Rachel Maddow confronted Wisconsin governor Scott Walker over disputed claims made by Paul Ryan in his speech at the Republican national convention on Wednesday night.

The vice-presidential candidate gave the major speech of the night, and referenced a General Motors plant that he said closed down under President Obama. He has made the claim before, and the plant actually closed down in December 2008 under President Bush.

Maddow asked Walker to address the claim after Ryan's speech. The governor said that there were two rounds of layoffs at the plant, and said that the bailout had not helped the auto industry in Wisconsin.

Maddow was skeptical. "It is surprising to hear you run down the American auto industry at a moment that it really has come back and to see such a bright spot in the economy, you talked as if things haven't worked out in the auto industry since the bailout," she said. "It's a surprise."

Schultz broke in, hitting back at Walker's claims. "It was not Barack Obama's economic policies that closed that GM plant," he insisted. "That plant was closed in December 2008. That's in the Washington Post right now Governor. It has nothing to do with Barack Obama's econimic policy whatsoever. You can't get away from that fact."

Walker said that managed bankruptcy would have been more effective for the plant. Schultz said that Walker could not guarantee the plant would still be operating under that strategy.

Sharpton tried to cut in. Walker retorted, "If you want to talk over and not let me talk that's fine. Apparently that's what you do a lot of."

Its lies,lies and more lies...every time one of these high ranking GOPers opens their mouths.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">“What he’s very good at is finding other people to blame,” Mr. Romney said at a fund-raiser in San Diego recently. At an event in Michigan, he mocked Mr. Obama for trying to evade responsibility for the economy by blaming “his predecessor, the Congress, the one percent, oil companies, and A.T.M.s.”

So it was interesting to hear Mr. Romney’s own aides over the weekend try to explain some of the less flattering statistics from Mr. Romney’s time as governor of Massachusetts.

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Mr. Gillespie said it was unfair to judge Mr. Romney’s record on job creation by including all four years of his tenure. He said the statistic that Mr. Romney was 47th in job creation during his time in office was calculated by “diluting it with the first year in office, when he came into office, and it was 50th in job creation.”

Essentially, he was arguing that Mr. Romney’s first year, in 2003, shouldn’t be counted.</span>

Eric Fehrnstrom, another top aide to Mr. Romney, also blamed the situation that the governor inherited — paradoxically, from Republican governors who occupied the Statehouse for the previous 12 years.

“When Mitt Romney arrived, Massachusetts was an economic basket house,” Mr. Fehrnstrom said on ABC’s “This Week” program on Sunday. “If you throw D.C. into the mix, we were 51 out of 51.”

Mr. Obama’s team was incredulous. On a conference call with reporters, David Axelrod, a senior adviser to the president’s campaign, accused Mr. Romney’s campaign of “breathtaking hypocrisy” for using the same excuse that their candidate has been hammering the president for.

“Their answer to all of this was. ‘Well you really can’t include his first year because you know he inherited a really tough economic situation,’ ” Mr. Axelrod said. “They’ve painted themselves into a corner here. And now that double standard is clear and they’re going to have to explain it to the American people.”

In fact, the most serious attacks from Mr. Romney involve exactly the kind of focus on Mr. Obama’s first year in office that the Republican advisers were trying to avoid.

Mr. Romney frequently says that Mr. Obama has presided over an economy that has lost hundreds of thousands of jobs. In a recent news release, the Republican campaign said, “Under President Obama, the nation has lost 552,000 jobs.”

But that statistic includes Mr. Obama’s first year in office, and especially the months of February, March and April, when monthly job losses from the economic collapse were at 700,000 or higher.

Just ignoring February of 2009, before any of Mr. Obama’s policies — including the economic stimulus — had been put into place, would wipe away all 552,000 lost jobs, giving the president a record of creating 172,000 jobs.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>If Mr. Romney’s team were to ignore Mr. Obama’s first year in office — as Mr. Gillespie suggested should be done for Mr. Romney’s first year as governor — then the president would have added about 3.7 million jobs to the economy</span> </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In this sense, the Romney campaign continues to pose a test to the news media and our political system. What happens when one campaign has decided there is literally no set of boundaries that it needs to follow when it comes to the veracity of its assertions? The Romney campaign is betting that the press simply <span style='font-size: 14pt'>won’t be able to keep voters informed about the disputes that are central to the campaign, in the face of the sheer scope and volume of dishonesty it uncorks daily.</span> </div></div>

Q

Qtec

08-30-2012, 05:18 AM

The Ryan speech has been found to contain numerous factual errors. He didn't check to see that what he was saying was true??????

The only explanation is that he didn't care that he was lying.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's an attack Ryan has used before, and one that the Detroit News has called inaccurate: "In fact,<span style='font-size: 14pt'> Obama made no such promise and the plant halted production in December 2008, when President George W. Bush was in office,</span>" Detroit News reporter David Sherpardson wrote earlier this month. "Obama did speak at the plant in February 2008, and suggested that a government partnership with automakers could keep the plant open, <u>but made no promises as Ryan suggested.</u>"

Senior Obama campaign adviser David Axelrod pounced on the claim in a tweet: <span style='font-size: 14pt'>"Again, Ryan blames Obama for a GM plant that closed under Bush. But then, they did say they wouldn't "let fact checkers get in the way."</span>

The guy gets up before the RNC convention, in front of the voters, and the world, and lies through his teeth.
Romney does the same every time he opens his mouth and they both call themselves Religious?

Q

Gayle in MD

08-30-2012, 06:34 AM

That statement Ryan made, was severely lacking. He indicated that if the president wins, nothing will change.

He forgot to add: Because we Republicans will continue to lie, slander and obstruct every single sensible measure, and proven effective plan, that President Oboma AND WE, KNOW must be taken in order that we Republicans can continue to hold our country back in the interest of our personal political gain, including all measures which we Republicans have previously adopted ourselves.

Qtec

08-30-2012, 07:12 AM

Correct. The GOP have taken to heart the theory, "never let a disaster go to waste". Even when its a disater of their own making!

They created a disaster and now they want to blame Obama for that!

They now talk about responsibility, much like they have done before, <span style='font-size: 14pt'>but how many of the last admin have taken responsibility for the car wreck of an economy they passed on to Obama?</span>

Not one.

Q

Gayle in MD

08-30-2012, 07:36 AM

Very true, and now they are depending on their latest Republican Ryan tactic, to cover up the non-stop lies, it's called lying with a smile!

They think they can Smile/Lie and no one will notice the lie. It'll work for their stunningly ignorant base, but will it work on the rest of the country?

At any rate, that's what Ryan, Rice, The Huckster, and the rest, learned from Christie's bomb of a speech. The angry lying Republicans are going to re-do their image, and Smile/Lie their way into the White House.

Gee, Laura Bush could have taught them that! She did it for eight years, and was still doing it last night.

She never quite mastered it, though. She still gives herself away, as was shown in her filmed statements last night...she was still using the Smile/Lie/ method, but still unconsciously nodding "no" while lying. Dead Giveaway.

The REPUBS must have forgotten how Reagan used the same method his entire life. he was very good at Smile/Lie, and pretending he coudn't hear questions.

G.

Soflasnapper

08-30-2012, 08:39 AM

The guy gets up before the RNC convention, in front of the voters, and the world, and lies through his teeth.
Romney does the same every time he opens his mouth and they both call themselves Religious?

Mormons, Roman Catholics, Moslems, and Jews, all have official doctrines about lying is ok and even mandatory in certain given situations.

They have explanations as to why it is not a problem and a good thing.

Basically, it's an ends justifies the means argument, of a kind familiar to the situational ethics line of analysis. If the Nazis ask you if you are hiding Ann Frank in your attic, or any Jews, and you are, you are free to, and really compelled to, lie to protect them.

Especially when hiding core beliefs of the church, all the above religions indicate to their followers that lying is not forbidden.

llotter

08-30-2012, 11:04 AM

I think the GM plant closed a few months after The Moron took office. That was after he visited the plant during the campaign and guaranteed it would never close during his time in office. I wonder if that statement picked up any votes. So now the Left merely doubles down on the lies for the benefit of other lefties.

eg8r

08-30-2012, 11:37 AM

Well before you say they are doubling down on any lies why don't you find out for sure if the plant closed or not? You said you "think".

by December 2008, the plant had reached a point of no return where the plant would be shut down regardless of federal action. Ryan was faulting Obama for an that was event that was inevitable over a month before he took office.
February 2008: At a campaign stop in Janesville, Obama says, ”I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years.” As Politifact writes, “That’s a statement of belief that, with government help, the Janesville plant could remain open — but not a promise to keep it open.”

June 3, 2008 – GM decides to close the Janesville plant, announcing that production will end by 2010, after months of rumors it might close. The press release declares, “Janesville, Wisconsin, will cease production of medium-duty trucks by the end of 2009, and of the Tahoe, Suburban and Yukon in 2010, or sooner.” Senators Herb Kohl and Russ Feingold, both Democrats, and Paul Ryan, whose House district includes Janesville, write the company urging it to reverse the decision.

September 2008 – Paul Ryan flies to Detroit to urge GM to reconsider its decision to close the plant. According to the Los Angeles Times, he pitched “a $224-million proposal that included roughly $50 million in state enterprise zone tax credits, local government grants worth $22 million and major contract concessions from the United Auto Workers union local.” Throughout, Ryan frequently speaks with GM chief Rick Wagoner.

Oct. 11, 2008 – Barack Obama comments on the Janesville closing. He does not promise to prevent the closing-in-progress, but instead declares he will “retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville” (emphasis mine) as president. Regardless of one’s views of the auto bailout, it has saved facilities like the Janesville one, if not the Janesville one in particular.

November/December 2008 – Congress weighs a bailout of GM and other automakers. One proposal, backed by Ryan and 31 other House Republicans, but not Mitt Romney, would have provided $15 billion in bridge loans. The bill passed the house but was not picked up by the Senate. The Bush administration declines to use TARP funds to rescue automakers, but approves a bridge loan on Dec.19, too late to save the Janesville plant.

Dec. 23, 2008 – Lacking a bailout, the plant closes. The plant holds a “final goodbye ceremony” as it builds its last SUV. In a statement to MSNBC, GM confirmed that the plant “was idled” in December. But — and this is where it gets confusing — winding down a plant takes time.

April 21, 2009 – The Janesville plant builds its last medium-duty truck and shuts down its last assembly line, completing the shutdown process started in June 2008.

In short, the Janesville shutdown commenced in June 2008. Once it was clear that aid wasn’t forthcoming in November, actual assembly lines were being shut down by December. It is true that Paul Ryan tried to get the Obama administration to save another plant, in Kenosha, which the Obama administration failed to do. Attacking Obama for that is fair. But hitting him for Janesville is dishonest. The first assembly line stopped rolling in December 2008. Workers unfurled banners declaring the “Last Vehicles Off the Janesville Line” at a “final goodbye ceremony,” The plant was closing regardless of what Obama did.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>This is a very strange dispute, in a way. Mitt Romney wrote an op-ed in the New York Times under the title “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt,” and now his campaign is trying hard to fault Obama for not bailing out automakers aggressively enough. Not only that, but after the campaign’s repeated denunciation of the Obama administration for “picking winners,” Ryan is faulting Obama for not “picking a winner” not just among companies, but among plants. He’s attacking Obama for not using the government to micromanage GM’s affairs.</span>

<span style="color: #990000"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>Two lyng Hypocrites! Ryan and Romney Intentionaly lied</span>!</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the GM plant closed a few months after The Moron took office. That was after he visited the plant during the campaign and guaranteed it would never close during his time in office. I wonder if that statement picked up any votes. So now the Left merely doubles down on the lies for the benefit of other lefties. </div></div>

<span style="color: #990000">Not True! GM has confirmed the plant closed in December 2008!

Well, the decision to close was obviously made before it actually closed but you own reference says the last vehicles rolled out in Apr 2009 as Ryan and other have stated. This took place in spite of The Moron's promises to keep the plant open on two separate ocassions, Feb and Oct 2008 as part of his lying campaign. He promised to retool that plant to produce modern fuel efficient vehicles but that was just another lie as usual.

Gayle in MD

08-30-2012, 03:34 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, the decision to close was obviously made before it actually closed but you own reference says the last vehicles rolled out in Apr 2009 as Ryan and other have stated. This took place in spite of The Moron's promises to keep the plant open on two separate ocassions, Feb and Oct 2008 as part of his lying campaign. He promised to retool that plant to produce modern fuel efficient vehicles but that was just another lie as usual. </div></div>

Ridiculous! Ryan accused the president of being responsible for for the closing of a plant that closed before president Obama had even been elected!

'Romney Pollster: We Will Not 'Be Dictated By Fact-Checkers' </span> </div></div>

G.

llotter

08-30-2012, 03:52 PM

Here is exactly what Ryan said in his speech pertaining to the Janesville GM plant:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">President Barack Obama came to office during an economic crisis, as he has reminded us a time or two. Those were very tough days, and any fair measure of his record has to take that into account. My home state voted for President Obama. When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory.

A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said in 2008.

Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight. </div></div>

Now, exactly where is the lie told by Ryan?

The plant closed on schedule in spite of The Moron's lie to keep it open for one hundred years. The Moron lied to get elected, no surprise.

Soflasnapper

08-30-2012, 04:11 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, the decision to close was obviously made before it actually closed but you own reference says the last vehicles rolled out in Apr 2009 as Ryan and other have stated. This took place in spite of The Moron's promises to keep the plant open on two separate ocassions, Feb and Oct 2008 as part of his lying campaign. He promised to retool that plant to produce modern fuel efficient vehicles but that was just another lie as usual. </div></div>

The local media told the story in pictures and sound.

In two increments, close to 1200 workers were laid off, all but a few dozen (2-4% of the workforce) gone as of that December date. A couple dozen remained there to finish a limited production, but 'the production line' in chief had been idled, 95%+ of the workers laid off as of December.

And that's exactly what the live local television reporting relayed to the local audience there. The final day the main production line operated. The last shift of the vast bulk of the workers. December, '08.

See it on video, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAwKrKbjxhU&feature=player_embedded)

As for Obama promising a single thing, where is that quote? It certainly couldn't be staying open 100 years with government help if it had already closed before that help could be put in place.

Gayle in MD

08-30-2012, 04:29 PM

Are you really That ******!

What could President Obama have done if the plant closed in December o8, and he wasn't sworn in until Jan. 09!

You are not posting Ryan's entire comments.

For once, use your head!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">by December 2008, the plant had reached a point of no return where the plant would be shut down regardless of federal action. Ryan was faulting Obama for an that was event that was inevitable over a month before he took office.
February 2008: At a campaign stop in Janesville, Obama says, ”I believe that <span style='font-size: 20pt'>if</span> our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years.” As Politifact writes, <span style='font-size: 20pt'>“That’s a statement of belief that, with government help, the Janesville plant could remain open — but not a promise to keep it open.”</span> </div></div>

Ryan LIED. Period! And not just about this! He lied about everything he said about President Obama! Everything!

G.

llotter

08-30-2012, 04:32 PM

I only ask you to please point out the lie and I guess even though you could find one, you decided that the spoon is more accurate than your own lyin eyes.

When are you going to start thinking for yourself????

Gayle in MD

08-30-2012, 04:42 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I only ask you to please point out the lie and I guess even though you could find one, you decided that the spoon is more accurate than your own lyin eyes.

When are you going to start thinking for yourself???? </div></div>

When are YOU?

I have shown you why Ryan's words were lies. Gm has made a statement proving they are lies.

If you still cannot admit to it, that's your problem. It's about what I expected from you anyway.

I suppose you think Romney is going to balance the budget by 2020, increase defense spending, increase tax cuts for the wealthy, and all of it makes sense. It's impossible! Every Economist says that, Repub and Dem leaning.

Why do you think he won't say HOW he is going to do that?

Because he will take it all from the poor the M.C., AND the upper Middle Class as well, that's why.

He will completely destroy SS, medicare and medicaid.

How nice it will all be for you, living near the fault line, subject to flash floods, and earth quakes, when there is No FEMC, no Natinal Weather Service. No Food and Drug administration to pretect us from disease in our food. No Environmental Protection Agency, to monitor the poisons being fracked into your water!

No social security network, or unemployment, and praying every day that nothing happens to you or anyone in your family!

No way to get health Care Insurance, if it does, because they will throw you off if you or anyone you love, ever turns up with a disease, and no other probviders will even consider giving you or yours health Insurance.

You do not have a clue!

G.

llotter

08-30-2012, 05:04 PM

Is that the best you can do, Gayle? Repeat the lie and change the subject?

I reviewed you posts and I see you faithfully repeating the lie and the only evidence you have are the lies others have told. That is a tactic of the Left, keep repeating the lie until are honest people just give up...but the lie lives on.

I quoted the exact language of Ryan but you simply can't show where the he lied. So why are you repeating it?

Gayle in MD

08-30-2012, 11:28 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that the best you can do, Gayle? Repeat the lie and change the subject?

I reviewed you posts and I see you faithfully repeating the lie and the only evidence you have are the lies others have told. That is a tactic of the Left, keep repeating the lie until are honest people just give up...but the lie lives on.

I quoted the exact language of Ryan but you simply can't show where the he lied. So why are you repeating it?

</div></div>

Everyone knows he lied. The entire country is writing and talking about his many lies in his speech. Fact check sites all say he lied. His voting record proves he lied. All of the proof out there, indicated he lied, over and over.

Believe whatever you wish. He lied, not just once, but throughout his speech.

This doesn't change the fact that they are deliberately misleading the public.

Jon Stewart has a comment. LOL

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However, it was the factual inaccuracies in Ryan’s speech that earned much of Stewart’s scorn. He called out Ryan for attacking Obama over cutting Medicare and rejecting the report of a bipartisan debt commission when Ryan himself is guilty of the same. Stewart highlighted Ryan’s defenders in the media, particularly a comment by Rudy Giuliani that not every fact in a convention speech is necessarily accurate.

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Stewart was then joined by correspondent John Oliver, who argued that the GOP’s “We Can Change It” theme was really all about changing “facts, reality, and the meaning of words in order to make a much larger point.” Oliver went as far as to compare Republicans changing the facts to himself making up lies to hit on a woman </span></div></div>

In case you don't know want going on here, Gayle, let me lay it out for you.

The Moron has no viable record to talk about in the campaign so the only alternative is to attack and smear the opponents. And it matters not if there is any truth in the attack because he has a cadre of lefties in the media to aid and abet in the crime. So when you say everybody is writing about the lies, it is really a bunch of lefties in a feeding frenzy to destroy the opposition.

And now you have become part of the leftie clan that repeats the lie to destroy the opposition and with now regard for the truth.

Qtec

08-31-2012, 03:26 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Moron has no viable record to talk about in the campaign so the only alternative is to attack and smear the opponents. </div></div>

What about the GOP record?

<span style='font-size: 17pt'>Is it not true that they did everything in their power to STOP Obama doing anything?</span>

So when they say Obama didn't do this or that, they were responsible for that, not Obama.?

Basically, the GOP fought against ANY bill that would improve the economy and then then blamed Obama for a lack of action!

Please show us another opposition party that insisted that you need 60 votes to pass ANYTHING???????????

Q

eg8r

08-31-2012, 06:47 AM

LOL, when is Jon the funny man going to talk about the "Hope and Change" of Obama that never happened? He was a failure and Jon's partisanship is easy to see.

eg8r

llotter

08-31-2012, 09:39 AM

There you go again, changing the subject. Why, you must be a leftie.

As you know, the first two years of The Moron's administration, the Republicans were powerless to stop anything he wanted to do. In fact he got done everything he wanted without even one Republican vote. It turns out that the thing he wanted were very unpopular and resulted in a Republican 'landslide' after those notorious first two years.

Now, while you may simply feed from the spoon, it is not that clear that the Republicans were not simply acting on their principles of smaller gov. and lower taxes. It was really The Moron that was entirely AWOL. Ryan made that point as it relates to the end of Simpson-Bowles bipartisan commission. The Moron was not involved at all in trying to reach a compromise or in any 'leadership' capacity. It is his way or no way...and by all means, do not interfere with his golf schedule.

Some on the Left have attempted to call out Ryan for voting against the bill even though he was on the commission but what he really did was say that The Moron failed to become involved himself as his own commission product went down in flames. He in fact, did nothing. Ryan also voted against the commissions final report as a member so it was no contradiction or 'lie' that he voted against it in the House.

Gayle in MD

08-31-2012, 12:39 PM

Total lies.

Ryan himself voted against Simpson bowles. he didn't even bother showing up on the last day.

The whole country was in favor of solving our increasing and unsustainable health care and health insurace costs.

Over 62% of those who lost their homes early on in the crash did so because of health costs, when someone in their family became ill, and after their insurance companies dumped them, using false pretenses for doing so.

People all over this country, were dying, many of them because crooks like Mitt Romney, bilked them out of their health Insurance, just as the Obama Pac campaign indicated in that campaign spot.

Stress is one of the causes of illness, and the PAC spot was not a lie, at all. No ne can say how much that woman was impacted by the economic problems that her family faced, thanks to for profit health insurance.

Republicans were determined to maintain the corporate strangle hold the health insurance corporations who were killing Americans with their policies, for those corrupt corporations, and hence, they went on a campaign to spread lies about the ACA, throughout the efforts to address Universal Health care for all Americans.

Obama made his mistake by cooperating with the Republicans, trying to get a bi-artisan effort to work together to deal with what was a growing national emergency.

Over and over he met them with open hands, tryng to get them to do what they were beng paid to do, work for compromise for the good of the nation.

In fact, he compromised so much, that he angered hs supporters. That was his mistake!

There were several televised meetings between the president, and the Republicans, both of which proved that in spite of the FACT, that both Republican, and Democratic presidents had tried to address our growing health costs, for decades, and the unsustainable insurance costs, and corrupt practices, Republicans had a hard line determination to prevent a Democrat from accomplishng it, even when he used Republican approved methods for doing so.

Republicans told so many lies, about the health Care bill, and spread their usual non-stop racist slander, using their usual fear mongering, that they muddied up the facts about the ACt, tremendously.

Last night they showed this country the filth they truly are, and no one who watched this Reublican convention could deny how disgusting their behavior, really was.

It was Republicans who refused any compromise. This president did compromise, they refused. They blocked everything, and created national distress to the recovery, even blocking the extenstion of the debt limit.

They are pure pigs, and the only decent ones left, are retiring, because they are saying their party has become too radical, and they don't want to be a part it any longer.

You can twist the truth till the cows come home, and do, but with evey post, you make it very clear who the moron actually is.

G.

Soflasnapper

08-31-2012, 03:49 PM

In fact he got done everything he wanted without even one Republican vote.

That's ridiculous crap, btw.

Back to civics class, or at least a remedial recent history course.

Obama HAD TO GET several Republicans in the Senate to vote for cloture every time. He often got the ones he needed, by pre-compromising his original bid to the GOP side, which allowed Republican senators like an Olympia Snowe, a Susan Collins, Arlen Spector, and yes, after he was seated, a Scott Brown, to vote with the Dems <span style='font-size: 14pt'>to allow</span> the vote.

Once the real vote was allowed, by clearing the 60 vote hurdle with the aid of usually 3 or 4 Republicans, yes, THEN they mainly voted in lockstep against the bill on the final vote.

But as the GOP was working their filibuster strategy, Obama absolutely needed more than 1 or 2, usually 3 or 4 Republicans to get to the majority-only vote at the end of the day. Only between July and August of 2009 did he have 60 alleged Democratic seat votes to be able to gain cloture without Republicans crossing over the aisle to vote for cloture. And so far as I know, he never took any such cloture votes using the 60 votes when he (briefly) had them in his own party.

And of course, to say he had 60 Democratic votes even then isn't completely right or complete information. He had to rely on the traitor Lieberman and the Republican turned Dem caucuser Jim Jeffords, and Ben Nelson and Landrieux DINOs. And have the very ill Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd available and not in the hospital (which they were in and out of).

what he really did was say that The Moron failed to become involved himself as his own commission product went down in flames. He in fact, did nothing.

The next point doesn't even require civics, but a slight awareness of the atmosphere in DC.

Of COURSE Obama didnt' do NOTHING. He CREATED the commission.

However, already by that time, and in fact from the beginning, all he had to do was say he was FOR something, even something the Republicans were then currently proposing, and suddenly, all the Republicans would switch to OPPOSING it, and demanding 100% of their members join in this whatever-he-wants-we're-agin-it guiding philosophy.

It's true. His saying he wanted something or agreed with something was a GUARANTEE the GOP would oppose it, and whip their members into line. That's inarguable, and please admit it, at least to yourself if not in writing here.

Qtec

08-31-2012, 05:29 PM

Jon makes jokes about things he thinks is funny. Can you blame him because its the nutjob Republicans who provide 99% of his material?

Obama is driving the car. The Republicans are in the back seat,leaning over his shoulder and grabbing the wheel. The car goes off the road and the Republicans [ and you] blame Obama, because he was driving.

Q

eg8r

09-01-2012, 10:13 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jon makes jokes about things he thinks is funny. Can you blame him because its the nutjob Republicans who provide 99% of his material?</div></div>Actually he makes jokes that he thinks other people will think are funny.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The car goes off the road and the Republicans [ and you] blame Obama, because he was driving.

</div></div>Well if Obama had not steered them towards the cliff with his foot floored on the gas pedal they would not have had to grab the wheel to pull the car off the road and save them all from going over the cliff which is clearly Obama's plan.

eg8r

LWW

09-01-2012, 10:24 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: llotter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is exactly what Ryan said in his speech pertaining to the Janesville GM plant:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">President Barack Obama came to office during an economic crisis, as he has reminded us a time or two. Those were very tough days, and any fair measure of his record has to take that into account. My home state voted for President Obama. When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory.

A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said in 2008.

Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight. </div></div>

Now, exactly where is the lie told by Ryan?

The plant closed on schedule in spite of The Moron's lie to keep it open for one hundred years. The Moron lied to get elected, no surprise. </div></div>

Don't confuse the cabal with things like the truth.

Once again ... the bar ... you are holding it far to high.

Soflasnapper

09-01-2012, 11:31 AM

Once again, meaning, for your understanding, you do it all the time, if there is the slightest nuance, conditionality, predicate, even a compound sentence structure, you fail or pretend to fail to understand the English language above the level of a pre-school toddler.

Throw an 'if' in there, and you are totally lost at sea, apparently. Or not, meaning you are but a poor, although trying, agit-prop bs artist.

No promise, but a conditional prediction, which condition didn't occur in time for the prediction to be found either true or false, even if it had been a promise (as it was not).

You may impress 3rd graders with such inane blather, but it is not in my estimation able to fool a 5th grader, any one whom could see through this verbal gymnastics you perform. Maybe unless they were your own children.

Yes, I will admit that the way Ryan phrased this storyline THIS TIME, he carefully avoided outright lying, and used entirely true phrases, to only mislead and suggest a false claim. That wasn't true in other versions of the story he told in recent days, and he was clearly advised to trim the details back so as to make it 'technically true.' And so it is-- technically.

But it's the same constructive lies you complain about from DWS, for instance, when she directly quoted with approval the excerpt from the LA Times in agreement, although when you read the thing in context, it was saying that wasn't true.

I scolded that kind of slick lying with the truth. You should as well, except you approve of it, AND you hilariously think that it is actually true instead of a constructive lie. Because you cannot, or will not, exercise the judgment of a native speaker of English as to what things mean.