Just heard some sketchy details on the news about a climber who fell 10m at araps and was airlifted out.
They said he broke both ankles amongst other injuries but was otherwise ok and chatting to the camera.

Hope the guy involved has a speedy recovery and a reminder to everyone else to play it safe!

On 8/06/2008 Sabu wrote:>Just heard some sketchy details on the news about a climber who fell 10m>at araps and was airlifted out.
On kitten wall >They said he broke both ankles amongst other injuries but was otherwise>ok and chatting to the camera.
Lucky fellow>Hope the guy involved has a speedy recovery and a reminder to everyone>else to play it safe!
And remember to make an effort to distinguish between TAKE & SAFE or when being lowered by the
belayer...... to grab the other side of the rope coming from the rap station/anchor to make sure that you
are indeed on a solid belayed lower..... before committing to the big drop ....BP

Another spin off from the accident was that we had a chopper buzzing around for twenty minutes, and for most of the time they kept really close to the crag. It made it impossible to hear what your leader/seconder was yelling, thereby making things dodgy for everyone else as well.

>And remember to make an effort to distinguish between TAKE & SAFE or when>being lowered by the belayer...... to grab the other side of the rope coming from the rap station/anchor to make sure that you are indeed on a solid belayed lower..... before committing to the big drop ....BP

so, are you implying the cause was a cumunication stuff-up, or are you jsut saying be safe in general ?

The fall was on kitten wall! not many easy beginner climbs up there, (beginners most usually stuff up)
the fall was 20m about the height of the anchors on this wall, the top outs are generally easy.
This leaves the potential communication error as the most likely cause of the accident.
Just speaking from my experiences as a rescuer at Arapiles, I could be wrong, but the advise is good.
Always confirm the "plan" before launching off, and try to keep communication open at all times.
when communication is an issue, then use radios (on multi pitch) or just double check the calls. BP

On 10/06/2008 Capt_mulch wrote:>Another spin off from the accident was that we had a chopper buzzing around>for twenty minutes, and for most of the time they kept really close to>the crag. It made it impossible to hear what your leader/seconder was yelling,>thereby making things dodgy for everyone else as well.

Must be really annoying to have rescue helicopters spoiling your climbing day !!
Maybe if you ever deck out they can carry you out by stretcher instead!!

There's a great story about a guy who broke his leg on Lundy in the UK. They choppered him out and half way back over the water he heard the pilot say, "we're going down, thrown him out". And the crew ditched as the helicopter ploughed in. Imagine bobbing up and down in a stretcher.

On 11/06/2008 maxdacat wrote:>what's wrong with 3 tugs for safe and another 3 for on belay?

This can turn ugly really quickly, as I have experienced on a multi pitch climb, very windy weather, hence
the tug the rope system, long story short the wind kept blowing the draw away from me after pulling the
rope up to clip, then after dropping it and shaking out, I would try again with the same result......
Then by a freak chance in the howling wind, hearing that I was OFF BELAY!, well the last 30 meters
were done in a fairly gripped style!!! knowing that the further I climbed the further I would fall!!!
radios are the preferred system these days. no confusion and no screaming into the wind only to hear a
vague ....WHAT!

On 11/06/2008 bomber pro wrote:>radios are the preferred system these days. no confusion and no screaming>into the wind only to hear a >vague ....WHAT!

"i'm in a jet aircraft ...what could go wrong ??!"....more technology will not help..what do you do when the batteries go flat, or you drop the thing..?

There should be no problem if you can't hear your partner..make a fail safe assumption and keep them on belay. OK, they'll be slow pulling up the rope, but hey, what's better..to take them of belay, or loose a few minutes? Since they should only be taking up the rope if they are ready to belay, once all the rope is up, start climbing. They should have made the same fail-safe assumption, and pull the rope up through the belay device.

Works best with a regular partner, but so long as you don't take them off belay, and they put you on belay to pull the rope up.. there's no need to talk. I'm allways bemused by climbers yelling every micro action they'd doing back and forth to each other.

Might work fine with a regular partner. But still plenty of room for error. Rope being used in anchor, 50m climb on a 50m rope are two that spring to mind easily. Yes, fail-safes are good, but another option before resorting to it can only be an improvement.

On 11/06/2008 Richard wrote:>On 11/06/2008 bomber pro wrote:>>radios are the preferred system these days. no confusion and no screaming>>into the wind only to hear a >>vague ....WHAT!>>"i'm in a jet aircraft ...what could go wrong ??!"....more technology>will not help..what do you do when the batteries go flat, or you drop the>thing..?

I'm not sure I agree with you here Richard, I agree that radios are subject to failure, but that's no reason to leave them at home and struggle with yelling in high wind.

I have used radios many times on longer climbs where visibility / weather has impacted our ability to communicate organically, and the radios have been a real blessing. Granted, we have an agreed process to follow if we find that the radios fail unexpectedly.

IMO, so long as you have a plan to follow if the radios fail, their use can make life on the wall heaps better.

Before you leave the ground make sure you have your communication right. If it is windy and there is a chance you will not be heard, I agree with Richard, you don't take your partner off belay, when they have lead out and used all the rope just clean you anchors and enjoy the climb. If the leader has done the right thing there will always be protection between both him and the person on second (until the second get's to the last piece). As you get closer to the leader communication will get better and you will be able to ascertain whether you are on belay or not. Obviously you do not climbing if the rope is not being taken in.
The most important thing is to enjoy the climb and do it safely

On 12/06/2008 comablur wrote:>Obviously you do not climbing if the rope is not being taken in.

Extremely important point.

It is an unpleasant surprise for a leader to find themselves off belay unexpectedly.

The kind of scenarios that leads to this unpleasant outcome can be many and varied. Sometimes worse than no communication is mis-communication. Mishearing a signal or mistaking taking another parties calls for your own partners etc.

>It is an unpleasant surprise for a leader to find themselves off belay>unexpectedly.>
Do you have a recent story you want to share with us Rod :-) As The Bard himself said "All's Well That Ends Well"...