by the time you have purchased waste oil, then play and put the stuff in to make it bio what price does it cost you per ltr, bear in mind you have to add your elec bill and fuel bill or carriage into the cost

way im working is i use around 20 quid a week on a normal week, if im going off road to go fishing i can easy use an extra 2 gallons per session fishing, i do the occasional 120 mile each way trip, summer is coming so fuel will most likely go up a bit, plus as i said i can see vat going up to 17.5% again soon, waste oil is now carrying a price tg because people will pay for it, with the fluffing and farting around with it i cant be bothered with filtering, adding chems and possibly getting it wrong, plus the waiting time and getting rid of the crud thats part of the product with waste oil
nice price on svo, especially on the min order

off course theres a market for it ?
the oil is free but filters,pumpscontainers etc cost money + time it takes
the guy makes a few quid (goos luck to him)
how much ddoes the goverment put on fuel again ££££££££££££

dino 101.9p ltr by me
i use 100ltrs a week and have done for the last 9yrs ??
YOU DO THE MATHS !!
my dad uses 200lts a month 5 yrs
and i have a few other people i get it for so were saving ££££££££££

im based in st-helens if any body wants oil i can get it for you at cost

I've got a tandam garage, so plenty of room to set up some filtration tanks, and some kit to do the conversion.

One of my shift managers' girlfriend runs the kitchen for a pub, so getting hold of cheap WVO isn't a problem.

So we're thinking of splitting the costs with another lad at work; we split the cost of the kit threeways, then I provide the electricity/heat, the manager provides the WVO, the other lad provides the chemicals and takes the waste glycerin for his allotment, and I then hide most of the biodiesel from the other two.....

just dinnae buy waste from the pubs and restaurants, thats what im saying it is wqaste ans should always be free.

the more of a market we create , we ALL loose out.

Gray the co op idea is a sound one, helps spread the good word.

Be carefull of the glycerol on the allotment. de meth it first.

Im hoping to use glycerol to fertilise an entire field of oilseed rape. keeps the cost of growing it to a minimum. I also have a pipe dream to make bio gas from it first though. maybe sometime in the next twenty years though, like all my ideas very few make it off the drawing board quickly

TBH Whilst we think it's a good idea, we're not entirely sure as to the legalities of a WVO-biodiesel co-op.... Something to do with the kit being on my property therefore that kit can only produce 2500 litres/year else I'm either consuming more than my allowance and hence need to pay tax, or technically I'm selling fuel and need to have a licence.
We should be ok if we keep production to below 2500 litres. I suppose it all depends on how the pub has to record the fact that their new WVO disposer (my shift manager) is not registered....

Up until a few years ago a lot of chip shops, pubs, restaurants etc had to pay to have their waste oils & fats removed, most of which was converted and used commercially, especially glycerine for medicines.

Unfortunately there is now such a demand for WVO that it makes economic sense for the original users of the oil (chippies, restaurants etc) to dispose of their waste for a profit, rather than pay to have it removed.

And I've included the cost of removing the methanol from the glycerol in my part of the co-op bargain.

sorry if i am wrong bud, way i have been understanding it people are using wvo to make bio not to use it straight as fuel
every thing i have read sugests that you need to do a lot more than settle it for it to be used without damage to your engine or fuel system.more especially if animal fats are in it from cooking
brill that it can be used as a fuel, like most that use veg im not into enviromental issues, more costs

you say waste is free for the taking, that depends on were you can get it from, theres a big market for waste oils now, i know of all the places i have asked around here theres not one thats not got someone paying to take it from them

bio at 80p ltr, no one close around here sells it far as i know, and the only one i saw in the north east was selling at 99.9 a ltr, i can get dino at same price just up the road

this 2500 ltr per premises limit is really taking the rip, it should be per person who has paid road tax or has a tax exempt vehicle
think about it, you, your partner, and say three kids, you all live together, all drive diesels, thats 500 ltrs per person only, or like some on here now, equipement sharing, but possibly dont have the space to setup at thier home, i know i really dont have the space, if i did i can imagine if the council found out they may actually object
still we got the 2500 rule in place mainly because customs and excise could not police it fully, so i suppose we should be greatfull for small mercy`s

were do you stand if you and a few mates share a mobile bit of kit, do they say that only one can own it and the limit still stands at 2500 free per setup ?

bit of a side line here, many years ago when i was serving my time, we rebuilt some old car with a rubber contraption on the roof. apparently it was an old idea developed when there was a fuel crisis, basically you filled the unit with chicken ****, added water and the car, a petrol engine, ran off the fumes produced, shame you cant run off dog crap, i have three labradors and they produce enough to keep a fleet of 4x4`s running

When the price of diesel rocketed, more people started using SVO as fuel, either neat or converting it to biodiesel, so the price increased to match demand.
The difference in price between SVO in supermarkets and diesel around my way is pennies - not worth using neat in the winter, and not cost effective to convert to biodiesel.

Though every so often, a friend of mine gets 20% discount vouchers from one of the supermarkets (Sainsbury I think), so he buys 100 litres of SVO at £1/litre, (effective cost £80), adds the points to his reward card (£100's worth!), and then fills up using the "spend £50, get 5p/litre off the price of fuel" offer to fill his tank, whilst storing the oil until he can use it mixed with diesel from spring to autumn. Makes three savings in one go.
He's managed to do that thrice a year, so his diesel costs reduce significantly during the summer, but he always prays the price of SVO doesn't fall below 76p/litre....
All the savings are put towards the cost of a heat conversion kit to enable him to permanently run neat SVO.

trouble is you then have to cost in the twin tank gear, aint cheap from what i have seen, having seen wvo at 45p per ltr it would take some time to break even, fatty acids, i was reaading that those going through your engine no matter how hot still cause damage, old reading so perhaps its been superceeded i dont know

i can get shell dino here for 99.9 , asda still charging 1.18 per ltr, if using veg made my fuel figures better then maybe it would be worth it, but it dont, lidl is similar in price as well, a local small wholesaler told me he could get me it in 5 gallon drums nice n cheap, worked out at £1.22 ltr

the wvo i get is excellent only used for 6-8 hrs and then changed !
very clean but its still filtered dewater etc and for 45p
ive used this oil for years off the same guy single tank with a 12v fuel heater inline
not one off them crappy heater plug thing that can cook the oil and the heater plugs can flake coursing serious damage to the pump !!! (so im told)bewarned ...
my heater is inline 12v just before the filter + pump heats the oil to 80oc within minutes (im told)but im adding a fuel temp gauge so i can tell what temp im running at when starting from cold and temp allday ?
all the companys supply these type off heaters saying how brill they are heat the oil in seconds ?? but dont have and proof ? by fitting a temp gauge im hoping to test a few different types to see which actual do heat the oil to 80oc as needed to burn corectly ??
and how long after cold start it takes (critical)
im also testing heated fueline etc when funds permit
ALSO ON TO BIODINO ...
people are told any dino can use it ? they cant old dino engine have rubber fuel lines,rubber seals in the pump etc (pre 1995 i think cant use it)
a mate off mine was running a 1992 2.8 diahatsu engine on veg oil loved it 50/50,75/25 for years on probs
so decided to so buy another 1990 diahatsu 2.8td run on veg for a while but he decide to try biodiesel all was well for the first few days them the seals went on the pump bio everywere ( new pump £1200) the jeep was retired for parts ??
got another 1992 2.8td used bio again fuel return pipes started leaking ,replaced them 2 days later the same seals went on the pump ??
replace the engine in this one complete started using veg again 4 years on still running very well no leaks no problems
SORRY FORR GOING ON ??
anyways on last thing if running on svo or wvo change your engine oil every 3000-4000 miles
cheers

allthough i agree on the oil change frequency, i ran my 95 fourtrak on between 50/50 to even 90/10 svo, i never noticed a change in oil level, either up or down, i wont say i was loosing it and any residue was bouying it up as prior to svo she was the same over 6k miles, im big believer in more than recomended oil changes anyway, even running dino fuel
never tried her on wvo,as outlined in an earlier post i could not get any, she actually ran better on the veg mix, got dipped only once by the customs test team, she was on 50/50 then, told them before the test, they said point blank not interested unless i was using red
if i could store 2000 ltrs of svo i would consider investing in a two tank system on the warrior, i cant, 500 ltrs is pushing it, so the worry is veg gets scarce or only at silly prices everywere, in which case it wont be a cheap optional extra to have lashed out on the kit

one thing that worries me, say you run out of veg, cant get any and obviously the small dino tank is too small, will filling the veg tank with dino be a problem at a later date ?? as in damaging something

no not a problem at all as you have a switch fitted to send it over to veg so just dont switch it over !!
the reason i said about oil changes is that when you are starting from cold the veg does burn whats left goes into the sump and congels (sorry about spelling)
i was running a 1995 musso F/S/H mercedes engine on 90% oil levels were fine etc
went offroading for the day was running for 6 hours approx on the way home on the m62 engine started knocking 70 mph by the time i pulled over it was fuc$ed ..
rac towed me home
had a look the next day drain the oil well sludge for the sump was like tar
car was scrapped
I HAD DONE 4000MLS SINCE OIL CHANGE ?
it really happens that fast spoken to a few people thats done the same ??

ive used this oil for years off the same guy single tank with a 12v fuel heater inline
not one off them crappy heater plug thing that can cook the oil and the heater plugs can flake coursing serious damage to the pump !!! (so im told)bewarned ...
my heater is inline 12v just before the filter + pump heats the oil to 80oc within minutes (im told)

all the companys supply these type off heaters saying how brill they are heat the oil in seconds ??

No offence but I think you're missing a critical point here. These electric heaters do heat the oil to 80*c fairly quickly.
But think how much oil you've actually heated up in the line.
Then think how hot it will still be after it's been through a 10kg stone cold injector pump, then forced through a stone cold injector into 100kg of stone cold engine.
Any heat you've got into the oil will be lost the second it goes into the pump.

The oil is back to being as cold as it was before it was heated. So you get a poor injector spray pattern. The oil doesn't atomise, rather just sticks to the cylinder walls, doesn't combust properly, causes ring gumming, bore wash and ultimately sump oil polymerisation and loss of compression.

Which is why the proper method is to twin tank your motor. Start up on diesel, like it's designed to, then once the engine is up to temperature, switch over onto oil. By this time, the engine will be warm, and more importantly so will the pump and injectors. This allows it to atomise properly, getting a proper spray pattern and not just sticking to the cylinder walls causing bore wash. If you're using oil without a proper kit, it's no wonder you're suffering engine problems.__________________________________Nothing more permanent than a temporary repair.

Last edited by cieranc on Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

ive been running on veg for 9 yrs OVER 100,000MLS im telling the truth about things that have happened to my cars TRUTH NOT CRAP AT ALL ?
yes i did make the mistake with not changing my oil and knackered the engine ? im stating this because it happened ? IM NOT SCARING ANYBODY !!!
there 1000s off people running on 1 tank mixing the veg,derv,petrol and i thought that they needed to know to change there oil ? WHATS THE PROBLEM ?
i also know about cold starting on veg ?
ive got heated fuel lines im just trying to advise people as to whats happened to my cars using neat or mixed veg instead off saying fit a £500-1200 veggy kit which alot off people cant afford ?
the car im running now ive dne 35,000mls on veg mix not a problem
changed oil every 3k ive stripped the head off and check was suprise how clean it was i will continue to use veggy mix as long as im around withut a kit as ive always done !!!
weather people run on veg,bio diesel thats there choice NOT MINE all i can do is tell people whats happened me or my friend cars THE TRUTH

also like to add
both ur landy are using bosch pumps the best for running veg
i was running a tdi myself fr 4 yrs 75% veg not a problem no kit that was 3yrs ago shes still on veg on running now with new owner
and yes i argee that its the o ring or gaskets that need changing pre 1992
but what does it cost to get done ? in a garage im talking as most people wont have a clue how to change then hence i sain knackers the pump !!
thats my opion and exprience and im intitled to share it with anybody i wish with out getting offenced at all

Aye, but changing your engine oil every 3,000 miles is not the cure for the problems caused by cold starting on veg. It's just masking the fact the oil is getting contaminated by premature engine wear.
You shouldn't have to change the engine oil every 3,000 miles. If you do have to it's because there's a problem, and that problem is piston ring failure caused by poorly combusted veg oil.

Heated fuel lines do not overcome the damage caused by cold-starting on veg oil, as said whatever heat you've put into the fuel is lost the moment it goes into a cold injector pump. You're still trying to inject cold oil into a cold engine.

Fact is, there is no practical way to cold start on veg oil without causing long term engine damage, which is why all the experts recommend using a twin tank kit.

No-one's meaning to cause you offence mate, and of course it's a public forum, but cold starting on veg oil or blends of fuel will cause long term damage and premature engine failure.

It doesn't have to be £500+ for a twin tank kit, after all, what do you really need? A small tank for derv, a switchover valve, a small heat exchanger, some pipework and some odd fittings. Can get everything needed for well under £100.__________________________________Nothing more permanent than a temporary repair.

I'll push in here to back up the guys - You will kill a Direct Injection Diesel by cold starting it on Vegetable oil - also by running Soya oils you'll also tend to Block injectors.
Bosch pump or no bosch pump.....

Why not twin tank? You'll save even MORE money (Run 100% Veg oil, no messing with blends)
You guarantee the life of your engine.
And you know she'll definately start on that frosty morning.
All for about £100 outlay on parts and a few hours to fit.

Also the Bosch Rotary is not quite the best veggie IP.
Try getting a Bosch Inline!__________________________________Nat

hi i know when fitting a 2 tank system that yu wait for the engine to warm and switch over to veg but can anybody tell me ..
how long it takes for the actual combustion chamber to reach 80oc ?
and why diesel oil is so black after changing it ? cheers

hi i know when fitting a 2 tank system that yu wait for the engine to warm and switch over to veg but can anybody tell me ..
how long it takes for the actual combustion chamber to reach 80oc ?
and why diesel oil is so black after changing it ? cheers

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