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I agree with this, although I admit that I still listen to them. The hope that you hear in Joachim Phoenix's voice when the 911 operator says something like, "they all do that" and Joachim asks, "yeah?" in that tiny little voice seems like far too personal a thing for me to have in my head.

Yes, I have listened to a lot of them. One of the most haunting was Denise Amber Lee. I'll never forget it. You can hear the terror and desperation in her voice.

I think it's human nature to not really understand what is going on for a few seconds until it clicks in your mind, the "I can't believe this is really happening factor." Unfortunately in The Station fire, the fire progressed so fast, those seconds were the difference between life or death. John Barylick also discussed in "Killer Show" another factor called the commitment phenomenon. People paid for their ticket, had a drink in their hand, had found a good spot to watch the show, and were reluctant to believe anything serious was happening and didn't want to lose their spot. The band was even still singing and playing for the first few seconds and nobody seemed to be doing anything different, so I can see why some people thought it could have been a part of the show. Those were seconds that a lot of the victims never got back.
Thanks for the article link, Mammy.
Here is a short article explaining it.

A couple of random comments. First, in the witness statement by survivor Jonathan Petrin, he states that he "recognized Jay Silvester, a person he knew from high school at the Station on the night of the fire and later saw Silvester's name on the list of deceased victims." This comment is bizarre because the name Jay Silvester is not even on the list of people in the Station, much less on the list of deceased. Is it possible this person was missed in the victim count?

I was thinking that too, but I'm pretty sure, that he meant Jason Sylvester, who is on the victims list. Maybe he hadn't seen him for a while and didn't remember his name correctly or they even used to call him Jay.

I would have to look everything up again, but I remember that some people stated that they were with Jason and that these people made it out of the atrium windows. I was wondering how close he himself might have been to making it out. Or maybe even made it, but as we know some victims were found outside...

One thing I noticed, if someone is interested:
I think we can maybe see Debra Wagner on the video. Usually when I watched the video I tended to only pay attention to the main entrance after it shows first. But if you try to ignore that and just pay attention to the area where the sunroom windows are you can see that there are quite some people still coming out of those windows. I was surprised when I saw that for the first time, because once Butler passes these windows on his way back towards the main entrance it doesn't look like anybody was coming out and I though it might have been to late already. But it looks like the windows were only broken even a few seconds later.
Well anyway, the girl falling on the floor coming out of that window might be Debra Wagner. She was on one of the documentaries too, she had helped Linda Fisher selling T-Shirts inside.

I was thinking that too, but I'm pretty sure, that he meant Jason Sylvester, who is on the victims list. Maybe he hadn't seen him for a while and didn't remember his name correctly or they even used to call him Jay.

I would have to look everything up again, but I remember that some people stated that they were with Jason and that these people made it out of the atrium windows. I was wondering how close he himself might have been to making it out. Or maybe even made it, but as we know some victims were found outside...

One thing I noticed, if someone is interested:
I think we can maybe see Debra Wagner on the video. Usually when I watched the video I tended to only pay attention to the main entrance after it shows first. But if you try to ignore that and just pay attention to the area where the sunroom windows are you can see that there are quite some people still coming out of those windows. I was surprised when I saw that for the first time, because once Butler passes these windows on his way back towards the main entrance it doesn't look like anybody was coming out and I though it might have been to late already. But it looks like the windows were only broken even a few seconds later.
Well anyway, the girl falling on the floor coming out of that window might be Debra Wagner. She was on one of the documentaries too, she had helped Linda Fisher selling T-Shirts inside.

You can hear women screaming when he passed the sunroom windows It might have been Debra and Linda.

In Linda's segment of the mini documentaries, she stated that she and Debra kept beating on the glass and it just wouldn't break, but someone outside heard them and broke the glass from the outside. It could have very well been Debra seen coming out of the window in the footage, Nodog.

I sure hope the women we hear screaming were amongst the ones who made it out at least... Although for some reason, the way these two appear in the documentation video, I have a hard time imagining Linda being the one screaming. She just seems to tough and says in the end that she hadn't even noticed what bad state she was in.
Although probably in that kind of situation you might not even notice yourself screaming :/

I have the biggest soft spot for Joe. He just seems like such an incredible person and I'm glad he is happy. He sure deserves it. His baby is beautiful and I loved the picture of his older daughter holding her little sister.

I was so happy to see an article on Joe in People. The video is still haunting. I hope they get the memorial built and that this is never forgotten. To many people died, all they wanted to do was have a night of fun and be with friends.

Last edited by pkstracy; 10-18-2014 at 09:47 PM.

"My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~
And It Harm None Do What ye will. Wise Intelligent Teacher Courageous Healer. #METOO

Love the story about Joe and the beautiful pictures of him with his lovely family... what an incredible person. There are no words to describe how wonderful it is that his life is filled with so much love... his strength, courage, and focus on life is so inspiring in every sense of the word.

Last edited by Cynful; 10-20-2014 at 09:50 PM.

Casper, I love you so much baby boy... waking up with you in the house is a blessing every day! Thank you for filling our home and hearts with so much love, joy, laughter and ever so sweet Sammy smiles! We belong together! XOXOX

In the article, it's interesting to read how even small reminders have a huge impact on life after surviving a fire. Candles, fireplaces, concerts...just the fear that something will spontaneously catch on fire. It's impact goes beyond that one night & it's physical injuries, doesn't it...

In the article, it's interesting to read how even small reminders have a huge impact on life after surviving a fire. Candles, fireplaces, concerts...just the fear that something will spontaneously catch on fire. It's impact goes beyond that one night & it's physical injuries, doesn't it...

It must be really hard living with so many things around that trigger the survivors and cause such fear and stress. They will likely be dealing with it for the rest of their lives.

Hey there! I'm so glad to see there is still some activity on this thread... I've only posted here once or twice, but I've followed the fire since the night it happened (I'm from RI, lived about 20 mins. from the Station at the time). I've recently gotten a renewed interest in the incident, so I've been re-poring through all these amazing posts, and I have some thoughts I'd like to throw out there:

1. Does anyone else think Mario Giamei was the guy who was described by witnesses as "swan diving" over the crowd of people, causing the pileup to worsen? He fits the description perfectly (from what I remember, they said it was a larger man with a leather jacket) and they even more or less asked him about it during his first witness statement. Of course, he denied it, but he strikes me as kinda douchey, and... well, cowardly?

3. What about Paul Vanner? Any insight as to whether HE actually was the one to give permission to GW for the pyro? After everything I've read, I honestly feel Dan Biechele DID get permission for it, it's just a matter as to from who. And Paul seems a bit smarmy.

4. As far as ID'ing people in the "before the show" video... when the guy is at the bar, giving the thumbs up with the two women next to him... doesn't the dark haired woman look like Kristen McQuarrie?kristen-mcquarrie__1361310102_1952-1.jpg

I apologize if some of this stuff has been discussed already... I'd love to hear some feedback on this, let's get this thread going again!

Best line (so far) in the grand jury testimony - when asked how close to the dressing room and band members she was standing, Donna Cormier replies "I remembered seeing Jack Russell close enough to think 'Wow, he is really old."

Oh, and since I don't think it's been said on this page... Scott V. is a prick.

It has always been interesting to me about who the three people are at the bar (the man and two ladies). As for Jack Russell, Donna Cormier had it right. He looked a lot older than he really was. Hard living.

The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

There is no one cause to blame for this tragedy. A bunch of screw-ups by a number of people led up to this event. Face it- we all do things that seem harmless (like running with scissors, riding a bike with no helmet,etc), but when something happens, you'd have the book thrown at you. Would I see Great White again? Probably (I saw them in Allentown one week before this fire). Great white isn't the only band to use or have used pyrotechnics in a small venue. Anyway, I'm a history buff mostly interested in local history, but I have fascinations with incidences like the 1903 Iroquois Theater fire that I've been studying for about 10 years now (the worst building fire in the US prior to 9/11) and the 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist fire. In studying the Iroquois Theater disaster, i read about people getting stuck in doorways and being found stacked like firewood and i used to wonder how can that happen or what were these people doing? And then I saw the videos on The Station.. I knew about this fire since the day it happened, but I just started really turning my attention to it in the past few days. To me, this tragedy has a "personal" connection. I mean I just saw this same band days prior using those exact same pyrotechnics in a similar club that I frequented packed with about the same density of patrons. And then there is a " before" video where you can totally relate to being one of those patrons in this place.

Being knowledgeable of some major building fires, every time I go into a place with a lot of people, I always wonder how I'm going to get out quickly if I need to. I was aghast when I first saw the video of the Station fire because I'm usually up near the front at small venue shows. You just think the likelihood of something like this happening is so low.. And then once the fire has started, there's a delay in reaction because 1) patrons are figuring it out that it's not part of the show and 2) should action be taken now or wait, even if it is only a couple seconds, to see if someone else in charge is going to do anything about it. I read where someone was criticizing Brian Butler for leaving without telling the other patrons to leave. With the setup and situations of The Station, it wasn't possible for everyone to get out. If Brian Butler would have yelled 'fire! Run!', a pile-up would have occurred sooner and more would have died. But anyway, I'm going to try to not let the detective in me come out and get too wrapped-up in The Station and this thread.

Hi all, it's been a while since I've posted. I agree with other recent posters that I hope this board picks up again. I believe we are honoring the victims by discussing this tragedy and keeping their memory alive.

By the way, since I last posted I've read Gina Russo's book. It's obviously not meant to be a crime analysis like Killer Show, but more of one person's story. Her tale of survivial is gripping, and being in the nursing profession herself she provides a lot of fascinating details about her treatment and recovery.

Originally Posted by CommanderAmander

Hey there! I'm so glad to see there is still some activity on this thread... I've only posted here once or twice, but I've followed the fire since the night it happened (I'm from RI, lived about 20 mins. from the Station at the time). I've recently gotten a renewed interest in the incident, so I've been re-poring through all these amazing posts, and I have some thoughts I'd like to throw out there:

1. Does anyone else think Mario Giamei was the guy who was described by witnesses as "swan diving" over the crowd of people, causing the pileup to worsen? He fits the description perfectly (from what I remember, they said it was a larger man with a leather jacket) and they even more or less asked him about it during his first witness statement. Of course, he denied it, but he strikes me as kinda douchey, and... well, cowardly?

3. What about Paul Vanner? Any insight as to whether HE actually was the one to give permission to GW for the pyro? After everything I've read, I honestly feel Dan Biechele DID get permission for it, it's just a matter as to from who. And Paul seems a bit smarmy.

4. As far as ID'ing people in the "before the show" video... when the guy is at the bar, giving the thumbs up with the two women next to him... doesn't the dark haired woman look like Kristen McQuarrie?

It's been really hard to ID people in the front doorway. Is the man you're talking about the one stuck near the bottom, who says "get off!" when Butler's camera first gets to the front door? He looks a little similar to the picture of Frederickson, but again it's hard to tell for sure. I also wonder about the man above him in the star shirt, and whether he made it out alive. He has been discussed before but never IDed.

As for others in the preshow video, I too am intrigued by the trio you mentioned. The guy giving thumbs up looks a little like Fred, Gina Russo's fiancee, but you can clearly see Fred and Gina near the stage amid the crowd earlier in the footage, and he's wearning a gray shirt while the thumbs up guy is wearing solid black. Anyway, this trio are among the clearest shots of faces in the preshow video, and I'm surprised we haven't IDed them yet. As for your speculation whether the brunette was Kristen McQuarrie, I can see the similarity. But it's hard to say for sure. We will probably need some kind of corroboration in the witness statements to help ID people like these in the video.

Originally Posted by Lt. Frank Drebin

There is no one cause to blame for this tragedy. A bunch of screw-ups by a number of people led up to this event. Face it- we all do things that seem harmless (like running with scissors, riding a bike with no helmet,etc), but when something happens, you'd have the book thrown at you. Would I see Great White again? Probably (I saw them in Allentown one week before this fire). Great white isn't the only band to use or have used pyrotechnics in a small venue. Anyway, I'm a history buff mostly interested in local history, but I have fascinations with incidences like the 1903 Iroquois Theater fire that I've been studying for about 10 years now (the worst building fire in the US prior to 9/11) and the 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist fire. In studying the Iroquois Theater disaster, i read about people getting stuck in doorways and being found stacked like firewood and i used to wonder how can that happen or what were these people doing? And then I saw the videos on The Station.. I knew about this fire since the day it happened, but I just started really turning my attention to it in the past few days. To me, this tragedy has a "personal" connection. I mean I just saw this same band days prior using those exact same pyrotechnics in a similar club that I frequented packed with about the same density of patrons. And then there is a " before" video where you can totally relate to being one of those patrons in this place.

Being knowledgeable of some major building fires, every time I go into a place with a lot of people, I always wonder how I'm going to get out quickly if I need to. I was aghast when I first saw the video of the Station fire because I'm usually up near the front at small venue shows. You just think the likelihood of something like this happening is so low.. And then once the fire has started, there's a delay in reaction because 1) patrons are figuring it out that it's not part of the show and 2) should action be taken now or wait, even if it is only a couple seconds, to see if someone else in charge is going to do anything about it. I read where someone was criticizing Brian Butler for leaving without telling the other patrons to leave. With the setup and situations of The Station, it wasn't possible for everyone to get out. If Brian Butler would have yelled 'fire! Run!', a pile-up would have occurred sooner and more would have died. But anyway, I'm going to try to not let the detective in me come out and get too wrapped-up in The Station and this thread.

Great first post! You say you're a detective, huh? Have you been going through the legal documents and witness statements our group has obtained? It's a great way to pore through the details. For you and others new like yourself, see my post on page 1 of the current thread for the link.

I read a book about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire recently too. It's similar in how fast that fire went up, but was in a multistory building. Also interestingly, back then fire engines were horse drawn. I was recently in a tour of a local fire house with my daughter's girl scout troop. (I resisted the urge to talk about these infamous fires with the firemen.) They told us an interesting fact.. dalmatian dogs are synonymous with fire fighting because they had a real purpose back in the early days.. they helped to calm the horses! They also have relatively poor hearing and aren't startled by fire bells. I never thought about it before, but now I know.

Dionyzus - funny that you should say that. I have learned a lot about dalmations and their relationship with the firehouse. It has been said that dalmations once ran through the streets to get people out of the way so that the horse drawn fire engine could come through. Also, the horses followed the dalmations and could distinguish them from other dogs because of their spots. Not to get off topic, but just some interesting trivia. I am glad to see this board pick up again. So many other events happening in the world, but it is always good to remember our friends at The Station and hope that something like that never happens again.

The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

Dionyzus - funny that you should say that. I have learned a lot about dalmations and their relationship with the firehouse. It has been said that dalmations once ran through the streets to get people out of the way so that the horse drawn fire engine could come through. Also, the horses followed the dalmations and could distinguish them from other dogs because of their spots. Not to get off topic, but just some interesting trivia. I am glad to see this board pick up again. So many other events happening in the world, but it is always good to remember our friends at The Station and hope that something like that never happens again.

Im sorry I'm not able to quote where I saw this but it is somewhere in the volume of documents that there was a phone call from a woman in the restroom reporting the fire and that she needed help.the phone call which I assume was from either Bridget Sanetti or her friend Katie Odonnell was recorded at 11:17. Wouldn't that have been well after survivability from the fire was past?

I saw a model showing how the temperature (theoretically) rose throughout the building during the fire. I remember the bathrooms being one of the last parts of the building to "get hot" and I assume burn and become filled with smoke and become deplete of oxygen. I don't remember the timeframe either. Maybe they had just enough time to make that 911 call from inside the bathroom while the building was being consumed around them? Was that Bridget and Katie in the pre-fire footage where they're standing at the bar, one of then facing sideways to the camera and the other looking at the camera?

I saw a model showing how the temperature (theoretically) rose throughout the building during the fire. I remember the bathrooms being one of the last parts of the building to "get hot" and I assume burn and become filled with smoke and become deplete of oxygen. I don't remember the timeframe either. Maybe they had just enough time to make that 911 call from inside the bathroom while the building was being consumed around them? Was that Bridget and Katie in the pre-fire footage where they're standing at the bar, one of then facing sideways to the camera and the other looking at the camera?

I have never seen that model. it sounds interesting - do you know where you saw it? Yes, I believe that is Bridget and Katie at the bar. It is so difficult to see those people pre-fire and know their identity. Painful.
Another thing I have wondered about is when you read the coroner's testimony and she tells what each victim dies from. do you think she lists them in alphabetical order? If so, it should be easy for us to ID them.

Bridget and Katie are seen at the bar in the pre-fire video. Bridget has long, straight blonde hair and is wearing a light turquoise shirt. Katie had curly, brown hair. I'm not sure what she was wearing. Bridget was with her aunt and uncle. Her aunt had to leave before the fire and her uncle escape and saved many people. I'm not sure who made the telephone call from the ladies' room, but there is one recorded on the dispatch.

The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

Dionyzus- thank you for your response and input. I agree, I'd love to identify most, if not all of the people in the pre-show video. Perhaps those 3 at the bar actually survived the fire? The dark haired woman does look a LOT like Kristen McQuarrie to me, though.

Regarding the phone calls made from the restroom: I also heard that it was either Bridget or Katie, or both who made the call. I haven't found anything in the Drive files referencing that though, and I don't remember where I had read that. Maybe from the book?

There have been several attempts to identify everyone. It always ends badly so I stay away from even trying. If you check out Thread 1 there is a large amount of identifying on it. There were quite a few people who put a large amount of effort into it. It starts about halfway through the thread.

It looks like the entire lawsuit, and it's 250 pages. I haven't read through it yet, but I don't remember seeing it before.

Great find Amander! It is indeed the lawsuit document from 2006. Apparently this is what would have formed the basis for the trial had it gone to court. There are interesting allegations in it concerning those who were clearly negligent and those who most now feel are marginal like Brian Butler. Due to its significance, I have uploaded this document to the Google Drive under the Contents Not From Original Hard Drive folder.

Originally Posted by Noelle1966

There is a dispatcher during the fire mentioning that a 911 call came from the ladies' restroom. Not sure if the call is public, but it is possible.

On the Google Drive, there is a Dispatch Calls folder which contains audio files of the calls and a summary document called Station Calls.pdf. This lists all the calls made that night/early morning. The list includes several 911 calls, but those audio files are missing from the folder. I have to assume they were removed intentionally, and I'm sure Bridget Sanetti's is one of them. There are a few 911 calls that were not removed, but they just contain blank audio and were probably hangup calls.

On an unrelated note, I happened to find an interesting tidbit in the Phase 4 - Discovery Material folder, a followup witness statement by survivor Brian O'Donnell. He said he was trying to escape, and was the one who kicked out a window in the atrium that faced the front steps. He said he kicked it about a dozen times and was about to give up but tried one more time and it broke. It was apparently the only window in the atrium area that was broken by someone from the inside. The rest were broken from the outside. I had wondered about this exit, since you can see someone exiting it in the Butler video right before he reaches the front steps. I wonder how many people made it out that window. I'm guessing not many since the temperatures rose so quickly in the atrium.

Great find Amander! It is indeed the lawsuit document from 2006. Apparently this is what would have formed the basis for the trial had it gone to court. There are interesting allegations in it concerning those who were clearly negligent and those who most now feel are marginal like Brian Butler. Due to its significance, I have uploaded this document to the Google Drive under the Contents Not From Original Hard Drive folder.

On the Google Drive, there is a Dispatch Calls folder which contains audio files of the calls and a summary document called Station Calls.pdf. This lists all the calls made that night/early morning. The list includes several 911 calls, but those audio files are missing from the folder. I have to assume they were removed intentionally, and I'm sure Bridget Sanetti's is one of them. There are a few 911 calls that were not removed, but they just contain blank audio and were probably hangup calls.

For those new to the thread, these files came from the Rhode Island Attorney General's (RIAG) office. When the legal case was active several years ago, these files from the investigation were posted on the RIAG website. Eventually they were taken down. Their website stated the files were still available if you sent them an external hard drive with 165 GB of available space. Some forum members tried to contact their office and didn't seem to be getting anywhere. In March of this year I lucked out and must have contacted the right people, and I successfully sent and received a hard drive with the files. I posted the most important files to two Google Drive accounts holding 15 GB each. The remaining 130 GB or so are mainly NIST fire test videos and video files of bands playing at the Station in the past, nothing critical to the case directly.

I read it and thought AWESOME. Then I saw that they have only 200,000 in the bank. This memorial is never going to get finished unless somebody coughs up some change. Private donations from people like us are not helping.

I read it and thought AWESOME. Then I saw that they have only 200,000 in the bank. This memorial is never going to get finished unless somebody coughs up some change. Private donations from people like us are not helping.

Right? On my local news it stated they need to raise more than $1M bucks.

Anyone else kinda wish Brian Butler had stayed on the front of the building the entire time instead of walking to the back (or side or whatever)? I guess part of me, a bit morbidly, I might add, wants to see how the chaos unfolds so quickly. When Butler walks to the back (or side) of the nightclub, there's panic - but the fire has yet to reach the doorway. When he returns, it's fully engulfed. I'm interested in ... seeing how that transpired. I feel bad wishing to see something like that, but, yeah...

SLC, don't feel bad. If you do, then I do, too. I don't like to see the pain on these people's faces, but human curiousity makes me want to know what happened right after he left the building. I am not sure what drove him to go to the back of the building - maybe because that is where the fire started?

The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

I would also have wanted him to stay with the front door. I would have liked to see more people making it out. I always imagine that once Butler went to the back, they had kind of a breakthrough and were able to pull out a whole bunch of people at once.

On the other hand I'd also like to know how fast the fire engulfed the front door. It must have been pretty fast actually

After reading all of the witness statements in the "3rd Phase" documents, I compiled a list of the surviving heroes who helped people get out of the building and a list of those people in the front door pileup who survived. Undoubtedly there were many heroes like Tracy King who died saving others, but I chose to focus on those heroes who gave an account of their actions. The lists may not be complete but here is what I came up with.

Georgette Giroux-Brown said that Greg Dufour smashed a window near the pool tables with a plant, and she exited through the window. Greg Dufour's statement corroborates this. Dufour was one of three people, along with Brian O'Donnell and Ron Barak, to break atrium windows from the inside, while at least one window was broken from the outside by policeman Mark Knott.

Adrian Krasinskas, who was in the pileup, was pulled out and collapsed in the parking lot. He called for a passing ambulance to help him. Perhaps he was the man in Butler's video screaming "Turn the hose on!"

Rick Sanetti said he was pulling people out the windows by the main bar when a woman named Cathy came from the front door, completely on fire; he took off his sweatshirt and threw it over her head to put her hair out. Maybe Cathy is one of those running away from the front doorway as it burns in Butler's video.

Adam Florio said when the bar area started filling up with smoke he thought the lights had gone out but then he looked at the floor and saw the lights were still on; when he got to a window the lamp outside the window was still on.

Richard Gilbert observed Jack Russell trying to help a man who was badly cut. Also Charlene Prudhomme said: "We saw Jack Russell in the parking lot helping, carrying people to the ambulances. Someone had [a victim] under the arms and Jack Russell had him by the legs, running." (I do not mean to defend Russell, since he was directly responsible for this tragedy, but apparently he did try to help in the aftermath.)

A man named Randy Bass used Scott Ward's pyrotechnics license to purchase gerbs for Dan Biechele.