For starters, I lived in Manhattan for a few years and while the city still retains an impressive collection of old buildings, I think it would be naive to say that it's impossible for the city to lose it's historic character. Certainly, there are a number of cities across the country that would exemplify that. Downtown Houston is quite modern and functional. However, I doubt it if anyone would want to live there.

Even if 20 historic buildings were demolished each year in Manhattan, in a hundred years time, the city would look quite different than it does today. In the long run historic preservation ultimately loses. Thats why it's so important to preserve what we already have so Manhattan doesn't become just another boring and textureless city of glass boxes.

I'm not saying that every pile of bricks thats over fifty years old should be preserved, but given that these particular buildings are adjacent to the most beautiful and historic terminal in the country, I think a case could certainly be made for their preservation.

Perhaps, New York will never be again as beautiful as London and Paris. Although, at one time it certainly was, if not more. That being said, without its old buildings, New York wouldn't be New York.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

Exactly, just as there is more to the point than preserving some just for the sake of preserving. The question to ask is do these buildings continue to function as the best use possible for that site in the heart of the best know business district in the world, next to one of the busiest transportation centers in the City, not is it deemed "more aesthetically attractive".

I have no such concerns about preserving these buildings. I could understand the concern for anyone who has never been to Manhattan, but it would be simply foolish for anyone who has to suggest it is at all in danger of losing it's old buildings. If we were talking about tearing down Grand Central, you'd have a different argument.

The largest building on site is 41 E. 42 (on right in photo). However, they could potentially use either of the addresses, such as 331 Madison (on left) or create something completely new. It's not that important at this point.

^ If it never changes, that can only be a bad sign for the City, because if the economy of the City improves enough, that corner will most certainly change, as the City has for years, and will continue to do provided life goes on. And yes, even the museums change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

For starters, I lived in Manhattan for a few years and while the city still retains an impressive collection of old buildings, I think it would be naive to say that it's impossible for the city to lose it's historic character. Certainly, there are a number of cities across the country that would exemplify that. Downtown Houston is quite modern and functional. However, I doubt it if anyone would want to live there.

I love these people that come and compare Manhattan to Houston. Absolutely ridiculous, and naive in of itself. As I've said earlier, I don't want to convert this thread into a preservationist battle. New Yorks aging buildings is being discussed here:http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=178173

Here we will focus on the development that will take place on this, arbuably the most valuable development space in Manhattan. More from the transcript...

Okay. Sights in this city, they're big, they're sexy, they're lots of fun. However, they're also complex, they're expensive, they take a lot of time. It's tough to find land. Land is very expensive. It's tough to finance. The public review process is brutal. Zoning really limits what you can do at the end of the day. And last but certainly not least, you need massive rents to justify building a building in this city. And even then, you need a great location. And as you can see here, each of those purple dots, they're not great locations.

There are couple of sites that are actually ongoing now. The first one is the Gem Tower. At the end of the day, this site is only going to be 315,000 square feet of office space. The asking rents are $120 a square foot. It's rather small. The lease that Steve just did is bigger than the entirety of the space that's going to be available for lease in this building. The next site is Boston property site. This site's up to I think Floor 6 in terms of steel. This site was stopped in 2009 when a couple of large deals fell apart. They signed a lease for 180,000 square feet and they're moving forward with this side. Asking rents are approximately $80 in the base to over $100 a square foot in the Tower. The next site is the Hines site. This was an old 8-story building that was torn down. It's now just dirt. But until they get about 50% of this building pre-leased, they're not going to move forward. And this is actually one of the better sites between 39th and 40th Streets.

Okay. Now we get to the sites that are somewhat more uncertain. This is a sprawling site over 12 million square feet of office, retail, hotel, schools, everything you can think of. The total office size is going to be about 5 million square feet, but they've got to build a platform. That's going to cost them over $1 billion over active train tracks, not an easy task. There's one portion of the site that's actually on dirt, and they sold about 700,000 square feet in that building to Coach, but it's still uncertain as to whether that building gets built or not, if they don't find another tenant for the rest of that space. Here's another site on the far west side. It's got to be over a platform again. This platform I believe is $500 million to $600 million and is 132,000 square feet, also over active tracks. And this -- here they're going to have 2 large buildings totaling about 5.2 million square feet, they're targeting the largest users in the marketplace. This has been a site for a very, very long time.

Here's another site. This building is supposed to be one of the tallest buildings in the city at the end of the day. I don't know when the end of that day is. But first off, you'd also have to demolish one of the largest hotels in the city before you did anything here. One more site, over an active bus terminal. This site is currently on hold. And last but not least, there's 3 Hudson Boulevard. Of all the sites on the far west side, this is actually the only site that's actually on solid grounds, and you could actually access directly from the new 7-line extension. So of all those sites, this is probably one of the better ones in terms of access. Even if all those sites got built, which could take anywhere from 5 to 10 to 15 years, it would only add 16 million square feet to the entire market. That's 4%. That is a huge if first off. And then as you can easily see, over the last 20 years, the amount of supplies remained relatively flat. And during that time, 30 million square feet of new product has hit the market.

A think you've heard us say it over the years, time and time again, we redevelop and reposition assets. Our track record on that speaks for itself. There's no question about that. Take a moment, look at these bullets. These are the reasons why we do what we do. There's no question about that. However, when you have the single best potential development site in the city, if not the world, the possibilities are truly astounding.

They've brought in Hines, known for developing and getting towers built, to help get the process going here. With zoning in place next year, it could probably be at least a year or two before we start seeing designs. No architect has been chosen as of yet, so there could also be another design competition. It will be very exciting watching the process here of what will no doubt be another iconic tower for the City.

__________________NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.

SL Green's executive vice president of property management and construction, said the company plans to build "a spectacular trophy asset with designs inspiration from around the world," drawing on iconic modern towers such as the Burj Khalifa in Dubai and the International Commerce Centre tower in Hong Kong.

I would love something with a roof height well above the ESB and even 432 Park. I do not want NYC to be a city whose supertalls rely on spires for a large portion of their height. I am not saying that I dislike spires, but I prefer my buildings tall, not my spires. I would really like the first or last one in this location if their rooflines were made taller. Whatever they decide to put here, I am really hoping for an instant classic.

the only thing that has been established about this site is that it's on the radar for future major development.

Yes, its been on the radar for futer development for a long time, and it took them a while to put all of the pieces into place. Now that they are, and SL Green has began talking about what type of development they would like to build there, we can begin to look at it along the lines of other proposals for Midtown. Especially now that they have brought in Hines to help develop the tower from the ground up.

__________________NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.

Faulty Towers: Midtown Needs a Makeover, with Twice as Tall Towers,
But Can Mayor Bloomberg Get It Right?

Midtown, 2025? (Photo composite: Ed Johnson/NYO; Photos: Getty)

It all starts with Grand Central. (Getty)

By Matt Chaban
6/27/12

Quote:

It was but one line in Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s State of the City address in January, but it could prove to be one of the biggest of his dozen years in office. “In the area around Grand Central, we’ll work with the City Council on a package of regulatory changes and incentives that will attract new investment, new companies and new jobs,” the mayor said from the stage inside Morris High School in the Bronx.......Now, it is time to remake the middle of Manhattan, to redevelop one of the most developed swathes of land in the world.

.....there is a special focus on the blocks around the train station, as well as along Park Avenue, seen as especially valuable as well as especially outdated. An initial proposal is to be released on July 11, and the city hopes to begin the arduous public review process by the first quarter of next year—just before the notorious countdown clock at City Hall blinks off.

.......some traditional Midtown heavyweights, like SL Green, have felt neglected amidst the city’s westward expansion. Earlier this month, The Journal revealed that the city’s largest commercial landlord had teamed up with Hines, another player who has mostly developed along Third and Lex, to replace a clutch of turn-of-the-century buildings immediately west of Grand Central, on 42nd Street between Madison and Vanderbuilt avenues. The city freely admits that it is working with local stakeholders to craft its plan but denies that they are the ones sketching it out.

.......According to city planning sources, the proposal could get downsized to include only the immediate blocks surrounding Grand Central. There are almost 2 million square feet in development rights that once belonged to the Penn Central Railroad, currently owned by a little-known firm called Argent Ventures. The city would add to that pot by a few million square feet, selling off the extra air rights, which would go to fund improvements to the surrounding streets and the spaces within Grand Central, particularly the local, and long-neglected, subway stations. This would benefit but a few developers owning surrounding properties. City Hall denied it has shrunk its scheme, but also admitted that it has yet to finalize the boundaries.

__________________NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.

City Hall: Supersize midtown's east side
Massive upzoning effort to encourage bigger towers for aging office district

By Theresa Agovino
July 8, 2012

Quote:

With 14 Fortune 500 headquarters clustered in the office towers on midtown's east side near Grand Central Terminal—the greatest density of such companies in the U.S.—the area looms large in the international business world. But fearing that midtown east's aging building stock will diminish the district's corporate allure, the Bloomberg administration is finalizing a rezoning blueprint that would encourage office teardowns and the construction of even bigger commercial towers with premium amenities. It may also include a proposal said to be favored by Planning Commissioner Amanda Burden: turning Vanderbilt Avenue, the short block west of Grand Central, into a pedestrian-only street.

City officials are set to release details this week of the proposal to upzone the area with 80 million square feet of office space. Sources said officials hadn't determined the size limits on new buildings, although discussions considered expansions ranging from 22% to more than 100% greater than what's now allowed, depending on location and current zoning. The larger sizes would likely be allowed only on midtown avenues and on the streets closest to Grand Central, which sits beneath more than 1 million square feet of unused air rights.

.......sources said the planning department had discussed raising the area's FAR to 18 to 26 from the current 12 to 15.

It's possible that buildings in midtown east could grow even larger than what the city's revised zoning permits. That's because there are 1.35 million square feet of unused air rights above Grand Central that developers could conceivably buy to boost the size of their buildings.

The city is looking at turning tiny Vanderbilt Avenue next to Grand Central Terminal into the next car-free “pedestrian plaza,” under a plan being touted by the Department of City Planning and the Department of Transportation. The five-block stretch, which runs from 42nd to 47th streets, would be transformed under a broader plan to “upzone” office space on Manhattan’s East Side, two sources told The Post.

“The city is examining ways to modernize East Midtown so that over time, it will maintain its stature as a premier business district and job generator for New York City,” a city planning official said.

Mayor Bloomberg wants the whole project under way by the time he leaves office in 2014, and details could be released Wednesday at a Community Board 5 meeting.

__________________NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.

While Midtown is hardly a tabula rasa along the lines of Hudson Yards or the World Trade Center, rezoning has the potential, according to Edith Hsu-Chen, director of DCP’s Manhattan office, to “seed” a healthy amount of new development for the next ten, 20, or 30 years, while boosting the value of one of the world’s premier office addresses.

At least one developer has already taken notice. Earlier this month The Wall Street Journal reported that SL Green, one of the city’s largest commercial property owners with more than 25 million square feet of office space throughout Manhattan, has assembled a one-block parcel right next door to Grand Central between Madison and Vanderbilt on 42nd Street to be developed in a joint venture with architect-savvy developer Hines.

Edward V. Piccinich, SL Green's executive vice president of property management and construction, appears to be in it for the long haul, but not without concern about the next Planning Commission. “Whoever goes in [to Midtown] is going to have to work in a very strategic way, whether it’s coordinating with the MTA, mixed-use development, or phasing and circulation,” he said. “It’s not just about creating a plaza.”

SL Green's recently assembled parcel at 42nd and Vanderbilt

The Bleak VANDERBILT avenue during morning Rush

__________________NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.