This is the forum for discussion of all cricketing issues and news. Here you will find frank analysis and opinion on subjects ranging from selection policies, favourite cricketers and match post-mortems right through to dressing room and cricket board fiascos.

KattoI wonder why Carey is vice captain of T20i team of Aus in England when you have Maxi in the team

Have already made my comments on the Baggy Green site. How the heck has Nic Maddinson and Nathan Lyon warranted a ODI call up? Bewildering. Maddinson has just been dumped from his state contract. Why no Joe Burns, Matt Rensaw or Chris Lynn is what parochial Mike will be musing. I have to agree 100%. Is Lynny already being considered a liability?

Nah - he's scheduled for surgery after IPL.

Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsmanA third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

Katto wrote:BBL success wasn't down to Langer but the Perth franchise fielding a state team = unfair advantage

running second in the shield of 6 teams is nothing to crow about

I don't know about the Shield as well as you Aussies do, but even as a Kiwi, I think Katto makes a valid point about the BBL. Perth has certainly managed to keep the nucleus of its state teams, and add in state retirees like Johnson, Hoggy before that; and many Aussie commentators have put this down as being instrumental in Perth's success. And if the facts are true, it is pretty hard to disagree with as the conceptual reasoning is valid.

Perth are doing more things - like full T20 analysts etc. But having a stronger squad is always going to help, especially when Melbourne and Sydney are providing half the teams. It is like 7 BBL teams in Australia are fighting for 5/6 of the talent, whereas 1 BBL team has 1/6 of the talent, and thats not even including the NSW players bulk (Cummins, Starc, Lyon, Haze, Smith, Warner) selected and unavailable as on National duty for tests and ODI.

But somehow Perth found a way around all that and kept by far the most of their state players, where the rest of the franchises have not been so successful.

Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsmanA third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

Katto wrote:BBL success wasn't down to Langer but the Perth franchise fielding a state team = unfair advantage

running second in the shield of 6 teams is nothing to crow about

Mr Negativity. Making the Shield final is a big deal. Only reason WA did not win it was because the Vics spoilt the match by playing for a draw from ball one. Arent all the other franchises state teams. What are you on about?

He was referring to BBL teams when he spoke of franchise and state teams. I knew exactly to what Katto was referring. And he has a massive weight of fan, commentator and media support behind him there. So unless you want to bust out a spreadsheet for the player XI's for each games in the years Perth won and prove the popular opinion wrong, you've got a difficult position to argue against here.

Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsmanA third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

For someone who has been watching and following cricket since the mid 70s.. I am heartened by the next crop of young players on the production line. They are in my humble view the best crop of talent in a generation. The likes of Jason Sangha, Arjun Nair, David Grant, Lloyd Pope, Josh Philippe and Nick Winter are as good as any from the past. I also expect big things from Cameron Green, Dan Fallins, Nathan McSweeney, Henry Thornton, Jonathan Merlo and Jack Edwards

Last edited by baggygreenmania on Thu May 10, 2018 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

baggygreenmania wrote: Mr Negativity. Making the Shield final is a big deal. Only reason WA did not win it was because the Vics spoilt the match by playing for a draw from ball one. Arent all the other franchises state teams. What are you on about?

He was referring to BBL teams when he spoke of franchise and state teams. I knew exactly to what Katto was referring. And he has a massive weight of popular support among fan, commentators and media. So unless you want to bust out a spreadsheet for the player XI's for each games in the years Perth won and prove the popular opinion wrong, you've got a difficult position to argue against here.

I was answering two questions. Rather shabbily as it turned out. But my point that the shield team that finish first only has to draw the final is not popular among fans, commentators or the media either.. Except perhaps Vic fans who have seen their team benefit by this absurd policy for three of last 4 years. My second point was BBL. How is Langer's ability to keep a majority of his state Shield players for his BBL team so unpopular among you guys To me that shows good management and loyalty. Pity some of the other franchises dont practise the same. Whether it is an advantage over the other franchises..well that is open to speculation.

Paddles wrote:He was referring to BBL teams when he spoke of franchise and state teams. I knew exactly to what Katto was referring. And he has a massive weight of popular support among fan, commentators and media. So unless you want to bust out a spreadsheet for the player XI's for each games in the years Perth won and prove the popular opinion wrong, you've got a difficult position to argue against here.

I was answering two questions. Rather shabbily as it turned out. But my point that the shield team that finish first only has to draw the final is not popular among fans, commentators or the media either.. Except perhaps Vic fans who have seen their team benefit by this absurd policy for three of last 4 years. My second point was BBL. How is Langer's ability to keep a majority of his state Shield players for his BBL team so unpopular among you guys To me that shows good management and loyalty. Pity some of the other franchises dont practise the same. Whether it is an advantage over the other franchises..well that is open to speculation.

I got both your points. I don't know enough about Shield cricket to comment. But Perth keep their WA players in much higher numbers than the Thunder or Sixers are able to with the NSW team. That's after Hobart and the Melbourne teams have taken some talent.

It isn't unpopular with me, but if Langer's mode of winning in T20 has been on the back of keeping a state team (primarily their bowling attack) while the rest of the clubs are scavenging around for cricketers and pulling the likes of Clive Rose out of grade cricket, Perth has a player talent advantage going into these tournaments. It isn't speculative, it is actual.

I think it is fair if Perth is playing by the recruitment rules for BBL, and I don't actually know what those rules are. But Perth is not splitting its state talent around like the 2 Sydney or Melbourne teams are. Even Queensland/Brisbane team lose Khawaja to the Thunder.

Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsmanA third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

But Perth keep their WA players in much higher numbers than the Thunder or Sixers are able to with the NSW team. That's after Hobart and the Melbourne teams have taken some talent. What is your point? Sydney and Melbourne have two teams around which to spread its talent...or lack of.. reason they have to go elsewhere to complete their rosters. Wheras WA only has the single franchise roster to fill. So with Shield players from which to choose naturally they have the greater talent. How is that wrong? I would have visaged that is smart politics. In case you are wondering if I am being biased.. no I am Sydney born and bred.

baggygreenmania wrote:But Perth keep their WA players in much higher numbers than the Thunder or Sixers are able to with the NSW team. That's after Hobart and the Melbourne teams have taken some talent.What is your point? Sydney and Melbourne have two teams around which to spread its talent...or lack of.. reason they have to go elsewhere to complete their rosters. Wheras WA only has the single franchise roster to fill. So with Shield players from which to choose naturally they have the greater talent. How is that wrong? I would have visaged that is smart politics. In case you are wondering if I am being biased.. no I am Sydney born and bred.

The answer to your question in bold, is also now in bold.

I didn't say it was wrong. I didn't even say it was unfair. There is nothing wrong with taking the position of 'Recruit players to win within the rules, and if the rules fail to provide a good contest due to the unlevel playing field being too steep, change the rules.' So you'll have to ask Katto about his take on the morality of 'unfairness'.

In fact I explicitly said it was isn't unpopular with me. But there is an actual advantage going on with Perth player pools in the BBL.

It is pretty easy to be a winning coach when your team is just better than the opposition and has unrivaled depth.

Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsmanA third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

bottom line is I'm not convinced by Langer's credentials and having heard him talk he sounds like an imbecile.Not that it takes a rocket scientist to coach the CA XI, but surely we can do better than Langer.

Moody would've been a better pick and he's had success all over the place. He doesn't waste time talking about 'mateship' either, whatever that is.

Katto wrote:bottom line is I'm not convinced by Langer's credentials and having heard him talk he sounds like an imbecile.Not that it takes a rocket scientist to coach the CA XI, but surely we can do better than Langer.

Moody would've been a better pick and he's had success all over the place. He doesn't waste time talking about 'mateship' either, whatever that is.

Yeah, there's a really nice piece today on cricinfo with Rashid Khan being interviewed, someone who learnt to bowl without being coached, and has had tremendous success.

He said after two games back to back this year two games in a row where he was smashed by Gayle and Rayudu that Moody himself and his junior coaches including Murali just told Rashid not to worry about it but that he was bowling too full, Rashid had watched the video to see what went so wrong and agreed.

Rashid since pulled his length back and has gone back to dominating. And Moody had no issues giving him the opportunity too. That isn't just good man management, that is identifying the problem (diagnosis) and accurately suggesting the the successful remedy (prognosis) and overseeing that it gets done. And he could have easily dropped him for Nabi, Jordan, Braithwaite, Stanlake, Thampi/BK, the list goes on and on.

Moody is just a straight shooting analytical cricketing mind. And even better, his hunches on players like Mustafizur and then Rashid Khan pay off. He doesn't just follow the stars, he is looking for the emerging talent before they are established stars. Some will say Mustafizur already was a star, but Moody got him, backed him, won and then he dropped him for Rashid Khan before R Khan was. And this is the best attribute in a coach for me, is one who not only has hunches, but has a lot of them pay gold dividends. Who will make tough decisions like dropping stars when he thinks there is a better alternative, even if already winning. Some just get lucky with player talent and plans, but when occuring consistently, the chances of it being a demonstrative skill based on sound reasoning increase. Moody just likes to stay one step ahead and be proactive to keep winning, not just be reactive like so many coaches are.

I also think Punter is sharp, which somewhat goes against the grain of all the media talk circa 2009 onwards that he was incompetent as a captain. But I don't know between his golf and his greyhounds whether he spends the time looking for the emerging stars. Moody certainly does. Even finds opportunties to be a commentator at the U19 tournaments - might as well get paid to scout.

As I have said before on here, I respect Moody's opinion on cricket so much, I have gone onto his twitter account to see what he has to say. And this is rare for me as I have never posted on twitter. I just think that Punter and Moody have valuable opinions on cricket that people no matter how long they have been playing or following the game, will can still learn things from. If he has something he thinks is worth saying, I want to read or hear it. That simple.

Whether Moody is coaching or just commentating, I want to hear what he has to say. Because it is reasoned, and typically it is sage. If Mike Hussey is Mr Cricket, I think Moody has legitimate claims to be known as Dr Cricket. And he knows his players, just from my observations, he kept Warner on a short lease as captain of SRH, and he is giving KW a longer leash as captain. I don't say this as a biased Kiwi, because I will happily concede that Warner's SR blows KW out of the water. What I am saying is that Moody is flexible to the talents of the captain and players available that he has. He is adaptable and not stuck into any formulaic thinking. But I am damn sure that he is the one guiding KW the most even if it is more off field and less on field like it was when Warner was the captain.

Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsmanA third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

I don't get the 'financial reasons' excuse for calling off the Bangladesh tour.I assume they don't want to pay the CA XI for a series that hasn't attracted TV sponsorship and won't get large crowds in places like Darwin or Townsville. Don't those players get paid a salary regardless? Wouldn't it benefit Australian cricket to play home series in the tropical north on different surfaces?

Katto wrote:I don't get the 'financial reasons' excuse for calling off the Bangladesh tour.I assume they don't want to pay the CA XI for a series that hasn't attracted TV sponsorship and won't get large crowds in places like Darwin or Townsville. Don't those players get paid a salary regardless? Wouldn't it benefit Australian cricket to play home series in the tropical north on different surfaces?

As usual CA under Sutherland are short sighted and myopic.

Heh, I think you're right Katto. I think however Cricket Australia is being disingenuous. I think the financial reasons are more Channel 7's than CA. CA could sell this series to Star Sports in Bangladesh and India. Plenty of interest in it after the series and with India's upcoming tour.

Channel 7 and Fox already bought the rights to cricket at 1 billion dollars, this series was presumably on the schedule that they bought. It is Channel 7 that wants to keep showing AFL over the AFL season and not make way for cricket. But they have monopoly rights on FTA. Whether they'd let someone else have the series or not is a different matter altogether but I am pretty sure that CA wouldn't want its first test series behind a pay wall after leaving nine. The outrage would be massive.

So here we are. Bye bye Bangladesh. This tour is inconvenient for CA.

Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsmanA third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

Katto wrote:I don't get the 'financial reasons' excuse for calling off the Bangladesh tour.I assume they don't want to pay the CA XI for a series that hasn't attracted TV sponsorship and won't get large crowds in places like Darwin or Townsville. Don't those players get paid a salary regardless? Wouldn't it benefit Australian cricket to play home series in the tropical north on different surfaces?

As usual CA under Sutherland are short sighted and myopic.

Heh, I think you're right Katto. I think however Cricket Australia is being disingenuous. I think the financial reasons are more Channel 7's than CA. CA could sell this series to Star Sports in Bangladesh and India. Plenty of interest in it after the series and with India's upcoming tour.

Channel 7 and Fox already bought the rights to cricket at 1 billion dollars, this series was presumably on the schedule that they bought. It is Channel 7 that wants to keep showing AFL over the AFL season and not make way for cricket. But they have monopoly rights on FTA. Whether they'd let someone else have the series or not is a different matter altogether but I am pretty sure that CA wouldn't want its first test series behind a pay wall after leaving nine. The outrage would be massive.

So here we are. Bye bye Bangladesh. This tour is inconvenient for CA.

Foxsports are launching a new cricket channel. This sort of series would be perfect for it.Clearly they see it as a cost rather than a ratings winner that will attract advertising sponsorship. Maybe they underestimate their viewing audience and the cricket community. I'd rather watch this test series than endless reruns of golf tournaments and supercar rounds from 5 years ago.

Paddles wrote:Heh, I think you're right Katto. I think however Cricket Australia is being disingenuous. I think the financial reasons are more Channel 7's than CA. CA could sell this series to Star Sports in Bangladesh and India. Plenty of interest in it after the series and with India's upcoming tour.

Channel 7 and Fox already bought the rights to cricket at 1 billion dollars, this series was presumably on the schedule that they bought. It is Channel 7 that wants to keep showing AFL over the AFL season and not make way for cricket. But they have monopoly rights on FTA. Whether they'd let someone else have the series or not is a different matter altogether but I am pretty sure that CA wouldn't want its first test series behind a pay wall after leaving nine. The outrage would be massive.

So here we are. Bye bye Bangladesh. This tour is inconvenient for CA.

Foxsports are launching a new cricket channel. This sort of series would be perfect for it.Clearly they see it as a cost rather than a ratings winner that will attract advertising sponsorship. Maybe they underestimate their viewing audience and the cricket community. I'd rather watch this test series than endless reruns of golf tournaments and supercar rounds from 5 years ago.

The issue isn't Fox for me, they'd show anything to sell a few more subscriptions, it is 7 not wanting this series and CA cancelling it instead of having it solely on Fox (even if the anti-siphoning laws permit it). But CA has the monopoly FTA rights, they don't have to show anything. If CA wants another FTA channel to broadcast it, Channel 7 is free to demand money from CA or cancel their contract.

So it was easier for CA to reneg on Bangladesh who reportedly to rumours gave CA a vote in support at the ICC Big 3 in exchange for this series.

Long story short - either CA stuffed up the TV negotiations and will now make Bangladesh lose as a result, or CA was always planning on selling Bangladesh down the river. Either way, CA is walking all over the BCB. Which a Bangladeshi spokesperson has called "disrespectful'.

Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsmanA third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

Former national captain Ricky Ponting is poised to be the face of free-to-air cricket coverage in Australia, having signed a multi-year deal with new cricket broadcaster Seven.Ponting has evidently impressed those that count with his expertise and personality on the BBL for past several years..

Fox Sports cricket coverage is taking shape with Mike Hussey and Michael Vaughan to headline the commentary team alongside host Adam Gilchrist, Allan Border, Brendan Julian and Mark Waugh. Also joining the team are Mel Jones and Isa Guha.

The question remains who will chain-dragging Seven have in its coverage now Hussey and Vaughan have been signed by their rival? Perhaps Lisa Stalhekar who is missing from Fox. I would like to have Tom Moody chosen. Shane Warne would be one favorite. Have your say.

Last edited by baggygreenmania on Sun May 13, 2018 1:54 am, edited 5 times in total.

The move to ban the Bangla tour hasn't gone down well with Ed Cowan who tweeted his disappointment, saying CA wasn't doing enough to be more inclusive as a cricket board. "In my opinion, administrators have a duty to grow the game both in their own country and also around the world.. This is sad on a number of levels. Players hear of CA wanting to expand the number of playing days in Oz. Evidently only BBL." With you 100% Ed...

baggygreenmania wrote:The move to ban the Bangla tour hasn't gone down well with Ed Cowan who tweeted his disappointment, saying CA wasn't doing enough to be more inclusive as a cricket board. "In my opinion, administrators have a duty to grow the game both in their own country and also around the world.. This is sad on a number of levels. Players hear of CA wanting to expand the number of playing days in Oz. Evidently only BBL." With you 100% Ed...

Yeah I think Ed is on the money.

Law 31.6 - benefit of the doubt for an dismissal appeal goes to the batsmanA third umpire call for a run out or stumping is a referral, not a review.

What is this??? While Nine will no longer broadcast home internationals, they have already signed deals to broadcast the 2019 Ashes as well as some of the 2018 Women's World T20, the 2019 Men's World Cup and the men's and women's World T20 tournaments in Australia in 2020.

Shane Warne is reportedly set to join Fox Sports' commentary team, although the spin legend's manager says a deal is yet to be signed.The Australian and Fairfax both reported on Tuesday that a deal between Warne and Fox is expected to be confirmed later this week. Prey tell us .. who is going to join Ricky Ponting at Seven? Paddles and katto wanna job?

Last edited by baggygreenmania on Tue May 15, 2018 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mike why are Cameron Gannon and Jason Floros still being picked. They certainly need a specialist bowler in Peter George but isnt he now a bit long in the tooth. Luke Feldman is surely heading into his last season. Can not see youngsters Doggett and Bartlett getting much game time with these dinosaurs preferred.

Last edited by baggygreenmania on Wed May 16, 2018 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Vics have cut eight players from their contract list, headlined by leg-spinner Fawad Ahmed, allrounder Dan Christian and former Australia quick John Hastings, who confirmed his retirement last year.James Muirhead, Blake Thomson, Guy Walker, Jackson Koop and Tom O’Donnell have also been let go.

The thing that stands out here and heartens me as one of his most devoted fans is that veteran Cameron White still has the hunger. A couple of new faces.. in Mackenzie Harvey the nephew of former Vic all rounder Ian .. and Will the son of CA CEO James Sutherland... The other new names are Xavier Crone and 17 year old leggie Tom O'Connell who was let go by SACA. Where selectors are the next gen pacemen? Just a footnote. A big big raspberry to Vic Cricket for the shabby way it has treated James Muirhead. A talent wasted in my humble view.

Last edited by baggygreenmania on Sat May 19, 2018 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tasmania axe Dunk, Boyce for 2018-19. Not sure why Tassie signed Cameron Boyce as he rarely got a game in past two seasons. Someone should pick up Cameron Stevenson. Like look of this quick. Looking forward to seeing if Gurinder Sandhu can resurrect his career with the Tigers.

Ins: Jake Carder (upgraded rookie). Not sure why Clint Hinchliffe has not been upgraded. Raja keep an eye on Cameron Green. This kid could be anything. Hats off to WACA for sticking by Jason Behendorff and Natham Coulter-Nile.

Seven still have not officially named its commentary team. Word out is Mick Slater is the only Nine man they have poached. Jim Wilson will be one of the hosts. Is there any truth to the rumor that veteran Bruce McAvaney will head the comm team?

Justin Langer has forecast that August's Australia A tour to India will act as a batting audition for the Pakistan Test series with spots up for grabs."I'd suggest that might be a pretty strong Australia A side going to India."