Modularization/IRCLOGS/20090505.log

(15:00:00) liutao: Morning Ingo
(15:00:02) liutao: morning kay
(15:00:07) is_: hello and good Morning
(15:00:19) kr: good morning everybody :)
(15:00:31) _ch_: hi, Good morning! :)
(15:01:05) xiuzhi: hi all
(15:02:05) liutao: many supports:)
(15:02:28) kr: yeah, seems that people _are_ interested in some modularization :)
(15:03:32) kr: I am going to ask Louis to set up the incubator project etc., or does anybody else want to do that?
(15:03:35) xiuzhi: yes. many people want to have this feature "build helper"
(15:04:29) liutao: O,already start....
(15:04:31) liutao: Agenda
(15:04:31) liutao: 1.The result of the proposal.
(15:04:31) liutao: 2.Put the plan into practice .
(15:04:31) liutao: 3.Open discussion.
(15:04:35) xiuzhi: kr: you are the good candidator
(15:04:43) liutao: 1.The result of the proposal.
(15:04:57) liutao: Kay have already told us.
(15:05:05) liutao: 2.Put the plan into practice .
(15:05:20) xiuzhi: liutao: a second
(15:06:46) liutao: I am going to ask Louis to set up the incubator project etc., or does anybody else want to do that? -- you are the good candidator:)
(15:07:11) kr: ... ok, going to do so ... :-)
(15:07:19) liutao: 2.Put the plan into practice .
(15:07:57) liutao: what is the concretely work that we can do now? I sent a Email to you last week.
(15:09:28) kr: What do you want to start with? Is it the "build helper", or do you want to work on some concrete "modules"?
(15:10:57) is_: I think the understanding of the product creation is very important. Do you know the "centralized" scp2 module?
(15:11:49) liutao: is_: I know a little, I think _ch_ know it.
(15:12:48) liutao: kr:do you think this two work can be done simultaneously?
(15:13:35) kr: liutao: yes, work on the "build helper" and on "modularization" can be done concurrently
(15:13:48) liutao: kr:I perfer to start with build helper,but don't know what should i to do now
(15:14:10) _ch_: is_: I know the scp2 is used to make up setup scripts. :)
(15:14:13) liutao: perfer/prefer
(15:14:20) kr: liutao: let me quickly summarize how I imagine the "build helper" ...
(15:15:00) liutao: kr:ok
(15:15:33) kr: liutao: ... ideally it would be directly executable from the OOo site - e.g. like Java WebStart - after clicking it, a kind of wizard would show up ...
(15:15:59) liutao: yes
(15:16:33) kr: liutao: ... the wizard (AKA build helper) knows about the platform it runs on and offers to install needed prerequisites as well as to select the features to build ...
(15:17:51) kr: liutao: ... while selecting features it ensures that dependencies are ensured (e.g. selecting the "help" features ensures that the (needed parts of) writer is selected as well) ...
(15:18:39) liutao: yes
(15:18:56) xiuzhi: is_: I just email you last meeting's log. please check it . I forgot it last week
(15:19:28) kr: liutao: ... the build helper should know about all features available at "configure" time and their dependencies, including prerequisites .
(15:20:26) kr: liutao: ... the whole thing may look somewhat like the OOo windows installation dialog, where you can (de-)select some of OOos features
(15:20:34) is_: xiuzhi: ah, thank you, it already arrived :-)
(15:21:02) liutao: yes
(15:21:04) liutao: I see
(15:22:04) kr: liutao: the "build helper" may also care about checking out the sources, pulling only what's needed to build an OOo according to the selected feature set ...
(15:23:01) kr: liutao: ... may be even supporting multiple source directories, to ease re-usage of stuff, later on supporting some kind of pre-builds ...
(15:23:18) liutao: kr:OH...,It seems a functional tools...
(15:23:36) kr: liutao: ... could you follow or were my explanations to brief ?
(15:23:52) liutao: kr:yes I see
(15:24:26) kr: liutao: the "build helper" could become something as a "control center" for building OOo
(15:26:31) is_: kr: do you have an idea, how to break this big task into smaller tasks, that are easier to handle? I suggested, that understanding scp could be a good starting point.
(15:27:01) kr: is_: you mean the "build helper"?
(15:27:24) is_: kr: yes, it is a big task, dont you think so?
(15:27:58) liutao: is_:oh...yes, it is a big task....
(15:28:10) kr: is_: mmmhhh, I actually thought it to be simple and not to hard ...
(15:29:03) is_: and it is absolutely necessary to understand the current build process.
(15:29:05) liutao: kr: I agree with ingo,I think we need a starting point.
(15:29:40) kr: I think I would just start with a webstart application, allowing to checkout the OOo source and to install all current prerequisites
(15:30:05) kr: ... that shouldn't be to hard
(15:30:30) kr: ... am I missing anything?
(15:30:47) is_: ... and playing with scp2 to create different products would also be a good preparation.
(15:31:19) kr: agreed, though can postpone that for a while, to get something running already
(15:31:55) kr: there _are_ already many configure switches and needed preqs to be taken care of
(15:32:15) kr: ... not to mention the platforms
(15:34:29) is_: kr: so you want a wrapper for our build environment without taking care of any specific module at the moment?
(15:35:16) kr: in the first step just taking care of the base minimum, means source code and prerequisites ...
(15:35:46) is_: ... and creation of changed products comes later?
(15:35:57) kr: we may than add support for the various "configure" switches and their dependencies (against each other and the preqs) ...
(15:36:58) kr: being ready and having something running, we may want to tackle further modularization, which now is easy to configure because of the "build helper" ...
(15:37:27) kr: ... though we may want to work on some concrete modularization and the "build helper" simultanesouly, as suggested by liutao
(15:38:36) is_: I think the "build helper" should know at the beginning, that he later will be used for modularization. But that is perhaps already too detailed.
(15:39:36) kr: is_: just keep it simple - we likely iterate over the build helper multiple times
(15:40:25) xiuzhi: kr:agree. in the first version of "buildhelper",it should be as simple as possible. checkout+prerequisites
(15:40:42) is_: kr: I fully agree, keeping it simple is absolutely necessary for this complex task.
(15:41:04) kr: yes exactly, would like to avoid any "master plan" with a too high stack, rather get something running and helpful quickly :)
(15:42:57) is_: kr: do you think we need some of our updaters in this group? They are the master of the build environment.
(15:44:24) kr: is_: I have a meeting with Ause on Thursday about his l10ncleaup CWS, I ask him if he (or may be one of the other updaters) wants to join
(15:44:56) kr: is_: though the "build helper" just sits "ontop" of the build env
(15:45:36) is_: kr: yes, you are right. An updater could be useful for specific questions, but not in every meeting.
(15:45:50) xiuzhi: agree
(15:48:38) liutao: anything else about this item? ---- 2.Put the plan into practice .
(15:49:43) is_: not at the moment, but surely in the future :-)
(15:49:53) kr: as long as we all think that we understand where to head with the "build helper" I say ... let's start :)
(15:49:54) xiuzhi: kr: Need liutao or _ch_ do some help you to create the first build helper webstart application,?
(15:50:30) kr: xiuzhi: I hoped that liutao and _ch_ just can create the first version etc.
(15:50:56) xiuzhi: kr: we need a webserver, needn't it? do you have one now?
(15:51:44) kr: xiuzhi: we may directly use our brand new incubator project "modularization.openoffice.org" - after Louis created it
(15:52:24) xiuzhi: kr: aha. yes. we can use it at the first step
(15:53:33) liutao: kr:You mean that _ch_ and I to create the first version?
(15:54:44) kr: liutao: yes, please
(15:56:32) kr: liutao: ... may be we could a first webstart application (w/o functionality) running already next week?
(15:57:01) kr: liutao: just something to click which than says "here I am" or so :)
(15:58:00) xiuzhi: kr:the first specification is: a webstart application with a button, says "here I am"
(15:58:43) kr: xiuzhi: yes, and it should be available from the upcoming "modularization.openoffice.org" site
(15:59:18) kr: does that sound reasonable?
(16:04:02) liutao: kr:It looks like to create a web page?
(16:05:15) kr: liutao: yes, this is simple - I can do that :)
(16:07:03) xiuzhi: kr: which kind of architicture will we use ,B/S or C/S?
(16:08:09) kr: xiuzhi: could you elaborate?
(16:09:13) kr: xiuzhi: I would expect a simple application, being able to check out and to download some source and binaries
(16:09:43) liutao: kr:If there is a application in server?maybe the application is a some words:"here I am",when the user click it ,"here I am" will appear? I think it is to create a web page.
(16:10:59) kr: hey guys, just keep it simple :) - I am just thinking of a small application, startable via webstart, opening a window saying "here I am :)"
(16:11:13) xiuzhi: kr: ok
(16:11:36) liutao: kr:I see,do you mean: there is a link(maybe), after I click it , a shell will pop up. then we can do anything......
(16:11:39) kr: this basically means to create a jar file, upload that to the "modularization" site, and to add a webstart link in the main page
(16:12:10) kr: ... does somebody already has some experience with webstart?
(16:13:10) kr: just try http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/desktop/javawebstart/demos.html
(16:13:45) liutao: to send you the jar file after to create it?
(16:14:34) kr: you can just upload it to the site, e.g. by checking it into the underlying (CVS) repository
(16:15:34) xiuzhi: we have lot of java developers , I think they know that. I think liutao and _ch_ can finish it before next Tuesday
(16:15:47) xiuzhi: liutao: just do it
(16:16:18) liutao: ok
(16:18:11) liutao: anything else in this item?
(16:18:35) liutao: 3.Open discussion.
(16:19:29) kr: we are already over time - so I would like to move further discussions to next weeks meeting - is that OK?
(16:19:38) xiuzhi: +1
(16:19:45) is_: +1
(16:19:57) _ch_: +1 :)
(16:20:03) liutao: ok
(16:20:19) liutao: so close this meeting.
(16:20:23) liutao: bye all.
(16:20:26) xiuzhi: bye all
(16:20:26) kr: ok, looking forward to our next meeting :) - bye bye
(16:20:27) is_: so have a nice evening. Good bye.