rastafari is original orthodox theory [. . .] i visit greek orthodox church and was despised......in palm sunday...no introduction....no well wishing....no invitation for dinner,although i eat hearbs with a saltless diet.

RLY? Can we go private now?

Why did you point out that line? I totally overlooked that.

Still reeling over love being black. Didn't know it was a color.

It is a Rastafarianism. Whether it is racist is or not is something people with degrees in multikulti studies discuss.

It is used by some as a metaphor as you can see what was meant in the OP. Some take it more literally in terms of race.

The Rastas have come up with some weird ways of expressing stuff in an ideolect based on folk-etymology and the like.

I can hear that "love is black" and understand what it means from some Rastas.

I take issue with any uber-nationalistic creed that seems to imply some sort of superiority, and you can look through my post history where I call out Americans who think they are the living in THE Holy Land, people who talk about white pride.

Did you miss the line about Jesus or St. Mary being black, whatever that means? Or did you just read what you wanted to agree with in his post?

« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 04:13:29 PM by IsmiLiora »

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She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.--"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18--I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --Life went on no matter who was wrong or right

Folks are arguing with me about their misinterpretations about my discussing some Serbian controversies, and yet, black folks can't have their own sense of pride, nationalism, and cultural integrity? Talk about a double-standard!

In Rastafari black is beautiful, period. If folks are offended with that statement, they need to look in the mirror and reflect and why that threatens them in anyway, nobody said here "ONLY black is beautiful" but rather stated the obvious fact that indeed, "black is beautiful" which is self-explanatory to those who know this

Overstand brother, I don't need educated. See my post above. But you are paint with a broad brush something that ain't as uniform as you make it.

Been around this stuff for 22 years? To greater and lesser degrees and in various places.

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.

heartica big up my brotha, I tried to explain to Is here that it was rude for them to disregard the crucial substance of your post out of grammatical concerns, as that is not Orthodox, much of Orthodox have actually been illiterate!

You keep harping on this. The simple fact remains, dear brother, is that ras zacka's posts were near incomprehensible. You made it comprehensible by communicating clearly. Again, the onus is on the communicator to make himself clear. Who's in the wrong, the person speaking French to an English-only speaker when the former can clearly speak English or in the latter because he can't understand? I have no doubt that ras zacka can speak and write in plain English, but he chooses to affect a patois in order to make himself appear more "authentic". It's a load of crap. We're not talking about basic grammar mistakes, we're talking about someone deliberately obfuscating their words via grammar choices.

Ras Zacka's posts make Stashko's look like the most erudite English. If you're going to explain something on an English language site and you can write in English, do it. Otherwise your credibility and the credibility of whatever you're trying to say goes out the window because you can't be bothered to show some respect for the people you're talking AT.

Yes, talking AT. Not TO and definitely not WITH. Both of you need to grow the eff up if you want to defend Rastafarianism on here because you all look like children throwing a temper tantrum.

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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.

heartica big up my brotha, I tried to explain to Is here that it was rude for them to disregard the crucial substance of your post out of grammatical concerns, as that is not Orthodox, much of Orthodox have actually been illiterate!

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,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.

EXACTLY! God bless the soul and memory of our beloved Abune Yesehaq, who loved the Rastafari people out of sincerity, and was indeed a noble and caring father to we the Rastafari lost tribe of Ethiopia. HIM intended to literally graft Rastafari folks into the Ethiopian Empire as a new tribal group, a new ethnic identity within the State having a territory of their own in Shashamene. The Chuch was commissioned to indoctrinate Rastafari into the Faith and Culture, just as the Church has been sent to the South, East, and West of Ethiopia for the same purpose of converting non-Christian Ethiopia and bringing them into the fold of our Mother the Church.

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.we need a big dialogue. leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..

Amen Amen. Where were all those careless Ethiopians when our fathers were in neglect? Rastafari have been crucial founding members of many Ethiopian parishes across the Western world, and we have always been piously involved with our clergy and Ethiopian expatriate families, because we in Rastafari were deeply experienced with the viciousness of oppression and victimization before the Derg showed up, and we helped Ethiopians and they helped us mutually as we both entered into this brave new world together, as brothers and sisters under One GOd.

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if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..

Amen Amen! Many of the Rastafari community have become not only members of the EOTC, but indeed clergy as Deacons and Priests, just as Janhoy envisioned in specifically sending a Bishopric to the Caribbean in the first place. There had been priests and a consecrated altar in Trinidad since as early as 1956, however a Bishop who could ordain other clergy and deacons was not sent until personal orders of HIM in 1970, and that Bishop was His Holiness Abune Yesehaq, the self-titled "Rasta Bishop" who loved our community so much, and we love his memory and legacy beyond words!

Lets pray that these careless Ethiopian haters who wrongfully abuse we Rastafari, when our Church and the majority of the Ethiopian community have so actively embraced us, that God transplant Love into their hearts as you suggested. Let us pray that it be as Apostle Paul explained in Romans 11, that in being jealous these Ethiopians are provoked to action. When they see Rastafari eating at the Bishop's table, Communing regularly, teaching their children in their schools, leading within the Ethiopian community, perhaps they will be sparked to jealousy to themselves pick up the slack, pick up the pace, and stop hatin and get active.

stay blessed,habte selassie

The Church of Scientology is more coherent sociological group even if you include folks who only read Dianetics than the so-called "Rastafarian Community".

Sorry Habte, some of us have actually lived in the real world around and "among" Rastas. And you can always say that everyone else's experiences are outliers except yours and Gebre's, but really that dog don't hunt.

You are in a situation in which you literally beg the question. You get to trumpet what you define "Rastafarianism" and everything outside it is some misunderstanding or perversion, etc.

Put the trumpet down. You yell your message so loud no one can hear it except the hand clappers already stepping to your song.

I think it is literally naive of you to suppose that I or GMK are not actual Rastafari brothers who fellowship with actual Rastafari people. Do you think we are reading this stuff in books? I have also already conceded that many, in fact, a majority, do worship the Emperor, but it is important not to conclude that ALL Rastafari believe this, or that all the Rastafari within Orthodox believe this. GMK and I are not preaching to our choir, we are trying to clearly enlighten y'all on certain aspects of Rastafari community which clearly y'all are not familiar with or have not experienced evidenced by the near blanket condemnations expressed here on the forum.

I am not trumpeting what "I" define as Rastafari, I am telling you word for word what the Elders have taught me, by direct discussion and the laying of hands. I didn't make this stuff up, this is not my unique or individual or personal interpretation, this is what I was taught, this is what I believe, this is what others teach, this is what others believe, and folks like GMK and I fellowship with these,and we have simply been trying to explain ourselves. I am offended that after a year of posting on this forum, and after a week worth of discussion and 3 pages of responses, that my so-called friends here insist on straw-man misconceptions about what exactly me and GMK have very clearly been saying. Why don't folks actually try LISTENING to us, rather then simply dismissing us because our testimony doesn't exactly agree with other ignorant or misplaced preconceived notions. We are insiders, why treat us as if we were outsiders? We are Orthodox why brow beat us as if we were not? We are also Rastafari, why try and tell us who we are and are not, simply because y'all outsiders to Rastafari think you know what its about?

stay blessed,habte selassie

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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Did you miss the line about Jesus or St. Mary being black, whatever that means? Or did you just read what you wanted to agree with in his post?

This ain't even on my radar. I get what they are saying. It comes off as odd those who don't under . . . er overstand Rasta.

Even if I have the knowledge where they are coming from, if not the personal experience, I can still take issue with it and others who are hypocritical in denouncing in others what they let slip by themselves, long, drawn out explanations notwithstanding.

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She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.--"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18--I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --Life went on no matter who was wrong or right

UNTIL BIGOTRY AND PREJUDICES AND PARTIALITY,WILL BE COVERED BY TOLERANCE AND GOOD WILL,THERE WILL BE NO PEASE...Haile Selassie 1.TO ALL DIRTY MOUTH ORTHODOX USING GUILE INDIRECTLY ON THIS FORUM...GWAAN,GO ON AND TAKE A FRESH.....USE GASOLINE TO WASH OUT YR MOUTHS AND HEARTS AND REPLACE IT WITH LOVE,TOLERANCE,PEACE,IMPARTIALITY,POLITAICAL DENOUNCEMENT, AND THE THE LOVE AND SPIRIT OF YESUS KRESTOS.EVEN OUR LORD WAS ACCUSED BY MORTAL SINFUL MAN AND INSULTED AS SOME OF YOU R VERY INSULTIVE ON THIS FORUM AND FALL SHORT OF THE KINGDOM OG HEAVEN WITH YOUR HATRED TODAY...AND I PERSONALLY DONT WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IN THE HOLY SPIRIT OF UNITY AND LOVE AND TO HELP EACH OTHER.I HATE WESTERN CIVILIZATION PRANKS,BAD WORDS AND NORM.THEY REMIND ME OF PEOPLE WHO HARM MY GOD AND SAVIOUR.I KNOW 90 PERCENT ON HERE NEVER HAVE TRUE LOVE BUT R SAME RACIST PPL WHO MAKE PPL LIVES MISERABLE DAILY.SO I WARN YOU ALL ..AND YOU KNOW YRSELVES NOT TO IMPUTE GUILE HERE,BECAUSE CHRIST IS WATCHING.HE IS THE UNSEEN GUEST AT EVERY TABLE...SHOW ME YR COMPANY AND I CAN TELL YOU WHO YOU ARE DIRTY MOUTH GUY.CHILDREN MUST NOT SEE YR ARROGANCE...IT REMINDS ME OF THE SLAVE WHIP WHICH BRUTALIZED MY VERY SOUL IN THE LOINS OF OUR FOREFATHERS.MORE LOVE UNCONDITIONAL TO ALL ON THIS FORUM...GOOD AND BAD..LIVE UP..THIS IS RASTAFARI TALKING TO YOU!!

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Behold Philistia and Tyre,with Ethiopia ,this MAN was born there. And of Zion it shall be said ,this MAN and that MAN was born in HER!!psalm 87

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I think it is literally naive of you to suppose that I or GMK are not actual Rastafari brothers who fellowship with actual Rastafari people. Do you think we are reading this stuff in books? I have also already conceded that many, in fact, a majority, do worship the Emperor, but it is important not to conclude that ALL Rastafari believe this, or that all the Rastafari within Orthodox believe this. GMK and I are not preaching to our choir, we are trying to clearly enlighten y'all on certain aspects of Rastafari community which clearly y'all are not familiar with or have not experienced evidenced by the near blanket condemnations expressed here on the forum.

I am not trumpeting what "I" define as Rastafari, I am telling you word for word what the Elders have taught me, by direct discussion and the laying of hands. I didn't make this stuff up, this is not my unique or individual or personal interpretation, this is what I was taught, this is what I believe, this is what others teach, this is what others believe, and folks like GMK and I fellowship with these,and we have simply been trying to explain ourselves. I am offended that after a year of posting on this forum, and after a week worth of discussion and 3 pages of responses, that my so-called friends here insist on straw-man misconceptions about what exactly me and GMK have very clearly been saying. Why don't folks actually try LISTENING to us, rather then simply dismissing us because our testimony doesn't exactly agree with other ignorant or misplaced preconceived notions. We are insiders, why treat us as if we were outsiders? We are Orthodox why brow beat us as if we were not? We are also Rastafari, why try and tell us who we are and are not, simply because y'all outsiders to Rastafari think you know what its about?

stay blessed,habte selassie

Where did I say you weren't?

I was saying you ain't preaching just to some liberal group who is willing to roll over and agree with your rhetoric regarding "Rastas". I am someone who has lived around and among it.

Whatever group you and Gebre want to join and act out with is up to you. It would be ridiculous for me to deny either one of you don't. You obviously are up in it and Gebre has youtube vids all about his experience.

You both obviously are in touch with Rastafarianism. I never said otherwise.

Please point out where I did.

I don't care where you got your definition from, "elders" or otherwise. The definition you are using is what IS Rastafarianism for you. And everyone else is wrong. I've seen many variations of "Rastafarianism". If you would like, I can start typing in my best attempt to mimic the ideolect often used.

If you say you are part of Rastafarianism, you are. It is really that simple. It don't require much after all. It is about as coherent as the Vampyre culture.

By a t-shirt, dread your hair (I know "real" Rastas know this ain't necessary) get a CD, and some pot and you are in. Of course this ain't "real" Rastafarianism, but what is?

The point here is that your understanding of Rastafarianism ain't the whole story, not even close.

I dunno your ethnic background, latino? But Gebre is pretty darn white and I've seen Rastas that would beat him down running that game around them.

And he has said as much.

Thankfully, where I am at now, that fad had passed for the most part. Rastafarianism that is.

But back in the day, if I had to blindly choose to be in a room of Rastas, FoI, or 5%ers. The Rastas would have been the last I would have chosen.

UNTIL BIGOTRY AND PREJUDICES AND PARTIALITY,WILL BE COVERED BY TOLERANCE AND GOOD WILL,THERE WILL BE NO PEASE...Haile Selassie 1.TO ALL DIRTY MOUTH ORTHODOX USING GUILE INDIRECTLY ON THIS FORUM...GWAAN,GO ON AND TAKE A FRESH.....USE GASOLINE TO WASH OUT YR MOUTHS AND HEARTS AND REPLACE IT WITH LOVE,TOLERANCE,PEACE,IMPARTIALITY,POLITAICAL DENOUNCEMENT, AND THE THE LOVE AND SPIRIT OF YESUS KRESTOS.EVEN OUR LORD WAS ACCUSED BY MORTAL SINFUL MAN AND INSULTED AS SOME OF YOU R VERY INSULTIVE ON THIS FORUM AND FALL SHORT OF THE KINGDOM OG HEAVEN WITH YOUR HATRED TODAY...AND I PERSONALLY DONT WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IN THE HOLY SPIRIT OF UNITY AND LOVE AND TO HELP EACH OTHER.I HATEWESTERN CIVILIZATION PRANKS,BAD WORDS AND NORM.THEY REMIND ME OF PEOPLE WHO HARM MY GOD AND SAVIOUR.I KNOW 90 PERCENT ON HERE NEVER HAVE TRUE LOVE BUT R SAME RACIST PPL WHO MAKE PPL LIVES MISERABLE DAILY.SO I WARN YOU ALL ..AND YOU KNOW YRSELVES NOT TO IMPUTE GUILE HERE,BECAUSE CHRIST IS WATCHING.HE IS THE UNSEEN GUEST AT EVERY TABLE...SHOW ME YR COMPANY AND I CAN TELL YOU WHO YOU ARE DIRTY MOUTH GUY.CHILDREN MUST NOT SEE YR ARROGANCE...IT REMINDS ME OF THE SLAVE WHIP WHICH BRUTALIZED MY VERY SOUL IN THE LOINS OF OUR FOREFATHERS.MORE LOVE UNCONDITIONAL TO ALL ON THIS FORUM...GOOD AND BAD..LIVE UP..THIS IS RASTAFARI TALKING TO YOU!!

Western Civilization and me, er I? You, er, I have no idea how hurt I am. Western Civ and I? There is con, er protest! I will take on your protempt, brother. I and I should proverse together over this.

Ras Zacka's last post reminds me of the pubescent girls who would scream, "GIRL POWER!" back in the day of the Spice Girls when you'd ask them why they liked that group so much and such.

Mindless claptrap.

Again, I've little to no problem with GMK or HS's posts on the subject. I may not agree with it, but they take great pains to attempt to be understood on the most basic level.

RZ just yells at people with righteous indignation and pats himself on the back that he's not like those of us here who need to wash out our mouths with gasoline because we're too stupid to understand the way he enjoys obfuscating his ideas behind a wall of affected patois.

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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Ras Zacka's last post reminds me of the pubescent girls who would scream, "GIRL POWER!" back in the day of the Spice Girls when you'd ask them why they liked that group so much and such.

Mindless claptrap.

Why be so dismissive and rude to the brother for being honest and expressing himself here? He took the time to share his testimony with you, the least you could do is not be such a d**k about it. Also, its only mindless claptrap because you are not an insider, but I have already elaborated above with clear and precise English for y'all to see the substance of his response, and it is very much the opposite of mindless, in fact it is grounded in a lot of reality and history. If you are ignorant, be ignorant, but don't be a jerk about it, its not his fault you don't know what he is talking about, which is precisely why he took the time to respond and explain, and if you still don't understand his explanation, at the least, you can be polite about it. That is the Christian hospitality he is rightfully accusing folks here of denying him, that is the Christian love he is rightfully saying he is not receiving here, supposedly on an Orthodox Christian forum.I must admit, this personal slander and attack on Ras Zacka on my thread is beginning to upset me, it is bordering on racism as well, and folks should kindly refrain from continuing down that line outside of the PM.

stay blessed,habte selassie

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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Okay, you need to point me out on who you think is being racist towards Ras Zacka here, because I'm having a hard time identifying that.

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She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.--"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18--I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --Life went on no matter who was wrong or right

It's really saddening to see the level of immaturity throughout this thread. I have been reading this forum for years, and I have such great respect for all of the posters here. I would have never expected this to happen here, let alone between Orthodox brethren! I hope we can all take a deep breath and say a prayer before posting again on this thread. It is clear there have been faults on both sides. Let us all be aware of our own faults before leveling accusations at others! I know this may sound hypocritical to say, but I will be the first to acknowledge that I need to keep this in mind.

UNTIL BIGOTRY AND PREJUDICES AND PARTIALITY,WILL BE COVERED BY TOLERANCE AND GOOD WILL,THERE WILL BE NO PEASE

Compare to later in the midless drivel.....

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I HATE WESTERN CIVILIZATION PRANKS,BAD WORDS AND NORM.THEY REMIND ME OF PEOPLE WHO HARM MY GOD AND SAVIOUR

Tolerance indeed.

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it is bordering on racism as well

How so? because we question what he says? Why is it every time someone disagrees with someone of a darker complexion racism is thrown into the mix as fast as lightning? I dont care if he is white, black, polka-dot, purple, or clear. Nobody else does either. The quick cop out of racism wont work.

Quote

That is the Christian hospitality he is rightfully accusing folks here of denying him, that is the Christian love he is rightfully saying he is not receiving here, supposedly on an Orthodox Christian forum

Since when are we not allowed to question someone that we disagree with on a Christian forum? I will.

From what I have read in this thread, Rasta is simply an obfuscation that appears to be Christ centered but, in my opinion is an ethno-centric cult. That does not make me any less Christian than anyone who disagrees with me.

Enough with the race card. Just because someone is being called out does not mean it is racially motivate. Hell, I dont know what color (like I care) neither you nor Ras Zacka are. This is the internet, not a face to face conversation.

PP

« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 05:29:23 PM by primuspilus »

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"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

I must admit, this personal slander and attack on Ras Zacka on my thread is beginning to upset me, it is bordering on racism as well, and folks should kindly refrain from continuing down that line outside of the PM.

stay blessed,habte selassie

OK. Now you back up those "allegations".

Where is the "racism"? Or what borders on it? Be specific. I want quotes. And names.

That you even believe in race as a legitimate construct anymore is quite odd.

Ras Zacka's last post reminds me of the pubescent girls who would scream, "GIRL POWER!" back in the day of the Spice Girls when you'd ask them why they liked that group so much and such.

Mindless claptrap.

Why be so dismissive and rude to the brother for being honest and expressing himself here? He took the time to share his testimony with you, the least you could do is not be such a d**k about it. Also, its only mindless claptrap because you are not an insider, but I have already elaborated above with clear and precise English for y'all to see the substance of his response, and it is very much the opposite of mindless, in fact it is grounded in a lot of reality and history. If you are ignorant, be ignorant, but don't be a jerk about it, its not his fault you don't know what he is talking about, which is precisely why he took the time to respond and explain, and if you still don't understand his explanation, at the least, you can be polite about it. That is the Christian hospitality he is rightfully accusing folks here of denying him, that is the Christian love he is rightfully saying he is not receiving here, supposedly on an Orthodox Christian forum.I must admit, this personal slander and attack on Ras Zacka on my thread is beginning to upset me, it is bordering on racism as well, and folks should kindly refrain from continuing down that line outside of the PM.

stay blessed,habte selassie

You know what's rude? Coming in and continuing to obfuscate what you want to say when someone points out that they can't understand you. In fact, you come in and you mock someone and basically say that they're full of the devil because they can't understand what you're saying when you're not taking the time to follow some basic language rules.

Again, RZ knows how to speak English. Period. He can type it, too. This isn't about spelling. This isn't even about grammar. It's about being understood by the audience you're addressing. Imagine if St. Paul spoke to the Greeks up on Mars Hill with some mixture of Aramaic, Hebrew and Koine. The Athenian Church would have been an abortion.

That, my friend, is rudeness to the nth degree. And it's also rude for you to continue to defend him when he's obviously put more people off here than myself for the very same reasons I'm espousing. Instead of asking him to perhaps slow down and not YELL AT PEOPLE LIKE RUDE AMERICANS WHO THINK THAT IF THEY TALK LOUDER TO THOSE WHO DONT HAVE A FULL GRASP OF ENGLISH THEY SHOULD THEN UNDERSTAND you keep patting him on the back and then acting as if it's racism or some other form of discrimination.

No, it's about respect. Ras Zacka has none for those of us who don't understand the obvious affectation he's putting on when he posts here. When I want to know what the OO think, I'll ask Hiwot or Fr. Peter. At least they can discuss things with me instead of proverbially yelling at me. You once had a sympathetic ear about all this because I'm all about letting people who are actually a part of a group tell me about the group and take their words at face value. I see, however, that you and Ras Zacka don't have the respect for me or others to slow down and answer some very basic questions without throwing our ignorance in our faces.

Way to go. Hope you two are happy with yourselves.

Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

It's really saddening to see the level of immaturity throughout this thread. I have been reading this forum for years, and I have such great respect for all of the posters here. I would have never expected this to happen here, let alone between Orthodox brethren! I hope we can all take a deep breath and say a prayer before posting again on this thread. It is clear there have been faults on both sides. Let us all be aware of our own faults before leveling accusations at others! I know this may sound hypocritical to say, but I will be the first to acknowledge that I need to keep this in mind.

Maybe we'll get to that later, because outside the pleasantries here, not everyone hold this view.

Ras Zacka's last post reminds me of the pubescent girls who would scream, "GIRL POWER!" back in the day of the Spice Girls when you'd ask them why they liked that group so much and such.

Mindless claptrap.

Why be so dismissive and rude to the brother for being honest and expressing himself here? He took the time to share his testimony with you, the least you could do is not be such a d**k about it. Also, its only mindless claptrap because you are not an insider, but I have already elaborated above with clear and precise English for y'all to see the substance of his response, and it is very much the opposite of mindless, in fact it is grounded in a lot of reality and history. If you are ignorant, be ignorant, but don't be a jerk about it, its not his fault you don't know what he is talking about, which is precisely why he took the time to respond and explain, and if you still don't understand his explanation, at the least, you can be polite about it. That is the Christian hospitality he is rightfully accusing folks here of denying him, that is the Christian love he is rightfully saying he is not receiving here, supposedly on an Orthodox Christian forum.I must admit, this personal slander and attack on Ras Zacka on my thread is beginning to upset me, it is bordering on racism as well, and folks should kindly refrain from continuing down that line outside of the PM.

stay blessed,habte selassie

Habte,

Most of us here are not Rastafarians and have not been read in to their terminology and myth, but we know its real history, which is not like what Rastafarians say about themselves and their movement.

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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

there is a lot of political distraction that was attempted in here from the main blasphemy that was being addressed. the fact that even happend in order to prevent the abandoning of former idols and blasphemies speaks for itself.and I will not say anymore about it. beacause our conversation is that of a matter of DOGMA of the Orthodox Faith.

In Christ,Hiwot.

Actually my kind sister, this thread was not started to proclaim the divinity of the Emperor, but to simply celebrate HIM legacy and history without the kinds of arguments that YOU started and YOU continue to have and which we of a Rastafari community have only been so polite as to continue trying to discuss these matters with you, so that you can learn about our culture and philosophies straight from the horse's mouth so to speak, and not from some silly Wikipedia. We do not use Wikipedia to define your personal Ethiopian culture, identity, history, and experience, please don't try to use it to trump us when we are testifying to you. GMK and I did not make up our interpretations of Rastafari, we are members of a community, that involves many people, and we learn mutually. We are not making it up, we are participating.

Rastafari is as diverse as Christianity, are all Christians Catholics? Are all Christians Orthodox? Do all Christians fully understand the Trinity, or the Real Presence, or the Virgin Mary, even within Orthodox? Aren't there Ethiopians, even in the Church, today who mistakenly support Immaculate Conception? Should we condemn to hell and deny their Orthodoxy because of a misunderstanding, or shouldn't we pray in the spirit of reconciliation, offering a fellowship, for its as Our Lord said, "He who is not against you, if for you." So please be less scathing over your insistent misunderstanding of this issue. Don't act like you don't know me and GMK, don't act like you don't read our posts and join our discussions, don't act like until this thread you agreed with our Orthodoxy, don't act like we are not Orthodox simply because you say so, that is for our priests do decide, and they disagree with you completely.

Further, it is because our priests actually LISTEN to what we say, and again, as you said, we have the right to venerate non-canonized Saints in private, and no one here was saying, "It is Orthodox to publicly venerate HIM, it is required of ALL Ethiopian Orthodox to venerate Emperor" however you are dead-wrong when you tell us as individuals that we don't have this right to practice our devotion in private. Private does not mean secret, it simply means that the Church does not celebrate the Saint in Liturgy, we members can still venerate them, this is because of the Church Triumphant and Communion of ALL SAINTS, those canonized are canonized for public, liturgical worship, but they are not necessarily elevated above or better than any other saint of God's kingdom, you and I included, which is precisely why we say in Christian to our brothers and sisters, "Pray for me." Is that a sin? Are we insinuating that all Christians are God when we ask them to pray for us? If some of us here see HIM as a Saint, we have that right of the Holy Spirit, and if we insist that HIM is NOT GOD, how are you to tell us what we are saying HIM is, when that is simply not the case?

This was not a thread to worship the Emperor, this was a thread to praise the legacy, and you would have been better to offer nostalgic stories and testimonies as an Ethiopian women your experience with HIM, instead of simply needlessly arguing against your brethren and sistren who you seem to misunderstand. This was a slightly political thread, because it was about the Emperor, who is a political figure. You misunderstood Ras Zacka's implications with the conspiracies and assassinations, the brother was testifying that Ethiopian clergy and people face an existential threat from the current Ethiopian regime, and we Rastafari people are a part of that risk, not because of our love for the Emperor, but simply because we are now part of the Ethiopian community. If you don't believe the stories, I can tell you from experience they are true, I fellowship with that parish in Dallas and there are many other dangerous and crazy stories, so that we here in exile in the US and abroad pray day and night for the safety of our leaders, our clergy, and our membership. We Rastafari are part of the Community, HIM invited us, and if you don't like it that is your opinion, but I have never met Ethiopians as vociferously negative towards Rastafari people in their Church as you have been on this thread, I can only pray that you are hiding behind the internet, and if we met in your parish face to face you wouldn't dare be so rude to a visiting member of our mutual Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

stay blessed,habte selassie

selam all

I for all who have been observing this fiasco will like to say know that there is indeed a clear cut difference between what the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church confesses and the Rastafarian distortion and miss representation , politicalisation, racial connotation etc of The Faith that they are here now doing. I will for the last time try to address the main point in here.

"Actually my kind sister, this thread was not started to proclaim the divinity of the Emperor, but to simply celebrate HIM legacy and history without the kinds of arguments that YOU started and YOU continue to have and which we of a Rastafari community have only been so polite as to continue trying to discuss these matters with you, so that you can learn about our culture and philosophies straight from the horse's mouth so to speak, and not from some silly Wikipedia. We do not use Wikipedia to define your personal Ethiopian culture, identity, history, and experience, please don't try to use it to trump us when we are testifying to you. GMK and I did not make up our interpretations of Rastafari, we are members of a community, that involves many people, and we learn mutually. We are not making it up, we are participating."

Yet here you are cheering in the time honored blasphemous tradition of the Rastafarian followers in recognition of the person of the Emperor Selasse the first to being JAH! Is that not the very ADORATION of the emperor as GODJEHOVA that goes on among The Rastafarian CULT? You tried to re interpret the meaning and the name and yet here the truth lies. You are directly referring to the Emperor Hailesilassie the First as JEHOVA! Not once but Trice!Three Cheers for the Emperor! Selassie I Jah! Selassie I Jah! Selassie I Jah! Rastafari!stay blessed,habte selassie

Then the shock continues when Gebre affirms of his practice of this blasphemous chant as well yet continued to insist that it is not so , and he gave us his own definition thus: Not necessarily brother. It is true that many Rastas worship Haile Selassie as God, but not all do so. I still chant "JAH! Rastafari!:" But I am not a Haile Selassie worshiper. When I exclaim "JAH! Rastafari!," I am hailing and acknowledging that JAH/God is ruler of Creation. So I just want you to please be careful about accusing those who use this phrase of idolatry. SelamBecause as you already know, "JAH" means God. And "Rastafari" means ruler or head of creation.Selam

So the above statement as shocking as it was to hear it from someone who say confesses the Orthodox Faith, It was not surprising as many indeed have still not abandoned their old baggage of Idolatry towards the emperor , at the basic level among all the Rastafarians of whatever sect, Those who have not abandoned their idolatry ways have ONE declaration of faith the share, in their prayers in their creed, in their greetings and that is JAH RASTAFARI I , those are not Orthodox!, however those who have completely abandoned that blasphemy ,the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church will openly , joyfully ,welcome and embrace .

This turned it into a shocked and outraged reaction from me and other Orthodox Christians. Yet soon we found that there was a great backward bending to insert this blasphemous term into the orthodox practice via bizarre interpretations and farfetched meanings, while the real significance of the term is blatantly obvious to all. When a Rastafarian worships the emperor he does so declaring his faith thus JAH RASTAFARI!

Then when the created meaning of the term was not bought, the political arsenal was used to kill the Valid Dogmatic Challenge. This further was amplified by the racial and nationalistic term that made Orthodox Christianity of Ethiopia as belonging to Blacks only, as understood by blacks only, and this was capped with the Black LOVE! BS, what is the White love , the Gray Love etc that was left? All these wild and bizaar claims of what is an essentially neurotic mind which looks for demons everywhere, concluded that all that oppose this neurotic claim are demons.

Now as to Wikipedia I have said use also other sources you will find the same information when it comes to the particular usage and meaning of the term JAH RASTAFARI I, as an idolatry practice. The prayer I quoted is a well known daily practiced prayer among them. I will provide another link though

Here is one that demonstrates the meaning of JAH RASTAFARI , or Silassie I JAH pretty clear. It also talks about life in shasmene Ethiopia

but this second site can give us the same prayer I have quoted from Wikipedia :

Rastafari Prayer

Princess shall come out of Egypt; Ethiopia shall stretch forth her hand unto God. Oh thou God of Ethiopia, thou God of divine Majesty, they spirit come within our hearts to dwell in the parts of righteousness. That the hungry be fed, the sick nourished, the aged protected, and the infant cared for. Teach us love and loyalty as it is in Zion.

Deliver us from the hands of our enemy that we may prove faithful for the last day, when our enemy has passed, and decayed in the depth of the sea or in the belly of the beast.

O' Give us a place in they Kingdom forever and ever.So we haile our God Selassie I, Jehovah God Rastafari, Almighty God, Rastafari great and terrible God Rastafari.

Who sit in Zion and reigned in the hearts of men, and women; hear and bless us and sanctify, and cause they loving face to shine up on us thy children threat we may be saved.

Does the above Hail sound familiar? In shortened version It was said Jah Silassie I! trice, and in GMK’s case JAH RASTAFARI form, Imagine my shock at this outrage from someone I thought brothers in the Faith? So have I or any other Orthodox faithful have a valid reason to condemn the usage of such blasphemy?!

Was this the type of veneration that some today by weed indorsed agreement call Orthodox? The Fathers of the Church together will condemn it , no Christian faithful will acknowledge it, were it to be said before a holy council of the Church it will be declared as nothing but a blasphemy and will be given its due treatment. We know From whose council this blasphemous term emerged it was the blasphemous CULT of the Rastafarian movement that coined the term of its Adoration and Worship of the Emperor by its idolatrous council of the Rastafarian elders. Who still today continue to pray as demonstrated above.

"Rastafari is as diverse as Christianity, are all Christians Catholics? Are all Christians Orthodox? Do all Christians fully understand the Trinity, or the Real Presence, or the Virgin Mary, even within Orthodox? Aren't there Ethiopians, even in the Church, today who mistakenly support Immaculate Conception? Should we condemn to hell and deny their Orthodoxy because of a misunderstanding, or shouldn't we pray in the spirit of reconciliation, offering a fellowship, for its as Our Lord said, "He who is not against you, if for you." So please be less scathing over your insistent misunderstanding of this issue. Don't act like you don't know me and GMK, don't act like you don't read our posts and join our discussions, don't act like until this thread you agreed with our Orthodoxy, don't act like we are not Orthodox simply because you say so, that is for our priests do decide, and they disagree with you completely."

As I have mentioned above I believed you to be orthodox who have abandoned the Idolatry , racist , and Earthly kingdom of Christ theology , of the Rastafarians IN ALL ITS MANIFESTATIONS! Yet here I am hearing you chant JAH RASTAFARI I , SILASSIE I JAH!, the very core creed of the blasphemy as professed by the rastas who do Worship the Emperor. So I politely explained the ramification of what you guys are saying and asked it be stopped , this brought out an all out protest and blatant lie and redefining terminology to mean something that it does not say and affirm. While you Hailed the Emperor in your first statement, you later said it is said to God to proclaim he is present in the emperor, and you also redefined the JAH RASTAFARI to mean fearsome GOD, yet above you said it to the Emperor, I grow weary of this back and forth denial of the real and practiced usage of the term, to mean something only because you who say who do not worship the emperor said it to be so. You forget that in Orthodoxy we are serious about the terms we use to worship, and / or venerate. Our Holy Martyrs are the evidence of how serous we are about terminologies and their meaning. I have said it before and I will repeat again, abandon that blasphemous term, tell all rastas to refute and spit on it if need be, as we spit on the face of Satan in renouncing his teterous message at baptism and before every prayer, the calling of emperor Hailesilasse I the LORD JEHOVA is the pinnacle of blasphemies. Without all that baggage you can venerate the emperor privately as proper to a saint, ask him his prayers, no one will oppose you. However what is here being done here as evidenced by those terms used for declaration of His DIVINITY is ADORATION & WORSHIP of the person of Emperor Hailessilase I which is clearly Blasphemous!

If all Rastafarians say JAH RASTAFARI I , despite their professed differences of one sect from the other, this becomes their uniting factor, and as there are Orthodox Christians and Christians of different denominations yet are all united in the belief of the DIVINITY of Christ, despite their other differences, then the same seems to be the case by those who hang on to the declaration of Faith by Rastafarians as the term itself says it , tells you who they follow but if you want to differentiate who worships him and who simply follows the political social side of things in there, hearing the Rasta speak the declaration of faith will be sufficient : JAH RASTAFARI I.

Your priest obviously dose not know you still chant to and hail the Emperor as JAH RASTAFARI I, for I find it totally unthinkable to believe an orthodox Christian priest will also agree to this blasphemy of calling the emperor the LORD JEHOVA!I know the Holy Apostles will not call this Orthodox! I know St. Athanasius will not call this orthodox; the Cappadocian Fathers will not call this Orthodox! I know St. Cyril will not Call this orthodox , I know St. John Chrysostom will not call this Orthodox ,I know St. Deoscoros will not Call this orthodox! I could go on, but you get my drift, it is not I who will condemn such blatant blasphemous adoration of the Emperor as JAH RASTAFARI I, it is the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Orthodox Church that will do so!

Ok here goes another attempt of distortion of the matter at hand again:

"Further, it is because our priests actually LISTEN to what we say, and again, as you said, we have the right to venerate non-canonized Saints in private, and no one here was saying, "It is Orthodox to publicly venerate HIM, it is required of ALL Ethiopian Orthodox to venerate Emperor" however you are dead-wrong when you tell us as individuals that we don't have this right to practice our devotion in private. Private does not mean secret, it simply means that the Church does not celebrate the Saint in Liturgy, we members can still venerate them, this is because of the Church Triumphant and Communion of ALL SAINTS, those canonized are canonized for public, liturgical worship, but they are not necessarily elevated above or better than any other saint of God's kingdom, you and I included, which is precisely why we say in Christian to our brothers and sisters, "Pray for me." Is that a sin? Are we insinuating that all Christians are God when we ask them to pray for us? If some of us here see HIM as a Saint, we have that right of the Holy Spirit, and if we insist that HIM is NOT GOD, how are you to tell us what we are saying HIM is, when that is simply not the case?"

my reply to this is going to be quoting my own previous statement on this matter of veneration of a saint Vs. Worshiping of the Emperor as JAH RASTAFARI here is what I said, so it’s a shame to imply I forbid you from asking his prayers in private veneration I specifically address that one cannot venerate an un canonized person as a CANONNISED SAINT in public however private venerations are allowed and they are called private not to mean secrete but to refer to the declaration of Sainthood and all the Canonical practices that follow :-

“however before God there is no point in rationalising such blasphemy! One must stand up and give Laban his idols! One must stop giving this reason or that to hid the idol that is still with Oneself. its horrific its sickening and The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church utterly rejects , and anathematise it! woe unto those who would give what belongs to The Almighty God to a mere creature ,a pile of dust such as a man! For Who is like Our God? NO ONE!!! All honor and glory a man got is because of the Honor and Glory that was given to him by the Holy Trinity!

This is a scandalous thing one that is a stumbling block for all others that seek the Truth found in Orthodoxy! the Church has a proper way to venerate a saint , in this case the Church has not canonised the Emperor hailesialsie the first. so public veneration as a saint is an un canonical practice. private veneration of a faithful departed should be done in the proper christian manner and in private. anythingelse is foreign to the Apostolic Tradition of the Church. however Idolatry is indirect opposition to everything we believe in and hold dear.”“My interest is to Stress that veneration of Saints is authentically Orthodox. I have nothing against venerating those holy men and women of orthodoxy. however the faith confessed by some harbors the tares of heresy and wherever it is seen it will be challenged and refuted. the Orthodox will never accept the scandalous Idolatry terminology of JAH being RASTAFARI.

Venerate Teferi mekonin as a Saint when he is canonised, venerate him privately even now, however JAH RASTAFARI remains the confession of the rastafarians who worship The man Teferi mekonin. and those who say they have joined the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church can not repeat such blasphemy and say JAH RASTAFARI I which specifically refers to JAH IS RASTAFARI the first AKA the Emperor Halie Selassie the First (I).’’

So please refrain from putting words into my mouth and stop from attempting to distort my main point here. IE the Blasphemous terminology of JAH RASTAFARI I!

"This was not a thread to worship the Emperor, this was a thread to praise the legacy, and you would have been better to offer nostalgic stories and testimonies as an Ethiopian women your experience with HIM, instead of simply needlessly arguing against your brethren and sistren who you seem to misunderstand. This was a slightly political thread, because it was about the Emperor, who is a political figure. You misunderstood Ras Zacka's implications with the conspiracies and assassinations, the brother was testifying that Ethiopian clergy and people face an existential threat from the current Ethiopian regime, and we Rastafari people are a part of that risk, not because of our love for the Emperor, but simply because we are now part of the Ethiopian community. If you don't believe the stories, I can tell you from experience they are true, I fellowship with that parish in Dallas and there are many other dangerous and crazy stories, so that we here in exile in the US and abroad pray day and night for the safety of our leaders, our clergy, and our membership. We Rastafari are part of the Community, HIM invited us, and if you don't like it that is your opinion, but I have never met Ethiopians as vociferously negative towards Rastafari people in their Church as you have been on this thread, I can only pray that you are hiding behind the internet, and if we met in your parish face to face you wouldn't dare be so rude to a visiting member of our mutual Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church."

It would have been wonderful if this thread was restricted to praising the legacy of the emperor as you claim, however as we have seen it quickly turned into a blasphemy when you chanted your all Hail the Emperor Silassie I JAH! That was the turning point and then when later asked by Christians to correct your terminology you chose all manner of distortion to hang on to that basic fabric of idolatry that originated from the original founders of Rastafarians. THAT changed EVERYTHING, destroyed your credibility, and validity of your word. For all of us know what that term means!

As to your friend Ras Zacka and his conspiracy theories of being hunted by TPLF soldiers in the US and carrebians, *sigh* plus his accusation of the Patriarch Paulos Shooting and Killing a Monk, in broad day light of a feast day before the faithful gathered, plus accusing Ethiopians here of Poisoning the Blessed Bishop Abuna Yesehaq whose death perhaps in the mind of zacka must also be collaborated by the Hospital the Abune went to, otherwise the whole theory falls apart, etc etc. I have no time to address all these delusions. We know the Rastafarians have had assassinations among them but that does not translate into Ethiopians suddenly hunting Rastafarians, sorry to say but they are not seen as grand threat as they would like to believe. TPLF has other fish to fry, other threats to worry about, and it is absolutely not the return of the Monarchy but the establishment of the Federal Democratic Government which upholds the Rule of Law!

I am one of those who strongly oppose the rule of TPLF in Ethiopia, yet Even I know better than to follow the loose cannons that see demons everywhere and spread a crazy rumor as fact. That demeans the true plight of the People of Ethiopia both from the point of political social economical and yes religious perspective. Because persecution of clergy we see in Eretria the Blessed Patriarch still languishing in God knows where hell hole now that is a true persecution! The Orthodox church in Ethiopia for the most part can function well, the Placement of Patriarch Paulos and Abdication of the former has its own political as well as real canonical reasons. Those who are here in opposition to the TPLF have their own history of political intrigue as well; I will not air it all up in here as it is of no use other than yammering away for no feasible positive outcome on the matter. But all this and much of what he said is left to the Rastafarian talk of nationalistic and racial twist on the Catholic Faith , one that sees the universality of the faith in racial seclusionary camps of black love, white love red love etc, I have no time for that!!

As far as being rude to anyone, I have no intention of being so , merely stating my political outlooks as you guys have been preaching the return of monarchy using all manner of argument, that some I find extremely offensive to the plight and reality of the People of Ethiopia. other than the political side of things the Faith issue I have been addressing is clear, I will not apologies for calling a blasphemous statement out for what it is. Face to face or otherwise on the world wide web my reaction will be the same, I have been dealing with Evangelicals, Jehovah witnesses , atheist communists , Muslims, and yes few Rastafarians as well. I have never hesitated to put them in their place when those that are not orthodox claim to be one, and those who think they can blaspheme my faith and my Church before my very eyes. My intent is never to engage in altercations or rude insults, however to firmly assert my faith, and if possible show people the correct Orthodox Faith and in believing it they will let the Holy Spirit Transform their lives.

PS. the others using Kibre negast which is not a cannonical book of the church and also the rastafarian commentary of it which totaly distorts its usage of scriptural reference to fit thier fetish of an Earthly Utopia, and referenses of some material between the Zagewe Dynasty and the Axumite one which Ethiopians already know to be the political propaganda between two house of royalities , here taken out of context to make it a matter of Faith, is all in the mind of the Rastafarian Monarchists who consistently miss out on the reality of Ethiopian History and the present day plight of the people.

I am not even gonna bother with adressing that rubbish!

In Christ,Hiwot.

Logged

To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

God Cipher Divine, as I build on an incline Quick to help another, 'cause I know I'ma get mine Build-Powers think they hard, but they killin' they own kind Emphatically no, divine evil got him in his mind Now you caught a case you're in the mountains, you're a lifer With no skins from your girl, that's a He-Cipher-Monkey-Cipher Or you can use the next plan . . .

The Rastafarians in this thread seem to go to neverending lengths to prove their pseudo-religion/political/racial movement compatible with Orthodoxy. I am absolutely not buying it, and the fact that it comes with a healthy dose of "Ethiopians don't know they are black", "y'all are acting like those darn Ethiopians" (in not putting up with Rastafari BS, I suppose) and all kinds of other really not okay statements is not exactly helping the claims that Rastafarianism is not about racism, but about elevating black consciousness or whatever. I think it's pretty clear Ethiopians know who they are. It seems to me (and again, this might just be silly ferenji talk, so if I've wandered over to the adults' table uninvited just let me know and I'll take my ball and go home) that what's going on here instead is that the Rastas have hurt feelings because the Orthodox Church is not blessing their nonsense.

Wellllp, too bad. The more posts full of incoherent, possibly racist and certainly inappropriately pseudo-messianic prophecies and other statements are cheered on by the Rastafarian Orthodox, the more it becomes obvious to anyone outside of the Rastafarian subculture (including, my stars, ACTUAL ETHIOPIANS...yigermal!) that there are two masters being served here.

That's not good for anyone, no matter what their color, nationality, or background.

Some people will never overstand. At this point, I see no reason to continue trying to prove the authenticity of our Orthodox Faith to them. JAH knows our hearts, and He alone is our Judge. I have offered apologies to Hiwot on two occasions where I truly thought I spoke in a less than Christian manner, but I received neither acknowledgment of those apologies nor forgiveness. I love the sister anyway; and in spite of what she thinks of us, let us continue to view and honor her as our Tewahedo sister.

The last words I posted were intended to be may last. They were quotes from His Imperial Majesty, around which I had hoped that all of us who are baptized Orthodox Christians could unite. But unfortunately, these words were ignored and the attacks and insults against us continue. Ignorance can be enlightened, and arrogance can be repented of; but when ignorance and arrogance wed, then a fool is born.

So let us shake the dust from our feet and move forward from this negativity and divisiveness. We have be washed anew in the waters of Holy Baptism, and we know we are JAH's children. It matters not what others think about us, although it is indeed sad that our own Orthodox brethren malign us in this un-Christian manner.

I pray that everyone please read the words of His Majesty again, and let us all strive to focus on our own sins rather than condemning our brethren. And for the third time, I offer my sincere apologies to Hiwot and everyone else for having not always conveyed my views on this thread with a spirit of Christian love. I ask your forgiveness.

This thread has become so contentious, and I truly believe that much of the rancor is due to profound misunderstandings amongst us. I want to apologize if I have not communicated my thoughts clearly, and I also sincerely apologize for the un-Christian tone of many of my comments. We are all Orthodox brethren here, and Satan will do whatever he can to divide us. Since my comments have not seemed to further understanding and peace, I thought it best that I bow out of this discussion now and leave you with some inspirational words from His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I- words with which I certainly hope we can all agree:

“Sound and organized deliberation and action by men who may have neither family, nor religion, nor tribe, nor neighborhood in common, but who have, notwithstanding, been able to come together, to identify their common interests, and to agree upon effective programs to advance those interests... This is the new attitude which must be encouraged: the communal as opposed to the individual approach, the spirit of working together so that all may benefit.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“How long will we, who are disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, who are taught by the same Holy Bible, continue to remain divided among ourselves?” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Had we been Christian people, had we been worthy of the name, peace would have reigned on all the face of the Earth. We would have risen to the level of the immortal angels who always glorify the Eternal God, and the peoples of the world would no longer have remained divided into hostile camps.”-H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Above all, we must avoid the pitfalls of tribalism. If we are divided among ourselves, we open our doors to harmful consequences.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“He who would efface the sacred work of Almighty God, he who would abuse the mysteries of God’s creation and discriminate between man and man – whom God created equal – on the basis of color, race, or creed, calls down upon himself disaster and ruin.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Until ignorance has been eradicated, understanding and sympathy cannot truly exist among men. Without tolerance and comprehension, peace will not be assured.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“The very diversity of the world’s people today constitutes one of mankind’s greatest resources. Each of us depends upon the other, can learn from the other, and in pursuing its own destiny will go further and succeed more quickly with others. Indeed, the free exchange of ideas is an essential condition to world understanding and world progress.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

Selam

Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

No, it's about respect. Ras Zacka has none for those of us who don't understand the obvious affectation he's putting on when he posts here. When I want to know what the OO think, I'll ask Hiwot or Fr. Peter. At least they can discuss things with me instead of proverbially yelling at me. You once had a sympathetic ear about all this because I'm all about letting people who are actually a part of a group tell me about the group and take their words at face value. I see, however, that you and Ras Zacka don't have the respect for me or others to slow down and answer some very basic questions without throwing our ignorance in our faces.

Way to go. Hope you two are happy with yourselves.

Umm, excuse me but did not not read the lengthy post I spent an hour typing which clarified in sophisticated and proper English exactly what points that brother was making through is affections? Please easy with the accusations, I have been trying my best to facilitate and explain for people who don't know, but unlike on other threads in the past, people have been needless hostile and antagonistic to me, Ras Zacka, and GMK on this thread, and we've kept our cool surprisingly well all things considering. I have been getting way to much antagonism from this forum lately, folks should ease up with all this cuss cuss and mix up..

I must admit, this personal slander and attack on Ras Zacka on my thread is beginning to upset me, it is bordering on racism as well, and folks should kindly refrain from continuing down that line outside of the PM.

stay blessed,habte selassie

OK. Now you back up those "allegations".

Where is the "racism"? Or what borders on it? Be specific. I want quotes. And names.

That you even believe in race as a legitimate construct anymore is quite odd.

Had Ras Zacka been speaking with these folks here face to face, with his accent, mannerisms, and specific way of speaking, which is also a particularly black cultural way of speaking, and folks were to be so dismissive to his words and say the say mean-spirited criticisms of his way of speaking to his face, that would be blatantly racist, because the brother happens to use black cultural expressions. Hiding behind the internet is not fair, hiding behind being the grammar police is not fair. The brother expressed black cultural values and ways of speaking, and several folks insisted on attacking not the substance of his post, but simply the way he speaks. That is not fair. I am not trying to insinuate that those who criticized him were racist, but I would say their comments and continued insisting on criticizing the way he spoke, is yes, bordering on racism, because it is a "black cultural" way in which he was speaking. Did folks terrorize Sister Hiwot when she posted comments saying she didn't feel her english was strong? No, they politely ignored any typos or misspellings or grammatical errors (which by the way, for her are very few, she is very eloquent with her English whether she realizes it or not )just as when other folks who speak English as a second language have grammar errors, folks don't berate them over it. Folks here shouldn't have berated brother Ras Zacka over these matters either, especially considering the brother is part of the Orthodox communion, even if he has views folks here disagree with.

Now as to regards to Sister Hiwot, please put me in my place dear sister, instead of burning all that hotta fyah, why don't you just back away with all your mix up and your cuss cuss , I ain't having it anymore. You have been arrogant, rude, and dismissive to your brothers and sisters as if we were trash in the street. You draw lines in the sand that even our own clergy and confessors do not draw, as if you yourself were the blessed Patriarch of the Church or a Metropolitan Bishop. You make so many wild assumptions, and then when we clarify for you, instead of hearing us, you continue with your wild assumptions. I tell you our priests don't diss us, so you just assume our priests are ignorant. Do you think we lie or hide our day to day reality from our priests? No sister, but they are wiser in the Apostolic Faith than you, because they are not divisive, dismissive, or vitriolic, they are loving, peaceful, and prayerful.

Is it Orthodox for ones to worship the Emperor as God? Of course not, and NOBODY HERE AS SUGGESTED SUCH! Please, I'm through with this, go ahead and put ini on your block list, because you've been denser than lead for a week now anyways, and I am so thoroughly vexed and appalled all I can do is pray. If you had continued in your accusations without folks having addressed your points, then I would not be upset, but that you continue to simply ignore what we say, or dismiss it as nonsense, when it is our reality, that is just simply in poor taste and as I said rude. This thread was going in a wonderful direction, but folks have derailed it, and that is a shame. Folks have turned this into a silly, straw-man argument where we Rastafari members of the Ethiopian Church and of this OC.NET forum as spent a considerable amount of time and patience explaining ourselves, only to be insistently dismissed, disregarded, and disrespected. Oh well..

Check it though..

"If ya a bull-bucka.. let me tell ya this.. I'm a duppy, conqueror!"

Easy on the hotta fyah, seen? Check this, the fyah is not partial, not even to them that burn the fyah, so be careful what ya kindle and burn, all that red red anger vibes might just burn ya up in the mix. Or as Apostle Paul said to those who want "proper English and grammer" in Galatians 5,

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"Beware if you bite and devour one another, less at some time you be consumed."

stay blessed,habtte selassie

« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 09:01:42 PM by HabteSelassie »

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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

It's not a matter of castigating a brother for his speech variety. It is a simple matter of whether or not the variety used can be understood by the audience in the context in which it is used. It is entirely possible that Ras may not have access to another variety, which is fine, but I think to ascribe the frustration that many feel in trying to understand what has been written to some latent or blatant racism is absolutely uncalled for.

wow so called christians.i send love to you and you send hate.when yu speak am for peace ,but when i speak you are for WAR.i woulld not wanna be a flea under yr collar in day of judgement if this is hatred.I SAY ONE BLACK LOVE TO ALL.IT CAN BLOT OUT WRONGS,SO LOVE HAS A COLOR..CHRISTOS BLOOD RED TILL IT BLACK AND COVERS MY SIN.CAN IT COVERS YOURS?MORE LOVE TO ALL AGAIN.AM GONNA SEE WHO ARE THE ONES WITH LOVE TODAY...GOD IS WATCHING AND KNOWS ALL HEARTS.HE IS SILENT LISTENER TO EVERY CONVERSATION..LONG TIME I KNEW THIS WAS A RACIST CHURCH SITE..BUT I SAY LOVE TO ALL AGAIN..ISU YAWKAL....HIWOT...MORE LOVE....AND THE DIRTY MOUTH BROTHER ..I SAY MORE LOVE TO ALL.I WILL BRUTALIZE EVERYONE WITH LOVE...GABRE THANKS FOR LOVE TO PEOPLE...HABTE THANKS FOR LOVE TO PEOPLE...WHERE DOGS ARE NOT INVITED,BONES ARE NOT PROVIDED...KILL THEM WITH LOVE..

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Behold Philistia and Tyre,with Ethiopia ,this MAN was born there. And of Zion it shall be said ,this MAN and that MAN was born in HER!!psalm 87

wow so called christians.i send love to you and you send hate.when yu speak am for peace ,but when i speak you are for WAR.i woulld not wanna be a flea under yr collar in day of judgement if this is hatred.I SAY ONE BLACK LOVE TO ALL.IT CAN BLOT OUT WRONGS,SO LOVE HAS A COLOR..CHRISTOS BLOOD RED TILL IT BLACK AND COVERS MY SIN.CAN IT COVERS YOURS?MORE LOVE TO ALL AGAIN.AM GONNA SEE WHO ARE THE ONES WITH LOVE TODAY...GOD IS WATCHING AND KNOWS ALL HEARTS.HE IS SILENT LISTENER TO EVERY CONVERSATION..LONG TIME I KNEW THIS WAS A RACIST CHURCH SITE..BUT I SAY LOVE TO ALL AGAIN..ISU YAWKAL....HIWOT...MORE LOVE....AND THE DIRTY MOUTH BROTHER ..I SAY MORE LOVE TO ALL.I WILL BRUTALIZE EVERYONE WITH LOVE...GABRE THANKS FOR LOVE TO PEOPLE...HABTE THANKS FOR LOVE TO PEOPLE...WHERE DOGS ARE NOT INVITED,BONES ARE NOT PROVIDED...KILL THEM WITH LOVE..

YES I! ONE LOVE MY BREDDA!!!

+++

Selam

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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

wow so called christians.i send love to you and you send hate.when yu speak am for peace ,but when i speak you are for WAR.i woulld not wanna be a flea under yr collar in day of judgement if this is hatred.I SAY ONE BLACK LOVE TO ALL.IT CAN BLOT OUT WRONGS,SO LOVE HAS A COLOR..CHRISTOS BLOOD RED TILL IT BLACK AND COVERS MY SIN.CAN IT COVERS YOURS?MORE LOVE TO ALL AGAIN.AM GONNA SEE WHO ARE THE ONES WITH LOVE TODAY...GOD IS WATCHING AND KNOWS ALL HEARTS.HE IS SILENT LISTENER TO EVERY CONVERSATION..LONG TIME I KNEW THIS WAS A RACIST CHURCH SITE..BUT I SAY LOVE TO ALL AGAIN..ISU YAWKAL....HIWOT...MORE LOVE....AND THE DIRTY MOUTH BROTHER ..I SAY MORE LOVE TO ALL.I WILL BRUTALIZE EVERYONE WITH LOVE...GABRE THANKS FOR LOVE TO PEOPLE...HABTE THANKS FOR LOVE TO PEOPLE...WHERE DOGS ARE NOT INVITED,BONES ARE NOT PROVIDED...KILL THEM WITH LOVE..

Greetings ras zacka. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW YOU CAN SAY THIS SITE IS RACIST? WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF RACIST? WE HAVE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM FROM MANY, MANY RACES....AND WE ALL SEEM TO GET ALONG JUST FINE. JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE MIGHT DISAGREE WITH YOU, OR YOUR THEOLOGY, DOESN'T MAKE THEM RACIST. REMEMBER, THE LORD IS NOT ONLY LISTENING TO "OUR" CONVERSATIONS, BUT, TO YOURS, AS WELL. CAN YOU TELL ME WHY YOU TYPE IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS? DO YOU REALIZE IT MAKES YOUR MESSAGES HARDER TO READ...PLUS, YOU APPEAR TO BE YELLING ALL THEM TIME. JUST SAYING. BY THE WAY, WELCOME TO THE FORUM. IF YOU OPEN YOUR EYES AND YOUR HEART, YOU WILL FIND IT A GREAT PLACE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR FAITH, TEACH ABOUT YOUR FAITH, AND GROW LASTING FRIENDSHIPS. WELCOME, AGAIN.

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Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.—St. Isaac of Syria

wow so called christians.i send love to you and you send hate.when yu speak am for peace ,but when i speak you are for WAR.i woulld not wanna be a flea under yr collar in day of judgement if this is hatred.I SAY ONE BLACK LOVE TO ALL.IT CAN BLOT OUT WRONGS,SO LOVE HAS A COLOR..CHRISTOS BLOOD RED TILL IT BLACK AND COVERS MY SIN.CAN IT COVERS YOURS?MORE LOVE TO ALL AGAIN.AM GONNA SEE WHO ARE THE ONES WITH LOVE TODAY...GOD IS WATCHING AND KNOWS ALL HEARTS.HE IS SILENT LISTENER TO EVERY CONVERSATION..LONG TIME I KNEW THIS WAS A RACIST CHURCH SITE..BUT I SAY LOVE TO ALL AGAIN..ISU YAWKAL....HIWOT...MORE LOVE....AND THE DIRTY MOUTH BROTHER ..I SAY MORE LOVE TO ALL.I WILL BRUTALIZE EVERYONE WITH LOVE...GABRE THANKS FOR LOVE TO PEOPLE...HABTE THANKS FOR LOVE TO PEOPLE...WHERE DOGS ARE NOT INVITED,BONES ARE NOT PROVIDED...KILL THEM WITH LOVE..

A lovely sentiment, but totally unrelated to Christianity. The Apostles would not use such juxtapositions with love.

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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Had Ras Zacka been speaking with these folks here face to face, with his accent, mannerisms, and specific way of speaking, which is also a particularly black cultural way of speaking, and folks were to be so dismissive to his words and say the say mean-spirited criticisms of his way of speaking to his face, that would be blatantly racist, because the brother happens to use black cultural expressions

Ah, so broken sentences and caps lock are black? Wow, wait till I neighbor that he's been doing it wrong.

"Hmmm, Im losing this debate...how can I turn it to win? Oh yeah! Race!"

pfft.

PP

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"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Is it the norm in Rastafarian culture to agree with everything your bredren says?

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She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.--"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18--I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --Life went on no matter who was wrong or right