I can see your point about God being our only savior regardless of any human God put in that role for the ancient Israelites or anyone else for that matter. He is the Potter. He alone decides who gets saved.
There is no other God or man that holds that position. Therfore any savior or army of saviors that has ever saved is God doing the saving.
When a man saves a drowning person, God. When a doctor saves a dying patient, God. When Jesus died on the Cross, it was from God. You are so correct, there is only one who saves regardless of the avenue he chooses to use.
Each and every salvation from person to nation was the work of God as was the destroyers as well. That's the power of the Potter.

I see this unity as more of Oneness than the Trinity. Why stop at three? Every salvation is from God. Jesus was the avenue used. The doctor was the avenue used. The prophets were the avenue used. It's all salvation from God and God alone, singular, oneness.

Senior Member

Then what you are saying is maybe we won't get the whole picture or see Jesus as he is until he comes? We know in part, we can see. We can feel. We know God sent his Son. For now our knowledge is partial.
Even with Scripture, our knowledge is partial.
We see a dim reflection.

Yet Paul left the Holy Spirit out of his salutations. Paul also said “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”

This was after Jesus was on the earth as a human and after his ascension back to my Father and his Father.

Paul's teaching approach was more about the unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The fellowship and the diversity between them.

2 Corinthians 13:14
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Senior Member

In the sense that the Holy Spirit is God's spirit this is true. What I'm talking about is Paul didn't spell it out. He didn't separate the Holy Spirit in his written salutations like he separated Jesus;

"Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ"

Senior Member

Then what you are saying is maybe we won't get the whole picture or see Jesus as he is until he comes? We know in part, we can see. We can feel. We know God sent his Son. For now our knowledge is partial.
Even with Scripture, our knowledge is partial.
We see a dim reflection.

It does not read to me " when the perfect will come" it reads "When the perfect is come... " The first sentence interpreted by you points to the future, but the sentence in the verse point to the past or not a future even. How can the author know that the partial passes away due to the coming of the perfect? It is not a statement of hope. It seems a statement from fact or of experience to me.

So what I'm driving at is that the perfect come is the Holy Spirit sent by the Father through/by/ due our Lord the Son and our savior Jesus equally sent by the Father and equally God and a man.

When the perfect comes the partial passes away. It does not say the partial will pass away, it says that it does pass away. When Jesus is come in a person's life it is not a life of partials... it is a life of yes and no within the new relationship.

Last edited: Jul 1, 2018

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Senior Member

It does not read to me " when the perfect will come" it reads "When the perfect is come... " The first sentence interpreted by you points to the future, but the sentence in the verse point to the past or not a future even. How can the author know that the partial passes away due to the coming of the perfect? It is not a statement of hope. It seems a statement from fact or of experience to me.

So what I'm driving at is that the perfect come is the Holy Spirit sent by the Father through/by/ due our Lord the Son and our savior Jesus equally sent by the Father and equally God and a man.

When the perfect comes the partial passes away. It does not say the partial will pass away, it says that it does pass away. When Jesus is come in a person's life it is not a life of partials... it is a life of yes and no within the new relationship.

You see this passage as the perfect already being completely revealed? I think we still only see in partial. The Holy Spirit is a step in that revelation coming to be but we won't see completely unitl we are face to face. Reading on in that passage;

1 Corinthians 13:12
or now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Paul is saying even now he only sees a reflection in terms of knowledge. Paul even being an apostle who received "insider information." Had the Holy Spirit not come when Paul said this? Was he talking about the Holy Spirit being the perfect? Was his Holy Spirit experience seeing face to face the perfect?

There are some other things that are still partial that hasn't been made perfect.(mature,complete)
I'm not sure the coming of the Holy Spirit was what Paul is talking about in verse 10. I don't see that as the completeness coming and the partial passing.