Observer.....The problem is the government substidized environmenalist business...sold them the wrong turbine only to make Green MONEY... an "organization" can only select what the representative recomends. So this this is a Wind Genrator Company Failure......

Just another governmental boondoggle. This is just another example which proves this state has the dumbest politicians and the smartest lobbyists and special interest groups, in years to come it will be proven that wind turbines will be of little if any benefit at all, they will only benefit the companies that are selling them as their bottom line keeps getting better, and the tax payers just keep getting shafted.

It is discouraging to read all the politically-motivated rants on this forum. The problem is NOT the 'enviros','liberals' or 'renewables'. It is that the organization selected the wrong turbines for this climate. Wind power DOES work, see the section about Excel's turbines functioning down to -20 degrees.Thanks to JKS for posting the only relevant post on this board.

Reread mine then and try to configure it to your political leanings. Wind power does work, when the wind is actually blowing, so why is this a sad story? The public doled out tons of money for energy that is still whipping by these 'refurbished' windmills. Minnesota mandated renewable energy, but the plan is lost in the details, like actually having the wind turn them.

I bet Anoka, Arlington, Brownton, Buffalo, Chaska, East Grand Forks, Le Sueur, North St. Paul, Olivia, Shakopee and Winthrop were big sources or income for rainmen of the 1930's dust bowl....

So easily duped by the HOAX of "Global Warming" and "Climate Change" Eacha and every member of the city council for these cities and other cities that that have fallen for the "Green" lie should be removed from office because they definately lack insite and leadership. Same goes for State and Federal elected officials.

Cold weather is one thing but the data was available that also said you need to be up 200+ feet to get good laminar wind. MMUA bought into a scam of purchasing 20 year old used equipment. These utilities need to be sold off to a IOU who knows energy systems. Folks like XCEL can make this work.

They always talk about how great these windmills or solar panels or other renewable energy sources are going to be, yet they refuse to disclose how much energy they actually produce. They just stick with the talking point speculations of "optimal energy output" like the windmill claim in NSP and the other MMPA partner cities that they can generate enough electricity to power 110 homes...that's if they are turning at maximum power all the time. When will that ever happen! NEVER! They have yet to even spin! Windmills only spin if there is 10mph winds or greater solar panels only generate power on a clear sunny day (and can obviously only generate power during daylight hours) So how often do all these optimal conditions actually occur during a given year? How do extreme temperatures affect these energy sources like we see here in MN (hot muggy summers and freezing cold winters) How much sense do these things make if you get all the facts strait and make a common sense decision on whether or not they should be constructed at such a hefty price tag.

Why don't they create a link to a web site so people can view the actual output of energy and see just how efficient these things are? It's because if people actually knew how little they did produce they would never be constructed because they are such a huge waste! They just rely on the words of "green energy" or "the optimal energy output" How can anyone disagree with that? Yea right, its "green" alright...green as in $417,000 green ones.

Once again these quick thinking bunny huggers blew it. Did anyone in authority ask the question about its performance in cold weather? Pointing fingers at each other will not solve the problems. I guess these are going to end up costing even more money with all of the upgrades that need to be added in order for them to work in cold weather. Just a waste of money. Thanks Al Gore.

Come on now! Can anyone really blame AlGore, the state of CA, or some french company for this boondoggle? This is a result of your local feel-good politicians. Who, have no idea of the complexity of generating electricity. In reality those politicians just like to spend other people's money.

âthe windmills were bought from Escondido, Calif.-based, enXco, a subsidiary of the French company EDF Energies Nouvelles, and have never operated under such cold conditions.âWell thatâs just great, apparently these things arenât even made in the United States! What happened to the so called âgreen economyâ and the âgreen recoveryâ that Obama and Biden are constantly preaching about and are claiming is going to be the magic fix? The taxpayers have long since been tapped out, weâve maxed out the country credit cards, now I see the money we do manage to beg, borrow or steal goes to over seas companies to supply us with these windmills that dont work and this is in addition to the trillions weâre sending to countries that hate us so we can support our energy needs because weâre too afraid to tap our own resources! Good job Democratsâ¦ just go ahead and bump up that Federal debt limit whenever you have to!!!

Wind power is a complete disaster "Denmark, the worldâs most wind-intensive nation, with more than 6,000 turbines generating 19% of its electricity, has yet to close a single fossil-fuel plant. It requires 50% more coal-generated electricity to cover wind powerâs unpredictability, and pollution and carbon dioxide emissions have risen (by 36% in 2006 alone)."

Wind farms do absolutely nothing at all to reduce our dependency on imported fuel.All they do is replace coal and natural gas, two fuels in which we are already independent. Spending untold billions to replace fuel we have lots of, while not reducing our oil costs one thin dime, is tragic stupidity.

Instead of pouring billions of dollars at wind generators why cant we invest in future technology that may even work. Current wind technology is just too inefficient. We need leadership that can be a little more objective.

âthe windmills were bought from Escondido, Calif.-based, enXco, a subsidiary of the French company EDF Energies Nouvelles, and have never operated under such cold conditions.âWell thatâs just great, apparently these things arenât even made in the United States! What happened to the so called âgreen economyâ and the âgreen recoveryâ that Obama and Biden are constantly preaching about and are claiming is going to be the magic fix? The taxpayers have long since been tapped out, weâve maxed out the country credit cards, now I see the money we do manage to beg, borrow or steal goes to over seas companies to supply us with these windmills that dont work and this is in addition to the trillions weâre sending to countries that hate us so we can support our energy needs because weâre too afraid to tap our own resources! Good job Democratsâ¦ just go ahead and bump up that Federal debt limit whenever you have to!!!

The Obama Debt Tracker -$1.7 trillion of debt in his first yearhttp://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin...The numbers are staggering to the point of being almost incomprehensible. In his first year of office from January 20, 2009 to January 2010, President Obama and the democratic Congress managed to accumulate a mind-blowing $1.7 trillion of new national debt, much of it borrowed from foreign governments. The numbers below are the date, debt held by the public, intragovernmental holdings, and total debt outstanding. Read 'em and weep folks:

Date Debt Held by the Public Intragovernmental Holdings Total Public Debt Outstanding01/20/2009 6,307,310,739,681.66 4,319,566,309,231.42 10,626,877,048,913.0801/20/2010 7,814,389,191,716.30 4,512,991,612,980.52 12,327,380,804,696.82

$1.7 trillion in one year is far and away a record, coming out to approximately $4.66 billion of new debt every single day. At this rate, the Obama administration would accumulate close to $7 trillion of new debt in just one term alone, more than the nearly $5 trillon that president Bush accumulated in eight years.

It is discouraging to read all the politically-motivated rants on this forum. The problem is NOT the 'enviros','liberals' or 'renewables'. It is that the organization selected the wrong turbines for this climate. Wind power DOES work, see the section about Excel's turbines functioning down to -20 degrees.Thanks to JKS for posting the only relevant post on this board.

Refurbished at half a million per windmill, and they don't turn.Anyone think of Mobil 1? Synthetic oil doesn't gum up at extremely cold temperatures.Good homework MMPA, now if you can start up a web site so the people who bought these monstrosities can monitor their usefulness, then we could really have some discontent.Mandated by the stateItâs like telling third graders to fully comprehend quantitative analysis.

actually synthetic will gum up at extremely cold temperatures which is why heaters are necessary. synthetic oils claim to have "pour points" down to 65 below, which is crap, they may move, but never enough to allow a turbine to roll over. so you need heaters on still days to maintain some heat in your fluids. normally once the wind comes back up the machine creates enough heat while it functions that it doesn't need them during that time.

It is discouraging to read all the politically-motivated rants on this forum. The problem is NOT the 'enviros','liberals' or 'renewables'. It is that the organization selected the wrong turbines for this climate. Wind power DOES work, see the section about Excel's turbines functioning down to -20 degrees.Thanks to JKS for posting the only relevant post on this board.

i didn't say it doesn't work, i said it's inefficient and and too costly for committees of amateurs from local governments. Xcel knows what they're doing, but even Xcel could not afford to carry the costs without lots of subsidies, which come from taxing the people of course. the point is, it ain't worth it. Wind is a supplemental source at best and not at all worth the huge subsidies. It is both pipe dream and boondoggle and very visible (read: eyesore, ugly) evidence of really bad policy. Every windmill you see is a sign of your money being wasted by politicians. We need nuclear power, we need coal and gas power. We do not need wind power.

Derick Dahlen, president of Avant Energy, which manages the Minnesota Municipal Power Agency, is blaming Avant's engineering and construction contractor for the pesky failure of the wind turbines to function in the cold weather. Dahlen says "I think the contractor should absolutely have know about the cold weather issue..." but doesn't disclose if Avant broached the subject with the contractor, Henkles & McCoy, prior to the shipment and installation of the turbines.

Dahlen also fails to disclose if Avant's and MMPA's attorneys and contract negotiators insisted on including performance specifications and requirements in the contract to protect Avant's and MMPA's shareholders and stakeholders in case the wind turbines failed to operate as intended and expected.

Dahlen concludes his discussion of the situation by assuring the reporter that "The problems are all solvable problems" but provides no concrete evidence to convince anyone that he truely knows what he's talking about.

The MMPA member municipalities should instruct Avant and MMPA to review and refine their contract negotiation procedures and practices.

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