Using SSUSA Staff logic, if a fielder touches a ball BEFORE it passes first or third base and then it subsequently rolls foul it would be called a foul ball. Obviously, no one will agree to this. However, the base line is the inside of the bags; therefore, if a ball hits first or third base at least a portion of the ball has crossed the baseline and no matter where it ends up after that it is a fair ball. I usually can agree with SSUSA Staff on rules, but this time I think they are very, very wrong. If they are going to insist on this interpretation they are going to be the only organization, baseball, fast pitch, or slow pitch that interprets it this way. Rule 122D has no caveat that what happens after a ball hits the base decides whether it is a fair or foul ball. It just says it is a fair ball.

Staff. Your answer on July 15 stating that a ball that hits the bag and bounds back toward home plate would be a foul ball is in direct conflict with the SSUSA rule book, as stated by Mr Ed. Rule 1.22D SPECIFICALLY says that any ball that strikes first, second or third base is a fair ball. That was not the original question, though. The original question was whether it was a fair or foul ball and whether it was a live or dead ball. According to rule 8.2.C.1, a baserunner cannot be declared out if hit by a fairly batted ball while in contact with a base and the ball is live. So, in answer to the original question by Paul P, the runner is not out and the determination of whether it is a fair or foul ball is determined by the ball position when it strikes the runner. If it struck the runner while it was over fair territory it is a fair ball and is live, according to rule 8.2.C.1. If it struck the runner over foul territory it is a foul ball.

According to rule 8.4(1), "the defensive player may use either portion of the double bag to record a put out (once the batter runner becomes a base runner). Using this interpretation, if a runner is on first base when a line drive is caught by an infielder, the first baseman can use either the orange or white base to record the put out before the runner gets back. Unfortunately, that was not the interpretation the two umpires in our game made at the LVSSA/SSUSA tournament in Las Vegas. Their interpretation was the first baseman MUST touch the white base.

SSUSA Staff - were they right or is the rule to be interpreted as written?

I decided long ago not to respond to anything Gary19 (Dirty, etc) had to say because he is, at least in his own mind, a majority of one with the only opinion that counts. Rather than giving him any grist for his self-rightous mill it seemed more prudent to ignore him. But his attack on Fabe is over the top. It is obvious he has no knowledge of the people or culture of Hawaii. I played softball there for many years in the 80's and 90's and it truly is a close-knit community. In fact, the entire island culture is close-knit and I have absolutely no doubt that winning was a big thing there. To Fabe and his team, well earned congratulations. Hawaii no ka oi!

I see no real problem dropping a 60 major into the 55AAA tournament, but they should not get any run differential. Theoretically, the age differential should be the offset. Many times that is the only way major teams can get into tournaments. Same thing with dropping a 60 M+ into a 55 Major tournament. One age group - one level. I would think a 55AAA team would welcome good competition. I've seen it a lot (from both sides of the equation) and have no problem with it.

Winter Worlds are the first tournament of the new year. New rosters, as well. Both SSUSA and SPA have said many times that they only automatically bump up their national championship winners. Other than that, one tournament won't necessarily change a teams classification. I'm sure that this performance will put them on the radar to be watched, though. If it continues, I'm sure it will change their classification. With regard to the Major Plus player...by rule he can't play AAA UNLESS he was deemed a "non-impact" player on the Major Plus team.

This discussion seems to fall into the "good old days" category; at least to me. I think if we are honest with ourselves we can remember (at least some of us) when the same arguments against aluminum bats and moving the fences to 300 feet were made that it was "ruining the game we all loved." In fact, going back a little further, I can remember when slow pitch softball was looked at as an inferior product that was only good for co-ed or "those who weren't good enough for real softball!" Seems no matter how much things change, they stay the same. Bottom line, at least to me, is I don't believe the new bats or moving the fences, etc., are driving people away. I have never, I repeat never, heard anyone say this was why they weren't going to play senior softball any more. On the contrary, those that I have talked to that have quit, or at least reduced, their participation cite either the cost or injuries and the slowness of recovery from injuries. Along the same lines, I have yet to hear (except on this board) anyone lobbying for "dumbed down bats and balls" or "mandatory safety equipment" in the 15 years I have played senior softball. It is my belief that the vast majority of players not only like the advances in technology, but actually embrace it. No technology is perfect, but overall I think most seniors like it. Maybe because it is a way of fooling us by letting us think our skills are less diminished; but (again, at least to me) the allure of senior softball is the chance of competition at what not too long ago was the age most of us became couch potatoes.

There is already a solution to the safety situation. "Armor up". Catchers have been doing it for years in fastpitch and baseball and it works. I caught fastpitch when younger and took many shots off the mask, chest protector and shin guards. Still hurts, but does little damage. Pitchers already have that option but most refuse to use it. The arguement that it will take away from their mobility is a load of crap. Ask a catcher. In fact, they might just become better fielders once they get used to it because it will take away some of the fear factor. And the balls aren't going back up the middle any faster than a baseball pitcher can deliver a pitch. So armor up...it won't change the rules or the way the game is played, but will create the safety.

Two points:
1. In order to be fair, it would seem to me that pitchers should not be allowed to field anything up the middle if a screen is used. Otherwise, the better ones will move to one side, the shortstop and secondbaseman will move to the holes, and it will be extemely hard to hit a ground ball through the infield. How many pitchers would agree to that?
2. SSUSA already did a survey last year on this issue and the majority wanted the rules the way they are (good bats and balls, no screen, no PPR). Many of the most vocal on this site are most vocal about claiming the associations don't listen to the players; yet, when the majority of the players don't agree with their views they can't let it go. While it is a true trajedy when a death or serious injury occurs there will never be a way to mandate 100% safety. I have seen a player die on the field after running the bases; but we don't suggest alterations in the rules to stop running. We all accept some risk when we get up in the morning. The only way to mandate 100% safety in this issue is to play the game on a computer (then we would probably risk carpal tunnel ;).) And no, I'm not a pitcher but I am a corner infielder.

Its a matter of logistics more than anything. Assuming you have a four-field complex, the first games are at 8AM and the last ones start at 5PM (since we don't want to play at night), you can get in 28 games a day. If you have 4 divisions (50, 55, 60, 65) and each division has five teams in it, and you play two seeding games and a double elimination bracket, you will need to play roughly 72 games. That means it takes at least 3 days to play the tournament. Logic says that you play the 50 & 55's on the weekends, which takes up 36 of the available 56 game times. Also, most people want to get out of there as early as possible on Sunday and no one wants to play at night. Unfortunately, that means the older brackets (60, 65) get pushed earlier into the week. It's strictly a matter of percentages...there are fewer players in the 50/55 that are retired than in the 60/65. All this doesn't even take into account the younger (40) or older (70) brackets, weather and unforeseen problems. Unless you can have 50/55 one weekend and 60/65 another weekend there is little room to maneuver, and that creates a totally different set of logistical problems. So give the TD's a break. I'm sure they'd rather spend 3 days in a motel running a tournament than 5 days.

Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts International Softball Tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today.
»SSUSA History
»Privacy policy