First of all compliments on the allegro logo (Yeah, I mean the one on the wiki and I know it's not official ). Looks good. Rescalable two thumbs up.But as the nitpicker that I am, I do have some criticism. As already mentioned it looks like the mascot standing in front of the logo... implicitly making the logo that big ol' "A" which I think is a bit bland for a logo. It would be nice to see "Allegro" spelled out in that font.Having said that, I have to contribute something. Okay, I utterly suck at drawing on the computer, but here goes...http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/592604 http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/592605 I just thought a music note in (kiddy) colours spells out fun and fits graphics of all caliber. Ofcourse that's a little bland too...The motto could be less sarcastic: "play it allegro".On a side note, when I ripped that first image I noticed that the line under Alex' chin is kind of weird. I don't think there should be a black line there. (Alex the allegrator? )

Basically, I like the nose in the former, but it needs the little black outline on the right side of Alex thats in the second. Also, I'd like a transparent bg

Not sure what you mean with that. Are you referring to the jaggy "cheek" and the uneven width of the black outline? (Could you post an image with an arrow pointing on what you are reffering to?)As for transparent bg: All the attachments in this post (which includes the latest version of the shapes with Ryans colors in png format) have a transparent bg.

Mark Oates said:

7 colors. I even included clown vomit pink for the background.

It appears that you based that pixel version on the old shapes ('wrong' nose, old belly form). Other than that I like it, though even a pixelled version could at least have some manual antialiasing on the outlines.

Well if a logo is ever finally decided on and picked would it be possible to have a function in the new api that does a cutscene or intro with something along the lines of "Made with Allegro game programming library" with the new logo fading in and out.Something like:

al_advert();

Of course the image should probaby be dumped and stored in a header or something and as well as account for the current set screen size.It's just an idea though, it would be great to be able to have something like that imo.

Andrei Ellman pointed me to this thread and it appears to be full of Alex stuff so I thought I should say something.

First, I'm flattered! If the Allegro community picks up Alex as mascot/logo/whatever it would be very cool. (And by the way, his name is Alex The Allegator.) Somethings however to think about:

I own and intend to keep owning the intellectual property that is Alex the Allegator. Same gos for all other rights (c, tm, etc). However, I would gladly license Alex to the community for free, but we can sort out the details for that later (if it becomes the option of choice).

However, I would gladly license Alex to the community for free, but we can sort out the details for that later (if it becomes the option of choice).

Would you also license him to the community for free if he did not become the official logo/mascot?As it is now, we have a lot of inofficial logos among which is also the vectorized Alex The Allegator and I guess if anybody wants to use that as the logo in their games, they need to have a license for that as well.

Don't know if what I say makes sense, I'll try to say it shorter: The community wants/needs(to be on the safe side) a license to use Alex The Allegator as the logo for Allegro, independent of whether it becomes an official logo or not.

And I see one more problem with rights: Matthew said that he grabbed that big blue A from somewhere. There could be copyright issues attached to that as well, unless of course the source was in the public domain. (Would not be funny to get a call someday from someone saying "Hey, I'll sue you for using my A without permission!")

Now what is the next step?Should there be an official logo challenge? (runtime: one or two months, winner cast by democratic vote of the community(two picks per member allowed), the logo picked by the vote will become official and henceforth will be included with all future versions of Allegro)

Hm... can you try to reverse the order of Alex and the A?So he stands on the left of the A instead of the right. I think it would like he is standing there, leaning against the A. Also, since part the tail would be covered by the horizontal bar of the A, it would get more depth.

--There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

Your opinion will potentially affect the decision on what the logo should be, so I think we should clarify the details before we make a decision:

Would you...

1 allow use of the name "Alex the Allegator" for a) included with the source of the allegro library itself b) included in the official allegro demo game c) the official allegro website d) the allegro wiki e) on allegro.cc f) in any game or program that makes use of allegro, to indicate that it was made with allegro g) in any game or program that makes use of allegro, for any other reason

2 allow use of the original pixelated logo for the allegro library a) included with the source of the allegro library itself b) included in the official allegro demo game c) the official allegro website d) the allegro wiki e) on allegro.cc f) in any game or program that makes use of allegro, to indicate that it was made with allegro (e.g in a splash screen, as the application icon or in accompanying documentation) g) in any game or program that makes use of allegro, for any other reason

3 allow use of the new vectorized logo for the allegro library a) included with the source of the allegro library itself b) included in the official allegro demo game c) the official allegro website d) the allegro wiki e) on allegro.cc f) in any game or program that makes use of allegro, to indicate that it was made with allegro (e.g in a splash screen, as the application icon or in accompanying documentation) g) in any game or program that makes use of allegro, for any other reason

I'm not saying a "NO" on any of these is bad, but more clarification would be in order. Also, if we do choose Alex as a mascot / logo, it will be necessary to include these terms in the allegro license, lest somebody steals your character a few years down the road.

But nethertheless, I'm surte that just about any graphics/fonts etc that originated on the ST/Amiga demoscene in the 80's must be in the public-domain by now.

Definitely not, because it's less than 50 years so even if the artist croaked while putting in the last pixel, it is still under copyright protection. The same goes for the A in the Alex logo. Which font is that? If it belongs to the Monotype company there could easily be a bill for €300 + punitive damages, looking for a mat to land on.

I'd dearly like to use Futura in DevAlleg, but that's €350 per font, or €1350 for the whole typeface.

EDIT: no need for anyone to tell me I'm being paranoid. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate in case we want to cross our t's and dot our i's legally.

In the pixeled version, sure. The A in the vector version has changed too dramatically to be considered the same one. The shape may be the same, but as one was pixeled and one was vectored, I don't think there's any comparison, plus the shading was changed.

There is also the option to change the shape of the A a bit. Maybe even redesign the whole logo from scratch. Alex The Allegator could probably stick his upper body through the center of the A, his one arm lying on it like on an open car window while he'd still do that "thumbs up" gesture with his other arm. This would also give the logo more depth.

I hereby change my #1 choice to the vectorised A that everyone else is supporting.

A good argument for making it the 'official' logo is that it's development was a team effort, it's approval has the consensus of a.cc'ers and I don't think that anyone objects to the design (although I think there's still a few outstanding niggles about the minor details).

Also, I like the pixellated logo Mark Oates drew. Bear in mind that rasterisation of vectorised images does not work well at low resolutions, so the rasterisation would have to be done by hand. Would still be nice if there were 'official' 32x32 and 16x16 pixel-versions of the final design for the vectorised image.

It would be nice to include this logo in some form in the forthcoming 4.2.2 release (even as a large bitmap in the demo.dat file).

Your opinion will potentially affect the decision on what the logo should be, so I think we should clarify the details before we make a decision:

Lots of questions.

I think if Johan has any reservations at all, then we shouldn't even call the mascot Alex or use any of his original bitmap versions. Plus Dennis could take a bit more creative liberty with the alligator's look so as not to blatantly copy the original sprite.

The reason is simply that there's no way we can police the usage of it. The fact is, it's impossible for Johan to keep trademark and let people use it in their games. And we don't want to get in the business of having to send people cease and desist orders. It's against the whole nature of Allegro.

That is I really don't think Allegro benefits from including a mascot / logo in its distribution that has a stricter license than Allegro.

There is also the option to change the shape of the A a bit. Maybe even redesign the whole logo from scratch. Alex The Allegator could probably stick his upper body through the center of the A, his one arm lying on it like on an open car window while he'd still do that "thumbs up" gesture with his other arm. This would also give the logo more depth.

That could work. I think it would be nice to merge the A and Alex together better... The current version makes them look like two separate images, one pasted over the other one...

Matthew Leverton said:

That is I really don't think Allegro benefits from including a mascot / logo in its distribution that has a stricter license than Allegro.