He just is not in the class of a Thomas or Urlacher and that's what I want.

thomas and urlacher have been in the NFL allot longer then vilma, this was vilma's 3rd year, if he was as good as them right now he could be on the pace to be one of the best LB's in the history of the NFL, just wait, be thankful hes this good this early in his career.

"They think we spellin iverson when the beef all done cuz you be on I-Vs in the E-R son"- 40 Cal" Winning isn't everything; its the only thing"

Will you all be singing the same tune next year if Vilma comes back with the same lackluster, non-existent season he had this year? We are most likely not going to get a huge dominant NT this season, and Vilma will most likely suffer because of it. What if we had a shot at dealing Vilma for a top 15 pick in this years draft and move Hobson inside with Barton?

Look I think Vilma is a great player. I want that to be clear. But if you are not going to use a guy to his potential, why not get equal value for him while you can? All I'm saying is if Mangini and Co. don't think Vilma is the right type of person to play in his defense, then get someone in there who can.

Personally I think to many people are letting their emotions cloud their judgement. We all love Vilma because he is a star that we drafted. He plays the game the right way and says all the right things. But if he's not getting it done, let's not make excuses for him. Simply put he did not get it done this year, that's the bottomline. I will definately give him another year to prove he can play in the 3-4, I'll go nuts for him, hell I'll be wearing his jersey. But I will be pissed if in a year or two of continually lackluster play, Mangini n Co. finally decide to try someone else and we give him away for 50 cents on the dollar.

And I know what the response will be, he's the general of the defense if nothing else. Well that is great, but believe me, Vilma is not the only intelligent player with a good work ethic out there.

Will you all be singing the same tune next year if Vilma comes back with the same lackluster, non-existent season he had this year? We are most likely not going to get a huge dominant NT this season, and Vilma will most likely suffer because of it. What if we had a shot at dealing Vilma for a top 15 pick in this years draft and move Hobson inside with Barton?

Look I think Vilma is a great player. I want that to be clear. But if you are not going to use a guy to his potential, why not get equal value for him while you can? All I'm saying is if Mangini and Co. don't think Vilma is the right type of person to play in his defense, then get someone in there who can.

Personally I think to many people are letting their emotions cloud their judgement. We all love Vilma because he is a star that we drafted. He plays the game the right way and says all the right things. But if he's not getting it done, let's not make excuses for him. Simply put he did not get it done this year, that's the bottomline. I will definately give him another year to prove he can play in the 3-4, I'll go nuts for him, hell I'll be wearing his jersey. But I will be pissed if in a year or two of continually lackluster play, Mangini n Co. finally decide to try someone else and we give him away for 50 cents on the dollar.

And I know what the response will be, he's the general of the defense if nothing else. Well that is great, but believe me, Vilma is not the only intelligent player with a good work ethic out there.

Will you all be singing the same tune next year if Vilma comes back with the same lackluster, non-existent season he had this year? We are most likely not going to get a huge dominant NT this season, and Vilma will most likely suffer because of it. What if we had a shot at dealing Vilma for a top 15 pick in this years draft and move Hobson inside with Barton?

Look I think Vilma is a great player. I want that to be clear. But if you are not going to use a guy to his potential, why not get equal value for him while you can? All I'm saying is if Mangini and Co. don't think Vilma is the right type of person to play in his defense, then get someone in there who can.

Personally I think to many people are letting their emotions cloud their judgement. We all love Vilma because he is a star that we drafted. He plays the game the right way and says all the right things. But if he's not getting it done, let's not make excuses for him. Simply put he did not get it done this year, that's the bottomline. I will definately give him another year to prove he can play in the 3-4, I'll go nuts for him, hell I'll be wearing his jersey. But I will be pissed if in a year or two of continually lackluster play, Mangini n Co. finally decide to try someone else and we give him away for 50 cents on the dollar.

And I know what the response will be, he's the general of the defense if nothing else. Well that is great, but believe me, Vilma is not the only intelligent player with a good work ethic out there.

No maybe not...but he has that rare quality in combining that intelligence and work ethic with great speed, athleticism, leadership, tackling ability, and play diagnosing...that is what makes him so special...believe me...

And how can you call his past season "lackluster" and say "he's not getting it done?" Is 113 tackles, good for 19th best in the league, lackluster? Especially for a guy learning a new system? If we should trade Vilma for only getting 113 tackles...should the rest of the league be dumping their sub-113 tackle players?

One final note...only two 3-4 linebackers had more tackles than Vilma...Donnie Edwards and James Farrior...CASE CLOSED!!!

No maybe not...but he has that rare quality in combining that intelligence and work ethic with great speed, athleticism, leadership, tackling ability, and play diagnosing...that is what makes him so special...believe me...

And how can you call his past season "lackluster" and say "he's not getting it done?" Is 113 tackles, good for 19th best in the league, lackluster? Especially for a guy learning a new system? If we should trade Vilma for only getting 113 tackles...should the rest of the league be dumping their sub-113 tackle players?

One final note...only two 3-4 linebackers had more tackles than Vilma...Donnie Edwards and James Farrior...CASE CLOSED!!!

Oh come on, you know full well stats don't tell the whole story. But if you want to focus on tackles, I'll point out that he had only 67 solo out of those 113. Edwards had 98 and Farrior had 85. Here's some more stats, Vilma 0 sacks and 0 forced fumbles. Now like I said stats don't tell the whole story, but those are a bit telling. What I am really focusing my opinion on is what I see when I watch VIlma play this year. Consistently out of position and being blocked all over the field. Often you don't even notice him out there because he is so far away from the play. That is the worst possible trait a ILB can have. His head should be in the middle of every play. And also on all those tackles you mention, how often were they 4-6 yards down field? He had an average season at best, thats unacceptable from Vilma.

Oh come on, you know full well stats don't tell the whole story. But if you want to focus on tackles, I'll point out that he had only 67 solo out of those 113. Edwards had 98 and Farrior had 85. Here's some more stats, Vilma 0 sacks and 0 forced fumbles. Now like I said stats don't tell the whole story, but those are a bit telling. What I am really focusing my opinion on is what I see when I watch VIlma play this year. Consistently out of position and being blocked all over the field. Often you don't even notice him out there because he is so far away from the play. That is the worst possible trait a ILB can have. His head should be in the middle of every play. And also on all those tackles you mention, how often were they 4-6 yards down field? He had an average season at best, thats unacceptable from Vilma.

Well that is something we can't argue unless we sat down together and watched film...but something tells me we aren't going to cuddle up under a blanket and grab a bag of popcorn anytime soon...so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'll only say if he truely was out of position at times...I'll chalk it up to learning the 3-4...however much of an weak excuse you may think that is...

As a side note...do you think solo tackles are more highly regarded than shared tackles? Just out of curiosity...

I don't think it should make a difference...having less solo tackles to me sounds like you have a good team that all swarm to the ball as opposed to one star amongst a bunch of rejects. We all know Vilma is perfectly capable of laying someone out in the open field...so I'm not sure I would even care if every single one of his tackles wasn't solo.

As a side note...do you think solo tackles are more highly regarded than shared tackles? Just out of curiosity...

I don't think it should make a difference...having less solo tackles to me sounds like you have a good team that all swarm to the ball as opposed to one star amongst a bunch of rejects. We all know Vilma is perfectly capable of laying someone out in the open field...so I'm not sure I would even care if every single one of his tackles wasn't solo.

Well I would say that solo's are more important because they are more difficult. Think about it, some of the cheap assist tackles that guys get tacked on are bs half the time. I'm not saying its a useless stat I just think solo means more, the guy was on his own and made a play, or read something and broke through and made a nice play. Also if you just look at the trend. Often better players have more solo tackles, so I'm assuming there's a correlation. But of course that also gets inflated if someone is on a terrible squad. Case in point Demeco Ryans rackin up huge numbers. Like I said before I don't care that much for stats, but I just thought the fact that Vilma had a relatively low percentage of solo tackles meant something.

Oh come on, you know full well stats don't tell the whole story. But if you want to focus on tackles, I'll point out that he had only 67 solo out of those 113. Edwards had 98 and Farrior had 85. Here's some more stats, Vilma 0 sacks and 0 forced fumbles. Now like I said stats don't tell the whole story, but those are a bit telling. What I am really focusing my opinion on is what I see when I watch VIlma play this year. Consistently out of position and being blocked all over the field. Often you don't even notice him out there because he is so far away from the play. That is the worst possible trait a ILB can have. His head should be in the middle of every play. And also on all those tackles you mention, how often were they 4-6 yards down field? He had an average season at best, thats unacceptable from Vilma.

Question is will you be singning the same tune if in 2 years Vilma is dominant and considered one of the best? That's my question...it's easy to support people when they're doing good...but it's a lot harder when they're struggling.

If in 2 years Vilma really can't handle the 3-4...let him go...but I will still be content in knowing we gave one of the best young linebackers to come around in a long time a shot...regardless if we could have gotten a first round draft pick for him..

How can you guys go by tackles to make the sole case for a player??? That's the most inaccurate stat in the NFL. It's really based solely on opinion. In the Buffalo game, you can make as good as a case he got 1 (which is the final number), or 4, it can go either way.I have a question for you. Is Wayne Chrebet a Hall of Famer??? Is he the greatest wide reciever the game has ever seen??? The greatest wide reciever the Jets ever had??? No, and you'd be retarded to think so with any of the 3 statements. He had one 1000 yard season. Never got 100 catches a season. So...why do we love him so much??? I'm with Wayne here, though he'll soon take a back seat to my poodle again, he's in my avatar, has been for about a year. But we signed him as an UDFA. He was a hometown boy. He was a clutch player. But above all, we loved the toughness and determination of the guy said to be too small to do anything with football. But he made it, and did it.Now sure, Vilma doesn't have the whole underdog story like Wayne. But he's been the best player on this team since joining it. Between tradings, injuries, cuts, waiver wires, and coaching changes, Vilma has remained the one costant since joining the team. And he is statistically and mentally good at football, even if some random fan were to look up Jet player stats, they'd be able to see Vilma is great. Now, granted I love Wayne, they wouldn't think he's in the same class as Vilma.He has two great seasons as a young star. That's the thing, he's played 3 years with two COMPLETELY opposite coaching staffs in those times. That's a hard transition to make for a guy that's to make defensive calls in the huddle and when they're lined up, then deal with coaching and player trasactions, in only 3 years. Give the guy a break, it's one average year. Get over it, I mean, it was after all a rebuilding year.

"You ask, what is our aim?... It is victory, victory at all cost" Winston Churchill.
Member since March 25, 2005.

How can you guys go by tackles to make the sole case for a player??? That's the most inaccurate stat in the NFL. It's really based solely on opinion. In the Buffalo game, you can make as good as a case he got 1 (which is the final number), or 4, it can go either way.I have a question for you. Is Wayne Chrebet a Hall of Famer??? Is he the greatest wide reciever the game has ever seen??? The greatest wide reciever the Jets ever had??? No, and you'd be retarded to think so with any of the 3 statements. He had one 1000 yard season. Never got 100 catches a season. So...why do we love him so much??? I'm with Wayne here, though he'll soon take a back seat to my poodle again, he's in my avatar, has been for about a year. But we signed him as an UDFA. He was a hometown boy. He was a clutch player. But above all, we loved the toughness and determination of the guy said to be too small to do anything with football. But he made it, and did it.Now sure, Vilma doesn't have the whole underdog story like Wayne. But he's been the best player on this team since joining it. Between tradings, injuries, cuts, waiver wires, and coaching changes, Vilma has remained the one costant since joining the team. And he is statistically and mentally good at football, even if some random fan were to look up Jet player stats, they'd be able to see Vilma is great. Now, granted I love Wayne, they wouldn't think he's in the same class as Vilma.He has two great seasons as a young star. That's the thing, he's played 3 years with two COMPLETELY opposite coaching staffs in those times. That's a hard transition to make for a guy that's to make defensive calls in the huddle and when they're lined up, then deal with coaching and player trasactions, in only 3 years. Give the guy a break, it's one average year. Get over it, I mean, it was after all a rebuilding year.

Now that's what I'm talking about! Chrebet is the type of player I want. He didn't have those huge statistical seasons but he was the go to guy on 3rd down, made almost catch thrown to him and like you said a local guy and a huge underdog. Now Vilma doesn't make the big hits or sacks but is steady. Don't get me wrong, I like vilma and he is the type of character you want on a team, I just want a dominant big hitter to go along with it. What Vilma brings to the team right now can be replaced. There are plenty of LB's that are smart and can make the tackles he does in the 3-4 so if we can get a top 15 pick for him, why not? If not then lets hope he develops into that type of player.

If any fairly big player was going to get traded I would trade D Rob. Now I'm one of the few D Rob supporters...I've always liked what he can do on the field...however...if he can warrant us an early 2nd or possibly even late 1st...I would think long and hard about it.

D Rob has been good this year...but he isn't space eater...and he isn't tall enough nor does he really have the arm length necessary to be a 3-4 DE. I still would rather keep him as I like his versatility and combo of size and speed...but I wouldn't be too terribley distraught if we got an early pick in a trade for him.

If any fairly big player was going to get traded I would trade D Rob. Now I'm one of the few D Rob supporters...I've always liked what he can do on the field...however...if he can warrant us an early 2nd or possibly even late 1st...I would think long and hard about it.

D Rob has been good this year...but he isn't space eater...and he isn't tall enough nor does he really have the arm length necessary to be a 3-4 DE. I still would rather keep him as I like his versatility and combo of size and speed...but I wouldn't be too terribley distraught if we got an early pick in a trade for him.

There is a lot of talk about D-Rob going to DE but for some reason I doubt it gets done. I can't even remember seeing him play DE at all this year. Personally I think he's a waste at DT in a 3-4 so if he doesn't move to End I agree he should be traded.

Most people are so ungrateful to be alive, but not you, not any more...

There is a lot of talk about D-Rob going to DE but for some reason I doubt it gets done. I can't even remember seeing him play DE at all this year. Personally I think he's a waste at DT in a 3-4 so if he doesn't move to End I agree he should be traded.