Quotes of the day

posted at 8:31 pm on April 19, 2014 by Allahpundit

In a blunt exchange that hit on a major American divide, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Democrat from Nevada, stood by his comments that militia groups involved in a ranch standoff are “domestic terrorists,” while the state’s Republican senator, Dean Heller, replied that he considers them “patriots.”…

“600 people came armed, they had practiced, they had maneuvered… they set up snipers in strategic locations… they had automatic weapon,” the leading Democrat said Friday. “And they boasted about the fact they put women and children… so they would get hit first.”

“If there were ever an example of people who were domestic violent terrorist wannabes, these are the guys,” Reid concluded.

***

This phony event has brought out the worst of the gun-waving far right, and the national politicians who are barely one degree of separation from them. Hundreds of heavily armed, camouflaged supporters of the scofflaw turned out Saturday in Nevada, training their rifles on public employees who were trying to do their job. The outsiders looked like snipers ready to shoot the police. If you changed that picture to Black Panthers surrounding a lawful eviction in the inner city, do you think right-wing media would be there cheering the outlaws?…

At the center of the dispute is the 68-year-old rancher Bundy, who said in a radio interview, “I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing.” A real patriot, this guy. You would think that kind of anarchist would draw a raised eyebrow from the Tea Party establishment that provides Bundy his media oxygen. After all, wasn’t the Tea Party born in a rant by Rick Santelli of CNBC about deadbeat homeowners? He complained about taxpayers’ subsidizing “losers’ mortgages” and he said we should “reward people that can carry the water instead of drinking the water.” Believe me, Bundy’s cattle are drinking an awful lot of our water, and not paying for it…

First, this entire incident speaks to the continued power of right-wing mythology. For many of the protesters, this isn’t about a rogue rancher as much as it’s a stand against “tyranny” personified in Barack Obama and his administration.

Finally, I can’t help but wonder how conservatives would react if these were black farmers—or black anyone—defending “their” land against federal officials. Would Fox News applaud black militiamen aiming their guns at white bureaucrats?

Somehow, given the degree to which right-wing media traffic in racial paranoia, I think we’d be looking at a different situation if the Bundy Ranch belonged to a bunch of black people. And as someone who closely follows the regular incidents of lethal police violence against blacks and Latinos, I also wonder whether law enforcement would be as tepid against a group of armed African-Americans. Judging from past events, I’m not so sure.

***

The great irony here, or perhaps manipulation, is that while Bundy has wrapped his range war in the flag of states-rights and the sanctity of county and federal governments, his twenty-year stint as a freeloading trespasser has trampled county and state laws and policies just as thoroughly as federal laws. His refusal to recognize federal lands, for example, is in direct contradiction with the Nevada State Constitution.

His old grazing permit was eventually purchased by Clark County which used its grazing-free status as legally required mitigation to offset habitat destruction elsewhere in the county. Bundy’s trespass cattle violate the county’s policy. His zone of trespass moreover, has expanded over the years to include National Park Service and state lands, including the latter’s Overton Wildlife Manage Area. One of his bulls attacked a state ranger in the Overton Wildlife area while illegally trespassing there.

His cattle have also trespassed on and damaged golf courses, private gardens and community gardens.

Patriotism is indeed the last recourse to which a scoundrel clings. Bundy’s local patriotism seems to end as soon as state and county public interests get in the way of his business interests.

***

The story reminded me of John Dickinson, a lesser-known Founding Father who opposed going to war with Great Britain. He feared the colonists had no chance and would foolishly expose themselves to slaughter. But when the Declaration of Independence was signed, writes Wilfred M. McClay, Dickinson accepted the decision and immediately joined the Continental Army, “making him one of the few among the Founders to do so. His devotion to the Patriot cause was total, and it proved stronger than his personal pride.”

The problem with Bundy’s stance is that he has no higher end in this fight than his own interests. Though it’s true that the federal government’s takeover of Nevada land is decidedly frustrating to many, there are other methods of protest—less flashy and attention grabbing, perhaps, but methods which appeal to both parties and grasp the importance of compromise and persuasion. But Bundy is not interested in such methods. Rather than using the avenues and pathways presented to him, Bundy has staunchly declared his own law and allegiances.

Unfortunately, reality doesn’t work this way. If only it did—we could rebel for paying stupid taxes, refuse to ever attend jury duty, sell whatever we want on the streets without a license. Maybe our world would be better for it—or maybe it would become chaotic and anarchical, characterized by a tyrannical majority that insists on whatever it wills for its own good.

***

This story really caught fire with lots of deeply emotional people on both sides of a rough “state vs. citizens” rift in American consciousness. This is even though the specifics of the story don’t resonate with that many people’s lives—few of us are ranchers or have armed government agencies literally stealing the instruments of our livelihood. On the other side, few of us feel that the order and safety or our lives are seriously threatened by recalcitrant ranchers or “militia members.”…

It can be tricky, because the type of person who lets conflicts with the state get this far is apt to be, temperamentally, the type to do and say lots of things even a normally sympathetic person in principle might want to shy away from. Similarly, one need not believe in Bundy’s eccentric political science vision of where legitimate American authority lies—to him, counties and states, not the federal government—to feel he’s been ill-treated by the feds.

Very deep questions of duties to obey and the source of private property underlie this conflict. (And slightly less but still deep questions about federal land ownership and management vs. the prerogatives of states, counties, and citizens.) Let’s just say I’d never seen so many people who do not consider themselves rock-ribbed conservatives rising up indignantly to defend the unquestionable value of and need to obey absentee land ownership based on the ukase of the powerful and faraway over the rights of indigenous people to work the lands before this case.

***

Of course, when it comes to fleecing the federal government, ranchers have nothing on oil and gas companies. Remarkably, BLM’s 12.5% royalty rate for extracting oil and gas on land (as opposed to offshore) hasn’t changed since the 1920s. It is well below state rates in Wyoming (16.7%), New Mexico (18.8%) and Texas (25%). According to a 2007 GAO report, the U.S. receives “one of the lowest government takes in the world” from oil and gas extraction.

It’s much the same with BLM’s coal-leasing program. A 2012 report by the Interior department’s inspector general concluded that BLM was accepting lease bids below full market value.

But why beat up on BLM? The government’s failure to extract fair value extends well beyond the Interior department…

The irony here is that the ones doing the prosecuting are the ones who should be prosecuted. It is against the law to use IRS resources for political vendettas and to maliciously prosecute citizens to further partisan political interests. Those are serious crimes — serious because they pervert the fundamental relationship between citizen and state. But we are enduring what Sam Francis called “anarcho-tyranny,” a situation in which the government either refuses to or is unable to enforce its most fundamental laws — e.g., controlling the borders, ensuring that its revenue agents are not engaged in an unhinged political jihad with an eye toward stacking elections, etc. — while at the same time it seeks to regulate the minutiae of citizens’ lives with all the terrible moral ferocity of David Frum on a Tuesday afternoon espresso bender.

I’ve been treated to several bracing lectures about the rule of law this week in reaction to my views on the miniature insurrection in Nevada. What Cliven Bundy is up to, cinematic though it may be, is small-time. A country of 314 million can endure a little jaywalking on the part of its people from time to time. But when you have a government that refuses to follow its own laws — and uses malicious prosecution for political ends — you don’t really have a government any more. You have gangsters. And when the cops and robbers are the same people, who do you call for help?

***

It’s time for Western states to take control of federal lands within their borders, lawmakers and county commissioners from Western states said at Utah’s Capitol on Friday.

More than 50 political leaders from nine states convened for the first time to talk about their joint goal: wresting control of oil-, timber -and mineral-rich lands away from the feds…

“Those of us who live in the rural areas know how to take care of lands,” Fielder said, who lives in the northwestern Montana town of Thompson Falls…

“If we don’t stand up and act, seeing that trajectory of what’s coming … those problems are going to get bigger,” Ivory said.

***

That’s because the realm of politics can’t provide us a foundation for neighborliness and forbearance. At a time when so many expect government to save us because nothing else seems up to the task, we ought to realize that one thing government definitely can’t save us from is our mutual enmity. In fact, the more we believe that our political challenges can only be solved at the national level, the more angry we’ll grow with one another, as all possibilities of governance become an all-or-nothing game. Lincoln was just wrong to hope that “reverence for the laws” would become our “political religion.”

We’d sooner revere the government than revere its rules and regulations. That’s why the left is apt to fear Bundy and the right is apt to celebrate him. Bundy wants to challenge the scope of government authority, not harm the agents of its power. For liberals, that’s a much more serious political problem than terrorism. For conservatives, that’s a call—sometimes literally—to arms. Each side offends the other by seeming to justify their sense of doom…

[Rand] Paul is right that we must deal with the Bundy crisis in the spirit of neighborly forbearance. To do so, however, we need to turn our gaze away from politics for a moment. For devout Christians—and not just the devout—Easter weekend is an especially propitious time to do exactly that. Before religion was conscripted into the nationalization of all political issues, more of us could see clearly that the realms of church and of faith ameliorated the burdensome work of forgiving enemies, reconciling with foes, and recognizing one another as beings plunged up to our necks in the same hard predicaments.

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what 490 light years between friends..
I have a program from the NASA sight that has
a “how far is this” button
its says by car,,,at 60 miles an hour its only 5 billion years..
by bullet train 2 billion years
by jet only 550 billion years..
so is up the road a far piece..

You’re closer than I am. I was only able to go because serious rafter friends of mine were going. I was a hanger-on, but they were impressed with my raft-handling. I had a 12 ft fishing boat when I was a kid, with a 5 horse motor that fouled plugs on a regular basis. So I knew a thing or two about oars.

We did a trip on the Green River once, too. The coolest day on that trip was 107F. By then they knew I could handle a raft, but they were impressed with my big ass straw cowboy hat. The guy I traveled with said he was embarrassed to be seen with me in the airport with that hat, but I could have traded it for anything the other guys had once we were on the river. I would dip it in the water, let it get soaked, put it on my head and let the evaporative cooling work. Not to mention the shade it cast.

canoeing is a challenge.

Fred

jrsrigmvr on April 20, 2014 at 2:00 AM

Damn right it is. I’ve done some canoeing on relatively easy Indiana rivers. And lakes too, but that isn’t a challenge like moving water. It’s fun, but they are so tippy it messes with my head when I’m trying to fish. Besides, I like to stand so I can see better where I’m casting, and that is downright foolish in a canoe. But I still hope to do a canoe trip in the Boundary Waters before I’m through.

The Green is wider than the Snake, and the water is much browner. The rapids are just as tough, but mostly wider, so you have more options. And then there is the heat.

My friends convinced me not to bring my .45 S&W for bears, said they would be no problem. Damn granola heads. First thing the ranger told us at the put-in was the bears were a problem at riverside campsites, having been driven down to the rive from higher elevations by drought. Fortunately, one of the guys from Colorado was well heeled.

no rafting in Yellowstone… so this is the furthest upstream you can start….
only a Teton Park permit is required… 10$ at the ranger station..
so its not like a true “permit pass” like the Colorado,
which has a 12 year waiting list.. or the Salmon in Idaho..
the river of no return section is another multi year waiting list
for all private boats…
now the pay boats leave daily…

In a ten day trip we saw other people three times, one old guy’s wilderness home and twice jet boats came by.

My friends drove from Cali and Colorado, had to drive to bring their rafts and gear. I flew out and met the Colorado contingent in Denver. The only gear I brought that they didn’t have was the big hat and an army surplus, rubber-coated canvas collapsible wash basin that everyone wanted to borrow for washing up.

silt… it looks green from google maps…
I have seen a few bears.. but no problems yet..
I see side arms on the river..
its a carry town… JH..
you see ppl with holstered 6 shooters in town often…
which means… not one drop of crime you liberal dunderheads..!!!

Robert Craig Knievel, the Last of the Gladiators, stars in his only dramatic role as…himself, in a film the New York Times accurately described as “…a mountain of self love.” Sensational opening credits and Evel visits an orphanage, complete with nun.

Our trip included the Salmon. That may have been the last-minute part, these guys apply for permits all over the country, every year, and I think they got in on that trip because of a cancellation. They’ve done the Grand Canyon, after years of applying for permits.

What kind of raft do you use? My friends have tubs and cats. Personally, I prefer the cats.

We saw mucho deer, sheep and bears on the Green trip. No bears in camp but plenty of fresh sign. We cached our food outside camp, or sank it in the river. I pitched my tent fairly close to the guy who had the sense to bring a BFP.

That is sweet. The tubs do feel safer and more secure in the tough water. The cats seem to be a bit more maneuverable, and I like being up higher off the water. If I was going to run Class IV or V all the time, I don’t know. Tough choice.

on the Snake in front of the Tetons I have seen Bears..
but only at a good distance…mabe 20-30 yards
but moose, elk and bison up very close..
I love to watch the Bald Eagles fish..

then I went to Glaicer and rafted the Flathead
north fork and middle fork…
and for the first time I was a bit on edge.. those bears are huge..
they have the largest collection of Griz up that way…
but knock on wood ive only pulled the pepper spray once..
didn’t have to hit it hard.. I think he was more scared than we were..

The only bears I’ve run across were going away, having noticed me long before I noticed them. I think 99 times out of 100, a bear will avoid contact with long pigs. But on that 100th time, you had better be prepared.

I hate to her the BLM/Ranger guys ride me about it..
different laws for WY MT and ID..
plus the states I have to cover going out n back…
If im out of town I have to fly sometimes..
so went with the “less legal hassle” way.. pepper spray…
it shot out 40 feet in a huge mist…I laughed.. grabbed an oar..
I would hate to have to se it up wind..

I would rather have pepper spray than nothing, but hot lead is better. I always carry pepper spray in bear country, but if I get a chance to run western water again, I’m bringing a BFR (Big F**king Revolver for the uninitiated).

I was trying to remember how many times I rafted thru
that ansel adams photo…
counted 82 from the books and I cant find the 97 and 98 trips..
its like floating thru a zoo…without fences..
in front of the Tetons the water is swift… not fast.
it is also at its coldest ..closest to the glaciers..
toughest part is the braded channels.. you have to chose the right one… hundreds of times between pacific creek and moose landing..
so you have to be up on the oars with good decisions..
south of Jackson Hole the canyon narrows…single channel.. big water
great fun rapids.. some big holes… fast..

what would the day be without a silly space post.
if you have ever wondered how they clean the Martian dust of the
solar panels on the Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity..
(no not a Swiffer or a Sham-wow..)
dust bowls…they drive towards the wind…

Happy Easter ladies and gentlemen. Interesting talk about river rafting. I’ve never been to those places and never done that but sounds like fun. Supposed to be sunny and in the 70’s here today. My SIL says they’ll be able to hide the Easter eggs outside this yer.

I told her that to use US flags for a dress was desecration and that the older folks at the party that she was attending(the theme was to make an outfit out of ‘non-clothes’ material) would likely be offended buy her choice of garb.
She reported me-via phone-for being rude. When I was called into the office I was unapologetic and cited the flag code. I was going to get ‘coached’ because I refused to back down-until another manager chimed in that she would’ve done the same thing.
Discussion over.

annoyinglittletwerp on April 20, 2014 at 12:06 AM

You probably won’t see this twerp but way to go. I probably would have told her the same thing. You are something else.

I worked in a department store too. I mostly sold blouses and drapes. Drapes were fun. People wanted to buy curtains and if asked what size their windows were they would say they are just regular windows. I worked with Evelyn. She was a rare person. She used to give customers a hard time. She was Syrian. Her family had been here for generations. She just died recently. When I sold art supplies I sold some to Tony Dungy. The guys will know who he is.

.
I too am with him..
but im not too sure he’s not got a valid point..
its the Crooks in DC that have morphed the grazing laws
against the rancher this mans whole life..
in the last hundred years (the time the Bundys have worked this land) crooked ppl in DC have altered what was law
hundreds of times…
what was clearly “legal” when his grandfather started the ranch
wasn’t by the time his father was in charge..
then when his turn came.. more new DC anti laws.. and more and more..

going2mars on April 20, 2014 at 2:19 AM

.
You make it sound like Clive Bundy is getting the same treatment as native, tribal Americans.

God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood–to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished

Evenin’. Just got home from Easter Vigil. HE IS RISEN!
*Also-you’ll love the stand that I took against ignorance earlier today.evil laugh*

annoyinglittletwerp on April 19, 2014 at 11:54 PM

.
Oh how wonderful!! Good to see you back :)

Scrumpy on April 19, 2014 at 11:57 PM
.

A woman wanted to buy some flags to use as material to make a dress. I had other ideas.

annoyinglittletwerp on April 19, 2014 at 11:59 PM

.
You ought to have told her that if she really wanted to be a flagpole, you’d be happy to help her achieve that goal.

Horatia on April 20, 2014 at 12:01 AM
.

I told her that to use US flags for a dress was desecration and that the older folks at the party that she was attending(the theme was to make an outfit out of ‘non-clothes’ material) would likely be offended buy her choice of garb.
She reported me-via phone-for being rude. When I was called into the office I was unapologetic and cited the flag code. I was going to get ‘coached’ because I refused to back down-until another manager chimed in that she would’ve done the same thing.
Discussion over.

annoyinglittletwerp on April 20, 2014 at 12:06 AM

.
You probably won’t see this twerp but way to go. I probably would have told her the same thing. You are something else.

crankyoldlady on April 20, 2014 at 5:29 AM
.

A compliment from you is very high praise indeed.
Thank you.

annoyinglittletwerp on April 20, 2014 at 5:50 AM

.
I worked in a department store too. I mostly sold blouses and drapes. Drapes were fun. People wanted to buy curtains and if asked what size their windows were they would say they are just regular windows. I worked with Evelyn. She was a rare person. She used to give customers a hard time. She was Syrian. Her family had been here for generations. She just died recently. When I sold art supplies I sold some to Tony Dungy. The guys will know who he is.

crankyoldlady on April 20, 2014 at 6:00 AM
.

One of the other managers kept going on about I needed to keep my opinions to myself. I retorted that the US flag code wasn’t ‘opinion’-it was law.

Damn right it is. I’ve done some canoeing on relatively easy Indiana rivers. And lakes too, but that isn’t a challenge like moving water. It’s fun, but they are so tippy it messes with my head when I’m trying to fish. Besides, I like to stand so I can see better where I’m casting, and that is downright foolish in a canoe. But I still hope to do a canoe trip in the Boundary Waters before I’m through.

novaculus on April 20, 2014 at 2:37 AM

…..it’s one of my favorite things. I got that Merit Badge in scouts and got a lot of water time canoeing all sorts of rivers in Mid-America, including the St. Francis in Missouri……which is the third-fastest in North America in spring…….Used to teach canoeing to ADC kids at Camp Don Bosco……..

…….never went on the Snake – I have checked out the Boundary Waters, though……..beautiful!

rafting is our ticket..
we sit and sightsee
and let the river do the work…
its lazy mans way to hiking.. :)

going2mars on April 20, 2014 at 5:26 AM

That is exactly a friend’s wife said. She said he took up rafting when he realized he could get way out in the wilderness and take enough food and gear to eat well and be comfortable without having to hike 40 miles, let alone carry all that stuff along.

You make it sound like Clive Bundy is getting the same treatment as native, tribal Americans.

listens2glenn on April 20, 2014 at 7:57 AM

Happy Easter l2g.
I didn’t say that.. but to some extent it is very much like that..
the Native Tribes signed hundreds of agreements (treaties)
with old crooked white DC lying politicians..
can you name one treaty they kept to?
ask the elders in any tribe..they may answer you differently..
of the few Tribal success stories, after hundreds of years of treaty breaking crooks from Washington..
I have always like the
Mashantucket Pequot tribe from Conn…

Happy Easter wg
I don’t recommend a canoe trip thru the Teton section..
unless you know the braided channels well..
the fallen trees move… daily..
what was a clear channel yesterday. may not be today..
the trees create strainers… not fun in a canoe..
but from moose to the wilson bridge is better.. less braiding
and from Wilson down to the start of the white water near
east table creek is a great swift water canoe ride..
I wouldn’t run south of this in anything but a self bailing raft..
and never “lunch counter” or “big kahuna” rapids…
there are many sections of many rivers in the upper rockies
you would love in a canoe.. among the many choices,
the Yellowstone river and the Flathead are perfect..

On the “strange coincidences” front, the Rand Paul story (when I accessed it) linked to another article “Liberal hypocrisy on guns and money” that ended thus:

Today, however, Americans often don’t scream at God or the faithful when children are slain with guns. We scream at how senseless the violence seems, how meaninglessness the tragedy. And for that reason, we scream at government. We scream about the laws. There is nowhere else to turn.

Given our current stage of social development, that may make all the sense in the world. But it stands as a gruesome reminder of why politics is becoming the place we go to answer the question, “Who should I fear today?”

From that perspective, it’s no surprise progressives throw vast sums into politics, even though it often dismays them to do so.

However hypocritical, they’re willing to do what it takes to prove Thomas Hobbes right. Hundreds of years ago, the author of Leviathan warned that the only just, sane, and safe world is one where we don’t fear each other because the government overawes us all.

Trending: government control ruins civil society.

PS Christians, and especially Mormons, should recognize the source of Hobbes’ prescription. You have to remove the “just”, “sane”, and “safe” parts though, if you happen to disagree that the government should have complete control of our lives.