A friend of mine asked me if I would show their mare that had 4 months of western pleasure training. I said sure.

So I went out to ride her and I noticed right of the bat that she did not have a western pleasure carriage at all. She has a very athletic build and her head does not sit in a position conducive to a western pleasure horse. Her neck is a little short and her back is a little long and she lacks that nice top line that a western pleasure horse has.

Issues: at a walk her head is just slightly up, but not bad. If you ask her to speed up her head pops up "even just to extend the walk". If you bump her and ask her to lift her belly she puts her nose in the air. If you put draw reins on her she will tuck her nose but still have her head up and you you have to constantly stay on the bit "I did not use draw reins trainer did". Martingale was that same way, it did not bring the head down only got her behind the vertical with an over flexed neck. If you try to just use reins she will tuck her nose and back up. So she will not go on the bit nor will she give to the bit and she don't carry her head level. All of this after 4 months of western pleasure training. I understand that her body is not really good for western pleasure, but she still should give to pressure. Where should I start?

Oh, well in that case the only solution I could offer is that you move her through the bit. Keep her going on an extended gait but apply bit pressure in equal intervals. It might make her push forward with her hind end helping her to elevate her back which would bring her head down into a more appropriate headset.

I am going to try that. I think four months of training forks is what caused this crazy flexed neck. I always think of training forks as one of the last measures, but he used them from day one. I guess it got so bad that he had to bring in and pay another trainer to help him and by that time they were using German martingales and tie downs and all kinds of tools.

Your problem is in the back... not the neck. Like you mentioned... her topline isn't developed very well.

You might try some flexes and circles. First at the walk, of course. Turn a small circle, pulsing your inside leg, asking her to bend her back. She will want to lift her back and drop her neck if she's doing them right, and at that point you'll want to give softness back to her. Keep her on the circle, but let your whole body feel comfy to her.

Eventually once you got her giving her back when circling to both sides, you'll be able to introduce a signal that asks to drop the head and neck and lift the back.

Keep riding those circles, and let your leg not just keep her out on the circle and giving her nose, but also lift her back.
Once you get lots of softness that way, you can try going straight a step or two. That will involve a little bit of outside rein to get her to move in the straight line, plus that one inside leg asking for the flexed back still.
If you do your work right, I imagine she will respond to that request w/ a dropped neck and an overflexed poll. At this point I imagine you won't gripe about a little overflexing, seeins it's step in the right direction.

But from there you can work out a signal for her to lift her back and drop her neck carriage.

My suggestion is the identical concept to Julia's...and sorry to those of you seeing me suggesting it all over the forum, but it is the single most useful (multi-purpose) exercise that I have learned.

Try doing serpentines with her. Keep her in the turn until she begins to bring her head into position, the release and let her go straight for a bit as a reward. As she gets better at this, she will naturally build top line, and begin to self carry. Anyway, here is a link to the video I posted in another thread. http://www.horseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7552

I had similar issues with my stallion about a year ago (he was coming 5 then), and within a month, I saw major improvement, and today, he is consistent at the walk and jog, and his lope is getting much more consistent. You should really warm up with serpentines for about 20 minutes every time you ride, but I slacked on it a bit for quite a while. When I started timing myself again the other day, I noticed a 100% between start and minute 20. :)

Paintlover has a great exercise, similar to many of mine...
"Try doing serpentines with her. Keep her in the turn until she begins to bring her head into position, the release and let her go straight for a bit as a reward."
This might not be quite clear... Ride the serpentine, in each turn of the serp, ask her to give her head. Stay in the turn, meaning if she don't give her head continue the turn into a circle, until she gives.
Then go straight, relaxed and loose, and then try it going the other way. Again, stay in each turn of the serp... make a circle out of the turn if you need to, ride that circle as long as it takes, then go straight to continue the serp pattern.

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