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Topic: Hello from San Diego, CA (Read 5367 times)

Hello All! I can't quite remember how I found this forum but I am new here and wanted to say hello! I am a philosophy graduate from UofI and hail from San Diego, CA (currently). I am an ex-born again Christian Apologist (20+ years) and love "the debate". Feel free to ask away if you have any other questions!

this generally speaking is a welcome "area".anyways.hi,I guess make your self comfortable if you are not already because I don't like the alternative.heheheyou have said what you are not, which kinda means fill in the blank as to what you are.hopefully you enjoyed viewing the theatrical sci-fi thriller Predator (1986)

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Fuck the Bible, you can't even eat in it.

First I told my imaginary friend about Jesus, then I told Jesus about my imaginary friend.

Hello All! I can't quite remember how I found this forum but I am new here and wanted to say hello! I am a philosophy graduate from UofI and hail from San Diego, CA (currently). I am an ex-born again Christian Apologist (20+ years) and love "the debate". Feel free to ask away if you have any other questions!

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So, are you an ex born-again-Christian-Apologist or just ex-born-again but still a Christian Apologist?

And, if the former, were you a Christian Apologist for 20 years, or have been an ex for 20 years?

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

So, are you an ex born-again-Christian-Apologist or just ex-born-again but still a Christian Apologist?

And, if the former, were you a Christian Apologist for 20 years, or have been an ex for 20 years?

Ah, good questions! And thank you for asking. I just realized this could be misconstrued in some fashion (as I was a bit vague). I am an EX (all of the above). That is to say, I was a "born-again" Christian for nearly 20 years and was a Christian apologist for about 15 of those years (give or take). I am now an agnostic atheist (if I may use those terms) and no longer hold any of those religious views. So, the pendulum has swung in the reverse!

In short (and in Dan Barker/John Loftus type fashion), I experienced a "gradual migration" out of religion and "faith" - via the avenue of, and toward, REASON! Basically, in challenging the views of others (as a Christian Apologist) I began to challenge my own views. And when I did, those views/beliefs began to fall apart. It was like watching a house of cards fall in slow motion (a very-slow 5 year long movie).

So, if one of you is debating with a theist on here and begins to lose hope, thinking, "You're so far gone. It's pointless." Think again! I WAS that guy you are debating with. I was just as irrational, just as much of an ass, just as hard headed, and just as "too far gone" (in most cases). It took 5+ years for me but things can change. Keep the logic hammer around, and keep pounding! Apologists are often secretly questioning/doubting but would never let you know the truth because it's too painful. They have made an emotional/lifestyle investment, and it is painful to give that up.

I have two questions:1.) Did/do you have a specialty in philosophy? Maybe a specific area you studied.2.) I'm assuming University of Illinois; is that correct?

Good questions. In my undergrad I emphasized in the Philosophy of Mind (although I like almost everything in philosophy), but now I'm very interested in Philosophy of Language.

To the second question, yes.

p.s. - Checkout The Partially Examined Life philosophy group. http://www.partiallyexaminedlife.com/. I joined them just recently. It's $5/month and you basically get to study from philosophy graduates on nearly any subject of philosophy. It's great.

In short (and in Dan Barker/John Loftus type fashion), I experienced a "gradual migration" out of religion and "faith" - via the avenue of, and toward, REASON! Basically, in challenging the views of others (as a Christian Apologist) I began to challenge my own views. And when I did, those views/beliefs began to fall apart. It was like watching a house of cards fall in slow motion (a very-slow 5 year long movie).

Dan Barker is an excellent resource as a believer-turned-rational. It must gall believers that an atheist makes money off of them. I'm sure they prefer to avoid that subject.

So, if one of you is debating with a theist on here and begins to lose hope, thinking, "You're so far gone. It's pointless." Think again! I WAS that guy you are debating with. I was just as irrational, just as much of an ass, just as hard headed, and just as "too far gone" (in most cases).

Isn't it mentally exhausting to keep up that kind of activity? Did you feed yourself some kind of elixir that all of it would make sense some day?

Apologists are often secretly questioning/doubting but would never let you know the truth because it's too painful. They have made an emotional/lifestyle investment, and it is painful to give that up.

Religion is the same as any social club -- it requires dues and a mental/social investment. People don't like to throw away their time and money, so they will find any way they can to justify their habits.

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Dan Barker is an excellent resource as a believer-turned-rational. It must gall believers that an atheist makes money off of them. I'm sure they prefer to avoid that subject.

So true. For me (back then), I absolutely avoided such authors. In fact, I once went to a public library (looking for something else) and found myself being "tempting by Satan" to checkout the "atheist" books. Well, I found my way to that bookshelf and starred at two books, but could not pick them up. They were Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist, and The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read. HA!

Isn't it mentally exhausting to keep up that kind of activity? Did you feed yourself some kind of elixir that all of it would make sense some day?

I'm not sure if you mean now, or back then, but I will speak to both. Back then (in the fundie days) my "elixir" was JESUS! I wanted to save you "lost" folk and prove to you that you are wrong! LOL. Now that I'm moving in the opposite direction I'm pretty motivated by 1) the fact that I enjoy debate, 2) I like to think I'm good at it! 3) It's fun to see theists squirm, as I used to (knowing some of the thought processes they are going through, and 4) I think it betters the world to engage false beliefs and force them to be critical/rational.

Given the 20+ centuries that this kind of crap has been happening, you can appreciate a reluctance to invest too much time. Perhaps you have leverage that we don't.

I may have a slight edge in that I understand the psychology of being a Christian Apologist (from the inside). I often want to get to the "heart" of the matter (i.e. - why they REALLY came to believe this nonsense - b/c it's not due to evidence or argument). It's due to emotion (particularly fear and in-group thinking, etc).

Religion is the same as any social club -- it requires dues and a mental/social investment. People don't like to throw away their time and money, so they will find any way they can to justify their habits.

Absolutely...as did I! Yet, I can't quite say exactly when I decided to get honest with myself and accept the fact that I "just didn't know". It just happened. I found myself being very curious about other ways of thinking, how outsiders (ex-Christians) thought of my beliefs, and whether or not my beliefs could really stand up to scrutiny. I thought, "Hey, if this is the absolute truth it will stand up to anything you can throw at it." And of course, it didn't.

Dan Barker is an excellent resource as a believer-turned-rational. It must gall believers that an atheist makes money off of them. I'm sure they prefer to avoid that subject.

So true. For me (back then), I absolutely avoided such authors. In fact, I once went to a public library (looking for something else) and found myself being "tempting by Satan" to checkout the "atheist" books. Well, I found my way to that bookshelf and starred at two books, but could not pick them up. They were Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist, and The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read. HA!

It's odd that I didn't do many searches for "atheist" when the internet first appeared. I'm not sure why. Once I started searching for atheist materials, Losing Faith in Faith was the first book I came across on Amazon. I ordered it, read it and finally found someone who made sense, and the fact that he was an ex-believer and preacher made it all the better.

Isn't it mentally exhausting to keep up that kind of activity? Did you feed yourself some kind of elixir that all of it would make sense some day?

I'm not sure if you mean now, or back then, but I will speak to both. Back then (in the fundie days) my "elixir" was JESUS! I wanted to save you "lost" folk and prove to you that you are wrong! LOL.

I was referring to your former self as a believer. I was never -- never -- able to make myself believe in all the stuff that Christians spewed. I tried, but it didn't make sense. I couldn't understand how these people believed in religion because it was like they got the punchline of a joke that flew over my head. For a long time, I kept trying to fit the square peg in the round hole. I knew it wouldn't work, and it didn't, so I stopped trying to believe and just focused on gaining some understanding. That didn't work either. Perhaps I am just incapable of whipping myself up into the kind of emotional frenzy necessary to turn off every rational sensor in my body.

Given the 20+ centuries that this kind of crap has been happening, you can appreciate a reluctance to invest too much time. Perhaps you have leverage that we don't.

I may have a slight edge in that I understand the psychology of being a Christian Apologist (from the inside). I often want to get to the "heart" of the matter (i.e. - why they REALLY came to believe this nonsense - b/c it's not due to evidence or argument). It's due to emotion (particularly fear and in-group thinking, etc).

You have to fight from the inside out, or at least you have the ability to do so. Most believers want to debate me on the basis of bible passages, and I tell them that the bible is irrelevant because the Christian god is impossible and here's why. In many cases, they aren't ready for that argument and I have no patience to debate bible passages. To do so implies that I accept the bible as a valid document and the premise of a god in the first place, but I don't accept either so I just ignore their attempts.

... I can't quite say exactly when I decided to get honest with myself and accept the fact that I "just didn't know". It just happened. I found myself being very curious about other ways of thinking, how outsiders (ex-Christians) thought of my beliefs, and whether or not my beliefs could really stand up to scrutiny. I thought, "Hey, if this is the absolute truth it will stand up to anything you can throw at it." And of course, it didn't.

It's the can't-quite-say-exactly-when that is critical to flipping a believer.

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And just for you information, your avatar is identical to another member's, which could get confusing sometime. We don't have any rules against such things that I know of, just thought I'd give you a heads up.