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That is a tough one. I like that the O's would be selling high on Johnson and maximizing Machado's value by moving him to SS AND acquiring a solid 3B prospect, but is the return really worth it? I guess if you really like Castellanos because he's the only player of any real value the O's would be getting.

Agree that you have to really think about it but I would say no. I would be willing to trade Hardy and Johnson for Castellanos and another decent young player who provides better value than those listed in that proposal.

I've thought since the season ended that the two most logical trade partners for Johnson were the Tigers and the Angels. That being said, I wouldn't make this trade.

Castellanos has the chance of being a solid ML 3B. I would expect an .800+ OPS, but his SLG % will come from doubles instead of HRs. Peralta in the field and with the bat is a step DOWN from Hardy. The Tigers think a lot of Garcia, but he has yet to show any plate discipline and he's close enough to the majors that I don't see him changing that. Crosby WAS a Top 100 prospect, but that was two seasons ago and his stock has dropped, primarily because of his poor WHIP at each level of the minors.

IMO, we would would be giving up FAR more value than we would be getting.

I would be willing to trade Johnson for Castellanos and Bruce Rondon. IMO, that trade would make sense for both teams.

I am not a fan of this one. Hardy is more valuable than Peralta and we have Hardy one more year than we'd have Peralta. Crosby looks like nothing. Castellanos and Garcia are nice position prospects but they aren't worth our shortstop, closer and third best reliever.

Last edited by osforlife on December 1st, 2012, 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Patton had the best year of his life as did Johnson, so we would be selling high on both. I think both of these guys will not achieve at the same level in 2013 so I'm ok with trading them. Plus Johnson has an underlying back problem. Hardy is a plus defender and should hit better in 2013 so I am in no rush to get rid of him. Manny has proven he can handle 3B so I would not brake up the left side of the infield for a prospect and some add ons. The question you have to ask yourself is who would replace these guys on the Major league level. Since we plan to be in contension, we need a closer. In years past a closer was not vital. Patton is a good Lefty out of the pen. Are we ready for Matusz to take over that role or should we keep both lefties. I bet this is one trade that DD will not make.

Absolutely horrible trade for the Tigers. The fact that O's fans (not just saying people on here as I've read a thread on this on the OH and seen the comments on the ESPN article) think they would even consider making this move is hilarious.

No team is stupid enough to give up a legit top 3B prospect in a package for two relievers and a slight upgrade at SS.

Matt P wrote:No team is stupid enough to give up a legit top 3B prospect in a package for two relievers and a slight upgrade at SS

I can agree with that statement, but I disagree with your assessment of the players involved.

Castellanos is a solid 3B prospect but, IMO, he's only a step above Schoop at this point and a step below Machado. I wouldn't have any interest in Peralta, Garcia, and Crosby.

Jim Johnson is a proven closer, comes at a reasonable price, and still has several years of control left. Of course, those are all reasons to keep him, but pitching is the ONLY area of tradable surplus we have and he's replaceable. If the Tigers offered Castellanos and Rondon I would make that trade. Detroit might not want to give those two guys up, but they have invested a TON of money in that team with the attitude that they HAVE to WIN NOW so I doubt they would be willing to go into 2013 with a big question mark at closer.

I would ONLY trade Hardy if I were getting back a proven player like Headley. We don't have a surplus of quality INFs.

Patton is not untouchable, but I would be reluctant to trade him at this point. He's strong against LHs and can go more than one inning. If Matusz shows that he's better suited as a RP than a SP then Patton would become expendable; however, he would get a better return in July since he has controllable years beyond this season.

Matt, as a side note I would like to welcome you back after your two week absence. It's no secret that we rarely agree on issues but I can (almost) always see the logic in your opinions and I believe you have a valuable voice in this forum. I look forward to disagreeing with you through another successful season.

ofahn wrote:I can agree with that statement, but I disagree with your assessment of the players involved.

Castellanos is a solid 3B prospect but, IMO, he's only a step above Schoop at this point and a step below Machado. I wouldn't have any interest in Peralta, Garcia, and Crosby.

Jim Johnson is a proven closer, comes at a reasonable price, and still has several years of control left. Of course, those are all reasons to keep him, but pitching is the ONLY area of tradable surplus we have and he's replaceable. If the Tigers offered Castellanos and Rondon I would make that trade. Detroit might not want to give those two guys up, but they have invested a TON of money in that team with the attitude that they HAVE to WIN NOW so I doubt they would be willing to go into 2013 with a big question mark at closer.

I would ONLY trade Hardy if I were getting back a proven player like Headley. We don't have a surplus of quality INFs.

Patton is not untouchable, but I would be reluctant to trade him at this point. He's strong against LHs and can go more than one inning. If Matusz shows that he's better suited as a RP than a SP then Patton would become expendable; however, he would get a better return in July since he has controllable years beyond this season.

Matt, as a side note I would like to welcome you back after your two week absence. It's no secret that we rarely agree on issues but I can (almost) always see the logic in your opinions and I believe you have a valuable voice in this forum. I look forward to disagreeing with you through another successful season.

The problem isn't that I don't think Johnson, Hardy, or Patton are good. The problem is that many O's fans are overrating their value. I don't agree that 1 year as a closer means that someone is a proven closer. The trade would basically come down to Johnson and Patton for Garcia, Castellanos, and Crosby.

Think about it this way, if you were the O's and needed bullpen help would you ever consider trading a package along the lines of Schoop + Hoes + a pitcher or two for two relievers? Not saying that all the players are equal but it would be something along those lines.

Matt P wrote:Think about it this way, if you were the O's and needed bullpen help would you ever consider trading a package along the lines of Schoop + Hoes + a pitcher or two for two relievers? Not saying that all the players are equal but it would be something along those lines.

I think I get your point but I believe you're underestimating the Tigers URGENCY to win NOW. Dombrowski is saying publicly that the team is comfortable with Rondon as their closer. DON'T BELIEVE A WORD OF THAT. He's just posturing for Soriano's agent or the GMs that want half his team for a a wanna be closer.

If the Tigers want to pay "stupid" money there's Soriano. If they want to show some fiscal restraint there's Johnson or the guy from Pittsburgh. Dombrowski will have to decide whom he wants on the mound in the Ninth of the Seventh Game of the World Series. If it costs him Castellanos and Rondon to get that guy then he'll pay that.

ofahn wrote:I think I get your point but I believe you're underestimating the Tigers URGENCY to win NOW. Dombrowski is saying publicly that the team is comfortable with Rondon as their closer. DON'T BELIEVE A WORD OF THAT. He's just posturing for Soriano's agent or the GMs that want half his team for a a wanna be closer.

If the Tigers want to pay "stupid" money there's Soriano. If they want to show some fiscal restraint there's Johnson or the guy from Pittsburgh. Dombrowski will have to decide whom he wants on the mound in the Ninth of the Seventh Game of the World Series. If it costs him Castellanos and Rondon to get that guy then he'll pay that.

We'll see but I doubt they are going to trade Castellanos for a reliever.