paco74 wrote:Easy to answer there, mi amigo. That scenario was much different. You see, you can't have a claim to the throne unless your father was the king. Joffrey and Tommen were not Robert's children, therefore any any of his children bastard or low-born would have a better claim to the throne. The secret was out that Robert's "seed is strong" as in his genes were dominant regardless of the mother. All his real children had black/brown hair...ALL. That was why Cersei had to kill off all of them. Gendry got away and in the books, so did his only bastard-born son, Cedric, when Davos stole him away from Stannis and Melissandre. Cedric would have the best claim to the throne followed by Gendry...especially since the Baratheon line is down to those two. Of course, if we go by Targaryen line, I still think Jon has the strongest claim over Dany simply because he is male.

Does Aegon have more of a right than Jon?

Also, regarding Jamie killing Cersei...it seems almost too obvious at this point, which to me is why the Arya wearing his face is actually really plausible.

Assuming Aegon is really Aegon, and to clarify to others, Aegon is a character strictly from the books, then yes he would have the absolute best claim as first born of Rhaegal Targaryen . I want to believe that Aegon is a Targaryen and not a Blackfire but who knows at this point. Varys could have just figured he could raise a Blackfire child, who most have the same platinum blonde hair and purplish eyes because of their Targaryen lineage, as Aegon but have him raise just as it is explained in the books, that ruling is not a right but something done for the people.

Yeah, the Jaime Cersei thing is pretty obvious at this point, but so was Jon's true parents and I'm glad Martin did not change any of that story line. Martin said in an interview a year or so ago that fans had already correctly guessed some of the story lines and he had briefly contemplated changing things to spice stuff up but chose not too. The word VALONQAR is High Valyrian for "little brother", but as it has been explained in the books and now on the show (S7E2) High Valyrian did not specify sex. So, in this case I think it is "little sibling". Also, there is nothing in the Maggy the Frog's prophecy that specifically says it will be Cersei's sibling, just a younger sibling. So, at this point it is probable that Arya could be the one. To add a little twist to that, remember that Arya is not the youngest remaining Stark.....Bran is!

Also, regarding Jamie killing Cersei...it seems almost too obvious at this point, which to me is why the Arya wearing his face is actually really plausible.

Assuming Aegon is really Aegon, and to clarify to others, Aegon is a character strictly from the books, then yes he would have the absolute best claim as first born of Rhaegal Targaryen . I want to believe that Aegon is a Targaryen and not a Blackfire but who knows at this point. Varys could have just figured he could raise a Blackfire child, who most have the same platinum blonde hair and purplish eyes because of their Targaryen lineage, as Aegon but have him raise just as it is explained in the books, that ruling is not a right but something done for the people.

Yeah, the Jaime Cersei thing is pretty obvious at this point, but so was Jon's true parents and I'm glad Martin did not change any of that story line. Martin said in an interview a year or so ago that fans had already correctly guessed some of the story lines and he had briefly contemplated changing things to spice stuff up but chose not too. The word VALONQAR is High Valyrian for "little brother", but as it has been explained in the books and now on the show (S7E2) High Valyrian did not specify sex. So, in this case I think it is "little sibling". Also, there is nothing in the Maggy the Frog's prophecy that specifically says it will be Cersei's sibling, just a younger sibling. So, at this point it is probable that Arya could be the one. To add a little twist to that, remember that Arya is not the youngest remaining Stark.....Bran is!

I always enjoy your GoT takes.

Speaking of changes, I think Martin will write his books based on how things are accepted and criticized on the show. I think that's why the rumor is that Winds of Winter won't come out until the show has ended.

Thanks, USC. I hope Martin just does his thing regardless of what people think. He's had a plan for the characters and I really hope he doesn't bend to the will of the masses and just gives us his vision of the story. We could have a full thread that could go on for years just comparing books to show strictly for Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring.

paco74 wrote:Thanks, USC. I hope Martin just does his thing regardless of what people think. He's had a plan for the characters and I really hope he doesn't bend to the will of the masses and just gives us his vision of the story. We could have a full thread that could go on for years just comparing books to show strictly for Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring.

I agree. And really, at this point, what's the big deal if the books and the series diverge? I wouldn't be upset. I'd be more upset if Martin forced himself to go along with the series' version of events.

paco74 wrote:Exactly, not to mention it could cut some of his book profits if people no longer cared what was happening. The end will be similar if not the same, but the path will and already is much different.

I don't know the specifics, but I'd wager Martin has already made far more money than he ever expected off of Game of Thrones.

paco74 wrote:Exactly, not to mention it could cut some of his book profits if people no longer cared what was happening. The end will be similar if not the same, but the path will and already is much different.

I don't know the specifics, but I'd wager Martin has already made far more money than he ever expected off of Game of Thrones.

No freaking doubt about that. With all the book sales, HBO money, and merch profits, I would think he will or maybe already has reached J.K. Rowling status. I'm just waiting for the Islands of Adventure attraction to come out LOL!

If Cersei is telling the truth, that means she will be dead in 9 months. In this show that could be an episode or 2 seasons. Littlefinger is playing Arya hard. It appears to be against John Snow, but maybe against Sansa as well.

Rocker wrote:Surprised no one has mentioned that the show basically confirmed Jon is a natural born son, and has the best claim on the throne...

That was from when Sam's girl was reading the book, right?

That and the scene with Jon and Drogon.

I know Samwell was busy whining about the Maester's, but I kept waiting for the proverbial light bulb to go off after what Gilly read to him registered in his brain.

It looks like Littlefinger is going to try and turn Arya against Sansa with that letter that Cersei instructed Sansa to write to Robb back in season one where she told them about Ned being accused of treason and telling them to bend the knee to Joffery.

The letter:

"Robb, I write to you with a heavy heart. Our good king Robert is dead, killed from wounds he took in a boar hunt. Father has been charged with treason. He conspired with Robert’s brothers against my beloved Joffrey and tried to steal his throne. The Lannisters are treating me very well and provide me with every comfort. I beg you: come to King’s Landing, swear fealty to King Joffrey and prevent any strife between the great houses of Lannister and Stark."

That is going to really piss off Arya and you know she's going to confront Sansa. They'll argue and then later, Assface will console Sansa and spin more bullshit to sway her back to his side. With Jon being absent, that only helps Littlefinger. He's one hell of a schemer that one.

Rocker wrote:Surprised no one has mentioned that the show basically confirmed Jon is a natural born son, and has the best claim on the throne...

I'm not sure how the hierarchy works in the GoT world in terms of who would have the best claim. But Jon being the last Targaryen male makes sense that he would have the best claim.

My question is; does Gendry have a better claim than Cersi? Not that it matters b/c how could Gendry prove he's really the bastard son of Robert Baratheon.

The Targaryen's ruled for a very long time. Baratheon took the throne during his rebellion. Gendry would have right of rule over Cersei by way of being Robert's heir; putting Cersei back into the role of queen mother; for about ten seconds before Gendry put daddy's warhammer through her face. As far as rightful rulership goes; that'd depend on whether you thought the dynasty of House Targaryen should still reign versus the "current" House of Baratheon. The Lannisters have no valid claim to the throne.

Hey, you guys are on point after this episode! Nice. Wow, this episode was fast, fast, fast. It is obvious now that weeks can go by just between scenes let alone episodes. So many things answered. Where do I begin?

Some of the best info came from Sam of course. He finally has given us a sense of the time that has passed. He said It has been years since he let Bran through the wall. The theory that Rhaegar and Lyanna were secretly married has been all but confirmed and also the theory that dragons can sense the Tagaryen bloodline. Does this finally set up the Tyrion is a Targaryen bastard theory? Maybe, since he too was able to calm not one but two dragons who had never met him AND their mother was not even around.

I try not to post too much episode info on a Monday but I think by now people know not to read in here without the possibility of a spoiler. That said...

Spoiler:

I was a bit disappointed with Dany killing Dickon..and really disappointed for Randall allowing Dickon to go out like that. I get it is the whole honor thing, but Tyrion had it right...the Tarlys did not have to fall on their swords for honor because they had already betrayed their liege house, the Tyrells. So Sam is now the only heir to House Tarly and he has the Valyrian sword. Problem is, how does he get free of the Watch?

Many guessed that the expedition north of the Wall could be to bring proof back, but I think it is a crappy plan that will probably just get half the party killed. A main character will die if not more and I'm already unhappy about it. My top guesses are Jorah, Davos, the Hound, Boros, Berrick, and to really pissed folks off...Tormund...cuz who don't want a little Tormund Brienne action!? Losing the Hound, Davos, or Tormund would really suck for me. The Hound is a doomed man, always had been, but I feel his ending should be more epic and should involve his brother somehow.

Gendry is a badass. 'Nuf said, but he has become hotheaded...just like his dad. That hammer tho. Would have been more cool if it was his father's hammer, but "that'll do, donkey. That'll do".

Moving on to Arya, Sansa, and Littlefinger. Littlefinger has moved up to the top of my must die soon list. Arya calling Sansa out was awesome. Looked into her soul and correctly labeled exactly who Sansa is and has been since childhood...entitled and desperate to be uber important at the expense of others. I hope this creates a shift for for the better in her. She of all the siblings was the one who never let Jon forget, as if he ever could, that he was a bastard. I don't know what Littlefinger's play is with the message sent from Sansa while she was a "guest" in King's Landing". I get trying to divide the sisters but how do the other lords play into that? I know he thinks..or the producers are making us think...that he is playing Arya, but I'd bet it all backfires somehow. I'd bet money that Baelish will not survive the season.

Moving south...how about the threat to Jaime? I'll leave it at that since it is Monday.

Great episode. Fast paced with many story lines being accelerated immensely. Only two left. It's going to be a long offseason until the last six episodes.

Rocker wrote:Surprised no one has mentioned that the show basically confirmed Jon is a natural born son, and has the best claim on the throne...

I'm not sure how the hierarchy works in the GoT world in terms of who would have the best claim. But Jon being the last Targaryen male makes sense that he would have the best claim.

My question is; does Gendry have a better claim than Cersi? Not that it matters b/c how could Gendry prove he's really the bastard son of Robert Baratheon.

Gendry is suppose to look very much like Robert. As far as proof, there is only hearsay from Davos, Berrick, maybe Melissandre and now Jon. Unless, the late Grand Maester of King's Landing kept records of Robert's seedlings, there wouldn't be any written proof. The best they have is how much Gendry resembles his father.

paco74 wrote:Hey, you guys are on point after this episode! Nice. Wow, this episode was fast, fast, fast. It is obvious now that weeks can go by just between scenes let alone episodes. So many things answered. Where do I begin?

Some of the best info came from Sam of course. He finally has given us a sense of the time that has passed. He said It has been years since he let Bran through the wall. The theory that Rhaegar and Lyanna were secretly married has been all but confirmed and also the theory that dragons can sense the Tagaryen bloodline. Does this finally set up the Tyrion is a Targaryen bastard theory? Maybe, since he too was able to calm not one but two dragons who had never met him AND their mother was not even around.I have loved this theory since I first saw it and I think it should be near the top of the Plausible Theories List.

I try not to post too much episode info on a Monday but I think by now people know not to read in here without the possibility of a spoiler. That said...

Spoiler:

I was a bit disappointed with Dany killing Dickon..and really disappointed for Randall allowing Dickon to go out like that. I get it is the whole honor thing, but Tyrion had it right...the Tarlys did not have to fall on their swords for honor because they had already betrayed their liege house, the Tyrells. So Sam is now the only heir to House Tarly and he has the Valyrian sword. Problem is, how does he get free of the Watch?Once (if?) the White Walkers are dealt with, there will be no further need for the Nights Watch, so the order will be disbanded. That will free Samwell to take over his father's house.

Many guessed that the expedition north of the Wall could be to bring proof back, but I think it is a crappy plan that will probably just get half the party killed. A main character will die if not more and I'm already unhappy about it. My top guesses are Jorah, Davos, the Hound, Boros, Berrick, and to really pissed folks off...Tormund...cuz who don't want a little Tormund Brienne action!? Losing the Hound, Davos, or Tormund would really suck for me. The Hound is a doomed man, always had been, but I feel his ending should be more epic and should involve his brother somehow.Yeah...this is going to suck bad for some of that party of seven. I still think the Hound's unfinished business with his brother will keep him around longer. And, yes, Tormund needs to live for no other reason than to have Brienne "spread her giant legs" for him. I stole that line from the Westerosi Rhapsody video above. heh

Gendry is a badass. 'Nuf said, but he has become hotheaded...just like his dad. That hammer tho. Would have been more cool if it was his father's hammer, but "that'll do, donkey. That'll do".It shouldn't be lost on anyone that Gendry's chosen weapon is the same as his departed father's. The writer's didn't let that happen by pure happenstance.

Moving on to Arya, Sansa, and Littlefinger. Littlefinger has moved up to the top of my must die soon list. Arya calling Sansa out was awesome. Looked into her soul and correctly labeled exactly who Sansa is and has been since childhood...entitled and desperate to be uber important at the expense of others. I hope this creates a shift for for the better in her. She of all the siblings was the one who never let Jon forget, as if he ever could, that he was a bastard. I don't know what Littlefinger's play is with the message sent from Sansa while she was a "guest" in King's Landing". I get trying to divide the sisters but how do the other lords play into that? I know he thinks..or the producers are making us think...that he is playing Arya, but I'd bet it all backfires somehow. I'd bet money that Baelish will not survive the season. I said my piece above on this. He wants to pit them against each other, but I'm not quite sure how he's hoping that plays out. However it does play out, I don't think he'll be please with the results.

Moving south...how about the threat to Jaime? I'll leave it at that since it is Monday.Yep. One more betrayal and Cersei will find someone else to fill her needs.

Great episode. Fast paced with many story lines being accelerated immensely. Only two left. It's going to be a long offseason until the last six episodes.

I've read the final episodes (season 8) may not air until 2018 or 2019 (see below). That would suck.

Talking about season eight, Bloys hinted at some bad news for Game of Thrones fans. Asked whether the final episodes could air in 2018 or 2019, he replied: “Yeah. They [showrunners David Benioff and D. B. Weiss] have to write the episodes and figure out the production schedule. We’ll have a better sense of that once they get further into the writing.”

I believe the delays are attributed to Mother Nature. Winter has come except on our planet. We are seeing less and less snow in places the producers want to film. So, filming will more than likely be postponed until their desired locations are ripe.

If anyone is interested in a possible leaked spoiler, check this out..oh and I do not want this at all but it is out there as a "real" leaked story line. Warning: Do NOT read if you fear this is actually real. I am hoping it isn't

Spoiler:

Jon is killed again while "ranging". Berrick Dondarian performs the kiss of life...blah blah says the right words to the Lord of Life and trades his remaining life so Jon can live. There was also something about Dany riding her dragons north just in time to save what remains of the expedition but one dragon is killed. That part is what has me thinking that it is all a bunch of BS

Anyone else love how Sam finally grew a small set and kind of tried to yell at Gilly and she just blew him off. LOL

paco74 wrote:I believe the delays are attributed to Mother Nature. Winter has come except on our planet. We are seeing less and less snow in places the producers want to film. So, filming will more than likely be postponed until their desired locations are ripe.

If anyone is interested in a possible leaked spoiler, check this out..oh and I do not want this at all but it is out there as a "real" leaked story line. Warning: Do NOT read if you fear this is actually real. I am hoping it isn't

Spoiler:

Jon is killed again while "ranging". Berrick Dondarian performs the kiss of life...blah blah says the right words to the Lord of Life and trades his remaining life so Jon can live. There was also something about Dany riding her dragons north just in time to save what remains of the expedition but one dragon is killed. That part is what has me thinking that it is all a bunch of BS

Anyone else love how Sam finally grew a small set and kind of tried to yell at Gilly and she just blew him off. LOL

Gilly was a daughter and wife of Craster. No way sugar-tits is going to intimidate her.

As for that spoiler, I think that would be really weak and would hope the writers could come up with something much better than that.

paco74 wrote:Hey, you guys are on point after this episode! Nice. Wow, this episode was fast, fast, fast. It is obvious now that weeks can go by just between scenes let alone episodes. So many things answered. Where do I begin?

Some of the best info came from Sam of course. He finally has given us a sense of the time that has passed. He said It has been years since he let Bran through the wall. The theory that Rhaegar and Lyanna were secretly married has been all but confirmed and also the theory that dragons can sense the Tagaryen bloodline. Does this finally set up the Tyrion is a Targaryen bastard theory? Maybe, since he too was able to calm not one but two dragons who had never met him AND their mother was not even around.

I try not to post too much episode info on a Monday but I think by now people know not to read in here without the possibility of a spoiler. That said...

Spoiler:

I was a bit disappointed with Dany killing Dickon..and really disappointed for Randall allowing Dickon to go out like that. I get it is the whole honor thing, but Tyrion had it right...the Tarlys did not have to fall on their swords for honor because they had already betrayed their liege house, the Tyrells. So Sam is now the only heir to House Tarly and he has the Valyrian sword. Problem is, how does he get free of the Watch?

Many guessed that the expedition north of the Wall could be to bring proof back, but I think it is a crappy plan that will probably just get half the party killed. A main character will die if not more and I'm already unhappy about it. My top guesses are Jorah, Davos, the Hound, Boros, Berrick, and to really pissed folks off...Tormund...cuz who don't want a little Tormund Brienne action!? Losing the Hound, Davos, or Tormund would really suck for me. The Hound is a doomed man, always had been, but I feel his ending should be more epic and should involve his brother somehow.

Gendry is a badass. 'Nuf said, but he has become hotheaded...just like his dad. That hammer tho. Would have been more cool if it was his father's hammer, but "that'll do, donkey. That'll do".

Moving on to Arya, Sansa, and Littlefinger. Littlefinger has moved up to the top of my must die soon list. Arya calling Sansa out was awesome. Looked into her soul and correctly labeled exactly who Sansa is and has been since childhood...entitled and desperate to be uber important at the expense of others. I hope this creates a shift for for the better in her. She of all the siblings was the one who never let Jon forget, as if he ever could, that he was a bastard. I don't know what Littlefinger's play is with the message sent from Sansa while she was a "guest" in King's Landing". I get trying to divide the sisters but how do the other lords play into that? I know he thinks..or the producers are making us think...that he is playing Arya, but I'd bet it all backfires somehow. I'd bet money that Baelish will not survive the season.

Moving south...how about the threat to Jaime? I'll leave it at that since it is Monday.

Great episode. Fast paced with many story lines being accelerated immensely. Only two left. It's going to be a long offseason until the last six episodes.

You can't lose Davos. He isn't going. He himself said he'd be a liability out there and everyone agreed.