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You guys should check out CSFBL at csfbl.com. It's completely free and VERY, VERY deep. If you get into a really good, active, competitive league with a league constitution, etc....it can be very engrossing. I've been playing since 2004. At the moment they are working on a new version of CSFBL that's taken them quite a bit of time. From what I hear from the developers...it's going to be EXTREMELY deep. And it's completely free. The current version of CSFBL is deep enough to warrant a monthly charge, but they refuse to instate one.

You guys should check out CSFBL at csfbl.com. It's completely free and VERY, VERY deep. If you get into a really good, active, competitive league with a league constitution, etc....it can be very engrossing. I've been playing since 2004. At the moment they are working on a new version of CSFBL that's taken them quite a bit of time. From what I hear from the developers...it's going to be EXTREMELY deep. And it's completely free. The current version of CSFBL is deep enough to warrant a monthly charge, but they refuse to instate one.

I love it.

Dude, that is awesome. Went there this morning. Thank you for the find!

You're very welcome. Stick with it, post a lot on the boards and get to know people. Eventually you'll get asked to join (if not just apply) to one of the hardcore baseball fan premier leagues. Have patience as well...apparently the new version is going to be even more deep than the original (if that's even possible).

I've been playing OOTP since I was in college. I started with OOTP 2 and I've purchased every OOTP since then. While I don't like the fact OOTP 2007 is so deep (since I have limited time these days) I must admit, it's the baseball sim of my dreams. How I wish this game came out 5 years earlier -- then again, maybe I don't. I probably would have locked myself in my house and never met my wife or finished school. It's that good.

OOTP 2007 is the ultimate baseball sim. I suggest every die hard baseball fan own it.

Bleeding Cardinal Red since 1985
In the stands for every home playoff game since then -- 2006 and 2011 were well worth the wait!

Well with Baseball Mogul you don't need to download the Lahman database to play historical season- it's already in the game. I've played BBM and OOTP, and after I downloaded the OOTP demo I regretted it. I don't want to see Andy Anderson and Steve Smith, I want to see Babe Ruth and Ted Williams. I can't stand sims with fictional players, because I just don't know them. I don't know who I like and who I don't like, and I have no idea if I should trade Andy Anderson for Steve Smith, but I can know to trade Willie Bloomquist if I get Ted Williams in return. OOTP is also kind of slow, while BBM is incredibly fast. They both have OK features (lineups, trades, free agents).
Overall I'd give BBM an A and OOTP a D.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I'd love to know why you like OOTP more.

BBM has absolutely none of the depth that OOTP has. The sim engine is all out of whack as well. For example, I started in 1997 as the Red Sox and Pedro Martinez had a 5.61 ERA in 1999. Another time, I started in 1900, and one season the Browns went 0-154. OOTP is completely customizable, you can do whatever you want. I guess if you don't feel like putting any time into a sim game, and you just want the immediate gratification of not having to download something, unzip it into a specific folder, and click a couple extra buttons, then Mogul is for you. But it comes with the tradeoffs of fake players once you go more than one year in, awful sim engines, and no oppurtunity to import anybody other than what the game gives you. It has absolutely no depth, you get 40 guys on your major league roster, and that's it.

In OOTP, if you take the time to download the Arod/Garlon DB (better than Lahman), then it will automatically adjust ratings each season, automatically put players in the HoF, automatically assign REAL incoming players to their correct teams, automatically adjust league modifiers, and loads more stuff. Mogul by contrast forces you to keep playing at 1900 levels for everything, creates fake players for you to draft (not even giving you the option of importing the actual rookies to their actual teams), and if you don't attend the draft, drafts awful players for you. Mogul can't handle expansion, which OOTP does pretty well, and has none of the depth of OOTP. There is no DFAing of players, you just get rid of them. There is no scouting or coaching system, no Negro Leaguers, Japanese leaguers, or anybody besides MLB players. Mogul is worthless next to OOTP once you actually explore all the depth of OOTP.

BBM has absolutely none of the depth that OOTP has. The sim engine is all out of whack as well. For example, I started in 1997 as the Red Sox and Pedro Martinez had a 5.61 ERA in 1999. Another time, I started in 1900, and one season the Browns went 0-154. OOTP is completely customizable, you can do whatever you want. I guess if you don't feel like putting any time into a sim game, and you just want the immediate gratification of not having to download something, unzip it into a specific folder, and click a couple extra buttons, then Mogul is for you. But it comes with the tradeoffs of fake players once you go more than one year in, awful sim engines, and no oppurtunity to import anybody other than what the game gives you. It has absolutely no depth, you get 40 guys on your major league roster, and that's it.

In OOTP, if you take the time to download the Arod/Garlon DB (better than Lahman), then it will automatically adjust ratings each season, automatically put players in the HoF, automatically assign REAL incoming players to their correct teams, automatically adjust league modifiers, and loads more stuff. Mogul by contrast forces you to keep playing at 1900 levels for everything, creates fake players for you to draft (not even giving you the option of importing the actual rookies to their actual teams), and if you don't attend the draft, drafts awful players for you. Mogul can't handle expansion, which OOTP does pretty well, and has none of the depth of OOTP. There is no DFAing of players, you just get rid of them. There is no scouting or coaching system, no Negro Leaguers, Japanese leaguers, or anybody besides MLB players. Mogul is worthless next to OOTP once you actually explore all the depth of OOTP.

1. Were you using PBP each game? Cause if you're not good at PBP your players will not be amazing. Also, players progress differently in the game sometimes. If you simulated Pedro's career 100 times, do you think he would be stellar each time?

2. Who says it can't happen? Weirder things have happened in life.

3. Exactly my point! I don't want to put lots of time into a sim game! I want to be able to play right out of the box with no learning curve and with real players! I want a game where everything is already set up for me.

4. I wouldn't know what those "extra few buttons" were or where to find them.

5. What? If you set historical rookies "ON" in the main menu before you start the league, then you will have rookies sent up to the draft when they were in the draft or first signed a professional contract. Of course, if you stray too far away: let's say 2040, then, realistically, players from 2007 would not be playing!

6. Go on the Sports Mogul Forums and look at all the explanations on how to import old players (Example: The Bambino for the 2007 Yankees). It is actually really simple. You can also create a player by cloning an existing player and changing up their stats and name and stuff.

7. What? In my game which I simmed from 1901 thru 2008, the all-time HR champ for a career has 660 (Eddie Mathews), which would never happen for players in the early 1900's (before Ruth).

8. Read comment #5!

9. Not horrible players. The AI drafts to fill holes in your minors. If you have all 1B, and there is a good 1B in the draft and a decent 2B, who would you draft?

10. I agree 100%, but OOTP has problems, too.

11.Because history shows that before Jackie Robinson, no players from the Negro Leagues played in the MLB! If they didn't actually play why should they be included? Same for Japanese players.

12. It is an MLB sim, for fans of MLB. I don't know who else would be on a major league roster? Geez, next you'll be complaining that BBM doesn't have Eddie Gaedel.

The main issue with OOTP is the fact that you need to download, unzip, and play around with the computer to get real players. There is also a learning curve, which BBM doesn't have.

So in closing,
If you're a computer whiz with a lot of free time on your hands- get OOTP.

If you have a computer, know how to turn it on, and like the American Pastime and all of its glorious history- then get BBM08.

By the way, if anyone doesn't already know
BBM08= Baseball Mogul 2008
OOTP= oUT oF tHE pARK bASEBALL

1. Were you using PBP each game? Cause if you're not good at PBP your players will not be amazing. Also, players progress differently in the game sometimes. If you simulated Pedro's career 100 times, do you think he would be stellar each time?

Nope. I never do PBP. I want a sim game, not an arcade one.

2. Who says it can't happen? Weirder things have happened in life.

Not in baseball. Would a team ever lose EVERY SINGLE GAME of the year in the modern era?

3. Exactly my point! I don't want to put lots of time into a sim game! I want to be able to play right out of the box with no learning curve and with real players! I want a game where everything is already set up for me.

Here's how easy it is to get the 2007 pro baseball rosters (everything, minors and all, all real guys): 1. Download the file from ootpmodsquad.com. 2. Unzip it into your saved games folder. 3. Click "Load Saved Game". 4. Select the correct file. 5. Play.

4. I wouldn't know what those "extra few buttons" were or where to find them.

They're easy to find. When you start a league, just hit "Import Historical League". If you have the Lahman (or Arod/Garlon) DB downloaded, it'll prompt you to do everything.

5. What? If you set historical rookies "ON" in the main menu before you start the league, then you will have rookies sent up to the draft when they were in the draft or first signed a professional contract. Of course, if you stray too far away: let's say 2040, then, realistically, players from 2007 would not be playing!

See, I couldn't find this. Mogul isn't so user-friendly after all.

6. Go on the Sports Mogul Forums and look at all the explanations on how to import old players (Example: The Bambino for the 2007 Yankees). It is actually really simple. You can also create a player by cloning an existing player and changing up their stats and name and stuff.

You can do the same in OOTP, just as easily, without having to look up how on the internet.

7. What? In my game which I simmed from 1901 thru 2008, the all-time HR champ for a career has 660 (Eddie Mathews), which would never happen for players in the early 1900's (before Ruth).

When I did that, the single-season record was 31, by Babe Ruth. Maybe I'm missing something.

9. Not horrible players. The AI drafts to fill holes in your minors. If you have all 1B, and there is a good 1B in the draft and a decent 2B, who would you draft?

I'd take the decent 2B. But if you had a choice between a decent 2B and a horrible 3B, if you needed a player at both spots, which one would you take?

10. I agree 100%, but OOTP has problems, too.

OK, fair enough.

11.Because history shows that before Jackie Robinson, no players from the Negro Leagues played in the MLB! If they didn't actually play why should they be included? Same for Japanese players.

What if you wanted to see what happened if they had been allowed to play?

12. It is an MLB sim, for fans of MLB. I don't know who else would be on a major league roster? Geez, next you'll be complaining that BBM doesn't have Eddie Gaedel.

OOTP doesn't have Eddie Gaedel either. Well, some DBs do, but most full DBs don't. OOTP is a baseball sim, for fans of baseball, not just MLB. You can play literally any league in the world.

The main issue with OOTP is the fact that you need to download, unzip, and play around with the computer to get real players. There is also a learning curve, which BBM doesn't have.

Not all that much. See #3.

So in closing,
If you're a computer whiz with a lot of free time on your hands- get OOTP.

Actually, if you like the game of baseball, as it is played all around the world, and want something that can give you all the intricacies of professional baseball, get OOTP.

If you have a computer, know how to turn it on, and like the American Pastime and all of its glorious history- then get BBM08.

If you don't have 35 bucks to spend, but want a baseball sim, get BBM08.

By the way, if anyone doesn't already know
BBM08= Baseball Mogul 2008
OOTP= oUT oF tHE pARK bASEBALL

Comments in bold.

EDIT: I think I see where the discrepancies came from. I was playing BBM07.

1. Were you using PBP each game? Cause if you're not good at PBP your players will not be amazing. Also, players progress differently in the game sometimes. If you simulated Pedro's career 100 times, do you think he would be stellar each time?

Nope. I never do PBP. I want a sim game, not an arcade one.

2. Who says it can't happen? Weirder things have happened in life.

Not in baseball. Would a team ever lose EVERY SINGLE GAME of the year in the modern era?-Well with all of the BBM seasons ever played, odds are it has happened to someone.
3. Exactly my point! I don't want to put lots of time into a sim game! I want to be able to play right out of the box with no learning curve and with real players! I want a game where everything is already set up for me.

Here's how easy it is to get the 2007 pro baseball rosters (everything, minors and all, all real guys): 1. Download the file from ootpmodsquad.com. 2. Unzip it into your saved games folder. 3. Click "Load Saved Game". 4. Select the correct file. 5. Play.-That's still not right out of the box.
4. I wouldn't know what those "extra few buttons" were or where to find them.

They're easy to find. When you start a league, just hit "Import Historical League". If you have the Lahman (or Arod/Garlon) DB downloaded, it'll prompt you to do everything.-Fine, you've got me there.
5. What? If you set historical rookies "ON" in the main menu before you start the league, then you will have rookies sent up to the draft when they were in the draft or first signed a professional contract. Of course, if you stray too far away: let's say 2040, then, realistically, players from 2007 would not be playing!

See, I couldn't find this. Mogul isn't so user-friendly after all.-I think it is actually automatically on. You would have to switch it off.
6. Go on the Sports Mogul Forums and look at all the explanations on how to import old players (Example: The Bambino for the 2007 Yankees). It is actually really simple. You can also create a player by cloning an existing player and changing up their stats and name and stuff.

You can do the same in OOTP, just as easily, without having to look up how on the internet.-Fine, you've got me there.
7. What? In my game which I simmed from 1901 thru 2008, the all-time HR champ for a career has 660 (Eddie Mathews), which would never happen for players in the early 1900's (before Ruth).

When I did that, the single-season record was 31, by Babe Ruth. Maybe I'm missing something.- What year did you play until?
9. Not horrible players. The AI drafts to fill holes in your minors. If you have all 1B, and there is a good 1B in the draft and a decent 2B, who would you draft?

I'd take the decent 2B. But if you had a choice between a decent 2B and a horrible 3B, if you needed a player at both spots, which one would you take?-BBM and I would both take the 2B.
10. I agree 100%, but OOTP has problems, too.

OK, fair enough.

11.Because history shows that before Jackie Robinson, no players from the Negro Leagues played in the MLB! If they didn't actually play why should they be included? Same for Japanese players.

What if you wanted to see what happened if they had been allowed to play?-Then buy OOTP!
12. It is an MLB sim, for fans of MLB. I don't know who else would be on a major league roster? Geez, next you'll be complaining that BBM doesn't have Eddie Gaedel.

OOTP doesn't have Eddie Gaedel either. Well, some DBs do, but most full DBs don't. OOTP is a baseball sim, for fans of baseball, not just MLB. You can play literally any league in the world.- 1. I was being sarcastic. 2.I am basically just a fan of MLB. I am not a fan of leagues I know nothing about.
The main issue with OOTP is the fact that you need to download, unzip, and play around with the computer to get real players. There is also a learning curve, which BBM doesn't have.

Not all that much. See #3.-I bolded the steps in 3 where you say to download,unzip, and click some buttons.
So in closing,
If you're a computer whiz with a lot of free time on your hands- get OOTP.

Actually, if you like the game of baseball, as it is played all around the world, and want something that can give you all the intricacies of professional baseball, get OOTP.

If you have a computer, know how to turn it on, and like the American Pastime and all of its glorious history- then get BBM08.

If you don't have 35 bucks to spend, but want a baseball sim, get BBM08.

By the way, if anyone doesn't already know
BBM08= Baseball Mogul 2008
OOTP= oUT oF tHE pARK bASEBALL

-In closing this time, which game would you sooner give to a 10-year-old who loves baseball but is not too computer-savvy? Or which game would you give to a 80-year-old with the same love for baseball and lack of computer knowledge?
I would say BBM08, which you can play with no learning curve, which OOTP has.
But to be fair, I will give my opinion on BBM's downsides
ASG and HRD not playable.
No WW.
No MiLB standings and full rosters.
No ability to take over an expansion team before the draft.
No expansion draft for teams you create.
No boxscores saved over the years. (Example: No-hitter in 2003 not viewable in 2004)

Last edited by Mr. Grission; 07-21-2007 at 09:37 AM.
Reason: bolding some lines

For a ten-year-old just getting to know the inner workings of baseball, I'd suggest BBM. For a serious baseball fan, I'd suggest OOTP.

My biggest problems with OOTP are:

Long time to sim, load FacePack, etc.
Doesn't come with DBs loaded
Some parts of historical replay can get annoying (e.g. teams make unlicensed trades, don't sign FAs, get stuck with 4 men on roster)
Takes some time to get acquainted with