Indian Gooseberry “Amla” vs. Diabetes and Cancer

I typically don’t go in for “superfoods.” I typically make fun of the idea. While I’m sure a lot of them have their benefits, the marketing hype is just always beyond the pale. Remember Goji Berries? How about Acai?

A few weeks back, and I don’t recall where, someone sent me another video by Dr. Michael Greger, my favorite vegan, I suppose. You may recall that I devoted a whole post to him concerning Beans and the Second Meal Effect: Resistant Starch. Offhand, I love many of his videos, all of which are a brief 1-3 minutes, typically, right to the point, packed with info…and so far as I’ve seen, always well referenced. He’s an excellent communicator.

Turns out, it’s been used in various Eastern medicine traditions for centuries. I used to scoff at such things, but you’d be surprised how often, when some of these herbal remedies get put to the test, they perform in terms of nutrients and anti-oxident value, and so it’s obvious why it was such a tradition. Millions of n=1, adding up to obvious. Moreover, consider that likely there are a far greater number of herbs that are not in such current use because they didn’t get results. So, careful of the bias against, too.

With all respect to the good doc—and I mean that sincerely—I think I’ll stick with an omnivorous diet, targeted to high density animal foods, as well as safe starches including resistant starch. But here’s a couple of other short ones in terms of cancer cells, and why it’s probably a good thing to take regardless of your diet.

Pretty damn compelling stuff, and there’s way more at that search link. So, looks to me like Amla, Indian Gooseberry, is a plant truly deserving of the superfood label. So why haven’t you likely heard anything about it until now? Probably because it’s so damn cheap.

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Hey Richard, great post. I picked up some of the soil-based probiotics. Do you know if these are best taken with or without meals? The bottle didn’t say. Also you have a small typo, “about how even a pinch goes a long way toward helping with high fasting blog glucose.” s/blog/blood.

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Fresh amla cooked in food, gave me repeat trips to the toidy. Great sour effect and maybe I’ll try it again but not with okra. Whatever happened, it accelerated the effect of okra exponentially. Apparently this effect is well known because my assistant laughed at me when I told her what happened. They use amla in India for a good cleanout.

Sumac added to stuff is significantly less dramatic.

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Tim Steele convinced me to start oil pulling. Been doing for almost 9 months. Great results – dentist was shocked I had zero plaque and zero inflammation. There’s something to be said for Ayurveda. Thousands of years of experience combined with n=1,000,000’s means something to me.

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I’ve never needed to do oil pulling even since I heard about it from Tim as well. Why? I had gum diseases and 2 surgeries, and I achieved the same with Vitamin K2 (search the blog for many posts). And now, with RS, it’s even more pronounced.

I’d rather it come from the inside, if you know what I mean. Don’t want to be fooled or miss something. If my teeth are clean from internal goings on and don’t need a brushing for days, tells me my artery walls are likely clean too.

In regards to oil pulling:
The guy in the link actually reviews currently available scientific evidence, which pretty much says that oil pulling has it’s effects only through mechanical cleaning, a bit of emulsification and a bit of saponification, while overall being less effective than conventional dental care.

In response, you have used the appeal to popularity and loaded question logical fallacies to support oil pulling, which by the way can be used to justify things such as homeopathy or even any popular religion. But to answer the question – no, it’s not saying the millions that used it are stupid, simply that they are wrong and that it’s more effective to use conventional dental care (do note that I’m talking only about oil pulling now, not about vit K2) – Tim can be wrong as well, and you yourself said in the past (paraphrasing) that you “love to be wrong” if I remember correctly.

Richard, I have limited experience with oil pulling. One patient who started it after having really terrible periodontal disease had great success. No calculus, no gingivitis, no periodontal pocketing. He had a very challenging mouth in that the enamel of his teeth was horizontally ridged everywhere due to a developmental problem (grew up in wartime Austria). This made keeping the teeth clean even more difficult. He had gum recession everywhere as well. But the oil pulling was the one thing that finally brought his mouth back to health. He used sunflower oil.

You got some balls on you to tell me that I and millions of others are wrong. Oil Pulling has proven to work for me. It works better than conventional theriapies. How do I know? Because I did it. I did not just read some bullshit paper and render judgment. Get off your ass and try it. Until then keep reading all the papers you want and wait for something that is 100% effective on all people. Science is n=1. If it works for you, do it. I’m not going to do a therapy that does not work for me on the grounds that it does work for you.

I’m wondering what in the world gave you the idea that I don’t completely understand that it’s a mechanical thing?

And so is brushing, flossing, toopicking, etc.

And as such, different people engage in these processes differently, and thus get different results. I do just fine with my dry toothbrush and wooden toothpicks. Others may not. I can’t bear the thought of swishing oil around in my mouth for 20 minutes, so I would likely have far less results that someone who does, and does it every day.

Thus, I am right, and you, Nick, and the guy at SBM are wrong. Incidentally, I find SBM to often absolutely dismiss anything and everything out of hand that does not originate in the conventional medical community. I don’t really trust them.

Just because “millions” have used oil pulling doesn’t prove its efficacy. Millions have also put their faith in blood letting, phrenology, frontal lobotomies, homeopathy, acupuncture, reflexology … the list goes on and on.

The peer-reviewed scientific evidence (reviewed in the SBM article) is lackluster.

> Thus, I am right, and you, Nick, and the guy at SBM are wrong. Incidentally, I find SBM to often absolutely dismiss anything and everything out of hand that does not originate in the conventional medical community. I don’t really trust them.

Richard you’re testimony and hostility just flies in the face of the scientific research. Oil pulling has been tested against chlorhexidine mouth rinses — it is less effective. It’s not wholly ineffective, which is why the author notes it “might have a role in developing countries without access to modern oral care”. The authors conclusions are evidence-based:

“There is no evidence or plausible rationale to recommend oil pulling for any indication other than as a poor substitute for oral care.”

I respect SBM. Their research and writing does live up to their namesake, and science is always true whether or not you belive in it.

OTOH, we know with certainly that blood letting doesn’t work medically, though I could imagine it might have a placebo effect.

Pretty tough to claim placebo when you have a dentist looking in your mouth and making comparisons though. The internet is replete with such anecdotes. But you go right ahead and take your “peer reviewed,” which is a lie on its face, pat yourself on the back and feel all smart and superior to those who practice something that actually benefits them and don’t care much for non-peers who think they know something about it.

If you distrust chlorhexidine and want ‘natural’ treatments for dental problems (a fallacy, btw), I think xylitol and vitamin/mineral status has a helluva lot more scientific support than oil swishing.

There might be more to consider about oil pulling, next to its mechanical effect only. Recently seen it mentioned in Dr Ayers old blog post from 2009:coolinginflammation.blogspot.cz/2009/09/vagus-nerve-controls-gut-inflammation.html
“… the role of the vagus nerve in responding to infection/damage signals by producing signals that inhibit inflammation. … The vagus nerve appears to stimulate regulatory T cells that lower the activity of inflammatory cells. …
[Vagal stimulation exercise links: emoclear.com/thedivereflex.htm and emoclear.com/thelongevitymaneuver.htm .]
” Vagus nerve stimulation, which can be turned on by easily doable breathing and relaxation
techniques, involves:
Deep/slow belly breathing involving the nostrils only.
Filling the mouth with saliva and submerging your tongue to trigger a hyper-relaxing vagal response.
Relaxing the hands, tongue, and feet. ”

and in the comments: “Oil pulling would also position the tongue and require nose only breathing.”

So it seems swishing oil in the mouth and breath through the nose stimulates the vagus which has antiinflamatory effect. Vagal nerve -> we are back in the gut.

And another DR. Ayers post:coolinginflammation.blogspot.cz/2009/09/cure-for-inflammatory-diseases.html
in the comment section:
Dr. Ayers: “Oil pulling seems to be an attempt to impact biofilms by altering water structure using emulsions. A large amount of oil relative to mouth water is vigorously forced through the teeth to convert a water-oil mixture into an emulsion of structured water next to oil droplets. The result is that little randomly oriented water remains surrounding the polysaccharide matrix that hold the bacteria in the biofilm on the tooth surface. Since the polysaccharide/bacterial agglutinin interaction is primarily hydrophobic and dependent on random water, the bacteria are released from the polysaccharide.”

Lipid pneumonia sound scary, though. Maybe that is why the traditional medicine prescribed sesame or sunflower oil, only. Not coconut oil, which was surely both known and available at that time. (My speculation).

Results: There was a statistically significant reduction of the pre- and post-values of the plaque and modified gingival index scores in both the study and control groups ( P < 0.001 in both). There was a considerable reduction in the total colony count of aerobic microorganisms present in both the groups.

Conclusion: The oil pulling therapy showed a reduction in the plaque index, modified gingival scores, and total colony count of aerobic microorganisms in the plaque of adolescents with plaque-induced gingivitis..

From Effect of oil-pulling on dental caries causing bacteria

Toxicity, mucosal ulceration, and development of resistant bacterial strains are the adverse effects found with several other antibacterial agents. Collectively, these adverse effects of dental medications motivate dentists to use conventional natural therapeutics for the oral cavity ailments (Takahashi et al., 2003).

S. mutans and L. acidophilus were moderately sensi- tive to sesame oil. The antibacterial activity was found to be high in 1:1 dilution compared to the other dilutions. The solvents, DMSO and Tween 80, had no antibacterial activity against the target organisms (Table 3). Takahashi et al. (2003) reported the antibacterial effect of mastic gum on S. mutans, and lactobacilli.

In the present study, sesame oil is found to have the antibacterial activity against S. mutans, lactobacilli, and total bacteria. Therefore, oil-pulling could be useful for maintaining oral hygiene.
Antibacterial and antifungal properties of essential oil as well as of oil constituents are well documented.
.

Chlorhexidine may discourage compliance because of its unpleasant taste and undesirable side effects such as tooth staining and alterations in taste sensations. Similarly stannous containing products have been associated with extrinsic stain formation, and both stannous and zinc salts have organoleptic problems that restrict the concentrations that can be used…Within the limits of the present study, it can be concluded that Oil Pulling has the ability to reduce plaque and gingivitis. It emerges from this study that an individual is able to maintain low levels of plaque and gingivitis even if he is performing Oil Pulling, just for 45 days.
.

In this study the chlorhexidine group showed a greater statistically significant reduction of S. mutans count in plaque and saliva at different time periods than the oil pulling group. However, sesame oil has certain advantages over chlorhexidine: it does not stain, it has no lingering aftertaste, and causes no allergy. Sesame oil is 5-6 times more cost-effective than chlorhexidine and is, moreover, readily available in the household. There are no disadvantages in oil pulling therapy except for the extended duration of the procedure compared with chlorhexidine. Though oil pulling therapy cannot be recommended for use as a treatment adjunct as of now, it can be used as a preventive home therapy to maintain oral hygiene.

I’d also add that the long term safety of oil pulling is fairly well tested :)

Sure, there is quackery in alterative medicine as well as a lot of good stuff. The same is true of conventional medicine.
I have never seen articles in “sciencebasedmedicine” talking about practices in organized medicine that are shown by studies to be ineffective. I only see criticism of ‘alternative’ medicine, sometimes claiming there is no evidence of effectiveness, when in fact there is credible scientific evidence.
It looks to me that “sciencebasedmedicine” is not about its namesake but rather about supressing any competition to conventional practitioners.

I suppose I ought to have been more explicit. Why do you think it’s unpalatable? Moreover, what makes you believe religiously that the only things nutritious for humans are palatable, as though someone has a great plan?

You right — palatability is a bit subjective. And it’s true that some things can be un-palatable and still be beneficial.

But what I’m trying to get at is that if you are relying on a million anecdotal reports of benefit from the consumption of a product, then how do you know if this specific product is doing anything good? BTW: you can see here I’m assuming you’re ok with anecdotal reports as evidence based on the other blog posts.

RS seems like it’s working because people put RS into the black box (their bodies) and it responds beneficially; they report this, and repeated studies even back it up.

What have you observed and experiences as the benefit of using the Gooseberry supplement? At this point — you’ve experience nothing but a youtube video. Which, to give you some credit, does make people feel good.

It’s still good to stay open minded, just not foolishly or we may get sucked in by the snake oil peddlers.

“But what I’m trying to get at is that if you are relying on a million anecdotal reports of benefit from the consumption of a product, then how do you know if this specific product is doing anything good?”

That was actually alluded to in the post, but one has to pay attention. Harboring religious views can compromise that. :) #hyperbole

At any rate, I’ve seen a number of Greger videos, and when I get past the plant based diet hype, he does tend to come up with relevant research. His second meal effect video was one we already knew about. He doesn’t know it’s RS doing that, but why ought that matter?

So, just so it’s clear to everyone else, the allusion that addressed Vanner’s complain is that there are, over thousands of years, tons of herbs you don’t her about. Why? Because they did nothing for people.

Beauty of a free market, I might add.

Right now and after that last post, I put my meter away again (about how starches cured my high BG). We’ll see in about a month.

Amla is one of the components of triphala which I weirdly enjoy the taste of. Used to make a “tea” from the powder and drink it straight. Apparently the bitterness on your taste buds is part of the experience. I was thinking of going back to taking it, but wasn’t sure how it would impact gut health.

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Buy them fresh at Indian groceries stores when available, generally during summer. Quarter them, de seed them if you wish. Ferment them with salt and a bit of kefir whey, or any vegetable fermentation starter, just like you would make sauerkraut. In India they add caraway seeds for added effect.
This is one of the ways it is consumed traditionally in India. Beware of ready made pickled stuff – it is floating in dangerous oils.
Another way it is traditionally prepared is preserved in boiling sugar cane juice. It turns out like a sweet sour candy. Both the above methods keep well without refrigeration.
If buying powdered Amla – check your source diligently. Because of its popularity, it is now commercially grown all over India, and perhaps elsewhere in South Asia, and there is no control over pesticide use, both in terms of quantity and timing before harvest.
And for those inclined to grow there own, it is a very easy to grow small tree, that can grow from seed and does well only in warm parts of the country. Fruits in 2 to 3 years.

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From time to time you have mentioned that you receive a small compensation when one of us use the Amazon link you provide. I am buying the Amla powder via the link above with that in mine. The information that FTA, Cooling Inflammation, Heisenbug, Dr. BG, have been providing regarding gut health, the basis of all health, is beyond measure. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

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Yes, and lots of readers seem to hit one of the Amazon images on the site before they go shopping, as the reports show all sorts of stuff purchased, not just the specific product links I put up. It’s quite rewarding and I really appreciate the effort everyone is putting in on behalf of keeping me motivated! :)

I’ve added Amla powder to my traveling store of potato starch, and have been taking it every day, probably the equivalent of a teaspoon or so per day. When I get back I’ll be checking my FBG and see if there’s any change over a 10-day period. It tastes fine. A little sour, but I’ve certainly tasted worse things. No negative effects that I can see so far. As RN says, if it does only half of what that doc says, it will be worth it.

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That vegan guy is so annoying though, with his glorification of plants (which really don’t want to be eaten) self-absorbed way of talking and . No wonder you like him Richard :). You have to sift through a lot of bs to get to the good stuff, but in essence vegan is also minimally processed so it’s not all bad. I’ll check out to see whether I can get amla over here, I’m intrigued.

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Since I started taking triphala again (which contains amla) I have felt quite a difference in digestion and general well-being. This is all the more noticeable since this week has been stressful. So, basically, starting RS made me feel amazing, then adding in SBO’s bumped up the effects. I got another boost by being able to add back potatoes and potato starch to my diet, thanks to the green bananas and SBO’s. Now, with the triphala, I feel amazing. I think all these things build on each other and work synergistically to effect health and healing. The reason I had not taken triphala for awhile was because it was causing horrible stomach pains and diarrhea, and therefore, low energy. Now I have none of that thanks to filling in the missing gaps in gut health. Makes me wonder if sometimes our weird reactions to introducing these things is because something else is missing that is critical to the process.

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So I went in search of amla powder here in Los Angeles. Unfortunately there’s a paucity of good Indian grocery stores here, even in “Little Bangladesh” in Mid City. I went to all 4 (or was it 5) and even the one I had called in advance who said they had it did not actually have the stuff. Then when I was on my way back home I found this in the last store I visited:amazon.com/Hesh-Pharma-Powder-3-5oz-powder/dp/B005DNUWIY
Only one reviewer referred to it taken internally. The rest, naturally discussed it as a hair care product. I cannot afford to spend much money right now. This cost me $2, which was half what I was prepared to spend. (I really am on a shoestring budget.) Any opinion on whether this is fit for consumption as well as hair care use?

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i found amla powder in the spice section of east indian grocery stores in toronto that came from india at almost 1/3 the cost of what i usually buy which is organic amla powder grown in south america,india still uses pestecides and herbicides that are illegal here in north america..

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Took potato starch and drank nearly a bottle of wine before dinner. This is not enough to get me buzzed, but usually enough to get me wanting more and make me uninterested in dinner. I was still hungry when I got done cooking dinner (pasta with marinara sauce and garlic bread with Earth Balance “butter”), so I ate. Finished wine, started on beer. Shitty red wine; decent beer (Killian’s Irish Red).

No euphoria or buzz, but nice sense of well-being. Impairment but no stumbling or slurring.

Usual rumination not present. Subject feels no need to listen to Simon and Garfunkel or Pink Floyd. Usual activity at this level of impairment is knitting and music. Current activity is reading (Nick Tosches’ Me and the Devil). Just started music (Yo-Yo Ma). Music appreciation increased as per usual.

Typical libido increase absent. (Perhaps TMI, but you people routinely talk about defecating, so sod it.)

Typical increase in conviviality present. I love you guys. I only visited this blog because I heard such horrible things about its author and commenters, but now I look forward to visiting every day. I find the atmosphere here one of refreshing free inquiry, irreverent humor and a spirit of wanting to help fellow humans. Rumored groupthink, vitriol and misogyny is absent, at least in my admittedly limited reading and participation. I have, despite my being new (and vegan!), been treated with naught but kindness and respect. I must be a little drunk because I used the word “naught.” Some gals get trashy; I get pretentious. ;)

Will continue to imbibe and report as needed.

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Go Pro(Vari) or go home. Just got it this afternoon after hating the girly pens. First notice: I gotta cut the nic down to 12 or 6. Shit I haven’t had shweddy palms like this since like 2 packs of smokes in 4 hours cruising bars of Olongapo in 1984. And I didn’t smoke.

“or Pink Floyd”

Bite tongue, subject!

“sod it”

That’s my gril!

“Typical increase in conviviality present”

My new world. Not new actually and I still love visits to dark and mean places, just far less often and I enjoy the uplifting ones more, scoff less.

It’s all curvature.

Let me tell you why I know you’re here. You’re smart, unique, and most importantly, basically trust yourself to manage a life all your own.

“0In Ayurveda, the well-known Rasayana herb, amla (the fruit of a tree) is considered a general rebuilder of oral health. Amla works well as a mouth rinse as a decoction. One to two grams per day can be taken orally in capsules for long-term benefit to the teeth and gums. Herbs such as amla that support the healing and development of connective tissue when taken internally also benefit the gums. The healing effect of these tonics take longer to become apparent since they must saturate the whole body in order to work on the gums. The results, however, are more lasting.”

Wonder if taking this will regrow my receding gums. My dentist would plotz!

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Ellen, amla contains huge amounts of vitamin C which in this fruit are resistant to breakdown from heat application.

It would appear that vitamin C deficiency is quite common. University of Toronto students were tested and an alarming percentage were low in this vitamin. Some were borderline scorbutic. How hard is it to get enough vitamin C these days? The bigshots say that supplementation is not necessary. Well, they need to look a little closer. I find it totally incredible that young, educated people living during the 21st century don’t know enough to make sure they consume vitamin C rich foods. But there you go.

I am a type 2 diabetic and very interested in the benefits of the Indian Gooseberry. In your video you also talked about the other side effects of IG, better cholesterol and triglyceride numbers. In the small print on the slides showing the results of the studies lists the drug glibenclamide was also being taken by the subjects. What impact did the drug have on the results of the study?

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chlorhexidine rinses have been saving my gums for 20+ years. A prior dentist of mine was one of the first researchers and proponents of the Keyes method. I will be forever grateful to him.
Side effects are minor, dilute a spoonful or so in a tub full of water in your favorite irrigator. Cost is minimal – prevention is everything, at least in this case.

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Spent some time doing some research on Amla and found very little. One study I wanted to read I’m too cheap to pay for and a public one did show some improvements in FBS/A1C/cholesterol. But it was for type 2s who only had modest control over their sugars.

I’m thinking of trying it, but I’m a little shocked about how little info there is out there about it. (datawise) I have been pretty steady at 5.6 for my A1C which should go down a little due to the resistant starch. On that front, my morning numbers have been 110-135 over the past few years and when I did a two week baseline just prior to starting potato starch they were 110-120. Two weeks ago it was 106 and the last two days it was 91 and 97 :)

Just to add to the n=1, I think my ‘story’ is pretty much the same as others – major fartage in the beginning which died down to none-little. Every now and then I have a modest fartage day but haven’t associated it with any diet/PS change. Vivid dreams.

I have noticed that my hunger has increased compared to the low carb I have been doing. More hunger pains in the morning (similar to my SAD days) and more night time eating. I track my diet on myfitnesspal and have noticed a step change. I have been adding more whole food resistant starch mainly through cooled potatoes and various beans. As a result my weight loss has slowed a little, but I’ve been a stall/drop/stall/drop type of loser, so it’s hard to tell.

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and have been taking 1/4 to 1/2 tsp per day for a couple of weeks. My eyes got progressively more watery, to the point where I could not get any serious work done on the computer. I stopped taking it and in just 2 days those symptoms went away. I cannot find any info on side effects of taking amla (aka amalaki.) Has anyone else noticed any adverse side effects? This is a shame if I cannot take this stuff as it does seem to be a bit of a miraculous substance.

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I’ve had amazing results from using amla to recover from cancer. I mix organic amla powder (Vadik Herbs/Amazon) into organic hemp lotion and apply it nightly. Amazing! Most effective capsule is from Best Nutrition (of Hayward, California) which has a plant in Orissa, India. The amla is still green. I’ve also had amazing results drinking hibiscus tea (Organic Hibiscus/Amazon).

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Hey Richard, great post. I picked up some of the soil-based probiotics. Do you know if these are best taken with or without meals? The bottle didn’t say. Also you have a small typo, “about how even a pinch goes a long way toward helping with high fasting blog glucose.” s/blog/blood.

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Fresh amla cooked in food, gave me repeat trips to the toidy. Great sour effect and maybe I’ll try it again but not with okra. Whatever happened, it accelerated the effect of okra exponentially. Apparently this effect is well known because my assistant laughed at me when I told her what happened. They use amla in India for a good cleanout.

Sumac added to stuff is significantly less dramatic.

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Tim Steele convinced me to start oil pulling. Been doing for almost 9 months. Great results – dentist was shocked I had zero plaque and zero inflammation. There’s something to be said for Ayurveda. Thousands of years of experience combined with n=1,000,000’s means something to me.

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I’ve never needed to do oil pulling even since I heard about it from Tim as well. Why? I had gum diseases and 2 surgeries, and I achieved the same with Vitamin K2 (search the blog for many posts). And now, with RS, it’s even more pronounced.

I’d rather it come from the inside, if you know what I mean. Don’t want to be fooled or miss something. If my teeth are clean from internal goings on and don’t need a brushing for days, tells me my artery walls are likely clean too.

In regards to oil pulling:
The guy in the link actually reviews currently available scientific evidence, which pretty much says that oil pulling has it’s effects only through mechanical cleaning, a bit of emulsification and a bit of saponification, while overall being less effective than conventional dental care.

In response, you have used the appeal to popularity and loaded question logical fallacies to support oil pulling, which by the way can be used to justify things such as homeopathy or even any popular religion. But to answer the question – no, it’s not saying the millions that used it are stupid, simply that they are wrong and that it’s more effective to use conventional dental care (do note that I’m talking only about oil pulling now, not about vit K2) – Tim can be wrong as well, and you yourself said in the past (paraphrasing) that you “love to be wrong” if I remember correctly.

Richard, I have limited experience with oil pulling. One patient who started it after having really terrible periodontal disease had great success. No calculus, no gingivitis, no periodontal pocketing. He had a very challenging mouth in that the enamel of his teeth was horizontally ridged everywhere due to a developmental problem (grew up in wartime Austria). This made keeping the teeth clean even more difficult. He had gum recession everywhere as well. But the oil pulling was the one thing that finally brought his mouth back to health. He used sunflower oil.

You got some balls on you to tell me that I and millions of others are wrong. Oil Pulling has proven to work for me. It works better than conventional theriapies. How do I know? Because I did it. I did not just read some bullshit paper and render judgment. Get off your ass and try it. Until then keep reading all the papers you want and wait for something that is 100% effective on all people. Science is n=1. If it works for you, do it. I’m not going to do a therapy that does not work for me on the grounds that it does work for you.

I’m wondering what in the world gave you the idea that I don’t completely understand that it’s a mechanical thing?

And so is brushing, flossing, toopicking, etc.

And as such, different people engage in these processes differently, and thus get different results. I do just fine with my dry toothbrush and wooden toothpicks. Others may not. I can’t bear the thought of swishing oil around in my mouth for 20 minutes, so I would likely have far less results that someone who does, and does it every day.

Thus, I am right, and you, Nick, and the guy at SBM are wrong. Incidentally, I find SBM to often absolutely dismiss anything and everything out of hand that does not originate in the conventional medical community. I don’t really trust them.

Just because “millions” have used oil pulling doesn’t prove its efficacy. Millions have also put their faith in blood letting, phrenology, frontal lobotomies, homeopathy, acupuncture, reflexology … the list goes on and on.

The peer-reviewed scientific evidence (reviewed in the SBM article) is lackluster.

> Thus, I am right, and you, Nick, and the guy at SBM are wrong. Incidentally, I find SBM to often absolutely dismiss anything and everything out of hand that does not originate in the conventional medical community. I don’t really trust them.

Richard you’re testimony and hostility just flies in the face of the scientific research. Oil pulling has been tested against chlorhexidine mouth rinses — it is less effective. It’s not wholly ineffective, which is why the author notes it “might have a role in developing countries without access to modern oral care”. The authors conclusions are evidence-based:

“There is no evidence or plausible rationale to recommend oil pulling for any indication other than as a poor substitute for oral care.”

I respect SBM. Their research and writing does live up to their namesake, and science is always true whether or not you belive in it.

OTOH, we know with certainly that blood letting doesn’t work medically, though I could imagine it might have a placebo effect.

Pretty tough to claim placebo when you have a dentist looking in your mouth and making comparisons though. The internet is replete with such anecdotes. But you go right ahead and take your “peer reviewed,” which is a lie on its face, pat yourself on the back and feel all smart and superior to those who practice something that actually benefits them and don’t care much for non-peers who think they know something about it.

If you distrust chlorhexidine and want ‘natural’ treatments for dental problems (a fallacy, btw), I think xylitol and vitamin/mineral status has a helluva lot more scientific support than oil swishing.

There might be more to consider about oil pulling, next to its mechanical effect only. Recently seen it mentioned in Dr Ayers old blog post from 2009:coolinginflammation.blogspot.cz/2009/09/vagus-nerve-controls-gut-inflammation.html
“… the role of the vagus nerve in responding to infection/damage signals by producing signals that inhibit inflammation. … The vagus nerve appears to stimulate regulatory T cells that lower the activity of inflammatory cells. …
[Vagal stimulation exercise links: emoclear.com/thedivereflex.htm and emoclear.com/thelongevitymaneuver.htm .]
” Vagus nerve stimulation, which can be turned on by easily doable breathing and relaxation
techniques, involves:
Deep/slow belly breathing involving the nostrils only.
Filling the mouth with saliva and submerging your tongue to trigger a hyper-relaxing vagal response.
Relaxing the hands, tongue, and feet. ”

and in the comments: “Oil pulling would also position the tongue and require nose only breathing.”

So it seems swishing oil in the mouth and breath through the nose stimulates the vagus which has antiinflamatory effect. Vagal nerve -> we are back in the gut.

And another DR. Ayers post:coolinginflammation.blogspot.cz/2009/09/cure-for-inflammatory-diseases.html
in the comment section:
Dr. Ayers: “Oil pulling seems to be an attempt to impact biofilms by altering water structure using emulsions. A large amount of oil relative to mouth water is vigorously forced through the teeth to convert a water-oil mixture into an emulsion of structured water next to oil droplets. The result is that little randomly oriented water remains surrounding the polysaccharide matrix that hold the bacteria in the biofilm on the tooth surface. Since the polysaccharide/bacterial agglutinin interaction is primarily hydrophobic and dependent on random water, the bacteria are released from the polysaccharide.”

Lipid pneumonia sound scary, though. Maybe that is why the traditional medicine prescribed sesame or sunflower oil, only. Not coconut oil, which was surely both known and available at that time. (My speculation).

Results: There was a statistically significant reduction of the pre- and post-values of the plaque and modified gingival index scores in both the study and control groups ( P < 0.001 in both). There was a considerable reduction in the total colony count of aerobic microorganisms present in both the groups.

Conclusion: The oil pulling therapy showed a reduction in the plaque index, modified gingival scores, and total colony count of aerobic microorganisms in the plaque of adolescents with plaque-induced gingivitis..

From Effect of oil-pulling on dental caries causing bacteria

Toxicity, mucosal ulceration, and development of resistant bacterial strains are the adverse effects found with several other antibacterial agents. Collectively, these adverse effects of dental medications motivate dentists to use conventional natural therapeutics for the oral cavity ailments (Takahashi et al., 2003).

S. mutans and L. acidophilus were moderately sensi- tive to sesame oil. The antibacterial activity was found to be high in 1:1 dilution compared to the other dilutions. The solvents, DMSO and Tween 80, had no antibacterial activity against the target organisms (Table 3). Takahashi et al. (2003) reported the antibacterial effect of mastic gum on S. mutans, and lactobacilli.

In the present study, sesame oil is found to have the antibacterial activity against S. mutans, lactobacilli, and total bacteria. Therefore, oil-pulling could be useful for maintaining oral hygiene.
Antibacterial and antifungal properties of essential oil as well as of oil constituents are well documented.
.

Chlorhexidine may discourage compliance because of its unpleasant taste and undesirable side effects such as tooth staining and alterations in taste sensations. Similarly stannous containing products have been associated with extrinsic stain formation, and both stannous and zinc salts have organoleptic problems that restrict the concentrations that can be used…Within the limits of the present study, it can be concluded that Oil Pulling has the ability to reduce plaque and gingivitis. It emerges from this study that an individual is able to maintain low levels of plaque and gingivitis even if he is performing Oil Pulling, just for 45 days.
.

In this study the chlorhexidine group showed a greater statistically significant reduction of S. mutans count in plaque and saliva at different time periods than the oil pulling group. However, sesame oil has certain advantages over chlorhexidine: it does not stain, it has no lingering aftertaste, and causes no allergy. Sesame oil is 5-6 times more cost-effective than chlorhexidine and is, moreover, readily available in the household. There are no disadvantages in oil pulling therapy except for the extended duration of the procedure compared with chlorhexidine. Though oil pulling therapy cannot be recommended for use as a treatment adjunct as of now, it can be used as a preventive home therapy to maintain oral hygiene.

I’d also add that the long term safety of oil pulling is fairly well tested :)

Sure, there is quackery in alterative medicine as well as a lot of good stuff. The same is true of conventional medicine.
I have never seen articles in “sciencebasedmedicine” talking about practices in organized medicine that are shown by studies to be ineffective. I only see criticism of ‘alternative’ medicine, sometimes claiming there is no evidence of effectiveness, when in fact there is credible scientific evidence.
It looks to me that “sciencebasedmedicine” is not about its namesake but rather about supressing any competition to conventional practitioners.

I suppose I ought to have been more explicit. Why do you think it’s unpalatable? Moreover, what makes you believe religiously that the only things nutritious for humans are palatable, as though someone has a great plan?

You right — palatability is a bit subjective. And it’s true that some things can be un-palatable and still be beneficial.

But what I’m trying to get at is that if you are relying on a million anecdotal reports of benefit from the consumption of a product, then how do you know if this specific product is doing anything good? BTW: you can see here I’m assuming you’re ok with anecdotal reports as evidence based on the other blog posts.

RS seems like it’s working because people put RS into the black box (their bodies) and it responds beneficially; they report this, and repeated studies even back it up.

What have you observed and experiences as the benefit of using the Gooseberry supplement? At this point — you’ve experience nothing but a youtube video. Which, to give you some credit, does make people feel good.

It’s still good to stay open minded, just not foolishly or we may get sucked in by the snake oil peddlers.

“But what I’m trying to get at is that if you are relying on a million anecdotal reports of benefit from the consumption of a product, then how do you know if this specific product is doing anything good?”

That was actually alluded to in the post, but one has to pay attention. Harboring religious views can compromise that. :) #hyperbole

At any rate, I’ve seen a number of Greger videos, and when I get past the plant based diet hype, he does tend to come up with relevant research. His second meal effect video was one we already knew about. He doesn’t know it’s RS doing that, but why ought that matter?

So, just so it’s clear to everyone else, the allusion that addressed Vanner’s complain is that there are, over thousands of years, tons of herbs you don’t her about. Why? Because they did nothing for people.

Beauty of a free market, I might add.

Right now and after that last post, I put my meter away again (about how starches cured my high BG). We’ll see in about a month.

Amla is one of the components of triphala which I weirdly enjoy the taste of. Used to make a “tea” from the powder and drink it straight. Apparently the bitterness on your taste buds is part of the experience. I was thinking of going back to taking it, but wasn’t sure how it would impact gut health.

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Buy them fresh at Indian groceries stores when available, generally during summer. Quarter them, de seed them if you wish. Ferment them with salt and a bit of kefir whey, or any vegetable fermentation starter, just like you would make sauerkraut. In India they add caraway seeds for added effect.
This is one of the ways it is consumed traditionally in India. Beware of ready made pickled stuff – it is floating in dangerous oils.
Another way it is traditionally prepared is preserved in boiling sugar cane juice. It turns out like a sweet sour candy. Both the above methods keep well without refrigeration.
If buying powdered Amla – check your source diligently. Because of its popularity, it is now commercially grown all over India, and perhaps elsewhere in South Asia, and there is no control over pesticide use, both in terms of quantity and timing before harvest.
And for those inclined to grow there own, it is a very easy to grow small tree, that can grow from seed and does well only in warm parts of the country. Fruits in 2 to 3 years.

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From time to time you have mentioned that you receive a small compensation when one of us use the Amazon link you provide. I am buying the Amla powder via the link above with that in mine. The information that FTA, Cooling Inflammation, Heisenbug, Dr. BG, have been providing regarding gut health, the basis of all health, is beyond measure. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

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Yes, and lots of readers seem to hit one of the Amazon images on the site before they go shopping, as the reports show all sorts of stuff purchased, not just the specific product links I put up. It’s quite rewarding and I really appreciate the effort everyone is putting in on behalf of keeping me motivated! :)

I’ve added Amla powder to my traveling store of potato starch, and have been taking it every day, probably the equivalent of a teaspoon or so per day. When I get back I’ll be checking my FBG and see if there’s any change over a 10-day period. It tastes fine. A little sour, but I’ve certainly tasted worse things. No negative effects that I can see so far. As RN says, if it does only half of what that doc says, it will be worth it.

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That vegan guy is so annoying though, with his glorification of plants (which really don’t want to be eaten) self-absorbed way of talking and . No wonder you like him Richard :). You have to sift through a lot of bs to get to the good stuff, but in essence vegan is also minimally processed so it’s not all bad. I’ll check out to see whether I can get amla over here, I’m intrigued.

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Since I started taking triphala again (which contains amla) I have felt quite a difference in digestion and general well-being. This is all the more noticeable since this week has been stressful. So, basically, starting RS made me feel amazing, then adding in SBO’s bumped up the effects. I got another boost by being able to add back potatoes and potato starch to my diet, thanks to the green bananas and SBO’s. Now, with the triphala, I feel amazing. I think all these things build on each other and work synergistically to effect health and healing. The reason I had not taken triphala for awhile was because it was causing horrible stomach pains and diarrhea, and therefore, low energy. Now I have none of that thanks to filling in the missing gaps in gut health. Makes me wonder if sometimes our weird reactions to introducing these things is because something else is missing that is critical to the process.

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I'm Richard Nikoley. Free the Animal began in 2003 and as of 2018, contains over 4,600 posts and 110,000 comments from readers. I cover a lot of ground, blogging what I wish...from health, diet, and lifestyle to philosophy, politics, social issues, and cryptocurrency. I celebrate the audacity and hubris to live by your own exclusive authority and take your own chances in life. [Read more...]

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