresponsilbe web surfers find it, and then what happens?

A case in point is the current closures in Dulzura/Marron Valley/Sycmamore canyon. In november of 2010, some MORON published directions to these locations, and thus the decline and subsequent CLOSURE of the area was set in motion. Here is it right here:

So now what? Since this area has been closed, do think it's possible that these trash-tards might start caravaning out to ### ##. looking for the next spot to trash for their personal enjoyment and total disregard of others? How about this **** ****** location? Think people will be looking for that as well?

If you have a spot:

1. Use it with good stewardship so that others who know can enjoy it also.
2. Share it with trusted friends with similar qualities of responsibility
3. DO NOT, DO NOT publish any information about it in a publicly accessed internet forum!!!!!