Fergie loses sight of financial reality… and title

There has been a certain sense of inevitability about Manchester City’s rise over the past four years. After all, while football has its own financial peculiarities, a market is a market is a market. Money talks in football just as in any other industry, and City’s money is singing from the rooftops this season. On the brink of a first domestic title in 44 years, City can thank Abu Dhabi’s sovereign wealth for the club’s recent success.

It was odd though that Sir Alex Ferguson should choose the week in which City effectively secured a first title since 1968 to complain about the Blues’ spending. Here, a manager who has spent quite literally hundreds of millions in the market over the years, can hardly have cause to complain.

Moreover, the Scot’s complaint would have far more legitimacy – any legitimacy some might add – had the 70-year-old not spent the past seven years supporting a Glazer regime that has sucked more than £500 million out of Manchester United in debt related costs.

No wonder there has been renewed talk by supporters of the Glazers’ affect on United’s competitiveness in the week since City disposed of Ferguson’s side. The sight of Sir Alex’ team meekly surrendering the Premier League title at Eastlands, without managing a single shot on target, while Ferguson left some of his most effective players on the sidelines, was genuinely bewildering.

In truth United played scared; Ferguson running for the sanctuary of a scoreless draw that never appeared. United’s manager, much like the fans, is fearful not only of City’s superiority on the pitch, but seemingly the looming change in hegemony – as Roberto Mancini put it so eloquently this week – in Manchester and England.

Yet, Ferguson is unable to move on from the now tiresomely clichéd excuse that there is no value in the market. Only the foolish now buy into that line given the dozens of examples of ‘value’, let alone bone fide quality, which United has missed over the past six years.

“It’s been an ­insane transfer market for a long time and I think clubs like City create that,” said Ferguson.

“They can buy all the players and put a marker on all the ­players and that makes it ­difficult for clubs then to be ­reasonable. There’s no chance of that calming down and I don’t see how the financial fair play can work. No-one can match City’s financial power – ­no-one.

“It’s not just about the top line transfer fees, it’s about the amount of money clubs can offer in wages. Players are being offered stupid money, the type of sums that are hard to turn down. We can make a player a very good offer, but unless he wants to come to United for football reasons he is not going to say no to stupid money from somewhere else.

“We have to accept that, so we do it a different way. We’ll try to look at young ­players with the potential to develop in the club, which we’re good at, so we’ll stay with that.”

While City’s wealth will buy the club trophies, closer to home Ferguson has continued to deny that the Glazer family’s tight-fisted budget has made any impact on United’s competitiveness. This despite the family allowing Ferguson to spend less than half of the net amount per season invested in the six years prior to the 2005 Glazer takeover.

What’s more, the Glazers regime has impacted United’s budget not against a backdrop of Ferguson’s protest, but with his vocal support. United’s squad quality has eroded, while Ferguson’s ability to recover from transfer market misses.

Yet, the excuses come thick from those proffering an alternate line. United’s loss to Wigan Athletic last month, and the disastrous late capitulation against Everton, is little more than a ‘temporary changing of the guard’; a short-term ‘loss of form’ at the worst possibly time. Blame the players, blame the referee, blame injuries. Blame anybody bar manager and his paymasters.

The wider context of United’s cataclysmic European campaigns is relevant though, especially when taken together with the Reds’ performances against Manchester’s other team. When viewed in the prism of matches against City this season, or those with Europe’s second-tier clubs, United’s regression is stark. This is true despite the 86 Premier League points garnered in a relatively poor quality league.

Defeat to City has a way of clarifying the collective consciousness though. And while there is nothing United, Ferguson, or the supporters can do about another club’s financial model, the cumulative effect of £7.5 million net spent per season under the Glazer regime, while rival clubs pump investment into the team, could do little but reduce the club’s competitiveness.

It is a truism that not only City, but Tottenham Hotspur, Liverpool, Sunderland, Aston Villa and even Stoke City have each spent more, net, than United since 2005.

And in the week that Cristiano Ronaldo secured the La Liga title, United supporters were given a taste of what has been lost – and not replaced – during the Glazers’ tenure. The Real Madrid forward has scored 45 goals in 37 La Liga games this season. Interesting, then, that Ferguson should believe Ronaldo still represents ‘value’ at £80, £160 or even £800 million.

“You can only assess value on success,” added Ferguson, who sold Ronaldo to Madrid in summer 2009.

“Like Real Madrid with ­Ronaldo. They’ll be saying ‘we’d have paid £160m for him with all he’s done’. At more than a goal a game he’s been a fantastic buy for them. At the time we thought £80m was not bad. Now I’m saying to myself it should have been a lot more. He’s been such a fantastic buy for them, maybe we should have asked for £800m.”

United didn’t genuinely replace Ronaldo, although there was once much talk of the ‘Ronaldo money’ being available for Ferguson to spend. Yet, mindful of working under the PLC regime that required layers of sign-off on every deal, Ferguson now enjoys working with a single paymaster, whatever the budget. His aggressive support for the American family may never fully be explained.

Increasingly, Ferguson has insisted, with no concern for historically accuracy, that United does not spend large sums on players, while promoting ‘youth’ as a method of bucking a market that offers no value. It’s hogwash of course, as those who completed the analysis presented in Soccernomics and Pay as you Play will attest. Money spent on transfers and wages counts for much: between 72 per cent and 89 per cent of success, in fact.

Record transfer signings, of one form or another, Roy Keane, Paul Ince, Gary Pallister, Rio Ferdinand, juan Veron, Dimitar Berbatov and Wayne Rooney might disagree too. Fergie has always spent money – some good, some bad. According to some he offers the best ‘value’ of any manager around. Who could disagree?

Which brings us back, not only to the Glazers parsimony over the past six years, but Abu Dhabi’s dizzying ability to outspend all others. ‘Tick tock’ mocked City’s supporters over recent years, suggesting that success was only a matter of time. Indeed, bar Queens Park Rangers pulling off a miraculous result at Eastlands in a week, United’s hegemony will have been broken.

Worse, those supporters hoping for a response by United in the market will be disappointed at early indicators of Ferguson’s likely transfer strategy this summer. While City may spend “insane” money, United will invest in youth. It may be some time before City’s superiority is matched.

Alf – had loads on Twitter last night. Apparently I’m spoilt and not a “true fan” (this mainly comes from plastic idiots) because I point out the inevitable consequences of City spending big while United reduces the budget. People think United can miraculously buck the market. The arrogance of believing somehow we’re better than everybody else at doing that.

The time’s up to replace Ferguson due to his blindness, lack of direction and purpose for the club, by Pep Guardiola or Murino immediately. I’m convinced that his time is overdue and should be replaced without precondition.Thank him for the past but has no vision for the club’s future. Please note: his decisions on team selection for wigan and manchester games are appalling without talking about champions league and european league exits. Few players have left the team over his bully attitude (ref: Beckham, Keane…). Find an honorific post within the club for his past achievements and get rid of him now before he inflicts more damages to the team. He became too arrogant and seems to be invulnerable.
Concerned fan in Guelph.ca

This is a great article. I have been saying these things over and over but you all think I’m stupid. I coach football, I know what I’m talking about. SAF made some very bad team selections, team formations and tactics at crucial times this season. A big mistake that he is making is that he refuses to buy players over 26 years old. Therefore, we are left with a team of inexperienced youngsters and way over-aged players and he expects to win the Champions league. Man.City, Chelsea, Tottenham, Real Madrid buy experienced and proven players, thats why they do so well. SAF failed to motivate his players, just look at the game against Swansea. In the second half we just gave up when we should have been looking for three or four more goals. As I see it, QPR will get the one point they need to stay up at Man.City but we are not going to win at Sunderland. SAF will get no favours from the mistakes he has made this season.

Sir Alex has presided over 11 Premiership titles,but you being a coach qualify your comments by saying you are a coach.
Think about it………City 89 points Man Utd also 89 points,City have a team of expensive players on big wages,United relied on some young and inexperienced players.

I remember Fergy being slagged off for playing Beckham Giggs Scholes,top pundits at the time said you will never win anything with kids.Treble, double, European cups and several league titles followed.

You greedy little twit! Ferguson has delivered so many damn trophies it’s almost a little embarrassing. At what point will fans like you accept that maybe, just maybe, there are other teams in this league and even the great Barcelona didn’t win LaLiga this season nor did Bayern , oops that two years in a row and AC Milan was replaced by Juventus. Dam Man, this is just life, grow up and take your thumb out of your mouth. Oh my, Liverpool pay 35M for Carrol, 20M on Henderson etc etc yet they are 34 points back–YES 34 points back of United. City have spent over 400M in the past few years and they will likely win the EPL but they have the same amount of points as United. This team had to endure the loss of the best defender in the EPL and their captain Vidic; they lose their entire midfield for the vast majority of the season and on and on and on.Shut Up and get on board !!

Mate I cannot agree more! To hear a “supporter” say “I’m done” shows what shallow,clueless people claim to support our club.I for one, want no one that will not show allegiance when it matters.I hate the vermin leeches that own us but I would never allow that to colour my love of our club.To be in the position we are is nothing short of a miracle.All you fair weather “fans” expect to win everything.We are not entitled to anything.Imagine “fans” like this, beside you on a battle field.The first sign of trouble and you would be left standing alone.Those with a backbone stay staunch while most run.The flood gates have already opened.

Richard – keep the insults out of it. This isn’t greed, this is an observation of financial reality. City can spend lots, while United spend less. The erosion in relative competitiveness is inevitable. 89% inevitable if you want to put a number on it. And it’s not a critique of Ferguson either, other that he has complained only about City’s spending. There’s more than one dynamic going on here and he is supporting a regime that quite inevitably will lead to an erosion of United’s ability to compete.

Oh Richard, go see the Wizard and get yourself a brain! Let’s console ourselves and compare ourselves to Liverpool who have squandered so much on useless players! No: we need to compare ourselves to City and to Real and Barcelona and maybe even the revitalized Chelsea that stand one match away from winning the Champions League.

City may have bought some iffy players, but they bought two greats in Aguero and Toure (imagine if we had spent the Ronaldo money on these guys: Toure holding the midfield and Aguero and Rooney playing off each other). We wnt to the creche and the old age home to fix our defence and midfield.

Now you have heard the phrase the `writing is on the wall’ — but how big does that writing have to be for your to read it.

Fergie was a great manager –but age has taken its toll and they must wheen him away now before we start losing 6-1 at home to the likes of Fulham. He sides with the Glazers because he is dishonest and self-serving– despite what he may proclaim about his Socialist roots and his concern for the beautiful game. On the score of the beautiful game– when last did United play it with flair and panache and look like worldbeaters? Fergie seems scared of playing with flair — psychologically it is as if he fears being `exposed’ — notice how quick he is, as Ed points out to blame everyone but himself for the calamity of throwing away a won (not just winning) position to City — of all teams. We are starting to pay a terrible price for being a leading football `brand’ — we need to get back to our roots again.

how can you blame sir alex for his comments, man city are backed by billionaires, we aren’t, this is the most pessimistic opinion around and you just never doubt sir alex (he has won 19 titles!!). we have been unlucky this season with fletcher, vidic missing a big part of the season, and i think with some reinforcements next year will be much better

I just have one question on this issue: We so often hear of managers whinging and whining about money (that there’s not enough of it to spend). So why doesn’t Fergie turn around and go demanding the Glazers for cash? Surely he has enough pull within the club to get what he wants. What is in it for him to see his team get outclassed on the field? Or is it just a Wenger/Arsenal-type of situation wherein the manager is too close-minded (or ultimately too confident of his own abilities) to spend even when there is money to spend? Hope someone clears this up for me. Thanks.

@ richard 3 41 am.Some excellant points raised there . My thoughts added are , we have lost the EPL before and i expect we will lose it again some time . We have no automatic right to it . Our response as always is the key .City have bought this title ! United have bought big in the past and will again , the point is it was our money . We were not bank rolled, our business model and club vision saw to it . Im no Glazers fan but we have won through under them .No doubt under investment is an issue but none of us know the truth of it . I believe this will re generate our efforts to fill the obvious voids in the side . Yes i believe in SAF and the club as a whole to come through this .Team Mansour have set a challenge , lets judge it on our answer next season !

SAF has performed miracles with this squad and he is likely the main reason we are where we are in the table. But our European form has been shocking and we were dumped out early from all the cups, as well as suffering a couple of embarrassing results this season at Old Trafford. Who knows where we’d be right now in the table if Arsenal, Chelsea and maybe even Pool had good seasons. No, we did OK this season given the circumstances but for how long can this continue? Do we play Scholes and Giggs until they’re 50 just because there is supposedly no value in the market?

SAF has done amazing things for this club and has got us through the last few seasons. But he has to take the blame as well for some poor decisions with formation and tactics. Playing players out of position – Phil Jones being the obvious choice – and certain squad choices have been baffling. Michael Owen’s continued stay and freezing Berbatov out of the first team are equally puzzling. It looks like DDG was a good transfer after a bit of a wait but I think the 30+ million spent on AY and JOnes could have been beeter utilised. Of course, his relaince on our current central MF is the most baffling of all and it;s been obvious to all supporters that we’ve needed to add quality for a few seasons now.

Anyways, I’m not disappointed that we’ll finish 2nd to City but disappointed that City handed us the title and we threw it away. What past United sides would have done the same?

A local red who first went to the Cliff for A and B team matches with his grandad in the early 60s, I said ‘no mas’ in 2005 and swore to never put a penny in the Glazer pockets. Pity this was not done on masse to force the Gimps to sell. Too late now I fear, but the more who boycott without being replaced, the sooner the leaches will be driven out.

ED-again you slag off the manager whose name to lesser people like you is Sir Alex Ferguson.If you’re to lazy to write this out more than once then try SAF.If the reason is your own agenda aginst him then have the guts to say so and tell us all exactly how he should have delt with the usa leeches.Give us your wisdom on exactly the steps required since the takeover to carry this club foward to more glory.Tell us what you a nobody, would have done to stand up to the filth and at the same time keep the abu scum from the door.Or maybe you have joined those abu pencil pushers.Always we see pointless individuals that achieve nothing for themselves, offer worthless comments. So easy to slag off the manager time and again when the facts are not public knowledge.His hands may be tied? What do you expect him to say about the issues? Maybe he should have hung out all the dirty washing in public so people like you could find the truth.Then you might have a right to an opinion about the greatest manager this club will ever have.Get off his back!

Try dent – how tiresome. I’m not ‘slaging off’ the manager. This is an observation. Did Ferguson complain if he believed the PLC board didn’t give him enough money? Yes – very loudly. Does he complain that the Glazers have sucked £500m out of the club? No, not at all. In fact he tells fans who don’t like it to “fuck off and support Chelsea”.

Reading the sometimes justified rants of the last 6 months, one question keeps coming up in my mind and each time I am comfortable with my answer.
Q: Would you be truely satisfied if Utd went out and purchased 8 or 9 mercenaries, payed them double to what they should and in the process destroy any romantic feeling towards the game we love?
My answer would be …..NO!
Yes, we despise what the Glaziers are doing to this club we love but in this case it’s ‘better the devil you know’ until we can realistically do something about it (keep up the good work MUST). The Glaziers are clearly an intelligent family and stay in the background and as true business people they will know in order to protect their business, they will need to invest at the right time and in Fergies comments it’s clear that time has come. But, this needs to be done the right way……the Utd way.
They have to have the right character and not be mainly motivate by money. They have to fit they way we aspire to play and not slow they game down to an Italian pace. And for me, most of all they have to complement and appreciate the home grown players that are truely the heart of this club and the thing I enjoy more than any quality mercenary as these are the players who win you the game at rainy cold away day fixtures and make you feel proud to be a Utd fan. Having written this,I do think we need to buy one big name as one or two mercenaries can be tolerated (we already have one 😉 and maybe we need to make a marker by bringing Hazzard in ahead of City as he seems to be class and a natural replacement for Giggs.
And so to my point….do the City fans truely feel proud? Do the other football fans truely respect what City have done? I think when you peel back the English media driven desire to have Utd overcome….the answer will be No.
I’m proud of they way Utd do things and looking at the way the younger players played for decent periods this season things are far from doom and wouldn’t it be wonderfully ironic if one of the best examples of our world class youth system trips City up just as they start to celebrate……come on Sparky!,,,

French Mickey- why are the only two options on your table the Glazers model, or the mercenaries model? It’s clearly the case that another path can be made. You don’t want United to be competitive? Odd because football has been a market since before the dawn of professionalism.

Ed-how tiresome it is to see you trying to have an each way bet! At least have the guts to state your feelings without hiding behind the word”observation”.It is clear for all to see youur underlying attitude.You call what you write “journalistic licence”.You have not answered any of the issues I raised except the easy reply-attack the manager again. Tell us all what you would have done to manage this club in his place!Tell us your marvalous vision of the past 6+ years.I could repeat your quote you attribute to Sir Alex-“If YOU don’t like it fuck off”!

Trident – this coming from a fan in Australia. I trust you’ve been to hundreds of games though, because there’s no way you’d be telling me to “fuck off” without having put in the time yourself. Why is it glazer apologists always resort to personal insults?

I’ve been very clear on this site about the Glazers over the years. Try reading. This article was about money. It’s clearly too much for you to grasp though.

My plan – deleverage, run club on its own two feet as an independent organisation, get fans on the board to ensure it never happens again. All three very possible.

I think the thing that distorts people’s view is our league position. League position wise we have greatly over achieved this season. Without fergie, with the current squad, we’d have finished about 4th-6th. I predict a couple of cheap players will be bought. When really we need a left winger, a left back and two central midfielders at least. Scholes has been superb this season, but struggled to play 90 mins. If giggs him left at least it would force some more recruits this summer.

All is not lost even though the Glazers have crippled the club with their debts. But this could be the biggest summer for a long time and the transfers made (as well as players leaving) could be the most important in a long time. It’s getting tougher and tougher to win the EPL title and just getting a CL spot isn’t a foregone conclusion anymore. We can’t compete with City – it’s a fact – but we can still bring in quality players and make the right transfers at the right time…and this summer is the right time.

Some people have blasted Ed for just stating the obvious. Put away the rose-coloured glasses. We all love and support this great club and we all want the best for United. SAF has done amazing things over the years and it’s been a great ride, but we all worry about the future. Perhaps we have been spoiled over the years and have been fortunate in the last few seasons, but we can’t ride our luck forever and we can’t compete with our current central MFs.

Sure, you can hide under the covers, close your eyes and keep telling yourself that everything will be alright and United will always be there. Instead, I’d prefer to look at reality and the fact that if we don’t do something to shake up this squad, we’re in deep. deep trouble.

My main problem with your stance is how / why should Fergie speak out? When has publicly slating and criticising one’s paymasters ever worked out? I’m sure he’d rather have the money to spend, who wouldn’t?

There have been some funnies, £8m on Bebe (WTF!!!), £30m Berbs (awesome but was never going to fit in with our traditional style), new contract for Owen? Still linked with wingers Gaitan from Benfica.

Pains me to say it but the team / club are at or approaching a major crossroads. Serious investment / new blood is needed to replace older members of the squad:
– GK, ok here DDG looks great with decent backup

– RB, love Rafa but needs refinement and decent competition

– LB, Paddy hasn’t been at his best for a while, Fabio out on loan next season, no options!

DEF – the future looks good Evans, Smalling and Jones but the still only look good when playing with Rio or Vidic who are ageing, injury prone and losing pace

LW / RW – Young, Nani and Valencia are a good group, few with better options

MID – crying shame when you think back to legends we’ve had here! All this complaining about Monday, what other options did we have? Giggs has been poor this season very erratic with his passing. Scholes, great but looked leggy in the last couple of games. Carrick the pick of our midfield but seems to be scared of shooting and getting on a bit but should be kept. Park, will leave in the summer not getting enough games. Youngsters??? Pogba, is he staying? Cleverly, how good is he, a hell of a lot is expected of him. A few decent ones in reserves but too young and raw.

I agree that we don’ t really need another out and out left winger, but Giggs’s role for the last 10 years has been varied.

What we do need is someone who can make things happen in a game and there are two types for me….The grab it by the balls type….Keane, and the world class creator/ finisher…..Rooney.
Right now we need both. Both can be bought which has proven to be the case in the past.
Hazzard fits in the 2nd category ( I’m based in France so I get to see him a bit) and he can play across the mid and the 2nd striker.

Ed, I sincerely am trying to point to ‘another way’. That way is called ‘correct investment’ and I believe that this may happen over the summer.

We have to be realistic and pragmatic, we can’t win it every year so at least when we do win, we try to do it the right way with what options are available to us.

Its interesting to look at the increase in the amount we have spent over the last two years, what will be more interesting to see is how much is spent this summer. From there on we will be able to better judge more accurately just how much are the Glazers crippling us financially. It is clear that the average has decreased significantly however I dont think this is the most suited figure to judge.
Totally agree with you on how ridiculous it is for SAF to be so vocal in his support for the Glazzers it doesnt make any sense to me.
Honestly thought i think it goes down directly to SAF this season. I love and respect the guy for all he has done for the club however his spending policy in addition to his flawed formations/tactics are basically what cost us the season this year. And yes I do recognize that we are likely to end the league on level points however no one remembers second place and we as fans are entitled to be critical towards our club.

Ed said:
Alf – had loads on Twitter last night. Apparently I’m spoilt and not a “true fan” (this mainly comes from plastic idiots) because I point out the inevitable consequences of City spending big while United reduces the budget. People think United can miraculously buck the market. The arrogance of believing somehow we’re better than everybody else at doing that.

Aye… the one thing you can count on from the blind ignorant… they’re consistent.

Trydent… “To hear a “supporter” say “I’m done” shows what shallow,clueless people claim to support our club.I for one, want no one that will not show allegiance when it matters.”

Save your self righteous indignation for someone who gives a shit what you think… but just to be clear… I could never support another club… my statement of being “done”… regards the game itself… I’ve had enough of the whole sorry mess that is modern football… why should I waste my time and passion supporting a game that offers me less, and less entertainment value each season… but asks me for more and more patience, while the proceeds are leeched off by people with no emotional attachment to the club what so ever… and defended by the man, I once considered the keeper of the flame… if he’s got no respect for my support… then what’s in it for me?

Not a fuckin thing… it’s not enjoyable anymore… just an exercise in frustration.

I’m with Alf and Ed on all this. From the Italian scandals the buy outs, the crazy money, the disproportionate TV rights in La Liga, all seater stadiums, semi-finals at Wembley etc are all issues that create a gulf between the fan/community and the club. United, city, Chelsea and Liverpool as clubs have no tangible relationship with the fan, the region, the country anymore.

You arguably have as much a relationship with the next Hollywood blockbuster and its director. A massive disconnect has been created and the soul of football is suffering. I appreciate footballs relationship with business has been around since the 19th century but if I have to explain the difference between James W Gibson and city’s Saudi’s then you’re not worth talking too.

I can’t blame SAF for his position on the Glazers as his options are manage the situation in the best interests of the club or openly criticise the Glazers and be sacked/asked to leave. He wouldn’t throw away all those years of work.

The world has a significant amount of very rich people more so than the Saudi’s. So it’s only a matter of time before another on the brink of financial disaster club (city) are purchased and turned into the richest club in the world. Then what for city and everyone else?

I don’t know who we will sign if we sign anyone in the summer. But we only have two realistic ways out of the Glazer predicament.

1. Hope the Glazer model becomes self-sufficent and they stay in control

why cant we have owners who dont meddle with the club and dont bleed the club dry. that fucking IPO better come fasts. the fact is fergie fears the axe. if fergie were to turn into a glazer enemy, he knows they wouldnt waste time in pulling the trigger. just ask the buck fans

1. I said way back that City would win the PL (but then I had a dream in which it happened and am as clairvoyant as they come). You all said they would get the wobbles, lose their botle etc etc. What happened is, they found what we never did — a winning combo up front (Agueor and Tevez playing slightly behind him) and a sold midfield platform to feed and support them
2.I said that if City won the PL there would be earthquakes, tsunamis, extinction level events of every shape and kind at OT — leading perhaps to a fan revolution. Already we can see signs of something stirring.
3. In history complacency is the great enemy of Empires. How many catastrophic defeats were caused by underestimating the enemy or rival. And speaking of complacency (the godchild of arrogance) it seems that Fergie’s years of success have addled him (you can see the next Hitler Downfall spoof on YOUTube on the defeat to City coming) : he blames the players for the critical defeat at the Etihad when the whole Universe knows and could see that this team would not beat City and might have to battle for even a draw.
4. Fergie is prepared to win ugly and dirty: but we lose to a team that wants to win looking strong, forceful and fluid. He is no longer true to his vision and philosophy and in blaming others is showing himself to be a prety bad leader (check any books on leadership O ye morons who think otherwise)
5. If we as fans are going to split into two opposing factions, the `fairweather’ (football purists) and the `Fergie morons’ (the club loyalists) then things are going to get very testy. As a loyalist, let me tell you, that if Fergie were to have rocked up at my front door ten, twenty years ago — I would have fallen down and kissed his feet. If he came today, I would take one look at him, and say “Ferguson, what the f$$$ are you doing here, you know what the f$$$ you can do with your no value, nosiy neighbours and hairdryer treatment..”

“It is a truism that not only City, but Tottenham Hotspur, Liverpool, Sunderland, Aston Villa and even Stoke City have each spent more, net, than United since 2005.”
This may be true, but what have the these teams won?? In fact, what progress have they made? City aside, these teams would seem to back Fergie’s argument that there’s no value in the market.

Ed, while I wholly accept everything you say about the suffering the Glazers are inflicting upon United, I’m not sure what you want Fergie to do about it?

Speak out? Look what happened when he collided with John Magnier. I don’t think Fergie or Gill making a stand against the Glazers will help the club in any way. It would probably end up with Fergie leaving, and a new manager coming in who would be powerless to criticise the Glazers…..hence we would most likely be in a worse off position.

Why would Fergie come out and say we have no money? Will that help attract players to United? Will it help attract sponsors? No, I think it would have the opposite affect. Ok, it would be nice for us supporters to know the truth. But if this meant the possibility of jeopardising our already weakened position in the transfer market, then personally I’d rather hear Fergie tow the party line.

On Fergie telling us there is no value in the market – no I don’t believe him. But surely this is just a poker face for the rest of the market? Surely he’s just warning clubs that we will not be held to ransom……in reality because we have no money, not because there is no value in the market…..but either way, United will be much more frugal in their transfer dealings. It’s his opening bid in all forthcoming transfer dealings if you will. Again, I understand where he’s coming from.

Should he sit on the fence and neither back nor criticise the Glazers? Well, no, I don’t think he can. He either backs the Glazers, or he doesn’t. And he thinks it best to back them. Like we’ve seen with managers in the past: if the fans were calling for the manager’s head, he’d expect the board to either back him or sack him….there’s no middle ground.

Financially, tt’s an unsavoury position we’re in, but I just don’t know what you expect Fergie to do about it?

nothing, he can do absolutely nothing. thats why we are calling for pple to liik at the top. if another manager took this lot he would finish 20 points behind what we did. even mourinho would refuse to work with this lot

There are some who claim that, at least they prefer our shit excuse for owners, over the corrupt, immoral wealth of the oil barons… and to a degree I go along with that… having the Glazers as owners is embarrassing… but I would feel dirty and ashamed at being owned by Abramovic or the 40 Thieves of Etihad…

Having said that… at least Abramovic, and his ilk are fuckin football fans… Abramovic loves his football, and seldom misses a game.

Our lot actually had to be told that we didn’t like being called a “soccer franchise”… The Glazers couldn’t give a monkeys about United beyond the accounts…

The oil barons may be horrid fuckers… but our lot have turned us into a laughing stock.

“It is a truism that not only City, but Tottenham Hotspur, Liverpool, Sunderland, Aston Villa and even Stoke City have each spent more, net, than United since 2005.”
This may be true, but what have the these teams won?? In fact, what progress have they made? City aside, these teams would seem to back Fergie’s argument that there’s no value in the market.

Ed, while I wholly accept everything you say about the suffering the Glazers are inflicting upon United, I’m not sure what you want Fergie to do about it?

Speak out? Look what happened when he collided with John Magnier. I don’t think Fergie or Gill making a stand against the Glazers will help the club in any way. It would probably end up with Fergie leaving, and a new manager coming in who would be powerless to criticise the Glazers…..hence we would most likely be in a worse off position.

Why would Fergie come out and say we have no money? Will that help attract players to United? Will it help attract sponsors? No, I think it would have the opposite affect. Ok, it would be nice for us supporters to know the truth. But if this meant the possibility of jeopardising our already weakened position in the transfer market, then personally I’d rather hear Fergie tow the party line.

On Fergie telling us there is no value in the market – no I don’t believe him. But surely this is just a poker face for the rest of the market? Surely he’s just warning clubs that we will not be held to ransom……in reality because we have no money, not because there is no value in the market…..but either way, United will be much more frugal in their transfer dealings. It’s his opening bid in all forthcoming transfer dealings if you will. Again, I understand where he’s coming from.

Should he sit on the fence and neither back nor criticise the Glazers? Well, no, I don’t think he can. He either backs the Glazers, or he doesn’t. And he thinks it best to back them. Like we’ve seen with managers in the past: if the fans were calling for the manager’s head, he’d expect the board to either back him or sack him….there’s no middle ground.

Financially, tt’s an unsavoury position we’re in, but I just don’t know what you expect Fergie to do about it?

Yeah, we’ve all heard that argument as well… there’s nothing Ferguson can do about it.

Bollocks!

I honestly believe that had Ferguson thrown his voice behind the anti Glazer movement in the first place, we might have stopped them taking over… but even if it cost him his job… he would at least have gone down fighting the good fight… retaining his status as the fans representative… instead of tarnishing his legend, becoming the Glazers lackey.

You unsurprisingly choose to leave out the option of ‘Ferguson speaks out, gets fired, the Glazers takeover anyway and the club declines much sooner’. In other words exactly what has happened now except we wouldn’t have won any trophies in the last 5 years.
Brilliant idea.

I would rather have a manager who is happy to tarnish his own name for the benefit of the club than someone who cares more about his own ego. It’s that kind of idealistic bullshit that you and others find great enjoyment in criticising on these same boards when people say ‘believe in SAF’.

@ Alf: While you are correct in that Fergie could have done taken a stand, my point was, in my opinion, there’s nothing Fergie could have done without serious implications for the club.
The Glazers took control of United in a hostile takeover – United were a PLC, and hostile takeovers do happen. Fergie was powerless, no matter what his opinion was.
I believe if Fergie had taken a stand against the Glazers, he probably would have been forced out of the club after the Yanks seized control anyway. Then we’d most likely be in a much worse position than we are now.

So realistically, and in the best interest of the club, I don’t think Fergie could have done anything to stop the Glazers. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That’s mine.

Most of this article is accurate, but it still doesn’t offer any realistic alternative. I don’t understand why people still insist on criticising the manager AND the Glazers in the same article for the same problems. It’s either one or the other.

I’m still cautiously optimistic about our chances if we make the right signings and have a relatively injury free season. We won’t be as good as Real or Barcelona, but I’m not sure how much chance we had of achieving that anyway. We couldn’t match the Galacticos in the early 2000s and we couldn’t match Barca in 2009 with arguably our best team in Ferguson’s era.

All we can hope for is to emulate the form we showed at the start of this campaign and hope we reach those heights throughout the season.

if he’d (fergie) just come out and say utd are skint i’d have more respect , whats needed is an absolute shit season , bottom half finish, city winning the treble (ffs), something to get the jcl’s and tourist’s to leave old trafford for more glittering spots , the glaser’s aren’t worried about this , they dont give two shits ….

Sorry but everything in that comment is pretty much the opposite to reality. If Ferguson publicly expressed his displeasure at the Glazers and announced we had no money it could be the end of the Ferguson era and the end of United as a competitive club.

A bottom half finish, lack of income from plastic fans etc would obviously be detrimental.

The Glazers have a vested interest (pun intended) in keeping United in the top 4 positions and for them to be marketed as a top club.

What they don’t care about is whether United play attractive football, whether the loyal fans are happy and whether we are the best team in the world. They are businessmen, not United fans. First or second to them doesn’t mean much I would imagine.

You unsurprisingly choose to leave out the option of ‘Ferguson speaks out, gets fired, the Glazers takeover anyway and the club declines much sooner’. In other words exactly what has happened now except we wouldn’t have won any trophies in the last 5 years.
Brilliant idea.

I would rather have a manager who is happy to tarnish his own name for the benefit of the club than someone who cares more about his own ego. It’s that kind of idealistic bullshit that you and others find great enjoyment in criticising on these same boards when people say ‘believe in SAF’.

Do you appreciate the irony?

Yeah… good one… “idealistic bullshit”…

You’re one of the “realists”, that see Ashley Youngs diving as just a part of the game, aren’t you?

The whole fuckin thing just comes down to pounds and pence to people like you doesn’t it?

I bet you took the piss out of the “saps” that turned their backs on United, and set up F.C. United of Manchester… words like dignity, integrity, honour, have no place in sport for you do they?

Scoff all you like Mate… the Glazers have changed United, changed Ferguson, and what’s left is going to be exactly the type of “franchise”, that fans like you deserve.

Commenter said:
@ Alf: While you are correct in that Fergie could have done taken a stand, my point was, in my opinion, there’s nothing Fergie could have done without serious implications for the club.
The Glazers took control of United in a hostile takeover – United were a PLC, and hostile takeovers do happen. Fergie was powerless, no matter what his opinion was.
I believe if Fergie had taken a stand against the Glazers, he probably would have been forced out of the club after the Yanks seized control anyway. Then we’d most likely be in a much worse position than we are now.

So realistically, and in the best interest of the club, I don’t think Fergie could have done anything to stop the Glazers. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That’s mine.

You’re absolutely right… that “MIGHT”, have happened… but we’ll never know… will we…

History is full of examples of people Uniting to defy the “villain”… when the Glazers first stuck their fat snouts into the United trough… there was outrage… even Gill spoke out against them… the will to oppose them was there… but not the leadership.

In my opinion… Ferguson could have made the difference between, a few hundred protesters pissing and moaning… and thousands showing up at Old Trafford “DEMANDING” to be heard.

Maybe it matters… maybe it doesn’t… but the FACT is… Ferguson said nothing… and only he knows why… and now… we are at the mercy of parasitical owners that we can’t shift.

But that’s not even the end of it… he actively supports them… calling them terrific owners… can’t speak for anyone but myself, but I feel let down by Ferguson…

Ok, Fergie might have rallied the troops into a mass protest. And no doubt, a lot would have listened to his battle cry.

However, (and maybe I’m wrong on this), this what I see as the key point: United were a PLC before the takeover. The shares were held by investors, not supporters of the club, who were in it to make a profit. Glazer offered them a good return on their investment, so they sold him their shares. The board or directors initially turned down the Glazers takeover bid, as they obviously knew what these shysters were up to, and had the power to block them at that stage.

However, the Glazers eventually bought enough of the shares and took control of the club. A hostile takeover. Nobody liked it, but nobody could do a thing.
The only ones who could have stopped the takeover were the shareholders, who could have not sold their shares to the Glazers.

Even if a million supporters had turned up at Old Trafford in protest, there was nothing they could have done…unless they were shareholders of course!

I’d guess (on no authority mind!) that Ferguson was aware of the futility of his protest, so kept his mouth shut. Some feel aggrieved by this. I feel he was powerless, so I don’t hold it against him. You obviously feel differently.

Stevie D – I think the point is Deutsche Bank and a couple of hedge funds would have been a lot less keen to loan more than £500m if the key guy had said he wasn’t in favour. Fergie backed down, quite inexplicably. I hear a lot of rubbish about ‘you can’t expect Fergie to speak out against the owners’ (or potential owners). Christ, in 2004-5 he was suing the majority shareholder in court, while said shareholder was accusing the manager of outright fraud in the media. (The hilarious bit being Coolmore was right all along about how the club was being managed)

Ed, I respect your opinion, and I’m certainly not professing that my view is correct.

I’m just not convinced Fergie could have stopped the takeover, whether he protested or not. Rightly or wrongly as that may be. And that’s why I feel some of the criticism aimed at him is a tad harsh. However, I can appreciate your line of thought.

Just to make it clear, I in no way support the Glazers, and I don’t want to be categorised as a Glazer apologist!

Stevie D – well this is one area where we don’t know anything, there’s nothing in black and white. We don’t know that Fergie could have changed anything. But he didn’t say anything at all and he’s taken the (increasingly large) Glazer coin ever since.

We can be pretty sure is that the row with Coolmore made them more malleable to a sale. They weren’t looking to sell until that all finished and then they made it very clear to everybody that £3 was their price.

Not sure how bothered I’d be if some rich oil baron bought us. The debt the Glazers gave us would be gone and without that we are perfectly capable of competing at the top level financially without input from the rich guy. In a scenario where he didn’t interfere, I could live with that.
Obviously I’d rather the fans could own the club but there is no way I can see that happening

Ed writes an anti-Glazer article after a bad result and Alf profanely slags anyone who disagrees with aspects of it. I’ve seen this movie.

I respect your opinion Ed and your right to have one. I don’t necessarily agree however.

We all support the club or we wouldn’t be so passionate about it. We all know the boat we’re in but there is spin on both sides here. The net spend argument is compelling but it’s clear the Ronaldo sale throws the entire thing out of whack. What did Juve’s net spend look like right after they sold Zidane? We won’t have a summer like 2007 when we were top dog but still bought Hargo, Ando and Nani and we won’t always have a 2009. We’re stuck with the devils we know and no. I don’t want oligarchs and oil barons either. Agent fees, dividends, taxes, we’ll see money coming out of the club regardless. Let’s stay away from the foreign and domestic fan distinctions please. Yes, the foreign fan doesn’t pay the higher ticket prices regularly but that fan would kill to go rather than overpay some overseas cable company for the one EPL channel and watch games at three in the morning.

The truth is NONE of us know the Glazer’s true intentions. I personally think that it is in their interest to keep the team at the top and will invest to keep it so. How much and to what extent i don’t know and neither does anyone else. I personally don’t support paying part-time Nasris and over the hill, injury prone Sneijders 200K per week and neither do 95% of the clubs out there. Real and Barca have their own TV contracts and Chelski/Man City are on another planet. I get what you’re saying Ed. In a perfect, deleveraged world, United would belong on that planet with the high-spenders. First, That ship sailed when United became a PLC. If you don’t want anyone to buy it, don’t put it up for sale. Second, if we bought a Nasri or 2 every year, how long before we lost our identity and looked like City in terms of egos and attitudes? I think the investment in youth gets us that spirit we love as fans. No they’re not Wes Browns from Longsight anymore but I think Rafael bleeds as Red as anyone these days.

What happened last week? Utd got mown down 1-0 away generally by the most expensive club on the planet and particulaly by Yaya Toure, a player would loved money more than playing for BARCELONA. This kind of result has happened before and it will happen again but I like our investment in youung players, paying them when it’s worth it and the occasional big buy when it’s warranted. Please god let that be Hazard this summer.

Twisted – Look, the thing is we do have a very good idea of the Glazers intentions because we have 7 years of financial history to look back on. Their intention is to squeeze every last penny of value out of the club and that’s the only intention.

You can say that the Ronaldo sale throws it all out of wack but if we throw that away and call it £30m the annual average still comes out at less than under the previous regime, in a period of heightened ‘football inflation’ (I’ll do a fuller analysis taking this into account). But the thing is Ronaldo does count. It’s not an outlier because £80m is a good reflection of the talent lost. We would have won the league already had Ronaldo still been at the club. Does anybody here doubt that? The fact that Fergie thinks we got ripped off says much. Net spend IS relevant because its a measure of the talent brought in and the talent lost to the club. Football is not a perfect market but in an economist’s sense (I am a trained economist) its a very good one – very good information etc.

Finally, the contention that the Glazers have to invest big to make money is pretty much nonsense. All they really need is for the club to invest enough to make sure United is in the top four and qualify for the Champions League. The spend required to rise one place in either PL or CL is very high (read some of the analysis by people doing the ‘transfer price index’ for some additional data). It’s probably not worth it from a pure profit point of view, and that is what the Glazers are after. Profit.

united fans of a certain vintage appreciate the glory that fergie has brought to our great club. But having supported the club long before he arrived, we are able to acknowledge both his virtues and his vices. Many have trumpeted his trade union past as an acknowledgement that he is a socialist, a man of the people. This ignores the financial solipsism, as opposed to any real egalitarian program, that underlined most of that old-school trade union activity. Fergie appears obsessed with money. Many of the actions taken by him, in his part or in his footballing life, appear to be motivated by financial gain. The battle with the coolmore mafia; the threat to go on strike and not lead the team out against the dippers in the ’96 cup final. In no way could these issues ever be considered to have been fought in the best interest of manchester united football club; they were fought for the best interest of fergie. It is my simple belief that him and gill stay mute on the issues which trouble us so much, primarily because they are so handsomely remunerated by that family. I appreciate this will be an unpalatable judgement for many, and i will incur the wrath of many for these opinions – although as a proud mancunian with thirty years of loyal support under my belt, i will lose little sleep about abuse from tourists and the “market forces” brigade – but this is the only interpretation i can reach based on the conjecture as we know it.. This though is not to denigrate fergie. As well as the monetary incentive, i believe that another massive factor in his support for that family is that they simply allow him to get on with it, free from the meddling intrusion that characterized the tenure of martin edwards and the plc. The efficacy of such a policy had been borne out by our recent trophy haul. But this isn’t just about trophies. This is about the city of manchester. This is about how one club, with its narrative of creation, destruction, glory, pride and tragedy, came to perfectly embody the city which bore it, and now embodies the worst excesses of western capitalism: crassness, debt, vapidity. Like it or not fergie could stop this . He could have stopped this in 05 – that families biggest fear was that fergie would critise the take over as the spiv bank lenders would not proceed if fergie denounced the bid- but he chose not to. And that says it all: genius as a manager, poor as a man.

If Ferguson was a young manager, with a family to provide for, I could appreciate that kind of argument… but considering his working class roots, the fact that he’d won everything the game had to offer, and most importantly the place he had in the hearts of the fans of United… I just can’t understand his continuing, proactive support for owners that have contributed NOTHING to this club… they only TAKE!

And by the way… your description of how the Glazers seized control of United, completely skipped over the fact that… the Glazers DIDN’T even have the finances to fund their take over… they had to borrow, over 60 percent of the cash at exorbitant rates… something that in my opinion should not have been allowed.

Yes Sydney, bit of a sucker for utopian far left gangs.Was always fascinated by the Manchester Education Commitee, who you’ll remember as being active in direct actions against Glazer in 2005, but could never find out anything about them. Apparently King Mob were formed by two geordie art school students in the late sixties. They were kicked out of the situationists due to “manarical excesses.” God knows what they got up to. Guy Debord is the George Best of social commentators. .

Hugely laughable article. You put on some stats while neglecting the background of things. Net spending is lower because of the Ronaldo sale (you say that shows the talent leaving the club, but he was always going to leave). Under Glazers we’ve had hugely successful year, a summer that brought Anderson,Tevez,Hargo,Nani….Berbatov, a 27yrd old player for a record breaking fee…

This season we’ve been hampered by injuries. That’s what cost us Europe (Fergie said he trusted the young players a bit too much). Jones played as midfielder. And City who you lavishly praise about buying great players went out of all cup competitions pretty much at the same time as we did, having maximum of 4-5 unavailable players at a given time. We had about 11 at different points.

Do you remember at the start of the season how every pundit on Earth thought we will walk away with the tittle?
That’s because we had a full squad ready to go, top first 11 with an immense bench. We’ve lost Vidic, Fletcher long term. What was supposed to be important season for Tom and Ando fell apart because of injuries too.

And please, you make sick about comments calling for Ferguson’s replacement. Moruinho, who inherited a team that spent 200m the year before, spent 70m himself yet only managed the league. We under Fergie and Glazers managed 3 finals(1 won) while also winning the league during those seasons.

Really, I’ve just lost all respect of this website. Yes, we all bitter about what’s happened (we’ve given away the league before, having a bigger advantage, during peak year of the squad), but you don’t have to jump to conclusion and join the ”City will dominate the world” bandwagon.

Borche – I haven’t called for Ferguson’s replacement at all. Where do I do that? Or are you too blinded by your anger at anything that even hints at criticsm to actually read the article before launching into another ill-informed post?

You can list a bunch of players but it doesn’t make your argument any better – the numbers are accurate. Perhaps it doesn’t support your theory, but these are the facts: United spends less now than in the past at a time of huge inflation in football, and money counts for a lot in football. The gradual decline in United’s squad is real. Don’t agree. Then show me the trophies this season.

I take your points on board Ed but still they’re still a theory. A circumstantial theory can make sense and still be wrong without having all the facts. From an evidentiary point of view (I am a career barrister/solicitor/attorney) testimonial evidence has its weight too and in that corner we have Fergie who has said the owners have supported him whenever he asked and have been terrific. I think the poster who said Fergie probably appreciates it when the Glazers let him get on with it is probably closer to the mark than anyone else. I think Fergie’s old fashioned senisbilities come to the fore whenever a player’s fee seems too high or compensation demands like helicopters to discos or buy my house in Italy souund exhorbitant. These sensibilites, of course, play into the hands of the bean counters so then you have a marriage made in hell i guess. Anything worth doing is worth doing for money and while you believe the Glazers only care about a top four finish, I’m sure they would just as well win the league. If we had bought Carrol last summer, our net spend would look better but we probably would have finished lower as we lost games trying to insert that yob into our team. Yes Fergie lies but it’s usually about football and he’s no coward, that’s for sure. The extent to which we fans think we know what’s going on in his head always has baffled me. If we did, we’d be pretty close to knowing how he manages the team and we don’t. Truth is, Fergie likes buying players like Scholes and Tony V. They play hard, play well never complain or want to play antwhere else. My point is we can’t speak in absolutes like people’s points are “nonsense” and the Glazers’ “only intentions” unless we have all the facts which we don’t. For instance, why didn’t the Glazers buy back the PIKs with United revenues? Why didn’t they rename the Stadium? Why refurbish the training facilities, etc? Fan pressure? These are Americans whose lives are threatened regularly by idiots and cannot attend home matches for fear of violence. We don’t know what we don’t know. We can only opine.

Twisted – I’m not sure Fergie’s testimony has much credibility. His pay has increased from £4m – £8m under the Glazers. You might call that a conflict of interest.

As for the rest United’s balance sheet is not a circumstantial theory. Quite the opposite and it pains me you’d lose such credibility by claiming it. There’s no theory in the numbers.

Piece in the Telegraphy today…. United is now known as “nomoney.com” by fellow Premier League chairman because of the club’s Scrooge-like approach to negotiations. It’s exactly the same rep that the club has on the continent too. That’s hearsay, of course, but damning all the same.

We don”t need a whole lot of money to buy expensive players in order to win trophies. We need a manager that gets his tactics right. We need a manager that puts the right players on the field in their correct positions. We need a manager that does not change a winning team. Look at Wigan, they are playing the best football in the league. Do they have any world class players? The manager there has got it right!
Tottenham had been so succesesful because Rednapp never changed his winning team unless a player was injured, he just replaced that injured player. But this also lead to their downfall because after Christmas, his team was burnt out and they went five games without a win. Okay, we had a few injuries but losing 6-1 at home to City tells it all. I respect all you fans because you pick the team every week that you feel should be playing and everytime you are 100% right, but SAF does not see it your way, his football mind is gone! SAF needs us fans to pick the team for him every week and I’m sure we would have already won the league by now. Whats interesting is that SAF said he likes the style of football that Bilbao plays and he was looking to change our style next season. Are we getting a new tactical coaching staff?

This post has nowt ti do wi the title of this thread so apologies.
There is money there to buy two world class midfielders this summer and pay them.
There are at least part funds available selling high wage earners who sometimes don’t even make the bench.

Considering we CAN buy players (midfielders) Is there any excuse for Fergie not to this summer?
We waste so much money on players and backups to fill areas that are not our absoulte priority. Why not spend on one ,two players in the very area that will improve our squad 100% and forget about strikers and defenders and goalkeepers for one summer. We can spend big on at least one world class midfielder I’m totally convinced of that Glazer or no Glazer.

Two world class midfielders wwould practically pay for themselves after two years.

Fergie’s strategy at the moment is put stop gaps in midfield (like Jones for eg) until Rooney is past it .
Plenty of time to buy squad players like Jones and the like once we have a structured team.
Don’t get me wrong I like Jones but Fergie tries to turn these types of players into starting Midfielders(Fletcher!) ,I don’t see other top clubs doing this.

This bullshit policy isn’t going to work nowadays, cause we get embarrassed in competitions like the Cl .His transfer activity(or lack of) idealism lately complicates and compromises what could and really should be a much better balanced squad.

If the Glazers turned around and said we can get you Iniesta or Ya Ya Toure tomorrow the truth is Fergie would prob say ‘ I’ve got plans for Jones in that position ‘.

Commenter said:
Yes Sydney, bit of a sucker for utopian far left gangs.Was always fascinated by the Manchester Education Commitee, who you’ll remember as being active in direct actions against Glazer in 2005, but could never find out anything about them. Apparently King Mob were formed by two geordie art school students in the late sixties. They were kicked out of the situationists due to “manarical excesses.” God knows what they got up to. Guy Debord is the George Best of social commentators. .

Aye, it’s hard to find out anything about the MEC because it would appear that they’re not interested in publicity, and they have no port of call like a website/blog. They operate in an old school manner via word of mouth organisation. Are they even still active? It’s hard to tell. The mob who turned up at Rooney’s house during his contract dispite were apparently members of the Continuity MEC. There was also the incident a few years ago where the Glazers were chased into a hotel by a van load of blokes in balaclavas and wielding bats. Top work.

The King Mob are ace. I’ve recently been posting some of their artwork (‘Bugger Britain’, ‘Never Work’ etc.) on my blog, and people love it, people who don’t know who they were.

Thanks Sydney. Could agree more about king mob. Their art work is great. A great watch is an angry brigade documentary made in around ’73. Type “angry brigade” into you tube. The guy who posted it is called “harry walsh” or something like that. The mad thing about this group is that they pursued situationist ideology of attacking the market state -by attacks on property not people- and one of the safe houses they used was in Moss-Side, although none of them were mancs. You’ll have to give me a link to your blog to discuss further. The Telegraph article was appropriately depressing wasn’t it? The devestatingly concise and clinical post from Julian re’ the Glazer horror story thus far, even more so. Sheesh, the MEN i suppose were like a angry brigade lite group. They issued press releases stating that people who supported the Glazer takeover would be targeted as “collaborators.” Maurice Watkins got his car painted red for selling his shares to Glazer. They also stopped a reserve team game when one of the stood in the centre circle and burned an American flag.Not condoning this but they made an interesting counterpoint to Micky Crick and the other shareholder united team. By the way sorry about the lack of paragraphs in these posts. I’m typing this on my phone, which seems determined to make me write in sub-Kerouac prose.

I think its fairly clear what the Glazers are up to. They are planning to sell the club around the time the bonds are due for repayment – 2017. In fact they intend to continue to utilise profits to pay down that debt even before. Their instruction to Fergie (via Gill) is to keep the team competitive – ie minimum to qualify for the ECL and the knockout stages thereof. Limited funds will be available for transfers but the salary bill must be kept in the 50% of turnover range. Younger prospects with reasonable wage demands and a potential good sell on value are preferred to the expensive more established stars. The club is currently worth around say 1.5bn with a debt of 500m. By 2017 it might be worth say 2.5bn, if costs are contained, with no debt. Why should the Glazers sell now when Fergie can keep things ticking over – teamwise a la Wenger at Arsenal – with the club on a financially sound footing. Ground still full, sponsorships in place, worldwide merchandising flourishing, tv rights etc. Trophies? Not necessarily a priority anymore.

Great article-as always. Yes, United have to spend big this close season but lets stand back and have a look at the season as a whole. To be honest last August I thought finishing third or fourth would be an achievement. However,until last month, the team, domestically at least, defied the odds. Is it so calamitous to finish second to a club that has spent hundreds of millions and still (if results at the weekend go as predicted) only win the division on goal difference? A division where the other main contenders, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool have applied no pressure whatsoever at the top. A season where United have played well in patches, where Spurs flattered to deceive and neither Arsenal and Chelsea bothered to turn up until February and of course Liverpool in transition.City,for all their spending,have played some good,not great, football whereas United have found it hard to rise above mediocre. Lets see how this “revolution” at City develops when there are four or five genuine contenders for the title.
I don’t think SAF is likely to go just yet, but I do think there is at least one or two big name continental managers that are bidding their time.But in the meantime SAF needs to get refocused and he, I would suggest, needs to revamp the backroom staff. First to go should be Phelan. He reminds me somewhat of Grima, advisor to King Theoden in Lord of the Rings, whispering tactical poison into the ear of SAF.I leave to yourselves to determine who the Glazers represent. Lets have a clear out and a fresh start and buy big. But above all lets pray for a buy out!

You’re not wrong Ed… it is “sad for fans”… but the frustrating part is… it’s their own fault.

It’s not the Glazers paying £40million in interest payments… the fans pay for it… willingly… the fans that accept the increased match day costs, buy the overpriced merchandise, and allow the Glazers to spend the money that they fork over, to hopefully be entertained, to use as their own private little investment project… these fans have gotten exactly the club they deserve.

Alf – I’ve been writing about the Glazers since they first took a stake in the club around 2004. Bar for a short period during the ‘Green and Gold’ protests the apathy and appeasement towards them is simply astounding. All the excuses made for them then are still made today – you need only read these comments. ‘Wait and see’ has become ‘we don’t really know what their strategy is’. There’s also: ‘look at what we’ve won’, ‘better the devil you know’, ‘we would have spent just as much on dividends’, ‘look at the players they bought last summer’, ‘how can we compete with City’ yada yada yada.

But it’s all excuses – we do know what their strategy is, we’ve won despite not because of them, aside from Hicks and Gillet there is no worse devil, we wouldn’t have spend anywhere near as much on dividends, look at the player they sold!, and we could compete if we didn’t dump almost all our profits on debt related costs.

But there’s this strange phenomenon where people take a financial assessment of the club and see it as some kind of attack. Tribalism kicks in and even intelligent people become completely blind to the truth staring them in the face.

sidney said:
Aye, it’s hard to find out anything about the MEC because it would appear that they’re not interested in publicity, and they have no port of call like a website/blog. They operate in an old school manner via word of mouth organisation. Are they even still active? It’s hard to tell. The mob who turned up at Rooney’s house during his contract dispite were apparently members of the Continuity MEC. There was also the incident a few years ago where the Glazers were chased into a hotel by a van load of blokes in balaclavas and wielding bats. Top work.

I remember reading about this group at the time of the takeover. I don’t really know anything about them. What’s their story exactly and what’s their connection with the club?

Like you say Ed… in spite of, not because of… we’ve still enjoyed success… the Glazers have been very lucky, in that sense.

However… I think that luck has run out… City are not Chelsea under Mourinho… the 40 Thieves of Etihad, will continue to invest, without meddling the way Abramovic did… they will only get stronger… AND Chelsea will spend again… they are due an expensive overhaul, and I think Abramovic knows it… and I think Arsenal are only one or two good signings away from a big improvement.

I still think we’ll finish top 4… but I think the days of being “THE” team to beat, in the PL… and repeatedly making Champs league finals are over… not that the Glazers will mind too much… as long as OT continues to sell out…

Commenter said:
Ed, I respect your opinion, and I’m certainly not professing that my view is correct.
I’m just not convinced Fergie could have stopped the takeover, whether he protested or not. Rightly or wrongly as that may be. And that’s why I feel some of the criticism aimed at him is a tad harsh. However, I can appreciate your line of thought.
Just to make it clear, I in no way support the Glazers, and I don’t want to be categorised as a Glazer apologist!

Mate… whether you believe Ferguson could have stopped the takeover or not… how can he justify his proactive support of owners, who have done nothing for the benefit of the club… not one single thing… all they do is take…
And Ferguson calls them “terrific owners”… directly in opposition to every fan that wants them out!
Explain that!

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

Fucking depressing! Nothing short of writing to Bill Gates and asking him for £2 billion to return United to the fans I’m out of ideas. To be honest it would only take a handful of games whereby Old Trafford is empty to oust them out or at least make them change their position Their plan seems finely balanced but to think we have got them till 2017…

“Explain that” I and nobody other than SAF can explain it? I can’t explain why people in my profession think its appropriate to build houses in functional floodplain knowing that whilst johnny developer walks away with his pockets full you and I pick up the tab for defending it and increased insurance costs. I don’t know why we stomach it shrug our shoulders and carry on as usual? I just don’t know anymore, on so many levels!

“Mate… whether you believe Ferguson could have stopped the takeover or not… how can he justify his proactive support of owners, who have done nothing for the benefit of the club… not one single thing… all they do is take…
And Ferguson calls them “terrific owners”… directly in opposition to every fan that wants them out!
Explain that!”

Because it could do more damage to the club by publicly criticising the owners?
Of course I don’t know that, but neither do you, however much you pretend to.

What gets me is that people like you seem to be suggesting Ferguson would rather have the Glazers than owners who didn’t leach money from us. It’s laughable. Ferguson cares about his own legacy more than anything else – that means winning trophies and being considered the best. How can he do that with no funds?
In my opinion he is trying his best to protect the club’s reputation as one of the biggest in the world despite having no funds.

This means publicly stating we have great owners with plenty of cash (to make us attractive to ambitious players) and winning the title at all costs so when people look at the table all they see is United at the top, regardless of the quality of football. Obviously it didn’t work this season, but he was pretty fucking close, you can’t deny that.

Ah, the Angry Brigade. I found the documentary, its “tony walsh”. I’ll give it a watch. Btw, World In Action did a special on the AB in the early 70s. You might have seen it already but I’ll post the link anyway http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTg1NjI2ODg4.html. It contains an insightul interview with Hilary Creek and the late Anna Mendelssohn, who comes across really well. I’ve been meaning to check out more of her work.

I was just thinking this morning how consoling the argument that we did really well to finish second would be if we weren’t Man United.

If Norwich or Fulham finished second their fans would be justified in feeling elated about it, and the pundits could commend them on doing so well on compratively limited resources.

But us: our home is Old Trafford, a ground which simply screams out that here is a place of incomparable greatness, a `Theatre of Dreams’.

Maybe the Glazers and their fans/supporters/apologists should bite the bullet and take us to a new stadium )if one can use that word), say Altrincham’s or Manchester University’s as being more fiting for our much reduced ambitions.

Ed – you are quite right about supporters being blind to the truth of the Glazers but I think is deeper than that. People cannot or will not accept that the involvement of the Glazers in our club will have dire long term consequences.The Glazers are not oil rich billionaires who can afford to finance clubs like City as a whim. The Glazers are hard nosed business people who will squeeze every last pound of profit out of the club. It does not matter to them that the club is an “institution” with a great history. To them it is just another commodity to be used and abused.
I say this with a heavy heart, but perhaps we should have won nothing since 2005. That may have given the Glazers second thoughts and maybe opened the way for the Red Knights take-over.
I’m afraid for the future (why are we letting top class youngsters go?) and the Sword of Damocles hangs over the club. Unless something is done quickly I fear a terminal decline (maybe the Glazers will be aware of this scenario and invest heavily this year) but again it will be for short term gain and publicity.

Alex – explain why net spend is misleading? Football is a market. The market places a value on talent. Ronaldo’s talent was valued at £80m. That’s a financial representation of the talent lost to United. It’s the best way we have of measuring talent coming in and out.

Whilst there is a lot of truth in the article let’s not forget SAF will probably go down in history as the greatest ever manager, to achieve what he has this season, with a squad nowhere near City’s quality plus we have been ravaged by injuries, is quite a feat!

MUFC thanks to the Ronaldo business, buy at 13m sell for 80m, makes us by far one of the lowest spending teams in the history of the Premiership, it is a myth that we are high spenders, due to the fact we are also a selling club which balances our books.

SAF as long as he is healthy will still give City a run for their money as we have in the past with Real Madrid and Chelsea, that is why he is currently the best in Europe! He simply wins on a shoestring and a winning mentality.

Enjoy your successes for as long as it lasts at City, i can remember Liverpool, Leeds, Arsenal, Nottingham Forrest, Aston Villa when they were the best, but you cannot buy what MUFC have achieved, well not in our lifetime!

Tony – I just wrote 1500 words on why you should complain. But I have to say it’s this kind of comment drives me to keep on writing. For a start, they’re called the GLAZERS. Second, you just neatly explained that Ferguson has achieved much despite working “on a shoestring”. So why should he? While fans are paying more? And the club is hemorrhaging money? And there’s still more than £440m of debt on the club?

Commenter said:
“Mate… whether you believe Ferguson could have stopped the takeover or not… how can he justify his proactive support of owners, who have done nothing for the benefit of the club… not one single thing… all they do is take…
And Ferguson calls them “terrific owners”… directly in opposition to every fan that wants them out!
Explain that!”
Because it could do more damage to the club by publicly criticising the owners?
Of course I don’t know that, but neither do you, however much you pretend to.
What gets me is that people like you seem to be suggesting Ferguson would rather have the Glazers than owners who didn’t leach money from us. It’s laughable. Ferguson cares about his own legacy more than anything else – that means winning trophies and being considered the best. How can he do that with no funds?
In my opinion he is trying his best to protect the club’s reputation as one of the biggest in the world despite having no funds.
This means publicly stating we have great owners with plenty of cash (to make us attractive to ambitious players) and winning the title at all costs so when people look at the table all they see is United at the top, regardless of the quality of football. Obviously it didn’t work this season, but he was pretty fucking close, you can’t deny that.

What gets me… is people like you, that would rather believe anything… any fuckin fantasy, no matter how contrived and farcical, than admit the reasonable possibility, that Ferguson might actually just be a selfish fuckin cunt!…
You’re right… I don’t know… and neither do you.
What I “DO KNOW”… is that the Glazers are horrible fuckin financial parasites, with no concern for United, beyond how much money they can suck out of it… and Alex Ferguson publicly supports them… that is a fact!
And you can dream up all the hypothetical scenarios you want, to try and find reasonable explanations for why he’s siding with the Glazers, instead of the fans… but sometimes… if it looks like shit, and smells like shit… it’s because it is, in fact, SHIT”!

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

Calm down flower. And don’t post random insults based on absolutely nothing in the future… it undermines your opinion. I don’t think Ashely Young diving is a good thing, I’m closer to being a socialist than a capitalist and I believe that integrity, honesty and loyalty are some of the most important things in football and life. You just didn’t understand my comment.

“What gets me is that people like you seem to be suggesting Ferguson would rather have the Glazers than owners who didn’t leach money from us.”

You still haven’t explained that. Ferguson is not selfish, he is egotistical. And I will say it again – why would Ferguson do something which damages the club’s ability to compete at the top / “match Barca” / and silence the “noisy neighbours”, when whatever United achieve reflects directly on him?

Are you suggesting that he is happy with having no money, and the club being made to look like a joke?
Ferguson might be the biggest cunt in the world, but it’s still illogical.

If you reply, don’t insult me because you’re angry or stressed. We’re all angry and stressed about our club at this point.

Does anyone else read the transfer rumours on manutd . com and think they are basically a form of pornography for ugly cunts who will invariably end up with some ‘mature’ slapper or std infected nubile chav?

Commenter said:
Calm down flower. And don’t post random insults based on absolutely nothing in the future… it undermines your opinion. I don’t think Ashely Young diving is a good thing, I’m closer to being a socialist than a capitalist and I believe that integrity, honesty and loyalty are some of the most important things in football and life. You just didn’t understand my comment.
“What gets me is that people like you seem to be suggesting Ferguson would rather have the Glazers than owners who didn’t leach money from us.”
You still haven’t explained that. Ferguson is not selfish, he is egotistical. And I will say it again – why would Ferguson do something which damages the club’s ability to compete at the top / “match Barca” / and silence the “noisy neighbours”, when whatever United achieve reflects directly on him?
Are you suggesting that he is happy with having no money, and the club being made to look like a joke?
Ferguson might be the biggest cunt in the world, but it’s still illogical.
If you reply, don’t insult me because you’re angry or stressed. We’re all angry and stressed about our club at this point.

Pat attention “flower”… because I soon get tired of debating nonsense with fools… not once have I insulted you… get that bit right at least.
If this is the core of your argument…
…
“why would Ferguson do something which damages the club’s ability to compete at the top / “match Barca” / and silence the “noisy neighbours”, when whatever United achieve reflects directly on him?
Are you suggesting that he is happy with having no money, and the club being made to look like a joke?
Ferguson might be the biggest cunt in the world, but it’s still illogical”…
…
Then I’m not sure what else can be said! You are seeing a different Manchester United than I am.
Since the Glazers took over… we have squandered half a billion quid into the ether… we’ve sold one of the best players we’ve ever had, and not seen any of that money put back into the club… we’ve developed an entirely new approach to transfers, and what constitutes United talent… we’ve gone from one of the most financially muscular clubs in football regarding our ability to pursue and acquire talent, to also rans that no longer compete for the best… all this, even though we are still the most valuable club in all of world sports!
The facts and financial figures are there for anyone who wants to look at them… under the Glazers… WE ARE NOT THE SAME MANCHESTER UNITED… everything we have achieved since they came, we have achieved IN SPITE OF, NOT BECAUSE OF… and if we are being honest, also in no small part to luck, that the other major teams have struggled in their transition.
“Are you suggesting that he is happy with having no money, and the club being made to look like a joke?”
We have NO MONEY… everyone knows it… we DO look like a JOKE!!!
But you just watch, while Ferguson drags out the same pathetic game of spin and lies, to get the restless rabble through another summer of underinvestment, until the new season begins and Old Trafford fills up with 75,000 fans willing to keep funding this charade that Ferguson calls “fantastic ownership”.
Believe Ferguson if you want Mate… that’s your choice… I think he’s a lying, back stabbing prick… and I’ve had enough of him and his fuckin masters… they’ve got him on a diamond crusted leash, and he seems to enjoy wearing it.
This is my final year of putting my faith in Ferguson and the Glazers… I love football and United too much… if I didn’t I would give a toss… but I do and I’m sick to back teeth at what’s happening, and feeling totally helpless to do anything about it… I’ve still got lumps on my head from banging it against the wall last year… I’m not doing it any more…
Ferguson and the Glazers will either put something BACK into the club that they’ve taken so much out of… or I will find a more enjoyable way to spend my Saturdays…

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

Sigh. Once again you have failed to grasp my argument. And yes, you did insult me in a comment you made earlier with accusations based on nothing.

Nowhere did I say that the Glazers were good for United.

My only point was that it’s not necessarily Ferguson’s fault that a) the Glazers are in charge or b) he publicly supports them.

You believe (from what I can gather) that Ferguson, between a large transfer kitty and a personal wage increase, would choose the wage increase, and that he is supporting the Glazers because they pay him handsomely despite destroying the club.

I just don’t believe that. NOT because I think Ferguson is a wonderful human being, but because I think his ambition in football outweighs his desire for an obscene retirement fund.

Can’t you see why that is conceivable?

Let me repeat one more time before you reply with another pointless tirade – I hate the Glazers, I hate what they have done to our club, I hate the fact Ferguson publicly supports them, I hate that we have almost no money to buy players etc etc.

I accept global warming and I accept that the Glazers are fucking parasites! There is no debate there – so why are you accusing me of supporting the Glazers?!

What you don’t realise (and what your frustration is blinding you to) is that I agree with you on pretty much everything, the main difference being that you see Ferguson’s flaw as greed, while I see it as egotism. And Ferguson’s ego depends on how successful United are, not by how much money is in his bank account.

Here is a question:

if you were in Ferguson’s shoes, would you rather have an extra 3 MIL a year for retirement, or would you rather have 50MIL for transfers?

I think Ferguson would pick 50MIL for transfers.
Maybe you disagree, that’s fine.
But my opinion is that there must have been some reason why Ferguson didn’t oppose the Glazers, both before and in the present day. Whether that is ignorance of how our resources would be drained or fear that speaking out would see him fired and United entering immediate decline in 2005/06, I don’t know. But I bet if you offered him the chance now to swap our owners with some benevolent souls who DIDN’T siphon money from us, he would bite your hand off.

I don’t know why people are going on about Fergie and Gill. Fergie’s a football manager, his job is to win silverware. His decision to stay on and work with the Glazers has been vindicated on the basis that he’s won lots of silverware in the past few years. Gill’s the chief exec of the United company. When the Glazers first came along, he vocally opposed their takeover on the basis that it wasn’t the best for the company, but the shareholders didn’t give a fuck and took the money. By all accounts he’s done his job as chief executive well since. As a company, United is well run, with the glaring exception of the debt. But the debt’s not his fault, he fulfilled his duty by pointing out that it was a bad idea in the first place.

Anyway who thinks United would be in a better place as either a football club or a company if Fergie and Gill had left in some deluded protest is fucking kidding themselves. Not that I think this makes them saints either, they’re just doing their jobs. But United is better off for them doing their jobs.

Anyway, the Glazers are just parasitic assholes. Their takeover is not a moral issue in the same way that being bought by Abramovich (gangster with blood on his hands) or the Qataris (horrible human rights regime) would be. I’m more critical of people who stay on to accept dirty money than those who work in a company they think is badly run.

Ferguson and the Glazers will either put something BACK into the club that they’ve taken so much out of… or I will find a more enjoyable way to spend my Saturdays…

I think this is going way too far with regards to Ferguson. He has put plenty back into the club: fucking European and English titles for most of the past 5 seasons. As a football manager, what more could he give to the club besides the amount of silverware he has given?

I’m not saying he’s a saint, but why do people insist on making him either a saint or demonising him. He’s just a bloke who’s very good at running football teams. Despite what you seem to think, he doesn’t get to decide who owns Manchester United as a company.

Fergie is not a financial man, he’s a football manager and a hugely successful one. As far as the Glazers are concerned I think Fergie has been quite happy with them up until now because essentially they don’t interfere with the selection and running of the team. I say up until now because I think Fergie somewhat relishes the challenge of buidling a side by bringing in promising youngsters and the odd big transfer rather than having all the money in the world and being able to acquire anyone he may want. He also has bought into the idea that the transfer world has gone “insane” and that there’s no “real value” etc. He has skilfully kept United competitive in the EPL this season despite a lack of proper investment in the team. Having said that, its what has happened in Europe that is the key. United are now clearly uncompetitive in the ECL. There are probably half a dozen teams which are better than United right now. This is a huge come down for a team which won the competition and got to the final twice more in recent memory. So this is the key and Fergie must know it. He has to buy two maybe three players who are not just prospects for the future but who can have an immediate impact. It’s absolutely no good negotiating with Scholes to stay on and hoping that Giggs can keep going when you look at the European side of things. In fact with City raising the bar domestically and no dooubt the others expecting a far better season next time, you can say the same for the EPL as well. The Glazers are not long term investors. They want to sell, probably in the next five years. In the meantime they think they own a cash cow with a brilliant manager who can fashion on going success out of anything. Success in their terms means increasing income and containment of costs,first and foremost. It does not mean a stream of trophies every season. However, in the meantime Fergie wants to go out on a high: he must realise that proper investment in the team is now vital in order for him to achieve that. The Glazers will make some cash available but its unlikely to be enough for what is really required. Maybe, finally, there’s a clash looming.

bman said:
I think this is going way too far with regards to Ferguson. He has put plenty back into the club: fucking European and English titles for most of the past 5 seasons. As a football manager, what more could he give to the club besides the amount of silverware he has given?
I’m not saying he’s a saint, but why do people insist on making him either a saint or demonising him. He’s just a bloke who’s very good at running football teams. Despite what you seem to think, he doesn’t get to decide who owns Manchester United as a company.

Bernie… the issue has NEVER been about Ferguson the “United manager”… I’ve said many times before that as manager of the club, I wouldn’t swap him for anyone…
But what really amazes me is how people seem to be able to draw a line between Ferguson and the Glazers, as if they are two different aspects of United… they are NOT!… they should be, but they are NOT!
Ferguson has very publicly thrown in with the Glazers… he didn’t have to, and anyone who says he did, “is fucking kidding themselves”… he’s a 70+ year old man, with more money than he’ll ever need, and a reputation of taking no shit from anyone…
He could have said nothing… run the club as best he can, and let the fans loathe the Glazers without him… but instead… he lauds them with praise, and defends their running of the club, with what everyone knows is lies.
I really don’t understand how you can defend that… I really don’t.

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

I’m not defending it, I just that’s part of the package. If you’re going to stay on and work at the club, then you’ve got to toe the party line in public. I don’t think Fergie or Gill or anyone else has the option to “stay quiet”. Journalists are obviously going to ask him about it, and it’s not like he’d get away with saying “no comment” or dodging the question, they’d have a feeding frenzy.

It’s not pleasant to look at, but I think you’ve got to recognise that if someone is going to work someplace, then they can’t be seen to be pissing inside the tent.

Mind you, for all I know, Fergie actually does prefer the Glazer regime to the old regime, it’s not like he got along well with the previous shareholders, and it does seem that Gill and him have a fairly free reign to do what they want — it’s only the bottom line the Glazers care about. I don’t think that would make him the worst person in the world. The Glazers are bad, they suck money out of the club, but they don’t sell guns to African civil wars. If Fergie decided he could work with them and still win silverware, I don’t think he deserves to be abused by the supporters. Supporters have every right and good reason to protest the Glazers, I just don’t think it’s fair to crucify Fergie and Gill for staying on in a situation that’s far from ideal, but still good enough for the club to achieve more than anybody but Barca over the past 5 years.

I’d also trust Gill more than anybody else to avoid catastrophe over the next few years. The Glazers’ refinancing plans have clearly gone to shit, but the club is managing to get by without doing a Leeds, or without letting the squad go totally to shit like Chelsea’s or Arsenal’s.

All yous fucking dafties who think the Glazer takeover is “ok” or “fine” or even “Not the end of the fucking world”

The Glazers might be business men, but in my opinion, they’ve completely fucking misjudged the business model required to keep a football club at the very top of the sport. Football is a chronically cash intensive sport to finance – it requires a huge operating budget, to keep the players paid, but ALSO requires significant and regular capital outlay to continue to bring in the best available talent whenever required.

The fact is, making regular debt payments affects BOTH.

Revenue streams in football are risky. They are based on inherent uncertainty – United get further in cups, you get the double benefit of more home games and prize money. You go out of cups early, you get a double hit. Because of that, if you’re being frugal / prudent, you can’t bet you make it to the Champions League semi every year, etc. Or, in the case of United at present, because the club has debt putting a strain on cash, it is risky to both increase operating costs and make capital outlays because you can’t guarantee the success to ensure you make a profit.

Hence, the investment approach – buy the absolute minimum talent, at the lowest price possible, for the lowest wages possible, in order to keep the club reaching a reasonable position in the league, Champions League, FA and League Cups, to maintain revenue streams to maintain the brand.

NOTE – that doesn’t necessarily mean WINNING anything anymore. Look at those daft cunts who have turned up week in, week out at Klanfield and the daft Barcodes. They fill their grounds every week to see that shower of shit (Barcodes less shit of late). The point is – there’s still very little success (Klanfield this season excepted, cup team that they are).

My point is – the Glazers aren’t about to start shipping a giant fucking wadge of cash out of the club any time soon. They want to have to reinvest the bare minimum of cash required to keep the club (a) in the Champions League (b) therefore in the top four in the league (c) reaching late enough rounds in cups to get more home games.

NOTHING. ELSE.

Not winning. Not playing the best football. Not matching Barcelona, Real Madrid, of late the Bitters.

NOTHING. ELSE.

That isn’t acceptable to the fans, but we still get 76,000 every week. We still will get 76,000 every week. And unless those parasitic bellends fuck right off, and soon, we’ll be in the same category as those deluded mongs in Klanfield and those bellend Barcode cunts.

“I’m not defending it, I just that’s part of the package.”
Bollocks!
Your entire post was a defense of Ferguson, or a rationalizing of his “precarious” position.
Poor Alex Ferguson… having to walk this fine line between corporate politics and personal ambition, without alienating his beloved fans.
Horseshit Bernie!
This is Alex Ferguson ffs… a 70 year old, railroad spike, who’s never taken a backward step in his life… and you’re trying to portray him as an office daisy, trying not to upset his superiors.
The Glazers are sucking the very life out of United… even YOU agree with that… and Ferguson not only publicly supports them for it… but also actively participates in the lies and spin to manipulate the fans.
Now… if you disagree with that, then fine… I don’t know what else to say, but fine… but if you don’t disagree with that, then for fuck sake, quit trying to rationalize it… because you can’t.
Ferguson has completely and willingly climbed into bed with the Glazers… and only he truly knows why, but it makes the bile rise in my throat…

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

A couple of thoughts on the greed v ego debate between Alf and DeadRevel.

Firstly, Fergie can be a combination (maybe a peverse combination) of both.

Secondly, the desire for glory thing is, in my mind, not unconnected to the `tinkering’ phenomenon: Fergie wants to win, but he also, to my mind, wants to prove the world wrong and to win against the odds: so whereas a great 4-0 win over powerfdul opponents where Utd play like demons of total football would please him, but a 1-0 scarped and scrappy win against powerful opponents where no one gave Uniteds a chance and everyone was shocked at the totally unexpected lineup or tactics would please him more. So the part of him that would love to have the resources to build a fantastic squad that would take the league and CL by storm is outweighed by his desire to show that he has the genius to win trophies with limited resources. He would rather be an alchemist turning lead into gold than an architect building the perfectly magnificent team.

Trouble is the resources are now just too limited to do anything with, and all the team can manage is the odd golden performance or golden goal.

Looking through the history of the take over and the discussion in Andersred blog it’s always seemed as if the Glazers have not simply misjudged the idea of a footballing franchise but have been and continue to be massively out of their depth taking on United as a business investment. Whats the chance s that if the IPO doesn’t go to plan they cut and run sooner rather than later?

I’m not that interested in discussing the nature of SAF’s relationship with the Glazers. We are simply guessing and without being privy to the conversations and contracts we don’t know what the rational is for his approach. Taking positive or negative position on SAF at this point is unfair and meaningless as we have little context. I’ll hold my judgement.

Commenter said:
A couple of thoughts on the greed v ego debate between Alf and DeadRevel.

Firstly, Fergie can be a combination (maybe a peverse combination) of both.

Secondly, the desire for glory thing is, in my mind, not unconnected to the `tinkering’ phenomenon: Fergie wants to win, but he also, to my mind, wants to prove the world wrong and to win against the odds: so whereas a great 4-0 win over powerfdul opponents where Utd play like demons of total football would please him, but a 1-0 scarped and scrappy win against powerful opponents where no one gave Uniteds a chance and everyone was shocked at the totally unexpected lineup or tactics would please him more. So the part of him that would love to have the resources to build a fantastic squad that would take the league and CL by storm is outweighed by his desire to show that he has the genius to win trophies with limited resources. He would rather be an alchemist turning lead into gold than an architect building the perfectly magnificent team.

Trouble is the resources are now just too limited to do anything with, and all the team can manage is the odd golden performance or golden goal.

No… I’m not having that Mate…

Look… Ferguson has won everything the game has to offer… and his status as one of the worlds greatest ever managers is assured… he has nothing to prove to anyone… not even himself.

The one thing… the only thing in my mind, where Fergusons record comes up short, is Champs league titles… even he admits that, in his time, the should have won it more…

And he will not win another… not with the standard of squad he now has to work with… so either he’s a deluded old fool who’s lost touch with the game… or he’s accepted the situation, and doesn’t mind… and Ferguson is no fool.

Commenter said:
Looking through the history of the take over and the discussion in Andersred blog it’s always seemed as if the Glazers have not simply misjudged the idea of a footballing franchise but have been and continue to be massively out of their depth taking on United as a business investment. Whats the chance s that if the IPO doesn’t go to plan they cut and run sooner rather than later?
I’m not that interested in discussing the nature of SAF’s relationship with the Glazers. We are simply guessing and without being privy to the conversations and contracts we don’t know what the rational is for his approach. Taking positive or negative position on SAF at this point is unfair and meaningless as we have little context. I’ll hold my judgement.

I don’t understand this argument at all… the Glazers have misjudged nothing.
In fact, it seems to me that everything has gone exactly to plan.
They bought United… a £700 million rated club, for less than £300 million of their own cash… paying for the balance, with borrowed money, and making the club, and the fans pay for it.
The club is now worth twice as much, and they still haven’t spent a penny more of their own money… in fact, they’ve leeched out millions in various personal fees and payments.
If they sold the club tomorrow… they’d make a fuckin killing… and the longer they hang on… the more they’ll make.
Sounds like an excellent bit of business to me… and the fans have been played like a golden harp.

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

Look I’m no economist but even still the Glazer’s plan is still dependent on a lot of variables. The asking price seems way to high so they wouldn’t have any takers at 1.8 billion or whatever the daft asking price is. Money is leaving the club but how much into the Glazers pocket seems questionable. The financial crisis has caught them out and the IPO may happen too late and not provide the return they envisage. How long can they hold onto United if we drop out of Europe and like Liverpool become uncompetitive with UCL wages without the UCL football and cash etc. I can’t help but think in my limited knowledge that they have a limited timescale to do what they want to do and its dependant on quite a few factors outside of their control. It could still go tits up for them. If they suspect that could happen could they aim to get out and offer the club cut price to someone who can actually afford the club without the debt? Thats the question I’m asking. I have heard comments on Andersred that they have always been well out of their depth and not as savvy as people think?

I agree that Ferguson seems to have a working class chip on his shoulder. I’m not sure he was ‘bargaining’ on this level of austerity though. There is a big difference between an uphill struggle and an impossible task.

Alfonso

Yes he has won everything, but he also has plenty of money, so that argument sort of destroys itself.

And surely “he has accepted the situation and DOES mind” is also a viable perspective? In other words, he is in the same boat as United fans essentially – he knows there isn’t enough money to compete with other clubs, and he knows that the propaganda he comes out with is bullshit but is probably in the best interests of the club.

I don’t understand where you guys get the idea that United’s extremely astute owners would allow Manchester United PLC to go down the pan.

All business men know they have to reinvest in their businesses,otherwise they go down hill.

These Guys are as astute as they come, and I am sure they know Manchester United’s financial well being is related heavily to their performances on the pitch.

For that reason alone the owners will provide money as and when they need to.

All this talk of crisis at United is rubbish,they have finished this season on equal points with the eventual winners.Their nearest rivals after that where at least ten points behind them.So think before your come out with all this scare mongering about money for players etc.

John – £7.5m net each season over the past 6 seasons. Quite obviously your assertion that ‘the Glazers will provide money’ is nonsense. Black and white, fact, no arguing about it, plain and simple, old fashioned nonsense. It’s taken City £500m to reach the top. The difference between top and fourth, Champions League winners and knock out stages is a LOT of money invested in the market – much more than is provided by winning those trophies. This is a zero sum game for the Glazers – their ‘astute’ business model requires only limited success. The sooner fans like you get this, the better.

I give SAF his due but he has made more bad decisions this season then last season, especially after being 8 points ahead at the top. This is Man.Utd we are talking about, this is not Hartlepool. What surprises me is I would think that there would be so many mega millionaires that would be interested in buying such a famous club as Man.United but none has come forward to buy out these Glazers. How much money are we talking about to buy out these rats? Got to be someone out there with the money. And yes Alfonso is right, we should not continue to bash SAF, including myself, as he will be there come next season. And if he gets the money he needs to strengthen the team, we must support him 100%. SAF is a clever man and he would have learned from the mistakes made.

The Glazers rely heavily on Fergie producing “success” with a limited budget. But Fergie won’t be there for that much longer, surely? Another two seasons perhaps? What then? Which top flight manager will be prepared to take over at United with no real budget to work with? Maybe this is why many think Moyes is ideal! After all he’s used to working with limited resources. He manages to keep Everton ticking over without actually getting anywhere significant. Is that what we are now reduced to looking at for Fergie’s successor?

Meeting the previously laid down criteria for Fergie’s replacement as being someone “with a proven track record at the highest level” now seems increasingly like a remote possibility.

What a load of rubbish, both the Manchester teams finished on 89 points.
City won the Premiership due to United’s carelessness,not due to their spending or their collective abilities as footballers

Chelsea spent 50 million on a certain Spanish player who has not repaid any of the price he cost.

Liverpool also spent 35 million on another over priced player,he also has not delivered.

lesson learnt Sir Alex is right,the market in players is over valued.
City being new money, are in fact helping to keep prices high through their constant out bidding for players.City 89 points Man united 89 points so where is the gain for overpaying for players both in wages and transfers.

Commenter said:
What a load of rubbish, both the Manchester teams finished on 89 points.
City won the Premiership due to United’s carelessness,not due to their spending or their collective abilities as footballers

Chelsea spent 50 million on a certain Spanish player who has not repaid any of the price he cost.

Liverpool also spent 35 million on another over priced player,he also has not delivered.

lesson learnt Sir Alex is right,the market in players is over valued.
City being new money, are in fact helping to keep prices high through their constant out bidding for players.City 89 points Man united 89 points so where is the gain for overpaying for players both in wages and transfers.

If a top player is available and right for your team then you try and get him – whetehr he costs 5m or 35m. This whole ‘no value’ excuse is oh so tired. SAF has spent big before – Berba, Rooney, Rio, Veron. We know the reason why he can’t do that anymore.

It isn’t an excuse,the market in players is overvalued.Newcastle sold well and bought well,the two Africans are banging goals in for fun.The over valued European players are no better but cost a lot more.Torres
£50-00 million where is the value in him?

Manchester United had 89 points at the end of the season and were in a position to win the league “Everton Game” 3-1 up and 4-2 up with 8 minutes left.” City after all their big spending finished on the same amount of points 89.So where is the sense in over paying for average players when there is no gain.

I would much prefer to see players come through at old trafford and become international players,like Ronaldo did,Beckham,Scholes Giggs.United will have a great side next year,because the young players have learnt what its like to play at the highest level.By the way Berba,and veron make a good case not to spend big on players,as you can’t tell if they are going to fit into your existing team.

Far better to try and blood fresh talent,bring them up the United way,let them develop and grow into class players.

It’s not supposed to be JUST about results… can you not understand that?

Doesn’t it bother you at all, that the Glazers raised the price of everything, to squeeze every last penny out of the fans… just so they could spunk it up the wall on “THEIR” debt?

Money that could be used for sooooo many other things much more important… like keeping costs down, to make supporting United more family friendly… how’s that for a start?

I’ve said this many times before… but how about making an annual donation to the most current, worthy cause… of say… £20million?

That’s a fuck of a lot of money… but without the Glazers pilfering… easily affordable for United… and the public relations gained form such a thing would be tremendous… and what a wonderful sense of pride it would give to United fans, all around the world to know that we support a club that could afford to, and had the will to, do such a thing.

The Glazers are sucking a lot more than just money out of United… they are depriving United fans of better players, better football… and ultimately self satisfaction.

We USED to be the envy of the football world for our ability to generate enough money to compete with any other team… debt free… now we’re a second rate outfit… waiting to see who’s left to sign, after City, Chelsea, Real and Barcelona are finished… generating money solely for the benefit, of a single family, with no interest in football… no connection to Manchester, or United, and NO INTEREST AT ALL, IN WHETHER WE SUCCEED OR FAIL, AS LONG AS WE GENERATE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY THEIR BILLS!

Fans like you don’t just frustrate me… you make me sick… in many ways, you’re just like the Glazers… you don’t actually give a shit about Manchester United the Club… just the results of the team you, *ahem*, support.

You need to join the real world,to start with Manchester United decided to float the company.That was in order to gain revenue from the owners at the time.

Obviously once a company goes public anyone with the money and the will can buy a stake in the company of choice.

The Glazers went after United and bought all the shares up,eventually they became owners of the club.

It is their club by the way,they own it lock stock and barrel.They have done nothing wrong at all its their club for God’s sake.They are business people and they own one of the worlds biggest sports brands Man Utd.

They are sensible enough to realise buying ready made talent on the open market is costly and purchases do not always work out anyway.

Far better to buy the unfinished product and mold it into the type of player your type of team requires.

As I said in previous posts ,the talent United have available at Old Trafford as we speak is huge.The young lads who stepped in this year were marvelous.They were learning as they played each game out desperate to do well for Man Utd.Those lads will benefit enormously from their experiences this season.They finished on 89 points, the same as the eventual winners.

Would you prefer costly players like Tevez to be at Old Trafford……………you know the same chap who decided he wasn’t going to play one evening and went missing playing golf for 3 months???

Ferguson knows his stuff and has virtually rebuilt the team again……..I believe he is very interested in signing two lads from a German outfit.

We don’t need the over paid players with the big ego’s and massive wages.United needs players who are pleased to pull on the red shirt and give their all.

But please remember, Man United is owned outright by one of the Glazer’s companies.

It is their club and they can run it as they wish.United have won trophy’s under the Glazers regime.

They will rise to the challenge believe me,they came up slightly short this year,and injury’s plagued the side.Buying in January is a waste of time,Fergy will respond don’t worry about that.I live near OT and have watched man utd all of my life,I have seen them all come and go,Ferguson is the best manager around,bar none.

When The Glazers decide to sell, there are Arab Buyers who who will be happy to pay the price the Glazers want.Man United is in good hands now,these Glazers will not do anything to undermine the massive investment they have made.Please try and remember The Glazers own Manchester United,the bought it its theirs,so stop bleating about how much money has been spent.It won’t matter in the long run.

I grew up not far from Old Trafford,I used to watch the team train at the Cliff.

I met most of the greats Dennis Law ,Best, Charlton ,Eric Cantona,Beckham,Scholes.I was at Wembley in 68 when we beat Benfica.I have seen United relegated under Tommy Dock,but even in the 2nd division the crowds still came and watched, we came straight back up as champions.

People come to United to watch flowing attacking football,winning was important of course and losing was something we had to take when it happened.So when you Guys bleat about money and how much has been spent it makes me laugh.
Expectations are far too high at Old Trafford these days,that’s Fergy’s fault,he has won far too many trophy’s and people expect that to continue seamlessly.

People do not realise Ferguson has been unbelievable in what he has achieved,the Glazers value Fergy and do not get involved with the running of the Club.They look after the business side of things.

David Gill has said there are funds to buy and the club have identified their targets,he also said they will not bring players to United unless they want to come for the right reasons.

Let the Arabs spend their oil money on inflated agents and players fees…………the gravy train will eventually hit the buffers, United will still be creating young millionaires and winning trophy’s as they have always done.

The Glazers own United and are entitled to take profits from their own company,I do wish people would get used to the idea that United is owned by the Glazers and not the fans.

You’re right Sid…
It’s like trying to shift sand with a hay fork with some people.
This guy, has completely gone over to the dark side… United is just a business… and the fans are just rubes to fleeced… and we should all be grateful for the Glazers benevolent leadership.
I bet he’s an Alan Sugar fan n’all… probably sends in his profile to win a spot on “The Apprentice”… hoping to get just one chance to suck up to Sir Alan, with all the other sycophantic twats that honestly believe the world needs more people like him in charge.
My nightmare goes on…

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

John, how about Porthsmouth and Rangers?
*their* clubs, each institution being more than 100 years old and therefore a part of history?
Led to the brink of existence by the same money-chasing businessmen who obviously know too well that they needed to reinvest to keep it up?
Are we immune?

There’s a difference between being able to sign Keane and Veron, and being unable.
Where’s Barcelona now and where’s Ajax – Barca’s farm?

The Glazers are not about to allow man united fc to slip down the league,The clubs you mention were not in a healthy position financially to start with United were and still are.Money for players will be made available.

You lot on here really are living in the past,The Glazers own Man United full stop!!!! They don’t need anybodies permission to do anything, they can do as they please,including run the club into the ground if they so wish.
It’s about time you realised this small fact of life and stopped talking as though your opinion matters it clearly does not.

But yours does?
You talk about living in the past like it was a bad thing… people here are livid because the Glazers were ALLOWED to buy United…it should never have been permitted. Simply because they DIDN’T have the money… try to at least get that right… they only had 30%… the rest needed borrowing… legally allowed perhaps… but ethical bullshit…
And if you honestly think there is nothing that can be done… then you’re a naive fool as well as a Glazer lackey.
Nothing “IS” being done… that is a sad fact… the Glazers are getting away with the cultural rape of a footballing institution… but there is a limit to what people will tolerate… and the Glazers are getting close to pushing that limit… then we’ll see if nothing can be done… when people start protesting in proper numbers outside Old Trafford… when match day numbers drop to the point that they’re not making enough money to pay their debts… and if you think the Premier league, the FA, and even the City of Manchester would sit by while the Glazers let United go bust… you really have no idea of the importance of Manchester United.
This club is as important to Manchester, and the Premier league… as Real, and Barca are to Spanish football and their respective cities… it won’t happen… this isn’t Scotland… the Premier league is the biggest, most profitable league in the world… and Manchester United is the biggest draw of the lot.
The Glazers would do well to remember that.

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

The Glazers can sell tomorrow if they so desire,long standing interest from Quatar is still offering to buy.

The purchase of Man utd was perfectly legitimate,you like lots of others fail to see the corporate nature of Premier ship club owners.The club was sold to the Glazers …….which part of that don’t you understand?

They could sell it too Arabs tomorrow if they so wished,but the don’t want to.You sound terribly upset about the Glazers,all they have done is win titles under their ownership,so what part of that don’t you like.They are entitled to make money…after all they took all the risks and did their homework.

You are just jealous of them,why didn’t you borrow the money and buy the club if you feel so strongly about it?You are a perfect example of the tail wagging the dog.Fans spend money on a team of their choice,owners reap the benefits………..that’s life get over it.

When i started reading the post and the comments, i was quite livid with the accusations made at Ferguson but i think some of the arguments made especially by the Ed and Alfonso have changed my opinion. United was a footballing superpower, up there with the very best. Even now they are most valuable club in the world and their revenues are in the top 3 year in, year out. Doesn’t it bother you one bit that as a football institution, as pointed by Alfonso, United is being raped by the Glazers and you ask us just to accept the ownership? The quality of football has been declining, United are more and more becoming a team associated with grit. I think Alfonso has got it bang on. Doesn’t it affect you that the revenue generated by the club (paid by the fans) is not reinvested in the club but used to pay the interest payments of the Glazer family who don’t respect United as a club but see it as a profit making commodity? All the more baffling is that the man who made us a superpower is now a supporter of the parasites.

Manchester United’s revenue increased to £175million in the last six months of 2011, the Barclays Premier League club announced today. United, who are second in the table behind neighbours and bitter rivals Manchester City, released their financial report for the third quarter of 2011 today. The figures showed that the club’s total revenue at the end of 2011 stood at £175million, an increase of £18.5million on the figure of £156.5million, which United declared at the end of 2010. The club have experienced increases in matchday revenue – up from £52.4million to £54.5million, media revenue – up from £53.7million to £60.9million, and commercial revenue, which has risen to £58.6million from £50.4million. The club, who are taken over by the Glazer family in 2005, have a debt of £439million as of the end of last year, down from £508 million the previous year. The reason behind the decrease in the club’s debt is because United have bought back some of the bonds that were sold as part of a £500million refinancing exercise at the start of 2010. United also reported today that total operating costs rose sharply from £96.9million to £110.8million. Net player capital expenditure jumped from £11.7million £47.9million due to the summer signings of David de Gea, Ashley Young and Phil Jones and general capital expenditure rose by £10.4million, thanks partly due to the cost of refurbishment of the club’s hospitality boxes at Old Trafford. The figures show the Red Devils currently have a bank balance of £50.9million. The club are expected to experience a decline in income over the next six months after dropping down to the Europa League from the Champions League.

Commenter said:
The Glazers are not about to allow man united fc to slip down the league,The clubs you mention were not in a healthy position financially to start with United were and still are.Money for players will be made available.

Where the fuck do you come from… Pluto?
The Glazers don’t have any fuckin money… there’s none to be made available… they’ve pissed it all away on servicing their debt.
We’ve been shafted… they, and Gill and Fergie have been telling us that money is there, for over 5 years… and in that 5 years we’ve spent on average less than half of the £25mill that Glazers promised would be made available annually when they took over.
Quit fuckin arguing bullshit Mate… it’s irritating as hell.

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

I don’t watch polo,I watch my local club Manchester United .If they were to get relegated,I would still watch them.

When the previous owners sold their Man United shares was it because they loved United so much?Or was it because they love money more?

Once United floated there was always a chance someone could buy up their shares.

The Glazers did just that,so blame Edwards who floated the company in order to make money available.That is when United became vulnerable to take over.
So your argument should be with Edwards not The Glazers.

John’s posts above are part of the reason why I don’t think Fergie could have done anything to stop the Glazers taking over.
Here is someone who we’re led to believe grew up in Manchester (not some OOT) and supported United for over 30 years and who doesn’t have a problem with the Glazers…and if you can’t even win over the older generation supposed local born and bred dyed in the wool Reds how can you persuade everyone else as to what the Glazers are doing? That is a problem.

*By OOT, I refer more to the merchandise hogs, the fanboys who support United for some self-validation rather than out of a love for the club. Obviously, I know that being a genuine fan isn’t restricted by geography.

It seems several posters on here don’t understand what ownership means.The Glazers bought Man United by buying all the shares up.

They raised the money by taking out loans,the club turns over enough money to service the loans.

Which part of that don’t you lot understand,If it was City’s owners who decided to buy the club and close it down,there is nothing to stop them.Assuming they could buy the club that is.

Do you get the point yet?The club does not belong to the fans there is no sentiment in business either.The brand Manchester United is owned by the Glazers lock stock and barrel.

So get over it,just like the idiots who started buying green and yellow scarves,its the Glazers business not the fans.

I doubt they will want to see their investment slide down the table,its not in their interests at all.

By the way, Man United lost their title by a very narrow margin,but had a record 89 points.

So as bad a picture as you like to paint,the facts don’t back up the picture of doom and gloom you lot seem to have adopted.

Lots of teams have seasons where they win nothing,its United’s turn this season.If it hurts you so much why not buy a Chelsea scarf and tell the world you support Chelsea,or Man City.They have all spent money and will do again no doubt.

Man United have rebuilt the side virtually,and a few new additions during summer will complete the job.

As I said record points this year, and several young players who have done exceptionally well in spite of being thrown in at the deep end.

League Winners 89 points runners up 89 points,it says it all really………..Man United are not in crisis.

It’s not about United losing this year’s title which could have easily been ours!! The thing is City have matched United on the pitch and with their staggering wealth, they are only going to get better. What the fans are worried about is whether United can match their investment or not, which ideally if there were no Glazers, we could have. United were once the “IT” club. In the last 3 years, United has been rejected by Ozil, Benzema, Nasri, Villa, Paul Pogba (the best rated product of the academy) and now most probably is going to be by Hazard. And as for United winning trophies under Glazers and i am making a very valid point here, majority of the players who formed the backbone of those teams were bought before the Glazer era with the exception of Vidic and Evra. I think you are delusional when you say the club doesn’t belong to the fans and i think every football fan on this planet will agree, a club is nothing without its fans.

some of the thick cunts have no idea about the history of ownership of united so don’t bother.

these wankers don’t even realise that the like of Robert Maxwell (or his son’s to be more accurate) and Rupert Murdoch / BSKY could be in control of United.

MUST was originally a response to BSKYB’s attempted takeover of United. The UK MMMA blocked the bid.

Martin Edward’s father was a friend of Sir Matt’s and acquired the majority stake in the club. His son Martin inherited United but Martin Edwards was not a football fan – he preferred rugby – he also never got on with Fergal.

So, when idiotic fans go on about ownership, they can fuck up because since the 50’s United has always been owned by one family – a friend of Sir Matt’s acquired the club for leisure. Martin did well, but did not get on with Fergal.

Martin wanted to sell to a property developer but that fell through, the deal with Maxwell (God forbid!) fell through.

The law intervened when Murdocj acquired it.

Bonehead fans should also realise that it was Edwards and the board that decided to float United. It was Martin’s club – and before that his fathers! It was a simply as selling a car or your arse.

Which is exactly what Edwards did – he realised his profit and floated the cunt. This is when it got interested. McManus and Magnier built up huge blocking stakes for the sole reason that it was blindingly obvious that United with it’s success and the growth of football as empire and brand, would be bought out.

McManus and Magnier sold their stock to Malcolm Glazer. The Glazer family simply then bought out all the shareholders and took United private – just has Martin’s father Louis Edwards.

So if you want to blame someone blame Louis Edwards, JP McManus, Magnier, Martin Edwards – and thank fuck Maxwell and Murdock never got their hands on it.

As for the lumps who think the Glazers should have been allowed to buy united with a loan. Fuck off – so countless individuals in the world have no right to get a mortgage to buy a house! Same thing – if a bank trust you, they give you the money. The extent of delusion is astonishing.

You act is if you have a God given right to direct, steward or shape the club.

You have fuck all rights, the best thing you can do is stop consuming. In the same way that Martin Edards and the Irish horseowners decided to cash in and quit, fans should do the same. Simple as that.

How people can get emotional and wound up about bollocks like ownership as if they have any relevance to anything is beyond me. Read a book, go to the gym, quit smoking, improve your life, your home, your family, but FFS, some fat ginget bearded cunts have bought something you don’t like and you spend your lives on these boards looking for ways to let of steam. just let it go – save your money, life is too short.

Whatever one thinks about the Glazer’s and their ownership of Man United ,its important to remember that they did no wrong at all.

They simply went to the money market and asked to borrow large amounts of money……………their plan was ambitious and took real balls to carry out.

I didn’t see anyone else in the market trying to buy the biggest club in the world.

Also under their ownership the club has prospered,I know they have too, but that’s the whole point of businesses.They exist to make money,The Glazers are astute business people with an eye for a profit.

All this talk of Glazers out etc is a complete nonsense.Its like someone borrowing the money to buy a car they need for their business,and then customers of that business trying to tell the owner what to do with the business.

It’s laughable really……….its a child like rant brought on by the fact that lots of United fans have only just realised how vulnerable the club was to take over.

Most genuine fans who had money invested in Man united made good profit out of the Glazers take over bid,as the Glazers payed good money for the existing shares.

ask yourself why the Arabs at City are prepared to invest heavily in premiership football?The answer is Premiership football is a huge way to promote products globally over night.The Man united brand being the biggest and most successful of them all.

The Glazers went straight to the top of the market when they bought Man United,football is a business linked to results on the pitch.United’s owners will be very aware of this fact.Citys owners have just about caught up with united in the results stakes,its taken 4 years though and lots of dough.

Now they have to try and turn themselves into a popular global marketing vehicle……..and this is where they may well struggle.

They have no history worth mentioning,they have only oil rich backers…….who could walk away anytime they want to.They are in this to promote and reinvest their oil revenues for the future. Not because they love city as City fans seem to think.

The Glazers know they can sell to Arabs as and when they choose to.The Glazers are brilliant at marketing and will sell United to young world class players ,everyone knows the brand….. Man United and what they
stand for,exciting attacking football,they entertain and play with flair.Many have tried to better
themselves by leaving Old Trafford only to realise later they had left the bet club in the world.

When the Glazers bought United they knew exactly what they were purchasing,they also knew it was unrivaled as a product of its type.

Nothing has changed, the Glazers will hit back through Ferguson and his finely honed management skills.

On a bad year, plagued with injuries to key players and forced to commit inexperienced young players to the cause……..United managed a poor second position in the league!!!!!! On level points with the eventual winners 89 points,in a year where everyone said United are not playing well.lol!

I look forward to the coming year when United will undoubtedly bring in fresh unproven talent,we can then all watch as this talent develops and molds itself into the team,complementing the existing proven talent and helping to claw back that “massive 8 goal difference that cost United so much this year.

The Glazers have a lot to answer for.But I am sure they will put sentiment to one side and give every assistance to their world class manager in his efforts to make Old Trafford impregnable once again.
After all it is their business that has failed so miserably, scoring only 89 points in the league,shame on them.

Nobody is claiming legal impropriety so let’s skip this whole bit about “doing no wrong” and the bizarre car buying analogy or the argument about United always “being vulnerable to takeover”. So what?

The charge is that they’ve unnecessarily hampered United’s ability to compete. I think £525 million spent on debt related costs has done that as evidenced by the reduced net transfer spend during the past 6 years compared to the previous 6 years (average of £17m v £7.5m net in a rising market).

Or to put that another way, the PLC spent about £62m on dividends in 14 years – United spent more than that on debt in the past 9 months.

The Glazers did not go “to the top of the market” – United’s revenues are the world’s third largest – and they did it on 75% leverage. But while we’re talking about revenue growth let’s discuss about “brilliant” they really have been. The increase in United’s revenues has come from 3 sources – rising ticket prices, rising TV revenue, rising commercial income.

– If you think the 45% rise in ticket prices is brilliant, then ok, you can pat them on the back for that
– Media income is pooled both in England, Europe and globally – the Glazers did nothing to increase this
– Commercial income has increased from about £55m to £100m annually – but then the average shirt sponsorship/commercial deal has increased across the whole market, so the real relative ‘benefit’ of the Glazers is much less when put in context with our competition. Perhaps half that rise. Is £525m spent on debt related costs really worth £30m of extra commercial income per year?

But ‘revenue is vanity and profit is sanity’ so that’s all fatuous anyway. So let’s talk about the real crux – United’s profit because its profit that allows the club to invest in players and remain competition. And profit is … well…. absolutely nothing.

Another way of looking at this – if United were to IPO tomorrow the price-to-earnings ratio would be 0x. Shareholders would get no dividend, which is why the IPO hasn’t happened. Or to put this another way the Glazers have to cut debt and costs to pay a dividend post IPO. Debt may be cut through proceeds (or may not) but it’s quite likely that the market investment in transfers and wages will be stagnant post IPO in order to pay the premium dividend the dual track share structure requires.

Brilliant, as you say. Or not.

Finally – 89 points. So what? Is that good, because I see no silverware for it. The value of points is winning the title. Pointing to 89 just makes you sound like a Scouser. Next you’ll be lauding United’s history and heritage as the real goal rather than trophies… oh wait, no, that’s David Gill.

Maybe the Glazer family doesn’t have that much going for them in that the Manchester United faithful want them out but surely they do deserve more credit than they have been given. Surely nearly 4 Premiership titles in 5 years and 3 Champions League finals (more finals than we had got to in our history before the Glazers came to our club) in 4 years has warranted some kind of praise for the unpopular owners?

Commenter said:
When i started reading the post and the comments, i was quite livid with the accusations made at Ferguson but i think some of the arguments made especially by the Ed and Alfonso have changed my opinion. United was a footballing superpower, up there with the very best. Even now they are most valuable club in the world and their revenues are in the top 3 year in, year out. Doesn’t it bother you one bit that as a football institution, as pointed by Alfonso, United is being raped by the Glazers and you ask us just to accept the ownership? The quality of football has been declining, United are more and more becoming a team associated with grit. I think Alfonso has got it bang on. Doesn’t it affect you that the revenue generated by the club (paid by the fans) is not reinvested in the club but used to pay the interest payments of the Glazer family who don’t respect United as a club but see it as a profit making commodity? All the more baffling is that the man who made us a superpower is now a supporter of the parasites.

Give it up Mate… not your hatred of the Glazers… that is completely understandable… but arguing with those two, John and Dannii… you’d be better off trying to explain astrophysics to worms.

Especially Dannii, who thinks a lame history lesson on the past couple of owners, justifies the detestable rule of the current ones… and since he is so obviously a financial know-it-all, that qualifies him to insult anyone who disagrees.

I wouldn’t put much stock in his opinion though, as Dannii is a Glazer fanboy… I suspect he’s got a photoshopped poster on his bedroom wall, of Mephitical Malcolm, reclined on a pile of money, wanking like fuck, ready to blow his wad all over a United shirt.

Dannii… since you’re in the mood for insults… you’re easily the most loathesome, ignorant cunt to ever visit United Rant… your argument is pointless, and completely ignores what really pisses everyone off… but that doesn’t really matter to you, does it? Because all you really want is the opportunity to toss out a few home made insults, and carry on like you’re the Hunter S. Thompson of Rant… Dennis Wise is more like.

The latest news is Hazard wants to come to Old Trafford and is as we speak making his mind up.He has been offered by United to be the highest paid player in the world!!!!!!!!

He has also been told he would be viewed as the main player which the new team would be built around……….he has stated he wants to play every week and does not want to join the ever growing squad which exists at Manchester City.

Chelsea have also come into the bidding,but Hazard is said to favour Man Utd.Not everyone is motivated purely by money……………..some want to be apart of an institution like Manchester United.

Whether he comes to OT or not, it shows Man Utd can still compete with the oil rich Arab owned noisy neighbours.

Commenter said:
The latest news is Hazard wants to come to Old Trafford and is as we speak making his mind up.He has been offered by United to be the highest paid player in the world!!!!!!!!
He has also been told he would be viewed as the main player which the new team would be built around……….he has stated he wants to play every week and does not want to join the ever growing squad which exists at Manchester City.
Chelsea have also come into the bidding,but Hazard is said to favour Man Utd.Not everyone is motivated purely by money……………..some want to be apart of an institution like Manchester United.
Whether he comes to OT or not, it shows Man Utd can still compete with the oil rich Arab owned noisy neighbours.

“He has been offered by United to be the highest paid player in the world!”
That one line makes complete bollocks out of the rest of that post.
Never happen… even if United COULD afford it… they wouldn’t do it… why would any club make that kind of offer to any player… outside of perhaps Messi or Ronaldo… especially a 21 year old, ffs.
Bollocks!

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

I’m not saying he couldn’t you numpty… I don’t BELIEVE he will… but of course it’s possible…

… in a different universe.

But anyway, he’d have to want to play for United, over the chance to make more money… because United quite simply can not offer him the best wages… and your statement that United is willing to make him, ” the highest paid player in the world!!!!!!!!”… is just ridiculous… and if you honestly believe that… then you’re the one who needs to see a doctor Mate.

You are showing us all just how lacking in judgement you really are…….Man United can offer big wages due to imaging rights.Being the biggest name in club football the world has ever seen means United can link top players to products on a world wide basis.This alone can produce massive amounts of money through selling the rights to large global companies wishing to be linked to top players at Man United.

There are many ways to make players wealthy at Old Trafford……..our players are not linked to the price of crude oil as some are.

Alfonso Bedoya said:
I’m not saying he couldn’t you numpty… I don’t BELIEVE he will… but of course it’s possible…

… in a different universe.

But anyway, he’d have to want to play for United, over the chance to make more money… because United quite simply can not offer him the best wages… and your statement that United is willing to make him, ” the highest paid player in the world!!!!!!!!”… is just ridiculous… and if you honestly believe that… then you’re the one who needs to see a doctor Mate.

19 and Counting said:
Yeah I had a good laugh at those comments as well. John =

He is rants bungling buffoon. Even the uncle has slapped him down. Let him continue arguing with himself.

He spent four years arguing that Jose mourinho was overrated! He spent five years believing that Anderson would come good as a player. He promised us that Mancini would get the sack. You can always rely on bonehead to give us a laugh.

danniitronix said:
He is rants bungling buffoon. Even the uncle has slapped him down. Let him continue arguing with himself.
He spent four years arguing that Jose mourinho was overrated! He spent five years believing that Anderson would come good as a player. He promised us that Mancini would get the sack. You can always rely on bonehead to give us a laugh.

Good grief…
I love making you look stupid… but it’s getting ridiculous now.
When you start making a fool out of yourself like this… it’s just not fun anymore.
He was agreeing with me, dickhead.
Do try and keep up.

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

Everyone mentions our league performance but very relevant is our very below par performance in all other competitions. Our par performance is a CL semi final and a final in either the Fa or league cup. Group stages, qf and 5 round exits just aren’t good enough. SAF clearly prioritised the league knowing his resources were thin. The loss to city on Gd merely masks things.

Bill said:
Everyone mentions our league performance but very relevant is our very below par performance in all other competitions. Our par performance is a CL semi final and a final in either the Fa or league cup. Group stages, qf and 5 round exits just aren’t good enough. SAF clearly prioritised the league knowing his resources were thin. The loss to city on Gd merely masks things.

There’s no doubt that our form in Europe was shocking. People look at our league position and think that we aren’t far off because we were level on points with City. Lest we forget how we got dumped out of the CL group stage by Basel and embarrassed by Bilbao. We have to compete both in the EPL and in Europe and we are going to struggle unless we add some quality this summer.

Ed said:
John – your comment is littered with so much smoke it’s embarrassing.

Nobody is claiming legal impropriety so let’s skip this whole bit about “doing no wrong” and the bizarre car buying analogy or the argument about United always “being vulnerable to takeover”. So what?

The charge is that they’ve unnecessarily hampered United’s ability to compete. I think £525 million spent on debt related costs has done that as evidenced by the reduced net transfer spend during the past 6 years compared to the previous 6 years (average of £17m v £7.5m net in a rising market).

Or to put that another way, the PLC spent about £62m on dividends in 14 years – United spent more than that on debt in the past 9 months.

The Glazers did not go “to the top of the market” – United’s revenues are the world’s third largest – and they did it on 75% leverage. But while we’re talking about revenue growth let’s discuss about “brilliant” they really have been. The increase in United’s revenues has come from 3 sources – rising ticket prices, rising TV revenue, rising commercial income.

– If you think the 45% rise in ticket prices is brilliant, then ok, you can pat them on the back for that
– Media income is pooled both in England, Europe and globally – the Glazers did nothing to increase this
– Commercial income has increased from about £55m to £100m annually – but then the average shirt sponsorship/commercial deal has increased across the whole market, so the real relative ‘benefit’ of the Glazers is much less when put in context with our competition. Perhaps half that rise. Is £525m spent on debt related costs really worth £30m of extra commercial income per year?

But ‘revenue is vanity and profit is sanity’ so that’s all fatuous anyway. So let’s talk about the real crux – United’s profit because its profit that allows the club to invest in players and remain competition. And profit is … well…. absolutely nothing.

Another way of looking at this – if United were to IPO tomorrow the price-to-earnings ratio would be 0x. Shareholders would get no dividend, which is why the IPO hasn’t happened. Or to put this another way the Glazers have to cut debt and costs to pay a dividend post IPO. Debt may be cut through proceeds (or may not) but it’s quite likely that the market investment in transfers and wages will be stagnant post IPO in order to pay the premium dividend the dual track share structure requires.

Brilliant, as you say. Or not.

Finally – 89 points. So what? Is that good, because I see no silverware for it. The value of points is winning the title. Pointing to 89 just makes you sound like a Scouser. Next you’ll be lauding United’s history and heritage as the real goal rather than trophies… oh wait, no, that’s David Gill.

Must comment post above. Great post!

Back to the 89 points – I really don’t see how that can be of any relevance whatsoever, much less as source of pride.

I could care less, and I would imagine 99% of Man Utd fans agree with me, if we get 89 points or 100 points or 39 points. As long as we finish 1 point above whoever is second.

Plus, I think by any other reasonable assessment Man Utd had a very very poor year

1) Knocked out of CL at group stage
2) Knocked out of cups fairly early
3) Although we finished respectable second on goal difference, that was at least partly, if not mostly, due to City choking a bit under pressure

Personally, I dont particularly mind that Glazer owns United. My one charge against Glazers is what Ed mentioned above: that their LBO has hampered United’s ability to compete in the transfer market, which is a critical piece of our fundamental competitiveness.

The post above is mostly fiction,he talks of dividend payments…………but the Glazer’s own all the shares,so who would be entitled to a dividend?

Manchester United is one of the wealthiest and most widely supported football teams in the world. As of April 2012, the club is number one in Forbes magazine’s annual ranking of the world’s 50 most valuable sports teams, valued at £1.4 billion.[10] After being floated on the London Stock Exchange in 1991, the club was purchased by Malcolm Glazer in May 2005 in a deal valuing the club at almost £800 million.[11]

The Glazers are reported to have revived their plans to partially float Manchester United in Asia due to improving market conditions.

Their initial plans were shelved last year, partly because of the impact of the eurozone crisis, but it is thought that their advisers now believe there is a window of opportunity to list the club on the Singapore stock exchange before the start of the new season in August.

By selling between 25 and 30 per cent of the shares, the Glazers hope to raise between £400m and £600m, a move that could value United at up to £1.6 billion.

The view being given from the Glazers is that this is simply a move to reduce United’s net debt which stood at £439m for the year ending December 2011. This would drastically cut interest payments and make the club £50m a year better off. That would be the equivalent of two world class signings or a third of the wage bill.

Of course if the money was used to make dividend payments, the potential benefits would not be realised, Most leading companies on the Singapore exchange do pay dividends. Such a move would rekindle resentment among fans at the Glazers which has died off somewhat against the background of this season’s success on the pitch.

In total about £480m has been spent on interest, fees and debt repayments since the Glazers took over in 2005 once corporation tax savings of £100m have been taken into account. To put this in perspective, Sir Alex Ferguson’s net spend since then has been only £67m. This perhaps demonstrates how much difference can be made by a good manager (and a good youth policy).

Of course there is always the qustion of what happens when he leaves. But by that time United will be unrivalled by any club in Britain in terms of spending power given that Chelsea and Manchester City will increasingly be constrained by the financial fair play rules.

We will see, if you marked the season what would you give it? 7/10 for me.

I just can’t see us buying the players who will make a difference. We will buy one starter (Kagawa), one squad player (Clyne) and one future investment (Powell). Not sure if it will be enough, especially when City and Chelsea have large funds at their disposal and can pay big wages.

“The post above is mostly fiction,he talks of dividend payments…………but the Glazer’s own all the shares,so who would be entitled to a dividend?”

What the fuck is that?

That has got to be the most retarded response to a valid point, I’ve ever seen in my life!

Ed pointed out, quite reasonably… that the total cost of dividend payments in the 6 years previous to the Glazers takeover, was £62mill… which is a hell of a lot less than the £500mill the Glazers have squandered on interest payments, over the same length of time!

What on earth has the Glazer’s debts got to do with United’s profitabilty and marketability? Nothing at all.How they raise their finance is their business.They are paying their debts and running their business.

Life under the Glazers has been acceptable,still the richest club in the world.

The Glazers are reported to have revived their plans to partially float Manchester United in Asia due to improving market conditions.

Their initial plans were shelved last year, partly because of the impact of the eurozone crisis, but it is thought that their advisers now believe there is a window of opportunity to list the club on the Singapore stock exchange before the start of the new season in August.

By selling between 25 and 30 per cent of the shares, the Glazers hope to raise between £400m and £600m, a move that could value United at up to £1.6 billion.

The view being given from the Glazers is that this is simply a move to reduce United’s net debt which stood at £439m for the year ending December 2011. This would drastically cut interest payments and make the club £50m a year better off. That would be the equivalent of two world class signings or a third of the wage bill.

Of course if the money was used to make dividend payments, the potential benefits would not be realised, Most leading companies on the Singapore exchange do pay dividends. Such a move would rekindle resentment among fans at the Glazers which has died off somewhat against the background of this season’s success on the pitch.

In total about £480m has been spent on interest, fees and debt repayments since the Glazers took over in 2005 once corporation tax savings of £100m have been taken into account. To put this in perspective, Sir Alex Ferguson’s net spend since then has been only £67m. This perhaps demonstrates how much difference can be made by a good manager (and a good youth policy).

Of course there is always the qustion of what happens when he leaves. But by that time United will be unrivalled by any club in Britain in terms of spending power given that Chelsea and Manchester City will increasingly be constrained by the financial fair play rules.

Good grief!

I’m starting to think your on the wind up here Mate.

Because surely no one could write that lunacy… and actually believe it!

Manchester United got one over on Spanish giants Real Madrid and Barcelona when the Forbes rich list was announced earlier today, with the magazine once again rating the English champions as the most valuable club on the planet.

The Red Devils’ estimated £1.4 billion worth means their value is also greater than the New York Yankees baseball team and the Dallas Cowboys American Football team, and cements the club’s place at the very top of the sporting hierarchy.

Arsenal’s £800 million valuation places them in fourth on the list behind Real Madrid and Barcelona, whilst Chelsea (£473m) and Liverpool (£385m) are placed well in seventh and eighth respectively.

Commenter said:
What on earth has the Glazer’s debts got to do with United’s profitabilty and marketability? Nothing at all.How they raise their finance is their business.They are paying their debts and running their business.

Life under the Glazers has been acceptable,still the richest club in the world.

You really are stupid…….as a fan of any club you spend money on your clubs shirts etc,that’s how all clubs make money.So why should the Glazer’s be any different?

Ticket receipts media,imaging rights,catering shirt sales abroad,all these things produce money for the Glazers club Manchester United!!!!!!!! Thats the real world,that is fact.You are living in a fantasy world where nobody owns United and God provides money for new players.You really are so far out of touch with reality,are you in mental hospital

Commenter said:
You really are stupid…….as a fan of any club you spend money on your clubs shirts etc,that’s how all clubs make money.So why should the Glazer’s be any different?

Ticket receipts media,imaging rights,catering shirt sales abroad,all these things produce money for the Glazers club Manchester United!!!!!!!! Thats the real world,that is fact.You are living in a fantasy world where nobody owns United and God provides money for new players.You really are so far out of touch with reality,are you in mental hospital

Grow up, Manchester United have enjoyed unbelievable success over recent years……….they lose the title by a difference of 8 goals and all you fair weather fans come sneeking out with their long knives.True fans do not behave the way you lot do on here.

Man city will be back in their box next year,they have been desperately lucky to win the title.United handed it to them on a plate after the Everton game,3-1 up and 4-2 up with 7 minutes to go.

I disagree,United have been a success under the Glazers ownership.That is undisputable,City raised the bar this season…………………I fully expect United and the Glazers to respond……………really they already have responded as amassing 89 points with a makeshift team is a credit to the lads and Sir Alex.

The ball is in the Glazers court.I expect they will rise to the challenge and silence their doubters once again.EDEN HAZARD HAS AGREED TERMS WITH ALL 3 CLUBS,THAT SUGGESTS UNITED HAVE OFFERED AS GOOD A DEAL AS ANY OF THE OTHERS.Its just a matter of where he decides to go now.

FFS John… you really are taking the piss now.
Where does this ignorant, and naive support of the Glazers come from?
What is it, that you THINK you know about them, that gives you such misplaced optimism?
In other words… WHY do you talk so much shit?
Do you know anything at all about their ownership of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers?
Do you know that the Glazers are just as loathed by the Bucs fans, as Uniteds?
Why do you suppose that is?
Read…http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/glazers-statement-does-little-to-reassure-tampa-bay-buccaneers-fans/1100764http://www.bucsnation.com/2012/1/16/2711097/are-the-glazers-hurting-the-tampa-bay-buccaneers-chances-of-findinghttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/8138259/Tampa-Bay-Buccaneers-leaky-finances-leave-Glazer-family-in-choppy-waters.html
…
The Glazers DO NOT CARE ABOUT TROPHIES or TITLES!
Their focus is MONEY… that’s it!
Their reputation is well founded over many years…
Running a sports club, has NEVER been a very profitable business venture… that’s why it’s almost always the plaything of the super rich… they can afford to run it, without worrying about it being the thing that makes them any money.
United is a rare exception… it actually makes more money than it needs to be successful… the Glazers saw that, and like the parasites that they are… leeched on to it, and immediately started sucking all that extra cash out of it.
The Glazers WILL NOT SPEND ANY MORE THAN IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. They will be perfectly happy to see United as a second or third place team in England, and quarter/semi finalists in the Champs league and the domestic cups… as long as the FANS,(suckers) LIKE YOU… continue to buy their overpriced tickets and merchandise… that’s it… end of.
So you can talk an endless streak of shit about what YOU THINK the Glazers are going to spend money on… supporting Sir Alex and his “89 points, but won fuck all team*…
History, more underinvestment, and cold hard facts will show you up to be a fool.

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

Hardly. Pre Glazers United could buy the best players in the world, now we can’t. The modern day Rooneys and Ferdinands who have been instrumental in our success now go to City. Are you telling me than if we matched or beat the fee and wages of City for Aguero, Toure, Silva and Nasri they wouldn’t have come to OT. One of those at United last season and we would have won the league. If we get Hazard then they have finally realised we can’t be cheap if we are serious about winning trophies.

United` have never been cheap ever!and never will be,United threw the league away when they tossed it off against Everton,3-1 and 4-2 remember/thats when the league title was literally thrown away.

All the super star City players you mention had already done their best,and it wasn’t good enough.They were dead and buried.

So don’t give that crap about we would have won the league if we had signed other players……it just ain’t true,the league was won and tossed of 5 games out by stupidity and inexperience. City were handed a life line.And they could still only manage to win it on goal difference.United will butcher them next season believe me!ps go and buy a city shirt you sad bastard.

Running a sports club, has NEVER been a very profitable business venture… that’s why it’s almost always the plaything of the super rich… they can afford to run it, without worrying about it being the thing that makes them any money.

United is a rare exception… it actually makes more money than it needs to be successful… the Glazers saw that, and like the parasites that they are… leeched on to it, and immediately started sucking all that extra cash out of it.

The Glazers WILL NOT SPEND ANY MORE THAN IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. They will be perfectly happy to see United as a second or third place team in England, and quarter/semi finalists in the Champs league and the domestic cups… as long as the FANS,(suckers) LIKE YOU… continue to buy their overpriced tickets and merchandise… that’s it… end of.

So you can talk an endless streak of shit about what YOU THINK the Glazers are going to spend money on… supporting Sir Alex and his “89 points, but won fuck all team*…

History, more underinvestment, and cold hard facts will show you up to be a fool.

Nothing to do with they beating us home and away then! They were the better side and if they keep the same key players then start to get some playing chemistry then we really are stuffed. And Toure won’t be off on ACON next season either! Delusional! Are you aren’t from Liverpool?!

I see you have the City supporters mentality,beat United and the league is ours,LOL!

City beat united home and away prior to this season,and won nothing at all.Stop worrying about city the can only play 11 men at a time,and it matters not who is on the bench.

Also City will find it hard this coming season as teams park the proverbial bus in order to frustrate them.Look how they struggled to beat QPR,Worst away record in the league and with ten men they went in front against city.

Contrary to the conventional wisdom on these pages lead by chief Bonehead himself, Mancini is a top young manager. His mindgames defeated Taggart, he brought back Tevez who was excellent and he got his players playing like a team unlike our 8m a year shrek look alike who shat his pants.

Mancini will come back evwn stronger. He will learn and his players work for him. Only an arse would think otherwise.

Don’t waste your time Knobby… you’ll only end up on his shit list… then you’ll really be in trouble… he might even start calling you “bonehead”… fuck me… the torment… I haven’t had a decent nights sleep in weeks…

You are overlooking the fact that for many of citeh’s players, it is their first season. Mancini is still young and learning. They will buy more players. They will be a better team and and will learn more, be more organised.

Taggart talked about being up for the challenge – this is the biggest one yet. He ultimately triumphed ober that “overrated” manager jose, he can do mancini too but only if taggart admits and corrects his errors.

Some fool, how many titles has he won?and how many has his nearest rival won?

Let City buy all they want,my monies on the finest manager the world has ever seen.

City will not be competing against players who are still wet behind the ears this time.Vidic will be in charge at the back, and United will have the best defence in the Premiership.

Mancini and City were desperately lucky to win the league……United throwing 2 points away at Old Trafford against Everton,Barton getting sent off after Tevez had done a job on him,Qpr relenting near the end when they knew they were staying up,The referee playing an extra 5 minutes when all games were supposed to finish at the same time.
City will find life in the premiership a lot harder this coming season.
Most teams will now park the bus,something they will not be used to,and points will be dropped as a result.

There is nothing new by the way about City beating United home and away……they did it before and won nowt!!.Fergy did what he could, selecting from a seriously depleted squad most of the season…….and still narrowly missed the title.City should be very afraid next season.

De Gea has played for a number of years in Spain and won a Europa league. Smalling had had a season and a half at the top level. Welbeck came in off a year on loan for a premiership team. Phil Jones had played for Blackburn for two seasons. This aren’t lads plucked from obscurity.

The Lads you mention?how many have been involved in a title run in prior to the one just gone.

Jones was 19 when he arrived,as was De Gea, Jones was playing at Blackburn not top level by any means,he has played in several positions as United were exposed through a massive injury list.

Smalling has no real experience as he was playing none league not that long ago.

All young all still learning,none of them are the finished article just yet.They will all benefit from this seasons experiences,Ferguson has a group of young lads there who are going to get better and better,if he can keep the mix right between experience and youth who knows what they can achieve.

Clevelley never got going this season through injury,but has shown lots of potential. A few well placed signings and United will again become the team they all have to beat.

Big money signings are not the only way to achieve success….Cantona was a bargain and became a marvelously influential player at Old Trafford.

Bill said:
Nothing to do with they beating us home and away then! They were the better side and if they keep the same key players then start to get some playing chemistry then we really are stuffed. And Toure won’t be off on ACON next season either! Delusional! Are you aren’t from Liverpool?!

They beat us home and away in ’08 and we ended up with the league and the Champions League. Those wins would have done nothing to the title race if we had held on to a win against Everton at HOME.

City were gifted the title by the inexperience of youth,they will not be able to rely on such generosity in future.

And beating the team with the worst away record in the league,by the smallest of margins, whilst playing with ten men ,having gone behind at home initially.

Will do nothing to evoke fear in the teams that will in future visit The council house they call Etihad.

6 points and 5 goals difference numpty,would not have mattered at all if United had not gifted Everton 2 points.

To beat your main rivals both home and away should really mean something,but it shows you how far behind city really are when they still can’t win the league in their own right, without having to rely on the same rivals slipping up.Winning any league on goal difference can hardly be called a resounding victory.I notice city only shine when playing ten men.

As we were discussing United’s financial structure and present worth.It sprang to mind that City’s position in the financial league is rather more precarious than United’s.

City cannot even use the stadium they play in as an asset as it’s owned by Manchester council ,built with eec money for the commonwealth games.

Players as we all know lose value with age and therefore cannot be considered as assets.So if the Arabs decide they don’t like football anymore exactly what will they have to sell? Nothing it seems ,like Leeds United found out when they over invested in a rented stadium.The team broke up and the club went into free fall.

I have to say I would feel far more secure with The Glazers at the helm than relying on a group of bedouins who not that long ago were trading in Camels and living in tents in the desert.

I read City’s owners have already said they don’t need to pay the big wages now as they feel they have the basics of a good premiership winning team.At least United do have assets to sell,City on the other hand rely on the generosity of its Arabs owners,who could if they so desired break up the team and start using the ground as a camel trading auction,to be held twice a month.

Come to think of it it’s the only way they may have a chance get rid of Tevez!!!!!!!

So… since the Glazers took over… we don’t compete for the top players any more… that’s what.
Quit being such an odious little cunt John… you may like United under Glazers rules… but the vast majority of us don’t… foe very well defined reasons.
Quit manipulating the FACTS to support your stupid argument… you’ve got an opinion that the Glazers are great… good for you, stick to that and be happy… but quit talking shit, trying to convince everyone else… it boring and it’s bullshit!

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

Commenter said:
City were gifted the title by the inexperience of youth,they will not be able to rely on such generosity in future.

And beating the team with the worst away record in the league,by the smallest of margins, whilst playing with ten men ,having gone behind at home initially.

Will do nothing to evoke fear in the teams that will in future visit The council house they call Etihad.

6 points and 5 goals difference numpty,would not have mattered at all if United had not gifted Everton 2 points.

To beat your main rivals both home and away should really mean something,but it shows you how far behind city really are when they still can’t win the league in their own right, without having to rely on the same rivals slipping up.Winning any league on goal difference can hardly be called a resounding victory.I notice city only shine when playing ten men.

You see… there you go again… talking complete shit… FUCK OFF!!!

You keep going on about City… “NEARLY”… losing to QPR… and that, in your opinion shows City up as jammy bastards… THEY WON IN THE END YOU FUCKIN MEAT HEAD!

If you want to make such spurious arguments to support your nonsense… then let’s not forget Blackburn… shitty fuckin Blackburn, who finished second from bottom… beat United on our patch… what does that tell you?

I love taking on the forum bully’s,the ones like you who can’t stand having their opinions challenged.As`soon as someone challenges you you revert to the foul and abusive language hoping that will deter those you chastise from posting.

In typical bully fashion, you try and recruit the other posters to join you in attack the opinions of others who don’t agree with your blanket totally unfounded hate of a person you have never met.Your a proper Untermensch!

The core of the post 2005 league winning sides were purchased or developed pre Glazer. The culture of winning was developed in the 90s and early 2000s. SAF is more experienced as a manager. These are the things that meant we continued to win, not the Glazers ownership.

Net spend under the Glazers less than 10 mill a season!!! Appalling! We are only pushing the boat out for Hazard because City won the league, we were very poor in the Champions League and everyone saying we have no money is poor PR for the brand of MUFC.

If we had spent 25 mill on a CM last season we would have won the league.

Commenter said:
I haven’t even started yet Untermensch!
I love taking on the forum bully’s,the ones like you who can’t stand having their opinions challenged.As`soon as someone challenges you you revert to the foul and abusive language hoping that will deter those you chastise from posting.
In typical bully fashion, you try and recruit the other posters to join you in attack the opinions of others who don’t agree with your blanket totally unfounded hate of a person you have never met.Your a proper Untermensch!

Shows what you know, you snivelling little Nazi… I talk like this all the time… not just when I’m putting slimy little bigots like you in their place.
Your opinion isn’t the issue here… everyones got one… even little Nazis believe what they write.
It’s the lies and misinformation that’s the problem…
You can’t just come out with this ridiculous point,(and many others just like it)… “You say they are not after top players…….but they have agreed terms with Hazard!!!”… and honestly think that qualifies the Glazers as “good guys”
First of all… agreeing terms means absolutely nothing!… actually signing the player is what counts… I mean that’s right up there with, QPR “ALMOST” beat City…
We’ve been doing this same dance with top players ever since the Glazers took over… last year it was Sneijder… but for some reason, *cough*… we never get the deal done… and I’m betting we won’t again this year.
STOP TALKING SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

It has been highly publicised about the amount of debt that the American owners have saddled onto the club and it has also been highly publicised how much the fans are discontent with this situation, more so when the club had to sell their most prized asset Cristiano Ronaldo for a record £80million transfer fee to service the debts. So why does the title say that the Glazers are good for Manchester United?
Nearly 4 league titles in 5 years and 3 Champions League finals in 4 years. That is why. There is absolutely no denying that this is one of the most successful periods in the club’s history.
Surely the Glazers must have something to do with this success right? I put it mainly down to the total freedom given to Sir Alex Ferguson. Unlike most other owners, the Glazers do not interfere. Sir Alex Ferguson does what he wants, when he wants and if he needs to be supported in the transfer market, the Glazers usually give their thumbs up.
When the Glazers took over, our club was still contracted with Kleberson! Clearly they saw the need to rebuild the team and that is exactly what has happened.
They’ve sanctioned quite a lot of big money transfers in their time too. Berbatov was of course a £30.75million signing. Common knowledge. But there have also been 5 other transfers during the Glazers reign that have had a price tag of over £15million, namely Carrick, Hargreaves, Anderson, Nani and Valencia. Some may argue that this has been funded by the departure of former World Player of the Year Cristiano Ronaldo but the claims from the management is that this money is still in the bank waiting to be spent, hopefully on Ronaldo (one can dream).
Nevertheless buying a whole team of Joleon Lescotts for stupid amounts like £24million isn’t the Manchester United way and never will be. Manchester United is a club of values, traditions and hard work and so having players like Lescott who are almost mercenary is not what I would like to see at the club ever. Having a rich billionaire owner who imprints his lack of footballing knowledge all over the club, a la Abramovich, just wouldn’t cut it for me.
At least the way that Manchester United are currently spending money means we sign decent human beings who join us for the prestige of being at the biggest and the best club in the world rather than following the money. Players who join us come for the trophies, the achievements, not the bank balance. It is clear to see that our super signing Javier Hernandez is probably one of the most humble and grateful human beings in the world.
Chris Smalling, another revelation in the centre of our defence doesn’t look like a player who will ever demand stupid sums of money! If Bébé does somehow become the best player in the world, I’m pretty sure he won’t be giving any ultimatums on wage demands either. In fact he’d probably still go back to his orphanage to stay there as he has done from time to time this season.
I’d rather we sign these kinds of players with massive potential and teach them the Manchester United way than signing unproven players such as Lescott and Dzeko, who are basically half way through their career and have won nothing in their life, who come to the club automatically on a 6 figure a week sum to sit on the bench.
Maybe the Glazer family doesn’t have that much going for them in that the Manchester United faithful want them out but surely they do deserve more credit than they have been given. Surely nearly 4 Premiership titles in 5 years and 3 Champions League finals (more finals than we had got to in our history before the Glazers came to our club) in 4 years has warranted some kind of praise for the unpopular owners?

Maybe the Glazer family doesn’t have that much going for them in that the Manchester United faithful want them out but surely they do deserve more credit than they have been given. Surely nearly 4 Premiership titles in 5 years and 3 Champions League finals (more finals than we had got to in our history before the Glazers came to our club) in 4 years has warranted some kind of praise for the unpopular owners?

My only point Bill is the Glazers have not been that bad so far for Manchester United.

The slagging off they take is totally undeserved………..in the context of them being miserly owners.
I know they could not have raised that sort of money in todays climate…….but timing is everything and they saw the chance to borrow all that dough and took the opportunity to own the club. They would never have got the money today,but they saw the chance`and took it.

Like them or not, and not many do like them,they haven’t done a lot wrong as owners.Most of the resentment is jealousy and suprise that someone could pull off such a deal.Its their club and they didn’t buy into mediocrity and I feel they will spend as big as anyone if they think it benefits Man utd genuinely.

Just a small point here Squigs,you say United have gone from the richest club in the world to the most indebted.

That begs the question then when they were the richest,why did they not enjoy the same level of success they have recently under the Glazers?

The reason they were the richest was because they went public creating shares for fans for the public to invest in.
I have to say lots of that cash was wasted on poor purchases,Fergy has made mistakes in the transfer market.

Also we have to accept that having infinite amounts of money for the transfer market does not guarantee the players we want will indeed come.

I find the Glazers are good owners,they have looked for sponsorship in areas previous owners would never have dreamed of looking.Not all the money raised has been through results on the pitch,sponsorship deals have also brought in cash.

I expect United to do well under the Glazers, they are smart and I for one like their policy of not being prepared to over pay for players.
Results on the pitch will always be a priority for them, as they know sponsors and merchandise sales can soon evaporate as success in competions wanes.

The Future is Red!!!! It’s just hard to convince those who see money and expensive signings as the only way forward.

When they use the club to leverage these debts and to pay the debts I consider the debts part of the club.

They are not the biggest selling brand in football. Turnover is less then either Real or Barcelona and commercial income is less then Bayern as well as the big two in Spain.

Surely if they are such a big commercial draw then they should be able to compete with top clubs for the best players.

Shareholders United were against the sale of shares, but remember that the % of actual fans who held shares was miniscule. They had no influence.

The Glazers have used not just to pay club debts but other debts amongst it’s buisness group, this paired with members of the Glazer family taking out directors loans is a cause of concern at a large company and represents poor corporate governance.

The Glazers are the lowest spending earners in the NFL and have accepted mediocrity for a while now. When you see some of the carthorses getting a game at United it’s apparent they won’t pay top dollar.

The money made available for purchases and net spend has been much lower and everyone knows that. £25 mil net spend a year was pledged and it hasn’t happened.

Other clubs are going to the wall of lower debts and United are not too big to fail.

The majority of the cash used by Glazer to purchase Manchester United came in the form of loans, much of which were secured against the club’s assets, incurring interest payments of over £60 million per annum. The remainder came in the form of PIK loans (payment in kind loans), which were later sold to hedge funds. Manchester United is not liable for the PIKs. The PIKs are held by Red Football Joint Venture Ltd and are secured on that company’s shares in Red Football Ltd (and thus the club). If they are not repaid by 2017, the Glazers will almost certainly lose all their shares in Red Football Ltd (and the club) to hedge funds. The interest on these loans rolls up at 14.25% per annum. Despite this, the Glazers did not pay down any of the PIK loans in the first five years they owned the club. In January 2010, the club carried out a successful £500 million bond issue, and as of March 2010, the PIKs stood at around £207 million.[1]

I think you will find the Forbes list still has United as top selling worldwide.

Competion for top players:United have long said they believe in a strong youth system,as evidenced by the successful 1992 crop of players.Prefering to mix experience and youth.But still having a couple of big players obtained through the open market.It makes good business sense to home grow quality players for several reasons.Cost is cheaper,and usually there is resale value for any players you decide not to keep.Buying in the open market is risky and expensive as players do not always live up to their high values.

The Glazers take out money to finance pik loans.They are also allowed to take 50 percent of net profit.

As I said before,under the Glazers United have had their most successful years ever.

As an aside and I don’t mean to try and be insulting when I say this,but why is it every body’s business how United finance themselves. United is a privately owned business,so why do people think they are entitled to know all about how the Glazers finance their business?

United could fail that’s true,but that’s also all the ,more insentive for the Glazers to make sure they have enough talent at the club to enable the team to compete with the best.

I feel on this years showing alone,given all the injuries suffered ,United have done very well indeed.

As I keep saying 89 points and playing with a make shift side for a lot of the season is no mean feat.I expect improvement from the younger players and coupled with new signings United will be very much league leaders for the coming season.

Can we be sure the Arab owners will not vacate the council house and all its dwellers, if the mood should so take them?There are no certainties in life.

e of us who follow the collision of celebrity, sports and business are doomed to an endless stream of statistics. Tiger Woods earned $87 million from endorsements last year, $48 million more than Phil Mickelson, golf’s next-highest earner. Manchester United’s merchandise revenue was $23.6 million, more than any other team in England’s Premiership. Walt Disney’s ESPN charges an average monthly subscription fee of $3.26,

The Glazers have nowt to do with us not winning the title last season. Alf can bleat all day long about them if he wishes. John. You too need to leave that alone.

I have maintained for a while now that our team is not properly set out and it cost us in the key games that cost us the title. The manager was forced to get Scholes out of retirement to supplement the midfield cos two very good reasons: we were short of quality and experienced players in midfield as soon as lost Fletcher and Anderson added by the constant injuries Cleverly was getting; secondly, he does not like shopping in the transfer window so it seemed ok to get Scholes back. What I have quarreled with for years is playing the very same Scholes alongside Carrick in a midfield two. That stubbornness to keep that formation in key games and against teams that line up with more numbers in midfield cost us against Everton.

At the time Scholes was brought back we could have played with three central midfielders more often with Carrick and Pogba alongside him. That would have made us have three naturals in that position. That would have also helped us retain possession more and not make it so easy to get through to our defence as happened in many games. Everton battered us from the start of the game to the end because they had more men in midfield and they were well deserving of their point. We are so easy to play against.

It is a huge testament to the individual qualities of the players we have that we won so many games and so many points with so little coaching/tactical input from the bench. A major reason why I have no time for people who say this was an average United team. These players deserve to have won more with better help. I play back that Everton game back in my mind over and over again and I just could not believe what I was watching. Fellaini had the freedom of Manchester in the role behind our midfielders and just infront of our defenders. Amazingly amateurish from us after so many years. Their wide players kept coming in to supplement the numbers and pushed their full backs well on Hibbert made TWO goals for God’s sake!! And each time he had the time and space to measure a cross because his frontman had dragged us all over the shop. Time and time again it was happening. It was disgraceful.

The tactical ineptitude had NOTHING to do with the Glazers. If we buy Kagawa/Hazard/Senijder or whatever midfielders some of you have in your fantasy leagues, Sir Alex and Phelan will either play them wide or in a midfield duo and those qualities you are all drooling over now will be negated and lost!!

I would agree with most of that,Everton was the day they gifted the league to City.

The forwards scored 4 goals ….so they did their bit.

8 minutes left 4 -2 up and for me lack of concentration and inexperience cost us the goals.

But as I keep saying, 89 points in this league with nearest rivals 19 points adrift in 3rd is not the result of an inept side.

Personally I don’t think there is much wrong at Old Trafford ,a couple of new signings and that should do the trick.

I still feel the lads were desperately unlucky to lose out on goal difference this year.City players can’t sit back on their laurels safe in the knowledge they finished a few points clear of their nearest rivals.

They got the title by the narrowist of margins, and must feel for the money they spent they didn’t have a resounding runaway title win.

I hope next season the lads will have learnt their lesson and will keep their concentration until the final whistle goes.I am sure they won’t want another title thrown away.

I think you will find the Forbes list still has United as top selling worldwide.

It also claims that Manchester United have 330 million fans world wide and values the club on an EBITDA of 13, it’s a over valuation and something which I would be loathe to take seriously.

remainder came in the form of PIK loans (payment in kind loans), which were later sold to hedge funds. Manchester United is not liable for the PIKs. The PIKs are held by Red Football Joint Venture Ltd and are secured on that company’s shares in Red Football Ltd (and thus the club). If they are not repaid by 2017, the Glazers will almost certainly lose all their shares in Red Football Ltd (and the club) to hedge funds.

Red Football LTD is 100% owned by the Glazer family trust and it’s only stream of income is Manchester United. Thus successful repayment would by any reasonable person be considered material to the future of Manchester United