I can't see Spain blocking any move to give an independent Scotland EU membership Danny, even during the run up to the last Indyref the then Spanish Premier, Mariano Rajoy, went to great lengths to discourage comparisons between Scotland and Catalonia, arguing that both cases were ‘absolutely and totally different’.

After all, if the UK is no longer an EU state, then Scotland is no longer a region separating from a member state and joining as its own member state.

Hello Jagz

The reason I have quoted your post is to use the second paragraph to highlight some of the quandries I think lie ahead for the SNP. The following is not directed at you personally.

During the recent referendum on Scotland's Independence, EU citizens living in Scotland were allowed to take part. What came across to me was that the SNP was confident that EU citizens would vote 'YES' for Independence.

When the 'NO' result was made public, the older Scottish generation was blamed for this result. Personally, I thought that any EU citizen who voted 'YES' must have lost the plot. Why would you vote 'YES' and put your right to live in Scotland in jeapordy? So I think that many EU citizens would have voted 'NO'. In fact I think that the majority of them would have voted 'NO'. Why rock the boat?

Again, referring to your second paragraph, you say Scotland would join as its own member state. This gives the impression that joining the EU would have been an easy process. I don't think so.

So now we leap forward to post UK referendum on EU membership. Do the SNP try to trigger another Scottish Independence referendum before the UK actually leaves the EU because, in that case, EU citizens will be allowed to vote. And they will certainly vote YES this time.

If the SNP waits until after the UK leaves the EU, the SNP will have to gamble the Scottish public want Independence, because there will be no EU citizens taking part in the referendum. Many Scots who voted to stay in the EU voted against Independence. A wee quandry their for the SNP?

Do the SNP try to trigger another Scottish Independence referendum before the UK actually leaves the EU because, in that case, EU citizens will be allowed to vote. And they will certainly vote YES this time.

If the SNP waits until after the UK leaves the EU, the SNP will have to gamble the Scottish public want Independence, because there will be no EU citizens taking part in the referendum. Many Scots who voted to stay in the EU voted against Independence. A wee quandry their for the SNP?

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 15th Aug 2016, 12:12pm)

The SNP will have to wait until a Brexit deal is done and if Scottish interests are not adequately protected then they have a mandate to call for a second indyref.

I agree with Jagz. Once a Brexit deal is done then the SNP could rerun our Indyref, but I hope they won't. I would give the UK at least one electoral cycle before triggering another constitutional crisis.

If the UK becomes arguably worse-off because of Brexit, then let the SNP make 2021 all about Indy once again, and hold a conclusive and 'final-in-a-lifetime' ref in 2023/24. But until then and for the next 4 years, I refuse to listen to the SNP on this issue, it's undemocratic. Come 2021, who knows, and who can say what (if anything) would help the SNP cause; a better or worse-off independent UK?

The Selfie Queen says 'Independence' transcends everything and thus Indy2 will stay on that table of hers for the foreseeable future.p.s Wonder what she thinks of Tracy Ulman's manic impression of her?

Sturgeon's intransigence ever since 2014 has left her open to such popular ridicule. Heaven knows we need to find a funny side to Scottish Politics, unless your objection is of religious proportions...

QUOTE (From The National)

I might sound like a grumpy old grandad who’s out of step with everything that’s cool and trendy but really: what’s all this fuss about Tracey Ullman? Is it the young folk who like her? Hardly. She became a superstar in America and when she returned to the BBC last year with great fanfare I’m sure most young viewers wouldn’t have known her name.

So maybe it’s the older generation who love her?

Surely not. They came of age when comedy was funny, living through the surreal stuff of Monty Python and Spike Milligan, so why would they settle for Tracey Ullman?

Is it the 40-somethings, then? They grew up in the 1980s, in the wonderful age of alternative comedy, and were then blessed with Seinfeld.

But wait …when Ullman re-appeared last year I did a bit of Googling and found that she was actually a star of that alternative comedy scene before going to America.

Apparently everyone adored her. Because I am under the age of 40, this was news to me, and, having watched her show, I still find it hard to believe.

Is this an example, perhaps, of what the Trump crowd call “fake news”?

When they hear something they don’t like and they stamp their meaty feet and screech that it’s all made up?

I just find it hard to believe that the cool people who were into alternative comedy are now pulling up a chair to watch her awful BBC series.

So who is watching Tracey Ullman’s Show (BBC1, Friday)? Own up. It must be someone.

It must be pulling in the punters because it was given a second series, which started last night and is going to go on for another six interminable weeks.

But then Citizen Khan keeps being granted new series on BBC1, as does Mrs Brown’s Boys, so the simple fact of being present on the channel is no indicator of comic talent.

You could even argue the opposite, given that the best TV comedies in recent years have either been BBC2, BBC3 or Channel 4. It’s the broad, sagging, tiresome stuff that gets put out on prime-time BBC1. The last series of Tracey Ullman’s Show was stuffed full of impressions of Angela Merkel, Judi Dench and Nicola Sturgeon.

Ullman would stick on some prosthetics and a wig and start capering.

It was mildly funny,and I’ll admit her Merkel was good.

But it starts to grate when she does it again and again and again. So there was dismay when I watched last night’s show and found the same old nonsense.

More Judi Dench sweeping dramatically around town and getting away with various crimes because she’s a “national treasure.”

There was more stern Merkel, stomping and barking, and there was more Nicola Sturgeon portrayed as a nippy sweetie.

Ullman’s Sturgeon sketch took place in some dungeon festooned with flags and banners which were obviously aping the swastika. On a chair in the centre of the room was a hooded figure tied to a chair.

This was JK Rowling. Sturgeon and “ma wee Scottish terrier”, Mhairi Black, had kidnapped her because she doesn’t like Scotland and won’t eat shortbread.

I’m not precious or prickly when it comes to jokes about Scotland – as long as it’s funny then I’ll laugh – but this was trash.

When Trump is talking about bringing back torture, it was cheap and distasteful to see JK Rowling tied up, blinded with a hood, and being head-butted. If you missed the show, don’t fret. It is so repetitive I’m sure she’ll do the exact same sketch next week.

Or maybe there will be a burst of splendid creativity and, instead, she’ll give us Mhairi Black dishing out a Glesga Kiss to Theresa May, or Sturgeon trying to force-feed haggis to Boris Johnson? This from such a comedy “star”? She should be embarrassed

Maybe The National doesnt know that Miss Black is on public record saying that she would like to 'nut'Labour politicians.As for La sturgeon, anyone who has watched FMQ's will know that she is indeed a 'Nippy Sweetie'

I could never understand why there was such a big fuss over Tracey Ullman all those years ago, didn't find it particularly funny then or now. I did let out a laugh when I seen the sketch the other day on facebook though, not for its humour (or lack of) but for the portrayal of Mhari as a 'nutter' and I knew that there'd be some frothing at the mouth and likely shouting racist at the TV

--------------------

“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”Mikhail Gorbachev

Wee Eck says its game on for Indy 2 ,all it needs is for the Selfie Queen to take it off that table of hers.Of course it will be 2018 at the earliest, the Nats seem to be hoping that Brexit will be a disaster!?Odd that they think such an outcome will get people to vote for another exit.

Nicola Sturgeon has announced a new drive for Scottish Independence. It would appear that this will entail hundreds of SNP supporters calling at our doors.

She says' "To ensure that the voices of everyone in Scotland is heard in these changed times, I am today launching Scotland's biggest ever political listening exercise. - a new conversation and a new debate for these times".

At this moment in time I don't know how this exercise will be carried out. It is therefore pointless of me making any personal comment regarding this issue. I do feel though, that as it will obviously touch on Scotland's Independence and the EU referendum result, this matter 'deserves' a topic on its own.

Has anyone had a visit from the SNP since Nicola Sturgeon announced her new drive for Independence? Has anyone received notification from the SNP of any public meetings regarding this issue? I haven't. I wrote to my SNP, MSP in January, asking for a copy of written information regarding the SNP 's new drive for Independence. Her reply was, " I have a copy, which I will send you". I am still waiting for it.

I have written this before in another topic, but it is relevant to the SNP's new drive for Independence.

In politics, the way ISSUES are handled, is simple. (not the solutions to these issues). Three headings are used. I hope to illlustrate why Theresa May is taking the stance she is taking regarding another Scottish Independence Referendum.

The three headings are:

1 - The ISSUE

2 - The BACKGROUND

3 - The LINE TO TAKE

So lets deal with the ISSUE that Theresa May is dealing with right NOW.

1 - The ISSUE

The UK has voted to leave the EU, therefore discussions must begin, to implement this decision.

2 - The BACKGROUND

Prior to the above referendum, the UK was expected to vote to stay in the EU. The actual result has divided the UK. However, the UK Government has now gone ahead to inform the EU by letter, that dicussions can now begin to agree on terms for the UK to exit the EU.

The Scottish Parliament voted today, by a majority, to seek another Independence referendum on the grounds that the Scottish electorate voted during the EU referendum to stay in the EU.

3 - The LINE TO TAKE

Tell the SNP and the Scottish Parliament, to look at the ISSUE above. Only the UK is mentioned.

Now that Nicola Sturgeon has sent her letter to Theresa May, requesting a second Scotttish Independence referendum, I would like to make a few comments.

As someone who has one foot in the grave and will be long gone before the so called Brexit is finally implemented, in my opinion, Nicola Sturgeon and her SNP cronies at this moment in time are not really interested in Independence. They want to disrupt the process for negotiating the UK's exit from the EU as much as possible. She knows that negotiation is a necessary requirement to finalise agreement on the terms for exit.

Are we expected to believe that if the Scottish electorate had voted for Independence there would have been no negotiating taking place between the UK and Scottish Government? On a Friday we would have left the UK, then on the following Monday, the Scottish Government would have taken control of everything without any agreement with the UK Government? Give us a break!

Sure the banks would have opened for business on the first Monday of Independence, carrying on business as usual. The only problem would have been that the AMT machines would have been unusable because the SNP had forgotten to negotiate with the UK Government as to what currency would be used on Independence Monday. The bank staff would be in their normal cashier positions, but just to explain to their customers, the SNP had forgotten to inform the banking industry what currency was to be used.

Without negotiations, Scotland would be in chaos.

Another example would be that a Russian military aircraft was seen approaching Scotland on Independence Monday. What does Nicola do? On the phone to Theresa. "Sorry to trouble you Prime Minister, but could you send one of your British fighter planes to see off this Russian spy plane"?

But one thing will not be up for negotiation, because there is no need for it. Scotland will still give EU citizens free University education. John Swinney will make sure of that.

All material in the site Glasgow Guide is copyright of the Glasgow Guide Organisation. This material is for your own private use only, and no part of the site may be reproduced, amended, modified, copied, or transmitted to third parties, by any means whatsoever without the prior written permission of the copyright owner. All rights reserved.