Monday, January 12, 2009

Owning the Apocalypse: the Upside of Annihilation

(this is a continuation of a discussion found in the comments section here.

“If we accept this, then the only question we need to ask ourselves here is, do we WANT billions of people to die before a shift takes place?”

And “the end of the matrix-world assembled by AI to enslave us would constitute death, real and total (and simultaneous) to any and all individuals who hadn’t managed to unplug (surrender their identities) before this happened.”

The first of these comments seems to assume that the shift is going to happen after a global cataclysm; the second that the shift will itself cause the mass death event. But what if it’s the reverse: that a huge cataclysm involving the deaths of many people (possibly ourselves included, let’s not forget!) is necessary to release the energy needed to launch the collective consciousness of humanity onto a galactic frequency, into a new frame of reference?

Swampjism said “Why not project the most positive and beautiful visions available? Why do we play into the ‘mass death is inevitable’ meme that is so dear to our Controllers, thereby making their magick even more effective?”

And: “What we do know, though, is that our adversaries down here do seem to get off on mass death, it does seem to be a part of their plans.”

Is it possible that the most positive and beautiful vision available to us includes a mass death event? Because your question PRESUPPOSES that this is not possible, that it is even unthinkable (or at least unspeakable). I for one don’t accept this. I think it is quite possible. Nor do I accept that our controllers actually want to bring about mass death—or if they do, that they are necessarily wrong just because they are corrupt. Isn’t it equally possible that they are propagating this meme, along with that of a Luciferian, Sun-worshipping elite, precisely in order to make it all the more unpalatable to us? So that we associate something we know in our hearts (and guts) is natural, glorious, and true (the Sun, Lucifer) with the evil machinations of a neurotic and deranged elite?

After all, it is this same elite who have, through their machinations, ensured that the population reach such unmanageable figures. Is this so they have the sacrificial fodder they require, or is it because it is far easier to control a blind mass than a tight-knit group of organized and aware individuals? The greater the mass, the lower the consciousness. Witness Nazism, sports crowds (or any crowds for that matter), raves: the same rule applies. A large collective is governed by the lowest common “denomination” of consciousness. This is why large groups “talk about the weather,” while one-on-one (or small dinner party) conversations can become intimate and deep. There is no psychic resonance in a large crowd, there is only mass hysteria. If a shamanic collective movement is the one thing our handlers truly fear, and if, as I believe, the only way this new consensus can come about is by cancelling the old one and freeing the energy-consciousness trapped in it (i.e., mass death), then the more people there are (especially once they are all “branded,” microchipped literally or figuratively), the safer the elite will be. Because such a mass can never connect psychically to function as a single (shamanic) consciousness.

So if I’m right, all these lies are carefully intertwined: the lie of democracy, that we are all equal (i.e., all ready and able to tune into shamanic consciousness); that the idea of any elite at all is corrupt; and that bringing about a consciousness shift through global catastrophe and mass death is an evil plot of the elite, because, after all, we are all equal and the same, and we just need to get rid of our evil handlers and have one big party!

So then the question remains: how do we get “rid” our these evil elite, if we are all one?

All these lies are based upon - and hence fortify - the founding lie: that we, humanity, has any existence at all save as an aspect of a collective organism known as the Universe. The reason there is no difference to be made between any one of us is that we are all equally aspects or fragments of this collective unfolding—and that includes the elite, who are our collective Shadow, or rather, who have sacrificed themselves (as Hitler did) to show to us this Shadow. “Humanity”—not just the elite but all of us—is the skin which this ancient, beautiful consciousness we call the Universe is presently shedding.

To claim to be welcoming and preparing for some great, galactic shift, while at the same time fussing over a few billion “deaths,” is like ordering an omelet then politely asking the chef to please refrain from breaking any eggs!

If we can’t stand the heat, oh sha-people, it’s time to get the hell out of the kitchen!

53 comments:

auroragirl
said...

Hi aeolus. I cannot read "The Lucid View" or posts like this one without feeling that you've hit the nail right on the head. I am not trying to be a suck-up here, but really, I think you've absolutely nailed it! We have simply been too well taught that it is impolite and "pessimistic" to face truths (I almost wrote "unpleasant" truths, but then that is exactly what you are saying, is it not? It is only our perspective that makes such a truth unpleasant!), and the cult of posititive thinking has corrupted our vision. And then, nobody wants to be one of the ones who has to die for all this to be accomplished...after all, every Christian you talk to seems to assume they will be one of the ones to be raptured! It always helps me to remember that ALL, even the "evil elite", are working at the behest of the greatest power there is: the power of the Universe. It would seem that looking at things from a human perspective is appropriate when dealing with the human realm, but we are not talking about the human realm here...we are talking about the Universe. But, switching my thinking back to the human realm, the reason that I've taught myself how to spin and weave, how to make soap and use herbs is not because I think I will survive (because that is up to the Universe) but that if I do happen to be one of the ones left here we will need to start from scratch and those skills will be needed...all the ancient skills will be. And I think that you must be right about the MSs really wanting so many humans around. Masses of humanity are like herds of cattle or sheep...heaven knows, that analogy has been made often enough. But trying to herd shamans would be like trying to herd cats...it can't be done.

As for weaving and soap-making, seems like a worthwhile pursuit for the Now, regardless of how "handy" it may be in a post-apocalypse future.

We aren't so much preparing for what may be to come as slowly aligning ourselves with what already is, what has always been, and will always be.

The eschaton is the end of one (false) narrative as it is swallowed up by and into a true narrative, personal into archetypal, linear time into cosmic time, Eternity.

Hence all we are "doing" (becoming aware of what is happening) is seeing the ways in which the collective psyche weaves a historical narrative, as a bridge between actual and Imaginal consciousness.

All these "events" that appear to be catastrophic changes at a physical/social level, are really just the cracks appearing in consensus reality. If six billion people die "real" physical deaths, and a shamanic few manage to experience identity death and so "survive" the shift while in their bodies, we will all be realizing the exact same thing: we are not this. We are elsewhere, and we are Other.

We ARE the Other, and it is Us.

It will be a celebration, all right. What it won't be is a continuation of what we think we know, about ourselves or about *anything*.

As Jim wrote, this is great discussion and it is a tribute, Aeolus, to your own courage to tackle taboo subjects that others dare not touch. Where else on the web is this topic being covered with such depth?

The discussion brings up for me a famous haiku by the Japanese Buddhist poet Issa. He wrote, after the deaths of two of his recently born children and following a string of other personal tragedies:

“The world of dew is a world of dew And yet, and yet….”

In my opinion, this poem really sums up the Buddhist philosophy of the Two Truths (and I’m not a Buddhist I just think that Buddhism very clearly expresses what is often fairly cloudy in other mystical traditions) and can shed enormous light on the present thread as well.

The first line neatly encapsulates the realization behind what we have been calling cosmic or galactic consciousness. Dew may be sparkly and beautiful in the early morning sun but it soon evaporates into nothingness. It is an illusion in other words. It is truly empty of its own individual nature, just as you wrote that we all are Aeolus, and it is senseless to imagine and to hope that it will last forever. Anyone with awareness will quickly realize this.

The second line, though, is our human perspective shining through once again. “And yet, and yet…” No matter how aware or enlightened we think we are, we are still living, breathing human beings who deeply grieve at the loss of loved ones, at the destruction of beauty and at blatant injustice. Issa is making the obvious point that this is who we are.

Beyond this, though, he is making a deeper point. He is not saying that this is normal, mundane human understanding, as this is written by one who profoundly knows the illusory nature of the world. Instead he is saying that this IS the understanding of those who strive for true awareness. It is, as I wrote before, a higher spiral back to the Heart. Without the “and yet” we do not truly know that the world is just “dew” and what a miraculous thing that is.

Why do we seek for such a “shift” in consciousness? For my own part, and I suspect that this is the case for many others as well, it precisely because I am concerned about human injustice, such as war, imperialism and mass killing, that I strive for another way of thinking and being.

If “galactic consciousness” was only possible upon the deaths of six billion people, I would take the six billion if given a choice. Screw your Enlightenment! If this is “resistance” then so be it. I resist! Resistance, it is true, may build up the force of that which it is resisting, or it may, if it is effective as in the martial arts, deflect that force to some place where it does not harm itself or others.

But I don’t even think all this is the case. Personally I feel that the “shift” has already taken place, and in a way has always been there. The Buddha, saints, mystics, shamans of all times and cultures experienced full awareness within this world, the Spell, the Matrix. In Mahayana Buddhism it is affirmed that samsara is nirvana. The whole cycle of birth and rebirth, which is Maya the original Matrix, is the realm of enlightened awareness.

There is no “shift” in physical terms that needs to take place. Certainly there is no guarantee that death will release us from samsara, individually or collectively. Mass death may provoke a boost in consciousness (although it would be an endless debate on whether the mindblowingly bloody wars of the twentieth centuries actually caused this) or such a boost might come from something as simple as “staring into the garden” ;)

Why the need for a bloody, order from chaos, Hollywood ending?

The most radical and subversive sects of the Middle Ages were those who affirmed that as Christ died for the sins of all humanity, then we are really all back in the Garden right now. There is then no need for Church or State or Dogma. We are already free and we just need to realize this. And, more importantly, how do we really know that others, consciously or unconsciously, have not realized this?

The eggs I want to break for my omelet are the eggs of closed minds and dogmatic ideas including the old tired Hegelian dictum that the Climax of History requires bloody catastrophe. I have no taste for the cracked eggs of the soft bodies of those that are loved by myself and others.

Hi aeolus. Your comment about how weaving, etc is good to do now because we are slowly aligning ourselves with what always is, has been and will be really hit me. Many weavers, including me, do what they do because it connects them to the ancient ways, even to the archetypal...the Norns, spinners and weavers of fate. I guess I'm trying to say that my identity is not tied to the things I own or the clothes I wear or how much money I make or the job I do...it is not tied to anything current or even contemporary (as a matter of fact, I have been working for years to deliberately untie it from such things). But for many average people, they very much define themselves by all of the above criteria... it is very important for them to be current and modern, and I have seen people fall apart when they lost the job that gave them their identity. But I have tried to develop a sense of timelessness and often have the feeling that my real being elsewhere...that my real being is not here and now, but eternal...that this, whatever I happen to be doing at the moment (by which I mean this incarnation, this life), is just that; what I happen to be doing at the moment. So, I guess I imagined my way into a different way of being by telling myself a different story, and that this is what is happening now on a collective level. Or maybe better, that on a collective level we are starting to shed an identity that was never really truely ours and that even BETTER, that we are starting to conciously realize this (starting to dis-identify with the aggressor). Maybe we are finally starting to grow a heart.

“Nor do I accept that our controllers actually want to bring about mass death—…”

This is a good point as it would seem that keeping people alive and locked into negative resonance patterns is more in line with interests of the PTMB (powers that make believe).

The Earth seems to currently be a rich energy farm. There is plenty of energy in the system, but it seems that it is not very well shaped or directed.

It’s funny, I had lost contact, because of a computer change and a misspelling of the website, for some material I liked awhile back. This is the old material; http://montalk.net/metaphys/68/true-reality-creation-part-i

In a new short book called “Fringe Knowledge for Beginners”, (free e-book) Tom points out that anticipated events are less likely to happen. I agree, and have never before made explicit claims for an ‘optimistic’ outcome. Still, within the podcast, that was the thing that caught my attention. Juan Flores, a person that seems to have an intimate connection with the implicate, the ineffable, the primal, the pre-manifest, or whatever it is, made the claim. Personally, I have no problem with an optimistic outcome including a lot of death. But this has to be heavily qualified in that death in context is more acceptable than is death resulting from suffering manufactured as a commodity. We all die and most suffer quite a lot along the way, but surely, a better map of reality can reduce the trauma involved.

Ally with positive polarity energy, as best you can, under the assumption that whatever ‘transitions’ we find ahead of ourselves; our best aid comes from higher freq. resonance engagements. If life itself is a regenerative force, whether human or non, it tries to propagate in the manner to which it is accustomed. And if trauma is connected to our little-self not paying attention to the signals of the higher-self, then perhaps if we raise the signal to noise ratio, more little-selves will realize their ability and the rewards for getting in the game.

I feel what swampjism is saying, and it was very well said. The next phase need not be the blood bath the myth makers would have us believe.

Perhaps the death of the sixth sun is upon us now, is it possible the Gregorian calendar is four years off? Notice the relationship between solar activity and stocks. Notice the inverse relationship between Israel and the Sun.

Sounder wrote "The Earth seems to currently be a rich energy farm. There is plenty of energy in the system, but it seems that it is not very well shaped or directed." It is precisely shaped and directed, but not towards your preconceived ideas of form. Don't compare rows of corn with a fish farm.

It is curious that Aeolus and Jehovah are both fixated on lubing the gears with blood. Certainly, death is no terrible thing, but neither is it a means to an end.

Are we ready to send Jehovah packing, to go live with Zeus, or will Jehovah be getting another makover?

Can we move past the scapegoats and atonement through the blood of others?

It is time to grow up, and put to rest the role of Jehovah's voodoo savages.

If you had talked with me a few years back i would have been in the mass death is inevitable camp. my relationship with juan flores and the plants has changed that. i do not necessarily feel like my claims of a more "optimistic" outcome is an opinion.

I feel its a message that I am here to give.

i personally know that juan is in the know himself.this man does his work to be there and works intimately with the great galactic spirits and all the gods.

i agree death is nothing to judge or fear. its is but a word. most of us our "dead" already. and really there is no difference between life and death.

but i also believe that the divine has set up a drama before us to maximize impact on global consciousness through a great revelation of the glory of god and all that is. why else would we have such a wide reaching telecommunication network, but of course to reveal the glory to all in the most powerful of ways.

we can all debate all we want, but the time is coming fast upon us regardless. the new kingdom is here.

i must admit I do cringe at ideas of a preserved shamanic elite and the such. to me what is measured and preserved by the divine is the heart, humility and compassion, not shamanic powers.

why wait for mass death when we can just organize a celebration of life right now.

Sorry for coming on so strong here. It's just that the whole topic is getting under my gills lately (Gaza and etc.).

I don't mean to be hard on Aeolus either. I've never seen this viewpoint being expressed so thoughtfully. I appreciate everybody who is willing to jump into this very important debate -- whether it ultimately matters or not.

First off, thanks to swampjism for bringing in a much needed shot of *human* expression. I very consciously kept that out of my own posts in an attempt to simulate what I perceive as a more “galactic” (impersonal) viewpoint in which human individuals have no more or less value than any other collection of atoms.

However, I feel exactly as SJ does, and so it’s time to admit that, to some extent, my proselytizing is a brave face to cover my own vulnerability, not to say terror, in the face of a very uncertain, and inescapably apocalyptic, future. I have experienced such things as the death of a cat as truly soul-shattering events in my life, so make no mistake I am no better prepared at a *personal* level for the events I foresee than any of you, or rather, I am no less sensitive TO them.

It does need to shine through, and the anguish we feel at the delicacy and fragility of our humanness is as real as anything, and is I feel the very breath and current of “enlightenment.” In a way, this is the point. If the idea of a collective celebration depends on us having things the way we, our fragile and insecure egos, would have it, then I want no part of it. I am only interested in movement towards, and opening to, what is Truth. Perhaps some of you (like the Count) detect a morbid, Old Testament thirst for blood in my posts, and maybe you are at least partially right. But I think such a predilection is playing considerably less a part in my “knowing” than other people here’s own wishful thinking is in theirs.

SJ: >Why do we seek for such a “shift” in consciousness? For my own part, and I suspect that this is the case for many others as well, it precisely because I am concerned about human injustice, such as war, imperialism and mass killing, that I strive for another way of thinking and being.

Best not to speak for others. I would say, or hope, that it is because we want the truth, no matter what it brings to the light of consciousness.

SJ: > If “galactic consciousness” was only possible upon the deaths of six billion people, I would take the six billion if given a choice. Screw your Enlightenment!

This pretty much sums up what I am trying to put under the microscope here. Our arrogance in thinking we know better than Life, that we can - and not only can but are somehow divinely inspired to - impose our wills upon the natural order of things, to impede the movement of Truth through this beautiful Universe, and to say “No, our way is better than this!” I feel many here are projecting their fear of and hostility towards what IS onto the Masonic sorcerers and their supposed “mythic narrative” as a way of weaseling out of the reality of our own complicity in this narrative. In the end, of course, any preference is redundant. So for me to challenge Jim or SJ’s preference for the happy celebration of billions of humans (whom I perceive as) locked into untruth, by stating that a die-off will allow a return into the current of Truth, is itself an expression of preference. Because who is to say that a smaller group of shamanized humans living in humility and truth and harmony with Nature is preferable to a blind, zombie mass of microchipped human cattle living under a totalitarian elitist regime? It is just preference. But *as I see it,* albeit put in very simplistic terms, this is the choice we are faced with.

SJ: >If this is “resistance” then so be it. I resist! Resistance, it is true, may build up the force of that which it is resisting, or it may, if it is effective as in the martial arts, deflect that force to some place where it does not harm itself or others.

Resistance never works, in martial arts or anything else. Opposition *can* work, if it entails sticking to what is true in face of untruth. But even this is unnecessary finally: if we open to what we fear, it loses its power to harm us. Truth can absorb and dissolve any amount of untruth: but one spark of truth is enough to undo millennia of lies.

SJ: > But I don’t even think all this is the case. Personally I feel that the “shift” has already taken place, and in a way has always been there.

I’m sorry to have to get tough with you all, but you are living in a dream world. I think too much magical thinking has scrambled your brains. We are on the verge of something truly mind-blowing, and our resistance to the idea of mass death as something “negative” just shows, to me, how unready we are, even conceptually, for the magnitude of what is coming, as a species and as individuals. I can say this: the loss of identity which (*I* believe) is our only possibility for survival now will be far more “terrifying” (and undesirable) than any “horrible” death by apocalypse could ever be. Those of us who begin to experience this “shift” may well wish we’d been numbered with the lucky “expendables.” Galactic consciousness is nothing anyone in their right mind would volunteer for, and those dumb enough to do so, soon regret it. We are all exactly where and who we need to be right now. The shift is coming not because of us but despite us. That is the human reality.

SJ: > There is no “shift” in physical terms that needs to take place.

I disagree. The environmental crisis, real or fabricated, and alien abductions and all of paranoid awareness in its many forms, is proof that we are taking the Imaginal process into the realms of the actual. This is what this is all about. Do some of us actually think we are going to usher in a new age of galactic consciousness and still get to shop at 7/11 and have cable TV?! Say it isn’t so! I am not prophesying doom here. I am stating what IS. If we want to live in what is not, and keep our precious identities and preferences for parties over apocalypse (or the reverse!), then what IS seems like an imposition to us, an so we tell ourslevs we can change what IS through magical thinking. The flaw is that if we were really in a place to think and act magically, we wouldn’t WANT to change what IS. We would accept it and open to it.

SJ: >Certainly there is no guarantee that death will release us from samsara, individually or collectively.

True. Death is really a very small part of what is happening here; it’s more than a side effect, but not actually a cause. More like a literalization of a much subtler process. Death, like everything else in life, is a metaphor for something else. Ditto the Apocalypse. What I perceive here isn’t just resistance to the idea of mass death, but also to the metaphor hidden behind it, which is: total and utter change, identity loss (which hinges around a preference for and pursuit of happiness, and the rejection of suffering), and the corresponding Revelation of Truth.

SJ: >or such a boost might come from something as simple as “staring into the garden” ;)

Sure, if you can get 6 billion souls to drop out of the personal and stare into the garden. Good luck with that one.

SJ: >Why the need for a bloody, order from chaos, Hollywood ending?

Don’t ask me, ask yourself. You are part of this narrative too, as your resistance to it proves.

SJ: > And, more importantly, how do we really know that others, consciously or unconsciously, have not realized this?

It’s an assumption, I admit, but a pretty well-informed one. Try turning on your TV. But if you want to play the “how do we really know?” game, how do we know that the six billion other souls “out there” even exist? How do we know they aren’t holograms created by the archons, and that there are only 144,000 of us here after all? Or maybe just one of us—you?

AG: > Or maybe better, that on a collective level we are starting to shed an identity that was never really truly ours and that even BETTER, that we are starting to consciously realize this (starting to dis-identify with the aggressor). Maybe we are finally starting to grow a heart.

The snake sheds her skin. Those who identify with the skin, perceive mass death events. Those who align with the snake, experience the birth of something beautiful and new. You cannot separate the two perceptions, however, because it is one process, and one event, perceived from two different POVs.

Sounder: >Juan Flores, a person that seems to have an intimate connection with the implicate, the ineffable, the primal, the pre-manifest, or whatever it is, made the claim.

What is this assumption based on – Jim’s accounts, or something else? Personally I don’t assume someone knows anything just because they have shamanic “credentials.”

Sounder: > We all die and most suffer quite a lot along the way, but surely, a better map of reality can reduce the trauma involved.

Yes. Which is part of my intent here in this place, with these posts.

C of C: > I feel what swampjism is saying, and it was very well said. The next phase need not be the blood bath the myth makers would have us believe.

WE are the mythmakers here. The elite are really only playing the *role* of controllers and leaders. It’s just an appearance. They are using our unconscious to weave their narrative, which means it is US who unconsciously wish for a “blood bath,” not “them.” All the very heartfelt expressions of resistance to the idea we are hearing here would seem to confirm this. One more time: There IS no them, only Us.

C of C: > It is curious that Aeolus and Jehovah are both fixated on lubing the gears with blood. Certainly, death is no terrible thing, but neither is it a means to an end.

I call “foul.” I am not calling for sacrifice. *I am sharing what I know to be true.*

C of C: > Are we ready to send Jehovah packing, to go live with Zeus, or will Jehovah be getting another makover?

Uh, Count, Zeus and Jehovah are the same god! Jove = Jehovah = Jupiter = Zeus. God of thunderbolts, yeah? The golden age of humanity was under Saturn, who devoured his children. Think about that one for a while. Things went screwy when Zeus took over. Check your mythology. Zeus/Jupiter is joy and humility, sure, but also excess, self-indulgence, and gullibility! Can we have a little more of the rigors and discernment (and “sacrifice”) of Saturn?

C of C: > Can we move past the scapegoats and atonement through the blood of others?

Why assume we are talking about the blood of others? I am speaking about OUR blood here, kids. If I’m right, the odds of even *one* of us physically surviving the times ahead are slim to negligible. Tried identity death recently?

C of C: > It is time to grow up, and put to rest the role of Jehovah's voodoo savages.

Like saying it can make it so! Sounds to me like the Count is in denial of his primal? : /

Jim: > I do not necessarily feel like my claims of a more "optimistic" outcome is an opinion. I think it is a heartfelt hope, and I certainly wouldn’t criticize you for that. It can also be “a message that I am here to give,” and there’s nothing wrong with that either. Except that, if you are wrong, people may be a tad pissed with you about it; while if I am wrong, I don’t think anyone is going to mind too much! ; )

Jim: >I personally know that juan is in the know himself. this man does his work to be there and works intimately with the great galactic spirits and all the gods.

Every shaman is a trickster. Their idea of truth is very different from what most of us consider truth. Like the oracle with Neo: they tell us “exactly what we need to hear.”

Jim: > I must admit I do cringe at ideas of a preserved shamanic elite and the such.

Guilty as charged: it IS a cringe worthy idea, one that can’t be spoken without becoming a partial lie. But still, apparently it needs to be spoken, because our denial of this energetic reality goes so deep that it is screwing up our reasoning processes.

Jim: > why wait for mass death when we can just organize a celebration of life right now.

Who said anything about waiting? I hate to state the obvious, or rain on everyone’s parade, but there is a world of satanic ritual abuse going on right now, under our noses. How exactly are we going to square that with our big galactic rave-up? Just more skeletons shoved into the closet? There are thousands of years of generational wounds that need to be healed—they aren’t going to heal themselves, and they can’t be tended without first being looked at. I see, or feel in my gut, a strong under layer of denial at work here.

Hi aeolus. Anyone who has experienced a personal breakdown knows it not something to wish for, but maybe most people don't know what a psychotic break feels like? Well, at the risk of being too personal, I am here to tell them it is truely terrifying. And if this is what is going to happen collectively, it will make the Dark Ages look like a picnic. We are a profoundly traumatized species. As far as I have been able to piece together, we live in a profoundly altered solar system and when the shift from the Saturnian system to the present one happened it threw us into collective traumatic amnesia...we are deeply, deeply dissociated. On the personal level, when I started to shed my false identity, the process started with a bout of parnoid schizophrenia that lasted about two weeks, and only by dint of will did I pull myself out of it. This happened to me about 30 years ago, and since then my life has been about integrating the experience and experiences about my personal history of which I had no memory. I am convinced that I suffered the psychotic break because the experience that caused my dissociation was one of fear of annihilation...someone almost beat me to death when I was less than 1 year old...I faced death before I was even old enough to have an ego, therefor the experience was profoundly shattering. This is what I think the human race experienced together not that long ago, well within historical times. We faced annihilation before we had a collective ego to use as a point of reference and give us strength, so the experience was profoundly shattering to us. In my own way I, too, am guilty of putting a happyface on what I feel is coming. I, too, feel that it is likely almost no one will survive and that the race will die. And while from a cosmic or galactic, impersonal standpoint is is nothing to cry over, from a human standpoint, what could be worse? We all have loved ones that we don't want to see die (oddly enough, my one cat died recently). What will it be like when we know that our children and parents, who may be many miles away, are probably dead or dying and we can do absolutely nothing to help them? The only solution, as aeolus keeps trying to tell us, is to align with the snake and not with the skin. I am going to try to be glad that I am a concious witness to all of this in spite of the personal grief, fear, horror, terror, etc, etc that I will also feel...I dont want those to be the only feelings I take with me into the beyond. I hope I havent offended anyone by being too personal. It was not done gratuitously, but with the feeling that this is not a time for reticence. As any peek behind the curtain will show (read "Programed to Kill: the Politics of Serial Murder by David McGowan) and the events in Gaza and elsewhere show, this world NEEDS TO END even if we all have to die to do it. Jehova has devoured just about all the energy we have to give and sometimes the host must die to kill the parasite.

Yes Mr. K, I know Jehovah and Zeus are the same, hence the "will Jehovah be getting another makover?" comment. Perhaps I should have crafted my phrasing more carefully. The comment was directed towards what the general populace considers a "legitimate god".

Mr. K said *I am sharing what I know to be true.*

Mr. K also said "Like saying it can make it so"

Words made flesh, but you are correct, saying it doesn't necessarily make it so, unless of course it's something you know to be true.

Let us hear more of what you know to be true.

Auroragirl said "Jehova has devoured just about all the energy we have to give and sometimes the host must die to kill the parasite." I used to consider the human condition through this analogy too, and I can't honestly disagree today. It does recontextualize Mr. K's die off in my own mind. Death is not an issue, I can only speak for myself when I say life never really happens, but I don't find anything primal in surrender.

Thanks, aeolus, I'm glad you didn't mind. And Count of C: Just to clarify in case my wording was ambiguous: Jehova is the parasite, not humanity, because I am not quite sure who you are refering to in your comment. Just as an aside, because I don't want to sidetrack this discussion, I've always wondered if I have a Cathar or a Templar in my lineage somewhere.

Excellent rebuttals, Aeolus, but I still think there is more left to say. (And I’m going to, yet again, make the perhaps false assumption that this is not all a solipsistic fantasy. Please bear with me if you indeed exist!)

I respect that your primary concern here is with a galactic viewpoint. This is a very welcome change to the “human-all-too-human” blatherings that one can find on most websites and it is likely the biggest reason why I was attracted to your podcast and blog in the first place.

I also appreciate that you let us in here on a glimpse of your soft and squishy side. This is reassuring. Like you I have been devastated by the loss of someone I cared for, and I have also been utterly terrified (and then strangely accepting) when I became convinced that I was facing my own death.

These two viewpoints, the impersonal and the personal, are certainly the real focus of this discussion.

We are all rightly critical of the human perspective. It views everything through the lens of dualism: the self and the other, subject and object, me and the world, Us versus Them, and all of the oppositions and dichotomies that stem from these. This is precisely the source of all that is ugly around us – war, ecological destruction, greed, envy, hatred – in short, separation. And most importantly, as you point out, this dualistic viewpoint prevents us from attaining the Truth of the One.

The way out of this predicament is certainly not to fight against it. This only creates yet another dichotomy and we are brought back into the hall of mirrors. The way out is upwards. This is where impersonal or galactic consciousness enters in. Here the vision is non-dualistic and the self is shattered into the endless nothingness of the universe. This is necessarily the most terrifying thing imaginable and at the same time, by most accounts, the most blissful.

What I was trying to articulate, though, is that there is a third perspective. The second, although fantastic, is limited. It aims to be non-dualistic but there is really one more domino left to fall. This is the opposition between the human-centred dualistic consciousness and the non-dualistic consciousness of the impersonal perspective. The latter, in other words, is still mired in dualism. The third step is the non-dualism beyond these two points of view. (Is there a dualism of non-dualism and dualism beyond this, and yet another non-dualism beyond this new dualism? Yes. The third step takes us to the infinite.)

This third perspective brings us back down to the human realm, but with a new awareness. No longer do we see ourselves as being separated from others, however, nor do we view human bodies and the physical existence of nature itself as being merely shells or skin containing all important consciousness or spirit. There is no difference between the two. At this stage empathy and compassion with humanity and all of nature arises spontaneously – Issa’s “and yet”. This is by no means the same as the personal perspective although its zeal toward all life is at the best times comparable.

And yes it involves seeing things as they truly ARE. In this sense, even from the point of view of galactic consciousness where human life is equal to all other life, mass death is occurring all of the time. Millions of creatures are dying everyday. If this is what is needed to bring about a change in consciousness then the Earth should have reached the Millennia millions and billions of years ago. Maybe it did!

If it is human death (and then why would it be so special?) that is needed to bring about the “shift” then there has always been plenty of that of that as well. If it involves the release of vast energy by the deaths of billions at once, then all I can say is -- who is it that is really engaged in “magical thinking” here?

So the third stage does see things as they ARE (and I’m not saying I’ve reached this stage at all. At best I’ve had a couple of peeks but mostly I bounce around from the first to the second stages in the midst of a lot of drunkenness to boot). Mass death occurs at every instant – but so does mass birth! There is a “shift” happening right now just out our windows!

Aeolus, you present our options for the future in stark terms:

“Because who is to say that a smaller group of shamanized humans living in humility and truth and harmony with Nature is preferable to a blind, zombie mass of microchipped human cattle living under a totalitarian elitist regime? It is just preference. But *as I see it,* albeit put in very simplistic terms, this is the choice we are faced with.”

It is certainly possible that one of these scenarios will become an eventuality, but I believe that the Universe is big enough and mysterious enough to allow for many more possibilities than these two. If it is at all possible that our visions and hopes (and our fears and suppressions) have some bearing on the course of future events then why not explore other possibilities?

Here’s one from Bucky Fuller:

“To make the world work for 100% of humanity in the shortest possible time through spontaneous cooperation without ecological offense or the disadvantage of anyone.”

Pretty good. Of course, this can be picked apart and analyzed and deconstructed, but that’s beside the point. It is another vision, another possibility. Juan Flores’ and Jim’s is another. Are any of them inevitable? Here is another possibility: mass death occurs by human hand because we all accept it as unavoidable and our destiny, and the few individuals that are left are as selfish, greedy and violent as they were at any other time in history.

One last point and I’ll stop haunting your blog if you’d like. Please forgive me for my “screw your enlightenment” remarks. I was in a snarky mood then. I don’t seriously think that I would be given much of a choice between mass death or enlightenment for the few. I would do my best to resist (or oppose if you’d like) any threat of violence against myself or those I love, but resistance against “mass death” itself is too much of an abstraction. Like I said, I have faced my own potential death and the death of someone close to me. When does it become “mass” in scale and when does it become just an abstract idea. Certainly the “death of billions” will not likely be directly experienced by anyone.

I am, though, opposed to the idea that simultaneous mass human death is an inevitability or somehow a necessity. Why would it be? I will try to accept massive annihilation if and when it comes, or at least the small part I would experience of it, and I do not entirely rule it out as a possibility. But I will always argue against the notion that we have to embrace it in order to somehow elevate our consciousness. Why? Am I trying to suppress my middle class guilt? Am I living in an unrealistic dream world? Am I some sort of pansy? Maybe all of those things and more. But mostly I reject this idea because I think it is false.

ah-ha! Now we are getting somewhere. In the end all that is being argued here, at a nuts-n-bolts level, is whether or not we think a cataclysm is coming, and whether it will inevitably bring about the death of a disproportionately large percentage of the species. I believe this is inevitable, and that the evidence before us is *more or less* irrefutable; many here don't feel teh same way. I say this may be denial, Jim and others counter that (effectively) I just need to "open" to a brighter perspective. Maybe. But AG has shown - by out Pluto-ing the Pluto-master - that not only am i not alone in my POV but that there are others who see things even more bleakly. Main thing: I am not arguing FOR the mass death event: i am presenting the evidence of my experience for why i have come to see this process through this particular lens, so you can partake of that POV and decide for yourself. To this end, I will share more personal background in my next post, probably tomorrow, and also try to answer C of C's invitation to share something of what i know to be true (tho I thought that was what i was already doing)

curious to know if much missed fellow psychonauts are observing silently behind the scenes, or have since left the building: Cary? Lance? Vicki? Eunice? John? Louis? Brian G? Floyd? Any chance of hearing thy thoughts?

SJ: the "third step" you describe seems to echo, consciously or not, what I wrote in a recent post:

The “external” trinity is this: Ahriman, Lucifer, and Christ. All are aspects of Man, internally experienced as mind, heart, and soul—or intellect, feeling/imagination, and will.

...

The key is to bring them into harmony as a triangle of forces, i.e., a single force with three aspects: negative, positive, and—for lack of a better word—“transcendent.” This can only come about, however, by first aligning the forces, as separate functions within us, with the Impersonal, while simultaneously “grounding” or earthing the Archetypal forces (entities) in the personal, i.e., humanizing them, allowing them access to our normal awareness, thereby transforming it.

I'm going to forgo any comments already made(as there are so damn many to choose from!) and just give my thoughts on the whole idea of a mass death scenario.

Firstly, I do NOT believe that mass-death is necessary for any kind of shift in consciousness to occur. Would such a situation produce a shift? You're goddamn right it would! But is it a necessary precursor to a shift? Well, I suppose it depends on what we mean when we say "shift".

Second, I think that if we're going to deal with a subject like this then we need to make sure it is balanced by it's exact opposite. By that I mean, well, we don't really know if some intentional kill-off is going to occur, it's all speculation at this point, so if we're going to speculate onto one side and say that yes, they are going to wipe out 90% of us. . .then, we have to balance that out by accepting that no, "they" are not going to do so and then we must act accordingly.

I don't know about all of you, but I once fell for the trap that says "Yes Only" to this question. It's TOO MUCH negativity and uncertainty to deal with, it gets nothing done and is, again, speculation to the extreme. Sure, there are plenty of reasons to believe such a thing might occur, but also plenty of reasons to believe it won't happen either.

Balance is key here, as always.

I will say that I had the thought one day(yes I was very stoned) that perhaps there are some kind of plans in the works, but they just are not ready yet. The places are still being set up. So here you have empty train stations being converted into prisons and such under the guise of a possible influx of immigrants, and these facilities remain empty for decades perhaps. But they are there. I honestly don't believe that a takeover could occur in America right now. It would take disasters off the charts for such a thing to occur. An army that is vastly populated would be required, and I think first they would need to take our guns(a process that is being hinted at with new ammunition legislations). So, the "shadow elite" or whatever you call them on any given sunday set these things up very quietly over a long period of time until the day they are ready. Again, I just don't think they'll be ready any time soon.

When they can effectively strip us of firepower, when we have to show identification to go just about anywhere outside of our local areas, then we need to really start being concerned of this possibility.

That being said, what if this doesn't happen? What will the "shift" be like and how will it be precipitated?

I think the Internet is key here, as are psychedelic/shamanic experiences. I do believe that we are waking up a higher consciousness Noosphere both organic and mechanical, and perhaps that will be our true test. Can we handle it? Will we drop it and kill ourselves in the process? Will the human race have a collective psychotic episode, only to be resolved at some future date with peace and love and free sex!?!?!?

All these questions and more I just don't have the answers to. But, as someone mentioned recently on the Grow Report Forum, it's seems that psychology is in the air, we connecting our minds with these podcasts and the Internet in general, and so there is definitely SOMETHING going on here, that much is obvious!

Oh, and one more point to cap off this long post. Regarding this notion of some impending, climactic, apocalyptic event, I would refer the intrepid sojourner to the work of Dr. Stanislav Grof and his theory of the Perinatal Matrices. Basically, he says that our psyche is immensely shaped during that actual birth process and so much of our collective outpourings can be seen in this light.

So imagine being in the fetus, that is the Utopia we'd all love, then the crazy days we're just getting through is the first pushings through the birth canal, and then the point we're coming to is the point where the baby doesn't know if it's going to make it, the pressure is building up and it thinks it's going to die. This is accompanied in the psyche(personal and collective) by visions of apocalypses and holocausts, the most brutal and bloody scenes imaginable. So perhaps what's really going on is that we're all collectively freaking out because we honestly think things can't get any better and "we're all going to die!" but then, just as in birth, we suddenly emerge from the birth canal and take our first breath of air. . .And then, where do we go from there?

I'd like to challenge the idea that the fetus's life if always paradise, because that certainly is not the case. Some children are not wanted, and they know it before birth...I know I did. And some mothers are have poor nutrition and/or are stressed by poverty and low wages or other pressures and/or battered by their partners, which would make for a very hard emotional environment for the fetus. And I'm also sure that while some babies don't want to be born, there are others that look forward to the day, but in most Western births until recent years, all this took place in the "fetus frightening room" which was cold and had glaring lights.

Secondly, loss of identity is not something like changing careers or getting a different job. It is almost impossible to describe what loss of identity feels like because nothing in everyday life can describe it...there is nothing to compare it to except death itself. Isn't that why any kind of change is met with such intense resistance in the first place, because it entails a death of the ego? Even minor changes in identity, like job loss or divorce can cause people with strong egos to go to pieces (and that's with an intact society around them). What will it be like if society starts to fall apart and there is no longer an "outside" to shore people up and give them hope and strength? How many people will be able to withstand such a thing without losing their mind completely? I could go on, but you get my drift. So maybe mass death isn't NECESSARY for a change in conciousness to occur, but it seems like it is inevidible due to the rigors of such a happening.

p.s. Not to mention the Stanislav Grof has some very creepy, shady connections that make anything he says or does highly suspect. I wouldn't listen to what that man has to say for all the tea in China.

“If the idea of a collective celebration depends on us having things the way we, our fragile and insecure egos, would have it, then I want no part of it. I am only interested in movement towards, and opening to, what is Truth.”

The celebration and relief comes when the general population realizes the greater potential of the higher-self, in preference to the stale form fixing efforts of the (insecure) ego. Truth? We will wait on that.

“Because who is to say that a smaller group of shamanized humans living in humility and truth and harmony with Nature is preferable to a blind, zombie mass of microchipped human cattle living under a totalitarian elitist regime? It is just preference. But *as I see it,* albeit put in very simplistic terms, this is the choice we are faced with.”

The notion that either a small group of shamans or a large group of zombies will survive is uncalled for. As it is, even the ‘shaman’ only has a rather compromised picture of deeper realities. If however, the shaman in his/her blind rooting around in reality, can bring ideas to form; those people may create a new psychical conditioning system that will bring the grace of God (understanding) into all extensions and expressions of creation. If the shaman cannot do this then they deserve to die with the rest of us.

In old times the shaman may have been freaks but they were still seen as protectors of the community, this has not changed.

AK wrote...

"Do some of us actually think we are going to usher in a new age of galactic consciousness and still get to shop at 7/11 and have cable TV?! Say it isn’t so!"

When the general population operates from a deeper level of being, while one may assume that the 7-11’s will close, it does not follow that transcendence of the physical is involved.

AK wrote…

“The “external” trinity is this: Ahriman, Lucifer, and Christ. All are aspects of Man, internally experienced as mind, heart, and soul—or intellect, feeling/imagination, and will.”

Combining Steiner and Heschel,you have repetition to survive, spontaneity to live and we put them together to love. Or Ahriman as intellect that locks us into limiting form expressions periodically altered by fresh imaginal expressions that will eventually lead to an integrating vision.

AK wrote…

“The key is to bring them into harmony as a triangle of forces, i.e., a single force with three aspects: negative, positive, and—for lack of a better word—“transcendent.” This can only come about, however, by first aligning the forces, as separate functions within us, with the Impersonal, while simultaneously “grounding” or earthing the Archetypal forces (entities) in the personal, i.e., humanizing them, allowing them access to our normal awareness, thereby transforming it.”

Because Dualism has driven our psyches for so long, most everyone invests the negative within one category and places the positive in another. Another possibility is that both positive and negative is in every category. The applications of intellect, form making and survival are both positive and negative. Same with imagination and will (I imagine.)

We have been so (unconsciously) insistent on identifying ego with orthodoxy or heresy that we have never noticed that all are victimized by the same false assumption. Huh, fancy that. Who wants to be a shaman now?

I'd like to challenge the idea that the fetus's life if always paradise, because that certainly is not the case. . .

So maybe mass death isn't NECESSARY for a change in conciousness to occur, but it seems like it is inevidible due to the rigors of such a happening.

4:47 AMAnonymous auroragirl said...

p.s. Not to mention the Stanislav Grof has some very creepy, shady connections that make anything he says or does highly suspect. I wouldn't listen to what that man has to say for all the tea in China.

I agree AG that being in the fetus is not all fun and games, but on the whole it is. It is a warm place where everything is provided, you have a direct connection with your mother(you can hear her heartbeat and her nervous system, you get your food directly from her, etc). So in general it is a paradise.

I'm not sure if you were replying to my post when talking about change of identity and ego-loss, but the symbol of the oroborous is a good one to meditate on regarding all of that. . .

As for your negative comments about Stan Grof, well, I've never seen him having any "shady connections" so if you could let me in on what you know that I don't that would be appreciated. All shady connections aside, I'm not interesting in the man but rather the ideas. I would encourage you to read Psychedelic Psychotherapy(which can be found on torrents or I can send you a file if you'd like) to gain a better understanding of the Perinatal Matrices. When looking at the pure information presented, based upon thousands of case studies using LSD and various methods of psychoanalysis(Freudian, Jungian, Adlerian, as well as ideas from Otto Rank and others) then there is a very strong case presented that these archetypal experiences exist within us all and oftentimes are the source of many psychic disturbances. If you've never had a psychedelic or deep unconscious experience then this work might mean very little to you. I know from personal experience that once I discovered his work it certainly was a key to many trying experiences I've had in the past, and also it has given me a wonderful metaphor for examining the collective psyche.

Oh, and I still don't buy that a mass death is a necessary thing for the shift we're experiencing. There is no reason why programs cannot be implemented that would educate the populace about why we need to curb population. This can be done in a process that would span a few generations, but it's doable.

Also, Buckminster Fuller describes the idea that we can sustain 6billion people on this planet, we just have to design our society and technology to meet the challenge. I agree. I do think we need to reduce the population, but I DO NOT see it as necessary or inevitable. But, I do work for THEM so who knows!!! ;-)

ok bottom line question: if everyone on this planet experienced a permanent DMT-style shift to galactic consciousness TODAY - how many of our personal identities and the nervous systems they are hard-wired to (and by) would survive this sudden shift? In your (pl) opinion?

I don't know about you all, but i am personally highly doubtful I could endure such a shift, YET. Which means there's no one *I* know who, based on MY experience of them and their identities, could survive this shift either, at this time.

Ergo: IF a shift to a new level of consciousness is due in the near future for the species, it will, de facto, be apocalyptic and reduce the population to a tiny fraction.

If anyone can persuasively counter this argument with anything solid and scientific and based in personal experience and a real, working, everyday awareness of human psychology, I will be delighted to hear it. Really. And maybe we can move on and I can be happy to be wrong?

As for babes in the womb: it may be physically paradise, which is not to be sniffed at; but at every other level, doesn't a baby experience and exist in the psychic-emotional environment created by the inner life of the mother itself? In which case I'd GUESS that most babes in the womb are also in a kind of hell, just as we all are.

AK Wrote> curious to know if much missed fellow psychonauts are observing silently behind the scenes, or have since left the building: Cary? Lance? Vicki? Eunice? John? Louis? Brian G? Floyd? Any chance of hearing thy thoughts?

I'm still here and silently observing, thanks for asking Aeolus. Though I haven't missed an episode yet, time constraints are keeping me from jumping in on all the great blog posts and discussions. I've also been engaged in some introspection and integration. I will certainly jump back in and contribute sooner rather than later however.

Also, I saw you mention the possibility of a Stormy Weather forum. I think a forum is a great idea and I would like to see it happen!

SJ wrote, “But I don’t even think all this is the case. Personally I feel that the “shift” has already taken place, and in a way has always been there.”

Aeolus responded, “We are on the verge of something truly mind-blowing, and our resistance to the idea of mass death as something “negative” just shows, to me, how unready we are, even conceptually, for the magnitude of what is coming, as a species and as individuals. I can say this: the loss of identity which (*I* believe) is our only possibility for survival now will be far more “terrifying” (and undesirable) than any “horrible” death by apocalypse could ever be.”

—Is it possible that these viewpoints are not mutually exclusive?

To my way of thinking, the cosmos is already as “perfect” as it needs to be, although our perception of this larger context has been obscured from the dawn of recorded history, and perhaps longer. “Apocalypse” pertains to the rolling on and rolling off of stage sets; as embodied in, among other things, the 12 signs of the Zodiac. These “stage sets" activate the potentials that are encoded in the All.

”A world” disappears; the theatre” in which this destruction is carried out does not have to go anywhere, or to “evolve” beyond what is already within its grasp. The future does not necessarily follow upon the past, nor is the past only mechanically active in the present. As one stage set disappears and another one appears, there is an interval, a pregnant pause, a dead zone, in which the vertical and horizontal axes get realigned; we may experience this as an earthquake or a tidal wave that shatters and then reconstitutes the whole of the inter-dimensional structure.

Many new things then become possible, but this may or may not result in the projection of destruction onto physical time/space. It could just as easily result in the ecstasy of a shamanic flight, in the seeding of a more localized “omphalos”, or in the birth of transpersonal memory; two-way contact with what existed before all of history was set in motion.

Our preoccupation with linear ‘evolution” shows our incomplete grasp of the time-cycle, which, while not a form of exact repetition, does not involve the “creation” of any “higher” state of consciousness. Our experience is, in some peculiar way, important. “How” and “why” will at some point be self-evident, but are now, perhaps, self-evident only to our Doubles.

In the end, perhaps courage is of more importance than any sharpening of our prophetic skills. "For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror which we still are just able to endure, and we are so awed because it serenely disdains to annihilate us. Every angel is terrifying.”—Rilke.

Here is an excerpt from my book “To Akasha/ Part 1; An Incantation for the End of History”, which explores a number of the issues discussed above in this forum. “Akasha”, a female personification of the memory of space, and “the courier”, my alter-ego, are the two main characters. In these sections, “the courier” is being carried on a “mile-high wave”, as it rampages over and takes apart the surface of the Earth. The excerpt begins at the end of section 8 and continues through section 11. It reads as follows:

“His seed has staged a jailbreak out of the urinal of Hermes. Through the wavebands of Atlantic blue your broken SS swimmer surges. He is borne away still singing on the surface of the mile high troughs.

He now identifies himself with ocean. His body has become the body of an ocean- an ocean now expanding and boiling to all compass points. An ocean now dismantling the grammar of the corpse of 1 world language. An ocean now unfastening with force the great rainbow bra of Asia. An ocean laying siege to silos of the Soviet experiment. An ocean now uncoupling into the quadrants of the sky.

9

Stories become simultaneous. Recitations echo in a multitude of languages. Your courier has followed the contraction of 5 ages into the data-packet of 1 human ego, and then out again to the circumference of space. The planets are cardboard cutouts. It is possible to peek behind them.

He would bring to you what is not and cannot be known by the walkers of the sky, by those messengers never subject to amnesia, by those who have not jumped head first into death. Like a mother he would bear the bones of Auschwitz and of Buchenwald.

10

The age of iron has approached its end. Heaven is untuned. Libra- bound and gagged. The constellations screw each other. The sun burns out.

Guardian aliens on their radar screens now supervise his progress. He has been plotted out on each 1 of the 10 dimensions of a fractal wave. He now flies against the face of the unmanifest. Against the letter of the law he has warred through all of history. It is the letter that kills. He is innocent. There is clean blood on his hands.

Your singer has dismantled Allah on the quartz heights of Afghanistan. He now rides the wave convulsing up the lightning spine of Atlas. He has lifted from the back of Atlas the imagined weight of worlds. He has lashed with laws of occult harmony the miles of Mt. Meru. He has scoured the crystal of Mt. Kanaloa.

He has laid siege to the boundary of a sphere, to the 7th chakra of the 3rd blue planet.

Your Islamic Elvis has now goose-stepped over Israel towards a star. He now swivels on a typhoon through the Golan Heights. His legs are lightning. A tornado is his megaphone. His wave towers up the steppes of Assur and the crags of the Transcaucasus.

The great white Tetragramaton has shattered on a cliff. Whalebones by the thousands burn on the heights of Macchu Picchu.

11

Assiyah, "the world of making," has now drawn near to climax. The 5th world has approached its end.

Your 1st man sheds a tear. He refuses to excuse the violence of 12,000 years of supermen. He has drowned a migration of horsemen due to insult to his mother.

He now blows up his sex dolls on a wave above Tajikistan. On a ripple over the Forbidden City he now opens canisters of neurotoxin. Hexavalent botulism will cut the zeros from large numbers. Excess reproduction has diluted the primal power of each archetype. There can only be 1 victor in the war of any against all.

He now practices his mantras on a wave above the killing fields of Angkor Watt, above the storage dumps of Colorado. He has weaponized the octaves of the flying buttresses at Chartres. He has let loose gargoyles from the roof of Rheims. On each peak of the Himalayas he has spun on its head an alien.

Earth’s continents have been dismantled into atoms. They are built again as holograms.

He has traveled in a trance above a chaos of Pacific currents. He has stood with his 2 feet planted on the gods at Easter Island. Your man of light now sweats dead potentates from every pore. His black vimana has appeared on the horizon. Its V8 feeds on DNA. It looks like a computer chip, or like a vast transparent city.

He has won acclaim as a volcano god. No virgin offering is ever beautiful enough. He has sucked the wealth from cargo cults. He has provoked a wave of suicides among the cannibals of Borneo.

His active mode geometry has now smashed its way through Luxor. Few appreciate the Sound of Music. The USA has now torn open like a sun. The evangelists and their daughters have been swept from closets by a skeletal Pope Innocent. Flash frozen cities now erupt out of Antarctica. The Roman statues stand erectile on the horrors of the atomic surf.”

Sounder wrote - "In old times the shaman may have been freaks but they were still seen as protectors of the community, this has not changed."

Ha ha, that's truer than you think. The shaman, levites, druids, and general priest-hoodlums are exactly like that guy who offers to "watch your car" for a couple of buck, at first you think you don't need it, but then you notice that XL pipe wrench hanging out of his pocket. Papa shaman sits at the bow of the Federal Reserve Board, or the IMF, and yes, they are still seen as protectors of the community. The actual blood sacrifice is an anachronism. Why bother when you can sacrifice billions upon billions of dollars (via bailouts or whatever) in blood (or at the very least, misery) money to appease the "gods". Only the gods or god is always busy, so let his earthly representatives hold it until Zeus/Jehovah can get an armored mothership around to Earth to pick it up.

All this pie in the sky shamanic ascension global DMT shift talk is fantastic stuff. I wonder if this is the kind of stuff other creatures of prey telepathically communicate to each other when they aren't being chased down and eaten.

Blacklight, refering to S. Grof, I don't see how you can separate the ideas from the man. If you want the dirt of S. Grof, look for yourself because its easy enough to find. And I totally agree with Fuller, after all, we are sustaining 6 billion now, but you are still talking as if everything can change and yet still remain the same, which is what I think AK meant with his comment about the 7-Eleven stores. It seems to me that not one of you (besides AK, of course) really understands the gravity of what an identity shift or loss of identity means. You seem to like to play at it with psychedelics and "rebirthings", but essentially seem to be dilitants, kind of like psycho-tourists. Well, if what I have been sensing my whole life is coming, then you are going to get a bad case of tourista (the shits, in case my spelling is wrong).

First, I've never found any dirt on Stan Grof, and after just googling I came up short again. If it's so easy to find dirt on this guy, what am I doing wrong? And yes I can and do separate the man and the ideas. A perfect example of this is Carlos Castaneda who wrote amazing books but ended up falling into the asshole guru trap.

When I mention Fuller I don't mean it to say that we can still keep living the way we are living now. I disagree with that notion to my very core. I do mean to say that there are possibilities for living on this planet with this many people, that's all. I don't think we need 6billioin people around, especially considering most are unconscious dullards, but hey, I'm just here for the view.

"It seems to me that not one of you (besides AK, of course) really understands the gravity of what an identity shift or loss of identity means. You seem to like to play at it with psychedelics and "rebirthings", but essentially seem to be dilitants, kind of like psycho-tourists. Well, if what I have been sensing my whole life is coming, then you are going to get a bad case of tourista (the shits, in case my spelling is wrong)."

This statement to me is a little baffling and all in all does nothing to add to the conversation in a constructive way. Without knowing anything about me or my understandings and experiences you lump both myself and psychedelic experience and being pscho-tourism, and I'm sorry to say but you couldn't be further from the truth! I full well understand what a change in identity, loss of identity, ego-death, etc is all about. Although you could counter that simply by saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, and the wheel keeps turning. Were you to really address any of my points(which I offered simply because AK invited me to join the convo, btw) then we'd have something to work with. But offhandedly dismissing what I've said just shuts down communication and does not enhance our dialogue.

AK, if everyone were plunged into some ultra consciousness such as found while on DMT then all bets are off and even this conversation we're having is moot. Such an event would change all rules. Does anyone really believe that this is a highly likely possibility? Let's say it happens, well then it's yet another situation we all have to deal with. You, I, or anyone else can't imagine what such a situation would be like or even what to do once it does happen. I'm focusing on this world for now, as well as any higher worlds I'm allowed access to. But really, such a question is unanswerable.

I do sense a shift of sorts coming, although I don't think it will happen to everyone. The veils between worlds seem to be thinning, but I think that only those more sensitive to this will be greatly effected by it, and those are the people who are preparing for such a reality anyway. I don't know what's going to happen any more than anyone else, so such speculation appears to be fruitless. I work every day, every moment, to enhance my own awareness and that is the most I can do. Worrying or wondering if we're all headed for some great shift in dimensional awareness is pointless when I'm preparing myself for such a possibility anyways.

IF we all do suddenly find our self in the 4d, Hyperspace, or whatever then, well, hang on!!! ;-)

Buy the Ticket, Take the Ride.

Back to Auroragirl, I'd like to continue talking with you, although unless you actually add something to this conversation it will be difficult. You do come across as having something to say, and I'd like to bounce ideas, as always. But, for now, I'm baffled by your assertion that I don't understand identity loss, as I have no fucking clue who I am! I mean that seriously and in jest, but seriously, I broke with "me" a very long time ago and have been wandering through the dark forest ever since. . .it's been a long decade.

thanks to Brian G for that pleasantly lateral input, and esp. for the Rilke quote, with is very apropos.

Since what i foresee for the immediate future (as anyone who had read Lucid View would know GRRRR) isn't a million miles away from the christian idea of judgment day, an influx of archetypal energy or demon/angel-invasion that is probably contingent on or synonymous with a spontaneous kundalini rising in the body of the earth, hence of humanity (or is that vice versa?) and yeah, the release of all the latent DMT reservoirs within our bodies and brains.

Why do i believe this? Because it's fun to! As Sancho says, live as if it's gonna happen and we don't have to worry about whether it is or not. One way or another it's our destiny and there ain't no way to escape it.

Sancho - don't mind AG's "attacks" - if you hadn't just arrived (or if you checked some older posts), you'd know that emotionality is AG's way and perhaps learn to enjoy it as (I think) the rest of us have. One thing about AG, she speaks her mind. And she wasn't entirely wrong. When it comes to identity loss, we are all beginners, and anyone who downplays terror and madness in the lead up to galactic ecstasy is either soft-pedaling and sugar-coating, or they just ain't experienced.

Appreciate your candor: i imagine most of us have been "wandering through the dark forest" of identity crisis ever since the penny dropped that multiple personality disorder is the human condition. Time to reign those demons in and ride 'em.

Blacklight: check out www.citizeninitiative.com, make sure to see the link called Neglected Papers on Stanislav Grof. Grof has all the CIA, SRI, Tavistock, Esalen connections that make whatever he has to say suspect in my book. And I wasnt' talking about you personally, just those arm-chair phycho-tourists who think that because they've taken some ayahuasca or DMT in a nice, safe, controled setting or undergone "breathwork", again in a controled setting, that they know what identity loss is all about. I am not saying a person cannot learn some very hard lessons about themselves in this way, because of course they can!, but that isn't what identity loss is. If you want to see identity loss, dissolution of the ego and invasion by the unconcious, go to the "tenderloin" district of any large city. Hell, just go to the Port Authority in New York City. Take a little tour. Talk to a bag lady, or a homeless guy. THAT is what living with identity loss and invasion of the unconcious is like. I was curious about "breathwork" at one time, too, and so I did a Google search, but I found the CI website and the neglected papers on Grof right away, maybe because after reading them I realized that "breathwork" would have been very harmful to me. So perhaps my "greater self", which knows so much more than "I" do, was protecting me, which may be why the info on Grof was easy for me to find. If you had a good experience with it, then I am glad for you. But for me, anything that comes from the background of gov't (or even privite) mind control projects is not to be trusted.

p.s. I have never read Castaneda...the one book of his I tried to read bored me.

I am puzzled by your description of my comment on the “apocalypse” as “lateral”; it is lateral only if it has not been clearly expressed and/ or understood. My point was that apocalyptic images are encoded in the structure of time/ space/ consciousness, and can be encountered, as well as understood, in a great variety of ways. A wholesale “die off” of the human race is one that most immediately comes to mind, but this view appeals, perhaps too mechanically, to our desire for Wagnerian drama, and depends as well upon a suspect concept of linear time.

That the “apocalypse” is “immanent”, I do not doubt; but it is the meaning of the word “immanent” that I would like to call into question.

Let me phrase this in a different way: we must be militantly open in our descriptions of how the horizontal and the vertical axes intersect. Viewed from the perspective of the horizontal axis, the “apocalypse” is the eruption of repressed archetypal forces onto the stage-set of the objective world; it is the projection of the vertical axis onto History; the penetration of dead cultural forms by the violence of primordial energy.

Viewed from the perspective of the vertical axis, however, the “apocalypse” might best be understood as a reflexively triggered spectacle, a trial by fire at the boundary between worlds. It signifies, quite simply, that the explorer has successfully entered into the axis, taking the whole of both the personal and the collective Psyche with him, and is being powered by a sufficiently explosive degree of force. The person who has entered is not the same as the being who will exit.

Blacklight: About fetal life and the direct connection to one's mother. Yes, I know all about how the fetus floats in the amniotic fluid bath and gets its food and oxygen from the mother via the umbilical cord, but what if the mother DOESN'T WANT THE CHILD??? The child will also imbibe the feelling of not being wanted because emotions are biochemical and cross the placenta along with nutrients. The only time I felt wanted by my mother was before she knew she was pregant, while I was nothing more than a zygote (and women unconciously know they are pregnant long before they know it conciously). And I didn't have to use some odd breathing technique to access the knowlege...I just asked the question, "When was the last time I felt wanted by my mother", quieted my mind, and waited. The answer I got was a genuine one, borne of fetal experience and not "thought up" or invented or given to me by "guided imagery" or popular sentiment. That is how I know that fetal life can be very unhappy. So generally, fetal life might be bliss, but individually it definitely might not be, and when you use the general to dismiss the individual, then you are waffling.

Brian: "Lateral thinking is about reasoning that is not immediately obvious and about ideas that may not be obtainable by using only traditional step-by-step logic. Techniques that apply lateral thinking to problems are characterized by the shifting of thinking patterns, away from entrenched or predictable thinking to new or unexpected ideas."

Your injection of poetic fiction into the discussion - a more right-brain mode of expression - struck me as "lateral" because it went straight to the heart of the subject, rather than retaining the usual distance required for intellectual debate.

"Let me phrase this in a different way: we must be militantly open in our descriptions of how the horizontal and the vertical axes intersect. Viewed from the perspective of the horizontal axis, the “apocalypse” is the eruption of repressed archetypal forces onto the stage-set of the objective world; it is the projection of the vertical axis onto History; the penetration of dead cultural forms by the violence of primordial energy."

That's a lovely "definition" (if you'll allow the term), poetic and mysterious, and yet also quite precise. I'm glad i used the rather lazy term "lateral" (my way of admitting that I couldn't fully formulate a response to your input), since it has inspired this more "literal" description from you.

AG: Which Castaneda? If it was "Art of Dreaming," then ignore it: it was (I believe) written by an apprentice after Carlos lost his marbles, based on CC's notes. (There is solid info in it, but it is poorly written and finally unconvincing.) The rest of the books (not counting Wheel of Time compendium and Magical Passes nonsense) are purest alchemical gold - invaluable tools for every budding autist/shaman/schizo/sorcerer.

I agree wholeheartedly with Sancho on this point: proof of pudding is in the eating. Anything we find out about a writer cannot change one iota the content of their books (tho it may cause us to look at them again with a more critical eye).

Hi aeolus. It was The Art of Dreaming. I;ll have to give some of the other ones another try. I knew nothing about any of this stuff when I tried reading it and it seemed like nonsense at the time...but that may be because I tried the wrong book...and it might seem different now because I have grown alot since then (I was and still am, VERY interested in dreaming and dream life). And its that "critical eye" I mean to emphasize when I say I mistrust Grof. I'm sure that that gentleman has vast knowlege (both professional and personal) of the human psyche. But what if the "proof of the pudding" ends up damaging me? Although I respect your opinion, I do not share it and have to go with my gut on this one. I have read about breathwork and was curious about it, but the experience might only be as good as the breathwork coach (or whatever they call themselves). What if they aren't any good? There are diploma mills for these kinds of therapies...a 2 or 3 day course can net a person an impressive looking diploma to hang on the wall and as for references, what proof is there (unless it is a personal acquaintance) that the references are genuine and not people shilling for kickbacks? You said on a SW that you didn't feel comfortable opening your conciousness with a certain person that was at a group session (at any rate, I think that's what you said, forgive me if my memeory is faulty), well, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing breathwork with a coach who wasn't someone I knew very, very well. And even then, given Grof's pedigree, I still wouldn't trust it.

As regards the “encoding” of “apocalyptic” images in the structure of time/ space/ consciousness; I had argued, in my previous post, for an open-ended interpretation of the “die off” of our species, and of all other such “objective correlatives” for our fears. We must guard against what Whitehead refers to as “the fallacy of misplaced concreteness”; one person’s portent is another’s souvenir.

Grof’s “perinatal matrices” also speak to this simultaneous existence of a “beginning” and an “end.” “Apocalyptic’ images are encoded in the very process of our birth; any large-scale “expansion” of the psychonaut’s consciousness can reactivate the trauma of this earlier “contraction”; the experience is overwhelming, and immediate, but when an already completed story is reenacted for a “subject”, does the spectacle take place in the present, in the future, or in the past?

Biology both recapitulates and prefigures the larger process of “cosmogenesis.”

We may feel that some world-shattering event is just around the corner. As always, it is “just about” to occur; this does not mean that the images and emotions generated are not, in fact, the circuitous projections of a “memory.” Conversely, the fact that an already complete “apocalypse” might exist in its own dimension, like a bomb, does not mean that its explosive energy cannot spill over into ours; any more than the brain is incapable of exerting an influence on the hand.

That the world has already ended; of this we may be certain. But is it the end of “a world” or of “the world”, and is the spectacle of the linear or the non-linear variety? It is reassuring that the prophets of world destruction have proven almost 100% wrong—and yet…One might justifiably wonder if our amnesia as to the length of recorded history is an issue.

A slow, staircase-shaped, sequence of disintegration—what John Michael Greer describes as “catabolic collapse”; of crises followed by periods of partial adaptation and recovery— is probably the more common pattern for the decline of civilizations. At the same time, this does not mean that there have been no all-consuming catastrophes, in which thousands of years of development have been wiped out (relatively speaking) overnight. I believe that the world-wide network of megalithic sites is a testament to this reality.

These giant-works are cues, the hieroglyphs of Kundalini, which we, in our quest for eternal youth, have chosen to ignore; they point to how easily the evidence of past world destructions can be hidden, by our preconceptions, in plain sight. As each day the polar magnetism that protects Earth from the Sun decreases.

Thank you for explaining your use of the word “lateral”; it does seem to be a valuable concept. Here is another comment that I was working on before I read your response:

—Incidentally, the excerpt from “To Akasha/ Part 1; An Incantation for the End of History” was also not intended to be “lateral.” It was presented as an illustration of movement along the “vertical axis” of which I spoke; where all oppositions—such as “self” and “other”, “male” and “female”, “creation” and “destruction”, “past” and “future”—are reconfigured by the violence of primordial energy.

Like you, I have for many years been haunted/ fascinated by the concept of the “apocalypse”, as well as challenged by the sense of “immanence” that attends it.

During the period of 1990-1993, after receiving “shaktipat” from Anandi Ma, my body/ mind became the playground for the clash of resurgent archetypes. It was no longer possible to view the “apocalypse” as a concept, or as something that might unfold at some point in the future; it was instead the stuff of my everyday experience. The body became my inter-dimensional vehicle; and the breath its means of locomotion.

“To Akasha/ Part 1; An incantation for the End of History”, and its companion book, “To Akasha/ Part 2”, were begun in 1991, at the mid-point of this breakthrough, but, so complex were the literary and spiritual issues to resolve, that the final revisions on these books were not completed until last year. In these works, I almost always refer to myself in the third person; I do not use the word “I.” This helped to correct any tendency towards omnipotence—an almost inescapable temptation when one is drunk on Kundalini.

To what extent should my visions be interpreted as predictions? Should “the mile-high wave”, for example, be interpreted as a metaphor? On the other hand, the Arctic and Antarctic icecaps do seem to be melting, and sea levels may rise by as much as 60 feet in the lifetime of my daughter; glacial shearing may prompt the formation of catastrophic waves, leading to the submersion of many cities along coasts.

All emotions must be examined, and even our most cherished concepts overturned. It is important to respect the ambiguity of the image.

It has been an age since the Tablets of Destiny were other than dead objects in our hands. The best translation of this “ur-text” was the first one to be lost, while the worst was the one that got handed down through time. There are versions, and more versions of the text, from all of which pieces have been randomly removed. We are the all too human beings upon whom tricks can be played. Always, there are projections—and pregnant ones—of which even the Double remains unaware.

By a kick now awakened from the dream of recorded History, I find that I have only as much knowledge as I need; no more and no less. From each according to his desire for omnipotence; to each, as he learns his lesson. Or so the revolutionary council would prefer us to believe. Time will tell. It is possible that Love will in the end make fools of us all, if Death does not do so first.

That some force has realigned the vertical and the horizontal axes; of that I have little doubt, but the preexistent Voice does not always guide my actions. It comes and goes, as it chooses.

There are many days, still, when I would echo Rilke’s lament in “The Notebooks of Malte Laurids-Brigge”, where he—or rather his alter-ego—wrote, “Have I said it before? I am learning to see. Yes, I am beginning. It is still going badly. But I intend to make the most of my time.”

We must kill the gods, especially the real ones; as they have stolen the keys that were to open every heart. For better or for worse, we have no choice but to trust our vision, even knowing that it must always be imperfect; such “imperfection” is not due to any accident of perspective, but instead to the primal schism between worlds. The “inside” looks a bit different than the “outside.” Yes, the “above” is a mirror, but it is not exactly the “same as” the “below."

I checked out that site about Grof's supposed wrong-doings and well. . .I did find some sort of cultish activity that perhaps was going on around Grof, but nothing about Grof himself that spoke of nefarious means or intention. The guy who writes that website had very little to go on and yet wrote a very long, circuitous piece supposedly proving that Grof and his HB is bullshit. Basically it centered around a woman who personally dealt with people who were harmed by the HB, she wrote a letter to Grof, and got a response back from some underling. . .there's nothing to show that Grof ever even received the letter!

In any case, I have little to no interest in Holotropic Breathwork, honestly. While it sounds interesting, and if I'm in a place where it's being offered I know I'll try it(Burning Man '09, who else is going?), what I'm getting after by even bringing up Grof is the archetypal symbology he presents as a result of his work with high-dose LSD sessions in a psychotherapeutic setting.

It is unfortunate that you had to endure such a traumatic pre-birth existence, and I feel for you. At least your mother wasn't so much a troubled individual that she offed you altogether before you had a chance to be born! My mention of the perinatal matrices is just to show yet another psychological model that can be applied to consensus reality to get an idea of what the hell is going on. I've found much gold in that particular model while some might find nothing. The fact that your womb experience wasn't blissful does not subtract from the archetypal power encoded in our genetic structure. People who were born cesarian would still come up with vaginal-birth trauma scenes under high dose sessions, speaking to the archetypal nature of these symbols.

As for Castaneda, try starting with Journey To Ixtlan, that was my first. Then Tales of Power and A Seperate Reality. The Teachings of Don Juan has never really attracted me, and after skimming it last night actually, I still don't feel the same magic from it, though there is still some good stuff in there, such as the notion of choosing a path with heart, and the idea that plants can be allies in the expansion of the warrior's consciousness. I say give 'em a whirl, you just might like it! ;-)

Briefly on CC: Journey to Ixtlan is a good place to start. The first book is darker and coarser, less a work of sorcery than the others, but still invaluable (not counting the absurd second part, "a structural analysis").

The books have enormous power - they act as openings into the second attention, and allow reader to connect to the beings and events (still on-going) described (in perhaps metaphorical, i.e., "fictional" terms) by Carlos.

As for respecting my "opinion" - i didn't give one."Anything we find out about a writer cannot change one iota the content of their books" - this is simply a statement of fact (unless you want to go all quantum on me).

thanks to Brian for these wonderfully complex analyses - hard to believe the kind of in-depth insights that are winding up occulted deep within stray threads inside the labyrinth of this recondite blog.

Hi Blacklight, and thanks, because I see where you're coming from now. It seems that mistrust must be built into the very structure of my DNA, something I have yet to figure out how to change (By the way, I don't mean distrust of the Universe, because I have never felt the Universe to be anything other than loving and benevolent, but mistrust of all human authority, and the motives of those authorities.) It is the human realm that frightens me.

And no, aeolus, I don't want to go all quantum, its just that I don't agree with you, whether it was an opinion or just a statement. That doesn't mean I can't be persueded to change my mind, though.

p.s. I love and adore plant-life and am hoping that when I am ready the Universe will put some Liberty Caps in my yard or I'll chance upon an ergot infested field.

—I am continuing to work on my first comment on the “apocalypse”, written for SJ and Aeolus. (Auroragirl— In this revision, I focus more on the transpersonal aspect of the prenatal trauma you have described.) The current version reads:

SJ wrote, “If “galactic consciousness” was only possible upon the deaths of six billion people, I would take the six billion if given a choice. Screw your Enlightenment! …But I don’t even think all this is the case. Personally I feel that the “shift” has already taken place, and in a way has always been there. The Buddha, saints, mystics, shamans of all times and cultures experienced full awareness within this world, the Spell, the Matrix. In Mahayana Buddhism it is affirmed that samsara is nirvana. The whole cycle of birth and rebirth, which is Maya the original Matrix, is the realm of enlightened awareness.”

Aeolus responded, “We are on the verge of something truly mind-blowing, and our resistance to the idea of mass death as something “negative” just shows, to me, how unready we are, even conceptually, for the magnitude of what is coming, as a species and as individuals. I can say this: the loss of identity which (*I* believe) is our only possibility for survival now will be far more “terrifying” (and undesirable) than any “horrible” death by apocalypse could ever be. Those of us who begin to experience this “shift” may well wish we’d been numbered with the lucky “expendables.” Galactic consciousness is nothing anyone in their right mind would volunteer for, and those dumb enough to do so, soon regret it.”

Is it possible that these viewpoints are not mutually exclusive?

To my way of thinking, the cosmos is already as “perfect” as it needs to be, although our perception of this larger context has been obscured from the dawn of recorded history, and perhaps longer. “Apocalypse” pertains to the rolling on and rolling off of stage sets; as embodied in, among other things, the 12 signs of the Zodiac. These “stage sets” activate the potentials that are encoded in the All. As they stomp and fret their hour upon the stage, the actors prove all but indifferent to the larger context they have come from; yet fear, always, on some level, that they are still the stuff of dreams.

Always, it is space itself that acts.

”A world” disappears; the theatre” in which this destruction is carried out does not have to go anywhere, or to “evolve” beyond what is already within its reach. The future does not necessarily follow upon the past, nor is the past only mechanically active in the present. As one stage set disappears and another one appears, there is an interval, a pregnant pause, a dead zone, in which the vertical and horizontal axes get realigned; we may experience this as an earthquake or a tidal wave that shatters and then reconstitutes the whole of the inter-dimensional structure.

Many new things then become possible, but this may or may not result in the projection of destruction onto physical time/ space. A continent sinks. The sun burns out. A wave consumes Valhalla, bringing to an end the blood- feast of the gods. The Venir and the Aesir, it must be said, are too drunk to be feeling any pain. Or, one actor has been momentarily transported from the theatre. The “pregnant pause” could just as easily result in the ecstasy of a shamanic flight, in the seeding of a more localized “omphalos”, or in the birth of transpersonal memory. Our “world” has been replaced with an almost exact duplicate. One actor has returned, only slightly the worse for wear, from his “close encounter” with the vertical axis; having reestablished “contact” with what existed before History.

Time is the magician whose tricks educate the audience; a master of bi-location, he then gladly joins them in a long round of applause.

Our preoccupation with linear ‘evolution” shows our incomplete grasp of the time-cycle, which, while not a form of exact repetition, does not involve the “creation” of any “higher” state of consciousness. Our experience is, in some peculiar way, important. “How” and “why” will at some point be self-evident, but are now, perhaps, self-evident only to our Doubles. It is he/ she/ it, the Double, who provokes the fear that all too often we project onto the world. Oddly, it is always the next production at the theatre that especially concerns us. If we are haunted by the catastrophes at the end of the last ice age—when the yogic technology of the Satya Yuga fell, not soon to be seen again—then we somehow do not locate the source of our emotion in the past.

This could be due to the continual meddling of the Watchers; to whose fascist network the Double may belong. How many cows have been sacrificed to the development of their superpowers? Experiments in recombinant DNA did not begin in the 1970s. We must push the date back by more than 11,000 years, to the wasteland that followed the last deluge.

As they hovered above the flood-plain, having said “goodbye” to the bodies they once loved, trauma became the fuel that powered their glass houses. Objectively, they have celebrated the destruction of their cities. Cosmic; their pathos. They have through the millennia made a virtue of Necessity. All memory of their actions is forbidden. For, now as then, we suspect that they do more than “watch”; even if we do not know what laws that have broken.

Our paranoia is, for the most part, justified; but its actual object is far stranger than we think. More intimate than one’s heartbeat. More “immanent” than death, which it resembles. As violent as one’s transubstantiation. In the end, perhaps courage is of more importance than any sharpening of our prophetic skills. "For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror which we still are just able to endure, and we are so awed because it serenely disdains to annihilate us. Every angel is terrifying.”—Rilke.

"This could be due to the continual meddling of the Watchers; to whose fascist network the Double may belong."

This is a fascinating and baffling statement - my understanding of the Double is a being who cannot be co-opted, since it is hooked into Infinity itself. The double can perhaps be enslaved (as in the pods of the Matrix), but that's another matter - or is this what you mean by "belong"?

My own experiences of the Double lead me to the conclusion that it is still "trapped" or distorted by unprocessed or unreleased aspects (karma?) of the personal self, but that in essence, as a Totality, the Double is a kind of tube or opening onto the Infinite - a veritable god-self.

AG: curious to know how you'd argue that hearing about an author's foibles can change the content of their work (besides your interpretation of it, of course). Strikes me as strange that you would argue your right to disagree with a statement of fact!? I presume you mean that you don't agree that it is fact?

My point, really, was that if we can't trust our own critical/intuitive judgment about a work, then investigating an author (tho it may be useful) isn't ever going to help us develop such awareness - since it flows from Knowing, not from gossip, or even hard data. I have a Knowing about Castaneda's work; stories about his flaws as a man merely deepen the mystery; they could never cause me to question my own Knowing, because by definition it is independent of any data (or gossip) outside the books themselves - and more essentially, my experience of and through them.

Hi aeolus. About Grof, as I said, I was curious about breathwork, but when I started checking it out, all I could find were glowing testimonials about it...something that made immediately made me suspicious (in other words, I had a Knowing), plus everybody and their brother seemed to be a breathwork coach or teach breathwork coaching. Then, just on a whim, I went waaay down the list of google hits and hit a number at random and up popped that website (citizen initiative). After that, information on Grof's connection to the CIA just started to fall into my lap, and I'd never even heard of the man before! The hidden info (the CIA connection) simply confirmed my suspicions that breathwork seemed too good to be true, that's all. And don't forget that my intuition about breathwork has only to do with how it would have effected me, not anyone else. If it helps other people, that's great, but I'm pretty sure it would have harmed me.

But a question: isn't information conditioned by the conciousness of the person transmitting it? I mean, you have said that some of Castenada's books aren't very good, or that Pinchbeck's second book (I forget the title) is a disappointment, so how then is the info separate from the author? Isn't it rather that a book is sort of a snapshot of the author's conciousness at the time s/he wrote it? That's what I meant about the work NOT being separate from the author. By the way, I never pay heed to gossip because everyone has foibles!

I do see what YOU mean now by the information being INDEPENDENT from the author, though, and I do agree that it is a fact.

We do not disagree about the Double. This is only a piece of myth making, and what I say here may be easily contradicted somewhere else.

What I am suggesting here is that the Double, in his aspect as the Shadow, may appear to be allied with the powers that “oppress” us—although the ultimate goal of these “oppressive" actions is very much open to debate. The Double, of course, is in no way limited by this, or by any other, role. As a “double-agent”, he is neither “here” nor “there”, neither one of “us’ or one of “them”, and delights in playing stupefyingly complex games with our Psyches.

In my non-dual system, there can be no ultimate “enemy”; the original omnipotence of the Soul cannot be stolen. It does not break easily, or perhaps at all, and there is no action that cannot also be interpreted as a gift.

I do not say this lightly. The implications of this power-sharing arrangement are enormous, even terrifying. Placing, upon our moral sense, many harsh and almost impossible demands, a radical expansion of perspective follows from our contact with the Double; we can only gasp at the leap that we have taken, and the distance that we have come.

In regards to CC. I thoroughly enjoyed his writing but at the same time carried the sensation that he found much of his material in the library. For me, this does not so much discredit his efforts as it shows that natural or silent intelligence works with whatever tools are available. His en-formed expressions of silent intelligence were good but as he gave credit to the wrong thing, silent intelligence was obliged to make him into a fool later in life.

—If we follow the explorations of a right-wing visionary like Serrano, one of the founders of “Esoteric Hitlerism”, we could easily come to the conclusion that the Double was a Fascist. In my remarks about the Double at the end of my comment on the Apocalypse, however, I was not speaking about what the Double is, in and of himself, but rather about how he is refracted through the prism of our fears. To draw a comparison: in Hollywood movies, for example, whenever the supernatural puts in an appearance—as the music of Anton Webern screeches and plinks and plonks—we can be sure that some orgy of horrific violence is to come; we cannot escape from our metaphysics without immediately being punished. About such things our transfigured selves will laugh.

Hi All,

In the Steiner/ Strieber thread, I had posted an excerpt from “The Road of Excess Leads to the Palace of Wisdom”, a comment on Gary Lachman’s essay, “Archangels of Our Darker Natures.” I am still revising it, but the complete text may be relevant to our discussion. It reads as follows:

The Road of Excess Leads to the Palace of Annihilation

Gary, you wrote:

“Mircea Eliade remarked that he became ‘politically aware’ during his time in India”—a matter-of-fact comment, but I find it significant that this awakening occurred India, perhaps the only culture whose traditions stretch, in forms that have been interrupted but never entirely broken, to a point beyond the origins of our time cycle. Recent research suggests that there are references in the “Rig Veda”—geographic and climatological—that seem to originate the period of 6,000-10,000 years B.C.

Among most of the thinkers you describe, there is a sense that the “modern world” is the slipshod handiwork of the Demiurge, and that access to some higher, as well as more ancient, world is an immediate possibility, in spite of our fixed position within the Kali Yuga. At the same time, it would appear that some trauma has occurred; it is necessary to blame someone, and it is only to be expected that the elite will take revenge. “Eliade remarked that ‘One day I heard an extremist talking and I had to admit he was right. I understood perfectly well that there had to be some violent protestors too.’”

But once violence in the service of “wholeness” is legitimated, there is no horror that cannot occur. It is only a few short steps to Savitri Devi’s belief that Hitler was ““the god-like Individual of our times; the Man against Time; the greatest European of all times.” He was “Kalki”, the 10th and final avatar of Vishnu, and his temporary defeat was due to his being “too magnanimous, too trusting, too good”, to his having “in his psychological makeup, too much sun.” Insufficiently merciless, he was prevented from bringing the full grandeur of his vision to fruition.—But he will not make the same mistake again.

Upon his return from a UFO base beneath Antarctica, “'Kalki' will act with unprecedented ruthlessness. Contrarily to Adolf Hitler, He will spare not a single one of the enemies of the divine Cause: not a single one of its outspoken opponents but also not a single one of the lukewarm, of the opportunists, of the ideologically heretical, of the racially bastardized, of the unhealthy, of the hesitating, of the all-too-human; not a single one of those who, in body or in character or mind, bear the stamp of the fallen Ages.”

All of this might seem grotesque, but it follows logically from a certain type of loss; a once perfect world has been wrestled from one’s grasp. However distorted, this longing perhaps refers to a real object.

Morphogenesis places its thumb upon the Scales; knowing that it is impossible to keep any crime a secret; that one race’s god is another race’s demon, i.e., that the Devas and the Asuras have, yet again, been scheduled to trade places; that all the toxins that are in the mud will hatch; that there is no real way to deactivate a superpower; and that no “good deed” will ever go unpunished.

We can read the “Ur-Text” in a multitude of languages. We can then translate our paraphrases into other, less coherent, languages; the wealth of which must provoke a “great war” between interpreters. At this point, it is impossible to even begin to tell the Story. Who is who, and what side was one on? Such a babbling of tongues is inter-dimensional in its scope. It is even possible that the war has never ended, and that the two worlds, even now, continue to throw insults. See, it is Arjuna who has wheeled his chariot onto the field at Kurukshetra, between the roaring of two armies; all of whom have or will soon pass into nonexistence.

The “Bhagavad Gita” was one of Himmler’s favorite books, and he always took a copy with him on his travels. “These, your family, are already dead, and so press on in the fight.” It seems unlikely that Vyassa, the incarnate form of Ganesh, had Buchenwald in mind when he first thought of these words. But one never knows. The elephant poet has again withdrawn into his cave, into the joy of his perfected memory; our own memories are perhaps no longer on this level. We are angry, and have vowed to follow the river of our frustration to its source.

The “world” that stirs such deep emotions may have left us. Still, we love her. If we cannot have her, then we will see that no one else does, either. Through our occult arts we have conjured an exact duplicate of her body!—It is missing only a small ocean’s-worth of blood.

From beyond Time, an ultimatum echoes, waiting for its vehicles to hear.

In the face of the immanent energies that flow from this lost world, it no doubt seemed cowardly to Eliade to keep the contemplative and the pragmatic aspects of his being separate; thought and action must again be brought into relation, as the parts of one dynamic whole. To maintain one’s ritual purity would be to avoid the responsibility that was the counterpart to one’s memory. Life is hard. History is messy, and, like the making of sausages, it requires the spilling of much blood on the floor. To be willing to kill was a test of moral purpose. Evola and Serrano have also described this urgent and absolute need to act on what they “knew.”—If only one’s “vision” could be so easily translated into fact. Of course, however great one’s intelligence or encyclopedic one’s knowledge of comparative mythology, without a moment by moment awareness of “The Shadow” one is little more than a puppet.

Such awareness is not natural; it involves a radical leap beyond duality, which is an achievement as individual as every person who attempts it, and one that must be renewed with every slight shift of focus. Without such a mercurial awareness, Jung himself, the originator of our modern understanding of this “concept”, would no doubt have fallen prey to the resurgence of archetypal powers that gave birth to Fascism, and would also be listed among this group of suspect thinkers. His very ambivalence towards Fascism, in the early 1930s, was itself a sign of his enormous subtlety as a seer; his judgment upon events was not in any way mechanical, but came only at the end of a long process of self-discovery.

The problem is that “The Shadow” does not look like “The Shadow”; it looks like the external world. So long as one sees oneself as separate from the evil to be overcome, or one’s slightly more articulate ignorance as somehow privileged by the Absolute, then there is no real hope for a life-changing confrontation with the Other.

For the past 20 or so years, I have also experienced a sense of worlds upon worlds breaking open; of the geometry behind History just about to be revealed; of a lost world being wrestled from my grasp, like an object upon waking from a dream; of some trauma that contaminates all attempts at perfect vision. I can certainly understand the need to test one’s energies against events, or to find some external cause that would give form to one’s depth of intuition. Space/ Time is an obstacle—to be removed; and any form of action must be better than no action at all. Except when it is not.

To the temptation to impregnate politics with myth, my attitude has been a prophylactic “Just say no.” Simultaneously, I would caution: respect the urge if not the act; the urge to revolt against Space/ Time is not different than the one that fuels each creative breakthrough.

Blake, for example, would be an artist who gave positive expression to this same world-conquering impulse. Sealed within the althanor of his transformation, he did not depart from the realm of symbolic action; all contraries met within one energetic body.

The fire of Prometheus, yes; the arrogance of the Archons, no. Quite strangely, the same vision can prompt results that are diametrically opposed. Apocalyptic violence escorts the dream of the Satya Yuga. Ecstasy guides the magus through each twist and turn of the labyrinth, and then finally out through the exit—into farce.

If, as some proponents of the occult right contend, an experience of primordial wholeness can be gained through the act of Tantric intercourse—whether with a partner, or through the opening of the microcosmic orbit, thus reintegrating the root and crown chakras and subverting the horizontal projection of duality—then Eliade, Evola, Serrano, Guenon and their like, must, when all is said and done, be regarded as a group of premature ejaculators.

As the maxim says, “In my patience is my soul.”

The lost world that imagines us does not need to be created; and we, who are not other than its shadow, must learn how to approach it through the prism of our fear, whose force-fields we must navigate. “The Shadow” that for millennia has haunted us, now a guide, will again demonstrate his/her ability to steer. A hair’s breadth of a difference separates discovery from destruction., Hidden in plain sight, the future/ past, already, is as perfect as it needs to be, and our post-traumatic stress only serves to cloud the issue.

curious that Serrano suggest Hitler had too much Sun (mercy), as I suggest the very opposite in Homo Serpiens, that it was excess of yin (feminine enegy, which equates with severity in Kabbalah) that caused him to overcompensate with aberrational expressions of yang - in short that he was a lunar and not a solar being, an avatar of Kali/Hecate, not Lucifer/Christ.

BG et al - perhaps we could all adjourn to a more recent thread? It's getting a bit tricky to keep up with these multiple strands!

Approximately 3,500 years ago, about the time of the Catastrophe described in the Book of Exodus, a gigantic Comet was ejected from the planet Jupiter. It grazed several planets, including Mars and Earth, before settling in as the Second Planet from the Sun.

Today, we refer to this mysterious planet as Venus, the Morning Star, the only planet that appears to move in an orbit in the direction opposite to that of the Earth in its revolution around the Sun. This may be because of the "8 Ball Kinetic Energy Transference Effect."

As a result of these Worlds in Collision, the Spiritual Beings of Venus fell to Earth and took up symbiotic residence in the animal life indigenous to this planet. Members of Secret Societies use the cryptic term, "The Great Assembly" to refer to this relationship.

THE ETHIOPIAN BOOK OF ENOCH is the scripture that terms this occurrence as the time of the Fallen Angels. It is also described in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad and in Isaiah 14:12-15, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning star!"

I experienced this Fall.

Symbiotic, by the way, is an innocuous euphemism for Parasite. Carlos Castaneda, the anthropologist who recorded the Tales of Don Juan in a series of esoteric books, revealed that these Beings feed upon our energy in his last book, "The Active Side of Infinity," just as we feed on food, and make us believe that their minds are our minds. The Ancient Shamans of Mexico called these parasites "Inorganic Beings."

The arrival of these parasites signaled the advent of the Bicameral Mind (two halves of the brain) as described by Julian Jaynes, the late celebrated Princeton psychologist, with whom I corresponded frequently. Before the Anterior Commissure of the Brain was breached, i.e., before THE ORIGIN OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN THE BREAKDOWN OF THE BICAMERAL MIND , the Inorganic Beings commanded their "Chariots," i.e., the bodies of the Humans, as "Gods." This is quite similar to what we term the auditory hallucinations of schizophrenia.

Once the Anterior Commissure (the bridge between both hemispheres of the brain) was breached, however, the Inorganic Beings assumed total Cerebral Cortex control and through the phenomenon of congruency, i.e., "Yoga," Union of the Body and Mind (Spirit), was effected in a Perfectly Integrated Structure-Function Relationship. In essence, the Body was subject to the Spirit, the Alien, which I shall, hereinafter, refer to as Mind.

There would be no return for the Aliens to the abode from whence they came. They had to make the best of the hand they were dealt.

Numbers 15:15 of the Bible states: "As for the Assembly, there shall be for both you and the resident alien a single statute, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; you and the alien shall be alike before the LORD."

In other words, " DUO SUNT IN HOMINE;" There are two men in man.

The Book of Job is the oldest book in the Bible. It is the first mention of the Lord visiting the "Sons of God." Job 1:6: "Now there was a day when the Sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them."

Satan was one who resisted being inhabited/controlled by an Alien. His name, in fact, means "Resistor." Sensing that Satan was not like the others, "the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Why would an All-Knowing God have to ask the question, "Whence comest thou?"

The meaning of this is that Satan evolved on Earth. He was a Son of Man, not a Son of God. He was the King of the Beasts whose rightful place in the natural order of things was usurped by these Aliens, Inorganic Beings, Spirits, Parasites, Minds.

Throughout the ages, the King of the Beasts and his Descendants have vainly attempted to convince their "Subjects" to cast off their fetters and eliminate the error that was created in the Natural Order of Things through the appearance of these Outsiders.

Psalm 2 mocks the pitiful attempts of this movement to reclaim what rightfully belongs to man:

1 "Why are the nations in an uproarAnd the peoples devising a vain thing?2 The kings of the earth take their standAnd the rulers take counsel together(Against the LORD and against His [Anointed, saying,3 "Let us tear their fetters apartAnd cast away their cords from us!"

When the Inorganic Beings attempted to establish their own Kingdom on Earth and rebelled against their Lord, they instituted every imaginable evil now known to man. Lucifer, Semjaza, though one of the "Fallen Angels," could not turn against his Father, the Lord, because they were, and are, One. This is God's Fail-Safe Mechanism.

Seeking refuge from the Others, Lucifer conjoined with Satan, the King of the Beasts, the Son of Man, and repented of his participation in the Rebellion and tried to convince the Others to do the same.

Knowing that a day of reckoning was going to befall them because the Prodigal Son, the Lost Sheep, was found, and there would no longer be a Scapegoat to be held accountable for the transgressions of the Others, Lucifer was continuously sought out and his Host, the Son of Man, the King of the Beasts," put to death.

The last recorded instance of The King of Beasts, the Son of Man, was more than 2,000 years ago when he revealed himself in the Temple by declaring, "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, Because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to captives and freedom to prisoners."

Although the Son of Man, the King of the Beasts, pleaded that "the Father seeks Compassion and not Sacrifice," they killed him anyway, using his own subjects as instruments of his death.

An entire religion, contrary to common sense, was created under the Blasphemy that "God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son that we may have eternal life."

Any fathers out there that want to kill their sons for the benefit of the rest of us?

Because the Inorganic Beings began to exercise "Herd Control" under the subterfuge of "Legalized Abortion," killing off the subjects of The King of the Beasts, The King of the Beasts joined forces with Lucifer to trick the Others into a False Judgment, thereby effecting a sentence of Eternal Damnation for their mistake.----------------------------------------

"WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE" by Steve Savage

Thousands of years ago, in the Unrecorded Past,After countless Near-Collisions;Mars and Venus met at last.The Spirits of those PlanetsFell here to nearby Earth;Symbiotically conjoining,With our children in their Birth.We who are seen they call the “Host;”The One not seen, we call the “Ghost.”We, who are of the Body, are the Sons of Man;Slaves of Alien Beings to serve their Evil Plan.When our Natural King had unfettered His Cord,He soon became the Sacrifice to the One we call the “Lord.”Unbeknownst to the Aliens, the Royal seed didn't die with the King;It was passed from Father to Unborn Son along with a Secret Ring.Instructed in the Mysteries, not humanly understood,The “King of Beasts,” the Son of Man,Serves the God of the Greatest Good.The Time is almost upon us when there’ll be no Chariots to Ride;Because the “King of Beasts” became “Destroyer,”The day his Master took His Bride.