Thankyou Ari!, I would love to catch up with Linda but we will be still many hours travel from one another, looking forward to the day it will be possible...xxxMay you all be bathed in light and peace and gratitude in 2013, looking forward to sharing more EA with you all. Tory

Hi Rad, Steve, Ari and all others,A few lines to wish you all happy holiday and that the New Year brings enlightenment, peace and love to the world. Hopefully more will wake up, even a little change would make so much difference to humanity, but alas i fear my wish will go unanswered.Love and peace Rita

With this configuration this Soul will already know all about rebelling against the societies values, it will also know all about survival and how to sustain itself / self reliance independent from others. In other words over many life times it has developed its own value system and it will use its self capacities and abilities in order to sustain itself.

It will feel very alienated towards the consensus society with its values and beliefs and it will maintain its previously learned self reliance and vision of itself apart from the consensus society that surrounds it. With the ruler of SN in the 11 house it may have suffered persecution because of its rigid values, having to flee, hide away from society or having lost its identity by the trauma its Soul had to undergo. All this trauma and loss is necessary for its evolution to continue because it is in the transition stage of second individuated to third individuated stage. It will decondition and liberate itself from cultural conditioning patterns that do not allow for further growth to happen and it needs to liberate / rebel itself from all societal values so that its conscious structure can open up to new views. It will also need to find a way to apply back into society as a means of survival, its skills or talents and its own vision in a completely objective and individualistic way that resonates with its Souls intrinsic nature.

Beautifully said Rita.

With ruler of the SN in the 11 house, this placement shows us that in past lives its Soul has had traumatic experiences , these traumatic experiences have helped it to cleanse by rebelling itself of the consensus society way of thinking and its values. The prior life trauma caused great fracturing in its values and material wealth could have driven it to escapism either through alcohol or by isolation in some monastery being incapable of relating to anything but its illusions.

I assume you are referring to the sn in the 12th house? Everything you wrote is true, however the monastery would likely not be relevant.

Eventually its need for evolution to continue will push it to have confrontations with other people that through having different points of views from its own, will show it that other views can be much broader and very different than it believed to be. These experiences provoked a shock and forced it to go inwards, analyze and realize (PPP 8 house ) how limited its vision of the world is.

This may have pushed it into a group of one, isolating, victimizing and rebelling itself against all others that do not share its values. It will feel that life is beyond control and that it is at the mercy of forces beyond its control this could have pushed to escapism through drugs or alcohol until it finds other people that think alike as itself and felt secure enough to share its views resources and live secure for a long time without much change with its ideas and views of how the world should / should not be ( Pluto 2nd house ). It has deep unconscious fears of any change that could rock the boat. This Soul with this configuration will resist change ( Pluto 2nd house / Taurus / PPP 8th house Scorpio fixed also and the SN ruler 11th house / Aquarius )and even through trauma it would be very difficult for it to change its values or survival habits because it would seek to find its security through some prior value system that it identified with.

Having Pluto in the second house / SN 12 house, will cause it to resist change because it is a fixed house and because the known and familiar represents security. Yet to resist change and not allow for evolution to proceed will cause through out its life in varying degrees of intensity cycles of confusion, alienation, disorientation because It fears deeply loosing control of its life if it succumbs to change and at the same time it has realized that all that it identified with, no longer seems to have any meaning nor can it identify with it anymore.

Great, its about the loss of meaning - 12th house sn.

It comes into this life knowing what is right and what is wrong and will adopt for itself some idealized conduct and will judge others who do not reflect its standards. Cyclically it will analyze and judge itself until it learns that "ultimate" judgement is based upon its intentions and intentions reflect its desires, so it is important that it focuses on its desires in order to understand its intentions. The inner judgement makes it aware of what is preventing it to become perfect in relation to its standard of conduct that it has for itself. It will keep on perfecting its standard of right conduct so that it recognizes any incorrect desire and behavior of others, this way it will not affect for itself any incorrect behavior of others through its lack of judgement or discrimination.

What you wrote there would be relevent for Capricorn/Saturn/10th house signatures: judgement, right and wrong...

It will continue what it started in prior life times, which is the desire to find and discover for itself the knowledge that transcend cultural based values, time and space. At a Soul level it feels a deep desire to keep aligning itself with some type of transcendental belief that can show it the unity of all creation. In this life time it will have a deep inner sense that it is standing upon a precipice, because behind it, is the known, the familiar, the security it knows with its own world, with its values, and in front, it only sees its future and that which represents timeless and the Universe.

Yet with SN in the 12 house in prior life times it has had the need to merge itself / identify with the Source of creation, ( ruler of SN 11 / SN 12 house ) it has already broken away from consensus values and its Soul has been in the process of individuation so as to be able to transcend time space reality and get closer to its creator.

It hasn't not been literally identified with the Source of creation, rather it will have been consciously identified with whatever represents ultimate meaning for this soul.

Any disunion of its values will cause resistance and repulsion to the merging and surrendering process that it feels a pull towards, separating desires imply its unconscious fear of loosing control of its life. By relinquishing its desires from its egoistic identity it has been eliminating or dissolving any barrier that kept it from universalizing realizing that it can only surrender itself to feel complete and part of the Universe.

SN 12 house PP 6 house for evolution to continue it will develop specific ways or practical mental techniques through which, it will analyze itself and understand why it functions the way it does and why it is the way it is, slowly this process will make it understand or experience / witness how one part is linked to another part and how one part influences the expression of every other part.

It will try to find techniques such as meditation, yoga that will help it to ground its natural meditational state so that it can connect it self to a transcendental belief system, helping it to connect itself closer to the Source.

I think that is possible since those practices are certainly of interest at that evolutionary stage - but I must emphasize that the intention at this evolutionary stage is not to spiritualize consciousness in a spiritual state sense, rather it's to merge with a transcendent purpose that will allow the individuality of the soul to have a greater impact on the collective, greater than just ones own self: 12th house in the individuated state.

It cannot remain isolated any more, it will desire to help others through service and useful work, it will share, integrate and be of service to society or groups, showing and teaching others in a individualistic way what it knows to survive and its views about the world.I tried,BlessingsRita

Rita, everything you wrote, with the exception of the few corrections I offered, is accurate and true. Once again your improvement is really palpable. Please read other people's posts so you can get more perspective on understanding the connection between the 12th house sn and Pluto in the 2nd. I did not comment much on your analysis of the sn ruler in the 11th house or on the north node in the 6th because as a group we are not interpreting those signatures yet.With love,Ari Moshe

I have been distracted focusing on other issues so haven't had the time I would like to address this next phase but want to post something so will write some of my thoughts:

This soul for lifetimes has been focusing his 2nd house Pluto through an ego (12th house) that has desired to realize transcendent values wanting to dissolve all barriers towards merging with Source. In his deepest unconscious being he has been on a precipice between the past and the future...facing the choice of whether to operate from what he has known in the past or to jump off the cliff towards an unknown future. He would likely have made conscious choices in the past to participate within certain spiritual systems or practices in order to experientially realize the spiritual aspects of all of life.

What you say would be generally true for the spiritual stage of evolution. The desire to realize the spiritual aspects of all of life is a spiritual stage thing.

With Pluto in the 2nd there is a huge paradox here because he would have tremendous unconscious fear of loss of ego and his 2nd house issues have been about learning to find his own individual values and needs....He has been focusing on not needing anyone or anything and the 12th requires him to give all of this up. He knows through his Baptist upbringing that the "faith" that is preached from the pulpit is a far cry from what he can resonate with...

Resistance could manifest in a variety of ways. One example that comes to mind is someone who might be drawn to join a spiritual subgroup such as the Ramtha community where the "spiritual" teachings are in actuality quite ego focused. Though many spiritual truths are taught....one is taught that "they are God" (a form of delusion)....the emphasis is on "controlling" your life "manifesting" your every desire and rising above your emotions which is very contradictory to surrender, emotions, love, faith.....Such an individual might for a time by practicing visualization and focusing on desires realize certain egoic based dreams but at some point would experience deep betrayal or confrontation from an 8th house more powerful energy forcing them to recognize that they have been actually living out the same immature dependency as found in the Baptist church....just with a little more intellectual sophistication.....in reality it is not jumping off the cliff at all. The person might become very disillusioned realizing they have been duped in to losing financial resources and that they have become quite dependent on this supposedly superior being for protection and what to do next instead relying upon their own internal guidance and the true voice of Source.

Great example. My sense is that souls at this stage certainly could join this Ramtha community, however the soul aspirations behind it would not be an allure to merging with source, rather it would be about developing one's great capacity for projection, manifestation, psychic development, things of that nature.

There could be many other manifestations of resistance. Psychologically this person could have had lifetimes where he has had very poor emotional boundaries maybe even to the extent of manifesting mental illnesses such as dissociative disorders or paranoid delusions or addictive avoidanct behaviors that manifest in all sorts of forms from food addictions to alcoholism, etc. All of these would be ways of still holding on to individualized ego identity.....unconsciously the individual would rather be crazy or sick than to experience the abyss of the unknown and no ego....On the other hand because this person is getting ready to enter 3rd stage individuated I would expect that this person would have through previous lifetimes established some higher ability of ego function as they would not be ready to move on to this next stage if they were not able to independently function in the world and survive on their own. They would likely have some genuine experience of communion with Source....(is this accurate??)

Your on the right track however the way to think of it in this stage is that they would have been significantly disillusioned to the point where in this lifetime they are now learning the skills to apply their dreams into action. The issue with a 2nd house Pluto and a 12th house sn at this evolutionary juncture is the self enclosed reality that would have been created via a dream idea of reality that simply does not add up to reality itself - this leading to all kinds of inner potential and skill to not being shared, keeping the soul blocked, limited from moving beyond it's psychological well of isolation. And yes the possibility for addictions and any form of escapism that keeps the soul's head in the sand is definitely possible here. However at this point the soul is now ready to move forward with greater discrimination that would allow them to get out of their self limiting reality. This of course is singified by the nn.

And once again, in terms of genuine communion with Source - we just have to remember that the desires at this stage of evolution are focused on developing one's individuality in the world. So spiritualization needs to be applied to that level of consciousness.

This person could legitimately be quite psychic. He could have a highly developed sense of right and wrong....again the issues of how reliable his psychic abilities are or his ability to use judgement in a balanced and positive way would be determined by his true ego strengh meaning how in touch he is with his ego as operative within the larger Source....not independent of It. If he is not in balance then he is likely to have lots of negative judgement about self or others and if he is not in balance then any psychic abilities would be more of a manifestation of his own unconscious ego rather than Source or other realms. This individual could be someone who for many lifetimes lived a self sacrificing kind of life with martyrdom as an issue with his lack of boundaries or could have lived out dynamics of abuse where he was also in the perpetrator role....it is possible that he spent many liftimes in living in penance or secluded lifetimes in monasteries. These kind of dynamics would create strong pulls toward being alone or withdrawing from the world which would be a challenge as he faces the need moving in to 3rd stage individuated to integrate in to the larger society in ways that benefit others and going beyond the isolation of frog in the well self survival.

This individual could be someone who has a very compromised immune system perhaps even to the point of having developed a physical illness as a result of imbalances. Through the NN polarity point (6th) he might have to dig very deeply in to the causes and treatment of physical illness facing the spiritual lessions of surrender, healthy boundaries, faith and unity with Source.

Moving in to 3rd stage individuated will require this person to link up with the larger world in such a way that his established resources, values, survival skills can be used to benefit others. He could be a highly creative artistic indivdual who produces sacred art that blesses and moves others in many forms, he could be a psychic channeler who counsels others, he could be a healer, he could be a feng shui consultant or an interior designer or many other possibilities. He might create some type of independent practice.

This is all developed within the 3rd individuated stage and beyond. He is moving towards that in this life./b]

Whatever he does it will be important for him to balance time alone with time with others and it will be important to find a way to connect with the larger world in a way where he humbly recognizes he needs others yet at the same time knows with confidence that he has gifts to give that can benefit the larger society. He must move out of self isolation and live in balance with his own integrity within the greater Source. When in balance he will live from genuine principles of love and service to others.

This is what I have for now.

God Bless!Kora

Thanks for your efforts Kora - the general application with Pluto and the sn is all accurate, so great job on that account. However much of what you wrote was misapplied to a spiritual or late third individuated stage of evolution. I recommend you read through Jeff Green's descriptions of the individuated stages and if you wish to share any further analysis or ask any questions please do so.With loveAri Moshe

The 2nd house desires of this soul have been focused via a 12th house ego in the most recent past life. Taurus and Pisces form a natural sextile so there must be some ease of connection here, but it seems like the 2nd house desires of self-reliance and self-sufficiency could easily be in conflict with the 12th house function of dissolving all barriers. The nature of Pluto in the 2nd house to isolate and live within a safe little world of its own construction would be constantly asked to leave the world it had created behind, and open to the broader, limitless possibilities of the 12th house.

More accurately, the limitless possibilities of the 12th house has conditioned the 2nd house Pluto. And so we'd see that the weak point within this soul is linked to its own dreams, which may be quite expansive, however in the end have also keep the soul stagnant and limited in its growth relative to where these dreams did not add up to reality. Beyond that this can certainly imply an incredibly inspired and gifted individual - musically, artistically etc.

The soul at the end of the 2nd stage individuated would not necessarily be seeking a direct connection with source and yet would have been feeling that there is something more to life that they were not in touch with.

Yes

As the second house Pluto withdraws from the world to discover its own values and needs, the intention would have been for these to be aligned with higher will, not the self-serving desires of the ego “inflated with distinction” from source.

The 12th house south node is very supportive of the PPP 8th house – dissolving the barriers of the 2nd house to open up to others. With Pluto in the 2nd in the individuated state there is a strong sense of wanting to isolate and protect oneself against perceived threats from society (?).

Yes

There is also a strong sense of the self as a separate, self-sustaining entity. The 12th house ego would probably have been in strong denial that it is merely a part of a greater whole, and that the source of its security is not itself but only in going beyond itself to align with a higher power.

This soul could have had a tough time finding meaning in life as everything identified with and clung to for a sense of continuity and security would have eventually lost all meaning for the individual. There is the strong possibility that this soul chose some aspect of its life to focus all of its energy through in an attempt to create a sense of meaning for itself. Pluto in the 2nd would be very good at doing that – narrowing the focus and holding on to it tightly, and good at materializing whatever it focused on as meaningful. This soul could have very easily found itself stuck in a place of meaninglessness, yet refusing to let go of the past.

As the soul moves into the 3rd stage individuated it could find itself with the need to bring forth divinely inspired talents. The continued work will be to move past any limitations restricting the soul’s movement back to source. As the separating desire is reflected here in excessive isolation due to a feeling of needing to control one's resources in order to survive, the returning desires will be about realizing that some power greater than the ego is responsible for life and death and that security will be found by being rooted in faith and practicing more openness. They must realize that the source of the limitations is within themselves and consciously work on a personal connection with spirit.

More accurately, it would be about realizing that there is an evolutionary imperative to apply more effort to create the world they wish to see. At this evolutionary juncture this soul has likely experienced polarities of intense hope and intense disillusionment - all in the end impacting upon it's personal sense of self esteem and worth. It is learning more about reality, and that it cannot just expect or dream life to be how it wishes. That it cannot just stay in hiding, or stay self enclosed in whatever lifestyle it had otherwise been focused upon for its own survival and self preservation.

This could be true, as some of you said, if this soul was a part of a community or group that represented some sort of higher transcendent meaning that kept the soul limited and stagnant in its own evolution. This could also be true for a soul that has just been alone in their own individuated world of dong their own thing and having lots of dreams, but those dreams never going anywhere.

Effort is required to actualize and bring into fruition all of it's dreams. Then, relative to the 2nd house Pluto, this soul will utilize its resource and generate what it needs in its own life to become actively involved in applying its individuality into society so as to actually impact the consensus.

Thanks for hosting this practice thread - I greatly appreciate the opportunity to practice.

Peace,Emily

Thanks for your efforts Emily. With the exception of my couple clarifications, everything you said is accurate.With love,am

To those who still intend to post, feel free to post whenever you can as we likely wont move on till another week or so.

The main thing I am called to clarify here is that the 12th house sn implies the ego structure the soul has created as a focusing agent for its unresolved desires for self worth self reliance. In this evolutionary stage that has highly been linked to self preservation and protection - and thus this soul has clearly been isolating itself to a significant degree. The soul has been deeply immersed in all kinds of dreams and aspirations, AND also great disillusioment with the possibilty of futility, the loss of hope and meaning. The archetypal crescent sextile between the sn and Pluto imply how easy it would be for this soul to stay in its bubble of escapism and dreams that don't go anywhere.

So the limitations for this soul would, at the core, be linked to where this soul has placed ultimate meaning in life, and how that meaning has created the context for the narrow world it has lived in which has in the end has only limited its capacity to move its inner resources out into the world and to feel capable enough to actualize its dreams into reality.

If you have any further questions or desire to offer more interpretation, please feel free to do so.God bless and wishing everyone great peace and joy today, Love,am

It comes into this life knowing what is right and what is wrong and will adopt for itself some idealized conduct and will judge others who do not reflect its standards. Cyclically it will analyze and judge itself until it learns that "ultimate" judgement is based upon its intentions and intentions reflect its desires, so it is important that it focuses on its desires in order to understand its intentions. The inner judgement makes it aware of what is preventing it to become perfect in relation to its standard of conduct that it has for itself. It will keep on perfecting its standard of right conduct so that it recognizes any incorrect desire and behavior of others, this way it will not affect for itself any incorrect behavior of others through its lack of judgement or discrimination.

And I found that JWG does in fact talk about judgement relative to this archetype. Not judgment in terms of ethical standards like we would find in Capricorn, but judgment in terms of seeing reality from the point of view of the Absolute: which is to judge others according to inner intention, not on outcome: Here's what JWG writes from the book itself:

Quote

Others will manifest this as attempting to help everyone, whether or not anyone wants their help. This type will judge no one, as if judging is to be avoided altogether. 12th house Pluto people need to learn what judgment really means, and how to exercise proper judgment. The lesson is that ultimately judgment is based on intention, not on outcome. They must learn to look at their own and others’ intentions, and judge accordingly.

INNER judgment is necessary because it becomes the vehicle to get closer to the ideal of right conduct. They key is self-forgiveness, and then forgiveness of others. The resolve to improve is the ultimate standard to judge by. They must use a standard of judgment when considering others, for not judging at all leaves them open to adopting the incorrect behaviors of others since they have no sense of what is appropriate or inappropriate, relative to their own intention.

I wanted to let you know I still intend to post on the 12th house south node and hopefully will have by the end of today. I had wanted to read the 12th house Pluto chapter before writing anything- I have read that chapter, but just haven't made the time to get all my thoughts together in writing- but I intend for this to happen today, tomorrow at the latest.

Hi everyone - so now we will move to add the planetary ruler of the sn. This is placing the ruler of the sn in the 11th house. Remember that the ruler of the sn has been the facilitator for that kind of identity - in total it provides greater context for what kind of identity that was created in the past, and thus what kinds of emotional memories are being carried from the past into the current life.

The ruler of the sn, in combination with the sn itself, describes the basic egocentric structure the soul had created in prior lives that has serves as the focusing agent for the desires of the soul.

For those who still wish to post on just the south node, feel free to do so - or you may just choose to include the sn and its ruler at this point.

There's obviously no time limit for these posts - however so as to be constrictive and intentional, please let me know if you intend to post.With love,Ari Moshe

I have a question about how we think about the ruler (11th house) in comparison to the 12th where the sn is...does the ruler carry greater weight than the 12th? Or, are we just adding subtle shades of color to a basic portrait (12th/2nd Pluto) which has already been painted?.....let me know if you don't understand the question....I am just trying to figure out a little more clearly what is actually meant by the "facilitator". Thanks.

Hi Kora, thanks for your question.A way to think of it is that every sign is naturally conditioned by its planetary ruler. So if there is any activity happening in the 12th house, then the ruler of that sign,its placement and aspects, give us more information regarding the actual nature of that 12th house.

In this case we are looking at the sn, which signifies a past mode of operation - a prior life ego nature, within which is contained all kinds of soul memories that are being brought forth into the current life. The ruler of this south node provides more context for how that identity was shaped - it fills in the details.

So with the chart we are working with here the sn in the 12th has a general correlation with an identity that has been focused upon finding ultimate, higher meaning in life, and along with that disillusionment. How and where has that specifically occurred? The answer will be through all 11th house associations.

On page 13, in the first chapter in the "Pluto and the nodal axis" section Jeff Green gives a basic definition of planetary rulership relative to the nodes and offers an example. Please feel free to continue to ask about this in whatever way you need to. And of course any effort will be met with feedback.

Putting the ruler of the 12th house south node in the 11th house would, I think, signify that this soul definitely could have been involved in a spiritual community which somehow blocked its evolution. Or perhaps the soul felt so different and unable to relate to society and other people that it completely withdrew into its own dream world.

Perhaps the soul had dreams of an ideal society which it tried to live out but failed because other people did not share the vision or it wasn’t really relevant to the needs of the society at large. Would the ruler in the 11th house show that the soul would have been trying to manifest its dreams from a very detached place? Where there would have been more success if the dreams were linked to more of the actual context of the world the soul was living in? And were coming from a place of openness and connectedness with other people (and other people's resources?).

I think that the ruler in the 11th could also signify that the soul experienced the disillusionment it faced as significantly traumatic. When all of the soul’s energy was directed towards something that ultimately ends up completely losing meaning for it, the consequence could have been extreme. Perhaps linked to survival itself.