RoyalDude wrote:Do any of you realize that Shane 'bible belt' Doan will turn 36 on October 10th? Must be careful here, could be another version of past their prime, geriatrics Messier, Sundin playing in Vancouver.

Just saying.

Best birthday eva! (I know it seems like I pick the complete opposite to you BD butt I'm changing my name to Moonrise Dude after the film I saw last night....; )

There is no such thing as climate change...there is no such thing as climate change...there is such thing as climate change...

Hockey Widow wrote:As I said in an earlier post I would be all over him if he were that elusive last piece. I just don't see him that way. I see him as a missing piece but not that one piece that puts us over the top. I'd want MG to do more than just add Doan.

But even at 35 going on 36 I'd love to have him as a Canuck if the term and cap were right. I have no idea what "right" is in this case.

Agreed, just curious what you think the "last piece" is.

I think Doan *could* put us over the top. But Kesler would have to rediscover his 'A' game, and/or we'd need to acquire a legit 2nd/3rd line centre to absorb a couple of minutes from him.

Hockey Widow wrote:As I said in an earlier post I would be all over him if he were that elusive last piece. I just don't see him that way. I see him as a missing piece but not that one piece that puts us over the top. I'd want MG to do more than just add Doan.

But even at 35 going on 36 I'd love to have him as a Canuck if the term and cap were right. I have no idea what "right" is in this case.

Agreed, just curious what you think the "last piece" is.

I think Doan *could* put us over the top. But Kesler would have to rediscover his 'A' game, and/or we'd need to acquire a legit 2nd/3rd line centre to absorb a couple of minutes from him.

I think in terms of a tandem of missing pieces, or maybe a trifecta. A stud on D, another top 6 centre, a true power forward. If MG could get us all three I'd be ecstatic, but I'd settle for 2 out of three.

Hockey Widow wrote:I think in terms of a tandem of missing pieces, or maybe a trifecta. A stud on D, another top 6 centre, a true power forward. If MG could get us all three I'd be ecstatic, but I'd settle for 2 out of three.

Of those three my gut says we could get by without the stud on D. Since the lockout there have already been a handful of teams to win the Cup with a mediocre-but-deep D corps. Adding another legit top-4, or getting more out of Ballard would probably suffice.

On the one hand, I think that adding Doan, plus moving Lou for a package along the lines of Bozak and Gunnarsson would do the trick. On the other, I wonder if that would just be adding a bunch of mediocre pieces when MG should be aiming for a Nash+Weber type home run.

The unique/exciting/frustrating thing about this off-season is that there are potentially some huge pieces out there that we have needed for a long time. To varying degrees Doan, Nash and Weber are more available than they've ever been. And we have the luxury of a legitimate #1 goalie as a trading chip for them, or any other holes that need to be filled.

The table is set for MG to finally push the Canucks over the top for this season, and possibly many more to come. The anticipation is killing me.

RoyalDude wrote:Do any of you realize that Shane Doan will turn 36 on October 10th? Must be careful here, could be another version Messier, Sundin playing in Vancouver.

Just saying.

For sure his age is a concern. I think he knows that and I think he has too much class to demand a 4 year deal he knows he may not earn. I also don't think he will want to saddle a team with a cap hit should he retire. Now I have nothing to base this on other than how he has conducted himself throughout his career and the tidbits you get from reading about him. He could prove me wrong and go for a big 4 year deal heavily front loaded and not be concerned at all down the road what this does to a team should he not be able to compete or should he retire.

I still think if he has to move from the desert he will take a 2-3 year deal, probably 3, and chose a city based upon its status as a contender but also one where he can feel comfortable moving his family. Money will be a secondary concern to him and I think he gets pretty well the same term from most teams seriously interested.

He wants to win and he wants to stay in the West.

But a four year deal would be hard for me to swallow. I'd prefer a two year and would be Ok if we had to bite for three, depending upon the cap. He is in great shape and I can see him playing at 39 but it is hard to say how effective he will be. As a veteran role player he would still be very useful but the problem is at what cost dollar wise.

As I said in an earlier post I would be all over him if he were that elusive last piece. I just don't see him that way. I see him as a missing piece but not that one piece that puts us over the top. I'd want MG to do more than just add Doan.

But even at 35 going on 36 I'd love to have him as a Canuck if the term and cap were right. I have no idea what "right" is in this case.

Agreed, I don't see Gillis giving Doan a 4 year deal. 2 for sure, maybe 3 at most, but 4 is a no-go.

We'll see what happens, going to be difficult to land a guy like Doan given all the interest in him. I'm actually loving the fact that Detroit, Pittsburgh and the Rangers are striking out on free agents, looks good on their fans who seem to think they are entitled to every good player in the league.

I tend to agree with HW. The Canucks are three to four pieces from being the front runner. And of those pieces, Doan-types might be 3rd or 4th on my priority list.

Then again, if the players (i.e. Sedin, Sedin, Kesler) play like it's 2011 all over again they may only require Doan.

For some reason, I think I would prefer Semin to Doan, IF, Vancouver were to also acquire a proven someone with Doan's dimensions for the 3rd line. Not because I think Semin is a better player than Doan, but rather becuase he addresses the team's needs more directly: an offensive winger who can create his own chances.

Doan on the other hand is a bruising-ish guy, who can hack and stab 20 goals and will throw some bodychecks. In my view, Higgins gives you 80% of what you get out of Doan, at half the price and 7 years younger. And, I think you could find someone in the Doan mould for less than 4 to 5 to 6 million for 3 to 4 years.

What Semin brings (and yes, I realize he's not coming to Vancouver) is a lot harder to find.

If we have to bring in Doan, becuase there are no other options, that's fine and he will help. But there are immediate needs are ahead of an aging 2nd line winger, with a decent (but losing) pedigree.

I wouldn't take Semin ahead of Doan. Just me but I don't see Semin being a fit. On paper yes he has what the canucks are looking for but I foresee some issues with AV concerning effort etc right from the get go.

That said I think the point you make is important. I would extend it a bit and say perhaps Upshall coming back in a Luongo deal also provides a good chunk of what Doan could at a lower cost (but has other risks such as an inability to stay healthy).

I can't help that part of what holds up a Luongo deal is that Gillis wants the UFA market and other options to improve the club exhausted first. Does he try to make the Luongo deal more of a help us now and somewhat in the future or help a bit now and more in the future.

Mondi wrote:Doan on the other hand is a bruising-ish guy, who can hack and stab 20 goals and will throw some bodychecks. In my view, Higgins gives you 80% of what you get out of Doan, at half the price and 7 years younger. And, I think you could find someone in the Doan mould for less than 4 to 5 to 6 million for 3 to 4 years.

I don't know about that. Maybe Higgins has the same disposition on the ice as Doan but being a mean sonofabitch means a lot more when it's coming from a 230 pounder than it does from a guy that is just "big enough."

It's like saying Kevin Bieksa gives you 80% of what Shea Weber does - it's accurate in a way but eventually you are going to have to upgrade from a Bieksa to a Weber to take that next step.

Doan may not be the certified "last piece" this team needs but he's probably the best piece left out there for a team that needs to be more physically dominant - a guy who can go out and impose his will against pretty much anyone in big minutes, rather than a guy who can play big minutes and outmuscle some players (like Higgins) or a guy who can outmuscle most players but can't play big minutes (Bitz, or Kassian in the short term).

Last edited by dbr on Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

tantalum wrote:Upshall coming back in a Luongo deal also provides a good chunk of what Doan could at a lower cost (but has other risks such as an inability to stay healthy).

I'm a big Upshall fan. He's not anywhere near as big as Doan, but at this point in their respective careers they bring about the same level of physicality. Upshall is probably a 20 goal second-liner on your Vancouver Canucks IF he could stay healthy. Alotta folks over at HF say he's the salary that would have to come back in a Luongo deal for a prospect like Bjugstad. I'd be tempted, although I hate NMCs.

I'd rather sign Doan and deal Lou + Schroeder for Bjugstad, but pretty sure Doan stays in the desert with his 200 horses.

I always liked Scotty Upshall, great player when he played with Kamloops. High energy and commited to a physical style. I don't think he played during Doans time their but back in the day Kamloops had some great quality and skill. Players with strong physical play.

Frankly I'm wondering if Vcr depends too much on skill and backs off physical play ( not necessarily fighting ) just hard nose, high energy. They suffer in the play -offs when physical play becomes the norm and Vcr can't match ???? Doan, Upshall would bring a different diamension and who knows chnage the likes of Kassian and Booth at the same time.

And Doan has announced he will wait one more week before deciding. If you read the article I posted yesterday you will see that the group trying to get the required number of names on the petition failed to do so by last Monday. They claim they have until this coming Monday and will file a court challenge if refused. So I think Doan is going to wait to see what happens by then. Looks like things will still be on hold until next week for a lot of dominos. Maybe I'll get some scoop from the golf tournament this weekend!

Hockey Widow wrote:And Doan has announced he will wait one more week before deciding. If you read the article I posted yesterday you will see that the group trying to get the required number of names on the petition failed to do so by last Monday. They claim they have until this coming Monday and will file a court challenge if refused. So I think Doan is going to wait to see what happens by then. Looks like things will still be on hold until next week for a lot of dominos. Maybe I'll get some scoop from the golf tournament this weekend!

i heard this morning that Jameson (SP) the potential owner hasnt been able to find enough money yet anyways.

The way I look at it is IF our "window" is starting to close then thats all the more reason to go hard after Doan. If his agent came to me and said "he has an offer of 4 years 20 mill will you match it ?" I would match. At this point our best players have peaked and it hasnt been enough to win a cup. If we sign Doan for 4 years by the last year or 2 we should have some young players on entry level deals in our top 6 and having Doan in the bottom 6 at 5 mill will be easier to digest.

At some point Gillis needs to push his chips all in and say this is it. He either needs to get the big rental player at the deadline (and give up future picks and current prospects) or get a UFA and give an extra year to a guy who may not be worth it.

This core isint going to win a cup. Sure they could get hot and blah blah blah but they are missing something they are missing that edge. Kassian might bring some of that in 2-3 years but by then everyone else is going to be that much older.

The package that Doan brings to the table I think is exactly what this team needs. He just has that western Canadian farm boy toughness that we dont have (and Gillis doesnt like to draft).

black ace wrote:The package that Doan brings to the table I think is exactly what this team needs. He just has that western Canadian farm boy toughness that we dont have (and Gillis doesnt like to draft).

Agreed, plus one of the teams archilles heal has always been injuries, so no thanks to Upshall!

Doan is exactly what this teams needs and he doesn't cost us any precious assets that MG doesn't like to give up.

3-4 years is what MG has to risk imo, and the reward is priceless if Doan goes beast mode in the playoffs and through the grueling reason, plus he can help throw off the opposition if he plays with the Sedins or Kesler, so as they don't get beat down regularly, ultimately succoring them to stay relatively healthy for the post season.