^ I know I've said many times that a physical manifestation is not a requirement. I'm on the fence about whether or not there will be one, I don't particularly care one way or the other, what's important to someone like me is the bigger idea of the wall. Illegal immigration attempts are plunging since Trump took office (a "miraculous drop" according to border patrol bigwigs) - down about 50% year to year the last time I checked. Deportations of illegals are way up, about 30% the last time I checked.

Besides - what is a "wall" anyways? It's a deterrent - it's a a thing perceived as a protective or restrictive barrier. People are being deterred from even attempting to sneak into the US simply because Trump is in office. He is the wall.

^ I know I've said many times that a physical manifestation is not a requirement. I'm on the fence about whether or not there will be one, I don't particularly care one way or the other, what's important to someone like me is the bigger idea of the wall. Illegal immigration attempts are plunging since Trump took office (a "miraculous drop" according to border patrol bigwigs) - down about 50% year to year the last time I checked. Deportations of illegals are way up, about 30% the last time I checked.

Besides - what is a "wall" anyways? It's a deterrent - it's a a thing perceived as a protective or restrictive barrier. People are being deterred from even attempting to sneak into the US simply because Trump is in office. He is the wall.

I actually agree with you, Ram. The security apparatus is much more important. But you do understand that a large portion of Trump's voters expected a physical manifestation of an ACTUAL wall, right?

Logged

"They tell me of the River Cuyahoga in the Ohio territory; upon it a great city will emerge." - Correspondence of Thomas Jefferson in drafting 'Notes on the State of Virginia'

I love it when people come into a message board and immediately begin to mix it up. I mean, Jesus, at least say hello! Do you walk into a room full of strangers, pick a random woman, and tell her she's fat? - buildingcincinnati

guys who think that women owe them sex and are sad when reality doesn't reflect this belief are the #1 cause of mass murders globally.

I'm not sure it's that simple. In any case, if that was so bad, why did we elect someone with that mentality to the presidency? Seems to be fine for a lot of people.

well, we were willing to elect the spouse of a former president who served two terms with that same mentality. I guess there are no standards anymore.

Oh look, a Clinton deflection. You do realize that by saying this, you are actually admitting that Trump has this mentality and you voted for him anyway, thereby impugning your own character in that you have no standards and are no better than a Bill Clinton voter... right?

Trump withdraws demand that funding for the border wall be included in DACA reform...

So, in summation...

1. The Dreamers are likely staying as well as their parents.2. There will be no funding for the wall.

I'm tired of winning.

who really thought the wall was going to be built? Anyone?

His 62 million voters did. Admittedly, though, they believe literally everything he says.

I voted for him. Never expected for a second the wall to get built

You were just hoping he would stick it to immigrant kids? Or install a Supreme Court that would threaten gay rights? Or water down education, the environment, NASA, etc. with unqualified people who don't believe in science? Have white supremacist advisors? Make liberals upset? I'm just curious what exactly you were hoping for if the wall was "just a metaphor" for you.

The Justice Department is preventing Senate investigators from interviewing two top FBI officials who could provide first-hand testimony over the firing of former FBI Director James Comey, the latest sign that Special Counsel Robert Mueller could be investigating the circumstances around the firing, officials tell CNN.

good answer! As I was reading reviews of Hillary's book (of course the NY Times liked it. Go figure ) in which she basically blames her defeat on everyone (must have been a conspiracy), including Bernie Sanders, in none of the reviews does it mention her addressing the collusion she engaged in with DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schutz to rig the primary. It must have just been an oversight

People were voting against Hillary than they were voting for Trump. To make a discussion that Trump was a good candidate either is ridiculous. The email scandal was and is blown out of proportion. Pence has been using a private email account as well. Should he be locked up? There is a case with Indiana that he lied about his emails being on aol for government use. He had to turn them over and finally has after 6 months of requests. It is just the successor governor that is picking through them and can decide which is relevant to state business. I am not going to make the conclusion that Republicans make about Hillary that he was doing something illegal. He may have been. Who knows. I don't think he should be locked up because he used a private email account that is much less secure by the way than the server she was using. The effect of the Comey decision was that she was crucified for having a private email server and was GUILTY of something but no laws. That was the main point that trump was pushing his whole campaign - crooked hillary and wikileaks. If people bothered to weigh where the candidates stood on issues the election would've been very different. For people on the fence Comey pushed them right over.

Hillary Clinton, excuse-maker-in-chief, uses her new book to reference George Orwell's dystopian novel, Nineteen Eighty-Four (1984), and warn against Trump's created realities.

As she puts it in What Happened, "Attempting to define reality is a core feature of authoritarianism ... this is what happens in George Orwell's classic novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, when a torturer holds up four fingers and delivers electric shocks until his prisoner sees five fingers as ordered. The goal is to make you question logic and reason and to sow mistrust towards exactly the people we need to rely on: our leaders, the press, experts who seek to guide public policy based on evidence, ourselves."

Hillary is the one holding up the fingers. She's the embodiment of the authoritarian evils the book warns us against. The "people we need to rely on" a she puts it, are the ones attempting to teach us newspeak, not Trump. Trump is the one warning the people that blind faith in corrupt leaders, a corrupt political party, and their establishment media is never a good idea.

I re-watched the Sanders comment in stop motion (or whatever it's called), like the JFK Zapruder film, frame by frame, and in the immediate aftermath of the question, in the first few seconds, up to 0:07, look at the expression of the "reporter" in the front row middle with the gray suit and light tie (as well as the three to the right). What a bunch of humorless martinets! In response to what was a rather lighthearted question they can't even crack a smile. No, there's no media bias. Right.

Trump withdraws demand that funding for the border wall be included in DACA reform...

So, in summation...

1. The Dreamers are likely staying as well as their parents.2. There will be no funding for the wall.

I'm tired of winning.

who really thought the wall was going to be built? Anyone?

His 62 million voters did. Admittedly, though, they believe literally everything he says.

I voted for him. Never expected for a second the wall to get built

You were just hoping he would stick it to immigrant kids? Or install a Supreme Court that would threaten gay rights? Or water down education, the environment, NASA, etc. with unqualified people who don't believe in science? Have white supremacist advisors? Make liberals upset? I'm just curious what exactly you were hoping for if the wall was "just a metaphor" for you.

Did anyone who voted for Sanders in the primary really think he'd get free college for everyone?

Did anyone who voted for Clinton actually think she'd get Wall Street execs to pay their fair share, after they showered her with millions in speaking fees?

Save the lecture bud, I've been following politics long enough to understand what a campaign promise is and how phony it all is.

Hillary is the one holding up the fingers. She's the embodiment of the authoritarian evils the book warns us against. The "people we need to rely on" a she puts it, are the ones attempting to teach us newspeak, not Trump. Trump is the one warning the people that blind faith in corrupt leaders, a corrupt political party, and their establishment media is never a good idea.

Interesting take Ram. Completely devoid of any critical thought, reason, or introspection but interesting nonetheless. Trump is the one that knowingly lies to the American public on a nearly daily basis, yet Hillary Clinton and the Democrats are the embodiment of authoritarianism because emails? Trump is attempting to close our borders to "undesirables" yet Democrats are the authoritarians because Fast and Furious? Trump convinces his devout followers to ignore anything written about him in the free press, but Democrats are the authoritarians because Obama didn't answer a Fox News question that one time?

Get a clue man. How many broken promises will it take before you realize Trump is lying to everyone including his most devout followers (you).

Trump withdraws demand that funding for the border wall be included in DACA reform...

So, in summation...

1. The Dreamers are likely staying as well as their parents.2. There will be no funding for the wall.

I'm tired of winning.

who really thought the wall was going to be built? Anyone?

His 62 million voters did. Admittedly, though, they believe literally everything he says.

I voted for him. Never expected for a second the wall to get built

You were just hoping he would stick it to immigrant kids? Or install a Supreme Court that would threaten gay rights? Or water down education, the environment, NASA, etc. with unqualified people who don't believe in science? Have white supremacist advisors? Make liberals upset? I'm just curious what exactly you were hoping for if the wall was "just a metaphor" for you.

Did anyone who voted for Sanders in the primary really think he'd get free college for everyone?

Did anyone who voted for Clinton actually think she'd get Wall Street execs to pay their fair share, after they showered her with millions in speaking fees?

Save the lecture bud, I've been following politics long enough to understand what a campaign promise is and how phony it all is.

So what was it about Trump that appealed to you so much that you voted for him. His immigration, environmental or anti science stance? You've been following politics long enough. You should be able to supply a solid answer.

good answer! As I was reading reviews of Hillary's book (of course the NY Times liked it. Go figure ) in which she basically blames her defeat on everyone (must have been a conspiracy), including Bernie Sanders, in none of the reviews does it mention her addressing the collusion she engaged in with DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schutz to rig the primary. It must have just been an oversight

The only thing Clinton's book is doing relentlessly is triggering Trump and his supporters. I fully support that.

Trump withdraws demand that funding for the border wall be included in DACA reform...

So, in summation...

1. The Dreamers are likely staying as well as their parents.2. There will be no funding for the wall.

I'm tired of winning.

who really thought the wall was going to be built? Anyone?

His 62 million voters did. Admittedly, though, they believe literally everything he says.

I voted for him. Never expected for a second the wall to get built

You were just hoping he would stick it to immigrant kids? Or install a Supreme Court that would threaten gay rights? Or water down education, the environment, NASA, etc. with unqualified people who don't believe in science? Have white supremacist advisors? Make liberals upset? I'm just curious what exactly you were hoping for if the wall was "just a metaphor" for you.

Did anyone who voted for Sanders in the primary really think he'd get free college for everyone?

Did anyone who voted for Clinton actually think she'd get Wall Street execs to pay their fair share, after they showered her with millions in speaking fees?

Save the lecture bud, I've been following politics long enough to understand what a campaign promise is and how phony it all is.

I actually think that both Clinton and Sanders would've attempted the free college thing, but I also have little doubt that Republicans would've blocked it at every turn and so it likely wouldn't have happened.

Clinton was beholden to corporate interests, but name a single politician who isn't? Trump certainly is as well.

And you didn't answer the question. What, specifically, did you vote for Trump for if you didn't believe any of his promises? His charming personality?