I had seen the Toronto Star article when it came out, and it's definitely worth reading. It does appear that the Israelis are a lot more focused on security that works, rather than security theater -- though I don't think any security system is foolproof. I do think that there's a lot to what Sela says at the end of the article as to why the TSA hasn't followed Israel's lead:

"We have a saying in Hebrew that it's much easier to look for a lost key under the light, than to look for the key where you actually lost it, because it's dark over there. That's exactly how (North American airport security officials) act," Sela said. "You can easily do what we do. You don't have to replace anything. You have to add just a little bit -- technology, training. But you have to completely change the way you go about doing airport security. And that is something that the bureaucrats have a problem with. They are very well enclosed in their own concept."

As for the question on "full body scans," while not mentioned in the article, it's worth noting that Israeli airport security apparently doesn't use such machines either. I saw an interview recently with an Israeli security expert, who said that using such machines (the ones that allow screeners to effectively see travelers naked) would create a much bigger mess, as traditional and religious men would become incredibly offended at screeners seeing their wives naked.

The key difference in the two systems is that the US (and most others) seem intent on scanning what you're bringing on the plane. The Israelis are a lot more interested in who you are and how you act.

Re:

Re:

Israel has just one big airport and local air travel is almost non-existent. The situation is far different is US. Also Israelis use profiling. As a brown man living in the US I feel uncomfortable in US starts using similar methods.

BTW, this whole thing is overblown. No matter what kind of security is used it is always possible to kill some people.

Re: Re:

Re: Re:

The trick is to use "behavioral profiling" (you act funny) vs. "racial profiling" (you look funny). Not sure how if the average TSA screener could distinguish the two though -- maybe we could do a buddy system between TSA and volunteer ACLU members.

Re: Re: Re:

this is exactly the point, and this is what works in Israel. I flew there several times last year with work and was questioned in detail every time - but in no more detail than I am anywhere else. I was surprised that I was never searched, and bypassed the bag screening every time... I look Arabic... my father is Indian, my mother white... and I have a muslim name. I can only assume that it was my behaviour that they were making decisions on, rather than my race...

Re:

my thoughts exactly, Mike

I've made multiple trips to and from Israel and they don't use full body scans. They will inspect your bag if they have a reason to, but other than that, at most they might wand someone down.

It's also of note that you don't have to take your shoes off or anything ridiculous, and that they have armed guards that actually know how to use the weapons they have (as most are military). Oh, and they don't have bad lines. I think I spent 10mins through getting the passport stamped and that was it.

Where do they even make up the screening stuff, too? When they check your luggage for further inspection is at a counter with you present, so that they can ask questions if necessary.

Re: my thoughts exactly, Mike

Re: Re: my thoughts exactly, Mike

article says "First, the screening area is surrounded by contoured, blast-proof glass that can contain the detonation of up to 100 kilos of plastic explosive. Only the few dozen people within the screening area need be removed, and only to a point a few metres away."

This doesn't happen in Israel. They also don't use Bomb Boxes, they have a chemical scanner built into the counter you walk up to and place your bag on (if they choose to scrutinize you). That's what they do for the first part.

My bags have been examined, and they are mega-full with stuff on my return trips, and you basically stand there while they inspect the bags with you and/or have you open your bag for them.

"As for the question on "full body scans," while not mentioned in the article, it's worth noting that Israeli airport security apparently doesn't use such machines either. I saw an interview recently with an Israeli security expert, who said that using such machines (the ones that allow screeners to effectively see travelers naked) would create a much bigger mess, as traditional and religious men would become incredibly offended at screeners seeing their wives naked. "

That will be "solved" by having gender segregated security. With female only staffers on the women's and men only on the men's.

Though it does remind of an aiport I once travelled through which had such segregating at the metal detector. They were so fed up with the women's one going off due to jewellry that they'd unplugged it.

I would add though that the "traditional men" will likely use their wives as the excuse but really are just terrified of having their own unmentionables oggled by the poor screener.

DRM

Maybe they are taking notes from the IP industry's zealous nature regarding DRM, which only serves to inconvenience honest people while doing little to nothing to stop the actual people they are trying to stop.

This type of if-it-is-a-hassle-then-it-must-be-working thinking rears its head anytime the solution to a problem is of the knee jerk variety. We, the public in general, are partly to blame; If our leaders said that they needed a few weeks to decide how best to handle the situation, the public would jump down their collective throats demanding immediate action. Hence, body-scanners, no standing the last hour of flights and nothing in your lap for that last hour, as well. (Terrorist time-out?)

I dread the day a terrorist decides the best place to hide an IED is in his butt.

Different situation

"The key difference in the two systems is that the US (and most others) seem intent on scanning what you're bringing on the plane. The Israelis are a lot more interested in who you are and how you act."

That sounds good in theory. The difference is that, in Israel, terrorism is a lot more focused. That is, they really only have a few specific groups to screen for because they know where terrorism is going to come from. In the US, that is not true at all. People forget that, prior to 9/11, the largest terrorist act in our country was perpetrated by a white, middle-aged, ex-military male American citizen with a spotless criminal and military record. He was, by most external, objective standards, a "model" citizen. Scanning for "who you are and how you act" would have done nothing to stop Timothy McVeigh had he chosen to use a plane instead of a Ryder truck.

Likewise, the latest attempted bomber was not Middle-Eastern, but Nigerian, not exactly our top expectation. Sure, he was Taliban, but how would airport security know that ahead of time? The fact is, the Israeli approach is subjective, and it works because they can screen for a pretty limited profile. In the US, we have to be a bit more objective, both for constitutional reasons, and because, frankly, there are a lot more people who dislike us, even occasionally our own citizens.

Re: Different situation

McVeigh would have had a hell of a time getting a truck-load of manure on a plane, I'll wager. :)

The Nigerian was on a terrorist watch list, was he not? The only bigger red flag would be if he was holding a over-sized cartoon bomb with the fuse lit. Being on such a list should warrant a more extensive search, I'd think. As it is now, we all might as well be on a terrorist watch list, since we're *all* going to get extensive screening.

Re: Re: Different situation

"The true goal of terrorism is not to kill, it's to cause fear and thus negatively impact our quality of life."

Absolutely.

"The Nigerian was on a terrorist watch list, was he not?"

Perhaps so. I have not done a lot of research on the Nigerian bomber. My point, however, is that he was Nigerian, which does not fit the type of profile that so many tried to defend when "racial profiling" charges were made.

"McVeigh would have had a hell of a time getting a truck-load of manure on a plane, I'll wager. :)"

Clearly, McVeigh could not have used the same type of bomb, but crashing a plane into the building instead of using the truck bomb would have had a similar effect. The point is, he was on NO ONE's watch list, and we really don't know where the next terrorist attack on America will come from.

Re: Re: Different situation

On an airplane you require only a relatively small explosion to do major damage, especially when the plane is pressurized at altitude. A small hole in the fusilage can lead to explosive decompression, which can tear the aircraft apart, injure passengers, etc.

It is why some people have suggested that this bomber chickened out or was poorly trained, because this size device at low altitude likely would not have taken the plane out. Had the device functioned properly with the plane at high altitude over the ocean, it could have been 100% fatal.

The true goal of terrorism is for a very small minority to hold the majority hostage. It's the schoolyard bully taken to the Nth degree.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Different situation

Nope, sorry, that isn't my source.

rapid decompression of an airplane has all sorts of implications. Consider what happened to the Aloha Airways plane (one of the best examples), where a flight attendant was sucked out of the plane. Thankfully, the vast majority of passengers were belted in. It is also incredibly lucky that the plane did not snap in two.

It isn't just the decompression by itself, but also the incease of drag in the area of the hole, which can lead to progressive failure of the airframe, peeling panels off as the mounting rivets fail. There is also the potential for damage to control systems, as parts coming off my damage the aircraft.

Aircraft are perfect targets, because even in an emergency, the time to landing is long enough that the secondary effects of damage can come along and cause many more problems than just the initial blast.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Different situation

" Consider what happened to the Aloha Airways plane (one of the best examples)..."

Of what? Not an explosion. Bad epoxy, last I heard.

Regardless, the effects of 'explosive' decompression are popularly overblown. You're correct that the increase in drag, et al., are the real problem. The unfortunate attendant was either tossed or blown out, not sucked.

Still, as the safe (given the circumstances) landing shows, it's pretty hard to bring down a plane even with such a catastrophic failure (fly-by-wire planes are another discussion.)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Different situation

Re: Re: Different situation

The Nigerian was on a terrorist watch list, was he not?
He was but not on the no fly list (ask the US intelligence services why not, your mother is probably on the list but someone reported by his own family is not?), not that it would have not done much good because what TSA and most authorities like to overlook is the simple fact that he bypassed not only most security checks but also basic passport control.

He was a transfer passenger from Nigeria flying via Amsterdam. Nigeria is not exactly known for it's security and little to no checks were done in Amsterdam.

He managed to get on the plane with a bomb because of poor intelligence, the one thing most intelligence experts (and Israel demonstrates) is the best defence against terrorists you can have.

1000 times more valuable than 101 baggage checks or the most expensive security systems money can buy

Re: Different situation

That sounds good in theory. The difference is that, in Israel, terrorism is a lot more focused. That is, they really only have a few specific groups to screen for because they know where terrorism is going to come from. In the US, that is not true at all.

If you read the article you would see that is not true at all. They do not racially profile, they do behavioral profiling.

People forget that, prior to 9/11, the largest terrorist act in our country was perpetrated by a white, middle-aged, ex-military male American citizen with a spotless criminal and military record. He was, by most external, objective standards, a "model" citizen. Scanning for "who you are and how you act" would have done nothing to stop Timothy McVeigh had he chosen to use a plane instead of a Ryder truck.

You assume -- almost certainly incorrectly -- that McVeigh would not have given off behavioral clues as to what he was about to do. The whole basis of the Israeli system is the behavioral clues. It is not about what a person *looks* like, but how they act.

Sure, he was Taliban, but how would airport security know that ahead of time?

Again, based on his behavior.

The fact is, the Israeli approach is subjective, and it works because they can screen for a pretty limited profile.

Re: Different situation

My understanding of how the Israeli airport security works is that they look for certain behaviors that are suspicious and then do extra screening. While they may pay more attention to those of certain ethnicities, that is not their major filter/criterion.

ID-based Security

The problem with the Israeli focus on 'knowing who you are,' is, obviously, privacy on a more holistic scale than body scanners.
Keep in mind that the security measures that have boosted security are not ID-based: reinforced cockpit doors and passengers fighting back.

You cannot do a system similar to Israel in the US because Americans seem to think they have endless rights. Some of the Israeli system is based on racial profiling. While in the US there is the issue of "driving while black", in Isreal the issue is "flying while Arab".

Further, Israelis require extensive background information on every flier, which is also retained, cross referenced, and checked over and over again.

Americans would never want to give up their freedom, would never be willing to accept the concepts.

Its easy when you have 2 sides

The Israelis do a great job because its relatively easy to discern who is "not us" They have a few groups of ethnicities that are considered "safe" and all the rest are not. Most Muslims and Arabs if given the choice will steer clear of any Israeli airline and airport, so its a safe bet that when someone other than the the usual show up to board a plane they will get extra attention.

Israeli security does not fare as well when its local home grown terrorists, like the one that literally walked up to their PM and gunned him down.

Also America is too diverse and has too many people to have that level of profiling and control effective.

"It does appear that the Israelis are a lot more focused on security that works, rather than security theater"

You sound like my dad. However, it is noteworthy that it's not very difficult to have a bunch of guns pointed at you in Israel. As someone already noted, in Israel they use profiling and such and it doesn't take much to get them to point a bunch of guns at you. I know people who have had that experience over there.

I am not scared of some crazy ass who is going to blow themselves up along with me. You know what, shit happens. You have a better chance that the plane will go down cause airlines are cutting corners.

I am not scared of the terrorist, fuck the terrorist, who i am scared of is the TSA agent with a chip on his shoulder and a bit of a power problem

I am glad that i have no where to go cause i wont fly planes. I am not some cattle you can move around and herd into the plane

You want to know why the terrorist are going to win? cause we are stupid enough to let them, If these little scare tatics they use didnt work, they wouldnt do it. But no, the media cant keep there eye off the dollar and will play or talk or discuss about how endangered we all are for days, years, months, decades, as long as we are staring at that tv pissing ourselves.

Let me tell you something America, Yellow stone could go off tomorrow and we would all be fucked, plane or no plane. A meteor could slam into the earth and wipe out 90% or more of the earth population and it could happen in the next hour. It doesn't matter if you die by Yellowstone, by a meteor, by a terrorist or by any of the endless random unlikely possibility that you will die.

I think you got a better chance of dying from yellow stone or a meteor then you do of a fucking stupid terrorist. I am really getting tired, so very very tired of the stupidity terrorism causes, its like bush got on the TV and replaced everyone IQ with his own.

wake the fuck up, your not going to die from a terrorist, probably die from something allot worse, cancer for example, you'll probably die a slow ugly horrible death from cancer all the while your family changes your shit diaper, personally, ill take the plane blowing up.

The Israeli system works because of heavy surveillance...

The Israeli system only works because of extremely heavy internal surveillance. I'll give you a small example of my wife traveling there on business several years ago.

When she went to leave, she was stopped and questioned at the airport about why she had not spent one night in here hotel. She had actually spent the night at an old college roommate's house, who they then called to verify. The questioning continued and it was very obvious that she had been followed the whole time she was there. BTW, she is Dutch, lives in the US and was working for Accenture at the time.

Luckily for my wife, her old roommate was an investigative reporter for one of the TV networks and showed up 20 min later with a full crew asking awkward questions about why my wife was being detained. Which was probably a good thing as they were busy tearing apart her luggage and it was increasingly looking like she was going to spend more time in Israel as a guest of the state....

Bottom line, it's not airport security that's effective in Israel, it's the heavy internal surveillance. As to whether Americans would tolerate this level of surveillance, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

Scaleability

How many major airports does Israel have that deal with domestic and international flights? How many in America? Can that same style of security apply to the expansive nature of the US airport infrastructure? It seems fairly cost prohibitive and extremely difficult to orchestrate. Not that our current network the TSA has in place scores big on either of those points.

OK, just checked, looks like 5 airports in Israel (all international?) compared to 111 US airports (that handle 450k+ passengers per year). I dunno, I would hate to be the person in charge of organizing that.

Yep

Its time to put some hardcore security in place. The old days of Free-America are gone. We let dumb-ass, pony-tailed liberals dictate our policy and this is what we get. As a country we are too scared of little guys so we let them walk all over us anywhere in the world.

Let me put it this way. In the old west the problem of lawlessness was solved with a gun. At first it was only a gun. After that, the law came in and decent people were not victims of crime nearly so often. In today's America, we are just not willing to do step 1.

Blowing Up Laptops

Anyone remember the article on Gizmodo. One of the writers was going through an airport in occupied Palestine and they did not like some of the stamps in her passport so they decided to shoot up her laptop. I wish I could find the article. Yeah.. I am we would all love that!!

Obligatory xkcd reference...

Traitors

"Its time to put some hardcore security in place. The old days of Free-America are gone. We let dumb-ass, pony-tailed liberals dictate our policy and this is what we get. As a country we are too scared of little guys so we let them walk all over us anywhere in the world."

No, we are not scared of little guys or even terrorists. We are scared of the massive knee-jerk over-reaction by our leaders and unamerican traitors like you who would trade out hard-won freedoms for the illusion of your version of "security."

Israelis are experienced but their situation is different

I've made a few trips there. Once, I've found myself nearly naked while they were inspecting the dirty laundry inside my bag (not a nice job). They also had a very close look at a walkman I had bought in an Arab village. That was not very pleasant but interesting. I didn't know then about the famous bombing plot involving a clock that a British woman was supposed to give to her parents in law. The clock was actually an explosive device built by the husband, and the woman was pregnant. Charming. I had been under suspiscion because of a bad hangover that made me look less than confortable.
There is a recent post by Michael Toten on the subject on the Commentary blog. He says the Israelis look for people while the Americans look for things like a bomb.
But we must remember that Israel has only one international airport and not much traffic between domestic ones. The USA are a different story.

Not Practical

If we would have followed El Al's security strategy on just ONE ITEM, 9/11 probably wounldn't have happened or, at least, been dramatically less tragic:

Hardened Cockpit Doors

Hardened cockpit doors, pilots that understand that they may need to let themselves & their passengers be killed to save thousands, and passengers that know that it will be up to them alone to stop the terrorist, and the real terrorist threat is extinguished.

A few hundred people killed on a plane blown-up over the Atlantic? No biggie. 2x that number die in car accidents each week just in the U.S...

TSA screening

Asinine! A very small country with an essentially homogeneous population and culture is compared to a very large country with a very inhomogeneous population, and the decision is that solutions that work in the small country will work in the large country?
Perhaps the article should end with the sage comment; "regardless of what people say, oranges are really apples!"

Study on Airport Safety

MediaCurves.com conducted a study among 300 Americans viewing an interview with a former Department of Transportation inspector. Results found that the majority (74%) reported that the government should spend more money on improving airport security. After viewing the video the percentage of viewers who reported feeling “not at all safe” on an airplane flight increased from 14% to 25%.
More in depth results can be seen at: http://www.mediacurves.com/NationalMediaFocus/J7692-AiplaneTravelSafety/Index.cfm
Thanks,
Ben