After the dull performances of Rudd and Abbott in the first leaders debate, Round 2 was the closest we've seen to a dialogue between the two, writes Melissa Clarke.

The leaders' debate, Round 2. Same protagonists, different setting - and a remarkably different outcome.

The first debate at the National Press Club one week into the campaign was, quite simply, dull. But the change in format breathed life into both leaders. With broader questions, a smaller role for the moderator and no podiums to hold forth from, the leaders engaged directly with each other.

It's the closest we've seen to a dialogue between the two, rather than the usual intersecting monologues.

Kevin Rudd was the first to engage his opponent, in what was clearly a strategic move. The Prime Minister took the first opportunity, during the first audience question of the night, to turn to Tony Abbott, step towards him, waving a hand and demand answers; "What are you going to cut? Which schools? Which services?"

Tony Abbott initially shied from returning Kevin Rudd's direct gaze, looking at the audience as he said, "Can I please ask you to stop telling fibs?"

But before long, both leaders were roaming the floor, alternately addressing the audience in the room, television viewers at home and each other.

Kevin Rudd's plan of attack delivered for him. Under persistent questioning about the funding of the Coalition's paid parental leave scheme, Tony Abbott quipped in frustration, "Jeez, does this guy ever shut up?"

To which Kevin Rudd responded with a classic passive-aggressive retort, "We're having a discussion, MATE."

But Mr Rudd was, tellingly, smiling as he went on to say to the audience, "And that is the standard debating technique when the questions get a bit sharp."

Both leaders looked more animated than in the structured daily campaign events that are manufactured around visits to local businesses or schools. The Prime Minister seemed to suddenly find the Kevin07 campaigner that's been missing for some time. Tony Abbott - with that one notable exception - remained calm, clear and on message.

For both leaders the overwhelming emphasis was on what was wrong with the other.

Both leaders tried to balance positivity and negativity - but both failed. There were attempts on both sides to project positivity, with talk of "building" being the flavour of the night.

Kevin Rudd: "I'm passionate about how we build Australia's future. I'm in the building business."

Tony Abbott: "I want to be Mr Build, Build, Build, so we can have jobs, jobs, jobs."

But for both leaders, the overwhelming emphasis was on what was wrong with the other. The focus of closing statements was on the all-too-familiar arguments over who you can trust and who has a better track record.

On the policy front, the forum yielded little. Neither came with a policy announcement to drop or armed with new figures to burnish. Tony Abbott clarified that the Coalition's proposed levy on big businesses wouldn't cover the cost of the generous paid parental leave scheme, saying, "It'll cover about half the scheme."

He could only give limited details of where the rest would come from, pointing to funding for the Government's existing scheme and ending double-dipping, leaving him exposed to Kevin Rudd's attack on costings.

The questions the audience chose to ask the leaders about were wide-ranging, from industrial relations, foreign workers and the Government's proposed bank levy, to same-sex marriage, environmental protection, public sector job cuts and asylum seekers.

For an audience selected to be evenly balanced, many of the questions went to topics traditionally seen to favour the progressive side of politics. It was Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party that had insisted a "People's Forum" where members of the public ask the questions. If they had believed that would deliver friendlier territory for the Opposition Leader, they miscalculated.

A third and final debate is inevitable, though the Liberal Party and the ALP are yet to agree on when, where and how. But with both Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott looking energised from Round 2, it won't be long before the terms of Round 3 are agreed upon for a final tête-à-tête.

Daisy May:

22 Aug 2013 7:15:31pm

Abbott came out today... After the Prime Minister said that he would ban donations from Tobacco companies to all political parties..... and said that he had now declined further donations to the Liberal Party from Tobacco companies..... amazing.

the truth:

Abbott today admitted the Liberal Coalition would scrap the recent increase to the Tobacco tax. A tax increase that would result in 40 000 less young Australians taking up the habit.

As the Tobacco Council recently said on the ABC, "we're not in the business of looking after the health of Australians, we're in the business of selling cigarettes".

Abbott and the Coalition also are not in the business of looking after the health of Australians, they are in the business of raking in Tobacco Corporation donations and in return, kindly reducing their tax burden.

Simon:

Caroline:

22 Aug 2013 1:35:54pm

Tony Latham...sorry, Abbott was the one who couldnt make his numbers add up. Abbott panicked and lost it when he didnt like the line of questioning. Unprofessional and unstatesmanlike, Abbott has form in behaving like a deer in the headlights (remember his excrutiating his interview with Channel 7 reporter) when questions get a bit tricky.If reporters start asking him off-script questions he usually just runs away, but this time he lost it.Not a good look.

Points North:

22 Aug 2013 2:31:13pm

But the audience didn,t, my friend, narrowly giving it to Mr Abbott, with a third undecided. Whose opinion is more important here - Sky News, the journos, the so called political pundits or those who will actually put the numbers on the ballot papers?

Andie:

Tiresias:

22 Aug 2013 4:45:23pm

Have you seen the fridge-size nodes we will have for the LNP NBN? great for the bogans to scribble on and vandalise. As for LNP claims the ALP NBN will cost $90bn+, that is just LNP propaganda, a scare campaign. What the LNP does not talk about is the cost of maintaining their copper and nodes as well as updating the technolgy over time according to demand. And remember that the LNP NBN is costingless at first because so much fibre has already been put down by NBNCo. As for the beat-up about asbestos, Telstra knew it was there - and it is there whether the ALP or the LNP put down the fibre or copper.

Albo:

Tiresias:

22 Aug 2013 4:51:24pm

So without the Office of Climate Change how will Abbott be able to evaluate his supposed success with his own price on carbon called Direct Action? Or is he charging taxpayers for a dud plan which will cost taxpayers plenty but do nothing because Abbot still believes that climate change is crap - or at least any human involvement in it? (That is, it is OK to pump billions of tonnes of CO2 into the atmoshere because it is 'colourless' and does no harm?) Are you ready to pay up for no result?

the yank:

Daisy May:

23 Aug 2013 9:32:07am

Mathias Cormann gave very well respected economist Saul Eslake (Bank of America, Merrill Lynch) the rounds of the kitchen this morning on ABC24.... Do these guys think that they can continue to get away with just "rejecting" every negative comment.Many, very well respected economists, are questioning Abbott's figures... He should either release his costings/savings or stop berating and belittling those, who according to them... don't know what they are talking about.

llanfair:

22 Aug 2013 2:27:49pm

Easy answer for you.

1. Put a freeze on new hires.2. Review Operations to determine what you wouldn't do if you were starting with a clear sheet of paper (as announced).3. Wind down the functions that are no longer core activity.4. Use natural attrition to reduce headcount transferring those in non-core activities to back fill vacancies.

With attrition in most organisations running at 8%-10% per annum, it is not difficult to slim down an organisation. And you do not need to sack anyone.

the yankj:

Joseph B:

22 Aug 2013 4:32:43pm

All you have to do is look at the growth in public servants over the last 6 years to realise it is bloated. Reality is they have sacked 14,000 public servants in Queensland and they are hardly missed.I am disappointed in Tony Abbott because he won't slash the wasteful public service. I don't believe in voluntary redundancies because it is always the good people who take packages and the deadwood remains. They should target the bottom 5% of public servants by performance and make their redundancy mandatory just like would be done in private industry.

Joseph B:

23 Aug 2013 8:37:02am

The comments by the left wing socialist on the ABC make me sick. So what is wrong with getting rid of poor performing public servants? Why shouldn't the public service be expected to be run more efficient delivering necessary services at a lower cost? Taxpayers deserve better.

Australia's generous social welfare programs in this country has only increased our social problems, domestic violence, at risk youth. That is why asian countries that don't have our social welfare systems, but rely on family support don't have the same issues with domestic violence, drugs and alcohol abuse etc that Australia does. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

the truth:

The reality it seems is that both you and the Liberal Party value money over people Joseph.

The Liberal cuts to domestic violence investigations in WA resulted in the deaths of an additional 10 women over 12 months.

The Liberal cuts to Parole Investigation in Vic have resulted in a well reported increase in violent murders.

The Newman Liberal Govt cuts in Queensland to the Child Abuse Investigation section will inevitably result in increased levels of tragedy for innocent Queensland children. Unfortunately these kids do not get the chance to vote.

Cuts to the Police Service have resulted in Queenslander's now being asked to conduct their own investigations in the first instance for all burglaries.

seajae:

22 Aug 2013 2:40:45pm

while your at it get rudd to do the same, still has not declared where he will fund his policies from apart from the credit card yank, this goes both ways. Remember, it was rudd that did this in 2007, are you getting worried he will get his arse kicked now, mate you are so two faced.

patarus:

Abbott has to win an election as opposed to Rudd losing an election, having egg on his face and suffering self humiliation at the expense of his other narcissistic half.

Rudd for all intents and purposes has two sides the nice which e believes he is and the nasty side which just keeps oozing out.

Currently Rudd and presumabably for the rest of the campaign will carry on with a flamboyant, flippant and flumery posture because in his parlance "I ain't got nothin' to loose mate".

The real essence is that Rudd has all to loose - there is no gain in any of this because he knows he will suffer the consequences for the rest of his life - it is driving him to distraction.

Sure he has his salient points lined up in the duck basket but he is obsessed at winning at any cost so that his future will not be bankrupt of any respect.

The election is all about Rudd because that is how he has cultured it - it is all about his personality - all about him - there is nothing in this campaign that remotely resembles an articulated case of past good Labor government.

Everything about the Labor past is negative and contradictory, contrapuntal and was in itself counterproductive as the term produced the dilemmas which we now face - shrinking employment, 2.5% cash rate to try and boost business confidence and investment and consumer confidence and spending and consumer sentiments of the high cost of living namely - electricity and rent.

Labor because of its pre-occupation with itself and its Gillard v Rudd problems desecrated any mandate that it felt it had "earned" across its 6 years in office.

It fiddled with industry and support and now purports it is a lover of business in this country.

Clearly remember that Labor took out the "big stick" and started whacking all and sundry simply because they thought it should all fall their way. The big stick approach was used because Labor could not then and cannot now articulate a case.

Rudd is only talk Ruddism - his lingo - Ruddspeak - Rudd whacko strine because he knows that if he does not hijack the agenda with his own special array of smoke and mirrors he will be relegated out into that place called The Political Wilderness.

Tiresias:

22 Aug 2013 5:06:03pm

Patarus, all this talk about who has what to 'loose' and who is trying to win at any cost, so much of what you say sounds like comment on Abbott. Just look at any policy he has put forward and note how much it lacks in costings and details about how it will be implemented.Take for example his Direct Action plan. He will repeal the carbon tax and replace it with his own price on carbon for which he will charge the taxpayers plenty and it will not work! So where will the 15000 Green Army be located? How will they be helped by volunteers and others? Where will they be planting all the trees? How will he bury the carbon in the ground? What other technology does he have in mind? What will happen after 2020 when the LNP will have to reduce emissions by more than 5%? An ETS perhaps?

Start asking for details about any of the other policies and see if there are any real answers. The policies sound like they were made up by someone riding around on a bike! Three years wasted!

RoxrR:

lazarus:

22 Aug 2013 11:52:53am

Can you tell us what Fraudband is going to cost to implement, especially buying back the copper network after we paid to have it scrapped and the ongoing costs of the tens or hundreds of thousand nodes that will infest every street of Australia?.

harry:

22 Aug 2013 3:52:15pm

Remember, the thing that Labor supporters currently call Fraudband is a significant improvement over the system they were over the moon about when Rudd took it to the polls in 2007. The difference is that there is more detail than can fit on a napkin.

Andrew:

Pegaso:

22 Aug 2013 9:54:49pm

And Andrew lets not forget that it was the Janet Howard Glove Puppet that sold all of Telstra thats created a huge cost for NBN.If he had done the smart thing, the Labor thing and only sold the retail arm of Telstra we would be a lot better of at the moment tho we will be in the long run once its installed.

juliet jones:

22 Aug 2013 12:12:09pm

No you're right Graham, it's not close. Labor will win this election. Why doesn't Abbott answer about the final cost of the paid parental scheme for the rich and who will ultimately fund it? Whether Joe Hockey will carry through his threat to 'tinker' with the NDIS and also Gonski (he is not happy with either) and whether, as one Liberal pollie said recently, their policy on climate change really is planting a lot of trees-really? And as for 'turning back the boats' how, seriously, do they plan to do this because no one has said so far. That's their policies? There are a lot of questions to be answered and sure as hell Labor have to answer a lot of them and should. But Abbott and the Liberal Party want to rule this country and we need more than' Labor are bad, trust us.' At least I need more.

big joe:

22 Aug 2013 2:34:11pm

Oh dear Julia, I await with breathless anticipation your post on September the 9th. The ALP decimated, the Greens relegated to histories dustbin. But none of it was their fault, it's never their fault, it's all that dastardly MSN and Tony Abbotts fault. Why do you keep up the same old tired mantra of labor will win, labor won't win, after the slaughter they will be able to fit into the same phone box with what is left of Queensland labor. Be truthful and ask yourself why, I suppose a person of your distinctly superior intellect will say that the voters are all a bunch of morons and rednecks with the exception of the few remainig labor supporters. Still it will give you something to talk about down there at the coffee shop for the next few years.

Andie:

22 Aug 2013 3:18:33pm

One has to love the way the hypocrites on the left bleat about the "rich" and Abbotts capped PPL while condoning public servants earning up to $500,000 a year getting paid at their full pay rate on maternity leave AND receiving the current PPL on top.

Double dipping into tax payers money is OK with the luvvies but hell don;t have a plan to pay people on average earnings their full pay on maternity leave. No siree that is only for public servants and their double dipping

Elizabeth Rudlow:

22 Aug 2013 4:58:06pm

Then you'll be okay with Joe double dipping with the paid parental scheme won't you? Because that's what he will be doing. Go look at the policy...We'll be paying it for it twice and some of us paying certainly reared our children with no help and now we have to pay for women on $150K to have a baby. Bit rich eh-no pun intended.

Vincent:

22 Aug 2013 4:59:13pm

Tripple dipping to be accurate.

"...getting paid at their full pay rate on maternity leave AND receiving the current PPL on top"

And the convenience of being able to place their children of late in on-site work subsidised creches. At least one such example has been operating happily in Barton A.C.T. for many years. Although the staff who labor within the creche are not nearly as well off as the privileged parents of their charges.

James:

Kevin O'Lemon:

22 Aug 2013 3:57:27pm

That's what most in the audience thought too. But I think Rudd performed much better overall than in the previous debate, and Abbott did worse than before. I didn't see a clear winner this time, unlike last time when Abbott clearly won.

Albo:

22 Aug 2013 4:55:18pm

Abbott could hardly get a word in with the rude, desperate, bullying Rudd overriding the debate format, and yet Abbott still got the nod from the audience !Even with notes or domineering the people's forum debate format it seems Rudd can't land a blow on Abbott ! Game set and match !

struck dumb:

22 Aug 2013 1:29:56pm

Graham, I live in a capital city and have ADSL2+, and a lot of the time now I cannot access the internet. I cannot open a web page let alone access a video on YouTube. Can you explain why FTTN is worth it and what it will do for me?As for last night, it was the verbal bully vs the physical bully, and Abbott's well worn phrases didn't sound any more sincere that 10 years ago. He was right about one thing; he didn't actually cut money to the health sector - it just didn't keep up with inflation and increased costs to maintain its normal service. In other words, it was a budget cut that wasn't. Same outcome though..

Ataraxia:

Dee:

22 Aug 2013 4:27:55pm

Well! If Rudd didn't keep going on about Tony Abbott's coatings he wouldn't need to be talking about it?Does this Kevin Rudd ever shut up? And.... Where in hell is Rudd going to get his funds from? Borrow billions more or steal it from the people?

Kangaroo Edward:

22 Aug 2013 9:56:01am

Well "Bluey", we wait for the coalitions costings with anticipation but they will most likely be a fraud. Abbott's 'unscripted' outburst will be his 'Mark Latham handshake' moment. It begs the question; how does this guy deal with pressure, what will happen if this guy snaps?Going by their current campaign strategy, sweep it under the carpet and make glib excuses will be the most likely response.Most dads don't have Abbott moments!

Barry:

22 Aug 2013 1:29:52pm

So KE, Abbott ask a question if Rudd ever shuts up after a sting of les and ignoring the coasted facts of the policy. Rudd however verbally abused the makeup woman before the event. Rudd?s excuse is that it was a miss understanding. Bet the court has heard that excuse many times to defend actions against women. So Rudd now has a RAAF Stewardess and a Makeup Artist to his list of abuse, then there was that incident in the US.

Tiresias:

22 Aug 2013 5:18:23pm

So all of this election is about make-up people and hostesses? The LNP people here seem very sure about winning the election even though the polls hardly have daylight between the 2 main parties. Of course Newspoll is the one discussed because narratives can be made up about the tiny gap. But a poll such as Essential or Morgan offers little room for making up narrtives about who is winning and who is fading etc etc. So much commentary - but too often not so much about the realpolitik, more about the media show, sound bites and video, colour and movement.

Daisy May:

.the egg:

22 Aug 2013 8:50:08pm

Probably 37% completely blind LNP supporters, 35% Rusted on ALP and 33% who saw nothing much except a wallowing Abbott to give them any reason at all not to be an informal voter and probably wished they were somewhere else during the evening. On the odd occasion that this election has come up in conversation with friends it has proved almost impossible to have any intelligent discussion about policy etc . All I've heard is boats, debt, cuts and a highly personal dislike of both party leaders. We've plumbed new depths in Australian politics and I see no way out in the near furure.

nurarihyon:

22 Aug 2013 9:09:16pm

Can also be read this way too the egg, ''Probably 37% completely blind LNP supporters, 35% Rusted on ALP and 33% who saw nothing much except a wallowing Rudd to give them any reason at all not to be an informal voter and probably wished they were somewhere else during the evening.'

Andrew:

Applaudanum:

22 Aug 2013 11:16:11am

I see what you did there.

You criticise Rudd for not talking to the person who asked a question directly (you say 'never' but was that once or each and every time?), but congratulate Abbot for talking to the audience (but did he talk to the person asking the question each and every time?).

juliet jones:

22 Aug 2013 12:39:09pm

I think the people of Australia are going to be in for a shock if the costings and the policies of the Liberal Party add up-nothing they are saying is adding up so far. As for the debate, I thought that both Rudd and Abbott did okay so far as holding their own and saying what they wanted to say (not necessarily what we needed to hear) but naturally you have to make disparaging comments about the PM. That's Liberal voters for you.

freeway:

22 Aug 2013 3:27:17pm

You couldn't find more difference in the two leaders.Rudd being his rude self to the make up girl.Abbott being nice and chatty.Then today Abbott presenting a cheque for $140000 to the Manly Womens Shelter after raising money in his Pollie Pedal.I know the better man.

Tiresias:

22 Aug 2013 5:25:11pm

But the same man flying on charter flights to Aboriginal centres and charging $40,000 on his expense account iorder to get photo ops. And a snooze on one occasion. Was this the same man who charged $300 per day expenses on Pollie Pedal? And had to pay back $9000+ he claimed for travel while advertising his book?

ursus augustus:

Helvi:

22 Aug 2013 10:19:48am

No, not halitosis, it was Abbott, he still has to fill the space and time with endless repetitions...The pre-elections voting has already started, and Abbott has not yet his policies out of the bag (are there any?. What are those poor pre-voters voting for or against, not very democratic.

Albo:

22 Aug 2013 5:07:31pm

There is only one policy that any voter needs to consider and it is right out there now .....do you want another 3 years of that most incompetent of ALP governments ? You won't need to wait for the counting of the postal votes.The answer will be resounding, from the seat of Griffith to the whole of Tassie and WA, and the ALP will be wishing they had Gillard back !

Machiavelli's Cat:

22 Aug 2013 8:17:59am

After the 5 minutes of this insult (and the appalling performances by Bowen and Hockey on Q&A) that I managed to stomache I decided to vote for neither of the major parties. Describing this last debate as close to a dialogue is generous in the extreme.At least Rudd didn't go negative (sorry couldn't resist that joke). The sooner Oz politics is rid of both of these "Titans" the better off we all will, they demean this country.

Stirrer:

22 Aug 2013 10:06:36am

I think and certainly hope that many more are thinking of not voting for either of these two clowns and their respective circuses.Maybe if the silent majority did that the pollies may get the idea we want NO more spin, focus groups, polls, or "opinion" made up as news. Maybe if more of us switched off Fox and 7.30 they too may get the idea we want fact- not gossip-.

Pedro:

22 Aug 2013 11:36:42am

I agree that we are better off without these clowns. I really haven't yet decided about my vote on Sep 7, however, the more I see of Abbot and Rudd the more likely my local independent guy will be receiving an extra vote. I think this election will be closer than people think. I still believe about 20% haven't yet made up their minds and regardless of the Polls they won't make their decision until they are inside the booth. Some may even protest with their senate vote which could end up with another Green and Independently controlled Senate. Interesting times ahead thats for sure.

MJMI:

22 Aug 2013 12:05:35pm

Fortunately for me I live outside Australia at present so I am easily able to miss these "debates".

As an English teacher when I do see election news clips on Australia Network, my frequent thought is how the leaders debase the beauty and infinite variety available to English language speakers. Debate? You're correct to label them "appalling performances" because both leaders are miming words written by others.

Kevin O'Lemon:

Tiresias:

22 Aug 2013 5:32:21pm

Don't you just love the Murdochspeak? Murdoch preaches the idea of freedom of speech, but when somone says something they do not like, they lash out and tell them to shut up. We saw Abbott talking Murdochspeak, too.

Forrest Gardener:

Daisy May:

22 Aug 2013 1:53:30pm

FG:... Abbott is doing so well in the International sphere.. Last month already well known for his misogyny, and now this month known for his only criteria for female Liberal Party candidates for Parliament.."sex appeal."Oh.. and for telling Journalists and PM's to 'shut up' when he can't handle their questions.

Diligent Observer:

nurarihyon:

22 Aug 2013 9:19:02pm

'Well, that's the electorate for you - they just won't do what Rupert tells them to do, no matter HOW loud he screeches.'

What happened to the usual Labor 'the gullible masses which swallow the tripe RM has published' acolyte rant. No wonder people are mocking Labor sycophants everywhere on the net, when they can't even keep to the same message from the hymn book, while mocking people, instead of arguing why Australia should re-elect Labor.

Albo:

Daisy May:

22 Aug 2013 5:17:48pm

Well a certain female ABC commentator reluctantly gave the debate to Rudd... but not before saying that Abbott had the 'hard questions'.'The thing is' that the questions were not hard... it was answering them that Abbott objected to.

Eric:

Kevin O'Lemon:

22 Aug 2013 4:03:35pm

Right, its just like the "clear air" the ABC and Fairfax journos kept insisting Julia finally had, again and again and again before she was unceremoniously dumped. Rudd is going to lose badly but at least not as badly for Labor as it would've been if he hadn't come back.

Kangaroo Edward:

Andie:

22 Aug 2013 6:37:47pm

Typing error.

Of course the LNP knows who Warren MundinE is. He is that prominent Australian who resigned for the ALP and will fulfill a prominent role in the office of his friend Tony Abbott running the indigenous policy

Notfooled:

22 Aug 2013 1:08:22pm

Well said. I just whizzed through a few sites and Bolt has a lot on this episode. As Warren Mundine ( ex ALP President) said if you like Rudd, don't meet him because you won't afterwards, if you hate Abbott don't meet him because you will like him afterwards. So who should we have representing Aussies ? A lying, vengeful psychopath or a good decent bloke ? Why haven't Fairfax and the ABC reported this ? No bias indeed !

Andie:

Adelaide Rose:

22 Aug 2013 1:16:23pm

Was Rudd actually rude or was he, as he said, in the final moments of preparation and 'in the zone' and therefore not chatty, because there is in fact a hell of a difference? What was the make-up artists demeanour to the two leaders, was she friendlier and chattier to one and not the other? Did the make-up artist have a personal favourite beforehand anyway? Saying that some one was rude to you means absolutely nothing unless you can clearly define how the were rude to you. The other thing is, how convenient is her little short-lived spat immediately following a debate that the majority of media outlets suggested that Rudd won? You should never believe everything you hear, and only believe about half of what you see. Both leaders have a history of being rude when it suits them and when they get their noses put out of joint, but each and every case of 'rudeness' needs to be viewed in terms of its context.

Albo:

Reinhard:

22 Aug 2013 6:48:04pm

Rudd wasn't chatty, big deal?One of them was absolutely lovely, engaged in genuine conversation with me, acknowledge [sic] that I had a job to do and was very appreciative. The other did the exact opposite! Oh boy, I have ever [sic] had anyone treat me so badly whilst trying to do my job."

Notfooled:

22 Aug 2013 11:29:17am

Only in the ALP universe Helvi. The audience gave it to Abbott are the facts. Even Kevvie's invasion of Abbott's personal space, continued attacks based on lies and customary evasion on questions of substance couldn't swing it for him.

Tiresias:

22 Aug 2013 5:45:33pm

So it is all just a gambling game, eh? Why do the polls not reflect the gamblig odds? Why did the polls go from a slaughter for Labor to a neck and neck situation when Rudd replaced Gillard? And how many sure-fire 'winners' have been pipped at the post? The LNP has not been able to form govnt. after the past two elections.

Eric:

Myanard:

22 Aug 2013 8:19:47am

Melissa you are spot on exactly what is Abbott going to cut?Or do we have another socialist here who will Ruddlike have rising deficits and more humongeous debt?I suspect that Abbott is a serious fiscal conservative just like Rudd and that $300Bn of debt is a mere trifle.My ALP must sack Rudd and cut, cut, cut to the bone fairly as opposed to misogynist Abbott absolutely throwing money at pregnant women that we cannot afford.Only the ALP can get surplii and pay down debt fairly but my ALP needs another nation building act just as they sacked Gillard they must now sack Rudd. He has put the nation at risk with his deficits, debt & refugee deaths.Gotta zip & shuddup with a selfie. Bring it on.

Albo:

juliet jones:

22 Aug 2013 12:41:24pm

You've reversed the numbers but what the hell-the truth is always the first casualty with the Right. By the way, the PM still has to run the country-but that never occurred to you, did it? Maybe he had to go do something, you know, political.

Shebs:

22 Aug 2013 2:19:51pm

The numbers were not reversed: 37 for Abbott and 35 for Rudd is correct, and you and your ilk will claim the truth is a lie and what have you. I really didn't care myself, but your Rude Man Rudd was left flustered and hollow, despite a strong opening. Mind you, the make-up artist had the true experience of the man: an arrogant prig, well suited to modern Labor!

SVJ:

Chris:

22 Aug 2013 8:21:36am

Under persistent questioning about the funding of the Coalition's paid parental leave scheme.

Try again, it went from questioning to blatant spin despite being proven to be the lie it is by the gov appointed costing service. But as we have continually seen with Rudd, he will never let facts get in the way.

Not the cane toad:

Albo:

22 Aug 2013 5:34:40pm

Abbott gave clear responses to his PPL costings !Rudd simply tried to shamelessly confuse the audience with inane retorts to Abbott's answers. Rudd is a fraud, reliant on hoodwinking the naive, just to save some ALP furniture.

Jenny:

22 Aug 2013 1:33:54pm

Why does Rudd have a long history of verbally abusing women?? Latest being the makeup artist. How many men have used the defence that there was a misunderstanding before, or in the case of New York, I was drunk at the time, hmmmm.

big joe:

Daisy May:

22 Aug 2013 8:23:20am

Abbott..when under pressure to answer questions which he is either unable to, or doesn't want to, resorts to abuse of the questioner...Last night is the third time in recent times, when questioned in public, he lost it...

Abbott lost it with Channel 7 journalist Mark Riley... Who could forget the 57 seconds of mindless rage and head nodding when Abbott was confronted with a question for which he had been given many hours notice.

He lost it with The Guardian journalist Bridie Jabour when she persisted with a line of questioning, which Abbott refused to answer.

Last night Abbott lost it when Kevin Rudd persisted with a line of questioning that he found uncomfortable.

Just how is this behaviour Prime Ministerial.... It is not.. it is arrogant, it is weak, it shows that Abbott has no self control and is susceptible to cracking under the mildest pressure. Sure Rudd talks a lot.. but at least he answers the questions put to him without running away.

Reinhard:

22 Aug 2013 2:19:35pm

Forrest, lets consider the question regarding the standard of candidates: Rudd admitted standards that were low and pointed out just how Labor is working to address the problem.Abbott totally deflected the point of the question and then proceeded to spruik the attributes of his local candidate. So tell us who answered the question Forrest?

antipostmodernism:

22 Aug 2013 3:12:47pm

Oh dear, you picked the wrong day to bring up the issue of bullies. I expect to hear back from you denouncing Rudd for his bullying, misogynist treatment of the make-up artist. If you don't it will confirm that you have no conviction in your principles on this matter and that you are a hypocrite who is only concerned with political advantage for your team.

Daisy May:

22 Aug 2013 6:45:51pm

Abbott forgot to tell "Tilly" that as a Minister in the Howard government of 11 long years... his attitude to Paid Parental Leave was... 'over my dead body'..... He also forgot to tell her that there already is a Government funded PPL.... and what the hell was he doing discussing her future childbearing history with her?

Treetop:

22 Aug 2013 2:05:31pm

A lot of people get mixed up with being busy and being abrupt . Many people find it difficult just attending to the basics of life without the massive job of running a country as a prime minister with all the people they need to talk to in a day .I know CEO'S of large corporations who people say that their style is abrupt but the reality of the situation is that there are only so many hours in the day and they don't waste their day dishing out insincere charm to others and wasting time with idle talk instead of concentrating on the seriousness of their jobs .The prime ministers was preparing for a major debate at the time and would have had a lot on his mind . For example , if I was about to have a major operation , I would rather the surgeon to be A little bland and not very talkative to me and to do a really good job than to be over bubbling with charm and talk and about to make a major error in the operation .

spud:

22 Aug 2013 11:25:51am

Actually, given Rudd's constant negativity and relentless attack mentality, sprinkled with endless repetition of fallacies, and particularly given that it is only days ago that he gave a solemn promise to stop the negativity on his own part, Abbott voiced the question many are thinking; does this guy ever shut up?

Actually, I tell a fib; most of us would not have been so civil in making that observation.

spud:

22 Aug 2013 3:55:16pm

Rudd's problem is that he would have made a good diplomat; just peddle a line (usually minus the n) that suits whatever the problem is today. Abbott's problem is that he wouldn't have. Our problem is that too many people fall for the diplomat's li(n)es

spud:

Notfooled:

22 Aug 2013 11:39:20am

Sure Rudd talks a lot, priceless observation ! Answers the questions put to him ? C'mon, that is ridiculous or should I say Ruddiculous ! Not one straight answer could be heard in our household, just more blah, blah, blah. Rudd has self control you say ? History does not lie or do all his ex colleagues lie ?

Remember this:

True Blue Ozzie:

22 Aug 2013 12:50:21pm

I have to agree, at least Rudd gave us police's and costings .

Abbott well he wasted an hour on nothingness, for 3 years he's repeated the same old negativity tune over and over again! Honestly it's like listening to a toddler speak with limited language skills and you walk away not having not learned a single thing that's new!

Despite Abbott's denial Rudd was correct in his statement, that " Tony Abbott did say that in his opinion Mr Howard's best achievement in government was his WORK CHOICES" policy! This was confirmed on late line last night, yes we got to see the actual printed media!

Mr Abbott YOU LIED on national TV, how dare you ask for my trust and vote for you! From some one who claims to be a Christian, your values don't come anywhere near that class of Christian honesty!It's clear from last night's debate that lies just roll off your tounge with mo shame or guilt

Remember this:

Treetop:

22 Aug 2013 1:08:07pm

And also when Bernie Bantram was dying of asbestosis and was trying to help others just before he died and was outside Mr Abbott's electoral office and Mr Abbott said what Bernie was doing was only a stunt

James:

Alphamikefoxtrot:

22 Aug 2013 2:06:38pm

Poor Kevin lost it even before the debate started! Madly shuffling through his notes (by his own admission) while having his make up done (trying to hide the triple chin) and being his usual vile, obnoxious self to the make up lady. Clearly not across his brief nor up to the job.

Forrest Gardener:

Daisy May:

22 Aug 2013 7:33:24pm

Well... what did the Prime Minister actually say to the woman?How do you know that she is telling the truth?You cannot answer either of those questions... any more than Abbott can answer how he is going to pay for his Rolls Royce Paid Parental Leave scheme for millionaire women of calibre.

Albo:

22 Aug 2013 5:42:06pm

Just like Rudd's cheating with notes in the first debate, last night he resorted to being the questioner in the format that was meant to be questions from the audience ! The man is shameless in his abuse of the political process, as he strives to domineer anyone who stands in his way to satisfying his ego, whether that be Gillard, Abbott or any debate host !Any wonder his real ministry has walked out on him !

Sarah:

22 Aug 2013 10:34:38am

You forgot to mention that Rudd was wearing knuckle dusters as opposed to boxing gloves. The liar showed his true narcissistic colours. No wonder so many people that work for/with Rudd hate him and that many MPs refuse to be in his cabinet. Guess that the ALP NSW right will repeat history for a third time if Rudd fools enough gullible people with his transparent lies and spin. Shorten must be rubbing his hands with glee.

Zing:

Rudd clearly lacks the ability to deliver a knockdown blow. This debate was decided on points and barely so. Not the decisive victory that Rudd wants this late in the game.

Abbott has a good chin. A whole bunch of gaffes and hits, but he's still standing strong.

Not sure about Rudd, though. If he takes one solid blow, he'll be down for the count. And even if he somehow manages to finish the final rounds without getting touched, people aren't expecting any landslide victories from him.

As the saying goes "If Rudd was going to make it, he'd have made it by now".

Sarah:

Tiresias:

22 Aug 2013 5:59:51pm

It is the favourite word used by LNP people: lie. Everything said by non-LNP people is a 'lie' and therefore of the Left/Socialist/Communist conspiracy. The reason is of course that people of the rRght cannot understand that most everything is left of the LNP. And there are opinions out there which do not coincide with LNP thinking! Surprise, surprise! The conservative side finds it difficult to understand that the world is changing...

Reinhard:

Applaudanum:

22 Aug 2013 4:57:51pm

The thing is, zing, we aren't watching the match from ringside seats. Instead, we're all watching the match through the media. Furthermore, the largest player in the media caper stands to lose buckets of money if one particular combatant triumphs. Given that the viewers ultimately decide who wins the bout, the editing, framing and commentary within the broadcast is all important. Rudd never seems to deliver the knockout blow because the media quickly edits, reframes and comments over the footage so that it appears the knockout blow doesn't land. We thus begin to hear lots and lots about how Rudd is using dirty tactics, 'fresh from their successful application in white-anting, destroying and backstabbing the former PM in a relentless three year campaign', whilst 'Abbott is proving himself to be the strongest political candidate the country has seen in a decade. He really is weathering the storm, ladies and gentlemen. A valiant effort amidst such below-the-belt and unsporting tactics'.

The broadcast doesn't stop there. Replays are more important than ever and we're given many more replays showing Abbott triumphs and Rudd failings than the opposite. Just imagine what the media would do if Rudd was caught on camera saying things along the lines of:

'In the heat of an exchange, you can't expect everything that was said to be accurate''I have both read and not-read the document you are referring to''It was a computer glitch that caused me to divulge information at a time that I shouldn't have had it'

Furthermore, just imagine what the media would do with footage of Rudd consistently refusing to answer a direct question and going as far as to totally ignoring the question in a bizarre nodding silence. The media would have a field day. The footage would be on high rotation if Rudd had been caught out doing any one of the above, let alone all of them.

Seeing as Rudd is rarely caught out on camera, the media commentary focuses on 'what people are saying about Rudd'. No evidence, no documents, no footage, just what people are saying about Rudd. Take a look at this very thread where Liberal supporters are clamouring over the brand new thing that someone else has said about Rudd.

Joseph B:

22 Aug 2013 4:44:04pm

Rudd looks like a punch drunk fighter who is down in points in the final rounds and needs a knockout so he starts swinging wildly and misses. Abbott throws a sucker punch with the does the guy ever stop talking and Rudd does a nice counter.It was a closer match than the first one with Abbott winning on points. Rudd's career will be over in 3 weeks and he knows it.

Ricky:

mushroom:

22 Aug 2013 8:25:44am

Are we ever going to stop playing little America deputy sheriff the number of people who would change their voting intention based on an Americanised televised debate would not change the outcome of a single seat . And no I did not watch it.

David:

22 Aug 2013 10:42:58am

I didn't watch it either. The Americanization of Australian elections and election reporting is now complete and I have no more interest in watching two performers trade cliches and platitudes on a 'town hall' stage. I not a member of the media. I want to see policy, not sparks and fisticuffs and 'gotcha' one liners.

Not the cane toad:

22 Aug 2013 11:28:56am

You didnt watch the debate Mushroom?

Let me tell you what happened......

When the questions got a bit hard, a desperate Abbott told Rudd to shut up in an attempt to deflect attention away from the blatantly obvious fact that he had no idea of how he was going to make up the shortfall in his fanciful PPL scheme.

Dee:

Applaudanum:

22 Aug 2013 5:04:21pm

Which is a completely normal thing to say in a debate. 'We're hear to talk to you, ladies and gentlemen. Does this other guy ever shut up?'

Abbott didn't tell Rudd or the audience that he'd already answered Rudd's questions satisfactorily. He didn't even say that Rudd wasn't giving him a chance to speak. Abbott was clearly trying to get the audience on side by likening Rudd to a motor-mouth know-it-all.

juliet jones:

22 Aug 2013 12:43:19pm

No, because you've already made up your mind to vote Liberal. Some people haven't and are still debating the merits of both sides and thinking about the Greens as well. Not all cut and dried for some people mushroom.

Albo:

22 Aug 2013 6:00:42pm

Anyone who hasn't made up their mind was not watching the debate ! They never bother with politics at all, that's why they are undecided ! They will pick the best looking one on their how to vote forms on polling day !

Barry:

22 Aug 2013 8:26:03am

The real Rudd has now come back in the open. He will lie and spin against anyone that stands up to him. He is a bully and as a consequence does not care that his lie exposed for what it is. This is not the acts of a nerdy little kid that he wants the gullible to believe he is. Guess he had three years betraying the ALP and Gillard to hone the venom of his natural character.

Denny:

22 Aug 2013 10:39:44am

According to the lady who did the make-up for both leaders the real Kevin Rudd is definitely back. Rude obnoxious ungrateful. Too full of self importance to show common decency. Abbott on the other hand was a gentleman who engaged in pleasant conversation and was grateful for assistance. That for me highlights the difference in the two men and enforces the notion that if you like Rudd make sure you don't meet him and if you don't like Abbott then steer clear. A meeting would change your mind on both men.

Randy Rabbit:

Frankly, Denny, I don't CARE what their personality is like. It's a very minor aspect of the whole personality of somebody who's putting his hand up to run the country.

I care far more whether he's on top of the topic and has his facts and figures ready to recite when questioned.

Last night, that was Mr Rudd.

If Mr Abbott actually knew (doubtful at best) how he was planning to fund the other half of his wasteful PPL scheme, but wouldn't say so, then that's another point against him for being sneaky, secretive and untrustworthy.

Sarah:

Applaudanum:

22 Aug 2013 6:05:23pm

Please list the particular actions that amounted to destroying the party from the inside and knifing the former PM.

It's a common claim around here, but noone seems to have seen anything. Imagine being an eyewitness to a real knifing. The police ask you what you saw and all you could say was 'Well, that guy on the radio said it was him'.

awake:

22 Aug 2013 8:27:19am

As much as I hate to admit it Rudd won the night. Abbott look like he was floundering.

No real substance from Abbott just vague "it'll cover about half the cost". If I stood before my board of director and gave such limp answers to their financial questions I would be very much out of a job.

And we had the old "stop the boats - nuke the asylum seekers" a bit painful.

spud:

22 Aug 2013 4:04:15pm

Somewhat selective interpretation. All Royal Commissions need to have limits to their powers, because without them, they simply become witch hunts and star chambers where anyone and everyone, even those with absolutely nothing to do with what is being investigated, can be dragged in and destroyed with impunity. You mention that Ministers weren't allowed to appear at the AWB Royal Commission. Did it occur to you that you weren't allowed to either, and for the same reasons?

awake:

spud:

22 Aug 2013 4:10:46pm

That is incorrect. The people of Australia are the shareholders, not the board. We don't run the country, we vote for a board of polys and they run the country. However, unlike business boards which are required by law to tell the truth and not mislead, government is actually allowed by law to lie and mislead. They are lying scum who will do anything to be re-elected.

AlexA:

Sue B:

22 Aug 2013 2:16:02pm

As opposed to the real loss of 30 Billion the ALP produced in 8 weeks. You also choose to ignore that the treasury have a habit of applying unrealistic predictions that cover the ALP waste and the reverse to give the ALP ammunition for their lie campaigns.

Honest Johnny:

22 Aug 2013 2:56:18pm

I think he was simply trying to recreate Ronald Regan's moment in a debate against President Jimmy Carter. Regan said "there you go again". It completely floored Carter and won him the debate. Last night's comment would have been thought up by some Liberal smart alec to emulate that moment, but without the delivery style and timing of a Hollywood movie star, it fell flat and made Abbott look like he had snapped.

Give us a break:

J:

Any fair minded person would agree the effect was still the same...derogatory, highly insulting and quite frankly an act of stupidity.

My 12 year old in her debating class would never consider such a rebuttal.

But what's meant to be a educated upstanding political leader potentially set for the world stage as PM, and you want to argue that the words " does this man ever shut up" is somehow a mature acceptable response.

Smith:

CameronD:

22 Aug 2013 12:51:00pm

The other thing that will hurt Rudd is his shabby treatment of the makeup artist Lily Fontana. This is not the first time he has treated a woman he considers below his station poorly. Remember the flight attendent.

spud:

22 Aug 2013 3:39:13pm

Do you know I can't find a single reference to this shameful episode on the ABC except in your post? Far less that this ordinary Australian carrying out her work duties has been bullied and harassed into deleting her observations from Twitter. But if it had been Abbott implicated in this behaviour, it would be utterly impossible to miss the story; it would be absolutely top story front page news.

So much for the unbiased reporting by our ABC of what is happening in this election.

Joseph B:

22 Aug 2013 4:50:38pm

I believe Abbott planned the comment "Does the guy ever shut up" before the so called debate because the focus groups said that is the headline the Australian public wants to hear coming out of the debate. I think his timing of the comment could have been better.I saw something from Rudd others haven't really commented on when he walked into Tony Abbot's personal space he looked like a bully trying to intimidate his opponent.

These debates are rarely about issues, more about appearance. So far the headlines read:

Sue:

22 Aug 2013 8:34:17am

Yet again the snake oil salesman proves he has nothing of substance to campaign on during his time as PM. All he has in negativity and lies to peddle. Is it no wonder the ALP knifed him last time. Guess Shorten gets the honours of knifing him soon after Rudd fools the enough people to regain power.

the yank:

Fred:

22 Aug 2013 1:44:12pm

And the answer you refuse to accept is that the release of the costings before the last week just gives the incumbent the advantage as wee saw last time where the ALP distorted reality as part of its smear campaign. I bet unlike the ALP that the costings won't come out on the day befor the poll as Rudd then Gillard did last time.

Sue:

22 Aug 2013 2:21:06pm

He has answered them liar. They wuill be released in the last week after all of the policies have been released and you can bet unlike the last two elections they will not be released one day before the poll as is the ALP style.

Claire:

22 Aug 2013 10:27:22am

Strange, I have been telling the kids not to lie, but we have had 6 years of ALP lies and excuses. As to telling Rudd to shut up, if you both to tell the truth to your grandchildren, Abbott actually said "does he ever shut up?????????????". Totally different to your spin.

big joe:

22 Aug 2013 12:37:01pm

Get it right China, he didn't tell Rudd to shut up, he merely asked the question "does this guy ever shut", most of the audience laughted, Rudd looked piqued and the rest of us were agreeing with Abbott. Someone posted the other day that Rudd will start running a neg and beg campaign, we're certainly seeing the neg, next week perhaps the beg as it starts to occur to Kev that his ego is bigger than his capabilities and he's heading for a Queensland style labor wipeout.

Notfooled:

22 Aug 2013 3:24:24pm

Ask Lilly the makeup lady last night who the real gentleman is Ol China, viral on the Net, not that Aunty is putting it up, or Warren Mundine or many, many people. I for one, do NOT want Rudd as our most embarrassing PM ever for another 3 long years. He is truly creepy and a proven liar and not just once but many times. Is he really a role model for grandchildren ?

Alpo:

22 Aug 2013 10:52:36am

But the stewardess was allowed to publicly speak afterwards... under Abbott she would be told to "shut up"!!!... Very BIG difference, Nicole!... Don't believe me? Just watch Abbott's performance to understand!

big joe:

22 Aug 2013 1:32:59pm

What an outright lie Alpo, the aircrew member concerned, being a member of the Defence Force was not permitted to make a public statement. A very big difference Alpo, to the best of my knowledge TA didn't tell anyone to shut up, he simply asked the audience "does this guy ever shut up", very big difference , stop being so precious.

Alpo:

big joe, don't lecture anybody about lying, mate, when you are lying yourself!

"But the report by the Commander of the VIP fleet, Group Capt Peter Wood, leaves no doubt about Mr Rudd's behaviour."... She obviously reported to the commander, she certainly didn't shut up!

Abbott DID tell Rudd to "shut up". But he did so in a way that was less blunt. Can you imagine had he looked at Rudd and said "You just shut up!"... that would have been the end of his dreams of destroying this country as a PM. Instead, he masked the "shut up" inside a relatively (read again: relatively) more gentle wording, but the message is exactly the same. He is well rehearsed and behind him there is obviously a pretty big team of public opinion manipulators.

The man is a disgrace and a menace to our Democracy... but the people are waking up!

big joe:

22 Aug 2013 8:43:04pm

Alpo, there is a world of difference between reporting to her commanding officer and making a public statement. I repeat that she did not make a public statement and I challenge you now to prove me wrong. Consider yourself lectured.

antipostmodernism:

22 Aug 2013 1:34:15pm

By now you might know about the make up artist before the debate who says Rudd treated her badly. At lunchtime this is front page of online Fairfax and Murdoch papers. This is a disaster for Labor and exposes to ordinary people the difference between the fake Rudd before a camera, and the loathsome real Rudd shortly before he took to the stage who can't manage real relationships. The air hostess story will be dredged up too. Its all over.

OverIt:

22 Aug 2013 2:26:59pm

It seems that YOU need to watch the debate again, Alpo. What Abbott actually said was "Does this guy ever shut up?". Something we were all wondering, since Rudd was more often than not unable to stop speaking at the end of his allocated time. He didn't TELL him to shut up - big difference.

Alphamikefoxtrot:

Eric:

Alpo:

22 Aug 2013 6:42:15pm

To all of the above. Watch the video again indeed. Abbott did tell the PM to shut up in a way that was less damning but equally effective nonetheless. Everybody outside the Liberal loony circle saw the trick, I can only hope that the good citizens of this country saw it too, because this man is a menace to our Democracy.... Are you guys with him?.... Shame!

the yank:

22 Aug 2013 10:56:38am

Are you saying that Abbott is such a delicate thing that he can't take direct questions and give direct answers?

He did finally admit that his paid parental scheme is not going to be paid in full by the levy so that is something. Just a bit rich that it has taken half the election to get around to telling us that information.

Nicole:

22 Aug 2013 1:51:24pm

He answered the question with information we already knew, confirmed that the costins had already been verified by the gov appointed body and still rudd continued his lies and negativity. The adjudicator should have shut rudd down. As to the lie people like you push, he never told rudd to shut up, he asked the audience if rudd ever shuts up. Apparently not.

As to being delicate, spare a thought for the makeup artist he abused before the debate, yet another woman in a long line of recorded abuse full behaviour.

Reinhard:

22 Aug 2013 4:32:10pm

Forrest thanks for admitting that Abbot lied, since he had already admitted that half the PPL was unfunded..KEVIN RUDD: You don't get to $5.5 billion that way, you just don't.TONY ABBOTT: Well, I'm sorry, the Parliamentary Budget Office disagrees with you.KEVIN RUDD: Just one final point on this.DAVID SPEERS: Very quickly.TONY ABBOTT: Jeez, does this guy ever shut up?KEVIN RUDD: No, we're having a discussion, mate, we're having a discussion.

Forrest Gardener:

Reinhard:

OUB :

22 Aug 2013 11:05:00am

There is a story out from AAP about the makeup artist's Facebook entry after looking after Rudd and Abbott. There was a very strong resonance with the stewardess incident as far as Rudd goes. I expect it will reverse any gains Rudd may have made in the debate.

Claire:

Daisy May:

22 Aug 2013 5:47:18pm

Claire... Murdoch's mate and the man in charge of winning this election for his master.. Col Allen.. was the guy who took Rudd to the Club.... he is on the record as saying that Rudd was well behaved..... but don't let the truth get in the way of a nasty smear will you.

Jungle Boy:

OUB :

22 Aug 2013 4:56:08pm

Rudd didn't dispute it J Boy. The woman was embarrassed the entry received so much publicity and took it down. Rudd said something along the lines of 'no hard feelings'. Perhaps he'll get around to an apology after a bit of prompting. Then again that might conflict with his self-image as a messiah.

Daisy May:

OUB :

23 Aug 2013 9:46:21am

She was a freelancer with no job security. She was writing for her friends and acquaintances. Someone apparently decided her thoughts deserved a wider audience. I am sure she was afraid that the disclosure would make her political and damage her employability. Phew! Now minor celebrities can act like complete tossers with support people undisturbed, free from thhe risk of being exposed as the inadequate people they are. You must be delighted DM. We can only imagine what your response would have been if Abbott had demeaned the young woman. You'd be screaming from the rooftops about sexism wouldn't you?

Realist:

22 Aug 2013 8:45:48am

Mr Rudd's performance typifies his Government's performance. All show and no go. It's all about the future, lets forget about the last 6 years. "A New Way". Well according to the facts most of their plans and predictions have failed. We will stop illegal immigration, the mining tax will bring the Nation untold wealth (BTW we will spend it first), our budget will be in surplus in 2010, 2011, 2013, our deficit this year will be $3b, no $17b hang-on it will be $30b because we are honest, and no I will never stand for leader again (BTW that's the same knife she used). And lets ad the NBN. Started off as a few billion. Then a new plan $30b but don't worry it's off the balance sheet! $60b anyone? Gonski, NDIS - it's ok it's all money we spend in the future!

So Kevin07, the Emperor has no clothes. You are what you are, running on empty!

Pedro:

22 Aug 2013 11:46:55am

Things are bad under this government are they? We have the strongest economy in the world and one of only 8 triple AAA ratings! I've never had it so good - my interest rates are so low that I've been paying loads off my mortgage and my credit cards are gone. I can buy stuff on the internet at half what I used to pay. if the coalition is elected I wonder what those people in the Western Suburbs will do to Abbot after their services are cut, 20% of them lose their jobs and interest rates begin to climb and destory their way of life? One term if they are lucky.

juliet jones:

22 Aug 2013 12:47:42pm

Okay, you've ripped into the PM-what about Abbott? An inferior NBN, no climate change policy because as he has says, climate change is crap, no real interest in Gonski, only going along with the NDIS because he had to, against gay marriage, a really nasty attitude to asylum seekers...that all okay with you? You're easily pleased.

Dave:

22 Aug 2013 11:06:16am

Rudd won't want all the costings because his policies are not costed. How quickly you choose to forget that Rudd hands in his policies for costing on the day before the poll as did Gillard, the PM he knifed.

A happy little debunker:

nurarihyon:

22 Aug 2013 12:51:04pm

Agree the yank, I'd like to see the 'costings, cuts, policies out there for everyone to see' as well. But from both major parties, why should one have to release them all and the other not till the day before the election as per the party's track record.

Phil Herd:

22 Aug 2013 8:55:11am

Mr Abbott was on the button when he said of Mr Rudd ?Does this guy ever shut up?. Rudd thinks he is the centre of the universe and is thrashing around because the polls say the opposite. In trying to prove he is the centre of the universe he seeks attention and adoration by talking incessantly because he believes what he has to say is far more enthralling and more important than anything anyone else has to say. The trouble for Mr Rudd is that he is telling too many lies either by claiming credit for Labor?s economic management when deficit on top of deficit is all that the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd governments have achieved or for example justifying the dismantling of Howard?s border protection regimes because he had a ?mandate? from the electorate ? which is an out and out lie. Rudd?s claim that just like Premier Newman Abbott will cut, cut cut is based on sums produced by Ms Wong who has an appalling record as Finance Minister. Lying to achieve popularity and making promises of spending billions in an attempt to please as many people as possible is not the way into the Lodge. Mr Rudd?s principle fear is rejection and when rejected he seeks vengeance. He demonstrated this characteristic by spending 3 years undermining Ms Gillard and he is adopting the same ploy against Mr Abbott. Rudd asks people to trust him but in order to please people he is telling too many lies and no one is going to trust him when he keeps on lying.

Rob.T:

jaycee:

22 Aug 2013 8:55:27am

Of course we are going to end up with accusative / defensive debates when the MSM. always focus's on the fatuous and trivial rather than supplying analysis of the greater issues confronting the nation.If the leaders won't lead, it is beacuse the media wont follow the leads....what about the emerging Ashbygate details?

Manny:

22 Aug 2013 8:55:30am

Tony Abbott claimed a budget emergency. yet he is splashing 5.5billion for a few with his Maternity payment scheme. Think of the many medical services that could be made available to the public. He is happy to cut the school kids bonus which helps families with the cost of living pressures to an extant with regards to cost of text books and uniforms for the school kids. It brings to mind the money wasted on medical benefits covering out of pocket expenses for the wealthy under Tony Abbot. The millions wasted at that time under his stewardship was okay because it got spent on the wealthy. Last night's debate he would not lay out where he would take the money from to fund his maternity payments admitting the levy will help cover only half the costs. I will not be voting for you Mr Abbott

Notfooled:

22 Aug 2013 11:43:42am

So Manny, only public service employees and those in big businesses are entitled to this when they have children ? Abbott wants every woman to have the same right, sounds pretty fair to me but it should be capped at say $45k and the difference used to get more child care in place.

Caroline:

22 Aug 2013 8:57:18am

Abbott lost this when he virtually told rudd to "shut-up". Abbott was aggressive and unstatesmanlike. It appears Mr Abbott doesnt like to pushed to answer uncomfortable questions and when he is forced into a corner he cracks.Not a good look Mr Abbott.Murdoch media pals will all play this for a laugh but there is a serious overtone. Mr Abbott needs to get a grip and when things don't go his way stop resorting to insults or running away - which he has got away with unchallenged for several years.

Ray Manta:

antipostmodernism:

22 Aug 2013 12:03:33pm

'I think the GREENS clearly won without being allowed to say a word.'

I think you are right but for the wrong reason. Imagine for example Milne claiming the flood of boats is all push factors whilst arguing for rapid onshore processing. Embarrassing. This fringe looney party would be taken apart in a public forum of ordinary people. The best they can hope for is parked votes from dislike of the major parties.

llanfair:

22 Aug 2013 9:07:13am

While I think both men performed better this time around, I believe Abbott lost the opportunity to negate Rudd on paid parental leave (PPL) by challenging Rudd to agree that whoever wins the election, their PPL scheme will replace the current Federal Scheme. Clearly, if the LNP scheme is "inequitable" then the current Federal Scheme is even more so. Why should private sector workers fund an uncapped Federal Scheme while accepting a "dole" payment themselves?

If the LNP wins, some senior Bureaucrats would find their benefit reduced but both private and public sector workers would receive the same deal. If Labor wins we would accept that the country cannot afford "overly generous"PPL benefits and both public and private sector workers would get the same deal (a lower flat level).

mudlark:

22 Aug 2013 12:47:09pm

What uncapped federal scheme?Federal Public servants get 12 -14 weeks of paid leave. Some private companies pay 12 weeks. Yes you can take a year off but you only get paid for the first 12-14 weeks. So if you take 6 months (26 weeks) you get in reality a bit more around the half pay mark. Similar to the LNP scheme.

antipostmodernism:

22 Aug 2013 9:08:35am

Here is the judgement of the makeup artist to both leaders.

'One of them was absolutely lovely, engaged in genuine conversation with me, acknowledge that I had a job to do and was very appreciative. The other did the exact opposite! Oh boy, I have ever had anyone treat me so badly whilst trying to do my job. Political opinions aside...from one human being to another...Mr Abbott, you win hands down'.

Not the cane toad:

antipostmodernism:

22 Aug 2013 12:17:30pm

Galaxy Research chose the audience and the questions. They have had a shocker haven't they? Several of those questioners looked straight out of flouncy bourgeois Greens/Labor hipster central casting. Like a Q&A audience with a few bum notes of real people. These sorts really only swing between Labor and Greens. They like to think of themselves as 'undecided' to flatter themselves that they are open minded, when you know they will never vote LNP on sight. They are really there to make sure the Left dominates proceedings. Some stereotypes just don't disappoint.

Rusty:

22 Aug 2013 6:25:04pm

Not,

Actually "Tone" performed very well given he was put in a deliberate ambush.

The three bogans who asked the leftie questions - the two shrill "lady" hippies in their corny 60's shawls and one large monosyllabic singlet wearing male union thug, failed to unnerve "The Tone"...in fact they only confirmed my opinion of the typical Qld ALP/Green voter...must be the heat frying their brains...

So yes clothing is a dead give away as to one's personal values...dress like a bogan then you will considered a bogan...

Reinhard:

TrevorN:

22 Aug 2013 9:17:46am

I was not expecting too much to come out of this "debate" but it turned out a lot better than the 1st one. To my mind Rudd did a lot better than Abbott who I thought was just too slippery and evasive when answering questions from the supposedly undecided voters in the audience. Tony did not help his cause when he lost his cool and told Rudd to shut up.

The coalition are definetly in trouble over their reluctance to relaese their costings and in particular their inability to say how they will fully fund their maternity leave plan. Abbott evaded the question on same sex marriage and he was dodgy when asked about workchoices.

Rudd performed better but was dancing around the edges with some of his feel ggod answers. He is always going to have trouble over the boat people issue and the deficit but gave some plausible explanations. When Tone told him to shut up, Rudd looked like the cat that swallowed the canary.

(I still think the minor parties, the Greens and the Nationals, should have been at the table too.)

juliet jones:

Caroline:

22 Aug 2013 12:52:37pm

Big Joe, Abbott is immature and unprofessional. Sky News said Rudd spoke for 15 seconds more than Abbott - the problem was not that Rudd was speaking more, the problem was Abbott didnt like the line of questioning.

Abbott can't keep his cool under fire and that is not a quality that should be missing in a prospective PM. Abbott had been insisting for weeks that the business levy would pay for the parental leave scheme, but Rudd forced him to admit it would only pay for half.

Abbott lost the moment those rude words came out of his ill-mannered mouth.

Joe Blow:

22 Aug 2013 9:25:51am

Tellingly, the supposed "man of the people" scarpered for the exit door as soon as it was over, while Abbott stayed to mingle and was mobbed.

Labor now claiming Abbott was aggressive, despite Rudd spending half the night waiving his arms in Abbott's face and interrupting - next they'll be claiming that Rudd is actually a woman and Abbott was being a mysogenist.

Macca:

22 Aug 2013 9:28:00am

I see Kevvie hasn't stopped telling porkies. For the last time 14000 public servants were not sacked from their jobs in Queensland. The true figure was about 4000 involuntary redundancies, none of which were permanent employees.

Tropical:

macca:

22 Aug 2013 2:46:43pm

No, it was 4320 to be precise. The rest were vacant untenured positions, voluntary retirement, unrenewed contracts, returns to substantive positions, employment agency employees and voluntary transfers. Despite labors continued hysteria and outright lies not one permanent Queensland public servant has made involuntarily redundant.

Buffalo Bill:

22 Aug 2013 12:46:27pm

Not only that, what about the huge debt the previous government racked up? When was that going to be fixed? Lets face it, the state was effectively stone cold broke, not a penny in the drawer. And that's Campbell's fault?

If you can't afford the Ferrari, you going to have to make do with the Falcon until you can afford it.

Sue:

22 Aug 2013 2:26:58pm

And another 900 public servants are to lose their job as announced today and thousand have already been lost due to Rudd's so called efficiency drives. The telling point however is unlike Queensland the unions and hence the press have been silent on Rudd sacking people!!!!!

chipinga:

22 Aug 2013 9:29:04am

Last night we saw a PM looking more desperate and acting like a well..opposition leader out to attack the imcumbant PM.

Rudd simply cannot rely on his or his governments past record..frankly it's too awful to reveal, rather Rudd is left with the scare campaign and a bunch of though bubble polices on the run while promising buckets of cash along with it which in reality is only boosting Abbott chance as the next PM....cause the public ai'nt stupid and fall for his spin and con a second time around.

For what it's worth according to polls run 89% of Australians have already decided who they want..the other 9% will most likely be distributed 50/50 to the major parties..net result..game over for Rudd.

Joe Blow:

Re- the Whyalla statement - it was made by a UNION heavy weight. Do you luvvies just not read the news or do you think Unions are pro-Abbott? Seriously.

"THE state's two key industrial cities will be "wiped off the map" by a carbon tax, a major union warns.

The tax would strip thousands of jobs from Whyalla and Port Pirie, the Australian Workers Union state secretary Wayne Hanson said.

The internal revolt from Labor's industrial heartland threatens not just the reform but the Government's survival.

Mr Hanson yesterday stepped up his union's opposition to the tax, claiming the future of both cities would be in serious doubt because both had economies based on the high-emission production of steel, iron ore and zinc.

Reinhard:

Keith:

22 Aug 2013 9:30:08am

Abbott spoke for most us : Rudd is all talk and no action, not even sufficiently proud of his achievements in government base his campaign on his own record, or Gillard's. No amount of words pitched toward a rosy future will cover up the waste, mismanagement and corruption that have become Labor's signature principles of the last 6 years. Goodbye Kevin, and enjoy your generous taxpayer-funded pension and perks, and your wife's wealth, while we the taxpayer continue to pay down the national debt, if we can.

juliet jones:

22 Aug 2013 12:52:22pm

Abbott didn't speak for me and neither do you. The Liberal Party hacks on these forums seems utterly desperate to convince everyone of the greatness of Tony and the potential Liberal Party landslide victory, but that's not what I am hearing on the street and I live in Western Sydney.

Notfooled:

22 Aug 2013 3:30:59pm

Down here in the Illawarra it's quite the opposite JJ, ALP rusted on's looking for some way to vote ALP but not for the Biggest Goose ever. Independent candidate with Trade Union background coming home with a wet sail here.

juliet jones:

big joe:

22 Aug 2013 6:49:59pm

Still keeping the faith Juliet, never mind precious it will soon all be over and you will have heaps to whinge about for the next three years. You would do better keeping out of the coffee shops and talking with real people.

Adelaide Rose:

22 Aug 2013 2:03:33pm

Wouldn't have been better if Abbott had just answered the damn question instead of ducking an weaving.?It's his signature policy and he couldn't just say where the money was coming from, he only had to be able to add up to 5.5 (rounded numbers would have been fine)

Honest Johnny:

22 Aug 2013 3:11:10pm

Keith, So far Abbott has told us he'll reduce the debt but he hasn't told us how he will do it at the same time as making huge tax cuts, abolishing some big taxes and adding $ billions of expenditure with the paid parental leave scheme. That's a hellofalot of REVENUE being sliced from the budget. Whatever cuts he makes and whatever waste he saves will not make up for the loss of revenue. It will take rates as high as China to make up the revenue from economic growth. So, you see Keith? This national debt that worries you so much, is about to get a lot worse.

Giles:

22 Aug 2013 9:30:23am

Abbott explained how the PPL is to be funded twice. Rudd kept saying that Abbott wouldn't explain when he clearly had. Abbott was entitled to ask Rudd to "shut up". The moderator clearly failed in his responsibility by allowing Rudd to go on when the question had been answered.

That wasn't Rudd's only lie in the debate as we know from the fact checking organisations. Examples of those are the $70Bn debt lie and the one about Abbott ripping off $1Bn from the hospitals.

In response Rudd couldn't explain why his government had taken $1.5Bn out of the hospitals this year.

Abbott performed well in front of a progressive audience asking some tough questions.

Give us a break:

Honest Johnny:

22 Aug 2013 9:30:54am

Abbott clearly tried to do a Ronald Regan ("there you go again") last night. It would have been premeditated, but it didn't have the same force of delivery as that coming from a Hollywood movie star. I think he got his timing wrong and it came across like he simply snapped. Back to the drawing board.

Paulh:

22 Aug 2013 2:56:30pm

NDIS is basically a copy of the WA scheme and as yet is only being trialled , as yet a comprehensive list of who is or isn't covered is yet to be released. Climate change has gone from the Highest carbon tax in the world to an announcement that Rudd has scrapped it, yet its going to become an ETS if it gets through parliament mid next year it has gone up from $23 to $24.50 a tonne and projected by Rudd to go to $38 hammering the cost of living with no measurable effect on global temps.school bonus was already there except people had to supply receipts where as Rudd gives the max to all instead of on a needs basis.Fair work Act has hammered business and added massive costs and restrictions,also stacked with ex union cronies.The NBN just blew out by $5 Billion and still does not have a full cost analysis .the BER is still not finished 4 years after the gfc,$900 cheques Still being handed out again 4 years after the gfc.the FBT has harmed between 300,000 and 500,000 working Australians along with the car leasing business and car manufacturers, then we have the numerous failed policies, loft insulation, set top boxes, green loans, fuel watch,grocery watch, along with the missing super clinics. We also have the debacle of approx 1000 lost lives and $11 Billion wasted by scrapping immigration laws that worked. The list is endless but I haven't the time or inclination to list them. But if This is accepted and trumpeted as a successful gov well so be it.I won't go into the massive national debt which according to the IMF is rising faster than all but 2 EU countries and look at the mess over there. Yet here is no plan whatsoever as to how labor propose to pay off this debt.

Reinhard:

22 Aug 2013 12:39:41pm

Oh nice try Forrest, for someone who often claims to be non-partisan you have a strange way of showing it.Abbott said those exact words "Jeez, does this guy ever shut up?" Trying in vain to defend Abbott's lack of self-control is just another case of damage control by yourself and the party faithful.

Tom:

22 Aug 2013 1:29:35pm

Whatever the plan and however reported it was a gem. After all the audience and millions TV views applauded to the remarks. From now on, every time we see K Rudd waffling on TV, many of us will just smile remembering such appropriate remark: "Does this guy ever shut up?" Just you wait when you see millions of T-shirts with the Kevin Rudd's photo and the famous remark underneath: "Does this guy ever shut up?" Priceless!

I think that this remark will prove to be a watershed for this election campaign. It has assigned Rudd to ridicule. No one can take him seriously any more.

Reinhard:

22 Aug 2013 5:53:22pm

Forrest you and Abbott should learn that slander and deflection are no substitutes for a rational and evidence based argument. As you well know I have never made such a statement and your continued false accusations that I did may one day force you actually to find such a defence. As for Rudd being "provocative and abusive" you must be as easily provoked as a certain Tony "knee jerk" Abbott

Paulh:

22 Aug 2013 3:00:27pm

Well said, anyone watching ,wether liberal or labor would have been screaming at the TV, for gods sake Rudd shut up and answer the question. Rudds baseless attacks smack of desperation ,he attacks over ppl funding but has wasted lives and $11 BILLION on the boatpeople debacle, his NBN has just blown out by $5 Billion, his budget deficit after less than 3 months blew out to $30 billion, his finance minister has presided over $106 Billion in deficit low outs ,talk about Pot calling the Kettle Black.

Harry:

22 Aug 2013 9:35:34am

Note to Abbott, Rudd will not shut up because he is sticking to one of his hero?s rules, ?If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it ??. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie?..?

Robert:

Kitty:

22 Aug 2013 9:42:34am

Even in this "Murdoch event", the moderator could not save Abbott from appearing as negative and destructive. He was all about stopping...boats, carbon pricing, mining tax, knocking down every brick...he was all slogans with new ones as Bob the Builder. He erred and ahhed, smacked his mouth, nodded his head for emphasis, spoke slowly and repeated the catch phrases so 2 year olds understood.He was careful not to repeat the Latham handshake but when questioned and scrutinised on policies and costings he became aggressive.I think that like Murdoch in the tapes and his ridicule of "the cops", the same plan is in place for "the mugs". No policies, other than a absurd PPL scheme, and don't let anyone know what we will do just pat them on the head and hand out a few baubles.Rudd spoke with knowledge of the porfolios, plans for health, education, NBN and jobs for the future and offered a more level playing field to voters.I do not hold either man in high regard, my vote will be on policies and despite MSM I will find them or the lack thereof.

Joe Blow:

Bob G:

22 Aug 2013 9:47:58am

I watched last nights public forum between Rudd and Abbott. The question of Abbott asked the moderator, "jeez does this guy never shut up?", was just a question and not as reported delivered in frustration. For most Australians Rudd's endless political monologues are outlandishly ego tripping and boring. Abbott was not out of order and Rudd has failed to convince no-one but himself and Labor with his tacky replies.

Daisy May:

22 Aug 2013 2:17:52pm

BobG.... I watched last nights public forum too.... and Abbott lost the plot when subjected to persistent questioning... as he has many times in the past'Abbott cannot handle even the mildest form of pressure. He gets very angry and usually runs away... he did not have that option last night.

Joe Blow:

22 Aug 2013 4:09:22pm

Oh DM - have you forgotten the video of Rudd swearing because he ddn't like his speech, or have you forgotten how he brought an Air Force flight steward to tears because she brought him the wrong sandwich, or how Rudd immediately attacks any jouro who asks him a hard question.

Oh and wasn't it current Labor Minister Gary Gray who only a few weeks ago said "Kevin Rudd is too gutless to be PM".

Jungle Boy:

22 Aug 2013 3:15:30pm

Well that's at least four different versions of who Mr Abbott was speaking to. Others on this forum have claimed he was:-- making an aside to the audience, or- directly addressing Mr Rudd, or- making a rhetorical remark to no-one in particular.

Whoever Mr Abbott was addressing, it was HYPOCRITICAL. How did he complain about Mr Rudd not shutting up? By opening his own mouth.

Ross:

One of them was absolutely lovely, engaged in genuine conversation with me, acknowledge that I had a job to do and was very appreciative. The other did the exact opposite! Oh boy, I have ever had anyone treat me so badly whilst trying to do my job. Political opinions aside...from one human being to another...Mr Abbott, you win hands down."

Notfooled:

22 Aug 2013 3:36:36pm

The Obama Dream Team has an implant in Rudd now, they noticed the preacher/Obama style was working his temperature up, he constantly had to drink to cool down and the implant prompt telling him " Attack or Back Off " "Don't flick the hair" "Careful with the lip licking" " go lie No 23 " " get right up in his face " or " keep going, shove your fist down his throat so he can't speak". Shameless is King Kev.

AlexA:

22 Aug 2013 10:10:30am

I love how the LNP supporters beleive that the $70 billion blackhole doesn't exist, however beleive Abbott won't cut more than 12000 public service jobs.

Howard said he would only cut 11000 and it ended up being 32000. Newman said the public service had "nothing to fear" but than cut 14000 jobs, but no, no Abbott will stick to his word and won't cut more than he has quoted.

Waterloo Sunset. 2014:

Paulh:

22 Aug 2013 3:06:22pm

The government own fact finder stated quite clearly that the $70 billion black hole does not exist. But we are to ignore Ms Wongs $106 Billion in deficit blow outs, Rudds $30 Billion deficit low out in less than 3 months, the $11 billion wastedon the boatpeople debacle, the billions wasted on BER, the $5 billion NBN blow out, the FBT farce, the super account and bank account cash grab, Rudds deceit and spin regarding the ppl is offensive deceitful and hypocritical, but why let facts get in the way of commonsense. Rudd has stacked the fed health and education public service with thousands yet its the STATES that run schools and hospitals.

trublue:

22 Aug 2013 10:11:01am

hi Melissa with due respect to your comment that KR was passive aggressive in response to TAs outburst of .....shut up is not correct in my view because TA could not handle the truth. Also this shows country to belief that KR was aggressive etc but this is not so has he seems to have learnt how to handle stressful and rude comments and is a better PM as his leadership skills have improved and he is more truthful and respectful and genuine.

I only hope that KR and labor can get a better deal in been able to get there GREAT REFOM POLICIES OUT TO ALL OF US. To me the problem has been that TA has been let of the hook by you and many journalist and the you have not given enough time research homework in understanding our past years of good work dome by many politicians but you have focussed on the mistakes that Labor have done at the expence of providing OUR GOVTS REFORM POLICIES AND HOW WE SURVIVED THE GLOBAL RECESSION

Bob G:

22 Aug 2013 10:12:29am

The king of political spin Rudd used last nights debate to push his own political barrow. He did not answer the questions put to himself and Abbott. Instead the great "I am" waffled on about his own needs for Australia and for most part failed to answer the forum's questions.

mark:

22 Aug 2013 10:13:10am

I can see why Abbott asked when Rudd would shut up... the man is not used to:- scrutiny- situations where he can't run away from questions he can't answer- having to recite anything more than 3 word slogansAbbott PM would do us proud during tense international negotiations.... NOT!The LNP will struggle to keep him locked away for a full term should we have the misfortune of having him elected.

Lana:

22 Aug 2013 10:18:08am

Mr Abbott's line: "I want to be Mr Build, Build, Build, so we can have jobs, jobs, jobs".In essence he is saying: "I want to be Mr Build so we can have jobs"Is this the language of a Prime Minister? Kevin Rudd was the stronger opponent in my view.

Julia:

Reinhard:

22 Aug 2013 6:40:26pm

So Rudd "abused" her by not saying anything? ?One of them was absolutely lovely, engaged in genuine conversation with me, acknowledge [sic] that I had a job to do and was very appreciative. The other did the exact opposite! Oh boy, I have ever [sic] had anyone treat me so badly whilst trying to do my job."

Trump:

David Somerfield:

22 Aug 2013 10:22:20am

The thing I cannot understand is that Abbott refuses to give any actual figures on costing and just calmly stands there and slags off Labor with not the slightest hint if irony and the public laps it up.Interesting watch ing Sky news immediately after, David Spears gave the thing to Rudd and agreed that Abbott had erred in asking if Rudd ever shut-up but within minutes visibly changed that to, "well yes he might have had a point" Which makes me think the producer was in his earpiece telling him to back off criticising Abbott.Then today (Thursday) the Murdoch media leads with front page (Courier Mail) garbage and Sky has overnight tucked in behind Abbott....was that after "words" from the boss.This is pathetic and shameful. The Brits wouldn't fall for it and neither did the Americans but it makes me wonder about the intelligence of the Australian public.

Paulh:

22 Aug 2013 3:09:36pm

If you think sky is behind Mr Abbott then you are watching a different one to the one I watc.Rudd and labor released their own costings less than 48 hours before the last TWO elections, as yet Rudd has had a small mini budget prior to the election announcement but has NOT release ANY detailed costings himself.

Not the cane toad:

virgil:

22 Aug 2013 10:26:19am

Frankly, I thought TA was on the ropes when he made his shut up comment because he can't cost his gold-plated PPL scheme & he knew KR was exposing this. Frankly, I think Aussies like someone who talks slowly in slogans & often repeats himself rather than getting actual information that they have to try & process. Frankly, I though KR said frankly too much. Frankly neither man inspired me and frankly both worry me as leaders.

Dav:

22 Aug 2013 10:31:31am

Great to see a mix of ages in the audience and not given "worm" machines. I think it detracts from debate when the worm is used. Both candidates stepped up to the mark...the people should have more of these "club" forums. I give a win narrowly to Abbott on this occasion.

Politically Incorrect:

Ozchucky:

22 Aug 2013 10:33:09am

Thank you Melissa,By now, everyone will have noticed that Tony Abbott avoids probing questions and audiences of mixed or uncertain persuasion. When in front of the cameras, Tony Abbott preaches to the converted as often as possible, so that he looks like a success. But then he walks away when the tough questions begin.

Tony Abbott MUST be stage managed, otherwise he just comes apart.Not a good omen for a pretender to the throne.

fiasco:

OUB :

22 Aug 2013 4:35:59pm

I'm sure you're right but that is only to be expected surely? People wouldn't turn up unless they were interested, just as they wouldn't blog here unless they were interested. If you have an interest you come to form views. It is difficult to get people to change their minds after that.

RupertsHackers:

22 Aug 2013 4:56:44pm

If you were watching the debate you would have heard a journo on Rupert's Sky TV saying Abbott's "shut up" remark was rehearsed. But you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know where Abbott gets his lines.

inyourdreams:

22 Aug 2013 10:39:43am

Oh, am so sick and tired of Rudd prancing around and his constant negativity.

I say this to Rudd- His negative slogan to the opposition repeating "cut, cut, cut" is just reinforcing the financial disaster of his and the Labor party "spend, spend, spend" over the last six years. They wouldn't need to cut if Labor hadn't over-spent!Bring the election on and good riddance to Rudd and the few remaining ministers who didn't leave in protest of his on/off leadership.

Like rats from a sinking boat (actually quite liked the ministers who left-they knew their portfolios) this campaign is fast becoming "Rudd, Rudd, Rudd" AGAIN.

OUB :

Joker:

22 Aug 2013 10:40:38am

A Brisbane makeup artist who claims she worked on Prime Minister Kevin Rudd before the second campaign debate says she's never had a client treat her so badly.This not the first time I have heard of this, behaviour myself. When RUDD came to WA as opposition leader he treated the Police who were providing him with security the same. Wake up to what this man is really like. Remember the little kid that annoyed him, the Hi Five that made the kid say ouch.

RupertsHackers:

22 Aug 2013 10:46:59am

At last a costing from Abbott! "Self funded retirees to pay rich women $75,000 to have their kids". When Rudd asked the obvious question about whether this is fair Abbott told him to "shut up"! Abbott's remark was despicable!

Dee:

OverIt:

22 Aug 2013 2:37:45pm

The only "shut up" I heard, and the only one that has been reported, is when Krudd was going on and on yet again, and Abbott asked "Does this guy ever shut up?". At no time did he actually tell Krudd to shut up. Yet here you are, now claiming that Abbott told Krudd to shut up in response to a question!

Fortunately in this case the truth is easy to identify, but it does show the lengths some supporters are prepared to go to in an attempt to convince others that their guy is best.

Reinhard:

22 Aug 2013 3:54:16pm

KEVIN RUDD, PRIME MINISTER: You don't get to $5.5 billion that way, you just don't.TONY ABBOTT, OPPOSITION LEADER: Well, I'm sorry, the Parliamentary Budget Office disagrees with you.KEVIN RUDD: Just one final point on this.DAVID SPEERS: Very quickly.TONY ABBOTT: Does this guy ever shut up?KEVIN RUDD: No, we're having a discussion, mate, we're having a discussion.

Treetop:

22 Aug 2013 3:05:21pm

If Mr Rudd was rude ? , what were the actual words he used ?At the moment I have not heard any words to convince me he was rude .Some people would rather have someone speak to them with over bubbling insincere charm than someone to be just plain normal and not to be dishing out unneeded pretentious comments , just to raise one's self esteem .

Esteban:

Asceptic:

22 Aug 2013 6:03:18pm

Google definition of 'eugenics'eu?gen?ics /yo&#862;o&#712;jeniks/NounThe science of "improving" a human population by controlled breeding to increase the occurrence of desirable heritable characteristics....

Apparently it is now a 'science', here's me thinking it was another term for racism.

There is nothing wrong with anyone rich or poor wanting to start a family. But, the cost of raising a child is the same and as high for all families, regardless of prenatal income status of the mother. Providing a massive leg up to sections of the electorate based on their income status can only be seen as an attempt to alter reproduction patterns.

Fair enough though if people want to vote for it, just remember the money to fund this is mainly taxed from the less fortunate, the average wage earner.

ru4real:

22 Aug 2013 11:07:56am

Tony Abbott used exactly the same script as for the first 'debate'. His frustration at being kept on the short LNP script-leash is starting to tell.

His 'fibs' line is a clear example of pot-calling-kettle-black: he's constantly fibbing about LNP policies and costings. His commitment to anything has to be questioned, when he's spent three years opposing Labor's policies, and then puts them into the LNP rucksack at the start of the election campaign.

His rudeness and lack of respect for the role of PM was evident with 'his 'shut up' language. It was reminiscent of the gross disrespect he showed towards Julia Gillard when she held the office.

And the fact that the LNP is bereft of ideas is clearly demonstrated in Tony Abbott's latest 'steal'- he used Kevin Rudd's metaphors of nation-building and reverted to his transparent three-word slogan 'build, build, build'.

He also copied Kevin Rudd's ideas in other parts of the debate.

Tony Abbott and the LNP have come to the end of the negativity line, and their campaign is in tatters.

Tony Abbott can't come up with anything new. He's a spent force. He won't inform the electorate with detailed, costed policies. And we can't trust hm.

OUB :

22 Aug 2013 4:28:37pm

It will be interesting to see if you can maintain the respect for the office line if there is a change of government. I remember well how much respect bloggers showed for Howard when he was PM, and after. I suspect your talk is nothing more than cant ru4real but I will of course withhold judgment for now.

WHAT NOW:

22 Aug 2013 12:47:24pm

@Victor, you are admiring the wrong part Of K Rudd's anatomy. Try looking at his ability to govern and when doing so remember what he did 2007-2010 - a trail of disasters. We MUST NOT forget the deaths, wastes and disasters.

Grahame:

22 Aug 2013 11:18:51am

Interesting the comment by the make up person who prepared Rudd and Abbott for the debate. She said Rudd was arrogant and rude to her while Abbott was kind, smiling and a complete gentleman who chatted with her. Reminds me of Mr Rudds abuse of the airline stewardess. That's the difference between them ...one's a gentleman the other is certainly not. think I'll vote for the gentleman..

caragabal:

22 Aug 2013 11:18:58am

If the Coalitions Parental Leave Scheme is going to cost the Superannuation industry so much and Chris Bowen / Penny Wong/ Kevin Rudd / Julia Gillard /Wayne Swan are all over their costings can someone tell us all why it has taken Labor months and months to discover this big fiscal black hole? Why weren't they banging on about this for the last few months, it is because they haven't got any ideas because they are still trying to work out how they collect tax, i.e. most people and companies have to actually earn something in the first place. For those in Northern Queensland last financial year the average profit for graziers was $41,000 (actual) this year $2000 (actual). Not difficult to see why Labor are not collecting tax. But that is what you get when you want bully the Indonesians and cancel the live export trade expecting that the Indos will pick up where we left off. Like hell they will.Good old Joe Ludwig got it all wrong again, but that is what you get from a Daddy's Boy.

Francie:

22 Aug 2013 11:24:14am

Kevin Rudd had Abbott on the ropes from the very beginning and at times Abbott looked out of his depth. Abbott tried to fight back at one stage with his "does this man never shutup" quip but at the same token he kept talking whenever he felt like it.

Tony tried to fill in answers by thanking the people with questions almost every time and to my mind never fully gave an answer to any question. He was not the facts and figures man he thinks he is.

Kevin Rudd impressed me with his indepth knowledge of what his Government had done but Tony Abbott just kept referring back to the Howard Government as though it was a beacon of light for the young people in the audience.

Tony Abbott just had his old hackneyed rehearsed phrases and information and apart from him actually smiling occasionally and sniping at Kevin Rudd about "shutting up" he looked unimpressive.

Frank:

22 Aug 2013 7:39:17pm

Rudd had Abbott on the ropes, must have watched a different debate? Rudd is a Dudd and that was on full display as usual. Motor mouth at best, and if points scoring was fot the number of words you're probably right, but not much of it made sense to me. Rudds race is run, and sensible voters see right through him of course. His policy on the run, his endless Abbott attacks and nothing at all of substance. I'll be glad to see the end of this ex-public servant blundering fool who's dictatorship must really be getting up the nose of the gullible ones who sided with him. Come election day, good ridance to bad rubbish, and if you think he won you really must be as delusional as the man himself. After all it wasn't Karoke it was supposed to be answering questions from the public.

Notfooled:

22 Aug 2013 11:35:37am

It appears the Obama Dream Team have gotten Kevvie to take up "preacher style". His invasion of Abbott's personal space was scripted but poorly delivered. He did not give a straight answer to ANY question, he took off straight after having a couple of selfies, whilst Abbott mingled with the crowd well after it finished, answering questions directly, as he had all night. Rudd looked and sounded dissembling, although his chameleon nature ( one favoured by psychopaths) adopted the preacher style, albeit a bit clumsily, he just waffled and waffled, over spent his time again and again, butted in to the others time ( cheating again Kevvie ?) and spoke more than 20% than his opponent, no wonder Abbott called him out and about time !C'mon Kev and Penny and Chris, where will all your cuts, cuts, cuts be after the election ???

Verity:

22 Aug 2013 11:38:39am

Tony Abbott kept referring back to the Howard days of Government and a huge amount of young people in that audience wouldn't even remember the Howard days. He was pitching to the older members of the audience who had not made up their mind. I did not see any nodding heads during this.Applause for Abbott was mainly moderate.

Kevin Rudd was going for the jugular from the start and he knew his subject back to front and front to back, quoting figures, quoting conversations previously had and quoting the International Asylum Seekers doctrine. He was relaxed and spoke without hesitation and won me when he told of his passion to building a better Australia and how he would do it, his passion for health and education and I believed him. Applause for Kevin Rudd was loud and long.

Tony Abbott said he wanted to "build build build" for "jobs jobs jobs" but did not say how he was going to do this. He was vague on cuts and tax rises and again promised he would release the details closer to the election. Well Mr. Abbott I want to know NOW what they will be otherwise you don't give voters the right to digest them.

Abbott did not impress me with his answers to the Paid Parental Leave Scheme, taxation, what will be cut and even tried to tell us how good a Health Minister he was (again in the Howard Government) and I didn't believe any of that. He did say that Superannuants would most likely lose their franking on shares but what he also did NOT say was that every person paying Superannuation RIGHT NOW would end up with less money when they retired.

I think Kevin Rudd was all over Tony Abbott like a rash and was far more impressive. I know which leader I would prefer and its not one who makes "shut up" comments.

Pun:

22 Aug 2013 11:40:47am

Asking whether a "guy" "ever" "shuts up" is asking whether an elected person representating a constituency "ever shuts up". These words could only be called "dialogue" if one is aspiring to lead a gang of thugs, not become leader of a representative and deliberative democracy.

It is NOT a "great moment" in Australian politics, as Brandis claims (and what system of law, if any, is being safeguarded in hands that hold this view?)

If Abbott is asking "Jeez, does this guy ever shut up" publicly of an elected representative, who else will be asked when they are going to "shut up" ?

Will it be people having their right to be heard and to be represented "shut up"and shut down before they can utter a word?

Who is going to decide who else, besides Rudd at the particular moment of a debate, falls into the category of "this guy"?

Tom:

22 Aug 2013 3:06:17pm

@Pun, I guess, you are entitled to your opinion. However, I can assure you that millions were cheering, when Abbott finally provided quite appropriate comment to David Speers about that aggressive, finger in the face pointing, talking over, waffler. Just like the audience did.

'Pun', lighten up. Believe me the last thing anyone would want is the treacherous, waffler as our PM. Just remember what happened 2007-2010.

Give us a break:

OUB :

22 Aug 2013 4:02:52pm

I didn't see it. Of the grabs on the news it did appear Rudd was trying to talk over Abbott as he tried a couple of times to answer Rudd's questions and then talked over the moderator. We have different politics I know but that looked poor on Rudd's part. If the moderator wasn't going to intervene a rebuke was appropriate I think. You may have a reasonable point about the appropriateness of the rebuke but you should also comment on Rudd's behaviour in refusing Abbott the opportunity to respond.

I also thought Rudd's chopping action within what appeared to be Abbott's personal space was inappropriate. It went beyond debate into provocation I thought.

Joe Blow:

22 Aug 2013 4:19:45pm

Oh dear - more feigned outrage from the Party that brought you Shorten swearing at shopkeepers about a pie, Rudd abusing flight stewards over a wrong meal, Combet swearing regularly in interviews, Gillard defending Thomson and Slipper ... oh dear where are the hypocrisy police when you need them.

Pun:

Tom, OUB, Joe Blow: Amusing to see that "Pun" has become "from the Party".

Isn't it the definition of populism that The Good and The Right is what appears amusing to the "millions" for sufficient time to fool them?

The laugh is on all of us if we trash respect for representative, deliberative democracy ( you must have thought my reference to that basic instituional value of our political system was too unimportant to be worthy of comment).

Laughter and derision was a well rehearsed play by Abbott and pals during Gillard's incumbency, but is still not policy and substance.

What about the millions not laughing because their interests have been "shut up", not given a right to be heard, or a right of reply? Are these rights just disposable fashions of a discrete historical moment or basic constitutional rights?

OUB :

22 Aug 2013 6:39:02pm

What, you haven't noticed other policitians using derision? You don't have to watch much of QT to see plenty of examples of that. Concentrate on Anthony Albanese for example. It seems to be all he is capable of contributing.

Pun:

23 Aug 2013 9:37:14am

OUB: "Points"you raised include you '" didn't see it"?

The rest were deflection from the "shut up" comment from Abbott that raises issues of rights of others to be heard.

Any comment on those rights? Is it OK with you if a prospective member of executive govenment readily tells people to "shut up"? Should the whole of Parliament "shut up", or the judiciary, or the other parts of the constitutional body, including citizens?

spud:

22 Aug 2013 11:41:32am

The bit I saw (thank goodness I had something better to do; I needed to take the rubbish out) had Rudd trying to get right into Abbott's space and provoke him into something intemperate. It says a lot about both of them; that Rudd would resort to such bullying-style tactics, and that Abbott held his cool under such in-your-face provocation, only responding with the very well deserved observation to the effect that Rudd is so full of it that its constant flood out of his oral orifice never stops.

antipostmodernism:

22 Aug 2013 1:38:35pm

and Rudd must be under even more pressure for being rude to the makeup artist before the debate. The narrative has just completely shifted. A good night has turned into a nightmare of his own making. The real Rudd, who abuses women that serve him.

Kaye Wright:

Jane:

22 Aug 2013 11:50:15am

Re. Prental Leave scheme

My questions are these;

What happens to the growing numbers of people working under casual contracts for Labour Hire companies. Or those people who are forced into contracts (self employed), who again arent entitled to the benefits of a full time worker?

For those of you who arent aware, this style of recruitment is rapidly becoming popular amongst employers. Very simply because it keeps employers costs and responsibities to a minimum.

Many of these people are doing jobs that are no different from us that have the security of permanent employment, and many of them work in unskilled jobs where their wages are already low. It doesnt seem fair.

While I beleive that a paid parent scheme is neccessary. It certainly would have helped us pay our $800 wk mortage while off on maternity with our 2 kids, I am not convinced that this model provides an equitable solution.

OverIt:

22 Aug 2013 2:46:11pm

Jane, my entire nuclear family is unable to get work other than casual or, if we're really lucky, a contract for a specified period of time. No paid sick leave, holidays, Christmas means no pay for at least two weeks, and zero job security.

As you say, this style of recruitment is becoming more and more common amongst employers, in no small part because the unions have now made it so difficult to get rid of a dud employee. Already, more than 40% of the workforce is casual, and competition for even those casual jobs, including highly skilled positions, is fierce.

I don't see it improving any time soon, no matter who is in government. And in regard to your initial question, those on casual contracts will, I suspect, be entitled to zero paid parental leave.

Harquebus:

22 Aug 2013 11:50:36am

I think the debate was just more of the same old same old and not one word on what is required to lead us to true sustainability, population reduction and proper resource management. Overall, fail for the politicians and fail for MSM.

Joe Blow:

JMJ:

22 Aug 2013 12:19:06pm

Melissa, in respect to Tony Abbott's overly generous paid parental leave scheme the diatribe & dissatisfaction coming from within the LNP, the Nationals, big business, self funded retirees & basically most of the voting public would suggest Abbott has reached the end of the road & point of no return. From this perspective one would expect the polls to now favor Labor over the LNP.

Peter Abbott:

22 Aug 2013 12:21:32pm

Melissa I have long enjoyed your commentary however in this instance I think the above is lacking some depth. Its almost like there is some unwritten policy in ABC that you cant be critical of the ALP.Anyway my comment is that a certain demeanour or behaviour is expected of the PM and OL of our country in a debate of this sorts and last night looked like a used car salesman selling to a mature adult.I find Mr Rudd's behaviour grating and unfortunate. I saw no redeeming features nor reason to give him another chance at running this country. His team have had 6 years and have no record on which to run an election campaign.

Martha K:

22 Aug 2013 12:24:42pm

Why some people think that Abbott was aggressive? The way I remember it was Mr Rudd who came to Mr Abbot and was pointing his finger right into Mr Abbott's face and was continuously talking over Mr Abbott. It was obviously a direction from his minders. However I thought it was rude and childish. Far too aggressive for a normal debate. Then again, I am sure that Mr Rudd never wanted a 'normal debate'.

Actually I liked the moment when Tony Abbott asked David Speers: "Does this guy ever shut up?", because that was exactly what most of us were thinking at the time. No wonder the audience laughed loudly in approval.

rob:

22 Aug 2013 12:26:05pm

Given the tone of the questions I suggest that the vast majority of the so called undecided audience were mainly undecided between Labor and the Greens hence the result. Rudds scare campaign against Abbott is trying to take the electorate for fools. Only the rusted on Labor supporters will believe this crap. Abbott and most thinking Australians no that if Abbott breaks any election promises and fails to improve the economy he will be voted out at the next election I am sure that he is not aiming to be aone term PM. Surely all Australians who want the best future for this country would be prepared to vote for the LNP who have demonstrated their ability to manage in the past rather than Labor who have demonstrated their inability to manage the economy over the last six years.

JB:

22 Aug 2013 2:43:26pm

I don't understand why people care so much about whether the PM talks to the crowed or is charming or smiles nicely.Do you want to be the PM's best friend or do you want someone to run the country?I want someone intelligent running things and I just don't see that when I look at Abbott.

Malcolms Leather Jacket:

ideologueLie:

22 Aug 2013 12:32:50pm

In Janet Albrechtsen article entitled "Voters are waking up to the real Rudd' some of her claims might be somewhat enhanced if the make-up ladies (more than one) encounters with Rudd the pyscho are true!

Of interest as to see how the Media run with this. Or just as importantly who do not run with this.

David Marr was "amazed" how much publicity his article about the Abbott punch or alleged punch invoked so much media (fair to say most of the media was negative). Will this get coverage in the "unbiased" ABC or buried behind a Abbott gaff?

Trump:

cb:

22 Aug 2013 12:53:50pm

Personally I think these so called debates are a total waste of time and monye and couldn't be bothered watching. Glad Abbott made the comment about Rudd not shutting up. Rudd is rude, scheming, backstabbing, manipulative and a few other words. As for Penny Wong saying Abbott is aggressive, how about she looks back on Kevin Rudd's history and all his outbursts - most of which I would say were aggressive. I know who I will choose and it won't be the comeback kid!

Tom:

22 Aug 2013 12:54:08pm

Why are people talking about Abbot being aggressive? What I saw was Rudd getting into Abbott's face pointing fingers at him. It was rather childish and aggressive. That is not the way a PM should debate. Rudd was also continuously talking over Abbott and you just could not stop him from blubbering his mouth. That is why most people believe that Abbott's question to David Speers: "Does this guy ever shuts up?" was a gem. It was so timely and appropriate as acknowledged by the audience applause.

Esteban:

Vinke:

22 Aug 2013 1:06:02pm

Kevin Rudd not only wiped the floor with Abbott but showed up Abbott for his lack of brain power. Abbott is lost in the woods without his scripts and minders and was squirming in his budgie smugglers all night. How can Tony lead a Country when he cant talk freely without repeating everything twice and unable to carry a debate not least tell us what he is going to do. HE IS ONE SCARY MAN with an unstable character.

Tom:

22 Aug 2013 1:10:31pm

I cannot believe that we could have so many financially illiterate journalists, some of whom actually comment on economic matters. The story about investors and self managed retirees having to pay for the Paid Parental leave is - ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!!!.

Franking credits are allocated in accordance with the company tax rate. Therefore, ANY company tax rate cuts will affect the amount of franking credits. Therefore, it is coalition decision to cut company tax rate from 30c/$ to 28.5c/$ which will reduce the franking credits to all investors including self-funded retirees. That is irrespective whether you have or have not any levy.

In conclusion, two important points to remember:

1. Reduction in the company tax rate will proportionally reduce the amount of franking credits.

Mortan:

Drunken Sailor:

22 Aug 2013 1:12:12pm

Why so much attention on the Coalitions funding plans - shouldn't the focus be on hopeless state of the ALP's. We have the full history of what they say then do in black and white (well deep red really). The ALP has missed its budget forcasts by about $20B each year it has been in government, and the financial position has deteriorated by something like another $10B in the few short weeks Rudd has been PM again. To hell with what ifs re coalition funding, its the factual repeated failures of the ALPs that should have the spotlight on them.

metoo:

Babsie:

22 Aug 2013 1:21:56pm

I wonder what size shoe Tony Abbott wears because his mouth must be getting awfully sore , is it any wonder the young people have not enrolled to vote i don't want to vote for them either, and fancy Murdoch's Sky News giving Rudd the debate sorry i did not watch some of it

Manny:

HolyCow:

22 Aug 2013 1:49:06pm

Abbot is a curious fellow on two fronts - he was unwilling to speak in any meaningful way to the Prime Minister's questions but was happy to mix with the audience after. The best he could come up with was a no-class insult to Kevin Rudd. Abbott has no moral or ethical bearing at all. Thus, It is hardly surprising that even his old school Riverview has now disowned him. Do we seriously want his guy living in the lodge? Imagine what he might do for Australia's image!

Jimmy :

22 Aug 2013 1:52:12pm

This is brilliant tactics by Rudd . He has now commenced the campain with enough time as to sway the electorate without peaking too early . TA's lack of charachter will add to Rudd's momentum , and Labour will win with a seat or two majority . TA's cofin nail will be the terrible timing release of his policy costings , a day or two out from the election, with it fresh in the minds of all voters that they are not funded.

Jenny White:

22 Aug 2013 1:52:42pm

Tony Abbott you are a fraud. Can you possibly answer a question without patronising the questionner? Can you possibly string a sentence together without ramming slogans down our throats? Can you possibly provide an honest answer about the cuts everyone knows you will make to fund your promises? As for your "shut up" retort, that was utterly shameful for somone who wants to be the prime minister of this country.

Baby:

Labor seems to have accepted defeat. The other day in Q&A Hockey said that there is no Telstra to sell any more.

And Bowen fails to ask if good economic management means selling the furniture in the house. Indeed, Telstra sale was a big con!

Howard sold Telstra as a monopoly, to get more of money.

Monopoly do what they all do; Telstra refused to front up to build NBN. All the costs that Mr Turnbull talks about is really the result of Labor government having to untangle the monopoly that Telstra was.

Seano:

Reinhard:

22 Aug 2013 2:07:31pm

Last night's leaders debate sure was an eye opener, and I do hope that Australians have finally seen through Abbott's all new nice guy image, for the false prophet that he truly is. A crucial point of the debate was the question regarding the standard of candidates in this election.Rudd admitted standards that were low and pointed out just how Labor is working to address the problem, Abbott totally deflected the point of the question and proceeded to spruik the attributes of his local candidate. Then Abbott totally lost his cool under sustained pressure from Rudd over how he would fund his "Yuppie Mum Bonus" "Jeez, does this guy ever shut up?"" will be the gift that keeps on giving to Labor in the final two weeks of this campaign..

Clotho:

People have forgotten that Abbott was Howard's attack dog during Question Time.

Yesterday we saw what happens when an attack dog is let off the leash and has his muzzle removed.

Weird thing is,the majority of people who didn't think it was wrong for Abbott to use bully tactics are the same people who bleat about School and Cyber bullies and want the Government to do something about them.

The worrying thing about this whole affair....if Abbott can't control outbursts like these how on earth can we trust him to represent us overseas.

Come Back 2014:

22 Aug 2013 2:31:49pm

Make-up Shut up:New Legislation 2014.All parliamentarians, males and females should be forced to shave their hair, using no make-up.We could see how they really looks like for the very first time.Alternatively; All male parliamentarians should have make up with false painted eye brows, red lips and blonde stearine wigs, and all females forced to use ties hanging from their front heads over their faces.Unisex clothing for all should apply: Medium Grey.

Singularity:

seajae:

22 Aug 2013 2:38:09pm

rudd kept talking after he was asked to stop by the moderator, abbott said it very jokingly. There was no malice in it what so ever, rudd simmply kept talking after being asked to stop, abbott did the right thing. Rudd has no policy what so ever, all his promises are to be funded on credit, he has not explained any of them or where they are coming from. you lot are just whingers that know rudd is getting his arse kicked and will lose the election. Talk abpout bad sportsmanship, labor voters have it in spades, they simply cannot stand anyone asking them the truth, lies & innuendo are all they know

maggie atlas:

R. Ambrose Raven:

22 Aug 2013 2:55:09pm

Let's liven it a little more.

We need far more public (not social, public) housing:1. government deserves a greater, not a lesser, role in public housing,2. we need to recognise the economic costs, social costs, and unsustainability of the existing housing situation,3. for public housing the issue is just as much about a full range of support services as it is about the housing itself,4. the unaffordability of the median WA house for the median WA household will not improve in any relatively painless manner,5. any move to transfer public housing to the community housing sector is often occurring for bad reasons, and 6. the most powerful should not be able to exploit their power so as to dump the consequent costs of housing-related problems onto the most vulnerable.

Sadly, even a modest proportion of the resources squandered on increasing dwelling prices would, if diverted to the Budget, have ensured that we had an excellent and comprehensive range of social services (the politically exaggerated costs of ageing included). Obviously such a social good will be ferociously opposed by Big Property, because their profits will be threatened - as they should be!

Two important philosophical issues are, firstly, that the mainstream economic philosophy beloved of Big Property and its drug-dealer ethics is a self-serving and exploitative ideology masquerading as a social science, and secondly, that the perceived role of government has been infected and perverted by the self-serving and exploitative ambitions of a wealthy stratum to minimise assistance to those most in need so that more can be looted by those least in need. Did the IPA, for instance, forecast theGreat Recession? No. Did Steve Keen? Yes.

Amazed of Prejudice Forming:

Kevin Rudd: "I'm passionate about how we build Australia's future. I'm in the building business."

No he is not, his previous actions show the statement is utter bull to whit:

This comes from an article on the ABC web page 10/07/2013.

"The decree that property developers are not to be eligible to stand for pre-selection is so typical of the Rudd style immediately after 2007. How can you rationally exclude one legally constituted profession from the political processes? What next? Used car salesmen, then journalists, perhaps?"

Anyone in Australia can act as the principal of a property development, hence potentially banned from participation. It is not simply a profession it is a huge cross section of the community.

Cherna:

22 Aug 2013 2:56:57pm

Turns out Melissa that someone did a review on how much time each Leader spoke. Guess what Rudd spoke roughly a third more of the time than Abbott -or, approximately 20 minutes more than Abbott in a one hour time frame.

Not surprising that Abbott said: "Jeez, does this guy ever shut up?"

No shock to us who switch off as soon as Ruddy starts to waffle!

You forgot to mention that at the end of the debate Abbott mingled with the crowd and engaged them by answering additional questions...

What did Rudd do? He took a couple of selfies and said "I gotta zip!" and made it off stage into the hands of Plibersek and Co (yes the same Plibersek who vowed she would never serve under Rudd's leadership).

Otherwise what a fun night was had!

Any truth in the rumour that there will be time allocation along the lines that Tony Jones uses on Q&A during his 2 person debates?

Alpo:

22 Aug 2013 8:11:39pm

Cherna, trying to shut up a political rival in a public debate just shows Abbott's concept of Democracy. Rudd was right: They were there to debate!... If Abbott didn't have anything else to say, it's his problem not Rudd's.

Cherna:

23 Aug 2013 9:45:35am

But Alpo Rudd dominated the time and didn't let Abbot speak. It turns out that on analysis Rudd had 34% more time than Abbott. And if you look back to the instant you'll see Abbot trying to get a word in as Ruddy kept waffling...

The reason Abbott was applauded for the comment was, like most of us, the audience could see that Rudd was 'All Talk and No Action"...

Notfooled:

23 Aug 2013 10:03:20am

Sorry Alpo but the whole point was that both of them were supposed to hear and answer questions from undecided voters, although from what I saw there were quite a few decided ALP voters asking questions.

Karooseun:

JDC:

Labor are painting the "Jeez, does this guy ever shut up?" as a gaffe revealing an Agro Tony!

Yet they fail to mention Agro Rudd who it seems gave make up artist Lily Fontana such a bad time that she said, referring to Rudd, she's never had a client treat her so badly! Now that's Agro!

Like most gaffe's its really best not to expand on the issue unless you know exactly where it will end up... like remember the RAAF stewardess that Rudd abused to the point of tears... or remember when Rudd...

Karooseun:

Tom Martyr:

22 Aug 2013 3:35:08pm

What do we do as curious analytical individuals when neither 'leader' (term used so very loosely) cannot provide clear and definitive answers to any of the major questions which we their constituents seek clarity, focus and a clearly defined path?

This is what we continue to receive in these debates and in the day to day media circus reporting on the posturing of two candidates with seemingly lots of words but very little to say.

If you cannot be swayed by smarm, charm (depending on your perception), fear mongering, fast talking, uncosted pipe dream promises you're left with very little else to go on.

The majority would idealy love something of substance to sway them deffinitively one way or the other to at least declare a clear winner to hoist up as their nations representative if only in their own mind and so we wait, watching these pathetic race to the bottom contests and daily sound bites.

As it currently stands, one thing has to be for certain. We are only left with track record to go on when all we're given is vague posturing and shiver inducing toothy grins yet again. Where you personally place the emphasis on past exploits is up to the individual. For my view, Rudd has a past like the aftermath of a type 4 hurricane. Abbott leaves a raft of gaffes, guffaws and stumbles worthy of at least a part time professional gibbering idiotNil all draw there too..

In a last ditch at clear determination it has to fall on the parties history. Historically one gets us in to debt, one gets us out by flailing the shin bone for as long as we can stand it. The Libs should win this one but it's only on an epic count back and heaven forbid one or both take a stance against all of the above by the numbers boring campaigning stratergy

eddie:

22 Aug 2013 3:48:20pm

Didn't watch the debate no point to it as I've lived through the 6 years of Rudd/Gillard/Rudd madness. The Abbott tidal wave is now only two weeks away. Cant wait to see the shock and awe on the faces of socialism and the 32000 'asylum seekers' soon get get theirs. Cant wait.

Seano:

22 Aug 2013 4:10:01pm

On learning when is the right time to open your mouth and when to shut your trap, someone once said, "Wise men say nothing in dangerous times."I think that was essentially what Mr Abbott was meaning to tell the ... umm, y'know ... prime minister.

Joseph B:

22 Aug 2013 4:25:35pm

These are staged events with the actors on both sides prepped on what to say for almost any question that comes up. I think Abbotts comment "does he ever shut up" was preplanned based on feedback from focus groups, but his timing for the remark could have been better. I also thought Rudd was a bit obnoxious walking into Abbott's personal space as if to say I am more of a man than you.Abbott won by a smaller margin than the first debate as he appeared more calm. Rudd appears stressed and is looking desperate with his negative attacks, knowing his political career will come to an end in 3 weeks and his ego will have no one to stroke it.I doubt this debate will change many minds.

Eric:

22 Aug 2013 4:34:18pm

In breaking news:

"Glasson, who is running an intensive local grassroots campaign, leads Rudd on a two-party preferred basis by 52% to 48%. The poll's margin of error is 4%, but its findings raise the possibility that without a big effort on his home turf, Rudd could become the third prime minister in Australian history to lose his seat, behind John Howard in 2007 and Stanley Bruce in 1929".

Alpo:

Joost Daalder :

22 Aug 2013 5:51:25pm

Abbott was quite right to raise the question whether Rudd would ever shut up. The topic for discussion had clearly come to an end, and the next one was just about to start. Yet Rudd insisted on adding "one more thing". He was the one to be rude, not Abbott, whose amazement is entirely natural and understandable. It is, in fact, routine for Labor politicians to interrupt Liberal opponents, or the compere, and in any case to make sure that they, instead, are talking at all times.

Alpo:

22 Aug 2013 7:33:46pm

At least since the last debate, I have noted with great interest a rather bizarre increase of accusations, especially against Rudd, of "psychopathology". Now, this is obviously yet another brain fart of the loony team of propagandists in the Liberal Party, that are totally losing the plot. But, I decided to balance the trend and provide a profile for Tony Abbott. I have in front of me the DSM-V (Google that to understand) and will list the various disorders that fit with what we know about the leader of the Opposition:a) Grandiose Delusional Disorder... Pretty clear since the publication of Battlelines.b) Catatonia... Characterised in his case by "no or very little verbal response", as exemplified in a famous encounter with a journalist.c) Obsessive Compulsive Disorder... Now we understand the endless repetition of his 3-word slogans.d) Dissociative Identity Disorder... This is of recent development, the onset being some time between the 15th of December 2012 and the 15th of January 2013.e) Oppositional Defiant Disorder ... "a pattern of...vindictiveness lasting at least six months". His is a truly extreme case, his vindictiveness has been going on for many years now (the more recent crisis started with Pauline Hanson and hasn't stopped since then). The loss at the 2010 election marked a serious deterioration of the condition, though. We may call it: Abbott's Psychological Hockey Stick.f) Exhibitionistic Disorder... Very clear at the time of the budgie smugglers, but I guess that he has been receiving some treatment lately.

.... There are many others that fit the profile, but I don't think that the Moderator will allow me to mention them... just grab a copy of the DSM-V from a good library, and have fun!

Tony :

22 Aug 2013 8:50:26pm

I am considering my vote and following the reaction by Tony in the debate last night, I cannot imagine him being able to run a decent and workable government. I'd say he would already have his own potential future public servants offside(he questions Treasury's ability and plans to sack many in Canberra) but external to that I'm concerned he will embarrass this country with such a non diplomatic reaction. We are aware that Tony does wish to first meet the President of the Country of Indonesia to negotiate his turn back the boats policy, will he resort to such abuse if he is unable to get his way??

Soon:

23 Aug 2013 9:14:12am

I had the impression this time Rudd's way of providing background first and explaining the iins and outs of issues actually went over the top of this audience. This is very unfortunate but a people educated away from complexity towards simplicity cannot be expercted to be able to follow and concentrate sufficiently to become informed voters. They'll get the leader they deserve. They haven't derserv ed a leader of the caliber and vision of a Kevin Rudd.