With those new spells in our arsenal resto Druid's will be worth more than only 1 spot/raid - something that most raid setups in Sunwell won't allow.

Comment by sigi

plant a Living Seed on the target for 30% of the amount healed.

Is this the effective healing from the spell crit or the whole spell?

Like if I crit 10 000 healing touch, but 4000 of it was overheal - will the seed then be a 3000 heal or a 1800 heal?

Comment by Delien

I've seen a few people ask this question, but it does NOT proc on Lifebloom crits.

Comment by Eskinda

So when the seed "pops" it is just an instant heal? So it works the same way as prayer of mending as when you get hit, it heals you, it's not some over time heal (which is kind of what it sounds like considering it's a seed, but whatever). Just making sure. Thanks.

-Eskinda

Comment by razzem

The important question is: does it look cool?

Priests that go Discipline get http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47515, which is very similar. Upon crit, a preventative shield is placed on the target which absorbs damage for 30% of the crit amount. The DA graphic looks like a hamster ball.

One of you guys should post a picture of Living Seed. Click on the link above to see the picture that someone has posted of DA for comparison of visual effects!

Comment by Shiesty

@ MihaiLungThe differences you bring up about prayer of mending and living seed apear to be true, except for the overhealing portion. Mainly because it triggers after the the tank is hit next. Which basically negates the next incoming damage attack rather than over healing the tank.

Comment by Foobear

Living Seed seems rather weak in raids atm. It only seems to heal for 30% effective healing, not overhealing, making it heal for very low values when you heal at tank. Also, the healing done by this will probably just be overhealing anyway, because when the target gets hit next, your regrowth tick would heal it next anyway.I have tested this in a fight where i healed mostly with regrowth, and it came out to ~3% healing done by living seed. Maybe it's different in 5 man groups.

Comment by Aggroboy

When the recipient is at full health with living seed, it heals *before* the next damage is applied, not after. This is unlike Earth Shield which heals after damage is done. The mechanic is terrible.

The big question is if Blizzard actually intended it this way.

Comment by Primalfury

I will throw this out there. For newer druid tanks this is amazing. Our druid tank sits at 34k health buffed, but he does not have as much damage mitigation as our warrior. This means you will see a drop from 34k to 26K on a big hit. Hit with regrowth for 6000 + 30% he is almost back to full. With your other hots he is at full. The more health your tank has the more useful this talent is.

It is also an incredible talent for the Instructor Razuvious fight in Naxx. The DK's that are controlled have 484K life but they get hit like trucks. The seed is never wasted on this fight.

Comment by mimicron

Think about it as a second http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=17116 .Edit. Tell me, where my opinion is flawed. It basically serves the same purpose in saving tank. Due to much lower cooldown (few regrowth casts with http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=17078 ) the effect as well is smaller.Edit2. My regrowth crits for 8 k with glyph, so you need just 3 of them for your best case scenario. In 3 min fight living seen will heal more than NS+HT.Have you seen 15 k HT crit? I went oom while trying to get one."Living seed is not a panic, keep the tank up ability, it's simply a keep the tank constantly topped off while taking burst." I don't get it, please more basic English. Did you mean those situations? "Tank has few hp -> NS+HT-> Tank has full hp" for first case and "Tank has medium hp->Regrowth+LS->Tank has full hp+buffer for some incoming damage".Edit3. The accent was on crit, not on 15 k healing. Now, at 19% crit self buffed, i do happen to see spell other than regrowth crits.I think that increasing the effect of spell what i would use once in 3 minutes is waste of talents if they could be used elsewhere (for me the case).If tank has dropped so low that he requires ns+ht, chances are, that he might need it in near future as well.

Comment by drooood

Good news, folks. With Patch 3.1.0 Living Seed will now account for your ineffective heals rather than just your effective heals. This wording may be confusing, but when explained, it makes sense. Basically, in 3.0.9 if you are simply topping off your target and your heal crits, your Living Seed only accounts for the amount that topped them off and not the overheal. As of 3.1.0, the Living Seed will account for the full amount of the heal, making it more effective. This should work wonders for those 15k Healing Touch crits, making the Seed bloom for nearly 5k!

Comment by drooood

Not true. My Regrowth can crit for 7k, which makes the seed another 2.1k heal. That is by no means meager.

Think about a Healing Touch critting for 16k, making the seed 4.8k. Is that meager?

Comment by mimicron

Yeah, it would be wonder if you'll see that 15 k HT crits more than once in 9 minutes.Wish this talent worked for lolbloom's bloom as well.Edit. Downrank ftw! I was pointing that resto's don't use HT(not glyphed since it reduces healing so you can't see 15 k crit), except for NS+HT, what has 3 min cd. Assuming 33% chance for crit, expected number of crits is 1 in that time interval. Since resto's don't have such huge crit % for HT, the number of crits is even lower.

Comment by Oniphire

Does the amount seeded roll if you keep landing crit heals on the target? I.E. if I crit heal someone for 5k three times before the buff expires or is consumed, would they then have a Seed that would heal for 4.5k or 1.5k?

Comment by oberondreaming

Is the healing from Living Seed considered a "direct heal"? That is, can it proc a Forethought Talisman HoT?

Comment by samarium

It's important to note that this talent is screwed twice by Mortal Strike.

A 10k crit nourish would normally leave a 3k seed. MS will halve it not once, but twice - a 5k crit nourish will leave a 1.5k seed, which will only bloom for 750, a quarter of its normal value.

It's still a great talent, and it's good to remember that not all classes have MS.

Comment by funshark222

Wouldn't this hurt? I mean your planting a seed in...

Oh snap.

Comment by spamkaze

When I plant a Living Seed on someone, does it explode on incidental or AoE damage as well as direct attacks? THe wording specifically says that the living seed blooms "when the target is attacked," rather than "when the target is damaged."

In other words, if I am raid healing (rather than tank healing), should I even bother with this one?

Comment by Glahmgold

I'm still trying to find an effective use for this talent. I haven't really been successful so far. I think its probably most useful for PVP/arena. I agree with the above comments that Healing Touch is essentially a guaranteed crit when properly talented.

Mostly I use Nourish and save healing touch (unglyphed) for "Nature's Swiftness"->"Healing Touch" when my tank takes a whallop (followed by glyphed Swiftmend, then Nourish). Meaning I rarely have the need/opportunity to apply a seed. But when I do, its when the tank is dying hard (ie enrage, ie, RAIDFAIL). Even with the seed, I'm already dumping so much overheals into the tank, that the seed has procced long before I'm done. It's overall effect if probably less than 5% of the total burst healing. Since this should rarely be necessary in raid, I prefer to put the points into something which gives me more overall return.

For my points, I find more overall utility and general 'uptime' using Revitalize instead (at the same tier). I'd rather have my pally/dk/bear topped off and able to generate threat, and use their specials. It also tops off the dps'ers from your offheal hots.

What I'm saying is the need for the seed should be minimal in raid and normal regular healing will be strong enough by itself. Go for buffing your group instead. Use seed in PVP when burst/spikey damage is more the norm and nasty procs like Darkmoon Card Death etc. can make the difference between active and spectator status.

Comment by Deszeldaryndun

Well, actually I kinda /facepalm at many druids who DON'T take Living Seed. I found it particularly useful, not only on tanks.

Though I did not figure out the exact mechanics for the seed to bloom, it seems definitely the case that it's triggered by more than just melee / physical attacks. For example, in the Mimiron-fight (especially hardmode) it always was triggered by Napalm Shells, which resulted in -> target raid member got Napalm Shell -> Regrowth or Nourish for the start und if it was a critical heal, the second tick of Napalm Shell triggered the Seed which was almost never overheal thus significantly increasing the chance of survival of the target.

Comment by acolight

I found this talent to be quite useful in ICC10, given that our setup has the first 4 bosses and the Plagueworks two-healed by disc priest + resto druid. Because we are two healing, we help each other on harder parts like Festergut 3 inhales on tank damage, or Rotface infections on raid. Living seed is invaluable there, because a resto druid resorting to Regrowth / Nourish under those circumstances is almost always some kind of heavy damage ability used, and Living Seed healing is thus applied to where its needed most; it isnt just 4-8% of total healing dependent of the fight, the Seed blooms in tough spots, thus increasing the overall efficiency of healing.

It is obviously much worse in 25mans, unless a MT healer is down and you have to take over.

Comment by abiz

I haven't raided much and the first time i raided with my guild on Magmaw using recount, living seed was about 1.5% of my overall healing, the count was around 30-40, am i doing something wrong or is living seed is only good if you max out Nature's Bounty (which i have 1/3)?

on a side note, if this talent could be changed, i wish it would proc Efflorescence on next damage.

Comment by killerteddy

When Nature's Bounty is maxed you can almost plan for Regrowth to crit (75% chance or more), this adds +30% to that healing. Regrowth may be expensive, but you can make good use of OOC proccs. Also, when your tank is about to die, or you or your mate is getting low in PvP, you don't care too much about mana. I think this talent boosts our burst heal, which is not that great otherwise.For raid healing it won't do much HPS for sure...

Comment by Emberblood

Does this stack with itself, or just replace the smaller seed.

Comment by guatafu

This talent seems weak at the moment. With T12 raid gear your Regrowth (direct heal, the HoT does not count toward the living seed) crits are about 19-23k so your Living seeds will be about 5-7k.

PvE Wise, considering best case scenario: Alysrazor, on this fight you can spam any heal freely as mana is not an issue (for those who haven't done it there is a phase where healers can recover mana fully). I abused Regrowth during this fight and afterwards checked my healing meter. Living seed was on 16th place out of 17 different heals.

PvP wise it might be worth it as every ounce of healing can be a difference between life and death and you are more likely to get direct hits rather than aoe.

Other options:Perseverance is my preferred choice 6% is indeed much lower than our shamanistic friends can benefit from but still a considerable ammount of reduced damage that adds up as time passes.

Efflorescence is a very strong choice, even if there is a lot of movement on the encounter (or pvp) you are likely to get at least 2 ticks from this for ~2700-2900, plus it benefits more than one person more often than not. People argue that on pvp you will gain little benefit from Efflorescence as you should be on constant movement. I guess those people never get slowed or stunned.

Blessing of the Grove might seem weaker on paper (it adds about 170 per tick to rejuv x5=850) the truth is rejuv is among our top 3 heals and in pvp it will be constantly rolling on anything within your range. Keep in mind our Rejuv ticks are ~4k (plus the initial heal of ~2.5k from Gift of the Earthmother).

Edit: To clarify: I used Regrowth as an example as it is the only spell we are likely to get a crit with through the talent Nature's Bounty (60%). Critical Rating is our weakest stat and at the moment and we usually reforge it out whenever possible.

Comment by Shalelol

To note, Living Seed does not proc from damage over time attack or indirect AoE abilities, only single target attacks and certain abilities like Multi Shot and Magmaw's Lava Spit will proc it.

Comment by Conlius

I don't really know why they made this talent/spell so weak. It has been weak ever since it was introduced.

Think about the comparison (divine aegis):Divine Aegis: On critical heal of ANY healing spell (and all PoH casts), the target gets a shield. The shield stacks. The heal is effected by mortal strike, thus the shield amount is as well. However, the shield's value from there on our is not effected by MS.Living Seed: On critical heal of nourish, HT, regrowth, swiftmend, the target gets a seed. The seed does not stack. The heals initial amount takes mortal strike into consideration (of course). The seeds bloom amount also takes mortal strike into consideration. Basically gets a double nerf vs MS.

I know this is old but the spell has so much potential with a few slight changes and it never got any love. It was introduced in wrath when druids were rejuv spammers in raids or purely instant casters in pvp (so it was useless). Then in cata they made druid aoe/hots capable of critting (lifebloom, rejuv, wild growth, efflo, tranquility) but never made any synergy with this talent.

Comment by LyssaWoW

Now only procs <100% health, making it a little less useless, and can stack making it even more less useless!

But, once it reaches its maximum heal value, further critical heals no longer refresh the duration, so spamming Regrowth pre-pull won't definitely give you a ~200k "free" heal when the tank takes damage if you hit the maximum value 15 seconds before the fight begins.

Comment by MustaCWN

Does anyone knows if this procs after (as a normal heal) or at the same time (like a kind of shield) the attack occurs?

Lets say the tank have 100K hp and a 30K living seed.

If hit by a 120K blow the tank would die? (living seed procs after the attack dmg, but the tank is already dead)Or remain with 10K hp? (living seed procs at the same time, thus working as a shield and absorbing the "killer part" of the blow)

Thanks

Comment by Skullhawk13

This really isn't very useful until heroics or raids at the very least. However, it becomes insanely useful in the aforementioned situations. So it might not be very good to the average healer, but to a healer doing meaningful content, it's intense.