“Papias (ca. A.D. 135) described Mark as Peter’s “interpreter,” a view found in other patristic writers. Petrine influence should not, however, be exaggerated. The evangelist has put together various oral and possibly written sources—miracle stories, parables, sayings, stories of controversies, and the passion—so as to speak of the crucified Messiah for Mark’s own day.”

Dr. Licona:

“I have a graduate student at HBU whose MA thesis I’m supervising. His research is virtually complete. He has consulted literature written by 204 critical scholars from 1965-Present on who wrote Mark, was it based primarily on Peter’s testimony, and when it was written. I can tell you at this point that the majority of critical scholars are saying that Mark’s primary source was Peter.”

I don’t really see a contradiction here. Everyone seems to agree there is evidence that Mark had a connection with Peter. The Catholic position is that it was not his only source. Dr. Licona says Peter was Marks primary source not his only source.

“That contradicts statements by Richard Bauckham, whom many evangelicals consider one of the best conservative NT scholars: “The argument of this book [Jesus and the Eyewitnesses]–that the texts of our Gospels are close to the eyewitness reports of the words and deeds of Jesus–runs counter to almost all recent scholarship. As we have indicated from time to time, the prevalent view is that a long period of oral transmission in the churches intervened between whatever the eyewitnesses said and the Jesus traditions as they reached the Evangelists [the authors of the Gospels]. No doubt the eyewitnesses started the process of oral tradition, but it passed through many retellings, reformulations, and expansions before the Evangelists themselves did their own editorial work on it.” p.
240”

It would be good to have his reasoning for this view of recent scholars.

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By: Gary https://ehrmanblog.org/is-the-bible-inspired-by-god-guest-post-by-evangelical-apologist-mike-licona/comment-page-3/#comment-98022
Sat, 30 Nov 2019 19:19:08 +0000https://ehrmanblog.org/?p=17159#comment-98022..He shall come with glory, accompanied by His angelic host, when also He shall raise the bodies of all men who have lived, and shall clothe those of the worthy with immortality, and shall send those of the wicked, endued with eternal sensibility, into everlasting fire with the wicked devils. And these things also have been foretold as yet to be, we will prove.

–Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapter 52

In this discussion with skeptics, evangelical scholar and apologist Michael Licona said this above:

“There are numerous Christian views on the actual nature of hell. The Dante sort of literal fire is not embraced by most Christian theologians today. This is not because they reject the biblical teaching. It’s because they seek to understand it within its cultural milieu.”

Notice that Dr. Licona does not clearly express his position on the issue of literal hell fire but he certainly insinuates that the traditional view of Hell is outdated and even ignorant. Many other conservative Christian apologists with whom I have engaged in discussion also hesitate to confirm or they outright deny the existence of literal hell fire and literal eternal punishment in hell fire for unbelievers. Why do they do this? I believe it is for one simple reason: They see how horribly unjust such a punishment is! How could their loving and just god do such a terrible thing? What crime deserves being burned alive forever and ever??

So to make their ancient supernatural tale more palatable to modern, civilized people, Christian apologists desperately attempt to hide this ugly facet of their belief, claiming that Jesus and the earliest Christians did not believe that the fires of hell were literal. So why did Justin Martyr think they were?? Conservative Christians trust Justin Martyr regarding everything else he says, so why reject his statements on this issue? Answer: to avoid an inconvenient truth. The early Christians believed that non-believers would suffer horrific eternal punishment in literal fire! And who did they get this from: Jesus of Nazareth!

While [Craig] Keener [the evangelical Christian author of “Miracles”] acknowledges that a non-supernatural explanation can account for many contemporary “miracle” claims, he also freely admits that he has a vested interest in demonstrating the authenticity of the New Testament. Of course, establishing that miracles are still reported today proves very little other than the fact that miracles are still reported, but so are ghost sightings, hauntings, and witch doctor healings just like they were in the ancient world.

…[Keener] never once conducted a thorough fact-finding investigation to corroborate modern miracle reports. His catalogue of miracles is often tantamount to accepting the word of his friends and acquaintances without any follow-up, though he admits that true believers routinely embellish or concoct self-validating miracle stories. Accepting people’s claims simply because they are otherwise good, honest, and sincere people ultimately borders on pure naivete.

Christopher: I have found that most evangelical Christian apologists go out of their way to avoid discussing the ” inner witness of the Holy Spirit” when they are in a discussion with skeptics. They know that using an “inner voice” as evidence for their beliefs comes off as “looney” to skeptics. Yet if you look at their websites or their sermons, when talking among themselves, their perceived communications with the spirit of an executed first century prophet are the PRIMARY evidence for their supernatural beliefs. Dr. Licona is working very hard to avoid discussing this subject even though you, I, and others have repeatedly raised this issue.

When you discuss “inerrancy”, Dr. Licona, would you kindly address your view of a literal Hell? You have stated further down in the comments that you do not know where Hell is located. I find this odd since you seem so certain of its existence and so certain that we non-believers are going to be sent to this place of torment and punishment. Many Bible authors infer that Hell is “down”. Here is the author of Ephesians:

But each of us was given grace according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it is said,

“When he ascended on high he made captivity itself a captive;
he gave gifts to his people.”

9 (When it says, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended[a] into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is the same one who ascended far above all the heavens, so that he might fill all things.) –Ephesians 4: 8-9

Gary: The author of Ephesians, a book which I am sure you believe to be an inspired, inerrant book of the NT, the Word of God, clearly believed that Jesus the Christ descended “into the lower parts of the earth”. The “underworld”. Most Christians believe that this refers to Jesus descending to Hell/Paradise immediately upon his death to liberate the righteous and take them to heaven.

With such a clear description of the location of Hell, why are you hesitant, Dr. Licona, to state that you believe that Hell, a massive dungeon full of billions of sinners, is located somewhere in the “lower parts” of the earth??

I’ve read them, but I haven’t made any bibliographical notations, so no, I can’t give references. You can probably find plenty on line.

If you want anecdotal evidence, get a hundred of your friends to pray about a drought that is happening somewhere in the world today, and see how that goes!

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By: Frankie Ting https://ehrmanblog.org/is-the-bible-inspired-by-god-guest-post-by-evangelical-apologist-mike-licona/comment-page-3/#comment-97741
Mon, 25 Nov 2019 05:05:25 +0000https://ehrmanblog.org/?p=17159#comment-97741To make a long story short, for Christians, it is about FAITH. Believing despite the ABSENCE of strong proof/evidence. As a former born-again Christian who used to believe that every single letter,comma & period of the the Bible is the word of God, I have now come to realize the foolishness of this type of thinking. If there is a “God”, the fact that he placed our mind/brain on the topmost portion of the body shows that he must be a rational entity who has a “scientific” mind as can be seen in the laws of nature & the “order” found in the universe.
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By: Gary https://ehrmanblog.org/is-the-bible-inspired-by-god-guest-post-by-evangelical-apologist-mike-licona/comment-page-3/#comment-97739
Mon, 25 Nov 2019 04:41:38 +0000https://ehrmanblog.org/?p=17159#comment-97739In reply to Gary.

“The most frequent way God speaks to me, and, I believe, to most Christians, is through that still, small voice.”

There is no possible way that Mike Licona, Craig Keener, Gary Habermas, and William Lane Craig can objectively investigate alleged supernatural events involving a dead first century prophet when they believe the spirit/ghost of this dead man lives inside their bodies, communicating with them in “a still, small voice”…or worse yet…in a voice they claim they can audibly hear!

This is irrational, biased thinking, folks. These people are sincere, good people but they are operating under a MASSIVE delusion. Don’t let the “Dr.” in front of their names bamboozle you. These gentlemen are peddling snake oil—they may not realize it—but that is what it is: snake oil. Telling children and gullible adults that a first century human sacrifice is going to give them life after death in a mansion of gold on a gold paved street in outer space is snake oil!

Having watched much of your content online, I, as a Jew, realize you have never considered the question, “Why don’t Jews believe the claims of Christianity?” You only seem to focus on the NT, without putting it in the context of Jewish beliefs and texts. You must measure the claims of the NT/Christianity, against the classic Jewish understanding of the Hebrew Bible BEFORE you can determine if the claims of Christianity are true. With all do respect, it’s hard for me to regard you as a scholar/historian since you really haven’t done your homework with regard to classical Judaism. I encourage you do this before posting any more content in any way or speaking to any churches about your belief that the resurrection happened or any other defense of Christianity.