Very good interview going on, still listenin and enjoying it. this should really get some exposure out there about it. Help is coming soon i feel
thanx to the multitude of exposures about it. Hopefully the source of it is found from all this also. It surely cant be swept under and away like
everything else can it? Nah ATS wont let it. and aparently LMH and Earthfiles wont either now. Not sure i know much about her and that site, gonna do
some readin.

What makes me upset is you have a physician telling the patient, "Go see a Psychiatrist," or a physician saying that these people are making it up.
Sounds like the same type of skeptics that insist that UFOs don't exist. It's unreal how skeptical some folks are. Or maybe sometimes the
"skeptic" has another motive for denying such things?

Originally posted by cybertroy...maybe sometimes the "skeptic" has another motive for denying such things? Troy

There is
different breeds of us. "Good" skeptics will force others to think outside the box, hence they actually increase degrees of freedom. Then you have
the debunkers who secure their world by not letting in any light. There are the ones who are spokespersons for this agency or that company whose
fealty requires them to lie. So yes, there are many types with different motives.

I for one encourage the inclusion of the mind in this research, both as a tool to come to a better understanding as well as a mechanism of defense. I
will relate a story in this regard.

Some years ago, I think 19, I had a problem with warts on my hands. In fact I had the problem since high school, about ten years. Then one day,
Christmas Eve of '92 I decided I was tired of them and willed them away. About two weeks later they had entirely disappeared and never returned.

True story. So my experience is witness to the power of the mind, and I believe a better understanding of how we relate to Morgellons mentally will
give us another option to use.

This sounds grotesque.I can`t help agreeing with Lazarus,that maybe its a nano project gone AWOL,the blanket denial by most doctors would suggest that
they have been told to ignore this(but i bet they have to give data on sufferers to someone).
I found this on rense: www.rense.com...
Its an interesting and disturbing theory,which attempts to link the similaritries of morgellons to the red rain phenomena which occured in
Kerala,india some years back.Some of the properties of the red rain would appear to support the hypothesis that its actually an interstellar organism
which can go dormant in the vacuum of space,then become woken up by the high temperatures of travelling through an atmosphere.
Dunno,could be something to it,although the chemtrail theory is good too,especially as there have been samples of trails taken which show the presence
of the dessicated cells.Oh and my take on the viral marketing

isinformation by the authorities to strenghten the "they are all delusional" line.
Massivley un nerving thread. Lets get to the truth of this one.

I almost feel sorry for the doctors that they interviewed that still think this is a self inflicted cause...

That will be a DOH! moment many years from now...
"ohh yeah... that doc... the one that said this was all fantasy... what a quack!"

will really turn the tables...

one thing about the interviews that perked my interest... is the mention of these type sores in Aids patients...

reduced immunity... same case as with Lyme sufferers...

So reduced immunity seems to be a neccessary factor in the majority of cases...
I wonder if everyone that has had Morgellons symptoms has been checked for HIV, Lyme, and any other immuno deficiency related illness (many are more
temporary less dangerous illnesses)

If we could reduced immunity to be a concrete factor, then we can start looking outside more boxes... and stop looking outside others...

The embarassment these doctors may experience for having stated that people with Morgellons (Lyme Disease?) are delusional will be nothing compared to
what Morgellons sufferers experienced when they went to doctors for help.

Too many were forced to go to mental wards. Some had animals, large and small, at home that got no food or water while their owners were held
involuntarily. Too many had DOP put in their medical files, thus not being taken seriously for subsequent medical visits for life-threatening
medical issues. Families risked being torn apart when "delusional" parents were accused of inflicting their illness on their children, thus
risking their children being put into foster care. Families have had to be very careful in asking for medical help, and when medical help was
forthcoming, it was often the wrong medicine by a wrong diagnosis because parents couldn't be open about the symptoms. If one parent was diagnosed
"delusional" they risked losing custody of the children in divorce by the non-supportive spouse who believed the doctors diagnosis and used it in
court.

The DOP diagnosis has wreaked havoc in many lives. And, most of the time it was made with no examination, no testing, no bloodwork. As posted a
few pages back, 79 out 80 Morgellons patients being treated by Ginger Savely tested positive for Lyme borrelia. Morgellons patients likely have Lyme
AND Lyme related co-infections. Perhaps a new type of co-infection?

Those people with Morgellons who have focused on rebuilding their immune systems are the ones who have reduced symptoms. Even without doctor's
help. But, it is an expensive effort, buying every supplement touted on the message boards as having worked for someone else.

Unfortunately, many have lost their jobs, their homes, and having been diagnosed delusional, some have lost the support of their families. They
cannot afford the supplements that help rebuild their immune system. They can barely afford food.

Yes, I see the smug doctors, so certain in their belief that Morgellons sufferers are delusional. Perhaps they will learn to do examinations and
blood tests before diagnosing, but I doubt they will suffer a fraction of what they inflicted by not listening to or believing their patients.

Diana

Note: There is a 3 hour program on Rense tonight - the whole show is devoted to Morgellons.

After a careful, detailed review of the "Morgellon's Disease" stuff presented on Rense.com and other places, I'm convinced now that probably 99.9
percent of these people are nuts. They have delusions of parasitosis, just like the doctors say they do.

Their crazy websites are filled with frantic attempts to "prove" that they have a real infection, and the psychotic nature of them is aptly
demonstrated by the hundreds of little photographs of the fibers they dig out of their open wounds. Not a real parasite to be found among them. Most
obviously accumulated from some old sweater or carpet.

Nuts, nearly all of them. Maybe there are one or two people out there who actually have an unaccountable infection, but they are extremely
rare. The rest are lunatics, ironically making it even more difficult for the real sufferers to get decent treatment.

Maybe I have missed something (which I highly doubt), but what exactly are your qualifications to lend us your expert opinion? Also, do you have any
sources/studies to back this up? Please provide your work and studies so that the rest of us can read over them. It's far too easy for you to
just show up and call these people looney toons without any sort of evidence to back your claim. So as I said, I would like to see either your
professional studies, or other links to sources that have indeed carried out professional studies.

Originally posted by Enkidu
After a careful, detailed review of the "Morgellon's Disease" stuff presented on Rense.com and other places, I'm... nuts.

Nuts....
That is my expert opinion.

[edit on 30-6-2006 by Enkidu]

I couldn't agree more with you enkidu... you are nuts... j/k (excuse my creative quoting)
I can relate to what you say... if you look back at my original posts on this, i was of a very similar mindset...

I come from a medical family (docs and pharms) and they all agree that this seemed like delusional parasitosis... but after bringing them info that
has been collected (and yes, i had to be selective) they agree that they are wrong... they dont know what it is, but it isn't delusional... (although
there is sure to be some element of that within the sufferers group)

there is much confusion, due to the newness of the infection type, the unreliability of test results, and the apparent fibers that look more like
fishing line, than organic...

I am leaning towards a new type of infection... based upon the few doctors that HAVE looked at this...
they state that these fibers are indeed natural, and not synthetic... and seem to have some plant componant in them...

I dont know why i am bothering to explain all this... except to say...
when dealing with something that has this amount of good evidence mixed with the bad, there is something going on... but what?

gotta ignore the skin picker hypochondriacs, to get to the true sufferers.

BTW, the whole statement of delusional parasitosis was established for prejudged reasons...
doctors saw "thread under skin" and thought, these people are nuts...
if they actually put it there, then yes, they are totally nuts...

but several victims were on the film, that didn't have the open sores, but yet, still could see the threads under the skin... so it defies the
reasons for the misapplied diagnosis.

Doctors and the CDC are learning, and might come up with something...
can we expect you to drop by for a full plate of crow at that time?
with or without ketchup?

Originally posted by Enkidu
After a careful, detailed review of the "Morgellon's Disease" stuff presented on Rense.com and other places, I'm convinced now that probably 99.9
percent of these people are nuts.

I assume by "other places" you have forged ahead and interviewed families who have lost loved ones to this disease and personally taken the stories
from researchers in the field actively working on this area.

From the rest of your post I see you as a septic of the second kind, but when including this part you may very well be a devil's advocate and
actually be a skeptic of the first kind hidden from view. This is the maneuver where I start with a long leash by giving the benefit of the doubt.

you all have touch on parts of this mystery without even knowing it. read this link. www.abovetopsecret.com... good
job on the research there too. its great to have the interest of such an intelligent group of people.

snip from the link provided above.

"Scientists and governments recognized the importance of misfolded actin proteins and the resultant trends in microbial mutation decades ago, and
issued warnings regularly. Then, between 2 and 4 years ago something changed. Mutation rates shot up abruptly and rapidly - but the scientists
recommending intervention and prevention suddenly were silenced.". At the same time, public health campaigns and health insurance policies
were modified to say disease is a "personal responsibility" and "genetic." Now, decision-makers totally dismiss the reality of rampantly mutating
infectious disease."

Also, most likely to be directly linked to this agent is ca mrsa, the spike in numbers of parkinsons and alzheimer's disease patients.

" . . . 9. Relying ONLY on the blood or urine tests for Lyme
disease is NOT recommended. The current tests have
been found to be inaccurate as a sure indicator that
Lyme disease is present. False negatives are
common and the standard ELISA tests that are normally
performed miss MANY cases of Lyme Disease. See
www.igenex.com for reliable tests. Conns Current
Therapy, 1997, has published liberal guidelines for
the diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease. Doctors
need to review that information, then listen carefully
to their patients and diagnose clinically by the signs
and symptoms presenting. * Update... Please see Dr.
Joseph Burrascano’s “Advanced Topic’s in Lyme Disease”
which can be found at the following Internet site: library.lymenet.org...

10. If you are bitten by a tick while on the job,
insist that an accident report be filed immediately
and seek treatment! Each time and every time. Do not
wait until you have symptoms! The companies providing
insurance have found many reasons why they should not
be responsible for treating Lyme disease, and not
filing a report on time is a legal issue they may try
to use to deny benefits. The cost of medication often
used for treating chronic Lyme disease can be up to
$2,000.00 per day. If four months of treatment are
ordered, the medication alone could run approximately
$240,000.00. You do not need to be arguing with
insurance companies, hiring attorneys, and delaying
treatments until a court can make a decision because
you didn't take a few minutes to file a report. Keep a
copy of all of your medical records and receipts as
they are generated. . . . "

=====

Here are obituaries, as you scroll down you'll come to a list of links, each blue link is someone's life cut short:

The problem is that different infection paths lead to different forms of ailment, allowing the establishment to classify one disease as dozens of
diseases, therefore artificially deflating numbers and precluding awareness.

The whole problem with Bb (lyme's agent) is its ability to shed its cell walls.... organisms without cell walls are usually known as
mycoplasma. there are tons of interesting and disturbing theories about it, see f-ex

Please also read Dr. Omar Amin’s article entitled, ”Neuro-Cutaneous Syndrome - A New Disorder,” where he describes skin lesions with fibers and
even insect parts inside them. Dr. Amin is a noted parasitologist.

Please also look up skin infestations with Rotifera in Romania. You will find studies by an award-winning doctor.

You could also check with The National Institute of Mental Health and see how many new cases of “delusional parasitosis”: they are getting; many
people with this disease are wrongly being told that they are delusional.

Fox TV ran a show entitled, “Mystery Disease,” when a New Hampshire doctor got in touch with them about a patient of his who had received
detestable medical treatment from other doctors.

You might also check on Oakville, Washington where it supposedly rained jellyfish blown up by the navy for weeks, a substance which contained human
DNA.

Are we really expected to believe that thousands of people, in all walks of life, in all parts of the country, are suffering from the same delusion
and mutilating their skin into the exact same lesions somehow? Are we to believe that all of these people are finding a way to cause themselves
chronic diarrhea, visual deterioration, neurological problems, hair loss and more? Are we to believe that these people, some of whom are medical
professionals, legal professionals and scientists themselves, are also doing this to their kids and their pets? Are we to believe that they are also
finding a way to infest their own food and water with living organisms that only they know about, as no “expert” or doctor seems to be able to
identify them?

I have had this disease for years. So have my cold-blooded and warm-blooded pets; they did not cause this but many of them have died from it.
Veterinarians cannot identify it. Reptile vets and experts cannot identify it. . . "

-->" . . . When you have something wrong with you, you go to a doctor and you hope that he will give you a pill or a cream and you will go home,
cured.

But that is not the case. You are tired, you do not know why..you can't think straight and you imagine you are getting Alzheimer.

When you have this disease you go to a doctor and he tells you that you are doing this to yourself and that you are crazy. That hurts more than you
could ever imagine. Most of us never go to doctors..never did until this struck us down.

You know you are not doing this to yourself but no doctor will listen. You try to prove your sanity by bringing in samples and trying to show the
medical community what you are experiencing, even though you know it looks and sounds weird..but they are healers right???? And they look at you like
you have three heads and all of them are ugly.

You were never really sick before or had your life depending on them but now you are needy and scared and you need them and they turn on you and call
you crazy and tell you that you are making it up and doing it to yourself. "Doctor, do no harm" becomes a joke.

So you feel alone, desperate, and your ego is crushed because you have gross looking lesions that will not heal all over you body in places where
people can see them and stare at them and some itch and you can not get any sleep and you notice that people itch when they are near you and being a
good person you do not want to infect anyone and you isolate yourself and you give up hugging people.

Most people I talk to are the ones that others had gone to for support. For the first time in their lives they need others and NO ONE is there. It is
an awakening experience. It saddens your heart and you plunge into depression. Have I been so blind all my life to think that I had friends and family
that actually cared about me?

You decide to be an activist..no more sitting around crying for yourself, so you get a microscope. YOU SEE the fibers in your wounds..you see the
little round black poops in your skin and the smokey cylinder things that look like hairs yet are not....YOU SEE THEM AND REJOICE cuz if you see them
so will the doctors and that support group you thought you had that just headed for the hills ..now will come back and apologize......you can call
them back now cuz you have PROOF!

Yet you can not get anyone to believe. No one will even take a look. No one cares.

You are too tired to work, but have a mortgage to pay. You are depressed because you feel that you are alone in this world and lost in your personal
twilight zone and you actually go through the stages of accepting the death of the old you. (Not realizing there is a birth of a stronger you on the
horizon.)

This includes anger. You get angry. At everyone and everything! You try to make your world make sense. Since no one will help you, you will help
yourself by becoming SMART! You search the Internet day and night for anything that will help you make sense of it all. You build up volumes of
information and know more about nothing than anyone else you know.

Then there are the opportunist that say they can help you for thousands of dollars. That they have a cure, that they have a VIDEO, that they know what
it is but are not telling you..and you get really mad!

And in my case, you try to warn people of these people. But no one listens..they just pick on you and tell you that you are nasty and cruel and the
world gets a bit crazier. These are suppose to be you support group and they have turned on you and all you are doing is trying to help.

Have I died and gone to hell? So you give up trying to help..but it is your nature . . .

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