Blackberry's Way To Trump Apple

True. Having something like a smartphone doesn't necessarily make you cool but having something like an iphone can definitely make you uncool.

Lol. I have owned both. There is nothing wrong with an iPhone. BlackBerry and iPhones like comparing oranges to apples. Those type of comments usually posted to initiate an argument and/or negative responses which is what most try to avoid. More of the SOS. IMHO, If a smartphone corporation (regardless of the name brand) wants to sell more smartphones, create a better product or one that will compete on the market.

Personally I think RIM has to get BB10 devices out before spending the marketing money. Does anyone seriously think that if RIM advertises BB7 devices in the US, unlike what they did for the first for months of availability, that they are going to start flying off of shelves in the US? They will not and that train left the station back in August. Now once BB10 devices are here with Apps, Balance, and features and an OS that should be ahead of the competition then that is when you start running commercials like Samsung is running showing how waiting in lines for days for a phone is lame, as is having someone decide what content is suitable for you. But for now RIM should just shut its mouth, work on BB10 and get it to market.

Personally I think RIM has to get BB10 devices out before spending the marketing money. Does anyone seriously think that if RIM advertises BB7 devices in the US, unlike what they did for the first for months of availability, that they are going to start flying off of shelves in the US? They will not and that train left the station back in August. Now once BB10 devices are here with Apps, Balance, and features and an OS that should be ahead of the competition then that is when you start running commercials like Samsung is running showing how waiting in lines for days for a phone is lame, as is having someone decide what content is suitable for you. But for now RIM should just shut its mouth, work on BB10 and get it to market.

Well said.
Now is the time for action. Quit talking and crank out the BB10 devices - on time.

iPhones are not top-tier business machines. In every important facet for business users, they fall behind the BlackBerry Bold. And the Bold really isn't that good any more.

I don't mind people who have iPhones but it is hard to take seriously the ones who claim they chose it for business reasons. In reality they are compromising on business functionality for cool factor / fun apps / multimedia / whatever.

It's a bit sad that the best business machine on offer these days is the BBB. Nobody is interested in investing in genuine development of enterprise functionality. God help business users if / when RIM goes out of business.

Yep, this is another Apple vs RIM thread.
I have had an iPhone and fail to see how it is a more productive device than a BB, not to mention the one thing it excels at is video gaming (and there are some damn good ones out there.) That's just my take from having carried one.

At any rate, something so individual and personal will never be decided on a forum. Is the point of this kind of thread to log on and hope to influence someone all Apple to say something like "wow was I wrong! You've proven what an ignorant child I am and I thought my iPhone made me elite, but you've made me realize how superior your BlackBerry and how grownup you all are instead!" Such accusations are what seem to be made against Apple folk in these kind of threads, so is the aim to "break" them?

If this is not the goal, directly or indirectly, what is the point of argument? I don't see much value in belittling people over their smartphone love, but also in all fairness, I don't feel iPhone or Android purists have much reason to be 'here' either. Assuming CrackBerry truly is meant for BlackBerry enthusiasts, fanboys, ardent lovers, etc. At which point, why wouldn't they be spending time talking to people on sites geared directly towards them instead of one that is absolutely not?

iPhones are not top-tier business machines. In every important facet for business users, they fall behind the BlackBerry Bold. And the Bold really isn't that good any more.

I don't mind people who have iPhones but it is hard to take seriously the ones who claim they chose it for business reasons. In reality they are compromising on business functionality for cool factor / fun apps / multimedia / whatever.

It's a bit sad that the best business machine on offer these days is the BBB. Nobody is interested in investing in genuine development of enterprise functionality. God help business users if / when RIM goes out of business.

There are some things the iPhone does that is better than the BB for business.

I believe the iPhone is better for the medical field (which is a business, and all my Dr. and specialist I have visited use them), it has better remote desktop capabilities (which is used in business) and has many other dedicated business apps that BBs just don't have.

It might not be a great device for you, but for others it is a blessing. Switch that around and the same can be said about the BB.

the basis of your post was to rubbish one point of view ("wrong on all counts") and to prove how wrong he was you made it clear that the iphone does not cost $25 as the op thinks but is $188 ("iPhone 4s BOM. $188 - materials only 16gb").

If you had stated that these numbers were isuppli estimates then your post would have been fair, however you DID present conjecture as fact, leaving your post to read "your guess is as good as mine but mine is better"

The only thing i can reasonably guarantee is that both the OP and the isuppli numbers are wrong.

Originally Posted by xandermac

Sure, isuppli numbers are an estimate but i'll guarantee they're closer than the number TMV got from the "very senior sources" they supposedly contacted.

the basis of your post was to rubbish one point of view ("wrong on all counts") and to prove how wrong he was you made it clear that the iphone does not cost $25 as the op thinks but is $188 ("iPhone 4s BOM. $188 - materials only 16gb").

If you had stated that these numbers were isuppli estimates then your post would have been fair, however you DID present conjecture as fact, leaving your post to read "your guess is as good as mine but mine is better"

The only thing i can reasonably guarantee is that both the OP and the isuppli numbers are wrong.

The OP didn't state any numbers. He posted the information from the article. My post was directed at the article and their "very senior sources", not another member so calm down. again, theses numbers are easily verifiable. If you don't trust isuppli I can understand that.

The author of that article doesn't count on people actually doing a little research just like every other trash journalist.

As for their claim about the cheapest parts, the list is there on isuppli (often used as a source by major media outlets rather than TMV), by manufacturer, part # etc for anyone to see and to price for themselves. The author of the article is a moron. Sorry if you disagree.

the basis of your post was to rubbish one point of view ("wrong on all counts") and to prove how wrong he was you made it clear that the iphone does not cost $25 as the op thinks but is $188 ("iPhone 4s BOM. $188 - materials only 16gb").

If you had stated that these numbers were isuppli estimates then your post would have been fair, however you DID present conjecture as fact, leaving your post to read "your guess is as good as mine but mine is better"

The only thing i can reasonably guarantee is that both the OP and the isuppli numbers are wrong.

Well, perhaps this would help.

Source "A" says that Tom Brady can run the forty yard dash in 9/10ths of a second ("iPhone costs only $25"). Everyone is qualified to immediately say "That's rubbish. Tom Brady takes far, far longer than 9/10ths of a second to run a forty, and materials for an iPhone 4s cost far, far more than $25".

I think we can agree that the iPhone 4s BOM is several multiples of $25 higher than $25, and likely not more than $25 off of $188. Tom Brady certainly takes many times 9/10ths of a second to run a forty, and his actual time is almost certainly less than 9/10ths of a second off of 5.0

Before i point out how wrong the TMV article is on numerous points, i got two quick questions...

Originally Posted by E92Vancouver

Time for RIM to start with heavy marketing that shows Blackberries as being cool and iphones as being uncool. Samsung has already started as Apple continues to get Samsunged with their marketing.

1: If RIM has to 'out cool' Apple, you do realize that it's impossible, right? I mean they can try, but whenever a company purposely sets out to be cool and youthful, they invariably end up like the corporate version of a forty-something guy who all of a sudden sports a ponytail, gets a piercing and wears skinny jeans despite his midway bulge and thinning hair...

Originally Posted by E92Vancouver

So on your next commute to work ask the first person who pulls out their iPhone what is so cool about having the same phone as the person next to them? Then ask them how does the iPhone make them creative and individualistic? It will be interesting to hear about the responses you receive

2: Would I get extra points if I can pull it off without seeming overly creepy or outright jealous? Sure, iPhones have an elitist twinge to them. But I can only imagine two scenarios where somebody would actually ask a perfect stranger what you're suggesting. Either that they really desire an iPhone, but it's financially out of their reach, so they jealously question the ulterior motive of everyone who CAN afford it. Or that they're just using the question as a springboard for an angry anti capitalist rant about the evils of a consumer society....

There are some things the iPhone does that is better than the BB for business.

I believe the iPhone is better for the medical field (which is a business, and all my Dr. and specialist I have visited use them), it has better remote desktop capabilities (which is used in business) and has many other dedicated business apps that BBs just don't have.

It might not be a great device for you, but for others it is a blessing. Switch that around and the same can be said about the BB.

I've mentioned numerous times that there are medical apps not available on any other platform. That's a given.

Not having any need for remote access, I haven't checked out the options on the various platforms. But I know I've seen info on the same type of thing for BBs.

IIRC, you can find business apps on all the platforms. Some do not have variations on all of them. Quite a few of those are niche markets, the app programmed for whatever platform the programmer uses. But, as the niche categories narrow, how many of these are really needed by all business users? And how much medical or business info is it wise to carry around on a cellphone that can be cracked, stolen, remotely accessed?

I've mentioned numerous times that there are medical apps not available on any other platform. That's a given.

Not having any need for remote access, I haven't checked out the options on the various platforms. But I know I've seen info on the same type of thing for BBs.

IIRC, you can find business apps on all the platforms. Some do not have variations on all of them. Quite a few of those are niche markets, the app programmed for whatever platform the programmer uses. But, as the niche categories narrow, how many of these are really needed by all business users? And how much medical or business info is it wise to carry around on a cellphone that can be cracked, stolen, remotely accessed?

Not all apps are created equal. I have friends who use specific apps on the iPhone that offer the functionality they need for their business. Some aren't available on BBs and certain people may just not like BBs and their version of the app.

I never said all business users need it, but a lot do and that is why the iPhone is also a great business device. It offers options that people need for their business. Different strokes for different folks. Same goes for Android.

Most of my doctors who have iPhones and iPads have security locks on them with remote wipe capabilities. Medical and business info can easily be stored in apps that are AES 256bit encryption. If they are really that scared they can move to a different platform (but more and more keep getting them so I doubt they are worried).

There are some things the iPhone does that is better than the BB for business.

I believe the iPhone is better for the medical field (which is a business, and all my Dr. and specialist I have visited use them), it has better remote desktop capabilities (which is used in business) and has many other dedicated business apps that BBs just don't have.

It might not be a great device for you, but for others it is a blessing. Switch that around and the same can be said about the BB.

Niche apps are niche apps. As a general business machine, the BBB shits all over the iPhone and it's not even close.

I haven't used an iPhone except for messing around friends so I can't really comment much. But I would like to see a locked down iPhone compete against a locked down BlackBerry, I'm not sure who would win(but I have a hunch) but with the consumerization of IT I'd think that a lot of companies are having more and more functionality added onto their business phone all the time. Which doesn't make sense. Just like most places aren't allowed to go on facebook/whatever else on their work computer neither should they be allowed to go onto such things on their business phone. A business phone should be locked down for work things only, and then after work they can use it for whatever. So luckily RIM has this coming out soon, hopefully a lot of companies will get on board with this.

I feel sorry for the IT guys that have to deal with all this crap now-a-days.

Time for RIM to start with heavy marketing that shows Blackberries as being cool and iphones as being uncool. Samsung has already started as Apple continues to get ..

Your focus is wrong. Apple is only a part of RIM"s problem. Android sells more smartphones than Apple. What you see between Samsing and Apple is just one manufacturers sales pitch. Apple is just the poster boy people love to hate for whatever reason. People who are supporters of less successful or struggling platforms need an outlet to vent their jealousy, envy in lieu of dealing with the situation at hand, your platform has problems. You can see this "hive" mind on various other forums bashing one platform or another.

Niche apps are niche apps. As a general business machine, the BBB shits all over the iPhone and it's not even close.

People who use iPhones for business are using a sub-par platform.

User preference. Your opinion is your opinion. That's great.

I have friends that use the devices with no complaints and love the business capabilities (same goes for Android). If it is good enough for them to fully run their business then it must not be that bad.

I haven't used an iPhone except for messing around friends so I can't really comment much. But I would like to see a locked down iPhone compete against a locked down BlackBerry, I'm not sure who would win(but I have a hunch) but with the consumerization of IT I'd think that a lot of companies are having more and more functionality added onto their business phone all the time. Which doesn't make sense. Just like most places aren't allowed to go on facebook/whatever else on their work computer neither should they be allowed to go onto such things on their business phone. A business phone should be locked down for work things only, and then after work they can use it for whatever. So luckily RIM has this coming out soon, hopefully a lot of companies will get on board with this.

I feel sorry for the IT guys that have to deal with all this crap now-a-days.

Businesses used to work this way. "No personal copies!" "Did you just take a thirty-one minute lunch break?!?!?" "Are you using up our Internet? (Do companies get a rebate on unused bandwidth at the end of the day LOL?).

Unless you are a low-value added worker, those days are over. I feel sorry for the IT guys who haven't wised up. Businesses can no longer afford to make "IT decisions" as you describe. They now make business decisions.

If you work somewhere that cares what website you visit or what phone number you call, leave. Find some place where you are paid for your performance and production, not your presence and obedience. You'll know them when you find them, they will be the leaders in their industries.

Originally Posted by sinsin07

Yep. The old RIM thought this.

Your use of the past tense and "old" RIMM confuses me, but otherwise I agree.

Businesses used to work this way. "No personal copies!" "Did you just take a thirty-one minute lunch break?!?!?" "Are you using up our Internet? (Do companies get a rebate on unused bandwidth at the end of the day LOL?).

Unless you are a low-value added worker, those days are over. I feel sorry for the IT guys who haven't wised up. Businesses can no longer afford to make "IT decisions" as you describe. They now make business decisions.

If you work somewhere that cares what website you visit or what phone number you call, leave. Find some place where you are paid for your performance and production, not your presence and obedience. You'll know them when you find them, they will be the leaders in their industries.

Your use of the past tense and "old" RIMM confuses me, but otherwise I agree.

Lol. It was my
lame attempt to try and see RIM in a new light. My apologies LOL

I haven't used an iPhone except for messing around friends so I can't really comment much. But I would like to see a locked down iPhone compete against a locked down BlackBerry, I'm not sure who would win(but I have a hunch) but with the consumerization of IT I'd think that a lot of companies are having more and more functionality added onto their business phone all the time. Which doesn't make sense. Just like most places aren't allowed to go on facebook/whatever else on their work computer neither should they be allowed to go onto such things on their business phone. A business phone should be locked down for work things only, and then after work they can use it for whatever. So luckily RIM has this coming out soon, hopefully a lot of companies will get on board with this.

I feel sorry for the IT guys that have to deal with all this crap now-a-days.

I take it you don't know that an iPhone, or Android phone can be locked down every bit as efficient as a blackberry? No apps, not visiting unauthorized sites, no nothing?

What's the advantage, then? Well beside the obvious like the better browser and just a nicer device, both iPhones and Androidnare infinitely more friendly and easy to develop for... So companies that require home built software can save time and money. On top of the money they save on BES and BB infrastructure.

Yep. The old RIM thought this. That's why Apple/Android sales sh all over the RIM in the US.

Not really. RIM stopped innovating. Apple and Android caught up to their business capabilities - not completely, but enough to win over most people who like 'lifestyle' bells and whistles.

Nowadays, most business users are willing to compromise on business functionality in order to get the lifestyle crap offered by other platforms. That's why RIM is dying.

If RIM starts innovating again then they will pull back all serious business consumers. Why? Because Apple and Google aren't interested in providing serious enterprise devices that are designed specifically with the power business user in mind. As a result they will always be second best.

Like I said, it's depressing that the Bold - an outdated device by a company that's not even trying any more - still shits all over the iOS and Android alternatives from a business perspective. Absolutely disgraceful how little Apple and Google care about the enterprise user.

Not really. RIM stopped innovating. Apple and Android caught up to their business capabilities - not completely, but enough to win over most people who like 'lifestyle' bells and whistles.

Nowadays, most business users are willing to compromise on business functionality in order to get the lifestyle crap offered by other platforms. That's why RIM is dying.

If RIM starts innovating again then they will pull back all serious business consumers. Why? Because Apple and Google aren't interested in providing serious enterprise devices that are designed specifically with the power business user in mind. As a result they will always be second best.

Like I said, it's depressing that the Bold - an outdated device by a company that's not even trying any more - still shits all over the iOS and Android alternatives from a business perspective. Absolutely disgraceful how little Apple and Google care about the enterprise user.

Forget about innovation for the moment, RIM failed to copy. Copy? Yes, copy what the mobile industry was doing, which is slab touch screen and apps.

Originally Posted by Caesar1844

Nowadays, most business users are willing to compromise on business functionality in order to get the lifestyle crap offered by other platforms. That's why RIM is dying.

You still think like RIM of 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 & 2011. I heard the GPS on current RIM devices is useful in finding the current year.

RIM's market strategy should be to go after the individual. Show that they understand that there is no one perfect phone or platform for everyone. People make fun at the number of BlackBerry phones that RIM makes, in the different form factors. They make fun of the flip, can't understand why someone would want the Pearl.

Everyone is racing towards having a large rectangular phone because that is what the market is clamoring for. But what about the individual who loves their physical keyboard, what about the individual who would prefer to keep their phone as a communication device?

The thing is, not to trash your competition. Just prove that you are viable alternative. I honestly believe that if you have valid reasons why someone should use your product, other than it is what everyone is using or it is trendy now, you can succeed and survive.
They need to create the perfect CONSUMER usage case for a BlackBerry, then build on that.