England has gems like Buttler & Bairstow as wicketkeepers whereas we are stuck with 40 year old Dhoni

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[mention=486]putrevus[/mention] Pandya may not be "as good as" Buttler. But he has definitely gotten fewer opportunities than Ben Stokes with the bat in ODIs. He may not be able to succeed in playing longer innings. But then again, he just might. It was in the team's best interests to give him ample chances and find out just what the limits are on his batting potential. We haven't done that, when we easily could have.

Team management didn’t ask him to miss Odi series by going on TV show. Butter performed so well that it forced their TM to use him as an opener in t20s and now trying to find him a position where he can make more impact.

I always believe it is up-to players to force TM to give them more chances. Bumrah was so good in t20s and Odis that he forced team to make him a test bowler.

I have not seen anything like it from Pandya . He was given ample chances.

He is not even in same ball park in ability as Butler. To think he is foolishness.

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how many batsmen have 100s at #7 in ODIs? when has butler scored 150 at an SR of 200? Pandya recently scored 91 of 34 balls in IPL over 200 SR. Butler and pandya's SR are not even close in IPL. Pandya averaged 44 with an SR of 191, Butler 38 with an SR of 151.

Yosuf Pathan scored IPL 100 in 34 balls. Does it matter. It is Pandya’s fault that he has not given TM both at IPL and India a reason to bat him higher.

If you think Pandya is on par as a batsman as Butler then India has nothing to worry about it’s middle order.

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Team management didn’t ask him to miss Odi series by going on TV show. Butter performed so well that it forced their TM to use him as an opener in t20s and now trying to find him a position where he can make more impact.

I always believe it is up-to players to force TM to give them more chances. Bumrah was so good in t20s and Odis that he forced team to make him a test bowler.

I have not seen anything like it from Pandya . He was given ample chances.

He is not even in same ball park in ability as Butler. To think he is foolishness.

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compare their IPL stats this season and it will tell your whether he is close to Butler or not. While Butler made use of PP.

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Yosuf Pathan scored IPL 100 in 34 balls. Does it matter. It is Pandya’s fault that he has not given TM both at IPL and India a reason to bat him higher.

If you think Pandya is on par as a batsman as Butler then India has nothing to worry about it’s middle order.

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Pandya has a role in his IPL team which he has played to perfection. he is the biggest reason MI won this IPL. Regarding Indian team, he did bat in top order and became MOS against Aus with two match winning knocks in those innings, now blame TM to not persist with him for a longer period. The biggest reason is we didnt have anyone lower down the order so he had to bat in the lower order.

Regarding bolder part, Pandya bats at 7, which is not an ideal batting position to make any impact expect a few 10-20 ball cameos. batting #7, he is not going make much of a difference in this team as most times top 3 plays most of the overs. Also England also has like of Morgan and Stokes in the middle order. They are not dependent on just one player. No team depending on just one player can win big tournys.

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compare their IPL stats this season and it will tell your whether he is close to Butler or not. While Butler made use of PP.

When Pandya scores 100s in Odis we will compare their IPL SRs.Russel has higher SR than Pandya does it make him better than Butler? Swinging for fences for 10 or 15 balls is different from scoring an Odi 100 .

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I don't think Shankar is a natural big hitter. Only after Nidahas trophy he started practicing big hits. streetwise can go either way. He can score a 50 or so playing these little dinky shots or perish in the first over he faces. Jadhav's only biggest plus his side spin has the ability to nick out a few wickets. Jadhav's role should be compared with Yuvraj's role in 2011 world cup. Part time spin, batting at 7. In terms of hitting, being a match winner Jadhav is not that good. Even in terms of part time spin he is not that good. Also with fielding Yuvraj was always a better fielder before age caught him on. Basically poor man's Yuvraj. It is hard to pick between the two. I gotta go with Jadhav due to his experience.

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Pandya has a role in his IPL team which he has played to perfection. he is the biggest reason MI won this IPL. Regarding Indian team, he did bat in top order and became MOS against Aus with two match winning knocks in those innings, now blame TM to not persist with him for a longer period. The biggest reason is we didnt have anyone lower down the order so he had to bat in the lower order.

Regarding bolder part, Pandya bats at 7, which is not an ideal batting position to make any impact expect a few 10-20 ball cameos. batting #7, he is not going make much of a difference in this team as most times top 3 plays most of the overs. Also England also has like of Morgan and Stokes in the middle order. They are not dependent on just one player. No team depending on just one player can win big tournys.

Pandya looks like a legend for us because there is none even close to him in India at the moment.

Put him among the England allrounders Stokes,Woakes,Archer, Curran bros,M Ali etc he doesn’t look that special anymore.

We would take someone like Stokes with both hands he would solve both our no.4 problem and bowl a few overs.

Woakes is a way better bowler than Pandya and can bat as good.

Same goes for Archer.

Maybe in T20 you have a point there Pandya might get a nod ahead of others.

As far as butler goes he has 4-5 of the fastest odi 100s in the top 10. Are you serious saying Pandya is better?

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I don't think Shankar is a natural big hitter. Only after Nidahas trophy he started practicing big hits. streetwise can go either way. He can score a 50 or so playing these little dinky shots or perish in the first over he faces. Jadhav's only biggest plus his side spin has the ability to nick out a few wickets. Jadhav's role should be compared with Yuvraj's role in 2011 world cup. Part time spin, batting at 7. In terms of hitting, being a match winner Jadhav is not that good. Even in terms of part time spin he is not that good. Also with fielding Yuvraj was always a better fielder before age caught him on. Basically poor man's Yuvraj. It is hard to pick between the two. I gotta go with Jadhav due to his experience.

Shankar can bat till 100 s/r for most part of innings and can hit a few in the end to take his s/r above....pretty much what kohli does (not comparing two before some idiot jumps to that conclusion). We are just in t20 hangover as in t20 if u get 10-12 runs in an over during later stages its considered ok but in ODI thats damn good and shankar can do that

Jadhav role cant be compare to yuvi- as yuvi played as 5th bowler not part time bowler.....his role is more close to what raina did. 5th bowler bowls a lot of overs. Jadhav abilities are not even 10% of what yuvi had with bat

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I always believe it is up-to players to force TM to give them more chances.

Sorry for being blunt - but this statement is like being foolish and announcing that you are proud of it. who forced TM to give Rohit Sharma chance to open in ODIs? Did the team benefit from that?

How exactly did Kedar Jadhav "force TM" to give him opportunity to bowl in ODI cricket? Did the team benefit from that?

Not all players are like Sachin or Bumrah. Its in the interest of the team to maximize the production they get from players. That's their goddamn job. To sit back and claim that its up to the player to "force TM" is total bakwaas.

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Sorry for being blunt - but this statement is like being foolish and announcing that you are proud of it. who forced TM to give Rohit Sharma chance to open in ODIs? Did the team benefit from that?

How exactly did Kedar Jadhav "force TM" to give him opportunity to bowl in ODI cricket? Did the team benefit from that?

Not all players are like Sachin or Bumrah. Its in the interest of the team to maximize the production they get from players. That's their goddamn job. To sit back and claim that its up to the player to "force TM" is total bakwaas.

I don’t deny Pandya’s spot in LOIs. Best what is available but he is more like a patchwork than an actual missing piece of the puzzle

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When Pandya scores 100s in Odis we will compare their IPL SRs.Russel has higher SR than Pandya does it make him better than Butler? Swinging for fences for 10 or 15 balls is different from scoring an Odi 100 .

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100 at number 7 is rare to come, for that to happen we a top order collapse + a tail that can stick around him has to happen also .

We shud not hope for his 100 as that wud mean top order collapses . Our lower order cant stick for long .....3 guys who can stick around- bhuvi, ishant, ashwin will not make in XI as bowlers only

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Yuvi and Rohit were identified as future batsmen and backed. If they do the same with say someone like Shaw or Aggarwal etc it would make sense.

If TM can give pandya a chance in test cricket surely need to back him up the order.....he surely has been backed but they cud have made him bat higher in many occasions. Something that chappell n dravid did very well with dhoni

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

If say dhoni was in his prime hitting form and Jadeja who is a good bowler was even 20% a better bat would we need Pandya?

yes....coz jadeja doesnt have much hitting ability in 1st place....20% superior in batting means lil less then krunal pandya but hardik is miles ahead as batsman then krunal

Even if dhoni was at his hitting prime so whats bad in having one more hitter. Dhoni hitting prime was gone in the 2nd series he became captain ind vs pak 2007, after that he was more of grafter. In 2011...we had yuvi, dhoni ...yet we played pathan/raina . We have pandya ...does that we mean we cant play pant...ofcourse we can as it gives us more firepower

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If TM can give pandya a chance in test cricket surely need to back him up the order.....he surely has been backed but they cud have made him bat higher in many occasions. Something that chappell n dravid did very well with dhoni

yes....coz jadeja doesnt have much hitting ability in 1st place....20% superior in batting means lil less then krunal pandya but hardik is miles ahead as batsman then krunal

Even if dhoni was at his hitting prime so whats bad in having one more hitter. Dhoni hitting prime was gone in the 2nd series he became captain ind vs pak 2007, after that he was more of grafter. In 2011...we had yuvi, dhoni ...yet we played pathan/raina . We have pandya ...does that we mean we cant play pant...ofcourse we can as it gives us more firepower

And clearly the Yusuf Pathan experiment failed. In the end what we needed was a good specialist batsman to bail us out like Raina

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And clearly the Yusuf Pathan experiment failed. In the end what we needed was a good specialist batsman to bail us out like Raina

yusuf pathan experiment failed also coz we didnt hve many games in Wc to back him and its not the place to back someone

He did have 100 in SA which is no mean feat and a 50 that help us won the game, he had a 100 against NZ to. Its not that he was complete failure.........his failure was completely on him. Raina quality was also power hitting from ball-1 or else rohit cud have featured in that squad if batsmanship was the case....as he was a better batsman but the diff between him n raina was that raina cud hit from ball 1

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I don’t deny Pandya’s spot in LOIs. Best what is available but he is more like a patchwork than an actual missing piece of the puzzle

It's all about relative value. Put him in a team that needs him to bowl 10 overs every ODI and he would struggle. But in our team, with 2 wicket taking wrist spinners, and a quality pace duo, coupled with a power hitting deficit in the batting, he fits the team like a goddamn keystone.

I'm not claiming he will be an automatic success batting higher. But if he had been tried and clicked, It would strengthen the team significantly.

If sandeep patil had the likes of Tendulkar and Dravid around him, he may well have been that generation's Veeru. But that weaker team couldn't afford to carry his inconsistency.

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I still think Shankar has good potential to complement Pandya. With his height and bike he can add a few yard of pace.

He gets a natural bounce like Holder: There are many international bowlers either bowl at his pace or less. Holder CDG Berhenoff

Even Dhoni can hit 130 clicks. The point is say Berhenoff and grandhomme can make the ball talk in swinging conditions. Holder too is a very fine seam bowler in helpful conditions and is a bit quicker as well.

Shankar has not shown any ability to swing or seam the ball. Fair enough he didn’t get these pitches but he doesn’t have a short ball,slower ball, knuckle ball, Yorker or anything in his armory. All he does is bowl one dimensional good length deliveries in the low 130s. He will get killed on these current English pitches.

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Even Dhoni can hit 130 clicks. The point is say Berhenoff and grandhomme can make the ball talk in swinging conditions. Holder too is a very fine seam bowler in helpful conditions and is a bit quicker as well.

Shankar has not shown any ability to swing or seam the ball. Fair enough he didn’t get these pitches but he doesn’t have a short ball,slower ball, knuckle ball, Yorker or anything in his armory. All he does is bowl one dimensional good length deliveries in the low 130s. He will get killed on these current English pitches.

He did bowl slow balls Yorkers and bouncer. One good thing is he is not.a spray gun like Umesh. He is fairly stump to stump.

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Sorry for being blunt - but this statement is like being foolish and announcing that you are proud of it. who forced TM to give Rohit Sharma chance to open in ODIs? Did the team benefit from that?

How exactly did Kedar Jadhav "force TM" to give him opportunity to bowl in ODI cricket? Did the team benefit from that?

Not all players are like Sachin or Bumrah. Its in the interest of the team to maximize the production they get from players. That's their goddamn job. To sit back and claim that its up to the player to "force TM" is total bakwaas.

Kedar is a sure starter when healthy for one reason, his ability to bowl few overs.Kedar has won few matches with bat and did well with ball too.

Pandya has remained a bits and pieces player and it is his fault .

Kohli debuted later than Raina but he was batting in top order where as Raina remained a lower order player.

Butter played in middle order but was made to open by team in IPL because of his ability.

Pandya is still a bits and pieces player whose batting or bowling is not that great. He is therefore a no7 .That is his optimal position. Any higher he will get exposed.

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Nobody is saying Pandya”s spot should be questioned. Pandya is the best we got but he is no way a World class player. He is more a patchwork for this team. He is needed because India doesn’t not have better middle order.

Hope the all the team needs a cameo here and there from him.

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100 at number 7 is rare to come, for that to happen we a top order collapse + a tail that can stick around him has to happen also . We shud not hope for his 100 as that wud mean top order collapses . Our lower order cant stick for long .....3 guys who can stick around- bhuvi, ishant, ashwin will not make in XI as bowlers only

It is his ability which is limiting him to no7 . As I said earlier not expecting anything other than cameos from him. I don’t think he has ability to score consistently even if he promoted up the order.

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It is his ability which is limiting him to no7 . As I said earlier not expecting anything other than cameos from him. I don’t think he has ability to score consistently even if he promoted up the order.

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Its his power hitting ability that makes him bat at 7 coz no one other then him can do that job.......

We cannot say that about anyone unless we try him. When rohit sharma was called maggi who thought he ll avg 50+ for 5 years thats consistency, when dhoni bursted on scene as power hitter no one thought his consistency was going to be so gr8

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Its his power hitting ability that makes him bat at 7 coz no one other then him can do that job....... We cannot say that about anyone unless we try him. When rohit sharma was called maggi who thought he ll avg 50+ for 5 years thats consistency, when dhoni bursted on scene as power hitter no one thought his consistency was going to be so gr8

What is your point.Do you think coaches and other players are morons they have no ability to judge players.They see them every day.

Dhoni was made captain in 2007 because seniors like Sachin and other coaches thought so highly of him even though guys like Sehwag, Gambhir were in the squad.

It is always upto players and players need to express their views too. Russell wanted to bat at no4 and he told everyone about it. This year KKR didn’t have brains to use him properly but Russell did everything he could do to make his point.

Pandya is no7/ no6 because they don’t think he is good enough for no4 or no5.

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What is your point.Do you think coaches and other players are morons they have no ability to judge players.They see them every day.

U think kohli has the ability to judge players ???? think again

Just now, putrevus said:

Dhoni was made captain in 2007 because seniors like Sachin and other coaches thought so highly of him even though guys like Sehwag, Gambhir were in the squad.

only after showing 2 yrs of consistency

Fact check

Gambhir wasnt established in squad, infact got fair chances when dhoni became captain

Sehwag lost his place that time ....he wasnt even in squad a tour before dhoni was made captain

Just now, putrevus said:

It is always upto players and players need to express their views too. Russell wanted to bat at no4 and he told everyone about it. This year KKR didn’t have brains to use him properly but Russell did everything he could do to make his point.

Pandya is no7/ no6 because they don’t think he is good enough for no4 or no5.

So they dnt think of him as good and yet they have backed him to hill and have made him play test cricket, have given him promotion as well in which he did well........problem is promotion has been less. Dravid n chappell used dhoni so well which shastri n kohli has failed

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Who gave Kedar the chance to bowl in international ODIs? What are his FC bowling stats? Did he "force TM" to give him that bowling opportunity?

Btw, nice try to somehow make Jos Buttler - an absolute freak of a player - as the benchmark for Pandya. Somehow if Pandya isn't as good as Buttler, he isn't good enough?

Why do you think he bowled??

There is no trying on my part. I know Pandya is at best bits and pieces player.He cannot be Butler in this lifetime.Don't make Pandya into something he is not, he works for India becuase there is noone there.I did not compare his IPL stats or SR with Butler.

You made my point India does not have great batting talent nor do they have anyone like 10% of Butler who is waiting in the wings but is not picked up.

It is you guys who are constantly whining about Indian top three and how they are somehow blocking so called great batting talents. There is nobody there who is better than them.

TM and captain cannot manufacture talents, this is worst talent depth I have seen Indian batting in a long time.

Gambhir wasnt established in squad, infact got fair chances when dhoni became captain

Sehwag lost his place that time ....he wasnt even in squad a tour before dhoni was made captain

So they dnt think of him as good and yet they have backed him to hill and have made him play test cricket, have given him promotion as well in which he did well........problem is promotion has been less. Dravid n chappell used dhoni so well which shastri n kohli has failed

What talent is there which is shining somewhere after Kohli neglected them ???

Players like Pandya have been given unnecessary long rope in test cricket by Kohli in search for so called allrounder and balance.It is totally Kohli's fault in misjudging talent of hack like Pandya and thinking he is going to be match winner in test cricket. India would won more if this hack was not selected in test cricket on those tours.

Don't confuse yourself, it was the talent of Dhoni which made Dravid or Chappell look good. Wasim Akram made Imran Khan look great because he was that talented. Before Wasim Akram there were guys like Tahir Naqqash and Jalauddin why didn't Imran make them great.

Karthik/Parthiv Patel made their debut before Dhoni were they not used properly? You need talent, coaches and captains cannot create talent.Sehwag was talented enough to make Ganguly look great when was made into an opener. Rahul made Kohli look like an idiot even though he kept on playing him test after test.

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What talent is there which is shining somewhere after Kohli neglected them ???

Rahul, shankar , gill, pant....

Do we have to go over this again n again

Fine u dnt agree they are talents, be ready to look like a fool in few yrs

Just now, putrevus said:

Players like Pandya have been given unnecessary long rope in test cricket by Kohli in search for so called allrounder and balance.It is totally Kohli's fault in misjudging talent of hack like Pandya and thinking he is going to be match winner in test cricket. India would won more if this hack was not selected in test cricket on those tours.

and he did India a test match didnt he

India wud won more without him is an assumption. India won only one test in england due to him is a reality

Just now, putrevus said:

Don't confuse yourself, it was the talent of Dhoni which made Dravid or Chappell look good. Wasim Akram made Imran Khan look great because he was that talented. Before Wasim Akram there were guys like Tahir Naqqash and Jalauddin why didn't Imran make them great.

no they were better with young talent unlike these 2 morons .

Just now, putrevus said:

Karthik/Parthiv Patel made their debut before Dhoni were they not used properly? You need talent, coaches and captains cannot create talent.Sehwag was talented enough to make Ganguly look great when was made into an opener. Rahul made Kohli look like an idiot even though he kept on playing him test after test.

But still pappu was backed like crazy from ganguly that got dhoni debut delayed

Sehwag also made ganguly look like idiot, dnt forget the abuse that guy use to get and yuvi to. Now u look at full careers not the build up stage of sehwag or yuvi.

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Because the team saw potential utility in his part-time offerings, and used him smartly.

Quote

TM and captain cannot manufacture talents, this is worst talent depth I have seen Indian batting in a long time.

Bullshit. The likes of KL Rahul, Mayank Agarwal, Rishabh Pant, Prithvi Shaw, Sanju Samson, Shubman Gill - are as talented as anyone on the circuit. In fact, India's bench options in batting are deep AF. Problem is, that the current team management refuses to groom and develop their potential. A young new player should be first given opportunities in situations and positions where he's likely to succeed, before simply throwing him into low-percentage situations and asking him to "prove" it. But Virat and his buddies are only too happy sitting in the cushy top order, asking the other batsmen to do the dirty hard work of coming in to bat, late in the innings, tasked with either scoring at a high rate from the word go, or rebuild from a 60/4 situation. In spite of this, a guy like Kedar Jadhav has put up stellar batting numbers. But he still isn't given a proper run at #4, because old declining fossils have to keep getting chances to resurrect their fading batting skills.

The team is mismanaging its player resources - the ones that are in the XI, the squad, and the player pool at large. To claim that there are no "Buttlers" in India, is facetious and false. Players like Jos are special, and rare. And just because a batsman isn't at that freak level, doesn't mean that they don't bring value to the team.

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Reminds of that self-styled professor dude, who kept calling Pandya a "hammock for bowlers". Right up until Hardik picked up a match-winning 5-fer in England. Hasn't been seen around here since.

Some guys are so hell-bent on proving themselves "right" over an argument on players, that they will stubbornly call black, white. Because its not possible to admit a mistake, such is the lack of maturity.

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Reminds of that self-styled professor dude, who kept calling Pandya a "hammock for bowlers". Right up until Hardik picked up a match-winning 5-fer in England. Hasn't been seen around here since.

Some guys are so hell-bent on proving themselves "right" over an argument on players, that they will stubbornly call black, white. Because its not possible to admit a mistake, such is the lack of maturity.

They do suffer from short memory as they forget most career have gone through same struggle, sighting their example but forgetting their struggle

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Yep thats why India is sending one of its weakest batting units to world cup .You saying talent is there does not make talent appear out of thin air.

hows it week ?

Ur saying talent is not there is living in denial .....

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

It is a joke people like you think Pandya is super talented and Rahul is next Bradman. They are not good.

I can name top cricketers who think pandya is super talented....and may i knw who said rahul is next bradman. Stop acting like a press reporter - making headlines out of nothing just becoz u have nothing to say

I can name top cricketers who think pandya is super talented....and may i knw who said rahul is next bradman. Stop acting like a press reporter - making headlines out of nothing just becoz u have nothing to say

This talent word is also very overrated, most of India thought rohit was better then kohli and we knw whos is where . If someone has talent ....what he does with it will be decided by his attitude but captain has to give full chances