As the Roman Catholic head Jorge Bergoglio, who is known as “Pope Francis,” traveled to the United States this past week for a six-day visit, megachurch leaders Rick Warren, T.D. Jakes and Joel Osteen expressed their excitement and support for the papal pomp and circumstance.

On Wednesday, T.D. Jakes of The Potter’s House posted a photo on social media of himself and his wife at the White House, outlining that he had been invited by Barack Obama to be among the VIP’s welcoming Francis to the nation’s capital.

“A special thanks to President Obama for his VIP invitation to attend such a historical event,” he wrote. “As the world watches this international figure move through our country, let’s pray that the pope’s journey is safe!”

Jakes acknowledged that he has theological differences with the pontiff, but said that he saw the matter as one of loving his neighbor.

“At a time when so little is said positive about faith in our country, let’s pray for his safe passage regardless of our differences of views about faith. It is our love that’s on trial here and our understanding of the question, ‘Who is my neighbor?'” he wrote. “By the way, my wife First Lady Serita Jakes and I, tried to represent our faith, church and country with dignity and respect!”

EEW Magazine notes that Jakes’ comments are not his first expressing ecumenism with the Roman Catholic religion.

“There are many outreaches that we have common ground about,” he told News One in 2013. “I think one of the great mistakes in how we rationalize things in this country currently is that we have a tendency to perpetuate the ideology that we should focus on our differences, rather than to focus on our commonalities.”

“When I think of the Roman Catholic Church and their belief in Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection, the fact that they serve the poor, the fact that they’re interested in education, there are many things that we can gather around and agree upon,” Jakes added.

On Wednesday, the Texas-based author and speaker also uploaded a photo of himself with Saddleback Church leader and “Purpose Driven Life” author Rick Warren as they waited together at the White House for the pontiff’s arrival.

“Sharing a fascinating moment in history with my brother @pastorrickwarren! So good to see you,” he wrote. “A very diverse crowd of VIP’s produced a very provocative conversation about our times! Left me with so many deep thoughts on which I can reflect!”

As previously reported, Warren spoke at the Vatican last November during an interfaith conference on the “Complementarity of Man and Woman.” During his visit, he was recorded by the Catholic News Service as he urged Christians and Catholics to work together.

“Sometimes protestants think that Catholics worship Mary like she’s another god, but that’s not exactly Catholic doctrine,” Warren contended. “People say, ‘What are the saints all about? Why are you praying to the saints?’ And when you understand what they mean by what they’re saying, there’s a whole lot more commonality [that we have with Roman Catholics].”

“There’s still real differences—no doubt about that,” he stated. “But the most important thing is, if you love Jesus, we’re on the same team.”

Joel Osteen, leader of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, likewise expressed support for the Roman Catholic pontiff this past week in speaking with reporters.

“I like the pope. I like that he’s making the Catholic Church more open to bring people in and not exclude them,” Osteen told the Christian Post. “He’s a man of the people. I like what he stands for: humility, reaching out to others and he’s not so formal that people can’t relate to him.”

But some have expressed concern over the affirmation that evangelicals are giving to the Roman Catholic religion. Jordan Standridge, pastoral associate at Immanuel Bible Church in Springfield, Virginia, released an article this week entitled “Why Evangelicals and Catholics Cannot Be Together.” He pointed to problems stemming from the 1995 “Evangelicals and Catholics Together” document.

“Well-known evangelical pastors .. joined themselves with Catholic priests and philosophers in an ecumenical fashion in order to promote the agreements over the disagreements that have plagued Protestants and Catholics for centuries,” Standridge wrote.

Now, he said, “The vast majority of Christians in America do not evangelize Catholics. Someone like me who has shed many tears over the deception of the Roman Catholic Church is seen as hateful.”

“I totally understand the desire to believe people are saved,” Standridge continued. “I also desperately want Roman Catholics to go to heaven, but we can’t let our desire for people to be saved or our desire to please men lead us to cheer them on as they run towards Hell. We must love them.”

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Joel Rivera

I wonder of these three stooges would be excited if it was the Almighty they were going to see. They’re fakes anyway.

Marcia Skinner

Hmmm. Beware of false prophets

Jayne Irwin

Amen!

Peter Leh

pastors are not prophets. Two very difference roles and requirements.

sion7

OK, so they are false pastors, wolves in sheep clothing.

Peter Leh

all three are well within orthodoxy.

But i agree… anyone can be a “pastor”

Fallenman4Jesus

Prophet simply put means anyone who speak for God – does not necessarily mean “future telling.” You sir, are in the role of a prophet if you quote scripture and explain its meaning – and can be true or false.

Peter Leh

“You sir, are in the role of a prophet if you quote scripture and explain its meaning – and can be true or false.”

well then that makes all of us false prophets would it not? Unless everyone agree with you or everyone agrees with me? Swindoll, Spurgeon, and Piper do not all agree with each other so which ones are the false prophets?

i dont see that definition working out very well do you?

the definition i am referring to the the spiritual gift of prophecy given at the time of salvation for the edification of the body

warriorbride

You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.=Deut 18:22

Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth
his secrets unto his servants, the prophets” -Amos3:7

LUKE 6- “Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that
is how their fathers treated the false prophets, ….. Blessed are you when men hate you, exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the son of man, rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven, for that is how their father treated the prophets of God.

In fact it was the thrust of the ministry of the
prophets to rebuke and scold as well as to bring comfort. Isa.30:9-10:

afchief

A pastor can have the gift of prophecy and be a prophet. We are not limited to one calling.

Peter Leh

that is generally true.

warriorbride

you obviously DON’T know the OFFICE of the PROPHET which means that you HAVE TO TELL OF FUTURE THINGS TO PASS AND HAVE IT HAPPEN OR YOU ARE A FALSE PROPHET ! just because a person PROPHECY’S DOESN’T MAKE THEM A PROPHET HELLO !!! A TRUE prophet ALSO WARNS others of SIN AND REPENTANCE AND GETS THEM READY FOR CHRISTS RETURN AND PREACHES ON HOLINESS AND WARNS OTHERS OF FALSE WOLVES AND PREACHES ON SALVATION ! WHICH CLEARLY THESE 3 DO NOT !

afchief

Nope, the office of the prophet is totally different from the OT.

Revelation 19:10 (NASB) Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Trisha Herom

SERIOUSLY !!!! key words here “””””MEGA CHURCHES””””””” !!!! THREE MAN WHO CLAIM TO BE ”’CHRISTIANS”” WHO CLAIM TO BE MEN OF GOD ???!!!! YET THEY ACCEPT THE POPE BEING CALLED THE ”’HOLY”’ FATHER !!!!???? THERE IS ONLY ONE ”’HOLY”” FATHER AND HE IS MY “””HOLY FATHER””” IN HEAVEN !!! HE IS NOT A MAN HERE ON EARTH !!! SHAME ON YOU THREE MEN !!! YOU HAVE PROVEN TO ME THAT YOU THREE MEN ARE INFACT SATAN WORSHIPPER’S !!!!

Jayne Irwin

Amen!

Ernesto Obligado Fuentes Jr.

WE CANNOT SERVED TWO MASTER.either we are in the side of JESUS or cohorts of satan.i choose to be served the living GOD.IT IS JESUS CHRIST.

Peter Leh

i can’t hear through all the YELLING

Josey

I am not surprised at all that Obama invited these two false teachers olsteen and warren and the apostate jakes and gave them the V.I.P. treatment. Jakes must not be reading the same Bible I read for the apostle Paul addresses compromising with the enemy which he is doing or maybe he’s always been that way, I don’t know, I never really followed his ministry but if Jakes loves as he claims, he should be very afraid of facing God in the state he is in, he would want people to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is only one way to Heaven and that is through salvation and faith in the saving grace of God through the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross and he would not one soul lost and going into an eternal hell and he’s teaching this to many and sadly so many are lost because of his teaching he will be accountable for when he stands before God unless he repents and tells them he has been wrong. They have received their reward here and where there treasure is there is their heart and it is here on the earth not in heaven which is evident by the things they teach. I know Warren and Olsteen are false teachers and maybe Jakes too but it seems that he has fallen for the deception, I don’t know if he has crossed a line of no return but I hope he can get on his face before God and stay there till he clearly hears from God and repents of falling for this deception. It is truly sad how many will follow these false teachers right into hell. I pray God wakes those up who are questioning these teachings and that they run as fast as they can away from them and into the arms of Jesus and find a church that is teaching the king james bible and it’s truths.

Jayne Irwin

It’s a sad day when so-called ministers support a man who calls ,” Jesus Christ a failure”

Peter Leh

Where does integrity go when one becomes a chrisitan?

What did the pope REALLY say? and dont be a liar….. because we know who the father of lies is. Don’t we?

Jimmy

These ministers honor a man and a church that falsely teaches to the lost and dying world that salvation is received by water baptism as an infant, and maintained throughout one’s life by the sacraments of the RCC, and that is ok?

The Bible teaches salvation is received if a person has faith in Jesus Christ, believing he shed his blood and died to pay for our sins and rose from the grave to gift us with eternal life. (Eph.1.7, Ro.1.16, 1Cor.15.1-4)

PLEASE place your faith in Jesus and what he did to save you and not the Catholic Church, the Pope or anyone or anything else.

Josey

amen Jimmy

Martin Gran

Continual self righteous protestant drivel!

maranathagen67

Martin, “Thy Word is Truth” and the Truth shall set you free! He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life; no man cometh unto the Father except through Me!
One Way… One Savior…. your choice!

FoJC_Forever

Of course they’re excited. These three lead their own ‘masses’ in the wrong direction. They’re simply leaders of false doctrines, just like the pope. These are professional religious people, nothing more. But, don’t be fooled, there are many congregations which reject catholicism and do not follow Jesus either. Like restaurants which build next to each other – some people want hamburgers, some people want pizza, but all feast upon false doctrine.

As the End approaches, false religions masquerading as Christianity will become more popular and powerful. This runs hand in hand with those who practice blatantly pagan religions as well. Satan has many roads which lead to Destruction.

There is only one Way to Life, and that is through the Truth, Jesus (the) Christ. Those who know Him will enter into the Kingdom of God, while all others are cast away into Eternal Damnation.

Follow Jesus, find Peace.

Peter Leh

of course FojC has ALL his doctrines right…..except for the log in his eye. 🙂

He’s just cutting and pasting “filler” commonly known as “Lorem ipsum.” If you can’t impress them with your knowledge, dazzle them with you bee S.

Peter Leh

so he is a plagiarizer?

Another contradiction to add to his stellar character. 🙂

Matilde Tavares

English please? This is English speak forum? You obviously do so, since you are coming to this blog?

FoJC_Forever

Ik geloof dat ik ben vrij in welke taal ik kiezen om te spreken .

Bertha Warren

Some of us will very, very when Jesus come and some will be trying to find hiding place. Even the rocks want hide some when he come. Come Lord Jesus come.

Jayne Irwin

How can they support a man who calls Jesus Christ a failure!

Peter Leh

Same question… see below

Wayne McLaw

the pope is the antichrist and the man of sin and thee beast of revelations there are loving people in the catholic church but they have been deceive they are in a religion without christ i pray got shed his light on those blind souls in the catholic church the catholic church is appealing to the world so that they can bring the world under one world religion with the pope as the head there is an agenda satan wanted to take the place of god and he is using the papacy to try to do that

achucma

Amen!!

Martin Gran

You are doing nothing but reciting the self righteous, no-Christ like protestant drivel that protestants have been spewing for the past 500 hundred years. The sad part though is that you actually believe that insipid trash!

jennylynn

2 John 1:9-10
If anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God;the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

Martin Gran

You have some serious hateful issues!

Fallenman4Jesus

Telling the truth is not hate – tolerance is hate cause tolerance sends people to hell. Which are you?

Joseph Essien-Obot

So, you mean that if I tolerate immigrants they will be sent to hell?

Fallenman4Jesus

No, tolerating sin, such as homosexuality, is hate. It’s not a sin immigrate is it? You can’t be serious with this argument.

Joseph Essien-Obot

And what tolerance was Papa Francis talking about?

I actually hope I’m following this conversation. Please excuse me if I’ve gone off track.

Matilde Tavares

As much as I am ex Roman Catholic by birth, education & nationality background, and appreciate the need to reach out to all sinners, regardless of religious connection, I, believe that as ex Catholic, am qualified to state: by all means reach out to Catholics/Muslims, no different than any sinner. Please note of the 3, none stated they were agreed with Catholic doctrine; so let’s not get ahead of them, but as ex Catholic, I promise you I was well in the system , but was neither saved, nor know that I needed to be saved, not heard how to be saved, despite being in Catholicism, & be “God fearing”. I was a lost goody goody sinner, having Jesus so near, & yet sooo very far. Yet I was born into a Catholic family, in an official Catholic country , educated in Catholic school.
For anyone interested most professing Catholicism are God fearing, just deceived by a religious system. we believed then, that only Catholics went to heaven, ie, yr only denomination saved you, provided you obeyed their dogmas. We know that NO denomination, human or rituals can save you, nor grace be earned! Ou Jesus is Saviour/redeemer!
But within the Catholic Church are many born again Catholics, who will meet separately within Church with wish to spread gospel from within
To say Mary is not idolized, can only come from lack of knowledge. We were taught , like millions, that she is mediator… as well as the saints. This nullifies work of the Cross as a doctrine. In my day, we were not even allowed to own a Bible, ie, The Scriptures, as only priests who studied them for 7 yrs were qualified. This discourages/stops people from discovering the Truth for themselves .
I have full recall, not just in my own nation of processions, especially Easter of statues of Mary mostly adorned with gold etc, carried in procession; my parents took us to Spain Easter celebrations, & there not just the continuous processions, but people that had bleeding knees,from walking” on their knees as some kind of earning favour/answers to prayers, some of I think Franciscan order who afflicted themselves physically. My parents had bought a “special indulgence” from Vatican, when as a 4/5 yr old in the Marian year, we visited Rome; we had the “Holy Family” visit us once a month, in our home. , for special grace. I tell you, Catholicism is just a religion, like any other, but Christianity and Catholicism are not vaguely similar. All religion is reaching by our performance to be accepted by God. Christianity is “a done deal” by JeSus Christ alone, and is a work of God reaching down to lost humanity, & bridging the gap created by sin, through the all Redeeming sacrifice of the shed Blood of Jesus, at the Cross of Calvary. Nothing we do can earn us forgiveness or acceptance except to BELIEVE in Jesus as your Lord & Saviour. (John3:3,3:16,,john1:-12, Rom10:8-10)
So, by all means reach out to Catholics, Muslims etc, but no commonality between religion and Christianity. If you want to use some of their theology to get them saved, fine; our commission is to the whole world, including Catholics, Muslims; truthfully if we reject them on their theology, then we will never be able to fulfil our commission!
” For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power” Col2:9-10
We are not the body of Mary not Mahlmed; do not get confused , but do reach out to them; many sincere prow, just sincerely deceived

Patrick Gildea

I believe there are many people who are catholic and are on their way to heaven… Remember Jesus said “you are the salt of the earth”. Just because someone in a practicing catholic does not mean they don’t have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I believe there are many people in all religion s
who have met the Lord and talk to Him. Don’t be so quick to judge. wait and see. Look for the fruit.

Joseph Essien-Obot

You are almost Catholic in your thoughts, and good for you.

You see, God is no prisoner of any religion although his grace is expressly present in Christianity. He gives his grace as he wills and to that extent there are people who do not know Jesus or understand what Christians claim if ever they have come across any but who, by God’s unfathomable grace know him by living in his truth. That, is knowing the Lord.

Patrick Gildea

almost Catholic???

Joseph Essien-Obot

If you’re not one already, that is. You expressed very Catholic-like understanding of God and salvation.

Patrick Gildea

I am a practical Catholic, I am also a member of an evangelical church, where I go regularly. I go to mass a few times a year and participate by volunteering in my local parish.

Joseph Essien-Obot

a practical Catholic…

Martin Gran

So why do you refer to yourself as a practical Catholic?

Fallenman4Jesus

Then what say you to the statement of Jesus Christ “i am the truth, the way, and the life, and NO ONE comes to the father but by me.” The only way to ‘live in God’s truth’ is to live in the truth of His Word and through His son Jesus Christ – God incarnate.

Patrick Gildea

, Pope Francis is a leader who leads people to Jesus Christ.

Joseph Essien-Obot

There is absolutely no conflict here. Jesus Christ is the Truth, if someone lives in that Truth that is Jesus, he lives in Jesus. He may not explicitly know Jesus as a person. Anyone that lives in Jesus is on the Way and will have Life.

The Good Samaritan should be an example. Who is my neighbour, someone asks. A rabbi and a priest, who lived within the Law of the Covenant knew not their neighbour even though they were well versed in the knowledge of God’s Covenant. A Samaritan, a people known to have abandoned their worship of Yahweh for idols which made them worse than Gentiles who never knew Yahweh, fulfilled the Law of God by being a true neighbour. The first group knew of God, the Samaritan LIVED the life of God. Jesus calls us to know God through the Samaritan’s life.

The disposition of the Samaritan was the gift of God’s grace despite being outside, physically, of the Covenant People but he was gifted to live the Covenant Life, at least the part we know.

The point here is that there is more to salvation than knowing in our heads that Jesus is Lord and God, that he is Truth. Anyone that lives that Truth lives in Jesus who is the Way and will have Life.

Fallenman4Jesus

The point is understood, that actions speak louder than words. Certainly the priest and the Levite were hypocrites, and Jesus used Samaritan to illustrate this to his audience, a despised people whom they thought could never be in the favor of God. Either way, it doesn’t obviate the need to have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus, and certainly, actions, again, speak louder than words, so why continue to practice rituals and blasphemous activities that are in direct opposition to God’s words? No matter what, salvation requires faith in Jesus Christ – Romans 10:9 is clear, if you profess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that he was raised from the dead, you will be saved. Good people don’t get into heaven (there really aren’t any ‘good’ people – a topic for another discussion) – saved people get into heaven. There is no such place as purgatory.

Joseph Essien-Obot

Wow! You’re way, way off. I’m not and neither is Jesus speaking of anything in the vicinity of actions speaking louder than words. This is simply incredulous! Jesus was in no way trying to show that the priest and Levite were hypocrites, far, far from this, he was demonstrating, by appealing to our attraction to good, the quality that makes a true neighbour. If you noticed, the Samaritan did more than what may be termed his duty, he gave money and left instructions, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.’ He took care of the stranger as if he were taking care of himself, no excuses, no rationlizations just pure and unalloyed self-giving. That is neighbour even by confession of Jesus’ listeners. This is what Jesus is calling us to, love that is Christ’s.

In Matthew 25:31-46, we read Jesus passing judgement by what we do. Certainly, that’s an important part of salvation. Those who act, go to heaven, those who don’t go to hell. But again Jesus makes contrast between doing and its quality. When Pharisees pray in public, and praying is a good thing, they do so to be seen, you see them, that’s their reward. People give to show off, they’ve made an impression, that’s their reward. In other words, work we must but then there must be a quality to it, a quality of pure self-giving, a quality that makes feeding the hungry, clothing the naked etc. salvific. That quality is Christ.

This interestingly brings us to Romans 10:9, “That if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved.”

At face value one might be tempted to believe that the mute cannot be saved since their mouths will fail to confess that “Jesus is Lord”. Of course this should bring into question what exactly Paul means by the first part of this statement. ‘Confession’ to start with is ‘self-revelation’. If evidence outside of me proves something it cannot be said to be confession. ‘Confession’ is also related to ‘truth’. If I lie in giving a statement it cannot be considered confession, so, until such a statement is believed to be true, it is not confession. ‘Proclaim’ can be understood in similar fashion. The ‘mouth’ or ‘lips’ make it a thoroughly personal thing. Even the mute can now confess or proclaim, “Jesus is Lord.”

In the second part of the quote, “…believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead”. We can only truly come to confess the Lordship of Jesus if we perfectly believe that God raised Jesus from the dead.

So, what is Paul saying here? He is talking about a condition, a state of being that is tantamount to salvation. That until our very lives are a confession of Jesus being Lord which can only be brought about by belief that God raised him from the dead we will not have Life. Pretending that it literally means that when we actually pronounce with our lips, “Jesus is Lord”, while acknowledging that Jesus was raised from the dead by God then we are automatically saved is turning around to embrace the very thing that Paul is spending all his time in Romans explaining away, obedience to the Law as against the Law bring written in our hearts. No matter how much time I spend actually saying, “Jesus is Lord” I will not be saved until my very nature “beaten into submission” (1 Cor. 9:27) does so.

And for your information, good people do go to heaven. Jesus used examples of good people all over the place as material for heaven. If one is good one is saved, goodness being God’s free gift. He and the Apostles teach us that all that goodness is found in Jesus, like a one stop shop, and is exemplified in him, so we don’t get confused as to what ‘goodness’ is, so that as conscious beings we can walk towards God in whose image we are created. In other words we participate in our own creation which is a participation in the likeness of the Creator.

Matilde Tavares

Patrick, thnx for yr comment. Please re read my post. As for fruit, it comes from nature of a tree. I cannot hang good works on an u regenerated person & call them saved. By grace thru faith . The doctrine of Catholicism , like all isms”, is that it is religion. I am not quick to judge, quite opposite, am well aware that there are born again spirit filled Catholics in Catholic Church, but am well aware of system, because I came out of it! Read my post. In all denominations, there are dinners, & saved people (Bible description); Christianity is not a region, nor denomination, but a relationship of child with Father thru Jesus Christ. Problem is that the system of theology purports to be Christian, & it is not. Salvation in that system is good works program, Jesus Christ,plus plus… Mary , Joseph, dead saints, and other forms of scriptural error & idolatries!
Catholicism does NOT represent Biblical /Scriptural Christianity. I dont know your background, but Scripture teaches (Jesus said it) you must be born again, without which you cannot see the kingdom of heaven (john3:3, because “ALL have sinned & come short of glory of God (inherited from Adam nature) , BUT ” For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast (eph2:8);Why? God so loved the world HE GAVE His Only begotten SON that whosoever believes in HIM SHALL be saved (John3:16) (Note: not Mary, Joseph saints…). When I pray to any of these I am denying the atonement for sin paid by Jesus Christ (only Himself) with His Blood on Calvary Cross; good works don’t save either as you can see, & read the whole epistles of Romans to really confirm this for yourself). Once i receive Jesus, as stated in John1:12, (as many as RECEIVE HIM-not church/denomination- He gives power to become dons of God.
How ? Rom10:8-12 states
“But what saith it? The word is nigh you , even in your mouth, and in your heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if YOU shalt confess (declare vocally) with Your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in YOUR heart that God has raised him from the dead, YOU SHALL be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession (declaration) is made unto salvation. For the scripture says Whosoever BELIEVES on HIM shall not be ashamed” .
Once you have taken this action, YOU become born again or as described in 2Cor5:17
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,”. Note again, in Christ, not Mary, Joseph, saints, good works, denomination, religion all sorts ….
So to be saved, you need to be in Christ, for sin nature can only produce sin fruit; you MUST be born again, & be a new creation (per Jesus Christ, the Head of the Church, not the pope, pastor, evangelist, prophet etc.
any doctrine not founded or in agreement with Scripture is FALSE doctrine, whether Roman Catholic, or Protestant or other.
That is factual Truth: Jonhn 1:1″ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
So whenever we start or go off scripture, which is simply put, what GOD HIMSELF said, and JESUS & His Word are one
Verse14:”And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” ( note the Word & Jedus are one)
Am I anti catholic?of course Not. I am pro catholic people but anti ROMAN catholic teaching because it prevents people coming to salvation, not lead them to it! I know, I was there. Ignorance of the system was not the problem, and it’s rituals which I performed (confession, rosary, processions efc ) but ignorant of The TRUTH was, that JESUS alone saves, & we must be born again to be saved, not belong to Roman Catholic system to be saved! I belong to the Catholic Church of Jesus Christ; catholic means universal, ie, I belong to the mystic Body of Christ represented by all believers on earth that have received Jesus Christ as their personal Lord & Saviour; they may be found in any of the “tribes” who preaches Salvation as I described above.
As Jesus said, “I AM The Way, The Truth & The Life, & No ONE comes to the Father , but by Me” (not even Mary, Joseph, nor Pope can do it.
So, yes, the fruit is evident: man made religion does not equal Christ salvation plan

Martin Gran

I truly love how protestants continually quote the bible but can not tell us why the original reformers removed 7 books from the bible! Can you answer that question?

Patrick Gildea

Thank you Matilde for taking the time to comment. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Even though I participate in the Roman Catholic church I’m sure that most of my Catholic friends would be shocked to find that I do not pray to Mary or the saints or consider the Pope as my “Holy Father”. I do participate because for the very reason you mention Romans 10:8-12. Many years ago I turned away from Catholicism, I was frustrated that so many of my fellow parishioners said these words often and then left church and ignored the poor and just didn’t act at all as true Christians. Over the years I have matured and have come to realize that in every religion people go to church and say the words and claim to be Christian but do not have a personal relationship with our Lord Jesus. I believe I am called to be patient with them and hope that they may come to know Him. That the Holy Spirit may use me when I least expect it to help them, or nudge them along. In the Catholic system like in any World system there is corruption. I know this, but it is in me to have hope that that which is imperfect shall be made perfect. I am saddened that people go through their whole life’s going to church, receiving communion and proclaiming to be Christian yet they have no regard for the poor, they take no time to help strangers except to put a donation here or there. I can only pray for them and hope that someday they will see the light. I am mystified (don’t know if that’s the right word) that people can confess Christ yet act like they don’t know Him. I could not because I have a conscience that tells me if I want to be true, my life should reflect what I say. If I believe in Jesus Christ I should be in and live in Him.
I don’t know if Pope Francis has met the Lord and walks with Him. It is hard to Judge, I hope he is Christian just as I hope (and don’t know) that my president is Christian). I have the privilege in today’s world to watch what they do, ( If I can trust the media (which is a difficult process) and pray for them as my bible teaches me.

achucma

Roman Catholic hated Jesus
Muslims hates Israel because of Jesus
Antichrist and false prophet
Need any thing more be said

Matilde Tavares

Roman Catholic don’t/didn’t hate Jesus.

Martin Gran

Protestants hate logic understanding and intelligence! Nothing left to say!

Matilde Tavares

Thank u for yur comment. I have no idea where u got the thought that Roman Catholics hated Jesus. I learnt about Jesus from Catholicism, though all very fear based religion. But I never heard any anti Jesus /hate from RC church/individual Catholics

Joseph Essien-Obot

I’m afraid, as an ex-unserious Catholic, you are not qualified to assess the faith with any authority.

We believe that the Catholic Church holds the fullness of the Christian truth, however, we don’t believe that only Catholics go to heaven. We have understood this right from the onset.

Nobody obeys dogma, dogma is believed. That Jesus is God, that God is Trinity, that Jesus saves the world, these are dogma. How you mean they are obeyed demonstrates failure to grasp what you are talking about.

“Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you…” 1 Peter 3:21, and Paul in 1 Cor. 9:22 says, “To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.” yet you KNOW “that NO denomination, human or rituals can save you.” I imagine you think that Peter and Paul did not know that “Jesus is Saviour/Redeemer!”

James 5:16, “…pray for one another so that you may be healed.” Do you not think that when we pray FOR each other we are usurping Jesus’ Mediation? Or don’t you think we are PARTICIPATING in Jesus’ Mediation by mediating? Much like we participate in his Sonship and Priesthood? Or how else do we participate if we do not do? Yet to you it is the nullification of the work of the Cross. We are ALL mediators sharing in Christ’s one Mediation.

You did not own a Bible as you grew up and your parents probably had no personal interest in their faith apart from the social affiliation they found themselves, they did a poor job at transmission or you just took no interest whatsoever. Ever since printing made documents more readily available the Church has encouraged faithful to read the Scriptures, there is even an indulgence for devoutly reading the Scriptures for at least 20 minutes. I know this slander was invented some 500 years ago by enemies of the Church, I find it interesting that it continues to fester 500 years later and buttressed by so-called “ex-Catholics”.

So, what about Marian processions during Easter? That we join Mary in the joy of her resurrected son? That we seek to glimpse the joy that is proper to all Christians at the resurrection of Jesus? That we carry an image that helps our senses appreciate the presence of the one whose joy we seek to share? Even Jesus pointed to weak man as an example to look towards, John 1:47, “Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and said of him, “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!” Nathanael reflected Christ’s purity, so do true saints.

That people mortified themselves like an athlete would put himself through strenuous training in order to achieve perfection in certain arenas is meaningless? We are told to “work out [our] salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in [us], both to will and to work for His good pleasure” Phil.2:12. When we work in faith we grow, the growth is God’s work in us. So, if that work is geared toward the reformation of our souls it is God’s work, if it is done for its own sake or some motive that does not edify the soul we fail, but work we must. For as Paul implies our salvation will not be worked out, it will not materialize.

When Jesus said in Matt.28:19&20, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, TEACHING them to observe all that I commanded you”. The Church is TEACHER, not just evangelizer and all these things you think are are ‘Religion’ according to your idea of salvation are lessons by the teacher. If you do not learn you will not become, you’ll just remain where you are. Catholicism and Christianity can therefore not be separate things for that is why it exists, to make Christians of all nations.

I personally find it interesting that students now turn around to pit the teacher’s textbook (the Bible) against the teacher (the Church). Imagine how much better the students will understand the textbook than the teacher on the subject. You can’t understand my writings more than me. I will encourage you to let pride go, be a student, that what we are.

Martin Gran

As one Roman Catholic to another…very well spoken!

Matilde Tavares

Dear bro you have no authority and are totally incorrect about my relationship with God as a Catholic. (Before being born again. However, I have written two comments, that should have clarified my position, namely Chridtianity is not:
A saved by works
2. The Scriptures/Bible is final authority on all matters
3. Jesus alone is Lord & only mediator -Bible assertion: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”1Tim2:5-6
4. Salvation/Christianity is defined by relationship with God, in name of Jesus
5. Mary was sinner , though a godly woman chosen by God, per OT prophecies, who was willing to go through personal social disrepute & judgement under the Law, to carry THE Saviour. Who stated in Magnificat that lord was Her Saviour
Like Abraham , she chose to believe message .
6. She has niI power in prayer , as seen in Canaan wedding, when alive, & even less when dead. We are to have nothing with the dead, one of the other factors of why Jesus rose from the dead
Last but not least, these are my final points, taken from Scriptures
I wish you well, & agree to disagree

You choose to disagree. I was educated in a Cathie institution for 12 yrs; apart from belief system.
To conclude this conversation,

Joseph Essien-Obot

Interesting assertions.

But before you leave, can you show me how the Bible is the final authority on all matters of faith or is that just a conjecture of yours?

Matilde Tavares

John1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
V14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Blessings

Joseph Essien-Obot

Yes, Jesus is the Word of God. Whose arguing about that?

Is Scripture the final authority on all matters? Now, that’s the question.

Matilde Tavares

Just got over biggest time hurdles, so can for now reply.
I am however unsure if you want an argument or Truth.
Let me start by saying this:(2Tim3:16—-)
1.All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they …,2tim3:16-end, 2Tim4:1-2 (Notice preach THE WORD, not our opinion)
2. If God is Supreme authority, then it would follow that His Word is Supreme authority
3. If God did not , & does not do anything without His Word, it would be very foolish of man to start without It, as it would not automatically be backed up by His power
Mrk16:20 is typical example:
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
Jesus ministry was first preach /teach His Word, then signs followed in confirmation of His Word. As I said, if God starts with His Word, it would in my view be arrogant or other attitude, for me to assume that I can start without His Word
Gen1 almost every verse contains : God said, or He called
Either way, as confirmed in John1:1 in the beginning was the Word. That makes Word final authority, (nothing God authorized by Him, starts without Hid Word) since the One issuing Word is THE final authority.
Rom12:-2 tells us :And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
This means i replace my thinking with His, (His Word) so I can manifest the God will for & in my life, ie, His Word, ie, His Word is His Will, & if His will is what I want, then His Word is what I want, & all else gets dislodged, that opposes His Word=His will
I trust this answers your interest. Be blessed

Joseph Essien-Obot

I’ve actually been ruminating on how to get this across to you.

You see, you speak based on an assumption, obviously based on your Christian tradition, that when Paul says “the word” that he is actually referring to “Scripture”. This is rather a simplistic reduction.

You see, “the word”, God’s word to mankind is only partly revealed in Scripture. God reveals himself fully in Jesus Christ. With Jesus’ coming the context of the Jewish faith was radically re-calibrated. This new perspective is what the basis of Christian faith is all about. When Jesus ascended into heaven, this is all he left behind, a group of men who had a living experience with him, a context and subsequently a realization of the fullness of God’s word, on Pentecost, Salvation in Christ Jesus. It is from within this context that we have the Good News! The word of God encompasses all these, Scripture and context, all of which was transmitted by word of mouth, sometimes by writing and by practice from one generation to another. This fullness of God’s word is what Paul is referring to as “the word”. He is not just referring to Scripture, which of course contains God’s word, it also encompasses its context and the fullness revealed in Jesus Christ, it is not even just restricted to the Good News that we are now saved through him. This is what Paul is talking about when he says “Preach the word”. He is not saying “Preach Scripture” but he does imply that Scripture is a useful tool.

The remaining part of your analysis runs away with the idea that the word is strictly Scripture and it turns out that you even claim that God needed Scripture to create the world. He did not. He created the world by his Will, that act is His Word, he speaks in his creative act.

Since the Word of God is beyond Scripture it follows that Scripture is not the final authority. This is why Paul referenced “the Church” as the “pillar and foundation” of the Truth without hesitation. No where does anyone do same with Scripture.

I’m somewhat ill disposed right now but there is so much one can get into in this regard. I hope however that this should make enough sense to help you realize that there is more to “the word” than Scripture and as such making Scripture the final authority actually deprives one from the fullness of “the word”. Thanks.

Fallenman4Jesus

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

If you haven’t discovered Dave Armstrong already, I encourage you to do so.

sandra-paquette-

Matilde Tavares – I wouldn’t be bother wasting my time on these guys. There are 2 on here pull the same thing on Walid Shoebat site. All they want to do is argue they are not interested in the truth. Especially when you quote verse and show them where to find them and it is plain as day. There are just here for argument sake and nothing more.

Fallenman4Jesus

It’s about control with the roman catholic church, who throughout history has been instrumental in trying to KEEP the word of God out of the hands of the common man. John Wycliff, William Tyndale and Martin Luther to name a few, all translated bibles into the common man language, all were persecuted by the roman catholic church. Why? Control. Hmmmmm doesn’t sound like God’s church after all

Joseph Essien-Obot

Yeah, all the nice nonsense you have read. Luther’s issue with the Church was not about a translation but concerning his translation, you of all people should know, he added a word that wasn’t in his German translation, ‘alone’. Shouldn’t ruffle anyone’s feathers now, should it? That’s apart from several New Testament books he attempted to remove, like Hebrews and James.

I’d suggest you read about John Wycliff, and William Tyndale from source other than from those rumour mongering pamphlets you fancy. The internet makes available a whole world both secular scholarship as well as Catholic and see how they talley with the nonsense you just wrote.

Willem Toerien

Unity in truth[Ps 119:142,151] or unity in error[2 Pt 3:17]?

To suggest you unite simply because “they also believe in Jesus” is put the truth aside for the sake of unity.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partakers with them. For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Master. Walk as children of light – for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, and righteousness, and truth –proving what is well -pleasing to the Master. And have no fellowship with the fruitless works of darkness, but rather expose them. – Eph 5:6-11

Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness? And what fellowship has light with darkness? And what agreement has Messiah with Beliyaʽal? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever? And what union has the Dwelling Place of God with idols? For you are a Dwelling Place of the living God, as God has said, “I will dwell in them and walk among them, and I will be their God and they will be My people.” Therefore, “Come out from among them and be separate, says יהוה, and do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you. “And I will be a Father to you, and you will be sons and daughters to Me, says יהוה the Almighty.” – 2 Co 6:14-18

Joseph Essien-Obot

You guys are such odd people who live in a strange, unreal world and who are totally unwilling to find truth preferring instead to circulate unfounded and completely false information about your fellow Christians for the sake of proving you’re right.

Catholic are Christians just as Baptists are Christians too. Because a Christian community calls itself Methodist, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Lutheran and what have you, does not mean they are not Christian. One can’t say, “he’s not Christian, he’s Episcopalian!”

The Catholic Church being the oldest of all Christian communities is Christian, obviously. It is the Universal Christian Community, hence ‘Catholic’, not following after the thoughts of Luther, or King Henry VIII, or Zwingli, or particular movements of any sort, but continuing in the steps of the Apostles Jesus left behind, who passed on the faith through the traditions which they taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter which we hold on to. Working out disputes of faith by coming together, as opposed to breaking into bits, and submitting itself to the Holy Spirit in the resolution of these disputes.

As Christians we all hold on to the understanding that Jesus is God, that he is the Saviour of the world through the Cross, that God is Trinity, that the Bible is God’s word and that we all need the prayers of one another for our salvation. These are all Catholic Dogma, unchangeable truths of Christian faith. For non-Catholic Christians to claim that Catholics and/or the Catholic Church is not Christian is like children claiming that their parents are not human… absurd for sure.

Lord, have mercy!

Patrick Gildea

well said…

Rebecca

LOL

Joseph Essien-Obot

Very funny indeed.

Fallenman4Jesus

Catholic and roman catholic are two very different and distinct entities – the catholic church has existed since Jesus Christ established it on the day of Pentecost. The roman catholic church around the 6th century with loosely drawn lines of papacy back to Peter. If roman catholics are true Christians then why when you ask then if they are Christian do they always correct you and say ‘catholic?’ and why if they are true Christians do they subscribe to practices that fly in the face of God’s Word? such as priests, popes, mary worship, praying to saints, saints for that matter, transubstantiation, just to name a few. This is a man-made religion designed to extort money from and control the masses. Come out of her if you are a true bible-believing follower of Jesus Christ.

Joseph Essien-Obot

Wow! Where did you learn such crap? The Catholic Church is the Catholic Church. How did ‘Roman’ come in? Well, let’s go back to King Henry VIII.

You see, when King Henry declared himself the head of the Church in England it was still called ‘Catholic’. I’m sure, you would understand that henceforth calling the name ‘Catholic’ would generate a certain tension. “Which of the Catholic Churches?” would be the question. Well, that question was answered by prefixing it, ‘Anglo’ or ‘Roman’, the Church headed in Rome or England. Soon, as English politics progressed the English church lost or abandoned its Catholic identity and as you can imagine the Catholic Church still maintained its Roman abode. The Catholic Church still calls itself that hence you have for instance the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

I think it is ingenious to use emphasis on the Catholic Christian identity as a yardstick to measure ‘Christianness’. I often find it necessary to make that emphasis. It is an emphasis, not a distinction.

And finally, the premise of your Christian faith is not the premise of the Catholic faith. We do not follow the Bible, we go along with it. The Bible developed alongside the Church who at some point set its Canon, or would we say, its Table of Content. And for your information ‘priest’ comes from the word ‘presbyter’ meaning ‘elder’, and ‘Pope’ comes from the Greek ‘pappas’, an affectionate term for ‘father’. It wasn’t always restricted to the Bishop of Rome but was used for all bishops which over time gradually died away leaving the Bishop of Rome almost exclusively with it. These days I see Pentecostals call their pastors and bishops ‘Daddy’ and even their wives ‘Mummy’, that’s ‘Pope’. The Bishop or Pope of Rome is on the Seat of Peter, the head of the Apostles who presides in love, the Servant of the Servants of God, “he who is greatest among you will be servant.” Mary worship is a blatant lie, asking the saints in heaven for their prayers (pray means ask) has no fault, they are living, the dead are in hell. A Christian never stops praying for his brethren whether that Christian is on earth or in heaven and can never deny such requests. This is an act of love, Jesus. All the Church Fathers witness that the bread and wine, which is called Eucharist IS the body and blood of Jesus, in fact the Romans persecuted Christians in part for this by claiming they practiced cannibalism.

I have never seen a more money-extorting community than Protestantism, these days it is difficult to figure if the pastors are marketing for funds or preaching the good news.

Fallenman4Jesus

Catholic is a generic term for the “universal church” that the roman catholics hijacked for their own use. The Nicene creed uses this word long before the roman catholic church existed. Peter was never given the seat – you roman catholics like to take things out of context. Read the verses before the infamous ‘Peter….on this rock’ and it is clear that the ‘rock’ Jesus was referring to was the knowledge that Jesus was the Christ, son of God. On that ‘rock’ – foundation He will build His church. In Matthew 7 he illustrates this again by speaking of a wise man who builds his house on the rock – Jesus. This is Jesus Christ’s church, not the roman catholic church, not the pope’s church. Jesus is the head, we are the body. Read your bible!

Joseph Essien-Obot

Lol!!! This is interesting! So, you’re not one of those claiming that Constantine created the Catholic Church, it’s now somewhere else in the 6th Century when the Western Roman Empire had virtually collapsed. Lol!!! I took it that when you said 6th Century that it might have been a typo but it turns out not!

OK, my friend. The same Catholic Church that proclaimed the Nicene Creed is the same Catholic Church today. The Church doesn’t need the Bible in order to have a Bishop of Rome, neither does it need the Bible to recognize Peter as head of the Apostles. The Church did not come from the Bible, the Bible came from the Church of God. Nonetheless, it can demonstrate that its life is consistent with its Scriptures.

That aside, arguing that because Jesus is Rock that Peter cannot be Rock is inconsistent scriptural understanding. For instance, Jesus says, Matt.23:9, “Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.” Yet the same Jesus said, John 8:56, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” Jesus calls someone other than God, father of the Jews. Jesus is King, Priest and Prophet, yet we too are. These are possible because there is a sharing, we participate in these gifts. Jesus is Rock and so Peter can be Rock too as he participates in Jesus’ ministry, so too Jesus is Priest, we can be Priest too by participating in his priesthood. This does not mean that Peter is ultimate Rock just as we are not ultimate Priest, we are these by participation in Christ.

Finally, you are right, the Church is Christ’s, it is called Catholic because it is not the product of any individual’s personal bias like Luther, Zwingli or who ever else, nor is it a product of some movement or the other, it is the products of Christ himself proclaiming Truth by the coming together of its parts, not the hand telling the head I don’t need you and so forth, but finding continuing the Truth in unity. Where you get the idea that the Church belongs to any pope beats me but all popes have the duty of preserving unity in Christ’s Church, feeding his sheep and tending his lambs.

I read my Bible, do you yours?

Fallenman4Jesus

You may read it but you don’t understand it. Just like the father issue. Once again, if you take the time to read it in CONTEXT you will see (maybe you won’t) that Jesus was pointing out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees – how religious they look (like priests/bishops/cardinals/pope), how they enjoy the best seats in the house (like priests/bishops/cardinals/pope) and how they like to be called rabbi, rabbi – terms of honor they didn’t deserve (like priests/bishops/cardinals/pope) therefore he was saying do not give this title of honor “father” (interesting how he specifies this exact title that you roman catholics use for your false leaders) to these false leaders.

I suppose you are gonna tell me now that we have to literally eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ? Hence the practice of transubstantiation which is a load of rubbish.

By the way, the greek word for Peter is petra – meaning stone, Cephas means rock. So since Jesus used both these names in the bible for Peter, and in this instance used Peter or petra, he clearly meant stone. SOooo, on this stone he will build his church? No, he said ROCK – He is the rock, not peter or stone. You see, you need the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible. Reading is not enough, you have to be able to discern it and you need the Lord for that. Pray he gives you the wisdom.

Joseph Essien-Obot

Incidentally, all Jesus references to the Pharisees were not all about hypocrisy. Here Jesus was highlighting their pride. Sitting on the Seat of Moses, they rather occupied themselves with doing all what was possible to achieve fame, success and rank. You cannot be father, or teacher and what else with yourself as reference, you can only be these with reference to God. So while these people were in offices of authority over their faithful they failed to be fathers and teachers because they lived in reference to themselves. The names or titles themselves were not the problem, it was the people themselves.

Maybe Paul will help you somewhat here, “I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15For
if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have
many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the
gospel. 16Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me.” 1 Cor. 14-16. Father Paul.

Concerning transubstantiation, it is necessary to inform you that it is not something practiced, it is a description of what happens at Mass. While you may think that it is rubbish I can assure you Jesus’ very own disciples had this to say, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?” John 6:60, and, “From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.” John 6:66. Congratulations, you’re not the first not to believe this “rubbish”.

And, by the way too, Peter is Greek, Cephas is Aramaic. Jesus spoke Aramaic and Cephas means Rock like we know it in English unlike how it is handled in Greek with several qualifications. As I said earlier, just as Jesus is Son, we are sons, so can someone be rock by the nature of his office. I hope it was not the Holy Spirit that revealed to you that Cephas is Greek. Sometimes we need authority, either as individual or as institution, to assist in our walk towards God.

Matilde Tavares

Amen

Martin Gran

As you brought the bible up, why don’t you tell us why the original reformers removed 7 books from the bible?

“If roman catholics are true Christians then why when you ask them if
they are Christian do they always correct you and say ‘catholic?'”

Starts with a B and ends with an S. If Catholics ALWAYS do that then why have I never heard anyone say that? I know I don’t, so there goes your ALWAYS.

Peter Leh

“You guys are such odd people who live in a strange, unreal world and who
are totally unwilling to find truth preferring instead to circulate
unfounded and completely false information about your fellow Christians
for the sake of proving you’re right.”

stick around Joseph we need more like you.

Fallenman4Jesus

What are you talking about? There is no other truth than what comes from the Bible and it’s crystal clear – open your eyes – the window to your soul and shows the real you.

I’ve been trying to get that message across here for some time now. But what can you expect from web site that puts every Catholic term in quotes. Good to know I’m not the only voice crying in the wilderness. Thanks.

Ryan Bray

Amen. Joseph is very right. Who do you all think you are condemning other followers of Christ? Do you think believing you follow the True Christ means that others are following a false one? There is one bread, and one body. His blood was spilled so that all who believe in Him could enter His Kingdom. You want to claim you’re Christians then start acting like it and stop seeking your own personal power through thinking you’re different. Your terminal uniqueness will not save you.

Matilde Tavares

Perhaps need to clarify, not all Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, or Pentecostals are automatic christians; this would include Catholics; Jesus said in John3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ..
John1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name
Eph2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
So no automatic Christians, regardless of denominations, but people individually asking Jesus to be their personal Saviour. Rom 10:

warriorbride

BOY ARE YOU DECEIVED ! ha baptists, catholics are NOT christian at! the catholic pope has told the people NOT to follow Jesus or the bible in what it says, they follow a book called the APROCRAPHA which is a SIN to ADD to the bible-Deut 4:2 and they deal in IDOLATRY and NECROMANCER which is what NEW AGE does and its WITCHCRAFT !!

The baptists follow a false doctrine of “once saved, always saved” they have a FORM of GODLINESS but NO FRUITS or POWER thereof, they teach error that women can’t preach TAKES out MARK 16:17 and they say that the GIFTS have PASSED AWAY ! which is NOT true or biblical they CAN’T interpret the bible because of their sins and thus have become BLINDED to the TRUTH and deceived by satan, they are NOT Truly born again for they ALSO DO NOT FOLLOW the WHOLE bible and because of that the enemy comes into their minds and LIES to them about the bible. they are NOT SPIRIT FILLED and their LIVES do NOT follow CHRIST, they smoke drink and party and then go to church and THINK that they will go to heaven, they THINK that their WORKS will saved them and the catholics believe in pergetory and where is that in the bible ? its NOT ! so many CULTS NOW call themselves “christians” that you CAN’T even tell the difference anymore between them and the SECULAR UNSAVED and the word for they follow that instead of GOD !

And just because a person CALLS themselves a christian doesn’t MEAN that they ARE ! WE ARE TOLD BY GOD to TEST the SPIRITS and STUDY to show ourselves to be APPROVED and that is WHY so MANY FOLLOW false teachers for because they are usually NOT FOLLOWING the bible or GOD either and are LUKEWARM OR just IGNORANT of what they are teaching on Joseph ALL those dead dry churches that you mentioned are NOT SAVED ! they follow the catholic church in doing a RITUAL at 12 years old and they THINK that will make them SAVED but it WON’T you HAVE TO TRULY KNOW in your heart what Jesus DID FOR YOU and REPENT OF YOUR SINS and believe that Jesus died and rose again on the cross and you have to be of the age of ACCOUNTABILITY which means that you UNDERSTAND and can EXPLAIN what JESUS did for you but they DONT and thus they say Oh I was saved but then FELL AWAY and came back to Jesus at 20 years old” well IF YOU ARE TRULY BORN AGAIN YOU CANNOT FALL AWAY !!! ok that is a person who has had a FALSE CONVERSION and was not TRULY born again at ALL !

You perish for lack of knowlege and to show you that this is TRUE I can give you a teaching in my notes on FB if you want to go there, they are totally ALL PUBLIC and you can check out all the scriputres that Jesus gave to me, My sheep HEAR my VOICE’ if you DON’T HEAR GOD then you are NOT BORN AGAIN ! ok

Joseph Essien-Obot

My dear, you have a looong road ahead of you. Haven’t started yet.

mamabear111

What you believe is truth, one thing, we are all sinners saved by Grace and Faith in G-d. G-d hated paganism and traditions of men and those who said they are righteous , but HE said no one is without sin and if they say they are they are of antichrist. so if we truly give our life to Christ which is the only way, we will sin at time and we are so ashamed, but HE is faithful to forgive in true sorrow. IF we could be saved and never sin again, then there would be no reason for HIM to die on the cross for us. as far as religion, G-d warned us of religion, why, because it is ONLY a personal relationship with Christ , the only way. and there are so many in these days of great apostasy that are following false cults and teachings and we are told to know our history so we don’t repeat it. but people do not bother. loving the world is treason in heaven, we cannot serve two masters. the catholic cult changed the precious Sabbath to Sunday, the sun god day. and also put MOhamad in to business who came about 800 yrs after Christ. I am sure most of you seen the picture of the pope kissing the Karan. WE know we are NOT to call anyone FATHER but G-d, G-d is the only one who can carry that name…Those who do not believe HE IS our councler, Prince of Peace and everylasting Father is of antichrist and that HE is the only way to heaven. for any man or pope to call himself Father is pure blasphemy and a unforgiveable sin and those who support the false teaching and think he can forgive like Yeshua does is dead wrong. and yes they do hold Mary up higher than Christ. let the dead be dead and we are not to go there. To be brought up in Catholic is why so many think it is true. but we are to bring our children up in the way they should go..It doesn’t surprise me that so much apostasy and such false teaching is out there or that so many have falledn and joined it as well..but it grieves me. The L-rd said, when Israel becomes a nation, we are the generation that will see HIM. Israel became a nation in 1948 and so we are in the 69th yr all but over. G-d said, it is better to belive G-d than man..the two thousand yrs Is all but up and 2000 yrs is like a day to the L-rd. get close to G-d, do the best you can to live for HIM as HE gave us the popwer to stay true, not perfect. HE is the only perfect one. in REV 4:1 HE tells us after talking to the churches in Rev on thru four..to count ourselves worthy to escape the things coming down on the earth. we are in the last time of sorrows and the tribulation is going to start when they force Israel to sign a peace agreement, and world war 3 which Is here and will grow to all over the world , hell here. no one will have an excuse as He says. Shalom.

warriorbride

The Catholic church just signed up with the MUSLIMS and all the FALSE TEACHERS TO START THIS ONE WORLD RELIGION AND ONE WORLD ILLUMINATI GOVT ! WAKE UP !!! THEY HAVE BEEN SEEN AT A SATANIST GROUP WORSHIPING satan ! HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU NEED TO SEE THAT THEY DO NOT FOLLOW GOD AT ALL !!!

Joseph Essien-Obot

I know, I know. First format information is always true, especially if it fits into our world view. Maybe you should surprise yourself look at alternative narratives, then judge for yourself which is which.

Rebecca

The Bible speaks of men like this. They are to be marked and avoided.

Fallenman4Jesus

Not surprising these three wolves in sheep’s clothing are united. What a shame too, cause I have heard some of Rick Warren sermons and he must have sold his soul for popularity and riches. Osteen and Jakes have always been there. Makes me sick …

Peter Leh

yet you are not kicking the fat people out of church… the gays? yes.. fat people.. well let us be reasonable.

double minded indeed.

Rebecca

No assuming one, that is an issue too.

Peter Leh

So where is the church disciple. A gay person can stay in the closest and “fool others” but the glutton’s sin is for ALL to see.

We KNOW what they are doing.

(BTW i am not advocating this just pointing of the cherry pickers around here)

Fallenman4Jesus

Actively practicing sodomites cannot be members of the church of Jesus Christ. Can a sodomite repent, profess Jesus as savior and Lord and still struggle with his/her sinful desires? Yes. But can a sodomite openly practice that sin, expect others to accept him/her for what they ‘are’ and think they are a Christian? No way! Do I struggle with sin daily? Yes, but I don’t insist that others accept that I am a Christian and continue in my sin. That’s the difference.

Rebecca

Good point. Fat people don’t force their choice to overeat others.
(I’m aware there is a small portion of the population that has a medical condition that makes them gain weight, they are not who I am talking about though(

Peter Leh

“Good point. Fat people don’t force their choice to overeat others”

In the same way gays do force their sex on others. Yet somehow serving food to a gay person is “participating in their sin” while the fat folks come back for seconds!

as christians are we crazy or what?

Peter Leh

“Actively practicing sodomites cannot be members of the church of Jesus Christ”

and neither can gluttons… so were is the church disciple for the fat people?

Keep proving my point of double standard sand double mindedness.

xdrfox

He said he came in his name, to Congress, not God, Not Jesus, He said no prayers or held Grace… go read what he said, he came as a moral figure ??? Nothing about Gay Marrige or abortions or selling of baby parts..
Now he has been in his high command for over 2 years and has done nothing to go after or name names waiting for the Statue of limitations to run out so no prosecutions will happen to them that have abused ?? to most sacred we have … way more then enough said…

Don Hamilton

Not sure what locking arms with heretics for the purpose of making the world more moral is a good idea. No mater how ethical a society is, without the true Christ, it is to no avail.

Bingo

I can certainly see the effort to be at peace with one another….but, Amen, Jordan Standridge!

Chrissy Vee

TD Jakes “When I think of the Roman Catholic Church and their belief in Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection…” Except Jorge called Jesus’ death on the cross a failure on Jesus’ part.

These men were invited because they, like Obama and Jorge, support the coming global religion. As of now it is being called Chrislam.

Peter Leh

“Except Jorge called Jesus’ death on the cross a failure on Jesus’ part.”

integrity.

so what exactly was said. and what did he mean by it?

not what you THINK he said and what YOU think was meant.

Chrissy Vee

I would actually quote him, but you are so blinded by your faith in him, you will probably say he meant something else. Look it up yourself.

Peter Leh

It really is rhetorical as what you quoted and inferred is not correct.
Misrepresenting…. lying one might say.

I have just as much faith in him as i do in you. 🙂

we all deserve the respect to be represented with integrity.

Chrissy Vee

Please forgive my presumption. It was based on a misunderstanding of your comments.

Peter Leh

“Please forgive my presumption. It was based on a misunderstanding of your odd comments.”

A rush limbaugh fan. He started conservative talk radio as we know it. There would be no Fox News or talk radio as it is today without EL Rushbo.

now a ditto head may be a broad term for any conversation talk radio listener and Fox News fan.

Chrissy Vee

Oh! haha. I never listened to either but from what I do know about Rushbo, we would get along swimmingly. The name “ditto head” just has a belittling connotation to it. Hence my reaction. I was the ignorant one. Sorry again :/. I need to seek God for more wisdom and self control in my reactions.
As far as talk radio, I only listen to a Christian sermons station. Peace.

Peter Leh

“As far as talk radio, I only listen to a Christian sermons station. Peace.”

trust me when i say, that is better than talk radio. 🙂

Nora Fernandez

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made
white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none
of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Luther Page

The Bible says you are not to associate with, dine with, pray for, or bid God speed to anybody who teaches something other than what the Bible teaches.. The pope(anti-Christ) doesn’t even worship the true and living God, Jesus Christ.. Anyone who bows before the pope and calls themselves a Christian total disrespects and dishonor Christ.. Jakes and Olsten denies that Christ is the only way to God anyway, so….

This would be the same pope who has announced that there is no Hell, no Adam and Eve and that everyone gets to go to Heaven whether they believe in God or not. That would be the all loving, all encompassing, non-judgemental god(small g)

Ax2root

Christians can be deluded in soul when their minds are NOT RENEWED in the ” rightly divided” Word of God,

It is particularly harmful when they are LEADERS PREACHING BLASHEMY.

Rick Warren and the Pope preach the BLASHEMY of Chrislam which says that Muslims and Christians serve the same god. THIS IS EVIL BLASHEMY

Islam denies that God has a Son.

Islam denies the Truth about the death burial resurrection and Ascension of Jesus Christ.

Islam curses anyone who believes that God has a Son.

BLASHEMY

vogelgesang

Loving people into the kingdom is sharing with them the Truth ,Jesus did , it wasn’t easy for Him then either when He said ” I’am The Way , The Truth and The Life no one goes to The Father except through Me ” . Some people suggest everybody will go to heaven , then why would Jesus came to die ? Heaven is real and Hell also !
Strong statement ” for all have sinned and fallen short of The Glory of God ”

Jesus said One must be born again to see The kingdom of God

Growing up as a catholic I do not remember priest encouraging us to read/studying the scriptures and many who are joining the catholics church are drifting from reading and/or studying the scriptures which we are encouraged to do

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