New Bill Wants to End Permanent Alimony In Florida

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — A House panel has given the green light to a bill that would overhaul what critics say is the state’s antiquated alimony law.

Rep. Ritch Workman’s bill (HB 549) Thursday cleared the House Judiciary Committee by a 17-1 vote. The Melbourne Republican said the measure would ensure alimony is fair to both ex-spouses.

It would end “permanent” lifetime alimony in favor of “long-term” support that has a foreseeable end. A man with the Florida Alimony Reform group told the committee he was still paying alimony to his wife decades after their divorce because she refuses to work.

But a representative of the Florida Bar’s family law section said the bill had flaws and asked Workman to continue working with him on a rewrite. A similar bill is in the Senate.

I went to court under the so called new co-habitation law and the Judge ruled in my favor on co-habitation & no change in alimony base her need and ability to pay using my net pay which includes taxable benefits that are not disposablworker4alivinge funds. My needs were never address & her boyfriend does not work. My attorney told me that alimony is based on her need and ability to pay using my net pay which includes taxable benefits, nothing more.

I read the article Mr. Finley wrote and I thank him for taking the time to make Florida aware of this abuse. I thank the paper!!! .The Family Bar has a chance to make the Laws right and equal to both men and women. Alimony goes all the way back to England when women had no rights to signing contracts or owning property. Women had no voice. The court did not recognize divorce. The man had to continue to pay the spouse so she would not become indigent. We are living in the 21st century. Women go to college and have great jobs. They are lawyers, Judges, Doctors, Senators, etc.

After my divorce I started a business 31 years ago with no formal education and less than $4,000.00. Today it is a successful business by lots of hard work and dedication. I received no alimony or child support. At the time I had two little boys. Hard work is the answer. The Bar needs to reconsider. Permanent alimony is out of date!!!. The alimony payers must be able to retire. Under current law that is almost if not completely impossible. PUT LIMITS ON THE LENGTH OF TIME ALIMONY IS PAID.

There will no doubt be exceptions, it will just cost more to go to court. I agreed to move every few years with my husband, I gave up my career for his. We decided since GMAC moved him every few years I would stay home with the children. While he was traveling and I was home with our 3 kids, he decided to take up with his secretary. Now over 30 years later I have a job making nine dollars an hour, he makes close to 200,000.00. I will lose health insurance after 30 years. I have no benefits, have tried to find another job, seems no one wants to hire a 52 year old woman that has no degree or work experience. I am not lazy I would love to have a career, Anyone want to hire me, I am dependable, responsible and very personable. It is not my fault my husband is bored and prone to depression. I would have been with him to death do us part. I pray that the representatives who think this is the best bill to spend time on not be elected. With everything else going on in 2012, what a waste of time. They don’t deserve re election. God help us all!

CJ stop feeling sorry to yourself. Fifty two is not old today. Take responsibility. Get a two year degree. Become an ultrasound tech or something that brings in decent money. The school offers job placement. If you ex husband is prone to depression, be glad you are away from him and start a new life. Meet a good man who is not depressed. God helps those who help themselves.

Debbie,
I believe that Elaine Schwartzl’s name and opinion should be posted all over the internet. How is it fair for you or I to support a woman we probably have never had a conversation with much less ever committed to. I believe that they are not for rights of woman when they are trying to give away my income or assets.
I divorced my husband of 12 years in 1991. We had 3 three children. There is a trail of hospital visits and battered home shelter stays over the 12 years. If at the time there we more defined alimony laws in Georgia with limits and duration, I would not have been afraid to ask for alimony. Real victims of domestic violence are afraid to threaten even more of their incomes. I believe there should be guidelines. At that time I was 28 years old and did not have a high school diploma. So for the last 22 years I have raised 3 children, I have had to remake myself 3 times as far as careers goes. I have worked very hard on my life. I believe I should have gotten more in the divorce but I was unwilling to take the risk of more violence. Child support was a given so I did not have to fight for it. Alimony for 3 – 5 years would have been fair but at the time in Georgia there were no real guidelines so that was a not an option. Why, for God’s sake should I have to give anyone what I have worked so hard for is beyond me.

I don’t feel sorry for myself, I just know what is fair! Debbie you are obviously very bitter, every situation is different. If I was the cheating spouse and hadn’t put so much into this life with my husband and children, I would gladly walk away with nothing and not look back. I know in my heart I will be fine, my husband is a jerk and will pay one way or another. You have no right to judge me, you don’t know me.

At age 52, you can remake yourself. I hope that you have taught your children not to give away their lives for anyone. I have taught my 3 children to be sure at all times that if need be they could live independently. Thank God they have found good partners. If you believe all the good things you have stated about yourself, have the confidence to remake yourself. Stop worrying about 30 years from now. As you most assuredly have learned by now, things can change in an instant. Thank you for being brave enough to post your story. It has reminded me of where I should be. My husband and I are trying to be committed to focus on what we can change. It has been overwhelming over the past few years.

These laws are out of date and need reform. There needs to be guidelines on duration and amount of alimony. If children can have guidelines on support than why can’t adults?
My 37 year old x wife at the time of divorce is receiving 6 years of bridge the gap alimony. She has a college degree from FSU. 3 years later she is not working and has moved a man and his kids in with her 2 years ago. She received sole use and possession of marital home until remarriage. So, they live together instead. Playing a game of cat and mouse but reaping the benefits of an x husband who pays for it all. She even played the system and would not watch our children last summer while I worked but watched her boyfriends child for him. Co habitation laws need to be strict.

Judges should be required to follow all statues and have factual proof listed on the final. Alimony should not be given to a spouse guilty of adultery. Alimony should not be given to a spouse for being at fault for the break up of the marriage.

Family finances caught in cross hairs of alimony bill
The letter below was published in The Orlando Sentinel on Thursday February 16, 2012 and is followed by the article to which it responded.
Gordon E. Finley, Ph.D.
Family finances caught in cross hairs of alimony billhttp://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/os-ed-letters-cop-crashes-021612-20120215,0,4690843.story
Waking up over coffee after a long trip to Tallahassee to attend the Florida Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on SB 748 (alimony), I came to a startling realization.
The finances of Florida families are in the cross hairs. Florida’s citizens must make a choice and take action. Either families let the family law section of The Florida Bar dictate how every penny of divorced families’ money is spent, or citizens band together to break the financial and political power of The Florida Bar.
What is critical to understand is that The Florida Bar is motivated only by greed — not the best interests of the child or even those of the divorcing parents. In crafting and opposing legislation, the bar’s goal is simple: Write family law to maximize judicial discretion in order to maximize litigation. The bar wants to maximize litigation so that divorce lawyers can charge $400 to $900 an hour to pick the last remaining dollars off the bones of the formerly intact family.
I urge Florida citizens to wake up to this hypocrisy and contact their legislators to oppose legislative initiatives taken by the family law section of The Florida Bar.
No matter what the bar says, the lawyers are motivated only their own financial best interests — not those of Florida’s families.

The reform bills are anti-family, anti-marriage and anti-gender. The proponents are being less than truthful to their followers about the effects of the bill’s passing and its reach. The lawyers will continue to reap rich rewards while more will women will go bankrupt and one the dole. Be wary of these bills. very very wary. they are evil.

Here we go again with “Beth Casey”. People just need to get a job and be responsible for themselves. Permanent alimony is barbaric. Beth Casey’s alter ego is either a divorce attorney or a permanent alimony recipient.

I’m one of the cast-aside older women who receives governent assistance, while he and his young new wife live in a gated golf course community. Where do you think the government assistance comes from? You, that;’s who, You are in effect paying for my ex’s responsibility, through higher taxes..

And who do you think pay for these benefits that the alimony recipients get from the government? You do. What happens to the elderly women when a man decides to boost his morale and pretend he’s a young man again cast aside the wife he’s been married to for many years in exchange for a girl young enough to be his daughter or grand daughter even.

Why do you think so many elderly women commit suicide after a divorce? It’s because she doesn’t have money to pay rent, utilities, medical, or even food. Most older women did not work outside the home as it wasn’t showing respect for their husband as he was afraid his associates would think he couldn’t provide for a family. So we women have no job skills, no work experience and even if we can find a job, it’s at the most minimum wage and part-time as employers don’t want to pay benefits on us. Now we are elderly, most in poor health, and no husband to spend the twilight years of our lives with, the one we planned with all those years for a retirement together. Now, the sweet young thing is reaping the benefits of the time, effort, and sacrifice that the now cast aside ex-wife did all those years.

@Pat, assuming you’re not “Beth Casey” or maybe Elisha Roy and you really are a castaway older woman, with the new bill, you should have received half the marital assets. If you were poor before your divorced, you will be poor afterwards. If you were wealthy before the divorce, you will be wealthy afterwards. You will receive “long term” alimony. So what iis your issue with the Bills? The only people it will affect is that younger, able bodied women will not get permanent alimony and their ex-husbands won’t be indentured servants for life. What’s wrong with that? Many propoents of the bills are educated, knowledgeable people who know how to read a bill. Many of us are professors, attorneys, and smart people in general. We are not being sold ice in January. The only people trying to sell us ice in January are the “Beth Caseys” of the world or the FL Bar who fear losing some income. Their anti bill stance is not based on logic but on greed. Florida has one of the strictest, harshest most unbalanced set of laws. How do other states manage? Don’t worry attorneys against the bill. you’ll find another ambulance to chase.

I wsa divorced 10 yrs ago. There was no splitting down the middle of anything. He got the home, the furniture, etc. as there was no way I could live there after he brought his little ho-ho home with him to sleep in our bed, use my stuff, etc. while I was at our daughter’s home recuperating from major surgery. The agreement was he got one car, I got the other, plus the payments on it. And I got life time spousal support, irrevocable. It was explained to us both that he could not go back to court and ask to have the support cut or discontinued and I could not go back to court and ask for more, even if he won the lottery and was a multi-millionaire.

If you really think ex-wives are better off after a divorce you live in a dream world. Come and talk to a few of us and we can surely tell you different. I wasn’t poor before the divorce, but I was and am after the divorce. He wasn’t poor before the divorce nor after the divorce.

I’ve found out the laws on the books aren’t worth the paper they are written on as all he had to do was move out of the state. The circuit courts cannot enforce the rules, as the other states will not reciprocate. Even though an income deduction order was issued, the company he works for doesn’t deduct the amount.

@Pat Your decision not to take the house was an emotional one, not a financial one. Even if you didn’t want to live there, you could have sold it. So your emotions which were hurt and understandably so, caused you to make a decision that hurt you financially, so you can’t blame that on “the system”. Your story is the exact reason why we need new alimony laws. The judges have way too much discretion and can be arbitrary. You should have received half of the assets.

Once again, the new bills allow a person such as yourself to receive long term alimony. The new bills are not anti alimony and do not deny disabled women alimony fo life .

I am a divorced woman too, and my finances are not nearly as good as when I was married. No one’s life is better financially aftrer a divorce. I’m not complaining because I welcome the opportunity to start a new life. The problem is I can’t marry a man who pays lifetime alimony because my income can be a factor in his alimony. I work too hard for my money to help support the ex wife.

What I don’t understand is that if you have lifetime alimony, why are you poor and your ex-husband not poor? I fail to understand this. Most of the time, it’s the other way around- the recipient has a better standard of living. Again, another reason why the laws need to be changed.

Reason why I’m poor is for the past 4 yrs he’s either not paid the alimony or just a paltry amount. He’s in arrears of over $35,000. Because states do not recripocate and he lives outside the state of FL there’s not too much the circuit courts can do, He has several writs of bodily attachments on him but unless he comes back to FL they won’t be served.

Too many divorce attorneys are evil. They don’t want the laws changed because it is litigating alimony is their cash cow. If child support can have guidelines, so can alimony. Divorces will be less acrimonious. Don’t think the citizens see the family section of the FL Bar for what it is- a special interest group looking to protect their special interests. Women won’t go bankrupt under the new law. They will have enough time with alimony to get job training or a degree assuming they don’t already have one.

Thank you for covering this important topic of Alimony Reform in Florida. Thank you Rep Ritch Workman for your hard work and courage! We in Florida are in desperate need of updated Alimony Laws that are fair, have guidelines for amount and duration and that end Permanent Lifetime Alimony! Give families back their dignity! Short term alimony to assist the lower earning spouse is fair but a lifetime with no ability to retire or help your adult children or elderly parents is insanity! My husband has been paying Permanent Lifetime Alimony for over 20 years to an ex spouse who is college educated, healthy and employed full time. Through the years she has cohabitated several times and to date has never moved on. She was awarded lifetime permanent alimony at the age of 37! These laws must change and move out of the 1950’s and into the 21st century. There should not be financial ties that go on for 40 or 50 years, its absurd! Lets use some common sense and make fair guidelines. Child Support has guidelines and ends at the legal age of 18. This is welfare and must end!

I was part of alimony reform in Massachussets because my late husband was forced to pay alimony to an ex wife who had cheated on him and left him. People would be very surprised how many women are having affairs and ending their marriages, yet have the nerve to ask for lifetime alimony. Then they live with the paramour and get supported by the alimony and the boyfriend. The laws need to change because lifetime alimony is nothing more than involuntary servitude and permanent alimony. If MA did it, so can FL.

Unless a person is permanently disabled, these proposed changes are necessary and welcome. The two stories in the news where a man with throat cancer or an alzheimer’s patient are paying alimony is insanity. How does the law allow this? Why aren’t the judges who made these rulings be held accouintable? Why aren’t their names published for all to see what kind of rulings they make? Regardless, alimony needs to have stricter guidelines just like child support so there is less litigation and all parties can successfully move on with their lives after a marriage fails.

Debbie, Please do not make an exception for the “permanently disabled”, as I married a “permanently disabled” for 15 years, and got hit with Permanent Alimony. I did not cause her disability. Insurance and the government may be able to help the disabled. If there is one thing I have learned, I can not. Lifetime Alimony disabled me. Alimony Must End. No one deserves the torture of involuntary servitude.

I pay lifetime alimony to a healthy, educated person who refuses to work as not to lose her alimony. There needs to be limits so I can move on with my life and also look forward to retirement one day. I am very glad the proposed changes are happening in an election year because the lawmakers need to be accountable to the citizens of Florida and not the Florida Bar.

Thanks for printing this article. I am a divorced father of two who have custody of our children. I also got handed down the alimony card. My ex cheated and put our two children and myself in danger with several men she has been seeing. Even though this was proven to the courts, they do not care! I had to take the children out of the marital home per my attorney’s advice. We left with only the clothes on our backs, went to stay with relatives and ended up living there for a year and a half. On the next court date after that, the judge ordered me to still pay all the household bills I always had, even though the ex had a job, I was responsible for paying the mortgage, all car payments, insurance, gas and food for her. I had the children with me and had to also take care of them. The court didn’t care if the children were uprooted out of their own home. The ex got awarded back alimony, but I was denied back child support for the year and a half we had been out of the house. The court also made sure I paid for counseling for the children and the ex, in hopes they could mend their relationship with their mother. I am stuck with lifetime alimony and the ex has paid nothing toward the children for the last 5 years. My oldest child is now 19, according to the court as soon as my daughter turned 18 I am no longer responsible for her, So I should kick her out of the house and not worry if she can make it on her own? But the court orders that I have to support someone for life that I wasn’t even married to for 20 years? And not only support her but her live in boyfriends? And keep her in a life style that we never even had when we were married? The ex can lie, steal, manipulate, perjure and not comply with court orders and its okay with them. Yet under advisement by my attorney I am to be the nice guy and do exactly as the court orders, and play by the rules. It doesn’t work! There is no reward for following the rules. Now I am barely making ends meet and still have children to take care of, when will it ever be for the children? I not only have lifetime alimony, the ex also got half of my 401K, half of my retirement, and now that I have entered the DROP she gets a bonus of $96,000. If I hadn’t been persuaded to go into the DROP program I wouldn’t have done it. As it stands now I won’t ever be able to retire. I have been a civil servant for the state of Florida for over 30 years; I implore the state lawmakers and legislators to make the change set us free!

I am a stay at home wife, a mother, and have been for the last 15 years. I have been very lucky to be able to stay at home and raise our children, an agreement between my husband and I. Staying home with your children is a LUXURY not a given right. I disagree with lifetime alimony for women who say that they were forced to stay home while their husbands worked. I think it’s wrongly unjust to punish these men and women who have had to work, and now that they are divorced they are forced to pay lifetime alimony. Isn’t it bad enough they had to lose out on their children’s lives and other important events? How come they don’t get compensation for their loss? But yet you have to keep them connected for life? These laws need to be changed! Stop this “alimony lottery” for the payee’s who are quite capable of working and living off the alimony system. Set these people free to live their lives and be able to move on!

To the attorneys and judges, this is a game and a way to make money. I agree with Dr. Finely but I would take it even farther. I know many divorced people and not a single one seems to have had a fair divorce. They all have spent most or all of their money on attorneys. Some one once told be that if you stand in sewage long enough, you get used to it. Why are we allowing the courts to take all of our money under the excuse that “no two divorces are the same”? Family court is built on the same foundation used in criminal and civil courts, where there is a winner and a loser. We need to change this basic structure to be a collaborative one. I am tired to going to hearings, listening to attorneys pretend they know about issues related to money, taxes, kids, etc. and just get it plain wrong. All divorces have enough common elements to standardize most of it. Issues that are disputed should be judged by subject experts, not judges who are biased and angry. It should be the courts primary duty to protect the finances of the family and the welfare of the kids. They should hold both parents responsible for the welfare of the kids. They should fine parents for putting kids in the middle and / or deliberately causing the ex hardship. I am constantly amazed that we know that most of the violence in our society is domestic violence but, in spite of that, the courts require that we provide our most private information to the person most likely to hurt us. I am also amazed with the courts unwillingness to protect the kids or the families. Have we all lost our minds? We need to fix this from the ground up. People need to know they are responsibile for their own welfare and they should never expect a free ride. People, lets get the alimony laws changed, then lets start on a family court system overhaul. Our kids need us to fix this. Beth Casey…would you want your son or daughter to be enslaved for life to someone that they never should have married? Do you want you grandkids to see either side of that issue? I tried to do the right thing for 20 years. My ex got upset and blamed me when she had to go to work. I encouraged her to go back to school and figure out what she wanted to do with her life. I worked 14 hour days, would come home and cook, clean on the weekends, all while she was trying to find herself. We had kids 15 years into it. She now refused to work, even though I have lost my job. I offered her all we have left so she can use it to support the kids. She said no. She wants to go to trial where we will lose all we have and she has nothing to gain. Her attorney is instigating her. She is running on spite. We will be completly out of money soon even though we have two kids. She would rather allow all our assets to be taken by attorneys and have nothing left for out kids. We will all be on the street in two months. She is ok with that. The judge is ok with that. Her attorney is ok with that. My attorney is pretty good and has no idea what they are all thinking. You cant get more than we have. How is it possible that we can allow this? Again…we need to fix this now!

I have been married for 30 years, raised 3 children who are now in college. I moved with my husband to support his career, I have no family here. I am not lazy or a cheater. I have no education, my husband has a masters and makes almost 200 thousand a year. I make 8 thousand, I would love to make more, but I was lucky to find a job after staying with my children and moving with my husband for 18 years. At 52 I feel it is too late to go back to school. I know in my heart of hearts I am a good person and would have done everything in my power to save our marriage. I would love to be able to make the money he does, not possible. He is selfish, are you telling me I should live in poverty after all these years. God help you all!

Carol I was married 37 years, the first few years of the marriage I worked to help put him through college, did without, sacrificed, etc. Then like most women of the time, I stayed home raised the children, took care of everything so all he had to do was go to work and come home every day. My ex is a professional makes good money. He now lives in a gated golf course community, with his “trophy” he brought home from Singapore. His double car garage is almost as big as my entire little house. I drive a 14 yr old car, he just bought another new car.

I was given life time spousal support because of my age, the length of the marriage & my medical condition. He agreed to the conditions of the divorce, he is the one who wanted the divorce, because if he didn’t get the divorce, then sweet young thing would be asked to leave the country after I think it was 6 mos. She came over on the “fiance” visa. If asked him how could he get engaged when he was a married man. Truth of the matter is he thought I would be dead by now, but God has been good to me, I’m hanging in there.

He has the means to pay, but he elects not to. For the past 4 yrs it’s been back and forth in court with the court ordering him to pay, issuing writs of bodily attachements, etc. He thumbs his nose at the court, just as so many other men in particular do. They know they aren’t going to be arrested, as long as they stay out of state. He has the money to keep paying an attorney but claims he doesn’t have the money to pay back support or current support.

Pat, this is a problem with the character of a singel Man. If there were more guidelines in Florida’s laws then you would have most certainly recieved your 50% and long term alimony. At least until you reach the age to start recieving your social security. You will never improve your situaltion until you stop focusing on what you are not and probably never will get from this loser. Put your focus on what you do have and start from there. I am very sorry for what you have suffered, but it has nothing to do with Florida laws failing you. God can never bless you with what you need when you are focused on what you have been cheated out of. Do what you have to do to get justice, but spend your energy on improving your situation.

Thank you featuring this story! Permanent Alimony in has countless victims and lifelong injuries. My husband and I cannot plan our financial futures. And at times have a f u attitude because the stress is enormous. Please continue to create awareness about this matter in FL. Read the horror stories and watch the video on floridaalimonyreform.com. It is understandable why there have been soooo many suicides by long term payors.
I have never lived in Florida and my husband only lived there long enough to be tricked into moving there for a year of his life, my income and assets are now at risk of being used for modification and we are slaves to The State of Florida!
Yes, alimony is needed for a time for some people but for LIFE with the constant threat of more court dates @ $10,000 or more per time if you get a raise or get married and the threat of JAIL if you lose your job. This is torture. It creates a life of constant fear and permanently broken relationships between children and one or both parents.
Upon the decision of divorce there should be some kind of predictability in amounts and duration of alimony. Divorce is at an all-time high. Women are more often than ever the higher wage earner. People are living longer than ever. This is a disease that will eventually touch most people’s lives in a negative way. It is spreading like a virus. Without changes soon in the laws in Florida, it will find a way into your life. It may be your daughter paying alimony, or you may end falling in love with an alimony payer. The consequences of not passing laws that will give clear guidelines and limits will be far greater than any possible damage done by receivers having to learn to be self-supporting.
It is really really hard to believe that one of the “NO” votes in the house, was a lady who actually condoned using the second wife’s income to pay the ex more in modification. Who is she for? It certainly is not for Woman in Florida. For every payer of alimony in Florida there are numerous family members and friends who suffer with them

To Dana: I totally relate to your frustration. The Rep who voted no and spoke out for the status quo is Rep Elaine Schwartz of Hollywood. I have communicated with her through Facebook and she wrote:

Elaine SchwartzI do not understand the equities of ñot including a second spouse’s income in the calculation while wanting to include the ex’s companion or supportive relation’s finances. Ive had many emails but this and other unconsistencies can only hurt women.
Its taking a step backwards.
Elaine