Microsoft's Satya Nadella says if OEMs don't make Windows phones they will

Microsoft had a rather significant event yesterday with their keynote at their Worldwide Partner Conference down in Florida. After the keynote, ZDNet's Mary Jo Foley was able to speak with Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella about Microsoft's strategy – and more importantly – plans for mobile.

The 30-minute transcribed interview is truly fascinating to read in its entirety. Nadella is very precise in his language, and it is clear he certainly has an impressive albeit abstract vision of the company and Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile. Although you should read the interview yourself, for now we are just focusing on one area that Foley focused on for a few questions: Windows Phone.

Much has been made of Microsoft's decision last week to cut back on Lumia models and to seemingly scale back investment on the consumer side of mobile. Some pundits are claiming that this is the beginning of the end while others like myself see this as a smart – and necessary – shift in strategy (see also my #AskDanWindows Episode 2).

'We'll build them'

Microsoft's strategy appears to be the one I have put forth: let their OEMs build devices for Windows Phone. Foley asks about the highly interesting letter by Microsoft COO Kevin Turner, which mentions a Surface strategy being applied to mobile. Nadella's response is thought-provoking:

"If no OEM stands up to build Windows devices we'll build them. There will be Lumia devices. So I'm not afraid of saying, okay, it's all about the OEMs, or it's all about the ecosystem. It's about Windows. It is about the overall health of Windows and being grounded in any given day's reality, but having ambition of where the market is going versus being bound by current definitions."

Nadella reiterates the message later on:

"If there are a lot of OEMs, we'll have one strategy. If there are no OEMs, we'll have one strategy. We are committed to having the phones in these three segments. And I think the operational details will become clear to people as they see it."

Those three segments are Enterprise, budget phones, and flagship devices. My reading of Nadella's response is that Microsoft is committed to having Windows Phones now and in the future. Ideally, Microsoft's OEM partners build the bulk of those devices. However, if they do not step up, Microsoft fills that gap.

This mobile approach is the very same as the Surface one to bootstrap PC and two-in-one device manufacturing and sales. I think at this time, this is the right approach too.

Universal apps and a 'path dependent' strategy

Later in the interview, Foley raises the issue in downplaying Windows Phone, and how it could affect Microsoft's Universal Windows Apps plans for Windows 10. Without a phone story, Windows 10 becomes a lot less attractive. Foley gets right to the point:

Q:"Why as a developer do I now want to build an app that runs on Windows Phone if there's going to be even fewer Windows Phones?"

Nadella answers with a not obvious but well thought out response. In short, developers do not want to build apps for Windows Phone , that is the point. However, they may wish to build an app for the millions of Windows desktop users. Once they commit to that, however, they are now on a path since they can easily add that app to Xbox, HoloLens or even Windows Phone:

"Universal Windows apps are going to be written because you want to have those apps used on the desktop. The reason why anybody would want to write universal apps is not because of our three percent share in phones. It's because a billion consumers are going to have a Start Menu, which is going to have your app. You start the journey there and take them to multiple places. Their app can go to the phone. They can go to HoloLens. They can go to Xbox. You talk to somebody like Airbnb. It might be more attractive, given our three percent share on phone, for them to actually build something for the desktop and for the Xbox."

"And by the way, when we hook them on that, we have a phone app. This strategy is path dependent, which is a term I use that means where you start is not where you end up. And therein lies a lot of the nuance. The fundamental truth for developers is they will build if there are users. And in our case the truth is we have users on desktop."

This point is exactly what I mentioned on Friday. Developers still won't want to make apps for Windows Phone, but that is okay since they can go for millions of users on the desktop. Since the Universal Windows app tools allow a one app package, companies can just as easily publish their app to Windows Phone. After all, why not? It costs them nothing, and they can grab a few million more users.

Mind you, this is still a big risk. Microsoft is assuming that developers want to make apps for Windows 10. This desire has yet to be demonstrated, and it all hinges on that point. If companies still do not see a value in making Windows 10 apps, then the phone is very much dead. The bet here is on millions of Windows 7 and Windows 8 users taking Microsoft up on that free Windows 10 update, which is just a means to an end: the Windows 10 Store.

Is that chancy? You bet. However, leveraging Microsoft's strongest point – the desktop OS – is the smartest path to success. Stop trying to win on the phone directly when you can do it indirectly.

Nadella clarifies and reinforces this strategy as Foley presses him more:

"Because all of this comes down to how are you going to get developers to come to Windows. If you come to Windows, you are going to be on the phone, too. Even if you want to come to Windows because of HoloLens, you want to come to it because of Xbox, you want to come to the desktop, all those get you to the phone. It's not about let's do head-on competition. That will never work. You have to have a differentiated point of view."

When I hear from developers now that the outreach budgets to make Windows Phones apps has been slashed, which is true, by the way, it makes sense in this context. Why bother sinking money in getting Windows Phone specific apps when you are betting on all of Windows 10? It is about the big picture here.

"When I think about our Windows Phone, I want it to stand for something like Continuum."

Finally, Nadella also brings up Continuum, something that he claims is his favorite part of Windows 10 and Windows Mobile (and mobile, with a lowercase). Nadella does not see Microsoft competing head on with Apple or Android for smartphones. In that sense, yes, Microsoft is giving up at least on the traditional model.

Nadella though is focusing on the next era, what comes after smartphones. His vision and answer to this is Continuum, or broadly speaking the idea that your device adjusts to your environment. For PCs, this is the ability to remove a keyboard and switch to tablet mode. For a phone, this is the capacity to attach a mouse, keyboard and display to make it run Universal apps like a computer. Here is how Nadella talks about it:

"Therefore, we have to be on the hunt for what's the next bend in the curve. That's what, quite frankly, anyone has to do to be relevant in the future. In our case, we are doing that. We're doing that with our innovation in Windows. We're doing that with features like Continuum. Even the phone, I just don't want to build another phone, a copycat phone operating system, even."

"So when I think about our Windows Phone, I want it to stand for something like Continuum. When I say, wow, that's an interesting approach where you can have a phone and that same phone, because of our universal platform with Continuum, and can, in fact, be a desktop. That is not something any other phone operating system or device can do. And that's what I want our devices and device innovation to stand for."

The Intel Windows Phone gambit

We have already seen what Continuum for phones brings when Microsoft's next flagships launch this fall. However, what about going further? Someone asked me about "Intel-powered phones" and if I thought they were coming.

I can now answer you: yes , early next year. Microsoft does have an Intel plan in the works. Would that make a good use of the Surface brand once you have an x86 phone that can be a true computer?

This sounds like a huge bet rather than a solidly founded strategy. Betting on the fact that Universal Windows Apps will lead to a better App eco-system in Windows Phone is an extreme long-shot.
I really don't see the point in building Windows 10 Apps. There is already a very good app for each Windows 10 Device and it's called a website. We are running a small classified website but have gone to the extend to build an iOS and Android App. But we still wouldn't invest in a Windows 10 App as Windows devices are just perfectly capable and screen sizes are usually large enough to just use the website. So what's the real added consumer value to build a Windows 10 app, if not specifically for the phone?

I am a bit late to this conversation, so I am not sure if someone else has already made this point. I think the major flaw with this whole strategy is that it assumes that people are still developing apps for Windows desktop, and therefore, by extension will now build them using the universal app framework. But they really aren't. Web application development has largely replaced Windows desktop development years ago. I am not optomistic that universal apps for Windows is going to change that trend.

x86 or not. When a developer makes an app for Windows 10. It will cost them nothing to put it on to WP So why wouldn't they? . If Windows 10 succeds on the desktop and phone, then developers would proudly promote WP for their apps

"Mind you, this is still a big risk. Microsoft is assuming that developers want to make apps for Windows 10. "
for once I do not agree with you Daniel :) - but just that one thing (otherwise great overview).
What choice do any of us have, desktops are Win by large cut, all those users are not going to go away any time soon (some will abstinate from win10 but not for a long).
And if universal apps are now the mainstream on Win10 - all things running on Win10 will be apps.
There is very little risk there, I'd say next to none.
Whether that translates to phone power/market-cut - that's another question - having apps still doesn't mean people are going to buy it. That's where Continuum comes into play etc.
But there's still no real "risk" there - this is all about Windows actually using its advantage and hopefully becoming a more attractive proposition for developers and users. So it either works, or it doesn't, nothing to lose, things are not much better now anyways, it could only improve, will they improve? hard to say

Are we getting crazy? No matter how many trillions of users you have on desktop, the apps business is on mobile. App developers are that: app developers, and not PC developers. Desktop users are not mobile users and their behavior is not the same: they consume (when they do, but most of the time will just browse internet and use office) different range of products. No matter if I can support PC, Hololens or Xbox: this is not the mobile business, and this won't attract the big mobile delvelopers.

If Microsoft pretends to create a new trend means that they still believe we live in 20th century, before internet was invented.

I will give an opportunity to Windows 10, hoping that I am wrong, and not Microsoft is. But that's the very last one.

Well, it looks like Microsot will be the sole company making Windows phones unless Microsoft incentivies Android developers to port their apps into the Windows Store. When consumers compare an Android and Windows Phone smart phone that have equal specs, the Windows phone is usually cheaper however Android offers us access to way more official apps. Also, because Microsoft's apps for Android are just as good as they are for Windows phone, we might as well get the best of both worlds by purchasing an Android phone.

Microsoft still had to clarify whether the job cut will also affect market availability or not, especially ones whose supply chain was inherited from Nokia acquisition. If they insist in making Lumia their "first party hadware", thus making it elusive, I'm afraid WP will go even further down in market share.

The problem with this strategy is that, currently, Universal apps make for highly limited and mediocre desktop apps. Also, the cost of taking my existing MFC-based or WPF-based desktop application to Universal is immense and something I may not want to bet my job on, if the only real benefit is that the app also runs on Windows Phone with its 3% (US) market share.

Exactly. Why MSFT insists on banging its head against the WinRT wall yet again is beyond me. They've neglected Win32 for long enough that it too will begin to fail. Where are the Win32 versions of OAuth SDKs, native scalable UI APIs, etc? They've lost billions already on WinRT but that will pale in comparison to the future losses due to Win32 dying of neglect (I'm talking hundreds of billions of lost sales when desktop Windows dies, Server dies, then Office dies, etc.). I'm serious when I say that the focus on WinRT, and related neglect of Win32, will turn out to be the worst business decision in history.

It's like Toyota deciding to focus on three-wheeled cars and declare four-wheeled cars a "legacy format for automobiles".

This is a huge bet and one of the most interesting tech developments in ages. I have no idea if the Windows 10 Store will be more attractive to developers (frankly I doubt it) but the fact that Microsoft is betting so big on it must mean either that their research shows that it will be - or that they do this as a Hail Mary pass because they are guaranteed to lose if they don't.
Can't wait to see how it all turns out. W10 is a great OS, but so was W8.1 so...

That last paragraph is probably the biggest piece of news to come out of this article, an Intel phone is an insane prospect and as much as I hate to use the term, it really does feel like a "game changed". Regardless of whether it boats market share our not I think it will change the way people see phones and will potentially move other OS's into similar chipsets.

That being said i would think that maybe the enterprise phone segment will utilise Intel as that market would benefit most from it.

Actually, that is a new way to look at it. Path dependent. The Desktop is what Microsoft is about in the first place and the Universal App fill all the gaps now even those in the future should Microsoft's product line expand. But a whole lot depends on Microsoft especially the continue development of Universal Apps and it's nice to see they are still working on 3D touch.

i bought my first windows phone lumia 535 cause it was low budget and overall good :D i can say its awesome and with the windows 10 last build all more awesome it was worth my money and it was really cheap.. :D so yes i am not going back to android even through the store now is not that open.. they just stole me from google :D and i like google too :P

Things don't add up. Microsoft already had a very strong OEM in the form of Nokia. Why did it buy it in the first place if it was not interested in making phones? It seems that Microsoft considers the nokia aquisition as a big mistake. Whatever may be the plans of Microsoft, one thing is certain, we will miss the quality devices made by Nokia and only Microsoft is responsible for this.

microsoft really cannot do a head-on competition. why? because windows is waaayy above mac and android operating systems. MS is leading, not competing. continuum and hololens are yet their biggest items on hand. apple and google can only compete by having the same.

apple and google's is only strong when it comes to market share. the market only needs to realize what they are missing from using android and apple. they are slowing down technology. their only ace is the apps, and that is too superficial. the apps on apple store and google play will not lead humanity to the future. they are fad apps and games that commonly fade away once people got over with them.

microsoft technology on the other hand is opening the windows to our future technology. they are creating ways to show how a technologically progressive society uses its gadgets.

i actually like the idea of limiting phone entries: enterprise, flagship and budget. it would mean that flagship phones will get ALL the best features, enterprise will get extra features for business (like windows pro vs windows enterprise/education) budget phones will probably get cut off the expensive features. unlike today, this X phone is the best ever but its screen is so large. you can buy the smaller Y phone will same specs but it doesnt have this feature. it's really annoying.

I don't trust OEMs, especially with Windows Mobile; they are much more concerned with their bottom line than actually prioritising Customers' wants. I remember back in 2012, Samsung rushed to annouce the Ativ S in August (I believe) just so they could beat the Nokia 920's announcement, only for them to launch the device six months later in March the next year.. and then within two weeks of actually launching, they then launched the latest Galaxy S phone with hardware two generations ahead of the the ATIV S. I swore from that day on never to even consider buying another Sammy product ad I have not since.

Nadella shouldn't hold his breath for OEMs and I'm glad he's signalled he wont. He certainly doesn't need to and the strategy as spelled out here is spot on; MS can and should handle Windows phones themselves, OEM or no OEM.

If devs aren't stepping up, Microsoft should step in. Write apps themselves. Everyone makes a huge deal about apps, but what's the big deal really? Ms has the software, surface 3 and pro 3 proves they can make top tier devices; they have the resources to make apps themselves too. They can make their own games as well.

Now, if he could learn to communicate, and think about, and take into account, how his comments will possibly be "misunderstood"! This should be standard procedure for someone in his position! He should have communication experts helping him!

Then, we wouldn't have to listen to everyone say, after his comments, that Windows Phone IS DEAD! Only two years. And, he wouldn't have to clarify today. Horrible communications.

I'm really excited with UWP. Am working on porting existing WP8 app so my community will be definitely using it to get notifications and news. And some of them might want to continue getting notifications on their phones and will switch.

I am tempted to buy an AZF2 and wait for Windows 10 support and w partition it to dual boot windows 10 and android... Or just completely wipe android from it altogether if Microsoft will support other devices converted to windows

Hey Daniel - the Intel phone. Do you know if it will allow x86 executable code? Or will they just be using the Intel chip for Intels device security (i.e. the "enterprise" focus segment they're going for)

It is a good thing to hear from Nadella himself that Windows phone , sorry Windows mobile now , won't be discontinued and Microsoft will keep on releasing phones in 3 segments which I hope will have a sexy look , unlike most of the current LUMIA , save the 9 and 10 series . Assuming Windows10 is successful and I think it will be , it is however far from obvious that developers will rush to built apps for Windows 10 on desktop platform , desktop traditionally run programs not apps . Maybe Microsoft could start a new concept , call it "prapps" programs where users are able to choose an apps look and interface keeping the main functionalities of the program or chose to run the original program . I believe that something real new has to be found in the mobile arena , has become too much of a commodity . Microsoft missed the boat when the first IPhone was released , maybe they can be the innovator this time round . But worse to worse even if W10M keeps its 4% market share or increase a bit to 5% or 6% , it is still a significant number of users and by now after few years those users are committed to the WP/WM OS . Worth it I believe .

I'm still not convinced. As a desktop user, I'd be hard pressed to name a Windows app that is better than the website. Facebook? Nope. Soundcloud? Nope. YouTube? Nope. Netflix? Nope. So what is the point or appeal of developers making universal apps for W10?

You are right but nobody tried. And nobody tried because these apps would be full screen out of desktop. Now, modern apps are first class citizens on desktop. Sound cloud in tray sounds much better then sound cound in browser tab? Also, it's not that hard to put your existing site into universal app with native godies. You can use HTML/CSS/JS skill to make universal app. If your site is good enough, your site as an app will be only better...

So some people are asking why Universal Windows Platform over Win32 application in PCs market?
Well for starters universal windows apps(even the most basic ones, not true ones) runs in windows runtime container which means more security. Secondly, the store apps gets packaged as a single package without messing with the registries which ultimately leads to slow boot times that are problematic with Win32 applications. Plus, continuous install uninstall cycles cause operating system to corrupt over time. Someone who has seen PCs get slow and corrupt over a period of time, as a consumer will definitely welcome this new application development model that keeps your PCs clean, secure and as fast and fluid as day one.

Second question, why adopt Universal Windows Platform when the only significant chunk of all those device types is PC and we already have Win32 applications for that?
Right now, developers have to develop for PCs, iOS, android to cover all device types of all sizes. It means whatever you do, you are still stuck with windows on PC and different ecosystems like android and iOS, and even more ecosystems for android wear, apple watch, Apple TV, web OS and God knows what. With Universal windows platform, the attraction is more idealistically perfection than business, at least in start. If I were a developer, I'd want to help grow an ecosystem which will make life easier for me in the longer run. I would have to write only a single code for all device types and device sizes. I don't want to write different codes for all the number of ecosystems that are currently available. It makes life easier and most simplistic for me while also allowing me to reach wider number of audiences on different device types and sizes by doing less work.

Third question, what has OEMs to gain by adopting Windows? Right now OEMs make windows PC, android smartphones, android wear watches, web OS TVs, IoT devices but the integration with them isn't as seamless. If I were an OEM I'd want to sell a bundle of device types, like Windows based phones, Windows based PCs, Windows based surface pro like 2in1s and tablets, Windows based surface hub like TVs doubling as conference/communication screen as well as media and entertainment device, windows based wearables, windows based IoT consumer electronic devices and who knows maybe winodws based XBox like gaming console as well. I'd want to own the whole household with my family of devices. And also, when the technology gets powerful enough, I may want to create one device to rule them all preferably phone with which will act as a hub accompanied by different screen size accessories like TV/Moniter, tablet screen, watch screen, mouse keyboard, controllers/joypads and wireless connect them project screw onto them and work with interaction accessories.

Ofcourse, this all again can only hope if hardware and manufacturers and software developers work together to propel this single ecosystem of both software and hardware to rule them all.

Win32 has nothing to do with Windows installations "get slow and corrupt" over time or the registry getting screwed up. That's all due to programs and drivers installing a bunch of crap on your system. MSFT could have defined a new subset of Win32 with limited/appropriate access to the system and solved the problem.

If you were a developer you'd want to reach as many users as possible (not "help grow an ecosystem"), which means Win32 for Windows computers and Android/iOS for mobile. The ease of development is not related to what you want to do. Ever tried to develop an Android app? It's ugly ... but that doesn't mean it isn't successful. Visual Studio 201x is *far* better than anything on the other platforms ... but it didn't help at all in the adoption of WinRT/Win8/Win81/etc.

I'm not an OEM but they want to reach as many users as possible, just like software developers. So it's Win32/Android/iOS for them as well.

No amount of yakking by Microsoft CEOs or WindowsCentral posters or Facebook SDKs will change these facts. WinRT10 is DOA. It's time for everyone to move on and for MSFT to circle their wagons around Win32 (if they don't, they'll be totally irrelevant in five years).

While I like windows phones. They lost sooo much momentum. They needed to be burned and start anew

And its about FREAKING time they mention xbox and windows 10. The xbox could basically now have 1000 new functions and all that comes up is the streaming. pffft. Not sure why I would use that or if i have the bandwidth to make any use of it. Instead of talking about emails,texts,messages, facebook, music apps, indie games, mods, steam they just talk about the streaming process.

This. Is. AWESOME!! Exactly what I thought the strategy should be with Windows 10. People develop for the VERY HIGH point of Windows 10 on the desktop...which eventually goes for phones, tablets, and IoT as well. Google and Apple can't touch that. The apps run on ANY device here, while Google and Apple have separate, disparaged, services and OSes. Beautiful move, Microsoft!! Beautiful. :)

I hope that the next premium Lumia will be in metal and not plastic. Plastic phones are OK for lower priced Lamias', but not for high end phones. This is the biggest mistake Microsoft/Nokia has done with the Lumia family. In marketing we call it the duck test:
'
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.'

As it is now all Lumia's look the same and if you see them side by side it it difficult to tell which one is low end and which one is high end. The problem is: They all look cheap and that is a shame.

I understand where they are taking this. Build some quality phones (like an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy) so the platform has beacon for it to shine on.

It makes sense. Have an eco-system that when one app is built, presto it is on all things windows 10. This can only encourage app builders, (banks, games etc.) to build for windows 10 ecosystem. Sounds like a win win for them and windows 10 users on their computer or phone.

The one area that I do not hear anything about is using a windows 10 phone in the car!!!!!

What is going to compete with Car Play and Android Auto??? Something is needed to have that functionality in the car!!!

The reason why anybody would want to write universal apps is not because of our three percent share in phones. It's because a billion consumers are going to have a Start Menu, which is going to have your app.

Yeah, except I still haven’t the heard the argument about how or why, say for example, Instagram, Snapchat, Periscope or Meerkat would exist on somebody’s desktop.

Most of the newest, trendiest apps are specifically made to be mobile only.

An M9 for Windows wld be a good sign. HTC seems to have a decent relationship with MS at best and the M8 is agreat device ot re how sales were) so I don't see why not. Hopefully they just agreed to Android exclusivity for a while?

This is what they should have done the day they acquired Nokia. Build premium devices and other consumer products just like the surface line. Leave the low and mid range devices to OEM's. I would love a surface mini for consumption as well as a mini PC to manage my plex content. I don't see why this is not possible.

There is still an issue of the maturity and "viability" of the WinRT API Surface in terms of developing and delivering stable, feature-rich, performant Desktop Apps. Developing for WinRT basically means developing for a smartphone platform, not a desktop, becasue the API is designed for the least common denominator, and the only thing that differs between form factors is how the UI changes depending on where the app is being used. Most of the underlying code is the same.

You can't develop something like Affinity Photo (new amazing OS X Photo Editor) in WinRT. Not only would it perform terribly, but the API simply doesn't have the features and smartphones often don't have the power to do what those apps do at decent performance.

So it leaves developers in a pretty odd place, especially those just trying to get into development. Do they use Win32/.NET or WinRT? And if they use WinRT... What are Microsoft's plans in bringing it up to Parity with Win32/.NET so that developers are, basically, locked into Smartphone-level functionality in their applications - cause that's basically what WinRT is.

It's like developing for OS X, but you can only do what an iPhone is capable of in your OS X Desktop Application.

why would a developer put there app on the desktop when most apps are specifically built for mobile. How many of these apps have been built for macOS or chrome specifically. I would love to see it come true but this is going to be a slow and winding road that may lead to a dead end.

The apps run on desktop in window mode so effectively they are full fledged applications. And alot of apps are useful for both situations pc and phone. Even ones that are designed for on the go use (e.g. Yelp to find restaurants) you can imagine scenarios where they are useful at the desktop (e.g. General browsing and bookmarking for later use, writing reviews...)

Wow, Nadella still doesn't get it. No one is going to spend their precious dev time on UWP apps. No one is going to convert their Win32 programs to UWP. Why? Because we (Windows ISVs) can already reach the 1.5 billion Windows users right now with Win32. Here are the counterpoints to his arguments:

1. UWP will work on all Windows devices. There are zero UWP-compatible devices in the market right now while there are 1.5 billion Win32 computers in use. It will take years before Win10 reaches that number of users. And when Win10 reaches that level of usage, guess what, my Win32 programs will work just fine on them (except for the small number of Windows Phones).

2. They [WinRT10 apps] can go to Windows Phone, Hololens, XBox, etc. All of these devices have radically different screen sizes and human interfaces along with different device horsepower. What app would be common across all of them??? Even if you could think of such an app, you don't get all these UIs for free if you write a WinRT10 app - you have to make significant changes to your UI layout and code for each one. It's not "free", as Nadella implies.

UWP/WinRT10 is just another attempt by MSFT to collect 30% of Windows program sales. Win32 resellers charge 5-10%. That alone is enough to kill UWP in the eyes of Win32 ISVs. Not to mention that all the dev effort to convert to UWP won't pay off for years in the future. My time would be better spent converting my programs to iOS or Android. I would have a chance to recoup my dev investment with them.

Having your application in a store is important for exposure. You don't get that if you have your application on the web. Most apps are good for both desktop and phone. Look at win10 Microsoft app for example. Mail, office, calculator, news, money, etc... Are all good for both phone and pc. As for the zero effort: Yes, it is not zero effort as you have to decide on the interface for different screen sizes. But that is minimal compared to building two seperate apps for phone and pc (sometimes using two different languages and api)

So it's now clear there will be Windows phones, even flagships, whoop de doo. I wish somebody would ask Nadella or someone to clarify whether they're gonna let anyone buy them this time or are they gonna let AT&T hide them in the cobweb covered back corners of their stores again.

Woohoo! just what I wanted to hear a commitment to WP, all thoughts of which os would I use instead (ios btw I couldn't face going back to android).
Looking forward to my next Lumia, cheers Nadella. :)

Personally I will not buy a phone by any other OEM because after owning a Lumia, I saw the extreme difference in how the other guys support their devices. Once you buy from the other OEMs, support and updates end forcing you to buy another if you want the latest software. Yes MS will bypass the carriers and update the OS BUT they still need the OEMs to update their firmware and drivers which they simply won't do. MS on the other hand constantly update their devices and the enthusiast program is great. Personally I think they should squash the Lumia name and just call it Surface Phone and roll it into the Surface Family. Based on the beauty and quality of the Surface, the new phones are sure to be a stunner. Also a phone that will be a full computer in the future with Continuum and Intel will be amazing. Goodbye laptop bags!!!!!! Just stroll into your office, take your phone from your pocket and place it in the cradle and go. No more bootup. Just log into the company network and let it rip!

My biggest concern is this, when you look at the top desktop appa, its Office, Chrome and iTunes. Developers are not writing windows apps anymore, its all web, ios and android. Why would developers auddenly change that and write windows 10 apps and therefore set on the path for windows mobile apps?

Because, unlike windows 8, windows 10 generally has good reviews and will be adopted faster since it is a free upgrade for most people. The main incentive for everything is money. If developers think that there is a possible market and the tools ate easy to use, they will come.

No. The Windows Phone app Store is in way better shape than the Windows 8.x store. I have plenty of apps to my liking on phone, but the laptop store is abysmal. Why should AirBnB, or Facebook, or Mint or whoever invest in a quality app for the laptop when they already work so hard on their website? Why wouldn't their website be expected to provide a better experience on desktop than an app? At best they'll do the wrapped web apps, and that's of no benefit to Phone.
(Yes I'm aware Microsoft spent and pushed to get Facebook and Mint apps on Windows 8.1. But they're not good).

People want Instagram, Snapchat, Vine, etc.. all the excitement is in mobile. We are not gonna get phone apps via a trickle-down of desktop apps.

Problem is, MS make pretty amazing devices. Not one company has made a WP that is any better than a Nokia, Surface remains the best tablet out there, even the Band outshines any other smart watch/fitness band.

To use Satya's example, why does AirBnB need a Universal Windows app to reach the 1 billion Windows desktops? Why not just direct its customers to airbnb.com? And then add on with a mobile version of the website. After all, m.facebook.com is just as good as the Facebook app for Windows Phone. www.seattletimes.com via WP IE is about as good on a phone as the Windows Phone app. So why make Universal Windows apps at all?

Folks Hang loose ! Windows smart phones will not die! Microsoft will make now make no more than 6 to 9 models of Windows Mobile10 smart phones. two of them will be Windows Moble 10 Flagship class smart phones. Samsung will make 2 Windows Mobile10 smart phones a budget cheap model and a Flagship Windows Mobile 10 smart phone with Continuum capability that turns a Windows mobile 10 smart phone into a mini PC you can hook up to a full screen monitor and use a mouse and keyboard to do things. HTC will make a flagship windows mobile10 smart phone. LG will continue to make one Windows 10 smart phone and other Microsoft Windows mobile 10 smart phone partners will make at least "ONE" Windows mobile 10 smart phone. If developers make MS Universal Apps Windows Mobile 10 smart phones will get many new exciting Apps. As time goes on Windows 10 smart phones will gain more market sales share than it has now. the Outstanding things about Windows mobile smart phones are 1= the best smart phone that works with windows 10 Desktop laptop and windows 10 tablets. 2= The Continuum feature makes a Windows smart phones like a MINI PC. 3= they are not Iphones or Android smart phones and have unique differences some People want like lives tiles , Continuum, better MS Office Apps, and great Enterprise bussiness integration

No , Windows phone will not die , even if its market share increase only slightly from 3-4% to 5-6% . That still represent a large number of user . I am not sure however if the concept of universal apps will be as compelling as Nadella says . Developers must be convinced to develop apps on desktop , which traditionally are running programs , not apps . Desktop and mobile are very different animals . That they will do it is far from obvious One area of interest however in the Intel based smartphone , an other area that Microsoft should explore massively is the cloud "interrogating " apps . Simple example : A huge program residing on the cloud , lets call it "Move" list all means to move person , object or animals from point A to pint B worldwide , from taxi to bus to ship to plane with link to the various providers reservation page . Developer only got to come up with apps to interrogate that program and that would be very powerful apps . Just an idea

1) These three categories they're going to focus on....maybe I'm just an idiot, but how are they different than....just saying you're focusing on everything? It's an incredibly empty statement.

2) We've seen how OEMs approach Windows Phone. What do they say about insanity, etc?

Now, from a business perspective, I think his approach is the right one. Microsoft has always been a software company first, and their willingness to start becoming platform agnostic is a smart move. I can not see any way to spin anything they're doing as being a positive sign for the future of Windows Phone. Of course Microsoft isn't going to ignore mobile, but we've already seen the writing on the wall over the last year, as MS has started to wholeheartedly embrace iOS and Android (and, a strong argument could be said they treat those two much better than their own WP platform). Again, that's great business. But, if you're a WP enthusiast, I just can't see why you'd have much hope for the future of that particular platform.

As for "Continuum". Another fantastic buzzword with little meaning. Do people really think so highly of the way Windows 10 switches between "desktop" and tablet mode? I mean, it sounds great as a buzzword and on paper, but who actually LIKES tablet mode vs the way Windows 8.1 currently operates on a tablet? There's been plenty of uproar over how Windows 10, in its efforts to combat all the criticism of being a phone OS on a desktop has gone too far the other way and largely ignored the tablet experience this time around. Putting my business hat back on, I don't think that's neccessarily a bad thing, as it seems pretty clear that Windows tablets aren't exactly stellar sellers. But, from an enthusiast's point of view, it's again difficult to see how I'm supposed to have any faith in the future of the platform if this incredibly empty buzzword is what's supposed to uplift my spirits.

To be fair, I'm not sure there's anything they can do at this point that wouldn't just be bad business. So, I'm not neccessarily putting them down. In fact, I think they're making a lot of smart choices. I just dislike their empty cheerleading approach to a platform that it's fairly obvious is increasingly less important to their vision and bottom line, as they adopt a far more healthier services approach to mobile than their old paradigm of owning the platform and making everyone else provide the services. Though, I suppose from a business perspective, I'd also be doing this lame cheerleading. It doesn't really hurt them in the long run, and helps to milk a few bucks.

I love WP, not for the platform, but for the Lumia phones (higher end; or what passed for it 1-2 years ago). There hasn't been a single Android phone, from a hardware perspective, that pulled me, and I detest iOS as a platform. These days, however, anything new and innovative from an apps standpoint is going to be found on iOS and/or Android. Even MS's own "Garage" team largely ignores the WP platform vs iOS/Android (look at their releases the past few months and see how few of them are available for WP). At some point, my masochism is going to falter.

Few years ago I thought of CPU/Storage in my pocket. You know, thinking about were are we going with all insane power we have. And here we are. M$ is making software for it, we just have to wait for hardware few more years. Just imagine... desktop i7/2TB in your pocket... Why botther with Desktop for games and serious work, ultrabooks for productivity on the go, phones/tablest for consumation. What is wrong with one device and few screens...

I read the entire interview between Nadella and Foley. Satya does a much better job at clarifying his goals for Microsoft and it's mobile path. I think it's the strategy that should have been taken in the first place. Nadella is simply correcting Ballmer's mistakes. He's not giving up on windows mobile like the media us prematurely throwing around

I think Universal apps will fail. No developers will make Universal apps. They will continue to make desktop apps. The functionality of WinRT API is limited comared to Win32 API. Basically WinRT API and Universal apps are for mobile devices, not for desktop PCs. Windows tablets and phones market share is small unlike iOS and Android. For developers, learning WinRT API costs a lot. Making Universal apps doesn't pay.

API's get added all the time. Yeah some devs would have said the same about iOS when it started. No way universal apps won't be a hit, the hololens and Xbox are reasons enough to learn and build universal apps!

Universal apps are desktop apps now. I'm old enough to remember the very same complaint about DOS vs Windows. "Nobody will make serious windows application". But they did :).

Also, I can tell you that insane amount of desktop developers don't know Win32 API :). You think that everybody knows difference between win3.1, 95, 2000, XP, Vista, 7? They don't, just like they don't know the difference between AMD and Intel or Athom, Celeron, Pentium and Core CPUs. They just let compilers and frameworks do that for them. And there is almost nothing new to learn here. Responsive design is biggest jump and people were mastering it for years. Compared to swich from DOS to Windows, this is walk in the park...

"Mind you, this is still a big risk. Microsoft is assuming that developers want to make apps for Windows 10. This desire has yet to be demonstrated, and it all hinges on that point."

Actually it does NOT all hinge on that point. Even if every developer on the planet is driven to write Windows 10 apps, it won't help phones UNLESS it really is trivial to do the extra to make them work right on a phone. What is disturbing to me is I can't find feedback from actual developers who have done this. Sure MS claims it's easy but why aren't developers confirming that? If anyone has links, please post them. It probably is trivial for some apps, but what about most?

And a sub point is apps that would not be heavily used on a PC, developers of those apps would not likley be interested in Windows 10 at all so Windows Mobile won't benefit from universal apps regarding those apps.

I haven't actually written a UWP/WinRT10 app, much less one that spans multiple device types, but I have read through the WinRT10 API docs. It looks like for trivial apps you can fairly easily create a WinRT10 app that spans devices. MSFT has done a lot right on that part of the problem. However, trivial apps don't need a "desktop" version because they can be handled by a website in the user's internet browser (which is truly the "universal" platform because it handles all operating systems and devices). That leaves complex programs for WinRT10 ... and that's where the whole UWP idea falls apart.

It's not just running desktop app on your phone. It works other way too. You can run "mobile" app on your desktop.

Maybe it's easier to understand if we pretend that apple done that. You paid for some iOS app. But you are sitting in front of 27'' screen and you are running same app as a window on OSX. Or you are at home and you are running the same app on your AppleTV. I hear you... that is really nice feature that both developers and consumers should be interested in. Responsive design is nothing new and it is not that hard.

Of course you are not going to make 3D model on your phone and render movie on your TV. You are not going to do that on ultrabook either. But why playing with 5'' screen while sitting in front of 27'' screen? There is one answer... because you have to. But universal application will solve that problem.

I think that x86 phone is a niche product. Just a showcase for what windows OS can do. Developers and consumers shold switch to universal apps anyway. Backward compatibility looks like enterprise thing.

I believe that the lumia line will be like the nexus phone for google. With other OEMs making phones is really inviting fragmentation in eco system. Just look at android. OEMs don't know or they don't care to optimize the hardware to the software, again good example android. So I think to have the better possible experience on Windows Mobil buy a lumia. It's just a prediction with hindsight from the past.

I think this is a good strategy. Don't forget, when Nadella talks about the desktop, it includes notebooks, ultrabooks and of course tablets all. That means that many new "desktop" applications will have to be able to handle touch. And if I, as a developer already build an app that is supposed to run well on a big screen and on a 10" tablet, why not add the phone interface as added bonus. I see this as a big inventive. I develop business applications and I strictly built for desktop, simply because I am not interested to support 3 different OS. With Windows 10, I build for one OS and my users will be able to take their apps with them on the go. Granted, they will have to exchange their iPads and iPhones for devices where you really can get work done, but since I see them looking at my SP3 more and more closely, that should be doable. I also believe that the corporate environment will jump on the W10 train faster than expected. One platform to handle security and integration of devices is a massive time and money saver. How it plays out on the consumer side is to be seen, but I am carefully optimistic that the market will catch on with W10

What is so attractive about a universal app from a developer's point of view? PC apps already there whether universal or not but does anyone use those apps on a desktop or a laptop, which I believe is the vast majority of Windows? I am not making a judgemental call here but rather trying to understand this strategy of MS.

They are quite usable on the windows 10 desktop now that they have a windowed mode. In fact, resizing the windows to small sizes does not diminish their usability because the interface flows and rearranges itself.

Success or failure of this "Continuim" phylosophy will depend on the millions of PC users and developers that see the upside in having one app to be run on multiple platforms. I foresee the possibility of Continuim reaching out to Apple and Google. The basic office programs are already there and from what I've seen, acceptance is growing.

I'm not a huge Nadella fan but I do see what a futuristic thinker he is. Now to put that futuristic thinking into day to day practical use.

MS is not going to make a copycat phone.. To just be another smartphone.. He want to differentiate WP from Android and iOS.. So yeah.. So in that sense.. He is giving up on those kind of common and copycat phones.. Now onwards we will see only innovative devices to be the next generation smartphone..just like Surface line up.. It's not just a laptop.. It was something new.. Same applies here..

For the first time ever, I think I can say I actually read something this guy said and liked it. He gets that phones are almost meaningless to developers, and he gets that the solution to the app problem isn't throwing money (like many commenters here say). Instead, they're admitting a conscious assessment of that fact and a way around it. Rather than a generic line of how an app can go everywhere, we get the real menaing behind it, even if it was implied before.

Something interesting about it is how hardware's going to be tackled. We've worried about what will happen in that alleged time frame beyond Bloomberg's stated two-year support window, and it seems a little clearer now. I take the comments to mean that Microsoft seems to have a goal where they can give up making Lumia devices (or bring it to a major minimum, only a couple of devices), and create a PC-like ecosystem, where others (in this case, Samsung, LG, HTC, maybe even Sony and Acer and ASUS) do the hardware stuff. Maybe it becomes commonplace for flagship WP devices to be Exynos-powered Samsung phones. Maybe Microsoft lets BLU and Yezz carry the way-low-end in India and Mexico and such. Maybe Microsoft sticks solely ot the super-high-end with Intel stuff, or even passes that off to an ASUS Zenphone-like experience (or copies their idea with a Surface phone-tablet combo).

The comments seems more about real acknowledgement of Microsoft's standing in mobile, and showing a desire to keep it alive, but not by force (meaning financial losses left and right). I'm still unsure how that realistically happens, but maybe Microsoft would give up collecting Android royalties from device makers who opt to put out a W10 Mobile device or two. It could be an interesting solution to force hardware into the mobile space like they're doing with apps. I like a lot of the planning and wording, though the execution will be key.

Wow, u guys are super pasionate here. I am too but damn. Microsoft is in a strange place. Being the inventers of smart phones in the 1st place & having the ability, desire & need to take on apple and google in every aspect of their respective businesses. MS is the only company on earth with the capability to pull off such a thing and stick with it thru the good and the bad times. If you think about it, Its not MS going after apple and google, its more the othe way around. Apple and Google know that Microsofts Windows OS is a beast. Cortana/Bing search can and will take on siri and google search, They are trying to kill MS products because They want to take over the office suite customers and the cloud customers along with. MS has to fight back on all fronts or loose all of their business on all fronts. Its really kinda healthy competition but I think that MS will win out in the end. As for developers, they are stupid for not building on windows 8-8.1, But they should loose their jobs if they don't develop on Windows 10. IJS!

Less is More, and I'm glad Microsoft had taken a simpler route with Lumia-Windows devices. I am honestly looking forward to all their tiers, not just the premium. I plan on getting the Medium Range 5'' device to compliment my 435.

the main point is MS is never going to leave Windows Phone OS anytime soon or may be not even in future as well.. I don't care about market share.. I don't care about fancy apps ( even though MS and WP users do care about market share and apps - it's just my opinion) .. I'll stay in WP.. I'm so much invested in Windows platform and there is no going back.. This is real good news... Nice interview.. And Nice article as well..

Dan, you're blowing my mind over here. Are you really saying that there will, without a doubt, be an Intel based Windows phone in the near future?! I really don't want to wait any longer for a WP flagship device but I just may have to now.

Intel based phone won't see light until Q3 2016 at least .. Better go with upcoming flagship and later move to intel based phones if you wish to.. And it sounds like an enterprise based phone and you won't be having fancy features as a flagship I think..

No. Since when has Microsoft launched a product without announcing it a year or so ahead of time? If they're planning anything big, they'll announce it too far ahead. That is their way. So maybe they have an announcement planned within 6 months, but you won't see the device until maybe Q3.

This is all very simple and really should have never gotten to this point. People totally lost sight of the fact that the memo from Nadella was not a public statement, it was an internal memo to MS employees explaining the layoffs and the vision. He was explaining the reason for the layoffs. Windows Phone as an OS is dead, this is true. The new WP is just Windows which is why he made the statement that they are no longer pursuing a standalone smartphone platform. The platform he was referring too was Windows Phone, which was a standalone, specific OS for phones. Instead they are pursuing mobile through Windows.

Everyone got that wrong, including people such as Thurrott, who completely misinterpreted it and literally shoved the WP is dead, MS gives up message down our throats last week. I expect some sites like Cnet to act that way and run with it, I expect more from smart folks like Thurrott and others on more respectable sites.

What folly! What makes MSFT think that phone hardware vendors, will build new phones now, after dropping them for Android just a few years ago. Nokia was the primary vendor that you bought and castrated in a short two years, now just building the low-end. You slapped your users in the face by developing apps for Android/IOS before Windows. You should have had a touch capable Office product out 2 years ago. Whose brilliant idea was Windows RT? MSFT failed and now blames the market.

They're not expecting this to happen overnight. They're signaling to the world that this phone business isn't what they're in, they have different goals. Leadership into a new mobile era, no more of this fruitless smartphone war.

Ive never been a fan of this guy but maybe he isn't so bad. If the OEMs dont make it Microsoft will. Makes me feel better. I much prefer a Lumia or Ms branded phone to other possible choices. I never thought Windows phone would just disappear.

Can someone explain what an Enterprise phone is? Is that going to be sold in Microsoft stores alongside flagship and budget phones? Is it better than a flagship? How does it fit into a BYOD world? I don't see people giving up their iPhones and Androids because the company is issuing Windows Enterprise Phones.

I guess I have been around long enough that I understand Microsoft and Satya. What he said in this interview is exactly what was my interpretation of last week's news. Not the short sighted doom and gloom. Satya sees the future.