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Thursday, September 24, 2015

More on Taqiyya and Islamic Liars

Let's start with this, actually lifted from the end of the article:

"For those with a discerning eye, taqiyya is all around us. Muslim refugees have pretended to convert to Christianity (in the past and the present); an Islamic gunman gained entrance inside a church by feigning interest in Christian prayers. Examples abound on a daily basis.

Consider the following anecdote from Turkey. In order to get close enough to a Christian pastor to assassinate him, a group of Muslims — including three women — feigned interest in Christianity, attended his church for over a year, and even participated in baptism ceremonies. Said the pastor, Emre Karaali:

"These people had infiltrated our church and collected information about me, my family and the church and were preparing an attack against us. … Two of them attended our church for over a year and they were like family."

******

"Ben Carson Exposes Islamic ‘Taqiyya,’
But There’s Even More You Should Know
Carson deserves credit for raising the issue, but he actually minimized the danger.
Of all the points presidential hopeful Ben Carson made in defense of his position that he “would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation,” the most poignant was his referencing of taqiyya, one of Islam’s doctrines of deception.

According to Carson, whoever becomes president should be “sworn in on a stack of Bibles, not a Koran”:

“I do not believe Sharia is consistent with the Constitution of this country,” Carson said, referencing the Islamic law derived from the Koran and traditions of Islam. “Muslims feel that their religion is very much a part of your public life and what you do as a public official, and that’s inconsistent with our principles and our Constitution.”

Carson said that the only exception he’d make would be if the Muslim running for office “publicly rejected all the tenants of Sharia and lived a life consistent with that.”

“Then I wouldn’t have any problem,” he said.

However, on several occasions Carson mentioned “Taqiyya,” a practice in the Shia Islam denomination in which a Muslim can mislead nonbelievers about the nature of their faith to avoid religious persecution.

“Taqiyya is a component of Shia that allows, and even encourages you to lie to achieve your goals,” Carson said.

Considering that the current U.S. president has expunged all reference to Islam in security documents and would have Americans believe that Islamic doctrine is more or less like Christianity, it is refreshing to see a presidential candidate referencing a little-known but critically important Muslim doctrine.

However, the widely cited notion that taqiyya is only a Shia doctrine needs to be corrected. This is false, and it lets the vast majority of the world’s Muslims, the Sunnis, off the hook.

According to Sami Mukaram, one of the world’s foremost authorities on taqiyya:

Taqiyya is of fundamental importance in Islam. Practically every Islamic sect agrees to it and practices it … We can go so far as to say that the practice of taqiyya is mainstream in Islam, and that those few sects not practicing it diverge from the mainstream … Taqiyya is very prevalent in Islamic politics, especially in the modern era.[i]

Taqiyya is often associated with the Shias because, as a minority group interspersed among their Sunni rivals, they have historically had more reason to dissemble. Today, however, Sunnis living in the West find themselves in the place of the Shia. Now they are the minority surrounded by their historic enemies — Western “infidels” — and so they too have plenty of occasion to employ taqiyya.

Making Muslims swear on Bibles would not be any defense against taqiyya. As long as their allegiance to Islam is secure in their hearts, taqiyya allows Muslims to behave like non-Muslims. Praying before Christian icons, wearing crosses, making the sign of the cross — anything short of actually killing a Muslim could be allowed. (In several instances, Muslims in the U.S. military exposed their true loyalties when they reached the point of having to fight fellow Muslims in foreign nations.[ii])

For those with a discerning eye, taqiyya is all around us. Muslim refugees have pretended to convert to Christianity (in the past and the present); an Islamic gunman gained entrance inside a church by feigning interest in Christian prayers. Examples abound on a daily basis.

Consider the following anecdote from Turkey. In order to get close enough to a Christian pastor to assassinate him, a group of Muslims — including three women — feigned interest in Christianity, attended his church for over a year, and even participated in baptism ceremonies. Said the pastor, Emre Karaali:

These people had infiltrated our church and collected information about me, my family and the church and were preparing an attack against us. … Two of them attended our church for over a year and they were like family.

If some Muslims are willing to go to such lengths to eliminate the already downtrodden Christian minorities in their midst, does anyone doubt that a taqiyya-practicing Muslim presidential candidate might have no reservations about swearing on a stack of Bibles?"

Even the act of killing another Muslim is not enough to guarantee that a Muslim is not lying about loyalty to freedom, tolerance, and democracy. Muslims kill other Muslims daily, claiming the other Muslim to be heretical. Every Muslim is "right" in his own mind, and is a danger to those who are different, even other Islamics. ISIS is not heretical, it is fundamental. So are the Iranians. They are killing each other. What chance do non-Muslims have? Ask the Christians in the region - if you can find one who still has his head.

So now Muslims of all stripes are invading Europe and have promise to outbreed the white Europeans and take over. Will the Europeans continue their corrupt Leftist notions of multiculturism in the face of a violent monoculture invasion? Are they truly that insanely narrative-bound? Will they die under their adherence to utopian ideals?

Dragon Fang,Given that you are Sunni (of some subset), I would imagine that from your perspective "legal" takiyya, being your sect's interpretation, refers to lying under certain conditions which your sect approves based on the readings and approved opinions of Islamic experts approved by your sect. On the other hand Shia takiyya would likely be considered heretical, since they are the wrong kind of Islamists.

Just a guess, of course, and perhaps you will clear up your own question by answering it for us.

Shia taqiyah for the most part was utilized as a defence strategy against the sunni majority,whenever they felt their minority sect was in danger of being persecuted.For the sunnis,the use of taqiyah is mostly for infiltration purposes into infidel territory.This is when islamic leaders propogate islam as a peaceful,non threatening ideology who only wish to live in harmony with his fellow man.

Interesting. Either way, taqiyya is lying. It is misrepresenting the actual beliefs or purposes of the Muslim or Islamic sect to further the purposes of the individual Muslim or the sect.

The existence of the principle absolutely destroys all trust in both individual Muslims and all sects of Islam. Trust is not automatice; trust is gained through the ability to be believed 100% of the time. A culture with sanctioned lying is not trustworthy.

The western cultures are full of lying also. However, such lying falls outside the bounds of the belief set of the culture itself and liars are shunned when they are found out (or sent into politics for use by cynical lobbbyists). Some western liars run perpetual scams, such as preaching false religion (prosperity gospel is common), and new age beliefs and cults. But also some business models are based on lies (Solyndra).

The new AtheoLeftist PC movement is the closest thing the west has to Islam: it is totalitarian and wages war on heretics to the moral principles which it devises and changes frequently. It also bickers amongst itself as subsets vie for control of the AtheoLeftist moral narrative (lesbians vs. transgenders).

False religion can be described by the hate it harbors and generates against outsiders and nonbelievers, and the presumption of that religion to have the moral authority to punish heresy and/or cause harm to nonbelievers. This is a display of massive arrogance which is based in faulty human capacity to comprehend and interpret human-derived documents which are not even original and frequently are translations of archaic language of unknowable context. Some false religions are outright frauds.

In the west, false religions are shunned by the majority. Religions which become dangerous to outsiders are controlled.

In Islamic countries (or caliphates), contrary religions are either subjugated or eradicated, depending upon the type of Islam currently in power. They are hardly satisfied with physical boundaries, though, and each seeks to extend into the ultimate global caliphate, which would require the subjugation or eradication of all non-members of that sect. And the eradication of Israel and all Jews.

And the source of this taqiyah can be traced back to Muhammad and his Allah:

In the hadith we learn that Muhammad approved of lying Bukhari 59:369 "Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it..."

The the infamous Quranic verse has been reinterpreted many times to placate westerners.The original verse in the Noble Quran read:"Allah is the best deceiver" just a few years back.Muslim translators have soften it to "best planner,best schemer and best plotter".Nonetheless,I'll settle for schemer since it's the closest to the original translation.

Surah:3:54 "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best

The web gives 3 definitions of scheme

1.a large-scale systematic plan or arrangement for attaining some particular object or putting a particular idea into effect.

2.a public housing complex.

3.make plans, especially in a devious way or with intent to do something illegal or wrong

Given the context of the verse,it 's pretty obvious the verse refers to the number 3 definition

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