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[3.5 PrC] Want a dose of Time Shenanigans to go with that build, sir? (PEACH)

WEAVER OF THE THREADS THAT BIND

“Do not wish to pursue this foolishness. I have seen all of its outcomes even before you thought about it. In none of them does the ending seem too good for you. Or perhaps you are curious to see the infinite ways in which you shall die?" – Julian Locke, a Weaver of the Thread that Binds

Time. An event, a measurement, an entity so mysterious, its true nature lost even to the gods, its truth the ageless immortals can only hope to comprehend. Some say it flows, like a river, originating from the spring of the distant past, making its way through the fleeting present, and ending into the sea of the ever obscured future. Others say it is nothing; not an event, or even a thing. It does not flow. It is only a concept, a form of rationalization for the seemingly ordered events we see as the passing of Time. For some, it has definite beginning and a definite end; an alpha and an omega. To others, Time is cyclic; it is an endless cycle of destruction and rebirth. But there are a few who have been given the knowledge of the Threads that Bind, by Time itself. It is them who understand Time is all of this, at the same time it is not. They walk among mortals and immortals alike, not too different from you or me. The only difference is the power they possess.

They call themselves the Weavers of the Threads that Bind.

BECOMING A WEAVER OF THE THREADS THAT BIND

One cannot just become an Weaver. Rather, one is chosen to become a Weaver. Weavers themselves do not know why they are chosen, why they have become who they are, or how they become so. And Time does not seem to have any preference; known Weavers have come from a vast variety of class, race, and power. But they all do share one common experience: at some point in their life, their threads had been cut short.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTSSkills: Knowledge (history) 7 ranks, any one class skill 13 ranksFeats: Improved Initiative, Iron WillSpecial: Must have died in the process of doing something to fulfill one’s desire, and a strong will to live to carry on their task, at the point when the other requirements are all met. The body will disappear for a week and return to the spot where she died, given life anew and more.

Weapon Proficiencies: The Weaver of the Threads that Bind does not gain any proficiency in any weapon, armor, or shield.

Duality of Existence: As the warrior or the magus is called to become a Weaver, she is imbued with the knowledge possessed by Time, and she learns of the truth of her new existence: that she exists as neither a Weaver nor her old self, she exists as both. As the Weaver gains levels, she advances one of the following (chooses one at her discretion if she is eligible for more than one) progressions:

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Spellcasting: At each level except at 1st, 5th, and 9th, the Weaver gains new spells per day, spells known, and an increase in caster level as if she gained a level in another spellcasting class to which the Weaver belonged before choosing this prestige class. The Weaver does not, however, gain any other increase in benefits from her old class. If the Weaver has multiple applicable spellcasting classes before becoming a Weaver, she must choose which one gains the extra casting.

Maneuvers/Stances: At each odd-numbered level, the Weaver gain a new maneuver known from Devoted Spirit, Iron Heart, Riven Hourglass, plus 2 other disciplines that she has at least one maneuver. The Weaver must meet the prerequisite for the maneuver to learn it. The Weaver adds the Weaver full Weaver levels to her initiator level to determine her total initiator level and her highest-level maneuvers known. At 3rd level, 6th level, and 9th level, the Weaver gains an additional maneuver readied per day.

At 5th level, the Weaver gains a new martial stance known from the Devoted Spirit, Diamond Mind or Riven Hourglass, Tiger Claw, and White Raven disciplines. The Weaver must meet a stance's prerequisite to learn it.

Class Ability: The Weaver can choose to progress a class abilities such as Sneak Attack, Favored Enemies, Rage, and others. Abilities that gain higher versions, like the Ranger's Combat Style, can also be selected for the purpose of this ability. The Weaver adds the her full Weaver levels to the class level having the ability she wishes to progress for determining at what levels she acquires them. For classes with more than one ability progression, the Weaver chooses one.

PP per Day/Powers Known/Maximum Power Level Known: The Weaver gains additional Power Points per day as written in the table Psionics. The Weaver gains additional powers know at a rate as written in the table. The values written per level stack for Power Points per day and Powers Known (A level 3 Weaver will have PP/ day equal to her PP/day from her base class +8 + 10 + 11 = PP/day from base class + 29 and powers known equal to Powers known from her base class +1 +1 +1 = Powers known from her base class + 3). Also, at 1st, 4th, 6th, and 9th levels, the Weaver gains one level on her Maximum Power Level Known.

{table=head]Level|Power Points Per Day|Powers Known|Maximum Power Level Known
1st|

+8

|

+1

|

+1 to Maximum Power Level

2nd|

+10

|

+1

|

-

3rd|

+11

|

+1

|

-

4th|

+12

|

+1

|

+1 to Maximum Power Level

5th|

+14

|

+1

|

-

6th|

+16

|

+1

|

+1 to Maximum Power Level

7th|

+18

|

+1

|

-

8th|

+20

|

+1

|

-

9th|

+21

|

+1

|

+1 to Maximum Power Level

10th|

+22

|

+1

|

-

[/table]

Knowledge of All Things Bound (Ex): With death comes the calling. With the calling comes acceptance. With acceptance comes rebirth. And with rebirth comes knowledge unbound. By accepting the call of Time, the Weaver is bestowed with the knowledge of everything that transpired, is transpiring, or will transpire, for they are all one and encompassed by the Threads that Bind. At 1st level, the Weaver uses her highest mental ability as the key ability for her Knowledge (history). She also gains a bonus to her Knowledge (history) equal to her class level. The Weaver can replace any Knowledge check with her Knowledge (history) check.

In addition, for 3 + the Weaver’s highest mental ability modifier number of times each day, the Weaver can use her Knowledge (history) check to replace any skill check with a mental ability as its key ability or give an insight bonus equal to her half her Weaver class level for skills that have a physical ability as its key ability. This ability does not affect any skill check used against another Weaver of the Threads that Bind that has the Severing the Threads that Bind ability.

Favored by the Threads that Bind (Ex/Su): As a being chosen by Time, the Weaver is unlike any other, receiving protection directly from the Threads that Bind itself. At 2nd level, the Weaver gains fast healing equal to her class level.

As an immediate action, the Weaver can choose to use up her fast healing to recover hit points instantaneously. The Weaver can restore hit points equal to her highest mental ability modifier multiplied by her fast healing value.

Alternatively, the Weaver can choose to use up her fast healing to remove any harmful effects on her. The Weaver can remove any harmful effects that can be removed by a limited wish spell. The number of harmful effects removed is equal to the fast healing value divided by 2 (minimum 1).

The Weaver can also target others with these abilities, requiring her to touch her target. The Weaver's fast healing and can only be recovered after 8 hours of rest. Healing and removing harmful effects are supernatural abilities.

Combat Weaving (Su): As the Weaver begins to understand more of her powers, she begins to see how to manipulate the Threads to aid her in combat. Beginning at 2nd level and every even level thereafter, the Weaver gains new abilities, reflecting her growing knowledge of how Time works.

Entangling Threads: At 2nd level, as a swift action, the Weaver can inflict slow on any creature or object he can see that lasts for 1d4 rounds, with a save DC equal to 10 + class level + the Weaver’s highest mental ability modifier.

Strangling Threads: At 4th level, the Weaver gains an insight bonus equal to 1/2 her class level to all types of damage against any target affected by any time altering effects that the Weaver herself cast. Furthermore, whenever a target is hit by this bonus damage, the target suffers a -1 penalty on all saves for 1d4 rounds. This penalty stacks up to a maximum of -5. The duration is reset to the latest instance that this ability is triggered.

Existence Overlap: At 6th level, as a standard action, the Weaver can create copies of herself. The Weaver can create a number of copies up to a number equal to the number of attacks granted by her BAB for each instance that this ability is used, and this ability can be used up to a number of times per day equal to her highest mental ability modifier.

These copies appear within 60 feet from the Weaver and can act immediately upon creation. They have the same AC and attack bonuses as the Weaver, but they cannot do anything except perform melee attacks. The attacks are melee touch attacks, and when they hit, instead of inflicting damage, they inflict slow for 1d4 rounds on the target with no saving throws and vanish. The clones also vanish when they receive damage of any sort, but they also inflict slow for 1d4 rounds on the attacker regardless of the manner of attack. These clones dissipate after 1d4 rounds.

Isolate Thread: At 8th level, for a number of times per day equal to the Weaver’s highest mental ability mod, as an immediate action, whenever the Weaver hits an opponent by any form of attack or is hit by any form of attack, she can alter the threads around her target or attacker.

For 1d4 rounds, the target is removed from the current reality; what the target perceives from this point on is a loop in time that diverges from the actual present timeline beginning at the moment the Weaver’s attack hits or is hit by an attack by the target. All the actions the target does during the duration of this ability do not actually affect anything around him or her, but he or she believes it to be so, and he or she can still be attacked or damaged as normal.

The target can negate this effect by rolling a successful Will save with a DC equal to 10 + class level + the Weaver’s highest mental ability modifier. The target also gets to roll a Will save of the same DC each round that it is affected by the abilty to notice the effect.

Symphony of the Threads (Su): At 10th level, once per encounter, the Weaver can project an aura with a radius of 60 feet as a swift action for a number of rounds equal to half her class level rounded down. Within this aura, the Weaver claims dominion and extends her own threads, apart from the main thread, and can freely alter the time of all creatures as a free action on her turn, or as an immediate action.

The effects that the Weaver can bestow or remove are as follows: haste, slow, and temporal stasis. With this ability, inflicting temporal stasis is resolved as a ranged touch attack with a range equal to the area of the ability, and each use of the temporal stasis counts against the number of uses of temporal stasis given by the Severe the Threads that Bind ability. Saves are granted as normal, with the DC equal to 10 + class level + the Weaver’s highest mental ability modifier.

The Weaver can inflict only one time effect per creature per round, and she can only either bestow or remove a time effect on each creature per round.
The Weaver can only affect a number of creatures equal to her highest mental ability modifier at any given time. For creatures affected with time effects, the effects must either wear off or be removed by the Weaver or others before they can be affected with the same time effect. The effects last for as long as the ability is active and the target creature is within the area of the ability.

The Weaver can also forego the normal function of this ability to instead move through a different dimension of Time, making it seem that everything has ceased to move except her. This has the same effect as the time stop spell. As all time altering effects, this ability, in all its uses, does not affect another Weaver with the Severing the Threads that Bind ability.

Sense the Tremors (Ex): By being attuned to the Threads that Bind, the Weaver notices every ripple and every movement of everything that has Time. She is also drawn to any fluctuations in the Threads, such that what happens when someone tries to manipulate time. At 3rd level, the Weaver gains perception to any living being within a radius of 30 feet, as if she has blindsight, only better. The Weaver does not have to have line of sight with any creature to know its whereabouts, as long as it is within the range of this ability; she knows a creature is there just by the mere fact that it exists. This also means no effect, magical or otherwise, can block this ability from detecting a creature. At 9th level, the range extends to 60 feet.

The ability also allows the Weaver to detect any disturbances in Time, and she can sense any use of time magic within 1 mile at 3rd level; she can sense any use of Slow, Haste, Time Stop, Temporal Stasis, Celerity, Lesser Celerity, Augury, Divination, Time Hop, Temporal Acceleration, Time Regression, and Quintessence of any form, as well as spells, spell-likes, supernatural, psionic powers or any ability that has mention of time manipulation in its description. By focusing herself in one full round action, she can ascertain the relative power of these disturbances (similar to Aura Strength when using detect magic). By 9th level, the Weaver can sense any disturbance in time within 10 miles, and by focusing herself in one full round action, she can home in on one such disturbance and detect what type of disturbance it is (ie if magic, what spell it is). This feature, as well as the blindsight feature of this ability, does not work on other Weavers who have the Severing the Threads that Bind ability.

Severing the Threads that Bind (Ex/Su): By being chosen, the Weaver is removed from the threads that bind all things, from Time itself. At 5th level, the Weaver becomes immune to the ravages of time. As such, she ceases to age, therefore she is not subject to penalties on physical ability scores due to age, but still gains the bonuses to mental ability scores. She does not lose the penalties she has already accrued before becoming a Weaver. The Weaver also becomes immune to all time altering effects targeted at her from any source; she cannot be affected by Slow, Haste, Time Stop, Temporal Stasis, Celerity, Lesser Celerity, Augury, Divination, Time Hop, Temporal Acceleration, Time Regression, and Quintessence of any form, as well as spells, spell-likes, supernatural, psionic powers or any ability that has mention of time manipulation in its description, though she can choose which ones can affect her or not.

The Weaver can also impart this ability to other creatures or objects for a number of times per day equal to her highest mental ability modifier. But being not chosen by Time, they react differently. Instead, when they are cut off from the Threads that Bind, their Time stops, and they remain locked in time and space, as if under the temporal stasis spell. This use of the ability is a supernatural effect. The Weaver has to touch the object or creature in order for this ability to work, and it requires a standard action. The target can make a Fort save with a DC equal to 10 + class level + the Weaver’s highest mental ability modifier to resist the effect. Objects or creatures affected by this ability cannot be damaged or moved by any means.

Using the temporal stasis effect of this ability on objects uses one instance of the ability, however using it on creatures uses up 4 instances of the ability. This is reduced to 2 uses at level 10. Releasing objects or creatures from this effect is a free action.

Dance of the Threads (Ex/Su): At 7th level, the Weaver can freely make tiny jumps between the different Threads to escape the brunt of damage from any source, and in some instances, negate them completely. She gains damage reduction DR/- equal to her class level.

As an immediate action, the Weaver can choose use up her damage reduction to negate all damage or negative effects she suffered for the whole round, as if that round never happened. This part of the ability is a supernatural effect. The Weaver recovers her damage reduction after 8 hours of rest.

Blind Weaver (Ex/Su): At 9th level, the Weaver has mastered the intricacies of the Threads such that he has no problem tracing the location of any object or creature in existence without much thought and effort. By spending a full round action in concentration, the Weaver can find any object she has seen once, or just through a description, or seeing someone who has seen the object or creature. Also, once per day, as a standard action, the Weaver can ride the Threads to the location of any object or creature. This ability functions like a greater teleport spell, except this also works even across planar boundaries. This teleport ability is a supernatural effect.

Platonia: World of Forms (Su): The Weaver becomes an embodiment of Time herself, and can exert her own existence as she sees fit. At 10th level, as an immediate action, the Weaver of the Threads that Bind can choose any reality for a given point in time, such that she suddenly appears at any other point in space within 1 mile from her current location, as she assumes another ‘Now’, for a number of times per day equal to her highest mental ability modifier.

When the Weaver uses this ability, she has an option to leave a copy of herself at her previous location, but doing so costs another 2 uses of the ability (appearing in another place and leaving a copy costs 3 uses of the ability). This copy is exactly the same as the Weaver in all aspect, and can even perform any ability she knows except this one. However, all copies and the real Weaver share the same pool of uses per day for all her abilities that have uses per day (including spells, maneuvers, class abilities from other classes, etc.), and all of them share the limitations of abilities in terms of when they are usable (ie when one copy executes a maneuver, no other copy, even the Weaver, can use that maneuver unless the copy that initiated it recovers it). Also, only one copy can use an ability that has a duration of more than one round at any given time, such as Rage or the Symphony of the Threads ability. Copies last for 1d6 rounds, after which they dissipate into nothingness. Only two copies can exist simultaneously; creating a third one dissipates one of the existing clones.

PLAYING A WEAVER OF THE THREADS THAT BIND

Being a Weaver does not necessarily give one an unique set of playing style as a class. The playing style of one particular Weaver would be largely affected by her base class/classes; a melee focused class becoming a Weaver uses the abilities of a Weaver very differently from a caster becoming one.

Combat: At lower levels, the Weaver will rely more on her base class abilities with a hint of her Weaving abilities to inflict slow and added damage to her foes. As the Weaver increases in levels, she can begin to employ her abilities in tandem with her base class' abilities. For those with melee base classes, you can use Isolate Thread offensively, either by initiating it through melee attacks or by provoking attacks, while casters or ranged fighters can use them defensively when being picked out by stealthy enemies or casters. At higher levels, the Weaver can use Existence Overlap and Symphony of the Threads to control the battlefield, and you can effectively pick out which opponent to focus on first.

Advancement: The Weaver is independent of any class one might wish to take, as the abilities of the class serve to be supplemental or different all together, although there might be some that would complement it more than others.

Resources: The Weaver does not particularly need of any resource, except maybe magical items to boost mental ability scores, as most of her abilities work off her highest mental ability score.

WEAVERS OF THE THREADS THAT BIND IN THE WORLD

"Yes, yes! I remember now! I used to play with him when we were but wee little lads. But, how?! I am old and withered, and yet he still looks like how he looked like back then when he left this village!! ...or is that his son? - old man Frau, on a Weaver going back to his old village.

Weavers sprout from any race, of any age, and of any class. And they are a rare breed, something that is dependent on the whims of the Threads. Different Weavers cope up with the change differently; some are largely unaffected, continuing their lives like normal, others grow a sense of justice, believing their new life to be given for doing good, while others are corrupted by the sheer power, knowledge, and the prospect of eternal life.

Daily Life: A Weaver's daily life is not too different from what she used to do, or entirely different at all, depending on how they took the change. Most of them will try to find the reasons why they have become who they are.

Notables: It is hard to identify Weavers, as most of them try to hide their identity, moving from place to place when they have stayed long enough for their physical appearance to have changed. Most try live on the road and other still live a life of solitude, away from all civilization. But there are those who marked some of the darkest times in history, when they used their powers to claim dominion of their own planes, or even multiple ones. One such event happened 500 years ago, when an exiled githyanki named Kii'na was given the powers of the Threads, corrupting him and sending him into a rampage, destroying and killing everything in his plane, and he was about to bring his madness into other planes when an unknown warrior appeared, seemingly possessing the same powers of the githyanki, and vanquished the latter in single combat.

Organizations: Since Weavers are so rare, the probability of one meeting another Weaver, much less come together and form some sort of organization. However, there is an unspoken respect between individual Weavers, knowing full well the abilities that they possess, and chooses to maintain a distance between each other, unless they have similar goals, or are faced with conflict of interests.

NPC REACTION

Most people have not heard of a Weaver, and when they see the Weaver displaying her abilities, they could easily mistake her as a wizard or other class capable of time magic. Those few who have heard of one, though, would react according to the rumor they have heard of the class.

WEAVERS OF THE THREADS THAT BIND IN THE GAME

The Weaver's abilities make it a class that can supplement any base class. Duality of Existence allows the character to select which type of progression especially when multi-classed, increasing the synchronization of the class with its base class, and most of the rest of the abilities are independent of any class ability, but provide added options to what their base classes already have.

Adaptation: Since Time exists in all settings, it is very easy to integrate this class into all settings.

Encounters: If the players have committed serious transgressions to time, (ie abusing time magic for personal ends or using it over and over) this may very well attract the attention of a fanatic Weaver to come and punish them. Weavers can also be very appropriate for the main antagonist of the game, as the class and its abilities are perfect for, say, a madman hellbent on conquering the entire planes.
________________________

Re: [3.5 PrC] Want a dose of Time Shenanigans to go with that build, sir? (PEACH)

First impressions? HELLACIOUSLY overpowered.

At level 1: You make every Knowledge other than history utterly redundant, and every skill check based on a mental stat pretty much redundant. You also utterly eliminate the need for INT if you want to run off a different stat. Going in as a caster, you can easily get 10 skill replacements per day, more than you're likely to make.

At level 2: Fast healing 1 is very good. Not overpowered, but very strong. The ability to discharge it to remove status effects is even better. Hang on, it's not fast healing 1, it's fast healing equal to your class level? Damn. And at-will slow as a swift action? That's horrible.

At level 3: Detection unbeatable by any means whatsoever? Even Darkstalker doesn't beat it? That's... bearable, I suppose. Expect the party scout to feel redundant. Detecting time magic is situational so not too powerful, although 10 miles seems a bit large. You do need to define time magic, though.

At level 4: Bonus damage equal to your class level against (essentially) any enemy? And a stacking saves debuff as well? Moderately disgusting, certainly very strong. Incidentally, how does that interact with, say, Magic Missile, where there are multiple damaging effects in one go? Does the bonus damage apply only once, or once per missile? Because if it's the latter, that's broken.

At level 5: Immunity to aging never comes up in normal games, that's fine. Selective immunity to time-based magic is nice, but again situational, and you still need to define time magic. Although it might let you cast Celerity, then decide that you're immune to the daze. Can it do that?
Temporal Stasis as a (Su) ability, EnoughTM uses per day? Nasty, but you give up a caster level for it (if you're a spellcaster, anyway), so I suppose it's okay. Wait, no, that's an 8th level spell that you're getting at level 13, many times per day. And it has a 5000gp material component which you ignore because it's a (Su) ability. What?

At level 6: Multi-target no-save slow? Starting to get a little silly, but you're minimum level 14 by that point, I think, so by itself it's not too powerful. Still VERY strong.

At level 7: You do realise that that's more than ANY other source of DR/- in the entire game, right? Also the ability to ignore an entire round's worth of effects is extremely strong. You also need to reword it, as-is, there's nothing to stop you doing that at-will. Sure you give up your DR the first time you use it, but who cares? You can ignore damage all day long!

At level 8: What? No, seriously, what? At this point, maybe 10 times per day, remove someone from combat. As an immediate action. That's disgusting.
No, hang on, it's even worse. I just noticed the bit where they can still be affected perfectly normally, even though they can't affect anything. So you can kill them while they're stuck in a different timestream and there's nothing they can do about it. Broken.

At level 9: Oh, look, your flawless perception improves. Oh, and you can scry perfectly, at will, as an extraordinary ability, with no way of blocking it, and no save, and you can target it just by having ever seen someone that's ever seen the thing you're scrying for. Oh, and you do it in one six-hundredth of the time casting the Scrying spell takes. Admittedly Greater Scrying is only a standard action, but that's a 7th level spell. And this is still better. And you have it at will. What?
Greater Teleport 1/day is peanuts by comparison. Although it's still amazing, what with the ability to cross planar boundaries without a miss chance. That's replicating most of the functionality of Gate, right there. I'm amazed it's not at will as well. Oh, and it's (Su) not (Sp), so even better.

At level 10: It really says something that the ability to break the action economy over your knee granted by Platonia is underwhelming compared to the rest of the class. Then on top of that, we have Symphony of the Threads. For five rounds, once per encounter, at-will, free or immediate action haste, slow, and (ranged) Temporal Stasis? Seriously, that's horrifying. Oh, or you could cast Time Stop. Why would you bother when you can Stasis all your enemies as a free action?

Last edited by Heliomance; 2011-12-22 at 10:59 AM.

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Re: [3.5 PrC] Want a dose of Time Shenanigans to go with that build, sir? (PEACH)

Originally Posted by Heliomance

First impressions? HELLACIOUSLY overpowered.

Why thank you.

At level 1: You make every Knowledge other than history utterly redundant, and every skill check based on a mental stat pretty much redundant. You also utterly eliminate the need for INT if you want to run off a different stat. Going in as a caster, you can easily get 10 skill replacements per day, more than you're likely to make.

That's the point of the ability.

At level 2: Fast healing 1 is very good. Not overpowered, but very strong. The ability to discharge it to remove status effects is even better. Hang on, it's not fast healing 1, it's fast healing equal to your class level? Damn. And at-will slow as a swift action? That's horrible.

I don't see where Fast Healing 10 at around level 20 could be so horrible. There are other ways to get this, so it's not new. And at will slow ain't that bad. It's one target only, and I guess I need to specify that.

At level 3: Detection unbeatable by any means whatsoever? Even Darkstalker doesn't beat it? That's... bearable, I suppose. Expect the party scout to feel redundant. Detecting time magic is situational so not too powerful, although 10 miles seems a bit large. You do need to define time magic, though.

That's supposed to be 1 mile extending to 10 miles. What's with the zeros popping out like that? But then again I doubt that would be of use too much. And yes, time magic definition, have to do that.

At level 4: Bonus damage equal to your class level against (essentially) any enemy? And a stacking saves debuff as well? Moderately disgusting, certainly very strong. Incidentally, how does that interact with, say, Magic Missile, where there are multiple damaging effects in one go? Does the bonus damage apply only once, or once per missile? Because if it's the latter, that's broken.

Unless you have only one opponent, I don't quite see you inflicting slow on everyone (the only time effect by the class at this level). Unless of course you're a sorcerer or wizard, and they're all clumped together like the good little critters they are. But then again at level 13 or 14, if you're a wizard, there are helluvalot of options to take care of things that don't involve damage.

On the damage, It is per instance of damage, ie per sword swing or per missile. But I'm changing it to half class level. +5 per damage isn't that bad at level 20.

At level 5: Immunity to aging never comes up in normal games, that's fine. Selective immunity to time-based magic is nice, but again situational, and you still need to define time magic. Although it might let you cast Celerity, then decide that you're immune to the daze. Can it do that?
Temporal Stasis as a (Su) ability, EnoughTM uses per day? Nasty, but you give up a caster level for it (if you're a spellcaster, anyway), so I suppose it's okay. Wait, no, that's an 8th level spell that you're getting at level 13, many times per day. And it has a 5000gp material component which you ignore because it's a (Su) ability. What?

For Celerity, unless you have other source of immunity to daze, then no. It is part of one spell that you allowed to affect you, so you get all the effects. For the Temporal Stasis, yeah I was going to change that. It works for objects normally and uses up more instances when used on creatures.

At level 6: Multi-target no-save slow? Starting to get a little silly, but you're minimum level 14 by that point, I think, so by itself it's not too powerful. Still VERY strong.

You have to note as well that they also need to hit or be hit. Granted it's a touch attack, but you still have the option to ignore them once you know what they do.

At level 7: You do realise that that's more than ANY other source of DR/- in the entire game, right? Also the ability to ignore an entire round's worth of effects is extremely strong. You also need to reword it, as-is, there's nothing to stop you doing that at-will. Sure you give up your DR the first time you use it, but who cares? You can ignore damage all day long!

DR 10/- at around level 20? This is not really balanced against core, but it's still not that overpowered. And yes, need to reword that to mean you need to have your DR and exchange that to get the full round negate damage.

At level 8: What? No, seriously, what? At this point, maybe 10 times per day, remove someone from combat. As an immediate action. That's disgusting.
No, hang on, it's even worse. I just noticed the bit where they can still be affected perfectly normally, even though they can't affect anything. So you can kill them while they're stuck in a different timestream and there's nothing they can do about it. Broken.

Yep, I was planning on giving this a save each round to notice the effect.

At level 9: Oh, look, your flawless perception improves. Oh, and you can scry perfectly, at will, as an extraordinary ability, with no way of blocking it, and no save, and you can target it just by having ever seen someone that's ever seen the thing you're scrying for. Oh, and you do it in one six-hundredth of the time casting the Scrying spell takes. Admittedly Greater Scrying is only a standard action, but that's a 7th level spell. And this is still better. And you have it at will. What?
Greater Teleport 1/day is peanuts by comparison. Although it's still amazing, what with the ability to cross planar boundaries without a miss chance. That's replicating most of the functionality of Gate, right there. I'm amazed it's not at will as well. Oh, and it's (Su) not (Sp), so even better.

Yes it is at will, and you know where something is relative to you, plus distance. I don't see how that's better than being able to see and hear, as well as the lots of detection magic you can use through greater scrying.

At level 10: It really says something that the ability to break the action economy over your knee granted by Platonia is underwhelming compared to the rest of the class. Then on top of that, we have Symphony of the Threads. For five rounds, once per encounter, at-will, free or immediate action haste, slow, and (ranged) Temporal Stasis? Seriously, that's horrifying. Oh, or you could cast Time Stop. Why would you bother when you can Stasis all your enemies as a free action?

Ah, right. For Temporal Stasis, each use uses up an instance of the Temporal Stasis granted by Severe the Threads.

Re: [3.5 PrC] Want a dose of Time Shenanigans to go with that build, sir? (PEACH)

Originally Posted by GuyFawkes

Why thank you.

That's the point of the ability.

It may be the point of the ability, but it's too powerful. You not only end up SAD like no other class, you also end up Single Skill Dependant. Right from level 1. As a first level ability, it should basically cut everything after the bonus to Knowledge (Hisotry) checks. Just drop everything about substituting skills. The rest of it would be acceptable as a 10th level ability.
Incidentally, from a flavour perspective, why does it have Knowledge (The Planes) as a prereq but not a class skill?

I don't see where Fast Healing 10 at around level 20 could be so horrible. There are other ways to get this, so it's not new. And at will slow ain't that bad. It's one target only, and I guess I need to specify that.

It's not SO horrible, but it is very strong - especially combined with the DR 10/- you get later. And at-will slow isn't that bad, no. As a swift action though? Very mean.

That's supposed to be 1 mile extending to 10 miles. What's with the zeros popping out like that? But then again I doubt that would be of use too much. And yes, time magic definition, have to do that.

That's more sensible, yes. The utterly unbeatable detection is still a bit horrible, and better than any comparable class feature. The only things that come close are either feats or racial abilities. I think it is a bit strong.

Unless you have only one opponent, I don't quite see you inflicting slow on everyone (the only time effect by the class at this level). Unless of course you're a sorcerer or wizard, and they're all clumped together like the good little critters they are. But then again at level 13 or 14, if you're a wizard, there are helluvalot of options to take care of things that don't involve damage.

On the damage, It is per instance of damage, ie per sword swing or per missile. But I'm changing it to half class level. +5 per damage isn't that bad at level 20.

No, you're not going to inflict slow on everyone. But with this ability, why would you attack anyone but the enemy you have slowed? You essentially get the bonus damage against everyone, because you can get it against anyone.
Half class level bonus damage is a lot saner, but still vicious. Probably acceptable though.

For Celerity, unless you have other source of immunity to daze, then no. It is part of one spell that you allowed to affect you, so you get all the effects. For the Temporal Stasis, yeah I was going to change that. It works for objects normally and uses up more instances when used on creatures.

Better. You'll need to clarify that you can eithr ignore all of a spell or none of it, not just part of it. As for Temporal Stasis, that's still an 8th level spell with a 5000gp material component that you can get for free at level 13. Doesn't matter how few times you can use it, it's still INCREDIBLY strong.

You have to note as well that they also need to hit or be hit. Granted it's a touch attack, but you still have the option to ignore them once you know what they do.

It's a touch attack. Unless someone has heavily specced for AC, that's not really going to miss a meaningful amount of the time. Also, they last for d4 rounds, so if they do happen to miss, they can just try again next round. Or this round, if someone happens to know Snake's Swiftness.

DR 10/- at around level 20? This is not really balanced against core, but it's still not that overpowered. And yes, need to reword that to mean you need to have your DR and exchange that to get the full round negate damage.

DR 10/- and Fast Healing 10 makes you hellaciously difficult to kill. I'd probably make one or both of them half your class level, not your full level. And make sure you put the same wording in on the fast healing ability, as well.

Yep, I was planning on giving this a save each round to notice the effect.

...to notice? And still not be able to do anything about it? How is that any better? Changing this to a standard action would probably make it fine, I think. It would make it like any other SoD. As an immediate action it's just too strong.

Yes it is at will, and you know where something is relative to you, plus distance. I don't see how that's better than being able to see and hear, as well as the lots of detection magic you can use through greater scrying.

Okay, I misread that I'll admit. It should probably still have the standard Will save attached.

Ah, right. For Temporal Stasis, each use uses up an instance of the Temporal Stasis granted by Severe the Threads.

Better, still disgustingly powerful. Seriously, free actions?

Thanks for the comments!

No problem.

Further thoughts:
Why dictate that you must have +7 BAB from a single class? You can't pump BAB artificially high by multiclassing the way you can saves, so dictating that you can't multiclass before taking this class - especially as no such restriction exists for spellcasters or psions - is unreasonably restrictive.

Too many of the class's abilities are swift or immediate actions. Apart from the fact that they're stronger than normal actions, the fact that you only get one per round with essentially no way to change that means that you will never have any of your swift actions available for anything else ever again. This is a bad thing for, eg, martial adepts, which you seem to want to be able to use this class. Change a bunch of the swift action abilities to standards, it'll help tone it down, and it'll actually make it more useful for adepts.

Last edited by Heliomance; 2011-12-23 at 08:02 AM.

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Originally Posted by Kalirren

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Originally Posted by golentan

I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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Re: [3.5 PrC] Want a dose of Time Shenanigans to go with that build, sir? (PEACH)

Originally Posted by Heliomance

It may be the point of the ability, but it's too powerful. You not only end up SAD like no other class, you also end up Single Skill Dependant. Right from level 1. As a first level ability, it should basically cut everything after the bonus to Knowledge (Hisotry) checks. Just drop everything about substituting skills. The rest of it would be acceptable as a 10th level ability.
Incidentally, from a flavour perspective, why does it have Knowledge (The Planes) as a prereq but not a class skill?

Abilities do not apply only to skills, so I don't think that's going to happen.This would be true to casters though, but I think that doesn't change anything much.

It's not SO horrible, but it is very strong - especially combined with the DR 10/- you get later. And at-will slow isn't that bad, no. As a swift action though? Very mean.

Well, it's the only offensive time spell he has at lower levels from the class, so I'll leave it at that. Plus it has to compete with other swift actions/immediate actions abilities of this class.

That's more sensible, yes. The utterly unbeatable detection is still a bit horrible, and better than any comparable class feature. The only things that come close are either feats or racial abilities. I think it is a bit strong.

Yes. Yes it is.

No, you're not going to inflict slow on everyone. But with this ability, why would you attack anyone but the enemy you have slowed? You essentially get the bonus damage against everyone, because you can get it against anyone.
Half class level bonus damage is a lot saner, but still vicious. Probably acceptable though.

Not everyone has insanely low Will saves so I doubt you'd be alive if you plan on waiting for your slows to connect before attacking.

Better. You'll need to clarify that you can eithr ignore all of a spell or none of it, not just part of it. As for Temporal Stasis, that's still an 8th level spell with a 5000gp material component that you can get for free at level 13. Doesn't matter how few times you can use it, it's still INCREDIBLY strong.

Level 13? Hmm. Can you please write down how to enter this at level 9 so I could correct it? By my intention, you enter this at least at level 10.

It's a touch attack. Unless someone has heavily specced for AC, that's not really going to miss a meaningful amount of the time. Also, they last for d4 rounds, so if they do happen to miss, they can just try again next round. Or this round, if someone happens to know Snake's Swiftness.

A melee touch attack. And that's all they can do. No skills, no other tricks. Move and attack. This either forces you to pump at least a bit of str or dex if you want them to connect, or ignore it entirely and wish they would hit your clones.

DR 10/- and Fast Healing 10 makes you hellaciously difficult to kill. I'd probably make one or both of them half your class level, not your full level. And make sure you put the same wording in on the fast healing ability, as well.

Yep, I already did, thanks.

...to notice? And still not be able to do anything about it? How is that any better? Changing this to a standard action would probably make it fine, I think. It would make it like any other SoD. As an immediate action it's just too strong.

Hmm. Hmm, yeah I think this would fly as a standard action as well.

Okay, I misread that I'll admit. It should probably still have the standard Will save attached.

Hmm. Yeah, it's at-will anyway.

Better, still disgustingly powerful. Seriously, free actions?

Yep. Well, think of it as like an aura, where those allies come in and get hasted, enemies come in and get slowed, and you have an option to throw in a Temporal Stasis or two.

Further thoughts:
Why dictate that you must have +7 BAB from a single class? You can't pump BAB artificially high by multiclassing the way you can saves, so dictating that you can't multiclass before taking this class - especially as no such restriction exists for spellcasters or psions - is unreasonably restrictive.

I was more concerned of minding the entry level here. I wanted it to be taken at least at level 10, 11 ideally.

Too many of the class's abilities are swift or immediate actions. Apart from the fact that they're stronger than normal actions, the fact that you only get one per round with essentially no way to change that means that you will never have any of your swift actions available for anything else ever again. This is a bad thing for, eg, martial adepts, which you seem to want to be able to use this class. Change a bunch of the swift action abilities to standards, it'll help tone it down, and it'll actually make it more useful for adepts.

If I am right, there are two swift actions, Entangling Threads, and Symphony. For Symphony, it's just for the start of the ability. For the immediate actions, you have 4, 5 if you count the option in Symphony. 2 of these are from the fast healing to heal and DR to negate round. Those are just panic buttons, and you typically will only use up either one of those two. The other two, Isolate Thread and Platonia. Now if I change Isolate Threads, which more probably I will, then you are just left with 2 swift/immediate actions that you would often use.

So, all in all, the immediate actions make it rather more defensive in nature. And coupled with the swift actions, it's rather made so you choose what you use rather than use this, then that, then this, in one turn. It has lots of powerful abilities, but the swift/immediate action required makes it so you have to choose which powerful ability you use for each situation.

Re: [3.5 PrC] Want a dose of Time Shenanigans to go with that build, sir? (PEACH)

You can meet the BAB +7 prereq at level 7 with a full BAB class O_o
And you may have been aiming for a powerful class, but I think you overshot. A wizard taking this class will end up Tier 0 or -1. It's sick.

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Originally Posted by Kalirren

The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

Originally Posted by golentan

I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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Re: [3.5 PrC] Want a dose of Time Shenanigans to go with that build, sir? (PEACH)

Originally Posted by Heliomance

You can meet the BAB +7 prereq at level 7 with a full BAB class O_o
And you may have been aiming for a powerful class, but I think you overshot. A wizard taking this class will end up Tier 0 or -1. It's sick.

But there are no full BAB class with knowledge history and knowledge the planes as class skills, if I'm right. And if you cross class you those, you'd still need to be at least 3 levels for it to get 6.

For the wizard, you'd have to sacrifice 3 levels to get the whole 10 levels, so you'd still be losing quite a bit of your level 9 spells. You'd be powerful, yes, but your overall versatility would drop, which is the point of tiers.

Re: [3.5 PrC] Want a dose of Time Shenanigans to go with that build, sir? (PEACH)

You need one level of factotum, get both at 4 ranks. Take 7 levels in Warblade, increasing the skills by 2 ranks each over the course of 7 levels. Max ranks are determined by if it is a class skill for any class you have. Also Planar Ranger (Unearthed Arcana) with Knowledge Devotion (choosing History) could fulfill the prerequisites as soon as they hit Lv 7. Or easier still Duskblade, has all Knowledge skills as class skills.

Re: [3.5 PrC] Want a dose of Time Shenanigans to go with that build, sir? (PEACH)

Ahh shoot. Damn factotum. No way to go about that now, is there? Well, it will have to depend on the DM if he/she would allow that to have this class entered at lower levels. Unless somebody has an idea how to go about this, which I would very much appreciate.

Re: [3.5 PrC] Want a dose of Time Shenanigans to go with that build, sir? (PEACH)

Wizard could work instead of factotum, bard, or any class with Knowledge (history) and Knowledge (the planes); I just chose factotum because it was the first one to come to mind. Also specialist wizards qualify at level 9. Also you have no restriction on bonus power points for psionic characters. Arguably a spontaneous caster with Versatile Spellcaster could get in at 8th level if there are any with the proper class skills.

If you want to make sure it's impossible to get into before 10th level and Craft (any) 13 ranks, or any skill 13 ranks, or Character Level 10. Those are pretty much the only unbreakable ones which everyone can qualify for.

Re: [3.5 PrC] Want a dose of Time Shenanigans to go with that build, sir? (PEACH)

Probably because no published PrC ever has a flat out character level limit. Frankly, I'm not sure why, but they don't. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Kalirren

The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

Originally Posted by golentan

I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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