July 13-16: The 329th Chemical Platoon worked in conjunction with Marines from Multi-National Force-West and Soldiers from Multi-National Division-Center to secure approxomately 40,000 gallons of nitric acid that was found in a cache in Fallujah, Iraq, for disposal. The 329th Chemical Platoon is support reserve unit for Task Force Phantom, Multi-National Corps-Iraq. HQ is Winter Park, Florida. (U.S. Army/Spc. Fernando Gonzalez)

I’m with you. Who is going to win Dancing With The Stars? We HAVE to get our priorities in order here. No one cares about war, the troops, enemies at the gate. We have to get the beer and pizza, see the big game, watch Oprah, watch Larry King Live, check out the celb’s, wonder about whether Britney is preg again, where the freebies are coming from. Who has time for this freedom crap? /sarcasm still heavily on.

8
posted on 09/23/2007 4:15:22 PM PDT
by RetiredArmy
(I am sick & tired of all political parties. They fight over everything and do nothing for the USA)

So what is the significance of a bunch of nitric acid in terms of WMD’s. I know a lot of conventional explosives are nitrogen based, but I’m wondering if Nitric acid is used to make nerve, blood or blister agents etc as well.

Of course, some of this is the President’s own fault. Early in the war when they started to find various caches of WMD’s the White House said that those weren’t the WMD’s they were talking about before the war. I expect that it was because they didn’t want to open up that discussion again, but it was still pretty dumb.

I mean it’s nice that this cache was found (nitric acid can be used to make IEDs), so that’s all good. But it’s not a WMD and the fact that terrorists in Iraq are using (and seemingly manufacturing) it in Iraq in 2007 has no relevance to what may or may not have been held by the Iraqi government in 2003. Claiming otherwise just invites opponents to make you look silly.

Just because it isn’t a WMD yet doesn’t mean it doesn’t have the capability of becoming a WMD if scientists (like Saddam had plenty of) manipulate it enough. Also, there were those chemicals from Iraq they found at the UN. They were WMDs, weren’t they?

I suppose it depends on the defition used and how broadly you interpret it.

This definition is from US law, 18 U.S.C. Section 2332a and the referenced 18 USC 921:
(1) Any explosive, incendiary, poison gas, bomb, grenade, or rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces [113 g], missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce [7 g], or mine or device similar to the above. (2) Poison gas. (3) Any weapon involving a disease organism. (4) Any weapon that is designed to release radiation at a level dangerous to human life.

“Indictments and convictions for possession and use of WMD such as truck bombs, pipe bombs, shoe bombs, cactus needles coated with botulin toxin, etc. have been obtained under 18 USC 2332a.”

“The US FBI also considers conventional weapons (i.e. bombs) as WMD: ‘A weapon crosses the WMD threshold when the consequences of its release overwhelm local responders’”

The plain language of the phrase suggests it maybe shouldn’t be included since it perhaps can’t cause mass causalties, or can it?

“The sodium cyanide was found inside an ammunition canister, next to hydrochloric, nitric and acetic acids and formulas for making bombs. If acid were mixed with the sodium cyanide, an analysis showed, it would create a bomb powerful enough to kill everyone inside a 30,000-square-foot facility, investigators said.”

As in April 1915, with the first uses of chlorine gas on the Western Front in World War I, these explosions sowed widespread panic, underlining — as the bombers no doubt intended — the inability of the Americans to protect potential allies in al-Anbar Province, the heartland of the Sunni insurgency. (The recent discovery of stocks of chlorine and nitric acid in a Sunni neighborhood of west Baghdad will hardly assuage those fears.)http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/49871/

“Chemical weapons expert Gert G. Harigel considers only nuclear weapons true weapons of mass destruction, because ‘only nuclear weapons are completely indiscriminate by their explosive power, heat radiation and radioactivity, and only they should therefore be called a weapon of mass destruction’ He prefers to call chemical and biological weapons ‘weapons of terror’ when aimed against civilians and “weapons of intimidation” for soldiers.”

Al Qa-Qa State Establishment
Other Names: Latifiyah Double Base Propellant Plant; Latifiyah SSM Equipment Production Facility, Al Qa-Qa Establishment Salah Al-Din Plant; Salah Al-Din Powder Factory, Khaled Plant, Al Qa-Qa Ammo and Explosives Plant
Location: Baghdad, Latifiyah, approximately 60km south of Baghdad
Subordinate to: Military Industrialization Commission
Primary Function: Production of double-base propellants, NITRIC ACID, explosives.
The site contained five main production sub-areas, including those for double-base propellants, explosives, and nitric acids as well as smaller facilities for warhead filling, isomer separation, engine static testing, storage, etc. The agreement to build the nitric acid plant was reached with a Yugoslav firm in 1974 but much of the equipment was bought from Germany.http://nti.org/e_research/profiles/iraq/missile/2967_3018.html

“Nitric acid was monitored by the UNMOVIC and UNSCOM (particularly IRFNA) because it is an essential element of missile fuel (like the SCUD, NO DONG and GHAURI) restricted by the UN resolutions and a violation UN res 687 and others”

So what is the significance of a bunch of nitric acid in terms of WMDs. I know a lot of conventional explosives are nitrogen based, but Im wondering if Nitric acid is used to make nerve, blood or blister agents etc as well.

I will never understand why Bush won't go to Iraq when these things are found and proclaim to the media that yes, there were indeed WMDs in Iraq, and here they are.

I have heard it explained more than once on this forum that there were WMDs, but the administration was embarrassed that many WMDs were stolen out from under the noses of the military. Accordingly, the administration was content to take the bad wrap in exchange for no investigation on how our military managed to lose them all to scavengers and other opportunists ready to make a buck selling them on the black market.

Of course, some of this is the Presidents own fault. Early in the war when they started to find various caches of WMDs the White House said that those werent the WMDs they were talking about before the war. I expect that it was because they didnt want to open up that discussion again, but it was still pretty dumb.

It was a very dumb move--and now, most of the media believes that there was never any evidence of WMD in Iraq. The fact of the matter is that we have found substantial evidence of WMD in Iraq. I'll give two examples, just to start off:

1) Polish military officials were able to buy chemical weapons warheads from so-called Iraqi insurgents, for about five-thousand dollars a piece in 2004, per the BBC ("Troops 'foil Iraq nerve gas bid,'"BBC News, July, 2004).

It was low-enriched Uranium, not remotely "weapons-grade" that had been under IAEA seal, regularly inspected before the war, everbody was aware of it, and was left in Iraq with the permission of the IAEA and did not violate any UN sanctions.

The danger of that uranium would be pretty much limited to someone dropping some of it on your head from a window.

It was low-enriched Uranium, not remotely "weapons-grade" that had been under IAEA seal, regularly inspected before the war, everbody was aware of it, and was left in Iraq with the permission of the IAEA and did not violate any UN sanctions.

No, the BBC article was about a US operation to remove it from Iraq. Like I said the uranium in question had been declared and monitored since GWI. It wasn't discovered by the US in any way, shape, or form.

The whole story has been unfortunately twisted in the repeating by people that desperately want the facts to be different.

6 June 2003 — On 7 June 2003, a team of seven IAEA safeguards inspectors will begin taking an inventory and securing nuclear material at the nuclear material storage site at the Tuwaitha nuclear complex. The nuclear material - 1.8 tonnes of low enriched uranium and 500 tonnes of natural uranium - had been under IAEA seal since 1991. It was last visited by IAEA inspectors in February 2003.

The US has revealed that it removed more than 1.7 metric tons of radioactive material from Iraq in a secret operation last month. 'This operation was a major achievement,' said US Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham in a statement.

He said it would keep 'potentially dangerous nuclear materials out of the hands of terrorists'.

Along with 1.77 tons of enriched uranium, about 1,000 "highly radioactive sources" were also removed.

The material was taken from a former nuclear research facility on 23 June, after being packaged by 20 experts from the US Energy Department's secret laboratories.

It was flown out of the country aboard a military plane in a joint operation with the Department of Defense, and is being stored temporarily at a Department of Energy facility.

The United Nations nuclear watchdog - the International Atomic Energy Agency - and Iraqi officials were informed ahead of the operation, which happened ahead of the 28 June handover of sovereignty.

'Dirty bomb'?

The explosion of a so-called 'dirty bomb' in a city by a terrorist group is a major concern of Western intelligence agencies.

Rather than causing a nuclear explosion, a 'dirty bomb' would see radioactive material combined with a conventional explosive - probably causing widespread panic and requiring a large clean-up operation.

Uranium would not be suitable for fashioning such a device, though appropriate material may have been among the other unidentified 'sources'.

Mr Abraham added that the operation had also prevented the material falling into the hands 'of countries that may seek to develop their own nuclear weapons'.

The 1,000 'sources' evacuated in the Iraqi operation included a 'huge range' of radioactive items used for medical purposes and industrial purposes, a spokesman for the Energy Department's National Nuclear Security Administration told AP news agency.

Bryan Wilkes said much of the material was 'in powdered form, which is easily dispersed.'

The IAEA has been among organisations which have warned that many countries have lost track of radioactive material."

Before the 2003 War, Nitric Acid was one of the dual use chemicals that Iraq had bought in huge quantities. The UN inspectors were having a hard time keeping up with where it all was. We’re talking 100s of tones of high concentration Nitric Acid.

Today, plenty of the IEDs are made with dual use urea fertilizer and Nitric Acid. Nitric Acid is a strong oxidizer and corrosive — and one of the dual use materials that could be used to manufacturer chemical weapons.

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