On a side note, did anyone know Br. Nathanael was once part of the late-1960's band, Rebecca and the Sunnybrook Farmers : http://youtu.be/Us7iCKiXZ_o

Rebecca and the Sunnybrook Farmers were a psychedelic-influenced band from Pittsburgh, PN, whose music was an interesting blend of country rock, folk rock, and sunshine pop. Featuring Ilene Rappaport on vocals, guitar, harmonica, and recorder, Ilene Novog on vocals, viola, and harpsichord, Mickey Kapner on guitar, sitar, organ, and backing vocals...http://www.allmusic.com/artist/rebecca-and-the-sunnybrook-farmers-mn0000468010

regardless of their attire or the lack there of, you need to consider that the abject foolishness of some has nothing to do with their love for Christ.

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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

This is my favorite video by him. Who could not love monasticism after hearing his dulcet tones?

How can he talk like that?

And that was an awfully bright "midnight."

Former salesman. Possibly moonlight with artificial lighting.

I thought that particular movie (about monastery life) was good. However, I really don't think I want to donate to his foundation because he seems unhinged.

When the clip ended, my computer started playing a radio channel somehow. Clicking on different unrelated buttons on my browser seemed to interfere with it, and closing youtube didn't seem to make a difference. Anyway...

I believe that Br. Nathanael has argued yes, on the grounds that "Jewishness" passes through the maternal line. I don't know of any evidence, however, that Murdoch identifies as such. I have found that with people like Br. Nathanael, almost anyone can be connected with almost anything if you try hard enough. He has even "implicated" the woman in my avatar (H. P. Blavatsky) in being a part of the International Jewish Conspiracy™. Much to my disappointment, I can't find the video. I have needed a good laugh recently, but not so much that I want to watch all 150+ of his rants.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 06:23:48 PM by Ioannis Climacus »

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Note : Many of my posts (especially the ones antedating late 2012) do not reflect charity, tact, or even views I presently hold. Please forgive me for any antagonism I have caused.

Would you (still?) consider yourself a Messianic Christian? If so what do you think about Chr.Zionism and the State it follows? (You can mention it on the politics forum, if you prefer).

Sort of.

I just try to adapt my life around the practices of VERY early Christians as much as possible. Often this leads people to confusion and myself as well.

I keep the Sabbath (as the Early Christians) and recognize the Lord's day. My family practices much adaptation of the early Christians in lifestyle. We learn from some of the understanding of the Hebrew culture that the Messianic Christians (Nazarites) can teach, and how it makes the life of Yeshua even more beautiful and incredible. However, we do believe in the Trinity, unlike many Messianic Jews.

We do not wear gold/costly array, the women in my family cover their heads as commanded because they are to "pray without ceasing". We do not take oaths, can't hold any public or government jobs.... This is much like many of the Anabaptists.

We do also practice some of the beautiful roots of Orthodoxy. We sing many of its hymns at home, love the stories of the Saints, traditions, etc. As many know however, we do not practice Orthodoxy fully for reasons on many other threads. I know to many EO is an "all or none package", which is probably why I confuse a lot.

To answer directly, I do not believe that Jews are Zionist Jews at all. The Zionist Jews Brother Nathanael speaks of are not the typical "Jew".

I just try to adapt my life around the practices of VERY early Christians as much as possible. Often this leads people to confusion and myself as well.

I keep the Sabbath (as the Early Christians) and recognize the Lord's day. My family practices much adaptation of the early Christians in lifestyle. We learn from some of the understanding of the Hebrew culture that the Messianic Christians (Nazarites) can teach, and how it makes the life of Yeshua even more beautiful and incredible. However, we do believe in the Trinity, unlike many Messianic Jews.

We do not wear gold/costly array, the women in my family cover their heads as commanded because they are to "pray without ceasing". We do not take oaths, can't hold any public or government jobs.... This is much like many of the Anabaptists.

By "we", do you mean that there is a specific religious group that shares your orientation that mixes Messianic and Orthodox customs?

You mentioned an interesting point when you said:

Quote

As many know however, we do not practice Orthodoxy fully for reasons on many other threads. I know to many EO is an "all or none package", which is probably why I confuse a lot.

Orthodoxy also has a goal of continuing the practices of the first Christians. It also a goal of being a full package on important beliefs, as opposed to lesser questions about customs (Greek vs Russian vs Western Rite Orthodox).

An early Christian example of Orthodoxy being a full package on main beliefs is the Council of Jerusalem, where the Church came together to take a united belief on whether non-Jews would follow the Torah. Incidentally, that particular case relates to the issue you bring up of whether non-Jews like us should follow many things in the Torah, like keeping a strict Sabbath.

Nonetheless, I do find the Messianics' claim worthy of discussion, because early Jewish Christians did keep the Sabbath, yet Church canons prohibit anyone from keeping Jewish feasts (I know even Orthodox leaders do not always follow this). At the same time, due to a positive urge at interfaith reconciliation, as well as unfamiliarity with the gospels, one can overlook the differences that early Jewish Christians had with the larger religious community, even including Torah observance (for example, the issue of whether food can make someone ritually "unclean". Matt 15:11)

[/quote]I believe that Br. Nathanael has argued yes, on the grounds that "Jewishness" passes through the maternal line. I don't know of any evidence, however, that Murdoch identifies as such. I have found that with people like Br. Nathanael, almost anyone can be connected with almost anything if you try hard enough. He has even "implicated" the woman in my avatar (H. P. Blavatsky) in being a part of the International Jewish Conspiracy™. Much to my disappointment, I can't find the video. I have needed a good laugh recently, but not so much that I want to watch all 150+ of his rants.[/quote]

Rabbinic Jews assert that Jewish lineage passes through the female line but the Kairites assert it passes along the male line.

I read here that (Br.?) Nathanael is involved with a noncanonical group to whose monastery he belonged, but that he also belongs to ROCOR, which is canonical. I am not sure whether this contradictory state of affairs is itself canonical. I mean, how can it be canonical for someone to belong to a noncanonical group or monastery?

Obviously his political views do not go against Orthodoxy's religious views. But since his main religious activity seems to be with the noncanonical group, doesn't that suggest that his anti-elitist activism and organization are more orientated to his noncanonical activity as well?

Rabbinic Jews assert that Jewish lineage passes through the female line but the Kairites assert it passes along the male line.

Hmmm... This seems possible too, because I think that in the OT censuses people were identified based on male descent, like the Levites were identified based on their descent from Aaron (a paternal figure).

I read here that (Br.?) Nathanael is involved with a noncanonical group to whose monastery he belonged,

I went looking for the precise information on this as it has been some years since I had a brush with Nathanael over on the E-Cafe. He was a novice in ROAC under Gregory of Colorado in 2005 when there was some form of disagreement that involve the local sheriff's office. So it has been more than 7.5 years since he was associated with a monastery unless there's another one that he's been with since.

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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

I just try to adapt my life around the practices of VERY early Christians as much as possible. Often this leads people to confusion and myself as well.

I keep the Sabbath (as the Early Christians) and recognize the Lord's day. My family practices much adaptation of the early Christians in lifestyle. We learn from some of the understanding of the Hebrew culture that the Messianic Christians (Nazarites) can teach, and how it makes the life of Yeshua even more beautiful and incredible. However, we do believe in the Trinity, unlike many Messianic Jews.

We do not wear gold/costly array, the women in my family cover their heads as commanded because they are to "pray without ceasing". We do not take oaths, can't hold any public or government jobs.... This is much like many of the Anabaptists.

By "we", do you mean that there is a specific religious group that shares your orientation that mixes Messianic and Orthodox customs?

You mentioned an interesting point when you said:

Quote

As many know however, we do not practice Orthodoxy fully for reasons on many other threads. I know to many EO is an "all or none package", which is probably why I confuse a lot.

Orthodoxy also has a goal of continuing the practices of the first Christians. It also a goal of being a full package on important beliefs, as opposed to lesser questions about customs (Greek vs Russian vs Western Rite Orthodox).

An early Christian example of Orthodoxy being a full package on main beliefs is the Council of Jerusalem, where the Church came together to take a united belief on whether non-Jews would follow the Torah. Incidentally, that particular case relates to the issue you bring up of whether non-Jews like us should follow many things in the Torah, like keeping a strict Sabbath.

Nonetheless, I do find the Messianics' claim worthy of discussion, because early Jewish Christians did keep the Sabbath, yet Church canons prohibit anyone from keeping Jewish feasts (I know even Orthodox leaders do not always follow this). At the same time, due to a positive urge at interfaith reconciliation, as well as unfamiliarity with the gospels, one can overlook the differences that early Jewish Christians had with the larger religious community, even including Torah observance (for example, the issue of whether food can make someone ritually "unclean". Matt 15:11)

By "we" I mean my family.

To go further, would heavily hijack this thread... Let's just say I disagree with your statement of the EO church's goal. We can discuss in PM because this would be another unfortunate can of worms. God bless.

I read here that (Br.?) Nathanael is involved with a noncanonical group to whose monastery he belonged,

I went looking for the precise information on this as it has been some years since I had a brush with Nathanael over on the E-Cafe. He was a novice in ROAC under Gregory of Colorado in 2005 when there was some form of disagreement that involve the local sheriff's office. So it has been more than 7.5 years since he was associated with a monastery unless there's another one that he's been with since.

I was under the impression that there was newer information that Nathanael had gone into canonical Orthodoxy.

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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

I read here that (Br.?) Nathanael is involved with a noncanonical group to whose monastery he belonged, but that he also belongs to ROCOR, which is canonical. I am not sure whether this contradictory state of affairs is itself canonical. I mean, how can it be canonical for someone to belong to a noncanonical group or monastery?

Obviously his political views do not go against Orthodoxy's religious views. But since his main religious activity seems to be with the noncanonical group, doesn't that suggest that his anti-elitist activism and organization are more orientated to his noncanonical activity as well?

In my opinion guys, there is no use looking for "who he is with" honestly.

He is what he is. His abbot obviously approves.

That said -

What exactly does he say that is wrong that you can factually discredit? Is this more of an issue that some of you would rather see a monk beaten down, silent, and a wimp? Is this a control issue people have against monks?

I have absolutely no problem with a monk speaking the TRUTH. I don't care how "outspoken" it sounds, as the truth stands on a rock. I am not a person who wishes to control another human being wishing them to be wimpy and under "orders". I believe we are all equals, who are all sinners, and we do God's will.

I can't have a problem with him. He's not antisemite, he's anti Zionist.

I think this is a funky control issue that many EO Christians have. Some people seem so weak in their own lives that they'd rather shove a monk in place and make him "mind" than listen to what he has to say. Monks are about humility and humbleness, but they are also about truth and will do right in the face of evil. Brother Nathanael fights what he sees as evil.

Not all monks are the same. There are hermit monks... There are your "obedient subservient" ones. There are monks who beat iron on anvils for a good part of the day making fishing gear. There are monks who make icons, candles, incense. There are also monks who make coffee. There are are monks who help in heavy duty construction projects. Brother Nathanael, he's outspoken against evil on youtube.

His abbot approves. Obviously. He wouldn't be this big if not. Web sites, weekly videos, full edits with special effects, texts, and video cut ins. Obviously lots of time spent on this.

It has not even been confirmed that he has an abbot. As a novice, he is not a tonsured monk. He has not given a vow of obedience so he can technically go and do whatever he wants, say whatever he wants, etc. He is not accountable accept as he chooses to be, and he can change on his own whim.

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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Well, there was a major fracturing last year, and a lot of their monks/parishes went to the GOC (Fr. Anastasios' group). That was after a couple of their bishops had made a similar move a year earlier. Not sure what the exact numbers are...

I read here that (Br.?) Nathanael is involved with a noncanonical group to whose monastery he belonged,

I went looking for the precise information on this as it has been some years since I had a brush with Nathanael over on the E-Cafe. He was a novice in ROAC under Gregory of Colorado in 2005 when there was some form of disagreement that involve the local sheriff's office. So it has been more than 7.5 years since he was associated with a monastery unless there's another one that he's been with since.

I was under the impression that there was newer information that Nathanael had gone into canonical Orthodoxy.

I was merely giving the information about his being part, however briefly, with the "non-canonical group" as it unfolded on the E-Cafe more than seven years ago.

He may be associated with some canonical jurisdiction now, but I haven't seen any information about any other abbot/monastery having taken him on, as it were.

He still has several things on his "news" site putting for the loathsome forgery "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" as true and real. It isn't and it has been used for more than a century to promote antagonism against human beings. That he is also, at least a month ago, part of the "Sandy Hook is a Conspiracy" does nothing to instill faith in his particular ideas.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 06:17:30 PM by Ebor »

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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

I read here that (Br.?) Nathanael is involved with a noncanonical group to whose monastery he belonged, but that he also belongs to ROCOR, which is canonical. I am not sure whether this contradictory state of affairs is itself canonical. I mean, how can it be canonical for someone to belong to a noncanonical group or monastery?

Obviously his political views do not go against Orthodoxy's religious views. But since his main religious activity seems to be with the noncanonical group, doesn't that suggest that his anti-elitist activism and organization are more orientated to his noncanonical activity as well?

+Met Hilarion, hierarch of Rocor looked me in the eye and confirmed that Br. Nataniel is not a member of Rocor. This was no more than six months ago.He went on to tell me about Br. Nathaniel's attacks on Rocor concerning reunification with Moscow (since recanted by Br. Nathaniel).

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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

+Met Hilarion, hierarch of Rocor looked me in the eye and confirmed that Br. Nataniel is not a member of Rocor. This was no more than six months ago.He went on to tell me about Br. Nathaniel's attacks on Rocor concerning reunification with Moscow (since recanted by Br. Nathaniel).

That, folks should settle it. Anyone who knows HE Hilarion knows he would be telling the truth.

+Met Hilarion, hierarch of Rocor looked me in the eye and confirmed that Br. Nataniel is not a member of Rocor.He went on to tell me about Br. Nathaniel's attacks on Rocor concerning reunification with Moscow (since recanted by Br. Nathaniel).

That, folks should settle it. Anyone who knows HE Hilarion knows he would be telling the truth.

Of course- if Met. Hilarion did say this. Is there anything to confirm that?

In my opinion guys, there is no use looking for "who he is with" honestly.

He is what he is. His abbot obviously approves.

That said -

What exactly does he say that is wrong that you can factually discredit? Is this more of an issue that some of you would rather see a monk beaten down, silent, and a wimp? Is this a control issue people have against monks?

I have absolutely no problem with a monk speaking the TRUTH. I don't care how "outspoken" it sounds, as the truth stands on a rock. I am not a person who wishes to control another human being wishing them to be wimpy and under "orders". I believe we are all equals, who are all sinners, and we do God's will.

I can't have a problem with him. He's not antisemite, he's anti Zionist.

I think this is a funky control issue that many EO Christians have. Some people seem so weak in their own lives that they'd rather shove a monk in place and make him "mind" than listen to what he has to say. Monks are about humility and humbleness, but they are also about truth and will do right in the face of evil. Brother Nathanael fights what he sees as evil.

Not all monks are the same. There are hermit monks... There are your "obedient subservient" ones. There are monks who beat iron on anvils for a good part of the day making fishing gear. There are monks who make icons, candles, incense. There are also monks who make coffee. There are are monks who help in heavy duty construction projects. Brother Nathanael, he's outspoken against evil on youtube.

His abbot approves. Obviously. He wouldn't be this big if not. Web sites, weekly videos, full edits with special effects, texts, and video cut ins. Obviously lots of time spent on this.

If his abbot approves, that's all folks.

He's not antisemite, he's anti Zionist.

Naw... he's a straight up Antisemite.

Self hating Jews are not a new thing. For example, in the Warsaw Ghetto the Germans recruited a Jewish Police force to work for them. Br. Nathaniel is cut from that same cloth.. He is loathsome.

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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

+Met Hilarion, hierarch of Rocor looked me in the eye and confirmed that Br. Nataniel is not a member of Rocor.He went on to tell me about Br. Nathaniel's attacks on Rocor concerning reunification with Moscow (since recanted by Br. Nathaniel).

That, folks should settle it. Anyone who knows HE Hilarion knows he would be telling the truth.

Of course- if Met. Hilarion did say this. Is there anything to confirm that?

He is not a member of Rocor.

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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Brother Nathanael Kapner is a recognized monastic with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Of Russia (ROCOR) where he is officially recognized as a "poslushnik"/"novice" monk.

Brother Nathanael speaks and writes as a former Jew--now an Orthodox Christian--and not in any official capacity with the ROCOR jurisdiction. He resides in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado.

He is actually being a little vague isn't he? He is saying that his status as a Novice is recognized by Rocor. This is true. His status as a Novice is indeed "recognized" as valid. Met. Hillarion himself mentioned to me that Nathaniel is a Novice. There is no question about that. That does not mean he is a member of Rocor....does it? It just means what he said. His status as a Novice is recognized, just like it would be in the OCA or GOA or anywhere else..

He then goes on to say that he has no authority what so ever to speak for Rocor. Yes, non members with not position of authority cant speak for Rocor.. Duh

Duplicity seems to be his game.

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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Brother Nathanael Kapner is a recognized monastic with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Of Russia (ROCOR) where he is officially recognized as a "poslushnik"/"novice" monk.

His status as a Novice is indeed "recognized" as valid. Met. Hillarion himself mentioned to me that Nathaniel is a Novice. That does not mean he is a member of Rocor....does it?His status as a Novice is recognized, just like it would be in the OCA or GOA or anywhere else..

Marc, I am doubtful he really is with ROCOR, but it would be more helpful if there was a statement by a clergyman recorded to that effect. Not just between you and me, but so people elsewhere would know.

His statement above basically means that he is a "monk with ROCOR". If someone says they are "a boy scout with the Boy Scouts of America but do not speak for it in an official capacity", it means they are a member of it, but do not have the role of a leader or spokesperson.

Quote

Actually I recently wrote to Brother Kapner and asked him about his status. He referred me to his Bishop, His Grace Jerome of The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR). So, I did. He said that Brother Kapner is indeed an Orthodox Christian and while he is not a full monk, he is a novice, which makes him a monastic.Dec 30, 2011http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=19083&min=20&num=10

But then again, you said your conversation with Bp. Hilarion was more recent.

In my opinion guys, there is no use looking for "who he is with" honestly.

He is what he is. His abbot obviously approves.

That said -

What exactly does he say that is wrong that you can factually discredit? Is this more of an issue that some of you would rather see a monk beaten down, silent, and a wimp? Is this a control issue people have against monks?

I have absolutely no problem with a monk speaking the TRUTH. I don't care how "outspoken" it sounds, as the truth stands on a rock. I am not a person who wishes to control another human being wishing them to be wimpy and under "orders". I believe we are all equals, who are all sinners, and we do God's will.

I can't have a problem with him. He's not antisemite, he's anti Zionist.

I think this is a funky control issue that many EO Christians have. Some people seem so weak in their own lives that they'd rather shove a monk in place and make him "mind" than listen to what he has to say. Monks are about humility and humbleness, but they are also about truth and will do right in the face of evil. Brother Nathanael fights what he sees as evil.

Not all monks are the same. There are hermit monks... There are your "obedient subservient" ones. There are monks who beat iron on anvils for a good part of the day making fishing gear. There are monks who make icons, candles, incense. There are also monks who make coffee. There are are monks who help in heavy duty construction projects. Brother Nathanael, he's outspoken against evil on youtube.

His abbot approves. Obviously. He wouldn't be this big if not. Web sites, weekly videos, full edits with special effects, texts, and video cut ins. Obviously lots of time spent on this.

If his abbot approves, that's all folks.

He's not antisemite, he's anti Zionist.

Naw... he's a straight up Antisemite.

Self hating Jews are not a new thing. For example, in the Warsaw Ghetto the Germans recruited a Jewish Police force to work for them. Br. Nathaniel is cut from that same cloth.. He is loathsome.

Rly Marc? Can you knock this stuff off just a little?

You understanding of the role of Jews within the power relations of the camps in which they served is probably less than sophisticated.

But that aside, please stop posting for the most insipid of reasons photos of the misery and death of others. Your trivializing of these persons' unfortunate plight to make some tangential and confused point on a internet board strikes me a being rather tasteless.

Logged

If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Brother Nathanael Kapner is a recognized monastic with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Of Russia (ROCOR) where he is officially recognized as a "poslushnik"/"novice" monk.

His status as a Novice is indeed "recognized" as valid. Met. Hillarion himself mentioned to me that Nathaniel is a Novice. That does not mean he is a member of Rocor....does it?His status as a Novice is recognized, just like it would be in the OCA or GOA or anywhere else..

Marc, I am doubtful he really is with ROCOR, but it would be more helpful if there was a statement by a clergyman recorded to that effect. Not just between you and me, but so people elsewhere would know.

His statement above basically means that he is a "monk with ROCOR". If someone says they are "a boy scout with the Boy Scouts of America but do not speak for it in an official capacity", it means they are a member of it, but do not have the role of a leader or spokesperson.

Quote

Actually I recently wrote to Brother Kapner and asked him about his status. He referred me to his Bishop, His Grace Jerome of The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR). So, I did. He said that Brother Kapner is indeed an Orthodox Christian and while he is not a full monk, he is a novice, which makes him a monastic.Dec 30, 2011http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=19083&min=20&num=10

But then again, you said your conversation with Bp. Hilarion was more recent.

I asked the Heirarch and got a direct answer. I'm complete on the issue.

I found this post on catholicinfo.not com. I dont want to copy posts from another forum so just click on the link:

Apparently someone there wrote to Fr. Serge head of the Rocor media office and asked about Br. Nathaniel. Fr. Serge confirmed that Nathaniel is not a member of Rocor and he doesn't think that he is even a monk.

These are just posts on a forum so i suggest if you want to know more that you do the same and write to Fr. Serge as well.

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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

In my opinion guys, there is no use looking for "who he is with" honestly.

He is what he is. His abbot obviously approves.

That said -

What exactly does he say that is wrong that you can factually discredit? Is this more of an issue that some of you would rather see a monk beaten down, silent, and a wimp? Is this a control issue people have against monks?

I have absolutely no problem with a monk speaking the TRUTH. I don't care how "outspoken" it sounds, as the truth stands on a rock. I am not a person who wishes to control another human being wishing them to be wimpy and under "orders". I believe we are all equals, who are all sinners, and we do God's will.

I can't have a problem with him. He's not antisemite, he's anti Zionist.

I think this is a funky control issue that many EO Christians have. Some people seem so weak in their own lives that they'd rather shove a monk in place and make him "mind" than listen to what he has to say. Monks are about humility and humbleness, but they are also about truth and will do right in the face of evil. Brother Nathanael fights what he sees as evil.

Not all monks are the same. There are hermit monks... There are your "obedient subservient" ones. There are monks who beat iron on anvils for a good part of the day making fishing gear. There are monks who make icons, candles, incense. There are also monks who make coffee. There are are monks who help in heavy duty construction projects. Brother Nathanael, he's outspoken against evil on youtube.

His abbot approves. Obviously. He wouldn't be this big if not. Web sites, weekly videos, full edits with special effects, texts, and video cut ins. Obviously lots of time spent on this.

If his abbot approves, that's all folks.

He's not antisemite, he's anti Zionist.

Naw... he's a straight up Antisemite.

Self hating Jews are not a new thing. For example, in the Warsaw Ghetto the Germans recruited a Jewish Police force to work for them. Br. Nathaniel is cut from that same cloth.. He is loathsome.

Rly Marc? Can you knock this stuff off just a little?

You understanding of the role of Jews within the power relations of the camps in which they served is probably less than sophisticated.

But that aside, please stop posting for the most insipid of reasons photos of the misery and death of others. Your trivializing of these persons' unfortunate plight to make some tangential and confused point on a internet board strikes me a being rather tasteless.

Youre interpretation is muddled.

I am giving an example of the kind of person Nathaniel is, a self hating Jew.The nearest equivalent are the Jewish Police in the Warsaw Ghetto.

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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Thanks for posting. I do think it's strange he would be ROCOR and also in a noncanonical jurisdiction at the same time. On one hand, we have your discussion with Met. Hilarion and a statement from Fr. Sergei, both from 6 months ago, and statements by Bp. Shaw and another clergyman that he was part of ROCOR a year ago.

As you point out this is all hearsay, but I guess what you are saying is right because it's strange he would be ROCOR and also a monk in a noncanonical jurisdiction, although he could have left one for the other. One could ask why he says he is ROCOR or ROCA (he has signed both, perhaps at different times), and why he would "recant" of anti-ROCOR statements if he had no interest in ROCOR to begin with.

1. Br. Nathanael is absolutely a member of ROCOR, according to our bishops. 2. Br. Nathanael has made clear he is anti-Zionist, not anti-Semite. Of course, recent dictionaries equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, though there is no logical basis for such a conflation, don't help the clarity of things. 3. Many Jewish faithful are also anti-Zionist, especially the Orthodox and more conservative Jews, and also Hebrew Hippies (sorry, couldn't resist). 4. The website appears non-vague in delivering two important pieces of info: that he is a novice in ROCOR and that he does not speak for ROCOR. 5. I view him as being, in our times, a sort of Cassandra of Troy. Even his (asserted) assertion that Sandy Hook was a psy-op, has quite a bit of evidence in its favor, although I am not ready to subscribe to a particular version of events behind those events. I believe there are still many unanswered questions, and am very, very reluctant to assert things which could turn out to be untrue or which can't be proven.

6. But to me the big doozy here, the elephant in the room most seem to be missing, is that we have horribly evil people doing evil and horrible things to people that are causing and can yet cause untold deaths and suffering, and deprive people of their most basic human dignity. In the context of these heinous and enormous crimes, the whistleblower is attacked. Then, instead of speaking ill of the wicked criminals who are actually harming and killing and sterilizing people and starting unnecessary wars, and doing much other mischief, our eccentric and outspoken but completely harmless Br. Nathanael is himself attacked.

There's something profoundly and extremely wrong with this picture.

P.S. While the Other Mainstream Media (Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, etc.) always speak ill of the ACLU, the fact is that on occasion they have defended the right to free speech of some persons we cannot possibly see as exhibiting the political views which the ACLU seems to espouse. The ACLU has worked to defend Constitutional rights of various persons. So I disagree with the broad-brush and view them more as a mixed bag of advocacy.

I think the ultimate answer to Brother Nathanael is to take his videos with a grain of salt. I have heard over and over that he is not an anti-semite yet I, honestly, can't agree with that. However, the evidence that he backs for all his claims about ZIONISTS is very much unrefutable. Like every guy on the internet you should take some and leave some, with Br. Nathanael you should probably leave a little more.

1. Br. Nathanael is absolutely a member of ROCOR, according to our bishops. 2. Br. Nathanael has made clear he is anti-Zionist, not anti-Semite. Of course, recent dictionaries equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, though there is no logical basis for such a conflation, don't help the clarity of things. 3. Many Jewish faithful are also anti-Zionist, especially the Orthodox and more conservative Jews, and also Hebrew Hippies (sorry, couldn't resist). 4. The website appears non-vague in delivering two important pieces of info: that he is a novice in ROCOR and that he does not speak for ROCOR. 5. I view him as being, in our times, a sort of Cassandra of Troy. Even his (asserted) assertion that Sandy Hook was a psy-op, has quite a bit of evidence in its favor, although I am not ready to subscribe to a particular version of events behind those events. I believe there are still many unanswered questions, and am very, very reluctant to assert things which could turn out to be untrue or which can't be proven.

6. But to me the big doozy here, the elephant in the room most seem to be missing, is that we have horribly evil people doing evil and horrible things to people that are causing and can yet cause untold deaths and suffering, and deprive people of their most basic human dignity. In the context of these heinous and enormous crimes, the whistleblower is attacked. Then, instead of speaking ill of the wicked criminals who are actually harming and killing and sterilizing people and starting unnecessary wars, and doing much other mischief, our eccentric and outspoken but completely harmless Br. Nathanael is himself attacked.

There's something profoundly and extremely wrong with this picture.

P.S. While the Other Mainstream Media (Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, etc.) always speak ill of the ACLU, the fact is that on occasion they have defended the right to free speech of some persons we cannot possibly see as exhibiting the political views which the ACLU seems to espouse. The ACLU has worked to defend Constitutional rights of various persons. So I disagree with the broad-brush and view them more as a mixed bag of advocacy.

1. He is not a member of Rocor according to Met. Hillarion2. He is a notorious Anti-Semite, not just Anti-Zionist.. If you cant tell the difference then that doest speak well of you. Holding up signs that say ACLU Jews are the Anti-Christ is pretty clearly Anti-Semitic with nothing what so ever to do with Israel.

3. If you think "Brother" Nathaniel is some sort of "Whistle Blower" than you have very poor insight about such things.. IMHO..

I find it enormously disappointing that an Orthodox Priest thinks highly of such a vicious Anti-Semite and subscribes to his warped theories..At best you could dismiss Nathaniel as mentally ill but to take him seriously is rather breathtaking... I will stop at that before I say something I will regret.

Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Well, there was a major fracturing last year, and a lot of their monks/parishes went to the GOC (Fr. Anastasios' group). That was after a couple of their bishops had made a similar move a year earlier. Not sure what the exact numbers are...

[in before Michal Kalina says "schismatics being schismatic"]

I thought Father Anastasios was with HOTCA.... (acronyms seem similar)

HOCNA had some kind of homosexual scandal... I think somebody in HOCNA accused Bishop Gregory (dormition skete) of being gay. It was one of their uppers, but I'm not well versed in all scandals. As far as I know, totally different bunch, but I don't know much.

HOTCA on the other hand, as far as I can tell is old calendar, anti ecumenism, and very traditional. They are the "Church of the Genuine Greek Orthodox in America" not part of GOC. If I rejoined Orthodoxy, I would go with HOTCA myself...

Title added by moderator.

You are given 14 days of warning for not using a title for clergy. Carl Kraeff (second Chance)