A few hours after Biack Ghost account disappears, Saints of Hell cordoned off bike store with police tape.

BIACK LISLE'S ACCOUNT DISAPPEARS AFTER SUCCESSFUL DMCA

On the 25th January, I opened up Biack Lisle's profile and looked at his groups, finding one that had open access. I entered it, and looked through the list to see his last log-in date. However, he was nowhere to be found. Confused, I decided to enter another of the groups found listed in his profile, and found that his name was not listed inside that group either. This is something that I had never seen once in my 3 years of being a Second Life Resident. How could the groups be listed in Biack's profile, when he did not appear to be a member of those groups? I suspected that the Biack account was in suspension pending the outcome of the DMCA investigation, but of course, I had no way of knowing for sure.

On the evening of the 26th January, the Biack account logged back into Second Life after a seven day absence, and was once more visible in the groups he had joined. His avatar stayed online for about 20 minutes before going offline again. A few minutes later I was advised by Motor Loon that Linden Lab had processed his DMCA request, removing the copybotted bikes from inworld and from Biack's inventory, and that the Biack Lisle account had disappeared from search.

Location of Work(s):Saints of Hell (218,236,54)Inventory of BIack Lislehttps://xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1396137https://xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1396126

Sincerely,

Linden Lab

========================

However, Linden Lab failed to remove the vendors themselves, which were basically carbon copies of the bikes that were stolen. This gave the Saints of Hell group the convenience of being able to copy the bike again, directly from the vendors that the Lab decided to leave untouched in the store. I wondered why the Lab was making it so easy for the thieves, and if this failure to comply fully with the DMCA notice left them liable to being sued.

A few days after the disappearance of the Biack Lisle account, a new sergeant-at-arms appeared in the Saints of Hell group by the name of Biack Ghost, and was quickly deleted by Linden Lab a few days later following multiple abuse reports by the original creators of the stolen bikes.

LOVELY PEOPLE...

I decided to put a pick in my profile to let everyone know that I was about to release a new Herald article, and filled it with text regarding this case. Within half an hour I was contacted by some of the Saints of Hell members. Here is the chat that I had with November Shelman.

November Shelman: So you think Linden Labs are full of shit huh?Coke Supply: Did they absolve Black Lisle of any wrongdoing?November Shelman: Seems a bit contradictory, maybe you shouldn't be in SL. Yes they have.Coke Supply: Do you have confirmation of that? An email perhaps?November Shelman: And they will force you to remove the TOS violation in your profile. How's this for confirmation? They gave him back his inventory and he is still inworld - and when Linden Lab forces you to remove the TOS violation that will be the cherry on top of his name being cleared. And you WILL remove it.Coke Supply: So did they send you confirmation that they found nothing wrong? Is Black Lisle's account still open?November Shelman: What do you think?Coke Supply: Can I see the confirmation please?November Shelman: His account was reactivated. What more proof do you need? But then you already knew that since you were here last week. You will get your confirmation when you are forced to remove the TOS violation.Coke Supply: I can't find Black Lisle in the search. Did Linden Lab ever send Black a notification that he had done no wrong before his account disappeared?November Shelman: His account hasn't disappeared. His account was investigated then released back to him.Coke Supply: I can't find the Black account in search. The Biack account, yes, but the Black account, no. The Black account was the one that had a DMCA filed against it. And then it disappeared.November Shelman: Look, I'm not gonna play with you. I'm here to tell you that if you think Linden Lab is so full of shit then maybe you need to go play a new game. Trust me, you will remove the TOS violation, and if you are not forced to do so I WILL PERSONALLY make your Second Life miserable. That is no threat, it's a promise.Coke Supply: Well tell you what, if you can give me confirmation that Black was absolved by Linden Lab, then I will remove the profile pick.November Shelman: You'll remove it EITHER way.Coke Supply: So you will provide me with confirmation?November Shelman: No matter what, you are in violation of TOS so do what you wish but you WILL remove it.Coke Supply: Ok fair enough, I guess you got me. So, can you provide me with confirmation?November Shelman: I'm sure if you or a friend stood directly affected by his guilt or innocence then Linden Lab would be more than happy to provide you with such documentation.========================

November did not realise it, but Linden Lab had indeed provided Redtail with the results of the DMCA but I did not want to mention it because it seemed that the Saints members were oblivious to its outcome at this point in time, and I wanted to catch as many of the Saints of Hell group members as possible lying to me about Black/Biack's innocence before they discovered that the account was deleted.========================

November Shelman: Otherwise, it's not my place to do so and I'm willing to bet it is not yours. But the TOS violation you've committed is however against me as well as the rest here.Coke Supply: Tell you what, I will rewrite it to make it as objective as I possibly can.(5 minutes pass)Coke Supply: OK I'm done - I removed the poem on the front of my profile as an extra act of goodwill :)========================

After making the changes, November Shelman did not respond to me again, and never produced any evidence of Black/Biack creating the bikes or of Linden Lab finding him innocent of copying them. The poem was placed back into my profile.

About 30 minutes after this discussion, I was banned from Second Life for 24 hours by Linden Lab for violating their Terms of Service. They did not edit my profile and made no mention in their email of my having to edit it either.

========================

BARRIE THE IMPARTIAL WITNESS STEPS FORWARD

I also received a message from Barrie Matova, the convenient witness that apparently saw Black/Biack build the bikes with her own eyes. She decided to send me her testimony and then log off again.========================

Barrie Matova: Hi Coke, I just wanted to comment on your slanderous pick of the Saints of Hell and SLC bikes. First of all, someone already reported him to Linden Lab. He was banned for two weeks while the lindens investigated every single part and process, and THEY decided that his work was original. They gave him back every single piece and said good day. The creator of those bikes has been making them for years. He's also done major scripting for huge weapons and even clothes companies. He has way too much to lose to go around copybotting shit and possibly facing the penalties. Also he has way too much talent to need to steal from other people. I apologize if anyone griefed you, but its now a sore subject since we've ALL watched Black sitting in his little hole creating for hours and days at a time.========================

I wondered if the group would still make these kind of claims after learning of the closure of both the Black Lisle and Biack Lisle accounts due to successful DMCA filings.

I suspected Barrie to be none other than the same person that was controlling the Black/Biack account, as well as many others within the Saints of Hell group. I had noticed various grammatical quirks from the many different Saints of Hell accounts as I formatted their text for this article. The personalities behind the avatars were slowly starting to become more and more apparent to me, and I started to realise that it is not only plausible but actually quite probable that the entire Saints of Hell management could be composed of avatars controlled by either the same person or a very small group of people.

For example, the personalities behind the avatars all claimed to witness the Black/Biack accounts of creating the bikes with their own eyes, which was an obvious lie. They all seemed to be obsessed with the Terms of Service. They commonly threatened legal action against anyone that complained about their activities as an intimidation tactic. They often capitalised words to emphasise them. They liked using periods a lot. There was a remarkably high occurrence of the use of real-life imagery in their 1st life profile picks – higher than any other group I've ever seen in Second Life. Their profiles commonly claimed “By contacting me, you agree to have your chat distributed as I see fit” or similar text. They all had a remarkably aggressive attitude. They all seemed to have picks of each other in their profiles, gushing about how fantastic they all were, obviously contradicting their apparent temperament and treatment of outsiders. They all seemed to place quotes in their profiles, many instances of which were identical to other profiles. They all seemed to advertise the bike store in their profiles. They all seemed to advertise the Saints of Hell sim in their profiles. They all had a similar sense of humour. They all seemed to log on and off in pairs, as if the real-life computers they were using were shared. Of the seventeen accounts that made up the management and ownership roles that I had placed on my online status notifier, the most I ever saw online at once were five accounts, and that only happened twice during my entire two week investigation. Most of the time, only three or four accounts ever logged in at once, and all of the accounts always logged off just before midnight GMT and logged back in at around 8 to 10am GMT.

After a five-day absence, Barrie logged back in again. I wanted to ask Barrie if she could get a statement from Sims on my behalf. As I opened the chat window, it seemed that Barrie was already typing, so I waited to see what she would say.========================

Barrie Matova: I don't know how you get your info, but as a reporter, you should realize, taking your profile out of search doesn't mean the account is closed.Coke Supply: Well, finding no account under "Black lisle" or "Biack lisle" on the people tab of the search window is where I'm getting my information from, Barrie.Barrie Matova: Of course that's where you would get your information. It's only natural. But I can list my profile as unlisted and you wouldn't be able to find me either. So, if you are in fact a journalist and not a biased slanderer, you should probably get a little heavier with the fact checking.========================

After playing Second Life for 3 years, dealing with many griefing attacks on sims owned by my friends, I am well aware of what happens as an account is deleted. The account will disappear from the search on the “People” tab, just like Black and Biack disappeared. Unchecking the “Show in search” box on your profile will only prevent your account from showing up in the main search tab. Therefore, it was obvious that Barrie was lying to me. My suspicion is that the account is most likely closed. However, I believe that it is certainly possible that the account may simply be suspended by Linden Lab and may become active again in future, and the Saints of Hell are merely stating that it is “hidden from search” to cover for the fact that it was suspended due to the DMCA ruling. We shall have to wait and see.========================

Coke Supply: Well, how about two DMCA results from Linden Lab? How about all the bikes in the store getting deleted on the same day that the DMCA notices came through? Look Barrie, if he's innocent then I'm sure he will be logging in any day now to clear his name, right?Barrie Matova: That's not my business. And considering your brand spanking new "agreement" in your profile, I'm not going to be continuing communications with you. I just wanted to point out the fact that his accounts are not deleted.========================

The agreement in my profile was as follows...

Dear Saints of Hell,

By contacting me either in public or private chat, you consent to the logging and distribution of your chat to anyone I see fit to send them to, including the Herald, Linden Lab and the local police station. You also agree to keep all my chat confidential. This agreement overrides all previous agreements written in your profiles.

Regards,

Coke Supply========================

Coke Supply: Well I hope not, I would love to hear his testimony! And that statement on my profile was just to take the piss. You can do what you want with this chat. I'm not really that bothered to be honest. But as for the claims of slander... My, my, I have a LOT more dirt on you guys than you have on me in regards to slander. Not from you, though, so you're in the clear.Barrie Matova: Actually, for both of our sakes, I'm just going to mute you. I have nothing further to say.Coke Supply: Well, you do that Barrie. I don't think you were going to add anything substantial to profess the Saints of Hell's innocence anyway.========================

The Barrie Matova account disappeared offline a few moments after this conversation ended. During the entire two weeks of my investigation into the Saints of Hell, the Barrie Matova account remained online for a collective total of about five minutes; I wondered how Barrie stayed so informed about what was going on in Second Life after so much time offline. After browsing through Barrie Matova's profile picks, I discovered a pick called “Sims: My wife, my best friend in both worlds.” and was created in the Saints of Hell sim.

Below that was a pick of the motorbike store.

It wondered if Sims's alleged husband, Markkus MacMoragh, was the owner of the Barrie Matova account, and if so, if he or Sims was aware that it contained photographs that do not match with the Sims/Markkus accounts.

BRUTUS CLAIMS THE SAINTS OF HELL ARE INNOCENT

Brutus McMahon contacted me regarding this Herald article a few days before it was ready to be published.========================

Brutus McMahon: Just a word of advice. You may want to be careful about what you write in your article in the herald. Printing untrue statements for a third party to read falls under the libel clause of the defamation of character law.Coke Supply: Don't worry, I'm doing my best to make it as objective as possible based on the available information.Brutus McMahon: I don't recommend using the Saints of Hell anywhere in the article. Saints of Hell has absolutely nothing to do with the bikes in question.Coke Supply: I will bear that in mind.(30 minutes pass)Coke Supply: Brutus, I've just noticed a discrepancy. Sims Rang claims to own copyright for the bikes, and yet you say that the Saints of Hell have absolutely nothing to do with the bikes. How did she get copyright if the Saints of Hell have nothing to do with the bikes?(7 minutes pass)Coke Supply: Was she lying to me?Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.(Brutus logs back in after a few days)Coke Supply: Brutus, was Sims being dishonest when she said she owned the copyright to the bikes?Brutus McMahon: That I don't know honestly. I have tried my best to stay out of the whole thing.Coke Supply: I understand.========================

I am still suspicious of Brutus due to his continued support of Black/Biack after he saw the original bike with his own eyes. I also found that his comments about the Saints of Hell having nothing to do with the bikes to be rather suspect after noticing that Sims Rang is now the sole owner of the group from which Black/Biack operated his store before his account was removed. The website displayed in the web tab of Biack Lisle's account that was built for promoting his stolen bikes remains open, yet empty.

http://slisle-choppers.host56.com/1_4_About.html

========================

I decided to post the DMCA text into Biack's group. Sims Rang was the sole owner of the group at this point and was online at the time. I was interested in seeing how she would defend Biack to the 51 people that would receive the group chat.========================

Location of Work(s):Saints of Hell (218,236,54)Inventory of BIack Lislehttps://xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1396137https://xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1396126

Sincerely,

Linden Lab========================

Sims Rang immediately responded in the group chat, once more covering up for Black/Biack's crimes.========================

Rang rolls her eyes... give me a break. She is one of the trouble makers. And all the bikes were there. I just picked them up myself, not Linden Lab. So... she is full of shit.========================

I looked again at the group window, and open enrollment had been closed, presumably by Sims. I then received a personal message from her...========================

Sims Rang: You have been ejected from 'SL-isle Custom Choppers' by Sims Rang.Sims Rang: I will be counter suing you for use of the SOH logo - defamation of character. Have a nice life. You are muted.========================

It is laughable that Sims would want to sue for defamation of character but would not wish to sue anyone for selling the bikes that she claims to own the copyright for. I wondered where I was supposed to have used their logo, and then realised that I had it displayed in my profile when I made a pick on their own land! However, that was quite some time before Sims said she intended to sue me for defamation. I believe that the threat was because I placed this poem into the profile pick...========================

"Ode To Thieves"

Coke's on the case! She's in your face!Is that your bike? Go take a hike!It's not like you said! You stole them from Red!Created by Black? You must be on crack!Black is the thief! Give him your grief!Oh, what's wrong? Is his account gone?!Will be be back? Don't count in it Jack!We killed his alt too! What you gonna do?!Defend your thief? Give us your grief?Say that we lie? Tell us to die?Don't cry! Tell Biack we said "Hi"!========================

KRAN FIREGUARD RUNS AWAY FROM QUESTIONS

I wanted to speak with Sims Rang once more, to ask her if she would make a formal statement on behalf of the Saints of Hell to giver her account of the situation. However, after muting me, I had no choice but to speak to one of her enforcers. I started with Kran Fireguard.========================

Coke Supply: Kran, I don't suppose you could pass on a message for me? I was hoping that Sims Rang could make a statement regarding the stolen bikes that Linden Lab removed from the Saints of Hell sim.Kran Fireguard: Why don't you come to the sim and you and I can talk about it?Coke Supply: Because I've been banned by Sims and she's also muted me - otherwise I would talk directly to her.Kran Fireguard: Then I suggest you grow a pair and speak to another officer. I have NO time or use for a piece of garbage like you.Coke Supply: I spoke to Brutus but he says the Saints of Hell have nothing to do with the bikes - so I wanted to ask Sims about her claim that she owns copyright on them. What makes me garbage?Kran Fireguard: See ya, loser... muted========================

I had finally had enough of the Saints of Hell's members. They were constantly insulting and lying to me, and were probably all controlled by the same person who obviously thought that muting me would be the solution to my investigations into the bike thefts. So, I decided to confront them in their own sim, knowing that the thief that controlled the accounts would most likely be controlling at least one of the avatars there. I entered the Saints of Hell sim with an alt and approached Kran Fireguard.========================

Coke Xenobuilder: Hello Kran. You suggested I come here so I could speak with you, so here I am. Do you know when Sims is going to be online today?Kran Fireguard: OMG are you serious? Muted.Sapphire Sewell nods.Kran Fireguard: And I'll ask you once to leave... then I'm going to eject you.Coke Xenobuilder: Hmm, it's a bit strange that all you guys are muting me.Kran Fireguard: 10 secondsCoke Xenobuilder: Is Sims going to sue for defamation regarding the bikes that she says she owns copyright to?Sapphire Sewell: No comment.Kran Fireguard ejected you from this land.Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Devils%20Tower/255/19/101Coke Xenobuilder: Aw, that's not nice, Kran. So you guys would rather all mute me than talk about Sims' claims of having copyright on the bikes? Why is that?Sapphire Sewell: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Well, I know of at least two ex-members that are ready to talk. Are you sure you don't want to add anything?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: What about Brutus saying that the bikes are nothing to do with the Saints of Hell? Don't tell me... no comment, right?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Aren't you guys going to protest your innocence just a wee little bit?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: You're not going to blame everything on Black/Biack?? That's what I would do if I were in your shoes.Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Is it OK if I publish this chat in the Herald ?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Are ALL of the Saints of Hell enforcers complicit in covering up the theft? I haven't met one that wants to talk about it yet.Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: So, did Sims ask you guys to stay quiet or are you all defending the theft of the bikes of your own free will ?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Will Sims be issuing a statement about the Saints of Hell involvement in the theft of the bikes?Sapphire Sewell: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Well, could you ask her for me? I'm sending the article to the Herald today.Sapphire Sewell: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: It doesn't look good for you guys if you're not going to comment.Sapphire Sewell: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Wouldn't it make more sense to just let me know what's going on? I'm sure you're all innocent in all this.Sapphire Sewell: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: So what happened to the Black Lisle and Biack Lisle accounts?Sapphire Sewell: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Do you know if he's still hoping to sell the bikes on his website?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Christ, aren't ANY of you going to protest your innocence regarding all this?Sapphire Sewell: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: That says a lot in itself, Sapphire.Sapphire Sewell: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: So you don't want to claim that the Saints of Hell are innocent of all this?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: You know what I think? I think you guys have all been caught out selling stolen bikes from your own lies, and you know you've been caught good and proper, and anything you say now is just more lies to cover up the old lies, and that's why you're not saying anything.Sapphire Sewell: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: That's what I thought, Sapphire. Do me a favour and post this public chat to Sims Rang so that she can sue me for defamation like she says, OK? I'm sure that as she's copyright owner of the bikes, I wont have a leg to stand on in court.Sapphire Sewell: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: So I guess you don't actually HAVE a defence, huh?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: "No comment" doesn't get you very far in proving the Saints of Hell's innocence, you know.Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Well anyway, let Sims know that I was here, and that her enforcer's actions and statements only indicates their complicity in covering up for their crimes, OK?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: I'm sure she will be pleased to see how everyone was helping her out, what with the whole "no comment" thing.Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: So how's it done? Alt accounts, running the store, so she can claim it's nothing to do with her while she takes all the money?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Do the lower-down Saints members get involved, or is it just the accounts she uses to run the management of the groups?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Why does the management always seem to log on/off at the same times?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Why do so many of the managers keep stating TOS regulations during private chats?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Why do they all have a tendency to emphasise words with capitalisation?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Why do they all make empty threats to sue anyone asking questions - and then mute them?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Why is it that the Saints of Hell management and enforcer roles have so many members, but only 4 or 5 are ever online at the same time?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Why did all the managers I spoke to claim that they watched Black/Biack create the bikes with his own eyes, when they were clearly stolen?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Are you getting all this down, Sapphire? Will this sim still be here in a few months time after everyone knows the truth about the bike scam?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: Not even a teensy weensy comment to say "we are all innocent"?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: If I were to inform you that two former members of the saints of hell have come forward to give their testimony regarding the actions of the saints of hell management, what would your reaction be?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: If I told you that I had incriminating group chats that show complicity amongst the management in committing theft, what would you say to that?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: If I told you that I have seen clear evidence of Black/Biack using a copybot program, what would you say then?Burton Munro: No comment.Coke Xenobuilder: So what if I sent all of this data to Linden Lab and wrote a 30 page article about it in the Herald? Would you want to comment then?Burton Munro: No comment.Burton Munro ejected and banned you from this land.========================

My understanding at this point was that Sapphire Sewell and Burton Munro may well have been the same person. The decision of both avatars to respond to my questions with “no comment” was made far too quickly to be discussed in private chat, and the account that said “no comment” switched several times between the two during the interrogation; It was always one or the other that said “no comment” in response to my questioning and never once did they both say it at the same time, as might be expected if both accounts were controlled by two different people. This correlated with my previous observations of the Saints of Hell's management and ownership accounts constantly logging in and out at similar times and behaving in similar ways. I also noticed that very few of those accounts were ever online at the same time. Usually only 2 or 3 of the accounts would be online at once, the most being 5 accounts. Sims Rang, the owner of the Saints of Hell group and sim, had remained offline for the last seven days at the time of writing, except for the day that the police lines were put up around the bike store, and the day she contacted me with the last interview I had with her.========================

AMELIA HAINSWORTH THREATENS HARASSMENT REPORT ON FIRST CONTACT

Remember Amelia Hainsworth? The officer that claimed to witness Black build the bikes with her own eyes? The officer that ejected the original creator of the bikes when he arrived at their sim to complain about Black's theft? Well, apparently she was fed up with my harassment of the Saints of Hell, even though I had never contacted her before.========================

Coke Supply: Hello Amelia. I was wondering if you would be so kind as to ask Sims Rang to write a statement regarding the controversy around the bikes sold by Black/Biack Lisle that she claims to own the copyright for? I would ask her myself but it appears that she has muted me :(Amelia Hainsworth: Do not IM me again. Doing so will constitute harassment and I will report you for such. Good bye.Coke Supply: But this is the first time I have ever IM'd you, Amelia! You can't say I'm harassing you if this is the first time I've spoken to you before! I was just wondering if you would pass on a message, that's all. I just want an official statement from the Saints of Hell's owner, giving her side of events. That's all. I'm sorry if you feel that this is harassment. I won't try to contact you again if you don't want me to.========================

I received no response and assumed that I had been muted at this point. I found it rather interesting that Amelia thought that I was harassing her on my first ever private message to her. I suspected that this was due to each of the Saints of Hell management's accounts belonging to the same person or people, and therefore the same person/people behind the computer(s) would have been receiving my messages all day long and would most certainly have considered the constant messaging as a form of harassment.

After trying unsuccessfully all day to find a Saints of Hell member that was willing to be courteous, I was finally contacted by Sims Rang herself.========================

Sims Rang: You have not been muted, and I would appreciate that you direct all questions to Black and I solely, even though I am sure he will not talk to you.Coke Supply: When did you first get the patents and copyrights to the bikes in your store? Linden Lab sent Motor Loon a DMCA response saying they removed the items. I saw it.Sims Rang: You are mistaken. Never ONCE did I state I owned copyrights to Black's bikes.Coke Supply: So I'm in receipt of more forged chat logs huh? Well, what happened to Black/Biack's accounts? I can't find them in search.Sims Rang: HE owns copyrights. Not I.Coke Supply: Do you own the patents?Sims Rang: The patents I own are to the Saints of Hell logo. Black owns his own content patent.Coke Supply: Do you think Black/Biack might be back online any time soon to profess his innocence in all this?Sims Rang: Well, that will have to wait till court. The rebuttals have been filed. I believe the accusers have 10 days to now file in court.Coke Supply: So he does intend to contest the DMCA ruling?Sims Rang: Yes, we are. Look, I'm gonna be honest. I don't trust you. I can't say I don't like you, because I don't know you, but I think you are slanted. We have been at this with these builders for YEARS, and it always ends the same.Coke Supply: Well, if you had a bike in front of you that's 6 months old made from parts from 4 different creators, and right next to that you had Black's bike, made in 10 seconds flat on January 11th - who would you trust more then? I'm sure all the creators will be happy to meet with you. 3 of them are online right now.========================

I didn't format the following sentence as I was unsure if my interpretation of it would be true to Sims's desired meaning;========================

Sims Rang: its possible.. as me.. not being a builder can do it.. in about 30 secondsSims Rang: I have no desire to talk to any of them.Coke Supply: Might it not be in your interest? If Black/Biack was dishonest with you, I'm sure they will understand.Sims Rang: Here is what you need to understand about me. I don't give a shit if God himself came down and accused one of my own. I stand behind mine no matter what.Coke Supply: Even if they really did steal the bikes??Sims Rang: Well I know he didn't, so it's pretty irrelevant. Maybe you should learn loyalty.Coke Supply: I know what loyalty is, Sims. In fact, it's one of the things I'm known for here in Second Life. Look, you seem to believe that the bikes aren't stolen - and I have 4 content creators that claim otherwise - all of whom filed a DMCA - which Linden Lab honoured in their favour - don't you think it's time to admit that Black/Biack stole them? I understand that you want to be loyal and there's nothing wrong with that, but it won't look good if you remain loyal after a successful DMCA, would it?Sims Rang: Not at all. He builds on my private sim. Let me tell you, some of your claimants have been in trouble for botting, so they have no credibility.========================

This was quite a remarkable statement. Sims claimed that one of the victims of Biack's crimes was guilty of copybotting in the past. How on earth would this spurious statement alter the facts of the situation - the creator names and dates on the prims that the bikes were made from, the witness testimonies from half a dozen prominent and reputable builders, and essentially everything else that had led up to this very point - and why had none of the Saints of Hell mentioned this supposed copybotting previously? I am quite sure they had ample time to inform me before this point, and therefore I was quite sure that it was a lie... so I pressed for more details!========================

Coke Supply: Which ones? The only negative comments I've had about any of them is about Hiiigh Jinx, but none of those comments had anything to do with copying.========================

I only mentioned Hiiigh Jinx because Sims had already made claims about him in the past. I never did find out who she was accusing of copybotting, however, because she was unable to tell me a single name, date or object.========================

Sims Rang: Again... I do not really care how it looks. Their opinions have never mattered to me. The people who know me and our group know the truth. As for the other builders, they know who they are. I ain't gonna throw them under the bus.Coke Supply: Well just so you know, the bike in question contains a particular texture on the speed dial which is identical to the original bike. The spelling on that texture was deliberately made to say "Lakhota" instead of "Lakota". I've got a screenshot of the creator's Second Life window open showing his avatar, and the texture in Photoshop on his desktop, overlapping each other. Did Black/Biack ever send it over to him?Sims Rang: I have seen the texture in question, and to be honest, I don't know anything about it. For all I know, it could have been found on the internet. I will tell you, have your "builders" check sand boxes. I have found their shit all over Second Life.Coke Supply: Can you show me where?Sims Rang: Honey... You ain't one of mine. Go out there and find them for yourself. Be the reporter you can be. Do your leg work.========================

Just like Black/Biack stated previously, I was being told that the sculpties were found “all over Second Life”. Yet, just like Black/Biack, Sims was unable to provide me with the location of one solitary part.========================

Coke Supply: So you can't just tell me? To help your case?Sims Rang: I don't need to help our case.Coke Supply: Oh, yes you do Sims!Sims Rang: We will be ready for the court proceedings to be filed. Real life court... we are ready and waiting.========================

This was a curious comment, given that Sims claims that Black/Biack was responsible for creating the bike in question. Why would Sims be “ready and waiting” to go to court?========================

Coke Supply: What if the original sculpty files end up as evidence in that court case Sims?Sims Rang: What if it does?Coke Supply: Anyway, why would you even be there if it's Black/Biack that owns copyright?Sims Rang: Do you know how many people I have had to ban from copybotting Black? Any clue? Every day, 3-4 people. And we have people watching our shit.========================

This was very surprising, given that the bike parts could be found “all over Second Life”!========================

Coke Supply: So you banned them because they were copying the bikes, huh? Did you file against any of them?Sims Rang: Why? It's a waste of time. Do you know what judges do when this goes to court?Coke Supply: No, I haven't been in this position before.Sims Rang: Frivolous lawsuit. It gets thrown out. It's a waste of money to even bother over virtual content. So why would we waste our money pursuing? I do copyrighting in my real life for my label. I know about content theft. I have been in court many times on it.Coke Supply: I'm wondering what the judge said when Stroker Serpentine went to court over his stolen sex bed? Did that get thrown out too?Sims Rang: No, that didn't. But if I remember correctly, the 15 creators that filed ended up splitting about 54 bucks. And the guy is still in Second Life.Coke Supply: Maybe that's true but they stopped the theft didn't they? Did you see the TV programme about it?Sims Rang: They didn't. He is still in Second Life.Coke Supply: Maybe he is but they stopped him from selling the beds.Sims Rang: Maybe, but I highly doubt that.Coke Supply: Is that why you're not afraid to be taken to court?Sims Rang: No, not at all. I am not afraid to be taken to court because I know the truth.Coke Supply: Well, there's several other people that claim not only to know the truth but also have the evidence to prove it, Sims - has Black/Biack ever provided you with the original sculpt map files?Sims Rang grins... Now.. maybe he has and maybe he hasn't.========================

I'm willing to bet that he hadn't. Sims had already backtracked on her previous claim of owning the copyrights – and copyrights would be hard to prove without the original sculpt map files in her possession!========================

Coke Supply: Well, if he has them, how come there's 4 other people that all claim to have the sculpt maps too?Sims Rang: Because you can BUY sculpt maps on the net.========================

This was Sims's explanation of the case? And she waited until now to tell me this? Are we meant to believe that Redtail, Lincoln, Karyn, Trinity and Hiiigh had all purchased their bike parts from the internet? Including the unique customised sculpty with the distinctive arrowhead? All from the same websites? And Redtail and Lincoln both happened to purchase the parts used to build the Lakhota Rocket and Wild Injun bikes from the same people in-world that downloaded them from that website, or, more incredulously, bought them all from the same website themselves? And the creators assembled their bikes, with these exact same parts, not knowing that both bikes would turn out looking exactly the same as the two models in Black/Biack's store? And on one of the models, both Redtail and Black/Biack just happened to download the exact same texture used for the speed dial? And this was all done, according to the creation dates, 6 months before Black/Biack put his so-called original out for sale?

Are you fucking kidding me, Sims?!

This is an inconceivable leap of faith. Especially if Sims was still claiming that Black/Biack made the bike all by himself!========================

Coke Supply: So they bought the same sculpt maps that Black/Biack used?Sims Rang: Who knows who bought them first? Neither of us are sitting at either of their computers. And none of them are sitting at each others computers.Coke Supply: So you admit that Black/Biack DIDN'T make those parts??Sims Rang: He did make his parts. You can twist my words honey. I know you will. But, we are done.Coke Supply: I'm not twisting anything, Sims.Sims Rang: You got all you are going to get from any member of Saints of Hell aside from Black. And he should be back soon.Coke Supply: Well I hope so, I would like his take on the situation.Sims Rang: Take this as a warning to not contact any other member. They are not involved in SLC, and are instructed to report you and all alts for harassment.Coke Supply: Don't worry. The article will be finished tonight. I won't have any more reason to contact them.Sims Rang: Great. Please send me a link or a copy.Coke Supply: I must admit though Sims, our conversations with the Saints of Hell have raised more questions than they answer.Sims Rang: Well, that would be because they don't know anything about Black's business, as it's none of theirs.Coke Supply: Well, maybe it's because Black is keeping it a secret that he's stealing bikes?Sims Rang: No. Not at all. But SLC is not Saints of Hell. They are two separate entities.Coke Supply: Then why, when you were talking about the supposed impending court case, did you keep saying "we"?Sims Rang: Because I am with Black on this. Me and Black = we.Coke Supply: Is that why your website looks so similar to his?Sims Rang: My website?Coke Supply: Yes, there's a website for the Saints of Hell.Sims Rang: Oh yeah. It's under construction.Coke Supply: So you and the Saints of Hell have nothing to do with the bikes in that shop at all, right? Then why not just come and see both bikes rezzed together and hear the story of the original creators? We can all meet on neutral territory and you can see both bikes side by side for yourself.Sims Rang: Because I am way too busy and might do something I might get in trouble for if placed by your shit talking buddies. Now... we are done. My club has waited too long for me as it is.Coke Supply: Way too busy? You're hardly online as it is Sims. It wouldn't have taken any longer than this very conversation.Sims Rang: So you think. I am here daily. And sorry if it isn't convenient for you. I don't make my schedule for you. Oh yeah, and I have a real life. Now you want a real story, write about how 50% of the members will be at my wedding next weekend in real life. Black will be one of them.Coke Supply: Well, funny how you can find time to build a club but you can't come and examine the bikes I'm talking about.Sims Rang: I told you already, I don't build. I have seen the bikes. I do my own work. I don't rely on others to show me.Coke Supply: Well we can tell you what you should be looking out for - it might help in future.Sims Rang: I don't need you or anyone else to tell me what to look for. Like I told you, it doesn't matter. I have seen and I know the truth. Now... we are DONE. Bye bye sweetie. Good luck with your article.Coke Supply: Sims, I was actually hoping to get a formal statement from you regarding the whole situation. I wasn't expecting an interview. It's up to you if you want to take the time to provide me with one or not, but I'm going to send the article at midnight GMT, just under 6 hours from now and I will include your statement in it if you want - or in a later article, should Black be vindicated.Sims Rang: My statement is simply this; If they have a case, take it to court. SLC and Saints of Hell are two separate entities. I did my homework. I know the truth. And to be honest, we stand behind our brother. We know the truth on your claimants. Way back to when one of them botted the first top bike builder in Second Life. He builds on my sim, I have seen him. And that is my statement.Coke Supply: Can you tell me which one of the claimants copybotted this first top bike builder? Or give the name of the builder?Sims Rang: No, sorry, I won't.Coke Supply: That's a shame.Sims Rang: Again, I don't throw people under the bus. He knows who he is, and he is one you represent.Coke Supply: Yes but I don't know who he is. Why not give me the name of the builder? That way you're not throwing anyone under the bus, and I can just ask the builder who copied his work and I will never even have to mention your name.Sims Rang: Ugh, stop already. I am not talking to you any more. Fuck, you are worse than a sales person.Coke Supply: It doesn't take many keystrokes to give the name of this alleged victim, Sims. You could have told me before you got to the “F” in “fuck”.Sims Rang: I already told you I don't do that. Coke Supply: But you would sure as hell start an unsubstantiated rumour without backing it up with anything? Especially if the people it's about are filing DMCAs?Sims Rang: Look, sorry I am snappy. I am over this already.Coke Supply: I don't think we are going to get any more joy from each other, Sims.Sims Rang: Not likely.Coke Supply: I will send the link when the article is posted.Sims Rang: Cool. See ya.========================

I wondered why Sims seems to behave as if she is at the centre of the controversy, constantly saying “we” when referring to Black/Biack and the charges against him. However, I am ready to state at this point that I believe Sims and Biack/Black is probably the same person, and if that is not the case, then they probably know each other in real life and conspired together. They used their sim to host a bike store that sells stolen bikes, and created different personas so that they could wash their hands of the store if they ever got caught. And indeed they did get caught.

Just before I sent this article to the Herald for publication, Brutus McMahon issued a formal statement from the Saints of Hell group;========================

SLC and Saints of Hell are 2 separate entities. The 2 groups have common members, but neither group benefits from the other, therefore they are separate. Saints of Hell should not be brought up in this mess in any way shape or form. Just because one member that stands "accused" of wrong-doing, should not effect the entire motorbike club. While we stand behind all our members no matter what, the Saints of Hell group is not liable for anything a member chooses to do in their personal business. Should this be brought to real-life court, any lawyer and judge will tell you the Saints of Hell Motorbike Club accusations of liability has no standing. Therefore any allegations and further pursuit holding the Saints of Hell liable will be inadmissible.========================

Coke, stop already. I've never seen anyone bitch this much about copybotters, let alone pursue something so unimportant. I've been to the SoH sim, and quite honestly didn't see a big "Go fuck yourself if you think our shit's copybotted" sign, I didn't see bikes out front like the ones in the pics you keep posting.

So far, and I say this as a freelance reporter(we all need our little in-game hobbies sometimes)I have only seen information on your side from the pictures. And yet I see nothing in plain sight as in the pics that was in the pics.

I'm not siding with anyone on this matter yet, and if I ever do it'd be to simply get my opinionated conclusion across, but I just wanna say this:

I offered to Novemeber already but I'll make the offer publicly: If someone from SLC feels their side has been presented unfairly AND is willing to both do an interview and have their product examined, I will be perfectly happy to present the article. I don't have any stake in either side being right. If you think Coke Supply is wrong, step up and provide proof.

OMG! Is this Coke guy out of control? It's one thing to report but this seems to be crossing the line a bit. Posting a take down notice in a group chat? HUH? That's not reporting that's harassing. Come on you guys are better then that. What's next? Pizzing in their shoes? Take pictures when you do. LOL

Coke, I do hope you realise just how creepy you're making yourself look with all this. The level of disclosure and surveillance you and your cohorts are carrying out, quite frankly ranks up there with what the JLU had been doing with their wiki. Just as was were the JLU's activities, this has turned into yet another case of vigilante justice combined with a public smear campaign. This is a private matter that concerns two creators and the company running the game. It is not something that should be screamed at to the public using some Fox News sensationalised reporting style.

In all honesty, I would urge you to get a grip on reality and think of what you're doing before you go blathering twenty pages worth of chat logs and personal judgements.

Personnaly, I applaud Coke's covering of SOH's involvement in this matter. Considing the lack of support from Lindens when SOH was induldging in Sim crashing wars to eliminate cometition at many biker sims, it's nice to know that they are doing something about SOH finnally.

Coke, do you realize the fallacy of your argument? If you were someone who was going to copybot stuff and sell it, do you think you'd tell everyone you knew about it?

Probably not, but that just wouldn't jive with the way your mind works. There has to be a conspiracy doesn't there?

Also you show an astounding lack of legal knowledge about the way the DMCA works.

Here's how so you won't fuck your fifth frothing screed up:
1. Original creator files DMCA complaint with the US Copyright office.
2. Service Provider (Linden Labs) must comply with the DMCA and remove questionable content listed in the complaint. There is no leeway for decision making on their part.
3. Original creator must basically serve notice to the accused violator
4. The accused violator then has ten days to file a counter to this. If this is done the original creator has a set period of time to file suit in a U.S court, because that's where the DMCA has jurisdiction. It's a US law designed to protect US copyrights.
5. The case is heard and a decision is ultimately made.

So yeah, a DMCA complaint is a civil matter and the Saints were right for telling you to piss off. You sound like you harangued them until they hated the site of your obvious illegal-drug-referenced name.popping up.

Hmmmmm. SOH got busted and everyone one of them are obviously CLOSELY reading this (see i like caps too for certain words giggle giggle), whats hillarious, is they not only use bots to steal content, but they also have bots set about their land to GAME TRAFFIC, and then claim in their profiles their traffic is REAL TRAFFIC....

Face SOH, your a bunch of thieves and 98% of you probably never owned a bike in your life, how about you just rename yourselves a wannabe Mafia, with your content theft, traffic gaming and griefing of anyone who you think might be more popular than you? Yes, jealousy is a bitch isnt it?

Busted. Jokes of Second Life. I giggle giggle my ass back to work, and appreciate Cokes and his excellent reporting skills.

@orion I for one disagree. if you dont shine the bright light of day on all these sneak thieves stealing content in Second Life you get the gross spectacle of FAT BELLY EX PLUMBERS yukkin it up in SL . We call it news. That's why we ran stuff on this story in slut magazine which came as a result of Coke and her associates investigation.

It's still fun to read these things though. Coke's basically become a Kalel clone now.

I mean yea, I sound a bit uncaring about this matter but in a previous article it was claimed that dozens of thousands of U.S. dollars in bikes and bike parts was stolen by the SoH. Personally, it doesn't matter how much anything's worth, it matters how often it's bought, and I doubt the person that claimed that was getting anywhere near a tiny fraction of that number monthly in USD.

As for the whole copybot thing itself, I personally have nothing against them. Unless it severely impacts something irl it doesn't matter that much. I even don't mind copybots used for personal gain(like getting something for free instead of paying about 10-15 USD for it). That doesn't mean I use copybots, but just sayin'.

Now, say the person who claimed all that cash in bikes and parts was stolen by the SoH did get shite-tons of cash from it and paid his rent with it, or bills with it. Yes, I may care then and see it as worth caring at least a bit(although I'd consider him a lazy sod for not gettign a real job too). But I highly doubt that's the case in today's SL economy.

But enough bullshitting, I'm just gonna repeat what At0m0 said in a previous article: Someone needs to relieve Coke Supply of his coke supply.

Coke's saying, in short, a ring of well known motorcycle creators are claiming to have all been copybotted by a single particular group, making them paranoid as fuck(hey, I'm not on SoH's side but if I owned a group and several well known creators, an obsessed investigator, and multiple other people who knew them were bitching I stole their shit and started posting pics that looked like it was true, I'd go nuts), that in his opinion the entirety of SoH's members are the samefag or an evil copybotting organization, bitching endlessly about this shit, and(and this is just a theory I'm throwing out here for lulz)if he's as paranoid as I think he is, is probably thinking I myself am affiliated with the SoH just for not believing in him completely.

Like this is really going to get posted. However I am going to clear this up for you the best I can.
1.Saints of Hell and SLC are two seperate entities. Saints of Hell holds no part in any stake of SLC.
2. Barrie Matova, is my SL/RL best friend.
3. Markkus MacMoragh is my SL/RL husband.
4. All this "money" people claimed was made. LOL, please. This is SL, it is RARE to make money in here. Do a search on THIS site for Saints of Hell and see the charity work done in the past We don't need to tell you, it's already out there for you to see.
5.The people who filed these reports, check their history. Lord knows how many times they have been accused of the very same thing. Why does one of the vendors accusing have an almost identical name with just an extra vowel.
6. We would love to go to RL court on this, however, this simply isn't going to happen. None of Blacks accusers are in the same country as us.
7. half of her TOS violating self with copy/pasting chat logs (in case you didn't know, saying its being logged really doesn't count) are altered logs. Sorry, Brutus McMahon has NEVER uttered the words motorbike club. lol I talk to the man on the phone daily and probably about 75% of the club at least once a week. Sorry, we are a not just an SL club. No we are NOT a RL motorCYLCE club either, but we are a real family.

Simply put, no, we don't really care if you like us, and we stand by our brother right or wrong. That is what family does. Black is not in SL currently, though he could be, and will not be until we finalize if these idiots are going to just take him to RL court. Again, PLEASE do us the favor so we can put this to bed once and for all.

oh yeah, and no, sorry, not even we have read the whole thing without scrolling. Its pretty boring already.

All this reminds me of the South Park episode with the loud, obnoxious bikers. LOL.

I share Cartman, Kyle, Stan and the other kids'opinions about them, and it was entertaining to read in these articles, that the South Park creators weren't really overdoing it in the way they portrayed bikers.

As a sidenote, I find the claims of charity work hilarious, as if that has anything to do with this whole case. Since when is doing something nice proof that one would never, ever do something bad?

All in all, from reading this article, I am willing to believe that this black dude is at least very, very suspicious. If he were innocent, there would be a way to prove it. If I were in his shoes, I certainly would do all in my power to prove my innocence, at least.

But as it is, none of this matters really. SL is just a game, or a glorified chatroom if you will, and if you're in this game to make money, and into that enough to care about this, I have a tip for you; Go make your money elsewhere, there are just too many risks in SL. The biggest one being LL's TOS, which states you have NO RIGHTS whatsoever. LL can take what they want and dont even have to tell you about it.
Doesnt sound like a good platform to do buisness to me.

IF you are willing to take the risk and do buisness in SL anyway, then at least also show some balls and stop whining if you get ripped off. Shit happens, and it's a good day if shit hasnt happened to you already... just dont count on every day being a good one.

1.) We get it, and we don't give a shit. SoH supports SLC. They are different entities but they are still linked.
2.) Should I call bullshit? It's a pretty convenient cop-out.
3.) I probably should, but won't.
4.) Until the end of February, my company is donating 100% of all profits to the Snow Leopard Trust, a highly-rated charity organization focused on rehabilitating the snow leopard population. Furthermore, I am matching this amount with my own personal donation, no limit. Obviously I'm not making any cash right now on it. However, the past month I cut myself a much-needed check straight from the Lab (using a basic account, I might add) which entirely covered a romantic night out and a huge shopping spree. And I don't even think I'm that talented in-world. I certainly haven't been featured in any big publications, but then again, my products aren't heavily-defended copybots.
5.) I went ahead and did this for you through my friend which knows most of the RESI team personally. All but one have entirely clean records in this regard (at least for the past 9 months, which is as far back as she could easily get for me).
6.) Ah, an inconvenient truth [backspace] convenient lie. I don't think anyone's going to go to court, though, simply because there have been 2 clear-cut DMCA resolutions, and neither of them were in Black's favor. You would be the ones that would initiate a lawsuit, I believe, at this point.
7.) Alas, the Second Life Terms of Service are named as such for a reason: they are the terms of service for Second Life, not the internet. This is the loophole that lets anyone post chat logs outside of Second Life without reprimand. And besides, if consent was given (and from a legal standpoint, a warning was given beforehand that a response was assumed consent) there is no violation, in-world or not. So go whine with your buddies from your "motorCYLCE club", please, because the Lindens ain't gonna side with you, probably because they haven't been since the beginning.

Now, please, go back and read if you wish to make an educated (and properly formatted) response in your defense, because... well, I just debunked every single point you had and all I know about this is what I've read here on the Herald and heard from my RESI pals.

Not at all was I trying to offset something bad, with something good, a point was made and a point was answered. BTW, went back and re-read, Burton and Sapphire being the same person. LOL. They are another RL married couple. See, this article is slanted. She didn't care what anyone had to say to her in order to explain shit. She wanted to write what she wanted to write, be it right or wrong. FYI... we have had VERY reputable vendors run the tests of building in Openlife and uploading, and when they did it, according to Cokes way of thinking, 75% of their shit looked copybotted. Saints of Hell are done with all of it. No, they simply aren't going to comment to anyone that asks about it. We are tight like that. Anyway, once bIack gets back, it will be all good again. If you like us, come hang out, if you don't, don't. Noone is going to cry over it, and Saints of Hell isn't here to get anyones approval and damn sure aren't going anyplace. SLC, well.. that is another story, but we believe justice will prevail and bIack will be back.

"Not at all was I trying to offset something bad, with something good, a point was made and a point was answered."

I'm sorry Your Honor for stealing his car and selling it for $8000, but I volunteered at the animal shelter last week, so I think I'm off the hook, right?

"BTW, went back and re-read, Burton and Sapphire being the same person. LOL. They are another RL married couple. See, this article is slanted."

What a fantastic conclusion. Very well thought-out. So they just took turns typing, or what? I'm not going to argue about it because it's not critical to the main issue here, which is about the bikes, not about whether people have alts.

"She didn't care what anyone had to say to her in order to explain shit. She wanted to write what she wanted to write, be it right or wrong."

And you haven't provided any supporting evidence in your defense except vague explanations and irrelevant cop-outs.

Well Your Honor, I mean, you can get the parts for his car for practically free, they give them away all over the world! I'm not telling you where, but I mean, they really do. Seriously, trust me. So I don't think it matters that I stole his particular car and sold it.

"FYI... we have had VERY reputable vendors run the tests of building in Openlife and uploading, and when they did it, according to Cokes way of thinking, 75% of their shit looked copybotted."

You know why people don't build in opensim? Because the scripts occasionally don't port correctly and need to be recompiled in entirely new scripts. That, and most "reputable vendors" have their own private land to work on anyways. Also, if they are "reputable" vendors, do you mind naming them? Or are they just vendors of your imagination?

Your Honor, see, the way his car was built in 10 seconds was because when we shipped it here, it changed like that. I mean we tested that with a bunch of people and like 75% of them agreed! I don't have their names or the results, though. Sorry about that. But it's true! Believe me!

"Saints of Hell are done with all of it. No, they simply aren't going to comment to anyone that asks about it. We are tight like that."

You know who else is tight like that? Mobs, gangs, the mafia. Oh, and guess what? Not defending yourself is basically no lo contendre, which is a glorified guilty plea. Keeping everything hush-hush and in house only works for Apple, and this last time it didn't even work.

"Anyway, once bIack gets back, it will be all good again."

He ain't comin' back, at least through Biack. Maybe... Block? Or Bjack?

"If you like us, come hang out, if you don't, don't. Noone is going to cry over it, and Saints of Hell isn't here to get anyones approval and damn sure aren't going anyplace. SLC, well.. that is another story, but we believe justice will prevail and bIack will be back."

Your Honor, if you don't like what we do then just leave us alone. It's not like we harm anyone. We won't care if you just let us go or anything. Oh, and for those bikers back there that are standing behind us this entire way, they're just here to watch, they don't care if their leaders are convicted for a federal crime. And for our business... well, I guess it's toast now. But we'll break out of jail and we'll show you, goddamn it!

Yah like you claimed to be a "copyright lawyer" at our first encounter. Goodthing we found out your MYSPACE account miss law student <----epic fail .

4. All this "money" people claimed was made. LOL, please. This is SL, it is RARE to make money in here. Do a search on THIS site for Saints of Hell and see the charity work done in the past We don't need to tell you, it's already out there for you to see.

The charity work you do does not even involve cash, i know were you so called charity works is winding up. Aldo, of the sturgis sims ..need to say more? There more ppl who do there homework here not just you.

5.The people who filed these reports, check their history. Lord knows how many times they have been accused of the very same thing. Why does one of the vendors accusing have an almost identical name with just an extra vowel.

All of the ppl that filed against you, your even that stupid lady. ARE THE ONES THAT ARE PRACTICLY THE CREATORS OF BIKES AS WE KNOW IT TODAY. Motor loon, Karyn vaher,Jinx hiiigh <---known for his troublemaking skills, but MORE KNOWN FOR HIS PARTMAKING SKILLS so dont even go there.
Redtail magic, Trinity, ectra.

6. We would love to go to RL court on this, however, this simply isn't going to happen. None of Blacks accusers are in the same country as us.

Your a fraud with a to big mouth, im even planning to put your myspace account here so everybody can see that your a laughable character with not even 1 shred of decency.

Now you tell me that your really want top put a effort to discredit ppl in here? Or that the do it because the jelous as your gang claimed before. Reminder motor loon is good for a 10million l$ company in worth. Sorry i just do not see were you get the balls from to even state that its jelousy..

7. half of her TOS violating self with copy/pasting chat logs (in case you didn't know, saying its being logged really doesn't count) are altered logs. Sorry, Brutus McMahon has NEVER uttered the words motorbike club. lol I talk to the man on the phone daily and probably about 75% of the club at least once a week. Sorry, we are a not just an SL club. No we are NOT a RL motorCYLCE club either, but we are a real family.

Sorry were not like you SOH gang that thrives on fraud, would be nice to accuse us of altering the chatlogs. Its to bad that LL thinks different over the matters, because the can check that to verify it even. For them its all a push of the button..plus all the ims are copied one on 1. Afterall your the ones that need to save face. Not us ...

Simply put, no, we don't really care if you like us, and we stand by our brother right or wrong. That is what family does. Black is not in SL currently, though he could be, and will not be until we finalize if these idiots are going to just take him to RL court. Again, PLEASE do us the favor so we can put this to bed once and for all.

You did not stand by your brother at all, you FAILED standing by him.

Quote from brutus "What he does, has nothing to do with SOH"
What a way to protect you brother in arms indeed. I will do you a favor allright by responding here and we did not need to take your sorry ass to court. We allready won you just dont know it yet. I know you need a actual brain to let that sink in lady.