The question of questions: What is casual?

Exterior Magic doesn't mean he's not playing Magic. It means he's not playing the game of Magic. He's using the cards for other purposes than the game, though. That mostly emphasized by the fact that winning is only secondary to him, if it is anything at all.

CasualOblivion:

I'm not really sure there is any significant difference between the two of them [between Casual Magic and Tournament Casual Magic.]

There is a very signifcant difference. Many of them actually, some more subtle than others. The most obvious one, being the easiest to understand as well, is that a person under the class of Tournament-Casual Magic has more ambition to win, most times even more so than the Tournament Magic player, for reasons clearly outlined. Where the Tournament player wants to win so badly, this one wants to win so badly for creative, at times egotistical and show-off reasons too. Where the Casual Magic player is less serious about this type of ambition, as he still views the game as just a game, he plays for fun, for the win, but it's not something he necessarily works at. But the Tournament-Casual player, you can say, starts where the average Casual Magic player leaves off: this one is more focused, a little more serious, and wants to win, too, at all costs. Not many, really, can match that in the Casual Magic class. The Casual Magic player is not the one who really can make headlines, so to speak. It's usually the Tournament-Casual player that makes all the waves: he's the one who spots that trick that no one saw and uses it in ways no one sees or knows; he's the unheard off daredevil of the game, the daring, bold, in your face, the "I win on my terms and you also lose on my terms" kinda player.

And like I said, all in all, the differences between each class are very hard to spot, especially if you're not really thinking about it. I thought about it for an hour or so, so I really see whatever few lines that separate each class.

CasualOblivion:

As far as the Exterior-Casual player as the "definition" of casual, at least traditionally, its more of an ideal than reality.

It's funny that you say that because although I agree with you, I can certainly say that I have met few people who I would describe as Exterior-Casual players. They are almost exactly what I described under that section.

It is indeed easier to view these as stages:

1. Exterior Magic. The beginning of all Magic players.
2. Either Casual Magic or Tournament Magic (in few exception cases, someone might even make the leap to Tournament Casual Magic right away.)
3. Tournament Casual Magic. Not everyone goes through this step. This is the hardest class to master. It requires determination and fixated characteristics to handle with caution and care.
4. Casual Exterior Magic This, like it was said, is more of an ideal than a reality, though I have seen it before. This is also a class that is not easy to attain. It requires a great level of understanding the game and experience within it; respect for it, the win, the rules, the values, the cards. It's easier to understand as the "afterhours" of a player who has experienced the competitive side of the game, whether in tournaments or otherwise.

On the second hand, now that I rethink about it, I'm not a Tournament Casual Magic player like I said just earlier. I am a Casual Magic player: I'm not quite up there with the tournament players and certainly don't have the killer instinct of the Tournament Casual player. I'm more tamed, more busy with life than able to dedicate time and energy to be a Tournament Casual player.

Congratulations, I have given myself the biggest headache since my last biggest headache. I apologize beforehand to anyone whose head becomes numb with pain after reading all this. If I hear the word "casual," "Magic," "exterior, and "tournament" within the next few hours I'll vomit my brains out...

What is kind of interesting is that there was a period of time that was largely before tournament magic, at least outside of major metropolitan centers.

I started playing in 1994-1995, during 4th edition. I lived in the Allentown, Pa area, a minor metropolitan center. At the time the internet was moderately uncommon. Magic tournaments were scattered and infrequent, usually at least a 1-2 hour drive at least, and maybe one a month I heard of. Locally there might be 4 a year. This was also 2 years before we had a local store with tables you could play at. At the time though, magic seemed to be more popular and widely played than it is now. I certainly knew and met more players back then than I do now. It just wasn't all that organized.

Back then we all played casual magic because none of us knew any better. Tournament magic was basically non-existent. The internet hadn't exploded yet, and even if you had it, there was no where near the resources there are now, and even less people knew to look for them. On top of that, tournaments were both infrequent and enough of a hassle to get to so as to not even exist to most of us. We played loose with the rules, since the rules weren't as well defined back then, and DCI Judges and the sort were something we only heard about.

The best players I knew back then would be what DUke defined as casual-external. The good players were those, and the bad players were simply external. There just wasn't any other sort of player back then, at least not that I ever met.

I didn't really start seeing what would today be called tournament play until when Weatherlight came out.

Tournament Magic. This is a class of Magic in which it is erroneous to say "winning matters." Winning matters in every format and class that actually plays the game and is not exclusive to this class. It is more correct to say that tournament Magic doesn't care how it establishes the win. The array of "net decks" that exist, copied by a many players, shows just that. Decks that win within a single turn, and usually very early in the game also belong here.

Deck building, although maybe essential and intriguing in this class, especially to those more interesting and masterful minds that help shape a "winning deck," or an archetype, it is not by all means the essence of the game. He wants to establish his win at all costs. If there are means to do so within a turn, why bother do it in 2 turns? If he has to play a color that he doesn't like because it has all the cards he wants, he has a willingness to do that. If he has to copy a deck and maybe modify it, he is willing to do that.

Additionally this player is not attached to the flavour of each color. He can build a 5 color deck easily because it establishes a win condition as fast as he set himself out to accomplish. He doesn't care that Blue is the color of "trickery, mind, air, water." He doesn't give a damn that Black is the color of "darkness, distress, death." These things are inconsequential to him, more or less, and he doesn't necessarily identify very closely with them. That said, he may have a hard time choosing a “favorite color” - at a point in time he played them all, in fact, probably build or copied decks that play them all, or many of them. He is less monomaniac and obsessive than those in other classes.

Finally, like everyone else, this player does enjoy the game. It is erroneous to suggest that tournament players can't be friendly, humane beings who can’t enjoys the lighthearted match, no matter what deck they are playing or facing. Playing a killer deck doesn’t mean he has no manners. This player doesn’t have to play in an actual tournament to play “tournament Magic”: he only needs to exhibit the instincts and urges that I described here. Though naturally, needless to say, those in this class are likely to participate in tournaments.

Casual Magic. This is a class of Magic in which it is erroneous to say that "winning doesn't matter." Winning matters in any game, and seeing that Magic is indeed a game, winning is an obvious, necessary objective. The attitude of a player engaged in this class is different than his fellow in the former class: of course he wants to win, but he is not willing to delve into colors that he doesn't necessarily find deep and personal interest in; he's not willing to play cards that may be powerful and popular only to obtain the win. He's more bound to build what he personally finds interesting. He enjoys the deck building as much as he enjoys the game play, more or less depending on the player himself. He can take the game just as seriously as anyone else, though he has his own terms.

This player is more familiar with the natures of each color in Magic. He can identify with the colors, and thus have favorites. Most of the time he can even be monomaniac and obsessive, playing almost strictly just his favorite colors and concepts, unless something in another color proves eye-catching in one way or another. What he plays can reflect who he is, as a matter of fact, to a great degree. There can be all sorts of fast and furious winning conditions in the given environment, but they mean very little to him as he can be interested in something altogether different.

The greatest misunderstanding concerning those who marvel in this class is that they are "nicer" or "more friendly" than those who indulge in the previous class. But that's far from the truth. Human beings are human beings - playing different classes of any given game, or being in a situation at any given point in time, doesn't have to have an altering effect on their personality; most of the time it can only evoke their personality. There is nothing special or great about the manners of players in this class, as they come from all kinds of backgrounds and are bound to display many behaviours, good and bad, like those of the previous class.

Some of them are sleeping tournament players only they don't realize it; others are in fact tournament players, bad ones perhaps, in disguise for one reason or another. Others may play this class because they can be the sub-standard “tournament players” within it, as in, they play this class because they can win in it, and not necessarily because they exhibit any of the instincts hitherto discussed regarding those who indulge in this class, not in any essential way, in any case. Others maybe retired tournament players, perhaps a little more serious than usual, yet still exhibit the urge to spent effort on personalizing their game play and their decks.

Finally, it is not necessary for this player to participate in tournaments, though sometimes it may be tempting or desired. The games he plays with his friends or opponents are naturally serious and mindful to all rules and objectives, though they are not at all restricted to a tournament scene, or associated with them.

Exterior Magic. This class is the loosest and has the least concern with the objectives of the game: that being, winning. I call it “exterior Magic ” because it is the farthest from the game, its rules and objectives - it is most of the time really outside of it all. It does not necessarily play the game as it is meant to be played. New rules maybe created to satisfy the group or the circumstance. The “game” here is least important. Other things - making a statement with a deck, being humorous, enjoying the company, amongst other things, are the point of focus. More so than in any other class, in here the game can serve merely, or to a great degree, as the backdrop and context to a social event, or as a fundamental reason to create friendly gathering of people; the game here is not the ends, but a means to a more sociable experience. In here, too, the newbie usually starts and lurks for a while before he either discovers deeper instincts in regards to the game, which opts him to start focusing on the game more, or simply he might find no greater joy than treating the “game” as a context for his social endeavors.

Any deck built with very little or no regard to winning is placed in this class, however seriously it may take itself. Reason being: it is not playing the game because the game is concluded at the very beginning due to the lack of focus on the winning condition. Any deck that desires to make a statement with absurd combinations, or themes, in which winning is merely consequential, accidental, or if desired at all, is placed here.

Above all, this is not saying that there is no challenge in this class. There is a challenge, of some sort, and there is an objective, though these challenges and objectives are not in terms with what a basic concept of "game" is, much less, of Magic. The challenge and objective can be one of many things: making a silly gesture with even a sillier combination of cards, seeing who can be the most annoying player in a multi-player format...etc.

Tournament-Casual Magic. This class of players blurs the already blurry lines between Tournament class and Casual class. He enjoys winning slightly more than the average person in the Casual class, and at times even more than those in the Tournament Magic class: he enjoys a killer deck, one which would use every means it has to crush the opposition, though he refuses to do this in any way, but only his way, his means, on his time.

Where a person of the Casual class may be a little too tame and less mindful to the winning and more geared towards style, a person of this class is where the killer and untamed casual instincts grows bolder and more defined. In a sense, this player has it the hardest of all: the clash between his creativity with his will to power, his personality and flavor with an environment with notable powerful cards and powerful decks which he refuses to play, at times even despising them because they are popular and "in." He's firey, restless, and wants to win, and show you how he can win while being so original it can make you cry tears of blood.

And somehow he aspires to beat it all, only on his own terms. The "rogue" player can easily be placed here. Of course he has a natural apatite for winning, more so than anyone else at times: only because he feels that he spent much brain power, time, effort, and artistry, and so winning to him is a slice of heaven, a testament of his mastery. Losing may be a little dramatic to him, but having that casual essence in him, combined with that of a tournment essence, he knows better than to dwell in his loss. He'll reinvent everything if he has to, and show you that you're wrong. Or just forget about it to create the next big secret invention of his.

This can be the most ingenious and revolutionary of players, with such raw awe-inspiring determination that rivals and exceeds that of the usual person of the Tournament Magic class. He can be the hardest working player, one who enjoys nearly every aspect of the game, and thus who enjoys its versatility.

This player can also have a deepseated attraction to the allure of the colors and their natures, and at times he may even build his decks to portray him - not that he builds such decks with weakness in mind; on the contrary! But with the same and usual (or is that unusual?) lust for creative victory that’s worthy of being rubbed in the face, not just once! This player can be the most egotistical and fixated, but all points considered, in a way, he has the right to be.

Finally, this player may or may not be interested in tournaments. The term "tournament" in the class-title only implies a type of aggressiveness and seriousness, and urge to win; while the term "casual" implies an ability to make connections that other players in other classes may not be able to spot.

Casual-Exterior Magic. This could be the hardest class to define mainly because the distinction between the Casual class and the Exterior class are already very vague, and so to combine them theoretically is difficult.

In this class resides the player who does play the game itself, with clear objective to win and all, as opposed to his fellow solely of the Exterior Magic class. However, he plays to win on loose and foggy grounds. He has no problem with his opponent forgetting an Echo cost; he has no problem with his opponent drawing an extra card accidentally and then placing it back as if it never happened. This is the player who will most likely say "but it's just a game." A game, it is indeed to him - it still has its objectives and rules, though they are not as necessary to enforce; sometimes you can even say that he's too good to care! He’s willing to “overlook” mistakes, though he is fully aware of the rules and so he doesn’t often make them himself. He can think through a strategy when needed, and have focus, but to him it is nothing more than a smaller part of the whole, the whole being the socialization, the atmosphere, the food, the entertainment, the conversations that are besides the game. Winning is great, but it’s one of many things. Of all classes, he can be the least bitter one when he loses - to him it’s just another loss, one of many, and it’s forgotten by the end of the second. He can even be less bitter than those who are of the Exterior Magic class: winning against those of that class can conclude in resentment; “of course you won, you’ve been playing for longer than I have;” “of course you won, you have better cards, I just started;” “in few weeks I’ll be able to win too.” In contrast, those of the Casual-Exterior class wouldn’t really think such things. So you won. Congratulations. They’ve won many times. The world didn’t change then, it’s not going to change now.

In a way, people of this class can indeed be the friendliest, but only because they're experienced, elegantly confident in a lot of the cases. Players in this class tend to be those who have played the game for a while, and they perhaps had belonged, or still belong, to a more competitive class such as the Casual or the Tournament class. They can be sincerely mature, without the subtle contrivance and double-mindedness that easily inhabits some of those in all other classes. In a sense, this is the "highest level" a Magic player may reach: one who has played the game, enjoyed it, and now retired to a more personal, lighthearted, sociable, mature class. This is the player that is commonly known as a “casual player.” A rarer species than made out to be, to be sure.

Of all players, a newbie cannot be in this class, as in, he cannot be what is known as a "casual player" (or with my words, an "exterior-casual player.") He just started, he hasn't reached that level in which he's aware of the game but less bound to care. He also perhaps never cared to really win, so he essentially belongs to the Exterior class, not this class. Until he learns how to win, to appreciate winning and know the value of it, he cannot graduate to this class. So in essence, to reach this class one must first have experienced Casual Magic, Tournament Magic, Tournament-Casual Magic, all, or some, for a good amount of time. Otherwise one is a newbie, and remains a newbie, which is almost the opposite of what is commonly known as "casual player" (again, in my words, an "exterior-casual player").

Very well written and informative. I only have two real problems with it, which I've stated before. What he describes as a true casual player is a very small minority of players, and I don't think what he calls "external" players should be excluded from casual magic, or excluded from being referred to as playing the game. External players are playing the game, and it can't be called anything but magic.

CasualOblivion. I didn't exclude anyone from anywhere. The term I use, which is "exterior" (not "external," but they have similar meaning, so it's fine), is just that, a term. We need to learn the subtle differences between the classes; see, I'm still referring to the Exterior class as a defined, existent class of Magic; I’m not excluding them. They are indeed playing the game, I'll even concede that to you now because you’ll never give up. But in this class winning is not at all focus, if it is regarded at all. We have to appreciate this difference between those who are in this class as opposed to those who are in the Casual Exterior class, who have altogether different reasons for not focusing on winning.

Ok. Let me put it in another way: people of the Exterior class are playing the game, but they are not allowing the game to play itself as a game: with clear objectives and rules. "They play the game, the game doesn't play them." Does that make any sense to you whatsoever? If it does at all, good, don’t try to read into it because it will lose the meaning and I'll sound stupid.

And of course the real casual player (Casual-Exterior) is a rare species. I don't understand what made you think that there are many of them. Well, on the second hand, I do understand - the term "casual player" is used so much that one naturally thinks that there are many who know what they're talking about in regards to it or are, at least, "casual players" themselves. But it's just an illusion. Think of, say, democracy as a concept. You know how people make a lot of ongoing noise about "democracy" - it's a holy word to a great majority, worldwide. But as a concept, it is nothing more than a word on paper: democracy has never existed in any human society and will never exist; it's an illusion, made into reality, if anything, by the overuse and misuse of the term. The term "casual player" has undergone the same misuse, in the process giving many illusions about it...to the point where many people will happily tell you that "casual doesn't really have a definition, it just is." That only indicates that the term had lost its actual meaning and is now "up for grabs," so to speak.

I would like to thank him for doing a great job on his post of definitions.

I agree. Thanks Duke.

But, as this is a discussion board, I have distilled the definitions down a bit to jive with my thoughts.
If I hacked your definitions to pieces, that was not my intent and I'll apologize in advance.

Tournament Magic.
Tournament Magic doesn't care how it establishes the win. The array of "net decks" that exist, copied by many players, shows just that. Decks that win within a single turn, and usually very early in the game are favored here.
Deck building is not by all means the essence of the game. He wants to establish his win at all costs. If there are means to do so within a turn, why bother do it in 2 turns? If he has to play a color that he doesn't like because it has all the cards he wants, he has a willingness to do that. If he has to copy a deck and maybe modify it, he is willing to do that.

Exterior Magic.
This class is the loosest and least concerned with winning. New rules maybe created to satisfy the group or the circumstance, while other rules can be ignored. Other things - making a statement with a deck, being humorous, enjoying the company, amongst other things, are the point of focus. More so than in any other class, in here the game can serve as the backdrop and context to a social event, or as a fundamental reason to create a friendly gathering of people; the game here is not the ends, but a means to a more sociable experience.
Any deck built with very little or no regard to winning is placed in this class, however seriously it may take itself. Any deck that desires to make a statement with absurd combinations, or themes, in which winning is merely consequential, accidental, or if desired at all, is placed here.

Tournament-Casual Magic.
This class of players blurs lines between Tournament class and Casual class. He enjoys winning slightly more than the average person in the Casual class, and at times even more than those in the Tournament Magic class. He enjoys a killer deck, one which would use every means it has to crush the opposition.
The "rogue" player can easily be placed here. He has a natural appetite for winning, more so than anyone else at times, because he feels that he spent much brain power, time, effort, and artistry, and so winning to him is good. Losing may be a little dramatic to him, but having that casual essence in him, combined with that of a tournment essence, he knows better than to dwell in his loss.
This can be the most ingenious and revolutionary of players, with such raw awe-inspiring determination that rivals and exceeds that of the usual person of the Tournament Magic class. He can be the hardest working player, one who enjoys nearly every aspect of the game, and thus who enjoys its versatility.
Finally, this player may or may not be interested in tournaments. The term "tournament" in the class-title only implies a type of aggressiveness and seriousness, and urge to win.

Casual Magic.
A casual Magic player can take the game just as seriously as anyone else.
In this class resides the player who plays the game with the clear objective to win , as opposed to his fellow solely of the Exterior Magic class. As a game, it still has its objectives and rules, though it is not as necessary to enforce the tournament penalties and disrupt the game. He will not demand a game loss if his opponent draws an extra card accidentally, mistakes are pointed out and “fixed”. He is fully aware of the rules and so he doesn’t often make them himself.
He can think through a strategy when needed, and have focus, but this is the player who will most likely say "it's just a game”. Winning is great, but it’s one of many things. Of all classes, he can be the least bitter one when he loses: “so you won”, Congratulations. They’ve won many times. The world didn’t change then, it’s not going to change now.

You completely erased the difference between Casual Magic and Casual-Exterior Magic, which is where the classical "casual player" resides. The difference is needed: because I know many who can belong under Casual Magic but not Casual-Exterior, which you have just basically fused with Casual.

You completely erased the difference between Casual Magic and Casual-Exterior Magic, which is where the classical "casual player" resides. The difference is needed: because I know many who can belong under Casual Magic but not Casual-Exterior, which you have just basically fused with Casual.

I don't see the need for Casual-Exterior, since all players will tend to move between classes or span more than one at any time.
Just my humble opinion.

Thats definitely a more inclusive definition of what is a casual player. It includes what DUke called the Exterior-Casual player at the core, adds what a decent portion of what he called a Casual Player minus a few of the more serious ones who get added to Tournament-Casual instead, and finally adds a lot of what DUke calls exterior players to it by relaxing the definition of Exterior-Casual to not require the steep amount of playing ability that he defined it as having. Exterior magic gets a makeover to be defined as joke decks, weird chaos decks, and people who put zero(instead of simply less than serious players) effort into the game.

I also agree with Mooseman's addition of the ability to be loose with the rules to the definition of casual magic. An example:

I'm playing against either a fairly new player, or a bad player who has never bothered to learn the rules that well:

1. I end my turn
2. My opponent starts his turn by playing a land.
3. Second, he untaps all his permanents.
4. My opponent taps 4 of his 6 land to play Consume Spirit on my Kitsune Blademaster.
5. He then draws his card for the turn, forgetting to deal with his Carnophage during his upkeep.

These are some major screwups, but what does it accomplish to be a jerk about it? You tell him to lose a life from the Carnophage, explain the turn sequence(most likely not for the last time), and you go on with the game. I really don't know if I could call somebody a casual player if they couldn't let something like this slide, especially when this newbie or bad player has virtually no chance of beating you no matter how bad he mangles the rules.

DÛke said:

You completely erased the difference between Casual Magic and Casual-Exterior Magic, which is where the classical "casual player" resides. The difference is needed: because I know many who can belong under Casual Magic but not Casual-Exterior, which you have just basically fused with Casual.

What you describe as a casual player barely exists. There might be a surprising number of people who fit that description on this board, but I'd be surprised if I've met more than 2 people in real life who that definition fits in 10 years of playing magic. What Mooseman described as Casual includes a large number of people that span what you defined as Casual, Casual-Exterior, and Exterior.

**EDIT**
People who cannot be included under your definition of Casual-Exterior, or Mooseman's definition of Casual can be easily defined as being Tournament-Casual players.

Well, like all basic theories at any time, people will dirty-it up to fit their own views. That's fine with me. At this point I've said what I had to say; I've given serious thought and consideration and found that my classifications are fit enough, whether they put a smile on your face or not. People refuse to live up to many subtle facts of life, "casual player" is the least of my concern at this point.

Go ahead and play with it and distort it as you please, I honestly could care less because I've given all I have to give in terms of thought and still no one will really think them through but only come out and dissect them, modify them, to put us back at the very beginning.

The lack of attention paid to the sublte differences is obvious, and frankly, it makes me tired and also rather disappointed, but I'll get over it.

I have few problems with your definitions, and almost none with your descriptions of things. The only issue I have with your "article" is mathematics. What you describe as "casual" is very exclusive, and numbers wise excludes almost every magic player.

Well, like all basic theories at any time, people will dirty-it up to fit their own views. That's fine with me. At this point I've said what I had to say; I've given serious thought and consideration and found that my classifications are fit enough, whether they put a smile on your face or not. People refuse to live up to many subtle facts of life, "casual player" is the least of my concern at this point.

Go ahead and play with it and distort it as you please, I honestly could care less because I've given all I have to give in terms of thought and still no one will really think them through but only come out and dissect them, modify them, to put us back at the very beginning.

The lack of attention paid to the sublte differences is obvious, and frankly, it makes me tired and also rather disappointed, but I'll get over it.

Well, thanks for your patience with us.
I believe that I took something that was good, but a bit vague and fuzzy and focused it.
But then again that's only my opinoin, so I wouldn't be amazed if others didn't agree.
I too am rather disappointed.......

So you guys are not casual players, and I'm not the only one who thinks that. Even I am not a casual player, by my own standards. Get over it and stop trying to force eveything just so you can feel good or prove a point. So there aren't as many casual players as you first suspected. So what? There aren't nearly enough good human beings, either. That doesn't mean we're going to redefine morality, standards, virtues, and everything just so that it can include more people. Bush is an idiot. I suppose I'm supposed to change the definition of genius to include him?