And you have helped me define mine, and understand yours, you want someone else to pay for something that you ought to be a personal responsibility – many liberals do. And you hate religion. Understood. We'll just see what they supreme court rules.

The CHAUSA itself wants the public to pay for them via it's 501 status and government grants, yet it wants to deny certain health coverage to women and their families....who wants who to pay for what? If the Bishop is truly adamant he will voluntarily revoke the 501 tax-exempt status and then us Gentiles, at least and maybe, will be thrust from the conversation. Pay your own way and then you can take responsibility for your own views...

Exactly, pay for you own insurance premiums and you can take responsibility for your own views.

Believe me they pay their own way. Because they accept funds paying for a service the provide to an individual in no ways means they don't "pay their own way" By that definition no hospital pays its way. And exempla heathcare that is run by the sisters of charity, more than 10 % of their 2009 budget consisted of subsidized or uncompensated health care. 111 Million. They only got http://www.exempla.org/documents/SYSTEM ... efit10.pdf

Government share of the subsidized care only consisted of 29 million, but oh they get to call all the shots.

And not to be a word-nazi, but gentiles are non jews, not non-christians.

That is just it Michael, I am not going to simply "believe you"

Believe me they pay their own way

as it has become painfully obvious during this discussion thread that you had/have no idea about how the 501's operate...

Stacey you are tedious.

501c3 are not all the same nor do they operate the same.

Which to me, and most people is painfully obvious.

Whatever Michael, we are talking about the 501's that deal with health care and are religion based.....

Then don't just refer to them blanketly as 501c3s.

For someone that respects words, they do mean things.

Have a good night as you are to tedious to continue with, and you and I will never come to any agreement.

I believe in the first ammendment, and you think it doesn't apply. Only the supreme court can resolve our disagreement, one of us will be vindicated, while the other will be grumpy.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure."Senator Obama

And you have helped me define mine, and understand yours, you want someone else to pay for something that you ought to be a personal responsibility – many liberals do. And you hate religion. Understood. We'll just see what they supreme court rules.

The CHAUSA itself wants the public to pay for them via it's 501 status and government grants, yet it wants to deny certain health coverage to women and their families....who wants who to pay for what? If the Bishop is truly adamant he will voluntarily revoke the 501 tax-exempt status and then us Gentiles, at least and maybe, will be thrust from the conversation. Pay your own way and then you can take responsibility for your own views...

Exactly, pay for you own insurance premiums and you can take responsibility for your own views.

Believe me they pay their own way. Because they accept funds paying for a service the provide to an individual in no ways means they don't "pay their own way" By that definition no hospital pays its way. And exempla heathcare that is run by the sisters of charity, more than 10 % of their 2009 budget consisted of subsidized or uncompensated health care. 111 Million. They only got http://www.exempla.org/documents/SYSTEM ... efit10.pdf

Government share of the subsidized care only consisted of 29 million, but oh they get to call all the shots.

And not to be a word-nazi, but gentiles are non jews, not non-christians.

That is just it Michael, I am not going to simply "believe you"

Believe me they pay their own way

as it has become painfully obvious during this discussion thread that you had/have no idea about how the 501's operate...

Stacey you are tedious.

501c3 are not all the same nor do they operate the same.

Which to me, and most people is painfully obvious.

Whatever Michael, we are talking about the 501's that deal with health care and are religion based.....

Then don't just refer to them blanketly as 501c3s.

For someone that respects words, they do mean things.

Have a good night as you are to tedious to continue with, and you and I will never come to any agreement.

I believe in the first ammendment, and you think it doesn't apply. Only the supreme court can resolve our disagreement, one of us will be vindicated, while the other will be grumpy.

Have a good night, my friend. I feel strongly in the First Amendment myself, which is one reason why I know a little something something about 501 organizations...especially the Church-owned ones that are dominated by white males who think they can institute some kind of 1500's masculine paradise...ain't gonna happen. I bet you are putting a lot of prayer and thought towards the same Supreme Court that said a corporation is a Person, and has the same rights...I will respect whatever decision they come to but will not necessarily agree.

as for blankety 501's, heck, I just got tired of typing (3)(c) and figured you would know the difference.....

A major factor in all religions can be described by the tenet Tikkun Olam

I priced a few different types of birth control including hormonal birth control at the local walmart and the local grocery store. The average price is about $10 a month without insurance. So is $10 a month prohibitively expensive or is it not? If it were $30 a month would that make it prohibitively expensive. How about $50? None of those figures would have been 'prohibitively' expensive for most of the people that I know.

So please tell me again that you think $10 is prohibitively expensive.

Barron wrote:They are veering waaaayyyy off course from what their constituents require of them. What our insurance companies pay for us premium-paying customers is none of their darn business. They need to find real jobs and get out of the way. Nobody needs THEIR morals legislated. And they would be the first to complain about government getting in people's business. Sickening hypocrisy.

So then you agree that the government should not FORCE someone to carry insurance coverage that they dont want?

Thats a hypothetical question since you have already stated repeatedly over the boards that you think exactly that. You think government should force everyone to have the same coverages and pay for everything as a single payer in general.

I priced a few different types of birth control including hormonal birth control at the local walmart and the local grocery store. The average price is about $10 a month without insurance. So is $10 a month prohibitively expensive or is it not? If it were $30 a month would that make it prohibitively expensive. How about $50? None of those figures would have been 'prohibitively' expensive for most of the people that I know.

So please tell me again that you think $10 is prohibitively expensive.

I would like to give you more respect than "you are making that up" but since I do not know you, that is my first impression. Please describe exactly the types of birth control you priced and how many stores you went to in 4? hours to arrive at your average...and if at any time you feel you are operating above your paygrade, I will definitely agree.

A major factor in all religions can be described by the tenet Tikkun Olam

I priced a few different types of birth control including hormonal birth control at the local walmart and the local grocery store. The average price is about $10 a month without insurance. So is $10 a month prohibitively expensive or is it not? If it were $30 a month would that make it prohibitively expensive. How about $50? None of those figures would have been 'prohibitively' expensive for most of the people that I know.

So please tell me again that you think $10 is prohibitively expensive.

I would like to give you more respect than "you are making that up" but since I do not know you, that is my first impression. Please describe exactly the types of birth control you priced and how many stores you went to in 4? hours to arrive at your average...and if at any time you feel you are operating above your paygrade here, I will definitely agree.

This is what planned parenthood says

Take a pill each day to prevent pregnancy Safe, effective, and convenient Easy to get with a prescription Cost about $15–$50 each month

I priced a few different types of birth control including hormonal birth control at the local walmart and the local grocery store. The average price is about $10 a month without insurance. So is $10 a month prohibitively expensive or is it not? If it were $30 a month would that make it prohibitively expensive. How about $50? None of those figures would have been 'prohibitively' expensive for most of the people that I know.

So please tell me again that you think $10 is prohibitively expensive.

I would like to give you more respect than "you are making that up" but since I do not know you, that is my first impression. Please describe exactly the types of birth control you priced and how many stores you went to in 4? hours to arrive at your average...and if at any time you feel you are operating above your paygrade here, I will definitely agree.

Walmart - Safeway - King Soopers

Condoms anywhere from a 12 pack to a 36 count pack available average for 30 condoms $8.95. (Brands Lifestyles, Trojan, Durex)Spermicidal gel 1-4 pack tubes recomended for use with other methods and or diaphrams (which I know cost more than $200 because of fitting costs etc) $7.25 at recomended usage amount for 30 uses (which I can pretty much guarantee is less than what just about everyone is likely to use).Generic BC pills 9.99 without insurance $4 with at Walmart 11.99 and $5 at King Soopers and 9.99 and $8 at Safeway.Nuvaring without insurance Walmart $22.50 not available at the other two places I visited

I didnt include the cost of something like a depo provera shot or implants or IUD's of various types but as I recall the last time I checked Depo Provera shots were running around $45 per 3 month shot and $75 for a 6 month shot ($15 to $12.5) per injection though that didnt include the cost of a visit which depending on the location could be anything from free come get your shot to several hundred dollars.

I think that covers a fairly wide range of options. I don't think many would choose some of the ways offered. Hell I had a GF that absolutely abhorred shots and would be more likely to shoot the doctor if he offered her a shot like depo... On the otherhand I also know a couple of girls with an alergy to latex so that would eliminate some options for them too.

Prices did go up for prescriptions that required different mixes of hormones and a prescription was required for a Nuvaring (though the pharmacist there seemed to be irritated that I was there anyway).

Sadly the REASON I went to all these places was to get dogfood for my pups and none of the 3 stores had it so I drove an extra 5 miles to the petsmart to get the same food there for $5 more than I could have at those closer locations.

I priced a few different types of birth control including hormonal birth control at the local walmart and the local grocery store. The average price is about $10 a month without insurance. So is $10 a month prohibitively expensive or is it not? If it were $30 a month would that make it prohibitively expensive. How about $50? None of those figures would have been 'prohibitively' expensive for most of the people that I know.

So please tell me again that you think $10 is prohibitively expensive.

I would like to give you more respect than "you are making that up" but since I do not know you, that is my first impression. Please describe exactly the types of birth control you priced and how many stores you went to in 4? hours to arrive at your average...and if at any time you feel you are operating above your paygrade here, I will definitely agree.

This is what planned parenthood says

Take a pill each day to prevent pregnancy Safe, effective, and convenient Easy to get with a prescription Cost about $15–$50 each month

This is exactly why those on the right don't see it as prohibitively expensive.

[/quote]

Once again you are demonstrating two-dimensional thought and pretending it is a viewpoint of "how it is"....this is why I mentioned that you had "streamlined" birthcontrol into pure condom use..at least now, Michael, you have graduated to recognizing that there are birth control methods besides condoms, and that the pill might work better for some women compared to condoms. Do you know why?

A major factor in all religions can be described by the tenet Tikkun Olam

I priced a few different types of birth control including hormonal birth control at the local walmart and the local grocery store. The average price is about $10 a month without insurance. So is $10 a month prohibitively expensive or is it not? If it were $30 a month would that make it prohibitively expensive. How about $50? None of those figures would have been 'prohibitively' expensive for most of the people that I know.

So please tell me again that you think $10 is prohibitively expensive.

I would like to give you more respect than "you are making that up" but since I do not know you, that is my first impression. Please describe exactly the types of birth control you priced and how many stores you went to in 4? hours to arrive at your average...and if at any time you feel you are operating above your paygrade here, I will definitely agree.

Walmart - Safeway - King Soopers

Condoms anywhere from a 12 pack to a 36 count pack available average for 30 condoms $8.95. (Brands Lifestyles, Trojan, Durex)Spermicidal gel 1-4 pack tubes recomended for use with other methods and or diaphrams (which I know cost more than $200 because of fitting costs etc) $7.25 at recomended usage amount for 30 uses (which I can pretty much guarantee is less than what just about everyone is likely to use).Generic BC pills 9.99 without insurance $4 with at Walmart 11.99 and $5 at King Soopers and 9.99 and $8 at Safeway.Nuvaring without insurance Walmart $22.50 not available at the other two places I visited

I didnt include the cost of something like a depo provera shot or implants or IUD's of various types but as I recall the last time I checked Depo Provera shots were running around $45 per 3 month shot and $75 for a 6 month shot ($15 to $12.5) per injection though that didnt include the cost of a visit which depending on the location could be anything from free come get your shot to several hundred dollars.

I think that covers a fairly wide range of options. I don't think many would choose some of the ways offered. Hell I had a GF that absolutely abhorred shots and would be more likely to shoot the doctor if he offered her a shot like depo... On the otherhand I also know a couple of girls with an alergy to latex so that would eliminate some options for them too.

Prices did go up for prescriptions that required different mixes of hormones and a prescription was required for a Nuvaring (though the pharmacist there seemed to be irritated that I was there anyway).

Sadly the REASON I went to all these places was to get dogfood for my pups and none of the 3 stores had it so I drove an extra 5 miles to the petsmart to get the same food there for $5 more than I could have at those closer locations.

Nothing sad about it; you are aware that there are different options for women for some reason, although some of the costs, such as NuvaRing, that you have quoted are laughable...at least now I do not think you are, necessarily, Michael O's shill...thanks for sharing Josh

A major factor in all religions can be described by the tenet Tikkun Olam

staceybrown wrote:Once again you are demonstrating two-dimensional thought and pretending it is a viewpoint of "how it is"....this is why I mentioned that you had "streamlined" birthcontrol into pure condom use..at least now, Michael, you have graduated to recognizing that there are birth control methods besides condoms, and that the pill might work better for some women compared to condoms. Do you know why?

Excuse me? Two dimensional thinking? You think that the only way to get the pill is to have your insurance be mandated to cover it and have relgious instiutions be forced to provided. I call that One dimensional. I guess I got ya beat!

I haven't graduated to anything. Obviously I recognized birth control. Thank you Capt Obvious. The Catholic Church isn't complaining about having to fill prescriptions for Condoms, and if they were the complaints would still be equally valid.

My point and Josh's point which is quite true is, that there are a very large variety of contraception options available at affordable prices.

So affordable that it was ridiculous to mandate it be covered. And INSANE to be having this public debate on whether religious institutions should be mandated to violate their constitutional beliefs for something so inexpensive.

Insurance was designed to pool risk and cover unexpected medical costs. Routine medical should be out of pocket and unexpected/catastrophic situations should use insurance. The desire for insurance to be healthcare is why we are spending so much money on insurance.treating the condition of "not-desiring to be pregnant" isn't a unexpected medical procedure.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure."Senator Obama

I priced a few different types of birth control including hormonal birth control at the local walmart and the local grocery store. The average price is about $10 a month without insurance. So is $10 a month prohibitively expensive or is it not? If it were $30 a month would that make it prohibitively expensive. How about $50? None of those figures would have been 'prohibitively' expensive for most of the people that I know.

So please tell me again that you think $10 is prohibitively expensive.

I would like to give you more respect than "you are making that up" but since I do not know you, that is my first impression. Please describe exactly the types of birth control you priced and how many stores you went to in 4? hours to arrive at your average...and if at any time you feel you are operating above your paygrade here, I will definitely agree.

This is what planned parenthood says

Take a pill each day to prevent pregnancy Safe, effective, and convenient Easy to get with a prescription Cost about $15–$50 each month

This is exactly why those on the right don't see it as prohibitively expensive.

Once again you are demonstrating two-dimensional thought and pretending it is a viewpoint of "how it is"....this is why I mentioned that you had "streamlined" birthcontrol into pure condom use..at least now, Michael, you have graduated to recognizing that there are birth control methods besides condoms, and that the pill might work better for some women compared to condoms. Do you know why?

Excuse me? I haven't graduated to anything. Obviously I recognized birth control. Thank you Capt Obvious. The Catholic Church isn't complaining about having to fill prescriptions for Condoms, and if they were the complaints would still be equally valid.

My point and Josh's point which is quite true is, that there are a very large variety of contraception options available at affordable prices.

So affordable that it was ridiculous to mandate it be covered. And INSANE to be having this public debate on whether religious institutions should be mandated to violate their constitutional beliefs for something so inexpensive.

Insurance was designed to pool risk and cover unexpected medical costs. Routine medical should be out of pocket and unexpected/catastrophic situations should use insurance. The desire for insurance to be healthcare is why we are spending so much money on insurance.treating the condition of "not-desiring to be pregnant" isn't a unexpected medical procedure.[/quote]

Please list all of the birth control options you consider "affordable"...you really should stop, anytime. You are exposing yourself quite badly, my friend, now matter how much your wife may be cheering you on.

A major factor in all religions can be described by the tenet Tikkun Olam

Please list all of the birth control options you consider "affordable"...you really should stop, anytime. You are exposing yourself quite badly, my friend, now matter how much your wife is cheering you on.

ROFLMAO....Oh that is funny, I am exposing my self badly????

I think Josh gave a perfectly fine list. Are there more, yes. Are some more expensive? Sure. Are there affordable options? Absolutley.

My wife? If my wife was here and I was exposing myself, I would be talking to you - no offense.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure."Senator Obama

staceybrown wrote:And there we have it: the breakdown of logic and the outpouring of emotions. tsk tsk. That is how you spot a true liberal, Michael O

My question once again: why are there different birth control options available for women?

You have penchant for saying things that make absolutely little sense.

Please tell me where my logic has broken down. Josh has shown to you that there are affordable contraception options. Is this false? OF course not. The fact that there are a myriad of affordable contraception options negates the claim that an insurance company MUST pay for it, and a religious institution must provide it.

Your question is not germaine. But if you answer these assertions, I'll play along.

Tell me where my logic has broke down,Tell me where I am exposing myself,Explain how I Don't know how a 5013c is run, I mean religiously affliated institutions, which is what we are talking about,

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure."Senator Obama

staceybrown wrote:And there we have it: the breakdown of logic and the outpouring of emotions. tsk tsk. That is how you spot a true liberal, Michael O

My question once again: why are there different birth control options available for women? It is an easy enough answer unless you have an agenda to push....

You have penchant for saying things that make absolutely little sense.

Please tell me where my logic has broken down. Josh has shown to you that there are affordable contraception options. Is this false? OF course not. The fact that there are a myriad of affordable contraception options negates the claim that an insurance company MUST pay for it, and a religious institution must provide it.

Your question is not germaine. But if you answer these assertions, I'll play along.

Tell me where my logic has broke down,Tell me where I am exposing myself,Explain how I Don't know how a 5013c is run, I mean religiously affliated institutions, which is what we are talking about,

If I had a penchant for not making sense,

Last edited by staceybrown on April 30th, 2012, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A major factor in all religions can be described by the tenet Tikkun Olam

then why would you be talking to me? As for your offer, Michael O, no thanks. Simply go over the dialogue we have shared and try to make some sense out of it. If you have something new let me hear it, but to now go over everything we have talked about is ad nauseum...unless you are actually making a point.

A major factor in all religions can be described by the tenet Tikkun Olam

staceybrown wrote:then why would you be talking to me? As for your offer, Michael O, no thanks. Simply go over the dialogue we have shared and try to make some sense out of it. If you have something new let me hear it, but to now go over everything we have talked about is ad nauseum...unless you are actually making a point.

??? non-seqitur. What do you mean Why am I talking to you? Go back and review the dialogue for that answer.

I have been following along quite nicely I can't make sense of many of your assertions.

I find my logic to be perfectly fine. I am not exposing myself nor have you shown how I have.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure."Senator Obama

staceybrown wrote:Nothing sad about it; you are aware that there are different options for women for some reason, although some of the costs, such as NuvaRing, that you have quoted are laughable...at least now I do not think you are, necessarily, Michael O's shill...thanks for sharing Josh

I had heard that it was more like $40 but I went with the price I was quoted. Which of the prices quoted above are prohibitive? Each of them is less than the cost of going to a movie 1 time a month. Heck its less than going to McDonalds or Burger King twice in a month.

Even if you double those prices I think most everyone could find a way to fit it in.