I bet you are right. He'd be happy to make a refund or two.
But what if 30 people thought it was enough of an issue to want a refund? 50? 100? At some point PPS is going to rely on their non-refundable deposit date having passed and deny a refund of the deposit.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say whether the OP could get a refund or not really isn't the point.

If it really spiraled that far out of control - I bet he'd start offering coin mechs to fend off refunds lol…but that's why I said in the other thread - if this is truly a deal breaker for you - call Rick.

It's not about the mechs.
Bait-and-switch? That's really pushing it.
What would getting a full refund accomplish? As I've previously stated, I want to see PPS succeed. I want to see other remakes made. I want to buy other titles from PPS. I just would prefer to buy them from someone who is willing to step up and admit mistakes when warranted and not seemingly take every criticism or suggestion as a hostile attack.
If Rick changes nothing about the way he communicates, I doubt it will impact my future buying decisions. But it will change about how I look at the company.

*sigh*

THEY'RE F*CKING COIN MECHS! lol

Rick communicates WAAAAAAAY more with more relevant information than almost any of the other pin manufacturers. Sure, he's a little dry & matter of fact…maybe a hair defensive….but all things considered, he's kept us all in the loop & listened to our criticism of castle movement, trim, etc.

Sure, when I heard the mechs wouldn't be included…my first reaction was "really?" …but it doesn't affect my life at the end of the day, it's such a minor thing. Compared to my NIB games that HAVE come with coin mechs but had a billion other problems…the last thing I'm worrying about are coin mechs.

Ditto. But the how the coin mech issue was handled makes me wonder if we have any other negative surprises in store.

It's childish to make that leap. He gave an answer about the coin mechs. Whether you like the answer or not, that's up to you. How does that have any bearing on the rest of the game? When the game was played at TPF, everyone said that it looked and played just like a MM. I've talked to people who've seen the final playfields and have said that they're immaculate. What else do you think is going to be "taken out by surprise"? You think it's going to show up without dragons or trolls? BYO Flipper Bats? I mean…seriously…once again….THEY'RE MOTHER F'ING COIN MECHS.

I think people are stuck on having to pay for them. Its one thing to say "hey guys, it'd make my job easier so no coin mechs installed, but here are coupons to redeem later for coin mechs of your choice." This would be the fair option.
As it sits, "if you want them, just buy them and pay for shipping and you can have them if you want them so badly." Isn't really fair and almost rude to not charge at cost and give free shipping if you have to charge at all.
The margins on this pin is probably pretty decent, but I guess if rick wants the extra 1500 mechs X $5 savings, then go ahead.

I'm curious about this too. Is this a way to skirt UL testing or other commercial regulation? Pretty serious questions pop up when the explanations aren't up to snuff. If somebody wants to operate these commercially are they going to get blindsided when they try to have them insured for liability?

He's already spoken about UL testing and how important it is. These conspiracy theories are almost bordering on libel.

The game needs to come with coin mechs. Arcade games that don't have coin mechs are not arcade games. Pins and video games without coin mech are worth significantly less in almost every single instance than their coin operated counterparts.

Do you know what a coin mech is? It's not missing a coin SLOT or a coin DOOR! If you want to route the game, you pop the mech in. The game is still a coin operated machine and still an arcade game.

Then why don't they include it? Is the software compatible? Is the plug out connector compatible? If it was just your pictured coin mech not included then why when you pay 8 grand for a game a $20 part is not included? Bottom line is why doesn't this overpriced remake have a working coin door?

You're deflecting. You're super mad about this and you don't even know what a coin mech is or how it functions. It's just the thingie that the coin falls through. You literally pop it in. There are no connectors. It has nothing to do with the plug out connector or software. It's a standard part of a standard Happ coin door. Yes, I understand this is a thread about being pissed about it missing....but for fuck sake, at least understand what you're mad about.

instead of a new IMVE or Hobbit or Full Throttle or TWD or a Multimorphic or TBL or any of the other games that are or soon will be available.

Once again, for some reason the burden of other game sales are all on MMr. Yet in the same sentence you bring up IMve - is IMve getting blamed for taking sales away from other games? Of course not. MMr's existence has no bearing on other game sales. If MMr didn't exist, someone might buy a $20k MM and then not buy something else. If someone wants MM, they'll get MM. If they want something else, they'll buy something else. The way we are in this hobby, we're likely to buy a few.

you are not keeping up.
our deposits were frozen. If we cancel our orders with JJP, we lose our deposit.
what item is the last item we won't stand for? What is next?
1,000 coin mechs, at $20 bucks each, is $20K revenue.
Here is another solution. Lower the price by the price of the mechs, plus worldwide shipping.
Wait, that would cost PPS/Chicago-coin money. Where is the money going they are not spending?

Did you contact Jack?

Seriously, if anyone is THAT pissed off about this….demand a refund and say you paid for a game with coin mechs & it's not cool that this was announced so late in the process. I bet if you called Jack and complained about this he would in fact refund your money including the deposit or send you some coin mechs to make you happy.

Has anyone called and complained yet? Please share your stories. If your'e just complaining about it in internet land, it's likely that nothing will be done to satisfy you.

1) you're missing the point - no one should have to be a squeaky wheel because PPS screwed up.

Look, it is what it is - game isn't shipping with coin mechs. They figured no one would care since most buyers are putting it in their house. If you've purchased the game and are truly upset by it… call the person you bought it from. I'd be highly surprised if they didn't offer you a full refund or complimentary mechs if you chose to stick with the purchase.

2) I don't think it was ever stated that MMR would come with coin mechs, so technically no one ordered a game that came with them. Everyone just assumed that since MMR was billed as a functional equivalent of MM, that the remake would come with the functionality to accept coins. AFAIK, all the other MMR changes (trim choices, LEDs, plywood bottom) are cosmetic, not functional.

It still has the functionality to accept coins. It's statements like this that are confusing people into thinking it's some kind of home-only game without coin slots.

Anybody spending $8k on a game knows the difference between the ability to drop a coin through a slot and doing nothing as opposed to registering a credit.
The idea that people don't know what a coin mech is is a bit of a stretch for me.

There are a lot of people collecting games that don't know the ins and outs and all the terms. So, when you say something like it doesn't have the functionality to accept coins - people are taking that literally. It's been demonstrated that people reading these threads are already confused about it and think that MMr became a home-only game without coin slots.

Aye, you guys obsessing over Rick's bank account. It's reached the point of tackiness. When people were pissed about Tron LE's single coin slot, I don't remember anyone talking about what Gary was going to do with his newfound fortune.

Why do I keep replying to these threads….while I personally don't care about the mechs, this is Rick's mess….I'll let him deal with it….but seriously, if you guys are going to endlessly cry about this - PLEASE - call whoever you bought it from and demand a refund. Just get out and be done with it. You just won't be happy with this game.

You keep saying this, but it is missing the point.
Why is it wrong to voice concerns over the missing coin mechs

You're missing my point.

It's not wrong to voice concerns over the missing coin mechs.

-It's wrong to come up with conspiracies like "what ELSE will be missing!?"
-It's wrong to infer the game is incapable of taking coins as though it's a Zizzle or Costco Stern
-It's wrong to keep bitching here if you haven't called Rick or your distributor to vent to the people who need to hear it.
-It's wrong to keep pretend-peeping into Rick's bank account as though he's a dastardly villain rolling in coin-mech cash.

Even though I don't personally care, it will agree that it was a bonehead move and backlash should have been expected. It would have been better for Rick to offer them for those who wanted them or needed them (operators). That way, everyone's happy. If the international mechs would have slowed down production, this keeps production speedy & lets people who need mechs get mechs.

I have no horse in the race, but I wanted to make one point that I haven't heard made yet.
1. This "incident" at its core, is about not meeting customer expectations, and the lack of an agreeable outcome to all customers in the face of that. I won't say more about that, since it's been well-addressed already.
Some of the responders in this thread have really puzzled me. Some have said, "I don't care about coin mechs..." I'd like to address those people with my point:
If I were going to own an MMR, I wouldn't be able to predict at least three things:
1. Can I be 100% sure I'll never choose to trade or sell it?
2. If I choose to sell or trade, can I predict if my next buyer will care about coin mechs?
3. What will I do, if I choose to route the game for a short or long while?
Bottom line is, I shouldn't be asking those questions when I buy a pinball machine.
In short, it's easy for me to say right now, "Yeah, I don't care about silly coin mechs (in the immediate short term.)"
I question whether you can predict with 100% certainty whether you'll for sure hold the pin for the next 30 years in your home, and never wish at some point that you had mechs in there... How can you be so sure you won't care at some point?
I'm sorry that we are examining asking these questions... It seems like a situation that can be still be remedied.
-mof

We're not talking about something that's missing and irreplaceable. This is comparable to a Stern Pro that comes pre-drilled for a shaker but doesn't include the shaker. If you want the shaker, you CAN put it in. Likewise - you CAN put the coin mech in. The coin door hasn't been redesigned to never function with a coin mech. We're talking about a standard Happ coin door. A mech is a part that pops in and out easily.

You would defend this problem if the game came missing everything inside as long as you get yours and can play it. Like the coin box, the manual, the goody bag, etc...... You don't need any of those things to play. All these items should come with this machine. Period.

Whatevs.

I'm not defending the problem. However, the reaction to it is so entirely overblown out of proportion and filled with misinformation. The reaction has become worse than the "problem".

C'mon Greg, you're not that stupid.
A shaker is an accessory. A coin mech is an integral part of the machine.

Yup. I'm a blithering idiot. I've thoroughly enjoyed shaker motors. I've never used a coin mech on any of my games. Not remotely integral....and - if it is required for an operator, they can pop 2 of them in. Just like a shaker motor. POP it in! Function restored.

What if the game didn't come with dragon wings? Or the translight? Or bolts for the legs? Or legs?
None of those are irreplaceable either.
It would only be comparable to the Stern Pro if the MMR flyer said "ready for coin mechs (not included)"

You guys are really going to beat the "what else will be missing!?!!?!" thing to death, eh? ....and Metallik calls me 'stupid'.

I'll come back when my game arrives and I'll be happy to tell you if the flippers, legs, translight, harnesses, etc are missing...I'm sure you're totally right, I bet I'll open the box and there won't even be a game in there.

Rare - I know full well what a mech is. Have since my first pinball purchase years ago.
Stop calling me clueless... if it doesn't come out of the box with the ability to take credits / quarters - it's not a coin op machine. Retrofitting a machine after it's on legs so it can take quarters != coinop.
It's not a coin op machine by my definition - nor by the Webster's dictionary.
I don't care how many of you fanboys say it is.... it isn't.
"coin-op·er·at·ed
adjective
1.
operated by inserting coins in a slot.
"coin-operated telephones"
noun
1.
a machine that is coin-operated.
"

Popping in a coin mech isn't "retrofitting". Look - I know you're from Texas, which means you can never admit to being wrong…but - you're wrong.

Whoa - this sh1t just got real... I know your from CA; so I'll let your self-importance be your downfall.

It's not self importance. I'm explaining facts. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. MMr is a coin-op machine. Fact. End of story. Can you put your pride down long enough to just admit it? Facts trump Texas pride.

Also, your first "your" should be "you're". Are you going to tell me I'm wrong on that one, too?

At best MMr is a Coin-OP Capable machine. It is not a coin op machine as it requires a retrofit of a pair $16 coin mechs for it to be a coin-op machine.

You're boring. And a liar. Just let it go. Cancel your order. Get a refund. You don't even understand the machine you bought. It's not for you. It's a coin-op machine that doesn't ship with the coin mech piece that easily pops right into the coin door...just like BBB, just like AMH. So, seriously, stop lying about it. It's called libel.

I doubt your buddies at PPS are planning on testing all the features of said coin-op machine on a per-unit basis... so it's possible you as the new owner of your non-coin-op machine will have to fight with PPS to get it repaired under warranty.

Dude. It's a standard Happ coin door. What exactly is there to test!??! The coin falls through the mech and hits a switch. This is a coindoor that's been used for what, 20 or 30 years? They can test the switches just fine without the mech. You clearly still don't know what a coin mech is, how it works, or how pinball manufacturing and testing works. Just stop. Stop saying words. You're not good at it!

Pinball business people more often than not bend the "rules" to satisfy a customer. If this issue is causing you ulcers, I guarantee if you call your distrib and/or Rick and go apeshit about it - they will give you a full refund OR some coin mechs just to calm you down and make you happy.

Has anyone done this yet!? I'm waiting for someone to say they did it and were told "tough shit".

Hilarious. Who's deflecting? I know what a coin mech is and your condescending nature is douchy to be sure, yet you have deflected and defended ppr without addressing the issue. If it is just a question of popping in a $20 part then why is it so hard for pps to deliver a working commercial coin operated pinball machine? I know you blew $8k on one of these and you have a hard on for this Rick guy, so you are naturally defensive in a way like panzer is with WOZ, but seriously? And I'm not super mad, so much as I'm mildly perturbed. Now go get your shine box.

Not defensive. Logical. …but to you facts are "douchey", so - what kind of conversation can really be had here.

Your reading is selective. I've already said it was a bonehead move and Rick should have expected this. However the response has been way overblown and IMO become more obnoxious than the issue itself. You're doing the exact thing that bothers me: misinformation. The game will be delivered as a working commercial coin operated pinball machine, just as AMH and BBB are working commercial coin operated pinball machines that needed a mech inserted. A coin mech is easy to insert if you're routing the game. Most operators have tons of them laying around anyway. Not a big deal.

more misinformation from you Rarehero. Neither AMH nor BBBr were expected to come with coin mechs. Making that comparison is silly and does not follow even your own typical logic stream.
Apples to apples, remember.
MMR was expected to come 100% function the same as an original MM. Did original MM come with coin mechs?
MMr is NOT a working coin operated machine as delivered by any legal respect or actual ability to accept coins and work.

Me? Misinformation!? That statement is misinformation! LOL

The comparison is sound. You maniacs are saying MMr is not a coin operated machine. How are AMH and BBB coin operated machines and MMr is not!? They're all coin operated machines & have the ability to accept coins and work….you just pop in a F'ing mech!!!!

How is that pure insanity?
He posted something that was 100% accurate in every way. He even toned it down by using the term "with minor adaptation". And he even used the word "technically", which kind of acknowledges that it isn't a huge deal, and he isn't arguing that the pin is completely gimped.
All things considered, it's one of the more even handed responses in the entire thread. Certainly didn't seem deserving of an eye roll, or claim of pure insanity.
If you keep going like this, you are going to be known as the PanzerFreak of MMr.

True, but still trying to justify the false accusation that it's not a coin-operated machine. Can we end this charade? It's a f'ing coin-operated machine. End of story. I don't see how being rational makes me Panzerfreak.

BTW, based on the many PM's I've received about this issue - the rest of the rational people are just putting the "Coin Mechers" on ignore and wiping their hands of it. Should I just do that? Is that how it is going to be around here? People go nuts, rational voices run & zip-it?

Coin mechs are the things that make a coin operated arcade game a commercial coin operated arcade game. Without them it is not a commercial coin operated arcade game but rather a game strictly for home use, like a zizzle or Sterns "The Pin".

Wrong.

Zizzle and The Pin do not have coin slots. They are absolutely incapable of accepting coins for coin-op use.

This game has a commerical Happ coin door with coin slots. It's capable of accepting coins for coin-op use. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

For the 50th time: Most pinball business let the "rules" slide to make customers happy. I'm not going to get whipped up into a frenzy from unsubstantiated Pinside rumormongering...but for the sake of argument, if the game were to slip into next year - I think PPS/distributors would work with people on an individual basis if they wanted a full refund.

I think the issue is not with people's opinions but with people stating things as fact that can't be backed up. I for one don't care enough to set people straight, but I certainly understand why Greg keeps popping in when he sees something that is incorrect, or stated as fact, without any verifiable details.

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