As Joe Rogan says: If you're a loser because of pot, pot just got there first.

If you weren't hanging out with women for 5 years, why did you go on so long? I know if I noticed negative side effects I'd be trying to find the culprit.

Regarding the paranoia, these symptoms do exist in some people. Anytime you're altering your brains chemistry, that may happen. For me if I smoke hash I feel paranoid, but when I remind myself that it's just a side effect of the drug, I quickly embrace the great feelings from the cannabis. Unfortunately, not everyone who uses cannabis is intelligent enough to do this. In fact, unless you're intelligent, if weed makes you feel paranoid, I would suggest you just quit.

Ofcourse I recognized the side effects like being paranoid. No intelligence needed.

So u say if you are intelligent you can just keep smoking and if you are dumb you should quit? Go to a coffeeshop in holland and watch the older addicted people in there. They have left like 40% of their brain capacity. A friend of mine smokes weed from when he was 15 and he is 25 now. He defenitely lost his normall thinking. He was in same class as I was but now he absolutely wouldn't be able to do school or what ever.

You can't just prevent ThedroHydroCabinol to harm your brain with the weapon of *intelligence*... Mariuana damages the brain for sure. Ever noticed any problems with short term thinking? Probably not because you use the power of intelligence

Ever heard of spell check? Man. Anyways, you're overgeneralizing regarding the coffee shops. Also, using the word "addicted" regarding weed just sounds silly. But then again, people can get addicted to food,coffee,cigarettes,washing their hands, exercise, dieting, etc.

Sadly, your best example is your friend smoking weed for 10 years? Your friend sounds like a big idiot, and just happens to smoke weed. As arrogant as it is to say, I'd crush school if I went back, and I smoke weed most days. One of my classmates a couple years ago smoked weed before every class and finished with a 98% average.

You claim cannabis damages the brain, sorry that's untrue. The only time those allegations get mentioned are by the idiot pundits on American television.

Don't worry, you're not the first uninformed person to try having an opinion. Perhaps look into the subject, weighing evidence on both sides instead of useless anecdotes. Actually being familiar with the facts regarding subject material facilitates better conversation. Thanks.

When did anyone here say it's harmless as water? I just think weed gets enough false and negative press from the controlled media.

But Geef is clearly clueless on the subject, so there's no real need for me to try debating the subject with him.

Joe Rogan has said he didn't really smoke weed regularly until he was 30 because of the negative press associated with it.

Here is the danger with pretending weed is dangerous: A kid tries weed after he's told it's dangerous, addictive and all that bs. He sees how harmless weed is, and now wonders if the news is also lying about whether harder drugs like cocaine, meth etc are also harmless.

Here is the danger with pretending weed is dangerous: A kid tries weed after he's told it's dangerous, addictive and all that bs. He sees how harmless weed is, and now wonders if the news is also lying about whether harder drugs like cocaine, meth etc are also harmless.

But anyway, if you agree it's not as harmless as water, would you mind sharing what the harms of pot are? Also, if you don't mind, which of those harms are able to be countered by intelligence alone and which aren't? Since you hold others to this standard, actual scientific evidence of your claims would be appreciated instead of your personal anecdotes.

If someone tells you that a drug can make you addicted, paranoid, etc. then you go try that drug and all you do is laugh harder than usual and eat doritos, aren't you going to wonder whether actual hard drugs are as bad as the claims?

And gangsta, since you enjoy quoting me, perhaps you'll re read those exact posts earlier where I say that those are simply my personal experiences, and some of the friends I know.

Would my claims pass the litmus test of science? I doubt it. But then again, poker hypnosis has lots of people proclaiming it "cured' their tilt, even though in terms of science the jury is still out.

I know that this contradicts what I've said earlier probably. And maybe this means I'm learning new things that are changing my position. Maybe it means I'm an idiot.

In terms of the harms:
BBC documentary on pot mentioned that daily users under 15 are more likely to show signs of schizophrenia. Tests on similarly aged mice (under 15 by human years) given regular doses of cannabis also skilled poorly in competency tests.

I wouldn't recommend people under 18 use it. And I wouldn't recommend someone wakenbake and be high for their entire life. As with most areas of life, balance is essential.

I hope I've made myself more clear, and if not, feel free to show my mistakes.

If someone tells you that a drug can make you addicted, paranoid, etc. then you go try that drug and all you do is laugh harder than usual and eat doritos, aren't you going to wonder whether actual hard drugs are as bad as the claims?

Quote:

Originally Posted by winnercircle

In terms of the harms:
BBC documentary on pot mentioned that daily users under 15 are more likely to show signs of schizophrenia. Tests on similarly aged mice (under 15 by human years) given regular doses of cannabis also skilled poorly in competency tests.

I'm so lost. You say it's harmless and kids will discover it doesn't make them paranoid. Then, citing real evidence, you say it is harmful and can induce psychosis. I know you're ok contradicting yourself but at least wait more than 4 minutes before doing so.

I'd say my experience has been the opposite of yours, Brain. I have worked many years in physical labour (furniture/appliance mover, carpenter, pipefitter, concrete) and all have 50%+ potheads. With the hardest jobs, concrete and moving appliances having 80+% potheads. It makes those jobs bearable since they're so labour intensive. I worked 50-60 hours a week and did those jobs for a long time.

Also, if you ever go to raves, you'll probably get baked with a dozen people you never knew before, and weed is certainly a social drug. You can't drink 9 beers with strangers and think you won't stumble onto a topic that starts a fight. Smoke a few joints with people who share opposing opinions and you'll have spirited debate, and both will come away having learned something.

I'm not saying that weed didn't make you anti-social or lazy, but it is more likely that other things are the reason for your experience. If a smoker quits smoking and starts saving money, is it fair to say they're better at managing money now that they don't smoke? Or are there other factors?

If someone quits doing hard drugs, and stops hanging out with their large social circle of habitual users, they may feel antisocial. Did quitting the drugs make them antisocial?

Stop trying to associate two independent concepts to make sense of things. It's more dangerous that lazy people love to use Cannabis as the whipping boy for all their woes.

Lots of potheads are loser falldown antisocial lazy weirdos. They are this way with or without pot. If cannabis were truly the cause of these things, wouldn't some university try to study it? Oh wait, anyone with even a general grasp of psychology would realize how big of a stretch linking these 2 is.

I have nothing further to add. Lazy people are gonna forever make excuses for why they are lazy, forgetting that they were lazy before weed, and more than likely will be lazy within a few weeks/months after quitting weed. The end.

This is all anecdotal, bro. Dude, face it, you are a drug addict. That is the only scientific fact I have read in this thread. You seem to be functional and that is good, but you sound like an ignorant child in denial.

Drugs and alcohol are fun until you use them solely to escape your problems and responsibilities. I know doctors, lawyers and teachers who smoke weed. Rest assured they are not doing it every day, but when its time to relax and have a little trip away from the norm, they are all about it. That is good stuff.

There are lots of studies on marijuana. It is generally considered to be a relatively benign drug but it is known to cause amotivational syndrome. Google it.

If you don't want to be stressed while smoking, then take some time off and figure out where you want to be in life and take the appropriate initial steps to get there. Once you are well on your way, relax and have a smoke and enjoy yourself. I assure you that you will appreciate it much more, especially paired with a nice glass of wine or a good beer.

Winnercircle sounds content with himself and his life of physical labor, moving furniture, plumbing, carpentry, poker and whatever else so the more power to him. But if one wants more, they may have to put down the bong.

Maybe you were stoned when u wrote this. I wasn't comparing both drugs. I was referring to your comment: "if it works for you, do it". When does smoking weed 'work' for me, if I may ask? Do you mean if one likes it, he should do it? It doesn't make any sense. What if smoking tabac 'works' for me? You obviously never smoked weed for a long time day in day out. It's very amotivational.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winnercircle

When did anyone here say it's harmless as water? I just think weed gets enough false and negative press from the controlled media.

But Geef is clearly clueless on the subject, so there's no real need for me to try debating the subject with him.

Joe Rogan has said he didn't really smoke weed regularly until he was 30 because of the negative press associated with it.

Here is the danger with pretending weed is dangerous: A kid tries weed after he's told it's dangerous, addictive and all that bs. He sees how harmless weed is, and now wonders if the news is also lying about whether harder drugs like cocaine, meth etc are also harmless.

Maybe your local weed is not as THC filled as it is here in Amsterdam. American people come to Holland and smoke weed like they do in the US. They notice soon enough that it is a lot stronger than most of the cannabis in America. They get sick of it and have bad trips of it all the time. In Holland weed contains more than 3 times the THC it had when we 'legalized' it 33 years ago. Organisations like 'Jellinek' & 'PsyQ' ask the govournment to change the current policy to get more rid of the nowadays mariuana. It no longer belongs to the category 'soft drugs', but to 'hard drugs' (like cocaine and other hard drugs).

Please don't tell me I don't have a clue. I smoked it day in day out for 4-5 years. I know a lot about it. Probably more then you think/know.

You say that the US (?) media makes weed sound overdangerous. I think ur right in that. At least what I have seen in American movies is 100% ridiculous. They see rainbows and walk like they drank a lot of alcohol. It makes people think you go trough some kinda LSD trip from it. In Holland we always lol about that (and a lot of American people probably do so to). I can imagine that US kids who try it are amazed about the actual feeling of being stoned. "It's not that crazy", is what they prolly conclude. But what you say about the danger of kids trying more drugs because weed is exadurated by the media is not true imo. In that case the fact that so many people accept alcohol makes them kids try harder drugs as well. And some people itt were compairing it with alcohol. Of course: alcohol is a killing, accepted hard drug as wel. Stoned people can function better than drunk people for sure. But don't underestimate the effects of weed long term. It helps people to solve nothing, do nothing and it's very amotivational & addictive. It may not be physically addictive, but it's mentally addictive for sure.

Winnercircle sounds content with himself and his life of physical labor, moving furniture, plumbing, carpentry, poker and whatever else so the more power to him. But if one wants more, they may have to put down the bong.

-drug addict? ummm nope! that's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
-every internet sensation seems to know such high profile people when their argument calls for it. Is Bill Clinton one of your buddies too?
-sorry, I've been playing poker full time for 6 months. Physical labour is no longer my line of work.
-people can be more than one thing at the same time you know. some of this all or nothing debate is foolish. you can be a pothead and have a full and awesome life. anyways...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganstaman

I'm so lost. You say it's harmless and kids will discover it doesn't make them paranoid. Then, citing real evidence, you say it is harmful and can induce psychosis. I know you're ok contradicting yourself but at least wait more than 4 minutes before doing so.

-Its harmless for adults
-kids under 18 shouldn't use it
-kids under 18 will still use it anyway

what part are you lost on?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geefmede5

Maybe your local weed is not as THC filled as it is here in Amsterdam.
Please don't tell me I don't have a clue. I smoked it day in day out for 4-5 years. I know a lot about it. Probably more then you think/know.

-Doubtful. I'm from Canada, I've never even seen schwag.

anyways, this argument is definitely moot. I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. This is going nowhere.

didn't think i'd be discussing this on the poker forums but here goes......

the best way to use weed is in small doses and extreme moderation. like if ur gonna smoke, literally pack like one small pinch of a hit. and if u feel good, and all is going well u can take another small hit like 45min later when it's starting to wear off.

i say this from experience because i used to be a huge stoner who would smoke like bongloads and joints of HIGH POTENCY bud in a single sitting, daily and it seriously ruined the experience for me in the long run. like OP said, it got to the point where it was no longer a "high" but a confusing, paranoid experience because of how blitzed i was almost 24/7. i thought it was this totally harmless plant, but i did it in such excess that it was starting to wear on my mental health.

i think everyone should experience cannabis because it's an amazing drug. but the key is to do it responsibly, with respect for the substance. the dose you take has a HUGE effect on your overall experience...yes, even with something as physically safe as weed. in fact this is how i try to treat all drugs at this stage of my life...with the utmost respect for them, which means moderation of use and total awareness of potency/dose.

for example, if you're sitting there dragging joints of some 20% thc sativa, of course you might end up tweaking out. that's some dank azz bud lol....gotta respect the power of the plant.

Almost 15 years I smoked. I have 4 friends who all have smoked at least 10 years each, one still does. I have come to the conclusion that many people smoke pot to self medicate whatever issue there is that they may think needs remedied. However when one medicates a mental illness with marijuana they tend to avoid the root issue, never having to actually address the problem. In other words, I think the issues blamed on marijuana are likely the result of avoidance, something for which marijuana is definitely a helpful tool. It is not, IMO, the direct cause.

Saying the discussion is going nowhere is standard if you don't have anything better to say anymore. Ur clueless.

No, I am just aware that simpletons like yourself are never going to change your opinion no matter how many facts are in the discussion. You're just another fool who mistakes their arsehole for an opinion.

Ironic that everyone here has been chainsmoking the strongest weed on the planet for 5-10 years. Kinda similar to the morons who suddenly claim to have doctorates or masters' in whichever topic seems to be at the helm of the discussion.

i think the reason people get burnt out on weed over time is because no one is taught how to use it responsibly. in school they just tell you "don't do drugs" and then show you all the supposed bad effects without any of the positives. this in the long run makes people do more drugs, and do them irresponsibly.

so then the kid who was told never to smoke weed, tries it and has an amazing time. now he feels he's been lied to so he starts doing it compulsively because "obviously it's harmless, f*** people who told me otherwise."

but then 5 years down the road all the long term consequences of heavy use start to add up and he realizes he's been living in a haze. not because of weed, but because he abused the s*** out of weed by doing it too frequently and in too high of a dose.

erowid considers 1/10 of a gram to be a "STRONG DOSE" how many people who smoke are aware of this? when i used to smoke i would burn down 1/2 gram joins of high potency stuff sometimes cuz i didn't know any better lol (strong dose x5)....everyone should be taught what a responsible dose of weed is because it is the high dose effects that end up causing the massive paranoia, racing thoughts and all the other agonizing effects that people who smoke way too much weed generally end up experiencing.

responsible dose = less than 1/10 of a gram. like 1/20 of a gram....a pinch of bud, one hit then quit.

I think I know why I started smoking. It was some sort of defensive mechanism to cope with emotional pain. To run away from it, actualy. To cope with this pain and to be mindfull about it is only possible when you watch your feelings, understand defenses, and then try to slowly choose more rational ways then based on core belifes that come from emotional conclusions when one was a child. Profound change is possible, but it may takes years, while noone will ever be without emotions. It's just how you cope with them and what habbits you imply. But first you have to understand yourself, I guess.

I doubt I'm allowed to mention a book, but I did read some great books about psychodynamic psychotherapy and some more specificly on shame which is my main problem. So if I can help anyone with the book names, I'm glad to help.

Children love life without recourse to drugs or alcohol because they're always discovering new things. Do that instead. I've spent a lifetime using more drugs than you can name while also enjoying the odd beverage or two, and I can say from experience that there's nothing more to be said in its favor than mood alteration. Well, if all you're trying to do is be in a good mood, you certainly don't need to spend a lot of money to do that, to run the risk of arrest (where it's still illegal), or numb out to where you don't do other, more productive things nearly as well (or at all) in those hours spent buzzed. All in all, the downside means dispensing with a LOT, while the upside you can give to yourself without big expense, sleazy experiences (ever cop in an alleyway at 2 o'clock in the morning?), or a dulling of your senses. Oh, and did I mention that getting stoned has never been proved to IMPROVE one's health? Not really (though there are legitimate pain relief applications).

And if not getting high should prove a problem that's an even better reason to apply real effort to not getting high. Because if everything beside getting high seems suddenly boring (i.e., all the rest of human existence), that's the drug defeating your body's ability to release dopamine at a rate that can compete with drugs. A sunny day elevates our mood, only not as fast or as elevated as, say, pot. Or heroin. Your mind translates this into boredom. If you find yourself just too bored for words whenever you're not high, stop getting high. Play poker, instead. Winning poker.

Were you high when you wrote this? I'll bet you were. Preaching "responsible" drug use is awful. The expense both in terms of money and productive time wasted while stoned make this particular form of mood elevation about as sensible as cutting off a toe every time one itches. Alright, that's melodramatic, but I've found that people handing out this nonsense invariably haven't been 30 days without getting high (the time it takes to get pot out of your system) in ages, meaning that when they hand out this seemingly "responsible" advise it was the drug talking, not them. Post again when you haven't been high in a month but this time post something about where on the difficulty scale you would rate your having not gotten high for 30 days, in your estimation. I began getting high in 1975 and can say without fear of contradiction I've never gotten anything from it but an exorbitantly expensive mood alteration--and neither have you.

Id like to weight in here as someone who has had every type of weed habit over the last 14 years. There were time I smoked a tiny bit every day, other times I smoked a lot every day, other times I soked alot occaisonally, and other times I went long stretches without. In recent years I mostly vaporized.

Sometimes I felt weed was good for my life. Sometimes it wasn´t.

In many ways it´s just like alcohol in terms of usage. You can have a beer or 2 everyday and it really does you no harm. This is like a person who smokes just a little every day or most days. Or you can get drunk once a week and that probably won{t do you any harm. The same with getting stoned. The problem tends to come when you use heavily on a regular basis, and become an alcoholic or pothead. I tend to think being a pot head is much less harmful, and in general that pot is much less harmful, and that it has many possible benefits to a persons life when used the right way, but the main thing is that, just like alcohol, it{s pretty much fine in moderation, but not fine when abused.

Also, if you are against one, you pretty much should be against both. And likewise for being pro pot/alcohol. They are very different in effect but also very comparable in so many other ways.

And lol at the people making blanket statements about how it effects everyone. It{s quite varied in effect from person to person.

People like Former Spank E dont have a clue what they are talking about, ánd are just posting a bunch of garbage probably based on their own crappy and limited experiences. I feel sorry for people with such closed minds.