So honestly, the community can't have it both ways, you can't clamor to keep things the same, and you can't clamor to make it different.

but they were right though weren't they?..the Boomerang was absolute joke and the DS3 was so rushed because of the Bommerang press that the R2 and L2 Triggers were at an off angle that most games don't use them now and use L1 and R1 instead,and the least said about the SixAxis the better

I'd rather have the Dual Shock 2 than DS3 or Boomerang...wired if need be

I stand by my statement. That article talks about the overall success of this generation of consoles, but the reality is the Sony hemorrhaged money just to maintain their market share, as opposed to MS which just grew and grew.

I like Sony's games, but there's a lot of boneheaded moves they made with this last generation that caused them to lose a lot of money and mind share. Only the strong brand, and very strong first party games helped to keep them going.

As for backwards compatibility, due to the PS3's architecture, I just don't see integral backwards compatibility being in. In all the rumors that PS4 is going back to a more off the shelf PC-like architecture and API based system closer to PCs, this is in response to all the developers abandoning them early due to difficulties developing for the system, and Sony's complete lack of support to any developers.

And for the controller, one of the reasons why they had issues with the DS3 was all the backlash about the boomerang controller convinced the dumb execs to change as little as possible. This was probably why what should have been a concave "trigger" for L2 and R2 were shaped like the DS2's convex L2 and R2 buttons. Nor did the DS3 make use of all the latest ergonomic research done since the DS2.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited about this announcement. Here's my predictions for things that will be revealed at the press conference:

- Near 100% backwards compatibility with PS1, PS2 and PS3, but not native. To access this compatibility you must use the streaming service that will be announced at the same time. Instead of having the PS4 handle the compatibility, Sony's streaming servers deal with it for you. You will have access to all your PS Plus and PS Store titles this way. PS Plus may or may not be required to use this service in the first place. - Tight integration with Vita as a controller, but also in other ways that will remind people of the Wii U.

I really pray that this is true but I think you're overly optimistic. Really, the PS 2 was the only console that was backwards compatible wasn't it? I suppose the wii was too. I would pass on backwards compatibility if it meant a super cheap price. PS3 compatibility would be nice but at this point I could give a damn about PS1 or PS2 games.

Why do we even need new consoles at this point? Is there a reason for this arms race other than for them to say we have a new one? Doesn't seem like either company really needs to do this yet. Just seems silly.

I mean.. games can't possible look any better. So what would be clincher?

That's a bit close-minded, don't you think? I mean, even game reviewers starting pointing out about two years ago that console games were beginning to get a bit long in the tooth compared to PC games. New console games are likely going to look somewhat better than the PC games of today. Most current-gen console games are running at a resolution that is somewhere between 720p and 480p, upscaled to 720p. Just getting that to native 1080p will do wonders to the quality of the graphics. Then there's the extremely limited RAM on current-gen consoles, which results in long loading times, limited content on levels and on the screen (developers "cheat" by making you believe there's more going on than there actually is, and this takes a lot of development time and some genius minds), and blurry textures. Just upping the RAM will give developers an enormous increase in freedom to build complexity and detail. There's more horsepower too. Maybe we can start to get real geometry in levels instead of the massive use of shaders to imitate detail today. Better lighting with better shadows will be very noticeable. Sound will become audibly better too, because of a combination of more RAM and more processing power. Then there's the framerate, which is becoming more and more sluggish as this generation develops.

Add in the other things we're likely to see with the next generation: New controllers, multitasking, more focus on digital distribution and alternate business models, and so on. There's more than enough reasons to upgrade. I can't even fathom how someone could think we reached the zenith of consoles 6 years ago.

There's also a slew of graphics technologies, a number of them already in PC graphics cards for a while now, that are woefully underutilized due to almost all developers either making games for the console spec, or making games for PCs many years old.

Having this technology as standard in consoles is going really make developers use them. It's like parallel computing (multi-core processors), the PC developers never really used it until the current generation of consoles made it standard. In fact, I think this generation of consoles was marked by all developers learning to make use of parallel computing.

As TiLT mentions, there things like RAM as well, the current consoles have a whopping 512mb of ram. My PC graphics card has double that, and most PCs come with 2GB today and look at the games that run on that. Now the word is that these new consoles have 8GB of RAM.

With 8GB standard, you're going to see open world games with a lot more persistent elements, or just more detailed gameplay systems and mechanics that don't all reset after you've traveled a block away. FPS games use a lot of memory for the high detailed graphics, sadly their AI has never improved, well now they have the space to improve it.

And that's just the benefits in general, who knows what specific things Sony and Microsoft will be doing, these same new standards also help the PC scene by making a lot of developers experienced with the new tech.

Well, I hear you all. I guess the next step for these consoles to go to is complete photorealism. Also, faster frame rates and 3D gaming.

I didnt know PC gaming had surpassed the consoles in the graphics department. I saw 'Guild Wars 2' running at full-throttle months ago on a new PC and I thought it looked fantastic. Guess that's what's missing on the current console generation.

I have no trouble taking a step back and realizing why Far Cry 3 will look like garbage within a few years. It's not like I'm blind to it now. I'd think someone would have to have a severe lack of imagination not to realize that the current generation of games are far, far from photorealistic. The next generation won't be photorealistic either, nor will the one after be. Even CGI in movies isn't photorealistic yet, despite trying really really hard and spending days (seriously) to render a single frame of video.

Its not just about spiffy new graphics, its the world you can create with a new engine. The giant teaming city of Rome in Assassins Creed simply could not have been done on a PS2. Well I guess it could have but there would be about a dozen people walking around in it and would have looked like crap. The world they could make helped make that game what it was.

Saying after almost 8 years that we are still fine with the same consoles is so narrow minded.

I stand by my statement. That article talks about the overall success of this generation of consoles, but the reality is the Sony hemorrhaged money just to maintain their market share, as opposed to MS which just grew and grew.

Well, I hear you all. I guess the next step for these consoles to go to is complete photorealism. Also, faster frame rates and 3D gaming.

I didnt know PC gaming had surpassed the consoles in the graphics department. I saw 'Guild Wars 2' running at full-throttle months ago on a new PC and I thought it looked fantastic. Guess that's what's missing on the current console generation.

Physics Physx is the next big thing imo. Look at Borderlands 2 with a top notch Nvidia card and then without. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZFRLpz5mYk. That is something that can't be done on this gen's consoles.

I stand by my statement. That article talks about the overall success of this generation of consoles, but the reality is the Sony hemorrhaged money just to maintain their market share, as opposed to MS which just grew and grew.

Does MS actually break out financials for the Xbox, or are they taking numbers from the entire Entertainment & Devices Division? It was my understanding that the profits of the division are driven by the Xbox.

Well, I hear you all. I guess the next step for these consoles to go to is complete photorealism. Also, faster frame rates and 3D gaming.

I didnt know PC gaming had surpassed the consoles in the graphics department. I saw 'Guild Wars 2' running at full-throttle months ago on a new PC and I thought it looked fantastic. Guess that's what's missing on the current console generation.

Physics Physx is the next big thing imo. Look at Borderlands 2 with a top notch Nvidia card and then without. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZFRLpz5mYk. That is something that can't be done on this gen's consoles.

I know... and that's the reason I own games like Arkham Asylum on both a console and the PC. I generally play them on a console nowadays but still sometimes can't resist also cranking it up on a high-end PC (with a 360 controller) and loving the fun stuff that PhysX brings to the table.

How would that work? You put your bluray in the drive, it reads it and allows you to stream the game over the net? If it works then it's fine with me especially if it keeps the cost down. Not a big fan of the touch pad. The one on the back of the PS Vita is pretty useless.

How would that work? You put your bluray in the drive, it reads it and allows you to stream the game over the net? If it works then it's fine with me especially if it keeps the cost down. Not a big fan of the touch pad. The one on the back of the PS Vita is pretty useless.

I can't imagine it being related to the Blu-ray at all, only to PSN. PS1, PS2 and PS3 games you have in your PSN account would be streamable. If you have a Blu-ray only, you can't stream it.

This is merely speculation on my part, but I find it very likely. It also matches how Sony has done things earlier, such as in the transition between PSP and PSP GO. I can't imagine what else they would use the streaming technology for (there's already support for movies, after all) if it wasn't for old games. Maybe as a way for people to play full PS4-games without having to download them first, or even while you download them. Still, the loss of quality and responsiveness for PS4 games would be worse than on older titles, so I can't see them pushing that angle too hard.

Bah, I still think the BC won't be streaming, they'll be trying something else.

But yeah, especially this console cycle, coming off a really, really strange and interesting generation with the PS3 and 360, a lot of hard lessons learned on both sides, but a whole lot of cool new stuff too.

8GB of memory standard is a helluva lot, and I suspect Sony might actually bump up to 8GB to maintain parity. They really lost out last generation due to the memory issues between 360's architecture and the PS3's, their engineers won't want to make the same mistake with cross platform games.

8GB of memory standard is a helluva lot, and I suspect Sony might actually bump up to 8GB to maintain parity. They really lost out last generation due to the memory issues between 360's architecture and the PS3's, their engineers won't want to make the same mistake with cross platform games.

Developers who are working with the PS4 have supposedly said that Sony has specifically told their developers that they are trying to get 8 GB into the unit to match the new Xbox. It's worth mentioning that the type of RAM Sony is using is faster than the one Microsoft went for, at least if the rumors are to be believed (which I think they are).

Oh, I'm sure it's GDDR5 as they said, the same kind of fast RAM they use in video cards these days. However, 4GB is still just half that of 8GB, and Sony by now has fielded a lot of complaints from developers trying to get parity between cross-platform developers, such as Skyrim.

They absolutely have to get 8GB this year just to make that nothing sets them back. This is probably doable since it seems all console parts are just off the shelf designs with just custom interfaces between them. Heck, the PS4 could just be called the AMD console gaming system. As AMD seems to have cornered the market on console parts design.

Faster RAM is nice, but the reality is, the PS3 also had faster RAM, but less of it was available for all kinds of tasks (despite having the same amount). This made this even more difficult for developers in the long run and contributed to all sorts of development issues along with the cell architecture, and plenty of developers skipping the PS3 early and mid generation.

I don't think the damage was repaired until the last 2 years where Sony must have put out APIs that helped make the transition a bit easier.

Oh, and that new controller sounds good, they definitely need more ergonomic grips. There's been 15+ years of ergonomic research in the years since the first dual shocks came out. It's time.

Also not sure what a touch pad is going to do for the controller without it being a screen. The rear touchpad on the Vita really wasn't that useful, and on consoles you already have ways of controlling cursors and the like. Likewise, any touchpad swipes and gestures they might use can easily be covered by buttons.

Also not sure what a touch pad is going to do for the controller without it being a screen. The rear touchpad on the Vita really wasn't that useful, and on consoles you already have ways of controlling cursors and the like. Likewise, any touchpad swipes and gestures they might use can easily be covered by buttons.

I agree. There is one situation I can think of where a touch pad could be useful though: Grenade throwing. Just drag your finger to the spot where you want the grenade to go, and release. The Vita has shown that this is a very good system, though that one tends to use the front screen for it. I expect Sony to have a better concept than this though, so it'll be exciting to hear more about it.

A trusted source has told IGN that this controller is real. However, our source notes that it's an early prototype. The controller, in other words, is likely to change between now and when the console launches.

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Because I can,also because I don't care what you want.XBL: OriginalCeeKayWii U: CeeKay

Yeah, that's an early prototype controller for sure. However, it is nice to see there is less of a gap for the dpad, and a better surface for the thumb sticks. The purely convex shape of the old dual shock design was crap, nice to see something that will catch the thumb better. Should also mean you need less pressure on the thumbstick to keep it in place, thus helping prevent accidental L3/R3 presses by accident.

And I bet you the light up top, if it stays in the final design, also interfaces with whatever new camera they have as a secondary positional controller like the move.

Sadly, no pic of the triggers, which are hopefully actual triggers this time.

For the love of god change the placement of the analog sticks...I still can't stand playing FPS games on the Playstation because of that.

It's the other way around for me. I can't fathom why people feel the 360-controller has a better layout. The asymmetric placement of the joysticks makes absolutely no sense. Going from a 360-controller to a PS3-controller is like finally managing to reach that itch that has been bothering you for hours.

For the love of god change the placement of the analog sticks...I still can't stand playing FPS games on the Playstation because of that.

It's the other way around for me. I can't fathom why people feel the 360-controller has a better layout. The asymmetric placement of the joysticks makes absolutely no sense. Going from a 360-controller to a PS3-controller is like finally managing to reach that itch that has been bothering you for hours.

I'm drunk as usual, but I still agree! Btw, I might or might no be in the toilet as we speak.

For the love of god change the placement of the analog sticks...I still can't stand playing FPS games on the Playstation because of that.

It's the other way around for me. I can't fathom why people feel the 360-controller has a better layout. The asymmetric placement of the joysticks makes absolutely no sense. Going from a 360-controller to a PS3-controller is like finally managing to reach that itch that has been bothering you for hours.

I think your thumbs naturally want to fall on the higher area of each controller. On 360 games where you're using the left analog stick and right buttons, it makes perfect sense. On 360 games like FPSs where you're using both analog sticks, it does seem a bit weird. On the PS3, though, the only time you'll ever use the natural placement for both thumbs is if you're playing Megaman.

Yeah i prefer my thumbsticks offset,not sure why...perhaps because i have big hands,and therefore big Thumbs,and they do clash(touch) actually when i need to put the thumbsticks towards each other,but that is still not very often....it's more the triggers i despise

I guess the 360 controller(Offset Thumbsticks) also feels more comfortable because i have been using the 360 controller for the last 6 years,the Xbox1 controller(Large and Small) for 3 years before that,the Gamecube controller at the same time and even the N64 controller before that,only the left stick didn't exist and actually the Dpad was in it's place but they were still offset(see pic),although i think i just used the Dpad and buttons mainly then...in fact,its only the Dual Shock that's actually even(parallel,whatever)

I never had a Dreamcast,with that being the last SEGA console i looked up what it looked like,that had just one thumbstick over the Dpad

I definitely prefer the 360 stick layout. More breathing room is one reason. Moving the sticks toward each other on the PS3 does feel very cramped (my thumbs don't hit, though...mo, are you Andre the Giant or something?).

I also find that the 360 right stick has a better placement for when you do have to use the buttons. And it naturally lines up in your hand with the trigger. And, frankly, using the R1 button on the PS3 for FPS games is counter-intuitive. I'm sure if you've been doing it that way all along, it wouldn't seem as weird, but it's an outdated choice.

I definitely prefer the 360 stick layout. More breathing room is one reason. Moving the sticks toward each other on the PS3 does feel very cramped (my thumbs don't hit, though...mo, are you Andre the Giant or something?).

I also find that the 360 right stick has a better placement for when you do have to use the buttons. And it naturally lines up in your hand with the trigger. And, frankly, using the R1 button on the PS3 for FPS games is counter-intuitive. I'm sure if you've been doing it that way all along, it wouldn't seem as weird, but it's an outdated choice.

Being someone who prefers the PS3 over the 360 in almost all things, I still agree with the 360 controller being superior, it just feels better in my hands. It's not enough to make me choose multiplatform games for the 360 based on that alone, but the 360 controller is better IMHO.

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" And they are a strong and frightening force, impervious to, and immunized against, the feeble lance of mere reason." Isaac Asimov

It looks OK, nothing great. I would actually prefer a bit more bulk to it. As one of about three people who own one I have to say the WiiU controller is actually my favorite in a long time. I have large hands and both the 360 and PS3 controllers cause my hands to cramp up after about 30 minutes.

It would be great if Sony could really blow us away with a well designed console that's priced reasonably. I'd love to be able to throw my money at them and their free PSN (if the core service still remains free this gen). It really irks me to have to pay to access streaming apps on my 360 like Netflix and Amazon Prime, that I'm already paying for. Not to mention having to pay to play with friends, and xbox live doesn't allow for a house account either, each individual family member has to pay for a Gold membership.

The right way to do it this gen would be to offer free access to all of the core features of their gaming and entertainment network/community (xbox live and PSN), and then have it loaded with apps and other services that can be purchased.