Not really. They can still do their job. Will plays happen because of no pressure. Sure. But that doesnt mean they couldnt have done better developing Hayden, Chekwa, Adams, Ross. Not to mention the other guys we had on PS. Teaching Jenkins some things who got torched the most week after week doing the same stuff. Honestly the QB's that hurt us the most were the guys who got the ball out quick and pressure would not have mattered much anyways unless there was better coverage to begin with. I hope we get a new DL coach as well.

I read our DL Coach Terrell Williams is coming back.

Not a knock on him, but I miss Mike Waufle. He's KILLIN it in St. Louis.

Ya probably best DL coach we had both times he was here. Too bad our DL this last time around underachieved. Its clear it was the players fault in that case.

So when his D-line does well it's because of him, but when they don't it's on the players? However that doesn't apply to Tarver? Have I got that right?

Normally it shouldnt change coach to coach. But Seymour was a POS that only cared about himself and Tommy Kelly was overpaid and penalty magnet. Waufle was fired the second time because we had two so called "pro bowl" DT's and no production from them. The fat has been trimmed since then.

Not really. They can still do their job. Will plays happen because of no pressure. Sure. But that doesnt mean they couldnt have done better developing Hayden, Chekwa, Adams, Ross. Not to mention the other guys we had on PS. Teaching Jenkins some things who got torched the most week after week doing the same stuff. Honestly the QB's that hurt us the most were the guys who got the ball out quick and pressure would not have mattered much anyways unless there was better coverage to begin with. I hope we get a new DL coach as well.

I read our DL Coach Terrell Williams is coming back.

Not a knock on him, but I miss Mike Waufle. He's KILLIN it in St. Louis.

Ya probably best DL coach we had both times he was here. Too bad our DL this last time around underachieved. Its clear it was the players fault in that case.

So when his D-line does well it's because of him, but when they don't it's on the players? However that doesn't apply to Tarver? Have I got that right?

Normally it shouldnt change coach to coach. But Seymour was a POS that only cared about himself and Tommy Kelly was overpaid and penalty magnet. Waufle was fired the second time because we had two so called "pro bowl" DT's and no production from them. The fat has been trimmed since then.

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

As it is Kelly had 7.5 sacks and Seymour had 6 in Waufles last year with the Raiders, how is that a lack of production?

Not really. They can still do their job. Will plays happen because of no pressure. Sure. But that doesnt mean they couldnt have done better developing Hayden, Chekwa, Adams, Ross. Not to mention the other guys we had on PS. Teaching Jenkins some things who got torched the most week after week doing the same stuff. Honestly the QB's that hurt us the most were the guys who got the ball out quick and pressure would not have mattered much anyways unless there was better coverage to begin with. I hope we get a new DL coach as well.

I read our DL Coach Terrell Williams is coming back.

Not a knock on him, but I miss Mike Waufle. He's KILLIN it in St. Louis.

Ya probably best DL coach we had both times he was here. Too bad our DL this last time around underachieved. Its clear it was the players fault in that case.

So when his D-line does well it's because of him, but when they don't it's on the players? However that doesn't apply to Tarver? Have I got that right?

Normally it shouldnt change coach to coach. But Seymour was a POS that only cared about himself and Tommy Kelly was overpaid and penalty magnet. Waufle was fired the second time because we had two so called "pro bowl" DT's and no production from them. The fat has been trimmed since then.

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

As it is Kelly had 7.5 sacks and Seymour had 6 in Waufles last year with the Raiders, how is that a lack of production?

For one Wauffle was fired.

I have never been against Tarver so not sure I understand your point. I have been pro Tarver this whole season and off-season. I have never waivered on that. What I said is that I think we need a new DL coach.

Not really. They can still do their job. Will plays happen because of no pressure. Sure. But that doesnt mean they couldnt have done better developing Hayden, Chekwa, Adams, Ross. Not to mention the other guys we had on PS. Teaching Jenkins some things who got torched the most week after week doing the same stuff. Honestly the QB's that hurt us the most were the guys who got the ball out quick and pressure would not have mattered much anyways unless there was better coverage to begin with. I hope we get a new DL coach as well.

I read our DL Coach Terrell Williams is coming back.

Not a knock on him, but I miss Mike Waufle. He's KILLIN it in St. Louis.

Ya probably best DL coach we had both times he was here. Too bad our DL this last time around underachieved. Its clear it was the players fault in that case.

So when his D-line does well it's because of him, but when they don't it's on the players? However that doesn't apply to Tarver? Have I got that right?

Normally it shouldnt change coach to coach. But Seymour was a POS that only cared about himself and Tommy Kelly was overpaid and penalty magnet. Waufle was fired the second time because we had two so called "pro bowl" DT's and no production from them. The fat has been trimmed since then.

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

As it is Kelly had 7.5 sacks and Seymour had 6 in Waufles last year with the Raiders, how is that a lack of production?

For one Wauffle was fired.

I have never been against Tarver so not sure I understand your point. I have been pro Tarver this whole season and off-season. I have never waivered on that. What I said is that I think we need a new DL coach.

Was Waufle fired? I thought he was allowed to leave, with Allen coming on board with his own staff.

Apologies thought when you said we need a new DL coach 'as well' you were inferring Tarver should go.

Not really. They can still do their job. Will plays happen because of no pressure. Sure. But that doesnt mean they couldnt have done better developing Hayden, Chekwa, Adams, Ross. Not to mention the other guys we had on PS. Teaching Jenkins some things who got torched the most week after week doing the same stuff. Honestly the QB's that hurt us the most were the guys who got the ball out quick and pressure would not have mattered much anyways unless there was better coverage to begin with. I hope we get a new DL coach as well.

I read our DL Coach Terrell Williams is coming back.

Not a knock on him, but I miss Mike Waufle. He's KILLIN it in St. Louis.

Ya probably best DL coach we had both times he was here. Too bad our DL this last time around underachieved. Its clear it was the players fault in that case.

So when his D-line does well it's because of him, but when they don't it's on the players? However that doesn't apply to Tarver? Have I got that right?

Normally it shouldnt change coach to coach. But Seymour was a POS that only cared about himself and Tommy Kelly was overpaid and penalty magnet. Waufle was fired the second time because we had two so called "pro bowl" DT's and no production from them. The fat has been trimmed since then.

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

As it is Kelly had 7.5 sacks and Seymour had 6 in Waufles last year with the Raiders, how is that a lack of production?

For one Wauffle was fired.

I have never been against Tarver so not sure I understand your point. I have been pro Tarver this whole season and off-season. I have never waivered on that. What I said is that I think we need a new DL coach.

Was Waufle fired? I thought he was allowed to leave, with Allen coming on board with his own staff.

Apologies thought when you said we need a new DL coach 'as well' you were inferring Tarver should go.

Not really. They can still do their job. Will plays happen because of no pressure. Sure. But that doesnt mean they couldnt have done better developing Hayden, Chekwa, Adams, Ross. Not to mention the other guys we had on PS. Teaching Jenkins some things who got torched the most week after week doing the same stuff. Honestly the QB's that hurt us the most were the guys who got the ball out quick and pressure would not have mattered much anyways unless there was better coverage to begin with. I hope we get a new DL coach as well.

I read our DL Coach Terrell Williams is coming back.

Not a knock on him, but I miss Mike Waufle. He's KILLIN it in St. Louis.

Ya probably best DL coach we had both times he was here. Too bad our DL this last time around underachieved. Its clear it was the players fault in that case.

So when his D-line does well it's because of him, but when they don't it's on the players? However that doesn't apply to Tarver? Have I got that right?

Normally it shouldnt change coach to coach. But Seymour was a POS that only cared about himself and Tommy Kelly was overpaid and penalty magnet. Waufle was fired the second time because we had two so called "pro bowl" DT's and no production from them. The fat has been trimmed since then.

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

As it is Kelly had 7.5 sacks and Seymour had 6 in Waufles last year with the Raiders, how is that a lack of production?

Not really. They can still do their job. Will plays happen because of no pressure. Sure. But that doesnt mean they couldnt have done better developing Hayden, Chekwa, Adams, Ross. Not to mention the other guys we had on PS. Teaching Jenkins some things who got torched the most week after week doing the same stuff. Honestly the QB's that hurt us the most were the guys who got the ball out quick and pressure would not have mattered much anyways unless there was better coverage to begin with. I hope we get a new DL coach as well.

I read our DL Coach Terrell Williams is coming back.

Not a knock on him, but I miss Mike Waufle. He's KILLIN it in St. Louis.

Ya probably best DL coach we had both times he was here. Too bad our DL this last time around underachieved. Its clear it was the players fault in that case.

So when his D-line does well it's because of him, but when they don't it's on the players? However that doesn't apply to Tarver? Have I got that right?

Normally it shouldnt change coach to coach. But Seymour was a POS that only cared about himself and Tommy Kelly was overpaid and penalty magnet. Waufle was fired the second time because we had two so called "pro bowl" DT's and no production from them. The fat has been trimmed since then.

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

As it is Kelly had 7.5 sacks and Seymour had 6 in Waufles last year with the Raiders, how is that a lack of production?

Because they were very poor at stopping the run.

It didn't help that they had no gap discipline and were so old and set in their ways that they wouldn't change._________________

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

Don't get it twisted, everybody knows our roster was far from great this season, it's you people who want to absolve any of the blame from the coaches. Give them good players and they'll look good. I've heard it a 1000 times by now. When a team plays like we did in the last month of the season, there's enough blame to spread it all over the team, coaches included._________________

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

Don't get it twisted, everybody knows our roster was far from great this season, it's you people who want to absolve any of the blame from the coaches. Give them good players and they'll look good. I've heard it a 1000 times by now. When a team plays like we did in the last month of the season, there's enough blame to spread it all over the team, coaches included.

Speaking of this line of thinking (Which I tend to agree with), this year is the prove it year. With that much cap room, Reggie is going to be able to buy a herd of decent football players. I doubt he'll go out and get many stars, but I'm without a doubt that he'll go out and get some very good talent to put all around this team. If we don't show very noticeable improvement it's going to be a very demoralizing year for fans._________________Bah-Weep-Granah-Weep-Nini-Bong
My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.

Not really. They can still do their job. Will plays happen because of no pressure. Sure. But that doesnt mean they couldnt have done better developing Hayden, Chekwa, Adams, Ross. Not to mention the other guys we had on PS. Teaching Jenkins some things who got torched the most week after week doing the same stuff. Honestly the QB's that hurt us the most were the guys who got the ball out quick and pressure would not have mattered much anyways unless there was better coverage to begin with. I hope we get a new DL coach as well.

I read our DL Coach Terrell Williams is coming back.

Not a knock on him, but I miss Mike Waufle. He's KILLIN it in St. Louis.

Ya probably best DL coach we had both times he was here. Too bad our DL this last time around underachieved. Its clear it was the players fault in that case.

So when his D-line does well it's because of him, but when they don't it's on the players? However that doesn't apply to Tarver? Have I got that right?

Normally it shouldnt change coach to coach. But Seymour was a POS that only cared about himself and Tommy Kelly was overpaid and penalty magnet. Waufle was fired the second time because we had two so called "pro bowl" DT's and no production from them. The fat has been trimmed since then.

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

As it is Kelly had 7.5 sacks and Seymour had 6 in Waufles last year with the Raiders, how is that a lack of production?

Because they were very poor at stopping the run.

It didn't help that they had no gap discipline and were so old and set in their ways that they wouldn't change.

Great observations. I just wanted to add to this. TK and Seymour played to the boxscore that many us only look at. It was obvious by their collective multitude of penalties that they were jumping snap counts to pad their stats._________________

Nodisrespect wrote:

(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:

Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

Don't get it twisted, everybody knows our roster was far from great this season, it's you people who want to absolve any of the blame from the coaches. Give them good players and they'll look good. I've heard it a 1000 times by now. When a team plays like we did in the last month of the season, there's enough blame to spread it all over the team, coaches included.

Far from absolved any blame for Tarver just think he showed enough in the first half of the season to warrant another year. Those are the same games that you thought he was good enough to become a HC. I am looking at it for the whole season you are looking at it from the last half of the season. Difference being I didn't crown him after a small sample of work.

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

Don't get it twisted, everybody knows our roster was far from great this season, it's you people who want to absolve any of the blame from the coaches. Give them good players and they'll look good. I've heard it a 1000 times by now. When a team plays like we did in the last month of the season, there's enough blame to spread it all over the team, coaches included.

Far from absolved any blame for Tarver just think he showed enough in the first half of the season to warrant another year. Those are the same games that you thought he was good enough to become a HC. I am looking at it for the whole season you are looking at it from the last half of the season. Difference being I didn't crown him after a small sample of work.

I agree. I would even expand that to his entire tenure here. There are things improved that have plauged us for years.

My point really was how you were giving the coach a pass and blaming the players but yet it's Tarver who is to blame and not the players, how does that work?

Don't get it twisted, everybody knows our roster was far from great this season, it's you people who want to absolve any of the blame from the coaches. Give them good players and they'll look good. I've heard it a 1000 times by now. When a team plays like we did in the last month of the season, there's enough blame to spread it all over the team, coaches included.

Far from absolved any blame for Tarver just think he showed enough in the first half of the season to warrant another year. Those are the same games that you thought he was good enough to become a HC. I am looking at it for the whole season you are looking at it from the last half of the season. Difference being I didn't crown him after a small sample of work.

Since Allen is staying, i don't have a problem with Tarver staying as well. I've liked Tarver from the start, but i'm not gonna sit there and pretend the coaching job in the 2nd half of this season was anything but terrible. I'm gonna look at it because this is how we went into the offseason, on a regression. That's cause for concerns. Now, i don't want anything but for him to rebound from that. Just because i want him to succeed doesn't mean i have to look the other way when he fails at his job._________________