Defense Experts Will Take Another Look

Court documents filed on Tuesday show that the defense experts will have a second chance to examine what is being referred to as key evidence. The lone hair and coffin flies found in Casey Anthony’s trunk will be re-examined by Dr. Tim Huntington. He is one of the experts for the defense team who first reviewed the evidence in July at the Orlando County Sheriff’s Office. Huntington said this is the second step in the process.
As expected in the agreement, defense lawyers agreed to waive any claims about the chain of custody during the process of transport or examinations. If any evidence is damaged or destroyed, the State will still be allowed to present the testimony of their experts to the jury.
Considering the value and friability of the lone hair, I can understand the State’s concern. This is key to their claim that Caylee was in Casey’s car trunk and she drove the car with Caylee’s body in the trunk for an undetermined amount of days.
I don’t have a huge problem with the “lone hair” being found but what concerns me is that the jury has to believe that Casey did such a good job at cleaning the trunk, that only one hair was left behind when there were in fact several other hairs that were found that didn’t belong to Caylee or Casey. What are the chances that Casey was able to remove all but one of Caylee’s hairs since the trunk is said to have been thoroughly cleaned? When I think of one hair, I think it’s more likely a clothing transfer than a dead body physically being in the trunk. For instance the person who was either very near the body or had contact with the body may have picked up a hair on their clothing which found it’s way to the trunk; raises the next question; who besides Casey came near her trunk? It doesn’t exactly rule her out but it doesn’t rule out anyone else who opened her trunk either. I’m thinking this as a way to explain why there isn’t any DNA in the trunk along with this lone death-banded hair. As far as the testing itself, I’ve read there’s usually more than one hair to compare when they do an analysis.

For the amount of days Caylee was in the trunk, I suspect the State experts will calculate this by the unknown odor which the State claims is human decomposition. It’s been reported through documents from the Tennessee Body Farm, the odor value is 2.6 days. This may be hard for the State to prove because this science is still in its early stage and has never been used as evidence in a court of law. I would expect the State experts will use the coffin fly development as a gauge because they may have more value.

In another development, defense attorney Cheney Mason says the duct tape was not placed over Caylee’s mouth as it’s been claimed. I was shocked by this statement.
Of course, the investigators, Dr. Garavaglia and Roy Kronk disagree. They say yes, the duct tape was clearly found over Caylee’s mouth when her remains were found on Suburban Drive. There are photographs taken of the body to prove their statement. I imagine they will still contend the duct tape was the murder weapon which I still find peculiar too.
True, Dr. Garavaglia does explain the duct tape placement in her autopsy report but does not specify Caylee’s exact cause of death. She says homicide due to circumstances. In this report she also noted that there were “no visible signs of soft tissue” on the duct tape which could indicate no skin cells. I think this is impossible when it’s duct tape. Duct tape has been known to preserve fingerprints for years even underwater in some murder cases. Duct tape is a forensic scientist’s favorite type of evidence to examine.
Attorney Richard Hornsby of WESH did make this statement. He said, “you expect some soft tissue” beneath or stuck to the tape. He added that this finding may give Anthony some wiggle room. I don’t believe he thinks this will exonerate Casey Anthony, but possibly be grounds to lessen the charge. In my perspective, if the State can’t prove a murder was committed then they should have charged her with something possibly, easier to prove, felony child neglect. I wonder if the State loses, will they be able to later try her on another offense.

124 Comments:

I can see how KC could continue to lie against all reason and for no reason (I was a devious teenager), but all these other things seem to add up to huge piles of separate stuff. I can’t see how in the world it could all fit together unless there are some other liars out there too.

I want to point out a couple of things. It was George and Cindy that cleaned the trunk out. I don’t think we know how much evidence was taken out of the trunk or destroyed by chemicals they used. I also want to point out that The Body Farm is not a relatively new science. They started working with the cadavers and chemical make up 25 years ago. They have been called upon by LE and FBI but have never appeared in a court setting yet. Their work in chemical breakdowns during decomposition is nothing less than amazing.

Back to transfer; There should have been hair from Casey and Caylee all over that car including the trunk when LE took possession of the car. LE comes up with a lone hair, enter Dr Lee that claims to find a bunch more that were missed. Which conspiracy to believe in?

damagdpet,
I don’t believe in any conspiracy?? I don’t believe Dr. Lee purposely dropped extra hairs in the trunk, if that’s was you mean?? The hairs were simply overlooked by LE. I would think Dr. Lee just happens to have a good eye for finding hairs. It’s his expertise. He could have seen them and ignored them but he didn’t. As far as he knew, it could have more of Caylee’s hair.
Yes, I’ve read G & C cleaned the trunk but we don’t know if Casey did too. If she’s as evil and diabolical as she’s being depicted, I would imagine she was doing everything in her power to cover her tracks. That’s why I said Casey cleaned the trunk. My point was to say, the trunk was thoroughly cleaned by the Ants ( & KC??), the investigators vacuumed, probed and combed the trunk with a fine tooth comb and still only one hair of Caylee’s is found but several other hairs miraculously survived the clean up. It’s my thought that because there’s no sign of DNA to prove Caylee was in the trunk, MAYBE the hair was deposited there from clothing and not a body.
The smell of decomp?? I find this most perplexing and because of the actions of Cindy&George and LE, I really wonder if they were really convinced that this odor was HUMAN decomp or were they just suspicious?? I think they were suspicious but not sure, this is why.
I know several people including Cindy have said the car smelled like human decomposition “dead body in the damn car”. LE arrives and they also say the car smelled like human decomposition;; :the entire garage reeked: according to Lee.
Now, I’m wondering since EVERYONE is so sure then how can Cindy and George nonchalantly go back to work after finding the car at Amscot and how can LE smell “human decomp” coming from this car, :: Note* in a case of a missing baby:: and still they DON’T tow off the car to the nearest forensic garage ASAP?? The only thing I can surmise from this is LE wasn’t entirely sure either. I believe Det. Yuri Melich was intensely interrogated by the defense on this subject. I’m not sure, I’ll have to find his deposition.
As for the scientific studies on decomp odor, I referred to it as being in the early stage because even after 25yrs of study it isn’t accepted by the court of law unlike touch DNA which has been accepted.
Just my thoughts..Thank you for sharing yours. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle..lol Have a good day. The weather here is lovely.

Thanks myrrh,
And I couldn’t agree with you more. There’s more than one liar in this atrocity and that’s what makes our head spin. If these people would just tell the truth, lol.. OMG!
If I wrote an article listing the names of the witnesses who have stretched the truth in one way or another, needless to say, it would be a long list. 😀

I think it was Krystal Holloway that said she didn’t think ANYbody did right by Caylee. In Lee’s original LE statement, he volunteered how KC did not provide for Caylee financially. Then he gave a glimpse of his parents’ focus the night Caylee was reported missing “my JC Penny’s card,” the cash in the wallet…TL’s roommate (Nate?) said Cindy stated “I hope you’re rich….”; then Lee came back for the computer and wasted time spilling family info about KC stealing from family members…

To me, those things were chilling…Other than Cindy’s insisting that Caylee come home that night, I didn’t see a lot of concern about the baby in the picture painted by those statements.

JB, I did understand that you referred to KC. I want to go back to the simple things…looking at her phone records and the short periods that she was not talking or texting, I can’t find where she would have the time to be involved with drug thugs or time to clean the car. To this day there has not been an explanation of why G&C, knowing what they know, went ahead and cleaned the car. George was terrified at the tow yard because of the smell. Cindy and the hair brush. My point is that there was a lot of tampering with that car before the police got their hands on it. The list on the chain of custody on the car is short. I can’t tie Birch from the tow yard to anything. There should have been finger prints from the two guys that KC claimed pushed the car. No prints and no one has ever come forward. It’s possible the evidence will not make it in because of what I mentioned above.

damagdpets,
I understand now what you meant. I can’t explain why Cindy or George would clean the car and later that night pick up Casey to have her arrested. If they truly wanted to abet her, I think they would have waited a couple of days and got their story straight, before making KC face the police. It’s hard to say what they were thinking at the time. I imagine they were scared and confused. On one hand they are hoping Caylee is with the nanny and on the other hand, they’re wondering if they should have an Amber Alert out for Caylee. It’s a mystery, I can’t figure out.
When I think about Casey having the time to participate in drugs or something else, I feel she did. She was always up early according to her phone records and she left the house with Caylee in tow. She had to go somewhere. Zuben and I had discussed this before and concluded she was mostly in close proximity to Hopespring Dr, but not at the Anthony home. I believe this is where the Brackenwood address came into play.
You said:
PS….The conspiracy thing was a HA-Ha. This is after listening to all of the Cindy tapes. She has several people pegged because it was not possible for KC to have done anything wrong.
———— —————————-
okay, okay..LOL, I’m sorry. It’s just I heard the group @ BS’s were babbling about “conspiracy” because Judge Perry recently granted a few motions for the defense and I thought that’s what you were referring to. 😀 Thanks for clearing it up for me.

Damagdpets, and we do not know as of yet KC’s role. If I am not convinced, yet today..I am
not sure why anyone would think Cindy, her mother, would…as well as.. I am not sure of too many mothers that would be convinced so easily that their daughter murdered their grandchild!!??
I don’t think that Cindy pegged others because it was not possible for Casey to have done anything wrong. She is the one who called the police. Knowing something was wrong and believing Caylee was missing..not murdered..After the fact… I don’t think Cindy was..or is.. any more convinced than I or some others. We have had suspicions of others..we theorize..Why would her mother, of all people, not?

As far as whoever cleaned the car..well who knows ..unless they have had the experience, how they would be reacting..acting..doing…or saying. People react in varied degrees
in many situations…people react differently to the same situation… people can have so many different reactions to the same situation.

I clean when I am angry..scared..frustrated..worried..need to think..etc It is ..and can be theraputic..as
well as instant gratification. I do recognize that maybe not everyone would have reacted that way..But George was supposedly a clean freak with the cars..Their
home in pics also looked very well kept. Maybe all were relatively clean. Maybe George
started cleaning the car out of the same reasons I said I clean..and Cindy began to help.
She washed the clothes..she told LE she did. But regardless of what they may or may
not have been thinking.. be thinking..their reactions could have been variable..depending

For example, a man might get his new suit splashed by a car driving by and he might be angry, indifferent, run home and change… or continue on his journey wet and dirty.

Cognitive theory states that human responses are governed by emotions, which actually cloud our logic ….Our responses to different situations depend on several things. It depends upon the situation at hand, which is known in psychological terms as the stimulus. In this case the stimulus is the car splashing the man.

Learning theory is kind of the reverse side of cognitive theory..Instead of thinking and then carrying out an action, Actions are learned responses that may or may not be thought through. They are learned patterns of response. The stimulus in this situation is the act of being splashed by a car. The response is usually a learned reaction that is repeated over and over again without much thought. In other words, the man may always automatically return home because this is a habit he has formed for just a situation like this one.It also depends on what we have been taught by others or observed in others.

For example, the man in the above mentioned example may have been taught as a child that regardless of the situation, he must never leave the house dirty and therefore he would run home and change even if it meant being late for work or a meeting

Each situation is governed by our personally and our disposition. What kind of personally does the man in this scenario have? Is he a worrier, is he a neat freak, or is he a slob by nature? Does everything generally bother him or does nothing bother him at all?

So all being individual with unique DNA..our psyches..reactions ..personalities..are
also unique DNA..That is one of the reasons I have such difficulty understanding
how people pre judge others with little effort.

I guess what I am trying to say is ..IMO I don’t believe in the simplicity of determining reason of peoples actions and reactions to same or different situations..same or different
people. I also have a hard time with the motive… the simplicity of the reasoning..Casey found a new boyfriend..wanted to party..so she murdered her daughter.Or..Casey was
jealous of her mother’s love for Caylee…I feel that the
case is much more complex…There is nothing simple about the case. The
motive itself without anything else..is worth theorizing..
The simplicity of those that have tried Casey
in the media..the forums..with insufficiency of all the facts… just all seems shallow,
prejudicial, inside the box thinking to me. If it was all so simple..we could do away
with our entire legal system..go back to burning people at the stakes or town hangings
and throw stones..

But it is 2010..we have a legal system..those days are gone..but…the hatred and unjust that lurks
with them seem still to exist.

Sorry Jb..every once in awhile I gotta go there.. Btw VERY good Read!!

Zuben..I just used my little time getting carried away with car cleaning LOL..I will
address some of your questions to me asap. I have been crazy working..mris from the
accident therapy etc..so It has been a busy week already and about to get busier.

I am including a link here..Don’t know if you have read?..This is the info regarding
LA with TG Mark Hawkins ex.(.Casey mentions her and JG in the same sentence in a jail call as untrustworthy)..and her moving to Michigan..which she is the one I followed some..after
the plane incident..at that time the remains had not been discovered..and she was
my only link to Mi.http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5395527/Lee-Anthony-Myspace-Blogging

Good morning all. I must be on a different time zone. Most of the action happens while I’m sleeping. 😉 Thanks for the update with commentary, JB. I’ve read a lot of people saying the As thoroughly cleaned the trunk but I don’t recall anything more being shown than Cindy took some things out to air, washed the slacks and sprayed febreeze. I watched for more to be asked and answered in the depo and wasn’t given any more. The testing didn’t show cleaning fluids from what I read. There was more sign of gasoline than anything, quite normal for a trunk. Yes, Henry L found some hair then LE thought they’d better redo their job and found a bunch more. I believe it all came from the trunk trash though. I wonder what Lee would have found on the bag, had they had it available for him to inspect like they were supposed to.

Perhaps Casey cleaned it thoroughly at some time but I find no evidence shown that it was cleaned on the 15 or that there was time for that to happen. There was dirt and there was hair. I can’t judge about the one key hair until I hear or see what evidence was on it or why the woman LE said she needed more to show it wasn’t just a random oddity. Melich didn’t call the smell human. The 911 operator would have relayed the dead body comment in the dispatch but no one even bothered with it for another 24 hours. Either they are the most inept LE ever or it isn’t what it appears. They snatch something from Casey’s wallet but don’t take the car.

Damagdpets, you make a good point about prints on the car but we do know that there is something. LE withheld it so far. Remember that lone print that slipped into discovery long ago with no identification attached? Then the state denied in court that there were any. Sounds suspicious to me. Think about it. George and Cindy, the tow guy, many people touched that car but LE has no prints? Yeah right. Cindy detailed the car before going back to work or had enough time before leaving to get Amy? No way! There is proof that George and Cindy both arrived at work and the phone record shows when she contacted Amy.

Snoop, thank you for the link. I knew I’d heard Michigan come up and you refreshed my memory. I’d read that last year. I can see why Casey said she didn’t trust Tara. I agree with you that people usually react emotionally and differently according to their emotional foundation and personality. Some lash out or direct extreme emotion outward, others withdraw and handle it internally or repress. Some will drink or do drugs to escape the pain, others will sleep, others will express it though nervous energy, like LA does with giggles.

Indeed, this is getting “curiouser and curiouser” — one lone hair more than likely, as JB asserts…. means a transfer. Dr G was not specific in her autopsy, therefore, interesting how the prosecution is claiming first degree murder. And yes, JB, Casey’s time and actions do seem to align with drug activities —

Maybe, Casey did have time to clean that trunk more than once. What was she doing the time Tony was in class. She had plenty of time to clean that trunk right out in the parking lot of Tony’s apartment while he went to his classes. Tony stated Casey just hung out at his apartment with his roommate while he wasn’t there. Roommate probably ran errands during the day, not staying all the time with Casey. Also, the child was bagged and tagged and stuck in a laundry bag. This would prevent alot of hair not being transfered into the trunk. How do you explain the grave wax found on the paper towels that she so stupidly left in the trunk. The smell of the trunk, the fact that no one can say they drove Casey’s car, the 31 days of not reporting the child missing, the lies, the cover ups of where she was and where was the child. No one would have motive to kill that child. Her friends most certainly didn’t see her reacting differently, hell she was partying away, her parents just had no power over her, to demand to see the child. Casey Anthony murdererd her child out of pure spite, and wanted to become Mrs. Casey Lazarro, because she was too lazy to work, too lazy to advance her education, and wanted to become a Leave it to Beaver Housewife and spend the poor smucks money, and it seems with her changing boyfriends like shoes, it’s pretty apparent.

Maggie
October 14, 2010 at 1:28 pm
“Casey Anthony murdererd her child out of pure spite, and wanted to become Mrs. Casey Lazarro, because she was too lazy to work, too lazy to advance her education, and wanted to become a Leave it to Beaver Housewife and spend the poor smucks money, and it seems with her changing boyfriends like shoes, it’s pretty apparent.”
————————
Really Maggie — how do you know all this ..and why then should the state go thru the motions of a trial. Maybe the prosecution should follow your lead. Don’t mean to be sharp .. it’s just that ….. how and why are you so certain?
“

Hello Maggie. Welcome to JB’s mission to explore important questions and seek answers. I have to ask, are you a woman? I ask because I have the highest amount of respect for the most important job in the world, that just happens to not be a paid and valued job by our society, motherhood, caring for children. Oh, I know, the state values daycares that they license. But they don’t value motherhood and neither does most of society. Mothers these days are expected to work a full time job away from home and care for their children’s needs till they go to bed, then be on call the rest of the 24 hours a day. That being said, there is much we don’t know, such as when Casey became aware that her child’s life was in danger. In fact, if she thought, on December 11, when she woke up, that Caylee would eventually be returned or found alive and well, reasonable or not, her reaction at noon that day was very expected, reasonable and normal. They were hoping for a breakdown and confession. Instead they got a normal reaction from a shocked, panicked and grieving mother that was trying very hard to escape reality, saying this isn’t real.

If you look at the ingredients listed for the supposed grave wax in the forensic report you’ll find those chemicals are all found in normal kitchen fats. I believe that sufficient heat, moisture and time will do the same thing. If the body fats had liquified and had purged, there would have been other purge fluids, which there were not. Maybe Val will come along and correct me if I’m wrong. I must say I agree with Hazaka that we can not know some of what you are saying and I think the text saying she had a proud momma moment with the potty training is evidence showing no motive to want her daughter dead. Only a loving mother could appreciate something so not fun but necessary. Who knows, maybe some mothers enjoy that but I can’t imagine. It’s more of a necessary chore that results in relief of some of the duties later on.

Maggie it seems if Casey was busy cleaning up the trunk all the time, there probably
would not have been a garbage bag and paper towels with grave wax when the car was
recovered?

I am not sure if you are new to this blog..I don’t always see when someone new arrives.
But if you are..there is some very good reading here ..as well as extensive research, links,
and facts. JB’s blog IMO is the best there is. It is quite different from others.

I see that your opinion is that Casey murdered Caylee out of spite. I respect it as your opinion.

I personally have not been convinced of guilt on Casey’s behalf of murdering her child.
Through extensive research on my own of factual information..and some speculation..as
well as the extensive research that has been done on this site..
I have not seen proof as of yet, that she murdered her daughter. I am the type of person
who spends much time weighing the scales prior to coming to a conclusion, or a decision.
So at this point I have not seen the weight to prove Casey’s guilt.

There is..as I said some great reading material here, some offered.. that gives another side to the general
population’s theory of Casey’s guilt and motives. There has been a lot of hard work in
researching and quest for the answers throughout the blogs on JB’s site. Some great theories, and possibilities. Some digging deep into the facts of the case that we have
been presented with.

If you are new..let me be the first to welcome you..If you have the time to read through
any of the blogs..at the very least..I am sure you would find it interesting.

Hazaka
Because she was practicing writing her name that way. Also, as soon as Tony was out of town, she was trying to get a back up boy in Will Waters. It’s the way she thinks, she was sleeping around every couple of weeks. It’s obvious she wanted out of Cindy’s and George’s House. It’s her actions. Testimony for Tony said that she got very upset when he was joking with her about staying in NY, she was on the phone with Tony while he was in NY on the 4th of July, crying, then she’s out hanging with Will Waters, even to the point she talked with him until she reached the airport waiting area, picking Tony up. Face it the girl, was looking to be hooked with someone, anyone, she didn’t want to work, she stole, she had no intention of working. Casey was 22, and very immature for her age.

I’m just saying that the evidence is overwelming. Why would a perfect stranger murder a poor innocent child, and if that were the case, why would the mother lie about the wereabouts of her child. That’s the easiest way to look at it. If someone else murdered Caylee Anthony, why did her Mother Casey have to cover it up, lie, lie and lie some more, and go out for 31 days have a great time. I would think that sounds a bit off the wall. If it was a kidnapping by this Zanny the Nanny person, then why not be up front give a discription, let the police investigate from the get go. Why can’t they find Zanny the Nanny? No one had ever seen this person, I mean really, don’t you think she would have an appropriate address, phone number, with all the photo’s Casey plastered everywhere, not one photo? And who for god’s sakes says the drop their child off between 9:00 and 1:00, that’s 4 hrs. I mean really, I dropped my children off at day care, I assure you every mother knows when they drop their child off, and when they pick them up. And please enlighten me on the Jeffrey Michael Hopkins charater and his son Zach, she told her mother that they were going to hook up, for the childrens sake, I believe she even mentioned marriage on that story too.

Hazaka
And so you should take issue. There had to be a reason, a small child was murdered and thrown away like garbage. Of course I don’t know that, but with the statements made not only by her family but by her friends, it makes more sense then an imaginary Nanny, and all the other characters she made up. If she didn’t do it, then why all the stories. Why be afraid to assist LE in finding the child if this so called person kidnapped her. I would just like to know those few things, I have an open mind, give me just one person that can back up her story. Why try to throw other people under the bus, because your a defense attorney and you can. Doesn’t sound right to me is all.

“I am not sure if you are new to this blog..I don’t always see when someone new arrives.
But if you are..there is some very good reading here ..as well as extensive research, links,
and facts. JB’s blog IMO is the best there is. It is quite different from others.”

Why would it be different from others, and yes I have read quite a bit of the discovery, are you saying not to voice an opinion unless you are pro-casey? Having two different opinions makes for better observations. I mean really, Joy Wray, Laura Buchannan, can the defense be serious. Now let’s go after the one person who actually found the poor child. Not too mention pointing fingers at Jesse Grund, Tony, Amy, Ricardo, these people had no idea what was going on, Casey simply lied to all of them. Casey Anthony can’t even come clean on the poor childs father. Really, will it come down to a single hair, will come down to decomp in the trunk, not sure but there are a lot of unanswered questions on Casey Anthony’s behavior.

Woopsies —-I nor anyone else said what you are indicating …. I didn’t say I thought you were “new” .. and — this is NOT a pro (how odd in a murder case ) Casey blog …. and your comment: “are you saying not to voice an opinion unless you are pro-casey?” is far from what I’ve seen on this blog… As far as I can tell…. this is a good place to discuss ALL aspects and not the minutia … again welcome!

IMO if Casey was afraid for her daughter and drugs were involved why not tell the truth after Caylees body was recovered no reason to lie after that. I am so glad the defense is getting to test what they need to in the end I think the truth will come out and I want her to have the best possible defense so there will be no doubt who did this.

Hopefully, I havent offended anyone. But some of the comments on here were well a bit unrealistic. You can’t just look at one piece of evidence, you have to look at it all. It’s not like picking and choosing one thing and forgetting about another. It all has to be looked at together.
What we do know:
1. Caylee was missing for 31 days and not reported by her mother, infact her mother created stories of where the child actually was.
2. She was definately out partying, getting her nails done, getting a tatoo, and lieing thru her teeth to friends and family.
3. She resorted to steeling money, and not blinking an eye. Not sure if you watched the video’s but I sure didn’t see her purchasing anything for a 2 1/2 yr old child.
4. Whatever was in the trunk of that car, sure didn’t smell good, by several LE depo’s. With her own mother and father making the statement of decomp.
5. WHERE IS ZANNY THE NANNY

Hi Everybody!
Zuben,
Thanks for reminding me there was a trash bag found in Casey’s trunk.
: I should’ve had V-8: 😀
In my attempt to explain the “lone hair” I blurted something that I shouldn’t have.
I said, “What are the chances that Casey was able to remove all but one of Caylee’s hairs since the trunk is said to have been thoroughly cleaned?” This has never been mentioned in documents. Other than Cindy washing some clothes. Thanks for reminding me and keeping me in check. I apologize for the confusion. I still think the hair was possibly a transfer hair and not proof that a body was in the car.

Hi Hazaka,
Thanks for explaining to Maggie what this blog is about. It’s not “pro-Anthony”, We just discuss other aspects and possibilities. Exactly! I’m glad you caught that. I’m not Pro or Anti Anthony. It’s the place to come if you’ve ever questioned the online rhetoric and assumptions regarding Casey Anthony’s psyche and motives.
In any case, I’m amazed by the indepth research Zuben, Snoop and others have shared with us. It has opened the door to another way to look at this case. And slowly many of our ideas are coming to fruition.

Maggie, All of your questions are good ones. The first three I honestly believe could only be answered by a psych evaluation and more than one to find out what made her think the way she did. She has been described by profilers that she is a sociopath, short version, a person who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. This might explain the 1st three questions speaking in general terms. It sounds like KC never suffered a consequence for anything her entire life. Lying about the 31 days, stealing money going about life the way she knew it didn’t phase her. I’m sure she felt that no matter what story was told, her family would believe her…….until LE got involved…..that was reality. If her mother would not gone to get her on July 15th…who knows how long it would have been before she reported Caylee missing or at all. 4th question; No one for sure knows what was in the trunk of the car……something(s) was rotting. It is something that will be fought in court by forensic experts. “ZANNY” still remains a mystery and until trial when the rest of the evidence is brought forth it’s 50/50 if she really exists or another one of KC’s stories.
\The hardest part of the case is deciding on what part of KC’s interviews one chooses to believe, did she lie all the time, 1/2 the time or just a little. Then trying to match real evidence to what she said is very frustrating and takes a great deal of time. Thats why JB’s site is a great place to change ideas. People here go through great links investigating what ever one or all can find. Not everyone believes the same but are willing to share. I like it here and I like being challenged by ideas. Hope I helped just a little……good evening.

Hazaka, I’m not too old to blush. Thank you. :”> Maggy, a fact or three…

Most, or at least many children raped, murdered and thrown away like trash are strangers to the pedophile. The ones that aren’t strangers usually are friends of the family or family members themselves and the abuse goes on rather than murdering them. Most or at least many children kidnapped are kidnapped by strangers. I’m sure there are many less cases of fillicide than of non filicide child murders.

Tony’s school schedule was 9 to 1.

Tony was in her car. He put gas in her car at the Hess station too.

She had many friends, a lot of them guys, a lot that came on to her and wanted her regardless of whether or not she was dating Tony. Yes, she got quite upset with Tony teasing that he wasn’t coming back. He had been wooing her with words of love so is that surprising she would be upset?

If you read here you will see clear evidence that many of the people most are saying are imaginary are in fact, real. A former co-worker apparently verified the fact that Juliet, JMH and his son Zachary are real, along with hearing about the nanny.

There are many people that are illegal in Florida. Many people don’t allow their picture to be taken for various reasons. Many people use aliases. There are many women with the name ZG but LE only talked to 2.

The little Ramsey girl was thought by LE and most of the public, to have been killed by her parents until DNA proved that wasn’t the case. It ruined their life and probably sent the mother to an early grave. There is a DNA fragment too small to identify with but can’t belong to Casey because it is a different allele than she has. It is under the surface of the duct tape so it couldn’t have gotten there by Kronk sneezing while standing over her.

I completely agree with you, Maggie, that her not reporting Caylee missing, dancing, lying are disturbing and could be circumstantial evidence of her guilt. But guilty of what? I have seen no solid evidence of what they have charged her with. But there is much more than just that, we must consider and there can be reasonable justification for that, for which I’ve already suggested possibilities somewhere here. We won’t know until the defense presents her case. More than that, they don’t have anything to connect Casey to Suburban drive but their is evidence that someone else had contact with her. That is a really big problem for me. Would you be willing to kill someone or otherwise take their life away because they didn’t call the police and went out dancing? What if she thought she was with a safe babysitter during that time?

There is no doubt that Casey Anthony made a lot of mistakes. She has taken responsibility for at least part of them. But I wouldn’t be willing to convict her of murder on the evidence shown so far. The fraud with Amy’s checks, yes. She confessed to that on July 15 and was seen on tape. But not murder. Do you really think she wanted to marry Tony so bad she killed her daughter because he wanted only boys but yet she was that upset at his saying he wasn’t going to come back to town? She would just say she’d move there, in that case. She had nothing to keep her in Orlando if she had disposed of her daughter.

Maggie, have you seen the photos of Caylee’s wardrobe? If so, do you think her mother would dress her in a shirt that hadn’t been worn at home, the grandmother didn’t recognize, was likely left at a friend’s house or the nanny’s and a pair of shorts that were an infant size when she had a full wardrobe of 2 and 3 toddler sizes? Did photo’s of Caylee show her wearing clothing that looked too small, too short or was she always neatly dressed in clothing that fit her well?

Damagdpets, you describe this site well. That’s the way I view it too. As time has gone on, I am leaning more toward not guilty, certainly of 1st degree murder. But, until we have both sides of the story and all the docs, which we don’t have, there is no way to know beyond a reasonable doubt. I want to know what the bugs ate. I want to know what signs of decomp the hair had. (JB a transference is possible and makes more sense than one hair falling out of the bag.) I want to know why Melich said those emails were fake when they weren’t. I want to know why they didn’t check for remote access or trojans on her computer. I want to know who was called on Casey’s phone when the officer had it, one number not ever called before by Casey. I want to know where that officer’s report is. I want to know what the female officer took and why that hasn’t been included in a report. I want to know why the state says there were no prints when one was released in discovery? I want to know why Joe Jordon is changing his story. (I suspect I know already) Why haven’t they investigated the Zenaida- Dora myspace and released that in discovery. Why were all of the myspace comments during that time, all her emails before the 15th and only part of the facebook comments deleted? Why was another computer IP accessing her account?

Whew! I’m out of breath and have barely brushed the surface. 😉 Now, I realize the jury won’t have been privy to all that we’ve been able to read so much of this might not ever enter their thinking, if the defense doesn’t point it out or catch it. But, would you really be willing to convict her with any of that not answered adequately first?

Maggie, have you seen the photos of Caylee’s wardrobe? If so, do you think her mother would dress her in a shirt that hadn’t been worn at home, the grandmother didn’t recognize, was likely left at a friend’s house or the nanny’s and a pair of shorts that were an infant size when she had a full wardrobe of 2 and 3 toddler sizes? Did photo’s of Caylee show her wearing clothing that looked too small, too short or was she always neatly dressed in clothing that fit her well?

GUYS theres a picture of Caylee wearing the shirt found at the crime scene. And yes Caylee did have same brand of shirts in her draws with little saying written on them, See Greta Interview of the home. Also, there is a picture of Caylee wearing the shorts that were found at the crime scene, see discovery released. No one who knew Casey or her family had any reason to kill Caylee, if the Nanny was real, why not introduce her to her parents, why not have emergency contact info in case Casey could not be reached at her imaginary job. And the Heather person recalled her testimony to police she did not confirm Zach or Julliet Lewis, there was a Michael Hopkins but he quit that job in 2002, before Casey started working there. All found in discovery and depos. So yes, I believe there is no reasonable doubt that could be provide as of YET. As for illegals getting their picture taken, she apparently new Zanny for a few years, according to Casey, no email, no phone messages, no texts, that girl lived on her phone and computer. Hmmmmm…..not looking good. That’s the story she’s sticking with remember, LE asked her several times. If your innocent WHY LIE.

Zuben,
I had to smile when I read “Whew! I’m out of breath and have barely brushed the surface. ”
Maybe you could cut & paste your comment.. Your response is just too perfect to not re-use. lol
It’s so perplexing to me that others just want to cookie cut this case and make it fit into something they can relate to or they are familiar with. Obviously this case is highly unusual so I suspect the answer to the puzzle will be the same. Casey just didn’t pick up the name Zenaida Gonzalez out of the phone book, that I’m sure of.
As for the jury reaching a verdict, Casey is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt??? As of now, I don’t think it’s possible unless they come up with some hard physical evidence.

JB —- your statement: “It’s so perplexing to me that others just want to cookie cut this case and make it fit into something they can relate to or they are familiar with.” is to me, the key to why so many have “decided” what, where and who in this sad case. Far too many people do not, or perhaps cannot think beyond their own little world. Fortunately you can,and others participating here can! We thank you.

Maggie, I’m aware that there are photos with her in the top at Ricardo’s. My point was it wasn’t recognized as being from the home in her home wardrobe. Lots of people have the same brand because they shop at the same stores. Other people have the same brand of laundry tote and tape too. Can you share a link to the photo in the shorts. I’d like to see how old she was when it was taken. Thank you.

Could you also provide a link the police interview with Heather McDonald? I thought I’d seen everything but have never seen any sign of LE following up on the information Lee gave to them. He said that Heather wasn’t sure what Jeff or Juliet’s last name was but they did exist. Cindy A testified that she gave a sheet of paper to LE with the contact info for Zanny she had. We have yet to see that in discovery but we also haven’t seen what the female LE took from the wallet. That doesn’t raise an eyebrow with you?

Maggie, are you aware that there are a few numbers in her records not yet identified? There is a lot of IM activity that isn’t identified either. That’s easy enough for LE to do but they didn’t bother, from what I’ve seen.

Thanks, JB. I understand those that just can’t get past the 31 days and going to Fusion, etc. But that is only part of the story and if we develop tunnel vision, a guilty person could go free and an innocent one could die. That would make two tragedies rather than one. We need to be able to see outside the box, or in this case, outside the laundry bag. We haven’t yet been given the rest so how can we judge?

Zuben —– again… u r amazing! Your post to Maggie (et al) is on target …and “I understand those that just can’t get past the 31 days and going to Fusion, etc. But that is only part of the story and if we develop tunnel vision, a guilty person could go free and an innocent one could die. That would make two tragedies rather than one. We need to be able to see outside the box, or in this case, outside the laundry bag. We haven’t yet been given the rest so how can we judge?” says a whole bunch! Thanks …..

Picture of Caylee in the shorts, is on WFTV site, with her playing with Mommy Dearest herself. Heather was not interviewed as a depo by police, detectives spoke with her, this was told to Cindy Anthony herself, in the LE interview late July 08 early Aug 08, you can also watch that on WFTV. What do you all think about the coffin fly’s reported yesterday. Ya think someone planted those too. She got the names of her imaginary co-workers and so called friends of Zanny from her very own year book, taking first names and last names from her classmates, yep! that’s right there was a Zeniada in her home room a Raquel, another person with the last name Ferrell, not to mention Jeff Hopkins. Don’t you find it odd that everyone has three names when she tells her stories, Jeffery Michael Hopins, Zeniada Fernendaz Gonzolas ?????? and so on! I really find it strange that those papertowels had grave wax and coffin flies on them IN THE TRUNK OF HER CAR. Now who exactly are you excusing of driving Casey’s car? Let me guess the nice man at the tow yard set her up. Time will tell, tick tock tick tock.

Hazaka,
Sarcasm that’s all you have to say! Now I’m beginning to wonder if this blog has done their homework. That really wasn’t a great come back now. I have a feeling you haven’t reviewed all the discovery, have you. “your post suggests a very angy individual – sarcasm does bode well with analzying issues. You also purport to “know” that which you cannot know for sure. Why?” -Sorry this would suggest that you simply have not read the evidence. Directing that to someone, indicates to me, that you perhaps don’t know for sure, I never once stated I KNEW FOR SURE, I just brought some facts out there, that I didn’t see anyone addressing is all.

Maggie — I have to run now …bbl …. but …. the way in which you seemingly “know” things that truly you cannot …and the way you describe Casey “princess Casey” and on and on tells me you are looking at things with a tunnel vision — and describing people in a sarcastic way does suggest an angry person….. now, that is my thought. Catch u all later …..

Maggie,
Now let me get this straight.
You said:
” She got the names of her imaginary co-workers and so called friends of Zanny from her very own year book, taking first names and last names from her classmates, yep! that’s right there was a Zeniada in her home room a Raquel, another person with the last name Ferrell, not to mention Jeff Hopkins”
You are quite the theorist Maggie. So you’re saying she (Casey) planned the whole thing. That’s why she told Richard Grund “I have a new babysitter. Her name is Zenaida Gonzalez” from there she would just bide her time until she met her Dream Man, the handsome, well bred, multi-millionaire Tony Lazarro, then after that, she’d off her daughter Caylee to live the “bella vita” with him. I guess it helped her plan too because she said Tony didn’t want girls, only boys. I guess Casey KNEW that any other children she would have in the future would DEFINITELY be boys. Oh yeah I see, I guess it made it real easy for her then, huh?
uh huh.. What else do you KNOW?
“”And it is ODD, that a person would know someone by their 3 names? “” Well, that right there points to a murderer too. What else do you KNOW?
“those papertowels had grave wax and coffin flies on them IN THE TRUNK OF HER CAR”,, uh huh.. I guess it wouldn’t be possible that the papertowels came from the GARBAGE bag that was in her trunk?? Oh you didn’t mention that, but that’s okay.
What else ya got??
” And please explain the Hinkle Tape, that the Anthony’s were stupid enough to use hanging posters, HMMMMM” If Casey wouldn’t have been so stupid, she would have told George and Cindy not to use that stupid tape!! Crazy, huh?
Yup, that’s quite a plan she had…

Ok Maggie,
I played back with you to let you know how you are portraying yourself.
On a serious note. Now you’re accusing us of not knowing the facts which then implies that we are ignorant to this case. This is NOT allowed nor is your angry attitude. Especially from someone who has ranted and has yet to provide one link to support any of her claims.

Well, I see I missed the commotion and Maggie gave up her right to respond but for the record I wanted to make a comment in response. I believe the shot of Caylee in those shorts you are referring to is back when she was the age she would wear that size, quite a bit younger, which was exactly my point. She was left with shorts she wasn’t currently wearing. The only way that should happen is if all her clothing was dirty and had to dig into old stuff or it was left at someone’s house where she was being cared for and it was dumped with her.

Coffin flies are never surprising when there is garbage around. A simple google search will show that they are attracted to anything that has been decomposing, sewers, garbage, etc. You could even find them in the compost pile. Yes, i have done my homework and have read everything I had access to.

I’m sorry you seem so angry. Know that I, and I’m sure I speak for others here, only want justice for Caylee. If her mother is guilty of this horrible crime I want to know but I won’t be railroaded or bullied into believing it. Have a good day.

Good evening everyone….hope you are having a great day. I have a question for you all but am not sure how to phrase it, so bear with me.

Let’s suppose Casey is found guilty of 1st degree murder and is sentenced to death (or even LWOP). Will you be accepting of that verdict? Will you be satisfied that justice has been done? What if things that you have spent so much time researching are never brought into the trial? I keep reading about “we will have to wait until trial”, but some things will not change even at trial. LE will still have made mistakes (in your opinion), phone records, computer searches, text messages etc, will still be incompletely researched and evaluated. People will still not have been deposed etc…..

Do you see what I am trying to say here? I most certainly do not mean to be confrontational in any manner, but I am curious if you will be satisfied (and I am not sure that is the right word) if she is found guilty. Or will you feel that a guilty verdict is a huge miscarriage of justice?

I apologize if this makes no sense, but I hope you understand my question.

It may very well be. But JB and Zub have always been good about answering my hypothetical questions, so I was just wondering what they thought at this moment. If the prosecution, or the defense, doesn’t bring up matters that Zub, JB and others find so compelling, will they still think she got treated fairly? Or will there always be a doubt in their minds if she gets convicted?

Gosh people sure get upset about a case. Thank God I am not on the jury. I really am just looking for one thing in the outcome of this all and that is for “ZANNY THE NANNY” to make her appearence, when this happens I will be the first one to say get this girl out of jail and let her go home.

Hello EDRN,
I’ll try to answer your question but I can only speak for myself. You’re asking hypothetically if the jury does come back with a guilty verdict if I (personally) will then be satisfied and able to walk away? Well EDRN, I think the 2 years or so that I’ve been discussing this case and add the time till May 11, 2011 and 3 or 4 months after, by then I hope to move on.
I believe IF there is a guilty verdict and the majority of issues we have researched here have been at least addressed or considered, I will be satified. Who knows, if by then the State has physical evidence or something else NO ONE is aware of, I may even agree, Casey is guilty. I would hope if it’s the opposite scenario that everyone else would concede too and make a similiar statement. Casey must be innocent.
I believe there’s a misconception here that people who find the evidence insufficient (like Me) are automatic enemies with people who think the circumstantial evidence is sufficient. This is NOT true. Many of my friends disagree with me; here on my blog and in “real” life.
My own beloved Mother disagreed with me on the outcome of the OJ Trial. Certainly there was no love lost or animosity between us. Life goes on and that’s what I hope will happen here.
No matter what the outcome of this case, I know I’ve met some intelligent, good hearted folks. It was refreshing to find so many other people who like to sleuth and debate. I surely do. That’s what makes life interesting and that’s how we all learn. I am a constant student of life. After the Casey Anthony mystery is done and over with, who knows I may move onto another cause. BTW, I think my family and friends will welcome it. 😀
EDRN, you always ask the Good questions?
Thank you very much. It was my pleasure.
JB

JB, thank you so much for a well thought out answer. I have always felt welcome here even if I disagree with other posters. My opinions or questions have never been discounted or met with derision. I have never felt like an enemy here. Keep up the good work. I enjoy coming here and reading, even if I don’t agree with everything.

diane and EDRN,
I see you need a specific answer to the Zanny question. That’s were we differ. I’m open to ZG not using her real name. I’m not satified with the research or lack thereof done by the detectives on the babysitter issue. I’m in agreement, KC was not being the most forthcoming on July 15th. I think she was hoping to handle her own problem on her own terms and she had an attitude with Cindy. I feel it’s possible that she had reason to believe the “babysitter” could be trusted or at least KC thought Caylee wouldn’t be harmed. Yes, I think she had a babysitter.
But…here we are again, trying to put the pieces together, back to Square One, the nanny.
What IF, the babysitter had nothing to do with anything and Casey is still innocent of murder?? Who knows, and Yes EDRN, let’s wait and see how the State lays out the crime and see what the Defense argues at trial. That’s my only answer, sorry EDRN. 😦 hahaha

Hi Erdn. I really couldn’t answer that unless I knew what was being ignored. I notice you said, “in your opinion” regarding mistakes and quite a few things I pointed out as mistakes or wrong information were backed up with the proof. An email address can’t be made up if there is a person using it to create a myspace. That person couldn’t be Casey since the space is still being actively logged in to.

There are cases that resulted in a guilty verdict and even death but were later completely exonerated. If this trial ends with the same shadows as those cases, you bet I won’t be satisfied. I’m sure each one of those defendants had attorneys and others who knew the person was innocent when the verdict came in.

Now, let me ask you a question. Will you be satisfied if they are willing to put her to death without a cause of death to prove it was premeditated murder? Would you be satisfied if they convict her without any physical evidence but yet there is physical evidence that is unidentified on Caylee? (the hair and dna fragment)

EDRN, I would also be one to accept the guilty verdict and move on. I don’t believe in the death penalty, so that would trouble me but for personal reasons. Like you said, there are so many mysteries in this case. There’s so much more that some people know that is not being told. That’s why I find JB’s site so refreshing and welcoming to discussion and theories.

Snoop made some great points yesterday about the psychological aspects of the case–how each person’s psychology plays a part and provides pieces of the puzzle. I hope that all the pieces can be thoroughly analyzed so that the truth comes out, whatever the truth is.

I don’t agree about the babysitter issue. I do not believe there was a Zanny the Nanny or any other babysitter (other than the early on friend and the Grunds). I think Casey hauled Caylee with her where ever she went if Cindy/Geroge couldn’t babysit. As a grandparent, I cannot imagine Cindy not knowing who was watching Caylee. And how did Casey pay a babysitter/nanny?
And you are right JB, we will all have to wait until trial to see the state and defense in action. Sure will be interesting to compare what the SAO and the defense think is important to this case, as opposed to what we think is important.

———————————————-
BESHERT huh? First time I’ve heard that…interesting. I love to hear Hebrew phrases. They’re fun to hear and dissect their origins.
I wonder if BESHERT is the origin to the word BERSERK?? LOL, because I did come close to going berserk this morning. 😀 Thanks for the tidbit.

Zub, first the “in your opionion” was meant to address LE errors and only that. You know how I feel about LE….we can agree to diagree on that issue.

To be completely honest with you Zub, yes I am okay with Casey being put to death without a cause of death to show premeditation. In my mind, cause of death isn’t necessary to prove premeditation. As to the physical evidence, lots of cases are tried on circumstancial evidence. But I believe in this case that there is evidence that we have not seen yet. I could be completely wrong about that. Now, if there is evidence that will exonerate Casey and implicate someone else, then hell yeah, release her, say your sorry and arrest the real culprit. I certainly don’t want an innocent person put to death, but I believe they have they right person in this case.

Again, I have to reiterate, you guys know wayyyyyyyy more about the evidence than I do. I don’t pretend to know even a portion of what you do. My questions are only for my own curiousity and maybe to give others something to ponder.

EDRN,
I guess that’s possible?? Not sure tho. As for George babysitting?? I have a gut feeling he babysat more than he claims. There’s something odd about the George/KC relationship. Annie D said they fought like cats and dogs yet KC cries the first time she sees him at her bond hearing… I don’t know, he may just be a phony. I think you said your hub is a LEO..I wonder what he thinks about Georgie Boy?? He’s an enigma to me.

Sorry JB, my husband would rather gouge out his eyes than hear, talk about, ot think about the Anthony’s…lol. He has no one single iota of interest in this case. He won’t even listen to me when I talk about it. I doubt he could pick Casey, Cindy or George out of a line up.

I think George has some serious self esteem issues, whether they are of his own making, or Cindy’s. Think about it….if any of this is true….a LEO that losses money in a Nigerian Scam? A man that changes jobs frequently and can’t support his family? A man that gets thrown out by his wife, but she decides to keep because she will have to give him half her retirement? A son and daughter that seeminhly have no respect for him (undoubtedly fueled by Cindy, or at least her actions). I think George is just a mess….

JB et al … yes, George is a mess…… but ….truthfully, most compulsive gamblers are …. gambling is an addiction — results in abnormal behaviour, lying, secrets, etc. Perhaps Cindy should have insisted he go to GA …… Its a sad addiction.

Good morning Erdn. Premeditation is simply the word that must go with murder 1, that wasn’t the key word I was focused on. Cause of death is necessary in order to know it was premeditated murder. They will likely say the tape may have been the cause of death but the defense says the photos show otherwise, it seems. If they can’t show a logical cause of death how can they claim murder as opposed to accident? If the other piece of tape shows circumstantially that the feet were bound, because of what bones it was found near, and the placement of the shorts indicate she wasn’t wearing them and the physical evidence on the tape indicates some other person had more recent contact than Casey, wouldn’t that be a circumstantial case for kidnapping and rape rather than fillicide?

I guess I tend to believe that if I agree with taking a a person’s life without strong indication of guilt, evidenece pointing to another likely possibility, then I will be judged or reap consequences for that in some way, just as if I were the jury or judge so I am not quick to judge. I have enough regrets in life as it is.

They can’t have evidence they are withholding at this point. If they did, they are potentially causing a mistrial or forcing the delay of the trial because the defense would have to inspect, depose and everything else that the deadlines are already set for. The law or court rules forbid them to withhold anything. They are to turn it over “promptly” once they have it. We’ve already seen them wait one and two years to turn things over which is clearly not prompt. I suspect they could be withholding exculpatory evidence. It wouldn’t be the first time Ashton has done that. I read on another forum that LE told two different bloggers that they checked out the ZG myspace and the IP was Southern Florida. Now, might that be considered evidence and exculpatory? I think Val was one, if I’m remembering correctly. I don’t think she would make that up. If they didn’t check it out, do you think it is important to know who set that up considering the day it was created, the name and the Dora pic?

There is a Hebrew character that hasn’t made it in to the compiled sacred Jewish books but is found in other ancient texts. Her name is Lilith, meaning night specter/monster or Storm Goddess. She was the first wife of Adam who demanded to be treated as his equal, as she was created. He refused and she left him. She was given charge of protecting children until a certain age but after that was accused as their killer if they died, an ancient reasoning for crib or accidental death. She became a demon in ancient lore, and might even be the serpent described in the garden. Casey has been demonized too. Lilith dwelled by the Dead Sea or places that are much like Suburban Drive. Her punishment was to have her children taken away at the rate of 100 per day. I believe this is describing Hemerocallis, (Greek meaning beautiful day, similar to beautiful life) the daylily that only lives a day. Notice the name seems to hide Hermes and Caylee within. Hermes was the negotiator in another story about a child, by the way. Caylee certainly is beautiful.

This reminds me of another ancient myth, that of Persephone and Demeter. Persephone was abducted and raped, taken to the underworld. After negotiations that took about as long as it did to bring Caylee’s body to LE’s attention, Persephone was allowed to come back into the upper world, to the light of day. She carried with her one single pomegranate seed, a tiny piece of evidence of what had happened to her. Unfortunately, that same seed assured Demeter would have to keep her end of the bargain and allow her daughter to return to the grave, come the next winter time. We can’t bring her back but we can demand that the seed be discovered. NO, we don’t have an overt, direct involvement but where thoughts go, energy flows. Unfortunately, many thoughts raced to judgment early on, which caused Casey to shut down and go underground, through the advise of her attorney.

Good afternoon everyone,
I find it interesting that EDRN and ZubenElSchemali’s argument is indeed a huge factor in this case. Was this premeditated murder? It’s hard to say when there’s no cause of death. Yes, the argument is “Caylee didn’t place herself in a bag and die of natural causes”. Could this be a case of an accident cover-up made to look like a kidnapping? As insane as this sounds, it could be.
Whatever Casey did, she’s not telling. She shut down perhaps because she couldn’t face Cindy with the truth or because LE scared her. It was obvious early on, LE didn’t even entertain Casey’s claim that she left Caylee with a babysitter. So I understand why LE has no choice but to charge her with something. Originally, she was charged with child neglect which I think is a better fit than murder 1. Probably if the prosecution would have tried her on felony child neglect, this case would be done with. She could have gotten the max. 30yrs but instead the prosecution decided to first try her on check fraud, which was an over kill IMO, but that gave them what they wanted, Casey is now a convicted felon. This was another factor to make her elible for Murder One w/DP. IMO, this was a dirty tactic when considering there isn’t even a cause of death.
No doubt, the death/murder of a child is most despicable and we all want someone to pay but I think in this unusual case, the charge doesn’t fit the crime.

Thanks for the link. Yummy, חזקה Isn’t זאבאן the confection made with sugar and beaten egg whites sometimes eaten during Passover? 🙂 Interesting what a difference a couple of oxen, Alephs make, huh?. Zuben is just זבן Zayin, Beth, Nun, with the appropriate vowel marks. It means to acquire. Zuben el shemali means to acquire fully or the sufficient price, sort of like getting all the facts involved. It’s companion is zuben el genubi, which means insufficient price. Together they are used to measure and carry out justice, whether that be in judging a crime or fair trade. I like your name, by the way. It’s a strong name. 😉 It’s a variant of Hezekiah, isn’t it?

JB, I agree. I had seen some sentences Strickland gave for even larger amounts and the defendant had priors, not near what he gave Casey. She is being treated differently, IMO. Hopefully Judge Perry will balance things out a little more. So far I think he is being wiser and more objective than Strickland.

zuben..This is going to be off the topic here as far as this case. However, interesting, frustrating courtroom in Fl.

I told you a while back I had been in 2 accidents in 2 months almost to the day.
The first accident was with a motorcycle..I should say a crotch rocket, if you are
familiar with. It is a speed bike. That is what they are purchased for primarily. 0-60
in 2 seconds..1st gear.

We had just had a normal afternoon heavy thunderstorm lasting aprox 30 min or so.
I waited until such time it was over before leaving the house. Fl hwys can be quite
slippery in the beginning of a rain storm as well as the volume that falls in our afternoon
storms creates great hydro planing.

I was going to make a left turn out of a housing development. The road was a 2 lane
hwy. divided by a left turn lane and also a right hand turn lane turning in to development.
Thus now 4 lanes. There is a slight hill or elevation(florida doesn’t have hill LOL) and then
almost immediately there is the beginning of a right turn lane. So the distance to where
I was pulling out is not great but certainly far enough for any vehicle going 45mph. There also at the hill and directly beyond, landscaping. Primarily a bougainvillea tree in full bloom and a no passing sign that obscure most
all of the vehicle after it is coming over the hill. You may see parts of a vehicle through
the tree. At night you can of course see headlights twinkling which is your indication.

The speed limit is 45mph. I looked both ways and I always look well because of that
obstruction and the hill. Nothing..Begin to pull out and I hear a bike. I look and yes, there
is a bike coming..it had just came over the hill and was approaching the tree area. It seemed to be approaching rapidly..However I was in my turn so I continued..Other than backing up? I dont know anything else I could have done. Now, coming from his direction as well..he had obstruction as well until beyond the tree. I don’t know how fast he was going but I assume he was
speeding. He must’ve tried to slow..and he locked up his brakes..Skid 90 ft..his bike
fell on the left side and he continued 20 more ft hit the back driver door and gas tank
area and bounced off my car back to the opposite curb I had pulled out from.

Now by this time my car was 3/4 northbound lane and the part he collided with in the
center lane.I was looking at him face forward and when he was skidding past my car all I could think is this guy needs my help..I had no indication that he was foing to colide..then I hear a thud..the tires hitting my car. Well he was on the left side and probably angled as well as 1/4 of my car was in center lane. There was minimal damage as he I believe was nearly airborn slid past
my vehicle and the tires left minimal damage..more like a swipe.

It was very traumatic! I pulled directly over of course. He was lying face down..no movement..
his bike nearby. I thought he was dead. VERY SCAREY!
At the scene a Florida state trooper came. He was horribly insensitive, arrogant..rude..
obnoxious.. I will not go into great detail ..lbut he was showing great prejudice towards me.
I was in shock primarily.. disbelief over what had just happened. The paramedics were working on him..and I had been crying. I was so concerned for this man. When the officer
approached me I had tears in my eyes..and he said very gruffly..You need to stop that.
I just looked at him ..like..whattttttt??.. He asked me what happened I told him. He asked
for registration etc. I had to cross the street and back..there at this time was plenty traffic..
he did nothing to assist. It took me nearly 10 min. The motorcycle driver did not have a
license on him. When he finally went to look at my car he insisted some gougeing on the corner of my bumper was part of the accident. I said no..thats been there for about 2 yrs.(It is a white car white bumper. My mom and bumped a tree while driving my car..the paint chipped and it was obvious someone had a accident prior because it was gouged out and there was green bondo) He ran his finger over and said something about the gouging and
then looked at me and said no, that is new. I mean there was still visible green bondo?
I was more worried about the guy than this officer calling me a liar..at that time anyway.

And I really did not put it together why he wanted to include that as damage? We go back
to the other side. There was one woman whom had approached me and said she had pulled up after I had pulled out. I wanted to talk to her..by this time another state trooper had
came and he said the original trooper needed me. I said I wanted to get this woman’s name.
He said we will get that information. So I went to the original officer.

Well as time went on they transported the other driver. Up until that time there were
emergency vehicles in the roadway..then there was truck came to get the bike. Which
was not like mangled up or anything. It was scrapped a the bottom of left side where
he skid after the bike fell. and I think a mirror broke off. The officer told me to wait there by his car he was going to write a report. It had started to drizzle again..but still in shock..I stood there alone..everyone was gone except the tow truck..At some point I realized I was getting quite wet..he rolled down his window and said..I will only be a few more minutes.
Now, I am starting to sober..I’m thinking what an a**hole. I thought he was going to invite me to his car or say go ahead to your car. He was friggin treating me like a criminal.

I finally call my brother..he is like what the hell..are there skid marks..Well the tow truck
had just pulled away and I looked and yes..there were..He asked me how long..I was not
a good judge at that point..I had begun crying again..it was all just so crazy. I had been in an accident nearly 40yrs ago.. I was not the driver..but the car was hit from behind
Pinto LOL and caught on fire…We had great difficulty getting out it was awful..and we
were injured. But I had never had this sort of thing happen while I was driving.

He told me to have the officer measure etc. So the officer is done..he tells me he is giving
me yeild of right away..I’m like..I yeilded the right away..He was no where when I began my turn. And then he approached me rapidly..look at the skids.. I would like them measured.
He said no I dont need to. I can tell. So basically, this guy says I am lieing about all including damage to the car.????WTH

Well motorcycle drivers are exempt from insurance in Fl. I was not aware of that. However..
I was aware there is much publicity including whole sides of busses from attorneys wanting
to represent motorcycle drivers. Know I understand why. They can go out and buy a risky
speed demon and if they get in an accident..they always can claim other person’s insurance.
Because of the weather here..motorcycles are plenty and year round. I like bikes..they are
fun to ride. But mind you this isnt any cruiser we are talking about! These guys are all over
Fl on these crotch rockets and they scare the shit out of you on the interstate..You can
hear their speed! Also..I have come to find out..it primarily is found the blame is usually
the vehicle ..automobile..not paying attention for bikes?

Now a bike is quicker to stop than a car..But if it had been an auto instead ..I will guarantee
you there would not have been an accident!

The next day my brother came out..we measured off the skids..20ft reaction time..90ft
skid..20ft to my car while the bike was down..and 20 ft to where he stopped. There were
deep gouges from the handlebars..which can also determine speed.We took time stamped
pics of all..Video of the roadway and cars coming etc.

I had reported the claim the night before..and the next morning my claim rep said they
were going to offer the limit of my policy. I said it was not my fault. He said it does not
matter. Fl is no fault and a jury will find you guilty. Yeild of right away with a motorcycle.
He has a fractured pelvic. The hospital bills and loss of wages, his father says he works
at a bank etc.. We will hire an attorney for you if he sues. I was numb..I watched him
coming and the sound of his bike was there before I could even see him. I say the skids
he was speeding the roads were wet etc. Pay no mind he says it is what it is. Now, mind you I have said a lot of prayers for this guy. My heart goes out to him..I don’t care if they
give him limit of my policy..I pay for insurance..but it was not my fault..I did yeild!

I put a lot of thought into all ..the ticket is 166.00 3points or elect school..or fight.
It took me nearly the month to decide. But I decided to fight. I did yeild. He came over
the hill..I do not know how fast..the roads were wet..I don’t know how experienced he
was at stopping..but he was not there when I pulled out and should have not had
a problem since he was certainly far enough away if he was going 45mph!

Ok..Court date Oct. In between I have another accident. I was just starting to feel
a little comfortable again..I had quite a little struggle driving..I was a little jumpy.
Anyway..11pm at night I am on the exit from the interstate stopped at a red light.
Some young guy who said he looked the other way..rear ends me without even braking.
So I am injured..I have some financial burden..had consulted with some attorneys about
the ticket for 1st accident..but now cant afford.BTW all claims are same insurance co.
It is soooooo complex.

So I have in my breifcase..all paperwork both accidents etc. BTW..the state trooper
upon recieving a copy of accident report..says roads were dry..weather was cloudy..
marks that bumper area I had said was previous of 2 years. The auto body guy suggests
it gives the officer more credibility in what he is saying? Also he has me going east not
north and that I was still in the right turn lane and the southbound lane. So I would
have had to pull directly in front of him.

Yesterday was court. I wake up have a flat tire:( I make it to court on time however.
But as I go in my briefcase to get all my evidence..pictures of skids, car, location, hwy. even weather for the day..thanks to you Zuben for your link a couple weeks ago to the weather under ground! I also had the guys facebook..I found he lived 2 1/2 10ths of a mile away. I seen he had been on facebook, playing mafia wars til 20 min before the accident. It stated he was on way to work..the accident was 4:00 pm..If he works at a bank ..I would say he is late….Anyway my evidence is not there. I had
them out the night before looking..making sure I had all.In my haste with tire etc. I had left it behind. I had just failed my attempt at representing myself! To my dismay I walked in
the courtroom with nothing. No attorney..no evidence. Well not having done this
before..I thought I could ask the judge for a continuance..or another court date..or
ask for a public defender or something. But none of the above was an option.

He allowed us to still take other options..the original ones available with the ticket..and not fight it or have a hearing. He said he wasn’t going to punish us for fighting it..but could
impose a 500 fine. However, looking at driving record etc..that was unlikely and probably would only be a “couple pennies” more than original fine. So when my name is called I say
yes, hearing. I now notice the accident victim in a wheel chair..his mother beside him..and
the officer in front of him.

Sorry this is so long LOLLOL..But here is the good/bad part.
After I say I want a hearing..in fact almost immediately..the trooper is motioning his hand
behind him without turning around like to the guy in the wheel chair.. I was sitting in the back..they are in the front. I wonder what he is doing..A couple secs later he turns slightly sideways..and motions toward the door. I’m thinking maybe he is telling them to leave?

Well the mother gets up..wheels him outside the courtroom.(The judge is busy calling
other names in a full court room asking decisions)About 1min later the trooper gets up
and walks out of the court room. Now, I am thinking WTH. So I tell the guy next to me..
what is going on..he says well you better find out! So I get up walk through the first set of doors being quiet..court in session. Then the next set. As I open the doors there is like
a short distance of ..say..foyer.. walls on each side. I hear the trooper saying..”you have
this injury..see what I mean..so you say you don’t remember..see what I mean”. Im like WTF. So I
walk out into view..and he squatting down to the wheel chair with a paper showing
him something..he sees me..stands up and puts both hands behind his back and the paper.
Now what the hell do I do??? So I walk over the trooper steps back..I bend down and tell
the guy I am glad he survived..many prayers.. and went to the restroom. My head was spinning..I needed to think..I did not want to react..I will take it up with the judge.

I go back to the court room. 10 min later they come back. When the judge calls my name
we all go up. He asks the officer what happened. He said first of all I want to change the statue from making a left turn to something about the stop sign????? The judge lets him..I can see this is all going to lead to me getting screwed. He began to tell him..the judge said first how did you identify her..he says by license..He tells him his version. The judge says how do you know..were you there..Then they role play..no he was not there..well what is your
experience..you know back and forth he has so much experience etc. The judge asks
about skids..he says 5-10 ft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I freaked..he ask him the road conditions
he says dry..what was the weather like..”A CLEAR SUN SHINNING DAY”!!!!!!!!!(but remember the report said cloudy) I could not
believe my ears. The whole story was BS. At another point he said 10-15 ft of skids???? WTH
He couldn’t even get his lies straight.

So he says to the motorcycle guy..and who are you a witness..and the trooper acts like
his attorney..he says no he is the other driver. The judge again asks the guy who are you?
He says I was the other driver. He says tell me what happen. He says he was traveling southbound towards _______rd. And the judge says and what happened..he said I don’t
know I have amnesia. The judge says well did you see the car..the guy said I dont remember
I have amnesia.

Well, its my turn..everything I said..the judge said where is the proof..I I explained in
my haste with the flat I had left behind. I had no options of another hearing etc..He just
kept saying well, today was your day in court. 300.00 fine pay to go to aggressive driving
school.

The trooper lied contradicted his report…is it even permissible that he could pull him
aside outside the courtroom???????????I would think not..But the judge stopped me from
saying anything except direct answers and what had been discussed. The trooper laughed
at me trying to talk to the judge. And the paper he had was the diagram of the accident..
because he showed it to the judge. So whats in it for him??? What the hell? Is it racial..is he
a bike rider..is there some history..what?????

Now when I was in the 2nd accident..the trooper was like a breath of fresh air. He treated
the kid who hit me with respect. Tried to make him feel better by telling him he had done
something similar..I mean night and day. So I complimented him and explain 1st accident
trooper. He said you have name..I went to my car to see..Im looking for the paper
in my car..while I am doing that he asks me the county. I tell him..he gives a very detailed
description..I said yeah thats him. I get the paper and at the same time he says his name
first..and I said YES..He said yep ex NYPD..arrogant , aggressive, obnoxious, rude. He tells
me to put in complaint. I did not, because I did not want it to interfere with my hearing perhaps.

So now what ?! 30 days to appeal..So I will consult with an attorney. You know..My heart
still goes out to the guy on the bike. I don’t know if he had to be in wheelchair or more
comfort..I don’t know. He has not signed the release for the policy limit. But regardless
of all I want justice about this damn trooper.
So you want to talk about lies..deception..the courtroom..and cops..prime example.

snoop
————–Just finished reading your terrible ordeal…. it is frightening to think that some with a tad of power use it to intimidate, lie and demean others. That cop was —- indeed, as they used say….a pig! I see that you are on the east coast, and obviously aren’t sleeping with all this on your head. I wish I could offer some brilliant advice … but …. an attorney is what you need. Lies, deceit and cover up can happen to anyone…. so sorry this time it’s you.

Zuben — glad you like that site …. my name means STRONG …. I selected it as an online name in 1996 when I first had invasive breast cancer …. I was also a co-host of an online BC chat room …and liked the idea of being strong! By the way ….I do speak Hebrew …. and Spanish..

Token, Welcome! I’m sure you will find some ideas in answer to your question throughout this site. I know I’ve been asked that repeatedly and have given a response more than once. The important thing, though, is that not one or two mystery items keep us from seeing all that we do know, and to keep an open mind until we’ve heard the other side of the story, the one that comes from the only one that has any knowledge about those mystery types of questions. I’m sure that question will be addressed by the defense.

OMG Snoop, what an ordeal. I’m so glad the 2nd officer was able to show you they all aren’t like that but… this is what I was trying to explain in another thread about the abuse of power that can go on. This officer is showing he has the same tendencies as the criminal but has license and inside information to know how to get away with it. If you can’t come up with the money to get help from an attorney he will get away with it unless you can file a complaint with enough detail and proof to get action that way. I had 2 accidents in a short time long ago too. Both were 16 year olds that rear ended me as I was stopped with my left signal on, waiting to make a turn. I was more fortunate in the officers I got and no one was hurt though. I hope you bust this guy and have an opportunity to relay the secret conference between them.

I have seen some hints that something like that is going on in this case too. The info I sent JB, part one already posted here, shows some of what raised my red flags. Also, it is possible to create an illusion by selective inclusion and exclusion.

Hazaka, I envy you. Hebrew is such a rich language. Even the letters themselves, have a meaning. I’ve only studdied on my own a little. I was invited to go to Hebrew school by the local Rabbi when I called him with a perplexing question. I was studying the language as it relates to the ancient Biblical texts. I was impressed that he opened his class to me an did attend for a while. I enjoyed it. The answer to my question is still fascinating to me. I had asked, “Is there any other word in the language that means husband beside baal, בעל ?” He said no. That simple answer gave a whole new meaning to the name Baal and put all men in their proper place, huh?. 😉 Which reminds me, Isn’t the trial set for what was originally the festival of Baal, or Beltain, May 5? Now it is celebrated as May Day, on the 1st and Cinco De Mayo is May 5.

I knew your name means strong because I looked it up but didn’t want to say that outright unless you had chosen the name as the Hebrew form of your real surname. 😉 I went to school with a family of Strongs.

Good morning all. I’m sorry about all your trouble, Snoop–unbeliveable misconduct on the 1st trooper’s part. If I were you, the minute my second case is closed I would go straight to the court clerk’s office to file a detailed written complaint about him. Prejuidice can take so many forms–not just due to race, but you might have an accent (or lack of accent)–any number of things. In college I was rear-ended by a popular sorority girl. I was ticketed. Years later my father told me the insurance company had finally closed the case and ruled that the accident was not my fault–what I had said all along. So your insurance company may be an ally–you might want to fax them any pertinent information that disputes the trooper’s report and testimony.

Snoop, Quite an experience and good you told it in detail to give clear understanding. This kind of behavior does indeed exist within our LE, not all as you also included, but enough that with my own experiences and knowing how they can be capable of twisting the scene and seem to have personal vendettas of their own. Your accident is different than the Anthony case but not different in the possibility and/or probability that error and pre-judgement can be made. This is why for the life of me I can not see why it is so terrible to want to investigate deeply into every aspect of this case, where there is question of a pre-meditated murder not being fact. As before, I do not believe Casey walked out of the house that morning with the thought to murder Caylee. I just don’t believe it, because she had no pre-plan of lies. Surely she would have had BETTER LIES, if a plan. It is the Death Penalty that gripes my gut and the fact that it was laid on so quickly, and the State as far as I know have not revealed why, if so convicted. the State is the one who has brought about such delay in trial. The only reason I can figure their purpose, is to make the defense run around have them seen as fools, and it has happened, convincing a lot of the public to do so. I can accept an accident, and I can accept Casey’s behavior during the 31/30 days as a child who accidentally breaks a cherished vase or something else and doesn’t know what to do, so that kind of lying happens. Just can not accept that anything she did during those days was a pre-planned by Casey. . Certainly not before the case comes to be heard. There seems to be a BIG SECRET and I wonder if we will ever find out what it is.

Oh what a special day for a birthday, Hazaka. You know that also fascinates me about the language? Hebrew hua, pronounced who is English he, he is she, me is who? Also, many of our roots are Hebrew roots reversed, perhaps because our language is written the reverse of Hebrew. Hows that for the tower of Babel or BaBaal. 😉

Comment you are right that if she had planned this she would have done a much better job of lying and covering. She would have left town or at least not put her so close to home. She certainly wouldn’t take a tape with a name brand on it to fake a kidnapping or used a bag like they had at home. She is a fairly intelligent person. Even the way she went about the money stealing was obvious, as if she wanted to get caught. How many people would write their own name on a check that has someone else’s at the top? Not many. You would think she was going through college hazing and was instructed what to do.

Hello Everyone!
Had a great day today, Saints win 31-6! When they win it changes the whole tempo of the city for a week. People are just friendlier, lets say.
Wow Snoopy..I hope that kid is okay. I know how bad you must feel but the LEO sounds like a a jackass, for lack of a better word. I can’t believe he wasn’t sympathetic towards you. It’s not like you were drunk or speeding. It was an accident, for God’s sake and BTW, I don’t think you were at fault. You did stop, you did look..the kid on the bike was obviously speeding or he wouldn’t have skid out of control for 90ft or more.
Something similar happened to me years ago. I was a young driver, driving with 3 small children, 2 belonged to my best friend, the other one was my baby brother. I was at an intersection trying to get across 2 lanes of traffic, I looked and in the 1st lane was a dump truck approaching very slow, the 2nd lane was all clear. I decided to proceed across, when suddenly a car appeared out of no where, he hit me dead on I went into a spin and wrapped around a telephone pole.
Naturally, I was more concerned about getting the kids out of the car. In panic, I grabbed them one by one and put them on the front lawn of the nearest house. This was before cell phones so I banged on the door of the house, they didn’t answer quick enough, so I walked in, a woman was on the phone shocked to see me, LOL…I grabbed the phone out of her hand and told her “look lady, I have 3 kids bleeding on your front lawn and I need an ambulance NOW!!”
OMG, it sounds funny now, but at the time, I was frantic. Luckily, their injuries weren’t as bad as I thought. One suffered a mild concussion, another needed a couple of stitches, and the youngest was allergic to ants, and I accidentally placed her in an ant pile. :sigh:
She actually was in the most danger.
I cannot tell you how this haunted me for years.. I couldn’t believe that I would just pull out in front of a car like that. I got a ticket for failure to yield. A week later when I read the police report, I realized what happened. Behind that slow dump truck was an inpatient teenager (son of a local parish sheriff) who decided to speed up in the right lane in order to pass up the truck. So while he was accelerating his sports car, I was accelerating to cross and he hit me dead center in the right lane.
I felt a little better knowing what happened but I knew I couldn’t fight the ticket. He had the right of way. Here in Louisiana, there is such a thing as “guilty with a statement”.
So that’s what I did when I went to court. I just wanted it on record, that I did look. It mattered not, and I still had to pay the fine and court cost.
In your case, considering the injury of this guy, I would get a lawyer and fight it. You described a dangerous intersection, maybe Florida will try to find a way to make it safer.
Thanks for sharing your story. I wish you the best.

Hi Comment,
I totally agree with this statement: ” I do not believe Casey walked out of the house that morning with the thought to murder Caylee.”
Also the Over-the-top, ridiculous charge of Murder One! GMAB I feel strongly that this was OCSO’s attempt to get a confession out of Casey. Nothing else had worked. Imagine how frustrated these experienced detectives were. They have to face the DA and admit that they failed. The DA relented and offered her partial immunity. When that failed, they dropped the A-Bomb, charging her with Murder one along with the ultimate penalty.
Other thing, I think the SAO’s didn’t expect..They probably thought Casey’s attorney Jose Baez would drop her like a hot potato and she’d have to settle for a public defender. Oh goody…can you imagine what lawyer games they could play with one of their own?? Their favorite “Let’s Make a Deal”.
Oh well, it didn’t happen. Jose Baez is not alone. He has a prominent team of lawyers who will give Casey the best defense possible. This is what every American is entitled to but few are able to afford. This is why our jails are overcrowded and people are now being exonerated almost everyday. Barry Scheck is a God Send. He’s one of the trail blazers of the Innocence Projects in our country, but that’s another topic…
IMHO, Kronk is the weakest part of the case yet. I believe his ranting about the behavior of LEO Cain, who came out to the scene is a red herring. I have a gut feeling about him that he is a set-up (for who or what) ?? IDK

Hi Token. Any place that Caylee was would be a normal place to find her blanket, backpack or any other of her belongings. A laundry bag might even be used to keep extra belongings in like a pillow and other clothing if she was left somewhere on a regular basis. But, the laundry bag and garbage bags, along with the tape are all items that are found in many other homes so I don’t think that is key evidence unless they can show that the bags came from the same lot as the bags taken from the home. They would have produced that report by now, if it were true. As time goes on, they have less and less to support their theory that Casey killed and placed her there. Everyone thought the duck tape would be the smoking gun but it turned out to be a dud firecracker. The only thing that tape has in common with the tape on the gas can is the same brand and same glue that they used on all of their Hinkle tape. I could easily have a roll of tape with that much in common with a roll in your house.

If these don’t help, you might try thehinkymeter.com Val has a site you might find more to your liking. Here you’ll find we question the tape, laundry bag, garbage and many other items of the so-called evidence.
In any case, thanks for stopping anyway.

zuben —
I “like” cinco de mayo” (not that I had any choice 🙂 — just wish my birth year was 1955 — how cool is 5/5/55? And yes –when I learned “me” is “who” “he” is she and “ma” is “what” …etc etc all fascinated me too.
Does anyone here find is odd or …. I guess “interesting” that some still hold fast to “old” ideas re: what Casey did or did not do during the 31 days … what Cindy said during the 911 calls and other aspects that could be explained in a reasonable fashion. And why some cannot move forward and consider other possibilities? There have been some amazing outlandish other cases with strange twists and turns …but the Casey/Caylee issue is considered by many…cut and dry. Somehow, I believe there is so much more we, the public do not know. Hope today is good or better for all.

Yes, I find it interesting that no matter what fact I put out there that raises question in my mind, even all of them put together, many will use any one of those things as an answer or magic fact that cancels out any importance in the facts I put out there. Did you notice how important most thought the Dora Zenaida myspace was when they thought it had to be Casey that created it? Then, after LE told a couple of them that the IP came from, too far away it suddenly isn’t important any more. The tape has been proven to not have come from that roll but it is still proof in many minds that Casey put it there and it was the same because it has the same name on it. Where is the logic in that? All of the facts must fit for it to be true. If any of the facts don’t fit the theory then it needs to be eliminated or adjusted to make sense and fit the facts. I just got to thinking, what are all the possible reasons someone wouldn’t report their child missing.

1. Being the cause of their death, fear of consequences, the popular choice
2. Being in denial, an alternate state of reality, mental deficiency, insanity
3. Monetary gain such as the adoptive parents that were receiving money after the time he went missing, selling the child, etc
4. Not knowing they were in danger, leaving her with a friend that went on vacation with her, etc
5. Blackmail, being held for ransom with threat of death if exposed
6. Knowledge that someone within law enforcement was involved, therefore would further endanger the child (I can’t help but remember that she said she’d talk to FBI but not OCSO personnel.

Any additioal possibilities? Another thing that has puzzled me is the focus on Universal. I’ve already suggested the possibility that some scammer created Universal events at the time that the shift with Colorvision took place at Universal. It is possible that a scammer might have gotten in touch with some of the employees and said, hey look, you can work with us. We are setting up a new division to replace who you were working for and we’ll be doing off site events, or what ever. I don’t know if this is feasible since I don’t know the workings of Universal or if this would be believable to lure people away. But, her focus on Universal seems so pronounced. She said she still worked for them, only told two former coworkers from there about Caylee missing, took LE there…There had to be some reason for this, even if every bit of it was a lie. Where she works doesn’t have a whole lot to do with where she dropped her daughter off or with who. Did she have a reason for choosing all these Universal ties to include in her story? Could one of the people who had an office in that hall where she suddenly stopped and said she was lying, have anything to do with this? So many questions.

Casey Anthony’s defense team has filed a new request to have her Orange County Jail records sealed in light of a new court ruling out of South Florida.

Attorneys Jose Baez and Cheney Mason want the court to seal her jail visitation log records as well as her jail commissary and telephone records….

But the appellate court late last month found that the newspaper was not entitled to any of the recorded phone calls. The ruling found that treating such calls as public records would allow “anyone to request the recorded calls.”

It found that “an accused child should be able to consult with a parent without the communication becoming a public record.”

Finally, the DCA concluded, “An inmate’s personal phone calls do not in any way reflect the actions of government and releasing the calls would not further the purpose of the Public Records act.”

IMO the appeals court has spoken an undeniable truth about the Freedom of information act and the specific Florida Sunshine law. It was never intended to invade the private life of inmates or even those within the government. It was itended to make public, all government activity. Her visits, phone calls, letter, commissary bill, etc are not government activities.

Hello Zuben,
I just want to say, that your hard work has NOT gone unnoticed. I’m listening and I’m hearing you loud and clear. The reasons you listed for NOT reporting your child missing makes clear sense to me. This world we live is evil and things like this happen everyday.
So rock on…
Just had to commend you for telling the truth and opening the door to another way of thinking for those of us who aren’t buying all the media hype.
Thank you very much,
JB

Zuben, I question some of the procedure from OCSO as well. KC wanting to talk to the FBI probably would have lead up the same road. I’m not sure they would have rolled differently. They would have asked the same questions. Baez made sure none of this took place so if KC really had information to relay, it was relayed to Baez who in turn decided to keep his client in jail. Does that make sense?

Too many questions. I’m still waiting on the discovery. I want to see what team Baez came up with in regards to their search for Zaneida and her family, Jeff and Juliet. We are talking close to 8 people that disappeared from the planet. Today I only see them working on forensics and the latest Kronk’s son. I am starting to wonder if it’s time to let go of the Zaneida idea.

The duct tape (funny story)…..I went out in the garage and found 3 rolls of duct tape. 2 by the Scotch Brand and 1 off brand. My thought on this…..would it be possible that the Anthony’s had more than one roll of duct tape and being the same brand?

Token,
It wasn’t my intention to steer you away but it seemed that you came here looking for answers to questions that you already answered. I felt you were baiting us for an answer in order to argue your point. Your point has been made over a thousand times over the internet. At least that’s the way I Interpreted your questions. If not, I apologize.
Do come back any time but please be aware “we are aware”.

damagdpets,
I’m looking around my house and we must have 4 rolls of duct taped scattered here and there. My brother is a pipefitter and I think he left most of them…as a matter of fact. Actually, I couldn’t tell you the last time I bought duct tape. We seem to have a never-ending supply. I think it’s safe to say duct tape is close to impossible to trace to the original roll unless you can match the torn segments. Sooo..Even if the duct tape found on Caylee remains is the same brand..I guess the SAO’s can add it to the list of circumstantial evidence. Not a biggie.

Thanks JB. Damagdpets, yes, I’d thought of the possibility they had purchased more than one roll at a time, even though I never have more than one at a time. I do have more than one scotch tape though because I buy the economy package. I don’t think Henkle duck tape comes that way. Even so, whether packaged together or not, being bought together at the same store, what do you suppose the chances are that they came from completely different lots with the tape in question not even being up to speck on the fabric content? Chances are very slim, I think. The case would contain one lot and that would be shelved in front of or in back of the 2nd case or lot. It is even more likely if that store bought several cases at a time, all would have come from the same lot. I highly doubt though, that George would buy more than one of a specialty tape like that. It is more expensive and needed only for high temp applications. If he had more than one roll I would guess it would be generic dollar store variety. I can tell he is quite a frugal man with his possessions, one example being holding on to the old gas can even though the cap is missing. It still works so he keeps using it rather than buy a new one.

As for Baez keeping her in jail, it just doesn’t work like that. I’ve read and heard attorneys saying the same thing. The only way they could get her out once she was charged is to gather proof of someone else being responsible. That is the work of the detectives but even so, they are doing their own investigation for the sake of their client. It is possible that the evidence has been destroyed that might have exonerated her, after so long. Remember, they weren’t allowed on the scene before it was excavated and cleared of all evidence. They couldn’t even get the garbage bag when they got access to the trunk trash. They have an uphill battle. The most they may hope for, if they can’t find the mystery nanny, or if something else similar happened, is to prove that what they are saying points to Casey doesn’t, or points to someone else. So far, the state is doing a pretty good job of showing the former, such as the testing on the duck tape. Yes, there could have been two rolls but any one else could have owned that roll of tape just as easily. Obviously George didn’t have lots stashed because he had to go buy some more for the tent signs.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-defense-costs-challe20101018,0,4182604.story Get this! the JAC says because Baez has received $89,454.30 for 3 years worth of work he should pay for Finnell’s travel to and from Orlando out of his pocket. In other words, because the state of Florida isn’t being asked to pay any attorney fees they object to paying for costs too. OooohKaaaay! I thought they said no out of state, not no out of towners. I think he’s pissed because they say an attorney should only get a $15,000 flat fee for a capitol case ($3,000 for a life felony) That can be doubled in cases that are proven to require excessive time. They are assuming a case requires 150 hours at $100/hr. Geesh, it might take that long just to sort through all the duplicate and out of order pages of discovery, along with finding the missing pages. 😉 I know, most would have office help doing that but they must expect them to pay for that out of pocket, as part of their overhead, from the sounds of this article. I agree that nearly $90,000 is a hefty compensation for 3 years with one client but I doubt he can take on the number of other clients he normally would, because of the complexity of this case, Who knows, he might have even paid for Henry Lee’s travel or other things out of that. But, I do think he was wrong, IF he agreed to pay D Casey something, that he got paid but Casey didn’t. Do we know if there was a money agreement for sure? I suspect he volunteered then got mad when he found out there was money coming in..

Zuben, The $89,454.30 was spent between AUG 08 and March 2010. This amounted to two years. He claimed at the indigency hearing (March 18, 2008) they were out of money. He accounted for the $89K given to him and $22k given to Lyon, in the court room. The remaining $164k was discussed in camera with Strickland and never released. I’m not sure DC ever got paid and left to help the Anthony’s. I do think that happened after it was reported that ABC gave KC $200K. Henry Lee…..remember funny man Mason claiming in court that Lee would work for a box of oranges. Lee like the others will make their money after trial. I still would like to see how all the money was spent early on with not one deposition taken. It was after the indigency hearing and the JAC that depos started and forensic people started to show up. I don’t know how all the attorneys KC has are affording their time but I do know she could have had a couple of court appointed attorneys instead of the six head hunters she has. Can you imagine the thousands that go to trial with out the representation that KC is getting? Perfect example: Look at what happened to Misty Croslin, 25 yrs but I read a story of a sheriff’s son having a meth lab and operating it with his 2 yer old son there. He got 2 years…..quite the system isn’t it……..

The story you share is one example of the injustice that just burns me, Grrr! She’ll probably end up with several life sentences by the time they are done with her and she was probably set up.We’ll have to keep an eye on the former Miller employee to see if she gets out super early.

I’ve wondered if the money or part of the money that came from Andrea Lyon’s charity came from their funds. It is tax deductible and I’m sure they may not have had tons of money to help just one death penalty case. Casey may have given it to one of the attorneys to give to them so there would be money for Andrea to help. That might be considered private or privileged and only shared in camera. As for all the help coming to her rescue, I have to believe it is based on principle, the reason they chose helping defendants rather than prosecuting. I know one attorney who switched sides but he did it for the money and he defended his client as if he were prosecuting or just there for the money too. He was smart enough to practice away from his home town, commuted 1 1/2 hours one way. You should see the statue of Lady Justice on his home court house, completely out of balance. Shameful.

ZubenElSchemali
October 18, 2010 at 12:34 pm
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Hey Zuben –was pretty much off yesterday, but I must say — your 12:34 pm post was brilliant and most inciteful! Thanks for taking the time to list of of the possibities ….I am sure there may be more — perhaps a take on one of yours,….. she, Casey was “threatened” and was told the family would suffer if she went to the authorities…. such things do, and have happened.
Your participation makes this blog most interesting. 🙂

Zuben,
The Miller employee you mentioned is Donna Brock and was sentenced to 15 years. Under what she was charged with she has to serve a minimum of 80-85% of her sentence before any release consideration. This has to do with the minimum mandatory drug related sentencing in Florida.

Oh, they have the manditory statute. Still, she set it up and got less than Misty. Why doesn’t she have multiple charges and I still wonder if she will suddenly get a deal and be out. The cop’s wife that involved herself with Casey was up for a drug charge and must have been hoping for something. She went to a lot of trouble to preserve her “evidence”.

Thank you for taking the time to write on this topic. It is rather valuable when compared to the other gibberish I’ve read from Hal Boedeker’s perspective. It could not have come at a better time for me! I was about to give up until I found this place. Thanks to those nasty bloggers I found you! Keep up the good work.