Anyone listened to my Virgil Donati suggestion? Would have been interested in comments and opinions... :)

Doesn't do much for me... Impressive, yes, but Virgil's drumming has never managed to convey any real feeling to me. To my ears, he manages to sound bored even when playing those insane polyrhythmic pieces, and I really can't listen to him much. I saw the Virgil Donati band live a few years ago, and it literally put me to sleep;it just sounded so uninspired and complex for the sake of complexity.

That being said, I definitely have massive respect for the breathtaking amount of work that he's put into his drumming. Those skills don't come easily.

Doesn't do much for me... Impressive, yes, but Virgil's drumming has never managed to convey any real feeling to me. To my ears, he manages to sound bored even when playing those insane polyrhythmic pieces, and I really can't listen to him much. I saw the Virgil Donati band live a few years ago, and it literally put me to sleep;it just sounded so uninspired and complex for the sake of complexity.

That being said, I definitely have massive respect for the breathtaking amount of work that he's put into his drumming. Those skills don't come easily.

Sorry, but you asked ;-)

I feel the same way exactly. Without wanting to sound harsh or bash Virigil, I think the music was absolutely terrible (and not just this one, also all the PlanetX stuff or the things he played with Vai). The sounds are somewhat cheesy and the whole thing just sounds forced to be as complex as possible. I just cannot find anything to like in there at all, and I tried really hard.

I have a big tendency to rate drummers not by what they are capable of playing, but by what music they play. That's why I don't care for most of the chops monsters out there - most of the time the music they play just doesn't appeal to me at all which also means that the drumming doesn't appeal to me either. It might be impressive from a technical point of view, but really: who cares about that?
Maybe this also has something to do with growing up and knowing a lot of stuff. around 10-14 years back I was only impressed with music that was as complex as possible. I thought that only if music was technically challanging (like with tons of crazy odd-meters, 25 minute long tracks etc. etc) it was good music. Today I have to laugh at myself for how wrong and arrogant I was to think along these lines.
Playing music with the correct feel and finding that one fill that might be very simple but best for the music makes so much more sense to me now and is also so much more difficult in a way, it seems to take some listening and playing experience (esp. for drummers who easily get taken away by great technical display) to realize and understand this, at least for me it did.

If I compare this with the SHT stuff that someone posted in here with JoJo playing, I think there is a class difference. The whole band just has great fun playing that stuff, it's really complex as well but rooted in Jazz, Fusion and Funk with great songwriting going on (Fiuzynski is a great writer and bandleader), so all the crazyness that JoJo plays on that record is put in a musically meaningfull syntax.

Since this thread is about great fills, I'd like to ask this question: Is a fill great because it serves the music just perfectly or is the music only there as a medium for the drummer to show off?

BTW: Matthias (and everybody else who might got offended by this post), I wasn't trying to bash your musical taste at all here. These are all things that I found for myself and that don't apply to everybody. It's all highly subjective after all. I only posted this, because you asked for it. :)

No problem. Well just for the record, although I know that idea of thinking only complex playing is good playing (years ago when I was into Dream Theater), I do know, appreciate and dig different styles of music. Among my favourite bands or singers are also many very simple examples of music, at the end of the day it's just personal taste, no matter the playing. I happen to love On The Virg nonetheless though :D. Not too fond of Planet X either. I think there are some worlds between those two.

Since this thread is about great fills, I'd like to ask this question: Is a fill great because it serves the music just perfectly or is the music only there as a medium for the drummer to show off?

In reality could probably be either technically brilliant and maybe you could then use that fill for other songs but personally I prefer it when it works with the music as it has more feel and hence the two I chose further back of Fool in The Rain - John Bonham and Sukarita - Simon Phillips because the good drumming so helps to enhance the track.

I have a big tendency to rate drummers not by what they are capable of playing, but by what music they play. That's why I don't care for most of the chops monsters out there - most of the time the music they play just doesn't appeal to me at all which also means that the drumming doesn't appeal to me either. It might be impressive from a technical point of view, but really: who cares about that?

+1

In earlier years I was more prone to separate drumming and music, which in hindsight tends to miss the point, but after an 8-year break from playing my attitude changed. I was once again listening more to the meaning and feeling of the music than its construction, although sometimes I still over-analyse. It's a habit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickRick

IPlaying music with the correct feel and finding that one fill that might be very simple but best for the music makes so much more sense to me now and is also so much more difficult in a way, it seems to take some listening and playing experience (esp. for drummers who easily get taken away by great technical display) to realize and understand this, at least for me it did.

And you play with very pleasing feel too! That struck me after hearing the first few bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickRick

Since this thread is about great fills, I'd like to ask this question: Is a fill great because it serves the music just perfectly or is the music only there as a medium for the drummer to show off?

Definitely the song; the context makes all the difference. What if Phil Collins started In the Air Tonight with the signature fill rather than building the tension for 2/3rds of the song? Still cool, but not the same.

A bit of musical acrobatics can be a buzz in measured doses but I can't listen to "circus drumming" for more than a song or two.

Since this thread is about great fills, I'd like to ask this question: Is a fill great because it serves the music just perfectly or is the music only there as a medium for the drummer to show off?

My original question was for fills that are just so absolutely stunning in terms of timing, feeling and dynamics that songs become worth listening to just for that fill. Yes, I know that a lot depends on the context, getting it right in the music and so on, but this topic is just about that insanely timed fill. By the way, I don't mean the kind of very technical brrrr-brrrr-brrrrrrr stuff. Yes, awesome display of power, and it might even be great musically, but again, I wanted to know about timing and feeling.

For flash, Phil Collin's fill in Brand X's Nuclear Burn at around 2:50 is so rEdiculously slick it makes me laugh. At around the 4:50 mark and again at around 4:30 the whole band goes insane - these guys were having a ball.

Beautiful fill and beautiful song and album. First time I ever witnessed a female would make reference to something such as this. I've been listening to this particular band and this song for years. I especially love the sound at 0:59/1:00.. I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about. Thank you (Pollyanna) for showing me more proof that there is a God.

Nice to resurrect this thread, aesthete. It reminds me that this was where I first heard Black Dub. Now half my band has their album.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aesthete

Beautiful fill and beautiful song and album. First time I ever witnessed a female would make reference to something such as this.

How many women drummers do you know? :) Terri-Lynne Carrington, Hilary Jones and Cindy Blackman can all play high energy fusion. I wish more women would be prepared to roll up their sleeves and get a bit messy on the kit rather than just singing and being pretty little things up front. But I guess that's what most guys want from us :(

Haha - fill city! When it comes to restraint there are times when Mitch makes Moonie look like Charlie Watts :) At Monteray he seemed to play question and answer with himself for half the gig - one bar beat and one bar fill, or half bar beat, half bar fill.

Miles Davis Eighty One. The little interlude/fill Tony plays from 4:00 to 4:03 has always killed me. A musical mind unburdened by notions of licks or cliches just playing something fresh on the spot, complementing the music at that moment with consideration to where the song has been and where it's going. Man, if only it was easy to do that.

The way the beat comes in and then the massive triplet fill which is just completely overwhelming, beautiful, chock full of emotion, in fact I would say that's one of the most emotion filled drum performances I've ever heard. It serves as the climax to the whole song and it really makes the song come together. Absolutely stunning.

While most of the fills here are from the masters, this one is by a relatively unknown, Kashikura Takashi, imo he's completely amazing, listen for yourself!

I was more inclined to remove the drums and music, which, in hindsight tends to miss the point, but after a period of 8 years of playing my attitude has changed. I was once again to hear more about the meaning and feeling of the music of its construction, but sometimes also analyzed. It's a habit.

This guy (Mikkey Dee) still blows me away. This track is almost 25 years old so mind the production then reproduction.
His chops are good but from a style point, he's still one of the absolute best of all time IMO, for my taste anyway.
The opening fill is one of my absolute faves, and then they just keep going after that.