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Is NOW TV's Sport playback still as as juddery it used to be?

Noticed a great offer on NOW TV and just wondered if the picture is as juddery as it used to be? I had heard it has improved and just wondered if anyone was aware of this?

We have Apple TV and streaming every other format is absolutely fine except NOW TV Sports (Even movies on NOW TV aren't too bad) Watching on an 720 HD TV. As I say I have no problem with other streaming sites

I've always had all the 'fake extra frames' stuff turned on to the max on my tv when watching sports on Now TV. That at least (for me) seems to smooth the picture more and make it watchable without straining my eyes.

There are two issues at play here, one is the frame rate and the effect it has on motion. Whatever the platform Now TV streams at 25p (progressive, 25 complete frames a second). HD (and SD) broadcasts in the UK are 50i (interlaced, 50 half frames or 'fields -a second). On paper you'd think that converting 50 'half frames' into 25 'complete frames' wouldn't cause an issue, but it does and you get the 'internet quality' motion that is most noticeable on sport because of the amount of movement in the picture. Studio entertainment / game shows will look 'wrong' as well. A lot of drama is shot 25p to get the 'cinematic' look (given we show films on TV and TV derived streaming services sped up from 24p to 25p) so streaming them at 25p won't show any difference. No matter how good a TV tries to be a faking the missing frames it won't make up for what isn't there - certainly not without some nasty artefacts.

The number of people watching wouldn't have an effect on the smoothness as such, unless the box was struggling to buffer up enough of the stream.

The only way to solve it is for Now TV to streams to be 50p, with each interlaced field - in effect - appearing twice. That is what BBC iPlayer now streams at 720p50 and looks great- like 'television' rather than 'internet stream'. A number of the US sports streaming apps (NHL, MLB) stream at 60p and look great, if they drop down to 30p you immediately notice the difference on something fast moving like Ice Hockey. Amazon are streaming their sport at 25p and that isn't good for tennis, hopefully they'll sort that before the US Open later this month, and definitely before they get the Premier League games next year.

The other issue is that a number of boxes, including the original Now TV boxes I think, are locked to outputting at 60p and do a very bad job of converting 25p to 60p. So not only have you got the lack of motion, you've got the juddering from a bad frame rate conversion of what was left. Apple TV used to output at a fixed frame rate (that you could choose) but since a software update a few months ago Apple TV 4 and Apple TV 4K can output in a frame rate that matches the content being streamed (assuming the metadata is correct). That said Apple TV was always pretty good at converting 24p to 60p without much effect on the motion. (24p to 60i / 60p is a very common conversion because of the US TV frame rate.) Chromecast has added an option to switch the output to 50p.

The BT Sport stream of the Champions League final on YouTube was in 4K but YouTube restrictions on live streams meant it had to be 30p. As a result it looked quite jueddery, although how bad seemed to depend on the platform you were watching it on. For example YouTube app on my TV was worse than the YouTube app on the Apple TV 4K.

There are two issues at play here, one is the frame rate and the effect it has on motion. Whatever the platform Now TV streams at 25p (progressive, 25 complete frames a second). HD (and SD) broadcasts in the UK are 50i (interlaced, 50 half frames or 'fields -a second). On paper you'd think that converting 50 'half frames' into 25 'complete frames' wouldn't cause an issue, but it does and you get the 'internet quality' motion that is most noticeable on sport because of the amount of movement in the picture. Studio entertainment / game shows will look 'wrong' as well. A lot of drama is shot 25p to get the 'cinematic' look (given we show films on TV and TV derived streaming services sped up from 24p to 25p) so streaming them at 25p won't show any difference. No matter how good a TV tries to be a faking the missing frames it won't make up for what isn't there - certainly not without some nasty artefacts.

The number of people watching wouldn't have an effect on the smoothness as such, unless the box was struggling to buffer up enough of the stream.

The only way to solve it is for Now TV to streams to be 50p, with each interlaced field - in effect - appearing twice. That is what BBC iPlayer now streams at 720p50 and looks great- like 'television' rather than 'internet stream'. A number of the US sports streaming apps (NHL, MLB) stream at 60p and look great, if they drop down to 30p you immediately notice the difference on something fast moving like Ice Hockey. Amazon are streaming their sport at 25p and that isn't good for tennis, hopefully they'll sort that before the US Open later this month, and definitely before they get the Premier League games next year.

The other issue is that a number of boxes, including the original Now TV boxes I think, are locked to outputting at 60p and do a very bad job of converting 25p to 60p. So not only have you got the lack of motion, you've got the juddering from a bad frame rate conversion of what was left. Apple TV used to output at a fixed frame rate (that you could choose) but since a software update a few months ago Apple TV 4 and Apple TV 4K can output in a frame rate that matches the content being streamed (assuming the metadata is correct). That said Apple TV was always pretty good at converting 24p to 60p without much effect on the motion. (24p to 60i / 60p is a very common conversion because of the US TV frame rate.) Chromecast has added an option to switch the output to 50p.

The BT Sport stream of the Champions League final on YouTube was in 4K but YouTube restrictions on live streams meant it had to be 30p. As a result it looked quite jueddery, although how bad seemed to depend on the platform you were watching it on. For example YouTube app on my TV was worse than the YouTube app on the Apple TV 4K.

Very interesting. Thanks. I'm watching on a non 4k Apple TV box but it's even worse on the PS4

The other issue is that a number of boxes, including the original Now TV boxes I think, are locked to outputting at 60p and do a very bad job of converting 25p to 60p. So not only have you got the lack of motion, you've got the juddering from a bad frame rate conversion of what was left. Apple TV used to output at a fixed frame rate (that you could choose) but since a software update a few months ago Apple TV 4 and Apple TV 4K can output in a frame rate that matches the content being streamed (assuming the metadata is correct). That said Apple TV was always pretty good at converting 24p to 60p without much effect on the motion. (24p to 60i / 60p is a very common conversion because of the US TV frame rate.) Chromecast has added an option to switch the output to 50p.

All of the NOW TV branded boxes including the original white box, were given software upgrades to render at 50Hz.

The other issue is that a number of boxes, including the original Now TV boxes I think, are locked to outputting at 60p and do a very bad job of converting 25p to 60p. So not only have you got the lack of motion, you've got the juddering from a bad frame rate conversion of what was left. Apple TV used to output at a fixed frame rate (that you could choose) but since a software update a few months ago Apple TV 4 and Apple TV 4K can output in a frame rate that matches the content being streamed (assuming the metadata is correct). That said Apple TV was always pretty good at converting 24p to 60p without much effect on the motion. (24p to 60i / 60p is a very common conversion because of the US TV frame rate.) Chromecast has added an option to switch the output to 50p.

All of the NOW TV branded boxes including the original white box, were given software upgrades to render at 50Hz.

Would that mean if I bought a NOW TV box I wouldn't have the issue? You wonder if they could do an TV os update for it too?

The other issue is that a number of boxes, including the original Now TV boxes I think, are locked to outputting at 60p and do a very bad job of converting 25p to 60p. So not only have you got the lack of motion, you've got the juddering from a bad frame rate conversion of what was left. Apple TV used to output at a fixed frame rate (that you could choose) but since a software update a few months ago Apple TV 4 and Apple TV 4K can output in a frame rate that matches the content being streamed (assuming the metadata is correct). That said Apple TV was always pretty good at converting 24p to 60p without much effect on the motion. (24p to 60i / 60p is a very common conversion because of the US TV frame rate.) Chromecast has added an option to switch the output to 50p.

All of the NOW TV branded boxes including the original white box, were given software upgrades to render at 50Hz.

Would that mean if I bought a NOW TV box I wouldn't have the issue? You wonder if they could do an TV os update for it too?

The other issue is that a number of boxes, including the original Now TV boxes I think, are locked to outputting at 60p and do a very bad job of converting 25p to 60p. So not only have you got the lack of motion, you've got the juddering from a bad frame rate conversion of what was left. Apple TV used to output at a fixed frame rate (that you could choose) but since a software update a few months ago Apple TV 4 and Apple TV 4K can output in a frame rate that matches the content being streamed (assuming the metadata is correct). That said Apple TV was always pretty good at converting 24p to 60p without much effect on the motion. (24p to 60i / 60p is a very common conversion because of the US TV frame rate.) Chromecast has added an option to switch the output to 50p.

All of the NOW TV branded boxes including the original white box, were given software upgrades to render at 50Hz.

Would that mean if I bought a NOW TV box I wouldn't have the issue? You wonder if they could do an TV os update for it too?

Most of NOW TV's supported tv devices bar a couple of Roku models allow rendering at 50Hz. But as mentioned above, while it'll play a lot more smoother, on fast action, there will still be missing frames thanks to the 25fps output of the streams.

The other issue is that a number of boxes, including the original Now TV boxes I think, are locked to outputting at 60p and do a very bad job of converting 25p to 60p. So not only have you got the lack of motion, you've got the juddering from a bad frame rate conversion of what was left. Apple TV used to output at a fixed frame rate (that you could choose) but since a software update a few months ago Apple TV 4 and Apple TV 4K can output in a frame rate that matches the content being streamed (assuming the metadata is correct). That said Apple TV was always pretty good at converting 24p to 60p without much effect on the motion. (24p to 60i / 60p is a very common conversion because of the US TV frame rate.) Chromecast has added an option to switch the output to 50p.

All of the NOW TV branded boxes including the original white box, were given software upgrades to render at 50Hz.

Would that mean if I bought a NOW TV box I wouldn't have the issue? You wonder if they could do an TV os update for it too?

The other issue is that a number of boxes, including the original Now TV boxes I think, are locked to outputting at 60p and do a very bad job of converting 25p to 60p. So not only have you got the lack of motion, you've got the juddering from a bad frame rate conversion of what was left. Apple TV used to output at a fixed frame rate (that you could choose) but since a software update a few months ago Apple TV 4 and Apple TV 4K can output in a frame rate that matches the content being streamed (assuming the metadata is correct). That said Apple TV was always pretty good at converting 24p to 60p without much effect on the motion. (24p to 60i / 60p is a very common conversion because of the US TV frame rate.) Chromecast has added an option to switch the output to 50p.

All of the NOW TV branded boxes including the original white box, were given software upgrades to render at 50Hz.

Would that mean if I bought a NOW TV box I wouldn't have the issue? You wonder if they could do an TV os update for it too?