Lou Marson article

Sam Donnellon has a nice article with some quotes from Lou Marson. Lou talks about the excitement about a possible callup. Then of course we get the comments from the Phillies front office on the potential callup of Marson and Donald here.

Next up for Donald and Marson is more time in the Eastern League, then consideration for a September call-up to the Phillies, although neither is a good bet.

Hey Mike. The big league club has gotten a combined .246/.325/.366 battling line from the C spot this year, I think there might be a need. And you know, Jason Donald’s bat might come in handy, considering the robust .214/.297/.291 line Eric Bruntlett has compiled.

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66 thoughts on “Lou Marson article”

Gillick talked yesterday, It sounds as if Jaramillo will be up in September as he mentioned that A catcher would be called up. So that would be Jaramillo barring injury. He did mention Marson as possible for 2009. Donald may actually get called up but that is somewhat of a long shot also, but more realistic over Marson as he is playing as well as or better than the other infield prospects/fillers playing at AAA.

I think its kind of odd that the organization has faith in Jaramillo. His .256/.322/.372 line at AAA isn’t much more impressive than the line our catchers are putting up now in the majors. I’ve been to about 10 IronPigs games this year, and he hasn’t been too impressive with the glove. I know I have seen quite a few terrible throwing errors by him.

I think it’s time to see what we’ve got in Jaramillo. I think the emergence of Marson has made many of us forget that Jaramillo has the abilities to be a very good back-up catcher. A star? No. A solid hitting, solid defensive back-up hitter? Yes. I love the idea of having a switch-hitting catcher.

He’s been stuck on a horrible team this year in LHV and I think deserves the opportunity.

With that said, I don’t understand why they don’t call up Marson. They’re going to have to put him on the 40-Man Roster this winter to protect him and it’s not like his service time is going to skyrocket due to 1 month of playing time. I think he’s such a great option to start with the team out of ST next year that getting his feet wet now would be a huge benefit to all those involved.

It’s not one month of service time. My understanding is that once you bring the kid up, however long he’s up for, the service clock starts ticking. Bring him up for one game, and that’s one less year you have him cheaply. Any time spent per year in the majors means one less year of control for the organization. Is that incorrect?

The service clock depends on the number of days on the major league roster. Players become arbitration eligible after 3 years except for what is called super 2 players. This is the top 17% of 3rd years players and usually kicks in with service time of 2 years and roughly 130-140 days. This is why teams sometimes bring up a player after mid-May, because that is when the super 2 eligibility would fall for a player consistently in the majors over the next 3 years.

There is not much downside to bringing Donald up for a month. Assuming he is in the minors for at least half of next year he would not be arbitration eligible till at least 2012. What does start immediately is his option clock. The team would have to use its first of three options next Spring if they sent him down to the minors. This year would not count as an option because he would not be sent down again.

Donald should have been called up instead of Tracy…I’m sorry but Tracy sucks…there’s a reason he’s 34 and in AAA. He’s an org guy like Cervenak…and worse all he can play is 1B. We don’t need a lefty 1B…we already have one named Howard.

aksmith: What you’re thinking of is options, not service time. However options are burned when a player is sent down, so adding a player to the 40-man roster and calling him up for September doesn’t burn an option.

This is all so frustrating. I do think it is being governed, to some extent, by the arbitration clock and it’s a shame. It’s as though a player has to wish to be bad enough to get a promotion. It’s all pretty pathetic in light of the fact that these two guys may be EXACTLY what the big league team needs. Give me a break – role the dice folks. The worst thing that happens is that they stall and start next year in Allentown. But if it works . . . it could be magic.

Most likely, however, what it will be is more of the Mike Arbuckle wet blanket treatment. And I like Arbuckle . . . but this is on the verge of getting nutty.

also, options go by years. you have 3 separate years that you can be called up/demoted without being exposed to waivers. so in the case of happ…he has been up to the majors in 2 separate years. so he has one more year that he can be demoted freely (likely to be 09)…but he could theoretically spend all of 09 in the minors and then use his last option in 2010 or something like that. in the case of a guy like burrell…he had two unused option years that were never used because he was called up once and never demoted. although im sure the clock has run out on being able to demote him freely, at this piont.

i honestly thought golson had a chance to be called up when jenkins went down because he would be perfect as a defensive replacement for burrell because he has great defense and great arm, also it would give him some ML experience, especially since reading is not going anywhere and there is only 1 week left in their season

Jaramillo will be up, since his abysmal first month he’s hit .287. I’m sure he’ll get a couple at bats, so I’ll be interested to see what he can do.

I’m almost certain Golson will be up in a Michael Bourn role off the bench. But I guess you never know, they could call up Watson or someone else instead.

I understand the Tracy move, they needed a left hander off the bench and it’s not like they have many options there. So & Bruntlett can play the outfield so they can afford to have someone like Tracy just to pitch hit. He’s got some power so if he gets a hold of the ball he can hit it out.

Oh I forgot to mention, I like everyone else wish they’d call up Donald & Marson just to see what they can do. They’ve both had phenomenal years and I think could have some success on the major league level. Both of them have great approaches at the plate, and won’t go up hacking 1st pitch.

Andy Tracy was a smart call up. They needed another lefty bat. They only need him for PH duty. Super sub Bruntlett can play everywhere. He has the best OBP and OPS of anyone at LHV. He Ks alot but also has 60 BBs (he walked last night for the Phils). And you can’t discount his ability to knock it out of the park.

As for Sept. call ups. Jaramillo gets the call for sure. His switch hitting ability and defensive skills will give a lot of flexibility. Robles is on the 40 man roster. Smith has been shut down to get Robles a lot of reps at 2B and he can play SS. His bat is minimal though. Bohn and / or Thompson will get the call. Bohn’s on the 40 man too. His defense is very, very good. In his 5 games with the Phils this year he had at least 2 assists as a late inning replacement for Burrell. If he could only hit his weight. Thompson has the better bat and very good defensive skills. Watson deserves the call but 3 extra OF’s might be too much. No playing time for anyone. Cervanek will probably be brought up for his bat.

Marson and Donald deserve the call but I’m not sure they’ll get it. It’s okay though because they should both get a look in ST next year. They’ll probably start the year in AAA but it won’t be long after that. The Phils should be able to trade a catcher (Ruiz or Jaramillo). If Jason has a good September, his stock will rise. If he doesn’t, we know him as a switch-hitting defensive catcher and that has some value.

At any rate—-Bohn,Robles,Tracey and Cervenack will be released at year end to free roster space.
I saw in another post that Golson was named in BA as top baserunner in Eastern League. For those who have seen him–does he have good insticts ala Scott Rolen.

One other note on the three option years. Getting sent to the minors out of Spring Training also counts. Basically if someone is on the 40-man roster it requires an option to send them to the minors at any point. Thus Happ would use his 3rd and final option next year if he does not make the team out of Spring Training.

As for Donald, this is his 3rd year in the system. He does not need to be put on the 40-man roster until after next season. Thus we would use his first option next year (1 year earlier than necessary) if we called him up in September.

I think Donald has shown enough to merit the callup, but it is probably not a huge deal as there is not lots of playing time available. Donald is probably not much of an offensive upgrade over Feliz/Dobbs. Remember his stats are from AA. He may be an offensive upgrade in a year or two, but not now. He also is not going to play over Rollins or Utley. I think he’d be called up in a nanosecond if one of those two got hurt. So the question if really Bruntlett. Donald is a little better hitter but Bruntlett is a little better defensively. I’d probably call Donald up to get him a taste of the big leagues and see if he is ready for Bruntlett’s role next year. But it really is not a huge deal as he would not play much. Catcher will be the more interesting decision, though I suspect they will just call up Jaramillo.

some good posts, especially bigtitan123, but if i hear one more time that donald is not an upgrade over brunlett ill go nuts. as far as being a pitch hitter when did that become the next step to hell. ill take donald as a ph just like dobbs. as far as hitting if youve watched donald he has a great eye not a sucker for the deuce. by the way as usual im at the game last night and who is used to hit in the 11th. our ace, it is ridiculous not to have a player to hit in that situation, not to mention imagine hamels taking a high fastball off the hand. bellman the last thing we need is a lh bat.

I am a big fan of Donald like others here, but let’s remember he is in AA. I suspect that Donald is a little better with the bat than Bruntlett now, but he is probably worse on defense. While he has been great offensively in AA, the majors are a completely different thing. I would suspect he can put up a .700 OPS on offense right now. That is better than Bruntlett, but not really better than the mercs who can be called up Sept 1 from AAA to be pinch hitters (Cervenak, Snelling, Tracy).

It is just not a big deal for Donald to be called up if he is not going to play much SS as there are probably better PH options, especially if Jenkins is healthy in a couple of weeks. Frankly, it might help the team to delay the arbitration and option clocks that were discussed here. Why start them for 5 AB in September if you don’t have to. AA is not the majors. It is a huge step to say that Donald would be a plus offensive player right now in the majors.

There is not one good reason that donald is not up with phillies in september. He has done everything to deserve the promotion. He comes out of a good college program.He has faced good competition. In spring training he look great why the phillies down play him is nuts.His only being at double aa only. Only two years in the minors doen’t hold water. This kid deserves the chance to be with the big club.so does marson. Golson should be filling the michael bourn role this september.

There are plenty of reasons to not call Donald up in September, just some people on this board don’t agree with them. The fact that the 40-man roster already has 40 men on it and Donald/Marson/Golsen aren’t one of those 40 is one big reason that I can see. Also, the fact that he probably won’t see much playing time is another. The team will probably make some moves in order to get 1 or 2 of these guys on the 40-man, (probably Golsen, Marson, Donald in order of usefulness to the big club). I don’t necessarily agree with the reasoning, but I’m also trying to be realistic.

If the Phils see him as a future major leaguer then there’s little reason to not call Donald up.

30 days on the arbitration clock is really nothing. I believe a year of service is 170 days. It’s very doubtful that he will be good enough to become a “Super Two”.

If he’d called up, his first option year will be his 24-year old year. His 3rd option would be in his 26-year old year. If Donald isn’t ready to be a major leaguer when he’s 27 (when he’d have no options) then it’s doubtful that he’ll ever be more than a fringe player anyway.

Sure, he wouldn’t get much playing time but it’s certainly more than he’d get sitting at home.

As the minor league season is almost over, he’s not missing any development sitting on the Phillies bench…hell practicing with the big leaguers would probably help him develop more now than playing in AA.

I would have thought that Slayden would have been better to add to the roster than Tracey since he gives us the solid lefthand bat off the bench and an outfielder. At age 26 they appear unwilling to give him a shot so options are not really in play.

If Donald is called up, it would cost the Phils about $65K — the prorated amount of the $390K league minimum. Also there is a minor league minimum for players on the 40 man roster with at least one day of major league service, so it would impact his minor league salary next year. Don’t think these seemingly insignificant dollars aren’t part of the equation.

Looks like we will probably have to go follow the Mesa Solar Sox managed by someone named Rocket Wheeler of the Braves organizatiion in the Arizona Fall League to see Marson and Donald play next. The Cubs, Tigers and Marlins will also contribute players to the Solar Sox. Though the rosters have not been announced. After the comments in Reading sounds like Marson and Donald will be getting over jet lag just in time to see the AA season end. The Solar Sox open the AFL season Oct. 7th against the Desert Dogs in Phoenix. In a Reading interview Steve Degler did said that Slayden is definitely headed for desert duty. Interesting to see what he can do there.

If it wasn’t for the FO’s recent comments on how Donald’s bat would play at 3rd, right now I’d be hoping he would be in instructs taking grounders at the hot corner in September instead of riding the bench in Philly. But I guess thats not happening, either.

Baseball Prospectus does a translation of minor league stats to Projected Major League performance. Its way over my head as a formula, and go to the website for an indepth review, but I’ll throw caution to the wind and assume it is the most accurate bellweather we have at the moment.
at any rate, the rate stats of prospects to be possibly called up go as such
Donald: .267 .339 .464
Marson: .278 .384 .373
Slaydon: .220 .288 .366
Golson: .252 .294 .407
Harman: .184 .245 .311

At any rate, those are this year’s projected stats. They run another set for “peak transalations” which estimate the highest projected value of a given player.

Most interesting thing is Slayden’s expected performance. I would have thought something maybe a little below league average-ish, but he’s practically a pitcher at the plate according to those projections. ouch

I am guessing the Baseball Prospectus projections are heavily age versus level related. Slayden’s age and having stats only in AA work against him. Few 26 year olds in AA suddenly get better and make the majors (and have more than a cup of coffee career). A 23-year-old like Donald is presumed to still be building his skills and thus has the tools that can play almost as well at higher levels.

Any formula like that has to make assumptions. It is possible that Slayden is one of the unique cases that has been held back in the minors through no fault of his own. Thus he might have managed similar numbers with a quicker rate of promotion. That is why I am a fan of challenging older players like Slayden with promotions to see if they are prospects. Donald got the double jump last year, probably because the team realized they should have started him at Clearwater anyway.

I like Slayden—–no speed but seems to have good at bats when I see him. Unfortunately I don’t think the Phillies even think of him although the above indications that he is destined for the fall league is a good sign. The big club is limited to Bruntlett and taguchi off the bench for the outfield when Dobbs starts at 3rd. Slayden is a better bat than either of those 2 or I will bake someone a cake🙂

Still, as I understand it, those are this year’s stats versus this years projected performance. clearly Donald’s Peak Transaltion, which is his peak projected value (i.e. his “career season”) should be higher than slayden’s. But I’m not entirely clear why Slayden’s numbers collapse onto themselves quite so severely. It could be a park factor at work, or perhaps a platoon split that is too heavy. I don’t know, but it’s still a mystery. Not to say that age is not a factor, but why would a 23 year old translate his stats better – in the moment, this year, in the same park against the same pitchers – than a 26 year old? Aren’t they hitting the same pitches?

It is very very sad the type of poor players the Phillies have on their 40 man roster. I don’t necessarily agree with calling up Marson because I think we need to give Jaramillo a shot. But, Donald, I mean it’s pretty simple. When everyone besides Dobbs on your bench is hitting .240 and below thats pretty sad. Without a doubt, Donald should be in phillies pinstripes in September. How could you get much worse than the phillies bench. What a summer that would be for Donald and Marson if they get called up. Help the US when Bronze in Beijing then, get called up in September and help the big league team win the division.

I think it is because the formula assumes a 23-year-old in AA has the tools to play at a higher level while a 26-year-old may not. Most 26-year-olds in AA are marginal players, so the formula is weighted against them. Just a guess.

The Reading Eagle announced today the Phils AFL pieces for the Mesa Solar Sox:

Marson and Donald are two of the eight players the Phillies will send to the Arizona Fall League to play for the Mesa Solar Sox. Also headed to the AFL are outfielders Jeremy Slayden and Quintin Berry, and pitchers Bisenius, Andrew Carpenter, Sergio Escalona and Patrick Overholt.

I think because of Marson’s ONE good season, everyone is forgetting about Jaramillo. Remember Jaramillo was the Phills 2ND round pick. The brass are no dumbies. They know that they have a solid catcher in Jaramillo who is on a tear the second half of the season. Historically, he starts off slow but look at his line on MILB.com. 400+ ABs with a solid .270 average and 8 HR. What catcher has had more ABs the last two season than Jaramillo? Not many at all. He’s a two-time AAA all-star and is as solid as they come. Named best defensive catcher last year. Not bad at all. His throwing has got him in trouble lately but I don’t believe agressiveness should be punished. He’s durable and hits. You’ll never get hurt with him in your lineup everyday. Marson is good but let’s not put too much pressure on him quite yet. Let’s just say that the Phils have two solid catchers for the future. Jaramillo is first and Marson will get his time. I actually believe Marson would be a better 3rd baseman.

.291 is solid for an everday catcher on a busted team. I’ve been a Jaramillo fan since his days at Oklahoma State. Check his stats there. Solid year in and year out. Marson is a good prospects but I honestly feel that the jury is still out on his all around defense. He’s a solid BASEBALL player but not specifically behind the dish. Jaramillo is a true catcher in all the sense of the word. Go Phillies!

In all this heat to call up a catcher, we are forgetting that Ruiz has been very very good in the 2nd Half…his avg is way up for the 2nd half and the pitchers love him. There is no burning need to callup a catcher to get alot of reps. Coste appears to ahve found his stroke again too. I’d like Jaramillo up as a bench guy simply because he’s a switchhitter and catcher so UC has a bunch of options in the later innings…not because Ruiz is playing poorly.

I totally agree NEEP. Switching hitting guy off the bench is huge. But you’re rigt Ruiz is not hurting you defensively. However, Jaramillo needs the exposure and then will settle in nicely next season. Coste is ok, but let’s face it he’s there because his book. How would it have looked if he got released or sent down. Not good for book sales at all. I think Jaramillo got the shaft because of that. But either way, the Phils are sitting very good knowing that catching will no longer be a burden…

I agree that Jaramillo will be the first catcher called up, if they indeed feel the need for one. However, Ruiz is doing fine, and Coste is hitting .272/.324/.453 in the majors while Jaramillo is hitting .270/.338/.380 in AAA. Coste has definitely been superior offensively to Jaramillo this year. If Jaramillo gets called up, he’s not going to play much.

Also, Marson has now had TWO good years – last year he hit .288/.373/.407 at Clearwater, which is a very good year for a young catcher. I have never seen him play, so I cannot personally comment on his defensive ability. However, the few services that provide information on these things seem to think he is fine defensively. At this point Marson definitely projects as a better MLB catcher than Jaramillo.

PHAN, I completely disagree. He may “project” as a better overall hitter but as a catcher versus Jaramillo — no chance! A MLB catcher supposedly need not hit to be considered a topline catcher. Jaramillo is much more reliable than Marson anyday. Sorry. Heard of the Molinas?

While Marson has caught the SAL 06 champs; the 07 FSL champs and the 08 Bronze Medal Olympic team, Jaramillo has caught the two of the worst AAA teams in baseball in 07 the Ottawa Lynx; and in 08 the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs.

Stevie, sorry for the confusion. To be clear, in my last sentence I meant “MLB catcher” from an offensive and defensive standpoint (obviously not what I said, but it is what I meant). I have not seen either player in person, so I cannot judge for myself who is better behind the plate. However, I have not heard anything that makes me think Marson is less than adequate behind the plate, and he is superior offensively to Jaramillo. Marson is also 3.75 years younger, so he projects as a better all-around MLB catcher than Jaramillo.

I have indeed heard of the Molinas, and I dare say that if Jaramillo could catch like them he would already be in the majors (he is only three months younger than Yadier).

If the Phils gave him a shot at the MLB he’d be a solid MLB player. Lookup Molinas minor league numbers — not so hot. Much easier to catch big league pitchers than minor league guys. Ya think? I’d give Jaramillo kudos for catching a staff that is below mediocre.

how is jaramillo much more reliable than marson when hes been stuck in AAA for years cuz he cant hit, marson is no slouch behind the plate and throws plenty of runners out, basically what im saying is just because some of the molinas had bad years in the minors it now means jaramillo is going to be solid in the MLB, what numbers in jaramillo’s minor league career suggest he will be a solid MLB player

Stevie: What are your reasons for thinking that Jaramillo is so much better of a catcher than marson?, Jaramillo is catching a pitching staff that is below mediocre, have u seen reading’s pitching staff lately

I agree that Marson is the better long-term prospect overall but don’t get the reasoning behind the argument that Jaramillo is somehow diminished or Marson is elevated because of who he is catching.

A catcher handles whoever is on the staff. That fact that Jaramillo hasn’t been surrounded with top prospects is hardly his fault or an indication of his abilities. Happ seemed to do quite well pitching to him this year and Carrasco has made a smooth transition. Sorry but J. Bench isn’t going to turn JD Durbin and company into pitching studs.

Jaramillo appears to have the makings of a solid ML catcher, nothing spectacular, but as a swith-hitting catcher who can play good defense, he should have a nice ML career..

jamarillo is an interesting prospect. i tend to agree with 3up3kkk (a solid ml catcher) over NEPP (an above average back up).
1. i think that his bat is a bit underated. he is quietly putting up a very good AAA year. take away his horrible april start and he consistently hit between .286 and .295 every other month, with an ob% that is consitently 70/80 points higher. his lefty split bothers me though

2. as noted he seems to hold his own on defensive.

3. the bar seems to be so low for the catcher position. so hitting .250 with occasional pop, drawing walks and playing good defense seems to make you an average mlb catcher. i think these are doable for him.