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Tuesday, January 06, 2015

A Foregone Conclusion

It's damned-near as certain as the sun settinging in the western sky this afternoon. Jeb Bush wants to move into the Bush family's home at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue - the one that they sublet in 2009. He's not only started his very own political action committee, but he's actually severed his ties to anything and anyone connected with finance and investments.Given the historical and sickening greedof the family Bush - going all the way back to the nineteen-forties (Grandpa Prescott continued to do business with the Nazis when it was forbidden by law to do so) - that move in itself is enough to convince the mightiest of skeptics that John E. "Jeb" Bush (George Dubya's slightly brighter younger brother) is playing for keeps. This is too good to be true. Today is the seventieth anniversary of the marriage of George H.W. and Barbara Bush. What better time for an honest assessment of the Bush brand, ay?

As much damage as that disgusting family has managed to do to this country over a period of nearly half a century, I find it ironic and amazing that any of them can still be taken seriously by anyone. But they are and there's nothing any thinking person can do to alter that grim reality. Let's just roll with the punches.

What will be more amusing than anything (assuming he gets the nomination) will be to watch him desperately trying to convince the country what a disaster Barack Obama has been as chief executive, and how we should go back to the policies that worked so well when his half-witted brother was in charge of things. You'll be so good to recall that in January of 2009, the month George W. Bush mercifully vacated the Executive Mansion, three-quarters-of-a-million jobs were being drained each month from the United States economy. We're now at month number fifty-seven in job growth (Or is it fifty-eight months? To tell you the truth, I've lost count). I don't envy Jeb at all. After all of the destruction they've wrought on the economy, he needs to convince the American people that they were better off under conservative "rule". I don't dare call it "leadership".You can count on both houses of the Republican-controlled congress to try and tank the economy between now and November of 2016 in order to make Jeb's election all-the-more of a sure thing. They don't give a damn about the welfare of the people they're sworn to represent.

Oh, yeah, this is going to be very amusing indeed.

Katherine Harris

There's another reason why Jeb's quest for the presidency is not the gargantuan hurdle you might imagine it to be. After the first debate between Al Gore and Brother Dubya, it was obvious to anyone bothering to pay attention that the First-Fool-to-be was dumber than a sack of moldy rocks. No one was more aware of the hideous little thug's intellectual limitations than Jeb. As governor of Florida, he and his secretary of state, Katherine Harris, devised a scheme that removed 57,000 African Americans from the voting rolls in 2000, It worked. Before all of the votes were counted, Bush was appointed president by a right-wing-dominated Supreme Court. The result was the most incompetent, destructive administration in American history. Remember how sweetly that worked out for you? Then again, maybe you don't. Think.

You forget these cold, hard truths to your own detriment, America. Just thought I'd mention that.

As for me, I'll be perfectly content if, on January 20, 2017, a third President Bush in a generation is tossed the keys to the White House. As I've said more times than I can count, the lower this once-great nation sinks into the ideological cesspool, the higher my stock rises. Vote for Jeb - please.

The biggest obstacle facing Jeb will be the perception problem. It's embarrassingly obvious that he has been planning this run for years. Why do you think he's tried to reposition himself as a moderate since the village idiot of Crawford, Texas left Washington in 2009? When he lived in the Florida governor's mansion, he ran that state under policies that were decidedly to the right of center - in many cases extremely to the right. After the debacle of his brother's reign of error and terror, he must have felt that he needed to moderate himself somewhat. But now that he'll be entering the GOP primaries a year from now, he has to take on positions that are palatable to the crazies who have overtaken the Republican party. If that dilemma weren't funny enough, once he gets the nomination, he has to run like hell back to the political center.

Did I mention how amusing this is going to be?

Hillary Clinton is - at this point anyway - the presumptive 2016
Democratic nominee. There is a very good chance she will be the next
president. I'm not very happy about that possibility. The thought of two Clinton administrations is depressing enough - BUT THREE BUSHES??? That could send the United States into a permanent tailspin - assuming that we're not there already. We need to wake up to the harsh reality that conservatism as a form of governance is unworkable. This is not a new idea I'm peddling here; this is an inarguable, historical truth. It's unfathomable to me that a potential Jeb Bush candidacy is being taken seriously by anyone.

The Brothers Bush are not very different from one another in terms of ideology. They are both hard-line, right wing ideologues who believe that still more tax breaks for the one percent are the best thing for the....well....one percent. Patriarch Pappy Bush once called this scheme "voodoo economics". After the old man was taken on in 1980 as Ronald Reagan's running mate, he got with the program. Since then, he and his sons have cautioned patience. Don't worry, they tell us, the wealth will trickle down to all of you eventually! Thirty five years later, we wait still.

Happy new year, everyone.

Tom Degan Goshen, NY

SUGGESTED VIEWING:

Hijacking Catastrophea film by Robert Greenwald

It's a historical fact: Whenever someone named Bush moves into the White House, a lot of innocent people with brown skin start to die horribly violent deaths. This excellent documentary details with depressing accuracy the incompetence and corruption behind the Bush Mob's illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003. This is the most important documentary to emerge from the Bush years, and so few people have seen it. See it now. Here's a link to watch the film in its entirety on YouTube:

I like how the same people that "warn" us about a "Clinton Dynasty" will run right out and vote for another Bush. Hell, even old Barbara says Jeb running is a bad idea.

I mean, when your own MOTHER doesn't support you...

Still, I find myself wondering what would have happened had Jeb ben selected President instead of Dubya. Woiuld he have allowed Cheney to run the show while he read chidren's books and cut brush in Crawford?

People we have a lot bigger problem with the Ineptocracy than a Plutocracy!

Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy): A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Politicians who pass Bills into Law without reading them and The Occupy protesters are the vanguard of the Ineptocracy movement.

It wasn't the ACA or the Occupy Wall Street movement that crashed the US economy. It was intelligent (but evil) people who sat in the shadows whole figureheads like Bush took the blame for their greed and corruption. And why not? They could just blame it all on the guy who got elected to clean up the mess.

BTW, the Tea Party started out protesting corrupt banking just like OWS, but then the Kochs and Fox news started sponsoring and supporting them and suddenly it was all about taxes. Go figure.

FLASHBACK: Obama: “The Future Must Not Belong To Those Who Slander The Prophet Of Islam”

How many times did President Obama, Secretary of State Clinton, U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice, and Press Secretary Jay Carney publicly blame a You Tube video for the deadly attack on our embassy compound in Benghazi?

According to the folks at Grabien Multimedia, in the two weeks between September 12 and September 26, 2012, the video was blamed no fewer than seven times.

WHat Sore Loser fails to report, is that it turned outthat the movie actually WAS part of the reason the embassy was attacked.

And it was still a "terrorist" action, which Obama mentioned straight away, calling the perpetrators "terrorists". The Preliminary intel said it was partially because of the video, and since the media demanded info IMMEDIATELY (as opposed to waiting until the investigation was complete) that's what was given to them.

Of course, Fox news never admitted or reported this, so Sore Loser would not have seen it.

Once conservatives get something in their heads, no amount of FACTS can get them to let go. For one thing, more people died in embassy attacks under Bush than under Obama.

But why let facts get in the way of a good WHINE, right Sore Loser?

Did you figure out who your congressmen are yet? Ask your Mom, maybe she knows.

How President Obama Sold Out Charlie HebdoJanuary 7, 2015 By Mollie Hemingway

Two years ago, a crude video against Islam was used as pretext by Islamists in various countries for riots and violence. Though that same video had nothing to do with the coordinated attack on U.S. outposts in Benghazi, resulting in the assassination of U.S. ambassador Christopher Stevens and three others, the administration claimed it did. The administration even rewrote talking points to blame an imaginary protest against the video as leading to those deaths.

Not long after, President Barack Obama spoke at the United Nations. Among good things he said, he also had this to say about people who mock Islam, such as the brave, now martyred, journalists at the satirical French publication Charlie Hebdo:

The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.

President Obama claimed that in the U.S., “we reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.” Hillary Clinton said of the U.S. government, “we absolutely reject content and message.”

Except that our country doesn’t reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. In fact, we state quite clearly that we believe everyone has the right to denigrate the religious beliefs of anyone they care to, from Mormon to Methodist to Muslim. And the U.S. government has no business weighing in on videos made by Americans and had no right to try to get Google to pull it down when people objected to it.

Charlie Hebdo brutally mocked Christians as well as Muslims. Because they made fun of Islam’s prophet, 10 journalists lost their lives. Many more are wounded.

The problem of such cowardly rhetoric in the face of Islamist violence certainly didn’t begin with President Obama and Hillary Clinton but they should be called to account for their tepid defense of free speech and freedom of the press."

Distraction from what, Dumbya?

Site your sources for your claim "that it turned outthat the movie actually WAS part of the reason the embassy was attacked", Mofart.

I'll cite my sources (every news entity except Fox) when you tell us who your congressmen are and admit you didn't know the senate was part of congress.

Bring us some sources other than ultra right wing sites like "The Federalist". You didn't even have the balls to cite YOUR source, other than the author, who was easily Googled and exposed as a uber conservative nutcase.

There is an upside. At least I get an hour of my life back, seeing as I don't have to go to the polls to vote for POTUS... again. I will no longer vote for unworthy candidates. Which means I may never have to vote again.

Personally I think ALL religions should be outlawed. All this trouble (not to mention religious fruitloops persecuting Gays and women here)because of mythology and superstition. You'd think by the 21st century we'd be past all that, but NOOOOOO...

Mofart,Words cans can not full express the disdain I hold for your positions and your fetish about wanting to know who are my congressmen.I can only surmise therefore, that since you are unwilling to support you claims with your sources that eitherA. You have no sources and simply make up your claims.B. You are afraid that by revealing your sources, that your extent of your Progressive Radicalism would be exposed to all.

Why do I need to tell you who my congressmen are, if you are smart enough find out my sources, it would seem you would be smart enough to figure out who are my congressmen.Why do you need this information?zIs there a 12 step program where you live that can with your type of addiction? Maybe out patient care?

BTW, using an ad hominem discrediting a person's source is typical of a Radical Progressive.

If Jeb gets the nod I will not vote for him. I will vote for the candidate closest to a classical liberal in their positions.

Sore Loser (Anonymous), you asked me who my congressmen were and I told you straight away. I ask you and in return you hide and insult. You actually used the excuse (I don't want Mozart to come find me". Trust me, you don't matter that much. I have a life.

And you never gave a source for your silly copy and paste job. You hid that too. You gave an alleged author. You were hoping that like most conservatives we would not research and check your story.

And I gave you my sources. Every major news outlet. Only Fox kept that part quiet, so no wonder you never heard it.

Jeez man, they just blew up a newspaper over a cartoon, you don't think that movie inspired a reaction from these people?

I was going to ask if you were really that stupid, but your posts pretty much make that clear to all.

What I find entertaining is your mock outrage over what I say about you. I guess the truth hurts.

And go ahead and vote for Jeb Bush, and if he should get in the White House and the economy collapses again, as it surely will, don't blame us Liberals.

Actually, "all this trouble" (Charlie Hebdo) came because a handful of passive-aggressive, sophomoric, post-moderns who fancied themselves as having something constructive to say (they don't) through offensive, biting satire kept poking at a hornets' nest and finally got stung. They were foolish.

So, Mozart, it would be okay to discriminate against and persecute a person because of a religious belief? But not for beliefs on human sexuality? Please explain. I am legit, remember...I did tell you who my Congressmen are.

Sore Loser, you need to straighten up and tell this man who your Congressmen are, for crying out loud. Mozart has his standards. Do you think you're a special case?

To be clear, Islam is fair game for critique (goodness knows I'm no fan). But, the way you engage is important. Charlie Hebdo and those like them do not engage in the right way.

And, to be clear, the satirists did not deserve to die. What the bloodthirsty, evil radicals did was wrong on all accounts. But, it is naïve to think the writers had no idea how inflammatory and dangerous their stuff was. They'd already had several "shots across the bow".

And, I do agree with what Obama said. We shouldn't be about ridiculing people's religious beliefs. We can disagree but there's no need to do it so distastefully. It is a symptom of a culture devoid of decorum and gentility.

Are you saying we should suspend our Bill of Rights in order to not offend Muslims?

What movie caused 9/11?

Oh wait, that was an inside job by GWB. I forgot.

How far down the road of appeasement do you think we should go to prevent upsetting the followers of the "religion of peace"?

End our support of Israel?Pull our troops out of Afghanistan?Pull our troops out of Iraq?President make speech at UN declaring Islam needs to be respected?Claim Islam is woven within the "very" fabric of America?Make it a "top priority' of NASA to reach out to the Muslim world? Change our current judicial system for Shara Law?Call the killings by Muslims in the USA, "workplace violence"?Allow slavery as it allowed in the Koran?Look the other way when honor killings take place?Follow the Prophet's example and marry nine year girls AFTER rapping them?Open our southern borders to invasion by anyone?

Just want to get an idea of your atheist standards on Islam.

Harley,

If for nothing else than to stop the indecent childlike whining of Mofart,here it is the information that he has been crying about.I hope he sleeps better at night. I hope you do as well.

Senators Blunt and McCaskill.Representative Wagner.

I reject his claim that I do not provide my sources, I do, he just doesn't like them. I reject out of hand his claim that he reads five newspapers a day as at best an exaggeration of the truth, at worst, a boldface lie. For the record, I don't listen to Beck, and rarely to Limbaugh. I reject put of hand the Radical Progressive predisposition that in order to have an legitimate position on an issue I must use the news source HE deems as acceptable. I will not allow him to frame the debate.

Let's see if this stops his use of the ad hominem.Let's see if this lowers the rate of 52% of all murders in the USA being committed by blacks to 50%.And before he starts making claims that the GOP in MO stopped the effectiveness of the ACA here, he should note that Missouri put before the voters how THEY wanted the ACA to be handled in their state.

In 2010 "Deny the government authority to penalize citizens for refusing to purchase private health insurance or infringe upon the right to offer or accept direct payment for lawful healthcare services." Passed

In 2012 "Prohibit a state-based health exchange." PassedBoth passed by the voters of the State of Missouri.

Now let's see what he does with this information, what his next beef will be.

The people at the paper did not "have it coming", and I admire the fact that they refused to be intimidated by these wastes of human skin. Kudos to them.

And we should, as a show of logic and intelligence, ridicule ALL religious beliefs and continue to do so until ALL that nonsense ends. The entire issue of terrorism at this point is over religion. ALL the nonsense over persecuting Gays is based on religion. The terrorist actions against women's clinics in this country is over RELIGION. It's bullshit and it has to stop. This is the 21st century for crying t loud! Why are we still letting mythology and superstition run our lives? We need to start living in the REAL WORLD and stop obsessing on some ridiculous promise of an "afterlife" from a father figure for which there is no evidence of it's existence. We are committing mass murder over Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny and it has to stop.

And yes, the worship of guns in this country is part of the problem. Keep the guns, but PLEASE stop acting like they are the solution to all your problems.

Did I mention any of those people? They thought THEY were the "deity" how about that?

Besides, we didn't REALLY care about those people because no OIL was involved.

I'm taling about todays religious extremists. You know "Mooslims" and all the fruitloops in THIS country who are so "pro life" and "Christian" they have to blow up women's clinics and persecute Homosexuals.

Please try and keep your eye on the ball, you sound like Sore Loser (Anonymous)

"I'm taling about todays religious extremists. You know "Mooslims" and all the fruitloops in THIS country who are so "pro life" and "Christian" they have to blow up women's clinics and persecute Homosexuals."

Ok, you're getting closer. Provide me the examples of the mass terrorism on women's clinics and mass persecution of homosexuals by the fruitloops.

And, no you didn't mention the tens of millions slaughtered by atheistic regimes - you know the ones who determined they would stamp out religion in the name of humanism.

Harley, notice I said " The entire issue of terrorism AT THIS POINT is over religion.

Get it? You can bring up every example of mass murder back to the freaking big bang, and it will still be irrelevant TO THE TERRORISTS OF TODAY which was what I'm talking about.

Stop being such a "Sore Loser" by bringing irrelevant issues in to defend your position. Muslim extremists are RELIGIOUS. The people persecuting Gays and denying women healthcare are RELIGIOUS. THE COWARDS WHO JUST COMMITTED COLD BLOODED MURDER IN FRANCE DID IT OVER RELIGION.

As for Sore Loser (Anonymous) wanting MY sources, he can go pound sand until he tells us who his congressmen are. In fact , he can piss off anyway. He's proven he's nothing but a troll.

No fumble here. I score home runs with nearly every post. Your obsession with the irrelevant proves it.

How am I a "radical" since I speak for the VAST majority of Americans who are sick of corporations and the uber rich taking over the country, and I can safely say even the vast majority of Christians in this country do not approve of killing Doctors and denying women proper healthcare.

Ok, Mozart, I'm beginning to understand your flawed and illogical premise better now. And, I chuckle when you attempt to regain control of the debate by declaring my statements irrelevant.

For you, history is conveniently irrelevant when it doesn't square with your worldview. You think you should be casually allowed to say that personally you think ALL religions should be outlawed. Then buckle under the challenge - when I present you one example of a time in history when that very concept was part of the socio-political fabric of a major world movement less than a century ago. Hardly irrelevant.

As for this statement...

"...and I can safely say even the vast majority of Christians in this country do not approve of killing Doctors and denying women proper healthcare."

I agree. Nor do most Christians desire to hate or do harm to homosexuals, though we do not agree with the lifestyle and believe it to be against nature and nature's God.

Furthermore, MUCH (if not the vast majority) of the charity in this world would vaporize immediately if not for the Christian church. That is undeniable.

Harley, ALL religion should go. Islam is just a few hunderd years behind Christianity for abuse of humanb life. And Sore Asshole, an embryo is NOT a human being. Proof?

Try freezing a baby. Besides, you don't give a shit about the children already born, why should we believe you when you claim to care about the unborn. You are just another conservative hypocrite, using women's rights as a political tool. Stop voting for people that take food away from hungry children, then tell us how "pro life" you are.

Are fertility clinics (which destroy tens of thousands of embryos per year) "Natural"?

Get rid of conservative policies and we wouldn't NEED so much "Charity", and besides, if people are only giving to charity because they are looking for eternal paradise or avoiding eternal suffering, then they are shithead who can keep their meager contribution. The Vatican is a pretty fancy place, and how much to build a Cathedral that could go to feed the hungry? Ever see the Mormon Temple? They spent over 7 million last year alone lobbying against same sex marriage. Done even get me started on the Westborough mob. PLus, Sore Asshole has no respect for Christians. I give you all his WHINING about Al Sharpton.

Mozart, in your worldview, you get exactly the same result if you freeze either, only the mass of biological tissue is larger (and the genetic information has more fully developed) in the case of the baby. Your assignment of more (or any) value to the baby is purely arbitrary... in your worldview as you have thus far presented it. On what basis do you assign more (or any) value to the baby. The baby is no more or less a material accident of evolution than the embryo.

Believe what you want, but you should at least be logically coherent. You borrow moral and teleological capital from a bank you aren't a member of...

Or perhaps your worldview is more nuanced, in which case I'd like to hear more...

Harley, your response proves my point. Thank you. An embryo is not developed enough to be considered a "person". Evolution has nothing to do with it. What id still true is that one can freeze an embryo for long periods of time with no advr=erse effects. Freeze a living breathing baby for a year and then thaw them out. See what happens. Flawless logic.

Maybe we should try it with Sore Loser and see what happens. Given HIS current state of development we'll probably see no difference.

And keep uysing useless words like "worldview". It makes as much sense as "lifestyle" or stupid Republican catchphrases like "Family values". They don't really MEAN anything, but they do make you SOUND intelligent, that is, unless one really thinks about them.

Kind of like religion. SOUNDS good, until one THINKS. Maybe that's why conservatives have embraced Christianity. Like all religion it SOUNDS good, until one THINKS about it a bit, at which time it falls apart. Religious people make good followers, which make them prime candidates for conservative voters.

Ok, Mozart, good. We're getting somewhere. Now you've used a fancy word without even knowing it. You used the word "person". At some point, the "blob of cells" magically becomes identified as a person - with value, meaning, and rights. Why should you or I have any value or meaning or rights? On what basis? That's the real question.

Sorry to appear intelligent using Republican words like "worldview". I'll try to stop that... I know it bugs you.

Mozart, follow up and corollary to the argument to help frame it... what about a tomato plant?

If I freeze it for a year and thaw it out, it is adversely affected. It dies. Though its seed is viable still a year later. So, after it sprouts in my garden in May, should I then consider it a person? Since it has fully developed from its genetic material (which, by the way, by all accounts is related in eons past to the genetic material for the baby) and will die if I freeze it?

So, are tomato plants people, then? If not, why not?

Or, is there more to the personhood test than the freeze test, I'm guessing?

“These are progressive values. These are America’s values.These values play out every day. These values are what we’re willing to fight for.We believe that Wall Street needs stronger rules and tougher enforcement, and we’re willing to fight for it.We believe no one should work full-time and live in poverty, and that means raising the minimum wage – and we’re willing to fight for it.We believe people should retire with dignity, and that means strengthening Social Security – and we’re willing to fight for it.We believe that a kid should have a chance to go to college without getting crushed by debt – and we’re willing to fight for it.We believe workers have a right to come together, to bargain together and to rebuild America’s middle class – and we’re willing to fight for it.We believe in equal pay for equal work – and we’re willing to fight for it.We believe equal means equal, and that’s true in the workplace and in marriage, true for all our families – and we’re winning that fight right now.We – the people – decide the future of this country.These are our shared values. And we are willing to fight for them.This is our fight!"

It's called projection. THEY are radicals out to destroy government of, by and for the people.

The neo-liberal corporatocracy is winning.

Warren adds:

"“Throughout our history, powerful interests have tried to capture Washington and rig the system in their favor. From tax policy to retirement security, the voices of hard-working people get drowned out by powerful industries and well-financed front groups. Those with power fight to make sure that every rule tilts in their favor. Everyone else just gets left behind.”

“Our college kids are getting crushed by student loan debt. We need to rebuild our roads and bridges and upgrade our power grids. We need more investment in medical research and scientific research. But instead of building a future, this country is bleeding billions of dollars in tax loopholes and subsidies that go to rich and profitable corporations. Many Fortune 500 companies, profitable companies, pay zero in taxes. Billionaires get so many tax loopholes that they pay lower tax rates than their secretaries. But they have lobbyists – and their Republican friends – to protect every loophole and every privilege. The game is rigged – and it’s not right!”

83% oppose reducing Social Security benefits in order to reduce the nation’s budget deficit.“Over two thirds of Americans agree that the government has a role in providing a safety net for their personal financial security, including Social Security, Medicare, and protection from fraud.” Voters overwhelmingly approve of raising the cap on Social Security wages above $106,000 (71% in favor, 21% oppose).64% oppose spending cuts to Social Security.70 percent of Americans say “Medicare should continue as it is today, with the government guaranteeing seniors health insurance and making sure that everyone gets the same defined set of benefits.”76% think government has the responsibility to provide health care coverage to the elderly.76% support increasing the taxes paid by people who make more than one million dollars a year.81% support the rights of workers to unionize to negotiate with their employers.67% support the rights of state employees to unionize

More terrifying to the lunatic fringe is the fact their demonizing is backfiring:

Boys and Girls, quiet please! Let's focus, shall we? Shitty economy "getting better", race relations at the lowest point since the 1950's, crazy nutsy-koo-koo Islamic extremists running amok across the globe, political corruption beyond our wildest imagination and Bruce Jenner is transitioning to a woman. Holy shit, Batman! The normal people of the nation need to focus on a project; get 'er done and move on to the next. The current rulers like division and distraction. It's good for business, wink,wink. maybe we can smoke a fat one and rap about this with some input on solutions that are not politically based? You know, where the solutions are not based on winning the next election cycle. -From Tom's Conservative Freind in Upstate

Sore Loser, there is a logical answer to that question, and I'll tell you as soon as you answer MY question. "WHO ARE YOUR CONGRESSMEN?

Until you answer that simple (which I answered for you) I'll be glad to tell you what you should already know.

Harley, NO ONE is forcing a woman to spend 9 months of her life (and sometimes risk her health) to make sure a tomato no one wanted (and no one will love) can live to be neglected by the very people that demand it live in the first place.

And your words are not beyond me, they just don't really MEAN anything. However. "Person" has meaning. It's what has been removed from BUSINESS. "PERSONell" Has changed to "Human resource".

And when you decide that actual, living breathing FEELING children are important enough to proetect as much as the blobs of cells you defend, I'll be glad to explain more simple concepts to you. But as long as you support those who take food away from these children, and deny them and thioer mothers proper healthcare, we have nothing to discuss. You are a HYPOCRITE. But then, you are a conservative, so that goes without saying.

"NO ONE is forcing a woman to spend 9 months of her life (and sometimes risk her health) to make sure a tomato no one wanted (and no one will love) can live to be neglected by the very people that demand it live in the first place."

That has zero to do with the question. I am not arguing the issue of abortion. I'm asking you what makes any of us of any more worth than a tomato plant? Why call yourself a person? What distinguishes you as a person? Over a tomato plant. On what basis do you assign value to human life? YOU were the one that began by defining "human being" for us. All I'm asking is for the basis for your definition.

Your frustration is obvious. I never said my words were beyond you. Interesting you infer it and defend against the point that was not made.

Finally, you call me a hypocrite, yet you do not know me. You have no idea who I support or what I support. I treat you rather politely I think and don't pretend I know more about you than I do. I question and challenge your ideas and your statements. I have not called you names or attacked your character.

Mofart,Who does your posts for you during the hours of 8am to 6pm?Using your atheist values Mozart, when is the last possible moment should an abortion be allowed to be performed? Who and where are people taking food away from children? Cuba? N. Korea?What would be improper health care Mofart?Site your sources for your claim "that it turned out that the movie actually WAS part of the reason the embassy was attacked".

Because I want to know the answers these questions that I've asked you and because I'm really getting tired of you stomping your little feet and holding your breath, and whining like spoiled brat who expects people to do as he says, and because I want to remove your excuse for not answering my questions,Here are those who represent me in Congress.

BluntMcCaskillWagner

"go ahead vote for Jeb Bush." Mofart, if you would removed your head from your ass, you would see my post said I would NOT vote for Jeb Bush. Typical. Typical.

Let's see what you do now, the dullest pencil in the box.

Caprice.You got a problem with Rachel's sexuality, what ever it is? I don't.

Dumbya,Have you looked into the NAACP bomb story lately? You mighty want to do that and rethink your story.

I hope that E. Warren gets the DNC nomination for President, they we can ask her, who's gonna pay for all the free stuff?

I'm not condescending. I'm asking real questions. These are real questions that philosophers have grappled with for centuries. Your inability to answer the questions with satisfying answers isn't my fault. But, someone who makes sweeping statements like "all religion should be outlawed" and "there is zero evidence for a god" out to have some fairly well thought out responses to the existential questions of life. Because both of those statements fly in the face of the vast majority of humanity and the human condition. The vast majority of even modern people on the planet do not agree with you.

However, you seem unable to understand or come to grips with the fact that your worldview (sorry, I can't find a Democrat word to replace that) cannot offer a satisfactory answer to this... Why do human beings (as one particular arrangement of matter) carry any more value than a tomato plant that, by no means other than pure chance, is simply another particular arrangement of matter.

Somewhere, there must be a distinction. You seem to make one. A brain is nothing more than a piece of the human's accidental arrangement of matter. No purpose, no reason, no design involved - merely a cosmic accident of time and chance. An insignificant pimple in the universe and entirely meaningless. For you to apply value to humans or any meaning to what we do or do not make absolutely no sense, given your premise.

Now, I'm not delusional. I don't expect any answers from you - and fully expect more of the same. You do not offer answers. You resort to the defensive tactic of distraction by calling me a hypocrite, though you have no ground to since you don't know me. Or calling me condescending, though I'm not. You may feel condescended to, but not because of how I'm treating you.

I wonder if Tom just makes up the characters here to provoke arguments. Dave Dubya is my favorite of Tom's characters. He spews the latest DNC talking points and drinks the progressive kool-aid to the last drop.

The liberals are saying Obama is responsible for the lowering of gas prices now lol lol. Even though his liberal environmental NAZI wing originally tried to drive the price of fossil fuels so high to make "green energy" more attractive, and make poor people pay more to heat their homes in the frigid winter (lots of global warming in the country today lol lol). Thank God John Galt and his followers in what's left of the "free markets" in the private sector managed to increase oil production with lower costs through fracking on private lands. Oil would be even lower if King Barry allowed oil drilling on federal lands.

Also the King Barry supporters are bragging about lower unemployment when the labor participation rate is the lowest in 50 years. Why work mother fuckers when you can fake illness and get Social Secrurity Disablilty payments? Its the new liberal culture, let someone else go work and pay your way.

This is what can't penetrate the indoctrinated brain of the Radical Right Bubble Cult:

The far Right lives in fear of the "radicals" they demonize and hate.

Except for the inconvenient fact those people are the majority.

Poll after poll shows:

83% oppose reducing Social Security benefits in order to reduce the nation’s budget deficit.“Over two thirds of Americans agree that the government has a role in providing a safety net for their personal financial security, including Social Security, Medicare, and protection from fraud.”Voters overwhelmingly approve of raising the cap on Social Security wages above $106,000 (71% in favor, 21% oppose).64% oppose spending cuts to Social Security.70 percent of Americans say “Medicare should continue as it is today, with the government guaranteeing seniors health insurance and making sure that everyone gets the same defined set of benefits.”76% think government has the responsibility to provide health care coverage to the elderly.76% support increasing the taxes paid by people who make more than one million dollars a year.81% support the rights of workers to unionize to negotiate with their employers.67% support the rights of state employees to unionize

More terrifying to the lunatic fringe is the fact their demonizing is backfiring:

Sore Loser, Maddow is obviously female, stop being such a well..."sore asshole".

Harley, way to blame the victim in a horrendous crime, just like Sore Asshole blames the UNARMED Black men (and one child) killed by overzealous (and probably racist) police in recent days.

Also, you should know very well why "they" are but given Fox News coverage of the TERRORIST actions in France, maybe you haven't heard. The French Police took care of the onse who did id and Fox is blaming Obama for not starting WWIII.

Go take a college course on biology and evolution if you can't tell the difference between a human and a tomato. If all you do is hang around conservatives and watch Fox news I can understand your confusion, but even a 5 year old can tell the difference.

Sore Loser, I'll answer your questions when you answer mine. So far you have been too much of a coward.

As for "SS disability" do you REALLY want oil rigs in Grand canyon? There are more refineries running under Obama than under Bush. WE DON'T NEED FRACKING. (Unless you enjoy flame coming from your kitchen faucet)Maybe it's time we set aside 19th century technology and started setting an example for the world in Solar and wind, which are still older ideas, but more modern that petrolium. They'd be viable and cheap NOW if the oil companies would allow it.

Gotta love people who find ANY excuse to critisize success, like low unemployment and record job growth. If things are so bad, why is Mitch McConnel taking credit for the improvements?

Sore Loser, thanks but I'd rather not click on the link you provided, a place called "weasel zipper" that claims to "debunk" the events at the Colorado Springs NAACP. Quite frankly, I'm concerned I'd pick up a computer virus.

The links you provide are consistently radical crackpot fringe websites.

You should stand by your statements, though, rather than backtracking and faking innocence. Embrace your bigotry. Own it. If you say "Rachel (whatever IT is, a boy or a girl) Maddow" don't come back later and say you have no problem with her sexuality.

If I had a lesbian next door neighbor, and in conversation I referred to her as IT and admitted I didn't know if IT was a boy or girl, I doubt people would assume I was being polite.

"Destroying culture". Yeah, like the "Christians" who blame the victims.

On his radio program today, Bryan Fischer speculated that the attack by radical Muslim terrorists on the French magazine Charlie Hebdo that killed twelve people may have been God's retribution for the magazine's blasphemy.

Given that the magazine, in addition to mocking Islam and Muhammad, also had a long record of running satirical articles and cartoons about Christianity and Jesus, Fischer raised the possibility that this attack was punishment for the magazine's repeated violation of the commandment that "you shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain."

Left-wing comedian Bill Maher ripped into his own liberal “tribe” in the wake of Wednesday’s Islamist massacre in Paris, accusing them of turning America into a “pussy nation” through their refusal to highlight Islam’s illiberalism.

Maher appeared Wednesday night on ABC’s Jimmy Kimmel Live to discuss the slaughter, which saw twelve Parisians killed in a revenge attack on satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo after it ran cartoons mocking the Islamic prophet Mohammed.

“We have to not avoid who did this,” Maher began. “Who did this, Jimmy?”

“Well, we presume —” Kimmel said uncomfortably.

“No, it’s not a presume!” Maher said. “It’s Muslim terrorists. This happens way too frequently. It’s like Groundhog Day, except if the groundhog kept getting his head cut off.”

The comedian asked his fellow liberals to “turn to the truth” regarding Islam. “To be a liberal, you have to stand up for liberal principles,” he said. “It’s not my fault that the part of the world that is most against liberal principles is the Muslim part of the world.”

Maher made the connection between the attack on Charlie Hebdo and the North Korean regime’s cyber-attack on Sony over the film The Interview, with Kimmel saying how disappointed he was in the response of those who said Hollywood should stop making movies satirizing sensitive regimes.

“Pussy nation,” Maher responded simply. “We have to stop saying, when something like this that happens in Paris today we have to stop saying, ‘Well, we should not insult a great religion’ . . . We should insult them. And we should be able to insult whatever we want. That is what free speech is like.”

It's okay if you (Christians) don't want to feed the hungry, heal the sick or house the homeless. Just don't say you're doing it for their own good. Don't say you'd like to help people, but your hands are tied, because if you did it would cause a culture of dependency, or go against the Bible, or worst of all, rob them of their freedom to be sick and hungry.

Just admit you're selfish.

The fact that 60% of adult Americans believe that the story of Noah is literally true is proof enough that this is a stupid country.

It's about a psychotic mass murderer who gets away with it, and his name is God.

What kind of tyrant punishes everyone just to get back at the few he's mad at? I mean, besides Chris Christie.

Hey, God, you know you're kind of a dick when you're in a movie with Russell Crowe and you're the one with anger issues.

You know conservatives are always going on about how Americans are losing their values and their morality, well maybe it's because you worship a guy who drowns babies.

If we were a dog and God owned us, the cops would come and take us away.

However, that does does not necessarily translate into a desire for a more expansive and interventionist government.

Government does a few things fairly well (the military, building and providing some public goods) but most things poorly.

All you need to do is compare the experience of going to the DMV or interacting with the TSA to going into an Apple store and buying a MacBook.

Social Security and Medicare are wildly popular in no small part because they are large entitlements that are spectacularly underfunded. They are progressing to the point that the number of people working to fund these programs will be too small to fund those living off these programs and they are basically government approved Ponzi schemes. In 1940, there were 42 workers per retiree. In 1950, the ratio was 16-to-1. In 2010, there were 2.8 workers per retiree, and within 40 years, it’s projected that there will be just two workers per retiree. At the present rate, as the population ages and life expectancies continue to rise, the system will not be able to sustain itself into the future without major reform.

People like "free" stuff, until it isn't free.

The best government programs are simple and immediately funded like food stamps.

Just because Americans aren't happy with our government doesn't mean we want a dozen versions of Obamacare, for all that ails us, modified with band-aids by a perpetual Imperial Presidency.

All you need to do is compare the experience of going to the DMV or interacting with the TSA to going into an Apple store and buying a MacBook.

Actually, my last several visits to the DMZ went smoothly. Everyone was very competent, and it didn't take long at all. I paid with credit card and was pleased with the experience.

Last year I visited an apple store, and my experience was just the opposite. Some employees were rude, some were merely incompetent. I finally made a purchase, and they had difficulty processing my payment. It was excruciating. Every step along the way was like pulling teeth.

I dont think it is your place to pass judgment on what a persons sex is, by their looks Mofart. Rachel may just want to look like a female but really may be something else. I guess that makes you a homophobic hate filled bigot, trying to paint Rachel into a sexual corner. What if Rachel wants to later change her sex from what ever it is now to something else? Would you deny that freedom to Rachel? Or would you be will9ng to contribute some of your earnings towards the cost of the operation?

Mofart, you have done just as I thought you would do, as you have odne in the past:lie!lie!lie!"Sore Loser, I'll answer your questions when you answer mine." It used to be I'm not answering your question until you tell me who your Congressmen are. Typical Radical Progressive Tactic, lie, lie lie. Always want a little more from the other person. I told you want you wanted at 11:25 AM. At 3:59 PM you were still asking me for the information. You are the dullest pencil the box, still. Do you see Harley, why I said you can't compromise with Radical Progressives?Their word means nothing. Their standard for values is based on what is the most political expedient. No lie is too big to be told in their war against classic liberalism. Big Government is their God.Abortion is their sacrament, to which they have sacrificed 56 million American babes while they were still in their mother womb. There is no limit to the hate they feel towards those who would go against their God and its sacrament. They make Islamic Extremists look as dangerous as a retired librarian.

Caprice,

How do you know that the links I provided would give you a computer virus?If you had the guts to think outside the liberal box, you would have seen the pictures showed the NAACP "bomb" was actual against wall of a barber shop. Further you would have seen that Google photos of the barber shop wall from this past fall had the same damage then that is now being claimed to be recent. BUT, we cant let that detail get into the way of the America is racist story, can we? And you call me a radical crackpot!

As far as Rachel, I dont care what sex Rachel claims to be or wants to be, it's none of my business. I dont care if Rachel is a lesbian woman or a gay male, or if Rachel is a straight women or straight male, or bi-woman or bi male. I never said Rachel was a lesbian, I said I couldn't tell what Rachel's sex was. If I had said Rachel was a man, would you have been unhappy?I'm a straight male lesbian, is that ok or is that homophobic? Is that forbidden by the sex police of the Radical progressives?

Then there is transgender, since I do not know what hell that is, I'll wait until IT becomes the next big thing of the Radical Progressives and it will all be explained. Ta-Da!

As Sore Asshole stuffs those annual statements or tax returns up where he does his thinking, read the list of some of the vilest war profiteers and murderous thugs in “The Bush administration’s ties to Blackwater “

Proof Dumbya or it's just another one of your urban Radical Progressive legends(a.k.a LIES). Like 9/11 was an inside job. Or Bush senior flew to Paris in a Blackbird?

Quoting from Salon I see, "everybody" knows that internet rag is just a mouth piece for the Radical Progressive movement. Almost as disgusting as the anti Classical Liberal MSNBC! You know the cable news network with the LOWEST ratings that's leaning forward to the LEFT, yet you claim your point of view is supported by vast majority of those polled.Sure those in your poll are the 501 viewers of the Rev Al show.HA!I'd check Salon out but am afraid I might get a computer virus.HA!

MofartLook baby brains, I answered your frigging question. I thought you knew how to read. You really are not the sharpest pencil in the box are you? Are all Radical Progressives as stupid as you? Or are you just the best they have to offer? Maybe you are on the JV team? Third shift?

I'll type this real slow so you can understand.

BluntMcCaskillWagner

Should I repeat that for you, you lying idiot? Ok.Here are those who represent me in Congress.

BluntMcCaskillWagner

Got it yet, oh worshiper of Big Government, partaker in the unholy sacrament of the ABORTION OF 56 MILLION HUMANS in their mothers womb and calling it WOMEN'S HEALTH CARE!

You disgust me.

P.S.Raoul Castro Still Hasn’t Released 53 Political Prisoners As Promised In Deal With Obama.

Stop your whining.I only had to tell you three times before you could comprehend.Not bad for the dullest pencil in the box.

"Everyone knows Haliburton got billion dollar NO BID contracts from the gov't."Tell me names of the other company's that could do what the contract require?In other words, (and I'm typing REAL slow for you) who else should have gotten the contract?Bet you never thought of that did you? Not surprised since MSNBC IS your favorite source of the news.

It might interest sore loser to learn that Halliburton subcontracted out most of the sweetheart deals it got. The result was the disappearance of billions of dollars and substandard work or no work at all.

"Oh, really? Prove it! Otherwise it's a Radical Right LIE! I bet he lives in Connecticut. Let's see if he can prove me wrong."

Maybe he is from Michigan, a state that breeds Poverty (no matter how much is spent on that endless War On Poverty) and where unions and corrupt Democratic Politicans drove Detroit to third world status. Just Say'n.

Sore Loser, maybe had there been actualk bids like the law requires we'd find out who could have domne those jobs. Besides, from what I was told by soldiers who were THERE and by articles in Time, Newsweek, and yes even Rolling Stone, the work Haliburton did could have been done better by a bunch of high school kids in a shop class. The rebuilt police station in Baghdad had human waste in the light fixtures from badly installed pipes. The walls were barely standing. SOOMETIMES the electricity worked.

plus, who do you think built the man made islands in Dubai? HALIBURTON, USING AMERICAN EQUIPMENT MEANT FOR IRAQ. I know this because my neighbor was on the US military crew that protected the trucks that hauled the gear.

Sore Loser is either lying about not knowing these things, or he proves beyond a doubt that Fox news viewers are the least informed in the country.

The only problem with James Hansens statement is that Michigan is run by REPUBLICANS.

The Mayor can only work with what the Govornor allows.

It wasn't the unions, it was the Auto industry caving to the oil corporations refusal to make small fuel efficient cars. Thus, they were put out of business by the Japanese, who don't have to be loyal to EXXON/Mobil.

At least you finally understood where I was headed. EXACTLY. I was trying to show how humans and tomatoes are exactly the same. Your ability to follow an argument, dissect it, and crystallize it to its essence is impressive.

A Rasmussen poll released Sunday shows that 65 percent of Americans believe it is at least somewhat likely that an attack “on those critical of Islam” in the U.S. will occur over the next year. Just 26 percent said such an attack is not likely, the survey shows.

Harley, I can see why you'd hate Bull Maher, he exposes the moronic hypocricy of the right and will not be cowed by pressure or money to stop. He critisizes the left as well, but it SEEMS like he's being unfair simply because the left is not as batshit nuts as the right.

Speaking of "batshit" if you think tomatoes and humans are the same, you need to stop whining on this site and get some meds, after which a high scjool biology course would be in order. I've seen some wild defenses of forcing women to be brood mares, but tTHAT one is worthy of Sore loser for "being "off the grid".

You said: "The mythology of the uncaring right wing fundamentalist is a caricature."

But earlier in the thread, in response to Mofart (as an intellectual on this board refers to him) you said:"Also, feel free to ban Islam, Mozart. The world would lose NOTHING culturally and would gain a measure of peace. No argument from me there..."

Sore Loser, you are sore at our President for not traveling to France. Really? If he had made the trip, intellectual giants like Michelle Bachmann would have criticized him for spending two billion dollars a day on travel expenses. Remember how unhappy she was with his trip to Mumbai?

His hate is open and clear, just as the lack of effort in engaging in fair discourse.

He has been insulting, mocking and scornful of what he thinks is my profession. He has personalized his attacks due to his lack of ability to debate or discuss reasonably.

Sore Asshole is what he is.

Look at his first comment in this thread.

Now about those special "Christians".

If Christians cannot stand against torture — the very tool used to kill Jesus — what do they stand for?

Sixty nine percent of white evangelicals believe the CIA treatment was justified, compared to just 20% who said it was not. A full three-quarters (75%) of white non-evangelical Protestants outnumber the 22% of their brethren in saying CIA treatment was justified. White Catholics believe the treatment was justified by a 66-23% margin. But a majority of non-religious adults, 53%, believe the CIA actions were not justified, with 41% of the non-religious saying the treatment was justified.

“Hang the traitor!”“Hang the lying Kenyan traitor!”“We’ve got rope.”“Plenty of trees in the front yard, wouldn’t be the first one hung on one of them trees.”“Whatever happened to those good ol’ days?”“Don’t snap his neck, you watch him choke to death.”“He’s just biding his time until Satan takes him home to where he belongs.”

You said: "The mythology of the uncaring right wing fundamentalist is a caricature."

But earlier in the thread, in response to Mofart (as an intellectual on this board refers to him) you said:"Also, feel free to ban Islam, Mozart. The world would lose NOTHING culturally and would gain a measure of peace. No argument from me there..."

I did, yes.

One was a very literal statement (the former), one was rhetorical (the latter). There's a big difference. Unless, of course, you believe that I assume Mozart has the power to ban Islam. I write for the average college educated person.

Stop whining.Rally calling for the lynching of Obama, why that's almost as bad as the movie about the assassination of GWB. Or did Salon not report that?

Caprice,Just reported what various news sources said or didn't say about the non-Obama trip.Draw your own conclusions and your own excuses as to why some reported it and others did not.You think the reason Obama didn't join the 40 other world leaders in unity against Islamic terrorism is because he was afraid he would be criticized for going by the GOP?Really?

Mozart,56 Million humans being murdered isn't a problem as long as you remove their humanity. Hitler removed the humanity of his victims which enabled his followers to murder them with the same feelings as they would have had if they were murdering tomatoes. (Slavs were sub humans)Same applies to your argument, claiming abortion does not kill a human. Abortion prevents women from becoming Brood Mares? Are you serious?

At least have the intellectual honesty to admit that while abortion kills a human, you are ok with that because you believe the murder benefits the greater good of society.

Sore Loser, do you approve of fertikity clinics? MANY conservatives use them even though they destroy tens of thousands of embryoes per year.

Plus, if amortion is murder, then miscarraige is invoulantary manslaughter. Simnple logic, no way around that.

Personally I'd put a limit on abortion, like 6 weeks, unless the mother's life is in danger or it's the result of rape.

And since we are talking about it, are YOU (Sore Loser) willing to take in all the unwanted babies you claim to support, as well as pay the mother's medical bills?

NO? Then shut up.

Want fewer abortions? How about allowing women access to birth control and REAL sex education? Meaning it should be covered in insurance plans like Viagra and penis pumps are.

Do you thnk that if yououtlaw abortin it will end? Of course it won't. Your daughter, wife, sisiter, mother, etc. will just go see "Dr. Coathanger" in a trailer park someplace like they did before Roe v. Wade.

You are not "Pro Life". If you were, you wouldn't support war, capital punishment, etc. You are just following what hypoctitical religious fruitloops tell you to follow, but clearly you have not thought this through.

The result is simple: more and more doctors are simply not accepting Medicaid patients and/or dropping the ones they already have.

And before you call those doctors greedy or evil, consider the alternative: Most private-practice doctors literally care for Medicaid patients at a personal financial loss. Do that too much and you start not being able to practice at all, and that will hurt everyone…

Now hold your horses, all you progressives clamoring for a “single payer” health-care system! I know you think this and all the other Obamacare failings are proof that single payer is the only answer.

But the truth is, this Medicaid debacle should be a stark warning to any of us who still think single payer can work.

Because, my friends, when you consider the more than 130 million people currently “covered” by Medicaid and Medicare combined, the United States already is the largest single-payer health provider in the Western world.

How’s that working for you?(From CNBC)

Too many choices, high costs and bureaucracy: British expats grade American healthcare system 'a pain in the arse'

Moving to the US for work has advantages for British citizens. The healthcare system is not one of them. It’s so bad that some expats fly home for treatment.The Guardian

IRS keeps Albuquerque Tea Party in limbo 5 years after tax-exempt status application. Five years after the Albuquerque Tea Party applied for tax-exempt status under section 501(c)(4) of the tax code, they remain in limbo — their application apparently no closer to being approved or denied than it was the day they mailed it to the IRS on Dec. 29, 2009.They have watched as other groups have been approved in less time, and they say they are mystified as to why the application has been held up so long, after they provided hundreds of pages of evidence and documents that the IRS requested.

Mofart,Since I'm helping you pay for your new glasses, can I have a say in your frame selection?

Obama COMMANDS ‘radical Islam’ be replaced with ‘violent extremism based on a warped view of Islam’

State Dept. Spox says there are other kinds of extremism that are important, but can’t name them

Pathetic Cover Oregon Obamacare Exchange Laying Off HALF Their Workers… Cover Oregon was one of the many who could not deliver a working enrollment-and-subsidy website. It was announced last April the state would be abandoning the exchange altogether because it would be more expensive to fix Cover Oregon than switch to the federal site — which they are slowly in the process of doing. At the time it was announced Cover Oregon would be switching to the federal site, more than $250 million had been dumped into the exchange and most of the federal grant money had been spent…

Number of Americans On Food Stamps Exceeds 46,000,000 For 38th Straight Month…