Should we play 19 holes at Eastern Avenue Park for the Rumble?

Telemark had 43 pros? I'm not certain, but that's a pretty established tournament isn't it? If it is, considering that there aren't too many other tournaments competing with it that weekend, why was the turnout low? (43 is low for an A Tier, no?) I'm not saying it's because of that only, there's lots of factors, maybe that's one of 'em.

So there are people that don't care whether or not they have natural tees, otherwise we wouldn't be debating the issue. It's a good thing.

As far as 4 pages....c'mon, not even 4 posts prior to this debate.

And I'm sure there's a handful of A-Tiers that use courses that aren't temporary that don't have good tees. But there's more that don't. And they are better attended tournaments, and I want to see the RC Rumble be one of those.

I'm not speaking/debating just for the sake of "my specifications". I've been going to A-C tiers since 2000, and whether you like it or not, the standards have risen, just in that short period of time. GPO is a good example. Look at turnout decline between 2000 and now, and how it went from A tier to B tier. Sure there's other factors, but one is definately other competing tournaments with better courses. They (Peoria) still host a major, for women, (i.e. the courses aren't that bad) but not good enough to draw the NT type crowd that it used to.

Flip side of that is that there are tournaments that have crete that have declined in attendance--Mid-America Open, for example. It's not because of natural tees, it's because the courses (well, one of them) kinda sucks. It is a very old design. No big deal, but not A-Tier material anymore.

I'm rambling now, my only point is that course/tournament standards have changed, not only because of tees, but course design as well. I'm not debating one side or another because of what I personally want to play at RC Rumble, I just want this tournament to be well accepted. I want people to have a good time playing in the QC, and for them to be sure and mark their calendar to come back. All of us here will, it's our A-Tier.

I don't think attendance has much to do with the courses, maybe a little. The Peoria thing was because of the rating based blunder they had back a couple of years ago. Gold, Silver and Bronze all made the same money and this did not make the open division real happy.
The larger a tournament gets sometimes the smaller the turn out, example, Columbia. The PDGA pushed for an "A" tier and made them move weekends. The first two years as an "A" was in early May and that's is Missouri's rainy season. We were only able to play part of the back course due to flooding. Now they have went back to "B" but have lost their hold on the July weekend.
If you have the right shoes, no surface really should stop you from playing. You will find most of the courses that are natural tees are the big cool ones. Granted they are temp courses or expanded smaller courses. Some parks only allow the course to be laid out for tournament play.
You need to invent a mobile hard tacky surface for tee pads that are only $10 apiece and not the rubber Fly 18 stuff (these turn into slip and slide pads for little children when it rains).
My fingers hurt I have to stop now.

Concrete is pretty standard these days....I'm just saying if you put them on natural tees at whack distances, players will be scratching their heads saying, "why didn't we play from the concrete, with signage, and proper distances?"

I'm just offering criticism of your criticism, Jay. And then....you have the audacity to criticize my criticism of your criticism. Who's doing who wrong?

Besides, Chad asked the question...I'm just havin' fun with it. To me...it doesn't really matter all that much, cuz I think the players should be happy with what is offered. (Hell, THEY'RE not throwin' the tournament.)

The idea that makes the MOST sense to me is: All or none. But, that being said...there are holes that would be a lot more fun, if changed. It just doesn't make all that much sense to do so. The ONLY pool that will deal with any of this heartache will be the Intermediate/Master/etc. But, this should/will be remedied by ONE round from the concrete...ONE round from the grass (which could POSSIBLY be concrete by then, who knows). The Advanced pool will just have to deal with one round, either from the longs or shorts, and it sounded like Chad was leaning toward the short.