Obama and Biden: Merely Very Liberal, Not Ultra Liberal

Contra Fred Barnes and National Journal, Brendan Nyhan argues that Barack Obama and Joe Biden are not the 1st and 3rd most liberal Senators but only the 11th and 10th most liberal Senators. By contrast, John McCain is either the 8th or 2nd most conservative Senator, depending on the year.

Comments

Although both lean to the liberal side by Senate standards from the standpoint of the political spectrum in the country they’re both center-left. IMO simply being in the Senate (which means running for statewide election) is prima facie evidence of leaning at least a little towards the center. I don’t think there are any hard left Senators and if there’s a hard right Senator I don’t know who he or she is.

Characterizing things otherwise is an unrealistic compression of the spectrum of views in the country. Lord knows the mainstream range of opinion here is pretty narrow but it’s not that narrow.

I wonder a bit, james, at the way this post of yours leans, given what I see of the Barnes article:

But what Mr. Obama has done is create an all-liberal ticket — a very, very liberal one, at that — in a nation whose electorate is still center-right. The political mood may be a bit more centrist today than it was in 2004, but it’s still far more conservative than liberal. And liberal Democratic presidential tickets usually lose, as John Kerry did with John Edwards as his running mate in 2004.

I mean, count their relative positions, left to right as you will. But either way, what we have here is unquestionably “an all-liberal ticket — a very, very liberal one, at that”. Past that, there seems very little room to manuver.

I have no empirical evidence to prove this, but my guess is the reason twice as many Americans identify as conservative than liberal is because many liberals like to consider themselves moderates in an attempt to appear more open minded.

I mean, count their relative positions, left to right as you will. But either way, what we have here is unquestionably “an all-liberal ticket — a very, very liberal one, at that”.

And that’s a bad thing (if true) because? Look, given the severely diminished value of conservative Republican stock, I don’t think conjuring up the liberal boogeyman is going to work anymore (not that I’d expect Fred Barnes to cease holding on to the hope). And we should put these things in some perspective. As James has pointed out both of our parties would fit comfortably within the British Conservative Party.

I’m not particularly impressed by indices and rating schemes. But Obama himself is substantially to the left of Biden. Relevant examples: Obama champions income redistribution from the shareholders of energy companies via a confiscatory “windfall profits” tax and some sort of rebate to “lower- and middle-class taxpayers.” Biden championed a pro-business, pro-creditor, pro-credit card company reform to the Bankruptcy Code in 2005 that made it substantially harder for consumers to discharge their debts (rather than “reorganizing” them, i.e., continuing to pay them off on long schedules under close court and bankruptcy trustee supervision). Obama said he would have voted against the Iraq War; Biden was one of the drafters of the authorization and voted for it.

Biden’s plenty liberal, and he’s also very much a class-warrior, but sometimes he fights on the opposite side of the class wars from Obama.

My point remains that the Senate is by and large less ideologically skewed than, say, the House and even if you’re fairly far left by Senate standards it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re far left by national domestic policy standards.

Well, the guy has based his reputation on being a “maverick”. Not sure what the really means in the real world, but it apparently means the illusion of bucking his party. Not being a conservative, I can’t really say for sure, but they don’t seem to take too kindly to even the illusion of bucking the party. One thing you can say about conservatives is that they like things…. well, they like things conservative. And even the illusion of bucking is considered not just in bad taste, but tantamount to treason.

And that’s a bad thing (if true) because? Look, given the severely diminished value of conservative Republican stock, I don’t think conjuring up the liberal boogeyman is going to work anymore (not that I’d expect Fred Barnes to cease holding on to the hope). And we should put these things in some perspective. As James has pointed out both of our parties would fit comfortably within the British Conservative Party.

Heh. Well, a quick answer would be to break your statement out a little…

And that’s a bad thing (if true) because…. as James has pointed out both of our parties would fit comfortably within the British Conservative Party….

And given the relative state of England, these days, that’s not a harbinger of major problems?

I acually expect conservatives to (Gasp!) be CONSERVATIVES and not warmed over liberals.

Yes, that was quite clear. Again, what this means is that you believe “conservative” is way farther to the right of almost, if not all senators. That kind of measuring stick puts you way, way far to the right of pretty much everyone and thus, as I said, almost unrecognizable as a political point of reference. An outlier.

Did you vote for him because he was a liberal wannabe?

No. I had just turned 18 and was on my own, having grown up in a right wing evangelical family. At the time I considered myself to be a Libertarian of the Heinlein variety and Regan was my choice. The family hated Carter, so…

But I’m not sure what the reason why I voted for Reagan has to do with the price of tea in China. You’re seeing those connecting threads in your mind which no one else sees, Dr. B. You’ll have to enlighten us po liberal folk.