Foschas wrote:Drove a PHEV Clarity the other night. PHEV/BEV discussion aside the Clarity is a very well put together vehicle. Fit and finish far surpasses the leaf. Ride quality is very good. Road/engine noise is surprisingly low. The interior volume and appointments are amazing. I’ve test driven a Volt previously and would not consider the Volt compared to the Clarity. If your in the market for a PHEV give one a ride.

Thanks for the review!

I see you are in MA. Does anyone know if the Clarity is a compliance car like all previous plug-in Hondas (and the Fit EV was not particularly available, even in CA), or will it have actual availability across the country?

RegGuheert wrote:[Does anyone know if the Clarity is a compliance car like all previous plug-in Hondas (and the Fit EV was not particularly available, even in CA), or will it have actual availability across the country?

BEV version is California and Oregon only. FCEV is even more limited, available only within a certain radius of known hydrogen fuel cell stations. PHEV appears to be available where most of the population lives if not all 50 states.

GRA wrote:For those not wedded to a sedan, the Soul/e-Golf/Ionic/2018 LEAF all provide at least 110 miles of range and four or five seats for the same or less money as the Clarity.

If you need to seat 5 adults, a car as large as the Clarity is a lot more comfortable than the other choices. Around 5 inches more back seat hip room than a Leaf and considerably more leg room as well.

To be honest, at that low a lease price I would consider a Clarity if it weren't for the fact that I'm likely going to buy out the lease of my eGolf.

RonDawg wrote:BEV version is California and Oregon only. FCEV is even more limited, available only within a certain radius of known hydrogen fuel cell stations. PHEV appears to be available where most of the population lives if not all 50 states.

Thanks! It's clear why Honda would limit the availability of the H2 FCV, but I cannot understand why they have decided to restrict the availability of their BEVs.

RonDawg wrote:BEV version is California and Oregon only. FCEV is even more limited, available only within a certain radius of known hydrogen fuel cell stations. PHEV appears to be available where most of the population lives if not all 50 states.

Thanks! It's clear why Honda would limit the availability of the H2 FCV, but I cannot understand why they have decided to restrict the availability of their BEVs.

Because they know 89 mile BEVs have a very limited market in the U.S., outside of major urban areas of CARB states, especially California where they at least get HOV stickers as a perk. A few other areas give them free parking. The market will shrink even more if the fed. tax credits go away, and now that California is going to time limit the HOV stickers to four years going forward, their long-term value will also drop. We may see even more of a shift to leasing instead of buying in California due to that, because those stickers are worth more to most people (in monetized time savings and reduced stress) than any monetary subsidy being offered.

Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'.Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

RegGuheert wrote:[Does anyone know if the Clarity is a compliance car like all previous plug-in Hondas (and the Fit EV was not particularly available, even in CA), or will it have actual availability across the country?

BEV version is California and Oregon only. FCEV is even more limited, available only within a certain radius of known hydrogen fuel cell stations. PHEV appears to be available where most of the population lives if not all 50 states.

Actually, I believe it's just limited to being available at 12 dealers at the moment, which happen to be within range of numerous H2 stations. Whether they'd lease you one if you didn't have a convenient station, I have no idea. IOW, are they willing to take the chance that idiots will lease them, or do they screen to prevent that?

[Edit] It appears we may both be right, as I found this statement:

Clarity Fuel Cell is currently only available through authorized Honda Clarity Fuel Cell dealers in California to residents of California living or working in proximity to a hydrogen fueling station.

That seems to indicate that they do screen to at least some extent.

As for the PHEV, Honda has said it (and only the PHEV) will be available in all 50 states.

Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'.Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

I know with the first-gen Clarity, they were only offering them to lessees who lived or worked near Honda's USA HQ in Torrance, CA, since almost all of the few hydrogen fueling stations at that time were in LA's South Bay. It wouldn't make sense to offer a car to someone with no refueling infrastructure nearby.

RonDawg wrote:I know with the first-gen Clarity, they were only offering them to lessees who lived or worked near Honda's USA HQ in Torrance, CA, since almost all of the few hydrogen fueling stations at that time were in LA's South Bay. It wouldn't make sense to offer a car to someone with no refueling infrastructure nearby.

Honda has made a brazen decision to offer a generous lease credit of $6,500 on the Clarity PHEV, but only if you live in these states…
California
Connecticut
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New York
Oregon
Rhode Island
Vermont . . . .

As it turns out, Honda is willing to cut you a pretty swell lease deal on the Clarity PHEV, provided you live in the states listed above. What Honda is doing is simple. It’s passing on the majority of the $7,500 the Clarity PHEV qualifies for, but only in some states.

In other states like Florida, where a disgusted potential buyer tried to sign a lease deal, that money is all pocketed by Honda. There’s no $6,500 lease credit. In fact, there’s no lease credit at all. . . .

Getting traveling ZEV credits while the getting's good, I guess. I wonder if they'll expand this nationwide once 1/1/18 rolls around, assuming congress doesn't kill the tax credit entirely. IIRR, traveling ZEV credits end at the end of this year.

The Fusion Energi is going to need replacement by a mid-sized PHEV that doesn't just dump the battery under the cargo area. Driving dynamics are okay though not exciting, but the engine's apparently noisy under high power (climbing hills), and the regen paddles don't seem to do much. One IEVS poster commented on cold weather ICE issues:

Was very seriously considering this car, but learned while reading the manual that a battery heating system is not included in the US model. Result: Will not start in battery temperatures below -22F, and engine must run in temperatures below 14F (not sure if that’s also due to lack of a battery heater). Not the most encouraging setup up north in the winter. Canadian models get a battery heater, which I’m assuming will help the need for the engine to run.