Betting shops & kids - Anyone know the law?

Quick query - I went into a branch of a national & very well known bookmakers this afternoon to place a horsey bet.

I had my baby daughter with me who at 4 months old (already!) was in her pram, asleep.

I walked in, spent a couple of minutes eyeing up the Racing Post on the wall, reading the form etc, wrote out my slip & took it up to the counter.

The lady assistant refused to serve me. She said - and I quote-

"I will get shot - you will have to take the kiddie outside!"

So, because I had our sprog with me, I couldnt be served.

Fair enough if this is the law but a couple of points:

1- I have been in several different bookmakers, including this one, over many years with my other daughter who is now aged 11. On no occasion previously have I been refused service.

2- The staff member today was not busy. She sat there & watched me enter the shop, look at the form papers on the wall, write out the slip & approach the counter. This all took approx 4-5 minutes. She only ordered me to leave when I gave her my slip.

I tried to reason with her & query her point but she point blank refused to say any more so I thought 'up yours' and left!

I checked & double checked & there was no sticker or sign on the door or shop frontage stating no children were allowed.

wow thats good odds brah, I was betting on the horses today too, Im up about tree fiddy

7th Oct 2008

No one under the age of 18 is allowed on the premises as it is illegal for them to participate in gambling, by being with you they are participating regardless of age

It's the same as me asking if I went clubbing on Friday if I can take my 9 month old daughter with me, she wont be drinking and i'll supervise her at all times but somehow I think it is a no

7th Oct 2008

Betting shops, gaming clubs and bingo

If you are under 18 you may not go into a public betting shop or gaming club. You can go into a licensed bingo club where bingo is played as long as you do not take part in the game

7th Oct 2008

Betting and gambling

It is an offence for anybody to have a betting transaction with a person they know, or ought to know, is under 18.Betting shops, gaming clubs and bingo

If you are under 18 you may not go into a public betting shop or gaming club. You can go into a licensed bingo club where bingo is played as long as you do not take part in the game. In Northern Ireland, the legal age for football pool betting is 16.Fruit machines

In England and Wales, if you are under 16, you can go into arcades but must not play on fruit machines giving a £10 or more cash payout. If you are between 14-18 you can go into a pub, but you are not allowed to play on fruit machines with a cash payout of £10 or more. A sign stating that the machines are restricted to over-18s must be displayed. There is no lower age limit for playing on fruit machines with a maximum cash or token prize of up to £8. In Northern Ireland, there is no lower age limit for playing on fruit machines with a maximum cash prize of £8 in amusement arcades and similar premises. The maximum prize in a pub is £15 cash. There is no legal age restriction on playing fruit machines in pubs, but different premises may have different rules.Lottery tickets and scratch cards

If you are under 16, you are not allowed to buy tickets (or scratch cards) in a registered public lottery. You are allowed to buy tickets in a private lottery.

7th Oct 2008

black gerbil1;3143482

wow thats good odds brah, I was betting on the horses today too, Im up … wow thats good odds brah, I was betting on the horses today too, Im up about tree fiddy

this guy cracks me up. :w00t:

Original Poster

7th Oct 2008

All tthe above is all well & good but the above should then be applied by all staff in all betting shops.

As I said, I have been in this & other betting shops with my other kiddy countless times over the years & never had a problem before.

And on Grand national day this year the place was full of children because the staff were giving them all free balloons & sweets!!

So there must be some discrepancy/bending of the rules somewhere??And should there not be signage on the front of the shop stating the rules - I checked & double checked & there wasn't.

In the night club scenario above a doorman wouldnt let a 9month kiddy in. There would also be signs somewhere stating the age reestrictions.

All tthe above is all well & good but the above should then be applied by … All tthe above is all well & good but the above should then be applied by all staff in all betting shops.As I said, I have been in this & other betting shops with my other kiddy countless times over the years & never had a problem before.And on Grand national day this year the place was full of children because the staff were giving them all free balloons & sweets!!So there must be some discrepancy/bending of the rules somewhere??

The law was tightened up recently.If you have taken your kids in and been allowed to place a bet over the past year or so, then you should be complaining to those shops/staff members, not complaining about this one who was doing her job properly.

The law was tightened up recently.If you have taken your kids in and been … The law was tightened up recently.If you have taken your kids in and been allowed to place a bet over the past year or so, then you should be complaining to those shops/staff members, not complaining about this one who was doing her job properly.

Well I'm not complaining - just seeing if somebody can give me some definite, quoted clarification.The law is the law, even in this country, & if under 18's aren't allowed in by law, then so be it & I won't do it again. Ever.

In this case though with the law as it is, then in this very same branch of Bookies on Grand National Day this year, when there were at least 6 kids of all ages (under 18 definitely) getting free sweets & balloons while their adult guardians were placing Grand National bets, then the Manager of the shop with all the other staff must have all been breaking the law?

Despite all the quotes & 'castigations' above, still seems a bit grey to me.

Banned

8th Oct 2008

karaokecolin;3143680

Despite all the quotes & 'castigations' above, still seems a bit grey to … Despite all the quotes & 'castigations' above, still seems a bit grey to me.

If you are under 18 you may not go into a public betting shop or gaming … If you are under 18 you may not go into a public betting shop or gaming club.

Whats grey about that? I don't really see how it could be much clearer.

Original Poster

8th Oct 2008

colinsunderland;3143707

Whats grey about that? I don't really see how it could be much clearer.

Yep - as I said, the quotes if they are correct are very clear.

What seems grey is the fact that this same branch allowed children - no- welcomed children of all ages- in on Grand National Day with parents who were betting, yet today didnt allow them in.

I'm not complaining about this, merely querying it.

If the law as above clearly states they shouldn't, then to me that seems rather grey, as it mentions no exclusion, discretion or special condition for Grand National Day.

Either the Law, the bookmaker shop in question, or the bookamker industry if this is industry wide as these laws usually are, is sending out a mixed message to the customer if they abide by the above laws one minute, then clearly do not the next.

I ain't gonna lose sleep over it anyway - just curious.Maybe I will go & ask to speak to the shop manager next time I'm in there for his/her clarification. Obviously when I've not got any of the kiddies with me!!

8th Oct 2008

RedIron;3143488

No one under the age of 18 is allowed on the premises as it is illegal … No one under the age of 18 is allowed on the premises as it is illegal for them to participate in gambling, by being with you they are participating regardless of ageIt's the same as me asking if I went clubbing on Friday if I can take my 9 month old daughter with me, she wont be drinking and i'll supervise her at all times but somehow I think it is a no

What a load of rubbish :? kids are aloud in racecourses, greyhound tracks and seaside arcades even football grounds have betting shops in now so its all ******** really. The jobsworth behind the counter should get a personalty if you ask me, as if she is going to get in trouble by having a little 4 month old baby a sleep in the pram in the shop its laughable.

And the comparison with you taking your 9 months baby clubbing with you and taking a baby in the bookies :w00t: are you sure !!!

Banned

8th Oct 2008

waterloo;3143789

What a load of rubbish :? kids are aloud in racecourses, greyhound … What a load of rubbish :? kids are aloud in racecourses, greyhound tracks and seaside arcades even football grounds have betting shops in now so its all ******** really. The jobsworth behind the counter should get a personalty if you ask me, as if she is going to get in trouble by having a little 4 month old baby a sleep in the pram in the shop its laughable.

It's not rubbish at all, racecourses, greyhound tracks and seaside arcades are not betting shops and kids aren't allowed in betting shops at football grounds, so don't really see why you mentioned them.The 'jobsworth' as you put it would get into trouble, and most likely sacked if she got caught serving him, but I suppose as jobs are so easy to come by these days she should have served him anyway?

Original Poster

8th Oct 2008

I do think a lot of the above comments are actually missing my point.

Firstly, all I was asking for is clarification. I'm not complaining.Secondly, whether or not children are or aren't allowed in bookmaker shops etc is one thing, but my point is why was I told yesterday they weren't when oin the same shop on Grand National day they were welcomed with freebies etc.

Surely a law as fixed as a Gambling Law doesnt allow such exclusions/discretions as this would send out a mixed message to the balanced youth of Great Britain?

As far as the lady who served me yesterday, if she was right or wrong in doing what she did is one thing, my only point as regards to her being that she watched me walk in, choose the horse, write out a slip, approcah the counter, all of which took about 5minutes, & then asked me to leave.

Her actions would suggest children are allowed in as long as I don't place a bet! Or wasn't she sure??

Anyway, I'm going to speak to the shop manager for their clarification when I get chance.

8th Oct 2008

its like when we stopped at a services once and they have the arcades room (over 18s only)... my 3 year old was loving all the oretty colours and jus wanted to go inside and have a look but it was a big no no....they gotta be strict i guess?

8th Oct 2008

colinsunderland;3143845

It's not rubbish at all, racecourses, greyhound tracks and seaside … It's not rubbish at all, racecourses, greyhound tracks and seaside arcades are not betting shops and kids aren't allowed in betting shops at football grounds, so don't really see why you mentioned them.The 'jobsworth' as you put it would get into trouble, and most likely sacked if she got caught serving him, but I suppose as jobs are so easy to come by these days she should have served him anyway?

What are you talking about !!! racecourses, greyhound tracks etc etc are betting establishments also these have a betting shop inside the grandstands with no restrictions on kids you can get as close as you want to the gambling side of things at these places. Most football grounds inc our national stadium what has about 50 counters also have no barrier's or doors to stop kids going up to the counter and seeing the betting paraphernalia so that's why i mention it its exactly the same :thinking:

The jobsworth as i put it would not have lost her job you need to get real i have been in the betting industry for years and im a owner and have never seen this happen once anywhere i bet if this was on national or derby day she would have not worried about it then as its more money for the shop.

8th Oct 2008

used to go to the bookies with my dad on grand national day + loved it, however, i have now worked at the race tracks+ bookmakers now for 8 years and have loved every bit of it apart from turning away parents with beautiful kids, however it is definatley the law, and ive worked in over 20 branches of my company and everyone of them displays no under 18's signs, however anyone who has read/heard the news in the glasgow,will be aware of the amount of robberies latley, i am now off my work, upset, shaky and bored as my shop was held up yesterday morning as soon i as i opened up, was threatened to be shot by a junkie unless i gave him all the money.. wish we could ban the drug addicts instead of kids!!

8th Oct 2008

hi im a manager at william hills and the law is no one under the age of 18 is allowed to enter the shop it dosnt matter wheather they are betting or using the toliet its against the law to enter. the whole reasoning behind it from the gambling commissions is we have a duty to protect children and vaunarable people. Last sept the laws did change and got alot strickter i have to fill a form out everyday to say if there has been any under age inncidents and the gambling commisions do visits as well to check we are doing our jobs properly. The lady behind the counter did her job properly by refusing to serve you and asking you to leave however if she saw you enter with the child she should have came straight out to you and asked you to leave then not waited till u came to the counter proberly just lazyness. They defo shouldn have been giving out stuff to kids on any day thats breaking the law. you would be surprised about the amount of people/parents who dont realise its breaking the law and it dosnt help when people dont do there jobs properly as you get mixed messages then, but on the front door it must say no under 18 allowed and if it dosnt they are breaking the law and can get in serious trouble hope this has helped a bit

Banned

8th Oct 2008

waterloo;3146233

What are you talking about !!! racecourses, greyhound tracks etc etc are … What are you talking about !!! racecourses, greyhound tracks etc etc are betting establishments also these have a betting shop inside the grandstands with no restrictions on kids you can get as close as you want to the gambling side of things at these places. Most football grounds inc our national stadium what has about 50 counters also have no barrier's or doors to stop kids going up to the counter and seeing the betting paraphernalia so that's why i mention it its exactly the same :thinking: The jobsworth as i put it would not have lost her job you need to get real i have been in the betting industry for years and im a owner and have never seen this happen once anywhere i bet if this was on national or derby day she would have not worried about it then as its more money for the shop.

Well i seriously think you need to get some up to date training.A racecourse is not a betting shop, it is a racecourse. The law does not prevent minors entering a racecourse, but it does prevent them entering a betting shop, being involved in the betting industry for so many years you should know that.

8th Oct 2008

it really annoys me when people say jobsworth about people who are following precedure and doing there jobs correct the people say who say this are usually the lazy ones who cant be bothered to do there job properly in my experience anyway

Original Poster

8th Oct 2008

bellows;3148184

hi im a manager at william hills and the law is no one under the age of … hi im a manager at william hills and the law is no one under the age of 18 is allowed to enter the shop it dosnt matter wheather they are betting or using the toliet its against the law to enter. the whole reasoning behind it from the gambling commissions is we have a duty to protect children and vaunarable people. Last sept the laws did change and got alot strickter i have to fill a form out everyday to say if there has been any under age inncidents and the gambling commisions do visits as well to check we are doing our jobs properly. The lady behind the counter did her job properly by refusing to serve you and asking you to leave however if she saw you enter with the child she should have came straight out to you and asked you to leave then not waited till u came to the counter proberly just lazyness. They defo shouldn have been giving out stuff to kids on any day thats breaking the law. you would be surprised about the amount of people/parents who dont realise its breaking the law and it dosnt help when people dont do there jobs properly as you get mixed messages then, but on the front door it must say no under 18 allowed and if it dosnt they are breaking the law and can get in serious trouble hope this has helped a bit

:-D Thanks - this was the type of answer I was hoping for!! repped.

Factual & non accusing.

I popped back into the betting shop today & spoke to the deputy manageress. She basically said as above - it wasn't a William Hill btw - a rival!

She said that although she knows there were children in there on Grand National Day ( & also Boxing Day apparently!) she couldnt comment on the whys & wherefores because that was a decision made by the manager at that time who no longer works for the company anymore.She did agree that I should have been advised politely & immediately upon entering the shop & assured me that this policy will be reviewed to all their staff this week as part of their ongoing training.She apologised but as I said on here - I'm not complaining- just wanted clarification.

She also promised to have the correct notices in the window & around the shop by the end of today - she explained they were new notices that were larger for specification purposes. I took her word on that one.:whistling:

Now then - what about internet betting - do I have to getthe kids to go outside the house if I punt online :w00t: joke by the way before you all start!!

9th Oct 2008

glad i could help cheers for repp :thumbsup:

9th Oct 2008

bellows;3148184

hi im a manager at william hills and the law is no one under the age of … hi im a manager at william hills and the law is no one under the age of 18 is allowed to enter the shop it dosnt matter wheather they are betting or using the toliet its against the law to enter. the whole reasoning behind it from the gambling commissions is we have a duty to protect children and vaunarable people. Last sept the laws did change and got alot strickter i have to fill a form out everyday to say if there has been any under age inncidents and the gambling commisions do visits as well to check we are doing our jobs properly. The lady behind the counter did her job properly by refusing to serve you and asking you to leave however if she saw you enter with the child she should have came straight out to you and asked you to leave then not waited till u came to the counter proberly just lazyness. They defo shouldn have been giving out stuff to kids on any day thats breaking the law. you would be surprised about the amount of people/parents who dont realise its breaking the law and it dosnt help when people dont do there jobs properly as you get mixed messages then, but on the front door it must say no under 18 allowed and if it dosnt they are breaking the law and can get in serious trouble hope this has helped a bit

Surely if that is the Law why is it not stated on the front door of every bookmakers nationwide? I have been to William Hills on many occasionswith my 9 year old son in hand and never have been asked to leave. I do think its the Betting shops duty to ensure that the punter knows the laws and regulatations of its shop. Having this on the door would be a simple solution for everyone.

9th Oct 2008

kemo like i said every betting shop must have a no under 18 sign on the front door and if they do not they are breaking the law and i agree with you it is the shops duty as i can see why people would think it may be ok as long as they werent betting as kids can go into other places where gambling happens but unfortunitly not everyone does there job properly usually due to lazyness or turning a blind eye cause they dont want any grief from the parent having a go but this just makes everyone else job harder cause people get mixed messages and then have a go at the people who are doing there jobs properly