Here’s the previous gig list (remember, attendance is mandatory, any of you who think I already get plenty of butts in seats at these things, think again):

New York City, New York:• August 27, 2007 at 7 PM at The Interdepedence Project at Lila Center 302 Bowery at Houston (this will be the most like a formal lecture among all the NYC appearances) RSVP soon, space is limited.• August 28, 2007 at 7:30 PM Barnes & Noble in Greenwich Village 396 Ave of the Americas at 8th Street, New York, NY 10011

A little thought on Zazen posture for the day — the reason 1/2 lotus, full lotus or Burmese posture are Zazen and sitting in a chair or on a seiza bench are not the same thing is because when you sit in these postures your weight is distributed among three points, like a tripod. On a seiza bench or chair the best you can hope for is to try & balance on one point — your butt. In fact, most folks I see doing it in chairs just sorta lounge and rest their back on the chair providing absolutely no balance whatsoever. For people with leg troubles, try a higher cushion or put cushions under the knees. Yoga exercizes are also good. Visit your local McYoga, take the free sample lesson, and ask the teacher about this at the end (don’t tell me there’s no yoga studio near you unless you’re writing from Antarctica). Then be nice & go back for a few more lessons.

80 Responses

mysterion – that wasn’t my question. why did you drag rove’s father into the spotlight when he doesn’t have anything to do with american foreign policy? you are treating him like a something less than human just to embarrass his son.

Diet Hardcore Zen is back by popular demand! Uh, popular demand for Brad to be somewhere else, that is.

Next Saturday, September 1st, I’ll be performing the duties of Chief Door-Unlocker & Incense Lighter. I plan to delegate the duties of Chief Bell-Ringer. So join us at 9:30 AM at the Hill Street Center for three zazen periods spaced by two kinhin periods.

SmoggyRob–Good going. Thanks for posting the info here. I promise not to press you into tree trimming activities right before sitting again.Things get antsy enough on the zafu without creatures searching for more familiar habitat.

Went into NYC to the ID Project to listen to Brad lecture and also try meditating in an actual Zen group (at least I think they are a Zen group). I was able to ask a question on how long one should meditate. The answer is about 30 minutes or so. Some places go up to 60 but you need a break of some sort.

But I think what I’m really curious about is how long one can meditate. Over in India is this kid who they claim has been meditating straight for months (years?) now…doesn’t eat or take water. I’ll be the first to write that off as a hoax of some sort but there are a host of stories about masters meditating for days on end. I saw a report a while ago about mummified monks found in Tibet…they basically meditated until they died in the lotus position and their bodies mummified in the dry cold air.

Is this stuff really possible or are these guys doing something other than zazen? What’s the absolute limit before you push yourself to a breaking point with meditation and what happens if you push beyond that? Over on zenguide.com they mention something called ‘meditation sickness’ which can come from too much zazen. Is this real or is this just local folklore and myths combined with Buddhism?

Generally there are three things which limit how long you can meditate. Your mind goes wild and you just have to get up, you sink into a stupor and start nodding off, or your body starts hurting and you have to move it. According the the Buddhist literature with enough practice and skill you develop a quality the literature calls pliancy. When this is achieved your mind will stay clearly focussed on an object as long as you wish and your body can hold a position as long as you wish. When you achieve this a deeper level of meditation becomes possible, which is named samadhi. There are plenty of stories about samadhi in the Zen literature. For example, the Chinese monk Han Shan was doing retreat in the mountains and started meditating while his rice was cooking. He entered samadhi and was only aroused when someone knocked on his door. When he lifted the lid to his rice pot, he found it was covered by several inches of mold. He had no idea how long he had been in samadhi.

Of course, this is just what I read. I can’t hold a position longer than ten minutes without moving.

Meditation sickness is a mental and physical disturbance caused by pushing yourself too hard in meditation. It can manifest as high blood pressure, dizziness, insomnia, or even paranoia. I think it’s more likely to be a problem for the Rinzai than Soto style of practice. Just remember to r-e-l-a-x and there should be no problem.

Thanks for the feedback. Some of the stories seem fanciful. Did he really go so deep that he was out of it for months while the rice grew mold? His body required no food or water?

Or is this more like the Lives of the Saints in the Catholic Church that sometimes have somewhat implausible stories that you are not really expected to believe. (One story I recall was a saint who was so sexually modest that he stood up as a baby and chastized a woman who wanted to give him a bath)

Thanks for the feedback. Some of the stories seem fanciful. Did he really go so deep that he was out of it for months while the rice grew mold? His body required no food or water?

Or is this more like the Lives of the Saints in the Catholic Church that sometimes have somewhat implausible stories that you are not really expected to believe. (One story I recall was a saint who was so sexually modest that he stood up as a baby and chastized a woman who wanted to give him a bath)

i think you’ve answered your own question. of course it is not possible to sit for longer than it is possiblwe to go without food and water. other wise you die. no one has ever got round the fact that our bodies need food and water to survive despite what those guys who pretend to live on sunlight would have you believe.

the other question is why the hell would you want to sit zazen for as long as humanly possible? exercise is good for you but that doesn’t mean i’m going to run a marathon every day until i collapse from exhaustion.

doing too much zazen is an extreme. doing too little zazen is an extreme.it’s all about the middle way.

and to the guy who thought zazen gave you hamaeroids… i really hope you were joking. an office worker spends around eight hours a day sitting on his arse zen teachers ask you to sit about one hour a day. what’s more likely to give you hamaeroids (which as mysterion rightly pointed out aren’t even caused by sitting in the first place)? duh.

it amazes me the stupid excuses people will come up with to avoid sitting zazen. to everyone who says they are too stiff to do i so they’d rather sit in a chair or in seiza…. that’s the point! it takes effort to be able to do it! keep trying and eventually it wont be so hard! it’s like with any other sport (my teacher always says zazen is closer to a sport than a ‘spiritual’ activity), there is a particular way to do it right which will be difficult at first. when you have surfing lessons they tell you a particular method which is difficult to learn at first. for some reason people have no trouble hearing a surf teacher tell them to surf in a particular way but as soon as a zen teacher says the same thing, people get all retarded about it and start getting defensive and sarcastic (‘what so someone with no legs and a deformed spine can never sit zazen?’ No! they cant! for the same reason why someone with no legs will never be able to play soccer!)

surfing lying on your stomach is not real surfing but it is easier than surfing standing up. zazen sitting in seiza/on a chair is not real zazen but is easier than doing it in lotus/half lotus etc.

The Hitler Card (fallacy)‘Was Hitler A Vegetarian?’Berry presented quotes from several sources, including well-known biographer of Hitler Robert Payne, that confirmed that Hitler’s diet always included sausage, caviar, ham, and squab.

Did he really go so deep that he was out of it for months while the rice grew mold? His body required no food or water?

Well, I didn’t remember the story correctly, so let me correct that. In my defense, it’s been years since I’ve read it. The story is actually in the autobiography of Hsu Yun, not Han Shan, in the account of his 63rd year (1902). Here’s the account, decide for yourself whether it’s true or not.

“Master Fo-cheng and others who stayed in nearby huts were surprised that I had not called on themfor a long time and came to my hut to present their New Year’s greetings. Outside my hut, they saw tigers’ tracks everywhere with no traces of man. They entered my hut and seeing I was in samadhi, they awoke me with a chime. When I returned to self-consciousness, they asked me, ‘Have you taken your meal?’ I replied, ‘Not yet, the taro in the cauldron should be well cooked by now.’ When the top of the cauldron was lifted, it was covered with an inch of mold. Fo-cheng was startled and said, ‘You must have been in samadhi for half a month.’ We ten melted ice, cooked taro, and ate our fill. They joked with me and left.”

To wit:Hitler did not describe himself as a “vegetarian” until 1937… From that moment on, Hitler never ate another piece of meat except for _liver_ dumplings.”

In John Toland’s biography of Hitler, Dr. Kalechofsky comments: “This is consistent with other descriptions of Hitler’s diet, which always included some form of meat, whether ham, sausages or liver dumplings.”

So at least we can agree that ‘vegetarianism’ includes the consumption of _ham_, sausages, and liver dumplings. (pardon me while I hurl)

If you will buy into THAT, then perhaps you will buy into THIS:

“The nurture of the new humanity included the need to “encourage the growth of a violent, domineering, intrepid, cruel youth… nothing weak or tender in it.” (Angeberts, p.209, Rauschning quoting Hitler) This reached its climax in SS training, and it corresponded to the Nazi view of “pure” Gnostic, Hindu and Buddhist philosophy, which did not teach compassion and gentleness, but Aryan duty and honor above all (Angeberts, p.220-221).”

‘Check your posture. No matter how you sit, the body should be erect (but not stiff), balanced, and at ease. The sitting place should be neat and pleasant. (But we can sit anywhere and in any position–even lying down if ill or exhausted).’

You CAN sit in any posture. But some are better than others. This is not dogma or cant, it’s my personal experience. Why would I bullshit you? If for some reason, you can’t sit on the floor with your knees on the ground, you’re better off using a bench or chair. But it’s worth making the effort.