Forum - Thread

PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

Sergini, that's exactly what I'm saying. In other words, when raining, that 40% brake feel happens on the first brake, and after driving on the highway for 10 minutes without braking, until they warm up again.

Ron, there is not any physical damage to the brake system. Where do you think there is a problem, that a photo would tell. I don't want to take the wheel off if I don't have to, and which wheel would be best.

Hey Tony, I like the picture of your car. I would also like to take a picture of your car - just the brakes though. Can you give me directions to get to your house.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

jboykoYou simply state the same thing over and over again, that PCCB doesn't work in the rain. Do you have a personal experience to share? You can't make an assertion without cause. It's like saying m3 motors blow up without telling the story of how your m3 motor blew up (or a friend's motor or citing technical data). Do you think something is wrong with your system? Many people on the board have reported no problems and RC uses his PCCB in the snow.

I'm still not a fan of PCCB because I still question its track durability and I think brakes are a consumable and so need to cost much less so that a track season doesn't break the bank. However, your posts about the rain make no sense.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

Ok Yargk,

Was the dark of the moon, on the sixth of June In a Kenworth, pullin' logs Cabover Pete with a reefer on And a Jimmy haulin' hogs

I drive about 4 miles from my office to the Turnpike, without applying the brakes until I reach the toll plaza. I apply the brakes, and they feel 40%, while requiring more pedal pressure, and longer slowing time. Then, after about 10 minutes of highway driving without braking, the brakes have the same diminished performance, when applying them again. I have also experienced this once after washing the car. The reduced performance is only temporary, in the rain (not a drizzle), and is more prevalent than any traditional pad and rotor systems that I have had in the past. The feeling reminds me of early 90's ABS air tanks that are low in pressure, and also driving slow through a few inches of flooded streets. All temporary, but real.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

Quote:jboyko said:The reduced performance is only temporary, in the rain (not a drizzle)

Maybe I'm getting too old to get excited, but this seems like a plausible description of nearly every car (or truck) I've driven in the past 40 years. What matters is the severity of behavior and the threshold of wetness with which it can be triggered.

jb,

Your communication technique tends toward the explosive. Writ large in the sky.

The amount of "trouble" we perceive in your predicament is very dependant on our personal calibration of your (possibly) prickly sensitivities. I can't tell if your 997 needs an exorcist, or whether you need some Paxil.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

Quote:W8MM said:Maybe I'm getting too old to get excited, but this seems like a plausible description of nearly every car (or truck) I've driven in the past 40 years. What matters is the severity of behavior and the threshold of wetness with which it can be triggered.

jb,

Your communication technique tends toward the explosive. Writ large in the sky.

The amount of "trouble" we perceive in your predicament is very dependant on our personal calibration of your (possibly) prickly sensitivities. I can't tell if your 997 needs an exorcist, or whether you need some Paxil.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

Quote:jboyko said:Sergini, that's exactly what I'm saying. In other words, when raining, that 40% brake feel happens on the first brake, and after driving on the highway for 10 minutes without braking, until they warm up again.

Ron, there is not any physical damage to the brake system. Where do you think there is a problem, that a photo would tell. I don't want to take the wheel off if I don't have to, and which wheel would be best.

Hey Tony, I like the picture of your car. I would also like to take a picture of your car - just the brakes though. Can you give me directions to get to your house.

jb

LOL! You crack me up, jb. At least you have a sense of humor. What day would you come down to southern Maryland to photograph my standard brakes? I'll send you directions. Not a problem.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

I have a 997S with PCCB's. There is a problem. After driving Porsche steel brakes for many years, the first time I drove in the rain (and other times since), I was almost startled how little initial stopping power I had. Problem clears up quickly, but if you're cruising down a rainy highway for a while, your initial braking power is, IMO, reduced, and not what you were expecting.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

Quote:jcnesq said:I have a 997S with PCCB's. There is a problem. After driving Porsche steel brakes for many years, the first time I drove in the rain (and other times since), I was almost startled how little initial stopping power I had. Problem clears up quickly, but if you're cruising down a rainy highway for a while, your initial braking power is, IMO, reduced, and not what you were expecting.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

The pccb don't suffer from fade which is the most dangerous things to happen when trying to stop from high speeds, the only other things which are just as bad are if the master cylinder or brake pipe fails.

And in wet weather you should be driving with caution, having super sharp brakes in the wet will more than likely kick the abs in esspecially if their is grease and diesel on the roads, just try any uk town ring road it's like driving on ice......

Despite driving at least 80,000 miles since passing my test in 1999 most in wet weather i've not come across a time when my brakes have seriously been affected by water, thats non pccb brakes, just plenty of abs action deep grumbling noises.

Just jump in any mk1 golf gti and press the brake pedal, and you will find that you get a very hard feeling as if the pedal is connected by a steel bar directly to drum brakes, thats how bad they feel, and you'le get more response from a microsoft blue screen error

You think one of the best brake systems are bad try the rest and you'le never fault them again...

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

What an old thread to reply to. PCCB now and 2005 I don't think are even the same generation.

I would however agree with the title of this thread ON ONE ASPECT of the current generation. PCCB are dangerous in the extreme wet on motorways/highways when you haven't used them in for a few minutes. Water builds up and if you need to use them to brake hard all of sudden then you get almost nothing.

You need to be aware of this when driving along and deliberately squeeze out the water by braking a little every minute or so.

Saying all of the above, I would expect that steel brakes would have a similar problem in extreme wet.

I love my PCCB - the very best option you can get from the factory in my opinion.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

If there were to be a difference I guess driving situations like the above would be the issue.

I have compared PCCB and cast iron disk brakes in unofficial carwash and wet street conditions and came to the conclusion that this is a non-issue.

I make a habit of applying the brakes lightly immediately after a carwash to wipe the friction surfaces, and I keep more distance to the car ahead in wet conditions because my tires don't grip as well as on dry tarmac, never mind any possible short-term degradation (hundredths of a second?) in brake performance.This applies regardless of brake rotor material.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

I had significant brake degradation at least one time with my PCCB's. I don't remember if it was as result of a car wash or after a rain. It was pretty nerve wracking when you apply the brakes and the car doesn't want to stop like you expect it. But it's been years since I've had a problem. The best advice is to make sure you test the brakes when there's a chance that the brakes are wet. I don't even know if PCCB's had anything to do with it, or could it have happened with the steel rotors. Anyways, in the future, I won't hesitate to get PCCB's because they are still the best.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

I've had the same situation happen to me after washing the car and driving in heavy rain. But I have standard "Big Red" steel rotors.

You would have to do a parallel test in a controlled environment to see if PCCB's were any different. If PCCB's were worse I'm sure in litigation happy America there would be stickers and warning signs and things to sign all over the car.

You can only conclude from limited evidence that the braking performance was probably unexpected, not that it was worse than steel rotors.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

" PCCB are dangerous in the extreme wet on motorways/highways when you haven't used them in for a few minutes." - Unless Alex is goofing on a 4 year old thread, the issue in the rain, which he describes with these brakes, does exist.

Maybe Steel Reds have a similar issue in the rain, maybe they don't, I just said that the vehicles with steel rotors that I have owned, did not.

If you have PCCB's, and you drove on the highway in a strong rain, you know this brake "fade" feel. But I know that it has not happened to Alan --

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

Le Chef:

I've had the same situation happen to me after washing the car and driving in heavy rain. But I have standard "Big Red" steel rotors.

You would have to do a parallel test in a controlled environment to see if PCCB's were any different. If PCCB's were worse I'm sure in litigation happy America there would be stickers and warning signs and things to sign all over the car.

You can only conclude from limited evidence that the braking performance was probably unexpected, not that it was worse than steel rotors.

Without wanting to seem a sycophant , I think that your statement "that the braking performance was probably unexpected" is an astute observation.

I have noticed when braking with water-soaked rotors that I get the sensation that the car briefly speeds up slightly. Since Newton tells me that this is impossible if I don't put my foot on the throttle as well as the brake ("conservation of energy" and all that good stuff), I have concluded that this sensation results from the fact that I'm psyched up for a deceleration of the car which does not materialize until a few hundredths of a second later. I think that the adrenaline rush resulting from this "unexpected" reaction makes the time lag seem much longer than it really is.

I should mention that I initially made these observations before I had ever heard of ceramic brakes. After reading other drivers' comments on the "wet road" performance of ceramic brakes, I used the opportunity when driving borrowed cars with ceramic brakes to do unscientific, non-instrumented "tests" to see if the problem was especially acute. My conclusion was that the sensation was no different than I remembered it from cars equipped with cast-iron rotors.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

jboyko:

" PCCB are dangerous in the extreme wet on motorways/highways when you haven't used them in for a few minutes." - Unless Alex is goofing on a 4 year old thread, the issue in the rain, which he describes with these brakes, does exist.

Maybe Steel Reds have a similar issue in the rain, maybe they don't, I just said that the vehicles with steel rotors that I have owned, did not.

If you have PCCB's, and you drove on the highway in a strong rain, you know this brake "fade" feel. But I know that it has not happened to Alan --

Seems it never rains in Southern California.

jb

It's pouring today in Socal. I noticed reduced brake performance this morning when I drove my son to school in the rain. Almost feels like slight loss of hydraulics when you apply the brakes. But I'm careful and test the brakes every once in a while when there's no traffic behind me.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

Re: PCCB IS DANGEROUS IN THE RAIN.

Dammmmmn, should I get another P - - I was sooo pissed with the "New Car Service", that I couldn't take the chance, that the later service years, would be reasonable. My launch car was close to being sorted, but P pushed me into settlement -- It would have been more reasonable, if the "P" lawyers hadn't been involved. --- Oh, and PCCB is the Jam 99.3% of the time !!!