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Re: Trayvon Martin

Originally Posted by disillusionedpatriot

Bedlam,

You've accepted Stalin's propaganda if you believe that the German national socialist party is "rightwing". Jonah Goldberg does a good job tracing the roots of this error in his book "Liberal Fascism".

Or Friedrich Hayek makes note of the same thing, with his observation that in 1920's and early 1930's Germany the best recruiting pools for both the Communists and the Nazi's were each other. You can also look at the platforms of the two and see how similar they are.

The main difference between the two is scope. Communists want worldwide socialism of the worker. National socialists or fascists want socialism for their nation (Mussolini) or their particular defined class of persons (Aryans).

Accurate and balanced definition of International & National socialism. Nothing more to addddd. This is dead on.

Re: Trayvon Martin

The Spanish Civil War was an argument about which individual or group would dominate Spain. It had little, if anything, to do with political or economic philosophy. The same was true during WWII between Russia and Germany. Hitler wanted to dominate Russia, Russia did not want to be dominated by Hitler. (for some reason they preferred to be dominated by another bloodthirsty murderer, Stalin, but that's another story).

Re: Trayvon Martin

For years now it's been unclear where journalism and news reporting end and sports and entertainment begin.
Now it seems that our political, justice, police, and perhaps even our military have gone the same way.
As for bread and banking, do they really expect me to put chicken in my toaster?

Re: Trayvon Martin

[Comments mine.]

"Bloomberg will join the Rev. Al Sharpton in Washington D.C. Wednesday
to announce a national campaign to repeal the controversial laws,
which in general hold that a person has no duty to retreat when attacked.

Opponents of the laws, however, say they should really be called
"Shoot First, Ask Questions Later."

"I don't think any civilized society should allow people to just all
of a sudden decide they don't like somebody, feel threatened or
whatever it is, pull a gun and kill em," Bloomberg told reporters in
New York before hopping a flight to D.C.

[Which is not what the law is - and Bloomberg knows it. I have to wonder how hese morons manage to get so much money.]

Florida is one of 21 states that have passed "Stand Your Ground" laws
since 2005. Florida's version allows police to decide whether they
believe the shooter's claims of self-defense.

New York does not have such a law on the books, but one has been
championed by state Sen. George Maziarz (R-Niagara County).

[I'm not so sure that is true. It is true that NY has no specific law but deadly force is justified to resist robbery, rape, murder, and arson.]

His bill proposes expanding the rights of gun owners to use deadly
force outside of their homes if they have reason to fear for their safety.

"Individuals, in their homes, on their own property, in their cars,
have every right to protect themselves now if they feel threatened,
legitimately threatened," Maziarz said.

"This law is absolutely not about protecting vigilantes, or people
who take the law into their own hands," he added.

Bloomberg said the new campaign wants to deep-six New York's proposed
law, and get other states that have already passed them to review
their impacts.

[I suspect that the most significant impact of these laws is a significant reduction in violent, confrontational crime.]

"I'm going down to Washington to try to, with other groups, explain
to the country why these laws are a terrible idea," Bloomberg said."

[My guess is that a lot, maybe all, of the affected states will tell Bloomberg to go to hell.]

Re: Trayvon Martin

Originally Posted by disillusionedpatriot

Bedlam,

You've accepted Stalin's propaganda if you believe that the German national socialist party is "rightwing". Jonah Goldberg does a good job tracing the roots of this error in his book "Liberal Fascism".

Or Friedrich Hayek makes note of the same thing, with his observation that in 1920's and early 1930's Germany the best recruiting pools for both the Communists and the Nazi's were each other. You can also look at the platforms of the two and see how similar they are.

The main difference between the two is scope. Communists want worldwide socialism of the worker. National socialists or fascists want socialism for their nation (Mussolini) or their particular defined class of persons (Aryans).

Re: Trayvon Martin

This whole case is very sad. A young man died. When I first heard of the incident I felt sympathy for George Zimmerman at the centre of a media ****storm used by everyone with a political bandwagon for sale.

I know the media is biased. However the more I've read about this the more I think it's right he is under arrest.

When you carry a firearm in public you take on a responibility and it's right you are held to a higher standard.

My personal hypothesis is cock up fuelled by fear:

George Z. Trying to do something useful for his community. He is concearned, feels threatened maybe a bit of a gated mentality.

Trayvon M. Not a resident and possibly not familiar with the area, locals, it's evening (and raining?) so he's probably not 100% sure of his route.

GZ spots TM and thinks he is suspicous because he is looking around. TM is probably trying to see house numbers or a landmark, he may notice GZ watching him.

TM is on foot. GZ calls the Police and follows TM in a vehicle. TM has noticed he is being followed by a vehicle and the driver is on the phone. TM is quite reasonably concerned. TM doesn't know who GZ is or who he is calling, he cannot easily call for help (no phone?). TM tries to evade whoever is following him. GZ is repeatedly advised by the Police not to follow TM.

Now it gets fuzzy.

GZ loses sight of TM. TM may have tried to hide or attempted to get closer to the person following him before whoever he was calling arrives, either could be a tactic to break pursuit. TM doesn't know GZ is armed.

GZ is confronted by/confronts TM on foot. There is an altercation and TM is shot.

TM stood his ground against a suspicious person following him, after having tried to avoid a confronation, his actions were self defense. What could he have done differently?

GZ did most of the work to make this happen. His actions were causal and he had the opportunity to stop events. That is not standing your ground. He is a licenced weapon carrier not a swat team and should not of allowed himself to get into this position. At best he ****ed up badly.

Re: Trayvon Martin

So, Andy, If I think you are following me I am justified in assaulting you? The ME found that Martin had a close-range gunshot wound and no other mark on his body. Both participants were fairly much the same size and weight, and Zimmerman had a broken nose and contusions on the back of his head.

Actually, getting arrested was probably the best thing for Zimmerman, given the hoorah about this case and the threats to his person. He is probably safer in jail and now the legal processes of submitting evidence can begin. I await such presentation before reaching any conclusions about this case.

Re: Trayvon Martin

Originally Posted by andyoz

TM is on foot. GZ calls the Police and follows TM in a vehicle. TM has noticed he is being followed by a vehicle and the driver is on the phone. TM is quite reasonably concerned. TM doesn't know who GZ is or who he is calling, he cannot easily call for help (no phone?). TM tries to evade whoever is following him. GZ is repeatedly advised by the Police not to follow TM.

It's hard to know what is "truth" and what is fabrication and poor recollection (even during and after the expected trial), but one thing you seem to have wrong here is that he was reportedly on his phone talking to a girl friend. One of the things she supposedly "reported" in her listened-to discussion with the TM's family's lawyer is that when TM noticed he was being observed he put his hood up.

Anyway, he had the means to call the police had he wanted to rather than apparently trying to further hide his identity.