what is love?

Interests:Lots and lots...here are some of my favs.....<br>Singing (music in general) and dance, gardening, travel,<br>reading, learning and exploring the known and unknown

Posted 08 October 2004 - 08:24 AM

Yes, it is well put, but I don't think it really is an answer to the original
question posted. YES we (people, and all living creatures) spend the
majority of time seeking love. Part of that is just life trying to renew
itself. We as humans, allegedly, are "supposed" to have more reasoning
ability than other species (I'm not sure that's always true, HAHA), but
anyway, so we look for a relationship and not just procreation. As far as
making oneself look appealing, well OF COURSE WE ALL TRY!!!!!!! For
goodness sake, as shallow as it sounds, and I'm guilty of it too, even though
I hate to think I am, looks are the basis of the attraction side of a relationship.
And much as I hate to admit this, it's been going on since time began,
scientists have done research, certain traits lend themselves to having
more chance of reproducing. That's life I guess, like it or not! I do believe
the question was more about the emotinal side of being "in love". Why we
fall and why it hurts.

Ah but in essence that was my point. The vast majority of people do not focus on, and therefore do not take into account, the emotional side of Love. At least not until they are already involved with someone based solely on the physical.

It's those people who are "hurt" when things do not work out because the emotional developed during the course of a relationship. Humans very rarely do not realize the consequences of their actions until it's too late. There is a price that is paid for everything an individual does. Whether they see the manifistation of that price or not.

This happens primarily because of what is focused on initially. A lot of people "fall in love" because they are attracted to someone. Never once stopping to think about if what they are feeling is merely lust, and thus nature simply exerting it's "renewing" instinct. They act on what they perceive, and then lament about the consequences later.

As for life renewing itself, that is basic nature and has nothing to do with love. Humans are the only beings proven to have the capability for that emotion. Procreation is instinct. Not love.

Interests:Lots and lots...here are some of my favs.....<br>Singing (music in general) and dance, gardening, travel,<br>reading, learning and exploring the known and unknown

Posted 08 October 2004 - 09:49 AM

Yes, I know, I realize that. All I was saying is that I thought the original
question was only dealing the spiritual side of being in love and why we
fall and why it can hurt so much. Now I am asking, based on your post,
Is it possible to fall in love without both physical and spiritual attraction?

Men's love lies not in their hearts but in their eyes.......Shakespeare

Now back to the original question.......
Why is it that despite all the attractive people in the world (lust) and
all the fun and loving people in the world (our friends and family) for
companionship and having common interests and for being able to be
free to be exactly who we are at all times, why do we fall in love with a
specific person beyond lust it hits our soul and wounds us or fills us with
such joy beyond anyoneles we know?
All that you stated was true, but not the answer to this question.

Men's love lies not in their hearts but in their eyes.......Shakespeare

Shakespear was a homosexual.

The convenience, security, and satisfaction of the "stereotype". Especially the male stereotype.

It would be easy, and some would argue justified, to take offense to such a statement, even if it was originally said by someone else. It would even be pertinent to say such a quote was unnecissary and ask that such stereotypical quotes be rephrained from in the future.

I cannot however do or say any of the above.

You see I've been there myself. I am just as guilty of stereotyping women. When considering the vast majority of women out there I am STILL iniquitous of it. As I stated previously, in my experience women are by FAR worse than men could ever hope to be. Having been aggrieved by women numerous times myself I fell into the stereotype trap. It's safe. It's an accommodating shield. And very easy to fall back on when in an uncomfortable situation.

It's biggest trait however is its closed mindedness. To assume that everyone is the same is to pass judgment not only on good people, but to close yourself off from any options, from any chance at happiness. And it's the last step to adopting a "sensible" attitude about love.

People who are sensible about love are incapable of it.

I had to learn this the hard way. As will anyone else who goes through it. I can explain it, try and help people see what I do now. Going through life with that attitude is a bleak, cold existance. And yet at the same time always wondering, desiring, aching to be proven wrong. I have the utmost empathy for those who do go through it, but in the end everyone has to get through it themselves. If I had continued thinking the way I do I never would have discovered my Twin, my Soulmate. I never would have allowed us to fall in love, and grow with one another. The most wonderful of all things in life, I believe, is the discovery of another human being with whom one's relationship has a glowing depth, beauty, and joy as the years increase. This inner progressiveness of love between two human beings is marvelous thing, and it cannot be found by looking for it or by passionately wishing for it. It is a sort of divine accident.

All our lives we search for someone to love. Someone who makes us complete. We choose partners and change partners. We dance to a song of heartbreak and hope, all the while wondering if somewhere, somehow, there's someone perfect who might be searching for us. And then it hits you like a lightening bolt. Nobody is perfect until you fall in love with them. We come to love, not by finding a perfect person, but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.

Sadly most will never realize this. There are too many mediocre things in life that we have to deal with. Love shouldn't be one of them.

Having gone off on that tangent however, I can get back to your questions. The title of this particular thread is "what is love". It is in that context that I answered the post. You ask me "is it possible to fall in love without both physical and spiritual attraction?"? I can't answer that. At least not with any kind of logical sense. People's reality is defined by their perception, and those perceptions include many varying definitions of love. I can say that based on my own beliefs, that if it is TRUE love someone seeks, then it is not possible without physical, spiritual, mental and even emotional attraction. If you can't love everything about someone, if you can put into words why you love a person, then you will never love that person enough.

But keep in mind that is my own personal view and opinion on it and I'm sure will be subject to debate and ridicule. In that I expect it, but am not influenced by it. I am confident and comfortable in my own beliefs to state them with the conviction that in MY mind, they are absolutely correct.

I will admit that I have fallen in love twice since I allowed myself to be open to it. Once was with my Mahasani, the second was with the person she became when she was already mine.

Interests:Lots and lots...here are some of my favs.....<br>Singing (music in general) and dance, gardening, travel,<br>reading, learning and exploring the known and unknown

Posted 08 October 2004 - 05:55 PM

AHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Ren, now you have touched upon the subject more in
the way it seemed this post was intended. Yes, I believe that if you are
"looking" for love, that probably isn't the correct attitude. No, TRUE love
does just happen for that can only happen when one is united with their
soul mate. A soul mate does indeed incorporate all aspects of a relationship,
friendship, love, attraction,etc. Also, if you read my earlier post, you will see
that I simply gave my humble opinion on the subject of love. I believe I
mentioned something about love being something perhaps that can't or
shouldn't be fully explained. I also believe that TRUE love is far beyond
words, but the beauty of an emotion that can never ever be fully explained,
certainly has inspired some of the most beautiful aspects of life and always
will.
You stressed the first comments I made in my post, none of which I may
add do I believe in or subcribe to in the least myself. I simply added the
"ignorant" Shakesperian quote (LOL do you know for a fact that Shakespeare
was gay, if so how? Also, love is a universal subject that we all can relate to
no matter who we are, that in itself I find to be a far more offensive comment
than Shakespeare's quote!) You've been hoisted by your own petard my
friend for I answered your posts in the way I have, because I found your
comment about woman being worse than men quite offensive. I do believe
that everyone should aways have to right to speak their mind and never be
told to REFRAIN from a comment. BTW, in the future if you are trying to
put someone down or even just make a point, correct spelling will give you
more credibility!

Interests:Lots and lots...here are some of my favs.....<br>Singing (music in general) and dance, gardening, travel,<br>reading, learning and exploring the known and unknown

Posted 08 October 2004 - 06:35 PM

Ren,
I realize that perhaps I was a bit harsh in my last post. I felt I had to
make a point after seeing your comment about women. Stereotyping
of any kind is cruel, hurtful and dangerous. Always speak your mind,
but still think carefully before you speak! I have been lucky, I have had
good experiences with men in my life. I've seen friends of mine male
and female get burned in relationships. In my experience I have found
that gender plays no role whatsoever in a person being a jerk. There are
some mean spirited people in the world, lets face it, both male and female.
Sometimes people are hurt by bad people, and sometimes people are hurt
by their own bad choices. My point was simply that shallow, blanket
statements don't help matters any. Too bad you came across negative
women, please don't think women are "worse than men". I have some of
the SWEETEST, KINDEST female friends in the world. I have also been
blessed with the most CARING, KIND-HEARTED male friends in the world!
There is good and bad in BOTH genders, neither being WORSE than the
other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow! I hope that I don't have to start getting paranoid if I made a spelling (usually typo) error. I didn't think a typo had the overpowering ability to lesson one's credibility.
IMO, I found that to be a personal shot. Coming from a teacher, I find Ren's overall grammar, spelling and vocabulary to be quite impeccable, and like anyone else around here, he's quite entitled to make a typo or two. Isn't he?
Let's not let our personal feelings on a subject allow us to be too harsh. I commend you on pointing out your harsh tone and apologizing. That was good of you. I'm sure we've all made spelling errors when posting. I sure have.

I would also like to make a point. Love may be a universal subject (concept) , but not everyone can relate to love. Sorry to say, but I know individuals who wouldn't know love if it bit them in the posterior. You have to experience something, or at least experience it vicariously through others in order to relate. It would be nice if everyone could, but that's a blanket statement in itself. Some never will.

Also, he never did say that you should refrain from utilizing a blanket quote. He said one could ask that, but one has no right to do so.
He said clearly that he "could not do or say any of the above" when addressing aforesaid statements.

Another point of order- Ren said that he has been guilty of stereotypes in the past, but no longer. I also think that he made quite the lucent point that he has found exceptions. If you read anything toward the end of that last reply, he has obviously opened his heart to someone. One simply cannot stereotype of they are finding exceptions to their own experiences.
As for experience, I also do not find that he was making a blanket statement or stereotype. He said that 'in his experience' he has found women to be more prone to certain traits. You chose to focus on the sentence fragment that said 'men are far worse than women' but seemed to have glazed over the context in which that those words were used. It was prefaced, in the same sentence, that it was his experience. None of us can argue his experience. Had he claimed erroneously that it is true for all of us, then one would have reason to for rebuttal.
In MY experience, women can be more hurtful than men. So, I do agree with him on his statement, due to my own experiences. Perhaps that is not your experience, but it cannot be argued, since this is a fact of my own life. It may not even hold true for the majority, but it's still pertinant to my own life. And I'm a woman!