05-06 DRAFTS GRADES/OFFSEASON VIEW/DRAFT DAY PREVIEW

Packers GM Ted Thompson has hit more than he missed in the 2005 and 2006 drafts, especially last year, when he landed four legit starters in the first three rounds. If you’re going to build your team through the draft — making free agency no more than a supplementary way to improve the roster — then you had better be a pretty darned good evaluator of college talent. So, how has Ted Thompson fared during his first two drafts? Good enough that you’d have to say Thompson would be wise to stay course. Certainly, it’s a bit early to call some of the draft picks hits or misses. It’s impossible to say, for instance, whether drafting Aaron Rodgers was wise or foolish since he hasn’t had a chance. Still, it’s interesting to look back at Thompson’s first two drafts.

Summary: Of the five players selected in the first four rounds, four remain with the team. Only Murphy, who suffered a neck injury during his rookie season that led to fears about a long-term, catastrophic injury and, therefore, his release, is no longer on the team. Of those five, though, only Collins could be considered at least an average starter today with major upside for the future. The Packers, though, remain high on Rodgers. Poppinga had a decent year as a first-year starter last season, getting better as the year went on. Underwood was challenging Marquand Manuel for a starting job at safety before a knee injury ruined his season before it began. Of the final six picks, only Coston, Montgomery and Whitticker remain on the roster, and it wouldn’t be surprising if Montgomery is the only one to get out of this summer’s training camp. In a nutshell, this class could earn a B grade if most of the “ifs” work out in the Packers’ favor and Montgomery turns into at least a productive situational player. If not, Thompson could be in danger of landing exactly zero above-average NFL starters out of an 11-player class.

Summary: What a draft, starting with the hard-nosed Hawk. Of the first five picks, four already are at least decent starters. This class would have to get an A-plus if Colledge and Spitz become above-average starting guards and Jennings continues to grow. From what we saw last season, that seems more likely than not. Drafting Cory Rodgers is a black mark — from the first day in camp, even a casual observer could see he couldn’t play — and it remains to be seen whether Blackmon was just snake-bit last year or whether he’s injury prone and, therefore, unreliable. Moll was a steal in the fifth round, even if he never becomes a full-time starter. Jolly and Culver seem to have futures as at least deep backups, and that’s all you can ask for out of sixth-round picks. Finding three bona fide players that late in the draft is what separates an astute evaluator like Thompson from the draftniks and mediocre general managers.

Though PackerReport.com's Harry Sydney has been critical of Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy for their lack of aggressiveness in free agency this off-season, he explains why he has all the respect in the world for the two as well.

PackerReport.com's Harry Sydney firmly believes that the Green Bay Packers should have been a lot more active during the early part of free agency. Sydney explains why this lack of aggressiveness in pursuing players who can contribute will hurt the Packers in the long run.

Thompson has to try something brash at some point Packerinsider.com by Cristl [gone]

Before Brett Favre ever played a down with the Green Bay Packers, the mere act of trading for him marked a watershed moment in the franchise's history. It was a bold and daring act unlike anything the Packers had done for 20 years or more. By trading a first-round draft pick for a loose-canon quarterback who had been chosen in the second round the year before and done nothing to increase his value, former general manager Ron Wolf not only staked his future on the deal, but jolted the Packers out of a perpetual state of organizational inertia. Under Tom Braatz, who ran the team's draft for five years before Wolf, there was some progress made on the personnel front.
Braatz missed big on Tony Mandarich, but also drafted Sterling Sharpe in the first round, LeRoy Butler in the second and Don Majkowski in the 10th, just to name a few. In Braatz's last draft, he snagged Tony Bennett, Butler, Jackie Harris and Bryce Paup, an impressive catch all in one year. Braatz had played in the NFL for four years and had spent more than 20 years working in Atlanta's personnel department. He had an eye for talent and also had drafted well for the Falcons, hitting the jackpot on the likes of quarterback Steve Bartkowski, tight end Junior Miller, offensive linemen Bill Fralic and Mike Kenn, and running backs Gerald Riggs and William Andrews, among others.
A perennial also-ran for the first 12 years of their existence, the Falcons made the playoffs three times in a five-year period from 1978-'82 thanks in large part to players that Braatz targeted in the draft. In 1980, the Falcons were young, talented and the No. 1 seed in the NFC playoffs, only to get bumped by Dallas, 30-27, in the divisional playoffs. And, thereafter, the Falcons just never got over the hump. A native of Wisconsin, Braatz was conservative by nature and it was reflected in how he ran a franchise. Both in Atlanta and Green Bay, he adhered to a by-the-book, build-through-the-draft philosophy.
In theory, it's the only philosophy that has ever been truly successful in the NFL since the draft came into being in 1936. That said, it's still necessary to deviate from the norm and take some chances on occasion. In other words, a team just can't build through the draft alone. Former Dallas coach Jimmy Johnson once compared the playoffs to poker. "You can not play with scared money," he said. "You play with scared money, you lose." The same applies to stocking a roster. Sometimes a general manager just has to try something brash. And if it means flying in the face of his own blueprint, so be it. Wolf did it at least twice. One was the Favre trade; the other was the Keith Jackson trade. Wolf relinquished a second-round draft pick for Jackson, who said he would rather retire than play in Green Bay and sat out three months before he finally reported. Favre led the Packers to 13 straight non-losing seasons and their first Super Bowl victory in 29 years. And the Packers won Super Bowl XXXI in Jackson's only full season with the team, which might have been more than just a coincidence.
Now might not be the time. Randy Moss might not be the player. And free agency might never be the solution. But at some point in the not too distant future, Thompson might have to target a particular player or two and go for broke. He's entering his third season as general manager and has done a good job of improving the infrastructure of his roster. But that alone won't be enough to win a Super Bowl. Most Super Bowl champions started their uphill climb after years of losing or after hitting rock bottom.
The fortunes of the reigning champion Indianapolis Colts turned around after back-to-back 3-13 seasons in 1997 and '98, the first of which yielded Peyton Manning in the draft. The Dallas Cowboys won three Super Bowls in the 1990s after finishing 3-13 in 1988 and 1-15 in 1999, and drafting Troy Aikman and Emmitt Smith. It was a 4-12 finish by the New York Giants in 1980 that allowed them to draft Lawrence Taylor and a 3-12-1 finish three years later that led to the selection of fellow linebacker Carl Banks, two moves that helped propel them to Super Bowl victories in 1986 and 1990.
Before winning three Super Bowls in the 1980s, the San Francisco 49ers finished 2-14 in both 1978 and '79. They wasted their No. 1 picks both years, but also uncovered Joe Montana and five solid starters in the two drafts that followed those dismal seasons. The Pittsburgh Steelers finished 1-13 in 1969 and took quarterback Terry Bradshaw No. 1 in the following draft. Bradshaw led them to four Super Bowl titles over the next decade.
The 2002 Super Bowl champion Tampa Bay Buccaneers were just six years removed from the last of a string of 14 consecutive losing seasons. The 2000 Baltimore Ravens were a fifth-year expansion team that had never before had a winning season. The 1999 St. Louis Rams won the Super Bowl after nine straight losing years, including six in which they won five or fewer games.
The 1996 Packers started their climb four years earlier following a 24-year drought during which they had only five winning seasons. The 1966 and '67 Packers, winners of the first two Super Bowls, still had five key starters, including three Hall of Famers, who were drafted during another of the franchise's dreadful droughts in the 1950s.
There have been a handful of Super Bowl winners that never sank to the depths of the teams mentioned above, but even most of those benefited from a down year and a high draft pick. The 2005 Steelers finished 6-10 two years earlier and drafted quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. The New England Patriots, winners of three Super Bowls since 2001, finished 5-11 in 2000 and selected Richard Seymour, their best defensive player during that span, with the sixth pick.
On the flip side, teams that don't sink to the cellar or experience years of losing often get stuck in ruts where they become perpetually mediocre. The Philadelphia Eagles have finished with a winning record in 17 of the last 29 seasons, but haven't won a Super Bowl. True, they fell to 3-13 in 1998 and benefited from drafting Donovan McNabb. But that was one of only two times in the last 11 years that they've had a top 10 draft pick.
The New York Jets last won a Super Bowl following the 1968 season. In the 27 years that the NFL has played a 16-game schedule, dating to 1978 minus two strike-shortened years, the Jets have won between six and 10 games 19 times. The Kansas City Chiefs last won a Super Bowl following the 1969 season. They've won between six and 10 games 20 times in the years of a 16-game schedule.
Both the Jets and Chiefs have had some talented players and also their share of high draft picks. But it's probably instructive that each team has drafted a quarterback in the top 10 only once in more than 35 years. The Chiefs took Todd Blackledge seventh in 1983; the Jets chose Richard Todd sixth in 1976. Blackledge was a bust; Todd had two good years out of six as a starter.
Should the Packers continue to hover between six and 10 wins and not get another crack or two at the top one to maybe five draft picks, Thompson, in all likelihood, is either going to have to be extremely lucky or gamble on some blockbuster move. Should he choose to do so, it won't guarantee success. The Eagles learned that in 2004 when they traded for the league's biggest pain in the you-know-what, Terrell Owens, and spent lavishly to sign free agent Jevon Kearse, although they did come a step closer to winning the Super Bowl. And let's face it, Wolf was daring but also lucky when he traded for Favre. How many times in league history has a young quarterback with that kind of raw talent ever been available? Thompson doesn't figure to be so lucky. But it also doesn't figure that he can play it safe and only by-the-book year after year and expect to succeed.

And let's face it, Wolf was daring but also lucky when he traded for Favre. How many times in league history has a young quarterback with that kind of raw talent ever been available? Thompson doesn't figure to be so lucky. But it also doesn't figure that he can play it safe and only by-the-book year after year and expect to succeed.

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What was Charles Woodson? He wasn't a sure thing. He hadn't finished a season in what, five? six years? He doned the hat of 'injury prone' and thought to be on the downward spiral of his career. His numbers weren't impressive at all and we through a LOT of money at him. That wasn't a risk?

He had one season in the last five where he had 3 int's.

Face it, you have to give the damn team and staff a freaking chance before you start comparing them to those who proved their worth. I really REALLY feel sorry for whoever the unlucky soul is that has to come in for Favre. There is no way in hell fans and writers will give the kid a chance.

Oh Brett would have made that, this guy sucks, blah blah and people will forget how bad Brett was early in his career.

Summary: Of the five players selected in the first four rounds, four remain with the team. Only Murphy, who suffered a neck injury during his rookie season that led to fears about a long-term, catastrophic injury and, therefore, his release, is no longer on the team. Of those five, though, only Collins could be considered at least an average starter today with major upside for the future. The Packers, though, remain high on Rodgers. Poppinga had a decent year as a first-year starter last season, getting better as the year went on. Underwood was challenging Marquand Manuel for a starting job at safety before a knee injury ruined his season before it began. Of the final six picks, only Coston, Montgomery and Whitticker remain on the roster, and it wouldn’t be surprising if Montgomery is the only one to get out of this summer’s training camp. In a nutshell, this class could earn a B grade if most of the “ifs” work out in the Packers’ favor and Montgomery turns into at least a productive situational player. If not, Thompson could be in danger of landing exactly zero above-average NFL starters out of an 11-player class.

Summary: What a draft, starting with the hard-nosed Hawk. Of the first five picks, four already are at least decent starters. This class would have to get an A-plus if Colledge and Spitz become above-average starting guards and Jennings continues to grow. From what we saw last season, that seems more likely than not. Drafting Cory Rodgers is a black mark — from the first day in camp, even a casual observer could see he couldn’t play — and it remains to be seen whether Blackmon was just snake-bit last year or whether he’s injury prone and, therefore, unreliable. Moll was a steal in the fifth round, even if he never becomes a full-time starter. Jolly and Culver seem to have futures as at least deep backups, and that’s all you can ask for out of sixth-round picks. Finding three bona fide players that late in the draft is what separates an astute evaluator like Thompson from the draftniks and mediocre general managers.

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2006's draft could go down as one that just lays the foundation for this franchise for years to come...AJ Hawk is a franchise player on defense, Colledge, Spitz are maturing quickly, and we have Moll picking up the system waiting in the wings should somehting happen to Tauscher/Clifton...Greg Jennings produced as a rookie...at a position that was fairly lean for us, usually it takes wide outs 2-3 years to start producting...Will Blackmon, Abdul Hodge, Ingle Martin are still variables that we wont know for years, but even if they dont pan out, solid draft

2005's draft looks bad on paper, but I'll make a case for it...for one, we have two defensive starters from it, Poppinga and Collins, so I dont know why this article has a coronary about this draft

this draft will be remembered for Aaron Rodgers (eyeroll)...but at the same time...NFL Draft 2005...look at who else was around to select...NOBODY...look at the next dozen or so picks after Aaron Rodgers...we could've ended up with Marlin Jackson, Heath Miller, but nobody that would've changed the course of time for our franchise...and to pass up marginal NFL talent for a QB who weeks before the draft was the #1 player...it was the right pick...don't hit me with this hindsight 20/20 bullshit, we were gonna go 4-12 in 2005 regardless of who we picked there, THERE WAS NOBODY

two 2nd round picks...we pretty much traded Mike McKenzie for Nick Collins which I'd take...I'm not docking points for T-Murph, I'm confident he would've had a legit career if not for the injury...if you look at the next dozen or so players picked after Murphy, there was Frank Gore (at the time we had Ahman, Davenport, etc), and Vincent Jackson (a nobody who had a Collins-like meteoric rise up the charts last minute, and Vernand Morency who we ended up with anyway

Same thing for our 2nd day picks...look around those rounds with the link i posted and find some players worth a damn...Thompson, and most NFL GM's, realized that there wasnt much talent out there and went with project players like Coston, Kurt Campbell, etc. etc...its less than stellar but if you compare it against what other teams did, Brady Poppinga and Marviel Underwood doesnt look half bad

2005's draft gets a C- on paper but a solid B if you take into account the talent pool...

This is where I have a disagreement with alot of folks. I don't look at that draft and think its anything more than run of the mill and extremely average.

I get a kick out of how because we have rookies and young guys starting that they were somehow solid picks. I doubt Colledge, Spitz, Poppinga, Underwood and possibly even Jennings would be starting on 75% of other teams in the NFL. I am not knocking them but when you are dead in FA and will not sign any FA it's pretty much a given that young guys will be starting.

It's like not paying Green and drafting Lynch/Irons/Bush and stating how great Ted is because he drafted a starter. He's only a starter because there's noone else to do it.

Please tell me WHO Colledge, Spitz, Poppinga, etc beat out last year? They start by default. Ted's idea of competition is some street FA that will play for 20 bucks a week and the chance to meet Brett Favre.

Alot of these guys probably shouldn't be starting. The O-Line struggled early last year. I'm not sure they gelled all that much by the end as much as McCarthy and crew did a good job at covering up the black eye by leaving 7-8 guys into block and by having Brett get rid of it quick.Poppinga was terrible in Pass coverage and Collins regressed.

These guys very well could become solid NFL players but let's not jump the gun. As with most young guys they are going to struggle but they have potential, as do the other 200-300 other guys that get drafted or brought into the NFL every year. Are our guys better because they are starting or does TT put us in the situation where we have to start rookies every year.

I don't think Ted is a terrible drafter but I don't think he's superior either. The problem I have is that he puts us in the situation of having to rely so heavily on raw, unproven rookies

This is where I have a disagreement with alot of folks. I don't look at that draft and think its anything more than run of the mill and extremely average.

I get a kick out of how because we have rookies and young guys starting that they were somehow solid picks. I doubt Colledge, Spitz, Poppinga, Underwood and possibly even Jennings would be starting on 75% of other teams in the NFL. I am not knocking them but when you are dead in FA and will not sign any FA it's pretty much a given that young guys will be starting.

It's like not paying Green and drafting Lynch/Irons/Bush and stating how great Ted is because he drafted a starter. He's only a starter because there's noone else to do it.

Please tell me WHO Colledge, Spitz, Poppinga, etc beat out last year? They start by default. Ted's idea of competition is some street FA that will play for 20 bucks a week and the chance to meet Brett Favre.

Alot of these guys probably shouldn't be starting. The O-Line struggled early last year. I'm not sure they gelled all that much by the end as much as McCarthy and crew did a good job at covering up the black eye by leaving 7-8 guys into block and by having Brett get rid of it quick.Poppinga was terrible in Pass coverage and Collins regressed.

These guys very well could become solid NFL players but let's not jump the gun. As with most young guys they are going to struggle but they have potential, as do the other 200-300 other guys that get drafted or brought into the NFL every year. Are our guys better because they are starting or does TT put us in the situation where we have to start rookies every year.

I don't think Ted is a terrible drafter but I don't think he's superior either. The problem I have is that he puts us in the situation of having to rely so heavily on raw, unproven rookies

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You draft needs. So the players you draft tend to fill holes you have in your lineup. I am sure there are CB's and LB's drafted in recent years that would not start on the Packers. Besides, it wasn't like the O-line was horrendous. They managed, what, the third or fourth lowest sack total? I can't remember the exact numbers. Yes they had help, but regardless, they came together by the end of the season. Colledge made the all-Rookie team didn't he. Man, I should start looking this stuff up.

But that is how it is with every team, you draft what you need because there is a lack of depth, and just because they aren't outstanding doesn't mean they aren't doing their part. Sometimes, however, you draft an Aaron Rodgers who sits on our bench but perhaps would start somewhere else.

This is where I have a disagreement with alot of folks. I don't look at that draft and think its anything more than run of the mill and extremely average.

I get a kick out of how because we have rookies and young guys starting that they were somehow solid picks. I doubt Colledge, Spitz, Poppinga, Underwood and possibly even Jennings would be starting on 75% of other teams in the NFL. I am not knocking them but when you are dead in FA and will not sign any FA it's pretty much a given that young guys will be starting.

It's like not paying Green and drafting Lynch/Irons/Bush and stating how great Ted is because he drafted a starter. He's only a starter because there's noone else to do it.

Please tell me WHO Colledge, Spitz, Poppinga, etc beat out last year? They start by default. Ted's idea of competition is some street FA that will play for 20 bucks a week and the chance to meet Brett Favre.

Alot of these guys probably shouldn't be starting. The O-Line struggled early last year. I'm not sure they gelled all that much by the end as much as McCarthy and crew did a good job at covering up the black eye by leaving 7-8 guys into block and by having Brett get rid of it quick.Poppinga was terrible in Pass coverage and Collins regressed.

These guys very well could become solid NFL players but let's not jump the gun. As with most young guys they are going to struggle but they have potential, as do the other 200-300 other guys that get drafted or brought into the NFL every year. Are our guys better because they are starting or does TT put us in the situation where we have to start rookies every year.

I don't think Ted is a terrible drafter but I don't think he's superior either. The problem I have is that he puts us in the situation of having to rely so heavily on raw, unproven rookies

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You draft needs. So the players you draft tend to fill holes you have in your lineup. I am sure there are CB's and LB's drafted in recent years that would not start on the Packers. Besides, it wasn't like the O-line was horrendous. They managed, what, the third or fourth lowest sack total? I can't remember the exact numbers. Yes they had help, but regardless, they came together by the end of the season. Colledge made the all-Rookie team didn't he. Man, I should start looking this stuff up.

But that is how it is with every team, you draft what you need because there is a lack of depth, and just because they aren't outstanding doesn't mean they aren't doing their part. Sometimes, however, you draft an Aaron Rodgers who sits on our bench but perhaps would start somewhere else.

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A couple of questions...

In the Brett Favre era, or moreso, the past 10 seasons or so, when has he ever had high sack totals? Watch tape of last year and see for yourself the time Brett had, not an abundance. He got banged around ALOT. But the sack totals I believe have more to due with Favre than a superior line.

Pyle is correct in his statement in my opinion, show me once where any other team has started 2 and sometimes 3 players on a O-line. That is a pattern of the past two years, and it looks to continue for another season as least and RB and maybe SS/FS. One or possibly two is better than, but than 4 to 7. But I really hope this pattern that has evolved over the past two years slows. But TT has "gambled" more on young unproven talent than any other GM I can remember.

I am not convinced in TT ability to build a championship, but I am not condemning him yet either. 3 years is about average to grade a draft class, so we shall see on 2005. You see positive signs of this team comming on, as I have said before in my opinion, this will be the Put up of shut up year for TED. If the team regresses, then doubt and questioning of the direction should be full force. And if the team continues to grow, then the doubting of the GM should lessen. If the second happens I will be amazed, but hence is life in the NFL. WIN NOW

This is where I have a disagreement with alot of folks. I don't look at that draft and think its anything more than run of the mill and extremely average.

I get a kick out of how because we have rookies and young guys starting that they were somehow solid picks. I doubt Colledge, Spitz, Poppinga, Underwood and possibly even Jennings would be starting on 75% of other teams in the NFL. I am not knocking them but when you are dead in FA and will not sign any FA it's pretty much a given that young guys will be starting.

It's like not paying Green and drafting Lynch/Irons/Bush and stating how great Ted is because he drafted a starter. He's only a starter because there's noone else to do it.

Please tell me WHO Colledge, Spitz, Poppinga, etc beat out last year? They start by default. Ted's idea of competition is some street FA that will play for 20 bucks a week and the chance to meet Brett Favre.

Alot of these guys probably shouldn't be starting. The O-Line struggled early last year. I'm not sure they gelled all that much by the end as much as McCarthy and crew did a good job at covering up the black eye by leaving 7-8 guys into block and by having Brett get rid of it quick.Poppinga was terrible in Pass coverage and Collins regressed.

These guys very well could become solid NFL players but let's not jump the gun. As with most young guys they are going to struggle but they have potential, as do the other 200-300 other guys that get drafted or brought into the NFL every year. Are our guys better because they are starting or does TT put us in the situation where we have to start rookies every year.

I don't think Ted is a terrible drafter but I don't think he's superior either. The problem I have is that he puts us in the situation of having to rely so heavily on raw, unproven rookies

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You draft needs. So the players you draft tend to fill holes you have in your lineup. I am sure there are CB's and LB's drafted in recent years that would not start on the Packers. Besides, it wasn't like the O-line was horrendous. They managed, what, the third or fourth lowest sack total? I can't remember the exact numbers. Yes they had help, but regardless, they came together by the end of the season. Colledge made the all-Rookie team didn't he. Man, I should start looking this stuff up.

But that is how it is with every team, you draft what you need because there is a lack of depth, and just because they aren't outstanding doesn't mean they aren't doing their part. Sometimes, however, you draft an Aaron Rodgers who sits on our bench but perhaps would start somewhere else.

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But it seems every off season the Packers are in a position of banking on rookies. Drafting for need is one thing, but drafting a player who you have to rely on 16 games a year right away is another. We don't have an effective plan B. Last year when Colledge/Spitz struggled we had to turn to Moll, another rookie. Was it disasterous, no, but it wasn't exactly solid either. If Ted continues this trend it's going to be impossible to cover-up all the black eyes at once. I simply do not see other teams building this way. We put alot of faith in rookies and career back-ups.

...we could've ended up with Marlin Jackson, Heath Miller, but nobody that would've changed the course of time for our franchise...and to pass up marginal NFL talent for a QB who weeks before the draft was the #1 player...it was the right pick...don't hit me with this hindsight 20/20 bullshit, we were gonna go 4-12 in 2005 regardless of who we picked there, THERE WAS NOBODY

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Actually, all 5 of the players at the end of the round are pretty good. Luis Castillo, Marlin Jackson, Heath Miller, Mike Patterson, Logan Mankins are all solid contributors on their team. Whereas we drafted a backup QB that may not even get a chance to take over until after his rookie contract expires.

Great, excellent responses, packer fans. FYI: Actually, based upon current rumors, updates, etc., the 1st round 16th selection may be a WR from a deep WR draft because the choice will be a deep threat/playmaker/kr selection. Further, for two reasons, Lynch may be gone by the 16th meaning the Bills may get him and the Pack have reservations, like a growing number of teams, about him. The recent talks have centered about choosing a RB in 2nd round etc. With the RB and WR/KR/TE needs on the Pack, the scenarios till selection day are endless. I would say stay away from the automatic pick selection like last year, i.e. Hawk, considering the options till draft day.

This is where I have a disagreement with alot of folks. I don't look at that draft and think its anything more than run of the mill and extremely average.

I get a kick out of how because we have rookies and young guys starting that they were somehow solid picks. I doubt Colledge, Spitz, Poppinga, Underwood and possibly even Jennings would be starting on 75% of other teams in the NFL. I am not knocking them but when you are dead in FA and will not sign any FA it's pretty much a given that young guys will be starting.

It's like not paying Green and drafting Lynch/Irons/Bush and stating how great Ted is because he drafted a starter. He's only a starter because there's noone else to do it.

Please tell me WHO Colledge, Spitz, Poppinga, etc beat out last year? They start by default. Ted's idea of competition is some street FA that will play for 20 bucks a week and the chance to meet Brett Favre.

Alot of these guys probably shouldn't be starting. The O-Line struggled early last year. I'm not sure they gelled all that much by the end as much as McCarthy and crew did a good job at covering up the black eye by leaving 7-8 guys into block and by having Brett get rid of it quick.Poppinga was terrible in Pass coverage and Collins regressed.

These guys very well could become solid NFL players but let's not jump the gun. As with most young guys they are going to struggle but they have potential, as do the other 200-300 other guys that get drafted or brought into the NFL every year. Are our guys better because they are starting or does TT put us in the situation where we have to start rookies every year.

I don't think Ted is a terrible drafter but I don't think he's superior either. The problem I have is that he puts us in the situation of having to rely so heavily on raw, unproven rookies

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You draft needs. So the players you draft tend to fill holes you have in your lineup. I am sure there are CB's and LB's drafted in recent years that would not start on the Packers. Besides, it wasn't like the O-line was horrendous. They managed, what, the third or fourth lowest sack total? I can't remember the exact numbers. Yes they had help, but regardless, they came together by the end of the season. Colledge made the all-Rookie team didn't he. Man, I should start looking this stuff up.

But that is how it is with every team, you draft what you need because there is a lack of depth, and just because they aren't outstanding doesn't mean they aren't doing their part. Sometimes, however, you draft an Aaron Rodgers who sits on our bench but perhaps would start somewhere else.

Click to expand...

But it seems every off season the Packers are in a position of banking on rookies. Drafting for need is one thing, but drafting a player who you have to rely on 16 games a year right away is another. We don't have an effective plan B. Last year when Colledge/Spitz struggled we had to turn to Moll, another rookie. Was it disasterous, no, but it wasn't exactly solid either. If Ted continues this trend it's going to be impossible to cover-up all the black eyes at once. I simply do not see other teams building this way. We put alot of faith in rookies and career back-ups.

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At some point you have to bite the bullit an take a different direction. By '05 this was getting to be an older football team. We had been a great offensive team for years but those guys were getting older....and not only did we have no SB's to show for it, the team, was losing it's edge more each year.
While it was nerve racking to see Moll roll in there to protect Favre are we not better off now having made that move vs. sticking with Flanny, Wahle, and Rivera who is already calling it quits?
I guess the bigger question is where would we be right now if we had opted to find some way to keep that team together? I can tell you I prefer people talking about how young we are vs. how god awful old that team would be right now.
We certainly wouldn't have been able to go back and retain all of the FA's we have resigned or addressed contract extensions like we have been able to do.
Resigning Kampman and Jenkins and getting Barnett back which we will do and keeping guys like Harris, Driver, and Wells around longer IS building a team thru more than the draft and career backups.
We have turned the corner on RELYING on rookies or backups. Why? Because we're a better football team now.
I highly doubt more than two rookies could earn starting spots this year and no more than that will land backup positions either because most of the 53 from last year return.
Two that won't. Green and Henderson who were in that inevitable group of aging vets that couldn't last forever.

Great, excellent responses, packer fans. FYI: Actually, based upon current rumors, updates, etc., the 1st round 16th selection may be a WR from a deep WR draft because the choice will be a deep threat/playmaker/kr selection. Further, for two reasons, Lynch may be gone by the 16th meaning the Bills may get him and the Pack have reservations, like a growing number of teams, about him. The recent talks have centered about choosing a RB in 2nd round etc. With the RB and WR/KR/TE needs on the Pack, the scenarios till selection day are endless. I would say stay away from the automatic pick selection like last year, i.e. Hawk, considering the options till draft day.

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I am liking drafting a TE or WR more and more as I think about it. Morency is decent, fits our scheme and could be a great compliment to a 2nd round pick (Irons?) I think our receiving corps have a lot of potential but is a bigger need right now than some other positions are.

The Packers may take USC WR Dwayne Jarrett or Ginn Jr. at pick #16, depending on which one of the top 5 WRs is available. The offensive needs, i.e. WR, RB, and TE, make the options till draft day and beyond endless till opening day. RB Lynch is just no longer the automatic choice of a few months ago. The Pack are concerned about Lynch and his character and injury issues, but he is still being considered.

Actually, all 5 of the players at the end of the round are pretty good. Luis Castillo, Marlin Jackson, Heath Miller, Mike Patterson, Logan Mankins are all solid contributors on their team. Whereas we drafted a backup QB that may not even get a chance to take over until after his rookie contract expires.

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No, no...I agree with you in saying that they were solid pickups, but where our franchise was at that point I don't think you were gonna talk the packers' front office out of drafting aaron rodgers

QB: Current Players – Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Ingle Martin
Status: Quarterback seems to be one position in this draft that the Packers really don’t have to look at until maybe a 7th round pick if any. Favre comes back for another year in his Hall of Fame career. Rodgers will have another year of clipboard and learning. In all honesty, Rodgers might not enjoy sitting, but it will only help him, and prolong his career. Martin is very athletic, and the Packers really seem to like him. He needs to keep improving and learning if he intends to stay with the team. Possible picks: Drew Stanton, Trent Edwards, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Jordan Palmer, Tyler Palko

RB: Current Players – Vernand Morency, Noah Herron, Arliss Beach, P.J. Pope Status: Definitely an area of need right now for the Packers. Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy, and staff might say one thing, but behind closed door you know there has to be a sense of need at that position. Morency showed he has the ability to carry the ball, and be explosive in the new zone scheme. However, he might not have the stator to withstand a full workload. If he is paired with someone else, he could be very dangerous. Noah Herron is a 3rd down back at best, and don’t be surprised if they play Noah at some FB, where he took snaps at last training camp. Arliss Beach is a team favorite and could get a look during training camp to get some playing time next season. Possible picks: Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, Antonio Pittman, Brandon Jackson, Michael Bush, Kenny Irons, Tony Hunt, Darius Walker, Lorenzo Booker, Chris Henry

FB: Current Players – Brandon Miree Status: If HB is concern 1, FB should be Concern 1A. Brandon Miree did alright in his limited time so far, but can’t stay healthy. Packers could look very early to fill the need at FB as well as HB if Brian Leonard is still around come the 2nd round. Fullbacks isn’t usually an area that is drafted a lot, so don’t be surprised if Green Bay looks to add the top FB from undrafted free agents. Possible Picks: Brian Leonard, Cory Anderson, Le’Ron McClain, Jason Snelling, Deon Anderson

WR: Current Players – Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Ruvell Martin, Robert Ferguson, Carlyle Holiday, Chris Francies, Calvin Russell, Carlton Brewster, Shaun Bodiford, Koren Robinson(suspension) Status: Driver showed more than ever his level of talent in the NFL last season. Jennings is definitely an up-and-comer with signs of a lot of talent, and a solid #2, if not someday a #1 WR. Ruvell Martin showed signs of potential, as well as a big body to throw to. Ferguson was injured, again. Carlyle Holiday showed he could catch some passes, as well as Chris Francies. In all honestly though, Holiday, Francies, Russell, Brewster, Bodiford, are guys that should not make an NFL roster, unless they are special teamers, or a 5th WR. Koren Robinson could provide a very solid target and weapon if he is reinstated to the NFL. Obviously an area that needs to be addressed if not once, maybe twice in the draft. Possible picks: Ted Ginn Jr., Dwayne Jarrett, Dwayne Bowe, Sidney Rice, Robert Meachem, Anthony Gonzalez, Craig Davis, Aundrae Allison, Steve Smith, Courtney Taylor, Paul Williams, Rhema McKnight, Jason Hill, Dallas Baker, Jacoby Jones, Steve Breaston, David Ball, Jarrett Hicks, Brandon Myles, Jayson Swain, Ryan Moore

TE: Current Players – Bubba Franks, Donald Lee, Tory Humphrey, Zac Alcorn Status: This is an interesting situation. The better the Packers Offensive Line can become, the better the TE’s should become this year, because they won’t have to stay in to help block as much. Some of the blame has to be on Coach McCarthy as well, as Franks was thrown ZERO passes inside the 5 yard line last season. If Lee can return to what he showed in 2005, he could be a help to the team as well. Both Humphrey and Alcorn showed some promise during the pre-season last year.
Possible picks: Greg Olsen, Zach Miller, Scott Chandler, Matt Spaeth, Ben Patrick, Martrez Milner, Michael Allan, Tyler Ecker

OT: Current Players – Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Tony Moll, Kevin Barry, Josh Bourke, Orrin Thompson Status: Clifton and Tauscher are as solid a LT/RT duo in the league. The biggest problem is neither one is young anymore, and injuries proved to become an issue last season for Tauscher, and was probably the least injured Clifton had been in a long time. Moll showed he can play, but would have a long ways to go in order to become a starter in the NFL. Barry probably won’t be on the team come 2007, as his weight and speed don’t match the quicker zone scheme requires. Packers should at some point look into drafting a pure OT to start to learn and develop as a possible future starter. Possible picks: Joe Staley, Justin Blalock, Tony Ugoh, Doug Free, Ryan Harris, James Marten, Brandon Frye, Corey Hilliard, Steve Vallos, Stephon Heyer, Julius Wilson, Herbert Taylor, Mike Otto

OG: Current Players – Daryn Colledge, Jason Spitz, Adam Stenavich, Tony Palmer, Junius Coston, Travis Leffew Status: Packers have definitely found their future at Guard in Colledge and Spitz. After struggling in the pre-season, College came in game 2, and never looked back. He was very solid throughout the year in both run blocking and pass blocking. Spitz started hot, but as the season went on, and a few nagging injuries surfaced, his production got lower and lower. College is more of a finesse player, while Spitz is more of a mauler, which can be a very good combination. After that, the Packers are pretty thin. They need to decide if Moll is a Tackle, or if he’s a Guard, and then keep him there and let him grow. Packers could definitely look into taking at least 1 Guard for depth, and competition. Possible Picks: Ben Grubbs, Arron Sears, Josh Beekman, Marshal Yanda, Manuel Ramirez, Tim Duckworth, Mansfield Wrotto, Dan Santucci, Mike Jones, Kasey Studdard, Kurt Quarterman, T.J. Downing

I agree with the positions just not maybe the players. I'm not crazy about Dwayne Wright of Fresno State. I think he's a 4th round pick but I really don't see the Pack putting RB off that long come Draft Day.

I'm intrigued by the Ted Ginn Jr. because of his upside and what he could potentially bring. However if Greg Olsen or Marshawn Lynch are there I think the Pack would take either or before Ginn.

I really think Eric Weddle is the way to in round 2 if he's there. Tanard Jackson is a versatile player but the Pack need a ball hawking safety and that's what Weddle is. While he doesn't have the greatest upside he's a polished prospect that can return kicks and punts. He’d make a quicker impact in my opinion.

I love the Ben Patrick pick. I think he'd be an excellent fit. It would not surprise me to see the Pack take him in round 2. In fact I think that's exactly what is going to happen.

I would get to picky if I really went any farther. I like the positions you covered during the 2nd Day. Nice FB pick and I agree that the Pack will probably take a QB in the late rounds to compete with Martin for a roster spot.

Remember though Thompson trades down a lot. The Packers will likely have 8 to 12 picks because of that.

Running Back: Vernand Morency can be a 250 carry a year back. With that being said, this is still the biggest area of need on our team. We have NO depth. Noah Herron is our top backup. The draft adds options for adding depth but very few options to add an immediate impact player. Adrian Peterson and Marshawn Lynch are the top two backs on everyone's boards, but they both have flaws. Look for the Packers to address the RB position in round 2 or 3 possibly with Antonio Pittman or Brandon Jackson.Wide Receiver: Donald Driver and Greg Jennings are two quality starting receivers, after them we have nothing. Robert Ferguson, when healthy is nothing better than a 3 or 4 and solid special teams player. Ruvell Martin could develop into a redzone threat. Koren Robinson? Many see our first round pick with WR. Immediate impact choices: Ted Ginn Jr., Dwayne Jarret, Sidney Rice, Robert Meachem. Defensive Back: We are old at corner with no depth and bad at safety. Marquand Manual will be given the opportunity to win his job. Marvial Underwood looked promising and Tyrone Culver played well as a rookie. The newly signed Frank Walker should help while our younger guys get ready to play. This position will be addressed via the draft but probably not until the third or fourth round. Who may be available are: David Irons, Fred Bennett and Travarous Bain.Offensive Line: Add depth in the later rounds

After reading the related 8-8 predicton article thread, months after my preseason poll that ran months ago on another forum, this is a good forum of loyal fans. In Mid May, after my scheduled return to another waiting forum of fans, I will stay to watch everybody have something to do.

When it comes to predictions, I use the parallel about all sports programs, e.g. college basketball or college football. At the end of seasons, the usual suspects are generally in the finals in Division IA. The same way can be said whether it is Michigan and OHio State [or Wisconsin] fighting it out for the Big Ten Title or either UCLA or USC fighting it out in the PAC 10. MMMM, why is it always the usual suspects?

While more complex, in the NFL, I knew the Colts would finally win the Super Bowl, i.e. Manning's time after years of personnel moves involving post playoff losses. As HOPE, the fact that the Bears, i.e. predictable, made it to the Super Bowl should show Packer fans that very good coaching with a good mix of personnel can take the team beyond competition and a return to the Holy Grail.

For another example, fans saw NE make the necessary offseason moves to address the personnel needs based upon their past year performance analysis. Lombardi understood that like Mike H. in Seattle who made great offseason moves too. They were predictable moves, a thing of beauty, involving professional management making the moves to maintain top tier winning potential status, i.e. predictable management culture, not just competitive status.

The social problem is predictability is unsettling to some people implying that certain inevitabilities with a borish time cycle exist to things in pecking orders. That is life. I am lucky not to live in such an environment.

FINALLY, we are down to two weeks before Draft Day with a relatively quite, mind boggling Packer offseason so far.

As a postscript, I am posting a replay great tribute to BF shortly with the sun rising one more stellar time across the Fox in a land at the edge of the sports world.

Packers draft overview: 'We should get a very good player' By Pete Dougherty

General Manager Ted Thompson made no moves of note in free agency to upgrade the Green Bay Packers' personnel after going from 4-12 in 2005 to 8-8 last year in Mike McCarthy's first season as coach. That doesn't preclude a significant signing or trade in the coming weeks — there's a chance, for instance, that Oakland receiver Randy Moss ends up with the Packers either via trade or as a free agent if Oakland cuts him later this offseason. But for now, all the Packers' meaningful offseason additions will come via the 2007 NFL draft on April 28 and 29.
Unlike last year, when Thompson held a prime pick at No. 5 overall, this year he's picking in the middle of the first round, at No. 16 overall. That reduces, but doesn't eliminate, the odds of landing a Pro Bowl-caliber player in the first round. Considering the Packers' many needs, he can choose a player at nearly any position to play a significant, if not starting, role immediately.
"History tells you every time it's your turn to pick, if you do the right thing, you can get a good player," Thompson said this week. "Certainly, at 16 in this year's draft, we feel the draft is strong enough that we should get a very good player. Whether that player becomes a quote-unquote impact player, I find that hard to judge. If I can get a good football player, I'm happy." Thompson has nine picks in this year's draft — his own in each of the seven rounds, plus a seventh-rounder acquired from the New York Jets for tackle Steve Morley and a free-agent compensatory pick in the seventh round. "The way this team is going to improve the greatest is improvement from within — these younger guys getting a year older, having that experience, another good offseason," Thompson said. "That's the way you get better and the way you sustain getting better."
Thompson probably will need immediate help from this draft class to improve on last year's 8-8 record, and he has holes in his roster.
In no particular order, the Packers' greatest needs are a starting-caliber halfback; a quality cornerback to play the nickel role for a year or two and eventually take over for one of their two aging starters, Charles Woodson and Al Harris; a receiver who can stretch defenses and eventually replace 32-year-old Donald Driver in the starting lineup; a safety good enough to beat out Marquand Manuel or any of the other returnees at that position; and a tight end with the running and receiving talent to challenge defenses vertically.
That's a significant list that Thompson can't come close to filling in one draft. He will have done well to fill two of them with immediate help over draft weekend. "I don't think you can ever guess (immediate major contributors from a draft)," Thompson said. "We'd certainly like to over the long haul, but whether right away or not, that's a little more difficult. But over the long haul, you'd like to have two starters out of every (draft)."
To set the Packers' draft board, Thompson has been meeting with his top scouts — personnel analyst John Schneider, director of college scouting John Dorsey, director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie, and pro scouts Tim Terry and Eliot Wolf — since early April.
Then, starting Monday, Thompson brought in his college-scouting staff for meetings through the weekend, with the daily schedule generally running from 7 a.m. through 7 p.m. Beginning Monday through Thursday next week, he'll meet with the coaching staff for its input and set the final board. There's always the chance Thompson will make a trade in the first round, but his history almost precludes a trade up. In his seven previous years running drafts — five with Seattle, two with the Packers — he's made no trades up in any round. He's traded back in the first round three times. Two of those came in 2001, when he had two first-rounders. He moved from No. 7 overall to No. 9 overall for third- and seventh-round picks from San Francisco, and from 10th overall to No. 17 in a deal that included acquiring Packers quarterback Matt Hasselbeck. Then, in 2002 he moved from No. 20 to No. 28 overall for the Packers' second-round pick.
Thompson insisted he's had numerous talks to move up in every draft. But his failure to pull the trigger on any of those deals suggests he drives a hard bargain, because he hates to give up extra picks to move up. Trading down is another matter. In his two drafts with the Packers, on draft day he's parlayed 13 picks into 23 total. "I'm the kind of person that goes to two different grocery stores to try to find cheaper oranges or something," he joked. "… In this particular draft, it depends on how it falls and how things work out. We have added quite a number of young players to our team over the last few years. That's helped if in fact we don't add more picks to our current draft group."