I'm amazed that anyone would want to know who the space jockey was and who the alien was created by. I like the thought that the alien is simply a force of nature. I hate the idea that a human being or a company or even an android created it.

I will start with I liked Prometheus (so that you can choose to ignore this post right now if you want).

So I guess I had some expectations. But this is now the worst film I have seen in the last 5 years, taking the mantle from Split. Save one scene, it is utterly dire in pretty much every department. Tonally all over the place at both a macro and micro level, you wonder how no one involved noticed?

I also thought it was visually poor which was surprising (surprising because that is usually the one thing Ridley Scott is good at).

More dishearteningly, the franchise is now at a place where what they are doing is retrospectively hurting the good films. I mean given what is shown in Covenant,

Scott has turned out one eye-popping cult movie, Blade Runner, which was substantially altered from his own cut, and several more or less forgettable features: two respectable genre exercises (Alien and Someone to Watch Over Me), a so-so literary adaptation (The Duellists), a fluffy department-store Christmas window display (Legend), and an offensive anti-Japanese thriller (Black Rain). He’s not exactly an auteur — this former director of commercials brings a stylish sense of lighting, framing, and monumentality to a variety of visual subjects, but he needs a good script as badly as a musician needs an instrument. He seems to have lucked out this time. Callie Khouri’s screenplay (her feature debut) and the performances of Davis and Sarandon provide him with both an engine and a body; he provides the snazzy paint job. In other words, without the stellar work of these three women, he’d be lost.

He's done a handful of efficient, paint-by-number thrillers, but only three that really have any weight and that I'd care to revisit: Thelma & Louise, Blade Runner and to a lesser extent Alien. As Rosenbaum indicated, in every case Scott's work was bolstered more by his collaborators than the force of his own vision. Even Alien to me remains a triumph of art direction, and everything that remains interesting about it stems from those physical aspects of the film.

I think to discount "Alien" as nothing but "respectable genre" underestimates that film. The tension and fear that "Alien" provokes go beyond just art direction.

The most disappointing aspect of "Covenant" is the cursory manner in which the engineers are "dealt with". Instead of a cheap throwaway flashback, I would love to have seen that drama with the engineers and Shaw play out in real time, in an actual movie.... not as a flashback. This was a big missed opportunity.

The most disappointing aspect of "Covenant" is the cursory manner in which the engineers are "dealt with". Instead of a cheap throwaway flashback, I would love to have seen that drama with the engineers and Shaw play out in real time, in an actual movie.... not as a flashback. This was a big missed opportunity.

This strikes me as a blatant attempt to sidestep "Prometheus" (the writers clearly perceiving it as a redheaded stepchild ) but still give it a lip-service acknowledgement to arbitrarily tie up any loose ends.

Did they really not expect us to know that was David? That's gotta be the biggest audience insult I've ever seen. Also, I guess this is more of a question, when David appears with a knife slash on cheek, this sorta works if you believe he's Walter but otherwise David slashed his own cheek because we saw him reach for a knife (and not actually anyone in the film). Is that right?

The most disappointing aspect of "Covenant" is the cursory manner in which the engineers are "dealt with". Instead of a cheap throwaway flashback, I would love to have seen that drama with the engineers and Shaw play out in real time, in an actual movie.... not as a flashback. This was a big missed opportunity.

This strikes me as a blatant attempt to sidestep "Prometheus" (the writers clearly perceiving it as a redheaded stepchild :|) but still give it a lip-service acknowledgement to arbitrarily tie up any loose ends.

There's been talk of Scott's next Alien movie taking place between Prometheus and Covenant. Don't know how concrete that is, but it would be interesting

There's been talk of Scott's next Alien movie taking place between Prometheus and Covenant. Don't know how concrete that is, but it would be interesting

He said something like that in a TV interview about a week ago, if I recall correctly. I believe he said the next film would be called "Alien: Awakening" and would take place between Prometheus and Covenant. Not sure why he would make the films out of sequence like that?

Did they really not expect us to know that was David? That's gotta be the biggest audience insult I've ever seen. Also, I guess this is more of a question, when David appears with a knife slash on cheek, this sorta works if you believe he's Walter but otherwise David slashed his own cheek because we saw him reach for a knife (and not actually anyone in the film). Is that right?

This was really the film's biggest failing, and I think it largely falls on Scott's overly-telegraphed execution rather than the script; that said, what I was really hoping for was that the film was leading us to believe it was David pretending to be Walter, only to reveal after his betrayal that Walter had defeated David but came to embrace his philosophy around the superiority of androids to their human creators. That would have been structurally subversive and tied well into the established themes of the film, and made the prospect of further sequel-prequels more enticing.

Also irritating was the film's sloppy handle on time generally and how its last third in particular seemed to revise the xenomorph gestation period from what had been established in the original to instead whatever was convenient for the pacing of the film. The CGI was less than ideal as well, and just a handful of practical insert shots would have gone a long way to redeem some of the more shoddy purely digital elements.

In all, despite some promising elements and ideas (I was quite taken with the execution and visual composition of the opening sequence in particular), Covenant wasn't a total disaster but too uneven to come close to the peaks of the series thus far.

Did they really not expect us to know that was David? That's gotta be the biggest audience insult I've ever seen. Also, I guess this is more of a question, when David appears with a knife slash on cheek, this sorta works if you believe he's Walter but otherwise David slashed his own cheek because we saw him reach for a knife (and not actually anyone in the film). Is that right?

This was really the film's biggest failing, and I think it largely falls on Scott's overly-telegraphed execution rather than the script; that said, what I was really hoping for was that the film was leading us to believe it was David pretending to be Walter, only to reveal after his betrayal that Walter had defeated David but came to embrace his philosophy around the superiority of androids to their human creators. That would have been structurally subversive and tied well into the established themes of the film, and made the prospect of further sequel-prequels more enticing.

Also irritating was the film's sloppy handle on time generally and how its last third in particular seemed to revise the xenomorph gestation period from what had been established in the original to instead whatever was convenient for the pacing of the film. The CGI was less than ideal as well, and just a handful of practical insert shots would have gone a long way to redeem some of the more shoddy purely digital elements.

In all, despite some promising elements and ideas (I was quite taken with the execution and visual composition of the opening sequence in particular), Covenant wasn't a total disaster but too uneven to come close to the peaks of the series thus far.

That makes a lot of sense when you consider that the main themes that the writers have been talking about in nearly every interview i've read is that its a film about discovering yourself and learning about free will. Unfortunately there are so many enormous gaps in the story and scenes cut out.. I mean was it really necessary for Lope and Hallett to be Husband and Man? They have been promoting them as the first Out couple in trilogy but aside from a split second of

David was able to infect Walter with his DNA, and like a virus it would slowly take over Walter making him a host. Not at all unrealistic considering they are synthetics and run by an OS. I missed this, but apparently there is a quick cut of David doing something to Walter's neck which is where he could have put the eggs (either by expanding the neck and stuffing the eggs down his throat, or whatever. The viral aspect makes sense during the scene where Walter is sitting at the monitor and one cut shows him disappointed that Daniels is undefeated and at the end Relieved that Daniels succeeds. During the scenes at the monitor he shows signs of both David and himself. Once Walter has become full David and has taken over the ship, his broadcast could have also transmitted the virus across all networks allowing David to access all ships. Obviously the theory isn't perfect, but it's the only one I've read that makes the most sense to me

Also, just to add, I actually thought Covenant was incredibly well done, script aside, its pure visual eye candy. Sure, it's not Alien, but it doesn't need to be. Like Star Wars TFA, adding as much as it can from the original, this one seemed to contain bits of every Alien and Prometheus while also detouring into Scott's new official canon, which is fine. At the end of the day, this man is 80 years old and still churning out some heavy films that most of the new generation can only hope to accomplish once in their career. Also, The Martian just came out little more than a year ago and that was hardly a paint-by-number film. Scott has never been an Auteur anyway, aside from his superior Commercial / Art Direction experience, this is one of the last true maverick directors left, working with huge ensemble egos in less than ideal situations with massive crews and post work.

Also, just to add, I actually thought Covenant was incredibly well done, script aside, its pure visual eye candy. Sure, it's not Alien, but it doesn't need to be. Like Star Wars TFA, adding as much as it can from the original, this one seemed to contain bits of every Alien and Prometheus while also detouring into Scott's new official canon, which is fine. At the end of the day, this man is 80 years old and still churning out some heavy films that most of the new generation can only hope to accomplish once in their career. Also, The Martian just came out little more than a year ago and that was hardly a paint-by-number film. Scott has never been an Auteur anyway, aside from his superior Commercial / Art Direction experience, this is one of the last true maverick directors left, working with huge ensemble egos in less than ideal situations with massive crews and post work.

I actually thought the visuals here were nothing special either save for the black goo/engineer flashback but that was mostly because of how interesting it was to see how the black goo functioned as a weapon. In terms of locations, sets and overall color palette it was just as interesting as the actual movie itself. I've always loved the Prometheus prologue with the sweeping landscape shots which I think is some of Scott's best captured visuals in his entire career but in all honesty I think Prometheus is a better movie here overall than Covenant and I do not have a very high opinion of the former either.

I personally think the rendering of the engineers is the weakest visual in both Prometheus and Covenant, though in Covenant I think the CG rendering was at least not as distracting (the alien, engineers, etc.) as in Prometheus which completely took me out of the film every time they appeared. Visually though, my high praise is in the Space, Set design of the ship, etc. Unlike Prometheus, you can't deny that this FEELS like a modern Alien movie. I felt that the team on Covenant had a good reference with The Martian to make this film feel Out of this world and Futuristic, and at the same time somewhat realistic (aside from the flashback and engineer graveyard areas).

I personally think the rendering of the engineers is the weakest visual in both Prometheus and Covenant, though in Covenant I think the CG rendering was at least not as distracting (the alien, engineers, etc.) as in Prometheus which completely took me out of the film every time they appeared. Visually though, my high praise is in the Space, Set design of the ship, etc. Unlike Prometheus, you can't deny that this FEELS like a modern Alien movie. I felt that the team on Covenant had a good reference with The Martian to make this film feel Out of this world and Futuristic, and at the same time somewhat realistic (aside from the flashback and engineer graveyard areas).

I'm not expecting anything as profound as The Lobster, but can I ask how they handled the use of couples in Covenant? Is that a big thematic aspect of the film (say being explored through how one person reacts to losing their partner, or whether they actually might like the idea of killing off an annoying partner and see this as an opportunity!), or not too important in the way events play out?

I'm also curious if the whole David/Walter thing is about how an 'artificial couple' might work (or the solipsism of only being interested in yourself!). Does that resonate?

I'm not expecting anything as profound as The Lobster, but can I ask how they handled the use of couples in Covenant? Is that a big thematic aspect of the film (say being explored through how one person reacts to losing their partner, or whether they actually might like the idea of killing off an annoying partner and see this as an opportunity!), or not too important in the way events play out?

I'm also curious if the whole David/Walter thing is about how an 'artificial couple' might work (or the solipsism of only being interested in yourself!). Does that resonate?

There's absolutely NO weight to the relationships in this movie other than to serve cheap and rushed character motives and plot points.

I've finally watched Alien Covenant last night and would agree with the sentiment that Scott has a great eye but that even his best films are down to picking good collaborators in the script and art departments. With a decent screenplay, even as recently as The Martian, Scott can churn out a decent blockbuster. Unfortunately with these Alien prequels he is in control more than he has been before and it shows that he is surprisingly clueless as to what makes a film work thematically and dramatically. He has no idea what made his best films work. His tampering with the Alien mythology also confirms to me that by implying that Deckard is a replicant, he was clueless as to what made Blade Runner thematically resonant and emotionally affecting (a human being taught a lesson in humanity by machines) but I may get to that later this year.

Prometheus started out as a straightforward Alien prequel but then ambition and pretention got the better of Scott. By ordering various rewrites he attempted to skew it towards a 2001-style meditation on the origin of mankind, which ended up more Erik Von Däniken than Stanley Kubrick. The film is a mess but a frequently beautiful mess with a more epic visual reconception of the Alien imagery and a few well realized set pieces, even if dramatically it doesn't work.

After that film came in for criticism for being neither a successful philosophical science fiction epic nor an effective creature feature, with Covenant he is trying to steer the films back towards its horror roots, but the result ends up even less satisfying. Lacking the visual grandeur of Prometheus, he repeats many of that movie's mistakes, most notoriously characters making decisions so dumb, you can't help losing sympathy for them. He bungles the climactic plot twist which is obvious the first time the movie visually hints at it and largely recycles imagery and scenarios which have become overfamiliar during the course of four Alien movies and two spin-offs. With its budget-friendly forest imagery, Covenant often resembles AvP Reqiem, the worst and most cynical film to ever feature the xenomorphs. Remember when Scott cut the grisly Dallas cocoon scene because it disrupted the tension of Alien's last act ? Now he finds time to shoehorn an out-of-nowhere "sex in the shower" scene into the action climax. It resembles the 80s Roger Corman Alien rip-offs more than the real thing.

There is one striking, if on-the-nose visual reference of Böcklin's Isle of the Dead where Scott tries something visually beautiful but otherwise the film looks dull. The flashback to the fate of the engineers is particularly ugly looking, with Scott recycling the "cast of a thousand digital extras" imagery of his misbegotten Exodus.

With exception of the androids, the characters are as poorly conceived as those in Prometheus. Now we have two films where everybody would have saved themselves a lot of grief had they kept on their helmets on an unexplored planet. David was the one character of interest in Prometheus but here the philosophical discussions between David and his benign doppelgänger Walter stop the film dead just as it has decided to settle for being a creature feature. There are interesting ideas in there but they would have been better served in a film separate from the Alien franchise. And of course the film never solves its biggest problem: Why would we ever want the mysteries of Alien explained ?

I watched Life a few days ago, a film content with being "Alien meets Gravity" but not burdened by failed conceptual ambitions, is a far more entertaining Alien spin-off than Covenant and as a bonus, it doesn't bungle its final twist.

Last edited by Lost Highway on Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

On a related trivia note: I remember reading reports that after her star-making, kick-ass turn in the last Mission Impossible movie, the production wanted Rebecca Ferguson as the female lead for Covenant, but Life had already nabbed her for its space-set creature feature. While it would be unfair to blame Katherine Waterston for the ways in which the writing lets her character down, it's clear how the comanding Ferguson would have been a more suitable heir to Ripley. Waterston isn't bad but she has a deer-in-the-headlights look about her, which doesn't make her a natural survivor. The always interesting Amy Seimetz is assigned the Lambert role in Covenant, with an extended scene where she gets to run around and panic but she has a cool-girl edge which may have been a better fit for the lead.

It's really not what the headline seems to state - it basically is just saying that after Alien: Awakening they'll be planning on starting a new story set after the first Alien. Which isn't exactly surprising. He doesn't say they'll be remaking it or starting from scratch.

Scott had been going on for a while now that he planned making five or six more Alien films. The first three were to be prequels and then they were to move after the events of Alien. But all of that predates the underwhelming performance of Covenant.