There's a lot of areas of history that so many don't want to touch, taboo and politically sacred topics. But who set up the taboos in the first place--right--them!

'Ant-semitism' is a sacred power word of their creation for their protection, and it’s been very effective in silencing millions and creating fear. Many have gone to prison for this 'crime' of voicing other perspectives. Deep rabbit hole.

I'm sorry? I saw a thread on this forum a couple of days ago, people posted a racist website and an anti-Semitic Nazi website and were very upset about them, and now you are telling me that anti-Semitism doesn't really exist? And you defend David Icke? Why does he reference "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", which is an anti-Semitic forgery and was also used by Hitler and was taught in schools in Nazi Germany? Why does David Icke do that if he is not anti-Semitic? I'm quite surprised to see him being used as a positive source in this thread considering people got really upset (and rightly so) in the other thread about the 2 websites.

And what "areas of history that so many don't want to touch" do you mean? In the context of anti-Semitism I'm starting to wonder if this forum or people on the forum doubt or deny the Holocaust? That again would be a big surprise to me considering that this is a forum for MJ supporters and again also because of the criticism on here regarding the 2 websites.

No, no one is denying the holocaust as far as I know. I don't follow David Icke so I can't say anything about that. But I do know there are people calling themselves 'jew' and are making good use of the fear of people to say anything bad about jewish people because of what has been done to them in the war, to go on with their plans. My grandpa always said when I was younger and I asked him about the war, that the jews killed their own people and that always made me mad because that was not what I learned in school, until I jumped into that rabbit hole. I found out my grandfather might not be that crazy after all. It's not that I believe one story over the other or have one definite truth on that, but I did find out that there was more than what was being shown on the surface. But as said before, that's an extremely deep rabbit hole there and it might be better to continue a discussion about that in a new thread, if anyone wants to discuss it. I think there are already threads about this actually.

There's a lot of areas of history that so many don't want to touch, taboo and politically sacred topics. But who set up the taboos in the first place--right--them!

'Ant-semitism' is a sacred power word of their creation for their protection, and it’s been very effective in silencing millions and creating fear. Many have gone to prison for this 'crime' of voicing other perspectives. Deep rabbit hole.

I'm sorry? I saw a thread on this forum a couple of days ago, people posted a racist website and an anti-Semitic Nazi website and were very upset about them, and now you are telling me that anti-Semitism doesn't really exist? And you defend David Icke? Why does he reference "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", which is an anti-Semitic forgery and was also used by Hitler and was taught in schools in Nazi Germany? Why does David Icke do that if he is not anti-Semitic? I'm quite surprised to see him being used as a positive source in this thread considering people got really upset (and rightly so) in the other thread about the 2 websites.

And what "areas of history that so many don't want to touch" do you mean? In the context of anti-Semitism I'm starting to wonder if this forum or people on the forum doubt or deny the Holocaust? That again would be a big surprise to me considering that this is a forum for MJ supporters and again also because of the criticism on here regarding the 2 websites.

She didn't say anti-Semitism doesn't exist. It can be wielded to their advantage however. Like MJonmind said, it's a deep rabbit hole.

I would never deny the Holocaust. I have my own thoughts on it which I won't get into but I certainly wouldn't deny the suffering.

_Scream_

My grandpa always said when I was younger and I asked him about the war, that the jews killed their own people

Well, that is BS. That is basically denying the truth.

MissG, what? Hitler was just signing the documents? That's almost like saying he didn't really know what was going on and didn't have that much to do with it. Wow, just wow ... I'd like you to name Jews that executed his orders, can't believe what I'm reading here ...

_Scream_

She didn't say anti-Seminitism doesn't exist. It can be wielded to their advantage however.

What? You are telling me that Jews just use "anti-Semitism" to their advantage or do sometimes? That, unfortunately, is an anti-Semitic comment in itself. And it denies that anti-Semitism is very real.

I really can't believe what I'm reading here, never expected to see things like that on any MJ forum ...

Well, _scream_, you should then talk with the same Jews I do who do not deny the holocaust but agree on the fact that some Jews are perpetuating the tragedy for their own benefit, including spreading hate.

I know that there is a division of opinion among jewish people about this very subject. However, both angles must be observed.

Logged

("Minkin güerveeeee")Michael pls come back

"Why a four-year-old child could understand this hoax. Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head nor tail out of it"

She didn't say anti-Seminitism doesn't exist. It can be wielded to their advantage however.

What? You are telling me that Jews just use "anti-Semitism" to their advantage or do sometimes? That, unfortunately, is an anti-Semitic comment in itself. And it denies that anti-Semitism is very real.

I really can't believe what I'm reading here, never expected to see things like that on any MJ forum ...

There is always corruption at the upper-most levels of any religion/government/bank/corporation.

_Scream_

I mean that Souza´s grandpa was not wrong, since Jews did work in concentration camps and killed people, including their own.

This is not true! They were forced to burn the bodies of the people killed in the gas chambers, being forced to do something doesn't mean they worked there, they were prisoners themselves and forced to do that. And they were forced to work, in fact they were worked to death, hard physical labor and almost no food, that has nothing to do with actually working for the Nazis.

I'm very surprised and shocked, never thought I would read stuff like that on an MJ forum, I think I should leave, this is a political ideology that I don't agree with at all.

P.S. MissG, if you can't name any Jews who killed other Jews in the Holocaust, then it's just an allegation and there is obviously no proof.

P.P.S. Bottom line is I'd never expect MJ fans/supporters with those kind of views and you also can't on one hand get angry about a website like stormfront and on the other hand post things like the ones discussed and support David Icke, that is hypocrisy.

Just for the record: I am not talking about the normal jews, or those that were forced to burn bodies. I am talking about the ones that are still controlling the world and our wallets and minds. The zionists, the 'men behind the curtain'.

MJ himself said that the jews did that to him (allegations and trash to take him out), his original version of TDCAU was banned because it had 'kike me' in it, which is seen as anti-semitism (don't ask me why, I forgot what it means). MJ had jewish friends, so he talked about the same 'jews' I'm talking about. Just wanted to explain that. I live in Holland, one of the countries that suffered the most in the war. I know my country's history very well. You will never hear me say that the jews haven't suffered in that war, but I do believe that the original story isn't what we have been told. What we meant with 'abusing the fear of anti-semitism' was just proven by you.

I hope you get what I mean. Michael said our history books were full of lies for a reason, he studied this war very closely. Just read up on it, even though this is such a difficult subject. I always reacted the same way you do now, but I decided to read up on it some more as well. Problem is that there is a lot of crap out there with half truths. Never forget that there are two camps. There are also videos and articles out there from people who ARE against jews but will mask their hate very well, hoping people will believe their lies. The truth is always somewhere in the middle and you should always use your own common sense.

There have been many non-jews: innocent german people, gay people, people from the resistance etc. killed in the war as well and I am not very sure that number is that much lower than that of the number of jewish people killed, yet no one talks about them, they are not remembered. Why aren't they? Why was the number of people that died in Auschwitz lowered over the years? I think the sign once said 3 or 4 million, I think it now says 1 million. Where did they get the first number, and where did those 2-3 million people go? Why are they saying that 6 million jews were killed, when that doesn't add up when you look at the numbers of jewish people alive before the war, and the number of people alive after the war? I am not saying it's okay if it's 'only' 1 million instead of 6 million, don't get me wrong!! Horrible things have been done in that war, but not just to jewish people. I am only saying that the facts might have been altered for a purpose. Just read up on it, but it's a very deep rabbit hole and not a fun one.

_Scream_

So you support the belief in a Jewish world conspiracy? The guys on stormfront do too ...

I didn't abuse the fear of anti-semitism, I just call anti-Semitism anti-Semitism when I see it. People who are anti-Semitic of course don't like that because they want to be able to voice their opinions about Jews without being told that they are anti-Semites and they want people to accept their world view as the truth.

I've have never heard or read anything about Michael talking about WWII and the Holocaust and him saying in that context that history books lie.

I'm German, and I know my country's history and Europe's history very well too.

I really should leave now and I will, if I want this kind of discussion or if I want to read opinions like the ones posted here, I can go post or lurk on stormfront or similar websites ... I'm very surprised and shocked to see opinions like the ones I just saw here on a forum that is about MJ and the death hoax, I know I'm repeating myself, but I'm really shocked. I've been lurking on this forum for a couple of months, mostly in the back and Front threads, I really wasn't prepared at all to read about a "Jewish world conspiracy" on here ...

P.S. Just saw paula-c's comment ... I really can't believe what I'm reading here. I really wasn't sure what to think about Front, this discussion started in the Front thread - I was on the fence about him, sometimes I was more thinking he could be real and possibly Michael himself, sometimes I thought he is just fake, so I kept reading. But now I really do not believe that Michael would ever choose a board to post on that supports the ideology shown in this thread. I'm out.

Scream, I think you either misread our posts, or just don´t want to see what we mean. I also didn´t say YOU abused it, I said you were the proof of abuse, because of your fear. Stormfront is a sick website with sick people. They base their hate for Jews in general on the controlling zionists, who have nothing to do with Judaism anymore. The people posting there are a danger to society and I am not pleased with you saying that we are just like them, because I assure you that we are NOTHING like them.

Just for the record: I am not talking about the normal jews, or those that were forced to burn bodies. I am talking about the ones that are still controlling the world and our wallets and minds. The zionists, the 'men behind the curtain'.

MJ himself said that the jews did that to him (allegations and trash to take him out), his original version of TDCAU was banned because it had 'kike me' in it, which is seen as anti-semitism (don't ask me why, I forgot what it means). MJ had jewish friends, so he talked about the same 'jews' I'm talking about. Just wanted to explain that. I live in Holland, one of the countries that suffered the most in the war. I know my country's history very well. You will never hear me say that the jews haven't suffered in that war, but I do believe that the original story isn't what we have been told. What we meant with 'abusing the fear of anti-semitism' was just proven by you.

I hope you get what I mean. Michael said our history books were full of lies for a reason, he studied this war very closely. Just read up on it, even though this is such a difficult subject. I always reacted the same way you do now, but I decided to read up on it some more as well. Problem is that there is a lot of crap out there with half truths. Never forget that there are two camps. There are also videos and articles out there from people who ARE against jews but will mask their hate very well, hoping people will believe their lies. The truth is always somewhere in the middle and you should always use your own common sense.

There have been many non-jews: innocent german people, gay people, people from the resistance etc. killed in the war as well and I am not very sure that number is that much lower than that of the number of jewish people killed, yet no one talks about them, they are not remembered. Why aren't they? Why was the number of people that died in Auschwitz lowered over the years? I think the sign once said 3 or 4 million, I think it now says 1 million. Where did they get the first number, and where did those 2-3 million people go? Why are they saying that 6 million jews were killed, when that doesn't add up when you look at the numbers of jewish people alive before the war, and the number of people alive after the war? I am not saying it's okay if it's 'only' 1 million instead of 6 million, don't get me wrong!! Horrible things have been done in that war, but not just to jewish people. I am only saying that the facts might have been altered for a purpose. Just read up on it, but it's a very deep rabbit hole and not a fun one.

The Jewish holocaust (thing not denied, but that, manipulated by interest), is the use that a caste of ambitious exploiters and profiteering circumstances, used as a pretext to hoodwink the world in combination with other vermin that sirvir them on a silver platter the possibility of obtaining through theft; a foreign territory, of legitimate possession of the Palestinians.

Quote

The Holocaust is often used as argument in favor of zionism, the holocaust is used for political benefit

Yeah, I made a long ass post and you are able to make exactly my point in just one sentence! Hahahaha. I guess your English is becoming better every day paula!

_Scream_

Souza, just because you word things more carefully and give Michael as a source when he never said anything anywhere about the Holocaust and that history books lie about it, doesn't mean you are different ...

I'm really gone after this post, I just saw that I forgot to reply to the number of victims thing ... the numbers changed due to ongoing research, the research wasn't done after a year or after 10 years and up until 1990 they couldn't research in the former Soviet Union, in and after 1990 they finally could start to look at those archives and the numbers changed again, because before 1990 they could only estimate without being able to actually look at the documents that the Russians had. No mystery there.

Wow, I don't know how the topic got to the holocaust. I posted David Icke in regards to ancient aliens coming to earth. The video of him speaking, he didn't even mention the holocaust once, nor did he talk about Jews at all. Another video of him I watched had to do with the moon. Scream, you narrow people down so harshly. We are each made up of thousands of beliefs/theories/interests, so why would you jump on this? I pride myself on reading various perspectives on hundreds of topics, and of not sticking with conventional opinion. I enjoy reading the stories people tell from all sides, and I have a brain, so I can weigh things, and come to my own conclusions. I love all peoples groups, and hate seeing any group that is abused and treated unfairly, but I also like to know the full picture to help me understand why certain groups are targeted. I believe God loves all people groups and has a plan for each person. I also believe God's story-line includes evil, with heroes and protagonists, because it makes the story richer and more dramatic. We all have good and evil in us. I also believe what MJ said is true, "Just because it's in print doesn't mean it's the Gospel (truth)." There have been major lies foisted on mankind for selfish gain, and plenty of altering/stretching the truth.

Would you not agree that victors have generally written the history books? Naturally they put their biases into the stories and reports. They want to vilify those they see as their enemies or those they want to subdue for their gain. Nothing's ever black and white but usually gray and complicated.

Oh, Souza, I'm not saying the holocaust didn't happen. Did it happen exactly the way officially portrayed...and what is it's significance compared to the many other huge genocides of people groups--those are my questions.

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Meanwhile, professional survivors in America have created endless museums and education programs that take the uniqueness of Jewish suffering for granted. They’ve also created a whole host of advocacy organizations whose fundraising depends on keeping the memory of the Holocaust alive. It has indeed become an industry — as former Israeli foreign secretary Abba Eban quipped, “There’s no business like ‘Shoah’ business.”

The issue in anti-semitic vs. anti-human is there is always a "blame" and a "feel guilty when I say so" card.Sometimes the cause is not the reason for the result.

Logged

Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.***********************************************************************************************"I am tired, I am really tired of manipulation." Michael Jackson, Harlem, New York, NY, July 6, 2002****************************************************************************************************** Let's tear the walls in the brains of this world down.*******Time to BE.

People are just too sensetive how we use words these days.Depending on how I would say Black when talking about black people can be used as I am a racist.Depending on how I talk about jews or use that word I could be considered a anti-semiteDepending how I speak about Jesus I can be anti this and that.

Racism was put there just so this would happen.

We can soon not speak about anything without offending someone.This is just insane!

:WTF: is it anti semitic if someone denied the holocaust or liked adolf hitler . I like adolf hitler and what's the problem?( since ariel sharon is good and man of peace ( palestine)and GBush (iraq and afgha masacres) .....)

the jews killed each others and they called it holocaust and put the whole blame on hitler.

the next step they convinced the world that they suffered from injustice and and.... so they must have a state to defend themselves.

And from israel, the jews give orders and commanding the world ( binky and brain) ( actually they are everywhere after the alleged holocaust they started immigration . even to north pole )....... and the history is long ,you know

so the holocaust is political weapon

scream:

Quote

So you support the belief in a Jewish world conspiracy?

Yes I did and I doubt this holocaust and wait they did a conspiracies before they are known as prophets killers right?if they did this with prophets how about normal human being

they control almost the whole world and when they reach 100% it's the EOW (armagedon)and I believe they wanted to destroy michael.(TDCAU)

Quote

What? You are telling me that Jews just use "anti-Semitism" to their advantage or do sometimes? That, unfortunately, is an anti-Semitic comment in itself. And it denies that anti-Semitism is very real.

so we must say that the jews are good. and all the kind words? no one can say no or it's antisimitic or maybe they are the choosen one . sorry I've never talked positively about them cause it's hard to find the good side.

when a jew say yes ,I say NO I can't trust them they don't do what they say .and call it antisimitic if you want

ps: don't tell me that you are confusing zionists and jews cause it's hard to find jews now

:WTF: is it anti semitic if someone denied the holocaust or liked adolf hitler . I like adolf hitler and what's the problem?( since ariel sharon is good and man of peace ( palestine)and GBush (iraq and afgha masacres) .....)

the jews killed each others and they called it holocaust and put the whole blame on hitler.

the next step they convinced the world that they suffered from injustice and and.... so they must have a state to defend themselves.

And from israel, the jews give orders and commanding the world ( binky and brain) ( actually they are everywhere after the alleged holocaust they started immigration . even to north pole )....... and the history is long ,you know

so the holocaust is political weapon

scream:

Quote

So you support the belief in a Jewish world conspiracy?

Yes I did and I doubt this holocaust and wait they did a conspiracies before they are known as prophets killers right?if they did this with prophets how about normal human being

they control almost the whole world and when they reach 100% it's the EOW (armagedon)and I believe they wanted to destroy michael.(TDCAU)

Quote

What? You are telling me that Jews just use "anti-Semitism" to their advantage or do sometimes? That, unfortunately, is an anti-Semitic comment in itself. And it denies that anti-Semitism is very real.

so we must say that the jews are good. and all the kind words? no one can say no or it's antisimitic or maybe they are the choosen one . sorry I've never talked positively about them cause it's hard to find the good side.

when a jew say yes ,I say NO I can't trust them they don't do what they say .and call it antisimitic if you want

ps: don't tell me that you are confusing zionists and jews cause it's hard to find jews now

Excuse me. Are you saying Hitler is a nice guy and all Jews are bad people? Because if THAT is the case, you might want to voice that opion on another forum.