A federal appeals panel has upheld the 20 year sentence of a lolicon found to have received illustrations of underage sex by email, saying that “it is not a required that the minor depicted actually exists”, and so ruling art not to be universally protected free speech.

The court also insisted that purely textual email containing incest related material was not constitutionally protected free speech, and so also upheld his conviction on these grounds.

The man concerned (55), a resident of Richmond, Virginia, is serving a 20 year sentence after being convicted in 2005 of “receiving 20 Japanese cartoons, called anime, illustrating young girls being forced to have sex with men”, which he rather unwisely received using a public computer at the Virginia Employment Commission.

Additionally, he was found to have sent and received incest related emails of a purely textual nature, which were judged to be obscene and therefore not constitutionally protected free speech.

Clouding the issue further, the man apparently also received unambiguously illegal photographs of underage sexual conduct.

All this resulted in a jury convicting him of 74 offences, including receiving obscene materials, receiving obscene visual representations of underage sex, receiving child pornography and sending and receiving obscene emails. His sentence of 20 years was the maximum possible.

The notorious PROTECT Act of 2003, which permits arbitrarily stripping material of its First Amendment protections if it can be judged obscene according to the criteria of the Miller Test, was instrumental in securing these convictions; in fact this represents the first successful conviction under it.

In his appeal against the convictions, he claimed that the illustrations were protected by the First Amendment, as they do not depict real children. He also claimed the PROTECT Act was unconstitutional as textual emails cannot be considered obscene.

The judges would have none of it, holding that the act was made for the protection of imaginary children:

“It is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exists.”

One of the three judges did accept his arguments, though this had no impact on the majority ruling. The convictions for the photographs did not come into question.

The man intends to continue elevating the appeal, to the Supreme Court if necessary, in order to get the relevant parts of his conviction quashed.

It is not his first brush with the law: in 1999 he was sentenced to nearly four years for possessing pornography depicting minors, so clearly he is not the most charismatic appellant.

The PROTECT Act of late seems to be coming to the fore in relation to cases involving loli manga; there is also the recent case of an Iowa man facing similar convictions, although in his case without any real imagery involved.

Given that so much anime and manga, both mainstream and erotic, revolves around sexual situations involving participants clearly under what US law would regard as a legal age for such depictions to not constitute child pornography, just how much of mainstream anime and manga, to say nothing of actual pornography, will eventually come under the remit of such laws should they go unchecked?

With lower courts and national politicians gleefully stripping both speech and art of Constitutional protections using the evils of underage sex as a lever, we have to wonder whether the Supreme Court will actually rectify matters at some point?

254 Comments

how do you really know the person is really underage. I read this article were they convicted a person for procession of child porn. The porn star looked like a 14 year old but she was 19 at the time. the released him after she testified with her documents of her age. he spent 2 month of a 20 year jail sentence.

how can the age of a drawing be determined. My girlfriend is 19 and consistently says, “I wish I didn’t look like I was 12.” She has been offered the kids menu at restaurants before when she can legally buy cigarettes :P.

I just don’t get why you can actually get arrested for having lolicon manga. I hear people get really angry with others for just saying they’ve seen it before. I’ve seen people threaten to call the police just for saying “My friend has some.” I just don’t get it.

Dude just chill authority figures will always come by this because they want to protect children from future you know who’s. In retrospect it’s illegal in almost every country I think because of the protection, but that doesn’t mean we can’t continue to read those types of manga in the comfort of our own home. Not like we otakus are going to do anything bad right? So I guess enjoy it while it lasts =).

“It is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exists.”

So then I guess the great majority of the art world are murderers and hardened criminals. Then shouldn’t Edgar Allen Poe gets slapped with a animal cruelty and Sir Aurthur Conan Doyle gets hit with federal drug charges?

BTW dear moral fags since this guy can be jailed for up to 20 years have any idea how much this will cost tax payers?
Since more fags typically have the glial cell count of a lemur and thus are incapable of counting I’ll do the math for any reading this on average a year in the pen is $21,000 to $36,000 USD.

That’s $420,000 to $720,000 USD it will cost tax payers to punish this person for the horrible crimes of offending your morals and god.

I’m sure no one is reading this thread any more but I just thought I’d point out the average sentence for actual molestation of minors–you know, using your real parts on real kids–runs about 7 years, unless it is pretty egregious. Out on parole after 3 is not uncommon.
So the solution here is simple–don’t download loli hentai, get out there and go after some real kids and save yourself some jail time!

This is Beyond lame, and I really hope the law gets struck down in the supreme court, the maw is there to protect real children, not imaginary ones, and by making imaginary ones illegal, you would think it might instead end up causing them to go after real children.

While otakus watching loli get arrested, REAL pedophiles get to out of court free! Isn’t that great! We now get to see what was once America get swirled down a FUCKING TOILET!! SON OF A BITCH!
GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

first of all you are all pedophiles. you may say you arent and you state you never touch kids well what do you think lolicon is. its created after child porn was banned in japan. its a way of giving pedophiles what they want. get it? they look like kids and are small compared to the men that rape them. its sick,. its legal way of getting your child porn with out going to jail. and its a cowardly thing to do. you pedophiles are sick and twisted. hiding behind art please you dont know anything about art(art major here). you get off by looking at a toon that looks physically like a child and that makes you a pedophile. get it. admit it already. lolicon equals child porn. and what about toddlercon is that acceptable too are you not sick fucks because they are toons. you are sick and no child porn is okay. junior idols are also not okay. you fucking bastards. pedophilia is nasty and you are all pedophiles.

What. The. Hell.
…
……
There goes the first amendment. FWOOOOOOOOOOOoo-
Look. Most of the people on this site are not interested in Pedophilia. I will sum this up in three words.
Freedom. Of. Speech.
The explanation of the words: In this world of ULTRA SOFT BUNNYZ, it is hard to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. So they eliminate your freedom of media depiction. Anime is not real. Lolicon is not real. You are not a child defender. You are a nutjob. Learn to spell, use capitalization, and stop trying to be a troll. I am sick of hypocrisy, good sir. Shut The Fuck Up and Get The Fuck Out.

Oh, and does playing a violent video game make you a psychopath? I didn’t think so.

I suppose no one has replied to you because feeding the trolls is wrong, but I’m tempted (even though I don’t even like lolis, lol) so…

OK, so what if they’re disgusting and wrong to you? So what if they DO have mental problems? (I’m not saying lolicons are/do, this is hypothetical). A lot of people who aren’t lolicons/pedophiles have the same problem. Millions. Some people have imaginary friends, some people pick their nose. Hell, I think it’s nasty that there’s millions of people who wipe their ass instead of wash it. Should they all be prosecuted just because you and others like you deem them as unfit? They aren’t doing anything wrong to you, anyone else, or actual minors, so the only reason you have is that you think they’re nasty or messed in the head… which aren’t very good reasons.

BTW, I’ve seen people here admit that they’re pedos, if that’s all you’re after. But that doesn’t mean they’re molesters/rapists or that they have/will do harm to any minors. They understand what the word means, unlike most people.

fucking retards, those judges must be jews!
I have tons of lolicon manga, and I share it all over the nets!
catch me fuckers! they are fucking cartoons, idiots, try to judge some criminals and stop losing time with non sense problems

“It is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exists.”

So they’re essentially saying that there does not need to be a victim for a crime to have taken place. One can be a murder without having killed anybody, and a rapist without having touched anyone. Welcome to the wonderful world of thought crimes, where it doesn’t matter if you did any harm; it’s enough if you had a wrong thought.

Otaku: Doesn’t my figure Haruhi look hawt and cute?
UNICEF: So you want to marry her? You’re sick, she’s NOT even real.
Otaku: *Accidentally revealed his loli collections*
UNICEF: What are these!!? These are Child Pornographies!!
Otaku: No, they’re just imaginary and they have nothing to do with any real children..
UNICEF: We have to arrest you. These are as REAL as Child Pornographies, even if the victims don’t exist at all!!

Narcissist, you’re quite obviously not better than anyone, except maybe your average retard, but I still have more respect for them than you. They’re not amazingly ingnorant/racist, afterall.

By the way, if you’re gonna try to be racist to me (and I couldn’t care less), you’re gonna have to take a guess at where I’m from. It’s not America, either.

Back on topic; even though I quite clearly hate what they’ve done (if I didn’t, I wouldn’t be on this site), you have to realise that what they did isn’t stupid. People tend to be scared of the unknown, and since I really doubt they’ve ever looked at Loli, they have no idea how it really is. The reason this guy is in jail is most likely because they were afraid that if they let him go, he’d just eventually become a pedo. As well as making them look bad, they most likely didn’t want someone to actually become a victim of this. And since a lot of people here are racist idiots who don’t understand other cultures, Loli isn’t accepted everywhere. So it’s accepted in Japan? Big deal. Why should other countries change their views if they dislike something just because a few people in their country like it?

Any criminalisation of purely fictional material is disgusting, fascist bullshit. The only reason they are getting away with this is because most people go through life wearing blinders, preventing them from seeing what’s right next to them.
Maybe you find loli hentai icky, but plenty of people share the same views about games like GTA, or COD. Should they also be locked up because innocent fictional people were harmed?

It’s absolutely anti-thesis to everything a liberal, free society should be. You people pointing and sneering are the stupidest of all, because you dumb fucks think you are safe because the otaku community considers your porn of choice adult. I guarantee you that the moral witch-hunters don’t, they will tar you will the pedophile label and have you put in jail for life quicker than you can fucking blink.

They love the power they have, and they won’t stop as long as they still garner support from the ‘missionary position with the light off’ shitheads.

it is probable that he brought forth his arguement under the wrong section of the law …therefore they don’t deem the fact that the child ‘does not exist, as relavent to his argument of free speech…he needs to take this statement , by the judges , as a hint as to ‘HOW TO APPROACH AND HOW HAS ‘ his rights been CONSTITUTIONALLY violated when he APPEALS to a HIGHER court , but it still doesn’t justify the idiotic statement by the court , defending the protection of IMAGINARY CHILDREN..

I’m not the most law-minded American citizen, but since when is obscenity illegal? If you’re legitimately harming someone, that’s one thing, but if it’s just words and [drawn] images being passed between consenting adults, then where’s the harm? If you prohibit the creation, existence, or willing possession of such material, then you’re prohibiting thought itself.

A lesser nation… let me think… China? Cuba? Or some other country where legal system is not a joke, but a fantasy? Countries where you would get your ass in jail before you know that you can defend yourself in court? Or countries where the legal system is so corrupted when you can get away with murder”s”, not to mention pedophilia… I think people in America is very lucky. It’s not propaganda, since most of you complaining about America’s legal system clearly have not lived in the other parts of the world, where people are actually starving, new vocab guys! STARVE!!!

If imaginary loli has human rights, does that mean they’re considered actual people too?

I mean, how long before some ronery individual (ex: otaku) adds two and two and actually goes out to get matching wedding bands for himself and his favorite anime/manga/eroge character? Blood tests? Invitations for the ceremony? Joint checking accounts? You see where I’m taking this? How far does the stupidity go?

If the judge’s argument is that there is no requirements for the minor to exist, then who is the one being protected as the result of the conviction? Wouldn’t that be a contradiction?

If any anime enthusiast is arrested, I think it is best if Anonymous made a go at the supreme court rather than Scientology.

I actually thing that the real reason why lolicon possession is still viewed as a “serious” offence is because the old judges probably never owned a computer or understood the internet. Keyword: old ignorant people. They really need to lurk moar to be less ignorant of the fact that millions of anime enthusiasts had at least seen, viewed, or possessed lolicon material. (That, and those who viewed would still be charged as a result of forensic hard drive investigations).

Younger kids and mainstream audiences who are regulars to the internet would have agreed that 20 years is too much; if possession of lolicon is the only charge. We need to keep up with the times. If the law fails to keep up with current ideals, then it is a failed legal system. It has failed the requirement for social progress.

I swear…. when are people going to realize that there is nothing wrong with lolicon or even pedosexuality. When their children start killing them in order to protect their lovers, as was done back in the day?

It’s kind of the same with detective/mystery novels, TV shows, movies, etc. The genre commonly depicts illegal acts (ex: rape, murder, ransom, and so on…) The events are clearly fictional and would be no different to other published media with similar content (illegal activity).

“Virtual CP remained under the protection of the First Amendment, except when it was offered or solicited under the mistaken impression that actual children were depicted.”

Unless you can get an obscenity conviction which is purely local. An obscenity conviction only makes the specific materials the jury found to be “obscene” illegal. The obscenity standard was also not designed for use in possession cases, but rather for shutting down local shops. Also, due to the very “local” nature of obscenity laws and the Supreme Court’s previous decisions.. the internet should be immune to obscenity laws unless material was also being distributed on physical media. As it would be unfair to force the most conservative community’s views on the entire internet.

Also, it doesn’t matter what else this man has been convicted of in the past, the Supreme Court doesn’t care. This one is definitely going to get overturned by the US Supreme Court. Simply read their previous three rulings on the matter…

As I wrote in the Iowan article, while that’s a freedom of speech thing, it’s more a problem of the post office not following due process of law to get what they needed to also search his house for this stuff.

I Still find it very difficult to imagine how a package of…7 volumes I believe, could in anyway, shape or form render itself to probable cause for a search warrant. This is the case to harp on freedom of speech because he has nothing else to defend himself with.

What defensive pedophile comments? It’s common sense. It’s about stupidity and logic. Example of stupity thinking. How gangs fight over land that doesn’t even belong to them. Yet they fight over it like if they die their children will inherit it and be able to sell it off.

You better not be playing a violent video game because that makes you a murderer.

“It is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exists.”

*drawing away*

Wait… What was that?

So if I draw this girl who looks roughly underage, being attacked, no wait, being raped by a penis, no wait, let’s make that a tentacle monster in which afterwards she gets torn apart – I’ll get sent to jail?

Yeah, the defendant is gonna appeal it. If that doesn’t work he’s going back to the SC with it. We been talking about this an another case over here. The only problem with this case is that the guy had real porn as well. He already had been convicted before on it too.

Okie, If that’s the case then anyone with dvd’s of killings and rape scenes must go to jail. You sick murderer. How dare you be part of a murder or rape and not report it. Didn’t you think of the characters feelings as she/he was getting killed or raped? You sick F–k!!

Anyone with movies of drug use must also go to jail. That’s right you drug user you. You are possessing imaginary drugs and according to this ruling you have to go to jail for having such drugs.

America’s image of stupidity seems to be increasing ever more so, especially the legal system (becoming more bias and opinonated, seeing it as fact…like FOX News and CNN). The education system is also lower than that of other developed countries, specifically state owned schools (hurray for documentaries). Fair enough if he gets jail time for possessing the real stuff. But by gods 20yrs for non-existant characters. That has to be one of the most naive and ignorant reasons to give, and as many people have caught on (even a child would), by that logic I would be considered a mass murderer for playing GTA.

A more contradictory e.g. Rape (Sleeping or Drunk) in Porn, even though the participants do exist and acting, fact that they used Rape as medium in porn must mean they themselves should be jailed and anyone who watched should be jailed too…Guess that also makes me a Tentacle Rape Moster by watching Tentacle Rape in Hentai(?) I don’t remember growing multiple phallic like tentacles (¬_¬) *looks down* nope.

Ever since the Bush years, the U.S has gone downhill in common sense and logic. As one of my sayings goes though ‘The world maybe getting smarter over the years, but we might aswell throw wisdom and logic out the dictionary’.

“The education system is also lower than that of other developed countries, specifically state owned schools (hurray for documentaries).”

True. If the government didn’t funnel so much damn money out of the educational system and into OTHER ventures (The Iraq Moneypit, Afghan-rug-istan, and all their shiny new ‘toys’), then MAYBE we’d see improvement. Maybe. The educational system has been lax due to laziness and complacency also. Our so called ‘American Superiority and Hegemony’. Bullshit, plain and simple.

I’d be willing to bet that if this makes it to the supreme court that some portions of his conviction will overturned. Most likely being the “obscene” e-mails.

You have to consider the fact that federal judges are political appointees. I doubt any of them would risk there job to defend this guy. That’s why we have the supreme court. Whom, btw have a history of overturning laws such as the protect act.

True, most likely the Supreme Court will overturn the emails, I’m hoping that they will also overturn the drawn chi….caek convictions too, which is probably where the vast majority of his jail time was sentenced to him from, if the Iowan man’s plight is any indication.

It’s probably going to take more people going to jail before the government becomes overzealous in their application of the PROTECT Act of 2003 to spark a supreme court to once again address this issue. Stock up on the material and do not accept or send pics to individuals you do not know.

He’s still a fucking idiot for accessing lolicon porn on a public computer. Hell, porn in general, but he’s even more stupid for doing something illegal on a monitored computer. That kind of dumbfuckery is worth at least five years.

Still, with that said, twenty years for possessing lewdly drawn images depicted as children is absolutely ridiculous. Maybe he got the maximum sentence because he possessed what seems to be real child porn in 99, so I’m sure they used the argument that lolicon is a gateway to real pedophilia, despite the fact that 3D is pig disgusting.

the main reason and truly only is that if you are good anuf at the game of the system or happen to be really rich to begin with to do so to have any say you whant above others below yourself in the system so that is why its called the most free?
well because of this i dont think america well be this way for long if who ever that have the most controle or money says it to be other wise leaving there self and whoever else that is placed blow that indavisual superieur well thats just how it is

Thats exactly it! Fascism! Everyone always jumps to socialism or commmunism, which are technically more free than we capitalists are in theory. The problem with Communism is that, while perfect in theory, human nature keeps it from succeeding, because theories are treacherous things that dissolve faster than a biscuit raft.

The biggest problem you don’t seem to realize is, everyone is not equal in a socialist state. Most especially the ones that control the money, do you honestly think that they wouldn’t make money dissapear into their own pockets as opposed to, key word here, giving it back to it’s citizens that earned it? Fascism at least isn’t ashamed and abashed at what it does to the point of making it seem to smell better than dead sewer rats.

Indeed. Not only do you have this crappy excuse of a law screwing over a “lolicon,” you got Mr. Handley of Iowa getting charged for obscenity just because someone in customs at the post office thought some guys in yaoi manga in “certain acts” looked like they were under 18! There are two ways to stop this B.S. is 1) support the CBLDF and/or mosh on D.C. and demand that these laws be rewritten or every single one of these people in Congress who would dare to defend this “PROTECT Act” as it stands be recalled, and the FCC be reformed.

Well well well soon in America thinking will be forbidden too Americans must really start thinking about what future holds for them they will become slaves ripped from the freedom of thinking wtf its just like some kind of movie people getting forced to think as the government want them to think.

I’m pretty sure from the article on here that it’s both, as it doesn’t seem like he’s disputing the rl pictures, in any case, is it my imagination, or are the people that have rl pics and rape rl children getting far less jail time than this?

I don’t really get how the Protect Act really protects children. What exactly are we protecting when we spend absurd amounts of money prosecuting a guy (not this guy but the Iowan man) for having some hand-drawn gay porn. When this money can be spent on nabbing real criminals. No offense to Australians but I think the US is coming close to eclipsing them in terms if idiot criminal cases, if you can even call them that.

You’re making the assumption that laws in the US actually follow LOGIC. This must be corrected immediately. Laws are exempt from LOGIC, therefore can be as inconsistent and idiotic as the lawmakers themselves.

What the Protect Act is really protecting is the ability of the police to make arrests, the ability of prosecutors to prosecute, the ability of judges to preside over trials, and the need for jails to incarcerate the guilty. The “justice” system needs bodies in order to continue to exist.

It also protects politicians ability to get re-elected by parents who rabidly foam at the mouth by any reminder that their precious children actually possess genitals.

People have always had sex once they went through puberty and thus stopped being children.
It’s not new.
In the past young females of childbearing age were married off to Men.
Today such Men are caged or killed (and you applaud).

seriously, as much as i’d bash about idiotic law enforcement in certain us states (or the us and a overall), this kind of thing is a sad reality in many countries. and as much as i support the cause of unicef and similar organisations, part of the blame can go to them.
japan seems to be a little bit more sane, but they have their own problems with porn law. what other country considers plain uncensored sex obscene, but the most perverse scat/sm/shota is ok as long as it has bokashi?

IF you’re referring to intelligence then yes, but it’s a little different then killing cops or buying hookers in GTA IV. I mean heck most of the people who buy GTA do it so they can do rampages in which to see how long they can kill cops. In Halo, the caste system of the Covenant is a bit different than the Humans and something like the Hunters, moving tanks, is pretty hard to imagine as a human, especially when they are rushing you destroying everything in their way.

Anyone with a computer could download dozens of illegal pictures freely in minutes; or he could use that time to go out and rape a real woman in an alley. In this case, the latter would have been a lot cheaper.

And no, having pornography doesn’t promote aggressions against children, unless the guy is paying someone else to provide him with the material. This is not like drug use, where everyone consuming is directly supporting illegal acts.

Especially that considering Goatse et al. it is quite easy to accidentally access pornography on the internets. I’ve known people who linked random words in their posts to (tinyurl-obfuscated) pedo sites.

“Now” as in referring to the present time. The last time I checked there are no books currently banned in the United States. There have been in the past, but well, the past isn’t the present is it?

It seems that recently we’ve considered all types of literature to be art and thus free speech. For example, you can go check out 120 Days of Sodom at a library. If anything is to be considered obscene, that is. I don’t think that I would miss it very much, but I’m sure that it will disappear soon enough if things keep going in this direction.

PROTIP: A school district banning a book and the US government banning a book are not the same thing. Of course there’s going to be books not allowed in school, it’s a fucking school. Public education gets uppity over everything.

So by the logic, wouldn’t a barbie doll, which is a toy, be considered obscene? I mean, you can take all of her clothes off! Granted, nipples aren’t drawn on her breasts and she her lower parts aren’t too realistic, but I’m sure some judge could just as easily claim it to be obscene. Next time I’m in the US and I see a six year old changing her barbie’s clothes in public, I’m suing.

wtf is ‘obscene’ anyways. Clearly because people watch this stuff and like it and while others don’t that means this shit is relative. So what, are courts just ruling for the majorities preference a fucking usual or do they actually intend on protecting vurlnerable REAL children from sexual assualts. What really pisses me off is that they completly ignored the real offence in my eyes, the phots of REAL CHILDREN and instead bashed him over the pictures of IMAGINARY CHILDREN, because he obviously caused them the most pain and distress, and oh god, he might RE-OFFEND

And im not bashing America, all justice systems are like this nowadays; corrupt, fallible and painfully HUMAN

you forgot that one of most important point of why despite America being such a shit country it still survived is because it continues to contradict itself; it prevents massive progress like some other countries could, but it works.

…And I’m going into nonsense here, don’t mind about me, that was one of my thesis, ignore it if you don’t agree with it.

I just wanted to point out that whenever these topics show up this place feels just like 2ch.

I agree with sentencing him for the children pornographic photographs he possessed, but having written material on “obscene” topics such as incest and such is going a bit too far… I mean, especially since it’s in the form of e-mails (unless he was relaying such compositions to minors/children and such).

As for the manga/anime/art thing… Idk, kinda going too far, protecting “imaginary” children, don’t you think? Next thing you know, we’ll be protecting “imaginary people” from getting “murdered” and all people who play fps will be potentially charged with “virtual murder”… hehehe funny though.

America is a sick country, focused on Japanese lolicon magazines, which hurt no one anywhere on earth, not a single child anywhere, yet give lots of innocent pleasure to many men. Let’s be honest — it is that pleasure that the legislators are trying to stop.

Yes, that’s what this is all about. 20 years of feminist maniac American sickness aimed at cutting all men’s pleasure to nothing, so that they can dominate people everywhere and all we are left with are wierd pseudo-women like Angelina Tatoo Jolie. Disgusting hag is what she is. Sick.

This guy was stupid to download these pictures on a government computer. But people should rise up and hold a huge middle finger to the damned US Feminists and their anti-child-porn mania, which has gone way, way overboard. When it gets so far that even simple drawings are considered unprotected speech, yet websites and TV shows full of dirt and hate can go on untouched, then the American value system must be stopped.

America is not the country it once was, when honor and values mattered. Sex was for the bedroom, and what didn’t hurt anybody was left alone where it should be. It should not be for the legislative agenda of American Feminazi’s bent on cutting men’s penises off in hatred and anger. This guy was an idiot, but the bigger question of America’s Leftist value system and the rest of the world is something we all should be worried about.

>HURR DURR MAH PART OF THE WORLD IS THE BEST EVERYWHERE ELSE CAN CHOKE ON A DICK.

>HURR THE GOVERNMENT OF A COUNTRY IS ALWAYS A TRUE REPRESENTATION OF ITS PEOPLE.

“Stupid fat american fucks. Just shows how intelligent they are, going against their own constitution which is supposed to make them the “most free” country in the world”

Yes, yes ad hominem because it makes you right.

Please enlighten me as to where you heard the phrase “most free”.
A government trying to gain as much power as possible is natural. It is up to the people to make sure that this does not happen and right now we the American people are doing a suck-ass job at it.

>Now let us walk towards a bright future with Europe as the stronghold for humanity once again

OH GOD, REALLY ARE YOU SERIOUS? GOD I HAVEN’T LOL’D SO HARD IN MY LIFE!

Enjoy your shithole of a continent with Muslims taking over.

Also it’s amazing how obvious of an underage little faggot you are. You really had me going until the >BAWW I WOULD COMMIT SUICIDE comment.
I don’t believe you live in Europe anyway enjoy America you little shit.

that’s kind of sad and retarded, its unfortunate that some people actually believe that kind of bravado. honestly anyone with that kind of feeling to a single nation or continent is outright ignorant and brainwashed. its very depressing when someone cant support the world as a whole that they begin to feel their own little rock is far more important than the rest of the rocks floating out in the ocean.

The avatars changing for each new post is incorrect, or the system is not working, because I’ve posted only a couple of times in this long ass strand, and it’s been the blue design, just like the others. Perhaps it means we’re all on the west coast, or it’s just totally meaningless.

Do you not know what a narcissist is lol? How could I commit suicide when I deem myself a superior being compared to you?

I always write exactly what I think. No trolling here, like Mr. Anonymous which strangly enough all have the blue version of the standard avatar. I thought it was programmed to change color and shape after each post…Do I smell a one-man show?

And yet again, regarding the country/continent superiority…does people have zero common knowledge these days, since the matter of narcissism seems to yet again be unknow. Ah I forgot, uneducated anon with blue avatar… lulz

Now let us walk towards a bright future with Europe as the stronghold for humanity once again, colonizing the lesser people, and Sweden as heads of European Union the second half of 2009. Btw, why the hell did we let in the damn Czech in EU lol? Must be some kind of serious mistake.

If every nation capable of engaging nuclear war decided to use their weapons, the entirety of humanity would eventually(but inevitably) die out. SO to those that propose such an action remember this,if it does happen, the earth will die.

This whole thread just shows the difference between ignorant and knowledgeable people. Everyone made some kind of good point. Of course none of these points can be perfectly clear. Like Miroku said, its ran by people. If such a system were perfect anywhere, then everyone would have the same point of view. Has anyone noticed the difference between the facts brought to the table (such as what Artefact said), and the bashing/trolling here? Don’t bash any nation unless you can back up your statements without stating the obvious. Why is it that we are different countries? If things worked out perfectly, it would be one nation (world) together. Dammit I sound like a fucking hippy… But you get my point.

[quote]Now if we only can get America, Russia, China, Africa and all the islam dominated countries to start waging nuclear war so they extinct each other. That would be perfect for Europe and Japan.[/quote]

if someday it happen, remember, that NATO is “Military alliance of democratic states in Europe and North America.” and that japan have american military bases. so if you wish destruction of Russia and America, be sure, it s gonna be world’s most horrible conflict in history. and no one gonna survive it.

Actually, America is by far the most enlightened nation in these matters, and one I have a great deal of respect for (though of course it still flawed). Lesser nations do not have even the semblance of a supreme court to protect against the excesses of the state…

Not just a stupid side, but power hungry, these people are out to take all of our rights away, plain and simple. They’ve made inroads on the Right to Bear Arms by LICENSING any weapons that would be remotely usable for killing/destroying anything more dangerous than wild animals, which I feel the need to point out that the Constitution calls us to fight “all enemies, foreign and [b]domestic[/b]”, do you think that George Washington and co. thought that we would need a well armed Militia to fight the likes of Osama bin Laden (and yes I’m not forgetting that we haven’t made serious attempts at doing something about him)?

While the licensing is a far cry from the all out ban Japan has had for centuries, and the gun bans in various parts of the EU and Australia, it is one of the few things that still make America great. Oh lets not forget that Felons automatically have their gun rights stripped from them, and nowhere in the Constitution does it give a provision for such a thing. Why would they, when they themselves were “criminals”, rebelling against England.

BY THE WAY, not really disagreeing with Americans look stupid from either side of the coin, but you find that everywhere as Artefact has made allusions to in previous posts on other articles.

“Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
By the way sorry for the long posts, some reason when I don’t just type lulz, it turns into an essay of sorts.

The need to put down another country in order to assert your own cou- *continent’s* superiority is a very clear sign of insecurity. Is there something wrong with Europe that you feel you need to compensate for? Blind patriotism is never a good thing, you know.

Stupid fat american fucks. Just shows how intelligent they are, going against their own constitution which is supposed to make them the “most free” country in the world. Pure bullshit of course. The only use they have is to serve as soldiers to more civilized countries.

Now if we only can get America, Russia, China, Africa and all the islam dominated countries to start waging nuclear war so they extinct each other. That would be perfect for Europe and Japan.

Lol@20 years btw, I would rather commit suicide than spend 1 year in jail. Of course I would kill as many involved as possible before doing it.