Where are the Gen 5's?

I have been doing a lot of reading, but I'm not finding what I'm needing, so I hope this thread isn't duplicating something I missed.

I have read "How to use Iconic Shapes for Genesis in 8.5Beta", "Carrara 8.5 beta Meets Genesis (Starter Tutorial)", and a couple others dealing with Carrara and Genesis, but I can't lock down the following issue:

I can load Genesis (it took me a while to find the one that loads the Genesis object), but when I click on the Actor Tab, under the Instances Tab, the Parameters Tab >> Root selection shows a list of over 650 Parameters to search through. Parameters >> Root >> Actor shows the same. After working through the list of selections, I finally got down to Parameters >> Root >> Actor >> Female where I found the Gen 3 female characters and the Gen 4 female characters, but the only Gen 5 I could find was Victoria 5.

I have installed Aiko 5, and Stephanie 5, as well as Victoria 5, but they do not appear anywhere. Neither do my male Gen 5's show under Male Actors. I have searched the entire directory structure, but I cannot locate a single Gen 5. What am I missing?

I have Carrara 8.5 Pro Build 172 (64 Bit)
Just FYI (don't know if it makes any difference) I have Hexagon 2.5, Studio 4.5, Bryce 7.1, and Poser 7, all with the latest builds (except Poser, of course, but I have all the updates for P7). I mention these in the event of some form of incompatibility issues I may not be aware of.

Comments

Just out of curiosity, did you have V5 and stuff already installed, and then use the Daz Install Manager later to install your other Gen 5 shapes? If so, go into Daz Studio 4.5, and under Edit > Preferences, find your way to manage your content and add the "My Daz3D Library" from you public documents.

Also, Carrara 8.5 beta doesn't auto-switch your UV mapping for you. So if you want to use the textures for Gen 5, you'll want to start by loading one of their Character presets, rather than the base Genesis. Sorry if you knew that, just trying to cover more ground.
In the "Content" tab of the Carrara browser, find My Library and/or My Daz3d Library (if the issue was as above, you should now see both in Carrara), go to "People" > "Genesis" > "Characters", I think. Working from memory, here. In that folder, you should find all of your character presets.

If none of that works, your other Gen 5 people may not have been installed properly - try installing them again.

Another tip,
In Carrara, some shaping morphs are found under the second line called "Genesis", while others are found under "Actor", but they're not the same set. "Actor", I think, is where the main Gen 5 shapes are found, towards the top of the list.
Hope you get it squared away!

I'm sure most of this is redundant to what you may have already read, but just in case:
I have a short article in the Carrara Information thread (Stickied in this Carrara Discussion Forum) : Carrara 8.5 Beta and Genesis followed by some tips about working with Genesis and the current availability of aniBlocks.

I've been rolling over this all morning. Frustration levels hit an all new high. I finally found the problem thanks to your post, I decided to check the installs by the DAZ Installer and none of my Gen 5's were in My DAZ3D Library (the one in the Public Documents Folder), but they are all in My Library (the one in regular Documents Folder). It hit me as strange, and weirder still, not being in both somehow prevented Carrara from seeing either. Once I installed them manually to the Public folder, Carrara was able to find them in both locations.
That seems a bit redundant to me, not to mention the hit to the hard drive space having to have everything installed in two different locations.
But for the time being, it's working. Thanks for the direction. I appreciate your time tremendously.

. It hit me as strange, and weirder still, not being in both somehow prevented Carrara from seeing either. Once I installed them manually to the Public folder, Carrara was able to find them in both locations

You shouldn't need to have two installations of any product,..the problem is more likely to be the folders where Carrara is being pointed to for content, don't match the location for the Gen 5 figures

Ideally you should only have one installation of any product,. and the CMA database will display that item in the Content or Smart Content, irrespective of the physical location of the product on your drive.

it's better to fix this by setting thing up correctly, than having he same figure installed in multiple different locations,.

DIM creates a new "default" Library,. and the advice so far,.. is,. to install your content to the New folder, and abandon the old folder.

You also need to tell DS / Poser,. or Carrara,. where this new folder is located, by adding it to the available Runtime or Content folders.

having the same item in several folders can become confusing, and should be avoided.
also consider,..Which "product" should DIM update, ..if an update becomes available.
or,.. which version of the product should DIM un-install for you.

As for your main issue of the gen5 options not being available,..

It could be that the version of Genesis or the characters, or morphs packs may need to be updated.
(unless you've just downloaded and installed them all using DIM)

Other than that,. it's down to the product being installed into a location which Carrara wasn't being directed to.

Okay.
The thing here is that, for Genesis content that is installed for D|S 4.5, you'll not have to teach Carrara where to find the content - that will just happen, even if you're not using the Daz3d Content Management system. It will show up in the "Content" tab where Daz Studio has it marked.
But 3dage is absolutely correct in that you should not need two installations of any one product. Something else was amiss.

I'll go back and read the rest of the post before I go any further. I'm glad you have access to your stuff, though ;)

Edit:
Okay, he was saying that either D|S or Carrara need to know where the content is - and this was absolutely correct. If you don't ever open D|S, like a lot of us, then it could be that you'd have to... but you already had an address to your content.

In my "Carrara Information" thread covering 8.5b and Genesis, I got into some detail about the fact that during this beta period, we need to keep all of our files up-to-date at all times, or things might not work right.

If you have now switched everything over to the new content directory created by DIM, you may want to consider getting rid of the older location and all of the content files within. The problem with jumping into such a thing is, of course, the idea that you may have some saved stuff in there. The fact is, 3dage is correct in that you'll need to get rid of one of them or you'll not only confuse yourself, but you'll have to keep the content in both locations updated to avoid issues within the software. This is where it becomes a personal choice for you. One or the other. Nonetheless, I would strongly recommend at this point that you install all of your Genesis products using the DIM, either way. You can always tell the DIM (by clicking the little 'gear'-looking thing in the upper right corner, by the X button) to install to your My Documents > DAZ3D > Studio > My Library folder location, but I think that they made the new directory to avoid people doing that - I think that everything installed by the DIM is supposed to be uninstalled first - or issues arise. Like those Errors of duplicate files and such that prevent you from using the stuff - you don't want that. But DIM can't get back anything that you may have acquired outside of Daz3d's store!

The DIM has the power to uninstall everything it installs. However, it can also update it, give you a comprehensive list of it, show you readme's of it, etc., This is where I choose to use the DIM for all of my Genesis stuff. If you haven't saved anything of your own to either location, I would recommend getting rid of the "studio" folder within My Documents > DAZ3D. Wait! Don't do that just because I recommended what I would do! First make sure you haven't saved anything special in there! DIM CAN NOT GET BACK STUFF FROM OTHER STORES OR SITES!!!
As for Daz Content, you shouldn't have to worry about loosing that since the DIM can get it for you in a snap - and since you do have a My Daz3d Library folder at all, tells me that you've made at least one install using it - and you've likely seen how handy the thing is.

I actually thought that I wanted to switch all of my content from my runtimes to that folder too... because I saw that there are all of those handy folders for sorting items in there. It turns out that those folders are all empty within Carrara 8.5 -- so that whole theory went out the window. Still having my runtime directories in order (luckily I decided to experiment before doing anything rash!) I went to DIM and opened the "Installed" tab and hit the select all box in the upper left of the list and hit "Start Queue", which uninstalled everything like a hot knife going through butter! Okay, so now I have to go back and select all of my Genesis items and reinstall them, lol! But I actually enjoy this sort of thing.

Back to your situation, I really don't know how long you've been installing to your D|S content library before Carrara and before DIM - so I'd like to know more before asking you to do anything!

No that you have access to your stuff, leave it alone until we can talk more, okay?
3dage, is really smart, and we'll get you through this, the right way, if possible! ;)

Thanks for the info. :coolsmile: This is still so frustrating, but to answer Dartanbeck's last question first, let me relate a bit of history:

I have been using Poser since about 6 month's after Poser 4's release. Back then, everything was in one directory, and there was a limit as to how many items Poser could "see" in that directory. That's why so many User Created Content out there have folder and file names that start with ! , !!, or even !!!. These come first in a computer's alphabetical sorts. This meant that their content would be at the beginning of the alphabetical sort and, therefore, least likely to get booted off the list (essentially ignored), as regardless of sort order, Poser would only read the first 255 items alphabetically, period.

Most of the other 3D programs out there had similar issues, and this was due to the inability of MSDOS to read more than 255 items per directory (they still have a long way to go in this respect, but that is a whole other subject that I really don't want to get into).
As Poser evolved, the different companies distributing the software had created different install folders, thus adding multiple Runtime Folders, and many Content Creators did not keep up with the changes, while others crated their own version of what a Content Folder should be. Poser also introduce multiple folders, taking advantage of MSDOS's ability to read 255 items (not necessarily files) by allowing up to 255 folders in one folder, thus, we had many, many places to store Runtime Folders and many, many ways to take up HD space and get thoroughly lost while doing so.

Now DAZ comes up with Studio - yes, a bit rough around the edges at first, but what software out there has been used multinationally for a number of years and is still on build 1.0.0.0? So I have been using Studio since inception, and was thrilled with the idea of a set Content folder, only to be hit by the realization that these Content Creators still have no clue as to how to use the thing.:smirk:

Finally, the DIM! What a concept! How perfect! How wonderf... nuts. Installing to a Public Folder? What, are they insane? Yes, I know, security issues and blah, blah, blah, make this the easier choice, but, I'm a bit of a security freak. I won't use Facebook, and my daughter thinks I'm a dinosaur for it, but the fact remains that the top Anti-Virus Software manufacturers out there, have specially built software just for Facebook. Can you say Red Flag? But, I digress...

The upshot of all of this is that I have been moving and rearranging Content on my computer for years, and I really thought I was beyond that (yeah, I'm a dreamer), especially considering the cost of Carrara. I guess I expected a little better than this.
Don't get me wrong, I love what Carrara can do, I just don't like the way it does it.:shut:

Carrara should be, first and foremost, able to find, and maintain separation of, the Content that it can and cannot make use of at least as well as Studio, and that's not even 100% but it's a far sight better than Carrara in that respect.

As to how long I've been using Studio and DIM, It has been many years for Studio, but just the last few months for DIM. I have about 1500 items DIM has installed, and, at least, 200,000 form other sites, but I recently reinstalled, so probably only about 1,000 or so on my computer at this time, so about 2500 items, total right now.

So I have Content in several locations, and I am willing to go through the chore of moving it again, but the one thing DIM steps all over is the ability to categorize. Every time a file updates, you have to re-categorize it, and I am tired of that. I just want to spend some time enjoying the program, and less time reprogramming...

So, once again, thanks! I have read both of your posts and I am going to go through my content one file at a time, to get it into a single location that everybody will be happy with (except me, because all clues point to that one place being the Public Documents folder), and I would appreciate any other advice you have on this.

I hate to sound grumpy, You guys have been so very helpful since I got started with the Carrara Discussions. I'm just a bit tired and frustrated, and Ive missed two contest deadlines I was hoping to try for while dealing with these issues. I guess I just didn't consider the possible scope of these issues.
So, if I seem a bit gruff, please, accept my apologies. :down:

Since Win 7,. the "public documents" folder has been pushed by Microsoft, and adopted by most major software producers as the default (user files) location.
Daz3D,. and Smith Micro (poser) both use the public folder,. as does Adobe, Autodesk etc..
It's not a Daz only decision, and it makes a lot of sense.

Having user files mixed with Program files means more disk fragmentation,. and it's more likely that someone will delete, or move a program file,. when "organizing" their content files.

As for the Poser runtime folder structure,..
This is still the main structure used for most content. and it has to be done that way so that users can easily install content , and use it.

Carrara,. as an application,. doesn't actually need to use content from DS or Poser,.
However,. when you want to load content into Carrara from DS or Poser, then you have to deal with the folder structure used by those programs,.
It's not Carrara's fault that the Poser or DS folders are organised the way they are.
Carrara has to work with what's available.

Things are changing , with Smart content, and a central database,. where it becomes irrelevant where you physically installed the files,. as long as the database knows where they are it can display them in the content / smart content browser,.

People have used the "poser" folder structure for many years, and many products have been built to work with that structure,. so it's not an easy task to rebuild all those products,. and redefine that structure overnight.
but Daz3D are trying...

As for DIM
The Daz Install Manager can be used to create as many runtime / content folders as you want,. wherever you want.
Although there is a "Default" folder set up for you,.. you can change that. if you want to.

If you want to install content into another drive or a new folder, you can do that.

What's not recommended is,,.. Installing content using DIM,. into a folder which already contains content (not installed with DIM)
this is simply to avoid confusion,. if you have one product installed using the Daz installers,. then you install the same product using DIM,.. should the files be overwritten? archived? or keep both versions ?
Which version should the uninstaller remove,. ..which version should DIM remove.

Wherever you choose to install your content,.. once it's installed,. you need to point your software to use the new location.
and that applies to Daz Studio,. Poser, and Carrara.
any program where you're loading content, needs to know where your folders are, before it can find all the files within that structure.

If you have multiple runtime / content folders, then that means adding each runtime to the list of content folders available to those programs.

Carrara should be, first and foremost, able to find, and maintain separation of, the Content that it can and cannot make use of at least as well as Studio, and that’s not even 100% but it’s a far sight better than Carrara in that respect.

Daz Studio was built to use "Poser" Content, and later Daz Studio format,. and now DUF.
Carrara will support all of those.

If you're using the "Beta" of 8.5,..
bear in mind that it's a beta version , and it's not complete,. so it currently displays files and folders from DS which it cannot load,. EG: Uber-environment, daz sample scenes, daz lighting, camera's etc...

Hi 3DAGE,
Thanks for the input here. I think I am not being entirely clear; I will try to clear a few things up

Since Win 7,. the "public documents" folder has been pushed by Microsoft, and adopted by most major software producers as the default (user files) location.
Daz3D,. and Smith Micro (poser) both use the public folder,. as does Adobe, Autodesk etc..
It's not a Daz only decision, and it makes a lot of sense.

Having user files mixed with Program files means more disk fragmentation,. and it's more likely that someone will delete, or move a program file,. when "organizing" their content files.

As for the Poser runtime folder structure,..
This is still the main structure used for most content. and it has to be done that way so that users can easily install content , and use it.

I do understand and applaud the Runtime Folder and the Content Folder. That's not the issue. As well, I understand that having this in the Program Files was a mistake from day one. I just don't agree with the use of the Public Folder. I am only up to Vista, and I realize that puts me about 3 steps behind the latest OS, so I guess I should catch up on the latest security issues for the Public Folder, but in Vista, its a security nightmare.

As for the Content and Runtime Folders, they are fine, excellent actually. My issue here is with Content Creators. Individuals, Groups, or Companies, who choose to place their beloved content into a different folder, or don't understand the archivers they use enough to get that content to the right folder. For example: the "V3mertail.bmp" file loads directly into the Runtime Folder, not into Textures, or Templates, just plop, in the Runtime. And there are numerous products ot their that tell you to "extract to the [Runtime or Library Folder]" only to find the files buried in a folder that is duplicate of itself, i.e., Runtime>>Great Stuff>>GreatStuff>>..., or the more annoying Runtime>>User>>Poser>>Runtime>>Joe Schmuckawhack Products>>Great Stuff Working Files>>Great Stuff A32>>Victoria 4.9>>Clothes>>Undergarments>>Panties>>Aiko 3 Shoes by Joe Schmuckawack
So, that was an exageration, but not by much sometimes.
And I could write volumes on the ReadMe's Folder and the files within... this is probably the most disregarded and misused/abused Folder in the whole shootin' match (i.e., readme, ReadMe, Read me, My Stuff, Important, read me first, docs, doc documents... the list goes on). Rarely (percentages below 10 are considered rare) will you ever see a readme file that actually gives the product name, sku, or other identifier in the filename. And it's not just because the filenames used to be restricted to 8 characters and a single dot separating it from the extension which was limited to 3 characters. No, a well defined readme file can (then or now) be placed in unique folders under a master ReadMe's folder, and each of those unique folders can be further subdivided by three Folders:

---Do NOT place these inside the Runtime Folder---

ReadMe's>>MyProduct'sUniqueNameOrNumber>>Docs (for the documentation and/or readme file itself)
ReadMe's>>MyProduct'sUniqueNameOrNumber>>Pics (for image files, and believe me, every peice of content out there should contain at least one image file for quick reference)
ReadMe's>>MyProduct'sUniqueNameOrNumber>>Lic (for licensing texts, which should NOT be a part of your descriptive text if you want them to be understood properly)

As for the readme's themselves, they should be worth reading. There's nothing more annoying than to open a readme file only to see [a Joe Schmuckawhack product] - and nothing else.

People have used the "poser" folder structure for many years, and many products have been built to work with that structure,. so it's not an easy task to rebuild all those products,. and redefine that structure overnight.
but Daz3D are trying...

I realize this as well, that's why I own so many DAZ products. Again, the main issue is, well, see above.

Carrara should be, first and foremost, able to find, and maintain separation of, the Content that it can and cannot make use of at least as well as Studio, and that’s not even 100% but it’s a far sight better than Carrara in that respect.

Daz Studio was built to use "Poser" Content, and later Daz Studio format,. and now DUF.
Carrara will support all of those.

If you're using the "Beta" of 8.5,..
bear in mind that it's a beta version , and it's not complete,. so it currently displays files and folders from DS which it cannot load,. EG: Uber-environment, daz sample scenes, daz lighting, camera's etc...

Ok, I'm willing to admit that was not considered, but I was getting highly frustrated and was overly tired...sorry about that. I didn't take into mind the Beta, so I just hope they take care of a few things before they close the Beta. The empty folders are annoying.

As far as having multiple Runtimes and Libraries, I am trying not to. I am trying to make as few as possible, but I am also trying to gather my data into the Manufacturer's Default Folders, even if I mistrust this, and trying to be as understanding as I can. The problem therein is with the Manufacturer, in this case DAZ, not working across the board on their products, but rather, doing them one at a time. I don't know how large DAZ is, I imagine them to be a fairly large outfit, but I suppose they may indeed have fewer people working on these programs than it seems, and if that's the case, even more Kudos for such great work with such a limited staff, but Bryce has only a Preset folder in Public, Studio, via DIM, has virtually everything there, and Carrara and Hexagon have nothing there at all. (This reminds me, I have questions regarding the Presets, but I will start a new thread for that)

And actually, this thread has gone just a tad off topic, but I will continue this in a new post, as this one is getting large...

The main issue, with the Gen 5 characters, I now realize, is that the DIM never loaded them. The Manifest Files are in place, and the Zip Archive Files are there, but DIM isn't loading them for some reason.

I have done some downsizing, and relocating (to the default folders) and try as I might, DIM isn't loading my Gen 5's. So I, with the help of 7-zip, have installed them manually, but the underlying problem still remains, and I have no idea how to get them installed via DIM.

[EDIT] Just FYI, This is the method I used to get them in place:

I copy and pasted the files to ...>>New Folder
Using 7-zip, I extracted these archives into "New Folder" directly, i.e., 'extract here' as opposed to 'extract to...'
I then copy and pasted the 'Content' folder from ...>>New Folder to C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library (default location)

Now all of my Gen 5's can be found, via Carrara's Browser, in My DAZ 3D Library>>Content>>People>>Genesis>>Characters, which is, I hope, where they are meant to be.

Now I can't find the Morphs ++ injectors, so I have to load 330 morphs into each character. (hours of work there)
This is one of the complaints I have with Carrara--I should be able to click a file, then shift click another to group, oh say, 330 morphs and move them all onto the actor at once.

The Manifest Files are in place, and the Zip Archive Files are there, but DIM isn’t loading them for some reason.

Did you download the files from your account using DIM ?

DIM should download the zip from your account,. and then install the files to the location you specify.

Once that's done, you should see the content displayed in the Smart Content tab in Carrara8.5 beta, or DS4.5
or for older Gen4 content, it will appear in the Runtime or Content folders in the browser.

Bear in mind that Genesis figures need to know where genesis (base) is, so normally Genesis figures are installed to the same location as your base genesis figure,.EG: My Daz3D Library,.. since genesis is the base figure for all of the other gen5 figures.

The Manifest Files are in place, and the Zip Archive Files are there, but DIM isn’t loading them for some reason.

Did you download the files from your account using DIM ?

DIM should download the zip from your account,. and then install the files to the location you specify.

Exactly. that's what it should do, but for my Gen 5's, it did NOT
I have, currently, 1437 items installed via DIM. I only had to manually install the Gen 5's.
That is why this is so puzzling to me.

Once that's done, you should see the content displayed in the Smart Content tab in Carrara8.5 beta, or DS4.5
or for older Gen4 content, it will appear in the Runtime or Content folders in the browser.

Bear in mind that Genesis figures need to know where genesis (base) is, so normally Genesis figures are installed to the same location as your base genesis figure,.EG: My Daz3D Library,.. since genesis is the base figure for all of the other gen5 figures.

[EDIT]
This is where they are now. (see attached image 001) although ideally, I'd prefer them to be here (see image 002), or at least under this folder.

Along with that, the image 001 shows two Michael 5 Heroic images, as well as a lot of duplicates in other places. One of these is a DSF and the other is a DUF. Is there any way to make Carrara tell you which is which? I instinctively know that the first is the DSF, since it comes first alphabetically, but isn't there a way to display this?

Okay Stat,
Can I call you Stat?
Alright, I just read your entire response to my latest. Sorry, My mini dog (mini Dachshund) is recovering too quickly from a slipped disc and is a total hand full right now - so I've been away from my PCs.
I'll catch up with what was said in between soon, I promise. I can feel your frustration. 3dage and I (amongst many others here) have helped many people from these things even though Carrara is truly not the app to blame for it. But it uses these directories, so it's often a great way to start your Carrara endeavors, is by making sure that all of this mumbo jumbo junk is fixed and ready to go - tee hee hee!

I totally hear ya on Face Book. At first because of security issue, and now just because - Man... I just don't have enough time for such a thing! Wow can people ever spend a lot of time doing nothing else! Whew!

Anyways, I'm really glad that you have a long Poser background - as that should make everything easier. The hardest part sounds like your dealings with the DIM. Am I to understand that, when you install an item to a specific location with the DIM, and then it finds an update, it won't automatically update to where it was installed? That's too bad. Perhaps once in goes beyond beta?

I am no D|S user - but I want to eventually use it as part of my workflow, as I've been very impressed with my relations with it and its bridge to and from Hexagon for making custom morphs - nothing to do with your issue, but I'd like to get more into that fairly soon.

So the content directory of D|S is new to me. I wish I could be of more help other than speculation. I'm wondering, if you like the "My Library" in your User side better than the "My Daz3D Library" from the Public side, perhaps it would be easier on the nerves to have DIM uninstall everything from the "My Daz3D Library" folder? That's what I did - even though it was a lot of stuff. I haven't yet re-installed that stuff yet. Most of it I already downloaded in the usual way and installed to my various runtime allocations - back before DIM recently came out.

Enough about that right now, until I read more of what you and 3dage were talking about.

Carrara is incredibly better in that regard. I'll show you!
For published artists, we're supposed to stick to a specific file structure. But the same goes for D|S PAs, so there's always the possibility for someone to mess with things. The thing is, when we don't use the predefined browser structure, the content location won't show up at all - until you tell the browser to include that special folder. Once done, that folder goes to the bottom of that browser list. I always try to make my stuff fall into one of the categories set up by the structure created with the installation of the Native Content for Carrara. Then my folders are just there for use without adding anything new.

For your own saves, this is where Carrara gets slick - because it gives you the option, when saving, to include all resources in that saved file, or to leave textures and objs, etc., in their native locations and just save the Carrara information - which is how I normally save to keep resources low.

In your User "My Documents" > "DAZ3D" folder, there should be "Carrara 8" if you have 8.xxx(but not 5) installed. If you've only installed Carrara 8.5, and you don't have such a folder, create one and call it "Carrara 8.5"
Inside that folder, create "My Presets" unless it already exists. Inside that you want, at the minimum:
My Clips
My Objects
My Shaders

What those three folders will do is to create a category at the 'top' of the list for each of those tabs.
Within those folders, it's a good idea to start with a minimum folder structure created around the types of things you'd like to save.
For example:
Within "My Objects" you could have a folder for Animals, Creatures, or those two could be a combined folder, whatever. Another called People, and within that: Gen 5, Gen 4, Heores, Villains, etc., Another for interiors and one for Exteriors, or several of each for different genres, or that organization could take place within the single categories mentioned - however you find it convenient to organize your saves.

Clips will be made when it comes time when you'd like to save poses and animations within Carrara's browser structure, in a format that Carrara can create on its own. Therefore this structure could have the same folder names and structures you've used for Creatures and People.

Shaders should have a structure similar to the entire My Objects folder structure, so that you have a simple organization of places to save your new Carrara shaders. We'll get into that as you become more familiar with using Carrara.

The biggest reason to set up a nice structure like this is because once you bring something in from either a D|S directory or a runtime, you'll need to make some sort of changes to it, to optimize it for Carrara. At the very least, this is the Shaders of the object. Once you've gone through some of these changes, it's a great Idea to save it off into your browser for future use in Carrara, rather than having to make all of those changes again. I'll often make a V4 Actress character that has basic textures and the default shader setting that I like to use on Humans. Once done, In the texture room, I'll drag the multi-colored ball at the top right into a proper location in My Shaders, and then, back in the Assembly Room I'll drag the figure into it's proper place within My Objects. Then I will go on finishing off the character as planned with morphs and textures, etc., and save off new version for that specific character. I do the same with Light rigs in my "My Objects > Lighting" folder and scenes with various light and/or texture settings in their proper places as well.

Using Carrara's NLA (non-linear animation) clips technology, I'll load in a walk cycle and create a clip of everything from the hip down and svae it that way in y Clips structure - somewhere where I'll know immediately that its only the hip down. then another from the abdomen to the head, but not the collars or arms and save that. Then finally one for each arm. In this way, I can build animations in pieces that I know will work together, or I can experiment with ones I'm not so sure about. I'll often use a clip of a walk cycle that includes everything but the arms and head. Then I can make my own arm and head movements for the animation using key frames.

Wow, how I love the power of animating in Carrara! But I love the power of the browser in the above example as well. It doesn't require all of those extra places for which pieces of the file go. I already have my runtimes, so leaving the files use those structures for me is fine. But if you have a large drive, you can save everything within the .car file - and no other file structures are needed for that object.

Oh... and I forgot to mention that, up until the 8.5 beta, Carrara really didn't even let you see the folders that Carrara couldn't use. The devs had to remove some of that during their endeavors with Genesis compatibility - and have apologized for it. So in those empty folders, there's likely stuff in there, but Carrara simply can't make use of it, so the files are invisible to it and you. You can see entire folder structures of a runtime by selecting a runtime and going to the small dark page-looking icon just above the upper right corner of the browser and choosing: Reveal Hidden, or whatever words they use. This is also where you add runtimes to your content tab.

Please ask more questions when you have them.
Also, it almost never bothers me if you reveal your frustration to me in here. I'm here to help and to listen - out of my own accord. I get a charge out of helping my fellow Carraraists! ;)

This is where they are now. (see attached image 001) although ideally, I'd prefer them to be here (see image 002), or at least under this folder.
This is the DIM default installation directory. So far, I'm planning to use this directory for all of my Genesis products - keep them all, but only them, in one spot. The older D|S "My Library" was my only other spot I used for that stuff, and only that stuff. So, for me, it was a simple case of deleting the folder. The stuff I bought at other stores had nothing to do with Genesis, luckily for me.Along with that, the image 001 shows two Michael 5 Heroic images, as well as a lot of duplicates in other places. One of these is a DSF and the other is a DUF. Is there any way to make Carrara tell you which is which? I instinctively know that the first is the DSF, since it comes first alphabetically, but isn't there a way to display this?

I have a feeling that this will be addressed. It would be a good idea to check the Bug Reports for such a thing, and issue a new one if it doesn't exist. Hate to throw more on your plate. If you don't want to take the time to create a new account and do all of that, let me know and I'll try to squeeze it in. BTW, Help (or is it Web?) > Submit Bug Report (or similar) within Carrara is how I get there - but your Daz3d account doesn't work as a login - so you need to make a new one. I just use the same name and pw as my Daz account to keep things simpler for me.

I know that, at one point, they were thinking that build 172 of the beta would be the actual release version - then something came up and the devs (to much hatred of many users) disappeared without notice. I think they may have been temporarily pulled to help create this DIM. But they'll get back on track. Now would be a great time to file this bug, if it isn't there already. But they likely know about this and have a remedy in the works.

The issue of double icons is one of the things which has still to be dealt with in the current beta,.

The problem is that Daz Studio is rigged to show only DS icons where a product is supplied for both Poser and DS,. and carrara is built to show Poser, DS, and many other content file types, including Carrara's own files.

One way to eliminate the issue right now,. is to only have one version installed,. preferably the Daz Studio (DUF) version.

None of the Genesis stuff should be in DSF format,. it should all be in DUF format,.. or Poser CR2.(from the DSON poser versions)

Is it possible that you've installed the Poser versions,. if so,. those will show up in the smart content browser, but because those are made to be loaded using the Poser DSON converter, ..they wont load into Cararra,. Only the DUF versions will load

Poser DSON files only open in Poser 9 or Poser Pro 2012,. with the DSON importer plugin.

My advice would be to uninstal the genesis figures,. (this is now easy to do with DIM).. then check that none of them show up in the Content / smart content browsers,. then re-install only the DS versions of genesis and the gen5 figures.

Exactly. that’s what it should do, but for my Gen 5’s, it did NOT
I have, currently, 1437 items installed via DIM. I only had to manually install the Gen 5’s.
That is why this is so puzzling to me

.

DIM creates a log file,. (Text file) which you can open and read through,. this may give you some idea as to why any product failed to download or install,. other than that,. I've not heard of a product downloading successfully,..but then not installing, either automatically, or manually from within DIM.

Any error massages in DIM ?

As long as the product has been downloaded,. and either the option to install after downloading is enabled, and the folder selected is the correct location for that file type,. then the product should install automatically.
Or,. the auto-install option is disabled,. then the product will be available in the "Ready to install" panel,..and you'd then choose an install location, and hit the install button.

There's no point in unzipping or extracting the contents of a downloaded Zip file manually to a folder and not using DIM to do that for you,. and it'll add the product entry to the CMS database at the same time.

None of the Genesis stuff should be in DSF format,. it should all be in DUF format,.. or Poser CR2.(from the DSON poser versions)

Is it possible that you've installed the Poser versions,. if so,. those will show up in the smart content browser, but because those are made to be loaded using the Poser DSON converter, ..they wont load into Cararra,. Only the DUF versions will load

That would be easier if DAZ would make clear which files are Poser Only and which are Studio Only. They used to before they screwed up the website. Now you can no longer tell them to not show Poser downloads, heck you can't even sort your itemized history these days. I used to face palm at some of the issues people have had with DAZ in the past. It was a simple, easy to understand and utilize system. But since the reconstruction, some of the most basic necessities of a smooth operation seem to have been tossed out the window.
DAZ3D.com used to be user friendly, regardless of a user's skill level. Lately that has gone by the wayside, and the Site seems to have been written by those Tech-speak, Leeters we used to make fun of.

When DAZ updates a product, unless you are a Forum-groupie, there is no notification of changes or updates. In the old days, I got emails from DAZ every time they dotted a "t" or crossed an "i" it seems. I was always in-the-know as to when, what and how to update. What was wrong with that? Change has always been inevitable, inaccurate and rarely necessary.

I know that the DIM has check boxes for what to include and exclude, but the DSFs were there (in the Studio directory) long before DIM came to be. I had know idea that the DSF's were Poser only as in Studio, you can use both on a Genesis product. DUFs will basically update an existing figure while DSFs will add a new figure (I may have that the other way around, but I have made many multi-Genesis scenes using those two filetypes in this manner.

My advice would be to uninstal the genesis figures,. (this is now easy to do with DIM).. then check that none of them show up in the Content / smart content browsers,. then re-install only the DS versions of genesis and the gen5 figures.

I am a bit skeptical on that, but I will give that a try. I don't want you to think I am unwilling to use your advice. I have followed each step, so far. I merely mention being skeptical as I am loathe to lose any productivity in Studio. But I will back them up thoroughly and give it a go. :)

DIM creates a log file,. (Text file) which you can open and read through,. this may give you some idea as to why any product failed to download or install,. other than that,. I've not heard of a product downloading successfully,..but then not installing, either automatically, or manually from within DIM.

That's even more puzzling... DIM's log says it installed each of the GEN 5's, but it, in fact, did not.

Any error massages in DIM ?

Only twice, and neither time involved a Gen 5. In both instances, the file in question was retried, and successfully downloaded and installed.

As long as the product has been downloaded,. and either the option to install after downloading is enabled, and the folder selected is the correct location for that file type,. then the product should install automatically.
Or,. the auto-install option is disabled,. then the product will be available in the "Ready to install" panel,..and you'd then choose an install location, and hit the install button.

That's how it is supposed to work, and, in fact, has worked on every other item I have installed using DIM.

There's no point in unzipping or extracting the contents of a downloaded Zip file manually to a folder and not using DIM to do that for you,. and it'll add the product entry to the CMS database at the same time.

Unfortunately, that is the only way I could get the Gen 5's to work.

I thought the DIM was recently labeled out of Beta, but what I read actually said released in Beta, but it was offered to me about a month before that as a Beta, so I didn't read it that closely.

I guess I can report this as a bug, but that means putting all the files back exactly as I had them, deleting the whole DIM structure, reinstalling, and trying again so I can (hopefully?) recreate the problem. I really don't want to do that... :-P

Hopefully this will wash out in the release.
In the meantime, I will put your tips in motion.

I read most of your post and I am working through some changes at the moment, 3DAGE has some interesting points I'm looking into and a few ideas I sprouted on my own (hey, that's an accomplishment these days, let me tell you).

I understand dog issues. I have always considered my priorities to be Family, Pets, Computers, Friends, then whatever else life throws.

I have a Husky and she's always coming up with something for me to do that's more important than lunch or war.

I am glad you are so upbeat and ready to help. Those are dwindling quantities in this day and age (or maybe in this neighborhood, hard to tell).

I'll get back to you later if more issues irrupt or if I run aground on any of this. Thanks!

I agree with your remarks about the new store. I do realize that they were having to devote way too much time (and duct tape! lol) to the old store and forums to keep it working, and still have it crash from time to time - and feel for their frustration in that. Still not sure they made the right decision on what product to choose for a store/forum format if this is the best they could do in this much time. We used to be able to hide all MacOS products - not now - and it's a bit of a pain. And I, too, hate the lack of identification as to which files you need for what, with the new system. It's all to confusing and that can have the effect of scaring away potential customers. It just plain sucks!

Well, I just proved that the Genesis figures require the DSF files in Studio. I ran a search on *.dsf and deleted all of my dsf files to the recycle bin. I then started Studio and Genesis will not load in textured format. All you get are the Bounding Boxes. I then restored all the dsf's to their original location and restarted Studio. The Genesis figure loads as normal. Thus, the dsf's are required for Studio and must be endured in Carrara unless you have no plans for using Genesis in Carrara and no plans for using Studio. Hopefully the Carrara Devs will get it sorted, because its quite distracting to have duplicate figures.

Carrara 8.5 (BETA) will read and load DUF files. DSF is also DUF or DSON Daz3D formats.
they're all new,.. and all still confusing.

you may have two different versions of the products installed,. that would also give you two icons for those products.

My advice is to Uninstall those genesis products using the "Daz Install Manager" (DIM)
not by manually selecting and removing files by type.

Check that they're gone from your program browsers.

install the Daz Studio version of the Genesis figures.

Check that the figures show in your programs.

I think the issue is that you may have installed the Daz Studio versions,.. and the Poser DSON versions,. Both of these will show icons in the carrara browser,. since one product is Daz , and one is Poser CR2 (see pic)

Having two version installed,. is the only reason you would have two icons showing up

you'll also notice that the basic male and female are the only doubled icons in that folder. (Installed as an example)

Also,.. bear in mind that we're all using a Beta version, so it's not fully developed.

Ah, well, a miscommunication. That would explain much. I had only one location for my Genesis stuff, after cleaning up my latest mess here. I made sure of that. I spent many hours (with energy boosters, cold packs, electricity surges, and caffeine to keep me at it, man I'm gonna pay for this one) cleaning up my latest goof, but I now have the locations clean, and tidy. I uninstalled everything via the DIM, then uninstalled the DIM, then cleared out and deleted every directory that the uninstalls left behind. The I did the same procedure with every Genesis item in Studio, regardless of it being affected by the earlier problems.
I reinstalled DIM, checked and double-checked the settings so that they duplicate what I had before.
Now, though, there are 366 items that will not install... "Install Failed!"
In the log I get lines similar to this:

So, I tracked down the zip file for, in this case, "Bug Hunt".
I then opened the zip in an archive manager so I could see a list all of its files.
I went to the location, in My DAZ 3D Library, where these files should have unzipped to, only to find them all in their proper place.
So, I compared the files in place, to the files in the zip. They were all identical files, no corruption during extraction, no problems at all.

I did this for about 50 zips that were labeled as "Install Failed!". I figured that was a pretty good number for assuming they were all clean. I cannot understand why they failed.

And, not one of the failed files was a Genesis figure or Genesis related content.

Dump DIM. My methods may be archaic by the new DAZ standard but guess what? I don't have these issues.
Right now I am running 21 runtimes and the studio "my library". Most everything loads and works with out error; I have a few items I still have to chase down textures for I blame bad runtime calls.

And considering I have 165gig of content and am working on retiring/archiving older content, It's not like I wont have to reinstall a few hundred items. As in I have retired the old Mil3 preschoolers, but I want the best clothes to convert to Kid 4. The best way I found to do it was to just build/install to a new runtime and delete the old one. I intend to do the same for mil2 and 3 figures.

I have never made it a secret I don't trust CMS, I don't need help organizing my content and I most assuredly don't need help downloading and installing it. It has always been my philosophy if you want something done right, do it yourself. ;)

DIM might work nicely with CMS, but the two are not the same.
Probably the best way to reinstall your Gen 3 kids clothes would be to use the DIM to make a new runtime folder for them. From that point forward, you can use the DIM to update, uninstall, check the readme for where the textures got installed, etc.,

Ok, I solved the problem (my bad, when I cleaned out the old folders, I left the ini file in there and that caused a major snafu). I have everything loading properly now, at least as proper as DIM can. I kinda want to go along with ManStan on this though. Allowing DIM to load everything still leaves many files in the wrong place. DAZ still doesn't have things in order here, I guess.

I mean, I have a Library folder with a Runtime folder and a Content folder. Inside the content folder is another Runtime Folder and another Content folder, and inside that is yet another Runtime folder.

In addition, DIM has provided me with three folders containing Aiko 3 Clothes and four containing Stephanie 3 clothes. The problem here, is that I don't know how the folders are going to load until I tell them to, and If I rearrange the folders to better organize my content, then DIM no longer knows where that content is, so it cannot properly update it.

My DAZ items, at least the ones DIM will load, number just about 1500 in 131,368 files, contained in 19,632 folders. That's just DAZ products which account for approximately 35% of my currently installed 3D content items. That's a lot of rearranging, and one mistake can set the whole thing on fire.

I enjoy the speed at which the DIM gets things done, but I wish they would consider adding a feature which lets you set the structure of your Library, Content, and Runtime folders (I know complete autonomy here would be useless, as well as disastrous, but picked from a small list of the most common structures). Then, as it is installing, it could flag, and not install, any content which doesn't match your configuration. Or, it could load those files into a separate Library, which the user can name, allowing you to handle these non-conformist files as you wish. These would not have uninstallers, but that's the way with most, if not all, non-DAZ content anyway, so users would be quite used to that.

Better still, in addition to the above changes, add in a function that allows the DIM to install non-DAZ content (zip, rar, exe, etc.. from other creators) without uninstallers, but that fit the same structure you chose above, and deals with non-conforming structures in the same manner as outlined above.

It would not be that big of an add to the current DIM to do something along these lines, because as great as DIM could be if fixed, it could be greater if it could be used for all (well, a great majority of) content.

So, I have my content in order, Carrara is showing it in the right spot (most of it), I still have some items showing two icons, namely Victoria 5, Stephanie 5, and Michael 5, but at least they are there, now. Better to have two than none, eh?

I am going to trod on with getting to know Carrara, now, and I wanted to thank you guys all for your input and advice. It has helped a lot.

3DAGE, your a very patient person, and I am grateful for your help.
Dartanbeck, you are a font of information, and I know we didn't work through all the questions and comments. I will reread the thread over the next few days, and see what I missed.
ManStan, I'm curious about the "Scotty quote", but I think I know what it is...something to do with intelligent life, I suspect.
Everyone else, thanks for your help.

Good to see you're getting somewhere,. but if you still have two icons, then you missed something.

Allowing DIM to load everything still leaves many files in the wrong place

Can you elaborate in that,..
DIM will only install files to the location you direct it to, whether that's a Content Library or a Runtime folder

I have a Library folder with a Runtime folder and a Content folder. Inside the content folder is another Runtime Folder and another Content folder, and inside that is yet another Runtime folder.

Can you make a note of the products inside those folders,. then they can be updated to install correctly.

in the mad rush to get the entire store converted,. (still a WIP) there have been a few products which weren't checked thoroughly enough, and got through,. most have been updated,. so it's worth unintalling and updating those products.

In addition, DIM has provided me with three folders containing Aiko 3 Clothes and four containing Stephanie 3 clothes. The problem here, is that I don’t know how the folders are going to load until I tell them to, and If I rearrange the folders to better organize my content, then DIM no longer knows where that content is, so it cannot properly update it.

I think you and Stan are both misunderstanding what DIM is and does.

firstly,. developers don't develop products in a random fashion,. they have to follow a defined set of folders so that the user can easily install and use that product in DS or Poser.

To "Organize your content" does not mean manually rearranging files. (which usually breaks links between the product files)
You can organize your main Runtime or Library folders, the way you want,. and have as many as you want,.. and use dim to install products into those locations.

As far as organising the "visual display" of content,,. you can use Daz Studio (category view) to create "virtual" categories,. then place content (Virtually) into those categories,..
All without moving a single file,. and all without breaking the links between any product files.

You select which folder which DIM installs products to,. and you can set up as many "Install locations" as you want,.
as long as you use DIM to install a product,., two things will happen.

1,/ DIM creates an entry for that product,. so that it can be updated,.. or uninstalled.
2./ DIM will add the products metadata to the CMS database.

That CMS Database info, supplies the "Smart content" tab's in DS and Carrara 8.5 BETA,. with the product thumbnails.

So in Carrara, or DS,. ..after installing a product,. it will either show up in the Smart content tab, or the Content Tab

You lost me completely when you asked about installing products to a custom folder layout for your runtime.

Products are created using a "FIXED" folder structure,. if you deviate in a folder name,. then that product will be rejected by Daz3D, because it wont work for the user.

So the folder structure isn't something that developers can ignore,. they need to work to the existing Runtime / Libraries structure
it's also really not advisable to install products and then move files to a location which you feel is better,.. for whatever reason.
Use DIM to install the product "Exactly" where you want it.

As for Stan, and the paranoia with using CMS,..
Two questions,..

1./ What important information from your computer system,...could (potentially) be of use to Daz3D
2./ with the option to work Off-Line,. and the ability to work while unconnected to the internet,.. when / how would this information be transferred.

To install third party "Zip" files,. those Zip files would need to be made to work in DIM, in the same way that Daz3D have been converting all of the products in the store into ZIP.
It's not some new "feature" which needs to be added to DIM,. it's the Zips.

Lastly,. DIM is a first release,. it's a "beta" and it's being updated to allow it to install products for Bryce, Carrara, and other software.
so,. it's by no means a finished product.
I'm glad you're seeing some potential in using it.

Oh I know what DIM does, but it doesn't do what I can do and that is double check content before install. That is why my runtimes run smoothly and I don't need uninstallers. Zips I unzip, check folders and load to carrara before installing to my runtimes. Installers I install to a dummy folder to do the same thing.

3DAGE you know as well as I do the DS content folder is a drop it where you like folder structure. Every time I have this sorted and delete all the extraneous folders the next time I install something it's a mess again.

And I can't get in to my opinion of CMS it would just get this post pulled as my opinion of it has been so many times in the past.

Now let me show you something that would bring DIM to it's knees, my V4 zips folder; note this is just up to "D". The folder is 7gig.

My Daz Library folder, where I've been installing products using DIM, is just over 80gb so far,
so,. DIM would handle your V4 stuff easily. ...It's what it's built to do.

One benefit of using DIM , is to allow you to "manage" where products are installed.
You create a folder,. you install content there,.

but it doesn’t do what I can do and that is double check content before install.

I don't see why being able to open the zip archive and see the compressed files,.. before extracting them,. is a useful thing.
It doesn't allow you to change the path structure of the extracted files,. or check that all the files are there. or check that the product will actually function before you install it.

If you really wanted to Download a zip, using DIM,. then Open and view the compressed files,.
then you'd do it exactly the way you're doing it now., . select the downloaded Zip file and Open it.

If you're not using Dim to install products,. then the issue you'll run into when unzipping file manually,. will be with "Smart content", since you're not using DIM, to update the CMS database, then you'll need to have Daz Studio installed,. and open that, after any product installations, to allow it to update the CMS.and supply smart content.

The Daz Studio structure, allows you to "Categorise" content in "virtual" folders,.. (like short-cuts)
The actual content "files" are installed to your library of choice,. and don't need to be moved.
Then you'd create a category,. EG: Sci-Fi ,.. then you drag n drop products into that category.

That allows you to re-arrange your products "Virtually" and doesn't effect the physical files.

Installing content has been a major issue with new users, and some of the most common questions here are from people asking where files should be installed,. or How to organize their runtime folders.

This happens regularly with Carrara too. So if there's a way to make that installation process easier and simpler to do,... then why not.

So many attempts by people to "organise" their content, result in products not functioning, or products reporting errors when looking for associated files. because the user has moved files or renamed folders etc...

While there may not be a simple solution to the issue of Content and user customisation, DIM is a step forward in helping to make the Installation and management process easier, and Smart content is a huge leap forward in making content easier and simpler to work with once it's installed.

If you don't want to use Genesis or Smart content, or DIM,,.... that's your choice,.
but bear in mind that Smart content is at the beginning of it's development, and so is DIM,. eventually there will be more smart content than Not smart,.
Eventually all your 3D software and plugins will be installed using DIM,. ... not just content.

My Daz Library folder, where I've been installing products using DIM, is just over 80gb so far,
so,. DIM would handle your V4 stuff easily. ...It's what it's built to do.

One benefit of using DIM , is to allow you to "manage" where products are installed.
You create a folder,. you install content there,.

but it doesn’t do what I can do and that is double check content before install.

I don't see why being able to open the zip archive and see the compressed files,.. before extracting them,. is a useful thing.
It doesn't allow you to change the path structure of the extracted files,. or check that all the files are there. or check that the product will actually function before you install it.

Huh? I just open the unzipped folder, go down through checking folders are in the right place,, get to the item to be tested, double click and it opens in carrara. If it opens, and everything loads fine, then I drag and drop it in to the proper runtime. DIM can't do that. Since I check before I install, I don't need uninstallers.

If you're not using Dim to install products,. then the issue you'll run into when unzipping file manually,. will be with "Smart content", since you're not using DIM, to update the CMS database, then you'll need to have Daz Studio installed,. and open that, after any product installations, to allow it to update the CMS.and supply smart content.

The Daz Studio structure, allows you to "Categorise" content in "virtual" folders,.. (like short-cuts)
The actual content "files" are installed to your library of choice,. and don't need to be moved.
Then you'd create a category,. EG: Sci-Fi ,.. then you drag n drop products into that category.

And PAs doing this is why my library wont stay sorted. I like a hard and fast, everything in it's place and a place for everything file format.

That allows you to re-arrange your products "Virtually" and doesn't effect the physical files.

No doesn't effect any more then making things hard to find.

Installing content has been a major issue with new users, and some of the most common questions here are from people asking where files should be installed,. or How to organize their runtime folders.

Hey, they want it done for them rather then learning how to do it them selves, I don't care. They're loss.

This happens regularly with Carrara too. So if there's a way to make that installation process easier and simpler to do,... then why not.

Because that would be giving the man the fish rather then teaching them to fish.

So many attempts by people to "organise" their content, result in products not functioning, or products reporting errors when looking for associated files. because the user has moved files or renamed folders etc...

Yes.

While there may not be a simple solution to the issue of Content and user customisation, DIM is a step forward in helping to make the Installation and management process easier, and Smart content is a huge leap forward in making content easier and simpler to work with once it's installed.

No. Knowing where your content, textures, objects are located makes it easier to work with content. But then for me "working with content" doesn't just mean loading it. ;)

If you don't want to use Genesis or Smart content, or DIM,,.... that's your choice,.
but bear in mind that Smart content is at the beginning of it's development, and so is DIM,. eventually there will be more smart content than Not smart,. Eventually all your 3D software and plugins will be installed using DIM,. ... not just content.

I use Genesis quite well, CMS and DIM are not a prerequisite.
That is one of my dooms day fears.

The fact is no matter whom pushes it how hard, you really don't need them. I certainly don't.

I use Genesis quite well, CMS and DIM are not a prerequisite.
That is one of my dooms day fears.

The fact is no matter whom pushes it how hard, you really don't need them. I certainly don't.

I'm certainly not afraid of CMS. I've tried it out for a bit, and it is very non-evasive on the system resources. But I agree that both are entirely unnecessary. While I do love the convenience of DIM entirely automating all of those dreaded double-clicks, as long as the other option remains possible, people afraid of it have no need to use it.
I remain a content location finding person over the Smart Content. I just don't like how it throws everything into the browser window. For people who either don't know where to look, or that don't know what goes with what, I think it might be a handy tool. Personally, I'd rather go to the place where the loader files reside and load from there.

I noticed now that I still have to get used to the new library system before I judge it further. All of the folders that I thought would contain files appear as empty in 8.5beta - so I guess PAs should feel free to mess up that structure all they want, if Daz is going to let them anyways. I have a feeling that the official release will do a better job of hiding unnecessary folders? It would definitely help avoid confusion. I'm still running my runtimes as well - so that's where I've been going to - since I know that better.

My report card so far:
All in all, DIM and CMS are not needed to run content in 8.5 beta.
DIM just rocks, and I don't think my mind will ever change on that front. I could install stuff in my sleep if it wasn't so darned fast! No more double-clicky, answer a million check boxes and ok buttons for this guy!
CMS - I guess I could see where some might use it - but it's just not for me.

However, it still seems to me that, to get the best resulting service from DIM would be to use it to install everything - so you benefit from all that it has to offer - which is very beneficial. You can always keep what you have and dump it off on another drive if you're afraid to lose it.