Friendlysociopath wrote:...Millions of guys who say, "She's in location X!" Followed by Vader turning to look at the camera that looks at location X.

Followed by Vader saying in which room is the camera in, or if he's in said room, has to switch to camera number Y. By the time he sees it. Zeratul would have vanished or the other three dudes would've blasted through the Stormies.

Blasted through Stormies sure- left the area entirely? No. Not if they have an ounce of caution and want to take the base at less than a dead sprint the whole way. One camera up in the corner of a large room would easily allow you to look through the area faster than most of these guys would leave. Are they never going to peer around a corner or take a moment to survey the situation? Check bodies? Etc?The one dude being invisible isn't likely to stop Vader, the Force allows you to react without sight, that's like the ONE thing we know for sure from the movies.

Also unless there's hundreds of combinations- Vader will have a narrowed search each time."Corridor A"Can only lead to Corridor B or C. Check those cameras- finds the perp. Or if they kept going-

"Corridor B"Can only lead to Corridor E or F. Check those cameras- finds the perp.

And then a pattern emerges that they're apparently headed straight towards Vader, assuming they know where he is. Vader then with his Force guiding him (he's tracked Luke across star systems) can presumably figure out exactly where they're going and be ready for the choke once they show up. If he doesn't just figure it out with the Force back up at Corridor A.

Friendlysociopath wrote:Blasted through Stormies sure- left the area entirely? No. Not if they have an ounce of caution and want to take the base at less than a dead sprint the whole way. One camera up in the corner of a large room would easily allow you to look through the area faster than most of these guys would leave. Are they never going to peer around a corner or take a moment to survey the situation? Check bodies? Etc?The one dude being invisible isn't likely to stop Vader, the Force allows you to react without sight, that's like the ONE thing we know for sure from the movies.

I don't think Zeratul needs to be overcautious given that he's already invisible to the visible eye.Samus has an automatic mapping system where it can map an entire room, and Samus Returns adds some massive mapping ability with a scan.Marneus Calgar has terminator armor an Iron Halo. I don't think he needs caution.All 4 of them will have blown the bodies to nothing, put a massive hole than a normal bullet would, or bisect a person.

Invisible next to the force user? Sure. Invisible in front of a camera? Plausible, but not certain.

Friendlysociopath wrote:Also unless there's hundreds of combinations- Vader will have a narrowed search each time."Corridor A"Can only lead to Corridor B or C. Check those cameras- finds the perp. Or if they kept going-

"Corridor B"Can only lead to Corridor E or F. Check those cameras- finds the perp.

And then a pattern emerges that they're apparently headed straight towards Vader, assuming they know where he is. Vader then with his Force guiding him (he's tracked Luke across star systems) can presumably figure out exactly where they're going and be ready for the choke once they show up. If he doesn't just figure it out with the Force back up at Corridor A.

I don't recall it working like that on the Death Star as they couldn't track the rebels after they destroyed one of the cameras in the detainment center.

When did Vader track Luke across Star Systems? I remember Cloud City and Endor but that was way less than "across the solar system" and that was because Luke was a powerful force user himself.

Friendlysociopath wrote:Blasted through Stormies sure- left the area entirely? No. Not if they have an ounce of caution and want to take the base at less than a dead sprint the whole way. One camera up in the corner of a large room would easily allow you to look through the area faster than most of these guys would leave.

Shepard and Zeratul can be invisible and/or either teleport or warp around. So they'd be likely to get around a lot easier with less hassle or being seen or exiting an area quickly.

Friendlysociopath wrote:The one dude being invisible isn't likely to stop Vader, the Force allows you to react without sight, that's like the ONE thing we know for sure from the movies.

React without sight, yes but typically to immediate dangers, like someone is about to shoot you. The rest of the time it tends to just tell something is off rather than were someone is or who they are or what you should be looking for or that there is an invisible person. They'd need to have a Luke or Ahsoka like connection to him for him to feel them out like that.

Friendlysociopath wrote:Are they never going to peer around a corner or take a moment to survey the situation? Check bodies? Etc?

Omni-tool scanning, remote drones, radar, mind reading. Shepard and Zeratul kind of don't need to expose themselves. They can scope out an area without even needing to be out in the open.Plus camera's are kind of big and destructible even without tech hacking or breaking like Shepardhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtoHjGWc2s8Han and Luke take out a few before anyone gets a look at what's happening during a firefight. Empire security isn't always exactly stellar.And there is no way Vader would just wait around for them. He's both proactive as well as impatient. He is the exact kind of person to go hunting for people that are hunting him.

Lowk wrote:Omni-tool scanning, remote drones, radar, mind reading. Shepard and Zeratul kind of don't need to expose themselves. They can scope out an area without even needing to be out in the open.Plus camera's are kind of big and destructible even without tech hacking or breaking like Shepardhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtoHjGWc2s8Han and Luke take out a few before anyone gets a look at what's happening during a firefight. Empire security isn't always exactly stellar.And there is no way Vader would just wait around for them. He's both proactive as well as impatient. He is the exact kind of person to go hunting for people that are hunting him.

Han and Luke had a generous chunk of plot armor in their pants and had said chunk throughout the entire trilogy. Leia had a tank fire at her and just barely miss with zero damage. Meanwhile- handheld blasters are killing people dead just by hitting near them. You tell me- should we judge the Empire based on interacting with the heroes or on other showings? More bolts hit their target in Rogue One than in the entire original trilogy.

Agreed that Vader isn't likely to sit around and wait- but he's currently got multiple bogies coming at him from all directions toting weapons that are far more powerful than what he's used to. Sitting and taking a moment to think about this and attack indirectly is not impossible or incredibly unlikely. Vader IIRC had no hand in destroying Xizor's forces or his fortress beyond telling his underlings to do it and the entire book goes into detail about how he's having his own little subterfuge war with him. Impatience doesn't mean dumb. If multiple enemies are shaking off blast bolts and annihilating entire hallways of Stormtroopers- I somehow doubt Vader's first response is gonna be charging them head-on.He's not at the Death Star for fun- but to serve the Emperor.

If we use the Metroid manga where Samus rescues Damara, and since he space pirates didn't even see Samus while standing at least 1 m. away from the child, and since the brain can see an image in as little as 13 milliseconds, using 12 milliseconds for the lowest (since the space pirates didn't notice Samus), that would give her a speed of 83.33 m/s. With the 3,400% increase for Samus with phase drift, she would appear to others as moving at 2,833.33 m/s, or Mach 8.26.

Pretty sure the idea concerning cameras has been illogically hand waved. This is a moon sized station likely full of security, be it blast doors, cameras and droids. The counter of "nah, they can go invisible" does not cover the obvious facts they have been there or "nah, their quick they will move on" does not counter the fact Vaders not daft enough not to just look further on, its not unlikely to suggest he knows where one room leads to the next and finally, hes not necessarily going to be alone, OP says the army is there so they can help him search.

I don't think their all going to be able to find vader or even one of them before at he sees at least one of them on Camera and proceeds to force crush, choke or god knows what else he wants to do which may leave them open for further attacks from the army.

Theres no certainty that they can get to him before he does that in any case, giving a branching discussion on how many crushed victims there are before the first person even finds them, if they ever do on a moon sized station. The only counter could be if Vaders CIS stops him from doing that but I doubt it, he did not get on a ship to go and face the admiral in person before he choked him through coms in the movie.

Friendlysociopath wrote:Han and Luke had a generous chunk of plot armor in their pants and had said chunk throughout the entire trilogy. Leia had a tank fire at her and just barely miss with zero damage. Meanwhile- handheld blasters are killing people dead just by hitting near them. You tell me- should we judge the Empire based on interacting with the heroes or on other showings? More bolts hit their target in Rogue One than in the entire original trilogy.

That had nothing to do with them getting shot. I'm talking about how the whole scene happened and the security elsewhere didn't catch it on camera before it ended. You can't even apply plot armor to that because their ploy failed. Whether they took cams out or not didn't even matter as reinforcements where being sent anyway.

Friendlysociopath wrote:Agreed that Vader isn't likely to sit around and wait- but he's currently got multiple bogies coming at him from all directions toting weapons that are far more powerful than what he's used to.

We are talking about a man who charged in solo against multiple rebel ships without knowing their stats or numbershttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCgjvI6VJeYA guy who would face a master Jedi specifically honed in the art of combat, without a Lightsaber, face to face knowing full well how dangerous that was.https://imgur.com/a/5YI8sA man who instead of simply making a diversion and running from a surrounding army of rebel with armor support choose to threaten then fight them. https://imgur.com/a/vgU53After previously charging head first again into a squadron of fighterhttps://imgur.com/a/il9o0

Instead of waiting for reinforcements, he charged in alone against Cylo's best without knowing their full capabilities. At one point when he managed to survive what they thought had killed him. He made an announcement directly to them alerting them to his presence. Having full knowledge that the mad scientist was one of the people who was responsible for rebuilding him. It almost got him beat if Cylo hadn't monologued long enough for Vader to flashback his way out.As much as he tries to distance himself from it, Vader is Anakin. And Anakin prefers facing things head-on and most certainly sure of himself when it comes to combat. The biggest difference is he can do it menacingly now.

Friendlysociopath wrote:Impatience doesn't mean dumb. If multiple enemies are shaking off blast bolts and annihilating entire hallways of Stormtroopers- I somehow doubt Vader's first response is gonna be charging them head-on.

He definitely not going to sit back and wait for cameras. Vader just like Anakin prefers the frontlines. Sure he can be crafty when he gets there but he normally shows up none the less.

Kitten Lord wrote:Pretty sure the idea concerning cameras has been illogically hand waved. This is a moon sized station likely full of security, be it blast doors, cameras and droids. The counter of "nah, they can go invisible" does not cover the obvious facts they have been there or "nah, their quick they will move on" does not counter the fact Vaders not daft enough not to just look further on, its not unlikely to suggest he knows where one room leads to the next and finally, hes not necessarily going to be alone, OP says the army is there so they can help him search.

1.7 million military is apparently the population the deathstar can hold according to Star Wars: Complete Locations.

Shepard and Zeratul still seem like the best equipped for the job. Both are basically Jedi that can fuck with technological means of security and can gather information about their surroundings. Granted, Samus's scanner could as well but they have simpler means of staying out of sight or vanishing from most situations should things get hairy.

Kitten Lord wrote:Pretty sure the idea concerning cameras has been illogically hand waved. This is a moon sized station likely full of security, be it blast doors, cameras and droids. The counter of "nah, they can go invisible" does not cover the obvious facts they have been there or "nah, their quick they will move on" does not counter the fact Vaders not daft enough not to just look further on, its not unlikely to suggest he knows where one room leads to the next and finally, hes not necessarily going to be alone, OP says the army is there so they can help him search.

Invisibility does, however, hinder the further use of cameras.

Kitten Lord wrote:I don't think their all going to be able to find vader or even one of them before at he sees at least one of them on Camera and proceeds to force crush, choke or god knows what else he wants to do which may leave them open for further attacks from the army.

I don't think Vader can choke what he can't see on screen with Zeratul and Shepard, and he certainly can't do it to Samus.The Imperial army is his best bet though.

Friendlysociopath wrote:Han and Luke had a generous chunk of plot armor in their pants and had said chunk throughout the entire trilogy. Leia had a tank fire at her and just barely miss with zero damage. Meanwhile- handheld blasters are killing people dead just by hitting near them. You tell me- should we judge the Empire based on interacting with the heroes or on other showings? More bolts hit their target in Rogue One than in the entire original trilogy.

That had nothing to do with them getting shot. I'm talking about how the whole scene happened and the security elsewhere didn't catch it on camera before it ended. You can't even apply plot armor to that because their ploy failed. Whether they took cams out or not didn't even matter as reinforcements where being sent anyway.

I can do anything- I'm eccentric- meow.

Lowk wrote:

Kitten Lord wrote:Pretty sure the idea concerning cameras has been illogically hand waved. This is a moon sized station likely full of security, be it blast doors, cameras and droids. The counter of "nah, they can go invisible" does not cover the obvious facts they have been there or "nah, their quick they will move on" does not counter the fact Vaders not daft enough not to just look further on, its not unlikely to suggest he knows where one room leads to the next and finally, hes not necessarily going to be alone, OP says the army is there so they can help him search.

1.7 million military is apparently the population the deathstar can hold according to Star Wars: Complete Locations.

Coulda sworn I found a source that said millions plural, but I can't find it and all my searches gave me was this.The first Death Star is depicted in various sources of having a crew of 265,675, as well as 52,276 gunners, 607,360 troops, 30,984 stormtroopers, 42,782 ship support staff, and 180,216 pilots and support crew.

Lowk wrote:Shepard and Zeratul still seem like the best equipped for the job. Both are basically Jedi that can fuck with technological means of security and can gather information about their surroundings. Granted, Samus's scanner could as well but they have simpler means of staying out of sight or vanishing from most situations should things get hairy.

Hadn't thought of that. The characters that can't hide would be more likely to draw Stormtrooper attention and slow them down, meanwhile, the stealthy ones are more likely to have free reign and sneak up to take down the target when he's occupied.