Ok...maybe I exaggerated a bit...but still when I have to kill EVERY single mob to get to an area...do my quest...then have to kill EVERY single mob to get back out...seriously...I"m tired of kill EVERY single mob I come across, because if I don't they will aggro to me and kill me.../sigh...I"m sry I just don't like the game...the questing was ok at first...but honestly it has turned into to much of a grind

He's got a point there, it literally feels like you've killed half the bad guys in the game just to complete some of the quests.

@ OP:

1. This game was probably the most over hyped game to ever come out. It really seems like they set out to make the most expensive and convoluted MMO in the world, and slapped the Star Wars name on it just for good measure. To me it feels like they could have literally used any IP and the story would be unchanged, it really felt that generic.

2. I never made it to end game, so I don't know how raiding turned out. I do know that it's something they probably should have spent a lot more time on, judging from all the feedback they've gotten about it.

3. I don't think any game is going to compete with Wow unless it breaks away from the formula that MMOs keep clinging to for dear life.

- Leveling (character, professions, reps).
- Stat weights (this is what makes MMOs so hard to balance)
- Meaningless questing (how many times do I have to do the variant of go here, kill X, collect Y, before I reach meaningful content? 1000?)

The term 'MMO' means massively multiplayer online. It does not have to include any of the things I listed above to be a good game with replay value that provides a fun experience to players. If a company can develop an MMO that is good without the things I listed above, then it would stand a good chance of dethroning Wow, as long as it was done well.

I keep playing wow because of the game play mechanics of the different classes and the combat system within pvp. I really don't like questing or leveling all that much, but I do it with each expansion because I know that if I don't, I won't be able to enjoy pvp nearly as much depending on how the paradigm shifts within the twinking world.

A level capped character always has pvp opportunities, so that's what I keep playing for. Absolutely nothing comes even close to comparing to the depth and the skill required to do well in Wow pvp, and if Wow didn't have pvp, I would never have even played it in the first place.

I guess the one saving grace for Wow questing is the humorous and quirky quests that seem to pop up now and again as you visit each zone. Two things that really killed SWTOR for me is the lack of humor and the way pvp is just bad.

Here are my biggest complaints with the game so far, in order of decreasing annoyance:

1: You spend the entire game with an immersive story that includes heavy involvement of your companions. Then, when you hit 50, your companions cease to be even a remote part of your existence in the game. You can't take them to Ilum, you can't use them in Ops, Flashpoints, or 4 Person Groups for Dailies. They become utterly useless. Major, major, major disappointment, I can't believe the lack of foresight in this one.

2: Atrocious server populations. Since launch, primetime fleet population caps at about 45, as low as 10. I can flat out name my opponents and teammates in every PVP match. There is currently only one active 8 man Ops guild on Republic side, and 3 on Imp side. No 16's on the server.

3. Ilum. The objectives really aren't meaningful. People tried using it a lot early on, and it looked promising, but the game engine simply can't handle anything over 24 people combat in a small area. Their only fix for this is "Removing rendering of character models in dense areas." A massive letdown.

4. Glitchy Huttball. It is absurdly easy to exploit this warzone via lag switches, and will never be able to be fixed because of it.

5. Crafting System. This one is less disappointing because BW flat out announced that an economy and deep crafting system were not goals in any way. In any event, crafting is next to useless except for a couple rare instances.

6. No concern for Canon concepts. This game simply doesn't feel like Star Wars to me. Yes, it has lightsabers, but that's about it. This game doesn't particularly feel related to the Kotor franchise either, except for passing references to Revan and Malak, the former getting punked by 4 people in a flashpoint. (Seriously? Really? You let a guy live 300 years, arguably the most powerful Jedi in history, only to have him get bitch-slapped by 4 punk ass Empire? That's about as believable as Dak taking on the entire Imperial Fleet. Get ready to suck some Dak!)

7. I'm a Jedi (Guardian). Please stop sending me out on quests to completely butcher populations. Discretion is the better part of Valor. I might as well have been Dark Side.

Right now my sub is expiring. Waiting for D3, GWII. In the meantime, Skyward Sword and Skyrim are on my plate. Very promising game that failed to deliver. Formulaic to the end, little innovation except for the leveling experience and a PVP concept that ultimately failed due to rampant cheating that can't be moderated.

One thing is that you don't like the game, but to lie to make it look even more stupid is not nice.

To the OP: The game has it pro's and cons. Llv'ing is awsome (IMO) and the end game is somewhat decent. PvP is ok fun also. The problem is that for me tha game still feels a bit unfinished. Hopefully 1.2 will remove most of that feeling. Overall I think it's a good game and if Bioware gets the various bugs sorted and release new content in a steady pace (once every 1½-2 month) then it will do just fine. You don't need 10 mill players to be succesfull.

no, but the shareholders would have looked at wow and said "our game is newer and has a "stronger" fanbase, we should be able todo at least half as well as them!" so when its actually somewhere around 30% of wows subs they say "WHAT THE FUCK WENT WRONG BIOWARE? OK OK LESS MONIES TO YOU."

Play the victim all you want mate, you seem to get perverse pleasure from making up facts and expressing your own opinions as the only ones with any merit.
Your negativity is constant, depressing, often untrue and show a large amount of insecurity.
If people dont like you for it, you only have yourself to blame.

Heres a tip - find a game you like, and say positive things about it, otherwise it seems you have an axe to grind for no reason other then self-justification.

I knew exactly what he was talking about as soon as he said it. The higher in level I got, the more I felt like there was the same amount of content, just more to kill to move through it. The story moves at a fairly rapid pace for thirty levels, and then starts to slow down dramatically and is replaced with a whole lot of killing killing killing. There are very, very few quests that aren't straight kill quests, even if they are dressed up with cut scenes.

I guess the one saving grace for Wow questing is the humorous and quirky quests that seem to pop up now and again as you visit each zone. Two things that really killed SWTOR for me is the lack of humor and the way pvp is just bad.

However, there's always a chance BioWare improves on those things.

Game has plenty of humour if you actually pay attention the dialogue that goes on between companions or npcs. You may not find it particularly all the funny but to say it doesn't exist is misleading. Your opinions are pvp follow the same suit.

---------- Post added 2012-04-03 at 04:49 PM ----------

Originally Posted by akamurdoch

no, but the shareholders would have looked at wow and said "our game is newer and has a "stronger" fanbase, we should be able todo at least half as well as them!" so when its actually somewhere around 30% of wows subs they say "WHAT THE FUCK WENT WRONG BIOWARE? OK OK LESS MONIES TO YOU."

And yet Rift manages to put out content with less subs than either swtor or wow go figure.

Most everyone I know playing it is waiting for the patch to see if that changes things. But right now, there is just too much not good to make it worth quitting WoW for. (Imo) Once the legacy system, the changeable UI and the Target of Target get put into the game, gonna give it more of a try.

I actually wish they'd waited until patch 1.2 to actually put out the game, some of the stuff they're adding seems to be a no-brainer.

I last properly saw news of this highly anticipated game when it was released. How is it going so far, and how are you finding the end game? Is it indeed an MMO which has a potential to compete with World of Warcraft, or not? :-)

And my last question, is the future for the game promising?

My account is frozen atm so cant really tell you how it is in terms of pop, but from what i ear from friends with the account still active it's not looking good.

I found endgame to be fun, well made FPs and Raids with a cool environment a nice mechanics, last boss of VoE comes to mind. As a eager gamer i consumed it too fast tough, i got geared to fast and the content doesnt really presents that much of a challenge, wich i think its normal for a first tier of raiding.

Lastly, regarding potential, it has potential to blow WoW out of the water, the possibilitys are infinite. But when i think that behind SW is the same kind of greedy company as behind WoW i fear for its future.

Nontheless, wayting for patch 1.2 to play a bit more and see what they managed to do with it.

I last properly saw news of this highly anticipated game when it was released. How is it going so far, and how are you finding the end game? Is it indeed an MMO which has a potential to compete with World of Warcraft, or not? :-)

And my last question, is the future for the game promising?

- The game is a ton of fun and there are features you wont find in other games. If you ever wanted a MMO made from the KoToR universe then it delivers
- End game is/was disappointing. I found that normal mode was easier than it should be, but at the same time the devs promised that fresh 50s would be raid ready and its true. But to put things into perspective, we clear both raids on HM in a single 3-4 hr sitting. Normal mode takes less than 3 hours. But the way loot works in normal mode is interesting to say the least and the system would work very well for PUGs.
- Yes I think this game can compete with WoW if we must look at things this way.

1.2 is being dubbed the "Jesus" or "Resurrection" patch as the community is starting to drop off. Some people are waiting for 1.2 because of the overhaul others are waiting as 1.2 will bring the game in line with their "Launch" vision that they unfortunately could not complete in time for a 2011 launch which was pushed by EA. So at this point the games longevity is up in the air until a month or so after 1.2.

My play time is getting less and less and one of the main reasons is I am waiting for the Legacy changes in 1.2 before I start working on alts which is a bigger part of this game than most people realize.

i joined a server that was PRE RELEASE like the 3rd server and its dead... so i gave up my subscription cxause i have 2 level 50 and in dont like questing and the battlegrounds are dead dont open at night..

so im waiting for a server merge / trans then il probably go check it out again ^^

The one thing I can say is that bioware is pretty concerned about making the game better and better. The leveling is fantastic and the end game was fun but my guild has been clearing it for a while now.

Game has plenty of humour if you actually pay attention the dialogue that goes on between companions or npcs. You may not find it particularly all the funny but to say it doesn't exist is misleading. Your opinions are pvp follow the same suit.

Care to share an example? I laughed all of two times when I was playing SWTOR. The first time was SI storyline where one of the early quests had me torturing a guy. The second time was because I had been listening to TB's podcast of him trying the game out and talking about how great it was, mentioning all these things about it, and I just didn't agree with anything he was saying.

I can tell you what makes me laugh about Wow, and why I can stomach questing.

example: @ level 20 in Hillsbrad Foothills, there is a new Cata quest chain, and the first quest in the chain is called Welcome to the Machine. Pink Floyd reference, and I like Pink Floyd. The quest is a sort of parody of the song lyrics, and it's great.

After that, you get a quest where YOU become the quest giver, and as you sit there, 3 different NPCs that are a mock up of the most stereotypical Wow players out there, saunter up and get quests from you. One of the rewards from that quest is called a 'portable lap desk' which is actuall just a shield.

Then as you progress that chain along, you come to a quest where you are tasked with 'saving' a bunch of people who have been planted in the ground. You are given options to either pull them out of the ground, saving them, or smash their heads in with a shovel, saving them. As a reward from that quest, you are given a shovel as a MH weapon.

There are numerous other humorous things in just that zone, including Plants vs Zombies mini game.

And the pvp in SWTOR is far from balanced with respect to the different roles, let alone between classes. Nevermind the design of the maps and the laggy combat.

"How is it doing so far?"
In my opinion, it seems to be doing quite well. Servers aren't really loaded or anything but I never get the feeling of questing all alone or standing in ghosttowns. As far as I can see there is a healthy amount of players in the game, but then my server is one of these with medium population (there are some medium, a handful high and many with standard (or low?)). But I suppose that some server merging wouldn't hurt at all for the less populous players.

Thank you so much. :-) It is so interesting to see what different players think.

"There is no end to education. It is not that you read a book, pass an examination, and finish with education. The whole of life, from the moment you are born to the moment you die, is a process of learning." by Jiddu Krishnamurti, Philosopher and Educator

My overall view is that its not a bad game, it just gets stale pretty quickly. I'll also say that I think a major flaw is in how the game is set up. I would say for the vast majority of players that they enjoy the leveling experience, at least the first time through, ( after that its really a matter of how much you can tolerate doing the exact same quests) but then you hit 50 and the things you liked about the leveling experience just stop. You suddenly realize the game flips a switch and you are back to dailies, 5 mans, Raids and grinding out Warzones if thats your thing. The new legacy stuff doesn't change that, the new UI doesn't change that, in fact pretty much nothing in 1.2 will change that.

I'm still subbed and trying to hang in there at least until they get a LFD tool going, but it is becoming increasingly harder to do. The game is solid, but not really any different than anything else out on the market. Can it compete with WoW? Well that depends on how you define compete. Can it have 2 million players? Yeah. Will it ever have 10 million? I don't think any MMO will ever have that many again.

Really its longevity is going to come down to how many things they can add that actually seperate it from WoW. Thins like the legacy system are a good sign, but they need more of them and they need a way to change up how end game works long term.

Here are my biggest complaints with the game so far, in order of decreasing annoyance:

1: You spend the entire game with an immersive story that includes heavy involvement of your companions. Then, when you hit 50, your companions cease to be even a remote part of your existence in the game. You can't take them to Ilum, you can't use them in Ops, Flashpoints, or 4 Person Groups for Dailies. They become utterly useless. Major, major, major disappointment, I can't believe the lack of foresight in this one.

2: Atrocious server populations. Since launch, primetime fleet population caps at about 45, as low as 10. I can flat out name my opponents and teammates in every PVP match. There is currently only one active 8 man Ops guild on Republic side, and 3 on Imp side. No 16's on the server.

3. Ilum. The objectives really aren't meaningful. People tried using it a lot early on, and it looked promising, but the game engine simply can't handle anything over 24 people combat in a small area. Their only fix for this is "Removing rendering of character models in dense areas." A massive letdown.

4. Glitchy Huttball. It is absurdly easy to exploit this warzone via lag switches, and will never be able to be fixed because of it.

5. Crafting System. This one is less disappointing because BW flat out announced that an economy and deep crafting system were not goals in any way. In any event, crafting is next to useless except for a couple rare instances.

6. No concern for Canon concepts. This game simply doesn't feel like Star Wars to me. Yes, it has lightsabers, but that's about it. This game doesn't particularly feel related to the Kotor franchise either, except for passing references to Revan and Malak, the former getting punked by 4 people in a flashpoint. (Seriously? Really? You let a guy live 300 years, arguably the most powerful Jedi in history, only to have him get bitch-slapped by 4 punk ass Empire? That's about as believable as Dak taking on the entire Imperial Fleet. Get ready to suck some Dak!)

7. I'm a Jedi (Guardian). Please stop sending me out on quests to completely butcher populations. Discretion is the better part of Valor. I might as well have been Dark Side.

Right now my sub is expiring. Waiting for D3, GWII. In the meantime, Skyward Sword and Skyrim are on my plate. Very promising game that failed to deliver. Formulaic to the end, little innovation except for the leveling experience and a PVP concept that ultimately failed due to rampant cheating that can't be moderated.

This guy pretty much summed it up. I couldn't care less about 6 and 7, as I play the Punisher style of good guy rather then the batman version, but the other issues are dead on. Every week, less people show up on your friends list, and every week you see less people on fleet. I have a valor 76 Guardian, and a valor 58 Jugg, and then alts from 32-40. I stuck it out, I liked a lot of what the game had to offer, but it came out too early. No rated pvp kills it for me, and guess what, even when it comes out in 1.2, my server honestly doesn't have 7 other people I want to group with, maybe 4-5 at max.

In addition to 1.2 game needs: 1) Server transfers and server consolidation... you launched with too many servers. Accept it and fix it. 2) Faster leveling. The story is cool the first time.... then its boring. 3) A reason to world pvp... make a high level area with a few mobs that drop something everyone wants, like pvp/pve tokens. Free for all area, you can attack anyone not in your grp, even if its same faction.

Care to share an example? I laughed all of two times when I was playing SWTOR. The first time was SI storyline where one of the early quests had me torturing a guy. The second time was because I had been listening to TB's podcast of him trying the game out and talking about how great it was, mentioning all these things about it, and I just didn't agree with anything he was saying.

I can tell you what makes me laugh about Wow, and why I can stomach questing.

example: @ level 20 in Hillsbrad Foothills, there is a new Cata quest chain, and the first quest in the chain is called Welcome to the Machine. Pink Floyd reference, and I like Pink Floyd. The quest is a sort of parody of the song lyrics, and it's great.

After that, you get a quest where YOU become the quest giver, and as you sit there, 3 different NPCs that are a mock up of the most stereotypical Wow players out there, saunter up and get quests from you. One of the rewards from that quest is called a 'portable lap desk' which is actuall just a shield.

Then as you progress that chain along, you come to a quest where you are tasked with 'saving' a bunch of people who have been planted in the ground. You are given options to either pull them out of the ground, saving them, or smash their heads in with a shovel, saving them. As a reward from that quest, you are given a shovel as a MH weapon.

There are numerous other humorous things in just that zone, including Plants vs Zombies mini game.

And the pvp in SWTOR is far from balanced with respect to the different roles, let alone between classes. Nevermind the design of the maps and the laggy combat.

My only problem with WoW's " humor" is that with Cata they kind of went overboard with it. Its cool to bump into that funny quest or reference, but when an entire zone is built around that reference I find myself rolling my eyes a bit. The new Redridge would be a perfect example. and Uldum kinda edges close to that too. I always liked how they tried to sneak pop culture references in ( Kessel Run as example) but they didn't beat you over the head with it. Cata imo they just went a bit overboard with it.

Part of the reason you don't see it in SW, is because well, how much of it do you see in the series? I mean there are some rather heady humurous moments, but nothing generally where they say " you will laugh at this". I personally think having all of those pop culture references like you see in WoW would make the Universe of SW not feel like SW.

Really though the humour thing comes down to personal preference. There are a lot of people that play WoW who really don't much care for all the pop culture and 12 year old humour that exists in it. Personally think it was a smart move not copying WoW on this one as it helps to seperate the two games a bit.

Care to share an example? I laughed all of two times when I was playing SWTOR. The first time was SI storyline where one of the early quests had me torturing a guy. The second time was because I had been listening to TB's podcast of him trying the game out and talking about how great it was, mentioning all these things about it, and I just didn't agree with anything he was saying.

I can tell you what makes me laugh about Wow, and why I can stomach questing.

example: @ level 20 in Hillsbrad Foothills, there is a new Cata quest chain, and the first quest in the chain is called Welcome to the Machine. Pink Floyd reference, and I like Pink Floyd. The quest is a sort of parody of the song lyrics, and it's great.

After that, you get a quest where YOU become the quest giver, and as you sit there, 3 different NPCs that are a mock up of the most stereotypical Wow players out there, saunter up and get quests from you. One of the rewards from that quest is called a 'portable lap desk' which is actuall just a shield.

Then as you progress that chain along, you come to a quest where you are tasked with 'saving' a bunch of people who have been planted in the ground. You are given options to either pull them out of the ground, saving them, or smash their heads in with a shovel, saving them. As a reward from that quest, you are given a shovel as a MH weapon.

There are numerous other humorous things in just that zone, including Plants vs Zombies mini game.

And the pvp in SWTOR is far from balanced with respect to the different roles, let alone between classes. Nevermind the design of the maps and the laggy combat.

The game is ridiculously balanced for a launchtitle. Even if you disagree what evidence can you provide to back up our assertions? It's not like the game features a combat log and the overall win/lost ratio as reported by the developers was literally within a few percentage points. Again you have ZERO evidence to back up your assertions, just more conjecture.

As for humor of recent note on my Sith Inquisitor as I was walking into the cantina Khem Val managed to spark up a chuckle and say in his charecteristically dour way "I have a great sabacc face. That was a joke. I do not like sabac"

or

Walking into the cantina on nal hutta with the bodies of several dead mercs on the ground and one BH standing above them
"How was I supposed to know they were throwing a surprise party?"
I found the more spontaneous random bits of humor laced throughout the game vastly more witty, droll and down right funny than "plants vs zombies".