Though this not be the case for the OP, for some people, it's not merely about quality. Some people choose to withdraw from purchasing products from companies whose practices may be less than stellar. For instance, certain clothing companies and child labor. It may not be good enough for someone that they make a really slick pair of shoes that he or she ignores something they don't believe in. You may not agree and think, "hey, as long as I like the product, who cares who is behind it," but I find it hard to fault someone who does care.

Beer Trader

"Craft" beer and "Micro Breweries" are soooo 2012. My friends and I now only drink "Pico Brews" ie Beers whose annual production measures <2 quarts and serving type is by the teaspoon. If we find out they produced anything north of a gallon we burn them down.

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Don't you think that's a little radical? How about a little boycotting or picketing first.

Beer Trader

I wouldn't say bad labor practices are the only pre-requisite to deciding whether or not you want to support a company. I have seen a few people here opting not to buy anything under the BMC umbrella due do its detrimental nature to the craft beer industry. But it's not as simple as not buying Bud Light or Miller Lite; these companies own and produce a lot of other beers that, while some can be considered good, people choose not to support.

Again, I don't want to speak for the OP as the intent wasn't clear, but to me the idea of "fake" is to say that it's owned by one of these conglomerates and to buy from them is to financially support their less-than-ideal cause.

Well, until I notice a trend of awfulness coming from GI, I'm still ok with it. I think a lot of people write it off just to be dicks, which is their loss IMO.

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How does this work exactly? People decide that they want to be dicks, and express this by not buying Goose Island beers? People don't have the right to choose which brewers they want to support with their hard earned dollars? Whom exactly are they being "dicks" to?

How does this work exactly? People decide that they want to be dicks, and express this by not buying Goose Island beers? People don't have the right to choose which brewers they want to support with their hard earned dollars? Whom exactly are they being "dicks" to?

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Easy there, buddy.

You're going to sit there and tell me people don't write off GI just because InBev acquired them, regardless of the product which stands on its own?

Beer Trader

I wouldn't say bad labor practices are the only pre-requisite to deciding whether or not you want to support a company. I have seen a few people here opting not to buy anything under the BMC umbrella due do its detrimental nature to the craft beer industry. But it's not as simple as not buying Bud Light or Miller Lite; these companies own and produce a lot of other beers that, while some can be considered good, people choose not to support.

Again, I don't want to speak for the OP as the intent wasn't clear, but to me the idea of "fake" is to say that it's owned by one of these conglomerates and to buy from them is to financially support their less-than-ideal cause.

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What is their "less-than-ideal-cause?" Making a profit selling a beer that people like well enough to buy?

Beer Trader

What is their "less-than-ideal-cause?" Making a profit selling a beer that people like well enough to buy?

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"Cause" wasn't the right word. Less-than-ideal tactics, perhaps? My point is, some people don't want to support huge conglomerates that muscle smaller companies out of contention. Just because it's the point of BMC to make as much money as they can doesn't mean one has to support it, regardless of quality.

Beer Trader

Perhaps "dicks" wasn't the best word to use on my end. But what you're describing is what I think is referred to as "being a hater."

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Have to disagree. "Hating" on something is to dislike it because everyone else is hyping it. It's to be that guy who pops into a Zombie Dust or Heady Topper thread and says "meh." No one is saying GI doesn't make fine beers, which makes it so far from being a hater to opt out of buying their beers for the sake of upholding a personal value (i.e. not supporting AB-InBev).

Note: I make no such distinctions when I purchase; I purchase based on quality and interest in the style. But to begrudge someone for having a value beyond the quality of the product is sort of blowing my mind right now.

I believe that staying away from business that muscle smaller breweries off of tap lines and out of bottle shops is more important. I think there's a large portion of craft brewers that, even though they recognize you as their comptetion, still would like you to do well. I think that is a wonderful thing and what the craft community should be all about. Inbev, as far as I understand, does not support craft beer in such a way. They support craft as long as they are making money off of it, sure. However, they won't hesistate to find a way to keep a small up-start brewery from prospering. As such, I'd prefer not to support Inbev, regardless of the quality of their products.

Have to disagree. "Hating" on something is to dislike it because everyone else is hyping it. It's to be that guy who pops into a Zombie Dust or Heady Topper thread and says "meh." No one is saying GI doesn't make fine beers, which makes it so far from being a hater to opt out of buying their beers for the sake of upholding a personal value (i.e. not supporting AB-InBev).

Note: I make no such distinctions when I purchase; I purchase based on quality and interest in the style. But to begrudge someone for having a value beyond the quality of the product is sort of blowing my mind right now.

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I agree with a lot of what you said, and perhaps read into things earlier, incorrectly. But the beginning of this, I have to disagree with. Mainly because I am one of those who after acquiring a 4 pack of Heady, failed to see why it was sought after with such a ravenous desire. If I'm following you definition correctly, and I might not be, but I'm not allowed to dislike it even with my personal tastes, because it is widely known as a "good" beer? My own preference labels me as a hater, regardless of anything else?

Beer Trader

"Cause" wasn't the right word. Less-than-ideal tactics, perhaps? My point is, some people don't want to support huge conglomerates that muscle smaller companies out of contention. Just because it's the point of BMC to make as much money as they can doesn't mean one has to support it, regardless of quality.

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I don't support a brewer because it makes money or doesn't make money. Of course if the brewer does not make money it will probably not stay in business long. I would be interested in hearing from a brewer - do you try to make as much money as you can while still maintaining a viable business? If its just about how big a brewer is and how much profit it makes, I don't understand. I would go with what I like (i.e. quality) everytime.

Beer Trader

I agree with a lot of what you said, and perhaps read into things earlier, incorrectly. But the beginning of this, I have to disagree with. Mainly because I am one of those who after acquiring a 4 pack of Heady, failed to see why it was sought after with such a ravenous desire. If I'm following you definition correctly, and I might not be, but I'm not allowed to dislike it even with my personal tastes, because it is widely known as a "good" beer? My own preference labels me as a hater, regardless of anything else?

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No, you aren't a hater because you actually disliked it (or at least didn't see the hype). To "hate" is to dislike it because it is well-liked.

Beer Trader

I don't support a brewer because it makes money or doesn't make money. Of course if the brewer does not make money it will probably not stay in business long. I would be interested in hearing from a brewer - do you try to make as much money as you can while still maintaining a viable business? If its just about how big a brewer is and how much profit it makes, I don't understand. I would go with what I like (i.e. quality) everytime.

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Really, you don't understand? You don't simply just "disagree?"

Tell me, if BMC's flagship beers were of the quality of Goose Island, would you still want them running the vast majority of the market? Because I personally wouldn't. If you do, fine. Agree to disagree.

Beer Trader

I'll give you that if people are saying "Fuck that shit, I don't like it!" And have never had it.

Are people saying that? If so, than they are just idiots and what they say should not have any weight in any regard.

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You're right, they shouldn't have weight, but it is extremely difficult to gauge sincerity of opinion on the internet (hence why everyone gets mislabeled a hater if they simply disagree with something).

Seems to me the issue should be less about whether or not one of the big conglomerates owns or invests in a particular brewery, and more about whether or not the brewery/label is simply a front for beer that's being directly mass-produced by said big conglomerate at one of their pre-existing facilities, but marketed like it's some independent craft brand.

Beer Trader

I believe that staying away from business that muscle smaller breweries off of tap lines and out of bottle shops is more important. I think there's a large portion of craft brewers that, even though they recognize you as their comptetion, still would like you to do well. I think that is a wonderful thing and what the craft community should be all about. Inbev, as far as I understand, does not support craft beer in such a way. They support craft as long as they are making money off of it, sure. However, they won't hesistate to find a way to keep a small up-start brewery from prospering. As such, I'd prefer not to support Inbev, regardless of the quality of their products.

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I'm missing something. I have ten bars and five bottle shops within 10 miles that serve all sorts of beers brewed by large and small brewers (not to mention the hundreds of other places that haven't decided to focus their business on craft brews, but still carry a stray brew or two). This issue of a big company muscling a smaller brewer off the tap line or out of the bottle shop does not seem to be happening in the DC area.

And to your point about craft brewers still wanting their competition to do well. I think that only goes so far. Go talk to the craft brewer who's in the red because he/she can't sell enough beer because there's a better brew in the region. I've worked in industry's with lots of small businesses. Everybody is friends as long as they are each achieving their financial goals.

You're right, they shouldn't have weight, but it is extremely difficult to gauge sincerity of opinion on the internet (hence why everyone gets mislabeled a hater if they simply disagree with something).

I'm missing something. I have ten bars and five bottle shops within 10 miles that serve all sorts of beers brewed by large and small brewers (not to mention the hundreds of other places that haven't decided to focus their business on craft brews, but still carry a stray brew or two). This issue of a big company muscling a smaller brewer off the tap line or out of the bottle shop does not seem to be happening in the DC area.

And to your point about craft brewers still wanting their competition to do well. I think that only goes so far. Go talk to the craft brewer who's in the red because he/she can't sell enough beer because there's a better brew in the region. I've worked in industry's with lots of small businesses. Everybody is friends as long as they are each achieving their financial goals.

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I am happy to hear that you haven't experienced it in DC. Unfortunately, I have heard of it happening around my area. My friend who owns a bar said that Inbev reps threatened to stop delivering Bud Light (her biggest seller) if she didn't put Shock Top on the tap line. Could she have made this story up? Sure. But I don't know why she would. That kind of behavior is not cool in my book.

I agree with your last point about the craft community being supportive, but only to a point. Nevertheless, there is some support there to begin with. I don't see the same coming out of Inbev.

SubscriberBeer Trader

Would you turn away from a great beer because it was made by a larger manufacturer?

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Yes. I refuse to purchase anything owned by AB/InBev. I will not put a dime in their coffers.
AB/InBev is bad for craft beer. If you chose to support them, I will continue to choose to be judgmental.

It is not "Stick it to the man." I have nothing against the man. (I'm a 46 year old white guy that just got whacked by the new tax reforms. In many people's eyes, I am "the man.") I do have a problem supporting corporations that take actions I find morally wrong. I choose not to support those corporations when possible.

Beer Trader

I'm missing something. I have ten bars and five bottle shops within 10 miles that serve all sorts of beers brewed by large and small brewers (not to mention the hundreds of other places that haven't decided to focus their business on craft brews, but still carry a stray brew or two). This issue of a big company muscling a smaller brewer off the tap line or out of the bottle shop does not seem to be happening in the DC area.

And to your point about craft brewers still wanting their competition to do well. I think that only goes so far. Go talk to the craft brewer who's in the red because he/she can't sell enough beer because there's a better brew in the region. I've worked in industry's with lots of small businesses. Everybody is friends as long as they are each achieving their financial goals.

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I think BMC muscling people is less likely to happen at extremely-devoted craft beer bars that don't even carry the product (or very little of it). The problem exists in these middle-ground bars that have your BMC and a few crafts as well (aka the vast majority of bars in this country, and thusly where most people might make the jump to craft).

SubscriberBeer Trader

I am happy to hear that you haven't experienced it in DC. Unfortunately, I have heard of it happening around my area. My friend who owns a bar said that Inbev reps threatened to stop delivering Bud Light (her biggest seller) if she didn't put Shock Top on the tap line. Could she have made this story up? Sure. But I don't know why she would. That kind of behavior is not cool in my book.

I agree with your last point about the craft community being supportive, but only to a point. Nevertheless, there is some support there to begin with. I don't see the same coming out of Inbev.

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Similiar story, liquor stores near me were strong armed to but in Goose Island and Stella displays. These displays, three foot wide and four shelves high take 12 feet of shelf space each. Goosie Island had about three feet of shelf space prior and Stella less. This removes 18 feet of shelf space for other craft beers.
If their Goose Island experiment works, AB/InBev will acquire other craft brewers and use these acquisitions to force out additional brewers. The AB/InBev will limit 80% of your selection to 3 or 4 craft brewers that they own.

Beer Trader

I think BMC muscling people is less likely to happen at extremely-devoted craft beer bars that don't even carry the product (or very little of it). The problem exists in these middle-ground bars that have your BMC and a few crafts as well (aka the vast majority of bars in this country, and thusly where most people might make the jump to craft).

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I'll start asking around about this muscling. Regarding those middle-ground bars - these establishments have a business model and it does not necessarily focus on craft beer drinkers. As far as "converting" someone to craft, my favorite beer in college was Old Mil (1984). Not much craft around then, but I did not change over night and neither would someone who visited a middle ground bar. All of those places have something that is not BMC. If that convert is moving in the craft beer direction they will find the beers they like, but it will not happen overnight, because change takes time and as I think we agree, not all bars carry a wide range of craft beer.