The Hogster wrote:I'd rather draft Honey Badger now--a guy who has already felt what it's like to mess up and lose it all--than a guy with character issues who has always gotten away with everything.

One guy has the experience to do better, while the other guy has a false sense of invincibility.

We are the kind of team that should make this pick.

I like Tyrann a lot. I'm a decent LSU fan (parents' alma matter) and have watched a lot of his games.

There is no doubt that Tyrann has got Football Smarts, instinct, nose for the ball, whatever you want to call it that can not be taught and he clearly has a knack for coming up with the plays that know how leads to at absolutely perfect times.

HOWEVER, Tyrann's biggest short coming isn't his height, it's that he is constantly out of position on the most routine of plays, namely covering his man on the outside (e.g. last year's NC game, the arkansas and Georgia (SEC Championship) game in 2011). He is a bit like Hall in that he is just as likely to intercept a ball as he is to be completely out of position and get burned. Contrast that with say a Carlos Rogers who is unlikely to get an interception but very unlikely to be caught out of position and get burned. He, like all corners mind you, is a risk tolerance pick. Like both men I just mentioned he will hit, hard, too. He was protected, (i) A LOT by LSU's front seven, hell just the pressure the front 4 could produce (just look at the draft positions of the players (last year and this year) that he's played behind- Michael Brockers DT (14th), Barkevious Mingo DE (absolute beast), Sam Montgomery DE (Beast) and Bennie Logan DT); (ii) Eric Reid (should be 1st round this year) and Brandon Taylor (73rd), the safeties who played behind him and (iii) Morris Claiborne, the corner on the other side of the field. Its not a slam dunk that he'll be a good cover corner.

I love his attitude on a football field, I agree with you that he should be in a position to have learned his lesson and already begun maturing/growing from it and I'm not overly bothered that a 19-20 year old kid did what he did and paid the price he did. I wouldn't spend more than a 4th or 5th on him, but not before I took a corner and/or safety before him that we LOVE with our 2nd and 3rd pick. His deficiencies can probably be taught/corrected. His natural talents are worth it.

Depending on his combine results (measurables and interviews), maybe, maybe we take him with our 3rd and hope that gamble (and it would be) pays off.

I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I think it's the towel that makes it creepy. LOL. Like, if he was just in trunks, the creep factor would be a lot lower. Thankfully he has a shirt on. LMAOO

Yeah, I think he gets a lot of leeway with this picture because its Robert Griffin. If this were a lot of other players, i think this picture would be a problem.

No, I dont think it'd be a problem. He's taking a picture with some kids at a pool. People unnecesarily make it creepy. Again... It's a picture. At a facility/swimming pool. People are just so overly PC and needlessly sensitive. Heck, the parents were off to the side. No leeway is needed.

The Hogster wrote:I'd rather draft Honey Badger now--a guy who has already felt what it's like to mess up and lose it all--than a guy with character issues who has always gotten away with everything.

One guy has the experience to do better, while the other guy has a false sense of invincibility.

We are the kind of team that should make this pick.

I like Tyrann a lot. I'm a decent LSU fan (parents' alma matter) and have watched a lot of his games.

There is no doubt that Tyrann has got Football Smarts, instinct, nose for the ball, whatever you want to call it that can not be taught and he clearly has a knack for coming up with the plays that know how leads to at absolutely perfect times.

HOWEVER, Tyrann's biggest short coming isn't his height, it's that he is constantly out of position on the most routine of plays, namely covering his man on the outside (e.g. last year's NC game, the arkansas and Georgia (SEC Championship) game in 2011). He is a bit like Hall in that he is just as likely to intercept a ball as he is to be completely out of position and get burned. Contrast that with say a Carlos Rogers who is unlikely to get an interception but very unlikely to be caught out of position and get burned. He, like all corners mind you, is a risk tolerance pick. Like both men I just mentioned he will hit, hard, too. He was protected, (i) A LOT by LSU's front seven, hell just the pressure the front 4 could produce (just look at the draft positions of the players (last year and this year) that he's played behind- Michael Brockers DT (14th), Barkevious Mingo DE (absolute beast), Sam Montgomery DE (Beast) and Bennie Logan DT); (ii) Eric Reid (should be 1st round this year) and Brandon Taylor (73rd), the safeties who played behind him and (iii) Morris Claiborne, the corner on the other side of the field. Its not a slam dunk that he'll be a good cover corner.

I love his attitude on a football field, I agree with you that he should be in a position to have learned his lesson and already begun maturing/growing from it and I'm not overly bothered that a 19-20 year old kid did what he did and paid the price he did. I wouldn't spend more than a 4th or 5th on him, but not before I took a corner and/or safety before him that we LOVE with our 2nd and 3rd pick. His deficiencies can probably be taught/corrected. His natural talents are worth it.

Depending on his combine results (measurables and interviews), maybe, maybe we take him with our 3rd and hope that gamble (and it would be) pays off.

+1

He'll instantly be a premier return man. I think he has that ability to start off as a Nickle corner who can blitz & cover and develop into a star corner.

This is what worries me about having him on this team. We aren't a pass-rush powerhouse like the Giants. We're one injury away from being crippled in that department. I'm not saying to not draft him on the potential of injury elsewhere on defense. But, he will be targeted with a pass rush. And potentially become a liability without a pass rush. He's an interesting player.

This is what worries me about having him on this team. We aren't a pass-rush powerhouse like the Giants. We're one injury away from being crippled in that department. I'm not saying to not draft him on the potential of injury elsewhere on defense. But, he will be targeted with a pass rush. And potentially become a liability without a pass rush. He's an interesting player.

This is also my chief rocker concern about him. That D line is/was amazing at LSU. They literally single handedly won/wiin 25-35% of that teams' games.

Its funny, the same things about Hall that make me nervous as a corner, but very secure as a safety, apply to Tyrann. I think he'd be a good free safety, perhaps better than a corner.

I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

The plays he makes on the ball have very little to do with pass rush. His returns, caused fumbles are all him. Maybe some of his blitzes don't get there if teams didn't have to focus on the D Line, but let's be real here. This guy makes plays.

The most legitimate criticism of him is his footwork. The scouts who contribute to real evaluations think that he gets by on pure athletcism and instincts in college, but that he'll need to work on his feet if he wants to matchup against NFL wide receivers. That's something that will take coaching and time.

There are a lot of NFL corners who have great technique, but lack the intangible quickness, instinct, anticipation, and playmaking ability that Tyran Mathieu has. As Darrell Green said in an interview--our own Josh Wilson is a corner who is technically sound but lacks the intangibles that a guy like Mathieu has. Both types of players are valuable in the league. And, if Mathieu can sharpen his technique, he will be among the best at his position. There aren't guys that have it all like Revis and Bailey. But, there are far fewer guys with the uncoachable skills that guys like Mathieu has.

The Hogster wrote:The plays he makes on the ball have very little to do with pass rush. His returns, caused fumbles are all him. Maybe some of his blitzes don't get there if teams didn't have to focus on the D Line, but let's be real here. This guy makes plays.

No, the pass rush has nothing to do with his hands, vision, or ability to break on the ball. However, when he's out of position, beaten or just having a rough outting, that pass rush is gonna bail him out.
As much grief as our corners get, they played well without a consistent pass rush this season. I feel as though that's not really taken into consideration. If we weren't blitzing the QB's had ALLLLLL DAYYYYY LONNNGG.

The Hogster wrote:The plays he makes on the ball have very little to do with pass rush. His returns, caused fumbles are all him. Maybe some of his blitzes don't get there if teams didn't have to focus on the D Line, but let's be real here. This guy makes plays.

No, the pass rush has nothing to do with his hands, vision, or ability to break on the ball. However, when he's out of position, beaten or just having a rough outting, that pass rush is gonna bail him out. As much grief as our corners get, they played well without a consistent pass rush this season. I feel as though that's not really taken into consideration. If we weren't blitzing the QB's had ALLLLLL DAYYYYY LONNNGG.

I'm not disagreeing that pass rush is a secondary's best friend. Coverage and Rush work hand in hand. But, I'm saying that I don't think you can reproduce what Mathieu can do despite LSU's NFL-like Defensive Line.

I think Mathieu's game translates to the NFL well. He can produce right away in situations (nickle) and Special Teams while he hones his technique going up against guys like Garcon & Moss in practice.

I wouldn't spend a 1st or 2nd on him given his situation. But, I'd spend a 3rd or 4th on him. We pick fairly late in each round.

^^ that's the thing ... this player MAY be there towards the end of the 3rd round ..

I think that the intangibles mean he will be at worst a third round pick - I seriously doubt he falls to the 4th round

until Dan Snyder lets NFL people make ALL the decisions on who coaches & plays, we will be a mediocre franchise each season starts with high hopes & expectations - & ends with us knowing we should have done better with who we have

The Hogster wrote:I'm not disagreeing that pass rush is a secondary's best friend. Coverage and Rush work hand in hand. But, I'm saying that I don't think you can reproduce what Mathieu can do despite LSU's NFL-like Defensive Line.

I think Mathieu's game translates to the NFL well. He can produce right away in situations (nickle) and Special Teams while he hones his technique going up against guys like Garcon & Moss in practice.

I wouldn't spend a 1st or 2nd on him given his situation. But, I'd spend a 3rd or 4th on him. We pick fairly late in each round.

I agree. It's just a concern of mine considering his projected short-comings. I'd take him with the 3rd pick. He'd immediately be penciled in at PR/KR.