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07 September 2013

First Fight back ?

It seems we should know all on Monday when First announce their route changes but from what I have gathered talking to a couple of drivers, and some of the comments left on the site we could well see the following:

Service 6 we know is withdrawn and looks like its to be replaced by changes to the 2 in some way. Service 7 also withdrawn somehow replaced in part by changes to the 93.

Service 3 is an interesting one. It does indeed seem that they are withdrawing from Barne Barton. There has been a lot of suggestions that the route instead will be extended up through Higher St Budeaux to West Park and Honicknowle.

Service 4 believed to be just a timetable change – nothing major

Service 5 we know is being withdrawn with no replacement.

Service 15 – clearly being extended up to Roborough and possibly into Woolwell. Will no longer serve Mainstone / Asda.

Service 83 etc Tavistock. Rumours suggest that First are going to concentrate on the direct service in much the same way at Citybus. It has been suggested that this will mean no more direct buses to Derriford Hospital apart from a few peak runs. This is probably the reason behind the 15 extension as it could then serve as a connecting service to Derriford. Either that or they could offer through tickets on the Park & Ride service run by Target?

Service X80 X81 are withdrawn.

New service 6 to serve Laira / Efford. Still seems an odd choice to me though.

Still no sign of FDC new routes/timetables.... If First can get this right this could go well for them in Plymouth whilst PCB are concentrating on their jollies to Tavistock. First were stuck in a rutt with the same services sticking with their old areas, i.e plymstock and the X80 and ignoring new opportunities in Plymouth... PCB could have done them a favour here by forcing their hand to react. This is not going to be the one horse race many people think... FIRST will get their own back here and PCB along with GA shareholders will regret this move! Heads will roll at Milehouse I feel.

re the new number 6 also being known as the "purple" route ... I wonder if what we will see is the purple TavyLinx B6s come off the Tavistock route and be used on the new 6 with the leather seated Enviro 400s off the X80/1 going onto the Tavistock route (along with other deckers ?)

I *think* First will be limited to only being able to use Darts and newer deckers on the new purple 6 route. The issue is the junction at the bottom of Efford Lane which has a very deep camber and a steep gradient. Only flat floor buses in conjunction with ferry lifts are able to get round that corner without driving up on the pavement or deploying sand bags under the wheels! I might be wrong, but I don't think the B6's would be able to physically work this route. Even if they do put B6's on it, the timetable difference with PCB is going to be pretty significant.

If First is serious about hitting PCB with some tough competition in Efford, I think some re-painted S-reg darts or maybe even Enviro 400s would be a far more sensible choice, from the current fleet. Unless First plan to bring some older but more suitable vehicles into the Plymouth fleet? They've tried before with B7RLE's and B10BLE's, but for whatever reason they got sent back to Bristol again:http://www.plymothiantransit.com/2012/05/outgoing-incoming.html

I am pretty sure that the buses on the new 6 Purple will be the former Tavy Linx purple B6s. For branding its an easy win as the buses do still look smart on the outside at least. If Dennis Darts can manage the corner I cant see the B6s having any issues. Of course getting up the hill is a different matter!

The majority of the tailwind buses can not even manage the hill from manadon roundabout upto crownhill, they will NOT make it up the hill to efford!!! I'm guessing Alex Carter assumes all the buses are up to spec and well maintained when unfortunatly they ate not

Go Ahead, not like First, allow their Bus Companies to operate independently so they are NOT hiding behind the Citybus logo, Brighton and Hove is a prime example. They don't hate First, it's called competition.

I think First are playing there hand close to the chest & I don't think Plymouth is going to like it. They have done the same thing elsewhere in the uk, the companies are now Stagecoach or another company, i hope i am wrong.

This is not a one horse race.. i feel a serious competitive comeback on First with lower fares. PCB then have 2 choices ... to keep fares has they are and hope people will pay more to travel on their newer buses or retaliate with fare cuts and kiss goodbye to their profit. First on the otherhand don't make a profit in Plymouth anyhow so might use this to teach citybus a lesson

sounds a bit like someone else said before the last war look what happened to him. shame on you for wanting plymouth stitched up with high fares and nice people out of a job thats what will happen if pcb get the run of the city

I can't wait for the heads to roll at PCB. Wherever Go Ahead operates, they are aggressive towards their neighbours. PCB has much more to lose here than First- especially if First diverts some brand new deckers into the fleet at the same time as a fares reduction.

A few observations on the most recent comments:First have tried to make infiltrate PCB routes - Honicknowle, Estover, Ernesettle, Plympton, Mount Gould with limited success. For someone who lives in Tavistock I welcome the New vehicles that PCB will use rather than the sheds First use, combined with a simple timetable - get the reliability right and they could be onto a winner.

If First use the B6 on their new Efford route - good luck to them. Anyone using the service through Whitchurch will see the B6 struggle to get up the hill and onto the A386 at Whitchurch turn. Get your cameras ready at the bottom of Efford Lane!

Those with longer memories will remember the old MCW Atlanteans used on the 'new' 47 route up Efford Lane in the early 80s. A few years later they used brand new East Lancs Atlanteans - I can still remember the bus lurching round the corner!

Good to see continued investment by PCB rather than the cascaded sheds sent down by First.

That maybe the case but thanks to PCB/Go Aheads usual bully boy tactics the people of Whitchuch may well not have a bus at all, certainly not the shiny Citybuses anyway. Perhaps the people of Tavistock etc want to remember what company has supplied them with a regular service for the past 10 years (first/western national) a servcice that is much better than Go ahead provide to many estates in Plymouth I can tell you!

I think First are playing ther cards close until the last minute, I am sure there will be a big fight back.. even if they wanted to pull out of Plymouth, they will not be pushed out!!

Re Plymstock, this area is well over bussed, 13 an hour from First alone.. seems sensible to me to cut this back a bit and use resources to expand into other Citybus areas in the city rather than run empty in Plymstock!

Being sat upstairs, offside, at the front on those early Met Cam 47s was an experience! From memory, not only did it use Efford Lane, but also Eggbuckland Rd, Culver Way, Forder Valley Rd and Novorossisk Rd. Quite a route! Maybe the hilliest in the country at the time?

Being sat upstairs, offside, at the front on those early Met Cam 47s was an experience! From memory, not only did it use Efford Lane, but also Eggbuckland Rd, Culver Way, Forder Valley Rd and Novorossisk Rd. Quite a route! Maybe the hilliest in the country at the time?

i cant see first winning this bus war but i hope they cause serve damage to city bus and watch there managment go on the dole or move elesewere comon mr carter weave your magic and get us back were we belong

What a nasty little person you are. First have been running at a great loss in Plymouth and now have to stop the hemorrhaging of money from their Plymouth operations. If they were to withdraw from this area and nobody wanted to take over the operations what would happen to the customers who are left high and dry without a bus service? Far better an existing company puts in place a service that customers can use if that was to happen. CityBus (formally Plymouth City Transport) have been providing a service in Plymouth since the late 1800's well before Western National came to the City. I don't want to see anybody lose their jobs so think before you you say such nasty comments.

I don't know about anyone else who reads this blog but the repetitive pro-First and anti-Citybus comments from a few commentators (or possibly they're all from just one person?) are getting rather tedious. Let's wait and see what happens, no-one knows how any of the new services will pan out or which, if any, will be successful.

It certainly won't be as straight-forward as First winning the war simply by cutting fares and launching a raft of new routes, that's just fanciful pie-in-the-sky stuff and assumes that Citybus won't react which of course they will.

If First is serious, they need to do something new, bold, imaginative and different, er, like Citybus and Stagecoach have already announced.

First said last Friday that they would release details of their changes on Monday which they didn't do and still haven't done nearly a week later. Doesn't bode well, does it and smacks of the same old First lack of attention to detail, if you ask me.

I say all this as someone who really wants First to stay in Plymouth long-term but they've got themselves into the position they're now in and getting out of the hole they've made is a much, much, much bigger job in comparison to the job which Citybus has in starting a couple of new routes and protecting their existing ones. I fear that there's only going to be one winner in all of this.

I think you are joking..yes?? I would say the vast majority of comments here are always anti First and Pro Citybus. Perhaps the commentators you so nicely say are boring are just trying to even it up a little. It is worth noting that Firsts Devon ops have made a loss for years which the company as a whole as bank rolled...they are now putting it right. If Go Ahead wre to make a loss in Citybus would they hang around and keep providing loss making services in the same manner..I think not, so I say on that score perhaps First deserve a bit of praise and wish them luck in turning it around.

No, I'm not joking at all. If First can turn their Plymouth ops around, then good luck to them (and yes, I do wish them well).

The point is, it won't be anything like as simple to do as some posters here seem to think it will. Some fare cuts and new routes won't be enough, even if the new routes are a success and there can be no guarantee that they will be (First or Citybus routes). Citybus won't just sit back without taking action, in exactly the same way that I would expect First to look to strengthen their offerings in Torpoint and Tavistock. Either way, Citybus has the easier job however you look at things, especially given the fleet investment that the Go-Ahead board has authorised. Whether First can get hold of some new or nearly new buses as well, we shall see..... but it didn't help them last time around with Ugobus and all the nearly new E200s and B7RLEs soon went back up country again.

No mention of Laira in the details released so far. Looks like it's turn around at the bottom of Pike Road and go back up through Efford again? Perhaps they are extending to the Flyover roundabout so people can interchange onto Embankment road services?

"NEW Service 6 (City Centre - Efford): A brand new Service 6 route is being created which will provide journeys between the City Centre, Lipson Vale and Efford. Running every 15 minutes during the day (Monday - Saturday) buses will follow the same route in and out of the city, travelling via North Hill, Lipson Vale, Torridge Way and Pike Road in both directions. "