Interview highlights:

02:52 – The content master with a fascinating past
06:29 – Because he didn’t have an offer that converts…
08:00 – Where the epic blog posts came from
12:10 – Three questions that kick it off
16:47 – Promise a result, give them proof, tease them
19:56 – Two things you’ve got to ask
21:22 – What sets Chris completely apart
22:59 – How to capture leads in three jabs
27:39 – The metric that really does count
29:25 – Achieving a 23-percent blog post conversion
31:23 – Just how responsive is your email?
32:54 – Content marketing without the upgrades
33:54 – Better than SEO, better than paid ads
41:07 – How to promote a post on just $5 a day
48:09 – A strategy for every budget
51:17 – Wrapping up a stellar episode

Transcription:

James: James Schramko here. Welcome back to SuperFastBusiness.com. This is Episode 725. Today, I am joined by Chris Von Wilpert. Welcome, Chris.

Chris: Dude, I’m super psyched to be here. I’ve been listening to this podcast, like, the last five or six years, and now I’ve got the opportunity to come on. I’m super psyched to be on.

James: Well, you’re halfway there. I think we’ve been going for about 10. I’ve actually been to every episode of this podcast, which puts me in a unique position. I feel like one of the most privileged people on the internet in terms of my education, because I get to speak to superstar experts in whatever field they’re doing.

And today’s topic really revolves around content marketing, and I have a soft spot for content marketing, because SuperFastBusiness and SilverCircle, my other community membership, are really built currently off a content-marketing baseline. Whether it’s podcasts, videos, a lot of that gets transferred into blog posts and some social media content. I just did a training for members of SuperFastBusiness, actually, and I worked out that in the last couple of years, we have generated probably close to a million dollars just off the content, and then amplifying it. I’m not including the podcast. So we’ve just run little videos and some strategic placements and then a tiny little bit of paid traffic. That’s been great.

But I’ve got to say, you have been on my radar repeatedly in the last few months. The first time you popped up, you mentioned me in some series you were doing on a Facebook post. You kept doing little daily installments, and it was riveting storytelling and I kept tuning back for more. And it turned out that I’d actually chatted with you, about four years ago. You wanted to join SilverCircle. And in your story, you said that I rejected you. And I’m like, Oh, no, I hope this guy’s not upset with me, or I hope I didn’t do anything wrong.

And then one of my students in SilverCircle is posting this viral blog post. This really epic, meaty, high-value, super-researched, extra-quality post, and he asked us if we could share it. And I said, What’s going on with this? And he goes, I’m studying from this guy, Chris Von Wilpert.

And then I dig more into your stuff. I’ve subscribed to your material. I find out you’ve gone off and done some work with Noah Kagan, and Justin Brooke. And I just love seeing a success story like yours.

The content master with a fascinating past

So I would love to find out from you, what’s it been like? Because you started in business about 14 years ago. You’ve run five different types of businesses, from agencies to ecommerce to software as a service, information products, even a physical store. Like, you’ve named a snow cone Joey. I’m sure that doesn’t refer to the drug trade. But you’ve done so much. And these days, like what I really admire about your content marketing, it’s just the bullseye. You just know exactly how to go for the jugular. And to find that 64/4, you just get your audience to tell you the best headline, and then you create this epic piece of content that everyone wants to share. And just turn it into sales, a hundred thousand dollars a month in sales from some pieces of content. I don’t even know where to start, but it’s just so exciting. And so where do you want to go with this, Chris?

Chris: Yes, I’m excited to walk everyone, like, step-by-step through the system that I’ve been doing. Because I’ve had the experience of working with Noah at Sumo, and so I saw what it was like doing content marketing for a big brand that had a big email list that was able to get SEO traffic and organic traffic pretty easily, to then stepping into doing Content Mavericks. It started from nothing, and a lot of the same strategies weren’t working. And so I can like, speak to like, both of those.

And then yeah, that Facebook post series I did, originally, it was meant to be one post about, like, my snow cone story, about building my Snowy Joey snow cone business over here in Australia. And I was really just focused on that for about seven or eight years.

And I tried to license and franchise a business. It got to that stage where I had, like, 10 snow cone machines, like five dairy kiosks, and five popcorn machines. And I had people coming to my commercial premises, picking up the machines and going out and selling them on weekends. I tried to make it worthwhile for people to actually purchase a franchise and then make their own money, but I was really struggling with scaling the business, because people would only make the income on the weekend, because that’s when all the kids’, like, football games and soccer games are on. And so I wasn’t able to successfully do it.

That’s why I kind of jumped into, like, the digital marketing sort of space. And I had experience running my own Google ads to get people to hire my snow cone machine. So that’s kind of how I first got into it.

And so I tried to start picking up clients for, like, a paid advertising agency. And I picked up one client, and they were paying me $3500 a month. And then it was just that one client. And then I was charging, I think it was a thousand dollars plus 15 percent on ad spend at that stage. And I was able to scale up their ad spend to around $50,000 a month I was spending on Google ads. And by the time I was done with them, I was making about $13,500 per month. That’s kind of like a really good lifestyle. Living in China, I was like, breakdancing and I had this one client. I remember contacting you and I said I wanted coaching, and you’re like, I’m single-client dependent, and I haven’t really an offer that converts because I only had this one client.

And then that’s when I tried to really look into like, how do I get more clients to my own agency? And at the same time, my girlfriend at the time had, like, a wig shop in China. That’s where the physical store comes in. And so she built up to like, five different stores selling wigs in China. So she had five different stores. She’s not running that anymore, but that’s kind of where I had some experience in the physical store space.

But maybe I can jump in now and just talk about what I’m doing with Content Mavericks, and like, this sort of Greatest Hits content system and using just five pieces of content, so it’s not really overwhelming, and building a system around that.

James: Yeah, you might as well. I’m still recovering from wigs and breakdancing and snow cone architecture. Wow. I hope when we spoke, too, that I wasn’t, you know, disappointing to you, or that in some way that helped you, perhaps, realizing what you needed to find.

Chris: Yeah. So I can talk a bit about the story and I’ll tie it in again at the end as well with what I’ve been doing recently.

Because he didn’t have an offer that converts…

So you kind of gave me feedback that I didn’t have an offer that converts, and I asked you like, at that stage, because you couldn’t coach me, like, who should I go and see? And I think you recommended me to someone, I think it was Michelle McPherson, I think that was the name of the person, I think you might have recommended me to her. And I hopped on there, I sent an email to them, and I asked them about coaching and things like that. And I remember they were saying that they didn’t do that, but there was this guy called Justin Brooke, and that he’s just really killing it with his IMScalable, paid advertising agency. And so I hit up Justin, and then Justin wasn’t doing any coaching that time. He wasn’t even running AdSkills at that stage. He was running his paid ads agency.

But Justin had a course then about growing an agency based on his own agency experience. And I kind of took that course and then I jumped into the group that Justin had, and there was one kind of turning point where I asked Justin, and Justin had the same sort of methodology that I teach in Content Mavericks now, which is you only need a handful of pieces of content to get really great results. But you can do a lot more if you like, but it’s possible to do it without that.

And see, Justin has something like two pieces of content that he was sharing all these clients for his IMScalable paid advertising agency. I asked him, like, what’s the best sales generating piece of content that you’ve made? He stated two, and then I kind of took one of them that he created. The article’s about Fisher Investments, reverse engineering Fisher Investments’ media buying strategy. And so I kind of took this article that he had that had worked really well. At that stage, it was like the beginning of 2017, I’d done no content marketing before at all. I wouldn’t post on Facebook at all. I’d like, if you look back before 2018, I didn’t post on social media at all.

Where the epic blog posts came from

This article that he did, everyone was talking about HubSpot, and I wanted to attract software companies, because this company I was working with was a software company that I’d grown to around 15,000 a month on Google ad spend. And they would pay me, like, a fee to get them over 10,000 a month. And that was awesome. like back then I was like, all about the money. For me, that was awesome.

James: For most of us, I think, at the beginning at least.

Chris: Yeah. I think that’s what we’re most like in the beginning. And so, I wrote this article, reverse engineering HubSpot, and I kind of spent like a whole week on this article. I didn’t have much experience writing at all. And so then I did everything I could to promote this one piece of content. I didn’t create anything else. I was just trying all these different things. I even tried some things, like, I had a virtual assistant tweeting people who had tweeted stuff related to HubSpot in the last 90 days, I think it was. So, trying all these things that weren’t really scalable, but all these different things.

And then Noah Kagan came across this particular post. He just hit me up on Twitter, and he goes, “The HubSpot post was fire. Would you write one for OkDork?” (this is like his personal blog). And so I was like, “Yeah, sure, I’ll do it.” And I’d never done, like, a guest post or anything like that before.

And I kind of did some background research on Noah. I didn’t know a lot about him, but I knew he was running AppSumo, it was a pretty big company. And so I had a look at what his goal was. Like, his goal was to hit 100,000 podcast downloads that year. And so I tried to tie that back when I did the piece of content.

The post that I did, I ended up doing – this is going to help people as well in terms of finding topics – I went into the Facebook group, and I asked people, like, Noah Kagan wants me to write this post reverse engineering a company, like my HubSpot one. Which company would you like to see me reverse engineer? And I ran a poll, I put five options that I thought were popular software companies, and then I let people choose their own. And then based on the results of the poll, whichever got the highest votes, that was the one I was going to write it on. And so I wrote it on Intercom, and that’s the post that I did on Noah’s site. And then I looked at Noah’s stats on his most shared posts, and I just kind of went after making this Noah’s most successful post ever. And I actually put my own money behind it. I put, I think it was $688. I have like, a case study on Content Mavericks about it now. Six-hundred and eighty-eight dollars in my ad spend on Twitter and Facebook promoting the post to Intercom’s audience, and that was part of the promotion that I did along with a number of other things.

But yeah, all this sort of stuff that I ran, the promotion of the post, to Noah, I sent him screenshots every time I had a big win. So I’d post in the Facebook group, it has like, it’s like 100 comments. and like, Noah like to get this post that I did liked in his group. And then I’m like, here I spent like 500 bucks on Facebook ads, like running to the Intercom audience, like we got all these clicks. I’d send a screenshot of that to Noah. And so I was just all about winning, really, about getting his most popular post ever.

And then based on that, yeah, he flew me over to AppSumo, and I actually slept in the AppSumo office for five months, on like, a mattress in the office there. And I’d just walk over to the Sumo office’s company that sells software. It was just down the road. And that’s kind of how I got connected with Noah and started helping him. And he thought I was like, a content marketing guy. And I wasn’t. I did a few pieces of content. I just had one that went really, really well.

James: Oh, that’s such a good story. I know Noah well. In fact, I did a post on OkDork, go from zero to a million downloads on your podcast. And he was really interesting to work with. He’s so thorough and picky when it comes to the content, the quality of the content. And clearly you resonated with him. I have seen the testimonial video he made for you, it was outstanding. I don’t think I’ve ever seen higher praise. So that’s such an accomplishment.

So I think the first point that I’ve made there is in your technique, apart from being hungry and confident and really having that strong desire to win, and it really reminds me of that Netflix series, Drive to Survive. I was just watching Season Two yesterday. You can see that in the Formula One drivers and the team bosses – they want to win more than anything. As you poll your audience, you actually get some input from them in terms of what they want to see. So you’re starting pretty close to a known point of interest to the audience, would you say that’s fair?

Chris: Yeah, that’s fair. And then I will use that to promote the post as well, like the feedback that I get. And I use it down the track as well with sales. So I can talk about, like, the Greatest Hits content system and what I use now for the feedback around that.

James: Alright, tell me about your Greatest Hits content system.

Three questions that kick it off

Chris: Alright. So what this starts with is it starts with a Greatest Hits content survey. And so I know you were speaking about this in a past episode with a dude John Lint about, you were talking about getting, if you have 500 email subscribers, what do you do to get feedback? And so this is also part of what I’ll do, but I ask three questions in a survey. And so the first one is like, what’s the single biggest challenge you have? So if it’s to me, what’s the single biggest challenge you have getting leads and sales with content marketing? And so that’s like the first question.

The second question will be like, what other marketing training have you bought? So if it’s not marketing, then you just replace that with whatever your industry.

James: Right.

Chris: So I want to find out what people are actually buying. And so the third question is, who do you let into your inbox? And so I want to know, who are people actually subscribed to and listening to? And so they’re kind of the three questions I ask. And if people don’t actually have any sort of audience, like email list, this can be hard to do, obviously, but there’s a workaround for that. You can just go into social media. And I wouldn’t press all three questions in a social media post, it’s a bit overwhelming for social media. I do one at a time. So you post one one day, you might post the next one the next day. Or you might, if you don’t even have an audience on your own profile or anything like that, you may just go into a group that already has an existing audience, just like I did back when I had no audience, I did that post for Noah. And then post the individual questions. I wouldn’t do all them at once, but one a day or one a week. And then you can get feedback on those particular things.

At the very start, I actually spoke to my customers and I asked them some of these questions. But I know a lot of people won’t actually do that. When I give people that advice, they’re like, they don’t ever end up doing it. So I really don’t give that advice anymore. But it’s the best way. But yeah, that’s another way as well.

So once I have all this feedback, so I did this with the Content Mavericks email list, and I got about 105 responses to what their biggest challenge was. I’ll go through and I’ll kind of sort this by what the themes are, like the common themes of the topics. And so I’ll go through and then I might put like, this one’s related to content IDs. This one’s related to a content distribution strategy. This one’s related to, like, how do you check your content marketing ROI, so I put content marketing ROI for that topic. And so what I’m doing is, after I go through all of it, like all those hundred, I’m going back, and I’m kind of sorting A to Z and see which one’s like, the most popular, what are most people actually asking about. And then I can kind of build my content strategy around that.

“People that give you paragraphs and paragraphs of feedback are the best.”

CLICK TO TWEET

And then down the track as well, I can talk about this later, but when it comes to getting sales from content and setting, like, I got my presale content emails, because these people are going to leave responses, some of them are short, one-sentence responses, like maybe 10 words, and some of them are just paragraphs. And so these people that give you paragraphs and paragraphs of feedback are the best, and so you can really use those later on when it comes to sales and calling out specific people. I’ll talk about that later. And then I’m also using this when it comes to the promotion, which I’ll talk about is actually using the people that they’re subscribed to and that they’re buying products from already, using that when it comes to like the paid promotion around the posts. So I’m using old information.

James: I could see that. As soon as you mentioned it, I thought, this is very clever. I’m certainly familiar with the first part about asking the single biggest challenge and then sorting them into groups, because that’s pretty much the ASK survey method, right?

James: But the second question about what they’re already buying, genius! Because that separates the difference between preference versus performance, like they’ve already proven and performed. They’re not just saying what they’d like. Like, every guy says, I want a Lamborghini or Ferrari. Instead, it’s like what cars have you already purchased? What’s in your garage right now? That tells us a lot more. They say I’ve got a Datsun 1200 Ute, or I have a Honda Civic. Now we know their commercial intent and ability.

And then, who do you let in the inbox? That is just genius, because I imagine flattery is going to come into play later. If we go back to the people who you’ve got all their fans lining up, it’s easy for you to cash in on their fans.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah for sure. I even put like, after the who do you let into your inbox, I ask, like, open up your email and tell me who the last 10 emails are from. So I did this on an actual call with a customer, and then I just put that as like, subtext on the survey now. But I put that on there, because that gives you really good feedback about whose emails they’re opening right now.

But after I have all this feedback, and I have like the topic that I’m going to cover, then I’ll go through and like, I don’t actually focus a lot on SEO, and this is because when I started Content Mavericks, I kind of knew, after doing a few posts like this, this was never going to fly. Like, trying to go after SEO traffic early on, it just wasn’t going to work for me. Like yeah, at Sumo, we could have posts ranking within like three months, three to six months or often just after a bit of promotion work. But when the site’s really new, often that won’t happen. And so I wanted to get results fast, and I didn’t want to wait around for SEO traffic. And so I kind of make fun of SEO people sometimes and I call it like, pants-down SEO, like, you pull your pants down, you bend over and wait for Google to send you traffic.

Promise a result, give them proof, tease them

So what I did was, after I have the topic, I have like a template that I get when I’m writing my own articles, and when I’m training people as well. I call it the AIDA article template, because it’s based on that copywriting framework of attention, interest, desire and action, but I build it into like, a content template for writing a blog post. And so I use this framework.

And then I also have formulas for like the headline, the intro and the body copy. And so I’ll give you an example of like, an intro formula that I might use. So it’s called RPT, so it stands for results, proof, teaser.

And so in the first line, I might call out and say like, this is how I got 87,000 visitors to one blog post in 60 days. I’m talking about a specific result. I got to really catch people’s attention in that first sentence.

And then I’ll show proof. And so I actually show a screenshot of what a blog article was like before, and so it might show, like, 8000 visitors to this post and then the after shot is like, 87,000 visitors. So it’s like a clear proof screenshot of that. I actually got that result from inside analytics. I’ll do a bit of mock up on the post so it looks good for that one particular screenshot in the post.

And then I’ll give like a teaser of what’s about to come. So here’s like the step-by-step method I used to do it. And then I’ll kind of jump straight into like the actionable tactics. And so I don’t kind of fluff around in the intro, because that’s where I think you get lost a lot. Because Sumo used to have this thing called heatmaps, they don’t have it anymore. But you could kind of see when you’re looking at – other tools do it as well – but you could see where people drop off. A lot of people are dropping off like after 20, 30 percent of the article. If you don’t really get that attention part right, then you can just lose people, a lot of people, if you don’t get that right.

James: So it’s great having this proof. Your results, proof and teaser, you’ve come up with this formula that works. I agree. You got to get the attention out of the gate. It seems like an easy template to use, as well. Like, the result is what someone wants, so it’s going to get their attention straightaway. The proof is now, they know that they can trust that you can actually deliver it, because you’ve already done it. And then the teaser, so what happens next?

Chris: Yeah. Some people give me the objection that I don’t have results. So in that case, then you can lead with the survey data. And you can lead with the customer, like you lead with the customer’s problem that they’ve spoken to you about, and lead with that.

But after that, the actual topic that I’m writing about, I do have a little bit of SEO going on in the background. So what I’ll do is, I’ll look up the post on Google and I’ll look at like, the search engine results page. And I’ll try and get an idea of like, for that topic, I’ll put the topic into like SEMrush or Ahrefs. And then I’ll take a look at like, how much traffic potential is the post getting? I don’t care about search volume, because that’s sometimes like a vanity metric, the search volume, but you can see how many by just putting the top URL of the post into one of those tools. You can see like, how much traffic did it get last month on desktop and mobile. So you can get an estimate of how much traffic it’s actually getting across all the different keywords it ranks for the article. So this is like, the only sort of SEO sort of part I put in my strategy, just thinking of the long term gain with this.

And so I’ll find the topic that’s related that has like, a good traffic potential. I’ll study the search engine results page, and I’ll let the page guide, like, the structure of the post. So if it’s like a list post, or if it’s like a step-by-step guide, or depending on what style of post it is, that’s kind of the type of post that I’m going to write, but I’m going to make it very different to what those posts are.

Two things you’ve got to ask

So in my template, I have two questions that people have to answer. If they’re writing for me, or if I’m writing the post, they need to ask the question like, how’s this post going to be unique from all the others on the topic? And so they need to give a really clear answer about that. If it’s not, then they come back with another one.

“How’s this post going to be unique from all the others on the topic?”

CLICK TO TWEET

And then the second one is the outline. They need to tell me, what’s the outline of the post going to be? And so when I’m working with writers, often I’ll actually come up with the unique angle and the outline, and then they’ll go and write it. But sometimes I’ll get the writer to do it, and then I’ll give feedback. Because when you’re doing, like, a lot of content, I found this with Sumo, like, we had a few different freelancers doing content. If you wait till they give you the first draft, it’s like it’s too late, like, you find out it’s not up to par. And then it’s because you made the mistake of not asking those questions at the start. So that’s like the second step, like, what’s your unique angle? What’s the outline going to be? And then you jump into actually writing the post.

James: I like it. Small batch sizes. It’s the same process I’ve been through with speakers from my event, is I ask them to just give me an outline, like the headline and a few bullet points of what they want to cover. And then we agree on that, then they can go in and draft out the rest. So I like that sort of minimum viable test.

And I really take your point about you choosing the headline or the point of difference, because that’s kind of how my content works. When I make a video or a podcast, I actually name it. Whatever I name the folder. That is what the post will be called. That basically is setting the North Star for my team to work around that. In fact, pointing out what’s unique, that’s one of the items in the 16-Word Sales Letter book. It’s basically, if you can’t point out why something’s unique, you’re wasting your time, right? There’s obviously value in that.

What sets Chris completely apart

Now I would say, having followed your content on social media, one thing that stands out for me with your story is just how crazy your story is. You are so different to a normal person out there, you know? Breakdancing, snow-cone architect from visiting China, and like, you’re just crazy. And that is like a magnet for people who especially, who are doing things the standard old way, the old SEO way or the old way we’ve always done list posts or epic posts, etc. You’re just tipping the whole thing on its head.

What else do you think makes your approach to this system completely different? Because I love how you’ve added things on top of a traditional sort of survey and gone into the buying intent, and tapping into potential outlets for magnifying it. I love how you’ve put the proof there and results. And this is something I remember, one of my other clients, actually, John Logar, said if you don’t have results, he said he would do a case study on someone else in the market. That’s why we often see in business books, we see the author reference Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, blah, blah, blah. They’re always referencing someone famous to make a point, where they didn’t become a billionaire themselves, but they’ll just mention someone who has and it still makes the point, right?

Chris: Yeah, John Logar’s a legend. I’ve actually worked with him for a bit. A long time ago now, but yeah, he’s a legend.

James: He’s a very good salesman.

Chris: Yeah, he is. So yeah, the next part is, I’m like, very focused around using content as like getting conversions from content, not just using content and just posting it and then let’s just hope it ranks for SEO traffic, like in a year or in six months. And so I’m very focused on making every single piece of content work. And I build around like, these five pieces.

How to capture leads in three jabs

So I use this thing called the Three Jabs strategy. And so I built this when I was at Sumo, and so I had a goal, like Noah would always give me really aggressive goals. Like, at the very start, it was like, take the book from 100,000 per month to 500,000 per month in five months. And then we focused on traffic for a bit, a traffic goal, and then after a short amount of time, we’ve realized that well, going after traffic isn’t actually the most important factor here. And so we actually changed that to being marketing qualified leads, which we tried a sales goal and we tried an email lead goal as well. We tried all these different goals, and very specific, within a specific time frame as well.

And so one of the goals was, how do we get the email list to 10,000 emails per month? Like, how do we get that many in one month? And so, you know, at this date we had around 300 blog posts, not all of them were performing at all. And so I looked at the 80/20. I went to Google Analytics. So you can do this by going into the Google Analytics behavior landing pages, and it’ll tell you, like, you can rank it by looking over the last year or last 90 days and see what your top traffic posts are. And I filter it by the organic filter, especially for a website that’s been around for a while. And so I went through and I looked at, like, the top 50 posts. And what I did is I ran this Three Jabs strategy, which is I kind of dogfooded Sumo’s tool by using it, and I put like, the first one, the first jab was like a welcome mat. And this is like, a very aggressive form of lead capture, right? Because the welcome mat shows up when someone comes onto the page, before they actually see the content. And so I only usually do it on desktop, not on mobile, because it can hurt on mobile. Often I won’t even do the welcome mat if I don’t want to be as aggressive, it’s kind of up to the person in this particular scenario. But you will get more conversions by doing it. Because I’ve tested and tried it.

And then the second jab is a contextual content upgrade. So you’ll see on the Content Mavericks blog, below every headline, I have like a bonus material link. And then within the actual post, when it makes sense, like contextually, actually I tie in the blog content copy to the actual upgrade that I’m giving people inside the post. And then that’s like, the one thing that reaches the most conversions. That’s like 65 percent of like, the conversions from these Three Jabs strategy comes from that particular thing because it’s so tied in, and it’s also not intrusive at all.

And the third one is like, an exit intent. So if people are leaving, they’ll see like an exit intent. I did that across, like, the top 50 traffic posts on Sumo, and we were able to get the list from, it was around 3000 per month, up to 10,000 per month. But the whole thing around doing this is like, tracking it inside Google Analytics, setting up a Google Analytics goal to see how your traffic is converting from traffic to email lead. And then you can see like, what are the top converting posts from traffic to lead? And then you can use this data when it comes to actually advertising the post. And so this is kind of a next part of it, like focusing on the conversion part. And then I can talk more about the distribution things.

James: So just a quick recap on that. When you said dogfooding, I’m sure you’re referencing using your own tool, right?

Chris: Yeah, because Sumo tool, they sell the email capture software tool. And so these things I’m talking about, the welcome mat, the click trigger and the exit intent, these are all things that Sumo are using. So we wanted to use the Sumo tool to kind of show people, like, this is what’s possible.

James: Perfect. And is the welcome mat in any way similar to a hello bar?

Chris: It’s a bit similar to that hello bar, except the welcome mat takes up the whole screen.

James: Right.

Chris: It’s like a full-page interstitial, so it’s much more aggressive.

James: So one thing I did was trawl through my analytics and find the highest-converting blog posts through to actual sales. And that’s what we run as our hello bar on my website.

And then we do the content upgrade, but I like what you’re saying about the contextual part, because maybe we could improve how we’re doing it. What we tend to do, for where we put this episode at Episode 725, there will be the headline, there’ll be a bullet point timelines of what happens in this podcast, which we’ve been doing now since 2006. I think we were one of the first to do it. And then there’ll be a big red box, which we’ll use a lead box, which is probably very similar to a clickable link, click on it and it grabs an email opt-in, just the email, not a name. That is where we get most of the opt-ins for SuperFastBusiness. But we’re not getting 10,000 opt-ins a month. I mean, I don’t even have a list of 10,000. So that’s why I’m talking to you. But the people who do opt in tend to go through, and they get offered then, based on logic, if they haven’t been a member of SuperFastBusiness membership, then it will actually sniff them out and it’ll start to offer them, you know, would you like to find out about the membership? And then it goes on and they turn into customers. So we do it off a small volume.

And I love what you’re saying about Noah changing the goal, because I remember, once upon a time, probably about seven or eight years ago, I think his goal just prior to that was to have the biggest email database. I think he had 800,000 emails. And then he realized that wasn’t the goal, and he changed his goal.

The metric that really does count

But I’d love to know from you, knowing what you know, what would be a good goal to track? If I went to my content team after this call and said, “I just got off the call with Chris, and this is our goal, this is the number that matters for our business,” what do you think that should be?

Chris: Yeah, so sales is always, like, the most critical. But there’s a particular metric that I really like; no one talks about it as well. It’s active audience. So the email list size is a vanity metric. Like, it doesn’t matter how big your email list size is, but the active audience is like, how many people have opened or clicked. The definition I have is, how many people have opened or clicked in the last 60 days? And I want to know, if I have a significant audience of like, my active audience, so people who have opened and clicked in the last 60 days, on my email list, that’s the number that I really want to be looking at. I’m always looking at it every day. I have like a tab that opens up in an extra window, and it tells me the number.

And so this is the one number that I want to look at, because when you have people who are active in opening and clicking your emails, when it comes to sales conversions down the track, you can obviously use this list that you have, the active audience in like, say, retargeting to case studies. I know you’ve talked with people in here about the importance of case studies and how important those are.

James: They sell the most. Whenever I get a student on my podcast talking about a transformation, that is my proof, as you say. Like, the headline is the results. The proof is like, the entire episode, because it’s a real person. You can validate, go and look up their site, you can interrogate them, they will tell you that this is 100-percent fact. And then it’s like the ultimate teaser for what could be possible for the person listening. So I think it definitely follows your formula. And case studies rock.

Chris: Yeah, and you and Taki killed it, like back when you were doing that Sales Marketing Profit, I think it was. Every single podcast was a case study, I remember.

James: Every single one. True case study.

Chris: I’m pretty sure that’s where I reached out to you. Yeah, I was listening to these case studies all the time and so, so powerful having these case studies. So I’ll talk about that in a bit.

Achieving a 23-percent blog post conversion

But yeah, after – that’s not where we’re at now, but after running this whole strategy of the Three Jabs strategy, like I teased about this in a post on Facebook. I told people on the podcast episode, I’m going to tell you how I got it. I’m getting a blog post to convert at 23 percent, right? And it’s all about this Three Jabs strategy.

And actually on this post, I don’t even have the welcome mat. I have the contextual content upgrades and I have the exit intent on this post. But what makes this post so successful, this 23-percent conversion rate post, is that the content upgrade is what I call a utility content upgrade, which means that when someone downloads this content upgrade, they can go and use it straight away. So in this particular post, it’s a post about how you build an editorial calendar for your blog. So it’s like, a pretty basic topic. But the angle that I took with the post is like, this is the editorial calendar that I used to grow a blog past 100,000 visits per month. And then I give people the actual editorial calendar template that I use as the upgrade. And so it makes sense after you read the step-by-step guide about how you build out an editorial calendar for your blog that you’re going to want the template that I used. And now I call this out in the very beginning of the post. I’m like, download this editorial calendar template, like, before you dig into the post here. Well, I word it better than that.

And then I jump into the step-by-step process, and I also include some calls to action within the post as well. And so this is how I’m getting the 23-percent conversion rate on one blog post, and running ads to it, like the small budget ads which I’ll talk about in a sec.

James: But it’s literally a checklist you go through to know exactly where you’re strong or weak.

Just how responsive is your email?

I want to ask you, too, because you weren’t sure where we’re up to. But I was going to ask you, what is a good open rate to tell if your email is responsive?

Chris: Oh, yeah. So I think the email, I’ve just been doing this recently, like the active audience, and focusing on this a lot, and so I’ve been looking at like around 20 to 30 percent sort of open rates, but I think that can be. I haven’t actually filtered out all the people yet, because I set up this automation that runs in the background that’s going to filter out people who haven’t been opening or clicking the last 60 days. Once all those people get taken off, they’ll go into reengagement sequence. I’m going to put a subject line, like What the f are you still doing here? And then it’s gonna be like, click on this link or I’m just going to unsubscribe you. And so once I have that, I feel like the open rate is going to increase a lot above the 20, 30 percent. So I’m sending to people who are in the active ones, the full audience right now. So I feel like that should get a lot higher, and I’ll be able to get better feedback on that once I have all these people kind of filtered out.

James: Well, from our experience, I mean, I went from a list size of 35,000 to about 7000 over the years by scrubbing inactives.

Chris: Yeah.

James: And you will lose some people who are active, and are happy just to collect the emails but aren’t engaging. But our open rates are often somewhere around 26 percent. I’m really happy with that. That’s enough for me to make a few million dollars a year. So it’s a small list, but super responsive. And I’m making a commitment to have much better content. I’m hearing messages from guys like Charley Valher, and from you, Chris, saying you don’t need as much content, you just need the right content. You need good content. And if we start using some of these frameworks, we’re going to get there.

Content marketing without the upgrades

So let’s continue this journey. We’ve now got an active audience. We’ve done the Three Jabs strategy. We’ve done the welcome mat or some kind of a hello bar or whatever. We have some contextual content upgrades. We have an exit intent pop. What else can we do?

“You can do content marketing without doing content upgrades if your product ties in really closely to the topics you’re talking about.”

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Chris: Yeah. So I know of some people who talk about software, and I had this experience in Sumo, it’s like, you can do content marketing without doing content upgrades if your product ties in really closely to the topics you’re talking about. And then people go and sign up via software. And I know people who have built really big companies based on that strategy.

James: I think Ahrefs falls into that category.

Chris: Yeah. They definitely fall into it, yeah.

James: Almost all their content. And Tim Soulo was saying this on a very recent podcast episode, that they just make educational content that teaches people how to get a great result, and their software just happens to be the tool they’re using for that.

Chris: Yeah, yeah. So for some companies, though, it’s not that cut and dried. You can’t just go and do that. And we all know, in the marketing space, like, having an email list is such a huge asset. Having an active audience, the bigger your active audience is, like the bigger asset you have. And so that’s why I kind of focus on these whole sort of utility content upgrade thing and using the Three Jabs.

Better than SEO, better than paid ads

But after this, let’s talk about two promotion methods. I don’t want to overwhelm people, but the first one, like, one of the most effective, is that I say that’s better than SEO and paid ads, like by far, is what I call red packet partnerships. And so, I come from living a lot in China, and then I had a wedding last year. And people come to your wedding, they give you like, a red packet full of money for your wedding. And so what you don’t realize, though, is in China, you’re expected to give people back more than they gave you when they gave you the red packet at their wedding. And so that’s what this whole thing’s around. And so, I call this red packet partnerships.

“What other marketing training are you buying, and who are you letting into your inbox?”

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And what you’re doing is, I know, you talked with, I think it was Rich Schefren as well recently about this, is how important partnerships are becoming. And so what I do is, like I use this survey and ask for, what other marketing training are you buying, and who are you letting into your inbox? I have this data now of people that they subscribe to when they buy from. And so I can go to this list of people, and I can like, study them a bit. I want to do partnerships with these people now, right? I want to get my content, like my greatest hits content, in front of their email list. And I’m not even so concerned about the social media share, because I know that some people do have very active sort of personal profiles or groups, but some people just don’t. And so getting, like, that share on by the emails is, I think, like you down with Jay Abraham.

James: Yeah.

Chris: Isn’t that one of your posts?

James: Man, like I’ve got to give it to you, you really do listen to my content, because you’re talking about stuff that only someone who would listen would know. And here you are on the SuperFastBusiness podcast, you’ve been invited to SuperFastBusiness Live, you’ve been invited to speak at SuperFastBusiness Live, you’ll get immortalized in video content within my closest-knit community in perpetuity, and you’ll be promoted via email. Talk about a strategy that has a slingshot effect. I mean, do you know how many pitches we get on a daily basis for people to be on SuperFastBusiness? I’m not flattering myself here. But I’m just saying if you have a podcast that’s been around for more than a year or two, you’re just getting inundated. Like everyone wants to come and soapbox on your show. And even though we’ve mentioned Content Mavericks probably 15 times so far on this episode, you’ve delivered so much value and great ideas that are even useful to me, that it’s the way to go. I mean, that’s the thing that I think typifies you. You just lead with amazing levels of value. It’s just solid gold. Like, everything’s a hit. There’s no fluff in there at all.

Chris: Oh, I appreciate it. I was really stoked about the invite from you. So I’ve had like, I think this is like a sign if you’re doing content marketing right. You get people reaching out to you to come on to their podcast or something like that. So I’ve had, like, in the last three or so months, 20 podcasts invites, and I’ve never really wanted to do them. But I’ve listened to your podcast so closely, as soon as you sent me that email, I was like, Yes, I want to do this. And so I was like, super excited to come on. But this partnership strategy, so there’s a specific like, where you need to outreach to people for this to work. Like, I’ve seen people, someone today sent me an email. It was a pretty good average email, actually, because they said they’ve been sending my stuff, they kind of refer the stuff that they’d seen, like this case study that I’ve written about, and how they followed it. And they’re like, they’re linking me to that post. They’re like, it’d be cool if you could share on social media or your email list. And it’s like, it’s just not the right approach to take. That’s like, better than most people, actually, what this guy did.

James: Pretty common. The flattery one. Flattery with a sort of a mild attempt at showing you they know your stuff. And then they have an ask. It’s a pretty early ask.

Chris: Yeah. And so, this guy’d actually studied my stuff pretty well, and so it was like, better than most emails I get. But the approach that I’d take, I’d first off, like, study what one of these people are doing. And so I look over their site. Usually, there’s always sort of one main sort of thing on their side that they’re trying to promote. And I know you talked about the 100K per month, like, Can you make 100K per month, that’s your hello bar? Right?

James: Yeah, yeah.

Chris: Because you said that’s like the top sort of content upgrade you have. And so if I was looking at your site, it’s pretty obvious that that’s like the main sort of thing that you’re trying to direct people to when they come to your site. So I’m looking at that when I go to people’s websites. Like, what are they actually trying to get eyeballs on? And so I’ll actually sometimes opt in for that. I won’t always opt in to it, I might just have a look over it and like, some of the stuff they’re doing. And I’ll send like a short little thing, just like – this has to be genuine as well – like you really have to enjoy this particular thing that they did or what they did. And I’ll just like, send a really short something like, I really love this particular thing you were doing on your site, this blog post or podcast, kind of like how this guy reached out to me. I’ll send this particular message. And I just do this as I’m coming across really cool people that I come across, and I just send the message, and I add them to a spreadsheet. Later on, I’m gonna hit this person up again, but not right now.

So I come across cool people all the time, cool content that they’re creating. I just send that really short message, like, I really love what you’re doing, and it’s genuine. And then, not just straight after, but I may wait maybe a month, but I like to batch things, so it’s faster, so I’ll go through this spreadsheet now that I have people I’ve reached out to, and I’ve hit them up and I’ve said, like, I really enjoy your content. And now I’ll send like a more advanced sort of pitch. The approach that I take the pitch from is that I’m offering to promote their piece of content in front of my email list. And then I’m just kind of mentioning like, you know, in one sentence, it’s a pretty in-depth pitch, but I mention it in one sentence, like, I also have something cool that your audience might like. I put, like, a thing afterwards, that’s like, but if you don’t want to share stuff with your audience, like, that’s cool as well. Like, I really enjoy what you’re doing, and I will promote your stuff to my audience no matter what. And so I’m taking the approach that I’m going to promote them. And then, no matter what happens, if they say no, I just feel like at least I tried. So many different messages to try and get this approach right. I tried giving people $5 Starbucks gift cards and all this different stuff. But I just found this sort of approach, and it’s just a lot more genuine as well, and you’re just helping people. Even if they don’t want to do this sort of partnership, you can still go and promote them, if they don’t want to do it.

James: I love it too, man. I can’t tell you how many episodes I’ve done where I’ve just brought someone into my audience. I do it because I want my audience to get great value. That’s it. If they get great value, they’ll keep listening and one day they might become a member of one of my programs.

And often, I mean more often than not, I’m not getting any kind of affiliate cut or benefit from it other than just serving my audience. But over time, you do build goodwill. I mean, gosh, you’ve mentioned this Rolodex of names, from Justin Brooke, Taki Moore, Jay Abraham, Rich Schefren. I’ve got these fantastic people, you know, that are just one connection away now, by just building value for them and providing them something that they get a benefit from. I’m still getting messages from past guests saying they can’t believe how many inquiries they’ve had, or what the podcast has led to, which, you know, makes me feel good. And also, just as a note of interest, and to sort of inform the listener, I’m thinking of pulling back a lot on the interview-style podcasts, and I’m going to do some more monologues in the future. So it’s going to be a rarer and rarer thing that someone actually comes on the show. They have to be truly trusted and valued.

But I’ve got to say, like right now, I’m so excited about Chris Von Wilpert and the content coming out of there. That’s why I needed to ask you to come along to share with my audience, both on the podcast and to my live event. Because it’s just exactly what we do. It’s exactly what we need, and it fits with my message of Work Less Make More. Like, get more traffic, make more sales from way less content, and you’ve got the system dialed.

Chris: Yeah.

James: So, where do we go from here?

How to promote a post on just $5 a day

Chris: Yeah. So I often tell people like, no one even wants to read content or listen to content. What they’re always listening for is like, the one piece of insight of wisdom that they can get. When I’m listening to your podcast episodes, it’s not necessarily for the content. It’s more for like, what’s this one piece of insight or wisdom I can take away from this interview? And so, that’s what I hope people get from this interview and also SuperFastBusiness Live as well. Even though I go over like, this whole system, you can just take one part of this. Like, I went over a few things, like red packet partnerships, Three Jabs strategy – you just take one part and apply that in your business, it can work really well. And so this ties in later to the sales emails. But after this, I do this thing called the $5 Hit Record method. And so this ties in with like, Greatest Hits, right?

James: I love your naming conventions. Where did you pick this up, from naming everything? It’s something I’m really weak at, and I could have been a lot more famous for certain things. I mean, a lot of people know me for Own the Racecourse, OTR. But I could have named a lot of other things if I was more clever.

Chris: Yeah, I think about this a lot, like about how I name things, because I just kind of noticed that a lot of things, like Noah always told me, like everything is a copy of something else. And so, if you name something, it’s very hard for someone to copy that. And like, someone can go and talk about, now, how I run $5-per-day ads to high-value pieces of content, and then I’m, oh, that’s the $5 Hit Record method. And then because I’ve named it, I sort of own it now. And so it’s a very good way of like, yeah, people just remember you. Like, I’ve seen different people do this in the marketing space. Not a lot of people do it, but it’s a very, I feel like, effective method. And Justin also got into this a bit as well. Like, he didn’t name some things, and he named things a bit like, you know, internet market-ey sort of way.

“Why you might want to name your IP”

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James: Yeah, yeah. There’s some terrible names in the internet marketing space. But I know a few people who are good at naming things. I’d say Dean Jackson comes to mind, you know, he’s super famous with his nine-word email, and so forth. Taki’s exceptionally good at naming things. And I think this is a big lesson. It’s a reminder for me as a publisher, someone who does put out a lot of content and is writing books, etc. We’ve got to name and own our things.

So your $5 Hit Record technique…

Chris: Yeah.

James: What is it?

Chris: So, this is basically spending $5 a day per ad. And so what I’ll do is I’ll take the survey data, I’m going back to the survey data.

James: Yeah.

Chris: And I’m like, who’s bought products, and who’s on their email list? And I go through, and I’m doing this at the moment on – you can do this on any ad network. It’s not ad network specific, but I’m just going to talk about this in relation to Facebook. Because me personally, I write these posts on Facebook and Facebook’s one of the only platforms where you have this ability to write pretty long in-depth posts and give people a lot of value in the post itself before they actually get to the content.

James: Do you actually author it in Facebook, or do you put it into a tool somewhere and then paste it across? Just a technical question.

Chris: Yeah, I actually put it inside a Google Doc.

James: Yeah.

Chris: And then I have one of the people from AdSkills, from Justin’s group, who’s actually employed on the Content Mavericks, to actually go in and take my Google Doc with all the copy and the images. They just kind of do the media bite buying part by actually placing the media bite inside Facebook.

James: Gotcha.

Chris: And so I put inside a Google Doc with like the headline, the description, a link to the Google Drive with the actual image, and they’ll go and do that.

James: Perfect.

Chris: Yeah.

James: So you’re running a Facebook ad for $5 a day budget, is it?

Chris: Yep. So I’m running five, and I still have one piece of content. So let’s take for example this editorial calendar that I said is converting at 23 percent, right? And so I select five people of what my audience said. So I’ll rank the people. Let’s say, for example, they said Justin Brooke, he came up like seven different times. He’s like, the top person. He’s the first person I’m going to put in that set number one. Because everyone said, Oh, yeah, I bought Justin Brooke’s stuff. So yeah, I want to target people who are following Justin Brooke now.

And then I’ll go through that, and I’ll go in order of like, who are they actually buying product from and subscribing to? And I’ll kind of put the top five. And then I’ll run an ad to this blog post of the followers of these people. And so some of these are really big people in the marketing space, right? Because this often comes up a lot, like a lot of people are following similar people in the space. Sometimes you can’t always target the people’s followers through Facebook. In that case, I might go to the next person, or I can go to another ad network and use it. It’s possible on Twitter to do that. But this is the process that I’ll go through.

And I’m just spending like $5 per day. And what I’ll do is, I’ll do some math, obviously, and I want to figure out like, say for example, I’m selling the Content Mavericks course for $1,000, and I work out, like, how many leads does it take me to get a sale? I’ll do some back-of-the-napkin math and get an idea of like, what cost per lead can I afford? And I kind of figured out for me, I want to be spending like around, my CPA, like my cost per lead, I want it to be around $5 or less. And so what I’m doing is I have this one ad going to this blog post for these five different ad sets targeting these five different people. I do that for the other piece of content. The greatest content system is built around five pieces of Greatest Hits contents. I’m doing this for five pieces of content with these five campaigns, with the five ad sets targeting the same people.

Something that I don’t do, that I think also someone on your podcast in the past, Molly Pittman, I think it was, she mentioned that it’s all about building up social proof on your ads. It’s not about testing now. Like, the social media algorithms have become a lot smarter and so I’m not actually doing any testing, which is kind of backwards. I’m just putting in like I’m copying the post ID and using the same post ID across each of the ads and building up all this social proof on the post.

And I’m going to look at the blend. So just something that Justin talks about, you need to like look at the blended CPA, not just the cost per lead off one particular ad, you want to look at across your whole entire campaign. So I’m looking across all five campaigns – is that $5 cost per lead? Is it below the $5-cost-per-lead target that I have? It’ll be different for everyone. So I’m looking at that number. If that’s right, then I just want to keep running the ad. And then if I want, if I want to be a bit more nitpicky, and I’m on a really tight budget, then I might actually pour some ads that are like maybe $7, or getting up even higher, about $10. And then I can bring in another piece of content.

So I’m not trying to beat my competition. I’m trying to beat myself. I’m trying to beat my top-converting posts, and so I can bring in another piece of content and try and beat it to like, now that becomes one of my five Greatest Hits. So obviously, people have greatest hits. Like Bieber has like, “Baby”, and so he’s always trying to beat that. It’s probably like, his best ever. And so I always try to beat my own.

James: It’s great. I think competing with yourself is a wonderful technique. I actually track my surfboards in a spreadsheet in a Google Sheet. And I track the longest ride, the fastest speed for each board, and I’m always trying to beat it and benchmark it. And I actually rate them. I have a color-coded system, like, from red down to white, for like the hottest to the least hot. And if it hits red, and it’s like the fastest with the longest rides, it’s a keeper. And they’re always having the battle of the boards, trying to stay in my favor. And I also used to do that with business models. That’s how I ended up with the business models I have now. And I sold some of the service businesses I built because they were competing for my attention and some are better than others.

So I love your technique, it makes so much sense. It sounds a lot like the dollar cost averaging strategy for investment, where you’re blending your campaigns and using the same pixel or, I don’t know the technical name, but where you keep those followers and likes and so forth. So, man, just powerful stuff.

A strategy for every budget

What sort of advice would you have for someone who’s listening to this and their brain just exploded on the wall?

Chris: So in Content Mavericks, I teach a process that some people are starting out, they’ve only got $5 a day to spend. And so I have a strategy for just spending $5 a day, and then I have one just spending $100 a day or more. Then I have one if you can spend $10,000 a month or more. Because I found this out when I first created a course around topic-based modules. And what I had was like content creation, content distribution, case studies, like what a normal course is. I figured this out and like, Justin actually recommended this to me. So the idea came from Justin, and he’ll say it came from somewhere else, like everything’s a copy of something else, like Noah tells me. I’m sorry, I was stuck on a thought then.

James: Catering for different budgets.

Chris: Yeah, for different budgets, that’s right, for different budgets. So I’d give the whole course based on people’s budget, because I know that people are going to be at different levels. What I’m talking about now, this Greatest Hits content system, it’s perfect for someone who’s got like, if you have $100 marketing budget, this is kind of like perfect for that sort of person. And if you don’t, you can still do what I’m talking about. But you want to focus at the very start, on just like, one piece of content.

Like I’m telling people, if you just need to start, you need to start with one, like what I did when I did that post with Noah and also with that HubSpot post that really went off. I really just focused on that one and really optimizing the one and promoting it as much as I could. And that’s how I kind of built my first sort of 1,000 email list subscribers, just from sort of one post. And just focus on that. Don’t try and get caught up in this whole sort of process of, I need to do two posts a week or three posts a week. Like, don’t get caught up in that at the start.

James: That’s it, man. That’s our takeaway too. You know, we do two podcasts a week. We have ample opportunities. You know, we have all these pages. When we did an SEO audit, we found there’s a lot of dead pages that aren’t really getting traffic, and we have to find the winners in there. So the big takeaway really is, if you’ve published anything already, go and find out what the number one performing piece of content is, and just put more effort into that before you worry about producing a whole lot more stuff. That’s what I’m hearing.

Chris: Yeah, even just like the Three Jabs strategy.

James: I was going to say Three Jabs. It’s already in my mind. Three Jabs.

Chris: You just put that on the top 50. If you’ve been doing content marketing a long time, like five or six years or even just a few years, don’t look at your data. Like, based off data, do this on your top posts. You’ll, like, see the list and your audience size increase, like instantly, like in a few days.

James: Thank you. That’s amazing.

Chris, wow. You certainly delivered beyond my expectations. And I had some big expectations for this particular call. And I just want to say thank you for coming and sharing so generously. I think it’s obvious now that you can be found at ContentMavericks.com. Would that be the right place to look?

Chris: Yeah, I think I might have learned this from Noah. He was like, when you’re doing podcasts, you always have to mention like, you keep mentioning the name over and over again. It’s something I got off him. Like, he was doing a lot of things to try and build his podcast. And I like, just observed a lot from Noah. It was like, working with Noah, I kind of learnt that he was like, he moved really fast on everything. And it wasn’t so much like Noah coaching me to do stuff. It was more like he wants to work with people who really get results and do it like, fast. And so I was able to observe a lot of stuff that Noah did. And I think this is one thing I might have picked up from him, like always mentioning it.

Wrapping up a stellar episode

But I want to like, make this the most popular podcast episode ever, because I’m all about winning. And so I’d really love like, when I was at AppSumo, and I had this goal of going from 100,000 visitors to 200,000 in one month, I recorded this video, inside the AppSumo office. I was sitting in the AppSumo, it was like seven o’clock in the morning. And I was recording over the shoulder what I was doing to promote this post. And so I want people to actually share this podcast episode with their email subscribers, and send me a screenshot of them doing it. And if they do it, I want to send them this video that I don’t even, I don’t share with anyone. But I just wanted to share this episode. I wanted to get out to more people and if they do, then hit me up and show me the screenshot of you doing it, and I’ll send you this video.

James: That sounds super cool. How do they find you?

Chris: If you go to Facebook, just look up my full name, Chris Von Wilpert, and you can just hit me up on a private message if you’ve done it.

James: You, sir, are a legend. This has been just amazing. I love it. What a fantastic outcome.

You know, I wanted to catch that fish that got away and get you back on and give you that chance. You know, maybe I’ll find myself in a future story on your Facebook series in a favorable position, at some point.

But, you know, it’s so good to see the journey you went on. And I know a lot of the characters you’ve been involved with, and I just love celebrating success. And certainly you’ve given our team some things to think about. We will consider this a most educational podcast for our SuperFastBusiness content team. I’ve been actively looking up your stuff, researching it, following it and sharing it with my team, as some of your other students, like Dan Wardrope who’s just like a ferocious learner and implementer. I predict he’ll be one of your most successful students. He’s coming in an upcoming podcast as well, because this guy implements, and I’ll just see the results you’re getting. So, well done.

Chris: Yeah, it’s crazy how fast Dan’s implementing stuff. That’s like, one difference between people who come in and get results on stuff. It doesn’t matter whether it’s coaching or coming into a course, like most people aren’t taking the action. Yeah, Dan’s one of those guys that just does it.

James: This guy, he will implement before you even finish your sentence, and I love that. He comes from a sports background. He is so switched on. I love that he’s revolutionising the agency space as well. So we’ll talk about that in a future episode.

So this is Episode 725. There’s a lot of catchy names, like Three Jabs strategy, and I got your Results, Proof, Teaser. Formulas, frameworks. And I love it, the buy, the ask, the trust. Those sort of things are just fantastic techniques. And we’re going to go and have a look at how we can contextually put our content upgrades in our posts better. And I think it’s time to also review which of our posts are the top five and get on to that promotion strategy with our Facebook advertising superstar Lenny.

So thank you so much. I’ll see you at our SuperFastBusiness Live event. And it’s just been wonderful to catch up again after four years of being out in the wilderness.

Chris: Yeah, thanks so much for having me, James. Thanks so much for the invite.

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