Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF

There are many free homeschooling sites with pdf files. It would be great to have them just in case there are issues.

Get medications that your kids need. See if your doctor will prescribe 3 months supplies for them.

Get some presents tomorrow for Christmas. Little gifts that you could give out not only then, but throughout the year as incentives. They'll really appreciate them.

Children can thrive in the woods as long as they have calm parents. They cannot keep up with your pace up and down tails. You've got to plan adequately if you do have to walk some.

Kids are used to incorrectly using a backpack since kids at school wear them in the wrong fashion, which adds too much stress to their lower back. You'll have to reteach them how to buckle it properly and position it higher than they used to wearing it.

Try to make gathering wood into a game. Teach them as much about nature as possible. Being quiet is as important as talking.

Kids love open fires. Tell stories. It can simply be times when they did wonderful things when they were younger. They love hearing how much you love and adore them. Even teens.

Hug and kiss them often. Be generous with your affection. Lavish it on them

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1496915

Precisely WHAT KIND of SHTF scenario do you envision that will allow the preppers to just merrily roll along . . . such as what you describe in your almost Disney-like description above?

There are many free homeschooling sites with pdf files. It would be great to have them just in case there are issues.

Get medications that your kids need. See if your doctor will prescribe 3 months supplies for them.

Get some presents tomorrow for Christmas. Little gifts that you could give out not only then, but throughout the year as incentives. They'll really appreciate them.

Children can thrive in the woods as long as they have calm parents. They cannot keep up with your pace up and down tails. You've got to plan adequately if you do have to walk some.

Kids are used to incorrectly using a backpack since kids at school wear them in the wrong fashion, which adds too much stress to their lower back. You'll have to reteach them how to buckle it properly and position it higher than they used to wearing it.

Try to make gathering wood into a game. Teach them as much about nature as possible. Being quiet is as important as talking.

Kids love open fires. Tell stories. It can simply be times when they did wonderful things when they were younger. They love hearing how much you love and adore them. Even teens.

Hug and kiss them often. Be generous with your affection. Lavish it on them

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1496915

Precisely WHAT KIND of SHTF scenario do you envision that will allow the preppers to just merrily roll along . . . such as what you describe in your almost Disney-like description above?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27838911

Read much further and then tell me if you think it's Disney-like

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734

There are countless possible SHTF scenarios . . . but I asked you to be specific in what type you believe will allow the preppers to continue on.

It's just that there've been numerous threads here wherein preppers post about how much they've got stockpiled and they are oh-so-confident, almost arrogantly so, in what they have stored and that they're in rural areas or have bug-out cabins in the woods to run to or whatever, and I wonder each time what makes them believe they will be protected from any devastating sort of SHTF scenario. Even if someone has months of supplies and are in a small town or in the country, if the rest of the world is devastated, what will be left for the preppers? It's all circular, you know, no man is an island . . .

There are many free homeschooling sites with pdf files. It would be great to have them just in case there are issues.

Get medications that your kids need. See if your doctor will prescribe 3 months supplies for them.

Get some presents tomorrow for Christmas. Little gifts that you could give out not only then, but throughout the year as incentives. They'll really appreciate them.

Children can thrive in the woods as long as they have calm parents. They cannot keep up with your pace up and down tails. You've got to plan adequately if you do have to walk some.

Kids are used to incorrectly using a backpack since kids at school wear them in the wrong fashion, which adds too much stress to their lower back. You'll have to reteach them how to buckle it properly and position it higher than they used to wearing it.

Try to make gathering wood into a game. Teach them as much about nature as possible. Being quiet is as important as talking.

Kids love open fires. Tell stories. It can simply be times when they did wonderful things when they were younger. They love hearing how much you love and adore them. Even teens.

Hug and kiss them often. Be generous with your affection. Lavish it on them

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1496915

Precisely WHAT KIND of SHTF scenario do you envision that will allow the preppers to just merrily roll along . . . such as what you describe in your almost Disney-like description above?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27838911

Read much further and then tell me if you think it's Disney-like

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734

There are countless possible SHTF scenarios . . . but I asked you to be specific in what type you believe will allow the preppers to continue on.

It's just that there've been numerous threads here wherein preppers post about how much they've got stockpiled and they are oh-so-confident, almost arrogantly so, in what they have stored and that they're in rural areas or have bug-out cabins in the woods to run to or whatever, and I wonder each time what makes them believe they will be protected from any devastating sort of SHTF scenario. Even if someone has months of supplies and are in a small town or in the country, if the rest of the world is devastated, what will be left for the preppers? It's all circular, you know, no man is an island . . .

Quoting: itsamadmadworld

This thread is not like that, its about being self-sufficient, self-relient and tips and info you can use NOW and can help regardless of what the actually SHTF event is.

If you can't see how beneficial this thread is, more than just stocking beans and rice, then I guess nothing more needs to be said.

* Eat recycled food, it's good for the environment and O.K for you. (Judge Dredd)

There are many free homeschooling sites with pdf files. It would be great to have them just in case there are issues.

Get medications that your kids need. See if your doctor will prescribe 3 months supplies for them.

Get some presents tomorrow for Christmas. Little gifts that you could give out not only then, but throughout the year as incentives. They'll really appreciate them.

Children can thrive in the woods as long as they have calm parents. They cannot keep up with your pace up and down tails. You've got to plan adequately if you do have to walk some.

Kids are used to incorrectly using a backpack since kids at school wear them in the wrong fashion, which adds too much stress to their lower back. You'll have to reteach them how to buckle it properly and position it higher than they used to wearing it.

Try to make gathering wood into a game. Teach them as much about nature as possible. Being quiet is as important as talking.

Kids love open fires. Tell stories. It can simply be times when they did wonderful things when they were younger. They love hearing how much you love and adore them. Even teens.

Hug and kiss them often. Be generous with your affection. Lavish it on them

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1496915

Precisely WHAT KIND of SHTF scenario do you envision that will allow the preppers to just merrily roll along . . . such as what you describe in your almost Disney-like description above?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27838911

Read much further and then tell me if you think it's Disney-like

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734

There are countless possible SHTF scenarios . . . but I asked you to be specific in what type you believe will allow the preppers to continue on.

It's just that there've been numerous threads here wherein preppers post about how much they've got stockpiled and they are oh-so-confident, almost arrogantly so, in what they have stored and that they're in rural areas or have bug-out cabins in the woods to run to or whatever, and I wonder each time what makes them believe they will be protected from any devastating sort of SHTF scenario. Even if someone has months of supplies and are in a small town or in the country, if the rest of the world is devastated, what will be left for the preppers? It's all circular, you know, no man is an island . . .

Quoting: itsamadmadworld

If you read my postings, it's precisely about rebuilding communities post-collapse. I agree, no man is an island.

For example, should a collapse occur, then you're right many people will starve. Recently I wrote that logically if there's no supply chains, up to 90% could be dead by six months. I'm serious as a heart attack about that, especially with Winter here.

I live in a rural area and can do all of the things I mentioned in my postings. Most people don't have skills only some supplies.

The only way a community can make it it by pooling resources later, however getting people to trust again is critical.

Recently I discussed a way to eat the food in freezers and refrigerators in case the power went off. A good organizer would help people to understand that eating that food in block parties would be wisdom, because otherwise it would spoil and be utterly wasted. Because food is stored as excess in fat and water, then those people could live a week or more on those calories.

In my community there are people who raise animals and feed and have extensive gardens and farms. We're not urban whatsoever.

If a lot of people die, then it'll be the responsibility of the survivors to make things come together and begin civilization again.

Think about it this way, a lot of survivalists are worried about the Horde of people who don't have supplies. Truthfully most of them will die, even the gangs, because to gather up resources and fight is very calorie dependent. Unless people have skills and seed and supplies, then they won't make it. Meanwhile those who manage for even six month to nine months may be alone. Many will be isolated and without medical personel. Only by pooling resources and abilities will the survivors make it.

Anything is possible, but more are plausible. A plague for example is very possible, but some will either have immunity or not catch it. Even with the great influenza epidemic, the majority lived. Think about the great tuberculosis epidemic too. The issue is that people today don't raise food like those folks did. It's a major concern.

I don't believe that a full scale nuclear attack will happen. I think in the end wiser leadership will prevail. I do think military coups are possible, EMP events, large scale natural disasters, another Great Depression, etc are all possible.

If one preps, then one has a cushion. I'm not concerned with survival at all. My goal is educate people and help my family. If I die, so be it. But if I can help them get organized and help some to live, then it's better than not helping at all.

OK specifics, I think that many SHTF scenarios are survivable by a subset of the population. Most are. It depends upon the depth of a crisis. Say we had massive power failure and the nuclear plants all went into a shutdown like Fukushima. Yes, the radioactive isotopes would devastate the land with high cesium, and all manner of isotopes. Still despite what happened at Chernobyl, species adapted and were able to live. Sure humans may not, and can't live in the worst zones. Many will have birth defects and die. Many thyroid cancers will happen, leukemias, bone cancer, pancreatic cancer, etc. Death from all of the radioactive insults as well all malnutrition and lowered immune systems. Istopes will concentrate in the food chain in the land and water. Still life will go on in some fashion.

Read more of my posts. They're about ways to organize after a major event or major events and bringing the community together to dig wells, purify water, deal with sanitation, grow crops, hunt, fish, make rope, create energy from existing devices, make candles, harvest soap from ferns, use vet antibiotics to save lives, harvest herbs, preserve food, etc. It's not about selfishness and doom, it's about affirmation, life, and Hope.

If you read my postings, it's precisely about rebuilding communities post-collapse. I agree, no man is an island.

For example, should a collapse occur, then you're right many people will starve. Recently I wrote that logically if there's no supply chains, up to 90% could be dead by six months. I'm serious as a heart attack about that, especially with Winter here.

I live in a rural area and can do all of the things I mentioned in my postings. Most people don't have skills only some supplies.

The only way a community can make it it by pooling resources later, however getting people to trust again is critical.

Recently I discussed a way to eat the food in freezers and refrigerators in case the power went off. A good organizer would help people to understand that eating that food in block parties would be wisdom, because otherwise it would spoil and be utterly wasted. Because food is stored as excess in fat and water, then those people could live a week or more on those calories.

In my community there are people who raise animals and feed and have extensive gardens and farms. We're not urban whatsoever.

If a lot of people die, then it'll be the responsibility of the survivors to make things come together and begin civilization again.

Think about it this way, a lot of survivalists are worried about the Horde of people who don't have supplies. Truthfully most of them will die, even the gangs, because to gather up resources and fight is very calorie dependent. Unless people have skills and seed and supplies, then they won't make it. Meanwhile those who manage for even six month to nine months may be alone. Many will be isolated and without medical personel. Only by pooling resources and abilities will the survivors make it.

Anything is possible, but more are plausible. A plague for example is very possible, but some will either have immunity or not catch it. Even with the great influenza epidemic, the majority lived. Think about the great tuberculosis epidemic too. The issue is that people today don't raise food like those folks did. It's a major concern.

I don't believe that a full scale nuclear attack will happen. I think in the end wiser leadership will prevail. I do think military coups are possible, EMP events, large scale natural disasters, another Great Depression, etc are all possible.

If one preps, then one has a cushion. I'm not concerned with survival at all. My goal is educate people and help my family. If I die, so be it. But if I can help them get organized and help some to live, then it's better than not helping at all.

OK specifics, I think that many SHTF scenarios are survivable by a subset of the population. Most are. It depends upon the depth of a crisis. Say we had massive power failure and the nuclear plants all went into a shutdown like Fukushima. Yes, the radioactive isotopes would devastate the land with high cesium, and all manner of isotopes. Still despite what happened at Chernobyl, species adapted and were able to live. Sure humans may not, and can't live in the worst zones. Many will have birth defects and die. Many thyroid cancers will happen, leukemias, bone cancer, pancreatic cancer, etc. Death from all of the radioactive insults as well all malnutrition and lowered immune systems. Istopes will concentrate in the food chain in the land and water. Still life will go on in some fashion.

Read more of my posts. They're about ways to organize after a major event or major events and bringing the community together to dig wells, purify water, deal with sanitation, grow crops, hunt, fish, make rope, create energy from existing devices, make candles, harvest soap from ferns, use vet antibiotics to save lives, harvest herbs, preserve food, etc. It's not about selfishness and doom, it's about affirmation, life, and Hope.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734

Thank you for your well-reasoned reply.

Look, I'm not knocking your efforts or your intent, not at all. What I question though, is the logic of those who would WANT to go on in the midst of mass deaths and devastation, radiation, martial law, lawlessness, etc. It's one thing to be prepared as best one can for natural events, such as the east coast hurricane, that can be devastating but affect only a relatively small segment of the country/population - but it's quite another if you're talking about a scenario from something like "The Stand" or "2012" . . . and in those cases, who'd really want to be one of the remaining souls?

Also, I'd like to add something I find frustrating about these discussions, and that is the fact that there are so many people today who literally have no family, no close friends. There are more people than ever before who are divorced, widowed, single, childless by choice, and have intentionally severed ties with dysfunctional family. Such people, in a SHTF event, would have no support, no community. As for friends, the same applies, as more and more people are choosing to be solitary, not cultivating friendships, or have been betrayed too many times and have just said (rightly so) to heck with friends and socializing. So again, these people would not have a solid circle of friends to connect with. Plus, there are a lot of people would never want to impose on others or would feel very out of place relying on strangers.

So I wonder, when these people so openly talk about, even brag about, their confidence in stockpiling and having a community of support - do they EVER consider those who have no community at all.

A lot of people imagine that if the SHTF, then we're all doomed. Not really. Think about it in history. We've had a Carrington Event which destroyed electonics. We've had the Black Death which devastated Europe and Asia, but most survived. We had a mini-Ice Age in which Norweigan settlers in diverse places in colonies were cut off from trading ships, and the first abortive effort to colonize America ended, but people again sent explorers and settlers to the New World. Native Americans saw rampant disease as they came and lacked the antibodies to cope with it, same in Hawaii, and yet not all of the First People died in the New World.

Life goes on. Some humans live in spite of disasterous events. Even during the major Ice age that killed the dinosaurs, mammals, fish, birds, reptiles, etc lived.

Disastsers are not binary events in which either everthing is Disney-like or Doom. The come across a continuum and can be localized or wide-spread. Even the ones across huge geographical areas don't kills everyone or everything.

The best way to prep is to imagine that your time, talent, and treasure invested in learning skills, seed, and supplies are cushions to help you through rough times. People having a surplus for the most part means altrusim is possible. If there is wealth somewhere, then survivors elsewhere can be assisted. That's the human response.

Yes, people can be terrible in a crisis. They can riot. They can use racism to divide them. During the medieval period, religious fervor for the Crusades ended up causing local Jews to be persecuted in England, the latter having nothing to do with a religious war on the Holy Land. Medieval crusaders sacked their own Western cities on the way back from the Holy Land as well. People can act in ridiculous ways out of greed.

My hope is that this topic is about self-reliance. To me, that idea equates to liberty. The more people can prepare for themselves and put away wealth, the more secure they are. Secure people tend to want to maintain trade and peace, for war is terribly expensive in life, property, and goods.

Spending a lot of effort in survival is foolish. Learning old skills to be at one in the Forest i.e. being practiced in the arts of bushcraft is a noble endevor. When one appreciated the Forest and Meadows and comes to know the species of flora and fauna then you become sensitive to the beauty there. In time you see yourself as a species reliant upon the web of Nature.

Here I hope to talk about ways to allow richer more diverse diets because we raise the best food for ourselves. We learn how to cast pots so we can store things like water or even moonshine. It's about learning how to weave cloth and dye it so we can be well dressed.

The alternative is having some other people make or grow those things for us, and that leads to inferior/superior relationships in the short term, and in the long term leads to competition and war.

Prep to make your life richer, not poored by worry about doom and suffering. If we had spent as much money to teach people self-reliance as we have on other government boondoggles then we'd build real wealth and security for our nations.

The Shit will hit the fan someday. It won't probably be from some scary event, it'll most likely be that we're all so impoverished due to being in debt to corporations. That's not the intention of the Founding Fathers in America. It's not the intent of any patriots in any country. That's a brutal kind of Facist state or a government worse than the Romans though they called it a Republic. If one prepares then one can learn how to cope, or you can blindly follow along and be so disconnected from the Land that your feet never touch the Earth's bones, nor grow your food from her soil, but think it comes from grocery stores.

If you read my postings, it's precisely about rebuilding communities post-collapse. I agree, no man is an island.

For example, should a collapse occur, then you're right many people will starve. Recently I wrote that logically if there's no supply chains, up to 90% could be dead by six months. I'm serious as a heart attack about that, especially with Winter here.

I live in a rural area and can do all of the things I mentioned in my postings. Most people don't have skills only some supplies.

The only way a community can make it it by pooling resources later, however getting people to trust again is critical.

Recently I discussed a way to eat the food in freezers and refrigerators in case the power went off. A good organizer would help people to understand that eating that food in block parties would be wisdom, because otherwise it would spoil and be utterly wasted. Because food is stored as excess in fat and water, then those people could live a week or more on those calories.

In my community there are people who raise animals and feed and have extensive gardens and farms. We're not urban whatsoever.

If a lot of people die, then it'll be the responsibility of the survivors to make things come together and begin civilization again.

Think about it this way, a lot of survivalists are worried about the Horde of people who don't have supplies. Truthfully most of them will die, even the gangs, because to gather up resources and fight is very calorie dependent. Unless people have skills and seed and supplies, then they won't make it. Meanwhile those who manage for even six month to nine months may be alone. Many will be isolated and without medical personel. Only by pooling resources and abilities will the survivors make it.

Anything is possible, but more are plausible. A plague for example is very possible, but some will either have immunity or not catch it. Even with the great influenza epidemic, the majority lived. Think about the great tuberculosis epidemic too. The issue is that people today don't raise food like those folks did. It's a major concern.

I don't believe that a full scale nuclear attack will happen. I think in the end wiser leadership will prevail. I do think military coups are possible, EMP events, large scale natural disasters, another Great Depression, etc are all possible.

If one preps, then one has a cushion. I'm not concerned with survival at all. My goal is educate people and help my family. If I die, so be it. But if I can help them get organized and help some to live, then it's better than not helping at all.

OK specifics, I think that many SHTF scenarios are survivable by a subset of the population. Most are. It depends upon the depth of a crisis. Say we had massive power failure and the nuclear plants all went into a shutdown like Fukushima. Yes, the radioactive isotopes would devastate the land with high cesium, and all manner of isotopes. Still despite what happened at Chernobyl, species adapted and were able to live. Sure humans may not, and can't live in the worst zones. Many will have birth defects and die. Many thyroid cancers will happen, leukemias, bone cancer, pancreatic cancer, etc. Death from all of the radioactive insults as well all malnutrition and lowered immune systems. Istopes will concentrate in the food chain in the land and water. Still life will go on in some fashion.

Read more of my posts. They're about ways to organize after a major event or major events and bringing the community together to dig wells, purify water, deal with sanitation, grow crops, hunt, fish, make rope, create energy from existing devices, make candles, harvest soap from ferns, use vet antibiotics to save lives, harvest herbs, preserve food, etc. It's not about selfishness and doom, it's about affirmation, life, and Hope.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734

Thank you for your well-reasoned reply.

Look, I'm not knocking your efforts or your intent, not at all. What I question though, is the logic of those who would WANT to go on in the midst of mass deaths and devastation, radiation, martial law, lawlessness, etc. It's one thing to be prepared as best one can for natural events, such as the east coast hurricane, that can be devastating but affect only a relatively small segment of the country/population - but it's quite another if you're talking about a scenario from something like "The Stand" or "2012" . . . and in those cases, who'd really want to be one of the remaining souls?

Also, I'd like to add something I find frustrating about these discussions, and that is the fact that there are so many people today who literally have no family, no close friends. There are more people than ever before who are divorced, widowed, single, childless by choice, and have intentionally severed ties with dysfunctional family. Such people, in a SHTF event, would have no support, no community. As for friends, the same applies, as more and more people are choosing to be solitary, not cultivating friendships, or have been betrayed too many times and have just said (rightly so) to heck with friends and socializing. So again, these people would not have a solid circle of friends to connect with. Plus, there are a lot of people would never want to impose on others or would feel very out of place relying on strangers.

So I wonder, when these people so openly talk about, even brag about, their confidence in stockpiling and having a community of support - do they EVER consider those who have no community at all.

Just my two cents worth.

Quoting: itsamadmadworld

I equally thank you for clarifying your position. I agree, people without familiy or friends can be ostracized. That is the way of history. In reality, people who were severely indebted in Australia and in North Carolina went to new lands and began again. Many were orphans, widows, widowers, reviled, etc.

People went out to the West in the USA, and found communities who allowed them in, taught them skills and worked together to form new communitues. Yes, they displaced the indigenous people there, much as happened in Australia. Yes, all of that was terrible, but some intermarriage happened in both places. Regardless, lives were made better by many of these downtrodden folks despite adversity.

Think, lots of people traveled by covered wagon with little more than some bare essential tools, their livestock, little money, and some hardtack bread. Over time, they bettered their lot by learning skills, clearing the land, building a home, finding water and digging long term well, learning crafts, using herbs, etc.

Where did that information come from? Well some read books, but a great deal was transmitted orally from other pioneers on the frontier. If there's a collapse, then the ones who survive will look for communities that will accept them. Sure, many will not be helping strangers, but I think that different religious communities, different conservatives, different liberals, gay folks, races of all kinds will be welcomed in communities or they will form their own communities. That's what happened organically in history in the New World.

I'm far more optimistic. Think about this way, the worst form of punishment in prison is solitary. We are social creatures and we make excuses to visit with each other, even to talk about nothing important. In a SHTF scenario when so much life is dying, then how much stronger will that urge be to help.

Yes, there are sociopaths and criminals that don't care, but they're always a small subset of the population. I think most of them unless they have skills won't make it. It need not be like The Road or The Stand. There's no reason it has to be like that. Even if it is, and I can teach people how to harvest flours from clover and cattail, then I can help a generation hold together long enough that some might grow older. In that brief time, some pockets of humanity may strengthed. Be optimistic.

Ugh it should have said indebted in their homelands and then were displaced to Australia and North Carolina. In England, they had debtor's prisons, and the only hope was to go to these places, and not return on pain of death. The ones who chose and stayed away, made new lives.

All of us have some bad history. We did things when we were younger that we regret. We feel shame, even the most noble among us. We live with those moments of weakness in our youth, and then many times they influence us to be better people.

When the SHTF, that will be a defining moment for those who survive. How we respond in those first few moments will make us either debased human survivors or heroic helpers of Humanity. Yes, we could degenerate into anarchy and death, or we could be sacrificing of our time, talent, and treasure and help first our families to become a little more secure, then venture out and help our friends. Some of them will help their family and friends. More and more will help the stranger: the old woman on the block that no one talks to, the lonely guy who's never seen on the street, the poor kid who shows up with bruises, etc. Those people will need help, just as our families and friends do.

Yes, in a perfect world, all people would prep and have not only skills, seed, and supplies, but they'd be willing to share and teach some. We can't expect people to be entirely noble with so much uncertainty, but some people in history have helped widows and orphans and the lonely.

Even the ex-cons traveled out West for a new life on the Frontier and made themselves whole again. People can change. We did, after all, didn't we? Our shameful past indiscretions that we feel guilt about, made us change. Some of them will too, especially if they feel more secure and hopeful.

Not everyone of us is a demon inside. If you watch films, then you'd be lead to believe that everyone in America is criminal inside, will commit adultery, will be violent, all of which will happen if the veneer of civilized behavior falters for a moment. Nonsense! In truth, while people make mistakes, they don't often become demons from the loss of a job, the temptation of a new lover, the chance to even the score when no one is looking.

Be optimistic. Share a crust of bread if the collapse comes. Yes, a crust of bread may only help a little, and may subtract a little from your food stores. No, you can't feed a Horde of hungry people. Can you rise to the occasion, help one person, and be good anyway when so much evil is happening? I think most of you will. You only doubt yourself and others because you've been lead to believe that will happen.

The more you prepare, the more you have a chance to make it. If you prep well, then you can do more and have a defining moment when you really made a difference. Be a shaman: a teacher, a listener, a craftsman, an artisan, a historian, a healer, a leader, a wise woman. We need more of them, for only if we have them, can we hope to rebuild communities.

In addition to my concerns about motivating others around me, i am most fearful of the entitled attitude that several individuals (i am in connection to) possess. I, personally, am of the mentality that you should not expect anything, if you did not do anything to achieve/obtain it. I wouldn't expect some outside force to save me or my family from a dangerous situation. That is why i am investing my energies and limited resources towards preparing, however much possible. I intend on using your approach to informing my extended family and such, as, they haven't taken me seriously, thus far. Like i said before, there is only so much one person can accomplish by themselves. Hoping i can generate comraderie soon. thanks again for all your wisdom!

In addition to my concerns about motivating others around me, i am most fearful of the entitled attitude that several individuals (i am in connection to) possess. I, personally, am of the mentality that you should not expect anything, if you did not do anything to achieve/obtain it. I wouldn't expect some outside force to save me or my family from a dangerous situation. That is why i am investing my energies and limited resources towards preparing, however much possible. I intend on using your approach to informing my extended family and such, as, they haven't taken me seriously, thus far. Like i said before, there is only so much one person can accomplish by themselves. Hoping i can generate comraderie soon. thanks again for all your wisdom!

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7091719

Motivating others

When deciding to motivate people, the first thing we have to do is look at our inner desire to motivate people. Why do we wish to motivate someone? In this case, it's a desire to see them thrive and survive. We want them to continue to live in the face of a serious threat.

Most people don't believe in serious threats. We must ask ourselves, "Is there really a serious threat, or am I over reacting?" Carefully evaluate what you believe is a serious threat, and then find evidence of that threat. Most of the time, people won't listen to evidence. It's easy to ignore it by focusing on distractions. Still it's important to learn about threats and find authoritative issues.

Some threats are scarier than others, but often those are far less plausible than more common ones. Think of the most common ones in your area, and focus on them first. These are much more persuasive. Let's say you live in a tornando or hurricane or earthquake zone. If there's been recent activity, then it's fairly easy to discuss preparing for dealing with those emergencies, isn't it? It's then "prudence" which is a benign word, versus "preparing" which has become an emotionally laden word.

Frugality is a welcome word to someone who's older. Money is always tight. If you can demonstrate that eating less expensively leads to some benefit, then it's fairly easy to purchase items towards that reason. There should be a counter-balance in many cases i.e. a payoff.

Spouses/LoversBeing simplistic for sake of debate, many women have a deep inner desire for security and then affection. While people have high levels of comeliness in their youth, as they age, they feel less beautiful and society tells them they are less beautiful. This is a centering focus for their motivation for the future. Saying, "I want to help us save money in order to provide better for you. Here's my plan for "our" future together. I still want to take you out on "dates", make things special and romantic, and spoil you and care for you." This must be sincere. I guarantee it is persuasive and motivating.

Continuing to be simplistic for the sake of debate, many guys have a deep need for respect and affection. While they feel strong and full of piss and vinegar when young, and hence aggressive, as they age they feel the effects of age and loss of vitality. They feel that life has passed them by, and measure their worth in things to compensate. This is the centering focus for the future. Saying, "I'm glad you're my husband/boyfriend. When you do ____, I really respect your hard work. The skill you have in doing ____ makes me respect you. It makes me more affectionate. I feel very taken care of and want to be with you when you do that." This must be sincere. I guarantee it is persuasive and motivating.

Extended FamilyIt's very difficult to motivate extended family unless you see them often. They have their own lives and issues and security or lack thereof.

For me, the most persuasive times are when we're watching something, some video of say the Alaka Experiment, or Frontier House. See previous postings. In those videos, families and strangers are trying to cope with a shared experience which revolves around coping with hardship. When watching something like that, it's natural to discuss, "What would you do? How would we handle it if we banded together? What mistakes do you see being made? Who seems wise? How does watching this make you assess your own abilities?"

In motivating others, you plant a seed. By using multiple modalities (many different kinds of arguments), one of those seeds will fall upon the fertile soil of the listener's mind. One idea will be more persuasive than others. It depends upon the person.

Some people are interested in some aspect of a phenomena and it's a passion. It could be cooking, herbalism, animals, hiking, camping, carpentry, hunting, fishing, bushcraft, gardening, etc. All of these activities feed into preparedness easily. Finding some aspect of their passion and them seeing the importance of it later in a collapse will help them see their role in the future. Make sense?

Some people are very occupation driven. Because of their day-to-day work activities, they see issues with a disaster. Any doctor or nurse understands the issues of being trapped in a hospital and not allowed to leave in a pandemic. Any military or ex-military especially the ones who've seen active conflict will understand the issues of coping with a disaster and violence. Law enforcement officers understand the real issues of security, and the facade of safety that's created in order to have normalcy. Think along those lines and understand their professions and how they could be heroic in a disaster as a result. Most people want to be heroes, and the chance to be one easily motivates them.

Many people are spiritual. It will manifest in some unique way. Whatever their beliefs, if you come to understand what they believe, then you can use this to help tie in their beliefs to preparedness. They often go hand-in-hand. Some aspect of their religious writings echoes the same ideas of preparing for a secure future.

Some people will desire to learn how to do things. Spending time with them in a sincere way to achieve friendship will also mean a chance to discuss with them preparedness. If you know skills, then many times people want to know them too. Use this as a chance to not only teach one, but also teach the other.

Look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Need: [link to en.wikipedia.org] It's a pyramid of needs that people have based upon their level of security and skills. Where do your friends and family fit upon that pyramid? This will tell you what words to use, what things will most motivate them, and how to best communicate to them.

The things they say, will reveal their inner desires. Most often people have a strong desire to explain themselves and their actions. They have hopes and fears. If one sits around a campfire and drinks a hot beverage or an adult beverage, and then is silent for a moment and still, then usually they'll begin to tell you those things. It's human nature. We want listeners mostly, and only occasionally counselors. If you're interested in motivating them then in those moments, you'll learn their heart's desire. Then use those times to explain how the things I teach may help them achieve that desire.

We must always judge our own motivations. They should be pure if we're being altruistic. The goal is to help others, not bend them to our will. We never have all the Truth, and the way we understand Truth is by meeting others and reasonably discussing it. That means risking intimacy and understanding that they might persuade us instead.

In a healthy discourse, it's easy to get passionate about our beliefs. If one does that too quickly, then it's likely that someone is focused on their own needs and passions and that they don't align. If that happens, then the intellectual discourse shuts down, and we're ruined the chance to motivate them.

If both people are passionate, and they don't align, there's a good chance of conflict. They it becomes an argument and perhaps heated and ruined...perhaps for a long time.

You won't be able to motivate many people, not unless your life is perfectly in aligned with your beliefs and actions. You won't be able to motivate many people because they're distracted by their own passions and needs.

Christians often get frustrated because they think they're supposed to convert others. I believe that we're supposed to share the Gospel, but not beat people up over the head with it. They use odd tactics like talking about the Afterlife. Worse they talk about Hell. That persuades only the foolish and fearful.

It may very well be that non-Christians are more spiritual that ourselves, have better skills, communicate better, are more considerate, etc. Don't discount others because of a difference in belief systems.

In a post-collapse world, many survivors will come from diverse beliefs. The goal is not conversion, it's rebuilding community and finding rational reasons for staying together.

Most of us possess an entitled attitude. We've achieved a level of success, and then because we have it, we expect our lives to be a certain way because of our level of achievment.

Let's say that we have a diversity of diet. We eat very unusual things: rich salads of unusal ingredients, rare tropical fruits (like oranges, pineapple, banana), produce out of season from our surroundings (because it can be shipped), meat that's always available (veal, lamb, pork, beef, seafood of all kinds, turkey, chiken) despite never having to raise it.

We shop for clothing that requires slave labor in foreign countries. It used to be that we produced textiles within our respective nations. Now we even have children working to produce shoes and clothing for wages that are shocking.

We expect to move every seven years and usually to a better more expensive home. This is the national average in the USA.

We purchase a car so we have something current, and often purchase it new regardless of the fact that it immediately depreciates before leaving the car lot. We lease cars that we can't afford.

Many of us have lost their jobs. We feel entitled to a certain level of wealth regardless, and when that isn't realistic, we expect the government to take care of us. We reasonably expect part of that since we paid into unemployment insurance, but then when the length of time passed, politicians used that desire to create longer and longer periods of unemployment insurance in order to gain our votes.

Because survival is the base of Maslow's Hierarchy of Need, since we can't afford our food, we expect the government to provide us food. We paid taxes, so we expect in return that the government will assist us when we no longer are generating taxes. As that continues, then we expect for politicians to extend food stamp benefits, and they're perfectly willing to extend it, though the cost is deficit spending of our money.

We all have a sense of entitlement. It's not isolated to one group or another. We have expectations based upon our ethical belief systems, investment in a relationship, our race, our spiritual beliefs, our politics, our countries, etc.

People in the USA have very high expectations about what's the minimum people should have to survive. Whe think that we should have medical care so we can get older and older and live into such decrepitude that the expense rises enormously. We want inexpensive drugs to deal with many issues that we cause ourselves in a brutal kind of self-sabotage. Even though surgeries are terribly expensive, we think that everyone should be able to have them regardless of wealth.

In a perfect world, we could have those things, but at no time in history have people had those things. The true cost of having this kind of entitlement will be enormous, because any government that can provide can also expect that you in turn follow their rules to get it.

It's a farce.

Real health and security cannot be issued by a government. Mostly they come from the people learning skills and storing up supplies to create wealth. It comes from owning property and when times get bad, selling that property to pay our bills.

All people will decline in health as they age based upon their genetic profile, their level of fitness, their diet, and their motivation and discipline. No one is immortal. It is reasonable to expect that if one doesn't take care of themselves for them to decline.

Because people are inherently selfish, most people don't care if others are suffering. I wish they did. People can be briefly motivated to alleviate suffering, and then after a few days return to their normal patterns. As time goes on, they may even resent the suffering.

If you desire a world with those kinds of entitlement, then you'd have to permanantly motivate people to be altruistic. The only other alternative is a restrictive government that enforced its will upon the People. I wouldn't trust that kind of government, would you?

Thank you for taking the time to write those very insightful and thorough responses! It has given me, food for thought! I suppose every person does feel entitled to live! LOL! But, in all seriousness my griping stems from the fact that I have expressed my concerns tirelessly, which has fallen on deaf ears, so to say. From my own 'entitled' selfish perspective, i don't feel inclined to help those who refuse to help themselves or to better the situation. Does that make me a crazy person for feeling this way? I would only assume it is rational for someone to feel that way if presented with this problem. I wouldn't mind pooling resources if everyone involved were willing to contribute their time and energy to assisting this plan. But as it exists currently, no one is in the right 'frame of mind' to do so. So, i am left feeling duped and inundated with the sole task of prepping or taking 'prudence', alone. But, oh my! If and when SHTF...everyone will start to scramble! Like i said, originally, i barely even know anything about survivalist skills/etc! How could i possibly mentor?! I hope that if/when things do get bad, you and your family are protected. If only more were willing to help one another out, and to share skills and knowledge, this world could be a better place. I reflect on my life and others lives and think of how much time has been and continues to be wasted on consumerism and passive entertainment. It is such a shame that it has come down to survival to motivate myself, and other novices out there to realize such a thing! Thanks again! Hoping everyone has more time! :)

It will take an enormous amount of effort, time, and resources to grow crops from seed to harvest. I hope you realize that based upon the postings on planing a garden, picking our heirloom seeds, weeding, watering without city water systems, composting, etc. It will take a lot of work, and will always mean more than one person working in order to raise enough food for the tribe, whatever the size of the tribe... even if only three people.

Most of you are used to effortlessly acquiring food from grocery stores. You're used to getting strawberries year round. You have very unrealistic ideas about diet diversity, and why not? You can eat from frozen, canned, dehydrated, freshly prepared, or just from the garden produce on any day of the week if you have adequate funds.

After only working three days in the garden, and feeling the muscle soreness from exerting yourself and unused muscles, and feeling lower back and knee pain from the grinding of cartilage against bone, each gardener begins to feel a sense of ownership in the garden. That soreness goes away some, and is replaced with vigor and strength. The seedlings come up and we see life renewed in the microcosm environment that we ourselves have fashioned. Spiritual folks understand the beginnings of Genesis in much more powerful a way.

Some creatures will begin taking a tax or toll upon our efforts. They will find the fresh greens, newly leaves and stalks, and begin consuming them. You'll react with horror. That produce now that you took for granted every day of your lives before the collapse will now be your lifeline.

In order to cope, a prepper has transformed into a homesteader. Their lands and home become their castle and fiefdom. You'll repel the enemy pests by using time-worn creative strategies to prevent their increasing numbers, manage what few remain, and or destroy them outright.

Allies

BeesFirst, not every bug is bad. Those annoying bees are pollinators. Theoretically you know this, and yet their buzzing will become a nuisance as they dart around in their haphazard flight. If lucky, you'll see bees dance. The dance tells other bees where the food source is.

If you look closely, you'll see their pollen sacs. They collect some of the pollen as they move about collecting nectar from flowers. Pollen is a product of the anthers, what would be the male counterpart in humans. That pollen is just like sperm, and the bees moving around results in cross-pollination, and this strengthens the plant. That pollen enters the sticky portion of the pistil, the wet sticky female counterpart in humanity, and the result is new life as seed and eventually as fruit (or vegetables).

Because bees like and need water, if there's a sweet drink or a glass of water around, then they'll take a drink. It's common sense. That means a gardener will not have open drinks outside from them to sip from. The bee will enter the soda can or cup and then you get an accidental sting.

Bees only accidentally sting you, at great cost to themselves, for when they do, it actually disembowels them. They definitely don't want to do it, and unless Africanized killer bees, they won't do it unless threatened and protecting themselves or the hive. Since some people are allergic to bee stings, and might not know it, care must be taken. You will occasionally get stung if you garden long enough, but chances are it won't be a bee sting. In many many decades, I've been stung by a bee three times. Once as a child rolling in clover while they were harvesting nectar, once from picking up what I thought was a dead bee (it was dying from the cold), and once from an accidental sting from working in the garden.

The bee population has been declining, and we don't definitively know why. It could be mites, pollution, electromagnetic waves interfering with navigation, pesticides, who knows? The important things is, we need pollinators and honey. If we don't have them, then we have to do all that work ourselves. It could mean fanning plants with homemade fans to spread the pollen at certain times, or using a fine brush to carry specific pollens to the same species of plants if there are not enough bees around.

Bees like certain plants very much like basswood trees, clover, elderberry, hazelnut,lavender, milkweed, mint, etc. These are plants that are useful for us by reasons previously mentioned in some (not all) postings. We want to plant things that attract bees and also that produce on their own products that we need ourselves. Use synergy as much as possible. Helping bees helps ourselves.

LadybugsLadybugs are for some bizarre reason considered harmless. Most insects are harmless. I guess people think they're cute, and so no one fears them. You may have witnessed a wonderful sight before. They've hatched and matured enough that they take flight from a concealed location, often behind a crack in some wood, and suddenly there are a multitude of ladybugs.

Ladybugs eat aphids. These are a kind of insect that some ants actually raise as livestock. The ants stroke the aphids, and then a kind of fluid like milk is expressed and this can be consumed by the ant. The fluid came from drinking from plant material and causes a loss of turgor pressure in the plant from the wound. We don't want aphids, so we want ladybugs in our garden.

Preying mantisA preying mantis is a wonderful but undiscriminating predator that eats other insects. It will lay an egg case that looks like this:

It is one of our most powerful allies. Collecting egg cases is a good idea, but only in tightly sealed containers that you open on occasion for air. When it gets warm, you place them outside so they populate your garden. It's a sin to kill a mantis. They are mighty warriors. Actually a system of kung fu was created based upon studying their attack methods. If you're not careful, and have them inside, then you might suddenly have 400 preying mantises roaming your home. Not fun. I actually know a biologist professor who accidentally released them this way in a collage.

Use allies to do your work for you. There are more of them than your gardening team.

There are two quasi-allies in a garden: spiders and wasps. Both are aggressive. Both eat insects. Both will be prevalent. Wasps like to eat spiders and caterpillars. Spiders like whatever creature falls into their webs as long as they can control them.

The issue is they can sting you as well. While a bee can sting once, you only need to remove the stinger left behind (if at all). A spider bite can be poisonous, but usually it only leaves a raised area. The swelling can be considerable!A wasp can sting many many times, as anyone who's ever had a wasp get trapped within their pant legs can attest! They also are fierce and will sting repeatedly thinking they can get you. It'll really hurt versus a bee sting. Then it'll itch like crazy. No thanks!

Some spiders and wasps should be tolerated within reason. If they become a nuisance, then destroy spider nests, and they'll move along to a more serene location. Paper wasp nest can be knocked down when there's a chill in the air, covered with home-made hot pepper spray or water, and then eliminated by removal. Use a little common sense. Mud daubers will leave clay nests placed under porches in areas with high spider population. If there's no spiders, they move along to more prolific hunting grounds. Some are almost alienlike in their bright blue coloring.

Home many homeschool lessons can you make from the above material? Always teach your children valuable information like this which is also practical. There are lots of resources on the web. You also will have ample opportunity to see physical specimens. If you have a cheap magnifying glass or better a microscope (some can be very inexpensive), then your children and you can become amateur naturalists.

But, in all seriousness my griping stems from the fact that I have expressed my concerns tirelessly, which has fallen on deaf ears, so to say.

From my own 'entitled' selfish perspective, i don't feel inclined to help those who refuse to help themselves or to better the situation. Does that make me a crazy person for feeling this way?

I wouldn't mind pooling resources if everyone involved were willing to contribute their time and energy to assisting this plan.

Like i said, originally, i barely even know anything about survivalist skills/etc

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7091719

We all think we have the right idea, and so when our ideas are not accepted, we feel wronged. Instead I would encourage you to find a collaborative approach of working with people and understanding that you don't possess the Truth.

If you don't make the first move to help in an unselfish way, then how will community ever begin? Didn't some people in your history help you even though there was nothing in it for them? Doesn't that mean that since you have gratitude, you might help a stranger following their example?

If you've ever worked on a community garden, many people will help the first week when it's exciting, and then as the routine chores of weeding, mulching, water, pest control, come along...less and less people show up. Then more people come back around harvest time, but sadly often food doesn't get picked and simply rots on the vine or gets woody instead of lots of delicious baby veggies.

Usually a "ramrod" will come along and that person takes charge and realizes that a lot of people will do something but have no passion. In Nature, certain creatures have special abilities, and they focus their attention on doing that. A mud dauber makes great clay containers for their young, but can't make paper. Vice versa, a paper wasp makes great paper, but can't mold clay. Not everyone has talents, but a shaman broadcasts various talents and teaches, and so that falls on some fertile soil and some people learn it.

Someone must be willing to roll up their sleeves and be serene and gently teach. Not everyone is meant to teach, and being a dedicated learner is a good thing. Many people will mentor you in a talent if you are patient, polite, ask good questions, listen, and be grateful. Then it's up to you to pass it on.

There are so many resources today on preparedness and bushcraft and homesteading. It's really staggering and I'm in a state of awe at the tireless altruism of most preppers. Those are the kind souls who really make up the movement, not these bizarro wackjobs that are on tv. They're the ones categorizing plants to make dyes from natural materials. They're the ones who painstakingly photograph and video herbs and research illness and symptoms and how to prepare a poltice or a tincture.

Use the links to open the doorway of your mind and begin learning. No matter what your age, 7-90, you can learn these skills.

PesticidesIf an insect is dealt with when younger, the damage they cause is minimized. Many times you'll see either eggs or young. Using something like a spray with oil in it will help to smother them, but oil will be hard to come by post-collapse. The easiest way to deal with them is either by using dichotomous earth or by using sprays with hot pepper juice in them.

Dichotomous earth is made up of the remnants of microscopic algae. The shards of their skeletons are so sharp that they cut certain pests like most insects because it cuts their exoskeleton. It also works well on fleas, cockroaches, and slugs. It will kill bees, so none should be applied to flowers.

The insects can't adapt, so they die. Pesticides poison, but some survive, and this immunity is passed to new generations.

Hot pepper juice, garlic, onions are things which naturally repel bugs. If you mix this with a little soap, then it will stay on the plant and not rinse off easily. Castille soap is typical and made from olive oil. You won't have olive oil, but you might be able to grow rapeseed oil (canola) and this has been previously discussed. . If one had some inexpensive liquid soap, you could use it too, but my guess is that you'll use that soaps for cleaning since it's more difficult to replicate. It all depends upon what you can trade for as well as how well you prep your supplies.

Making Castille Soap

If you didn't have oil, then you could merely mix in some some water, a small amount of lye from wood ash, plus the ingredients below: [link to www.organicgardening.com]

CollectionOne easy way to deal with pests is removal. Simply collect and smash the bugs in a container. In some cases, some of the insects may be edible, and in a collapse, you won't waste protein. I've preciously mentioned eating june bugs, grasshoppers, and wood lice. All have a decent flavor and wood lice (rolypoly bugs) have a shrimp-like flavor. Grasshoppers especially are useful as a major protein source. It might be wise to actually raise them as a kind of livestock. Their bodies are dried and then crushed into a non-offensive protein powder, and this can boost the nutritional content of soups or could be added to make something to lather on bread. I know it all sounds weird, but many cultures eat insects. [link to www.utne.com]

Slugs can be eaten. They were in war-time Japan by boiling them. Personally I really like snails and garlic. That's a fine meal, but they contain parasites, so this means thorough cooking. I believe I made a post on eating them. Again, these could be raised on scraps and deliberately cultivated.

Earthworms

Earthworms are not pests, but incredibly helpful composters that aerate the soil. A healthy soil with loads of humus will be full of them. Then they'll deposit eggs and increase in numbers. Since earthworms also provide valuable calories and protein and were common food for the First People, they should be cultivated as livestock either to help the garden or to consume when hungry. See a previous posting on that.

These will be the majority of ways in which you control pests in your beloved garden. If you don't then your yields will really suffer and your family will grow hungrier.

You all will be very hungry all the time from November-June. That's just being honest. You'll be full and satisfied only if you have many many supplies and have learned how to trap well. Hunting will be very hit and miss. Some fishing will be possible, but given the huge depth of the drought, we must expect a drop in game and fish. Fish especially are restocked into streams by hatcheries. Those won't be around anymore. Trapping will quickly fade too.

Comprehensive lecture on the subject. A good gardener will purchase some supplies and not try to MacGuyver it comepletely. Otherwise you have to spend a lot of time recreating something that approximates the pest control.

Larger pests

Mice and rats will be an issue. If you have cats, they won't but then you have cat feces in your garden which I've discussed causes toxoplasmosis gondii. That can be worse.

Mice don't like mint, but only a crazy person would plant mint in a garden as it takes over and is difficult if not impossible to eradicate.

Other creatures like snakes eat a lot of mice. Don't kill a garden snake unnecessarily. Sure copperheads must be killed, rattlers too, but most snakes are not bad. They also make a good meal if made into a stew because then the meat comes off their many bones. Otherwise you're scraping the meat off with your teeth which is unpleasant for most.

Mice of course can be eaten. Previously I've discussed making a bucket trap with some bait. If you had a dog or cat, this would make a fine meal for them. See precious posts.

Many creatures don't like human hair. It's a repellant particularlly to rabbits. Having rabbit traps around the garden is just good thinking as it's decent protein as long as the rabbits are healthy. Maybe you end up breeding them?

You'll probably see gophers at some point. Gophers eat grubworms, the white fat worms you will find when tilling up the soil. The only reason gophers stay around is there's enough grubs for them to eat. Pre-collapse you can spread an agent that kills the grubs, and hence rid yourself of the gophers.

They make spring-loaded gopher traps that spike them, but this will contaminate their meat with high amounts of bacteria. You might cook this for a long time as a meal for pets. I wouldn't eat a gopher that was harvested that way.

You could try trapping them by regular means. Some peopel "noodle" for them, which is reaching in and grabbing them, but this would be very hit or miss. You could get a nasty bite. Some people actually eat them, and I can't think of a reason not to.

If you garden, don't be surprised to see foxes, racoons, squirells, opposums, and deer come around. All of these are good things to hunt...and you will.

Racoons are most frequently seen in the evening and especially if there's some water around, they'll come down and look around your garden.

If there's mice around, then you'll hear and then see owls in the trees. You'll most likely see a red-tailed hawk sitting on a fence sitting still and waiting to pounce on mice.

Deer are very attracted to seed and salt. Some people deliberately place bait(cracked corn) and salt blocks to either just enjoy them in the Autumn (sometimes Summers) or hunt them.

The more you garden, the larger it gets each successive year. You get braver and more diverse. This experimental natural grocery store is not unnoticed by bird, reptiles, and mammals. You'll attract them, because you're providing them with appetizers.

With birds, people try reflective aluminum plates, but honestly a lot of birds like shiny things. I dunno about the effectiveness of it, but sudden movement on strings will probably alarm them. Nets can be made from local plants (see previous postings) and these can cover plants when their fruit or veggies are getting ripe. This helps some, and you have to watch for it, because a flock coming in can harvest a lot quickly.

Likewise, in a post-collapse, a lot of thieving will go on by humans. People will get hungry and they'll decide that those ears of corn or tomatoes are just about right. (Bring in the tomato plants! It's an ongoing GLP joke like moran).

This means that you've got to decide how to handle that post-collapse. For me, community gardening is the way to ultimately handle it, because then it's a theft of everyone's food, and probably will have severe results like no food rations for a week for members stealing from members.

What's more likely is hungry and almost feral children coming in looking for food. You should expect this and some vagrants. That's what happened in the Great Depression. Lots of times people wandered in, even some seniors getting a little senile and forgetting this wasn't their garden. They're hungry and so in those days, when caught they ended up chopping some firewood and maybe got some water and a peanut butter or lard sandwich. It's true, lard sandwiches were common fare.

If it's a bad collapse, very terrible issues could arise from food theft. I'd rather not go there.

If a community gets re-established, vagrant survivors will end up on your doorstep, and the community will have to decide if they'll help some of them. I think they will, and I think YOU will.

The only way you can is based upon the amount of supplies versus what they offer in terms of skills. There's bound to be things like several folks show up, but only one family is accepted. There will be so many hungry mouths to feed, and to even accept one group of four individuals will be very magnanimous indeed. Part of it is the value of that rare skill versus hungry mouths of so many that come with hiring or accepting that person.

Earlier postings deal with very simple rope making. You collect some material that is fibrous, and then by taking two strands of it, any seven year old can be taught to twist-away, then turn out a workable piece of twine. It isn't very strong, and so that kind of rope is for very tempory usage.

A much strong rope is made of three strands:

This method requires a little more dexterity, and chances are that any nine year old clever girl can make it, and some boys. For whatever reason, it seems like girls exhibit more dexterity earlier, but at some point some of either gender have the knack for it.

If you had a lot of fibrous material, then after making these primary pieces, then you could make a real rope.

This would require some basic mechanical knowledge, some orgnization to harvest (foraging) the materials or grow it, some wood and tools to carve the spacer, the pole for stretching, the posts for holding it, etc.

Making a net isn't difficult, the issue is making it hold up in water. It takes times to weave, but it's a basic netting knot over and over. [link to duo.irational.org]

PRINT THAT OUT. You'll make nets for fishing, for covering trees with fruit, for gathering things like a cooking pot that's covered with soot, etc.

Meditate upon this: the more you prep, the less you have to make these things. At some point, things break and you must make them. You have to have supplies and skills. Since you learn things, people will ask for them. You can wear yourself out unless you teach them too.

Here's a video from Patriot Nurse on youtube. She puts out great videos. You could really learn a lot from watching her videos and should make notes and even copy them for later viewing.

Contagion, particularly in Winter, and also sucessive waves will be major issues post-collapse. Watching Hurricane Sandy intelligence reports shows us the kinds of things that can happen, and how to best prepare and adjust what we have prepared.

Among all of the many things I could teach you, I'm thinking about a realistic plan a family might use to bug out from an American city. I want you to think about all of the issues that would be involved, and why you need to plan now for such an action. Is anyone interested in that? If so, I may write something from the perspective of many families departing from different areas and encountering issues.

In another thread, someone is discussing crocheting tampons post-collapse. While I applaud their creativity, I don't think it's a good idea.

Today we have a very high potential for cleanliness. We have a high availability of soap, hot water, clean water in general that one can pull from almost anywhere, and the time and security of acquiring them. This will NOT be the case post-collapse.

Antibacterial soapIn some cases we have antibacterial soap that usually operate in one of two ways. One way is to have either Triclosin which perhaps is a bactericide for dealing with MRSA (the evidence is still out) because it interferes with fatty acid synthesis. The other methodology is using tetrasodium EDTA which disrubts metals needed for bacteria, and so they die. Both kinds of soap and their reputed mechanism of action are under review.

Even if they work, the way that bacteria operate is powerful. Some bacteria are not killed by these agents. Because bacteria counts are enormously high over an area (think millions of them or more) then some survive and multiply. Then bacteria can also pass on genes to other strains as well. In time, stronger and stronger bacteria are being generated.

AntibioticsIf you've noticed, there's major concern among medical professionals about antibiotic resistance. These tools are utilized to deal with bacteria. They work by many different mechanisms of action, however again some bacteria survive. Often they're blended with other antibiotics, and so then the bacteria must deal with that too.

People take antibiotics too often. Because it takes time to culture a bacteria, a physician will prescribe an antibiotic and guess the strain that might be causing the illness. Since many different kinds of bacteria could result in similar symptoms, they often use broad spectrum antibiotics that deal with different kinds. However this creates superstrains of resistant bacteria.

In addition, if the antibiotic doesn't treat the correct bacteria, the patient gets sicker and may shed the bacteria in the general population. People think a magic pill fixes them. No, it doesn't. They often are still infectious.

Still other times a person has a virus. We have very few medicines which can disrupt viral infections and antibiotics don't do anything to kill them. Still people demand a pill, so some weak or kind physicians prescribe them to cover their ass (we are a litigious society). These end up creating stronger and stronger bacteria that naturally occur in our bodies. It's a very bad plan for dealing with a threat that isn't affected by the treatment and imparts strength to what may be benign or low count concurrent bacteria within our bodies.

Routine bacteriaBecause we're relatively healthy, at any one time our bodies have surface and interior bacteria. If we get weaker due to malnutrition, sleep deprivation, injury, or stress, then our immune system can't cope as well, and these “passengers” then end up making us sick.

Our skin has many kinds of bacteria that live on it, but the skin is not broken save for tiny microabrasions, and these heal. Whenever you shave, have you noticed a pimple forming somewhere in that area? I'll bet a lot of women (and some men) have especially noticed this under the arms, on the legs, and often in the vaginal area. This is chiefly Staph aureus.

The bacteria is around the surface of the skin because it likes to hide in the nose, under the arms, in the vagina, in the naval, etc. On overweight folks, it may hide in folds of the skin.

Tampons

Tampons are fine to use under pristine conditions. They're ideal sometimes since you can place one, and like stoppering a cork, they stop the flow of menstruation.

After a collapse, a tampon might be a very good way to temporarily stop bleeding of other kinds of wounds too. Consider that, and think, “Do I really want to use them up for monthly use?” Sterile dressings will be few and far between, but many people have tampons in their homes.

Under collapse conditions, you might be able to daily clean hands and face, but you might not. It all depends upon your level of preparedness and supplies. Even if well supplied, there will be areas without water or “iffy” water. You might only be able to do an all-over wash once a week, and even then it will be abbreviated. Using a tampon under those conditions is a very very bad idea.

Tampons are made under sterile conditions. They're made of specially treated fibers that are probably autoclaved (heated at very high temperatures with high pressure), then packaged under sterile conditions. This is done to produce a high quality product for internal use.

What about your crocheting yarn? It wasn't made for this use. It initially was created somewhere for exterior use as clothing. Post-collapse, it may be created by sheering wool from sheep under routine conditions in pens or outside under unknown conditions. It is created by hand use under far less hygienic conditions. It will certainly contain high levels of bacteria just from being handled even if you wash your hands frequently.

Even if you soaked the material in a chemical agent, then unless you could pack it under pristine conditions, then it wouldn't remain sterile. Bacteria will always be found in the air carried by dusts.

It's a very bad idea, but I encourage people to think about clever ways to create things post-collapse.

Toxic shock syndrome is a condition that is caused by some strains of Staph bacteria, but multiple subsets of it can cause it, not just Staph aureaus but chiefly Staph pyogenes. Toxic shock-like syndrome is caused by some strains of Step bacteria.

It can be caused by tampon use; that's what people have heard about, however it can be caused by someone who's been pregnant and attempting to deal with it. Someone might have treated a wound, and left the packing material inside, and the dressing wasn't changed. It can happen after a burn and dealing with dressings. It can happen post-surgery. It can happen on the skin. Don't think just tampon use.

Symptoms:Fever eventually leading to chills. Confusion leading to delirium. Redness in mucosa areas. Nausea that leads to vomiting. Headaches. Diarrhea. (Staph aureas and Step can become become internalized and cause stomach flu symptoms). A tell-tale sign of it is it breaks the desmisomes that attach the skin in layers and the skin peels off. It can cause severe skin loss, and then the patient can't control body temperature and they die from severe infections from many bacteria (analogous to a very deadly burn).

This will progress and lead to organ failure of the liver and kidneys. Why? The kidneys are under high pressure from blood flow filtration. The liver is also a filter for the blood too.

50% will die if they have extraordinary medical procedures done under sterile conditions with lots of personnel and medications. In a collapse, expect most to die.

This means wound dressings must be created as sterile as possible using iodine scrubs of the area and as best sanitation and hygiene as possible. Then the dressings must be changed as often as reasonably possible too.

Many wounds introduce dirt, dust, foreign objects, and naturally bacteria into the wound. Packing material for wound treatment may seal in these substances and cause infections.

Prevention is your main tool. Usually intravenous penicillin and other beta-lactams are used as well as clindamycin. “The usually prescribed antibiotics are nafcillin, oxacillin, and first generation cephalosporin. Nafcillin or oxacillin (2 g q4h) is generally recommended. Vancomycin can be used in penicillin-allergic patients.” [link to emedicine.medscape.com]

You almost certainly won't have IV antibiotics, but you might have oral antibiotics, however time is of the essence to get in into their system as their blood supply has become septic (inundated with bacteria).

Most people who plan to bugout haven't planned their shelter. A shelter is the FIRST consideration to make following the rule of three. In any extreme situation you cannot survive for more than:3 minutes without air, 3 hours without shelter, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food.

All of these are provisionally based upon conditions. In Winter, three hours is a LONG time and hypothermia can easily kill you. It will certainly give you frostbite, and if happens to feet, then you're as good as dead because traveling is so reduced. See previous postings on hypothermia and dealing with frostbite.

Yes people survive frostbite today because of advanced medicine. In a collapse there won't be any medicine other than what YOU provide.

Most people don't use common sense when planning their clothing and shoes for dealing with bugging out. See previous postings on those topics. Many will have not broken in shoes for children, spouses, and themselves and this alone will end up injuring them, and perhaps killing them in the end.

If someone is sedentary, and it may be nigh impossible but has happened historically, then one can live up to three months under unusual conditions without food. It all depends upon core temperature... which means some sheltering was happening, obesity, weather, and a profound amount of luck (most likely mercy from the Source).

In Winter there are limited amounts of ways to make shelter. I've discussed shelter before either a short term debris hut (mostly in Autumn based upon high amounts of naturally occurring insulation and materials), digging in a shelter (requires hand tools, skill, lumber for a framework, intelligence, drainage issues), a snow shelter (intelligence, carbon monoxide issues, ability). See many previous postings on doing that.

For most people bugging out, if you're headed to a location, then most likely you're spending many nights out on the road and using a very light tent. Here's a link that describes the issues and the materials and styles to chose one. There are many kinds of tents, buy from a place that fits your budget and ability and fits YOUR GOALS. [link to www.rei.com]

For most people bugging out with no planned eventual location as an end goal, you will die attempting to vaguely get to safety.

It should be off road and camouflaged with an appropriate tarp that either copies the existing woodland pattern for that season or is pure white to blend in if snow is on the ground perhaps brown-black or green or straw colored based upon prevailing conditions. Many tents are bright colored for aesthetics and to locate it in the wild when tired and coming back to camp from the woodlands for visibility reasons. This is all bad in a collapse. Otherwise it will be seen and since millions may be bugging out and not prepared it will be a resource for them to steal. In effect, you'll become their store to get supplies or resupply.

You are NOT going to simply rough it. As my friends in New York say, “Forget about it.” NO NO NO. It takes a lot of practice to build a shelter successfully or find a sycamore tree (see previous postings) that will work. Even if you do, then it may rain, snow very hard, can't find firewood, blah blah blah.

A book is a good thing. A book in a backpack means you don't know how to do something perfectly. This is no time to be reading a book if bugging out. You need light to read, quite a bit, and this means giving away your position. Dumb, very dumb post-collapse. Don't imagine that you'll wing it.

Children can easily setup a tent with training. They also can build debris shelters. They can only do it based upon how well you teach them and much practice.

In Winter very few people work at their peak efficiently, but rather struggle, complain, and moan and groan and this noise carries for miles.

Most likely you're hurriedly hiking 13+ miles a day as a goal, but realistically five miles a day over elevated terrain and dealing with things like alder wood thickets, high grasses that you can't see through, attempting stealth, water crossings, all of which mean a commensurate reduction of speed. The amount of distance gained is based upon hunger, thirst, firewood, supplies, and looking for all three plus building shelter.

The preponderance of people hiking don't have much stamina and a non-hiker has almost no stamina.

It's very likely that avoiding detection will greatly reduce speed and change your direction and trail.

This means that you need to save time in evaluating a campsite based upon criteria:Defensibility, elevated position, cover, firewood (at odd times in a Dakota hole if possible to bury the evidence but may be impossible due to frozen ground. You may try to hide the fire with rock walls.), water resupply, foraging, tiredness, etc.

Having a tent eliminates much of that if it can be put up fast (only if trained and practiced, not theoretical), done quietly, and camouflaged.

If it's heavy, that's less food or water you can carry(half of your bugout gear weight), plus tools. Appalachian trail backpackers will cut their toothbrush handles off and burn book pages to lighten their packs. What do you think you'll do when not used or ill-trained to carrying a backpack and dealing with bruises and blisters?

If practiced and hardened elite hikers do something then halve or quarter what they can do and expect that out of yourself and strong family members.

Most people who begin to prepare think about bullets and handguns. I understand, they're worried about security. It's a reasonable first step, but not ultimately practical long term unless one could make gunpowder and bullets. It has it's place in preps, so please talk to an expert about that very complicated issue.

Better to balance your tool budget to include basic firearms, not an arsenal, and more hand tools. I like guns. They're practical and fun to shoot. Be honest and buy and use them for this purpose and not concentrating on them to a higher degree than their value in preparedness. A gun is a tool for specific purposes and is benign most of the time.

All people post-collapse will need to understand how to use tools and will hopefully have hand tools. Most people have power tools since they work faster, don't cause carpal tunnel syndrome, and require less skill. Since you won't have fuel for chainsaws, nor power for cordless drills (unless you have a solar trickle charger), then you sure better understand and have them.

A peavey is an invaluable tool for moving a log and also for lifting it. You'll at first begin collecting dead wood that falls from as debris from storms from trees. Later you'll harvest wood based upon clearing land and needing to make tools or to use as lumber. This means you have to cut it and lift it. Without a team of horses and a cart, it will be very difficult to relocate it. See later posts on how to do this.

Unless you're Samson, or an idiot, you're not going to hurt your back by lifting it with your strength. Chances are if you're the one cutting the wood, you're also providing for your family. If you get injured, they might starve or have no one to protect them.

Even if you had many people helping, they also could get injured. That's fairly normal for an inexperienced work team.

An axe or hatchet is a good way of cutting wood. There are many kinds. Here's a post on their types and uses.

Cutting down a tree is tough. It's not easy work, but why would we expect that something that took decades or even hundreds of years to grow be simple to chop down.

Let's assume the tree is already down. It fell down in a storm, perhaps a long time ago, and we want to harvest it. The actual cutting of a tree is technical based upon it's weight, likely direction of travel, and length.

There are reasons we mostly want to harvest trees this way. First we don't indiscriminately cut down something which is preventing soil erosion. It may be producing fruit or nuts or medicines. It take an enormous amount of time to replace it. It's producing oxygen.

The reason most people don't think about is accidents. Accidents happened all the time from a tree falling a different way because someone didn't or couldn't accurately predict how it was going to fall. Should they use poor technique, a tree can twist and then fall quite differently. The lay of the land will certainly affect the direction. The weight from moisture will change the fall, especially if icy. If you have an injured person as a cost of cutting down a tree then it can be horrific.

Trees are full of resin. When a new tree is cut down, the axes, hatchets, and saws slow down their cutting action from the natural fluids produced from the sap and the wood. It will dull them. Your saw will fill up faster from the resin and sawdust. The longer it seasons from being down for a time, the easier it is to cut. It also will get somewhat lighter, and in a post-collapse, that's definitely an issue.

Since the wood must season anyway, even after cutting, that's some consideration too for burning and other uses. It takes a long long time to dry naturally since it's raining. Unless you have heat, a good pole barn, and time to commit to cutting/hauling/stacking/drying you're not going to have lots of seasoned lumber to draw from.

What is the cutting tool made to do? Using it for something other than its intended use will almost always mean a much longer amount of time to commit to it, and time is your enemy. You can't make it up, and if you waste time, something else didn't get accomplished. Many a craftsman has had this conversation pre-collapse because there's not an endless amount of free-time for projects. Post-collapse, it's an even bigger issue as routine jobs will fill most days.

HatchetUse this for splitting kindling and cutting off a small limb. It works in a short controlled burst(s). It can also be used as a weapon. It can also be used to drive in small stakes (for many uses besides a tent). It's extremely valuable and probably carried often on your homestead post-collapse.

Forest AxeThis is a medium do-it-all tool. Wailing it to split wood is foolish and will break ax handles. Not a big deal today to replace, but still expensive. Try shaping an axe handle sometime, and then you'll protect that baby like it's fragile. You sure will hate breaking it post-collapse.

Felling AxeThis is a heavier axe meant for heavy duty work. I'll bet if you have to limit your budget (99% of us), you'll buy this and not a forest axe.

Splitting MaulHands-down easier for splitting wood, but useless for anything else. Only works well if the splitting log is elevated to by being placed waist high on a sturdy platform (like a tree stump). Committing to going through the wood, not just making contact, a satisfying split will result. It is Zen-like and relaxing and warms you up. On very cold days, splitting is more difficult if your woodpile is wet and gets icy. Foolish. Cover it with a tarp. Split a lot to save time on bad days. Bringing in wood means possible termite infestation.

They can be quite heavy. Pick one suited for your strength and swing. The length of one's arm adds leverage. On a side note, an old proof of manliness is lifting a sledgehammer with one hand and touching your nose with the head of it. The ones with dexterity, timing, some strength, and arm length can do it easier and better. The same principle applies with maul weight.

Most people don't make things or do construction around the home. Most people hire someone to do this. Post-collapse YOU will do that, or it won't get done or you will trade to get it done. Regardless you'll be helping because few construction jobs are one-person jobs.

In a collapse, you won't have all the tools you need. If you have a little know-how, you can make-do...but expect some issues from improperly doing techniques and a learning curve.

A stake is driven to create an anchoring point. Let's say you plant a sapling. You want to train it to grow, but it starts to grow toward the sun's arc through your area. It does this based upon the season (yep, solstice and equinox, there was a use for learning that in 4th grade). A rubberized section and a rope can be staked and this can be used to train the tree which way you want it to grow.

A stake if very strong and driven into the ground can act like a pulley. A rope is placed around it, and you can pull the rope against the stake to use physics to move more. A tree would be better, but may not be around.

A short stake in the ground may act as a strong bracing place to use your much larger leg muscles to resist a force or apply a place from which to push from securely.

A stake may anchor a rope or pole used to cook over a fire.

A stake may act as a hitching post for a boat.

A stake may anchor a tarp hastily pulled over a garden to protect from hail.

Large dogs can be very useful creatures post-collapse. A trained dog can pull a sled in winter. A dog can detect and scare a predator of multiple sizes. Many times, I've seen dogs act in intelligent and nurturing ways to protect weaker tribal members from copperheads and aggressive people. Dogs' sense of smell is far more acute, and so they will notice human odors as well as fire way before you detect it. They will hear sounds from far away. They will notice a change and alert you. PAY ATTENTION! They will communicate with you.

Most dogs are useless other than being companions post-collapse. I love dogs. They are wonderful creatures. Most people don't train their animals. This is odd since most dogs actually love to be trained and use their minds. They are naturally clever, but become dull and lifeless and fat because their owners think that they're human and treat them this way.

After coming inside from being outside, a dog will naturally groom themselves. It's important for you to check them carefully for ticks, especially deer ticks. These carry Lyme disease. Lyme disease eventually displays a bullshead pattern in most cases. The patient will exhibit declining cognition and lethargy and depression. It could be fatal post-collapse.

A bite from one can cause tick fever particularly if they bite around a human's head. It can causes paralysis. It's not something people are used to seeing. Good link by the way for detecting issues. [link to www.merckvetmanual.com]

The most likely issues of contagion from zoonotic means from dogs is worms. Dogs lick places that you don't want to think about. They roll in dead animals when those are present. They will eat carrion when hungry. You must be careful and watchful of your pets behavior. [link to www.2ndchance.info]

Tapeworms, hookworms, and pinworms are those ones were concerned with. Most humans by age four have had worms, but no one knew. After a collapse, this will be a very serious issue due to lack of hygiene. Diatomaceous earth that is edible is probably our best medicine here. They get heartworms but these are not typically transmitted in humans (still possible).

Giardia and toxoplasmosis gondii have previously been discussed as water bourne protozoa. Dogs can carry them, but usually cats carry the latter. Cryptosporidium is also an issue.

Dog fecal matter doesn't belong in the garden and I wouldn't compost it. Decaying dog fecal matter will seep into the ground and could contaminate a well. It definitely is a vector for the three protozoa based diseases above. It definitely will scare some small mammals away. If you smell it, it's NOT being dealt with properly and is a health risk.

All of the common bacteria responsible for skin infections and stomach flu can be carried by dogs. It most likely meant they drank bad water or ate raw meat or both.

Rabies is always an issue, especially after a collapse. Your dog may be current on vaccination, but remember that a lot of people won't do this, nor will they be able to feed their pets post-collapse, so feral dogs will be running around.

It's gruesome, but practical to realize that some people will eat dogs in such situations and they may easily become infected from improperly preparing or cooking them. The very same issues of handling meat and nicking digestive organs during butchering are the main issues.

If you love your dog, you'll rethink how to best train, feed, protect, and use preventative medication for your animal(s). They are wonderful companions and we want to protect them as our family members in SHTF scenario.

Note, it's entirely possible for a dog to carry equipment in a pack.

Think, a dog's coat is highly variable. If they're not covered up in Wintertime, then they certainly can get some infections, and some of these can be spread to humans. It's not unusual for a flu to jump species. Keep them warm and isolated if they exhibit flu-like symptoms.