Smolder wrote:Been reading here for a while, and I'm trying to match what I read, with what I hear and do. I'm struggling with the 'just too damn loud' factor with fender twins. I'm basically running at half power with just two power tubes... And in practice this is set to a volume of 3-4, and live maybe getting to 6. And that's all without mic'ing the amps. Obviously I'm not playing stadiums, but 100-200 person rooms (normally concrete with a high ceiling).

What I'm wondering is how you guys are managing with these huge Mac amps? I was thinking about grabbing a mc-50, but read where many see them as too small. Is there a disconnect between the watt rating of macs and twins? What am I missing here?

I have been using my HRD III power section with my SMS as the preamp with awesome results. Although the tube amp sounds significantly different than a MAC, I still have good tone from it. Thank god there is a rear pad pot on the SMS to get the right amount of tube slamming. That really helps. A 100-200 person room and smaller is where I would take my 2- 6l6 power amp of the HRD. The tube sound is better in a cement box with people are 10 feet from my amp. Outdoors is where my MC 100 and 2x12 sings. At smaller places, it really doesn't do it justice to under power 2 JBL's and a 140 watt macintosh, I don't get the tone I want from it at low volumes. But that could be that it needs some component upgrades. The MC50 is great for lower volume gigs for sure, even up to some louder gigs. But at louder gigs you may reach the headroom cutoff and get unwanted distortion if you aren't micing, especially outdoors. The macs clipping is nice in moderation, too much it sounds shitty/frizzy.

Our band moved to the presonus board recently for recording which allows us to keep our stage volume low and use the mains/monitors for sound reinforcement, rather than cranking amps that aren't mic'd to keep up. I highly recommend switching to mic'ing in med/large rooms while keeping the stage volume low. Its more to set up and deal with, but a much more manageable sound for all. Plus we can keep the band from drowning out the vocals easier.

So, yes it is very possible to work only with an MC50 and call it done. Our rhythm guitarist uses an AC15 and mics it. That is only 15 watts and has never played a stage, even some big outdoor ones, that it didn't work well.

Ok, Im lost. I have a Twin and an MC120. I have the twin at about 5, and the mac around noon, for practice. I see the peek limit lights going on in the middle of a solo thats high up the neck a lot. I dont feel like im playing that loud though. Maybe ive always played to loud, and have just gotten used to it. Hmmmmmm

Jerry1996x wrote:Ok, Im lost. I have a Twin and an MC120. I have the twin at about 5, and the mac around noon, for practice. I see the peek limit lights going on in the middle of a solo thats high up the neck a lot. I dont feel like im playing that loud though. Maybe ive always played to loud, and have just gotten used to it. Hmmmmmm

It may be that the MAC needs some cap replacements/tune up to get the output at full throttle again. Either way you should be loud as hell with everything at noon through a 2x12. I am too loud with my MC100 past 9'oclock. I remember when Brad had redone Tracy's 250 and he seemed to imply it was much louder after the recap. The clipping light can be from the signal level coming from the twin. Maybe turn down the Twin a slight notch. I think some mac clipping is good tho....

No matter how our band turns it, we play and sound better when volume is under control and set properly. What that means to anyone else is variable, but for us it means vocals should be out front and clear (FOH) and heard on stage well (through monitors). If instruments are hindering that in any way then they are too loud. If your mains can only get so loud with vocals, then the amps should compensate to find their place in the mix. To make it all more confusing all instruments get louder and lower through out the song depending on dynamics (solos, singing, etc..). Thank God for volume knobs!!

Smolder wrote:Been reading here for a while, and I'm trying to match what I read, with what I hear and do. I'm struggling with the 'just too damn loud' factor with fender twins. I'm basically running at half power with just two power tubes... And in practice this is set to a volume of 3-4, and live maybe getting to 6. And that's all without mic'ing the amps. Obviously I'm not playing stadiums, but 100-200 person rooms (normally concrete with a high ceiling).

What I'm wondering is how you guys are managing with these huge Mac amps? I was thinking about grabbing a mc-50, but read where many see them as too small. Is there a disconnect between the watt rating of macs and twins? What am I missing here?

I have had this issue as well. And its part of the reason I am looking for a Pro or even a Deluxe.

With that said 50 tube watts is in no way equal to 50 solid state watts. Tubes will sound much louder for various reasons. The one that makes the most sense o me is that when tubes begin to distort it actually sounds pretty good. When FETs tend to go you cringe. There are more technical reasons of course...

--"And I'm here by the road, tied to the load, that I picked up in ten thousand cafes and bars" - Barlow

Folks with an SMS Classic Preamp who are seeking a tad more overdriven "grit" to your sound might want to experiment with upping the levels of the rear trim pot, front gain control, or both. No, it's not "the same" as turning up the volume on a no master volume tube amp but try it and trust your ears. If you fail, you wasted 15 minutes experimenting. If it works, problem solved w/what you already have.

Disclaimers: I'm happy to share whatever relevant gear knowledge or experience I have. Genuflection/payment/proof of worthiness neither sought nor accepted. I don't design, build, market, sell or endorse for pay any new music product or service. I occasionally sell personal used gear. I am an unpaid endorser of SoundScaper Productions and Godfrey Daniels Guitarworks.