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Re: Diener out indefinately

The Pacers will not bring back Jamaal Tinsley, who remains under contract but away from the team while the Pacers try to trade him.

You know what? At this point I really don't care if jamaal plays or not. He obviously wouldn't have the burden of knowing he has to carry the team and i believe the reduced 3rd string role is maybe what he needs. I think its silly to bring in ANOTHER point gaurd when we are paying one to sit at home. He doesn't have to play big minutes. And besides, it can only help his trade value. I'm not sure how hyped teams are about trading for a player that has been sitting on his @$$ for the past 4 months. Or perhaps with deiner going down it will prompt bird to take the trade that he said "would cost to much." All the sudden it seems we're not quite as deep at point as originally thought....

Re: Diener out indefinately

With 16 players already under contract and talk of bringing in another point guard, I'm thinking this really hurts Croshere's chances of making the team. McBob's chances are not looking too good either.

Re: Diener out indefinately

Another training camp body with no chance of making the team. That's all.

Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

Re: Diener out indefinately

You know what? At this point I really don't care if jamaal plays or not. He obviously wouldn't have the burden of knowing he has to carry the team and i believe the reduced 3rd string role is maybe what he needs. I think its silly to bring in ANOTHER point gaurd when we are paying one to sit at home. He doesn't have to play big minutes. And besides, it can only help his trade value. I'm not sure how hyped teams are about trading for a player that has been sitting on his @$$ for the past 4 months. Or perhaps with deiner going down it will prompt bird to take the trade that he said "would cost to much." All the sudden it seems we're not quite as deep at point as originally thought....

I'm adament about not buying Tinsley out, but I'm just as adament about Tinsley staying the hell away from the Fieldhouse. Using Tinsley is a Path to the "Dark Side". Injury leads to usage, usage leads to yet another chance, another chance leads to being stuck with him.

Personally, I'd rather them bring in a guy that they can showcase for the rest of the league. I'm sure there are enough point guards that would just love to be invited to a camp just to showcase their skills to someone. We don't have to sign the guy, or get anything for him. His worth would be making our guards stronger using his hunger to impress someone.

Re: Diener out indefinately

You know what? At this point I really don't care if jamaal plays or not. He obviously wouldn't have the burden of knowing he has to carry the team and i believe the reduced 3rd string role is maybe what he needs. I think its silly to bring in ANOTHER point gaurd when we are paying one to sit at home. He doesn't have to play big minutes. And besides, it can only help his trade value. I'm not sure how hyped teams are about trading for a player that has been sitting on his @$$ for the past 4 months. Or perhaps with deiner going down it will prompt bird to take the trade that he said "would cost to much." All the sudden it seems we're not quite as deep at point as originally thought....

If the Pacers want to see me caring about Pacer basketball, let alone buying any tix this season, they better not backtrack on Tinsley being done as a Pacer. Commitment to the future to me means the Pacers leaving Tinsley in the rearview mirror.

-Bball

Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

Re: Diener out indefinately

Earl Calloway? I remember he played well for us during summer league. I don't remember if he signed with anybody or if he went overseas. If he's available, why not bring him in for camp? He already knows everybody and the system.

Re: Diener out indefinately

Earl Calloway? I remember he played well for us during summer league. I don't remember if he signed with anybody or if he went overseas. If he's available, why not bring him in for camp? He already knows everybody and the system.

Re: Diener out indefinately

Re: Diener out indefinately

At this point i could see how it is nearly impossible to allow tinsley to play. It will make bird look horrible sor saying all offseason that tinsley i gone and then allowing him to play now. I was just saying that is is obvious that the team is in a completeley different direction. I don't see how it would be possible for tinsley to poison the team at this point. But for PR purposes i agree it is impossible to bring him back now.

Diener out indefinitely; Davis rejoins O'Brien

With Travis Diener out indefinitely due to lingering pain in his left foot, the Pacers will be on the lookout for a third point guard to help get them through training camp and the preseason.

Coach Jim O'Brien said Diener would be "down a significant time … he might be out 4-6 weeks. We might have to look at bringing in another point guard to make sure our practices flow."

Andre Owens, who spent last season on the roster, is not an option; he wasn't particularly effective as the third guard and is currently playing with Red Star Belgrade in Serbia. Neither is Jamaal Tinsley.

Diener had surgery to remove bone spurs from his left foot last May. He joined the team for part of a full-court scrimmage in Tuesday's practice but his foot did not respond well.

"He had way more pain than we anticipated he would," O'Brien said. "If he doesn't rest it, the problem could end up in a fracture and we just don't want that to happen."

Davis Hopes Reunion Revives NBA Career

Josh Davis had his best NBA season playing for O'Brien in Philadelphia in 2004-05.

"I think it was his only year, wasn't it?" O'Brien said with a laugh.

A rugged 6-8 forward from Wyoming, Davis appeared in 42 games with the 76ers that season, averaging 2.8 points and 1.9 rebounds. He has bounced around extensively since. By his count, he's played for 13 teams in six years, including teams in Moscow and the Ukraine.

With his wife expecting a child in late November, however, Davis opted to remain in the U.S. rather than return to Europe this season. That led him back to O'Brien.

"He's a very good 3-point shooter and a very good rebounder," said O'Brien, "and if you try to get the ball in the paint, he's going to have a collision with you and that's the type of person I want around this basketball team."

Davis said his approach to the game mixes well with O'Brien's style.

"His defensive philosophy is to keep the ball out of the paint, no matter what," Davis said. "That's my job, so that's what I do. If somebody comes in I'm going to come at them with elbows and I'll usually take a beating but so will they."

"They've got to make a trade with at least two or three guys and not get anybody back," Davis said. "In NBA business terms, it's a long-shot but for me this is coming back, getting some good workouts and helping Jim out. I'll go into the D-League if I get cut. If not, I'll be happy to stay on and help the team any way I can."

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This sucks .. I hope Diener can get his foot rehabbed .. I enjoy watching him play , and the spark he provides for us.

Re: Diener out indefinitely; Davis rejoins O'Brien

Are you a Ninja Turtle?

Sweet...

Anyway, I don't know much about this Davis guy, but I just hate to see Travy down like that. He is a sparkplug, but I don't know what kind of impact he will have on the team if any this season. I really hope he doesn't become trade bait.

Re: Diener out indefinitely; Davis rejoins O'Brien

Anyway, I don't know much about this Davis guy, but I just hate to see Travy down like that. He is a sparkplug, but I don't know what kind of impact he will have on the team if any this season. I really hope he doesn't become trade bait.

LOL nah , I just saw the picture and thought it was humorous...

I agree ...

I am on the Dienermobile, and would be upset if he were traded.
I sure hope he does get some minutes though when he does play..
At least 15 minutes per game and I would be happy .
As much as I like Jack , and the skills he brings to the table , I would honestly rather see Travis outplay him for more backup minutes at the point..and Jack pick up a small portion of his minutes at the 2 .. but that's just the Diener fan in me. lol

I think Diener has EARNED at LEAST 15 mpg for pulling through for us in the 2nd half of the season last year.... providing he keeps improving..and showing everyone he is earning them.

Last edited by Kemo; 10-02-2008 at 04:13 AM.

"They want to be famous. We want to be champions. They want to be rappers and backup dancers. We want to play football." - T.J. Ward, Denver Broncos

Re: Diener out indefinately

Here is my honest opinion. I think if the Deiner injury will keep him out for several months I think it would be in our best interest to CUT HIM. It eliminates our need for cutting that 16th player.

I know we will be looking at trading Tinlsey and opening up a roster spot at the same time. I could truly see a deal with Miami now, where they bring in Banks. I am not a Banks fan but I could see that happening. We trade Tinsley, Baston, and Williams for Udonis and Banks. Then we cut Deiner (only because he is in his final year and its guaranteed money for him) for Croshere. Deiner is a great guy don't get me wrong, but if he is going to be too injured to be effective then we NEED a healthy body. Bringing in Croshere without having to cut loose McRoberts or Graham could be the ideal situation.

Graham WILL NOT get cut. He has the upside as a scorer and McRoberts would get cut before he would.

Re: Diener out indefinately

Here is my honest opinion. I think if the Deiner injury will keep him out for several months I think it would be in our best interest to CUT HIM. It eliminates our need for cutting that 16th player.

I know we will be looking at trading Tinlsey and opening up a roster spot at the same time. I could truly see a deal with Miami now, where they bring in Banks. I am not a Banks fan but I could see that happening. We trade Tinsley, Baston, and Williams for Udonis and Banks. Then we cut Deiner (only because he is in his final year and its guaranteed money for him) for Croshere. Deiner is a great guy don't get me wrong, but if he is going to be too injured to be effective then we NEED a healthy body. Bringing in Croshere without having to cut loose McRoberts or Graham could be the ideal situation.

Graham WILL NOT get cut. He has the upside as a scorer and McRoberts would get cut before he would.

First, this is not Diener's last year. He has a player option for next season of $1.7mm.

Second, I think it would be a foolish overreaction to his current injury to pursue this. Indefinitely doesn't mean he's out for the year, it means indefinitely. It could be a week, it could be a month. It could be a year, but I seriously doubt that's what the Pacers are expecting. For all of his limitations, Diener certainly has demonstrated enough utility as an NBA player to be assigned a more secure spot on this roster than Graham, McRoberts, and Croshere (at this stage of his career). You could make a solid argument that he should make the team ahead of Baston and Shawne Williams, as well, regardless of his injury status.

Regarding the Miami deal, it's still not the Pacers that have to be convinced. In your scenario, Miami is giving up the best, most reliable player (Haslem) and taking back the worst contract (Tinsley). Neither Baston nor Williams will be viewed as incentive ("sweetener") by Miami. Also, since Tinsley makes $2.8mm more than Banks in 2010-2011, it hurts their plan for 2010 cap space. They might look on it more favorably if it was Foster instead of Baston/Williams, and even more favorably if it was additionally Blount instead of Haslem, but it's still really unlikely.

EDIT: Regarding Graham, I'm fairly certain that the reason they picked up his option was because he was cheap and a relatively known quantity. You have to remember that at that time, they were right up against the Tax, and were looking at having to sign 2-3 guys at the min to fill out their roster. Had they known that they would've made the JO and Rush/Jack trades, filling out their roster, reducing their payroll, and adding Brandon Rush (at Graham's position), I think it's highly likely that they would not have picked his option. In other words, signing him was a matter of convenience, rather than any high expectations about his ability to develop into a serious NBA player. While I do believe that he has the edge over McBob (certainly) and Croshere (probably), he is very much on the bubble.