In my opinion, this seems like an excessive and unrealistic commitment for the convention to undertake. It makes more sense for people who require such a place to get a hotel room at the Embassy Suites. They offer top-of-the-line suites that can support families. The Embassy Suites hotel is across the street from the Palais des Congres.

_________________Victor Yap:: 10+ Years of Otakuthon ♠~♣~♥~♦"Roses are Red; Violets are Blue; Will you be my Otaku?"

why should I take a hotel if I live in Montreal? it's not a good argument. you can't tell someone from Montréal who would like to come with their family just to take a hotel room. I won't book a room at the hotel only to breastfeed my baby and there's no place to go if I want the father to be with me. By law, I know I can breastfeed everywhere but I'm pretty sure people will complaint if my boobs are showing because of that. can you just at least tell me where I should go to breastfeed?

it's already hard enough for parents to go out and it's expensive, I won't spend money in useless hotel room. parents won't spend the entire day at a con either. My son is coming with me but I'll be there from 1pm until 5. I'd rather make the best of my time. last year at Montreal comic-con, they let me go in the greenroom before they opened for participants and it was really appreciated. you already have few parents who committed themselves to help, provide stuff and volunteer for the room. it would be said in the rules that parents are responsibles for their kids and they can't leave them there without their supervising. it's not a daycare.

also, does it include the kid track? Numerous cons have started to introduced kids track in their programming schedule (world-con, costume-con etc). I tried for myself to give a panel for cosplaying parents who go to cons but it was rejected because there wasn't enough time slots. could you open one time slot a day to include something kid oriented? it won't cost you a lot to at least make a survey to see if there is enough interest on the matter (like on Facebook) and at least, it would have shown an openmind to new ideas, you could always said to have tried.

Did you do a similar panel at G-Anime? I missed it because it was too soon for me and hoped I could see it at Otakuthon. That's sad that your panel was rejected. I kinda feel alone in that new reality as a cosplaying mom and would've liked to talk about such matters with other con-going parents. People assume that you'll "grow up" and stop what they consider childish hobbies. But, I digress.

Wow, I think it's pretty sad the convention don't want to make a space like this. More and more families are coming to conventions each year. If anyone want to organize something like this next year, I would not mind helping by the way.

First off, thank you for the suggestion. We value input from our attendees.

We are aware of the many loyal attendees who introduce the little members of their families to the fandom at a young age. Otakuthon aims to be a family-oriented convention, offering a kids programming track and free entry to the convention for children aged 11 and under. However, as it is already late in the planning process, it is difficult to make changes at this stage, so a formal setup can only be considered for future years.

We apologize in advance for any inconvenience that this may cause for the current year. Any help with this for future years would be appreciated.

I think it's pretty sad when "in my opinion" gets misinterpreted as "the official word of the convention".

However, the plethora of the wishlist points being raised here seem quite incompatible with each other: quiet space + play space + private space.

The Palais des Congres is huge, to begin with. Why do we need the suggestion that there be a dedicated facility created within Otakuthon space, when there's already plenty of freely available, relatively quiet space somewhere in the Palais ? It seems like certain among the posters here can't seem to simply move 50m out of Otakuthon space to find one of tons of family-friendly zones ! It also seems that certain among the posters here are complaining about poverty and using that as an argument to demand that the convention run a full social program.

For your information, I'm of the opinion that this is excessive and unrealistic, because, the costs in terms of time and money needed to produce a so-called "Family Space" is far greater than the cost of renting a hotel.

Need a quiet, relatively private space (ie: secluded, but possibly still public) ? Easy, just get away from Otakuthon's areas. 50m away in any direction should do the trick.

Need a place for family-bonding ? This should practically be anywhere, including Otakuthon.

Need a place to nap ? Try a quiet space, like above.

Need a place for kids to a run around and stomp and make noise ? This should practically be anywhere, including Otakuthon. This is the incompatible piece. I was getting the impression that family space needed to be quiet.

Got more requirements, like a fully "equipped" family space ? Then, currently available, without making any changes at Otakuthon, are hotel suites.

Your family is too poor to afford a hotel suite ? How about 2, or more families pitching in together ? At least when families pitch together, they're creating much more valuable social bonds and friends. It also takes a huge load of effort off the convention's shoulders !

Even in the future, if Otakuthon were to create a family space, I think it has 2 options: at the edge of Otakuthon space in the Palais des Congres, or, in a hotel suite. Which do you think is the most cost effective one ? How should cost-effective be measured: quietness, privacy, facilities, furnishings, amenities, services, distance. A few hotels for consideration: Holiday Inn (I wouldn't want my family in this), Embassy Suites (a good option), Westin (far), Intercontinental (far), Premiere Executive Suites (maybe), Atlific (TBD), Le Place d'Armes Hotel & Suites (far), Le Dauphin (far).

If Otakuthon were to undertake the "creation of family space", you can bet that there be several long debates about "where" it should be, for starters. Different people will have different demands on that question. How does Otakuthon make the right choice, really ? Beggars can't be choosers, right ? I can already see complaints and feelings burning up in the event that the convention committee of future years does decide to pick a particular space. The complainers seem to have more to say that those who are satisfied, and the staff will just feel the hate piled on because of yet another "mistake / issue".

The hotel options all work immediately; and they don't need Otakuthon intervention. The "let's wait for Otakuthon to make a space" path may or may not ever happen for various reasons; and, if it does happen, it might not even be good enough to serve certain families, but it may be perfect for others, and there will probably be many families who completely missed using such a space because they didn't even hear about it.

Finally, instead of complaining about my opinions and/or getting hot and bothered, this idea will be better served if you offer to constructively debate and/or dump ideas and alternative solutions, in reply, out here! It's far more constructive than exploding in feelings and breaking down.

_________________Victor Yap:: 10+ Years of Otakuthon ♠~♣~♥~♦"Roses are Red; Violets are Blue; Will you be my Otaku?"

first of all, thank you Alex for your kind response. I knew when I made the suggestion it was too late for this year's event, but I wanted to mention it anyway so it could be brought up at the very beginning of next year's planning.

as for Victor's answer, when I was moderator, we were always thought to be very careful with our answers because we were Otakuthon's voice, the same applied to the staff. your answer could have been less rude.

it's not about poverty, it's about making the most of my money. like if I want to eat at a restaurant, I'll choose a St-Hubert because they have a kid playroom instead of going to another restaurant.

of course I have tons of toys with me when I go out. it's not always easy to run behind a toddler in a place full of new things and people. as parents, we do understand that a room can be at the same time calm and with full of running kids, we share the same problems. try just 2 seconds to be in our shoes when our kid starts screaming and do the Bacon on the floor because they are too overwhelm. we feel like we are a burden. every time I have to go somewhere, I ask myself if it's worth it. Otakuthon was the only convention I was planning on going for the next few years because of my family and just wanted to suggest something to make it better for me and other parents as well.

people will always complain about everything, it doesn't means that we shouldn't try to do things. I only try to be part of the change I want to see in the world

First off, thank you for the suggestion. We value input from our attendees.

We are aware of the many loyal attendees who introduce the little members of their families to the fandom at a young age. Otakuthon aims to be a family-oriented convention, offering a kids programming track and free entry to the convention for children aged 11 and under. However, as it is already late in the planning process, it is difficult to make changes at this stage, so a formal setup can only be considered for future years.

We apologize in advance for any inconvenience that this may cause for the current year. Any help with this for future years would be appreciated.

Thank you for your answer. I understand that it is too late for this year, and I was already prepared to attend the convention without a dedicated space for parents. I cannot do a lot as I do not have the time, but I would be happy to give my input for future years.

starlocke, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Yes, we can leave Otakuthon premises and yes, we can rent hotel rooms, however this is sending a certain message to con-goers, in my opinion. As of my experience of last year, I'm not sure I would recommend Otakuthon to families with very young kids (I'll see with this year's kids programming track). I understand the complexity of the request, but if Otakuthon is opened to make it easier for families to visit their convention, they will attract a whole new bunch of attendees. Believe me, parents crave fun family-friendly outings and word of mouth is very powerful among them. It's an investment (because I know that Otakuthon is short on rooms each year), but I think that it would benefit Otakuthon in the end, money-wise.

People will always complain, that's a fact of life. But it's not because a project will be complex and can be burdensome that it's not worth it, no?

Hi, complete outsider here, so take me with a grain of salt and please don't kill me, heh. I'm just offering what I see on this valuable debate.

While I am a firm believer that parents should be responsible for the well-fare of their own children and not insist on being coddled by the events they choose to attend (I'm not saying you are doing this either, but for the sake of argument, I am exaggerating),Otakuthon could nevertheless stand to be more family-friendly, if they are billing themselves as a family-friendly convention. I mean, if there are volunteers who are willing to sort of "take care of" a space dedicated to family quiet time, couldn't Otakuthon say, plan for one of those extra rooms just to that effect next year? I'm speaking as a regular table-holder who's been directly affected by the antics of children under the (understandable) influence of Convention, hahaha... some could definitely stand to have a space to wind down some, without any offense to the parents meant. As for those extras, like activities and snacks and toys for kids, I personally feel that's kind of pushing it because I feel like Otakuthon is a convention, not a daycare (unless they really DO want to pursue that model, which may very well be appreciated)... but I digress. My opinions may very well change on the matter eventually.

I think that, while his point was poorly and condescendingly made, what Starlocke probably means is that if Otakuthon starts catering to every con-goer whim, extra costs incurred might make ticket prices increase, the spaces will become limited, and etc, etc etc. It's also quite a huge burden on Otakuthon staff, who are already pretty much spread thin, from my understanding of it. I also have to question if bringing toddlers to an anime convention is a good idea as a general practice, if only because of the potentially questionable content and well, from a dirty-ness perspective, which I must admit I see at times. But still, that's not my place to judge anyway, and people will be bringing kids no matter what as anime fans cross that new life threshold, so perhaps it's time to adjust to the times.

I hope none of what I said will be taken offensively, as I truly don't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, parents or organizers alike. I was just offering an honest opinion.

I understand your point of view. I don't think it's catering every congoer whim, this space here is for suggestions so people should be able to ask if something is possible. I don't think that there are any fool's ideas, it can always be a space to improve.

the fandom is growing up. I've been staffing at cons and was a cosplay guest and people always did their best to accomodate me with my child. I don't see myself stop staffing at these events just because I have a kid. and it's only normal to want to show your kid your passion. sci-fi conventions had the same problems few years ago, why wouldn't it be the same with anime cons?

Please tell me this is a troll post. I absolutely fail to see the issue in Starlocke's statement. So what if he/she focused on the logistics? Logistics have to take an utmost importance before anything else. It's fine and dandy if you want a parents corner; I'm all for it and it's a cool idea, but if you can't pay for it, or not worth paying for, it remains as a poor decision regardless of whichever perspective you look at it from. Don't forget that Otakuthon is a non-profit convention. They don't have the mountains of cash to shovel like like Otakon or Katsucon.

And this has been bothering me for the majority of this thread and I may be overstepping my bounds by saying this and I'll apologize now. Just because Starlocke is Otakuthon staff, doesn't change the fact that he/she is a human being with the entitlement to an opinion. It's absolutely obsurd to give him/her flack for stating his/her stance on the subject. And he's/she's being frank, only this and nothing more. More stuff gets done by being direct.

You're seriously taking what he said out of context. He equally said that if you were to just move 50m away, heck go closer to Viger hall, and not a soul will disturb you. That seems like a sound argument.

starlocke wrote:

Got more requirements, like a fully "equipped" family space ? Then, currently available, without making any changes at Otakuthon, are hotel suites.

He also clearly said without making changes to the Otakuthon setup. As the admin kindly stated, its too little too late for this year, so if you want space and want it now, Hotel is the way to go.

He even went as far as to mention the perks of sharing a hotel room. Get two or three sets of famililes to split the room, it wont cost you too much and your kids will have a blast. Not to mention all the quiet and private space in the world. All in all, He was merely making a suggestion, respect it as that. There is plenty of quiet space as he mentioned as well as pretty isolated places where you won't be disturbed. If you want your own absolutely private place to stay, that's your own prerogative. Nobody else's.

I just would like to point out that in the admin reply, he said that Otakuthon was aiming at being a family-oriented convention. and as any family-oriented events, you should do your best to help those families to have a good time. You can't aim to be family-oriented from one part but tell the parents that they should find a spot elsewhere if they need it. I totally understand that it's too late for this year. I knew it when I posted the suggestion and if you read it, I've never asked for it for this year either. I've just said it would be an interesting idea to consider.

False. There exists many rooms that are not booked by Otakuthon in the Palais des Congres. Also, no matter where it's produced (inside or outside of the Palais des Congres), furnishing and equipping a room for family mode costs TIME + MONEY + STAFF + ETC. This cost is not trivial. In contrast, if families find their own spaces for their family time, the cost does become trivial.

In the short term -- families just need to be more aware of space, and find their own quiet zones. Options exist, from free to paid-for, and Otakuthon doesn't need to get involved.

In the long term -- which should Otakuthon try to do first: (1) make a dedicated family space (2) add/convert existing programming facilities/events/activities into family-oriented activities, geared specifically for groups with children aged 0-4, and 5-8 ?

Hey, aren't activities more worthwhile to produce than mere family space ? It's open to all, and features kids and/or parents ! Plus, the equipment needed is very similar. Oh, and there's less risk that the space is wasted (empty) !

Here's one for you: Tea with Toddlers. Pick a date and a time, gather together at the Cosplay Cafe, buy some food and drink, engage with other families with toddlers at a round-table event, come up with other activities and events that can work as family activities at an anime convention ! The terrace is often relatively quiet, compared to the inside.

_________________Victor Yap:: 10+ Years of Otakuthon ♠~♣~♥~♦"Roses are Red; Violets are Blue; Will you be my Otaku?"