I just received my new Athearn Challenger
with Tsumani sound. I was eagerly anticipating this due to all the praise
I've heard for Tsunami. Well the result is disappointing in the extreem.
My MDC challenger sounds loads better! Here are the faults in my
book.

1. Whistle sound in so low to be almost inaudible when the
engine is moving. There is no option to change the whistle
sound.

2. Chuff rate seems way to high at speed the chuffs blend
almost completely together. There is no option to adjust the chuff
rate.

3. There is no volume control on the sound just "on" or
"mute".

4. Only about 9 or 10 of the functions are used. No
functions above 12 are programmed.

All in all I'm thinking about
returning this one and just keeping my MDC equipted Challengers. Speed
control is improved but the sound is way worse than either my older
Challengers of my Walthers 2-8-8-2. Maybe I got a lemon? Anyone else have
one of the new ones?

Thanks,

Kevin

Replies:

Reply author:
wcfn100Replied on: 04/19/2010 22:10:13Message:

So in the manual there is no listing for the
following?

CV 128 - Master Volume

CV 116 - Auto Exhaust Rate
(Chuff)

CV 129 - Whistle Volume

As for the functions, yeah
it looks like they only use 12 functions so no farm animals I
guess.

Jason

Reply author:
GN4EVERReplied on: 04/19/2010 22:27:10Message:

Actually, no, these is no mention of those CV's. There is a
mention of a non-existant "User's Guide" and a downloadable technical
reference. The number of Functions are as follows:

I ran into similar situation with decoder manual of my
Walthers/LifeLike Mallet. It has a full-blown QSI decoder factory
installed but the manual included with the engine is very sparse. There
are links pointing to a fuller manual but I just went directly to QSI
website and downloaded the full manual. Now I have about 6 months worth of
bathroom reading (this thing is a size of a small phone book) and I also
found out that this decoder is capable of things I'll never need!

I agree, go to Soundtraxx's website and download the full
manual.

Reply author:
GN4EVERReplied on: 04/20/2010 01:11:15Message:

Well I downloaded the manual and I'll see if I can tweek it
into shape. I did a quick test and boosted the whistle to max volume and
it helps a little bit. Problem is that the whistle sounds just like
static. Making it louder is just louder static. I'm hoping that they did
include a different whistle I can choose.

Kevin

Reply author:
jdcolomboReplied on: 04/20/2010 08:29:59Message:

You can cycle through the available whistles via CV115 (from
0 to 7). Also, there are two separate volume controls. There is a master
volume control in CV 128, and then individual volume controls for the
individual main sounds (e.g., bell, whistle, chuff, air pump, boiler,
steam hiss, etc.). I set the master volume at almost maximum (250) and
then adjust the individual volume controls to my liking. On a real steam
engine, for example, the bell is barely audible over the chuffs, but the
whistle should be much louder than the chuffs.

Finally, if this is
a full Tsunami like the after-market versions, there is a sound equalizer
you can (and should) use to further fine-tune the sound. You set CV 153 to
7, which enables the user control for the EQ, and then play with the
values in CVs 154-160. A good starting point would be the
following:

You can
use ops mode programming (programming on the main) to vary these values
while the engine is running to get the sound most pleasing to your ears.
Use the chuffs to set CV's 156-158; the bell and whistle to set CV's
159-160 (they have more treble energy than the chuffs).

I don't
know what kind of speaker Athearn has in the new Challengers, but the
Tsunami has so many individual sound controls that I would be absolutely
shocked if you can't set it to your liking (and in a way that completely
blows away the sound of the MRC).

As for the chuff timing, that
can be set via CV116. Again, use ops mode programming to vary the values
and watch the drivers for optimum chuff timing. I don't know if this comes
from the factory in articulated sound mode (dual chuffs) or standard rod
mode (single chuff); but you can change this in CV112. Set CV112 to 1
(single chuff mode, dual airpumps) and then adjust the chuff timing in
CV116. Now if you want to enable articulated mode (dual chuffs, where you
get the "cha-CHA" sound of an articulated at low speed), change CV112 back
to 61 (I think - you'll need to look at the owners manual for the values).
You can even change CV112 to a value that varies the dual chuffs so that
they go in and out of sync like you would hear on most real articulateds
(though I have to say that I really don't like the articulated sound of
the Tsunami at speed; it sounds too much like a gatling gun rather than a
real articulated, and I have left my Tsunamis in simple mode - CV112 at
1).

And Athearn should have included all this information with the
engine, or at least told the customer to go to Soundtraxx's web site for
the full manual. Not doing so is a major customer service
blunder.

This has improved things alot. I now get a "Whooo
Whooo" for the whistle though I can't get the volume up to where I would
like it. I just may have to turn down the chuff volume a bit more. As I
said before only 3 of the 7 whistles are available (3 through 7 all sound
like 0). I set the chuff type to single, dual air pump (CV112 = 1). Though
articulated sounds good at low speed, at track speed the chuffs blend
together too much. I'm liking this better. Thanks to all for your
help.

I can't believe Ahtearn did not put some more work into the
default settings!

Kevin

Reply author:
peteskiReplied on: 04/20/2010 17:46:33Message:

Kevin,have you counted number of chuffs per wheel
revolution when it is going slowly enough to count? You should hear 4 on a
normal loco or up to 8 on simple articulated one (like your Challenger). I
suspect that the chuff rate is correct but you are running your loco *way*
too fast. We in N scale have no true sense of scale speed. What looks to
our eye like 50SMPH is probably closer to 100SMPH. Chuffs will blend at
100SMPH!

I have noticed that running an N scale train while looking
through a loco-installed train camera forces us to drive it at much more
realistic speed. What looks like about 50SMPH through the camera view
seems like crawling when the train is viewed directly. Similarly what
looks like "reasonable" speed when the train is viewed directly appears to
be a crazy 150SMPH roller-coaster ride when viewed through the camera.

Reply author:
C855BReplied on: 04/20/2010 18:28:55Message:

Yes - sort of what Pete said, from a different approach. At
60 MPH, the Challenger's 69" drivers are turning at 292 RPM, which works
out to 39 chuffs per second. You will hear that as a steady "roar" of
chuffs. Having paced the real thing at speed on multiple occasions, yes,
it sounds like that.

Reply author:
GN4EVERReplied on: 04/20/2010 20:16:37Message:

I don't think that I'm running it too fast. The chuffs blend
together using the articulated setting at about 45 - 50% throttle. I've
seen and heard 3985 doing about 70 mph and there is definately a "roar" of
chuffs but it is more a very rapid stacatto than a constant "whoosh" which
was what I was getting on the articulated setting on the Tsnami. What I'm
thinking is missing due to the small speaker is the sharp "cracks" of the
exhaust so it sounds all blended in. As John pointed out earler, setting
to single setting actually sounds better at speed.

Edit: I timed
my locomotive at 50% throttle it runs at about 65
mph.

thanks,

Kevin

Reply author:
turbinemanReplied on: 04/20/2010
22:49:34Message:

Having heard Tsunami sound systems on various N scale steam
and diesel locomotives...and also owning a Athearn Challenger with the MRC
sound system...I can't imagine anyone thinking the MRC system was superior
to the Tsunami. The MRC sound is CRAP! The chuff sounds like static...the
whistle isn't even close to the prototype...nor is the bell...and there is
no way to change them. One of my next projects is to change my Challenger
over to a Tsunami system, so I won't feel embarresed to run it at the club
shows.

Reply author:
peteskiReplied on: 04/20/2010 23:27:06Message:

I would say that if I had to pick I would use QSI decoder
instead of Tsunami. That is what I'm planning on installing in my AC-12. I
fell in love with it when I bought Walthers Mallet.

Reply author:
GN4EVERReplied on: 04/21/2010 02:00:47Message:

I will admit the chuff volume on my MRC Challengers leaves a
bit to be desired after listening to my QSI in the Walther's Mallet. The
QSI on the Mallet is the gold standard in my book. Though the chuff volume
on the MRC decoder is a bit anemic the rate and "pulse" sound just right.
Even at full speed I can pick out the beat of the exhausts. There are a
number of different whistles on the MRC decoder, you can cycle through
them with F8. You can improve the volume on the MRC decoder by cycling F12
to change the volume. After futzing with the Tsunami deocoder on the
Challenger for most of the day I've got it where I do think its better
than the MRC (Except for the whistle...). Perhaps a NON ATHEARN Tsunami is
the way to go for the Challengers?

thanks,

Kevin

Reply author:
peteskiReplied on: 04/21/2010 02:14:16Message:

Why would you replace Athearn's Tsunami decoder with another
Tsunami decoder? If you are spending that much extra money then why not
just install a QSI decoder?

Too bad that Athearn is not offering
their Challenger and Big Boy without DCC decoders. That way some picky
modelers (like you and me) could install our own decoders. I'm still
*VERY* happy that Athearn dumped the MRC decoders but ....

Reply author:
GN4EVERReplied on: 04/21/2010 12:59:39Message:

I'm not sure that replacing the Athearn Tsunami with a Heavy
Steam mini-Tsunami would be the way to go unless the Athearn Tsunami is
too stripped down. I know it is somewhat stripped down as it only has 3 of
the 7 whistles in it. Most of the other programming appears to be there
from what I've seen. I think I was refering more to replacing the MRC
decoder. You should shortly be able to purchase the Athearn Tsunami
decoder but it might be better to get the mini-Tsunami Heavy Steam decoder
or a QSI decoder instead.

thanks,

Kevin

Reply author:
SharkmanReplied on: 04/21/2010 13:29:23Message:

I have one of the Micro Tsunami's in a LL Berk, and the
sound blows away the MRC in my Challenger. Perhaps you have a questionable
decoder. I do not know about the decoder that was OEM, but I am really
happy with the Tsunami. I have not had the chance to get a Walthers Mallet
with QSI, but I will have see if I can get my hands on one and see how
weell they run and how well they sound.

David

Reply author: jim
princeReplied on: 04/21/2010 13:46:12Message:

David,

The Y3 from Walthers is nothing short of
awesome. Like your Berk, it makes the MRC in the Challenger sound like
tin.

Reply author:
turbinemanReplied on: 04/21/2010
19:00:15Message:

Just curious about this QSI outfit, everyone is talking
about. Is this a new company? Do they have much of a track record and
selection of products? Are these just sound decoders...or sound/motor
decoders...If they are just a sound decoder...how do they work with
Digitrax? thanks

Excerpt from they webpage: QSI is a leader in premium sound
& train control devices and has sold over one million sound systems
world-wide. QSI's Quantum systems are known for their realism,
reliability, and ease of use.

Reply author:
tomgschillingReplied on: 04/21/2010
19:08:54Message:

I agree about the QSI in the Y3 Mallet. It is outstanding
but I also agree with John Colombo...being able to use the equalizer in
the Tsunami is a great advantage. You can't generate a lot of badly needed
bass but that's just the nature of the small N scale beast. The equalizer
lets you optimize the sound to be the best it can be.

It sounds to
me like maybe Athearn went on the cheap with the speaker and/or perhaps an
enclosure. If volume settings are a problem when using a Tsunami, you
gotta believe the culprit is the speaker or its installation. ...Tom

Reply author:
peteskiReplied on: 04/21/2010 19:13:15Message:

Tom, N scale speakers are tweeter-sized. Tryin to get more
bass from them (even with equalization) is mostly futile. Best way to get
more bass from our tiny speakers is by placing them in air tight
enclosures. I'll take QSI's sound fidelity over Tsunami's equalizer any
day.

Reply author:
BryanHowiesonReplied on: 04/24/2010
08:14:41Message:

Hello from Australia,

I have just received my
Challenger too and I was also very disappointed with the sound for the
same reasons as Kevin. I have made the various changes he suggested to the
CVs which has helped a bit. However, I don't seem to be able to get any
brake squeal and I'm wondering if I am just doing something wrong or I
have a bad decoder (all the other sounds seem to work okay). Nothing
happens when I press F5 and I have even tried setting brake squeal to come
on automatically as per the Soundtraxx manual with no success (if I brake
using my Digitrax Zephyr the sound sort of drops off and a slight broken
strangle sound can be heard - otherwise no brake sound at any time). I
have set CV 139 (brake squeal volume) to 200 (it was 128) and CV 196
(brake sensitivity) to 8 (it was 3).

Is there anything I'm doing
wrong - this is my first Soundtraxx decoder (I've got one ESU loksound and
a few MRC sound decoders and all of these make a brake squeal without
problems).

Thanks for any
assistance.

Cheers,

Bryan.

Reply author: Doug
GoshaReplied on: 04/24/2010 10:56:55Message:

quote:
Originally posted by peteski

Tom, N scale speakers are
tweeter-sized. Tryin to get more bass from them (even with equalization)
is mostly futile. Best way to get more bass from our tiny speakers is by
placing them in air tight enclosures. I'll take QSI's sound fidelity
over Tsunami's equalizer any day.

Interesting that there is a company named
QSI in model railroading because, back in the quadraphonic days, there was
a company called QSI that made chips for some of the CD-4
demodulators.

Lou Dorren, who had that company, is also an N scale
model train enthusiast.

Doug

Reply author:
superturbine3Replied on: 04/24/2010
11:18:25Message:

I own at least 20 of the MRC equipped Big Boys and
Challengers and am very happy. With Tsunami Challenger I am very
disappointed. I have adjusted the sound which from the factory is awful
and now have it somewhat satisfactory...These decoders are not the
same as a 750, at least not the settings.

MY MAIN PROBLEM IS THE
TENDENCY TO STALL OVER SWITCHES SINCE THE TSUNAMI REQUIRES MORE POWER!!