Amazinz wrote:Going back to your original point, I do not agree with the notion that as a Christian I am (or should be) inherently opposed to gay rights. I don't think that's true and I think that when there is a fine line between gay rights and human rights than it is probably my duty as a Christian to be pro gay rights. Just my $.02.

You have to understand that giving someone certain rights isnt the real issue though - the issue is legitamizing a sinful act. If we were talking about liars or thieves, would you still feel it would be okay to say those acts are not only acceptable but protected and encouraged as well?

Amazinz wrote:Beat, I think that argument loses traction when you up the ante (i.e. abortion). I don't see it as arrogance but rather my responsibility to vote based on my belief system.

That's a whole different issue than homosexuality though because it's a choice that's forced onto another (in this case, the unborn baby). Similarly, I couldn't defend rape by saying it was my lifestyle choice and I found it an acceptable practice. In a case like homosexuality though, I agree with beat.

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:You have to understand that giving someone certain rights isnt the real issue though - the issue is legitamizing a sinful act. If we were talking about liars or thieves, would you still feel it would be okay to say those acts are not only acceptable but protected and encouraged as well?

I don't see it as legitimizing a sinful act. Homosexuality is perfectly legal in the U.S. The Bible tells us that except in very specific instances we are to obey the laws of man. So homosexuals need to have the same rights that any law-abiding citizen does. Bottom line for me is that Jesus' message is one of love. I am far more concerned with the difficulty of living up to that message than I am about legitimizing sin.

Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey

Amazinz wrote:Going back to your original point, I do not agree with the notion that as a Christian I am (or should be) inherently opposed to gay rights. I don't think that's true and I think that when there is a fine line between gay rights and human rights than it is probably my duty as a Christian to be pro gay rights. Just my $.02.

You have to understand that giving someone certain rights isnt the real issue though - the issue is legitamizing a sinful act. If we were talking about liars or thieves, would you still feel it would be okay to say those acts are not only acceptable but protected and encouraged as well?

In essence, I consider there to be two types of laws- God's laws and man's laws. At the heart of most of man's laws is protecting other people and their property from harm or seizure. Anything that falls in that category, like thieves, should be protected against. Anything that doesn't fall into that category but is against God's laws, shouldn't be put into legislation. Violating those laws has its own penal system and secular punishments don't need to be added on top of that.

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:You have to understand that giving someone certain rights isnt the real issue though - the issue is legitamizing a sinful act. If we were talking about liars or thieves, would you still feel it would be okay to say those acts are not only acceptable but protected and encouraged as well?

I don't see it as legitimizing a sinful act. Homosexuality is perfectly legal in the U.S. The Bible tells us that except in very specific instances we are to obey the laws of man. So homosexuals need to have the same rights and benefits that any law-abiding citizen does. Bottom line for me is that Jesus' message is one of love. I am far more concerned with the difficulty of living up to that message than I am about legitimizing sin.

Good thing to strive for there...the more positivity/caring/love we spread the better IMO. Personally, I find it hard to believe that God would put me on this earth to choose the "right" religion...and if I choose the "wrong" one I go to hell or some other crappy place. Jewish, Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Hindi, etc...I've met some amazing people from each of these religions...kind people...faithful people...good people. I believe in a God and if you asked me my religion, I would say Christian...even though I would fail in many respects according to Cornbread's definition...and it doesn't bother me at all that he says I'm not one...it may bother him that I say I AM one, but...to me it's just another lable.

Anyway, I'm more focussed on living a life that I can be proud of...based on basic Christian principles and my own abnormally high standards for myself. I live the way I do because it makes me feel good...it makes me feel like I'm contributing in some positive way to this world. I enjoy being kind to people...I love doing nice things for both people I care about and those I don't know. I give compliments to people a lot...and encourage them to follow their dreams and set goals for themselves. I love seeing people I know succeed and congratulate them when they do so. But I'm not judgmental...that's inherently divisive. If you really want to help someone, you shouldn't tell them how they're f'ing up (unless it's a friend/family member and it's simply gotten to that point due to lack of options)...you should be kind to them and lead by example. That's my opinion anyway.

Sorry if I went a bit off topic...I just started blathering.

Regarding homosexuality...since I see it as something that one is born with, I feel that it's something God intended some people to be. And while the Old Testament God can be pretty harsh, I have a hard time believing that God would let people be born homosexuals and want them to fight against their nature their entire lives just to prove their faithfulness to Him...seems cruel...I'll pass on Heaven if that's really how He works. I understand the simplistic nature of my logic...but to me it really is that simple.

Some of what I wrote makes me sound like a hippie love child...really I'm just a normal guy who thinks being nice to people leads to good things for everyone.

The act of homosexuality and premarital sex are both considered sins, yet one is taboo and constantly debated while the other seems to be the norm. It's a bit hypocritical if your going to slander someone's choice to be gay then go and have premarital sex. Homosexuality should in no way be illegal whether you personally consider it a immoral or not. Only sins that affect other peoples rights should be illegal, like theft, murder, etc. obviously. Otherwise, people have the right to live their lives whichever way they choose.