That doesn't make any sense. The most hardware configurations you have to deal with the more complex your OS has to be, do you get it? Apple cant distribute their OS to everyone because right now its not complex enough to handle all the hardware configuration, not to mention third party drives seeing Apple like to try and controls drivers and firmware also.

Which is a problem because when Apple screws something up you have to wait for Apple to fix the problem. IF Nvidia or ATI puts out a bad driver I can simply revert to another version, you don't have that option with OSX. The best example is when Apple had a firmware conflict with their first gen AL iMacs that causes problems with the GPU. It took Apple three months to fix that problem when people had their system hanging daily.

Your one that does not get it. He talking about OS reliability, not sure if you take time to read people's replies properly before jabbing at the keyboard. I see no mention of complexity in his post.

His points are very valid and you need to stop trying to argue against Apple in an area it is strong and provide credible evidence of places Apple is weak. I am not going to help you all time, but try doing a search under 'Apple computer flaws' and you may get some credible evidence and be on point.

MS may not be perfect but osx isnt either. its far from it.
1. snow leopard and its guest account deleting all your data? thats a huge huge huge flaw.
2. i can build/buy a computer for $1200 thats 300X better and faster and cooler looking with a 24 in screen for the same price than a imac
3. i can play games... enough said there
4. nothings ever apples fault, its always users fault. Data deletion? your fault. your battery in your iphone is blowing up? your fault. we're also going to pay you to shut up and if you talk we'll sue you.
5. they might be good for not getting viruses but that will soon change IF mac get a bigger market share.
6. psystar is doing the right thing by taking apple to court. APPLE IS A BIGGER MONOPOLY THEN MS!!!!! everything has to be theirs or they will cry about it. go psystar, take apple down!!

and on a side note, anything that the iphone can do, the palm pre can do better.

2 years before Apple I:
3 months before Apple I (note the built in tape deck):

2 Years Before iPod:
3 Years Before iPod:

See also about 100 other portable MP3 players released prior to iPod.

Released January 22, 2007 in Japan (5 months before iPod in USA), the world's first 100% touchscreen phone. It was announced in mid 2006 and was the first LG/Prada phone (I know, it wasn't anywhere near as good as an iPhone, but the concept was innovative):
Actually, this phone was part of a larger lineup of very early LG touchscreen devices, all of which were epic fails. Included the LG touchscreen internet fridge, and LG touchscreen internet dishwasher.

Popularizing an idea doesn't mean innovation.

That's not to say Apple hasn't been an innovator. Here are some things I would call Apple innovations:

-Graphical GUI.

-Marketing computers aesthetically, not just technically.

-Maybe the click wheel?

-Closed Hardware-Software ecosystem (which has been vital to avoiding anti-trust lawsuits which have plagued microsoft, and the ability to market based on aesthetics.)

I know there are lots more, but let's face it, no single company is responsible for all the innovation in the industry, or even a large percentage of it, as much as fanboys on all sides would like you to believe.

according to wikipedia

Apple announced the iPhone on January 9, 2007 - iphone
It was first announced on 12 December 2006 - prada phone

These are about as far as you can get with stretching the truth. If the public believes them, it could help a lot. However, if they find Win7 to be a big improvement (as most who have actually tried it have), then Apple stands to loose a lot of credibility.

Apple's credibility will depend on how Apple performs, not on how Win7 does ... if Win7 is any kind of improvement at all over Vista, and it's kinda hard not to be, then it will sell well. I'm still willing to bet we will see a lot of switchers coming to Mac, just based on what Mac is. We still have the best word of mouth thing going for us ... and that is very powerful.

Apple, bigger than Google, √ ..... bigger than Microsoft, √ The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.

Except the point you are replying to was about "revolutionizing", and you're making the same error as Walt Mossberg in confusing "evolution" and "revolution" as mutually exclusive things. Just because something else similar came before, doesn't mean that the new thing that evolved from it isn't revolutionary.

I'm not sure I see any value in the ads at this point. The ads at this point have been seen by most people. The ads still look the same which to me means people are simply going to tune them out. It going to be like been there done that. The ads need to be different instead of having the same actors spouting the same message.

Also as in politics ads that clearly feature actors do not do as well as ads that appear to feature real people, like the MS ads. While everyone here bashes them seeing what appears to be an average person shopping for a computer seem far more real then two actors.

So even when I step back and try to look at this from a novice point of view im not sure teh ads will even attract them. Just an opinion.

I am sort of sick of the ads as well, but some people like them. I think in marketing it is called building brand identity/awareness. Once you have the top spot the strategy changes. So sure the MS ads are good too but they have a different strategy since they are on top.

I'm not sure people just switch. I am sure there are some people that decide to go from Windows to OSX then again I don't doubt some go from OSX to Windows. Most surveys show people use both. Only about 15% of all Apple users have all Apple hardware, 85% have a Windows system.

IMHO everyone should use both if they can afford to because I feel its stupid to be blindly loyal to one product. No one likes attack ads it turns people off in politics and this is no different. At first the ads were funny now they are just childish, not to mention a waste of money.

I use both operating systems. Maybe switch was the wrong term. All I really mean is buy a Mac instead of a new PC (or even a mac and a pc! the mac sale is what matters). I would consider a person to have "switched" operating systems if they buy a mac, but still keep their old PC.

As for these ads, there is humor in them, which makes them different from political attack ads. I like these ads a lot more than the other mac ads as of late. If I was pro PC, I would hate them as they really stretch the truth. I have no idea what effect they have on the average consumer, but I doubt Apple would keep an ad campaign this long if it was unsuccessful.

I'm not sure I see any value in the ads at this point. The ads at this point have been seen by most people. The ads still look the same which to me means people are simply going to tune them out. It going to be like been there done that. The ads need to be different instead of having the same actors spouting the same message.

Actually, you're completely wrong in your analysis. It is exactly the fact that they have, "the same actors spouting the same message," that reinforces the power of the message with each new ad.

It's also interesting that MS apparently doesn't really understand the Apple ads either, as evidenced by their, "I'm a PC" campaign, a fact skewered by Apple in the ad where the woman declares, "I'm a Megan."

MS may not be perfect but osx isnt either. its far from it.
1. snow leopard and its guest account deleting all your data? thats a huge huge huge flaw.

Its a very bad flaw, but its not a huge flaw. Your chances of encountering it are less than winning a lottery. It cant even be recreated easily. Apple hasnt even released an emergency patch for it, they are waiting to release it with 10.6.2. That should tell you how likely it is to affect someone.

Quote:

2. i can build/buy a computer for $1200 thats 300X better and faster and cooler looking with a 24 in screen for the same price than a imac.

Go for it. In fact, go ahead spec out this machine that is 300x better for us. Teach us something, will you? I really cant see how you can build an AIO from stock parts, but maybe you have some made skills.

Quote:

3. i can play games... enough said there

I can play games, too. Some mac users have Windows for playing games on there Macs, but I think most Mac users are like me, and arent focusing on games as a reason to buy a computer. If your focus is playing games then building your own machine is the way to go, if its not playing games why are cramping your machine down everyones throat as the option possible option? Sounds like sour grapes to me.

That is the farthest from the truth. Apple customers like the ease of use to get CE repaired and replaced with little hassle. Its a valid reason to go with a company that has better service. I can make my own steak dinner but I do like to go out and get the service of a good restaurant. Why is such a problem for you?

Quote:

5. they might be good for not getting viruses but that will soon change IF mac get a bigger market share.

Theyve been getting a bigger marketshare and yet it hasnt happened. On top of that, Macs take over 90% of computer sales of machines over $1000+. You know, where people who have money and personal information worth stealing tend to fall. Yet still no rampant viruses. Your myth was busted years ago. Now youre gonna tell us that Mac have no software for them.

Quote:

6. psystar is doing the right thing by taking apple to court. APPLE IS A BIGGER MONOPOLY THEN MS!!!!! everything has to be theirs or they will cry about it. go psystar, take apple down!!

Did you just say that Apple didnt have marketshare, but now they are a monopoly? Sounds like someone needs to proofread before hitting submit. You have faied to realize that Psystar cant win here, even if they win in court. They lose and the consumer loses even more. All Apple has to do is not sell retail upgrades of OS X, make it require an authentication code, have it phone home to verify and/or charge a lot more for the discs if you cant prove you have bought a Mac.

Also, if Apple were forced to socialize their OS and not be allowed to sell it in a free market, then Psystar couldnt survive because Apple could easily monopolize on Dell, HP and others who it could work to get driver support, offer licensing and total kill any of the crap machines Psystar puts out. Apple still wins financially, yet MS now loses double digit marketshare in record time, Psystar goes under when they cant compete with real vendors and Mac customers have to deal with more bullshit.

Have you not wondered why no one else is doing what Psystar is doing yet theyve begged Apple to help them get out from under MS thumb?

Quote:

and on a side note, anything that the iphone can do, the palm pre can do better.

Okay, now I know you are just trolling.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Well at least we know you are safe with and idiot proof computer. It was made for you. As for viruses you are right they are just something you hear about in Apple ads in reality these day a dangerous virus is far more of a myth then reality. Apple needs to update their 1980 attack plan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by extremeskater

I'm not sure people just switch. I am sure there are some people that decide to go from Windows to OSX then again I don't doubt some go from OSX to Windows. Most surveys show people use both. Only about 15% of all Apple users have all Apple hardware, 85% have a Windows system.

IMHO everyone should use both if they can afford to because I feel its stupid to be blindly loyal to one product. No one likes attack ads it turns people off in politics and this is no different. At first the ads were funny now they are just childish, not to mention a waste of money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by extremeskater

Stylish is far more important to long time Apple users. Windows users are not big on AIO's thats why ones made by Sony, HP, Dell and Gateway do not do well. The HP Smarttouch is actually a pretty nice machine but it doesn't sell well.

Even if the ads are targeted at women or seniors my point was it would be rare for an Mac to be the only machine in a household. Most people simply have software they use that the Mac does not offer.

Apple talks out of both side of their face. As much as they try to say you can make a 100% swtich with no problem, in the next sentence the sales rep is telling someone you can also install Windows via bootcamp. Installing Window is a point of sale for many reps in Apple stores.

Quote:

Originally Posted by extremeskater

That doesn't make any sense. The most hardware configurations you have to deal with the more complex your OS has to be, do you get it? Apple cant distribute their OS to everyone because right now its not complex enough to handle all the hardware configuration, not to mention third party drives seeing Apple like to try and controls drivers and firmware also.

Which is a problem because when Apple screws something up you have to wait for Apple to fix the problem. IF Nvidia or ATI puts out a bad driver I can simply revert to another version, you don't have that option with OSX. The best example is when Apple had a firmware conflict with their first gen AL iMacs that causes problems with the GPU. It took Apple three months to fix that problem when people had their system hanging daily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by extremeskater

Every statement doesn't require a link. If you own apple systems you would have to live in a cave shielded by the rest of the world not to know about the battery problems, heat problem and the firmware issues related to the first gen iMac. Not to mention iPhone and Macbook stress cracks over the years. Macbook air heat issues, do you remember the G4 cube, yeah that was a real winner.

If you are a long time Apple user like I am you would have to be so blindly loyal or have your head halfway up our butt not to know all this already.

But to make you happy here you go.

Firmware issue that too three months to resolve. This was release on Nov 15 and the Macs were release in Aug that year.

Opening a retail store is not ripping off Apple. Last time I checked Apple didn't invent retail stores. Clearly with Apple putting out three ads the week Windows 7 is release shows they are nervous about MS. Everyone knows Windows 7 is going to be a massive seller. It already is based on pre sales alone, not to mention the program that allows anyone with an (edu) email address to get Win 7 Pro for 29.99 as an upgrade.

Everyone in the world knows what Windows 7 is, can't say the same about Snow Leopard.

Every Windows has been a big seller. It's Windows. The question is its relationship to the Premium market. Of course everyone knows what Windows is. Obviously! We also know what *else* Windows is. But apparently enough consumers with money to spend know what a Mac is and what OS X is - enough to hand Apple record quarters.

See my sig.

And look at the videos of the MS Store. Poster for poster, table for table, it's as if MS hijacked an Apple Store and put PCs on the tables.

Every statement doesn't require a link. If you own apple systems you would have to live in a cave shielded by the rest of the world not to know about the battery problems, heat problem and the firmware issues related to the first gen iMac. Not to mention iPhone and Macbook stress cracks over the years. Macbook air heat issues, do you remember the G4 cube, yeah that was a real winner.

If you are a long time Apple user like I am you would have to be so blindly loyal or have your head halfway up our butt not to know all this already.

But to make you happy here you go.

Firmware issue that too three months to resolve. This was release on Nov 15 and the Macs were release in Aug that year.

The US Army has a few employees ... I hear they're switching to Macs ... your point is?

I was responding the the comment that I quoted which pointed out that a lot of people are still on an old version of IE. I was adding to that by saying that my company is just now migrating to a version of IE that was introduced 3 years ago.

I heard about the army moving to Macs, which is great, but I'm not sure what that has to do with my post.

Sure they do. Sales numbers tell me for the exception in iPods, Apple doesn't lead in anything.

Except that the entire industry is following Apple.

And Apple owns the Premium market with Macs.

Everyone and their dog is copying the iPhone, the growth of which has been explosive, and continues unabated.

iPods still #1.

You don't have to lead in sales to be incredibly, ridiculously successful (just own your segment of the market.)

Apparently, sales leads don't have a lot to do with actual success (growth, profit, etc) - witness MS' last two quarters.

Vista outsold OS X by leaps and bounds. But universal licensing, ignorance and inertia will do that. The also-ran box assemblers, HP, Dell, etc., all outsold Apple . . . but it's all about growth and profit - Apple leads the industry in this area, and has been outpacing the industry for years. And of course, being #1 in customer satisfaction year after year after year, feeds into that.

I don't like the whole 'I'm a Mac' campaign and am glad they stopped running them here in the UK. They use negative marketing and make us Mac users look a bad shade of smug. Not to mention they're a tad hypocritical.

Funny how you completely jumped over my other posts with links. Don't want to talk about that>>>>LOL. Like most Apple users you are very selective. Also you cant read you posted Q2 results not Q1. Get a clue.

yet again, you do not read my posts Q1 & Q2 2009 and Q1 2008. As for your posts I think Quadra 610 did that enough justice.

MS may not be perfect but osx isnt either. its far from it.
1. snow leopard and its guest account deleting all your data? thats a huge huge huge flaw.
2. i can build/buy a computer for $1200 thats 300X better and faster and cooler looking with a 24 in screen for the same price than a imac
3. i can play games... enough said there
4. nothings ever apples fault, its always users fault. Data deletion? your fault. your battery in your iphone is blowing up? your fault. we're also going to pay you to shut up and if you talk we'll sue you.
5. they might be good for not getting viruses but that will soon change IF mac get a bigger market share.
6. psystar is doing the right thing by taking apple to court. APPLE IS A BIGGER MONOPOLY THEN MS!!!!! everything has to be theirs or they will cry about it. go psystar, take apple down!!

like i said before, IF macs get bigger there are going to be alot more problems. yea ill give apple the win for the iphone, it has made the number of touch phone jump in number. but my palm pre is better then anything the iphone can do. i back up extremeskater. tell me, what can you do on a mac that you cant do on a pc anymore?

like i said before, IF macs get bigger there are going to be alot more problems. yea ill give apple the win for the iphone, it has made the number of touch phone jump in number. but my palm pre is better then anything the iphone can do. i back up extremeskater. tell me, what can you do on a mac that you cant do on a pc anymore?

1) Not have to run virus and spyware apps.
2) Do the same task in less steps, thus saving time.
3) Get faster start ups, shutdowns, application start ups for the same HW.
4) Get more battery use of a single charge doing the same tasks due to better PM.

Those a few of the things OS X has over Windows and will continue to have due to disparate business models. That doesn't mean a Mac is for you, and I don't think anyone here expects everyone to have a Mac, but don't slander it just because you can't afford one or don't it it's demographic. One size does not fit all!

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

1) Not have to run virus and spyware apps.
2) Do the same task in less steps, thus saving time.
3) Get faster start ups, shutdowns, application start ups for the same HW.
4) Get more battery use of a single charge doing the same tasks due to better PM.

Those a few of the things OS X has over Windows and will continue to have due to disparate business models. That doesn't mean a Mac is for you, and I don't think anyone here expects everyone to have a Mac, but don't slander it just because you can't afford one or don't it it's demographic. One size does not fit all!

very very few things osx has over windows. and yea a mac isnt for me because im actually smart with my money and im not like the rest of society, i dont go around buying things that the tv tells me to buy. i work in retail and 90% of all customers are idiots. just because you see an ad on tv doesn't mean its a good product. when people come in to buy a mac, i talk them out of it.

Should I give you the list of software you cant run on a Mac. Not sure the AI server could hold all that info.

Don't care because I don't need much more than I have on a Mac. We have plenty of Windows machines and most of our clients are exclusively Windows. But honestly the only thing I ever need a PC for is to create MS Access files for 1 client. Although our accounting dept. is all Windows and our IT is 90% Linux. So they are all useful, but for the best development environment for Web, Video and Print publishing - Mac has no equal.

That fine but most fo the world isn't in the print pubishing business. I am not in that business so I really don't have an opinion on what works best.

Well even if I was in engineering or medicine which is the business most of my clients are in, I would still have a Mac at home since it is really an excellent machine for almost any casual computer usage as well as creative work. Of course creative industries have always been a stronghold for Apple so you'll find a disproportionate number of creative people on this forum.

yes but will the average consumer know that. most likely not. the point im trying to make is that for every os, regardless of win vs osx, theyre supposed to be better than the last. Don't tell me OSX hasn't been plagued by bugs or else we wouldn't be at 10.5 now would we.

I agree to some extend, but I believe Apple are trying to be innovative as well as improve their operating system performance in terms of user features etc.

I read the reviews on Win 7 and I must say, I have an open mind and from the reviews, it seems a breath of fresh air over Vista.