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Actually since my reply was to Zero327 it related to the CSR jobs. Those fine folks who show up at all hours to listen to crabby customers ask for the world and a 50% discount off of the sale price.

The people in software development would not have that lifestyle. Nor the turnover ratio.

DISH isn't just "another job", good, bad or otherwise. DISH isn't average at much of anything. When they get it right, they REALLY get it right, and when they f*ck it up...

You cannot have any concept of what working for DISH is like unless you've actually signed on. Comparing a "rough day" at DISH to a regular job is like comparing a Geek Squad employee from Best Buy with an Engineering Director at Intel. Sure, the base concept of their jobs are roughly the same (troubleshooting), but the intensity, the expectations, the accountability, the weight of that statement does not accurately convey reality.

In Colorado there's a saying: You don't work for DISH, you survive it.

Did you know that most employers around DISH consider 1 year of working for them to 7 elsewhere? DISH employment is literally counted in dog years. If you actually do survive there for a few years, some employers won't hire you for fear that if you made it in DISH long-term, you "fit" into their culture; it's not considered a good thing.

Yes, there are worse places to work I'm sure; actually I can quote DISH's CEO now as he's apparently worked for them. But I'm saying few of them have so well-earned a reputation.

Edited by Zero327, 13 September 2012 - 08:00 PM.

Four universal truthes:1. All is fair in love and war.2. Nothing is absolute but death and taxes.3. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

DISH isn't just "another job", good, bad or otherwise. DISH isn't average at much of anything. When they get it right, they REALLY get it right, and when they f*ck it up...

You cannot have any concept of what working for DISH is like unless you've actually signed on. Comparing a "rough day" at DISH to a regular job is like comparing a Geek Squad employee from Best Buy with an Engineering Director at Intel. Sure, the base concept of their jobs are roughly the same (troubleshooting), but the intensity, the expectations, the accountability, the weight of that statement does not accurately convey reality.

In Colorado there's a saying: You don't work for DISH, you survive it.

Did you know that most employers around DISH consider 1 year of working for them to 7 elsewhere? DISH employment is literally counted in dog years. If you actually do survive there for a few years, some employers won't hire you for fear that if you made it in DISH long-term, you "fit" into their culture; it's not considered a good thing.

Yes, there are worse places to work I'm sure; actually I can quote DISH's CEO now as he's apparently worked for them. But I'm saying few of them have so well-earned a reputation.

Your attributing some universal things in the call center business as Dish only problems lol.

Really? Do tell...because there's not a single reference in any post I've made whatsoever that are directly attributed to a call center job.

In fact, my statements apply from the lonely CSR all the way up. Assumptions are great, tell Umption I said hi.

Four universal truthes:1. All is fair in love and war.2. Nothing is absolute but death and taxes.3. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

Your attributing some universal things in the call center business as Dish only problems lol.

Well in my 20+ years there, absolutely ZERO were spent working in a call center. Rather I was in what would most definitely be called a white collar professional position.

With that said, I can with full experience say that Zero327 is right on the mark.

Anyone else can try and spin it however they like, but I am absolutely speaking with experience. Dish/Echo have a horrible reputation in the Denver employment market. Of course in the current market this reputation has very minimal impact. But I can assure you there will be a mass exodus when the economy finally heats back up. I've seen it happen there before and it most certainly will again.

James, you did question me on the topic related aspects ... I would point you (if you missed ) to a post#33 as supporting my point of view.

JosephF says they have a horrible reputation in the Denver employment market. What services are provided out of Denver and what services are provided out of other markets?

Is there an uplink center in Denver that we somehow missed? There were 10 uplink centers the last time I counted ... and none were in Denver. There are hardware and software development centers outside of Denver as well.

I'm sure that if you could eliminate the call center employees and installers from the complainers DISH's reputation in Denver (and elsewhere) would be fine. If you could eliminate people who also complain about their previous or next job they would likely be even better. Some people live to complain.

You missed or intentionally try to ... That's THE company 'culture' regardless of attempts to reduce the circle to Denver only. Perhaps you understand it's not local (like Denver) management atmosphere and it's propagating from one point - from a top.

You missed or intentionally try to ... That's THE company 'culture' regardless of attempts to reduce the circle to Denver only. Perhaps you understand it's not local (like Denver) management atmosphere and it's propagating from one point - from a top.

I recognize that it is the OPINION of those people complaining that it was a culture problem starting at the top - but I reject their assertion that they are correct.

Perhaps their part of DISH was screwed up ... perhaps not and the complainers are just blaming their problems on someone else. DISH has plenty of dedicated long term employees both in the Denver area and outside the Denver area who are not complaining. To say that those complaining speak for all 34k employees is a huge assumption.

Edited by James Long, 15 September 2012 - 11:42 AM.Corrected number of employees

Sure ... but limit yourself to lawsuits related to being employed by DISH.

Some people take every opportunity to pile on a company that does one thing that they do not agree with. We would not want this to become one of those threads.

You sound just like Joe and Charlie... That's not an opinion, that's a fact based on previous observations compared with your last three posts.

If someone says the sky is blue, pointing out that on some days it's gray doesn't change the base fact that the majority of the time, more often than not, it is in fact blue. When the majority of a region says one particular employer has severe problems, pointing to the one office in the inbred backwoods of Kansas doesn't prove otherwise; it just proves that if you look hard enough, you can find SOME small exception, SOMEWHERE.

Four universal truthes:1. All is fair in love and war.2. Nothing is absolute but death and taxes.3. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

You sound just like Joe and Charlie... That's not an opinion, that's a fact based on previous observations compared with your last three posts.

No, you are wrong. Your statement is an opinion. You cannot make it a fact by simply declaring it to be a fact.

The same goes for your previous statements ... they too are opinions ... which is fine as long as you don't make the mistake of claiming them as facts. We all share our opinions on this forum. Some use facts (real facts) to support their opinions but the conclusions drawn remain opinions.

You should sign up. With unintuitive and inflexible logic like that you'd fit in nicely.

Four universal truthes:1. All is fair in love and war.2. Nothing is absolute but death and taxes.3. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

So ... if DISH is such a bad employer with such a nasty reputation in their home town of Denver why do people work there? Why did you work there?

Well that's easy.

Because they're one of very few Fortune 500 companies based in Colorado. As such they're also one of the largest employers in the state. The company itself may fluctuate around 30k employees, but if you take the meat grinder into account, an obscene number of people have been through the slaughterhouse over the years.

I'm not sure it would be an exaggeration to say that some whole percentile of Colorado applicants likely pass through DISH at some point in their lives. The reasons vary, but they touch a lot of people, not all CSRs.

Four universal truthes:1. All is fair in love and war.2. Nothing is absolute but death and taxes.3. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

JosephF says they have a horrible reputation in the Denver employment market. What services are provided out of Denver and what services are provided out of other markets?

Is there an uplink center in Denver that we somehow missed? There were 10 uplink centers the last time I counted ... and none were in Denver. There are hardware and software development centers outside of Denver as well.

I'm sure that if you could eliminate the call center employees and installers from the complainers DISH's reputation in Denver (and elsewhere) would be fine. If you could eliminate people who also complain about their previous or next job they would likely be even better. Some people live to complain.

I'll give you that call center employees especially and to some degree installers as a general rule are going to be unhappy. They (especially the CSRs) have horrible jobs that I would never want to do. I've double-jacked on many calls and don't see how they do it for any period of time. I also went on multiple truck rolls and found that generally speaking the techs were much happier than the CSRs.

That said, I started with the company LONG before Dish Network ever existed. Their poor reputation started long before Dish as well.

My last role was one where I worked closely with all of the technical arms of the business (Engineering, Service, Call Centers & Field Service). I dealt with people from the executive level (of which I was a direct report to) to the agents & techs, so I can speak in a rather well informed manner. Generally I would say that middle management and worker bee turnover is terrible. Most of the senior level people are very vested in the company and have succumbed to the Dish way of doing things.

Why did I stay... first and foremost this was my first Engineering job and I didn't know any better. Also as an entry level Engineer it was a great environment to learn and grow. That environment still exists today, but to a much lesser degree as the roles have become more specialized and the work environment more like a sweatshop. Still it is a good place for a young Engineer to learn and grow (then move on to a much better workplace -- which happens all the time).

The two main uplink centers (Cheyenne & Gilbert) are not as bad as the corporate environment largely because they are far enough away and that the scope of their work has far less corporate control.

The Atlanta & UK Engineering centers fare only slightly better than Denver, but only because of the distance and limited autonomy that comes from not having the Denver senior management on site often.

Frankly I could give a rats @$$ if you believe what I say. I lived it for more than 20 years, I still see people from there on a weekly basis and have moved on to a much better work environment (although less interesting work). So, I'm ready to be done with this topic

They are only one of the larger employers because people agree to work there. People like the ones DoyleS noted: "In the current economy I would venture to guess that there are plenty of people that would step up to take vacated jobs at Dish and be thankful for it. Just my opinion."

There seem to be plenty of openings ... but for a company of that size opening are to be expected. And the long hours/high pressure jobs such as CSR and installer are typically hard jobs. I doubt that Thom Beers will give them a "reality show" where we can follow their lives like Ice Road Truckers.

They are only one of the larger employers because people agree to work there. People like the ones DoyleS noted: "In the current economy I would venture to guess that there are plenty of people that would step up to take vacated jobs at Dish and be thankful for it. Just my opinion."

There seem to be plenty of openings ... but for a company of that size opening are to be expected. And the long hours/high pressure jobs such as CSR and installer are typically hard jobs. I doubt that Thom Beers will give them a "reality show" where we can follow their lives like Ice Road Truckers.

I'm seriously beginning to think you're either a DISH apologist, or on their payroll James.

You have received answers to your questions, and everything has a rebuttal. I went to the store the other day. I bought sweet tea instead of green tea. I could have bought green tea, but the sweet tea was closer to my right side and since I'm right handed, I chose it... That example is beginning to mirror your logic at this point.

People work for DISH because it's a big name, they're as I recall Denver's largest employer and it's easier to get an opening at a company that size than a smaller one where you may be laid off should the business go under or your salary quickly become too much for them to manage. That doesn't make them a better business, and honestly size doesn't make them any worse either.

But what they do to people once you're on board, THAT is the issue most have with them. So now you have answers. If they are insufficient, you really need to fill out an application. Because I haven't seen a single legitimate reason for you to refute the claims being made, and it appears that only first hand abuse is going to allow you to fully accept some of the statements being made. If you can't be convinced, go convince yourself.

Get back with us after a year or three.

Four universal truthes:1. All is fair in love and war.2. Nothing is absolute but death and taxes.3. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

I still cannot believe that a company with what has been reported as such a bad reputation in the marketplace would be able to hire unless 1) people are just that desperate for work (as DoyleS suggested) or 2) people are really stupid and accepted the job despite the reputation or 3) DISH's reputation is not as bad as portrayed by a few haters on the Internet.