What made the original nWo angle so special? Why was it that the first incarnation worked so well and and re-hashes, by both WWF/WWE and WCW have failed so miserably? Yeah, the shock heel turn of Hulk Hogan played a part, but he was involved in a couple of reincarnations of it (nWo in WWE, nWo black and white, nWo A-team after re-uniting with the Wolfpack) and each time it failed miserably. Was it Hall and Nash? Or was it the fact that Scott Hall, with no prior warning or notice, "just showed up" on Nitro one night as an "Outsider from the WWF" and announced he was taking over?

Which got me thinking, why not have, say, Rob Van Dam, "just show up" on Smackdown one night with no prior warning, grab the mike, and announce that he was sent by Eric Bischoff to take over Raw? This could build to a "Raw" faction on Smackdown that comes in through the crowd and attacks SD! wrestlers, with some SD! wrestlers in need of new gimmicks joining the stable. Aside from joining Eric Bischoff on Raw to gloat about their latest attack on SD!, these wrestlers would pretty much stay exclusively on SD!

Certainly, having Spike Dudley start randomly appearing on SD! as part of a "Raw" stable would create a lot more interest than having him be recruited to SD!.

Of course, this could also work in reverse with various SD! wrestlers creating a stable on Raw, and pulling off a "hostile internal takeover". And since the invaders stay mainly on the show they are invading, you could maintain similar numbers of wrestlers on both shows, while presenting the idea that one GM has more superstars than the other.

If the invasion aspect is what was so magic about the original nWo angle, could something similar work now as a part of the brand extension?

Uh, I think we are way too early in the split for that to happen yet. Maybe in a year or so, sure. But I have a hard enough time of keeping track of who is on which roster, and who jumped this last week (CRASH FUCKIN' HOLLY) that creating stables on the only show would just confuse the issue more for me.

And if/when this does happen, I would love to know why the loyalists from the show wouldn't just wipe the floor with the invaders.

PMMJ

"Nothing remains interesting where anything may happen." -H.G. Wells"Show me the country in which there are no strikes and I'll show you that country in which there is no liberty." -Emma Goldman

Over the past year and 1/2, WWE's writing staff have proved themselves inept when it comes to the major "Concept" angle. For example, they blew the WCW-WWF battle. They blew the nWo return, although there wasn't much gas left in the tank for that one. The "Brand Extension" has only been saved by Bishoff (Whatever became of MatRatz? I envision 6 12 year-olds doing high spots in a mall north of Calgary). So, do I think an invasion would work? No. I think if a Russo was there to come up with the "Big Invasion Concept", and others were charged with developing that, it could work. But not now.

"Stevie Ray, you're not gonna want to miss this. Up next, Musharraf and Vajpayee in the Block".

Honestly, I think that would be tremendously lame, and that's why I am not as into the Bischoff-Steph battles as most others seem to be, because I don't know where else it goes. (Acknowledging freely that Bischoff's character is a hell of a lot of fun.)

You see this? You see how my body's glowing like that? Yeah... a lot of people can't do that. Come get some of this glowing. Oh, okay, you. You want some. You want some of the glowing. Look, man... your soul... I'm going to totally floss with it and chew on your spirit. I read that somewhere. But I'll do it.

Invasion angles are lame now anyways. Been there, done that. It doesn't work anymore. I think Thursday's show was about as well as a short term angle can be booked and look forward to seeing that play out in future episodes (in terms of Rico and Chuck and Billy's character, as well as FINALLY seeing Three Minutes interfere). I don't think invasion angles work anymore. The best chance for one in the WWE was the resurgance of the nWo, and I think the first month worked. Everything after was REALLY downhill. I just think the nWo basically did everything possible with the whole invasion, that and we've seen that Vince refuses in these situations to make his own company look weak in any way (look at the Invasion, WWF NEVER lost! Best part about the nWo? They destroyed WCW).

I don't see the GM battle as an invasion storyline either, and have been entertained so far. I can't wait to see what happens after the events of Thursday as now Velocity superstars where all turned into real players in one segment.

(edited by WhoBettahThanDeion on 14.9.02 0853) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Originally posted by Tom DeanHonestly, I think that would be tremendously lame, and that's why I am not as into the Bischoff-Steph battles as most others seem to be, because I don't know where else it goes. (Acknowledging freely that Bischoff's character is a hell of a lot of fun.)

Well look, between nWo invading WCW, nWo invading WWE, Japanese wrestlers invading WCW, and WCW / ECW invading WWF, or ECW invading WWF, have the invaders ever won. And there's a ton of other ways it could be done that we haven't seen before.

As for the comment on what WWE would loose, the answer is nothing. Unlike when nWo or WCW or ECW invaded, they'd have nothing to loose. It wouldn't be someone else's fed taking over Vinny Mac's, it would be Vinny mac's own taking over his own.

It is also a way to hold off the necessity of the inevitable Raw Vs Smackdown angle for a while.

Kayfabe wise, Bischoff has used stables to control his own fed, why not someone else's?

Originally posted by Sterling Golden (Whatever became of MatRatz? I envision 6 12 year-olds doing high spots in a mall north of Calgary).

They already have this--it's TNA!

Bischoff has been the saving grace of this "new" GM angle. They really should've brought somebody else in to GM Smackdown, because how are you going to put any heel heat on Bischoff when the person he's fucking with is Stephanie. She generates absolutely no sympathy, she's a monster heel who has a megaton of heat, everyone loves to hate her.

I think the main problem with the "brand extension" is that in the WWF vs WCW days, most people loved one and hated the other (or clearly had a stylistic preference). With Raw vs Smackdown, there is no way to make us think that these are two separate entities. Even the casual fan, knows that there's no more WCW, only Vince. On Smackdown, I like Angle, Eddie, Rey and Hogan. On Raw I like RVD, Flair and Booker. They are both WWF and I'm not going to watch one and not the other, like in the old days (1998).

The brand extension is just a hoax being perpetrated against the shareholders who don't subscribe to the Torch (probably 90%).

Note to Michael Cole and Tazz: When Stephanie is getting beat down, don't yell, "Stephanie isn't a wrestler, dammit!" In one of the innumerable hideous Steph angles shoved down our throats the past couple of years--she was the Women's Champion for four months.

Bears 27 Vikings 23David Terrell has two words for Randy Moss and his fancy Minnesota Vikings

"Well, you can't involve friendship with business. It has to be one or the other. It's either business or friendship, or hit the bricks!"--Life Lessons from "The Tao of Bobby the Brain Heenan" Uncensored 2000 preview

I don't think it's time yet. When Undertaker showed up on Smackdown, I got a little twinge of, "Hey, Taker's switched shows!" But they need to get more separation.

Going back to the WCW/ECW invasion... the more I think about it, the more I think about what a wasted opportunity. Even with the talent that they had.... why not just have the ECW guys show up and beat the shit out of everyone with chairs?? Have Dreamer work over Vince with a Kendo stick and Shane gets a Van Daminator. Bubba bomb Steph through a table... something that would've established interesting conflict.

Originally posted by asteroidboyI don't think it's time yet. When Undertaker showed up on Smackdown, I got a little twinge of, "Hey, Taker's switched shows!" But they need to get more separation.

Going back to the WCW/ECW invasion... the more I think about it, the more I think about what a wasted opportunity. Even with the talent that they had.... why not just have the ECW guys show up and beat the shit out of everyone with chairs?? Have Dreamer work over Vince with a Kendo stick and Shane gets a Van Daminator. Bubba bomb Steph through a table... something that would've established interesting conflict.

Instead, we got crap.

If Vince wasn't going to let WCW get over you know goddamn well he isn't going to hype ECW either. The whole barrying of those two promotions still makes me sick.

Part of the problem in the initial WCW/ECW invasion was ego. As a rule, the WCW guys were booked like major chumps, and were almost always seen as inferior to the WWF guys. The WWF had a chance to push these guys as major threats, but they couldn't get any of them to go over the established stars. Booker T was the most obvious example. He was the incoming WCW champion, and he was squashed by the Rock twice.

They were also kinda screwed by a lack of strong heels coming in. Booker was the only main-event WCW guy coming in. They could have had RVD as a heel, but he just couldn't wrap his head around the concept of trying to get the crowd to boo him and kept trying to do face things.

They needed only to do one thing differently to make the InVasion work: have Paul Heyman as the sole leader of the Alliance. Pure GOLD. Instead it became another episode of McMahon Family Mayhem.

And the first time I've actually thought "Whoa! BIG TIME invasion!" during the split was for the wedding angle this week. That was just so birlliantly executed, what with Bisch being disguised and all, it actually made him appearing on SmackDown seem important.

It's my belief that the WCW invasion of the WWF, like the nWo invasion of the WWF, could have been successful if they'd been booked properly. But Vince absolutely refused to let anything WCW/nWo get over against anything WWF.

Just for a couple of examples. Instead of bothering to build characters for their existing WCW/ECW roster or buying out the contracts of more-recognized WCW stars (such as Hogan, Sting, Flair, Nash, Goldberg, Steiner, or Jarrett), the WWF ran with the InVasion for a little while before having Stone Cold Steve Austin join the Alliance. Well whoop-dee-doo, now we have the WWF Champion as the de facto “leader” of WCW. Anyone else see a problem with that, when the top guy in WCW doesn't give a shit about the WCW Title?

So instead of the WCW invasion “being all about the WCW Superstars”, it became all about Stone Cold Steve Austin. RVD was an unexpected bonus to the InVasion, but he was an ECW guy. Hell-- in the battle that decided whether WCW would live on or be destroyed, only one Team Alliance member was an actual identifiable WCW Superstar! (Booker T.) The Team Alliance team at Survivor Series was Stone Cold Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Shane McMahon of all people, Rob Van Dam and Booker T. So much for all the talk about “we're gonna keep the brand alive, we're not just gonna put it on a shelf and bury it.” Whatever.

The nWo invasion started off decently enough for the first two days. They tried convincing everyone they were there to help the WWF, but no one believed them. (Makes you wonder what would've happened if they had believed them, no? Maybe they were put off by the strange armageddon-like nWo Titantron video.) During their first two days in WWE, they beat up Steve Austin and had him arrested the following night, and just about ended The Rock's career. Good start if you ask me.

Then on SmackDown, the shit-fest began. Austin got to Hall and simply beat the shit out of him, while Hogan and Nash cowered in the back. They might have been able to salvage this with a Hall face turn-- “Why the hell didn't you guys come out to help me?”-- but nothing doing. They just made it the Steve Austin Show once again, and made the nWo look like pussies. What's more, the “who among us could be an nWo member?” angle that made the original nWo so successful never materialized. Before Shawn Michaels, the only new voluntary nWo members were former members-- X-Pac and The Big Show. Anyone who couldn't see The Big Show's nWo turn coming a million miles away was either stupid or didn't watch WCW back in '97.

Both invasion angles could have been successful (yes, even the “three old men” in the nWo, because of the possibility of a recruiting drive), but because of bad writing, it didn't happen. Damn it, I want to be one of the idiots in the back writing this crap... I could've done this so much better.

But it's too late baby, now, it's too late. Though we really did try to make it...

“Now put that thing back where it came from or so help me-- Oh, hey! We're rehearsing a scene from the upcoming company play called Put That Thing Back Where It Came From Or So Help Me.”--Mike Wazowski, Monsters, Inc.

>Note to Michael Cole and Tazz: When Stephanie is getting beat down, don't yell, "Stephanie isn't a wrestler, dammit!" In one of the innumerable hideous Steph angles shoved down our throats the past couple of years--she was the Women's Champion for four months.

Or, let us not forget her going over Flex in a match. And, most disgusting of all, her getting into a World Title match that would be Jericho's only rematch.

Thank you Mr. Wanz for the check, now you get an AWA World Title Reign. But be careful, my boy Greg is a heat machine.

Hey what about when Shane actually declared an Invasion on WWF? I mean when does anyone ever declare an invasion? Isn't the point of an invasion that its supposed to be like a suprise, unexpected attack? Its just that when he said "Its time for WCW to invade WWF!" just sounded stupid.