^Well said. I agree, the show makes it look like winning will guarantee huge fame and success, when it's (most of the time) not true. A certain winner (*cough* Ryan Malcolm *cough*) has faded into obscurity and I haven't heard anything about him for about 2 years. Even though I do vote, in the end it could be better for a contestant to not win. JMO.

Sony-BMG dumped Ryan but you won't hear or see anything official about that because they don't want negative publicity to hurt their CI cash cow.

Btw, I had 2 links to articles in my previous post that were deleted because they were deemed on a "fansite". Which is ironic, since I only ever learned about that site (and others) from clicking on the sirlinksalot link at the top of FORT forum pages.

Sorry to drift off-topic. Getting back on track, apparently the results show tonight will be 1 hr. Not sure why they need so much time with only 3 left and Tony Bennett as the guest.

"In spite of all the temptation you have endured, all the suffering, you remain pure of heart, just as pure as you were at the age of eleven, when you stared into a mirror that reflected your heart's desire, and it showed you only the way to thwart Lord Voldemort, and not immortality or riches."

The winner's single (which is usually dreck) is rushed out on release and from the hype of the summer CI season and the interviews usually sells well. The CD album comes out just before Christmas and usually has disappointing sales because most of the CD is also dreck.

A tour is then arranged for the winter and early spring and has been the case (with the exception of most of Kalan's concerts) ticket sales are usually disappointing to poor and many venues get cancelled or play to half filled houses.

The self-fulfilling prophecy then comes true. BMG backs away from the current CI winner knowing that in a few months a new winner will take it's place.

I agree with much of what you say but just want to make a couple of points. The cd released in time for Christmas may be dreck, but it doesn't have disappointing sales. In terms of Cdn music where many artists are happy to sell 5-10,000 cd's in Canada, it has amazing sales which speaks more to the incredible power of Canadian Idol than it does to the quality of the record. To be fair, the winners are all good singers so it's not surprising they would do well, but still, Ryan sold 100,000, Rex and Melissa each sold 70-80,000 so 150,000 in total, and Kalan sold 200,000 and is closing in on triple platinum.

Your comments about the concerts are correct as it refers to Ryan and Melissa and Rex (except in Nfld of course) but Kalan sold out his first 40 stop winter tour in a blink and they had to add dates, and his next small tour in spring again sold out in a flash. But the big surprise to most in the Canadian music scene was the strength of his enduring popularity, even a year after he won. Quite a number of his concerts at summer festivals set attendance records and drew upwards of 20,000 people and the whole towns were abuzz over him being there. He needed police escorts because of the pandemonium in a lot of cases.

You're sort of right about the self fulfilling prophecy, but I'll refer to that in my reply to Remus Lupin.

Originally Posted by Remus Lupin

Depends on your definition of success. CI winners have a history of being tossed aside by Sony-BMG when the next one is crowned. Kalan's official site hasn't been updated in forever. Is that any way to treat arguably Canada's best CI winner to date?

No, it sure as hell isn't. It's a disgrace and embarrassing to all of them to be so badly treated by BMG as it isn't just Kalan's site. Fortunately, in Kalan's case, his fan club is still very strong and there are other sites that are better, and his Street Team site is getting going now and it's excellent. Good thing, because they are getting many thousands of hits on them. New people are joining Kalan's fan club daily even though he hasn't really been seen for a year.

Kalan has sold more than Jacob (Hedley) but he also had almost a year's head start and the huge hype and marketing machinery of CI/Sony-BMG behind him. I would hope he'd sell a lot more.

Yes, but it works the other way too. Kalan has been MIA for the last year while Jacob's been out hitting it very very hard so it's not surprising that Jacob is getting the mentions and Kalan isn't, but each of them have had a year in which to promote themself, and Kalan sold twice as many records as Jacob. And Kalan may have had Sony/BMG behind him but Jacob has Universal, and Universal is generally acknowledged to have a much more aggressive and successful marketing machine than BMG. They have been doing a very very good job with Jacob. And he has Capital in the States.

However, two years after his debut, where's the info on his follow-up CD? Why hasn't there been any word on introducing him to the American or overseas audiences, especially if his international following is as large as you say it is?

Last fall when they were still talking about Kalan's second cd, it was definitely planned to take him international. Alas, no cd, so nothing to internationally market. (There are restrictions on releasing CI cd's in the States - 19E won't allow it, so they can't put his first cd out there.) The major problem is, IMO because I don't know Kalan or BMG personally, that BMG wants cute Canadian Idol Kalan who sold 200-300,000 pop records for them, and Kalan has a very different idea of what he wants 'his' cd to be. Whether the two parties will ever compromise or work it out remains to be seen.

Actually, neither of us knows for sure who has the larger international following, but if you Google "kalan porter" and "hedley music", as well as search for "kalan porter" and "hedley" on that popular personal video upload site, you might get an idea.

True. But Jacob had a year to plan his cd and put out the music he wanted to so being that he's very much like many bands popular with young people, it's not surprising that in the youth oriented internet world, Jacob's music would beat Kalan's for downloads. We can't really compare because we don't know yet what Kalan's 'own' music will sound like.

As for reviews not being good, neither Kalan nor Jacob (or any CI alumnus for that matter) has received all that much praise for their respective CDs. Oddly though, the initial reviews of Hedley in the U.S. are more positive than initial reviews were in Canada. Success apparently influences reviewers' opinions.

Very true again about CI's cd's not getting good reviews. But I've only read two or three U.S. reviews about Hedley and they certainly haven't been great. You may well have seen others. What I find humorous though is that Jacob is trying so desperately to shed any mention of CI and is telling whoppers about what happened, yet he can't escape it in the States. It's getting mentioned every bit as much as it does in Canada. Hee!

I'm not debating who is better, merely pointing out that winning CI isn't all it's cracked up to be. Your statement about Rex vs Melissa merely re-inforces the fundamental problem with the current CI setup - the record company is in it for the quick buck, which is why it promoted Rex so much more than Melissa initially.

And I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I think it's a crime what they're doing to these young kids.

To be fair, the winners are all good singers so it's not surprising they would do well, but still, Ryan sold 100,000, Rex and Melissa each sold 70-80,000 so 150,000 in total, and Kalan sold 200,000 and is closing in on triple platinum.

Small correction... Rex's CD was certified platinum in January 2006 so he has sold in excess of 100,000. Melissa's CD was certified gold in March 2006 (50,000+).

Btw, if you can compare Kalan's double platinum sales to Jacob's platinum sales, you can certainly compare their respective internet followings.

As for Jacob having a year to plan out his CD, that is not true. Well into Feb 2005, he didn't even have a recording contract. His bandmates at the time (the same one he had during CI2) had to audition for industry folks and didn't pass the test. Almost by chance, he was introduced to three other guys who were looking for a front man. They did a little jam session together, found themselves clicking, put together a demo and convinced Universal to take a chance on a former Idol contestant. I believe they entered the recording studio in April 2005 and it took them 2-3 months to make the CD.

While there's certainly a core group of fans who know Jacob from CI, most of the Hedley fanbase don't like Idol-style music at all. They've had to work very hard to build this fanbase from the grassroots by doing the live shows and proving themselves. They wouldn't have been asked to tour with Simple Plan or Yellowcard if it was simply "Jacob from CI and his band".

Small correction... Rex's CD was certified platinum in January 2006 so he has sold in excess of 100,000. Melissa's CD was certified gold in March 2006 (50,000+).

Certifications are based on units shipped, not sold. BMG, for some unknown reason, wanted Rex nominated for a Juno so they shipped 100,000 and applied for the platinum certification. But the sales charts show that Rex hasn't sold 100,000 and that Melissa's sales have climbed (slowly) so that they're actually pretty close to Rex's now. After the first initial big sell off in eastern Canada, Rex hasn't done all that well.

Btw, if you can compare Kalan's double platinum sales to Jacob's platinum sales, you can certainly compare their respective internet followings.

Not quite sure what your point is here re sales and internet.

As for Jacob having a year to plan out his CD, that is not true. Well into Feb 2005, he didn't even have a recording contract..... I believe they entered the recording studio in April 2005 and it took them 2-3 months to make the CD.

This is true, but Jacob's cd was still his style of music regardless of which band he was fronting. Kalan's wasn't. It was the pre-picked Idol stuff that he had to record in three weeks. I still say that until we get a cd of Kalan's music, you can't make a valid comparison. The simple fact that Kalan sold so many cd's with such a prefab record speaks to his amazing popularity in Canada and the voice alone is gaining him fans worldwide.

While there's certainly a core group of fans who know Jacob from CI, most of the Hedley fanbase don't like Idol-style music at all. They've had to work very hard to build this fanbase from the grassroots by doing the live shows and proving themselves. They wouldn't have been asked to tour with Simple Plan or Yellowcard if it was simply "Jacob from CI and his band".

Yes, I quite realize that Jacob is doing different music from CI, and that he is working very hard to build his fanbase. But still, if he had never been on CI, nobody would ever have heard of him and/or Hedley and he'd still be just another garage band back in Abbotsford trying to get a break. Hey, I'm not knocking Jacob and his success. I don't particularly like him or his music or his antics, and I really don't like the nastiness he's spewed about CI and Kalan and his other supposed friends from CI, but I do give the guy credit for being given an opportunity and running with it. He has always been a master at getting attention, was lucky (and earned his chance) to get hooked up with Universal who are great marketers, but his appearance on Canada's most popular t.v. show gave him his jump start, no doubt about it.

Point taken. I'm certainly not a fan of the CRIA and their numbers manipulation.

Not quite sure what your point is here re sales and internet.

This is true, but Jacob's cd was still his style of music regardless of which band he was fronting. Kalan's wasn't. It was the pre-picked Idol stuff that he had to record in three weeks. I still say that until we get a cd of Kalan's music, you can't make a valid comparison. The simple fact that Kalan sold so many cd's with such a prefab record speaks to his amazing popularity in Canada and the voice alone is gaining him fans worldwide.

So you're making an assumption that Kalan's popularity is strictly that he's an amazing guy and the material on his CD has nothing to do with it? Yet you take the position that Jacob's popularity is solely because he's able to sing his own style of music?

Yes, I quite realize that Jacob is doing different music from CI, and that he is working very hard to build his fanbase. But still, if he had never been on CI, nobody would ever have heard of him and/or Hedley and he'd still be just another garage band back in Abbotsford trying to get a break. Hey, I'm not knocking Jacob and his success. I don't particularly like him or his music or his antics, and I really don't like the nastiness he's spewed about CI and Kalan and his other supposed friends from CI, but I do give the guy credit for being given an opportunity and running with it. He has always been a master at getting attention, was lucky (and earned his chance) to get hooked up with Universal who are great marketers, but his appearance on Canada's most popular t.v. show gave him his jump start, no doubt about it.

The same could be said of Kalan. Without CI, it is unlikely he'd have the same degree of popularity. Success in the entertainment business requires more than talent. A lot of luck and opportunity is needed. Kalan was very lucky that CI came along to give him exposure. How many violin playing teenage popstars are there?

And what "nastiness" are you referring to? I do not recall him saying anything bad about Kalan or the others.

So you're making an assumption that Kalan's popularity is strictly that he's an amazing guy and the material on his CD has nothing to do with it? Yet you take the position that Jacob's popularity is solely because he's able to sing his own style of music?

No, I don't think that's entirely what I'm doing. Who can figure out what makes one person more popular than another? Kalan has some kind of "it" that reverberated with CI viewers and cd buyers and concert goers. Jacob certainly has something going for him too because he also has very enthusiastic fans, and regardless of what he does - peeing on people, mooning his audience, getting arrested for public intoxication, fighting with his bandmates - they still seem to love him. Shane Wiebe certainly had a great voice, was humble and nice as could be, but he didn't connect with his audience as much as either Kalan and Jacob did. Why not? As I said, who knows? So yes, in a way I am saying that Kalan's popularity transcends the material on his cd. It has certainly been panned far and wide for its overproduction and innocuous 'pop' sound and I don't thing anyone is saying that it's the epitome of the music he will write and record. Jacob's popularity certainly isn't solely because of his style of music because there are plenty of bands out there making music very similar in style and sound.

The same could be said of Kalan. Without CI, it is unlikely he'd have the same degree of popularity. Success in the entertainment business requires more than talent. A lot of luck and opportunity is needed. Kalan was very lucky that CI came along to give him exposure. How many violin playing teenage popstars are there?

Absolutely. Without CI Kalan would likely still be playing in the bars and in classical ensembles back in Medicine Hat. I never said his success didn't stem from CI. He has said himself many times he went on CI to try and get a break into the music business, and after that it's entirely up to the person to make the most of the breaks they get.

And what "nastiness" are you referring to? I do not recall him saying anything bad about Kalan or the others.

Further to what I said above, Jacob has always said (well, he changes his story often but the gist of it is) that he only went on CI because of a dare from his mom and his girlfriend or on a bet from his then band. And that he asked to get voted off, or the latest interview from the States that I saw posted, that he walked in one day and just quit, that it was obvious the pretty boy was going to win. Where Kalan is grateful for the opportunities CI has afforded him, Jacob just scoffs and mocks the show. As for the nastiness, I have never once seen or heard an interview with Jacob where he has been gracious or complimentary about Kalan, and in fact has often publicly questioned his sexuality and other things. It's not necessary to repeat them here verbatim because they are just hurtful. Kalan learned well from his politician grandfather and in all his interviews he says the 'right' thing, although I'm sure his actions at the Juno's say more about his true feelings. When Jacob went on stage to perform (badly - did you see it? He admitted himself he was drunk and coming off a nasty physical fight with a bandmate.) Kalan picked up his things and he and his guests left the arena. But you won't hear him saying anything derogatory about CI or Jacob in public whereas Jacob seems to have no compunction in saying whatever assy thing comes to mind. Guess that's just Jacob.