I like Holloway and hope he's in the movie but I kind of don't see him as Zemo or a lot of major villains. I'd actually rather see him as a hero eventually.

What if they're leaning towards using Holloway for someone that's not Zemo or a villain the whole time?

Maybe Holloway's not up for the role of Zemo or anyone like Modok and instead they'll alter his hair a little and he'll be an ex-convict named Simon Williams who Crossbones and Zola/Zemo interact with. Not really a villain, necessarily. Maybe he did something really small and got caught but ended up in prison or on the wrong side of the law. Sort of like his character in Lost. And becomes Zola/Zemo's next test subject and much more as part of an experiment about the nature of transferring consciousness. Zola is already half machine but his technology is only keeping him alive. As a cyborg at this stage.

So he needs his mind to become completely one with the machine to continue outliving time... He forces Simon and Terrington into a better mixture of biological-machines intended to keep him alive longer and designed only to compute. Including a stage that involves turning their consciousness into an ion beam. Simon having some characteristics of a living laser for awhile. They force Simon into it to see if it's possible to transfer consciousness from one thing to another and it shoots back into Williams. In the process this backfires and creates Wonderman out of the machine, who becomes somewhat destructive with his new found gifts like Tetterington would on the show. Tetterington would become one of Shield's main problems, while Simon would be around for a while longer and possibly shows up in Avengers 2 for a huge battle where Falcon returns for just that part of the movie.

I hope Zemo does show up and maybe they throw a little pre-transformation Modok and Wonderman in there like this that could be expanded on in the Shield show or later films.

Well he'd be a minor villain but then end up joining the Avengers due to some latent psychic abilities Falcon has that end up going beyond birds to energetic beings.

In some ways it would be like combining Crimson Dynamo and Whiplash.
But here Wonderman's early aggression towards the Avengers is mixed with a little bit of Living Laser. And more of a minor threat that quickly becomes an ally. Cap can deflect energy attacks with the Shield.

So he'd basically be Living Laser while he's a villain, but then he would turn good to help the Avengers.

He'd still be sort of against the Avengers at first (taking on Cap, Shield, Falcon and Widow). But he would quickly become the ally that he is in the comics as he reverts back to a normal state.

So when he was Living Laser-like they'd know it was just the side effects of some of AIM/Zola's technology and the amount of energy estimated needed to transfer a consciousness... He'd remain a neutral sort of character and was an embezzler, sort of like Holloway's con-man character on lost. The other actor has a similar look.

With Baron Zemo funding it all but not really seen, possibly masked and staying behind the scenes.

So instead of Zemo rescuing this embezzler from prison, the Baron has been funding AIM (secretly Hydra) for a number of years. Simon was left in charge of one of their subsidiaries that went broke and in a desperate attempt he embezzled from his own company. Not knowing it was part of AIM's huge network of businesses previously trying to corner Stark Industries. And Zemo catches Simon Williams by extension embezzling from AIM.

Instead of sending him to prison, he sends him to Zola. Promises him super powers in exchange for his service and intends far worse, but this is what Williams gets.
When first unleashed he would mainly do his damage to AIM, because he's not quite himself in laser form.

They intended to trap him in the machine like they did to Modok/George Tetterington who helped guide Killian towards mandarin's form of Extremis. Cyborg-like beings would have already entered the story and part of the goal of Extremis was for AIM and Zola to make this technology widespread.
Mandarin's form of extremis and Killian breaking away from Tetterington and turning against him when he was scientist supreme is just one small part of Zemo's overall plan to resurrect Hydra.

Zola has to at least be a cyborg if he's still alive and hasn't aged much...
Unless he's traveled time which is unlikely for him to do.

This also means that Sebastian Stan has not aged and his lack of aging has to be explained...
Winter Soldier has not gotten any older, so some explanation has to be given. He could have been frozen of course, but part of his story may have had him in active duty while Hydra/Aim was operating in Russia.

I'm circling it but I don't wanna say for sure.
Nick Fury and Black Widow may be more than meets the eye and the last of the attempts at the old form of super soldiers...

Extremis is sort of a new technological form of the super soldier program. The Extremis soldier program...

Like in the comics Mandarin/Killian's form of Extremis might actually be an updated attempt to create super soldiers... and in this case secretly part of Zola and Zemo's overall plans.

Meaning Williams has really been involved with the Masters, but he doesn't know them, or know them as such yet. Mandarin and possibly Radioactive man have shown up already, and end up linked to Zemo through AIM. Then we have Crossbones.
And a few other potential masters out there.

In the comics Enchantress frees Williams from prison after he's caught embezzling, but here I'd save enchantress for when they all get together with Loki.
And Skull of course. He did travel time if he returns in the present. Which wouldn't occur until around CA3 or Avengers 3.
If you want to look at it in terms of covering a lot of history over a few films this is like the proto-Masters of Evil team, with some of the earlier members. Why Cap will need a few allies. With Crossbones, Zola, and Zemo organizing things it would sort of be like a proto Masters of Evil movie already. Because Zola himself has been responsible for forming the Masters.

Bucky's lack of aging can very easily explained, just like it was in the comics: the Soviets (or most likely Hydra, in this film's case) keep him in suspended animation, taking him out only when he's needed for a mission.

Onto the topic of Simon Williams: he just doesn't fit. There's already so much going on, and the fact that the title of this film is The Winter Soldier pretty much tells us exactly the type of story they're telling (a story in which Wonder Man was 100% absent). If Holloway was up for something, it very well might've been the Crossbones role. If Zemo is in fact in the film, he'll most likely be played by a European actor. Remember, Marvel tends to be pretty incredible when it comes to casting, so there's no reason why they wouldn't get a great European actor who doesn't demand a high salary for Zemo.

Bucky's lack of aging can very easily explained, just like it was in the comics: the Soviets (or most likely Hydra, in this film's case) keep him in suspended animation, taking him out only when he's needed for a mission.

Onto the topic of Simon Williams: he just doesn't fit. There's already so much going on, and the fact that the title of this film is The Winter Soldier pretty much tells us exactly the type of story they're telling (a story in which Wonder Man was 100% absent). If Holloway was up for something, it very well might've been the Crossbones role. If Zemo is in fact in the film, he'll most likely be played by a European actor. Remember, Marvel tends to be pretty incredible when it comes to casting, so there's no reason why they wouldn't get a great European actor who doesn't demand a high salary for Zemo.

True. I hinted at that with the whole Zola/could have been frozen thing.

But then it's two or three characters that are like that. Spent time suspended. At the very least Zola is probably not human anymore to have kept him alive/suspended and moved him into Russian hands. He's the only one who could have done it. Then that raises the question what Zola did all that time, if he was still alive. Could be the russian's kept him frozen too. But any way I slice it I'm pretty sure Zola will be used and we'll see those robot body plans in the easter egg put to good use.

When part of Bucky is mechanical and Zola is involved with bio-mechanics in addition to the mechanical side of things at times. Plus there may be a cyborg angle to what Mandarin does with Extremis.

But it's about the big picture if they want to use Vision and be as accurate as possible further down the line, and how few movies there really are to cover so much comic history over a relatively short period of time. Plus adapting things to film and needing more/powerful villains for expanding casts and bigger sequels.

Zemo would most likely be there and not Holloway. I agree some European actor.

But the other actor, Coster-Waldau, not Grillo. Looks pretty close to Holloway. And I'm saying they may not be looking for Zemo. They may be looking for an ex-con type like Holloway's character on lost who could have also been an embezzler from the Baron, before being forced to work with them.

Zola is with the Baron because he wants the money to be able to fund AIM/Hydra's expensive things, a lot of advanced ideas like looking into ways to bring Skull back. Although Zola may be the true mastermind. Red Skull almost became a living laser in the first movie when he shot up to the sky, and item 47/The Avengers shows some energy stays in things and leftover hyrda tech still had the cube's power.

Because Zemo might not be enough of a physical threat alone for the whole team coming in and the real villain threats after Winter Soldier turns good could be Crossbones and Simon Williams/Wonderman. Part of how they turn Bucky's mind back to normal would relate to how they change him from a living laser back to normal to aim him at aim & get him aboard the Avengers for Thanos very quickly.

THANK YOU for posting those Sebastian Stan gifs. I knew he was in shape (from Political Animals), but... MRWOAR!! Between Mackie, Stan, Evans, Grillo and the possibility of Holloway or Coster-Waldau joining this cast, I demand shirtlessness. Much shirtlessness. Clothing optional for this flick.

Kidding. Kinda.

Great news about Toby Jones. I love him as an actor, even though the thought of Zola onscreen kind of scares me.

It's shaping up to be a veritable feast of eye-candy, isn't it? I agree, there have to be some fan service shirtless scenes, no matter how gratuitous. They can do a flashback to when Steve first emerged from the Vita-Ray machine, all glistening and newly-muscled, as well as some scenes of Bucky in HYDRA's clutches. Falcon should wear something close to his original sleeveless costume with tight spandex pants. I have faith in Marvel's costume designers; they do a great job of showcasing the male form.

__________________"It’s something that’s easy to take for granted, growing up in the United States as a white male, that my cinematic heroes look like me...It’s something that over the course of these ten years, having a certain amount of power over what type of movies are made and what type of actors we hire, I want everybody to have that feeling. We don’t take it for granted that people want to see themselves reflected in our heroes and our characters." ~ Kevin Feige

Bucky's lack of aging can very easily explained, just like it was in the comics: the Soviets (or most likely Hydra, in this film's case) keep him in suspended animation, taking him out only when he's needed for a mission.

Onto the topic of Simon Williams: he just doesn't fit. There's already so much going on, and the fact that the title of this film is The Winter Soldier pretty much tells us exactly the type of story they're telling (a story in which Wonder Man was 100% absent). If Holloway was up for something, it very well might've been the Crossbones role. If Zemo is in fact in the film, he'll most likely be played by a European actor. Remember, Marvel tends to be pretty incredible when it comes to casting, so there's no reason why they wouldn't get a great European actor who doesn't demand a high salary for Zemo.

I wouldn't mind someone like Mads Mikklesen in the role of Zemo. He was meant to be in Thor: The Dark World anyway. I can't remember why he dropped out. Was it because of his Hannibal Lecter TV series or scheduling conflicts with another movie? He'd be good for a lot of villains including Dr Doom.

As for Wonder Man, I agree, he doesn't fit at all. If he's going to debut anywhere just as a cameo, Iron Man would be the place to do it. He had a grudge against Stark as a result of the company profits going down and then, on the advice of his brother Eric Williams (the Grim Reaper) embezzling company funds where he gets arrested.

However, didn't Joss Whedon say that he would like to include many other Avengers in future, but one he specifically didn't want to use is Wonder Man because he doesn't like him? So I don't see that Simon Williams will feature into any Marvel movies in the future in any way, as long as Whedon is at the helm. So there goes the end of that matter, and LokiDionysos's ramblings on the matter.

__________________

Quote:

Anne Hathaway: "You did not just ask me that!! What a forward young man you are!!! My goodness!!"

Bucky's lack of aging can very easily explained, just like it was in the comics: the Soviets (or most likely Hydra, in this film's case) keep him in suspended animation, taking him out only when he's needed for a mission.

Onto the topic of Simon Williams: he just doesn't fit. There's already so much going on, and the fact that the title of this film is The Winter Soldier pretty much tells us exactly the type of story they're telling (a story in which Wonder Man was 100% absent). If Holloway was up for something, it very well might've been the Crossbones role. If Zemo is in fact in the film, he'll most likely be played by a European actor. Remember, Marvel tends to be pretty incredible when it comes to casting, so there's no reason why they wouldn't get a great European actor who doesn't demand a high salary for Zemo.

I was re-reading my Winter Soldier arc comics and there are two other plausible roles these actors (Coster-Waldau and Holloway) could have been cast in: Jack Monroe or Neal Tapper. Both are smaller parts, but they fit physically.

I am more and more convinced the outline of the movie is going to mirror this arc. It is SO cinematic, with some really great character stuff. *fingers crossed for a great movie*

I was re-reading my Winter Soldier arc comics and there are two other plausible roles these actors (Coster-Waldau and Holloway) could have been cast in: Jack Monroe or Neal Tapper. Both are smaller parts, but they fit physically.

I am more and more convinced the outline of the movie is going to mirror this arc. It is SO cinematic, with some really great character stuff. *fingers crossed for a great movie*

Coster-Waldu is a Danish actor (who can pull-off a British accent) it would make sense he'd take on a Strucker/Zemo.. along with Game of Thrones he played a solid villain in HEADHUNTERS

I personally think Zola will be behind Winter Soldier's creation , but that Zemo will be the mastermind villain in the end, being the one in control of him.

Possibly; they may save Zemo for Cap 3.
But I just seriously doubt the ability of Arnim Zola, android body and all, to captivate audiences as the head honcho. He seems more suited for a "mini-boss" for Cap to fight. They need a more charismatic villain like Zemo or Lukin or Strucker or Faustus to be the mastermind. Zola was just a pantywaist henchman in CATFA; nobody's going to believe in him as suddenly becoming a force to be reckoned with.

Possibly; they may save Zemo for Cap 3.
But I just seriously doubt the ability of Arnim Zola, android body and all, to captivate audiences as the head honcho. He seems more suited for a "mini-boss" for Cap to fight. They need a more charismatic villain like Zemo or Lukin or Strucker or Faustus to be the mastermind. Zola was just a pantywaist henchman in CATFA; nobody's going to believe in him as suddenly becoming a force to be reckoned with.

I imagine that Crossbones, Winter Soldier, and Zola will be side villains and Zemo will be the main. Kind of like how Kurse and Loki will be side villains to Malekith in TDW.

I know that Falcon has a fight with Winter Soldier in the movie. That leaves Crossbones, Zola, and Zemo for either Cap or both of them to handle(Not saying that Cap won't fight WS).

Actually, scratch that. I forgot that Black Widow and possibly Hawkeye are going to be in the movie, not to mention Nick Fury and SHIELD. That's a lot of heroes to go around, so the number of villains is perfect.

I can imagine Taskmaster, Strucker, Sin, Madame Hydra and the return of Red Skull for the third movie. Maybe throw in the Grim Reaper as well.

I imagine that Crossbones, Winter Soldier, and Zola will be side villains and Zemo will be the main. Kind of like how Kurse and Loki will be side villains to Malekith in TDW.

I don't remember if I mentioned the Star Wars analogy before, but here it is.

I think Bucky will be Darth Vader. Sinister, prominent, and with a connection to the hero that leads to his eventual redemption.

Zemo, Lukin or Strucker will be Emperor Palpatine. A true, unrepentant villain who drives the Vader's actions, and is ultimately responsible for wrongs done. However, he is less visible.

Crossbones will be a little like Tarkin, in being of comparable station to Vader. But mostly he'll be Bobba Fett, in receiving no true character development and just being intimidating and looking cool, but hopefully he gets to do something interesting.

Possibly; they may save Zemo for Cap 3.
But I just seriously doubt the ability of Arnim Zola, android body and all, to captivate audiences as the head honcho. He seems more suited for a "mini-boss" for Cap to fight. They need a more charismatic villain like Zemo or Lukin or Strucker or Faustus to be the mastermind. Zola was just a pantywaist henchman in CATFA; nobody's going to believe in him as suddenly becoming a force to be reckoned with.

that's how I was. He was almost pitiful. He certainly can't be a head villain

I don't remember if I mentioned the Star Wars analogy before, but here it is.

I think Bucky will be Darth Vader. Sinister, prominent, and with a connection to the hero that leads to his eventual redemption.

Zemo, Lukin or Strucker will be Emperor Palpatine. A true, unrepentant villain who drives the Vader's actions, and is ultimately responsible for wrongs done. However, he is less visible.

Crossbones will be a little like Tarkin, in being of comparable station to Vader. But mostly he'll be Bobba Fett, in receiving no true character development and just being intimidating and looking cool, but hopefully he gets to do something interesting.

I don't remember if I mentioned the Star Wars analogy before, but here it is.

I think Bucky will be Darth Vader. Sinister, prominent, and with a connection to the hero that leads to his eventual redemption.

Zemo, Lukin or Strucker will be Emperor Palpatine. A true, unrepentant villain who drives the Vader's actions, and is ultimately responsible for wrongs done. However, he is less visible.

Crossbones will be a little like Tarkin, in being of comparable station to Vader. But mostly he'll be Bobba Fett, in receiving no true character development and just being intimidating and looking cool, but hopefully he gets to do something interesting.

Zola? I think he'll show in flashbacks.

Your comparisons seem to be right on the money, but I think Zola will show up both in flashbacks and the present in a robotic body.