Friday, March 16, 2012

Totally reprehensible! (and this is coming from a lad that used to stick mint toothpicks through his brother’s annoying gourami collection)

Marlins President David Samson says using aquariums as a backstop “screams Miami,” but animal rights activists think it screams animal abuse. Experts on fish wellbeing are undecided on the matter.

First, despite their position in the line of fire, the stadium aquariums won’t bust. According to Mat Roy, president of Living Color Aquariums, which manufactured the tanks, Marlins first baseman Gaby Sanchez helped test their extra-sturdy front panels by hurling baseballs at them. They didn’t crack.

But even if the 100 fish inside the tanks are sure to stay wet, activists have another concern. “I can tell you even if the glass doesn’t shatter, [stadium noise is] going to cause a tremendous vibration and disturb and upset the fish,” Animal Rights Foundation of Florida spokesman Don Anthony told the local press.

To minimize vibrations from a stadium full of rowdy fans, the temperature-controlled aquariums are suspended on a flexible material called neoprene, but activists think that isn’t sufficient. “No matter how many shock absorbers they build into the system, if there are thousands of fans screaming and jumping during a sporting event it’s going to affect the fish in there,” Anthony said.

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I guess they didn't think of putting the fish in another location, and projecting the tanks via TV since, you know, the fish are there to be on TV anyway? The tanks will make great terreria in two years.

Didn't the Miami Dolphins used to have a dolphin mascot named Flipper who'd jump into a tank after every Miami score? I know it must have been a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure I'm not misremembering this.

Didn't the Miami Dolphins used to have a dolphin mascot named Flipper who'd jump into a tank after every Miami score? I know it must have been a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure I'm not misremembering this.

There is something to this complaint. The lateral line on a fish is extremely sensitive to vibration and pressure changes, and is maybe their most important sensory organ. When I was into aquarium fish (25 years ago) it was a matter of faith that you didn't tap hard on the glass of the tank, because that was Bad For The Fish. For some reason.

The point is that it would seem very likely that the noise and vibration of a baseball game would be unpleasant for the fish, though I have no idea if "unpleasant" means "mildly disconcerting" or "deadly" or somewhere in between.

I also have no idea how this translates to practical responsibility. Fish deserve less protection than most all other vertebrates, but they deserve some. If the fish are going to die during every game then the tank is obviously not acceptable. If the fish are just going to get a little piqued during each game, the tank is obviously OK. There's a line somewhere in between there, and #### if I'm going to work out where it is. The Marlins should just run with the current plan, and put a little webcam on the fish tank to see what happens to the little guys during games and go from there.

I also have no idea how this translates to practical responsibility. Fish deserve less protection than most all other vertebrates, but they deserve some. If the fish are going to die during every game then the tank is obviously not acceptable.

Oh that would be great, 7th inning stretch, camera pans over and zooms in on the tank, and you see scores of dead fish floating upside down...

What kind of arm does this guy have, and was he in mid-season form? Seem like a fastball fouled straight back might have more force than this test, especially if the same spot(s) are hit regularly. I suppose this makes me a bad person, but it'd be pretty funny to see the glass break and water gush onto the field.

I have a friend who works as an estate agent. He found a fish in the toilet of a vacated house he was tidying up for a new tenant. Apparently they previous renters had just flushed it down the toilet before they left, but it didn't take. He still has it too, it's fairly big as far as domesticated fish go. Probably just under a foot long. Now that is fish abuse.

I suppose this makes me a bad person, but it'd be pretty funny to see the glass break and water gush onto the field.

You aren't alone. Frankly, I'll be shocked if this DOESN'T happen. Hearing the play by play man describe it has especially high chances of hilarity for either lack of compassion "well this is going to cause a delay" or too much compassion "oh this is awful! Defenseless fish are dying and no one is able to save them!" as bat boys sprint around in a futile attempt to do something.

I suppose this makes me a bad person, but it'd be pretty funny to see the glass break and water gush onto the field.

polycarbonate resin thermoplastic; not gonna happen.

more importantly, isn't this taxpayer-funded? like, millions of dollars in installation and ongoing maintenance taxpayer-funded? shouldn't they have bought miami residents some tickets to games instead?

Apparently they previous renters had just flushed it down the toilet before they left, but it didn't take. He still has it too, it's fairly big as far as domesticated fish go. Probably just under a foot long. Now that is fish abuse.

I have a friend who works as an estate agent. He found a fish in the toilet of a vacated house he was tidying up for a new tenant. Apparently they previous renters had just flushed it down the toilet before they left, but it didn't take. He still has it too, it's fairly big as far as domesticated fish go. Probably just under a foot long. Now that is fish abuse.

When I joined the military I had a small aquarium with a couple of Irridescent *sharks(really catfish more or less from what I understand)My sister took over the aquarium and after about half a year one got real sick and she thought it died and goes to flush it down the toilet, being dumped in the toilet "brought it back to life" and she retrieved it. 7 years later both of the sharks were still alive and kicking(moved into a 200 gallon aquarium as my brother in law got into fish for a while, it got bigger than the same species of fish that the St Louis Zoo has.)

I think Nemo was the best of the animated movies to come out from either Pixar or Disney in the past 15+ years. I loved Robin Williams Genie, but Dorie was possibly the best comic relief/sidekick in animated history.

I think Nemo was the best of the animated movies to come out from either Pixar or Disney in the past 15+ years.

Heeeeeellllll no. I mean I liked Finding Nemo but heeeeellll no.

The first 45 minutes of Wall-E...Toy Story 2...probably The Incredibles...those are great. Especially Toy Story 2. That movie was perfect.

I think my favorite animated movie of the last 15+ years was probably The Iron Giant, though, really. That movie is amazing. Also Kung Fu Panda is seriously underrated. I love the #### out of Kung Fu Panda. I think the only thing that held its reputation back was that it was done by Dreamworks. (Which ruined whatever good karma it gained from that movie by promptly shitting out a panderingly mediocre sequel, purely for financial reasons, and without any of the original creative staff.)

The first 45 minutes of Wall-E...Toy Story 2...probably The Incredibles...those are great. Especially Toy Story 2. That movie was perfect.

45 minutes of Wall-E felt like it took 2 hours and it's closer to art than entertainment. I love the Incredibles, just not nearly as fun. Haven't seen Toy Story 2. The first one was ok, but nothing great, middle of the pack type of movie. (when that pack is Pixar and Disney animation of course. Still a very good movie, just nothing special)

I think my favorite animated movie of the last 15+ years was probably The Iron Giant, though, really. That movie is amazing. Also Kung Fu Panda is seriously underrated. I love the #### out of Kung Fu Panda. I think the only thing that held its reputation back was that it was done by Dreamworks. (Which ruined whatever good karma it gained from that movie by promptly shitting out a panderingly mediocre sequel, purely for financial reasons, and without any of the original creative staff.)

I think Iron Giant is like a reverse Derek Jeter type of movie, underrated by the masses, overrated by the people the "geek" segment. Kung Fu Panda was fun but again nothing special. To be honest the movie probably would have been better if it was longer. It had plenty of sub plots that felt a bit rushed.

Cripes, virtually any movie made by Studio Ghibli blows away any movie made by Pixar or Disney. And really, it's not close...

I'm guessing that is the hipster equivalent to movies. The two movies by them I've seen is massively overrated filler(Spirited away and Castle in the Sky)

The aquarium is one of the most ####### awesome things at any ballpark ever. Quite frankly, that's all you need.

As long as it's not damaging to the fish, I have to agree, but I'm far from a traditionalist in that I think the mallparks are awesome.

I suppose it is relevant to mention "The Cove" since we've broken the glass on film. That movie made me very uncomfortable about how we treat aquatic life in parks and such. It seems like a ####### terrible idea to have all these fish trapped in a tank that will probably make them miserable.

In any case, its not ALL Ghibli films that are fantastic; Ponyo was merely very good, and some of the non-Miyazaki films are only goodish. I actually think Pixar has been on fire lately, with the exception of Cars 2 which I avoided. TS3, Wall-E, and Up were all emotionally affecting in ways that challenge both adults and children. I practically wept at the end of TS3, and Up made me tear up a bit on at least two occasions. I do find it interesting that some of the most politically astute films of the past decade have been animated films (Incredibles-war on terror, Wall-E/TS3/Spirited Away-environment,

So where can I find an official scale about how much I'm supposed to care about various animals and their feelings? I mean, domestic mammals like dogs or cats are obviously pretty high. Horses, too. Cows, sort of, in that I'm supposed to care about their feelings but I eat them anyway.

I would say mammals are pretty high, but I can kill a mouse in my house without too much consternation. Clearly insects are near the bottom since I can put out poison that an ant will carry back to the nest to destroy an entire population. And when I spray for wasps, they seem to die a pretty bad death, falling to the ground and writhing around.

Fish are kind of low, based on watching Madagascar, where they make a big deal about the lion not eating a zebra or a lemur, but at the end the penguins chop up a couple dozen fish for the guy to eat.

Eh, I don't have the energy to argue right now. I will say this, though: I am correct, and everyone else is incorrect. Thread won!

I saw Howl's Moving Castle the other day. It was interesting. I guess I just have to admit that coming from an American standpoint it's difficult to get absorbed in a story like that...I've never really watched Japanese animation, and there are certain idiosyncrasies of the form that make it difficult to get involved in if you're not used to them. It was still well-done though. Looked pretty.

Stupid phone. I was going to also mention Waltz with Bashir. And finish by saying that I thought "How to Train Your Dragon" was really fun if not as interesting as a Pixar film. Hopefully the new Pixar film does a good job making little girls think they are awesome so that we don't have Rick Santorum 2020.

So where can I find an official scale about how much I'm supposed to care about various animals and their feelings? I mean, domestic mammals like dogs or cats are obviously pretty high. Horses, too. Cows, sort of, in that I'm supposed to care about their feelings but I eat them anyway.

I would say mammals are pretty high, but I can kill a mouse in my house without too much consternation.

The irony here is that rodents are more closely related to humans than dogs and cats are.

I think the only thing that held [Kung Fu Panda's] reputation back was that it was done by Dreamworks.

I tried watching it and just couldn't. Too focused on Jack Black's annoying persona, and like most Dreamworks stuff, it seems too pitched to 12-year-olds.

True story - when I was working as a manager for a movie theater back in the late 1990s, I got to attend a studio marketing seminar, where reps from all the major studios were there to talk up their upcoming movies. My boss asked the Dreamworks rep why their movies (this was the summer before Shrek, so we're talking traditional animation still) were always PG instead of G, since he had a small child at the time and was annoyed by the casual "hell" and "damn" type talk in the DW movies. Anyway, the DW rep said that was actually a conscious choice on the part of the studio, to appeal more to the kids who had grown up a little and were looking for entertainment that was a little more edgy.

Now, I've never had a problem with casual "damns", but that sounded like the stupidest thing I'd ever heard in my life. And fairly or not, I've always seen DW movies like that since; I can't help but seeing the self-conscious, cynical attempts to seem edgy to the big kids who don't want to be treated like babies.

Hopefully the new Pixar film does a good job making little girls think they are awesome so that we don't have Rick Santorum 2020.

At the very least, we'll get to hear Kelly Macdonald's delightful Scottish voice for something close to two hours. That will be worth it even if the rest of the movie is terrible.

So where can I find an official scale about how much I'm supposed to care about various animals and their feelings? I mean, domestic mammals like dogs or cats are obviously pretty high. Horses, too. Cows, sort of, in that I'm supposed to care about their feelings but I eat them anyway.

The official amount you are supposed to care about an animal is directly proportional to how cute the animal is.

Gee, over fifty posts in on a thread about animal (well, fish) abuse, and no mention of the recently cancelled HBO series Luck? I guess the ratings really were as bad as I had heard.

I mentioned it in another thread but the cancellation because of horse deaths was a red herring. HBO wasn't happy with the ratings nor the cost of the show in light of the poor ratings so they used the deaths an excuse.

Waltz with Bashir was seriously great - best movie of any kind, in its year.
I lucked into seeing that and Sita Sings the Blues on consecutive days at a film fest, which made for a memorably great animated-movie weekend.

I mentioned it [Luck] in another thread but the cancellation because of horse deaths was a red herring. HBO wasn't happy with the ratings nor the cost of the show in light of the poor ratings so they used the deaths an excuse.

Yeah, that seems to be the general consensus. From what I've read the show's pilot drew about a million viewers, but subsequent episodes only pulled in about half that.

Personally I am enjoying the show, and am looking forward to the final two episodes. But the show's pace has been, what's the best word here; deliberate? Yeah, deliberate; I think that's a good description of the pace of Luck, at least so far. I can see where many viewers would lose interest along the way. I'm also sure that many viewers were hoping that Luck would be The Sopranos, except set at the race track.

Since Season Two was already written (or, at least, outlined) it would be nice if the show's writers would put the screen plays into book form, so that at least we can read what happens to the characters they've created.

I too found Spirited Away just OK. I think it gets so overwrought with all the plot twists and different ideas going around that I lost any connectedness to the characters. I think I got bored with it really. My 8 year old on OTOH really liked it, she of course didnt feel that sort of manipulation, and had the energy to stay with it and so bought into it. I suppose the family part of the story also made her respond.

I think both of us, found Ponyo to be pretty good, but not great. I saw a bit of Howl's MOving Castle and will probably watch more of it, I might like it more.

I caught a field mouse in my house once and he such a pain in the ass that I put him to death. He had a partner and I felt so bad, that when I caught the other guy I let him go near a playground. I dont think I'll ever do that to a mouse again. They were cute, brown and white field mouse, so they had a certain cuteness.

Since Season Two was already written (or, at least, outlined) it would be nice if the show's writers would put the screen plays into book form, so that at least we can read what happens to the characters they've created.

Well, from what I have heard they finished the first two episodes of season two and they'll be tacking those on at the end of season 1.

I too found Spirited Away just OK. I think it gets so overwrought with all the plot twists and different ideas going around that I lost any connectedness to the characters. I think I got bored with it really. My 8 year old on OTOH really liked it, she of course didnt feel that sort of manipulation, and had the energy to stay with it and so bought into it. I suppose the family part of the story also made her respond.

I think both of us, found Ponyo to be pretty good, but not great. I saw a bit of Howl's MOving Castle and will probably watch more of it, I might like it more.

I agree with your points on Spirited Away and Ponyo. I think that you would like Howl's Moving Castle and My Neighbor Totoro better. MNT never gets brought up in these discussions, but I like it the best. I find it to be so much more honest than Spirited Away.

Woefully underrated: The Castle Cagliostro, Miyazaki's Lupin the Third movie. Not as good as Totoro or Spirited Away, but just as fun as you'd imagine a Miyazaki-made Lupin film.

Perfect Blue and Tokyo Godfathers are both really underrated also; it's a shame that Satoshi Kon passed away so young, he was a really creative voice with different approaches to narrative than other anime directors.

I ####### love Kung Fu Panda. I LOVE IT. It's funny, it's sad, it looks beautiful, it's got awesome fight scenes, and all in all I think it's basically a perfectly constructed story. And I love Master Oogway. I thought he was awesome.

But yes the sequel was stupid.

Edited because I realized I was straw-manning. (Making a straw man? Arguing with a straw man? What's the verb form of that?)

I love all of Miyazaki's films, but I hold a special place in my heart for Porco Rosso and Kiki's Delivery Service. Miyazaki is a vintage aircraft fanatic (heck, his studio is named after a 1930s Italian airplane), and all of the aircraft in Porco Rosso are based on real aircraft, or in some cases, real design proposals for aircraft that never actually flew, and they're so lovingly drawn. In Kiki's Delivery Service, that biplane that you see during the opening sequence isn't just some generic airplane - it's a beautifully rendered Handley Page HP.42, perfect in every detail. It's that kind of craftsmanship that makes his films so wonderful, at least to a fellow airplane nut...

I too found Spirited Away just OK. I think it gets so overwrought with all the plot twists and different ideas going around that I lost any connectedness to the characters. I think I got bored with it really

I don't get this at all. Even if you didn't care about the plot or the characters the animation style in itself is a surrealist masterpiece. How can you be bored by the river spirit, the creepy masked guy, the giant baby, that train scene, etc? Even if it was a collection of shorts with no connections at all it would be fascinating IMO unless you have no interest in artistic animation on its own merits. On the other hand I couldn't get into Howl's much. Seemed a let down after Spirited Away/Mononoke and a bit of retread for him in some ways. Seeing it with the English dub first may have hurt it for me(Billy Crystal is so distinctive and just seemed out of place.)

Speaking of collections of shorts, anyone who is interested in experimental animation needs to see the two Genius Party movies.

Seeing it with the English dub first may have hurt it for me(Billy Crystal is so distinctive and just seemed out of place.)

I've never watched the English-dubbed versions of Miyazaki's movies for that very reason. I always watch the Japanese-language version with sub-titles, because I want to concentrate on the story and the visuals, rather than go "Oh, that's ________ doing the dub..."

Miyazaki's films are the one place dubbing doesn't usually hurt anime IMO because they are so professionally done. Most of them I didn't even know who did the voices until looking it up afterward but Billy Crystal is just impossible to separate from his voice ala Robin Williams in Aladdin(but Robin Williams is naturally a cartoon character even in real life so that worked.)