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and i just lost interest...any mmo that will come out in the future with tab target combat will fail...its as easy as that...times have changed and we have all seen that and done that...we can just play wow which is exactly that and has a bazillion of content...yeah its not sandbox, but we got darkfall and eve for that...

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Originally posted by Nemesis7884

and i just lost interest...any mmo that will come out in the future with tab target combat will fail...its as easy as that...times have changed and we have all seen that and done that...we can just play wow which is exactly that and has a bazillion of content...yeah its not sandbox, but we got darkfall and eve for that...

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Originally posted by Nemesis7884

and i just lost interest...any mmo that will come out in the future with tab target combat will fail...its as easy as that...times have changed and we have all seen that and done that...we can just play wow which is exactly that and has a bazillion of content...yeah its not sandbox, but we got darkfall and eve for that...

no action combat, no future

Yes - this is a concern I also have.

About Pathfinder Online becoming "another tab-target + hot-key combat" mmorpg, as well, make no mistake. So I am in a similar frame of mind as you. But did you look at the blogs? If so, what did you think of the ideas there?

=

Additional context:

Not action combat; some form of tab-target with a hot-bar via weapon slotting (with skill slotting - see 3.)

Many different context to combat

Power curve is very small for skill-training then horizontal skill addition

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sure does, but a) tab target combat is simply boring - it doesnt matter if you like it or not, it is boring - any combat where you can watch tv besides and is just repetitive button mashing is boring...games with tab target combat try to work around this (like gw2) but it doesnt really change the fact... and b) there are allready countless good mmo games with this kind of combat, you simply dont need another one which isnt even gonna be an aaa title...what kind of chance does such a title have against franchises such as star wars, elder scrolls or world of warcraft...?

its something completly different if tab target combat is turn based, thats where the strategy geek comes in (and believe me im a die hard 4x fan) - but thats a different animal alltogether - there is simply no denying that games like chivalry allow for much more intense and fun combat...or why else would so many tab-target players use macros and bots and shit - they are so bored of the always same routine, they dont even play themselves anymore

if somone would come up with a sandbox mmo with theme park characteristics (e.g. story & quests) and a combat system like chivalry/mount&blade etc..and a good pvp system, i guarantee you we have a wow competitor, cause its eversything wow doesnt have

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Originally posted by Nemesis7884

and i just lost interest...any mmo that will come out in the future with tab target combat will fail...its as easy as that...times have changed and we have all seen that and done that...we can just play wow which is exactly that and has a bazillion of content...yeah its not sandbox, but we got darkfall and eve for that...

no action combat, no future

Many of us don't want action combat. If I want action combat then I will go play a fps. Just because a game has tab targetting doesn't make it like wow. I have seen action combat, and done that. It doesn't belong in an MMO imo.

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Originally posted by Nemesis7884

sure does, but a) tab target combat is simply boring - it doesnt matter if you like it or not, it is boring - any combat where you can watch tv besides and is just repetitive button mashing is boring...games with tab target combat try to work around this (like gw2) but it doesnt really change the fact... and b) there are allready countless good mmo games with this kind of combat, you simply dont need another one which isnt even gonna be an aaa title...what kind of chance does such a title have against franchises such as star wars, elder scrolls or world of warcraft...?

its something completly different if tab target combat is turn based, thats where the strategy geek comes in (and believe me im a die hard 4x fan) - but thats a different animal alltogether - there is simply no denying that games like chivalry allow for much more intense and fun combat...or why else would so many tab-target players use macros and bots and shit - they are so bored of the always same routine, they dont even play themselves anymore

if somone would come up with a sandbox mmo with theme park characteristics (e.g. story & quests) and a combat system like chivalry/mount&blade etc..and a good pvp system, i guarantee you we have a wow competitor, cause its eversything wow doesnt have

I completely agree with this and just as interested to see if Goblin Works can achieve a more interesting strategy to combat as you say - tab-target aping actiony is shallow strategy on the right-hand and not visceral enough either on the left-hand.

So if GW can go in the direction of interesting strategy/decision making with tab-target there is real possibility there imo.

The Stamina System - effectiveness decision-making

Some rock-paper-scissors out-smarting anticipation

Equipment aligning damage vs defence context

Those sorts of interesting layers.

Edit: This was interesting for what makes RPG's interesting combat ie strategy:

The reason I bring this up isn't because I hate DPS and I think that DPS is something that shouldn't exist - on the contrary, it has worked very well for certain games. My problems with it are mostly caused by the way in which it has helped transform RPGs from a unique style of game with their own nuanced rule systems, towards action games with glorified progression systems. DPS has definitely been a boon as far as marketability and mainstream appeal goes - just like leveling up, it's an easy carrot for players to follow that is basically foolproof in significance - but generally speaking, all the classic RPG fans I know are very much aware of the differences in gameplay that DPS brings. The ones who have embraced it are primarily not of the same community that originally supported RPGS in the first place.

That's not to say that DPS, is solely responsible for this degradation in RPG gameplay, and many of those effects of DPS are secondary in nature and can be altered. For example, DPS doesn't force developers to use only one damage type, but it does certainly encourage it, and once you've started to create DPS with all the nuance and depth of the older systems by adding additional modifiers on top of it, well, we've really just come full circle and made DPS obsolete anyway. DPS is a trend that's critically approaching the same level of saturation as XP progression in shooters, and I'm afraid that it's slowly taking us down the road towards homogenization of genres.

You sound like you are used to dev-content where eveything is very controlled. Please explain yourself!

Edit: To be sure: You can say, zerg in themepark is boring and I'd agree, but mmorpgs need to take risks and less control on how the players interacting because that also leads to more predictable outcomes trying to control for that.... so more variable contexts of "anything that could happen... will eventually happen" events occurring in mmorpgs.

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@OP

You know, just because your opinion says that tab combat is boring doesnt really make it so, so instead of saying 'That IS boring', it'd be more appropriate to say that 'I find that to be boring', as it's an opinion not a fact.

I mean, if I was to go around and say that action combat is boring, then people who disagree with me might feel that I'm saying that my opinion matters more than theirs, and that I might be trying to force my opinion on them, but if I was to say, 'I find it to be boring', I'm clearly stating that this is a statement, not a fact.

I for one do like tab combat, and I do like action combat aswell, so I can't really agree with you that a game is "doomed" because of it's combat choices, as there are so many others aspects that make a game unique and fun.

I mean look at Age of Wushu: not the most fun combat system, but people seem to really like it because of other aspects.

and then look at TERA: exciting "actiony" combat, but the rest of the design choices aren't as...strong?(IMO). People seem to stay away from it (and just to clarify, I do not hate TERA :P)

if TERA is a bad choice of game, as it's P2P and AOW is not, what about RadierZ? I don't really see much talk about that one either.

I don't really mean to "piss on your parade" or anything, and I'll get out of your hair in a minute, I just wanted to stop by and state my opinion about not judging a game out of one aspect... And the whole "statement || fact" thingie.

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These adjectives refer to what is so uninteresting as to cause mental weariness. Boring implies feelings of listlessness and discontent

What is monotonous bores because of lack of variety

Tedious suggests dull slowness or long-windedness

Irksome describes what is demanding of time and effort and yet is dull and often unrewarding

Something tiresome fatigues because it seems to be interminable or to be marked by unremitting sameness

Humdrum refers to what is commonplace, trivial, or unexcitingly routine

pretty much the definition of tabtargeting...

but as yo said, you may disagree...i stand by my statement that any new mmo that introduces the same used tried true tab target lock system will fail...and im waiting to be proven wrong for quite some time now

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Tab Targeting has just been done the same way over the series of released games the past few years. That does not mean tab targeting can not be expanded and utilized in all new ways to provide a more robust and innovative form of combat. The tab targeting concept isn't the problem, its the lack of imagination in its utilization that is the problem.

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the problem is, action combat games - such as tera, often get the combat right but everything else wrong while with tab target games its the other way around, and i fail to understand why its so damn hard to do it right...

and if archeage is being released 2014, 2015, 2020 or any time has yet to be seen after the 346th beta...

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I really don't see what the targeting method has to do with combat being action-y or not. For example, do you know what GW2's targeting method is quite similar to? Devil May Cry's targeting. DMC is the epitome of crazy, player skill -focused action and it uses an automatic targeting system, because aiming is simply not important in a game like that. It's not important in TERA, either, because you'd have to be blind not to hit that game's slow-moving monsters that cover half of your screen.