(27-10-2015 10:49 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote: Pointing out gently that here you go again. Why say that? It implies that christians are "better people." ALL persons should be held to practice what they avow. Just because christians have a guidebook doesn't mean they are superior or that their behavior is superior. Would you look at an insult and say, "Oh, that's OK. He's an atheist. We cant expect any better."? Atheists are quite capable of the same level of compassion, kindness, and understanding. We are no better/worse/different than anybody else, with the exception that we don't believe in any god.

And you're still here, aren't you? Atheists: 1, Christian Forum: 0

I do not intent to say that Christians are better people. I apologize again if I am not being clear. Btw...you are making a very valid point and I do understand the source of your frustration. I am not in any way trying to say that Christians are better than atheist. Christians are human and are prone to mistakes just like anyone else. They are flawed just like anyone else. So why am I harder on them than let's say atheist? Well my answer is simple and I am fairly certain that it will not be very popular. Now I emphasize to everyone that I am in no way trying to force my religious views on anyone. Only trying to explain why I personally believe the things I do. Please look at this as an explanation for why some Christians may behave the way they do. Particularly in this case, myself.

Now to answer your question. I do not think Christians are better than anyone else. Christians are flawed as I previously stated but I believe they are more accountable for their actions. I will correct them and even rebuke them because that is what is taught in the bible. There are numerous scriptures that say so. Proverbs 27:17, Galatians 6:1-2, Matthew 18:15-17, James 5:19-20, Hebrews 3:12-13. So as a Christian, when another brother or sister in Christ is lead astray, it is my obligation as a Christian to show them the error of their ways. Not out of hate and anger but out of love. Just like a parent scolds a child. A parent does it out of love. So to I am supposed to make known to the Christian in question where he is failing. In the same way I would expect the same treatment.

Now I am not trying to say I am without flaws. I know I have personal battles with sin and I continue to fall short.

Now I am trying very hard to respect atheistic beliefs. I am not perfect at it but I am a working progress. I am not going to hold atheist to the standards written in the bible. It's not fair. Why should I try to force you to conform to the commandments of a religion? I would be upset if a Orthodox Jew told me I was going to hell because I ate bacon. Why should I do the same to anyone else. Btw... I love bacon.

I really hope this will explain my personal views in a way that is understandable. Do you agree that Christians, Jews, Muslim, or Hindu ought to be held accountable for what they claim to represent? Would you be outraged is a person of faith willingly violated the teachings of their faith only to judge you for not living up to their expectations?

My argument is with your use of the term "higher" standard. It's the whole "We christians are superior to you heathens" attitude. Why is your standard any higher than anyone else's standard?

And I am outraged when a person of any faith judges me according to their faith, whether they are perfect or not. Correction - I am outraged when a person of any faith judges me according to their faith and shoves it down my throat. You are free to think of me as you will. Just keep it to yourself.

BTW - bacon is a carcinogen. Even though I've been known to partake myself on occasion. Would you like it if I followed you around and told you this - loudly - every time you thought about a BLT just because I was a vegetarian?

It's not necessarily that anyone thinks this. It's that they proclaim it at 120 decibels ad nauseum. It gets tired real fast.

(27-10-2015 01:19 PM)jason_delisle Wrote: I do not intent to say that Christians are better people. I apologize again if I am not being clear. Btw...you are making a very valid point and I do understand the source of your frustration. I am not in any way trying to say that Christians are better than atheist. Christians are human and are prone to mistakes just like anyone else. They are flawed just like anyone else. So why am I harder on them than let's say atheist? Well my answer is simple and I am fairly certain that it will not be very popular. Now I emphasize to everyone that I am in no way trying to force my religious views on anyone. Only trying to explain why I personally believe the things I do. Please look at this as an explanation for why some Christians may behave the way they do. Particularly in this case, myself.

Now to answer your question. I do not think Christians are better than anyone else. Christians are flawed as I previously stated but I believe they are more accountable for their actions. I will correct them and even rebuke them because that is what is taught in the bible. There are numerous scriptures that say so. Proverbs 27:17, Galatians 6:1-2, Matthew 18:15-17, James 5:19-20, Hebrews 3:12-13. So as a Christian, when another brother or sister in Christ is lead astray, it is my obligation as a Christian to show them the error of their ways. Not out of hate and anger but out of love. Just like a parent scolds a child. A parent does it out of love. So to I am supposed to make known to the Christian in question where he is failing. In the same way I would expect the same treatment.

Now I am not trying to say I am without flaws. I know I have personal battles with sin and I continue to fall short.

Now I am trying very hard to respect atheistic beliefs. I am not perfect at it but I am a working progress. I am not going to hold atheist to the standards written in the bible. It's not fair. Why should I try to force you to conform to the commandments of a religion? I would be upset if a Orthodox Jew told me I was going to hell because I ate bacon. Why should I do the same to anyone else. Btw... I love bacon.

I really hope this will explain my personal views in a way that is understandable. Do you agree that Christians, Jews, Muslim, or Hindu ought to be held accountable for what they claim to represent? Would you be outraged is a person of faith willingly violated the teachings of their faith only to judge you for not living up to their expectations?

No flaming come-back. -Maybe a little course correction is all.

Good news! You’re not going to hell because you eat bacon. No Orthodox Jew will ever tell you this, and there are two reasons why. First, hell is an imaginary place that exists only in the minds of Christians. Phew, right?! Secondly, Jews believe that the Torah was given to the Jews, and not to the Gentiles. Only Jews are forbidden to eat pork; not anyone else. For whatever it's worth, no Jews are going to hell for eating bacon either, because hell is not a real place. It is just pretend.

For the record, if anyone tells you that you’re going to hell for any reason what-so-ever, then that person is using devious intimidation tactics to try to control your behavior. Run –don’t walk, but RUN- away from them. They’re terribly misguided people and they’re only going to make you feel bad about yourself. Get away from them!

*Your Proverbs quote is maybe a tiny bit off key. The passage is referring to bolstering each other’s knowledge of Torah, not about rebuking one another.

In your posts, you’re kind of talking down about yourself, calling yourself flawed, imperfect and a sinner. We do not think on those terms and folks here may not relate well to statements like that. You don’t have to talk down about yourself here. You should try focusing on your positive attributes. Give yourself some credit! You sound like a smart guy who’s got a promising future on the horizon. You’ve got an open mind, and you’re sensitive to others. You’re going to really help some people when you reach your goal of being a military chaplain. The credit for all of that should go to YOU because YOU’RE doing the hard work to get there!

You should rightly expect a minimum level of appropriate behavior from all humans. No one gets a pass on common courtesy just because they’re from one culture or another. –But if we’re dealing with someone from another culture that we’re not familiar with, then we should make every effort to be lenient with them until we understand more about them. Give every single person you meet every conceivable benefit of the doubt to explain away bad behavior.

If you want to judge Christians with a more stringent set of standards, then that’s your business, but understand that you’re still judging them. You’re still putting them on a pedestal that *could* be above their level. Try leading by example instead of rebuking.

(27-10-2015 01:45 PM)jason_delisle Wrote: I know my previous statement may have everyone fuming. I welcome the roasting. It is fine. To be expected.

Actually, I'm not mad at it at all; I almost completely agree with you.

Especially in light of Aliza and Thinkerbelle's excellent additions to your point.

I often say to my Christian friends that while I admire the Code of Bushido, the Way of the Warrior practiced by Japanese Samurai, because of the dedication it takes to uphold that code and live one's life according to its strict tenets, and will have utmost respect for those who even come close to accomplishing it... I will turn into their hostile enemy the moment they think that I, too, should be practicing Bushido, or that I am less of a person because I do not.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson