Schilling Being Schilling, i.e., Ignorant, Simplistic & Wrong

I just always thought it was very simple: If you did something and someone asks you if you did it and you didn't do it, you say no. Any other answer than no is some form of yes, isn't it?

It doesn't surprise me to hear Schilling, a Bush-backing Republican, parrot the wingnuts' mantra that if you are innocent, you shouldn't mind having your house searched, phone tapped, mail opened, web activities tracked, urine tested, being filmed by cameras throughout your town, etc., etc. (How odd, then, that the current group of conservatives pushing this crap are without question the most secretive government in American history, refusing to obey even the most simple laws designed to foster transparency in government.)

I can't believe Schilling doesn't realize there are myriad instances in which a lawyer would advise his client not to answer a certain question, even if the charges against that client are totally inaccurate.

More blather:

Jose Canseco admitted he cheated his entire career. Everything he ever did should be wiped clean. I think his MVP should go back and should go to the runner-up. ... The year [Rafael Palmeiro] he tested positive, nothing he did that year should count, which I think would take away 3,000 hits for him.

You hear this kind of thing every so often -- that known rule breakers should have their achievements erased from the record books -- though you usually hear it from 10-year-old kids. That's because it's a childish, uninformed opinion. (And P.S. Palmeiro did not get 3,000 hits in the year he tested positive.)

Curt's great idea is this: everything Canseco ever did should be wiped from baseball history. Naturally, that would involve adjusting the career records of every single pitcher who ever faced Canseco in the 1,887 games in which he played. Jose went 0-for-3 with 1 strikeout against Schilling, so even Curt would have his career stats changed.

Canseco's other PAs against Schilling were a grounder to second (Rene Gonzalez) and a grounder to short (Cal Ripken), so those two Baltimore infielders would have to lose one assist each from their career fielding records -- and first basemen Ron Kittle and David Segui each would need one putout deducted from their stats.

We would have to do that for every single one of Canseco's 8,129 plate appearances.

What about Canseco's play in the field? Should the fly balls that he caught, assists he made, errors he committed be credited to another fielder? (Or do they simply vanish, leaving sizable holes in nearly 2,000 box scores?) If Canseco's fielding career is erased -- as Schilling suggests -- then the records of every opposing batter who hit a ball to Canseco would have to have his stats changed. Every single pitcher on all of Canseco's teams would have to have his pitching line changed.

To truly remove all traces of Canseco from baseball history, the results of all of those 1,887 games would have to be declared void. This would forever alter many pennant races, as well as one league division series, three league championship series and four World Series. And two All-Star games.

And what do we do with the players involved in trades with Canseco? Do they count? In December 1994, the Red Sox traded Otis Nixon and Luis Ortiz to Texas for Canseco. In Schilling's world, were those players traded for nothing? Can their respective Rangers careers even "exist"?

And naturally, there is the issue of not knowing who cheated when. The national media focuses on Barry Bonds as if (a) he has been found guilty of steroid use and (b) he is the only player in MLB that has done steroids. Both of these statements are completely false. It is beyond question that Canseco had at least one PA against a pitcher who used steroids. He likely hit a ball that was fielded by a player using steroids.

Also -- why doesn't Schilling lobby for the careers of those players who have actually been found to have used steroids to be wiped from baseball history?

When asked why he wasn't so outspoken at a 2005 congressional hearing, he said:

When you're sitting in front of Congress and you're under oath, you'd better be damn sure if you're going to mention a name that you are 100 percent guaranteed sure somebody did something.

(Whereas when you're talking to Bob Costas, it's a-OK to let the BS fly.) But these players who have been suspended are clearly guilty. Why not zap them from the Baseball Encyclopedia?

Jason Giambi has admitted he used steroids. Why is Schilling so quiet about him? Why does Schilling talk only about the media-approved steroid scapegoats and not the actual players who have tested positive or have admitted using steroids?

40 comments:

In all fairness I dont care......Who cheated ,when or how they did it....

Baseball dropped the ball on this along time ago. Giambi admits to doing steroids no one cares , Sheffield didn't stick anythin in his butt, no one cares.....Bonds has a size 12 head , no one cares......

Fans still continue to go out to the ballpark in record numbers.......and still no one cares........I don't want to know that all the sports I watch is actually bullshit, which it is turning out to be .......

They are all a bunch of self serving arrogant assholes.........athletes that is....They don't care about us or what we think..never have , never will......

Curt maybe an asshole, But every player should be pissed about Bonds, Giambi, Sheff, etc.....

But they are not they just collect their paychecks and go home......Because they don't care.....

Some good points here, Redsock, but a lot of this post is a bit much for me. You're coming back with some conclusions here that aren't any more logical or rational than what Curt had to say. All respect for your fine blog and writing, but Curt says something extreme about Canseco, and it sends you off in this ripple effect direction that sounds like a rant to me. Exploring the implications of removomg Canseco's whole existence from baseball history is kind of an ad absurdum exercise, albeit a very well-informed one. I mean, what about the skin cells Canseco shed still floating around our ballparks?

The fact is: however many other folks have taken steroids, none of them is breaking the home run record this year. That's most of the reason Bonds is getting this attention. The rest of it is that he's an asshole, although he doesn't have a corner on that market by a long shot.

He'll be remembered as a great player; the steroids foible will probably be recalled with the same bemusement that people express when they speak of Babe Ruth's drinking. I don't deny his talent, but I do believe the allegations from Game of Shadows. Barry's fond of lecturing about how no one has ever seen him do anything wrong. But I have never seen a lot of stuff I believe actually happened (the Moon landing, the Burr-Hamilton duel, and both OJ and Scott Peterson killing their wives are among them). I believe he got angry when others started hitting Too Many HRs and decided he was going to hit Too Many as well. The innocent-until-proven-guilty business is something you hear from right and left wing types. But I don't have the responsibility as judge and jury over Bonds or the power to punish him -- all I can do is withhold my applause.

So I don't care for the guy and there will always be an asterisk after his HR total in my mind. All the other users, too. I don't believe they should be removed entirely from the record books. Furthermore, this does not ruin my enjoyment of the game and I don't agree with Casey that no one concerned cares. To me, steroids are something of a taint, but hardly the end of the world for baseball. Definitely a reason to dislike a guy like Barry, though; I dislike McGwire and Sosa, too, and Canseco, most of all.

One of my workplaces is only ten minutes walk from the Giants' park. I got rid of tickets (at face value, natch) for last night to someone excited that Bonds was gonig to tie or break the record. I don't plan to go back until August 25; hopefully it's all done with by then. I certainly won't be able to root honestly for the Giants, even as a third-favorite team, until Barry's out of town next year (or, Heaven forbid, the next after that).

Not all this is in reaction to your piece, RS. Obviously Schill has a mouth on him and I suppose there's plenty to say on that subject, too, at some point. I guess I wanted to have my say about Barry before the news that the record has fallen actually hits my eyeballs, at which point I'll look away and not say anything.

It is absurd, which is sort of my point (though it's still the logical extension of what Schilling suggested).

It annoys me to hearing people run off at the mouth without taking the full consideration of what they are saying -- which is what I believe Schilling is doing here.

He's lashing out at Canseco in much the same way a kid would lash out at Bonds if asked by a sportswriter for one of those fluff, "what do the young fans think" of this complex issue pieces.

The reason for the attention on Bonds is the HR record and his 73 HR and the media's insistence of portraying him as an asshole. ...

And he may be an asshole, but in every single interview with him I have ever seen, he comes across as pleasant and willing to talk about the things he wants to talk about.

And he informs the media in a plesant way that he doesn't want to discuss certain things. Naturally, when the media asks those off-limits questions again and again and again, he gets annoyed. And that makes him "surly".

There will be no asterik for me. Some of them were off pitchers who used steroids. Or greenies. Or HGH. He hit the HR. Period.

I believe Fat Billy did *something* to extend his career and experience the exact same kind of performance improvement at a late age as Bonds did, but I'm not putting any asteriks on his wins or strikeouts.

For instance, the authors write that by 2001, when Bonds broke Mark McGwire's single-season home-run record (70) by belting 73, Bonds was using two designer steroids referred to as the Cream and the Clear, as well as insulin, human growth hormone, testosterone decanoate (a fast-acting steroid known as Mexican beans) and trenbolone, a steroid created to improve the muscle quality of cattle.

The authors compiled the information over a two-year investigation that included, but was not limited to, court documents, affidavits filed by BALCO investigators, confidential memoranda of federal agents (including statements made to them by athletes and trainers), grand jury testimony, audiotapes and interviews with more than 200 sources.

Canseco: "I guess it's just Curt being Curt. ... He lied before Congress and he was reprimanded for it. What a horrendous performance he put on with the spotlight on him in front of the whole world and he could have said something important. Of all people to be saying something like that. Are you kidding me? He's a complete hypocrite. Nobody takes him seriously. People around baseball all feel the same way about him. I could care less what Schilling thinks."

I wouldn't be surprised if Fat Billy did something. I hear a lot of talk about his extraordinary workouts, which is also what the Bash Brother A's teams were known for. The gym is what fostered the 'roids in baseball- that's what they're best at, fueling your body to keep going and going and going.

I waffle a bit back and forth on Bonds. Sucks that he cheated, I guess, but I've always felt like he's getting creamed by the press and the fans (pun intended) simply because he's the best, and he doesn't play along with the PR game. I can't hate him for that. I feel bad for Hammerin' Hank, but I've seen enough reasonably solid analysis of home run rates and projections to be pretty sure he isn't going to last up there as long as Aaron did, whether or not Slappy's career takes a nosedive.

Funny moment in the Royals-Yanks broadcast that illustrates the selective attitudes towards different kinds of cheating in baseball- Arod was up, and they brought in special balls to authenticate his possible 500th homerun. The Royals announcers begin bemoaning this because, of course, now the pitcher can't cut or scuff or otherwise doctor the baseball. The special balls are tracebale, so obviously the pitcher would get caught. They sounded genuinely indignant about the situation.

It doesn't surprise me to hear Schilling, a Bush-backing Republican, parrot the wingnuts' mantra that if you are innocent, you shouldn't mind having your house searched, phone tapped, mail opened, web activities tracked, urine tested, being filmed by cameras throughout your town, etc., etc. (How odd, then, that the current group of conservatives pushing this crap are without question the most secretive government in American history, refusing to obey even the most simple laws designed to foster transparency in government.)

So, your reaction would be different if he was a Kerry-loving Democrat? Please. Take your political diatribe and go somewhere else with it. Schilling is an egotistical idiot who wants press time so he can make himself look good. His political opinions don't mean jack in this situation or this discussion.

I can't believe Schilling doesn't realize there are myriad instances in which a lawyer would advise his client not to answer a certain question, even if the charges against that client are totally inaccurate.

Oh, he realizes it alright. If he didn't realize it, he would have spoken up when he was in front of Congress. That's why he kept his mouth shut. He just wants to have his cake and eat it too by looking like a player who has the moral high ground.

And yet MLB has taken absolutely no action against Bonds. He has been neither suspended nor fined for his apparent transgressions. Why is that?

I'm betting because they know they'd be hypocrites if they did anything. They'd also probably get accused of other things (someone would pull out the "because Bonds is black" argument) as well.

I mean to say that Bonds isn't going to last as long as Aaron on top of the record books.

A lot of people I've talked to have said that they don't really care about Bonds breaking Aaron's record because A-Rod will break Bonds' record in the near future. Interesting way to look at the situation.

So, your reaction would be different if he was a Kerry-loving Democrat? Please. Take your political diatribe and go somewhere else with it.

Somewhere else besides my own blog? Please, yourself.

I guess you weren't around when JoS was split between politics and Red Sox. If you were, then you'd know that I have as much disgust and hatred, if not more disgust and hatred, for the Democrats.

His political opinions don't mean jack in this situation or this discussion.

In my experience, every single time I hear someone seriously use the "if you're not hiding anything, then ..." line, it's coming from a right-winger. ... A right-winger with his head up his ass.

There have been many things said about Schilling that he has likely ignored rather than dignify with a response (or a lawsuit). To then claim that not bothering to respond is a de facto admission of guilt is ignorant, simplistic and wrong.

In 2003, as their relationship completely unraveled, Bell angered Bonds by showing up late for a hotel rendezvous. According to the excerpt, Bonds put his hand around her throat, pressed her against a wall and whispered, "If you ever f-----' pull some s--- like that again I'll kill you, do you understand me?"

9Casey, I don't know Barry Bonds as a person. Until I do, I won't judge him as a person. When I say "The Man," I mean his public persona, which I enjoy.

I doubt he's an angel in his personal life, but I doubt he's the devil, either. That's probably fair to say about any player in any uniform.

I don't pay attention to snippets of stories like that. I'm here to watch the game. I like the way Barry plays it, I like the way he deals with fans, teammates and media, and I think he's being unfairly singled out for disapproval. Because of that, I like to be a loyal fan to him.

If that offends you, that's your right, but I don't want to argue about it.

If that offends you, that's your right, but I don't want to argue about it.

It doesn't offend me, It confuses me....You have always been pretty forthright in your feelings on abuse........Wheter or not you choose to believe him and not her that is your choice......In my opinion there is very little to like about this man.......

I don't want to argue either, It just seems as though you like him becuase everybody hates him, there may be no truth to that, Thats is just the way it comes off sometimes.....

You and Redsock clearly do not like Curt Schilling and most of that dislike centers around religion and politics , not cheating and girlfriend abuse.....I am just trying to wrap my little brain around it.....

You and Redsock clearly do not like Curt Schilling and most of that dislike centers around religion and politics, not cheating and girlfriend abuse

My problem with Schilling is his apparent need to put his beliefs front and center -- and make such a show of it.

I'd much prefer him if I had no idea how he voted or whether he believed god.

To me, praying in the dugout before taking the mound makes much more sense than standing out there and making a public display of it -- at the exact time the cameras will be showing him, as I have pointed out before. Does he think god can hear him better if he's out in the open?

And anyone on that side of the political spectrum is going to annoying the shit out of me, whether they are an athlete, author, actor, or co-worker.

It just seems as though you like him becuase everybody hates him, there may be no truth to that,

Any time I have seen or listened to Bonds, he seems like a normal guy. I see none of the surliness or meanness or any of the other negative labels the media puts on him. It's like they are telling me about a completely different person.

There are plenty of people who the media is not crazy about that get a free pass (Jeter being one of them; see the 2004 Sox book Tale of Two Cities). Bonds clearly gets no free pass.

It's like how a lot of the media talks about Manny -- lazy, always late, pisses in the Monster, plays whereever he wants to in the outfield, clubhouse cancer. Anyone who doesn't follows the Sox and listens to Fox and ESPN thinks that's the way Manny is.

How the media decides who will be described as a nice guy and who will be a surly asshole -- when they often do the same things -- is fascinating to me -- but it also annoys me.

Any time I have seen or listened to Bonds, he seems like a normal guy. I see none of the surliness or meanness or any of the other negative labels the media puts on him. It's like they are telling me about a completely different person.

Leave that all out of the equation, the media and how people are portrayed...He is about to break the most coveted record in all of sports, and did so by cheating.Are you allright with this? Bonds also wears a cross from his ear and points to heaven after every homerun(when he knows the camera is surely on him should he wait till he gets to the clubhouse to point in the air?) , are you allright with that?

He is about to break the most coveted record in all of sports, and did so by cheating. Are you allright with this?

Yes.

(Though I do not think it's the most coveted record in baseball, let alone sports. Aaron says the Total Base record (which he holds) is more important and I agree.)

Bonds also wears a cross from his ear and points to heaven after every homerun (when he knows the camera is surely on him should he wait till he gets to the clubhouse to point in the air?), are you allright with that?

Well, Ortiz does the same thing -- and many others, including Pedro, also pointed skyward. Maybe I'm employing a double standard here, but it doesn't bother me when they do it. Maybe because I know they are dedicating their game/home run to a deceased mother or other relative who has died and not necessarily to god.

So no, it doesn't bother me when Bonds does that. If he talked about god in interviews and kept pointing, it might start getting on my nerves.

Also, I take the person's entire personality into account. I like Pedro and Ortiz more than I like Schilling, so I give them some extra slack.

Redsock gave most of the answers I would have. But of course I'll throw in a few more.

- I don't care about cheating. In every human endeavor, from the playground to Wall Street, there will always be a certain percentage of people who will cheat. Unless we can definitively determine every single person that cheated in baseball - not just now, but in every era - then I won't single out one person, or a few people, for my approbation. The fact is, I just don't care.

- The percentage of people who cheat will go way up if people think they can't get caught. MLB had a disincentive to control cheating - because they profit from home runs and bloated offense - so they looked the other way. If steroid use is rampant in baseball, it's Baseball's own fault. Bud Selig's sanctimonious hypocrisy is way worse than any player's possible steroid use, IMO.

- Players' personal lives are not my business. If I wanted to cheer only for players who were good people, I'd have to know every player really well. Since I have no opportunity for that - and since it would take all the fun out of my baseball experience - I discount the whole enterprise and stick to the game.

- I would make exceptions for something truly egregious, like rape, child abuse or this shit with Michael Vick. But allegations about a player who is already loathed are suspicious to me. (Cross-ref allegations of Manny being lazy.)

- People's politics are extremely important to me. I can't help that, it's the way I'm made. People who support senseless war are WAAAAY more loathesome to me than someone who cheats in a sport - or who snarls at the media.

- Praying in public makes me sick. Pointing at the sky after a hit or run makes me sick.

- I have never heard a nasty word out of Barry Bonds, except when the media is harrassing him.

- Bonds has never tested positive on an MLB drug test that I know of, and has never been officially accused of anything by MLB, also as far as I know, although my knowledge may be lacking because I don't follow the issue, because I don't care about it.

- I love MLB records being broken. It's what sport is all about. But I don't think this is the most coveted record in all of sports. To me that sounds like the Yankees calling themselves the most storied franchise in the history of the universe, or whatever their promos say. More people around the globe watch football/soccer than baseball. I doubt they all think the career home run record is the most coveted record in all of sports. My world sometimes revolves around baseball, but the world does not.

- I don't like Barry Bonds because everyone hates him, but I won't hate him for that reason, either.

He is about to break the most coveted record in all of sports, and did so by cheating.Are you allright with this?

Also 9Casey:

In all fairness I dont care......Who cheated ,when or how they did it....

I don't want to know that all the sports I watch is actually bullshit, which it is turning out to be .......

??

I was glued to my television when Mcgwire and Sosa were going back and forth for Maris's record.....Then the excitement of that moment was diminished with congress and everything else...

I believe Bonds used and may still be using steriods and rather be caught up in the moment like I was before I choose to look the other way.

I can say I don't care, because I can do nothing aboutit but bitch on this blog about it.......Really because it effects me in very little ways in what goes on in my life.....

I believe in winning fair and square doing things with dignity and self respect and respect for others....I would have trouble sleeping at night knowing I got something the easy way.....I lack that win at all costs mentallity.......I said it before , I root for the uniform and not the people who wear them....

We live in a world now if you are in the public eye and you stray from the law or cheat or try to fix games or kill dogs..They will find you and expose you .People will bring you down hard and quick ...

L-girl:- Bonds has never tested positive on an MLB drug test that I know of

He tested positive for amphetamines this year.....

L-girl said:- Praying in public makes me sick. Pointing at the sky after a hit or run makes me sick.

Something that effects in you no way and harms no one should not make you sick.

I konow some of the things that make you truly sick...i.e. child abuse ,domestic abuse, animal abuse,war, right wingers, sexual abuse......

prayer ,i hope, isn't in your mind as bad as those...

People like Curt Schilling, In my opinon, believe they are truly blessed.......I am not saying I like all the public praying and pointing, and the fact that everyone who wins an award thanks God first.....I'm just saying if people think praying helps , good for them....sometimes we all need a little help......

I konow some of the things that make you truly sick...i.e. child abuse ,domestic abuse, animal abuse,war, right wingers, sexual abuse......

prayer ,i hope, isn't in your mind as bad as those...

I never said I had a problem with prayer. Prayer is a positive thing for many people, and absolutely none of my business.

I said:

Praying in public makes me sick.

Big difference. It's not the prayer that bothers me. It's the ostentatious display, and the idea that a supreme being cares about a friggin baseball game. The audacity and egocentricity of that is loathesome to me.

We live in a world now if you are in the public eye and you stray from the law or cheat or try to fix games or kill dogs..They will find you and expose you .People will bring you down hard and quick ...

If only, if only. Every day of my life I wish we lived in this world. What a wonderful world it would be.

I think we live in a world where people get away with murder, lies, corruption and greed, and almost nothing happens to any of them. (And I think the world has always been like this, I don't think it's new.)

That's one of the many reasons I don't care about Barry Bonds or anyone else possibly cheating. It's not important (IMO).

I read Hank Aaron's autobiography, and he said in his era most of the players used amphetamines. He described trying them and not liking how they made him feel, so he didn't use it again. But he said almost everyone used them.

Are they all horrible people who were bringing down our cherished game?

Nope. Just people, cheating, getting away with it, and life went on. And the statistics stand untouched.

I believe in winning fair and square doing things with dignity and self respect and respect for others....I would have trouble sleeping at night knowing I got something the easy way.....I lack that win at all costs mentallity.......

Geez, I'm the least competitive person you'll ever meet. I don't even have a win mentality, never mind win at all costs.

But we're not talking about ourselves. We're talking about professional athletes, who must by definition be hyper-competitive. If they're not, they'll never make it to the bigs, and then they'll never stay there.

But by the way, I would bet everything I own (which I grant you, is very little) that everyone reading this discussion has cheated at something, at some time in their life, and slept perfectly well. Taxes? A test? A game of Scrabble? A girlfriend? (Maybe when you were younger?)

l-girl said:But by the way, I would bet everything I own (which I grant you, is very little) that everyone reading this discussion has cheated at something, at some time in their life, and slept perfectly well. Taxes?