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Topic: Western Rite Orthodoxy/New Mexico (Read 2178 times)

Given that New Mexico is such a "Catholic State," it surprises me that there seems to be no move for a Western Rite Orthodox parish out here. Does anyone know of any such plans?

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Given that New Mexico is such a "Catholic State," it surprises me that there seems to be no move for a Western Rite Orthodox parish out here. Does anyone know of any such plans?

I know of a ROCOR monastic, Fr. Joshua (IIRC), who is in New Mexico and has a small dual-rite hermitage. That might well be about it.

Thanks for the response. Do you happen to know where in New Mexico that hermitag is located?I'm guessing that one cannot visit a hermitage, correct?

« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 09:37:15 AM by Papist »

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

It is in Canones. I visited it once on my way home to Utah from visiting my family. It is a really nice monastery - I wish I could have stayed there longer than a few hours.

Maybe I will be able to visit some day. But it looks like I'll have to travel out of state in order to visit a WR parish.

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

It is in Canones. I visited it once on my way home to Utah from visiting my family. It is a really nice monastery - I wish I could have stayed there longer than a few hours.

Maybe I will be able to visit some day. But it looks like I'll have to travel out of state in order to visit a WR parish.

Are you having second thoughts?

Haha, no. I love my faith, but that doesn't mean that I don't have great love and respect for the Orthodox Church. Your church is great. I've always felt my feet to be in both the Latin and Byzantine worlds. In fact, I attended a Byznatine Catholic parish for a whole year of my life in my mid twenties.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 03:31:33 PM by Papist »

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

^ I'll add that I am considering returning to regular attendance at the local Byzantine Catholic Church.

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Haha, no. I love my faith, but that doesn't mean that I don't have great love and respect for the Orthodox Church. Your church is great. I've always felt my feet to be in both the Latin and Byzantine worlds.

Joint the club.

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But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.Leviticus 19:34

Given that New Mexico is such a "Catholic State," it surprises me that there seems to be no move for a Western Rite Orthodox parish out here. Does anyone know of any such plans?

I know of a ROCOR monastic, Fr. Joshua (IIRC), who is in New Mexico and has a small dual-rite hermitage. That might well be about it.

Thanks for the response. Do you happen to know where in New Mexico that hermitag is located?I'm guessing that one cannot visit a hermitage, correct?

I'm friends with Fr. Joshua. I'm certain he'd love to have you as a visitor. I can contact him and see when a good time for us to visit would be.

And yes, you should totally come back.

I didn't know that it was dual-rite - I know that Fr. Joshua was raised Episcopalian, converted to Catholicism, and was a seminarian for a few years, before becoming Orthodox.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 06:21:08 AM by WetCatechumen »

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"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence

"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Since Byzantine is what you are comfortable with, I assume you know St. George GOC here in Albuquerque? As far as I know, other than St. Pishoy COC, they're the only game in town for Orthodoxy. Nice folks. Met one of their parishioners in line at Costco a few months back, of all places, and all my friends from church tell me that their church is beautiful and their food/cultural festival is a lot of fun. Never been to either myself, though I might have to go one of these days, if I get the chance.

Where do Eastern Catholics go, by the way? The only place I know of is Our Lady of Perpetual Help on Alvarado (?), which I've also never been to (neat website, though). I'm just curious because we have two Eastern Catholics who regularly come to our liturgies and say that they like it better (one of them said "it's really Eastern, even though it's in English", but I have no idea what that means), so I get the impression that Eastern Catholicism in this area leaves something to be desired.

Since Byzantine is what you are comfortable with, I assume you know St. George GOC here in Albuquerque? As far as I know, other than St. Pishoy COC, they're the only game in town for Orthodoxy. Nice folks. Met one of their parishioners in line at Costco a few months back, of all places, and all my friends from church tell me that their church is beautiful and their food/cultural festival is a lot of fun. Never been to either myself, though I might have to go one of these days, if I get the chance.

Where do Eastern Catholics go, by the way? The only place I know of is Our Lady of Perpetual Help on Alvarado (?), which I've also never been to (neat website, though). I'm just curious because we have two Eastern Catholics who regularly come to our liturgies and say that they like it better (one of them said "it's really Eastern, even though it's in English", but I have no idea what that means), so I get the impression that Eastern Catholicism in this area leaves something to be desired.

Our Lady of Perpetual help is a wonderful parish. Great priests, and great parishoners. I remember that attendence there greatly strengthened by spiritual life. As for St. George's, I attended once, about five years ago. Everyone was very kind and welcoming. There is also All Saints of North America, which is an OCA parish. I have visited there twice. I have never been to St. Pishoy, or any other OO Church for that matter. I'll have to visit some time.

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Well, I'm very biased toward St. Pishoy COC. But even if I weren't, I think everyone is quite nice. And we do happen to have just purchased a building of some kind (I think I'm the only person in the congregation who hasn't seen it, for some reason), which will be consecrated by HG Bishop Youssef sometime in January, I'm told...that could be a nice time to check it out, as visits from HG always attract all the area Copts (pretty much us + the congregations of St. Mark-Phoenix and St. Mary-Peoria in AZ), so the church is full and joyous.

I don't know of any other OO churches in the area, unfortunately. Wikipedia lists a Syriac Orthodox Church (St. Basil) here in Albuquerque, but that's certainly wrong, as it is not listed in the directory of churches found on the Malankara Diocese of the SOC in North America's website (this thing here).

Well, I'm very biased toward St. Pishoy COC. But even if I weren't, I think everyone is quite nice. And we do happen to have just purchased a building of some kind (I think I'm the only person in the congregation who hasn't seen it, for some reason), which will be consecrated by HG Bishop Youssef sometime in January, I'm told...that could be a nice time to check it out, as visits from HG always attract all the area Copts (pretty much us + the congregations of St. Mark-Phoenix and St. Mary-Peoria in AZ), so the church is full and joyous.

I don't know of any other OO churches in the area, unfortunately. Wikipedia lists a Syriac Orthodox Church (St. Basil) here in Albuquerque, but that's certainly wrong, as it is not listed in the directory of churches found on the Malankara Diocese of the SOC in North America's website (this thing here).

I'll have to visit in January then. In what language is the Liturgy celebrated?

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

The liturgy is about 80% in English, and the parts that are in Arabic or Coptic are generally repetitions or variations of things that we've already said in English. We've got one of those infernal projection screens with a trilingual English/Arabic/Coptic translation, anyway, so there's never a time when you won't know what's going on.

The liturgy is about 80% in English, and the parts that are in Arabic or Coptic are generally repetitions or variations of things that we've already said in English. We've got one of those infernal projection screens with a trilingual English/Arabic/Coptic translation, anyway, so there's never a time when you won't know what's going on.

Would it be possible to use a missal instead of a projection screen?

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Not only is it possible -- it's preferred! (But the screens stay either way; I shouldn't assume that we'll have them in the new church, but unfortunately they are quite popular in the diaspora, and it seems rare to find one without them. So not using them in this context means that you pick up a liturgy book instead of looking at the screen, not that they shut the screen down or whatever.)

There is something to be said for placement of the screen, if they're really so essential. Something like this I would consider very bad placement (and not very good cantoring, either, but that's a different story...), but at the church at which I was baptized, St. Mark-Phoenix, they have screens of roughly the same size, but mounted to the ceiling, off to the side (think far left end of pew/farthest from the altar; you wouldn't be able to see them from the vantage point of that video) so that they are not in the way of the icons or anything else in the altar. So I have reason to hope that our new church will have the same kind of setup, since we're served by the same priests from the church in Phoenix that already has it like that.

(Hey, alright, I made it through a whole post about projector screens in church without cursing...gettin' better!)

Not only is it possible -- it's preferred! (But the screens stay either way; I shouldn't assume that we'll have them in the new church, but unfortunately they are quite popular in the diaspora, and it seems rare to find one without them. So not using them in this context means that you pick up a liturgy book instead of looking at the screen, not that they shut the screen down or whatever.)

There is something to be said for placement of the screen, if they're really so essential. Something like this I would consider very bad placement (and not very good cantoring, either, but that's a different story...), but at the church at which I was baptized, St. Mark-Phoenix, they have screens of roughly the same size, but mounted to the ceiling, off to the side (think far left end of pew/farthest from the altar; you wouldn't be able to see them from the vantage point of that video) so that they are not in the way of the icons or anything else in the altar. So I have reason to hope that our new church will have the same kind of setup, since we're served by the same priests from the church in Phoenix that already has it like that.

(Hey, alright, I made it through a whole post about projector screens in church without cursing...gettin' better!)

I'm surprised to see something like that in an Orthodox Church, though my experience is limited.

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Since Byzantine is what you are comfortable with, I assume you know St. George GOC here in Albuquerque? As far as I know, other than St. Pishoy COC, they're the only game in town for Orthodoxy. Nice folks. Met one of their parishioners in line at Costco a few months back, of all places, and all my friends from church tell me that their church is beautiful and their food/cultural festival is a lot of fun. Never been to either myself, though I might have to go one of these days, if I get the chance.

Where do Eastern Catholics go, by the way? The only place I know of is Our Lady of Perpetual Help on Alvarado (?), which I've also never been to (neat website, though). I'm just curious because we have two Eastern Catholics who regularly come to our liturgies and say that they like it better (one of them said "it's really Eastern, even though it's in English", but I have no idea what that means), so I get the impression that Eastern Catholicism in this area leaves something to be desired.

I bet you almost anything that the guy you ran into was one of my closest friends - he's going to seminary next fall. Love that guy. We both love Costco, too. :-p He's right - St. George's is the most beautiful church in the state.

There are Greek, Russian, and Antiochian (convert, not ethnic) churches in Santa Fe, and there's All Saints of North America (OCA) off of 4th Street by El Pinto (Fr. Nikoley) in Albuquerque as well. Fr. Joshua has his hermitage down in Belen - also, there is a monastery up by Abiquiu - Antiochian or Russian? I can't remember.

Most Eastern Catholics go to Our Lady of Perpetual Help. We have a large extended family of Chaldeans coming here, some Melkites/Antiochians, and some Syriac Christians. Honestly, they're so jumbled up, I honestly don't know who's Catholic and who's not - none of them really care. They view it as all the same. We also have Ukrainian Byzantine Catholics coming here too, and some Maronites.

We had a Maronite mission here but that fizzled after one Maronite family moved to Florida.

There is an Indian mission of some kind (don't know if Malabar or Malankaran) at Our Lady of the Annunciation. There are also various Eastern Catholics scattered all around the city at various Roman parishes.

As far as St. Pishoy goes, I've met George from there - he visited OLPH a couple of times and was friends with a Maronite friend of mine who's since left.

There are also at least two really tiny really crazy tiny Old Calendarist is True Greek Orthodox Catholic Church of America or something like that here . . . they came to Orthodox Christian Fellowship at UNM (I go occasionally) and were trying to convert people.

OLPH is pretty Eastern, though, I would say. Love that place.

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"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence

As far as St. Pishoy goes, I've met George from there - he visited OLPH a couple of times and was friends with a Maronite friend of mine who's since left.

Yeah, we try to be friends with everybody. Both our Georges are very nice.

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There are also at least two really tiny really crazy tiny Old Calendarist is True Greek Orthodox Catholic Church of America or something like that here . . . they came to Orthodox Christian Fellowship at UNM (I go occasionally) and were trying to convert people.

I didn't know UNM had such a thing. I'd hate to think I'm missing the chance to meet crazy people.

Since Byzantine is what you are comfortable with, I assume you know St. George GOC here in Albuquerque? As far as I know, other than St. Pishoy COC, they're the only game in town for Orthodoxy. Nice folks. Met one of their parishioners in line at Costco a few months back, of all places, and all my friends from church tell me that their church is beautiful and their food/cultural festival is a lot of fun. Never been to either myself, though I might have to go one of these days, if I get the chance.

Where do Eastern Catholics go, by the way? The only place I know of is Our Lady of Perpetual Help on Alvarado (?), which I've also never been to (neat website, though). I'm just curious because we have two Eastern Catholics who regularly come to our liturgies and say that they like it better (one of them said "it's really Eastern, even though it's in English", but I have no idea what that means), so I get the impression that Eastern Catholicism in this area leaves something to be desired.

I bet you almost anything that the guy you ran into was one of my closest friends - he's going to seminary next fall. Love that guy. We both love Costco, too. :-p He's right - St. George's is the most beautiful church in the state.

There are Greek, Russian, and Antiochian (convert, not ethnic) churches in Santa Fe, and there's All Saints of North America (OCA) off of 4th Street by El Pinto (Fr. Nikoley) in Albuquerque as well. Fr. Joshua has his hermitage down in Belen - also, there is a monastery up by Abiquiu - Antiochian or Russian? I can't remember.

Most Eastern Catholics go to Our Lady of Perpetual Help. We have a large extended family of Chaldeans coming here, some Melkites/Antiochians, and some Syriac Christians. Honestly, they're so jumbled up, I honestly don't know who's Catholic and who's not - none of them really care. They view it as all the same. We also have Ukrainian Byzantine Catholics coming here too, and some Maronites.

We had a Maronite mission here but that fizzled after one Maronite family moved to Florida.

There is an Indian mission of some kind (don't know if Malabar or Malankaran) at Our Lady of the Annunciation. There are also various Eastern Catholics scattered all around the city at various Roman parishes.

As far as St. Pishoy goes, I've met George from there - he visited OLPH a couple of times and was friends with a Maronite friend of mine who's since left.

There are also at least two really tiny really crazy tiny Old Calendarist is True Greek Orthodox Catholic Church of America or something like that here . . . they came to Orthodox Christian Fellowship at UNM (I go occasionally) and were trying to convert people.

OLPH is pretty Eastern, though, I would say. Love that place.[/quoteSo, I'm definiely going to OLPH this Sunday.

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"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

So, I was speaking with my priest earlier today and happened to mention this thread. He informed me that there used to be two Western Rite parishes here in New Mexico, but both for various reasons switched to Eastern Rite. One of those parishes happens to be Holy Trinity, where I attend.

Apparently, they switched to Eastern Rite after about a year of being a Western Rite parish. Before the parish had converted and they were High Church Episcopalians who happened to be quite fond of mixing some Eastern hymns into the Liturgy. After converting to Orthodoxy and the Western Rite, they were informed that this would no longer fly- if the Liturgy was Western, keep it Western, otherwise switch to Eastern. I guess they really liked the Eastern hymns

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"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are." TH White