Chaos At The AZ GOP Convention

When I was elected as a county delegate to attend the Arizona GOP Convention I expected things to be somewhat chaotic and intense. What I didn’t realize was just how disorganized and unprofessional the convention would be. Countless parliamentary errors, miscounted votes and a complete disregard for ballot security.

Ron Paul supporters were clearly loathed and not welcome to the event which was held at the Grand Canyon University Arena. Speaker after speaker told the crowd that we had to unite behind Mitt Romney. We were told that no Ron Paul signs were allowed inside the convention and yet a large Romney banner hung above the convention floor.

Contrary to the fast spreading media lie, Mitt Romney’s son was NEVER booed off the stage. I woke up this morning and saw that headline plastered all over the news. Every honest person at the convention will tell you that Josh Romney concluded his speech and only walked off the stage after he was finished speaking. Yes, there were some boos when he told the crowd to unite behind his father’s delegate slate but nothing overly disruptive.

The first major mishap of the morning was when the AZ GOP read the credentialing report. They reported that Coconino County only had 12 delegates show up. We had 19 and an over vote would have thrown our County results out completely. That would have been a disaster since 11 of our 19 delegates were Ron Paul delegates. Our County Chair stood up and yelled the correct number and the GOP took her word for it without ever questioning or knowing who she was. She could have said 30 and she could have said 3 and they would have believed her.

Throughout the convention the GOP chair Tom Morrissey kept trying to change the order of business. At one point we were told to break off into our respective congressional districts located throughout the arena and even outside. Then we were all called back to the main delegate floor because procedural rules had been broken.

When we were finally able to break into our congressional districts to vote we found Romney supporters breaking the rules by placing copies of the Romney slate on every chair. I overheard one of the girls who was placing the slate on the chairs say that if anybody asked tell them that people left the slate there when they were called back to the main floor.

Once voting started we were not allowed to leave our congressional district. The Flagstaff group was in CD-1 which comprised of around 150 delegates. We had to vote for an A and B delegate (two separate ballots). On the first ballot the Ron Paul delegate was Jill Skayfel. The vote was taken and about 30 minutes later the results came back.

It was reported that Jill had only received 15 votes. We knew for a fact that she had received at least 11 votes from Coconino County alone! The place went crazy and someone called for a show of hands. My wife Cindy was chosen to count the hands and as soon as the hands went up you could hear Romney delegates gasp. Hands were raised everywhere. A total of 51 people had voted for Jill Skayfel.

The room erupted and GOP representatives were called. My wife Cindy was chosen to accompany our county vice chair Drake Mitchell to talk to GOP representatives and staff. The GOP wanted to run the ballots through the machine again and if the results matched, call it good. That would have resulted in some kind of riot. Cindy and Drake fought hard for an honest recount and eventually representatives from the Paul and Romney campaigns observed the recount and reported the correct results.

Second place went to Coconino County chair Diana Arendt who received 48 votes. She was part of Romney’s slate. Ron Paul delegate Jill Skayfel had won by 3 with 51 votes.

When all was said and done, the two CD-1 votes took around 4 hours to complete. On the second ballot, Ron Paul delegate John Lesko won. I can’t speak for the rest of the congressional districts (I hear Ron Paul won CD-5 too) but CD-1 came through for Ron Paul and I am so proud of our people for standing up and demanding an honest and accurate vote count.

After the CD votes we returned to the main floor to vote on at large delegates and National Committeeman and National Committeewoman. By this time, Romney delegates were leaving in droves.

When voting started we noticed that several LD chairs were picking up ballots for people in their LD who had already left. Ballot box security was minimal and nobody questioned or double checked the LD and County chairs when they picked up ballots for their people. We observed several people walking to the ballot box with handfuls of ballots. Security and staff refused to do anything about it.

By this time we had lost the quorum and a needed runoff vote for National Committeewoman was never taken. We also never received the results of the at large delegates and alternates we voted on. Even if we did receive the results, I don’t think anybody has ANY faith in the voting machines and the tabulation process. The chair adjourned the meeting and results will be released when nobody is around to contest the vote.

Travis Estes, a Flagstaff Ron Paul supporter reported the following throughout the day:

Good article. I was there ad was a delegate for Mohave County. We didn’t get out of there until about 9pm. or so after the Chairman slammed the gavel and walked off the stage. We were most all so exhausted we could not think straight after about 10 hours, with no announced lunch. It was like sleep and food deprivation combined with confusion and poor communication. They just kept telling us all, stay here, you can’t leave, go here, go there. Security made us remove all Ron Paul signs and there were also no Romney signs except the one hanging on their both they allegedly rented. Gross incompetence combined with deliberate shenanigans was obvious. More to come on this story. Most Mitt Romney and Ron Paul supporters were nice to each other and overall I am glad I witnessed and participated, however some Paul and Romney supporters and delegates did have some heated exchanges of words. I was wearing a Ron Paul sticker on my shirt. Peace!

Thank you for all your efforts!!!! Awesome show!…If Romney was so far in the lead…his campaign wouldn’t act like that…also he’d have droves of people compared to Ron Paul…but his numbers were rigged and there’s no REAL people to back up those fictional numbers…

Elisha, I want to leave just one comment: The booing of Romney’s son was extremely disruptive, very disrespectful and totally uncalled for. The booing happened on a number of occasions, not just when Mitt’s son mentioned his father as being the “next President of the United States”. I was embarrassed and ashamed of people I had felt positive about before that happened. Not one person booed when Sidney Hay made her speech in favor of Ron Paul. Romney’ did win the AZ primary by 47% or more of the vote, while Ron Paul received 8% of the vote. It is normal for the AZGOP to support the winner of the AZ primary. I thought that Ron Paul supporters, while supportive of Paul and enthusiastic, were respectful. Yesterday made be start to wonder. Many were reacting like I would expect Democrats to react. I was personally disappointed. I agree that Romney’s son was not booed off the stage, but he was rudely interrupted numerous times. It was unnecessary and unprofessional.

Dang, I was expecting to see blood. Still, they made our little differences seem tame by comparison.

The comments that follow that clip are examples of what I wrote about below. Quite obviously some of those Oklahoma Paul voters don’t consider themselves to be Republicans. But their leader, Ron Paul, does. What are they, or I, missing?

I agree – I was very disappointed by the booing. I was there to support Ron Paul, and I voted for the RP delegates (2 out of elected 3 from CD-5!!!). I really could have done without the disruptive boos though.

John, Romney’s son did not break any rules. Simply put, many Ron Paul supporters were simply rude. The vote problem in CD-1 was handled properly. The problem was not intentional. It was the result of poor planning and insufficient volunteers. I cannot speak to whether there was a problem with the machines, but that seems to be an issue regardless of the party. I do not like using machines! Romney’s son did not have anything to do with the vote counting. That was the responsibility of the AZGOP and staff. I agree that things were not well organized, but I did not respond to that. I responded specifically to the lack of decorum of many (not all) of the Paul supporters. I was there. I know what I saw and heard.

Josh Romney broke Arizona State convention rules by telling convention goers to vote for a specific slate while he was on stage.

joyiris

May 13, 2012 at 5:56 pm

John, I believe that based on the Arizona constitution all Arizona delegates are bound to vote for Romney on the first ballot at the National Convention because Romney won the AZ primary. I’m pretty sure that is true. I checked it out with a number of senior Republicans. Also, didn’t Sidney call for people to support Ron Paul??

Slim

May 13, 2012 at 6:25 pm

Way to entirely skip your original claim, there, Joy.
Do not confuse yourself that the issues are the same issue.
As to the first, Yes, he broke a rule. Not only the special convention rules, but general procedure rule, as well.
As to the second–If you are correct, then there would have no motivation for the party to tweak the rules, violate procedure, and leave unfinished business before unlawful adjournment….Now, would there?

I just want to set you, and everyone else peddling this ‘delegates must vote for Romney’ media disinformation right now.

The lawyer for the Republican GOP recently said in an interview that no delegates are bound to vote ANYTHING BUT THEIR CONSCIENCE ON ANY VOTE at the Tampa GOP.

There. I hope I made that clear. Go look it up for yourself, straight from the Rhino’s mouth. Now, they may try to change the rules, but as they are now, no delegate can be compelled to vote anything but their conscience no matter who won what state.

Research and confirm this for yourself, but for heaven’s sake stop repeating the same drivel the media spouts off daily to convince people that Mitt Romney is the only choice.

A. The selection of delegates to the political party national conventions shall be as provided in the bylaws of each state party.

B. Each delegate to the national convention shall use his best efforts at the convention for the party’s presidential nominee candidate who received the greatest number of votes in the presidential preference election until the candidate is nominated for the office of president of the United States by the convention, until the candidate releases the delegate from his obligation, until a candidate withdraws from the race or until one convention nominating ballot has been taken. After a candidate is nominated, withdraws from the race, delegates are released or one ballot is taken, each delegate is free to vote as he chooses, and no rule may be adopted by a delegation requiring the delegation to vote as a body or causing the vote of any delegate to go uncounted or unreported.

The GOP must be very nervous about Ron Paul these days as they keep threatening states if they allow Ron Paul supporters in this process. They are shoving Romney down our throats, but I believe that the GOP have thrown Ron Paul under the bus at their own demise. People are sick of politics as usual and know that Ron Paul is our last hope to save our country from socialism. Eighty eight percent of our military support Ron Paul as well as many young people who understand our country is in trouble due to the arrogance of both the Democrat and Republican parties. They are not working for the people! If Ron Paul does not win the primary, better prepare your bug out bags.

4/6 positions secured by Ron Paul delegates in CD5. There were problems too at credentialing.I heard that 16 people did not get credentialed even though they were confirmed local delegates elected from their counties or legislative districts.The candidate that we had picked for National committeeman was also stripped of his delegate voting position.
So many problems and irregularities, they wonder why we get upset.

I agree that Romneys son was treated a little rough, but I think it shows that Romney supporters should be worried. Even though Romney won the primary we know Ron Paul can still get the delegates. Ron Paul doesn’t need to pay his supporters or rent a sign he has peacefull passionate support. It’s funny people are talking about Romneys son not the bullying of Romneys supporters to the Paul supporters during the convention. Peace roll on Ron

Elisha,
I did not see any Romney supporters bullying Paul supporters in Phoenix. I did, however, hear some pretty nasty comments made by Donna about Romney. She was sitting right next to me. She yelled so loud I had to cover my right hear until she stopped. I did not see any bullying. Granted, I was just in CD-1 caucus and the main floor, but I saw some pretty nice cooperation between Romney and Paul supporters.

Well Joy, we’re all individuals so judge us individually. I heard shouting but could not tell where it was coming from or what people were saying. I have nasty things to say about Romney too but I tend to write it rather than scream it. 😉

If Romney gets the nomination I will be writing a nice long blog explaining exactly why I will not be voting for him.

I will also add that some Romney supporters said some very nasty things about Ron Paul to me thinking I was a Romney supporter and would understand. One guy even said Ron Paul was a nazi leader leading his nazi followers.

Elisha, the comment you mentioned from a Romney supporter was certainly out of line and obviously untrue. I think all of us can give one on one examples. I have heard negative things too, on this and other issues, but at least when they are one on one, we can all respond (hopefully politely). When a large group boos all at once when someone (anyone) is trying to speak, I find that impolite. It did not accomplish anything positive. I am sure we can all find examples on both sides of any issue or person that is less than flattering. It disappointed me when people were disrespectful to Romney’s son. It was not necessary. What they could have done to show their lack of support was simply to not applaud. Many Romney supporters (and simply Republicans who accept the outcome of the primary and acknowledge that AZ did vote for Romney in our primary) like a lot of things about Ron Paul.
When such a large group of Paul supporters act rudely to a speaker, especially a family member of Arizona’s primary winner, it reflects poorly on the Paul supporters and in turn casts a negative shadow on Ron Paul. Don’t forget, we were all supposed to be Republicans in that room yesterday. I just think it was unfortunate. One other thought: I agree that the convention was very disorganized. That was also a disappointment. It was my first such convention. However, I do not think it was intentional that we had the vote count problem we did in CD-1. I think it was accidental. I say this because when we had our last State Committeeman meeting in Phoenix with hundreds of State Committeemen and PCs, when we were all getting our credentials, there was NOTHING for Diana Arendt!!! As you know, Diana is the Coconino County Republican Chairperson. She did not have a badge or any credentials. Obviously that was not intentional either, but it happened. It was sloppy, poor planning and unprofessional, but it was not intentional.

Booing is common at conventions. Conventions are supposed to be lively. They have always been this way going way way back. The Republican party is at a critical point right now and the establishment is weak and fading and the Constitutionalists are moving in. Many Ron Paul supporters are young and just learning the process. Give them a few years and they will be seasoned veterans. The Republican party will be a party of liberty soon and hopefully in 4 years we can all get behind a candidate who supports liberty rather than big government and the status quo.

I found this attack on Goldwater at the 1964 National Convention and the booing by Goldwater supporters. Politics is war. Booing is perfectly normal and acceptable during the nominating process both at the state and national level.

joyiris

May 13, 2012 at 5:53 pm

Can’t help but wonder what our Country might have been like had Goldwater been elected instead of Johnson!? I so loved Barry Goldwater.

Slim

May 13, 2012 at 11:37 pm

Joy, the protest was after his speech. It was On-Point of Order and Pocedure (mostly). Tell me, which is worse: Some venting from the floor, or, repeated flagrant rule violation?

Re: “I so loved Barry Goldwater.”, then, if you had listened to him, you ought be loving Ron Paul. There are few differences, and accounting for the differences in world powers, they are negligible. — More to the Point:
The Republican Party Holds Goldwater and Reagan as Icons.
The Republican Party Hated Goldwater, as did the Media. The Republican Party Hated Reagan, as did the Media.
The Republican Party Hates Ron Paul, as does the Media.
—-You may not know that, after the Marine Barack Bombing, Reagan prepared, on council of his advisers, to increase our military presence around the world, to make sure that we did not appear weak, and to be better positioned to avenge our loss… But something about that troubled him.
–According to his own words, he began recalling some of the principles he learned from Goldwater. After about 2 weeks, he called off the escalation. When challenged by his cabinet, he explained that the reason that we were attacked is because we are an easy target when we are in foreign lands, and because it gives them a reason to hate us.
–No Bull. Strait Dope. Search for yourself.

Ronnie

May 14, 2012 at 3:28 pm

Joy, I was at the GOP convention in 2011 Phoenix and it was not organized at all. Diana Arendt did not have her badge or credentials then either.

And I’ll add one more thing, it wasn’t long ago when Santorum, Gingrich, Bachmann, Cain and their supporters were also saying nasty things about Romney.

Romney is certainly not deserving of any praise. Keep in mind, we’re talking about the guy who came up with the Obamacare model and supports the NDAA and the Patriot Act and the trampling of our 4th and 5th amendment rights. The passion for freedom strikes a chord and it’s easy to get emotional when we are being told that we HAVE to get behind someone who hates liberty.

The CD that voted in the theater (CD6?) was given incorrect instructions on how to vote. They were told to only vote for one person on the first ballot. The highest vote-getter would be the A delegate, and the next two would be the B delegate. That was not what we were told in our CD1. We were told we could vote for up to 3 people, that the highest would be the A delegate, and the next two would be the A alternates.

Oh, and one more comment: The Romneys are not the Royal Family. Respect is something that is always mutual. It is not a blind obedience to someone who has been identified as an authority figure, or the family of the authority figure.

Joy: “Respect”. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Great post, thanks for writing all this out. I met you guys right before the first at large vote around 4pm maybe? I was sitting at the end of your row to your right. I am very appreciative of your information and I can confirm what you heard about CD6, we voted in the theater, and we were told to vote for one on the first ballot. We then voted for 3 on the second ballot. As for which was A and B and which was the alternate…no one in our room was ever clear on who was elected to what position. I mean no one, from the head guys on down, no one seemed to know anything.

I learned a lot yesterday, first it confirmed what I have read about and believed for years: there really are powerful people in places of authority that are willing to cheat to achieve their goals. I’m not surprised I just have never seen it up close and in person before. Second, disorder, confusion and chaos, as displayed by yesterday’s meeting, are an excellent cloak to hide the cheating and a clever skapegoat to cover the tracks of anything nefarious. This is another reason to demand good leadership in any group. It helps keep things on the up and up.

Disgraceful! I may be the minority here, as I’ve not been a Ron Paul supporter, nor a Mitt Romney supporter. I was for Herman Cain, but he was targeted and muscled out early on as the only real threat to Obama and his Race Card Campaign.

That said, what I saw here, as well as what I saw in the Oklahoma video, confirms what I’ve thought about Romney all along: He’s just another slimeball politician. (The hair is a dead giveaway!) I’ve also been convinced that he’s been the the chosen one all along and our votes would actually have no bearing in the election process. I’m now even more convinced after watching these videos. The GOP Convention leaders are giving phony in Romney’s favor, and when they are caught, they just shut down the lights, mics and, when that doesn’t shut people up, they adjourn the convention itself. They will call the votes the way they see fit – regardless of the actual results.

Our country’s election process is no different from other countries living under dictatorships. As sickeningly corrupt as the DNC/Obama campaign was in 2008, the RNC/Romney campaign is just as bad. I’ve become so disillusioned with the political process because all Americans are being DUPED! The heads of our respective parties (Dems/Repubs) choose who they want – the Constitution and the People be damned – and it’s now coming clearly into light what they’ve probably been doing for decades. It’s no secret that Hilary Clinton won against Obama, but was cheated and threatened into bowing out. Now, I see that the same thing is happening to Ron Paul, but even more brazenly and blatantly than in 2008. The thought of voting for Romney now makes me even sicker because I have actual confirmation of what I’ve just suspected in the past.

If one positive thing came out of this for me, it’s that I am no longer undecided about who to vote for: I now know that Ron Paul will get MY vote. He is an honest man with REAL INTEGRITY and unlike Obama and Romney, it’s clear that he has no hidden agenda to bring American down.

I read your post and wanted to try and clarify something. Romney won the Arizona primary with 47% of the vote. Arizona is “winner take all delegate” State. So, Romney is Arizona’s pick to the National Convention. What we were voting on Saturday was delegates to the National Convention. We were not voting on who would be Arizona’s Presidential preference. That was already done by the voters in our Primary. Ron Paul only received 8% of the vote in Arizona. Thus far Romney has not won any State primaries at all. Winning State primaries is how a candidate accumulates delegates to use for the National Convention. Excuse me if you already knew this, but from your post, I got the impression that you thought we were voting on Arizona’s Presidential preference on Saturday.

There is still a good chance that this will be a brokered convention and delegates will be unbound after the first vote.

Also, many other states do not have bound delegates.

Slim

May 14, 2012 at 12:27 am

You know, I’m tired of the secrecy games and other bull.
Let’s move everyone into the light.
Head-On:
RNC Rules 15 (b)(1), 15(c)(5).
Read. Weep.
Then, think about the fact the your county and state party leaders, and the media heads, are smarter than I. That they are WAY more familiar with the rules, and have attorneys to explain things, and that they all lie for the sake of propaganda… And that you trust them enough to take their word, rather than simply look it up, yourself.
Then weep some more.
Then, fix it.http://www.gop.com/images/legal/2008_RULES_Adopted.pdf

Virginia Guest

May 14, 2012 at 11:08 am

Joy:

I have no faith in the results that were reported for the Arizona Presidential Preference election. We saw at the convention that the GOP is falsifying results. Why would anyone assume that they acted differently for the APP?

The APP already had red flags, such as the fact that the state did not advertise that election on its webpage, but it did advertise the scheduled election for the Arizona primary. I’d be willing to bet that most Arizona residents were under the impression that the Republican nominee would be chosen during the publicized primary, NOT during the hidden “preference election”. I have never even heard of something called a preference election.

I agree with most of the information in your column. Not a bad description at all. In fact, very good. However there are a couple of things that I saw differently in tone and degree, if not in direction.

I wouldn’t say that “Ron Paul supporters were clearly loathed.” That’s somewhat overstated. IFAIK, MOST of us delegates were of a mind to say “we’re all in this together.” The fellow walking around outside (and perhaps inside, I don’t know) shouting that “Only Ron Paul can win” was unique–that is, there weren’t any others on either side. I personally found that to be a bit grating, but not intolerable. I guess I was surprised that there weren’t more like him, though.

The Paul contingents have done a good job of exercising their rights. More power to them. The fact still remains that they don’t constitute a majority of anything, so they might be a little bit less sensitive about having their feelings hurt. Just because you THINK you have a monopoly on the conservative way doesn’t mean that you actually have it.

The fact is, you lost the primary election, and it appears to some people that you’re trying to get by fiat what you didn’t earn at the ballot box. I don’t think that’s the case for most of you. There isn’t a thing wrong with flexing the muscles you have to get concessions during the national convention. I think it’s exactly what you should do. But it’s asinine to spend the day, as SOME did, having tantrums about who you will vote for if Ron Paul loses the nomination.

The calls for unity were calls to get behind the nominee, WHOMEVER it is. (And yes, some might have said ‘Romney,’ but that wasn’t the point for me.) If roles were reversed, I’d cast my own vote and proceed to do whatever I could to help Candidate Paul win the Presidency. Some of us have a bit of a problem that that spirit isn’t reciprocated.

Those who are sane realize that there are reasons why Ron Paul hasn’t done better. There are reasons why his support didn’t skyrocket when Rick Santorum and then Newt Gingrich dropped out of the race, but rather most of their supporters switched to Romney. Those reasons do not significantly include his treatment by the press (generally fair, but not very much in quantity) or unfamiliarity of the public with his ideas and principles. He’s a known quantity. Whether they are VALID reasons or not (although many of them are) doesn’t matter. Most people just don’t want to vote for him.

IF, by some miracle, Ron Paul were able to win the nomination by getting enough delegates to control the convention, it would guarantee an Obama win. NOT because Paul wouldn’t make a better president than Obama, but because millions of Republicans across the nation would perceive the truth, that the convention process had been overturned by deft maneuvering by one group of dedicated supporters (does that remind anybody of the way Obamacare was passed?) to result in the nomination of a man who got a small minority of all the votes cast in the primaries; fewer votes, in fact, than some other candidates who dropped out before the race was over.

IOW, they would perceive that they had been done dirty by the very man who has campaigned on a platform of essentially “I will do the RIGHT thing!” His credibility would vanish, he would not win, and it would probably be the end of the Republican Party, once again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. It that’s the objective, it can be achieved that way.

So you can see how booing, interruption, and vows to “never vote for Romney” would not be exactly welcome in a gathering of people who don’t agree completely with your objective, IF they think your objective is to thwart the will of the vast majority of the Republican voting public. But not loathed. And you were welcome to be there in the spirit of the event, a coming-together of Republicans to elect delegates to nominate an opponent to defeat Obama.

Personally, I didn’t find the booing and interruptions to be beyond the pale. Rude, yes, and probably counter-productive, but they were not excessive and not profane. In fact, I didn’t find any of it unacceptable. But that’s just me, and it’s because I believe that most of us really are united against Obama.

A final note about the problems with the convention process. IMHO, the fault lay in the inability to get the votes tabulated and reported correctly in a timely manner. That was at the root of every one of the rest of the problems. There could be many reasons why the voting process didn’t work right, and I wasn’t involved in it so I can’t even guess about it. But fix that one BIG problem and the rest of them go away.

Perhaps you’ve been asleep during much of this election cycle where Ron Paul was clearly robbed of several victories by fraud and outright shenanigans?

Or are you one of those people who hides your head in the sand and believes that everything is on the up and up and that Romney, in spite of stumping to largely empty venues, is actually the peoples’ choice when Paul regularly pulls in thousands at his speeches?

Or how about the media blackout that started from the beginning, not just pinning Ron as an outsider and a kook but a wasted vote, and just as soon as they possibly could they stopped covering his campaign altogether?

But I guess that didn’t happen, either.

No, Ron Paul supporters are righteously angry because Ron Paul was never given the air time or the media support the other candidates were from the start because he opposes the status quo and that just won’t do.

I hear you loud and clear David. I don’t think I’m so far off on the “clearly loathed” comment.

David

May 13, 2012 at 11:53 pm

Don’t misread that. There are plenty who are sane (and that’s just a figure of speech, anyway). “Insane” would be shorthand for “blaming all of those votes Paul didn’t get on the media, or his age, or a cabal of bankers who give money to his opponents, or George Soros, or Fox News, or the rest of the MSM, or anything but the fact that he hasn’t made his case to get more votes.” You don’t like Mitt Romney? Most people “like” Ron Paul even less. Count the votes.

“Loathing” is the feeling that Bill Clinton had for the military. Nobody has that kind of feeling for you. (I hope you were kidding.)

But do you disagree with the substantive parts of my comment? It was intended to be informative, not accusative.

RE: “Half the states have not voted yet….” If it turns out I am premature, I’ll admit it and work to get Ron Paul elected. Then there would be no reason for folks to feel like their primary votes were meaningless and that the nomination was won by stealth rather than through the people’s will.

You will note that I said “There isn’t a thing wrong with flexing the muscles you have to get concessions during the national convention. I think it’s exactly what you should do.” But don’t look to be respected if in the end you thwart the will of the people.

Democrats get away with that because they believe what the party tells them, even if it tells them they really want what they don’t want. So far, our record is better. However, if they fail to rein themselves in and change direction after this election, you will get your way the next time, because there will be no viable Republican Party left. OTOH, if you get your way this time, there may be no viable country left.

Just as I understood zer0’s Marxist code-speak during the campaign, I understand the GOP code-speak during this one. It was precessed by innuendo of party disloyalty by the media and GOP, as if a joint effort, against Paul and his supporters.
The “new” conservative media, along with the old, along with the known progressive media, along with the GOP, have cheated the public out of the recognition of Ron Paul–Just as they have cheated you and your children out of accurate history lessons at school.
They all respect you exactly as much as they respect us–Hell, they probably respect us more, because we see through the BS. But, IF you are pretty enough, or otherwise useful enough, they may keep you close, buy you things, and make you happy for a little while–But it will wear off.

You saw what they did, yesterday. There is no defense. There is no valid claim to righteousness. The term, “cheating whores”, comes to mind for some reason… Anyway….

I heard plenty of “never vote Paul” voices. The party lies, cheats, and whores. Change it.
Then, we can talk about the finer points of constitutionalism in a productive manner, rather than fight with each other while the Republocrats laugh — (obscure but popular tv series reference follows) Like that (original) Star-Trek episode where the entity entered the ship to make the Klingons fight with the Enterprise crew–Identify the entity. Enjoy your chums. Make good with the aliens.

Do you suppose it likely that, just as Ronulans communicated the changing events of the day, that the state GOP communicated theirs? Did the day get smoother or more difficult at each step, because of their coordinated efforts? Were they coordinating with National??? Is it likely that nearly identical rule changes and ballot problems and procedure problems Accidentally occurred 2 hours ahead of time in OK?

Ring-Ring-Ring! Wake-up!

Unlike many, without specifically defending or accusing Romney, I think it is the party which is largely responsible for the shenanigans, That the party wanted to unload Romney via Gingrich, That in Gingrich’s undeniable failing they tried to resurrect the already dead Santorum, That with the twice dead Santorum, they were stuck with Romney, That the reason ALL of the candidates failed is that they could not bear-up to Paul’s principles.

I am for the constitution. You say you are. Let us leave the rest, and focus upon that. Let us be honest and true. Let us take back the country. Let us not fault those who choose at this time to be over-principled. It is the lack of principle which has destroyed us. Let us both develop our own principles. Mine kinda suck a little, but I do try. How are yours?

How stubborn of you to assume that the reported results for the Arizona Preference Election were not fraudulent. After all, they kept reporting fake results all night long at the convention. How can you not be completely freaked out about that? The Republican party is defrauding its members into thinking that Republican nominees have actually been elected. They are not being elected. They are being appointed. This should make you really mad.

Elisha, is that you? If it is, you know very well I have said just the opposite. “If roles were reversed, I’d cast my own vote and proceed to do whatever I could to help Candidate Paul win the Presidency. Some of us have a bit of a problem that that spirit isn’t reciprocated.” and “If it turns out I am premature, I’ll admit it and work to get Ron Paul elected.”

Slim

May 14, 2012 at 2:45 am

UHHHHHHhhhhhhh….. WHAT part of the election cycle is this?
Do you think you would not be informed if Mittens had enough delegates locked-in?
Do you think they won’t lie about it as soon as possible? (That requires enough delegates to make such stupidity plausible, at a minimum… They would begin the suggestion by blaming a basement blogger in TX for raising the topic, then mentioning it on every fox show without discrediting it for a day or two, then silence for a week, one or two mentions on the liberal outlets, then, It Is Accepted Fact! Just watch. It’s not like they are predictable. or obvious, or anything…)

David, this quote and others from your above post make me think that you are saying Republicans will NOT vote for Ron Paul if he gets the nomination:

“IF, by some miracle, Ron Paul were able to win the nomination by getting enough delegates to control the convention, it would guarantee an Obama win. NOT because Paul wouldn’t make a better president than Obama, but because millions of Republicans across the nation would perceive the truth, that the convention process had been overturned by deft maneuvering by one group of dedicated supporters…:”

David

May 14, 2012 at 3:19 pm

Couldn’t reply in the right place, so I’ll try this. “this quote and others from your above post make me think that you are saying Republicans will NOT vote for Ron Paul if he gets the nomination:”

I don’t know, but that seems to me to be a good possibility. Just as you feel disenfranchised to some extent, they likely would feel the same way IF they thought the Ron Paul contingent somehow “fixed” the convention to nominate him. If that impression didn’t hold, then I see no reason why they wouldn’t vote for him. Recognize that I was writing about the hypothesis that ‘they would perceive that they had been done dirty by the very man who has campaigned on a platform of essentially “I will do the RIGHT thing!”’ If that weren’t the case, it shouldn’t hold to be true.

Even if it were, MOST would vote for him (just as we voted for John McCain), but there would not be the enthusiasm that we need to win, and it’s difficult to see how independents would see it as anything other than Republicans behaving like Democrats.

BTW, I understand your fear of the Patriot Act and other anti-terrorist legislation that oversteps. I’m just not completely sure I agree with you. That doesn’t make you wrong, but the fact that you disagree with me doesn’t make you right, either. I do imagine our priorities are different, even among the things we agree on.

Actually, if you support the Patriot Act and similar legislation you are COMPLETELY WRONG. It’s an entirely Un-Constitutional piece of legislation by the determination of any constitutional scholar interviewed on the subject, as is the NDAA and any provisions to strip Americans of their civil rights under the false pretenses of making us safer.

If you buy into the false paradigm of trading liberties for safety than you deserve neither, to paraphrase Jefferson, and furthermore you’re absolutely the worst kind of American — the kind who has forgotten what it MEANS TO BE AMERICAN.

This is not a question of supporting two candidates fairly because they both intend on who fully protecting the Republic and the Constitution. To pretend that corruption is not the reason Romney is being pushed into the media and down the republican’s throats for a very good reason is sad and potentially manipulative. The blood and passion for truth is not concerned with fancy manners when freedom is being taken away from the people who fought and died for it. I would not make light of the media, the banks and the established GOP as having massive influence on the ballot box. Voter fraud has been censored by the media. Why would bailed out banks be so keen on funding Romney.

Why are we intellectualising the fairness of two candidates and the importance of manners when a revolution is exploding to reclaim America? Your points in defending Romney seem out of context, as if you are missing a lot of evidence, which has enraged people of America. These American people here a voice who speaks about liberty and the constitution and vote for him. They are not Ron Paul voters, they are liberty and constitution voters. The sad part is, out of the dozen GOP candidates who started running, leaving only two left, he was the only one defending liberty!

To ask for reciprocal treatment would be okay if two candidates aligned with the values that run deep and that actually represent the people. If you have managed to ignore that the will of the people is being censored, manipulated and blocked to keep the power in the hands of the few, then you are in the way of liberty! And arguing with you is useless unless you are willing to do your research and discuss those important events.

Asking a liberty voter to vote for an establishment candidate who does not recognise liberty, that is totally misguided.

Do not worry about the ballot count in the back room.We had that covered…we were vigilant enough to go back there and watch the counting without pause or break. I was from CD8 and asked to watch my CD ballots walked to the machine and inserted and counted. 4 RP voters from my CD went with me and there were ron paul voters from other CDs as well in the back room observing the vote. If you want a full detail of it here is a link :

The machine was programmed to cheat. We already discovered that. Watching the ballots go into the machine is not sufficient to say that the count was proper. In addition, what about the ballot stuffing?

I was there and I did not feel that I was loathed at all. People were very cordial towards me but generally confused. They could not understand what I was doing there. I mean, really? What am I doing there? I am there to do my civic duty and support the cause for liberty and the Republican party. What are they doing there? My initial response is that I am a 55-year-old woman whose first election was for Barry Goldwater. Mind you I was all of 8 years old but he was my man. My mother loved him and that was enough for me. I am a lifetime Republican but gave up any interest in politics when I could not find anyone with any integrity and who really represented me and my interests after Goldwater.

That was until Ron Paul. I am passionate about religious and health freedom. My health freedom has been stolen. Liberty and my Constitution have been trampled upon. In the 2008 debates when I heard Romney would consult his attorneys about whether he should go to war with Iran instead of the Constitution which says he has to ask Congress to declare war, I nearly fell over. God help us! People are making up rules as they go.

So, why I am there at the Convention rather than enjoying a peaceful Sabbath rest? I am there to ensure liberty is preserved and like-minded individuals will represent me at the Tampa Convention. Will Ron Paul win the nomination? Only God knows that. BUT the cause of liberty will be watered and fertilized and eventually true Republicans will take back our party. And, by the way, Ron Paul is the closest thing to Barry Goldwater I have ever seen!
What I witnessed yesterday was appalling. In our CD there was sloppiness and carelessness and the ballots were wrong and had to be redone because of “machine error” so you don’t believe machine error can occur at the public voting level?

Think again. Until every county in this country verifies the vote with hand counts after the elections, I won’t believe what they say when so-and-so won the public vote! I believe Romney won the public vote in Maricopa County because there were hand counts but I can’t believe that in Pinal County because we didn’t random hand count. When I went there to do the hand count after the primary one Republican did not show up. He not only did not show up but he did not call and explain why he did not show up. The Democrats showed up. SO, guess what? The hand count was thrown out because one person did not show up and we will never know for sure if Romney really won the county, will we? What about the other counties? Did they do random hand counts? I hardly know a soul who voted for Romney. Most of them voted for Santorum. Maybe he should have won the State.

One more thing. We are all individuals and should not be lumped together. I don’t lump Romney supporters together so if some Ron Paul supporters are “rude, noisy, inappropriate, etc” does not mean what the majority are. People like to collectivize. It is so easy to do. Most of the Ron Paul delegates I saw yesterday were amazing. One of them worked all night and then was there until they closed. The sacrifices are amazing. It isn’t just a hobby to them. Instead of trying to swat them like flies and make them go away, the Republican party should listen to them.

Romney will not win Democrats and Independents but Ron Paul will. Sad. Whether Ron Paul supporters vote for Romney or not, it doesn’t matter. We will get another 4 years of Obama because the GOP is so obsessed with power and the good-ol-boys club rather than representing the people.

I guess I should clarify that I was referring to the the organizers and the people running the event when I said we were loathed. Sorry about the confusion. Lots and lots of Romney supporters in the audience said they respected us and appreciated us being there.

People should not be so up in arms over the boos. Do you think the Founding Fathers were 100% polite and respectful?! Of course they were not! They fought for their lives and freedoms! It is important to note how one sided the convention was. Even in CD 5, after they loss the first round of votes, a Mitt supporter went in front of the room and tried to tell people how to vote. They continued to break convention rules

Joy – When the RNC is already throwing support around Mitt when he isn’t the actual nominee yet you are going to have upset Paul supporters. Don’t forget that a Mitt supporter punched a Paul supporter in AZ and OK.

The fact is the Founders founded a Republic. Not a Democracy. We follow the rule of law and not the will of the majority. A lady argued with me and some Paul supporters for the last 1-2 hours about we being not “pure” for voting for Paul supporters when Romney received roughly 47% of the vote. I asked her, being alternate number ELEVEN, so where are the Mitt delegates?! I am representing the truth; the Constitution as the Founders intended it to be. You will only find that under Ron Paul.

Mitt supporters are definitely scared and bitter. This lady also continued to tell me “you lost” over and over again. I told here that I’m here and my vote got an “A” delegate and “B” alternative. I didn’t lose anything. Also, according to Doug Wead, the Paul campaign said to the Mitt campaign that we’ll give you 51% of the delegates. The Mitt campaign came back and said you can have 1! Haha! I hope their first offer would have proven wise for them!

I did see a Paul supporter yell at this lady very rudely and it was definitely uncalled for and embarrassing. I told this lady that if Mitt becomes an actual conservative I’ll think about supporting him but as for now my vote is for the Champion of our glorious and God-given Constitution Ron Paul!

Romney has publicly said (during one of the debates, no less) that he would have signed the NDAA including the provisions for detaining and torturing Americans on US soil. This is a DIRECT VIOLATION of the Constitution and habeas corpus and is far from the only Constitutional violation he’s guilty of.

To concede a vote for this man is to vote for every single ounce of tyranny George W. Bush and Barack Hussein Obama are guilty of and will be guilty of. It is to concede a vote for a President who will continue to defame one of the most beautiful and eloquent documents in world history.

If you can cast a vote for such a person, I do not believe in my heart that you are either a liberty lover or a constitutionalist, because there is no such thing as a ‘lesser of two evils’ when both mean your destruction.

Elisha, just to clarify a comment made on May 13 – “Our County Chair stood up and yelled the correct number and the GOP took her word for it without ever questioning or knowing who she was.” This is incorrect in that the Credentials Chair, Steve Kohut, knows me well in my role as Coconino County Chair. He is also a County Chair and we attend many meetings together. I have been very involved in the Republican party and know the chairs and officers.

I do agee that this event was poorly organized but I am saddened by the divide in our party and in our county. I thought I could count on my own to support me in my run for delegate but I was wrong.

I am hoping that all of us continue to have the same final goal in this election – to get Barack Obama out of office.

Thanks for the clarification about Steve Kohut Diana. I was not aware that he knew you. Did you ever find out why he thought we only had 12 delegates in Coconino County? I know David and John did a good job signing people in. There should have been no question on how many people we had there.

As far as voting for you, you were on Romney’s official slate. There is no way Ron Paul supporters would vote for that slate. I’m sorry you were on that list.

As it was, our candidate only won by 3 votes. There was no wiggle room that would allow us to show County spirit.

Diana, the GOP is responsible for the division of the Republican party. Many of us are tired of the politics as usual. The GOP has deliberately ignored Ron Paul, a true, principled American. Personally I will write in Ron Paul’s name as I refuse to vote for Romney as he is no better than Obama. Ron Paul is our last hope to save our country from socialism. Too bad the GOP does not care enough about the American people to support a true American for President.

Hello, I was there to just off camera to the left. I saw the guy man handling the RP supporter. In the end it was a great day for Liberty no matter what happened. I was proud to be there with you all. Thank you so much for your hard work.

None of this make any difference.Has anyone heard one word about this corruption…NO!
Has anyone ask Mitt about all of this….NO! The so called “Home of the Brave” has turned out to be a lie.Whee are the Brave? The Brave are so weak they can`t even put themselves in a position to ask Romney a question in public,or,on Live TV.Where are those that call themselves Brave? They are all in some corner hiding from reality;the Reality of Fraud against them…and they do NOTHING! Sorry! they do get together somewhere and talk about the corruption,and Fraud,but that`s it…they do NOTHING!!! NOTHING!!! but talk.What good does one expect from all of the TALK? TALK,TALK.Why don`t you people just shut up,and do something for a change.Don`t expect Doug to be of much help unless you need more help TALKING!

Heya just wanted to give you a quick heads up and let you know a few of the images aren’t loading properly. I’m not
sure why but I think its a linking issue. I’ve tried it in two different web browsers and both show the same results.