Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider
registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.

If Patty was the last Bigfoot then the thousands of reports since relatively soon thereafter could not have been bigfoots. This is impossible because DWA said so and his buddy WHO IS A LAWYER agrees.

What if Patty was the last Bigfoot and every report after that were of ghosts? That would explain why there are footprints... but with no Bigfoots in them. My theory... Bigfoot ghosts...

Think about it.

__________________"Bigfoot does not leave hair samples for us unless he is in our dimension to begin with, obviously. Once the hair is separated from the electrical field associated with the Bigfoot's free quanta energy loops, the hair becomes independant and remains in it's most stable dimension, which presumably is our dimension."(Historian)

Ghosts make footprints??? Can they throw candy, too? Do they show up on thermal imagers?

Dude... Poltergeistfoots. It's the only logical explanation.

Think about it.

__________________"Bigfoot does not leave hair samples for us unless he is in our dimension to begin with, obviously. Once the hair is separated from the electrical field associated with the Bigfoot's free quanta energy loops, the hair becomes independant and remains in it's most stable dimension, which presumably is our dimension."(Historian)

RP: "Well, Bob-ol' buddy, here we are in Bluff Creek, where we've come to film a sasquatch documentary where Ray Wallace has been hoaxing tracks for years."
BG: "Yup."

RP: "I'm sorry I wasted all but these last few feet of film on scenery and stuff. I think I'll use it all up on some more scenery and stuff."
BG: "Yup."

RP: "I'm sorry I didn't bother to figure out how to get a guy in a furry suit to play the sasquatch in our movie. I agree with ya that it's pretty lame not to have a sasquatch in our sasquatch mov - - - Holy Frijoles! There's one now! It looks uncannily similar to the one I drew in my bigfoot book a years ago, too!"
BG: "Yup."

Yup.

__________________"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that." Steve Earle

He bounced the check for the rental of the camera for cripes sake. He didn't have money to waste on endless reels of film.

Uh huh...

Quote:

Al brought to Seattle the film of the creature and a great deal of footage that Roger had taken of the waterfalls and trees and various thing like that. The footprint film was supposed to be there but it wasn't.

Film of the creature, and a great deal of film of scenery...

John Green 1992 interview of Bob Gimlin.

Plus, we know that he reloaded the camera for Bob after Patty had walked off, and Bob went looking with the camera.

Roger had plenty of film, and had filmed lots of scenery on this trip and other trips, and had used more than one movie camera, iirc.

__________________What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

Plus, we know that he reloaded the camera for Bob after Patty had walked off, and Bob went looking with the camera.

Roger had plenty of film, and had filmed lots of scenery on this trip and other trips, and had used more than one movie camera, iirc.

Exactly. Roger had plenty of film with which to film some decoy shots of scenery, and then we get Patty at the end of the reel. It was almost like Roger intended to waste as much film as he could before getting his shot of Patty, because that is exactly what he did.

Then there's the mysterious 2nd reel of film that supposedly included all of the casting footage etc. Roger quite obviously had enough film to generally dick about with.

Plus, we know that he reloaded the camera for Bob after Patty had walked off, and Bob went looking with the camera.

Roger had plenty of film, and had filmed lots of scenery on this trip and other trips, and had used more than one movie camera, iirc.

I thought that Bigfoot documentaries usually tried to fill up film with pictures of the human hunters' faces showing their amazed reactions to their encounters with alleged Bigfoot activities? "Oh, there is an entire Bigfoot family sitting three feet away but don't turn the camera to them; instead just focus on me telling you what I see." Or, "Oh, now I feel the presence of something big outside the tent. See how scared am!" Sort of The Blair Witch Project.

Gimlin may have had to sign documents saying he would never tell any of the trade secrets in order to maintain his share of the profits. There may be many reasons why he would. One of them is, why give up the gig until even the "target audience" loses interest. Some are dug in hard. mostly because they have told stories of their own in order to belong to this special club. (and i mean special as in special, not special. lol)

After Gimlin passes (or perhaps some time after Mrs Patterson does) some of the family will cash in on the relics or other items of interest that may have escaped the special club publications to date.

There is already proof that the thing was a hoax. footers just refuse to admit it. (there are actually many ways to prove their story was bogus)

I wouldn't say that Gimlin was uninformed of the situation, but I don't think he was anywhere near to being the brains of the operation, and nor do I believe that he contributed much of anything other than his services for whatever amount of beer-money Roger had promised him.

I think Gimlin will likely have been included in whatever preparations went on before the event, but I don't think he'd have been overly interested in them, he just doesn't strike me as someone who gave much of a monkey's either way, other than when he was getting paid and how much moolah he was getting.

In the years since the PGF and Rogers' death, Gimlin has become quite the performer, and he's definitely enjoying the role that he adopted in Roger's absence. Every time he tells his story he adds a little more drama to it.

Most of all, he knows he has a fan-club, and he knows that this fan-club would champion his every word, regardless.

Imo, though, I don't really think Gimlin had much to do with the PGF other than being there, pointing at things, jumping off logs and holding Rogers hand whenever he needed to tinkle in the woods.

I don't disagree with either one of you. What I think really happened was it started out as a "legitimate" on-location documentary shoot that somehow turned into the PGF that we know.

And in my opinion, all of Gimlin's crimes have come after the actual filming.

You nailed it on the head. I knew it had been brought up before but didn't remember exactly what had been said or decided. It's what makes the most sense I think given who the players are and what has and hasn't happened in the 48 years since.

I think that there are problems with the idea that Patterson decided to run a hoax only after he saw the footage of Patty. How you describe the problems depends on if you believe Heironimus or not, but there are problems either way. The problems begin with the secrecy of the costume and the film development and knowing that there needs to be no secrets at all if your plan is to film a guy in a Bigfoot costume as an acknowledged simulation/recreation of a real Bigfoot.

If Heironimus is telling the truth then you can kiss the idea goodbye.

__________________Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

The fact remains, RP was doing the documentary thing, and a decision to try a hoax would have been a logical spawn of that endeavor...

Patterson had stars in his eyes...

The stars are in his eyes whether he produced a for-profit documentary (with the costume wearer named in the credits) or a for-profit Bigfoot hoax.

It may have been a hoax project right from the beginning. If he was unable to make the costume look realistic (to his satisfaction) on film he could continue trying or just go ahead and use it as a documentary simulation without any lies. Remember that he had a whole crew of actors months earlier in Washington. There is no evidence that he openly told all of them that in a few months he would have a costume ready for the Bigfoot scene and would any of you guys like to audition for that.

As it appears to me, he not only tried to fool the world he tried to fool all of his previous actors as well. Hey guys, wait til you hear this. Gimlin and I went to California to film some more scenes for the documentary we all were working on and all of a sudden there was a Bigfoot. I filmed it.

__________________Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

Yes, I have seen this theory posted at the BFF. It's not hugely popular. I believe Crowlogic used to think this, but has since retreated from that and believes the PGF to be a hoax.

That's a common theme with a lot of "skeptics". They go from believing in Bigfoot to suddenly believing in the non-existence of Bigfoot and then back to believing. They never accept the fact that they don't know. The anxiety that uncertainty brings is apparently too much some people to handle.

That's a common theme with a lot of "skeptics". They go from believing in Bigfoot to suddenly believing in the non-existence of Bigfoot and then back to believing. They never accept the fact that they don't know. The anxiety that uncertainty brings is apparently too much some people to handle.

It's exactly the kind of anxiety people get from declining to accept the existence of Oompa-Loompas.

Anyway, I think that most of us never believed in bigfoot. I started off thinking bigfoot was a joke, and never saw a good reason to change my mind.

__________________"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

That's a common theme with a lot of "skeptics". They go from believing in Bigfoot to suddenly believing in the non-existence of Bigfoot and then back to believing. They never accept the fact that they don't know. The anxiety that uncertainty brings is apparently too much some people to handle.

Here we go again. Who cares what people used to believe.

No one "believes in the non-existence of bigfoot". That makes no sense right there.

We do know. No uncertainty, no anxiety. Nothing to handle.

No evidence of bigfoot = no bigfoot. Nothing simpler.

__________________ "There is a plenty of proof, but unfortunately it is entirely unprovable." - Punshhh
"There’s a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore like an idiot." – Stephen Wright

That's a common theme with a lot of "skeptics". They go from believing in Bigfoot to suddenly believing in the non-existence of Bigfoot and then back to believing. They never accept the fact that they don't know. The anxiety that uncertainty brings is apparently too much some people to handle.

Also, some people come to their senses.

__________________>Reason being is that you guys appear to have absolutely no field experience in listening for invisible people in the forest. I do.

I don't disagree with either one of you. What I think really happened was it started out as a "legitimate" on-location documentary shoot that somehow turned into the PGF that we know.

And in my opinion, all of Gimlin's crimes have come after the actual filming.

I'm not too sure if it was originally intended to be the hoax that it became, but if it's true that they were in the process of making the movie at the time, then it's possible that the PGF either came directly from this, or happened as a result of it.

I'd like to know more about the intended movie they were making, which, apparently, was later made and released by different people.

That's a common theme with a lot of "skeptics". They go from believing in Bigfoot to suddenly believing in the non-existence of Bigfoot and then back to believing. They never accept the fact that they don't know. The anxiety that uncertainty brings is apparently too much some people to handle.

__________________Looking forward to the Trump Presidential Library. A putting green. Recipes for chocolate cake. A live Twitter feed for visitors to post on. A little black book w the phone numbers of porn stars. You're in and out in five minutes.

John Smith is a credulous Bigfoot proponent, but as years go by without any hard evidence, he begins to question his belief more and more. It's worth noting that John isn't the skeptical type. In fact, not knowing whether his favorite idol is real or not just makes him really nervous, so instead of taking a neutral stance, he tries hard to convince himself that there's no such thing as Bigfoot.

John's world still revolves around Bigfoot and so one day he decides to join the JREF and BFF for discussion. Proponents on the BFF who suggest that Bigfoot is out there only piss him off so he signs in every day to debate the existence of Bigfoot with proponents and insult and belittle anyone who challenges his fragile belief.

John Smith is a credulous Bigfoot proponent, but as years go by without any hard evidence, he begins to question his belief more and more. It's worth noting that John isn't the skeptical type. In fact, not knowing whether his favorite idol is real or not just makes him really nervous, so instead of taking a neutral stance, he tries hard to convince himself that there's no such thing as Bigfoot.

John's world still revolves around Bigfoot and so one day he decides to join the JREF and BFF for discussion. Proponents on the BFF who suggest that Bigfoot is out there only piss him off so he signs in every day to debate the existence of Bigfoot with proponents and insult and belittle anyone who challenges his fragile belief.

Pay attention. John Smith doesn't exist (like bigfoot).

Knowing there is no bigfoot (no evidence of bigfoot = no bigfoot) is not a belief. No one has to try very hard to convince themselves that something doesn't exist when there is no evidence of its existence.

This is simple logic a six year old can grasp if they try. Give it a go.

__________________ "There is a plenty of proof, but unfortunately it is entirely unprovable." - Punshhh
"There’s a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore like an idiot." – Stephen Wright

An example:
John Smith is a credulous Bigfoot proponent, but as years go by without any hard evidence, he begins to question his belief more and more. It's worth noting that John isn't the skeptical type. In fact, not knowing whether his favorite idol is real or not just makes him really nervous, so instead of taking a neutral stance, he tries hard to convince himself that there's no such thing as Bigfoot.

A neutral stance is as unnecessary with footie as it is with mermaids, Nessie, menehunes and werewolves.

Quote:

John's world still revolves around Bigfoot

Now this is projection.

Quote:

and so one day he decides to join the JREF and BFF for discussion . . . <blathersnip> so he signs in every day to debate the existence of Bigfoot with proponents and insult and belittle . . .

Accurate observations concerning ridiculous anecdotes, faux research and psuedoscientic procedures are hardly insults. Describing them as such rather indicates where the fragility of belief lies.

__________________Looking forward to the Trump Presidential Library. A putting green. Recipes for chocolate cake. A live Twitter feed for visitors to post on. A little black book w the phone numbers of porn stars. You're in and out in five minutes.

Again, if you believe that Heironimus is telling the truth then the PGF was intended to be a hoax. I will give one example but there are many others.

Patterson & Gimlin were already at Bluff Creek and had been camping there when Heironimus arrived to be filmed wearing the costume. He was instructed by P&G to hide his vehicle (his mother's car) with brush/branches and they did do that. This was obviously done so that anyone who might come by would only see Gimlin's truck and not notice that another person had come to the scene. Such a witness could destroy the hoax by later saying that they saw two vehicles at the camp instead of simply seeing Gimlin's truck.

If the intent is to film a guy in a costume to show what a Bigfoot would look like for your documentary then the concealment of your actor's vehicle is entirely unnecessary.

__________________Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

John Smith is a credulous Bigfoot proponent, but as years go by without any hard evidence, he begins to question his belief more and more. It's worth noting that John isn't the skeptical type. In fact, not knowing whether his favorite idol is real or not just makes him really nervous, so instead of taking a neutral stance, he tries hard to convince himself that there's no such thing as Bigfoot.

John's world still revolves around Bigfoot and so one day he decides to join the JREF and BFF for discussion. Proponents on the BFF who suggest that Bigfoot is out there only piss him off so he signs in every day to debate the existence of Bigfoot with proponents and insult and belittle anyone who challenges his fragile belief.