If Cabrera wins the triple crown then he's a lock for the MVP. We can talk about OPS+ and WAR and wRC+ all day but there's no way the baseball writers ignore the triple crown. Ted Williams didn't win the MVP because the media hated Ted Williams.

If Cabby doesn't win the crown, then it's a toss up. Probably an edge to Cabrera. A bigger edge if the Tigers make the playoffs and the Angels don't, which is almost guaranteed now.

Dafatone:DeWayne Mann: Nehllah: I'm getting really sick of this conversation. Trout is a good story but even if Miguel doesn't win the triple crown he deserves it.

Why? He's not even a better hitter than Trout.

Do you think his lack of baserunning & defense makes up for his worse offense?

Of course he's a better hitter. He has a higher batting average.

Dang it.

ignatius_crumbcake:If Cabrera wins the triple crown then he's a lock for the MVP. We can talk about OPS+ and WAR and wRC+ all day but there's no way the baseball writers ignore the triple crown. Ted Williams didn't win the MVP because the media hated Ted Williams.

If Cabby doesn't win the crown, then it's a toss up. Probably an edge to Cabrera. A bigger edge if the Tigers make the playoffs and the Angels don't, which is almost guaranteed now.

Nehllah:I'm getting really sick of this conversation. Trout is a good story but even if Miguel doesn't win the triple crown he deserves it.

You're sick of being wrong?

Does anyone else find it ironic that "traditionalists" are supporting Cabrera? After all, wasn't Ted Williams denied the MVP in his Triple Crown Years because he wasn't as good an all-around player as DiMaggio and Gordon?

Seriously, though, if Cabrera and Trout weren't comparable offensively, then this wouldn't be close. But they *are* comparable offensively, and with Trout's tremendous baserunning and fantastic defense, combined with Cabrera's rather lousy defense, it frankly shouldn't even be close- Trout is the MVP.

Hillbilly Jim:I don't have a dog in the fight but how can it not be Cabrera.

From right before you:

nein:But they *are* comparable offensively, and with Trout's tremendous baserunning and fantastic defense, combined with Cabrera's rather lousy defense, it frankly shouldn't even be close- Trout is the MVP.

nein:Nehllah: I'm getting really sick of this conversation. Trout is a good story but even if Miguel doesn't win the triple crown he deserves it.

You're sick of being wrong?

Does anyone else find it ironic that "traditionalists" are supporting Cabrera? After all, wasn't Ted Williams denied the MVP in his Triple Crown Years because he wasn't as good an all-around player as DiMaggio and Gordon?

Seriously, though, if Cabrera and Trout weren't comparable offensively, then this wouldn't be close. But they *are* comparable offensively, and with Trout's tremendous baserunning and fantastic defense, combined with Cabrera's rather lousy defense, it frankly shouldn't even be close- Trout is the MVP.

It's not best player, it is most valuable. Otherwise Ken Griffey jr and Barry Bonds would have won all of the MVP titles in the 90's.

nein:Does anyone else find it ironic that "traditionalists" are supporting Cabrera? After all, wasn't Ted Williams denied the MVP in his Triple Crown Years because he wasn't as good an all-around player as DiMaggio and Gordon?

It's pretty simple. Back then, the "traditionalists" were the ones saying that all facets of the game mattered. Or they weren't traditionalists, they were just people who hated Ted Williams, since people hated Ted Williams.

Today's "traditionalists" fall into two camps. People who only give the MVP to a playoff team (that isn't Colorado. Sorry, Matt Holliday.) And people who just oppose sabermetrics cause Wah. Meanwhile, the newfangled folks wind up aligned with the "traditionalists" of old. And they're right.

Hillbilly Jim:nein: Nehllah: I'm getting really sick of this conversation. Trout is a good story but even if Miguel doesn't win the triple crown he deserves it.

You're sick of being wrong?

Does anyone else find it ironic that "traditionalists" are supporting Cabrera? After all, wasn't Ted Williams denied the MVP in his Triple Crown Years because he wasn't as good an all-around player as DiMaggio and Gordon?

Seriously, though, if Cabrera and Trout weren't comparable offensively, then this wouldn't be close. But they *are* comparable offensively, and with Trout's tremendous baserunning and fantastic defense, combined with Cabrera's rather lousy defense, it frankly shouldn't even be close- Trout is the MVP.

It's not best player, it is most valuable. Otherwise Ken Griffey jr and Barry Bonds would have won all of the MVP titles in the 90's.

Hillbilly Jim:nein: Nehllah: I'm getting really sick of this conversation. Trout is a good story but even if Miguel doesn't win the triple crown he deserves it.

You're sick of being wrong?

Does anyone else find it ironic that "traditionalists" are supporting Cabrera? After all, wasn't Ted Williams denied the MVP in his Triple Crown Years because he wasn't as good an all-around player as DiMaggio and Gordon?

Seriously, though, if Cabrera and Trout weren't comparable offensively, then this wouldn't be close. But they *are* comparable offensively, and with Trout's tremendous baserunning and fantastic defense, combined with Cabrera's rather lousy defense, it frankly shouldn't even be close- Trout is the MVP.

It's not best player, it is most valuable. Otherwise Ken Griffey jr and Barry Bonds would have won all of the MVP titles in the 90's.

I hate that argument, but let's play- how is a CF who plays tremendous defense, steals 50 bases with terrific baserunning, and hits like Miguel Cabrera, NOT more valuable than someone who hits like Miguel Cabrera but, unfortunately, also fields and runs like Miguel Cabrera?

It's not even like Trout is playing for a last place team. You do realize that the Angels were eliminated from the playoffs only just yesterday, and have a better record than the Tigers despite playing in an exponentially tougher division?

bhcompy:Hillbilly Jim: nein: Nehllah: I'm getting really sick of this conversation. Trout is a good story but even if Miguel doesn't win the triple crown he deserves it.

You're sick of being wrong?

Does anyone else find it ironic that "traditionalists" are supporting Cabrera? After all, wasn't Ted Williams denied the MVP in his Triple Crown Years because he wasn't as good an all-around player as DiMaggio and Gordon?

Seriously, though, if Cabrera and Trout weren't comparable offensively, then this wouldn't be close. But they *are* comparable offensively, and with Trout's tremendous baserunning and fantastic defense, combined with Cabrera's rather lousy defense, it frankly shouldn't even be close- Trout is the MVP.

It's not best player, it is most valuable. Otherwise Ken Griffey jr and Barry Bonds would have won all of the MVP titles in the 90's.

bhcompy:So most valuable. Who has the highest WAR? That is value, defined.

As much as I agree....I'm fulling willing to accept OTHER definitions of value.

I just don't see any reasonable ones that end with Cabrera on top. You'd basically have to decide that a small subset of games count more than others, and that Cabrera is the reason that the Rangers and As are better than the White Sox, and that RBI are more important than Runs, and....

nein:Hillbilly Jim: nein: Nehllah: I'm getting really sick of this conversation. Trout is a good story but even if Miguel doesn't win the triple crown he deserves it.

You're sick of being wrong?

Does anyone else find it ironic that "traditionalists" are supporting Cabrera? After all, wasn't Ted Williams denied the MVP in his Triple Crown Years because he wasn't as good an all-around player as DiMaggio and Gordon?

Seriously, though, if Cabrera and Trout weren't comparable offensively, then this wouldn't be close. But they *are* comparable offensively, and with Trout's tremendous baserunning and fantastic defense, combined with Cabrera's rather lousy defense, it frankly shouldn't even be close- Trout is the MVP.

It's not best player, it is most valuable. Otherwise Ken Griffey jr and Barry Bonds would have won all of the MVP titles in the 90's.

I hate that argument, but let's play- how is a CF who plays tremendous defense, steals 50 bases with terrific baserunning, and hits like Miguel Cabrera, NOT more valuable than someone who hits like Miguel Cabrera but, unfortunately, also fields and runs like Miguel Cabrera?

It's not even like Trout is playing for a last place team. You do realize that the Angels were eliminated from the playoffs only just yesterday, and have a better record than the Tigers despite playing in an exponentially tougher division?

Maybe its the added power, or 50 some rbi. Trout also has a better line up behind him.

Maybe its the added power, or 50 some rbi. Trout also has a better line up behind him.

Well jeez, could the difference in RBI possibly be attributed to the fact that Trout hits leadoff (thus, he has the likes of Maicer Izturis and Vernon Wells hitting in front of him)? And of course he has a better lineup behind him- he hits leadoff, so the best hitters on the team are presumably hitting 3rd and 4th.

But it's not like Cabrera's the only guy in that Detroit lineup. That Prince Fielder guy is pretty good. And it certainly helps your RBI totals when you have Austin Jackson's speed getting on base at a .370 clip.

Hillbilly Jim:Cabrera has scored 108 runs not too bad from the 3 hole. He leads his team in runs scored btw.

Would we not expect someone hitting in front of Prince Fielder to score a lot of runs?

Both runs and rbis are stupid stats...but it's really, really hard to argue RBI are more valuable. Trout leads the league in runs despite missing the first month. That's at least as important as Cabrera leading in RBI, yeah?

Maybe its the added power, or 50 some rbi. Trout also has a better line up behind him.

Well jeez, could the difference in RBI possibly be attributed to the fact that Trout hits leadoff (thus, he has the likes of Maicer Izturis and Vernon Wells hitting in front of him)? And of course he has a better lineup behind him- he hits leadoff, so the best hitters on the team are presumably hitting 3rd and 4th.

But it's not like Cabrera's the only guy in that Detroit lineup. That Prince Fielder guy is pretty good. And it certainly helps your RBI totals when you have Austin Jackson's speed getting on base at a .370 clip.

Checking the two teams on espn, Detroit has three guys hitting better than 280., the Angles have 7