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Re: Biden: We Can't Recover All the Jobs Lost

Originally Posted by USA-1

Hey, it worked for Reagan.

A) no, it didn't
B) if it does work, then my question to you is the same as my response to the war-is-good-for-the-economy crowd: why aren't we currently living high off the hog in the best times ever? with the amount of deficit spending we poured into the economy in the last few years we should be in the middle of boomtown.

Keyenesianism does not work. It didn't in the 30's, it didn't in the 70's, and it hasn't for the last two years since Bush 'decided to forgo his free market principles in order to save the free market'.

Re: Biden: We Can't Recover All the Jobs Lost

Originally Posted by cpwill

A) no, it didn't
B) if it does work, then my question to you is the same as my response to the war-is-good-for-the-economy crowd: why aren't we currently living high off the hog in the best times ever? with the amount of deficit spending we poured into the economy in the last few years we should be in the middle of boomtown.

Keyenesianism does not work. It didn't in the 30's, it didn't in the 70's, and it hasn't for the last two years since Bush 'decided to forgo his free market principles in order to save the free market'.

It works for a little while. Where would we be right now had we let AIG, GM and all those big banks fail? If we didn't extend unemployment benifits? If there had been zero stmulus? Hard to say if that spending saved us or just bought some time.

You do know that we thrived after the 30s 40s 70s and 80s.

Last edited by USA_1; 06-30-10 at 06:50 PM.

"This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

Re: Biden: We Can't Recover All the Jobs Lost

in the sense that the drug addict 'cures' himself by getting another hit, yes.

Where would we be right now had we let AIG, GM and all those big banks fail?

better off. they would have gone into bankruptcy, which is fine.

If we didn't extend unemployment benifits

we would have fewer people unemployed

If there had been zero stmulus?

we would be much better off if we had not diverted those funds into useless pork projects, but instead let the market allocate them.

You do know that we thrived after the 30s 40s 70s and 80s.

You do know that was because we reduced federal spending and regulation after WWII, and then reduced tax rates and regulation in the 80's.

the notion that federal spending provides overal stimulus to the economy is riduculous; we should simply tax and deficit spend at 100% of GDP so that we can all be fabulously wealthy if that were the case.

Re: Biden: We Can't Recover All the Jobs Lost

in the sense that the drug addict 'cures' himself by getting another hit, yes.

better off. they would have gone into bankruptcy, which is fine.

we would have fewer people unemployed

we would be much better off if we had not diverted those funds into useless pork projects, but instead let the market allocate them.

You do know that was because we reduced federal spending and regulation after WWII, and then reduced tax rates and regulation in the 80's.

the notion that federal spending provides overal stimulus to the economy is riduculous; we should simply tax and deficit spend at 100% of GDP so that we can all be fabulously wealthy if that were the case.

That is all speculation. There is the same probablity that the nation could have fallen into a depression we could never recover from.
Massive government spending during and after WWII pulled us out of the Great Depression. After the war Americans paid higher taxes than any other time in history.
You seem to think capitalism and the free market system is perfect. It isn't. There are many countries where the government spends nothing.

Last edited by USA_1; 06-30-10 at 07:41 PM.

"This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

Re: Biden: We Can't Recover All the Jobs Lost

That is all speculation. There is the same probablity that the nation could have fallen into a depression we could never recover from.

history, common sense, and calculators teach otherwise.

Massive government spending during and after WWII pulled us out of the Great Depression. After the war Americans paid higher taxes than any other time in history.

which doesn't mean that there was higher government spending. Government spending dropped dramatically in the mid 1940's after the war was over. Government spending didn't pull us out of sh%t; the fact that the Wartime administration of FDR had a completely opposite approach to business as the "great depression" era administration plus the fact that truman rightly got rid of much of FDR's regulatory state did. Remember that we didn't fully recover until 1955.

but you are right we had taxes, we had to work off all that debt that we'd accumulated from deficit spending in the 30's and during the War. you will recall that the 30's and WWII are periods that are marked (as per your theory) as time periods of amazing economic advancement when people's standard of living increased dramatically.

You seem to think capitalism and the free market system is perfect.

nope. you need some basics for a free market to work. rule of law. enforcement of contracts. a relatively stable monetary system. a credible defense. there are 'problems of the commons, such as defense, police, pollution, etc. which the free market is ill-equipped to handle.

but for when it comes to how to grow an economy?

yeah. much better than the idea that the way to build wealth is to go into debt in order to fully fund your congresscritters latest hairbrained scheme.

Re: Biden: We Can't Recover All the Jobs Lost

Originally Posted by cpwill

history, common sense, and calculators teach otherwise.

which doesn't mean that there was higher government spending. Government spending dropped dramatically in the mid 1940's after the war was over. Government spending didn't pull us out of sh%t; the fact that the Wartime administration of FDR had a completely opposite approach to business as the "great depression" era administration plus the fact that truman rightly got rid of much of FDR's regulatory state did. Remember that we didn't fully recover until 1955.

but you are right we had taxes, we had to work off all that debt that we'd accumulated from deficit spending in the 30's and during the War. you will recall that the 30's and WWII are periods that are marked (as per your theory) as time periods of amazing economic advancement when people's standard of living increased dramatically.

nope. you need some basics for a free market to work. rule of law. enforcement of contracts. a relatively stable monetary system. a credible defense. there are 'problems of the commons, such as defense, police, pollution, etc. which the free market is ill-equipped to handle.

but for when it comes to how to grow an economy?

yeah. much better than the idea that the way to build wealth is to go into debt in order to fully fund your congresscritters latest hairbrained scheme.

Free markets and capitalism got us in this mess. It wasn't government spending. The goals of corporations to try to put competition out of business, take advantage of the cheapest labor possible, maximize profits at any cost no matter the consequences and put money over the environment and the good of the country will eventually lead to the downfall of this nation.

It was the massive government spending during WWII and after that built the foundation of industry and helped pulled us out of the recession. The problem is in good times spending should be curtailed and the debt paid down. Then when the rough times come an increase in government spending would not hurt so much. Tax hikes, not raising interest rates should be used to cool down an overheated economy and tax cuts used to get us through the bad times.

Your graph is a percent of GDP. Spending did increase because GDP grew due all the money the government threw into the economy for WWII.
World War II and all the spending had a major impact on the US economy after the war. That can not be denied. We were a totally different country.

Last edited by USA_1; 07-01-10 at 04:02 PM.

"This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB