That is entirely correct and has been the case from the start of the Puppy project. Had Puppy been a democratic entity, it would never have got to where it is today. Someone needs to have the last word.

That may be frustrating for Rob, but that's life.

That's not to say that the users should be totally ignored as per a dictatorship, but the co-ordinator has the last word on any issue and does not have to accept even minor arm-twisting. I don't blame WhoDo for wanting to get out either. I would be the same, but don't let this business with Rob put you off doing Puppy in whatever way it suits you WhoDo. This ought to be a pleasant hobby experience for you and nothing more. Rob's problems have got nothing whatsoever to do with you. I doubt if I would have put up with a tenth of what you have had to listen to as project-co-ordinator.

Motto of dictator: take it or leave it - no-one's forcing you to use Puppy - end of story._________________Life is too short to spend it in front of a computer

I apologise to the rest of the online community for the length of the argument and this especially lengthy post in response.

No need to apologize.

That was EPIC!!

Yeah, I think I had the 1812 Overture playing full volume in my head at the time, too! _________________Actions speak louder than words ... and they usually work when words don't!
SIP:whodo@proxy01.sipphone.com; whodo@realsip.com

Considering Ive been likened to a "terrorist", told I "contribute nothing to puppy", implied I "contribute nothing to society" and that I "dont take responsibility for my mistakes" and accused of "threatening" and "bullying" , its is a good thing that I do already hold that belief.

What I have done is asked you to fix the bugs in 4.2 as they are quite serious to "linux newbies", asked you to give it a priority for this reason, discussed how we might avoid those bugs in the future, and offered to co-ordinate it myself if you dont have the time. I also let you know in advance and in private if you were not willing to let me know I would ask the wider community publicly, so as to avoid a "rift".

Ive never to my knowledge resorted to "observations" about your character, and when Ive mis-communicated, Ive apologised for any offence Ive caused. If were going to get spiritual about this (which may not be a bad thing) then perhaps you should take note of this

Matthew 7:2 - Bible in Basic English wrote:

For as you have been judging, so you will be judged, and with your measure will it be measured to you.

[url="http://bible.cc/matthew/7-2.htm"]Source[/url]

Ive known Bankers, Investment Managers, Millionaires and stockbrokers as well as community centre volunteers, nurses, sewage workers and binmen, and come to the conclusion that personal income is a poor indicator of a persons worth to society. What society needs more than just one more person paying taxes and a mortgage, is someone who will speak up and do something when something isnt right.

I save the taxpayer far more money than I cost them through my free work with community centre, hospitals, schools etc so I lose no sleep at night over it. But you are right I shouldnt "Expect" anyone to pay my way, so Im going to take your observation as a "gift" and make sure I get myself "signed off" soon....selling recycled puppy-pc's perhaps?

In the meantime, you have clarified where you are with the 4.2.1 bugfix, confirmed you are actually going to do it, and let the community know a lot about what has been discussed privately between the main development team. A very dedicated and talented coder (with broad shoulders) has even fixed a lot of the bugs introduced and produced something from which to start from. I am happy, as will be many new puppy users/ex windows users when it is released. Dont windows users pay "taxes" too?

Back to work everybody....weve got a modern day printing press to make!!!

The open source model would conceptually appear to deny all attempts to impose authority, yet its discourse of "newbies" and "gurus" exposes more than a little of its underlying arrogance.

But what do the open source community respect most: The dictatorial approach or the diplomatic (imperialism versus brotherhood); clean, green and environmentally friendly, or, HE who SHOUTS loudest?

Let the community decide!

But which is Stallman (since he is surely the model whose personality and proclamations most defines the open source movement generally): the arrogant child-like dictator or the selfless (perhaps somewhat patriarchal) provider; or is he some more complex other?

And is there EGO and ECO in both camps? Or is the answer 42?

A thought provoking and amusing thread, which is almost as funny as the Shingledecker/Andrews DSL debacle. But my vote is for Barry Kauler (rather than against anyone else); it is his Puppy.

The open source model would conceptually appear to deny all attempts to impose authority, yet its discourse of "newbies" and "gurus" exposes more than a little of its underlying arrogance.

But what do the open source community respect most: The dictatorial approach or the diplomatic (imperialism versus brotherhood); clean, green and environmentally friendly, or, HE who SHOUTS loudest?

Let the community decide!

But which is Stallman (since he is surely the model whose personality and proclamations most defines the open source movement generally): the arrogant child-like dictator or the selfless (perhaps somewhat patriarchal) provider; or is he some more complex other?

And is there EGO and ECO in both camps? Or is the answer 42?

A thought provoking and amusing thread, which is almost as funny as the Shingledecker/Andrews DSL debacle. But my vote is for Barry Kauler (rather than against anyone else); it is his Puppy.

You obiously didn't read how ecomoney complained... But he has admited he was on a bad day.

Whodo could end this today, but, i think a bit of his way of doing things comes from thinking "If I let him get what he want's, he'll continue demanding from me".

Well it looks like the fire has died down on both sides. I can't say that it is a satisfactory conclusion, but at least it looks to be over. As someone said above, Ttuuxxx has set a good precedent for how to handle this type of situation. I hope that exchanges like this do not become commonplace in the Puppy community._________________Be brave that God may help thee, speak the truth even if it leads to death, and safeguard the helpless. - A knight's oath

WhoDo said that there are fixes available, but he wants to hold off on making the new iso until there are more fixes to put in it.

End of problem.

Yet, this simple thing was inflated to massive proportions.

Why? Bad communication? Impatience? A refusal to accept a decision?

In the end, what was accomplished? A promise that the bug fixed iso will eventually appear (which should have already been obvious), after which WhoDo intends to resign.

In other words, all that this served to do was lose us a coordinator.

Yes, it also resulted in ttuuxxx's bug-fixed version, but wouldn't it have been much simpler if Ecomoney had simply popped one of those out himself? I believe he already said he's perfectly capable of doing that... (Yes, his point was that he shouldn't have to - and see where that got us?)

Maybe we can take this, and previous occurrences, and learn from them: When somebody has listened to and acknowledged your gripes, and stated plainly that they're going to do what they're going to do, stop griping. Once a person has made their decision, further complaints are a waste of time, and a pain in the ascii.

From what I've seen, most of the problems we've had during 4.2's development were because somebody had a problem, explained their issue, and then continued to complain over and over about it.

I'm not meaning to sound accusatory here. I understand the need to make one's ideas known and the desire to do whatever it takes to make Puppy as good as it can be. I'm just hoping we can learn from this, so we don't repeat it._________________Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib

Another one is user friendly configurability.
Why should I have to go to edit a file to get my clock in 24 hour format. A nice gui to configure such functionality and other ones would be more then welcome.

Something like this?

EDITED: Since this pet has already been linked to from ordinary, less dramatic threads, here's a clean v-0.2. Alright, Béèm?

Another one is user friendly configurability.
Why should I have to go to edit a file to get my clock in 24 hour format. A nice gui to configure such functionality and other ones would be more then welcome.

Something like this?

Cheers/
MHHP

I'll try it when in puppy._________________Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
Consult Wikka
Use peppyy's puppysearch

Another one is user friendly configurability.
Why should I have to go to edit a file to get my clock in 24 hour format. A nice gui to configure such functionality and other ones would be more then welcome.

Something like this?

Cheers/
MHHP

I'll try it when in puppy.

Good looking. Should be in every puppy from now on, but maybe as part of the jwm configuration. (and without the drama )
Tried in upup Jaunty._________________Time savers:
Find packages in a snap and install using Puppy Package Manager (Menu).
Consult Wikka
Use peppyy's puppysearch

@Pizzasgood: It could be something like this from Robert: "You're the coordinator, but in the meantime that you are holding off the bugfix release, I hope you don't get offended if I post an interim bugfix version."

@WhoDo: My sympathies for the emotional stress (added to physical fatigue) that this caused. I hope your family will still want to hear the word "pup..." after this. _________________Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? Get the sfs (English only).

@Pizzasgood: It could be something like this from Robert: "You're the coordinator, but in the meantime while you are sitting on your ass, holding off the bugfix release, I hope you don't get offended if I post an interim bugfix version and shove it in your face."

@WhoDo: My sympathies for the emotional stress (added to physical fatigue) that this caused. I hope your family will still want to hear the word "pup..." after this next statement:) Why the hell do you think that you run this release? You've done nothing but bitch and complain, really you need to take a chill pill and go call someone who actually gives a crap what you think, I'm the Coordinator and the buck stops here! Got it chump!! and please I do mean that with the utter most respect for you

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