Another Republican Says Something Really, Really Dumb About Rape

Another day, another Republican making an ill-advised comment about rape. Celeste Greig, the head of the largest GOP volunteer organization in California — Ronald Reagan once called the California Republican Assembly “the conscience of the Republican Party — told the Woodland, California Daily Democrat that rape almost never leads to pregnancies because the body is too traumatized.

“Granted, the percentage of pregnancies due to rape is small because it’s an act of violence, because the body is traumatized. I don’t know what percentage of pregnancies are due to the violence of rape. Because of the trauma the body goes through,” she told the newspaper before arriving at the state GOP’s spring convention in Sacramento.

Ironically, she got on the subject while criticizing Rep. Todd Akin, the former Missouri Senate candidate who infamously said women’s bodies have a way of shutting down pregnancies in the case of “legitimate rape.” “That was an insensitive remark,” Greig said. “I’m sure he regretted it. He should have come back and apologized.” Greig, however, went on to essentially reaffirm part of Akin’s logic.

One wonders if the fact that Greig is a woman will have any impact on where this story goes, but it’s worth noting, as has been done in the past, that the meme that rape rarely results in pregnancy simply isn’t true:

The study, “Are per-incident rape-pregnancy rates higher than per-incident consensual pregnancy rates?” was published in the journal Human Nature by Jonathan A. Gottschall and Tiffani A. Gottschall, two professors at St. Lawrence University in Canton, N.Y. They used data from the federally administered National Violence Against Women survey. There, they found a sample of 405 women between the ages of 12 and 45 who had experienced one incidence of rape that included intercourse.

Of those 405 women included in the sample, 6.4 percent — or 26 women — reported a pregnancy that year. A separate large-scale study showed that, for the general population of women that age, the per-incidence pregnancy rate for a single act of intercourse is 3.1 percent.

As to why rape victims would have a higher rate of pregnancy, the Gottschalls put forward a few theories. They look at previous research, which suggests that men are more attracted to women who are fertile and ovulating. In consensual sex, women can decline sex at a time where there might be a high likelihood of pregnancy. That’s not the case in rape.

“Rapists do not wait to be chosen, rapists choose,” they write. “As such, within the limits of opportunity, rapists would be able to target women bearing cues [of fertility].”

Beyond the statistics, though, one thought comes to mind. Why can’t Republicans just keep their mouths shut about rape?

About Doug MataconisDoug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May, 2010 and also writes at Below The Beltway.
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Beyond the statistics, though, one thought comes to mind. Why can’t Republicans just keep their mouths shut about rape?

Oh no. Not at all. If this is what they believe, they shouldn’t shut up. They should be loud and proud, they should be up front, out and open about what they believe. Let everyone know.

The question, really, isn’t why can’t they shut up about it, but why do they believe such horrible, misogynistic, and unscientific things in the first place?

And that’s a question we know the answer to: when you spend thirty years building a political movement by appealing to the worst instincts of the fearful, greedy, ignorant and abusive, you’re going to get a political party full of people who believe ignorant and abusive things.

One wonders if the fact that Greig is a woman will have any impact on where this story goes
I hope the Democrats push this to Sandra Fluke levels of outrage
Nothing will advance the Democrat’s War on Women Narrative faster than a bunch of men attacking a woman’s opinion on Rape.

As noted above: this is what they believe. This is the GOP. Their heads are stuffed full of nonsense and lies. Because they’re stupid. How many more times must this be explained? Stupid people believe stupid stuff and when they talk about it people point at them and say, “Damn, that’s stupid,” and yet we are mystified.

As an experiment, just try applying the phrase “Because they’re stupid” to everything you see a Republican saying or doing. I guarantee you it’ll be 80% accurate. The other 20% would be covered by, “Because they’re aszholes.”

@Argon: @Rafer Janders: @michael reynolds: As I’ve said before – The big problem with conservatives is that they believe their own Bull Shite. And as I’ve asked before – Where do Republicans find these people? And why?

There’s no reason to allow abortions when a woman gets raped if a woman can’t get pregnant when raped.

The psychological explanation is that they see themselves as good people who believe that all abortions should be banned – therefore cognitive biases will latch onto false ideas like “rape cannot cause pregnancy because the female body has a way of shutting that down because of the trauma” because then you are still a good person – abortion can then be safely banned without exception.

Those who are too self-aware to fall for the “rape cannot cause pregnancy because the female body has a way of shutting that down because of the trauma” then fall back on the “It’s a gift from God – a perfect little child was created because of the horrific act that befell those poor women” argument. This argument still allows you to ban all abortions without seeming to be a monster to yourself or others.

The overriding goal is to ban all abortion, and this type of hooey is the brain’s way of dealing with opponents who say “Well, what about in cases of rape and incest?” without feeling like or looking like an uncaring cad.

What a weird, dishonest thing to say. No, no one man has single-handedly pulled Republican thinking into these channels. It was always there. You can see it in Republican policies.

If you want, you can say that Akin made it clear to Republicans that they could say the vilest things about women, and not lose Republican votes, because people who vote Republican are fine with that stuff. There’s a reason, for instance, that your pal Bob McDonnell put no abortion exceptions in the Republican party platform. You have no regrets there, right?

This is beyond just “talking about rape”, this is repeating the exact same false claim that is verifiably untrue. At least say some other awful thing about rape and use the excuse “I thought THIS comment was okay”.

Beyond the statistics, though, one thought comes to mind. Why can’t Republicans just keep their mouths shut about rape?

To @michael reynolds’ point, the Republicans have a big problem: for at least the last thirty years — arguably corresponding to the rise of National Conservative Media and Social Cons being brought into the fold — much of the Republican party has started with belief and then sought out the “facts” to prove those beliefs. And once those facts were established, they were aggressively circulated among the faithful — often long after they were proven wrong.

So, in this case, the entire “shut it down” argument was put forward by pro-life doctor John Willke, and despite tons of evidence to the contrary, Willke and his supporters have yet to back down.

Obit’s of C. Everett Koop remind us that these sort of things date at least back to the Reagan administration. The (in)famous draft report on Abortion was commissioned because anti-abortion activists believed that there would be incontrovertible scientific proof that Abortions left life long mental/emotional trauma scars on the mother. Koop, to his credit, despite being deeply opposed to abortion, reported back that there was no such evidence.

Is it really that hard for the “Party of Personal Responsibility” to understand that a woman who’s pregnant as a result of rape might not have the financial or logistical wherewithal to support a child? That it might be more responsible to let her abort the pregnancy so that she can have a child when she’s ready for it (and with someone she actually loves)?

Beyond the statistics, though, one thought comes to mind. Why can’t Republicans just keep their mouths shut about rape?

Because it is irresistible to them, it is a moral play. Just look at what’s at play here: (1) The woman is immoral if she wants to terminate a pregnancy that is the result of rape, and (2) but, she can’t get pregnant if she’s raped because her body won’t allow it, (3) she shouldn’t use birth control either because that’s immoral, besides, it’s unnecessary because God has other plans for her.

As a footnote, I don’t know why so many young women are not interested in the Republican Party, do you? Is it God’s plan or something?

Answer to your exit question, Doug: Because Republicans really, really, truly, hold beliefs that are hateful toward women and ignorant of basic biology. Not every individual Republican, of course, but it’s the zeitgeist of the Republican Party. It just is. The contemporary Republican Party’s deepest core values are that women’s bodies and women’s health and women’s deepest concerns are of lesser value than men’s are. Combine that with a profound contempt for and ignorance of science and basic biological processes, and you have the perfect Republican storm. The contemporary Republican Party, the Republican leadership, and the bloggers/media pundits who identify themselves with Republican ideology, have devolved from reasonably, usually principled believers in limited government outside of a strong military into partisans of ignorance, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, and just plain cruelty. It is what it is, and that is what it is.

Doug, if you’re looking for “politicians say stupid things” material, might I suggest our honorable vice-president? He’s been giving gun advice that, at best, will get you arrested and locked up for years. And not only does he hold a law degree, his son is Delaware’s Attorney General.

This also has the advantage of being a fully renewable resource, as Joey Plugs is an endless fount of stupid.

I’m guessing that since Karl Rove is currently in Sacramento giving a speech with the following advice:

‘My message is this: Get off your’ butts, Rove tells about 500 Republicans gathered for the party convention in downtown Sacramento. ‘Get back in the game and fight. Don’t give in to what the other side wants.’

obviously, Celeste felt the vibes and is first out of the gate to insure that the GOP remains a token party in California….and as one who resides behind the Orange Curtain…..I welcome it…

This is the GOP. Their heads are stuffed full of nonsense and lies. Because they’re stupid. How many more times must this be explained?

Aside from the stupidity we should always remember the other major pillar of the GOP: dishonesty (and you acknowledge this when you mention “lies”). I think the best way to understand the GOP is to notice that the followers are extraordinarily stupid and the leaders are extraordinarily dishonest (I think that’s the main pattern, but of course there are also many examples of dishonest followers and stupid leaders). When seen in this framework GOP behavior makes more sense.

I think the dishonest leaders amaze me even more than the stupid followers. After so long, I should be inured to it, but I’m still flabbergasted to see the brazen lying that goes on. Of course there are zillions of examples, but I’ll just mention one because it’s recent, major and typical. In his regular weekly column, appearing Friday at both WP and NR, Krauthammer said “last year’s deficit [was] $1.33 trillion.” The correct number is $1,089B (link). He inflated the correct number by 22%. He also said we’re spending $3.8T this year when the correct number is $3,553B. (What he’s doing is regurgitating old budget projections that were superseded months ago by more recent results and projections.) He does this sort of thing routinely, and so do most of his colleagues at NR.

It doesn’t surprise me that NR allows this, but I don’t quite comprehend how major obvious falsehoods like this are considered perfectly acceptable by WP editors. Seriously, wtf?

There is nothing that Vice President Joe Biden has said that has been as egregiously stupid and politically damaging as the recent comments of Murdock, Akin, and many other prominent Republicans on the topic of rape/pregnancy.

stupid things Democrats say, but Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) said that the sequester could cost 170 million jobs.

Yep, Maxine can be out to lunch, but again – do you really think that her comment (probably a misstatement) really represents the thinking of 40% to 50% of the Democratic Party? Unlike the comments of Akin, Murdock and many other Republicans on the subject of rape/pregnancy – which clearly cost the GOP electorally?

Do you think that progressives can even force themselves to acknowledge that there is a Congressional Black Caucus and that all of the members are liberal Democrats, let alone acknowledge anything that they say. Remember Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck are much more important to politics and any Democrats in the House of Senate.

Do you think that progressives can even force themselves to acknowledge that there is a Congressional Black Caucus and that all of the members are liberal Democrats, let alone acknowledge anything that they say. Remember Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck are much more important to politics and any Democrats in the House of Senate.

(1) So, who is denying this? Do you think that a conservative Black Republican would want to be part of a liberal Democratic Black Caucus? Has there been a Black Republican who was denied membership to the Congressional Black Caucus?

(2) By the way, do you really think that what Maxine Waters has to say has more political weight in the Democratic Party, than the comments of Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin have in the Republican Party? Really?

Maxine Waters is a member of the dominant political party and has a say in policy and governance. She is a member of a group caucus that it is impossible for white Democrats to mention, let alone contradict.

If some back-bencher Republican had said such a stupid thing, I am sure that every progressive would be posting and tweeting about it and Jon Stewart would do a seven minute segment about it. However, since a black Democrat said it, it will never be acknowledged and go quickly down the memory hole.

Maxine Waters is a member of the dominant political party and has a say in policy and governance. She is a member of a group caucus that it is impossible for white Democrats to mention, let alone contradict.

White people cannot mention the Black Congressional Congress? You must hang with a very politically correct group and timid of people, no?

@Jenos Idanian Who Has No Pony Tail:
I’d put Biden’s expertise in specific areas up against any elected Republican in America- foreign policy specifically– name a Republican currently serving office who is more credible on Foreign Policy than “slow” Joe.

Nothing will advance the Democrat’s War on Women Narrative faster than a bunch of men attacking a woman’s opinion on Rape.

Right there you have a perfect encapsulation of the common right-wing attitude about race and gender. In the right-wing mind, the fool-proof way to defuse any accusation of racism and sexism is not to argue against it on the merits, but simply to find one individual black person or woman espousing the controversial idea–as if to suggest that a statement cannot be anti-black if a black person utters it, or anti-woman if a woman utters it.

The right does this all the time with black conservatives, using their mere existence as a defense against racism. For example, in 2010 black Republican Congressional candidate Les Phillip ran an ad that went through 30 seconds of the usual inflammatory crap about Obama and Wright and radical Islam before ending with the declaration, “And they’re not going to call me a racist.” Herman Cain has covered similar themes: “Cain railed against liberals, who, he said, slander conservatives as ‘racist, redneck tea-baggers.’ He paused for effect, then brought the house down: ‘I had to go look in the mirror to see if I missed something!'”

This a deeply mistaken fallacy. It is possible to say things that are offensive to one’s own group. Blacks can say anti-black things, Jews can say anti-Semitic things, and women can say anti-woman things. Anyone who considers this a contradiction in terms has a poor understanding of human nature. All it means is that people are capable of holding beliefs that are degrading to themselves. Why is that so hard to grasp?

This female Republican has said something that is not only offensive to women, but also demonstrably false. But you ignore all the evidence, you ignore the entire substance of the debate, and simply fall back on the fact that the person who made this idiotic remark is a woman, as if that alone refutes the idea that women should be offended by it, or that anyone should be offended by it. What’s particularly interesting is to see conservatives employ this logic then in the next breath accuse liberals of “identity politics,” when it’s clear as day that they’re the ones allowing their whole argument to rest on the bare fact of a person’s group identity.

There is nothing that Vice President Joe Biden has said that has been as egregiously stupid and politically damaging as the recent comments of Murdock, Akin, and many other prominent Republicans on the topic of rape/pregnancy. YOU HIGH!!!!!!!……….lol….How about “I do”?

@socraticsilence: I’d put Biden’s expertise in specific areas up against any elected Republican in America- foreign policy specifically– name a Republican currently serving office who is more credible on Foreign Policy than “slow” Joe.

Oh, and last week Michelle Obama spoke about a young girl in Chicago who was murdered.

“She was standing out in a park with her friends in a neighborhood blocks away from where my kids…grew up, where our house is. She had just taken a chemistry test. And she was caught in the line of fire because some kids had some automatic weapons they didn’t need,” she said.

Thank heavens she said it to ABC News, who so thoughtfully cleaned up her liemisstatement about “automatic weapons.”

Doug, it’s remarkable how you manage to miss all these prominent Democrats saying stupid things, let manage to find these nobody Republicans saying stupid things. That takes a very special form of dedication and effort.

Doug, it’s remarkable how you manage to miss all these prominent Democrats saying stupid things, let manage to find these nobody Republicans saying stupid things. That takes a very special form of dedication and effort.

And yet nothing that you point out is as idiotic, stupid, and politically damaging as Republican comments about legitimate rape and birth control.

@al-Ameda: Apparently you missed Slow Joe Biden’s gun safety advice which will get you arrested or killed. Advice such as, when feeling threatened, immediately empty your shotgun. Or just shoot blindly through a door and hope that if anyone is on the other side, they’re a bad guy.

Definitely idiotic. Definitely stupid. But as politically damaging? With so much of the media running interference for the Democrats, not likely.

@grumpy realist: Yet, admitted “silly person” Maxine Waters was once head of the Congressional Black Caucus, and was heavily involved in the OneUnited Bank corruption scandal.

On the other hand, Republicans like Akin and the others are ostracized by the GOP for being idiots. They’re only held up as exemplars of the GOP by you and others who want excuses to rationalize your GOP hatred.

Doug, if you’re looking for “politicians say stupid things” material, might I suggest our honorable vice-president? He’s been giving gun advice that, at best, will get you arrested and locked up for years.

Umm… Doug did write a post on that here. Funny that you don’t seem to remember it, especially since you contributed at least three comments to the thread.

On the other hand, Republicans like Akin and the others are ostracized by the GOP for being idiots. They’re only held up as exemplars of the GOP by you and others who want excuses to rationalize your GOP hatred.

Ummm… do you have any *actual* proof of that. The point that I raised above is that people who keep circulating the idea of “in cases of rape the body just shuts that down” are putting forward an idea that is continually circulating in Republican circles. And John Wilke, who is responsible for pushing this idea, was a consultant to, and sometimes surrogate of, Mitt Romney.

Further, try having any actual, science based discussion of Climate Change in the current Republican party or Right Wing Media sphere.

Yes, Dem’s say stupid things. But, with Republicans and bad science, these are not *isolated* incidents. There’s a reason why MULTIPLE Republicans keep stating the *same* wrong facts OVER AND OVER AGAIN. A large section of the Republican party has cultivated an anti-science attitude for at least the last thirty years and that does have a number of policy implications.