He had a bad night. The fact of the matter is the Penguins get scored on astronomically less this year when Orpik/Martin are on the ice. Whether you like it or not, Orpik/Martin's super stats are among the lead shutdown pairs in the NHL, and above many of them. I'm sure last night puts a dent in that, but they've been very good all year.

Orpik, the MVP of post-game media sessions. I wish Bylsma was ballsy enough to give him the fourth line winger treatment like Therrien did. Therrien had him playing the best hockey of his career not long after that.

Henry Hank wrote:Orpik, the MVP of post-game media sessions. I wish Bylsma was ballsy enough to give him the fourth line winger treatment like Therrien did. Therrien had him playing the best hockey of his career not long after that.

Bylsma would never, and I mean never bench or do what Therrien did to Orpik.

Henry Hank wrote:Orpik, the MVP of post-game media sessions. I wish Bylsma was ballsy enough to give him the fourth line winger treatment like Therrien did. Therrien had him playing the best hockey of his career not long after that.

Bylsma would never, and I mean never bench or do what Therrien did to Orpik.

I don't think it would work for Bylsma. Completely different coaching style.

Henry Hank wrote:Orpik, the MVP of post-game media sessions. I wish Bylsma was ballsy enough to give him the fourth line winger treatment like Therrien did. Therrien had him playing the best hockey of his career not long after that.

Bylsma would never, and I mean never bench or do what Therrien did to Orpik.

Of course he wouldn't. Give him a pat on the butt and tell him it was just the goalie's fault anyway

Henry Hank wrote:Orpik, the MVP of post-game media sessions. I wish Bylsma was ballsy enough to give him the fourth line winger treatment like Therrien did. Therrien had him playing the best hockey of his career not long after that.

Bylsma would never, and I mean never bench or do what Therrien did to Orpik.

Of course he wouldn't. Give him a pat on the butt and tell him it was just the goalie's fault anyway

I'm with you though. Orpik should be benched next game for this play. This team needs to be sent a message if they refuse to make any other changes.

Henry Hank wrote:Orpik, the MVP of post-game media sessions. I wish Bylsma was ballsy enough to give him the fourth line winger treatment like Therrien did. Therrien had him playing the best hockey of his career not long after that.

Bylsma would never, and I mean never bench or do what Therrien did to Orpik.

Of course he wouldn't. Give him a pat on the butt and tell him it was just the goalie's fault anyway

I'm with you though. Orpik should be benched next game for this play. This team needs to be sent a message if they refuse to make any other changes.

It would be appropriate that DB takes a page out of Therrien's book and sits Orpik for a game. If it was an out-of-the-ordinary event, sure, no problem, keep playing him and make up for it. But Orpik is on a streak that is mindbogglingly bad.

Players' coaches have a difficult time holding veterans accountable because they might lose the favor of the locker room if it's done incorrectly. Thus, all the problems with the team are taken out on the youth (Despres scratched, Bennett benched tonight). While veteran players, those that would have more pull, are able to get away with a few bad games (or more) and not lose their jersey...Orpik will probably start the next game, Engelland hasn't been scratched yet has he? Kunitz early in the year to a lesser extent, Adams to a lesser extent...some players seem to be immune to the rotation, audition is merely a formality for them...

Personally, I don't believe Bylsma has the wherewithal to sit a player of Orpik's caliber...

Now, I'll say the flip side as someone that has a fair amount of coaching experience (relative to an average person, not an NHL coach). It's a lot easier to talk about benching/scratching a player than it is to actually do it...the consequences can be dire, you can lose the player, you can lose the room, you can affect morale negatively...coaching takes a delicate balance...some players don't like to be pushed and prodded, some players need you to light their ass on fire every night to get a pulse from them...you have to really understand your team at a macro and micro level in order to push the right buttons...

Personally, I think the team can make adjustments with the current core and be ok...I don't think we need to do anything rash, but I'm a "let's not do anything rash" type of guy...will those adjustments get made? Will they be successful? Useful questions.

Last edited by mikey287 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mikey287 wrote:Players' coaches have a difficult time holding veterans accountable because they might lose the favor of the locker room if it's done incorrectly. Thus, all the problems with the team are taken out on the youth (Despres scratched, Bennett benched tonight). While veteran players, those that would have more pull, are able to get away with a few bad games (or more) and not lose their jersey...Orpik will probably start the next game, Engelland hasn't been scratched yet has he? Kunitz early in the year to a lesser extent, Adams to a lesser extent...some players seem to be immune to the rotation, audition is merely a formality for them...

Personally, I don't believe Bylsma has the wherewithal to sit a player of Orpik's caliber...

Now, I'll say the flip side as someone that has a fair amount of coaching experience (relative to an average person, not an NHL coach). It's a lot easier to talk about benching/scratching a player than it is to actually do it...the consequences can be dire, you can lose the player, you can lose the room, you can affect morale negatively...coaching takes a delicate balance...some players don't like to be pushed and prodded, some players need you to light their ass on fire every night to get a pulse from them...you have to really understand your team at a macro and micro level in order to push the right buttons...

Personally, I think the team can make adjustments with the current core and be ok...I don't think we need to do anything rash, but I'm a "let's not do anything rash" type of guy...will those adjustments get made? Will they be successful? Useful questions.

No ill will or offense to you as a person or coach, but I wish Vince Lombardi could read some of this! I bet he would throw up a little in his mouth. If a professional hockey player acts strangely to being scatched and becomes a locker room cancer, then he needs to pack his bags. It sounds as if entitlement isnt just an issue for those who collect food stamps. My how this country has changed over the last thirty years.

mikey287 wrote:Personally, I think the team can make adjustments with the current core and be ok...I don't think we need to do anything rash, but I'm a "let's not do anything rash" type of guy...will those adjustments get made? Will they be successful? Useful questions.

As is Shero, but status quo tends to be what loses in the playoffs. Teams that add in a meaningful way, and sometimes displace the tried-and-true type of guys, tend to get rewarded. Orpik went from a top US-born Defenseman 2 years ago and declined steeply since. We need the guy that makes the big hit and the timely stick check around the net. He's not been that for more than a year. Have to be able to move on from him, if its necessary.... and its becoming necessary.

mikey287 wrote:Personally, I think the team can make adjustments with the current core and be ok...I don't think we need to do anything rash, but I'm a "let's not do anything rash" type of guy...will those adjustments get made? Will they be successful? Useful questions.

As is Shero, but status quo tends to be what loses in the playoffs. Teams that add in a meaningful way, and sometimes displace the tried-and-true type of guys, tend to get rewarded. Orpik went from a top US-born Defenseman 2 years ago and declined steeply since. We need the guy that makes the big hit and the timely stick check around the net. He's not been that for more than a year. Have to be able to move on from him, if its necessary.... and its becoming necessary.

mikey287 wrote:Players' coaches have a difficult time holding veterans accountable because they might lose the favor of the locker room if it's done incorrectly. Thus, all the problems with the team are taken out on the youth (Despres scratched, Bennett benched tonight). While veteran players, those that would have more pull, are able to get away with a few bad games (or more) and not lose their jersey...Orpik will probably start the next game, Engelland hasn't been scratched yet has he? Kunitz early in the year to a lesser extent, Adams to a lesser extent...some players seem to be immune to the rotation, audition is merely a formality for them...

Personally, I don't believe Bylsma has the wherewithal to sit a player of Orpik's caliber...

Now, I'll say the flip side as someone that has a fair amount of coaching experience (relative to an average person, not an NHL coach). It's a lot easier to talk about benching/scratching a player than it is to actually do it...the consequences can be dire, you can lose the player, you can lose the room, you can affect morale negatively...coaching takes a delicate balance...some players don't like to be pushed and prodded, some players need you to light their ass on fire every night to get a pulse from them...you have to really understand your team at a macro and micro level in order to push the right buttons...

Personally, I think the team can make adjustments with the current core and be ok...I don't think we need to do anything rash, but I'm a "let's not do anything rash" type of guy...will those adjustments get made? Will they be successful? Useful questions.

i'm sure it's a delicate balance. you'd just hope that if he's not willing to scratch/demote/move to wing/whatever, that he's pulling him aside privately and carefully informing him that he's kinda sorta a significant part of the problem.

mikey287 wrote:Players' coaches have a difficult time holding veterans accountable because they might lose the favor of the locker room if it's done incorrectly. Thus, all the problems with the team are taken out on the youth (Despres scratched, Bennett benched tonight). While veteran players, those that would have more pull, are able to get away with a few bad games (or more) and not lose their jersey...Orpik will probably start the next game, Engelland hasn't been scratched yet has he? Kunitz early in the year to a lesser extent, Adams to a lesser extent...some players seem to be immune to the rotation, audition is merely a formality for them...

Personally, I don't believe Bylsma has the wherewithal to sit a player of Orpik's caliber...

Now, I'll say the flip side as someone that has a fair amount of coaching experience (relative to an average person, not an NHL coach). It's a lot easier to talk about benching/scratching a player than it is to actually do it...the consequences can be dire, you can lose the player, you can lose the room, you can affect morale negatively...coaching takes a delicate balance...some players don't like to be pushed and prodded, some players need you to light their ass on fire every night to get a pulse from them...you have to really understand your team at a macro and micro level in order to push the right buttons...

Personally, I think the team can make adjustments with the current core and be ok...I don't think we need to do anything rash, but I'm a "let's not do anything rash" type of guy...will those adjustments get made? Will they be successful? Useful questions.

No ill will or offense to you as a person or coach, but I wish Vince Lombardi could read some of this! I bet he would throw up a little in his mouth. If a professional hockey player acts strangely to being scatched and becomes a locker room cancer, then he needs to pack his bags. It sounds as if entitlement isnt just an issue for those who collect food stamps. My how this country has changed over the last thirty years.

Well, entitlement today is part of it. People in general aren't as "tough" as they were back in - what I assume is - your day (based on the user name). You can't really have a Herb Brooks go in there and start questioning a player's manhood because of an injury...I mean, you can, but they have a short shelf life generally speaking (Tortorella's struggles this year being Exhibit A). But even back then, certain players just couldn't be bossed around really...they'd just do other things, jump their contracts, etc. Some players, like a Pete Mahovlich type, you could break a 2 by 4 across their shoulders before every game and he'd play harder...some guys just don't care for that type of treatment...

I'm not a "hold hands, let's share, peace and love" pinko coach by any means...but you recognize the psychological make up of a player and you decide whether he'll respond to negative or positive reinforcement...when you coach in the NHL, it's a little easier, there's a thousand guys that want that spot in the lineup and you can trade problem child(ren)...at a collegiate or lower level, there isn't really that opportunity, so you have to make the best of what you have...you can't get rid of those players, you can get rid of the coach...