The GOP ain't stupid. They just lined the pockets of billionaires and huge corporate donors, and gave a small tax break that helps mostly those in red states. Then they set the tax cuts for individuals to expire in 7 years, while keeping the tax cuts for those at the top. Why expire the tax cuts for the non millionaires in 7 years? Because they know they likely won't be in power at the time and they will somehow be able to blame the Democrats for the tax increase that everybody except those at the top will see. In fact, the tax rates will expire, but the deductions that most in the middle class enjoy will not return. Again, very cleaver. The billionaires will continue to enjoy their tax breaks while everyone else will get a tax increase, and they will blame it on the Democrats. Bravo!

President Trump and the Republicans deliver for The American People while The Democrats lie and cry.

I'm not a Democrat and I'm completely against this piece of poor legislation. It has elements that clearly benefit one portion of society plus will increase the deficit. Do you have any idea how long it takes to count a trillion at a buck a second?

____________________"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

Heard Corker say this morning the amount potentially added to the debt is $500 billion. The Democrats stick with the $1.5 trillion figure. I don't know who to believe on anything anymore, but even a supporter of the bill, and supposed concern for debt and deficit increases, admits that it could add to the deficit. Not surprisingly the Republicans and Democrats each favor different ways of calculating the figures to suit one's position.

Corporate tax reform if good, as long as we get the good benefits and results of such reform. Time will tell. This issue along could've garnered decent bipartisan support I imagine.

The Democrats are using an interesting, and to their credit, effective argument on this, saying that 87% of the benefits goes to the 1%...but a large component of the benefits is going to corporations not simply the often demonized and always hated 1% of wealthy individuals Democrats so rely on dragging through the mud. If we were to strip away the corporate benefits and just look at individual and married tax filers I wonder what that % comes down to?

Some have said saving $600 for somebody how earns $70,000 is "peanuts" and "not even worth it". $600 is real money. Not worth it, as opposed to continually paying $600 more every year?

I will say the corporate tax reform makes some sense. The individual cuts I think come at a curious time just because as I can remember the Bush tax cuts and the Regan tax cuts were at times the economy needed a boost. We are experiencing decent growth and low unemployment currently, so atleast compared to the other two major tax cut bills the timing on this one seems quite different. Is it possible that this bill moves us from 3% GDP growth to some higher rate? If the economy is going to grow and if businesses are going to hire more people, with historically low unemployment where are the new workers going to be found? (technically speaking about the numbers, perhaps not in reality of the actual unemployed persons which some think is quite a bit higher still)

The left simply cannot stop lying:
“Trump’s Tax Cuts only benefit his billionaire buddies and penalizes the middle class”

Utter crap.

What the left doesn’t mention in their lie is that the minimal rate decrease tax rate they use has no effect on the top earners. The rate the left screams about is on wages which is not a source of income for the top earners. Their income comes from capital gains and the tax rate on that income does not change in the Tax Cut and Jobs act.

The left also does not mention the doubling of the standard deduction and almost doubling of the child tax credit which is a huge benefit to the middle class and the poor.

What the left doesn’t mention in their lie is that the minimal rate decrease tax rate they use has no effect on the top earners. The rate the left screams about is on wages which is not a source of income for the top earners. Their income comes from capital gains and the tax rate on that income does not change in the Tax Cut and Jobs act.

The left also does not mention the doubling of the standard deduction and almost doubling of the child tax credit which is a huge benefit to the middle class and the poor.

If that is the case then why not just leave the 39.6% rate rather than reducing it to 37%? Atleast some of the optics of the plan could be argued differently then. They should've left the top rate where it was.

So much for the GOP deficit hawks. That's all we've heard for years from the GOP...especially under Obama. What about Corker and his not voting for the bill if it adds one cent. Guess he rolled over like a puppy dog.

"In an exclusive interview on Meet the Press, Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) tells Chuck Todd that if the GOP’s new tax reform plan adds a penny to the deficit he won’t support it."

The GOP talking points are supply side rehashed theory that probably won't create the anticipated growth & offsets. That's why the provision for individual taxes to go up if targets aren't met. But that's not the case for corporations.

Yes, the GOP deficit hawks went the way of GOP compassionate conservatism and the dodo bird - three entities that are now history.

Want to bet the GOP deficit hawks will make a recovery if a Democrat is elected to be prez in 2020.

What the left doesn’t mention in their lie is that the minimal rate decrease tax rate they use has no effect on the top earners. The rate the left screams about is on wages which is not a source of income for the top earners. Their income comes from capital gains and the tax rate on that income does not change in the Tax Cut and Jobs act.

The left also does not mention the doubling of the standard deduction and almost doubling of the child tax credit which is a huge benefit to the middle class and the poor.

I guess Republicans only care about debt and deficit when they are talking about entitlements?

Honestly I don't think most Republicans care about debt and deficit anyway...as long as they are the ones in power.

It should matter though, it matters to me, it makes sense...don't spend more than you receive.

That's just the thing with the projections. I don't know who to believe or trust on it. And really there are so many variables that are unpredictable and can change to make all the projections unreliable.

But one thing is for sure I think, raising taxes doesn't guarantee more tax revenue and cutting taxes doesn't guarantee less tax revenue. There is something to the behavior of the tax payer in light of having to tax plan to avoid paying higher taxes or being able to spend or invest more in light of less tax liability. It boils down to what the government decides (or is obligated) to spend the money on - so whatever the incoming tax receipts are is what should dictate what they spend.

quote:I guess Republicans only care about debt and deficit when they are talking about entitlements?

Honestly I don't think most Republicans care about debt and deficit anyway...as long as they are the ones in power.

It should matter though, it matters to me, it makes sense...don't spend more than you receive.

That's just the thing with the projections. I don't know who to believe or trust on it. And really there are so many variables that are unpredictable and can change to make all the projections unreliable.

But one thing is for sure I think, raising taxes doesn't guarantee more tax revenue and cutting taxes doesn't guarantee less tax revenue. There is something to the behavior of the tax payer in light of having to tax plan to avoid paying higher taxes or being able to spend or invest more in light of less tax liability. It boils down to what the government decides (or is obligated) to spend the money on - so whatever the incoming tax receipts are is what should dictate what they spend.

Trickle down has never worked before. There is no reason to think it will work now. Republican projections are based on the rosy theory that by getting tax breaks, they will create jobs. BS. Jobs are created when the consumers are spending. Consumers spend when they have money. The paltry tax breaks consumers are getting will not help that much. When those tax breaks expire, a recession is sure to follow.

President Trump and the Republicans deliver for The American People while The Democrats lie and cry.

26% of Americans approve of it!, theres a real victory

Only 18% approved of President Reagan's 1986 tax cut and the result was over a decade of strong economic growth and millions of new jobs.

Allow me take on of your favorite quotes, “Wrong. try again son,”
if you’re too stupid to understand that these are the kind of actions that led to the massive economic crash 10 years ago...then good god I really want whatever drugs you take. I enjoy escaping reality too!

Trickle down has never worked before. There is no reason to think it will work now. Republican projections are based on the rosy theory that by getting tax breaks, they will create jobs. BS. Jobs are created when the consumers are spending. Consumers spend when they have money. The paltry tax breaks consumers are getting will not help that much. When those tax breaks expire, a recession is sure to follow.

The individual cuts expire in 2025. Congress could extend or renew them depending on who's in power.

But so you are saying that recession is sure to follow in 2025...is that because taxes will increase and then are you saying higher taxes = recession. I don't think you are, but see how that sounds?

Give me 8 years of continued economic growth, if you are saying we have 8 more years until a recession I'll be very very very happy with that. Chances are we get a dip, contraction, recession to some degree or another before that. Our current period of expansion started in 2009. If we run until 2025 that is going to be a hell of a run! The current period we are in is about to become the second longest in US history!

quote:
Allow me take on of your favorite quotes, “Wrong. try again son,”
if you’re too stupid to understand that these are the kind of actions that led to the massive economic crash 10 years ago...then good god I really want whatever drugs you take. I enjoy escaping reality too!

[Edited on 12/23/2017 by lukester420]

You are saying specifically the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 led to the great recession? That isn't the case. What evidence do you have to support your position?

quote:
Allow me take on of your favorite quotes, “Wrong. try again son,”
if you’re too stupid to understand that these are the kind of actions that led to the massive economic crash 10 years ago...then good god I really want whatever drugs you take. I enjoy escaping reality too!

[Edited on 12/23/2017 by lukester420]

You are saying specifically the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 led to the great recession? That isn't the case. What evidence do you have to support your position?

Interesting, I need to show evidence to back my claims, yet you provide nothing but your own opinion to support your position.
The fact that you read that and immediately felt the need to defend the Bush administration speaks volumes.
In my opinion, it was not necessarily just the Bush administration and the tax cuts but the last oh, 35 years of gov’t policies that allowed for Wallstreet, lenders and other big business leaders to operate with impunity. Massive corruption, conflicts of interest and lack of regulation led to the crash. These are all things that are avoidable if you don’t subscribe to the laissez-Faire horse crap of letting crooks regulate themselves in the hope that they will just, out of the goodness of their own hearts not be greedy schmucks and stimulate anyone’s pockets but their own.

Haha, you're funny. You said "these are the kind of actions that led to the massive economic crash 10 years ago" in a thread about a tax cut bill. What is one supposed to take from that? I had no way to know what was inside your head beyond what you typed, what other actions are in this tax cut bill that I might've drawn some broader meaning from for your post? The last time "these kinds of actions" took place were the 2001 and 2003 Bush-era tax bills and had nothing to do with the great recession as you claimed, or I thought you claimed. Democrats have liked to paint that picture, but it is false as described here:

Now if you would've originally stated that it was something larger than just tax reform that led to the great recession, I wouldn't have raised a peep, we could actually agree on alot of those points. Your provided links are excellent snapshots and review of history. And I thank you for those for reminders and reference. But that wasn't the impression you gave, or I took, from your post. Blame you for not saying what you meant, or blame me for being too narrow in interpreting your words.

And yes, I will to this day defend, on principle the Bush-era tax cuts. My only objection was doing so on a war-footing which as we know happened not long after passage of part 1 of those cuts. I'm glad you now have "volumes" to take away from that opinion whatever that does for you going forward I don't know.

quote:I guess Republicans only care about debt and deficit when they are talking about entitlements?

Honestly I don't think most Republicans care about debt and deficit anyway...as long as they are the ones in power.

It should matter though, it matters to me, it makes sense...don't spend more than you receive.

That's just the thing with the projections. I don't know who to believe or trust on it. And really there are so many variables that are unpredictable and can change to make all the projections unreliable.

But one thing is for sure I think, raising taxes doesn't guarantee more tax revenue and cutting taxes doesn't guarantee less tax revenue. There is something to the behavior of the tax payer in light of having to tax plan to avoid paying higher taxes or being able to spend or invest more in light of less tax liability. It boils down to what the government decides (or is obligated) to spend the money on - so whatever the incoming tax receipts are is what should dictate what they spend.

Trickle down has never worked before. There is no reason to think it will work now. Republican projections are based on the rosy theory that by getting tax breaks, they will create jobs. BS. Jobs are created when the consumers are spending. Consumers spend when they have money. The paltry tax breaks consumers are getting will not help that much. When those tax breaks expire, a recession is sure to follow.

Wow, the left is talking about the national debt and throwing a faux -fit.

While Obama adding more to the national debt than all previous 43 Presidents combined we heard nothing from the left.

Okay, President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cut and Jobs Act might add about $1.5 Trillion to the national debt. However, the growth in GDP because of the strong economy the Tax Cut and Jobs Act will bring will easily wipeout that $1.5 Trillion.

Yet again The American People, President Trump and The Republicans score another major win and the lefties just lie can cry.

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