Sugar and salt are added right to the tomatoes. everything else is combined in a bowl with enough water to wet everything and microwaved on power level 3 for 2 minutes, then added to the tomatoes.

I have all the ingredients now, but might have problems trying to scale all the ingredients down to add to one can of the Classico crushed tomatoes and one can of the 6 in 1. Should I just add other ingredients for the taste test for market Tuesday? What do other members think I should do? I will do a blind taste tests with different taste testers.

I have all the ingredients now, but might have problems trying to scale all the ingredients down to add to one can of the Classico crushed tomatoes and one can of the 6 in 1. Should I just add other ingredients for the taste test for market Tuesday? What do other members think I should do? I will do a blind taste tests with different taste testers.

Norma,

It isn't entirely clear to me what you want to do. Do you want to combine one small 28-ounce can of the Classico crushed tomatoes with one small 28-ounce can of 6-in-1s and scale the seasonings mix down to an amount for the two cans, or do you want to scale the seasonings mix down to one can only, possibly to be able to do side-by-side comparisons of the two final sauces?

It isn't entirely clear to me what you want to do. Do you want to combine one small 28-ounce can of the Classico crushed tomatoes with one small 28-ounce can of 6-in-1s and scale the seasonings mix down to an amount for the two cans, or do you want to scale the seasonings mix down to one can only, possibly to be able to do side-by-side comparisons of the two final sauces?

Peter

Peter,

I only have one can of 6-in-1s (28 oz) on hand right now, and I wanted to do a comparison to Steveís recipe for tomato sauce he uses for the big can of 6-in-1s with both the Classico crushed tomatoes (28 oz.) and the 6-in-1ís, for a side by side comparison how they might differ or taste the same using his recipe for ingredients added scaled down. I would think that would be a tall order to get all the amounts of ingredients scaled down for the seasoning mix for 1 can only.

I could wait until I can purchase some more cans of 6-in-1s so it might not be so difficult to do the comparisons.

The large can of 6-in-1s that Steve has weighs (6 x 16) + 9 = 105 ounces. If you want to scale down Steve's seasonings mix for one 28-ounce can of tomatoes, whether they are 6-in-1s or the Classico crushed tomatoes, you would use 28/105 = 0.267 times of the amounts of the individual ingredients of Steve's seasonings mix. Since Steve gave most of the ingredients of the seasonings mix by volume rather than weight, you are likely to end up with some odd volume numbers for the scaled down amounts. For example, 0.267 x 1/2 teaspoon = 0.1335 teaspoon. How do you measure that?

I think the better approach is to convert all of Steve's ingredients specified by volumes to weights and then calculate the percents of all of the ingredients relative to the weight of the tomatoes in the large can of 6-in-1s (much like baker's percents relative to flour). Of course, to do this, you would need to have a digital scale that can measure small amounts of lightweight ingredients like herbs. You would also want to know if Steve measured out the volume measurements of his ingredients as heaping measuring spoons or level measuring spoons. But, once you get the weights of all of the ingredients in the seasonings mix, you can calculate the total weight and, for one 28-ounce can of tomatoes, you would uses 0.267 times that weight. You might be able to use a regular scale to measure out that amount. Of course, you would have a fair amount of the seasonings mix left over. But, that is not necessarily bad. The seasonings mix should be usable for several experiments, including those used for the Classico crushed tomatoes for side-by-side tests. The advantage of using the baker's percent approach is that you can use those numbers relative to any amount of tomatoes, from a thimbleful to a trailer car amount.

BTW, you might also ask Steve what form the oregano, basil and thyme take in his mix. Are they leaf or ground? And does he measure out the herbs right out of their respective bottles or does he pulverize them in any way, as between the fingers? Some herbs are quite potent and can throw off a sauce if used in a ground form rather than a leaf form.

The large can of 6-in-1s that Steve has weighs (6 x 16) + 9 = 105 ounces. If you want to scale down Steve's seasonings mix for one 28-ounce can of tomatoes, whether they are 6-in-1s or the Classico crushed tomatoes, you would use 28/105 = 0.267 times of the amounts of the individual ingredients of Steve's seasonings mix. Since Steve gave most of the ingredients of the seasonings mix by volume rather than weight, you are likely to end up with some odd volume numbers for the scaled down amounts. For example, 0.267 x 1/2 teaspoon = 0.1335 teaspoon. How do you measure that?

I think the better approach is to convert all of Steve's ingredients specified by volumes to weights and then calculate the percents of all of the ingredients relative to the weight of the tomatoes in the large can of 6-in-1s (much like baker's percents relative to flour). Of course, to do this, you would need to have a digital scale that can measure small amounts of lightweight ingredients like herbs. You would also want to know if Steve measured out the volume measurements of his ingredients as heaping measuring spoons or level measuring spoons. But, once you get the weights of all of the ingredients in the seasonings mix, you can calculate the total weight and, for one 28-ounce can of tomatoes, you would uses 0.267 times that weight. You might be able to use a regular scale to measure out that amount. Of course, you would have a fair amount of the seasonings mix left over. But, that is not necessarily bad. The seasonings mix should be usable for several experiments, including those used for the Classico crushed tomatoes for side-by-side tests. The advantage of using the baker's percent approach is that you can use those numbers relative to any amount of tomatoes, from a thimbleful to a trailer car amount.

BTW, you might also ask Steve what form the oregano, basil and thyme take in his mix. Are they leaf or ground? And does he measure out the herbs right out of their respective bottles or does he pulverize them in any way, as between the fingers? Some herbs are quite potent and can throw off a sauce if used in a ground form rather than a leaf form.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for doing the calculations! I didnít even think about Steve giving me most of the ingredients of he seasonings mix by volume rather than weight. I can understand that I would most likely end up with some odd volume numbers for the scaled down amounts. I know I couldnít measure 0.1335 teaspoon.

I will ask Steve how he measures and what form of the oregano, basil and thyme he uses in his mix, and if he does pulverize them in any way. I can understand some herbs are quite potent. I probably didnít purchase the same brands of herbs Steve uses either.

I can understand that the better approach would be to convert all of Steveís ingredients by volumes to weights and then calculate the percents of all of the ingredients relative to the weight of the tomatoes in the large can of 6-in-1s.

I think a more reliable taste test is to just open the cans of tomatoes and compare the products as they are. That's how I test, all I'm interested in is finding the best tomatoes. Too many variables come into play when you add seasonings.

I think a more reliable taste test is to just open the cans of tomatoes and compare the products as they are. That's how I test, all I'm interested in is finding the best tomatoes. Too many variables come into play when you add seasonings.

dmcavanagh,

I agree with you that a more reliable taste test is just to open the cans of tomatoes and compare the products as there are. I like herbs added to my sauces though, and I already know I like Steveís sauce plain or on a pizza the way he makes it with makes it with herbs and other ingredients. I guess I might be going about the comparisons in the wrong ways.

I probably didnít purchase the same brands of herbs Steve uses either.

Norma,

It did occur to me to mention the brands issue but it is highly unlikely that everyone would have all of the brands of herbs, garlic and onion powders, etc., that Steve used. There are also expensive herbs of perhaps the highest quality (maybe like the Penzeys products) and off-brand versions sold in dollar stores and the like that are cheap and of somewhat dubious quality. Plus, some people plant and dry their own herbs. As a result of these variances, and also the ones mentioned earlier, no two people are likely to end up with the same seasonings blend. So, some tweaking may be needed to meet specific tastes. In your case, so long as you are consistent you should have no trouble conducting side-by-side tests using the Classico ground tomatoes and the 6-in-1s.

Of course, as Dave mentions, you could keep things simple and just use plain tomatoes without much more, and I believe that that is the best way to conduct side-by-side tests of tomato brands, but there are people who like a lot of herbs and other items in their sauces. Once you do your comparison tests using Steve's seasonings mix, at some point you might well try just plain tomatoes in side-by-side tests. The results of the two sets of tests should be quite instructive and give you a pretty good idea as to what your customers and taste testers prefer on the types of pizzas that you make and sell at market.

It did occur to me to mention the brands issue but it is highly unlikely that everyone would have all of the brands of herbs, garlic and onion powders, etc., that Steve used. There are also expensive herbs of perhaps the highest quality (maybe like the Penzeys products) and off-brand versions sold in dollar stores and the like that are cheap and of somewhat dubious quality. Plus, some people plant and dry their own herbs. As a result of these variances, and also the ones mentioned earlier, no two people are likely to end up with the same seasonings blend. So, some tweaking may be needed to meet specific tastes. In your case, so long as you are consistent you should have no trouble conducting side-by-side tests using the Classico ground tomatoes and the 6-in-1s.

Of course, as Dave mentions, you could keep things simple and just use plain tomatoes without much more, and I believe that that is the best way to conduct side-by-side tests of tomato brands, but there are people who like a lot of herbs and other items in their sauces. Once you do your comparison tests using Steve's seasonings mix, at some point you might well try just plain tomatoes in side-by-side tests. The results of the two sets of tests should be quite instructive and give you a pretty good idea as to what your customers and taste testers prefer on the types of pizzas that you make and sell at market.

Peter

Peter,

I know everyone probably wonít have access to the same herbs, garlic and onion powder and so forth, that Steve uses. I bought all new herbs yesterday at the Country Store and I donít even know what brands they are. I bought new ones so they would taste fresh. What a wallop to the pocketbook just for herbs and powders and such.

I have tried many kinds of tomato products so far, and also have microwaved herbs and other ingredients for different sauces, made Lesí sauce with fresh tomatoes and herbs (with 6-in-1's and Walmart Great Value crushed tomatoes), tried pizza sauces plain just by taste testing them, tried different pastes and sauces on different Mackís attempts and by what I have learned so far is most plain pastes or tomato sauces donít taste the same when tasted plain and the taste of the sauces or pastes changes somehow when it is blended with cheese or cheeses on different baked pizzas.

These are some of the reasons I first would like to do the taste test comparisons with Novemberís #2 sauce first. I know I already like his sauce plain and on different styles of pizzas.

I could let customers or other taste testers taste plain sauce or plain sauces baked on pizzas at another time, like Dave suggested.

I was aware of November's work on his sauces but, as we know from the Mellow Mushroom thread, Steve has an apparently incurable tendency to change ingredients and quantities, usually without warning . So, I wasn't sure exactly how he came up with his particular seasonings mix.

The thread where November posted his findings, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3735.msg31158.html#msg31158, makes for a very interesting read in my opinion. Apparently others have come to the same conclusion. Over 49,000 page views is a lot for a sauce. At least November posted tangible results, unlike the Shakey's sauce thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,518.0.html where people are apparently still trying to replicate that sauce, at least as they recall it, after 97,206 page views to date . That thread is #9 in the top ten topics on the forum by page views, and the only sauce thread in that list. So, tomatoes and sauces are important to our members. That makes the Classico tomato products important ones to examine as possible substitutes for the 6-in-1s.

I was aware of November's work on his sauces but, as we know from the Mellow Mushroom thread, Steve has an apparently incurable tendency to change ingredients and quantities, usually without warning . So, I wasn't sure exactly how he came up with his particular seasonings mix.

The thread where November posted his findings, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3735.msg31158.html#msg31158 makes for a very interesting read in my opinion. Apparently others have come to the same conclusion. Over 49,000 page views is a lot for a sauce. At least November posted tangible results, unlike the Shakey's sauce thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,518.0.html where people are apparently still trying to replicate that sauce, at least as they recall it, after 97,206 page views to date . That thread is #9 in the top ten topics on the forum by page views, and the only sauce thread in that list. So, tomatoes and sauces are important to our members. That makes the Classico tomato products important ones to examine as possible substitutes for the 6-in-1s.

Peter

Peter,

My taste testers have tasted Steveís modified Novemberís sauce and they all do really like it on different pizzas. I donít know how Steve calculated what he uses, but Steveís modified Novemberís sauce is good. I never tried those ingredients in a sauce before. Poor Steve, I donít want to raze him too much about the Mellow Mushroom thread or how he came about his modified sauce, or I will be in for trouble on Tuesday. I will wait and see if he sees these posts and answers.

I think that the thread where November posted his #2 sauce is also a good read, but didnít look at the page views before. That is a lot of page views for a sauce. I wonder how many members have tried Novemberís #2 sauce. I never tried to replicate Shakeyís sauce and never looked at those page views either. I can understand that sauces and tomatoes are important to members. I can understand that as more members try different approaches with the Classico products, this thread will also probably become important. I am also interested in what other members try on the Classico products because they are easily available to most members, or might be.

That is entirely up to you. However, there are a few advantages to using November's ingredients as given in Reply 7 referenced above. First, you can use volume measurements for the herbs and spices and scale them using the "vu" method (note that vu = 1/8 teaspoon for a 28-ounce can application). That makes it unnecessary to do any volume to weight conversions. Second, as November noted in the Reply 7 post, there is no need to do a large batch and divide it (as I earlier mentioned but may be unavoidable with Steve's seasonings mix), which may lead to uneven distribution. Third, November's seasonings mix is already predicated on using a single 28-ounce can of tomatoes. So, you don't have to scale down from a large can of tomates. As long as you can weigh out the sucrose (sugar), salt, and the garlic and onion powders and can handle the vu math, you are on your way.

I don't see any reason why you can't try both November's seasonings mix and Steve's also. Maybe that can form the basis for another side-by-side test.

Steve has an apparently incurable tendency to change ingredients and quantities, usually without warning Laugh. So, I wasn't sure exactly how he came up with his particular seasonings mix.

That's me all over!

Hmmm.... interesting to come across a thread with my name all over it. Looking forward to Tuesday.

I too, think that a comparison between tomatoes would be best done plain, at least to start, but let me also say that knowing Norma as I do, I've long since stopped wondering why she does what she does. Let me just explain how I came up with the amounts that I use. When I first came to this site, I knew absolutely nothing about making pizza. So, when I found Novembers #2 sauce recipe, I thought it looked interesting enough but maybe a little too herb heavy for a 28 oz. can of tomatoes. Further, since I could only find the large size cans of 6in1, I simply doubled the recipe and applied it to the larger can, which is equal to 3.75 of the 28 oz. cans, giving me a suitable dilution, for my taste. FYI, I use mostly plain old McCormick herbs in crushed leaf form,not powder ground. Also,to be honest, from time to time I've run out of an item or two and simply omitted them from the sauce and ya know what? I never missed them. , so............

That is entirely up to you. However, there are a few advantages to using November's ingredients as given in Reply 7 referenced above. First, you can use volume measurements for the herbs and spices and scale them using the "vu" method (note that vu = 1/8 teaspoon for a 28-ounce can application). That makes it unnecessary to do any volume to weight conversions. Second, as November noted in the Reply 7 post, there is no need to do a large batch and divide it (as I earlier mentioned but may be unavoidable with Steve's seasonings mix), which may lead to uneven distribution. Third, November's seasonings mix is already predicated on using a single 28-ounce can of tomatoes. So, you don't have to scale down from a large can of tomates. As long as you can weigh out the sucrose (sugar), salt, and the garlic and onion powders and can handle the vu math, you are on your way.

I don't see any reason why you can't try both November's seasonings mix and Steve's also. Maybe that can form the basis for another side-by-side test.

Peter

Peter,

I will first try Novemberís ingredients as given in Reply7 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3735.msg32136.html#msg32136 I have small mini-measuring spoons so I should be able to handle the math, using the ďvuĒ method. I saw Novemberís seasonings mix is already predicated on using a single 28-once can of tomatoes (like Classico). The only ingredient I am not to sure of adding is the salt, because November posted to use a tomato product with no salt added for his recipe. Do you think I should add any salt or just start out with no salt? I see the salt is the last ingredient added in the Classico crushed tomatoes, but donít know how much salt that is. If Novemberís recipe works out okay, with the Classico crushed tomatoes and the 6-in-1s, then I could move on to doing experiments with Steveís modified Novemberís mix also. First I would need to purchase more of the small cans of 6-in-1s to do more experiments.

Hmmm.... interesting to come across a thread with my name all over it. Looking forward to Tuesday.

I too, think that a comparison between tomatoes would be best done plain, at least to start, but let me also say that knowing Norma as I do, I've long since stopped wondering why she does what she does. Let me just explain how I came up with the amounts that I use. When I first came to this site, I knew absolutely nothing about making pizza. So, when I found Novembers #2 sauce recipe, I thought it looked interesting enough but maybe a little too herb heavy for a 28 oz. can of tomatoes. Further, since I could only find the large size cans of 6in1, I simply doubled the recipe and applied it to the larger can, which is equal to 3.75 of the 28 oz. cans, giving me a suitable dilution, for my taste. FYI, I use mostly plain old McCormick herbs in crushed leaf form,not powder ground. Also,to be honest, from time to time I've run out of an item or two and simply omitted them from the sauce and ya know what? I never missed them. , so............

Steve,

I am glad you posted that is you all over, and it wasnít me that posted that. I know you donít take final dough temperatures or do other things the way I do, and somehow you must have ďnatural instinctsĒ on how things work out well, because all your pizzas and ways you do things do work well for you. I guess it must be the Sicilian in you.

As you already now, I am the experimenter, and always asking questions as why things donít work out, even though I try to do things the textbook ways. I guess it is in my DNA that I love to experiment to see what happens. I donít think you will ever be able to figure me out. I guess I am just crazy in experimenting. You always tell me to let things alone that they are good enough already, and I am always saying I need to do one more experiment to see if something stays the same.

Thanks for posting how you came about your modified formula for Novemberís sauce, based on your tastes and the larger can of 6-in-1s. I appreciate you also telling what brand of herbs you use. At least what I purchased in some of the ingredients was the crushed leaf form of herbs.

I didnít mean to be talking behind your back, and knew you would eventually come across what I was posting about.

Hope the test testing goes okay Tuesday. If not, then it is back to the drawing board, like always.

I will first try Novemberís ingredients as given in Reply7 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3735.msg32136.html#msg32136 I have small mini-measuring spoons so I should be able to handle the math, using the ďvuĒ method. I saw Novemberís seasonings mix is already predicated on using a single 28-once can of tomatoes (like Classico). The only ingredient I am not to sure of adding is the salt, because November posted to use a tomato product with no salt added for his recipe. Do you think I should add any salt or just start out with no salt? I see the salt is the last ingredient added in the Classico crushed tomatoes, but donít know how much salt that is. If Novemberís recipe works out okay, with the Classico crushed tomatoes and the 6-in-1s, then I could move on to doing experiments with Steveís modified Novemberís mix also. First I would need to purchase more of the small cans of 6-in-1s to do more experiments.

Norma,

A 28-ounce can of tomatoes is 794 grams. A serving size for either the Classico crushed tomatoes or the 6-in-1s is 110 grams (this is not true of all types of tomatoes but is quite common as a serving size for canned tomatoes). So, there are 794/110 = 7.218 servings of tomatoes in the cans (labels usually round this out to "about 7" servings). Each serving of the Classico ground tomatoes has 200mg of sodium. So, for the entire can, there are 7.2182 x 200 = 1443.64mg of sodium. That is equivalent to 1443.64/2325 = 0.621 teaspoons of salt, or a bit less than 5/8 teaspoon for the whole can. By contrast, the 6-in-1s have 180mg of sodium per serving, or 1299.24mg for the entire can, or about 0.56 teaspoon of salt. This is between 1/2-5/8 teaspoon. As you can see, the salt differences in the two brands of tomatoes are slight. How packers state the sodium content on their labels is strictly regulated by the FDA, presumably because of the health issues that are implicated with salt. So, the FDA has tight rounding factors for sodium that prevent food processors from making it sound like there is less sodium in their products than there actually is. For example, if the sodium content of a given product contains less than 5mg sodium, it can be reported as 0. Between 5 and 140mg, the sodium is reported to the nearest 5mg increment. If the sodium content is greater than 140mg (which is the case with the two types of tomatoes being discussed here), the sodium is reported to the nearest 10mg increment. So, as you can see, the sodium content reported for the Classico and 6-in-1 tomatoes are quite accurate. The same type of strict rules apply to fats, and especially trans fats, and cholesterol, all because of their health implications.

November's Sauce #2 calls for 7 grams of salt. That converts to about 0.2469 ounces, or about 1.254 teaspoons of salt, or a bit over 1 1/4 teaspoons. That is for standard table salt. So, in your case, to adjust the salt levels in the final sauce, you would reduce the amount of salt in Sauce #2 by about 5/8 teaspoon when using the Classico tomatoes and by between 1/2-5/8 teaspoon when using the 6-in-1s. If you simply take away 1/2 teaspoon of salt from the amount stated in Sauce #2, you will not notice the difference.

A 28-ounce can of tomatoes is 794 grams. A serving size for either the Classico crushed tomatoes or the 6-in-1s is 110 grams (this is not true of all types of tomatoes but is quite common as a serving size for canned tomatoes). So, there are 794/110 = 7.218 servings of tomatoes in the cans (labels usually round this out to "about 7" servings). Each serving of the Classico ground tomatoes has 200mg of sodium. So, for the entire can, there are 7.2182 x 200 = 1443.64mg of sodium. That is equivalent to 1443.64/2325 = 0.621 teaspoons of salt, or a bit less than 5/8 teaspoon for the whole can. By contrast, the 6-in-1s have 180mg of sodium per serving, or 1299.24mg for the entire can, or about 0.56 teaspoon of salt. This is between 1/2-5/8 teaspoon. As you can see, the salt differences in the two brands of tomatoes are slight. How packers state the sodium content on their labels is strictly regulated by the FDA, presumably because of the health issues that are implicated with salt. So, the FDA has tight rounding factors for sodium that prevent food processors from making it sound like there is less sodium in their products than there actually is. For example, if the sodium content of a given product contains less than 5mg sodium, it can be reported as 0. Between 5 and 140mg, the sodium is reported to the nearest 5mg increment. If the sodium content is greater than 140mg (which is the case with the two types of tomatoes being discussed here), the sodium is reported to the nearest 10mg increment. So, as you can see, the sodium content reported for the Classico and 6-in-1 tomatoes are quite accurate. The same type of strict rules apply to fats, and especially trans fats, and cholesterol, all because of their health implications.

November's Sauce #2 calls for 7 grams of salt. That converts to about 0.2469 ounces, or about 1.254 teaspoons of salt, or a bit over 1 1/4 teaspoons. That is for standard table salt. So, in your case, to adjust the salt levels in the final sauce, you would reduce the amount of salt in Sauce #2 by about 5/8 teaspoon when using the Classico tomatoes and by between 1/2-5/8 teaspoon when using the 6-in-1s. If you simply take away 1/2 teaspoon of salt from the amount stated in Sauce #2, you will not notice the difference.

And there you have it.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for doing the calculations for the Classico crushed tomatoes and the 6-in-1s to show how much sodium is in each product. I can see that the differences in the two brands of tomatoes are slight. I didnít know before that the FDA has tight rounding factors for sodium, but can understand why because of health implications.

I will take your recommendations in reducing the salt in the Classico crushed tomatoes and the 6-in-1s.

Well, if you must know, I was so tried from running my granddaughter around that I fell asleep right after dinner last evening. You know I told you she broke her hand it that car accident. I was up for a few hours and then went back to sleep. If you look at my posts from last evening, you will see there weren't any posts from me. No posts in the evening is highly unusual for me.

I mixed Novemberís #2 sauce according to his directions. For the first test I used 18 grams of water to add to the herbs & spices. That wasnít enough water, after being microwaved above 160 degrees F. I used 28 grams of water for the second microwaving and that seemed to be enough, but might use a little more water in the future. I used my digital thermometer to measure the temperature right after microwaving.

It seems like this is a lot of herbs and spices for a 28 oz. can, but after it is microwaved becomes like a paste if I followed directions right.

I opened cans of Classico crushed tomatoes and the 6-in-1s and gave them a quick taste test before any ingredients were added. I donít know if my taste buds were fooling me or not, but the Classico crushed tomatoes seemed a tad bit sweeter than the 6-in-1s, but both tasted almost identical in all other ways.

These are the pictures of the process and the one spice & herb mixture I didnít add enough water before microwaving. The spices and herbs picture didnít have the oregano on the picture, but I forgot to put it on the table before taking the picture.

I tasted Novemberís #2 sauce in both tomatoes products right after everything was mixed and they both tasted good. I will wait until at least 6 hrs today and again tomorrow to see how they both taste again.

Norma, For what it's worth, I always run my 6in1s though my blender a bit when I prepare my sauce. ( the neighbor kid doesn't like chunky sauce), and maybe you shouldn't use plastic containers in the microwave?

Well, if you must know, I was so tried from running my granddaughter around that I fell asleep right after dinner last evening. You know I told you she broke her hand it that car accident. I was up for a few hours and then went back to sleep. If you look at my posts from last evening, you will see there weren't any posts from me. No posts in the evening is highly unusual for me.