The immediate prospect for significant improvement in U.S.-Russia relations now depends on something tangible: Will the forces that sabotaged previous ceasefire agreements in Syria succeed in doing so again, all the better to keep alive the “regime change” dreams of the neoconservatives and liberal interventionists?

Or will President Trump succeed where President Obama failed by bringing the U.S. military and intelligence bureaucracies into line behind a cease-fire rather than allowing insubordination to win out?

These are truly life-or-death questions for the Syrian people and could have profound repercussions across Europe, which has been destabilized by the flood of refugees fleeing the horrific violence in the six-year proxy war that has ripped Syria apart.

But you would have little inkling of this important priority from the large page-one headlines Saturday morning in the U.S. mainstream media, which continued its long obsession with the more ephemeral question of whether Russian President Vladimir Putin would confess to the sin of “interference” in the 2016 U.S. election and promise to repent.

Thus, the headlines: “Trump, Putin talk election interference” (Washington Post) and “Trump asks Putin About Meddling During Election” (New York Times). There was also the expected harrumphing from commentators on CNN and MSNBC when Putin dared to deny that Russia had interfered.

In both the big newspapers and on cable news shows, the potential for a ceasefire in southern Syria – set to go into effect on Sunday – got decidedly second billing.

Yet, the key to Putin’s assessment of Donald Trump is whether the U.S. President is strong enough to make the mutually agreed-upon ceasefire stick. As Putin is well aware, to do so Trump will have to take on the same “deep-state” forces that cheerily scuttled similar agreements in the past. In other words, the actuarial tables for this cease-fire are not good; long life for the agreement will take something just short of a miracle.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson will have to face down hardliners in both the Pentagon and CIA. Tillerson probably expects that Defense Secretary James “Mad-Dog” Mattis and CIA Director Mike Pompeo will cooperate by ordering their troops and operatives inside Syria to restrain the U.S.-backed “moderate rebels.”

But it remains to be seen if Mattis and Pompeo can control the forces their agencies have unleashed in Syria. If recent history is any guide, it would be folly to rule out another “accidental” U.S. bombing of Syrian government troops or a well-publicized “chemical attack” or some other senseless “war crime” that social media and mainstream media will immediately blame on President Bashar al-Assad.

Bitter Experience

Last fall’s limited ceasefire in Syria, painstakingly worked out over 11 months by Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and approved personally by Presidents Obama and Putin, lasted only five days (from Sept. 12-17) before it was scuttled by “coalition” air strikes on well-known, fixed Syrian army positions, which killed between 64 and 84 Syrian troops and wounded about 100 others.

In public remarks bordering on the insubordinate, senior Pentagon officials a few days before the air attack on Sept. 17, showed unusually open skepticism regarding key aspects of the Kerry-Lavrov agreement – like sharing intelligence with the Russians (an important provision of the deal approved by both Obama and Putin).

The Pentagon’s resistance and the “accidental” bombing of Syrian troops brought these uncharacteristically blunt words from Foreign Minister Lavrov on Russian TV on Sept. 26:

“My good friend John Kerry … is under fierce criticism from the U.S. military machine. Despite the fact that, as always, [they] made assurances that the U.S. Commander in Chief, President Barack Obama, supported him in his contacts with Russia … apparently the military does not really listen to the Commander in Chief.”

Lavrov specifically criticized Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman, Gen. Joseph Dunford for telling Congress that he opposed sharing intelligence with Russia despite the fact, as Lavrov put it, “the agreements concluded on direct orders of Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Barack Obama [who] stipulated that they would share intelligence.” Noting this resistance inside the U.S. military bureaucracy, Lavrov added, “It is difficult to work with such partners.”

Putin picked up on the theme of insubordination in an Oct. 27 speech at the Valdai International Discussion Club, in which he openly lamented:

“My personal agreements with the President of the United States have not produced results. … people in Washington are ready to do everything possible to prevent these agreements from being implemented in practice.”

On Syria, Putin decried the lack of a “common front against terrorism after such lengthy negotiations, enormous effort, and difficult compromises.”

Lavrov’s Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, meanwhile, even expressed sympathy for Kerry’s quixotic effort, giving him an “A” for effort.after then-Defense Secretary Ashton Carter dispatched U.S. warplanes to provide an early death to the cease-fire so painstakingly worked out by Kerry and Lavrov for almost a year.

For his part, Kerry expressed regret – in words reflecting the hapless hubris befitting the chief envoy of the world’s “only indispensible” country – conceding that he had been unable to “align” all the forces in play.

With the ceasefire in tatters, Kerry publicly complained on Sept. 29, 2016: “Syria is as complicated as anything I’ve ever seen in public life, in the sense that there are probably about six wars or so going on at the same time – Kurd against Kurd, Kurd against Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sunni, Shia, everybody against ISIL, people against Assad, Nusra [Al Qaeda’s Syrian affiliate]. This is as mixed-up sectarian and civil war and strategic and proxies, so it’s very, very difficult to be able to align forces.”

Admitting Deep-State Pre-eminence

Only in December 2016, in an interview with Matt Viser of the Boston Globe, did Kerry admit that his efforts to deal with the Russians had been thwarted by then-Defense Secretary Ashton Carter – as well as all those forces he found so difficult to align.

“Unfortunately we had divisions within our own ranks that made the implementation [of the ceasefire agreement] extremely hard to accomplish,” Kerry said. “But it … could have worked. … The fact is we had an agreement with Russia … a joint cooperative effort.

“Now we had people in our government who were bitterly opposed to doing that,” he said. “I regret that. I think that was a mistake. I think you’d have a different situation there conceivably now if we’d been able to do that.”

The Globe’s Viser described Kerry as frustrated. Indeed, it was a tough way for Kerry to end nearly 34 years in public office.

After Friday’s discussions with President Trump, Kremlin eyes will be focused on Secretary of State Tillerson, watching to see if he has better luck than Kerry did in getting Ashton Carter’s successor, James “Mad Dog” Mattis and CIA’s latest captive-director Pompeo into line behind what President Trump wants to do.

As the new U.S.-Russia agreed-upon ceasefire goes into effect on Sunday, Putin will be eager to see if this time Trump, unlike Obama, can make a ceasefire in Syria stick; or whether, like Obama, Trump will be unable to prevent it from being sabotaged by Washington’s deep-state actors.

The proof will be in the pudding and, clearly, much depends on what happens in the next few weeks. At this point, it will take a leap of faith on Putin’s part to have much confidence that the ceasefire will hold.

Will the forces that sabotaged previous ceasefire agreements in Syria succeed in doing so again, all the better to keep alive the “regime change” dreams of the neoconservatives and liberal interventionists?

The majority of Syrians wanted rid of Assad and that was why there was an uprising. The US under Obama didn’t back it or take out Assad’s regieme with one big air strike, so the Russians came in, and that is why the majority of Syrians have been defeated in their own country. Assad could not win a free election and everyone knows it.

The majority of Syrians wanted rid of Assad and that was why there was an uprising.

On which planet do you live? What a stupid statement. Stop listening to Israel and Israel controlled US media. What do you call a free election? Is it the one in which your candidate wins? Obviously, according to you and the democrats, the 2016 US election was not free either.

If the majority of Syrian wanted Assad out, why didn't they help the US/Israel/Saudi Arabia/Qatar/UAE/Kuwait/Bahrain/UK/European Union/ Turkey/Egypt coalition forces.

That is the most ludicrous statement I've heard lately, which is saying a lot, considering all the LIES, disinfo, propaganda and distortions about Syria coming from the MSM.

Syria was invaded by a motley collection of jihadist head choppers, paid by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, armed and trained by the USA, with Israel providing medical care in Golan Heights field hospitals and for serious cases, at their ZIV medical center in Safed, Israel. The USAF also gave these thugs air support, bombing the only ones actually fighting the ISIS terrorists, the Syrians and Hezbollah.

Turkey and Jordan gave them places to hide and do some R & R, and Turkey even bought the stolen Syrian oil.

If the Syrian people were really against Assad, in the last six years of this illegal invasion, someone would of assassinated Assad, but he is more popular then ever, and that's what get hasbara trolls all upset, that Israel's plan to have its GOY lackeys bust up the ME for the glory of Apartheid Israel, hasn't come to fruition.

These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.

Only in December 2016, in an interview with Matt Viser of the Boston Globe, did Kerry admit that his efforts to deal with the Russians had been thwarted by then-Defense Secretary Ashton Carter – as well as all those forces he found so difficult to align.

It took, actually, not even Syria but Ukraine to expose a complete incohesiveness of US power structure–it is literally not treaty-worthy. It can not be since itself is divided into parties with, sometimes, diametrically opposite views (and objectives). It is really sad and embarrassing.

Will the forces that sabotaged previous ceasefire agreements in Syria succeed in doing so again, all the better to keep alive the “regime change” dreams of the neoconservatives and liberal interventionists?

The majority of Syrians wanted rid of Assad and that was why there was an uprising. The US under Obama didn't back it or take out Assad's regieme with one big air strike, so the Russians came in, and that is why the majority of Syrians have been defeated in their own country. Assad could not win a free election and everyone knows it.

Today was yet another corporate America Trump defamation day. Trump’s son admitted that last year the Russians gave him evidence that H. Clinton did corrupt deals in Russia. What were these deals? No one cares! It does not matter, we all know she is corrupt. Clinton is not open for attack! The Trumpers committed treason by simply accepting such evidence! Impeach!

I watched part of Oliver Stone’s interview. The reason Snowden remains in Russia is because the USA refuses to sign an extradition treaty with Russia. There are several Russians living in the USA wanted for looting large sums in Russia, and Putin wants justice, but they are exempt, like Hillary. Read about her Russian Uranium kickback deal, its on-line, but of no interest to our corporate media.

Will the forces that sabotaged previous ceasefire agreements in Syria succeed in doing so again, all the better to keep alive the “regime change” dreams of the neoconservatives and liberal interventionists?

The majority of Syrians wanted rid of Assad and that was why there was an uprising. The US under Obama didn't back it or take out Assad's regieme with one big air strike, so the Russians came in, and that is why the majority of Syrians have been defeated in their own country. Assad could not win a free election and everyone knows it.

The majority of Syrians wanted rid of Assad and that was why there was an uprising.

On which planet do you live? What a stupid statement. Stop listening to Israel and Israel controlled US media. What do you call a free election? Is it the one in which your candidate wins? Obviously, according to you and the democrats, the 2016 US election was not free either.

If the majority of Syrian wanted Assad out, why didn’t they help the US/Israel/Saudi Arabia/Qatar/UAE/Kuwait/Bahrain/UK/European Union/ Turkey/Egypt coalition forces.

Will the forces that sabotaged previous ceasefire agreements in Syria succeed in doing so again, all the better to keep alive the “regime change” dreams of the neoconservatives and liberal interventionists?

The majority of Syrians wanted rid of Assad and that was why there was an uprising. The US under Obama didn't back it or take out Assad's regieme with one big air strike, so the Russians came in, and that is why the majority of Syrians have been defeated in their own country. Assad could not win a free election and everyone knows it.

One loses patience with politeness. Only good thing, Johann Ricke can also be filed as asshat/troll.

Will the forces that sabotaged previous ceasefire agreements in Syria succeed in doing so again, all the better to keep alive the “regime change” dreams of the neoconservatives and liberal interventionists?

The majority of Syrians wanted rid of Assad and that was why there was an uprising. The US under Obama didn't back it or take out Assad's regieme with one big air strike, so the Russians came in, and that is why the majority of Syrians have been defeated in their own country. Assad could not win a free election and everyone knows it.

” Assad could not win a free election and everyone knows it. ”

Just as everyone knows that Russia won the election for Trump as enunciated by the Israeli Ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley.

Sean, that is pure nonsense. America wanted regime change from the get-go. Rebels in Syria got huge amounts of weapons courtesy of America and its allies. John McCain pleaded for rebels to get weapons and support. The result was Al Qaida using American TOW missiles.

American support is air support, that is what overthrew Qaddafi in Libya. I hate to tell you this but the Syrian uprising was one of number in what is called the Arab Spring. They included the Egyptian revolution headed by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Badie. Egypt is just to big to be manipulated in the way you say Arab uprisings necessarily are, so some of the rebellions were certainly genuine.

Arabs are capable of overthrowing their own unpopular governments but not if the government has Russian air support. The US could have overthrown Assad with one air raid so it is silly to say they are behind the rebellions; they would not have have allowed them to be crushed by Russia that was the case. Obama just did not want to take out Assad's then wobbling regieme, although he got very bad advice if, as seems likely no one warned him that Russia would see the US chickening out as an opportunity to send an expeditionary force.

Obama staying out of foreign military adventures went along with him opening the doors to immigration. I really don't care who runs Syria, but I think people here need some reality therapy about the priorities for the West being secure borders for the West.

For those who have been wondering where to find all the “democracy” the USA crows about, Mr McGovern has supplied the answer. It has all migrated to Washington DC, where the federal government is now operated on a “democratic” basis. Gone are the 18th-century privileges of such jumped-up officials as the President. Instead, employees of the government act and speak as the consensus among them demands. And, since most of them are either neocons or work for neocons, their consensus is a neocon one.

Of course, it’s a shame that the actual citizens of the USA have lost all traces of their own democracy. Vote as they may, they have absolutely no control or even influence over the consensual apparatchiks of Washington DC.

Will the forces that sabotaged previous ceasefire agreements in Syria succeed in doing so again, all the better to keep alive the “regime change” dreams of the neoconservatives and liberal interventionists?

The majority of Syrians wanted rid of Assad and that was why there was an uprising. The US under Obama didn't back it or take out Assad's regieme with one big air strike, so the Russians came in, and that is why the majority of Syrians have been defeated in their own country. Assad could not win a free election and everyone knows it.

Author’s Note and Update This article was first published by Global Research in October 2, 2016. In relation to the tragic events in Manchester, it is important that Western public opinion be informed regarding the unspoken relationship between Western governments and the ISIS.

That Ashton Carter could simply sabotage an agreement made by his own president is outrageous. On whose behalf do he and others like him actually work for? Is it good for the American people? How deep does this ‘deep state’ go anyway? Unfortunately the US has made itself an incoherent negotiating party. From the outside the US is best understood as a predatory expansionist power that gulps down different parts of the world when the opportunity is there due to weakness and vulnerability. Only when faced with sufficient force as in Korea and Vietnam will the US back off. The US operates on the principle of might makes right, the strong falling upon the weak. That’s it in a nutshell. Those wishing to remain independent and avoid American vassalage must have their porcupine quills out. It’s the lineup of forces that determines American action.

"That Ashton Carter could simply sabotage an agreement made by his own president is outrageous. On whose behalf do he and others like him actually work for?"

Very good points. Just who ARE at the top of this pyramid? Somebody or bodies is pulling these levers. Powerful people to flagrantly undermine the Secretary of State I would think. Worth investigation and an article I would have thought.
The phrse "deep state" just won't do.

Sean, that is pure nonsense. America wanted regime change from the get-go. Rebels in Syria got huge amounts of weapons courtesy of America and its allies. John McCain pleaded for rebels to get weapons and support. The result was Al Qaida using American TOW missiles.

American support is air support, that is what overthrew Qaddafi in Libya. I hate to tell you this but the Syrian uprising was one of number in what is called the Arab Spring. They included the Egyptian revolution headed by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Badie. Egypt is just to big to be manipulated in the way you say Arab uprisings necessarily are, so some of the rebellions were certainly genuine.

Arabs are capable of overthrowing their own unpopular governments but not if the government has Russian air support. The US could have overthrown Assad with one air raid so it is silly to say they are behind the rebellions; they would not have have allowed them to be crushed by Russia that was the case. Obama just did not want to take out Assad’s then wobbling regieme, although he got very bad advice if, as seems likely no one warned him that Russia would see the US chickening out as an opportunity to send an expeditionary force.

Obama staying out of foreign military adventures went along with him opening the doors to immigration. I really don’t care who runs Syria, but I think people here need some reality therapy about the priorities for the West being secure borders for the West.

" The Americans could have overthrown Assad with one air raid..."
The only way this could happen is if there was a nuclear attack on Syria by the US. If there was, Russian retaliation would not long be delayed. And none of us would be using this advanced piece of electronic communication.
Some people think you are ignorant or a troll. No, you are a thoroughly EVIL BASTARD.

American support is air support, that is what overthrew Qaddafi in Libya. I hate to tell you this but the Syrian uprising was one of number in what is called the Arab Spring. They included the Egyptian revolution headed by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Badie. Egypt is just to big to be manipulated in the way you say Arab uprisings necessarily are, so some of the rebellions were certainly genuine.

Arabs are capable of overthrowing their own unpopular governments but not if the government has Russian air support. The US could have overthrown Assad with one air raid so it is silly to say they are behind the rebellions; they would not have have allowed them to be crushed by Russia that was the case. Obama just did not want to take out Assad's then wobbling regieme, although he got very bad advice if, as seems likely no one warned him that Russia would see the US chickening out as an opportunity to send an expeditionary force.

Obama staying out of foreign military adventures went along with him opening the doors to immigration. I really don't care who runs Syria, but I think people here need some reality therapy about the priorities for the West being secure borders for the West.

You are a pathetic LIAR, Sean.

You have been trolling about Syria here at Unz for years now.

Anybody with half a brain has figured you out already.

Now go back to watching the white helmets propaganda flick.

P.S. and yes, israeli, you do care who runs Syria. Sorry to inform u the zionist inspired regime change operation has failed.

American support is air support, that is what overthrew Qaddafi in Libya. I hate to tell you this but the Syrian uprising was one of number in what is called the Arab Spring. They included the Egyptian revolution headed by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Badie. Egypt is just to big to be manipulated in the way you say Arab uprisings necessarily are, so some of the rebellions were certainly genuine.

Arabs are capable of overthrowing their own unpopular governments but not if the government has Russian air support. The US could have overthrown Assad with one air raid so it is silly to say they are behind the rebellions; they would not have have allowed them to be crushed by Russia that was the case. Obama just did not want to take out Assad's then wobbling regieme, although he got very bad advice if, as seems likely no one warned him that Russia would see the US chickening out as an opportunity to send an expeditionary force.

Obama staying out of foreign military adventures went along with him opening the doors to immigration. I really don't care who runs Syria, but I think people here need some reality therapy about the priorities for the West being secure borders for the West.

” The Americans could have overthrown Assad with one air raid…”
The only way this could happen is if there was a nuclear attack on Syria by the US. If there was, Russian retaliation would not long be delayed. And none of us would be using this advanced piece of electronic communication.
Some people think you are ignorant or a troll. No, you are a thoroughly EVIL BASTARD.

Israel really needs more Arab lands like a back door in the cranium. What they do need is to get rid of the West Bank Arabs. That is the only problem they have left. Iran is no threat to Israeli the hard choice of withdrawal from the occupied territories or expelling Palestinians from the Occupied Territories a problem that the US is the enemy of Israel on. Bipartisan official long-standing policy of America is for a two state solution.

It was mainly the puny French Air force that overthrew Qaddafi. The view from the then Martin Dempsey-led joint chiefs was that the Cold War perspective was outdated if the US air force was unleashed it could cause the collapse of Assad's regieme in a few days.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military [A] highly classified assessment, put together by the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, then led by General Martin Dempsey, forecast that the fall of the Assad regime would lead to chaos and, potentially, to Syria’s takeover by jihadi extremists, much as was then happening in Libya. A former senior adviser to the Joint Chiefs told me that the document was an ‘all-source’ appraisal, drawing on information from signals, satellite and human intelligence, and took a dim view of the Obama administration’s insistence on continuing to finance and arm the so-called moderate rebel groups. By then, the CIA had been conspiring for more than a year with allies in the UK, Saudi Arabia and Qatar to ship guns and goods – to be used for the overthrow of Assad – from Libya, via Turkey, into Syria. The new intelligence estimate singled out Turkey as a major impediment to Obama’s Syria policy. The document showed, the adviser said, ‘that what was started as a covert US programme to arm and support the moderate rebels fighting Assad had been co-opted by Turkey, and had morphed into an across-the-board technical, arms and logistical programme for all of the opposition, including Jabhat al-Nusra and Islamic State. The so-called moderates had evaporated and the Free Syrian Army was a rump group stationed at an airbase in Turkey.’ The assessment was bleak: there was no viable ‘moderate’ opposition to Assad...

But Dempsey opposed doing that. Dempsey thought the Russian backed Assad but so what because the cold was was over. Dempsey never apparently considered that the Russians would be emboldened by Obama failing to order an attack on Assad that they would actually go into Syria and destroy the rebel forces themselves--thus humiliating America. Which is what is happening.

It will be necessary to do something dramatic to regain international prestige and that will focus political resources and attention away from Trump's domestic agenda . Just as in the N.Korean situation the US's international concerns allowed economic rapist China to roll Trump.All this could have been avoided if Assad had been blasted- even a little bit.

That Ashton Carter could simply sabotage an agreement made by his own president is outrageous. On whose behalf do he and others like him actually work for? Is it good for the American people? How deep does this 'deep state' go anyway? Unfortunately the US has made itself an incoherent negotiating party. From the outside the US is best understood as a predatory expansionist power that gulps down different parts of the world when the opportunity is there due to weakness and vulnerability. Only when faced with sufficient force as in Korea and Vietnam will the US back off. The US operates on the principle of might makes right, the strong falling upon the weak. That's it in a nutshell. Those wishing to remain independent and avoid American vassalage must have their porcupine quills out. It's the lineup of forces that determines American action.

“That Ashton Carter could simply sabotage an agreement made by his own president is outrageous. On whose behalf do he and others like him actually work for?”

Very good points. Just who ARE at the top of this pyramid? Somebody or bodies is pulling these levers. Powerful people to flagrantly undermine the Secretary of State I would think. Worth investigation and an article I would have thought.
The phrse “deep state” just won’t do.

Will the forces that sabotaged previous ceasefire agreements in Syria succeed in doing so again, all the better to keep alive the “regime change” dreams of the neoconservatives and liberal interventionists?

The majority of Syrians wanted rid of Assad and that was why there was an uprising. The US under Obama didn't back it or take out Assad's regieme with one big air strike, so the Russians came in, and that is why the majority of Syrians have been defeated in their own country. Assad could not win a free election and everyone knows it.

" The Americans could have overthrown Assad with one air raid..."
The only way this could happen is if there was a nuclear attack on Syria by the US. If there was, Russian retaliation would not long be delayed. And none of us would be using this advanced piece of electronic communication.
Some people think you are ignorant or a troll. No, you are a thoroughly EVIL BASTARD.

Israel really needs more Arab lands like a back door in the cranium. What they do need is to get rid of the West Bank Arabs. That is the only problem they have left. Iran is no threat to Israeli the hard choice of withdrawal from the occupied territories or expelling Palestinians from the Occupied Territories a problem that the US is the enemy of Israel on. Bipartisan official long-standing policy of America is for a two state solution.

It was mainly the puny French Air force that overthrew Qaddafi. The view from the then Martin Dempsey-led joint chiefs was that the Cold War perspective was outdated if the US air force was unleashed it could cause the collapse of Assad’s regieme in a few days.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military [A] highly classified assessment, put together by the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, then led by General Martin Dempsey, forecast that the fall of the Assad regime would lead to chaos and, potentially, to Syria’s takeover by jihadi extremists, much as was then happening in Libya. A former senior adviser to the Joint Chiefs told me that the document was an ‘all-source’ appraisal, drawing on information from signals, satellite and human intelligence, and took a dim view of the Obama administration’s insistence on continuing to finance and arm the so-called moderate rebel groups. By then, the CIA had been conspiring for more than a year with allies in the UK, Saudi Arabia and Qatar to ship guns and goods – to be used for the overthrow of Assad – from Libya, via Turkey, into Syria. The new intelligence estimate singled out Turkey as a major impediment to Obama’s Syria policy. The document showed, the adviser said, ‘that what was started as a covert US programme to arm and support the moderate rebels fighting Assad had been co-opted by Turkey, and had morphed into an across-the-board technical, arms and logistical programme for all of the opposition, including Jabhat al-Nusra and Islamic State. The so-called moderates had evaporated and the Free Syrian Army was a rump group stationed at an airbase in Turkey.’ The assessment was bleak: there was no viable ‘moderate’ opposition to Assad…

But Dempsey opposed doing that. Dempsey thought the Russian backed Assad but so what because the cold was was over. Dempsey never apparently considered that the Russians would be emboldened by Obama failing to order an attack on Assad that they would actually go into Syria and destroy the rebel forces themselves–thus humiliating America. Which is what is happening.

It will be necessary to do something dramatic to regain international prestige and that will focus political resources and attention away from Trump’s domestic agenda . Just as in the N.Korean situation the US’s international concerns allowed economic rapist China to roll Trump.All this could have been avoided if Assad had been blasted- even a little bit.

The question is not what it needs. The question is what it lusts after, and that’s whatever it thinks it can steal.

It will be necessary to do something dramatic to regain international prestige and that will focus political resources and attention away from Trump’s domestic agenda.

No shit, Sherlock! Understatement of the thread, maybe the year. Actually,
the US’ “international prestige” has been reduced to nil. It is now a question of how deeply into “pariah state” status it falls before it either collapses or mends its ways. The way to do the latter is by focussing all of its “political resources and attention” on the domestic agenda. Americans do “international” rather poorly. When they can’t just “blast” somebody, they’re like a fish on the dock.

All this could have been avoided if Assad had been blasted- even a little bit.

Or, if he and the Syrian people were left to live their lives in peace. Novel solution, no? Whoddathunkit?

Obviously long adrift from its moorings, what a grotesquely distorted logic comes from your brain. The psychopathology of the trailer-park based warmonger-philosopher is an astonishing thing to behold. There, but for the grace of God, goes everyone else.

What you’re saying is that if the US Secretary of Defense, the CIA or any one of many other US Government agencies decides, quite independently, to commit war crimes, breach the solemn undertakings of the US Secretary of State, or refuse the orders of the Commander in Chief, they just do it.

What kind of government is that?

What kind of President would stand for that?

What kind of a super power is the United States?

Or is the propagation of the belief in the power of the “deep state” merely a cloak to conceal the mendacity of the US government in its dealings with the world and with the American public?

Does everyone simply agree that if the Secretary of Defense the head of some obscure division at the CIA decides to launch an attack in Syria, or a fake gassing or whatever that totally destroys the position of the President, there are no consequences, the President acquiesces, that the Deep State trumps Trump.

Will the forces that sabotaged previous ceasefire agreements in Syria succeed in doing so again, all the better to keep alive the “regime change” dreams of the neoconservatives and liberal interventionists?

The majority of Syrians wanted rid of Assad and that was why there was an uprising. The US under Obama didn't back it or take out Assad's regieme with one big air strike, so the Russians came in, and that is why the majority of Syrians have been defeated in their own country. Assad could not win a free election and everyone knows it.

That is the most ludicrous statement I’ve heard lately, which is saying a lot, considering all the LIES, disinfo, propaganda and distortions about Syria coming from the MSM.

Syria was invaded by a motley collection of jihadist head choppers, paid by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, armed and trained by the USA, with Israel providing medical care in Golan Heights field hospitals and for serious cases, at their ZIV medical center in Safed, Israel. The USAF also gave these thugs air support, bombing the only ones actually fighting the ISIS terrorists, the Syrians and Hezbollah.

Turkey and Jordan gave them places to hide and do some R & R, and Turkey even bought the stolen Syrian oil.

If the Syrian people were really against Assad, in the last six years of this illegal invasion, someone would of assassinated Assad, but he is more popular then ever, and that’s what get hasbara trolls all upset, that Israel’s plan to have its GOY lackeys bust up the ME for the glory of Apartheid Israel, hasn’t come to fruition.

What you're saying is that if the US Secretary of Defense, the CIA or any one of many other US Government agencies decides, quite independently, to commit war crimes, breach the solemn undertakings of the US Secretary of State, or refuse the orders of the Commander in Chief, they just do it.

What kind of government is that?

What kind of President would stand for that?

What kind of a super power is the United States?

Or is the propagation of the belief in the power of the "deep state" merely a cloak to conceal the mendacity of the US government in its dealings with the world and with the American public?

Come on somebody!

Does everyone simply agree that if the Secretary of Defense the head of some obscure division at the CIA decides to launch an attack in Syria, or a fake gassing or whatever that totally destroys the position of the President, there are no consequences, the President acquiesces, that the Deep State trumps Trump.

Not so bizarre. I'm reminded of the time Kerry went to Sochi with 15 of his top State Dept officials for intensive meetings with Lavrov & Putin lasting 2 days (iirc). He made public statements regarding the agreements reached at the concluding press briefing, with Lavrov at his side only to have those statements pertaining to Ukraine diametrically contradicted by Victoria Nuland the very next day in Kiev.

No doubt, every foreign affairs office around the world took note. In a normal State Dept, with a normal Secretary/Minister, in a normal country, Nuland would have been summarily dismissed, her office cleared out, and her belongings would have been waiting at the Human Resources Dept for her return. One can imagine how a Lavrov would have reacted. Kerry, afaik, never said a word about it. From that point on, his credibility as Sec. of State was utterly destroyed. She continued to perform her duties as if nothing happened until Trump threw her out. I'm sure every foreign affairs office took note of that too, and adjusted accordingly.

Anyhow, however "bizarre" it may appear, it seems to me that the waywardness of the US' foreign policy indicates that, in fact, no one is in charge. The USM, the CIA, NSA, FBI, DEA etc etc and their various hangers-on in 1000 think-tanks have grown far beyond anyone's ability to control them. Furthermore, they've all been thoroughly infiltrated by special interests that are not necessarily concerned about anything but the interests they represent.At the best of times, US policy is the sum vector of all the vectors along which these various interests are pulling. Occasionally, an outlier vector pops up as one of those particularly powerful interests makes a drastic move when their vector looks like it's hitting an endstop. They've simply grown so large that they've come, collectively to render impotent the elected part of the government. The same can be said about domestic policy.

The situation has, of course, been exacerbated by 24 consecutive yrs of weak, vacillating Presidents. During that time the tails multiplied and grew large while the dog shrank. They vie with each other to see who can wag him the most. So much so that the POTUS can now do little but say Phuck It! and go golfing where the tails are smaller and more manageable.

Does everyone simply agree that if the Secretary of Defense the head of some obscure division at the CIA decides to launch an attack in Syria, or a fake gassing or whatever that totally destroys the position of the President, there are no consequences, the President acquiesces, that the Deep State trumps Trump.

The idea is totally bizarre.

The idea is totally bizarre.

Not so bizarre. I’m reminded of the time Kerry went to Sochi with 15 of his top State Dept officials for intensive meetings with Lavrov & Putin lasting 2 days (iirc). He made public statements regarding the agreements reached at the concluding press briefing, with Lavrov at his side only to have those statements pertaining to Ukraine diametrically contradicted by Victoria Nuland the very next day in Kiev.

No doubt, every foreign affairs office around the world took note. In a normal State Dept, with a normal Secretary/Minister, in a normal country, Nuland would have been summarily dismissed, her office cleared out, and her belongings would have been waiting at the Human Resources Dept for her return.
One can imagine how a Lavrov would have reacted. Kerry, afaik, never said a word about it. From that point on, his credibility as Sec. of State was utterly destroyed. She continued to perform her duties as if nothing happened until Trump threw her out.
I’m sure every foreign affairs office took note of that too, and adjusted accordingly.

Anyhow, however “bizarre” it may appear, it seems to me that the waywardness of the US’ foreign policy indicates that, in fact, no one is in charge. The USM, the CIA, NSA, FBI, DEA etc etc and their various hangers-on in 1000 think-tanks have grown far beyond anyone’s ability to control them. Furthermore, they’ve all been thoroughly infiltrated by special interests that are not necessarily concerned about anything but the interests they represent.
At the best of times, US policy is the sum vector of all the vectors along which these various interests are pulling. Occasionally, an outlier vector pops up as one of those particularly powerful interests makes a drastic move when their vector looks like it’s hitting an endstop. They’ve simply grown so large that they’ve come, collectively to render impotent the elected part of the government.
The same can be said about domestic policy.

The situation has, of course, been exacerbated by 24 consecutive yrs of weak, vacillating Presidents. During that time the tails multiplied and grew large while the dog shrank. They vie with each other to see who can wag him the most. So much so that the POTUS can now do little but say Phuck It! and go golfing where the tails are smaller and more manageable.

With reference to Kerry being totally undermined on Ukraine by his nominal subordinate Victoria Nuland, you say:

No doubt, every foreign affairs office around the world took note. In a normal State Dept, with a normal Secretary/Minister, in a normal country, Nuland would have been summarily dismissed, her office cleared out, and her belongings would have been waiting at the Human Resources Dept for her return.

So does Kerry have no balls, no pride, no shame? And what of Obama, did he direct Kerry's humiliation, or is he a castrate too, who was subordinate to a hidden hand directing Victoria Nuland?

And now we see the same game played out under Trump over the Syrian toxic gas incident. A US agreement with Russia trashed by some bullshit fake use of WMD.

Despite Trump's public assurance of his testicular integrity, agreements of the US Secretary of state were trashed by a hidden hand with the apparent acquiescence of the President.

Nixon described America as a "pitiful helpless giant." Today America looks like a pitiful helpless pawn of concealed forces and under the titular rule of men without principles or shame. The US Government, it seems, is merely a charade that conceals forces of which the mass of the American public have no knowledge whatever. Trump, by that interpretation, is merely the official chief illusionist.

Not so bizarre. I'm reminded of the time Kerry went to Sochi with 15 of his top State Dept officials for intensive meetings with Lavrov & Putin lasting 2 days (iirc). He made public statements regarding the agreements reached at the concluding press briefing, with Lavrov at his side only to have those statements pertaining to Ukraine diametrically contradicted by Victoria Nuland the very next day in Kiev.

No doubt, every foreign affairs office around the world took note. In a normal State Dept, with a normal Secretary/Minister, in a normal country, Nuland would have been summarily dismissed, her office cleared out, and her belongings would have been waiting at the Human Resources Dept for her return. One can imagine how a Lavrov would have reacted. Kerry, afaik, never said a word about it. From that point on, his credibility as Sec. of State was utterly destroyed. She continued to perform her duties as if nothing happened until Trump threw her out. I'm sure every foreign affairs office took note of that too, and adjusted accordingly.

Anyhow, however "bizarre" it may appear, it seems to me that the waywardness of the US' foreign policy indicates that, in fact, no one is in charge. The USM, the CIA, NSA, FBI, DEA etc etc and their various hangers-on in 1000 think-tanks have grown far beyond anyone's ability to control them. Furthermore, they've all been thoroughly infiltrated by special interests that are not necessarily concerned about anything but the interests they represent.At the best of times, US policy is the sum vector of all the vectors along which these various interests are pulling. Occasionally, an outlier vector pops up as one of those particularly powerful interests makes a drastic move when their vector looks like it's hitting an endstop. They've simply grown so large that they've come, collectively to render impotent the elected part of the government. The same can be said about domestic policy.

The situation has, of course, been exacerbated by 24 consecutive yrs of weak, vacillating Presidents. During that time the tails multiplied and grew large while the dog shrank. They vie with each other to see who can wag him the most. So much so that the POTUS can now do little but say Phuck It! and go golfing where the tails are smaller and more manageable.

Thanks for your comment.

With reference to Kerry being totally undermined on Ukraine by his nominal subordinate Victoria Nuland, you say:

No doubt, every foreign affairs office around the world took note. In a normal State Dept, with a normal Secretary/Minister, in a normal country, Nuland would have been summarily dismissed, her office cleared out, and her belongings would have been waiting at the Human Resources Dept for her return.

So does Kerry have no balls, no pride, no shame? And what of Obama, did he direct Kerry’s humiliation, or is he a castrate too, who was subordinate to a hidden hand directing Victoria Nuland?

And now we see the same game played out under Trump over the Syrian toxic gas incident. A US agreement with Russia trashed by some bullshit fake use of WMD.

Despite Trump’s public assurance of his testicular integrity, agreements of the US Secretary of state were trashed by a hidden hand with the apparent acquiescence of the President.

Nixon described America as a “pitiful helpless giant.” Today America looks like a pitiful helpless pawn of concealed forces and under the titular rule of men without principles or shame. The US Government, it seems, is merely a charade that conceals forces of which the mass of the American public have no knowledge whatever. Trump, by that interpretation, is merely the official chief illusionist.

... the tremendous amounts of fuel that was dumped on the building, and sixteen hundred degrees temperature, I guess that was more than anything could take. No matter what.

CIA Director CIA Director William O Casey may not have said:

We’ll Know Our Disinformation Program Is Complete When Everything the American Public Believes Is False.

but he might have.

Some people think that we live, not in a real universe, but in a simulation. That could certainly be how it is with the American public. And who better to spread the illusion over at Unz.com than a man from the CIA?

The fact is, the American public has mostly had it with imperialistic wars, so now they have Presidents who talk peace while the Pentagon and State Department, apparently beyond Presidential control, continues the terrorist infiltration and overt wars for global empire.

With reference to Kerry being totally undermined on Ukraine by his nominal subordinate Victoria Nuland, you say:

No doubt, every foreign affairs office around the world took note. In a normal State Dept, with a normal Secretary/Minister, in a normal country, Nuland would have been summarily dismissed, her office cleared out, and her belongings would have been waiting at the Human Resources Dept for her return.

So does Kerry have no balls, no pride, no shame? And what of Obama, did he direct Kerry's humiliation, or is he a castrate too, who was subordinate to a hidden hand directing Victoria Nuland?

And now we see the same game played out under Trump over the Syrian toxic gas incident. A US agreement with Russia trashed by some bullshit fake use of WMD.

Despite Trump's public assurance of his testicular integrity, agreements of the US Secretary of state were trashed by a hidden hand with the apparent acquiescence of the President.

Nixon described America as a "pitiful helpless giant." Today America looks like a pitiful helpless pawn of concealed forces and under the titular rule of men without principles or shame. The US Government, it seems, is merely a charade that conceals forces of which the mass of the American public have no knowledge whatever. Trump, by that interpretation, is merely the official chief illusionist.

… the tremendous amounts of fuel that was dumped on the building, and sixteen hundred degrees temperature, I guess that was more than anything could take. No matter what.

CIA Director CIA Director William O Casey may not have said:

We’ll Know Our Disinformation Program Is Complete When Everything the American Public Believes Is False.

but he might have.

Some people think that we live, not in a real universe, but in a simulation. That could certainly be how it is with the American public. And who better to spread the illusion over at Unz.com than a man from the CIA?

The fact is, the American public has mostly had it with imperialistic wars, so now they have Presidents who talk peace while the Pentagon and State Department, apparently beyond Presidential control, continues the terrorist infiltration and overt wars for global empire.

But nobody at unz.com wants to talk about it. The US, a country run by spooks, financiers and agents of foreign powers who hold the elected representatives of the people in contempt, is less free, less democratic than China or Peru, the people duped by a ridiculous democratic charade, so fake that even the outcome of a vote is unknown within a margin for manipulation of millions.

But when a top guy from the CIA tells us how it is, no one at Unz.com wants to talk about it. Instead, what we have is a bunch of pseudonomous nobodies exchanging pointless insults. Pathetic.

America is a fat carcass is being torn apart by hyenas while the people remain almost totally distracted by false narratives from BS about Freedom and Democracy to the fake terrorism of 9/11 and much more at home to the US taxpayer-funded terrorism abroad.

... the tremendous amounts of fuel that was dumped on the building, and sixteen hundred degrees temperature, I guess that was more than anything could take. No matter what.

CIA Director CIA Director William O Casey may not have said:

We’ll Know Our Disinformation Program Is Complete When Everything the American Public Believes Is False.

but he might have.

Some people think that we live, not in a real universe, but in a simulation. That could certainly be how it is with the American public. And who better to spread the illusion over at Unz.com than a man from the CIA?

The fact is, the American public has mostly had it with imperialistic wars, so now they have Presidents who talk peace while the Pentagon and State Department, apparently beyond Presidential control, continues the terrorist infiltration and overt wars for global empire.

What a sordid end to a formerly great nation.

What a sordid end to a formerly great nation.

But nobody at unz.com wants to talk about it. The US, a country run by spooks, financiers and agents of foreign powers who hold the elected representatives of the people in contempt, is less free, less democratic than China or Peru, the people duped by a ridiculous democratic charade, so fake that even the outcome of a vote is unknown within a margin for manipulation of millions.

But when a top guy from the CIA tells us how it is, no one at Unz.com wants to talk about it. Instead, what we have is a bunch of pseudonomous nobodies exchanging pointless insults. Pathetic.

America is a fat carcass is being torn apart by hyenas while the people remain almost totally distracted by false narratives from BS about Freedom and Democracy to the fake terrorism of 9/11 and much more at home to the US taxpayer-funded terrorism abroad.

That's a good point about how it seems like there's less interest in the post, but I think it is because there is inherent respect for the author. As well there is less to say f0r the average blogger who has little concrete to add to real serious issues. But also is like when children get quiet when an adult enters a room too, there's better places to play silly games and so on.

As to the Zuke for 2020, good! that will keep him there in the spotlight and make him earn his keep for once. He has a free reign anyway, I mean! The day is past for yearning for anything like a real presidential president. The next time you get a real Leader, look out! Just keep it like it is, the progression of things and events is trending worse, better to put the breaks on where possible, another entertaining celebrity wouldn't be too bad. The Zuke could do it. Hell he invented the internet just like Senater Gore did, that's always a good beromerter.

America is a fat carcass is being torn apart by hyenas while the people remain almost totally distracted by false narratives from BS about Freedom and Democracy...

America's democracy may not be a carcass yet, but it's getting there quickly and the hyenas are positioning themselves for the coming competition for the choicest bits. The bolder ones are taking bites of the still living polity. Empires look like that as they enter their decline and fall. Power structures crack and deconsolidate. The centre cannot hold, and competing power centres are emboldened and rise. Twas ever thus.

But nobody at unz.com wants to talk about it.

You know, it's like cancer. If you've got it, and everyone knows you've got it, only the most morbid would want to chat about its progress at length. Unz readers, I think, know America's got the cancer. There's not much enthusiasm for debating yet another confirming diagnosis, however authoritative.When the hope of a cure showed up on the horizon (Trump) Unz readers took to their keyboards with gusto to debate its prospects. That hope is fading, and nobody wants to talk about fading hopes. Everybody knows it will now take a miracle.

But nobody at unz.com wants to talk about it. The US, a country run by spooks, financiers and agents of foreign powers who hold the elected representatives of the people in contempt, is less free, less democratic than China or Peru, the people duped by a ridiculous democratic charade, so fake that even the outcome of a vote is unknown within a margin for manipulation of millions.

But when a top guy from the CIA tells us how it is, no one at Unz.com wants to talk about it. Instead, what we have is a bunch of pseudonomous nobodies exchanging pointless insults. Pathetic.

America is a fat carcass is being torn apart by hyenas while the people remain almost totally distracted by false narratives from BS about Freedom and Democracy to the fake terrorism of 9/11 and much more at home to the US taxpayer-funded terrorism abroad.

That’s a good point about how it seems like there’s less interest in the post, but I think it is because there is inherent respect for the author. As well there is less to say f0r the average blogger who has little concrete to add to real serious issues. But also is like when children get quiet when an adult enters a room too, there’s better places to play silly games and so on.

As to the Zuke for 2020, good! that will keep him there in the spotlight and make him earn his keep for once. He has a free reign anyway, I mean! The day is past for yearning for anything like a real presidential president. The next time you get a real Leader, look out! Just keep it like it is, the progression of things and events is trending worse, better to put the breaks on where possible, another entertaining celebrity wouldn’t be too bad. The Zuke could do it. Hell he invented the internet just like Senater Gore did, that’s always a good beromerter.

But nobody at unz.com wants to talk about it. The US, a country run by spooks, financiers and agents of foreign powers who hold the elected representatives of the people in contempt, is less free, less democratic than China or Peru, the people duped by a ridiculous democratic charade, so fake that even the outcome of a vote is unknown within a margin for manipulation of millions.

But when a top guy from the CIA tells us how it is, no one at Unz.com wants to talk about it. Instead, what we have is a bunch of pseudonomous nobodies exchanging pointless insults. Pathetic.

America is a fat carcass is being torn apart by hyenas while the people remain almost totally distracted by false narratives from BS about Freedom and Democracy to the fake terrorism of 9/11 and much more at home to the US taxpayer-funded terrorism abroad.

America is a fat carcass is being torn apart by hyenas while the people remain almost totally distracted by false narratives from BS about Freedom and Democracy…

America’s democracy may not be a carcass yet, but it’s getting there quickly and the hyenas are positioning themselves for the coming competition for the choicest bits. The bolder ones are taking bites of the still living polity.
Empires look like that as they enter their decline and fall. Power structures crack and deconsolidate. The centre cannot hold, and competing power centres are emboldened and rise. Twas ever thus.

But nobody at unz.com wants to talk about it.

You know, it’s like cancer. If you’ve got it, and everyone knows you’ve got it, only the most morbid would want to chat about its progress at length. Unz readers, I think, know America’s got the cancer. There’s not much enthusiasm for debating yet another confirming diagnosis, however authoritative.
When the hope of a cure showed up on the horizon (Trump) Unz readers took to their keyboards with gusto to debate its prospects. That hope is fading, and nobody wants to talk about fading hopes.
Everybody knows it will now take a miracle.

But we are supposed, surely, to be like the doctors discussing among themselves what should be done next, now that the latest treatment, namely a dose of Trump, can be seen to have failed. This is a time for urgent debate, not regretful silence.

America is a fat carcass is being torn apart by hyenas while the people remain almost totally distracted by false narratives from BS about Freedom and Democracy...

America's democracy may not be a carcass yet, but it's getting there quickly and the hyenas are positioning themselves for the coming competition for the choicest bits. The bolder ones are taking bites of the still living polity. Empires look like that as they enter their decline and fall. Power structures crack and deconsolidate. The centre cannot hold, and competing power centres are emboldened and rise. Twas ever thus.

But nobody at unz.com wants to talk about it.

You know, it's like cancer. If you've got it, and everyone knows you've got it, only the most morbid would want to chat about its progress at length. Unz readers, I think, know America's got the cancer. There's not much enthusiasm for debating yet another confirming diagnosis, however authoritative.When the hope of a cure showed up on the horizon (Trump) Unz readers took to their keyboards with gusto to debate its prospects. That hope is fading, and nobody wants to talk about fading hopes. Everybody knows it will now take a miracle.

But we are supposed, surely, to be like the doctors discussing among themselves what should be done next, now that the latest treatment, namely a dose of Trump, can be seen to have failed. This is a time for urgent debate, not regretful silence.

I would argue that that passed months ago, and only action could now serve. Perhaps, unz readers perceive that even its time has passed. I believe it has. Momentum has gone to the dark side, and even civil action can serve as but a rearguard action.
Trump had to come into office with the Seven Samurai in tow. In the event, he came in with the Seven Dwarfs and succumbed to the Russian meddling onslaught. When he should have "raised the black flag, and commenced cutting throats", he found himself with the Seven Moles, and squandered time and resources dealing with internal squabbles. Either he had no idea what he was up against, or he thought better of his campaign rhetoric and capitulated.

Internationally, the Syrian Gambit has failed, and spectacularly so. By not conceding and withdrawing, he now owns the Kerry/Obama blunder. Every foreign affairs desk on the planet knows this.
It's game, set, match and he can now but play the spoiler, or shoot for the best 2nd or 3rd place position he can negotiate on the Imperial front, while trying to build a wall of subterfuge domestically to keep his constituency from abandoning him.

That's a good point about how it seems like there's less interest in the post, but I think it is because there is inherent respect for the author. As well there is less to say f0r the average blogger who has little concrete to add to real serious issues. But also is like when children get quiet when an adult enters a room too, there's better places to play silly games and so on.

As to the Zuke for 2020, good! that will keep him there in the spotlight and make him earn his keep for once. He has a free reign anyway, I mean! The day is past for yearning for anything like a real presidential president. The next time you get a real Leader, look out! Just keep it like it is, the progression of things and events is trending worse, better to put the breaks on where possible, another entertaining celebrity wouldn't be too bad. The Zuke could do it. Hell he invented the internet just like Senater Gore did, that's always a good beromerter.

But also is like when children get quiet when an adult enters a room

Wow, if the room falls quiet on entry of the man from the CIA, freedom of speech in the US must be approaching the Soviet level.

Ok but I didn't mean it like that. Actually, Ray isn't too much of a stiff necked ''adult'' type, he is very normally nice and friendly, and people like him, does a lot to make good sense... and to educate the peeps... Ray knows some stuff... I think he does!

[...freedom of speech in the US must be approaching the Soviet level

.

Freedom of speech! Yeah that is the greatest concept, but you just go try and do it... and see if it works out for ya?!

It's just another impossible dream idea... I mean, more and more, it isn't wise to spout off about anything that can get you in trouble... You know what?... we exercise the freedom to say stuff here on the internet... but someday, AI, will round every one of us up... for this or that...possible indiscreet.. this or that.

One book that was pretty good was a while back, Friendly Fascism B. Gross.

But we are supposed, surely, to be like the doctors discussing among themselves what should be done next, now that the latest treatment, namely a dose of Trump, can be seen to have failed. This is a time for urgent debate, not regretful silence.

This is a time for urgent debate, not regretful silence.

I would argue that that passed months ago, and only action could now serve. Perhaps, unz readers perceive that even its time has passed. I believe it has. Momentum has gone to the dark side, and even civil action can serve as but a rearguard action.
Trump had to come into office with the Seven Samurai in tow. In the event, he came in with the Seven Dwarfs and succumbed to the Russian meddling onslaught. When he should have “raised the black flag, and commenced cutting throats”, he found himself with the Seven Moles, and squandered time and resources dealing with internal squabbles. Either he had no idea what he was up against, or he thought better of his campaign rhetoric and capitulated.

Internationally, the Syrian Gambit has failed, and spectacularly so. By not conceding and withdrawing, he now owns the Kerry/Obama blunder. Every foreign affairs desk on the planet knows this.
It’s game, set, match and he can now but play the spoiler, or shoot for the best 2nd or 3rd place position he can negotiate on the Imperial front, while trying to build a wall of subterfuge domestically to keep his constituency from abandoning him.

That may be so. But it is still necessary to clarify the mind. To understand that Trump may never have been anything but a decoy to entice the increasingly sullen and resentful working class into the globalist trap. That, anyway, was my original point: that the continual defeat of first Obama and Kerry the Good, and now Trump and Tillerson the Good, is not due to weakness of the executive but merely the intended working out of policy.

Trump, it seems to me, differs from Obama chiefly in lying more outrageously and in having relieved the military of all restraint when operating in populated areas. It's bomb-the-shit-out-them time in Raqqa and wherever else there is resistance to the imperial will. Hence the widespread use of white phosphorous, anti-personnel weapons, and high explosive with the inevitable massive civilian casualties, as in the good ol' days of Dubya Bush.

I would argue that that passed months ago, and only action could now serve. Perhaps, unz readers perceive that even its time has passed. I believe it has. Momentum has gone to the dark side, and even civil action can serve as but a rearguard action.
Trump had to come into office with the Seven Samurai in tow. In the event, he came in with the Seven Dwarfs and succumbed to the Russian meddling onslaught. When he should have "raised the black flag, and commenced cutting throats", he found himself with the Seven Moles, and squandered time and resources dealing with internal squabbles. Either he had no idea what he was up against, or he thought better of his campaign rhetoric and capitulated.

Internationally, the Syrian Gambit has failed, and spectacularly so. By not conceding and withdrawing, he now owns the Kerry/Obama blunder. Every foreign affairs desk on the planet knows this.
It's game, set, match and he can now but play the spoiler, or shoot for the best 2nd or 3rd place position he can negotiate on the Imperial front, while trying to build a wall of subterfuge domestically to keep his constituency from abandoning him.

only action could now serve.

That may be so. But it is still necessary to clarify the mind. To understand that Trump may never have been anything but a decoy to entice the increasingly sullen and resentful working class into the globalist trap. That, anyway, was my original point: that the continual defeat of first Obama and Kerry the Good, and now Trump and Tillerson the Good, is not due to weakness of the executive but merely the intended working out of policy.

Trump, it seems to me, differs from Obama chiefly in lying more outrageously and in having relieved the military of all restraint when operating in populated areas. It’s bomb-the-shit-out-them time in Raqqa and wherever else there is resistance to the imperial will. Hence the widespread use of white phosphorous, anti-personnel weapons, and high explosive with the inevitable massive civilian casualties, as in the good ol’ days of Dubya Bush.

To understand that Trump may never have been anything but a decoy to entice the increasingly sullen and resentful working class into the globalist trap.

Well, now we're deep in Plato's cave, watching shadows.
How would one tell the difference between a decoy Trump, and one who simply got overwhelmed by the powers arrayed against him? Powers, moreover, that are able to make him look like a decoy if suited their purposes?
It's certainly not impossible, but it's a more dangerous, and much more complex gambit than undermining, or even destroying a "genuine" Trump. Too many wheels within wheels in the former, IMHO. That, and the fact that there's already too many scattered pieces laying about that seem to have no place in the "decoy" puzzle.
Be that as it may, I think only a 3rd party/independent candidate can do what Trump promised to do. He will need not only the Seven Samurai (Magnificent Seven for Americans) but the active support of his constituency to pull it off. That means something like a more or less permanent Million Man March on the capital both to stiffen his spine and to limit the swamp creatures' scope of action. They gotta get off the farms and out of the factories where they're effectively out of the game, and in the swamp dwellers' faces. If they don't, there'll certainly be decoys being prepared to follow Trump's failure.
That may well happen eventually, but I suspect a lot more pain, or another cathartic event like 9/11, is needed to motivate the Deplorables sufficiently.

As for

... (relieving) the military of all restraint when operating in populated areas...

I think it can easily be seen as a misdirection that yields political running room for Trump. I mean, assuming Mattis is on the same page with Trump, that from this point on, when the USM doesn't move, Trump cannot be attacked for putting undue restraints on them, or of "being soft" on ISIS/Russia/Iran, etc. The USM is sacrosanct in Washington. If they say "We can't bomb because..." nobody will call them, or Mad Dog, "Kremlin agents". Rather clever, IMHO.

Wow, if the room falls quiet on entry of the man from the CIA, freedom of speech in the US must be approaching the Soviet level.

Ok but I didn’t mean it like that. Actually, Ray isn’t too much of a stiff necked ”adult” type, he is very normally nice and friendly, and people like him, does a lot to make good sense… and to educate the peeps… Ray knows some stuff… I think he does!

[...freedom of speech in the US must be approaching the Soviet level

.

Freedom of speech! Yeah that is the greatest concept, but you just go try and do it… and see if it works out for ya?!

It’s just another impossible dream idea… I mean, more and more, it isn’t wise to spout off about anything that can get you in trouble… You know what?… we exercise the freedom to say stuff here on the internet… but someday, AI, will round every one of us up… for this or that…possible indiscreet.. this or that.

One book that was pretty good was a while back, Friendly Fascism B. Gross.

That may be so. But it is still necessary to clarify the mind. To understand that Trump may never have been anything but a decoy to entice the increasingly sullen and resentful working class into the globalist trap. That, anyway, was my original point: that the continual defeat of first Obama and Kerry the Good, and now Trump and Tillerson the Good, is not due to weakness of the executive but merely the intended working out of policy.

Trump, it seems to me, differs from Obama chiefly in lying more outrageously and in having relieved the military of all restraint when operating in populated areas. It's bomb-the-shit-out-them time in Raqqa and wherever else there is resistance to the imperial will. Hence the widespread use of white phosphorous, anti-personnel weapons, and high explosive with the inevitable massive civilian casualties, as in the good ol' days of Dubya Bush.

To understand that Trump may never have been anything but a decoy to entice the increasingly sullen and resentful working class into the globalist trap.

Well, now we’re deep in Plato’s cave, watching shadows.
How would one tell the difference between a decoy Trump, and one who simply got overwhelmed by the powers arrayed against him? Powers, moreover, that are able to make him look like a decoy if suited their purposes?
It’s certainly not impossible, but it’s a more dangerous, and much more complex gambit than undermining, or even destroying a “genuine” Trump. Too many wheels within wheels in the former, IMHO. That, and the fact that there’s already too many scattered pieces laying about that seem to have no place in the “decoy” puzzle.
Be that as it may, I think only a 3rd party/independent candidate can do what Trump promised to do. He will need not only the Seven Samurai (Magnificent Seven for Americans) but the active support of his constituency to pull it off. That means something like a more or less permanent Million Man March on the capital both to stiffen his spine and to limit the swamp creatures’ scope of action. They gotta get off the farms and out of the factories where they’re effectively out of the game, and in the swamp dwellers’ faces. If they don’t, there’ll certainly be decoys being prepared to follow Trump’s failure.
That may well happen eventually, but I suspect a lot more pain, or another cathartic event like 9/11, is needed to motivate the Deplorables sufficiently.

As for

… (relieving) the military of all restraint when operating in populated areas…

I think it can easily be seen as a misdirection that yields political running room for Trump. I mean, assuming Mattis is on the same page with Trump, that from this point on, when the USM doesn’t move, Trump cannot be attacked for putting undue restraints on them, or of “being soft” on ISIS/Russia/Iran, etc. The USM is sacrosanct in Washington. If they say “We can’t bomb because…” nobody will call them, or Mad Dog, “Kremlin agents”. Rather clever, IMHO.

Well, now we’re deep in Plato’s cave, watching shadows.
How would one tell the difference between a decoy Trump, and one who simply got overwhelmed by the powers arrayed against him? Powers, moreover, that are able to make him look like a decoy if suited their purposes?

LOL

You kidding? Like running on a platform the people want, then governing with totally different objectives is something you’ve never witnessed.

Think:

George Bush's promised "humble foreign policy."

Obarmy, the Piss Prize winner, who knocked off Gaddafi, installed Nazis in the Ukraine, and shipped a thousand tanks to Europe for the growing confrontation with Russia.

Now Trump, "wouldn't it be nice to get along with the Russians" deploys troops to Poland, etc.

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