Chairman says Texas CPS workers mistreated FLDS

Comments

Cps is totally corrupt! Period!! There must be Due Process when you deprive
someone of their child or property!

Anonymous

Jan. 20, 2009 4:34 p.m.

How shall we start a coalition to abolish the Child exPloitation disService
agencies?

I'm in.

Before we drink

Jan. 13, 2009 7:16 a.m.

. . . the kool-aid with FLDS trolls, remember what this article was all about --
some of the workers called in by CPS as an emergency measure because of the
magnitude of the situation CPS encountered upon its entry into YFZ proved to be
less than stellar performers.

OK. We all agree that's bad. That is
not to say, however, that CPS was wrong to intervene, or that the FLDS were not
-- and are not -- abusing their kids by subjecting them to an oppressive and
immoral lifestyle.

They are.

And the emergency was
created, not by a false report, but by the dangerous and immoral leadership and
lifestyle the FLDS still, for the most part, defend.

It's unfortunate
that the FLDS children, the actual innocent victims of both the FLDS and those
few incompetent CPS caregivers, are still largely unprotected.

Sandra

Jan. 13, 2009 6:48 a.m.

It is sad that cps can just walk in and distroy people lives like they do. Right
here in Brown County there are over 1600 chidren in foster care and 54% was put
there by one tripping cps worker. I would like to know if there is a way to stop
these cruel people from kidnapping children from their parents. Cps workers lie
to you and make false documents so they can do whatever they want to do. When
you go to court you dont even get to defend yourself but cps sure has a lawyer
sitting on thier side. These people are heartless and all they think about is
the money they get from it. They remove children because of allegation. Dont
even get to prove you are innocent. Cps will lie and get the cops to come to
your house and break in if you dont answer you door.The power tripping cps
worker has so much animosity against everyone. I would like to know how to stop
these evil people?

LaVista Gossett

Aug. 26, 2008 10:25 p.m.

I'm on the other side of the spectrum. Because of complaints, I've had children
removed from my care. I've experienced first hand the abuse of athority by CPS.
Someone should hold them accountable for their actions.

Harrison Mullins

July 10, 2008 2:42 p.m.

I think the cps and is the worst goverment orgnation known to man or woman I
think most of its employes on nothingmore or less than a bunch ol liers and
cheats.

megansdad

July 4, 2008 6:27 p.m.

absolute power corrupts, absolutely

I fought and won, they have
qualified immunity and can do whatever they want to anyone. Many of you will be
subject to them as you argue with a teacher at school or disagree with a doctor
on care. I soon found out that mandatory reporters are also given immunity. My
children still fear them and we work every day to give them a stable life.

Why?

June 26, 2008 8:39 a.m.

Why are government agencies given immunity? Those who are in government
positions and who abuse the constitutional rights of others should be given a
greater punishment!

It looked like CPS decided what they saw at this
ranch even before they went in there.

PhookCPS

June 25, 2008 3:58 a.m.

I have 11 videos of CPS visiting my home and completely violating my 4th and
14th amendment rights, I have court documents showing they falsified medical
records, falsified a warrant, and i have recorded phone coversations where the
fbsS worker blatantly lied, as well as the fbss supervisor extorting me.

apparently, the constitution of the united states is worthless.

CPS is a state agency, which is bound by federal laws, however, cps seems to
make their OWN laws.

CPS wishes to settle out of court with me, I
prefer to make a precedence case in the supreme court, and smear them all over
the news, then start a coalition to abolish this agency.

Ted

June 21, 2008 10:00 p.m.

CPS is just getting more bold at what they normally do to smaller families.

They treated my family similarly, and my lawyer advised me to cooperate
while they kidnap my daughter because they could otherwise retaliate by
kidnapping my younger son, and there would be no chance any case would be
resolved before she turned 18. It didn't matter how well we'd raised them, or
that my daughter was already advanced in college math before being college age,
or that we'd been officially recognized by congress for the children's
accomplishments the past couple of years. All that matters to them is their own
(paid-off) "therapist's professional" opinions.

That was quite a
shock to me, who had always believed in the "liberty and justice for all" that
our forefathers laid down their lives for. Maybe we'd be as good off under some
other totalitarian regime if this is not stopped. So let's stop it. I say ask
our politicians to show who they'll support - families and freedom, or a
nationally supported multi-billion-dollar kidnapping ring. Only vote for those
who will support our true freedom (from homeland threats like corrupt CPS
agents).

Stop Child exPloitation disService now!

Your
neighborhood next?

Bartleby

June 10, 2008 10:48 p.m.

Social worker charged with false report by MARY MUSICStaff Writer

PRESTONSBURG A criminal summons was issued Wednesday for a social
services worker charged with making a false report against his clients.Floyd County Chris Newsome now faces a class A misdemeanor charge of falsely
reporting an incident after an investigation by the Prestons-burg Police
Department ended Wednesday.The investigation, which began earlier this
month after Auxier residents Richard and Kimberly Hardy produced an audio
recording of Newsome during a regularly scheduled visit of their son, sparked
several other complaints from the community against the Floyd County social
services agency.

Gold

May 27, 2008 8:00 p.m.

To Richard, No, this was not a brochure ware comment as you say. It is
CPS's job to protect the child. As stated, if there is "reason to believe" the
child/children are removed. I have seen first hand children saved. I have seen
children returned back to parents in a short time from 1 day to 18 months or
more. Every case is different.

No-name(sorry) stated alot of
comments that are facts. Maybe you should read them Richard.

I will
ask this again. I thought more than one wife is illegal in the USA. Someone
correct me if I am wrong.

No Name (Sorry)

May 26, 2008 12:46 p.m.

"Richard" cont.

Everyone wants to pass judgement and lay the blame
on someone, but nobody offers an alternative or offers solutions to fix the
problems. I'm not say that CPS is perfect, but the REALITY is that CPS is all
we have right now (better than nothing).

When a child is being
abused and cops make an arrest, do you think the cops pick this child up and
care for him? NO, CPS does. It is CPS's responsiblity to ensure the child is no
longer placed at risk of being abused again. The suspect will get out of jail
sooner or later and CPS has to find out if the mother/caregiver/guardian has
shown that she will be protective of the child when the abuser gets out.
This type of investigations can take a while and the harsh reality is that CPS
has TIMEFRAMES, cops don't. REALITY is that abuse is a pattern, a mother
who was sexually abused will partner up with a male who will abuse her and her
child. You can arrest the abuser but mother will end up again with someone just
like him again and the abuse continues.

No Name (Sorry)

May 26, 2008 9:39 a.m.

For "Richard" continued. Do you suggest that CPS just leave the child
with the family until the investigation if finished, thereby leaving the child
at risk of further abuse. Reality is that the family (suspect) would apologize,
convince the child it won't happen again and to say nothing. Children want to
protect their parents.

CPS's only concern is that of the CHILD, the
CHILD who is too afraid or who doesn't even understand that what the child is
being subjected to is abuse. Many children living in abusive homes don't even
understand that they are being abused, they believe it's normal. I seen
children taken from VERY ABUSIVE HOMES and crying to be left with the ABUSERS.
This is all the child knows, all the child has ever grown up with.

The problem with this is that policies and procedures get put into place to
handle situations (regardless of actual abuse) the same way. If CPS treats
abuse differently from one family to the next, attorneys would cry foul. 80% of
what CPS investigates is RULED OUT, that tells you that 80% of the time, CPS is
wasting their time. Time that is taken away from real cases of abuse.

No Name (Sorry)

May 26, 2008 9:14 a.m.

For "Richard." You have some keen issues brought to mind but I have to
point this out, CPS 1st priority is the protection of the CHILD, not the family
or parents. 1st, do your homework; if a child is being abused, it
does not automatically mean the child is "Removed" from the family, CPS has to
first find or attempt to find a family member to place the child with while the
investigation is ongoing. The reason for this is to place the least amount of
emotional trauma on the child. But if during the course of the investigation
the investigator finds out or suspects family knew about the abuse, did nothing
to stop it or has shown a pattern of being non-protective, CPS will then remove
the child. I have to also mention that CPS attempts to come to an
agreement with the parents (and person who accepts placement of the child) to
take steps to ensure a investigation is conducted without interference and the
child is not at risk of being abused while the investigation is ongoing.
Think about what would happen if CPS investigates, suspects abuse may be
occurring, does nothing and then the child dies.

Richard

May 25, 2008 3:37 a.m.

Watcher wrote: "I don't consider leaving children with abusive parents
until the parents have been tried and convicted of abuse to be an American
tradition or constitutional."

I see, due process is not needed in the
USA. Has it occurred to you that the reason we charge, then present evidence,
then arrive at a deliberated verdict, is to protect the innocent? You just
decided they were abused (and it must have been some awkward definition you
used), and suggested punishing the victims who might not even be victims. If it
were your way, why go to court at all. Just accuse, take what you want, and let
the wastrels languish in jail.

Watcher also wrote: "We're not certain
that all of the children actually belong to parents living at the ranch, so the
state first has to determine the legal parents of each child before the children
can be returned."

So, they can take your children for weeks to
determine whether they belong to you, before they are returned? Am I detecting a
neuro-disease here, or is this the New Logic?

Richard

May 25, 2008 3:27 a.m.

Obvious wrote: "The numerous posts on this site supporting the FLDS do not
reflect the attitudes around the country. The public sentiment is overwhelmingly
in favor of reigning in these polygamists. "

Well, I live in
Washington (we already had our CPS nightmare a years ago), and I although I do
not comport with FLDS beliefs, I thoroughly support them.

However, if
you think this action is lawfully about 'reigning in those polygamists," then it
is probably more important to reign in you. I say this because you indicate a
willingness to deny due process to others, a keystone of tyranny.

Richard

May 25, 2008 3:21 a.m.

ING wrote: "I can't help imagining my own children, 9 and 6 years old, in such a
situation. I don't think they'll ever be in that situation, and I would never do
anything to put them in it..."

Be careful your confidence, many
(maybe even many on this list), never would do anything to put themselves or
their children in that situation, but they still found themselves in a such a
situation. I wouldn't believe it could happen, until it happened to me.

That is why the reaction is so visceral.

Richard

May 25, 2008 3:18 a.m.

The Texan wrote: "Hey Grandma (obviosu FLDS poser), abuse was found, that why
the courts ordered the action they did. You have dementia or something."

Yeah, the appeals court rescinding that court order must be an FLDS
poser as well...

Would you like an aisle or window seat in the
sanitorium, Texan?

Richard

May 25, 2008 1:50 a.m.

gold wrote: "CPS first priority is to protect the unproteced, and to find a
permanent situation be it with parents, relatives, kinship, adoptive
placement"

Sounds like brochure-ware to me (unless they are
protecting themselves). Is this why you think CPS has justification to violate
the law?

When you hear, "We're CPS and we're hear to protect you,"
be afraid, be very afraid!

No Name (Sorry)

May 22, 2008 9:59 p.m.

I am an Ex-CPS Investigator. I have worked Criminal (as a COP)and Civil(as
CPS)Investigations; I'm still a Cop. I want everyone to understand CPS IS
NEEDED. If you have seen that things that I have seen you would understand
this. The majority of children who are killed or abused; the suspect is a a
FAMILY member. This is just the way it is, I don't like it, but its REALITY.
There were times I thanked God that I wasn't carrying my firearm when talking to
people who confessed to killing or abusing their children (it is a very
depressing job and takes it toll); 16 child deaths total. It's one of the
reason I left. I have worked investigations where I know I saved children, but
on the same hand, I worked investigations where I know deep down inside I was
doing more harm than good for the child and family. I say this with an emphasis
on the difference between a criminal investigation and a civil. Law Enforcement
has been around for centuries, CPS in Texas has been here maybe 40 years?
Hardly anybody quits Law Enforcement, CPS has a turnover rate of 54%; see what
I'm getting at?

Jim Green

May 22, 2008 9:39 p.m.

Sweet justice. As I told you in my earlier entry, the entire case against the
FLDS was and is a scam. And those of you who watched CNN tonight now know I was
telling you the truth.

I made only one mistake. There were not three
girls under 18 which were pregnant. There were just two and none below 18 have
given birth at all. So, the FLDS were correct all along. They do not marry off
minors.

One girl is seventeen; one girl is sixteen, though the 16
year old says she is 18. None the less, it is not against Texas law to be 16 and
married or 16 and pregnant.

The State swore under oath that 31 minors
were pregnant. Now if you notice, my entry was dated in April. Do you honestly
think I was the only one to know this information?

Anonymous

May 22, 2008 7:37 p.m.

Whatever is going on with flds is wrong. What is worse is the Texas cps! I
should know. My daughter was taken away all based on a lie, a well documented
lie! They took my daughter away. After a lot of heartache and money she is
back with us. I have no history of violence or abusive behavior. A therapist
was fired. A school headmaster lost his job. A teacher was fired. A school
administrator was demoted. A social worker was transferred. A social worker
was fired. The report was made up. The report cited a doctor who doesn't
exist. The state's lawyer was caught in a lie. Child protective services is
broken. While the protection of children is necessary, and their goals and
objectives may be noble, reality is such that they do more harm than good.

jennifer

May 22, 2008 6:10 p.m.

Texas cps and police officers from the fortworth police department came to my
house and removed 3 of my children and placed them out of state with a convicted
child abuser after i told them my Children were not to Leave the state of Texas!
Texas Cps and the fortworth police department removed my children 2yrs ago and
the Tarrant County DAs office, OAG office of Texas and The courthouse in
downtown Fortworth Texas can not find any records saying cps and the police
removed my kids!

Gramma

May 22, 2008 12:57 a.m.

And one thing people can do to help is to donate to the litigation fund for FLDS
- go the Captive FLDS Children website, and give whatever you can. Also, sign
the Petition that is online to Free the FLDS Children. And let your elected
officials know, today, that if they don't speak out NOW against this abomination
of the justice system, you will NOT vote for them.

Oh, and boycott
Texas -

Gramma

May 22, 2008 12:50 a.m.

Gold, please just google "CPS" and "big business" or "CPS" and "organized crime"
or "CPS" and "gestapo". Read some of the truth about these pack of sadistic
thugs who steal children and babies for money and power.

Where did
you get YOUR info that there WAS abuse?

Maybe you've seen a case,
or even two, where it appeared that CPS helped. I'm sceptical. I've read case
after case after case where they have done everything from lie, create false
reports, bully, intimidate, abuse, sexually abuse, to murder (PBS did a story on
a CPS worker who became a foster parent and murdered, and was convicted of
murdering a poor little girl - the CPS worker / foster mom duct taped the little
girl to a chair in the basement and she died, I believe, from suffocation.)
There are many other stories out there about sick, twisted, perverted CPS
workers. Power corrupts, and CPS workers have more power than God and Satan put
together, at least that's the way it feels when you're a wrongfully accused
parent. Please don't believe all the Oprah / Nancy Grace crap that you hear /
read.

Concerned for Familes

May 21, 2008 7:16 p.m.

If you have ever had dealings with Texas CPS you will soon realize that their
sole purpose it to ruin your family and your life. There are no real check and
balances system for CPS they are always in charge. Along with many counties
that have paid Attorney ad idem on their payroll which is a direct conflict of
interest. It soon becomes obvious that the attorney representing your child are
actually looking only to keep their job and do not have the real interest of any
child in mind. CPS will not listen to any parent under suspect nor will they
listen or contact anyone that might have first hand knowledge of your child or
not. They PAY WITH YOUR TAX DOLLARS TO KEEP CONTRACTORS FOR EVALUATIONS for you
and your child in business. CPS IS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL IN TEXAS. Now
problems in San Angelo because the are a high profile news story is moving much
faster than any other case on their current files leaving all other cases in
limbo.

To Gramma, I do have heart and brains. Where did you get your info that
there was no abuse/neglect? So, did they rule out all of the findings? I made a
comment on the neutral side and you taking it out of context. I have
seen first hand children saved from the hand of someone that took advantage of
them. CPS first priority is to protect the unproteced, and to find a permanent
situation be it with parents, relatives, kinship, adoptive placement.

Mother

May 21, 2008 12:39 p.m.

I think this is horrible and CPS is to blame and should be held responsible. I
dont blame Texas in general. There are many people who are born and raised in
Texas and are very respectful and honest. This whole situatin has reflected on
them unfairly. CPS is like this all over the country. This paticular tragedy is
a lose/lose situation. Tax payers will pay. The children are paying now and so
are the parents.

Grandpa Phil

May 21, 2008 7:11 a.m.

Caren, CPS is "protected" from lawsuits due to their status as a government
agency. They can only be sued with their permission. Not likely that is going
to happen.

4COMMONSENSE

May 20, 2008 10:10 p.m.

Grandpa Phil,Your post means alot, considering you have first hand
knowledge of the inner workings of CPS and family court.

4COMMONSENSE

May 20, 2008 10:10 p.m.

G comment - the problem with your rationale is that I really don't care
whether CPS found evidence of abuse.____________________________________________________You don't care ?
It's ok that based on someone's opionion that these girls/women were
repressed,etc that 464 children are uprooted and placed with total strangers ? I
have concerns about any children you may have based on these screwed up
beliefs.

Gramma

May 20, 2008 8:40 a.m.

To Gold: Do some research on CPS - they are a brutal organization wherever you
find them.

THERE WAS NO ABUSE FOUND, AND NO EVIDENCE OF ABUSE
FOUND, AT FLDS.

When are you people going to get that through your
heads?

The FLDS children should have been given back LONG ago, and
never taken in the first place. What is happening right now, EVEN IF IT WERE
LEGAL, would be the most inhumane, brutal thing!

Have some heart and
brains! This is so obviously a sickening bullying brutal action of the State
and CPS. Anyone who can't see that is so totally brainwashed it's pathetic.

DO SOME RESEARCH INTO CPS! THEY ARE EVIL INCARNATE!

Gramma

May 20, 2008 12:20 a.m.

CPS should be abolished. If there is a suspicion of abuse, it should be treated
just like any other crime. Due process and the presumption of innocence should
not be thrown out. People need to stop buying into the idea that there is abuse
everywhere, and that just because some kid has a bruise or is crying, they must
be getting abused. We have been totally brainwashed by shows like Oprah, and
the media, who see abuse everywhere. If parents are having problems, they
should be helped. Too many parents have lost their children, merely because
they are poor. All the money that is spent on government mooches could have
paid for all these families to live like royalty. The government is the true
evil here, for it is what is behind CPS. Remember, CPS is just an arm of the
government. Demand that your elected official abolish CPS or immediately make
reforms that take away their abusive power. Demand also that such things as
anonymous accusations be outlawed, and that the penalty for a false accusation
be jail time!

Caren

May 19, 2008 2:10 p.m.

If there are so many victims of CPS isn't it time for a massive class action law
suit.You should all contact the attorneys of FLDS and team up. Or have
they made class action lawsuits illegal already ...The big surge in kidnapping
came after the Welfare reform bill so most of the victims still are incarcerated
someplace. It is about time to get them released.

Deborah Bratcher

May 19, 2008 2:06 p.m.

CPS in Texas has been out of control for years! They believe they have
"magical" powers of discernment, making SNAP judgements against people and then
only changing their tactics when high-powered attorneys are brought in. It's
anti-American,and, as so many before me have pointed out, CPS plans are way more
harmful to children than the parents the children are removed from were. I hope
to have a say to Gov. Perry, too, if a real, sincere probe into the constant
misconduct of various CPS offices is undertaken.

gold

May 19, 2008 12:59 p.m.

Being a foster adoptive parent for 15 plus years, I can see that cps has to
investigate by law. If a child is in danger, or reason to believe of
abuse/neglect the child is removed. It is up to the judge to make the final
decision how long the children stay in care or go home. I thought by law ,having
many wives is not legal in the USA. If fathers were infact causing harm to the
children the children would be removed from the home. If the mothers of the
children were aware of this , they are as quilty. As for the cps workers being
rude, etc. It is like many situations, there are good workers, and not so good.
Same goes for teachers, police, etc.

survivor of cps

May 19, 2008 8:53 a.m.

when I think of cps, I think of the Stanford prison experiment of 1971.

survivor of cps

May 19, 2008 8:22 a.m.

what cps is doing in Texas is what they do all over our country. Every child
taken into thier protective custody is victimized or revictimized by an agency
full of people trying to justify what they do, so that they can sleep at night.
cps is in denial regarding thier own mental health and is in desparate need of
intervention. They themselves have become the neglectful and abusive guardian.
The only way to change them, is to challenge and confront them,which is what has
been happening across America IF you will just see. The time has come, for our
nation to TRUELY be made aware of the unredeamable disfunctionality of cps.
Because, what happened to my family and the families of half a million children
every year, and now FDLS families can happen to YOU. If you don't believe me,
try refusing to send your kindergarden child to the dentist and see how close
cps gets to your door.

Gramma

May 19, 2008 1:09 a.m.

Wise decision, Tina.

Read the Frontline segment on Logan Marr, the
5 year old who was taken from her "unfit" mother, and given to the foster
"mother" / CPS worker. This case reveals much about CPS and the kind of people
who have power there.

All it takes is one (anonymous) phone call.
A vindictive ex, a jealous co-worker, a creepy neighbour. There is no justice
in a court where one side (the government and CPS) have all the power, and
everything is done in secrecy. If you do run into problems with CPS, don't meet
them without a (good) lawyer present, and (if state law permits it) tape record
everything that transpires between you, CPS, doctors, etc.

Read up
on your rights, and how to fight CPS, should that horrible day ever come to
pass.

If I was young again, I would really think hard about having
children. I can't think of anything worse than losing them to CPS. But I'm
hopeful that things will change, given enough awareness. The human race has
much goodness, unfortunately, right now there are a lot of evil people with
power.

Tina

May 18, 2008 2:51 p.m.

Gramma, not sure about Boycotting Texas, but my husband came home Friday and
told me he was offered a job in Texas. I told him no amount of money is going
to make me move to Texas after all of this. There are 49 other states in the
union - he can pick another one.

I'm not saying there was not abuse
in the FLDS compound, but I am NOT going to live in a state where the state
government representatives hold adults as minors until they give birth to snatch
their kids or any of the other things I have heard about their CPS.

I
don't have children yet, but that does not matter - not moving to Texas.

Gramma

May 18, 2008 8:53 a.m.

And by the way, quit repeating the LIE that there was abuse at the FLDS ranch.

CPS already admitted, there was NO EVIDENCE OF ABUSE. But there
sure will be abuse to come for those poor little FLDS children, given the
statistics on what brutalities occur in foster homes. Drug addiction, suicide,
incarceration, homelessness, this is what they have to look forward to.

Before you so quickly condone the actions of the State and CPS, you might want
to do a bit of research and think for yourself. After all, if you really care
about the "best interests of the children" you would think long and hard, and do
a bit of research, before you so blindly accept what the government and their
thugs foist off on you.

BOYCOTT TEXAS!

Gramma

May 17, 2008 8:53 p.m.

Boycott Texas. It's the only language they understand.

JT

May 17, 2008 2:10 p.m.

What's the Difference between CPS and the Gestapo? When the Gestapo sent people
to the concentration camp, they kept families together.- Robert T. McQuaid

Justthefactsmaam

May 17, 2008 7:53 a.m.

You do know, don't you, before this is all said and done, Texas Taypayers will
be writng a check over to the FLDS for SEVERAL BILLION DOLLARS.

You
watch and see. There won't even be one conviction on underage marriage. Prior to
September 2005, girls could be formally OR informally married (common law)
married at 14 *with* their parent's permission.

After September 2005,
it was 16.

When you look at the 2007 Bishop's census, not even one
marriage violated the above. Some came close, but none violated.

Regarding the bigamy prosecutions, if Texas is stupid enough to bring those,
it will be overturned by SCOTUS using Lawrence vs Texas language of "consensual
sex between ADULTS."

Under Texas law, these 14 to 16 year old girls
were ADULTS.

Holm was refused to be heard by SCOTUS because Ruth
Stubbs was legally a minor under Utah law.

Oops!

Don't
mess with Texas.

Leave it alone.

It'll mess its own
drawers.

bereaved

May 17, 2008 7:52 a.m.

Well I am one who had the same done to me the more people talk about how abusive
cps is the more powerful they become. I am so overwhelmed on how they are able
to get away with what they get away with.I believe that so many of them are un
wed and do not have children of there own and are able to tell you how to raise
your children.The gov. is so out of it that they do not even know what is going
on.So instead of us talking about it lets do something.Tell me police are here
to protect and serve right, and they have to abide by the law well what makes
cps so different. People think that if they pick up the phone and make a call
they are saving a child. well let me tell you the child or children are in more
danger when cps is notified so before making that call think to yourself am i
doing good or bad,also ask yourself if you have children would i want this to
happen to me!

mypc46

May 16, 2008 11:26 p.m.

Just as i thought..no one saw the photos of the ranch from the air. There are at
least 12 houses and a number of mobile homes. Not everyone was living in a
single residence. Since some men had 1 wife they were probably in the mobile
homes.The men with many wives had a large house for all the members. Since when
is just FLDS the only religion brain washing kids. Italian mom and my dad had to
sign for kids to be raised catholic. Them folks really mess you up. And we all
force our views on our kids. After all why say to kids...because I said so!
Anyone raising a child has 5 years to mold that child into whatever they wish.
As I said return these families to the ranch and help them to change. CPS=
largest abuse warehouse. They are foaming at the mouth with the hopes of
adoption bonuses.

James Rich

May 16, 2008 8:15 p.m.

Just how long does it take to 'investigate' wether the original call was real or
false? My understanding is that it came from a black woman in colorado who has a
history of making crank calls.Where's the arrest? Where's the FOI forcing
CPS to reveal their phone records? Have these calls been traced? I think that
any 2 bit detective could figure this out in around 2 weeks - maximum.

Gramma

May 16, 2008 6:27 p.m.

CPS, the most corrupt, cruel, and powerful department of any government,
operates like this everywhere in the world. US, Canada, you name it - they
steal your children and you have no hope. Judges go along with them,
politicians, for the most part, don't care, or regurgitate the evil PR phrase
"in the best interests of the child". People have to unit and start a class
action lawsuit (I believe there is one in US already), and pressure their
politicians with petitions and so on. Don't vote for anyone who isn't going to
protect your rights as a parent, and ensure that your child or baby can't be
stolen.

ALL IT TAKES IS ONE ANONYMOUS PHONE CALL - SOMETIMES EVEN
LESS. AND WHO IS TO SAY THAT THE SOCIAL WORKER THEMSELF WON'T BE THE ONE MAKING
THE "ANONYMOUS PHONE CALL."

G

May 16, 2008 1:16 p.m.

"You state that kids don't go to college, but I'm assuming that you realize they
grow up. And if either pregnant or brainwashed, they won't have a chance to go
to college."

Do you not realize how silly this exchange has
become when you state that the government can take children away because parents
don't send them to college?

I'd be laughing now if your views
weren't so disturbing. Maybe CPS should start taking children away from people
that make $20,000 a year or less, since they obviously can't afford college.

G comment - 1:32pm

May 16, 2008 9:53 a.m.

the problem with your rationale is that I really don't care whether CPS found
evidence of abuse. I care that the women and children are let out of that
compound so they have some options in life. It's unclear to me why you try to
impress with big words that most here do not understand (like "non-sequitirs",
which you misspelled, by the way, since I do understand it) when you could
simply speak in plain terms. You have yet to actually address the issue.
You state that kids don't go to college, but I'm assuming that you realize they
grow up. And if either pregnant or brainwashed, they won't have a chance to go
to college. So stop beating around the bush and trying to impress with big
words. Try actually addressing the issue of servitude being forced upon these
women and children. That is, after all, the big issue. That's why the children
were taken. The most ironic part is that you FLDS don't even realize that is
the issue. You think it's about underage brides. lol - wake up. Free the
women and children and you can live as you like.

Wanda Farmer

May 16, 2008 12:44 a.m.

This is true about the case workers, And if you say something to them. they will
tell more lies about you. I live in Milam Co. TX Population about 25,000. Cps
took more then 400 children into foster care last year. Only 120 of them are
with family. My granddaughter and grandson, are apart of them. Based on false
accusations. These case workers don't care about the children, they just want
the money. We didnt even get to talk in court. Cps told their story, and that
was the way it was. We had no money for an attorney.We were not told our rights.
They retaliate if you complain. If you don't stay quiet, they threaten to send,
your children some were else. And we wont be able to find them. You just need
to sign your rights away. So they can adopt them out. For the money. Our
children are being sold to the highest bidder, the government. There are 6
million people in the US saying that cps stold their children and know one can
do anything about it. Thank You W. F.

G

May 15, 2008 1:59 p.m.

"As for the poor writing skills of the Mental Health workers, they are probably
drawn from the same pool as the CPS workers. Few of the CPS workers we have come
into contact with over the years have the comprehensive skills to grasp a
technical concept such as legal rights and almost none possess the compassion to
look inside an issue and weigh the consequences of their abuse. Their reading
comprehension skills are minimal and sometimes laughable. That is sad."

In many states all you need to be an entry-level social worker is a B.S.
degree in anything. State agencies like CPS and many others soak up the
graduates that find that their peace studies or feminist theory degrees don't
get them far in the private sector and whose records don't qualify them for the
graduate schools. They get decent salaries, good benefits, and employment for
life since it's very difficult to fire state workers. And they get to impose
their will on others.

Antizelot

May 15, 2008 1:49 p.m.

of course I am against young girls being forced to marry if they don't want to.
They could have gone in there and asked them if they were imprisoned by their
husbands. Not one person from the YFZ said thanks for rescuing me. There were no
victims there until they all had their children kidnapped. Maybe they were mad
at the women for wanting to go home with their kids instead of renouncing their
husbands.

I don't see how a young girl getting pregnant by a boy her
own age who has no means to support her is good. "Safe sex" is more of a benefit
to men than women. It is nothing more than unpaid prostitution. It causes
emotional damage in young women as they travel though numerous meaningless sex
partners. Men want sex. Women want love, stability, and a safe place to raise
their children.

Even if the Mormons paired off teenagers I'll bet
they would have still been treated the same.

Grandpa Phil

May 15, 2008 1:39 p.m.

Magnus, that is just the kind of eye opening people need right now. You are
correct of course. Sooner or later, most, if not all of these children will
have to return to parental custody. The State can threaten and wail and knash
teeth all they want but, sooner or later, the reasons for keeping them away from
their parents will dissolve like sand castles at high tide. When that happens,
the State will find out that they have only reinforced in the children what
their parents have been telling them - that the authorities out there are the
bad guys. I agree with them; the authorities in Texas ARE the bad guys and, if
I lived in Texas, you can bet I would be making considerable preparations to
make sure this could not happen to my family. CPS only has themselves to blame.
Their worst fears will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. (Sorry, I just have
to chuckle when I think about all you folks out there who don't believe in
prophecies.)

G

May 15, 2008 1:32 p.m.

To the poster at 8:33:

"what I said isnt practiced every day in
the bible belt. Those kids go to college and are free to choose their path.
These kids are locked behind a guard tower. See the difference?"

I've
lived in the Bible Belt all my life, I think I know how things go here. Yes,
many religious groups teach that non-protestants will go to Hell when they die,
and generally threaten their own children with the same. That isn't conducive to
producing well-balanced children, but not illegal nonetheless.

As for
college, that issue is completely irrelevant because "kids" do not generally go
to college. College is for adults (18+) and is not a parenting issue any more
than military enlistment is ("Kids" that old are fighting in Iraq right now.
Call CPS.)

Why you pro-CPS types continue to resort to non-sequitirs
like this one is confounding since Texas insists that they have substantive
evidence that FLDS was doing something that was actually illegal and not
something that is merely disturbing to your own particular suburbanite,
soccer-mom ethos and therefore "bad parenting".

The world is a big
place, and not every good parent drives a minivan.

magnus

May 15, 2008 12:18 p.m.

It is my and every other parents God and State given right to teach my
children (or indoctrinate them) the way that I think is in their best interest.

There may not be a right way to handle a complicated situation like
this, but I think there is little question that this is the wrong way. I hope
and pray that justice when the dust settle that justice is served for everybody
involved here. Unfortunately justice isn't going to repair the damage done to
these kids.

I wonder if anyone at CPS ever considered the possible
outcomes of this situation? Maybe shortsightedness is just part of being a
Texan. I wonder if anybody ever thought about the high probability that if
these kids do go back to their families (which they probably will because the
state is running out of reasons to keep them) and they grow up continuing to be
"indoctrinated" with the teaching of their faith. How much MORE like will they
be to become MORE extreme in their distrust fo the government and MORE radical
in their separationest views.

Spam City would love to make everyone believe that the only supporters the FLDS
families have is other FLDS people. Hate to be the one to burst your bubble
Spam City but there are a LOT of us out here who see this for what it is. Under
the pretext of protecting the children from abuse, the State of texas has
perpetrated the worst case of abuse on a group of children in the history of the
United States - UNDER COLOR OF LAW. The illegal actions of CPS and the Sheriff
Dept. are actionable under 42 US Code, Sec 1983. The people may take their time
in figuring out what happened but, when the smoke and mirrors have cleared,
someone is going to pay dearly for treading on the rights of these families. If
there really was any child abuse, prosecute it. None of us has any problem with
that. As yet, we have yet to see any. All we hear is vague accusations and
innuendo and hearsay. Such things are only admisable in Kangaroo Courts. We
will wait and see how the hearings are handled and hope the theme song to CPT
Kangaroo isn't playing in the background.

Grandpa Phil

May 15, 2008 9:03 a.m.

Interloper, my wife and I served as foster parents to over 200 teenage foster
daughters in NC over a five year period. We have seen first-hand the abuses
that CPS has inflicted upon children and families in this State. Now we are
watching those same things happening in Texas. We are STILL waiting for the
"legal procedures involved in child custody cases" to become apparent. There do
not seem to be any in the Texas case. What you call a distraction and a
"tempest in a teapot" is nothing less than an attempt to minimalize the horrific
scope of State abuse in this case. It is called the exercise of unrighteous
dominion and CPS has honed it to a science.

As for the poor writing
skills of the Mental Health workers, they are probably drawn from the same pool
as the CPS workers. Few of the CPS workers we have come into contact with over
the years have the comprehensive skills to grasp a technical concept such as
legal rights and almost none possess the compassion to look inside an issue and
weigh the consequences of their abuse. Their reading comprehension skills are
minimal and sometimes laughable. That is sad.

To antizelot

May 15, 2008 8:35 a.m.

"Statutory rape laws are unconstitutional and are nothing but a tool custom made
to persecute religious responsible people and celebrate teenagers who fornicate
secretly in backseats of cars. Statutory rape laws don't stop teen pregnancies
and never will. That is what Abortions are for !!"

Yes, but there is
a major difference between teens who explore their sexuality--not with the best
results, sometimes--of their own free will and kids who are forced into
marriages with adults several times their age. None of the teens I work with
chose forty-year old men for their partners. I'm a high school teacher, and
there are plenty of teens having sex, but they have access to birth control.
FLDS kids do not. And they're told that if they don't submit to these older men
they're disobedient and bad and going to hell. What kind of life is that,
whether that's how you were raised or not?

To - G

May 15, 2008 8:33 a.m.

what I said isnt practiced every day in the bible belt. Those kids go to
college and are free to choose their path. These kids are locked behind a guard
tower. See the difference?Comparing these kids to those raised in a std
religious household is just ignorant.

Spam City

May 15, 2008 7:09 a.m.

I see the FLDS spammers were up late with their usual weak arguments about the
CPS trying to destroy their religion.

In reality, CPS is only trying
to prevent the FLDS from further abusing their children, but the FLDS don't see
anything wrong with abusing their children, so to them, this is all a giant
conspiracy to destroy their religion.

Whatever it takes, the FLDS
must be prevented from getting their kids back until they've agreed to abandon
their practice of forced underage marriages.

CPS insects

May 15, 2008 1:13 a.m.

First they take everything out of Rozitas apartment, so that well never learn
the truth of how all this started. They confiscate the mothers cellphones so
that there wont be a visual record of the children being ripped from their arms,
then they make social workers sign confidentiality agreements so that no one
will know how theyre mistreating their victims. They operate in the dark like
roaches, with all the morality of insects.

John

May 15, 2008 12:41 a.m.

How would you like it if your children were taken away because a neighbor down
the street abused a child? Why didn't they first investigate to find out who
was doing the abusing?

to psyche nurse

May 14, 2008 9:29 p.m.

Thank you, I work as a counselor and can't believe the damage cps has done to
these children affecting them the rest of their lives. There are abandonment
issues as a child cannot understand this cruelty of separation by the State. The
children need to be returned immediately, I wish we could drive an army in there
and pull the same act on CPS as they pulled on the FLDS.

Interesting to the Interloper.

May 14, 2008 9:28 p.m.

Tomorrow is another day. I'm beginning to wonder who is keeping all of this
hullabaloo going. I've yet to read anywhere but on this web site about the
letter to President Bush, the letters from the MHMR workers, etc.

I
stand by what I said earlier. MHMR staff do not have a leg to stand on.
Posters need to check their records also. I find it interesting that they did
not say how many workers were actually at the coliseum. Was it 9 complaints out
of 9 staff, or 9 complaints out of 100 staff?..We will probably never know that
one for sure.

Thomas

May 14, 2008 9:22 p.m.

The CPS continues on it way harrasing innocent parents and their children. CPS
has already acknowledged that one alleged child bride is an adult. What happens
if all these so-called child brides are actually adults?

Interloper

May 14, 2008 8:58 p.m.

This tempest in a teapot is a distraction that I am sure will fade since there
is no actual evidence of abuse of any of the FLDS guests. Based on the poor
reasoning, spelling and grammar errors of most of the MHMR workers, I do not
think they have qualifications to be making judgments about important issues
anyway. They were likely there to soothe the guests, a job that they obviously
failed in.

I look forward to the evidence being weighed and
individual child custody cases being resolved. But, that should be done with
deliberate speed so that youngsters are not returned to abusive FLDS members.

It saddens me that the degree of ignorance of some people in our
country is such that years after everyone should have learned people in the
condition Terri Schiavo was in have no brain functions beyond those provided by
the brain stem such as breathing, there are still folks incapable of grasping
something that easy to understand. Let's hope that the YFZ Ranch saga will
provide lasting understanding of why child sex abuse is unacceptable in our
society, and, the legal procedures involved in child custody cases.

antizelot

May 14, 2008 8:17 p.m.

Ive written a few angry letters and at least it will make you feel better if
nothing else. You should also write to your senators and tell them you are not
happy with your tax dollars being used to steal children from their families.
This problem is beyond just the Texas CPS it is happening in every state because
of financial incentives. As you have noticed the FBI has not stepped in to
protect the rights and well being of US citizens and frankly that scares me more
than the Texas authorities. The FLDS also has their own website where you can
contribute. But if Judges wont obey the law what good will hiring attorneys do ?

Unbelievable

May 14, 2008 7:10 p.m.

What can we do? We MUST do something. We cannot stand idly by and watch this
travesty go on. We must stand up for these children and save them from the
clutches of this horrible evil which is the Texas CPS. Can we contribute? Can
we write to Governor Perry? Will it do any good? This entire situation makes me
sick to my stomach. We MUST do something.

antizelot

May 14, 2008 6:43 p.m.

Statutory rape laws are unconstitutional and are nothing but a tool custom made
to persecute religious responsible people and celebrate teenagers who fornicate
secretly in backseats of cars. Statutory rape laws don't stop teen pregnancies
and never will. That is what Abortions are for !!

G

May 14, 2008 6:10 p.m.

"These parents were abusing these kids EVERY DAY!! By telling them that
everyone and everything outside the gates is evil, and if they leave they will
go to hell - and told that every day from the day they are born, by people they
trust - that's abuse. That's stealing their future - and I wouldn't wish that on
my worst enemy."

There's a slight problem with your
idea--namely that what you have just described is legal and practiced daily in
the Bible Belt and elsewhere.

CPS was wrong

May 14, 2008 6:05 p.m.

I agree. The CPS shouldn't have done what they did. But it's probably better
than my idea, which is to bulldoze all the walls and the guardtower and make the
kids go outside the compound 2 afternoons a week. Listen, people - these
children's rights were being STOMPED ON. Instead of being so concerned about
the parents rights, try (for once) to think of the children's rights to an open
and proserous future. If left alone in that compound, they were all destined to
be enslaved and have no hope for a future. Granted, they'd be happy, since
ignorance is bliss, but they could do great things in the real world, yet none
of them would have any chance at all. How many doctors, scientists, etc are in
ththose kids? We would never know.These parents were abusing these kids
EVERY DAY!! By telling them that everyone and everything outside the gates is
evil, and if they leave they will go to hell - and told that every day from the
day they are born, by people they trust - that's abuse. That's stealing their
future - and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

Dan

May 14, 2008 6:02 p.m.

I am grateful that some mental health personnel observed these things. When the
lawsuits begin, their testimony will give the FLDS folks some strong ammunition.
Texas is not the only state that has a problem. We had a daughter about 10
years ago that was acting out and was at our request, placed in foster care.
She was thrown out of the Foster parents car while traveling 35 mph and left by
the side of the road. A sweet couple came upon her and call us. She was
injuried with a several bumps on the head, arms, and legs. She was lucky. We
picked her up and took her to the hospital and then home. The state tried to
start trouble, but with the help of a good lawyer, the state backed off and we
forced an investigation. Needless to say, we would never want to see any child
put a state supported agency, that behave in such a manner. Our daughter, is
married and has 5 children and doing well. However, she still does not trust
the authorities. We have a wonderful relationship. So, beware, when the state
says that they are here to help.

Missing the point

May 14, 2008 5:36 p.m.

Sure, this was not handled in the best way possible. Granted, it should have
been planned better, and CPS clearly hadn't done their homework on how they were
going to provide for all these folks...BUT- these compounds need to be
taken down. I have no problem with the LDS church. I have no problems with
freedom of speech, religion, etc. I do have problems with the FLDS that
consistently flip the bird to the laws of America (laws that the rest of us
abide by), consistently manipulate our tax system to their benefit, and
consistently abuse children. Those things should be red flags for all Americans.
If the FLDS members will abide by the laws of our country, by all means let them
live in peace. Until then, I commend Texas for the effort though not the actual
execution.

G

May 14, 2008 5:11 p.m.

"If CPS workers mistreated FLDS members while they were in protective custody,
that is inexcusable and, if proven, CPS workers who violated CPS procedures or
broke the law should be held accountable."

If CPS workers COULD be
held accountable these abuses would not have happened.

don't get mad

May 14, 2008 5:05 p.m.

get even. Or at least get involved. Google "captive flds children" and go to the
top page. If you look at their side of the story (those videos must have been
shot before their kids were taken away, right ?) and still think they have a
reason to fight, there is a Donate page. Put some money into it, that's the only
way to send a message. If their defense fund grows very large, it will be
noticed. You homeschollers out there, and other odd balls, these people are
setting a precedent in a battle that might be yours tomorrow. You think your
state's agencies are not watching this ? This will tell them how much they can
get away with. This matters. Those folks have no choice in the matter, they have
to fight this (apparent) injustice. You can choose to support them. And get a
few friends to join you. It might be the only way to DO something. And no, I
have nothing to do with FLDS, far from it. I'm all in favor of prosecuting
crimes of abuse. I don't think you need to be FLDS to be deeply disturbed by
this thing.

Granny Relda

May 14, 2008 4:51 p.m.

Interloper, bumblebees can't fly, according to physics. Stuff that in your pipe,
then pipe down. CPS is ALL about the $. Every child entering their system is
accorded a bottomless pocket of Federal dollars. You wanna know why Social
Security is bankrupt, look no farther. CPS is the culprit, nationwide. No
charges will be brought, no social wreckers (or their racketeering partners, the
judges and attys)will be held accountable for the disaster these families are
experiencing. PTSD is a common after-effect following CPS involvement. My
children's therapist says nobody'll do the studies to prove her theory: children
who've been CPS -involved do poorly afterward because of the trauma of losing
their families & entire worlds when they are removed and placed into fostercare.
When a REAL crime is committed, the criminal is removed to custody, not the
putative victim(s). May God bless these families, ALL of them.

David

May 14, 2008 4:38 p.m.

As a retired public agency risk manager (legal liability, safety, insurance,
etc.), my hope is that the state of Texas will face tens of billions of dollars
in civil liability for this unspeakable violation of civil rights and, moreover,
that complicit CPS/police/government personnel will be held criminally
responsible for their illegal actions and will serve hard prison time. Where
are the federal 'authorities' when they are needed the most? Why have the
kidnappers not been arrested?

Psych Nurse

May 14, 2008 4:31 p.m.

These children under 5 do not have the neurological development to understand
what is going on and they are grieving for their mothers' in the same way as if
their mothers' were dead. The longer these kids stay in this situation the more
damage is being done to them.

Chairman Kite knows this. Please try to
find his email address and send him a letter of support in his efforts to
reunite these children with their mothers.

Oregonian

May 14, 2008 4:21 p.m.

It is time for all good people to stop being silent about this. Please send a
note to Gov. Perry and demand that he put a stop to it and return those children
to their mothers.

SWP

May 14, 2008 3:59 p.m.

Texas is the same State where the Government killed the families and children in
Waco. While I believe that FLDS has an evil philosophy of life, I believe that
there are many organizations that are evil but I do not support government
taking their children and their lives. There has been no due process as to
individual children. This is way it is hard to trust governments.

antizelot

May 14, 2008 3:20 p.m.

Only a sadistic sociopath could possibly think that stealing innocent children
from their parents is ok. PERIOD

Objectivity

May 14, 2008 2:55 p.m.

How does one look at this situation without judging? Very difficult to do.

Life is a series of choices, and for each choice there are consequences,
good and bad. This is nothing more than the Law of Karma at work.

And
we see it at work now with this situation: a Karmic rebalancing, nothing
more.

No debt goes unpaid in the Universe...

Cindy

May 14, 2008 2:49 p.m.

RE: Obvious | 1:47 p.m. May 14, 2008 said "The numerous posts on this site
supporting the FLDS do not reflect the attitudes around the country. The public
sentiment is overwhelmingly in favor of reigning in these polygamists. They no
longer live in secret. They will have to watch their backs from here on in."*********************Yea, that is what the news and the Government said
about the Short Creek Raid and we all see how much it changed the FLDS - not a
drop!

Also much of the public sentiment is against the FLDS because
the mainstream media is bias. There are few if ANY reports on the women that CPS
have now said are adults. Almost no reports on CPS trying to take babies away
from these women. NOthing on CNN or FOX about a new mother sleeping on a
mattress on the floor with a newborn. Want to keep the public on your side...
limit what you tell them. Paint everyone with a wide brush!

Greg

May 14, 2008 2:40 p.m.

To: Axe to Grind

"Being rude and insensitive to people in such a
trying circumstance, though unacceptable, is not against the law."

You're in for a big surprise.

When a governing entity aprehends
people and then shows animosity toward them, it is evidence that the aprehension
itself was a result of the same animosity.

Texas is in deep and will
pay BIG.

Algonquin

May 14, 2008 2:34 p.m.

"Who do you root for? And is there a way both sides can lose?"

Well,
you root for neither and hope for significant change in both.

magnus

May 14, 2008 2:34 p.m.

@ Axe to Grind

You're right being rude to people you have imprisoned
is not a crime.

You know what else isn't a crime? Indoctrinating
your children.

But that is what they are now saying is the primary
reason they tore these kids away from their families and refuse to give them
back.

NOT BECAUSE OF ABUSE, BECAUSE THERE WAS NONE.

NOT
BECAUSE THE WHOLE COMMUNITY WAS HAVING SEX WITH MINORS, BECAUSE THAT ONLY
JUSTIFIES TAKING A FEW YOUNG GIRLS.

IT IS BECAUSE THEY WHERE
INDOCTRINATING THEIR CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!

That my friends is not a
slippery slope, that is a cliff. IF CPS can justify this action on the grounds
that they "felt that the children where being indoctrinated to be abused and to
be abusers" then heaven help us all.

Moreover, if they where worried
about the scope, instead of carting them all off to a concentration camp and
separating them like cattle, maybe they could have just put the community on
house arest until they figured out what was really going on. But hey, that
might not have made the news.

Greg

May 14, 2008 2:30 p.m.

To: The Texan

"Hey Grandma (obviosu FLDS poser), abuse was found,
that why the courts ordered the action they did. You have dementia or
something."

I couldn't have asked for a better expression of Texas
bigotry than this.

God Bless America

May 14, 2008 2:06 p.m.

Do I agree with plural marriage? No. Are these children being raised to be
terrorists? No. Have we allowed government to be our conscience? Yes. Do you
want more government intervention in your lives? Vote for Democrats.

This raid, we now know, was based on false pretenses. Return these people to
their homes and let them live in the land of the free and home of the brave. And
prosecute those that break the law, whoever it may be.

Re: Watcher

May 14, 2008 2:04 p.m.

I don't consider leaving children with abusive parents until the parents have
been tried and convicted of abuse to be an American tradition or
constitutional.

The children have rights too, specifically, the right
not to be abused by their parents.

We're not certain that all of the
children actually belong to parents living at the ranch, so the state first has
to determine the legal parents of each child before the children can be
returned.

Anonymous

May 14, 2008 1:56 p.m.

Horrific and shameful. Where is the humanity? The basic relationship between a
mother and her child is something every human being should understand.

I can't help but think, "what would I do?" I would die before letting
my children be taken away from me. I have small children and I know how much
they need me. This is criminal and every American should be ashamed.

Obvious

May 14, 2008 1:47 p.m.

What is obvious is the Texas authorities were in over their heads here and some
individuals abused their power. However, the individual hearings will proceed
and most of these kids will be returned to their parents. I suspect the
preteen/teen girls may be separated until they reach 18. But life on the ranch
has changed forever. The numerous posts on this site supporting the FLDS do not
reflect the attitudes around the country. The public sentiment is
overwhelmingly in favor of reigning in these polygamists. They no longer live
in secret. They will have to watch their backs from here on in.

Respect american tradition and constitution - return the children to their
homes, and THEN begin appropriate prosecutions of any law breakers.

Ing

May 14, 2008 1:01 p.m.

"Some sacrifices might be required..."

Some sacrifices are just not
worthwhile.

Even if CPS has the best of intentions and the
callousness they've been accused of is blown out of proportion, how can anyone
say that all of these children will be better off for being suddenly taken away
from their parents?

I can't help imagining my own children, 9 and 6
years old, in such a situation. I don't think they'll ever be in that
situation, and I would never do anything to put them in it, but as a parent, I
can't help but think of how my kids would feel. They would be devastated. They
would never recover fully from that. I don't think I would ever recover from
it, either.

There's no disputing that the FLDS marriage practices are
against the law and considered immoral by the vast majority of society.

I also think there's no disputing that the Texas CPS handled this situation
INCREDIBLY poorly. No matter what their motives, I just can't believe that
taking more than 400 children away from their parents at the same time is the
right response.

The Texan

May 14, 2008 12:27 p.m.

Let's see;

9 unsigned letters from how many people. Hey, wake up
people there are over 400+ people assigned and 9 have a problem? Maybe, it's
personal.

Stop stooping to gossip and rumors. Either the FLDS have a
valid leg to stand on or this rumor mongering is going to bite them where they
sit. Grow up, people.

Texas CPS is the greatest.

Hey
Grandma (obviosu FLDS poser), abuse was found, that why the courts ordered the
action they did. You have dementia or something.

This is stupid.

Anonymous

May 14, 2008 12:27 p.m.

You FLDS people need to learn to spell. It is hard to understand your comments
whenever you are ranting and raving, using really bad spelling. Also the CAPITAL
LETTERING NEEDS TO GO! Too much drama.

Granddad

May 14, 2008 11:57 a.m.

Grandma. I'm not FLDS. But if they come after them, if you are old, you maybe on
the list. How can you be so heartless?Don't be blinded by 65 year old men,
fraud, child abuse, ect. They need to be corrected but right now these babies
and their mothers should not be suffering.

Thank you

May 14, 2008 11:51 a.m.

Deseret news for reporting the latest in this case.

To Bruce

May 14, 2008 11:49 a.m.

FLDS did buy the land in Eldorado...under false pretenses...The snowball to hell
started then.

Rich

May 14, 2008 11:49 a.m.

John Kight is not an expert in constitutional law, just a bureaucrat charged
with administering within a bureaucratic government. Would he rather have
children raised in a polygamous community, which is by definition a community
based on illegal activity in which children are cultivated to continue the
practice of law-breaking, or would he rather have children raised by families
that honor and sustain the law? Society might choose the latter, realizing
there are some sacrifices that might be required to accomplish that end. I
applaud Texas for taking action rather than sticking their heads in the red
sands of southern Utah. Mark Shurtleff is an ostrich.

Cleanup

May 14, 2008 11:40 a.m.

Today the news is high gas prices, the primary elections and the earthquake in
China but is there anything more important than these little children and their
mothers that were kidnapped and are being abused by the Texas CPS?Our
elected representative need to be aware of your public outrage that this could
happen in the United States in 2008. Please do your part and call them.I'm
not FLDS.We can never accuse Germany again! We have our own guilt now.Why is our army in Iraq? What are they fighting for when we are doing this
damage in this country?

Vindicated 2

May 14, 2008 11:33 a.m.

Either it takes forever to have your comments moderated or my last one got lost.

Either way...They way these mothers have conducted themselves is
commendable and we truly have much to learn (or remember as it were) about the
right way to raise kids, and much to learn about humility in the face of such
horrific government abuse. I for one would have come uncorked if CPS raided my
home on such flimsy evidence and the second amendment would have been in play.

They continue to ratchet up
their rhetoric in order to distract from the real issue, child abuse. Their end
goal is to get their children back without any strings attached so that they can
continue practicing their beliefs without restriction, even if some of those
beliefs promote child abuse and rape.

Bruce

May 14, 2008 11:07 a.m.

Let's see...FLDS is buying some land and moving to our state. We can't have
that..they're different.Hmmm...let's raise the legal marriage age up 2
years to entrap them, regardless of the fact that we have ghettos and barrios
full of underage pregnancies with no marriage intended.The public is
pretty gullible, then we could say "child abuse" (or some other buzzword) and
they'll all excuse whatever we do in the name of the childrens "best
interest".We'll let the media and CPS spew out accusations and most of the
unthinking public will follow along like good little sheep.Sincerely,the great state of Texas

Vindicated

May 14, 2008 11:06 a.m.

I have posted on this and other sites several times over the past two weeks of
my personal interaction with the FLDS. I have treated their families in my
medical clinic for over 10 years. They are some of the most decent people I
have ever met. I will vouch for the description of how the mothers love their
children. I have watched the way the kids watch out for each other, and for the
manners and respect they show. For the last month, my heart has been ripped out
for them because I know better than to believe the crap being reported about
total abuse in their community. Abuse there is more isolated than in the
general population in my observation.

TEXAS! Free these people NOW!

Grandma

May 14, 2008 10:47 a.m.

I intend to give on a regular basis to the FLDS defence fund, and have already
given my first donation. But don't expect the lawyers to save them. It is only
WE THE PEOPLE, who through our outrage and demand for action, will have any real
long-term effect. Boycott all the news organizations that are not telling the
truth (e.g, CNN, etc.). DEMAND action from policitians - don't let them hide
behind the "Best interests of the child" lie any longer. Send them articles on
CPS abuses - email them, write them, fax them, call them. Barbara Walther's
phone number (at least her work number) is available on the Internet.

LET THESE POWER HUNGRY, CORRUPT, HEARTLESS THUGS AND THEIR SILENT OR VOCAL
SUPPORTERS KNOW THAT WE THE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO SIT BY AND WATCH OUR
CHILDREN KIDNAPPED AND DESTROYED!

ACT NOW!!!!! They WILL be coming
for your children, if we don't do something NOW!

Ax to grind

May 14, 2008 10:39 a.m.

As the FLDS and their supports have complained so much about the CPS motives in
this case, I just wonder if all of John Kight's complaints came simply because
of his neutral observations at the Colliseum, or if many of is his complaints
are based on trumped up charges of trivial incidents because Kight had a
previous ax to grind against the CPS.

Being rude and insensitive to
people in such a trying circumstance, though unacceptable, is not against the
law.

Child abuse and child rape are.

Las Vegas Guy

May 14, 2008 10:28 a.m.

I have found it very difficult to believe anything that the Texas Government has
said about this whole situation. I have not for 1 second thought that the
mothers of this community were abusive in any way. The Men I can see as being
strict and overbearing and I can even believe some abuse perhaps. But I believe
the State of Texas is reporting lies, lies, lies to help sway Public Opionion in
what they are doing. These women have done nothing to merit them being taken
from their children. If a government agancy attempted to take my kids from me or
my wife for no good reason. They better be packing a lot of heat. The Texas CPS
is sounding a bit like a Communist Division. Hey who's for the Government
telling us how to raise or kids? ef off Texas CPS.

More interesting

May 14, 2008 10:16 a.m.

For what it's worth, I don't think that any of the parties involved in this
fiasco are completely innocent nor do I think that they are all guilty. I don't
think that the FLDS are totally wrong in some of their beliefs, but then I don't
think that CPS would have taken on a case of this magnitude without having some
kind of grounds for doing so. Mistakes have been made by all parties involved
and some more will continue to be made. It has been said repeatedly that this
case is unprecedented. Both parties are trying to work through tons of legal
and moral issues. I don't think that it will end anytime soon. I think that we
all need to stop being so vicious in our postings and let the courts and the
lawyers work this out. Hopefully what's best for these kids will be the end
result.

Tears

May 14, 2008 10:03 a.m.

I could hardly read this without wiping away a flood of tears.

I do
not agree with polygamy nor underage children marrying.

But, this is
very sad, I just can't understand this.

Raymond Takashi Swenson

May 14, 2008 10:03 a.m.

It is clear from these eyewitness accounts that you will be treated better as a
terrorist at Guantanamo Bay than being a 4 year old child held by the State of
Texas Child Protective Services.

Distraction

May 14, 2008 10:02 a.m.

If CPS workers mistreated FLDS members while they were in protective custody,
that is inexcusable and, if proven, CPS workers who violated CPS procedures or
broke the law should be held accountable.

That doesn't excuse the
FLDS from abusing their children, which is even more inexcusable. If it is
proven that the FLDS members sexually abused and/or raped their children,
everyone involved, directly or indirectly, should be held accountable.

This story is an unfortunate distraction from the real issue, child abuse.

BBKing

May 14, 2008 9:58 a.m.

"They get their minds made up that they have unlimited power to do what they
want and it's not right."

This should be the final word on the
attitude that is running the show in DCFS/CPS.

What most people are
not aware of is that the entire Child Protective Services authority is NOT found
in criminal law but instead civil law. This means that the normal 'innocent
until proven guilty' does not apply. This means that your Constitutional rights
are NOT protected.

Remember the Parker Jensen case? He failed a
cancer test. The parents wanted a second opinion, the arrogant doctor said No.
He wanted to do chemotherapy right then. The parents got a second opinion, which
showed No cancer. The doctor was infuriated and called DCFS. The parents ended
up having charges of kidnapping for wanting a second medical opinion! In the
end, several more tests showed No cancer. Turns out the first test was
mishandled, the arrogant doctor was wrong and the parents were right.

The civil court law that governs DCFS/CPS allowed them to charge the parents
with the felony crime of kidnapping their own child.

The system is
majorly flawed! FLDS case is also flawed!

To interloper

May 14, 2008 9:51 a.m.

Lets see if this posting gets past the censors. People need to check into the
allegations of abuse that have been filed against MHMR workers before they start
believing all they have to say. Their hands are not lily white.

Interesting to the interloper

May 14, 2008 9:27 a.m.

My last post seems to have gotten lost....again..I do support what you are
saying. I am a nurse who worked MHMR for ten years, for the State of Texas.
The term "MHMR workers" is a very broad term. Some of these staff receive
extensive training, others very little. They are still grouped together.
People need to check into the allegations of abuse and neglect that have been
filed against some of these MHMR staff. Their hands are not lily white by no
means. I asked a psychiatrist with MHMR once why they do not do psychiatric
evaluations on people before they are hired. He stated "If we did, we would
have no staff. Some of these staffers have more issues than the people they are
hired to take care of"

Jack from Ark

May 14, 2008 9:27 a.m.

Finally some one coming out to help these unfortunate people. I absolutely do
not condone what they do in there faith but this nonsense has to stop. These
folks at CPS don't need to be fired, the guilty ones need to be brought up on
charges of brutality, of over stepping authority and child abuse. Maybe if they
had a little of their own medicine (like taking their children from them) they
might be a little more compassionate themselves. Just remember That Germany did
exactly the same thing as CPS during the second world war under the guise of
taking care of the children. they harassed the mothers and intimidated the
fathers with arrest. They then started eliminating all the children. Do you
think the CPS would do that to protect their power? These jack booted thugs
have gotten away with this as of now. Now lets all just sit back and do nothing
and we won't be held accountable for this disgusting travesty of justice.

Ray

May 14, 2008 9:24 a.m.

I think the lesson is clear. Next time a 14-year-old girl shows up at a Texas
high school pregnant, we need to sieze her and everyone else in the school, eh?
Now there is precedence, no family in Texas is safe.

Anon

May 14, 2008 8:59 a.m.

Brings to mind a statement I once heard:

"Now we must all fear evil
men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the
indifference of good men."

Guess that can be applied to both sides of
this argument.

just thinking II

May 14, 2008 8:56 a.m.

to Interloperthis is the problem with this issue. we all want to believe
what we want. if someone writes for the FLDS then they have an agenda. if
someone writes for CPS then all the charges are 100% justified. where is the
truth. i have had dealings with flds. i have been in their homes and have seen
how the children are treated and how i was treated by the flds members. they are
shy aroung strangers. but that does not make them evil. i think the quotes in
this article are true of how the flds are. my experience with cps is also true
accourding to this article. this is the best article that has been published.
good work. please reunite these children with their mothers. cps pull out while
you still can. i know this will not happen but i would hope the governer would
step in and do something. he wont but we can hope. after years it will be sorted
out. what a black eye for the state of texas.

THANK YOU!

May 14, 2008 8:57 a.m.

What a great man to stand up and tell the truth, no matter how unpopular it may
be!!!

To interloper

May 14, 2008 8:54 a.m.

I agree with your posting. There is so much that is not being said in this
article. I am a nurse and worked MHMR for 10 years. There are some truly good
people who work MHMR but there are also many who are very disgruntled about
salaries, benefits, etc. Some MHMR employees have extensive training and others
receive very little. "Mental Health workers" is a very broad term. Anytime
there is an incident such as what is happening in Texas, some people will
always play "Devil's Advocate".

E Plurus Unum

May 14, 2008 8:52 a.m.

Sadly this is typical behavoir for CPS. Perhaps a silver lining in all of this
will be the exposure of CPS for what it is. This si what happens when you give
government unlimited power and allow them to operate in secrecy - an abuse of
power.

Grandma

May 14, 2008 8:42 a.m.

Interloper, it doesn't surprise me that you take the side of those who would
beat down the vulnerable - Terry Schiavo, that is. ANYONE who would side with
the CPS has to not only have something seriously wrong with their mind, but
their heart as well.

What makes people like you so cold? You'll
pull the plug on someone - Terry Schiavo - who is loved and cared for and still
has joy in her life (and you could see it in the videos which were spread all
over the Internet)JUST as quickly as you'll consign hundred of children to a
life of torture and misery.

READ THE STATISTICS ON FOSTER CARE
ABUSE!!!! THEY ARE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY HIGHER THAN THE ABUSE AT THE FLDS - by
the way, NO abuse was found at the FLDS.

Why are you so intent upon
your cruelty? What abuse have you suffered that you must re-inflict?

Justice System?

May 14, 2008 8:16 a.m.

What has happened to Innocent until proven Guilty? The system has already
branded these children and mothers guilty without evidence. Let me tell you
whats wrong with society today its all about politics its voting season; who can
get the better story. So that Texas and the United States can have some more
twisted people in office. Whats wrong with raising children to have
responsbilties, morals,values,decipline. If everyone raised their children with
these types of values the prisons may not be so full. CPS is stupid because
majority of workers are just there for a paycheck, not because they care.
Judges, Police officers, Cps, You are no better than the next person we all came
from the same creator, we all bleed red, so dont try to act all big and mighty,
because you have a uniform and a title, Once apon a time you were
helpful,caring, loving citizens, come back. Put yourself on the other side how
would you feel if someone made a false phone call on your family.

Bob

May 14, 2008 8:08 a.m.

I am ashamed of Texas and America today! How can the government think that it
is ok to act this way in the name of 'right'? Why is someone not coming to the
aid of these American Citizens? Shame on Texas, Shame on America!

Phil

May 14, 2008 8:06 a.m.

CPS vs. FLDS, if you are looking for a lose-lose situation, you have already
found it.

Phil

May 14, 2008 7:58 a.m.

Way to GO Grandma!!!!!! I, too, am an LDS grandparent, and I have been
following this particular case very closely. I wrote a letter to Pres. Bush, to
my Congressmen, and to the Gov of Texas about all of the CPS atrocities and the
obvious "exercise of unrighteous dominion". I doubt anyone will care or even
read my one letter; however, they cannot ignore all of our letters. People, get
off your butts and actually DO SOMETHING to help these children and families. I
even donated money to their legal defense fund. I will do whatever these people
need in order to assist. I have 9 children of my own and nine more
grandchildren and I know that what Texas did to these people will not stop at
the Texas border. We have a Constitution that is supposed to protect us from
things like this. Barring that, the Declaration of Independence mandates what
we are obligated to do in the event those who are sworn to support and defend
the Constitution fail to carry out their trust. "Nuff said.

Sharon

May 14, 2008 7:56 a.m.

ANYONE...being FLDS members or CPS members who inflicts abuse on another human,
should be held accountable for their actions ! I, for one, feel the State of
Texas has done what Utah and Arizona should have done years ago. Its also the
State of Texas duty...to weed out the CPS workers who dont know how to treat
others with respect,understanding and kindness. Its also the duty of any CPS
worker who witnesses another CPS worker's mistreatment of these women and
children to report it to the authorities.These abusive CPS workers need to be
punished !

When will this be national news

May 14, 2008 7:49 a.m.

How long will it take the New York Times and CNN to report on this story.Our press is a dismal failure in getting to the real story.Great to see
these mental care workers have done the right thing and spoken out on the abuse
by may of the CPS staff.Lets hope this gets to the courts soon and
compassionate judges will hear the facts and return the children soon.

Interloper

May 14, 2008 6:57 a.m.

What one most notices in the remarks of the MHMR workers is the lack of
substance in their complaints. Not one episode of actual abuse is described.
Much of what is described is hearsay straight from the mouths of FLDS women
angry about not getting their way. Some folks are easily manipulated and I think
these MHMR workers were. That is partly because they wanted to be.

The remarks remind of the Terri Schiavo circus. Recall that there were health
care workers testifying in news conferences that Schiavo had talked, eaten and
drank, and even asked to go dancing. But, we know from the medical evidence that
she was blind, incapable of swallowing and most of her brain mass had
deteriorated within months of her injury. There are always fools who rush in
regardless of the irrationality of doing so.

Last, but not least,
this MHMR unit, apparently subcontractors, are in a dispute with DPS as a result
of some of the workers being dismissed from that assignment. They've lost money
and, from their perspective, been insulted. It is not surprising that they would
get together and write remarkably similar complaints against CPS.

CPS vs. FLDS

May 14, 2008 3:24 a.m.

Who do you root for? And is there a way both sides can lose?

What if...?

May 14, 2008 2:07 a.m.

What if the state is afraid to allow the mothers to take care of their own kids
because of any harm the mothers have on their children? What's very sad is that
this crazy, possibly abusive care that the kids are recieving is the first
glimpse of the outside real world that the rest of us interact with daily. The
women and kids may be abused by CPS but they're no longer in the control of the
warped FLDS minds.

re: Betty

May 14, 2008 1:55 a.m.

So Betty, what do they pay at CPS now days?

Morgan

May 14, 2008 1:34 a.m.

What a travesty. I can't believe that this is happening in the United states. I
can see separating children from the fathers, but only where there is probable
cause to believe that the children have been or will be abused. I see no
justification whatsoever for separating the children from their mothers. The
argument that CPS only wants to get the truth from the children and believes the
children will be unduly influenced by their mothers if they are allowed to stay
together just doesn't fly. If CPS wants to question children outside the
presence of their mothers, do that, but don't separate them.

Thotman

May 14, 2008 1:18 a.m.

Our country is founded on a Constitution which assures checks and
balances...unfortunately the CPS has no checks nor balances. I am pleased that
some crazy in the FLDS group has not committed some retaliatory act that would
jepordize the entire lot. Given the current trends any such act of violence
would probably result in the execution of innocent associates or worse their
women and children. Where are the good men who seem to be doing NOTHING in
rectifying this horrific situation...Where is the Governor? Where are the
superior courts, and their judges? Where are the voters who elected Hildabrand,
looking for their minds? Its time to demand that the children be returned to
their parents...and the FLDS men who have committed crimes located and
prosecuted...along with anyone (including judges, CPS bigshots and workers, and
organizers of this inept removal) responsible for this violation of this groups
civil and human rights. It is not sufficient to say they are weird...if
weirdness is the standard for persecution and abuse half the country would be in
trouble. Crimes are individual events and should be prosecuted as such. In our
society the Rule of Law needs to be supreme.

Grandma

May 14, 2008 1:16 a.m.

Anonymous, 10 minutes research will show you that CPS is like this the world
around. I have personally read case after case where families were ripped apart
by lying, cheating, stealing CPS workers. Unchecked power is a vicious,
dangerous thing. When you can operate with unlimited power, and in total
secrecy, you had better believe there are going to be massive abuses of power.
There is no other entity on the face of this earth quite like CPS. Their power
to do harm is like nothing else. They can put you and your family through hell,
and there is no way out of it. Families who have had a child die of natural
causes and also had one stolen by CPS, say that it easier to have a child die,
than to have him or her stolen by CPS.

The cruelty is
incomprehensible, but all too real.

Let's band together, and put a
stop to this now! Let's truly work for "the best interests of the child."

Grandma

May 14, 2008 1:00 a.m.

To the defender of CPS: I bet it is was investigated thoroughly YOU would be
found to be affiliated with CPS. Trying to cover up for the brutality that
cannot be denied now. No one with an I.Q. past 70, or a heart over 1/2 ounce,
believes that CPS is operating in the "best interests of the child." It's way
to late to try to garner sympathy for a gang of brutal thugs.

If
there is a hell, I'd hate to be a CPS worker.

Not Surprised

May 14, 2008 12:03 a.m.

This whole story has smelled bad from day one. Thank goodness for some people
with courage to come forward with what they have seen and witnessed first
hand.Please prosecute with evidence through our court system anyone who
has molested or abused children but don't punish innocent people by association.
I cannot believe what is happening in our country. CPS system needs to be
revamped. The biggest culprit? Judge Walther(sp) she should be monitoring this
out of control agency.

sosueme534

May 14, 2008 12:03 a.m.

I made several comments on here earlier, now they are gone. I was not abusive,
but I did have a plan to stop this illegal action from continuning turn off your
tv's and radios.don't go out of the house don't drive, we as a nation can bring
these people to their knees in less than 2 days but it must be followed by
almost all of this great nation. I know we can do it and if we don't our
constitution won't be worth any more than toilet paper.

Anonymous

May 13, 2008 11:17 p.m.

Giving CPS the EXTREME benefit of the doubt:

--Consider near disaster
conditions, (partly erroneous) indoctrination about what to expect, and what
they consider a legal mandate to protect children according to their definition
of protection. Take scissors or knives. People not used to beign around mentally
ill or suicidal people think these are completely innocent objects. CPS workers,
besides their baseline experience are thinking "doomsday cult" or something.

--Consider a population of people many of whom are closely related from
both sides of their families, who look a lot alike, who have similar names.
Today I was reading about one family who has two children named Joseph both
under 5! Keeping track of all those people would give me a headache even if I
were not also trying to be objective about the collective motherhood and
communal breastfeeding..

--Just taking a wild guess, I bet state
personnel rules actually make it sort of logical that someone who for whatever
reason needs not to work in a prison anymore might have lots of skills and
background relevant for CPS.

The CPS behavior is unfortunatelyabout
average for CPS but it is a direct result in teis case of otehr legal
overreaching.

Amen Lynn

May 13, 2008 11:04 p.m.

Thank you grandmother, for telling us like it really is. The children and women
are the victims of a few evil men. Unfortunately, the victims are now suffering
further abuse at the hands of CPS, who is above the law. I wonder if Gov. Perry
and the state legislature will take any action.

Ben

May 13, 2008 10:58 p.m.

My heart goes out to these mothers,children, and their families. The state of
Texas is clearly in the wrong. These people were minding their own business and
hurting no one and especially not their own children. This is an atrocity. It
all probably stems back to some (anti-Mormon) religious fanatic that doesnt
agree with polygamy and decided to "punish" these innocent people.

Anonymous

May 13, 2008 10:47 p.m.

I think it's pretty insulting to call the FLDS men cowards. I myself have
watched multiple cops'jaws drop when they thought I was admitting a felony. I
wasn't but the resulting legal entanglements gave me headaches for years. So I
do not blame the men for keeping a low profile or relying on lawyers. In this
case, although I would not mind in the least if this experience made these guys
rethink some aspects of their faith which I consider downright creepy, the
lawyers are going to do them more good in the near term than their prophet

I think the FLDS men DO need lawyers with the guts to point out all the
social structures aimed at getting non-FLDS men who father children with
multiple women to be responsible for the children they father. By that standard,
however strange and disturbing I find many elements of the FLDS faith, these
fathers cannot be faulted. CPS / DPS will have to dig up some real dirt or smear
a very biased spin over some facts to overcome that point.

For the
record I do not endorse much older men marrying teenagers; i do endorse men
supporting the children they father.

Lynn

May 13, 2008 10:34 p.m.

This article left me in tears. The thought of a little boy, just barely past
toddler age, carrying a little pillow, walking down the rows, just begging for
someone to rock him (like his mother rocked him), to comfort him, broke my
heart.

It was sad, too, that a boy went to a uniformed policeman,
seeking help, and the policeman said he couldn't help him. I wonder how the
officer felt. I imagine at least some of the law enforcement officers felt
compassion for them.

It also makes me angry that a former prison
principal was even hired, let alone allowed to serve in a place where frightened
children and women were being sheltered (if you can even call it that).

I'm an LDS grandmother, and this whole thing is very upsetting to me. I
can't, with a clear conscience, condone the actions of the FLDS leaders, who
have broken several laws. But the women and children are suffering now, from
abuse by the CPS. I have no doubt that there are innocent men who are suffering
too, from the loss of wives and children. I fear there is neither justice nor
mercy here.

Anonymous

May 13, 2008 10:30 p.m.

First do no harm. I was struck by the MH worker who cited horrendous long-term
outcomes for kids who have dealing with CPS. I am sure part of the issue is that
most kids coming into contact with CPS have already been through really awful
damaging experiences.

Feeding a kid into the maw of CPS with
overworked caseowrkers, lack of followup, high staff turnover, chronically
insufficient resources, and a hundred other hazards MIGHT be an improvement for
a kid whose mother is a crack whore and dad is cooking meth, but those kids are
already heavily damaged.

On the other hand, the risks, hazards, and
damage caused by the dynamics of the FLDS community are a lot more subtle.
People who come across as loving and well-connected may in fact be poorly
equipped to cope with disruptionsof their routines or circumstances that
challenge their deeply inculcated coping mechanisms. In the best case, FLDS
members may regard this as just another test from God. In that case a state
agency hell-bent on destroying elements of the community will only make things
worse, increase the chance of bad long-term outcomes.

Doug

May 13, 2008 10:28 p.m.

I hope and pray that some day the full truth of the situation in Texas will come
to light. When it does, it will be interesting to see what average Americans
find more repulsive -- the lifestyles of the polygamous FLDS or the brutality of
the CPS.

Rose

May 13, 2008 10:13 p.m.

Betty--you are dead wrong! This has nothing to do with any cult--just because
they believe different than you do. We live in a land of religious freedom
remember? If you don't remember, go read our history books.

Texas
MUST release those children they kidnapped and give them back to their mothers
and let them GO FREE. We do still live in a country where we can go to and fro
freely. But apparantly not.

TEXAS, let these children go home to
their mothers NOW! Release them before you do more harm to these little ones.

From another psychologist

May 13, 2008 10:06 p.m.

After reading many of the ignorant and unprofessional statements made by Texas
authorities and their supporters I was not surprised to read the accounts of
mental health workers who observed and recorded the abuse of children and
mothers by the CPS. Its too bad that the mistreatment of the FLDS is being
overshadowed in the media by the downturn in the economy and the presidential
elections.

It makes me angry that innocent children are being more
severely abused by the CPS than they may have been abused in their community.
I'm not FLDS and don't know any members. I live in a different part of the
country. But I do know about child abuse, and so far, from reading many media
reports, I see far more evidence of child abuse from the CPS than I do from the
fundamentalists.

I've noticed

May 13, 2008 10:00 p.m.

I've noticed that "Deseret News" fails to post many comments. Heavy censorship.
Wonder if CPS might be pulling the strings?

betty

May 13, 2008 9:44 p.m.

nonsense, just another man trying to get some publicity for himself. the
mothers and children were lying to the workers. we dont even know what children
were theirs, all the so called wives claimed them all as their own. the
children are in safe places, in safe hands, may god be with them. not the
travesty of religion that the old men and pedofiles had waiting for them. the
mothers were so brainwashed they could not protect their own children from the
men in this cult.

observer

May 13, 2008 9:28 p.m.

Now that the true character of CPS is coming to light (no doubt just the tip of
the iceberg) and considering the well documented horrors of the foster care
system ... we can only imagine inhumane treatment and terror these kids are
likely facing hour by hour, day by day.

I suspect whatever we might
imagine is not as bad as atrocities those FLDS kids are actually forced to
endure at the hands of CPS (the alleged "protectors").

Maybe the WACO
kids were relatively luck to be burned alive. At least they did not have to
suffer systematic humiliation at the hands of CPS. I don't think we have heard
the worst yet.

Been there

May 13, 2008 9:11 p.m.

I'm surprised that the "Retired Psychologist Phd." is surprised. It's your
occupation that help create this mess. I've been up against CPS. Even sued
them. Won the law suit, but they're protected by law and didn't collect a
thing. The damage they caused can never be rectified and made whole. Yes, CPS
is needed, but they have too much uncontroled and unsupervised power. Some
accountability is needed.

It's like a lot of other issues that have
evolved in America. Unless something is done to stop this kind of garbage,
we'll end up imploding just like Soviet Russia. How sad. Yes, "Land of the
Free", our founding fathers are rolling over in their grave.

CD

May 13, 2008 8:29 p.m.

I totally agree with these statements. I, too, spent two weeks volunteering with
the ladies and their children at the coliseum. The ladies, voluntarily there,
were gracious, compliant and wonderful mothers, completely dedicated to their
children. CPS workers were like prison guards..harsh, suspicious, standing
around them as they slept. They lied to the mother's the night of the hearing
saying they wouldn't lose their children, they wouldn't tell the whereabouts of
their other children and most weren't allowed access to the hearing or to
newspapers. We were even reprimanded for writing down one mother's chidrens'
names so that we could pray for them! However, the Texas Dept. of Health and
the Texas dept. purchasing supplies for the ladies were excellent, sensitive to
the mother's and children's needs and very agreeable. I commend those dept. but
am disgusted with the action of CPS.

Reginald Day

May 13, 2008 8:20 p.m.

The CPS has just admitted to judge walther that a girl who gave birth and has
been held, is an adult - not a minor as CPS had previously maitained.The
woman showed ID, birth cert., license, but CPS would not admit she was an adult
and held her.More proof that the CPS are liars, and in this case, have
been holding and adult woman against her will! - this is Kidnapping! let the
charges fly - and there'd better be someone held accountable!!!!!

Thomas

May 13, 2008 8:12 p.m.

When people are given too much authority, they abuse it. Our third-rate
grandstanding politicians have afraid to rein in these CPS People and here is
the result.

Concerned

May 13, 2008 7:52 p.m.

May the Lord be with them in this time of trouble and may the bigots like Pants
on Fire have their hardened hearts softened.

Liar Liar Pants on Fire

May 13, 2008 7:39 p.m.

Well folks, If the FLDS Men were not such big HUGE Cowards these kinds of things
wouldn't be happening now to the woman and children. The FLDS men have
themselves completely to blame for this event. So to all you FLDS Men...PLEASE
DON'T BE BOO-HOO-ING AROUND TO THE REST OF THE WORLD! You FLDS men have put your
families into this predicament with all your many lies and lying to the
authorities!

John

May 13, 2008 7:22 p.m.

This is the worst case of human rights violations that I've heard of in my life
time. Texas should be ashamed for letting this take place in this day and age.
Did we learn nothing from Hitler? A shamful day for America in general. Great
article.

Rednael

May 13, 2008 7:18 p.m.

Adoption is big-business in this country. Healthy, drug-free white babies up for
adoption are hard to come by. Child protective workers in many states are given
quotas as to how many children they must place up for adoption every year.

These agencies usually target single-mothers because they know that
these mothers are incapable emotionally and financially of fighting these
bloated government behemoths.

What an opportunity the FLDS presented!
A years quota in one fell-swoop! Who would care about the holocaust of this
weird group!

It seems a lot of people care.

retired psychologist Ph.D.

May 13, 2008 7:06 p.m.

I'm appalled that this could be allowed to happen in the United States of
America.

I'd never live in a FLDS compound, but American Citiziens'
rights are being seriously jeapordized here. Children and adults are being
treated as criminals by some sort of "guilt by association".

I look
forward to the removal of many folks from office and the review of blunder by
the State of Texas in the Supreme Court.

Kairenn

May 13, 2008 6:46 p.m.

Christina, you take my breath away. Just how do you think all those mental
health workers are affliated with the FLDS? Very few if any of the FLDS held
jobs outside the compound. Honest people are standing up for what's right.
They did say some CPS workers were good - most were not. They are telling the
truth. CYS, CPS, whatever you want to call them - power mad.

JJ

May 13, 2008 6:13 p.m.

When is the movie coming out? This is so horrific that I wonder why isn't anyone
or agency or official coming to their aide. This is a blatant disregard for
human rights. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Perhaps it is
guilty by association.

Somehow I am reminded of Waco...

Unbelievable

May 13, 2008 6:12 p.m.

When good people stand by and do nothing, freedom will die. The people of Texas
should be ashamed of this travesty. The CPS officials as well as the judges and
the governor and the legislature are no different than the Nazi butchers of the
1930's and 40's. They are reprehensible and beneath contempt. All freedom
loving people of this country should rise up and condemn what has happened in
the USST, the Unrepentant Sorry State of Texas. I would not be surprised if
some of the worst offenders are those calling themselves good christians. Their
actions are anything BUT christian. Shame on them.

Christina

May 13, 2008 6:07 p.m.

I bet if it was to be investigated throughly those Mental health workers are
affialated with the FLDS. Trying to cover for them that poor parents syndrome
those children are better off in CPS custody.

Thomas C. Inskip

May 13, 2008 6:04 p.m.

It is my experience that money makes the World go-round. What monetary
incentive set the State of Texas to capture the YFZ compound? Separation of
Church and State was established in The Constitution of The United States of
America. Some American Native Tribes held separate religions; and continuing
as tribes, none confront these powerful groups. However, we do see
unaccounted confiscation of wealth from some American Native Tribes. What is
under the YFZ compound? Please, get real...

It's about time

May 13, 2008 6:04 p.m.

It's about time some of the truth comes out about what CPS has been doing. I
have a brother and a sister there as well as numerous other close friends whose
families have been torn away from them. I knew they were being mistreated, but
reading this is appalling! And this time, you can't say it's the FLDS just
telling lies.

can't believe this

May 13, 2008 6:03 p.m.

If this is all true, it is horrendous. I don't believe these parents should be
allowed to treat these children as property (as they do) but that does not
justify the insane actions of CPS. I was on their side until I read this - now
I'm ashamed of them.I think they should investigate and fire anyone that
acted like this. There are good CPS and bad CPS - get rid of the bad. But just
as important, don't send those kids back to that compound - give them a chance
at a real future.

Hmmm

May 13, 2008 5:56 p.m.

That is the most horrific thing I've ever read--honestly.

Those
supposedly "superior-culture dwellers" from CPS showed the very worst traits of
humanity. The offenders, each and everyone, should do jail time. For assault.
For unlawful detainment. For kidnapping. Each and every one should be tried,
convicted and punished under our legal system. To serve justice ; And even more
importantly, to deter others and re-inforce to our society that we are a decent
people. Not a police state.

pigiron

May 13, 2008 5:33 p.m.

Don't forget Barbara Walter [a judge] gave the order and is still
running things. She's heartless.

The Truth

May 13, 2008 5:06 p.m.

As we are seeing the CPS has created this nightmre for these families. Whom ever
is in control of this operation should be charged with
kidnapping,extortion,assult amoung other charges.

I cannot beleive
the Judges of Texas have not steped in en masse to stop this before it gets alot
worse.

I hope all the families sue and win big settlements as they
have been the victims.

As far as any of the readers who feel that
this unlawful seizue is justified please follow the Policeto the the kool
aid dispenser so you won't mish the train to heaven.

WAKE UP.

Land of the free?

May 13, 2008 5:00 p.m.

Home of the brave? Our founding fathers are weeping in the heavens as this
travesty continues to unfold before our eyes. Where are the freedom fighters in
this day? Has patriotism died?