Lots of news from the first few hours of the PDC. First off, in the first CTP of Vista, the sidebar has been revived. "The Sidebar will be populated with "gadgets" and will feature an open platform for developers to create their own mini-applications. Sidebar gadgets can be dragged onto the desktop, and interact with standard Windows applications." Also, "Microsoft Max lets you make lists of your photos and turn them into beautiful slide shows to share with your family and friends. Max is the codename for Microsoft's flagship application based on WinFX and Microsoft's new user experience." Images from the PDC here, and you can watch Bill Gates' keynote here. Also, MS released beta 2 of Monad.

Yeah, it looks like a wanna be rip-off of KDE's Plasma by some amateur. They still have a long way to go.

With the only difference that Vista/Longhorn is much older than plasma.

Better attempt at a troll, please.

Yeah, ofcourse Longhorn is much older than pretty much anything currently on the market because it took such a long time to get it out.
How old is Windows Gadgets though, I sure hadn't heard of it before today. Please provide appropriate dates/facts rather than just insults.

Something doesn't start to exist the day you hear of it. One could guess MS has been working on this for at least a year, if not many more. They have had the side bar thing in there since the very earliest days of longhorn. Clearly they are just unveiling more things over time.

Before today I hadn't heard of plasma, guess it was created today too.

Or one could guess it's the product of two weeks of work because the last few years were laying out the needed libraries to support quick building of gadgets.
It's amazing how easy it is to build gadgets when you wrote the support library... And someone else does the artwork .

With the only difference that Vista/Longhorn is much older than plasma.

KDE and Plasma are available now for the general public

is vista/longhorn ?

it is a game Micorosoft has been playing for years, get something to market first and people think you invented it
get something loads of exposure with your name on it, and people will think you invented it.

BUT nowadays, they are seen to be playing catch-up with everything they do.
I cannot wait until Vista hits the stores, because by that time, my linux desktop will simply be astounding.

When Vista comes out your linux desktop won't be any better than it actually is.
KDE4 won't be out at least until October 2006 or even later. Xgl won't be ready for two or three years and GNOME won't do anything to make their desktop look better (only two versions remains to be out before Vista hist the market and in none of them there's a "redesign the desktop").
At the time Vista comes out, Linux will be behind because we don't have the base framework needed to do things like Vista and OSX do.

"Without implying anything, I just noticed that the gadget-system seems quite similar to what KDE wants to do with Plasma "

No, it isn't. This "gadget" system is a lot more like the WindowMaker dock or the Fluxbox Slit than KDE Plasma. Plasma's design goal is to use the desktop as a high-level task management interface. It isn't about borderless mini-applications with non-HIG-compliant interfaces that you can drag around the screen. It's about making sense out of the categories of tasks for which users commonly use their computers.

More on topic: why have a dedicated sidebar area for the widgets if they can be positioned anywhere on the desktop? Are there any restrictions on what else you can do with the screen real estate owned by the sidebar?

"More on topic: why have a dedicated sidebar area for the widgets if they can be positioned anywhere on the desktop? Are there any restrictions on what else you can do with the screen real estate owned by the sidebar?"

Good point! Well in previous version then called Longhorn the side bar was meant to be a good thing that allow quick access and useful stuff. But with the sidebar vanishing for a while have MS re-invented the sidebar again? if not then thats ok im sure it can be changed to something else. If not then you can turn off the side bar and you get the text bit of space for something interesting.

But do note within a few years 23-30 inch monitors etc will be standard etc so you wont miss that much screen space.

I'll refrain from commenting about why I'm skeptical about your claim that large monitors will be standard with regards to even desktop computers since more notebooks are being sold than desktops these days, and it should be fairly obvious to anyone that 23-30 inch monitors aren't going to be standard for notebooks any time soon. I agree that screen real estate is precious for the vast majority, and it will remain so even if some are able to upgrade monitors for their desktops.

The way that I could see some of this changing is if laptops had the option to wirelessly "dock" to a large high definition telivision as a monitor when not traveling. Until that becomes an option I think that concerns about screen real estate are valid especially for laptop owners.

Did you say the same thng about Picassa, Picassa2, Photoshop Album, et. al., or do you think you're cool for making an overly simplistic and grammatically incorrect statement about a Microsoft product?

Oooh, Apple had the *brilliant* idea to make a user-friendly photo database in the era of digital cameras! THEY'RE GENIUSES! Never mind the fact that big media corporations and stock photography houses have had such technology indexing their in-house archives for longer than you can possibly imagine.

"Oooh, Apple had the *brilliant* idea to make a user-friendly photo database in the era of digital cameras! THEY'RE GENIUSES! Never mind the fact that big media corporations and stock photography houses have had such technology indexing their in-house archives for longer than you can possibly imagine."

Brilliant in the fact that it's easy to use, works as advertised and inexpensive. How does Cumulus compare to that?

I think a "good" sidebar/dashboard would be nice I use alot of programs that I open and close periodicly all the time because I prefer order, a nice calculator and calender with maybe say an rss feed and intergrated instant messengers with dynamic contact lists that hide unless you mouse over

I have no problems with a sidebar. I'm probably one of the few that think they can be useful with the right "gadgets" in them. I think Google's sidebar is pretty good, but I wish it was more configurable or had a widgets/gadgets system that I could pick my own and customize with.

You activate the widget menu by clicking/hovering on a panel icon, hitting a screen corner, or pressing a hotkey (user preference). A strip slides out from any side of the screen (preference) containing icons and simple names for any available widgets. Mousing over an icon expands the widget and clicking makes it stay on top until you click the icon again. You can click on more icons to have more widgets expand simultaneously. It should be possible to configure particular widgets to be expanded by default upon activating the widget strip. All widgets should use a standardized subwidget set and comply with a few basic HIG conventions. Triggering the same activating event again causes it all to retract.

Advantages: Never have to hide open windows to use widgets. Can use widgets and regular applications simulaneously. Can have lots of available widgets without crowding the widget display.

This could also be used in conjuction with a system like Plasma, since it doesn't hijack the desktop.

I watched the keynote for as long as I could handle. It's very slow moving, a lot of marketing speak; I don't recommend it. Vista looks good. Their search solution looks more flexible than Spotlight. I think the new Explorer with all the new search features will be much copied. There's thumbnail previews when you mouse over minimised windows now; I'm not sure whether that would be useful or annoying.

The new sidebar is not the old sidebar; it doesn't seem to be the same platform for alerts/etc, it's just "gadgets" now. I think what must've happened is sidebar was dropped, and then this new sidebar was added as an "answer" to Dashboard. I don't think they're serious about it. Their answer to Expose looks ridiculous, it just stacks the windows at an angle, covering them up even more. I don't understand what they're trying to achieve with that.

It's a nice step forward, but there still aren't any must have end-user features beyond integrated search and the graphics enhancements (the theme might be of dubious value but the GPU-based scalable graphics are genuine step forward, IMO). We're getting closer to a locked feature set and I get the feeling we're not going to see much more than this.

MS is trying to play catch up with Apple's OS X. By the time MS releases Vista. Apple with have moved on, to bigger and better things, Linux with have achieved parity, and MS will still be the same old and tired OS.

"MS is trying to play catch up with Apple's OS X. By the time MS releases Vista. Apple with have moved on, to bigger and better things, Linux with have achieved parity, and MS will still be the same old and tired OS."

The PC OEM's love Microsofts ass for coming up with something with insane hardware requirements. It generates sales.

It's going to be really tough to convince oem's to promote Linux etc., with Microsoft about ready to float their boat for the next 36 months.

I've been wanting a good sidebar ever since I started using IM's and MP3-players in the late mid 90's. Having small windows scattered around for such apps just didn't make sense to me.
I started making a sidebar called "Zenbar" for BeOS four years ago but got caught up with other things so I never finished it. I'm glad these things are starting to show up in major systems, since they are really useful in my opinion. At least as long as the implemtation is good. Let's see how it works out in the final release of Vista.

I have been sketching on a new little GUI-concept I have which will include a sidebar. If I ever make a working product out of it I will be pretty happy that Vista includes one since it will make it easier for users to grasp the idea of a sidebar.

To be fair it looks like MS has taken a good look at what people (ab)use Powerpoint for and created something useful. Just a shame the net will be probably flooded with MsMax-files only readable to windows users.

The real question is "Did you figure that out with a Konfabulator calculator widget, Dashboard calculator widget, Plasma calculator widget, or Vista calculator gadget?" Your answer can brand you in a certain way for the rest of your life. Answer carefully.

Stuck in a bind they are, is what Yoda would say. Linux is cheaper, OS X is pecieved as being superior, so M$ is finding it hard to win on any front. Sure, everyone is copying everyone else on the widget front, but why is it that Microsoft doesn't innovate any more. You'd think that if you had the security of knowing that every new PC sold will have your OS on it like it or, you'd willing to say, here is a new idea and right or wrong we felt we had to go in this direction. It's not like people are going to go all Firestone on M$ if some of ther ideas flop. Apple keeps saying we did it first and Linux keeps saying I'll do it cheaper, but what is Microsoft saying?

It's not like people are going to go all Firestone on M$ if some of ther ideas flop. Apple keeps saying we did it first and Linux keeps saying I'll do it cheaper, but what is Microsoft saying?

What they should be able to say is : you've used our products for 10 or more years, you know us, just trust us to deliver. Ironically, with the reputation they've built with their customers over the years, that's the one thing they can't say (without a media backlash and pr disaster)

Microsoft: Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Apple: Can do no wrong, except that Macs are too expensive -- whaaaaa!
Linux: Perfect in every way, and could not possibly be improved at all, because it is PERFECT AND BECUASE I SAY SO AND TEH GNU IS TEH BESTEST AND M$ SUX0RZ1!1!1!!!

In all fairness. Everyone says that about everything. It's called a differing range of opinion from different people.
It's when the same person does it and won't admit to having changed his views on things that you've got a problem.

>>>I'll refrain from commenting about why I'm skeptical about your claim that large monitors will be standard with regards to even desktop computers since more notebooks are being sold than desktops these days, and it should be fairly obvious to anyone that 23-30 inch monitors aren't going to be standard for notebooks any time soon. I agree that screen real estate is precious for the vast majority, and it will remain so even if some are able to upgrade monitors for their desktops.

It's more about the shape of the computer monitor that will determine the UI, rather than the absolute size of them. Co-incidentally, we have today both the news about the UI of Windows Vista and Office 12. Both of them are going to maximize the use of the wide screen format.

People used to complain about XP's fat start menu (when they had 800x600 monitors). This too will pass.

-- OS Gui design increasingly involves stuff that gets in the way of applications. Give me a blank screen like Fluxbox or Windowmaker any day.

-- WP design increasingly involves stuff that gets in the way of actually writing anything - more and more space being taken up by page layour elements. Lyx looks better and better with every Word or OO release.

Is this something to do with Marketing's desire to target the systems at new users? Thereby making something that drives experienced users crazy after 10 minutes? The thing I really want the OS to do is get out of the way of the applications, and the thing I want the application menus and toolbars to do is get out of the way of my writing!

makes me tired. Please, Vista ISN'T looking good, it looks somehow interesting experimental graphical eye candies, but sorry - it is nor functional, nor looks that it will be fast on my Athlon XP 1800+, and I can see all these features will be switched off.

Linux trolls - you know why I use Linux? Why lot of people using Linux? Because it simply works. yeah, it lacks features, but what it can do, it do it VERY well. And that's the main point. It is software for job to do - not to entertain you in visual appeal.

Windows still tends to be visually bloated, even in Windows XP version. Most cleaner and best interface was for Windows 2000. I still wonder why Microsoft have chosen this way (visual mess) to deal with GUI.

Another 'PC Expert' and his vast knowledge of computing history, oh yeah Macs are not computers so its OK your ignorant.

You nut. He was proving a point by saying that, if one was to say the Sidebar was ripping Plasma off, it would be as stupid as saying that Dashboard is ripping Konfabulator off. You didn't contradict what he said, you just strengthened it (and then insulted him).