Looking At The Blue Jays’ Future Salary Obligations

A case can be made that Friday's Vernon Wellstrade was the most significant move of the offseason. The Angels took on his entire contract, freeing up a ton of present and future payroll for the Blue Jays. Wells is scheduled to make $23MM in 2011 and then another $21MM each season from 2012-2014, and it's fairly obvious how shedding that much of an obligation will allow GM Alex Anthopoulos to improve his team.

Now that Wells is off the books, let's use Cot's Baseball Contracts to see what the Jays are on the hook for over the next few seasons. This is guaranteed money only, so arbitration and pre-arbitration contracts are not included. Same with option years, only the buyouts are counted since that's the only portion of the contract that is guaranteed.

2013: $16.15MM: Almost all Lind, Romero, and Hechevarria. Davis' buyout comes into play as well.

2014: $9.75MM. Romero and Lind's $2MM buyout.

2015: $7.75MM: All Romero.

2016: $600K. Romero's buyout.

Aaron Hill's contract contains club options for 2012 ($8MM), 2013 ($8MM), and 2014 ($10MM) with no buyouts, though the 2014 option goes away if the team does not exercise all three before this upcoming season. Either way, it seems like a safe bet that at least the 2012 option will be picked up, increasing that season's total obligation to a still modest $25.4MM.

Toronto holds seven of the first 80 picks in next June's draft, including the Angels' second rounder for Scott Downs, and Anthopoulos has emphasized that method of talent acquisition since taking over. A portion of the Wells savings could be spent there. The club is also set up well for a run at either Albert Pujols or Prince Fielder next offseason, should they choose to go that route.

It was just 18 months ago that the Blue Jays owed over $160MM to Wells and Alex Rios, yet today they owe the pair nothing. Those savings can go a long way towards building the next playoff team in Toronto.

Absolutely mind-blowing, but it was not his call to hate Mike Napoli so much that they had to get rid of him, that would be Mike “Tony Soprano” “I have a 10 year contract so I can pull crap like this” Scioscia’s fault.

I guess the 10 year deal to Scioscia is also hurting the team more than helping it.

It’s hard to say. Scioscia is a guy who manages around speed and manufacturing runs. First off, they lost Lackey, Santana began to pitch badly, and Nick (R.I.P.) Adenhart was killed in a car accident. He lost lost Figgins, Teixeira, K-Rod, Shields went downhill, Vlad, while Abreu had a slump year. It’s hard to blame it all on him.

abreu has been one of the most consistent guys in baseball always hitting what at least 20 hrs, stealing 20 bases and getting 100 rbis with a few down years here and there…including last year but he still his 20 hrs and stole 24 bases, the move to DH will do him wonders. Cant blame him for that, and you cant blame him for tex when they had kendry. the year they lost tex to the yankees that first season tex and kendry has almost identical seasons. and no one could have prodicted the broken leg….he should have forced the ownership to make a harder move at figgens. Lackey’s loss was fine because of the rest of their staff

The Canadian dollar’s parody with the US Dollar also plays a role in this. All else being equal, the Jay’s don’t have to sell 110 ticket for every 100 that a US team sells. That’s like a 10% bump in the budget right there over the past 5 years.

If you have the right accountant and you dont maintain a permanant residence as an American/International (non Canadian) born player, you can pretty much even out the numbers. Also, if we are talking about someone in the category of a Puhols, then what are the chances he ends up anywhere near Florida with what will be at least a 22-25 mil a year contract…

I think the NL Central is getting back up there actually, it might even be the 2nd best division in baseball. The Brewers seem back to form after addressing their biggest need in a big way. The Cubs will at least get back to a mediocre state, as their rotation is not bad, and the Cardinals and Reds are expected to be as good as they usually are.

one flaw in the NL east…strasburg wont pitch at all this year and no one knows how TJ will affect him so early in his career(i as a baseball fan hope he comes back fine and does not rush anything, i would love to see him throughout his full career) and harper more than likely will not see the majors untill 2012 at the very very very earliest more likely 2013…remeber he is only like 18 years old there is a ton of adjustments from JR college level to the mlb(consider highschool baseball is different from JUCO, JUCO is different from NCAA, NCAA is different from low-A, etc, etc get my point) same with ramos he probably wont crack the big team untill 2012

The Mets are not going to be a pushover. They had their whole house fall down around them last season and they were still a .500 team. They lost about 120 games combined between their 1, 4, and 5 hitters, and their #1 starter.

I don’t think they’re going to be a World Series contender or anything, but they have the potential to still be competitive even in a year in which they’re running out the clock on their bad contracts.

Here is the problem with the NL Central. Yes you have the Reds and the Cardinals. And they are good teams, add in the Brewers if things go right with the SP and bullpen and thats interesting. The Cubs have talent (they just lost it), and the Astros are not terrible. But exactly none of those teams are going to worry the Phillies. The Cubs and Brewers are going downhill – Cubs are older and worse and Brewers are going about to lose their best player. I would contend the division as a whole is getting worse. The improving division in the NL is the east. Nationals, Marlins, Braves are building some nice pieces but it isn’t a tough division.

The AL East is a flat out monster division because at the moment, the favourite for the division finished third last year and won 89 games. That is better than all NL Central teams bar the Reds (who won 2 more). Take out the injuries the Red Sox had, and you could have had 3 AL East teams with better records than the NL Central champion. 4 AL East teams finished above .500. (only 2 for the NL Central). This is why the AL East is scary – as much as people talk about they beat up eachother, the division as a whole destroys the rest of baseball.

We do need to remember something about the Blue Jays here. Everyone loves the trade form their perspective (and rightly so) but they didn’t exactly make the 2011 team better – they traded one of their better players for a catcher who can’t catch, so 1B/DH and an outfielder no one really wants. They won the trade because they freed up money they may nor may not spend soon. As a Red Sox fan it makes me worry, but not about 2011, about 2015.

the brewers best player became zack greinke this off season..yeah they will lose prince but they could have a chance that he comes back through arb with the flooded 1st base market next season..

As for the players the BJs got…Napoli fills one big hole in the lineup for the blues…he will play either first or DH along with lind(who ever is better there with the glove in ST will get the job the other will DH) They moved Wells to slot davis in there…yes davis wont hit for the power wells will. but he is a solid .280+ avg hitter with a career .330 obp(not great not bad) who has 50 stolen base speed, he did it last yar and the defense is less with davis but not enough to kill you but the big thing is the money spent….juan will either start in left, be a back up LF/RF/DH/1st, or traded again either way its a win no matter wat

The Jays were 19 games better than Baltimore in 2010. What improvements have the Orioles made to make up such a huge gap? Some of their young guys will likely improve (Wieters, Matusz, etc.) but you think Reynolds and Derrek Lee are going to make that up? Even if the Jays slide back 7-8 games (Marcum/Wells trades), I don’t see Baltimore passing Toronto this year.

Jays records the last 5 years. 85, 75, 86, 83, 87. most years finishing 15 games better then the O’s. So I don’t see how it was such an anomaly, more like 2009 was the anomaly. I don’t think the Jays will win 85+ next year but will defiantly be better then the O’s barring red sox like health problems. I know your not saying this but i find it so funny how O’s fans say it was a fluke year for the jays but say how good the O’s have become since they got buck sholwalter like that is not an anomaly.

Explain to me why I’m crazy then. Aside from Bautista what is so extraordinary about the 2010 Jays? A young pitching staff on the rise. Enough in the pen to get by. If Hill/Lind can rebound and Bautista doesn’t totally implode the Jays should be a decent enough club in 2011.

Aside from Bautista nobodies numbers on the team was outlandish though. Losing Wells will bring the HR totals down, but, if EE plays more his numbers should climb as should Lind and Snider. The lineup was built for power and that’s what it ended up with. They’ll hit less homers this season, but, could very well score more depending on how a few guys do this season. Tell me, how many losses did you have TO pegged for going into 2010? The team isn’t that bad.

LOL at drugged Tony Reagins, truth is he is probably on drugs now, or heavily medicated after realizing he has to pay Wells 21 million a year for the next three years as Napoli crushes 25 plus HRs as the Jays’ DH for what 3 million?

Question is – do you really think the Jays would take the Wells savings, and then put all of it, and more, into a player like Fielder or Pujols, that may very well turn into an albatross a few years down the road.

To me, I see the Wells savings going mostly into locking up the Jays young core players – like Morrow, Cecil, Drabek, Snider, Lawrie, etc. I still only see the Blue Jays dipping into free agency to sign complimentary pieces, like a David DeJesus next offseason, not spending huge money on superstars.

Yeah, scouting and drafting will definitely be important, that’s the other area some of the money will go. I just mentioned locking up youngsters as the biggest impact, as it seems like the organization is heavily committed to scouting and drafting as is, even before this crazy trade.

Question is – do you really think the Jays would take the Wells savings, and then put all of it, and more, into a player like Fielder or Pujols, that may very well turn into an albatross a few years down the road.

ya i agree, more to lock up the young talent, I’d like to see snider and bautista get a deal. I also think any big addition are going to come through a trade much like the lawrie one. The Jays will have even more pitching depth after next years draft and I can see them trade a guy like Cecil, or Scrabble next year for something of substance.

Pujols and Fielder shouldn’t be discussed in the same breath. Fielder has a terrible body and old man skills that could rapidly deteriorate. Pujols is arguably a top-10 hitter in the history of baseball and a great athlete showing no discernible signs of decline.

as good as the core group is, it won’t be enough to thwart the likes of bos, ny, tb alone going forward. as they get closer they are going to need a few more star players to come in and put them over the hump. probably in the form of an ace SP and another big bat. and thats assuming snyder continues to develop jbau doesn’t regress and aaron hill and lind can regain there form.

If they need to acquire stars, I just think it will come through trades, not free agency. If they need an ace, they’ll be out in front to pick up someone like Greinke, and the continued investment in scouting and drafting will keep premium talent in the system that they can use to acquire those types of players. The money freed up will make it easier to add pieces like that, with much greater payroll flexibility, but still only committing in smart ways. Trade for two years of Greinke at $13M a year? Absolutely. Sign Greinke for 8-years and $140M when he hits free agency? Leave that move for the Yankees or the Angels. Or let the Orioles make that move, and then struggle to stay afloat long-term.

you say if as though you think its plausible they could achieve perennial post-season success without ponying up and bring in a few high paid high profile guys… which i think they absolutely do. but that’s why freeing about all this money is so intriguing.

how they go about it is really up in the air and based solely on circumstance. your logic is sound, but sometimes a longer deal can favour the club (as well as the player). In Toronto’s case, if they can get there hands on the closest thing there is to a sure commodity (like Greinke, or King Felix), then I think you pony up the bucks and give them the 5 or even 6 year deal…(not 8…)thereby assuring yourself of their services for the forseeable future.

However the Jays go about putting the pieces together in the future this new administration is proving to be far more prudent then regimes past which I’m pretty thrilled about.

But Anthopoulos, since essentially the day he took over, has made it clear that the way you get those superstars needed to anchor a contending team is to draft/trade for them as prospects, develop them, and then have the flexibility to sign them to team-friendly long-term deals. Maybe I’m missing one or two, but can you really think of a long-term free agent signing, of 6 years or more, that has really worked out for the team?

It just really makes little sense to sign an elite player through free agency, because you’re going to end up regretting that deal, and it will limit your financial flexibility down the road. Trading for the pieces and holding them for a year or two is generally much better, as the talent you trade away sometimes turns into nothing, and you don’t have to pony up for so many years of the player.

Develop elite prospects, sign reasonable free agents to short-term contracts, and trade for elite players to put you over the edge – that’s a model for success, even in the AL East. It’s what the Rays have been trying to do, except with the money to retain young stars, and the financial flexibility to trade for players making large salaries in the short-term.

Also, the Rays aren’t really a good example. They simply didn’t attempt to compete and cashed in on high draft pick slots. They made some nice moves to acquire Garza and signing Pena as a minor lge FA but not much else.

Albert Pujols has been a Cardinal for 10 years, Ichiro Suzuki,10 years with the mariners, Derek Jeter, Yankees respectfully, shoot throw Jorge Posada in there, he has worked out for 10 years, I could go on but there are those contracts where you scratch your head 3 years later and go shoot three more years of this bum?

I would take Pujols at 30 mil a year for 5 years. I know that he is looking for a 10 year deal like A-Rods but I think the 5 year 150 mil could be quite enticing for him and a decent deal for the Jays too.

If you have the money, Pujols is as close as they come to a sure bet. There is nothing to suggest he is going to tale off soon. He brings great leadership to a club and a community. He will be hitting huge milestones which will garner national interest. Oh, and he could hit for average and power in front of Snider for almost a decade. IT would be awesome.

i dont think the jay are worried about pujols tailing off. More so the fact that he could get injured at anytime and thats far to much money to invest into one guy. Although as a jays fan that would be a dream to have pujols in a jays uniform.

If you told me these two teams were talking about a Wells trade, I would think the Jays would have to pay half his salary in order to pull something off. If they did it would still have been a good trade for the them. Wells is a shadow of the player he once was. Post all the fangraphs stats you want, the guy isn’t worth half of what he’ll be making in the last few years of that deal.

haha likely. reports were that the angels were pursuing wells at the winter meetings, the angels likely wanted the jays to cover a substantial amount of his contract and AA wouldnt. A few signings fall through for the angels and they obviously became a little bit rushed to add a bat to their lineup.

Albert Pujols is the greatest hitter of our generation. Hard to see any contract of his being an albatross. Signing him would be like signing Babe Ruth to a free agent contract. Prince Fielder doesn’t even belong in the same breath. Either way, regardless of whether or not AA was willing, it’s hard to see Pujols coming to Toronto.

Just a random thought, but I can see the Yankees trying to do something crazy like trade away Teixeira, and then sign Pujols. Teixeira probably wouldn’t have much excess value – though much of that would depend on how his 2011 goes – but if Vernon Wells could be traded, Teixeira certainly can.

I think the Jays should seriously consider a Fielder/Agonz/Pujols/Votto type for 1b. Whether they wait one season or a few to spend the Wells money it really doesn’t matter as there is tons of talent in the FA 1b pool, a position the Jays lack in terms of quality prospects.

Yeah, I’m a Phils fan and always liked Gose cuz of his wheels. But the dude doesn’t hit all that well. I had hopes of a future lead off man…but he is young yet and I think he will develop into a Victorino-type with more stolen bases.

Considering he spent last year in HiA as a 19 year old and improved as the season went on, I find it hard to be too critical of his bat. Why is projecting him for a 2013 debut wildly optimistic? He didn’t hit -that- badly last year and will almost definitely spend most of the upcoming season in AA. Why would he be 4 seasons off from being MLB ready?

I’d be very surprised if he spent the majority of the year in AA. He was the youngest player in the league and struggled. He’s going to (or at the very least should) repeat the level. That would put him starting 2012 in AA which means at best he sees the bigs by 2013, but isn’t a regular and the everyday leadoff guy.

Is it impossible that he’s ready by then? Of course not. It’s just “wildly optimistic”

You listed 8 prospects with little to no major league experience and you believe we could “make some serious noise in the AL East” with this roster??? I’m as hopeful as the next Jays fan, but be serious. By the way, where is Hill? or Davis? or Napoli? This lineup does not stand up to Boston or NY at all. We should pretty much count on it being 2015 or later before we make a run for the AL East, Pujols or not. The Cardinals have Pujols and a better supporting cast than you listed above and they can’t even win the NL Central… Oh, and they have a better Manager too. Don’t forget our Manager has zero MLB experience as the head guy yet. One player isn’t the solution!

its true that some players on that list have done nothing. But you cant say then that they wont do nothing as well. The fact is in 2012 they could be stars, they could not but do say that wont stack up with NY or Boston makes not sense since its 2 years away and you dont know A, what thouse players will do over the next 2 years and B, what the Yanks and Sox do or team looks. Bautista is a good exsample at this time last year poepl would say he was a bench player at best. how much a year can change things.

What I can say is that Gose, McGuire, D’Arnaud for sure are not expected to be MLB players by 2012. Bautista actually was always scouted to be a power bat and to be a starter. He finally met his potential late, so if we are going off that example then your 2012 projection seems even more absurd. Bautista was brought to the Jays to be a starter and was a starter from day 1 last year. Also, if you look at the players Boston and NY have under contract through 2013 then you would agree the lineup projected doesn’t compete. I’m not saying we won’t win it all, but I am saying I’m not optimistic. Everyone is so impatient with the Jays and wants these prospects up immediately, that’s just not how things work the majority of the time. Have patience and have faith in the system!

Thats more than a little harsh. I would expect him to bounce back this year more than repeat last year… I would be happy with .280-.325-.800 line which is close to his career average. As awful as last year was, he still hit 26 homers and had 68 RBI’s batting just north of the Mendoza line. He is a lock for 25-35 HR and 75+ RBI’s. Not bad for a 2nd basman making moderate money.

His power number’s I don’t mind.. but as a middle infielder his most important job should be to get on base, which he stinks at. He can’t take a walk, and his long swing doesn’t produce many singles.. I’m sure he will have a better year, but even at his peak I don’t see him as an impact player for the Jays. In 2-3 years if Lawrie is manning 3rd and Hechavarria manning SS, I’d much rather keep Escobar at 2nd with minimal power and a .380 OBP than Hill..

As we all saw last year, hitting HR’s is great and all, but someones got to be on base sometime

Wow, how the mighty have fallen. The guy wins a Silver Slugger one year and shoulda been a gold glover, then the next year he is being thrown out with last weeks trash. Lets get a little perspective here. All things remaining equal, the guy is still a top 10 second baseman until he has more than just one bad season. And that bad one wasn’t as horrible as some are making it out to be.

Thats the thing Jaybooster.. I’m not turning on the guy because of his 1 bad year.. I never liked him even during his silver slugger season…

To me he represents everything that has been wrong with the mindset of the Jays in the last decade.. In the minors he was a low slugging, but high average/decent obp, good defensive type of infielder.. Then he arrives and all he wants to do is his dingers.. and don’t think AA doesn’t feel the same way, you’ll see when his 3 year option isn’t picked up before 2011..

I much rather have a slugging first baseman, and a speedy brian roberts type of 2b..

Fair enough comments. I still think that in the absence of a slugging first baseman (lets hope Lind bounces back) you take a second baseman that is capable of 30-100 and maybe even throw in 12-15 sb’s on a consistant basis and be ecstatic with the results. Roberto Alomar he isn’t. But Jeff Kentish isn’t a bad fallback…

The Alex Rios contract would go a long way toward building the next playoff team in Toronto.
Also, if the Jays lose both their arb cases, their payroll this year would be $66M. They had a ton of money to spend on free agents before moving Wells.

I agree with this^. They didn’t spend money not because they didn’t have it, but because it didn’t make sense to spend it. The surprising years out of Bautista, Hill and Lind really left the team confused as to what exactly it has. It makes far more sense to go through 2011 and see exactly what assets are useful and what ones need to be cut (for example, if Hill has another disastrous year, he’s gone).

Once they properly identify the pieces they need to make that next step, it seems like a safe bet that AA will try to make a move to acquire them.

That all being said, shedding the massive money due to Wells creates even MORE flexibility going forward, especially given the likelihood of a decline in VWs skills and thus is a fantastic move.

AA is turning himself into one hell of a GM. He got Toronto to take on Wells entire salary for Napoli and Rivera which are nice pieces coming back. Wells will be a loss for sure but 7 picks of the first 80 and a huge amount of flexability now that they freed up Wells. AA is doing some very nice things in Toronto. Watch and learn Mets.

Angels get Prince with what money? They’re barely on their feet financially now they won’t be able to spend 25 million on Fielder (He wants 8 years 300 million last i checked). Plus the Jays don’t have any solid 1st base prospects King Albert or Prince would be perfect: great bat, leadership (more on Alberts part), and a guy who will put fans in the seats…which is really lacking in Toronto. AA should keep doing his thing, but with all the money we have we need to put it to good use.

Napoli and Rivera will be on other teams by the trade deadline.. The Red Sox are light on the catching front and will probably be the first team to come calling. I don’t see Napoli being a short term solution, his inability to throw out base-stealers is terrible, he is terrible with runners in scoring position. Plus the Jays future at C are in JP Arencebia and Travis d’Arnaud. If the Jays intend to spend the Wells money it would probably be on a elite starter or closer.

How many catchers of the future have the jays burned through the last decade? Every year there is a new Robinson Diaz and every year a Greg Zaun gets most of the playing time. It’d be nice if Aaron Cibia and d’Arnaud both pan out but I wouldn’t put money on it.

Think about how many bombs Prince would hit at the Rogers Center, 50..60 maybe? We’re winning 85 games with garbage, imagine how many games we’ll win with superstars! AA is hands down executive of 2010 and 2011 and if he keeps this up he’ll be in the Hall someday.

A player who consistantly puts up big numbers, consistency is what we lack, Hill and Lind have one good year and last year was really off, Bautista has one good year who knows if he’ll keep it up, the talent is there but we aren’t winning 100 games because we’re inconsistent. To me thats what a superstar is, consistently putting up big numbers that greatly affect the outcome of the game.

They have good ball players, but we don’t come close to comparing to the Yankees and Red Sox talent. We have young talent who has yet to prove their worth and that isn’t looked as highly upon in this league compared to guys like A-Rod, Jeter, and Tex to name a few making 20 million a year and are consistently making it into the playoffs and world series for that matter. Its not garbage that was an overexaggeration but we do not compare to the talent thats out there in the league.

reply fail on my part. it was supposed to be a reply to some other guy, who said we should trade Napoli because Arencibia is better.

I honestly don’t understand that logic. Arencibia is cheaper, younger, and under control, but i honestly don’t see .800+ OPS year in year out from him. Napoli has being doing that his whole career, albeit in part-time.

Napoli can catch and call a game, its just his terrible arm holding him from all-star level. But really, difference between 25% and 35% caught stealing is like MAYBE 10-13 steals a season. Not huge.

well thank heavens your a pro scout who doesn’t see a .800 OPS from Arencibia..

AA did you read that?? Frank said he won’t OPS .800 so you should just trade him now, for nothing.

I guess his .827 minor league OPS doesn’t lead you to believe, and thats with a terrible year of .728 OPS because he couldn’t see the damn ball.

And your last point on the difference between 25%-35% caught stealing is another winner.. I wonder which catchers get run on more.. in tighter situations… creating more stolen bases… I dunno ask Victor Martinez.

.800+ OPS in minors translates to .800+ OPS in majors?
do you really see Arencibia being a better hitter than Napoli?
Maybe he can slug as much, or a bit better, but Napoli can actually walk at above average clip.
I’ll give him the D, Napoli does have a pretty bad arm.

This is great news for the Jays, but i’m just hoping they spend the money wisely. There’s no reason to rush this thing now, so guys like Pujols or Prince might not be on the top of their agenda. I’d obviously take Pujols over Prince (I actually have a St.Louis Pujols jersey :)), but I don’t see Pujols coming to Toronto, rather being re-signed by the Cards. Prince will hit the open market, but his body and defense really scare me, as players of his ilk usually decline very fast, so Toronto might end up with another “immovable” contract, as i’m sure Prince is going to ask for at least 6-7 years at over 100mil. I’m not sure of the upcoming free agent lists, but I think Toronto would also be looking at adding another starter to this rotation, probably an ace if they can find one. Overall it’s a great time to be a Jay fan, with good young talent already in the majors, a good farm system that is getting better, and 7 picks in the first 80 in the upcoming draft, their future looks brighter now than I can remember in the past 10 years at least. That combined with what appears to be a very competent GM, the future is looking great in Toronto.

As much as I never liked Rios…The sad reality is we could really use him right now and his contract isn’t all that bad.. If the Jays knew they could dump Vernon’s full contract in 2011 I doubt very much they would have let Rios walk for nothing.

meh, rios was probably one of my least favorite jays. had boatloads of talent for sure, but he never hit for us after he was in the HR derby that one year. defense was decent; good range, good arm strength – tho lost accuracy cause he threw sidearm and his ball sailed all the time. but he did too many stupid things to be considered an elite defender and never seemed to lay out either, which was annoying.

always seemed to play the game like he was on vacation and had a negative relationship with fans, media, etc. still not sorry hes gone.

As a citizen… Absolutely agree. As an outsider, there are many Tax loopholes to be taken advantage of. As an example, Vernon Wells was not paing more than 10% of his overall tax burden to Canada. The bulk of it was paid to the IRS and thats with the lax taxing in the state of Texasa (very similar to Florida in overall taxation).

I was up north for the weekend.. When a friend sent me a text saying Jays traded Wells.. I just replied “I’m not drunk yet” When he replied no for real.. I said “how much money did we send?”

I mean we sent 6 million to the phillies when we traded the best pitcher in baseball..How the Angels brass let this go down is baffling… . Vernon’s not a bad player, goin back over his career he’s done well, but to take that contract, that monster, undeserved contract, is just ridiculous.. . and then to give a piece up in Napoli is just, well its just tops..

My 1 concern though, is that AA is now on the radar of GM’s as a vulture.. Many of his other moves that panned out, the escobar, morrow trades were more low key, and haven’t blossomed yet.. but this move may make other GM’s more skeptical when dealing with AA.. because its so awesome. .

Nah. Teams know who they’re getting. The Angels rolled the dice and decided to pay more on a deal that only strains them for four years. Of course, paying $23/$21/$21/$21 in those four years is too much of a risk for anyone to deem all that reasonable.

LOL. Comparing JP Retardy to AA is like comparing apples to bowling balls. One has a plan, the other promises one this and goes year to year trying to save his job. And getting a huge break? Thats what “Great” GM’s do. Take advantage of the misfortunes of others to benefit their franchise…

He could hardly not exceed expectation considering everyone with half a brain realize he is worthless except for you. Werent you the same one saying the sox were world series locks this time last year? How far’d they go again? Like I said, your time of reckoning will come and it will be sweet!

The bats are nice, CF is a defensive upgrade, what will make the difference is the plethora of outstanding young arms already with the Jays, and the pipeline full of more coming up. “You can never have enough pitching” …unless you are Toronto. That’s where the talent will come from to trade for elite players to fill the gaps. Just like they traded Markum for a 20 year old 5 tool prospect who destroyed Double A as a 19 year old, and A ball the year before. It wouldn’t shock me to see Lawrie come north with the big team this spring.
It is a long shot agreed, but it’s more than possible. Lawrie and Hill cover 2nd and 3rd, who cares which one plays where. Joey Bats and his cannon stay in RF where he belongs. Drabek in the 4 slot and Scrabble/Litcsh at 5. The loser in the pen. Stewart and MacGuire all teed up and ready to go in Vegas.

At least try not to post rubbish when making a point. i never said the Sox were locks last year but i am this year! And ive got at least 5 years before i even half to worry about finishing behind a country that worships Dudley Do Right! LOL!

both. The Blue Jays are young and strong and have a TON of money and are investing a ton in the draft and will probably use a huge chunk of the voided wells to put into future drafts. AA is one of the best scouts in baseball…In 2 years the redsox will have gonzo, youlk, bard, buck..with crawford and else being question marks(crawford only because his game is predicated on speed which has been declining) and else a ? because we need to see how those injuries affected him

You’d have to think AA would make a strong run at one of them. He’s constantly gone on about the fact that you need elite talent throughout the lineup to break through the AL East. Getting either of those guys would lock in serious talent for years to come. I think the remaining outstanding questions – Bautista, CF, etc – are a separate issue.

There’s every reason for the Cardinals to want to keep Pujols, but that doesn’t mean there’s every reason for Pujols to want to stay with the Cardinals. (At least, not in these heady post-reserve-clause days.)

How is it absurd considering it looks like a real possibility that the Cards may not offer AP his market value, the Sox and Agonz have NOT signed yet and Votto ONLY signed over his arb years and not his FA ones? Of the three, Agonz is the least likely and that’s simply because I can’t see the Sox not doing whatever they have to keep Agonz.

Remember, the Jays have a huge pool of people to draw from. TV coverage for the entire country and every game covered. Top that with Canada having one of the highest internet saturation levels on the planet.

Another thing to consider is just exactly who these free agents are. There’s been a giant shift in recent years to teams locking up their young players early, and it seems like the only players that are hitting free agency before they’re already past their prime are Scott Boras clients, who aren’t exactly the one’s that come on reasonable deals.

If you want elite talent for the long-term, nowadays it seems like drafting/trading for and developing these players is the only to get them. With the moves he’s made as GM, it’s obvious that this is the direction Anthopoulos plans to go.

I think you hit perfectly. Pujols would basically pay for himself. I’m not so sure that they have to show more progress this year for them to pursue Albert so much as they can’t regress. Add Pujols to the Jays and things are going to get interesting… until Selig adds more teams to the playoffs so that the Yanks and Sox get their guaranteed spots.

imo, teams sign those contracts without any expectation that the player will live up to them (werth, crawford, lee, ARod, all of them). forget WAR and any convoluted stats, they are all bad contracts. the only thing that makes them worthwhile is winning, which is an educated gamble for the team. if you win, the contract was worth it, if you lose it wasnt.

Needless to say, AA seems to want the jays damn close to winning before he signs that kind of bad contract.

Is that so? Breaking news from danorage. Or maybe provide a source or a link, because it was pretty big news when they *didn’t* agree to an extension. The trade fell apart and then the Red Sox decided to do it anyway even without the extension.

See I give credit to the Jays for starting to draft well, Im a Jays fan and realize its our future. But really, no matter how much people want to love AA for his draft game, Boston still drafts better, has more picks and takes risks on harder to sign guys and actually signs them.

yeah a 4 win per game, but how many Boston fans had a Manny t-shirt, or a Manny poster or jersey, or came to the game because they would get to see him play? those are real factors to consider to how much they make, even a bad contract, people love to go and boo them, its just how the game works.

this past offseason may have made the red sox the better of the 2 teams…the yankees are more likely to have that extra losing streak during the season to let the jays in…the rays are cooked after this offseason…its the beginning of their reload…but it wont be a case of the jays being let in..this is the AL east, and to make the playoffs you dont get let in, you need that extra 10 game run that one of the yankees and redsox dont make. the jays have the pitching to avoid the slumps and if they add an extra piece that this article mentions next off season they will be very close to a complete team. and when i first saw the angels paying the entire contract, the first thing i thought of was those 2 guys, and if he (the golden boy) doesnt make a strong push for preferrably the younger of the two ill look at this wells trade as a cheap salary dump. and theyd better sign bautista to a 3 or 4 year extention or theyll look cheap again because wells’ contract hardly handcuffed the team owned by a multi-billion dollar corporation, because as they were saying since golden boy arrived, the money is there if they need it. the romero extention gives me enough confidence to make it through this coming season to not be angry

Votto in Toronto makes too much sense for it not to be discussed, he’s a proud Canadian, his father, who was his inspiration/motivation growing up was a diehard Jays fan, and knowing the situation surrounding Votto and his late father, I have a feeling JoVo might have “Winning a championship in Toronto” on his bucketlist.

Pedroia is steadily declining, and with swing mechanics like he has is bound to injure his core muscles, and is susceptible to breaking stuff low and away – pitchers will exploit him, and his average will never be above .280 for the rest of his career. I pin it as .280 peak and a steady decline thereafter.

Lester is a stud, so no arguement there.
Beckett… Aging, and increasingly injury prone – he’s going to be hit or miss.
Bard looks like he’s got what it takes to close, so he’s fine.
Lackey is old, overpayed and overrated.

Redsox look GOOD, but not over the top great – and are in NO way close to as good shape as the Jays are right now in terms of being prepared for the next 5 years.

Pedroia is steadily declining? Of all the silly things I have read on this site in the past week or so, this has got to be up there. Not one single baseball executive, writer, manager or player would agree with you on that. Where on earth are you getting this idea about his swing mechanics guaranteeing an injury? Just a hunch you have?

If Dustin Pedroia doesn’t bat above .280 in his career again, I will literally upload a video onto the internet of me eating my hat. Like actually, no joke, I will eat a baseball hat and film it for all to see.

“Red Sox… are in NO way close to as good shape as the Jays are right now in terms of being prepared for the next 5 years”

Just stop ok! The Sox are in far better shape with young talent mixed in with stars entering their primes! ( what stars do the jays have, answer is none)! We also have a better scouting department and financial resources than almost anyone(hello NY)The Jays fleecing the halos has caused people to lose touch with reality which is the Sox, Yankees and everyone else fighting for third unless they all mature at once like tampa did!

Come on, I bet the Rays will be a better team than the Jays in 5 years, the Rays always draft good and have great talent evaluators and a very shrewd trading system, when it comes to the Jays I always remember 2005 off season where everyone thought wow, they signed some good players, who could stop them, it gave them a second place finish in the AL East and no playoffs.

A) The Sox pitchers (starters) are still very suspect asided from Lester
B) The Jays employ the largest scouting staff in all of baseball now
C) The new rankings will indicate the Jays farm system is far superior to the Red Sox.
D) The Sox just basically blew their entire load of decent to good prospects on the AGon trade.

And if you are laying claim to the AL East from now until infinity, then you have another thing coming.

The Jays owners are THE RICHEST in all of MLB. When the time is right (and god help us with Pujols) the money is there to be spent. With the dollar now above Par and expected to stay there for the forseeable future, that is also something in the favour of a Canadian based team. Enjoy this year as a Sox fan, because the time of reckoning is coming! ALL HAIL KING AA!

Now I actually think the chances of Pujols coming to Toronto is .01% I think he’ll stay in st.louis, and even if he doesn’t I’m not sure why he’d come here at this point BUT… It would be the first time in a long time that a Toronto franchise would have the best position player in the league, no questions asked.. If we lose 70 games with him, I could see the attendance not picking up.. but if the team is winning and he’s playing attendance will pick up big time.

I remember the last time the Canadian dollar was at par and Rogers started blowing their load. Do you remember? AJ, BJ, Troy etc. I know you have a different GM (a better GM) but the Blue Jays caught a HUGE break by beating a GM in a trade when he was desperate. The Sox however traded value (prospects) for value (A-Gone). Also, they got the most coveted free agent position player on the market (Crawford) while not adding all that much in payroll since they let Beltre and V-mart go. Then they let their other free agents go and will re-stock with the deepest draft in years. This is what winning ball teams do. The Blue Jays have won NOTHING in 18 years, when they do you can start comparing yourselves to the Red Sox.

You remind me of a Seattle fan when Jack Z traded for Cliff Lee, everyone thought he was the greatest GM, AA got lucky as did Jack Z, and you will have nothing to show for it, by the way, I dont care how lame you guys are in Canada its spelled “favor”, tried typing it like you did and got a red squiggly line underneath it.

Yeah, but you have to actually see that the team lost money, as much as they make a year you also have to see how much they made the team, T-shirts, hats, balls, bats, pictures, appearances, the fact that you know of the team because of said player, they manufacture money for the team as much as they get paid by such teams, only team in the history of baseball who couldn’t afford their player was the Texas Rangers, and thats because they had a guy with a 6 year old mentality running the helm.

Tomato, Tomahto. Favor, Favour. American, Canadian. There is more to this world than the American way you know. You may not like the metric system either, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. As far as I’m concerned it’s Favour, Colour, and any other words where the letter “U” is added. just because you don’t like it doesnt mean you’re right… Oh and by the way, while we are on the subject; it’s “CHEQUE” not “CHECK”…

That’s because you’re obviously using the American English Dictionary. Try using the Canadian or British Dictionaries. Of course if you’re this ignorant you probably don’t realize the different dictionaries even exist.

Actually, I think you need to do a bit of research before you make yourself look like an idiot. The Blue Jays are owned by Rogers Communications Inc. 12.2 billion in sales annually. Over 18 billion dollars in assets and 4 billion in free cash flow.
Ted Rogers at the time of his death was worth close to 8 billion alone. Halladay was traded not because they couldn’t afford him, in fact they offered him an extension and he turned it down. They traded him because the rebuild was coming. Everyone seems to forget that it wasnt that many years ago that the Jays had the highest payroll in baseball.

just speaking my mind, stats are useful for sure but are relied on too much in my opinion. i think about 9 times out of 10 the average ballfan doesnt need WAR or any other stat to tell them whether a player giving equal value for their salary, or to project what a certain FA should receive

AL Champs 1946, AL Champs 1967, AL Champs 1975, AL Champs 1986, In the playoffs 1988, 1990, 1995, 1998, 1999, 2003, 2005, 2008 plus the two World Series. And even since the Blue Jays were last in the playoffs the Red Sox have been in the playoffs 8 times more than the Jays. So I guess they have won something in the last 86 years.

86 years correct. But 2, TWO! World Series in the last 6 years. 5, FIVE playoff appearances in the last 7 years. The Red Sox were plagued with bad ownership and poor GMs. That no longer exists. So, your taunting is a bit outdated.