What is this forum for?

Good day to you all. I don't often post here but have lurked for many years. Over the last day or so, I have been browsing the forum for the first time in a while and am much saddened by what I have found. On just this first page I have witnessed:

Insults.

Forum members attacking other members.

Some really quite sophisticated trolling.

Some really very unsophisticated trolling.

Bickering and fighting.

Threads and posts disappearing all over the place.

A general air of dissent and discontent.

I was hoping to come on and ask a couple of questions but it does not look like I would be very welcome to do so. Is this forum still suitable for such a purpose or has it completely descended into chaos now? It was always a bit "edgy" in here, but it seems to be out of control now. What has been the cause of this and is it worth my effort to ask questions here?

Good day to you all. I don't often post here but have lurked for many years. Over the last day or so, I have been browsing the forum for the first time in a while and am much saddened by what I have found. On just this first page I have witnessed:

Insults.

Forum members attacking other members.

Some really quite sophisticated trolling.

Some really very unsophisticated trolling.

Bickering and fighting.

Threads and posts disappearing all over the place.

A general air of dissent and discontent.

I was hoping to come on and ask a couple of questions but it does not look like I would be very welcome to do so. Is this forum still suitable for such a purpose or has it completely descended into chaos now? It was always a bit "edgy" in here, but it seems to be out of control now. What has been the cause of this and is it worth my effort to ask questions here?

That, i am afraid is the internet. and this place is tame compared to some technology sites. There are also some interesting and useful posts, and occasionally some excellent photographs.

Are you new to the internet? I have been on since 1989 and it has been the same from the beginning and will probably only get worse.

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Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planningWSSA #44

No. I have had a year's more use than you, it seems. One of the things that my university excelled in at the time was having well equipped computing suites. My observation is just that the signal here is getting drowned in the noise a little now. Maybe that is how things are now, maybe it is just a blip. I wondered what others thought or if I would just be better sticking with FM.

Believe it or not, it was much worse in the pre moderator days. Extreme positions and lots of raw aggression are unfortunately quite common these days, to say nothing of medium grade compulsive exhibitionism thinly disguised as dispensation of photographic wisdom.

Not easy to keep tabs on all these hundreds of posts. Some posters have refined the practice of tiptoeing over the edge of a ban then back again all innocent like to an art form. Which I suppose is inevitable.

Good day to you all. I don't often post here but have lurked for many years. Over the last day or so, I have been browsing the forum for the first time in a while and am much saddened by what I have found. On just this first page I have witnessed:

Insults.

Forum members attacking other members.

Some really quite sophisticated trolling.

Some really very unsophisticated trolling.

Bickering and fighting.

Threads and posts disappearing all over the place.

A general air of dissent and discontent.

Pretty sure what you have described is indeed the purpose of this forum

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http://www.nightstreets.com-"Sick cultures show a complex of symptoms such as you have named...but a dying culture invariable exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners is more significant than a riot."This symptom is especially serious in that an individual displaying it never thinks of it as a sign of ill health but as proof of his/her strength. ...Friday, it is too late to save this culture--this worldwide culture... Therefore we must now prepare the monasteries for the coming Dark Age. Electronic records are too fragile..."--Robert A. Heinlein in "Friday"

In the spirit of the subject you bring up I should of course start out by insulting you, then proceed by vigorously counter-argue a somewhat different question then the one you actually posed, and finish it of by accusing you of something you did not say ... But I am in a friendly mood today

PaleRiderBath wrote:

Good day to you all. I don't often post here but have lurked for many years. Over the last day or so, I have been browsing the forum for the first time in a while and am much saddened by what I have found. On just this first page I have witnessed:

Insults.

Forum members attacking other members.

Some really quite sophisticated trolling.

Some really very unsophisticated trolling.

Bickering and fighting.

Threads and posts disappearing all over the place.

A general air of dissent and discontent.

You could add to that list:

Sincere questions

Friendly and, at times, informed answers to said questions

Some great image examples posted

Genuine discussion topics where the responses will range from silly to fascinating

Funny posts

Etc ...

And in summary you have a pretty standard internet forum. Not a whole lot better, but certainly no worse then any other forum out there.

I was hoping to come on and ask a couple of questions but it does not look like I would be very welcome to do so. Is this forum still suitable for such a purpose or has it completely descended into chaos now?

No, it is pretty much the same as it was when I first entered here almost ten years ago. And pretty much the same as any forum, mailing list, usenet forum I have seen during the past 20 years online.

It was always a bit "edgy" in here,

Yes. It always is in forums dealing with anything people are passionate about.

but it seems to be out of control now.

Nope.

What has been the cause of this and is it worth my effort to ask questions here?

As for questions, as a general rule of thumbs for all forums: the quality of the answers will usually be fairly proportional to the quality of the question posed. A somewhat obvious example:

If you ask "Can any of you dimwits explain why the idiots at Nikon made the silly grip on my lousy D800 so small, please explain in detail or I will hit you over the face" then you might get a few rude replies, and some not entirely truthful, nor informative answers.

On the other hand, if you ask: "I find the grip on my D800 a bit small. Do anyone agree, and if so, do you have any thought on why Nikon choose this design?" you will probably get mostly fairly level headed answers, some speculation, and some interesting thoughts on the issue.

The most common error by people asking questions is to not provide enough background information. Like "My pictures are bad, what is wrong with my camera?" Without mentioning in what way the images are bad (Unsharp? Bad exposure? Bad colors? Bad composition? ...), or what camera and lens what was used.

The second most common mistake is to ask a question, and then just disappear without a trace. No feedback will either quickly kill the thread (if to few people got interested) or derail it in some unexpected direction.

I have posted some questions here (and in other forums on this site) over the years and for the most part gotten good answers. I have also started a few discussions, and again, for the most part, gotten interesting replies.

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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every moment of it!By the way, film is not dead.It just smells funny

I like this forum. It's everything you say it is. It's getting worse. One day I'll leave. But for now it's not as nasty as FM. So I like it.

I've given serious thought to joining the Nikonians forum. I'm a professional generally looking for advanced information. I'm tired of forums where photographers primarily comment on price. I wish there was somewhere I could interact with pros, or fellow NPS members. If you know of such a forum send me a PM!

I fully support "PaleRiderBath" . Surely the idea of these forums is to help members with their equipment, photographs, and in general things to do with photography. A forum the other day spent time correcting the spelling of the word "lens". Perhaps we should be more tolerant of those people who in some cases come form non English backgrounds. If this is not the case then what sort of world are we in?. It makes you wonder if the forum has lost it's way.

...which should provide some level of immunity. You seem to have enough sense to recognize that different tools work optimally for different jobs.

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I wear a badge and pistol, and, primarily with 7D cameras, with 10-22mm and 100mm Macro L lenses, shoot evidentiary images at night, which incorporates elements of portrait, macro, still life, landscape, architecture, PJ, and occasional action. During personal time, I enjoy using both Canons and Nikons.

Take a look at the Nikon FX forum - most posts do not include pictures.

Yes, this is an equipment forum, but...

People with Leica cameras (or even other cameras) take pictures and like to post and discuss them.

People with Nikon FX cameras are either A) always out taking pictures and do not have time to post and discuss them or B) they like to talk about equipment and do not take pictures (and therefore do not post or discuss them). For whatever reason.

Given the temperament that you outline I'd guess B) is happening around here. People who take pictures are generally very happy and fulfilled. People who do not are cranky and argumentative. Trolling, however, is simply a behavior (or even a sport) all its own outside of any specific genre.

Therefore, the solution to this forum atmosphere is for people to go take more pictures Whether or not they post them here.

I have been around for ten years now (in other DPR forums) and only three months in this forum, and I think that this forum has to be the worse that I have experienced. Sorry, but I have to agree with the OP.

I joined this forum about 12 years ago. I notice that the caliber of the posts varies with the proximity to a new camera release. When a major upgrade, such as the D700 to D800, occurs there is more useful info here than between releases.

If there is nothing to talk about, people tend to troll and squabble.

Some of us hope that someone will post an intelligent question because it usually leads to useful information. I've learned a lot on this forum over the years. I feel my technical skills have improved because of it.

So, if you have a few questions, be sure you have thought them through. Provide background on skill level, photographic intent, and preferences. You wont get a useful response if you ask what lens to use when you don't say what it is to be used for.

Are you new to the internet? I have been on since 1989 and it has been the same from the beginning and will probably only get worse.

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Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planningWSSA #44

No. I have had a year's more use than you, it seems. One of the things that my university excelled in at the time was having well equipped computing suites. My observation is just that the signal here is getting drowned in the noise a little now. Maybe that is how things are now, maybe it is just a blip. I wondered what others thought or if I would just be better sticking with FM.

Try performance auto forums if you think it is rough here. You will be typing with a gun in your hand.

This place, populated by strangers, is no different than venturing out on the highway and having an assortment of characters now and then flipping you off for driving "only" 10 MPH above the speed limit while in the slow lane of a highway, 4 lanes each direction.

And you'll also find those other drivers you never seen before wave back at you with thanks when you slow down to make room for them to move over to exit the highway or whatever.

So, in my mind, this place is like venturing out into a public space - you never know what you'll see, read, or hear.

That being said, I'd be a photographic zero without all the generous and knowledgeable forum members who have given of their time to help me become better at what is, for me, a truly wonderful hobby.

I joined this forum about 12 years ago. I notice that the caliber of the posts varies with the proximity to a new camera release. When a major upgrade, such as the D700 to D800, occurs there is more useful info here than between releases.

If there is nothing to talk about, people tend to troll and squabble.

This is pretty much it - well sumed up. No new camera out, D600 oil issues beat to death. Same goes for D800 AF. Once the DF feature set was discussed a million times, that got old too. So in between serious questions, we get bored and squabble a bit. Usually someone such as Shotcents gets it going, but at least with Robert you pretty much know what to expect. Then you get the fellows that want to be ignorant in what they think is a polite way, and then go "I don't want to argue". At least with Robert there's no pretense.

Some of us hope that someone will post an intelligent question because it usually leads to useful information. I've learned a lot on this forum over the years. I feel my technical skills have improved because of it.

So, if you have a few questions, be sure you have thought them through. Provide background on skill level, photographic intent, and preferences. You wont get a useful response if you ask what lens to use when you don't say what it is to be used for.