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I don't think Trayvon had lean in his system.. just a small amount of THC.

His behavior as shown in the c-store videos from the night in question seem to show the influence of something more than "just a small amount of THC." If you didn't know it, lean has a similar effect as PCP (angel dust) on a lot of people. And even if TM hadn't used lean that night, long-term use of the concoction appears to result in paranoia and violent behavior.

Originally Posted by feltdizz

"I'm going to kill you" ....if everyone shot someone over those words before or during a fight when nothing but fist were involved we would run out of bullets in a week.

I've heard people say "I'm going to kill you" before a fight or during fights at least 100 times.. not one time did I see anyone kill another person with their bare hands.

I don't trust anyone... but I also don't believe most people when they say they are going to kill someone during a heated argument. Now, if a weapon is in hand then I certainly will believe them but people say all sorts of crazy things during heated exchanges.

Again, if someone I didn't know jumped me and punched me in the face and took me down and was beating my head on the concrete, I'd be inclined to believe he really did mean to kill me. If you, in that situation, would believe otherwise, well, you ARE trusting the other guy a lot more than I would.

Originally Posted by feltdizz

Also remember.. this was a grown man, a stranger who never said he was neighborhood watch, following a 17 year old through the neighborhood. I would have said some crazy things as well because I'm thinking some creepy dude is following me.

OK, but it's the combination of things. If TM merely said some crazy things, that would be one thing.
But jumping GZ and putting a beating on him as well? Highly stupid. As I said before, he never considered that GZ might have a gun.

And yes, GZ was highly stupid for following TM rather than just letting the police take care of it. As I said before, I don't think he ever considered that TM might jump him.

Also.. It's my understanding Lean/purple drank/sizzurp makes you lazy and lethargic. It was started in Houston and DJ's made records called chopped and screwed when on it. Those records are reeeeeeal sloooow because the drink makes you drowsy.

Look on youtube and see kids on lean or sizzurp. They aren't jumping around hyped up... they are damn near in a coma.

I'm not a doctor though so who knows.. but from all the talk I've heard about it the side effects are laziness. The QB from the Raida's is a prime example of what lean does to a person.

You need to do some more research. Side effects may be as you described with low doses, but higher doses of lean result in the same kind of effect as PCP or ketamine.

And long-term use of lean has been shown to produce aggressive, violent, antisocial behavior.

It's been a long time since I've studied American history, but from what I remember, the founding father were the ones that owned all the land and had all the vested interests in America. And my take on the Constitution was that it was written to protect their vested interests in American society. And when it comes to the 2nd amendment, it was all about protecting these interests from the British loyalists.

Somehow, we've collectively romanticized the Constitution into a sort of religion and have tried to morph those interests into our own vested interests. And I think that comes from our own pride and need to feel important. The Constitution protects the property rights of the rich to this day. It's great to feel like it was designed for the well being and protection of all of us. And to a degree, it's worked in that way and has kept a somewhat civil society. But the second amendment almost seems silly to a degree today. Where is this invisible militia taking on the Federal and State governments to keep them in check? If you look at the bills that are passed on a daily basis, they all have loads of crap that the majority of Americans don't need/want. And the things society does want don't always matter to the legislators. The Constitution is now just a slick way to enslave the average American to the wealthy.

And life is generally good for most, so why rock the boat?

The relevence of having a gun to protect you and your family may be more valid now than a hundred years ago. Just look at the crime rates in major cities and the amount of gun violence. Do you really think that career criminals and drug dealers are going to turn in their guns as part of a amnesty program. You know they won't so law abiding citizens have to prepare for the worst. It may not be the Indians attacking a lone cabin on the frontier but when someone busts into your home and threatens your family you would want the means to defend yourself just like those frontiersmen needed to.

I was trying to stay out of this TM/GZ stuff, because this is a football forum. But just wanted to offer up a perspective, from someone who knows very little about the case and what I've learned in reading this thread.

1) The perception of TM was that of an "innocent" kid (i.e. killed buying Skittles). That doesn't seem to be the case. He wasn't a criminal, but it did seem like he was one of those kids (not unlike any other teenage kid) who carries a certain chip on their shoulder.

You can find info about TM, his record of drug use and other trouble, and his tweets, that help explain his character and possible frame of mind. He was far from the innocent little boy the media portrayed him to be.

Originally Posted by Shoe

2) GZ was portrayed as an overzealous wannabe type, and it would appear that description is still accurate.

GZ had had his own problems with restraining orders, etc., and he badly wanted to be a cop...what we find about him fits the picture of, as you put it, "the overzealous wannabe type."

Originally Posted by Shoe

3) I still don't know many of the KNOWN particulars of the incident. I know (from reading) that 911 told him to chill out and don't pursue. In terms of the actual fight, I wonder what is actually known. It seems fairly apparent that there was a fight in which GZ was on his back (i.e. blood on back of head). In that regard, whatever he did can be justified IMO.

There's a lot about what happened that we don't know and probably never will. In the end, that's really why GZ was found not guilty. There just wasn't enough evidence to prove that he committed murder or even manslaughter.

Originally Posted by Shoe

I don't understand why this is a racial case though.

Because people in the government and in the media decided they wanted to make it so. There's been no evidence presented that shows racism on GZ's part.

A division of the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) was deployed to Sanford, Florida in 2012 to provide assistance for anti-George Zimmerman protests, including a rally headlined by activist Al Sharpton, according to newly released documents.

The Community Relations Service (CRS), a unit of DOJ, reported expenses related to its deployment in Sanford to help manage protests between March and April 2012, [URL="http://www.judicialwatch.org/bulletins/doj-sends-secret-peacekeepers-where-trayvon-martin-was-killed/"]according to documents[/URL] obtained by the watchdog group Judicial Watch.

CRS spent $674.14 between March 25-27 related to having been “deployed to Sanford, FL, to work marches, demonstrations, and rallies related to the shooting and death of an African-American teen by a neighborhood watch captain.” CRS spent another $1,142.84 for the same purpose between March 25-28.

CRS spent $892.55 “to provide support for protest deployment in Florida” between March 30-April 1, and $751.60 “to provide technical assistance to the City of Sanford, event organizers, and law enforcement agencies for the march and [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/31/justice/florida-teen-shooting"]rally on March 31.”
[/URL]
Sharpton, who promoted the Tawana Brawley hoax in the 1980s and in 1995 led a protest against the “white interloper” owner of a Harlem clothing store that ended in a deadly shooting rampage at the store, was a featured speaker [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfMJrbPCkUA"]at the March 31 rally[/URL], called “The March for Trayvon Martin,” where he advocated for Zimmerman’s prosecution.

CRS expenditures related to the anti-Zimmerman protests continued through mid-April. Between April 11 and April 12, CRS spent $552.35 “to provide technical assistance for the preparation of possible marches and rallies related to the fatal shooting of a 17 year old African American male.”

Local government officials noticed the Department of Justice’s efforts in building “bridges of understanding” in Sanford. “Congratulations to our partners, Thomas Battles, Regional Director, and Mildred De Robles, Miami-Dade Coordinator and their co-workers at the U.S. Department of Justice Community Relations Service for their outstanding and ongoing efforts to reduce tensions and build bridges of understanding and respect in Sanford, Florida,” wrote Amy Carswell, Miami-Dade County Community Relations Board Program Officer, in an April 16 email.

“Thank you Partner. You did lots of stuff behind the scene to make Miami a success. We will continue to work together,” DOJ official Thomas Battles wrote in reply to Carswell.

“That’s why we make the big bucks,” Carswell replied.

CRS was established by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. According to the CRS web page, “The Community Relations Service is the Department’s ‘peacemaker’ for community conflicts and tensions arising from differences of race, color, and national origin. Created by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, CRS is the only Federal agency dedicated to assist State and local units of government, private and public organizations, and community groups with preventing and resolving racial and ethnic tensions, incidents, and civil disorders, and in restoring racial stability and harmony.”

A Department of Justice spokesperson said that she did not know off the top of her head what CRS’ role was in the anti-Zimmerman protests but is currently trying to figure out that answer. The Daily Caller will update this story upon receiving a statement from DOJ.

UPDATE:
DOJ spokesperson Dena Iverson emailed a statement to The Daily Caller, saying, ”The Community Relations Service was in Florida as part of their mandated mission,” along with a link to the [URL="http://www.justice.gov/crs/about-crs.htm"]CRS’s website[/URL].

There is a difference between organizing a rally and making sure a rally is peaceful and follows proper protocol to ensure there isnt violence. I have no idea what their role was but those financial statements are extremely low for govt spending.

One other thing about those citing Trayvons criminal past. Zimmerman has 3 arrest that asre sealed/closed..probably due to his fathers influence. A domestic violence charge, resisting arrest by an officer without violence and resisting arrest with violence.