Orthodox don't follow the branch theory. So, The Orthodox believe that we ARE the Body of Christ. Not the Catholics, not the Anglicans, not the Baptists, or any other protestant sect. (This is not to say that there are not people who are not mystically in the Body, without our knowledge, in any of those assemblies, but the churches themselves are not) So there is no point for us to desire any communion with them on forums other than to bring them to the fullness of truth that is Orthodox CHristianity..

The Orthodox hear believe that the Orthodox Church is the only true Church of Christ, hence the only true Body of Christ, and therefore have no need for your little list.

Yes you did bear false witness, and yes I can prove some of your false teachings, and yes, other sects believe they are the ones also but have untruths also like you, but no more aggregious than what you believe.

So that you can understand I will simplify it down to the common denominator, the essense of division against God's will.

Orthodox don't follow the branch theory. So, The Orthodox believe that we ARE the Body of Christ. Not the Catholics, not the Anglicans, not the Baptists, or any other protestant sect. (This is not to say that there are not people who are not mystically in the Body, without our knowledge, in any of those assemblies, but the churches themselves are not) So there is no point for us to desire any communion with them on forums other than to bring them to the fullness of truth that is Orthodox CHristianity..

Just like them you are not in the truth either. You both have the same problem operating larger that Biblical locality, and believe it or not, that is the cause of dissension.

It is so simple, but a spirit without wisdome and revelation can't see this perfect clarity that solves all these problems that you and opposers teach.

Mor Ephrem is a nice guy. Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

A Prayer for Enemiesby Bishop Nicholas Velimirovich(a Serbian Orthodox bishop who opposed the Nazis and was sent to the Dachau concentration camp, eventually coming to the United States where he died some years later and was recently declared a saint)

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Bless my enemies, Lord. Even I bless them and do not curse them. Enemies have driven me into Your embrace more than friends have. Friends have bound me to Earth, enemies have loosed me from Earth and have demolished all my aspirations in the world.

Enemies have made me a stranger in worldly realms and an extraneous inhabitant of the world. Just as a hunted animal finds safer shelter than an unhunted animal does, so have I, persecuted by enemies, found the safest sanctuary, having ensconced myself beneath Your tabernacle, where neither friends nor enemies can slay my soul. Bless my enemies, Lord. Even I bless them and do not curse them.

They, rather than I, have confessed my sins before the world. They have punished me, whenever I have hesitated to punish myself. They have tormented me, whenever I have tried to flee torments. They have scolded me, whenever I have flattered myself. They have spat upon me, whenever I have filled myself with arrogance.

Bless my enemies, Lord. Even I bless them and do not curse them. Whenever I have made myself wise, they have called me foolish. Whenever I have made myself mighty, they have mocked me as though I were a dwarf. Whenever I have wanted to lead people, they have shoved me into the background.

Whenever I have rushed to enrich myself, they have prevented me with an iron hand. Whenever I thought that I would sleep peacefully, they have wakened me from sleep. Whenever I have tried to build a home for a long and tranquil life, they have demolished it and driven me out. Truly, enemies have cut me loose from the world and have stretched out my hands to the hem of Your garment.

Bless my enemies, Lord. Even I bless them and do not curse them. Bless them and multiply them; multiply them and make them even more bitterly against me: so that my fleeing to You may have no return; so that all hope in men may be scattered like cobwebs; so that absolute serenity may begin to reign in my soul; so that my heart may become the grave of my two evil twins, arrogance and anger; so that I might amass all my treasure in Heaven; ah, so that I may for once be freed from self-deception, which has entangled me in the dreadful web of illusory life.

Enemies have taught me to know what hardly anyone knows, that a person has no enemies in the world except himself. One hates his enemies only when he fails to realize that they are not enemies, but cruel friends. It is truly difficult for me to say who has done me more good and who has done me more evil in the world: friends or enemies. Therefore, Lord, bless both my friends and my enemies. A slave curses enemies, for he does not understand. But a son blesses them, for he understands. For a son knows that his enemies cannot touch his life. Therefore he freely steps among them and prays to God for them. Bless my enemies, Lord. Even I bless them and do not curse them.

I can prove some of your false teachings, and yes, other sects believe they are the ones also but have untruths also like you, but no more aggregious than what you believe.

And I am sure that we can prove plenty of your false teachings, according to the standards of the Holy Orthodox Faith, which is the TRUE faith, given to us by Christ and spread by the Apostles.

Insofar as what you believe about the teachings of Orthodoxy and their supposedly being "false" by whose or what standard will you be judging them but your own? Certainly not by the fathers of theChurch, whose own writings would disprove yours.

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All I can do is hand you the truth, you still need to pick it up.

Orthodoxy is the truth and perhaps you would be able to see it if you would open your eyes.

So I gather that you think that we should throw out 2,000+ years of the Catholic and Apostolic faith because you pop on the forum and are going to lead us to the truth, huh?

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Just like them you are not in the truth either.

That is your opinion, which I might add is false.

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One can say that you have warped or mutilated the church into coporate structures and a regional faith. O the vanity.

We could say that it is you that has warped and mutilated the Church, because protestantism is not united in faith and I could prove it to you if you put a Baptist minister, a Lutheran and a Methodist minister in the same room together and asked which one of their interpretations of Christianity is the truth and why they are right and the other two are wrong. If there was any unity in protestantism then there wouldn't be so many variations of protestant churches around.

I was saved no sooner than 1995, but no later than January, 2001 by the grace of God. Seeds were planted as early as 1995 when I received a most amazing miracle in my life from which I began to consider God of the Bible, but I believe I received initial salvation in January, 2001 based on circumstances in my life in which I finally gave up and gave in to Christ. He gave me eternal life right there in a moment according to John 6.47, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

So, you started to receive your salvation in 1995, but it didn't finally stick until 2001?

In order for you to have been "saved" you had to "give up and give in to Christ"? How does one give in to Christ?

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From then on I was devoted and knew Him. Subsequently, within a few months afterwards, I had an experience in the Holy Spirit in which I thought my spirit had reached Third Heaven, though I can not be certain. I never wanted it to end, it was so incredible unlike anything I had ever experienced in my life. I prayed for it to last as long as possible, and it lasted a half an hour. I believe God gives us these experiences as a memory of his amazing power and a foretaste of what Heaven will be like so that we keep one eye on Him at all times diligent in our walk in the spirit and the Word.

The whole experience as you described it above sounds like it is straight out of an occult or new age book, if I do say so myself.

I have read about such experiences in a book that you should see if your local library has - "Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future", by Fr. Seraphim Rose. It will be well worth your time to read it. Perhaps you could and then come back online and discuss it with us.

Put your judgmental spirit aside for the moment. The false accuser blames but has nothing to blame with. The reason we have the blood of Christ is because we are literally accussed of the truth, but there is nothing you can say to that but rest on the cross with Christ as He died for us and let the false accuser pass.

What I am showing you by the Holy Spirit is what God's will is. His will is to see the church in locality, not a boundary greater than this, and not a boundary smaller than this. What is locality? It is orthodoxy.

It is all explained here. There are two books at the bottom of the page as well. All the information you need to understand how the apostles operated is how God wants us to operate today in church locality.http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm

p.s. the way you give into Christ is just by the way John 6.47, 3.16,18 states. Do not throw 2000 years away. But remember what God said, do not say you are of apollos or you are of Paul or you are of John or you are of Christ. No. For the equivalent of saying you are orthodoxy is one of these. Even saying you are nondenominational is like saying you are of Christ. God does not ever divide the body of Christ on people, doctrine, region, state, provice, or by any means other than one. It is called locality. The prophets and the teachers chose Paul and Paul went forth to build the churches. Paul went forth from a church in locality. For example there is the church in Jerusalem in the churches of Judah and there is the church of Ephesus in the churches of Asia Minor. And where I live there is the churches of Sherwood Park in the chuches of Alberta Canada. They call Alberta God's Country, nice eh?

I hope you see this solution in your heart of hearts to build the body of Christ in a way that God is waiting for. What will the rest of the world think when we do this on mass together. It will happen, and you may even begin to see it in a major way in your lifetime.

Pray on this, then submit your church locality, as the Lord leads you. Do not care what the rest think or what peer pressure may be involved. This is God's will and He will reveal it in your spirit.http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm

Put your judgmental spirit aside for the moment. The false accuser blames but has nothing to blame with. The reason we have the blood of Christ is because we are literally accussed of the truth, but there is nothing you can say to that but rest on the cross with Christ as He died for us and let the false accuser pass.

Huh? False accuser? Who?

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What I am showing you by the Holy Spirit is what God's will is. His will is to see the church in locality, not a boundary greater than this, and not a boundary smaller than this. What is locality? It is orthodoxy.

It is all explained here. There are two books at the bottom of the page as well. All the information you need to understand how the apostles operated is how God wants us to operate today in church locality.http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm

p.s. the way you give into Christ is just by the way John 6.47, 3.16,18 states.

I'm so glad you came to enlighten us on the Will of God. Because we've been following something else for the last 2000 years.

Orthodoxy is different from your denomination because Orthodoxy is based on the living experience of the Church--the Body of Christ--over its 2000 year history since its founding by Christ, whereas your Church believes that only that which is in the Bible as interpreted by you and the Holy Spirit is true. You base your religion on a principle--ie that the Bible is true--and everything flows from that, whereas we base our faith on the fact that Christ has had an encounter with the Church for 2000 years and everything we do is based on that living experience.

If your religion is true then why are there so many different kinds of "bible believers" who can't agree on the basics of the Bible?

Christ Himself established the Orthodox Church by 33 A.D. When was yours founded? The Scriptures themselves talk about a hierarchy in the Church. It also says that the members of the Church are to obey those whom God has put over them since they are responsible to God for you (see Hebrews 13:17). That's one of those verses that don't get underlined in many churches, since it would create a conflict for them.

We do teach the truth--you just don't like it. You are more than welcome to post here, but please don't try to convert us. Most of us are converts--the great majority of us from Protestant denominations. We've been there, done that, and it didn't satisfy us.

Yes you did bear false witness, and yes I can prove some of your false teachings, and yes, other sects believe they are the ones also but have untruths also like you, but no more aggregious than what you believe.

Nope. You're the one doing that.

I'm not Orthodox.

Have a nice day.

Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Thank you, Anastasios, for posting the prayer. It was much appreciated and appropriate.

From drawing on my clinical experience rather anything else may I suggest simply ignoring Churchwork's posts. Debate is not possible and merely provides a cue for more propaganda. There are other serious contributors and genuine enquirers who read and post here to engage.

Also, there is a difference between judging which is reserved to Him alone and prudence. Prudence may dictate I may avoid the company of some people or activities, it does not mean I am judging anyone. Reproving someone who appears to be acting in an unwise or spiritually dangerous or misleading way is not judging either but an act of love for a neighbour, surely?

Similarly, not feeding the delusion or mischief being sown by another is not judging either.........

Orthodoxy is different from your denomination because Orthodoxy is based on the living experience of the Church--the Body of Christ--over its 2000 year history since its founding by Christ, whereas your Church believes that only that which is in the Bible as interpreted by you and the Holy Spirit is true. You base your religion on a principle--ie that the Bible is true--and everything flows from that, whereas we base our faith on the fact that Christ has had an encounter with the Church for 2000 years and everything we do is based on that living experience.

If your religion is true then why are there so many different kinds of "bible believers" who can't agree on the basics of the Bible?

Anastasios

I am of no denomination. That was mistake #1. Your accusation that the Holy Spirit is not true. That was mistake #2. Othodoxy is based on the living experience of the church the past 2000 years. Untruth #3. It is the church that is built the last 2000 years not the divisional this or that orthodoxy or protestant or RCC. Man loves to find something to cling to that he prides himself with, you have found yours. They like to add on words to the church and to the body of Christ. That is man's way, his flesh. Christ never established the orthodox church. Satan did. Christ established the church. No pride.

Why are you not obeying me? You are being disobedient according to Heb. 13.17, but that would make sense since you don't abide in the Holy Spirit.http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/needtoagree.htm This obviously creates a conflict for you so you remain disobedient and don't accept God's authority set up prefering some man-made way.

You are unable to convert me because I am forever in Christ, and only share with you the love of the Lord for you to come out of your dividing the body of Christ away from Biblical locality by regional mentality and larger than the boundary of the church in locality.

My prayers go out to you, may you have a contrite heart to change, and not go to protestantism nor stay in regional orthodoxy with so many little toys and idols.

Thank you, Anastasios, for posting the prayer. It was much appreciated and appropriate.

From drawing on my clinical experience rather anything else may I suggest simply ignoring Churchwork's posts. Debate is not possible and merely provides a cue for more propaganda. There are other serious contributors and genuine enquirers who read and post here to engage.

Also, there is a difference between judging which is reserved to Him alone and prudence. Prudence may dictate I may avoid the company of some people or activities, it does not mean I am judging anyone. Reproving someone who appears to be acting in an unwise or spiritually dangerous or misleading way is not judging either but an act of love for a neighbour, surely?

Similarly, not feeding the delusion or mischief being sown by another is not judging either.........

Clinical experience speaks of emotion and emotion is of the soul's stirrings, but we in Christ abide in the Holy Spirit and are moved in our spirits, not by our vascillating emotions. Debate should not be your touchstone anyway, but uplifting the body of Christ. This place is not healthy so to continue the conversation is not to engage spiritual life while still holding onto a false principle trying to operate the church outside the Biblical boundaries of the church in locality, eg. the church of Jerusalem in the church of Judah. Do not listen, that is your choice, but you will be held accountable for not listening before, not now, and not in the future remaining divisive and not led by the Holy Spirit in remaining divisive. How we love to live in your cubby holes.

Prudently, I can not stay here long, but I only come for a post or two to help the spirit here that needs to die on the cross in regional division.

My prayers go out to you. I can only give you the truth, you still have to pick it up. My work is done here,http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htmGod's work on locality has been completed here, now it is up to you to take a stand for God and come out of your cubby hole, and a big one at that regionally quite wide across many nations. That is not orthodox but unorthodox since the body of Christ is never seen in the Bible dividing this way.

Shame on you. Shame on you all. Now wake up from your deep sleep!

It is done, what is needed to be said is now said. Make no mistake the Lord is angry at you, and you will be punished for not repenting.

St Nicholas of Athens, St Nektarios of Aegina, St Basil the Great, St Anastasios of Sinai, and all the saints: intercede for Troy Brooks that he might come to a knowledge of Our Lord Jesus Christ, that He may receive Holy Baptism by triple immersion from an Orthodox priest, and that He may accept the True Church and salvation. Amen.

Christ is one God, with one death and one resurrection. He is one Faith, one Truth, one right belief, and has established one Church with the one Holy Spirit. Bless the Lord for the unity of faith in Jesus Christ! That which He has established will never be destroyed.

Most holy Theotokos, pray to your Son for the unworthy servants Troy and Maria, and all people who seek the Truth.

I read your 23 propositions. You may claim you are not Protestant but you are, because your dispensationalist, chillianistic heresy is Protestant.

Anastasios

They are not propositions, they are with authority that I ask these questions to confirm informal apostles. Dispensation means God works in time, as He revealed Himself to the Jews, today, they reject Him, so He reveals Himself to the gentiles and the Jews, and just as today was a period that contained hiltler, not a millennial kingdom, it will come a day when this dispensation of the church age will end leading into the millennial kingdom reign of Christ with His overcomers. This is not necessarily the case for a protestant who may be a historicalists, but that teaching is wrong since God wants to have a time of great peace called the millennial kingdom which He will reign for 1000 years in Christ. Now since chillianism was the prominent view in the first century, that would prove that your orthodoxy is actually unorthodox, a heresy having no faith that Christ can rein in Person for 1000 years (Rev. 20.2-6) for the Revelation is of the future, not the past.

I am not obeying you because the Lord Jesus Christ commanded me and all others to become Orthodox.

Anastasios

Since God never asked anyone to be orthodoxical, that is not Christ who is commanding you, but another spirit. God asks every believer to come to Him not to divide the church any way other than Biblical locality.

St Nicholas of Athens, St Nektarios of Aegina, St Basil the Great, St Anastasios of Sinai, and all the saints: intercede for Troy Brooks that he might come to a knowledge of Our Lord Jesus Christ, that He may receive Holy Baptism by triple immersion from an Orthodox priest, and that He may accept the True Church and salvation. Amen.

Ummm.....okayWhat, your work as new-doctrine-peddler-de-jour?Just curious--when did God anoint you as His prophet? In what "locality" were you residing when you had your vision?You seem to have a high degree of self-importance. Perhaps you are the one with whom God is "angry". (you know--beam, speck, etc.)

Let go of your evil eye. All I said was true. The false accuser will come at me many ways though as I see he is trying to do through you with bad reasoning de-jour and an unloving heart.

Christ is one God, with one death and one resurrection. He is one Faith, one Truth, one right belief, and has established one Church with the one Holy Spirit. Bless the Lord for the unity of faith in Jesus Christ! That which He has established will never be destroyed.

Most holy Theotokos, pray to your Son for the unworthy servants Troy and Maria, and all people who seek the Truth.

You forgot to mention yourself. It is the flesh that prays this unworthiness prayer upon others, but not for self. Next time when you do this include yourself so as to be humble in the Lord. Praise the Lord!