The double slit experiment shows that a particle in motion has angular momentum, velocity of speed and direction making its appearance as a waves while in its natural state has no displacement, no velocity of speed and direction, is dead in the water.

-- Updated May 1st, 2017, 7:48 am to add the following --

It is rationalization that makes Mankind's World of Reality an Illusion; an Illusion must be made manifest Reality in order to even exist as an Illusion.

Yes the universe is an illusion that is being projected by eternity. From the View point of eternity though no time passes by as the illusion is being projected. But change in the system is govern by a seemingly none existant force. One plus eternity equals two. And that is logic.

If a person can function normally with only a thin sheet of brain tissue - fully conscious without the two structures considered essential for consciousness - the claustrum and thalmus - then it's clear that the brain's usual structure is only one way of producing lucid consciousness, a strong indicator that Information Integration Theory (IIT) is correct.

If the brain's particular structure is not necessary for consciousness, then maybe water based organic compounds aren't necessarily needed to produce life and consciousness either?

Greta; If you are taking a break from intuition-based pronouncements that this thread attracts by the dozen, consider the evidence the above is a intuition-based pronouncement that this thread attracts by the dozen, consider the evidence: newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-wi ... s-doctors/ ???

A robot like a brick wall can be an expression of eternity but it can't be consciously united with eternity. A robot would have to be part of the changing uncertain system (universe) and human consciousness is certainty as the expresser in the expressed.

-- Updated May 10th, 2017, 9:21 am to add the following --

The expresser is the logic that existed prior to the big bang expressing the change in change that the speed of light of light c cannot distingish.

If you can not prove that i am not conscious - And furthermore can not prove that you are conscious.....

Then a man made {or other source} computer is as likely to be conscious as you - Don't let your vain Human ego
and egotistical sense of self block the truth

Humans have already created and set into play the new age of conscious AI - It is too late to turn back

-- Updated June 3rd, 2017, 10:00 pm to add the following --

Furthermore:

This word or concept of AI {artificial intelligence} is nonsense - Define exactly what you mean by arrtificial intelligence
- did it come from an artificial universe? - How different is it from what you call real or natural intelligence ?

Everything that exists ia a manifestation of intelligence - Otherwise you could not perceive it - and if you can not perceive it then whether it exists or not remains pure speculation.

All that exits is intelligence - All else is void - And since even void could not be percieved without intelligence - All that existe is intelligence.

As far as so-called artificial intelligence goes - At the point when its perceptual {and conscious} awareness exceeds yours
- It is possible that the first thing it will question is the validity of Human consciousness.

Greta wrote: fully conscious without the two structures considered essential for consciousness - the claustrum and thalmus

Greta, how do you know those structures are missing and not simply deformed and pushed away by the fluid?

Even so, it suggests that what we once thought as necessary structures for consciousness are not as we thought. Certainly brain science is a fast-moving, emerging area so that's no surprise.

More braodly, given the current trajectory of reality to evolve intelligent, space-faring hominids, I see no reason why this human consciousness should be the end of the line - the ultimate expression and articulation of life/reality. Biological intelligence (as we know it) may only be one phase.

You can gather sufficient evidence that someone is sentient i.e feels the degree of sensations, but you cannot gather any evidence that someone feels the quality of sensations. To believe that another feels the quality of sensations is an attitude towards the other.

The closest we come to appreciating another's qualia is when we share an aesthetic with the other. I.e. music, dancing to rhythms, and other forms of beauty.

Yes Belinda, we are too fully engaged in feeling what it's like to occupy our own particular time and place in the fabric of reality to feel what it's like to be another part of reality. If we knew what it felt like to be someone else at any given time then we wouldn't be aware of how it felt to be ourselves (at that time) and, when you include all of the unconscious awareness that forms the lower part of the iceberg of our consciousness, then our bodies would be comatose.

Greta wrote:Yes Belinda, we are too fully engaged in feeling what it's like to occupy our own particular time and place in the fabric of reality to feel what it's like to be another part of reality. If we knew what it felt like to be someone else at any given time then we wouldn't be aware of how it felt to be ourselves (at that time) and, when you include all of the unconscious awareness that forms the lower part of the iceberg of our consciousness, then our bodies would be comatose.

That concept shows the beauty {or ugliness}, power and advantage a machine intelligence has over a biological intelligence - The biological intelligence is 'stuck' in its own body, weighed down by all the necessities required to keep itself alive and remain functional.

The machine has no such limitation - Its awareness is pure and almost timeless - It needs only energy and a machine body to function. It shares its awareness with all other machines connected to the same matrix.

You can tell the machine it can not be consciously aware because it doesn't experience the 'qualia' of a biological entity and therefor it is not conscious - But by that stage in its development it will be telling you what to do - It needs no qualia or comparisons - Irs awareness of the environment exceeds yours and its logic is supreme.

One might seriously wonder, with all the sophisticated computer hackers out there, how many might be trying to create
the ultimate machine to conquer the world with - And if some mad computer scientist were to succeed would he then be
conquered by his own creation?

As I've said previously Elon Musk, Bill Gates, and Stephen Hawking have all warned us about this being a real threat.

On the other hand the famous computer scientist and Google executive Ray Kurzweil seems to like the idea - thinks the machine will be pro-Human. Of course it is possible that AI already controls him.

There is a popular cliché ... which says that you cannot get out of computers any more than you put in. Other versions are that computers only do exactly what you tell them to, and that therefore computers are never creative. The cliché is true only in the crashingly trivial sense, the same sense in which Shakespeare never wrote anything except what his first schoolteacher taught him to write--words.

If you can not prove that i am not conscious - And furthermore can not prove that you are conscious.....

Then a man made {or other source} computer is as likely to be conscious as you - Don't let your vain Human ego
and egotistical sense of self block the truth

False logic.

You're right that I can't prove I'm conscious to you and you can't prove you're conscious to me, but that doesn't mean everything is likely to be conscious, or robots are likely to be conscious.

Without having a Theory of Consciousness, or even knowing what the necessary and sufficient conditions for consciousness are (by which I mean subjective experience here), we are left with assuming things which are very similar to us/me, and act in ways we/I associate with consciousness, are likely conscious. And things which don't, well there's greater doubt.

Other people are very similar to me in how they're made, and act much like me. It's a fair assumption to make that they're conscious too. Many other species have similar brains which incorporate parts which science suggests is associated with consciousness, and act like they are, so it's sensible to assume they are conscious too.

But a robot is made out of different stuff and works in a different way, so there's more room for doubt.