My most recent commercial brew purchases were a pack of Westy XII, and several bottles of Allagash Confluence & Interlude from a few different vintages. My last batch of homebrew cost me about 20 bucks for 3 gallons. I'd say that's a huge cost savings right there

My most recent commercial brew purchases were a pack of Westy XII, and several bottles of Allagash Confluence & Interlude from a few different vintages. My last batch of homebrew cost me about 20 bucks for 3 gallons. I'd say that's a huge cost savings right there

Except: You aren't factoring in your labor let alone your equipment. Homebrew is some of the most expensive beer in the world.

There's a tremendous amount of myth out there. It seems like every time a few get knocked down and everybody agrees they are not based in fact a couple new ones pop up. It's like a hydra of stupid.

I've only bottled my beers and I don't see it as that big of a pain. Like anything else in homebrewing there's ways to trim time if you really want (e.g. leaving the damn labels on the bottles). I'm not anti-kegging by any means but I'd say I could probably prep and bottle beer almost as quickly as you could clean a keg, sanitize, fill and pressurize. I don't think the time saving is immense. That's what I took his point to be but I might have undersold it to myself. I dunno, I'm not anti-kegging in the least. I own a couple cornys I bought cheaply a couple years ago I'm still using as fermentors because I don't have the space for a tap set up right now.

It actually might though. We've got 230F as the caramelization temp for fructose. I am not 100% certain that the temperature on the inside surface of the kettle, on the bottom right above the flame, does not exceed 230F if the burner is hot enough or the pot is thin enough. Supposedly a jet burner can melt a hole in a stainless pot full of water.

Also, the presence of amino acids and other wort components and the pH of the wort will lower the caramelization temperature. Here is an article that showed caramelization of maltose at 130C peaked at 60 minutes, but maltose supposedly only caramelizes at 180C. Their marker of caramelization is "5-hydroxymethyl-2-furfural (HMF), the main characteristic caramel product". They call it HMF, but I'll call it 5HM2F (see below). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12395187

On the other hand, some sources say HMF is also formed by Maillard reactions, however some other sources refer to 5HM2F as 5HMF, so it is not clear if we are talking about the same compounds across the board.

Bottom line, I have questions about the research and I'm not 100% sure they are right about caramelization happening. On the other hand, I am not 100% convinced that it can not be happening.

It actually might though. We've got 230F as the caramelization temp for fructose. I am not 100% certain that the temperature on the inside surface of the kettle, on the bottom right above the flame, does not exceed 230F if the burner is hot enough or the pot is thin enough. Supposedly a jet burner can melt a hole in a stainless pot full of water.

Also, the presence of amino acids and other wort components and the pH of the wort will lower the caramelization temperature. Here is an article that showed caramelization of maltose at 130C peaked at 60 minutes, but maltose supposedly only caramelizes at 180C. Their marker of caramelization is "5-hydroxymethyl-2-furfural (HMF), the main characteristic caramel product". They call it HMF, but I'll call it 5HM2F (see below). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12395187

On the other hand, some sources say HMF is also formed by Maillard reactions, however some other sources refer to 5HM2F as 5HMF, so it is not clear if we are talking about the same compounds across the board.

Bottom line, I have questions about the research and I'm not 100% sure they are right about caramelization happening. On the other hand, I am not 100% convinced that it can not be happening.

I'm convinced you have too much free time.

Logged

Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)Homebrewing since 1990AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member BJCP judge since 1995

My most recent commercial brew purchases were a pack of Westy XII, and several bottles of Allagash Confluence & Interlude from a few different vintages. My last batch of homebrew cost me about 20 bucks for 3 gallons. I'd say that's a huge cost savings right there

Except: You aren't factoring in your labor let alone your equipment. Homebrew is some of the most expensive beer in the world.

I finally quit buying huge amounts of equipment about a year ago, so my six pack price (including equipment, but not labor) is hovering around $10 a sixer. Not too expensive... but definitely not saving money!

There's a tremendous amount of myth out there. It seems like every time a few get knocked down and everybody agrees they are not based in fact a couple new ones pop up. It's like a hydra of stupid.

I've only bottled my beers and I don't see it as that big of a pain. Like anything else in homebrewing there's ways to trim time if you really want (e.g. leaving the damn labels on the bottles). I'm not anti-kegging by any means but I'd say I could probably prep and bottle beer almost as quickly as you could clean a keg, sanitize, fill and pressurize. I don't think the time saving is immense. That's what I took his point to be but I might have undersold it to myself. I dunno, I'm not anti-kegging in the least. I own a couple cornys I bought cheaply a couple years ago I'm still using as fermentors because I don't have the space for a tap set up right now.

OK, I'll just say it just one more time then drop it. Kegging 10 gallons (including cleaning and sanitizing kegs) 30-40 minutes. Bottling 10 gallon, 2 - 2.5 hours. I guess to me that is a big time saver. Just sayin'.

My most recent commercial brew purchases were a pack of Westy XII, and several bottles of Allagash Confluence & Interlude from a few different vintages. My last batch of homebrew cost me about 20 bucks for 3 gallons. I'd say that's a huge cost savings right there

Except: You aren't factoring in your labor let alone your equipment. Homebrew is some of the most expensive beer in the world.

I finally quit buying huge amounts of equipment about a year ago, so my six pack price (including equipment, but not labor) is hovering around $10 a sixer. Not too expensive... but definitely not saving money!

I don't have a very advanced set up and I've managed to get most of my upgrades the past couple years for free (gift cards, reward points, etc.) so I'm not too deep on costs. I haven't thought about specific costs but I'm pretty sure I am running at less than the cost of a six pack of craft beer. It's pretty much impossible to buy sour beer for the cost of making it because the time required is of no cost to me. I could buy the ingredients and a new better bottle to make five gallons of lambic for cheaper than what it would cost to ship one 750ml from Belgium or even what they sell for at most bottle shops (minus Lindemans, Timmermans, Chapeau).

Of course, if I were billing my time into it at my normal hourly rate I'd be making really expensive beer but it's not billable time and I don't think of brewing as work.

My most recent commercial brew purchases were a pack of Westy XII, and several bottles of Allagash Confluence & Interlude from a few different vintages. My last batch of homebrew cost me about 20 bucks for 3 gallons. I'd say that's a huge cost savings right there

Except for me, I didn't buy all that cool beer until I started homebrewing and appreciated it. Not that homebrewing is the only way to become a beer geek, but it sure is one gateway.

Logged

Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup - former president ousted himself.AHA Member since 2006BJCP Certified: B0958

Except: You aren't factoring in your labor let alone your equipment. Homebrew is some of the most expensive beer in the world.

i guess i shouldn't be mowing my own lawn either, because the amount of money i could earn during that time is way more than what i pay the kid down the street. , not many hobbies are cheap. this one can be expensive or not. my lbhs has a huge ss blichman kettle for 700 bucks. my kettle bought at a goodwill store for three bucks. add another 20 tops for the electric element not so much.

I don't have a very advanced set up and I've managed to get most of my upgrades the past couple years for free (gift cards, reward points, etc.) so I'm not too deep on costs. I haven't thought about specific costs but I'm pretty sure I am running at less than the cost of a six pack of craft beer. It's pretty much impossible to buy sour beer for the cost of making it because the time required is of no cost to me. I could buy the ingredients and a new better bottle to make five gallons of lambic for cheaper than what it would cost to ship one 750ml from Belgium or even what they sell for at most bottle shops (minus Lindemans, Timmermans, Chapeau).

Of course, if I were billing my time into it at my normal hourly rate I'd be making really expensive beer but it's not billable time and I don't think of brewing as work.

I'm in a similar position. My AG setup cost me less than 40 bucks, and it paid for itself in ingredient cost savings in no time. I typically mix-a-six when I buy commercial beer, so the cost differential is significant. And since brewing is just a hobby for me, I don't consider my time a monetary investment. In fact, I could consider homebrewing a cost savings over other hobbies because I am producing something of tangible value with my time.

Of course, in reality I'm not doing this for the cost savings on beer. And some batches (i.e., my IIPA's) are definitely more expensive than craft beers. But as hobbies go, my return on investment is much greater in homebrewing than other hobbies I've taken up over the years.