Our scope here is to rattle evangelical norms that threaten Biblical norms (as well as pretend we are smarter and more "spiritual" than we actually are).

Wayne Grudem believes that because the Son was subordinated to the Father this reveals the subordination which women are to have in relation to men. In other words, the Father has authority over the Son, meaning there is a hierarchical structure within the God-head. I do not hold to such hog-wash (I always wanted to say that!) as the concept of the Trinity is about three equal “persons”, involving no hint of hierarchy. In fact Jesus (according to parts of the New Testament) was not “under” the Father(‘s authority) but rather was there creating with the Father and Spirit at the creation of the cosmos; Jesus (at least in creation) was not “submissive” but was rather very authoritative! While in the Gospels there seems to be some sort of subordination at times, this seems to only be the case in Jesus’ ministry; he is then “exalted to the right hand of God” and given the name above any other name. Yet Grudem (and others apparently) hold to an eternal subordination of the Son to the Father. Grudem’s position that the Trinity teaches women subordination says more about his views than what the Bible actually says; more about his bias (=log in his eye) than about what the Bible teaches and implies concerning the Trinity. The Trinity is silent concerning women in ministry and in positions of authority. If you look under every rock for your already-crystallized (or written in stone) positions then you likely will find them.

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Paul Moldovan

I am a music enthusiast as well as an avid song-writer. I am also a comic enthusiast and enjoy creating graphic novels in my spare time. I am a follower of Jesus and on the side I love delving into books on theology and church history. I am married to the absolute love of my life and am a father of one. I am currently studying theology at Portland Seminary of George Fox, where I am working towards my MDiv. And lastly, I suffer from 'Netflix syndrome.'

4 thoughts on “Wayne Grudem’s Log in his Eye in regards to the Trinity (in its apparent relation to Women subordination)”

Not only that, but when you look at how Jesus as the “head” over the Holy Spirit had let the Holy Spirit be sent out, teach, authorize / perform holy signs and all the interactions / mentions in the book of Acts – you see Jesus stepping out of the spotlight so the Holy Spirit can be the main agent of God. But when you look at complementarian churches, it’s all about women being out of sight and out of mind (unless they’re singing). Women can’t teach, women can’t preach, women can’t lead prayers – or even read from the Word of God in some of the more conservative churches. That’s not how Jesus and the Holy Spirit act out their roles, but somehow it’s okay for men to lead women that way.

Hey Jamie, you make very good points. I grew up in Fundamentalist Pentecostal churches which were complementarian, and yet in those churches prayers by women were welcomed (as of course were prophesies as well). As I learned more about different denominations I was shocked to learn that some don’t even allow women to pray! It’s hard for me to reconcile such a stance with Romans and the female apostle.

All too often, they find ways to explain that away. For Junia, she’s not really an apostle – she’s only known to them just as the apostles know of other Christians doesn’t make them leaders. But some go so far to say as Junias, a man, is obviously among the apostles. It just depends on which teaching they learned in an effort to explain away uncomfortable truths.

I also do not hold that Junias was an apostle like Paul and the twelve were but that she was simply some type of leader. I also have encountered the argument that Junias was a man but this proves to be a straw man’s argument :).