I was going to add some things to ponder. You all were talking about the shadow....the Hebrew word for that also runs into words that mean, shadow of death, grave, ghost.

The interesting thing there about how God "plays" with letters, is if you add one letter to that word, you get a word that runs into meanings of rib, side chamber, something curved, and even being bowed (curved) to pray, limp (as in Jacob). So they are alike in the sense that they all cast a shadow from being "curved". This is why I love the Hebrew, because it shows how things are related in thought, that we would never think of. Just a side note, I thought you might enjoy.

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Hi Sheila....yes, what you're referring to is called gematria. Gematria is the assignment of numbers to letters. Sometimes I like to just read the Hebrew words in the concordance. The first time I saw Hebrew I thought it looked like a language of flames.

In the case of gematria though, the Hebrew letters themselves also have meanings, and so do the numbers. Numerology, on the other hand, is using numbers to foretell the future and indicate a person's supposed personality traits, and therefore is included in the occult, which is forbidden by God.

I hated math, but excelled in English and language. If I had only known God, I believe I could have "got" math, as one day I was watching a show on the science channel about the discoverer of pi, and how he did it. I was astonished as the Lord dropped into my spirit how he did, right before they said how he did it. If that doesn't prove their inspiration comes from the HS and most of the scientists just don't realize it, nothing does, because my cat would have had a better chance of figuring that one out, than ME, LOL. Blessings....

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were made by God's word [By faith we understand the worlds to be shaped, or made, by God's word], that visible things were made of invisible things.

--Heb 11

Molly . . .I'm not sure if it's me . .or if it's you . .but you've been really speaking volumes to be today. Thank you for that.

Do you think we can ascend, in this phase of existance, to the point where we don't need faith to see and hear our Lord?

cp

for me, i do believe so.

Receiving the end of your faith, the salvation of your soul.

When that which is perfect is come.

When we know, who we are. Who defines us. When we know that I and the Father are one. When peace that passeth understanding is ours.

For me, yes.

Excellent Zeek, just excellent. That's looking at things from the home perspective!

Even our studying and dissecting the Bible can be done away with at some point don't ya think? I mean if we are home why the need to search out what it's like, just look around. But if we are away from home then I suppose we need to keep trying to find it or find reminders of it.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were made by God's word [By faith we understand the worlds to be shaped, or made, by God's word], that visible things were made of invisible things.

--Heb 11

Molly . . .I'm not sure if it's me . .or if it's you . .but you've been really speaking volumes to be today. Thank you for that.

Do you think we can ascend, in this phase of existance, to the point where we don't need faith to see and hear our Lord?

cp

for me, i do believe so.

Receiving the end of your faith, the salvation of your soul.

When that which is perfect is come.

When we know, who we are. Who defines us. When we know that I and the Father are one. When peace that passeth understanding is ours.

For me, yes.

Excellent Zeek, just excellent. That's looking at things from the home perspective!

Even our studying and dissecting the Bible can be done away with at some point don't ya think? I mean if we are home why the need to search out what it's like, just look around. But if we are away from home then I suppose we need to keep trying to find it or find reminders of it.

cp

Yes.

I think there comes a point where the "search for truth" is seen as "past" energy too. A NOW when we are Truth, ONE with HIM.

I can not say that I am there yet, but I get glimpses of it, and ONENESS with HIM is beyond expression. I believe LIFE is for now, not for "life after physical death".

I'm just wondering what Jesus 'saw' as He walked in this thing we call the physical. He seems to have lived in another world while here. I have an autistic boy who can look out the window for hours on end and he has such joy doing it. I wish I knew what he was seeing.

I think it's wrong to assume all people in a doctrine are the same.In about everything in life you got the 'pure' ones in the center and the other 98% have slightly to very different views.

Plus are the interviewed people really Catholics. Many people that that only go to church at Christmas and Easter to take a nap call themselfs Catholic. Has it any value to ask such people what they think of hell?

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

I think it's wrong to assume all people in a doctrine are the same.In about everything in life you got the 'pure' ones in the center and the other 98% have slightly to very different views.

Plus are the interviewed people really Catholics. Many people that that only go to church at Christmas and Easter to take a nap call themselfs Catholic. Has it any value to ask such people what they think of hell?

Yea, and just the fact they are "Italian Catholics" maybe the majority of them are connected to the Mafia in one form or another and thus connected to graft and murder.

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Just because God says He will save all mankinddoes not necessarily mean He won't.

I think it's wrong to assume all people in a doctrine are the same.In about everything in life you got the 'pure' ones in the center and the other 98% have slightly to very different views.

Plus are the interviewed people really Catholics. Many people that that only go to church at Christmas and Easter to take a nap call themselfs Catholic. Has it any value to ask such people what they think of hell?

Yea, and just the fact they are "Italian Catholics" maybe the majority of them are connected to the Mafia in one form or another and thus connected to graft and murder.

Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck...You guys are the wise guys.. . Let me take Sven's POV for a second though. Sven, is there more info about that study, specifics, conclusions as to what they were getting at, etc.? It sounds like the indication is that there's a specific portion of the population that it's postulated doesn't believe in hell...so why, and what might that mean?

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Hit man Catholic: Yo, Fatha, forgive me 'cause I just whacked a guy.Fatha: Do you feel sorry?Hit man Catholic: Who me feel sorry? Da guy whacked Vinny. He had it comin!Fatha: The dirty bum was a protestant anyway. Say 10 Our Fathers and 3 Hail Mary's.Hit man Catholic: I ain't got time for dat papa. How bout me and da boys drop off a couple grand.Fatha: Go son and be blessed.

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Just because God says He will save all mankinddoes not necessarily mean He won't.

I think it's wrong to assume all people in a doctrine are the same.In about everything in life you got the 'pure' ones in the center and the other 98% have slightly to very different views.

Plus are the interviewed people really Catholics. Many people that that only go to church at Christmas and Easter to take a nap call themselfs Catholic. Has it any value to ask such people what they think of hell?

That's a very good point. I guess I was thinking of them all as a collective hive, with a single mind called the Papacy.

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For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Are you saying from these verses you can determine from a group of people which ones are of the Body?

No, what I'm saying is, it's verses like those that determine who makes up the Body.Jesus of course is the decider of who's a sheep and who's a goat, and who's a wolf in sheep's clothing. But as far as Nathan and Tony go, I believe they consider themselves parts of the Body of Christ, the same as I consider myself a part of the Body. So rather than use an anlogy of Pharsee vs Christ, where a scuffle between brothers such as myself, Nathan and Tony are concerned, I think a more fare, balanced and accurite ananlogy would be say, Paul vs Barnabas. Acts 15:39

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For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Brian, I bet when Barnabas yelled at Paul he said Paul was a Pharisee. And Paul said, Well, I was. You still are! No I'm not! Are! Not! Are! Not!

Act 15:37-39 to see how they are faring.Now Barnabas intended to take along with them John also, who is called Mark." (38) Yet Paul counted the man who withdraws from them from Pamphylia and comes not with them to the work - this man not worthy to take along. (39) Now they become so incensed as to recoil from one another. Besides, Barnabas, taking Mark along, sails off to Cyprus."

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Just because God says He will save all mankinddoes not necessarily mean He won't.