the thing is he never looked like a world class defender, ever. not once in his career, it's why people were laughing at the fee involved from the start, he isn't terrible or anything but he's in the same tier as like 20 other CB's in the league

when you cost like 150m (in total across a contract + GL tax) you need to deliver week in week out or face backlash

look at the flack City caught after Stones' first season and he cost them considerably less

Fees don't always reflect the quality of the players tho. Southampton set the fee and they knew with Pool and City revolving around they could make that money and both being desperate the fix their back line would be willing to spend that money. Transfer themselves are gambles at the end of the day rather it's a future ballon dor talent, proven world class player and so forth.

Walker was expensive, yet now he looks cheap now at how well he's done at City. Jesus, Martial and Sane also were expensive for players their age and one not even being proven in Europe yet look like they'll be bargains in today market.

_________________

"I pass and I move, I help you, I look for you, I stop, I raise my head, I look and, above all, I open up the pitch...The one who has the ball, is the master of the game...That's the school of Joan Vilà, of Albert Benaiges, of Johan Cruijff, of Pep Guardiola" - Xavi

Ball watching, that is standard ball watching from all the Liverpool defenders. Though Van D-Bag actually saw Mata and told himself, nah, would let the other lads pick him up while I stand in no man's land.

_________________

People of Eternia! I stand before the Great Eye of the galaxy. Chosen by destiny to receive the powers of Greyskull! This inevitable moment will transpire before your eyes, even as He-Man himself bears witness to it. Now. I, Skeletor, am Master of the Universe!

cannot believe Mata took on a bicycle kick in that situation ffs. But yeah, VVD is a beast in the air, but that's where it ends for me. Said it all along but he's a rich mans Ashley Williams and in the same tier of CB as Smalling and Lejeune. Not bad, not elite.

Jesus, what an expensive waste for this guy, his position for the goals, doesnt help when all Liverpool defenders were bad though. Not too sure how much of it is Klopps fault, his teams as usual defend like that

@BarcaLearning wrote:Jesus, what an expensive waste for this guy, his position for the goals, doesnt help when all Liverpool defenders were bad though. Not too sure how much of it is Klopps fault, his teams as usual defend like that

Na, No way he was reaching Mata, It Lovren who lost his man.

CB is blind, I can't even believe he posted in this thread with that video.

Even if he wants to blame VVD for that, He should have started with Lovren and after that the second closest player to Mata who was Can. There was one small dude (Mata) in the box who started his run from outside losing Can and getting behind Lovren even though Lovren had noticed his run already. Two players who need to get the *bleep* out of Liverpool.

I mean I'm not going to argue that Lovren is partially at fault because he certainly is, but you can see Van Dijk notice Mata's position, make some sort of half hearted appeal to Can or Lovren to mark him (which they either don't hear or ignore), then Van Dijk walks away from the area he really ought to be defending (that is his area of the box) to go guard...who exactly? Lukaku who is outside the 18 and has Oxlade on his way to cover him?

Part of being a good centerback is communication and realizing your backline partners' mistakes.

Even if I gave you the luxury that it was Lovren's man and and Lovren was the one who really messed up, what kind of justification do you have for Van Dijk being positioned where he is? He's not covering anyone, he's not really getting that close to Lukaku, he's not really in line with other defenders and he's going farther up than the ball anyway, so you can't say he's playing an offside trap. He's in no mans land.

I'm kind of astounded that you're actually arguing this one instead of just conceding it. There is no justification here lol. A player doesn't get that open inside the box without both centerbacks and probably more players being at fault, and Van Dijk is included.

This is me giving the less harsh and more eloquent response other than the obvious response which is that he *bleep* it up

Its a team error as stated comprehensible from both my posts but I give Lovren the max fault because he played Mata onside and would have followed his run had he held the line rather allowing Mata space to run into through his absolutely schoolboy and horrendous positioning. My eyes bleed when I look at him holding that line compared to ATA, VVD and Robertson.

This is the original starting position of the move. VVD is the farthest with semantics, Ofcourse he could have gone and tightened up (Where he is partially at fault) but Can is already in a run and he still doesnt reach Mata. I blame Lovren for losing him and I can't see how you don't see it even after both photographic proof and you can rewatch the videos as well.

Also notice here, Lovren maintains the line perfectly in the first image. He is the one who then breaks it allowing Mata to move into space ie see second image.

It should have been dealt by Lovren, I'd understand if someone would say Lovren should have tightened upto Rashford as well (Which he didn't) which makes it hilarious from start to stop.

I'd to hear what other people think as well though. Its a good discussion.

@Nishankly wrote:Its not about justifying or arguing, You're missing the major points.

This is the original starting position of the move. VVD is the farthest with semantics, Ofcourse he could have gone and tightened up (Where he is partially at fault) but Can is already in a run and he still doesnt reach Mata. I blame Lovren for losing him and I can't see how you don't see it even after both photographic proof and you can rewatch the videos as well.

Also notice here, Lovren maintains the line perfectly in the first image. He is the one who then breaks it allowing Mata to move into space ie see second image.

It should have been dealt by Lovren, I'd understand if someone would say Lovren should have tightened upto Rashford as well (Which he didn't) which makes it hilarious from start to stop.

I'd to hear what other people think as well though. Its a good discussion.

nearly every liverpool player in the top picture is in the wrong position so its a bad team effort to defend it. that comes from the manager by the way and not just the players. ow and nascar is trolling you bro.

To me it's not really worth analyzing past the incredibly obvious, Mata strays into space and Van Dijk is caught in absolute no mans land

Lovren should have stayed with him or should have motioned to Van Dijk to pick him up, sure. Can also probably could have caught up to him OR motioned to Van Dijk to pick him up, sure. I'm not absolving others of any guilt and putting it all on Van Dijk. Like I said, someone being that open in the box is a failure of multiple players. Can doesn't really do anything and Lovren gets caught between two minds because he has to watch the run of the United player closest to Alexis running to the endline.

The fact of the matter is that on the reciprocal, Van Dijk clearly didn't let anyone know he wasn't interested in picking Mata up and decided to stray into an area of the box with absolutely no danger while seeing Mata running into open space behind him where he just was

That area of the box is absolutely his responsibility and he abdicates it to cover no one in particular. It's schoolboy defending.

As bad as Lovren plays it in the picture, at least he is caught in a bad position having to pay attention to Mata and the cut to the endline. Van Dijk has one responsibility and could have gone with a BREXIT strategy like Ashley Williams or Chiellini and just stayed in his area in the box where there was potential for danger and cleared it since he's like 7 feet tall