17 posts in this topic

Can't get off 2 ambushes in a row at pull before hitting rupture and even then my energy regen is absolute shit - SHIT!

SND AND Rupture come off cd at the same time half the time, bursting on a training dummy at 76k at the most.

been playing sin for 8 years now, I usually do as much as sub rogues when they pug in on heroics however everyone is sooo stuck on sub I have to switch, I really do not want to but am tired of guild shopping

Ok so I ranted, how can I not get off two ambushes? That's really odd to me, I know how to hit the keybinds, I'm at a loss, and the overall dps is just not very appealing,

here's my shitty training dummy attempt, would someone be so kind as to assist me please?

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Your opener in that log is messed up. You don't start a fight without SnD rolling AND full Energy. You're just blowing everything without energy and not even going ham. Second, you use Shadow Dance on opener, with Shadow Reflection and Vanish, in this order : Shadow Reflection + Vanish > Rupture >Shadow Dance + Ring > Ambush +Eviscerate fest. Save Arcane Torrent when using second Vanish after SDance, because your Ambushes will cost 20e more and you should be able to fit in two in a Vanish.

Do maintenance of your spells during inbetween Vanish/SD windows, so you don't exactly have to cast them while at it - should be Evisc+Ambushing those moments, but if it's an emergency, do not let SnD drop.

Moving from Sin to Sub is a steep move, because you gotta control little stuff to a lot in a second, but once you get the gist... Just keep practicing. =)

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Thanks for the input Lisinch, on soc last night, sure I bursted for 128k and then worked my ass off to maintain 40k. Granted I'm new to the spec however is that really all it is, like a burst and then no energy and a constant struggle to maintain rupture and snd until the next sd?

Edited February 10, 2016 by gonlaz

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You use Vanish because of your set bonus - you gain a big damage boost (30%) when you activate it. It's also an offensive cd during fights; you only ever want to wait a maximum of 6 seconds before using it if SD will come off cd in that time, and 12 seconds if SD and SR will both be up.

And yes, Sub rogue works on a pattern - you burst hard, then go into a more passive conservation style of play where you wait until you have 70-80 energy and/or 8-ish CPs before casting anything. Your burst phase ends when FW expires, and lasts until SD comes up again

_________________________________________

My own observations from the log:

You should never ever ever use Garrote, you need to open with SnD up, and you need to maximise your burst with all of your trinket procs, the Ring, etc right at the start.

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By any luck is this your armory? If so, put the glyph of Hemorrhage and change Burst of Speed to Shadowstep. Your opener will be instant, instead of running towards the boss (and wasting a bit of energy).

Also try getting more MS on your gear. This isn't exactly under your control, but start praying to RNGeesus on your raid days.

Here are what I saw - take it with a grain of salt:

- Pre SnD and prepot - this you seem to have nailed already, but you have to improve your SnD uptime (y);

- Open with Shadow Reflection then 5CP (from Vanish) Rupture and not Ambush. This'll ensure your shadow copy the Rupture (Rupture is a bleed, bypasses armor);

- At the start, you pop everything before starting to deal damage - Shadow Dance comes right after you apply Rupture. Minus 20e on your Ambushes (40e during SD) are 3~4 more Ambushes in the long run. Keep that in mind;

- I know Gorefiend swallows you, so you can't really have an 100% uptime on Rupture on it. Still, keep an eye on it - currently your uptime fluctuates around 70~80%;

- Use Preparation on your first free GCD after your first Vanish. Whenever you can't press a button because you gotta "Construct Additional Pylons", smash Prep's button; (see, I did a joke there! Funny, right? Er..)

- Watch for double casting Rupture when not under 7s. It's been a while I don't play, but IF I'm not mistaken SnD can be overwritten with a weaker version - so recast it with 7s too;

- Use Hemorrhage only on short lived mobs or to cover a gap quickly between your Ruptures (should not be happening often - all mobs have positioning to use Backstap, don't use to build CPs);

- Concerning this fight in specific, I tended to try saving or timing CDs to use on Feast. (Dunno if I'm right or wrong on this one, I'll leave Carrn to correct me on this one) You could've fit a SD inbetween 1st one and Feast;

- Remember to hold Vanish for an upcoming burst - 6s for SD, 12s for SD+SR;

Sub's opener has a lot of things going on real quick, so you should have it muscle memorized, makes it easier. I tend to not bind everything so I have control of things, but the amount of buttons adds up.

Hope I'm able to help you!

P.S.: After uploading your logs, remember to delete it from your folder. This way you have a better organized raiding logs in your WCL. ;)

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Hey thanks, btw why don't you play anymore? Also funny joke, I saw it lol

On this gorefiend fight I was actually saving SD because I feared not having it on feast, I agree more active monitoring when Feast comes I can be better at that.

Yep that's my armory, I built it around sin and combat so yeah I do need more MS for sure.

With regard to the opening, is it ok that after I prepot, premed and snd, I used a macro for "Shadow Reflection + Vanish > Rupture >Shadow Dance"? I hate to be lazy but since the opener is a bit mind blowing for a guy used to sin (although the two are similar if this is cata, before they tanked the spec I love).

Oh before I forget again, subterfuge annoys me because I have to do something for 3 seconds after pull coming out of stealth and that is playing tricks on me, I feel like it blows all my cps and energy (which is hard enough on this spec to generate) then I kinda start over, losing burst - does that make any sense how I am wording it?

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You don't exactly wait for Subterfuge to fall off. You actually don't use it on opener, but on Vanishes by themselves.

I guess, I just don't like because doing that way I tend to lose control of what I have used and whatnot. Got used to pressing some buttons... xD I suggest you train a bit with what makes you comfortable and go for it.

On the opener, you can ignore it and use everything else as if you didn't have it.

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If you use SD on cooldown, you'll have it for every feast. The first feast is at 2 minutes, so you Dance + SR on the opening, Dance with 1 minute to go, then Dance + SR again on the Feast.

It's fine to use a macro for it, but I don't simply because I enjoy having control over exactly what buttons I press when, in case I need to change something up for some reason.

Subterfuge is actually bugged - the reason using it and Glyph of Vanish is so strong, is that it actually procs a second time when you Vanish. I'l try to explain, but it's sort of complicated: when you Vanish, you gain "Improved Stealth" (the Vanish buff) for 3 seconds. If you break Vanish right away as you should, Subterfuge will proc immediately and allow you to cast openers for 3 seconds. The Glyph of Vanish increases the Vanish bufff to 5 seconds, meaning that you're still in "Improved Stealth" for 2 seconds after Subterfuge ends. When this secondary stealth breaks, you gain Subterfuge again,

TLDR: Use Subterfuge + Glyph of Vanish, ignore what they actually do and just keep up with your rotation lol

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If you use SD on cooldown, you'll have it for every feast. The first feast is at 2 minutes, so you Dance + SR on the opening, Dance with 1 minute to go, then Dance + SR again on the Feast.

It's fine to use a macro for it, but I don't simply because I enjoy having control over exactly what buttons I press when, in case I need to change something up for some reason.

Subterfuge is actually bugged - the reason using it and Glyph of Vanish is so strong, is that it actually procs a second time when you Vanish. I'l try to explain, but it's sort of complicated: when you Vanish, you gain "Improved Stealth" (the Vanish buff) for 3 seconds. If you break Vanish right away as you should, Subterfuge will proc immediately and allow you to cast openers for 3 seconds. The Glyph of Vanish increases the Vanish bufff to 5 seconds, meaning that you're still in "Improved Stealth" for 2 seconds after Subterfuge ends. When this secondary stealth breaks, you gain Subterfuge again,

TLDR: Use Subterfuge + Glyph of Vanish, ignore what they actually do and just keep up with your rotation lol

Right on, understood, thank you !

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Ok, I'm settling in, did some mythic today, upper tier, Iskar, Soc, Tyrant, Zakun, Xhul - holy crap, been a while since"different mechanics" it felt like the old days, dizzying but got me pumped, I didn't do very well considering the group was all mythic geared but I got some real good experience with it, thank you both very much :)