Gates, Rice say Russia will face consequences

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said two decades of work to bring Russia into the international community must be reassessed in the wake of its actions in Georgia, while Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice warned that Russia's actions "look like they do belong to the Soviet Union."

The Bush administration's two senior defense and foreign affairs officials made the rounds of the Sunday talk shows with harsh words for Russia, citing consequences for Moscow but offering few specifics.

"There's no doubt there will be further consequences," Rice said on "Fox News Sunday." "There have already been significant consequences for Russia."

She said, for instance, that "any notion that Russia was the kind of responsible state, ready to integrate into international institutions" is now a nation "in tatters."

Gates said Russia's march toward integration, encouraged by the United States, is being reevaluated. "I think that there has been an effort by three successive American presidents to try and coax Russia into an integrated role in the international community," Gates said on ABC's "This Week." "We thought that they were headed in that direction. ... We now have to reevaluate all that."

On CBS's "Face the Nation," Rice said Russia wants to have it both ways. "It wants to be part of these institutions that are so essential to the international economy and the international order," she said. But "it wants to engage in, kind of, Soviet- style behavior of intimidating and invading allies- or neighbors."

The secretary of state defended President Bush for forging a close relationship with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, saying it is Russia that wasted an opportunity.

"What the president has done is to open a path for Russia that would have been different than the path of the Soviet Union, ..." she said. "Russia that has misjudged what would happen if it did not take that path."

Rice said Russia is not complying with a cease-fire reached Saturday between Georgia and Russia, with troops still occupying parts of undisputed Georgian territory.

"It's not acceptable," Rice said. "It has nothing to do, obviously, with the conflict that began in South Ossetia."

Gates said the ultimate consequences for Russia would depend on how quickly they comply with the cease-fire. "I think that the whole world is looking at Russia through a different set of lenses. ... The longer they take to get out and to observe the cease-fire that's been declared and the arrangements that have been worked out, I think the greater those consequences will be," he said.

On CNN Late Edition, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili said Russians are not relenting. "Russia has given continuous promises to hold [to the ceasefire], but in fact, they are continuing their actions. They are ... widening their zone of occupation," he said.

The chairman of the Russian parliament's foreign affairs committee, Konstantin Kosachev, said troops would leave Georgia, depending on circumstances.

"Sooner or later, yes. But how much time it will take, it depends, definitely, on how Georgians will continue to behave," he said.

For a second week, the Russia-Georgia conflict spilled over into the presidential election.

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), a top supporter of Barack Obama, said John McCain's aggressive response to the conflict "began to ring like a political campaign instead of principled and strong diplomacy."

On Fox, she said it is "presumptuous is to try to undercut in any way the very difficult and tricky work that President Bush and Secretary Rice are trying to do right now."

Former Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge, a big McCain backer, called McCain's response appropriate. "He called for an international peacekeeping force. He called for humanitarian aid. He called it exactly what it is -- unprovoked aggression," Ridge said.

"If we were Georgians and the Russians were invading our country and killing our people, we'd bet in a state of war," he said. "John sometimes ... [is] given to this kind of bellicose rhetoric, which has a tendency to inflame conflicts rather than to diffuse them."

But Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota said McCain has precisely the type of judgment one wants in a president. As an example, Pawlenty (R) cited McCain's early support for the troop increase in Iraq, which has helped to reduce violence.

"Senator Obama to this day, to this day denies the value and the strategic benefit of the surge," Pawlenty said.

But Obama supporter Thomas A. Daschle, former Democratic majority leader from South Dakota, said the obsession with Iraq over the years has distracted from important issues as Russia's relations with its neighbors.

"Because the Bush-McCain approach has been to focus almost exclusively on Iraq over the last five years, a lot of these issues have gone without the kind of attention they deserve," he said.

Comments

McCain does not have the judgment needed to be president anybody with half a brain knows it. The GOP once again is trying to bamboozle the American electorate with garbage...George W Bush was garbage and proved to be worse than garbage as the pretend president...McCain is worse...an empty old shirt without a clue. The Bush administration looks and sounds terrible in the face of the Russian/Georgian conflict...all of the statements ring hollow and hypocritical. Russia had more justification to go into Georgia than we did to illegally attack and occupy Iraq...Georgia did provoke Russia, egged on by the criminal idiot George W Bush: Russia reacted or overreacted...but they flexed their muscle...and showed up George W Bush and exposed our idiot president for what he is: a weak cowardly, impotent, incompetent, corrupt noodle brained pretender.

Posted by: castillomark | August 17, 2008 4:05 PM

Mwahahaha, I really enjoy seeing Putin stick the long and hard one up the collective keisters of Little Bush & co. (In a time when no one seems to be able to rein in the Washington criminals, not even the Democratic congress, you accept any help you can get.) And all Little Condi can do is whine and hiss through the gap in her teeth after the Russians spanked their Kakashvili lapdog. Little Bush & co. never stop stirring the shiite, and then they are surprised when a stink arises. What a collection of gangsters, it's as if the Mafia had taken control of the U.S. government (no insult to the Mafia is intended.) As for Bob Gates who said "we thought that [the Russians] were headed in [the] direction [of an integrated role in the international community] ... We now have to reevaluate all that." Ahem, how much are we spending on the intelligence services again? Is it a permanent thing that we will hear from the "intelligence" services from now on that yes, they have WMD, no, they don't, according to who asks the question? The fact is that nothing that our government asserts can be taken at face value or believed to be true. The right-wingers have no regard for the truth; they routinely lie in order to achieve their fascists goals. And what's worse, they lie with impunity. Just look at the way they lied us into the Iraq war. What a miserable, contemptible bunch of shiite-birds. But the electorate is little better, uncritically swallowing the lies of their "leaders." Collectively, we got what we thoroughly deserved, right up where the sun don't shine.

"There's a real concern that Russia has turned a corner here and is headed back to its past rather than its future," Gates

Why is it the U.S. believes that it can get away with lying? True that Russia has been gradually becoming more authoratarian, so are the Americans. Russia probably would be more democratic if the U.S. and its European allies had not been bent on weaking, cornering, and encircling Russia instead of trying to support the democratic institutions. Does anyone buy the lies that the missle defense in Poland is meant to Iran. I have to laugh every time U.S. leaders utter this lie.

Posted by: freespirit | August 17, 2008 4:33 PM

"..stick the long and hard one up the collective keisters of Little Bush & co."
Washington Post moderators talk of full rules. What a sick buch you lefties.
Just like Putin you are showing your true colors. God Bless America and God Bless Freedom and Democracy in the World, in spite of Dictators and their ardent supporters in the Left.

Posted by: george washington | August 17, 2008 4:40 PM

The comments that Ms.Rice and Secretary Gates have made on the situation in Georgia has been always theatening Russia with all sorts of ways, as if Russia was a litle obscure country in the boonies. I do not think this is the right way to solve problems of this magnitude. The combination of gret power and great arrogance is simply stupid.

Posted by: Fernando A.Santos | August 17, 2008 5:12 PM

The comments that Ms.Rice and Secretary Gates have made on the situation in Georgia has been always theatening Russia with all sorts of ways, as if Russia was a litle obscure country in the boonies. I do not think this is the right way to solve problems of this magnitude. The combination of gret power and great arrogance is simply stupid.

Posted by: Fernando A.Santos | August 17, 2008 5:15 PM

I am a bit surprised by the reaction of the Western world to the Russian's invasion of Geogia. When Bush & McCain state that in the 21st Century, nations don't invade other nations, do they mean that the 21st century started after 2003, when we invaded Iraq without any provocations? What price did the US pay for invading another sovereign country? And what are 2000 Georgian troops doing helping in te illegal occupation of Iraq? And what about that missile defense system in Poland? Apparently, it is designed to protect Europe against non existant Iranien missiles. In the last 50 years, can anybody recall the Iraniens invading a neighbour, let alone having a desire to conquer Western Europe? What rationale would Iran have to lob nuclear missile to France, Germany, or Britain? Once again, we are being subjected to lies by our government. They knew that if they told us that they needed to invade Iraq to build bases and control the middle east, no one would support them, so they settled on WMD. And they know that if they came right out and said the missile defense systems was aimed at neutralizing Russian's threat, no one would go for it. So they have to claim to defend Western Europe against Iran. Why isn't Western Europe concerned about the Iranien threats? They seem to be getting long fine with the Iranien, judging by all the trade deals that they have with the Iraniens.

Posted by: Fabian Smith | August 17, 2008 5:18 PM

It sounds like the Russian blog machine is on here trying to make Astroturf grow like grass roots. Rice and Gates are not lying. That's the sort of cant I used to hear on Radio Moscow. Russia has certainly used disproportionate power in response to any Georgian move.

Communists and their fellow travelers are trying to pollute the debate. Go home.

Posted by: GAB in Odenton | August 17, 2008 5:20 PM

Russia won't leave until our jets and tanks and ships get into the game. Till then Russia will make excuses and delay and delay and delay.

Posted by: Blake Southwood | August 17, 2008 5:21 PM

Doesn't those 2 idiots knows that Georgia was the one who started the war.

Posted by: chris | August 17, 2008 5:22 PM

The way politics works in domestic-foreign policy in the United States is disgusting. People in government seek advantage by demonizing another country.

Posted by: Bengt Larsson | August 17, 2008 5:24 PM

"We are Georgians" simple means that we support the Georgia. Don't think too far.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 5:30 PM

What consequences should we face for invading, overthrowing, and occupying Iraq?

We're in no position to condemn Russia.

Posted by: Jon | August 17, 2008 5:32 PM

It's very telling that all those anti-war protesters don't protest when their master Putin starts rolling over former soviet states.

Posted by: SKR | August 17, 2008 5:51 PM

Fernando A Santos wrote:

The combination of gret power and great arrogance is simply stupid.
--------

Worse are those with little power, little intellect, but great arrogance.

You see both in Washington, and Moscow.

A match made in heaven, apparently.

Posted by: The Mighty Spud, Command | August 17, 2008 6:09 PM

"george washington" wrote: "God Bless Freedom and Democracy in the World." I agree. The operative word, however, is "and." For in this country we have democracy, what we don't have is freedom. If anybody doubts it, they can refer to the more than 2 million Americans in prison and jail. This land of the free, so-called, has more people locked up than *any* other country on the planet, including the big, bad communist states. So that must mean that we Americans are worse people than any other in the world, no? I think it means that we have a rotten and slimy government run by prison-packers who have invested in private prisons in order to make a profit off the convicts, and it demonstrates that you can have a despotic tyranny masking as a "democracy," a miserable, right-wing, SWAT-driven police state that conceals itself behind phrases such as "ordered liberty," "law enforcement community," and the insufferable hypocrisy of "for the protection of the Children." In America the politicians routinely stoke people's fears in order to get elected so that they can loot the public purse while pretending to sit on a moral high horse, supported by the religious of all stripes. To top it off, the despicable right-wingers, who have turned this country into a cesspool of crooks and liars, are now trying to foist upon us the deranged McCain who wants to re-fight the Vietnam war, being ignorant of anything else. And I'm willing to bet that the craven, cowardly electorate will vote him into office. From experience with the American sheeple, it's a slam dunk.

Posted by: zorbathegeek | August 17, 2008 6:21 PM

Firstly: Georgians voted in [free and fair elections] overseen by international election monitors, and CHOSE President Saakashvili who advocated integration with the west, and NOT Russia.
Secondly: Over months, the Russians built up a staging post in South Ossetia and Abkhazia from which to launch an invasion, South Ossetians were issued Russian passports as a Russian tactic to create Russians to protect, Russian backed South Ossetian Militia are now roaming South Ossetia and, like in Bosnia, are rounding up and killing as many teenage boys and men under 60 they can kill.
Thirdly: By contrast, President Medvedev was elected as the consequence of an election process riven by intimidation and corruption, which can fairly be compared in quality to that of Zimbabwe's most recent Presidential election.

Posted by: Charles Smyth | August 17, 2008 6:27 PM

To Zorba Goebbels, Karen von Gerhke-Hitler, freespirit a/k/a mao tse-tung, and Fabian the al-Qaeda sympathizer; The Iraqi people asked us to come to their country and free them from the terroristic rule of Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. I have a nephew in the USMC who's got more guts than any of you propaganda-spewing terrorists combined. I myself would like to meet up with you face to face with my nephew by my side. God BLESS the USA and all of our troops! Where were you brain donors when he was in Iraq risking his life and limb?

Posted by: Jonnie A | August 17, 2008 6:28 PM

Yeah, let's bring on the Messiah Sen. Obama. For all those loonies out there who believe that Russia assesses the world situation as we do, are just that loonies. Russia will test any new president to see how far they can go. They have always done it in the past and will continue to do so. Russia only respects one thing strength. They believe that America and the West are weak and fragmented now and from reading these boards, they're right.

As for the comment about the missile defense shield in Poland threatening Russia, you've got to be kidding. They are 10 little defensive NOT offensive missiles. How ridiculous to assume they are pointed at Russia. Russia has thousands of ICBM's missiles each with multiple war head . Let's see if Poland shoots down 10 missiles meaning Russia would have to attack first since the missiles in Poland are not first strike weapons that would leave the Russians with several thousand ICBM left and that's a threat. Give me a break!

Posted by: Dan | August 17, 2008 6:35 PM

Why Bush and Co. can't retire their stupidity. American public is smart enough to know that we do not want to start another so called cold war to benefit military industrial complexes. Let us focus on how to pay our darn monthly bills not billions of dollars for your deceptive policies.

Posted by: Bush Who | August 17, 2008 6:37 PM

WTF were we selling the Georgians weapons, helicopters, training their military for anyway?

I think the Armed Services Committee and Foreign Policy committees need to have a hearing to better understand what the Administration's policy really was concerning Georgia in general.

Conservatives, Libertarians, and Liberals ALL would take to the streets if our government went after our "separatists" with military weapons, leveled a couple of cities say for example in Montana.

Remember how the libertarians and conservatives reacted to saving the young girls and women from being molested in Waco Texas?

Imagine how they would react to something on the same scale as what the Georgian president did.

Bush, Rice, and company really have to answer to this foreign policy blunder -- they fumbled the football again.

This time they tried to start another cold war, for who's benefit?

Posted by: frank | August 17, 2008 6:38 PM

we have a bunch of commie traitors on this blog and you know who you are santos,jon and other useful idiots.no Georgia did not start the war this is a russian land grab.only a fool would try to compare russian greed with america kicking the crap out of saddam however there seems to be no shortage of fool here.i see a lot of anti americans in these blogs and i think all of you should all leave for cuba,china or russia where you will be happy.now get out!

Posted by: bruce | August 17, 2008 6:55 PM

GATES AND RICE ARE SOCIOPATHS. BUSH AND CHENEY ARE WORSE. WAR BETWEEN THE US AND RUSSIA WOULD BE A CIVIL WAR BETWEEN TWO NATIONS OF EUROPEAN ORIGIN WHO SHOULD BE ALLIES TO KEEP THE PEACE OF THE WORLD.

Posted by: Rick | August 17, 2008 7:00 PM

Johnnie wrote: "I myself would like to meet up with you face to face with my nephew by my side." (Background music: "Macho, Macho Man, I wanna be a Macho Man") You mean to say you'd be able to tear yourself away from the Nascar races on TV long enough? And when you came face to face with any of us you'd do what, exactly? A typical American Macho Man with a typical American bully response. Don't forget to bring your brewski.

Posted by: zorbathegeek | August 17, 2008 7:09 PM

Wake up people.

The US invasion of Iraq and the continued incoherent foreign policy of the Bush administration should not be used to justify what Russia is up to in Georgia.

Since when do two wrongs make a right?

The Russian invasion was pre-planned (read Pavel Helgenfaur articles of Aug 7 and 14 on the Eurasian Daily Monitor website).

Putin is more concerned with stifling democracy in his 'near abroad' than protecting the rights of the South Ossetians.

Cynical exploitation of ethnic tension in the area by the Russian government proves that protecting Russian interests in the area is a smokescreen that has already unfortunately fooled many in Europe and the US.

For the past several years, leaders of the Russian Federation have claimed that Russia is not 'respected.' Sorry, Vladimir, if you want to receive respect, you first have to give respect.

If Putin and his country want respect in international affairs, they must find a way to stop being a bully.

Posted by: marshallman | August 17, 2008 7:18 PM

screw you gates and rice.

if ANY country should be held accountable for their actions, it should be the united states.

go arrest george bush if you want retribution for illegal actions.

Posted by: BOB | August 17, 2008 7:26 PM

"Russia won't leave until our jets and tanks and ships get into the game. Till then Russia will make excuses and delay and delay and delay."

Your jets (including F-22), tanks and ships will be all crashed by Russian military might within couple minutes... you piece of American garbage...

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 7:33 PM

i'm not sure what part of this you right winger don't understand...

but... EUROPE IS NOT OWNED BY THE U.S.

at least the last time i checked it wasn't.. the u.s. has NO BUSINESS interferring in the middle east.. in eastern europe.. or in eastern asia.

WE HAVE NO F*ING BUSINESS THERE.

UNDERSTAND?

you people are pathetic.. you wouldn't know what democracy was if it jumped up and bit you on that big a$$ of yours.

the united states has a really warped sense of what democracy is. we have spent almost a TRILLION dollars in iraq, on the PRETENSE of creating a democracy there.. the u.s. has spent almost 600 MILLION dollars on the world's largest embassy... that embassy covers an area the size of EIGHTY FOOTBALL FIELDS... the u.s. also has constructed 13 new military air bases throughout iraq...

WHERE IS THE DEMOCRACY HERE???

THIS IS CALLED "INVADE AND CONQUER".

Posted by: BOB | August 17, 2008 7:36 PM

To all of you guys with safety valves blown off over Putin's misadventure - stock up on bromide or something. Not only he was not able to prevent alternative oil and pipelines to the West, he got Russia isolated and on the way to pariah state status.

Posted by: vorsn | August 17, 2008 7:40 PM

US government are a bunch of hypocrites. Get the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan first and then talk about Russia. Georgia attacked first they deserve to be annihilated.

Posted by: Chicago | August 17, 2008 7:46 PM

As I see this web site became a place of Kremlin military propaganda by the army of their trained agents commissioned to justify the brutal Russian occupation, rather than a place for exchange of ideas.

Posted by: Antifascist | August 17, 2008 7:47 PM

Russian fascist bastards, who are occupying this website for dirty fascist anti-West propaganda, you WILL BE PUNISHED for your aggression. And fck off this and all the world forums! Go to hell!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 7:51 PM

You see Americans? The Russian satanists have been dumbfound and shut up. It will not last for a long although.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 7:56 PM

just like to quote from some other site: "for whatever reason, they (leftists here and in Russia) are always convinced that impression trumps reality (or is able to create one). The more their butts are set on fire, the more they praise their "victories" and the opponents "defeats". As situation worsens more and more, such claims become more and more outrageous and language grows hilariously threatening and foul. As libs would say - it's their culture. "

Posted by: vorsn | August 17, 2008 7:57 PM

Nazi Americans decided to post their retarted opinions.

Posted by: Chicago | August 17, 2008 8:02 PM

Dear vorsn, they are not American leftists. They are bloody Putin agents brainwashing the world. The same is in all the main world discussion web sites - since their invasion began, everywhere only they are heard, justifying the aggression, cursing the US and democracy. Be vigilant!

Posted by: anti-fascist | August 17, 2008 8:07 PM

To anti-fascist: yes, you are right. They did expect quite a different outcome obviously. Tbilisi taken with 2 or 3 days and by now "friendly" puppet Government there with oil and mainly gas transport in Russian complete monopoly. Seeing them running amok is already priceless. Don't you recall how that "we will bury you" mighty helped them in the past...

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 8:14 PM

Yes but the bastards seem preparing to storm Tbilisib now. The new Hitler must be stopped before it is too late.

Posted by: anti-fascist | August 17, 2008 8:20 PM

Thank God that americans are not as "clever" as their goverment. Some of them guessed the real situation.

Posted by: Russian Boy | August 17, 2008 8:24 PM

Georgia broke away from Russia in the 1990s. South Ossetia broke away from Georgia in the 1990s. If Georgia continue to claim South Ossetia, why can't Russia claim Georgia? It seems to me that Georgia didn't expect Russia to react the way they did. As punishment for attacking South Ossetia, South Ossetia should decide their own faith. They should be given a choice (1.) Become a part of Georgia, (2.) Become a part of Russia, and (3.) Become an independent nation governing themselves.

Posted by: Barbara Bush | August 17, 2008 8:25 PM

Can someone explain to me what business does US have in that region anyways, maybe I'm missing something. And if Russia and Iran team up its not going to be a good show. America has half of the world as enemies now. Just to name a few (Russian, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, Japan).

Posted by: Chicago | August 17, 2008 8:31 PM

Getting pretty heated here. Anonimous and Chicago are pretty strange. I suspect they are a couple of kids pulling all our legs. The spelling and broken sentences are pretty funny. Anyway, I am sure they don't really think Americans are Nazis and certainly can't imagine the Russian military could stand against the American military. Pretty funny.
If they are not a couple of kids, then let's hope that the Russians are smarter than to take on the USA. We don't want anything Russia has. We just wish Russia didn't want everything the other countries have. They see, they take. Recipe for more trouble than they could possibly want. The Iraq thing is nothing like the Georgia thing. Sorry but good try though. Iraq was a costly mistake for we Americans, but we will hopefully remedy this soon.

Best to all of you and pray that the Russians leave NOW! They don't want to be there if we have to come over there.

Posted by: the watcher 2 | August 17, 2008 8:37 PM

Why don't all of you just focus on our country. While our so called government spends OUR MONEY on military crap and don't give a damn about us, we have to suffer from gas prices, mortgage interest rates and so on. By now we could've built another USA with all that money. US helps Georgia while our people live on the street how ironic.

Posted by: Chicago | August 17, 2008 8:38 PM

Barbara (if you are really American, not a Russian propaganda agent), pls don't believe their propaganda lies destined to conceal their true aims of the invasion - to reverse history, to crash the advance of democracy, to humiliate America, to grasp all the main oil routs to strangle the West.
"Georgia broke away from Russia in the 1990s." - no, it became independent automatically with the collaps of the USSR. "South Ossetia broke away from Georgia in the 1990s." - no, Russians immediately started inspiring Ossetians to separatiism, providing them with weapons for terror acts, distributing Russian passports between them. And in general, Russia has absolutely no moral right to care about Ossetia independence after they have killed more than 500.000 chechens to crash their struggle for independence. Hopefully I have convinced you

Posted by: anti-fascist | August 17, 2008 8:42 PM

Really, the Koz Kidz here are something! Or are they just Russian agents? (The Soviets and their Warsaw Pact allies were masters at creating useful idiots.)

The big reason Georgia wanted those "breakaway" territories back was because they are beachheads for the Russians, who have a staggering history of imperialism. And no, that territory is neither Russian nor Georgian, really. But it cannot go to Russia. And if those who live there cannot be counted on to be independent, the area goes to Georgia BECAUSE IT IS IN AMERICA'S INTEREST THAT IT NOT GO TO RUSSIA.

The useful idiots here are the only ones who think Russia is honorable. They also think that the US government is not supposed to advance US interests.

We need MORE military action and less jaw-boning. The useless Euros have shown, once again, how they were dominated by Hitler. They don't learn. They are children, thinking that their "soft power" means anything. Having disarmed over the decades, they are even more cowardly than they were in the 1930s.

Posted by: sk | August 17, 2008 8:47 PM

Great speech. You have something to back up all of that bull you said MR FASCIST. Focus on your country, or you're one of the bastards that gets rich off of middle class people. That's probably it.

Posted by: Chicago | August 17, 2008 8:47 PM

Chicago, bloody fascist spy, stop cheating Americans! Rather tell the truth - how you hate democracy, the US and the West, how great Russia and Putin are, how they must be let to rule the world.

Posted by: anti-fascist | August 17, 2008 8:48 PM

SK The only military action US can come up with is inside the bathroom. US will be annihilated by Russia if it comes to that. Learn history first dude what did Hitler dominate ur moma.
US interest is to throw ur cash into thin air.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 8:52 PM

yo FASCIST you like democracy then tell me which path is US on. WORLD DOMINANCE. That must be it.

Posted by: sk | August 17, 2008 8:55 PM

anti-fascist,
No, you did not convince me. South Ossetia shed blood to break away from Georgia. They won!!!! They should determine their own fate. Clearly, they do not want to be a part of Georgia. No country should be able to force them to be a part of Georgia. The topic at hand is Georgia/South Ossetia, not Chechens. One question: Does anyone give a "darn" about the people of South Ossetia?

Posted by: Barbara Bush | August 17, 2008 9:02 PM

you russian liars. The US and the West are champions of democracy and order in the world, against terrorists, agressors and bandits like you. This is exactly why you hate us so much. The US has never ANNEXED territories belonging to other countries while whole your bloody history is an endless chain of agressive wars to expand your borders, to conquer and enslave peoples. Do you want me to list your crimes of this kind? You know them better than me you pathetic propaganda bastards.

Posted by: antifascist | August 17, 2008 9:07 PM

Definitely not US. Mr Mccaine said those people should leave their own territory. South Ossetia clearly want nothing to do with Georgia or US for that matter. US just needs the pipeline.

Posted by: Chicago | August 17, 2008 9:09 PM

Yes FASCIST list them. Who invaded IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN. No said anything to US because it wasn't anyone else's business but US has to stick their nose in everything.

Posted by: Chicago | August 17, 2008 9:12 PM

ok barbara, now tell us your opinion about mass killings of georgians the ossetian being commiting while guarded by russian occupants these days. did you hear about ethnic cleansings in georgian villages of Ossetia their "president" was boasting of to journalists?

Posted by: anti-fascist | August 17, 2008 9:13 PM

Oh sure Liar in Chief George W Bush will just stomp his cowboy boots and rant and rave and whine at the Russians,while idiot
Condoleezza Rice does her usual talking in
endless circles,while saying nothing and
Draft Dodger Cheney will go check the ICBM
Nuclear and Thermanuclear Warheads in escathy at the thought of starting a Nuclear WW 3 with Russia and China!

While meanwhile National Socialist Democrat
Liberal Loser Barack Hussein Obama will run
off on another Hawiian vacation and hide.

Just Another Independent Voter Against Obama in 2008 and Forever! NOBAMA!

No, that's not what it means; what "We Are Georgians" means, is that "we are with you", we are there for you; we're working with you...; it cannot simply mean we support you without substance. What it looks like is that the Russians know how to conduct a war, quick and effective, and take the criticism; and then tell the world, we knew what we had to do and we did it.

We, on the other hand, have a presidential candidate (and I'm not picking on Senator McCain), who apparently talks daily with the senior Georgian leadership, taking the presidential mantle and saying we, the nation, the people of the United States, are one with you. But there's no follow-through. At least nothing in the pipeline.

Posted by: Dungarees | August 17, 2008 9:20 PM

russian spy chicago! you are lying. iraq and afganistan are not and will not be included into the US. The list of your russians agressive wars involving annexation of whole nations or parts of territories and adding them to your stinking empire only for the lst 100 years : Finland, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Japan,Kazachstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgystan, Turkistan, Afganistan, now Georgia. Shut your bloody stained mouths about America, you Russian bandits !

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 9:22 PM

anti-fascist,
No, I have not heard any of that (for some reason I don't think it's true). In fact, I would not believe anything coming from either side: Georgia or South Ossetia. All I know is South Ossetia fought a war with Georgia in 1991 and won. They should determine their own fate. They do not want to be a part of Georgia, and they should not have too.

Posted by: Barbara Bush | August 17, 2008 9:24 PM

to barbara. let osetians do whatever they want. BUT Bloody Russian murderers, stop killing Georgians! Stop your occupation of Georgian citites, looting and killings! Get out and back to your cursed empire of Evil!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 9:29 PM

Speaking of aggression dude chill out your mommy is calling you.
Anonymous
"iraq and afganistan are not and will not be included into the US."
I can see that what are our troops doing in there then. US are terrorist just like you man. What is Georgia troops doing in Iraq also. You are RUSSIAN and MUSSLIM haters.

Posted by: Chicago | August 17, 2008 9:29 PM

If anyones EVIL thats AMARICANS
STOP UR AGGRESSION RACISTS

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 9:31 PM

McSame is declaring "We are All Georgians." Since when?? Hey, Johnboy, Georgian President Saaki wanted to taunt the Russian bear with his own bellicose rhetoric and now his country is being dissected much like Saaki aspired to do with W in Iraq. Iraq did less to provoke an invasion by the US than Georgia did with Mother Russia, but in an ironic twist of fate, Tblisi is occupied by a foreign power just like Baghdad. So what is McSame gonna do to Putin now, bore him to tears with more hollow threats?

Posted by: SM in NorCal | August 17, 2008 9:35 PM

you muslim morons! do you know that russians keep killing you in moscow a dozen every day calling you "dirty black monkeys". Do you know why? Because there are no Africans there, so blacks are you for them, Hahahaha

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 9:36 PM

SM I appreciate your comment I totally agree with you. US can't do anything to Russia they just agitate them by making stupid comments. US is a sitting duck.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 9:39 PM

Anonymous,
Do you think Russia would be in Georgia now if Georgia's stupid president had not ordered an attack on South Ossetia? The president of Georgia should shoulder some of the blame for Russia being in Georgia. He started all this, and then wanted someone else to come to his defense. Define leadership, and ask yourself if Georgia's president fits the bill? If he does, then ask yourself why is Russia occupying Georgia.

Posted by: Barbara Bush | August 17, 2008 9:39 PM

Anonymous why you gotta be RACIST you go out and kill em yourself dont you bastard

Posted by: Chicago | August 17, 2008 9:40 PM

Hey Anonymous, u need to relax-or maybe your shrink needs to increase your meds-whatever happened to having a civilized discussion-or are you guys ALL psychotics??

Posted by: SM in NorCAl | August 17, 2008 9:47 PM

The arrogant trash state called Amerika needs to shut it's GD pie hole and quit worrying about others. We have plenty of problems here at home and are, in fact, a pox on the world. The bum called Amerika needs to quit begging money from the rest of the world while telling it what to do. The a-hole called Amerika is an aggressive, loud-mouthed lout who needs a good thrashing behind the bar.

Posted by: Red Dawn | August 17, 2008 9:48 PM

ANybody see the Russia "Expert" Dr. Rice-this morning on the news networks? Sounds like Putin and Medvedev have stolen her thunder and revealed her and her inept boss to be the true imbeciles they are-expert, my ass!!

Posted by: SM in NorCal | August 17, 2008 9:51 PM

Red Dawn
America is getting(stealing) money from us tax payers. Now we know where our taxes go on military installations in Poland and Czech Republic

Posted by: Chicago | August 17, 2008 9:54 PM

Gates, rice, terrorists bush, cheney- all war criminals- they have No right to sday anything !

Posted by: ringo | August 17, 2008 10:14 PM

McCain's campaign manager (the lobbyist) tells his clients, the Georgians, to go ahead and invade. America has your back, The Russians won't do anything. He knows that if he can start a little action in that region of the war, it might help his wrinkled, whited haired candidate. So Russia replies, Big Time, demonstrating, one and for all that Bush and Company have bankrupted America financially, militarily, morally and diplomatically.

Bush/Cheney/McCain. No More Years!!!

Posted by: thebob.bob | August 17, 2008 10:16 PM

Wow, those "putin boys" do look like a lunatic asylum on an open Sunday. Thanks to them People's Cube and Scarppleface seems to be getting a tough competion now in political spoofing from the WaPo. Bush's fault all around.

Posted by: vorsn | August 17, 2008 10:50 PM

Saakashvili: "We Are Fighting For New World....

...Order"

That didn't work out so good...

I bet that's the last time Saakashvili fires artillery into a town full of Russians.

Posted by: Rubiconski | August 17, 2008 10:51 PM

NEWSFLASH, Whitehouse - In a surprising announcement today, George Bush said in a televised news conference that Russia will have to face tough consequences for their actions against the United States proposed new statehood candidate which will become number 53, behind Israel at number 51, and Iraq at number 52.

When prompted by reporters, the President was hesitant to say what the consequences would be, but Condoleeza Rice, who wishes to remain anonymous because she is not authorized to speak said, "George Bush is going to Russia this week and kick Vladimir Putin's a$$. And George can do it too." Miss Rice, added to our reporter, also anonymously. "George Bush is awesome. He was a cheerleading queen in college. He knows 1001 ways to do the splits on a freshly mowed lawn without getting grass stains on his panty's crotch. Their Putin on the other hand, was only an officer for the KGB. Although it is widely known that KGB are among the strictest disciplines in secret police forces, can he do the splits on grass? I think not. My money is on George Bush. Besides as well, we got George a brand new cheerleading skirt, sweater, socks, and sneakers for the event. It is a really glittery red, white, and blue, and the megaphone the President is going to use has a big golden "W" on it. It's simply breathtaking. So, all in all, we are expecting a pretty good week for cheers for democracy... Oh wait, if you listen now, you can hear President Bush practicing for the meeting now....."

So.... The US sets up a puppet regime, forces a "missile Shield" and NATO membership on its client states, exempts India's and Pakistan's nuclear arsenal from oversight, induces Georgia to bombard S, Osettia, turns down Russia's request at the UN Security Council to call for a cease fire (AFTER over 1,000 S. Osettians were killed and BEFORE Russian troops entered), ignores the S. Osettia referendum to secede, and now Sects Rice and Gates try to paint the Russians as the "bad guys". And make matters worse by foisting a "missile shield" on Poland. Thank God for the Germans and French who don't support the US military bullying!

Fool me once, fooey on you. Fool me twice, fooey on me.

Posted by: erichwwk | August 17, 2008 11:22 PM

"
About This Feature | RSS Feed (What's RSS?) | More Politics News
Gates, Rice say Russia will face consequences
Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said two decades of work to bring Russia into the international community must be reassessed in the wake of its actions in Georgia, while Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice warned that Russia's actions "look like they do belong to the Soviet Union."

The Bush administration's two senior defense and foreign affairs officials made the rounds of the Sunday talk shows with harsh words for Russia, citing consequences for Moscow but offering few specifics.

"There's no doubt there will be further consequences," Rice said on "Fox News Sunday." "There have already been significant consequences for Russia."

She said, for instance, that "any notion that Russia was the kind of responsible state, ready to integrate into international institutions" is now a nation "in tatters."

Gates said Russia's march toward integration, encouraged by the United States, is being reevaluated. "I think that there has been an effort by three successive American presidents to try and coax Russia into an integrated role in the international community," Gates said on ABC's "This Week." "We thought that they were headed in that direction. ... We now have to reevaluate all that."

On CBS's "Face the Nation," Rice said Russia wants to have it both ways. "It wants to be part of these institutions that are so essential to the international economy and the international order," she said. But "it wants to engage in, kind of, Soviet- style behavior of intimidating and invading allies- or neighbors."

The secretary of state defended President Bush for forging a close relationship with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, saying it is Russia that wasted an opportunity.

"What the president has done is to open a path for Russia that would have been different than the path of the Soviet Union, ..." she said. "Russia that has misjudged what would happen if it did not take that path."

Rice said Russia is not complying with a cease-fire reached Saturday between Georgia and Russia, with troops still occupying parts of undisputed Georgian territory.

"It's not acceptable," Rice said. "It has nothing to do, obviously, with the conflict that began in South Ossetia."

Gates said the ultimate consequences for Russia would depend on how quickly they comply with the cease-fire. "I think that the whole world is looking at Russia through a different set of lenses. ... The longer they take to get out and to observe the cease-fire that's been declared and the arrangements that have been worked out, I think the greater those consequences will be," he said.

On CNN Late Edition, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili said Russians are not relenting. "Russia has given continuous promises to hold [to the ceasefire], but in fact, they are continuing their actions. They are ... widening their zone of occupation," he said.

The chairman of the Russian parliament's foreign affairs committee, Konstantin Kosachev, said troops would leave Georgia, depending on circumstances.

"Sooner or later, yes. But how much time it will take, it depends, definitely, on how Georgians will continue to behave," he said.

For a second week, the Russia-Georgia conflict spilled over into the presidential election.

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), a top supporter of Barack Obama, said John McCain's aggressive response to the conflict "began to ring like a political campaign instead of principled and strong diplomacy."

On Fox, she said it is "presumptuous is to try to undercut in any way the very difficult and tricky work that President Bush and Secretary Rice are trying to do right now."

Former Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge, a big McCain backer, called McCain's response appropriate. "He called for an international peacekeeping force. He called for humanitarian aid. He called it exactly what it is -- unprovoked aggression," Ridge said.

"If we were Georgians and the Russians were invading our country and killing our people, we'd bet in a state of war," he said. "John sometimes ... [is] given to this kind of bellicose rhetoric, which has a tendency to inflame conflicts rather than to diffuse them."

But Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota said McCain has precisely the type of judgment one wants in a president. As an example, Pawlenty (R) cited McCain's early support for the troop increase in Iraq, which has helped to reduce violence.

"Senator Obama to this day, to this day denies the value and the strategic benefit of the surge," Pawlenty said.

But Obama supporter Thomas A. Daschle, former Democratic majority leader from South Dakota, said the obsession with Iraq over the years has distracted from important issues as Russia's relations with its neighbors.

"Because the Bush-McCain approach has been to focus almost exclusively on Iraq over the last five years, a lot of these issues have gone without the kind of attention they deserve," he said.

McCain does not have the judgment needed to be president anybody with half a brain knows it. The GOP once again is trying to bamboozle the American electorate with garbage...George W Bush was garbage and proved to be worse than garbage as the pretend president...McCain is worse...an empty old shirt without a clue. The Bush administration looks and sounds terrible in the face of the Russian/Georgian conflict...all of the statements ring hollow and hypocritical. Russia had more justification to go into Georgia than we did to illegally attack and occupy Iraq...Georgia did provoke Russia, egged on by the criminal idiot George W Bush: Russia reacted or overreacted...but they flexed their muscle...and showed up George W Bush and exposed our idiot president for what he is: a weak cowardly, impotent, incompetent, corrupt noodle brained pretender.

Posted by: castillomark | August 17, 2008 4:05 PM

Mwahahaha, I really enjoy seeing Putin stick the long and hard one up the collective keisters of Little Bush & co. (In a time when no one seems to be able to rein in the Washington criminals, not even the Democratic congress, you accept any help you can get.) And all Little Condi can do is whine and hiss through the gap in her teeth after the Russians spanked their Kakashvili lapdog. Little Bush & co. never stop stirring the shiite, and then they are surprised when a stink arises. What a collection of gangsters, it's as if the Mafia had taken control of the U.S. government (no insult to the Mafia is intended.) As for Bob Gates who said "we thought that [the Russians] were headed in [the] direction [of an integrated role in the international community] ... We now have to reevaluate all that." Ahem, how much are we spending on the intelligence services again? Is it a permanent thing that we will hear from the "intelligence" services from now on that yes, they have WMD, no, they don't, according to who asks the question? The fact is that nothing that our government asserts can be taken at face value or believed to be true. The right-wingers have no regard for the truth; they routinely lie in order to achieve their fascists goals. And what's worse, they lie with impunity. Just look at the way they lied us into the Iraq war. What a miserable, contemptible bunch of shiite-birds. But the electorate is little better, uncritically swallowing the lies of their "leaders." Collectively, we got what we thoroughly deserved, right up where the sun don't shine.

"There's a real concern that Russia has turned a corner here and is headed back to its past rather than its future," Gates

Why is it the U.S. believes that it can get away with lying? True that Russia has been gradually becoming more authoratarian, so are the Americans. Russia probably would be more democratic if the U.S. and its European allies had not been bent on weaking, cornering, and encircling Russia instead of trying to support the democratic institutions. Does anyone buy the lies that the missle defense in Poland is meant to Iran. I have to laugh every time U.S. leaders utter this lie.

Posted by: freespirit | August 17, 2008 4:33 PM

"..stick the long and hard one up the collective keisters of Little Bush & co."
Washington Post moderators talk of full rules. What a sick buch you lefties.
Just like Putin you are showing your true colors. God Bless America and God Bless Freedom and Democracy in the World, in spite of Dictators and their ardent supporters in the Left.

Posted by: george washington | August 17, 2008 4:40 PM

The comments that Ms.Rice and Secretary Gates have made on the situation in Georgia has been always theatening Russia with all sorts of ways, as if Russia was a litle obscure country in the boonies. I do not think this is the right way to solve problems of this magnitude. The combination of gret power and great arrogance is simply stupid.

Posted by: Fernando A.Santos | August 17, 2008 5:12 PM

The comments that Ms.Rice and Secretary Gates have made on the situation in Georgia has been always theatening Russia with all sorts of ways, as if Russia was a litle obscure country in the boonies. I do not think this is the right way to solve problems of this magnitude. The combination of gret power and great arrogance is simply stupid.

Posted by: Fernando A.Santos | August 17, 2008 5:15 PM

I am a bit surprised by the reaction of the Western world to the Russian's invasion of Geogia. When Bush & McCain state that in the 21st Century, nations don't invade other nations, do they mean that the 21st century started after 2003, when we invaded Iraq without any provocations? What price did the US pay for invading another sovereign country? And what are 2000 Georgian troops doing helping in te illegal occupation of Iraq? And what about that missile defense system in Poland? Apparently, it is designed to protect Europe against non existant Iranien missiles. In the last 50 years, can anybody recall the Iraniens invading a neighbour, let alone having a desire to conquer Western Europe? What rationale would Iran have to lob nuclear missile to France, Germany, or Britain? Once again, we are being subjected to lies by our government. They knew that if they told us that they needed to invade Iraq to build bases and control the middle east, no one would support them, so they settled on WMD. And they know that if they came right out and said the missile defense systems was aimed at neutralizing Russian's threat, no one would go for it. So they have to claim to defend Western Europe against Iran. Why isn't Western Europe concerned about the Iranien threats? They seem to be getting long fine with the Iranien, judging by all the trade deals that they have with the Iraniens.

Posted by: Fabian Smith | August 17, 2008 5:18 PM

It sounds like the Russian blog machine is on here trying to make Astroturf grow like grass roots. Rice and Gates are not lying. That's the sort of cant I used to hear on Radio Moscow. Russia has certainly used disproportionate power in response to any Georgian move.

Communists and their fellow travelers are trying to pollute the debate. Go home.

Posted by: GAB in Odenton | August 17, 2008 5:20 PM

Russia won't leave until our jets and tanks and ships get into the game. Till then Russia will make excuses and delay and delay and delay.

Posted by: Blake Southwood | August 17, 2008 5:21 PM

Doesn't those 2 idiots knows that Georgia was the one who started the war.

Posted by: chris | August 17, 2008 5:22 PM

The way politics works in domestic-foreign policy in the United States is disgusting. People in government seek advantage by demonizing another country.

Posted by: Bengt Larsson | August 17, 2008 5:24 PM

"We are Georgians" simple means that we support the Georgia. Don't think too far.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 17, 2008 5:30 PM

What consequences should we face for invading, overthrowing, and occupying Iraq?

We're in no position to condemn Russia.

Posted by: Jon | August 17, 2008 5:32 PM

It's very telling that all those anti-war protesters don't protest when their master Putin starts rolling over former soviet states.

Posted by: SKR | August 17, 2008 5:51 PM

Fernando A Santos wrote:

The combination of gret power and great arrogance is simply stupid.
--------

Worse are those with little power, little intellect, but great arrogance.

You see both in Washington, and Moscow.

A match made in heaven, apparently.

Posted by: The Mighty Spud, Command | August 17, 2008 6:09 PM

"george washington" wrote: "God Bless Freedom and Democracy in the World." I agree. The operative word, however, is "and." For in this country we have democracy, what we don't have is freedom. If anybody doubts it, they can refer to the more than 2 million Americans in prison and jail. This land of the free, so-called, has more people locked up than *any* other country on the planet, including the big, bad communist states. So that must mean that we Americans are worse people than any other in the world, no? I think it means that we have a rotten and slimy government run by prison-packers who have invested in private prisons in order to make a profit off the convicts, and it demonstrates that you can have a despotic tyranny masking as a "democracy," a miserable, right-wing, SWAT-driven police state that conceals itself behind phrases such as "ordered liberty," "law enforcement community," and the insufferable hypocrisy of "for the protection of the Children." In America the politicians routinely stoke people's fears in order to get elected so that they can loot the public purse while pretending to sit on a moral high horse, supported by the religious of all stripes. To top it off, the despicable right-wingers, who have turned this country into a cesspool of crooks and liars, are now trying to foist upon us the deranged McCain who wants to re-fight the Vietnam war, being ignorant of anything else. And I'm willing to bet that the craven, cowardly electorate will vote him into office. From experience with the American sheeple, it's a slam dunk.

Posted by: zorbathegeek | August 17, 2008 6:21 PM

Firstly: Georgians voted in [free and fair elections] overseen by international election monitors, and CHOSE President Saakashvili who advocated integration with the west, and NOT Russia.
Secondly: Over months, the Russians built up a staging post in South Ossetia and Abkhazia from which to launch an invasion, South Ossetians were issued Russian passports as a Russian tactic to create Russians to protect, Russian backed South Ossetian Militia are now roaming South Ossetia and, like in Bosnia, are rounding up and killing as many teenage boys and men under 60 they can kill.
Thirdly: By contrast, President Medvedev was elected as the consequence of an election process riven by intimidation and corruption, which can fairly be compared in quality to that of Zimbabwe's most recent Presidential election.

Posted by: Charles Smyth | August 17, 2008 6:27 PM

To Zorba Goebbels, Karen von Gerhke-Hitler, freespirit a/k/a mao tse-tung, and Fabian the al-Qaeda sympathizer; The Iraqi people asked us to come to their country and free them from the terroristic rule of Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. I have a nephew in the USMC who's got more guts than any of you propaganda-spewing terrorists combined. I myself would like to meet up with you face to face with my nephew by my side. God BLESS the USA and all of our troops! Where were you brain donors when he was in Iraq risking his life and limb? "

If you cared about your nephew, you would have pressured your congressman to stop the illegal war and bring our troops home. I have no doubt that your nephew is a great soldier and America needs great soldiers to defend America. What we do not need is DEAD SOLDIERS fighting a war to line the pockets of crooked politicians and their corporate buddies. This is called Fascism, we are now living in it and I hope your nephew survives Iraq to defend Americans against tyranny at home.

Posted by: Me Too | August 17, 2008 11:41 PM

"I the United States of America will confidently do my duty to Police the world Since I am in the Position especially if someone requested for it."

Posted by: MT | August 18, 2008 12:01 AM

Wow, this is one nasty thread.
It's a shame that truth & logic never made an appearance.

Posted by: stbdtac | August 18, 2008 12:50 AM

I have to wonder about the new readership of the Washington Post. The disgust many are showing for their own country (if they are indeed American and not Russian comments) is only rivaled by their short memories.

I knew it would take a nanosecond for the mouth breathers to find a way to blame Bush and Rice for Putin's aggression. I just expected a little more intelligence from the leftist readership of this newspaper. This is the same group that sees American conspiracy in Putin's murder of critical journalists and radiation poison abroad. Finally, the facts simply do not support a comparison between Iraq and Georgia.

When I read comments referring to the "military industrial complex," "Fascism," and "despotic tyranny" of this country, I'm not sure if I'm reading an excerpt from Pravda in 1985 or someone's 2008 delusions.

It's too bad the web allows people to both write without thinking and hide behind anonymity. If you truly think this country is as bad as you claim it is, please leave. Seriously, stop the made-up exaggerations and please leave. The rest of us will do a lot better without you and you'll find the healthcare cheaper in Canada.

Posted by: Steve Roberts, Bethesda | August 18, 2008 2:09 AM

There is blame and hypocrisy to go around.

First, in the United States, we have a tendency to see ourselves as always right. And generally, our intentions are good, but our execution (the Iraq war for example) is faulty. Thus we can encourage Kosovo or Montenegro to split from Serbia, while not seeing Russia's view on Ossetia as something similar. Understanding the inconsistencies of our own positions will help us deal with problems that will invariably arise from our example.

Remember how we talked about a uni-polar world, with the US as sole power, all through the 1990's while Russia struggled. We were not exactly humble. Nor did our early assistance helping them become more capitalistic lead to a healthy capitalism. It lead to corruption, with Putin restoring at least some order and taking assets that had been essentially stolen and under the power of individual men. China watched Russia's jump into capitalism and said "NO thanks, not that way."

At the time we promised Russia that NATO was their friend and not to fear. What did we do? We began to encourage Nato membership, and immediately add troops or missiles to this new territory.

Now think about this. Think of yourself as Russian and imagine how you might feel. Also, ask what the U.S. would do if Russia attempted to place missiles in Cuba? What would the U.S. do if Texas or Arizona turned majority hispanic and tried to secede (and don't assume having a constitution won't permit that from being attempted years from now).

What did Russia do when we invaded Iraq? The urged caution, but made no great demands (although we can of course argue that our actions in Iraq were warranted by Saddam refusing to honor agreements when they surrendered in the first Gulf War).

I am not excusing Russian behavior, but like most things, it's more complex. Bush, Cheney and Rice are not evil either. Putin is not necessarily wrong. The Georgian leader is not innocent. People do things out of self interest, and without clarity, and often executing badly... leading to half the troubles in the world.

And recognizing nuance does not make you a good or bad American. What we need going forward, whether under McCain or Obama, is a president that forms a long term unified theory of American action. A theory that in part says that what is right for the United States, should be right for every other nation: that is, if we do it, others should be able to do it on the same grounds.

The enemy is not Russians, or Americans, or Arabs (Islam is another question), but rather, a lack of clarity and empathy that breeds hypocrisy and challenges to that hypocrisy. (Which is what Russia is doing..."You say Kosovo, I say Ossetia")

Posted by: Finn at Blaxalternate | August 18, 2008 2:36 AM

Dear citizens of the Planet, for some reason I got an impression that small war had been decleared. This war is called "Media War." This war includes a lot of name calling ocusations, empty threats toward Democratic fundomentals and any common sense. Russian Federation had been building Democratic, strong respected country. Breaking old stereotipes of "USSR", "Cold War" "KGB". I want to know why long years of hard and honest work can be destroied in 10 days by few once respected media channels? Why anybody from high officials to reporters make harsh statements without any ground. All of us have a right at least for the objective facts. 1 Georgia invaded South Osetia.2 Russia called emergency UN meeting, asking for stopping the agression. No resolution was made. Georgian troops killed civilians of South Osettia. No information in the media until this point?!3 Russian army entered region to save Russian citizens.First CNN Report. What is not democratic in these actions? Who is protecting the Democracy?Why everybody is silent? Two thousand civilians it is not just a number. It is woman, children, seniors. What are we going to tell them? We were playing politics? US had presidential compagn show? Let's just get the facts and answer those questions for ourselvs. I am sure our media will help us.

Posted by: Mark Smith | August 18, 2008 4:23 AM

Dear Americans, it is time to wake-up! I am native Georgian, resighned in US for past 5 years. Not likely most of the Americans, I had chance to folow the conflict from all points of view: Georgian, Russian, American. Military operations that Georgian president M. Saakashvili started, lately found to be called "Empty Field." Does this says anything to you? Bush's pupet Saakashvili STARTED a military cleansing operation against people in his own country, by using illegal heavy bombing weapons on civil city. He killed more than 2 thousand civilians overnight. He also specificly targeted Russian peasekeeping military forces. How would US react in the place of Russia? After calling an emergency Security Council meeting and have not getting any results, Russia moves it's forces into conflict zone, basicly to protect it's own citizens and osetians from being completely destroyed. Only than US media starts to cover the cituation by showing night picture of bombarding of South Ossetia by Georgian militaries with underlines "Russia invates Georgia"? Since that moment, the whole media is only conducted to show not the truth, but to raze tentions within americans that Russia is going to use it's old "Soviet" tactics. Is not it just another reason to keep americans under fear? It is cleared, that such a little country as Georgia, with only 4,5 million populations and 60% of people living under level of pooreness could not get a billion dollar military budget without a free support from US. But is there anything free in this world? Some US officials played on Saakashvili's seeknes of willing to get more and more power and actualy conducted him to make this stupid nacist move. The most that drives me crazy, is trying to presume Saakashvili's regime as a democratic? Can you call a democratic president person, who filled prisons with his political oponents (some even been killed)? Who ordered special forces to fight with civilian demonstrations of oposition during the last elections and basicly getting a fraudulent counting of votes? In this case, Russia acted as a survivor for Ossetians, Russians and even Georgians. The world should be thankfull to Russia for stopping this massive murder and his "militaries". Because, I can hardly call "military" the people, who shooted their guns and tanks to children, women and seniors, destroying churches and killing woundeds. Yes, it did took place. After what he did, first time in my life I am ashamed to be Georgian. He puted blood on the nations hands. It is time to realize, that someone in White House does needs this war, in order to keep americans in fear and keep his power after the November elections.

Posted by: David Tatishvili | August 18, 2008 5:02 AM

Please don't praise Russia as a way of getting at Bush.

Posted by: Bengt Larsson | August 18, 2008 5:03 AM

"Unprovoked aggression" The US politicians must think you Americans are stupid. The capital of S. Ossetia is in ruins after Georgia started this mess with their unprovoked attack on August 7th to reclaim a region that has been autonomous since 1992. The Russians simply reacted to Georgia's attack which has killed many hundreds, if not thousands, of civilians. If Russia was the aggressor then S. Ossetian cities wouldn't be in ruins. Think!

It is worth noting that America stood silent when Israel purposely destroyed civilian infrastructure and killed thousands of Lebanese civilians over 2kidnapped soldiers. Those in the media condemning Russia went out of their way to justify Israel's reaction which most in the world considered total overkill.

Russia,unlike Israel was, is targeting military infrastructure.
Americans do some research before having an opinion and be more skeptical of the media. Prove to the world that the negative stereotype of the poor judgment making of Americans is unwarranted.

Posted by: Otto | August 18, 2008 9:53 AM

"disproportionate" use of force. That is what Rice is complaining about. When Iraq was invaded that was "proportionate". Iran is threatened to be invaded. That is proportionate. Israel sent lebanon to the stone ages for the abduction of a soldier. that was pretty damn proportionate. Syria was bombed a few months ago. That was proportionate. Its pretty simple the strong lays down the rules. Right now its Russia so just shut up and listen when it talks.

Posted by: JackHass | August 18, 2008 10:56 AM

Putin acts. He doesnt talk crap like Rice. Now US can expect to go it alone on the Iran issue. Putin doesnt muddle around the whole world like a school bully. He minds his business. In his backyard if there is problem , you are damn right he will do what is required. So he doesnt have al qaeda on his back or any other unwanted crap. Bush has a broken country where ppl are shooting other people because they dont have jobs and what he is worried about is Georgia.. what an idiot. Who cares about Georgia.. fix US first.

Posted by: George from NJ | August 18, 2008 11:04 AM

"Russia won't leave until our jets and tanks and ships get into the game. Till then Russia will make excuses and delay and delay and delay".. Yep. Thats what dick thought when they went to Iraq. Only difference here is Russia is not a tiny poor middle eastern country. It happens to have its own "jets and tanks and ships" I dont think they like democracy much either after they see the democracy we helped build in Iraq and Afganistan.

Posted by: Another unpatriotic dude | August 18, 2008 11:18 AM

Its amazing to see so many people are not being fooled by the anti-russia propaganda.

Posted by: Nafnosseb | August 18, 2008 2:00 PM

' Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said two decades of work to bring Russia into the international community must be reassessed in the wake of its actions in Georgia, while Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice warned that Russia's actions "look like they do belong to the Soviet Union." '

The best translation Gates' comment: "The many decades to bring the U.S. into the international community must be reassessed in the wake of its actions in Afghanistan, Iraq, and dozens of other countries."

Rice would have been more accurate if she had said that Russia's actions "look like they do belong to the United States."

The transparent hypocrisy of the comments by Gates and Rice are astounding, even by the incredibly low standards set by this administration and the neocons holding their leash. Is it possible that European countries will actually believe this nonsense? Georgia prodded the bear, almost certainly with a go-ahead by the U.S., and lost. But these comments by Gates and Rice suggest they are willing to throw Georgia under a second, and third, and...bus to build some sort of consensus against Russia. And clearly, the neocons are happy to use a clueless George Bush to further their own ends and have shown a willingness to sacrifice Georgia for some purpose (TBD) that the they hopes to benefit from. AEI, PNAC. These organizations seem to be the real enemies of peace in this world.

Posted by: ptgrunner | August 18, 2008 5:32 PM

We as Americans have this desire to be "good" without really knowing what "bad" means. Enslaving and killing tens of millions of ones' own people, then spreading that despotism over Eastern Europe. THAT's evil, and that's Russia's history, one that is destined to be repeated if the people of Russia continue to support leaders like Putin. In my travels, I've found very few people in Western Europe who remember (or want to remember) why we fought WWII. But ask any Eastern European what they think of the situation right now, and they are very, very scared. Yes, our federal government has made a blunder in Iraq. But let's not let the people of Eastern Europe down (again). If we let this slide, Russia will keep on repeating its history. America has an obligation to support freedom, and to put a stop to this trend right here and now.

Posted by: AndyS | August 18, 2008 8:11 PM

History will show you that The United States Of America is slow to anger but like in the past we will fight for liberty and freedom and make no mistake all the people of the U.S.A. ALL OF THE PEOPLE OF THE U.S.A. Will stand together to fight for freedom let no one misjudge this thats why almighty GOD has put this country in the middle of the two great oceans to keep the peace. Its all about the freedom folks and every American leader for Kennedy to Bush will follow this path.

Posted by: richard garcia | August 18, 2008 9:37 PM

Bush, Rice, and McCain should work on a farm not the government.
They help Georgia while we Americans suffer. How many people don't have jobs, how many live on the street. I don't have money to pay for college and our government throws money at IRAQ.
Trillions of dollars go to 13 air bases in Iraq, military installations in Poland, Czech and look at our economy and we wonder why that is.
McCain is following Bush's steps, he wants to solve everything by force but don't forget that Russia is not Georgia it can also respond using greater force.
When Russia brought this up in UN meeting we ignored them, and now our government blames them.
I think we should elect such a government that would bring our troops home where they belong with their families and take care of our own country instead of wasting money on Iraq and Afghanistan.

Posted by: Chicago | August 19, 2008 2:24 AM

If Russia chooses to behave in this way, we have no choice but to treat them as an adversary in every possible way:

Look at the end of the Great Friendship in 1998. Russia was actually a failed state. It was about to break up into three parts. Nowadays Russia feels much more confidently.

Posted by: just open-minded | August 20, 2008 3:14 PM

>>"There's no doubt there will be further consequences," Rice said on "Fox News Sunday." "There have already been significant consequences for Russia."

Oh goodness, our kids are adorable. I get a chuckle every time the cameras catch Condi outside the neighbors house making rude hand gestures.
"Consequences"....hehehehehehehe, you mean other than they now control Ossentia, what consequences is she referring too, do you reckon?
They aren't invited to the G-8 tea parties anymore? We wont go over their house next winter for the Big Russian snow ball fight?
Boo-hooo, I doubt Pooty poot is going to notice, he's too busy counting his petro-dollars.
For those screaming for attack...hehehehehe, sorry junior, the adults are stepping in on this one. Russia has a lot of nukes and the ability to deliver them to a town near you, this is not a Republican existential threat, this is a real existential threat. Just sit quietly and make faces at each other, if your good maybe we'll let you invade Iran after we get this sorted out.
It's not like they could really hurt us, so it's OK to play pretend at the Mullahs expense. Pooty poot can bake this nation like a bunt cake and we can't stop him, so it's probably best if we keep the American conservatives on a short leash.

Posted by: Dijetlo | August 21, 2008 6:29 AM

Posted by: forced | August 21, 2008 3:59 PM

"I believe it is in our own national security interests to stop Russia from continuing its aggressive actions against Georgia or threatening other countries in the region," he, (Sen. Graham), said in a joint statement with Lieberman.
Clearly, we, as Americans must be made to understand understand that OUR national interests take precedence over any OTHER countries interests. Placing missile systems on Russia's borders for example, is clearly within our rights, as these missiles are undisputably necessary to secure our borders,protect our citizens and prevent an attack ON the United States. (and of course, OUR national interest allows us to completely ignore the fact that Georgia was in fact the agressor)

Anyone remember the events of October 15 - 28, 1962 ? Of course, it would be totally illogical, and absolutely impermissible for us to allow Russia to follow the same course of action as the United States.

"South Ossetia and Abkhazia are part of Georgia," the president,(Bush) declared,
Perhaps someone should pass on the following 'suggested reading' to Mr. Bush, Mr. Lieberman and Mr. Graham. Obviously it's something They are quite unfamiliar with:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Of course, this statement, should not apply if it's in "OUR national interest" that Georgia retain the territories in spite of the clearly stated will of their peoples. I've never been able to determine what that phrase actually means. I can only see that homelessness and poverty IN America, lack of healthcare FOR Americans, and aid TO Americans losing their homes are just some examples of what is NOT in our national interest.....

Posted by: tom | August 22, 2008 4:56 AM

America wants to put missiles in Poland at the same time Assad of Syria is in Moscow negotiating about missile sites in Syria for Russian missiles. Missiles for everyone then we'll all be safe, Fiji should be set up with a missile shield you never know, you just never know when it'll come in handy.

John McCain:
Unfit to serve as Commander-In-Chief
The spoiled son of military privilege got a free ride throughout his military career despite repeated instances of sex scandals and screw-ups

By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
January 27, 2008

John Sidney McCain III entered the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland in 1954. Young McCain wanted to become an admiral. He planned to be the "first son and grandson of four star admirals" to achieve such a distinction. But that was not to be. McCain III possessed none of the innate character and discipline traits that helped mold his father and grandfather into great military leaders.

His father, John S. "Junior" McCain, and grandfather, John S. McCain, Sr., were famous four-star Admirals in the U.S. Navy. His father commanded U.S. forces in Europe before becoming commander of American forces fighting in Vietnam. His grandfather commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945. Both men became highly influential in U.S. Navy operations.

At the Academy, aside being known as a "rowdy, raunchy, underachiever" who resented authority, Midshipman McCain became infamous as a leader among his fellow midshipmen for organizing "off-Yard activities" and hard drinking parties. Robert Timberg wrote in his book, The Nightingale's Song, that "being on liberty with John McCain was like being in a train wreck."

McCain's grades were "marginal." He drew so many demerits for breaking curfew and other discipline issues that he graduated fifth from the bottom of the class of 1958. Despite his low "class standing," and no doubt because of the influence of his family of famous Admirals, McCain was leap-frogged ahead of more qualified applicants and granted a coveted slot to be trained as a navy pilot.

Good Party Animal - Bad Pilot:

He spent the next two and a half years as a "naval aviator in training" at Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida and Naval Air Station Corpus Christi in Texas, flying A-1 Skyraiders.

While a pilot trainee, McCain continued to party hard. He drove a Corvette and dated an exotic dancer named "Marie the Flame of Florida." Timberg wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."

McCain Lost Five Military Aircraft

McCain, the "below par" pilot, eventually lost 5 military aircraft, the first during a training flight in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while trying to land. The Navy ignored the crash and graduated McCain in 1960.

While deployed in the Mediterranean, the hard partying McCain lost a second aircraft. Timberg described the crash: "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."

Unscathed, McCain returned to Pensacola Station where he was promoted to flight instructor for Naval Air Station Meridian in Mississippi. The airfield at Meridian, McCain Field, was named in honor of McCain's grandfather.

In 1964 McCain became involved with Carol Shepp, a model from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, he had met at Annapolis. They were married in Philadelphia on July 3, 1965.

Flight instructor McCain lost a third aircraft while flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. Timberg wrote that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain parachuted onto a beach moments before his plane slammed into a clump of trees.

The Navy dismissed the crash as "unavoidable" and assigned McCain to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in December 1966, which was patrolling the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean. In Spring 1967, the Forrestal was assigned to join the Operation Rolling Thunder bombing campaign against North Vietnam.

McCain lost his fourth plane on board the Forrestal on July 29, 1967 when a rocket inadvertently slammed into his bomb laden jet. McCain escaped, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors. McCain was transferred from the badly damaged Forrestal to the USS Oriskany. Shortly afterwards, on Oct. 26, 1967, he was shot down and captured by the Vietnamese.

Post-POW Years: Political Ambition and a New, Young, Rich Wife

Upon his release from North Vietnam and return to the United States in 1973, McCain reunited with his wife, Carol, who had been permanently crippled in a car accident while he was a POW.

Still yearning to become an admiral, McCain enrolled in the National War College at Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. and underwent physical therapy in order to fly again. The Navy excused his permanent disabilities and reinstated him to flight status, effectively positioning him for promotion.

Timberg described McCain's advancement: "in the fall of 1974, McCain was transferred to Jacksonville as the executive officer of Replacement Air Group 174, the long-sought flying billet at last a reality. A few months later, he assumed command of the RAG, which trained pilots and crews for carrier deployments. The assignment was controversial, some calling it favoritism, a sop to the famous son of a famous father and grandfather, since he had not first commanded a squadron, the usual career path."

While Executive Officer and later as Squadron Commander McCain used his authority to arrange frequent flights that allowed him to carouse with subordinates and "engage in extra-marital affairs."

This was a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice rules against adultery and fraternization with subordinates. But, as with all his other past behaviors, McCain was never penalized; instead he always got away with his transgressions.

Timberg wrote, "Off duty, usually on routine cross-country flights to Yuma and El Centro, John started carousing and running around with women. To make matters worse, some of the women with whom he was linked by rumor were subordinates . . . At the time the rumors were so widespread that, true or not, they became part of McCain's persona, impossible not to take note of."

Posted by: McLame | August 24, 2008 6:07 PM

I'm sure the Russians are scare to death, to what Rice and Gate are saying.
When this people talk, it makes our country look bad.
Just look at the IDIOTS we running our country.
MCSANE, could'nt save himselves in Vietnam, and he going to protect us, I dont think so.

Posted by: Levario | August 24, 2008 6:58 PM

This is wag the dog, pure and simple. Georgia provoked this to prop up the Bush/McCain defense industry machine.
Gates' "Russia will pay" really means that the U.S. taxpayers will pay to supply an incompetent Georgia regime with armaments to further fuel tensions in the region. The U.S. taxpayers are suckers.

Posted by: Schwartz1 | August 24, 2008 7:16 PM

Yes, it's obvious here that the fascist state machine of the Russian Federation has unleashed its little potty mouth automatons in a mass turd throwing attack on the west. Too bad for them that English is the language of international discourse. Looks like they couldn't find enough English speaking educator slaves to get their automatons ready for international blogging. Get back in your cell, Igor, and wait for your grog.