Beginners and Beyond

Training Plans and Finish Times (Read 152 times)

George basically circles it back to my inherent internal crisis - after a point does it really matter? I've run high mileage, although my speedwork is admittedly flightly, for a very very long time. OTOH, the girl who has run with me for years but barely runs beyond our long runs that she frequently bails on, ran a 3:52 in her first marathon on very little training this weekend. If you went based purely on the miles - and even on the speedwork since she had never heard of such things before we started training together - one would have given me the advantage. Yet, she ran a spectacular race far beyond anything I could aspire to. When someone succeeds or fails to succeed, is it training or is it something else?

And this is not to dis my friend so much to wallow in my own mediocrity...

I have come to believe that everyone has a range within which they can improve. I believe that a good training plan that is right for you can help maximize your potential. But in the end, your potential is capped by good ol' genetics. For some people, they may half-ass their way through Higdon's beginner 1, skip the 20 mile run and struggle to a 4:15 marathon. Others may diligently work their way through Pfitz's 18/55 and be delighted with the resulting 5:15.

I think that the benefit that you can achieve through a training plan is injury prevention, because your mileage buildup will be more structured and you will have to take rest days, or at least cross train.

(BTW #2, you aren't going to hit your potential if you are running less than 2,500 miles per year).

That's conjecture and opinion. I'd particularly question it when training for shorter races. It's also a matter of what you mean by hitting your potential. Even world record holders are probably not reaching 100% of their potential, maybe only 95-98%. How do you intend to measure potential? Pragmatically would you say that they've reached their potential when more training does not yield better results?

Lara, while I doubt that it would have made much of a difference if your friends had followed different plans, I think that they did well because they followed one (even if you say your GF sort of followed one. Maybe she actually did more hard workouts, rather than less. Which is what I always seem to end up doing myself. Then I say: "I sort of followed a plan..."). You admit yourself that you have never actually done your training based on a plan. Why not? Why don't you try it? I'm pretty sure that you would obtain the same marathon result as your less experienced friend had in her first. It would be worth a try.

Hehe. Stacey is most likely the exception but no she really didn't follow a plan. She says she followed Higdon but she skipped a lot of the long runs. She ran a 1 20 miler and 2 1/2 marathons but beyond that kinda did what she felt like. Her max week was 35. But she also had this weird... I don't know... confidence or attitude or something where she simply never thought that running a marathon would be a big deal. And it totally wasn't for her. She crossed the line with a big ole smile on her face completely oblivious to why the rest of us were going nuts at her time.

As for me, I've just never really found one that I felt suited me. They were either entirely too low on miles or too high on speedwork so while I frequently printed them out I never really followed through. I am most likely going to at least attempt to this time but then there's that nagging fear that it will suck the joy out of running and make me no faster.

But, maybe its cause I usually max out around 2000 a year. Brad says I'm 500 short.

George, wanna come spend the summer in Florida? I'd love to see what you could do with Christian.

Well, Lara lives in Central Florida, so she gets 5-15F lower temps than me. You'll be safe there in 90F instead of 100F. As to humidity, we cannot help you there. It all sucks. But after that, you can conquer anything.

Hehe. Stacey is most likely the exception but no she really didn't follow a plan. She says she followed Higdon but she skipped a lot of the long runs. She ran a 1 20 miler and 2 1/2 marathons but beyond that kinda did what she felt like. Her max week was 35. But she also had this weird... I don't know... confidence or attitude or something where she simply never thought that running a marathon would be a big deal. And it totally wasn't for her. She crossed the line with a big ole smile on her face completely oblivious to why the rest of us were going nuts at her time.

As for me, I've just never really found one that I felt suited me. They were either entirely too low on miles or too high on speedwork so while I frequently printed them out I never really followed through. I am most likely going to at least attempt to this time but then there's that nagging fear that it will suck the joy out of running and make me no faster.

But, maybe its cause I usually max out around 2000 a year. Brad says I'm 500 short.

George, wanna come spend the summer in Florida? I'd love to see what you could do with Christian.

And yes, I am thinking too much.

Lara, I can't help but wonder if maybe you should consider a coach. It seems to me that you might need somebody to explain WHY "X" workout is the one you should be doing, or why you are resting today.

George basically circles it back to my inherent internal crisis - after a point does it really matter? I've run high mileage, although my speedwork is admittedly flightly, for a very very long time. OTOH, the girl who has run with me for years but barely runs beyond our long runs that she frequently bails on, ran a 3:52 in her first marathon on very little training this weekend. If you went based purely on the miles - and even on the speedwork since she had never heard of such things before we started training together - one would have given me the advantage. Yet, she ran a spectacular race far beyond anything I could aspire to. When someone succeeds or fails to succeed, is it training or is it something else?

And this is not to dis my friend so much to wallow in my own mediocrity...

Lara, I'm curious as to how she felt after the marathon? I had a similar experience with a friend a month ago when I ran a Half with her. She'd only been running 4-6 miles max and decided to run the half with me 2 weeks before the race. She did two 10 mile long runs. On race day, she took off a lot faster than me, and I barely caught up with her before the end. We ended up with the same race time. She is also a bicyclist and in pretty good shape, but I run many more miles then she does. After the race, she was not up to running or biking for several weeks, and said she was quite sore. She's very competitive and determined, and says she just got into the energy of the race. Then again, I was using the race as part of my training for an upcoming marathon, and didn't want to be off my feet for long. So we both went into the race with different attitudes and goals.

(but I still have this nagging feeling that I should have done better!)

BTW, I'm loving this thread. You are all so thoughtful and smart!

Cherie

"We do not become the people who this world needs simply by turning our backs on anyone we don’t like, trust, or deem healthy enough to be in our presence. " ---- Shasta Nelson

I'm not sure I have the funds for a coach but I'm contemplating McMillan's training plans - they are at least customized based on provided information. The cost of an actual coach made me .

Before you invest in a McMillan plan you may want to read this thread over in Running 101: McMillan's "new" Paces.

Coaches and plans come at various price breaks depending on whether you're getting just a plan, limited e-mail or phone contact, or a lot of hand holding. Local running clubs and sometimes your LRS may also have clinics, clubs, or training groups that may meet your needs. Interesting that you should mention this now since I just contacted the coach that Katrina (RedSparkle) has been using to see if he'd be interested in coaching me for my first ultra. Talk about inflation. 6 months of personalized coaching is almost as much as I made coaching a HS team for a season - 30 years ago.

2017 Goals: for races not to be exercises in futility

crazyrunninglady

Warrior Princess

posted: 1/24/2013 at 5:03 PM

She's contempating another marathon next month. Cause it was so much fun.

crazyrunninglady

Warrior Princess

posted: 1/24/2013 at 5:08 PM

Thanks George. I had forgotten they'd been changed. I just plugged in my 5 mile time from this weekend, though and it lined up with the paces I've been running (although I'm on the slower side) for the workouts I've been doing. Now that I look closer at it, though, it seems odd that my 5 miler pace is within the recommended tempo pace (I've only done intervals since coming back, no tempos so I hadn't checked that one super close.) Mind you, I'm still rebuilding and it was kind of an odd race for me. But that still sounds peculiar.

Sigh. Back to square one.

Hope everyone is enjoying Lara's biannual "I want to run a marathon but thinking about it is making my head explode" thread.

Well, Lara lives in Central Florida, so she gets 5-15F lower temps than me. You'll be safe there in 90F instead of 100F. As to humidity, we cannot help you there. It all sucks. But after that, you can conquer anything.

Lara lives near where I live, and while it's not Miami stinkin' hot and humid, it's still stinkin' hot and humid.