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“The State of Eritrea presents its initial and combined reports that encompass eight periodic reports overdue since its accession to the Charter.” So begins the first sentence of a 100-page report provided by the State of Eritrea to the African Commission on Human and People’s Rights (ACHPR). “Overdue” may be the one word that describes Eritrea. Setting time-limit on National Service and demobilization is overdue; the constitution is overdue; elections are overdue; freeing prisoners is overdue; ending undeclared state-of-emergency is overdue; and rule-of-law is overdue. So, of course, the report that the Government of Eritrea owed the African Charter is overdue. All because of (wait for it!) the Big Overdue: demarcation of the Eritrea-Ethiopia border and ending the state of quasi-war.

1. Article 62 of the African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights (ACHPR) states that “Each State Party shall undertake to submit every two years, from the date the present Charter comes into force, a report on the legislative or other measures taken, with a view to giving effect to the rights and freedoms recognised and guaranteed by the present Charter.” Eritrea, which ratified the ACHPR in 1999 without reservations, just submitted its 1st periodic report, 17 years after its due date. Its attitude towards an agreement it has ratified willingly—gross negligence, indifference, defiance, impunity—is the same attitude it has displayed to the civil liberties of the Eritrean people since it came to power in 1991.

2. The Government of Eritrea is not new to ACHPR: it was a defendant in a complaint filed by an Eritrean citizen (Mussie Ephrem) and a colleague (Dr. Liesbeth Zegveld) from the Netherlands (250/02.) The complaint alleged that the State of Eritrea is in violation of Article 2 (enjoyment of rights and freedoms), 6 (liberty and security), 7(1) (right to trial and self-defense) and 9(2) (right to expression.)

3. Since then, Eritrea’s human rights record has only worsened warranting an appointment of Special Rapporteur on Human Rights by the UN’s Human Rights Council as well as an appointment of Commission of Inquiry which determined, after interviewing hundreds of exiled Eritreans, that their Government has committed offenses that amount to crimes against humanity. Whereas, in 2003, it was found in violation of Articles 2, 6, 7(1) and9(2)—because the compliant was on behalf on 11 individuals—now it has expanded its violations to include Article 3 (equality of individuals before the law), Article 4 (respect for life and refraining from arbitrary deprivation); Article 5 (torture, degrading punishment); Article 8 (Free practice of religion); Article 10 (free association), Article 11 (freedom of assembly); Article 12.1 (freedom of movement); Article 12.2 (right to leave or return); Article 13 (right to freely participate in government); Article 14 (right to property); and Article 15 (right to work under equitable and satisfactory conditions.)

4. With its 1st Periodic Report which was submitted on 22 February, 2018 the Government of Eritrea is offering more of the same rationale for the violations that the ACHPR found inadequate and unpersuasive when it ruled against it in 2003.

5. In the following pages, the author will try to demonstrate that the Government of the State of Eritrea is systematically violating several of the articles enshrined in the ACHPR. I will reference the reply it presented to the African Commission, which is no more than its practice of collaterizing the people of Eritrea until it receives satisfaction for wholly unrelated claims it has on the United Nations.

6. Article 2: Every individual shall be entitled to the enjoyment of the rights and freedoms recognised and guaranteed in the present Charter without distinction of any kind such as race, ethnic group, colour, sex, language, religion, political or any other opinion, national and social origin, fortune, birth or any status.

7. While there are thousands of Eritreans who make compelling cases that they have been discriminated against solely based on their national/social origin and the ethnic group they belong to—the Eritrean Kunama and the Eritrean Afar social groups in particular—this section will focus on individuals who have been targeted on the basis of their political and religious affiliation.

8. Here, it is instructive to note what the Government of Eritrea is stating in its first National Report as it relates to its treatment of Eritreans on the basis of their religious affiliation:

9. There is no discrimination, exclusion, restriction or preference made on the basis of ethnicity, religion, social status, language, opinion, gender and race (Para w2). Eritrea is a secular state and freedom of religion is protected by law….[T]he Government has shouldered the obligations to ensure that this centuries-old religious tolerance and harmony is not perturbed by externally-induced new trends of Islamic or Christian fundamentalism that corrode the social fabric. (Para 65). In general, religious bodies have their respective hierarchies, conduct their own elections for their respective hierarchies – the Synod, the Dar-al-Iftae, and other decision making organs without any intervention from any side, including from the Government. (Para 66.)

10. After congratulating itself for its role in nurturing Eritrea’s religious tolerance and harmony, it explains how and why it effectively banned “new faiths” (unmentioned) and why it took “appropriate measures” against Jehovah’s Witnesses.

12. In other words, the Government of Eritrea’s claims are self-contradictory: on the one hand, it says that there “…is no discrimination, exclusion, restriction or preference made on the basis of…religion”; on the other hand, it says that some religions are not permitted to be practiced in the country. While it has not mentioned the “new faiths”, it has described its decision to ban them due to their refusal to comply with registration requirements and external funding sources. The “new faiths” are Evangelical, Pentecostal, Charismatic protestant churches and the actual reason for their ban is because the church elders were protecting the identity of their members whom the government arbitrarily labeled as enemies of the State. Many of the church elders have been arrested since 2002 and the State of Eritrea refuses to account for them.

13. The Government of Eritrea’s decision to revoke the citizenship of Eritrean members of Jehovah’s Witnesses dates back to 1995. It is important to state this because the State has explained every violation of Eritreans’ civil liberties within the context of the “external existential threat” posed by Ethiopia and there was no such threat, real or imagined, in 1995. In accordance with their religious teaching, the Jehovah’s Witnesses refused to enlist in the military; consequently, the government dismissed them from government jobs, nationalized their businesses and made them stateless. To this date, 23 years later, they have no recourse and hundreds of their members remain in jail.

15. Article 3: Every individual shall be equal before the law. Every individual shall be entitled to equal protection of the law

16. To demonstrate its compliance with this article, the Government of Eritrea claims that “Equality before the law is guaranteed and the process and administration is based on an independent judiciary comprising of hierarchical courts and Public Prosecution institution headed by an Attorney General.” – Paragraph 39

17. The first question here is “what law”? Most countries have a constitution which is ratified, and when a government passes a law, a citizen may challenge its constitutionality. But Eritrea, almost 27 years after independence, has no constitution. It is unclear whether the civil and penal codes the government published a few years ago are just published or in full effect (published in the Gazette of Eritrean laws) because the government frequently refers to proclamations that pre-date the publication of the codes.

18. Anyone with faint knowledge of the government knows that the hierarchy of the courts is irrelevant since they have no independence as the president’s office sits atop of the hierarchy and issues edicts arbitrarily. Eritrea is a country of the favored (generals, colonels and the connected political functionaries) and the rest (the conscripts, the youth, the exiled, the civilians or “gebar”.) And, “the rest” have no mechanism to ask why they are in prison, much less to challenge the authority of those who arrested them or made them to disappear.

19. Article 4: Human beings are inviolable. Every human being shall be entitled to respect for his life and the integrity of his person. No one may be arbitrarily deprived of this right.

20. The government makes no mention of the sanctity of life and the integrity of human beings. To the extent “life” is mentioned, it is always in the context of quality of life (social services) but not in the sanctity of recognizing its inviolability. There is no process for the State to deprive life as many citizens are unaccounted for and, often, families have been told to bury a citizen who died in the State’s prisons.

21. As the UN Human Right Council’s Commission of Inquiry documented in its initial report, the government has no mechanism to regulate the use of deadly force. These extrajudicial killings began in 1991 in Adiquala (execution of “collaborators”) and they haven’t stopped since: targeting anyone vaguely accused of endangering national security whether that is summary execution of 150 Muslims from Keren, Agordat, Senafe, Asmara in 1994; Kunama “collaborators” in 2000; and youth attempting to “illegally” cross borders throughout 2000s.

22. Article 5: Every individual shall have the right to the respect of the dignity inherent in a human being and to the recognition of his legal status. All forms of exploitation and degradation of man, particularly slavery, slave trade, torture, cruel, inhuman or degrading punishment and treatment shall be prohibited.

23. In paragraph 49, the Government of Eritrea says, “Torture of any kind is not condoned by Eritrea’s domestic laws and is punishable by law. Furthermore, the norm of a society that is founded on extended family and strong communal ties does not allow such reprehensible practices.”

24. Whenever the government of Eritrea is asked whether it is obeying its own laws, it cites its laws. It is as if it doesn’t know that it is being accused of breaking its own laws or international treaties it has signed. Leaving aside whether indefinite military conscription qualifies as slavery in its modern definition, there has been substantive testimony presented by Eritreans who have been subjected to cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment that meets the definition of torture.

25. For over a decade now, every country report on Eritrea conducted by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch etc has documented it. The world learned of the form of punishment the State inflicts on the citizens including cuffing and beating with chains and pipes; tying legs behind back and suspending citizens on a tree (“helicopter”) for days; hands behind back until elbows tied together and laying face down (Otto); spreading out hands and tying them to branches (“Jesus Christ”); tying by elbows to tree with toes barely touching ground (“Almaz”), Ferro, Gomma, etc. Victims gave descriptions that became sketch art, which has come to define Eritrea. In 2015, it was more comprehensively recorded for posterity by UN’s Human Rights Council based on the testimony of 300 Eritreans:

The recurrence, coherence, and similarities of the many torture incidents… is a clear indication of the existence of a deliberate policy to inflict torture in a routine manner in the context of investigations and interrogations as well as during national service

26. When the Government of Eritrea denies it commits torture routinely, one is left with the impression that it doesn’t know the legal definition of torture. Per the UN Convention Against Torture:

For the purpose of this Convention, the term “torture” means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflictedon a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.

27. Article 6: Every individual shall have the right to liberty and to the security of his person. No one may be deprived of his freedom except for reasons and conditions previously laid down by law. In particular, no one may be arbitrarily arrested or detained

28. The Government of Eritrea responds: “There are also ample provisions in the Transitional Penal Code (for instance provisions that punish all forms of physical injury [Articles 538, 539, 544 etc.]) that protect the person and liberty of any person…” (Paragraph 308) “The Government did not arbitrarily arrest the 11 persons. The National Assembly at its 14th Session, held from 29 January to 2nd February 2002, discussed a report concerning the nature of the criminal acts committed by these people. The National Assembly deplored the grave acts perpetrated by the detainees and mandated the Government to handle the matter appropriately.” (Paragraph 294)

29. Of note, the word “freedom” rarely appears in the document except with the accompaniment of “fighter” (freedom fighter), just like “integrity” doesn’t appear without “territorial” (as in territorial integrity.) Eritrea: A Land of Freedom Fighters Fighting For Territorial Integrity.

30. As for the case of the arbitrary arrest of the G-15 (“11 persons”), the Government of Eritrea must have forgotten that in response to the complaint filed by Mussie Ephrem, it had lost the case: the African Commission ruled that the State of Eritrea is indeed in violation of all the articles cited, demanded the release of the prisoners on whose behalf the complaint was filed and further recommended, “the State of Eritrea compensates the above-mentioned persons.” One hopes that the African Commission, unlike the State of Eritrea, has institutions and institutional memory.

31. Article 7: Every individual shall have the right to have his cause heard. This comprises: The right to an appeal to competent national organs against acts of violating his fundamental rights as recognized and guaranteed by conventions, laws, regulations and customs in force; The right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty by a competent court or tribunal; The right to defence, including the right to be defended by counsel of his choice; The right to be tried within a reasonable time by an impartial court or tribunal.

32. According to its report, the Government of Eritrea has “enacted and implemented 178 proclamations and 125 legal notices (72 proclamations and 82 legal notices of these enacted during the reporting period). These served as other sources of law and also reflected the relevant internationally accepted norms. The commitment to strengthen the State through viable governance is thus apparent. This is in fact reflected in the prevailing social cohesion and harmony, peace and stability, dignified life, enjoyment of rights and the responsible participation of citizens.” (Para 16.) The government provides defendants their own counsel, it provides interpreters including sign language for the hearing-impaired.

33. This may indeed be the case for crimes committed by citizens against their compatriots (theft, manslaughter, murder, embezzlement, etc.) The problem is when the crime is alleged to be against the State.

34. This was partly addressed in the complaint brought forth by Mussie et al, a case where the African Commission held the view that “the lawfulness and necessity of holding someone in custody must be determined by a court or other appropriate judicial authority. The decision to keep a person in detention should be open to review periodically so that the grounds justifying the detention can be assessed. In any event, detention should not continue beyond the period for which the State can provide appropriate justification. Therefore, persons suspected of committing any crime must be promptly charged with legitimate criminal offences and the State should initiate legal proceedings that should comply with fair trial standards as stipulated by the African Commission in its Resolution on the Right to Recourse and Fair Trial and elaborated upon in its Guidelines on the Right to Fair Trial and Legal Assistance in Africa.” Nothing has changed since 2003, except the magnitude of the crimes.

35. Article 8:Freedom of conscience, the profession and free practice of religion shall be guaranteed. No one may, subject to law and order, be submitted to measures restricting the exercise of these freedoms.

36. We have already covered this in Article 2 above. The State of Eritrea is in violation of this article of the African Charter as well.

37. Article 9: Every individual shall have the right to receive information. Every individual shall have the right to express and disseminate his opinions within the law.

38. The State replies: “The fundamental principle in the National Charter, Eritrea’s Constitution of 1997 [sic] and the national codes and proclamations is that citizens have the right for lawful expression and opinion without interference. Citizens are both participants and beneficiaries of information and ideas and the ground is leveled without discrimination. This, however, demands responsibility from every citizen and is related to the collective interest of the nation and the society. Hence, it is bound by Eritrean Law and demands protection of national security, public order and the basic values of the nation as well as respect to others. In this regard, public media has been strengthened and reflects the truth and reality of national development.”

39. The government further goes on to state that Eritreans enjoy unrestricted access to satellite TV and unrestricted, albeit slow, access to the Internet, specially social media.

40. The problem with the answer is that it is either incomplete or false. What, for example, is the nation’s budget? What is its census? Both are Information 101 for a citizen but they have been a closely-held secret for decades. One of them–census–just became unclassified by the State–and only because it serves the interest of the government.

41. The first time a census of Eritrea was taken was in 1947. That’s when the Four Power Commission visited Eritrea and told us the population was 850,000. Throughout the armed struggle period, the Front’s literature said Eritrea’s population was 2.5 million. In 1993, when Eritrea held its referendum, 1,200,997 were registered worldwide to vote, of whom 861,074 were living inside Eritrea. If (given the overwhelming enthusiasm) one makes the assumption that only 5% of those who were eligible to register to vote didn’t register (eligible= at least 18 year old Eritrean) , then we can estimate the over-18 population of Eritreans living in Eritrea was 906,394. If one uses UNICEF ratio of under-18 to over-18 for the period (1:1), then we could say Eritrea’s total population in 1993 (resident Eritreans) was double that of 906,394, ie 1,812,787.

42. In 1997, the Government of Eritrea conducted a survey (not a census) of Eritrea and reported that the population is estimated to be between 2.5 million and 3.5 million. Thus, one can assume that every estimate which was given to us since then by the New York Times in 1996 that it was more than 3 million (here) or the CIA World Factbook telling us the July 2017 population estimate is 5.9 million (here) appears to be a SWAG. A scientific wild ass guess.

43. Now we learn “The Government’s estimate of the resident population is 3.65 million (2015).” But only by way of disputing the World Bank’s estimate of the population of Eritreans in Eritrea (5.1 million) which would deflate Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per capita. To make this point, they provide the only link in the entire report. Ok. So, if the population of Eritreans in Eritrea is 3.65 million and, a few years ago, in response to the UN’s Commission of Inquiry, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MoFA) told us that Eritreans who live outside the country are “one million strong“, what does that say about a country which has exiled and/or not made to feel welcome over 27% of its population?

44. Article 10:Every individual shall have the right to free association provided that he abides by the law. Subject to the obligation of solidarity provided for in Article 29, no one may be compelled to join an association.

45. Article 11: Every individual shall have the right to assemble freely with others. The exercise of this right shall be subject only to necessary restrictions provided for by law, in particular those enacted in the interest of national security, the safety, health, ethics and rights and freedoms of others

46. The Government says: “Freedom of association and assembly is also respected by law. The Legal Notice No 5 of 1992 on “Registration of non-government national organizations and associations” also set the right conditions for their establishment and operation. During the reporting period more
than 33 national organizations are operational. Eritrea’s labor Proclamation also upholds
workers’ rights and there are about 190 trade unions functioning at present.”

47. Here, the government can credibly argue it is in compliance with the African Charter because the African Charter is weak when it comes to freedom of association and assembly since it defers to the State to define what is lawful and what is not. Suffice to say that every association in Eritrea–every trade union, every youth organization, every women’s organization, every association for the visually impaired, hearing impaired–is controlled by the ruling party and, thus, the government and, therefore, does not fit the definition of “civil society.” As for freedom to assemble freely with others, because the African Charter qualifies it “subject only to necessary restrictions provided by law”, the government can define that law in times of “external existential crisis” and severely restrict it to the point that the freedom is non-existent.

48. Article 12: Every individual shall have the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of a State provided he abides by the law. Every individual shall have the right to leave any country including his own, and to return to his country. This right may only be subject to restrictions, provided for by law for the protection of national security, law and order, public health or morality. Every individual shall have the right, when persecuted, to seek and obtain asylum in other countries in accordance with the law of those countries and international conventions.

49. At a time when over 27% of Eritrea’s population lives in exile, at a time when hundreds of thousands of Eritreans live in refugee camps of Sudan and Ethiopia, at a time when tens of thousands of Eritreans live uncertain lives in Israel, at a time it is acknowledging Eritrea’s resident population is only 3.65 million, the Government of Eritrea says, “…irrespective of the manipulated statistics sensationally forecasted to tarnish the image of Eritrea, the real number of illegal Eritrean migrants is at its lowest. This is a result of the promising Eritrea‟s progress, continuous advocacy, strong law enforcement and the exposure of the illusions tangled to migrant “heavenly western life” expectations propagated in the failed campaign. Eritrea‟s engagement with some western countries to rectify their immigration policies on Eritreans has also played a part.

50. According to the government, the Eritrean youth continue to serve in indefinite National Service because of “external existential threat”, and those who have left the country did so because of conspiracies by the United States and other pull factors designed to tarnish the image of Eritrea. It is everybody else’s fault but its own.

51. Article 13: Every citizen shall have the right to participate freely in the government of his country, either directly or through freely chosen representatives in accordance with the provisions of the law. Every citizen shall have the right of equal access to the public service of the country. Every individual shall have the right of access to public property and services in strict equality of all persons before the law.

52. You may be thinking that a government and party whose chief says that those who wish to create a political environment outside the People’s Front can do so in the moon or other planets has categorically rejected their right to “participate freely in the government of his country”? You may be thinking that those who call for constitutionalism and elections being called enemies of the State and foreign agents are being denied their right of “equal access to the public service of the country”? You may be right. You are right. But let’s see what the Government of Eritrea has to say about it: “The basic values of liberation, freedom and democracy continue to be the core for the nation building process… (para 38) and “Since its inception, the Sawa Education and Training center has graduated over 500,000 national service members and played a dynamic role in national defense, national development and the promotion of the basic values of liberation, freedom and democracy.” Freedom and democracy just got redefined to mean constricted movement and taking orders.

53. But wait, there is more:

54. Furthermore, the right to elect and be elected in the assemblies at all levels is respected and protected on the basis of Proclamation 86/1996. Accordingly, the citizens living in each of the six administrative regions are represented by members of elected assemblies. Through regular yearly meetings, the elected members at each level assess the situation and issue guidelines to the local and regional administrations. They also represent their constituency in national policy and development issues and serve as a means through which the demands and needs of the people are communicated to higher authorities. The role of the people in state building through elected representatives has evolved. However, further strengthening of the institutional capacity and organizational basis of the
assemblies still remains a major task. Furthermore, and as has been mentioned earlier, existential external threats have adversely affected the pace of the political process.

Conclusion

55. ACHPR, the African version of the bill of rights, was the last one to arrive–-long after European and South American–-and the drafters explained that when they were writing it that they would neither copy the existing European structure, nor “be original for the sake of originality.” But they were. Unlike the European, Asian and South American instruments, this one has individual and group rights (human and Peoples to recognize Africa’s collectivism and unique colonial history) and, also unlike the European and American ones, this one imposes a DUTY on individuals and groups. Duty to family, the nation, to pay taxes and to promote African Unity. Unusual for a document that is supposed to highlight rights. A lot of the rights have many qualifiers– “provided that he abides by law”, “except for reasons and conditions previously laid down by law”, “subject to law and order”, “within law”– that any old dictator can render null and void. Still, STILL, even by those low standards the PFDJ is failing. But because the African Union never got around to creating and funding its own African Court, it has no way to enforce its decisions.

56. So, in the end, all we have learned from this 100-page document is that Eritrea’s resident population is 3.65 million. We learned this indirectly (reply to ACHPR), and for entirely self-serving reasons the Government has (we are good stewards of the economy.) Just as we learned three years ago that Eritrea’s Diaspora population was one million: indirectly (reply to CoI) and for self-serving reasons (we are not blackmailing ALL of them.) But here’s something sad: not counting the 250,000 IDPS, in 1992, on the eve of referendum, the IOM estimated the population of Eritreans in the Diaspora was as follows:

57. Since there has been no attempt to invite Eritreans in Sudan to their country (Yemane Gebreab disingenuously said this is because “Sudan is their second home”), since Eritreans in Saudi Arabia are being forced to “self-deport” because of Saudi Arabia’s brutal immigration policies (with many re-migrating to Egypt, Turkey, Sudan but few to Eritrea), the most dramatic change since 1992 is likely to be a significant increase in Eritrean population in Europe and North America. So, Eritrea under PFDJ, 26 years later, has only one core competence: disappearing and exiling its people. And arresting underage citizens. What Eritreans are facing is, to borrow a phrase, “internal existential threat.”

About Salyounis

Saleh Younis (SAAY) has been writing about Eritrea since 1994 when he published "Eritrean Exponent", a quarterly print journal. His writing has been published in several media outlets including Dehai, Eritrean Studies Review, Visafric, Asmarino and, of course, Awate where his column has appeared since the launch of the website in 2000.
Focusing on political, economic, educational policies, he approaches his writing from the perspective of the individual citizens' civil liberties and how collectivist governments and overbearing organizations trample all over it in pursuit of their interests.
SAAY is the president and CEO of a college with a focus in sound arts and video games and his writing often veers to music critique. He has an MBA from Golden Gate University and a BA from St Mary's College.

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Dear Awatistas,
From now on, when the comments are far removed and become too many and uninteresting, we will stop the comment thread. Please move on to other threads

FishMilk

Hi Alex. Thanks for the interesting comment which makes a lot of sense.

FishMilk

Dear all. The Guardian is reporting that 200 Ethiopians are fleeing the country everyday for Yemen via Djibouti per month. Add in the large numbers of Ethiopians going Nairobi and Khartoum way, and you likely have more than 10,000 leaving per month. Why is nobody talking about this, nor the fact that Ethiopia is not conducting a census as its constitution requires, which will no doubt later be used as a reason by the EPRDF to delay Ethiopia’s 2020 election.

Berhe Y

Hi FishMilk,

You forgot to add, that these Ethiopians are claiming as Eritreans and hugely skewing the number of Eritrean refugees and taking advantage of the “automatic acceptance” that Eritrea refugees enjoy.

I think I have brilliant idea. Because since everything the government of PFDJ does revolves around “weyane / Ethiopia” how about, Eritrea starts voluntarily giving exit visas and demobilize the national services and allows them to leave and return FREE, as in Free like a bird. The then European countries will know this and they will deport those “Ethiopian refugees” back to Eritrea.

How about that? what do you think…

Berhe

FishMilk

Hi Berne Y. You are simply wrong as IOM is saying that those going to Yemen via Djibouti are almost entirely Oromos.

Berhe Y

Hi FM,

Off all places, Yemen today sound really sketchy….Yemen today, with civil war and all..it’s hard to be believe. Unless they are using Yemen as a gateway to the other countries in the middle east.

So I don’t know the big deal really…if government allows free movement, this means free movement.

Honestly I don’t know your point.

Berhe

halafi mengedi

Berhe,

There is no point. It is all ‘how aboutism’.

hm

Mez

Dear Fishkill,

” ….almost entirely Oromos…”

It makes sense, remember the ethic clash in Somali state and around moyale….

Thanks

FishMilk

Thanks @george. I pretty much knew that the restaurants were information gathering points. While I certainly want change within the Eritrean Government, I am not in favor of its complete overthrow, for I fear that this would be disastrous.

FishMilk

Dear all. In most major European and African cities where their are Eritrean restaurants (i.e. Rome and Nairobi), there is at least one establishment where Eritrean Government and hardline PFDJ supporters frequent. Rumor has it that these places are financially fronted by the Eritrean Government. Does anyone have any info in this regard?

FishMilk

Hi all. If there are known Eritrean Government parastatal businesses abroad (i.e. restaurants and transport companies), then why are opposition efforts not targeting them?

blink

Dear FM
What’s wrong with you?

Berhe Y

Hi FM,

Why go after small fish when there is big fish to fry. The are going after the embassy / consulate, so far Canada and Holland, and Sweden I think banned the PFDJ from collecting 2% tax.

They are going after the PFDJ mafia bosses, CoI and now the African human rights, next it will be forwarded to the ICC.

Why spend valuable resources in such small operation, at best the size and income of enda shahi.

Berhe

@geroge

Dear Berhe
Brilliant! Brilliant I have a better plan. And, this information that I am about to give you is a one time exclusive only reserved to exclusive individuals, such as yours, who have shown exceptional dedication and loyalty to the bigger and better Mafioso and puppet regeim WOYANE Pay attention now, because if you don’t act now, you might miss your opportunity to cash in. OK, you ready/ Wrong Bank, I mean World Bank just approved 600 million dinero to Ethiopia, your beloved country. So, hurry up, get a ticket and get your share of the money. Oh I forgot to tell you make sure you fly Ethiopian air hopefully one way ticket.
You welcome.

Berhe Y

Hi George,

TerTaro Akat. Do you know the saying. Tsemam Hade Derfu.

Why do you have to mention Weyane in this discussion? You PFDJite can’t live without Weyane. Hey, they are just few Km away from you, why don’t you go face them, if you are a man.

Speaking of 600 million dollars, how about IA hidden account in Switzerland that was exposed by the insider leak which shows that he has 695 dollars in hidden account.

Adia gedifas HatnoAe Timafiq.

Deal with your own probk first before dealing with others. As Russle Peters would say ‘Be a Man’.

Berhe

FishMilk

Berle Y. You say deal with our own problems first? Ethiopia is at the front of the problem list! Anyways, with U.S. now siding with Israel and Saudi Arabia against Iran, look for the U.S. to quickly persuade Ethiopia to withdraw from Badme and lift U.N. sanctions against Eritrea. On the side, see that your restive Oromos are again demonstrating.

Berhe Y

Hi FishMilk,

US siding with Israel and Saudi Arabia against Iran? Man which plant do you live. The US has been siding with Isreal since 1948 (70 years) and the US has been siding with SA since 1980 for almost (40 years).

I don’t understand, in your world, how miserable failure policy of IA into success. He got the sanctions because he was meddling in Somalia. Hilary Clinton (when she was Secretary of State) told him to “cease and desist”.

If sanctions are lifted not because of SA, Isreal, Iran or Ethiopia but because the “Anchiwa” has stopped and he is put in his place.

But he caused Eritrea 10 years of misery…and nothing to show for.

Here is a quote from BBC

“It is long past time for Eritrea to cease and desist its support of al-Shabab and to start being a productive rather than a destabilising neighbour.

“We are making it very clear that their actions are unacceptable. We intend to take action if they do not cease.” .

Man,
Why do you think, anything that happens in Ethiopia is my business.
“On the side, see that your restive Oromos are again demonstrating.” I really don’t know what Ethiopians want and need and let them figure out what they want.

Berhe

FishMilk

Hi Berne Y. I live on a planet where even Forrest Gump undersatands that Iran’s missle launch, 1-day following Trump’s pull-out from the Iran agreement (not accidental timing) is a major game changer. Silence on Yamamoto’s mission will not be long lived.

Berhe Y

Hi FM,

I didn’t know Eritrea was permanent member of SC.

Aqmina enteHelmna YHaysh.

Berhe

blink

Dear Berhe
The UN commission mandated to look after this Somalia thing found zero evidence that Eritrea supported Al shebab. The only party that believe such lies is only the manufacturers and it happens to be the manufacturer are weyane . I don’t expect weyane to speak the truth because basically their ever thought was how to lie .

Hilarious you mention BBC the most lies news on this earth and Hilary the loser believed all weyane guys and that was unfortunate but who to blame . Make sure to support your claims from the party that worked hard to find evidence.
Eritrea has nothing to do with Somalia and it was all lies . The failures of Issaias should not be used to punish Eritrea by UN .

Berhe Y

Hi Blink,

ገመል ሰሪቕካስ ጉምብሕ ጉምብሕ እኮ ኮንዩ ናታትኩም ነገር፡፡

He Hassan Aweys, who was on the US and the UN wanted list showed up in Eritrea in 2007. Not only that, the Eritrean government organized and facilitated a conference in Asmara. If you the sanction on Eritrea was, say for it’s involvement in Tanzania, then you may have a point. But the who Islamic court operation escaped and were hosted in Eritrea.

አድጊ ዘይብሉስ በቕሊ ይንዕቕ፡፡ As an Eritrean who is sympathetic to the PFDJ government, really have the audacity to mock the BBC, spreading lies on Earth.

I really feel sorry how the legacy of EPLF and DimTsi Hafash and their credibility being trashed by wannabe supporters.

As to the BBC news, they quoted Hilary Clinton. She said those words, from her own mouth and that’s what she ended up doing.

Did Eritrea stopped it’s support since the sanctions. YES. Because the Anchiwa learned his lesson, always the hard way. Will the sanctions will be lifted, SURE it can. Because it was NEVER permanent in the first place…until the regime stops and learns it’s lesson.

Berhe

blink

Dear Berhe
I agree that it is a very bitter pill to swallow, especially considering that the many of these Islamic congress members are now being paid by weyane to do the dirty work . Are you suggesting anyone who was in Asmara are Al shebab ? Mind you there are many from these people on the rank of trusted western goons in Somalia . The Islamic congress would have been far better to Somalians than all the western puppets. I can mention many names from these who were in Asmara and now at the gate of any deal between the west and Somalians but it will require you to be honest at the first place which is very hard to be .

Berhe Y

Dear blink,

For all I know the Islamic court would have been better for the Somali people. I am not in any way support Ethiopia’s invasion of Somali.

The discussion with FM was, he was indicating that the sanctions will be lifted because of US, SA, Iran etc. I am telling him, if the sanctions will be lifted it’s because of the SC : Re: Eritrea case with Somalia and I will add Djibouti as well.

Eritrea may even be correct to be on the side of the IC or what have you but the big powers, the US were trying hard that Somalia doesn’t become another country where they launch attacks against the US. They did that in to the US embassy in East Africa and Aweys were implicated with that.

Why would Eritrea get’s involved in the first place?

Ethiopia, Susan Rice, the UN (Koffi Annan) and others use the opportunity to punish IA and Eritrea.

So I am not approving their actions, but I believe our leader, who is acting on our behalf is responsible for it.

Your argument was, they didn’t find any evidence there for Eritrea is innocent doesn’t hold water. How do you know, IA didn’t hand them money full of laggages while they were in Asmara?

Berhe

blink

Dear Berhe
You know for sure Somalians were one of the Eritrean helper hand at our survival times and the Islamic congress come to Eritrea because they knew Ethiopia was not the place to be and also the fact that they see Ethiopia as the arc enemy of the Somalians . If you remember at that time the Islamic congress do accuse Ethiopia trying to divide Somalia in to many states , they were right .

Here I am not defending the failures of PFDJ diplomatic failures and I certainly blame Issaias for the sanctions.

Berhe Y

Hi Blink,

Sure they supported us, but it should not be at the expenses of our country and our people. Eritrea can make it’s case at the UN, SC, at IGAD etc opposing Ethiopia’s interference.

But hosting a guy wanted by the UN is not to the best interest of Eritrea.

The problem is, Eritrea is owned by IA and he does as he wishes. No body can challenge him and no body can stop him so we pay regardless.

Do you actually believe IA did that our of his good heart to return a favor? Or he did that so to create a proxy war with Ethiopia?

Before you answer,..I want you to think deeply, what type offer did he provide to Kaddaffi in times of his needs. Since we are talking as a matter of principle.

Berhe

blink

Dear Berhe
We are not debating about IA control of Eritrea and humiliated Eritreans at his wish , that’s true . The Islamic congress on the other hand were not radical lunatics as al shebab. It is dishonesty to blame them for any bad motive against the west or anything. Who sold arms to alshebab ? certainly not Eritrea due to many reasons but since Ethiopia won the bid to be boots of the west and since weyane main plan was to catch the big ego of IA, the sanctions against Eritrea went through a hash hash of the evil hearted Susan rice at the UN. Basically the reason was all lies and all the AU bombing or many lies was staged by weyane .

Again, what was the aim of the sanction ? Arms embargo that’s it . And the main reason for arms embargo are all known.

blink

Dear FM
Don’t forget you are debating with Ethiopians specifically a Tigrians who support TPLF . How can’t you know this . Remember if you ever mention Ethiopia , except the two to come at you .

Alex

Hi Berhe,
I have to be a devil advocate regarding your statement above that ” how about IA hidden account in Switzerland that was exposed by the insider leak which shows that he has 695 million dollars hidden in his account”. You can accuse PIA about anything you want but when it comes to corruption and benefiting himself or his family with money is not one of them. So make sure you check your source carefully before you accuse him for something that is factually false if not you could lose you credibility.

Berhe Y

Hi Alex,

How do you know he is not corrupt and he doesn’t have stash of money hidden in the offshore accounts.

Which Forensic accounting firm have you hired to audit Eritrea and the president accounts?

The leak of the swiss bank accounts, the amount associated to Eritrea there is no doubt. It’s there.

Also Nevsun told, the investigators that it transfer hard cash currency to a Swiss account and not to the ministry of finance or the Eritrean banks.

Can you refute these claims?

Just because he wears ሰንደል ናይ መደበር doesn’t mean that he is corrupt. He was corrupt all his life….he was in charge of the money…He treats the whole Eritrea and it’s resources like his own account.

Hi Berhe: I can understand for you to lack the imagination of the amount of the money you are talking about. It is not your fault, all welfare state residences have the same problem. Since everything is given to you, you have no understanding the difficulty of amassing that much many by a single Eritrean freedom fighter. I get it. Let’s go with your lazy line of thinking, you said ” Just because he wears ሰንደል ናይ መደበር doesn’t mean that he is corrupt.”
I think you mean to say ” Just because he wears ሰንደል ናይ መደበር doesn’t mean that he is ” NOT” corrupt.. Fine, say he has all that money but he is walking around to fool people with Sandals, He is 70 something old man, if not now when do you think he can enjoy all that stash money? Like I have said, you are too lazy to think but who, a person in the right mind who has 700 million dollars resides in Adi-Hallo whiffing dust and eating bread and tea? Your dumbness mind bugling. think man.

Paulos

Dude,

Boooooooooring!

FishMilk

Hi Paulos. Well….without that World Bank money, Ethiopia’s critical hard currency levels would hardly allow it to pursue investment/expansion of Berbera Port and Port Sudan. Ethiopia’s hard situation is reflected by the huge difference between bank and black market exchange rate, it is reminiscent of the Derg time.

FishMilk

Hi Berne Y. I believe Eritrean Government parastatals would be good places to conduct peaceful demonstrations to place pressure on the PFDJ on issues such as imprisonment without due process. Hell, why not even have opposition meetings/gatherings held at PFDJ fronted restaurants. Opposition strategies must go after both the small and big fish and on issues that have across the board appeal and not on issues such as the 2% tax for which the U.S. also applies (above a certain threshold) to its citizens living abroad.

Berhe Y

Selam FM,

All good idea. Please organize such activity and they will gladly join you.

Berhe

Mez

Hi observer,

I can’t believe what my eye is reading.

The unionist movement had expired decades ago. Now we do have defacto two nations, and we will be better off if we stay like this. This is the least expensive (human life, resource, time) one.

Thanks

Paulos

Selam Mez,

I am just curious, what does “Mez” mean?

Mez

Hi Paulos, the first three letters of my name.

Thanks

Paulos

Selam Mez,

Oh ok. Thank you.

Nitricc

Hi Mez; I am trying to solve your name, just curious and I came up with as what Eri-TV say to candid camera. “Mezengie- Camera. So, I say your name is Mezengie. If I failed let me know.

Mez

Good Day Nitricc,

Approximately correct.

Hope

“Breaking News”:

“Ethiopia and Eritrea reconciliation is not likely any time soon”.
“The ONLY way forward is:”To start things from scratch–before 1998,as the EEBC is now NULL and VOID”
Source:
tigraionline/Dr Yacob Weldemariam(One of Ethiopia’s Lawyers,who represented Ethiopia in the EEBC Verdict/Court).
“.

blink

Dear Hope
Here you have another Tigray on line idiot, he is associate professor in ( no clue ) university. Here he says

The development and expansion of the port at Berbera supports two primary pillars of Ethiopia’s regional policy. The first is maintaining Eritrea’s isolation. The aim would be to weaken it to the point that it implodes and is formally reunited to Ethiopia.

This man is called an expert on security.

abay

Dear blik,
It should have been clear right from the beginning that Ethiopia is done with any for of unity in terms of merger. The signs are written all over the wall: The economic merger going on with Djibouti including Ethiopia’s share ownership of the port in exchange of Djibouti’s ownership of Ethiopian Airlines shares, (please read the latest edition of Fortune the private Ethiopian English weekly), on going and upcoming rail way constructions heading to ports other than Assab, on going discussion with three other ports… I sometimes wonder if so many Eritrean truly believe it when the discuss their fear of assumed Ethiopia’s intent of any annexation or merger or anything of that sort. Why would it? Please rest assured that is simply a non existent ghost like thing that scares you if you HONESTLY are worried. You have too many things on your plate and I think you should focus your attentions on those. It would also be cordial if the very few “pollutants” refrain from referring to Ethiopia in a degrading manner, or wishful thinking that indicates to non existent directions. Hate bears hate and we really should avoid that.
Thanks a lot and a nice day.
Abay

blink

Dear Abay
I agree with all your points except the accusations. I am one of these who wish Ethiopia to get its port access away from Eritrea. I see any Ethiopia’s money to Eritrea as cursed money.

FishMilk

Hi all. The great democratic paradiso -Ethiopia- is required by its constitution to have a census undertaken every 10 years with the last one haven taken place in 2007. Any news on when the new census will take place?

I do not understand why you are cynical about the little democracy there is in ethiopia? You brought census every 10 yrs as a measure if a country is a democracy paradise or not. Nothing is going to change if the priority for the country at the moment is something else. How do you call a country that has no constitution and has never carried out a census?

FishMilk

Hi Horizon. There is a difference in that nobody is calling Eritrea a democracy whereas Ethiopians and unionists here are boasting that Ethiopia is.

Kim Hanna

Selam FishMilk,

You are right Ethiopia is not a Democracy. They are working on it.
I want to ask you a million dollar question. Please read carefully to the end and if there is any question that pops up ask before you answer.

Did you read saay and Haile Zeru talking about PIA was considering being President of Ethiopia, around 1991?
I found it interesting because that was what I hoped for 1991, in desperation.

Sr. Members of EPLF said no, PIA was over ruled, so to speak
The question to you is, let me add sweeteners and see if IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ACCEPTABLE TO YOU IN 1991.

==================
If the following proposal was made by Meles and TPLF leaders to EPLF and I.A

PIA to be the President of the New Republic.

The territory of this New Republic will have boarders with Sudan, Kenya, Somalia and Djibouti.

The name Ethiopia will be dropped and Eritrea will be the new modern name of this New Republic.

Asmara will be the capital city.

The flag, the TCHerq, will be what EPLF would approve of.

================

WOULD YOU, FishMilk, APPROVE THE PROPOSAL ON BEHALF OF EPLF?

If yes, I understand.
If not, what is the burning issue for YOU to keep Eritrea as is?

Until FishMilk responds to your inquiry, allow me to give you brief hint on what I believe to be the burning issue to keep Eritrea as is.

Eritreans from Denkel eastern most to Sahel and Barka and Semhar north most to SenHit, Hamasien, Seraye and Akeleguzay representing all nine nationalities fought together and gave life and limb for Three Decades in the war to liberate their land and people from Ethiopian occupation and non democratic feudal first then communist dictatorship. Together they bled and together they emerged victorious. All Eritreans however have not had the chance to reconcile a lot among themselves, even up until now, as much as Ethiopians need to for a little or a long while longer. Where as Ethiopian issues as been and is the issue of ethnic nationalism and centralized Ethiopian democratic governance, Eritreans first need to solidify a united Eritrean nation based on the core value forged between themselves in the time of armed struggle for independence. Ethiopians need to understand the necessity to leave alone Eritrean issues to be dealt by themselves and reconciling many ills born out of the ugly long arduous war. And only after this can the two nation states reconcile their interstate wars and have future mutually beneficial relations to normalize trade with both peoples dignities intact. Ethiopians need to understand the need for Eritrean healing by Eritreans much Ethiopia needs to heal by Ethiopians before moving forward. All and any maneuvers solely based on their own states interests and benefits and disregarding the inevitable and necessary process of building a strong state healed from its own internal wounds will prove to be futile and blind ventures towards achieving the non attainable peace and prosperity of Ethiopia, Eritrea and the region as a whole.
I will elaborate even more on the Eritreans approach even more in future comments, but in the mean time feel free to ask questions you need clarifications on. In the mean time please understand and accept whole heatedly that the Core Values of Ertireans without a doubt is:
Abbu AAshera Weapon X – Evolution.
tSAtSE

Amde

Selam ጻጸ

Are you Ok? How is it your posts are suddenly accessible to us mere mortals? …

Amde

Paulos

Selam Amde,

Imagine having Tsatse for the President Of The State Of Eritrea! His yearly speech would drive us nuts to decipher the message in the lines and between the lines, starting from the Abu Ashera Weapon-X thing. He would have to appoint a person, say, Berhe on a cabinet level with a title, “Minister of Translation.”

Ever since I heard the expression “ዘይሀፍር ድሙ ገረማርያም ሽሙ።” I have not ceased furtively checking all the Gebremariams that pass my path to see if they have tell tale whiskers or tails.

Now this apparently feline inspired saying “*ወዲ ድሙ ዘይገድፍ ኣመሉ 😂.” is new to me. What is going on?

Amde

Paulos

Selam Amde,

In fact, the ዘይሓፍር bashing is not only confined to the feline but the ant has been at the receiving end as well as in ዘይሓፍር ጻጸ ጎንደር ከይዱ ይላጸ.

I really want to know the story behind these sayings where in the first place, ant is bald as they come and why in the world would the ant wants to go to Gonder to find itself under the razor. I hope ሓፍተይ ኣብረሀት ሃይላት or ክብሮም could shed some light on the story behind it.

saay7

Paulos,

I don’t know why the ant was headed to Gonder, but I know why the caterpillar was. They had a whole CSI episode on that where the investigators interviewed him and I have the transcripts:

Q. ኣባ ጨጎራ! Yo, yo, caterpillar!
ናበይ ትኸይድ? Where you headed to?

A. ንዓዲ ኣምሓራ To the Land of Amhara

Q. እንታይ ክትገብር? What for?

A. ሓምሓም ክሰብር! To break gourds!

Q. ሓምሓም እንታየ? What gourds?

A. ሓምሓም ባሪቶ Gours of Barito (I am assuming that is a place)

Generalized Curse: ከም ነፋሒቶ? ወፊርካ ኣይትእቶ! Like a chameleon? May you never succeed!

saay

Paulos

Sal,

You’re looking good tonight ma bro! You should see me laughing. That actually sounds like Eminem’s dig. I can actually see you rapping with a cool swagger.

I take that back. Not Eminem but Wedi Tquabo’s metamorphosis between ኣባጨጎራ and ጽምብላሊዕ.

Haile S.

Hey Sal,
Unexpectedly you frequently come with gems like this one. This is something I knew during childhood, but had lost the rhythm and verse. Thank you for bringing it in. Allow me to give some hint on the ሓምሓም ባሪቶ. It could have been ሓምሓም ባሬቶ. ባሬቶ is a king of pigeon with ኩሕሎ ዓይኒ that perches around the ህድሞ and churches. If it was ባሬታ, which I don’t think so, it means a gourde urinal, but doesn’t rime with the follo-up words.

iSem

Hi Sal:
without the context of your exchange, just to be in your nerves, so you can put one hand on the waist,,,, I bring to your attention this rhyms just for the sake of it, just like the proverbs,making on the go
No logic, from the lizard, the sname, the bird, it is the chamilion that can survive, wefira to come home in one piece of its defensive mechanism that fascinate kis,
Caterpillar just rh with Amhara,unless kbrom, Haile, Semere tell me the logic behind this
Barito as a place,maybe be but in Tig it can also mean dove or something that look like dove, some type of bird

But it was a children’s song. After every line, we used to say “aha” which meant, “and then what?”…. It makes as much sense as “Do you like green eggs and ham? I do not like them,Sem-I-am”, I mean Sam I am, by Dr Seuss.

If you want to know what political campaigning will look like when we have political parties, all you have to do is listen to the poems of the 1940s, like:

ማሩየ ማሩ
ሓው ዝናሩ
ደግያት ካሳ
ወርቂ ከስከሳ

ok, fine, I won’t tell you more. You do not appreciate art:)

saay

iSem

hi Sal:
I know it was kids song when kids were allowed to be kids
But if you run against me with that slogan you will lose mine will be this. I mean when you head hunted talent runs against me:-)
ዑፈይ ብረሪ ባርካ ሳሕል ተዛወሪር
ማይ ተኽላ ይዛሪ ስገም ሓምስን ቆራጡሚ
ጣፍ ሰራየ ተርፍ ጽጋብና ተመገቢ
የሓዋት አለዋኺ አብ ዕላ
እንተ ዘይ አምንኪ ኪዲ ርአይየን ዋላ
ምስላ አቦታት ክም ዝብሎ
ዘረባ ድኻ ሓቂ ‘ዪ ግን መን ይስምዓዮ
ማይ ሰነ ጽሩይ ‘ዩ ግን መን ይስተዮ
መራሑኹም እንተቀባ እኩምኒ
ዘረባኺም አዮዕብር
ደረት ግራርኩም አይደፍ እ
ውልድኩም ንሳዋ አይጽድፍ
that is generic one but when I go to Semere’s TH area and Anseba, I will use the following
When I am elected, there will never be “tmiet”, nor “mwrrarrayy” and all pastoral families will stop using “mesentso” made from plants to protect the environment and my administration will candidly share its failing, no more shomal-shomal like my opponent. Pausing for the applause, I continue: And since the environment is changing and it getting colder, my administration will subside so the uniform of all kids to be “shweshsh”

I learned this from you, you learned it from YG:-)
🙂

Haile S.

Selam Paul, Amde and all,
I think the saying that you want to reach could be ወዲ ድሙ ከም ቀደሙ. But after you added the ጻጸ saying, I thought of another tandem:
ዘይሓፍር ድሙ ገብረማርያን ሽሙ
ዘይሓፈር ጻጸ ጎንደር ከይዱ ይላጸ
Imagine a cat acting as the servant of St Mary. Similarly, can you imagine someone from mereb mlash (መረብ ምላሽ) trying to cross all the dangers, braving the wild and the ሽፍታ, all the way to Gonder and get appointed as ሹም or ከንቲባ after the fall of the Gonderian power (የጎንደር ዘመነ መንግስት) after the mid 17 hundreds. This is my own interpretation of that proverb. It might be looked as a stretch, but that is the first plausible hypothesis that came to my mind and I cling to it.

Paulos

Hailat,

That is actually smart. As you put it, the saying was probably conjured up when Gonder was the city of the power be. Thank you.

Abrehet Yosief

Selam Amde,
The correct way to say it is: “ወዲ ድሙ ዘይገድፍ ግብረ እሙ” The switching to Geez on the last two words is to show sophistication. Just like what you did above with the ሙታንታ ሙታንቲስ ገለመለ. 🙂

Paulos

ሰላም ሓፍተይ,

ጎዲልክና ቀኒኺ ንስኺ ዘይብሉ ሰናይ ኣይኮነን: አይትጥፍእና::

Abrehet Yosief

Selam Paulos,
I can see I missed quite a lot. wish I had time. It is a situation of ዓሻ ጠሓኒትሲ ምስ ፈታሊት ተዕልል.

Yes I am ok. You can make your own prognosis by reading my last reply to Saay7, Do focus on the (ok^2)^2 rebiHu tedemiru kulu gzie arbaEte…

tSAtSE

Amde

Aha..

Let me see now..

That is (((((ok)^2)^2)×4)+4)=ጻጸStatus

So solving for “OK”..
…
…
…
Dammit.. I ran out of thumbs….
Taking the log of Ok out of mine eyes…
I see imma be seriously out-OKed.

Well played sir.. well played..

saay7

Amde:

Now you done did it. tSatSe is on to permutations and probabilities. Or maybe it is permanence because 2+2 = 4; 2*2 = 4; and 2^2 is also 4. Ok? Ok. Oklahoma is ok where, according to Sir Amde, okie-dokey only leads to hokey-pokey.

Speaking of which, dealer: I am ready to cash out my 100,000 satoshis because, according to Eritrea’s Charge d’affaires to the US, “the diplomatic relationship between Eritrea and USA is almost restored.” Trump, the anti-Obama, is ready to deal and we all know about his legendary (in his head) deal-making skills.

saay

Amde

Haha Saay..

I am looking for a fat lady, whose fatness fitness is such that she will most assuredly qualify as fat enough to sing on May 1 2019. When she belts out (what’s ur favorite tune by the way?..hokoe pokie perhaps?).. then and only then shall the ሳቶሺ be የሳይ ሳቶሺ።

You got me stumped on the number 2 devilry.. This ጻጸStatus thing is definitely a probabilistic universe. Something akin to ናይ ሽሮdinger ድሙ, one knows it only with certainty in the mood of the moment.

Now then, can you take on the mantle of crafting a new Tigrinya proverb with the theme of ድሙ and a probabilistic ሽሮዋማ universe?

Amde

saay7

Amde,

First, the proverbs dealing with cats:

ድመት በታች ከሆነች: ውሻ ታሸንፋለች
ድመት ውስጥ ውስጡን ኣውሬ ናት

There are others dealing with መንኩሳ and አይጥ that we will skip in the interest of time. In Tigrinya, the only other reference to the cat that hasn’t been mentioned that I know of is ይባሃል ኢላ: ድሙ ተኳሒላ which only makes sense if you are on acid. (“A cat applies mascara because she is a copycat.”) Also, despite the fact that cats are beautiful creatures, in Tigrinya calling someone ኣንታ ድሙ! is not a compliment. But it is better than ወዲ ኸልቢ (son of a dog) which is better than calling them ኣድጊ (donkey) as the latter implies mental defect, the former implies generalized anger against your whole entity and geneology, and the former former is just the equivalent, “oh, you rascal.”

There was a home-brew (alcohol content: 1 sip below alcohol poisoning) called ድሙ ድሙ, but I will leave that to iSem (because it is part of his Greatest Hit against Ghedli:)

My song when I win? {Big Lebowski scene on} The preferred nomenclature is not fat lady, dude. It is extra. Don’t try to body shame her. {Big Lebowski scene off.} If we are picking one, I will pick the one from Heart singing “Baracuda.” If two, then add the Mamas & Papas singing “California Dreaming.”

Whatever problems you have with Tigrinya proverbs about cats, remember, we haven’t come with something as absurd as “that’s not the only way to skin a cat.” I mean, who skins a cat? And do you need AbuAshera for it?

saay

Paulos

Sal,

Cat has had prestige moment in the scientific community as in the thought experiment of Schrodinger’s Cat in an effort to explain the weird world of Quantum Mechanics. The cat is dead and alive simultaneously.

Kim Hanna

Selam tSAtSE,
.
Thanks for your properly constructed and dignified high caliber response.
I was hoping to get a response from FishMilk,( who has a strong positions on matters) to my absurd hypothetical question. I don’t know it, of course, but I thought in hindsight, he might adjust his response to avoid the KNOWN SUBSQUENT CATASTROPHIES SINCE 1991.
.
The loss of hundreds of thousands souls and even more untold misery of the people on both sides. All other related dislocations added might have tempered his response, I thought.
This is all since 1991. He might have just stuck to the politically correct geography centered reply no matter what and let it go.
In either case the display would highlight the core belief of some of the people he resembles for all to contemplate.
.
Hypotheticals being hypothetical some one from my side could ask the question, as to why I wish PIA on Ethiopia. Perhaps maybe even bigger disaster on the people of Ethiopia was avoided, for which I would have no answer.
.
Mr. K.H

Berhe Y

Hi FishMilk,

You know they say “You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.”. You know you are trying to hide the ugly, sad and total miserable Eritrea has become for Eritreans because of IA. You are trying all you can to divert the attention for the sorry state Eritrea has turned out to be.

We can blame Ethiopia, Unionist, opposition, US, all you want but the issue squarely remains with IA and his PFDJ government.

Berhe

FishMilk

Hi Berhe Y and Horizon. You guys just don’t get it or you don’t want to get it. Making negative comments against Eritrea’s illegal occupier Ethiopia (TPLF) does not mean that one supports the PIA/PFDJ regime. Nobody here is trying to candy coat the bad situation inside Eritrea like they do for Ethiopia.

Berhe Y

Hi FishMilk,

And no ERITREAN is defending Eritrean lands that’s occupied by Ethiopia. Can you please ONE.

So stop staying Unionist this, Ethiopian supporters that.

However, we, Eritreans to prioritize our urgent with less so urgent needs.

Considering the opportunity we are losing and the total disintegration of our society and our people, weather the boarder demarcated becomes lesser priority (I didn’t say not important).

You know why, because there is nothing the ERITREAN government or anyone can do about it, without the Ethiopian government willing to do so.

The only other way is via force, which IA, the anchiwa of Nacfa, will not dare repeat.

FYI, Did we stop fighting the Derg for our independence when the same Weyane was occupying exactly the same lands? No, because Independece and getting rid of the Derg was higher priority, rather than fighting TPLF.

Berhe

FishMilk

Hi Berne Y. Eritreans cannot defend land that is being illegally occupied by Ethiopia. Efforts to effect regime change in Eritrea must entail joint pursuit of: 1) A bad PIA/PFDJ regime, and 2j Ethiopia’s illegal occupation of Badme. Failure to do the later in equal vigor, makes any effort appear sympathetic to Ethiopia/TPLF’s no-peace/no war economic isolationist strategy against Eritrea; as such it lacks broad based appeal.

Berhe Y

Dear FishMilk,

Who is exactly doing the labeling? And can you please provide what is the source of your theory that it’s in Eritrea’s best interest do so, i.e, perusing these two points.

You are not going to make me repeat to you what “insanity” means, are you?

Berhe

Hope

Berhe:
FM admitted that PIA is also responsible but can u refute what I listed above or u still think that it is the same pig that am putting lipsticks on?

“If u look like a duck ,walk like a duck u r a duck”
“If u look like a terrorist,act like a Terrorist,U r a terrorist”:
(Courtesy of the Russian FM)
If you u talk like a TPLF,act like a TPLF,then U R a TPLF!

Berhe Y

Dear Hope,

How about I copy what you just said and apply it…

If you u talk like PFDJ, act like PFDJ, then you are a PFDJ.

As to the TPLF, honestly, I think they have forgot about you long time ago. They don’t even remember you any more…I have never heard any TPFL official say anything related to Eritrea..

Can you show me those marathon 3 days 4 hours interview the president gives every year and talk for hours and hours about TPLF?

What happens to the “GAME OVER”? Many this PMAAA pulles “Shelata Werata (I think)”, ask saay he will tell you what it means.

Berhe

Hope

Well said FM.

Just try to make your English less technical !

That is EXACTLY what some of us here and the Silent Eri Majority think.

Welcome to the Club;and mark my word,FM is considered here as a PFDJ Apologist for stating such a fact courageously and boldly as well as TRUTHFULLY and factually!

Berhe Y et al are putting the Cart before the Horse in the name of Justice Seekers and in the name of fighting the PFDJ w/o (without)Plan B.

Mind you that the TPLF had and has been openly and publically declaring and doing the following:
(The Tip of the Iceberg):

-To reverse Eritrean Independence per PMMZ’s Interview with Paul Henze ,Cohen and then with David Sheen(Eritrea shall join Ethiopia very soon”(Please listen to /watch the clip at TN .Com)

-The same TPLF was provoking the GoE (border skirmishes,harassment of Eritreans at the border,Invasion of Adi Murug,The old new Abay Tigray Map)to start a war ,which they did…in the VERY words of PMMZ,who said” We have been waiting for this Opportunity for PIA to ignite the war so that the TPLF will have to declare war against Eritrea officially thru his Puppet Ethiopian Parliament

-The futile attempt to capture Asmera and Aseb

-The entire saga of the aftermath of the war
The flip-flopping,dragging of the EEBC,claiming the ERBC void and null then accepting in Principle,The Five-Point-plan

-The Evil Axis of the Sana Forum to isolate Eritrea

-The Regime Change Threat

-The abuse of the IGAD and the AU and its puppets to sanction Eritrea with full back of the CIAs,the M-16s..,the Mossads..etc

-The set up of Filthy Tigray Camps to drain Eritrea from its Productive Forces(the EDF,the Youth)in the very words of PMMZ

-The abuse of Eritrean Refugees and Eritrean ID

-Its Official Lobbying against the EU Funds for Eritrea

-Its dangerous plots to divide Eritreans on Religion,Region,and Ethnic based politics besides sponsoring dangerous Fanatics and Terrorists as well as Seccessionists.
Etc…,
And yet ,Berhe et al are talking some nonesense… as if the above Evil Agenda and Acts of the same Weyane fully sponsored by its Masters…. are kidisina or Good Priorities for the Pseudo-Justice Seekers and Fake Opposition Groups….. or Unionists.

FishMilk

Hi Horizon. IMF has just placed paradiso Ethiopia in High Risk of Debt Distress. TPLF thugs have already taken too much hard currency out of Ethiopia.

saay7

Selam George:

It’s difficult to communicate with you and ESL has nothing to do with it: you are a ጣርጣሮ: you just jump around from one topic to another and you are another graduate of the ሕልሚ ደርሆ Academy the PFDJ runs. And, no, the “me=good Eritrean; you=bad Eritrean” thing you are doing here is as the Sudanese say “gedima” but thanks for playing.

Your problem is not English but logic: after jumping around and talking about Austrian embassies that have nothing to do with GoE-acknowledged numbers, now you are asking me why isn’t the Commission of Inquirry on Eritrea (CoIE) investigating Obama and Congo? I guess because they are not named Eritrea. And I gave you a direct quote from them: that since every Eritrean they interviewed has been imprisoned by the Eritrean Government or knows someone has been imprisoned, I extrapolated that that applies to all Eritreans including YOU. And you are still changing subjects. I wonder what you will change this one to. Try to stick to the topic.

saay

@george

Dear Saay,
First you better not call me pdfj graduate. I belong to the elite group of eritreans that worship Issays Afewrki. AKA ,wedi afom and/or you can call me son of a kebor junkie. Now lets talk “logic” . One thing we, PIA worshipers hate is logic. Geez, bro, I thought you are my home boy. why give me hard assignment? Any way,
1. According to you GOE is incompetent and murderous. Why would you take the word of such government and make a story out of it? lets be honest you already condemned the government to be guilty of every sin there is If your SOURCE OF THE INFORMATION IS UNRELIABLE then why?
Now I “hope this is to your satisfaction as Gustavo fringe” (from the “breaking bad” would say.

saay7

Selamat @george:

Well, you know the old EPLF truism ንጸላኢ ብዕጥቁን ብረቱን?:)

I still don’t know what your beef is. A government, claiming to speak for me, wrote 100 pages of falsehoods. I, with my limited capability (I am not a lawyer), exercising my freedom of expression (the one not allowed in Eritrea) am saying, “this is not true, this appears to be true but why were you keeping it a secret, this one is so far from the truth the government has a lot of chutzpah writing it, etc.” I was hoping you would say, “here’s where you are wrong and the government is right.” Instead, you are just pounding the podium.

saay

@geroge

dear say
You said logic I give you one. Now you are talking about BEEF:) Pounding podium, really that is all you can say. You have not written anything new. If fact TPLF got you bet by like 20 years. You are late buddy. Your article is unoriginal and repetitive. And frankly embarrassing for a guy who should know better. It is insane. I hope you apply yourself to better use.
adios

saay7

@george:

Selamat! I think you are confusing logic for logical fallacy, a PFDJ specialty. So far you have used:

1. ad populum (only those who think like me are Eritreans);
2. Red herring (I will ignore your questions and just say stuff I hope some will think is an argument)
3. The Three Monkey’s Fallacy or Deliberate Ignorance (I don’t want to hear it!)

Do go on and entertain us:) In some parallel universe, I am sure you are winning 😂

Ahhh ewwe ntSelaEi bEEiTTqun bretun! Hope it remains sacred and intact as a formidable successful Eritrean modus operandi and quintessential Eritrean mantra of yesteryear and today in your thought and CORE belief. I still owe you one more assesment…
The linear progression remains 2X + Saay’s 7 = 27yrs and X =
Abbu AAshera Weapon X – Evolution!
I am hopeful there are inkling of seedlings, as we commence the 27th year, you will consider: AmErgitSAtSE Counter Narrative 2018 NesafiH NESAFIH (h)gdef “Nkhid TTray.” You are a GitSAtSE Eritrean Admiral after all.

tSAtSE

saay7

Giant tSatSe:

I went to an ok school, and I did ok in Math, but I still need help understanding your formula.

X = Abu Ashera Weapon X – Evolution.

I have questions.

First, “X” is used on both sides of the equation, this appears to be a Circular Defition (a form of circular argument.)

Second, assumed the two Xs mean different things (one standing for the unknown, another for the Abu Ashera brand), are we subtracting evolved from it (making the Abu Ashera less evolved) or approaching evolved (in which case the proper mathematics sign for approaching should be used.)

Third, given that Abu Ashera is a name of a rifle, and since an evolved rifle is a Klashnikov (AK-47) can we substitute for it? Or is it not the rifle but the man using it has to be evolved.

I am thinking of resurrecting “Unbound” your brain child at awate a while ago. If and when I do there will be math talk particularly the concepts of permutations and combinations. This Unbound submission I am considering is sort of a progressive rebuttal to your this your current Al-Nahda article. And I strongly believe your late April product is still the showers to what I am planning and hoping will be the May Flower. After all, you are MirH to the Kokhob tSibaH and the Flowers of the Red kind such as myself.
With regards to the equation all you need to know is that Saay’s SEVEN is vital to my forthcoming proposal. Saay’s 7 is a quantity valued and belongs the SalYounis. And it has a factorial, (n! = n*(n-1)*(n-2)..(n-k)..*1) multiplying effect. Perhaps if I right X substitution variable as on character with no spaces like X = AbbuAAsheraWeaponXEvolution you too will realize that tSAtSE also did attend an “Ok school and did ok in math–(ok^2)^2, (rebiHu tedemiru kulu gzie arbaEte) which brings us to the doubling down on AbbuAShera that sparked the initial fire of Eritrea’s great generation (R)evolutionaries, which is the idea “weapon X) not symbolized by awate’s rifle ‘Padre di X’. More important though is your interpretation of the equation in which you say the solution is the null set. The null set I will say is a favorable solution in that our collective quest is ultimately to reach and fell the peace sensation when our bodies and minds are at complete rest or zero motion. Hence, the Ode to the Admiral of PRINCIPIA author of “The Motion of Bodies”, the knighted IN with the Sir name one can extrapolate from dissecting the tree FIG.

I suppose Pillar Amde your fellow “lawyer at awate” will find solace in my well being now that I am speaking the language of immortal mathematics. I write because I really like to be read. Am I? If you can read Faulkner, gentlemen, I should be cake.

Now that by design I have you, Saay7, and perhaps the likes of Pillar Amde inspecting my equations and formulas, then ahead of my pending Unbound submission, I suggest you look at the formulas nPr and nCr, the basis of my thesis plus LOGIC.
nPr = n!/(n-r)! < nCr = n!/[r!*(n-r)!] Meanwhile the permutations of the linear progression 2*AbbuAAsheraWeaponXEvolution + Saay's 7 = 27yrs and as always X=
Abbu AAshera Weapon X – Evolution! You never know may be it is a PROPITIOUS moment for
AmErgitSAtSE Counter Narrative 2018; nesafiH NESAFIH (h)gdf "Nkhid TTrayy."

tSAtSE

saay7

tSatSe the Giant:

By all means, please bring “Unbound.” That idea, incidentally, was just me and Gabriel Guangul talking and saying let’s get back to our first love, writing. He started writing poems at asmarino and I went for prose. Then I think Beyan Negash joined us. It was my favorite series, but I only remember two of mine: one was called “Just Another Friday” and another was a review of the campy movie ፈቲሐ ዶ ክምርዓወኪ. The ether swallowed both and I don’t know what became of them.

Anyway, I can’t wait to read your unbound. But a favor please: always dumb it down for us. Speaking for the room, we feel that you have a lot to contribute and we are missing a lot of it because it is too dense. Faulkner? He is easy! Yours is Marx translated to Geez.

saay

Amde

Sorry..
Should Evolution! be considered
“Evolution” the slogan
Or
Evolution factorial

saay7

Amde:

Tsk, tsk. Of course Evolution! is the factorial because it has to be done of your own volution.

Evolution!Volution! Ion! Like a lion.

Goes without saying this is set to Bob Marleys “iron, like a lion.” But don’t tell Abrehet: she thinks lions are overrated.

Irie!

saay

blink

Dear saay
Is it true that the male lions are lazy ? I just wanted to know with out going to BBC earth or Animal planet . Here is something that Abrhet needs to arm herself about the lion.
The male is lazy , greedy and murderer . The male doesn’t hunt food he just sleep and roar , that’s it. His cruelty is beyond anything.when another group of male lions takes over a pride, they kill all the cubs so they can sire their own with the lionesses.Female cubs stay with the group as they age.

I think lion is a disgrace to be your national symbol.

saay7

Blink:

Abrehet was just having fun I think, trying to make the point that the lioness is under appreciated while the lion gets all the accolades. There is some justification in this as, usually, the lioness hunts and eats last, after the lion and the cubs are fed. (There is actually a book called “Leaders Eat Last” by the Simon Sinek*: for review of the book, ask Beyan or Paulos.)

But of course a male lion is a a great hunter. He is just not a guerrilla fighter and can’t surprise his prey: dude got a huge mane that can’t be comouflaged. But he is powerful and strong and in your face: he can do what the lioness can’t: kill big prey like giraffes. And because he is often out on his own, as ሓላው ወሰን, to ensure the undemarcated border is not violated by intruders (you know, territorial integrity), he can’t always wait for the lioness to feed him. He HAS to hunt.

saay

* author of “Start With Why”, mandatory reading for B-schools and marketers, which should also be for our opposition leaders.

halafi mengedi

Saay and blink,
You are approaching kind of why i have caveats about the famous and much-liked song ‘lilo’ by engineer asghedom. In the song, the man lists, i think, 2 tasks for him and a laundry list of stuff for the woman. And people seem to love and fondly sing that damn song.
hm

blink

Dear saay
Thanks man , I asked somebody about the book you recommended and he said “ the book is valuable for guardians of society he continued to say that lions guard almost 260 km space and sometimes even larger. I feel terrible that you are not exploited as you should because our people could have benefited greatly. I intend to read the book in the coming one month .

Opposition leaders lack your determination and it is sad that they come and go .

Hope

Come on George:
“A man should know its limits”.
Courtesy of Prof Dr.Salih A A Younis(Hey SGJ: No intention to get attention form the Good Prof but stating tghe facts).
Don’t you agree,Georgio?
I don’t think you can challenge that “Dude” even if he “twists” or ” makes up” things…..not that I believe he twists or makes up things.
But ,my point is:
Can you refute what he factually enumerated and clarified/challenged point by point rather than “enkililo” or twisting things??
Some times, it is good to be reserved or to ‘shut up”.when the TRUTH is being exposed.

@george

Dear readers
Horrible! is the word that comes to mind when one reads yet another shallow article. What is the point of the article? To show that the Eritrean government lied. Or that Eritrea has not developed. By your own admission that no one really knows the real data about Eritrea .So it really it pointless. And who cares about a commission nobody heard of before. You should be outraged that the Eritrean government even responded. why waste money?
I do not know all the stuff about census but I do know that the absolute majority of the people that came to the state I live in as Eritreans are in fact are Ethiopians. I guess you want data right? Since you are “data driven”. how about the Austria Ambassador to Ethopia? The ambassador put the number 40%, would that work? and the funny thing is you dismiss that as some kind of conspiracy. In reality that is one of the easiest thing to verify.
The only thing that you will achieve, as displayed on the message board is you were able to get an Atta boy from the usual suspects, Unionist, Ethiopians. And it is not hard to impress them. Most Ethiopians are universally clueless about Eritrea. You know if you cant even know or acknowledge a simple and known massive problem, Ethiopians coming to USA pretending as Eritreans then all your self claimed ‘DATA DRIVEN’ one has to question your entire article.

saay7

Selam George:

I don’t know what you are mad about. I took two numbers, both given by the Government of Eritrea:

(1) The Eritrean resident population is 3.65 million
(2) Eritreans who live outside the country are “1 million strong.”

Then I did a simple math and said that means Eritreans who live in exile are 27% (1/3.65).

Remember, my source for both numbers is the Government of Eritrea so your talk about Ethiopians posing as Eritreans, Austrian ambassadors is irrelevant.

The point of the article was that despite the Gov of Eritrea’s 100-page self-appraisal, the reality is far different: it is not a country where there is rule of law, and extreme human rights violations occur every day. Or, to use a more memorable phrase by the CoIE:

Virtually everyone in Eritrea runs the risk of being arbitrarily arrested and detained: men and women, children and elders, political opponents and supporters of the regime, religious believers and atheists, high-ranking officials and ordinary citizens. Given the existence of a widespread network of spies in Eritrea, a word during a private conversation with friends or even within the family can be sufficient for somebody to be subject to arbitrary arrest, detention, torture and disappearance. Individuals are often detained because they are believed to have the intention to commit an offence or a ‘wrong’. The vast majority of individuals interviewed by the Commission had been incarcerated at one point in life. The few who had not, had relatives or friends held in detention.

I am pretty sure the above quote applies to you, in person. So, part of the purpose of the article is to help you stop living a lie.

saay

Mez

Dear @george,

1) What is your outlook on the current political dynamics in Eritrea, please?
2) do you personally believe decadal census is important for Eritrean?
3) why you think third countries are “clueless” about Eritrea? What makes Eritrea unique.

Thanks

@george

Dear Mez,
You are writing to a college drop out, so help me out. what do you mean “political dynamics” ? Our leaders are doing the best they can considering we are dealing with an 800 trillion monster called United Satan of America. And we have a welfare queen, Ethiopian, a nation with no confidence of it own. A nation that lives to mimic others with zero creativity. A nation of short sighted leaders who are unable to see the bigger picture. Hate driven.
It goes without saying we, Eritreans we could do more. We have to do more. Eritrea is truly unique. And wonderful. Now, remember you are also talking with a guy who grew up in Ethiopia.

Mez

Dear @George,

Thank you for your thought provoking reply.

1) you stated: “Our leaders are doing the best they can….”.
1.1) not really. No political opening for citizens in the country. No opinion flow regarding how the politics, the economy…of the country shall go ahead. An absolute power concentration in the governing party, and PIA. No participatory policy debate on vital country matters. Defacto state of emergency administration in the country. I can go on.
2) “….considering we are dealing with an 800 trillion monster …..”. From this phrase, it seems to me your outlook framing is skewed to the left. Nothing you can do. Suggestion: study the topic carefully and do best out of it for the nation and the people; Add also Europe, BRICS-Countries,GCC in your study list. STOP PRETENDING that you are fighting america; that make no sense at all.
3) regarding: “…welfare queen, Ethiopian….” your advice is well placed, and timely. I hope some body will listen over there.
4) “….Eritrea is truly unique. And wonderful….”. This statement: in what sense, and why?

The problem with regime supporters is that if they characterize ethiopia a welfare state, they think that eritreans are well off, eritrea is in a better position than ethiopia, and this will appease the eritrean people and they will continue to support the regime. If most refugees are said to be eritreans, they are ready to cover up by saying, on the contrary most of the refugees who come as eritreans are in actual fact ethiopians, without saying that there are not some ethiopians who may have exploited the eligibility of eritreans for refugee status.

This shows that they don’t accept eritrean refugees as eritreans anymore, a sad example being the infamous case when the eritrean regime said ‘some africans drowned in the med, sea’, when in actual fact it was about more than 300 eritrean refugees. There is also this unbelievable scenario that ethiopia and the usa entice eritreans to flee their country. When asked about the underage and unaccompanied children in ethiopian refugee camps, maybe you remember, regime supporters said that they were stolen children by ethiopia.

For every predicament eritreans face over the last 20 yrs or so, they blame ethiopia and the usa. After independence there was this rumour that some eritreans would identify themselves as ethiopians whenever they committed a crime of one sort or other, to keep the name of eritrea and eritreans, and much more that of the regime unblemished.

Regime supporters have vowed never to look inwards, because they have no explanation for what is happening inside eritrea, and they do not care, except for the survival of the regime. They never ask themselves why eritrea, a country of 3.5m is producing refugees in the first place, a large number at that for such a small country, and why there are more than 200K refugees in ethiopian alone, unless they say that they are not eritreans but ethiopians. Even the regime in asmara accepts that there are about 1m eritreans (27% of the population as saay said) outside the country, a number that is growing continuously.

The sad thing about regime supporters is that more than a quarter century and counting, and about 4000 young eritreans leaving the country every month (UN finding), they choose to live in denial, unrepentant, and by outsourcing all the blame to ethiopia and the usa.

Mez

Dear Horizon,

I am aware of the phenomena you discussed above. I am of the opinion, only time will disprove/discredit it. No need to debate on Ethiopian issue while the topic is on Eritrea.

Thanks

@geroge

Dear horizon
I found Ethiopians are universally ignorant about Eritrea. Their ignorance is equally matched by their ignorance about there own country. Let me explain and please pay attention. When something happens in Eritrea, for example, a war, every Eritrean family feels it. because we are small it hits home. But Ethiopian you got over a hundred million people you can spare like 120 k people with no problem like you did in the last war. If fact you have been doing to for the last 60 years it seems you have not learnt. Now let me get to my point The REFUGGE issue we Eritreans feel it like we feel the war. It hit home very quickly. Those eritreans that feely Eritrea is for the better life. And they are using you to go to EU, USA etc. they get automatic visa. I am sure that if tomorrow similar decree come to Ethiopians they will flood Eritrea. It is no brainer. Don’t flatter yourself. Your country is doing it to make money. You guys are expert at getting money from the master USA.

Arrogance is worse than ignorance, in my opinion. Wisdom can be achieved, but arrogance stays forever. The biggest problem with most regime supporters is that they have a very inflated idea about everything eritrean, and they are out of touch with the reality on the ground.

You say that as a small country you feel the effect of war, and yet the eritrean regime is a warmonger that fought wars with all its neighbors within few years of coming to power. A government that abhors wars does not militarized the country, and it does not keep about 10% of its population under arms, thus destroying the countries meagre economy.

The 120k and 19k are the two numbers you people pooled out with the help of the regime for propaganda reasons, and you can live with it. Yes, ethiopians have been fighting for the last sixty years, nevertheless, they never died fighting for foreigners in libya, somalia, ethiopia and now as mercenaries in yemen. There lies the difference.

You say you feel the refugee problem. Is that the reason you deny their existence once they cross the border? As much as the regime and its supporters are concerned eritreans who flee the country are economic migrants (hence, why the regime is after the 2% tax), and ethiopia being the gateway to the rest of the world is for economic purposes. One simple fact you fail to understand is that although you brainwash then with ethiopia being the enemy, still they say that the worst enemy is at home and they would rather risk their lives, and they choose to flee to ethiopia and then to the rest of the world than stay with the monster.

Even during the union, it was eritreans who were moving to the center and not ethiopians to the periphery. Ethiopians moving to and flooding eritrea is simply impossible. Everybody can see which direction ethiopians take when they leave their country. Eritrea never passes their mind, even during peace times.

The bitter reality about the usa is that two servants, the tplf government and the pfdj regime, wanted to provide their services, and the master chose tplf and dumped pfdj. The dia/pfdj regime is behaving like a woman that has been dumped, who could be extremely nasty.

You guys are experts in human trafficking. It is a big business and big income for regime officials and regime supporters in the country.

Look, what you are saying has been said by others before you, and nothing has changed in both countries up to now. Ethiopia is putting effort to move forward, you people have shackled eritrea and she cannot move, and life continues, until the dictator and its supporters are gone and the region finds its peace and harmony.

FishMilk

Hi @george. You are 100% correct! USAID just updated their fact sheet indicating that 7.9 million Ethiopians now need emergency food assistance. And, of course most of the money/gift in kind, to cover Ethiopia’s emergency food requirements, will come from the U.S.

FishMilk

Hi Horizon. Problem is that you label EVERYONE that is not an Ethiopian or a unionist as a PIA/PFDJ regime supporter. You are programmed to please….just like in the song Hotel California. On top of that, you,obviously have a problem with misinterpreting and misrepresenting anything dealing with numeric data.

saay7

FishMilk:

I heard some news about someone I know, sad news and I am looking for distraction, and music does it. And only because, ewae abziHkumo.

First, Kbrom took the lyrics of one of the greatest song writers, Neil Young, and gave it to some nobody I have never heard of. The lyrics were: “Old man, look at my life
I’m a lot like you were, Old man, look at my life, I’m a lot like you were.” Hade beleley.

Second, Chefena, used “psychedelic rock” as a pejorative. Really? The most revolutionary, experimental thing rock-n-roll every did from The Beatles Sgt Pepper to Jimi Hendrix to Pink Floyd? klte beleley.

Third, you FishMilk, are saying The Eagles said “programmed to please” in Hotel California. No, sir. It was “programmed to receive.” As in “relax, said the night man, we are programmed to receive; you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.”

Ok, I don’t feel better, but I feel distracted.

saay

FishMilk

Hi saa7: sorry about the bad news. Yeah, you are indeed right re the correct wording of Hotel California. It is great and somehow strange, how songs can cool and sooth the nerves and make one think, or even dream, of pleasant passages of time, though distant but never forgotten.

Remember, they can check out but they can’t leave… That is why there are 200K refugees in different refugee camps.
Yes, any numeric data that comes from the dictatorial regime, we leave to regime supporters to adapt it.
Where are the unionists? Nobody is interested in union anymore. It is a trick by the old guards who fought to leave and they are fighting to return through the backdoor.

FishMilk

Hi Horizon. Nobody is saying that Eritrea is paradiso these days while a number of you are asserting that Ethiopia is. By the way, even UNHCR acknowledges that Eritrean refugee camps in Ethiopia are largely empty. Eritreans are only transiting Ethiopia for greener pastures. Ethiopia has 7.9 million people that need emergency food assistance and extremely high unemployment rates; not exactly an terminal migration hotspot.

Nitricc

HI Fishmilk; I need your help in understanding the Ethiopian economy. The toothless Ethiopians and the gutless Eritreans will tell you that the Ethiopian economy is the fastest in the world and look how Ethiopians are getting wealthy and so on. on the same token, you hear 7 million, 10 million 20 million people starving and they need life saving interaction by the world community. I am having extremely hard times reconciling this two diverging events. my question is, how can you be the fastest growing economy in the world and at the same time millions of the countries citizens are starving to death? I am lost. can you help?

FishMilk

Hi Nitricc. What unionists, YG parrot heads and TPLF supporters don’t want to mention is that Ethiopia’s economic growth is only benefitting less than 10% of the countrys’ population. TPLF dictatorial economics are simply not sustainable over the long term.

Teodros Alem

Selam Nitricc
From my personal observation and the reality on the ground , u see a lot of growth on one hand and a lot of poverty on the other hand, it is a mixture of both. I don’t know what to call it. U see that everywhere.
I mean there is places and people that thier life style changed to the better and there is people degraded to far worse poverty than before.
The tplf supporters, they r clueless and don’t know what they talking about and i don’t think they care about ethiopian economy, they care about claiming the cradit of any positive development .

What ethiopia may give to eritreans, much more than anything else, it is security and peace of mind they can not find in dia/pfdj’s eritrea. They feel at ease in a refugee camp than back home in eritrea. In normal conditions, and if the regime is not the main enemy of the people, there is no comparison whatsoever between the two, i.e a refugee camp and home – sweet home. However humble it maybe, home is home, whenever there is security, even much more than living in a western capital, you call the green pasture. That is the main point that the regime and its supporters do not understand.

When you say refugee camps are emptying, remember, it is not because eritreans are returning home to their roots, because dia/pfdj care, on the contrary, they are being uprooted further away than ever before, with a little chance to return back, thus impoverishing eritrea from its human capital.

Ethiopia may not be a terminal migration hotspot like the developed countries of the west, even then, for eritreans she happens to be a better choice than pfdj’s eritrea until a better chance comes. Simply, you ignore and you justify the main cause of the problem, which is the dia/pfdj system of government, and you try to underestimate whatever ethiopia tries to do.

Ethiopia is a drought prone country, she is not a developed country yet to overcome the problem, and she is forced to requests food aid. You see, she cannot close roads as the pfdj did closing all roads to rural eritrea more than 25km from the capital, and says, there is no food shortage in eritrea, even if food import from sudan on which it depends is blocked. A neutral party cannot report the situation in rural eritrea.

The second largest world economy, china, says that there are about 30m chinese who live in extreme poverty, and she has a plan to eradicate poverty by 2020. Much more, a poor country like ethiopia has still a long way to go compared to china.

If dia/pfdj say that they have solved the problem of food shortage and stunted growth in eritrea, they will be kidding themselves and the world community, and not the eritrean people who live every day the reality on the ground.

@george

Hello mez,
wow! wow! did you say “STOP PRETENDING that you are fighting America? I got news for you and I am sorry I have to be the one to break it to you but Amrika, as my mom would say, have been fighting with ERITREA for the last 60+ years. Again, am sorry to be the bearer bad news. if fact they have been fighting everybody since like 400 years .sometimes with each other Last time I checked they are fighting like 10 countries. Now that is on the low end.
What else have you been missing? just ask away and I will do my best to update you. Free of charge, on the house.
Since you like giving a study list and I am in the giving mood. How about you study what happened to Venezuela when the flirt western style shmocracy and look where they are. Study specially the documentary by EVA GOLINGER . As me being lefty.
Me no socalista, me love Ron Paul former congressman from the great state of Texas. He is libertarian with a little bit of ultra nationalism.
adios

Mez

Dear @George,

The quote below is for you:
” Berhane G/Hiwet charge D’affaires Eritrean Embassy in Washington, DC said ( yesterday starting 2pm) The diplomatic relationship between Eritrea and USA almost restored. This is The fruit of persistence and determination of Eritrean people inside country and outside. Again, congratulations to the Eritrean ”

Source meskerem net

Thanksgiving

@george

dear Mez,
I respectfully disagree with you. American empire does not listen to no one. US know what they are doing. They concluded that the Eritreans are not budging and there puppet state Ethiopia is bleeding and about to die they need to act fast so they came to Eritrea.

Mez

Dear @George,
You said: “….empire does not listen to no one.”. Now you start talking. Correct. Americans pay attention and listen to everyone.

Thanks

Kbrom

Dear Kokob ወያ ጉዳይ ጀበናናስ ‘ኪቑነና ዝመጻ ተላጽየን ወጻ’ ኮይኑ ነገራ፤ after the reconstruction of Awate instead of being improved the link has become not functional.

Anyways Haile and all ኣፍቀርቲ ግጥሚ a promised here is another masterpiece from Beyene Hailemariam’s collection.

An ODE to the Admirals – It is the weekend so let us delve into PRINCIPIA – THE MOTION OF BODIES VOL.1
AN ODE TO NEWTON

…
Matters that vexed the minds of ancient seers,
And for our bearded doctors often led
To loud and vain contention, now are seen
In reason’s light, the clouds of ignorance
Dispelled at last by science, Those on whom
Delusion cast its gloomy pull of doubt,
Upborne now on the wings that genius lends,
May penetrate the mansions of the gods,
And scale the heights of heaven , O mortal men,
Arise And, casting off your earthly cares,
Learn ye the potency of heaven born mind,
Its thought and life far from the herd withdrawn!
…
…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3orqPl83Dk

I will address Saay7 one more time with my thoughts of how I think the solution to our Eritrea could be approached. Hilikhlakh slezbezHo, we can utilize the rubix cube algorithm approach. I am focusing on the JW, Afar and Kunama mentions of the Admirals article for my next input.

Here the analogy is as follows:
The 4 by 4 rubix cube is to 1991 as the 3 by 3 rubix cube is to 1961.

The equation is 2X + 17 = 27yrs and X is of course always:

Abbu AAshera Weapon X – Evolution
tSAtSE

blink

Dear Tsatse
That was super great work !!! Thanks for sharing.

blink

Dear Alex
The Ambassador shocked some old weyane goons, I am very proud of him too . Some opposition at this time are forced to come out from their small rooms and face the reality. The opposition must demand from Ethiopian leaders that EEBC is final .

FishMilk

Hi all. I might be wrong but I feel that opposition efforts are getting it all wrong in placing too much effort on shaming the PIA/PFDJ regime (by using everything and anything) with audiences outside of Eritrea and through institutions such as ACHPR and bodies such as the U.N. and AU. The people that really need to be reached are the significant percentage of Eritreans actually living in Eritrea that have regime neutrality, for they are the ones that have the highest chance of effecting regime change. In-county Eritreans with regime neutrality have long become distrustful of international organizations and institutions as they are simply seen as instruments of Ethiopia or the West, or having religious motivation. Opposition efforts need to be revised to bring awareness of in-country Eritreans with regime neutrality on: 1) Numbers and plight of Eritreans leaving the country, 2) Defection of PFDJ members, 3) Extrajudicial punishment/imprisonment, and 4) Lifestyle enjoyed by PFDJ hardliners and dependents. Again, abort the shotgun approach and instead use a rifle approach with the target being in-country Eritreans with regime neutrality.

saay7

Selamat FishMilk:

I don’t think it’s “either/or” but “and.”

Erena radio and Asenna (with varying degrees of penetration inside Eritrea) do a very good job at the 4 items you listed as priorities to reach the “regime neutral” Eritreans.

Meanwhile, since the lifeline of the regime are external institutions and governments who are lobbied by the GoE to normalize it, its important to show that notwithstanding all its claims, it is a serial violator of human rights and a predatory state.

saay

FishMilk

Hi saay7and thanks for the feedback for which I have no problem with. However, I really feel that efforts to reach Eritreans in-country who have regime neutrality are not really complimentary, well strategized and robust as they need to be. Why not open a thread and gather possible ideas amongst posters on how Eritreans in country might be better reached? I have a number of ideas and I am sure other creative minds here could also contribute.

blink

Dear FM
how do you reach a society that you intend to divide by religion and Ethnicity? The opposition leadership is so narrow minded people who stack there for years. You may know this , saay and SG are not in the leadership of any opposition figures what they do is keep the light for better times , I mean these who got money are not the once out there campaigning. Saay has been in this game of holding PFDJ by their nose for years and I guess I don’t understand the picture of this article. What’s your take about the picture??

FishMilk

Hi Blink. At least to me, the picutre reminds me of ceramics from Ayyubid Syria/Raqqa; an area linked to Harun al-Rashid.

woldeab

Dear Awatayans,

Three days ago in Columbus Ohio a 64 year old recent immigrant stabbed his wife, her mother, an 19 year old son and a daughter.

Saved from this carnage were one year old twins and a seven year old son who happened to have been in school.

Most people in Columbus and Central Ohio are heartbroken at the turn of events.

I hope this august college will take up the banner to at least help the young kids.

A couple of years ago, my mother’s aunt died at the age of 105 but due to lack of date of birth records, some family members suspect that she could have been older, maybe 110 some say. What was remarkable about her was that, she was physically robust, her memory including eye sight was sharp except that, in later years, her hearing wasn’t that great.

In our culture and tradition, old age is taken as a blessing and grace from God, regardless the physical condition of the person—whether the person is frail, weak or dependent on others. And of course, one of the rationale behind producing more children is, parents will have their adult children look after them when they get old. And the beauty of it is that, the adult children accept the rationale with grace. Celebration of life is one of our core values if you will.

As it happened, yesterday, I read a news article appeared on “New York Times” about a 104 years old Australian scientist who has flown to Bern, Switzerland not for a vacation but to have Euthanasia–assisted dying for it is not legal in Australia. What is so unique about the reason is that, he is not terminally ill or with a morbid medical condition but he says, he is tired of living a long life with a deteriorating physical condition.

He is a well accomplished Ecologist with multiple advanced degrees to his credit. Ecology, as a set of scientific discipline, one might argue that, it is the celebration of life where everyone of us including the 200 species of bacteria [15 trillion!] in our guts contribute to the thing we call organic dynamics of life. Life itself is a miracle where everyone of us defied the odds that had stuck against us to be here on Earth–from the improbable meeting of our parents [If my father had wed someone else instead of my mother, I wouldn’t be here including my grandfather…..] to the probability of one sperm cell out of the 100 million cells that had competed against to fertilize a single egg so that I could come to life [If any other sperm cell had out-competed the others and fertilized the egg, I wouldn’t be here.] But for a strange reason, our mind doesn’t think in those introspective terms, it focuses more on the rather platitudes and the mandanes in life. Affirmation to life is worth living.

MS

Selam Paul
I use the exact argument to tell people to chill out when I see them displaying arrogance. It is incredible that nature is best explained by probability starting at its sub-particle level. If we are to confine to the bulky stuff around us, just think about the probability that planet earth has struck!. Our galaxy is estimated to contain around 250 billion stars- up to 400 billion- and each of the stars has the possibility of being another solar system. We have been hunting for earth-like planets in this vast universe, millions of light years deep, and we could not find one yet. Indeed, we have come a long way, from the nuclear inferno of stars- from simple hydrogen/helium cycle to complex carbon molecules and all the way to life….from the beginning of life, the evolutionary path of natural selection, to the evolution of humans, to the variation that created your race, to the waves of migration that shaped human race to the specifics of how your mom and dad met, and then to the biological tango of sperms and eggs and the chance to be a viable embryo. It is amazing. Each of us is a universe to the trillions of microscopic bugs that live in us (may be we live in them) and keep us healthy or get us sick. And we, planet earth, are just another bug in the universe.
That’s why Alamin Abdulatiff sand ” ktmewt keleKa bmetro Aleba….”
I found this interesting; it is almost weekend:https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-ali-binazir/probability-being-born_b_877853.html

Paulos

Selam Muhamuday,

Beautiful, beautiful…..this is just beautiful! You have no idea how excited I am to see my proud Tegadalay brother gracing us with his deep thinker self. And thank you for the link.

They say, you can not understand a dog by staring at a duck for they are both completely different. Not so much diiferent though, they are made of identical stuff—made of the same sub-atomic particles. The same sub-atomic particles that make up everything around us including the stars and the universe in general.

The question is if course, where does the difference in variation start and why? Science can certainly offer some ideas to the question when and where but we need intuition and a leap of faith to find an answer to the question why.

As it happened, the duality or the mirror-symmetry as they call it, is not only confined to the variation and yet deeper similarities in species including in inanimate objects but in the abstract realm of mathematics as well.

For instance, Algebric Geometry and Symplectic Geometry are two completely different manifestations akin to the difference between a dog and a duck but at a deeper level, they both reflect the same and identical reality. It was this extraordinary revelation of nature that gave rise to the thing we call extra or hidden dimentions beyond and beside the four dimensions we are two familiar with [String Theory in Physics arose from this discovery in Mathematics.]

If at a deeper level, reality or if we call it virtual reality is fluctuations of energies as in virtual particles and anti-particles annihilate each other, why does the thing we call reality appear to us stable and constant then? I am getting carried away, please bear with me.

The late Stephen Hawking said, the thing we call reality is in fact not real but a sort of Hologram–a reflection of something authentic we have not yet understood. In fact, it was Aristotle circa 2000 years ago who spoke about the “Form” where the thing around us is just a reflection of it–way before Hawking.

If the [virtual] particle and anti-particle say, get separated from each other at the “Event Horizon”—the boundry around the “Black Holes” where not even light can escape from, and one particle gets sucked by the Black Hole and the anti-particle escapes to the outer space instead of colliding and annihilating, the particles cease to become virtual, they become real instead. And Hawking said, it is this continuous separation of the opposite particles at the event horizon [Event Horizon is not some sort of a wall but it is around us where light can not reach us—call it darkness if you will] that creates Holographic reality—we call the Universe. And with that deeper revelations, one can not afford to be aloof and withdrawn so to speak in a universe full of marvel and beauty not to mention a mystery.

MS

Ahlan Paulosay and Nitrickay
Thanks, both. Paul, a beautifully summarised pitch to history, mystery, philosophy, and the sciences. I happen to be an astrophysics buff, and Stephen Hawkin has been an inspiring figure for beating prognoses of his doctors. It is bad that he did not win the Nobel prize. Science is advancing faster than politicians and theologians could cope with. And string theory has become the latest theory in explaining the unity of everything, something that reconciles Einstines relativity theory with the chaotic quantum theory. As Trump would say, we will see. But the point is that this is the only place human race has. It is beautiful yet fragile. I enjoy watching earth “from space”, it is just majestic. You can’t beat the sight that Elon Musk’s Roadster brought from space as it was hurled into space from SpaceX rocket. Yet our president denies that planet earth is not in jeopardy due to ozone depletion!!
We have two sets of people that could jeopardize human race: the religious zealots and the equally fanatic ideologue leaders who deny our kids from the fruition of science. It is amazing conmen like trump to preach us about faith when he is accused by scores of women, and when he continues to disparage American institutions, such as the free press.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkgkThdzX-8

Ismail AA

Hayak Allah Ustaz MS,

“… this is the only place human race has”. This is very true for ordinary folks who worry about endangered, beautiful but fragile home of the living creatures as you have stated. Reading you along with Dr. Paulos’ impeccable take on the subject, I was reminded by how President of France, Macron, rhetorically summed up during his speech to the US Congress the importance of preserving Planet Earth when he stated that there is no a Planet B. When I recall the late Stephen Hawking’s warning that unless mankind discovers another habitable planet, I wonder whether mankind will have the luxury of time before greed at the expense of the less fortunate creatures would deplete the reasons that sustain our planet.

Paulos

Selam Kbur Haw Ismail AA,

To be honest, I find it sickening and absolutely boring to talk about politics 24/7 as in the Weyanes this and the Oromos that including about PFDJ for that matter. It is detrimental for the mind and brain including for the whole body. It is good to see us talk about music, arts, poetry and the sciences for a change. And it is good to see you back Sir! You’ve been greatly missed. Hope all is well with you.

MS

MarHaben Bek Ya Akhi AlQali
I concur with the reply that Paulosay has placed. As you know we have reached the summit of life, the rest is a down-hill journey. The thing is, hiking up the peak is hard and takes time. And there is the illusion that you have plenty of time, you feel invincible, and so on- that’s why the Tuigrignas said “Gobez lbu ab deretu.” But climbing downhill is fast. Gravity takes on, and the acceleration rate is exponential.
Well, this is not to say, Paul is my age, and certainly it is not to say I’m old, and it is not to imply you are old either. This is just to say that we might need to reframe the objective of our participation here. Mine will be as follows, unless Hayat Adem comes and knocks me off mi itinerary.
– Use the forum for information, gathering and shring
– use it as a social network to get in touch with deqi-Abeyti, ‘dehan’do Hadirkum? kemey kemey..weterefe…..’
– have fun; music and entertainment, some prayers, of course…. for God Sake, we have spent all of our time in debating and discussing issues we have no control on. I think major ideas need to be addressed through appropriately written and edited articles. That’s just a suggestion.
Lastly, I miss Kokhebay and I have missed your presence. Welcome back.

Paulos

May God bless you Muhamuday! I absolutely agree. Unless we have to, there is no reason to talk about politics as you have aptly put it on something that we don’t have control on. Let’s have fun and laugh!

MS

Ahlan Paulosay
I hope the Chief (SGJ) is away from his desk. He does not appreciate “NO-Boletika” attitude.

Paulos

Selam Muhamuday,

As you know, politics is the art of the possible where the improbable turns to probable and off balance is calibrated back to balance. But certainly, one needs craftsmanship, wisdom and intellect to make the true meaning of politics work.

When unnecessary emotions run amok and instead of reason, bickering floods the forum, it is easy to confuse it with politics when it is not. And one is better off discussing something else instead as in music and arts for instance.

Saleh Johar

Ahlan Mahmoud and Paulos,
Mahmuday, you are wrong. it’s not a correct presentation of my view on Boletika.

I do not have much regard for anyone who is soft on the PFDJ with the pretext that doing so is boletika. I do not believe resisting the PFDJ is politics, and certainly demanding justice is not boletika–it is a natural human reaction to do it, regardless of age, race, or wheteher one is climbing the evebrest, or the steps of his house… or going downhill 🙂

Paulos

Selam Ayay,

First, the video message is spot on. And glad the camera shot was wider as opposed to most of the videos which are zoomed-in pretty much to the person’s face only where it feels like the person is sticking out of a window. All the power to you Sir!

I say, going soft on PFDJ and talking about Botelika [as my grandmother used to call it] ad nauseam ከም ሓኪም ዝኣዘዘልካ are two different things. Wouldn’t you agree?

Saleh Johar

Hi Paulos,
Thank you. Now I need a survey. I am happy that you also know about photography. It was my main hobby when it was so expensive and I even had a dark room of my own. Also, ehhem, two awards from Kodak when they were the leaders holding computations and all. I say that because you are the first who mentioned wide-angle ! Now for the survey. A friend just told me I should be closer to the camera (telephoto lense!). I really do not like sticking my head through the window and would like to continue a wide angle though not panorama… is me and you or other people have another suggestion? I will see if there are other convincing views. Otherwise, no sticking my head out of the window 🙂

Paulos

Selam Ayay,

Here I am again about to rumble about a certain dude but hopefully you will find it something interesting in the end.

And as it happened, there was this German dude who was born into one of the wealthiest families in Europe of the 1900s but for a reason only known to him, he gave up all his inheritance and decided to lead a hermetic life.

One day, he said, he was reading a newspaper and something caught his eyes where one of the headlines read, “A judge asks for an artist to come and draw the case in the court where both attorneys of both sides couldn’t tell the whole story verbally [The case was about a person who got struck by a horse cart as the person was walking].” Well, that was not verbatim, but the whole idea of the judge’s demand nevertheless.

The German dude realized that, the language we use is incapable of expressing ideas and he concluded that, one of the cardinal problems in any society is lack of communication not because of a person’s inability to speak clearly and coherently but language is inherently deficient. He thereafter changed the whole concept and philosophy of language for good.

Ludwig Wittgenstein theorized that, we as species are visually-oriented beings and he went on to say that, language is a system of differences where by it conveys visually embeded concepts. Here ends my rumble. Thank you for your patience.

Three things caught my attention when I was watching your video: Background, foreground and the person in you. Books in the shelfs says more about the issue you were about to say; wider space on the foreground says that you’re in control and the much relaxed demeanor in you gives the impression to the viewer that you’re chatting as if the audience is in the room with you. And of course, wider angle shot captured the whole three in one. Wittgenstein was right all along, we are indeed visual-oriented beings.

Kim Hanna

Selam Saleh Johar,

I watched the video for few minutes looking at the format.
If this is the format you chose and are comfortable with it, (you look comfortable) the viewers and listeners will be fine with it…as it will come though.

However, the only feedback I have for you is this. The “graphics department” of Awate Forum is 2nd to none, so listen to them ( him/her) and you will not go wrong.

Mr. K.H

MS

Ahlan Abu-salaH
I commented on your video before I read this one. I hope you will get the gist of my often misunderstood joke. I do understand what you meant when you wrote the article. Sorry, for not presenting it in a better way.

Amanuel Hidrat

Merhaba Saleh,

Your statement “ I do not believe resisting the PFDJ is politics, and certainly demanding justice is not boletika” made me to say few words about the relationship of the two concepts “politics” and “justice”. Do you agree justice is an important moral and political concept? If it is so, then dispensing Justice do mean dispensing political justice.

Justice is a virtue of establishing rational order (Plato). Rational order do also mean rational political order. Justice is fairness involving equitable distribution (Aristotle). Politics is the process of adjudicating equitable distribution of power and resources. Justice is important utilities conducive to fostering and protecting human liberties (Mill). Human liberties do also include political liberties. Justice is a virtue whereby we respect others freedom (Kent). Freedom do also include political freedom. Justic is the voluntary agreements of social contracts (Hobbes). Social contracts do also include political contracts how society govern themselves. In short talking about justice is talking about fair politics. In other words we can not define one without the other. So can you see your statement within the context of my argument? Does it gives you sense with these conceptual definitions of justice I have stated in my argument?

Regards

Saleh Johar

Hi Emma,
Human beings knew justice before the concept of politics was developed to what we know it today. So, let’s leave Pluto and Aristotle aside for now. I am trying to stay in the common person’s ground and simplify things.

As you know, politics is presented and comminly understood to be a profession and it doesn’t have much regard in the minds of many. Therefore, I prefer to speak in a language that most people will feel at home with. Also, the demand of justice is a common persons issue and not limited to politicians which is another level. I can go around any corner of Eritrea and preach justice and surely everyone will understand my message—I don’t think explaining politics is that effective. But I agree with you, when we have the luxury of a just and mature governance, the scholars and the literate can discuss sophisticated concepts to their heart’s content.

My main message was and is, that we have unknowingly trivialized our demand for normalcy, and for justice, by presenting it as a day to day politics. So, if something can be presented in its most simple form, there is no law that forces us to make it harder to understand. I will never quote Aristotle or Pluto when I am talking to the common person but that is me. Not everybody sees it as I do.

Many people excuse their lack of commitments the struggle because they do not like Boletika. They cannot say that if they are challenged to say the same about justice.

You well know Emma when cadres used sophisticated concepts to preach emancipation of women and how that led to confusion and wasted energy. The common people were not hearing something they fully understand… or when some cadres taught Marxism as solely anti religion and anti-God, something that distanced believers, thus losing the benefit of the economic and other aspects of the lessons.

In short, I am saying our messages should be packaged in an effective and impactful manner. Once we are back in Eritrea, hopefully in a better situation, believe me the scholars will have a better platform in the country. For now, let’s not be bogged down of sophisticated messages that have less impact on the common person.

I agree with most of what you have said above and have gained a
few pointers as I was fishing for something I can utilize for my self.

The following statement however, I don’t think you have given it a thorough thought:
“…. for God Sake, we have spent all of our time in debating and discussing issues we have no control on.”
I believe, so long as we achieve full control of our respective individual selves, then we are and do take control to have effect on all the issues discussed here. Some short term some long term gains and or losses we do have control over. Think of those endowed with younger and vibrant energy, including due to chronological age, who are utilizing and will utilize in the future to have a more significant effect on the quality and quantity standards on future Eritrea. At the very least we can view our activity as brain storming sessions. I do understand though the context which your statement you are basing. For example a take away for me is to drop my laziness or other weaknesses and be courageous to present my input by writing an article– based on science and lots of fiber for a change.
For the month of May the theme song is this linear equation:
2X+ Saay’s 7 = 27 and Eritrean’s Core Value is the NEBARI value of X =
Abbu AAshera Weapon X – Evolution!

Which JHS did you attend? Apparently you either did not pay attention or the school is substandard maybe.
I will gladly tutor you. Here the givens are

Two Abbu AAsheras currently in the possession of iSEM un evolved.
Nay wuSHaTTe Saay’s 7 evolved.

goyta Brenn M”B”S ymeskir, efficacy is a lot more dependent or top heavy on the evolved 7 than Habatein AAsheras or roman numeral X deribo. Goyat Brenn beAl TTebay MaHmuday will tell you the two abbu Asheras are in the danga less, limb less toothless iSEM but we find solace in knowing the presence of Saay’s 7 as we commence the 27th yr.

something like that…
tSAtSE

saay7

TSatSe the Giant:

ብ ኣይ ሰም ኣይትምፃኣኒ! Au contraire, he is too evolved. He is a post-nationalist, shaking his head at the nationalist, an ideology born of European nationalism (where nation = state) and of unproven currency in multi-national states in anything but waging war.

saay

MS

Selam Harbegna Xaxe
You restated it well, and I don’t want to spoil it. By the way, I was thinking about issues such as the debate we have been having on the border conflict, which does not seem to go anywhere, and where we have no control over it. Of course, I’m speaking of myself and people like me. And what I was suggesting was exactly like what you have said at the end of your comment. Weighty matters like those issues need space and deep thought so that they could be presented in a well-developed article form. Please oil your AbuAsheraWeapon X-evolution and unleash it in an article form.

Nitricc

Your Majesty: there is a tragedy in human’s life. ” There are only three events in a person’s life; birth, life, and death; he is not conscious of being born, he dies in pain, and he forgets to live.” The moral of the story is people take life for granted and destruct by unnecessary events and they forget to live the life to the fullest. The presence of death should motivate you to do the greater good and to be virtuous. But many people are #$#$%^%.

saay7

Hala MaHmuday:

Ah, the universe. One can look at its vastness and humble oneself. One can also look at it and use its majesty to praise its creator (which is why the Quranic chapter “Al-raHman” is always set to images of the universe and nature with the verse ‘Which of the signs of your Lord will you deny?” as a repeated refrain. If you are a humanist, you can see yourself as stardust and sing, as John Lennon does in his instant karma:

Not sure if it is Bereket Mengisteab where in one of his songs says, “ኣደይ ክትወልድኒ ዘይተማኽርኒ….” and just recently John McCain made a poignant remark when he said, “I hate to leave this world.” And of course, sadly Steve Jobs with all his enormous wealth couldn’t stop the monster cell in his pancreas that eventually killed him. In the meantime, the rest of us take every breathing moment for granted…..Barbara Streisand’s “Being Alive” song comes to mind.

Kbrom

Dear Paulo

I will jump in here to save Sal before he tells you it was Zeineb Beshir or Tilahun Gessese as he has no clue about Tigrigna lyrics as opposed to the American songs. ኣደይ ክትወልድኒ is the great artist Tsehaytu Beraki’s song. You might also have heard about the masterpiece nook by ኣቤ ጉበኛ – ኣልወለድም! Sal might come back to you with the 1975 British horror film, and Stanley Price’s lyrics I don’t want to be born…

I lay here and wait it this virgin’s womb
My pleasure dwells right here within this tomb

I don’t want to be born
Don’t want to be born
Don’t want to be born

Intensive silence, all in blood red
A spawn of hell I am the evil dead

We have one song which beats all the above called ሰብ ምዃነይ by the legendary unsung celebrity Tewelde Reda! Please enjoy

This is Gold, as Amde would say it. Thank you Sir! Artists have a unique ability of seeing through the cleavages of life including the human condition as well. And our own Tsehaytu Beraki and Tewelde Reda are not exceptions either.

The same is true about the one and only, the man who lived way ahead of his time–Abie Gubegna who also gave us his magnum opus ኣልወለድም! I often wonder if he was influenced by the Existentialist thinkers as in Kierkegaard, Dostoyevsky, Sartre and Camus among others.

I remember reading somewhere I don’t know where about the final years of his life where it says, he went back to Ethiopia to be part of the 1974 revolution but later on he got disillusioned and was found dead at a certain Bar. It is really sad. Existentialists talk about how the choices we make in life define who we are and as strange turn of events would have them, Camus for instance, died in a car crash riding with his publisher when he made a last minute change of riding in a car instead of taking a train as the train ticket found in his pocket attested.

When I was in Addis a few months ago, tried to find a copy of the book and strange as it may sound, the new generation didn’t seem to know much about Gubegna. Hope one brings him back to life by reprinting more of his work.

Kaddis

Gash Paulos,
With the opening of several FM radios and the urge the city elites feel to counter the narrow nationalist narrative, stories of past authors, patriots etc is in big supply.
FYI, I feel sudden excitement when good people like you mention visiting Addis in the passing.
Huge respect for you all
Cheers,

Paulos

ሰላም ካዲስ,

Thank you for those kind words. If there is anything that I dread the most, it is the idea of coming back after visiting Addis. The city won’t let you leave for it is magical to say the least. I ask for forgiveness if I sound like a tourist advert. But that is the truth.

The city seems to be in a rush to catch up and pay back for a borrowed time where one tends to see it making up for a lost time instead. A capital city of the youth where one wonders, if the city is off limits for the elderly. One hardly sees the latter if any.

I get reminded by በኣሉ ግርማ’s book
ከ’ኣድማስ ባሻገር where two expats return back after years abroad and find themselves in a surreal world as they struggle to adjust as if they were never part if it. But after a week or so one feels completely at ease as I was.

As you pointed it out, I have watched a couple of programs on TV on Sunday mornings where the reporters discussed about books mostly on writers of the era of Romanticism as in Thomas Wentworth, Goethe among others with respect to Ethiopian writers with the same style and theme as well. And it was remarkable to see the young reporters as they were well informed about the subject matter. God bless!

Admassie

Selam Kbrom,
By chance, you gave me back a song I heard it few times while i was in highschool dacades ago (in the era of cassette record) but could not find it again till you brought it now. Thanks.

I do not know why, but the song was some how stuck to my memory. I only remember the melody and a few verses of the lyrics and I did not know the singer was the legendary Tewelde Reda, I am still fond of listening his ቆጽል ሞሞና፣ ሚለኑ፣ ሰላም ወዘተ.

Paulos in his comment below says ” Artists have a unique ability of seeing through the cleavages of life including the human condition as well” and I also add, that generation of Tewelde and others were very inspirational.

I have seen his interview some times ago together with his wife. He looks weak. That is ሰብ ምዃን!

However, let me lend some verses from Tewelde:

…ክኸይድ ናብ መዕረፊ
ጽቡቕ ታሪኹ እዩ
ምስጢሩ ተራፊ…

Muluqen has a lot to be remembered as one of the giants in Ethiopian music and here you are among many who is fond of his works.
Admassie A.

Kbrom

Dear Admassie

One of Tewelde Reda’s best/meaningful songs is ሽገይ ሃቡኒ give me back my independence/freedom, a song that reflects Eritrean resistance against Ethiopian annexation. Sad as it is, since the light of the torch Tewlde and others aspired to was fogged by its hijackers, he was not able to see Eritrea, since he left in the late 60’s.

I hope he will not pass away before having the chance to see again Asmara and visit ማትኣ።

saay7

Admassie:

There was another dude, Tamirat Mola, who had daddy and mommy issues too, right? I wake up humming his tune, some mornings, and I say “where did that come from?” Then I remember and I say, “oh, there is where it came from.”

saay

Admassie

Selam Saay

Talking of memory in relation to music, I have two vivid ones.

1. I am from a small town (a good urban node) on Gonder-Asmera road (this is before you became ተገንጣይ). My home town used to supply ማር፣ ቅቤ፣ ጤፍ ወዘተ to both Gonder and Asmera (ማን ያውቃል የአስመራ ሰዎች ለአባቴ ያልከፈላችሁት ዱቤ እኮ ይኖርባችሁ ይሆናል). In return we buy ደቀምሓረ ብስኩት፣ ባለ ባንዴራ ሽፋን ማስቲካ፣ ብይ ወዘተ (these were vital for the child of me).

In a given day there were at least six buses crossing to both directions. Buses such as ሓጅ ዓብዱ፣ ሰታዮ፣ ጎሽ ጎንደር፣ አጎናፍር. Entering to town, the buses were always in loudspeaker playing music. The favorite one was the bus coming from Asmera and used to arrive around 5pm. The sun goes far, temprature gets cooler and we children run accompanying the music and on a way picking new faces through the bus windows. Bereket, Tsehaytu, Tibereh and others used to glow our evenings which I still feel that sweet sensation very fresh.

2. As every mother does to her child at my age, my mothet says ” እስኪ ሮጥ ብለህ ዘይት አምጣልኝ” or “ሽንኩርት” or …. This is usually at the evening around 6፡30pm. I am usually glad for this task. Because, there is ኮረመለ ሞቕሽሽ (a candy bonus) from the shop keeper.
On the way to a shop, one can hear Tigrigna radio program coming loud from house holds and shops. Arriving at a shop, one can still hear the transmission and songs ናይ ኣካል ቪታሚን፣ ኣብ ከተማ ምጽዋዕ.

Still stuck to my memory, የእጣንና የነድ ሽታ; oiled and blackened iron sheet laminated counter taller than me; a scale on the top; የሐር ክር and other colorfull stuff stacked up on a shelf and መጀመሪያ ፍቕሪ – Tigrigna songs!!

Admassie A.

Abraham H.

Selam Admassie, thanks for this poetic messege of yours; I think one of the most impressive part of our childhood is that we have this power to appreciate and worship the tiny moments of happiness in our daily lives. For example, I would never forget how happy I was when I was given a pen flashlight as a kid.
Please enjoy your Muluqen:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUJ6uDp1wAU

Admassie

Selam Abraham,

Indeed, childhood is a pool of simple happiness. Even at the moment of desperation, there is laugh and playfulness. I used to be fascinated with the color of banana and orange, especially when piled together.

Sometimes I try to bring that moment by gazing on the fruits stacked up in the veranda of
አትክልት ቤት in Addis, but end up dry eyed.

Thank you for taking me back in time. I do know intimetly the small scale industries you mentioned growing up in Asmara. My father was in the transportation business and all those you mentioned, Agonafir, Haji Hasen and few others.

Sometimes we use to wonder around Asmara neighborhood going for soccer match. I think one afternoon we were going back home and we stumbled upon a couple who come from Keren I think, and they asked us for direction.

The location they were looking was familiar and we said, let’s go and we can show you. I don’t know if you know this, in Asmara, it was really common when you ask for direction and if you give some hint where the place is located (akraia, geza kenish, edaga Hamus etc), the children would walk you all the way to the neighborhood (some times good walk of an hour), some even even help you carry your load. So that afternoon, it was the three off us, took these couple to the destination they were looking.

When we got there, they gave us, the most, juiciest, plumiest and the most tasteful Zeitun (I don’t know the English name for it) fruits that I ever had in my life. Not one but 3 for each of us.

We were happy because, except belles, when it comes to fruit in Asmara, you are lucky if you can get a full of anything that you can’t share with your siblings (unless you are the only child). Three we were in heaven. The problem is we have to finish it before we get home because we will be in trouble:

1) either we will be accused of stealing
2) why we have accepted it in the first place (the expectation is, too do good without expecting anything in return). If you get blessing (mirqa) that’s the best it.

Thank you for sharing….

Berhe

Admassie

Selam Berhe

You too, thank you for sharing.
The part ” the expectation is, to do good without expecting anything in return” was then very true in our society. We were expected to learn a higher moral value and have a good manner. Society also had responsibility in molding children. Neighbors had the moral right to make us children behave.

ኤእ ወዲ ኣያ እከለ ይርኤካ’ለኹ ስራሕኻ። ዞም ብሩኻት ወለድኻ ክተጽርፎም!

Admassie A.

Berhe Y

Dear Admassie,

You know a lot of the things that we took for granted, as a society, actually I don’t think we appreciated it much. You know in North America and probably in Europe when you ask the younger generation to do anything, they expect something back. The whole culture of paying them money for doing chores, in my opinion install some selfish attitude. For example, we do not have series differences with my house, but I don’t think we agree on this. My opinion is, we should reward kids once in a while but not doing for basic necessary day to day activities they also benefit from, like helping cleaning the dish washer, etc. They eat, the use the kitchen so it should be part of the normal life “living”. But if they do well in their school, or sports, beyond the average expectation then, should be rewarded for really hard work.

So generally I relate the story to my daughter, and I think she does find the story a little be fascinating the things we use to do as children. For example, helping an elderly cross busy street is something you have to do and do not really need anyone to ask “”አደይ ዓባይ / አቦይ ዓቢ ከስግረኩም”.

Or when you travel on a bus “ኮፍ በሉ/በላ” is very obvious. And the blessing you get in return “መርዓካ የርእየኒ ፡ ወሊድካ ክበር ” is just priceless joy.

I really, really think, psychologically, we are a lot more healthy and stable than most in the western world. Until the trama our young are going through.

Berhe

Admassie

Selam Berhe,

You have a point that we had healthier and stable psychological power. The break down of families and the diminishing leverage power of a society over its children due to war, famine and chronic poverty as well as the notion every thing western is good and civilized, I think, created cultural and moral confusion in most urban areas in our region.

One important thing to add is sharing. People well-off had the humblness of sharing what they have in discreet.

My mother used to send me or my siblings to bring ኣጅቦ seasoned with ጨና ኣዳም, consealing with ዳንቴል, to some of our neighbors in late evening at the eve of new year, christmas or easter. Other times we bring portion of meat of በጊዕ or ጤል.
In return you get blessed, but most importantly, the happiness and gratefulness you see on the faces of these people instills the lesson in ones childhood concious how sharing is a noble deed to do.

Thanks.
Admassie A.

blink

Dear Admassie
The western culture is supreme to most , because all this we have this and that produces a mess . A child is born not to express his ideas and try things on his own way and here we are . In the 16 century probably all western countries were under the control of pray and pay tax to a corrupt church. Their free thinkers rebelled against control freak system and after painful journey here they are as a blessing as safety net of humanity. The Arabs pray 5 a day and their free thinkers with brilliant idea got death sentence just for lighting their society. Africa, ahmm what is good about African families? Yes yes they have many prophets. In Ethiopia and Eritrea we are having prophets too . So what is this psychological advantages you are referring to? Ok ok family, what kind of family? An authoritarianism in a family of 5 , a man world has all to blame. Let’s see what kind of family, a beaten wife , a humiliated daughter, ahmm what society are we speaking, if 50% our society is under horrible evil system What is left is 50% (25% good may be ) .. ok ok , respect the elders even if they are doing wrong, shut up 🤐, we need a rebellious children.

Admassie

Dear Blink

በሰላም ነው?ደሓንዶ ዓዲ?
It seems you are a little bit loud.

1. No one said western culture is bad in a nut shell. Equally, no one can claim every thing western is good. The same is also true to our culture and, as a matter of fact, to any ones culture.

2. My comment was specific to the role of family and society in raising children.

3. What is there to brag about that my days are out numbered?

A friend says ወርቅ ትሸናለህ? when ever he encounters such arrogancy to mean that you are not an exception, just like every one else, an infinitely less spot inside the infinite universe!

Admassie A.

Paulos

Selam Admassie,

Is an apple the same as civilization? Or is civilization the direct consequence of THE apple?

My question was actually the dumb one as opposed to your previous smart comments. My apologies.

The first Man was warned before he sucummbed to a temptation when he opted to eat the fruit instead, and found himself to be self-conscious about his mortal nature and his sense of reality as well. He had to sweat and toil to defy death henceforth. When he covered his face in shame, his partner was cursed to give birth in “Pain and Sorrow” where both refused to accept the verdict but took on a challenge to change their cruel and unbearable reality into an illusion. In civilization, they found an illusion and opted to ride on it till Kingdom comes.

Her descendents invented “Epidural Anaesthesia” for instance, to mitigate the curse so that, mothers would give birth with out pain. When the ultimate trophy of ignorance is a bliss, Man, however, insisted on going back to the fruit to acquire more knowledge when he is haunted by the prospect of death nonetheless.

In Jean-Paul Sartre’s novel, “Nausea,” we see the main character being attacked by a sudden awareness of his transient and superficial sense of existence when he found himself staring at the wooden chairs of the train. The chairs were comfy and shiny but it was all a smokescreen where in reality, they were trees before they were made into comfy chairs; and the trees were small seeds…..The superficial transformation of reality gave Man a meaning where it is in fact a civilization warped in a grand illusion.

Haile S.

Selam Paulos,
You don’t stop from touching interesting subjects that I enjoy a lot. But, by doing that you wake up the the sleeping ‘sinners’ like me. You said … “”When he covered his face in shame, his partner was cursed to give birth in “Pain and Sorrow” ….. Her descendents invented “Epidural Anaesthesia” for instance,””…. Well, her descendents have gone far discoving cloning, as you well know.
Imagine if Adam had resisted and avoided covering his face in shame, he wouldn’t have discovered his partner and reproduction could have been by cloning, for instance, thus avoiding us from being the descendants of incestuous relationship. Am I crossing the line? I apologize if it is perceived as such.

Paulos

Selam Hailat,

Glad you found it interesting. That is actually a valid point where incestuous relationship could be genetically detrimental where, for instance, cultures who intermarry with in close relatives certain medical conditions are more prevalent. For example, Tay-Sachs disease is more prevalent with in the Ashkenazi Jews where intermarriage between relatives was common.

The theory is pretty straight forward. We all have certain mutations in our body. And as much as a person shares the same genes, say, with his siblings, he shares the same mutation as well. Again, if the person shares certain amount of the same genes with his relatives, that means he shares the same amount and type of mutations as well. Now, suppose the person marries one of his relatives, that means, the fact that they both have the same mutations say, 25% each, the new born baby would have 50% of the mutation. If however, the person marries not related to him, there is no much mutation the baby would inherit.

The point you raised is rather interesting if in fact, the first, second or third generation of Adam and Eve intermarried among each other, one would be curious to know if there was any medical condition to that effect. But an astute and clever Awatista would say, hardly! Simply because with in three even twenty generations for that matter, letal mutations couldn’t have been accumulated.

Haile S.

Good morning Paulos,
Such interrogations come to my mind when I meet with people knowlegeable about the bible and the answer I get is: yes the children of Adam and Eve intermaried among each other. This is pecisely the reason we should not be too condemning on incestuous relationship as we appear to be the result of it. I don’t know if you know, in Akeleguzay there are condemned generations, እንጀን, originating from a sister and brother who had children together and as the result received a malediction from their mother not to intermingle with others except among themselves. No one knowingly marries with them and if one does, he become one of them. This practice waned during the Ghedli era, but I am sure there are elders who would inquire the absence of this ‘gene’ before allowing their children to marry someone. It is rediculous and that is part of the reason I brought you to this discussion.
Back to Genesis, Adam & Eve, ብርሃነመስቀል ተስፋማርያም in his book, ታሪኽ ወለዶ ህዝቢ ኤርትራ tried to discuss, if there were one Adam & one Eve or if God created many of each. He confirms that according to the bible there was one Adam & one Eve. But, he goes and cites ኢራስጦጠሊስ discussing in ኣንትሮሎጊያ ኣንትሮፖሊሞፊዝም and comes up with two terminologies (I am putting all wording as they appear in tigrigna in his book) to describe the creation of one Adam & one Eve (ሞነጊዛውያን) or many Adams and many Eves. (ፖሊጊዛውያን). There aren’t a lot of details to go in his book to go further. But I believe, you Paulos, the ኢራስጦጠሊስ-incarnate would be able to elaborate. May be the youtube guy Bokre that Abrehet gave us a link few weeks ago have treated these questions. I is not easy to sift through his numerous volumes, though. BTW, I have a lot to say about Bokre’s interpretation of religious symbols, but it will be for another time.

Paulos

Selam Hailat,

ኣሪስጦጦሊስ? ኣኽቢድካለይ ሃይላት ሓወይ.

I actually didn’t know about the extended family “እንጀን” in Akekeguzay but if anything, that kind of stereotypical ostracization is not uncommon where for instance, if there is a history of Leprosy or to some extent if there is a history of Vitiligo in the family, people arrogantly and ignorantly would shun them.

I think, the question should be, should there be a literal interpretation of Genesis? I tend to think that Genesis is a Myth of Creation at best where people find an answer for their existential conundrum if you will.

The Greeks, spectacularly invented the “Iliad and Odyssey” to find a meaning in life particularly during the dire epoch as in during “The Dark Ages.” The same can be said about the Nordic Mythology as in the Valhala. What is so curious is however, the epic narrative of Gilgamesh and its striking similarity with the Creation story in Genesis and Noah’s flood as well. What is even more curious is that the epic narrative of Gilgamesh was written way before the authors of Genesis. Mythology is so powerful psychological torque that more often than not it happens to be a pillar of a collective identity. If mythology is absurd, it is imperative nonetheless.

In an era where Darwinian theory of Evolution is supreme, to interpret Genesis literally is missing the whole point what the authors of Genesis intended to convey. As you know, the three main tenets in Evolution are: Common Descent, Variation and Mutation and they have gone through the test of time that, no one can dispute them otherwise.

I am not sure if you are familiar with the works of the ex-Nun turned Agnostic—Karen Armstrong where in her book, “Genesis,” she argues along those lines where “The Tree of Life”, “The Feud Between Cain and Abel” and the story of “Noah’s Flood” was meant to give humanity a moral guidance as opposed to establishing facts concerning the creation of the Universe or the conscious Man in it.

Haile S.

Paul,
ኣይበዝሓካን, you have at least the love of math and astronomy in common. Than you for mentioning KM, I heard about, now reason to know more about her. I agree on her and your interprations about the events. It is just ብሓሳብ ንሃርሞን ንኽትክቶን ኣየስእነና!
Best

Paulos

Hailat,

That woman fascinated me to the core and I have read all her books except her biographical take, “The Spiral Staircase.” My fav one is, “The Great Transformation: The Begining of Our Religious Traditions.” Absolutely brilliant book!

Admassie

Selam Paulos

Thank you. Now the dummy me can say something.
When that illusion creates a sense of arrogance and invicibility like Hitler and alike the world become victim. Hence, despite of all that super ego, they can not defy the finale fate of ካብ ኣዳም ጀሚሩ ብሞት ዕረፍትና like every one else. It is then ወርቅ ትሸናለህ?

Thank you again.
Admassie A.

Berhe Y

Dear Admassie and Blink,

The comment was made in reference to the general view of where the society is. For example, one can look at the statistics of “Mental health issue in Young adults” across many western countries and it has been on steady rise, to the point of becoming a crisis.

There are many drug related abuses, now children as young as 16 are being thought in school and other facilities how to provide “first aid on drug over does” and “kits” and distributed freely. Many young children are dying of overdose before the ambulance can get to them.

And the list goes on..now this may not be related to the culture but the way life is changing in the digital world but it makes you think how things are changing really fast.

Blink,
I think you have a very twisted view of our culture and our society. Thinking that all men abuse all women (50%) is totally not true. Every man love their mother dearly. Every man love their daughters dearly. Every now and there there is an martial issue between husband and wife, like any other society, but I think the way our society handles such dispute is much, much more civil and healthy for the well being of the society and everyone involved.

Berhe

blink

Dear admassie
I do that when I see deaf signs , that “out numbered” thing was just to tell your upbringing like that of Ajibo with chena are all but gone or near to death.

Nitricc

Hi Admassie: I am trying to follow and find the route from Gonder to Asmara. I find that from Addis to Asmara is through Compolocha, Dese then to Meqelle then to Adigrat or through Rama then to Asmara. Can you point it out the route from Gonder to Asmara? thanks.

# 2 and #3 are closely related as this clip from the movie Arachnophobia shows, humorously:

saay

Paulos

Sal,

Good one. Thanks for the joke. And here is a sort of puzzle about to die or not to die:

A man gets on a plane.
Mid-flight, he jumps of the plane.
Fortunately, he had a parachute on.
Unfortunately, he couldn’t open the parachute.
Fortunately, the ground was full of a stack of hay.
Unfortunately, a huge fork was sticking out of the hay.
Fortunately, he misses the fork.
Unfortunately……..

Haile S.

Selam Paulos,
This is a belated response to your comment on death. Reading your comment on assisted euthanasia and your mention of my favorite philosopher in your responses below reminded me of his book “Le Mauvais Demiurge” translated to english as ‘The Evil Demiurge’. I don’t have the english translation, so I translated a paragraph of his reflexion on suicide from that book. I am sure you will not take it at first degree. In fact the pleasure of reading Cioran is in going deep into the belly of thoughts with him, into the the abyss and then waking up and coming into reality. Cioran did not commit the absolute act, he apparently died of natural death, of Alzheimer. We can say nature prevented him from commiting the ultimate, the one that he interrogated about and advocated practically in all his books.

Here you go:
….. Waiting for death is to be subjected to it, to be reduced to a process, to surrender to an outcome that we don’t have control of its timing, modus operandi and decor. We are far away from the absolute act. There is nothing in common between obsession for suicide and a sentiment for death – I mean this constant profound feeling of ending oneself, of a fatality of perishing per se, inherent to a cosmic background, at the center of all forms of autodestruction, far beyond this self serving drama. Death is not always felt as a deliverance, but suicide always delivers: it is the sommum, the paroxysm of salvation. For our decency, we should be able to choose the day of our disparition. It is degrading to disappear like in dying. It is intolerable to be exposed to an end; an end that we can do nothing about, that watchs us, that knocks us, that precipitates us into the unspeakable. Hopefully, the day will come where natural death will be discredited, where catechism will be enriched with a new prayer “bestow us God, the favor and the force to end and the grace to efface ourselves on time”. The millenary conspiracy against suicide is the very cause of blockade and the sclerosis of societies. It belongs to us to know when to disappear on a good moment, to run joyfully towards our spectre. If we don’t disappear we deserve our humiliation. When we have exhausted our raison d’etre, it is odious to abstain from it. But it is the unworthiness of natural death that we see, from whatever side we examine it…..

Amanuel Hidrat

Selam Hailat,

Death is an end to life, and is the transformation from one organic matter to another. And yes : “ It is intolerable to be exposed to an end; an end that we can do nothing about, that watchs us, that knocks us, that precipitates us into the unspeakable.”

I have no clue. Only the survivors of the man’s family could give hints as to what made him to take this gruesome murder. It is a sad story.

Paulos

Selam Hailat,

Cioran, obviously made the idea of death, the center of his life where as you put it, he died of a natural cause instead. Equally, Camus, for instance famously said, “Death is the logical conclusion of the human condition” but in, “The Myth Of Sisyphus”, he went on to logically illustrate that, despite its absurdities, life is worth living to its fullest. I absolutely agree.

The central question is then, if the human body is designed in such a way to preserve itself at any cost, why does it give in, say, to a disease at some point? The controversial figure, a feminist and a well respected Biologist Barbara Ehrenreich says, she has a theory, a theory that challenges the long held belief in “Self Preservation.”

Her theory, is in fact profound based on evidence but the scientific community for a reason of its own is reluctant to embrace it. Again, I ask you to bear with me for we are going for a long ride before we get to the theory.

The immune system, as you know, functions in a sort of military command post where a hierarchy of rank and file in between. For instance, macrophages, the first-respondents if you will, are on a look out if anything that looks not only foreign but of an alien chemical composition lurks around, they would engulf it and when they digest and breakdown the foreign body, they present the fragmented body to the T-cells and B-cells and the T-cells accordingly multiply more in millions [as in new recruits] to attack the rest of the invaders. The B-cells on the other hand make more antibodies [these are specific proteins] designed to kill if the invaders are more sophisticated and complex. What is more interesting is that, the macrophages not only kill foreign bodies but rogue cells as well [as in normal cells turned into abnormal or cancer cells.]

But sometimes, the cancer cells break off from their original place and get into the blood and metastasis. And as it happened, Barbara Ehrenreich observed something extraordinary—the macrophages, instead of killing the cancer cells when the cancer cells move around, the macrophages let them pass to the extent of helping the cancer cells by clearing the way for them. All of a sudden, the macrophages “rebel” and become autonomous and independent as if they defy the orders of the command post. At that point, “Self Preservation” falls apart and the body seems to give in. Is death then not so much the result of cause and effect but when the body rebels against itself? She asks.

Haile S.

Selam Paulos,
Well said. You are dragging the subject to a fascinating field of biology where thinkers like this lady can contribute to developing concepts. I didn’t know this lady, but checked quickly after reading you and found out that she is quite a celebrity scientist. I am not sure if the scientific community is reluctant to embrace her theory. In general the active scientific community could be reluctant to adopting concept that is emanating from someone who is not in active dedicated research in the field and the theorem emited cannot be backed with experimentation or not enough data to corroborate. Having said that the role of macrophages as you mentioned is well know. Let alone cancer cells that evolve from own cells and capable of talking or developing quickly the language to talk to their comrade cells and soldiers (immune cells including macrophages), even foreign pathogens (microorganisms to parasites) have taken their time to learn to manipulate our body. The self-preservation is not absolute, it is exposed to challenges and it is when the balance is brocken we go down the slope.
Microorganisms to parasites play with us, try to outsmart us for continuity of their specie. They know where to put their money (their eggs). They know our orifices better than ourselves. They are not interested in our ears. It is just a cul-de-sac. On the contrary, talk about our respiratory tube and the foody goody tube, they are their gateways. Even they invaded our reproductive tubes to jump from gender to gender effortlessely and enjoy our differences. Our blood and lymph are their highways. Those pathogens that have evolved and got enough acquintance with our systems, respect us some how, they try to respect the traffic light. Those that come from elswhere who have not taken time to know us, get in hurry to arrive somewhere. They don’t follow the roads and the signals. They march straight (ዓይኒ የብለይ ስኒ የብለይ) and on the way demolish everything on theirway (the case with larva migrans).
Paul, I can continue simplifying and blabbering like that to explain my fascination with biology, but I need to stop.

Paulos

Selam Hailat,

You’re absolutely right. The micro world out-smarted us if not got into covenant with us where it was another celebrity-scientist Lynn Margulis [Evolutionary Biologist] who described the covenant—a Symbiosis. In fact, Lynn Margulis was the wife of the famous Astrophysicist Carl Sagan who popularized Astronomy way before Neil DeGrasse Tyson came into the scene.

And the classic symbiotic relationship between us and a bacteria is the relationship between an energy producing bacteria which is later known as Mitochondria and a multicellular organism as in us who offered the bacteria a protection in exchange for the energy we desperately needed. And as you know, there are on average 100 mitochondria in every cell in our body which are 15 trillion cells in total. The evidence for that is, the mitochondria has its own unique and specific DNA seperate from our DNA. When this is the most notable symbiotic relationship between us and an old bacteria, there are of course trillions bacteria in our guts as they help us digest say, ዓተር and ትምትሞ where the end product is methane as in ፈሲ 😂. We give them nutrients they need in exchange. If one passes a killer gas, blame it on the bacteria.

Tzigereda

Selam Saay7,

Thank you for the excellent article!

“Eritrea, which ratified the ACHPR in 1999 without reservations, just submitted its 1st periodic report, 17 years after its due date.”

“The Government of Eritrea is not new to ACHPR: it was a defendant in a complaint filed by an Eritrean citizen (Mussie Ephrem) and a colleague (Dr. Liesbeth Zegveld) from the Netherlands (250/02.) The complaint alleged that the State of Eritrea is in violation of Article 2 (enjoyment of rights and freedoms), 6 (liberty and security), 7(1) (right to trial and self-defense) and 9(2) (right to expression.)”

My questions are ( to Saay7 and all awatista):
How powerful is the ACHPR so that it can oblige the state members ( those who signed and ratified) to respect the rules, and court decisions?
What are the challenges, success stories of the ACHPR if any?
What can an african citizen expect from this org?

Thank you

iSem

H Tzigereda:
an over due comment from teg Tzigereda

I think it is also long over due for Africa to create its own ACC (African Criminal Court) to take the human traffickers, ethnic cleaners to them. Also AU has evolved from its old self who looked the other way when Dictators killed their people in the name of the stupid No interference. Indifference is now the motto of AU, but that is not enough and we should go to Interference when needed, but first Africa must create ADNU (African Democratic Nations Union) to isolate and shame the dictators who treat their people like slaves in ancient times
my two Nacfa

FishMilk

Hi Isem. Dangerous it is when Africans (to include Ethiopias and Eritreans) live abroad and become westernized, for it is only then, that they start to really speak of holding their country of origin (or another African country), accountable in terms of western democratic and human rights standards. ACHPR and the AU are simply corrupted institutions which are comprised of corrupted leadership and members. Have we forgotten Mugabe so quickly? There is unfortunately not a single country in Africa that has democracy near the stage/level of western countries. Sriving for basic fundamental human rights and due process should always be pursued but not westernized goals, standards and ways of living.

saay7

Selamat Tzigereda:

Thanks, Tzigereda! Did I mention that I am not a lawyer but I play one at awate? Yeah, Amde and I are lawyers.

You also know (I hope so, because I have said it 2,897 times) that I don’t criticize the PFDJ for being as bad as the rest of Africa; I only criticize it when it is even worse than the average for Africa.

With that caveat, the African Commission on Human and People’s Rights (ACHPR) has 6 instruments and one of these instruments has the authority to enforce binding decisions. (ACHPR only has advisory role.) And this instrument is called the African Court on Human and People’s Rights. And guess what? Only 24 African countries have signed and ratified it; 25 have signed but not ratified it; and 5 have neither signed nor ratified it.

Then what is one to make of the “Eritrea Overdue”? IF Eritea has submitted the first of the periodic report mandated the presumption is, as of now, Etirea has signed and ratified the ACHPR ahead of 25 African states who probably have not submit a periodic report prior to ratification. Eritrea either falls with the 24 signatories who have ratified more likely than with the 25 who have signed but not ratified and certainly with the 5 who have done neither. Then by the law of weighted averages Eritrea is in fact consistent with the average time of the length of time it took any of the African States to submit a report.

Further, in addition to the gain of knowing Eritrea’s 2015 correct population count and as a results a very close estimate projection to today’s, I thought earlier and even more so that it is also a significant gain or take away to witness Eritrea complied to an international body’s mandate by taking the initiative in reporting to the significant topic of “human and people’s rights” which it has been allergic to for a very long time.
Switching gears for a second. Let us consider a random algebraic equation like 2X + 5 = 25 it is of the form aX + b = C. In order to solve of the unknown X the given variables are the X coefficient a, and the constants b and c. If the solution to X is the real solution 10, we cannot strive for the solution X=10 by wishing and deluding our selves into seeing the constants a, b and c to be other integers other than a=2 and b=5 and c=15. We can not expect the real and desired solution of x=10 by wishing and changing the given parameters a, b and c to be 3, 8 and 12 respectively. We can’t insist X the solution to be 10 if we change in our minds and others the equation to this: 3X + 8 = 12.
For a very long time, my observations since 2002 as I stated earlier, has been and is this: Eritreans of both persuasions of the partisan divide are knowledgeable and in agreement with one another of what the solution is. Both are also cognizant of all the given variable parameters a,b and c. Yet both insist on failing to define the entire equation miserably.
In my next input I shall enumerate several variables and dispute your assertion of their values are by your explicit and implicit statements. Perhaps the madness is an optimizing method beyond my comprehension, but for now if I know the real solution is X=10 then I cannot insist to change the given parameters other than what they are unless I desire a solution other than X=10… will be backed in a few… for now X=10 is the solution to the CORE ERITREAN VALUE which we should start with and is:

Either I wasn’t clear or you speed-read me but there is a difference between the African Commision for Human and People’s Rights (ACHPR) and the African Court for Human and People’s Rights. Both are instruments of the African Charter. While Eritrea has signed and ratified the Commission , it has neither signed nor ratified the Court.. And in the category of NEITHER signed NOR ratified, there are only five nations and Eritrea is one of them. And the other four are either new (South Sudan), not recognized as a country (Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic), or too tiny to matter (Cape Verde and Sao Tome.) And the context was to answer Tzigereda’s question of what next? And my answer is probably nothing since Eritrea didn’t ratify the African Court, you can’t open a case there (and if you open a case there, well, they have cases pending for 10 years.)

The gist of the “Overdue” article was to compare what the Government of Eritrea claims and what it practices in the area of human rights. There is such a huge gap between what it claims and what it actually does, it requires helicopters and mules to ride it (like the Grand Canyon.) The population (census) was one such example of a gap: it says (in its National Charter) that it respects the right of people to information, and it doesn’t give information as basic as census. You know which countries don’t conduct census? Lebanon, Afghanistan…countries torn by civil war.

Both the word commission and court begin with the letter c. Is it an African shortcoming not to realize the acronyms would be the same. My confusion to stop reading… I actually caught it just right before your response. Fair is fair… I stand corrected. Thanks.

tSAtSE

saay7

Hey tSatSe the giant:

Just to add to our discussion:

The Africa Charter has several instruments and protocols, four of which are BINDING dealing with 1. refugees, 2. women, 3 children and 4. democracy. Eritrea is one of the 9 states which has not ratified “more than three instruments.”

So what’s the big deal? Nothing other than what the government says this about itself in the self-appraisal (paragraph 21): “In general, international and regional treaties and conventions are taken seriously and pursued rigorously.” And it’s telling this to the same body that knows for a fact this is not the case.

Thanks, point well taken. However, I believe there are permutations and combinations that we can choose from a set and subsets from in deploying resources for better efficacy.
You are right when you said to FishMilk that it is not a case this or that rather it is a case of this and that. I am of the opinion thou, nCHOOSEr approach when the Eritrean opposition deploys its resources. For instance after reading Johathan Eig’s ALI, by coincidence only a couple of weeks ago finishing the 604 pages autobiography, I gained some insights on Eritrea’s Jehova Witness conscientious objectors clash with the State of Eritrea. I am looking into how the JWs in other States have fared during times of war currently. Also, how did the Eritrea’s and Ethiopia’s Jehova Witnesses deal with the matter in a very militarized Ethiopia of DERG prior to 1991? When including such as exhibits for Eritrean Opposition arguments due to the freedom of worship transgression fit, does the opposition thoroughly considered all their variables and effects on the overall equation? For me it is akin to when gay and lesbian civil rights advocates equate their plight with that of Black Civil Rights movement. Though both a case of civil liberties the two oppressed are by far not equal at all. Whereas all societies shun specific life stile, in the case of racism a specific race oppressed, segregated and impoverished ALL aspects of life of the black race. … ….
Will be backed after a little while with a better coherent construct soon. For now I am stating there is a more efficacious and middle ground between FishMilk and your “this and that” and more as opposed to “this or that” approaches. I strongly believe the throwing everything including the kitchen sink at one another by both sides of the Eritrean bipartisanship is nothing more than a snail rate nihilism. Though these folks are loud they are in fact in the minority as compared to Eritreans of both persuasions, i,e pro and opp, who are very cognizant of the solution and are in agreement as to what it is, as I have said earlier, but are lacking effective catalyst activists to honestly and with academic truth integrity capable to present the true picture of the entire equation. Will be more concise I promise later. In the mean time think of why the Afar and Kunama mentions is not settling will with yours truly. I anticipate many to quickly judge it as the PFDJ or apologist theme when I present it, but I am convinced and confident with my ability to differentiate it as unique. later….

nCHOOSEr = n! / (r! * (n-r)!) a very large quantity for a random 57choose6 of your 57 list. No, did not win the lottery. Well
May 24 around the corner lets try 27CHOOSE10 = 27! / (10! * 17!) nostalgia of school dayzz Combinatorics class, I suppose. No sweat! The equation is still 2X + Saay’s 7 = 27yrs with X =

Abbu AAshera Weapon X – Evolution
tSAtSE

saay7

tSatSe the giant:

Can’t wait to hear your assessment of the claims by Kunama and Afar that they are ethnically targeted. I didn’t include it in my article for reasons I gave.

What is that the uae trying to do by occupying the very strategic yemeni island of socotra at the entrance to the red sea exploiting the security vacuum? It declares that it has leased the island for 99 yrs (a unilateral decision by uae, i think). Some say that it wants to control the trade route. The uae flag is said to be on buildings and streets, and the yemenis are angry and demonstrating.

This small gulf state seems to be drunk with petrodollars and it is erasing all international laws and norms, and behaves as a pirate. The somalis and djiboutians have reacted to uae’s behavior in their respective countries. What do eritreans think of the 30 yrs faustian contract with them?

Paulos

No new comments? Where is everybody?

Selamawi

Selamat Awatistas,
Now I know for a fact that everyone at Awate.com is unemployed. You guys spent three days arguing what Eritrea’s population is. That is three days of your life that you will never be able to get back!!!! Good lord!

Berhe Y

Hi Selamawi,

Obviusly you don’t understand the consequence the population decline or under population the country through, because of the systemic and intentional policy of IA and his government.

For you it’s just three days of wasted time, but for some one like saay, it’s labor of days and weeks of time spend sifting through the government document and many hours spend searching and researching to highlight and alert the people the long term effects.

This document and labor saay put deserves not only 3 days but years and years of time and resources to reverse the trend.

You should be shocked why the PFDJ government of IA, tool 27 years, I repeat 27 years without providing population census document.

Berhe

saay7

Berhe Y:

There are some metrics that the GoE is very proud of and features all the time, and they are featured in the report it submitted to the African Commission:

There have been quite a few Alnahda articles on these metrics, with the general theme being, “if true, it is impressive.” (See also: “When Even Good News Is Given A Shrug”, 2014). But all these numbers are ratios, with denominator always being a census. For example, the adult literacy rate is the over-15-year-olds who can read and write (as numerator) and all over-15-year-olds in the country (as the denominator.) If you don’t have an accurate census (or scientific surveys) then none of the numbers mean anything and the celebration is for nothing but self-deception. In fact, the CoIE said pretty much said this: census has not been done and access not granted therefore it is just unaudited self-reporting. If you are PFDJ and you don’t feel accountable to anyone (least of all to those who say, “we trust you! you don’t have to tell us anything!”) then you are not under any pressure to report, and importantly, to learn from your mistakes.

saay

Haile Zeru

Hi SAAY,

You did a superb job!!!

Here are some of my recollection from past decade. I was just going to post them at the top but they ended up here.

I dislike ERITV. I hate it so much that in 10 plus years I
was in Eritrea, the times I watched it are countable. That is very few times. I agree 100% with Amanuel Sahle’s Brother, who said: “ Kab TV Erre MsmaE fornello msHan yHaysh”.

One day I came home and as I sat on the chair, someone
turned on the television. TV ERRE
channel. The first thing that came on was the exact thing that turns me off.
The NEWs… with big letters scrolling the screen . “The source of Truth”. Mind
you it is not true, accurate reporting. ERI-TV claims to be the source of Truth. Anyway,
I was patient, I did not demand or jumped myself to change the channel (….yes I
had a satellite dish). There were guests and I did not want to be perceived as bad
mannered or worse arrogant.

Unfortunately the usual news followed, President Issayas
did this…, President Issayas said that… And then the reporting continued about Issayas talking (lecturing) the town folks about …I do not remember what… I just was not in the mood to hear the guy. But then, when given chance people started asking him questions. The one that I do not forget till today and may be forever is a woman, in her middle age, I suppose in her late thirties stood up to ask a question. The question was simple and profound. I will paraphrase what I remember.

..Our men are always away. Two, three years without
returning home and when they come they go back after very short time with us. Is there a solution to have
more home visit by the men to their families?

Now, please (this is not to SAAY) stay silent and reflect for few seconds if not minutes. What is this woman asking. You will say simple she needs sex…. If that is your answer you are a little bit better than what Issayas said but still stupid answer.

The woman is saying
our biological clock is ticking away, we cannot bear children while the men are always and constantly away.

Following is a small exercise (to whom it may concern) Obviously not to SAAY

If you agree with my interpretation of the question ….
what would a President’s answer be? Try answering, it is just an exercise. Consider yourself the PRESIDENT.… If you blow it.. it is still OK. you do not need to tell us.

End of exercise.

Now what answer did
Issayas give to the question? Still I will paraphrase him… I already indicated I was not taking notes.

He said, basically, he does not see the difference between
them (the men) being in the arm and constantly away from home and in home with
their families ( Ane fliliyu aireAyenin u).

OK, you will not believe me, I agree you would not expect
this kind of answer from a President. A President cannot be this stupid or act
this stupid. (Abzi haliyom abti Ane fililiyu aireAyenin)

GOE has minute detail about every citizen in the country.
They know exactly how many people are in Eritrea. No doubt about that. The Schools the Kebele
(Mimihidar), The hospitals…etc.. every administrative entity is overstressed to produce tones of stats. I was going to one high school for private business. The secretary was always stressed to produce all kinds of stats.

DIA and company followed and still following a genocidal
policy that decimates the Eritrean people. They say Weyane is reckless. They are using the Ethiopian people as cannon fodders.

But the Eritrean people did not increase because of what
HGDEF did in the past 25 years. Now it is shameful, if not criminal to show the numbers. It does not show their (HGDEF)
strength. It shows the disaster they caused. That GOE says the number of Eritrean residents is “approximately…” is laughable to they the least.

HGDEF Trolls will mention one thousand things to cloud
things but how long and how far can you go doing these?… numbers are not important, population size is not important etc…

My guess is, the Eritrean people residing in the country are less than 3 million. And HGDEF is ashamed to show it. Because it says volumes about its policies. Too many
skeletons in the closet….

said

Selam Zerue,
The only sadnesses that are dangerous and unhealthy are the ones that we carry around in public in order to drown them out with the noise; like diseases that are treated superficially and foolishly, they just withdraw and after a short interval break out again all the more terribly; and gather inside us and are life, are life that is unlived, rejected, lost, life that we can die of.— Rainer Maria Rilke
AS always I enjoy reading your first hand reality and thoughtful reflection , Nobody can directly perceive reality, you seems to do,All our perceptions are warped by mental filters that come from indoctrinations by parents, religions, schools, indoctrination political ideology, in Eritrea where facts don’t matter, because humans are irrational and gullible, one would have hope newly independent country and with energetic Eritrean youth Generally speaking , history is the best meter of days to come. Yet, with Eritrean youth their lives being shattered , there is always room and hope for growth as experience can provide insight into better times and places if only the travel is one of honest search. Although hope springs eternal, having apparently rejected, in its entirety, the tradition and our culture from which we has to come, it would appear that the road is longway to go.

Haile Zeru

Selam Said,

Interesting observation Said.

I like to add though, the question the woman asked is bone chilling.
….DIA shrugged it off knowingly, because it exposes his folly. The bad and single handed decisions that he took were/are exposing the society to an existential problem/debacle at the nucleus (family) level.

Mez

Dear Selamawi,

What is your message?

Thanks

Saleh Johar

Selamawit,
How about you? Are you unemployed to spend three days reading, then spend the fourth day to write about it in your earth-breaking findings in two lines? Ezi khulu gaAat of four days for two lines!

Mez

Dear Hope,

Decadal Census is:
1) much larger (horizontal &vertical), than counting number of peoples,

2) a current census is an indicator ( in all aspects) for the comming ten years–and the cycle continues as long as the nation is there, and people live in its boundaries. It is a perpetual dynamics,

3) it allows you to do projection for policy purposes,

4) a nation without proper census is a “quazi-nation”; it is very dangerous.

Think about it.

Thanks

Nitricc

Hi Mez; you said “4) a nation without proper census is a “quazi-nation”; it is very dangerous.” Really? Now I am tend to believe that as the saying goes …..
“I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been
educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly.”

Mez

Dear Nitricc,

Good observations.

Welcome back.

Thanks1

Hope

Mez:
Am with U !
Am.not talking about Science or Scientific Statistics here…. but common sense.

U believe the ZPFDJ Gov doesn’t have any clue about the Eri Pop size?
Semere’s ” assumption ” is close to ” accurate”!
The PFDJ might even have the ” accurate # of the escapees ,not just the current Eri Resident Pop.

It is ok to argue for the sake of arguement or to pick on the PFDJ.

But my point is :
What is the point of wasting your time to debate on such issues of ” less significance” for now rather than focusing on the Urgent matters?

May be it is better to debate on as to why the PFDJ is not ” honest” or hiding things or manipulating figures and data or as to why it doesn’t disclose its policies if any or the budget ,etc..,,,,which are still non-essential to me compared to the bigger pic as to why the PFDJ is dragging us on the same status quo and keeping us on darkness.

We need to focus more and spend the more than 70% of our time we are spending on the the PFDJ’s Census saga. …..on /as to why/how:
A)Why have we failed collectively as Opposition ?

B)What can we and have we learned from our past and current mistakes and failures?

C)How can we get better organized and united so as to CHALLENGE the same Regime so that it will and should do better on all the issues we have been debating ” fruitlessly” including to come up with an honest and latest Eri Resident Population size.
The Eri Diaspora Community should develop a Neutral and an Independent Well Organized,a well structured ,a well centralized,a well united and a serious and functional ” Watch Dog” Group from all walks of life to challenge brutally the One-man system as we have all the means and resources to do so ….minus the needed sacrifice and commitment!
Throwing Articles here and there and shouting here and there ain’t going to solve our problems to bring down the well organized and the well equipped Regime in all aspects.
Just my naive thought!

To be fair, we can’t fault him for serving the King and the Dergue in different capacities for he was an indispensable technocrat in his own right. But one would be curious to know if he could have claimed that we are one people, say, when he joined EPLF or right after independence.

Kbrom

Hi all

Ok, things are getting heat; for those who can’t stand the heat, but want to stay in the kitchen lets break for the time being from ዓጺቕ ቦለቲካ and discuss about some light issues. Hope this will bring back iSEM, Kokobay, hm, Aya Haile, Professor wedi Hdrat, ABshay Abrehet et al.

I love when animals talk and more so when they utter proverbs, idioms even aphorism like the one below observed by እንቁሮዖብ። I will share my favourite four; please do contribute your favourite three animal proverbs. Andiamo!

Hi all. It is simply not practical, for Eritrea or any other country for that matter, to undertake a census while it is being illegally occupied and under war footing. Please do not forget that scaled border fighting between Ethiopia and Eritrea, occurred just a couple of years ago in 2016. However, by simply taking the number of newborns in Eritrea during 2016 and 2017, it is safe through WHO population extrapolation technique, to assume that Eritrea’s population is now AT LEAST 5.15 million. On top of that and contrary to YG’s false alarm bell, Ertrea’s highland population has steadily, albeit at a reduced rate, increased over the past two decades.

Peace!

Hi FishMilk,

Sarcasm? It is not only practical for Eritrea to undertake a census and develop strategies based on accurate data, but also illogical and shameful to use border disputes as an excuse to normalize slavery and human extinction.

Today is a free press day, and Eritrea ranked 179 out of 180 countries. Is it simply because not practical for Eritrea to have a free press while it is being illegally occupied?

Peace!

FishMilk

Hi Peace! You are extremely naive not to understand that there is a clear strategic military risk, for Eritrea to undertake a census exercise while a large percentage of its population has been mobilized for military purposes and it remains illegally occupied and in a state of war readiness. People often forget that over the past 10 years that Ethiopia has launched an aerial offensive on Eritrea and several military offensives on the border. Also, people have to understand that the PFDJ does in fact have a good understanding of country population dynamics, though for self-serving reasons, it does not wish to release realistic/credible figures. You mention Eritrea’s 179th tank on RSF’s list. Do you believe that Ethiopia, with all its self-professed media freedom, is that much better as it ranked 150th on the same list? Please do not confuse the issue of bad Eritrean governance with Ethiopia’s illegal occupation of Eritrean land and the real military threat that Ethiopia poses to Eritrea!

blink

Dear FM
I thought with better informed society Eritrea could have challenged weyane better . Don’t you think the national security of Eritrea is more at risk when it’s able part of it’s society migrate ? I mean you can’t just defend the failures that are open for our eyes.

informed society is always better to face uncertainty than a humiliated society.

FishMilk

Hi Blink. Yes. I agree with you 100%. Migration is a huge issue, especially when it causes a Brain Drain of your nations’ most gifted and educated minds.

Peace!

Dear FishMilk,

The major flaw with your argument is it legitimizes PFDJ and its irresponsible and destructive policies, and speaking of strategic military risk, I am assuming you are being sarcastic because there is no strategic military stupidity other than waging war with all your neighbors and then throw your best generals in jail to die. With that, the only narrative left to discuss is ውሃ ቅዳ ውሃ መልስ argument: TPLF did that but TPLF bombed us…

If you think Eritreans fought and died for just to better than TPLF lead Ethiopia and to beat only North Korea on free press and human rights, it is really frightening.

Peace!

FishMilk

Hi Peace! Unfortunately, Ethiopia’s illegal occupation of Badme, and 2) its offensive military actions, do in fact justify a number (not all) of actions taken by PIA/PFDJ. PIA/PFDJ’s dictatorial bad governance (I.e. extrajudicial punishment, no free press, no constitution, lack of due proces, etc) are a completely different kettle of fish; they are not justified and should not be mixed with the fact that Ethiopia (not other neighboring countries) is illegally occupying Eritrea land and has continued to launch military offensives. On the note of census exercise sensitivity re military strategic interest, census results could for example infer that Eritrea’s troup numbers are over exaggerated.

Peace!

Hi FishMilk,

“Separately, PIA/PFDJ’s dictatorial bad governance (I.e. extrajudicial punishment, no free press, no constitution, lack of due proces, etc) are a completely different kettle of fish; they are not justified and should not be mixed with the fact that Ethiopia (not other neighboring countries) is illegally occupying Eritrean land and has continued to launch military offensives.” You are entitled to your opinion, and you should also understand other people, too, have their opinion.

Peace!

FishMilk

Hi Peace! No problems as we are in agreement that others opinions are also important.

Peace!

FishMilk,

Of course! Don’t you like to see people marching on ጎደና ሓርነት seeking the right to vote, the right to freedom of speech, the right to… well, I do, sir.

Peace!

FishMilk

Hi Peace! Just curious as to what population figure you would put down for Badme, given the TPLF’s demand for border implementation talks, as a result of how all those people in effected villages will be dealt with. Maybe we can ask Ethiopia to undertake a census exercise for Badme.

Natom Habom

selam peace
the death of the 19000 that gave their live wasn t an escuse ,human right
always try to deflect the attention by the same propaganda ,why do eritrea need high military presence ? for show ??
they are trying to give the dead woyane the upper hand by economic sanction ,arm embargo and isolation,and yet the twiste libi could not do anythink,by the way we getting suprise after suprise how the very tigray are suffering in silent,
shouldn t clean their house first instead of talking about eritrea

my dear peace
funny ,the jock was a jews jock with israeli genearl
plagiarism is normal in your homeland I don t judge you
with all the eritrean song and eplf picture you guys use without a shame have no limits

Peace!

ሰላም ናቶም ሃቦም,

Indeed very funny joke, and at the same time though, that was the genuine attitude of PFDJ when it was lethal juvenile in the early nineties shortly before waging war with Yemen, Sudan, Dijubouti, Ethiopia, and intimidating France (ፈረንሳውያን ኢድኩም ኣክቡ) and the Gulf States. And now, twenty years later, matured PFDJ is eating its own people and turned the country into playground for proxy wars just to survive.

Peace!

Natom Habom

selam peace
I heard about the so called other skirmish that you people keep
using to vilifie eritrea while those countries are silent and cannot speak for themselves but the new think now we have FRANCE
that is new
its sound the manufacturer of lies of makele is out of work this time
proxy war ?? whitin Eritrea ???
really , ( qurub hifer ) ethnic violence is happening in your own country,
and who is eating his own people if it s not woyane ,lessen to tigrayan
around calling inside and outside ethiopia accusing the regime for lying ,using violence and impoverishing the hole tigray society .young girls abused by the army and keeping their land a war zone,as a result no investment ,just lying for something they never accomplish ,
who is eating who my friend ??
have some humility ,take out the trunk that is in your eyes first please

Paulos

Selam My Good People,

Hope you will find this funny, if not offer a courtesy laugh at least.

How is that denying the population basic freedom of information which in the Human Rights you mentioned is elaborated as the right to access information held by public bodies. DHS including what you described as ‘non-essential tangential issue’ i.e. population is an integral part of the fundamental right of freedom of information, as recognized by Resolution 59 of the UN General Assembly adopted in 1946, as well as by Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948), which states that the fundamental right of freedom of expression encompasses the freedom to “to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers”.

I wonder how you would expect the information of, say for example the number of prisoners and their due process of law፥ from a government that denies you the number of population which includes you and me.

Hiding the number of population is not a ‘PFDJ nonessential mistakes’ as you tried to put it it is a National Security issue.

Why would the GOE( PIA) opt to act in such a way when even the most notorious countries like N Korea, do not hide their population – or is it part of the so called ‘ a good example of bad example’ to the world and ብጽፍርና ወላ ቁጽሪ ህዝብና!

Hope

Selam Kibrom:
All points you made are valid and legitimate.
But:
Focus on the substance since ,even if the PFDJ is going to disclose the exact census,you wouldn’t trust it,hence,non essential but a tangential issue.
Let us spend the 70% of the time on the real and main issues:

-Constutuitioal Governance/Good Governanace
-The Human Rights Issue

-The Socio-Economic Justice/Freedom of Creativity,……

-The Root Causes of Youth Exodus

MS

Dear Saleh
I appreciate you for the effort you have made in educating us about this subject. I read some pages of the report prepared by the government and got stuck or, shall I say, got bored. So, there is no way for me to go through it. It appears something compiled by minds of politicians for propaganda purpose. In the few pages I read, it mentions the constitution, and national assembly but does not tell why they were discarded ( I don’t know if there is an explanation on the following pages).
Well, congratulating you for such an excellent job may seem overused, but you definitely deserve it how often you may excel; IT IS IMPRESSIVE.
In Eritrean case, I primarily care about the rule of law. It is still debatable whether a society could enjoy the rule of law without democratic governance, but there are few experiences where the rule of law could be observed without a democratic government as defined by elections and multiparty systems, etc.
I think this is an area most Eritreans could agree on. It is even easy to get it across our traditional society because the concepts of the rule of law are there: zban Hgi, zban ghedli, zban ngus (or taking someone to law enforcers invoking “In the name of law” was part of our ancestors’ life (also, in the lowlands, the people have similar language to petition for justice.
The Justice Project defines Rule of law as”
1. 1. Accountability: The government as well as private actors are accountable under the law.
2. Just Laws: The laws are clear, publicized, stable, and just; are applied evenly; and protect fundamental rights, including the security of persons and property and certain core human rights.
3. Open Government: The processes by which the laws are enacted, administered, and enforced are accessible, fair, and efficient.
4. Accessible & Impartial Dispute Resolution
Justice is delivered timely by competent, ethical, and independent representatives and neutrals who are accessible, have adequate resources, and reflect the makeup of the communities they serve.
The above could have been achieved in Eritrea had there been the political will. During the British Administration, the justice system was established and became relatively independent within a very short period of time. Alemseged Tesfai cites incidents in which the courts ruled against the government in civil cases like the ordering of the government to let private journalists out and reopen two private newspapers (my recollection may be vague). Eritrea had all the components to enforce its laws. Citing laws is not good. You have to have the political philosophy and will, codify those political principles, and then have an independent justice system administer them. Eritrea may have progressive laws, but what is good about them if the Generals and Security bosses are calling the shots?
This is an area that really bothers me. Most Eritreans are realistic. They are calling for the rule of law, a robust participation of Eritreans in their affairs per those laws (not as in Mekete types, but real engagement, in setting the priorities of their country), jobs, peace, and security.
Sorry for the incoherent entry, I’m in a hurry but breathing normally, unlike you, with your cross-country race…So, you are still sprinting uphill? I do some hiking during the summers, but they are getting harder and harder. But still, I brag about my yesteryears when my sons insist I should push on.

PS= I scrolled down the comments up to number 75, and here is what I found.
9= 12% about the article
26= 34.7% about something else (Ethio-Eritrean politics)
40= 53.3% about the census.
I wanted to separate from the census because, although it is interconnected, I believe core principles of human rights and areas that dealt with rule of law should have found more attention.
Good read, and big Gracias.

Paulos

Selam Muhamuday,

Finally someone had to put it in numbers. I always wonder, after how many comments relevant to the article at hand, forumers veer off and start talking about something not related to the article. It seems, people are more comfortable to comment on a comment as opposed to the article at hand where the reason could be due to lack of patience to read the article in its entirety. Thanks for the stats.

saay7

Hala MS:

Thanks Mahmouday. On the census, please refer to the answer Kbrom gave Hope (that freedom of information includes the right to know how many of us there are): that, within the context of the article, it’s a telling fact that belies the GoE’s glowing self-report. Not to mention that it respects foreign stakeholders more than its own citizens.

On the rule of law, you will be happy to know that it’s 100 pages of the government is all over it: it’s just one rule of law kind of government. And the proof is all rules, laws, proclamations and constitution it cited, numbers and all. Who needs opposition, free press, or checks and balances: there is rule of law because the government says there is rule of law. More like lull of law.

saay

Amde

Selam Alex,

Would you say as of today (2018) more Eritreans are moving to Ethiopia or to Eritrea?

To be fair to you, let us discount the refugees that are just using Ethio as a way station.

If you need to stick to the “color of eye” narrative, I understand. But many many have come back and had their properties returned, whatever their eye color.

And you can’t say the same about Ethiopians deported from Eritrea.

Amde

Semere Tesfai

Selam All

1. – May not be accurate but it is safe to assume the current Eritrean population to be around four million. And this is the formula for it

Pc = Po x (e)^rt

Pc = Current Eritrean Population
Po = Initial Eritrean Population (officially announced population count – 199

This is a list of countries by emigrant population, persons not living in their country of birth, based on the UN report International Migrant Stock: The 2015 Revision.[5]

Selam Semere Tesfai,
The above article quotes Eritrean Governments report which states “The Government’s estimate of the resident population is 3.65 million (2015).” How do you reconcile that statement with the result of your estimate?

Semere Tesfai

Selam Abrehet Yosief

“The Government’s estimate of the resident population is 3.65 million (2015).”

Abrehet: This is what I believe:

A. – The PFDJ government doesn’t have the ESTIMATE number, they’ve the accurate count.

B. – For its own reason(s), from day one (from Ghedli years) the EPLF/PFDJ organization/regime didn’t/doesn’t want to release the Eritrean census.

C. – Now, the nagging question that comes to mind is why? Well, many people including me speculate it has something to do with ethnic/religious demography.

D. – Many argue, it has something to do with military/national security reasons. But in my limited knowledge, I don’t see that being the rationale for the secrecy of the Eritrean census. Our enemies know how many divisions we have and how well we’re equipped through different sources.

And also, the size of our men and women in uniform, and the age-range of our servicemen/women, tells a lot about the size of the Eritrean population.

Semere Tesfai

Mez

Dear Semere,

You stated: “….The PFDJ government….. has the ACCURATE number ”

What is the science behind the exact numbers?

I thought, scientific life is all about estimation.

Thanks

Semere Tesfai

Selam Mez

“What is the science behind the exact numbers?
I thought, scientific life is all about estimation”

A. – Every Eritrean who is between the age of 18 – 60(?) is on some sort of active duty under strict command structure or is attending higher education.

B. – Every Eritrean between age 7-18 is registered attending regular schools

C. – Every Eritrean under age of 7 is registered for vacination and pre-school classes

C. – Every old age Eritrean that is not on active duty is registered for a business license, for food ration (subsidized food), to get medical supply, as government employee, as a member of a mass organization, as an inmate……. take your pic

Now tell me: who is left unaccounted for?

Semere Tesfai

Mez

Dear Semere,

Interesting perspective. What you are stating is “census information is covered by indirectly using the service and utility informations from schools, national service, etc..”

1) This, for me, looks more like (that the government does have) a Social Security Number to effectively render services–which is a good thing.

2) the underlying assumption in your presentation is a sort of wishful. In case of
a) the urban centers, they are relatively easy to account for. And your theory can be taken as reasonable.
2) when it comes to the rural population (where the majority of the people are living), I don’t think your assumption holds water.

3) even if your assumption above pass the test, this can not be a replacement for the decadal census of the nation–as that is the most profound information base for policy studies and crafting.

Thanks

Nitricc

Hey Semere; I could have agreed with your math under normal conditions. But Eritrea have no normal life standard due to the timeless national military service and the migration that followed. After Sawa every Eritrean youth is dealt with three choices. One, get a good grade go on with higher education. Two, leave the country and three, serve the military for ever. So, I don’t see the favorable conditions for Eritrean youth to produce and reproduce. Under this circumstances I believe the Eritrean government numbers. In away it is good not to be over populated. I can tell you no honest Ethiopian will tell you, the greatest danger for Ethiopia is her population. Ethiopia is simply exploding and no one is doing anything.

Semere Tesfai

Selam Nitricc

This is my thing:

A. – In 1993, the estimated Eritrean population was 3.5 million

B. – A quarter of a century after 1993, without any known catastrophe, to say the Eritrean population is still stagnant on 3.5 million, defies any logic on the face of the earth.

THat’s why I say it is not true.

Semere Tesfai

saay7

Semere:

Are you saying that the total Eritrean pop or the resident pop? If the latter, can you share your source for your estimate that Eritrea’s population in 1993 was 3.5 million? The data from the Referenfum Commission of Eritrea (RCE) in 1993 doesn’t support your estimate.

Saay

Semere Tesfai

Selam Saay7

“Are you saying that the total Eritrean pop or the resident pop?”

Neither one of them.

Remember: we all are guessing here – none of us (neither you nor I) have verifiable accurate information.

And this is what I said: using an AVERAGE African population growth-rate formula, and assuming the 3.5 million Eritrean population census was true, the……….
A. – Current Eritrean TOTAL population (in exile + residing at home) is about 6.5 million.

B. – Out of these 6.5 million Eritreans, assuming the number of Eritreans in exile is about 12% of the total population (high end estimate), there are about 780,000 Eritreans residing outside Eritrea.

C. – And that makes the number of Eritreans residing inside Eritrea today about 5,720,000

Semere Tesfai

saay7

Semere:

And that’s the issue, isn’t it? Every single one of your A, B and C is an assumption. The 1993 pop is an assumption based on nothing (wildly at odds with the 1993 referendum numbers); the growth rate is an assumption (a safe assumption but still an assumption) and the 12% is another assumption (12% of what? Of another assumption.). So now, when the State of Eritrea (not Yemane) goes on record and saying that the resident population is 3.65 million, it’s natural to ask, “say, what?” But when we ask that, you are asking us what is with all this commotion?

saay

Peace!

Dear Saay,

It is just the ignorance stupid, who are you to talk about Eritrea as if Eritrea belongs to PFDJ and its worshipers. Ironically though they know more about Ethiopia than the Ethiopians themselves.

Peace!

Aron

Hi peace,
I agree with you. Almost everyone is expert on Ethiopian politics and who is who in Ethiopia including what goes on everyday while kebesa is getting destroyed by self hating disgruntled few.

The regime apologists are crying Badme day in and day out while Eritrea is getting torn at it’s seems and losing it’s young. For those of who have not seen the refugee camps please do so. It is an eye opener.

Brother blink, I know you lose sleep about Ethiopian Oromos, amharas and all the others Ethiopian tribes and fight with zeal for their rights. That is honorable. Can you please please devote quarter as much your time and energy towards the Eritrean teenagers who had to trek through dangerous borders into neighboring countries reefugee campas trying to avoid the non ending military service.
Aron

Peace!

Selam Aron,

I don’t think Blink is a regime oppologist, he just despises the silly argument that Kebesa is Eritrea and Tigray is Ethiopia, plus the suffering of all human beings in the region is our suffering and until we consciously believe on that, I see no hope for change.

Peace!

Aron

Hi peace,
How so true.
Aron

blink

Dear Aron
Why all this ? Come on mention one comment that I advanced or supported PFDJ police or politics? You may not know this but I vehemently oppose the dictator at home , what I don’t do is play Ethnic game at the risk of destroying Eritreans achievements beyond repair. Dictators come and go until the stakeholders take over but since that is not done yet we all as Eritreans can not lose all . I am one of the people who wish to completely destroy any connection between our brothers and sisters of Tigrinya in Eritrea and so called blood relationships in Tigray. I hate the word Habesha that sometimes wanted to make it synonymous to ( GENECIDERE) and the cancer of Eritreans. I know I may be alone in this because let’s not forget the heavyweight of awatecom forum like ….many more are core Habesha advocates , I don’t think they are going on the right direction. Infact if we go back all the killings and murders are all done by the so called Habesha in collaboration to that word . I believe Eritrea must do all on its way away from Ethiopia.

For example on my view the current noise by Professor Berket is a crime equal to treasonous act , he and many more are criminals who are currently advancing their riot idea . These all people are using the failures of PFDJ to advance their evil Tigrians love circle. In my book I will demand to prison in life for abandoning the price we pay and still paying. Are you in this camp ? Count me your opposite angle.

Semere Tesfai

Selam Saay7

“Every single one of your A, B and C is an assumption. The 1993 pop is an assumption based on nothing (wildly at odds with the 1993 referendum numbers); the growth rate is an assumption (a safe assumption but still an assumption) and the 12% is another assumption (12% of what? Of another assumption.). So now, when the State of Eritrea (not Yemane) goes on record and saying that the resident population is 3.65 million, it’s natural to ask, “say, what?” But when we ask that, you are asking us what is with all this commotion?”

Saleh: To me personally, whether the population of Eritrea is 2.5 million, 3.6 million, 5.7 million or 16.5 million is irrelevant. Achieving peace, unity, prosperity, individual liberty…… is.

And that’s why I said, I don’t see the rational for the obsession to know the Eritrean sensus as a priority – considering the issues we have on our plate.

Again – I want to let you know, I formed my opinion of the Eritrean population, using data and information available on public domain – exactly like you.

Again, let me leave you with one of the many KINDS of sources that helped me to form my opinion. A source of information you could access yourself better than I do, a whole lot better. Enjoy!

Facts from CIA on Eritrea

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/print_er.html
The overall literacy rate was estimated to be almost 74% in 2015; more work needs to be done to raise female literacy and school attendance among nomadic and rural communities. Subsistence farming fails to meet the needs of Eritrea’s growing population because of repeated droughts, dwindling arable land, overgrazing …
Population‎: ‎5,918,919 (July 2017 est.) GDP‎: ‎$6.05 billion (2017 est.)
Independence‎: ‎24 May 1993 (from Ethiopia) GDP per capita‎: ‎$1,400 (2017 est.)

These and datas and informations like this, which are widely available to the public, are the kind sources I use to form my opinion.

Now, do you believe the PFDJ government – a ruling party that was never willing to make Eritrean sensus public since its Ghedli years or the CIA and many global continental and regional institutions? I take the later on this one

Semere Tesfai

saay7

Selamat Semere Tesfai:

“To me personally, whether the population of Eritrea is 2.5 million, 3.6 million, 5.7 million or 16.5 million is irrelevant. Achieving peace, unity, prosperity, individual liberty….is.”

I don’t know what to make of that, Semere! It is such a rich target. First, If it doesn’t matter to you, the fact that it doesn’t matter to you is more unusual (apathetic) than the fact that it matters to us (obsessive.) Second, since “liberty” is relevant to you, how do you have liberty without the right to know something as fundamental as who are we and how many of us are in the “we”? Third, since a lot of your writing is about de-Eritreanizing Eritreans based on some arbitrary litmus test you set up, I do not believe your claim that it is irrelevant to you. It is so relevant to you, you have told us that being Eritrean (Eritreanism) is behavior-based.

Further, you are telling us that you are more likely to believe a report produced by the CIA than that of the government of Eritrea which told us that its report was prepared by “relevant ministries and National Civic Organizations… with due considerations to the objectives and purpose of the Charter. They all participated in the compilation process and subsequent discussion to finalize the report. Several meetings were held to evaluate the authenticity of the information and practice during the compilation and finalization of the report.” Do you know where the CIA World Factbook gets its population reports? It gets it straight from the US Census Bureau International Database (IDB.) And do you know where the IDB gets its data? It gets it from the surveys, census conducted by the country in question to which the US Census Bureau projects mortality rates, fertility rates and net migration.

For 1993 (that is the year that we had a referendum and every adult over 18 in Eritrea was highly encouraged to register for the referendum), the US Census Bureau’s IDB says that Eritrea’s resident population was 3,054,000. If that is true, and since according to the Referendum Commission of Eritrea (RCE), Eritrea’s over 18 population who registered to vote was about 900,000 (including the under 18, that would be double, ie. 1.8 million) then that must mean that there were a total of 1.2 million (of whom half, or 600,000, were over 18 years old) that did not register to vote in the referendum. Do you actually believe that, in Eritrea, in 1993, that 1/3 of those who were eligible to vote did not vote?

What I am saying, Semere, is that the number that the Gov of Eritrea is reporting for resident Eritreans is accurate. My problem is that it was released for purely self-serving reasons. Incidentally, the Census Bureau is projecting Eritrea’s growth rate for 2015 and 2018 to be 0.8% and 0.9%. You can guess why.

saay

Nitricc

Hey Semere; even Wikipedia agrees with your numbers which it
listed Eritrea as “inhabitants/km² 43.1 and Population 5,228,000.” However; I don’t buy their numbers, I am just judging from my own observation and take. I don’t believe everything the so-called expert write. I won’t be surprised if the Eritrean population is less than what the government reported. The truth is youth is fleeing the country.

Semere Tesfai

Selam Nitricc

“I don’t believe everything the so-called expert write. I won’t be surprised if the Eritrean population is less than what the government reported. The truth is youth is fleeing the country.”

Niticc I don’t either. I don’t trust everything that is on Wikipedia and I don’t take everything that the PFDJ government say at face value. But there are easy benchmarks and clues that give you an idea if what you believe to be true (Eritrean population growth), is actually true.

And let me give few hair follicles to the Awate forensic scientists, and an honest explanation to you, as to why I believe what I believe (regarding Eritrean population). And this is my story.

I’ve been to Eritrea only once since my ELF Ghedli years. And that was about a decade ago. Since I knew I wasn’t coming back home anytime soon (because of the nature of my job) I stayed in Eritrea for four months and I travelled with my kids everywhere – except Assab region. And this is what I saw.

1. – My Village:
With my kids I went to my village and few other villages to see my close relatives. And in all the villages I went to, I saw only few people between the age of 18 and 60. In my own village (a village of 200-250 people), I found less than ten adults that I can recognize their faces and know them by name. All the people I knew were either on national service, migrated to Eritrean cities and towns, or in exile. The villages didn’t had vacant houses but didn’t grew by much either.

3.- Other Eritrean towns:
The following towns that I knew well before and during Ghedli years, grew in size by three, four, five times comparing to their pre-Ghedli years – Dbarwa, Keren, Barentu, Sawa, Haykota, Tesseney, Mensura, Hagaz, Augaro, Goluj, Adi-Omar (near Tesseney), Alebu (was empty field pre-1991 now 10-15 thousand people), Sawa and now Kerkebet.

4. – Comparing to pre-independence years, the following regions (Zobas) have also doubled and tripled their population size – Semienawi and Debubawi Qeih Bahri regions, Anseba region, and Gash-Barka regions – I don’t think Zoba MaEkel and Zoba Debub changed by much though

6. – As much as wanted to visit and spend the time in Semienawi and Debubawi Qeih Bahri regions, I didn’t had the time to visit the Red Sea coastal cities and towns.

Semere Tesfai

Nitricc

Greetings Semere: Thank you very much for the personal account and very informative response. Appreciated!

saay7

Selam Semere T:

the Eritrean population inside the country to be 5,754,197 (6,538,860 – 784,663).

Now tell me: what’s new and what is shocking unless my math is way off.

You are saying the resident population in Eritrea is 5.7 million. And the Eritrean Government is saying it is 3.65. That’s more than 2 million off: so that’s the discussion. If you don’t think that kind of discrepancy is a big deal I guess there is nothing to discuss.

saay

Semere Tesfai

Selam Saay7

I’m not aware of any PFDJ regime official Eritrean census. If Yemane Monkey has said the current Eritrean population is 3.5 million (which I haven’t seen his interview myself), all I can say is, I don’t know why he said what he said and for what purpose. And no matter who said it, I really don’t believe the 3.5 million figure is right.

Semere Tesfai

saay7

Semere:

It was the official position of the government of Eritrea as presented to the African Commission:

“The Government’s estimate of the resident population is 3.65 million (2015)….”

Saay

saay7

Selamat Alex:

That’s very generous of you. The list of things I can’t do well is a very long one: for example just last weekend I competed in a trail run, which is like an EKG exam on a treadmill for 36 minutes. I did so badly, I am still breathing hard 🙂

saay

iSem

hi Sal:
And we know why you are still breathing, your were multitasking, day dreaming instead of focusing on the stress test, thinking how to drive data to the next article, gestating for the next next next one, most probably you had on the Eritrean fav pairs hoes (The Eritrean fav shoe is stolen from one of your comments. I have not noticed Eritrean liking specific brands, I only know that that they like Italian made) )
I can also add that the treadmill stopped on you and shock you from you reverie

saay7

Ha iSem:

It wasn’t a real treadmill. I was complaining that in my trail run I expected a rolling hill and there was a damn mountain so steep I was taking an EKG treadmill test:) very humbling and it’s back to road races for me.

I don’t know about next next but I know my next: it’s about Eritrea’s version of the Four Causes so study up on your Aristotle. Unless I get distracted or my loud inner voice says “who cares about that?” (Very likely) in which case I will just wait to read your long rant.

Also, if Kbrom and Blink are listening, I may have solved the Keren-Hagaz population riddle. Keren is a town. But Hagaz is the name of the town AND the sub-zone. As such it includes fine names like (a runner up for Hmeret Kelboy iSem) Enchnak:) I better bail before I raise the ire of SGJ.

saay

blink

Dear Saay
That would be possible scenario if it counted as sub zone and if all around Keren are out from Keren . Where the heck is this all Noyb date ? Will you give to white man but not to us because if it’s available to us someone somewhere can actually help fill if there is a gab or misunderstanding about especially about the number of military from 1995-1998 .

FishMilk

Dear all. A major problem is that the ACHPR is currently under Ethiopian chairmanship and most of its member countries are also major human rights violators. ACHPR has long lacked voracity and credibility as an institution. Taking this angle will not help in changing the mentality of a sizable percentage of Eritreans in country who now have regime neutrality. Do not expect to hold Eritreans accountable against western standards of democracy, social norms and human rights values, for especially those living in country, who are already suspicious to outside interference as a result of the PFDJ propaganda apparatus, will simply remain uneffected and even more distrustful of outside intervention. Abort the shotgun attack approach and instead hone in and hammer on a couple of most important key issues that all Eritreans can take to heart such as imprisonment without due process and a functional and accountable system of due process.

Kim Hanna

Selam Awatistas,

This 3.65 million the Gov. of Eritrea is putting out even if it is slightly higher is a disturbing figure to say the least. Ten years ago the the Guarage Ethiopia, population was about the same number.
Ethiopia admittedly a very poor country, grew in population size from about 40 to 90 million in just about 40 years or so. Our culture is not that much different.

I know it is a taboo to some or at least it is NEWER to bring Y.G’ s name here for the purpose of the discussion of this topic.
Y.G a couple of years ago was bitterly pointing out that, Eritreans, particularly Kebessa Eritreans were leaving the country in disproportionate and alarming numbers.
I think those Eritreans with knowledge and conviction should come forward and address all aspects of the population numbers. Yes one aspect might be the veracity of the numbers the Eritrean Gov. is providing, however no one should ignore the other aspects that might be there.

Some possible reasons I suspect just by reading from Awatistas might include the many errors of administration for the last 25 years.
The waist of the child bearing years.
Huge immigration.
The severe damage to the family structure come to mind.

Other than emigration, war and decreased birth rate, it is difficult to imagine other causes in population decrease in eritrea. The first two are easy to explain. Decrease in birth rate may be due to the big number of male in permanent military service, decreased number of marriages and family formation, and young girls leaving the country never to return.

Eritrea must be the only country in africa with a decreasing population, because overpopulation is expected to be a major problem in the future in most countries, when extrapolated to increased birth rates and improved health care, which are going to be the case.

FishMilk

Hi Horizon. There is no country in African, to include Eritrea, which has a decreasing population. In the case of Eritrea, it is simply growing slower than it should as a result of high migration; nonetheless, its population is still growing (including its highlands).I know this shatters much of the premise of YG divisive works,

Paulos

Selam Kim Hanna,

In Ukraine, the Orthodox High Priest or ther Pope is the most powerful personality and he commands a considerable aura over the President but obviously not constitutionally that is. And a few years or so ago, he promised to baptize newly born babies himself if couples produce more babies. And before he knew it, almost everyone got busy making babies so to speak. Of course, the Pope’s promise was a reflection of the dire decrease in child birth in the country.

The consern is not only confined to Ukrain, it seems prevalent across the board where in Russia, for instance, it is projected that, by 2050 the population will have decreased by 20%. The same measure is also being taken in Spain where the government is giving out financial support and encouraging young couples to produce more babies. Japan is another case where it has more retired citizens than productive young people.

About 20 years ago, I remember reading an Italian edition book by the controversial Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci, titled “La Rabbia e I’Orgogilio” and in English, “The Rage and The Pride” where the theme of the book is centered on present day anxiety about the “Others” which is flowing across Europe.

When decrease in birthrate is a major political agenda where citizens are framing opinions, the regime in Eritrea is not only indifferent to it but one gets tempted to take what YG has been saying all along seriously, if there is a conscious decision to empty the nation of its productive citizens. If that is then the case, one would be hard pressed to understand why that is the case in the first place.

Amde

Selam MrKimHanna

YG apparently had a piece out last year titled “Ethiopia and Eritrea:The Waiting Game” that says that Ethiopia’s strategy of no-peace no-war, intended to weaken the regime, has instead strengthened Isayyas but weakened the Nation.. primarily due to the large exodus.

Amde

halafi mengedi

Amde
Ethiopia’s strategy (especially the sanctions) indeed weakened IA and if that was not the case, hard as it might be to image things could be worse, i think it would have been worse for the people. IA would have us involved in all kind of active wars in the region with gold money etc. The exodus (and associated weakening of the nation) is the result of internal policy by IA and has little to do with Ethiopia non-implementation of the peace agreement. I remember IA laying out plans, before Ethiopia decided not to implement, that clearly say people are going to be in national service for a very long time (in what he used to call a plan equivalent to the post ww2 master plan). And there was zero chance that he would have given power, regardless of Ethiopia’s strategy.
I have a theory where i ascribe the mechanism for mass exodus of Eritrean youth to two reasons. i have posted them on this forum before. Happy to re-post if interested.
hm

Amde

Hi hm,

Can you elaborate on “I remember IA laying out plans, before Ethiopia decided not to implement, that clearly say people are going to be in national service for a very long time (in what he used to call a plan equivalent to the post ww2 marshal plan)”

I can understand a phrasing that says “we will have a national service program for the foreseeable future” (i.e. everybody does their time) but your phrasing here is what actually transpired (everybody is locked in for a very long/indefinite period of time)

If I understand YG’s point correctly, i think he is saying the no-war no-peace strategy might be weakening Isayyas, but it is giving him the excuse to tighten his hold in Eritrea and forbid any changes, guaranteeing PFDJ/Isayyas total hegemony. In the meantime, there is demographic collapse afoot. So Eritrea – especially Kebesa – is dying out as a people.

It is a compelling argument. Perhaps we are seeing hints of it in the discussion here. I would imagine it would have to be THE issue people should have a consensus about. Is Eritrea facing demographic collapse? (Population birth rates below replacement rate).

Amde

Abrehet Yosief

Selam Amde,

Here is a quote from (not perfectly translated version) the letter of Eritrean Bishops:
Para 17. … It is not only our natural resources that are abandoning us but also our human wealth: • Thousands of educated young people, or those with notable intellectual potential, are leaving us in what in effect we might term a “brain drain”, • Children re-join their parents abroad in journeys with one-way tickets • Parents re-join their children abroad … In a word, we find ourselves having to balance the books with a real and proper drain on our resources and human energies. What will become of a country whose most productive facets lack all appeal? It is people with all their potential who make a nation what it ought to be.
18.We are terrorised by the prospect of a drastic depopulation of the country. … But, in history, there are very few cases of the mass return of exiles to their country of origin. Among the generations that the country has lost, probably for ever, there are not only those of the youth and the middle-aged but also the babies born and brought up abroad …

Paulos

ሰላም ንዓኺ ሓፍተይ,

How fast we forget! The courageous Bishops spoke the truth to power and the rest of us afflicted with short memory malady put it aside instead of picking up the trail blaze.

Do you know if there was any kind of response from the regime to the historic and poignant take of the Bishops?

Paulos

Selam Amde,

I think, the issue if Eritrea is facing demographic collapse, as you put it, is beyond the point. It is not the real deal but the expected consequence of something rather dire.

Citizens are not leaving Eritrea because of, say, environmental melt down but because life under the regime is unbearable. As such, the focus should be on how to get rid of the regime as opposed to containing a diarrhea which is a manifestation of a malignant tumor.

If you notice, the focus in finding a solution is turning into some sort of a chimera where not only the nutty Agazians come to mind but also the recent proposal by high caliber personalities [Professors Bereket H. and Tesfatsion Medhanie] where they are flirting with the notion of Confederation where one is tempted to read between the lines if the proposed Confederation is a stepping stone for an eventual unity. People are obviously desperate and they are looking for desperate measures.

Amde

Selam Paulos,

The recent “Professors Bereket H. and Tesfatsion Medhanie” confederation discussion was a bit of a surprise to me. My sense was this was a dead issue, with very small Eritrean popular support, and even more important – probably even lesser Ethiopian support.

I cannot tell if there is a constituency they are speaking for ( and if so how big it is) or if they are just opining as elder statesmen. I wonder what your take on it is.

Amde

Saleh Johar

Amde,
I am surprised that you are. Don’t you know what your folks say about that? This is what they say, in case you forgot:

ኣልሞት ባይ ተጋዳይ

Amde

Haha Gash Saleh,

Well I thought the ተጋዳይ part was over with.

I am frankly curious if even they can name one Eritrean who can publicly make their points after they have passed on.

Amde

Saleh Johar

Hi Amde,
Can’t you see the irony of it all? What result do you expect when even an Ethiopian (like you) is surprised by the proposal?

I don’t believe the Sleepers of Ephesus were counted properly. That is why I reopened the file a few years ago and since then I have been adding to it. So far, my list contains about three dozen people straddling the border. So much for biblical stories of only seven sleepers 🙂

Paulos

Selam Amde,

Last week, I run into an interesting and thought provoking article published on “Macleans”–it is one of the most popular Canadian news magazines, titled, “Canada is not a country.” The author went on to pose the question if Canada passes the test of being a nation with “United by common descent, history, culture or language.” Canada is of course a country, a nation and a state. And a great country at that.

Can we define Eritrea in those terms? Or if we can, can we measure the parameters of the statehood without Ethiopia proper with in the equation? That is where the crux of the matter seems to rest.

Both Professors Bereket and Tesfatsion are the product of a generation that had to break off from a generation that had failed to see Eritrea in isolation where for intance, in one of his speeches, Professor Bereket says that his father was a staunch Unionist. The question then arises to what really happened for the son to break off from his father? In fact, he went on to say that, he was a Federalist from the get go and it was the futile attempt of the Emperor to abolish the Federal arrangement that had pushed him to fight for independence.

As it happened, both Professors took on a different venue and belonged to two diametrically opposit Fronts where one became the victor and the other the vanqueshed. But fate seems to have brought them this time together to question the path they had taken in their formative years.

As men who are trained and make a living in critical thinking, they seem to look for an alternative for they believe some sort of confederal arrangement is the way forward—so they say. What is rather interesting is that, these kind of voices are not single incidents but one among several “subversive” ideas if you will. The “Nativists” will say, hell no! The “Pragmatists” will say, why not if it works and the “Deniers” will say, it is an illusion and will die off with time and of course, as they say, time is the hidden factor. We shall see.

Amde

Selam Paulos,

Superb generational analysis.

Almost makes you think there is a “Grass is always greener on the other side” version of mass political opinion.

Their pitch works for someone like me, who thinks we are basically one people with destinies intertwined. Fools like me…ሂዱልንም አላልን… እንኳን ሄዳችሁም አላልን። But water under bridge and all that.

I believe the logic of geography and demographics will assert itself and there will be many and more salacious intertwinings going on.

But something of the form of “confederation” seems almost quaint. We are in an age where commercial contracts and capitalist business interests appear to trump other types of legal instruments (including constitutions in some places).

What is happening with Djibouti is quite interesting and instructive. The deals Ethiopia is signing are positioning Ethiopia as a beneficiary in Djibouti’s stated goals in becoming something like a Dubai of East Africa… way beyond favorable port deals. Ethiopia is investing in what is slated to be Djibouti’s industrial and hydrocarbon center. Free movement of people, etc… continue apace. In aggregate, they represent an alignment of interests and benefits that will be quite difficult to unravel.

I hope Eritreans look at that as the more likely outcome of a post-Badme future. Not invasion. Not “peacekeeping”. Not studied indifference either. And what is a confederation next to a stack of deals, agreements and contracts? Paradoxically though, it requires some peace between the two and an Eritrean government with some level of legitimacy for that to work. Precisely what some Eritreans who cant wait to close the chapter on “Ethiopia” are planning to struggle for once Badme is done.

So I agree with you I think. Inasmuch as these professors are rather castigated today, their views represent a perennial section of the Eritrean body politic which might grow and expand based on events.

Amde

Paulos

Selam Amde,

Glad you like it. Thank you. For what ever it is worth, these two gentlemen of a towering intellectual stature own considerable comprehension of the socio-political panorama of both nations and it would be a remiss for anyone to pass them in indifference. What they say matters.

Here is the thing: Is confederation workable given the nascent economic standing of the nations in the Horn and the atimes shaky political volatility as well. And if that is in fact the dire reality on the ground, why are the intellects and academics pushing for it? It is with in this rather critical question where one gets tempted to read between the lines if the said Confederation a means not an end onto itself.

As you have pointed it out, I was reading about the proposed bilateral economic agreements between Ethiopia and Djibouti where it seems a sort of non-issue even if they pushed the agreement a notch up for Djibouti to be re-united with Ethiopia. Why does it then it becomes not only an issue but the center of gravity if you pose the same question with respect to Eritrea? A person from Djibouti wouldn’t have any hung-ups to tell you that he or she is Ethiopian through and through but for an Eritrean, it is tantamount to defeating the very purpose of the Ghedli objectives. As such, if one draws geographic, cultural and historical commonality between the two people, the psychological factor is far wider than the naked eye can see.

Amde

Oh Paulos,

Is it me or are you dangerously close to heresy.. haha..

Well, my view is the Ghedli is not over. And Eritreans have not had the chance to properly bury and mourn their dead. That seems like a necessary step before the day after the day after can be considered.

I understand now what you mean with what the greybeards are saying. Perhaps they are implanting the idea as a seed. But saying confederation when they actually mean unity is a dangerous slippery slope and probably makes for a terrible disservice to their cause. I think if they truly believe in a political union of some sort to be embraced by the coming generations, they are better off being explicit about it, and working to give it some kind of institutional basis. But that is an opinion of a random no name stranger on an internet forum, so quite easy for me to say.

Funny enough I was just reading a twitter post saying “Ethiopia, Djibouti, Somaliland and Sudan Heading fir Political Union”. Well, rather breathless, and (something I have learned recently – Ethios are good at the clickbait game) way over sensationalized. But it does appear the economic integration game is well afoot, and the political form is rather immaterial.

“We are basically one people with destinies intertwined.” . That was what i also used to say, until it occured to me, are we the same people with the other 50% muslim lowlanders as well, who in actual fact started the struggle of independence? Has anybody asked their opinion, about their feelings concerning ethiopia and ethiopians, or is it a known fact and nobody wants to spend his/her time discussing it?

I remember, once MS had said something to this effect, “if eritrea has to go southwards, she can as well go westwards, which i interpreted as going with sudan.”.

Confederation?, not even federation is going to work for both countries anymore. Ethiopia and eritrea are to travel on two parallel lanes that are not to converge in the near future. They could not live in unity, and cohabitation is not going to work either, and it is bound to fail, as any sort of re-marriage after a bad divorce. What could happen in the future only the future can tell. Let’s wait until then.

As much as djibouti is concerned, it is a different story; a new beginning that is going to be to the interest of both. Both countries are saying, scratch my back and i will scratch yours, what we call mutual interest being served. Djibouti seems to adopt a liberal politics and economy. It appreciates the role ethiopia plays in her economy and security, religion and identity do not seem to be an important factor as in many muslim countries, and she seems to know where her money is going to come from, now and in the future. Both countries are investing in each others economy and this bond may one day grow from an economic one to a political bond. In addition, Djibouti does not seem to be dazzled anymore with petrodollars. Hence, she kicked out uae officials, when they tried to misbehave.

halafi mengedi

Horizon, Amde

….and now Ethiopia is proposing taking stakes in portsudan, aaa is on fire. (BTW, did you know that all the super heavy machinery for bisha mining was transporters through portsudan?)

Re Eritrea-Ethiopia and ports and confederation etc:

I think it is very hard for people to think and make agreements when hyperventilating. And those topic do bring hyperventilation to Eritreans and Ethiopians. So, I think, the less we talk about confederation etc, the more the two country will come together. And the more options Ethiopia has with regards to ports, the more likely a winning port and other sea access related agreements could be reached between the two countries.

As to the transportation of the super-heavy machinery, from what i understand, port-sudan is a suitable port. The massawa road is impossible for tracks loaded with heavy equipments to ascend the escarpment, assab is very far away and the bisha gold mine i think is in western eritrea. Therefore the nearest port is port-sudan, and it is an easy drive from there to western eritrea.

I agree that the two countries should first of all find peace, then work for economic cooperation, and finally, maybe, discuss about the possibilities of political cooperation that could bring them closer. Unfortunately, we are far away from such scenarios, and even peace does not seem to be priority number one for both countries.

Berhe Y

Dear Horizon,

I agree, the first thing we need is peace and live in peace. I think both government do not want to live in peace, they prefer the “no war no peace”, from the government of Eritrea it’s obvious and the government of Ethiopia (may not be so obvious, but I think it’s the case).

If the issue was left to the people of both countries, there wouldn’t be any problem to achieve peace. But until there is a government that listens to the wishes and hopes of the people (at least in Eritrea) then nothing will happen.

I just wish that, Ethiopia does not give the PFDJ regime the excuse.

Berhe

saay7

Berhe Y:

Do you actually believe the two governments like to maintain the status quo? Externalizing a domestic problem (also called conflict and cohesion) is an old and effective way to distract people’s attention away by creating a permanent enemy. But, as Orwell described in “1984”, it has a built-in expiration date:

Actually, as Winston well knew, it was only four years since Oceania had been at war with Eastasia and in alliance with Eurasia. But that was merely a piece of furtive knowledge, which he happened to possess because his memory was not satisfactorily under control. Officially the change of partners had never happened. Oceania was at war with Eurasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia. The enemy of the moment always represented absolute evil, and it followed that any past or future agreement with him was impossible

For as long as IA and PFDJ are in charge of Eritrea, they will pursue the “conflict-for-cohesion strategy but they have to change who they are in conflict with because they have to constantly test the loyalty of their members.

saay

Berhe Y

Dear Saay,

You know during the war, some PFDJ leaders use to say, weyane wanted to invade Assab and they want to take our land, when asked, why they are not willing to accept the US Rwanda deal and withdraw from Badime.

My argument was at that time, let’s accept the deal and let’s see what Weyane are up to. Sure they are going to argue now, that was always their intentions but they were forced to accept the deal because of our defence forces. Although there is some truth to it, but as far as the action of IA – who ordered the evacuation but the commanders refused and chose to fight, and MZ who declared the war is over, even though some of his inner circle wanted to continue the war.

Here MZ gave IA no excuse and justification for the war and as a result his support and power diminished totally.

Now, Ethiopia for refusing to accept the EEBC ruling, they are giving him the justification he needs to extend his grip of power.

Ethiopia know this very well but why?

The reason I suspect TPLF wanted the status quo because it’s giving them time to totally and absolutely cut off any possible future relationship between the two country going at great length and expense of Ethiopia economy.

I am not suggesting Ethiopia had no reason to use the port of Djibouti but the infrastructure spending they have build to ship goods to the northern parts, there is no justification for it.

Suppose there was truly free government in Ethiopia in charge without much influence of TPLF, do you honestly think they withdrew approve such spending.

In other words, do you think the US would have dug another tunnel because Gen. Nerega refusal to sign the deal?

I don’t think the people of Panama are stupid enough to refuse, the same way Eritreans are not. But they have no choice.

So Ethiopia could have made IA irrelevant the same way the US made Norega irrelevant. In case of Eritrea refuse him the excuse he has.

Sorry a little long than I thought.

Berhe

Paulos

Berhino,

I suspect, the Weyanes want Isaias to stay and remain in power, not of course as some insinuate for sinister motives as in to see the Eritrean people suffer but for all practical purposes where Eritrea to the very least is very stable under Isaias. In a military lingo, they probably whisper to each other—the “Northern Corridor” is taken care of–let’s shift our attention as they love to say to the point of mandane–fight poverty instead. And of course when the Weyanes turned to the fight against poverty, Isaias turned into messing with Yemen and other nations in the region.

More over, when the Weyanes assure themselves about the “Northern corridor”, Isaias assures himself about the close to zero possibility of any uprising inside Eritrea. The equation changes drastically should, say, Akhria’s half-life was longer than it had been. Till then, the calculus not the status quo persists.

Amde

Selam Berhe,

“The reason I suspect TPLF wanted the status quo because it’s giving them time to totally and absolutely cut off any possible future relationship between the two country going at great length and expense of Ethiopia economy.”

I am not sure about there being a grand plan.

My feeling is, the war ended with PFDJ in power, and sections of the Ethio/TPLF defense establishment angry at being stopped too early in their opinion. Then the Badme decision came out and it sure looked like the political side absolutely squandered the military’s victory. And almost all the territorial loss was going to be at the expense of Tigray.

So, it turns out the EEBC decision became an orphan within Ethiopia’s political elite – especially the TPLF. Who would advocate for its implementation? For what benefit?

Nothing has fundamentally changed. The years rolled by simply because the pain of sustaining the status quo is less than the pain or reward for changing it. Just good old inertia – no grand plan.

Ethiopia will have to be compelled at some point. Or some kind interlocutor will have to throw in some sweetener to make the reward for implementation greater than the status quo.

Amde

Berhe Y

Dear Amde,

I really do not know, may be as saay said before, I am looking to find an answer and telling something that I wanted to believe, because there is no rational explanation for me.

I use to think Tigray people were not that much affected but lately on most of the stuff that I hear on youtube, actually there is no support for the “no war on peace” from the people of Tigray as well. I don’t know if that’s recently changed, but it looks like it was there for a long time. And that explains why the welcome Eritreans with open arms (the people of Tigray) and I have not heard any organized opposition to the Eritrean people. The same thing on the Eritrean side, I can say. I can understand why the people of Tigray sentiment, because the land and resources of Tigray is no better than the Eritrean highlands. And naturally they will be disadvantaged, compared to the southern region of Ethiopia. So the productivity of Tigray would probably depend on spending budget they get from the Federal government because I don’t know how the would fair better in terms of trade. Where as Eritrea provided a lot of opportunity for trade with Tigray.

What I can’t get my head around is, how is it possible for the government to justify it’s infrastructure spending budget, year in and year out. Isn’t there anyone who questions? Is there anybody that question, is there a better way to do this?

At the same time, you have no idea what my brain is thinking about IA grand plan looking at what’s happening inside Eritrea and the utter total support he has for his actions by his supporters.

Anyway, let’s hope for better days.

Berhe

Amde

Selam Berhe,

The infrastructure projects, well I think it is to be expected once it was clear that Ethiopia’s landlockedness was for real. It is a good thing to maximize options anyway, so I would not see that as anything against Eritrea. Plus all these port deals are good for the chances of the border resolution.

For trade to happen between Tigray and Eritrea, there has to be peace between Ethiopia and Eritrea. Otherwise, trade will just be in small informal contraband volumes, which are probably happening now.

On the other hand, for Eritrean conscripts to be disbanded and sent home, there also needs to be peace between Addis and Asmara. Otherwise, it is more likely the armies (perhaps in smaller numbers) will be left at the border simply due to the mistrust between them. The world is full of neighbors with recognized borders but who mass armies on their common borders for whatever reason.

I don’t think Tigrayans per se are “for” no-war no-peace, it is more accurately termed an Ethiopian government policy strongly driven by TPLF preferences. The average person probably wants to see the no-war no-peace ended and be back to whatever normalcy there was. But remember the war was unexpected and bitter, and nothing about the Isayyas’ governance inspires confidence that whatever triggered the war at the time would not happen. So absent the resolution of outstanding issues, the most likely outcome of a withdrawal of Ethiopian troops (which will not be to “Ethiopian territory” per se but to logical defensible lines) would be a continuation of the cold war.

I wish I could see a straightforward path. Simply, the “final and binding” rhetoric is just not helping build an Ethiopian constituency for resolution of the issue per EEBC. Probably one way is to have elders and other non-official notables from Eritrea and Tigray sit down with no commitments and expectations and discuss “if we were to do it to get out of this jam, how would we do it?” If they can find a mutually acceptable way, perhaps that will have a life of its own.

Amde

Berhe Y

Dear Amde,

I actually think Eritrea has lost more land in the deal than Ethiopia. In my simple way trying to understand what the ruling means in actual fact, I printed the pictures on both claimed and where the ruling line come in between and cutout the common line. Eritrea lost land in almost every section and including in the Badime triangle, where it’s awarded a lot small that it claimed. I think saay may done technical analysis already.

So yeah, all of us who claim “final and binding” do not exactly understand what exactly it means. For the longest time, I use to argue there is nothing Eritrea to lose if they proceed with with dialog and discuss what ever needs to happen. Who is going to twist their arm to change the boarder ruling? What will it cost for Eritrea to have capable lawyers (may be 5) to deal with this rather than having houndreds of thousands standing army wasting time and resources.

So I am with you in all this.,

I just heard the discussion the former Ethiopian PM with Mo Ibrahim. It was very good, not sure if you had a chance to listen.

Among other things, the topic was Eritrea. ERITREAN former ambassador Andebrahan was there and asked question to the PM.

The PM said it clearly and was not clear to me this well before, but it sounded real and genuine his reply, that Ethiopia really wanted to end the stalemate.

He didn’t name names but can understand who he was referring.

I can honesty say that my wild grand plan thinking can be put to rest.

You said, “I actually think Eritrea has lost more land in the deal than Ethiopia.”. Nevertheless, the most important point, i would say, is where each one of them lost and gained land.

Remember what M.Z. said, that he had no problem in demarcating the western and eastern portions of the border, because he did not care if the other regional state, the state of afar, lost land or not. The western portion was not a problem as well, because a river forms the border.

It became an issue when tigray was to lose. That i think is the core problem. Even then, if it was only up to the late pm alone to decide, there would have been no problem again. The land would be going from the father to the mother.

Therefore, the position of the lose and gain of land is very important.

FishMilk

Hi Horizon. In regards to MZ and the EEBC decision you are simply wrong as he is the one that flat out lied, failed to adhere to the high moral and legal path, and has been at the core so much unnecessary Eritrean sufferance. Refer to MZ’s interview with IRIN on 29 Oct 2003 to refresh yourself on how he earlier flat out refused to accept the EEBC decision. MZ was a power hungry vulture in the same way that PIA is.

saay7

Berhe Y:

Selamat friend. Nah, on this one you are way off. There was alnahda on this written in 2002 (man, I sound like YG, quoting myself 😂 but here’s how it went:
_____________________________________1

The judges ruled that the line connecting Tomsa to Mai Anbesa/Mereb confluence (point 6 to point 1) is the Eritrea-Ethiopia border. Since everything to the right of the bottom point of the diagonal line is Ethiopia and everything to the left of the bottom point of diagonal line is Eritrea, very clearly, Eritrea won. Ethiopia staked all its claim on Maiteb (and lost); Eritrea provided three claims and depending on your viewpoint, it either stumbled its way into a win or lawyered its way into a win.

That’s the Western sector.

In the middle sector, Ethiopia lost because (a) It said we don’t want you to consider what’s just or fair or in good conscience: go strictly by the law; and (b) you don’t even have to research this: Monoksoito is not ours. The judges said okie-dokie if you insist. But don’t come crying to us later. And (spoiler alert): Ethiopia came crying.

On the eastern sector, Bada, I am convinced it’s a nuclear waste site (no offense to those of you from the area): because each governments were making less claim than the other. Both said, no, I insist, this is yours! Somebody here will have to share what’s happening there.

saay

blink

Dear Saay
You still are going on this in 2018 , did you have this at your PC or you just print it on your mind once for ever . Sometimes you need to hire a spokesperson for such things. Amusingly lazy genuine Eritrean .

saay7

Hey Blink:

I don’t think lazy means what you think it means.

Of course I have the damn points and contested areas in my head. It’s all Mai this and Mai that. Doesn’t everyone?

Saay

blink

Dear saay
Take “lazy”as extravagantly brilliant. That’s what I meant. I sometimes couldn’t find the exact word to describe someone like you.

Amde

Attaboy Saay,

I think this whole shenanigan can be termed the Okie-Dokie that birthed the Hokey-Pokey. Lots of shaking about but no movement.

Except it is not just in the Central Sector. The Monokuseito one is more famous because it was so astounding to the judges they had to cover themselves.

But it was the same shoddy, arrogant and incompetent handling from principle, premise, evidence, argumentation by the Ethiopian side that led finally to a decision so politically toxic this thing is still an orphan almost 20 decades later.

Amde

Teodros Alem

Selam Amde
U know what, if ethiopia and eritrea make peace today , most of the out come will be 1, eritreans will do business with south and west of tigrai than tigrai Because of the obvious and may be assabe port will be in use to ethiopia, messewa will be very minimal to use and the more than 100000 ethiopian military that station in tigrai will minimize its contribution to tigrai economy.
So if they try to make peace for economic advantage, they will be wrong once again.
I mean , mark my word after a little bit of insulting other people and dancing, they will start crying all over again.

Mez

Dear Amde,

There are some components of political dynamics (on the TPLF side), which are not well understood yet.
1) as an Ethiopian political entity, why (the principle and their reasoning) they support unequivocally and unconditionally the independance of Eritrea eventhough vital economic interest of both nations was at stake? Here if Eritrean agree or not is another stand alone political issue.
2) all the tplf/eplf relationships, prior to the boarder war were very deep and full of secrecy.
3) my observation on the boarder war and its aftermath (as you indicated in the court hearing, and other instances) is that these two organizations had some hidden parallel common interest (to gain) beyond the official rhetoric. This was especially reflected in the legal hearing process, and the way the Ethiopian government reacted when the United nation mission between their boarders were removed prematurely.
4) I don’t think there was stupidity or lack of legal knowledge on the Ethiopian (legal team) side; it was rather a calculated (albeit unknown to us) stubborn political move on the Ethiopian government side.

5) The current political dynamics in Ethiopia may further accelerate the search for clarity on several fuzzy hangovers of the past.

Who will adapt the orphan (the no-war-no-peace impasse), as Amde says? No one, really. Tplf is happy that the solution for the impasse is off its shoulders, the incumbent ethiopian government is not going to handle the hot potato, and most probably would say it did not create the problem and therefore, there is no reason it should commit a political suicide.

M.Z. was a reluctant warrior and a reluctant defender of ethiopia’s interests. He changed his position when he found out that the outcome of the eebc decision was against his power interest, because it was creating many enemies for him and the tplf.

Going for arbitration, and that without preconditions after a war of aggression against ethiopia, was a grave mistake in the first place, and i do not believe that tigray will accept to vacate badme and its environs so easily today, even if ethiopians who are not directly affected by the result accept it, although i doubt very much they would.

“Secrete agreements of very vital interest to m.z. and dia” that brought deep and irreconcilable animosity between the two, and a big gulf that separates tplf and pfdj/eplf, seems the hidden and enigmatic truth, that may never see daylight.

Therefore, there is no simple and forward solution for the time being, and moreover, the problem is out of the radar of the world community.

As you know very well, infrastructures such as transportation (roads, railways, etc), communication (mobile tel., internet, fiber optic connections), electricity (to all the four corners of the country), health care, education, clean water for all (to create a healthy working citizens), etc. are vital for economic growth. In a country like ethiopia that is devoid of infrastructures, it is never an excess when an infrastructure is built.

Tigray, for example, should be connected not only to eritrea, but also to the state of amhara, to sudan and available guaranteed sea outlet. A similar thing holds true for the other ethiopian regional states.

In addition, the state of tigray should be able to create jobs locally, and law cost – low value industry is what it should aim for at the start, which can give jobs locally and produce commodities it can distribute to the internal market and even export, if successful, to other african countries too.

The regime in asmara makes the biggest mistake here too. It believes that all roads should lead to asmara, while the right thing is, on the contrary, all roads must lead out of asmara to regional and far away african capitals, and beyond. That is the essence of globalization and how trade develops, and certain countries of southeast asia managed to benefit.

Well, we should not forget that at the same time globalization proved a curse for many. Nevertheless, it is better than shutting off oneself from the rest of the world. Lately, even kim jong-un seems to be trying to do a similar thing, i suspect.

Anyway, Asmara is not ancient Rome that all roads lead to, and the regime in asmara should wake up from its hibernation at last.

blink

Dear Horizon
The road to Tigray must be destroyed once for all and we Eritreans must build an underwater channel to Saudi and Yemen when the time comes . Don’t forget Eritrea do not need Tigray and not necessarily Ethiopian markets . Tigrians has been thrown out from Gonder after 80 years and no were to work in Oromo and this is the work of TPLF . There is nothing Eritreans needs from Tigray that Eritreans can not find from any other.

Kbrom

Dear Berhe, saay7 and Amde

My deepest apology to put you together in one thread so we can address some very important issue raised in your post.

– Do the two government want to maintain status quo?

An emphatic yes. For PIA the reason is obvious. For EPRDF a weak state with a wounded leader is a gift because they can not find a leader who converts an otherwise very competitive neighbor country with two ports into uncompetitive owns prison. For EPRDF a PIA’s Eritrea is a gift because the man is eating his own people, isolated from all regional and international forum instead of being a regional political, economic and trade power that would contest Ethiopia’s hegemony. For EPRDF (TPLF) Eritrea with their handpicked regime is a contingency (plan B) for fall back in case of article 39.

– Did MZ declare the war is over, ‘even though some of his inner circle wanted to continue the war’ as stated by Kburan Berhe and Made.

No this myth has been floating for so long time, the more it is repeated the more it is established. EPRDF has tried until the eve of June 12tht signature of the cessation of hostility; it has tried, and tried and tried. The story of TPLF defense establishment being stopped too early is a myth which absolutely does not have any foundation.

– Are the people of Tigray much affected by the no peace no war?

Yes, highly affected to the extent that they sent a delegation to the central government to end the limbo regardless of what the price is for the Kilil.

– Was Ethiopian intention to March to Asmara?

Yes, one can simply ask if the war was for Badme which they captured on 12 February 1999, why did they launch the third offensive ( after a year and 3 months preparation) on May 12 2000 and what was the purpose of marching towards Asmara through Adiquala and the war to capture Assab?

– Should Eritrea accept Ethiopia’s invitation for dialogue?

What is the dialogue about? What if once the dialogue started the Ethiopians with the support of the international community say ‘since there was a dialogue post the verdict, the decision is nil and void’, what if that dialogue lead to another blank wall. Mo Ibrahim’s approach was so naive and simplistic, it seems that he does not have any clue about the complexity of the issue, he was just trying to act as a celebrity.

– Did Eritrea lost more land in the deal than Ethiopia?

Not really. Eritrea lost a big chunk in the area of Tsorona which the EPRDF never asked for, but when you see it in its totality Eritrea gained 60% where as Ethiopia gained 40% of what was requested by each of them.
.
– what if PIA comes and say PFDJ “ወያነ: ብጾትናን መቓልስትና ዮም”.

The supporters will do what their slogan says ንሕና ንሱ ንሱ ንሕና። They will sing ኣየ እዚ ስንክሳር ውድበይ እነሀ ሕጂ ድማ ወያነ ብጾትና ሙኻኑ ዝግባእ መጽናዕትን ኣካይዳ ጎብየን ጌሩ እረጋጊጹ፡ ወያነ ናይ መትከል መሓዛ ንኺድ ጥራይ! Of all this post the saddest part is the Eritrean side which Steven Biko put as ‘The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. Orwell’s built-in expiration date estimation is a little bit longer when it comes to Eritrea, hopefully 2018 May or June or ……..!

Amanuel Hidrat

Selam Kibromay,

You pull me from my hiding place to expose me to the trollers. Anyway, let me ask you this: Why should we take as “reference to our win/lose based on the claims of the two governments? Why don’t we use as reference the 1900, 1902, 1908 treaty for calculating our lose and gain on the verdict given by EEBC? Both governments could claim beyond those treaties. It is like “ኢድካ ናብ ባሕሪ ስደድ: እንተኾነልካ ዓሳ ሒጅካ ትወጽእ: ንተዘይኮነልካ ተሓጺብካ ትወጽእ እኮ እዩ ናይ መንግስታት ነገር::

Suppose if Ethiopia claimed beyond the contested area or beyond the 1900, 1902, 1908 treaties, and if they lose those claims, in my view Ethiopia didn’t lose any, for they know it is false claim.

Taking as reference the 1900, 1902, 1908 treaties, I believe we lost more land than Ethiopia. In fact we lost a chunk of land in the central region for which Ethiopia didn’t claim for it. We also lose a chunk in the Badme region, in the Western part of the contested areas.

Regards

Berhe Y

Dear AH,

I swear, that’s what I was trying to reply to Kbrom and Saay but I didn’t know how to articulate it like you did.

And this argument goes the same to what Saay responded to me lately, I don’t know the technical terms but it looked to me that Ethiopia gained more.

I didn’t use the reference points you use, which makes the argument valid, but from what I saw (the middle line we believe Eritrea boarders were) that Ethiopia claimed a lot higher and they got some, where as we stayed with the line and we got most of the claims. But for the most part, I don’t think we got anything beyond what we claimed.

Berhe

saay7

Ah, Berhe:

A poem for you, it’s called “half-remembered.” I half-remember the ELF telling us Kassala belongs to us too:)

We touch things we see not
And know things we know not
And dream of sweet things that
We’ve not set in store,
We say things we think not
And do things we do not
And wonder at wonders
We’ve wondered before…

When *we* said this land belongs to us and when Ethiopia said with absolute certainty, no, this land belongs to us. They were both sure, of things it was impossible to be sure of, without the benefit of international law and cartographers and technology that didn’t even exist.

So, when a treaty, written (by Italians who don’t know local nomenclature) in 1902, says, “The representatives entrusted with this decision will decide in such a way that the Negroes of the Cunama tribe are in Eritrean territory.” what does it mean to people reading it in 2012? Do the “Negroes of the Cunama tribe” never move in 110 years? What does “the junction of the Mai Ten and Setit River” mean when nobody knows what is Mai Ten? Is it a misspelling for Maiteb? Maetebbe? Maeeteb? Mai Tenne? All reasonable assumptions—Ethiopia said it means “Maiteb” and Eritrea said “it means Mai Tenne.” And how do you draw a straight line (imaginary line, with no precise natural markers, without mapping software) to connect this Setit/Maitenne to Mereb/Mai Anbessa in a Northeast direction?

It was unknowable. (This is why Eritrea’s lawyers kept changing their claims “no, this one”, “no this one”, no, this time we mean it: this one.) So all the people saying “we got less than we deserve” are comparing it with “half-remembered” sweet things that never were.

saay

Berhe Y

Dear saay,

I really appericiate the time you take and the way you keep your cool, to take from a lot of irritant people like me, who have no clue about the matters they are writing about.

I just hope one day, Eritrea gets a leader like with so much talent and super cool, as in cucumber.

If the lines and the lands are so confusing and I must say so insignificant, what difference really would have made.

The experts, could they actually know better than the people who lived there for centuries.

Hi Kibrom,
the joke you posted yesterday made me laugh hysterically because I remember the original. I heard it before Jesus walked the earth. I believe it was a real incident, it was a Yemeni minister who said Yemen should herald war against Anriiika. Then they will bomb us to the Stone Age and they will launch a martial plan like they did in Germany. That’s when another guy wondered what if they defeat Amriika !

But that is not my point today. In the comment above you used (hazeel). Is that Tigrinya or you are using the Arabic word?

Thank you for your reply. Please see to AH reply with regards to the boarder ruling.

I want to focus on a couple of points here.

Ethiopia / MZ intentions and the conduct of war

I personally stopped taking any explanation that comes from any Eritrean with regards to the war with grain of salt, may be with exception of Saay. Because, most of those Eritrean officials or those who were advocating Eritrea’s positions, seem to follow the line of thinking laid out by IA. The attitude is the same, the thinking is the same, …it’s like I am right everyone else is wrong. So unless I read something official (based on facts), I do take any body words for it.

Here is a quick fact:
There is a security council report with regards to Eritrea and Ethiopia conflict. Where Eritrea and Ethiopia conflict, resolution, reports were discussed.

In May 2000, a council mission (made up of 7 UN ambassadors) visited the two countries, meeting with PMMZ and PIA, shuttling back and forth twice. In that marathon diplomacy, both sided laid out their arguments and counter arguments. Reading the report (official, not the story that’s is told, the UN gave Ethiopia 2 weeks to finish the job), it was clear to them that what they are arguing about is really silly.

“The members of the mission made it repeatedly clear that they would not enter into the substance of the OAU texts, nor
substitute for the OAU process, but that the two leaders
had to understand that, as seen from the outside, the
differences between them on the territorial issue in
itself did not warrant a return to fighting.”

Do you actually believe Ethiopia/MZ would be compelled to go all the way to Asmara and invade Eritrea, days before the pressure that he was getting from the SC? How he can possibly justify it? So looking at the facts and the situation at the time, I tend to believe that MZ did NOT want to peruse the invasion and for a good reason. Because:

1) It would have proved IA is correct all along and made to the Eritrean people known with fact the intention of Ethiopia.
2) It makes it clear to the international community and the SC, what Ethiopia true intention was all along.

Ethiopia and MZ could have gone along with their plans..they could have continue the war, but they calculated the RISK and decided to end. I remember this clearly because we were going for demonstration to ask the Canadian government to intervene from continuing the world and couple of days later, Ethiopia / MZ announced that the war is over. We had argued, if there was any merit to go and demonstrate now, but our ask was changed for Canada to send peace keeping and to help those displaced.

Mo Ibrahm PMHD and Andebrhan

It was really great opportunity to listen to PMHD speak freely. I must say, I was quite impressed with his brilliance, technical knowledge, and great sense of humor and quick wit. Specially when he explain how he resigned and what the reason for it (I believe it’s true) that he engineered these whole change process by making himself sacrifice his power. But he is man of full confidence and he said, that he has the knowledge and the expertise to make himself useful. May be I am getting ahead of myself, but I think he will win the Mo Ibrahim foundation prize and well deserve it.

Dear Kbrom, again, I am sorry I don’t want to sound harsh but your attitude really reflect the attitude of the Eritrean government, when you said:

“ Mo Ibrahim’s approach was so naive and simplistic, it seems that he does not have any clue about the complexity of the issue, he was just trying to act as a celebrity.

Okay he doesn’t have a clue about the real issue but acting like celebrity is really condescending. If people listen to the explanaition given by the PM and that of Ambassador, I think people will make their own judgement. I think, the approach the ambassador was taking, it was not at all

Nitricc

Hi All: I have always believed that ” It is a thousand times better to have common sense without education than to have education without common sense.” This creature by the name of Berhe is neither educated nor possesses any commonsense. What a wasted life.

Kbrom

Dear Berhe

I thank you for your insightful input. As you did I will focus only on the two pints.

1. First let me throw this minor point.
You stated ‘personally stopped taking any explanation that comes from any Eritrean with regards to the war with grain of salt, may be with exception of Saay. Because, most of those Eritrean officials or those who were advocating Eritrea’s positions, seem to follow the line of thinking laid out by IA’.
I think people are entitled to have similar idea to that of IA with out necessarily being just followers of the line of thinking of IA.

2. I do not see for now to spend much of our time on whether Ethiopia was able to march to Asmara. What I suggested is that it has become an established fact just because it is being repeated time and again.

3. On the intention of war one can mention so many sources and wikileak reports. One of them is the recent testimony which you can hear and see from Ambassador David Shinn US Ambassador to Ethiopia 1996 -1999 who said the following.
“I would point out one thing that was mentioned to me on several occasions on meeting that I had with Prime Minister Meles, which I always found fascinating and I was never able to sort of get from him why he made those statements. But on several occasions during the conflict the 1998 – 2000 conflict, he said “Mr Ambassador one of these days we are going to be back together again”

4. The only way that we will know the facts is when the dictator departs to his historical destination – the place of all dictators.
if we were a constitutional country and have had an accountable government, we would have a parliamentary report and inquiry that reports to the citizen. People should have been involved in the process when the tension started; but in a country where war and peace is declared/decided/controlled/hidden by one person it is difficult to know and have the details.
See the UK Chilcot Inquiry also known as the Iraq War Inquiry that was set up by UK parliament to examine the UK’s involvement in the Iraq war.
By its remit the panel was able to examine the way decisions were made both before and during the US-led invasion, what actions were taken, and identify lessons that can be learned.
The panel reviewed 150,000 documents, and produced a detailed report of that comes in at 2.6 million words.
One of its leading conclusion was that there was “no imminent threat from Saddam Hussein” in March 2003 and military action was “not a last resort” The legality of the war can only be decided by an international court.

Mo Ibrahm PMHD

5 Dialogue is a good concept but none is telling what is it about nor admitting that it is pre condition not proposal. If verdict is given and the way forward is very clear what is it for that one wants to talk about. See this from the point of view of the two countries historical records, noting that the mistrust between both sides is at its height. If the Ethiopian government is really interested in dialogue why can’t it withdraw its forces from Badme and then discuss whatever topics it wants unless the discussion is about we are not going to leave Badme lets talk about another solution.

6 Assume that someone broke at your house, evicted you and your kids from there claiming that the house belongs to him, you asked to go to court, he agreed to accept the courts verdict as final and binding, you showed your ownership papers the judge gave its verdict and asks the occupier to get out of your house, the intruder is asking you to talk on the verdict whilst he is in your house and you and your kids are outside the house, isn’t it fair to say, can you first please leave from my house then the next day we can start talking. ድሕሪ ስጋ ዓጽሚ ድሕሪ ነገር ፈጽሚ.

7 Sometimes we should not irritate by some positions just because they are PIA’s ‘line of thinking’. This is not about PIA, this is not about PFDJ this is about the territorial integrity and the tutelage of those who have fallen for the sovereign land, sea, and skies of Eritrea.

halafi mengedi

Berhe and Kbrom

First, lets remember that we are projecting our biases and hindsight views onto people who had to make very serious decisions in a fast changing situation, with so many uncertainties and having to heed the voices that come from all direction. And sometimes we lose sight of the complexity of the situation. IMO, there is no grand theory on how the war ended. Any of the possibilities both of you brought, although some of them may seem contradictory, are probably considered at one point or other during the fluid situation. sometimes objective force situations and other times situations force change in objectives. So, i am not sure if we can reach a consensus conclusion and people will probably keep on positions that they ‘like’ for different reasons ( i dont have a theory about, but i do have some interesting thoughts that you may or half-may or may not heard, but that is for another time).

But i do have a theory about why the topic keeps on coming (as kbrom noticed). I wouldnt say it is the definitive answer but i can’t help but give it serious consideration.

My thought is that it has little to do with eritreans. It is different sectors of ethiopian society talking/blaming each other. Consider this:

– what do amharas say if they want to disparage yohannes? they say, after the victory in dogalie, he should have gone all the way to massawa to get ridd off the arabas and italians, blame him for not finsihning the job and whatever came after that.
– what do tigrayans say if they want to disparage menelik? they say, he sold eritrea to italy after adwa. This is a recent twit from a twitter handle ‘tigray legends’: “in menelik’s attempts to seize the imperial throne from the tigrean rulers and to conquer and occupy oromo and sidama lands in 1870’s and 1880’s, menelik began firearms politics and trade with italians and gave eritrea to the latter as material compensation for military aid.”
– we also heard people blame HS and Derg for not finishing off eritreas armed struggle, again along with the same motivated reasoning.
– what do most non-tigrayan ethiopians say if they want to disparage tplf collectively? they say they shoundn’t have given asseb or allow referendum.
– what do TPFL people who hate meles (along with the rest of ethipia) say if they want to disparage meles? they say he should have captured Asmara (i tried hard, but i cant help loling at this).

So, you see why it keeps on coming and probably keep on coming forever.

Kbrom, i say emphatic wrong to your emphatic yes to the idea that both governments want/need the no-war, no-peace situation.

hm

Kbrom

Dear hm

Thank you for the great analysis. I confer with your insightful analysis and the necessity of exercising caution in regard to hindsight bias which might lead us to being wise after the event and failing to appreciate how open and uncertain the past was to the people living through it.

If I may ask can you please elaborate more on your reasons for emphatic no on the issue of whether both governments want/need the no-war, no-peace situation.

1. The historical evidence of the last 16 years shows clearly that they did not want to demarcate the border which would have been otherwise the end of the no war no peace. Yes the Ethiopian refusal to accept the verdict has its own explanation, Eritrea’s insistence to first demarcate then talk stance has also its own reasoning but neither is enough to warrant the lost opportunity of the last 16 years.
2. Both governments were hell-bent to change the regime of each other. Both of them believe the other side will reach first to the ground. Sal is the expert on this topic, he can tell us the last update of the umpteenth time’s prediction of ‘Weyane is in its 11:59 hour’; according to PIA EPRDF would have been history in 2005 unless one hour in the Ethiopian clock is 3 billion minutes. From 2009 – 2016 Ethiopia too did not hide it that it was working for a regime change. Meles Zenawi, the Prime Minister of Ethiopia said in 2009 that, “Ethiopia would work towards changing Eritrea’s policies or its government.”
3. PIA knows that he would be naked if the mantle of real or perceived ‘danger’ is stripped. He would not have any excuse to take hostage the Eritrean people and specially the youth who would be the leaders of democratic change under the pretext of the ‘looming danger against our country’. As all dictators PIA knows that he can’ spring up in times of instability and dissatisfaction, and the only way they can hope to stay relevant and in power, is by militarization and mass mobilization using the fear of a common enemy of the existential sort, one where survival is at stake, where fear dominates, instead of the more dreary issues of hunger and unemployment’. People including we in this forum talk about Ethiopia’S state of emergency; however, Eritrea has been under unofficial state of emergency for the last 14 years.
4. For EPRDF a country with a regime in a death bed is a not a bad option; and the best candidate for that is the man who declared war on his own people – PIA.
5. All the above should not be seen in isolation, they should not be seen only from the perspective of the so called ‘border war’ rather we should put them in the bigger picture, including in the context of the amorphous relationship between EPLF and TPLF in the last 40+ years, described by some as a Cupboard-Love Relationship.

Now I would love to hear from you why you said an emphatic no to the whether both governments want/need the no-war, no-peace situation.

halafi mengedi

Kbrom,

I think, bottom-line, both want border demarcation but only the way each of them want which is causing the stalemate. All the points you raised are simply talking points used by one or the other or both to sustain their position or kind of stumbled upon (for lack of better term) to gather broader support.

here is why i think ia want border demarcated. As said before, to him, it is all about badme. let alone for ia, a very vindictive and hilikhenga seb, even for an ordinary person, to vow badme won’t be surrendered the way ia did and then lose it in a war and then awarded it back at court of law, it is really arises profound feeling. So, just to get back badme he would want the demarcation. you know, i suspect that he woudnt care about irobe, and he would have reached agreement re sea access ifhe had got badme. He would also probably make badme the capital of Eritrea (just kidding). but definitely he and his supporters would have made a huge victory lap, and that is why Ethiopians don’t want to give it to him. it would cause them too much pain. So, they chose to manage the situation delicately and very closely, and by their own objectives, they are doing pretty good (although it is a dangerous position to take). Even some of the renewed movement toward getting final resolution is part of their strategy which is adjust with time and situation. i actually thought, initially, that AAA would try to use escalating the eri situation to rally people behind him, but it seems he doesn’t need that and in fact he is doing quite the appositive, i.e., try to rally people behind him by finding a solution to it…time will tell how sincere it is.

you point #3 made me question if you really know ia. the guy is the most shameless, even if naked completely kind of person. there is no way to get him to do stuff by striping him off his excuses. he will create new ones….

hm

blink

Dear HM
You said “it would cause them too much pain” what kind of pain is this ? An international recognized rule of law already gave the land to Eritrea and this border is helping him (Issaias) to stay in power , that in return is doing the wish of weyane to punish Eritreans by IA cruel system. You sound like Tesfalem Araia the weyane hired on BBC Tigrinya.

halafi mengedi

Blink,
I don’t control their feeling but i can read it. And it is obvious to me that the idea of giving back badme to ia is abhorred by almost ethiopians. And, the situation in Eritrea is not due to badme.
hm

This is one of the biggest lies of tplf to the people of ethiopia, and they did not even apologized for it. I really find it difficult to understand how on earth tplf fm imagined that he would get away with such a lie.

blink

Dear Horizon
He did get away with that, remember he is still part of the deep state of EPRDF. There millions of lies told by TPLF cadres too , the fact that Ethiopia didn’t get Badme was a shock news to all TPLT big wings . Why is Ethiopia still in Eritrea’s land ? No reason at all. It has nothing to do about our dictator, it all has to do with the narrow minded TPLF who until recently controlled Ethiopia. The notion DIA will start new war with anyone after this chapter is just a blind mans reason for hate.

“If you strip dia off his excuses, he will create new ones.” is very true, indeed. One should always have in mind “eritrea the regime”, and “eritrea the people”, two different entities today, compared to during gedli, when the mantra ‘one people, one heart’ was believed willingly or unwillingly.

The regime invested in the 30 yrs war, its target being uncontested power and hegemony, and it will never accept watering down of eritrea’s difference from ethiopia by having good relations with the enemy against which it fought a long war. Good relations with ethiopia will undermine the regime’s absolute power, and it will take away from gedli, its meaning and from the big sacrifice, its logic.

For the regime, it is all about keeping eritrea away from ethiopia, despite culture, religion, history, etc., and there lies, i think, the reason for sustaining the status quo, despite any change that may come.

blink

Dear Horizon
I think you forget one important mining in Eritrea and that is Potash which just 70 km from the sea , massawa road is far good for any transportation with minimum investment in repairs and the Bisha mine doesn’t need to go to port through Asmara and massawa , too bad you know very little about the places . In which way you take Massawa and Aseb are very near from any distance inside Eritrea. You down play is not helping you to see the difference between.

I did not bring the topic, because there is any interest from the ethiopian side, simply, i wanted to point out how things were before and where they are today. If you say that there was never any connections of the two people before the italians came to the region, gave the name eritrea, and isolated it, have your way. Don’t worry, nobody has lost anything.

You are for wall-building and destroying bridges on the road that joins eritrea with the state of tigray, although your personal choice, i respect it.

Don’t look only at what you got from ethiopia, but also what you gave. If you come as an enemy and with the enemy you become an enemy, and if you come as a friend you become one.

The eritrean regime started a war and the victim of aggression reacted, and you ask why it should and it did not surrender. The ethiopian governments evicted eritreans and the eritrean regime reciprocated likewise.

Finally, whoever wants to build walls and destroys the roads and bridges of communication, can always find a reason to sustain the status quo, and doing anything is just futile.
……….
On your other post, let me ask, what is the furthest distance between two points in eritrea that the country need high speed roads and railways?

It is true that ethiopia is looking around for stakes in regional ports, nevertheless, at the same time, eritrea is working hard to find those who would lease her ports. One of the reasons for the big fuss about the last visit to asmara of an american official was in case the usa might lease the port of assab. Therefore, we should not say that one of the two countries has come out a winner in this saga of port access.

blink

Dear Horizon
Under normal conditions, Eritrea doesn’t need to rent any of her ports because at normal condition Eritrea can do everything without cozying with any one.

Even before Italians the people of Eritrea don’t have good relationships with Ethiopian leaders . In the history of Eritrea there was no a single time that the cross border killings stopped. As I have been telling many , Eritrea better make under sea channel to Yemen and Saudi.

Ambassador David Shinn US Ambassador to Ethiopia 1996 -1999 who said the following.
“I would point out one thing that was mentioned to me on several occasions on meeting that I had with Prime Minister Meles, which I always found fascinating and I was never able to sort of get from him why he made those statements. But on several occasions during the conflict the 1998 – 2000 conflict, he said “Mr Ambassador one of these days we are going to be back together again”

I have an explanation for this. But before I tell you, I want you to use your deep connection and confirm it. I

Dear saay
Pls extend this on the above from your views before kibrom throw his stones.

saay7

Blink:

ዕጭምብለይ, for now. Let’s see what Kbrom comes back with. That guy looks like he has a lot of Gheteb used to call ናይ ውሻጠ

Saay

Kbrom

Dear saay7

Can you please note that I am an old pensioner who is knocking the cruel doors of his senility. Your post above is too sophisticated for me to understand, can you please simplify it to my level of understanding.

BTW what is the ስርወ ግስን ስምን for ዕጭምብለይ which is ዕጭ እምቢ ዕጭ ሓንፈፍኩ ዕጭ ኣበኹ ዕጭ ሃብኩ።

Since it is still Sunday here is the lyrics from an old man to a young man like you. not mine it is Eliot Mazer’s

saay7 say
Old man, take a look at my life
I’m a lot like you
I need someone to love me
The whole day through

Aya Kbrom would say
Doesn’t mean that much to me
To mean that much to you
I’ve been first and last
Look at how the time goes past
But I’m all alone at last
Rolling home to you

saay7

Pensioner Kbrom and Blink the Wink:

In 1990, ሓርበይና ወያናይ መለስ who understands the major weakness of ተጋዳላይ ኢሳይያስ is his gigantic ego, made the following proposal:

1. EPLF to join the EPRDF
2. Isaias Afwerki to be the president of the new Ethiopia

Isaias accepted and the deal was blessed by everyone in London (the Americans specially.). Then Isaias presented this to the executive committee of EPLF (this is before Isaias became the Uber-man.). The one HELL NO he got was from Mesfin Hagos.

I heard this WHEN IT HAPPENED, in 1991, when Weyane hafash wdbat weresaying ኢሳይያስ ጠሊሙና

After Eritreas vote on referendum (4/23-4/25, 1993, Reuters quoted Meles Zenawi as saying “the referendum is neither the beginning nor the end of history…” then went on say that Meles Zenawi “…did not rule out confederation, a view shared by Eritrean leader Isaias Afewerki.”

Source: Reuters, May 5, 1993

(Blink, don’t be too impressed: this is not from memory but what I reported in my first magazine, The Eritrean Exponent, in the May/June 1993 edition.)

The point being, there was no reason for the American ambassador to be surprised: Meles and Isaias had gone on record expressing their desire for co-federation.

saay

Kbrom

Dear saay7

NOoooooooooooo, DID NOT HAPPEN AT ALL. ABSOLUTELY NO!

saay7

Kbrom:

Yep. Or. YEEEEESSSSSSSS. Let’s wait for the quietest man in the Eritrean revolution, Mesfin Hagos, to tell that story 🙂

Meanwhile, here’s an excerpt from the Henze-Zenawi interview of 1990 (during the London talks):

PBH: And separatism – how do you see this issue in comparison with the attitude of Eritreans?

MZ: The EPLF has the problem that the population hates the Derg so much that it has all become separatist. The population wants independence to be declared as soon as the EPLF takes Asmara. Isaias understands some of the difficulties of this because he has thought a lot about it in the past year. But he has terrible pressures from his people. It is a difficult issue for him.

saay

Amanuel Hidrat

Selam Saay,

If Confederation is a contractual agreement between two independent states and two different citizens, how could Meles propose for Issayas to be the president of the “New Ethiopia”?

saay7

Selam Emma:

The one State with Isaias as its president was discussed in the London Talks (1990-91.) When that was no longer viable and Eritrea declared its independence in 1993 and was recognized as an independent state, then Meles and Isaias floated confederation between Ethiopia and Eritrea. At the time, of course Ethiopia meant TPLF which meant Meles; and Eritrea meant EPLF which meant Isaias. In other words the two were powerful enough to speak on behalf of the two countries. This is public record: I gave you the source and the date. You can look it up:)

saay

Amanuel Hidrat

Selam Saay,

While I was searching for “Reuters” the reference you gave us, I found an article in New York Time that touches the London meeting between EPLF and TPLF and the formation of transitional government of Ethiopia. It is more or less like your comment, though there is no the issue of presidency you have alluded in your comment.

Reuters archives goes all the way back to 1996 not 1993. But those who have access to Lexis-Nexis at universities can easily find it. I wasn’t working at a university when I quoted it for Eritrea Exponent: I had to buy (by word count) from Lexis-Nexis. (Reuters: May 5, 1993.) Trust me on this, the day after Eritrea declares its independence both Meles and Isaias were talking about confederation.

As for the offer to make Isaias the prez of Ethiopia (with Eritrea as a kilil) if you gently whisper to Fanti Ghana (I think he was with the mass organizations of TPLF then) ሕሹኽ ክብለና’ዩ 😉

In any case one of them betrayed to their secret agreement they have made. You remember the unofficial hand written letters they exchanged in the early skirmishes of Denkelia. That was part of their secret communications in their immatured project of Confederation.

If, a big if….What you are saying is true then it explains a lot about the behaviour of Issayas. He wanted to be “IL DUCE” of the whole Ethiopia and the EPLF (not Ethiopia) denied him the oppurtunity. He wil not have another chance to get the prize he coveted.
On the other hand EPLF could not discard its life long mandate and follow him hence the cruel treatment of G15 and the whole country.

“In 1990, ሓርበይና ወያናይ መለስ who understands the major weakness of ተጋዳላይ ኢሳይያስ is his gigantic ego, made the following proposal:

1. EPLF to join the EPRDF
2. Isaias Afwerki to be the president of the new Ethiopia

Isaias accepted and the deal was blessed by everyone in London (the Americans specially.). Then Isaias presented this to the executive committee of EPLF (this is before Isaias became the Uber-man.). The one HELL NO he got was from Mesfin Hagos.”

saay7

Haile Zeru:

The reason I asked Kbrom to confirm is because he said he was in Italy. And this was the talk among the TPLF hafash wdbat in Rome in 1991. Our friend Fanti, who is very leave-me-alone ኣነ ዝፈልጦ የብለይን kinda guy may confirm or reject this info from that era.

saay

Haile Zeru

Hi SAAY,

…and Harbegna Weyanai had a plan C to discard Issayas when things could have turned sour.

If they really understood him probably they would have kept him as far as possible. And I guess that is what they exactly did.

blink

Dear saay
First, people normally close their eyes when they are doing something that is meant truly to do something horrible or something very emotionally connected to their needs like kiss , pain , break the law and sometimes I heard when they pray . I have done one of these which is the obvious(kiss) and I have to ask what will the conspiracy setters will say about this intended marriage of EPLF and EPRDF. There are enough historical evidence that TPLF and EPLF didn’t help each other for the sake of love . They both helped just to survive like the TPLF in 6th Dergi offensive and EPLF helped TPLF in destroying the horrible Dergi 604 . Now do you think Issaias was looking at Berhanemeskel Redda (Old time EPRP ) leader or the people of TPLF founders like Sihul, Agazi, Giday, Hailu, Abbay, Seyoum, Asfaha, and Aregawi , I am just saying EPLF was not that much fun of TPLF innermost circle and this was even deep to both parties cadres and I just can’t forget about the Megazins of TPLF telling Eritreans that they have to form new party away from ELF and EPLF .

I don’t believe Issaias brought this to the CC of EPLF about ruling Ethiopia .

saay7

Selamat Blink:

You are right, of course, EPLF and TPLF helped each other whenever by helping the other they were helping themselves. Nothing unusual about that. So the question is, what did TPLF want? And what did EPLF want? And is what EPLF wanted what IA wanted? Let’s tackle each:

TPLF

For TPLF, it was important to show the rest of Ethiopia that it wasn’t coming to power having conceded to Eritrea not being part of Ethiopia. It had a perfect cover for that: we have this policy that allows not just Eritrea, but every Ethiopian province to excercise autonomy up-to and including secession. This is what was discussed in London, under the auspices of the US on May 27 and May 28, 1991. This meeting, was a follow-up to the Atlanta talks of October 1990 and February 1991: the key difference was between the US talks and the London talks, Mengistu Hailemariam fled the country (on May 21, 1991.) At the London talks, a decision was made to have a transitional Government where “the status of Eritrea would be discussed further.” On said date (early July 1991), where a Charter was drawn affirming that “freedom, equal rights and self-determinal of all peoples were the cardinal principles governing State affairs in the new Ethoipia.” Here’s where Meles was hoping Isaias would attend and participate: he attended but chose not to be part of the transitional government.

All this is part of the public record.

EPLF

What EPLF would get out of TPLF is consent to “allow” a former province to conduct a referendum without complication. Eritrea was the first country in Africa, which was a part of another African country that was “seceeding.” It was such a novelty that the OAU was very confused about attending the referendum: it almost didn’t.

Again this, too, is part of the public record.

The only controversial and private thing (subject to Tegadalai Mesfin Hagos confirmation) is whether he shut down IA’s floating of an idea to be president of Ethiopia and make Eritrea just another “up to and including secession” EPRDF language.

saay

halafi mengedi

Saay,
I keep on telling horizon and amde that they are underestimating the chances of IA giving eth sea access. I don’t think they believe me, with good reason, but…
hm

saay7

hm:

I don’t know what the context was in your discussion with Amde and Horizon but all they have to know is that he is (a) willing and (b) able. Anyone who doubts that needs a brief refresher:

1. The same IA who now rails against USA, was paying an American lobby firm Greenberg Traurig headed by Jack Abramoff (famous for being convicted and authoring “Why Not Eritrea” ), $25,000 to convince it to establish a base in Eritrea;

2. The same IA who wrote multiple editorials to clarify what he called for “the umpteenth time” Eritrea’s unwavering stand that it would (a) never join alliances and (b) never allow its land, air, sea to be used by any foreign power, did exactly both less than a year after clarifying his position for the umpteenth time;

3. The same IA who was a frequent flyer to Qatar for years and subcontracted the Djibouti portfolio to them turned against them when Saudi Arabia and UAE offered more;

4. More than Qatar, Libya’s Qaddafi was a soul mate, visiting and being visited by him. But when NATO started bombing, IA, unlike every African country never condemned the bombing and had nothing to say after his death.

The man believes in nothing except money and power. Whatever gets him more money and power is by definition good.

saay

halafi mengedi

saay,
Speaking of courting and rejection, remember when he sent yemane gebreab (really the highest official he could send) to cremia to bless its seizure by Russia (abey alekha zeybelukhas…). That happened in summer and by oct/nov Russian foreign minster was in Ethiopia signing huge bilateral agreement and never visited Eritrea. I guess the US was not the only to reject him despite his best efforts. Even China, i remember after the sanctions, he had a meeting with the Chinese ambassador in Eritrea, and he told him that although he was not happy china didn’t stop the sanctions, the relation between the two countries was more than that bla bla…And then Chine chose Djibouti to open military post. lols
hm

It is not a hyperbole if i say that for dia/pfdj giving a sea access to ethiopia is equivalent to annulling eritrea’s independence. Landlocked ethiopia was thought to be the way of survival for eritrea they had in mind by milking ethiopia forever. Even during the few years of cooperation, despite what regime supporters say dia/pfdj was extorting ethiopia through the port of assab and the assab refinery. This was one of the reasons tplf was forced to say ‘NO’ to the plans of dia/pfdj and things came to this point.

I remember what an eritrean wrote soon after the war when ethiopia stopped using assab. He said, ‘we believed that with the income from the port of assab every eritrean family could have a guaranteed income and it is being lost now’.

About a future government of eritrea that is free from the dia/pfdj legacy, i hope it could be different.

blink

Dear saay
I am taking lecture here , what I can do is throw my 2 cents with out being caught in the middle and I need such to go on for longer time because that helps me avoid many things ,So I don’t think this is as tackling thing. What I want to say is this .
1. Yes the referendum was done with the blessings of many power brokers but it was only formality because let’s go back to 1991, No one in his right mind can rewind the clock to 1982 , I mean EPLF was just an instrumental to the goal and the driving force was Eritreans where ever they where were the main drivers of anything that happened in Eritrea and independent Eritrea was simply beyond any question.
2. Both parties were power hungry but TPLF were more hungry to control Ethiopia by eliminating OLF and others , mind you there was no a single person in Addis who cheered for them and more worried TPLF were at the mercy of their helpers to sustain their base .

OAU was always seen as shipping company of the West . There was no good relationship and the contact channel was really not conducive for OAU to have meaningful conversation with EPLF . there was a time one EPLF official rejected a handshake with two OAU officials, someone told the OAU officials take it easy and said “ they are new to the city and after all they were gorilla fighters “ so let’s I wanted to go no more about OAU .

remember in 1979 around March or February where EPRP made a statement that supports Eritrean independence from Ethiopia. And after that TPLF and EPRP become enemies and this forced EPLF to cut relationship with TPLF and from that TPLF removed EPRP from the face of Tigrians so comes the strategic relationship brewing after the hunger crisis. From that time EPLF big boys used to have different views on TPLF just until 1991 and even some until 1997. There were EPLF big boys who were an happy about IA interview in Addis concerning economics or any kind of cooperation with Ethiopia.

Allow me to use one sentence with out mentioning any name . One person who was very close to IA used one old saying “ Aman Andom was born as “ERITREAN “and the Somalians have different view about him plus he continued, How fast can we forget the propaganda that said “Abi Zila Nikidmit “ by TPLF . Sorry I am not good at expressing my thoughts in a good way.

saay7

Selamat Blink:

Before I forget, I want to tell you that I am stealing your line “OAU was always seen as shipping company of the West” as soon as I understand what it means. It is just a great line.

Now. Eritrea calling for a UN-supervised referendum to determine its fate was offered by the ELF and EPLF in….1980. Mengistu, feeling emboldened by victories in the Eastern Front (Ogaden) and the unlimited support of the Soviet Bloc, was in no mood to accommodate “secessionists” and favored total victory. In 1991, during the London talks, Eritrea could have pulled a Mengistu and insisted on holding a referendum within months and not years but giving TPLF cover was part of the consideration. And TPLF had something to give: registering no objection to a former province “seceding”, which is what it was in the eyes of the the shipping company of the West.

On BBC, Aljazeera, I don’t know if it is ready made if they have valid reasons:

Yeah, that nervousness you sense is Amde shaking in his pants over the impending loss of the bet:)

saay

blink

Dear saay
Thanks for borrowing not stealing because you are the oracle of anything that has to do with lines.
Now most of the time I really do read in to PFDJ personalities because their words means nothing as far as the alpha man is on the driving seat.

Now , what’s the plan of the John Bolton and his team? If there is any about the Iran issues, very bad for the ME and it will affect our people. Let’s hope it ends peacefully because Trump can really use his fingers on the dirty war .

Alex

Hi Kibrom.
I completely agree on all your points on your response to Berhe, saay7 and Amde. I say kudos to that.

blink

Dear Alex
What Aboy kibrom also forgot was the historical evil plans of MLLT , don’t forget MLLT (TPLF polti biro) used to support the arc enemy of EPLF just after the formation of fake EPRDF . Remember TPLF changed their core principles many times but one evil plan remains on the table of Sibhat Nega , Syum , Tsadkan and many more CC of TPLF evils. What I am saying is TPLF has always plan B to crush Eritreans from the get go. Meles had to put his project with the DMLE and SAGIM on hold because he knew he can not win against EPLF up until 1998. Yet the logistical support the TPLF/MLLT used to dispense to both organizations continued to flow, with their offices and base areas remaining intact. These confused relationships, bizarre as they may seem today, were calculated moves by the MLLT leaders, to use the DMLE and the ELF-SAGIM – as they used EPDM/EMLF – as ideological partners / stepping stones to power in the new political arenas of both Ethiopia and Eritrea and itself keep the upper hand. The powerful EPLF
military wing cleanup the mess by showing Hayekom , and many TPLF guys that they can not mess against Eritreans. So what did Meles do , wage war on no reason what so ever but just to take control of Eritrea just as kibrom said. This game died when they couldn’t see . Now can they dream such plan with the new guy in the helm , we will see. Do not forget TPLF killed EPRP way way far until Sudan .

How do Aregawi Berhe and Giday Zeratsion got caught by Meles well there was another plan to liquidate them by Sibhat nega too .

Haile S.

Selam Kbrom,
Is there any possibility or hope to convince or let them be convinced, the ንሕና ንሱ፡ ንሱ ንሕና to turn their discours to ንሕና ንሕና፡ ንሱ ንሱ? Give it a deep thought.
Thanks

Kbrom

Haile Abi seb

Yes, when ንሱ arrives in his historical destiny where his friends Qazafi and Abdela Saleh are then you will see in unbelievable way the current ንሱ ንሕና trying to be more than you and me ንሕና ንሕና. The betrayal will be in a lightening speed, faster than how Peter disowned Jesus before the rooster crowed the next morning of Jesus’ Last Supper with his disciples. ምቕናይ ጥራይ በለ ኪሮስ ኣለማየሁ!

Haile S.

Thank you Kbrom,
So basically you are saying the ንሕና ንሱ relationship is ካብ መቓብር ዘይሓልፍ ፍቕሪ ክሳብ ቀብሪ. Then if so, what takes for a divorce, at least a separation to happen? Or do you think there is no hope at all? Sorry for persisting on the question.

Kbrom

Hi Haile,

I do not think we can generalise them as they fall in at least 3 category.

1. Those who do see PFDJ = EPLF/State and sovereignty/low ‘intellectual ‘capacity
This people could understand with time that the two are not same.
2. Narrow interest including corruption resources villa
iIt is love of convenience the moment the interest is stopped they will stop their support
3. Die hard, who feel will be accountable for several issue that they have been involved with the GOE in its illegal acts.

ፍቕሪ ክሳብ ቀብሪ is strong theirs is ፍቕሪ ክሳብ ወጥሪ!

blink

Dear Horizon

I think you forget one important mining in Eritrea and that is Potash which just 70 km from the sea while Ethiopian potash is hundreds of km away from port , massawa road is far good for any transportation with minimum investment in repairs and the Bisha mine doesn’t need to go to port through Asmara – massawa road ,too bad you know very little about the places . In which way you take Massawa and Aseb are very near from any distance inside Eritrea. Your down play is not helping you to see the difference between. Eritrea with minimum investment in train and fast high way roads is simply beyond the dream of your fast line where ever from Ethiopia to any port. Sad a landlocked 100 million people is always to see different opinions. The search for share of ports all over and this will always change due to political views of any government in our region. Ethiopia will always kneel down to the demands of any government in east Africa. Take for example Tigrian customers from any directions still they will depend on someone to fill their shops.

Eritreans are asking for the respect of international rules about the border. Ethiopian governments from many generations do not have any good reputation when it comes to Eritrea and this will continue for the coming generations. Eritreans are only asking for the rule of law to be respected by the aggressive rulers of its neighbor weyane.

Amde

Selam hm, horizon

The confederation etc is idle chatter which does not bother me to be honest.

It is now Djibouti, PortSudan and Berbera ports that Ethiopia is buying stakes into. I don’t think these deals happen overnight, so in truth PM AAA is reaping the benefits of whoever laid the groundwork ahead of time. But quite interesting nonetheless. I see them as acts of economic integration. But someone made the comment that Ethiopia and Djibouti are working on aligning non-economic issues, such as foreign policy. (I have no confirmation if that yet).

It is not clear yet what Ethiopia is giving up to get these shares.

HM, since you were proposing a deal on Ethio access to Red Sea, what do you think of these deals. Do they make your proposal superfluous/redundant or more likely? Do they change the substance of it? Do they make it more/less palatable?

The fact that ethiopia is doing its best to acquire stakes in regional ports shows the ever diverging way ethiopia is taking from eritrea. Djibouti and sudan are entertaining the possibilities of economic integration and somaliland has political reasons (that of recognition as a sovereign state) and economic interests as well. Ethiopia seems ready to snatch the opportunity.

Moreover, ethiopia may see herself as the engine that is going to move the regional economic locomotive. If you remember, during the recent crisis, kenya was angry at the government of ethiopia, because of the danger ethiopia was creating to regional economy. This shows that the horn area is aspiring for a change, economically and politically. Hence the support ethiopia gets from sudan concerning the gerd.

halafi mengedi

Amde
As I said a few times, i really think these agreements Ethiopia is making to ensure availability of multiple ports are going to make normalization of relationships (in the short term) and use of Eritrean ports and possible sea access (in the long term) more likely. The multi-port options for Ethiopia will make any negotiations with Eritrea less of a high stake issue. It will make Ethiopians less aggressive and Eritreans less threatened. It will also make those Eritreans who think they can hold Ethiopia hostage by blocking sea access (i think they are the minority, even among pfdjs, but very loud and an obstructive) less relevant. Furthermore, if successful, these efforts will demonstrate to both Eritreans and Ethiopians and hopefully convince them to views things in terms of economic integration and mutual benefits rather possession of some land and some sea.
….but, i am really looking years ahead and the immediate future does look good at all…hopefully we will pass this period quickly and without conflict.
hm

Kim Hanna

Selam Amde,

These type of discussions of “confederation” or some sort of integration is a topic whose time has not come.
Ethiopian leadership who entertain such idea coming from these professors, need to have their head examined.
We went in and came out of it in recent history in the worst possible way, for both of us.

Confederation, federation etc. are the legal mambo jumbo that was used to camouflage the basic tenant of the problem.
The Eritrean Muslims never did and will never do want to be associated with Ethiopia.
They don’t want to be “appendages” as someone of intellect said at this University.
THAT fact was there then and it is here now.

There was a time when I believed that these people are the same and together as one would be strong enough to stand up to adversities of all sorts.
I was all for the united Ethiopia no matter what. At the end, with stark reality hitting me in the face, I was desperate enough to hope for PIA to be PIA of Ethiopia.
I am so grateful, God, didn’t hear my prayers.
March of Times, I wonder where I heard that phrase, we are in a different place now, we cannot go back, we shouldn’t even try.

Mr. K.H

Haile S.

Selam Paulos,
Thinking about the meeting Pr Bereket participated, with all due respect this statesman deserves, one amharic proverb comes to mind. Please take it humorously, albeit befitting. ስራ ያጣ መነኩሴ ቆቡን ቀዶ ይሰፋል.
Nothing prevents such people to have deep thoughts. The problem is, as revealed by the narrow preparation and inclusion of their meeting, they appear to analyse things from their narrow nostalgia and elevating a narrow “dominant” stakeholders thoughts. I think, in the minds of many Eritreans, at least in mine, there is a lot of expectation from a statesman of Pr Bereket’s caliber. Strengthening the Eritrean state, de-grudging inside Eritrea and bringing Eritreans of his caliber together to reflect on what is going on is the mission I see him playing; not openning another front or hole to dig-in and -in. In the Eritrean affairs, the fractured politico-elites are in their own corners apparently digging deeper and deeper to the point of no visibility between each other. Pr Bereket, instead of opening his own quarry, need to stay on the surface calling everyone to come to the surface for a crosstalk followed by a deep conversation.

Paulos

Selam Hailat,

We need to read with a grain of salt for if anything, Professor Bereket’s past history is mercurial to say the least. That said, however, it is prudent to keep in mind that, the audience he was addressing to matters for if the audience was Eritrean, he would’ve focused on as you suggested, on the immediate danger the country is facing and about solutions to it as well.

The takeaways from the speech so it seems, he declared that, we are one people and he spoke highly of PMAA as if the umbilicus is still intact. A Chinese saying goes, “May you live in an interesting time.”

Berhe Y

Dear Haile S.

ስቕ ጥዑም፡ ከሎ እንታይ ገደሾም፡t፡

I really do not know the reason nor the urgency. You are right, they should have focused on the urgent matters Eritreans need right now.

Don’t they take any responsibility for what happened because of their actions. Someone I trust and respect who knows Dr. Bereket told me that, he was always an opportunist. I had argued against it, because I did not see a reason to believe it. But now I am not so sure.

Even if we forget about the sentiment and the desire of the Eritrean people, how on earth they think this is possible at this time.

First and for most they need to do soul searching and find peace with themselves. And if they think they have made a mistaken in the journey of their lives, then let them come out and say that….that would earn them some respect….at least for being truthful.

Why are they playing around with people lives as toys….

Berhe

Just Curious

Greetings Gentlemen,

Interesting conversation. The immediate thought that came to mind was ኣዲኣ ገዲፋስ ሓትነኣ ትናፍቕ followed by, why couldn’t one attempt both. ነገሩ ብቕደም ተኸተል ዘይምምጽኡ ዳኣ’ምበር and it wasn’t well thought out in terms of inclusivity; in terms of optics’ such as having Ethiopian flag but no Eritrean one; in terms of language, Amharic but no Tigrinya and/or Arabic, etc. These kinds of arrangements matter. Off the bat, Ethiopians appeared to have been the ones who were dictating the terms when seen from the optics standpoint.

As for ቕደም ተኸተል, well, why a renowned scholar of Dr. Bereket’s caliber couldn’t, for example, conceive of initiating intra-dialogue between all Eritrean stakeholders, including those who support the regime before some such talks about confederation and/or federation is brought forth? Which one should be given priority is the question that readily comes to mind. Here is a man, affably known as the Father of Eritrean Constitution who is letting his good standing as a scholar being used by groups who may not have a vested interest in Eritrea as an independent entity.

There is a loaded historical context that would’ve made caution prudent endeavor that he ought to have followed even if the idea seemed plausible at first glance. Wasn’t our renowned constitutional scholar’s response to why the minority groups’, such as the Afars viewpoints not being considered in the making of the constitution came the question from a Canadian constitutional scholar in one of the conferences, the answer from our erudite, “it was a mistake not to have done that”. Another question was one of language, there, too, the answer came barreling down as an error on the framers’ part.

In this latest interview, similar responses were offered. The flag, “didn’t even notice it until you [read the interviewer] mentioned it now”. No Muslim scholars from both sides, don’t remember what his response was, but probably along the lines of either it was a mistake or didn’t dawn on us or we forgot about those, too. Talk about being ill prepared, which comes as huge surprise of a gentleman and a renowned scholar.

In my opinion, the senior gentlemen who are advocating for confederation know very well what they are saying, and they are making the best move on the ethio-eritrean political chase board.

Confederation is equivalent to maintaining eritrea’s sovereignty and at the same time getting the economic advantages from ethiopia. Was that not what eritreans have been asking indirectly, when they were accusing ethiopia for the abrogation of the federation, which became the reason for the 30 yrs war?

Within the confederation, what eritrea has to do is to allow ethiopia use her ports, while securing her ownership of the ports, at the same time leaving the expenses of maintenance and improvement on the shoulders of ethiopia, with the possibility to say one day, i am fed up or i have found a better partner and i am out of the union. All the time Eritrea will be with one leg in the union, while with the other leg she remains outside the union.

The problem is that, as you said, ethiopians entertain no interest anymore, and as i said the previous day, the gap between the two countries is widening by the day, which means any sort of cooperation is losing its luster.

blink

Dear Amde
As you know the professor is a chameleon and he is a retired out of work and he knows no one cares about what he said . He served all dictators and he is simply irresponsible and will die soon as a coward criminal .

halafi mengedi

amde

First, no question there is demographic and social crisis in Eritrea and its effect will be felt for a long time. Re numbers, we are all speculating at this time so nothing much to say at the moment. I think the social crisis may be more worrisome, so many kids are growing without their fathers, fathers having children from multiple women because of the extended separation from family etc. it is scary.

Re IA comment. Right after the war ended, they started the campaign (wefri warsai-yikealo) and indeed IA said it was like 20-25 years plan. now, demobilization was part of the plan. But the definition of demobilization was different for the gov, vs people and donors. What the gov of Eritrea was doing was to pull people from active army and putting them in various construction companies formed under the military, again with minimal stipend and basically living the life of a soldier. And the first thing most of those ‘demobilized’ to the arm companies did was build houses and farms that belong to colonels and generals. It was so demoralizing. In fact, imo, i think that is when the first wave of mass exodus started. people were really hoping to return to civilian life and it was very clear that it was not going to happen.

Re YG’s point, i didn’t read it, but from what you describing, it sounds a lot like the pfdj excuse (with a different spin)- we are doing what we are doing because of the no-peace, no-war situation. I don’t buy it. Regardless of the situation with Ethiopia, conscription was going to continue and IA is never giving up power and will continues oppressing people. Correct me if i am wrong, but were you not arguing the other day that even if Ethiopia were to leave badme that IA and the situation is not going to change?

Finally, i never quite understood the emphasis on kebesa? you don’t think other ethnic groups are suffering as much?

hm

Paulos

Selam HM,

I always enjoy reading your input. And please do share your theories with us for they can shed light on the ongoing debate. Thanks again.

halafi mengedi

Paulos,
Thank you for the encouragement!
hm

Amde

Selam hm,

Interesting input. Much to chew over.

The kebesa point was to say even though all sectors of society are being negatively impacted, kebesa refugees tend to settle much further away (Europe/NorthAmerica/Oceania) and the prospects of their return is very low. Non-kebesa tend to stay relatively local, Sudan, Arabian peninsula, the Gulf, and hence the prospect of their return at some point is higher. You add it up, the kebesa as a major/equal demographic component is on a long term and rapid decline.

That is what I gathered from his paper anyway. What do you think?

I am with Paulos. I really look forward to your postings. Please don’t be shy about offering your point of view. Weren’t you supposed to change your name to something less transient 🙂

Amde

halafi mengedi

Amde

Thank you.

Re Kebesa v metahit. YG point is logical, but if you see the evidence on the group, it is a different story (and data trumps theory every time). Hundred of thousands of Eritrean refugees (mostly from lowlands) are and have been for very long time in Sudan, only a few hundred Km away from the Eritrean border. The fact that they are close to Eritrea didn’t do them any good at all. On the contrary, many of those from kebesa who got exiled to Europe and US easily go and back to the country, are given exclusive rights to buy premium land around asmara or in their villages (all they have to do is sign ‘nay taesa werekeyt’ and pay 2%).

Dear Amde
What Y.G forgot was that weyane main goal has been to weaken Eritreans not PFDJ. From day one the small circle of TPLF goal was to crush Eritreans with the help of PFDJ. That’s has been the main goal .

Amde

Selam blink,

This is so weird. From the Ethiopian point of view, Weyane has bent over backwards to make Eritrea an internationally accepted legal entity. The terms of reference on the EEBC to stick to colonial treaty exclusively (Ethiopian lawyers were instructed to exclusively argue to it), Meles’ offer to demarcate the Western and Eastern sector as defined, return of Eritrean property after the deportations saga, the hosting of many many refugees. The many TPLF combatants who died side by side with EPLF.

Many Weyane tell you that you couldn’t even join the organization if you did not buy its interpretation of the Eritrean issue.

One can go on ad nauseam.

To me, Weyane has a clear record of advocating for Eritrea the state, and Eritreans the people, and a clear record of laying down their lives for you. I don’t think Eritrea has had a truer friend.

Their issue is with PFDJ and Isayyas. Perhaps it is not a matter of principle, and more of hegemonic competition. But that’s it.

This whole Badme Weyane ለቅሶ.. these are Isayas’ crocodile tears. Its a shame otherwise sensible people parrot these lines.

Amde

Kbrom

Dear Amde

Please allow to make few remarks in your previous comment in which you stated:

‘The terms of reference on the EEBC to stick to colonial treaty exclusively (Ethiopian lawyers were instructed to exclusively argue to it), Meles’ offer……

Respecting colonial boundaries and treaties was not Meles’ gift to Eritrea, it is emphasized in the OAU Charter (1963), which took from the very beginning the territorial integrity of its members as one of the central pillars of the organized community of African States.

The First Ordinary Session of the OAU Assembly of Heads of State and Government, held in Cairo in July 1964, accordingly called upon Member States “TO RESPECT THE BORDERS EXISTING ON THEIR ACHIEVEMENT OF NATIONAL INDEPENDENCE”, considering ` “that border problems constitute a grave and permanent factor of dissention” and ` “that the borders of African States, on the day of their independence, constitute a tangible reality”. Settlement of disputes by peaceful means in an African frame- work: In order to cope with the “tangible reality” of the territorial status quo inherited from colonial times,

That is why when ‘border war’ broke out between Eritrea and Ethiopia assuming that it was border issue all mediators including the first Rwanda/USA initiative, the Technical Arrangement, 18th June 2000 Cessation of Hostilities Agreement focused on African Charter.

Hence, according to the December 2000 Alger’s agreement’s Article 4.2 , the Commission was entrusted with the task of delimiting and demarcating the border between Eritrea and Ethiopia. “the Parties agree that a neutral Boundary Commission composed of five members shall be established with a mandate to delimit and demarcate the colonial treaty border based on pertinent colonial treaties (1900,1902 and 1908) and applicable international law.

Noting that the Commission shall not have the power to make decisions EX AEQUO ET BONO.

የተከበሩ ወንድሜ ጋሽ ኣምደ Eritrea’s borders and territorial integrity has never been, is not, and will never be some one’s gift!

Teodros Alem

Selam kbrom
Bla bla bla the treaty was nil and void when the Italian invaded ethiopia and after that
Eritrea was a un recognized part of ethiopia .

Kbrom

Dear Teodros,

So you are saying Eritrea has never been an independent state and it became an independent state after 1993, right?And that is if you believe Eritrea is an independent state, correct?

Teodros Alem

Selam kbrom
I know Eritrea was a colony of Italy.
What is ur point?

Kbrom

Selam Teodros

un recognised independent?I believe you mean a recognised, if it is not a typo then it is a serious issue.

you ask me what is my point, my point is Eritrea was an independent state with clear boundaries since 1890 and more so with Ethiopia since 1900.

The colonial treated, boundaries and pertinent legislations are sacrosanct and not ‘nil and void’ as you tried to put them. If it was nil and void a respected commission with its experts would not have used them as the references (in fact base) for their verdict.

Eritrea was a federated with, then a subjugated a colonised country by Ethiopia, not ‘un recognized part of ethiopia’ as you tried to put it.

PS
I would appreciate if you minimise your toxic style of writing and addressing posts (which I have observed for long time now, when you reply) as it does not help the discussion.

Teodros Alem

Selam kbrom
1, the treaty was nil and void by Italian , that is fact
2, eritrea was part of un recognized part of ethiopia, federated eritrea considered part of ethiopia by the un .that is fact
3,midget meles refuse to go to court by other means except the nil and void agreement. That is the fact.
4, right now eebc replaced every treaty before it, that is the fact.

Kbrom

Selam Teodros,

Thank you for your reply, Let’s agree to totally disagree and depart to our destiny by exchanging a golden hand shake. History and time will do their obligation. I rest this case there.

Teodros Alem

Selam kbrom
There is nothing to disagree about it and history is started given it’s verdict already. If u know what i mean.

halafi mengedi

Kbrom,

It seems like you are little stumped by Teodros’s opinion. Well, you head would spin if you were to talk to the younger Amhara generation. Their theory, historical view and just about everything about Eritrea, it is crazy…I don’t even know where to start. Eritreans really need to find a way to tell our story to those people. In contrast to that, it amazes me how much so many Eritreans, especially the pfdj type, are fixated with tplf and tigrayans who for the most part, even if they are not happy about it, don’t question Eritrea’s independence.

Here is a recent twit from a young amhara that is liked and retweeted by some prominent civil right, freedom bloggers and journalist etc…

****
Any peace deal or public diplomacy between #Ethiopia and #Eriteria must involve a deal that guarantees a sovereign port access for #Ethiopia. Otherwise a series military solution should be prepared in advance in order to secure long term national Interest.
****
Nothing new, right? The disappointing part is that the younger and supposedly more enlightened generation can’t seem to move on.
Even more disappointing is how many, including teodros in his debate with you, talk about Eritrea as if there are no people/human beings who live in it, just a barren land between Ethiopia and the sea…
hm

Kbrom

Hi hm

indeed I am astounded by his remarks. This is what they call the lost opportunity,of the last 27 years; what we lost was not only the past but also the future and its prospects. Partially it is because of the brutal regime, we did not make a single positive investment in the world.

The name Eritrea and Eritreans which was known in the world for hard working, proud and self assured people has become the pre fix of refugees, concentration camps, prison, slavery, war, asylum, human trafficking etc.

When one hopes to see the new PM pursue peace and stability in our region, it is also prudence – not pessimism – to think whether PMAA as a former soldier and young would not dare taking some adventurous action.

Teodros Alem

Selam hm
Did i say anything against eritrea independence?

halafi mengedi

Teodros,
Actually, that wouldn’t disappoint me. It is perfectly legitimate topic to debate and be skeptical about, especially if done in respectful way.
What disappoints me, many Ethiopians, in their discussion about Eritrea, especially about the treaty between Italy and Menelik and what followed after that, it just seems to me they totally forget there were people who live in the land they refer as ‘Eritrea’. Go back and look at your comments in the short debate with Kbrom, can you see what is missing? People who live in ‘Eritrea’. Just no consideration what so over. It is so cold and disappointing, and happens all the time.
hm

Teodros Alem

Selam hm
The topic i was commenting was about eebc.
Reread what was the conversation between Amde and kbrom.

Amde

Selam Gash Kbrom,

Thank you that was informative.

I think your description was a good legal argument the Eritrean side used, and it worked to their satisfaction. But as far as I know the terms to be given to the EEBC was not a legal argument. It was a political decision on both sides. The Ethiopian chose to tell its legal representatives in the EEBC to ignore history and just follow the treaties. What if the Ethiopian side had said it wanted to argue the border on the basis of history (settlement, administration, tax collection, census etc and what not).

One can say much of the current impasse can be traced to this blunder/stupidity/shirt-sightedness. At the very least, much of the densely populated central sector would not have been in the legal limbo it is now. And the demarcation could have conceivably happened a long time ago with minimal political cost to either side.

Amde

Abraham H.

Dear Kibrom, very well argued, brother. I don’t understand how our otherwise well informed Amde could miss on this, as everything as to the procedures of the eebc formation, mandate and decision is readily available to the public. Ethiopia actually argued not only on the basis of the colonial treaties , but also on the basis of other pertinent issues like administration, tax collection, census, etc that Amde mensioned in his other comment The process by which the eebc reached its final verdict was as we know a very lengthy, highly professional and exhaustive process,; it was not black and white decision, based purely on the colonial maps, something which was not easy either because of the quality of the old maps, name changes, and ambiguities, etc.
Another error Amde made was that the Ethiopians did not agree on the demarcation of the Western and Eastern sectors; they only agreed on the eastern sector. Remember the western sector has the major flash point of the entire ‘border conflict’, the town of Badme, which the Ethiopians had failed to convince the eebc that they had been adminstering it and hence should be awarded to them.

Amde

Selam Abraham,

Well I will be happy to learn and be proven wrong on your first section.

The principles EEBC was to be guided on were in The Algiers treaty ” Article 4
1. Consistent with the provisions of the Framework Agreement and
the Agreement on Cessation of Hostilities, the parties reaffirm the
principle of respect for the borders existing at independence as stated in resolution AHG/Res. 16(1) adopted by the OAU Summit in Cairo in 1964, and, in this regard, that they shall be determined on the basis of colonial treaties and applicable international law.”

The two sides could have just as easily agreed to some other legal principle, that would not have caused much if a problem.

Ethiopia arguing on the basis of something other than “colonial treaties” was ከንቱ ልፋት. The damage was done. But it carried political consequences leading to ….

The second part, I actually believe if Badme town was the issue this would have been put to bed a long time ago. It is the Central Sector and the population displacements it entails that is the problem. Just my opinion obviously.

One of the strangest of paradoxes. The legal principles deemed most favorable to Eritrea in the end resulted in a politically unacceptable position for Ethiopia, leading to this impasse where we are discussing population collapse.

Even with the benefit of hindsight experience what ‘other legal principle, that would not have caused much of a problem’ do you see as viable one.

On the second part which you stated ‘if Badme town was the issue this would have been put to bed a long time ago.’, trust me it is Badme but not Badme as hamlet, soil, hut the famous church that Meles calims would be divided in to two (which was not true because according to the line Badme is more than 1.4 KM inside hence the delimitation will not be divide a 4-meter church) its barren land etc. NO … it is about Badme – the flash point of the war and the accountability that comes with it, the un-swallowed pride, the historical rivalry between the TPLF and EPLF, the personal vendetta between PMMZ and PIA etc. For Ethiopian government accepting the EEBC’s verdict (under the situation of ከባድመ መለስ ወደ መለስ) was considered at that time as a political suicide or falling on owns sword, that may be with time is not the case today.

Let us agree to disagree on the first one. As Teodros indicated, Ethiopia could have argued that colonial treaties were null and void as soon as Eritrea became federated. Resurrecting the colonial treaties was an option Ethiopia didnt need to take. And I dont believe anybody imposed it on Ethiopia. Algiers was just a badly constructed one political document for Ethiopia

On the second one, the test will be what would happen if the Ethio side leaves Badme town and leaves the process there. I doubt Eritrea will claim victory and start demobilizing.

Would you like a bet .. something like I have with ሳይ? Another መቶሺ ሳቶሺ? That Ethiopia just leaving Badme would result with absolutely no difference in Eritrean posture or internal mobilization?

Amde

Kbrom

Dear Amde

One feels honour because you talk on ideas and is always educative in nature.

Part one I agree to agree to disagree!

Part two: I would not bet because I do think PIA wants the no peace no war situation more than the Ethiopians do, in fact that is one of the criticism that several peace and security expertise have against the western countries and Ethiopia. Had the demarcation was implemented the Emperor (PIA) would have been naked.

Paulos

Amde,

It is indeed weird. I gather you get by with basic Tigrinya and I am sure you would know what I mean when I say, ኣይትብከ እንድዩ ዘብክየኒ ዘሎ. Or we can always count on Fantination for translation.

Berhe Y

Dear Paulo, Amde and all,

Let me play devil’s advocate here. I do not want to disappoint Fanti but the thought have crossed from time to time.

When Mengistu Haile Mariam was calling for peaceful resolution to the conflict and he offered to give Eritrea Ras gez (self Administration), weyane went bankers with the plan and if I am not mistaken, EPLF was open to the idea of negotiation.

When there was a coup attempt to during the Derg with Shaleqa Dawit, the EPLF declared unilateral ceasefire to give the generals time to focus in over throwing the Derg. And they were ok to have negotiated peace with Shaleqa Dawit and company. Here again, TPLF went bankers with the whole idea of, EPLF looking another possible solutions.

If one looks at from pure political, economical, social point of view, Eritreans being cutoff from Eritrea (even thought independence were achieved) was to purely worked out to the benefit of Tigray. I am not saying, Tigray is NOT Eritrea.

My question is, had Eritrea stayed in some sort of mutual arranged way, how would this have impacted TPLF / Tigray. How significant they would have become in the whole arrangement.

In other words, what ever they have done, did they do it for the benefit of Eritrea or for them?

I don’t want to sound ungrateful and I am not advocating that Eritrean independence was wrong, at the end of the day, it’s the people’s of Eritrea right to choose.

Berhe

blink

Dear Berhe
First and foremost EPLF was open to end the war without more bloodshed at any stage but it was not ready for confederate or any kind of that with Ethiopia , You have to understand the difference.Negociation was the way to cut Eritrea from Ethiopia not to weave it in anyway. EPLF was always clear about the question of independent Eritrea “was at the hand of Eritreans “not with the negotiation of any party .TPLF inner circle always has a dark view on Eritreans aspirations because EPLF rejected independent Tigray . Even at their best relationship EPLF was so clear that Tigray can not be in the same line as of Eritrea to be independent and this viewpoint has always irked weyane inner circle.

Berhe Y

Hi Blink,

I am affraid you are responding to a wrong question that I didn’t ask.

1) I did not say EPLF was open to confederation or anything but open to the idea of negotiated peace agreement. This irritated TPLF for any possible end to war while the Derg is in power, my guess.

2) I didn’t say anything about TPLF desire for independence or anything like that. But to be honest, why should EPLF care what TPLF wants to do. And who is EPLF to tell TPLF and decide for them.

Please focus on what I am talking about. The question I am asking is, what was there for TPLF in supporting Eritrean cause for Independence?

Berhe

blink

Dear Berhe
So you mean EPLF was open to get Eritrea away from Dergi and leave TPLF to rote ?

My point is ,EPLF was in a strong position to dismantle Ethiopia in 1991-93 but gave the favorable bread to TPLF . And the notion EPLF was ready to see dergi rule in Ethiopia with independent Eritrea is a lie that no one can get a slight reference. Even weyane big headers can not tell you one line about such. Mention one meeting were EPLF accepted such .

Berhe Y

Hi Blink,

Again you misunderstood what I was saying trying to say and you are twisting… I know for sure you understand what I am saying but you are diverting the discussion purposely:).

Read Shaleqa Dawit book and the plans they had with IA.

Berhe

Amde

Selam Berhe,

See my response to Teodros.

TPLF originally wanted to secede.

Even if TPLF did not secede, it wanted the option to secede as a practical option at some point in the future.

Secession would be impractical with Eritrea still within Ethiopia.

That’s what I think anyway. It makes sense.

The assumption (wrong one it turns out) was that an independent Eritrea would be a natural and strategic ally, not an existential threat.

Amde

Paulos

Berhino,

That is a brilliant question. EPLF and TPLF were never pals so to speak as in sharing the same ideals as comrades in arms would do. They were strategic partners instead. And strategic partnership is a function of time where one gets rid of the other when the core advantage that bound the two loses any meaning.

TPLF clearly understood how far independent Eritrea can survive under EPLF, simply because as the timeless adage has it, it is a folly to expect a lime tree to produce grapes. As such, it was not only practical to push for Eritrean independence but it was also long term viable and workable option to implement liberal ideals and economic advancement in Ethiopia sans Eritrea under EPLF.

It is with the same deeper assessment that TPLF went bonkers when EPLF flirted with the idea of working solutions with the Dergue. According to TPLF, the leadership with in EPLF and Dergue were one and the same and it is only the verdict of history that can attest to that effect when 27 years after the fact that people are getting nostalgic about Dergue. Go figure!

That is the weirdest thing really. It was as if tplf was pushing eplf (eritrea) from behind out through the exit door, more or less saying good riddance, and at the same time fulfilling as much as possible everything eplf/pfdj demanded, until it felt betrayed when pfdj came with its tanks.

What do the following mean, really?
– Accepting eritrean independence as a precondition to be member of tplf,
– We fought for eritrean independence more than eritreans themselves,
– If need be we will fight again,
– The intense lobbying by tplf in the corridors of the UN.

It wanted to bring eritrean independence to its conclusion as quickly as possible. It was as if it was afraid that eplf may change its mind.

The million dollar question as you put it above is, if there was a special reason for that? Personally, i have no idea.

Nitricc

Hi All; Berhe, the reason can be extracted from MZ’s interview.

“”” “We look at this from the viewpoints of the interests of Tigray first, and then Ethiopia as a whole. We would like to see Eritrea
continuing to have a relationship with Ethiopia. We know that Tigray needs access to the sea, and the only way is through Eritrea. Whether Eritrea is part of Ethiopia or independent, we need this access and, therefore, must have close ties. There are many Tigrayans in Eritrea. They are concerned. They don’t want
to be treated as foreigners there. There has always been close connections between Tigray and Eritrea for the highland people are all the same. They have the same history. We are worried about Eritrea because we are not sure that differences among different groups can be kept under control. Everything could
be destroyed there if people begin fighting each other. When the EPLF takes over Asmara, they will have a difficult burrito, because they have to keep the people together. Some of the Muslims will favor separatism but there is no strength in unity among them on this issue. The ELF has no active strength in Eritrea now, but it still exists in Sudan and there are many Muslims who sympathize with it.”
Now Pay attention to the following MZ takes.
“””“ We know that Tigray needs access to the sea, and the only
way is through Eritrea””””
Translation; He didn’t say Ethiopia needs access to the sea but Tigray? the intent is clear.

““There are many Tigrayans in Eritrea. They are concerned.
They don’t want to be treated as foreigners there.”””
Translation ;There is no difference between highland Eritreans and Tigrians.

““There has always been close connections between Tigray and
Eritrea for the highland people are all the same. They have the same history””
Translation; Those two people one day will unite to create Agazian state.

Therefore The reason TPLF supported the independence of Eritrea had two goals…and both failed due to TPLF greediness.

1) If possible to create greater Tigray state with accesses to the sea.

2) If not, to create Tigray-Tigrigni AKA as Agazian state.

blink

Dear Amde
It’s natural we disagreed on this my understanding about TPLF and EPLF was a matter of strategic interest of both and this all was gone by 1998 and after the EEBC decision and the consequences of not obeying by it as well as the 90,000 honest, hard working Eritreans deportees was coined down to the main point of crushing Eritreans. A pregnant woman of 8 month and 3 weeks was put in horrible foot journey and the police who were guarded with hate were telling the order of the highest TPLF leadership , there are 90,000 stories that Y.G did not write .

About the legal issues, well it is what it is because when you go to court you either go to defend what’s yours or you go to get what you claim and that was what happened , if we see every border decision in the world it was all about the Germany city treaty or something similar and for both states there was no other choice.

In the war that was waged Meles used to show Ethiopia his Ethiopianism by waging war with Eritrea, that’s called not love but hate . The refugees thing is not a good sign but an international obligation that Ethiopia has to obey unless guess what would happen? Eritreans in Ethiopia are no better than Eritreans in Sudan . They still need paperwork to go to Addis while in Sudan is not . No Eritrean is allowed to work outside the camp and that is the truth .

Meles openly showed his hate of Eritreans when he purposely called for Eritreans eye color as there is one.

Like you, what i fail to understand is what else should tplf/woyane have done more than what it did for eritrea to satisfy pfdj. The things tplf had done for eritrea could have been called treason in other places. Just one example, who could have dared but tplf, to say that it would fight on the side of eritrea against ethiopia if need be (against the same country it ruled).

Most of the time tplf was forced to react to pfdj’s excesses, and even then, when it could not cover up or justify it anymore.

I have a conspiracy theory, i.e. there must have been some sort of agreement for post liberation days between tplf and eplf, on which tplf may have renegaded, and we do not know the nature of that agreement. I cannot find any other explanation. It is impossible to say that after so many years of fighting and dying together that they did not have a plan of one sort or other for post victory days.

Amde

Selam blink

“ወል እንግድህ” ብሏል አሉ ሀይሌ ገብረስላሴ።

I had not planned on this being አካኩ ዘራፍ Wednesday.

We will have to part ways, each to his favorite grievances.

Amde

Amde

Sorry Horizon

That was supposed to be a response to blink.

Kim Hanna

Selam Horizon,

EPLF and TPLF is an enigma to me too, thus I have several conspiracy theories of my own.
I fail to see the vitriol some commentators have for TPLF and even extending it to Tigrai in general, I have read comments of betrayal and lack of gratitude for positioning them on top leadership. The complaints sounds like as if they didn’t get paid for the service.

Your conspiracy theory of some tacit agreement could not be too far from the mark. The way the military victory turned out and the way Meles behaved in deference and respect to IA in the early 90s was a good indicator. It might be justified too, under the circumstances.

It was a perfect set up for IA to have and keep ALL the Big Guns while Meles and co. keeping law and order as a police force, for the benefit of both.
Sometime in mid 90s things must have soured in the way the Northerners treated the Southerners, in Tigrinya no less.
The aura of invincibility and believing in own propaganda must have gone too far, in fact it went too far.

I am sure the majority of the normal educated elite of both Tigray and Kebessa must see things eye to eye. The political correctness issue is something else.
I cannot believe, Hayat for example, not being close to TPLFites and their educated class.
I thought that would have been the normal development of events instead of that which we see here now.
I find it so hard to believe when I see some support with extreme joy the apparent Oromo/Amhara leadership against TPLF. (thanks for opening the conspiracy door)
AS THE WORLD TURNS.

Mr. K.H

Teodros Alem

Selam Amde
Based on ur comment above and some other history of tplf what u think it is tplf is stand for? Right now u know tplf failed miserably but u know every poltical organization have principals and goals to achieve. So what u think was/is tplf principles and goals for tigray and ethiopia?
Can we describe them as derg use to call them puppet secessionist(asgentai)?

blink

Dear Teodrose
Here is their main vision from the time of the invention of weyane in 1943. If you read any book at the Addis Abeba history department before 1996 . You can get a hint of the name weyane. TPLF traced the origin of its struggle back to the popular uprising of 1942 – 43, called the ‘Woyyane’ and always the name was connected to independent Tigray. The insiders of TPLF hated EPLF because EPLF pressured weyane to denounce secession, ask Fanti what was the motto of Dimtsi weyane Harnet Tigray ?
If you ever face any weyane cadre ask him to come up any reason of the war TPLF has with .
TPLF vs EDU + Teranafit
TPLF vs EPRP
I can give many but why would we go on and on

Teodros Alem

Selam blink
Sarcastic support aside.
My question was they(tplfist) still defending tplf history(the good the bad the ugly) as u clearly see it above and that makes a lot of confusion with the some of thier current narration

Amde

Selam Teodros,

At least at the start the goal was secession. But that was changed later.

But if you are a Tigray nationalist who was comfortable with the idea of secession, it would not make sense to wish it for yourself but deny it to someone else. Plus, it would have been impractical – how would you secede when you are in the middle of the country? So, if secession was on the plate, principle and practicality makes it obvious the logical choice to support Eritrean secession.

So not so much asgentai as the end all be all, but asgentai for one’s own selfish interest.

I think once they decided on staying there were a couple of reasons for supporting and having a special relationship with Eritrea. One was obviously Eritrea as insurance policy for that ክፉ ቀን when the secessionist agenda is raised again. A friendly and sympathetic neighbor on the northern flank. And perhaps even a coming to fruition of the Tigrai-Tigrigni project or something like that.

Amde

Teodros Alem

Selam Amde
So we can say their(tplf) support and sacrifice for eritrea independence was based on the interest of tigray? If yes they should tell thier(tplf ) history as such so we all get relief from confusion.
Thank u .

Natom Habom

selam amde
no one offer eritrea indepandance in silver platter ,TPLF malevolent
choose to not react but to wait the right time for him to attack .as we know later in the name of badime they started their invasion an well prepared and organized reconquista to bring back eritrea began ,the world thought eritrea will not fight because of the bigger size of ethiopian army ,many opposition went to ethiopia for to be placed by ethiopian gorvernment ,in asmara .
The all been deceive .they underestimate the valliant eritrean army stretched thin from djibouti border to sudan border has shown the world that eritrea is not an easy prey , the woyanee with it incompetent general bitten badly
still depress to this day ,

halafi mengedi

Saay,

Thank you for taking the burden to write such an important piece. i am not sure if can express my admiration better than other have done already, so i will stop here. I would like to point to a couple of observations:

1) as again demonstrated in this piece, i am always amazed by the level of empathy you to the everyday Eritrean. I notice how careful you are with your writing to avoid any semblance of attack on the victim, the everyday Eritrean. it is really exemplary and we all could learn from it.

2) it is now very clear to me how important human rights, liberty and freedom are to you. It shows in the bio and flows through the article. As said before, I still maintain that we, as society, don’t have individual freedom/liberty as a value. I have been reading about core-value based on the discussion on the topic we had on this forum. On interesting point I came across is the concept value/core-value creation. And if i understood it correctly, value/core-value creation is something that the more educated and experienced members of a society can bring in. i view this article as one step towards creating the values of human rights, freedom and liberty. I am sure more will come from you on the same theme.

Thank you again!

hm

Paulos

Selam HM,

Human Rights, Freedom and Liberty are not Eritrean-specific socially constructed or culturally evolved values. They are universal values. As the saying goes however, you can’t be free and equal and you can’t be equal and free either. The intent therefore is not to eliminate the inherent contradiction between Freedom and Equality, but to minimize it and to do that government by the people, to the people and for the people is needed. And of course, the pressing question is, how do we get to Denmark?

Paulos

ሰላም ክቡር ሐዉ ሳልሕ ዮኑስ,

The Eritrean people owe you. Our fallen martyrs owe you. Eritrea owes you. It ain’t a hyperbole when I say, this is literally a one man’s fight against a system built on, as one put it, immaculate deception. God bless!

That’s funny. I think, it was Professor Berekhet Habteselassie who first used the word to describe the regime in Eritrea. Pink Panther is funny but “The Party” 1968 Peter Sellers movie is second to none. I still remember laughing to the end of the movie at Cinema Empero.

Haile S.

Paul,
Interesting to know! Well he (Professor) is repproached by many to be one of the Gabriel angels then.

Paulos

Hailat,

He has been on the spot light of late for a reason rather interesting but indulging in it will take away the pressing discussion on Sal’s great rebuttal.

Abrehet Yosief

Selam Paulos and Aya Haile,
The key word in this article is “the big Overdue”. The report under discussion was presented to the ACHPR in 2018 for the first time. As Haile said, when I started to read more ናይ ዓለም መዝገባት, for any additional information after ready SAAY’s article, I noticed “overdue” is also what could apply to them. More importantly, the small agencies couldn’t complete parts of their report because they had to wait for a response from the Government, which they said had “competing priorities”. In one case, they couldn’t evaluate a project they funded because they were not allowed access so they had to call it “direct cash transfer”. Which in Paulos’ lingo could be known as ረኪስካ ባራ።

Haile S.

Selalm Abrehet,
ሓቅኺ ዛ’ሓውተይ፡ “the big Overdue” ‘ዓሚ ዝመተ ምራኽ ጸውዕ’!

Paulos

ሰላም ሓፍተይ,

ረኪስካ ባራ for the small agencies is a shrug-off or maybe a stereotypical punchline expression of those nations mired with poverty and under cruel tyranny. But for us, ረኪስካ ባራ is a frightening and a too painful scenario to contemplate. If our not too distant history was in fact in vain…….in vain was not says a fighting soul with a glimmer of hope on site.

saay7

Selamat Paulos:

Thank you very much but, yes, you are being hyperbolic but in a good way. This is an amateur response; our response should come from the equivalent of the Eritrean Bar Association, from lawyers using legal language. For that to happen we have to have a functioning civil society. For that to happen, a lot of other things need to happen….

saay

Amde

Selam Saay and forumers,

This piece and the discussion threads Awate.com at its best. Kudos.

Amde

Kbrom

Hi saay7

I tried to find out from UNDP but failed to get any tangible information. The reason I focused on UNDP is because the closest UN organisation which enjoys a cosy relation through its Rwandan representative was UNDP, however even UNDP did not manage to get the population number. According to its Country programme document for Eritrea (2017-2021) UNP states that In all instances UNDP will promote the use of national systems and databases to monitor outcome indicators, when possible and when data is available, and support data and information management capacity development. Missing baseline data will be collected by the end of the first quarter of 2017, including through the Eritrea Population and Household Survey, planned to be finalized by end of 2016

One thing that is possible to make from the UNDP report is putting its scattered figures
to guess the population, it had in its mind. UNDP report says in one part of its report that the Baseline (2015) is 81,600 households (38% female-headed households); which it predicts to rise up to Target (2021): 273,600 (50% female-headed households). In its footnote UNDP believes that the average household size is 4.8, according to the 2010 Eritrea Population and Health Survey. Hence according to UNDP (fed its data from MLWE, MND, MoA, NUEYS, MOEM, Ministry of Justice, NUEYS, NUEW) the total number of additional people benefitting from strengthened livelihoods through solutions for management of natural resources, ecosystem services, chemicals and waste is sitting at 81,600x 4.8 = 391,680.

Abrehet Yosief

Selam Kibrom,
Perhaps you should read UNICEF Annual Report if you have the patience to dig around a UNDP report. After reading SAAYs article above, I thought let me see if the vaccination reports give some clue. But I ended up reading the report. It makes a fascinating read.

Kbrom

Selamn T’enan Abrehet

Thanks for the heads up, I will read it.

Kbrom

Hi Hope

Can you please elaborate what are some of the ‘ solution oriented ‘ efforts that you might have in mind so we can learn from it. can you also elucidate why is rather to focus on our weakness and failure fruitful more than authoring a well elaborated , factual report such as Sal’s report. Do you really believe that ‘the PFDJ would come to its senses’ what does ‘come to its senses and change its attitude’ mean to you, how is it possible, do not you think pFDJ has reached to the point of no return?

Hope

Selam Ustaz Kibrom:
Am not sure why you are asking the same question I have been asking since I joined this Forum and when you know the answers at your finger tips.
We know as to why we have failed and the reasons of our collective failures and what the solutions could be based on the reasons as to why we have failed thus far as eloquently put forward during the Nairobi Meeting by the Eri Medrekh headed by Dr Andeberhan W et al.
As a seasoned Diplomat, and an experienced Politicians with tons and yrs of experience in this regard, I was rather expecting you to take the lead to answer my questions rather than asking me or challenging me.
Here are few of my naïve suggestions I have been forwarding:
1)An Immediate and Unconditional National Reconciliation among ourselves as Individuals/Citizens, Communities, Politicians, Activists by putting aside our non-essential differences
2)Create a United, well coordinated and Strong Front of Justice Seekers/ with a Strong, Joint and Centralized Leadership
3)Develop a well centralized and united Front of Media
4)Develop a specialized and organized Human and Financial Resources..
Etc….
The PFDJ, indeed, is now on the point of NO return, hence, we should also move fast to make sure the PFDJ will NOT further its power to further abuse of ts Power….by learning from its weaknesses and strengths..
As Prof Ghebremeskel Ghebre(not sure if I have his full name correct)of Virginia Tech Univ/EPDP(before it split up into pieces),the ONLY way to challenge the PFDJ is :
-To come up stronger as ONE and UNITED Opposition Group. But beyond that, the PFDJ might even will be a “WORSE” PFDJ/way STRONGER taking into consideration the current developments, its Alliances and Lucrative Potash Mining, all going towards its own FAVOR….

Kbrom

Dear Hope

Thank you for giving me your time to reply to my post.

• My question was framed in the context of your below statement which I took it was reply to Sal’s article. You stated:
‘If we have those facts at hand since decades: Why couldn’t we organize and unite ourselves and challenge this PFDJ rather than repeating the same /blame over and over; again and again and yet/still expecting a different answer?’

• Why is Sal’s eloquent, informative and challenging report considered as ‘repeating the same /blame over and over’. As you know to compile such a descriptive presentational facts and information in a logical way, and put it in an explanatory article challenging the distorted 100-page report by GOE, with clear arguments on the causes and effects as to how and why are things happening in Eritrea with their implications is not an easy task, hence Sal should be commended not be lectured on irrelevant topic.

• Many of us talk about failures of the opposition, and some of us even have the audacity to belittle and ምክሽማሽ the opposition who dedicated themselves at least to do what they can. Sometimes I tend to ask myself who do we mean by opposition and what does it mean? If opposition means anyone who opposes the injustice, siege dictatorship, brutality that is happening in Eritrea, why is that the responsibility and accountability attributed to only those who are trying to do more? I sincerely believe Kennedy’s famous quote should be altered to the following: my fellow Eritreans ask not what the opposition can do for you, ask what you can do through the opposition (in what ever form and shape) for your country.

• We can start by doing such us the following. In your post you called for ‘An Immediate and Unconditional National Reconciliation among ourselves as Individuals/Citizens, Communities, Politicians, Activists by putting aside our non-essential differences’. Well said!

Indeed the tone of reconciliation, tolerance starts from this forum, if we fail to appreciate for someone like Sal, for example, who dedicate his time, knowledge, family and energy to write something that exposes the lies of the regime we are fighting against, how can we talk about National reconciliation or a ‘well centralised and united Front of Media’ as you suggested.

• As to your comment As a seasoned Diplomat, and an experienced Politicians ‘ With all due respect I am neither ‘a seasoned Diplomat’ nor ‘an experienced Politicians’ and I mean it this is not ስለ ቃል ዓለም thank you though.

Final thought: Dear hope, if some one asks please do not start your answer by asking ‘Am not sure why you are asking’ because it does not help to have a healthy communication amongst the people involved.

ገበይካ ጻዕዳ ኣንፍካ ሰንደል፡ ወጼናካ ቅዱይ ልግባእ!

Hope

Thanks Ustaz Kibrom:

Your input is well appreciated and points are well taken.

Few corrections:

-If U r not aware of it as of yet,it was Hope,who gave SAAY beyond an Honorary Title of Prof Dr..Salih Younis for his well deserved and UNMATCHED Contributions to this Forum in particular and for/to the Eritrean Opposition/Justice Seekers in general, being one of its kind and the REAL and “Unpolluted” Justice seekers.

-The pronoun ‘WE” includes me–me being one of /as part of the failed Opposition Groups/Individuals.

-A mere rhetoric /tone(for obvious and personal reasons) does NOT imply, nor does it indicate “Rudeness” or “Impoliteness” ,’disrespectfulness” towards, or “belittling” of any one.But an apology on board if that tone and rhetoric has been offensive and disrespectful.

As far as the failure of the Opposition is concerned, it is “Ye Adebabay Mistir” and we should openly admit it and we should call the spade, a spade as the Opposition miserably FAILED Eritrea and ERITREANS, a fact no one can deny; and we are FULLY responsible and accountable for our collective failures and there is NO need of adding cosmetics and cover ups for our collective failures….as a matter of fact, “We are guilty until proven otherwise”.

Thank you for the Classic Tigrayit Blessings!-

“ገበይካ ጻዕዳ ኣንፍካ ሰንደል፡ ወጼናካ ቅዱይ ልግባእ!
I grew up with the Tigrayit Speakers of Keren and Barca/BeniAmir Boys but could not express my Tigrayit the way you have done it.
Am afraid that your Blin/Blenayit might be even better than mine.
Wo Shukren Ghezillion,another failure with my Arabic Language(despite being my fav one ) as I have never used it for the last 39 years.
Respectfully,
Hope.

Before I share more data, I thought I would get your view on the reasons I am outlining below for the “constructive ambiguity” the GoE uses when it comes to census:

1. The Pufferfish Argument: as a defensive mechanism so a large menacing neighbor doesn’t extrapolate your army size from your population size;
2. The Foreign Province Argument: there has been a disproportionately large exiled population for so long, that Eritreans count internal/external when they are asked “how many Eritreans are there?”
3. Playing the NGOs: when asking for money from donors “developmental partners”, it is in your interest to inflate the numbers.

Now then. In the early 2000s, awate.com published a 1997 census report that was given to us by…. none of your business. It is extraordinarily detailed down to every hamlet. You know this about your old pals at EPLF (when you TPLFites were buddies): they are exceptionally good at ኦርኒክ (databases). A person can go from hamlet A to hamlet B (which is 2 miles away) and they will still ask for name, father’s name, mother’s name, age, ethnicity, religion. Over and over and over. So this is what they reported for 1997:

1. Southern Red Sea 185, 454
2. Center

2.

Kbrom

Dear Saay and Fanti

If I may play the role of Advocatus Diaboli, taking into consideration the negative impact of war related variation in Eritrea’s fertility trajectory as a result of PFDJ’s endless (of course senseless) National Service, would not it expected to be below the 2.8% average for sub-Saharan Africa. By FR I mean age specific fertility, total fertility and fertility intention.

P.S
seyti Warsay (adey Atsnhley)

Sad as it is the NS conscripts who come to their wedding ( 30 days leave) had to leave their wives with their mother, the negative impact and ordeals that follow it is a tragic book by itself.

Kbrom

Hi saay7

Your Noyb has missed one big Zoba i.e. Zoba EDF. Are they counted in the Zobas?

saay7

Selamat kbrom:

That census was from 1997, when we had only, what, Zuria 4? And there was no Sawa High School, either. So their number was a rounding error. Maybe awate can re-publish the data: it is very, very detailed. My favorite: Hagaz population is more than Keren. 😂

saay

Kbrom

Selamat saay7

I knew that would be the assumption before I posted my comments! To the contrary 1997 was the highest number in EDF not only because of Zuria 6 (it was 6) but all 1 – 5 were also there and was the year that the traditional peoples army was transferred to modern structure. Hagaz was the central military hospital of EDF hence that could be one of the reasons that you had Hagaz population more than Keren. At one point the population of the army was 50% to that of the inhabitants in some villages.

saay7

Selamat Kbrom:

Ah, so there you have it: Zoba EDF is accounted for, at least in Hagaz:) As for all the Zurias (1-6: I guess it was 2 zurias per year?) being all mobilized, that was one of the arguments Ethiopia used to make its case that Badme was pre-meditated. Remember? Wait, wait, I do NOT want to have that debate: whoever is coming all armed to rehash that, please have mercy in the name of Hagaz and its 1997 population of 60,662, five thousand more than Keren. 🙂

saay

Kbrom

Selam Selam saay7

No, the zurias were mobilised to do the national developmental tasks, the WY1.0 version. No indications of war ወረ ውግእ!

blink

Dear saay
So your sources must asked now or you can withdraw as the sources is not credible enough. Do you forget where Hayli midri was ?

Peace!

Blink,

I think people should pay for reading resourceful articles and brilliant comments. What do you think of awate.com becomes a membership site??? I am willing to pay $50 a month, seriously!!!!

Peace!

blink

Dear peace
I think you forgot that I admired you for too long but these few months you avoided the forum and left me alone to be insulted because I am not descendants of Tigray and why would I pay 50 packs to be called not chiwa because I am not from Tigray? How much would the bashers pay ?

Peace!

My man Blink,

No. It is just I switched to a fast-paced company, and sometimes, the reading is too good and leaves no time for typing.

Our problem is PFDJ, exposing us to ጁጅ ማእጁጅ. ሪኢናዮም ዘይንፈልጥ.

Peace!

blink

Dear peace
Great if it is from work load just do it . I think PFDJ can only be tackled if we clean our house and isolate the sadist from our people. We have a hard time isolating our enemy from our people. We can only do that if we see Issaias as the number one enemy of the people. We have extra material to show he is a heinous dictator but we can not do it if we swim with so many Juj MAJUJ , peace ,you are cruel in a good way. How do you come up with that ? I will use it outside this forum .

Thanks

saay7

Selam Blink:

I don’t know why you think Mr Noyb is not credible. There is an easy way to verify it: give me a random village you know, and in which zoba it is, and I will tell you what Mr Noyb says not only about the population size but also how many households are in the village. Then you can see if he is still not credible. Thanks to Kbrom, we already know about the population bulge in Hagaz.

But seriously, I don’t want to sidetrack my own article: the issue is human rights and how the GoE not only systematically violates it but then uses an absurd defense: we are not breaking the law because, here, we have the law.

saay

blink

Dear saay
I am not trying to say he is not but if Hagaz is larger than Keren , it begs the question what happened to the large city to be below the one street hagaz ? That’s what I am trying to say . Even if the hospital was in hagaz it cannot be larger half of Keren . The military was not accounted with any it was divided in to 3 at that time and the ground force head office was in Keren ( hayli midri) .

Well human rights! Yes this was all about that and what we are discussing is about the political ploy of PFDJ to give report to foreigners while the stakeholders know nothing about. It has been almost always as such . If this report was to the stakeholders, well your article would have been different, am I wrong? Would you spend your time in African human right articles ? PFDJ can not escape by this debunked report and all is lies , everything is a made up number and I don’t believe they care to look , they just filled all English words and that’s all.

Abraham H.

Selam blink, you said, “The military was not accounted with any …”, but how do you know this, were you there among the census/information gathering people? Were you part of the process?

blink

Dear Abrham
The military numbers were held differently, I mean they were not added to the specific village or city . If you remember the name was Kor like 272 and many like that . In 1997 the military was may be at its peak and most of the military( kifleserawits ) were mobile except the heavy machinery personnel , every month all Brighades and botolini personal were sending their report on 23-27 of every month and people in Keren (hayli midri)who were in forto were taking new courses to cope with the movement and new way of settings . What I am saying is hagaz was not full of military personal that can be over Keren population. Do you remember the stone crushing machines around these places and the man power to feed that was rotating

Abraham H.

Selam blink, by end of 1995, the number of Sawa rounds had reached 4th round, and by 1997, it was at least around 7th round. So if you take about 20 thousand recriuts in one round, that would make about 150 thousand Sawa recriuts only, combing this with about 40 thousand tegadelti fighters, the Eritrean army was about 200 thousand strong at that time. So if those who made the census ignored this huge number, I think that would make a big discripancy in the total population size. Also if my memory is right, the mobilization that was called in the year 1997, was taking place in the area around Hagaz called ‘Glass’, so I don’t know whether the census was conducted at that time. In any case, as long as you are not privy to the process, you cannot be 100% sure and say the military was not counted with the villages or towns they were stationed in.

blink

Dear Abraham
I don’t think I explain this clearly, what I meant “ not added “ was these military numbers were not added to the population counting of the villages or cities, they must be inside the census bureau within their own section . In 1997 the numbers were really high like you said , at one report something like September the number was higher than what you said. The military at the goboz teshamo time was over a quarter of a million people.

Tedla

Selam Saay,

A minor correction on your figures, even though it wouldn’t change the overall tenor of your solidly argued article:

This gives us around 3,816,893 people for 2015. If we further account for the outflow of around 150,000 people for the time period of 18 years, we get close to the official number.

Fanti Ghana

Selam Tedla,

Speaking of minor correction, the 2.8 is growth rate not a birth rate.

saay7

Tedla:

Thanks, buddy! To bring this issue full circle, the reason that the Government of Eritrea disclosed the resident population of Eritrea was not because it was being transparent, not because it was answering a question posed by an Eritrean, not because it was even relevant to the issue (say, migration.) The reason it did it is because it was trying to show that Eritrea’s per capita income is higher than the way the World Bank calculated it. So it was happy to take the World Bank’s assessment of the growth of Eritrea’s economy (“Eritrean economy grew at the rate of 10.9% (1993-97) and by 9.0% (2011-12”), but God help if you were to cite the World Bank with unfavorable data as you will be told: “they have no presence in Eritrea! The only thing they did was the port rehabilitation which ended in 2011! They are neo-liberals, etc, etc.”

saay

halafi mengedi

Saay, Fanti

I have been enjoying the number crunching you guys are doing. Here is a quite reliable number that can give you some insight as to what is happening. Look at the number of high school student taking The National High School Leaving Certificate Examination. I think they report it every year so that you can see the trend. Also, i think the number is quite accurate. Quick search indicates 19,645 students took it in 2011 and 21,850 in 2014. I am sure you can get numbers for other years if you do a little digging.

i will leave the rest of the analysis to you guys.

hm

saay7

Hi hm:

I see what you are saying but the larger point was: why is the government, known for its obsession with data and databases (For the sole purpose of controlling people), not sharing Eritrea’s census? And when it does share its estimates, why does it only do it when reporting to the UN and now AU? Is it because those who are responsible for counting and accounting have also been exiled and/or arrested?

On the school leaving examination, as you know, they way they do it is to use grades to determine who goes to academic (degree) colleges, who goes to vocational (certificate) colleges, and who soldiers on (pun intended.)One year, IA hadn’t read his notes, was surprised to learn the low pass rates, hesitated and said “we will correct it and get back to you.” Of course there is absolutely nothing wrong (and is normal) for students to have high, medium, low grades and the academic colleges can only absorb the top-tier AND there is nothing wrong or inferior about vocational schools and even top-scorers should go there is that’s their interest and aptitude but “who will you read Yassin with?*”

saay

* Amde, before you change that into another discussion ala ቅጭ, the expression simply means there is nobody to have a mature conversation with. “yassin” is one of the Surahs in the Quran.

halafi mengedi

saay,

i understood what the main point is, and i can see that people are getting distracted and exited about guestimating numbers, and i am contributing it….. I just thought, since people were really into it, the high school graduates number will provide an accurate baseline and those with expertise in demographics could do their calculation.

As expected the Admiral’s pen delivers once again a concise and almost impregnable indictment of the incumbent government of the State of Eritrea. When gems such as the above presentation come forth from one side or the other of our Eritrean bipartisan divide, i.e pro/opp, I wish a serious rebuttal from the opposing isle is produced and immediately disseminated through out all available media. Much like the Democrats Response to a Republican administration or vice versa here in the state on the occasion of say the State of the Union significant event. And this gem Saay7 has constructed is the Eritrean Opposition response to the significant event of the the Eritrean State complying with the ACHPR mandate and producing the =>100 page report. My point is the lack in challenging on at least a handful of the 57 points by Saay7 from within the opposition and or certainly by the pro Eritrean State proponents. This shortcoming I am pointing is indicative first and foremost of the stubborn and rigidity in denying the full recognition of one another from both opposing isles of our Eritrean powers. With the intent to elaborate even more on my observation, an observation that dates back to the fall of 2002 when I packed my Camry with over 2500 copies of the Eritrean constitution and drove four hours from NYC to the DC festivals with the intent to distribute it to the revelers…
The gear shift now is the following. I will play the lottery in hopes of winning $3.65M with the following numbers I extracted from Saay7’s list of 57. Why $3.65M? Well… because now that I have the definitive from the authorities of that the Eritrean population is 3.65M, I simply have the desire to give each and every Eritrean One Dollar Each and commence my campaign of “One People, One Dollar!” The Counter Narrative 2018 continuing with the 2017 The Imperative Narrative theme. What am I rambling about any or every reader may ask? The numbers without further delay are #34, #43, #51, #54, #55, #57 with the option to draw 6 more numbers for the doubling down to point out the alternative thoughts the Admiral Saay7 may have a blind side to. And so it is my hope that both the author Saay7 and all readers on the above 6 points and take advantage of the heads up to contemplate what could possibly be flawed with these six points of my subset. And for me the advantage of time to compose a well thought out counter narrative in say a days or two time.

What do I address His Fantines Ghana my Tokhrir brother is another thought you or anyone may be thinking now. Two reasons: 1. To personally congratulate you my friend oh wise Hippo of the Tekeze ma Tokhrir brother of the Ethiopian success thus far of the peaceful orderly through politics transfer of power and the election of Dr. Abbi AHemed.
2. The following observation and question with regards to the data excerpt you have shared.
a) Notice with the drastic drop of nearly 1.2M of Eritrean population in 2015, the demand for cereal remaining constant there is an anomaly of the percentage ratio. A jump from 6.5% to 8.5% that sticks out like a sore thum. Regression analysis of smooth line trend indicates there is a grave error or a significant correction of previous population estimates that could possibly have been purposely inflated for political and embezzlement purposes by numerous and all actors. What do you suppose some of those things could have been? Please give it thought.

b) The demand for cereal, evidently by Eritrea’s neediest hovering around the constant number 300K or 6.5% ratio is credible data as it is analogous to the unemployment rate for a healthy American economy. Unemployed or in dire need or demand of cereal from the total population. Lets add #20 and #15 for the power ball candidates. What about yr 2015 forced a drastic and emphatic data correction? please give it though. I have a theory.

Confused good… wait for the book 2002-2018 the constitution farce circa yr end or early ’19 PRIME NUMBER…. The answer my friend is blowing in the wind.

“the global total number of refugees and asylum seekers from Eritrea stood at 444,091, about 12 percent of the population of the country.”

A certain Omer Abdelkerim, writing for shabait.com, wrote: “This great discrepancy raises alarming questions and is highly reflective of the considerable methodological and analytical shortcomings of the COIE.” Why? Because he wanted to deflate the numerator (the asylum seekers and refugees are not Eritreans) and inflate the denominator (because CoIE should have used UNHCR’s erroneous population for Eritrea. He said this despite the fact that Yemane Gebreab had said (in his presser at Geneva) that Eritrea’s population is “almost 4 million”, despite the fact that Eritrean Statistics Office used the 3.5 number. Do you think now that the State of Eritrea has disclosed the resident population is 3.65 million he will apologize to CoIE or admit he was wrong? No, because that’s not how pro-government activists are wired. You can never agree with the enemy because ጸላእትና ከይሕጎሱ!

The debate is going by proxy: Eritrean activists are in Mauritania right now (for the African Commission meeting) and I am sure the Eritrean ambassador will give them dirty looks and call them Kedemti and then the echo chamber will repeat it. That is debate Eritrean-style in 2018.

It has been and remain so going forward my desire that the Admiral Saay7’s directives are followed and heeded to into action by all readers particularly the Eritreans demanding for civil government to ascend and lead our nation. I am of the belief that the Admiral is second to no Eritrean with respect to diagnosing our ailment first and recommending the remedy. However, I see numerous hints indicating Saay7 has decided to follow a quasi text book formula to stand on and follow consistently without veering MErKebna’s to steer the sails towards alternative routs. I feel as if he is obligated and committed towards a road map either by contract or his full acceptance of “incremental gains” as being the maximizing formula. In spite of Saay7’s very lacking in having blind spots, by design he is neglecting very obvious variable and at times quantifying or measuring them erroneously intentionally maybe. Allow me to illustrate and chisel a little here at Saay7’s Eritrea Overdue gem:

Very skillfully, the Admiral gives his followers a DIRECTIVE without appearing to do so. Towards the end of his presentation as he neared the conclusion, the closing strong points he built up was quantity and quality of Eritrea’s current demographics. Saay7 concludes by stating the only gain or take away from State of Eritrea’s more than 100 page report to ACHPR is the official disclosure of Eritrea’s population count as of 2015. Then the Admiral gives his command for all to scrutinize the 3.65M count as the worth while issue or topic for debate. And the majority comments and discussions obeyed the Admiral’s directive. And I am glad the forum has and will continue to execute our MeraKhbna fleet’s Admiral directives.
All the demographics of Eritrea comments should be and will be summarized I am sure. For me however the contentions of the previous six picked from the 57 points, which have risen to nearly 20 or more from 57 now, is what Eritreans should give more import. Whereas directives of the like Eritrea’s population count scrutiny provide sustainable fuel necessary for the preferred “incremental gains” road may, a thorough honest scrutiny of such variables and all as well as a clearer with minimal blind side utilization of all the functions and environment these variables are input to can and would serve for a more efficacy accelerated relief to Eritrea’s problems at hand. Late nineties and into the first decade of the millennium GINSU, as in Ginsu knives, was the data mining, chopping, parsing, polishing and cleaning tool yours truly utilized as the Admiral is aware of, in order to prepare tens of thousands lives contingent events data to be input into models or functions for short term as well as long term forecast projections with numerous parameter assumptions and scenarios. The numerous speculations and theories on the arrival of the population count will prove to be valuable and pertinent focus by the forum. All the rationals, effects and consequences argued are significant for the small population count of 3.65M. The birth rate of Average African states employed in the compounding algebraic formula does not give due considerations to case specific contingent events. The circa 4M Eritrean population has been subjected to not so quite and serene contingent events the average African State has endured in the past three decades. The mortality rate of Eritreans in the past decade has to consider the thousands of lives lost in such tragic events such as Lampadusa. There are a handful known Lampadusa 300 to 700 lives lost perhaps possibly numerous unaccounted for lost ships with survivals less hundreds lost souls unknown. The significant Lost Eritreans virtual posters, the zrrAye ‘ntelo boards of late are maybe indicative of this and or the Eritreans bought and sold for spare parts in the deserts of Sinai of the Mojave. For a small nation’s population to begin with, we must realize the compounding effects on the total these contingent events contribute. In addition to migration’s effect, the high number of secondary education graduates Eritrea is churning out, irrespective of quality of education disputes and refutes, post independent Eritreans are more educated than their predecessors or other African States who churned out eight nine…twelve of-springs. Other rational for the low count may could be what the Eritrean government considers to be the dependable Eritrean citizen definition for its purposes. Also for every valuation purpose there are methods and parameters used to arrive at the output count. In maximum or minimum funding valuations of defined benefits pension funds, for example, a higher discounting factor than that of current liabilities rates is utilized. A higher discounting factor produces a smaller present value liability amount, where as a lower discount factor produces a larger magnitude. This is to say the numerous present value valuations by the State of Eritrea and outside institutions do employ numerous variable parameters and assumptions for their valuation count. In short a thorough summary of these discussions should and will be pursued.

My focus, and hopefully shortly, is to address the contentions among the 57 points listed. Every and all of you algebra gurus will agree the solution to an equation is dependent on the given variables. The given variables are not adequately assessed or measured nor are the functions and environment these given variables are staged on honestly with precision painted with respect to the Eritrean issues. Take the Jehova Witnesses, Afar and Kunama mentions as well as the fact of nearly every post colonial African State regimes PURGES and LIQUIDATIONS.
The 2018 Counter Narrative of “One People, One Dollar” 3point65- 365 days 10K/per day will do just this to perhaps generate discussion and or illuminate the blind spots the Admiral and the like are inflicted with….. …..

Note: Pay attention to FishMilk who with his first comment in this thread and elsewhere seems to be inclined to define all the variables and environment as they are and not as we wish them to be. We can not expect the results desired to materialize if our input variables are of the kind wished for as opposed to what they really are. Will be backed with a more coherent argumentation hopefully shortly…

AmErigitSAtSE Counter Narrative 2018 “One People, One Dallar!” NessafiH per days 365 in year for 3.65M population.

Abbu AAshera Weapon X – Evolution

Fanti Ghana

Selamat Brotherey GitSAtSE,

I wish you would write 10 pages a day! It takes a great mind to construct words the way you do and have the sentences produced only positive energy. Bizey QalAlem, I envy you.

I thought about several possible scenarios for the 3.65m including politically or financially motivated agendas as Saay mentioned below. It was when I saw the constant demand for cereal line in the report (page 27) from 1992 – 2015 that I suspected the 3.65m may be out of sync.

There has been two notable population declines in Eritrea since 1906. One in 1921 and another in 1992. The 1992 is understandable, but the 1921 decline from the previous year which was also true for Ethiopia, needs historians to explain it. I suspect a major regional drought or flood.

The earliest population count I could find was 1906 = 279,600 and the growth trend ever since seems consistent up until 2015. Mind you, the consistency also held when I calculated the few numbers I could find on population count by AWRAJA when Eritrea was federated with Ethiopia.

So, the choices are either the intermittent 30 or so years I “investigated” and found to be consistent are all wrong or the one the government reported is wrong.

However, I am willing to wait with open mind in case either the number of refugees is much higher than we believe or fertility rate has declined to a dangerous level in the last ten or so years, or may be something else I haven’t considered.

Kbrom

Hi Fanti,

Please help your expertise is needed.

The stat from UNICEF puts

Population 5,228,000 (2016)

The same UNICEF has put the population in 2012 at 6,130,900 with 2.6% population annual growth rate 2012-2030

Where is that big discrepancies coming from? How can a countries’ population goes down from 6.139 (2012) to 5.2 (2018) with projection of 2.6% growth rate?

FishMilk

Hi Kbrom. The Government of Eritrea has for long purposely underestimated Eritrea’s population to misleadingly show that its economic and health related achievements are greater than in reality; the later being used by the PFDJ in their propaganda on Eritrea’s achievements against earlier U.N. Millenium Development Goals and current U.N. Strategic Development Goals. Most U.N. agencies and diplomatic missions in Eritrea believe the countries’ population to now be around 5.2 million. Keep in mind that UNICEF and others, can only make population estimates through extrapolation using data such as the number or newborns or children under the age of 5 years old. The process of estimating Eritrea’s population is therefore constantly under revision as it integrates whatever new source of tertiary data that become available.

Kbrom

Hi FishMilk

Fair enough, that makes much sense. If I may ask, what is the main purpose of misleadingly giving wrong number, I read with great attention your reasoning as to ‘ show that its economic and health related achievements are greater’. I am just looking for more convincing factor/s and its elaboration/s.

Thanks.

FishMilk

Hi Kbrom. Per Capital Income for example, has been calculated by using
Gross National Income divided by the total population, so less population means higher Per Capita Income. With Millenium Developments Goals (MDGs), targets such as Proportion of people whose income is less than one dolllar a day, Number of children who complete a full course of primary schooling, Percentage of population using condums, Proportion of people with sustained access to safe drinking water, Percentage of children reached by immunization programs, etc.; are easily manipulated in a positive way by simply lowering the base population.

When dia was told that the international media is saying that about 4000 eritreans leave the country every month, his response was, “although he does not believe the number, even if it true, it is not that bad, because the exodus helps raise the per capita income of the people.” All this on eri tv. What an audacious person!

Abraham H.

Selam Horizon, the Tigrinya word ንዕቀት does not suffice to describe how much Isayas and his regime look down at their own people; that is if he really consider the people as his people, which I strongly doubt.

Abraham H.

Selam Fishmilk, and could we even rely on the GDP figure given by the regime, how could we belive it is true, I mean it is very hard trying to deal with a thief.

FishMilk

Hi Abraham H. PIA is detached, iinward-looking, isolated from reality and from what people think. Unfortunately, his view of his importance and invulnerability is constantly being reinforced by a small cadre of yes-yes men. The major problem inside Eritrea, is that there surprisingly still remains a sizeable percentage of the population that is neutral to the regime in that it only maintains an unorganized and unarmed level of resistance.

Abrehet Yosief

Selam Kibrom
You will also notice lower school registration from one year to the other. I will look for it but if I remember correctly it was report on CEDAW. I remember being surprised to see decrease in STD and decrease in use of protection as well. And no boom in child birth. So something was not correct. Either the young are not there or they are kept apart. Both result in lower than expected birth rate.

Kbrom

Selam Abrehet,

One can say what do you expect from a government who compares itself with its arch enemy coloniser. Look at this report by Shabait.com: The Eritrean Cabinet of Ministers held a meeting yesterday…… Mr. XXXXXX, reported that substantial investment has been made to develop the education sector which had been limited to few areas under the Ethiopian colonial rule. In 1991, there were only 393 schools all over Eritrea. With the efforts made by the Government, the number rose to 1700.

Fanti Ghana

Selamat A. Kibrom,

There are several possible reasons. For one thing these agencies don’t have as much access and capacity to make accurate head count every year, so they use other mechanisms to come up with an estimate. UNICEF is placed in a good position to be aware of serious fluctuations but I doubt if they do course correction every year.

However, if birth rate is low, death rate high, and the number of refugee leaving the country are anywhere near what is rumored (5,000/mo), it wouldn’t be unusual for population count to go down. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the government’s version is correct, but it would mean that other figures would have to be corrected accordingly.

saay7

Selam Fantiness:

I think the most reliable census — because we had an interest to show the level of enthusiasm, because it was witnessed by a third party, UNOVR– was an event overseen by the Referendum Commission of Eritrea (RCE.) Here you had an alignment of parties concerned: the GoE wanted to show the process was free, fair and transparent. And the UN wanted to ensure that people who would normally be overlooked–prisoners, combatants, women–would be accommodated and it paid 4.3 million to make it happen. I am only focused here on the campaign INSIDE Eritrea since, outside Eritrea, there were factors that dissuaded some from registering to vote. One was the ID card one had to show, an ID card that some felt was too Shaebiyayish; the other was that one had to prove one was Eritrean to vote using the traditional Eritrean methodology and that required bringing 3 witnesses and it disadvantaged those who were introverts. Leaving the expat Eritreans aside (for our purposes all we are trying to establish is resident Eritreans), the challenge was the deadline: a lot had to be done in a short time, in a culture totally unused to casting ballots.

I used the UNICEF ratio of 1:1 (population under 18 and over 18) but I could just have easily referenced the UNOVER report: because in 1993 Eritrea experienced the so-called youth bulge “approximately 50 percent of the Eritrean population was less than 18 years old.”

We have those who were registered to vote inside Eritrea including the IDPs, combatants and some prisoners. We have the turn-out (how many of those who were registered to vote actually voted). We have the over 18 and under 18 breakdown. The only thing we don’t have for that period is how many of the resident Eritreans who were eligible to vote did not register to vote. This is the only guesswork I did: 95% of those eligible to register actually registered. I am saying that given that even IDPs were registered to vote, even 70 thousand non-resident Eritreans actually showed up during the referendum days to vote inside Eritrea (make-shift booths made for them in Asmara), I will say that 95% of those who were eligible actually registered. (but I would love to hear your take on it.) This is what leads me to believe the resident population in 1993 was 1.8 million.

So, I think that your number is like laying kitchen tiles: a small mistake in aligning the first tile results in a big mess a few tiles later. What do you think? 🙂

saay

Fanti Ghana

Sela Saay,

Okay. I will take this 1.8m residents as reliable enough compared to the sources I am relying on. Based on 1994 report by Awraja, I have 2.8m total but it does not indicate whether that includes refugees. Let’s assume it does, and taking your number as a reliable base for residents, 2.8m as a combined total does not seem too farfetched, because we had a good estimate of 500,000+ in the Sudan and about 350,000 refugees in Ethiopia alone.

So, let’s put the total for 1993 as 2.8m conservative. Let’s also put growth rate at 2.5% annual ( a little less than the average for Sub-Sahara). According to these numbers, 2015 = 4,820,400, subtract refugees and the government’s figure, assuming it is residents only, is almost correct. It now only needs to explain why demand for cereal went seriously up only for the year 2015.

PS:
I have a program that calculates these type of numbers. So, if you need any related calculations or if you want to know what year was it when there where only two Eritreans on earth, I am your man!

saay7

Fantiness:

Oh, wow, buddy I am impressed. But I shouldn’t be, because you are Fanti and you ooze Fantiness:) One data geek is dangerous enough, two of us will get an intervention from awatistas….but before they do:

If you take my 1993 numbers of 1.8 million and you take Mr. Noyb’s number of 1997 as 2.6 million, that is an amazing 9.3% annualized growth rate. So when I call that period Eritrea’s “honeymoon period” many people misinterpret that to mean that I am praising the PFDJ. What I mean is that there was an amazing level of optimism with people returning back to the country, having babies and no indefinite national service.

saay

Kbrom

Dear saay7

9.3% annualized growth rate is absolutely impossible even in ‘chocholatemooon period’. Average family size has decreased dramatically in Eritrea since 1993. Even in the rural areas because of the intensive activity ( by design) of the family planing programs and the economic situation and change of life style etc the fertility rate has decreased significantly all over the Eritrea .

Just when we are there…..
There was an incident in one remote village during the family planing session. The officer was teaching about using condoms to control birth rate, since the participants were middle aged, to be polite enough, the officer (she) was demonstrating how to use condoms by putting it in her index finger with out mentioning names of the objectives.

When she came back to the village one year later, she found out all families with their new babies, and then asked what happen? the village elders replied ‘Sister your instruction did not bring any change we did exactly what you did (put the condoms in our right hand index finger) but did not work at all.

saay7

Very funny Kbrom:

But, kind sir, Syria had a 7.9% population growth in 2017. So say the experts.

What do we know of life in Eritrea between 1993 and 1997?

1. Infant mortality rate began to decrease dramatically;
2. Maternal mortality rate began to improve;
3. Expats began to return home
4 It was the only time when we didn’t have any wars (not counting the very short-lived war in Yemen);
5. Migration was practically unheard of.

So I actually find it credible. Moreover, we are talking about a small base so the percentages are not as huge as they sound.

saay

Kbrom

Dear saay

With the ‘parachute experts’ stat (who land in the country for a three day workshop) the figures are not representative hence academic debates and policies rely too often on outdated or poor quality statistics, or just unrepresentative case study evidence.

1 and 2 are true in Asmara but not in the southern part of the country where some attribute 800,000 population all together Akeleghuzaty and Seraye. Infant mortality rate and Maternal mortality rate did not decrease dramatically in remote areas such as Omhajer, Una Andom, Tsorona at that time. Remember the major cause of mortality rate was malaria which account for 32% of outpatient visits and 24% of hospital adissions at government health facilities at that time.

5. Migration was practically unheard of but trust me those ተጽግቦም ቅጫ ኣብ መቕሎኣ ከላ ዝፈልጥዋ migrated to Addis in hundreds. It was not heard off as it was considered as if it is leaving a hopeful situation and there was no restriction nevertheless many left on those heydays.

blink

Dear Fanti
Are you for real or joking ? I mean seriously Fanti. You know some people can analyse this and draw a big nose and I hope you mean kidding about the PFDJ population jack .

Mez

Dear Saay and all,

You presented a great work. Thank you for your time and effort to do it. I didn’t even knew about the existance of African Commission on Human and People’s Rights (ACHPR).

You synthesized most relevant line items presented by the Eritrean government in a concise way by contrasting what is said in their report to what we know on the ground–the approximate reality back home.

I think the ACHPR shall be a key foundation for any Political, NGO, or Social movement on the African Continent.

Thanks

iSem

Hi Sal and Hope:
Hope, yes the article is based on chbtti as PFDJ like to say and the Sal is a believer on the data driven debate, as it should be. I believe the article serves two purposes: that our problems are not due to lack of laws, but due to lack of implementing the. If Eritrea even implemented the EPLF program it will far better off, even if it has implemented the “hgi endaba” it would be even much much better. It is no brainier. I even go further to just tickle some and infuriate others with truth. If PFDJ is lazy they could have just asked their former buddies in TPLF and borrowed or stole their ethnic federalism, borrowed their EPRDF coalition and made collation with the traditional opposition instead of hunting them down, Eritrea would be much much better than it is
I know we blame all our ills to Gizie, but we must all give credit to TIME in advance as it will one day end PFDJ, challenge is what do we do when TIME does its thing, how do we reverse the damage PFDJ has inflicted: the stolen land, the destroyed lives, the mass graves, the crime network that will be their legacy.
Question is how can we force the gun owners (PFDJ) convince them to implement. We cannot. They have made up their minds to destroy and we have to make up our minds to defend out lives, dignity, posterity. We have to choose whether to be ambivalent or steadfast on the issue of PFDJ’s resolve to destroy Eritrea. We have to get over the dishonesty that paints PFJ as our political adversaries that disagrees with us on how to run our affairs and supplant that with integrity of PFDJ’s mission. Once we internalize that, once we come to terms with it we have no problem, our diversity can be harnessed for force of good
I liked this piece for a different reason: for its parallelism, for its effortless use of assyndeton

At a time when our next door countries in Africa are enjoying prosperity, at a time when when Eritrea is approaching 30 years of age, at a time when the Africa is booming, at a time when technology is able to alleviate the myriad societal issues, at at time when the human race is better off, Eritreans are starving, Eritreans are dying in proportion to the European plague of the dark -ages. 😉