almost all of the enemies on timeless isle have abilities you need to be aware of...
even if there were new dungeons people would que expecting to get carried...we learned this even as far back as BC with magisters terrace...again in wotlk with ICC5mans(don't count the solo ToC dungeon...literally a tank could carry the group) and in cata yet again zg/za

it's been happening since BC, with people being lazy..
Blizz has given the real lazy people another alternative is all

bads are bad because they don't care enough to improve...making them gear from a dungeon or grinding enemies solo...
so timeless isle vs new dungeons...at least on isle you can let them solo gear, instead of carrying bads for gear through new dungeons...

Maybe for new players it would be more helpful to learning if they had to farm dungeons, but for both new players and veterans alike the Timeless Isle is by far more entertaining.

Don't generalise, please. I play this game since pre-BC patch, and I find pve part of the island hilarious mindless GW2-styled zergfuck. Though, in GW2 that hilarious, mindless zergfuck is better due to events are not finished in a 8 seconds after starting. I love dungeons, and its a shame we traded dungeons - not the mop parodies of dungeons, but good, old, hard dungeons like BRD - in favor of mindless mobgrind. Tells a lot about modern gamers, hehe.

If you enjoy the isle, your server must not be high pop. I can't even try to gear up by killing rares on mine because they die in <5 seconds. Most of the people who enjoyed getting full 535 gear got it by buying burdens or before the key chests were nerfed. I'd much rather have new 5 mans where I can atleast play my class rather than hit a button once and hope I managed to get a tag.

I just came to this conclusion after seeing many people in LFR with Timeless Isle gear, they were doing less than 50-60K DPS and they were just bad.

I have pretty much full 496 Timeless Isle gear on my sham and can pull over 100k on the majority of fights in SoO. The issue is not people gearing up easily, it's that they think just because they have decent gear, that makes them a decent player. No. If people checked how to play the class properly, like using Icy-Veins considering it's so simple to do, then they'd probably do better..

Did I say it's super hard? No. But it's harder then doing MoP dungeons. I can tell you that I need to move more as a tank on ordon mobs then I ever did in dungeons on bosses.

And as A hunter I can just sit and pew pew that mob you are tanking and that healer is healing you unlike I don't know the 2nd to last boss on Jade temple where I have to avoid fire waves, fire on the ground cause technically that is harder despite the fact that boss is easy. My point remains if you can't solo bosses in MoP dungeons, they aren't easier than mobs on Timeless. You can solo mobs on timeless. Even the guy I quoted said he has to be careful as not to die, but that doesn't mean he can't solo them. If you can solo a mobs on Timeless, that to me means they are easier than the Dungeon Bosses. I don't know about you, but I don't hear regularly how people are soloing MoP dungeons. Like I also said one on one they aren't harder than bosses in dungeons. If you get a ton of them and round them up, yea of course 4-6 will beat your brains in cause they hit like trucks, but you get 4-6 MoP dungeon bosses and they will do worse. If you want to argue that not one but a 3-6 mobs at a time are tougher than a MoP dungeon boss, I can see that argument, but not 1 elite mobs vs a traditional dungeon group.

The only thing I really enjoy about the Island is the celestial tournament. I found after the first few days that running around killing rares got boring. Although I really do like how they did the gear catch up.

This is basically just you saying that you don't like TI. Well that's a shame, I personally love it.

P.S. Dunno why people are so obsessed with new dungeons. Blizzard is trying to break the "log in and queue for something while sitting in Org" habit and clearly that is REALLY ingrained in some people.

Originally Posted by Eazy

-they can get gear just after they find chests(don't even need to kill mobs),

Good luck with that LOL.

Originally Posted by Eazy

-new dungeons would be overall better than Timeless Isle, which is grind fest(of course doing dungeons is also grinding, but not as much as Timeless Isle, people enjoy more doing dungeons)

LOL beg the question much?

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by l33t

Don't generalise, please. I play this game since pre-BC patch, and I find pve part of the island hilarious mindless GW2-styled zergfuck. Though, in GW2 that hilarious, mindless zergfuck is better due to events are not finished in a 8 seconds after starting. I love dungeons, and its a shame we traded dungeons - not the mop parodies of dungeons, but good, old, hard dungeons like BRD - in favor of mindless mobgrind. Tells a lot about modern gamers, hehe.

You "traded" dungeons for larger raids. The raid and dungeon teams share resources, the quest/daily/event hub team is different.

They could make 3 new dungeons and make SoO more like DS if you'd like.

I loved the early cataclysm heroics, and would love for Blizzard to at the very least add another dungeon difficulty and put the early cataclysm heroic version there, so that those who can't handle it can keep on grinding their mindless npc's with no effort without being able to complain about losing out on dungeons. Alas, I doubt Blizzard will ever do this, it would be too good to be true.

This is something I would like them to do:
Heroic dungeons -> regular dungeons
new mode -------> heroic dungeons, requires a premade group (otherwise people will call out for nerfs).
challenge modes--> challenge mode

I loved Heroics in Cata (coming from a new player who'd never done a max level dungeon) and I loved Challenge Modes.
I really think Challenge Modes were almost a perfect substitute however.
The transmog items were well made (save for a 1 or 2 classes) and the level of play was obviously intensified.

I just miss the multitude of mechanics that allowed for more strategy in Cata Heroics. Grim Batol and Halls of Origination where soooo good.

I don't see how a new dungeon would better prepare someone for raiding over any of the old dungeons as far as learning mechanics goes, and it's never been Blizzard's responsibility to teach you what your dps rotation is. A new dungeon is the same as Timeless Isle in that it's a way to get new gear. While that might be fun and adds a bit more story to the game, at the same time it can be painful like a mini SoO LFR run.

honestly it is another crazy 180° for blizzard, they start gating everything behind a rep and then finish it with a rain of epics, GC should really be fired he tried to change thing unnecessary and then do this shit over and over.

Originally Posted by caervek

Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

You "traded" dungeons for larger raids. The raid and dungeon teams share resources, the quest/daily/event hub team is different.
They could make 3 new dungeons and make SoO more like DS if you'd like.

Oh, come on, please. I'm so tired of this lazy bullshit on every corner. "You want new raids or character models?" "You want new raids or class balance?" "You want new raids or *insert anything players are throwing at blizz at the moment*". I want the lazy dev team gone, and returning back of the dev team that somehow managed to do all this things at the same time, without blackmailing players every here and there for "hurr durr bad raids".
Basically, I just want Greg "Let's nerf Shadow word: Pain for 15%" Street gone, to be honest. He is the worst that could happen to game. Pompous, lazy asshole.

Oh, come on, please. I'm so tired of this lazy bullshit on every corner. "You want new raids or character models?" "You want new raids or class balance?" "You want new raids or *insert anything players are throwing at blizz at the moment*". I want the lazy dev team gone, and returning back of the dev team that somehow managed to do all this things at the same time, without blackmailing players every here and there for "hurr durr bad raids".
Basically, I just want Greg "Let's nerf Shadow word: Pain for 15%" Street gone, to be honest. He is the worst that could happen to game. Pompous, lazy asshole.

I am laughing my ass off here. Hell, I enjoyed TBC, but are you seriously telling me that was the time when they "gave you everything"? Did you even play the same game? TBC was the time when all you got for 9 months was Black Temple and a voice chat patch. Then the team panicked because it would take even longer for Wrath to come out and gave you a 5 boss gated raid, a daily hub and one 5 mean. If you wanna talk "lazy" I swear "gating" - be it through an actual timed unlock, resistance fights or endless attunements (KT and LV used to drop 4 quest items each initially, you just HAD to kill them 7 weeks to get to the next raid tier) are on the list of people today that define "lazy"

Honestly, if you are tired of lazy bullshit, I am tired of judgemental people (especially if they have zero clue how games are made)

Oh, come on, please. I'm so tired of this lazy bullshit on every corner. "You want new raids or character models?" "You want new raids or class balance?" "You want new raids or *insert anything players are throwing at blizz at the moment*". I want the lazy dev team gone, and returning back of the dev team that somehow managed to do all this things at the same time, without blackmailing players every here and there for "hurr durr bad raids".
Basically, I just want Greg "Let's nerf Shadow word: Pain for 15%" Street gone, to be honest. He is the worst that could happen to game. Pompous, lazy asshole.

I don't like it either but the guy you are quoting is essentially correct. Dungeons went out the window so raids could be bigger.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.