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Originally posted by ZushakonObviously macroing will not be an issue this time around as all the reasons people macroed have been dealt with accordingly.

To all the people who ignored my thread when I posted it....

You were wrong, and I called it dead on.

Macroing has turned out to be one of the biggest issues in DFUW. If you believed Tasos, you got duped once again. Once the NDA is lifted we can provide the details.

For now: take a look at all the idiots in this thread who doubted me.

What exaclty is the issue? You can now become PvP viable in no time without macroing. The things being macroed can be raised through normal play in a few days. The "need" is far less than in DF1. Please explain how macroing is "one of the biggest issues" in a BETA that gets routinely wiped and is still evolving? You didnt honestly think people wouldnt be macroing did you? Macros have always been a part of MMO gaming, like it or not.

[mod edit]

Umm... How long has it been since the last wipe and how many hours a day are the servers up? [mod edit]

Its simple math! Youre saying people can max every stat in a "few days" via macro. There's only 24 hours in a day and lets assume the servers are up 22. (66-88 hours) Plus, you hardly need every stat to be viable, bringing the total hours required even lower. Your rant holds NO weight!

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Macroing is only an issue if you enjopy playing the game legit. Because if you do play legit youll get stomped by those who cheated.

This is going to be a major turnoff for a lot of people.

I just dont understand why people cant just play the game as intended, if they wanted to make a game where everyone had everything after character creation they would...so macroing clearly isnt what they wanted.

Either way if they really do allow it like in 1.0 they can expect a low pop game full of cheaters just like 1.0 was. I know im not sticking around this time if they allow it, theres no point to play unless you cheat like everyone else then.

Saddest part of this all is there seems to be a rather decent sized part of the community, who is also more vocal than any other segment, that really....REALLY...wants AV the allow them to cheat. Its really pathetic.

Oh and just so were clear here, to those not familair with darkfall terminology...macroing is botting. They bot their skills up in a safe area until maxed out. They call it macroing because you use a macro to do it, however its the same effect as botting in a themepark. Only in this game you can use that advantage to take loot ect, so the results often very detrimental to new players and people who enjoy playing legit.

Not sure who in their right mind would want to play a FFA full loot game where most of the other players are months ahead after a week...talk about completely unfun pvp.

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Macroing is only an issue if you enjopy playing the game legit. Because if you do play legit youll get stomped by those who cheated.

This is going to be a major turnoff for a lot of people.

Unlike the gap in DF1, the gap between noob and being competitve can be bridged in a matter of weeks without macros. So after the first month, all the QQing about macros isnt going to make much difference with the gains, boosters and role system balancing the field.

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Macroing is only an issue if you enjopy playing the game legit. Because if you do play legit youll get stomped by those who cheated.

This is going to be a major turnoff for a lot of people.

Unlike the gap in DF1, the gap between noob and being competitve can be bridged in a matter of weeks without macros. So after the first month, all the QQing about macros isnt going to make much difference with the gains, boosters and role system balancing the field.

IT IS NOTHING LIKE DF1.

BTW...Big difference between a bot and a macro.

You seem rather misinformed on DFUW.

Doesnt matter, no one wants to play a game where everyone cheats. No new player who wants to play legit will want to play a game like this where everyone else cheats to get ahead.

And your mistaken if you think youll be getting maxed out in a few weeks. People are going to macro up those stats, which are a big factor...and there still remains a decent amount of progression in that.

There is no difference than using a computer program to level up skills vs using a computer program to level up levels. Both are the same, no levels in this game. If this were a themepark it would be called botting because its a bit more complex than using macros in darkfall...the effect is the same however. Calling it macroing is more of a way to make it seem alright, which is pathetic that part of the community is hell bent on making it seem ok with their "legalize macroing" campaign.

If playing a game with progression is so painfull for you that you MUST bot to progress you really must get a new gaming hobby, mmorpgs are not for you buddy.

Its easy to attack the poster btw, ive been in 1.0 since the start and am in 2.0 now so i know exactly why your defending macroing skills up. Its horrible that this segment of the DF community is now advertising this on a 3rd party site...

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Macroing is only an issue if you enjopy playing the game legit. Because if you do play legit youll get stomped by those who cheated.

This is going to be a major turnoff for a lot of people.

Unlike the gap in DF1, the gap between noob and being competitve can be bridged in a matter of weeks without macros. So after the first month, all the QQing about macros isnt going to make much difference with the gains, boosters and role system balancing the field.

IT IS NOTHING LIKE DF1.

BTW...Big difference between a bot and a macro.

You seem rather misinformed on DFUW.

Doesnt matter, no one wants to play a game where everyone cheats. No new player who wants to play legit will

Its easy to attack the poster btw, ive been in 1.0 since the start and am in 2.0 now so i know exactly why your defending macroing skills up. Its horrible that this segment of the DF community is now advertising this on a 3rd party site...

So it doesnt matter?

Are you playing a different Beta than the rest of us? Your statement regarding the current progression is laughable.

You should know certain players have already hit "X" stat level, know when the server wiped and know how many hours a day the servers up. Macroing doesn't bend time. There's a finite number of possible gaming hours available regardless if one macros or not.

All stats and combat skills can be macroed to 100 using any of the above 3. Any of the above 3 is a 'macro' situation where the player can use a gaming keyboard or macro program to gain skill while afk.

The time it takes max skills and stats with casual play (1-2 hours a day) will be months, versus several days for those who macro.

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The solution to this whole mess is a diminshing return system where the player recieves less gains over time for hitting the same target over and over. This effectively stops continual gains off of players, mounts, and bugged mobs.

If this is not implemented, we will see end game characters stomping the crap out of everyone at the end of the first two weeks of release.

All stats and combat skills can be macroed to 100 using any of the above 3. Any of the above 3 is a 'macro' situation where the player can use a gaming keyboard or macro program to gain skill while afk.

The time it takes max skills and stats with casual play (1-2 hours a day) will be months, versus several days for those who macro.

-----

The solution to this whole mess is a diminshing return system where the player recieves less gains over time for hitting the same target over and over. This effectively stops continual gains off of players, mounts, and bugged mobs.

If this is not implemented, we will see end game characters stomping the crap out of everyone at the end of the first two weeks of release.

If you can't see this is a major issue, you have problems.

If you can only contribute 1-2 hours a day to DF perhaps you need to find another game , stick to crafting or macro. Of course you'll be behind most of the players base, macroing aside. You'll accomplish almost nothing in 1 hour unless you stay in the safe zones. You'll have to group, regear, travel and account for any PvP. (repeat if you lose) You can easily become competitive in weeks given 3 hours a day, unlike many months in DF1.

By your own admission you state people can max skill and stats in "several days for those who macro." This would have taken months in DF1 and is easily attainable without macro. As I've stated numerous times, the servers have only been up so long and there's only so many hours those people could have macro'd.

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If you can only contribute 1-2 hours a day to DF perhaps you need to find another game , stick to crafting or macro.

^^^^^ Can everyone else see how moronic this approach is to making a successful game?

Wow ...grasping at straws now?

Darkfall is a competitive progression based PVP centric MMO. What the hell to you expect? Should they just get rid of progression all together? Because your latest "arguement'" has NOTHING to do with macroing.

If you put in 7 hours a week and I put in 20, guess what? My character will be futher along, just like any other progession based MMO.

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If you can only contribute 1-2 hours a day to DF perhaps you need to find another game , stick to crafting or macro.

^^^^^ Can everyone else see how moronic this approach is to making a successful game?

It is a little moronic - who has that much time to play games like this?

Agreed. A lot of us don't have time to "maintain" their character in a game. If you're making an adult game you should cater to adults, agreed whole-heartedly.

Haha, Two hours a day in a game is not enough?

Most players would have to sell their soul to play more than that, if they had a job or relationship. No wonder people called DF1 players unemploid basement-dwellers. If it got the grind similar to DF1 or players can`t participate with less than 3 hours a day, no coding can save this game.

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The problem with darkfall is it took them forever and a day to get that game released, YEARS,.

And it was sadly behind the MMO curve by like 3 years, but hey, Late is better then never.

its never the players fault for using 3rd party programs, the theme now for developers is to make a game where players dont NEED to do it,. but lots still will,. just the way it is..

Darkfall devs never gave up on DF1 an released a 3year late game anyways,. Its like they have heart, like a fighter in a cage, so I think they will make something good one day,.

Macroing potential is not something that kills a game like DF.The grind alone and the gap in DF 1.0 is what killed the game. Macroing was just an excuse to leave sooner since players from day EU day 1 were hardcore enough to max out their characters with or without macroing. The grind was also infinit.

BTW, macroing is in. Thats confirmed. Self heal, transfers and most self buffs is what you're gonna spam before you start playing. While doing these, you'd probably want to go watch tv or movies. This is the truh unless they change something before release.

With that being said, the grind is still lower than ever. Nothing like it used to be. Some players already have some of their active skills at 100 and i heard one player who has 150 dex or something. Thats less than a month and also note that the DF server got wiped multple times. 3-4 times so far.

Also, the fact that you cant be a super hybrid and you must make specific decision for your stats distribution, hp mana stam and class means that the grind is even more lower than ever.

TL DR: I woudlnt worry about the macroers. If you like to grind since you enjoy it, dont do it. The grind is so fast that you will only ruin your own playstyle if you do it. Go play runescape if you want a grind for ever.

If you can only contribute 1-2 hours a day to DF perhaps you need to find another game , stick to crafting or macro.

^^^^^ Can everyone else see how moronic this approach is to making a successful game?

It is a little moronic - who has that much time to play games like this?

Agreed. A lot of us don't have time to "maintain" their character in a game. If you're making an adult game you should cater to adults, agreed whole-heartedly.

Haha, Two hours a day in a game is not enough?

Most players would have to sell their soul to play more than that, if they had a job or relationship. No wonder people called DF1 players unemploid basement-dwellers. If it got the grind similar to DF1 or players can`t participate with less than 3 hours a day, no coding can save this game.

no, 2 hours a day is nothing,. Not sure why you think your own life exp is "most players". common mistake made by the human mind, "thinking its the center of the universe"

well I got news for you, "most players" play much more then 2 hours a day,. like who are you kidding?

Path of exile has a one week race event right now, and there is a lot of people playing 40-50 hours non stop,. and a lot more doing 24 hours,. A handfull are streaming the whole thing,. 1 guy is doing 100 hours no sleep,. its crazy,

If you can only contribute 1-2 hours a day to DF perhaps you need to find another game , stick to crafting or macro.

^^^^^ Can everyone else see how moronic this approach is to making a successful game?

It is a little moronic - who has that much time to play games like this?

Agreed. A lot of us don't have time to "maintain" their character in a game. If you're making an adult game you should cater to adults, agreed whole-heartedly.

Haha, Two hours a day in a game is not enough?

Most players would have to sell their soul to play more than that, if they had a job or relationship. No wonder people called DF1 players unemploid basement-dwellers. If it got the grind similar to DF1 or players can`t participate with less than 3 hours a day, no coding can save this game.

no, 2 hours a day is nothing,. Not sure why you think your own life exp is "most players". common mistake made by the human mind, "thinking its the center of the universe"

well I got news for you, "most players" play much more then 2 hours a day,. like who are you kidding?

Path of exile has a one week race event right now, and there is a lot of people playing 40-50 hours non stop,. and a lot more doing 24 hours,. A handfull are streaming the whole thing,. 1 guy is doing 100 hours no sleep,. its crazy,

just saying,.

Didn't you do pretty much the same thing?

You gave anecdoctal evidence of why your experience is correct and theirs is wrong.

There is no way to verify the amount that "most players" spend in game. Polls from the forums only measure those who visit the forums... which for most MMOs is usually a minority of the player-base. That would be even more true for DarkFall being in it's Beta - non-released state.

So, the only thing any of us can say with certainty is that we have no idea. We can then state how we play, how friends of ours play, etc. Thank-you for your opinion on the matter and we will make note of your personal experience... just like everyone else.

If you can only contribute 1-2 hours a day to DF perhaps you need to find another game , stick to crafting or macro.

^^^^^ Can everyone else see how moronic this approach is to making a successful game?

It is a little moronic - who has that much time to play games like this?

Agreed. A lot of us don't have time to "maintain" their character in a game. If you're making an adult game you should cater to adults, agreed whole-heartedly.

Haha, Two hours a day in a game is not enough?

Most players would have to sell their soul to play more than that, if they had a job or relationship. No wonder people called DF1 players unemploid basement-dwellers. If it got the grind similar to DF1 or players can`t participate with less than 3 hours a day, no coding can save this game.

no, 2 hours a day is nothing,. Not sure why you think your own life exp is "most players". common mistake made by the human mind, "thinking its the center of the universe"

well I got news for you, "most players" play much more then 2 hours a day,. like who are you kidding?

Path of exile has a one week race event right now, and there is a lot of people playing 40-50 hours non stop,. and a lot more doing 24 hours,. A handfull are streaming the whole thing,. 1 guy is doing 100 hours no sleep,. its crazy,

just saying,.

Didn't you do pretty much the same thing?

You gave anecdoctal evidence of why your experience is correct and theirs is wrong.

There is no way to verify the amount that "most players" spend in game. Polls from the forums only measure those who visit the forums... which for most MMOs is usually a minority of the player-base. That would be even more true for DarkFall being in it's Beta - non-released state.

So, the only thing any of us can say with certainty is that we have no idea. We can then state how we play, how friends of ours play, etc. Thank-you for your opinion on the matter and we will make note of your personal experience... just like everyone else.

No, I was careful with my words, I said "much more" its an unknown number.

I based my opinion off what I have seen over the years, not the amount that " I play "

but the point here is, He said no game coding can save a game if the average player cant keep up with only 2 hours a day.

If you can only contribute 1-2 hours a day to DF perhaps you need to find another game , stick to crafting or macro.

^^^^^ Can everyone else see how moronic this approach is to making a successful game?

It is a little moronic - who has that much time to play games like this?

Agreed. A lot of us don't have time to "maintain" their character in a game. If you're making an adult game you should cater to adults, agreed whole-heartedly.

Haha, Two hours a day in a game is not enough?

Most players would have to sell their soul to play more than that, if they had a job or relationship. No wonder people called DF1 players unemploid basement-dwellers. If it got the grind similar to DF1 or players can`t participate with less than 3 hours a day, no coding can save this game.

no, 2 hours a day is nothing,. Not sure why you think your own life exp is "most players". common mistake made by the human mind, "thinking its the center of the universe"

well I got news for you, "most players" play much more then 2 hours a day,. like who are you kidding?

Path of exile has a one week race event right now, and there is a lot of people playing 40-50 hours non stop,. and a lot more doing 24 hours,. A handfull are streaming the whole thing,. 1 guy is doing 100 hours no sleep,. its crazy,

just saying,.

Didn't you do pretty much the same thing?

You gave anecdoctal evidence of why your experience is correct and theirs is wrong.

There is no way to verify the amount that "most players" spend in game. Polls from the forums only measure those who visit the forums... which for most MMOs is usually a minority of the player-base. That would be even more true for DarkFall being in it's Beta - non-released state.

So, the only thing any of us can say with certainty is that we have no idea. We can then state how we play, how friends of ours play, etc. Thank-you for your opinion on the matter and we will make note of your personal experience... just like everyone else.

No, I was careful with my words, I said "much more" its an unknown number.

I based my opinion off what I have seen over the years, not the amount that " I play "

but the point here is, He said no game coding can save a game if the average player cant keep up with only 2 hours a day.

2 hours is nothing,. what a pointless argument..

This entire chain of posts misses what use to be the main point of mmorpgs. This thread of posts im quoting assumes the ONLY thing to do in game occurs at max level, i used the word level because thats how these people act, like you need to hit 80 for the game to start.

Then the assumption is made that you cant do anything and therefore you need to hit max fast, which is why anyone who did it either macroed (botted) or has no life.

Yet you all cant even fathom the thought that people (use to and still do) play games for entertainment, not concerned with how quickly they can get to endgame.

I maxed my 1.0 character, it took about 2 years to do it, and i had a life all the way through. I enjoyed the game a few hours at a time, typically with sunday as me nerdrage grind day.

1.0 would have been 100 times more fun had the FPS community not infested its ranked and macroed up 2 years woth of skills in a month, i would have had actual pvp thought my play. I still enjoyed the game though, yeah i know im in a minority here, but that was how the game was intended to be played.

You shouldnt be required to play any amount of time because the goal of the game shouldnt be to race to the end as fast as humanly possible, it would make mmorpgs boring...which is probably why most people are so bored playing their games (yet cant think of anything else to do with their time its sad i know)

People like me do exist. It use to be the only type of people who played mmorpgs prior to 2004 when wow told everyone they need to race to endgame because the game prior to it is shit and the only good thing to do is hit max level and get on that hampsterwheel of instanced pvp and raids.

I really wish people would go back to playing the game for enjoyment and not attempting to race to the end, games were much more fun back then, and the community was so much more enjoyable, since the only goal wasnt to shit on other players and beat your chest like something was actually accomplished.

But yeah, this assumption you have to bot, its self fufilling, others see it, not doing it then puts legit payers at a huge disadvantage, they end up leaving, potential players stay away, and were left with the same boring 1.0 community who chased away the players in 1.0, used the same excuse that it was the grind and they had to bot ect.

I know this is a really tired comment, but if you feel the need to bot to enjoy the game...please...for gods sake, please go find another game to play, rather than drag down the only full loot pvp sandbox on the market again. Really you guys would be much happier in another game with no progression and super fair pvp based only on player skill.. They exist. Please find them.

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Originally posted by psykobilly

Quote from latest interview:

" To give one example, in the first Darkfall, the skills that where macroed quite a lot where movement skills like run sprint and swim because of the benefits they provided to relevant passive skills. In Unholy Wars this will not be the case as movement skills can no longer be leveled up."

Ok first of all... you didn't 'macro' sprint or swim you just hit numlock and swam into a wall. That is not a macro. You didn't do it to level up swimming, you did it to raise stats. The guy didn't mention if these activities will have an impact on stats - if they do then expect to see afk swimmers. If they don't then expect to see afk melee macros to raise stats, or whatever function raises stats.

He also mentioned heal self and transfers are in, and I assume some buffs are in - all of these spells are easily macroed.

The macro question was totally dodged and the obvious answer is that, yes, people will macro their spells and stats just like in DF1.

Be prepared to get your macro on or fall behind.

I guess you could be right... unless you can't comprehend the English language. Many people in this world can't, that's fine.

He states, explicitly, in that quote that movement skills can no longer be leveled to gain passive bonusus.

Using a bit of knowledge of the game system, one should come to the conclusion that passive bonuses means attribute gains. This must be true, because there is no other bonus gained other than the actually movement skill gain itself.

Ultimately, there is macro'ing in every single game out there. Whether it's a simple key macro or an elaborate macro script that performs the actions of what you would see in a bot, it is always going to be present in the game. People are just lazy, or really smart.. depending on how you look at it.