GOP Rep. Zach Wamp talks of secession

By Emi Kolawole
Opposition to the monumental health-care law and other major legislative initiatives pushed by the Obama White House is so fierce in conservative precincts that some activists and elected officials are talking about secession.

Rep. Zack Wamp (R-Tenn.), in an interview with Hotline on Call, was the latest to raise the idea. "I hope that the American people will go to the ballot box in 2010 and 2012 so that states are not forced to consider separation from this government," he said.

Wamp, who is running in a three-way primary race to replace Tenn. Gov. Phil Bredesen (D), blamed the government for putting voters and state legislatures in a difficult spot and praised Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R), who raised the topic of session in 2009 after an anti-tax tea party rally.

"Patriots like Rick Perry have talked about these issues because the federal government is putting us in an untenable position at the state level," said Wamp.

In correspondence with Hotline, both of Wamp's competitors, Bill Haslam and Ron Ramsey, agreed that they wanted voters to change Washington's political makeup, but they refused to stand with Wamp when it came to secession. Ramsey called the remarks just another example of Wamp's "over-the-top temperament and overheated, sometimes crazy rhetoric."

Wamp didn't go so far as to say he would push for secession if re-elected. Instead, he vowed to pressure Democrats via other means, telling Hotline he would "work with other governors and use the leverage that other governors have under the 10th amendment to basically let the White House and the executive branch and the congress know states are tired of being run over."

Personally, I think all who do not want the HCB or taxes should move to the south and sucede.

I'd prefer to have my taxes raised. And I mean RAISED. Raise them to the point where we all get healthcare and we can have public schooling through the first four years of college. The fact that families have to go into debt for years and years to pay for their children's education is non-sustainable, as far as keeping up with China and other countries around the world.

I bought the Chicago Tribune's special victory edition for Obama because I knew the day before the IL Lottery had drawn 666.
Lo and Behold ! Yes, the Lottery draw was on Page 2, back-to-back with Obama's victory front page cover.
I made an article and published the two photos of the newspaper.
They're here in this link:

And no aid to LA, AL, TX, MS to help with the families and businesses who've been ruined because of failed Republican policies.

Posted by: dcp26851 | July 24, 2010 7:34 PM |
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That'd be great, but helpless is just no good without ruined. No aid, but you gotta send us another Rick Perry or Joe Barton.

We've been jonesing helpless ever since Halliburton moved to Abu Dhabi. Hope you understand.

The American people decided the best direction, was to change directions. The minority party being kicked out has become unruly, uncivilized and seemingly incapable of thinking about the United States of America. State Rights being a focal point basically angered because the people do not wish to maintain the status quo. A system whereas the few are overseer of the many. Just work to destroy from within. Seems like how the delusional and powerful few started the American Civil War.

When Texas through South Carolina secede again, here is a surefire formula for succeeding in the ensuing struggle:

1. Bid them farewell and good riddance this time. Welcome any unionists moving north.
2. Wait for the new Confederacy to become a third world country. In the meantime, pass the real reforms that southern reactionaries previously blocked or watered down.
3. Declare victory.

The fools like Guv. Perry and Wampie boy who suggestion succession have no friggin' idea what they are suggesting. These states would need to form a new federal government from each state that succeeded and would lose all of the benefits and financial assistance provided by Washington (e.g. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, student loans, grants, etc). You can bet a very large majority of citizens who lived in the succeeding states would depart as soon as humanely possible to avoid the devastation to their lives. And frankly, this hollow threat to succeed does not frighten anybody outside those impacted citizens since their succession would hardly impact our lives at all. In fact, the United States would probably be healthier financially if Tennesee and Texas and other southern states did succeed while it would completely turn their worlds upside down. So, frankly, as a Democrat, I hope you small-brained Republican politicians keep talking about succession, as it shows you how stupid you really are. Plus, most thinking persons would be absolutely overjoyed if anyone who respected the likes of GW Bush, Sarah Palin, Guv. Perry, Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck left the country permanently. Perhaps we could then turn this giant Republican created mess in government around instead of trying to convince imbeciles who lack gray matter that deficits really do matter and that Jesus really did not believe it was okay to go into other countries and "take out" (i.e. murder) the leaders with whom the US President disagreed.

The problem lies with Texas v. White, specifically:
When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.

Considered therefore as transactions under the Constitution, the ordinance of secession, adopted by the convention and ratified by a majority of the citizens of Texas, and all the acts of her legislature intended to give effect to that ordinance, were absolutely null. They were utterly without operation in law. The obligations of the State, as a member of the Union, and of every citizen of the State, as a citizen of the United States, remained perfect and unimpaired. It certainly follows that the State did not cease to be a State, nor her citizens to be citizens of the Union. If this were otherwise, the State must have become foreign, and her citizens foreigners. The war must have ceased to be a war for the suppression of rebellion, and must have become a war for conquest and subjugation.

Our conclusion therefore is that Texas continued to be a State, and a State of the Union, notwithstanding the transactions to which we have referred. And this conclusion, in our judgment, is not in conflict with any act or declaration of any department of the National government, but entirely in accordance with the whole series of such acts and declarations since the first outbreak of the rebellion.

TexRancher @ July 24, 2010 7:56 AM: No one is afraid of anything. It is astounding how easily treason comes to some groups. As for Texas, do you know how much more it collects gfrom the Federal government than it pays? Texas is on welfare! As for the many facilities Texas has, take a guess how quickly they will disappear once it is no longer part of the US. Face it, you scrape the bottom when it comes to servicesw for the people, and you will be third world if you leave us and we no longer support you.

Just do me a favor: I know I am guessing, but your post is in character: take down the American flag from your truck, and keep just the traitors' flag.

This Wamp goofball wants to be governor of Tennessee. His reputation for outrageous, poorly thought-out declarations and efforts to crank back reality to 1951 are well known here. Secede from the US? Many of us living in the 21 century wish he would.

koygbd1 wrote; In a democracy.......
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What you don't seem to get is that our democracy and free enterprise system is being torn apart, therefore your premise is invalid. Radicals are in charge because the majority was duped.

The only way states will start seceding is when our democracy is destroyed. Then the patriots will take action and prevail.

For this man to claim to be a "patriot" while talking of succession is pure hipocracy. In a democracy such as ours the majority rules, and elections have consequences. IF the electorate is truely as outraged as Mr. Wamp then his view will prevail. If not Mr Wamp should accept the fact that his is not the majority opinion and go away. To talk of succession is treasonous - not patriotic!

For this man to claim to be a "patriot" while talking of succession is pure hipocracy. In a democracy such as ours the majority rules, and elections have consequences. IF the electorate is truely as outraged as Mr. Wamp then his view will prevail. If not Mr Wamp should accept the fact that his is not the majority opinion and go away. To talk of succession is treasonous - not patriotic!

Actually, this is a rather forward-thinking suggestion for a Republican. Most of their ideas seem to come from the Dark or Middle Ages lately... But if you expect any "leadership" from Texas Gov Rick Perry aka "Gov Goodhair" I'm warning you, I live here in Texas, and he makes Sarah Palin and George Dumbya Bush look like deep, thoughtful, intellectuals...

States that secede are committing acts of war against the United States and should be treated as hostile countries. A little shock and awe would be just the thing to whip Zach Wamp into line. Better yet, prevent FedEx from flying to any airport in the United States until they register as a foreign air carrier and surrender their rights to carry freight on domestic routes within the US. That would give any Tennesseean pause.

It would appear that all the arguments, sound bites, attacks, and complaints from the "trolls" who inhabit the "netherworld" of the exstream republican right are ALL based upon bogus information or outright lies.

These people are ether deliberately ignorant of the facts or are they are liers.

These clowns want to call talk of succesion from the Unided States of America as being somehow "patriotic"??

"Patriotic" to which country - the United States of America or the "Confederate States of America"?

This clown is a traitor. Most Tea Partiers are just a few beers away from being traitors themselves (or worse).

These clowns are no more "patriots" than were those degenerate criminals who blew up the Federal Offce Building in OK City.

Where do they find all these knuckleheads??

And why do they insist on electing them ALL to higher government offices??

One begs to ask the question - just what is the vision for America that these traitors and morons have?

One can just imagine the kind of living h-e-l-l they want to force upon us all...

Why do you engage in a fallacy of false equivalency by comparing the satirical remarks of a non-elected Democratic party official, in the Washington Times article you linked to in your last paragraph, with those of a seated member of the US Congress? If you think this will convince wrong-wingers of your neutrality, you "mis-underestimate" the depths of their paranoia towards the "liberal" media. If you did this as a joke, it went over MY head.

DUDE!!! Get a grip. I live in Texas too and believe me it also has a lot of issues! I doubt that "Libruls" fear Texas leaving the Union more than likely people will be happy that gullible people will flock to Texas...

Posted by: catmomtx | July 24, 2010 11:13 AM |
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I live in Texas (only 22 years, I'm new in town), and I'm quite fond of Texans, the ones that used to get Molly Ivins' jokes anyway.

But Texans are not just road kill on the Information Highway, this stuff has been going on since the beginning ...

Sam Houston was evicted as Governor because he would not swear a loyalty oath to the Confederacy. Apparently he thought slavery was wrong. Too bad, he was a master strategist (look how he yanked Santa Anna's chain), and "The Cause" certainly could have used him at Vicksburg.

Spindletop took in 80M in investments and pumped 50M in oil. To the locals this was a 130M transfer to their pockets as "Free Enterprise", to a hedge fund manager on Wall St. this was excessive Government Anti-Business regulation, or something.

Lincoln freed the slaves and in doing so enslaved the poor and the weak. Northern Commercial interests "imposed" their methods on Southern Commercial interests, made them use green money or something. Essentially it was a nomenclature change - (United States) Union ver. 2.0. Those nice fellas in Washington still let the Southern States keep control of labor issues, which until the disappearance of the Frontier in the early 20th Century worked out pretty well. Lunch Counter owners who wanted to sell as many sandwiches as possible failed to see the persistent virtues of Jim Crow, which died hard.

Now the States must compete with Sovereigns the only way they ever knew how - exploiting the poor and weak as labor. What would save them is the ability to negotiate trade issues as a block, but that would be to admit that people not Commerce drives the world and that the Supreme Court's "corporate people" are not American Citizens.

Posted by: TexRancher | July 24, 2010 7:56 AM Wow! I've never seen such a knee jerk reaction to words like secession or maybe nullification....What is it that liberals fear so much?
Could it be that they know Texas is capable of being totally self sufficient, that 85% of refined petroleum comes from Texas, that the largest armor trainning facility is in Texas, that the finest Air Force trainning facility is in Texas along with the best military medial facilites are also in Texas?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

DUDE!!! Get a grip. I live in Texas too and believe me it also has a lot of issues! I doubt that "Libruls" fear Texas leaving the Union more than likely people will be happy that gullible people will flock to Texas. They would leave the welfare rolls eager to live in the frontier land that would never exist without the tax dollars received from the Federal Government. I mean you do realize that if Texas secedes that that the Air Force training facility, those wonderful hospitals ect. would cease to exist, right?

I thought this issue had been settled in 1865 at the cost of hundreds of thousands of American lives. It is "The United States is..." and not "The United States are...." The elected officials who pander to the fears and prejudices of a minority dishonor these dead, show no real understanding of US history, and show disrespect for the majority of Americans who vote, honor the results of the election and wait until the next election. I wouldn't say that they are traitors but they certainly are arrogant and even stupid.

There is a small matter of the Constitution and the fact that the USA has the Army, Navy, Air Force, etc., Another attempt would be even more of a disaster than the last time seceding was tried. But they would not have the old people to worry about because the highways would be clogged with them leaving him state that seceded - heading somewhere to keep thier Social Security and Medicare. How did the right become such a pitiful characature of some of the great Republican statesmen of the past?

What part of "INDIVISIBLE" does numnuts not understand? Who elected that clown?
These guys are enemies of the Constitution!
"To form a more perfect UNION..."
It is true that most of the budget deficit could be cured by letting the economically parasitical states go, Tennessee being an example...they take in about a buck and a half, maybe two, for every tax dollar collected.

But I don't want to let 'em go. I want to hang or guillotine all traitors, especially the ones in elected offices.

I'm not in favor of secession. However, I think the Arizona illegal immigration law has brought the issue of states' rights to the forefront of discussion. I don't think we've seen the issue of states' rights so hotly debated since the Civil War. If this issue becomes more hotly contested in the future, then succession, or even another civil war, may be in our future.

Wow! I've never seen such a knee jerk reaction to words like secession or maybe nullification....What is it that liberals fear so much?
Could it be that they know Texas is capable of being totally self sufficient, that 85% of refined petroleum comes from Texas, that the largest armor trainning facility is in Texas, that the finest Air Force trainning facility is in Texas along with the best military medial facilites are also in Texas?
Could it be that as one liberal put it this morning, "liberals have guns, too" knowing full well that Texans won't give up their guns and the liberals in Washington are doing all they can to take them from American citizens and that includes liberals?
All the vicious comments from liberals about secession sound more like FEAR to me! The louder, more often they scream, the more fear they project. After all, they know that they can't trust their phony C.S. president and he will do them in in a heartbeat. Why he's so gutless he refuses to show us his validated birth certificate, his school records and passport history. Why is that? Why are liberals so scared they won't demand that? Afraid he has something to hide?

Can you imagine the world without corporate sponsored neocon idiots trying to hold back progress so they can make some money. I say cut them loose. After the rope stops swinging. I heard they get farm subsidies ther too. More savings. They dont believe in the pledge, therefore they are not the patriots they claimed to be. They want our duly elected president to fail. They dont believe in democracy. Election are great only if they win. Send them to Saudi land with the rest of the terrorists. They just might learn something valuable.

Let the South go (TN., TX. etc.)and let's see how well their economies do. After a year they'll be screaming to rejoin the Union. The stupidity of these types is staggering. And, those that fall in lock-step with them is scary. So much for the American education system. When will TN. begin rewriting their history books as TX. wants to? Also, I love these anti-government types who are the government, and getting paid by tax payers.

Democracy, thy name ain't "Republican." You lost the election in 2008! Accept it. And if the American people continue to vote against your radical right wing fascism (and you do meet the classic definition of fascism), become patriotic Americans and accept the will of the voters.

Back in 1961 MccKinley Kantor wrote a fascinating book entitled "If the South Had Won the Civil War." This 128-page fantasy ended with the north and south reuniting to fight World War I -- they had no choice if they wanted to survive.

Fantasy aside, these radical politicians who so readily say the Pledge of Allegence nearly every day seem to forget they are pledging to preserve "one nation, indivisible... with liberty and justice for all" -- a pledge that talk of secession violates. Then again, they've rarely supported liberty and justice for all -- so why am I surprised they would violate their daily pledge?

It's interesting that these guys like to call themselves the "party of Lincoln", because if President Lincoln were in office today, he would have Congressman Wamp and Governor Perry swinging from the gallows.

fluF_puf: Even if you haven't bought a physical copy of the Post in years, you're obviously still reading it, which makes you an idiot. If you have such a low opinion of the news coverage here, you should be ignoring it altogether, but no, you need to puff yourself up by continuing to read and comment on stories here.

This article wasn't about ALL people who want to secede or consider themselves independent of the US, it's about Wamp and maybe Perry and those Republicans who ally themselves with them. I know nothing about the Vermont group or this supposed New Black Panthers movement, which are so marginal (if existing at all) as to be unworthy of much mention. Native Americans have long wished to consider themselves their own nation, and I don't blame them a bit. They have been treated shamefully by the American government from the get-go. If they were to secede, it would be mostly awkward -- they're scattered all over the country in small enclaves, they have no central organization, most of them are poor (unless they have a couple of casinos) with no real ability to effective self-govern, raise money, manage infrastructure, or anything that would enable them to thrive outside the US.

Frankly, I wouldn't be unhappy if the southern tier of the US would secede and create its own conservative world, and those of us who are more progressive could choose to live in the company of like-minded folks in the north.

I agree with those who say - go forth, Mr. Wamp, and start the nation of Tennessee. Take your whole state with you, if they want to go. But, how do you know they want to go? How is it that you speak for the whole state without benefit of a referendum?

But wait! You're not absolute about this secession thing, and you've "vowed to pressure Democrats via other means..."

That's big of you, Rep. Wamp. So, if threats don't work, then there'll be the requisite GOP tactics of smearing and maligning, obstructionism and swiftboating, followed by breath holding, kicking and screaming? Oh, and go on record to make special pronouncements like this one.

Hey, here's a thought. Get a facebook page and post all your grandiose thoughts
there for your friends to read. Then, get on Twitter so that you can broadcast to the world every silly thought that enters your little numb skull. Heck, it worked for Palin!

Here's a little advice, Congressman Wamp. If you decide to secede, DO NOT invade Pennsylvania. I don't believe it worked out too well the last time... Just ask General Lee, or Longstreet, or Armistead, or Heth, or Hood, or Pickett.

The secessionists may well have been able to keep their Confederacy if they had stayed away from Gettysburg. It was a huge strategic and tactical blunder by one of the most brilliant military minds in history.

They wrecked the economy, the education system, the infrastructure, trains, buses, our environment and our credibility. Let them follow the millions of jobs they exported since January 20, 1981.

As far as I am concerned all the conservatives, neo-cons and right-wingers can leave any time they want. Let them go to the nice conservative nightmare of their choice - Iraq, Indonesia, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Russia, China...

This man is a traitor and should be dismissed as such. For the post to extend conversation with a man who deems secession as a possibility is not contributing to Free Speech it is devolving into "acceptance" that being a traitor to the USA is okay. Free speech is a right. The public spread of that traitorous message is not the responsibility of media.

This man is a traitor and should be dismissed as such. For the post to extend conversation with a man who deems secession as a possibility is not contributing to Free Speech it is devolving into "acceptance" that being a traitor to the USA is okay. Free speech is a right. The public spread of that traitorous message is not the responsibility of media.

This man is a traitor and should be dismissed as such. For the post to extend conversation with a man who deems secession as a possibility is not contributing to Free Speech it is devolving into "acceptance" that being a traitor to the USA is okay. Free speech is a right. The public spread of that traitorous message is not the responsibility of media.

Funny how there's no mention of the Republic of New Afrika (NBPP & Black Lib. Army), Second Vermont Republic, or any of the Native American movements.

Get real people. As I've stated so many times before, the Post is trash, worthy of training puppies, but not particularly of reading. This is a dumb article, riddled with bias, bad spelling, and just plain non-news.

We in the Union smashed those racist traitors in 1865; too bad we didn't subject their whole rotten region to 100 years of reconstruction (including, at the outset, hanging all their political and military leaders as examples).

If traitors like Wamp and Perry try to revive that nonsense. let 'em have it again--and this time, crush the South right.

Maybe the southern states should- finally- be allowed to secede from the Union. It would be interesting to see whether or not they could survive without the tax revenues they keep bleeding from the Northern states based on apportionments set up 40 years ago when they were poor as a region.

Need tax revenues to pay for rescue work after being hit by a hurricane? Raise them yourselves. Need help after getting burned by lax regulation of the oil industries? Fix it yourself. I'm tired of people in these states whining about the costs of the Federal government, when they won't do anything for themselves at the state level to manage their own problems. Let them secede; the rest of the country will be better off without them. And businesses will come running northward after a while, just like a lot of businesses have gone to Canada because they have good government and consistent regulations even though their taxes are higher.

Hey, editor, is someone going to fire this hack Emi Kolawole for such a sloppy piece? The author ties this piece off with the expected, lazy, cloak of neutrality: "Democrats spoke of secession following George W. Bush's election in 2004." As evidence, the author links to piece from--believe it or not--the moonie paper! The linked piece cites as evidence a quote by a self-identified democrat who has never held elective office, and a joke email circulating on the internet. Seriously, if there is a shred of journalistic integrity left over there at the House that Graham Built, you'll stop letting summer interns write blog posts.

Wamp is an idiot. He is running a poor third in the governors race, and is just trying to make some noise. It's what he does best, because thinking is not his strong suit.
We here in Tennessee know what a moron sounds like, Zach Wamp.

i see no problem with it- LET THEM ALL LEAVE!!!!!!! go start the republic of tea, go start it somewhere else and leave us alone to heal and recover from your hard work tearing up this country! LEAVE WHY DON'T YOU!!! we can have a partition like India did...you can take the south; we'll move east. you can go take a dip every day in those fabulous gulf waters. you can kill all the animals, kick out all the mexicans and blacks and natives...oops! there are not many native americans down there, 'cause you killed them all! then you can all sit back in church on you pews and feel so goooooood about yourselves, cause you are all so hard-working and deserving of every red cent you've stiffed from the American people. but please don't forget to take wall street with you. we up here will farm, start co-ops, share, and live in peace.

Dear Mr Wamp:
Please take some of your fellow pasty, angry, bitter, resentful, poorly educated, toothless, Rebel flag-waving, mullet-wearing, NASCAR-luvin' illiterate rednecks with you on your way out of the USA. We're tired of our tax dollars supporting your grubby red states that feed at the federal trough and complain about the fedrul guvmint. Yee hah!

Obvious false equivalencies about secession. Note that the Post didn't show quotes from a Democratic politician advocating secession, it simply quotes a "top Democrat," whatever that means; and the Post further cited some silly secession map circulating on the internet. Can the Post be a little less biased towards giving cover to the right-wingers by making "the other side does it too" false arguments.

It seems to me that Wamp CANNOT be a United States congressman. As a secessionist he is not willing to uphold and defend the U.S. constitution. He is already violating that oath by talking about taking the country apart with secession.

Secession is one of the most righteous words in American politics. God Bless Secession. States should add secession trigger clauses (SecTriCla) to legislation. For example, a state declares it doesn't recognize anchor babies. It adds a SecTriCla stating that if the federal courts overturn that, secession is triggered automatically.

What is it with these Republicans? TX threatens to secede if they don't get their way; TN apparently is too; Angle threatens '2nd amendment solutions' if she loses the election. And NO REPUBLICAN rebukes them for it!

What kind of democracy do they believe in, any way? More than that, what country do they want to live in?