These are all great players. It has never been common for a superstar player to play for only one team. Also, before free agency, a player had no choice where they could play. So how is that loyalty if a player cannot leave anyway?

i think i agree with you to an extent (the FA era ??? ) but like you showed us, there are obviously players who are loyal to single teams throughout their careers. and you even inspired me into thinking about all sorts of stuff that i hate about "old-schoolers" i was gonna post it in here but i thought it wouldnt be cool to mess up your thread like that.

so i'm gonna go make my own angry little thread about how bad old-schoolers suck !!!

[size=10]Manny Ramirez....$20 million
Pedro Martinez....$17.5 million
Curt Schilling...$12 million (and a $2 million bonus)
Never hearing a Yankee fan chant 1918 again...priceless. [/size]

There is no evidence to suggest that this is going happen. I gues it is possible but there has to be a fundamental change to the game.

Right now pitchers like Mulder, Hudson, Sabathia, and Oswalt are having starts of careers that can lead to 300 wins. Again winning 300 games has NEVER been common. The 1980s saw an unusally high number of 300 game winners for one decade.

These six pitchers won 300 in a span of eight years. This gave the impression that this has happened throught out history. It has not.

Lefty Grove won his 300th game in 1941. No one won 300 for 22 years until Early Winn won his 300th in 1963.

Time after time "baseball experts" argue that the five man rotation, the drop in complete games, modern reliever, yada, yada, yada. However two pitchers that started their careers in the 1980s and pitched exclusively in the five-man rotation have reached 300 wins.

Last edited by LCBOY on Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

The game has changed so it will be much more difficult for pitchers to win 300 games anymore. They are babied so much. Even with those players that you listed, you can't dispute that there are more players changing teams than earlier in the century.

Lofunzo wrote:The game has changed so it will be much more difficult for pitchers to win 300 games anymore. They are babied so much.

It's always been difficult to win 300 games. However it will be continued to be by pitchers that possess a combination of amazing talent, good health, and a long career. Weren't Clemens and Maddux part of the generation of pitchers that were "babied"?

Lofunzo wrote:Even with those players that you listed, you can't dispute that there are more players changing teams than earlier in the century.

I can't dispute it? How do you know there is more player movement?

Well, depending on where you look, a form of free agency either started in 1931 or after the 1969 season (Flood). It would seem quite obvious that there would be less player movement without free agency. Do you really think that I wouldn't be able to find a list of players from an older generation to match your current list??

LCBOY wrote:

Lofunzo wrote:The game has changed so it will be much more difficult for pitchers to win 300 games anymore. They are babied so much.

It's always been difficult to win 300 games. However it will be continued to be by pitchers that possess a combination of amazing talent, good health, and a long career. Weren't Clemens and Maddux part of the generation of pitchers that were "babied"?

Comparing the babying of pitchers from when they started until now is night and day. Now, if a pitcher gets a quality start, they all applaud. The specialization of the bullpen is making a lot of starters go less and less innings.

Last edited by Lofunzo on Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lofunzo wrote:The game has changed so it will be much more difficult for pitchers to win 300 games anymore. They are babied so much.

It's always been difficult to win 300 games. However it will be continued to be by pitchers that possess a combination of amazing talent, good health, and a long career. Weren't Clemens and Maddux part of the generation of pitchers that were "babied"?

I'd say "no". By the time pitchers really started getting babied, Clemens and Maddux were already big name veterans and basically controlled how many innings they went on their own.

Don't mind me though, just thought I'd toss my two pennies out there on that particular part of the subject.

Yes doctor, I am sick.Sick of those who are spineless.Sick of those who feel self-entitled.Sick of those who are hypocrites.Yes doctor, an army is forming.Yes doctor, there will be a war.Yes doctor, there will be blood.....