Remember too that the concussions issue is also a potential causal factor. Some fans might be a little more ambivalent about football given the concerns that so many football players are having their brains permanently damaged (even just playing high school or college football). This is a huge issue because if the mainstream starts to look at football like it does boxing or UFC...it's going to lose its popularity. I really can't imagine fans not watching football because of these protests. Concussions are a much more likely cause of reduced ratings.

It's also possible that the sport might be losing popularity because of the crackdown on violent hits to the head. People like big hits; and those are being cut down.

Given what we are finding out with the effect of concussions on the brain...I think the NFL is going to go into decline. Parents are going to put their kids into safer sports. It's not worth it to put your kid in a sport that could cause permanent brain damage for many of the participants. And eventually that is going to have a trickle down effect on the NFL.

Yes it is. Also, I have a secret ability to post the pertinent and current stat:

The NFL is losing popularity amongst its core demographic, men between the ages of 35-54.The news follows the backlash of President Trump’s criticism of player’s protests during the National Anthem.

According to a poll by the right-leaning Winston Group, 42 percent of men between the age of 35-54 had a favorable view of the NFL in September, but has since dropped to 31 percent -- making it the least favored major sport on the survey.

Hmm. Is that the key demo? The links I posted suggest NFL is more popular in the 55+ age group, that it is actually pretty popular among women compared to some other sports. Income levels not that different from those who follow most other sports, less "working class" than NASCAR, more "working class" than Golf - now there is your elitist sport!

What made me laugh was you making definitive statements about NFL fans and then saying that you would be interested in seeing the demographics. In other words, your assertions were (as I suspected) based on assumptions.

That Winston poll was of 1000 people. Of those, how many were males in that age range? What is the statistical margin of error for that number? Is a comparison between two adjacent months a good way to identify a solid and definitive trend?

danivon wrote:Hmm. Is that the key demo? The links I posted suggest NFL is more popular in the 55+ age group, that it is actually pretty popular among women compared to some other sports. Income levels not that different from those who follow most other sports, less "working class" than NASCAR, more "working class" than Golf - now there is your elitist sport!

Your info was also pre-take a knee. Something to consider.

What made me laugh was you making definitive statements about NFL fans and then saying that you would be interested in seeing the demographics. In other words, your assertions were (as I suspected) based on assumptions.

I know that I know more about American football than you do. I'm certain you know more about what the rest of the world (rightly) calls "football," but I'm also certain I'm paying more attention to the backlash here. Many serious NFL fans are bitter about the demonstrations interrupting their worship time. The NFL is the leading religion in the US and this is making people question their gods.

That Winston poll was of 1000 people. Of those, how many were males in that age range? What is the statistical margin of error for that number? Is a comparison between two adjacent months a good way to identify a solid and definitive trend?

The analyst said CBS' Sunday NFL ratings are down 17 percent year over year during the first several weeks of the football season, according to the report. Sheikh released a similar report last week on Twenty-First Century Fox's earnings, which he also expects to disappoint thanks to weaker ratings by the NFL.

Think whatever you want. I really don't care. The facts are the facts.

Last year, liberals blamed the NFL ratings decline on the election. Now they're trying to blame hurricanes. Whatever.

As long as the "take a knee," "raise a fist," protests continue, the slide will continue.

Throughout this season and last I have tried a few times to picture a *serious* NFL fan in market X sitting down to watch his team play on a Sunday afternoon, seeing a few players kneel for the anthem before kickoff, then getting so offended he decides to watch golf or go rake leaves in the yard instead, and I simply can't imagine this being the reality in many cases.

I do think the protests have turned off some people. Is it really more than the people who have been turned off by all the CTE-related attention in the last couple of years? I doubt it. The NFL is still king here and has a long way to go before they start really feeling pressure from other sports, but like all the other leagues I think they care more about the generation who will have the ability to spend money on their product in the next 5-10 years, not the generation who will be in a nursing home in that time. The increased interest the NFL has experienced among young people recently, largely due to things like gambling and fantasy football, doesn't seem likely to be seriously affected by "disrespecting the flag".

theshrizzz wrote:Throughout this season and last I have tried a few times to picture a *serious* NFL fan in market X sitting down to watch his team play on a Sunday afternoon, seeing a few players kneel for the anthem before kickoff, then getting so offended he decides to watch golf or go rake leaves in the yard instead, and I simply can't imagine this being the reality in many cases.

I actually know many atheists/agnostics for whom the NFL is "church." They build "man caves." They invite their buddies over. They pick out beers and snack foods befitting the occasion. Every game is a party.

Now, you can think whatever you like, but the numbers are the numbers.

I do think the protests have turned off some people. Is it really more than the people who have been turned off by all the CTE-related attention in the last couple of years? I doubt it. The NFL is still king here and has a long way to go before they start really feeling pressure from other sports, but like all the other leagues I think they care more about the generation who will have the ability to spend money on their product in the next 5-10 years, not the generation who will be in a nursing home in that time. The increased interest the NFL has experienced among young people recently, largely due to things like gambling and fantasy football, doesn't seem likely to be seriously affected by "disrespecting the flag".

Oh, there will always be an NFL. There's no doubt about that. The question is whether the fan base, and therefore the revenue base, is going to grow or shrink. If you think flipping off the flag is going to gain fans, well, I guess we'll see.

If you mean Pat Tillman, which I'm assuming you do, and if you knew anything about the type of person he was, I'd put a whole bunch of money on the line that he'd be supporting these guys wholeheartedly.

theshrizzz wrote:If you mean Pat Tillman, which I'm assuming you do, and if you knew anything about the type of person he was, I'd put a whole bunch of money on the line that he'd be supporting these guys wholeheartedly.

Maybe. On the other hand, he left the NFL to serve his country. These guys want to give up nothing.

And, you miss the point: if a few veterans support BLM and the like, most don't. As a veteran myself, I certainly defend their right to protest, but find the means and motive despicable, and the timing suspect.

They certainly have the right to be wrong. Fans have the right to be less than excited by their stupid protest--and it is stupid, as in ill-informed.

danivon wrote:Hmm. Is that the key demo? The links I posted suggest NFL is more popular in the 55+ age group, that it is actually pretty popular among women compared to some other sports. Income levels not that different from those who follow most other sports, less "working class" than NASCAR, more "working class" than Golf - now there is your elitist sport!

Your info was also pre-take a knee. Something to consider.

my "info" was the demographics of the fans. Are you saying that in the last few years they changed significantly? Or just spit balling?

What made me laugh was you making definitive statements about NFL fans and then saying that you would be interested in seeing the demographics. In other words, your assertions were (as I suspected) based on assumptions.

I know that I know more about American football than you do. I'm certain you know more about what the rest of the world (rightly) calls "football," but I'm also certain I'm paying more attention to the backlash here. Many serious NFL fans are bitter about the demonstrations interrupting their worship time. The NFL is the leading religion in the US and this is making people question their gods.

Nah. Looks like NFL has been in decline for years. That the fan demographic is older is also a possible reason - younger people just want to watch different sports.

And sure, many vocal bitter fans are being vocal and bitter. That's the nature of how things are - people who could not care about it won't make much effort to speak out.

And no, the demonstrations are not "interrupting their worship time" if the game is what they worship. They happen before the game starts, and don't delay the start any more than the whole flag and anthem did beforehand.

Football on the east coast takes place after services. On the west coast services interfere with the morning games. So for me, religion interfered with football. My parents made me go to church until I was about 12 or 13...and I absolutely hated it. I much preferred watching football. Born to be an atheist, I guess.

I am sure people bitch and moan about the protests. They boo very, very loud when they are watching the protests before the game on their TV...

It really doesn't make any sense that people would stop doing what they love to do over this...tailgaters not tailgating, not drinking their beers, not toasting their brats...because some black guys are not standing. They bitch about it...and then watch the game. If they canceled DirectTV and stopped watching football, tailgating...it's because their team sucks.