Token White Member: The Problem With Foreign K-pop Idols

A new girl group called The Gloss just announced their impending debut a few days ago. Not much is known about The Gloss or their management, but we do know that they are being touted as an “international group” with four members: Grace, a Korean-American hailing from Chicago; Liz and Sol-E from Korea, and Olivia from France.

From their teaser picture, The Gloss looks like another run-of-the-mill K-pop girl group in funky leggings and dyed hair. But if you squint a little bit, you might notice that there’s one member who is a little different. And she’s a little different because she’s…not Asian.

Wait, a non-Asian in a K-pop group?! Wow, looks like K-pop has finally learned let go of their nationalistic streak and is beginning to embrace multiculturalism by allowing foreigners to become K-pop idols! I mean, it sure took them long enough, right? Stop the presses! Break out the champagne! Let’s throw a party!

Except…let’s not.

About a year and a half ago I wrote a piece on SM’s global auditions and the controversy surrounding the idea that the only people with a real shot at achieving K-pop stardom were East Asians. Korean entertainment companies have been holding overseas auditions for quite some time now, but even after all these years, the dearth of non-East Asian faces on the K-pop stage essentially speaks for itself.

As I explained in my previous article, the reasoning behind favoring East Asians over any other race makes a lot of sense when one considers the ways in which K-pop has been marketed for the past ten years. As much as K-pop has recently grown to become a global phenomenon, there is still little doubt in the fact that K-pop is still recognized as an Asian music scene with Asian performers, and that the bulk of the K-pop fan market lies within Asia. Thus, Korean entertainment companies are completely justified in favoring people of East Asian descent when choosing potential trainees. It’s not because Korean entertainment companies are exercising their racism muscles when they favor East Asian recruits; it’s because that’s the way K-pop has worked for the past decade or so, and it still works pretty well today.

As aforementioned, however, it would be foolish to ignore K-pop’s rapid spread outside of Asia over the past couple of years. Now more than ever, Hallyu has become an important facet of the Korean political and economic identity, and Western purveyors of K-pop are the next players up at bat. With Western fans consuming more K-pop than ever before, the next logical step might be to begin casting Westerners as K-pop idols.

But the sight of a European face in an otherwise all-Asian K-pop group is bound to come off as a surprise to almost anyone who notices this irregularity. Some are excited at the prospect of seeing a non-Asian on the K-pop stage. Others are uncomfortable with it, though many might not be able to put their finger on why. In any case, though, there’s something about seeing Olivia in The Gloss that catches our attention in a way that forces us to think about the implications of having a non-East Asian as a Korean pop idol.

After all, Olivia is the first non-Asian K-pop idol group member, and the first of anything is always bound to stir up some curiosity and controversy. The same could be said about Hangeng when he became the first non-Korean idol to debut in Korea; his placement in Super Junior drew a considerable amount of media attention to the entire group, and his Chineseness was highlighted at almost every possible opportunity. But in the end, things mellowed out and Hangeng was eventually regarded as just another Super Junior member instead of the strange kid from China wearing the mask during music broadcasts. Should the debut of the first white K-pop girl group member be treated with the same regard as the debut of the first Chinese K-pop idol?

Well, if we’re working under the assumptions that Olivia has no ulterior motives in being a K-pop star apart from the chance to pursue her passion of performing and entertaining, and if we’re talking in purely objective terms of shoulds and should-nots, then sure — there’s no reason to treat Olivia any differently than any other K-pop idol. But this doesn’t negate the fact that Olivia’s debut as a white K-pop idol is at a critical junction of the intersection between Hallyu and the Western K-pop market. One cannot fairly assess Olivia making her K-pop debut as a white woman without considering the greater context of whiteness and its place in K-pop.

The elevated position of whiteness and white people in K-pop has been discussed in the K-pop blogosphere ad nauseum. One doesn’t have to squint too hard to see the ways in which whiteness is glorified in K-pop: close-ups of white audience members during music show broadcasts; music video casting calls open only to white women; the manipulation of makeup and Photoshop to emulate European facial features…the list goes on. Obviously, whiteness isn’t limited to K-pop or Korea, but the fact that it substantiates itself so conspicuously in the teeny microcosmic world of K-pop speaks volumes about its potency.

But when it comes to Olivia’s debut, many seem to have skirted around the issue or ignored it completely. If we’re already having all these discussions about whiteness in the context of K-pop fandom, the debut of a white person as an actual K-pop artist should only serve to make the issue even more complex and raise even more discussion. It’s still too soon to tell what kind of impact Olivia might make on the Korean entertainment scene, but if there’s one thing we know for sure, it’s that K-pop is not colorblind — for better or for worse. Olivia might be a talented singer, but it would be naive to assume that her singing talent will be the main source of her marketing power. Some have said that Olivia’s place in The Gloss is simply to serve as the token white member. While that’s certainly a valid comment to make, it barely scratches the surface of the issue. For one, it lends way to the theory that the chances of Olivia being praised and being mistreated because of her ethnicity are equal — a theory that is effectively debunked by several decades’ worth in social science and whiteness studies proving that cultures everywhere largely regard white people in a favorable light.

If there’s one way to demonstrate the role that whiteness will inevitably play in Olivia’s debut, it’s this: white K-pop fans — nameless, faceless members of fangirl mobs — are singled out and given an inordinate amount of attention by Korean press and Korean entertainment companies simply because they are white. Despite the fact that white K-pop fangirls are (and oftentimes want to be) simply a part of a larger, likeminded crowd of fangirls, they are individualized and seen as special on the basis that they are white.

This phenomenon is seen especially clearly in the way Asian-American fans (particularly non-Korean-American fans) and white fans are regarded by Korean entertainment companies. Asian-American K-pop fans are every bit as “foreign” and Westernized as white fans, but white fans are always the ones with the privilege of holding the “foreign fan” title while Asian-American fans are rendered effectively invisible or useless by entertainment companies looking to increase their foreign star power. And while black and Latino fans might also be labeled as “foreign fans,” they have their own share of prejudices to face when it comes to K-pop. Case in point: there is a reason why the fan who was picked to go up on stage during Changmin and Kyuhyun’s duet at SMTown Anaheim last year was a thin blonde girl with classic European features, even though there were also a ton of Asian, black, or Latino fans in the audience to choose from. Even though fandom is usually regarded as being a faceless monolith with little acknowledgement of the individualities of the fans therein, white K-pop fans have been repeatedly pointed out, elevated, and celebrated as individuals over all other “foreign” K-pop fans.

So if otherwise-anonymous white K-pop fans can be lifted out of their anonymity by the sole merit of their being white, what does that mean for a white K-pop idol like Olivia, who is already being elevated by the merit of her being a celebrity? If anything, it means that we will see the same glorification of whiteness practiced regularly with white K-pop fans, but this time on a much larger and much more visible stage. Usually, the increased visibility of a problematic issue helps to expose the problematic nature of the issue for all its worth. However, the lack of discussion on whiteness as a crucial factor to Olivia’s debut serves as an indication that not many people know or care about the preferential treatment of white people in K-pop. Therefore, no matter how much preferential treatment Olivia might receive on account of being white, the lack of a pre-existing concern for the proliferation of white glorification in K-pop guarantees that the preferential treatment will almost never be seen as an outrightly negative thing. In fact, it might even be seen as a positive thing — and that’s where the real danger lies.

As I alluded to at the beginning of the article, many international K-pop fans are unhappy with the fact that Korean entertainment companies only seem to cast East Asians, leaving non-East Asians with virtually no shot at K-pop stardom. Olivia’s debut might serve as a sign of hope to some, defying the assumption that you must be Asian in order to be a K-pop star. The allure of becoming a K-pop idol is strong: auditions are held often in locations throughout the world, and you might not even have to be all that talented at singing or dancing to be considered because you’ll be in training for at least two years learning how to sing and dance once you get in. K-pop idoldom is both glamorous and accessible, and the latter helps to make the dream all the more tangible for young pop-idol hopefuls.

And that dream is dangled right in front of the noses of these young pop-idol hopefuls — that is, until a door with a sign reading “Sorry, But You Are Not Asian; Maybe Try The X Factor” slams in their faces, destroying any hopes of becoming a K-pop idol. And of course, once you bring up the subject of race, all holds are off. Forget the possibility that K-pop companies might only cast Asians because their primary market is in Asia; no, the only reason why K-pop companies don’t let non-Asians become K-pop stars is because they’re racist.

This is obviously a foolhardy assumption to make, but the fact that Olivia’s debut is being seen as some sort of “victory” or as this beacon of hope to non-Asian K-pop idol hopefuls is directly reflective of the idea that the all-Asian casting of K-pop idols is unprogressive or fundamentally racist and needs to be changed for the sake of a better tomorrow. And some might argue that the increasing popularity of K-pop in Western countries necessitates the addition of non-Asian idols to the K-pop scene — but is it really necessary at this point? Do we really need idol groups with a token white member so that white K-pop fans have someone to relate to? It makes no sense for Korean entertainment companies to expend time, energy and money recruiting, training, and integrating a European K-pop star when European audiences are eating up an Asian-dominated, Korean-speaking K-pop scene just fine.

The only people who would benefit from white people joining the K-pop industry are white people. More than that, however, there’s really no argument in support of welcoming white people into the K-pop scene (as we’ve already established that the primary motivation behind casting Asians as K-pop idols is not fueled by racism) apart from the fact that there are some white K-pop fans who just really, really, really want a shot at becoming a K-pop idol. And of course, there’s nothing wrong with wanting something, but it’s one thing to want to become a K-pop idol, and another to view it as an injustice when you can’t become a K-pop idol.

Story time.

As an Asian-American, one of the main reasons why I was so drawn into K-pop in the first place was because it was an extremely, extremely rare instance where I could see Asian faces like mine singing and dancing on stage. K-pop was a place in which the idea of Asians being pop stars was accepted and normalized. Needless to say, you don’t get that in the Western world. I’ve loved to sing ever since I was little, but I always thought of it as an “inappropriate” or “unsuitable” hobby because the Western culture around me dictated that singing is just not something that Asians are supposed to do, let alone be good at. For a time, I even believed that no matter how much I practiced, I could never be as good as my white friends in choir because I was convinced that Asians just weren’t biologically built for singing since there were so few Asian singers out there. This all might sound ridiculous and illogical, but consider the fact that the most famous Asian singer in the United States is William Hung. I think you get my point.

But even after immersing myself in K-pop for so long and getting over my false belief that Asians don’t sing, the idea of an Asian-American pop star achieving mainstream success in the United States was so far-fetched — and it still is, and it probably will be for a very, very long time. K-pop, however, remained a place where the idea of Asians playing pop star was seen as normal and — with the right amount of determination and luck — feasible. K-pop auditions in the United States was one of the few avenues where Asian-Americans had a shot at achieving their dreams of becoming entertainers without the added pressure of battling against cultural stereotypes.

I attended the SM global audition in New York for fun last year, but felt a moment of sudden solemnness after seeing the expanse of other Asian faces just like mine in the waiting room and feeling for the very first time that things were finally fair — not because I lacked confidence in my singing to “compete” against non-Asians, but because this was perhaps the first time I would be judged solely for my singing abilities. I would not have to worry about someone asking me if I played the violin or piano in addition to singing. I would not have to worry about someone assuming that I couldn’t hit a high note or pull off a complicated ad-lib because their only other instance of a singing Asian they’d ever seen was William Hung. I would not have to worry about someone telling me that I “sung well for a little Asian girl.” I would not have to worry about any of these things because the existence of K-pop — a pop entertainment scene composed entirely of Asians — proved all of these things wrong, and more.

Obviously, Korean entertainment companies like SM don’t set up these global auditions with the intention of creating an avenue for Asian-American pop idol wannabes to reach stardom in the face of an oppressive, stereotype-perpetuating Eurocentric society. But for many Asian-Americans, this is what these global auditions mean to them, and even though the chances of actually becoming a K-pop idol are slim to none, the fact that this avenue exists serves as a beacon of hope. Hell, the fact that there is an entire entertainment scene upheld by young singing and dancing Asians is a beacon of hope in itself. As far as pop entertainment goes, K-pop is one of the few things that Asians and Asian-Americans still have to themselves, while the rest of Western entertainment continues to be unwelcoming to Asians.

With that said, the fact that white K-pop fans feel entitled to have as much of a fair shot as K-pop idoldom as Asians comes off as being a bit irritating, and the fact that a white woman like Olivia chose to pursue K-pop idoldom when she could have pursued a career as a singer in France just as easily (unlike, say, Asians who are living in France) is irksome. There’s no doubt in my mind that Olivia was talented enough to make the cut — the teaser video of the group proves that Olivia is a capable singer with a lot of potential. And there’s no doubt in my mind that Olivia probably worked her butt off to get to debut, and should The Gloss continue to carry on with a healthy, long-lived career, she will continue to work hard to build her identity and reputation as a singer. At the end of the day, I don’t mean to use Olivia as a scapegoat for my supposed failed pop star dreams. Rather, the fact that Olivia’s debut as a white, non-Asian K-pop idol is regarded as a sign of K-pop’s “social progressivism” or “acceptance of cultural inclusivity” — that’s the real problem here. And the fact that Olivia’s whiteness will undoubtedly be praised, elevated, and seen as superior over Asian characteristics as she works as a K-pop idol in Asia only serves to add insult to injury.

Would it be nice if people of all ethnicities could have a part in the K-pop music industry and become privy to all the great things that K-pop idoldom has to offer? Sure — but this “We Are the World” approach that fails to take into account the fact that current preexisting cultural biases and the omnipresent potency of whiteness will only contribute towards making K-pop even more prone to glorifying whiteness at an even more visible scale than it does now. Even if we were to step outside of the realm of the White-Asian dichotomy — if The Gloss had chosen to debut a black or Latina member as the token “foreign member,” by doing so they would not pander to whiteness and might even start some fruitful and productive dialogue about race and negative stereotypes against blacks and Latinos in Asian society. Adding a white member, however, does nothing to further the dialogue, but it does further propagate the idea that at the end of the day, white people are entitled to anything and everything they want.

The future of The Gloss is still rather nebulous at this point: they’ve proven that they’re a musically talented group and there are some great voices in there, but they’re also one of a bajillion rookie groups that will be debuting on the K-pop scene this year. So who knows? Maybe they’ll stay so far under the radar that no one will have ever noticed that K-pop debuted its first white K-pop group member this year. But regardless of whether or not The Gloss ever manages to make its way out of nugudom, the time for a conversation on whiteness in K-pop is now.

Related

Frankly if she can sing and dance well (i.e is talented) instead of just a pretty face meant to attract more foreign fans, then I have nothing against her.

hapacalgirl

Just youtubed their “Sexy Back ” cover and the girl is definitely not dead weight. She has a really good voice as does the rest of the member. They are really good at harmonizing and have a really nice RnB sound to their vocal tones (sorta reminds me of jpop group BRIGHT) so I really hope that their korean music is less pop and more RnB.

Their cover can be found here:https://www(.)youtube(.)com/watch?v=sdJJPqZzRpU

I’m just waiting for the day that someone who is from a culture that isn’t “traditionally prized” for looks can be successful in K-pop. Either they pick East Asians, or they take Caucasians. What about the Middle East? What about Africa? What about South Asia? What about South America? Do they not exist, except for when idols need their money?

And why am I not surprised Oliva is French? (Let’s be clear, I nothing against Oliva, as she did nothing wrong.)

Oh, and one of my favorite lines from a PR team that shall remain nameless. “X artist is popular in South America and Peru” OTL Yup. Very culturally sensitive of you, K-pop.

^This is me loving Patricia’s article and being frustrated about all the problems that have been discussed in the above.

In a day an age where people proclaim that we’ve reached a state of “equality” amongst all people, it’s moments like these that you remember that the truth is in another galaxy. We still are culturally insensitive, ignorant, and racist. We pay attention to the color of our skin and judge self-worth based upon it. When we try to find ourselves represented in a realistic manner in media, it’s nearly impossible. When I want to idolize someone who looks like me, I come up empty handed. This is the truth folks, regardless of what culture and background you come from.

Tanya Joshi

Random point, but thank you for including South Asia in your list of foreign fans! Everyone seems to forget that we exist, haha (not really, I doubt they did, but for some reason it annoyed me that we were never mentioned…) ANYWAYS :D

It really sucks. And what’s worse is that my own South Asian country of heritage looks down on the very thing that we are, dark-skinned.

Streby

I swear the amount of aunties that have told me my ‘fair skin’ is enviable is sick.

hapacalgirl

I wonder if this is only certain ethnicities or maybe because I haven’t met my relatives that actually live in the Philippines but the color of my skin has never been a topic, other than the occasional you need to get some sun comment (I’m hapa and my brother inherited the ability to tan while I inherited the very pale sensitive to sun skin and do nothing but burn).

This is a very big Indian (and other Hindu areas) issue, because it has a lot to do with our history. When the “whiter” Aryans came to India, the Dravidian (natives) and Aryan cultures and people mixed to become the people we know as the “South Asians”; however the mixing occurred at different proportions based on the person’s place in society. People of the “highest caste” (which is a stupid concept to begin with) tend to have much more Aryan blood in them, because the Aryan ethnicity was considered to be dominant, especially in religious contexts.

This is also the basis for the comment that I mentioned above. Brahmanas are the highest caste, and are therefore expected to be lighter skinned than most. People “question” your caste when you’re dark.

Streby

Its surprising how important these things are even today; I mean racism and reverse-racism is so rampant everywhere and its really such a part of life; I have a friend who has a grandmom who refused to touch her own grandchild because it was dark skinned…

hapacalgirl

I did not know that, think you very much for that information (I mean this sincerely since comments can come off a bit sarcastic). Color of skin is still a big thing in the Philippines since it has a lot do with vast differences between the wealthy class and the lower class in the Philippines and the fact that for a long period of time the Philippines was under the rule of the Spaniards. I honestly would not be surprised if I do get treated differently when I do eventually visit family there. But since many of my relatives that I have met have been in the US for quite some time they don’t really comment (at least to my face) about my skin color but they do comment about my appearance all of the time mostly about weight (but lets be real, what asian family doesn’t comment about weight -_- )

Yes the concept of Aryan and the swastika were taken from Indian and Buddist lore by Nazis and twisted becoming symbols of hate.

Tanya Joshi

It’s so true. Every year when I go to visit my family in India, I see COUNTLESS of ads for skin cream to make your skin really light, even for the men. And my grandma loves (I mean LOVES) watching those typical Indian dramas, and there’s one where the son of a rich family SOMEHOW got married to a darker skin girl and everyone in the family looks down on her (even the husband…) (how’d they even get married if no one likes her…?) and every time she gets pregnant they abort her babies because they don’t want a dark skin. I know it’s just a drama and not the opinion of all of India, but the way they glorify white skin is just annoying. You are what you are, and you look good with whatever skin colour you have. I don’t understand this idealization of even skin colour…

Ugh, I hate those shows so much. The worst part is that I’ve heard people make those kinds of comments in real life; mocking women for the skin they have. The most insidious comments are like these: “How do you have such dark skin for a Brahmana?” It’s pathetic really.

When I saw the article on Kai’s skin color, my favorite comment was this:

“…If he’s brown, then I’m so black, I disappear in the night.”

-The Jade Bullet

Sigh. There’s nothing we can really do about it. Especially since we’re all invisible anyway.

Tanya Joshi

Agreed! Ugh…

Tanya Joshi

Ugh, you do not realize HOW MUCH I agree with that last statement: “Half the time [(more like 99% of the time, haha)], South Asia is not even considered Asian”

Joana Santos

I’m portuguese and people usualy mock me for my light skin, they say I look ill and like a dead person. I really don’t get why having brown-ish golden skin or easily tanning skin is ideal and kind of brag-worthy in Portugal (and other western countries)… The ideal beauty is different everywhere…

Here’s the thing why are people never satisfied with what they’re born with and proud of what they are and whatever culture they belong to? It’s okay to have more afinity with another culture but your own background is also important, right? It’s a bit disrespectful to do so.

I really like my country and I am a proud portuguese girl but sometimes I do wish I was born Asian, because let’s admit I don’t even have the same oportunities to be in Kpop, even if really talented… So the way the person who wrote it felt is the way I’d feel as a white girl trying to break through the Asian Pop market, per example…

The way people feel about another culture, probably is the same as the people born in that culture feels about theirs.

I do get the point on your coment and the whole article up there too… I can’t even understand how white people can be so ‘high-standardized’ (I don’t think this word exists) since the bigger world problems *cough*worldwars*cough* were created by us thinking that we’re the dominating race and superior, reality check we aren’t! (also I’m not trying to detriorate the white people image at all, but it is true and an undiniable fact that they’ve made really atrocious mistakes while thinking they are superior and dreaming od world domination)

Discrimination, racism and prejudice are a knife with double edges since it needs two parties who don’t know each other preoperly, so they create pre-consieved ideas and keep each other away with those same knives. And they usually realise their stupidity when they’re stabbed and see how similar they actually are.
I don’t even know how this coment turned out like this lmao

ZOMG GMOZ

Funny you mention that. The fact that white skin is hated, mocked, and shunned in all white countries is certainly hinting about the fact that the media, governments and policies of white countries and it’s leaders and officials are in fact anti-white.. and not “systemically racist” after all.

Just like “The Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965” and something called “Affirmative Action”! Amazing!

Patchola XD

I tottaly understand you I’m really white to and I’m portuguese, people are always saying that I seem a vampire.
They like to bother me because I’m white and I want to have a lighter skin but they dont bother the persons that want to have a darker skin. (I have really sensitive skin to the sun and my skin is naturaly white).

Patchola XD

I was suppost to go to the JYP companny but I refused it because the K-Pop world is to demanding they want perfection something that doesn’t exist.

Chocho268

‘And why am I not surprised Olivia is French?’ haha, glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed that!

Jeeyu Kim

yah korea doesnt have middle eastern or african idols but they do have south asian artists. nickhun from 2pm is thai-chinese and i believe there is gonna be a filipino (i think. not super sure) in a new yg girl group. maybe it is because of the dark skin or maybe its because kpop isnt big in the middle east or africa. which could be the reason why korean agencies dont bother to audition them.

There’s so many things wrong with this video that I don’t think I can enumerate them all.

Tanya Joshi

HOLY CRAP… WTF IS WRONG WITH THOSE TWO. Everything they said was completely stupid. “Do you want to go to hell [since you believe in multiple Gods and that’s against the 10 Commandments]?” is just, ugh……………..
Are they calling her African because she has darker skin!? -.-
Sorry, that video was insane, I had to vent, haha.

I love how their justification for everything is, “but the Ten Commandments…” Dude. That argument is already invalid, because you’re using circular reasoning.

Otherwise, I don’t really care about the “conversion” BS that was going on because that’s going to happen regardless of who you are. The only thing that seems like a subliminal racist comment in that whole section was the “I don’t think I should associate with you because you don’t believe in Jesus…” (since they stupidly think every Indian is Hindu).

Tanya Joshi

UGGGHHHH!
I feel bad for getting worked up on this when it’s not COMPLETELY related to the article, haha.

SORRY TO EVERYONE WHO IS READING THIS AND THINKING, “Why are they discussing this here”

Saiqa

Sorry for butting in out of nowhere a month later but oh my gosh why did I watch that video ._. I’m at a loss for words. I am neither Indian nor Hindu, but as a Bangladeshi a lot of the things I could relate to and all the African comments at the start.. uhm what? Have they never seen an Indian/South East Asian before?

This is absolutely ridiculous.

leoGeo

Indian arent even asian. they are middle eastern . Indian was once a part of Pakistan. India is apart of new asia not old asia.

Gaya_SB

Actually it’s the other way around… and Indians are very much Asian.

leoGeo

They arent. If you where to look at a skull of an Indian they have a Caucasoid shaped skull not asian. My mother is roma we came from India nealry 5,000 years ago. And we consider our selfs middle eastern , because it was apart of the middle east in ancient times.

Gaya_SB

I was speaking geographically

Amethist

If you where to look at a skull of an Indian they have a Caucasoid shaped skull not Mongoloid*. There, corrected it for you. Indians are Asian, because they live in Asia. The racial term you are referring to, is called Mongoloid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid

Roshni Nair

So?? Asia is basically a potpourri of various cultures..not just those of Korea, Japan or China. And while it is true that romas were Indian migrants (they descend from the Dalit community in India) and that they consider themselves as middle eastern (it’s actually south asian as India is a south asian country, but I dont want to go into the technicalities), it doesn’t mean they aren’t of Asian origin. The Middle East itself is a part of Asia and all Middle easterners are Asians. Kindly brush up your history and geography before making such absurd assertions.

Its like Turkey and parts of Romania where once apart of persia but not anymore and they do not call themselves persians. The global map has changed several times in the years.

Roshni Nair

Pray tell what kind of justification is that? Pakistan and Bangladesh were a part of India too but not any more and they dont call themselves Indians. Asia is a continent and has always constituted of the Middle east, South Asian and East Asian countries..no matter how many times the global map has changed:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Asia

재도

You’re reaching, Stretch Armstrong.

Tara Alavi

Omg u dumb-dumb like what the actual fuck? Indians ARE asian. As a Bangladeshi it pisses me off enough to grab a knife and slit my wrists when people only consider Eastern-Asians as Asians. OF COURSE Indians are Asian and Pakistanis too since both countries are located in the continent of Asia. Simple LOGIC you dufus. Rant over.

U MAD??

Do you use chop sticks?

Roshni Nair

lmao..so you mean only those who use chopsticks are Asian? Are you ppl living under a rock? India is a part of Asia and Indians are asians just like you lot. FYI, Asia does not comprise of only Korea, Japan, China and other East Asian countries..no matter how much you ppl claim it to be. Don’t know what they teach in your schools nowadays..

Roshni Nair

Quit trolling

Aja Nile

YG terminates groups like no one’s business. SuPearls was terminated for having a half black girl.

Well there are hardly any asians in the western music market so… idg why ppl are mad over kpop bco it doesnt have any “dark-skin” ppl

Aaliyah Furqan

They do feel like their status is raised by having the French girl dance and sing with/for them.

재도

But yet everyone was fine with a Spica member appropriating French culture by dressing like a stereotypical French girl in their racist music video for You Don’t Love Me.. as well as all sorts of white culture appropriation all over Kpop.

Amethist

If anything, I mostly wonder “What about Southeast Asians?”. Nichkhun is Thai-Chinese, so I think he should count as East Asian. But I haven’t heard of any other Southeast Asians, yet it’s the area where k-pop is most popular after East Asia. Furthermore, East Asians and Southeast Asians are the same race, so a Southeast Asian wouldn’t stand out that much.

I think when she says “global phenomenon”, she means that the rise Kpop has in other countries compared those countries’ music. It’s not as popular as the countries’ native music, but it is pretty popular.

IULOVES2U

Life is harsh so even if China or any Asian country become the first Power Economy white people will be fine.

Nabeela

This is such a tricky topic and Patricia you nailed it. I’m so interested to see how this plays out, because while it is similar to Hangeng being the first Chinese K-pop star, Hangeng was still East Asian. It’s a whole other ball game for a European to break into the young idol life scene, and a whole other realm of issues come to light because of it. Great read!

Sun_&_Raine

I have nothing against Olivia (because it’s my first time hearing about her), but it really irks me that she’s already about to debut, yet Lee Michelle is still in the dark. When is the K-Pop industry going to understand that their glorification of white people is very obvious and is starting to bother some non-white foreign fans. If K-pop really wants to break out into the west, they need to understand that there are a large majority of westerners who are of color (Asian, Latino, Black, etc.) and that we are not ignorant to their blatant favoritism.

I don’t think they will ever recognize Latinos & Blacks as on the same level as Whites.

….but yet they copy our trends lol

itismoi

Well, considering that Latinos can be of any race including white…and also black, Asian, mixed, etc. I think, and forgive me, your comment is ignorant on it’s own saying that Latinos are people of color. Some of them are some are not…like me. I would like too see you tell a blue eyed blond from Argentina or Uruguay that they are of color. They would laugh at the absurdity of it. Westeners, like you call us, are worse than Koreans. At least Koreans live in a very homogeneous country. They don’t really see much of other races there. What’s the excuse for Americans being so ignorant about race/ethnicity?? BTW, race is not the same as ethnicity. Hispanic/Latino is an ethnicity not a race.

Spanish, is not the same as Latino. Spanish are people from Europe, they would be considered Caucasian/white. Latinos are people from Latin America. These people can also be white or of color. Using Latino to refer to people of color is wrong and ignorant because that is not what it means. It is just an ethnicity. The media is doing such a good job in perpetuating that image though. If someone want to refer to someone else they should use the correct term, White Hispanic/Latino, Black Hispanic/Latino, etc.

I’m a brazilian of Portuguese, Amerindian, Japanese and African descent so, since I don’t belong to any race due to my mixed heritage, I’m considered Pardo (light-dark skinned) in my country and Latino by my foreign friends ’cause well, I was born in a Latin-American country after all. And I agree with the article, I’d rather like to see more mixed people than the overrated Caucasians in Kpop. However, I think it’s important to be careful with taking the discussion this far at such an early point ’cause I just wanna grab my popcorn to see the reactions in Korea. If upcoming T-Ara member Dani, who’s just as Korean-American as Jessica and Tiffany is getting a luckwarm reception because she can’t speak a lick of Korean, I wonder how Olivia will feel from now on, since she has no East Asian heritage or cultural ties at all. But the thing is: Like it or not, the girl is gorgeous and by watching just the few seconds of the teaser, I already can tell that she sing better than half girl group members nowadays. Just have to wait and see if she’ll become a CF queen (since the have the desired European features and stuff), but looking at where Chocolat’s at within the industry, I doubt it. Let’s keep an eye on The Gloss then :P

They have Spanish blood because Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico were colonized by Spain, they are Latino/Hispanic because that is an ethnicity, not a race. Do you get that Hispanic/Latino is not a race?? I am white but my ethnicity is hispanic. They may as well refer as Latino because it is their ethnicity. However, not their race. I hope you understand that.

I know the difference between race and ethnicity…. but we use the word “race” when talking about ethnicity

itismoi

But they can’t be used interchangeably at all, since they are not the same thing. Race is race, ethnicity is ethnicity. I know I can’t make you understand or even change your reasoning if you don’t want to yourself. But it is wrong to use race in place of ethnicity. I don’t see how you understand what ethnicity is if you use race in it’s place.

PandaPanda

Some people just overthink it a tad bit too much…

hapacalgirl

But the interesting thing is if you go into countries such as Spain or even our bordering country Mexico, a lot of spaniards/chicanos/mexicans are actually quite light skinned I live 20 minutes from the border in a predominantly minority area ( I can count the amount of white people I know on my two hands) and many of the latinos I have seen and met are pretty light skinned.

itismoi

Spain is an European country, people are white. There is a lot of white people in Latin America, which includes Mexico. There is also a lot of black people in Latin America, a lot of natives, a lot of mixed, and Asians too.

bee

You’d think that, but then you look at stuff like how “The Week” cartoonized the Boston Bombing terrorists as brown skinned (if you don’t know of the controversy, I’ll fill you in: they’re not. Authorities described them as white, yet the magazine felt it would be appropriate to draw them with brown skin. Because duh, white people aren’t terrorists.) You’re right. Americans ARE ignorant about race and ethnic issues. But even Latinos who can pass for white like my mom are demonized just because they’re Latino…

itismoi

I looked it up and all I can say is WOW. They look nothing like they actually do in real life. How appropriate of them to draw them with brown skin (sarcasm) as ignorant as that it, it’s makes me laugh mainly because of how much it speaks about our country.

bee

sigh, i know. in the states, being light-skinned but not white means you’re acceptable, but not necessarily accepted (like you alluded to before, this perception is different outside of the US. my mom is mexican and has some spanish blood, but she’s verrry light-skinned so as far as my dad’s family is concerned, she’s white, haha.)

sheisgone

Well there are hardly any asians in the western music market

agentmirror

All the more reason for the Asian music market to step up and be the better “person” and allow other races to be included.

SorayaVonDerAlm

Why should POC always be the better person?

Esmymarie

it hurts that they don’t choose black, latinos and focus more on whites in the western cuz it puts me more down cuz i wanted to audition and brings me down and think ill never have a chance, millions of fans are black latinos act not just whites in the west. It deeply saddens me

Honestly, I don’t think it’s fair to slam the Western market for it’s lack of inclusion of Asians while effectively doing the same to a white person in an Asian market. It’s obviously true that Asians don’t have much of a foothold in the Western entertainment industry, and I personally wish that was different as well, but responding to that be making the same move just seems somewhat childish and counterproductive.

Regarding white trainees in general, I’ve heard some interesting stories. Contrary to popular fandom myth, white trainees do exist, particularly in SM. Supposedly, though, they don’t last because of the bullying based on the color of their skin. While unfortunate for the Western trainees, this is understandable for the reason you pointed out: they have an automatic edge on the competition because of the color of their skin. (I think it speaks to the severity of S. Korea’s bullying problem that this is so effective, though, but that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.)

When it comes down to Olivia, I would honestly just like to wish her the best. Maybe it’s unfair that she had two options while Asians typically have one, but I think that almost makes it more admirable that she chose to follow the path she truly wanted to, even if it was the road less traveled. And I enjoyed the videos The Gloss released, so I just hope that she is met with respect and not hostility.

But it’s not the same the same thing. Whites in Asian markets have privilege in ways that Asians in White markets do not. You said it yourself in your last paragraph, “she had two options while Asians typically have one” and that in itself is enough for grounds of discomfort.

As they say, “Be the change you want to see in the world”. I don’t think it’s not a concern, but placing the same restrictions over the Asian market that are placed on the Western ones isn’t going to help the problem go away. I view this is more as a step towards integration than anything.

And also, as I’ve said, numerous testimonials have stated the trainee life as a white is nigh impossible because of the cold-shoulder presented by competitive Korean trainees. It’s not like this was easy. Olivia could very well have decided to pursue the Hollywood market, and honestly, who are we to say it would be harder? The premise of this article is that she got of easy because of Korean idolization of the Caucasian look, but we don’t know what happened behind the scenes.

I’m not sure I understand how it’s more admirable for the person presented with more choices. And if a white foreigner is going to go into the Korean market to try to co-opt their music — and by extension, their culture since their music is so embedded within their culture — of course there are going to be difficulties.

The problem with Asians breaking into white markets stems first from Asian Americans and Asian Europeans not being able to break into their own native markets when they are from those countries, and thus of course by extension Asians from Asia are going to have even more problems doing so (the perpetual foreigner). Asians FROM America and FROM Europe can’t even break into their own goddamn markets, but white performers in other countries are more admirable for being able to withstand ostracism that arose in the first place because of, like you said, they had “an automatic edge” by being white?

I swear they don’t know what tough is. Trying walking in the shoes of an minority….having strikes already placed on you before doing anything

Iro Mage

Trying walking in the shoes of a QUILTBAG person. At least racial minorities, nowadays, have the right to get married.

Stephanie Hicks

You do realize there are QUILTBAG people that are also racial minorities, right?

Iro Mage

Well then their life must be doubly hard. I just find it odd when people say that minorities have it the worst. It confuses me, as I have gotten twice as many death threats for being asexual/panromantic than my friends who are considered racial minorities.

Stefnick

You do realize people of color are harassed, murdered, exploited and blocked from opportunities than white people because of their race, right?

Gaya_SB

I just don’t see why the onus has to be on the less-privileged group to do this, as inspirational as Mahatma Gandhi’s words may be. I’d like to see the American market be more open as well.

severely

Well, to be fair, the American market is HELLA competitive. It’s true that it’s the biggest music market in the world, but it’s also the hardest to break into, and the hardest to stay in.

The number of super talented American Idol winners, runners up, etc. compared to the number that are actually successful singers now should give you some idea. Hell, and those people had millions of fans cheering them on even before their debut.

I agree we can’t really decide which one is harder, but even if the American market would be easier, due to the lack of racism, there are other factors that would still make the American market extremely difficult to actually break into.

Guest

the American entertainment market is extremely racist. it’s mostly white people with a small amount of black people and an even smaller amount of non-white latinos. the amount of asian people is minuscule.

hapacalgirl

In the acting business for sure but I don’t think you can say the same thing about the American music industry. The American entertainment market includes both industries.

Jaclyn

The American market is SO racist. I was talking with a girl and she was blasted by fans because she hated the term EXOtic for EXO fans (which I hate as well). It connects to this because we came to the point of ‘foreign’ ethnicities in Hollywood. People are turned away because they are too ‘exotic’ and the American market does not like people of color. Even most black celebrities are a lighter black.

Brandon Francis

AMEN TO THIS!

Guest

maybe you should google “white privilege” or “white/european imperialism”. you might learn something.

One Korean-American and one French girl does not an ‘international group’ make. Unfortunately, the mentality of the industry in general, is still stuck at the ‘white person fan = foreign success’ stage.

This is particularly grating in extremely multicultural countries like Sydney and, undoubtedly, America, where it’s the Asian-Australian/American fandom that actually props up 80 – 90% of a K-Pop group’s success (I was at the Sydney Kpop Music Fest in 2011 – you would not have known 80% of the crowd was Asian-Australian by watching the broadcast).

This feels like just another step in the progression of ‘look how awesome and international K-Pop is because we have /white people/ participating now’, ignoring the dozens of foreign Asian and non-white fans who make up the bulk of the ‘invisible fandom’, both as fans and prospective idols : /

Nonetheless, it’s not really Olivia’s fault. I hope she won’t be treated with as much hostility as Han Geng was, but she’s a pretty, thin, white girl so I’m pretty sure she won’t be.

severely

As a white American kpop fan, I don’t see this as a beacon of hope or cause for celebration. It has honestly never bothered me that my Asian pop music featured Asian artists. Quite frankly, if I wanted to listen to white people sing based on the sole fascination of their ~whiteness~ I can get plenty of that in American and European pop.

All I can say is: this girl better be damn talented, because she isn’t getting a party from me just for managing to be white.

Gaya_SB

All four of them can sing pretty well — they even harmonise.

severely

Do we know if she can actually sing Korean fluently? I saw the video of singing Justin Timberlake (it was okay, no JT though), and presumably, she’s going to sing in Korean more than she’s going to sing in English as a kpop idol.

K-pop stands for Korean pop. As sad as it is, the only reason why only East Asians are included in K-pop groups is because they look very similar to Koreans and have similar mannerisms. Looking at a group with East Asians from a distance, they all look Korean. As “global” as Kpop is, the truth is that the prime market is still Korea and Asia.

Because of this, even if Koreans suffer from “white superiority,” which I can attest to as a Korean American with Korean relatives, I highly doubt that The Gloss or Olivia will do exceptionally well because more than anything, Koreans are xenophobic. Hence it’s because of this that no one’s running towards Chad Future as if he’s the next biggest thing, but instead they look at him as if he’s really strange.

Rather, I think someone of any ethnicity has a better chance at breaking the Kpop market if they have some Korean blood. It’s more of being able to relate to someone because they have Korean blood or know of the Korean ways than anything else. It’s because of this that artists like Yin Soon Yi or Yoon Mi Rae have been able to become highly respected artists despite facing prejudices from being half black and a non-Korean can kiss his chances of being an artist in Korea goodbye.

Put it frankly, there is no diversity in Kpop as of now because the main market of idols (teenage Asian girls) need to be able to connect with someone in order to really obsess over him and it’s a little hard to do that when he looks, thinks, and acts completely different from you. It’s the same reason why both American and British teems will obsess over One Direction and most Asian teens will not; they’re too different and foreign to them. With that in mind, I think if a foreigner wants a chance in being an idol in the near future, it would probably have to be someone that was born and raised in South Korea.

It was a wonderful article and sorry for the rant~♥

Mini Squid

Very true. This might not be to some people’s liking, especially those who are dreaming of a career as a Kpop arist but has no Asian blood whatsoever, but it is still very true.

ムラサキ

“Rather, I think someone of any ethnicity has a better chance at breaking the Kpop market if they have some Korean blood.”

Not true. Michelle Lee was being talked up as if she was going to be put into a girl group & she was later released from her contract due to the company pres sleeping on her, not making her a priority.

She’s half black & sings some of the pure korean kpop ~singers~ under the table.

Hannah

I don’t know why Michelle was released from YG but the hard truth is that Michelle Lee was able to get to the semi-finals of K-pop Star Because she is half Korean. If Michelle Lee had just been an African American girl auditioning for K-pop Star due to her love of Korean music and culture I can assure you that she wouldn’t have made it past the preliminary rounds. Even with her talent, the judges would have still found an excuse to drop her. I personally think that Michelle Lee still has a chance and will make her debut as seen in how she was featured in Double K’s song.

nisean111 mack

Actually Nicole Curry was not Korean but made it pretty far.

leoGeo

Im just eager to see if this girl group does anything i doubt it but you never know. But it will be a horrible reflection on koreans if this french girls gets more acceptance from koreans than one of their own Michelle Lee. It will make korea look soo bad it wont even be funny. Korea is stuck in old ways , the way to please an audience isnt by catering to white people anymore. I mean if a SM , YG wanted to create a Black eyed-peas’ish group that international targeting glabal network with like 6 members and maybe 2 or 3 korean then i understand but that not the case.

ZOMG GMOZ

Not “old ways”. They are “natural ways”. Races stick together, that is normal to have a country be homogeneous. Only white countries force diversity. Koreans know better (except for the brainfart of the person that finalized allowing 200,000 Muslims into the country – because that mistake has been well-documented throughout history of all the war-torn, violent, rape-riddled crap holes they inhabit currently SUCH AS AFGHANISTAN USED TO BELONG TO OTHER PEOPLES AND TRIBES BEFORE THE MUSLIMS TOOK OVER… THAT ARE ALL DEAD NOW. We get to watch history repeat itself and see the Muslims take over SK from within).

R.I.P. Korea:

When Muslim population remains around 1% of any given
country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a
threat to anyone:

United States — Muslim 1.0%

Australia — Muslim 1.5%

Canada — Muslim 1.9%

China — Muslim 1%-2%

Italy — Muslim 1.5%

Norway — Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other
ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the
jails and among street gangs:

Denmark — Muslim 2%

Germany — Muslim 3.7%

United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%

Spain — Muslim 4%

Thailand — Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.

They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by
Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for
Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it
on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. At this
point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule
themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law.

France — Muslim 8%

Philippines — Muslim 5%

Sweden — Muslim 5%

Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%

The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%

Trinidad & Tobago — Muslim 5.8%

When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will
increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (
Paris — car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will
result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam — Mohammed cartoons).

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of
non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide),
use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

Albania — Muslim 70%

Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%

Qatar — Muslim 77.5%

Sudan — Muslim 70% After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:

Bangladesh — Muslim 83%

Egypt — Muslim 90%

Gaza — Muslim 98.7%

Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%

Iran — Muslim 98%

Iraq — Muslim 97%

Jordan — Muslim 92%

Morocco — Muslim 98.7%

Pakistan — Muslim 97%

Palestine — Muslim 99%

Syria — Muslim 90%

Tajikistan — Muslim 90%

Turkey — Muslim 99.8%

United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of “Dar-es-Salaam” — the
Islamic House of Peace — there’s supposed to be peace because everybody
is a Muslim:

Afghanistan — Muslim 100%

Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%

Somalia — Muslim 100%

Yemen — Muslim 99.9%

Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.

“Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of
Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our
father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the
tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the
infidel.” — Leon Uris, “The Haj”

It is good to remember that in many, many countries,
such as France , the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos
based on their ethnicity. Muslims do not integrate into the community at
large. Therefore, they exercise more power than their national average
would indicate.

” the only reason why only East Asians are included in K-pop groups is
because they look very similar to Koreans and have similar mannerisms.
Looking at a group with East Asians from a distance, they all look
Korean. ”

um no :/

PandaPanda

That’s actually true, if you look at it. Even though companies don’t specify it in global auditions, they look for people that look Korean and are of East Asian heritage. Its implied.

Jane Patterson

Korea doesn’t seem to have had trouble accepting the drummer of Busker Busker, who is a white guy who was an English professor at a Korean university — but then again, they aren’t an idol group, and he’s not particularly visually or vocally prominent. I’m pretty sure the band never made a big deal about having a white member, either.

Guest

You’ll notice that Brad Moore makes an effort to bridge the cultural gap though. He’s not just being all Americanized and trying to change kpop or make it accept him a white dude, but rather he tweets (mostly) in Korean and tries to be as unassuming as possible.

ZOMG GMOZ

It depends on what people consider “Korean” too…

To some people anyone living in Korea, or born in Korea… is a Korean… to others, it means strictly the ethnicity Korean. Hell, your hair-weave and cell phone might be “Korean”…

Same goes for “Asian”… People, food, objects, culture, art, mannerisms, etc. can all be “Asian” or “American” just as well as “Korean”. Depending on the context as well… So while food can be labelled “Asian” to me personally… an Indian person (and Indian food) most certainly cannot be and never will be “Asian”.

The girls are beautiful and attractive. I always look and see all the songs by that band. I do love them and I love their new lot

T.R.

I would think since most kpop artist/record companies/idols steal….I mean, emulate African American music, they’d at least REALLY diversify and put a black/latin/mixed raced (black), in a kpop group. I would think a society as evolved as Korea would get with the program. Modern society with 1950’s thinking though……

Hobak

1950s thinking, really. Would you say America is stuck in the 1950s? No, you wouldn’t, because America’s diverse right?
Have you seen America’s mainstream Hollywood media? Why do you think you don’t see Asians as lead characters often? Because America’s racist?
No, because it doesn’t sell.

Guest

doesn’t sell cause america is racist. lol

T.R.

Do you need some attention or something? Korea is far more racist than America. You see diversity in our media. In Korea? Naw. You even make fun of TAN Korean people. Shameful.

Emily D.

The person wasn’t making a point about America being more racist than korea, s/he was just saying America is racist. Unfortunately, America being racist somewhat true, if not all the way. I live in America, and despite what our government preaches, many of the people I know act pretty racist. I’m not saying America is more racist than Korea or anything.

T.R.

*sigh* ooookay

Obozo

Korea doesn’t need diversity.

Korea didn’t enslave anybody, and it wasn’t built by immigrants on someone’s land.

Sorry, but no affirmative action for you.

T.R.

LOLOLOLOL**pointing at you** LOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Jo

You’re delusional if you think that there is diversity in ‘murican media. It’s sad that I remember being surprised seeing an Asian family in a Verizon commercial that came out for Father’s Day a few years back. And did you not here about the racist backlash for that Cheerios commercial featuring the biracial family?

T.R.

I don’t talk to people who say ‘murican.

Jo

::scratches head:: but you just did… yikes.

T.R.

oh girl please…you reaching……lol

T.R.

Oh shut the hell up. I can name on BOTH hands Asian actors and actresses that have starred in American television and films. Can you name me FIVE black or white actors that have appeared on Korean television FULL TIME???? You can’t. Don’t sit up there on your freakin high horse and try to compare Korea and America because there is NO comparison.

cileft

i think that’s more because korea is 99% ethnic korean, whereas asians/blacks/latinos have lived in the united states for centuries (yes, asians too! chinese-american soldiers fought in the civil war!) and have only just begun making progress in the mainstream (whereas whites gain instant acceptance and admiration in korea). also while you have a valid point that prejudices still exist in korea, you’re turning this argument into america > korea, which comes off as pretty condescending tbh.

T.R.

I don’t care if you think it comes off as condescending to tbh.

T.R.

And if America’s racist, then you can count out the number of Asian actors and actresses that have actually starred in major motion pictures. RAIN even carried a movie by himself. Name me a white/black/hispanic person that carried a movie on their on in Korea? Better yet, a television show? No how about a Kpop group? You fucking can’t.

Can I just mention I haven’t even seen a South Asian or Middle Eastern on my American Television as of yet (who is not ridiculed for his culture)? The world isn’t just about Black/White/(East)Asian/Latino. I’m not degrading the point you’re making, but this is just some perspective.

T.R.

I understand and you’re right. America has a long way to go and I’m not blind to that. But I think we are further along than some countries. That’s just my opinion but I see what you’re saying and you’re absolutely right.

Jo

Some shows for you though: Mindy Project (though Mindy is the only one), Jess’ best friend on New Girl and the assistant in Royal Pains. Very few and very far between as they are not considered part of the “token” quota. Not many, but hey… it’s an incredibly small ant step in regards to American Media.

Emily D.

You make a good point about the Asian actors & actresses, but a lot of the characters they portray are stereotypical. Like, just to name one, the Asian actor/actress is some kind of ninja, fighter, assassin, etc., character. This obviously doesn’t go for EVERY Asian actor/actress, but I see it a lot.

T.R.

That is true. And like I said to someone else, America has a looooooooooooooooooong way to go but at least we make an attempt. Korea doesn’t even do that. That’s all I’m saying.

stephanielikesyou

literally over 99% of the korean population is korean. to conclude that korea is more racist because they don’t have as much diversity in their media is a bit silly. korea is very problematic in the way it treats other ethnicities but i really wouldn’t say they have a responsibility to diversify their media as much as american media does.

T.R.

Ok and that’s YOUR opinion. Diversity in the media is not a “bit” silly. Who do you think you are to say something like that?? I use to live in England and that country is 92% white but I had NO problem finding diversity in their media as far as people of color is concern. Making excuses like that to cover tracks is a “bit” silly for you.

stephanielikesyou

note that i never said diversity in the media was silly – i was pointing out that your conclusion was flawed. i’d love to see more diversity in the media, both korean and american. however, i think that korea does a better job of portraying their actual ethnic demographics than america does. less than 1% of the korean population is non-korean and, of that >1%, i would guess the majority is some variety of asian – chinese, vietnam, thai, etc. a good number of these people (esp. from southeast/central asia) are women who have come abroad to marry korean men and this gets media attention and coverage. you also see that reflected in the music industry where a good number of idols are non-korean asians (victoria, fei, EXO-M, etc.) UK statistics from 2011, on the other hand, seem to show 85.4% white, 7.8% asian, 3.5% black, etc. i don’t know much about english media but, from what i’ve seen, i wouldn’t say that it was ideally diverse. basically, i’m not saying that korea is perfect or anything (far from it!) but i would also definitely stray from making any overreaching assumptions about an entire nation. what seems to you as korea “not trying” may be more just a result of korea’s homogeneity that i would not compare to the demographics of countries like england or the united states.

Guest

also, there aren’t many korean movies with white/black/hispanic stars because 1) korea doesn’t have any stars like that and 2) why would a foreign star come to korea to make that kind of movie? conversely, a korean star has a lot to gain from starring in a hollywood movie, even if it’s one where he has to play a japanese ninja. while there may be non-asians who want to be kpop stars and star in korean dramas/movies/whatever, it isn’t quite the same. for instance, for a white or black american to cry racism when they’re rejected at an SMTOWN audition is different than a korean-american crying racism when being rejected from a hollywood audition, even though ethnicity may have had a role in both cases.

stephanielikesyou

my bad, i don’t know how the double-post happened. ignore this one.

T.R.

Writing essays on NB may be something you look forward to or something that you thrive on but quite frankly, you won’t change my opinion. That’s that. And please stop writing essays on NB. It’s a bit taxing for everyone to have to scroll through all of your words on a site like this. Thanks.

stephanielikesyou

i’m not exactly sure what you mean by NB but dismissing my point (“essay” or otherwise) is rather rude when you yourself started the discussion. you brought up a complex issue and questioned complex social issues; imo, that deserved a decent-sized answer. sorry if it got a bit long but i wanted to back up my opinion with facts. i’m not sure what you hoped to accomplish by posting highly aggressive posts on a discussion board (“Name me a white/black/hispanic person that carried a movie on their on in Korea? Better yet, a television show? No how about a Kpop group? You fucking can’t.”) if not to start a discussion.

T.R.

NB stands for NETIZEN BUZZ. LOLOL! And if you think it’s rude or I’m rude or aggressive, then GO TALK TO SOMEONE ELSE. It’s really so simple, a baby could do it.

T.R.

And last I checked, I didn’t start a discussion with YOU. I replied to someone else. You don’t need to waste anymore energy figuring out what I had hope to accomplish. It’s a freaking message board. Not finding a cure for cancer. Listen, I’m sure there are people on here who can appreciate all you have written. And your thought provoking discussion but I’m not one of them. Have a nice day.

stephanielikesyou

lol aight then, thanks for the entertaining conversation. good day to you too.

T.R.

I got my sites mixed up. NB stands for Netizen Buzz. But this is Seoulbeats so what I meant to say was please stop writing essays on Seoulbeats.

stephanielikesyou

i’m not exactly sure what you mean by NB but dismissing my point (“essay” or otherwise) is rather rude when you yourself started the discussion. you brought up a complex issue and questioned complex social issues; imo, that deserved a decent-sized answer. sorry if it got a bit long but i wanted to back up my opinion with facts. i’m not sure what you hoped to accomplish by posting highly aggressive posts on a discussion board (“Name me a white/black/hispanic person that carried a movie on their on in Korea? Better yet, a television show? No how about a Kpop group? You fucking can’t.”) if not to start a discussion.

stephanielikesyou

there aren’t many korean movies with white/black/hispanic stars because 1) korea doesn’t really have any big stars like that and 2) why would a foreign star come to korea to make that kind of movie? conversely, a korean star has a lot to gain from starring in a hollywood movie, even if it’s one where he has to play a japanese ninja. while there may be non-asians who want to be kpop stars and star in korean dramas/movies/whatever, it isn’t quite the same. for instance, for a white or black american to cry racism when they’re rejected at an SMTOWN audition is different than a korean-american crying racism when being rejected from a hollywood audition, even though ethnicity may have had a role in both cases.

Jo

South Korea is not America though. It’s wrong of you to superimpose your view of what is “right” or what they should be doing on an entirely different culture. Or expecting them to include minority groups that do not have a significant impact on the population in their country. South Korea is almost entirely made up of Koreans. America is extremely diverse compared to that. You can’t and shouldn’t adhere them to the same standard.

T.R.

LOLOL ok

Obozo

Exactly! It doesn’t sell!

I’m Asian-American, and I think Asians look goofy on the American idiot box.

Obozo

You’re a typical far-left hippie bozo.

T.R.

Oh look everybody….someone who needs attention! Someone who is yearning for some back and forth conversation by saying something retarded! Give it a hand! **clap clap**

destined2bebossy

I wish her the best of luck.
Chocolat has talked about how they feel isolated and that some people won’t talk to them because they fear they won’t be able to relate, and they are half Korean.
I don’t really see her being white as a good thing for the group. I know about Asians viewing white people and all of these privileges they are given simply for being white but in the business realm (esp. idol business) this will definitely hurt more than help them. At least that’s my prediction.

KrisMyStar

well I hope they keep my boy groups East Asian because that’s the main reason I’m in kpop.

well I’m East Asian so yes, I do prefer East Asian guys. that’s not fetishizing. sometimes you just don’t find guys outside of your own race attractive. maybe that’s why racial intermarriage is still so low.

mikedo2007

So what would’ve happen if 1D had a member that is of East Asian decent (let’s say Zayn Malik was never in 1D and a person of Chinese or Southeast Asian decent is now in his place). Would you have like 1D if there was a Chinese or East Asian face in it.

KrisMyStar

idk…only if I actually like his face. and I like 1D actually cuz Niall is cute ^^

mikedo2007

I like to add there are 3 western singers in Japan that is doing well:

so are you going to complain about 3 western singers breaking into the Japanese market. Because how is having a white person in a K-pop group being any different from Japan having white singers in Japan’s market.

KrisMyStar

no I won’t complain because I don’t care about jpop.

T.R.

And why is that?

KrisMyStar

I personally don’t find guys of other ethnicities that attractive. maybe because I also like guys who share the same culture as me.

T.R.

Nothing wrong with that.

kpopfan6

Wait does she speak fluent Korean? Sometimes foreign Kpop idols get made fun of or looked down upon if their Korean isn’t good, so I hope she has that taken care of.

Anyway, I don’t think having a white member in The Gloss will pay off much because it’s basically just a gimmick. If the group’s debut is lousy or Olivia isn’t enough to keep people’s interest then having a white member in a kpop group won’t really accomplish anything. Actually, if Olivia doesn’t do well, companies might not even bother to consider debuting non-Asians because it no longer looks like it will lead to better profits.

Since so much could go wrong for her, I hope Olivia really knows what’s she’s getting into because idol life is very difficult and Kpop has proven to be a pretty shady industry.

Well, as a white K-pop fan I have never personally wanted to be a k-pop star, nor have I ever wanted to see white people in kpop. I love K-Pop because its asian, and I have loved Asian culture and languages since I was young. But in reading this article and the comments that follow I can‘t help but feel kinda hated as a white person. I would absolutely love to see more minorities in North American pop culture just as much as anyone. I‘ll never know what its like to grow up a minority, (though i did get a little taste of it while I lived in Japan for a year) so I have no right to pretend I understand, but I never asked to born white either. AM i not allowed to like Asian pop culture cause I’m not Asian?

AnMei Lee

What is “Asian culture”? Asia is a massive continent….

Guest

she probably means like japan.. cause ~asian culture~ is only anime and kpop.

Guest

lol

Tanya Joshi

Probably just East Asia, because that’s the only Asia everyone sees.

Emily D.

Unfortunately, that is true. I would like it so much better if it wasn’t :(

This might seem shallow, but I do prefer Kpop to remain Asian. I mean, that just seems to be WHY the ball rolls, you know. I am not against non-Asians being involved in the Asian entertainment world though, I just do not want it to be Kpop specifically. The ‘Pop’ for glossy, polished music we hear these days. I am not gonna hate on the Olivia girl though, she is probably just trying to achieve her dreams or whatever. And oh, the supposed racism for not including non-Asians into the Kpop realm doesn’t seem true either. It’s hypocritical, yes, but prolly just in the name of business.

Emily D.

I agree. I have the same opinion exactly as you! If a member of some group had been born and raised in Korea, and of a different race and/or ethnicity than Southeast Asian, I would probably be more lenient to that member, just because that person would most likely not be able to fly to their country their race/ethnicity is from and audition (or whatever they do) there.

T.R.

Disgusting.

PandaPanda

Why do you have a prejudice against Southeast Asian people, may I ask?

I really liked this article except for the turn it took towards the end. It seemed very anti-whites-in-kpop rather than anti-glorification-of-whites-in-kpop.

I do totally agree though, that it makes sense for companies to seek out Asians in particular as, like the author stated, it is really marketed for ASIA. “…there’s nothing wrong with wanting something, but it’s one thing to want to become a K-pop idol, and another to view it as an injustice when you can’t become a K-pop idol” is my favourite line in this article, but it seems nonsensical to me if the author is later going to say ” the fact that a white woman like Olivia chose to pursue K-pop idoldom when she could have pursued a career as a singer in France just as easily (unlike, say, Asians who are living in France) is irksome.” She wanted to be a kpop idol, the article mostly seems to be saying that that’s okay, yet near the end…Did something change? I get that the reasons behind the companies added a white member are most likely something to be criticised, but the author finds Olivia’s choice irksome. I understand why it may be irksome for white people to want to be kpop idols when they already have opportunities in the American/European entertainment industry, but this to me just mixed up the entire article, and I don’t think that white people wanting to be kpop stars SHOULD be found irritating- I just understand it. I personally would prefer if kpop stayed Asian, but if other races made it in: good for them. (As long as they are dedicated to performing and not just the idea of being a kpop idol.)
Also, I’d like to ask what if the people choosing not to debut in their own country were seeking to live in Korea? I mean, I want to move out of my country as soon as I am prepared to, so if hypothetically I wanted to be performer, I obviously wouldn’t want to be a performer in Australia. Olivia may not want to live in France, and that’s why she’s not promoting there. Obviously I don’t know if that’s the case, but I think that’s a perfectly non-irksome reason for wanted to be a kpop idol.

MRD_Smuffy

*hoping that didn’t sound like an attack; it wasn’t meant to be*

corynn

“I really liked this article except for the turn it took towards the end. It seemed very anti-whites-in-kpop rather than anti-glorification-of-whites-in-kpop.”

Thank you for pointing this out. I couldn’t quite put my finger on what was making me uncomfortable about the closing paragraphs of the this (really great) article, but your observation is exactly what I felt.

Tanya Joshi

I felt the EXACT same towards the end, too! I thought it was just talking about glorification of whites and stuff like that, and then all of the sudden I got really confused! Like, I get where she was coming from, completely, but then all of the sudden it seemed like she was becoming hateful (not in the full sense of the word, obviously). I do agree with many points of the article, and I agree with the fact that I’d rather K-pop stay Asian, but if other ethnicities get included than all the power to them. It just annoys me when they say INTERNATIONAL to improve their image and then basically do the opposite. It’s more like Inter-East-Asia than anything else.

hapacalgirl

I felt the exact same way. As a biracial child who grew up in the “ghetto”, race is something that doesn’t bother me or is something I give much thought ofbut I do agree that the glorification of whites does exist which is why although I don’t agree with article I respected her opinion. That was till I got to the end where rather than come off as an editorial opinion on an issue, it came off as a personal hate to whites entering kpop which is a very different thing altogether. Basically the last couple paragraphs read as though “whites have no right to enter kpop and I hate that they are there” which is a whole different topic.

Also I find it interesting that the first thing people talk about when talking about whites is “white privilege” which does exist however isn’t always the reason behind the drive to be “white” in many asian countries. For example in the Philippines, whiteness is associated with wealth (due in part to the influence of Spaniard colonization in the past) because the wealthy weren’t exposed to the environment as much and therefore lighter skin. Dark skin however is associated with working in the fields and lower class since sun exposure darkens the skin.

Tanya Joshi

Thank you for agreeing with me, haha. And I also was considering the last part of what you wrote (about seeing being white as a sign of wealth) as I wrote most of my comments.
As a side note, I find it weird that Westerners want to be tan (more like orange, if you ask me. I’M tan), South Asians, Middle Easterners, South American and any ethnicity who has tan skin usually want to be fair, and East Asians want to be EVEN MORE fair. I honestly just don’t see why skin colour means anything anymore, and to glorify one over the other in this day and age is another story.

I’d much rather see “Insert Country-Korean” people try to break into the K-pop sphere, as they have a right to participate in their country’s music. Can you think of any other music genre in the world where someone hops on an airplane just to become a star in another country? No, that sounds ridiculous, and yet this is exactly what Olivia’s agency wants her to do. It’s not like she’s an established singer branching out. She’s literally debuting in a country that has no real cultural significance to her. i.e. She’s a gimmick.

This doesn’t apply to the other East Asian countries, because there is some sense of shared heritage and cultural continuity. France and Korea could not be more different from each other.

hapacalgirl

“I’d much rather see “Insert Country-Korean” (includes immigrants) people try to break into the K-pop sphere, as they have a right to participate
in their country’s music.”

If you believe that only asians and part koreans have a right to join kpop then why is it a problem that asians can’t break the american music industry? Now don’t get me wrong, I wish America was more welcoming of Asian artists because there are some wonderfully talented asian artists out there that are 100x better than the crap that is being released these days but that statement comes a bit hypocritical don’t you think? Also a lot of artists from other countries and walks of life have immigrated to America to try to get a break in the American music industry, some succeed better than others and not everyone is successful because it is one of the hardest industries to break into even if you are an American and white or black (which lets be real, the American music industry is just as much African American as it is Caucasian, the acting industry not as much sadly) . Its a bit wrong to say that you prefer that only someone who is part korean or part of that culture should be the only people to break into the kpop sphere and yet criticize the American music industry or the American public for its inability to welcome asian artists into the American music scene. Also not all east asian countries have some sense of shared heritage and cultural continuity.

anonymous

Because America isn’t just white or any specific nationality – it’s a hotpot where music comes from different sources as opposed to K-Pop which has Korea in its title, and exists in a homogenous society.

First of all, I included immigrants (hence the parenthetic addition in my definition of X-Korean, just as people who are Chinese-American are not necessarily born in America. So that takes care of half of your grievances. As for the hypocritical part, that isn’t true, because I included people who immigrate– to be frank, Justin Bieber is an immigrant himself to America, but America is a immigrant country. Why should whites be over-represented when the real demographics look different? Why cant the Asians who live in America not show up in American Televisions, especially when they have assimilated the culture and speak proper English?

Korea on the other hand is extremely homogenous, and Olivia’s inclusion is clearly awkward. She introduces herself in French, and sings in English. How is anyone in a homogenous society like Korea supposed to identify with her if she makes little attempt to assimilate culturally? If she had been a resident of Korea, then she would be someone worthy of taking a part in the Korean Music Industry. She would fit in–she would deserve to participate in her countries music, regardless of her appearance (like Lee Michelle who speaks Korean and has lived in Korea).

km313

When I saw the title of the article, I was hoping that you wrote it, Patricia. This really hits all of the points. I was always skeptical about all of the international audition events because they seemed like insincere and almost deceiving to non-Korean fans, convincing them that they have an opportunity to participate beyond being consumers, and I think that goes ten-fold when we’re talking about POC.

So the idea that all of these castings, from the U.S. to Japan to Kazakhstan and wherever else have occurred and there’s been no proof that any diversity has come from them, how can these companies convince me that they’re universally accessible? Like others have said, Lee Michelle has been in limbo for a while now, yet Chocolat and The Gloss get to tout their mixed/non-Asian image as a marketing tactic simply because they have partially/fully white members. Can Olivia speak Korean? And more importantly, if she can’t, will she be legitimately criticized for it or will it be swallowed up by the embedded privilege of her skin color? It’s fine that she can sing, it’s fine that she’s talented, but when we’re talking about how, as you said, it perpetuates the glorification/entitlement of whiteness, the talent factor is completely irrelevant. If a POC were to be in a K-Pop group they would by proxy have to be ten times more talented to even be seen as a valuable asset. So, yes, this is surprising, but in the end it really isn’t. Would you expect any other ethnicity for a non-East Asian K-Pop idol?

This isn’t signaling global change, though I do wonder how it will be received both in and outside of Korea and if this will happen again with other groups. Honestly, I would feel uncomfortable saying that the K-Pop industry is something that every race is entitled to participate in, but the idea that this is the only other ethnicity that will be ~allowed~ to participate likely without large-scale opposition or prejudice is of course frustrating. It’s not one extreme: it’s the middle gray area, similar to how international fans matter when it’s time to talk about the growth of K-Pop but not when they try to go to music shows or participate in online fan clubs. Although I do certainly enjoy the music and talking about the industry, not much has been done to convince me that the industry wants anything more than just revenue (and borrowed culture when its convenient) from POC.

It’s a good chance that race is “BLABLABLABLA” to Olivia. Whites don’t have to deal with racial discrimination on a daily basis. So it’s a non issue for them

Even in Korea, in the back of her mind, she says to herself…..”I’m White and superior”

RC_RC

How do you know that she considers herself superior? 49% of the Americans consider their culture superior to other cultures but only 27% of the French consider their culture superior to other cultures. I know that many Anglo-Saxon people believe that the French are very arrogant but is that true? Do you by the way consider American culture to be superior to other cultures?

I think that Olivia wants to learn more about Korean culture and I applaud that. But she has to work really hard so she should focus on that work and not on identity issues and questions about race and the endless debates about race and identity. Those debates are important but she should focus on Korean culture, Korean language and her work as entertainer.

Why would I want non-Asians in kpop? If I was interested in watching white people I’d watch American stuff.

Brandon Francis

Source of the American Industries racist issue too. “If I was interested in watching white people I’d watch American stuff.” America has a lot more diversity then just white.

Lizzie

This was really well written and I totally agree.

Another problem I have with when western (particularly white) fans bemoan K-pop’s lack of equality is that a lot of the time it feels like a complaint about their own perceived ability to become a K-pop idol than about actual representation. A lot of the comments I saw about The Gloss were more along the lines of ‘Oh, I could be an idol!’ than about changing attitudes and representation.

Also I think if people really care about K-pop being a representation of its fanbase, shouldn’t we be talking how little South East Asians are represented in K-pop despite K-pop having a huge mainstream fanbase in a lot of South East Asian countries? Especially given the fact that more and more children are being born of South East Asian/Korean families in South Korea and facing real discrimination (look at how Little PSY has been treated for being half Vietnamese). The only South East Asian idol I can think of to have had real success is Nichkhun and he is 1. English-speaking and American and 2. At least partially of Chinese ethnicity.

All the points about K-pop being proof that East Asian people can succeed in entertainment are really important as well and I honestly see no problem with that whatsoever. America’s population is very ethnically diverse and yet it’s media usually does not provide very good representation but Korea is still a very homogeneous country so why shouldn’t its media reflect that? (Not that changes shouldn’t still be made in both)

I’m just going to wait and see where this is going. As long as they make good music then I’m fine with it. From both of their covers the whole group seems very musically talented and I look forward to seeing how they bring that style of singing and harmonizing -if they do- into their own music.

And yes, it shall also be interesting to see how Olivia does with Korean and the culture, and for the Korean-American one as well, if she doesn;t know Korean (she introduced herself in English so perhaps not). Interesting to see how the Korean media deals with any language shortcomings of the two. All in all, this shall be interesting indeed.

As a white European I don’t fee like I’ve any right to join into this conversation otherwise, so I shall simply sit back and see where the Gloss goes.

RC_RC

So, are there people in the house that want Olivia to fail?

shannie4888

I love this article. I think that you stated the issue perfectly. White K-pop fans always complain about being excluded, but they get to do everything that minorities get overlooked for, especially Asian minorities. It’s very sad and very painful, but they do seem to have a sense of entitlement. Whenever you try to address it with them, they get all bent out of shape…..but of course they would, because it’s not something that they can fully comprehend.

Patricia, I just want you to know that there is a K-pop group debuting with a Black girl. I don’t remember her name, but it should be interesting to watch. I’ll keep my eyes out for this group though. It should be interesting to see if they’ll become popular or fly under the radar like all newly debuted groups.

There’s so many things I want to say, but for some reason I can’t find the words to express myself right now. All I have to say is that I love this article. It’s very authentic, especially because you shared your personal anecdote with us.

Charisse Myers

that mindset, my friend, is what is known as “white privilege” & it frustrates me so much that this has somewhat drifted towards kpop as well…sigh. But i am interested to see how this new group does & I can’t wait until Michelle Lee debuts!

Brandon Francis

Sorry to tell you… but Lee Michelle isn’t debuting.

내가 제일 잘나가

Tbh, I am more shocked at how well their voices go well together even with the different accents, its nuts!

Lex Lexicon

I personally think the reason Koreans see Europeans as superior to other races is because of the media, in particular the North American and European media. Globalization has allowed for many American and European shows , music and concepts to be all over Asia. The media portrays white people as most desirable (understandable, since these countries are predominantly white), but the problem lies in how they portray people of colour. They’re either the gangsters, loud, drug addicts or ghetto (in the case of black people and Latinos to a lesser extent), or a person with a weird accent (in the case of Asians). This is very obvious mostly with the black race. A show that portrays them decently is usually an all black show by a black director, AND they are few and far in between. That side of them is not mainstream. When Asians watch this, guess what they’re going to think? I’m not saying it’s right for people to be ignorant, but can we really put all the blame on Asians who are like that? We have to look at where they got those ideas from. I’m sure Seungri thinking that a blakc man would shoot him didn’t come out of nowhere.

hapacalgirl

“It’s a class thing. If you’re white, you were rich and stayed inside” – THIS. When I have spoken to people previously regarding the love of whitening cream and needing to lighten one’s skin, this was the answer than I have received from many of my asian and non american friends. In many countries, not just asia, lighter skin is associated with higher class not so much because of the fact that “white people = high class” but rather that the belief that lightness of their skin was due to the fact they didn’t have to work in hard labor or in the fields. Historically (outside of America, whose class and race history if very different than that of outside of America) dark skin in many cultures was a sign that the person was of the labor class and worked in the fields thus ,lower class. Sadly this is still a long held belief in many asian entertainment industries.

Lavlavs

While it’s true that light skin is associated with higher class because of class differences, you can’t ignore the fact that imperialism exacerbated the problem. When areas were colonized, the thinking that light skin was better was further embedded in society’s minds. For example when Spaniards mixed with indigenous people in the Caribbean and South America, the mixed children were considered higher than the darker, pure indigenous people not just because of their lighter skin but for the fact that they were mixed with European blood. So I think that’s where the current thinking that white people= high class come from. I agree that light skin=better has been prevalent in many societies for hundreds of years, but colonization added another aspect to that with “white people = better” and that can’t be ignored in a discussion such as this.

Lex Lexicon

You have to realize that while some countries may have similar ideologies, the historical processes which led to them are very different. As a person who has studied Sociology, it is very important to view a specific society for what it is,and not to assume that similar situations in various societies arose from similar causes. In Korea, white skin isn’t about being more European, this kind of thinking had existed independently for the reasons I stated above. However, US imperialism has definitely affected the Korean standard of beauty, as well as the rest of the world and has definitely led to Koreans thinking that European is ideal because of what they see in magazines. I was actually looking at a Chinese fashion magazine (one of those worldwide mag brands), and most of the models featured were as white as you could get. I think I saw 1 or 2 Asians out of the 15-20 models. The rest were white. The media has definitely been a factor. But in terms of white skin, I’m just saying that that is an Asian thing.

Brandon Francis

YASSSSS!!!!! AMEN!!!!!! NAILED IT ON THE HEAD! That is the whole problem with this race issue in America that is going on. Never is there an African American/ Latino/ or anyone with darker skin being portrayed outside of the stereotypical roles in mainstream media, or in a positive light. (So frustrating)

Suzie D

This article made me notice the similarities between Bollywood and K-pop. Bollywood has a large foreign fan base as well. However, it sickens me to say that Bollywood really prizes “whiteness.” Many Bollywood actresses are half-Indian and half-European (Katrina Kaif, Diya Mirza, Lisa Ray, etc.) There’s also Yana Gupta, who’s Czechoslovakian, and is popular due to her pale skin. Also, in a lot of Bollywood songs, most (if not all) of the backup dancers are white. When I heard that Meiyang Chang, an ethnically Chinese individual who was born & raised in India, was going to star in a Bollywood movie, I became ecstatic! He had a lead role, too. The movie is called “Badmaash Company” (in case you’re curious). I’m not a huge fan of Bollywood movies, but I wanted to watch this one because I loooove Meiyang. I was only 20 minutes into the movie, and the other lead characters were already poking fun at Meiyang’s Chinese features. I stopped watching the movie because I couldn’t take it anymore. Unfortunately, the Korean entertainment industry is also guilty of doing this (I mean, what the hell is up with the name “kkamjong?” & I still remember what you did, Mr. Kikwang). Anyway, It’s sad how “whiteness” is prized in almost every culture, and other people who aren’t white are just ridiculed.

Suzie D

This article made me notice the similarities between Bollywood and K-pop. Bollywood has a large foreign fan base as well. However, it sickens me to say that Bollywood really prizes “whiteness.” Many Bollywood actresses are half-Indian and half-European (Katrina Kaif, Diya Mirza, Lisa Ray, etc.) There’s also Yana Gupta, who’s Czechoslovakian, and is popular due to her pale skin. Also, in a lot of Bollywood songs, most (if not all) of the backup dancers are white. When I heard that Meiyang Chang, an ethnically Chinese individual who was born & raised in India, was going to star in a Bollywood movie, I became ecstatic! He had a lead role, too. The movie is called “Badmaash Company” (in case you’re curious). I’m not a huge fan of Bollywood movies, but I wanted to watch this one because I loooove Meiyang. I was only 20 minutes into the movie, and the other lead characters were already poking fun at Meiyang’s Chinese features. I stopped watching the movie because I couldn’t take it anymore. Unfortunately, the Korean entertainment industry is also guilty of doing this (I mean, what the hell is up with the name “kkamjong?” & I still remember what you did, Mr. Kikwang). Anyway, It’s sad how “whiteness” is prized in almost every culture, and other people who aren’t white are just ridiculed.

Tanya Joshi

That point you made about the back-up dancer being basically white is SO true! Going to India I see a number of movie trailers, and God knows how many song numbers they manage to insert into trailers and the movies in general (I know that’s the point of Bollywood, but I’m not in to that because it gets a bit too much with a song and dance number every 10 minutes… ANYWAYS!). It’s so weird to see them just somehow managing to show 10 different countries within one musical number, and 3/4 of the backup dancers are Caucasian or have white skin. It’s like they’re trying to up their “cool factor” by doing this. I know this sounds like I’m being exclusive, but it’s getting to a certain magnitude that it’s just becoming blatantly obvious.
Just so everyone knows, I live in Canada and don’t really have many Indian friends so it’s not like I’m hating on Western culture…

Suzie D

Hi Tanya,

That’s exactly why I’m not into Bollywood movies as well! There’s like a 10-minute song after every 5 minutes, and the songs have nothing to do with the movie most of the time! Anyway, so one movie will have like 20 songs, and those songs will be filmed in Germany, Italy, France, New Zealand, etc., and they’ll only used white backup dancers to show how “international” they are.

Tanya Joshi

It’s just so unrealistic to be in 10 different countries within 5 minutes, just, no… There needs to me SOMEthing that makes sense in these movies for me to tolerate it.
My dad tells me that there are actually good Bollywood movies that aren’t like the typical ones you see, I just wish that they were more popular. Because all anyone in another country has to go off of about Indian culture is the typical Bollywood movie and Slumdog Millionaire -.-

Suzie D

LOLOL, your dad is right!!! I actually saw an independent Indian movie on Netflix! It didn’t have any songs in it, and the story line was really good! The ratings were “low” because it wasn’t a typical Bollywood movie :/. Unfortunately, my friends are only into super typical ones that we can’t stand! I have yet to watch Slumdog Millionaire, hahaha.

Tanya Joshi

What movie was that? I watched one that randomly appeared on TV that was about politics and random killing but it was actually pretty good. No songs in it, either.
And yeah, don’t really need to watch Slumdog Millionaire. I fell asleep watching it and cannot remember the plot for the life of me.

rochelle.bernard96

Um, I know I’m responding kinda late, but don’t just equate white skin to white people. I, for example like pale skin but I don’t want to be white, I think their ugly.

jaefuma

Pretty much a repeat of everyone else, but I completely agree.

As a minority, white people can really do whatever they want. They can sing, dance, act, do whatever and be seen as just that. A singer, not an “asian singer,” a dancer, not a “black dancer.” They’re the “standard” of beauty, even for other races.

I feel bad, but seeing Olivia sitting there makes me feel extremely irritated. How many asian americans can’t even get through the door of a western agency? How many only have the hope of being discovered by a agency like SM? And Olivia gets to be there? When she could sing in her country or even america with ease? She thin, pretty, and white, and if she came to america, “exotic” because she’s french. I know it’s not her fault, but it feels extremely unfair. White people can do anything they want, and now they invade k-pop too? It’s as if minorities can’t have anything of their own for long.

I feel terrible for feeling this way, as I’m sure she worked hard, but just seeing her there makes me upset…

(( No, I don’t want to be a singer, it’s just…ugh. I can’t even explain it ))

PandaPanda

I completely agree with you. As much as I feel Olivia shouldn’t be there, I think she worked hard to where she is now. I just hope that she knows what she is signing up for.

Guest

Ain’t nobody got time to read all that; what is this, your term paper.

*eye roll*

ps. claiming exclusion of Asians, while in essence advocating it in Kpop, is the height of hypocrisy.

disqus_a1jH3xoSRc

The main thing I got from your article is that white singers should leave kpop alone because they can debut anywhere they want because white people have it all. That’s a fair point in the “let Asians keep Asian pop” view. I’m not disputing that. However, if someone watches Hollywood movies then they might want to be in them, regardless of who they are and where they come from. Similarly if someone is a fan of a kpop group then they might want to be in one, regardless of who they are or where they come from. Maybe including a Chinese member was step one, then a white member step two, until a non-Asian and non-white member will join. I disagree with you that a white member will only benefit white people…maybe in the short term, but not necessarily in the long view. That being said, it all goes out the window if you think Asian pop is only for Asian singers (as it has been, and successfully). However, you can’t stop people dreaming dreams of being a kpop idol no matter what they look like, just like you dreamed dreams while living not in an Asian country but in an oppressive, stereotype-perpetuating, Eurocentric country. (Can someone tell me which country *isn’t* oppressive or stereotype-perpetuating? I want to live there. :/)

Gerson Rocha

Heck, I live in Brazil, the so-called ‘multiracial country’ and everything we see on TV and media as a whole is people of European descent. We only have three famous nikkei in media, and they’re mixed sansei who couldn’t care less about Japan. And we have about 10 relevant black people. Thank God there are people like Adriana Lima and Marlon Teixeira who’ve become famous models and are representing mixed Pardos out there =]

Doom Starks

You could say the same thing about the U.S. if you’re looking for equality in the music scene you’ll be hard pressed to find any country that is going to market an honest to goodness foreigner as anything more than a novelty. Do you not remember the American Idol Heejun debacle, not nearly as bad as William Hung but he had a decent voice but was kept around due to his bluntness and dubious grasp of the English language. You may have some underground Asian artists in the states like Clara C. TokiMonsta but they are not mainstream by any means. The closest would be Far East Movement whose mainstream success can be attributed entirely to their “G6” song. You aren’t going to put asses in the seats with an Asian member unless it’s a girl who’s rocking a schoolgirl outfit. I don’t want to discuss White Privilege but you do know the pittance K-poppers make it’s not that much of a win for them. Of course a foreigner is a way to make connections or make the group more accessible it’s good if the girl actually has talent but the notion of a token minority has been going on in other countries besides Korea deal with it and make the best of it. if the girl has a good set of pipes then sing and use the opportunity to get noticed.

Tony

I want this group to do well just because Grace seems hella awesome and has a fanatstic voice.

Tieria

Very well written article!!! I agree with a lot of things you’ve said especially about the assumption that kpop companies need to accept non-Asians in order to become a progressive thinking country or promoting equal opportunities to all. Don’t get me wrong, non-Asians (like myself) that are VERY serious about becoming kpop stars should try out. But people with these goals have to remember it’s not going to be easy and companies have to invest their money on individuals that they know will make them money (which is usually Koreans or other East-Asians). These companies are not trying to be racist (or at least not entirely) but in show business your looks and even your ethnicity are important. It’s like that in some shape or form all over the world. Non-Asians that are serious about becoming kpop stars need to be serious, talented (of course) AND smart about it or otherwise they will not make it at all OR they will get picked by a company but only to be used as some “token” member that’s not taken seriously or treated as a joke.

With that being said, I think it’s fine for Olivia or any other non-Asian to be in a kpop group…I only hope that the said non-Asian member is actually serious about being a kpop star and not just doing it to bring attention to themselves. I knew of a few non-Asians that tried to debut in a jpop girl group in the past but it didn’t work out b/c they AND their management wasn’t really serious. So I just hope this group works out for the best and doesn’t turn into something else.

Kai Wen Kim

When i went to S.M. Global Audition this year, the judge kept the non-Asians dancers behind, even though there was an Asian kid who practically took over the show, dancing ten times better any of them. I guess Gloss’ debut kinda explains the judge’s motives.

Guest

You know what? Nobody has a problem with a white man being in Busker Busker. But a white woman debuts and suddenly it’s the end of the world. Why the disparity? Why is it okay for men but not women?

Obozo

Because women are inferior.

Gaya_SB

We’ve written about Chad Future on the site, but more than gender I think the most notable difference between the two as K-pop idols is that Chad is more or less striking out on his own, while Olivia has the visible backing of a label with agency in Korea, and is also debuting as part of a group which includes Korean members. If it was a white guy debuting as part of a new K-pop boy, this article would still have been written.

I believe the focus on K-pop is why Brad’s race has not been considered, as Busker Busker is regarded to be more K-indie. But it would be really interesting to look at the presence of non-Koreans in K-indie; you made a good point about Brad, thank you for bringing that up!

what white man? He probably looks just like a Korean who had plastic surgery.

carielle

busker busker isnt technically kpop… and hes just the drummer so…

Obozo

Let’s be honest, non-Asians would look silly in Asian pop.

Asian pop should be for Asians ONLY.

K-pop/Korea doesn’t need affirmative action.

UK

south koreans love to blame whitey for their problems…but they push the same oppression onto darker skinned south east asians….I cannot believe the pure racism and disgusting treatment I’ve seen korean treat their nannies and such from the phillipines, it’s repulsive. AND they CONSTANTLY say the the plastic surgery is not to be more western..just to be a more beautiful form of korean. And don’t even get me started on the whitening creams…you really think americans try to be more white? they love a tan…
start with yourselves. the problem lies there, in your own society, in your own community for not taking pride in yourselves. You’re obviously gorgeous, smart, seoul is amazing…promote koreanism…not “more westernized koreans”
you can’t say no foreigners in k-pop you’re just exasperating racism…stretching it further. how about no koreans in rap? why not? well…u didn’t create it so stay out! (sarcasm)

taking a foreigner out of the group will not eliminate the problems. that’s called segregation…so ridiculous.

pippi

as a european female, whos favourite singers are the japanese mika nakashima and the ukranian mika newton,i dont feel more connected to newton because of her whiteness or similiar facial features to me,is even music about racs now?

pippi

also i see some missconceptions about middle easterns ive lived in the middle east and i know most people think mid eastern people are brown,but thats opposite from true many are way whiter looking than me and many were indeed darker as well.so please stop using the term mid eastern people for brown people as looks over there are such a diversity from blonde to red to black, also bout people in india being looked down upon becus of their skin colour,but same goes in the west cus we all need to tan and look like carrots ye and pale is bad/desease…y no complains about that as well? i dont think anyone should tan or bleach their skin cause the damage is irreversible and its fake.

rochelle.bernard96

I know about middle easterners looking white. i was surprised when I started watching foreign films, but yeah.

rochelle.bernard96

Wow, I agree with this article. International fans are pushing for mixed members, but I like Kpop specifically because it’s foreign, you know? I like things the way they are. If there were all kinds of people put in Kpop groups, I would probably be less interested. Because if I wanted to, I could look in the mirror or outside my window if I want to rather than sit and moan about something ridiculous.

So basically you listen to Kpop based on the race of the people instead of the quality of the music? What the hell does the singer’s race have to do with the music?

rochelle.bernard96

……Just looking at Asians would wear off within 20 minutes.I didn’t say that I didn’t like the music, you did, which is ridiculous because that’s what I like, more that K-dramas or K-movies. And why do you feel the need to see yourself in a Kpop group? I think things are fine the way they are, I have no complaints.

sheisgone

Well there are hardly any asians in the western music market so… idg why ppl are mad over kpop bco it doesnt have any “dark-skin” ppl

SpecialKpop

1. The entire point of this article has gone over your head…This article is about how it affects Asians, and how this move offends Asian-Americans in particular.
2. There are “dark skin” people in Kpop – singers who are half-Black as well as choreographers and producers

Patricia, I think you have brought very pertinent points to this issue. A lot of us would jump to say “Kpop is racist” but definitely after reading your article I can sympathize with why Kpop should remain an Asian-only thing no matter what. HOWEVER the only problem is, keeping it exclusively for Asians will accelerate the inevitable downfall of Hallyu and then Kpop itself.

A homogeneous music industry cannot gain worldwide influence and REAL respect in a heterogeneous world!! I think the solution is for young Asian people to see themselves as citizens of the world instead of as “Asians” and stop trying to separate themselves from everyone else. That will solve their inner conflict nicely. The mentality “I’m treated so badly because I’m Asian” has to go~

Chelsey

Wait a minute, wait a minute, hold the phone! I just have one question….can this girl speak Korean???

Gaya_SB

She knows some phrases:

Michayla

I believe that if the Korean Industry is trying to achieve a “We are the world” image then they need to get people represent the world. We all know the Caucasians hold the major of the ethic groups in our society, but to show that you care about all of the kpop fans and you want to give them a kpop idol to look up too, you have to include the minorities of this world. It isn’t fair for the black, latinos or other ethnic groups to feel sort of outcasted among all the other idols because there isn’t an idol who we can say looks like us, or is from the same place as us on a kpop stage singing and dancing there heart out. You can take this from a black girl, when I listen to my kpop too loud people talk about me behind my back thinking I don’t know, because I guess they think it’s stupid to listen to or its just plain weird, or even if I tell someone oh I’m listening too Korean pop music most of the time they’ll ask oh are there black people in it, and at first u would look at them strange because it’s in Korea so no there are no black people, but then I think about it and I see where they are coming from because at the end of the day when we listen to music all we ever want to do us connect with it. Whether it happens by just listening to the songs or you make a visual connection, and if you are making a visual connection you would want someone who represents you singing the music that you enjoy. I just hope that by letting a white person join a kpop group opens the door for more non asains to be welcomed on to the kpop scene.

Hannah

I’m white and to be completely and 100% brutally honest, I would prefer it if non-Asians did not debut in idol groups. I feel the fact that k-pop idols are asian is what makes it stand out from the western artists and what makes k-pop, well, k-pop. If non-asians start debuting in k-pop groups there’s nothing to really differentiate it. Except for the fact they’ll be singing in Korean and that’s not quite enough in my opinion. I’ll just see the group the same way I would see One Direction or some other little western pop band. I also feel that this mentality they seem to have that dark skin is bad and white skin is good and Caucasian features are more desirable has to stop. It’s ridiculous.

Conde Gyu

What makes k-pop is the music. ;)

Conde Gyu

Guys! You’re talking like there are 100 whites on kpop! It’s just one girl! In 100 years maybe there will exist only one too! You’re making such a drama! There are asians making such a fame on USA (Ryan Higa is an example), that made the world worst? Eminem is one of the most famous rappers ou there, that made the world worst?

There are a lot of asians looking for future in America or even Europe, why can’t the people from America or Europe do the same and try to reach their dreams in Asia? You already thought that maybe Olivia hates the american/french music industry? Maybe she doesn’t like how it does work there. Maybe she loves the way how Korea is

This comment can be seen as offensive to anybody, but I feel I’m entitled to my own opinion and hope that I can be free of judgement in this community.

I am Russian through and through. I have blonde hair, blue-grey eyes, a slender body, a face that is considered physically attractive by the majority of society, and fair skin. I understand that none of the comments here are meant to be cruel or meant to do any harm, but I couldn’t help getting slightly angered anyway. It’s funny. I’m trying as hard as I can to put my words nicely so as to offend no one, but I know I’ll probably get backlash and offend somebody anyway. In light of that fact, I will get to the point.

Yes, the majority of society favors lighter skin and nothing can be done about that. This opinion is unlikely to change in the next decade, and probably, long after that. Here is where I’ll probably offend the most individuals. Complaining about it won’t change a thing. Most Korean entertainment companies already don’t accept many non-Koreans and barely any non-Asians. So why get upset when Olivia makes it? She’s talented and I’m sure she spent many years learning Korean even if her accent is far from perfect. If the western music market is unwilling to accept Asians, then why can’t the Asian music market step up, be the better “person”, and accept non-Asians? Yes, it would be great if it was more willing to accept POC as well, but the reality is that it’s extremely unlikely to happen. I guess I’m trying to say that I’m offended that people are unhappy with Olivia’s debut because they believe it to be unfair and, in a way, it is. I even sound mean to myself when I say this, but since the world is like this, it’s pointless to fight it.

I sincerely apologize to anyone who I may have offended, but I felt the need to express my own opinion.

Brandon Francis

I personally I’m not upset at her for debuting. What I’m upset about is the “white privilege” issue.

Idoll Lila

What are Asians suppose to do in western countries that you feel like we are dictated to do? I do not feel that way at all as an Asian-American and I sing in a lot of places. I even get to travel around the U.S. because I am a singer. I do understand how it is kind if a sacred place for just Asians in the kpop industry but I don’t feel like that I can’t sing because I live in America…..

milli

This is disgusting. I’m an American And I disagree with a white girl in a K-Pop group.

First of all, K-pop is KOREAN POP. Look, I myself daydream about being in a k-pop group but seriously, Why would you listen to a non-korean singing in Korean? It’s not her culture or anything, she’s french, She should go be a singer in France and I know that she must love k-pop so much but a non-korean in a k-pop group?

There’s a reason why it’s called k-pop.
When you add a French chick, it changes the whole meaning of K-POP

Would you want a foreginer singing on your radios? No. Many people complained when PSY’s song was on the radio.

Tbh, they don’t even seem like an idol group. They seem more like Karmin and Cimorelli

mikedo2007

uh how is having a white girl in a K-pop group any different from having a non-Korean Asian in a K-pop group like 2PM had Nickchun (who is Thai-Chinese American), Fei & Jia (who are Chinese) of Miss A, Victoria and Amber (who are Chinese) of F(X), Tasha and Ferlyn (who are of Singaporean decent) of Skarf, Henry Lau of Super Junior. See that’s racism you just did there. Hating on white girl but allowed non-Korean Asian to be in a K-pop group.

milli

It’s not racism. Why don’t I have a problem with he people you listed? Because they’re all Asian. But this girls is NOT Asian. Would Koreans even accept this? The chances are low. She must have a voice like Taeyeon or Ailee to get into a big company like SM, YG or JYP.

anon325

Kpop is a part of Korean modern culture, it would be difficult for a non-Korean to emulate that Korean-ness and Korean style/mannerisms. I think it’s okay for other Asians to audition as there are other asians in some kpop groups but whites already have many places to express themselves and be creative, make their mark etc. It would be nice for Asians to have a space that is not white colonized.

NoctLightCloud

exactly!!

Elena

This is a video of a South-East Asian singer from France… I attached these videos just to show that while maybe in the American market Asian people are not given as much of a chance; in Europe (At least the countries I am personally familiar with) the % of Asian idols is quite high in comparison to the amount of Asian people living in these Countries.
I am of Greek decent and in the Greek entertainment industry there are many singers/celebrities of different cultures/races. So, I guess I am very used to the integration of white people and others being brought into my cultures media. And, before anyone asks there is a distinction between being white and being Caucasian. Please google it if you are confused, I could go on for days.

This is a very catchy song by a duo called trackshittaz from Austria and one of the members is of Asian decent as well.

I hope this was interesting to some of you :) <3 <3

ps. I just chose these two videos because I personally like the songs. There are hundreds of other examples that can be found!

Candy

As a white K-Pop fan, I didn’t realize they were spotlighted so much when dealing with “foreign” fans. There are K-Pop fans everywhere, and most of the time (where I live) they are made up of Asian-Americans. No white person I know is into K-Pop unless we’re talking about PSY and, really, that was unexpected. I’m not against the idea of a white person being a K-Pop idol if she’s in it for her talent and not just her skin color. I looked up this group “The Gloss” and it’s not really an actual K-Pop group, it would seem. They just do acapella of U.S. “hits.” When I listen to K-POP, I do it to listen to K-POP, not Justin Timberlake, Black Eyed Peas, or Akon (ala Wondergirls). My main point is that I don’t mind if K-POP companies decide to sign non-Asian foreigners as long as they’re treated like non-Korean foreigners. By that I mean they should learn Korean and be proficient at it while having to prove the same talent and stamina as everyone else in the business

KH

So much analysis about ethics — but you have to understand capitalism. The music company behind them just wants to make a profit. That is the only ethic capitalist companies understand — profit.

I am interested to see how this will turn out. It was a bold decision on the company’s part, and it will be novel.

KH

So much analysis about ethics — but you have to understand capitalism. The music company behind them just wants to make a profit. That is the only ethic capitalist companies understand — profit.

I am interested to see how this will turn out. It was a bold decision on the company’s part, and it will be novel.

JennyLee

So I have several thoughts to this article, because there are parts where I agree with it and others I just don’t.

First off, I think any Korean-French could just as well pursue a singing career in France as he/she could in Korea, and might even have better chances at succeeding than Olivia in Korea. But lets be honest, the french music industry in France is kind of limited since the music is very tailored to France or a french speaking audience.

Secondly, I thing as k-pop is expanding it is natural that other races also start being included, although it isn’t necessary. It may start with a white girl but I’m pretty sure that as Korea will globalize further also individuals of other ethnicity will be joining. And expecting them to not do so would be just like expecting the american industry to stop letting African, Asian and European people into the music industry, because after all the only true Americans are the natives.

Thirdly, so what if they highlight her in the beginning? Like you said the first idols who weren’t Korean also got highlighted for that and now everyone has gotten over it.It will be just the same with her.

And yes it definitely would be wrong to praise her for her whiteness and whatnot. But also in Europe there was a time when it was more fashionable to be white than tan because it meant that you didn’t have to work, which traditionally is the same reason it is cool to be whiter than the rest of the population in most Asian countries.

And I agree with the stupid casting calls only open for white women. Stupid. I think Korea still has a lot of racism: sexualization of white people (how do you write that?), and them looking down on Filipinos and other darker skinned Asians, seeing any other race in one way or another as inferior or as a sensation like a lion at a Zoo. But I somehow think that will also subside as the country opens up little by little.

TsukasaDi

I just think Asian or not, they should be allowed to sing in the kpop genre, it’s almost like saying black can’t sing in England, however anyone is entitled to a opinion…?

mikedo2007

That’s true I don’t see having a white person in K-pop group would be any different from having a South Asian in British group (ie: Zayn Malik of 1D, who is of Pakistani decent and Siva Kaneswaran of The Wanted, who is of Tamil decent).

kim

Whoa a real interesting insight.
Damn, I agree with you. White is often deemed highly, with their prominent features, colour and how the industry shaped up it’s easy to see their value. Sigh, I hope other companies dont follow. Equality is on a invisible thread, just hanging there. It’s impossible to alter it, but there has to be some pride of delivering what others thought we cant. The spur of asians and their abilities is a reflection of what we are capable of. It’s a tough issue to tackle, and many considerations need to be made. It’s kinda like if I want to see asians I go asian industry, english, the english industry. Mixing it all up would be impossible and reducing the amount of attention the certain race would get.

XeonForge

I am a little late to the party here but here are my two cents worth. While I do agree with this to a large extent. One also has to put the shoe on the other foot and realize. Many K-Pop idols are also trying to do the exactly same thing as well. If that wasn’t the case you wouldn’t have countless attempts be groups not to mention idols trying to break into the mainstream music industry. A monumental task for anyone let alone any Asian artist. Which so far has been quit limited with maybe the exception of PSY to a degree or better yet Far East Movement. It’s not that there isn’t talent out there as the Asian community is swimming in it. It’s that stereotypes & misconceptions seem to be what is keeping the music industry really from evolving into a truly global race-less enterprise. One which doesn’t involve Hollywood or the mainstream press brainwashing the populous. As a non Asian K-Pop fan I don’t think I need to have a degree in Asian economics to appreciate all of what K-Pop has to offer. I have been a fan for over 10 years. Not to mention a strong advocate for Asians in leading roles within the entertainment industry.

On the same token however K-Pop’s success over the long term will very much depend on it’s ability to sell itself to an international audience. Not just Asian fans which in many cases it already has as would be just preaching the the choir. Having some Non Korean Idols will only help to gain interest globally outside the usual demographics. You look at artists like Shakira a good example of someone who crossed the racial and cultural divide and is now hugely successful because of it. Not just in here native country of Colombia but the world over. Korean Entertainment companies seem to not have figured out yet. That for K-Pop to be truly international as it it appears they are pushing for. That it is absolutely in the industry’s best interests to develop non Korean Idols as well. So fans in France, South America, US or wherever else feel a closer connection to the group. If Olivia makes the cut and has the talent I say who cares. Here being white should have no effect to her abilities to represent the group as any normal idol would otherwise, just saying.

S J

This is brilliant. A+++. Get it published. Lolz. But moving on to the points covered. My initial reaction is so.. mixed and confused. I agree, but at the same time my first notion is: Why do we even have to look at color? And that is the ideal situation. But as you mention and really drive home, we have to look at color because THAT is WHAT the entire marketing strategy, as far as publicity in its infant stages, is relying upon, THAT is WHAT represents the deep cultural notion that white > not fair skin, etc. And it really pains me that Koreans, or Indians, or whoever in so many different cultures, prize skin color to the point that it permeates value/worth to the extent that the COLOR of someone has the power to make headlines and heads turn. I guess what I am trying to say is, that until people truly are colorblind, we cannot ignore color, because that is what it is: ignoring, letting the issue slide, walking around it hoping it won’t pop up. What really bothers me IS this issue of To be or not to be kind of thing- to be aight with non-E. Asians in kpop or not. But again, this comes down to what you mentioned- a) it’s doing JUST FINE thank you very much as it is, AS A REP. of EAST ASIAN PEOPLE FOR EAST ASIAN PEOPLE, and b) it further emboldens the perception that people hate themselves in light of the ‘forever superior white’. And I’m not trying to be insensitive or politically incorrect, but it is what it is- that the kpop industry represents and is essentially accepting of the cultural idea that white (color) is great. What happened to loving yourself- in any culture/ethnicity. India has the same issue with Bollywood more and more so. Why is it so great if a white person that can’t act is somehow strung into a movie to start a career by some connection? And it’s complicated because that’s not to say that someone who truly has a passion for that should not or cannot succeed in that endeavor. But it’s not so much about the employee, if you will, it’s about the employer- the industry (industries). It’s just a cycle of privilege and oppression, created by image without words, of what is socially ‘better’. So I guess, until kpop introduces a range of ethnicities, and hopefully until this issue is looked at in the face as your essay so convincingly conveys that it needs to be, and it does, cuz it IS an issue, ain’t nobody that can deny it when you look at it, or until kpop itself realizes that, ‘yo, we’re a product of koreans for koreans by koreans and we should love ourselves such that we don’t hire people for any reason, like to pander to certain demographic or to be ‘in’ because ‘oh look its a white person! somehow that makes us cool’, other than true appreciation for someone’s talent/potential/passion/or whatever’, it’s just gonna be a feeling of uneasiness- like hey something feels unjustified here… why does it feel like that.

S J

This is brilliant. A+++. Get it published. Lolz. But moving on to the points covered. My initial reaction is so.. mixed and confused. I agree, but at the same time my first notion is: Why do we even have to look at color? And that is the ideal situation. But as you mention and really drive home, we have to look at color because THAT is WHAT the entire marketing strategy, as far as publicity in its infant stages, is relying upon, THAT is WHAT represents the deep cultural notion that white > not fair skin, etc. And it really pains me that Koreans, or Indians, or whoever in so many different cultures, prize skin color to the point that it permeates value/worth to the extent that the COLOR of someone has the power to make headlines and heads turn. I guess what I am trying to say is, that until people truly are colorblind, we cannot ignore color, because that is what it is: ignoring, letting the issue slide, walking around it hoping it won’t pop up. What really bothers me IS this issue of To be or not to be kind of thing- to be aight with non-E. Asians in kpop or not. But again, this comes down to what you mentioned- a) it’s doing JUST FINE thank you very much as it is, AS A REP. of EAST ASIAN PEOPLE FOR EAST ASIAN PEOPLE, and b) it further emboldens the perception that people hate themselves in light of the ‘forever superior white’. And I’m not trying to be insensitive or politically incorrect, but it is what it is- that the kpop industry represents and is essentially accepting of the cultural idea that white (color) is great. What happened to loving yourself- in any culture/ethnicity. India has the same issue with Bollywood more and more so. Why is it so great if a white person that can’t act is somehow strung into a movie to start a career by some connection? And it’s complicated because that’s not to say that someone who truly has a passion for that should not or cannot succeed in that endeavor. But it’s not so much about the employee, if you will, it’s about the employer- the industry (industries). It’s just a cycle of privilege and oppression, created by image without words, of what is socially ‘better’. So I guess, until kpop introduces a range of ethnicities, and hopefully until this issue is looked at in the face as your essay so convincingly conveys that it needs to be, and it does, cuz it IS an issue, ain’t nobody that can deny it when you look at it, or until kpop itself realizes that, ‘yo, we’re a product of koreans for koreans by koreans and we should love ourselves such that we don’t hire people for any reason, like ‘hey we’re cool now cuz there’s ‘this’ kind of person or ‘that’ kind of person’, other than true appreciation for someone’s talent/potential/passion/or whatever’, it’s just gonna be a feeling of uneasiness- like hey something feels unjustified here… why does it feel like that. And the other question is: Where is the line? Where is the line of what is fair in terms of staying all (east) asian or ‘letting others in’, and being OKAY with letting others in? Because its a heritage issue, a native-connection issue, a cultural community issue. When is it okay to bring in someone from somewhere else for a gig in a certain country? I guess it’s like, FOR EXample, in US, an Asian should be able to excel in entertainment industry, for obvious reasons (they are Americans, regardless of heritage, esp. cuz almost all were immigrants at some point), but in Korea, for instance, should a European or non-East Asian have that same access? It’s a question of should and is it fair. Is it right. What are the true reasons for kpop opening up. Is it purely for the cool factor? To be ‘approved’ by a certain demographic? Seriously?

S J

Also, that is what is NATURAL to kpop, this is why it is how it is, and fans love that it is what it is. Is it unnatural to shape it in this way?

I do see this as an amazing step, as someone who has been auditioning for years for companies in korea for a few years now. And also being non-asian. I can see why people would be upset. Kpop today will not be the same as in the next year. Change can scare people. But many people need to realize, kpop is becoming more international phenomenon every day. Gaining more fans everyday from all around the world. So opening for non-asians to have a chance to make it in kpop in my eyes Will open chances for more fans to flow in. Another thing that bothers me in why we have to categorize western-fans or non-asian fans with regular fans. Fan is a fan no matter where they come from or what their ethnicity is.

mikedo2007

Also I like to point out, that in Japan there are 3 western singers that are doing well there

how is this any different from Olivia, a white girl in a Korean group:

thunderstormz1

Okay, first off I am not racist. I have now been rewriting this for two hours. My conclusion is, it’s not about the skin colour, it’s keeping it asian, I mean I understand that k-pop expanded to china and japan but I mean even the marketing strategy to the rest of the world is the asian charm wether it be the language the culture or the looks. For example lee michelle who was in k-pop star I think should definately make a debut soon because no matter how you look at it she’s amazing and is part asian. It’s just that taking it this direction makes it seem to me that in five years there’ll be five british girls debuting as a k-pop group..I mean I was first attracted I admit to k-pop really superficially, I watched this drama and I thought that the lead was ridiculously good looking so I looked him up and it turned out he had a band and he was really good at singing but most of all I enjoyed the sound and feeling of the language, at the way the emotions were portrayed in the songs..for me it was the first time being moved to tears by a song, let alone one whose lyrics I couldn’t even understand, it made me want to learn more about the language and korea itself…once I was introduced though I wasn’t so superficial (honestly, on first impressions EVERYONE is superficial) for example, when I first saw infinite’s dongwoo I didn’t think he was very attractive but now he’s my favourite because he’s so charismatic on stage and so goofy and cute off stage…Anyways, after my failed attempt at explaining my reasons why I find this so wrong, I actually congratulate Olivia for making her dreams come true, no matter how I may feel about it. I really hope noone takes me for a hater, I’m just trying to explain my opinion. DAMMIT I have a headache for staring at the screen for so long trying to think how to explain myself.

Saito Takumi

All i am saying is that its not kpop if there is a non asian person.

Saito Takumi

She doesn’t even know Korean. If she is going to be singing in English, then Kpop is a goner

Cy

I just want to give you a handclap of praise, my dear. This is a lucid, articulate, and intelligent article speaking about something that no one ever wants to seem to talk about, or would rather just brush aside as “the way things are.” I suppose I don’t have anything productive to add. I just want to say thank you for writing this with such passion and intelligence.

NoctLightCloud

I love Kpop because I like Asians. I’ll not even hide that fact. I think many “western” fans don’t like Kpop/Jpop/Cpop primarly because of the good music, BUT because it’s Asian. If Kpop started to hire western people, than that would make it none different from the musicians here in Europe. Now, isn’t it clear that Kpop as a music industry should then stick to the recipee that made it popular and famous in the first place? I think it is clear and logic. PSY wouldnt have gotten popular if he wasnt Asian.
Seems like SB-writers aren’t much of the business-thinkers, right? ;-P ;-)

PS Elena

yes he would had gotten popular

lecrazyblob

Your artical is full of contradictions. I can not even comment on it properly as it is all over the place and your view is not clear at all.

leoGeo

They have a white girl but do not acknoledge a Asian who is mixed with black michelle lee? Sorry but having a white girl in your group gets you No Points with foreign fans being we know how racist Asia is . We already know hey how about suprise us with something we dont see comming. I just feel bad for the little girls who already like caucasion features but will now worship it. Love yourself and I am half white and saying this!

HaruHaru

Okay, for real? I understand where you are coming from about feeling “not so popular” in the American culture; however, think about our feelings too. You feel so bad that America doesn’t really take Asians in the “fame” group; so you, of all people, should understand how we feel about the K-Pop society only looking as Asians. You think we don’t also feel discriminated against? We can’t choose our race or where we are born, so it’s not fair that a country only focus’ on one particular racial group. I freaking love South Korea and I want to be in the “fame” industry there, because I have no interest in America society of “fame”. I want a chance to be equal in a different culture. Yes, I am white, and I would hate it if people would only like me for my race. It’s stressful for us too and we work hard to get what we want.. but it’s hard when we’re being turned down left and right, JUST because we are not Asian. It really, really hurts. Think of what you said about how you felt living in America and being Asian.. Well, I understand you, because that is exactly how I feel being white and wanting to join the K-Pop industry. I have no interest in American fame and I want to start over in Korea, if possible.. But how can I start over when I am being judged for everything about me just because of my race? I understand your blog, but know that I feel EXACTLY how you do. And it really hurts me; I get depression from it all the time. It’s sad that you can’t do something because of your race and it sucks to go through that feeling every day. I truly understand your pain, so please try to understand that we are so similar in the pain that we go through.

PS Elena

i agree a lot, but in america the public is more diverse than in korea, at least until now, because now that it is globally praised i think everyone should have a chance. maybe some agencies could focus on that

Giovanna Conzo

So you’re saying if a non-asian where to debut in South Korea, especially somebody who is white South Korea will favor that “token member”because she’s white and white people are much more desirable. And that this event is an evil to society because then asians will be degraded.
I’m sorry but I have to disagree. A country is not going to throw away their pride out the window because of a white “token member”. This is Korea we’re talking about here.

Myra Esoteric

Hi, I’m a musician in the US who is Chinese. I’m a singer and rock guitar and keyboard player around age 30. Yes, I have also been confronted very negatively by black and white girls in high school when I got a solo in choir and they did not. Yes I have a day job right now, but that may change.

But man Asia is also an international place. I do not know enough about the Korean culture, just found this site through google. Things are changing. There are a lot of celebrities, who are mixed race or a non native Asian.

kpopwarrior6

Yes girl yes!!!! Preach!!! This article COULD NOT have been more on point.

Jessica Badillo

Finally an Asian talking about racism, i read the whole article and all the time i was thinking, “So all that i have thought for 5 years is true”. I just have to say that i’m sick and tired with asians over putting every white person above themselves it’s just a shame and a pathetic thing to do. And like SOI said, all of the korean artists are so damn in love with their “American or european” fans that actually they forgot where the money came from. I’m from Mexico and god, i’ve seen how much all the Latin fans spend just for one freaking CD.

I’m mad with SM and Super Junior even now but at the same time i’m their fan. I remember when they came, they just stayed for one night and the next day they were off to London where they stayed for a freaking week. I think it’s a miserable thing to do, they just do not appreciate the fact that all of their foreign fans spend a FUCKING LARGE SUME OF MONEY IN THEIR GOODS. I’m tired of that stupid thing about being “Whiter”, i’m sick and tired of all of their asian prejudice and i wish i could dislike their music but sadly i still can’t. I’m still a fan of SJ, EXO (Mocking JongIn), GG (Bullying Yuri)…
But now i’m just praying for the whole latin market just stay away from Kpop, they are not as incredible as the used to and their music is getting boring and lastly they do not show appreciate for us. They can stay with their little “European, white, thiny, big nose girl”, and that’s all. Thank you for opening my eyes and i hope the market will just stay close for asians and their ways of living.

Katherine

Asians are literally not seen anywhere in Hollywood, and if there are Asian stars then they’re really unpopular (the ones that are popular are only a few). So that’s why I went to kpop(I fell in love with Minho from SHINee). I was drawn in and attracted to people who had the same race as mine and wouldn’t be made fun of or anything because they were Asian. And now foreigners and stuff are going to be on the k-pop scene… I’m sorry if I seem ignorant and all…

Jackie Deser’e Azani

I wonder how different this all would be if she was of Latino dicent or a multicultural girl??

Eve

Look this is all well and good, but I still think k-pop should embrace other races just as much as American pop should. I just hate the fact that people are restricted to one pop industry or another because of race. I think everyone should be able to have an equal chance in all sides of the music industry, which I’m sure sounds idealistic, and that’s what it is. But I think it’s good that progress is being made in Kpop, and the next logical step is for progress to be made in the American pop scene. For an asian to debut successfully in the American pop scene and to do well. I don’t agree with white privelige, but I don’t know if debuting a white person in a kpop group is an indication of privelige. It’s just a step towards the “idealistic” music industry I described. If the same type of step was taken first in the American scene, I don’t think it would be as much of an issue for people.
~
Anyways, please I don’t wanna receive any hate for this. I don’t mean to offend anyone, but if I did then I’m sorry. Byee ^-^

재도

This article and the comments are just yet more
confirmation that K-pop has a problem: the fans are racist AF against white people.

christinanolanXD

I love this article and I love how racially aware you are as an Asian American<3
So many of my friends just brush these issues under the carpet.

ZOMG GMOZ

Basically the line “For one, it lends way to the theory that the chances of Olivia being
praised and being mistreated because of her ethnicity are equal — a
theory that is effectively debunked by several decades’ worth in social
science and whiteness studies proving that cultures everywhere largely
regard white people in a favorable light.” – is the biggest crock of Social Justice Warrior, brainwashed, Regressive Left cult member drivel… It pretty much explains the entire article. It’s been years and The Gloss are not famous, popular, or anything even close to it… So then what can be deduced is that they failed BECAUSE they had a white member and that Koreans are all Korean supremacists, but merely have a soft spot for other East Asians and light-skinned South East Asians.

If “whiteness” is regarded in a “favorable light”… it’s because white people are amazing, their art, cultures, languages and inventions have made this world a better place. What the heck have black people done? There is always TRUTH to stereotypes. Remember that. Black people are the most criminal race on Earth. Of course Koreans and anyone else in their right minds will favor white people over them. Look at black countries or even black neighborhoods in white countries, some of the deadliest places on Earth… can’t say that about many white ones. It’s these SJW types that like to pretend race is not real… and that races don’t have physical, emotional, biological, and even spiritual; tendencies, strengths, weaknesses, immunities, resistances, etc. As a Latina.. I know that women who date black men end up DEAD… so if I were given the choice between Black, White, Latino or Asian which would I rather marry and have children with (if it had to be a random man I don’t get to choose for myself).. I’d choose Asian every time, and white would be 2nd. WHY??!?!! Because Asian men commit the least Femicide, or other types of murders and just crime in general, and have the lowest child abuse rates, etc.

disqus_lIpAXKNwF1

Well as if US is letting any Asians in billboard hot 100, playing an Asian/Kpop song on the radio or even seeing an Asian being nominated for oscars. Same thing in France. It is kinda unfair when a white person get recognized in an Asian country. Meanwhile, in their country, Asians are excluded just because they are “ASIANS”.

Jiyong-crayon

I dont see what the big deal is… shes far from being the first westerner in kpop…

Yuiiu

honestly, as a white person i feel like its wrong of me to like kpop & kdrama.. but then again, a ton of asians like series with white people, or songs with white people too?.. i dont get why there’s never any kpop on the radio, english isnt the only language smh

bilishere

I do believe that Korea must not hider any person from entering the music scene, as I believe that they might bring musical diversity. Some of them might even bring out a new sound for K-pop and bring out new possible formulas for songs. That is of course if they even have the artistic freedom.

As an avid fan of music, I hope that she does not intend to debut only to say ” I’m a white girl who made it big time in Korea”. I hope she is in this for the music and improving her musicality. In the end of the day, I came here to enjoy and appreciate music. I can’t deny that media is political in some way or another, but it really saddens me when we judge musicians and idols mainly not from the music

Patchola XD

Actually it never happend because it’s hard for non asians to get a Visa to live in south-korea even if it is for work, and to be a star it gets even harder to get a Visa. Before this group there was another one a boys group with an Italian but they didn’t debut because the Italian guy couldn’t get a Visa to stay in the country.

mia

I’m not korean, i’m caucasian but i look like asian, can i will be a kpop idol?

PS Elena

i would like to see kpop agencies for people around the world, because the way i see it the important fact is that they are managed by a korean agency and singing in korean, but i get your points, stars should be able to be more diverse. it should be equally possible for everyone, so that everyone can shine and relate.

C.J.

Ok, Im kinda confused now. Is it a good or bad thing that she is apart of a K-Pop group?