Top Cleave comps of 5.4! Ret Pally POV

Insert your own healer because yes, some are far better than others. In this case I will say disc for all of these comps dominately except for a few. Also I feel ret is the top melee spec right now so it is a little biased but if you guys want I can voice my opinions in a new thread about the overall standpoint of cleave teams in 5.4

I think ret/ww will be the toughest cleave comp to beat because of its mobility and utility, closely followed by the warrior with all the buffs they recieved I feel this comp could actually be the most dangerous cleave comps and will probably be seeing it a lot more this season.

Right and I agree with both of you but the topic is about the melee cleave teams that will be good. Because you can't denie the fact that some melee cleaves are good even if you don't play it 100% perfect you can still be another comp.

I have been playing Ret/uDK/Rsham and I can tell you it is not a cleave comp. The main problem we have is that DK and Ret are both vulnerable to wizards (hunters) when out in the open. The ret has the ability to burst and hide, but the DK "burst" is not true burst and is instead what I would call heightened sustained pressure. That means that in order to land kills the DK and Ret both have to be out in the open for a longer period of time and as such force their healer out into the open and it goes down hill from there.

If you are going to play a melee comp you want to play with classes that both have true burst, I am talking front loaded damage in 1-3 GCD/abilities. Classes that stack multiple cooldowns to increase a single ability to hit really hard. DKs do not fit into that role. The reason you want both your melee to do this is because with the current wizard burst and control you can't sit out in the open for too long or you just die.

So melee cleaves can work, but you have to stack the correct melee. These are the melee classes that I see are capable of cleaving and why:

Tier 1:
Warrior - Can charge in, stack multiple CDs and use few GCDs to accomplish huge damage then get away and turtle. Good peels, good CC.
Ret - Can stack multiple CDs for big damage on a few GCDs and has tools to make it back to cover if in trouble (freedom/bubble/bop/sac)
WW Monk - can stack multiple CDs for big front loaded damage and can escape quickly to cover as well as some nifty peeling tools.
Rogue - High burst and control but nothing after that, makes for good blow your wad then turtle for 3 minutes games. Can escape wizards out in the open.
Feral - high front loaded burst and control and ability to move across the field quickly. Will be seen less because they have been somewhat propped up by the treant stun and that coupled with cyclone nerf makes them unattractive in comparison. They are good for cleaving though.

Tier 2:
Enhance - big front loaded damage with no warning, but low mobility so once they are out in the open they are very vulnerable. Makes it hard for them to chase behind pillar to land kills.
uDK - very good spread damage but their burst is actually in the form of necrotic stacks and as such requires many GCDs to buildup which means they are open longer and do not have tools to escape quickly or mitigate damage (only AMS which is a joke atm)
FrostDK - have to sit in blood presence to live which severely cuts damage output. Has same problem as unholy that once they are out in the open they have problems escaping or mitigating damage.

uDK usually either run with another rot partner like spriest, affliction lock or boomkin or they run with a burst partner that enables them to play in the open like a mage or hunter.
Rogue normally plays in control comps because their sustained damage is not the greatest and their burst is very predictable and easy to lock down. Mostly on a team to enable the real damage dealer and sometimes contribute to kills significantly.
Enhance needs to run a burst team because that is their only trick. Once their burst is gone they are not scary at all and are pretty much worthless for 3 minutes.
WW monk has very good burst you just have to wait a bit for them to build it up.
Warrior, Ret, Feral all are able to run in, CC one person and put tons of damage into another and then escape to safety.

EDIT:
I would say that more people need to play WW honestly. They do absurd damage while having stellar control and mobility. Their downfall is that they take time to build up to that burst and as such a lot of games come down to who bursts harder in the opener. I have been gearing up a WW to play with my Ret friend and I think it will be strong from playing it casually. Once I get a good handle on the abilities I see some very good CC chains that I can land with the ret along with very good burst.

In response to you saying more people need to play WW... I honestly think WW works best in a consistent damage comp with high control, with a spriest or a warlock. I would expect to see a lot of WW/Affliction/Rdruid next patch, as they are all getting buffed (WW one is somewhat slight, now).

I agree that Ret will be one of the top melee, so best cleaves I would say will be Ret/War or Ret/Rogue for pure melee teams.

I have been playing Ret/uDK/Rsham and I can tell you it is not a cleave comp. The main problem we have is that DK and Ret are both vulnerable to wizards (hunters) when out in the open. The ret has the ability to burst and hide, but the DK "burst" is not true burst and is instead what I would call heightened sustained pressure. That means that in order to land kills the DK and Ret both have to be out in the open for a longer period of time and as such force their healer out into the open and it goes down hill from there.

If you are going to play a melee comp you want to play with classes that both have true burst, I am talking front loaded damage in 1-3 GCD/abilities. Classes that stack multiple cooldowns to increase a single ability to hit really hard. DKs do not fit into that role. The reason you want both your melee to do this is because with the current wizard burst and control you can't sit out in the open for too long or you just die.

So melee cleaves can work, but you have to stack the correct melee. These are the melee classes that I see are capable of cleaving and why:

Tier 1:
Warrior - Can charge in, stack multiple CDs and use few GCDs to accomplish huge damage then get away and turtle. Good peels, good CC.
Ret - Can stack multiple CDs for big damage on a few GCDs and has tools to make it back to cover if in trouble (freedom/bubble/bop/sac)
WW Monk - can stack multiple CDs for big front loaded damage and can escape quickly to cover as well as some nifty peeling tools.
Rogue - High burst and control but nothing after that, makes for good blow your wad then turtle for 3 minutes games. Can escape wizards out in the open.
Feral - high front loaded burst and control and ability to move across the field quickly. Will be seen less because they have been somewhat propped up by the treant stun and that coupled with cyclone nerf makes them unattractive in comparison. They are good for cleaving though.

Tier 2:
Enhance - big front loaded damage with no warning, but low mobility so once they are out in the open they are very vulnerable. Makes it hard for them to chase behind pillar to land kills.
uDK - very good spread damage but their burst is actually in the form of necrotic stacks and as such requires many GCDs to buildup which means they are open longer and do not have tools to escape quickly or mitigate damage (only AMS which is a joke atm)
FrostDK - have to sit in blood presence to live which severely cuts damage output. Has same problem as unholy that once they are out in the open they have problems escaping or mitigating damage.

uDK usually either run with another rot partner like spriest, affliction lock or boomkin or they run with a burst partner that enables them to play in the open like a mage or hunter.
Rogue normally plays in control comps because their sustained damage is not the greatest and their burst is very predictable and easy to lock down. Mostly on a team to enable the real damage dealer and sometimes contribute to kills significantly.
Enhance needs to run a burst team because that is their only trick. Once their burst is gone they are not scary at all and are pretty much worthless for 3 minutes.
WW monk has very good burst you just have to wait a bit for them to build it up.
Warrior, Ret, Feral all are able to run in, CC one person and put tons of damage into another and then escape to safety.

EDIT:
I would say that more people need to play WW honestly. They do absurd damage while having stellar control and mobility. Their downfall is that they take time to build up to that burst and as such a lot of games come down to who bursts harder in the opener. I have been gearing up a WW to play with my Ret friend and I think it will be strong from playing it casually. Once I get a good handle on the abilities I see some very good CC chains that I can land with the ret along with very good burst.

Great post. And I will agree uDKret is not a cleave team, frost ret however is definitely a cleave comp.

I completely forgot about feral I would put that in the same rank as war/ret at the number 2 spot.

Also I should make a note about this thread, I am not running any of these comps I will be running ret/mm/disc like I have since wrath. Letz try and stay focused on these cleave teams! Great feed back guys.