Proof if there's GOD?

Nope. No proof here from me to show you or for you to listen to. Damn it! If only I had a camera or tape recorder with me when I had my epiphany. Just
goes to show you, one must be prepared for everything all the time.

hey beastamerica great post, I don't know if it was your intention to make a bunch of religious cooks look rediculous but it's seemed to have payed
off. I always love the answers you get when you ask this sort of question, your "told" and never quite given an option; to believe in God blindly
and have faith. That statement right there is enough to get me to question the matter, that and the fact that every religion; as man made it religion:
are all highly hypocritical: one and only principle that i'll name and is found in about every book; though shalt not kill, from crusades to car
bombings I don't quite think anyone is listening to that. Well my take on religion is simple, all religions are wrong, made by man so therefor
faulable on the premiss that man is imperfect. That doesn't necessarilly mean that I don't believe in an after life cause I do, only because the
laws of science have not yet found a nothing behind our universe edge. I do believe in the theory constant in science now a days that states that we
have multiple universes, so I think energy; since it cannot be created nor destroyed, has a free roam in this sphere of intergalactic and static
electricity. Maybe if your like me you can rejoice in Ensteins theory and possible find a little nook where you can be comfortable in knowing that
not ever part of your soul can die. Hopefully i've stated something relivant thanks for anyone and everyones time.

nope, the proof doesn't exist.
if there was proof it would be from the people that claim prayer has cured (insert random terminal disease here), yet can never seem to back up their
claims.

though that still wouldn't prove the existence of a particular deity, just the supernatural...

some would say that the specific prayers to a specific deity would prove that said specific deity existed, but there's the possibility that it's
something else or a another deity that doesn't mind not being acknowledged doing the dirty work...

I am not a very religous person but still, I think we are looking too hard for god, As I said I am not a religous person and not going to "Quote"
texts but it is said that we are made in the image of our lord. Are we looking needlessly for something else, This thread has really got me
thinking.

Are all the answers right infront of us but we helplessly look past them? Evolution does not answer the question for me, If it is so and we did evolve
from monkeys why did they stop evolving? Why do they still walk our planet to this day? Why has the missing link not been found? The teory of
evolution raises as many questions as the theory of god does.

If we were made in the image of god then the people we see everyday are god, But the haze that is infront of us doesnt let us see that as we seek more
proof. If god did make us he made us with free will which leaves no gap for divine intervention. Considering every action has a reaction nearly
everything will sprout from free will.

Maybe the story of adam and eve are is just that, A story. But if it was just made up the person who made it up was on the right wave length, Free
will led to the eating of the forbidden fruit that cursed mankind with pain and suffering. Every decision we make, makes a differnce, Leads us a bit
further down a differnt path in our lives. I bet there are many people here if not all who think to themselve, I wish I had not have said that or I
wish I had not have done that. But that is the choice you made from your own free will and whatever happened afterwards why would god get involved?
Surely that would be messing with your own free will.

So maybe god does exist, Maybe he doesnt. Maybe he created us in his image, gave us the tools to do whatever we want (our brains), Gave us free will
then sat back and watched his creation grow, Knowing he cannot diectly get involved but getting messengers to try and guide us and point us in the
right right direction. Maybe there is alien life, Just another of gods settlement another life form he created to see what path that civilisation will
take.

So what I am trying to say is start looking a little closer to home for god, When things happen think to yourself could something different have
happened? If I had done something differently would that something else have happened? We first need to answer the smaller questions in life before we
try looking to higher places for the answers, Because if there is a god he will not guide you himself. Why? because it is up to your own free will to
believe or not.

Let me just finish by letting you know I am not a educated person by no means ( as you may tell by my grammer, But I do try my best) I make my "bread
with my hands. I have never read the bile or any other texts, So if there are any major mistakes in my point then this is due to my own ignorance.
Nearly everything I have writen here I have taken from my own thoughts whilst typing, So please dont use it in either direction to make your own
decisions in life then blame me

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
nope, the proof doesn't exist.
if there was proof it would be from the people that claim prayer has cured (insert random terminal disease here), yet can never seem to back up their
claims.
though that still wouldn't prove the existence of a particular deity, just the supernatural...

You just said what proof you require, but, that you WOULDN'T believe it!
COME ON!
Jesus healed me from an almost 10 year, three-pack-a-day, smoking habit and a 5 year speed addiction! Not to mention the more mundane things, like
Hiatal hernia and headaches.
I have actually prayed over someone with a burned hand and she quit hurting!
I ONLY did that because of Jesus.
I can't count the times my children were sick and I didn't have medicine for a fever and Jesus took their sickness when I prayed WITH faith.

I recommend you sitting across from a chimp and look into his eyes, you'll see humanity in them I guarantee it. All species have evolved over the
years, so why not us humans. At least science offers some sort of evidence for what it claims, religious institutions offer nothing but "Because we
believe you should also." It comes down to whether you a FAITH that what you're being told is BULLSH*T or not. Choice is yours.

You're completely right. Although there is sufficient knowledge that evolution is wrong and Creation is right, you have to have faith to at least
choose a God.

How I chose my religion is by looking at the people around me. My parents are Catholic while I am a Evangelical Christian. Sure, the Catholicism
religion is the biggest but so is Islam. Then you have to look at the CONTENT of the religion to SEE what they actually teach.

Sometimes people are to blind (metaphorically) too see the plain honest truth!

I disagree, there is a REASON why there is the religions there are on the TERRE (anybody parle Francais?)

And lastly Grey; your right! If you were a believer in my God you would find that is exactly what He teaches and if do decide to follow Us, then
you're life would be full of wisdom, knowledge, and would less painful because God has explained everything already; knowing that we would commit the
same mistake and saving us the hassles. That's not to say we aren't going to have difficulties!

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Creationism does not disprove evolution.

Creationism and Evolution are the same thing.
Unfortunately most of the people espousing creationism are too wrapped up in dogma to see that it's the same thing.

Creationism is the explanation of how it was done.
Evolution is the explanation through forensic research.

In the end you will see that evolution will prove the existence of god. Well at least that's my take on things. And that proof will be a long time in
comming.

I have to run but I'm gonna post later today a bit more about creationism and why I think they are both right and wrong at the same time.

i assume that you believe that gravity/magnetism/atomic radiation/electromagnetic radiation/electric current/inertia/atoms/wind/black holes/many
gases/laws of thermodynamics/etc.------exist ?-----but they are invisible

all we see is their effects----not them---in like manner G-D chooses to remain invisible for now.

G-D has had enough of being around the lawless ones-----so They are giving us what we want----the majority of humans want G-D to stay out of their
buisness.

for those that seek after G-D by prayer and keeping Their laws there is help given thru angels and G-D's Holy spirit but-----

no worldwide intervention of G-D's return and help is prophesied until the wars we fight get to the point of annihilating all life on earth.

I've said in many threads that I didn't believe and in fact, quite hated God many times in my life, and I've been through the mill of religions,
but for some reason, various things keep bringing me back to Christianity like there were little signs that I failed to notice.

Now, I can't share any of these things in video or picture form, and to be honest, many of them may seem VERY trivial to some, particularly those who
have hardened their hearts and minds to the belief in God, and I'm perefectly fine with that - I'm of the opinion that God will FIND YOU, not the
other way around, and he doesn't give up easily, he sort of leaves you post-it notes for the soul if you will that are sometimes rather vague,
sometimes rather personal, but ALL of them are to prove he exists if you can find them and that you take them at face value.

I think it has to do with free will, and thats why I don't try and convert, I only offer people advice based on my life and experiences, I won't
start spouting scripture or take you to a church (because I don't believe in churches either but thats not the point). If you believe, you will
believe regardless, and while your faith my at times be very tested, He knows ultimately whether you are on His side or not and so maybe some people
don't ever get the chance more than once to hear the message, but I'm guessing, I doubt He would be that cruel (I DON'T believe in the view of Hell
as prescribed by some, I belive it should be translated grave not insane fundamentalist/overbearing church doctrine to make you behave lake of napalm
that is only intended for Ha'Satan and his legion more than the common man).

So, the little signs are what I think he does to make you think "Pfft, thats just a coincidence" you either believe them or not, as its called
'faith' not 'ultimate fact'. For example, I became rather ill and that made me seriously hate God (I have never been well, I was given up on by
doctors when I was born since they rated my chances so slim, but I'm still here) since I lost my job, I felt a total faliure, etc and I hated not
contributing, having to rely on others, I like independance and self-sufficiency.

However, I met the woman that I will I hope one day marry and the only woman I can honestly say I will ever love truly because of the circumstances I
was in, so I actually saw the good that came out of the situation rather than dwell on the bad. Her name? 'God's Gift' - coincidence, probably,
but to me it made me feel that strange feeling, that total love that some people talk about when they mention God and I knew then it was intended.
Even coincidences can be beneficial.

There've been plenty more incidents like that trough my life that could be put down to probably nothing, but they have always turned me back to Him
and that I can't ignore - that while I've never seen any angels personally, there have been plenty of times when I've felt so low I could have
given up, but something's come along to make me change my mind and has changed it so much that I can't even remotely consider giving up anymore no
matter how bad my illness gets or how I feel down in life.

The true miracles are those that noone sees but you - the people who love their kids, the people who stay married for 90 years and never loose
interest, the simple things that surround us - to some that is proof, to others they are just interesting or sometimes even 'uncool' and 'soppy
love crap'.

Belief works both ways unfortunately, and if he doesn't believe in you, how can you believe in Him.

Originally posted by beastamerica
after reading the stickies about the conspiracy qualification, i decided on posting here because religion might be a conspiracy by itself (sorry
moderators

)

my question for everyone is: do you have any proof in media (pics, vids) that GOD exists? please post it here or link me...

help! my faith is wavering...

Examine Israel, who, in the days that God lead them out of the bondage of Egypt through the parting of the Red Sea, dividing the water before their
very eyes, so they could pass on dry ground, escaping Pharaoh, to then witness God covering Pharaoh and his armies in the closing of the Red Sea, to
later be lead through the desert by a pillar of cloud in the day, providing shade and a pillar of fire by night to provide light, and before their
very eyes witness bread falling from heaven, supplied by God for their nourishment: even with all this EVIDENCE they had of God, these are the same
people who made a Golden Calf to worship and because of their unbelief, they continually grumbled and complained while in the desert, the whole time
God showing himself to them.

I ask you, if these people had the greatest proof that God was real and present, yet exhibited unbelief, what makes you think that some proof of God
in the form of video and pictures is going to prove anything to you? I wager if someone did provide such proof, you would quickly attempt to debunk it
through unbelief, correct?

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Alright, here's my thoughts on this:
It has been determined that if the Earth was any closer to the sun or to the moon then it could not sustain the life that it does. The gases in our
air are all independently poisonous for us to breathe, yet they are perfectly mixed every second of every day for us to breathe. If our bodies just
stop breathing then we die. Yet everything in our world is held in perfect check every day and we life the lives that we do. Waaaayyyyyy too many
coincidences for my taste. Too many coincidences that we as humans just decided one day to grow lungs, grow legs and arms and walk out of the water
and stand upright and invent Starbucks and sit around and drink coffee. Something has to be behind all of it as far as I'm concerned. That's just
too many chance occurances. If Christians are wrong about God and Jesus, then we have lost nothing. If Christians are right, we've gained eternity.
It's not a gamble I'm willing to take.

Well actually, because there is coincidence does not imply a planned creation process. Earth just happened to be the lucky planet not too far, not too
close to the sun. It is only because you are alive that you can reflect on this, and you are alive because of this. If it were Saturn instead of Earth
that had the conditions that sustained life, there would be life on it wondering the same thing, thinking themselves special. Tell me why your
Christian god would care at all about what goes on in a tiny blue speck of stardust on the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy when there's a whole universe
to look after? Earth was lucky to have life, but I'm pretty positive that at this same moment that we are existing, there exists at least one other
place in this universe where other lifeforms exist because the conditions allow it. I also believe that life adapts to the environment rather than the
other way around.

But don't get me wrong, I do believe in a higher power, a higher order of things. I don't think of "god" as the proverbial old man in the sky but
rather the beyond-physical concepts that exists outside of our world, namely energy, consciousness, infinity, etc. We also can't prove any of these
things exist. For example, energy is assumed to exist because things somehow move and it works in equations. Ancient concepts of god were usually
encoded with metaphysical concepts and esoteric knowledge, such as Duality, the three-fold nature of existence (the trinity), and so on. However,
Christianity is merely a desecrated and monopolized version of a once great cult (gnosticism) and is devoid of most of its original teachings. It
appeals to emotions and feelings and promotes irrational groupthink. I suggest for those of you who believe in a higher power (like I do) to go out
and figure it out for yourselves rather than having an organization tell you what to believe.

By the way, you are right that if we stop breathing then we would die. Therefore, god must exist right? If p then q therefore w? Sounds like a pretty
sound argument to me.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
If we evolved over millions of year from monkeys like you believe then where are the the in between species? There are none. Evolutionists have
desperately searched for the "missing link" and it's still missing. Gradual evolution would have left lots of evidence. Instead heres a hug jump
in the fossil record. You've been lied too. You're not a chimp.

These are fragments of Australopithecus anamensis, a common ancestor (missing link) of chimpanzee and human. Anthropologists are continually
searching for more evidence to the fossill record of our planet, that does not mean they are trying to prove evolution is real, but that they are
sincerely curious about our history.

You're completely right. Although there is sufficient knowledge that evolution is wrong and Creation is right, you have to have faith to at least
choose a God.

I feel sorry for anyone who just chooses a god to believe in. Figure it out for yourself.

By the way, evolution doesn't mean your grandfather was a monkey, or that you once were a monkey. It may seem that way if you get your notions of
evolution not from your own logical reasoning processes that, lets just say, god endowed you with, but rather Christian evangelists and the like. It
just means that humans and apes have a common ancestor, which is why we share so much similar dna with chimps. Why do you need proof for this
"missing link"? Wait a minute, this argument sounds similar to something we are arguing in this very thread about. Why can't evolutionists have
faith too? And who's to say a giant horny adolescent did not appear in the sky and skeet out all of life as we know it?

We are really just a real smart, but also real weak variety of ape that think we are better than all the other animals somehow. Sure we are smarter,
but we are lacking in almost everything else.

Nothing has emerged from this recent discovery that is inconsistent with the notion that this is just one more member of the group of extinct ape-like
primates known as australopithecines, and that it is possibly even the same species as the famous ‘Lucy’. As has been demonstrated by top-level
evolutionist anatomist Dr Charles Oxnard,20 the evidence has always strongly supported the idea that the australopithecines were not on any line
leading to humans, even for those who accept this possibility. See ‘Lucy’ isn’t the ‘Missing Link’!

Tel Aviv University anthropologists say they have disproven the theory that “Lucy” - the world-famous 3.2-million-year-old Australopithecus
afarensis skeleton found in Ethiopia 33 years ago - is the last ancestor common to humans and another branch of the great apes family known as the
“Robust hominids.”

The specific structure found in Lucy also appears in a species called Australopithecus robustus. Prof. Yoel Rak and colleagues at the Sackler
School of Medicine’s department of anatomy and anthropology wrote, “The presence of the morphology in both the latter and Australopithecus
afarensis and its absence in modern humans cast doubt on the role of [Lucy] as a common ancestor.”

The robust hominids were discovered in southern Africa 69 years ago and are believed to have lived between 2 million and 1.2 million years ago.
Their jaws and jaw muscles were adapted to the dry environment in which they lived.

Rak and colleagues studied 146 mature primate bone specimens, including those from modern humans, gorillas, chimpanzees and orangutans and found
that the “ramus element” of the mandible connecting the lower jaw to the skull is like that of the robust forms, therefore eliminating the
possibility that Lucy and her kind are Man’s direct ancestors. They should therefore, the Israeli researchers said, “be placed as the beginning of
the branch that evolved in parallel to ours.”

Their research has just been published in the on-line edition of PNAS, the Proceedings of the [US] National Academy of Sciences.

Lucy, which means “you are wonderful” in Amharic, was discovered (40 percent of its skeleton) by the International Afar Research Expedition in
Ethiopia’s Awash Valley. Fitting the bones together, they said it was an upright walking hominid (Homo sapiens, which comprises modern Man and
extinct manlike species). They later found its jaws and additional bones.

Further analysis led the Afar researchers to believe it was of a female, and the skeleton listed as AL 288-1 was nicknamed Lucy because the
Beatles’ song “Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds” was often played at the camp.

The specimen was only 1.1 meters tall, estimated to weigh 29 kilograms and look somewhat like a common chimpanzee. Although it had a small brain,
the pelvis and leg bones were almost identical in function with those of modern humans, proving that these hominids had walked erect.

Although fossils closer to chimpanzees have been found since then, Lucy - which is housed in the national museum in Addis Ababa - is prized by
anthropologists who study Man’s origin.

Rak and his colleagues also wrote that the structure of Lucy’s mandibular ramus closely matches that of gorillas, which was “unexpected”
because chimpanzees are the closest living relatives of humans, and not gorillas.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Alright, here's my thoughts on this:
It has been determined that if the Earth was any closer to the sun or to the moon then it could not sustain the life that it does. The gases in our
air are all independently poisonous for us to breathe, yet they are perfectly mixed every second of every day for us to breathe. If our bodies just
stop breathing then we die. Yet everything in our world is held in perfect check every day and we life the lives that we do. Waaaayyyyyy too many
coincidences for my taste. Too many coincidences that we as humans just decided one day to grow lungs, grow legs and arms and walk out of the water
and stand upright and invent Starbucks and sit around and drink coffee. Something has to be behind all of it as far as I'm concerned. That's just
too many chance occurances. If Christians are wrong about God and Jesus, then we have lost nothing. If Christians are right, we've gained eternity.
It's not a gamble I'm willing to take.

Surely you're not using Pascals Wager as a reason to believe? If your god is "all knowing" don't you think he'd realize your faith is a lie?
Something tells me he wouldn't be too happy about that.

Guess that's why the divorce rate is higher among believers, because believers are always much happier. I know I would be thinking that some "god"
was always watching what I was doing waiting to banish me to hell for the smallest things.

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