Usability with upcoming Blackberry Storm

Anyone know if Toodledo will be usable with the soon to be released Blackberry Storm? I see where there is an iPhone version and the Storm is supposed to be Blackberry's similar offering to the iPhone. It will have a touch screen and more advanced browser.

*Your excuse of not having a Blackberry is getting more than a little thin. Of course you don't have a Storm - nobody does yet (bar beta units). Even so, you had mentioned previously that you found a BB SDK with a simulator. What's more, you are operating a business and you have a revenue generating model. Judging by BB market share alone, there is clearly a strong business case for BB support. It is very, very simple: GO BUY A BLACKBERRY.

*Blackberry doesn't currently have a "decent web browser" - and I'll go ahead and include Opera Mini in that condescending assessment - and you have no clue about the Storm. This uninformed comment plainly shows that you have not bothered to pay ANY attention at all to the smart phone market outside of your precious iPhone because there has been volumes written on these intrawebs about RIM's upcoming products and their functionality (including the web browser). Judging from the BB Bold alone, you should have some sense of what the minimal capabilities of later devices will be - that is, if you were paying any attention at all.

*From your reply, it is obvious to me that no development effort for Blackberry devices under way (or it has been abandoned) and, furthermore, that you have only disdain for the platform. You apparently have little intention to even bother. Your answer is essentially that you will wait for RIM devices to natively support (via the browser) the application you've built instead of the other way around. That is a pathetic, not to mention arrogant, answer from any software developer - and it certainly doesn't have any chance of beginning to leverage the power of the BB platform.

Sad, very sad. To think that you are so biased, short-sighted, and arrogant to completely ignore a large and passionate user base. Well, at least now I know your true intentions and to not bother continuing my hope for a Toodledo BB application any time in the foreseeable future.

I think that you have misinterpreted our position. We are certainly very interested in the Blackberry as a platform. We have the simulator and we have been investigating it and we hope to be able to support the Blackberry in the future.

The fact of the matter is that Toodledo has very limited resources. Since we have iPhones, we are personally motivated to make sure that Toodledo works on the iPhone. The iPhone happens to have a very good web browser, so this makes it easy.

We do not have anything against the Blackberry. We fully recognized that it has a large and passionate user base (as evidenced by your impassioned comments), and we know that getting Toodledo working on the BB would be a very good business move. We just have not yet had the resources to do this.

I am sorry that we have not been able to make Toodledo compatible with the Blackberry yet. I wish that we could offer more, but there simply isn't enough time to do everything that we want to do.

I should also point out that our API is very powerful and mature. It has already been used by a third party to make a very successful native iPhone app called Todo. It could definitely be used to make an awesome Blackberry application, so if there are any passionate BB developers out there who wants to make a little side business, feel free to use our API.

I would also recommend that anyone reading this post search the postings for Blackberry. There have been many posts about the blackberry that might be helpful in understanding Toodledo's position on the device.

For the record, I too am baffled (aside from the fact that you guys/gals use the iPhone) why you haven't made this a larger priority. Many of us live/sleep/eat with our blackberry devices and because of the limited enterprise support from other smart phones, we are limited to this device for the majority of our professional work.

With as big a market as BlackBerry reportedly is, do you mean to say nobody has made a decent BlackBerry To-Do App that improves on the BlackBerry factory-stock task list? What is it about Toodledo that makes it so much of a better alternative than what's available on the BlackBerry platform?

Also, as far as Enterprise support is concerned, many employers who issue BlackBerries have them locked down so thoroughly that you can't put anything on them or use any unauthorized apps, especially if they sync with company data. So is the idea that you'd be doing just your personal todoing through the Web with Toodledo?

At any rate, it doesn't seem like berating and insulting developers who have their own mission and priorities into supporting your platform is a very productive strategy. (Not that some Mac users haven't tried it in the past, I admit, and without even having the market share card to play!) Especially when there is such a large market of BlackBerry developers (or so we are told) who could hook into Toodledo's API and create a BlackBerry-native app, the way the Appigo folks have created an iPhone native app.

Let's face it, Web apps are a clunky, last-resort way to get to your data and I wouldn't expect a lot of Web services to keep killing themselves trying to be Web-accessible for every device. The bar has been raised, and the onus is on BlackBerry to put a decent Web browser on their devices. iPhone has one, Android will have one, it's not rocket-science anymore.

Blackberry holds 50%+ market share versus all other smart phones, so its a large piece of the pie.

The factory stock task list is ok, but for many of us that want to work with a GTD workflow or Toodledo feature set the task manager leaves a lot to be desired. The other benefit with Toodledo is that when you are at a desktop or laptop that may not be your home unit, you are automatically synchronized instantly. The task manager would only update on your device or when connect to you home/office computer.

What it is about Toodledo that makes it better...everything in short. The features help you focus on what matters most for what is currently at hand. If you are doing yard chores and outside stuff, you don't want to be reminded about "clean out basement storage". Also setting dates, goals, and priorities is important in deciding what to do when and how to respond if something comes up. You may be able to fiddle with the BB task manager to achieve this, but it would be using a 2X4 to hammer in a nail.

Enterprise support is a tough one, but I think what most of us are looking for is a Blackberry compatible website or an enhanced WAP version of the website. This would get around any enterprise lockdown conflicts. A client would be nice, but not necessary if we had a great web version, made for Blackberry.

I agree the berating and insulting is not necessary. Its not like the Pro users are paying $50 a month. Getting developers to make something to sit on top of Toodledo might be interesting, but
-How many Pro users are there?
-How much would people be willing to pay?
-What would be the cost to develop the client?

These are questions that I don't have the answer to. If I did, I might be willing to investigate developing the app.

I don't buy the web apps are clunky argument. I use a lot of web apps and I don't run into to too many problems that cannot get fixed with a simple email to the developers. I still use Toodledo on my blackberry browser, its just not as nice as it is on Camino on my Mac Book. We are not asking for compatibility with every device, just the one with the most market share.

Toodledo runs just as well as most other Web apps on my BB Curve - both on the BB Browser and especially on Opera Mini. If some are looking for a specific, separate Toodledo application for BB's, that's something I don't fully understand. Toodledo is a Web application - there is no client-side software for Windows or Macs. As I mentioned, the mobile site works fine on my Curve.

RIM has only recently opened up its API a little - historically it has kept BB as closed to 3rd party developers as any platform I have seen, rivaling even the Symbian platforms. How many task management applications are there that actually work on RIM devices? One - ToDoMatrix from RexWireless - and that is a far cry from the many excellent Windows Mobile and Palm PIM/ToDo programs available.

Posting in the Toodledo forum with demands that they create your own little pet application is pretty selfish, don't you think? Oh, of course you wouldn't think that, would you?

The temerity of folks who think that developers OWE them whatever they personally desire never ceases to amaze me!

While I may have misinterpreted Toodledo's position to a point, I still don't buy the argument that resources are the primary limitation. I run two businesses, so I know well the meaning of limited resources - and I also know that where there's a will, there's a way: I see no real will.

To the point about the API, well, I'm no developer. Yet, in my sheer frustration over the lack of a great To Do app for the BB, I find myself trying to figure out how in the WORLD I can find the time to teach myself to code and then develop such an app. I don't pretend to know RIM's stance on 3rd party developers.

Temerity? Maybe. Entitlement? Hardly. I never said - or even thought - that I believe anyone owes me anything. I will pay for the right app - just as I paid for Toodledo. Yes, of course there are a variety of other task- and list-apps out there (including a variety of free ones) but none that really fit the bill. (I'm also lobbying some of them to enhance development of their apps.) While I would, personally, love to see a a Toodledo BB app, my plea was not for an entirely selfish pet project: I believe that I was speaking for a host of other BB users who simply haven't taken the time to look at the entirety of the responses here to discern the real status - that there is no progress and no actual plan, just a vapid, tenuous "interest." I am also looking at the overall success of ToodleDo - if their resources are so limited, then capturing a broader user base can only help. It appears to be a relatively straightforward Win-Win proposition. My most pointed remarks were regarding the empty rationale behind the lack of progress and calling it the way I see it. In viewing the totality of this situation, I merely let my frustration and zeal get the best of me and overshadow a reasonable, constructive argument - for that I apologize. Now you can get off your own high horses with your remarks about my comments.

Regarding the Slim version working on Opera Mini, well it does to a point. I haven't taken the time to document all the various things that DON'T work (is it really up to me?). Some of those things that don't work are real killers. The plain HTML version in the BB Browser is so slow and clunky that I can't honestly be bothered - 6 other things will have happened around me before I finish dealing with the first. I entirely agree with Jeremy above (and have previously written something very similar in a different thread):

...I think what most of us are looking for is a Blackberry compatible website or an enhanced WAP version of the website. This would get around any enterprise lockdown conflicts. A client would be nice, but not necessary if we had a great web version, made for Blackberry.

The only thing I would add to that is: some kind of offline sync/accessibility would be huge!

The BlackBerry support is also a big issue for me. This is not a selfish request at all; it is one of the important features in selecting the product for compatibility issues for about 50% of the mobile population.

The GTD support and having the data available in SaaS is critical, but next in line for me is readable access to my Blackberry since I will need to use it when I am not near a PC.

I agree that the very least would be a web-based interface that is designed for the Blackberry and most preference for a native application that could sync.

This really isn't too much to ask and, in my opinion, should be at the top of the priority list.

I agree--I just got a blackberry and perhaps foolishly assumed that I'd be able to use my toodledoo list, which I consult many, many times a day; but it's unusable on my blackberry. I would get a pro subscription if I could access my list and sync.

ToodledoBB is an application being built specifically for Blackberrys to Sync with Toodledo.com. When installed on your Blackberry, the app will allow you to stay in sync with your account on Toodledo.com.

If you are interested in staying in the loop on ToodledoBB, you should go to http://www.toodledobb.com/ , sign up for the newsletter, and opt-in for the beta.