Martin juggles defence without Markov

While the Canadiens await word on Andrei Markov’s condition, head coach Jacques Martin has juggled his defence pairings in preparation for Tuesday night’s home game against the Philadelphia Flyers.

P.K. Subban will play with Alexandre Picard, while Hal Gill is teamed with Josh Gorges. The Roman Hamrlik-Jaroslav Spacek duo remains unchanged.

The official word from the Canadiens Monday is that Markov suffered a lower body injury when he collided knee-to-knee with Eric Staal in the latter stages of Saturday’s 7-2 win over Carolina. He is scheduled to undergo further tests and the team says it will be several days before the exact nature of the injury is known.

Doesn’t look that way to me, that he put his knee forward. It all happens very quickly, and I don’t see anything intentional about it, sorry. From reading the posts the last few days, I know I am in the minority on this one, but I will not be swayed.

With Markov gone, more responsibility will fall on Subban’s shoulders and the rookie is easily up to the challenge. However, that will make him even more of a target than he already is. Markov at his best didn’t seem to attract the same kind of attention that PK does from forwards eager to slam him any way they can. But then Subban plays with much more exuberance than Markov does and is certainly more vocal in getting in the other players’ faces. He would benefit in the long run if we were to adjust his on-ice attitude which seems to have a knack for inciting others to try to foul him. They appear to make an extra effort to ‘finish their check’ when coming up against him.Star players, I realize, get that sort of treatment but the wiser ones are adept at not adding to the frequency of the attacks by their volubility and chippiness, especially after the whistle has blown.Subban at this stage is far from being a Scott Niedermayer, whose superior skating ability and hockey savvy translated into a long and productive career. His play, in retrospection, seemed relatively free of generating undue friction with opposing players. Subban has the makings of being every bit as accomplished as Niedermayer, but he needs to show consistently that he can remain level-headed in the face of provocation.No doubt PK will be tested often tomorrow night against the Flyers, just as he was in the playoffs last season. He can demonstrate how much he has grown as a player by sticking to his game and not getting sidetracked by the Carcillos of the world.

Habs fans are quick to attack an opposition player when something like this happens. I didn’t see the incident as a “hit” when it occured. It looked more like Staal was trying to avoid contact with Markov by sidestepping him and going around him. There was indeed contact between Staal’s knee and a part of Markov’s leg (could have been the knee, actually hard to see that in the video), but the contact didn’t look intentional to me. A collision. Plain and simple. We assume it was Markov’s knee by the way he reacted, and by the way he would not put weight on it when leaving the ice. The reaction could have meant “$@*#, not my knee again, or it could have meant “$@*#, not another injury (period)”. It could be the ankle was twisted when he went down. We are all just guessing. We’ll know when the club makes the official announcement, though we all fear, and are bracing, for the worst. The fact that nobody went after Staal kind of solidfies the argument that it was an accidental collision. The Habs are not gutless, and they don’t need a goon. We tried that, and it didn’t work out so well.

I’ve followed the Habs since the mid 70’s and can say that I might miss watching 2 games a season these days… In the past ten years, it would have been healther for me to maybe watch 2 instead of the other way around…

Here are some observations…

- we are playing a “team” game

- we have depth

- Price is playing closer to his potential

- Pleks and the other vets seem to enjoy playing here

- say what you will about Gomez’s contract, but don’t ignore the many great plays he makes (not so much offensively but on the defensive side of the puck)… More games than not, he makes some great plays on the PK and in our own half of center…

- we are not automatically out of game if we give up the first goal of a game

- We press even when we have the lead… we don’t “sit back” and try to protect one goal leads for half the game… Carolina game and the Bruins game last week are great examples…

- we are not completely screwed in one of our top players gets injured…

- Eller is going to be a good one… And he does not have the weight of the world on his shoulders to prove that… Too many times in the past 15 years, we “rushed” any kid with potential to be the next great Hab…

- And lastly we are getting solid coaching. I’m surprised how few comments there are about the great job Martin is doing. He has had a calming influence on this team and you can see how it has carried through from last year… People slag Martin because of his “defense first” approach… Funny thing is this team is playing a really nice transition and skating game now…. Regardless, I hope Martin keeps up the great work he is doing…

yes,matt carle. The one guy who has probably missed more time over the last 2 years then markov. The guy gets constantly hurt at the ahl level,what happens when he plays against the big boys? For a guy who constantly says he knows everything about the dogs cause you see some live games,you really don’t have much of a clue.

I think I know more than most about hockey and believe my opinions are almost always reasonable and thought out.-manapart.

As for every team, I do not think given he just came off a serious knee injury and who knows for sure what his status will be plus the fact he is UFA end of this season, that there would be that much interest “right now”.

He’s spent 7 of the last 13 months recuperating from injuries, I’d be a little ****ing cautious about getting hurt after that, anyone would. In terms of style of play, thinking the game and such, in his last few games he was exactly the same kind defencemen he always was, a skating defencemen.

Why is everyone so mad at Staal?? It was a weird play with a freak injury. Staals leg was up in the air, how did it have enough force to injure Marky like that?? It was Markov who caused the collision, he wasn’t even looking at the puck and it was bouncing away from him off the boards which is why Staal tried to jump around him. Anyone questioning character on the team beacause no one went after Staal needs to watch the play again. I know it sucks that he’s out, but no need to start questioning anyone for standing up for teammates or calling to start bringing in some goons. I think Markov’s play since he’s come back and this injury clearly indicate that he came back wayyyyyy too soon.

Although Pleks and Price have been stellar all year and prob are just as good as markov and their loss might hurt just as much, I still think markov is the most important player. Markov eats so many mins and helps round out the d, he also runs the pp better than (in my opinion) any other d man in the league. This past week shows why he is so important. Spacek played his 3 best games of the year and so did the team. Our d looked even better and with Markov we are a cup contending team. Without him we are still a good team just aren`t at that elite level of the nhl with washington and those teams.

Ummmmmm…..EVERYONE!!! I can think of 29 teams that would give us A LOT for him right now. It’s only because we have Subban that I say we might think of trading him. Subban is jumping up into a group of only about 4 or 5 Dmen that can play like that, Markov included, which means a lot of teams want a guy like that.

Not to compare my story to markov but it may give hope to some. I broke my ankle a couple of years ago pretty badly, I had to have it surgically repaired and had a metal plate put in. Anyways I recovered and everything was fine until this summer I once again somehow messed up the same ankle. Based on the pain and how it felt I was certain I had broken it once again, it was painful and I couldn’t walk. Yet I went in for an x-ray and although the pain was extreme and it felt broken it wasn’t. In fact because the plate it made a small injury feel much worse. Within 2 weeks I was walking fine and within a month it was back to 100%. This may not be the case with markov but you never know, maybe something from his surgery made it hurt a lot more and feel a lot worse but for all we know he could be back in a month.

If not then I say bring weber up, he has 7 goals in 11 games in the ahl and has chemistry with PK. He isn’t the best defensive dman but I think him and subban can run a solid pp. If anything put weber on the 4th line and let him play mainly pp time. This can also help limit spacek’s time on the ice and maybe help him out.

I think we all need to take a page from Carey’s book “and just chill out”. We don’t even know how severe the problem is. Why not get the info first and go from there? He might only be out a week or two. If he’s out long-term, we’ll re-examine the situation at that time. For now, we have Picard (who played well for us at the begining of the year) to fill in the opending on D.

That’s why he didn’t put his knee forward. If you look at the replay, that leg is not even on the ice so he clearly had no weight on it, anyone trying to hurt someone would make sure that knee would be their strongest point right? I’m way more angry at Markov for even getting hurt on a play like that, just like the Cooke hit.

I agree completely. The days of needing Markov to be a contending team are gone, Sid the kid will back me up on that one! You hate to lose a guy like that but we’ve been losing him a lot lately and managing OK when P.K’s been here. I’d entertain the thought of trading Markov. Imagine what you could get for him!! Could really secure a great future going along with everyone that’s already locked up for long term deals.

I was at the game Saturday (so high up we could almost see into the press box ), and was totally impressed with Subban’s poise. A couple things stick out: on a 2 on 1, he rode the shooter to the outside, into the boards and calmly scooped up the puck; during a line change, he was killing time in his own end, turned the forechecker inside out, and drew a penalty as he was just about to build up a head of steam. That’s an awful lot of poise ‘n’ hockey sense for a rookie. And I absolutely LOVE how the fans at the Bell Centre react to him.

Further … does anyone remember the Nervous Nellie who scored an own goal when his goalie went off on a delayed penalty? For those who think that Martin is death on young players, they should have a look at Subban and Gorges. Montreal has a solid defensive core even without Markov, and much of the growth we’ve seen has been on Martin’s watch.

Martin’s not my favourite coach. But, at the end of the day, he KNOWS hockey. He doesn’t let his emotions carry him away. He doesn’t rip his players. He doesn’t vent to the press. He has, instead, calmed the team down from the turmoil at the end of 2009. And he’s crafted a team that is far better than the sum of its parts which is, at the end of the day, a reliable indicator of a quality coach.

Kaberle is soft on defence and I think he may have spent his best years in Toronto already, people complaining about Markov not showing up in the playoffs… Kaberle isn’t exactly going to be great playing in his own end at any time, if he even remembers how to step it up for the playoffs.

Why are you worried about this team at all? As good as Halak was in the playoffs last year, it was not all him. That was just how our healthy team can play. Don’t worry about beating Washington, we usually do because they don’t play hockey, they have a skills competition every night. Philly will be on a back to backer tomorrow so I’d say we should win that one. I’d like to play Boston and Philly where both teams are rested and playing their best, I think we’d stack up pretty good, Philly scares me a little more than the B’s though.

I know what I’m going to say may offend some Habs fans, but I say we trade off Hammer and a 2nd rounder to the leafs for Kaberle and don’t resign markov. Kaberle can pass just as well as Markov, but isn’t as injury prone as he is right now. Kable to set up PK Subban would be awesome. Plus we would probably have the best player from the leafs.

Markov 31 yrs old 5.75M

GP-623 G-81 A -285 PTS -366

Kaberle 32yrs old Cap hit 4.25M

GP -836 G-80 A-409 PTS -489

“To you from failing hands we throw the torch. Be it yours to hold high.”

It looks like Webber is pretty much Maxwell on D, which means he’s completely useless to us. Don’t thing he’ll ever be ready for a steady spot in this league. I’d rather see Carle called up to see if he can play a little bit like he did at the beginning of last year for us, which was the complete opposite of how he played in preseason where he stunk it up big time. Anyone been watching the Dogs this year? How’s he been playing?

Jeezus, what’s with all these called for Weber? He is a poor man’s version of Mark Streit. Just cause he is in our system doesn’t mean he needs to play for the Habs. Hey, just like OB he was here, he had his chance and he spectacularly failed. Habs need to get tougher on D. If Markov is done for a season or the bigger part of the season then I am sure the current troops including Picard, can hold the fort while PG (gasp) is trying to make a trade.

On the other hand, they can save time, skip the formalities and just sign MAB. Eventually it’s going to happen anyway, so why all the suspense.

time to call up yannick weber. for him its now or never. lets see what he has since potentially the injury is long-term. even if its only for the pp and an occassional shift. cant be any worse than mab. besides mab has knee issues and wont be 100% anyway.

FORGET Bergeron, Dagenais, Regher, Bieksa and all the others for now. They are either out of shape and not ready to play or will will cost to much to get them NOW. Best plan for now is to move Picard in and call up either Carle, Weber or Nash. Play with 7 defencen this will reduce ice time for Hamerlick, Gill and Spacek and keep them effective. We are not going to replace a top defencemen like Markov with just one player.

Best case scenario Markov is out 3-4 months that brings him back in time the end of March to finish the season and in time to start the playoffs . Worst case he is out until May and hopefully back for the 2nd round round of playoffs .

This will give time to evaluate what we have. If we do need to tweak the lineup we can do that as the trade deadline approaches.

Judging by the play in the last 3/4 games the forwards are working well together and we are getting chances from all 4 lines.

As for tomorrow against Philly it is not the be all game and with Markov down it will be up to the forwards to take the attack to them.

The real test of the season (to date) will be tomorrow night against the Flyers I think. Montreal has played some great hockey over the last month and a bit, but I won’t uncross my fingers until they get some wins against Washington, Philadelphia and maybe a couple of powerhouses in the West. The wins over Vancouver and Boston were great but I’m still anxious about how this season’s gonna go. Still, I’m more optimistic now than I was 6 weeks ago!

I personally think that Markov is not the key to this team winning. When we lost him in the past, during regular season, we didn’t have Subban. Things are different now. We have done without Markov before and we will survive without him now. Subban is really coming into his own and will certainly be a good pairing with Picard. I do agree that Spacek has played better since having his ice time reduced. Bring on the Flyers!

picard will work great with subban….don’t jump ship because markov went down….hate to be the bearer of bad news….there’s more injuries to come….happens to every team….you have to work through them….all we have to remember….the stanley cup is not won in november….but we need all the points we can get….they do count come April.

That’s not entirely correct. Markov gets paid regardless (all salaries are guaranteed) but, to the best of my understanding, if Markov goes on LTIR the Habs only get cap relief if the player who replaces him pushes the Habs over the upper limit of the cap, and that cap relief is just for the amount the Habs go over the cap. So, theoretically, if the cap is $59 mil and the Habs with Markov are sitting at $58 mil, the Habs still only have $1 mil of cap space regardless of whether Markov is on LTIR or not. However if the Habs sign a player to replace Markov and pay him $2 mil, the Habs don’t get penalized for the $1 mil they are now over the cap by. BuClear as mud, eh (which explains why capologist is a full-time job).

What would you be if you were attached to another object by an incline-plan wrapped helically around an axis?

Great post. I agree with everything you wrote. Martin has been putting on a coaching clinic since he got to Montreal. Although a lot of people don’t understand his tactics (shortening the bench, line combinations etc.), this week really showed how his coaching wins us games. Most notably against Boston. His match-ups and quick shifts won us the game IMO.

There was a message or lack last game. You can hurt our player and there will absolutely nothing we will do to you. The only thing we worry about is if you are ok, how do you feel about hurting one of our players. Our players have a target on there back and there will be no concequence what-so-ever.

Scott Gomez to Montreal Media “You’re a pain in the neck, but you’re our pain in the neck.”

Disagree. Mutual deterrence only breeds a buildup of more weapons for mutual deterrence. We get a psycho to teach you a lesson and you get one to counter ours, so we need two to stay ahead of the game and you respond with another for balance and we need a third and so on. Multiply this by 30 teams. There are barely enough really good hockey players to fill 30 rosters let alone enough psychos. When the psychos outnumber the really good players do we have the right balance? Or do we keep adding even more psychos?

Back to what I said. Filling a roster spot with a goon (dumbo, psycho, whatever) is not the answer.

Another point, you base your thoughts on the assumption that the check by Stall was done with intent to injure. My view is that it was an unfortunate accident. So you think we should send out a psycho to beat the crap out of someone for an accident?

I agree. Intentional or not, somebody needed their head kicked in. If it was accidental, then that’s a shame but you should have been more careful. Maybe you’ll think next time before you act. Enjoy your broken nose & missing chicklets.

These moves are logical and make perfect sense. For now, there is no need to call anyone up from Hamilton or make any kind of trade or UFA signing. If the need arises, the Dmen in Hamilton do not require waivers (except for Carle) and can move back and forth between the two leagues. Let’s see how things go for a few weeks and then revisit the situation.

We need a team pyscho, a real nut case. If we had a “Chris Nilan” on this team Eric Stall would have (and should have) left the game in MORE pain than Markov. The replays sure make it look like Stall’s intent was to hurt Markov and that kind of tom foolery should be met with Devine Retribution. Forget F’ing MAB…WHEN is Danny Carcillo UFA?

“When I was a baby I wish my first word had been “QUOTE”, then right before I die I could say “UNQUOTE” – Stephen Wright

I agree with you. I was hoping Moen would be pissed and go after
anybody especially Stall. But nope. The only frustration I saw in a
player was Gomez when he was pushing Carolina player’s face to the
ice. Gomez seems to be the only one who cares about Markov.

Scott Gomez to Montreal Media “You’re a pain in the neck, but you’re our pain in the neck.”

I hear ya, pretty boy. Carcillo would score once in a while yet he would not hesitate to take someone’s head off when required (in case of Stall, that requirement was on Saturday). While there are very few I am sure there is a guy out there who can be a solid 3rd or 4th lines and be what you call a phsyco

If we sign Carcillo, I’ll strongly consider finding a new team for the duration of his contract. He’s a pathetic piece of garbage and doesn’t deserve to be in this league. Everynight I wish for him, and Kaleta, to have a career ending injury happen to him so this world will be a better place. Guys like him are not “enforcers” or “tough guys”, they’re little rats who get paid to be idiots, therefore, only idiots would pay guys like that. Lappierre is as close to that as we’ll ever get and he’s not even close to how Carcillo is.

That site has been overloaded multiple times now with the massive amount of page visits, hopefully this fries Campbell but I’m not optimistic, either they’ll weasel out or put an even bigger ‘hole in charge.

Aside from Andrei Markov’s stellar play, he also helped by getting Jaro Spacek’s ice time and role reduced. The more Markov played the less Spacek played. Spacek seemed to be playing better with a slightly reduced role. Not only will he now get more ice time but we also have to call in a less experienced defenseman. Picard is pretty steady but it sure will be pins and needles time if MAB rejoins the team….

Spacek seemed to play better with Markov in the line up. Less pressure on him, takes more confident decisions and doesn’t panic. He had a good game against the Canucks and a great game against Carolina. Hope he keeps it up.

Well the supposively real test week has passed. 3-0-0, 12 goals for, 3 against. What MORE could you ask for?

The next test: the upcomming games for the month of november include 2 games against the Flyers (they have our number), 1 game against Nashville and 1 game against the hot Kings, who we beat last season. Not to mention the breeze on saturday against Toronto.

Why do I get the feeling we will break Toronto’s losing streak? It almost always seems that we break slumps. Enough of that though. We’ll beat them to death.

Markov’s stellar play?? I didn’t see that out there. I do agree about Spacek though. I don’t think it’s a big worry for us though, he just knows how to manage himself out there throughout the season so he’s ready to go all out in the playoffs. A lot a veterans do it, maybe don’t look as bad as he does on some nights, but his play last year was not much different from the way it is so far this year.

Aside from coveting a Kevin Bieksa/Robyn Regher type to play beside Subban, I think Picard will do fine… and if not then calling up Carle or Weber will do. I don’t think you can mess with the pairings of Gill/Gorges and Hamrlik/Spacek without really screwing up the defence chemistry.

I do remember the Habs winning the Cup with a supposed ‘bad’ defence of Daigneault/Brisebois/Schneider/Desjardins/Haller/Odelein…

Roy also pulled off the most brilliant playoff goaltending performance in league history in 1993 and Schneider, Desjardins had pretty solid careers, unfortunately they weren’t here for the majority of it.

Those pairings brought in some wins, I just hope Picard doesn’t have too much rust from watching Markov from the box for the last stretch. He’ll keep a simple game to offset Subban’s adventerous style.

Carcillo’s a dirtier version of Max Lapierre, who are you kidding? I remember him bravely fighting Marian Gaborik last season and than sucker-punching Matt Bradley. He is not going to be the guy who makes the other team think twice about attacking our star players. He’s just going to make them hate us even more and take more swipes at our stars because he won’t back up his behaviour.