I agree - the Scots part of me is very strong and I too am proud to see such a swing towards self governance. For decades I've felt that Scotland was my natural home, and I finally made the move up. And racism isn't everywhere - but in isolated places it can be a real problem and make you a target for bullying - though of course the excuse for it will be something else.
Independence seems like the logical progression. What led to the Act of Union isn't seen as relevant or necessary today by many people.

I agree - the Scots part of me is very strong and I too am proud to see such a swing towards self governance. For decades I've felt that Scotland was my natural home, and I finally made the move up. And racism isn't everywhere - but in isolated places it can be a real problem and make you a target for bullying - though of course the excuse for it will be something else.

Independence seems like the logical progression. What led to the Act of Union isn't seen as relevant or necessary today by many people.

As I recall support for total independence in Scotland is only around 30%? And that's [i]before[/i] any frighteners which would be put out by anti-independence lobby, showing how Scotland's economy would go down the pan, and reminding them how the Scottish banks would have helped that process had the UK govt not come to their aid. North Sea oil? Forget it - it's just a trickle these days!
Not for nothing is independence described as an albatross around Alex Salmond's neck, and it is significant that the I-word was noticeable by its absence in the SNP campaign.
Nostalgia for turning back the clock 300 years is one thing, but harsh economic realities are another.

As I recall support for total independence in Scotland is only around 30%? And that's before any frighteners which would be put out by anti-independence lobby, showing how Scotland's economy would go down the pan, and reminding them how the Scottish banks would have helped that process had the UK govt not come to their aid. North Sea oil? Forget it - it's just a trickle these days!

Not for nothing is independence described as an albatross around Alex Salmond's neck, and it is significant that the I-word was noticeable by its absence in the SNP campaign.

Nostalgia for turning back the clock 300 years is one thing, but harsh economic realities are another.

[quote]Most of them must have voted on Thursday[/quote]
TV interviews, of those who voted SNP, seemed to make it pretty clear most were [i]not[/i] voting for independence. Salmond is canny enough to know he can get quasi-independence without full blown independence, e.g. involving a Scottish army, navy and air force and separate foreign policy.
The devolved powers are only a small proportion of what could be devolved. Salmond would be wise to concentrate on getting a lot more devolved... and I feel sure this is what he will do. He will then have power but without the (ultimate) responsibility: a pretty good position to be in! ;)

Quote:Most of them must have voted on Thursday

TV interviews, of those who voted SNP, seemed to make it pretty clear most were not voting for independence. Salmond is canny enough to know he can get quasi-independence without full blown independence, e.g. involving a Scottish army, navy and air force and separate foreign policy.

The devolved powers are only a small proportion of what could be devolved. Salmond would be wise to concentrate on getting a lot more devolved... and I feel sure this is what he will do. He will then have power but without the (ultimate) responsibility: a pretty good position to be in!

I generally have no time for todayís self-serving politicians but I wish we had an English equivalent of Alex Salmond as politically able as he appears to be and who would fight for the needs of the English people with the Government in Westminster. Good on you Scots for giving Labour and the Lib Dems a bloody nose in their heartlands for taking you for granted and failing to look after your interests.
The question of Scottish Independence is quite a thorny one for many, but in the end itís a matter for the Scots alone and no one else. The SNPs resounding victory the other day and the talk of eventual independence has brought out the bigots on all sides but Iím sure that sensible people realise that the Scotland-England partnership over many, many years has resulted in benefits for both countries and itís silly to argue over who has benefitted the most; we have both profited greatly. I think the Scots will now wait and see if the SNP delivers on its promises before they even consider the issue of independence, and will have to be convinced that independence really is in the best interests of Scotland. Good luck to them whatever they decide.
Peter

I generally have no time for todayís self-serving politicians but I wish we had an English equivalent of Alex Salmond as politically able as he appears to be and who would fight for the needs of the English people with the Government in Westminster. Good on you Scots for giving Labour and the Lib Dems a bloody nose in their heartlands for taking you for granted and failing to look after your interests.

The question of Scottish Independence is quite a thorny one for many, but in the end itís a matter for the Scots alone and no one else. The SNPs resounding victory the other day and the talk of eventual independence has brought out the bigots on all sides but Iím sure that sensible people realise that the Scotland-England partnership over many, many years has resulted in benefits for both countries and itís silly to argue over who has benefitted the most; we have both profited greatly. I think the Scots will now wait and see if the SNP delivers on its promises before they even consider the issue of independence, and will have to be convinced that independence really is in the best interests of Scotland. Good luck to them whatever they decide.

[quote]I can't help sensing a slight hint of racism from national party's.
I'm know I'm wrong and I know that Alex salmond and his SMP's have not got a racist bone in their bodies. But all that tub thumping [b]can [/b]be taken the wrong way by some of the people who support them, I can understand why adrian_w has anxiety about the future.[/quote]
Robo, it's not a question of " can", more "is".
10 years ago my son was stabbed & slashed by a local yob because, quote" you're an English B*****d" Despite being identified to the police no action was taken against the perpetrator.
4 years ago, when the SNP became a minority government, we were subjected to a number of anti-English comments, almost all from card-carrying SNP supporters. It got to the point where I left the Golf Club I had been a member of for many years as it was in a village well known as a hotbed of fundamentalist SNP support in the West of Scotland.
Even since Thursdays' result a number of "jocular" comments have been passed about "ethnic cleansing of the English" & "giving England a bloody nose" etc. These may be funny to the neanderthals but do little to promote Salmonds so-called "open door" policy.

Quote:I can't help sensing a slight hint of racism from national party's.

I'm know I'm wrong and I know that Alex salmond and his SMP's have not got a racist bone in their bodies. But all that tub thumping can be taken the wrong way by some of the people who support them, I can understand why adrian_w has anxiety about the future.

Robo, it's not a question of " can", more "is".
10 years ago my son was stabbed & slashed by a local yob because, quote" you're an English B*****d" Despite being identified to the police no action was taken against the perpetrator.
4 years ago, when the SNP became a minority government, we were subjected to a number of anti-English comments, almost all from card-carrying SNP supporters. It got to the point where I left the Golf Club I had been a member of for many years as it was in a village well known as a hotbed of fundamentalist SNP support in the West of Scotland.
Even since Thursdays' result a number of "jocular" comments have been passed about "ethnic cleansing of the English" & "giving England a bloody nose" etc. These may be funny to the neanderthals but do little to promote Salmonds so-called "open door" policy.

Apart from the "friend" who laid into me for being English and pig ignorant (!!), I usually find that if someone gives me any grief or makes pointed comments, it's usually deflected by talking. Mind you, I'm a middle-aged woman so it's probably a lot easier for me dealing with anti-English sentiment than it is for guys. And that's a real shame.

Apart from the "friend" who laid into me for being English and pig ignorant (!!), I usually find that if someone gives me any grief or makes pointed comments, it's usually deflected by talking. Mind you, I'm a middle-aged woman so it's probably a lot easier for me dealing with anti-English sentiment than it is for guys. And that's a real shame.

CB I think youíre right, increased devolved powers will suffice for the majority & it would seem, as with all political negotiations, that the start point will be the extremes with Salmondís position on independence & Cameronís fight against it Ďwith every fibreí
I also think Cameron is smart enough to try to get Labour do the bulk of his work for him not least because in a Salmond V Cameron contest it would actually increase the likelihood of a Yes vote
Obviously Westminster Labour needs the union to stay intact too, but they will have to be a lot smarter than they are now. The Libdems in Scotland saw the implications of their action of simply aligning themselves with the Conservative party so I guess Labourís standpoint will be to attack SNP while still attacking the Tories & this is the price Cameron will have to pay
Adrian whatís happened to your family is a real shame including the aftermath of the stabbing, I do fear that with thugs like this that if it couldnít be anti-English that it would simply have been something else such as anti-ginger hair or anti-Nike or some other lame excuse in order to act they way they do. I hope he made a full recovery

CB I think youíre right, increased devolved powers will suffice for the majority & it would seem, as with all political negotiations, that the start point will be the extremes with Salmondís position on independence & Cameronís fight against it Ďwith every fibreí

I also think Cameron is smart enough to try to get Labour do the bulk of his work for him not least because in a Salmond V Cameron contest it would actually increase the likelihood of a Yes vote

Obviously Westminster Labour needs the union to stay intact too, but they will have to be a lot smarter than they are now. The Libdems in Scotland saw the implications of their action of simply aligning themselves with the Conservative party so I guess Labourís standpoint will be to attack SNP while still attacking the Tories & this is the price Cameron will have to pay

Adrian whatís happened to your family is a real shame including the aftermath of the stabbing, I do fear that with thugs like this that if it couldnít be anti-English that it would simply have been something else such as anti-ginger hair or anti-Nike or some other lame excuse in order to act they way they do. I hope he made a full recovery

[quote]increased devolved powers will suffice for the majority[/quote]
This will have to be major as in tax raising powers for an example that I believe the SNP are persuing. I visited an area recently in Scotland although quite remote ( where I'm sure there are many ) which hadn't changed in over 40 years. If this trend continues then Scotland will always be what its been allowed to have.

Quote:increased devolved powers will suffice for the majority

This will have to be major as in tax raising powers for an example that I believe the SNP are persuing. I visited an area recently in Scotland although quite remote ( where I'm sure there are many ) which hadn't changed in over 40 years. If this trend continues then Scotland will always be what its been allowed to have.

[quote]Iím not naive, when the referendum comes round (26th June 2014 has been suggested on TV) Iíll vote for Independence but not through some medieval motive of give us our country back & give us our oil!
The referendum will likely not garner sufficient support but every Yes vote will have a strong message to Westminster politicians (not to England or the English people) that they need to treat every country in the Union correctly with respect to their own national identity, social & cultural requirements so that when the Westminster parties draft their mandates to govern then its suitable for the whole Union![/quote]
So do you want independance or not?

Quote:Iím not naive, when the referendum comes round (26th June 2014 has been suggested on TV) Iíll vote for Independence but not through some medieval motive of give us our country back & give us our oil!

The referendum will likely not garner sufficient support but every Yes vote will have a strong message to Westminster politicians (not to England or the English people) that they need to treat every country in the Union correctly with respect to their own national identity, social & cultural requirements so that when the Westminster parties draft their mandates to govern then its suitable for the whole Union!

[quote]Just heard on Sky news that a in a recent poll, English voters were more likely than Scottish voters to vote for Scottish independence.[/quote]
It's just so they can move up here afterwards to a country that's governed properly. ;)

Quote:Just heard on Sky news that a in a recent poll, English voters were more likely than Scottish voters to vote for Scottish independence.

It's just so they can move up here afterwards to a country that's governed properly.

[quote]when the referendum comes round (26th June 2014 has been suggested on TV)[/quote]
If a week is a long time in politics, then 4 years must be............... several incarnations! It may be, by then, the whole of the UK will be enjoying some sort of (fake) prosperity and the desire for full independence may wither accordingly.
But I still maintain there is a heck of a lot more that could be devolved. I was surprised to see how little has actually been devolved to Scotland: it has the feel of a job not properly done. I am suspicious that was deliberate, as some sort of bargaining or tactical tool on the part of Westminster politicians, i.e. if there is any hint of majority support for full independence, then there are quite a few more bones which can be tossed in the direction of Scotland. ;)

Quote:when the referendum comes round (26th June 2014 has been suggested on TV)

If a week is a long time in politics, then 4 years must be............... several incarnations! It may be, by then, the whole of the UK will be enjoying some sort of (fake) prosperity and the desire for full independence may wither accordingly.

But I still maintain there is a heck of a lot more that could be devolved. I was surprised to see how little has actually been devolved to Scotland: it has the feel of a job not properly done. I am suspicious that was deliberate, as some sort of bargaining or tactical tool on the part of Westminster politicians, i.e. if there is any hint of majority support for full independence, then there are quite a few more bones which can be tossed in the direction of Scotland.

[quote]But I still maintain there is a heck of a lot more that could be devolved. I was surprised to see how little has actually been devolved to Scotland: it has the feel of a job not properly done. I am suspicious that was deliberate, as some sort of bargaining or tactical tool on the part of Westminster politicians, i.e. if there is any hint of majority support for full independence, then there are quite a few more bones which can be tossed in the direction of Scotland.[/quote]
I can agree with most of this, but there will always be North's and South's and the divides that follows from this, even in Scottish politics alone.

Quote:But I still maintain there is a heck of a lot more that could be devolved. I was surprised to see how little has actually been devolved to Scotland: it has the feel of a job not properly done. I am suspicious that was deliberate, as some sort of bargaining or tactical tool on the part of Westminster politicians, i.e. if there is any hint of majority support for full independence, then there are quite a few more bones which can be tossed in the direction of Scotland.

I can agree with most of this, but there will always be North's and South's and the divides that follows from this, even in Scottish politics alone.