Abnormal (or aneuploid) means a chromosome, or part of, is missing or there are multiple versions that should not be there.

Most aneuploid embryos will either not implant, miscarry or result in a genetic abnormality (degree depends on the actual chromosomal error).

Blastocyst Frozen & stays at clinic.

Results usually take approx. 2 weeks.

Some clinics biopsy & test after each stimulation cycle.

Other clinics require a minimum number of embryos over X stimulation cycles. Then a batch of biopsies sent for testing.

If you have frozen embryos, some clinics will thaw, biopsy & refreeze so that these can be PGS tested.

Higher rates of pregnancy since only Euploid embryos are transferring in a frozen cycle.

Approximate success rate of 80% (clinic & age dependent).

PGS is different from specific genetic screening. In specific genetic screening, a specific genetic condition is tested for (usually because of family history or previous pregnancy). With PGS, the number and completeness of all chromosomes are tested.

We're often asked why we chose PGS. We always say it's a personal decision and we'd never suggest to another woman that you should do it. Here are the reasons that are often given by women on this forum who choose PGS (not every reason applies to every woman):

A lower rate of miscarrying with PGS transferred embryos.

Was recommended by the consultant because of maternal age or previous multiple miscarriages.

Was recommended by consultant due to concerns regarding egg quality.

Don't want to risk a fetus with a life-limiting genetic condition.

Potentially get pregnant faster because not going through multiple cycles of stimulation, miscarriage, waiting to stim again.

Potentially cost effective as only euploid embryos are transferred so not paying for transfers that will never work.

These pages have good info on day 5 blastocyst development and grading:

Mosaic embryos are not chromosomal normal. They have lower success rates if transferred and genetic testing is advised of any pregnancy. Mosaic embryos can self-correct during development. Technology isn't advanced enough to predict which Mosaic embryos will self-correct and which will not.

Thanks everyone no offence taken here at all love to hear how everyone is getting on. Especially the positive stories.I'm on day 7 stimulation will be day 9 Monday having the scan but as I said feeling no pain or pressure either left or right side my amh is 1.05 so it's poor.. most likely I'll need back to back stimulation even if that works.Dh not on for egg donation my friend changed my mind about it recently with a debate of egg donation v's adoption. As well we're in the fortune position of having a little girl wish I'd went back to ivf sooner after having her :(CailinInUK think you'll know best and you can decide Monday please God the quality will be there

Tweet, the run-up to FET is so stressful. Very hard not to worry about all the eventualities. Like Xanthe said, do what you can to distract yourself. I found watching lots of Netflix / daily meditations and trying to keep busy helped.

Worrivfer and Caitlin, sorry to hear you're both having stim issues. Caitlin, I too triggered with Buserelin as I have polycystic ovaries. No idea what my level was I'm afraid. They got 31 eggs, 30 of which fertilised. 12 made it to testing and 7 came back PGS normal. I was at risk of OHSS but luckily didn't get it - ate a really high protein diet and huge amount of electrolytes in the run-up and post EC which seemed to help. Can your clinic trigger you with Buserelin instead? Worrivfer, will be keeping everything crossed for you that your scan goes well.

Cailin, I was in a similar situation to you when I had my egg collection. I have PCOS and they had me on a very low dose which meant I had lots of follicles but not many big ones. I had to trigger with buserelin and I actually made them scan me the morning of the collection to make sure I had enough that were big enough to go ahead. The ended up collecting 25 eggs which was a big surprise but I got OHSS and had to be drained twice. It took me 3-4 months to recover. On the plus side I got a good number of embryos and have a few PGS normal ones. But I'm not sure if I would go through EC again after the experience.

Hi Cailin. I. Can't remember what size my follicles were when I triggered but I had 20-30 eggs of varying sizes. My e2 was 23000!! My clinic said to trigger with burselin which avoided ohss and I came out with 20 eggs, 19 fertilised. 5 blasts suitable for pgs and freeze and 2 normals. I got very mild ohss but they gave me a drug to prevent it. I didn't have a fresh transfer as was doing pgs.

Cailin thanks very much. Cailin in my last cycle I had 27 eggs collected and got one PGS normal embryo. The cycle before that I had 10 collected, 8 of which fertilised and out of those I had no PGS normal embryos. Is your doctor saying that with too many eggs they could be bad quality? It worked the reverse for me.

Worrivfer so sorry it's not looking as good as you hoped. I will be thinking of you. Fingers crossed it's a good weekend for you and also sorry if by chance my message offends, I just wanted to make the point to Cailin that lots of eggs doesn't always mean bad quality.

WorrIVFer - our messages crossed in cyber space! Looks like we're both worried about our responses. Everyone's different so there may well be growth going on in there unbeknownst to you. Keep going til Monday and hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised. What day are you on now? xx

Hi ladies, I'm on Day 9 of stims and had a monitoring scan this morning. 19 follicles were measured, ranging from 17(2), 16(2), 15 (2) and 14 to 10mm(12). This is the most I've ever had, probably due to high dose stims (450IU). My E2 is very high at 12600pmol/L. The nurse called to say trigger tonight (with half dose) and so like any crazy lady would, I said I wasn't comfortable triggering tonight as my follies weren't very big and I'd get few eggs. The Doctor (not my normal consultant) came on the phone and explained her concerns about OHSS and if we carried on stimming, cycle could be cancelled or I would have to coast with associated risk of poor eggs. She reluctantly said to have a think and call back!!

After much deliberation with DH, we've decided we'd like to carry on stimming over the weekend and come in on Monday for a scan/bloods. Are we mad? Am I going to get OHSS? The clinic doesn't give HCG trigger if E2 over 20,000 and I reckon I'll hit that by Monday. :(

I had written an update post yesterday but deleted it as I didn't want to offend WorrIVFer who is concerned about lack of response. Now I'm concerned about over-responding :(

Xanthe and Iz it's great to hear you are both well. I think I am like you Xanthe in my wildest dreams I don't think I would actually believe it if it happened. I had a good week and was distracting myself ok but today I am nervous again, just nervous that it won't work. Sure only time will tell

Ah that's great to hear Xanthe! I'm 12 weeks next Tuesday, been having weekly scans and everything looking good so far, fingers crossed. Will be a bit of a wrench coming off all the immune/support meds next week but will be delighted to reach that milestone.

Well ladies I have gotten the green light for transfer next Thursday in cu*e in Prague. Delighted of course to move forward but feeling apprehensive as this is the stage that has always let us down before. I just hope this time will be different.

WorrIVFer- glad you're started too despite the really poor timing of AF :-/ I've read good things about oestrogen priming so fingers crossed it works for you! Thank you and Tweet for the cyst info. I'll find out on Weds at my Day 6 stim scan! xxx

Hi CailinInUK, my cycle arrived at 4 am this morning (very heavy after the estradiol) just love that...not! So I start stimulation tomorrow day 2 and I don't have a scan and bloods until next Monday week and they'll see how I'm going from there. I really hope I respond!! I had an ovarian cyst,they can leave it providing it is causing no problem and when you go for egg collection they will put a fine needle through it it may come back again hard to tell mine hasn't so far...Keep me posted on your progression xxx

Cailin on a previous cycle I had a cyst show up and they drained it that day. That was a little bit painful but I am sure it must be a very small cyst. Am sure they are used to seeing this all the time.

I am started medication for transfer. I have a scan next Thursday so we will see how all looks then. If all is ok I will likely have transfer in Prague a week later.

WorrIVFer - I hope you got the go ahead to start yesterday. I did, however there was a fluid filled follicle on my down reg scan, which concerned me as it's never happened before. Blood test came back with ok E2 levels (56 are pg/ml) so was given the ok to start stims last night. I've read that it's quite common but already concerned that my right ovary won't respond due to the cyst', if that's the right term. Anyone else have this?

Tweet - it's great you're on countdown now. Take extra special care of yourself emotionally and physically, fill every day with relaxation and happiness :)

Loislane - sorry you're feeling sad. I guess we all expect better results. But you do have one normal, which is great news! Not sure what age you are or whether you are planning to have more than one other child but you could cycle again to try get more normals while the going's good, if you have the emotional, physical and financial capacity as it is tough to go again and again.

Cailin thanks for that. Delighted to hear you and worrivfer are on similar timelines.

Loislane1. Welcome. I am in a very similar situation to you. I had one PGS normal out of 7 day 5 embryos. I hate saying it but I felt that disappointment. It's great to have one, if I had none it would have been the end of the road for my own eggs but the fantastic thing is that I know I can still produce PGS normal embryos so that I am grateful. I think I was sad in that I knew it will be tough from here on in. Sad that this only gives me one opportunity to have a baby and the fear of what happens if it does not work. However I am so glad I did PGS as I obviously would have had a lot more failed cycles without it.

Fingers crossed our happy ever after is coming soon ladies.

I got my af yesterday so all going well I hope to do transfer in about 3 weeks. I am going to try to fill my mind with lots of stuff and really not think about it too much.

Hi ladies I've been on another chat group but this one is now relevant to me! 2nd picsi and had pgs done on our four embies that made it to day five. One has come back normal. Have to wait til Friday week for a consult with geneticist in Prague. My minds going mad, cause evidently I don't know what the results mean. Don't know what I was expecting but it wasnt this feeling of stress and disappointment even though we have one good one! Is it normal to feel sad about the ones that aren't okay?

Hi Tweet, I totally understand your fear. I also fear getting a step closer in case it's snatched away at the next step. But you've done the hardest part in all likelihood, and you've been super patient with all the extra tests and treatment done to prepare for the FET. I hope this gives you some peace and comfort and you can allow yourself to get a little excited about the prospect.

All being well, I will start stims on Friday if my down reg scan goes ok! I think consultant pulled the trigger' too early on a previous cycle so will be watching out for that this time! She triggers when three above 17mm. I had a little bunch at 15, which didn't have mature eggs (assuming biggest did)..

WorrIVFer, sorry to hear you've had such a tough time of late. I'm also due to start stims on the 26th so I'll be there every step with you! I'm on long protocol but always wondered if I'd do better on short too.

Worrivfer sorry for only responding now. You have been through a lot. Great to hear you have a precious little girl. Which doctor were you with in Si*s? I was with dr har*ity but with dr lyu*a and she is amazing I think. I so hope you get good results this time. I have had a really long wait since my last cycle in July. I had to wait a month for PGS results then I decided to do the era and that was in September then I had a hysteroscopy at the end of November and then Christmas held everything up plus I had to heal after the hysteroscopy as they removed a septum. Some people go straight to transfer after a cycle so I was just held up doing the different things. I hope it all goes really fast and well for you.

Cailin to be honest I am feeling a bit terrified about the transfer, not the physical part but the thought of another failure. I know I should not think like that. I was even discussing with hubby this morning and he is going to stArt clomid again next week. He wAs previously in that for sperm production. He will start again just in case we need to cycle again in April time. I cannot get myself any way excited but that said I haven't thought of it too much in the last few days. I just need to say to myself that we have done everything and it's out of myrral control now.

We had looked at adopting and honestly I would love to do it but we attended an open day about it and unfortunately as my hubby is a good bit older than me, realistically we cannot adopt. If one partner is over 45 it's very difficult. We are too old and realistically would never qualify. It's a real shame.

Are you intending to go ahead and start another cycle again? Well good luck with it all.

Thanks so much for the welcome and all the info on your history. I started reading this thread when you, Phoenix, were active before you had a break from here so I wondered how it panned our for you and so happy you've got two normals! I related to you lots, not least because you could match me for all your research! I analyse and research everything, probably to be expected as I'm an engineer!

I too was told by the egg collection consultant on two of my cycles that I may have ovulated beforehand. However, my main consultant disagreed!?! The common thing for those cycles was that I was on relatively more Menopur to Gonal F and that's the only thing I can put it down to - the LH in the Menopur, which I'm minimising going forwards.We're doing ICSI too and I believe that's pretty standard with PGS and PGD to avoid possible DNA contamination. Low fertilisation after ICSI is more often down to the eggs as it is the sperm, apparently. Just like you said after I wrote this Tweet. (Ours has ranged from 65% to 100%.)

Tweet (37 eggs-wow!), glad you asked the donor question as I wondered how I would take it. DH and I long more than anything for our own genetic child, it's really important to us. I've not much desire to be pregnant', as such, already terrified of giving birth!! If we can't have our own, I would consider adoption but DH not so keen. My opinion on DE may change if we're still in same boat in a couple of years.. Consultant has not yet mentioned anything about quitting or DE. Even if she did, we'll still carry on for at least another three goes, as tough as it is. Crazy as it sounds, we need a number of normals as 50%, in theory, will have to be discarded due to genetic risk at PGD. It's such an uphill battle :( We've had four blasts tested high risk for HD (before we started PGS testing) so not transferred. Who knows, some of them could have been normals.. I hope so. I feel stupid saying this now, but six normals out of five or so banking cycles, before sending for PGD, was our target at the outset! That's looking very unlikely now :-/

I wish you all the luck in the world for your upcoming FETs, you've come so far. How are you both feeling about it? May this be your year too! For those not there yet, I feel your pain. Stay strong and be kind to yourselves. Thanks so much for your welcome and thoughtful words (brought a tear). I'll definitely stick around :) xx

Cailin welcome to the thread. This thread has offered me so much support in the last year. We did two cycles this year with Cube after having already had three failed icsis in Ireland. We got one PGS normal embryo from two cycles. Across the two cycles we had 37 eggs, 7 day 5 blastocysts and just one normal back, however like Phoenix we have male factor issues but clinics still always insist that it's predominantly the egg issue that causes abnormal embryos but sperm issues can complicate it.

I am so sorry to hear about the additional issue you have. I understand it must feel quite deflating as you really have two sets of testing to go through, both PGS and PGd. I too am 39 and it's scary, I stArted on this journey of trying to conceive at 33. The time passes so quickly with nothing to show only plenty of tears.

You have been through a difficult time and each failed cycle really leaves it mark, as I know well. I know it's maybe not a question you want to think of but is donor a remote possibility in your mind? I have said Cailin that if this transfer fails I am going to do 3 more cycles back to back and then we will need to move on to donor. Although I wish dearly I can have our own genetic baby, I have no doubt after all the failed cycles that I would love that baby every bit the same as our own genetic baby. I just think failed cycles ebb so much at your soul. This is your year, at 39 you can still make normal embryos. I have heard of people up to mid 40s create normal embryos. I have such strong admiration for all the ladies in here, I think we almost feel like a little family. I wish you so much luck Cailin, please stay on here and keep us up to date.

We were very lucky that in our 1st cycle, we produced 2 day 5 blastocysts of with 1 tested PGS normal, aka euploid.

This was great because from the consultant's perspective it was positive confirmation that we were able to creat a euploid embryo.

However, it gave us a false sense that euploid was possible every cycle.

The next 2 cycles - no euploid embryos. Hell, next 2 cycles, we only generated a total of 1 day 5 blastocyst so we found these cycles incredibly disheartening. We were unlucky that cycle 2, my OH gave a bad sperm sample while I prematurely ovulated on cycle 3 so maybe those 2 cycles shouldn't count.

All through, our consultant kept saying that this was all normal for trying to come out with Euploid embryos and most couples experienced cycles with none; that we'd been incredibly lucky to get 1 on the first cycle; and that he wasn't worried because he knew we could create them so it was just a matter of keep cycling until we got more.

Fourth and last cycle, we had 2 day 5 blastocysts and 1 turned out PGS normal.

So, in total, 2 euploid embryos from 4 ICSI cycles!

Slightly different case because at least we started with 1 euploid so we knew it was possible and that does help.

Also different because we did ICSI. From my research, ICSI always produces less euploid embryos as well as less day 5 blastocysts. The theory is that when conceiving naturally, only the fittest sperm (genetically best) survive the race to reach the egg in the Fallopian tube. Even in IVF, sperm are placed around the egg, so there's a mini race for the first to fertilize the egg.

For ICSI, the embryologist picks the sperm to insert. The only challenge that sperm faces is to visually look the best out of a very small number so much greater chance that the sperm has fragmentation or genetically missing or surplus chromosome that will generate aneuploid if they even fertilize at all or even make it to day 5.

It's hard, but I think all you can do is listen to your consultant. They'll say when they believe it's futile and in the meantime take all the supplements, eat low carb high protein, and exercise to get oxegen rich blood flowing to your ovaries to feed your follicles.

May I join?! I've been a lurker for a little while and really admire the support and advice you give to each other, through the good and bad times.

We are going through PGD IVF to avoid passing on a genetic condition to our babies (50:50). So, ironically, we started out with no known fertility issues. But here we are, five cycles down and no baby, not even near.

I live in England but from Ireland and I'm with Care Nottingham for PGD+PGS. For those unaware, PGD is not quite PGS as the PGD is to identify the embryos at risk of a specific genetic condition. For the embryos clear of the condition, PGS is normally performed on the remaining ones, though this wasn't offered to us for our first NHS cycle. My DH is at risk of Huntington's Disease (though not tested), a late onset neurodegenerative disease, hence why we're going through this. We found this out just after we got married in 2014 when his dear dad was diagnosed, and just before we were going to try make babies the fun way. After a long drawn out wait, we've had three rounds free on the NHS but no luck (two failed transfers that were not PGS tested). We are now in the middle of four/five(?whatever it takes?) banking cycles privately with Care and due to start cycle #6 (banking cycle #3) in next couple of weeks (currently towards end of long protocol down reg). From first two banking cycles, we got just four blastocysts, three abnormal, one no result'. Before banking, I asked if we can swap the order of PGD+PGS testing as we clearly have an aneuploidy issue, given my ripe old age of (just turned!) 39. So our plan (like we can plan these things!) is to hopefully get some euploid blasts together before PGD testing, which is then 50:50 on whether they're free of the genetic condition.

My fertility stats on paper are fairly ok for my age (AMH 12.6, AFC 25, FSH ~7) but so far the few embryos free of HD since we started PGS have been aneuploid. I'm praying we can actually make some euploid embryos.

My heart goes out to all you lovely ladies going through this journey. May it only be a matter of a little bit more time before we all have the families we are fighting for. It's a lonely old journey and though I'm on a similar UK forum, there is some extra comfort in going through this with my co-patriots! I hope I can contribute and help - I've been a Google fiend on this subject since starting!

Has anyone gone through several cycles of abnormal cycles to eventually get a normal or two? I'm happy to carry on cycling if there's hope. I get mixed messages on the net. Some say if two cycles are all abnormal, give up; others say every cycle is different and you can go from all abnormal to normal in the next cycle...

We just had a stimulation cycle in December and they were fine with doing a FET cycle immediately after.

So 21 days after getting the bleed post egg collection, I had the scratch and started downregulation injections.

It's my first FET, but my understanding is that transfer will be around day 21 where day 1 is the day you get the bleed after starting your down-regulation. My cycle after my egg collection bleed is always longer than my usual 29 day cycle so it's actually been 35 days since my egg collection bleed (which was 5 days post egg collection). So it's still the best part of 2 months between last egg collection and transfer.

So, I suppose as long as you get your PGS results before day 21 of your cycle so you know whether you have a PGS normal or not to transfer, is critical. I doubt they'll do a scratch or let you start your downregulation drugs before they know whether you have a PGS normal embryo or not.

It takes a few days to get them to send you the transfer protocol so if you want to do a transfer, you'd need to have an appointment with the consultant to set this in motion BEFORE your PGS results are available.

For us, we already had a PGS normal embryo frozen from a previous cycle so we actually had a meeting with the consultant less than a week after our egg collection from the most recent cycle to get the transfer cycle organized and set in motion.

Thanks for the well wishes No tweet66 I've never done pgs before... I did started stimulation in October but I did not respond to that.... it was a long protocol something I had never been on before I'd only 2 very small follicles. I knew it tbh I'd no pain really.. and I've always had stimulation pain...

Our story I'm 39 dh 43We started TTC over 10-11 years ago to us it didn't matter what came first children or marriage... marriage 2009 came and went but no children we did our first round of ivf gal* fertility clinic 2013 (to say I dislike this clinic wud be understating it) 1 failed ivf after SEVERAL cancellations... so we moved to the si*ms may 2013 had isci and transfer august 2013 and our precious lg was born may 2014...silly I suppose I thought mother nature would kick in...after all I'd carried a baby etc... did napro big regret now as all the time my amh was heading to the floor!! Went back to the si*ms Nov 2016 failed ivf after back to back stimulation April 2017. .. 2 blastocyst transferred day 5. Overall I wasn't happy with the si*ms at one stage a nurse left me crying in a room on my own as I was about to get bad news that I had not responded to stimulation... I'm a health care professional I would never do that to anyone..

We followed doctor O to b*acon cf I failed to respond in October to have any eggs.

So Wednesday I started estradiol for short cycle with stimulation injections starting the 26th depending on my period.

Just looking as well how long after pgs stimulation cycle did you have transfera very conscious of my age!!

Last amh 1.05!!!

Thanks for the support sorry I did not respond sooner we had an anniversary mass..

I actually just said to my partner last night not to worry because as soon as the menopause does hit, I'm gonna take all the hormones!

The down regulation is simulating menopause and between the serious lack of any sex drive (I have zero interest - I know we're not supposed to be doing it anyways at this time so it's convenient for now) and the buserelin weepiness, I want all the hormones when that time comes.

It's a huge relief. Not only because now I have a spare if the thaw fails or the FET fails but also because myself and my partner are both only children. That means any only child would effectively, eventually, be the last surviving member of the family unless they are lucky enough to find a partner and have kids of their own which is in no way guaranteed. I have a desperate need to give them a sibling so that each is not alone in the world.

Phoenix that is wonderful. You have had a tough journey so it's great to see light at the end of the tunnel. Well done. Great to have the security of a 2nd embryo.

Worrivfer oh I feel so much for you. Have you done PGS before? Sorry if I already asked that question before? I know how it looks when starting. We have spent a full year trying to get PGS normal embryos. I didn't think it would take so long but your journey hopefully won't be as long. We just needed lots of extra tests an ERa and hysteroscopy and then Xmas set us back another two months. We will be all wishing you so much luck on this journey. It's tough to have bereavements. I know that feeling too. Hopefully you will have good news soon.

Starting meds again today (estradiol) on the first step in trying to get eggs-embryos I could have to do back to back cycles to even get enough eggs....so it will be an even longer process..I really hope this is a positive year for us we've (like most on here) been through a lot but my poor husband has had a lot of breavements in his family and some very young... so it would be just lovely for us to be able to say that there's going to be a new addition (wishful thinking)

Thanks Xanthe, I have thyroid issue too. It's borderline but no doubt has a bearing on things too. Glad it's all going great for you.

Hopefully thanks for the good wishes. Hopefully things get moving for you too.

Patsy, like hopefully I had a septum removed too before Xmas so worth asking the doctor if it's worth looking at again. The immunes side and Chicago bloods may give you more answers. Also the other test I had was an era test. It's to check the receptivity of the uterus. No harm to ask your doctor if he would recommend it. It's great to have 6 embryos and hopefully they can get to the bottom of it.