this is pushing 2 screens at 1920x1080 each, I play WoW on just one in Windowed mode but at 1920x1080 with everything turned all the way up/enabled.

It's fine in 5 or 10 mans, fps doesn't generally drop below 40 at worst, but I'm noticing in 25 mans (and of course the world bosses) that with lots of spells going on the FPS will drop all the way down to 16-20 or so.

I've done this with Task Manager and GPU-Z open on the 2nd screen so I can watch CPU and GPU usage, and the CPU never gets any core maxxed out but the GPU seems to get right up to 100% and stay there as long as there's a ton going on onscreen.

Now... I have always been told that WoW is not a gfx-intensive game and that the typical weak link in a PC build is the CPU for it, but wouldn't this clearly indicate that my GTX 580 is the culprit in this case?

I have been debating on picking up either a 680 or a Titan... money is never an object, if i can't afford it now I'll just save up and get it in a few months.

Any thoughts/tips/suggestions? Thanks in advance guys!

Post by rageahol

Go for a Titan if you can afford it. 680 might do the job.You could go for a 7970 as well, if you wanted.

I wouldn't suggest a dual GPU setup for WoW.

Post by kalmus

awesome, just what I was lookin for - thanks! yeah I finally got out of debt so it's not too bad to save up over a few months so I'll just shoot for the Titan.

Many thanks again friend!

Post by rageahol

Yeah np also be on the lookout for any news regarding a possible GTX 780 or whatever, I don't think I'll come any time soon but you never know, by the time you get the money.

Also, if you play games that aren't WoW, dual 7970s might be a good idea. They'd be noisier and consume more power than a titan though, and really at 1080p a titan should be able to do everything.

Post by kalmus

well my car payment was a little over 500 a month, so should be able to get the Titan in May if I don't go crazy and buy a bunch of junk. Far as games other than WoW, haven't had time to check any out for a good long time - latest ones I have are both Portal games and a few independent titles on Steam.

Can't really see a point in getting a higher-resolution display at this point either... the main one I play on is 27" and even at 1080p everything still looks crisp and detailed.

Post by Neffi

So my current build was done November 2011, a bit outdated but I was trying to see where the weak link is.

Outdated? That's a damn beast of a machine. I don't see one part on it that's "outdated".

It's fine in 5 or 10 mans, fps doesn't generally drop below 40 at worst, but I'm noticing in 25 mans (and of course the world bosses) that with lots of spells going on the FPS will drop all the way down to 16-20 or so.

That's really not making sense. A 580 shouldn't be dipping below 60 FPS in 10 mans at all. 16-20 FPS in 25 mans is totally unreasonable for that hardware. Something strange is definitely going on.

Any thoughts/tips/suggestions? Thanks in advance guys!

I'd really like to know what's going on here. Have you updated your drivers from NVidia? (I recently realized Windows Update will often not give you the latest drivers, and sometimes is very out of date.) Have you performed all Windows updates? Do you have any programs open that might be eating up GPU resources? (Maybe something's misbehaving?)

Give me a screenshot of the graphics options page, along with the "Advanced" section.

---

Edit: Just to rule some things out:

Disable power saving options. Go into the advanced, and disable PCI-E power saving as well. Go into GPU config and disable any power saving there.

Try running the 32-bit client and see if anything changes. It could be a fluke bug not found yet. (If not, stick with 64-bit.)

Try the various Graphics API options. There'll probably be 2 of them. If nothing helps, change it back to DirectX 11.

Turn down anti-aliasing and see if that's the culprit.

Edit: It's a fluke but try disabling addons as well. I don't believe it's a culprit, but others suggested it and I won't rule out a potential candidate.

Post by kalmus

@Neffi

Thank you sir, I'll post the screenshot when I get home from work tonight.

Driver-wise, I'm running whatever the latest from nVidia is as of ~2 weeks ago or so. I never use Windows Update's drivers because they're always out of date compared to the manufacturer. I do install normal Windows Updates whenever they are available though.

32-bit client doesn't seem to have a clear difference fps-wise, it just loads a little bit slower.

I know it's definitely on DX11, will try changing them tonight as well.

Anti-Aliasing is almost certainly turned all the way up, I'll see if that makes much difference adjusting it down.

Can try addons as well, I don't run very many but we may as well rule that out while we're at it.

Thanks again! I don't mind buying the GeForce Titan but if there's something else causing the low FPS in large groups may as well put that money somewhere else.

Post by Whaddafack

It's fine in 5 or 10 mans, fps doesn't generally drop below 40 at worst, but I'm noticing in 25 mans (and of course the world bosses) that with lots of spells going on the FPS will drop all the way down to 16-20 or so.

That's really not making sense. A 580 shouldn't be dipping below 60 FPS in 10 mans at all. 16-20 FPS in 25 mans is totally unreasonable for that hardware. Something strange is definitely going on.

I have a DirectCU ii 7970 and I don't stay at a constant 60 FPS in 10 mans. (1920x1080 @ Ultra)

Post by kalmus

Post by Neffi

Well, anti-aliasing is essentially asking the GPU to render at a much higher framerate, and then downscale that image accordingly. It always incurs a large performance hit, except in clever cases like FXAA.

If turning down AA turns out to fix the issue, you could always go with driver-level FXAA. Disable all AA in the game, then go into the NVidia control panel and enable FXAA there.

The only drawback to FXAA is that it's not anti-aliasing per se, but rather a filter that approximates anti-aliasing. It performs edge-detection to find the jagged lines on the image, then performs a limited localized blurring effect to mask them. Although the quality is fairly good, it doesn't produce hard edges as sharp as real anti-aliasing. The upside is, the performance hit is almost non-existent.

Try it out and see if you even notice a difference in quality. Most people really don't.

---

Edit: Other things that have the largest impact on performance are shadows; SSAO; sunshafts; and particle density. Although things like projected textures claim to incur a large performance hit, they really don't (meanwhile they're pretty mandatory to be able to see AoE effects on the ground). Between multi-sampling and those effects, you can probably push yourself right back up to 60 FPS without toning anything else down.

Edit: If you can set texture resolution to Ultra, do so. That's only impacted by the amount of GPU RAM available. If you have a high-end card, you can definitely handle the best textures. Texture filtering is what's limited by the speed of the GPU.

Post by kalmus

I'll try that FXAA change and see if it still looks crisp enough, thanks!

Texture resolution options are only: Low, Fair, Good, and High

Post by rageahol

Also is there any difference in framerates when you have vsync on? And also try playing in fullscreen (not windowed (fullscreen)).

Post by Neffi

If you turn vsync on, enable tripple buffering. I don't know the details of how WoW's engine implements it, but assuming it's not a bad implementation, you always want triple/multiple buffering. See the Wikipedia page for why.

If you choose not to enable vsync, then you can always achieve a framerate cap via the "max framerate" option, which is a simple limiter, not actual synchronization -- so it won't target 30 when your FPS dips below 60, and 15 when your FPS dips below 30, and so on.

The main advantages are capping the GPU usage so that, when the GPU isn't being stressed 100%, it's not wasting effort. In other words, it's not rendering frames that will simply be thrown out anyway -- since your monitor cannot display more than 60 FPS (rendering at 100 FPS means 40 wasted frames per second, therefore higher heat and power envelope).

Vsync can also prevent screen tearing.

Edit: OP, have you overclocked your GPU? Considering you're pushing 5 GHz on your CPU, you're probably running with a good airflow setup. There's no reason not to OC the GPU. It's generally much safer than CPU overclocking, and you get higher returns out of it.

Post by kalmus

@rageahol - I haven't had vsync on in years so I'm not sure. I'll try that with triple buffering tonight

Can't do normal fullscreen because I have 2 monitors in use and it screws up the 2nd display terribly to do that.

@Neffi - I have not overclocked the GPU yet, but yes I believe this case has very good airflow. To be honest I didn't realize that my GPU was the framerate bottleneck until very recently and thus never had a need to OC it. I'll give that a whirl this weekend when I have more time to mess around with the settings.

Thank you both and I'll report back soon!

Post by makani92

My setup is i7 3770 and im using a Gtx 670 OC edition.

Im standing in Dalaran with maybe 100 peoples around me with ultra settings and 82 fps.

Explain to me why on earth you should waste your money on the titan?

Post by rageahol

Explain to me why on earth you should waste your money on the titan?

Because he will earn it, and deserves to spend it in any way he sees fit.

Also you did not mention your game resolution, neither did you mention the number of monitors that you use, so your 82 FPS doesn't count. Furthermore, there is a massive difference between standing around in Dalaran doing nothing and fighting a world boss with tens of other people, all casting spells and the like.

Post by makani92

Im using the same resolution.

i have never dropped below 60 on anything in this game, fact!

Btw processor is more usefull then gpu in MMORPG games.

Post by rageahol

I'm using the same resolution.

I have never dropped below 60 on anything in this game, fact!

BTW processor is more useful than GPU in MMORPG games.

Can I get a screenshot of your settings? Also note that OP is running two monitors.

Post by falciferogue

I'm only running one monitor. OP says he runs WoW on one screen only in windowed mode, does it still matter that there are two screens?

FPS averages ~100 out of combat. Might drop down to around 50 in 25-mans but generally it's somewhere between the two. Raids reset today, so I'll be able to check properly when I get home tonight. (Edit: ran a couple of raids in LFR tonight and fps was never below mid-40s)

If you can afford a Titan, go for it, just because it will last you a while (although, if you consider your current set-up to be outdated, then maybe you'll think otherwise). If your FPS is dropping below 20, it would suggest to me that something other than the hardware is the problem. Unless you have a faulty card or something.

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