Just finished watching... not a forex expert but was surprised by some of the basic information about how the forex market works... anyone else catch some of that?

Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:51 pm

ad1940

Experienced User

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:57 pmPosts: 12

Re: Forex Trading Details

let me elaborate:

- "banks work collectively to move the Forex market" -- what nonsense, the Forex market is a zero sum game, every winner has a loser, banks are competing with each other every second... I'm not defending the global banks and all the other stuff they are guilty of, but it's just silly to suggest that they are using the Forex market in this way.

- "you can't lose more than what's deposited in your account" -- again, is just total nonsense... I mean what else are you supposed to lose! and how is this and different than getting a margin call on your stock/equity account.

I think RV is for real and RV in financial markets is possible, but when you play this fast-and-loose with basic facts it doesn't reflect well on the overall quality of the training.

1. Don't see what the problem is with this statement. Banks trade currencies on the FOREX which causes big swings on the pair. This is accurate - maybe you're reading too much between the lines to imply that banks manipulate the markets for profit (not that this is so hard to believe either).

2. If you get a margin call you haven't lost MORE than what's in your brokerage account but you might with Futures under some scenarios (if you have to take delivery on a physical asset, etc).

1. Don't see what the problem is with this statement. Banks trade currencies on the FOREX which causes big swings on the pair. This is accurate - maybe you're reading too much between the lines to imply that banks manipulate the markets for profit (not that this is so hard to believe either).

not really... if you listen he says that "the banks" move the market back and forth to make 300-500% on your money and that the forex market is some kind of money machine for the banks... this is just nonsense... again, I'm convinced that the global banking elite are playing a lot of games and doing all sorts of self-serving stuff, but there is no way that any group can move a market like this in this way... same for the stock market in general... there can be little scams for short periods of time, but that's all.

Quote:

2. If you get a margin call you haven't lost MORE than what's in your brokerage account but you might with Futures under some scenarios (if you have to take delivery on a physical asset, etc).

again, not what he says... he said the Forex has special rules that give the individual investors an advantage... total nonsense... if your account can't handle the margin call you go bust.

OK I just watched it again. This topic of broker/bank manipulation is debated across every FOREX discussion forum ad infinitum. I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water though. The RVFM method works regardless.

If you're a professional FOREX trader perhaps you can share your perspective.

OK I just watched it again. This topic of broker/bank manipulation is debated across every FOREX discussion forum ad infinitum. I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water though. The RVFM method works regardless.

If you're a professional FOREX trader perhaps you can share your perspective.

Can't just let this go... you're certainly right about broker manipulation (particularly market-makers) being a hot topic, but this is a totally separate issue. It's an example of small players trying to scam small investors... nothing big about it.

No serious Forex trader believes all the banks are working together to move the market... it's just silly... when Citibank takes a long position someone else (i.e. another large bank) is taking the short position... one wins, one loses... it's an investment/gamble... that's why some banks, even large ones, go bust.

As far as babies and bath water... it just makes you wonder about all the details of the protocol... it's a credibility thing. I'm convinced RV works, just trying to sort through what's really real.

Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:52 pm

blankeye

Advanced User

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:14 pmPosts: 82

Re: Forex Trading Details

ad1940, I also struggled with that statement from the RVFM course about thethe banks all moving in the same direction. How could they? It's not like they are talking to each other, they are competing...and.... there wouldn't be enough money on the other side of the bet if they all went the same way.

But I let it go... it's such an excellent course otherwise.

I had some very good results as beginner for about 2 months, then my HARV accuracy degraded and I stopped, haven't been back to try it again yet.

Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:54 pm

ad1940

Experienced User

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:57 pmPosts: 12

Re: Forex Trading Details

blankeye wrote:

ad1940, I also struggled with that statement from the RVFM course about thethe banks all moving in the same direction. How could they? It's not like they are talking to each other, they are competing...and.... there wouldn't be enough money on the other side of the bet if they all went the same way.

But I let it go... it's such an excellent course otherwise.

I had some very good results as beginner for about 2 months, then my HARV accuracy degraded and I stopped, haven't been back to try it again yet.

I'm in a slightly different situation... I started a RV project with several others... had some good results then picked up the training to see if our system could be improved. So, I have no doubts about RV, but the obvious misstatements in this presentation make me question the rest... then again, I may have picked up a couple of good ideas... will see.

@ad1940 your thinking in micro economics of the US doing FOREX. Look at the big picture of the WHOLE WORLD. ie the central banks in every market, the world bank, ect. FOREX deals the exchange rates that MOSTLY occur between markets. Asian Market vs European Market. You do trade individual currencies as they are regulated by the world market, not BofA trading with citibank. Although they are obviously involded on a smaller scale.

@ad1940 your thinking in micro economics of the US doing FOREX. Look at the big picture of the WHOLE WORLD. ie the central banks in every market, the world bank, ect. FOREX deals the exchange rates that MOSTLY occur between markets. Asian Market vs European Market. You do trade individual currencies as they are regulated by the world market, not BofA trading with citibank. Although they are obviously involded on a smaller scale.

3. there are special rules that allow you to only lose how much is in your account (how is this special?)

This stuff is laughable... and it detracts from the credibility of the course.

Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:41 pm

Schneller

Ultimate User

Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:25 pmPosts: 168Location: London, UK

Re: Forex Trading Details

ad1940, I don't really understand why you keep on about this. As you have the course why are these three points so important for you. (notice, no question mark). Just do the sessions.

As it happens, all three points can easily be answered and are correct. However, why would anyone want to give their time to you when you have such a negative attitude and are obviously clueless about Forex, plus the market manipulation involving governments, central banks, and the major banks.

ad1940, I don't really understand why you keep on about this. As you have the course why are these three points so important for you. (notice, no question mark). Just do the sessions.

As it happens, all three points can easily be answered and are correct. However, why would anyone want to give their time to you when you have such a negative attitude and are obviously clueless about Forex, plus the market manipulation involving governments, central banks, and the major banks.

because I'm involved in a RV investment project... I've hired several psychics and remote viewers... we've had good results... I investigated the course to see if we could improve... and to better understand the RV community.

Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:55 pm

edb

New User

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:53 amPosts: 1

Re: Forex Trading Details

ad1940 wrote:

- "you can't lose more than what's deposited in your account" -- again, is just total nonsense... I mean what else are you supposed to lose! and how is this and different than getting a margin call on your stock/equity account.

ad1940 wrote:

3. there are special rules that allow you to only lose how much is in your account (how is this special?)

Hi ad1940,

In a stock/equity leveraged trades (trades made on margin) it's possible to lose 2 to 50 times the amount you have on deposit. Usually your firm will act to close your trade before that happens, but quickly moving or gapping markets can prevent this from happening... a recent example is the "flash crash." Usual margined accounts only allow you to risk 2 times your deposit (your account balance). Professional margined accounts can allow you to risk 10 to 50 times your deposit. (The professional accounts and firms have to be licensed and approved.)

Futures are leveraged trades also, so it's possible to lose more than your account, also.

I have experience with professional stock/equity and futures trading, and always read and signed the "you could lose more than your account balance" disclosure with much trepidation. And I met and saw traders being wiped out and financially buried... they lost several times more than the amount in their account.

I'm not familiar with Forex, so can't speak for the amount at risk in small private accounts.

If it's true that only your account balance, and no more, is at risk in Forex... I'm going to have to start trading Forex!... and forget about stock/equity and futures trades where I could lose 50 to 100 times my account balance...

Sorry that I couldn't help with your Forex question.

I hope the stock/equity and futures margin info is helpful... for more info please contact the stock/equity and futures exchanges.

_________________“We do not rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.”― ArchilochosNow―at this instant―show me what I need to know and do to achieve the best outcome for all involved.

Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:27 pm

Schneller

Ultimate User

Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:25 pmPosts: 168Location: London, UK

Re: Forex Trading Details

edb wrote:

If it's true that only your account balance, and no more, is at risk in Forex... I'm going to have to start trading Forex!... and forget about stock/equity and futures trades where I could lose 50 to 100 times my account balance...

It's true because the trades are monitored in real-time and automatically closed when you run out of money on the account.

Forex is just like gambling on red or black in a game of roulette, with the financial risk of an option. The spreads are very tight.

In a stock/equity leveraged trades (trades made on margin) it's possible to lose 2 to 50 times the amount you have on deposit. Usually your firm will act to close your trade before that happens, but quickly moving or gapping markets can prevent this from happening... a recent example is the "flash crash." Usual margined accounts only allow you to risk 2 times your deposit (your account balance). Professional margined accounts can allow you to risk 10 to 50 times your deposit. (The professional accounts and firms have to be licensed and approved.)

Futures are leveraged trades also, so it's possible to lose more than your account, also.

I have experience with professional stock/equity and futures trading, and always read and signed the "you could lose more than your account balance" disclosure with much trepidation. And I met and saw traders being wiped out and financially buried... they lost several times more than the amount in their account.

I'm not familiar with Forex, so can't speak for the amount at risk in small private accounts.

If it's true that only your account balance, and no more, is at risk in Forex... I'm going to have to start trading Forex!... and forget about stock/equity and futures trades where I could lose 50 to 100 times my account balance...

Sorry that I couldn't help with your Forex question.

I hope the stock/equity and futures margin info is helpful... for more info please contact the stock/equity and futures exchanges.[/quote]

thx... but I think you would have to see the actual video presentation to get a sense for the meaning (i.e. misinformation) being conveyed. Proviewer suggests that the Forex market has "special bank rules" that give us some great advantage. This allows us to control large positions with limited risk (i.e. only our account balance). To anyone who has ever traded Forex this is complete nonsense... when the market moves against your leveraged position, your position is closed... the more leverage you lose in taking your initial position the tighter the spread gets... i.e. you get closed out sooner... it's presented as some kind of secret advantage... it is not.

From forex.com:

Quote:

Margin Requirements The minimum margin requirement is 2% (or 50:1) on the majors and 5% of (20:1) for the minor currency pairs. View the full list of margin requirements by currency pair.

Open positions are required to be fully margined at all times. There are no margin calls in forex trading. If a customer’s account balance falls below required 100% maintenance margin, all open positions are subject to automatic liquidation. Liquidations are handled in the following manner: the net open position with the greatest unrealized loss is closed first, followed by the next largest losing position and so on, until the maintenance margin requirement is satisfied or exceeded. Depending on the size and unrealized P&L of the open positions, customers risk having ALL open positions liquidated in order to meet the minimum margin requirement and incurring losses greater than the initial required margin.

Traders always have the option of employing a lower degree of leverage. You may request a leverage change at any time by logging into your account and going to the MyAccount section of the website. Increasing leverage increases risk.

Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:36 pm

ad1940

Experienced User

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:57 pmPosts: 12

Re: Forex Trading Details

Schneller wrote:

It's true because the trades are monitored in real-time and automatically closed when you run out of money on the account.

not really correct... your position is closed when you run out of MARGIN in your account... if you have $50,000 in your account and you buy 20 lots you will have used $40,000 of your margin (assuming 50 to 1 leverage). Your position will be closed out when the market moves against you by 40 pips... when your positions are closed you will have lost $8,000 and will have $42,000 left in your account.

Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:50 pm

Schneller

Ultimate User

Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:25 pmPosts: 168Location: London, UK

Re: Forex Trading Details

ad1940 wrote:

Schneller wrote:

It's true because the trades are monitored in real-time and automatically closed when you run out of money on the account.

not really correct... your position is closed when you run out of MARGIN in your account... if you have $50,000 in your account and you buy 20 lots you will have used $40,000 of your margin (assuming 50 to 1 leverage). Your position will be closed out when the market moves against you by 40 pips... when your positions are closed you will have lost $8,000 and will have $42,000 left in your account.

What does this have to do with not losing more than you have deposited on your trading account.

You have obviously done no trading or are new to it and are still running around in the fog. You come across as a 16 year old that thinks they know it all. I guess you have never seen 100 point moves taking place in a fraction of a second with spreads widening to 30 points.

It's true because the trades are monitored in real-time and automatically closed when you run out of money on the account.

not really correct... your position is closed when you run out of MARGIN in your account... if you have $50,000 in your account and you buy 20 lots you will have used $40,000 of your margin (assuming 50 to 1 leverage). Your position will be closed out when the market moves against you by 40 pips... when your positions are closed you will have lost $8,000 and will have $42,000 left in your account.

What does this have to do with not losing more than you have deposited on your trading account.

You have obviously done no trading or are new to it and are still running around in the fog. You come across as a 16 year old that thinks they know it all. I guess you have never seen 100 point moves taking place in a fraction of a second with spreads widening to 30 points.

again, you're trying to make it personal, and about me, it's not. Your statement was incorrect, that's all. you said that your position is closed when you run out of money in your account, but your position is closed when you run of MARGIN... there's a big difference as the above example demonstrates.... also, when the spread widens to 30 pips (you said points, but I think you meant pips) it just increases the chance that you will be closed out of your position before you want to.

Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:12 pm

Schneller

Ultimate User

Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:25 pmPosts: 168Location: London, UK

Re: Forex Trading Details

ad1940 wrote:

Your statement was incorrect

What I wrote is not incorrect. Currency trading is what I do for a living. I know more about it than you ever will.

ad1940 wrote:

you said points, but I think you meant pips

All the proof I need to see that you are an amateur simply copying and pasting from websites and have no actual experience.

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