Thursday, September 18, 2008

A Sirus Quote from Kiffin

"I don't know anything more than you guys know. Nothing has been told to me besides what's in the media and supposedly what's coming from our front office people."

What Kiffin didn't say was this: "Mr. Davis took a few minutes out of his morning, walked downstairs to my office, and told me everything was cool and that this is all just a bunch of bad information."

What Kiffin did say was that he knows no more about his status than Ray Ratto across the bay in the Chronicle newsroom. What Kiffin did say is that no one in a position of authority within the organization has told him anything, leaving him in the dark and totally alone to answer disturbing questions about his status.

For the sake of argument, let's presume that all of this is just one big media-fueled misunderstanding, and that while even the most credible Raiders beat writers are quoting people from inside the organization as evidence of the reputed turmoil, either the beat writers are either making things up or the front office is loaded with mendacious traitors (which would signify a different, but no less significant, issue). Let's presume that the Raiders are tired of issuing official statements to refute destructive rumors about staff members (despite the fact that a statement was issued on Rob Ryan's behalf earlier this year).

Okay, let's do those mental gymnastics and get ourselves in a position to believe all of that. The question still remains: Why won't anyone talk to Lane Kiffin and let him know what's up? What's the point of leaving him in the dark?

Well, there is no point, unless there's at least some truth behind the reports and that there's fire where there's smoke.

125 Comments:

This is the third time in less than a year that the press has assured us that Kiffin is within hours of being fired. Why?

When ESPN reported that Davis was about to fire Shell, the Raiders responded, and the press said they were lying. Shell was subsequently fired - but in that situation, who wouldn't have fired him? I don't believe that the decision had actually been made when ESPN filed its report.

The press said that Rob Ryan would be handed his walking papers before the team returned from their last 2007 game. The Raiders again issued a statement, and that was translated into - it's Kiffin who is going to be fired. At that point, the Raiders gave up responding.

Al Davis allows no access which is the currency news paper reporting. The local press had gotten used to Eddie D. and Carmen Policy, who would regularly meet reporters in Palo Alto bars, buy them drinks, and help them pick up Stanford coeds. THAT is why, according to the press, Eddie D. and Carmen P. could do no wrong - until they both got hoisted by their own petards.

The press has learned that if they can raise a big enough scandal, Davis will be forced to respond. And that is their game - making Al dance. I have over heard sports reporters talking to each other about Al Davis, and this is exactly their mindset. Rile up the Raider Nation - make Al respond!

I'm tired of it. I refuse to play that game anymore. Yes, Kiffin is about to be fired! Just like he was in January, just like he was in March. The press has lost all credibility to me. I'll watch what happens, understand that Al Davis actually has reasons for the things he does, and allow him to run his business. If I get tired of watching them, or the team fails to entertain me for a sufficient amount if time, I'll stop watching.

If Kiffin wants to know what Al is thinking, he should go to his office and ask, just like Shell did when Shanahan insisted to Shell that Davis wanted him gone.

Just to add, because I know the argument that's coming - Eddie D. and Carmen P. were not so popular because the 49ers were winning, they were popular because of their ready access. During the 70s, when the 9ers were pathetic and the Raiders were competing for the Super Bowl every year, the 9ers were still more popular with the press, and the controversies with the press were just as prevalent. They just didn't take hold then, because the Raiders were winning.

Simply, if Al Davis does not tell the press specifically what he's thinking, they'll make up what he's thinking. And since this all has developed into an operating meme, most reporters are feeding off each other and not inside information.

whether you like it or not blanda, BOTTOM LINE HERE IS ITS ON DAVIS! just because you don't like what the press writes, doesn't take away from the fact that instead of a professional and winning atmosphere, he is creating disaster year after year and it's NOT going away unless the old man CROAKS!

let's face it folks, this is raider fan reality! some of us just can't accept it!

blanda - that's because it seems that kiffin is focused on doing his job and that job is to get this team ready to play. why should he be concerned if he hasn't heard anything from anyone in that building? if he were, he'd be taking away from the team's preparation.

now, i admit - he shouldn't have been yapping like he did. whether there's something to read into or not. and now we hear that pete carroll came in to give the young coach some guidance and advice which is good.

but davis needs to get off his case! all this bullspit is very destructive to the morale of this team. why can't davis see that?

RT and others are laying low in their critique but we all know where it comes from, and that's the top. i'll say it again and i'll keep ON saying it - WE WILL NOT WIN ANY SUPERBOWL OR EVEN A DIVISION UNLESS DAVIS GOES AWAY!

Kiffin might be on the verge of being fired. And I reiterate, the operative word is might. But, I must go along with Blanda here. Why doesn’t Kiffin man up and go into Al Davis’ office and ask. It’s a simple question. What’s my status?

It’s what I would do, it’s what Blanda would do and it’s what anyone in that situation should do. If he wants to clear the air, then do it. Stop arguing it in the press. It comes off as childish and immature. The press is already childish and immature, why give them fuel.

Once again, Blanda (H, too, in this instance), you put more responsibility for the plight of the organization on the employees than the owner, despite acknowledging that as the owner, Mr. Davis has total control over the direction of the organization.

You've been trying to convince us that this isn't a situation. Now you're acknowledging that it is, in fact, a situation, but you put the burden of resolving it on the coach and not the owner, despite the fact that if this ultimately blows up, it will be the owner and the fans, not Kiffin, who have to deal with the setbacks and consequences(again).

Kiffin may be immature. And? Who should be more mature at this point in their respective lives? What's Mr. Davis's excuse for allowing this situation to fester? Who has more at stake here? Who has more responsibility?

No, I'm saying when you have a situation brewing that has any potential to disrupt or distract the team during this crucial season, you nip it in the bud, you don't let it fester and gnaw and aggravate.

And don't tell me it's not a distraction or disruption just because folks are taking the high road when speaking publicly. Anything at this point that does not tangibly serve team unity and focus is a distraction. The Patriots can afford a distraction or two. They've got a margin for error. We do not, not at this point.

Does anybody communicate with each other in this organization. If Al is so hands on why hasn't had a discussion with Kiffin? Why hasn't he voiced his displeasure? Why hasn't he read him the riot act? And yes Blanda, why has Kiffin not approached Davis? What the hell is goin on over there? If it is truely this bad there is no way anyone would ever want to coach this team. Hell it's gettin hard enough just listening to this shit as a fan-- can you imagine being an employee?

raidermike,no self-respecting coach with any positive reputation is gonna be dumb enough to take this job. come on guys, young, unknown college coaches or bungling yes men only take this job because that's all davis can find. if the young coach becomes a winner, he takes credit for it. if he has any spine at all to stand up to davis, he's insubordinate.

is it any wonder why this team and this organization is a laughingstock? geez, even jerry jones is freakin' ridiculing us! what's his team doing? OH - WINNING - that's what!

I don't think Al is going to fire Kiffin until he is convinced he can't accomplish the main goal that Al wants.. winning.

And as far as the finger pointing as to who is more at fault, IMO, THEY BOTH ARE.

Kiffin is acting like a petulant child up until his last press conference when he sounded somewhat like an adult, and Al is Al. He has a convoluted way of running a business.

I don't expect Al to change. I do expect Kiffin to stop acting so sniveling... and the only way either of the two are going to make this all go completely away is if Kiffin puts a CONSTANTLY winning football on the field, or he doesn't and gets fired. Al doesn't do pressers except to introduce new coaches, so we are going to have to wait until then for any info from him.

Gary, we beat perhaps the worst team in the NFL and have now won five out of our last 18 games. I'm happy for the win, but it's a bit premature to suggest that this is some sort of a winning strategy. Let's not write a how-to manual just yet. I doubt that the Giants, Patriots or Colts would add it to their Amazon.com wish list.

I find it odd that so many folks are hammering Kiffin for his offensive decision making and playcalling, while refusing to acknowledge that he might be distracted or demoralized, which would be obvious contributors to poor performance.

>>>I find it odd that so many folks are hammering Kiffin for his offensive decision making and playcalling, while refusing to acknowledge that he might be distracted or demoralized, which would be obvious contributors to poor performance.>>>>

Good lawd Take... are we talking about FOOTBALL here or a bunch of secretaries at a call center?

If Widdle Fragile Kiffie got his feel-bads hurt because he doesn't think the owner likes him, perhaps he's in the wrong business?

"At some point, you have to say, 'Who's making the decisions?'" Gannon noted. "If they go 5-11, they'll set a record (for most consecutive seasons with 11 or more losses). They've already tied the record set by Tampa Bay (1985-89). They talk about commitment to excellence, but that's not getting it done. So you say the problem is Bill Callahan. Then you say the problem is Norv Turner, then it's Art Shell, then it's Lane Kiffin.

"Well, who's hiring them? Who's the general manager? Whose decision was it to pay Tommy Kelly $50 million, and to pay Javon Walker $55 million, and to pay DeAngelo Hall that kind of money? I really don't know. But was it Lane Kiffin's decision? I don't think so."

Take, what you've been doing is making determinations regarding Davis' actions, which you know nothing about, and Kiffin's actions, which you know a little about.

If Rob Ryan can talk to Davis, why can't Kiffin. You know, I suspect that Kiffin has Al's phone number. I also suspect that Kiffin has a cell phone. If Kiffin wants to hear from Davis, he doesn't even have to leave the practice field.

And I've seen Davis respond to rumor after rumor to no effect. If the press is intent on trading in rumors, what do you really expect Al to do about it? Frankly, if I were Al, I'd think it a good test for my young coach to deal with it in his own way because these faux scandals are not going to go away. If it's not one thing, they'll find something else - and then Davis has to respond to that too in order for Kiffin's feelings not to be hurt.

I doubt very seriously that Al spends too much time worrying about who might get hurt feelings. He expects them to be adults, and deal with them like adults.

I'll put it to you that it is quite possible that Kiffin knows he's not going to fired and that's why he hasn't met with Davis. However, Kiffin is also aware that his employment, until he proves he can win, is day to day. I think Kiffin understands both of those things very well, which fits perfectly into the way he's been behaving. He likely figures that if the whole league wants to dwell on this, it's the rest of the league that is distracted which gives him an advantage.

RT, Blanda is a freakin idiot, nothing more than a spineless, wishy washy, Al Davis butt kisser. He would be perfect for a front office job in Oakland. Why even bother trying to convey your point to the man? It is obvious he will never get it. The man lives in the past and actually thinks Al Davis is still relevant in today's NFL world. He is quite pathetic and would get laughed out of the blackhole if he came down there spewing that crap.

My take on Gannon. Seems to me that Gannon was winning while he was here, in this organization, under Al Davis.

Also, Gannon is no longer a football player, nor is he an owner, nor a coach. Gannon is now a press COMMENTATOR. He's joined the other side.

It seems to me that if Gannon wants to be as successful at being a commentator as being a QB, he must know that in order to stay in the business of commentating that he MUST raise controversy! Otherwise he becomes as boring as a bag of rocks.

I generally listen to former Raider players who have no ax to grind. But Gannon is no such animal. Part of the reason Gannon was hired was to dish the dirt as a former Raider insider.

I'll read everyone's posts later when I have more time. For now, here's my 1.5 cents.

Kiffin is absolutely being left out in the cold. I’m sure there are people in the organization that would like to reel him in, but they’re afraid of Al Davis.

This problem is definitely on Davis. He’s the owner. He has made a conscience decision to hang Kiffin out to the wolves. Davis can end this in an instant (just like he could have earlier this year).

Instead, he apparently authorized the distribution around the Raiders’ locker room of some media propaganda bashing Kiffin (if true, nobody does that without Davis' ok).

Three obvious solutions (all quick and painless):

1) Most simply, as RT mentioned, Davis can speak with Kiffin (why should this conversation be Kiffin’s responsibility - he doesn’t own the team, he’s not the GM).

2) Davis can make a statement to the media, like he’s done so many times for his other coaches and assistants. What ever happened to nurturing your young coach? Pull Kiffin in from the cold..

3) Davis can fire Kiffin, which seems to be the direction this is headed. If so, it should be done now, not later. The most important thing is to get this team headed in the right direction asap (which is what I thought Kiffin was doing). If Davis’ ego will not allow Kiffin to coach, then by all means let’s start a new life now. Fellas, the relationship didn’t work. Let’s end it for the sake of the team and the fans, so we can all get on with rooting on our team -- however dysfunctional it might be.

IMO, Davis has disrespected Kiffin since Day One, when he introduced him as “Lance Kiffin.” It has spiraled downward ever since.

This thing is playing out worse than a “B” movie.

If I was a recent investor in a 20% stake in the Raiders, I’d be pretty F’n pissed off about the way this whole thing has been handled... going back to last season.

I said before, this appears to be how Al Davis chooses to complete his legacy. Very sad!

"He’s the owner. He has made a conscience decision to hang Kiffin out to the wolves."

Based on what? All this came about from two unnamed "sources inside the Raider organization" who could be anyone from Amy Trask to the night janitor. He's just choosing not to make a statement, as he's done in the past, because they are usually ignored anyway.

"Instead, he apparently authorized the distribution around the Raiders’ locker room of some media propaganda bashing Kiffin (if true, nobody does that without Davis' okay)."

Nonsense! The ESPN article was distributed by the PR department, which Davis does not likely bother himself with. It is the responsibility of the PR department to keep local beat writers up to speed on what the national press is saying. The PR department has also, on many occasions, distributed articles critical of Al.

"Most simply, as RT mentioned, Davis can speak with Kiffin (why should this conversation be Kiffin’s responsibility - he doesn’t own the team, he’s not the GM)."

None of this has emanated from Davis. It has all come from the press.

"Davis can make a statement to the media, like he’s done so many times for his other coaches and assistants. What ever happened to nurturing your young coach? Pull Kiffin in from the cold..."

Al has been called a liar for just saying he would have preferred drafting Leinart over Huff. When he's had his staff make statements, it's been said that Davis controls what the staff says so that must be a lie. How, exactly, does Davis deal with that dysfunction.

I suspect that this all started because Davis likely uttered a few expletives during and after the Denver Debacle with Kiffin's name attached. I can understand that. I did too. He may have even said something along the lines of, "I ought to fire the SOB (Kiffin that is, not Ryan)." Those who happened to be in earshot said something to their buds in the press and a crisis was born.

But after the KC game, Al's likely a happier camper. He'll wait and see what the Buffalo game brings.

This is way beyond the pale, and the fact that its gotten this far only shows what a high maintenance drama queen Davis has become.

When Davis had Ron Wolf and Bruce Allen between himself and the coach and media, Davis was somewhat manageable.

This is not something new by the way. The Raiders won the AFL and then lost SB II to Green Bay. The coach of that team, John Rauch, quit the defending AFL champion Raiders and went to the Buffalo Bills as their coach. Other than Bill Parcells leaving New England after the 1996 season, I can't ever remember a coach leaving a defending Conferance champion team.

The only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history.

Last year it was rumored that Kiffin was going to take the Arkansas job. He said that he'd heard about the job but wasn't pursuing it. The press called Kiffin a liar. Kiffin didn't get the Arkansas job.

Kiffin also never went to Al Davis to tell him the rumors weren't true, and reportedly Davis was about to fire Kiffin for his disloyalty.

But when the shoe is on the other foot, it's Al's responsibility to go to Kiffin and say, "there, there, my son. You will become a great Jedi."

When Ryan addressed the media last week, he was sent out by Davis to answer for the poor defensive performance against Denver. While the media claims that Ryan came out to throw Kiffin to the wolves, show me where in that transcript he does that.

The media says that Kiffin says that Ryan and Davis conspire to keep him away from the defense. Show me where in Kiffin's transcripts he says that.

Through all of this, Kiffin says he has't talked to Davis, he isn't very concerned, and he throws jokes at the media about it. And all the while, through his good mood, he says that it is true that he hasn't heard anything form anyone in the organization that he's on the hot seat, nor has he heard that he's not. So why does the organization have to come out and say Kiffin is not on the hot seat if they have never said he's on it?

This site is beginning to sound like a bunch of high school heathers looking for a fainting couch.

Personally, I don't want Mr. Davis gone, I want to see him make better decisions and ultimately win again.

There's nothing better for me as a Raiders fan than to see the Raiders flourish under Al Davis. Some day, Mr. Davis will be gone, and winning without him will pale in comparison to winning with him. He is the Raiders.

The main obstacle right now is an ongoing plague of bad organizational decisions, for which I must hold him most responsible (if not him, who then?).

He needs to find a way to stem the tide of bad decisions. This will probably require radical change (such as the hiring of a GM, which qualifies as radical change in Oakland). I hope that he can do what it takes.

Take, on your last statement, we are in complete agreement. But right now, for this season, I'm not so sure the decisions have all been bad.

What it comes down to is I don't care whether or not there is happiness in Alameda. From 1970 through 1974, I saw the Oakland A's win three consecutive World Series titles. This from a team that regularly broke into fist fights in the locker room (quite literally).

If Kiffin has had his feathers ruffled, I don't care. What I care about are Ws. Right now we are 1-1. I'd like to focus on that, and what the strategy needs to be to win next week. All we have done this entire week is talk about personalities. I might just as well read People magazine.

Blanda - you’ve tried to refute every statement I made, but I really don’t see any substantiation, just speculation. I can offer more of that.

Based on his own statements to the media, do you not think Kiffin is on an island by himself in Alameda? What good can come of that? Is there ANY continuity in this multi-million dollar franchise? I don’t see it.

Now take the current mess, rumors, and distractions in a REAL world scenario context.

Isn't it the supervisor's direct responsibility to manage his employee?

Isn't it the supervisor's direct responsibility to counsel, evaluate, scold, instruct, and motivate his employee to get the best possible performance from him?

The reason I bring up this point is the ridiculous argument that it is Kiffin who should approach his boss (Davis) to ask about his status and get some clarity about the rumors swirling around.

If Davis truly cares about winning he would quickly realize that his HC should not be answering questions every F'N day about his job status. The coaching staff and players deserve better.

So, Davis doesn't want to issue an official statement to the press ... In the meantime, how hard would it be for him to spend 5 minutes talking with the HC he hand selected?

Frankly, he doesn't even have to tell Kiffin that everything is "A OK" ... he can just tell him he is on a short leash and the performance of the team will dicate his tenure. This gives Davis the wiggle room to axe Kiffin if/when the Raiders perform badly.

In the real world, a supervisor takes the steps to resolve any issues and counsel the employee. The supervisor might even go as far as saying to the employee "Joe if x,y,z isn't improved, I'm going to have to let you go".

Professional football really is no differnt than the corporate world. There is a chain of command, performance evaluations, a bottom line. The performance of such an entity's success is built on personal relationships.

The relationship that Davis has with Kiffin, his most important employee, is atrocious.

My bottom line: Davis is accountable for hiring Kiffin. He needs to either resolve this unhealthy relationship or go in another direction.

The lack of decisive rectifying action and constant turmoil is running this organization into the ground.

My instinct tells me that Davis is waiting to take action immediately following the Chargers game leading up to the bye week. I hope I'm wrong, the Raiders win the next 2 games, but I'm not holding my breath.

Is it just me or does Davis seem to be more sensitive and stubborn in his old age. The only reason I think these rumors continue to swirl is that the Davis/Kiffin relationship is beyond repair which is a shame. I feel like Davis has Kiffin twisting in the wind as a form of punishment and revenge for his feeling being hurt about the college rumors and the comment Kiffin made about the D after the Broncos game.

RT, I remember when you used to post "News you can't use" articles that lambasted the journalists that wrote based on speculation and fantasy and presented it as fact.

And yet here you are, speculating on your own and using an article for your evidence that is based *entirely* on "anonymous sources". That's right, an article from the San Jose Merc (and we know how unbiased they are towards the Raiders organization) based on unnamed sources is the seed that has spawned every other story across ESPN, Fox and other media outlets. Yet, to read the stories you would think that each writer heard the "anonymous sources" first hand.

Have you finally let the spin get to you?

I urge you to read your own take from last year and think very hard on it:

Roundrockraider, my take hasn't changed, and I don't think there's much comparison between the Kiffin-to-Arkansas rumors and the current ones.

First off, the most credible local Raiders beat writers weren't repeatedly citing sources within front office saying that the Kiffin to Arkansas job was a burning issue within the organization. The problem was that local writers were citing another questionable media outlet as their source.

Additionally, no one in the organization was acting publicly like the Arkansas issue was a big issue, whereas now we have Kiffin, the players and sources within the organization all publicly alluding to a rift.

Sure, there are plenty of media going nuts with this current story without doing any original reporting on the matter, and speculating beyond the parameters of responsible journalism. So many, in fact, that I can't even keep up with them.

At this point, however, irresponsible sports journalism can't be my first concern. My first concern must be what has become an obvious issue for my team, one that is undermining the job at hand, at precisely the time we can least afford it--on the verge of setting the record for most consecutive 11 or more loss seasons in modern NFL HISTORY!

I have my priorities, and at the top of the list is not seeing the RAIDERS (The RAIDERS!!!!) etched into this infamous, shameful page of the record books.

I would bet my last dollar that every NFL owner has had numerous conversations with their head coach over the past 2 weeks.

Al Davis has not said a single word to Kiffin the past 2 weeks.

Anyone who thinks this is a "normal" owner/head coach relationship is fooling themselves.

The media can be very adept at spinning a story in all different directions but the one thing no one with any brain cells can spin is the FACT that Davis and Kiffin do NOT have a true working relationship whatsoever.

No line of communication the past 2 weeks at the very beginning stages of a BRAND new season ??? You've got to be kidding yourself if this doesn't spell out Dysfunction with a capital "D". Ye gads.

Roundrockraider - Rumors aside, I think most of us are reacting to the fact that Kiffin himself has stated he is basing his understanding of his tenure as HC on media reports because he has had no communication with Al Davis (he says weeks, but it could be longer). That's really messed up.

Off topic, where is Hochuli officiating this weekend? Not Buffalo, I hope!

What is spineless is attacking a guy on this site and not having the intestinal fortitude to sign it. Blanda was a fan of this team when many on this site were still in diapers.

Take, sorry for the personal attack on Anon, but I prefer to know who I'm talking to.

Calico,

Good points, but I would add:

Were it me, and I was responsible for some 60 folks performance, I would go to the boss and ask.

Kiffin is the supervisor of the players. If he's distracted, they are distracted.

Additional point.

Let's say Al comes out and gives Kiffin a vote of confidence. The next thing you will see in the press is stories of how many coaches were fired within 72 hours after receiving the aforementioned vote of conficence.

It won't stop if Al makes a statement. It won't stop if Kiffin denies the rumors, including the latest one linking him with Syracuse.

In other words, it won't stop. In Gruden's third year they started the Gruden watch. He was on the hot seat.

I get Google news alerts in my email for the Raiders. For the most part I read the headings then delete the email. Because it's all the same. Al bad, Kiffin screwed. I have fun on this site and pretty much ignore the rest with a few exceptions, e.g. Jones and McDonald.

One more thing, for Anon 2:12. With everything Al Davis has done for football, and the memories I have for the last 44 years. Damn right I'll defened him. Until I hear Kiffin has been fired, I'm assuming Al still wants him as coach. And, if Ryan or Loftin replace him in the next few weeks, I'll still be there on Sunday.

- Buffalo will be playing their third home game of the season (How is that possible?). - We come into town with four consecutive wins against the Bills. - Although they've surprised everyone in the first two weeks, this is a team whose opponents will likely end the week 0-3 (Jacksonville losing to Indy) and 2-1 (Assuming the Seahawks can beat the Rams). - Our running game will be limited with McFadden recovering from injury and Fargas unlikely to play. - Javon's break out game is overdue. (Kiffin insists that most of those throw aways were a credit to Russell's decision making. Maybe.)

Things I'd like to see:

1. Curry use Stick'm. 2. Start McFadden, but use Bush up the middle to set the tone. Once they've taken the pounding for a few series, throw McFadden into the mix for runs outside. 3. At least two interceptions, by our the secondary. 4. I want to see the Defense force and recover a fumble. 5. Another week of no Turnovers by Russell.

And since I'm building a wish list...

I would like to only see Shane during the PAT.

Thoughts, Raiders fans?

BTW, did anyone notice that our little home here at RT is linked from McDonald's blog?

I find it funny how some of you find it pointless to talk about personalities, ownership and larger issues at this time. We have tied the record for most consecutive 11 or more loss seasons in the modern history of the NFL. What is it about the magnitude of that record that you don't understand?

With so many opportunities to get it right (high draft picks, coaching changes, etc.) over the past five years, we should be clearly moving forward with a strong, united staff that will serve as a foundation for years to come.

Anything that indicates we are not on such a path is a significant (and at this point scandalous) development that could delay organizational progress that is already way, way behind schedule.

I wonder why Raiders fans might be so sensitive to such issues? Could it have to do with the fact that we have tied the Buccaneers (and passed the Cardinals, Lions, etc.) for the worst run in modern NFL history? Some of you seem fine with that. I'm not fine with that.

This isn't 2006. With more failure comes more pressure, more scrutiny, and less margin for error. This is a universal and indisputable phenomenon in sports, business and life.

Take, Kiffin seems to have a better perspective than you do. It's not about the last four years, it's about the game on Sunday. That is all he can control right now, and I refuse to say that isn't how it should be.

I agree with H, if Davis responds, it only will get worse. If Davis speaks to Kiffin, then Kiffin will get to spend his time explaining what the conversation was about. If it's not one thing it's another. Therefore, the best thing to do is ignore the press and focus on the practice field where the press is excluded.

Kiffin doesn't spend his time dealing with this issue other than in press conferences. Press conferences do not prepare the team, they are to inform the public which the press has no intention of doing. However, under NFL rules, the Raiders are required to hold press conferences.

Kiffin claims the issue is not distracting. He says he can't control what Davis does (or what the press says), so why worry about it. If it becomes an issue to Kiffin, he should make management aware that it has become and issue.

The worst thing that this team could do right now is focus on "not losing" eleven games. I'd much rather they played to win 11 games.

I am not sure how any Raider fan can defend Al in this. There is a reason he was voted the 31st worst owner in the nfl, it because he sucks. I have been a Raider fan for 30 plus years and I used to think Al was the shit and for many years he was. But the game has long passed him by ( the NFL not the rapper) and he needs to move on to his next career as Emperor of the Sith. What happened to Gannon was his coach (and our best coach since Madden) was traded because he had become bigger than Al and Al is such an attention whore he couldn't take it.

Kiffin will be fired Ryan the retard will be hired and we will still suck.

Blanda, the Lions should hire you. You could speak on behalf of Matt Millen. When they hold the next Millen Man March, you could tell folks to just calm down and focus on next Sunday. Why get riled up after years of agony, minor-league football and ongoing mismanagement? It's only thousands of dollars you're spending each year on season tickets, parking and travel with the implicit assurance that things are going to change. Don't worry, be happy.

To the guy that was talking about the Bills game, I think they played last week @ Jacksonville. I agree not only Curry needs stickum but all the wr'ers could use some, aside from Schilens, I have not seen him drop a pass yet. With Stroud and Williams in the middle it may be tough running in there, hopefully we can establish something so we can go to play action. I will say I have really liked what I have seen of Jamarcus thus far and I think Kiffin should get a lot of credit for that. The Bills are 2 - 0 and will be a tough game on the road and on the East coast. Hopefully we will not have 25+ wind gusts this week.

Davis called Gruden and asked him did he want to stay or did he want to go? Gruden said he wanted to be closer to his family. Davis called The Suckaneers back and made the deal.

That's how it happened, and Gruden backs it up.

At the end of the 2001 season there was a contract offer with a nice raise on the table. Gruden's agent then began curculating rumors connecting Gruden with college positions including Florida. At one time he had him going to Notre Dame.

Now, that has nothing to do with the currentl situation except the media has connected Kiffin with open positions at Arkansas and UCLA.

Blanda,

We old guys gotta take care of each other. I know you got my back, and the way it's been acting up lately you can keep it. I'm going in for my third set of injections for the year.

Wow, RT, the most consecutive 11 loss seasons?! I knew things were bad, but I did not know it was this bad.

Davis' legacy is going down in flames. If Davis gets the glory of past Raider successes, then he also has to take responsibility for the most recent failures. He is the ultimate leader of the organization(as the owner and acting GM), if he can't or won't lead, then he needs to step aside and let someone take over.

I disagree, H. I think Davis gets a lot (if not most) of the credit for past successes. He has put together some incredible teams and is well-respected for it. He is not liked by the media because of his prickly personality-- we can all agree Al Davis is not warm and fussy.

Mr. Davis certainly gets a ton of credit from me. One of my early takes in 2005 was titled "I Love Al Davis." I have on many occasions defended him against the "Jon Gruden alone took the Raiders to the Super Bowl" crowd (hey, Jon Gruden not only won that Super Bowl, he lost it, too?).

In fact, this is exactly why I am holding Mr. Davis most accountable for this mess we've endured for five years.

It would be hypocritical of me to give most of the credit to Al Davis for the great years while pretending that suddenly everything is the fault of the subordinates he hired, and that his role in this infamous record is negligible.

Now, if I'd given Gruden more credit than Davis for that run, it would make sense for me to put more blame on Turner, Shell, etc. for our current predicament. That would be consistent.

I guess I don't understand why its so important to so many Raider fans that Al gets the blame for everything. What good does it do? What are you going to do about it? Get the owner fired? Last I checked, he is still alive, and as long as he is alive, he can do anything he wants with this franchise. I agree with Kiffin, I don't worry too much about things I have no control over. If it makes you feel better to pound your fists on the floor every day blaming Al, knock yourselves out.

I was just addressing the topic, since it was brought up others, including you, and since it's relevant to my own stance articulated throughout the past several days.

Since some are suggesting that I am an "IAAFer" because I simply hold him most responsible for our predicament, it's important for me to point out that (1) I am a confirmed fan of Mr. Davis and (2) my current criticism is, in fact, quite consistent with my past support of him.

Both my support and my criticism of Mr. Davis are born of the same viewpoint, which is that the leader at the top gets the most credit for the good times as well as bad times, and that the leader is most responsible for the direction of an organization, whether that direction is up or down.

Gary, I'll say what I said a few days ago: this is a daily fan site, the whole point is to follow the ups and downs of the Raiders. Why wouldn't folks share their feelings on Al Davis, who is the most important force in the organization?

No one's losing sleep or pounding their fists or kicking their dog over it (well, at least I'm not). But why shouldn't we discuss concerns and swap thoughts about something we care about?

He's not going anywhere! He doesn't need to change! Everything's fine! After 19 wins in five years, why can't you just be positive!?

Well then, let's shutter this place, because there's apparently nothing to discuss.

When Kiffen is fired and he will be, just quit going to the damn games and get back at Al the only way we can. When fans quit showing up something will have to change.Five coaches and nothing has changed in five years. This tells me it's the GM/Owner that need to be changed.

if i stood outside a popular restraunt and yelled about the rats and the filth inside this place, true or not, it would hurt bussiness. if the place were the cleanest place with the best food wouldn't matter. some would beleive what they are hearing. some faithfull patrons (blanda, H) would keep eating there to show the others the way. but everytime the owner comes out with the clean bill of health from the healthboard, i just wait a few days then start yelling again outside the restraunt about how they are serving fresh e-colie inside. the more times i do this the more people tend to believe there is something wrong with this place. bring up something that i lied about in the past....perfect!!! they'll buy that even more!!!

as far as the mediots predicting kiffins firing, keep it up ya numbnuts, eventually you'll be right, and at least partially responsible for it.

frkyraider, you understand my point exactly. A lot of crap has been thrown against the wall. I guess some of it was bound to stick.

As for those who question why we retained Fargas:

“We’ll be on the safe side with Justin. That does hurt us in a number of things because he is the one veteran back that understands our protections the most,” Kiffin said. “To me he’s kind of the heartbeat of our offense by who he is. If you can be in our locker room before games and on our sidelines during games, this is a guy that keeps these guys together with his energy. He’s just a dynamic competitor that we’ll miss if he can’t play. The young bucks will have to go and step up.”

Is there any fan on this board that is more clueless than Blandarocked? I mean his "handle" says it all about someone that is living in the past and pining for the days of George Blanda. I picture Blanda as the Kevin Bacon character in the movie "Animal House", particularly in the one scene when the alumni parade erupts into chaos and Kevin Bacon's character is saying "Everyone remain calm" "We must remain calm". What a clueless putz Blanda is and it is fans like him that give Raider fans a bad name. I guess every NFL team has fans like Blanda though. I can only imagine what the Cardinals and Lions fan versions of Blandarocked must be like lol.

Frykraider, good analogy, but in our restaurant, we also have the chef (Kiffin), the waiters (the players) and accountants (front office people speaking to credible beat writers) all alluding to problems, too. Not to mention the fact that we haven't exactly been serving up five-star football. So while the media are fanning the flames, a lot of the fuel for the fire has been served to them on a silver platter.

It's going to be an interesting Sunday. No Fargas, and a limited McFadden. We're still uncertain as to Walker.

No question that Kiffin is going to have to open up Russell a bit, and with Walker out, Curry is going to have to step up. Our oponents so far have been crowding Miller and preventing Russell from going to him.

The restaurant analogy is an interesting one because I am not all that dissatisfied with the product. I know I know... all anyone cares about is the wins. The wins. the wins. You are all the same as Al.. I have said it 20 fucking times.

With the exception of the Monday night game, three games last season, and the games when the raiders quit at the end of Shell's debacle, the Raiders were in every game.

They lost a lot of them... but they were entertaining games.

All Take talks about here is the losing.

Yet he still is a season ticket holder... well damn.. he must be getting entertained somehow.. either that or he is a complete masochist... which is it?

Win or lose, I am a Raider fan. Winning is more fun, but until Al starts acting like he doesn't care what product is on the field, I will still be entertained by his product every week.

Why not be give up and jump ship (which I STILL cannot believe tha IAAFers have not done yet if they had any integrity)?

Because its been pretty consistent for forty fucking years of my life.

Further... it's not so bad that are so many self-loathing Raider fans, that much I can deal with.. the problem with it is that all the self-loathing Raider fans don't seem happy unless they point out that anyone that isn't a self-loathing Raider fan is the village idiot.

Gary, did you just say that you're "not all that dissatisfied with the product?" Wow. Would you care to define what it would take for you to be dissatisfied with the product, now that we've tied the NFL record for consecutive futility? So much for Commitment to Excellence. You have some explaining to do to Mr. Davis. I know he's not satisfied.

You say all I talk about is the losing? Well, when you lose a lot (at a record pace, no less), that tends to be what people talk about.

If you were a Patriots fan, I suppose you would talk about the losing, since they've won their past 18 regular season games.

The Raiders have lost 62 of their last 82 games. The winning percentage is 24%. This covers the past 5+ seasons. This isn't 1 or 2 bad season. When you say that you have been satisfied with the product are you implying this record of futility is acceptable to you? Winning 5 or less games is "ok"? How many seasons of double digit losses will it take you to understand the magnitude and patterns of ineptitude? Have your standards dropped to the level of Cardinal and Lion fans?

There are many on this site who are unhappy with this futility. Why? Because the dysfuction of the organization is one of the key reasons why we have been stuck in quicksand. Poor hiring decisions, unprudent use of the available cap dollars, instability in the coaching ranks.

For this team to dig itself out of the mud, we desperately need stability at HC and a GM who would act as a bridge between the HC and owner.

Self loathing? Far from it. Dissatisfied customers? Absolutely.

The vast majority of dissatisfied customers are making difficult decisions about how much time, energy, and money they want to invest in this product. Why do so many of these dissatisfied customers keep on supporting the Raiders? I would suspect it is a genuine and sincere devotion to the team they have loved for many years.

Which makes more sense to you ...

A fan who voices his heartfelt disappointment or a fan who turns a blind eye to the most consecutive seasons with 11 losses or more? Further, is the fan who voices his disappointment any less supportive of the Raiders then the ones who are satisfied with the product? Far from it. It is a sharp contrast between reality and delusional thinking.

"I don't worry too much about things I have no control over. If it makes you feel better to pound your fists on the floor every day blaming Al, knock yourselves out. Doesn't mean I have to do it too."

Allow me to retort.I really don’t care because yelling, bitching, crying, arguing, and all the above would not change the course of this franchise because you can’t blame Al (who owns and controls all aspects of organization) for its utter dysfunction. It’s not the end of the world?

Allow me to reflect….The very fact that you are not upset puzzles those of us that are and have a right to be upset. You get upset and want answers when losses are more prevalent than winning games. When there is a constant disparage of garbage day in and day out on the field. When the Owner who is so beloved by some Raider fans has acknowledge that losing has never been the norm and nor should it be. Where an owner has freely admitted that those mistakes, however painful they may have been to him, were more painful to the fans who spend millions on ticket sales and merchandize because they love the Raiders. Hence, Lane Kiffin appeared. We are upset because watching a storied franchise who’s set the precedence for so many other teams over the years; we shall not lay down for no one. We shall stand and fight with players from all over the NFL whom have been outcast and left with no home, to prove that “Commitment to Excellence” is not just some catch phrase barrowed from the loins Shakespeare.

Commitment to Excellence was an oath to those of us who are more than just loyal fans. It was a responsibility that a football organization would no doubt contribute to the game of football and shows the world that football is much more than a team trying to score on the opposing team. It’s a way of life. It’s a commitment to those of us who have families, friends and work that rely on us to provide our utmost to them. When the owner has undoubting giving up on that oath to his team and the fans and seeks only quick fixes; which have led to 5 plus years of loses. Then yes, you are left with fans demanding answers for what he has deemed acceptable. But the rotating door on HC’s, well is not entirely his fault. He gave them everything they needed and they continued to lose? Please.

So we have a right to demand answers and be shown some level of respect.

Then I say we should keep pounding our fists until they bleed. Why, you ask? Because we deserve better than what we’ve been given and we have a right to demand answers for the failure such as these past 5 years from the owner. We are committed to one thing: The Raiders.

>>>>When you say that you have been satisfied with the product are you implying this record of futility is acceptable to you? >>>>

Apparently I am not making myself clear. I meant I have been ENTERTAINED by all but some of the games of the last few years. There have been a few blowouts... and that isn't much fun to watch, but for the most part the Raiders have been in most of the games. Sure winning is more fun than losing, but its not the only thing for me. I am just a fan. This isn't my job. My job isn't to win football games. As a fan, all I do is watch and hope for the best.

One of the reasons it may seem like I'm belaboring the negatives is that it's hard for me to not respond to repeated takes that are dropped on me, such as:

-This is all a media fueled situation, despite the fact that Kiffin, the players and front office executives all going on the record alluding to problems.

-Al Davis is less responsible than others for the direction of the organization.

-Things really haven't been that bad with the Raiders, despite the fact that we've tied the NFL record for consecutive years of futility, a distinction we now share with the Bucs.

These are all takes that have been repeated here, in so many words, as anyone can see. I will try to exercise more self restraint when it comes to responding to them, and explore other subjects instead.

That said, luckily the NFL rewards suckage through the draft, and thus unless you screw up every year in drafting, there is always light at the end of the tunnel. I see the light and look at that instead of looking backwards and dwelling on that.

Gary, how are the worst defensive performance (and one of the worst overall performances) I've ever seen in Oakland, coupled with a coaching controversy confirmed by the coach, players and front office execs, all within the the past three weeks--how are these off limits as the "past?"

I wrote about the Denver game, I wrote enthusiastically about the Chiefs game, and I addressed the coaching saga, which are the three biggest stories of this season so far. What do you want me to write about, Bigfoot? Pop tarts? Toy airplanes?

I get your point about the owner, coaches, and players being responsible for the downturn.

However did it ever cross your mind that it was the owner who picked the coaches and players?

Further, did you ever think that the circus like, drama filled environment in Alameda has a detrimental impact on the performance of the coaches and players?

Draft selections, free agent acquisitions, prudent use of cap dollars, coaching stability, support for your head coach ... how big of an impact do these aspects play in the success and welfare of the team? Who is directly responsible for these areas?

In the past 5 years there have been hit & misses on draft selections and free agent acquisitions. There has been poor choices for head coaches (Callahan, Turner, Shell). There has been imprudent use of cap space (Kelly, Walker, Hall). And above all, there has been an unstable, circus like, demoralizing work environment.

Finally, I understand your point about "it is only entertainment not a job" in reference to following the Raiders. To each his own.

Along those lines, it the equivalent of seeing a good, captivating movie and a movie that is a dud. Which "entertains" you more? The better the product the more "entertained" the customer will be.

Bottom Line: I want the Raiders to significantly improve the product so I have more smiles than frowns at the completion of a game.

Bama7I've said it before and I'll say it again... with Blanda, H and Gary, they'd rather lose WITH Al than win without him. Think about it. To them the Raiders ARE AL and only Al. They know Al is not good anymore and they can't stand it so they're in denial about it, running around calling sane fans IAAF'ers. I suppose I admire the loyalty but it's like dealing with zombies. You guys are like some weird male versions of the Stepford Wives. I want the S&B to start dominating again, and sadly, the only thing that is repeatedly preventing us from climbing out of the hole we've been in, is Al. It's killing my interest in my favorite team.

Gary: I sincerely appreciate what Al has done in the past. Without him we wouldn't have the rich history that the Raiders have given all of us.

Nothing would please me more than for Al Davis to be successful again. However, I hope you realize that when the Raiders went to the SB this decaade that Bruce Allen was GM. What is the missing component over the past 5+ years? No GM to aid Davis.

6 years later after 5 consecutive seasons of double digit losses, do you think Al could use a little help? Would a GM make sense to you? I'm not disparging Davis because he is 79 years old but clearly he needs the help that a savvy GM could provide. To deny this simple move is putting your head in the sand and wishing things get better.

Look back at all the times the Raiders have been successful in the past 48 years and you will notice that each and every time we had a capable GM helping the owner out.

The big elephant that every sees in the room but some Raider fans deny is that 31 teams have GMs. The Raiders are the only team without a GM. The reason a GM is so important is that the role serves many purposes critical to a team's long term success. Specifially, the GM is a facilitator, moderator, advisor, and conduit between the owner and coaching staff, between the coaches input for certain players being acquired in the draft and free agency and the owner.

To answer your question: 11 other owners have brought their team to the SB this decade;

Bama7KFC just didn't have it. Al's fault for bringing him in.My guress is Al wants to fire Kiff after the road game so his new coach doesn't have to take that loss (Buffalo). Here's hoping Kiff rallys the boys to a victory today and staves off the firing.

You have a distorted and delusional view of the Raiders when you say we are better off than 21 other teams in the NFL this decade. To deny 5+ consecutive seasons of 11 or more losses is foolish. We are talking about this decade, right? 5 head coaches the past 8 years is not the earkmarks of a team who has had an exceptional decade in performance. I enjoy our debates but frankly, you pick and choose certain points without weighing the big picture. You also always fail to address or answer any of my questions.

For the last time, please answer the following questions:

(1) Which makes more sense to you... A fan who voices his heartfelt disappointment or a fan who turns a blind eye to the most consecutive seasons with 11 losses or more?

(2) Is the fan who voices his disappointment any less supportive of the Raiders then the ones who are satisfied with the product?

(3) Do you think that the circus like, drama filled environment in Alameda has a detrimental impact on the performance of the coaches and players?

(4) Do you think Al could use a little help by hiring a GM?

(5) Do you honestly think that the Raiders have had a better decade than other NFL teams for the simple fact that they went to 1 SB? (in the past 82 games our winning percentage is 24%; we have finished in last place in our division the past 5 years ... this Gary, is what is called a "trend")

What really concerns me is that we had 3 very good years at the beginning of this decade followed up by 5 REALLY BAD years. Why? Look at the differences ... the 3 years of success can be partly attributed to coaching stability (Gruden 4 year run) and a savvy GM (Bruce Allen). The 5 years of putrid results can be partly attributed to a coaching carousel (Callahan, Turner, Shell, Kiffin, and soon to be Ryan) plus no GM (I don't count Lombardi for obvious reasons).

"I didn't say that. I said he dwells on the PAST. He brings up the losing of the last 5 years as evidence with nearly every argument he makes."

A bit hypocritical Gary. You are the one who points to an event that took place over 5 years ago (SB vs. Bucs).

The reason that many of us are harping on the past 5 seasons is that it is a trend that desperately needs to be corrected.

Assuming we no longer talk about the past and only concentrate on this year ... we currently have a Head Coach who is a dead man walking, a DC who likely will be PROMOTED (too funny for words), an owner who authorized or knew about the PR Dept. distributing an ESPN article to the Bay Area press which paints an unflattering picture of Kiffin.

Remember, not dwelling on the past is a double edge sword. This means you can't talk about any of our rich history and past accomplishments. In essence, you are strictly endorsing a "what have your done for me lately" proclamation.

Mr. Kiffin is not the problem, I'd take him over Nolan any day! He is a coach who stands by his word, big al (MR.) davis is a meddling IDJEOT who will take your beloved fizzlers to the bottom of the stank sea! Great game Kif, you did what you could with a team that lacks defense and offense, it's a wonder you got the production out of them that you did! (most of the production was thanks to the Bills mistakes and ref's bad calls favoring the fizzlers!) 1-15 is doable, lets try real hard fizzlers! You can do it! just keep keep losing baby, define the "notion"