If I remember correctly TIR (Transports Internationaux Routiers) was a system which allowed goods vehicles to be sealed in the country their load originated in & to pass through intermediate borders with no requirement for customs inspection.

I'd say the same thing. We had to have the seals checked when arrived at the final destination, either a custom officer or a representing person.
In the '80s, we had a kind of hassle too. Importing certain goods from certain countries - say hi-fi from Japan - we had to discuss each year to buy what was called a licence fixing the amount of business we could make over the coming year. The way our government found to protect an industry incapable to match Pioneer or Alpine quality products for instance…

I don't think the getting of the carnets is much of an issue, the problem, or hassle, lies more with having to leave motorways to go through a border crossing to get them stamped although my memory fades from the 70s as to whether we only got a stamp at the channel port and didn't bother at each border we crossed.

You used to have to make sure that you got it stamped at every border, otherwise you couldn't show you had left the country and weren't liable for the taxes.
So if you arrived at lunch time or night time you had to wait until someone showed up.
The other issue was the cost of having a large lump of money tied up but it seems that historic racers these days have so much spare money they won't notice!!

The good news is that these days you'd probably only have to get it stamped once, when you leave the Untied Kingdom and enter Europe.
Which probably explains the recruitment drive for customs officers at Zeebrugge, Calais etc.
Hopefully the UK will find enough customs officers to avoid huge queues that side!

As before those who have road registered cars (which used to include a surprising number of single seaters!) would be treated as road cars and there should be a deal to allow them to move freely.
Trailers could be an issue though, many European countries want them registered in their own right.

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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Abraham Lincoln, 1864

So what we're saying is that it's just a little bit of extra paperwork and a wedge of money lodged with the government, the interest on which should help the National Debt. Either no problems or loads of problems at the borders, believe who you will.

The people it will hit are Iain and Simon (maybe even me!) who will probably have to employ someone else to do the paperwork, which will of course have to be passed on to the owners.

The temptation will be to say "Phuket, let's just race in the UK" which will actually be good for the local economy. Let's hope so, rather than "ah can't be @r5ed, more hassle on top of HANS, lifed seats, 8856-2018 racesuits etc etc. Time to hang up my helmet."

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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq!

I think it worth pointing out that while many bemoan the problems they face, and the increased costs etc of Brexit, the other side of the coin is that Europeans will have the same problems dealing with us.
From their perspective they have only one border to deal with, rather than multiple problems that face UK citizens.

Many like to dwell on the increased cost of imports, but never mention the increased revenue on exports. Brexit will affect not just the UK but all Euro countries, so it is likely that suitable arrangements will be put in place to the advantage of both sides.
I wonder how much 'panic' is rampant in Brussels about the effects of a hard Brexit on their economic prospects without our contributions, one of the few
net contributors.

We can make life quite difficult for many Euro countries if we choose to do so.

While not discounting the problems many on here face I feel a little more optimism would not go astray. Think of those rich foreigners wanting to race at the Classic or Revival, makes your heart bleed.

I think it worth pointing out that while many bemoan the problems they face, and the increased costs etc of Brexit, the other side of the coin is that Europeans will have the same problems dealing with us.
From their perspective they have only one border to deal with, rather than multiple problems that face UK citizens.

Many like to dwell on the increased cost of imports, but never mention the increased revenue on exports. Brexit will affect not just the UK but all Euro countries, so it is likely that suitable arrangements will be put in place to the advantage of both sides.
I wonder how much 'panic' is rampant in Brussels about the effects of a hard Brexit on their economic prospects without our contributions, one of the few
net contributors.

We can make life quite difficult for many Euro countries if we choose to do so.

While not discounting the problems many on here face I feel a little more optimism would not go astray. Think of those rich foreigners wanting to race at the Classic or Revival, makes your heart bleed.

UK should only have one border to deal with, given that once something is in the EU it is accepted everywhere, of course there will be a lot of different entry points but only one set of entry paperwork to deal with.

It really isn't the most important topic of conversation in Brussels, issues like immigration are.

The thing with all the countries that apparently rely on the UK is there are a lot of them and that trade is widely spread out.
While 45% of UK trade is with the EU, the UK only accounts for 6.5% of Germany's trade, any change in that won't be as noticeable.

As the Boris's and Jacob's keep saying the rich won't notice the effect (especially if their foreign citizenship applications are approved) and that will be true for the rich foreigners as well - but they also have places like Spa, Nurburging & Monza to play in anyway.
Those who've failed to appreciate the EU logos on the infrastructure in their areas might notice it rather more.

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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Abraham Lincoln, 1864

As I noted earlier in this thread, part of the problem will be that there are NO Customs Officers at any of the ports or airports in the UK - they are all now Border Force Officers with designated Customs powers. As a result the majority of the focus of their work has been immigration and very few remaining have a Customs background - all the Customs processing of import/export entries is done centrally in Salford and it will be up to the Border Force Officer at the port to inform Salford that goods have been inspected or "live" documents such as Carnets or licences have been processed at the port (assuming any new recruits are trained how to deal with them!) before clearance of the entry. Then there's the new entry processing system (CDS) which is due to go live as a solo system in March as well...

Just to clear up a couple of other points - TIR carnets were for a one way movement and mostly seemed to be used for movements to/from Eastern Europe (mainly Hungary at Felixstowe) or Turkey and were a pain in the backside.
CPD carnnets are for personal use of vehicles - even if you drive your historic racecar to the circuit before racing it there, the race counts as professional use so invalidates the carnet.

My guess, should the worst happen, is half people will go for for option A, as they only have club race cars anyway, 35% for option B . . . . . I know a few people who have sold and are planning on doing so. . . . . and those left over who can afford it will probably keep cars overseas to avoid all the hassle and expense. If you have a house in France, why would you bother bringing a car here if 5 of 8 race meetings, and arguably the best ones, are on the continent.

[QUOTE=midgetman;3850953
The temptation will be to say "Phuket, let's just race in the UK" which will actually be good for the local economy. Let's hope so, rather than "ah can't be @r5ed, more hassle on top of HANS, lifed seats, 8856-2018 racesuits etc etc. Time to hang up my helmet."

The writer was obviously under instructions to include the phrase "In the unlikely event..." on every page

If you have more time than me on a wet winter morning you might like to try and find where the ECMT permit exemptions are listed in the sundry linked documents. As far as I can see the only possible exemptions for us are if you carry your own goods ie not for hire and reward and operate on a restricted O licence, or if you are carrying non-commercial 'properties' to a sports event. Whether cars and tools count as props I couldn't say but if certain events, as is often claimed, are 'theatre' then maybe they do!

A couple of things jump out though, especially if you are running on a Standard International and not Restricted O licence. Permits will be in very short supply. There seems to be no increase in the quantity available - only 984 annual - which will fall far short of what's needed given that you will be scrabbling for an allocation with every haulage company in the country, and your application for annual permits has to be in by 21st December, so not much time.

Another issue for many will be that annual permits are only available for euro6 vehicles, monthly permits can be used with both euro5 & 6 but whilst there are 2592 monthly permits for euro6 there are only 240 for euro5.

I sincerely hope that it doesn't come to this or how to transport our racing cars will suddenly become less important to all of us than why supermarket shelves are empty because European hauliers will have to jump through the same hoops if they want to come to the UK

Well, ‘in the unlikely event’ , for anyone taking cars to a race meeting in Europe without an ‘O’ licence the possibility of getting an ECMT permit doesn’t exist. So it will be down to the grey area (that seems similar to the French exemption for Sunday and National holiday travel) regarding carrying non-commercial properties to and from sporting events.

If ‘in the unlikely event’, that doesn’t satisfy the authorities, then it’s bye-bye European racing....

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Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)

"In the unlikely event" the market will open up again for printers to produce hooky permits as back in the 1970s, finding the correct watermarked paper again may be easier now though as forgery seems to have come a long way since then.

"In the unlikely event" the market will open up again for printers to produce hooky permits as back in the 1970s, finding the correct watermarked paper again may be easier now though as forgery seems to have come a long way since then.

I’m sure there are many having ‘lightbulb moments’ regarding possible business opportunities......

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Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)

Yes I've given it some thought, and conclude that things will revert to how they were before we were conned into joining (and yes, I am old enough to remember). Just a bit of extra admin and forms to fill in, and off we go. Of course, the anti-Brexiteers will tend to make a mountain out of a molehill, but I'm more optimistic. A lot.

Could not agree more, and leave it at that, enough politic with the F.I.A poking it's nose into historic racing as it is, I seem to remember haulking about the mainland of Europe without much bother, except Spain now and again, but that still applies at Gibraltar occasionally, the problems all adding to the fun, and crossing borders were nowt like getting into the 'Ring' without a correct pass

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I'm supposed to respect my elders, but it's getting harder and harder for me to find one now.