That lineup looks great on paper, but depending on cost for the two FA's

I was thinking back to when Breaston was first in the league, mainly just a special teams guy and speedy slot man. Which is what Benjamin should be this year if cribbs goes. breaston made it in the league bc he could return punts. But again depends on what the asking price is, has anyone heard a rumored figure?

Trey may have learnd from the Chipper fiasco and laerned the axiom of "undepromise and over deliver".

I get a sense a splash is coming.

Man, are you gonna be mad come a week after FA begins.

Not saying they won't go after some of those guys, but I see their haul as being meager. Almost all FA's get overpaid, but the Browns will have to Ridiculously overpay, and that doesn't seem to be a Banner thing to do.

They'll pull in a few non-splash guys (much like Heckert did) and fall back on the Build-Through-The-Draft mantra.

Trey may have learnd from the Chipper fiasco and laerned the axiom of "undepromise and over deliver".

I get a sense a splash is coming.

Man, are you gonna be mad come a week after FA begins.

Not saying they won't go after some of those guys, but I see their haul as being meager. Almost all FA's get overpaid, but the Browns will have to Ridiculously overpay, and that doesn't seem to be a Banner thing to do.

They'll pull in a few non-splash guys (much like Heckert did) and fall back on the Build-Through-The-Draft mantra.

Not my take my man. Just passing it along.

They may have learned to avoid the hyperbole in the event of epic fail. If they fail they don't have to backpeddle. The one thing we all know is money talks for these profile guys. They aren't on the back 9 yet and this is their opportunity to get that gwop. These aren't high pick bonus babies. Now is they shot to stack the chedda like theys Middlefield Amish.

C.R.E.A.M. Dolla dolla bill,y'all.

So i don't discount anything.

Butt, you have to care to get mad. My give a damn is still broke. ID care what Bumble & Bumble do yet. I wait. I watch. Flagpole sitta.

I see Chud and Norv as considering themselves "TE Creator" and believing they can take Super Freaky Athletic Basketball Dude and turn him into Jimmy Graham.

They have cash to spend, but I don't see it at TE.

All well and good and I agree Cameron will be TE1.

But Turner runs two TE set and you're going to get a whammer type TE in draft/FA and FA makes more sense.

Watson is old and FA and Alex Smith blows and is a FA (though, to his defense, he's a better blocker than any other TE on the roster) and Smelley is way too light and hybrid-y to be the guy here.

Delanie Walker would be my choice because he can catch the ball, because he's a witch on STs and because he can also plat TE/FB and loves the blocking part of each. Couple years younger than Smith too although Smith was cheap.

But there will be another TE here IMO. One who wasn't on roster last season and will be the Yan to Cameron's Yin.

Also, I think I read where Gocong is actually signed for two more seasons. Makes me nervous coming off achilles injury, bbut if they go cheap and in house he could be competing for that MIKE spot at 6'2" 260lbs.

I'll bet we see a low end TE come here for depth, or a re-signing of Smith....couple with a 3/4th round pick of some hyper athletic freak with little experience. (I'd like to see Kelce here if he drops to the 3rd, or a trade down 2-3 spots for an extra second that gets used on him)

Browns just can't fill the defensive side of the ball with UDFA and the draft; would be a complete disaster. They'll have to bring in at least one experienced 3-4 OLB, and slide Fort/Goong/DCQ/JMJ to the inside two backers.

Need at least 4 guys to rotate on the outside, and currently you have 1 project (Sheard) and zero depth. (Unless you consider Stephens depth, but meh)

Not a one year fix, but you'll have to get SOMEONE. Ellerbe would be nice on the inside, but you're still left with a gaping hole on the outside.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

peeker643 wrote:Ellerbee and DQWell are redundant. Same guy. Both are Wills and require a Mike to suck up FBs, etc and let them diagnose and run.

Confused. Weak side usually - will, SS = sam? You mean the two ILBs, Ike & Eagle ILB's in some terminology?

I see your point that they are about the same size, but it "feels" like Ellerbe plays stouter at POA. Since ray-Ray is overrated as hell the past 2 seasons and couldn't run he did what he was asked to do. IDK that he couldn't play the traditional stay at home ILB. Then again, with Horton IDK if they will stay in those traditional roles. It may be a good thing that they could be interchangeable in the hopey-changie-hybrid.

All I DO know is Ellerbe is one hell of alot better than JMJ or Tank. And we need some provn vet LBers.

We are so damn far under the cap and this is shaping up to be a REALLY good FA year for those young, second contract guys who can play. many teams seem more capped out thatn in the past.

This seems like a great year to make an aggressive play and change trajectory.

I think the pendulum has swung too far anti-FA. People repeat "you have to build theu the draft and fill holes with FA when you are close" so much as it they parrott a line. The goal is to improve your football team. This year the Browns have a huge amount of cap space and there are not only positions of need to fill holes, but a lot of really young talented players. It's worth overpaying for a Paul Krueger, IMhO, than getting a "bargain" on a Shaun Phillips. One really could be a building block at his career stage an dthe other is a vet band aid. That's where FA doesn't work for teams like the Browns in their carer arc. But if I can be aggressive in FA and fill a hold AND do it wiotyh a young buidling block AND have cap room, where is the downside? And failing to do so year after year is why we fail toi maximize the draft. We're always reaching out of need.

Plenty of terminology out there but I always grew up with Mike and Will (Will being weak inside and Mike inside opposite Will).

But yes, Ellerbee and D'Qwell, (though I grant Ellerbee may be more stout and D'Qwell faster) are similar read/diagnose/get to ball kind of LBs. Ellerbee brings more when he gets and D'Qwell gets there a bit faster.

And don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them spend money in a lot of areas, mostly defensive, and I'd love Ellerbee here. But I think even with a big budget they appropriate the funds in biggest areas of need and D'Qwell is a good football player, better with a big LB next to him.

jb wrote:

peeker643 wrote:Ellerbee and DQWell are redundant. Same guy. Both are Wills and require a Mike to suck up FBs, etc and let them diagnose and run.

Confused. Weak side usually - will, SS = sam? You mean the two ILBs, Ike & Eagle ILB's in some terminology?

I see your point that they are about the same size, but it "feels" like Ellerbe plays stouter at POA. Since ray-Ray is overrated as hell the past 2 seasons and couldn't run he did what he was asked to do. IDK that he couldn't play the traditional stay at home ILB. Then again, with Horton IDK if they will stay in those traditional roles. It may be a good thing that they could be interchangeable in the hopey-changie-hybrid.

All I DO know is Ellerbe is one hell of alot better than JMJ or Tank. And we need some provn vet LBers.

We are so damn far under the cap and this is shaping up to be a REALLY good FA year for those young, second contract guys who can play. many teams seem more capped out thatn in the past.

This seems like a great year to make an aggressive play and change trajectory.

I think the pendulum has swung too far anti-FA. People repeat "you have to build theu the draft and fill holes with FA when you are close" so much as it they parrott a line. The goal is to improve your football team. This year the Browns have a huge amount of cap space and there are not only positions of need to fill holes, but a lot of really young talented players. It's worth overpaying for a Paul Krueger, IMhO, than getting a "bargain" on a Shaun Phillips. One really could be a building block at his career stage an dthe other is a vet band aid. That's where FA doesn't work for teams like the Browns in their carer arc. But if I can be aggressive in FA and fill a hold AND do it wiotyh a young buidling block AND have cap room, where is the downside? And failing to do so year after year is why we fail toi maximize the draft. We're always reaching out of need.

jb wrote:I think the pendulum has swung too far anti-FA. People repeat "you have to build theu the draft and fill holes with FA when you are close" so much as it they parrott a line. The goal is to improve your football team. This year the Browns have a huge amount of cap space and there are not only positions of need to fill holes, but a lot of really young talented players. It's worth overpaying for a Paul Krueger, IMhO, than getting a "bargain" on a Shaun Phillips. One really could be a building block at his career stage an dthe other is a vet band aid. That's where FA doesn't work for teams like the Browns in their carer arc. But if I can be aggressive in FA and fill a hold AND do it wiotyh a young buidling block AND have cap room, where is the downside? And failing to do so year after year is why we fail toi maximize the draft. We're always reaching out of need.

I think you're probably preaching to the choir with the fan base.

It's the this-is-how-so-and-so-did-it-this-is-how-we'll-do-it stuck-in-the-box Front Office types are the ones that need a talking to.

peeker643 wrote:Plenty of terminology out there but I always grew up with Mike and Will (Will being weak inside and Mike inside opposite Will).

But yes, Ellerbee and D'Qwell, (though I grant Ellerbee may be more stout and D'Qwell faster) are similar read/diagnose/get to ball kind of LBs. Ellerbee brings more when he gets and D'Qwell gets there a bit faster.

And don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them spend money in a lot of areas, mostly defensive, and I'd love Ellerbee here. But I think even with a big budget they appropriate the funds in biggest areas of need and D'Qwell is a good football player, better with a big LB next to him.

jb wrote:

peeker643 wrote:Ellerbee and DQWell are redundant. Same guy. Both are Wills and require a Mike to suck up FBs, etc and let them diagnose and run.

Confused. Weak side usually - will, SS = sam? You mean the two ILBs, Ike & Eagle ILB's in some terminology?

I see your point that they are about the same size, but it "feels" like Ellerbe plays stouter at POA. Since ray-Ray is overrated as hell the past 2 seasons and couldn't run he did what he was asked to do. IDK that he couldn't play the traditional stay at home ILB. Then again, with Horton IDK if they will stay in those traditional roles. It may be a good thing that they could be interchangeable in the hopey-changie-hybrid.

All I DO know is Ellerbe is one hell of alot better than JMJ or Tank. And we need some provn vet LBers.

We are so damn far under the cap and this is shaping up to be a REALLY good FA year for those young, second contract guys who can play. many teams seem more capped out thatn in the past.

This seems like a great year to make an aggressive play and change trajectory.

I think the pendulum has swung too far anti-FA. People repeat "you have to build theu the draft and fill holes with FA when you are close" so much as it they parrott a line. The goal is to improve your football team. This year the Browns have a huge amount of cap space and there are not only positions of need to fill holes, but a lot of really young talented players. It's worth overpaying for a Paul Krueger, IMhO, than getting a "bargain" on a Shaun Phillips. One really could be a building block at his career stage an dthe other is a vet band aid. That's where FA doesn't work for teams like the Browns in their carer arc. But if I can be aggressive in FA and fill a hold AND do it wiotyh a young buidling block AND have cap room, where is the downside? And failing to do so year after year is why we fail toi maximize the draft. We're always reaching out of need.

Kevin Costner would understand this as the Postman GM.

See - I've evolved Peeker. I don't stand pissing andmoanong until after I understand what you are saying exactly. ;-)

I guess I need to understand more of what Horton is actually looking for, yah know?

Does he seek a bull rush OLB/DE type who does both and two more classic ILB's and one faster WS OLB?

Does he want 2 nbook end rushers and two nterchangable ILBs?

Or that classic leBeua 3 - 4 where you have to big OLBs who are similar and a stay at home ILB and chaser ILB.

And I agree with Jason on Kruger. Buyer beware. If he lines up over RTs then you're okay. But he was dependent on Suggs and on beating that RT much of the time. Put him over a teams LT and best lineman and I wonder if you're getting what you think you're getting.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have him, just that those who think this guys is LT are going to be disappointed.

Horton was this year's token black guy interview, there is absolutely no reason to be concerned about him actually getting a job in the good ole boy league.

Perry Fewell interviewed for 700 jobs when he was token black guy, never getting close to one. Leslie Frasier was in the same boat until Childress blew so bad he actually got an interim gig.

Token Black Interview Candidate is never a serious threat to get a job in the NFL unless the forward thinking Irish Rooney's have an open job. The only other way a black guy gets a gig in the NFL is if he is promoted w/in his org or coaches for the Pats.

I'm Hoping for Lewis and Toler, best case scenario, I also think Cason would be looked at as a nickel CB.

At S Gouldson is the best of the bunch, but if we spend money elsewhere I like Delmas on an incentive deal, if he's healthy he's a stud. Patrick Chung is a name I keep hearing, but hopefully only as depth, he's shown nothing in NE.

e0y2e3 wrote:Horton was this year's token black guy interview, there is absolutely no reason to be concerned about him actually getting a job in the good ole boy league.

Perry Fewell interviewed for 700 jobs when he was token black guy, never getting close to one. Leslie Frasier was in the same boat until Childress blew so bad he actually got an interim gig.

Token Black Interview Candidate is never a serious threat to get a job in the NFL unless the forward thinking Irish Rooney's have an open job. The only other way a black guy gets a gig in the NFL is if he is promoted w/in his org or coaches for the Pats.

Not to mention a dude who won 10 games last season was passed up for fucking Doug Marrone amongst others.

e0y2e3 wrote:Horton was this year's token black guy interview, there is absolutely no reason to be concerned about him actually getting a job in the good ole boy league.

Perry Fewell interviewed for 700 jobs when he was token black guy, never getting close to one. Leslie Frasier was in the same boat until Childress blew so bad he actually got an interim gig.

Token Black Interview Candidate is never a serious threat to get a job in the NFL unless the forward thinking Irish Rooney's have an open job. The only other way a black guy gets a gig in the NFL is if he is promoted w/in his org or coaches for the Pats.

Not to mention a dude who won 10 games last season was passed up for fucking Doug Marrone amongst others.

I think that if Horton can turn the lowly Browns' D around, he'll be a prime candidate for a HC job. He's got that outgoing personality that owners and fans like. Lovie, despite all his success, always has teams that fade on him and has a milquetoast personality to boot. He's not going to inspire the less educated owners.

It's why Chucky still gets mentioned for jobs all the time when he should've dropped off the radar long ago.

motherscratcher wrote:Ah hell no. Rumors popping up on twitter all night that the Browns are interested in/trying to trade for Mallet.

I'm not interested in his big slow ass, especially at what it would cost to pry him for Hoodie. Besides, isn't a weeds Mallet already, only with an orange tinge?

Now that Alex Smith, Matt Moore and Brian Hoyer are off the market, the tune may be changing. One NFL source tells The Plain Dealer he expects the Browns to try to strike up a deal for Mallett even though another source believes Patriots head coach Bill Belichick will be reluctant to part with him.

As far as reports go, it's on the weak side. There's no indication from any source directly connected with the Browns that they plan to pursue Mallett.

Well, Mallet is about 5 years younger with more NFL experience in a far better organization.

No idea if that means he can play. Just the facts. Which means he has three characteristics right there that I like better than what Weeden brings.

And again with Mallet, more so than Weeden in college, it was never question of can he play/can he throw, but more a question of when he'd stop being an asshole and when he'd grow up.

Maybe he has. If that's the case then biggest question to me would be what happens if he experiences success? Douchebag again or mature enough to deal better with it? Plus we haven't had a hip-hop whiteboy wannabe QB since Frye left. I miss that.

He's not being dealt for #6, we have no 2nd rounder. I'd give up a 3rd for him as opposed to drafting a project QB in 3rd.

YMMV

ETA- He's 6'7" 253lbs, bigger than Weeden or Roethlisberger.

This is his Combine report FYI- I do like the 'competitor' and 'commands a huddle' parts. And I have to imagine the maturity thing has been, if not cured, improved if he's lasted with Pats.

OVERVIEW

Mallett has the arm strength and size of a franchise NFL quarterback but still needs to continue to develop his accuracy and decision-making consistency. Can drive the ball down field and hit the deep out. When drop mechanics are sound, shows the ability to stick the ball into tiny windows. Has played in pro-style systems and understands reads and progressions but is still prone to taking some risks. Release is natural and over-the-top. Exhibits leadership qualities on the field but front offices will want to further investigate his character and ability to take coaching. Mallett's a really enticing package and will likely come off the board in round one.

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS Mallett possesses prototypical size. Has elite arm strength and can make all the throws. Displays smooth mechanics. Fluid, over-the-top delivery. Will fit the ball into tight spots and shows good overall accuracy. Has experience in the pro-style passing game. Good pocket mobility, can buy second chances and keeps his head down field. Fierce competitor and can command the huddle.

WEAKNESSES Flashes the ability to run through progressions but has lapses in judgment and can force throws when pressured. Accuracy is solid but needs to become more consistent. Ball will sail when footwork gets sloppy. Does not have the athleticism to pick up much yardage with his feet at the next level. Potential maturity/character issues.

My trepidation isn't with Mallet necessarily. Sure, in a vacuum I'd take him over Weeden, I guess. My problem comes with the reported price tag Hoodster is writing on his forehead with a shiny grease marker. I've heard no lower than a second rounder, which makes me think that if the Browns end up with him it will involve either ths year' or next year's first. And the involvement of Lombardo is doing nothing for my ulcer.

Now, for this year's 3rd?...eh, I guess so. If he doesn't pan out its not crippling, I guess, although a wasted pick is a wasted pick. I'd feel much better about it if they do use that cap space to infused some young talent at around 4 positions, not that our expect a third rounder to step in and start anyway.

Ultimately I don't see the point in "upgrading" from Weeden to Mallet. Meh to a slightly different shade of meh is pointless. The position clearly need an upgrade, but I don't see that out there right now so I'm fine sticking with Weeden for the time being.

The single best reason to go after Mallet would be so we don't have to read Peek bitch about Weeden being history's worst monster anymore. And as wonderful as that would be, it's no way to build a football team

He's back in that war room, saying, Oh look, the team that drafted a guy last year at 28 is on the hook. Our guy won't be that old till Brady retires! (laughter around the room) At 25 they might think he just got out of high school. (more chortling.)

Don't get distracted by the shiny objects. Other than Wallace the Browns have contacted the agents of just about every name FA we've bandied about you want, and no 30 something's need apply; that's good.