Post by bobness on Apr 11, 2019 10:33:46 GMT

Nottingham need a fire sale ahead of 2019/2020. Tear it all down and start anew.

Like last year, then?

The confusion of the possessive "its" (no apostrophe) with the contractive "it's" (with apostrophe) is an unequivocal signal of illiteracy and sets off a simple Pavlovian "kill" response in the average stickler. "Eats, shoots and leaves" - Lynne Truss

Post by Shaggy on Apr 11, 2019 11:30:35 GMT

Nottingham need a fire sale ahead of 2019/2020. Tear it all down and start anew.

Because that's how the Cardiff Devils built a double-league-winning (and nearly treble!) team... oh, wait a minute.

It’s a matter of distinction, a real fine line
[br]Between an orgy of destruction and a wonderful time
[br]
[br]There is always a well-known solution to every human problem - neat, plausible, and wrong.
[br]
[br]Owning the Steelers is a crime. Fortunately, it’s also the punishment…
[br]
[br]British ice hockey is so Mickey Mouse, I don't know if Disney should sponsor us or sue us!

Post by texpef on Apr 11, 2019 11:41:38 GMT

Nottingham need a fire sale ahead of 2019/2020. Tear it all down and start anew.

Because that's how the Cardiff Devils built a double-league-winning (and nearly treble!) team... oh, wait a minute.

No they didn't shaggy but they built a team from strength not weakness...

They improved steadily year on year and replaced players like for like or better in each position they had to recruit until we have seen an almost triple (one that I would want!!!)

When panthers could build on a position of strength we threw that template away with the better players who won the league and it has shown ever since...

Yes there are individual players that some fans may want to keep but are we going to get the same old attitude from them again next season... If I am being absolutely honest I am livid in part the panthers have made the playoff weekend because if they had shown that determination throughout the league we may have done a lot better and I may have seen a lot more hockey....

Quote "Paul Hand should really be pulled off by his coach"... ;) Quality BBC...

Post by Shaggy on Apr 11, 2019 12:06:10 GMT

Discussion moved from the 2019/20 General Signing Discussion thread, because that's really supposed to be for other teams...

It’s a matter of distinction, a real fine line
[br]Between an orgy of destruction and a wonderful time
[br]
[br]There is always a well-known solution to every human problem - neat, plausible, and wrong.
[br]
[br]Owning the Steelers is a crime. Fortunately, it’s also the punishment…
[br]
[br]British ice hockey is so Mickey Mouse, I don't know if Disney should sponsor us or sue us!

Post by Bagheera on Apr 11, 2019 12:24:28 GMT

Been said a number of times throughout the season and before. The personel cant entirely be the problem. To many good players turn up here and dont deliver for it to just be about them. It comes down to culture and such like. I'd like to see a core return and get somebody in to engage them properly.

The more I think about it the simpler the problem becomes in my eyes.A lot of this culture and issues at the club stem from one key point.

North Americans, and in fact nearly all nationalities comes here believing that the play offs are the most important thing and the league is just one long warm up. You cant really blame them for that, it's all they've ever known.The key difference between the likes of Cardiff, Belfast, Sheffield etc is that they chose to engage the imports in the belief that the league is massively important in this country. Panthers on the other hand(Or a few key people within the organisation) chose to allow the players to continue to believe the play offs are more important and that the league is a side show. The budget appears to be there, the quality is in the roster and has been on many occasions. This has been demonstrated over many years by the fact the players have managed to pick it up for the cup competitions. Which also likely why its seen as acceptable to spend so much time in the pub during the season.Get somebody in higher up to instill a new belief around the league, higher a coach and engage then to do the same. Get rid of the old faces for whom this has become the norm at Panthers.

Post by Shaggy on Apr 11, 2019 12:25:03 GMT

Because that's how the Cardiff Devils built a double-league-winning (and nearly treble!) team... oh, wait a minute.

No they didn't shaggy but they built a team from strength not weakness...

They improved steadily year on year and replaced players like for like or better in each position they had to recruit until we have seen an almost triple (one that I would want!!!)

When panthers could build on a position of strength we threw that template away with the better players who won the league and it has shown ever since...

Yes there are individual players that some fans may want to keep but are we going to get the same old attitude from them again next season... If I am being absolutely honest I am livid in part the panthers have made the playoff weekend because if they had shown that determination throughout the league we may have done a lot better and I may have seen a lot more hockey....

The issue that I have with the 'fire sale' / "sack 'em all" viewpoint is quite simple... it's an indiscriminate solution proposed for a problem or problems that nobody has been able to clearly define AND prove.

The complaint tends to be along the lines of... 'the Panthers consistently fail to compete for the league title' (often there's the "we have the biggest budget so we should win" argument tacked on as well).OK, I don't think that anyone can deny that the overall results re the league championship have been more than just a bit disappointing (other trophies we've done pretty well at, and we are the most successful British team in Europe, so it's not ALL bad).But the question is - why? What has caused this?

Nobody knows.I'll stress that again... nobody knows.Lots of theories, lots of opinions... virtually zero hard evidence to back up the arguments beyond 'it stands to reason' or 'everyone knows' or - a personal favourite of mine - "well, can you think of a better reason?".

And what are the theories?- It's all Neil Black's fault, he won't spend enough or he doesn't care a bit about the club, only the money- Gary Moran is The Root Of All Evil (TM)... get rid of him and all will be rosy- the coaches are useless (when was the last time that we had a coach who didn't get constantly pilloried?)- the players don't care, they just come here for a jolly- it's all the fault of the 'happy clappers' - if we all booed the team and didn't 'reward poor performances' by applauding/cheering them, all would be great- too many quiz nightsetc etc

There may or may not be some level of truth in any of the above... equally, any of them could be complete and utter tosh.

Nobody knows

Too many assumptions, not enough information. And too many people who are just completely unwilling to use the three most valuable words in the English language when trying to define a problem... "I don't know". Oh no... everybody knows that they are right, and they must defend their position to the death. And so it goes on...

Until we can be sure exactly what the causes are, how can we put forward a sensible solution?So... a 'fire sale' may be the answer... equally, the alternative 'keep some/most and build on that' approach may be the answer. Because who's to say that a completely new batch of players won't have exactly the same problems as the current batch?We just don't know.

It’s a matter of distinction, a real fine line
[br]Between an orgy of destruction and a wonderful time
[br]
[br]There is always a well-known solution to every human problem - neat, plausible, and wrong.
[br]
[br]Owning the Steelers is a crime. Fortunately, it’s also the punishment…
[br]
[br]British ice hockey is so Mickey Mouse, I don't know if Disney should sponsor us or sue us!

Post by bobness on Apr 11, 2019 12:50:33 GMT

would it hurt to have some positive and upbeat discussion on here for a change?

You should be on telly.

The confusion of the possessive "its" (no apostrophe) with the contractive "it's" (with apostrophe) is an unequivocal signal of illiteracy and sets off a simple Pavlovian "kill" response in the average stickler. "Eats, shoots and leaves" - Lynne Truss

Post by iginla on Apr 11, 2019 16:11:00 GMT

He's doing a 6 hour one man show on Freesports instead of the semi finals. It's outrageous.

Yeah but it’ll be a £10 webcast though. The EIHL need the money....£500k from a weekend just isn’t enough ! And anyway,they’ve only got one camera and there’s an under 10’s ping pong tournament in Kings Lynn on Saturday so they’re covering that instead. 🙄🤣

Post by texpef on Apr 14, 2019 9:38:03 GMT

No they didn't shaggy but they built a team from strength not weakness...

They improved steadily year on year and replaced players like for like or better in each position they had to recruit until we have seen an almost triple (one that I would want!!!)

When panthers could build on a position of strength we threw that template away with the better players who won the league and it has shown ever since...

Yes there are individual players that some fans may want to keep but are we going to get the same old attitude from them again next season... If I am being absolutely honest I am livid in part the panthers have made the playoff weekend because if they had shown that determination throughout the league we may have done a lot better and I may have seen a lot more hockey....

The issue that I have with the 'fire sale' / "sack 'em all" viewpoint is quite simple... it's an indiscriminate solution proposed for a problem or problems that nobody has been able to clearly define AND prove.

The complaint tends to be along the lines of... 'the Panthers consistently fail to compete for the league title' (often there's the "we have the biggest budget so we should win" argument tacked on as well).OK, I don't think that anyone can deny that the overall results re the league championship have been more than just a bit disappointing (other trophies we've done pretty well at, and we are the most successful British team in Europe, so it's not ALL bad).But the question is - why? What has caused this?

Nobody knows.I'll stress that again... nobody knows.Lots of theories, lots of opinions... virtually zero hard evidence to back up the arguments beyond 'it stands to reason' or 'everyone knows' or - a personal favourite of mine - "well, can you think of a better reason?".

And what are the theories?- It's all Neil Black's fault, he won't spend enough or he doesn't care a bit about the club, only the money- Gary Moran is The Root Of All Evil (TM)... get rid of him and all will be rosy- the coaches are useless (when was the last time that we had a coach who didn't get constantly pilloried?)- the players don't care, they just come here for a jolly- it's all the fault of the 'happy clappers' - if we all booed the team and didn't 'reward poor performances' by applauding/cheering them, all would be great- too many quiz nightsetc etc

There may or may not be some level of truth in any of the above... equally, any of them could be complete and utter tosh.

Nobody knows

Too many assumptions, not enough information. And too many people who are just completely unwilling to use the three most valuable words in the English language when trying to define a problem... "I don't know". Oh no... everybody knows that they are right, and they must defend their position to the death. And so it goes on...

Until we can be sure exactly what the causes are, how can we put forward a sensible solution?So... a 'fire sale' may be the answer... equally, the alternative 'keep some/most and build on that' approach may be the answer. Because who's to say that a completely new batch of players won't have exactly the same problems as the current batch?We just don't know.

Its probably (and there I said it to make you feel happy) a little/a lot of all the above but imho the biggest problem is that with what SHOULD be the biggest budget in the league other teams who really shouldn't have the spending power we do have better quality squads and that imho is why they win, its no surprise that the two what appeared to be biggest budget teams once the league campaign got started where neck and neck and ended one and two and are in the playoff final is it?...

Buy the best squad and it wont make much difference imho how many jumble sales or quiz nights they attend as cream rises to the top....

Quote "Paul Hand should really be pulled off by his coach"... ;) Quality BBC...

Post by iginla on Apr 14, 2019 10:37:19 GMT

The issue that I have with the 'fire sale' / "sack 'em all" viewpoint is quite simple... it's an indiscriminate solution proposed for a problem or problems that nobody has been able to clearly define AND prove.

The complaint tends to be along the lines of... 'the Panthers consistently fail to compete for the league title' (often there's the "we have the biggest budget so we should win" argument tacked on as well).OK, I don't think that anyone can deny that the overall results re the league championship have been more than just a bit disappointing (other trophies we've done pretty well at, and we are the most successful British team in Europe, so it's not ALL bad).But the question is - why? What has caused this?

Nobody knows.I'll stress that again... nobody knows.Lots of theories, lots of opinions... virtually zero hard evidence to back up the arguments beyond 'it stands to reason' or 'everyone knows' or - a personal favourite of mine - "well, can you think of a better reason?".

And what are the theories?- It's all Neil Black's fault, he won't spend enough or he doesn't care a bit about the club, only the money- Gary Moran is The Root Of All Evil (TM)... get rid of him and all will be rosy- the coaches are useless (when was the last time that we had a coach who didn't get constantly pilloried?)- the players don't care, they just come here for a jolly- it's all the fault of the 'happy clappers' - if we all booed the team and didn't 'reward poor performances' by applauding/cheering them, all would be great- too many quiz nightsetc etc

There may or may not be some level of truth in any of the above... equally, any of them could be complete and utter tosh.

Nobody knows

Too many assumptions, not enough information. And too many people who are just completely unwilling to use the three most valuable words in the English language when trying to define a problem... "I don't know". Oh no... everybody knows that they are right, and they must defend their position to the death. And so it goes on...

Until we can be sure exactly what the causes are, how can we put forward a sensible solution?So... a 'fire sale' may be the answer... equally, the alternative 'keep some/most and build on that' approach may be the answer. Because who's to say that a completely new batch of players won't have exactly the same problems as the current batch?We just don't know.

Its probably (and there I said it to make you feel happy) a little/a lot of all the above but imho the biggest problem is that with what SHOULD be the biggest budget in the league other teams who really shouldn't have the spending power we do have better quality squads and that imho is why they win, its no surprise that the two what appeared to be biggest budget teams once the league campaign got started where neck and neck and ended one and two and are in the playoff final is it?...

Buy the best squad and it wont make much difference imho how many jumble sales or quiz nights they attend as cream rises to the top....

Spot on Tex.Back in August many could see who the front runners were,purely looking at CV’s and squads put together and we weren’t wrong.If you want to win you have to sign half a dozen quality players then get the solid guys,Devils have them and so do Belfast,that’s why they’re the top two by a mile.Nobody else in the EIHL has those half dozen difference makers and that’s why the gap this year was massive.

Post by Mark on Apr 14, 2019 21:10:02 GMT

And that means we couldn’t even see Cardiff and Belfast, they were so far in front. People claiming the season hasn’t been too bad because we finished third in league and playoffs and qualified for Europe are either deluded or should be sectioned.

Neville Chamberlain, the original happy clapper.[br]I'd say he got it wrong.[br][br]

Post by allingtonskates on Apr 15, 2019 10:28:17 GMT

I’d take back Hughes Olsen guptill. (Rissling only if he stopped getting stupid suspensions) the rest can be upgraded on. I’d give pither a chance too as we have seen how good he can be. Need a coach who isn’t a yes man imo and someone who knows how to run the team properly.

To be fair, no-one predicted a Belfast league win. Most people went for Cardiff.

The confusion of the possessive "its" (no apostrophe) with the contractive "it's" (with apostrophe) is an unequivocal signal of illiteracy and sets off a simple Pavlovian "kill" response in the average stickler. "Eats, shoots and leaves" - Lynne Truss

Post by meadow on Apr 15, 2019 10:54:37 GMT

Given that they've highlighted that exit interviews are taking place today (can't remember this happening before), I wonder if we'll see a euro-style 'thanks for your services' release list of non-returners in the next few days? The Clan have done it this year and I believe Shuff did it last year too.

I know on twitter people have been questioning why Strachan is even doing these exit interviews if he's only the 'interim' head coach, but I think most of us assume whoever the head coach is, RS will still be around in some capacity...