Creston you're out to lunch if you think studios make sure those 24 year old assistants only hire the BEST skilled artists. That's horse shit and every studio I've been to except ONE actually will hire the bad candidate. If they seem nice and you can learn a lot about the person online, they have better chances.

I don't know what industry you work in but in VFX, its the story of my life when I get pissed the HR person is hiring someone they think is amazing, then the TD looks at the reel and just laughs and says thats not what we want.

What Beamer is not saying that Creston seems to think he is:"WITHOUT FACEBOOK YOU'LL NEVER GET HIRED!"

What Beamer is saying that Creston keeps exaggerating:"Facebook has become a crucial tool for most recruiters. Given that the economy sucks and any job listing is getting dozens to hundreds of qualified candidates, they're using social media to do investigations to whittle that down to 3 or 4 candidates to call up and pass on to hiring managers. Given this, it makes a whole lot of sense to make a basic, happy profile so that you stand out as memorable to the recruiter. It's better to embrace the fact that you have an internet presence and take complete control of it than to have none at all and risk being passed over by someone taking his job search more seriously and better taking advantage of how recruiters act."

I cankeep postingarticles. You'll just ignore them. That last one says that 68% of recruiters have hired a candidate because of something they saw on social media while investigating them.

Can you at least admit that there may be some circumstances where not having an internet presence hurts you? If that's the case, why would you ever not just make a page that has nothing more than your name and one single happy picture?

You asked the wrong question, first off. I didn't say you'd be denied. I said you'd be less likely to be picked. Why would you tilt odds against yourself?

Next, yes, yes you will get thousands of resumes. If a posting goes on a site like Indeed you will get thousands of resumes. In case you haven't noticed, we've got a bit of an unemployment issue around the globe right now.

And I'm not saying you have to USE social media, I'm saying you have to have a presence. That's it. You can't be some weird ungoogleable, unfacebookable, unlinkedinable person. That will cost you job interviews. Again, I'm not saying it means you will be denied jobs. I'm saying that, given that any position, no matter how skilled, has an incredible amount of resumes that meet the qualifications coming in. You need to stand out, and you want to do so in a good way, not a bad way. It isn't as if a piece of paper and a cover letter will distinguish you very well.

And, again, for god'ssake, stop strawmanning this. What I'm saying is that, if you have to ENTIRELY EQUAL candidates, one with a Facebook page in which he's got one picture of himself smiling somewhere, and one has absolutely no internet presence, who is going to be the one you call for an interview? Everything else being equal. Because, guess what - in this job market everything is equal between yourself and dozens of other people applying for the job you are. I'm not even talking about hiring, I'm just talking about responding to an application.

I love that you think references matter. For one, more than a dozen? How long is your resume? For another, references on a resume? Again, hello 1995. Lastly, so what? A recruiter can't call over a dozen people to ask about you. References don't come into play until much later in the recruiting process. I'm speaking of a recruiter just having a pile of resumes on his desk that meet the requirements and trying to figure out which of those to actually take the time and effort to contact.

Good for you, having no problem getting interviews and jobs. Guess what- that's extremely uncommon these days. Extremely. Most people can't even get a "thank you but we've decided to go with another candidate" email.

Beamer wrote on Dec 19, 2012, 12:02:Creston, just sit and imagine yourself as an HR recruiter for a second. To step back, you need to imagine that you're a 26 year old girl for this part.

I don't have to. I am good friends with several. I asked one who works for Teksystems: "do you use social media to vet candidates?"

Yes

"Would you ever deny a suitable candidate offhand because they have no social networking accounts?"

No.

What more do you want? I get that you think that everyone in the world won't hire someone if they're not on facebook because you won't hire a gardener if they don't have facebook, but this is not how corporations work.

A hiring manager comes to you and says he needs someone that has a bachelor's degree and 3 years of finance experience. He hands you a job description and 3 days later you have 1500 resumes sitting there. You use some automated software that sifts out the obviously unqualified ones. You're left with 300 resumes.

Yes, I'm sure you'll get 1500 qualified resumes. Oookay.

You print out the first 20. 10 of them are immediately unqualified or overqualified. The other 10? All identical. So you pop up and look for them on LinkedIn. A few are there with recommendations. You see their pictures. You look for them on Facebook. A few aren't there, either. You now know nothing about them. One has a picture of himself holding a gun. You now know you don't want him. The others just have smiling faces showing a hint of personality.

The hiring manager wants you to bring 3 people in. You're going to go with one of those nice, smiling faces.

Yes, Beamer, this is what YOU do. This is not what someone who needs a highly skilled candidate for their company does.

Sorry, fight reality all you want, it's the truth. This isn't to say it's impossible to get a job without Facebook, but you hate it so much you refuse to believe that it's a tool that recruiters use and find very useful. It's your head in the sand, nothing less.

Stop fucking making shit up, Beamer. I don't hate Facebook. I understand why people use it, and I can see its value for these people. I still think the large majority of them are stupid for allowing Facebook to rape their privacy, and it baffles me that they still don't understand that they are simply there to be sold to advertisers, but that's not here nor there.

I don't use social media because I don't have time to keep up with the shit.

I'm not saying that you'll be brought in, sat down, interviewed, then if you don't have a Facebook you'll be denied. I'm saying that, when a recruiter has hundreds of equally acceptable resumes, he or she will check Facebook before passing the resumes on or calling people in to interview. And, of course, 95% of those resumes won't even be looked at other than an automated screening. It's simply too high a volume for each to be considered once a dozen or so qualified candidates are already found.

If a person has a social media account, a reviewer will look at it, yes. Of course they would. Why wouldn't they? It's right there. I've never denied this.

If a person doesn't have a social media account, no corporation is going to go "OMG ITS A PSYCHOPATH DO NOT HIRE HIM!" unless it's a complete, retarded shithole.

Because, funny enough, I have no problem getting interviews and getting jobs, despite having zero social media accounts. Neither do several of my colleagues who, like me (admittedly all old crotchety IT guys), also don't have time for it or don't see the point. Guess what? Their resumes are enough to get them an interview, which is all they need.

Now, if you are solely talking about like college graduates or something, okay, I can maybe see a company taking a pass on someone of that age and who doesn't use social media, because they have nothing else to go on.

I list more than a dozen professional references on my resume, and you think that because I don't have a picture next to my name on Facebook, nobody will hire me?

#1 says that there's basically no correlation, that it's all based on extremely small sample sizes, and that in fact companies might want to hire people WITHOUT social media accounts, because their personality traits are more likely to indicate they are hard workers. (Also, someone without a social media account isn't going to waste three hours a day updating their status. Instead, I waste time on bluesnews, which we can all agree is far better!)

#2 is from some hipster blogger on Forbes who, while she says that she thinks the (retarded) German link to two mass murderers having no facebook account is a "bit of a stretch", she really does kind of believe that that really is a correlation you can make. Then she quotes two people from FUCKING SLATE of all places, who say that if a guy has no facebook page, you really shouldn't date them.

Solid evidence there. It's not really even an article. It's a Slate/Forbes circle jerk. "Well, the people from slate agree with my randomly assumed position, so I'm going to quote them and go "SEE?! OTHER PEOPLE THINK THE SAME THING TOO!" and hope they will then quote me and we can keep on having our big wordkake party! SQUEE!"

#3 is from the same hipster, and this time she quotes a research study where they research which COLLEGE STUDENTS someone would hire / would not hire based off their facebook page. This immediately gets disqualified, because it breaks your own implied standard that you get 1500 evenly qualified resumes. A college student has no resume is not going to be judged the same way as someone who has 10+ years experience in their field. Whether that 10 year experience guy has a fucking smiling picture on Facebook or not.

And then #4 is the laziest of all 'journalism', someone who quotes the hipster blogger from #2 and draws conclusions from that, because well shit, if Kashmir Hill says it, IT MUST BE TRUE! SHE EVEN QUOTED SLATE!

Ergo, Latin, your point is pointless. But keep on believing it. Doesn't hurt me in the slightest. but kindly refrain from saying "Well, nobody has ever said anything beyond "FACEBOOK IS STUPID!" as a counter-argument" because this is now the second time I have made this exact argument.

Creston wrote on Dec 19, 2012, 11:56:On the topic of Instagram, as typical, the corporate mouthpiece now goes "Oh noes! People just misunderstood us! We were just talking about allowing cool marketing on Instagram!"

Yeah, that's why you had a line in there saying "If you don't like it, delete your account before January 16th."

Heh. When are corporations going to stop listening to lawyers who insist that they add these draconian measures in their EULAS? This is the umpteenth example of a company losing a lot of users because of ridiculous bullshit that they tried to slip by without anyone noticing.

You can't get away with this shit anymore, fellas. SOMEONE will notice, and someone will post it on reddit or whever, and soon everyone will know, and boom. There go your users.

Creston

The Verge article actually said this was a more restricted EULA than the previous one.Not sure if they got their facts wrong, but if so that's hysterical.

Creston, just sit and imagine yourself as an HR recruiter for a second. To step back, you need to imagine that you're a 26 year old girl for this part.

A hiring manager comes to you and says he needs someone that has a bachelor's degree and 3 years of finance experience. He hands you a job description and 3 days later you have 1500 resumes sitting there. You use some automated software that sifts out the obviously unqualified ones. You're left with 300 resumes.

You print out the first 20. 10 of them are immediately unqualified or overqualified. The other 10? All identical. So you pop up and look for them on LinkedIn. A few are there with recommendations. You see their pictures. You look for them on Facebook. A few aren't there, either. You now know nothing about them. One has a picture of himself holding a gun. You now know you don't want him. The others just have smiling faces showing a hint of personality.

The hiring manager wants you to bring 3 people in. You're going to go with one of those nice, smiling faces.

Sorry, fight reality all you want, it's the truth. This isn't to say it's impossible to get a job without Facebook, but you hate it so much you refuse to believe that it's a tool that recruiters use and find very useful. It's your head in the sand, nothing less.

I'm not saying that you'll be brought in, sat down, interviewed, then if you don't have a Facebook you'll be denied. I'm saying that, when a recruiter has hundreds of equally acceptable resumes, he or she will check Facebook before passing the resumes on or calling people in to interview. And, of course, 95% of those resumes won't even be looked at other than an automated screening. It's simply too high a volume for each to be considered once a dozen or so qualified candidates are already found.

On the topic of Instagram, as typical, the corporate mouthpiece now goes "Oh noes! People just misunderstood us! We were just talking about allowing cool marketing on Instagram!"

Yeah, that's why you had a line in there saying "If you don't like it, delete your account before January 16th."

Heh. When are corporations going to stop listening to lawyers who insist that they add these draconian measures in their EULAS? This is the umpteenth example of a company losing a lot of users because of ridiculous bullshit that they tried to slip by without anyone noticing.

You can't get away with this shit anymore, fellas. SOMEONE will notice, and someone will post it on reddit or whever, and soon everyone will know, and boom. There go your users.

NegaDeath wrote on Dec 18, 2012, 12:03:But if you don't get on facebook your an antisocial human being with potential psychopath tendencies who will never be able to get a job or communicate with a friend ever again. Submit citizen. SUBMIT!

When did you turn into Beamer?

Creston

No one has ever made a good argument against this, other than "facebook is stupid!" or "but I'm qualified!"

Again, simple fact of life: recruiters will google you, look at you on linkedin, and look at you on Facebook. When they have thousands of equally qualified applicants they'll go with the person that looks like they fit the culture. If there is nothing to judge the person by, that person will be skipped.

Corporations hate hate hate social networks with a fucking passion. Because their employees get into stupid shit on Facebook, or say shit on there about the company that gets the company into trouble with investors, and it requires them to create policies to deal with social networks, and to constantly constantly remind their employees NOT to say stupid shit on social networks, etc.

And yet you somehow seem to believe in this utterly insane notion that if someone is not on Facebook, a company won't hire that person.

Do companies use someone's facebook profile, if the person has one? Of course they do. But do they NOT hire people who are not on facebook? Seriously, if you believe this, you are either insane or just so convinced that your own fantasies are reality that you make Tom Cruise look normal.

I work in a support department with 9 people in this office, 19 of them throughout the country. I asked them who is on Facebook. 11 of them are, 8 of them aren't. (heavily skewed towards the girls. All 6 of them are on Facebook)

I guess the company was just going to ignore those 8 people and never give them a job, huh?

Beamer wrote on Dec 18, 2012, 17:47:Again, simple fact of life: recruiters will google you, look at you on linkedin, and look at you on Facebook. When they have thousands of equally qualified applicants they'll go with the person that looks like they fit the culture. If there is nothing to judge the person by, that person will be skipped.

It pains me to hear people live in markets where thousands of people compete for a job and the decision comes down to online pictures of them using brand x instead of brand y. Rest assured I will fight the machine in their stead. Sic semper tyrannis.

I doubt they're checking out their pictures for what brands they're using... It's more akin to a well organized resume. If you took the time to clean up your social pages and make them presentable to recruiters they'll notice. If you and your page look sloppy (grammar, spelling, inappropriate pictures) they'll notice. And if you don't have one they'll notice.

Disce aut discede.

Yup.And no one is looking at the brands you use. Odds are that's impossible to tell from your Facebook. They're just looking to see if you look like a normal enough person, a fun enough person, a responsible enough person. If you aren't an idiot all they'll see is your name, your profile picture, and maybe your education. Nothing else. No pictures, no friends, nothing. Somehow people on this board seem to think that Facebook must be totally open, but you can lock it down so literally all that people see is your name and a single photo. If you hate Facebook you don't even need a tiny bit more information than that, because you can lock it so no one can tell that it's an empty, blank profile. But it gives recruiters reassurance that you're a reasonable, well-balanced human being (even if that's not entirely true.)

And it gives you both a face and a tiny shred of a personality.

Without that, you're just words on paper. Basic human instinct is to go with a smiling face over words.

Beamer wrote on Dec 18, 2012, 17:47:Again, simple fact of life: recruiters will google you, look at you on linkedin, and look at you on Facebook. When they have thousands of equally qualified applicants they'll go with the person that looks like they fit the culture. If there is nothing to judge the person by, that person will be skipped.

It pains me to hear people live in markets where thousands of people compete for a job and the decision comes down to online pictures of them using brand x instead of brand y. Rest assured I will fight the machine in their stead. Sic semper tyrannis.

I doubt they're checking out their pictures for what brands they're using... It's more akin to a well organized resume. If you took the time to clean up your social pages and make them presentable to recruiters they'll notice. If you and your page look sloppy (grammar, spelling, inappropriate pictures) they'll notice. And if you don't have one they'll notice.

NegaDeath wrote on Dec 18, 2012, 12:03:But if you don't get on facebook your an antisocial human being with potential psychopath tendencies who will never be able to get a job or communicate with a friend ever again. Submit citizen. SUBMIT!

Beamer wrote on Dec 18, 2012, 17:47:Again, simple fact of life: recruiters will google you, look at you on linkedin, and look at you on Facebook. When they have thousands of equally qualified applicants they'll go with the person that looks like they fit the culture. If there is nothing to judge the person by, that person will be skipped.

It pains me to hear people live in markets where thousands of people compete for a job and the decision comes down to online pictures of them using brand x instead of brand y. Rest assured I will fight the machine in their stead. Sic semper tyrannis.