What arbitration for Ryan O’Reilly, Avalanche really means

Colorado Avalanche center Ryan O’Reilly shoots on goal against the Edmonton Oilers during the first period of an NHL hockey game on Friday, Jan. 2, 2015, in Denver. (Jack Dempsey, The Associated Press)

It appears all but certain the Avs and Ryan O’Reilly are headed to arbitration. The date is July 23 in Toronto.

Each party has said this isn’t personal, that it’s just business. But, of course it’s personal. It’s been personal for a couple years now. The Avs think O’Reilly is out of line in wanting to break the bank every time he’s up for a new contract, and O’Reilly’s camp thinks the Avs have slighted him by taking him to arbitration. It will be a forced marriage between the two parties for no more than two more years.

Well, unless someone involved wants to be a peacemaker and swallow their pride some. It could happen I suppose, but if I were in Vegas I’d bet $0.000000001 on that happening.

O’Reilly just has to have this mindset: “I only have to play here two more years. By then, I’m only 25 and a UFA. I’ll play wherever I want, at top dollar!”

The Avs will think: “OK, we’ll listen to every offer that comes in for him. If they’re not good enough, we’ll keep him locked up for two years and get the benefits of his play in that time. Maybe something will change that will want to make him finally accept our terms. If not, we’ll deal him away for a good return. We control the cards!”

Here’s the thing: the longer the Avs keep him in these two years. the less his trade value will be. Any team that acquires him — and gives up a lot to get him — has to be assured he’ll sign there long-term. Otherwise, the Avs will be stuck with an expiring-contract-soon-to-be-UFA player that only gets something like a second-round pick and a no-name prospect. Let’s say O’Reilly is still with the Avs by the deadline of the 2015-16 season, and clearly going to the open market when the season is over: the Avs won’t get as much for him as they might, say, right now.

Each side is to blame in all this. The Avs could have probably signed him to a bridge deal at $4 million a year the last time, but held fast to the “We don’t pay anybody any more than Matt Duchene ($3.5 million at the time)” internal salary cap and they got burned by an offer sheet for O’Reilly by their good friend, Jay Feaster. No matter how you slice it, that was Avalanche management’s fault. It was the risk they took for that hard line, and they were made to pay, quite literally and figuratively.

But now the shoe is somewhat on the other foot. O’Reilly is holding to “I take nothing less than my last contract” stance, which I’m sure he believes is $6.5 million (though his cap hit is $5 million) and he has to accept the terms of the CBA. He can say, “No worries, I’m UFA in two years!” all he wants, but he accepts the risk that he might suffer a serious injury before then and/or his statistics drop a lot and his market value plummets. No doubt the Avs would/have offered a long-term deal at more than $5.5 million per, and by turning that down, he assumes the risk that he won’t get hurt or flame out as a player before then.

My prediction remains the same: the Avs will keep him only so long as they don’t get a great trade offer for him. There is no question, though, that they have to trade him within two years if they know they can’t sign him. O’Reilly controls the cards on that if he wants. He can reject all offers by Colorado, with the mindset of “They never valued me for what I was really worth, so screw them, I’ll leave in two years max” and essentially force the Avs to trade him before then. Otherwise, he’ll leave for nothing. Just like Paul Stastny did.

The fans I’ve heard from seem to be split down the middle on this whole thing. One half thinks O’Reilly is greedy and who needs him. The other half thinks the Avs are getting pennywise and pound foolish again, and frittering away their top young talent over a few bucks in Stan Kroenke’s voluminous account.

We could see a trade of O’Reilly at any moment. If so, the Avs need to act soon probably, to get the best return. Otherwise, these two will endure an unhappy marriage, for no more than two years.

Sigh, everything looked so great last season and now it’s all coming undone. Stastny is gone and now it looks like O’Reilly will be too. This is so stupid and frustrating, this team is on the upswing and they can’t hold onto key freaking players. What can we expect when it comes time for MacKinnon to get paid? Hell, it’s looking like the only reason things went smoothly with Duchene was because he wanted to be with the Avs and probably took less than he could have gotten, otherwise I wonder if they’d have had issues with him as well. I’m already over this bs, be adults and get a damn deal done.

Unfortunately Avs you need O’Reilly more than he needs you because other teams will happily take him so you’re gonna have to come up a little, and seriously O’Reilly $6.5 million is too much for your production, come back to reality.

tigervixxxen

MacKinnon has a sane agent for starters (the same one as Duchene). He’s also a franchise player, he will get a generous contract. Landy and Varly were not difficult either.

Cougs_suck

I hope you’re right. I just know Duchene took less money because he struggled (something athletes never do) and then signed the longer extension with the Avs at a price I would still consider below what he could have gotten. I would imagine the agent didn’t advise him to do those things.

This deal with O’Reilly was set in motion a few years ago with a different front office though so there’s probably no reason to worry about Mack, I guess I’m just frustrated by this whole thing.

FlapJack

Word.

I think everyone is frustrated. In nine cases out of ten, I tend to side with a player, who I feel has every right to maximize his earnings while he’s able. It gets old, though, when players have their agents squeeze teams for every cent.

I think Duchene’s contract was a perfect example of how you can get an arguably fair market value without boning the team that pays you, with an eye on leaving cap space to build. O’Reilly likes to have this persona of team player, but both times he’s had to negotiate, he’s shown where his priorities are.

At this point, I can’t wait for him to be traded, because how does Duchene or Landeskog feel when it comes time to pay someone on the team and they’re strapped for cap space because the team is paying a second-line winger first-line center money?

Chris DeMott

Ah… The Avs will be ok. Ryan O’Reilly is not Wayne Gretzky. This is a set back, but not a franchise killer. Joe, Patty, Varley, Gabe, Matt, Nate, Iggy, Tangs, EJ and Tyson will hold us over as this team continues to build. They will be more balanced this year than they have in 10 –oh and Ryan has to play his butt off. He has no choice, the whole league is watching.

Cougs_suck

Well considering Stastny walked for nothing it would make losing O’Reilly a bigger set back. And besides, you suck for years, draft guys that pan out, it’d be nice to hold onto them instead of dumping them and hoping you can replace them. Plus the moves they made during the off season (besides losing Stastny) indicate they want to make a Cup run soon, they didn’t sign guys or trade for guys who will be around in 5 years, there are more holes that will have to be filled, it would be nice not to have to create one by trading away a great young player.

I understand the Avs don’t hold all the blame here, or even much of it this time around. O’Reilly and his agent are being completely ridiculous, this is just highly frustrating when you think everything is great and the team is on it’s way up and then they run into more trouble with one of their best young players. It’s just stupid that a deal can’t be worked out, I wish O’Reilly would dump his agent he seems to be a real pain in the rear.

Chris DeMott

Agreed, but Patrick Roy looks even smarter now switching him to left wing. There are left handed shots with his production ability out there to replace him with. These guy’s will be much easier to come by than two-way centers. Yes, it sucks to lose his defense and lack of penalty minutes. But, if I’m Matt or Gabe or Varly or Mack or maybe Chris Bigras some day — I just gained a boat load of trust in those guys. When they preach “team” and “win for each other”, I’m going to believe them.

rockiesghost

I think the AVS will be able to get good value back, if they can get a top 6 defense that would be even greater. Because, if newport is the agency for Barrie we might be seeing that again, but then again he can tell them to back down.

tigervixxxen

Don’t leave out Newport in all of this, they have a long history of holdouts and brinkmanship. I’m not sure they’ve even given this their best effort with two weeks to go.

Sure it would have been nice to get him signed back then but that 5 year deal he wanted would still have only bought the Avs one more year until he hit UFA.

With all the contracts the Avs have handed out since Joe and Patty took over and the fact that they will have one of the highest payrolls in the league this year, the whole penny pinching argument doesn’t hold as much weight. I’d HATE to see O’Reilly go but I also don’t need to see them beg him with dollars to stay. If someone truly doesn’t care if they are here or not then they need to move on.

rockiesghost

of course the more money O’Reilly gets the better commission they will have, they don’t care about a cup, even if he is traded to crappy team they will portray that its the win for Ryan.

Brad

Can’t really blame the Avs/Kroenke on this one by claiming they are pinching pennies. Duchene, Landeskog, and Varly all got locked up on long team deals with no issue. Mitchell and McGinn signed this offseason with no issue. O’Reilly/his agent want more and just as the Avs seemed unwilling to negotiate with him under the previous regime, he seems unwilling to negotiate this time.

Smell the Glove

“The Avs think O’Reilly is out of line in wanting to break the bank every time he’s up for a new contract, and O’Reilly’s camp thinks the Avs have slighted him by taking him to arbitration.”

If both sides have said it’s not personal, shouldn’t you designate the above as a writer’s opinion?

I also find fault in the logic that the Avs are to blame when they could have paid him $4M when they had the chance. Why would they choose to pay him too much money just because an offer sheet contract was a possibility? If GMs used this logic RFAs would cash in all the time when offer sheets happen nearly never. That takes a lot of the point away from even having such a thing as a restricted free agent.

I’m pretty sick of the O’Reilly contract dispute but I’m resisting the urge to get pessimistic just because I don’t fully understand this negotiation. I’d take a shot at Dater here for his typical pessimism but the reality is, dude has been on a streak with his predictions lately so I’ma keep my mouth shut.

Cougs_suck

I don’t think Dater is being pessimistic here unfortunately. From the time O’Reilly’s agent went on TV to complain about the Avs weeks before anything was really going to happen, and made sure to mention the relationship was already strained, you could just tell this wasn’t going to go well. I’d be shocked if he isn’t traded at this point.

Smell the Glove

An agent taking a crack at the PR side of negotiations to garner a little sympathy for his client is hardly evidence of strain in and of itself.

I’m not saying the optics are great, but a little drama is good for papers too. Alls I’m sayin’.

Chris DeMott

The Stubborn young man comment is echoing though — In fact, it seems he is turning out to be just that. If I’m Joe I come out with some type of comment relating to he fact that they want to build with “team first” types of guys. That should put a little strain between Ryan and his agent.

Smell the Glove

“Patient” over stubborn would have been a better word choice there, for sure.

Cougs_suck

Well I was referring specifically to the fact he mentioned that there’s a history here already. I could be wrong I haven’t watched the interview in a while but I thought he said something along those lines.

Ron Biggs

I didn’t realise you were an offhand article reviewer for Dater here.

chantalrouleau

I’m almost hoping a team will give O’Reilly an offer sheet long term and the Avalanche matches it. This way, the other team would do the job for the Avalanche and allow them not to transgress their cap and structure issue.

Chris DeMott

An offer sheet can’t happen unless ROR opts for a one year deal in arbitration and we go through this again next year. That in my mind is crazy and as such he will be traded well before that happens.

http://marktavs.tumblr.com Mark T

Yeah all this “it’s personal” stuff comes pretty much straight out of people’s imaginations. Here’s an alternative theory: O’Reilly wants to make as much money as possible while he can. He (or his handlers) knows that hockey careers can be short, and they’ve made a decision that when it comes to contracts, their number 1 priority is money. It’s not about playing for the best team, the best city, team chemistry, or anything like that – it’s about money.

To me, the way O’Reilly and his agents have acted has been decided *not* personal. It seems like they are acting just like many people in the business world – trying to maximize profits as much as possible.

Many of us can’t relate to that way of thinking, but there are plenty of people in the world who think like that.

Cougs_suck

I don’t think this is imagined when the agent himself made mention of the history between the two and he said they were not pleased about being “arbed” if it’s just about business why do they make it seem so personal? Sakic has made this about business, ROR’s agent has made it more personal.

http://marktavs.tumblr.com Mark T

That would likely be a bargaining tactic. I seriously doubt any professional agent would make any public statements unless it was with a specific purpose. If he said they were not pleased, it may have been to turn public opinion against Avs management and put more pressure on them to give in to the agent’s demands.

Chris DeMott

You know they are only going to take a one year deal… They actually think there are more Jay Feasters out there waiting to throw down ridiculous offer sheets.

Cougs_suck

Look at what Stastny got, if O’Reilly hits the market there will be suitors. If the Avs are going to trade him they need to strike while the irons hot and just bite the bullet of losing one of their good young players.

Chris DeMott

Oh yes, Joe will be on the phone the day after the arb deal goes through. ROR is gone, this year — it’s not if, but when, and for how much. Look for a media-leak auction to start as all the different GM’s float trial balloons. AD and Chambers will have plenty to write about. I don’t think he will get a long term offer sheet from anyone because then the Avs could match and take away his UFA for longer time. However, an exception might be a shorter term deal from a bottom feeder, because at that point a high first round pick might be tempting.

tigervixxxen

He can’t get an offer sheet, that deadline already passed.

Chris DeMott

He can, if he opts for a one year deal and does this again next year.

OCMS

He might already be on the phone. A GM lets him know that if ROR comes out of arb with a contract of x dollars/ term, we will trade you _____.

avsfoodsleep

I cant see it going that far, once arbitartion is done, ROR is gunna be shopped, if he isnt already being shopped around. We just gotta find a GM stupid enough to take him and give us something delicious in return….like yandle, or kane.

FlapJack

Would be so annoying if they do. I hope he looks at a two-year deal as a way to let some of this blow over and try to rehab his image a bit. “Look here, [all-other-NHL-franchises], I took the two-year award, showing conclusively that I’m not just selfish and all about the money and I don’t seek to put the organization in an uncomfortable situation every time my contract is up-slash-maximize every possible opportunity for a money-grab!”

Taking a two-year deal would also increase his chances of getting traded, which would likely only happen to a team that is willing to pay him closer to what he wants.

Chris DeMott

You’re right… But, I bet you he won’t.

avsfoodsleep

Except i have a feeling that he doesnt think his image is tarnished.
if he wanted to shake the image of being greedy, he would have taken whatever the avs offered him initially this year.

FlapJack

You’re probably right. He doesn’t seem to live on this place we like to call Earth.

chantalrouleau

Don’t like the looks of all this. For some reason, I thought it would be just the same as last time and guess what? How frustrating. In my opinion, the only question right now is “Does Ryan O’Reilly want to play for the Avalanche?” Doesn’t look like it! How about Evander Kane for Ryan O’Reilly?

Cougs_suck

I’ve heard Kane is a headcase, so not sure if he’s the guy you’d want to bring back for ROR. Would probably end up facing the same issues, but if he didn’t have the issues I’d say yes it would be nice to have a winger of his skill and grit.

tigervixxxen

Kane is already signed long term so at least that wouldn’t be an issue.

rockiesghost

and he is signed for 5.25 mil until 2018. I say trade him, kane is a big body that we need to play in the west. O’Reilly is a soft, great to way center but not a play maker.

OCMS

I think Kane’s issues are off ice stuff like dumb tweets and the like. Not contract issues. Maybe a trade would allow him to hit the re-set button on stuff like that.

FlapJack

I’ve been thinking this, too. Teams trade their problems for each other all the time (Wolski-Mueller…).

The problem is that many would argue that Kane is a better player than O’Reilly, so a one-for-one swap might be a challenge, especially with both players sabotaging their respective team’s bargaining power (Kane by insinuating he wants a trade, O’Reilly by scaring off teams with his contract demands).

Ultimately, this is a perfect swap, as The Avs could use a flashy winger with a mean streak to play with Duchene and the Jets could use a solid, two-way center who works hard and has some skill.

I feel like Kane has gotten a bit of a bum wrap by the fans/media in Winnipeg, and O’Reilly would go to a place where he can be The Man, which seems to be what he wants, so *fingers crossed* maybe this could be a possibility. I think it would be a rare trade where both teams could come away feeling pretty good about their returns.

Still, I can’t see Winnipeg cowing to his current contract demands either. But he’ll probably take less on a long-term deal wherever he ends up next as kind of a(n undeserved) middle-finger to the Avs’ brass.

FlapJack

Before anyone jumps on this; perhaps Kane isn’t a better player than O’Reilly, but he’s certainly a rarer player, and thus, arguably worth more.

avsfoodsleep

ROR doesnt play for a team, he plays for money. That mentality is ok in the corporate world but hockey is not as one-dimensional as the corporate world. He will see that once he starts getting bounced from team to team because of his attitude.

When you look at the situation with O’Reilly and Subban and you know both players are represented by the same agency you cannot ignore the responsibility of the Newport agency in this sad situation.
Yes, the Avs are to blame for the offer sheet situation but Newport is now playing a game that will not benefit O’Reilly in the long term.
O’Reilly is a winner and having the possibility to make 6 million $ a year on a young and promising team that could be competing for a Stanley cup soon should count for him.
If he goes for a 2 years deal following arbitration and continues to be so stubborn about money and refuses any long term offer next summer he will end up being traded to anyone foolish enough to give him the big pay check he is so eager to get.
Would this team be a contender ? I don’t think so. Does he really care only about money ? Is he ready to go through the frustration to play for a rebuilding team again ? Would the million more he would make be enough to make him happy losing night in and night out playing in Buffalo or Edmonton ?
I don’t think so. He really should look at the big picture there

Chris DeMott

Yeah, I think it is really disingenuous in the cap era for a player to claim that they are about “winning” and “team” and then turn around and egregiously seek a contract that would handicap their teams ability to build a winning roster. While, I do believe there does need to be a balance where players are able to make the kind of money equivalent to their production, I think agencies like Newport and players like Ryan O’Reilly make it difficult to maintain that balance.

chantalrouleau

I wonder if O’Reilly’s reputation around the league is tarnished or if the GMs think the Avalanche is playing a foolish game. In any event, there will always be a GM to give big contracts no matter what and O’Reilly will be money in bank for any team signing him…

Chris DeMott

I don’t think either is the case yet. The Avalanche are not playing a game in my opinion — I think in this case it is Newport insisting that that start negotiations at $6.5 or higher and I have a feeling that there is some “cake and eat it too” factor where they want a shorter term deal so ROR can also go to UFA in 3 to 4 years and get that $7.5 to $8M per season deal. Although, I think he probably could get that deal somewhere, down the road, it does not make sense for the Avalanche. In my opinion ROR is always going to be a really good but not great type of player who is always going to need that max value contract — the type of contract that throws the salary structure of the whole team out of line because once you do this for him you have the whole team lined up looking for a raise. The stakes are high and the Avalanche have to win this one. If you want to see a cup here they have to maintain salary control, because they have much more to get done within the defense and they will have to sign Mackinnion long term. The Toews and Kane contracts just raised all the prices as well. So, from the Avs point of view ROR has to skin his knee here.

Smell the Glove

Even Kane and Toews started the negotiation off at $12M/yr and ultimately settled on 10.5. I don’t think anyone considers that they lost out there- or skinned their knees. I think there is still time for a similar outcome to result with O’Reilly where both parties are satisfied.

Obviously not a perfect comparison; I’m only pointing out deals get done all the time when parties are far apart on price.

Chris DeMott

In that case however, both parties were A) UFA’s and B) continued to talk. The best info we have is that ROR’s side discontinued the discussion.

Smell the Glove

Add also Stanley Cup champions signing on with a perennial cup contender. It’s not a great example other than the basic fact that negotiations will exist in one way or another with everyone. Conflict is to be expected.

I’m not interested in defending the O’Reilly camp here, just pointing out that this is the only time parties get to argue over this so in and of itself I don’t have a problem with it getting a little bit tense. I myself dig in pretty hard that time a year, even if my boss is not 100% in love with me. I guess I just have a bigger issue with him signing the offer sheet than the rest of the stuff. One instance says he’s a tough negotiator and intends to get every penny he’s worth. The other instance seems to say… and he doesn’t care which team pays it.

Chris DeMott

Glove, all I can say is that Ryan O’Reilly was my favorite player. On the ice, he was the glue. He was the one who showed the others how to work, how to play right. But, this confuses the issue. Ryan O’Reilly’s actions may not be personal, but they are also not constructive. Ryan O’Reilly’s actions make it harder for the Avs to build a dominant team and a dominant team is what it takes to win a cup. Joe Sakic knows this, Patrick Roy knows this and Ryan O’Reilly knows this. But, right now it appears that Ryan is more about the money. That’s fine, Lebron James showed just this week that different people are about different things. I’m just of the opinion that they should be looking for players who are more about the Cup.

Smell the Glove

I’m just so skeptical of the personal angle here. Is there really drama unfolding here or are we just left to draw that conclusion after it’s filtered for print?

I’m with you, if this goes all the way to arbitration and none of the character questions have been resolved or answered then I’m just as ready to watch O’Reilly suit up for another team. But at this point it’s a lot of sword rattling and opinions. For me it’s just not enough to grab on to, so I’d like to see how it plays out before writing anyone off.

chantalrouleau

We shall not forget that Tyson Barrie has the same agency too I think. I just hope it doesn’t turn out the same way.

What would you ask for O’Reilly out of Edmonton or Buffalo. I would love Tyler Myers, but then again, it leaves the Avalanche with a big void on the left wing .

pascalp

What Tyson Barrie or Stefan Elliott will get entirely depends now on the result of the arbitration with O’Reilly.
I won’ speculate now on what could be the return for an O’Reilly as there is no doubt he will wear an Avalanche sweater next year.
If O’Reilly choses a one year contract following arbitration I think Avs will start listening to trade offers from next February on.
If he chooses a two years contract they will start listening to offers from next May on.
I think that he will be traded next summer if he doesn’t agree to an extension before that.
The Avs cannot do miracles anyway, they will start having cap management problems rather sooner than later because of their lack of prospects.
Another problem they will be facing this summer is their number of defensemen. They have 8 defensemen, 7 of them on a one way contract (Nick Holden is entering the last year of a 2 way deal) and still Barrie and Elliott to sign.
They will not be able to keep 10 defensemen so there might be some changes coming soon

bob_w

From what we are seeing now from O’Reilly I am very happy he is not our captain.

Ric

O’Reilly to Detroit in two years would sure go far toward reigniting a rivalry.

Smell the Glove

It would add a little spark, no doubt, but when you talk about organizations that perpetuate “buying in” and team and definitely players agreeing to “structured” contracts Detroit practically wrote the book on how it’s done. I don’t see how ROR fits in any better there than he would with Avs.

DNVR

On a positive note, St. Louis got slightly worse this past week!

OCMS

While doubtful we’ll ever find out, it would be great to learn what deal each side is proposing.

Chris DeMott

I’m just gonna throw out a guess here, because the rumor is that they never got past the starting points. The Avs opened with something around the Landeskog deal, 5 -7 years at $5.5 (raising his average annual cap hit from$5M to $5.5M) and Newport came back with something around Kopitar, 3 to 5 years at $6.8M. The Avs, then realizing that they were about to get Stastnyed,(even though they didn’t know what “Stastnyed” was yet) protected themselves by going to arbitration because they weren’t about to qualify him at $6.5M and set his market starting point at that level. (The level that Jay Feaster of the Calgary Flames was confident that the Avs would never match in the first place…) R$R then gave Pat Morris the ok to play hardball again, thinking that some other NHL GM might be using Jay Feaster as a mentor and kick him another offer sheet. When it became clear that that wasn’t going to happen, coincidently on or near Awards night, he decided that he would “take it one year at a time” and they haven’t talked since.

OCMS

If ROR wants Kopitar money then he’s off his rocker.

avsfoodsleep

Ahhhh you stole my point hahah but that my friend is the best point made.
a side point, what kind of values and morals was this kid taught when 5.5mil per season at the age of 23 is not an acceptable salary?

Chris DeMott

Yes, that is the point — He made $6.5 last year and his agent thought it was insulting that the Avs filed for Arb where the LEAST that he can get is $5.525. Pat Morris and Joe Sakic both said that Ryan thought his “starting point” should be $6.5. That means ROR thinks he should get a raise from here in a multi-year deal. Kopitar makes $6.8 over the next 3 years, so YES that is my point. R$R is off his rocker! There is nothing that Joe Sakic can do to fix this other than trade him and he should do it soon while the Lady Bing is still nice and shiny.

Chris DeMott

Called it.

Jon E.

I disagree with the assessment that he couldn’t pull in a nice return before a trade deadline. Vanek did, but of course the Islanders looked like fools in the end. I agree that it’s a huge gamble and after the Stastny situation, that’s not going to happen again. I’m pretty much over the self righteousness of O’Reilly though – every player in the league is reading this, more importantly, other Avs players are reading this stuff and it’s bound to become a distraction and it can poison a locker room. Time to move on. Drafting Bleackley, a similar player to O’Reilly is no coincidence, by the way.

tigervixxxen

And isn’t it nice to draft someone who has passion for the organization? Someone who is going to be so proud and happy to wear the A? That’s the guys who I want to root for. I can’t wait for Bleackley to play for this team.

Chris DeMott

Congrats on the season tix! I was once of the school that ROR should have been given consideration for the “C” — that has changed. It’s time for Ryan to go.

Nippon Jeikobu

Given O’Reilly’s attitude in all this, I’m fine with a trade, but we’d have to get something really good in return.

rockiesghost

The reason the AVS have a chance to get a good return is there are enough dumb GM’s like Jay Feaster in the league. And, in open market he is anyone’s game so desperate GM’s would not take the chance.

avsfoodsleep

it does my heart good to see that most people here are ready to give this greedy kid the boot. if we are trying to build a culture in our organization, people like him dont deserve to be a part of it.
i like the message this arbitration sends….’hey you screwed the avs out of money last time, now if you dont want to sing with us, we will drive down your salary and trade you.’ that would be sweet karma for yoga boy (btw dater, could you have picked a douchier pic of ROR haha)
anyway, i wonder what we could get for him, i saw people mentioning kane, i mentioned this on another blog if we send ROR + Wilson get back Kane it wouldnt be so bad. i know kane has an attitude problem, but that could just mean he needs a change of scenery. besides if he doesnt work out, his salary would be more manageable than ROR’s.

rockiesghost

maybe Kane just don’t like Winnipeg, no one does…With a players coach like Roy and young teammates on a winning team he will be fine.

avsfoodsleep

Exactly, i cant speak on Winnipeg cuz ive never been there, but it seems like Kane would like to be on a franchise on the upswing (who wouldnt) and i dont think the jets are quite there yet.
We already traded one of our problems for another team’s problems, why not go 2 for 2 hehe

chantalrouleau

I wonder if O’Reilly’s value is all that good though. What would the Avalanche really get knowing O’Reilly is a tough dude to negotiate with when comes contract time?

avsfoodsleep

You are right, his trade vaule is tainted if thats the perception around the league, however i do believe that it appears that the Avs are the bad guys in all of this, which mean that some dummy GM will give up the farm thinking he can lock ROR down.

in another news o’Reilly says he is worth as much as Toews and Kane since he won a lady bing ttrophy

Jimbotronn

His agent has got him substantially more money at this point in his career than similar players have earned. I doubt O’Reilly has any issues at all with his agent.

Mike321

I love the opinions here that expect a player to pay for less just to be on the Av’s roster….I don’t know many professional athletes in any sport that would look to do this unless they have already had a nice career and made alot of money…then they are just looking for a winner to finish out with.
I think it is a big mistake for the Av’s to go this route…O’Reilly is a core member on this team and will make many other teams alot better. To say you can’t get paid more than Duchene is a ridiculous concept to use if Duchene is underpaid based on what the market has become.
The Av’s fed us the line for years that we will build from within and build and keep a core….except there is a caveat…if they want market rates.

FlapJack

I don’t think anyone is asking that he sign for less than he’s worth. I think the uproar is asking that he sign for an amount commensurate to his production. He wants to be paid like a top-line center because character and yoga. We think he should be paid like a very-good winger, or maybe even a top-tier checking center (Brandon Dubinsky’s deal…). Because he is one of those two things.

Even then, it’s not like there’s an exact dollar-value per position that all players adhere to. When Duchene signed, the rate for an elite, #1 center was between $5 and $9 million per year. Could he have squeezed the team for more money? Sure. Would someone have offered him an exorbitant amount; perhaps even $7+ million/year? Almost certainly, but for him, the desire to not cripple the cap while still getting a fair value was his priority (the phrase, “Market Value” is getting destroyed on this forum by ROR sympathizers. Just because SOMEONE is willing to OVERPAY for a player does not mean that the player holds that value inherently). Duchene wasn’t underpaid. He was paid an amount that many elite, top-line centers were earning at the time. Someone is not underpaid because he wasn’t made among the highest-paid players at his position. ROR is looking for that David Clarkson/Jeff Finger/Brooks Orpik contract that only desperate teams seem to pay every time it comes time for him to negotiate.

The reason Duchene and Landeskog and even Varlamov are being discussed in conjunction with the ROR saga is because all of them banked, earning a cap-hit comparable to some of the elite players at their position (Varly hedged his bet by signing earlier than he might have, and probably could have commanded more had he waited), but still leaving a cap structure in place to add pieces in the future. This means they have more priorities than just maximizing their money, which is the type of players we want signed (and the type of player that we all thought/hoped ROR was. Not saying he doesn’t want to win, but I’m saying that he’s not willing to sacrifice a cap number to get there).

Avs fans are upset because we can see that he is not worth that much, but he refuses to come down from his mountaintop. I’m not saying the team isn’t also at fault here, because they clearly are, but if there’s one goat, it’s ROR.

jpwheels

I’ve been mulling a comment on this post since Dater first put it up.
But your comment damn near sums up exactly what has been bouncing around in my head on this mess. Plus, you added other player’s pay/skill level/production info I didn’t have and have been too lazy to dig up.
The only part I would question in your comment is the last sentence.
Yes, both sides share blame in all of this.
But I’d have some trouble labeling O’Reilly a goat. He sure doesn’t look like a team-first player in all of this. Particularly since he could easily tell his agent (if it is his agent driving the price) to work out a deal that’s fair to both sides.
Maybe I just don’t want to believe he’s got that much disregard for the team & is only seeing dollar signs.

FlapJack

I’m with you on your last sentence, but I figure it like this: ROR has the ability to tell his agent what to do. When he signed a contract with Calgary instead of the Avs (whose offer was in line with market comparables), he showed that he has given his agent the go-ahead to just take whatever he could get.

He could say at any time, “This is where I want to be. Get as much as you can get, but get me signed by [x date].” Instead, it appears the directive is, “I believe I’m worth [x dollar amount] and dang it, they’re going to pay it.”

jpwheels

Agreed…but it sucks.

Chris DeMott

Very well said. Nicely done.

Pollardinio

Let’s talk after the 23rd. My guess is that Roykic will then begin to hammer out a long-term contract after whatever salary is awarded. If the negotiations do not go well, that will be the last time they try to deal with O’Reilly and Pat Morris. A trade will be immanent.

Todd Anderson

The Avs can get O’Reilly for a couple of seasons at a reasonable rate, and then dump
his contract for salary cap reasons. By that time MacKinnon’s contract will be coming up so they can lockdown Mackinnon long term.

Terry Frei graduated from Wheat Ridge High School in the Denver area and has degrees in history and journalism from the University of Colorado-Boulder. He worked for the Rocky Mountain News while attending CU and joined the Post staff after graduation. He has also worked at the Oregonian in Portland, Ore., and The Sporting News. His seventh book, March 1939: Before the Madness, was issued in February 2014.

Chambers covers college and professional hockey for The Denver Post. He has written for the Post since 1994, after dumping his first 9-to-5 office job a couple years out of college. He primarily follows the University of Denver hockey team and helps cover the Avalanche.