How do you all feel about the role of sex or sexual play in spanking? Does sex usually follow a spanking and/or is sexual play part of the spanking? Or, on the other hand, do you keep the two separate? Does it depend who is spanking you and in what circumstances?

Currently, I prefer to keep sex and spanking completely separate. For one thing I find that i very much enjoy and appreciate spanking....the sensations, the mindset, the atmosphere, etc for it's own sake. I kind of feel like, if sex were involved, it would become the focus and would take away from the focus on the spanking.

For another I am only comfortable being sexual with someone when we have a well-established and very trusting relationship. Since I have never introduced spanking into a romantic relationship, I've never been spanked by anyone to whom I feel close enough to share myself sexually. It's interesting, because trusting someone enough to have them spank you is also a very intimate trust, but it's different for me, somehow.

I have always had to be very clear about my wishes on this matter from the outset of speaking to a potential new spanking partner. Sometimes the conversation is over before it starts because someone is looking for spanking and sex. Once (as I was just reminded by an old post of mine that got bumped up) the atmosphere of the spanking became uncomfortable as (despite prior discussion and agreement) it became very clear that the man spanking me wanted sex, and was hoping I would change my mind about that. Previous conversations with him (and my spidey senses, so to speak) had assured me as much as possible that he would never have harmed or forced me, and he didn't, but his want was obvious.

When we discussed it later, we agreed that we were not a good match as spanking partners, because he would prefer to have sex with a woman after spanking her and I wasn't willing to do that.

I had some better luck recently with a man whose girlfriend doesn't share his kink but has given him leave to "explore" as long as there is no sex. He said to me from the beginning, "I am totally committed to my lady, and not at all interested in being sexual with anyone else." That works just fine for me!

You might mean you want to be spanked and do nothing else sexually. But if you are saying you get absolutely no sexual gratification at all from spanking, I might have to reserve the right to be skeptical.

Very hard to draw a distinct line between sensual gratification and sexual stimulation. A woman might pass me at a party, reach up with a smile and touch her finger to my chin for one second and walk away, and that might stick in my memory as one of the sexiest things I've ever experienced. Even if we never exchange one word of conversation and never again touch.

The guy whose girlfriend gave him the right to "explore" as long as there was no sex involved is either lying, or his girlfriend is unbelievably naive. Sex is not merely intercourse.

"You might mean you want to be spanked and do nothing else sexually. But if you are saying you get absolutely no sexual gratification at all from spanking, I might have to reserve the right to be skeptical."

The first. I could never say the second with a straight face. Heh.

Re: Stimulation vs gratification- Quite true. Again, I'm not claiming that spanking is devoid of a sexual component. It isn't. I guess my question is, to put it bluntly, do you have to get off every time you're turned on?

By naive, you seem to be implying that she thinks there is no sexual component to spanking, or that he could spank someone without being turned on by it. IF she thinks this, then yes, there is certainly some naivety at play here.

However, I don't think that he's lying or she's naive are the only two choices. A possible third is that this is a boundary the two of them have agreed upon and both are comfortable with, and she trusts him not to transgress it.

Perhaps it boils down to that old expression, "He can work up an appetite wherever he wants as long as he eats at home."

Take myself for example. If I were in a committed relationship with a guy, would I let him spank another woman? Yeah, probably. I don't know why he would need to if he could spank me pretty much whenever he wanted, but I'd let him if he asked me. Now, I'd probably insist on being present, not for lack of trust, but because if someone is having spanking fun with my man, I had better be there too! Would I mind that he got all worked up and turned on by another girl? No, because at the end of the day, he's coming home to *my* bed. If a man is having sex with someone other than his significant other, that's a whole 'nother issue, whether you want to "blame" spanking as the catalyst or not.

Likewise if he *was* lying and his girlfriend *would* be angry to find out he was spanking someone, then that's cheating too, but that's not my responsibility to worry about since I can't know for sure. If he really wanted to cover his tracks on this, why even bring up the fact that he had a girlfriend? I woudn't have known otherwise.

If you were secure enough with your boyfriend to sense that he would always come back to you after playing elsewhere, then you would be secure indeed. One could make the argument that if he felt the need to play with others, he obviously would not be getting everything he wants at home. I'm not sure I'd be so secure in that situation. But maybe you'd feel---better the devil you know, and if you're there, at least you can exert some control on the circumstances. I could understand that.

I have no access to statistics on the subject, but I have the general impression that "open" relationships are not renowned for their longevity.

And even if a guy consents to your ground rules, isn't there something a little bit off about having a spanking session with a guy who is obviously going to get very horny in the process but who cannot get any relief? Is it fair to him? Just asking.

Having reconsidered what I just posted a few minutes ago, I am going to back down a bit. I wasn't thinking the matter through.

Guys are always going to get horny. That's what they do. This does not obligate a woman to relieve their horniness. I understand that.

Never have I gotten angry at a woman who did not want to have sex. Aside from the moral considerations, I want my partners to be eager.

I did once meet with a young woman who wanted a spanking and a spanking only. It went fine. I didn't press for more. Funny old world, though---the next time we got together, she ended up spanking me! Still no intercourse. It wasn't the love affair of the millennium, but we both got something out of it. So I guess it can happen.

Obviously, terms have to be absolutely clear. No coyness. No "well, I'd rather not, but we'll play it moment by moment". If you don't want sex, make that understood.

Thank you for this second post, Warmpalm. I read the first one last night and took great offense at the suggestion you also saw in your earlier post...that a woman is obligated to "do something" about the fact that a man is aroused. I figured it best to sit on my hands until I calmed down, and now you've saved me the trouble of getting all indignant again.

Glad to hear you had a good experience with the lady you mentioned, even if it was not "The love affair of the millennium."

And I agree that clarity is important here. Not that someone isn't allowed to change their mind about sex or no sex, (which may be very difficult for the other party, and I sympathize.) but if you know it from the outset, be clear. As for me, i always do know it and I always am clear.

Clearly, I just have a different view on spanking Fred, it depends on what you mean by touching. There is obviously some degree of physical contact that will occur between parties during a spanking. But if you mean touching of breasts, genitals, etc, line drawn before that, and clearly so. Again, there are no surprises. I am always upfront about this.

The dom/sub dynamic is not how I approach spanking at all. I approach it as an equal with someone I happen to be allowing to spank me, within parameters that we have both set, discussed and gotten comfortable with before the spanking begins. A spanker might speak to me sternly, might place or hold me in a particular position, might push my limits of pain tolerance...but only because I am allowing him to, knowing that, with one word, I can take back control over myself. That's almost *more* exhilarating in a way. I don't *have* to let him spank me with a certain force or with a certain implement or tease me by making me beg for a spanking or recount why I deserve one....I don't have to, but I can and I do. Instead of having completely given over control previously, I make a moment by moment decision to continue relinquishing it.

"Why have a spanker at all, a spanking machine would be more reliable?"

This question saddens me. If sex is taken out of the equation, is there not still the excitement of certain sights, sounds, physical sensation as one person reacts to the other?

If you take away the D/s aspect, that doesn't mean you've taken away the entirety of the psychological aspect of control. My current (but occasional, as we live in different cities) spanker and I are not D/s, but we can have great fun with the psychological aspect of the spanking dynamic even when we can't get together for spanking itself. Si...spanking machine....truly a sad thought!

As I said, the way that I personally picture the spanker/spankee relationship is that they are equals, and within that equality, one consents to accept a spanking, and perhaps certain other types of control that go with it.

What works for one couple does not necessarily work for an other.I let my husband spank me because it feels good for both me and him but if he had to tell me to spank him (which he won't!)i would refuse.I cannot imagine myself being the dominion partner.

Verywideawake1: I think you are in danger of stretching the word "equals" to the snapping point. You and your partner are not both submitting to a spanking from the other. If you were, that would amount to an arrangement that would warrant use of the word.

You have something else going. It sounds as if it works out pretty well for you and your partner, but I would hesitate to call it "equal".

Suppose I have an arrangement with my wife. I can go down on her, but she will not go down on me. There are surely many couples who have this arrangement going (or the reverse situation), and the individuals might both be fine with it in many cases. But you couldn't call it "equal".

My opinion here. I agree 100% with wideawake. Warmpalm, there is nothing that is exactly 50/50, because everyone has different desires. Some times a relationship will be 75/25 one day and change to the opposite the next. As a moderator, I am going to suggest you read the site protocol again, as you are very close to "flaming", which is against the rules. Please try to be more open and accepting of other peoples lifestyles and choices. There are as many different ways couple relate and it is not up to any of us to judge. Queen of Innocence

Wait a minute, Fanny. I said that "it sounds as if works out pretty well for you and your partner". That sounds supportive to me. I was not "flaming", I was discussing the accuracy of the term "equals" in a certain context. I think we can have friendly disagreements about terminology in this forum. I have been absolutely civil in all of my posts----more than civil, I have been friendly and supportive, and I do not think it is fair at all to me for you to suggest otherwise.

There are many dimensions to equality in a relationship. The ultimate control is in the hands of the spanked but the play up to that point it involves, in my experience, a Dom/sub relationship which is unequal by definition. But the inequality is in the play, the make-believe, if you like. I have found it quite interesting to push the boundary in a spanking session and my wife appreciated, after the fact, being pushed a bit beyond what she would have liked. There is inequality in the relationship while the Dom is calling the shots; it is like the suspension of disbelief in a movie. We agree to be unequal for a while and we agree to believe that we are unequal.

This relates to the reason why I have had some trouble picturing the platonic spankings that we have been talking about in this thread.

Yep Warmpalm you have been sportive and i enjoy reading what you write and i'm sure others do too but a moderator is there to give a clip around the ear some time and this time it was you, tomorrow it might be me!!

I understand. But a forum, a discussion, does not mean everybody simply agrees with everybody all the time. Exchange of various points of view, among adults anyway, means that occasionally, inevitably, there will be dissenting views. They should and can be friendly and entirely respectful, and my comments certainly were. I wasn't even very dissenting---as I point out, I said "it works out well for you and your partner". Read what I wrote again---it was not remotely "flaming". What Fred2010 has just posted is a variation of what I wrote. He was more articulate than I, but he too was engaging in civil debate of a particular point---not finger-pointing or "flaming".

Since I started posting a few months ago, I have been consistently impressed by the level of decency and maturity expressed in the posts. It is indeed inspiring. People show a real courtly grace on "Spanking Den" discussions which I wish was more prevalent not only elsewhere on the Internet but elsewhere in real life. (Obviously, is isn't.) But there has to be room for genuine debate on topics, within this framework of grace, else it isn't much of a forum.

I will comment on sex and spanking. Both are 100% consentual. Just because I spank someone that does not give me the right to have sex with them. If I have sex with someone that does not give me the right to spank them. Either party has vito power. Anytime always. I sence the sexual frustration with some tops. I get it that a person may want to have sex when they spank but the spankee (or spanker) can decline sex and it needs to be respected, otherwise it is a crime. Being clear at the begening and during the time together is so important. This is really about Communication.

True some associate spanking with sex others don't and if things are not made clear one party or both end up being frustrated and cheated. It's a good thing that both my husband and me are on the same wave length that is spanking is followed by sex,for us if it was not so he would neither spank me and i would not let myself being spanked.For us it works this way,if he would spank me for doing some thing wrong well we would be heading for trouble cause that's just me.

Well Tess, that is how we had it all along. After my wife's interest in spanking started to wane, her getting good sex afterward was part of her reward, now though it is just sex. What is good about this forum is our ability to expand our viewpoints be reading what people with very different experiences have to say.

In my view some good natured flaming is Ok and fun, but I have not seen any yet as we are all overly sensitive. Some may have been missing their spankings.

It is the same with my exhusband. We have sex and spank and have sex and spank... I also have an interest in being spanked by other people and that will most likely not include sex. So I discuss that up front. I may get aroused but that does not mean I have to act on it.

Since I do not have sex outside my relationship, I can see having spanking sessions without sex. My wife lost interest in spanking but not in sex. I doubt that she would be happy with my going out on a spanking date as Warmpalm once pointed out

WP....I think you missed my point about what I meant when I said that my spanking partners and I are equals.

What I mean is that, when I enter a situation in which I am to be spanked, there is nothing compelling me to submit to the person spanking me. There is nothing compelling me to continue the spanking for one second beyond what *I* decide that I want. We enter each spanking on equal footing, and the inequality of spanker vs spanked exists only and exactly as long as I allow it to. During the spanking, we may occupy unequal *roles* but that's not the same as *being* unequal.

I'm not talking about "equality" in terms of what one person is doing to another, no indeed. If I were talking purely in terms of physical action, I wouldn't say that the spanker and the spanked are equals, unless, as you say, they are about to turn around and switch roles. I am talking about something beyond the physical. I'm talking about the rights each person in the relationship has to autonomy and control over their own experiences and their own bodies. On that, my spanking partners and I are equals. Someone only ever spanks me when I make the free, autonomous, moment-by-moment decision, first to allow them to begin spanking me, and, as the spanking is going on, to continue doing so.

You may not call that equal, but I do, and I don't know how to explain it any more clearly.

Sorry everyone, but Tess is correct. It is a moderator's job (like it or not), to comment, or delete, anything that appears to be "attacking" someone else's point of view. I am offended by the idea that some members are critical of how other member choose to live their lifestyles. Furthermore, is you do not have statistics to back up statements, they comment probably should not be posted. I also don't believe Fred's comment about "Why have a spanker at all, a spanking machine would be more reliable?" was appropriate, as it was a put-down. Like it or not, this is Bethie's site, her rules; and I am here to make sure they are followed. In the past issues have heated up quite a bit, and it is much better to stop the discussion before any more feelings are hurt. Queen of Innocence

I have been following this thread and contemplating both sides of the issue. I cannot fathom spanking not including sex. I am very new to all of this, but at this point in my understanding and intrest in spanking it is very much intertwined with sex. Of course, I am coming from the point of view of a married woman who would not ever be playing with anyone but my husband. If I were not married, my answer might be different, but I probably wouldn't have pursued spanking then either. I was able to share this intimate fantasy with him because we have a foundation of trust, and I know he won't judge me for my slightly deviant desires. ;)

Remember girls and boys that here we are mentioning just spanking there may be other fantasies intertwined with it which most of us make sure that we do not mention since this forum is about spanking so at times our message does not come out as it should. Remember the biggest and most powerful sex organ is the BRAIN.

I really do not want to insult anyone. I found the discussion interesting as I had not imagined spanking outside the context of foreplay. Still, I am not sure I understand the relationship between a spanker and spanked that does not have the level of intimacy they may include sexy stuff. Obviously there must be an interpersonal dynamic or else the spanker is just a machine(no offence intendeed).

Fred, some spanking relationships have a different type of intimacy than the type you may be familiar with but it's still a type of intimate interaction. Some spanking relationships between mentors/disciplinarians and their partners can be extremely intimate without any sexual overtones. People in those relationships have needs and desires that aren't the same as those between sexual partners. They care for one another but it doesn't have those sexual overtones.

I've known people who have had some very serious mentor/mentoree relationships so I've seen how that dynamic can work. Those relationships had a depth of caring that had nothing to do with sexual attraction and that was what they both needed and wanted. Their interactions made the relationship work and that's something you could never get from a spanking machine.

I never have sex, after a spanking, but with my husband. Others have spanked me, of late, but I refused to allow them to have sex (vaginal intercourse). My hubby will usually take me when he finishes but it is a mutual enjoyment at that point. It is a very important aspect of the whole act. It is a submission of a sort, but very necessary for me.

When I ran a ad for spanking partners, I picked a site that was ONLY for friendly spankings and not a mixed fetish site. That's because I did not want to get involved with ladies who were looking for any hardcore perversions or anything more than spanking play.

The profile questions had the posters plainly state whether or not they wanted sexual acts, or spanking only. I stated "it is up to the sub". and I mean it.

But I do VERY errotic spankings with a special technique that ensures 100% that they ALL willingly ask me to sex em beore I am done. But just to be sure there's NO misunderstanding they have to do a little begging first.hehe.

I have NEVER taken advantage of a lady. Nor have I EVER asked one for sex either. Never will. Never will have to.