After Living in Norway, America Feels Backward. Here’s Why.

I have seen the change. I have worked in my field thirty two years, and as of late, the attitude towards the working class in the US has become very
callous and mean spirited. You work your a** off for years for a company, are loyal, and they just throw you away like toilet paper as soon as they
can get someone cheaper to do your job. Its the Steve Jobs model, get a bunch of people to work hard for you, and then as soon as you get rich throw
them under the bus. It started to get bad back in the 80's and it just gets worse every year. There is NO loyalty, people work too many hours, the
pay is NOT keeping up with inflation, but the afluent class keeps getting richer and richer and it seems at the same time more meanspirited. And at
the same time ANY ideas that might make the life of that same working class more bearable are relentlessly attacked by the oligarchs. Where is this
going to end up? For all their arrogance, do these people enslaving us with low wages, debt, and no upward mobility read history? I have been to
Europe and the quality of life there is FAR better. There is a sense of social inclusion, and a sense of social justice.You come back here and its
like a big plantation, the people on the hill and the workers in the fields. I am almost retired, but I feel for these kids who are on their way into
this mess.

People are pretty idiotic to compare a country like Norway to a country like the United States - Norway has very little cultural differences as most
people there are white Anglo Saxon's. In a state like New Jersey or in New York on a single block we can have people from 100 different countries with
different views and opinions. In New Jersey alone we have 1.5 x the population as the entire country of Norway. How can we be expected to appease all
of these different points of view?

Im not saying Norway isnt a wonderfully progressive country and a beautiful place to live, but to compare it to living in the United States of America
is well pretty idiotic.

I disagree--I would hope that in 100 years from now, people will appreciate a good work ethic and the time that our society invested into building the
foundation for this utopian world that you seem to believe will exist in the future.

What the hell is wrong with our current generation of living human beings that we think that hard work and striving to make a better life for one's
self and family is such a horrendous thing? People like the OP sits there one their computer (made possible by people who pioneered the technology,
working well more than 60hrs/week in their garages) and pretends to lecture our culture--the one who made the internet and personal computers
possible--about how hard work and sometimes long hours is a bad thing.

Give me a GD break--threads like this are so misguided that it's nearly laughable.

I would be laughing, if it weren't so disheartening.

Many of us in America have a happy balance between a good job (that we worked hard to get, moving up from min-wage jobs to what we have now) and a
great personal life. Many of us are happy without a massive amount of material things, and even though the American culture may covet material
possessions as a general rule, it's the desire to have these possessions or expensive experiences that keep our economy going. It's what keeps us
having jobs and being able to provide for ourselves and our families.

If threads like this want to scoff at American society, laugh at the idiots who pay $8 for a coffee in the morning, every day, and then wonder why, at
the end of the pay period, they just can't seem to get ahead and will end up financially struggling in their "golden years."

Capitalism is not the devil in the world, it's the lack of common sense...the lack of individual responsibility...the lack of critical thinking...the
prevalence of apathy, and all of the things similar to this that are turning our society into something that is lacking overall. We live in a
selfie-obsessed age where people are mostly concerned about themselves, and even then, they don't understand how to take control of their lives or
plan for the future. Instead, the are increasingly thinking that government will be their sugar daddy for the remainder of their lives, expecting this
or that safety net and this or that social protection to keep them superficially happy and temporarily content, not realizing that being shielding
from the harsh realities of life is doing them massive harm overall.

It's the mental state of our current society that is the problem, not capitalism. When the individual finally starts pulling its head out of its own
ass and remembers that there are other people in this world other than one's self, we might start making some strides to make our society something
desirable again.

But then again, I think those who always see the grass as being greener everywhere else will never be happy where they live. There are people in
Norway, I'm sure, who would love to live in the U.S. and be able to experience the possibility of earning massive rewards for the 60+ hours that
they're willing to invest in making a better future for themselves instead of just focusing on making sure that they get to go home at 4pm instead of
5pm that particular day.

It's all about the mindset of the individual, and for the life of me, I can't see why, if someone like the OP seems so dissatisfied with their culture
and living conditions, that they really don't take control of their life and move. Sure, they say they are trying to better society for all Americans,
but they must remember that one person's utopia is another person's living hell. I think that the reality is that they're just of the personality that
prefers to wallow in their own misery than do something about it.

Yes, it is idiotic, but it happens all of the time. I'm glad you pointed this out--I've done so numerous times on other threads. Trying to equate a
nation the size of one of our smaller states to the whole of the U.S. and pretending that what works for them works for everyone here is the epitome
of ignorance--willful ignorance, I would argue.

This exact philosophy is why the 10th Amendment exists, giving states sovereignty over everything (supposedly) not expressly reserved for the federal
government to handle. But just like our economic system, that idea has been hijacked and bastardized, too.

Yes, it is idiotic, but it happens all of the time. I'm glad you pointed this out--I've done so numerous times on other threads. Trying to equate a
nation the size of one of our smaller states to the whole of the U.S. and pretending that what works for them works for everyone here is the epitome
of ignorance--willful ignorance, I would argue.

This exact philosophy is why the 10th Amendment exists, giving states sovereignty over everything (supposedly) not expressly reserved for the federal
government to handle. But just like our economic system, that idea has been hijacked and bastardized, too.

So now its size thats the problem? Sanders doesnt even want the exact format so I have no idea why you keep thinking he wants to copy-paste a whole
system. Now that is ignorance.

You forgot one thing.... Norways treassure also has a surplus of 6.000 million crowns.... that's roughly 1 billion dollars on the plus side.

All the nordic countries are pretty much the same when it comes to work ethics. We all found out long ago that there's no such thing as "achievement"
or reward for working 60 hour weeks.... I don't understand why anyone would think that. I mean.... sure, the family of a 60 hour week dad must be so
proud, the family which he doesn't spend time with.
Where's the reward? I'm not taking my hat off for anyone who's proud of working his ass off like that.

I work 37 hours a week, down to a tee. If I end up with an hour or two more than I'm supposed to, since my boss doesn't like to pay over time, you can
be damn sure that I'll shave off those hours on other days.

I get 5 weeks of paid vacation each year, that's ofcourse not counting the christian holidays (weeee who thought religion was useful for
something).

This means I actually have time to spend with my family. Even on work days, splashing out on my sons floor playing with Lego or blasting some
snowtroopers on the PS4.

NOTHING workwise could ever make up for these experiences. I don't care if you can buy an expensive car, # that, your kid doesn't give a damn if you
drive an expensive car, except ofcourse if you manage to brainwash him in order to compensate for that fact that you weren't there for a third of his
life.

And even though I only earn 50.000 dollars a year before tax, just like in Norway and Sweden, I don't have to ever worry about medical bills, school
payments etc etc. All is taken care off.

This is what makes a people as a whole "happy"... that whole competition thing you got going..? That's what is tearing your country apart. You all got
your eyes on that imaginary prize that only the few initiated people knows how to get or knows the right people to get it.

And this is exactly what you will get loads more off once you've come to the stupid conclusion that Hillary is better than Bernie.

Why anyone would vote for a GMS bribed, Monsanto loving, Israel kneeling liar like her is beyond my understanding.

You want to know what sets Norway (or nordic countries) apart from the US? I honestly think we care more about each other, than constantly trying to
best our neighbour.

The main difference between Norway and the US is on how Money is spent based on whats in the best Interest of the United States Of America. Now, you
can argue if that is the american People or the governments and its elite friends.

Right of the bat i can tell you that Our government in Norway couldent dream of having a military budjet like the US have. How would Our government
defend that to the People?
They would have had to use the same form of political arguments the US government use towards its People

.... Terror,terror, keeps us safe, terror, terror.

We dont feel that we have to spend 610++ billion dollares a year to keep us safe. And about 189,8 billion dollars a year to make sure we have enemies
around the world (implimented American intelligence interests). 80,1 billion of this is Defense Intelligence and this amount is classified. But it is
at least 80,1 billion.

I think most people would say the main difference with Norway (and many other small European countries) is they have a very small homogeneous
population. They also don't have hundreds of thousands of new citizens legally or illegally immigrating to their country each year.

What about retail type jobs in Norway? Do their shops close early? Do retail workers work short hours as well? If so, do they have extra shifts of
people to cover these hours? Or do retail workers get the shaft while everyone else is out taking a hike?

It all depends what retail we are talking about. Food retail is usually open for 10-15 hours a day. While specialized retails such as hardware and
electric is open for about 7-10 hours a day.
The retails that have long opening hours has two shifts.

Hope that helps answer you questions. Please feel free to ask if you are wondering about more.

Hmm, groceries are open 24 hours a day in most parts of the US. Other retail, 12 to 14 hours. Just bringing it up because the OP says that everyone is
home at 3pm, but then I guess everyone but retail workers. And it wouldn't work in the US because our stores are open almost all the time. Then you
have other behind the scenes workers, like warehouses, shipping departments, telephone operators. I just don't see how everyone can be done and home
so early. Not unless we change our lifestyles completely.

So now its size thats the problem? Sanders doesnt even want the exact format so I have no idea why you keep thinking he wants to copy-paste a whole
system. Now that is ignorance.

The OP is comparing Norway to the U.S.

Your apparent need to bring Sanders into the conversation doesn't matter to me, as that's not the point of my comment to which you replied.

Yes, contrary to what polite women might say, size does matter, and not every system scales proportionately and can work. Just like capitalism
probably wouldn't work out in a culture with a thousand people who is cut off from the rest of the world.

The population of Norway is about 5 million including leagal New Citizens. But the reason why Our government is doing so well economically is do to
how Our government spend Our Oil money and taxes. From oil Income alone the government is only allowed to spend 4%. But hardly have to.

Offcource the situation for Our government would be different if we had to take in more People who have to rely on government benefits and support.
THe majority of the younger People who enter Norway have problems adapting to Our culture. THe other problem is that Our government NAV give quite a
high payrate to these people so that it is not possible for them to get a job that would pay them more after tax. Why get a job that gives you less
after tax...right.

So what they do for exstra Income is to become criminals...sell.. drugs and steal. THat is tax free mony on the side. That will give these People a
good livingstandard.

Norway is fortunate in that it has a fairly homogeneous society where pretty much everybody (with some exceptions) is the same and wants the same
things and believes the same things. That makes it a lot easier than trying to hold together a society where people come from all over and basically
only share one belief -- that they should be allowed to prosper on their own terms.

I totally agree with you! And that's why I push so hard for greater focus on the Arts, Architecture, and the humanities in general. We desperately
need to switch focus away from the business of "things" and start encouraging capital and government investment into "ideas" and cultural
enhancements. What I see in the US, particularly in the cities is just "ugly". Ugly development of ugly buildings focused on nothing more than
moving "things" into commerce. The whole country needs be rebuilt to focus on inspirational architecture that promotes even more creativity and
wisdom enhancing activities.

What good is it to have a "first world" economy if your whole country looks like a big box store, a tasteless, drab mall surrounded by tasteless and
near vacant strip centers. It does nothing for the soul.

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