This may seem like a silly question, but why do know US airlines have cupholders on the tray tables or seat backs in Y? It seems that most foreign airlines have these installed in their seats in Y. I would have thought that the new AA 773 would have had this feature.

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):This may seem like a silly question, but why do know US airlines have cupholders on the tray tables or seat backs in Y? It seems that most foreign airlines have these installed in their seats in Y

Do you mean the indent on the tray? Or an actual cup holder? I've never seen an actual cup holder on a flight in my life. The closest I have seen is the water bottle holder on Aer Lingus Business Class seats...

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter): It seems that most foreign airlines have these installed in their seats in Y.

What airlines are you referring to? I've only ever seen them on AF, and they're fragile and easily broken. Just another unnecessary maintenance burden in my opinion. These days the fewer things that require maintenance the better.

Interesting, I fly all the time and have never seen them. Or maybe once... and that's flying QF, AA, EI, FR, BA, U2, AY, CX, RJ, UA, AS, RE, SN... so saying that "I'd say most airlines have them" is pretty wrong.

They may be an extra item, but they do provide a lot of comfort for their price, which must be pennies. You always have somewhere to put your drink, you also have a place for your empty cup and that empty cup also serves as a receptacle for your gum papers, the plastic wrappers from the meal tray and all those used napkins - fewer of which will have to be removed from seat pockets after the flight.

The ones on LH seem to be as easily replaced as they are broken and removed. Put a dozen of these light, cheap and safety-irrelevant parts somewhere in the galley, show the F/As how to replace them and bang, that's maintenance taken care of - or does even that sort of thing have to be "installed" by a certified mechanic?

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):Interesting, I fly all the time and have never seen them. Or maybe once... and that's flying QF, AA, EI, FR, BA, U2, AY, CX, RJ, UA, AS, RE, SN... so saying that "I'd say most airlines have them" is pretty wrong.

I also think it depends on whether your flying on a long-haul aircraft, or a short-haul aircraft.

Quoting aloges (Reply 10):They may be an extra item, but they do provide a lot of comfort for their price, which must be pennies. You always have somewhere to put your drink, you also have a place for your empty cup and that empty cup also serves as a receptacle for your gum papers, the plastic wrappers from the meal tray and all those used napkins - fewer of which will have to be removed from seat pockets after the flight.

Very accurate statement! Also, LAN's decision to instal two individual cup holders in every seat in Y on its new widebody a/c ensures that one cup holder is always accessible during the flight.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
what's the point of the cupholder when you have a meal tray that works just as well?

So when you have just a drink, you don't have to put the tray down. I hate having my table down, but I am often forced to when I have a drink.

I've always been reluctant to use the AF cupholders as they look so flimsy. Also, if the passenger in front reclines the seatback suddenly it could slosh the contents of the drink onto your lap. That's much less likely if your drink is on the meal tray as it doesn't move when the seatback is reclined, unlike the cupholder which is attached to the seatback.

I think that if you were to look at the frequencies per day per airplane and the Number of airplanes it most USA based fleets you might see that the cup holder won't pass Muster in the additional expense of installing and maintaining them.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 21):I think that if you were to look at the frequencies per day per airplane and the Number of airplanes it most USA based fleets you might see that the cup holder won't pass Muster in the additional expense of installing and maintaining them.

Of course there's an additional cost! Many non-US carriershave the cupholders (as shown in the pics above) so it's clear they're willing to invest a small amount in their Y product to improve customer satisfaction. When it comes to US airlines decision not to invest, it's probably purely based on some bean counter's recommendation.

All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.

It reminds me of Bill Bryson's book about returning to the USA after years in England. He was particularly tickled by the guy who took his brand-new desktop computer back to the store "because the cup-holder had broken". It was, of course, the CD-ROM drive.

Why would any airline choose to install an appendage which was so easy to break? I watched Australian state TV's expose last week of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter debacle, and the problem was the same: when a product has been designed with too many parts which can malfunction the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

Quoting max999 (Reply 23):Of course there's an additional cost! Many non-US carriershave the cupholders (as shown in the pics above) so it's clear they're willing to invest a small amount in their Y product to improve customer satisfaction. When it comes to US airlines decision not to invest, it's probably purely based on some bean counter's recommendation.

This is because customers in the United States don't care about satisfaction, they care about price. Would you pay more than you had to just to fly an airline with cup holders?

ACA had cup holders on their J41 aircraft. The biggest problem with them was that when opened, they were too close to the seat back and the angle of the seat back meant the cups had to be angled to get them into the cup holder. You had to drink about a third of your beverage before you could put the cup into the cup holder without spilling it. Some of the later J41's delivered from BAE had modified cup holders which solved the problem.

Quoting koruman (Reply 24):It reminds me of Bill Bryson's book about returning to the USA after years in England. He was particularly tickled by the guy who took his brand-new desktop computer back to the store "because the cup-holder had broken". It was, of course, the CD-ROM drive.

Was it A Walk in the Woods, by any chance? Great book.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 25):This is because customers in the United States don't care about satisfaction, they care about price. Would you pay more than you had to just to fly an airline with cup holders?

Until a US airline can prove beyond reasonable doubt that passengers will view the addition of a cupholder as a differentiating trait between their product and that of a competitor, I doubt you will see any installed for cost reasons.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):So when you have just a drink, you don't have to put the tray down. I hate having my table down, but I am often forced to when I have a drink.

Yes! That would be the main thing for me, too. In coach class, there is nowhere to set your drink, unless the tray table is down, which can be cumbersome. J or F seats, of course, have integral cup holders or at least a 4x5" flat spot on the armrest and an extendable mini-tray.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):I've always been reluctant to use the AF cupholders as they look so flimsy.

I'd definitely want something sturdy for that. And how is the stability of the cupholder when the person in the seat it's attached to moves around or reclines? Does it stay horizontal? Does it have slosh-dampeners?

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 21):I think that if you were to look at the frequencies per day per airplane and the Number of airplanes it most USA based fleets you might see that the cup holder won't pass Muster in the additional expense of installing and maintaining them.

Yessir. The only way I can picture an effective Y-class cupholder is to somehow make it part of the armrest instead of the seatback. But is there enough room?

Quoting questions (Reply 12):Slightly off topic, but in line with seat details... why do US airlines, exception may be UA long haul, not use the (usually white) headrest protectors (attached to top of seat with velcro)?

I don't know. It seems a smart thing to protect the headrests from passengers' hair products and natural oils, and it is preferable to rest your head on something you know is clean, especially on a long flight when likely you'll be sleeping!

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 30):Yessir. The only way I can picture an effective Y-class cupholder is to somehow make it part of the armrest instead of the seatback.

Agreed. At the end of the armrest more or less where the individual ash trays used to be (and where some seats now have plates blocking off the former ash tray holes) is the only truly practical location for a cupholder.

For a permanent, fixed-position cupholder which would be the most durable design, no, there isn't. With the narrow armrests that are currently the norm with Y-class seats, a cupholder that folded out of the end of the armrest and rotated 90 degrees similar to how the tray tables on exit row seats operate would be necessary, and that would be dramatically more expensive than a fixed-position cupholder.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):Interesting, I fly all the time and have never seen them. Or maybe once... and that's flying QF, AA, EI, FR, BA, U2, AY, CX, RJ, UA, AS, RE, SN... so saying that "I'd say most airlines have them" is pretty wrong.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 21):I think that if you were to look at the frequencies per day per airplane and the Number of airplanes it most USA based fleets you might see that the cup holder won't pass Muster in the additional expense of installing and maintaining them.

Pretty sure US based airplanes average less number of flights than European due to longer average flight length.

Also doubt there is much difference in how often Americans brake them compared to Europeans so it becomes a question about how many times and then the European is in more danger.

Love these!! I guess if you have never had a flight with them it may be hard to grasp why they are great. A lot if times you only have a drink in front of you. You can get up freely but you also are more comfortable seated without the tray in front of you. Nowadays especially when food is a thing if the past. On a lot of European routes you still get a sandwich, which u don't need the tray down either for. It's purely cost savings, the reason US carriers don't have them.

Yeah, they are pretty damned flimsy...I have probably repaired at least half a dozen cup holders that were busted by my seat mates (including my wife, who uses the lavatory every damned hour...I now let her sit on the aisle). However, they are flimsy plastic, and they snap back into place pretty easily.

I think the holders are very convenient...they hold the cup quite securely, even in turbulent air. Although, the F/As never pick up my empty cup! And, given that I am usually heavily drugged/unconscious on any flight over 8 hours, that gets to be a pain in the ass.

As for US airlines on long haul, I don't know...I almost never fly them...I always go for Asian carriers, either MU, CA, KE, or SQ. However, I only remember the cup holders on MU.

SK used to have cupholders as well on the MD80s. Don't know what the case is on the Airbii or Boeings, but they're not to be found on the CRJs. Always found them very handy to have around, but not of any significant importance.

Harry Stonecipher: Bought McD for Boeing, using Boeing's money and then turned it from an engineering to an accounting firm because he was a bean-counter and bean-counting is all he knew. Wasn't really very good at that either, when push came to shove.

Howard Hughes: Not a bean-counter
Sir Richard Branson. Not a bean-counter
Freddy Laker: Not a bean-counter
Tony Fernandes: Not a bean-counter
Dude what started Southwest: Not a bean-counter.

That's why. Though not all bean-counters are bad; far from it actually. I know a couple of really good eggs, as I'm sure many other with a career in business does. It's just that they must never be allowed final say, or to run the show.

[Edited 2013-02-25 04:02:22]

From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 25):This is because customers in the United States don't care about satisfaction, they care about price. Would you pay more than you had to just to fly an airline with cup holders?

Cupholders are just a minor item when it comes to the entire flying experience. If the seat has them, it's a sign that the airline invests in its product. So for me personally, yes I would pay more if I knew the airline had overall better customer service. While Americas all think differently, there are many people who pay attention to these things like I do.

All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 25):This is because customers in the United States don't care about satisfaction, they care about price. Would you pay more than you had to just to fly an airline with cup holders?

Customers everywhere care about price, it's not just the US. They all *say* they care about service, but they aren't willing to pay a dime extra for it the world 'round.

Quoting bohica (Reply 26):ACA had cup holders on their J41 aircraft. The biggest problem with them was that when opened, they were too close to the seat back and the angle of the seat back meant the cups had to be angled to get them into the cup holder. You had to drink about a third of your beverage before you could put the cup into the cup holder without spilling it. Some of the later J41's delivered from BAE had modified cup holders which solved the problem.

Yes, I remember that.

And I remember one particularly turbulent IAD-EWR flight where everyone in the last couple rows wore their beverages off the plane.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4): What airlines are you referring to? I've only ever seen them on AF, and they're fragile and easily broken. Just another unnecessary maintenance burden in my opinion. These days the fewer things that require maintenance the better.

At least those cup holders come in handy, unlike the electronically tinted windows on the 787, which allow the crew to override pax and darken them however, whenever they wish, as the planes age those window are likely to malfunction just like the IFE screens. Imagine booking a window seat only to find your window stuck on the darkest setting!

I hope the electronic tinting won't be a standard feature on future airliners, including the A350.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):I've always been reluctant to use the AF cupholders as they look so flimsy. Also, if the passenger in front reclines the seatback suddenly it could slosh the contents of the drink onto your lap. That's much less likely if your drink is on the meal tray as it doesn't move when the seatback is reclined, unlike the cupholder which is attached to the seatback.

You seem to pay a lot of attention to AF cup holders, which are greatly convenient to me, but the bottom line is that you do not have to use them. It's not a seat belt.

Quoting LH422 (Reply 34):My main reason for liking the cupholder is to be able to get out of the seat before my drink has been emptied or collected.

I can see why people are worried these things might break all the time but I can't recall ever seeing a broken cup holder on a flight.

Indeed, but I do recall multiple broken IFE (broken = crashing and having issues for much of the flight),

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 45):At least those cup holders come in handy, unlike the electronically tinted windows on the 787, which allow the crew to override pax and darken them however, whenever they wish, as the planes age those window are likely to malfunction just like the IFE screens.

At least they won't prevent the "dream"liner to fly, unlike the batteries. But yeah, I do agree with you. Cup holders are more relevant to comfort in my opinion than some fancy electronic control of window transparency etc etc...

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):This may seem like a silly question, but why do know US airlines have cupholders on the tray tables or seat backs in Y?

You will be happy to find out that there is one US Airline with cup holders in the seat backs, and that is Hawaiian Airlines.
The cup holders are not standard across our fleet, but they can be found on 4 of our 767's that came to us from LTU Airlines.
And just a side note, I don't recall ever seeing a broken one.