Ketomaa? Not the first name that would've come to my mind when thinking about someone to lead a works development program... is he still connected to DMack and, if so, does that have anything to do with that (possible) choice?

Maybe Ketomaa has a very large pile of money behind him?

Either way, not exactly the kind of driver choice that would give you confidence about their competitiveness.....

Either way, not exactly the kind of driver choice that would give you confidence about their competitiveness.....

It doesn’t fill one with confidence does it? Straight away it tells me it’s not going to be like the VW effort – that’s if these rumours are true. Jari Ketomaa isn’t the first name that I’d have thought of. Other nationalities are available...... the sport needs to lose it’s fixation with Finns/Scandinavians....

It doesn’t fill one with confidence does it? Straight away it tells me it’s not going to be like the VW effort – that’s if these rumours are true. Jari Ketomaa isn’t the first name that I’d have thought of. Other nationalities are available...... the sport needs to lose it’s fixation with Finns/Scandinavians....

Jari is 33 and in 9 attempts at his home wrc round his best finish is 7th in 2009 with 6 DNF's.....Surely a decent Finn would at least have a good record on his home WRC round (yes I do remember him leading after ss1 last year)?

This is all fun but I'm a little worried what we're witnessing here may be just the start of another domination era by a Sebastien...

It all depends on how good VW will be out of the box, but unless they're very rubbish (which they won't be after all those testing KMs) they'll soon develop and become competitive through their massive budget.

I think people are being too quick to assume that VW can just rock up with a big bag of gold and win without difficulty.

Skoda, SEAT, Hyundai, Suzuki all came and went in the WRC without troubling the record books. With VW's minimal experience of rallying, they will have a steep learning curve to climb before they even match the existing contenders. And with Latvala demolishing cars on a regular basis (he has already totalled one, I understand) they will have to run a bit faster to keep up the car supply before they even think about developing it. And Monsieur Ogier isn't averse to stuffing cars into the scenery either.

None of those manufacturers came into the WRC attracting top drivers and looking as much like a serious operation as this is.

VW don't have a minimal experience of rallying if you consider what Skoda attained over the last few years - their WRC car was rubbish but they eventually turned out pretty damn good with the S2000 lately.

I think people are being too quick to assume that VW can just rock up with a big bag of gold and win without difficulty.

Skoda, SEAT, Hyundai, Suzuki all came and went in the WRC without troubling the record books. With VW's minimal experience of rallying, they will have a steep learning curve to climb before they even match the existing contenders. And with Latvala demolishing cars on a regular basis (he has already totalled one, I understand) they will have to run a bit faster to keep up the car supply before they even think about developing it. And Monsieur Ogier isn't averse to stuffing cars into the scenery either.

You seem to have forgotten that of the 4 manufacturers you just named, 2 were owned by VW & 1 has dominated the IRC for the last 3 years.And whilst its a completely different ballgame, their 2 Skoda s2000's absolutely pissed on everyone in the SWRC this year. At every round of the WRC.

I'm not saying it'll be easy, but they do have plenty of rallying experience in the company and it'd be silly to think they'll be racing anywhere but at the front.Both their lead drivers have driven the series benchmark cars & will know exactly what is required for them to win.Both also tended to crash their cars whilst racing against the greatest driver the sport has ever seen.With Loeb gone they (well Ogier anyway) might visit the scenery less often & lets not forget Mikkelsen - He will be fast and has plenty of WRC experience

None of those manufacturers came into the WRC attracting top drivers and looking as much like a serious operation as this is.

VW don't have a minimal experience of rallying if you consider what Skoda attained over the last few years - their WRC car was rubbish but they eventually turned out pretty damn good with the S2000 lately.

Skoda's S2000 successes only really came once Peugeot had lost interest. And there wasn't really anyone else to beat. Tellingly, when M-Sport pitched up at Mpnte Carlo with a brand new S2000, they beat Skoda. Nor do I think VW will take much notice of Skoda's experience. If they valued it, it would be Skoda re-entering WRC. But VAG politics are very strange and convoluted....buy Lamborghini & Bugatti then bring out the Audi R8, own premium brand Audi but bring out the VW Phaeton, and so on.

I merely think we should wait and see what happens on the stages and not present VW with the trophy before they have even turned a competitive wheel.

I find rally very spectacular and exciting. I haven't followed it closely so far, but would like to start doing it properly.
Up till now I was ocassionally checking live timing at wrc.com, and watched vids (highlights kind I think) on youtube, if I bumped on any.

I have good and quick internet at home, but I work during the week until 5 pm (British time + 1 hour). At work internet is quite slow.

So, how do I follow rallies with the tools I have? Monte is not far away.

I find rally very spectacular and exciting. I haven't followed it closely so far, but would like to start doing it properly.Up till now I was ocassionally checking live timing at wrc.com, and watched vids (highlights kind I think) on youtube, if I bumped on any.

I have good and quick internet at home, but I work during the week until 5 pm (British time + 1 hour). At work internet is quite slow.

So, how do I follow rallies with the tools I have? Monte is not far away.

wrc.com has live results including split times from each round of the wrc.

iRally's app (http://www.worldrall..._fe/ir_home.htm) also has live stage times along with live quote from all drivers at the end of each stage of the WRC & ERC. Its also one of the best ways to keep up with all the latest rally news.

WRC's youtube also has a mountain of event highlights from the early 00's - what some would class as rallyings golden age

If and when RedBull take over, I expect changes, but not straight away. The MotorsTV coverage, while well intentioned, is poor. The sound and picture quality isn't good enough for an FiA World Series....

However, as others have noted, there are ways to follow; if you're used to F1, it will be a bit different. I really hope that RedBull TV will have some live coverage eventually. As for TV, who knows....??

The BBC a showing a motor racing legend mini series over Christmas / New Year:

Episode 1 – Sir Stirling Moss | Thursday 27 December – 8pm – BBC Two

Former Captain of the USS Enterprise and renowned Shakespearian actor, Sir Patrick Stewart tells the enthralling story of Sir Stirling Moss’s glittering race career. The pair travel to Florence in a classic Mercedes to retrace the route of Italy’s most famous road race – the Mille Miglia – and discuss how Stirling’s near-fatal crash may have been the best thing that ever happened to him.

But how will Sir Patrick cope when he drives a 1957 Formula 1 car at the scene of Stirling’s historic British Grand Prix victory?

Along with Colin’s father, Jimmy – himself a five-time British Rally Champion – Sir Chris visits the scenes of Colin’s greatest triumphs. From exploring Colin’s roots as a Scottish trials bikes champ to driving the route of the Dakar rally over the dunes of the Sahara desert, Sir Chris retraces Colin’s wide-ranging career.

His father Jimmy speaks movingly about the tragic accident that claimed his son’s life, and the pride he has in his many successes. Finally, Sir Chris faces driving the iconic Subaru Impreza over a stage of the RAC Rally, home of Colin’s famous 1995 victory.

Episode 3 – Sir Jackie Stewart | to be announced

Chef and host of BBC One’s Saturday Kitchen, James Martin tells the story of one of Britain’s greatest ever motor racing drivers, Sir Jackie Stewart.

The pair take a road-trip through the Alps in a classic supercar to re-trace the life of Seventies icon, before self-confessed motor-racing fanatic James discovers how Sir Jackie’s relentless safety crusade lives on in the Formula 1 cars of today. But will James prove himself capable of driving one of Sir Jackie’s Grand Prix-winning cars around the Formula 1 circuit in Monza ? [/b]

That's the only reasoning I can think of - he must be getting paid. You wouldn't normally leave Citroen to go to perennial losers at M-Sport. Citroen leaving and going to the WTCC is a major error.... Whatever issues the WRC has had, it's still a better series than the WTCC. Think of all those iconic WTCC events......

That's the only reasoning I can think of - he must be getting paid. You wouldn't normally leave Citroen to go to perennial losers at M-Sport. Citroen leaving and going to the WTCC is a major error.... Whatever issues the WRC has had, it's still a better series than the WTCC. Think of all those iconic WTCC events......

I actually laughed out loud at that!

But you're right about WTCC being piss although I think it was on Autoport.com that I read Loeb saying that they're going to allow much more boost in 2014.WTCC would be much easier (cheaper) won than the WRC next year though and Seb wants to go circuit racing and its not like Citroen have a GT3 car.....

I personally think that Citroen can't bear to let him go - and have decided to go to the only circuit racing series they can afford. However, after a season in a McLaren GT3, he'll surely not fancy a FWD WTCC car? Sportscars should be his future - he's proven already he's pretty useful.

Loeb?They gave him his career. They are his 2nd familyThey are doing the WTCC for himThey sacked Ogier for himCitroen have been loyal to Loeb so why wouldnt he be loyal to them?Oh, and he is in fact signed for life now too......

so does it means end of Peter solberg?? any last minute surprise?? doesn't anyone see he's got more potential than all the newbies in M-sport and he said several times that he'll drive for free ...

He retired weeks ago. At least 12 days ;)

He had an offer for 9 rounds for Citroën, or 5 rounds for free with M-Sport (more if he could come with money). He said he didn't want to bring money, he could drive for free, but he wanted a full season. That didn't work out, and he then came out to Norwegian media, saying he retired from rallying. Though, still wanting to do motorsport, he says he has offers to drive *TCC, LMS and Rallycross in the future.

He had an offer for 9 rounds for Citroën, or 5 rounds for free with M-Sport (more if he could come with money). He said he didn't want to bring money, he could drive for free, but he wanted a full season. That didn't work out, and he then came out to Norwegian media, saying he retired from rallying. Though, still wanting to do motorsport, he says he has offers to drive *TCC, LMS and Rallycross in the future.

i know he retired, i was wondering if some kind sponsors found him useuful and made a surprise entry in 2013, i also heard rumors regarding future comeback ... perhaps with hyundai, who knows, or maybe he'll go WTCC and battle with seb there. but declining 9 rounds with citroen is a bit odd TBH

i know he retired, i was wondering if some kind sponsors found him useuful and made a surprise entry in 2013, i also heard rumors regarding future comeback ... perhaps with hyundai, who knows, or maybe he'll go WTCC and battle with seb there. but declining 9 rounds with citroen is a bit odd TBH

P.S i think Btcc is much more exciting than WTCC

Don't think so. 9 rounds with Citroën means he cannot win the WDC in 2013, and no one knows what Citroën will do in 2014. Hyundai will not be a WDC-team in the first few years. Petter wants to have a shot at the title, or do something else. He used lots of money to stay in WRC over the three PSWRT years. And don't want to drive just to drive.

Petter was bringing money to M-Sport too.
And anyway, since his time with Subaru ended he has never ever looked like he was gonna win another round of the WRC. He's better off quitting now while he's just about the fastest Norwegian over a stage (although not a rally, obviously)

I'm not finding any of these Hyundai releases very convincing.
Driving a gravel spec car around a snowy airfield on 2 year old gravel tyres with no visible cooling holes in the front bumper and a roof vent that looks to me that its there for decoration is a long way away from competing in the WRC.
Then again, maybe i'm just being cynical and they're conducting endurance tests on parts......

Petter was bringing money to M-Sport too.And anyway, since his time with Subaru ended he has never ever looked like he was gonna win another round of the WRC. He's better off quitting now while he's just about the fastest Norwegian over a stage (although not a rally, obviously)

I'm not finding any of these Hyundai releases very convincing.Driving a gravel spec car around a snowy airfield on 2 year old gravel tyres with no visible cooling holes in the front bumper and a roof vent that looks to me that its there for decoration is a long way away from competing in the WRC.Then again, maybe i'm just being cynical and they're conducting endurance tests on parts......

I don't think that running around on an airfield is the bread and butter of their development program, they most likely just wheeled the car out there for those photos. The car does look very basic right now, but for a fully in-house works program that's a first for Hyundai, a longer lead time to full race-ready spec is to be expected right? Considering their expertise and budget, I was annoyed that VW didn't compete in any rallies this last season despite first showing the car 18+ months ago, so really it's a case of what each manufacturer wants to do.

I don't think that running around on an airfield is the bread and butter of their development program, they most likely just wheeled the car out there for those photos. The car does look very basic right now, but for a fully in-house works program that's a first for Hyundai, a longer lead time to full race-ready spec is to be expected right? Considering their expertise and budget, I was annoyed that VW didn't compete in any rallies this last season despite first showing the car 18+ months ago, so really it's a case of what each manufacturer wants to do.

A lot of the parts are available "off the shelf" - turbo, gearbox, suspension, brakes. But you'll also find that driving around an airfield is a fairly common way of endurance testing parts - no point in heading to finland testing to discover theres an issue with the conrods that mean they only last 200kms....

The reason VW didn't do any rallies is that they wanted to delay homologation till the last possible moment - if the cars not homologated it cant enter a rally. Its the smart, high budget way to do things. Citroen did the same with the C4

A lot of the parts are available "off the shelf" - turbo, gearbox, suspension, brakes. But you'll also find that driving around an airfield is a fairly common way of endurance testing parts.

The reason VW didn't do any rallies is that they wanted to delay homologation till the last possible moment - if the cars not homologated it cant enter a rally. Its the smart, high budget way to do things. Citroen did the same with the C4

Ah ok... actually there was an interview recently on the Drive youtube channel with Jost Capito who mentioned they wanted to homologate the car as late as possible. I was just annoyed that they showed the Polo R so long ago and then let that initial excitement die off... though they have recovered some of that with the swanky launch and high-profile driver lineup.

What else do you expect from Hyundai that's not clear from that test car then? More aero work, more bespoke cooling slots etc.?

Ah ok... actually there was an interview recently on the Drive youtube channel with Jost Capito who mentioned they wanted to homologate the car as late as possible. I was just annoyed that they showed the Polo R so long ago and then let that initial excitement die off... though they have recovered some of that with the swanky launch and high-profile driver lineup.

What else do you expect from Hyundai that's not clear from that test car then? More aero work, more bespoke cooling slots etc.?

VW did lots of testing.They ran 2 fabia s2000's for an entire year in the WRC, normally testing the Polo in the days after the event using roads in the same area as the events. There wasn't really much more they could do publicity wise in my opinion without giving away secrets they wanted to keep till themselves until homologation.

This video from Hyundai is appalling. The engine note sounds like its from a playstation game & it looks like it was recorded with an iphone. All the switches are located high up in the dash instead of on the floor - it even seems to have a standard road cars start/stop button......On another forum Colin Clark (if you read this maybe you can confirm Colin?) is attributed with saying that he was chatting to Petter Solberg who told him that he tried to get in contact with Hyundai but never managed to find anyone that knew anything about the rally programme......

VW did lots of testing.They ran 2 fabia s2000's for an entire year in the WRC, normally testing the Polo in the days after the event using roads in the same area as the events. There wasn't really much more they could do publicity wise in my opinion without giving away secrets they wanted to keep till themselves until homologation.

This video from Hyundai is appalling. The engine note sounds like its from a playstation game & it looks like it was recorded with an iphone. All the switches are located high up in the dash instead of on the floor - it even seems to have a standard road cars start/stop button......On another forum Colin Clark (if you read this maybe you can confirm Colin?) is attributed with saying that he was chatting to Petter Solberg who told him that he tried to get in contact with Hyundai but never managed to find anyone that knew anything about the rally programme......

My point about VW is just that with the initial announcement you get a lot of excitement and intrigue about the team entering and racing, but then with such a long lead time (I understand that it was necessary) you're waiting a long time to see the car turn a wheel in anger. I felt at the time that they should've tested and developed the car in as much secrecy as they could for as long as they could, and then announced the program and car closer to the anticipated race debut. But the Monte isn't far off so I digress...

No offence to the great man, but this first (although not fully) Loeb-less year is really exciting for me, and I can't wait to see what the M-Sport lineup can do, whether VW with Ogier and Latvala (and Mikkelsen later on) can surprise and if Sordo can finally win a rally in a top car now his 'boss' isn't around...

The problem with rallying is that its very hard to do things in secret if you're doing them right.
You have to test in the countries and on the stages that the WRC uses with an established driver.
There have been plenty of unofficial test videos on youtube and to be honest I cant wait for the Monte either - this could be a great years rallying.

Yes, but what good is speed if you cannot convert it into result? Besides Solberg had factory spec car.

Actually, the spec on the car, and engine mapping (everything regarding the car) is the only thing the Østberg-family hasn't "complained" about. Usually it was money, not as much testing as Petter & Latvala, money, more money, look how great we do, money, testing etc. But never anything about the car.

And I do agree that speed is nothing without converting it into results. It just looks like many thinks Østberg will be a big threat to the WDC. That might happen, but there is nothing in his actual speed that looks like that atm.

Oh, and yeah, I still don't like him after the way he beat Mikkelsen to the Norwegian rally champ. in 2007, and I also do believe that Mikkelsen have matured into a better driver than Mads. However, Mads isn't as corporate, and might be a welcome change from the usual PR-guys that arrives nowadays.