Often, men like to pursue and to express to a woman their love and affection through simple acts of service. However this doesn’t mean that there are hard fast etiquette rules to how husbands and wives meet, date, or act when married. This idea that men should pursue women often boxes people out of relationships, and ultimately, out of their happiness and fulfillment. So what’s the problem in women demanding to be pursued by men?

Here are seven concerns I have:

1. It’s a demand. Reread: 1 Corinthians 13. You’ve already lost love if you demand, and go on a dating strike until these etiquette rules are met.

2. Everybody’s definition of “pursue” is different. Some women think pursuing means that the man should contact them every time, including the first time and all throughout their courtship. The women only reciprocate, but never initiate any contact. Other women think pursuing means the man must initiate the introduction and first date, but that’s their only requirement. Other women think traditional pursuing is antiquated, and they have no problem directly showing their interest in a guy first, and if the interest is mutual, then from that point on he will pursue her. Other women don’t have an opinion either way. They’d just like to be married already! No one can read minds. So with this many varying thoughts, opinions, and definitions floating around, how is anyone going to know to which definition you support?

3. We can’t reverse generational expectations overnight. How can we judge these men by dating standards that are not part of popular culture, not specifically supported by individual parishes, or even in families anymore, or anywhere else but in our own heads? Sometimes it’s subtle dirty looks when they try to hold a door open, or ask someone out on a date, but men have been rejected and ignored. Men are not going to keep trying a method over and over if it doesn’t bring desired results. Men, take these opportunities to act courageously, hold that door, and call her today.

4. Men may actually think they are pursuing, and in the same instance, the woman may not feel pursued, and will then respond in ways that will make him feel rejected. Where in the Catechism does it say that happy holy marriages ONLY start with a specific formula of who calls first? Men, keep trying. Email her today. Women, be clear. Let him know if you’re interested, or let him go if you’re not. If you’re interested, it’s okay to be obvious. Your subtle hints may not be working.

5. Women, you could be objectifying men. They are not here solely to make you comfortable, or to be your personal event planner. You don’t know them; you don’t know their story, or why they are the way they are. Show respect for men by letting them show their interest in their own personalized way. Tell him verbally, not telepathically, how he can best show his interest for you. End the dating strike. Smile, flirt, strike up a conversation. Let him know you’re available. Men, ask for her phone number, and then use it before some other man does.

6. Are these unspoken rules of pursuing etiquette helping us become saints? Or are they just our scapegoat for challenging our comfort zone? Our decisions should be advancing us towards marriage. Are you willing to sacrifice the life to which God is calling you, because your preconceived ideas about romantic relationships are being challenged? Are you open to marriage on God’s terms, which are often mysterious, or only your own?

7. Women, if you do initiate contact in the beginning, it doesn’t mean you’re doomed to do all the planning, dating, and pursuing all the days of your married life. Men are human beings, apt to grow and change with you, not puppets following a script. Be encouraging. He is risking as much as are you.

Remember at the end of our lives, we are not only responsible for the things we’ve done, but also those things we didn’t do. Women, be merciful to yourselves. Give men a taste of what unconditional love means (not, only if you call/email/ask me on a date first). And men, my advice to you is simple: date. Don’t waste time or those opportunities for love.

Related Posts:

Joy Kubik met her husband, Alex, through CatholicMatch.com in June 2005. They married a year later after Joy graduated from the University of Connecticut with a Bachelor of Arts degree in English Literature. She takes her vocation seriously and her coffee black. Besides writing, Joy enjoys her family, puns, chocolate, art, music, researching women's health and child development, the beach, growing in virtue, working plumbing, electricity, and, of course, God.

Interesting piece. I can only speak from my own personal experience. I have found that when men are the one who initiate the relationships in my own personal life were more successful then when I initiated. I did initiate too. I found that when the man initiated he seemed more interested and committed in having a relationship. When I did it my relationships did not last. I know of several marriages in which the man pursued and the women said if it wasn’t for that fact they would not be married today. In both cases the men knew that they wanted to be in a relationship with these women. They did not give up even when they could of. In one case, the man was 10 years younger than the woman. He worked with her. He arranged his work schedule so that he worked every shift she did. He would ask her if she would like to have a coffee with him. She hadn’t dated in 10 years and wasn’t really interested in dating due her past abusive relationship. She would say no thank-you to him. His response was ok well maybe next time then. The next time he worked with her he would ask her again. He didn’t give up and eventually she had a coffee with him. They ended up together. She thought wow he keeps asking me and if he keeps asking me even though I said no he must like me. He was persistent and because of that she went out with him.
I know of other stories in which the man pursued and was persistent and because of this the couple went out and eventually got married. I do not know of any couples personally whom were married as a result of the woman pursuing that ended happily in marriage. However, I am not implying that there are not successful relationships as a result of women pursuing. I am just saying that in my own personal experience and couples whom I know that have shared their story with me of how they met and married the man was the one whom initiated and pursued.

On a site like CM, women who view a profile and perhaps make a simple observation about something in it are taking enough of a first step for the man; if we are interested we will do the rest. (It’s similar to a “smile” out in public; we know you’ll be friendly to us if we approach you.)

Hey William, I’ve initiated conversation with 5 guys in Houston. No one has replied to me from this area. Can you take a look at my profile and tell me if I should change something on it or add to it? Not sure why no one will reply to me. I’m thinking maybe it’s my age. Thanks.

William-607613, it would be respectful for you to speak only for yourself. You stating “we men” was not something I was given an opportunity to vote on. I think a balanced approach of social norms and expectations should exist. It seems as though women have no expectations required or uniformly enforced on them, as men do. I prefer that there be no expectations at all, but it seems that ladies always have some, while men are easy about it. Sorry for the double post.

1)Don’t expect to be pursued if you are far away.
2)Don’t decide how you will be pursued. One lady demanded I text her, rejected me when I phoned.
3)I think ladies can show interest. I’ve seen guys make a move on a lady, got rejected, another lady showed interest, and they hit it off.
4)A lady may invite a guy to a social event that she’s very very comfortable with (such as a Church dinner or social), where there are lots of other people to talk to if things are weird.
5)Either way, the person approaching may get rejected.
6)If one can’t express interest on a safe website like CM, I don’t think they could make that expression anywhere else.

I see nothing wrong whatever with a woman initiating contact. If the man is the introverted personality type who generally keeps to himself and the woman is a social butterfly, why shouldn’t she let her interest be known to him? I myself am not the most socially outgoing person and find myself wishing that more women would make the first move.

Hi Dana, I like your profile, but there are a thing or two that you might consider changing. First, when you don’t get a response, is it after they have actually “viewed” your profile? By that I mean that in most cases, I mostly don’t view a profile that does not have a “cover” photo. You would get more views if you had one. The other is I have an immediate question after reading your text and that is why have you lived in many places? The answer may be interesting but it’s not a good theme to begin a discussion. You might be better off listing things that you enjoy. Someone can pick up on that better if they also have a same like, you may hear from them..
p.s. I’d welcome any feedback on my own profile, which also is not working!

Hello Dana,
My name is Karen and I went to your profile. You will have more traffic to your site if you post a Profile Photo. You do have a Header Photo, but it is not centered so that your lovely face can be seen. We just see the top of your head, just your hair. I am not a man, but from what I understand, they are very “visual” creatures and you will need to get your profile photo up and add other photos to your site. If you need a friend, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Good luck to you!
Karen

Joy–very good article. I think men should generally be the pursuers, but this whole idea of operating within a rigid set of rules is silly. I’ll admit that there are times when I’ve had to step up my game a bit, but women should realize that we aren’t dealing with the same social conventions of 50 years ago. Even in Catholic circles, the simple act of asking a woman out to coffee can be met with a kind of cold rebuke.

You’re #5 is spot-on, and I’ll add that I’ve run into “traditional” women who use their “rules” to subtly play mind games (or be hot/cold) and manipulate men into doing what they want them to do. That *is* objectifying.

I like to point to Gen 24 in how Abraham found a wife for his son. If the lady in question did not help an old man and water his camels without asking, she would have never been introduced in the first place.

The first thing that strikes me is that there is a difference between “initiating” and “pursuing.” I do not understand why a woman would have a problem initiating a conversation with a man. That seems frightfully self-conscious. Saying “hello” to a man is not pursuing him. It’s just letting him know that you exist, and that you think he seems like a nice person. He can take it from there, if he wants to. If he doesn’t want to….he won’t. End of story.
If a woman, however, went on to ask the guy out, tell him she liked him, ask him if he wanted to date her….that’s pursuing. And human nature being what it is, the good guys, (who would have done something already if they were interested) will quickly elude the seemingly desperate woman who is hunting them down, while the bad guys will bask in the attention as long as they feel like it…and give nothing in return.

Hi Bernadette , beautiful name by the way . . You said the good guys would have done something already , . . actually the good guys don’t pursue at all . . . to do so is to hunt for sexual motives . . this does not mean they are desperate . . for family & genuine purposes they look for women who are not out and about independently but close with there family .

Dominic- Do you really think that speaking to an attractive lady in a library, museum, restaurant, bar or other public place means that it is only a sexual hookup? Do you think Christian women only go out in public with chaperons? I’m just wondering what you are saying, that’s all. Do good guys seek their wives only through matchmakers? I know a lot of Christian couples who met in bars, others on dating websites. Do you disagree with these ways of meeting one’s future spouse?

What you said, Elena! I’m confused too. If good men don’t pursue, and good women are not “out and about independently but close with their family” then I fail to see how romantic relationships are supposed to get started. A matchmaker sounds like the only way to go….
I know a lot of wonderful men, both family members and dear friends. They’re not afraid to speak to women, and to show interest. And they’re both respectful and moral. I know, this kind of man is the exception, not the rule. But they do exist!

Hi Elena . . Its not what i think , I’m saying what is factual regardless if any one disagrees because people tend to do that when somethink doesn’t make sense & that’s due to there lack of experiences . . First for (1) can i return the idea back to you & say “Elena” do you really think you know & understand the true nature of a man because no women really has or have any idea . . (2) I don’t see any think wrong for a man to be speaking to a woman in any public environment if there is a genuine reason for it . . i have six sisters under me & I was very strong with them not to stop & talk to any strangers at any time or place . . Guess what , though it was hard for me & Them already a few have come up to me & thanked me for . . the only sister now divorce is the youngest cause i had no fight left in me & she met her man the worlds way like the stupid false love story’s in the movies . . & who is a christian woman first . . even i don’t refer to my self as a Christian , its just that i would love to be & hope i will be . . a good woman should always be close to her family & not over free out and about independently . . there is no need for a christian girl to be chaperon when not dating . . (3) look . . there are many genuine ways for a christian girl to meet some one , to give a few . . have good friends & through them is genuine , get involved with young christian groups is another , through family & friends or with good social groups are all good . . there is a lot about men even man don’t know about them selves because of two good reasons , either green in side or dead from sin. . take care , i mean well for you both other wise i would not take the time to mention a few points . . if you would like to know more here is my face book exposed to the world to see some of my mystic views on this world & its miss led ways .

Kathy, not that I’m saying your story of the couple who met at work isn’t sweet, but unfortunately in this world, his repeated requests for dates even after she had said no multiple times might be construed as “sexual harassment” in today’s workplace. Not to seem jaded, but just saying, one has to be careful nowadays…

Since when is the opposite of “timid” manly? I like this article. I find it personally challenging to speak to women in public (and here) if I find them attractive. I constantly stumble over my words and struggle with confidence versus not wanting to seem forward or rude. I even have difficulty asking a woman for coffee at church. I feel like the last thing they want to do when coming to worship is to be hit on by some random guy. Once the ice breaks I am fine. The sad thing is, most guys I know who are full of confidence also can be jerks. I rather be the quite, at first, nice guy.

“Once the ice breaks I am fine.” That is precisely what I meant. I think it is a good thing for a woman to be friendly and even initiate conversation. That is not the same thing as “pursuing” a man; which is a point on which I find this article remarkably ambiguous.

I’d like to point to the work and lectures of Alexandre Havard on “Virtuous Leadership”. He gave lectures at the Franciscan University of Steubenville and the US Army War College. They are available on youtube, and he has two books on Amazon. St. Thomas Aquinas mentions specific virtues related to leadership, but the foundational virtues of justice, fortitude, prudence, and temperance are still required. I like to recall that friendship falls under the virtue of justice in the Summa, a topic clarified and expounded upon by the Gentleman Saint and Church Doctor in “Intro to the Devout Life”.

Some worthy quotes:
* “Leadership is about achieving greatness by bringing out the greatness in others.”
* “There are many Christians,” writes St. Escriva, “who follow Christ and are astonished by His divinity, but forget Him as a Man. And they fail in the practice of supernatural virtues, despite all the external paraphernalia of piety, because they do nothing to acquire human virtues.”
* Christian leaders have a model of human and divine perfection—Jesus Christ. … If to lead is to serve others even to the nth degree, then Christ’s sacrifice of His life on Calvary for our sakes, which is renewed in each and every celebration of the Holy Eucharist, must constitute any leader’s supreme inspiration.
Ref: Havard, Alexandre (2010-10-12). Virtuous Leadership (Kindle Locations 2388-2390). Scepter Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Confidence is not the same as competence. See Dunning Kruger effect below, which is both enlightening and humorous.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude.
Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude, “the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others”.

Either to seek or to shun society is a fault in one striving to lead a devout life in the world. To shun society implies indifference and contempt for one’s neighbours; and to seek it savours of idleness and uselessness. We are told to love one’s neighbour as one’s self. In token that we love him, we must not avoid being with him, and the test of loving one’s self is to be happy when alone. Think first on thyself, says Saint Bernard, and then on other men. So that, if nothing obliges you to mix in society either at home or abroad, retire within yourself, and hold converse with your own heart. But if friends come to you, or there is fitting cause for you to go forth into society, then, my child, by all means go, and meet your neighbour with a kindly glance and a kindly heart. – “Intro to the Devout Life: Society and Solitude” by Church Doctor and Gentleman St. Francis de Sales

Saint Paul reproaching the derangement of the Gentiles, accuses them of being people without affection, that is to say who had no friendship (Romans 1:31). Make yourself affable to the congregation of the poor, humble your soul to the elderly, and bow your head to a great man (Ecclus 4:7). St. Thomas the Universal Doctor, states that friendship is part of the virtue of justice. [The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas – Question 114. The friendliness which is called affability]

It is a blessed thing to love on earth as we hope to love in Heaven, and to begin that friendship here which is to endure for ever there. Jesus Christ loved John, Lazarus, Martha, and Magdalene with specially tender friendships, as we are told in Holy Scripture. We know that St Paul dearly loved St Mark, St Petronilla, Bishop Stachys (Romans 16:9), Timothy, Thecla, St Claudia and Pope Linus (2 Tim 4:21). St Ambrose loved St Monica because of her many virtues, and that she in return loved him as an Angel of God.

There are some who will tell you that you should avoid all special affection or friendship, as likely to engross the heart, distract the mind, excite jealousy, and what not. But they are confusing things between that of religious life in a well regulated community and laity.

Sin, including acts of silent omission, damages or destroys fraternal communion (CCC 1469). Of the difference between true and false friendship:
Worldly friendship ordinarily produces a grand cluster of honeyed words, a cajolery of small passionate endearments from beauty, grace, and sensual qualities.
Sacred friendship has a simple and frank language, praising the virtue and grace of God, the unique foundation on which it subsists.

Laypeople, through the grace of Jesus Christ, require sacred friendships to ensure and assist each other with the many obstacles that they must overcome in the world (Introduction to the Devout Life: Real Friendship). Better are the wounds of a friend, than the deceitful kisses of an enemy (Proverbs 27:6).

We must have congenial friends as members of the Body of Christ. The eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of you, nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. On the contrary, the members of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable (1 Cor 12:21). For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another (Rom 12:4-5). Therefore, the highest grace does not lie in being without friendships, but in having no friendships which are not good, holy, and true. “Marriage, when rightly understood, is a very real and holy friendship.” (Introduction to the Devout Life: On Friendship – Evil & Frivolous Friendship) To a married woman seeking holiness, St. Jane Frances De Chantel, this advice was written 400 years ago by a bishop, now known as the Gentleman Saint and a Doctor of the Church.
References:
Introduction to the Devout Life by Church Doctor and Gentleman Saint Francis de Sales
On Friendship: Evil and Frivolous Friendship
Frisky Friendships [amities folatres] / Frivolous Attachments / Amourettes
Of Real Friendship
Of the Difference between True and False Friendship
Remedies against Evil Friendships
Further Advice concerning Intimacies
Of Society and Solitude

Hi Robert . . I see you do a lot of reading . . but this does not mean you fully know how to interpret them and apply it to others to there life when every one has different shoes to walk the journey of life.

Hi, Christian. Women always respond to confidence in a man. This is attractive in the mating dance. Smile at a lady you like (after mass or in the church yard or social hour). If she smiles back, approach. Compliment her smile, eyes, or general beauty. Ask her questions, like is she single, does she have a boyfriend? If no, offer her your card and invite her to a date (coffee or drinks are good). If you don’t invite ladies on dates, nothing is going to happen. Dates are key to relationships and marriage matches. I would offer that at least for women (perhaps also for men) dates are part of our sexuality. “Hanging out” is not the same thing.

Yes Suzanne you do have to be careful at work. Asking someone out is a risk especially at work. The point I was trying to make was that in that particular story the guy was the one who asked her out first. He was interested in her and didn’t give up when she was quick to go out with him. I know of other instances where the man initiated and did not give up and the couple are married today. The women of these couples were not at first interested in these men but as they pursued them they became interested and said if it wasn’t for the fact that he didn’t give up on me we would not have gone out and we would not be married today.

I’ve been on other dating sites, men there are the one who make the first move by sending interest and messages to women they like . that “caught their attention”.. Being here on CM for 3 mos, won’t deny that it’s me who reach out to men.. don’t see anything wrong by reaching out to them, as long as am not begging for money and attention….. Cause if i will not do anything here, and kept on praying but just prayed without any action, then how will i be answered? If I’ve been ignore, it’s fine with me, at least i take the risk, but am thankful for those who “just viewed my profile, at least they they took time … and for those who replied, at least i got a “thank you’ reply….
God bless us all. Never lose hope..

The few times I initiated contact I ended up with a serial stalker or a dude that thought a mere hi message meant I wanted to marry him….nope. I have sent a comment from time to time on a profile if I saw something interesting in their profile they always take it too seriously. I’m to old school anyway if a guy is interested enough he’ll send a message that’s his job to pursue. My job is to respond if I’m interested.

In all the posts sent in, I did not see the word flirt, he or she, once. Isn’t that initiating some relationship? Saying ‘don’t be afraid of rejection?

Another phrase not there was ‘fear of rejection, for the woman’. Being a man, myself, I do not know what is going on in her mind. Can she take rejection, as many men do? When at a dance, some men let one ‘No’ bother them for he evening. Some just walk to another woman and ask her. He wants to dance and that may be his #1 concern. I remember asking a bike rider if she wanted to ride. She was flustered. She was a whole generation younger and all I wanted was to ride my bike, there was no ulterior motive.

Better than average article. Good work.
I particularly liked #4, because: THERE ARE NO RULES.
What works for one pair doesn’t work for another. Unlike Kathy, above, my own experience has always been that I was the initiator…and some good stuff came from it.

It’s a woman that spends all day thinking about men. She should go after a man. Women control a relationship. Waiting for a man to sweep her off her feet is a fantasy. If I know a women likes me, I can go to work happy and secure. I don’t have to call to see what plans she’s making and what other guy is trying to sweep her off her feet. It all about trust. If she has men after her all the time, she’ll leave for something better on the other side of the fence because I stopped caring.

I initiated the first contact and end of March with a man living 800 miles away. He answered about 6 days later and within a couple weeks we were emailing daily and then he phoned. I did not initiate any more contact after the first email until he complained that he was doing all the work. If we were to continue, he wanted me to be a partner in building our relationship. We met in person, at my hometown, 3 months later and seeing each other every 3 weeks after that in various places. He proposed after Thanksgiving and we were married on New Year’s Eve. Not sure I’d say I pursued him but did feel free to call him whenever I wanted as our friendship developed. Had he not complained early on, I probably would have continued to usually wait for him to email or call until after we were engaged.

Susan, I enjoyed reading your post. Congratulations on your marriage! I think there are shy men and shy women who both find it difficult to initiate contact. However, I think you make a good point that, regardless of who initiates the first date, the relationship is a partnership; each person should ask the other on dates in the relationship. For one thing, it’s nice to have a variety of things to do. In a practical way, each person may have different interests that allow the other person to discover new activities.

I think it is fine for a woman to show her interest in a guy by saying “Hello,” etc. The pursuing, however, should be left up to the man. If a guy is truly interested in a girl, he will move mountains to make it happen. If he is not interested, it simply won’t happen. Girls, don’t waste your time chasing after men. It will never work out.

How do girls feel about being approached and chatted up by guys at the grocery store, after Mass, at the library, a coffee shop, on the street, or at school? Would you girls be put off by a stranger approaching you and making friendly conversation out of the blue and maybe asking for your number, or would you welcome it? Inquiring minds, like mine, want to know!

Friendly conversation out of the blue is delightful….. It’s nice to simply enjoy other human beings! If a pleasant conversation with a stranger in the street/library/coffee-shop led to a request for my number, I might consider it, though I’d be cautious, given today’s moral climate. Full disclosure (because you asked): any woman will be doing a rapid but thorough assessment as to what kind of a guy this is. Doe he seem genuine? Does he actually share an interest in something, or is he just faking it? Does he ask a lot of personal questions, want information about me, etc? (That last is extremely creepy.)
Basically, if it were nice and friendly and totally non-creepy, I’d enjoy it and respond, and possibly give my number.
If it were after mass, though, I’d be a lot more open, as I’d feel that we already had the most important things in common.

Remember . . good guys dont approach women while a stranger in public places . . being cautious doesn’t do it . . give a stranger your number & your simply saying yes to a pick up even if he is a good person lost to this way of life . . your yes to him is also good by to any good man that has respect to give. . . sorry but its the facts of life & a evil one at that .

Bernadette, I think friendly conversation out of the blue is enjoyable, too. Unfortunately, I think a lot of guys are too afraid to approach girls out in public because they are afraid of getting rejected on the spot or seeming creepy. I quit Catholic Match as a paying member quite awhile ago because it seemed better for me to spend time making face-to-face connections; however, I can still be reached via email at keener_jason@yahoo.com for the purposes of friendly conversation (Hint. Hint. LOL.) By the way, I agree that girls should be somewhat cautious about guys who approach out of the blue for safety reasons. Not every guy has good Christian intentions.

Dominic, I know that it has not been a social norm for guys to approach girls out of the blue on the street, after Mass, or in libraries, but why not? I think if a guy sees a girl who he is interested in, he should be the one to make the effort to approach her and start a friendly conversation. A friendly conversation should be a win-win for both the guy and girl, even if there are no numbers exchanged. I also think that guys and girls often fall into unhealthy and unhappy relationships because their options are limited to the few people they might meet at work or school. Chatting to more people opens the door for more opportunities to meet the right person.

Talk to women, by all means, pursue in public, after mass, etc. Just keep your eyes on women’s faces. If they feel they are being evaluated below the collarbone they may take flight. Otherwise, chat us up and ask us out! Ask for her number and CALL!

I don’t see anything wrong with meeting people while out and about. Women are only offended if you’re hitting on them in a disrespectful way. But making friendly conversation isn’t a bad thing, and I have met quality men that way (who did not have nefarious motives).

I think the first thing that needs to be clarified is what it means to “pursue” someone. Joy pointed out the fact that it can mean different things to different people and Bernadette established the fact that there is a distinction between “initiating” and “pursuing.”

When it comes to initiating some form of contact I really don’t think it matters who is taking that step and I don’t think that men are somehow locked into this role of being the only ones who must initiate things. With regards to pursuing, how about the two parties involved pursue each other? If they are truly both interested in each other after that initial contact and getting to know each other a little more, it seems like a mutual pursuit of one another would seem more appropriate. I also think that there will always be one person that takes the initiative more than the other in general simply because of the differences in personalities but the mutual factor is important to ensure some type of balance.

Personally, I don’t particularly favor the approach that a man or woman may adopt where they are absolutely passive and waiting for the other to be the one who always takes charge and initiates everything. As many pointed out here, there are no set rules per se but not being actively involved in this process of discernment would seem to go against simple common sense. God bless and may your future spouse pursue you and be pursued, as lovers are.

Hmm perhaps this is why I have had such a lousy track record with dating. Ive always been shy and dated women who pursued me. They always left me for other men including my ex wife who left me for a co-worker after 17 years. And my ex wife was only my 2nd serious girlfriend I ever had. Hmmm well im too old now to be shy I suppose I got to get to the bottom of this.

I completely and totally agree with #4 in this article. I sit back and think about my relationships with men and yes the Woman the majority of the time WANTS to be pursued. We Want to know that a man is interested enough to go that extra mile to make us certain that he is. I’ve always felt and so have many of my girl friends that when the man is not direct, we remain uncertain of whether or not he’s interested. I really feel that this comes down to the matter of being vulnerable. No one wants to be vulnerable and then completely shut down, but In my opinion there is a certain amount of vulnerability that needs to take place in this situation. Now on the same hand when my girlfriends and I talk about this, we don’t always know right away where we want that guy in our lives. Whether or not we want to keep him in the ‘friend’ zone or take him out and see where things go. So there can be that level of confusion on both ends. But I have to say that in my relationships when the man was persistent but not pushy about his interest in me whether that be a platonic friendship or a gradual relationship it really helped me to make my decision on where I wanted him in my life because I was certain of the way he felt about me.

I liked this article too and agreed with the points joy made. At some level men and women are a mystery to each other. It’s not uncommon that a person will not even consider the perspectives the person of the opposite sex might have in dating. The issue is how do you go from strangers to interested friends? My personal observation is that for most “successfull” relationships women initiate before the man makes his first attempt to pursue the woman. Simply by showing respect and cordiality to a man she will indicate that it’s OK for him to pursue. She shows him that he is accepted as a person. She doesn’t need to make herself emotionally vulnerable in doing so. Those men that she shows disrespect or coldness to she deliberately or subliminally thwarts. The preferred man takes the cue from her and is more bold in showing interest in ways that are flattering to her. Ideally the relationship will grow from there if they are truly interested and compatible.

But there are lots of ways in which this scenario can go wrong. First, the woman may be very interested in him but decides to play “hard to get” in an attempt to test him and make sure she won’t be hurt if she does respond positively. If this charade goes on for a long time, the man may just give up on her if she is not responding positively. (Women: Don’t do this; be honest with him and yourself.) Second, It may turn out that a woman sends positive signals to a man but when he asks her out she is not interested. Then the man has to deal with rejection by someone that he was really attracted to. But since men have feelings too, it makes them more reluctant to pursue other women in the future. ( I have always struggled with this.) Third, The woman may put out positive signals that show she accepts the man, hoping that he will respond, but she get’s a non-response because he is not interested in her. So she ends up feeling hurt and this makes her more reluctant to put out positive signals to other men she may be attracted to in the future. It seems we all have to be allow ourselves to be vulnerable in some way.

In my opinion there don’t need to be rules but there are expectations that people have (male and female) about dating. As much as possible try to meet any, reasonable, legitimate, expectations. I would just say try to be sensitive to other’s feelings and be honest. As it says in Scripture, “Say ‘Yes’ when you mean yes and ‘No’ when you mean no. Everything else comes from the evil one.”

Many women wait for a men to initiate conversation and ask for dates, as a way of making sure that they fit his physical “type”. Let’s face it, men are visual and they might date a lady who initiates contact because she is nice and they are flattered, but will they marry her if she is not the man’s visual “type”? I know that I definitely do not want to get emotionally attached to a man who decides, in the end, that he would rather be with a slender redhead, and dumps me to be with her. Not chasing men is 1) a way for me to act like a lady, but also 2) a way to protect myself from men who prefer another “type”.

Hello Elena , . your still talking about men like as if you know there inner nature that is opposite to yours . . i see you making the innocent mistake of thinking life is simple & all so rosy . . sorry , I really hope your guarding Angel puts up a good fight for you and lets you be one of the lucky ones that get to meet a decent guy because your chances out of a 100 is 5% by your nave views on life . . sorry , Its natural & normal for you to think that way so don’t get me wrong . . That’s why God also gave the gift of Brothers to Sisters .

I agree with Bernadette’s first post. I would feel more comfortable if a man pursued, rather than myself. I have done that a couple of times in past relationships and they were both disasters. Never again. I think when a woman pursues, she appears desperate, whereas a man appears keen and attentive (providing he doesn’t end up stalking! *wink*).
I am old fashioned and I would love a guy to open a door for me. Of course, it needs to work both ways and women can’t expect to receive and give nothing in return…
I’m personally not interested in a man who is arrogant and self-confident to the extreme that he thinks he is the bees knees, but rather a man who is quietly confident and humble, but can speak his mind and take initiative…..

Having experiences where being the woman who pursued only to have it be “disasters” is not a valid way to approach the topic. As a man I have pursued and it has led to many disasters. Does that mean that no one initiates anything because both men and women have experienced disasters after pursuing?

Expectations are ALWAYS bad news, especially when they seem to be only placed on one gender.

Many are unaware of the “new feminist” movement which operates by stealth. They oppose the “old feminists” only in that they disagree with the methods used. If one reads carefully, even though they may seem like the opposite, the hatred of men is still there.