Apparently, you can still purchase them...you just won't find freebie ones on the web... The date is given, so at least that's a good start. Of
course, no guarantees that it's not simply been ceased.

I saw the photos (and had them) many moons ago (and many formats and reloads ago), and I wasn't so good about backing things up back then (unless it
related to gaming, and then I'd have it of course...

I've also compared the photo to old high resolution aerial photos from 1959 and 1952, obtained from the USGS

1. Just as USGS maps of Area 51, the White House, etc. These are all "scrubbed" before going to the public. This is even acknowledged by the
government in the interests of National Security.

2. In reference to the latrine, etc. on Papoose Peak. If nothing is there, then why a latrine?

3. You can clearly see the roads heading there on the latest images I just put up...

4. The land is still owned by the government, and the best place to hide something is often in plain site.

5. The "tongue" area in question is still within the restricted airspace zone.

6. Even according to Lazar, the times of the VERY few test flights are often in twilight hours, so unlikely any of the flyboys will see anything, or
at least nothing in detail.

7. Given the description of the guards at S-4 as compared to Groom, it is a different force than the rest of Area 51. It corresponds more to the
fabled "Blue Team" said to recover UFOs. Given this, and S-4's rumored role, it isn't surprising that the government would furnish a security
manual omitting this location, for a lawsuit.

8. I haven't really seen much about the Greenpeace crossing, however, supposedly one of those doing so, did comment on stationary lights being there,
implying facilities... www.ufomind.com...

According to the few news stories on this, the route was never really given, only that they were caught on the Yucca flat.

Well I have read some about the base now and I relly do belive that it does exist. Thanx for the links and lets fiend the picture we taked about. And
is there more evidence that they have ufo, other than lazar claim.

Yeah Gaz lol i didnt need you to debunk it (made me look stupid lol) but i just wanted you guys to read up on the satellite pics what you were
talking about in the earlier threads lol!

Sorry, missed your "don't mind the title" disclaimer, but still, I felt it prudent to point out the numerous holes in the site's article as it
attempts to say a base can't be there.

To the one asking for more sources than Lazar...

Well, we know that according to the military, there isn't a facility where S-4 supposedly is. Even in papers acknowledging Area 51 (such as for the
lawsuit), there is no mention of a facility there. However, we also have....(in addition to Lazar....)

1. Other witnesses seeing fixed lights (which hint at an installation or building, not a moving patrol jeep, etc.) in the location.
2. Satellite photos (see my last ones) showing roads leading to Papoose, yet supposedly nothing is there.
3. Expanded land siezes to further seal off that area from onlookers. If trying to hide Groom Lake, there's no need, as the mountain does that!

Given the above, with or without Lazar's testimony, you have hints that there is some kind of secret facility there. Furthermore, it's SO secret,
that even when admitting to parts of Area 51, the government is still clamping down on it through ommissions. That should tell you something....

Yea I do belive that the is a base there but that there is alien made ufo's there I doent belive. Proboly becouse I doent belive that alien have been
here... But as you said it is clearly there is something there.

As in this link www.abovetopsecret.com... there is a hig quality dirt road that is going out there. And that is becouse there is
buses going out there almost every day. But I cant see a road going out there. Like this other ones going around the base

And I know that I am sceptic... I do belive that the is something there but Doent know what or where..... Like this pic there is not going road to tha
base. And If it is a facility I doent belive that there is alien made Ufo's there. I am one of them that doent belive it before they see it. Or have
sure proov

Yea I do belive that the is a base there but that there is alien made ufo's there I doent belive. Proboly becouse I doent belive that alien
have been here... But as you said it is clearly there is something there.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is there then? I suppose the next best conclusion would be experimental VTOL aircraft (since there aren't
easily visable runways on Papoose)? Still, would that be top secret enough to omit from the Security Manual? Of course it's possible, but then
you'd also have to completely dismiss Lazar's testimony (which for many is easy to do).

As for aliens not being here, I'd recommend a nice long visit to majesticdocuments.com... and you can read as much government document evidence
as your heart desires....

There is a rumor that secret solar energy research is conducted there.

Site Four was a testing location for purloined Soviet radar equipment.

Maybe this, and for the oter opicture in your last post, Isent it a blit to small road for a buss to drive ofen?? but clerly there is a road there
yes. I think I am a bit to sceptic becouse all the hoax that is out there on the web but... Now I will read www.majesticdocuments.com... and than
come back. The Image you said about the bus.. Was it youst out side where the hangars of s4 is??

There were two. One image showed a dust trail along the road to S-4 (this was on the western side of the mountain and prior to reaching the lakebed).
Another showed a fenced in area, with a few rectangles with rounded edges which looked like parked buses. This was in the darker area than the
lakebed, but right near the mountain. On the last linked map (the closest one of Papoose), it's labelled as the "Staging Area" by
Anomalies.net.

Wouldn't that be great? Unfortunately, you may recall the Guest Speaker event with John Lear. Lear was pretty close to Lazar, and stated that Lazar
has pretty much tried to distance himself from the whole UFO circuit, and is now concentrating on his fledgling technology company. I seriously doubt
he'd do it. Still, no harm in asking I suppose....

If really curious, do a google on Lazar Interview, as there are quite a few floating around out there on the web. Chances are, most of the questions
you can think of, have likely been asked at one time or another.

It's interesting to mention, that he's taken polygraphs on all of this, and has always passed, so whether you believe him or not, you cannot doubt
his motivations here....he believes everything he says to be true.

All the alin and Ufo thing is hard for me to belive. Maybe becouse I doent know much about it and there is no prof. And I am a bit to sceptic, I am
afraid that when I start to belive it is a hoax. I did downlode some of his intervies on mp3. Tnx for the tips. Why do you belive in alien and what
lazar said. Arent you afraid that it is a hoax?

I believe in aliens mostly stemming from sighting as a child. It was quite a spectacular sighting and of numerous craft. Having grown up around
military aircraft, I have a good idea of what we are capable of, and this wasn't it. I've detailed this sighting elsewhere here, so I won't rehash
it again here, but it's in a few threads here on ATS.

So, since that time I've pretty much had a hobby of reading everything I could get a hold of about the subject. No doubt, there is a ton of crap out
there. However, there are some things that simply ring true. Also, there is simply too much evidence, some of it in the form of official government
documents (such as the Hoover memo recently posted, or the SOM 1-01 Manual), and some in gun camera footage, or from the testimony of high-ranking
military officers. The Roswell case is another big factor as it showed me how big this really is (i.e. big enough to require the complete overhaul of
the department of defense literally overnight).

Simply put, I've seen, read, and heard enough to know that we are not alone, and indeed are being visited. Now, does that mean I believe every
crackpot who claims to have taken a joyride to Venus? Certainly not. I do try to keep an open mind on them, until simply too much tips the scales
into the hoax area.... Lazar is kind of an exception to my rule. There is more than enough to tip the scales to hoax here. However, I've heard
rumors of "the Hangar" at Groom from other Lockheed brats...as a child. His info matches several other sources that he very likely did not know
about (such as the SOM 1-01 manual, the Hill abduction case, etc.). Nothing in his history suggests he had an interest in UFOs prior to the business
with S-4. Then there is corraborating evidence that there is indeed a facility where he said there is. Furthermore, there is the W-2 from the DNI,
even with a coding of MAJ on it (likely for Majestic). Also, there is the way the interior of the craft as described, matches the interior described
by General Twining. Again, unlikely he was aware of this source. My common sense tells me Lazar is a hoax, but my gut and instincts are telling me
otherwise.

However, even IF Lazar is bogus, it still does nothing to erode the other evidence....which in my mind, is overwhelmingly in support of such alien
visitation....

Nice story an comvinsing too. But it is very har to begin belive in alien when you have deny it all the time. Do you have a pic of a alien or Ufo that
you know are real. I have printet out many pages and some sound interview about lazar now and Im going to lisent to it when I go to bed

If I KNEW them to be real, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I was in 4th grade at the time of my sighting, so I didn't have the
presence of mind to grab a camera, hehe... Seeing the other kids of the compound out in their jammies, in the snow, with all of us staring up at the
mountain at the light show, tends to kind of make you think of little else, hehe...

Photos are pretty easy to fake. Also, they can be misidentifications very easily too. There are some gun-camera films of foo-fighters from WWII,
there are some gun-camera films recently from the Mexican Air Force. There are several photos from the 50's (i.e. before it was fairly easy to
manipulate them), etc. that all seem extremely real.

Because of such reasons, I tend to rely more on government docs (which though they can be faked, many can also be easily authenticated), and expert
witnesses such as pilots, high-ranking military officers, etc. as witnesses. Such individuals are used to aerial phenomenon, and are less prone to
make misidentifications. Also, if something was going on (as I suspect it was/is), then such individuals often would have been in a position to know
such things. I also place a lot of value in when the government constantly trips themselves up. Such examples include the recent posting of the
Hoover memo, the laughable Air Force Case Closed on Roswell, or when Edward Ruppelt, former head of Project Blue Book, publicly announced that the
entire project was turned to basically identify all sightings, no matter how ridiculous the identification was.

This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.