You should be fine with two straps across the kayak to the rack and tie downs on the box and stern to the vehicle. If you are going to use ratchet straps DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN. You just need them to be snug. You can damage your rack and kayak by over tightening.

Thanks for the tip. I will be sure to just get them snug. I am sure ill pull over many times to check the straps.

That dealer is an idiot ..........It's not going anywhere if you tie the front and the back and around the middle even without the rack and they know it. Sounds like sour grapes because you found a deal. Don't EVER buy anything from that guy.

Some of these Hobie dealers and reps are sometimes ridiculous. I had a rep tell my dealer that he couldn't install a slide on the seat that alot of the guys have installed here on this board because it would void the warranty and the added height would make it unstable. Soooo .... the dealer wouldn't install it because the rep wouldn't let him.

Now Hobies new seat is twice as high and the PA 12 is several inches narrower ......... so now it's ok to raise the height ......... needless to say, I have little respect for this east coast rep.

I just sounds like this dealer want you to buy from them

I wouldn't say that the dealer is an idiot. He was absolutely correct about the possibility of the rack and kayak flying off. He probably didn't think of the front/back tie downs. My experience of going to many kayak outtings is that I seldom see folks that have tied down the front/back of their kayaks to the vehicle. Maybe there are many more idiots out there than what we think

While DIY modifications happen, if I were a dealer, I wouldn't do them either. Sometimes there is a thin line between what is covered under warranty and what isn't. Just smart business.

frnklwrnr :You might also want to look into possibly a Hobie Revolution 11' or 13' they are much lighter than the PA (and way faster), many fishermen on this forum prefer the Revo (just my opinion though).I wouldn't be too concerned about the Kayak coming off the roof as long as it is tied down with proper straps and a bow and stern straps. I believe most of the 1 inch wide nylon straps are rated at around 800 lbs ea. As someone suggested running the straps directly over the kayak and through the car door opening might give you extra insurance if you are overly concerned.

Strapping to the T-bar supports the majority of the weight. Adding 'Y" shaped straps to the front of the boat to insure it doesn't lift or push side to side in the wind is your best bet (if you twist the straps into a spiral as you put them on they don't flutter in the wind), in addition to straps over the kayak (through the door openings if you prefer, (as long as you can open the doors)). If you look at the picture carefully you will see we have a T-bar that goes into our hitch reciever, the one we have cost us about $80 bucks (Amazon I think) and is rated at 350 lbs. The T-bar takes the stress off of the roof racks and carries most of the weight. It also spreads the footprint over a longer distance so the kayak doesn't tilt forward and back when you go over railroad tracks (not good when that happens). We have been kayaking and traveling with many different kayaks on our roof since 2007 with way over 100k road miles with no difficulties as long as the kayak is tied down properly and you use common sense when driving. Here is a pic of our Tandem Island on our roof.

There are times where we have put both our TI and a Revo on the roof and traveled great distances across the country. The rated weight capacity of any rack system should not be exceeded (I am talking about the weight of the kayak on the rack (per kayak)). The capacity of the cars factory roof racks should also be published in the cars specs. My opinion is even if you are within the cars factory roof rack capacity, don't rely on it, add extra straps where needed and I totally recommend you add one of those T-bar reciever mounts regardless of which Hobie you buy, it also makes loading the kayaks way easier. Hope this puts your mind at ease, there are plenty of places to kayak in England as well (where my family is from). Bob

Thanks for the reply and the additional tips Bob. I demoed the revo 13, outback and PA. I really liked the outback because of the stability but I loved the PA. The only reason I am making a move on the PA is because I am getting a really good deal.

I think you all are correct. I will put two straps around the middle of the yak and strap them down to the bars. I will also add a front and rear strap to the yak as well. Thanks for the tip on twisting the strap to keep it from flapping around.

I hope to find some nice spots to fish in England. We will be pretty close to London....

Four stainless handicap shower bars bolted to the pickup truck cap and cab of the truck. Four ratchet straps from bars to kayak. Have gone over 100 mph and the Yak never even budges. PA14 too. The Yak has been on the truck and has traveled well there for over 34000 miles. We travel full time.

I have a small car like yours. Mine is a Hyundai Elantra. I use the Yakima roof racks that strap by clips to the door openings since I do not have rain tracks or factory roof racks. I have a 2012 Pro Angler 12. I have never had a problem with the roof racks not behind strong enough to hold the yak on the roof. I use a ratcheted front strap from the bow straight down over the hood and attached to the undercarriage of the vehicle. I have another identical strap on the rear of the yak and two other straps also over the yak secured to each bar on the left and right side of the vehicle. I drive at highway speeds and never have a problem with the yak shifting of coming loose. I use a Yakima Boat Loader to get the yak on the racks by myself, it works great.

_________________PA12 DuneThat is why they calling it fishing and not catching.

That dealer is an idiot ..........It's not going anywhere if you tie the front and the back and around the middle even without the rack and they know it. Sounds like sour grapes because you found a deal. Don't EVER buy anything from that guy.

Some of these Hobie dealers and reps are sometimes ridiculous. I had a rep tell my dealer that he couldn't install a slide on the seat that alot of the guys have installed here on this board because it would void the warranty and the added height would make it unstable. Soooo .... the dealer wouldn't install it because the rep wouldn't let him.

Now Hobies new seat is twice as high and the PA 12 is several inches narrower ......... so now it's ok to raise the height ......... needless to say, I have little respect for this east coast rep.

I just sounds like this dealer want you to buy from them

I wouldn't say that the dealer is an idiot. He was absolutely correct about the possibility of the rack and kayak flying off. He probably didn't think of the front/back tie downs. My experience of going to many kayak outtings is that I seldom see folks that have tied down the front/back of their kayaks to the vehicle. Maybe there are many more idiots out there than what we think

While DIY modifications happen, if I were a dealer, I wouldn't do them either. Sometimes there is a thin line between what is covered under warranty and what isn't. Just smart business.

No they are idiots ........ if they are a dealer then they know how to tie down a yak and wouldn't say such stupid things. If they were reputable they would have given proper instruction as to how to tie it down. If they don't know how to even tie down a yak then they shouldn't be a Hobie dealer.

And my dealer was perfectly willing to do the modifications until the Rep forbid him to using the reason that the additional 2 " in height would make a PA 14 unstable. ...... but there is nothing wrong with the 3" additional height and the several inches less in width of the PA 12 today. This was between me and my dealer and he had no business getting involved in it. Instead the dealer lost revenue on that and some other purchases I would have made through him. That destroyed any loyality I had for that dealer so now I just shop for deals anywhere I can get them.

I have a small car like yours. Mine is a Hyundai Elantra. I use the Yakima roof racks that strap by clips to the door openings since I do not have rain tracks or factory roof racks. I have a 2012 Pro Angler 12. I have never had a problem with the roof racks not behind strong enough to hold the yak on the roof. I use a ratcheted front strap from the bow straight down over the hood and attached to the undercarriage of the vehicle. I have another identical strap on the rear of the yak and two other straps also over the yak secured to each bar on the left and right side of the vehicle. I drive at highway speeds and never have a problem with the yak shifting of coming loose. I use a Yakima Boat Loader to get the yak on the racks by myself, it works great.

You should be aware of the complications that can occur when putting a boat on a roof rack, including the handling differences that your vehicle will have (such as a limited ability to safely swerve, or brake in an emergency) but what you've been told is beyond concern, and goes into the realm of fear. You shouldn't be scared to roof rack your boat.

Here's what you need to know.

A modern day Yakima rack (with Q towers) will not only grip your car where the BLACK arrows show, but will also hug your car as shown by the RED arrows. Modern racks are MUCH more secure than older racks if they are installed correctly.

Secondly, attach a bow and stern line. These are designed to do two things. First of all, if a boat, or the rack does somehow manage to break loose, the boat will remain on the roof of your car, and give you time to pull over. The second thing they are designed to do, is prevent that lifting force in the first place. The bow and stern line should be snug, but not tight. You don't want to bend your boat, but you DO want to limit the amount of lift that can occur.

I always prefer to use cradles. I use the Yakima Mako saddles. They act like a suspension to the boat, allowing the boat to move just a little bit over rough surfaces, but also, when the boat does feel like lifting, the slight give in the saddles actually prevents the forces from putting bending forces on the boat, and instead will slightly compress and decompress the saddles.

To get an idea of what the Mako Saddles do, picture them as 4 of the Beach wheels from a Hobie cart holding the boat. If you lift on the front of the boat, the rear wheels will slightly compress, which transfers the forces from the boat to the wheels, or in my case, the saddles.

Finally, I've taken a complete AI, with Ama's and sail on the roof of our old Civic, and still had a Revolution beside it. No problems with the lifting forces, the rack never budged. Do yourself a favour and get a modern rack, install it correctly (which is simple, but important) and keep your speed reasonable, and you'll be fine.

Frank, my nearest dealer is 150 miles from my house. So when I bought my PA14, I had the same concerns as you. The dealer installed a pair of Hully rollers on my Durango's rear cargo bar. I ran two ratchet straps under the Pranglers's carry handles and a rope from bow to front bumper.

Drove home at 70 mph in strong Idaho winds. The Prangler never budged an inch. I haven't had a worry since.

As a side note: I strapped my outback upside down on the bars. And guess what, I got better gas milage. Also I made sure to have the front and back of the yak ties down to the hood and bumper so I would not twist in the wind. The twisting action will rip the rack of the roof of the car. It will work so be careful and make sure you have good tiedowns.

because it would void the warranty and the added height would make it unstable.

Completely reasonable for a dealer to be concerned about modifying something outside factory spec. They clearly were concerned about voiding the warranty and if they did the work, they assume the liability. DIY is the way to go on that kind of stuff. Don't blame a dealer for not wanting to take a risk on your behalf.

The PA 12 floor is built differently and intended to take the loads of the higher seat.

The Hobie factory is not the source for automotive specifications and rack load limits. There is no way we can advise on that... what we do advise is to abide by car and rack load specification provided by the auto maker and the rack companies. We also note the bow and stern tie-downs in the manual.

and yes... I have seen a factory roof rack come clean off a car... boat and rack sliding down the interstate. This was from driving through a mountain pass at highway speeds... with mountain shear winds that blasted the load and failed the rack. I do not believe they had the bow lines. I carried that load (Hobie Wave) back through the mountains for them on the return trip with tiedowns through the truck cab. The wind was rugged!