Read the post you commented on again. It talked about SENATE Republicans. The Senate did it at night, after the building was supposed to be closed. Look at the video I just linked to and tell me that wasn't ramming a bill through, not to mention, may cause it to be overturned since some of us actually believe open meetings and open records are slightly important to prevent things like, I don't know, massive corruption!

Lets talk about how some Assembly members couldn't even get into the Capitol 30 minutes before the session was supposed to start yesterday morning. Lets talk about how they wouldn't provide a summary of the changes to the bill so people knew what those changes were. Lets talk about them not letting the press into the building while they dragged protesters outside (apparently including a woman in a wheelchair). Or how press was blocked from entering when a press conference was scheduled. Lets talk about handcuffs on the doors. Lets talk about the lies told about the protest such as its going to cost $7.5 million to remove the tape THEY told the protesters to use or that windows were shattered and locks broken so protesters could get in when now it comes out that the total bill will be under $400,000, the union that does the cleaning is volunteering their time so that's high too, and no windows or locks were broken.

I'm assuming that was directed at me. First, I have zero editorial control over anything in the "media". I do have an opinion, and that's exactly what the message board is for. I'm not going to tell anyone they shouldn't voice their opinions as long as they do it in a way that doesn't violate the rules of the message board. I have every right to disagree with someone's opinion, or point out when there are factual errors (which I've done for both sides), just like everyone else.

Second, I am still employed in Tomahawk, I still visit on a regular basis and bring money into the economy. I still take cars that are out of warranty "home" to have repairs done, etc. My insurance is still through an agent there. My money is still in a Tomahawk bank. Sadly, I think I do more to support many of the local businesses than many of the people that actually live there do. I pay the same sales tax as anyone else. Yes, I don't have property there personally, but I still have very strong bond to the area and spending decisions I make do have an affect on a number of local businesses that DO pay property taxes. Oh, and the taxes I pay are in Madison (through rent). Funny how Tomahawk stands to lose money from the state budget too. We're all in this one together.

Kerry,You're right you are entitled to your opinion. Don't mind me, but a State employee paying taxes seems akin to person taking money from one pocket and putting it into another pocket of his own pants.

Ken and I must be twins separated at birth or something - I share his views entirely.

Its' downright scary to me that there are still thousands of people who cannot see this for what it is...

First, it was never about the money. Weeks ago the unions conceded on all monetary issues, yet our governor and the Republicans refused to sit at the table and discuss anything. The Democratic senators who went to Illinois offered time and time again to negotiate, but were told "no." In that infamous phone call, it was clear that the governor had no intentions of compromise or negotiation.

Secondly, in the senate it was done in an illegal manner. I truly believe that the Republican senators broke the open meeting law. Time will tell, but many people in the state have already lost collective bargaining.

In turn, they will lose money. As a result, our state's economy will suffer.

This is really getting Goofy. Next it will be visions of some sort or perhaps "Vulcan Mind Melds."

Sure do like that property tax freeze...Some of us old folks may be able to stay in our homes a few more years. That is, if we can hold the new garbage can rental fees down..............and that brain storm is proof that all the nutty stuff doesn't come from Madison.

On a larger scale. This whole deal is a little ripple compared to what Japan just got handed.

No, he was definately over run at the meeting. However, democracy is found in the process and options he has to go to the judicial system to rule on this issue. Democracy doesn't look like the tail lights from 14 senators fleeing to Illinois or taking pins off of hinges to gain access to the capitol either. It is found in the system that will penalize them if need be.

What Rep. Barca was quoting was a compliance guide for open meetings law. Here is a passage from the foreward by J.B. Van Hollen, who I believe authored the guide:

"Wisconsin Open Meetings Law: A Compliance Guide is not a comprehensiveinterpretation of the open meetings law. Its aim is to provide a workable understanding ofthe law by explaining fundamental principles and addressing recurring questions.Government officials and others seeking legal advice about the application of the openmeetings law to specific factual situations should direct questions to their own legaladvisors."

If the actions taken warrant legal reprocussions, that will be decided by the courts. That is democracy.

Kerry Tobin wrote:Lets talk about how some Assembly members couldn't even get into the Capitol 30 minutes before the session was supposed to start yesterday morning.

From what I have found, the inability of legislature to prohibit the public from entry during meetings does not extend to the governor or the state courts. Let me know if you know of orders originating from the legilature regarding the closing of the capitol because I haven't seen anything in print yet.

Kerry Tobin wrote:Lets talk about how they wouldn't provide a summary of the changes to the bill so people knew what those changes were.

Although I agree that this was done in poor form, after watching the legislature, it sounds like the idea of voting on premise and assumption is not new and may be done by both sides. It seems that if the Dems had an explaination or description of what was removed, they would have been fine with that.

Kerry Tobin wrote:Lets talk about them not letting the press into the building while they dragged protesters outside (apparently including a woman in a wheelchair). Or how press was blocked from entering when a press conference was scheduled. Lets talk about handcuffs on the doors.

My guess is that the actions of the troopers in dragging people out is more reflective of the actions of the protesters. I don't think they will do anything that they don't have to as far as removal of protesters and media. Was all press restricted from entering or were they only allowing a certain amount of reporters and cameras? Regarding the handcuffs on the doors, it thought it was funny that the MFD fire cheif asked they be remove as it is a fire escape hazard, however, filling the capitol with protestors and sleeping gear posed no hazard.

Kerry Tobin wrote:Lets talk about the lies told about the protest such as its going to cost $7.5 million to remove the tape THEY told the protesters to use or that windows were shattered and locks broken so protesters could get in when now it comes out that the total bill will be under $400,000, the union that does the cleaning is volunteering their time so that's high too, and no windows or locks were broken.

"It was not immediately clear how the estimates were made, though the state is apparently relying on opinions by historical architects, one of whom works for the U.S. Park Service.

One concern is the residue from tape that the state says is causing damage to stone and other surfaces inside the Capitol.

Michele Curran, an architectural historian for the National Parks Service who coordinates national historic landmarks in Wisconsin, said she didn’t know how the state had arrived at its damage figures.

She said certain kinds of tape can leave lasting residues on surfaces such as marble or wood if they are improperly removed. But she said only a professional cleaning service experienced in such work and familiar with the situation in the state Capitol could estimate any possible costs.

'They need a quote from a company that specializes in cleaning historic surfaces,' Curran said."

Lying and getting incorrect quotes are two different things. It sounds to me like a worst case scenario was given and the media ran with it. Both sides of the media. If you can provide some sort of information showing intent to mislead for some sort of gain, link away. As far as people volunteering to clean up, it's possible, but I'll believe it when I see it.

neup99 wrote:Was all press restricted from entering or were they only allowing a certain amount of reporters and cameras?

My understanding is all press was restricted and so were the actual legislators. That is what I was referring too. When the Wisconsin State Journal can't get reporters in the building they're blocking out the press.

neup99 wrote:Lying and getting incorrect quotes are two different things. It sounds to me like a worst case scenario was given and the media ran with it. Both sides of the media. If you can provide some sort of information showing intent to mislead for some sort of gain, link away. As far as people volunteering to clean up, it's possible, but I'll believe it when I see it.

The $7.5 million quote was specifically used in court as part of the argument to lock the Capitol down. This was done despite the fact that the union that has cared for the marble since it was installed was volunteering their time to clean it, the protesters were collecting donations for cleaning supplies, etc. If I walked into court and gave a random estimate from someone that hadn't even looked at the walls, or done any actual testing, or tried cleaning the tape I would be held in contempt. Funny how the more accurate estimate was out within hours of the court judgement though.

As far as the volunteering to clean it up. You might want to actually come to the capitol and look around. I went a couple of times and I actually saw the protesters with garbage bags walking around and picking up any trash, bottles, etc. I saw the protesters making sure people were using the tape they were asked to use to protect the walls. I've seen the reports (and believe them) that litter is down around the capitol building compared to normal because of these actions. How often do you see that when a crowd of 70,000 people gather? I can tell you that they have been a LOT more respectful than the people that come to the Pow Wow Days in Tomahawk. After that, the streets are a mess, we have to clean cans and trash off our window sills, etc. and people are constantly using the gap between our building and the next as a bathroom facility.

If Karl Rove and the Koch brothers really want to help, they could pump all their ad money into WI's deficit, don't you think? And I really have a big problem with the people that have no qualms about giving tax money to the big corporations for their CEO's huge bonuses but begrudge what is paid to the public employees!

What`s happening on this small town message board, is just a mirror image of what`s happening across the country thanks to our slimeball walker. Total division! Friend against friend, brother against brother, sister against sister! Welcome to the evil world of the GOP, and snott walker!