I am in the process of dynamating my doors and I thought that maybe I should upgrade the stock speakers at the same time given my understanding they are not that great. All I am after is to noticeably improve on the current setup without adding amps and top-end speakers etc.

Has anybody had any experience with JBL or Infinity Kappa speakers? The ones I am thinking of are these....I know I need to tread carefully on eBay!

Is it worth it or are they not a noticeable improvement over stock? Any other suggestions?

Cheers

07GTS

01-12-2012, 12:44 AM

if u do speakers will be better to do amp aswell to get the benifit, the standard speakers are 2ohm and ur replacements will be 4ohm so the head unit will be less powerful with better speakers and may sound worse because, but i havnt hurd one with just better speakers so im not sure if they sound better or not, im sure someone here might have done it so they can comment better

metester

01-12-2012, 06:27 AM

Thanks 07GTS. I thought that would be the case but having spent way too much on car audio back in the day I am reluctant to again. I a little over it!! I thought maybe some benefit could be had given I am laying some Dynamat etc. and I could change speakers at the same time. The JBL's and Infinity's are rated at 2Ohms which I thought would overcome the need to get an amplifier as well. I am not after big-bucks improvement just something a little nicer than stock.

07GTS

01-12-2012, 09:34 AM

if there 2 ohm will be ok u might not get more volume but the quality might improve a little, dynomat as much of the rear deck as u can and cover up all those little holes too will help the bass...

metester

01-12-2012, 10:22 AM

Thanks. I did the rear deck yesterday and covered as many holes as possible. It made a noticeable difference. Whilst everything was out I secured all cables, rattles etc., by wrapping them with sponge or backing them with rubber etc. The worst offenders were the cables and trim that run alongside the C-pillar where the airbag sits and gaps under the parcel shelf. It made a huge difference. I recently installed a 2.5" catback and it bought out all those little rattles that pissed me right off!! I am also going to try swapping the polarity on the subs and see how that goes. Doors are on the agenda next week!!

07GTS

01-12-2012, 12:48 PM

yea doors are ok to do i done against the outside skin and the inner metal, yes the polarity will help a little too for the subs...

metester

04-12-2012, 05:09 PM

Just did the subs and it did make a difference. Bass seems a little tighter and more enduring when it needs to be.

07GTS

04-12-2012, 05:54 PM

yea i found i could go louder what sounds like distortion is just vibration/rattles once dampened helps, i still havto use a bit insulation or something between the rear deck and the metal to help a tad more when i get motivated...

surfwagon

04-12-2012, 06:46 PM

Just did the subs and it did make a difference. Bass seems a little tighter and more enduring when it needs to be.

What subs did you end up using, I have a pair of JBL free air subs to fit to my Z when I get around to dynamating the parcel shelf.

metester

04-12-2012, 07:11 PM

What subs did you end up using, I have a pair of JBL free air subs to fit to my Z when I get around to dynamating the parcel shelf.

I kept the stock ones. I just reversed the wires on them. Cheapest tweak I have ever done!

"E1 Clubby R8 when only an 8 will do!"

surfwagon

05-12-2012, 08:44 AM

Yeah I've heard about doing that with VE's wonder if it will work on the Z.
Maybe the wires in the vE's was around the wrong way to begin with.

metester

05-12-2012, 09:26 AM

Maybe the wires in the vE's was around the wrong way to begin with.

That's what I thought too!!

"E1 Clubby R8 when only an 8 will do!"

Stewiecasserole

06-12-2012, 10:47 AM

For less than a couple of grand you can turn your cabin into an awesome sound stage. I put a 12" Morel in the boot, Morel splits in the front, Morel 6x9s in the parcel shelf, lined the boot and front door with sound mat and power it with a Polk PA5000.1 amp. Thing is off it's tits and I still haven't done the rear doors. Plus I'll be chucking another Morel 12 in the boot and running them off a Polk PA1000.1 and with luck quite possible the last brand new set of 300W Fusion Jonah Lumu splits for the rear doors (these things are fvcking monsters) These cars have BIG cabins......give them some BIIIIIG sound and you'll really appreciate it......just like you do when you tune the engines.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HX1D5X3QL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

eggy

06-12-2012, 11:18 PM

Hmmmm...Stewie, I just may have to hassle you for some tips to get some nice audio for my tourer!
I don't want to muck up the factory look though with big speakers and subs jutting out-I want a nice integrated look.
Anyway, can you pls give me some pointers to which Vic audio shops I should visit for some inspiration? :)
Thx!!

Stewiecasserole

07-12-2012, 10:59 AM

Hmmmm...Stewie, I just may have to hassle you for some tips to get some nice audio for my tourer!
I don't want to muck up the factory look though with big speakers and subs jutting out-I want a nice integrated look.
Anyway, can you pls give me some pointers to which Vic audio shops I should visit for some inspiration? :)
Thx!!

Cool. ZMan just did his GTS with some under seat subs. Haven't had a chance to hear it yet but I'm sure it will rock. He also did the other speakers and an amp. He installed my system ('coz I'm an idiot basically) and both of us were surprised to find that the Bose Premium speakers we were pulling out were 25W......yep, sh1t box made in Mexico 25W round turds. Disgraceful. I would highly recommend anyone to upgrade their speakers AND their amp. Even if you don't start chucking in huge subs you will rock the joint big time. I kept the OEM head unit for looks, as well as the speaker grills. To look at from the inside it is totally stock.....until you turn it on. Happy to guide you to some great sites that will help you decide and save you some serious dollars. I got my stuff local but Zman went online and saved a packet.

dannym81

08-12-2012, 04:28 PM

Hmmmm...Stewie, I just may have to hassle you for some tips to get some nice audio for my tourer!
I don't want to muck up the factory look though with big speakers and subs jutting out-I want a nice integrated look.
Anyway, can you pls give me some pointers to which Vic audio shops I should visit for some inspiration? :)
Thx!!

Freeway car audio did mine (dandenong) and I'm very happy. They scratched a bit of the trim above the glovebox and replaced it without trying to hide it. They showed me the damaged trim and I could barely see it. That was pretty important in my eyes. Could have easily not said anything.

eggy

09-12-2012, 08:58 PM

Awesome! Thanks for the tips guys.
Yeah, the Tourer has pretty average speakers, plus no amp or sub either, so definitely some room for improvement. Will try and do some research over Xmas :)
Dannym81, good to hear about great customer service for a change!

metester

13-12-2012, 11:54 AM

I have just finished installing Rockford Fosgate Punch series 6.5" splits and 6" 2-ways in the rear. I am very impressed to say the least. They defy their 89db, 4 ohm rating. I was told they are a very efficient speaker series and I can now confirm it is the case. I noticed only a slight increase in the volume level required on the stock unit. I also pumped it up with no noticeable distortion around the 40 mark. I didn't want to go any higher being new speakers etc. I also had to turn down the bass and treble settings to 0. A slight negative is the tweeters sound a little bright but I was able to improve that by turning down the treble level.

Finally, for a former car audiophile who has been there and done that and a little over it now, I am very happy with the results from simply upgrading the speakers, dynamatting the doors, parcel shelf and boot, rewiring the subs, disconnecting the centre speaker and turning up the gain on the amp. The end result from these relatively simple mods is a nice, clean, clear sound that admittedly won't win any comps but suits me fine.

Is it worth it or not? A resounding yes in my book.

"E1 Clubby R8 when only an 8 will do!"

eggy

13-12-2012, 05:03 PM

Awesome mate!
How long did the job take you?....must've been fiddly?
Are the Rockfords the same specs as the Walkinshaw upgrade?
Well done!

metester

13-12-2012, 06:22 PM

Awesome mate!
How long did the job take you?....must've been fiddly?
Are the Rockfords the same specs as the Walkinshaw upgrade?
Well done!

Thanks mate. I reckon the whole project including Dynamat took me about a week with heaps of interruptions but I reckon if you got a good run at it you could get it done in 4-5 days but I am a little slow!!

The Rockford's are very much like the Walky Package. They use the Punch series however their specs are slighly different but not enough to make a difference. Their site may have an older set of specs or something like that.

It did get a little fiddly at times. Besides being careful not to damage anything like trim pieces etc., it got a little fiddly when fitting the speakers to the pods in the doors. The fronts needed to be trimmed a little and the new speakers then fitted to them. I also had to make a small bracket for the tweeters but that wasn't too difficult. I think the key is to take the time and be patient.

Stewiecasserole

13-12-2012, 08:17 PM

LOL.....mine runs distortion free at 63....flat out.....full bass.

metester

13-12-2012, 09:32 PM

LOL.....mine runs distortion free at 63....flat out.....full bass.

Like I said. "Been there. Done that. Over it."

Enjoy it mate. :)

"E1 Clubby R8 when only an 8 will do!"

eggy

02-01-2013, 04:13 PM

Rather than start new thread, just thought I'd ask options on a setup recommended by an audio shop today:

This is for my wagon, and meant to be a nice stealth install, with custom enclosure (similar to walkinshaw) for subby and amp in the boot (on the side to minimise space loss).

Quoted $3k incl labour, cables etc...

Please let fly with thoughts on componentry, costs etc! :)

Thanks guys!

metester

11-01-2013, 12:54 PM

I am not up to speed with the components except to say that in my experience, Focals and Alpines are very good quality and perform well. Dynamat is a must and if I were you I would include the rear of the wagon where possible also. That subby is likely to cause heaps of unwanted vibration.

Best of luck! It is going to sound awesome.

"E1 Clubby R8 when only an 8 will do!"

eggy

13-01-2013, 10:04 PM

Had a couple of other opinions:
One recommended Phoenix gold front splits, amp and 12in subby, and not to worry about rear speakers. Also just dynamat the front doors.
Other shop advised alpine type r's all round, incl amp and 12in ported subby, dynamat front doors only, and forget signal processor and just get a good line out converter ie PAC (which was about $100)....he only recommended a processor if I had a budget of $4k upwards...

So many decisions...!
Doing some more research :)

metester

15-01-2013, 08:54 AM

I have been an Alpine fan since owning my first car and back when I was into car hi-fi big time! I am a little biased but will always consider Alpine up near the top of my list as I have never had a poor experience with them both in sound and quality. My opinion about how to treat the rear of the car is that for a system to be complete it should also be done. Sometimes dealers will tell you not to worry about the back to bring the initial price down knowing that eventually you will want to complete the system and come back for another purchase. They will also claim that speakers in the rear doors are in the wrong position for good sound anyway. This is true but it could be argued this is the case for all speakers in cars given they don't really have the flexibility of a home hi-fi and you are always going to compromise and compete with seating position, car/road noise etc. Basically for best audio treble sound needs to be in direct line to your ears whereas bass does not. It is also true though that with the growth in use and improvement in subs the need for rears is diminished. It used to be really important with people selecting high quality 6x9's for the rear parcel shelf.

A good way to test what effect the rear speakers have is to fade your system all the way to the rear and have a listen to different music and then do the same to the front and then back to balanced. Can your here the difference? Is it better? If yes, then you should get the rears. Also, how interested are you in providing better sound for passengers? If you do decide to go for the rears then Dynamat it too. Also and being a little traditional, I like to match speakers (perhaps with the exception of the subby) well by selecting from the same brand and range. Speakers all have their individual sound and characteristics and I prefer to follow some basic rules about home hi-fi and theatre to get a more even and balanced sound.

Finally, you are likely to get a wide variety of opinions, many of them at odds with each other and likely in disagreement with me! The beauty of car sound is that it is individual and comes down to your taste. Whatever you decide I am sure you will be happy with. :-)

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk HD

eggy

15-01-2013, 01:28 PM

Wow-many thanks for the informative reply! Your tips make a whole lotta sense.
Yes, you're quite right about car audio -it's a black art, and never will be as "simple" as home audio to get good quality sound. All very subjective!

I will still probably go with updated rear speakers, just to compete the picture.
Still undecided though about:
10 or 12in subwoofer (is there a huge difference in sound quality?)
Do I need a separate amp for the subby? (Some dealers say yes, others have said get an all-in-one)
Line out converter vs sound processor-will there be a big gain in SQ considering the price difference?

Again, I'm not wanting to get sound-off trophies...just want a good quality system which I can enjoy on my long trips!!

Thanks again :)

metester

15-01-2013, 04:44 PM

Wow-many thanks for the informative reply! Your tips make a whole lotta sense.
Yes, you're quite right about car audio -it's a black art, and never will be as "simple" as home audio to get good quality sound. All very subjective!

I will still probably go with updated rear speakers, just to compete the picture.
Still undecided though about:
10 or 12in subwoofer (is there a huge difference in sound quality?)
Do I need a separate amp for the subby? (Some dealers say yes, others have said get an all-in-one)
Line out converter vs sound processor-will there be a big gain in SQ considering the price difference?

Again, I'm not wanting to get sound-off trophies...just want a good quality system which I can enjoy on my long trips!!

Thanks again :)

No probs!

Assuming quality and performance are the same I would go for a 12" sub in your car simply because it will maximise the thumping bass if that is what you are after. It's all about air movement when it comes to subs and (simplisitcally) the bigger the speaker the more air movement. I would also dedicate an amp for the sub too. Some subs can be very power hungry. Obviously, all this changes if space is an issue!! (I think I recall you wanted to minimise the space usage?) An active 10" sub or 10" sub running off a multi-channel amp would then be the way to go.

I am not too familiar with sound processors vs. a line out converter and am not sure this is right but thinking logically would it really enhance the sound? One thing to remember is that your weakest link will be your headunit. If your source unit was top end then maybe the processor would be best made use of but with the head unit being what it is I am not too sure you will get bang for your buck where a good LOC would do the job nicely.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk HD

eggy

16-01-2013, 02:03 PM

Yes, have been looking at some active thin subs...focal seem to be very popular. Obviously, they would save up a lot of room (which I'm trying to conserve as I have a wagon), especially if it can be mounted under the seat!

The sound processors are apparently akin to a super fancy equaliser, and takes all "interference" out from the head unit. Costs a bit under a grand, and involves a bit of tuning by the dealer too.

Auditioned a few brands, and the Focal speakers were very nice, and good package deals on them at the moment also helped!
I went for the Focal active sub because it can fit under the seat, and it actually sounds really good!

Getting it all done late next wk, so fingers crossed it all goes (and sounds) well!!

metester

18-01-2013, 05:53 AM

Nice one. I like the Focals. Great rep and they are a very efficient speaker too. The active sub is interesting. I hadn't seen one of those before. Makes for a nice, stealth install. It is going to sound awesome! When you crank it up for the first time I bet you forget about the $3.1k. ;)

Now the loooong wait until next week begins! I look forward to hearing about how it sounds.

eggy

18-01-2013, 11:26 PM

Yeah-will take two days for the job, so hopefully get it back end of next wk.

Already looking around for some good music to test the system, any tips?

Trouble is though, I play most music through iPhone, so not the best medium to do justice to the system I guess!

metester

19-01-2013, 07:37 AM

Whenever I have trialed hi-fi products I have demo'd them using some music I am familiar with and know it to "sound good" to me. That gives me a good reference point to something I already have an opinion about. I then use a variety of stuff to test out a good range eg., some doof-doof to test the thumping bass, some acoustic for clarity and vocals, classical to test pretty much everything etc., etc.

As far as music on the iPhone goes you can at least ensure you have it stored at it's highest quality and not compressed to save space. From memory 320Kbps is the best that iTunes will do for MP3's or maybe a straight AAC file copy?? Being old enough to remember the good ol' days of vinyl and the difference that CD's made I still recommend using CD's with some quality music. My reasoning is that music stored on iPhone's etc., typically has one more layer of compression and also is connected to the system via an aux. input which in my opinion, is not as good as playing a cd on the head unit itself.

Sorry for the long winded answer!! To put it simply your new system is going to make it feel like all your old music is new again and reveal stuff you probably never realised was there before. It's the best feeling!!

eggy

19-01-2013, 11:39 PM

New standard for itunes is 256kbps, which I guess is better than the old 128...but the dealer did tell me that a good CD is always going to be better than through iphone. He also said try to avoid ripping music to the headunit HDD cos the compression is really high.

E3Senator

06-03-2013, 09:47 AM

Hey guys have a quick question about an install i just had done on my E3 Senator. System is as follows so far.

I have left the standard subs in the parcel shelf at this stage and am actually surprised as it doesn't sound too bad. But i will be looking at replacing these with possibly 2 x 8" JL Audio subs as i would prefer to leave the boot free from a sub enclosure.

Anyone had experience with replacing the existing subs and the sound quality after doing so?
Also usually when turning the car off and ignition off the stereo keeps playing and obviously you can use the stereo keyless for an hour as well, but since the install the stereo sound turns off after the ignition is turned off. Also if you want to use the stereo in keyless mode (when washing the car etc) the stereo turns on and everything works except the sound? I know this may be a silly question but i am not very technical with this stuff. Is this normal, and is there a way around it?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the thread hi-jack new to all this.

metester

06-03-2013, 10:19 AM

Hey guys have a quick question about an install i just had done on my E3 Senator. System is as follows so far.

I have left the standard subs in the parcel shelf at this stage and am actually surprised as it doesn't sound too bad. But i will be looking at replacing these with possibly 2 x 8" JL Audio subs as i would prefer to leave the boot free from a sub enclosure.

Anyone had experience with replacing the existing subs and the sound quality after doing so?
Also usually when turning the car off and ignition off the stereo keeps playing and obviously you can use the stereo keyless for an hour as well, but since the install the stereo sound turns off after the ignition is turned off. Also if you want to use the stereo in keyless mode (when washing the car etc) the stereo turns on and everything works except the sound? I know this may be a silly question but i am not very technical with this stuff. Is this normal, and is there a way around it?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the thread hi-jack new to all this.

Firstly, I am not familiar with the model of sub and haven't done it myself however, given the level of improvement I noticed by doing a similar job to you I would be confident that you would notice a difference by replacing the subs. You would need to make sure they are suitably matched to the amplifier (assuming you are keeping the stock one) and are "free-to-air" ie. no enclosure required, type subs.

I am far from an expert in this but as far as the ignition and sound issue goes I would contact the installers and question this. One possibility is that given you have added an amp they may have fiddled with how this works and/or the amp is not being triggered properly and in unison with the head unit. I suspect the later is the case. They may have tapped in to a separate ignition wire to trigger the amp and not the one that determines when the head unit turns on/off which I understand is activated by the door actuator (door latch?). Given your speakers are now run by the new amp that could explain why the stereo turns on but you do not have sound. A quick check would be to locate the amp (if you can easily get to it) and see if it is turning on/off when this happens. Obviously if at any time your head unit is on and the amp is not then I would be confident that is your problem.

Be sure to us know how you go!

07GTS

06-03-2013, 06:47 PM

yep i would say the same the head unit is triggered buy its power supply BCM maby and the amp by just plain ignition/accessories, if u trigger the amp by the same as head unit it will work the same as factory with the delay time...

bush_basha

07-03-2013, 11:54 PM

Hey guys have a quick question about an install i just had done on my E3 Senator. System is as follows so far.

I have left the standard subs in the parcel shelf at this stage and am actually surprised as it doesn't sound too bad. But i will be looking at replacing these with possibly 2 x 8" JL Audio subs as i would prefer to leave the boot free from a sub enclosure.

Anyone had experience with replacing the existing subs and the sound quality after doing so?
Also usually when turning the car off and ignition off the stereo keeps playing and obviously you can use the stereo keyless for an hour as well, but since the install the stereo sound turns off after the ignition is turned off. Also if you want to use the stereo in keyless mode (when washing the car etc) the stereo turns on and everything works except the sound? I know this may be a silly question but i am not very technical with this stuff. Is this normal, and is there a way around it?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the thread hi-jack new to all this.

do you have a processor or LOC at all or does the amp have high level Inputs?

Mustn't have high level if it doesn't get controlled by the head unit I'm thinking?

E3Senator

08-03-2013, 10:04 AM

Thanks for the input guys. I did ring the installer and he told me that he sets up all VE's this way. I must say it's a little frustrating as don't really notice how much of a good feature it is for the stereo to continue running whilst the car is off until you open the door, or even more so the 1 hour keyless setup.

The reason I bought the JL Audio XD-700 was because it was supposed to eliminate the issue of having to buy a LOC or processor and perfect for what these systems require.

I have just checked the amp power situation, and as soon as i turn the accessory off or take the key out the amp does not have any power. Only turns on when the key is turned to accessory. Is this a hard fix to have it back to the way it was at factory, because i would really prefer it to work as standard? Anyone understand the reasoning of why he would set VE's up this way?

metester

08-03-2013, 01:07 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I did ring the installer and he told me that he sets up all VE's this way. I must say it's a little frustrating as don't really notice how much of a good feature it is for the stereo to continue running whilst the car is off until you open the door, or even more so the 1 hour keyless setup.

The reason I bought the JL Audio XD-700 was because it was supposed to eliminate the issue of having to buy a LOC or processor and perfect for what these systems require.

I have just checked the amp power situation, and as soon as i turn the accessory off or take the key out the amp does not have any power. Only turns on when the key is turned to accessory. Is this a hard fix to have it back to the way it was at factory, because i would really prefer it to work as standard? Anyone understand the reasoning of why he would set VE's up this way?

I don't think it would be that difficult for it to be modified to run as per stock although I suspect for the installer it might be more convenient to do it the way they have as that would work for pretty much all vehicles. Basically all it requires is splicing into the correct wires used to draw power/ignition for the head unit instead of the ones they have used. One conservative reason they may do it this way is to save the extra draw that the amp has on the battery but I wouldn't consider that to be a good enough reason.

For what it is worth I would have it changed and I also wouldn't expect to pay much (if anything) to have it done.

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bush_basha

08-03-2013, 04:06 PM

you need to find out on where the remote on is wired to. if its just accessories, then get yourself a PAC Audio TR7 (google it) wire it up as it says, because then your amp will be controlled how you want it. the tr7 splices into power, earth and speaker wire, it will turn on and off via speaker voltage.

07GTS

08-03-2013, 11:21 PM

just find the factory amp wiring in the boot and test the power to see if it turns on/off with the headunit and if it does just use that for the trigger for the amp..

E3Senator

03-07-2013, 10:17 AM

Hi Guys,

Bit of an update so apologies for the late reply on how things went. I asked the installer why this doesn't work, and his response was that my AMP (JL-XD700 5 channel) doesn't have audio sensing turn on and that maybe i can buy something to change this? Like i said i have no idea about this stuff (which is why i don't install myself or do any of my own work). He also said that the amp has no acc output therefore no 1 hour keyless play. Any thoughts?

Also a quick question for anyone with thoughts or info with this mod. At present i still have the standard parcel shelf subwoofers installed and they are running off the new JL AMP as well as the front splits and rear coaxials. I was going to buy 2 new 8" subs to go into the parcel shelf (as stock sound ok but limit the rest of the system etc) and to save having a sub & box in the boot for boot space. Anyone done either of these options? Which option do you think would be best and why? Thanks.

Y2Clubby

07-10-2013, 06:06 PM

It's the trigger wire. Use the remote trigger wire from the head unit, run that to your amp and you'll be good to go.

03 Club

11-10-2013, 05:02 PM

... and I have learned that if you get halfway into it yourself and get cold feet or completely lost in what you're supposed to be doing, you can still just take it down the road and blame a mate for biting off more than he can chew. Provided you've only taken some covers off things and maybe unscrewed something that has nothing to do with the audio setup, you won't pay for it as there's no work to be reversed. You're no worse off for having given it a go.
I took my VT (previous car, RIP) in with all the door skins off and the new head unit installed (just needed to run wiring to amp in boot) with a mess of wires and RCA's just hanging out of the back of the thing and the guy was stoked after he was satisfied that I'd wired the head unit up properly! I walked in all apologetic for the mess it was in and he said that I'd actually saved him 2 hours work and the price reflected less labor!
But I digress...
Easy mods are only easy if you know how to do them. The only way any of us will know how to do anything is to learn how to do it. The best way to learn is to give it a go. There's no 'self destruct' sequence that you'll inadvertently trigger by messing around with the remote wire.