Tell me about...A career in the military (or overseas)!

USAF weather dude working near Ramstein. Living overseas is amazing (as I post from a hotel room in France) and the compensation is more than I was expecting... but I'll probably be force shaped out next year. I have mixed feelings about the "clown college", so hit me up privately if you have any specific questions.

Visi: I'm going to Australia for a year in November. They're crying out for IT people. My friend applied for his Visa last Monday morning. He filled in a form on the embassy website, and by 3pm that day he had an email saying his visa was approved. It's a one year "working holiday" visa, with an option to extend it for another year. You can only work for one company for 6 months, though. Perfect for working for a bit, saving every penny, then going travelling until the money runs out, rinse, repeat.

Frankly, that's bull. I grew up in section 8 housing, ate "gubnant" cheese, and was on welfare up until I was 18.

If I can manage to get a degree, anyone can. If you CHOOSE not to get a degree, or not to invest in yourself by taking out student loans to get a degree, that is a choice you make, not a lack of availability.

quote:

No, I don't work nights. I work morning to night, and I don't get off of work until night classes have already begun, making attendance virtually impossible.

Get another job. Get 2. Get a janitorial job at a local community college and get some classes in for free. Offer to work weekends if you are allowed to leave early enough to get to class on time. Take CLEP tests and shave 2 years of school (and tuition) off. Do what it takes to make what you want happen. I lived off $250 a month for 5 years to get my degree. And I busted my ass in the summer to earn as much as I could. And I still graduated with about $27k in student loans. But without that degree, I wouldn't have the salary I have now.

If you don't want a degree, or don't want to do what it takes to get one, then don't complain about the lack of opportunity you are running into because you don't have a degree.

What are your thoughts about going to school? You've said plenty about why you can't (at this moment, anyway). But if you could, would you?

And let's be clear, the "could you" is not so hard to achieve. There are plenty of jobs out there where you can work 9 to 5, and have the time to attend classes. If your current gig is not such, then it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to change it, if you have 10 years in IT and can demonstrate the knowledge that that should bring.

Originally posted by andyfatbastard:Visi: I'm going to Australia for a year in November. They're crying out for IT people. My friend applied for his Visa last Monday morning. He filled in a form on the embassy website, and by 3pm that day he had an email saying his visa was approved. It's a one year "working holiday" visa, with an option to extend it for another year. You can only work for one company for 6 months, though. Perfect for working for a bit, saving every penny, then going travelling until the money runs out, rinse, repeat.

Join me.

Presumably this scheme only works as Australia's a Commonwealth country, while the US is not.

Frankly, that's bull. I grew up in section 8 housing, ate "gubnant" cheese, and was on welfare up until I was 18.

If I can manage to get a degree, anyone can. If you CHOOSE not to get a degree, or not to invest in yourself by taking out student loans to get a degree, that is a choice you make, not a lack of availability.

quote:

No, I don't work nights. I work morning to night, and I don't get off of work until night classes have already begun, making attendance virtually impossible.

Get another job. Get 2. Get a janitorial job at a local community college and get some classes in for free. Offer to work weekends if you are allowed to leave early enough to get to class on time. Take CLEP tests and shave 2 years of school (and tuition) off. Do what it takes to make what you want happen. I lived off $250 a month for 5 years to get my degree. And I busted my ass in the summer to earn as much as I could. And I still graduated with about $27k in student loans. But without that degree, I wouldn't have the salary I have now.

If you don't want a degree, or don't want to do what it takes to get one, then don't complain about the lack of opportunity you are running into because you don't have a degree.

Let me be a little more specific;

I make an "ok" salary of ~$43k/yr.

The reason I can't afford to go to college, is because my work schedule is 7am - 9pm, with almost zero exception, 6 (sometimes 7) days a week.

When I was laid off from Earthlink, I was unemployed for 6 months while I looked for work. The company that hired me is the only company that even called me after ~70 some resumes that I sent out. Needless to say, the job market for IT in Los Angeles is not overly friendly.

Also, it is fucking expensive to live in L.A. If I were to go back to school, I'd have to quit my job. Quitting my job means losing my apartment, as I'd have no income. Like I mentioned before, I do not have anyone that I can "crash" with, either. I have no family, and I have no friends with extra space or room for a student.

...and I am not about to give up my current job to go to school, when I cannot be guaranteed of landing a job for income while I'm schooling. Abandoning my current job without lining something else up first is simply foolish.

You've said that you're 99% sure that a layoff is coming. I think it's fair to say that most of the posts with constructive feedback about school have been made with that in mind.

When the hammer drops on you, all this business about your apartment and your work hours and crashing with someone becomes moot. Are you ready for less expensive digs, part-time or night work, and school?

The problem I'm facing, however, is that I'm between a rock and a hard place; without a job, I can't support myself. Without a college degree, it's impossible to find a job...but to get a college degree I need to find some way to support myself...

Originally posted by Visigothan:No criminal record, not even an arrest.

No debt to speak of (save for 1 credit card, almost paid off)

No college degree.

Over 10 years work experience in my field

No communicable or other diseases

Not a religious wackjob

I think I'm good on everything except the college degree.

The problem I'm facing, however, is that I'm between a rock and a hard place; without a job, I can't support myself. Without a college degree, it's impossible to find a job...but to get a college degree I need to find some way to support myself...

...and it begins all over again.

financial aid/student loans?

(I realize you want to avoid debt, but if it's the only way, it's really not such a bad thing (certainly much better than CC debt))

I saw this thread the other day, but figured that it must be a piss-take.

Choosing between Australia and New Zealand would be largely a matter of preference. NZ is a little colder, a lot smaller, and in my experience even the more significant cities had a bit of a 'country town' feel to them (but it's a few years since I've spent any serious time over there, and that may have changed).

NZ citizens are effectively treated the same as Australian citizens in Australia, and one of the problems that NZ has is that many of its bright young people come over to Australia to work.

Australia has a skilled migration program. I'm not sure about all the details, but you can read about it here. I have a mate who works in immigration (although its the bit concerned with kicking people out, not letting them in), so if you have any specific queries, I might be able to get them answered.

Having recently tried to employ an IT person, I can tell you we have a massive skills shortage in Canberra (although being from LA, Canberra might be a bit chilly for you). If you can do any of the following, you have an Occupation in Demand, which helps:

Computing Professional - specialising in CISSP 2231-79Computing Professional - specialising in E-commerce Security (non-programming) 2231-79Computing Professional - specialising in Network Security 2231-79Computing Professional - specialising in SAP 2231-79Computing Professional - specialising in SIEBEL

Whilst I'm not entirely sure that Canberra can handle the Visi, feel free to ask me any questions about life here or in Melbourne.

Originally posted by Visigothan:No criminal record, not even an arrest.

No debt to speak of (save for 1 credit card, almost paid off)

No college degree.

Over 10 years work experience in my field

No communicable or other diseases

Not a religious wackjob

I think I'm good on everything except the college degree.

The problem I'm facing, however, is that I'm between a rock and a hard place; without a job, I can't support myself. Without a college degree, it's impossible to find a job...but to get a college degree I need to find some way to support myself...

...and it begins all over again.

We're you willing to change your work attire, you could make double what you do in my town(Grand Rapids, MI). The problem is that it's so much less expensive to live here . I'm in a custom 3k-sq/ft ranch on over 1/2 acre for less than $250K. Fly-over country FTW. I make six figures with no degree and 9 years in infrastructure. LA is a great place to visit...wouldn't want to live there. Just find a place on the east side of town. You'd not do well on the west side.

Yeah...the midwest really isn't my thing. I traveled all over the USA when I was younger, and the "country bumpkin" level of every place I visited was waaaaaaaaay too high. That, and the bible-belt factor really pisses me off.

I guess I just have to weigh my options and figure out what the fuck to do.

Go for it. You will probably test out really high which will open up quite a few jobs for you in the military.

Want to blow things up--Tanks or EODWant to work on engines -- Helo mechLike radars--air defenseLike sats--sat communicationsLike the good stuff.-- Nuke school in the NavyWant a real challenge - Special Forces, Seal Team

I spent 13 years in and had a blast. I got to fire pistols, tank rounds, a patriot missle and my favorite, Machine Guns.

For Navy IT pukes, they have one catchall "job", or Rate: Information Technician

They work in two areas essentially: radio/comms and IT. In one section, they run the LAN, do trouble calls for user and hardware problems, and admin the servers onboard ship. The other section handles the software side of communications.

The Navy has contracted out all of it's shore installation IT chores to EDS ($4 billion and counting it has cost EDS to date; I gould go on for days about how well it isn't working), so unfortunately IT is now a mainly shipboard rate. That is, they are assigned to a ship more often and for longer stretches of time than they are assigned to a shore installation.

The Navy is also in the midst of a 33,000 person drawdown, so advancement to the next higher paygrade is getting pretty tight in some rates (mine, for instance. )

We don't deploy as a general rule as much as our bretheren services, but we do go, sometimes for 10 months at a time. 6-7 months is the average. However, except for a few cases, we don't go anywhere particularly hazardous. No roadside bombs can get you while you are 35 miles out to sea, for example. That being said, the Navy has started to send individuals in country to Iraq and Afghanistan, performing admin and supply puke type jobs so that some soldiers can get some slack in their rotation schedule.

Staying in the L.A. area is out, though, since Long Beach Shipyard is closed. Closest would be San Diego, or Naval Air Station Pt. Magu up by Santa Barbara.

Originally posted by Visigothan:Yeah...the midwest really isn't my thing. I traveled all over the USA when I was younger, and the "country bumpkin" level of every place I visited was waaaaaaaaay too high. That, and the bible-belt factor really pisses me off.

I guess I just have to weigh my options and figure out what the fuck to do.

Visi, are you REALLY sure you are willfully giving up the ability to SAVE $40-$50k a year for the next 5 years, just because people wave at you while driving by?

I mean, COMEON! It is only just slightly harder to find your type of people anywhere you would go, but GO WHERE THE MONEY IS. You're young enough to really haul ass on this. Once you get the skillset and the experience, you can make a change in 5 years with favorable results. That, plus $200k in the bank.

Originally posted by Visigothan:Yeah...the midwest really isn't my thing. I traveled all over the USA when I was younger, and the "country bumpkin" level of every place I visited was waaaaaaaaay too high. That, and the bible-belt factor really pisses me off.

I guess I just have to weigh my options and figure out what the fuck to do.

Have you considered the East Coast? Preferably Boston?

If you think of it, there are more opportunities IT-wise out here than in LA, from what I'm gathering. Hell, I'll e-mail you my resume to show how "inexperienced" I am (my knowledge of computers is solely based upon my own findings as of right now), and I have been getting calls all over the place.

If you need help, you know you got some of us "bah-ston" Arsians to help you out

What about getting a degree overseas? I know for instance for Belgium it's reasonably simple to get a time-limited visa to study, and well, uni here is cheap compared to the US...Sure it'll be time-limited for the course of the degree, but that can always be changed after the fact. Also remember that once you get a visa for a .eu country, it's fairly easy to hop between coutries here.

The thing I don't understand is that from reading what you wrote, it sounds like you're tired with your living situation (and I bet a lack of friends contributes greatly to that), unhappy in IT,you want to study, so what's holding you back? Even if it's moving to the bible belt, remember, you can do tat for a few years and save up and then move elsewhere or something?

Move someplace more tolerable, and -cheaper-, San Antonio is booming at the moment. 2Wire is shoving a call centre in there, and theyre likely to be looking for techs soon, including full IT staff.

150k mortages in SA are coming back at $600 a month..... with 0% down and 600 credit score.

Visi, you have no concept of how many freedoms you actually have in the US. Im currently up to my neck in personal / married life shit with my american wife. Im from the UK, I dont -ever- want to move back there, its too small, too on top of one another, too goddamn assbackwards. It`d kill me inside a year.

You think the dogma is bad here, good luck in the UK, in Ulster you have the protestants going for the Roman catholics, on the mainland you have the pakkies, the blacks, the chavs, the wideboys and all kinds of racial tension and problems. Youve got the smug cunts in the south, vs the grim up North, the sheep fucking welsh and the Manaical scots. You have political bullshit on a level that makes your head spin. Arcaic laws and legislation, taxation that makes no fucking sense, gas that costs more per litre than you pay per gallon in the US.

EVERYTHING is smaller and limited, you know how you go to the store and theres an isle for cereal and 200 different choices, in the UK, good luck over 15-20 choices. The TV is limited unless you get -limited- cable or satellite tv and then its 6months to a year behind the US for popular shoes. BT has a monopoly on the telecoms (still), good luck getting stable high speed and not paying out the arse for it.

Denmark, fantastic country, great healthcare system, but from friends living there, immigration is causing huge tensions. Full of lego and small island, lots of lovely women around.

France, lovely people bar the parisians, paralysed by political nonsense and a general malaise for the on french.

Italy, not been there, political turmoil that boils over, fanatical soccer fans.

Germany, the finest cars in europe, a mad motorway/freeway system, great beer, great food, absolutely no sense of humour.

Switzerland, everyone has an automatic weapon in their closet, crime is almost nil, anal to the extent that your neighbours will sic the police on you if you dont wash your car or rake up your lawn.

Nordic regions, Sweden, Finland, Norway, fucking cold 6 months a year, very little between them and the north pole than the odd horny reindeer, highest suicide rate in the world, simply because for 6 months a year theres nothing to do but drink and fuck, and theres only so many gorgeous blondes you can handle. Oh and 60% taxation rates, great cars too.

Holland, fantastic country, great infrastructure, lots of high speed around, lots of immigrants fucking it up. Silly taxation rates, great healthcare, one of the few places in the world you can get stoned legally and then go visit whores legally.

Monte Carlo - youre not rich enough.

Lichtenstein - I think they play soccer, thats about it.

Portugal - Small and mostly like spain, only more brazilian .. if that makes sense. Fanatical about soccer, far too many sweaty germans on holiday there.

First off, the degree thing is crap, at least domestically. If you really have ten years of solid, provable IT experience (and given that you say you're 25, I think it'd probably be best to underestimate), you CAN get a very well paying IT job. You just need to be either actively looking now or get the fuck out of California. I have no degree, nor even a high school diploma, but I'm making much more than what they're paying you even though I'm only claiming six years of experience. It's tough to "break in," but once you land a "real" position, you're made.

It takes a lot of bullshit to get to that point, though. I was unemployed for a full year and then had to work in a non-IT field for six months before I was able to get back in IT and double my salary.

If you do want a degree, I agree that going overseas is a much better idea than attending some $150k domestic diploma mill.

Also, don't discount the Foreign Service. Someone already mentioned it, and it's an amazing deal if you can swing it. I'm not talking Foreign Service Officer, either, just standard IT specialist positions.

They pay for your (ridiculously nice) housing and since you'll be posted overseas, the first ~$80k you make will be tax-free.

Military is always an option as that door is not likely to close in the future. If you do decide to join, though, I would suggest considering using the opportunity to learn a new skill, as opposed to further specializing in IT. You only live once.

In regards to Boston...Sure, why not? However, I can't imagine the cost of living is that much lower than in Los Angeles. What other information do you have for me, JSClark?

In regards to living here:

for a decent 1BR (which is what I'm assuming you live in right now), expect to pay about 600-800/month, including heat and hot water. Thats basically outside the "495 Belt" (or, the suburbs West of Boston). There is housing that is just as cheap in/around Boston, but don't be suprised to hear about murders going down around you.

But there is cheaper housing than that, in decent areas of the Central - Eastern Mass area. As of late, I have been checking out Craig's List, and seeing some nice places (and we're talking 2BR apartments that take up whole floors of multi-family houses) for about 600-800. It's all about looking around the area and determining what is best for you, as I'm sure that you are aware of that already.

IT related: From what I remember from your past posts, you seem to have a heavy knowledge when it comes to IT. If you want, I may be able to hook you up with a guy that might have some work for you. Granted, its on an as-needed basis, but it may work in your favor. Also, as I said before, I work for a prestigous job board, I may be able to help you out there as well if you are truly interested.

And I know you stressed the fact about not really wanting to go back to school, but have you considered part-time?

check out www.wit.edu <- that is the school I attend for night classes towards my bachelor's degree... about 6k/year for tuition alone. Wentworth is one of the better technology schools in the area, and I have heard various recruiters telling me about the students that come out of the school. My friend's father works as one of the top-notch software developers for Intel, and he says he will take anyone with a Wentworth degree before any other school. But enough about that pimpage

I say, if you have the time / coin, come out for a week to check it out and see if things might/will work out. Sounds like you should have better luck out here than in LA.

Denmark, fantastic country, great healthcare system, but from friends living there, immigration is causing huge tensions. Full of lego and small island, lots of lovely women around.

Switzerland, everyone has an automatic weapon in their closet, crime is almost nil, anal to the extent that your neighbours will sic the police on you if you dont wash your car or rake up your lawn.

Nordic regions, Sweden, Finland, Norway, fucking cold 6 months a year, very little between them and the north pole than the odd horny reindeer, highest suicide rate in the world, simply because for 6 months a year theres nothing to do but drink and fuck, and theres only so many gorgeous blondes you can handle. Oh and 60% taxation rates, great cars too.

Holland, fantastic country, great infrastructure, lots of high speed around, lots of immigrants fucking it up. Silly taxation rates, great healthcare, one of the few places in the world you can get stoned legally and then go visit whores legally.

I love them already.

^_^

EDIT:

JSClark:

The Boston thing sounds interesting.

One of my biggest hurdles right now though is funds. If I take time off of work, especially now, I am certain my job will fire me and seek a replacement. That's simply the way Hollywood works, unfortunately. The other problem with that, is since I don't get paid vacation, I have to save up enough money before I go anywhere to make sure all my bills at home are covered for the time that I'm gone.

I am going to have to play it by ear.

Also, I am not opposed to going back to college, however, I honestly have no idea what I'd do, other than art (and that's expensive).

Hm. How about a job at NATO? That's the job listing for the HQ in Brussels, there's other stuff available...Mind you, traffic to and from Evere sucks, which would make you feel right at home (I swear putting the HQ in such a bad traffic spot is their primary defense mechanism or something ). Have you looked into jobs available at American embassies around the globe? Do you speak a second language? Are you willing to learn a second language?

darkseid mentioned Switserland (Paging Vlip! paging Vlip!) and iirc there's a few peculiarities with regards to Switsrland. one is that if you want citizenship after moving there, it's a process whereby (iirc) your neighbours and fellow citizens vote on if they're going to allow you citizenship. I also know someone whose daughter lives there, there's some other gotcha's I can't remember at the moment.

Wih regards to Holland...well, our social security is better than theirs, and we can get high legally too

I found this link an interesting read too about US vs EU differences, fwiw, although I certainly don't agree with everything said in it (like the amount of hours worked, see the recent discussion on amount of work hours versus productivity we had here somewhere...)

With regards to savings, you'll need some money to move overseas anyways...

You think the dogma is bad here, good luck in the UK, in Ulster you have the protestants going for the Roman catholics, on the mainland you have the pakkies, the blacks, the chavs, the wideboys and all kinds of racial tension and problems. Youve got the smug cunts in the south, vs the grim up North, the sheep fucking welsh and the Manaical scots. You have political bullshit on a level that makes your head spin. Arcaic laws and legislation, taxation that makes no fucking sense, gas that costs more per litre than you pay per gallon in the US.

Originally posted by andyfatbastard:Visi: I'm going to Australia for a year in November. They're crying out for IT people. My friend applied for his Visa last Monday morning. He filled in a form on the embassy website, and by 3pm that day he had an email saying his visa was approved. It's a one year "working holiday" visa, with an option to extend it for another year. You can only work for one company for 6 months, though. Perfect for working for a bit, saving every penny, then going travelling until the money runs out, rinse, repeat.

Denmark, fantastic country, great healthcare system, but from friends living there, immigration is causing huge tensions. Full of lego and small island, lots of lovely women around.

Switzerland, everyone has an automatic weapon in their closet, crime is almost nil, anal to the extent that your neighbours will sic the police on you if you dont wash your car or rake up your lawn.

Nordic regions, Sweden, Finland, Norway, fucking cold 6 months a year, very little between them and the north pole than the odd horny reindeer, highest suicide rate in the world, simply because for 6 months a year theres nothing to do but drink and fuck, and theres only so many gorgeous blondes you can handle. Oh and 60% taxation rates, great cars too.

Holland, fantastic country, great infrastructure, lots of high speed around, lots of immigrants fucking it up. Silly taxation rates, great healthcare, one of the few places in the world you can get stoned legally and then go visit whores legally.

I love them already.

^_^

EDIT:

JSClark:

The Boston thing sounds interesting.

One of my biggest hurdles right now though is funds. If I take time off of work, especially now, I am certain my job will fire me and seek a replacement. That's simply the way Hollywood works, unfortunately. The other problem with that, is since I don't get paid vacation, I have to save up enough money before I go anywhere to make sure all my bills at home are covered for the time that I'm gone.

I am going to have to play it by ear.

Also, I am not opposed to going back to college, however, I honestly have no idea what I'd do, other than art (and that's expensive).

Wow, they give you no vacation time?? @_@

uhh, yeah, dude, save up some cash, and come out this way to feel it out. You are going to get laid off anyways, so either way, they are going to get rid of you. Not to mention, I could never work for a place that demands you 14 hours a day to tend to their server farm, only to get barely enough to pay my bills.

In terms of school, there's Mass College of Art (which is right across the street from Wentworth), which is also another good school from what I hear.