Marc Azoulay is a psychotherapist in private practice in Boulder, CO and the current President of the Four Corners Group Psychotherapy Society. He blends his backgrounds in Neuroscience and Eastern Religion to help clients that have a harmful relationship to their inherent aggression. He helps people uncover and destroy the unconscious barriers that cripple them by using a blend of the Modern Psychoanalytic and Contemplative Psychotherapy.

In this episode of Marketing the Invisible, Marc shares how he helps people uncover and destroy the unconscious barriers that cripple them by using a blend of like modern psychoanalytic and contemplated psychotherapy.

Check out these episode highlights:

00:50 – Marc’s professional background as a psychotherapist

02:16 – His ideal clients: people that are struggling with aggression, willpower, with a drive, connection,and with making the change that they want in their lives.

03:59 – Can you define the problem you solve and the symptoms. If someone has this aggression problem what are the symptoms?

05:09 – common mistakes people make is that they don’t invite the aggression in enough. A lot of therapists try to get people to calm down and take a deep breath and you know self soothe then just you know be relaxed.

06:10 – Marc’s Valuable Free Action (VFA): Be mindful. Tap into your present moment and be honest with yourself. Many people that struggle with aggression are the most unconscious. And they don’t let themselves be angry.

08:51 – You should have asked me about my own story with aggression. I realize that that shy didn’t really work. And something that I want to share with people is that what motivated me out of that was actually like anger. In something that is not talked about a lot. I was very frustrated, fed up, and that got me out of my pain. And something that is again kind of pushed down by my industry saying that you know being motivated by things like anger or sadness is bad. You want to drive by things like gratitude or inspiration or you know or joy. But sometimes it’s not that clean.

Transcript (Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

Tom Poland: Hello everyone. A very warm welcome with another edition of Marketing the Invisible joined today by Mark Azoulay all the way from where you’re hanging out. Marc?

Marc Azoulay: I’m from Boulder Colorado.

Tom Poland: Boulder Colorado beautiful. And you’ve got some nice weather there at the moment I hear. Well away from the horrible bushfires in California. So, folks, this is going to be fascinating because we are not talking all about marketing. And when I tell you what Marc does for a living. You’re thinking “Oh that’s not marketing.” But in many respects, it’s actually at the root of marketing. It’s kind of like the root cause of effective marketing because Marc’s actually a psychotherapist and he’s got a private practice in Boulder, Colorado. He’s the current President of the Four Corners Group psychotherapy society. He blends backgrounds. This is what I find fascinating in neuroscience and eastern philosophy or religion to help clients that have a harmful relationship to their inherent aggression. What does that mean Marc?.

Marc Azoulay: Well so from psychoanalytic labs aggression is kind we talking about with marketing it’s getting what you want. So the idea is that humans are the most aggressive of all the animals. That’s what sets us apart. OK. So we can bend our environment to our will.

Tom Poland: So yeah. So that’s really interesting a harmful relationship to their inherent aggression. Because we think of inherent and go up as bad but not necessarily more on that in a moment. So he helps people uncover and destroy the unconscious barriers that cripple them by using a blend of like modern psychoanalytic and contemplated psychotherapy. I can’t wait. So the title. Which I think is brilliant and I didn’t come up that, of course, Marc came up with it is “How to avoid the nice guy slash gal syndrome and wake the sleeping dragon.” You can tell how to do that and just seven minutes. Marc, our time starts now. Chris number one who’s your ideal client.

Marc Azoulay: Yeah. Well thanks for having me. Before I dive into it. Yeah. So my ideal client is people that are struggling with aggression with willpower with the drive with connection with making the change that they want in their lives. So typically especially in places like Boulder that are very progressive, very privileged areas. There are people that are too nice, right? People that bend over backward say yes to everything you know are just always accommodating. What happens is that those people underneath that are the pure rage. A lot of resentment, a lot of pain. a lot of hurts. And those people, unfortunately, end up acting out. The people end up becoming the people that are doing sexual assault that is doing you know domestic violence, that snapping at some point. So I help people to get in touch with their aggression so that it doesn’t come to that point.

Tom Poland: So going off script here. But can the aggression be a positive thing if it’s managed right?

Marc Azoulay: Oh absolutely yeah. I mean are we talking about before is that there is this thing that’s happening in a culture where all aggression is bad and I personally don’t agree with that.

Marc Azoulay: I think aggression is again what put humans where we are. And it’s what we have to offer. This idea of having the willpower of it being technologists, of being curious and pursuing discovery. Of really trying to make the world a better place. That’s something that is very inherent to the human experience. Opposite of aggression is its creativity it’s its art its beauty its science right.

Tom Poland: And the reason I say this is that as the source of the foundation of all marketing is that if we don’t have the psychology well-balanced if you like that it has positive intent or we don’t have enough aggression. Then it can get very far. So can decrease number two just over five minutes left. Well, let’s just combine two and three. Can you define the problem you solve and the symptoms? If someone has this problem. Oh, that’s me what sort of symptoms?

Marc Azoulay: Yeah so the symptoms is actually the person is angry all the time. They’re going to feel disgruntled. They’re going to feel bitter. They’re going to feel like a victim. They’re going to feel like the whole world is against them. But on the outside, they’re gonna be very very nice and very pleasant and very polite. But inside they’re going to feel very stifled you know and like unable to really express themselves. They might feel lonely. They might feel that they sense everything that they say. There’s just kind of this dual life thing happening, right? A person has a lot of aggression like gossip a lot for example.

Tom Poland: Okay. So. So there’s a few there are a few little boxes that have just checked off in my mind. So what are the common mistakes people make so that they’re aware that they’ve got this anger deep down they’re trying to be nice to everyone all the time so that they’re sort of woken up to what’s happening here? And they’re probably going to try some stuff like maybe drinking too much red wine. So what are some of the common mistakes that people make when trying to solve the problem? Four minutes left and that is a question four.

Marc Azoulay: Yeah. So common mistakes people make is that they don’t invite the aggression in enough, right? A lot of therapists try to get people to calm down and take a deep breath and you know self soothe then just you know be relaxed. And for people that are actually too nice, that’s the wrong intervention. People need to actually find a way to release that aggression and practice being in touch with it. So that it doesn’t come to rule their lives later. So what I would say to people struggling with that problem is finding safe outlets to practice aggression whether it be you know with some trusted friends or in martial arts or out in the wilderness. Places that actually practice being in that aggressive drive.

Tom Poland: In New Zealand we just play rugby.

Marc Azoulay: Yeah rugby. Fantastic.

Tom Poland: So. Question number 5, three minutes left we’re talking about solutions. So this question is at the right time. What’s one valuable free action that an audience member could implement. That’s going to help them to handle this problem?

Marc Azoulay: Yeah, well so the most valuable free action I can give is actually mindfulness. So you talked about that I bring contemplative psychotherapy before it’s essentially Buddhist thought. So this idea of tapping into your present moment and being honest with yourself. So many people struggle with aggression. It’s almost unconscious they don’t let themselves be angry right. They don’t they don’t even notice those little moments of like you know or there’s no answer like I really want that. And they end up feeling depressed because they’re shutting down desire shutting down passions among the competition. So a totally free action is really just paying attention to one’s self. And noticing those moments when that aggression that desire boils up in yourself and you know being honest with yourself and honoring those.

Tom Poland: This is an interview that could go on for hours. It’s like how deep does the rabbit hole go. So yeah I’m just sitting here thinking boy we’ve just described 90 percent of the planet and putting you know you’re putting your finger on probably ninety-nine point nine percent of the acts of violence. And you know all sorts of dysfunctional behavior. So. Question number six one minute 45 lift what’s one valuable free resource that could give people that’s going to help them a little further with a problem that may not solve the whole problem but it’s helping dive a bit deeper in it.

Marc Azoulay: Yeah. So a good resource can help. I work mainly with young men. And would a lot of young man working with a client earlier today and he was talking in a session. He was saying you know I don’t speak with passion. When I talk. Everything I say is monotone and everything is flat. And so I’m just communicating information. So a great resource I would encourage is for you know men and women across the board is actually to go on YouTube and to find speakers that speak with emotion that speak with that aggression that would that drive that is really evocative in speaking. And I’m not going to say one in general but I really find it helpful to find mentors that are able to embody an emotional state.

Tom Poland:Would you just point people in one direction perhaps be able to drop a couple of names that people could google or youtube? And go there. That’s a good example.

Marc Azoulay: So some are ones that I like. I like Gary Vaynerchuk. I think really embodies aggression in terms of marketing very well. Grant Cardon is another one that embodies aggression. Tim Ferriss is fantastic. He talks about that type of stuff. Tony Robbins to a lesser extent he’s more about motivation but people that speak with power right with with with the gravitas. Thank you.

Tom Poland:All right. Question number seven wants to one question I should have asked you but didn’t. Twenty seconds left.

Marc Azoulay: Oh I think the one question that you should have asked me is about my own story with aggression.

Tom Poland: Well let’s let’s let’s give you 50 seconds for that.

Marc Azoulay: OK. I used to be very shy and then I wasn’t.

Tom Poland: Short story.

Marc Azoulay: I mean I realize that that shy didn’t really work. And something that I want to share with people is that what motivated me out of that was actually like anger. In something that is not talked about a lot. I was very frustrated, fed up, and that got me out of my pain. And something that is again kind of pushed down by my industry saying that you know being motivated by things like anger or sadness is bad. You want to drive by things like gratitude or inspiration or you know or joy. But sometimes it’s not that clean. So for the listeners out there that are feeling bad and uses bad emotions, you can actually use them to make a change in your life instead of having them control you.

Tom Poland: And we have this very dualistic view of the world that these emotions are good, these emotions are bad. And that sounds like that’s the sort of thinking that can get us all tripped up.

Marc Azoulay: Exactly. And that’s the sort of thing that leads to atrocities and things around the world because bad emotions when suppressed come back stronger.

Tom Poland: Marc Azoulay thank you so much for your time. Thank you.

Tom Poland: Thanks for checking out our Marketing the Invisible podcast if you like what we’re doing here. Please head over to iTunes to subscribe, rate us and leave us a review. It’s very much appreciated. And if you want to generate five fresh leads in just five hours then check out www.FiveHourChallenge.com.

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MEET YOUR HOST

Tom Poland is the creator of The Five Hour Lead Generation Challenge found at www.FiveHourChallenge.com and the proprietary Leadsology® Model.

He works with professionals to embed lead generation systems into their businesses so they enjoy a weekly flow of new client inquiries.

Tom started his first advisory business at age 24 and has gone on to start and sell four others, taking two of them international. In that time, he’s managed teams of over 100 people and annual revenue of more than $20 million.

He is a multiple best-selling author and also shared international speaking platforms with the likes of Michael Gerber of E-Myth fame, Richard Koch from The 80–20 Principle, Marshall Goldsmith and many others.

Tom is voluntarily married and lives on the sand at Castaways Beach on the fabulous Sunshine Coast of Queensland, Australia.