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Faeton writes "It's the kind of story you hear from a friend of a friend -- how, after a long night in a rural hostelry and at a loss for entertainment in the countryside, they head out into a nearby field.
There, according to the second-hand accounts, they sneak up on an unsuspecting cow and turn the poor animal hoof over udder.
But now, much to the relief of dairy herds, the sport of cow-tipping has been debunked as an urban, or perhaps rural, myth by scientists at a Canadian university.
"

Ms Boechler, now a trainee forensics analyst for the Royal Canadian Mounted Corps, concluded in her initial report that a cow standing with its legs straight would require five people to exert the required force to bowl it over.

Five normal people, perhaps...or perhaps just one college football jock, hopped up on steriods and Jagermeister...

(Before the naysayers start yammering about the misconceptions of steroid use, let me relate a personal experience of mine. Back in my college days, I watched my football jock roommate (an avowed Nandralone user) put his shoulder through the dorm room wall (concrete block), during a Jager bender. I doubt a mere cow would have had much of a chance against this guy.)

A concrete block wall, (especially if it's not a filled and rebar-reinforced load-bearing wall:), is actually surprisingly weak. Concrete can be incredibly strong when subjected solely to compression forces, but has minimal tensile strength. Consider also that not only does your college roommate have a fair amount of weight, but he is likely delivering it near the center (floor to ceiling) and so has maximum leverage to his advantage as well. I can't say I've ever attempted that particular feat myself but I've done enough other "interesting" things to concrete with my bare hands that I'm not too surprised to hear a drunk jock managed to break a wall...

The guys who researched this article are idiots. Anybody can tell you that it only takes two people to tip a cow: one guys sneaks up and kneels behind it before the other guy runs up and pushes it over.

You city people are funny. Cows don't sleep on their feet. Heck, they hardly ever even sleep when laying down, just get dopey, and trust me, you are not going to move a cow that's laying down.

As for your "mere cow" theory, if you ever tried to move one you would find that they're a lot tougher than you think. First of all, they weigh 1000 pounds or more. I've seen Holstein bulls as big as 4000 pounds. That weight includes a lot of muscle. They're not as tough per weight as pigs, the most difficult animal I've ever had to wrestle into a loading chute, but a cow does not go anywhere it doesn't feel at least a minor incentive to go (hence cattle prods...). Your beefy jock friend may have been 250 pounds or so, but he's facing an animal 4 times his size or more with a lower center of gravity. I admit if a couple of tough guys snuck up on a dumb cow chewing it's cud, they could probably knock it over, but most cows don't even let people touch them.

Anybody who did ever tip a cow over is a jerk. If a cow ends up on the wrong side, it's stomach ends up on it's lungs and they suffocate. They often can't get their legs underneath themselves to get up.

Is the center of mass really at exactly half the cow's height? Looking at the image in the article, most of the mass is distributed above the COM. The assumption of people only being able to push their own bodyweight is unexplained as well.

It gets worse. Notice how the diagram assumes that the fulcrum of the cow is the opposite leg? This assumes a 100% rigid body cow. How rigid is a cow if it isn't expecting to be knocked over? If the cow's legs provided full vertical support but no angular rigity, a slight breeze would blow that parallelogram over.

In essence, they've shown the theoretical maximum force required to tip a cow.

And, of course, she doesn't try to tip any cows herself. It seems a bit irresponsible to prove that it can't be done mathematically, without checking your work yourself.

Not necessarily relevant to the findings of the article, but notice in the diagram where the center of mass is located?

<Quote>But I suspect that even if a dynamic physics model suggests cow tipping is possible, the biology ultimately gets in the way: a cow is simply not a rigid, unresponding body.</Quote>

They seem to be arguing that a non-rigid cow would make it more difficult rather than less, implying that the Doctor of Zoology, ahem, and her student didn't understand the leg swaying issue when applying their knowledge of physics.

To tip a living being is EASIER than tipping a statue. Living things are easily surprised and taken off-balance.My personal experience with ruminants is: I ran over a horse once and I ran over a cow, too.The horse: I was at 110km/h (70mph) in a 1979 GM Chevette whose brake system, unknowingly to me up till that time, was defective. I saw the horse going to the middle of the road at 150m distance, hit the brakes, and nothing! I swung the car to the left (so I could avoid hitting the horse on me), and the hor

in a 1979 GM Chevette whose brake system, unknowingly to me up till that time, was defective.

All Chevettes had Fred Flintsone brakes. You had to push the brake pedal so hard, you might as well drag your foot on the ground to stop. Also, a roommate of mine found out the hard way that a pony keg will not fit in the hatchback without reclining the back seat. It looks like the hatch will close, until the lock latches and the window cracks.

If they start to step by raising a leg on the far side, it will make them easier to tip.

If they raise a leg on the near side and try to step away, it will make them easier to tip.

Their best (and typical) response is to raise a near leg and move it towards the tipper, broadening their base and lowering their center of gravity. That, and only that, would makle them harder to tip. But that does not mean I agree with the articles conclusions.

Is the center of mass really at exactly half the cow's height? Looking at the image in the article, most of the mass is distributed above the COM.
You're right, but a more realistic COM would actually increase the force required.

The assumption of people only being able to push their own bodyweight is unexplained as well.
It doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I can lift someone of my own weight if they're not resisting, but it's not easy. The angle looks pretty awkward too -- you're pushing sideways and up

Hmm...I was wrong. Actually their unrealistic placement of the c.m. results in an answer that's too big, because it makes their angle theta be much too small (66 degrees, when it should be more like 76 degrees). For anyone who's really interested, I've incorporated a full analysis in my online physics textbook [lightandmatter.com] (section 5.4).

Same here. I grew up in just about the smallest town you can imagine & have personally seen it happen.

Mine's actually quite a funny story. It was county fair time & some of the guys thought they'd be funny & tip the cows in the pen at the rodeo arena. 15-20 cows, one small pen, 2 drunk high school guys, and a crowd full of peer pressure. They did get a cow knocked over, but one guy barely made it out & the other came out with a broken foot & cracked rib. For some reason a little alcohol prevents one from realizing that cows may try to stampede when one of their brethern is attacked.

i once won a burrito at chipolte for correctly guessing the population of a town - 2. since you mention high school guys i would have to guess around 5000 for your town...:P. i grew up in a small town too. some guys on the football team claimed to have gone out and down it. i think they should have tried tipping the bison...

I've been party to it once in Texas. Saw it happen another time in Texas. Saw it happen in Missouri.

Granted, the time when I was involved, there was a large amount of tequilla, and little square pieces of paper that had been soaked in unspeakable chemicals. Nevertheless, the two other times I saw it, I was otherwise unimpaired.

First off, cows sleep laying down. I lived on a dairy for 15 years and had to wake them up.I was born and raised on a dairy farm and had my own small herd by the time I was in high school. Of course cows sleep laying down, but if you had to wake them up you were getting up too early!;-)

So, if the cow is standing, it is awake.Good call.

Next, a good sized dairy cow weighs in at over 1000 lbs.Actually that would be quite a small cow like a Jersey or a Guernsey. A typical Holstein would be more in the 1500 pound range.

Standing, feet average width apart -- you, scrawny programmer boy (or me, an almost athetic 200 lbs) aint just gonna nock the thing over. Head start or no.Of course not. The whole idea of dispelling the myth scientifically is one of the more ridiculous things I've ever heard of. It's a total joke and always has been.

Now just to confuse all you city slickers, there is a technique called "throwing" which is commonly used on farms and which is used in the rodeo event of bulldogging. Essentially the idea is to twist the head at the same time as you throw the animal off balance with your hip. I've personally thrown calves up to about 900 pounds, but in my experience it takes two men with a rope to throw a full-sized cow.

I suppose you're going to try and tell me that the reason I never found any snipes in all my Boy Scout snipe-hunts was because they don't exist?

And what about the famous "Left Handed smoke shifter" we always forgot to bring to our camp outings?

Actually, there was one trip where we seen some green newbies down to the Rangers office to get one. An hour later he came back with one, freaked everyone out. But these Rangers went along with it in perfect form. They didn't have one at the time, they were all l

Our scout troop had to quit snipe hunting, after a cub scout broght back a possom he and another scout had beat to death with a stick. He wanted to know if it was a snipe, we laughed our asses off, then recieved the asschewing of a life time from our scout master.

If you have really lived on a dairy for 15 years I would have a hard time believing you did not know this.

And knocking over a 1000 pound mass that is resting on a relativly narrow base with a high center of mass is actually pretty simple for someone who is 200 lbs, if they get a small dashing start for the first frew feet (which you need anyway to be fast enough to get the cow before it awakes).

Geography is also an important factor to consider. For example: If the animal in question to be tipped is located in Kansas, the calculation must also include the force exerted by an Intelligent Tipper.

A large dairy animal approached Zaphod Beeblebrox's table, a large fat meaty quadruped of the bovine type with large watery eyes, small horns and what might almost have been an ingratiating smile on its lips.'Good evening', it lowed and sat back heavily on its haunches, 'I am the main Dish of the Day. May I interest you in the parts of my body?'

It harrumphed and gurgled a bit, wriggled its hind quarters in to a more comfortable position and gazed peacefully at them.

This story is total BS! A friend of my cousin's friends sister TOTALLY did this last summer after they got hammered at this party and it was AWESOME the cow was like "WTF?!" and they were all like "HAHA!" and then they ran off 'cause the farmer was coming! Seriously you can ask anybody!

so we're supposed to just accept this as conclusive even though they didn't test their "findings", aren't physicists or mathematicians, make all kinds of assumptions, and no one else has reproduced their experiment (even thoough you can't since they didn't actually do an experiment which means they don't have real findings)? I'll believe it when the mythbusters come out with an episode about it.

Wait wait, you're lumping the Mythbusters in the same category as physicists and mathematicians???Mythbusters is eye candy and nothing more. The "experiments" are just excuses to make things blow up or crash into a wall. Every time I see them proclaim a myth "BUSTED" despite crappy experimental design and lack of creativity/insight I recoil in the horror of a thousand projectile vomiting infants.

You don't do it with a single person- the physics caclulations are correct to a point, even if they're doing it with some pretty silly assumptions about weights. 2-6 people are neccessary to tip a cow; 1-2 people are neccessary to throw one (because twisting the head puts the cow off balance and shifts the weight), and 3 people with a block and tackle can put one in the air.....

We would convince a unsuspecting victim that we were going cow tipping - drive to a field far from town and send in unsuspecting victim to dodge the land mines that cows leave to protect themselves and then drive away leaving the victim walk miles back to town in the dark with their cow dung covered shoes.

I wonder if we could get Jack Malvern to go for a ride so that we could 'disprove' is article? buhuhhahahahahaa

...idiots. People who think that armed with some basic knowledge of statics think they can actually figure out what happens when you do complex things to complex objects. Cows can stand in a variety of poses allowing their center of mass to be in a variety of position with respect to their hooves and their legs will tend to buckle if pressure is applied suddenly from one side. I can see an armchair physicist maybe getting an estimate to within a factor of 2 or 3 of what force is required to tip a cow using the naive methods described, but not much better. I wonder if these are the same people who told us bees can't fly.

You probably know the old joke with the line "First, we approximate the Cow as a sphere of radius r...". There are two parts to being a physicist - knowing the theory and knowing how to apply it. There are times when it's fine to make an approximation like that nd there are times when it's not. But if you know the theory and can't figure out how to apply it then you're as good as useless when it comes to solving real world problems.

I must admit I'm unsure as to the aftereffects of a cow tipping, but would not some form of padding reduce the cruelty?

Granted, I do know that the only natural position cows lay down in is on their bellies, not their sides... Not sure how a cow would get back up after a tipping. Of course if it were mythbusters, they could rig a crane to help the cow up. Combined with the padding the cow might end up nothing more than annoyed.

Cow tipping is possible. How do I know? Do I know some guy that saw some guy do it? Nope. I've done it.
The article focuses on simply applying the force to the top of the cow. That doesn't work. Everybody in my county knows that.
For those interested (I'm not really sure why you would be, but then again I probably don't want to know...), you have to push/pull the cow's legs while pushing on the top. A popular "trick" around here is to tie the cow's hooves together (a sort of looseish hog-tie) before tip

Um, I have cow tipped, with my friends on my high school football team. I do not recall ever tipping over a cow, because we were too busy getting chased and pinned against the fences. Perhaps watching a 5'7 250 pound lineman get lifted by the crotch by a pissed heifer can be considered Cow Tipping? It was all fun and games until the skinny guy pissed on the electric fence.
It isn't about tipping the cows over, it is about the comraderie and the lifelong experiences..and the risk of possible incapacitating lifelong spinal injuries...those are the things that make cow tipping an experience that no bible thumper should be without.

This is crap. I *personally* have witnessed a cow tipping. It is not that difficult. When the cow is asleep, it is not consciously adjusting for it's balence, if you run at it and give it a hard shove, it falls over pretty easily. I have seen it myself.

Rather overaccurate numbers for the number of people you'd need (4.43), the calculations state things with a level of accuracy that indicates the calculator is the usual seminumerate soft scientist. I bet they quote the level of sodium they get in "half an average grapefruit" to three significant figures too.However, the model assumes the cow is static, whilst later giving the lie to this. A single person can tip a cow (I've done it, I'm 5'7" and weigh little and had about a 50% hit rate - hey, there was li

1) Cows are tippable2) The model is inadequate3) Weak oversight of the model and lack of experimental data made for wrong publication4) There's a lot of seasoned rednecks on Slashdot5) Nobody cares about the cows, you insensitive clods!

Beware of any scientist who determines if a cow can be tipped by developing complex models, rather than going out and trying to tip a cow.

That being said, this article is par for the course in contemporary "journalism." Very poorly written. There is no telling where the inaccuracy of the "journalist" stops and the absurdity of the claims made by the "scientist" begin. At the very least, the article itself concedes that two people may be able to tip a cow, but says the whole thing is a myth in the title. Which brings me to my second fair warning... beware of journalists who contradict themselves several times in the same article (or these days, just beware of journalists, I suppose.) Another way to say it is this: believe none of what you hear, half of what you read, and only about 90% of what you see.

Theory should always, where possible, be tested by experiment. Judging by my personal observations (I grew up in the country) there's a flaw in her calculations somehwere. My guess is that she has the centre of mass way too low.