This website is devoted to the extraordinary mystics and visionaries of the Church, especially those who are lesser known such as St Gemma Galgani, Blessed Alexandrina da Costa, Sr Josefa Menendez, Marie Rose Ferron, Rev. Pere Lamy, Gabrielle Bossis and others. The author endeavors always to be in communion with the Catholic Church and its teachings. May God bless all who visit here. +

The percentage of souls that are saved according to the Mystics and Saints
By: Glenn Dallaire

Are only a few saved? Does the greater proportion of humanity end up in hell? Some quotes attributed to the Mystics and Saints

'For the Scripture says, No one who believes in him will be put to shame. There is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call upon him. For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." ' -(Romans 10:10-13)

For sure, many of the Mystics and Saints within the Church throughout the centuries have been quite stringent and rigorous in their interpretation of the Scriptures, especially in what pertains to the proportion of humanity that will be saved. In fact, some of their predictions have been quite disquieting:

“The common opinion is that the greater part of adults are lost.” -Saint Alphonsus Liguori, -Mystic and Doctor of the Church

"It is certain that few are saved." – Saint Augustine, Doctor of the Church

"Out of one hundred thousand sinners who continue in sin until death, scarcely one will be saved."
-Saint Jerome, Father and Doctor of the Church

"The number of the elect is so small — so small — that, were we to know how small it is, we would faint away with grief: one here and there, scattered up and down the world!” -Saint Louis Marie de Montfort

"So vast a number of miserable souls perish, and so comparatively few are saved!" –Saint Philip Neri, mystic

“The greater number of Christians today are damned. The destiny of those dying on one day is that very few – not as many as ten – went straight to Heaven; many remained in Purgatory; and those cast into Hell were as numerous as snowflakes in mid-winter.” -Blessed Anna Maria Taigi, mystic

“Among adults there are few saved because of sins of the flesh. […] With the exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned.” -Saint Remigius of Rheims

“The number of the damned is incalculable.” -Saint Veronica Giuliani, mystic
"A great number of Christians are lost.” -Saint Leonard of Port Maurice

“Oh, how many souls lose Heaven and are cast into Hell!” -Saint Francis Xavier

"So many people are going to die, and almost all of them are going to Hell! So many people falling into hell!” –Blessed Jacinta, visionary of Fatima

“Taking into account the behavior of mankind, only a small part of the human race will be saved.”-Sister Lucia, visionary of Fatima

“I was watching souls going down into the abyss as thick and fast as snowflakes falling in the winter mist.” -Blessed Benedict Joseph Labre, mystic

“The number of the saved is as few as the number of grapes left after the vineyard-pickers have passed.” -Saint John Vianney, the Cure of Ars, mystic
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And so it is that we are presented with quite a disconcerting appraisal as foretold by some of the Saints and Mystics of the Church! Yet, it should be noted that other Saints and Mystics have been considerably more lenient in their assessment of the proportion of those saved.

However, for the "other side of the coin", lets take Sr. Josefa Menedez, for example. Jesus reportedly said to her:

"Oh, all you who are steeped in sin, and who for a time more or less long have lived as wanderers and fugitives because of your crimes ... if the offences of which you have been guilty have hardened and blinded your hearts . . . if to grant satisfaction to one or other of your passions you have sunk into evil ways ... Ah! when the motives or accomplices of your sin have forsaken you, and you realize the state of your soul, oh then, do not yield to despair! For as long as a breath of life remains a man may have recourse to mercy and ask for pardon."If you are still young, if already the scandals of your life have lowered you in the eyes of the world, do not be afraid. . . . Even if there is reason to treat you as a criminal, to insult and cast you off . . . your God has no wish to see you fall into the flames of hell. ... On the contrary He ardently desires you to come to Him so that He may forgive you. If you dare not speak to Him, at least look at Him and let the sighs of your heart reach Him, and at once you will find His kind and fatherly hand stretched out to lead you to the springs of pardon and life.

"Should it happen that you have spent the greater part of your life in impiety and indifference, and that the sudden approach of the hour of death fills you with blinding despair . . . Oh! do not let yourself be deceived, for there is still time for pardon. If only one second of life remains to you, in that one second you can buy back eternal life!"(Words of Jesus to Sr. Josefa Menendez)

And this author would certainly be remiss if in this discussion I did not mention the extraordinary private revelations concerning Divine Mercy given to the Polish nun, St Faustina Kowalska. One could quote literally HUNDREDS of statements of Jesus given to her concerning His infinite mercy and forgiveness towards sinners, but this one is a good representation:"Today I am sending you [Sr. Faustina] with My mercy to the people of the whole world. I do not want to punish aching mankind, but I desire to heal it, pressing it to My merciful Heart. I use punishment when they themselves force me to do so; My hand is very reluctant to take hold of the sword of justice." (Jesus to St Faustina Kowalska)Nevertheless, all the quotes and mystical private revelations above are subject to fallibility, meaning that no mortal man knows for sure the proportion of those who go to heaven vs. hell. The Saints and Mystics in the quotes above are simply giving their perspectives and opinions based on their studies, or in some cases simply relating their mystical experiences. And concerning mystical experiences of hell, some mystics like St Faustina, St Veronica Giuliani and Sr. Josefa Menendez were notorious for being taken in spirit on numerous trips to hell, while the children visionaries of Fatima were given a very chilling vision of hell, as were many other Mystics and Saints. And concerning her visits to hell, St Faustina wrote in her Diary:

"I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the abyss of Hell so that I might tell souls about it, and testify to its existence...the devils were full of hatred... It is a place of great torture."

And speaking of Fatima and hell, it is worth remembering that at Fatima we were taught by Heaven itself (by an Angel) to pray, 'Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are most in need of Thy mercy.'

To instill the fear of God--scaring the "hell" out of one's listeners
For sure, some of the more stringent statements and admonitions from the Saints were intended to literally "scare the hell" out of their listeners, so that they would refrain from sinning, for fear of God's punishment. The Saints and preachers of old sought to place a very strong "fear of God" within the hearts of their listeners. Yet how rare it is today to hear a homily preaching "fire and brimstone"--yet such was not the case with the preachers and Saints of old. And so it is that we find the strong statements of many Saints concerning hell to be very severe and harsh to our modern ears, because for better or worse we simply do not hear such things from the pulpit nowadays.

"And a third of the stars fell from the sky"
In Revelation 12, we read how 1/3 of the angels were cast into hell for all eternity. Echoing Lucifer, one third declared that they would not serve God, choosing for themselves to be separated from Him forever. This writer wonders: Could humanity be saved/condemned in similar proportions as the Angels (ie.: one-third condemned???). Nevertheless, likewise it is for us in that we ourselves choose to accept or reject God's love, mercy and salvation. God does not so much as cast us into hell as we ourselves freely choose heaven or hell by accepting or rejecting God's love, mercy and salvation, either uniting ourselves or separating ourselves from Him by our own free choice. And no one will be saved in spite of themselves--one has to truly be sorry and repentant for ones sins, and firmly desire God's forgiveness, mercy and love. Thus a "Reprobate" is not so much someone who is rejected by God, as it is someone who themselves reject God. And we can see that this rejection of God is the "reprobate mind" that St. Paul talks about in Romans 1:28.

For the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

"God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance." (CCC, 1037)

Noah's Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the Jews who reached the Promised Land
In one of his well known Sermons, St. Leonard of Port Maurice suggests that Noah's Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the Jews who reached the Promised Land are symbolic of the percentage of those who will be saved. He points out that in the time of Noah, the entire human race was submerged by the Great Flood, and only eight people were saved in the Ark. He also points out that the Scriptures tell us that only two Hebrews out of two million entered the Promised Land after going out of Egypt, and that only four people escaped the fire of Sodom and Gomorrah, while everyone else perished.

On the other hand we have the story of Jonah and the inhabitants of Nineveh--God told Jonah that the great city of Nineveh would be destroyed in 30 days because of the sinfulness of the people, but upon hearing of this warning through Jonah, all of the people of the city repented of their sins, and the entire city was spared the destruction.

But what did Our Lord Jesus have to say when He was asked?
The many and the few....“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." Matthew 7:13-14

....And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." (Luke 13:23-24)

Could the Kingdom of Hell be greater than the Kingdom of Heaven?--This writers thoughts on the percentage of souls saved
It was an email from a reader a few weeks ago that actually prompted the writing of this article. He had pointed out how in the book "The Mystical City of God" by Venerable Mary of Agreda (mystic) the Virgin Mary had stated that to get to heaven one must love God fully with all ones being, so he was understandably questioning what other Mystics have said concerning the ratio of those saved vs those damned, for let us be very frank and face facts that very rare indeed are those who love God fully with all of their heart and soul. And my reply, as stated below, was essentially that this fullness of love required could actually be attained and fulfilled in Purgatory.

Hi Mike,
It is nice to hear from you--thanks for your kind comments! I'm glad that you are finding the website(s) interesting and inspiring.

To reply to your comments concerning the percentage of souls who go to heaven, purgatory and hell, here is my understanding and perspective which is essentially a compendium of what I have read over the past 25 years or so. And so, as I understand it, the majority of souls go to purgatory, and very, very few go directly to heaven. More on that in a moment, but as for hell I have concluded that its a significantly smaller percentage that go to hell than those who are saved. Those who go to hell specifically choose to reject Jesus and His mercy and salvation that is offered to them, and they themselves actively choose to go to hell by their own rejection of God. For as at least one soul has pointed out, would it be reasonable to think that the Kingdom of heaven would be smaller in population (ie.-contain less souls) than the kingdom of hell? Would God, knowing humanities fate in advance, having thus created humanity in His image and likeness, yet knowing and permitting that more souls would be damned than be saved, making Satans kingdom greater than His own, and more souls lost to Jesus death on the Cross than those who are saved? To me such an outcome simply does not stand to reason knowing of God's infinite love and mercy.

Now, as for heaven and purgatory, its my understanding that very, very few souls go directly to heaven, simply because of the purity, humility and love that one has to have to enter directly into heaven--and so the vast majority pass through Purgatory first, with many souls (probably the majority) entering the lower regions of Purgatory, while those who pass from this life well along the way of sacrificial love and virtue likely enter the middle and even upper regions of Purgatory. And while Purgatory certainly is no picnic, the souls there at least have the assurance of their salvation and eventual entrance into heaven at some point

Simply put, my understanding is that Jesus sacrifice and death on the Cross is of such value for the salvation of souls that we can barely even fathom Its merit and worth, and essentially only those who flat out reject Jesus infinite love and mercy will of their own free will cast themselves into hell, that being the place where God is completely absent. Yet, we are weighed on the scales of Mercy and Justice, and while God is infinitely merciful, He is also just, and God's Justice surely requires that many (if not most) souls go to the lower parts of Purgatory, requiring a long purgation before entering into heaven.

In the end, this is simply what I myself have come to understand from what I have gathered through the various reading that I have done over the years, and I readily acknowledge and accept the possibility that my conclusions could be wrong.

May Jesus bless you and your loved ones and may the Blessed Virgin Mary cover you under Her heavenly mantle.

So to summarize this writers take on the subject, in the end if more souls are damned than those who are saved, that would make the Kingdom of Hell significantly greater (in the number of souls) than the Kingdom of heaven, with Satan in possession of more souls than God Himself. Additionally, one would then have to ask what kind of God would actually damn the greater portion of humanity, having known beforehand prior to creation, the eternal destination of all of humanity, and having created man "in His image and likeness", and having sent His only begotten Son to suffer and die a horrible death for their salvation?

While it is possible that such is the case that more souls are damned, this writer finds it very difficult to reconcile and harmonize such a conclusion, given Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross, and the infinite value of His Passion and death.

On deathbed conversions
In closing, there is a well known saying from World War II that "There are no atheists in fox holes", meaning that when our lives are in grave danger, we seemingly naturally turn to God, our Creator, and many people at the end of their lives undergo whats known as a "death-bed conversion".

I remember reading of a priest who seriously doubted the efficacy of such deathbed conversions, having witnessed quite a few of them in his ministry as a priest. In summary, he doubted whether certain such souls would actually be saved, especially those who lived lives of serious sin. He felt that their last minute repentance and contrition where only brought about by fear of their imminent death, and that they were not truly sincere. Again, no one can say for sure about such matters, but this writer would call to mind Jesus words to the repentant thief who was alongside Him on the Cross. In his dying moments, the thief had repented and acknowledged his sinful life before Jesus, and Jesus replied "On this day you will be with Me in Paradise." (Luke 23:43)

In all this concerning God's Mercy and Justice, I would say that the story that definitely made the biggest impression on me over the years would be the heartwarming story of St Gemma and the sinner.

“O Jesus! Remember the sadness that You experienced when, contemplating in the light of Thy divinity the predestination of those who would be saved by the merits of Thy sacred passion, You also saw at the same time the great multitude of reprobates who would be damned for their sins, and You were deeply grieved for those hopeless, lost, and unfortunate sinners.” -Saint Bridget of Sweden
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113 comments:

A very holy, now retired priest made the point that he would never speculate on how many or whether anyone went to hell. He said it was for two reasons first: God's Mercy is so great and his love so boundless and second: he loved God so much that he dared to hope that every bit of God's creation would at some point come to return that love. I rejected that notion initially because Jesus even said it would be better for Judas if he had never been born. Besides God, Jesus, is just!

But the more I thought about it, I realized justice is about me paying what I owe someone else; while mercy is about me not demanding payment for what I am owed. God is just because he keeps his promises. God is merciful because he does not require me to pay what I owe. I could not. He cares only that I return His love. Jesus has paid my debt. It is now only about two things: Loving God with my whole heart, mind, and strength; and loving my neighbor as Jesus loved.

Part of our problem is our lack of understanding of eternity. A helpful analogy is that of a man watching the Macy’s Thanksgiving day parade though a knot hole in a fence. What he can see is “now”, what he has already seen is “history”, and what he has yet to see is the “future”. While someone in the spiritual dimension is like another man watching the same parade from the Goodyear blimp. From that perspective the entire parade is now. In the spiritual dimension there is only now. So, the final state of my free will is the only thing that counts when I enter the spiritual dimension (die). How much purgatory I get depends on me. When I die I will see myself through god's eyes. Then to the extent that I had mercy will I be given mercy.

I am on this earth to grow and mature as a spiritual being, to become in the likeness of God (loving God and all of God’s creation). Because God has given me freewill, I can choose to serve me instead of God. I can choose to turn my back on God and He will respect my choice. How many others throughout history choose to turn their back on God is not relevant to me. A son or daughter who chooses to walk away from me is incredibly painful, because I will not stop loving them. We are all God’s children. So, for now I also dare to hope the number is small.

It should be noted that Our Lady told the Venerable Mary of Agreda in The Mystical City Of God books she dictated to her that as of then--the 1600's --that there was a "nearly infinite" number of souls in Hell as of then--some 400 years ago--We know from the Exorcism in Switzerland in 1978, that has the Impramitur of a Bishop, that Our Lady oversaw where the demons were forced to tell the truth on certain matters by Our Lady and "above" that The Mystical City of God is in fact true and was dictated by Our Lady....People who push the false narrative that relatively few go to Hell are doing Satan a favor and stating the opposite of what Our Lady told us thru Venerable Mary of Agreda is the truth of this matter-- a "nearly infinite" number in Hell would agree with her... a bit late, let's not join them due to negligence, misrepresentations and even lies on this issue by the misinformed and those who discount God's Justice as opposed to His Mercy....God bless all!

Thanks Greg for sharing your very interesting and thought provoking reflections--especially concerning God's justice and mercy. And I very much like the Macy’s Thanksgiving day parade analogy.

And thanks also to Tommy for your comments. Its interesting how you mention the revelations given to the mystic, Venerable Mary of Agreda--for it was actually her writings in part that prompted Mike to write me on this subject a couple of weeks ago, which led to the compiling and writing of this article.

The difficulty that I personally have with the idea that "nearly infinite" number of souls in Hell is what I stated in the article:

"In the end, if more souls are damned than those who are saved, that would make the Kingdom of Hell significantly greater than the Kingdom of heaven, with Satan in possession of more souls than God Himself. Additionally, one would then have to ask what kind of God would actually damn the greater portion of humanity, having known beforehand prior to creation, the eternal destination of all of humanity, and having created man "in His image and likeness", and having sent His only begotten Son to suffer and die a horrible death for their salvation? While it is possible that such is the case that more souls are damned, this writer finds it very difficult to reconcile and harmonize such a conclusion, given Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross, and the infinite value of His Passion and death."

If Christ through His Passion, death and Resurrection has won a victory over the powers of Hell, then how can it be such if the vast majority of humanity will be damned? A third of angels that rebelled against God is a minority, albeit a sizeable one, that decided against Him with the aid of superior intellect and a more perfect free will. We humans, on the other hand, have to make such a choice with the aid of a free will that is tempered by fear, ignorance, bodily pain, psychological disposition and cultural conditioning. We are further burdened by a body that craves to be fed and is prone to weaknesses coming from our sexual appetite. We seem to start at a disadvantage when it comes to the salvation of souls. If Christ's victory is worth anything, then it certainly manifests itself in the salvation of many souls. Otherwise, the fewness of the saved seems more like a victory for the powers of Hell.

I have been reading and re-reading the Mystical City of God by Venerable Mary of Agreda, for about 5-6 years. The volumes have received many approbations from bishops and popes. I do believe the following quote, which I just found online, is also printed in the first volume published by TAN books:HOW WAS “CIUDAD” (CITY OF GOD) RECEIVED?

As soon as the “City of God” appeared in print it was welcomed and extolled as a most wonderful work. The different translations found no less enthusiastic welcome in nearly all the European countries. It secured the immediate approbation and encomium of the ordinaries, the universities, the learned and eminent men of Christendom. There is probably no other book which was so closely scrutinized by those in authority, both civil and religious and afterwards so signally approved as the “City of God.” By order of Innocent XL, Alexander VIIL, Clement IX., Benedict XIIL, and Benedict XIV. it was repeatedly subjected to the closest scrutiny and declared authentic, worthy of devout perusal and free from error. The title “Venerabilis” was conferred upon the author. A large sized volume would be required to record the praises and commendations written in favor of the great “City of God.”

From what I remember of the volumes, I remember that Our Lord and His Holy Mother Mary endured many bloody sweats throughout their life. The reason for this is that the sorrow they felt over the choice so many souls would make to damn themselves was so great as to cause this bloody sweat. I know for myself that I feel great sorrow and grief over things such as the death of a friend or other but I never sweat blood over it. The sorrow of Our Holy Mother and her Son was so great as to cause this.I also remember reading that the Agony that Our Lord suffered was mainly over the desire in His Heart that His Passion and Death would amount to so little for a great great many souls. When He prayed to the Father to take this cup away, he was crying out and pleading with His Father to allow His Passion to bring about the salvation of every person, and His unbearable agony was over the free choice so many souls would make to disregard His sufferings and damn themselves.I also remember reading that Our Blessed Mother told Ven Mary of Agreda that the number of souls who were saved was so few that she could not make it known to her lest she die of grief at the number. Having read those things in these four volumes, I do believe that what the above saints are saying is true and not exaggerated.Would that it could be different! Would that the whole world would love and adore Our Lord Jesus as the King of the Universe and fall down before Him and obey Him! !

I need to change part of my comment above and don't know how. It's for the following paragraph:

I also remember reading that the Agony that Our Lord suffered was mainly over the knowledge in His Heart that His Passion and Death would amount to so little for a great great many souls. When He prayed to the Father to take this cup away, he was crying out and pleading with His Father to allow His Passion to bring about the salvation of every person, and His unbearable agony was over the free choice so many souls would make to disregard His sufferings and damn themselves.

Even should there be many less souls in Hell then in Heaven, the Kingdom of God will still be greater, more wonderful, more powerful, more holy, more true, good and beautiful. The terrifying thing in all of this seems to be the amazing amount of respect that Almighty God has for every person's free will.

Great and interesting comments....Seems to me that Christ's statement: "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it" (Matthew 7:13-14) backs up what was said by Our Lady as to the "nearly infinite" number then residing in Hell forever even in the 1600's to Ven. Mary of Agreda in The Mystical City Of God....So "many" are heading to Hell while in comparison "few" will reach Eternal Life in Heaven, seems clear and not like He's not making this point very clear....I don't know how else one would read this and it matches what the Saints who have seen the amount of people falling into Hell have also said....The Revelations of Saint Bridget contain instances where she was allowed to see people, in one case a husband and wife together, given the eternal sentence of Hell,Jesus is quite able to give that sentence where people choose not to follow the rules He laid down, I don't see any post "Vatican 2" type views expressed by Him --His statements to these people are quite sobering as should be Our Lady's comments to those who know about them--they don't match how the "modern" Catholic Church teaches on this point as to Hell and how many are there or how easy it is to get there--Funeral Masses all being "celebrations"now with everyone in Heaven on passing without even any Purgatory prayers needed....Think the Modernists have called this very seriously wrong and much else very wrong too and to the very great eternal detriment of many souls who would have been saved if the Traditional teachings had been preserved and statements of the Saints who knew the truth listened to....

Well, this news won't bring more people back to the Church. It will further alienate those who are already blinded by the culture. It's not that people don't want to come closer, but if they think that it's all rather like Calvin said, that most are destined for damnation, what's the point? People who are far away from God need grace to come back since their hearts are shut and they eyes are blind and their ears are deaf. So are we to conclude that those who live basic modern day(non Christian) lives, but who have NEVER heard the good news are damned? Yes, it seems. A huge percentage of humankind has not had the gospel preached daily to them. How can they be culpable? A large percentage of Christians haven't had the gospel percolate in them and the culture is absolutely hostile to Christ. What of them? Like the parable, the seeds were sown on bad soil or rocky soil or with thorns around it. Is that all their fault? It would seem to me that the people who have clearly damned themselves are the priests and religious who lapse, who do wrong. And other formerly devout adults.

If these mystics are right, what's the point of having children? Seems cruel in this environment to bring souls who are quite likely damned. Free will in a pagan culture filled with earthly pleasures and distractions is not really free when it is trapped in a weak vessel like the human being. Maybe it IS foolish to have children, obviously, these mystics didn't. I guess they didn't want the heartbreak of not having loved ones in heaven with them. We are not so fortunate.

And to the author's point-what was such an onmipotent God doing, bringing a savior down for so few? Why let the devil win so many of God's beings? I guess we will all see, won't we.

One other thing- This idea of limited salvation really reminds me of islam. In Allah, the god is a very strict god with no patience for straying in the least. That is why they have a totalitarian outlook and punishment on earth is severe in order to keep the faithful from a bad ending. They are so sure that allah is not truly mericful and all sins are punishable by eternal damnation that they think it is actually merciful to control their faithful by fear,subjugation, and violence. It works, too! It's still free will. You have the choice to steal, but your hand will be cut off. See! It's better to obey allah and keep your hand AND go to heaven.

If we Christians really believe that God is going to send the vast majority of humans to hell,we should be living like the muslims. Which is to say, like the puritans. For our own good. Right?

It seems to me that while the scriptures do not go into any detail on the statistics of who will be saved and who will be condemned, it is quite apparent from the face-value reading of the texts in the New Testament that the majority of people will not be saved. This does not impugn God’s mercy nor does it devalue Christ’s redemptive work on the cross. It merely demonstrates that man, through his free will, chooses to reject God’s salvific grace. If it is indeed true that the majority of people are saved, then Jesus seemed to allow his hearers to continually misunderstand him in this regard (since he didn’t correct them), and this teaching of the New Testament was simply a scare tactic. Paul goes to great lengths to the point of extreme suffering and risking his life to share the gospel with those who do not know Christ… seems rather foolish and reckless if the majority of people will be saved anyway.

According to Saint Anselem of Canterbury’s “Why God Became Man” Because one third of the angels fell, only one third of mankind will find God’s Kingdom. These souls are to replace the fallen angels and two thirds of mankind will fall into hell. If I am not mistaken by what I have read, St. Anselem said that the number of inhabitants of Heaven and hell(which is made of of souls and angels of both types) would equal each other. By my calculations the number of souls that will make it to Heaven are 40 billion and 80 billion souls will go to hell.

Praise God we are not required by the Church to believe these visions, locuctions or opinions of these Saints and "visionaries" as Gospel truth. A number of the saint quotes were taken out of context. How sad that Jansenism and rigiorism continue to exist.

As God said to the Ven. May of Agreda in "The Mystical City of God" in Book IV “The Coronation”, Chapter 2, pages 50-51”

“Whoever overcomes himself, the world and the demon, shall find Me a liberal, loving and mighty God; he shall possess all my goods and whatever through my Son and his Mother I have prepared for him; for I shall adopt him as my child and as an inheritor of my eternal glory. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, they shall have their portion in the pool burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. To all the sons of Adam I give my Onlybegotten as a Master, Redeemer, and Brother and his Mother as a Protectress, Mediatrix and Advocate powerful before Me; and as such I send Her again into the world, that all may understand how much I wish them to avail themselves of her protection. But those that do not overcome the repugnance of their flesh to suffering, or do not believe my testimonies and wonders wrought in their behalf, or those witnessed by my holy Scriptures; and those who, having believed, have entangled themselves in the base impurities of carnal delights, the sorcerers, idolaters, who forsake my true power and Divinity, following the demon; all those that work deceit and malice, shall have no other inheritance than what they thus choose for themselves. This will be the dreadful fire of hell, which is a pool of burning sulphur, full of darkness and stench, where for each of the damned there shall be different pains and torments according to the abominations committed by each one; but all of them shall be eternal and connected with the loss of the divine and beatific vision enjoyed by the saints. This shall be the second death, from which there shall be no salvation; because those overtaken by it have not availed themselves of the Redemption from the first death of sin through the Redeemer and his blessed Mother in grace.”

I , of course, do not know how many souls there are in hell. But, whenever I read an article about hell, I am very grateful that God established purgatory for all the souls who deep down do believe in and love God, but still have at least some attachment to the world.

This is all very depressing and frightening and it seems the odds are stacked aginst us all. Especially so when one considers that much more will be expected of us as practicing Catholics than anybody else. "not all who cry out Lord! Lord" will be saved".

Also, what seems to have been forgotten here by some posters is that the Church makes a marked distinction between "wilful ignorance" and "invincible ignorance." So there is great hope in my opinión that those who have been fooled- especially when done so from a young age- by the pervasive and delberately constucted climate of Godlessness (St Paul's "power and dominions") will in fact be saved as they are in a state of invincible ignorance. What Young person today can easily resist all the latest trends and notions which are constantly pushed on them?

My take is that we may be very surprised about WHO is saved rather than the numbers.

While some of the saints and visionaries have been quite strict and severe concerning salvation, others have emphasized God's mercy, like for example the "Divine Mercy" revelations given to St Faustina. We see God's infinite mercy also in many places in the Bible too with the stories of Jonah and Nineveh, the woman caught in adultery, etc.

One can see in the bible and the comments from the saints that with salvation God's justice and mercy are both in play.

"If you say the Rosary faithfully until death, I do assure you that, in spite of the gravity of your sins “you shall receive a never fading crown of glory.” Even if you are on the brink of damnation, even if you have one foot in Hell, even if you have sold your soul to the devil as sorcerers do who practise black magic, and even if you are a heretic as obstinate as a devil, sooner or later you will be converted and will amend your life and save your soul, if—and mark well what I say—if you say the Holy Rosary devoutly every day until death for the purpose of knowing the truth and obtaining contrition and pardon for your sins." St. Louis de Montfort

What we do know for sure, is that God's Mercy is infinite. He's given usso many tools to get to heaven. Sacraments, confession, indulgences etc.If we rely on his mercy and use the tools he's given us, heaven canbe ours. It's your faith that saves you. Have faith, Love, spread lovehelp others and Pray. God will save you.dchachere

While I choose to believe God's mercy is beyond my understanding I take a simple look around our world today and can not help but feel few will attain Heaven. Killing babies is allowed, even endorsed in our country, idols are worshipped through screens with celebrities, sports, and other vipers. We cannot comprehend a community where the Eucharist was a procession through main street where all prostrated or imagine having daily prayer services - that WAS the past world of holy peoples and is not us.

We measure a strictness based on today's world where yesterday not attending church was noticed. Today we support abortion, take God out of schools, vote for evil into our leaders, and worship idols. If our population was truly faithful few would be homeless or hungry but instead, a majority alter their bodies, save riches for a future that never comes, poison our temples, and curse our neighbors with the Almighty's name and believe we are still likely to choose Heaven. We will proceed to eternity as we have lived. Yes, there are many candles in the darkness, more than we know, but fewer than we hope.

A majority of us are the gladiator paid for celebrity or the audience cheering the game in the stadium, only a select number are absent from this game of satan and far few less sacrifice for their fellow man.

Myself, a sinner, prays that Our Lady keeps us under her mantle and hope I can continue to seek a virtuous faithful life I may be blessed to have enough time to become a soul who seeks Heaven and not the bronzed idols of this world.

At https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/most/getwork.cfm?worknum=65 the lateFr William Most, an internationally-acclaimed theologian and Scripture scholar, has some interesting notes on the no. of saved, and explains why many in the early Church took a pessimistic view on the no of saved.

He writes: "The general idea of the greater number of persons saved was also held earlier by Venerable Joseph of St. Benedict. As part of the process of canonization, 40 theologians were appointed to examine his writings along with other doctors elsewhere. None objected to his thesis."

On the internet Padre Pio is quoted as stating: "I believe that not a great number of souls go to hell. God loves us so much. He formed us at his image. God loves us beyond understanding."

Nevertheless, I am reminded that Our Lady of Fatima stated that many go to hell, but how are her words to be interpreted? For example, see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13005a.htm on the judgment to be given to private revelations.

Here is one quote from the article: In particular instances, these visionaries have been mistaken: thus Marie de Agreda teaches, like her contemporaries, the existence of crystal heavens, and declares that one must believe everything she says, although such an obligation exists only in the case of the Holy Scripture. In 1771 Clement XIV forbade the continuation of her process of beatification "on account of the book". Catherine Emmerich has likewise given expression to false or unlikely opinions: she regards the writings of the pseudo-Dionysius as due to the Areopagite, and says strange things about the terrestrial Paradise, which, according to her, exists on an inaccessible Mountain towards Tibet. If there be question of the general statement of facts given in these works, we can admit with probability that many of them are true. For these two visionaries led lives that were regarded as very holy. Competent authorities have judged their ecstasies as divine. It is therefore prudent to admit that they received a special assistance from God, preserving them not absolutely, but in the main, from error.

But in the bible it says in Acts of the Apostles, chapter 16 verse 31, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with everyone in your household.NLT. That hopefully would mean something...

How utterly, utterly depressing. Game over for most of us folks by the looks of it. What's the point of carrying on? Frankly, aren't we already brow-beaten enough by the world without mystics telling us that we are probably damned anyway. .....

Appears some Scripture should be considered and proclaimed in this article ... John 3:3 "Jesus answered, "I am telling you the truth: no one can see the Kingdom of God unless he is born again." - John 3:5 "I am telling you the truth," replied Jesus, "that no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit." - John 3:13-21 "And no one has ever gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from heaven." As Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the desert, in the same way the Son of Man must be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. For God loved the world so much that he gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him may not die but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to be its judge, but to be its savior. Whoever believes in the Son is not judged; but whoever does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in God's only Son. This is how judgment works: the light has come into the world, but people love the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds are evil. Anyone who does evil things hates the light and will not come to the light, because he does not want his evil deeds to be shown up. But whoever does what is true comes to the light in order that the light may show that what he did was in obedience to God." John 6:37-40 "Everyone whom my Father gives me will come to me. I will never turn away anyone who comes to me, because I havr come down from heaven to not my own will but the will of Him who sent me. And it is the will of Him who sent me that I should not lose any of all those He has given me, but that I would raise them all to life on the last day. For what my Father wants is all that who see the Son and believe in Him should have eternal life. And I will raise them to life on the last day." Joh 14:1-4 ""Do not be worried and upset," Jesus told them. "Believe in God and believe also in me. There are many rooms in my Father's house, and I am going to prepare a place for you. I would not tell you this if it were not so. And after I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to myself, so that you will be where I am, You know the way that leads to the place where I am going." - John 14:6 "Jesus answered Thomas, "I am the Way, the Truth,and the Life; no one goes to the Father except by me." Reference: Good News Bible (Catholic Study Edition)

Depressing??? Actually, for me what I personally took out of my research in creating and compiling this article is a deepened awareness in the gravity and importance of seeking to obtain salvation through avoidance and repentance of sin, along with endeavoring to increase my devotion, love and trust for Jesus and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Seems to me the Saints and Mystics want us to recognize the seriousness and gravity of the matter. -Just my take away anyway....Glenn Dallaire

I have often wondered about this subject myself. After much thought I have consoled myself this way..... God IS love. And most people have loved and have received love. Although they may not have had God first and foremost in mind - they have, "technically" speaking, experienced God and have not outright rejected him. Therefore I have concluded that most souls go to some level of purgatory first, followed by hell and then heaven.

As someone who grew up outside the faith, i can only say that the journey towards God has not been an easy one. Having spent two years in a religious order, i came away with more questions than answers. I have read most of the above private revelations. I think they are of value if it motivaes us to pray for others and help them seek God.I don't know that many people will be motivated to seek God based on these types of revelations. It would be good if we took them into account when we are tempted to sin. Unfortunately, we can often ponder such heavy judgment and wind up pushing all desires for God completely out of our minds, just to be comforted by tempoal thoughts that ultimately do us no lasting good. I do think that people are being done a great disservice because such little instruction exists on proper spiritual direction.

I do not doubt the good intentions of the author for one moment neither am I worthy to take issue with Doctors of the Church and mystics, but this article has given me a Deep sense of hopelessness and a profound misery. They are many millions of good people around the world seeking the kingdom of God and the same time failing miserably through human weakness.A litany of holy quotes asserting the condemnation of the vast majority is hardly encouraging to those who are struggling with sin (which is everbody) and especially those wishing to or have recently entered the Church. The Chruch exits for one reason and that is to bring us to heaven. If is is clearly failing to do that what are we to think? With respect this article is a direct assault on the virtue of hope despite the later quotations which came after several minutes of Reading quotations that brought the soul to a feeling of helplessness.

Just to bring this topic as up to date as possible, Mari Loli and Jacinta, two of the four visionaries of Garabandal, have gone on record (a letter, actually, that they wrote to a priest in Mexico, and which is quoted in "Garabandal, the Village Speaks")as saying that Our Lady told them "very few will see God, so few that it makes the Virgin sad."

As for the passage in the above article that the visionaries of Garabandal were shown a terrifying vision of Hell during the "Night of the Screams", that is actually incorrect (as the above book testifies, as well as some of the others). During the first night of the screams, they saw the coming world-wide Communist persecution of Catholics and Christians and the coming world-wide Warning;(that is, the Marxist-Bolshevism of the old Soviet Russian Union, not present day Catholic Russia under Vladimir Putin...to understand this, THOROUGHLY INFORM yourselves on the following topics that bring all of Our Lady's prophecies at Fatima and Garabandal to crystal-clear and horrifying light: Holodomor, the Frankfurt School, Tavistock Institute, loxism, and especially read thoroughly the incredibly-detailed and fully referenced and sourced website by Brother Nathanael Kapner, a Jew converted to Catholicism at realjewnews.com) On the second night of the screams, they saw the coming Chastisement that will destroy 75% of present-day mankind. And the screams on this second night were so bad that the entire village went to confession afterward because they thought the world was going to end that night. There was never a vision of Hell, although Our Lady did talk about it.

Thank Anonymous (directly above) for the correction concerning Garabandal! I got Garabandal and Fatima mixed up--it was in Fatima that the children were shown a vision of Hell, so I just corrected the article concerning this--thanks again!Glenn

While in charity I respect the good intentions of the author of this article, I agree with the last anonymous post that it can cause depression and a sense of hopelessness for those trying hard to please Our Lord, yet falling through weakness into sin, sometimes repeatedly. I would encourage readers to be invested in the brown Scapular of Carmel and to read up about the proper way of wearing it. It requires certain prayers to be said each day and a proper examination of conscience to be done, before confession, which involves first, praying to the Holy Spirit to ask him to,show us our sins. Then I would recommend Catholics to practice the devotion to Oir sorrowful mother; TAN books. It was recommended by Fr. Chad Ripperger amd involves praying a total of just seven HAIL Mary's per day in honour of Our Lady's sorrows. Concentrate while doing this and also request Our Lady to obtain for you the grace of sincere final perseverance. She will do it for you. Also, make a commitment to praying without fail ( unless sick) the chaplet of Divine Mercy each day preferably at 3:00pm and ask our Lord through the merits of His passion to obtain for you the grace of dying sheltered worthily in the chaplet of Divine Mercy, with its promises, in a state of grace. Study your Chatechism. Avoid ALL modern films which contain blasfemy, profanity, sex scenes etc. You can identify them before hand by doing a search on Google under " Parental Guide". No film is worth the loss of our souls. Also, avoid tabloid newspapers. They encourage gossip. Avoid friends who gossip etc. There is HOPE. God Bless everyone here.

Revelation 7:9-10"I saw a huge crowd, too huge to count. Everyone was there—all nations and tribes, all races and languages. And they were standing, dressed in white robes..."With the modern means of counting, nothing is impossible.Neverteheless, the Revelation says that the crowd was "too huge to count".This means that according to the apostle John the number of people who are saved matches God's Mercy: It's infinite.

For sure, practically no one in the West preaches "fire and brimstone" much anymore, therefore the devil benefits from this in numerous ways, particularly through denial of his very existence, and also the denial of hell itself. Personally, I love the idea of there being no hell whatsoever, and that everyone goes straight to heaven, but Church Dogma states otherwise.

It calls to mind the story of when someone told St Padre Pio that such-and-such a person did not believe in Hell, and Padre Pio responded, "He will believe it well enough when he gets there!"

Its unfortunate that some may be dismayed by the contemplation of hell and what the Saints and Mystics have said, however the "everyone goes to heaven" mentality nowadays is simply a false lie, and a very dangerous perspective. While I very much hope that the majority of humanity (eventually after purgatory) goes to heaven, I wouldn't make the mistake of falsely presuming it to be so. Such is the sin of Presumption.

Speaking of which, here is the definition of Presumption from Catholic Answers:"Presumption is a rash expectation of salvation without making proper use of the necessary means to obtain it."

Romans chapter 10 verse 9 said in the Douay Rheims bible 'For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thy heart that God raised Him up from the dead thou shalt be saved.'--I am sure that means something!

The message of Jesus is one of good news. For Mary to say that there are so few saved that it would make one faint in despair if he/she knew the number, sounds like exactly that - despair. Jesus and His Mother bring hope, not despair. Warnings in various apparitions are one thing, and done out of love and necessary, but a message like the one above almost sounds like it's meant to say "Don't even worry about it, because you likely won't make Heaven anyway." That sounds like a trick of Satan, so we need to be careful with these "messages." I also take note of how long ago they were supposedly given. One other important note, the Angel who appeared to the 3 Fatima children before they saw Mary, taught them the prayer "Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell. Lead ALL souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Your mercy. Amen." Notice the Angel said ALL souls, not MANY souls.

Glenn, thank you for this article. It is very helpful to reread some of what we have heard over the years about the reality of Heaven and hell; and of course by the Mercy of God, the safety net of Purgatory to catch many of us who could risk eternal loss without the chance to be purified and saved in Purgatory.

I call Purgatory God's jail. Somewhere to repay and repair for our transgressions while in exile, if we fail to make reparation in our lifetime.

I hope people will not feel hopeless or despair on account of their sins and transgressions. Jesus came into this world precisely to save sinners, yes, He came for you and me who fall into sin. And all He asks us to do is admit our failures and ask for His forgiveness. He has guaranteed His Mercy and Pardon when we ask with a sincere heart. When we resolve to amend our lives.

Take heart all of you.

And I have always been encouraged by Our Lady of Fatima who when giving us the prayer; Oh Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Thy Mercy.

Our Lady told the children at Fatima, many souls are lost because they have no one to pray for them. the prayer above is especially to help souls who are lost and have no one to pray for them. It is said after each decade of the Rosary.

Let's all just stop worrying about the number or percentage of souls who might be lost. Let's all say the Fatima prayer as Our Lady advised. And God will do the rest. That is save as many souls as possible. We are all His precious children. Amen.

I cannot argue with the many points given saying most will go to hell. But yes, for the same reasons, I find it hard to believe a loving and merciful God would condemn so many. And yes, God condemns. I dont know which book, but in one of the Old Testament books, God says, "I take no joy on condemning a man" But, Gods Justice supercedes His Mercy. Otherwise, Jesus would not have had to die. Also remember, God Himself left His glory in Heaven to become a mere Man. He lived a very humble life, and died a horrible death. God did this. What more could you ask? We have been given a way, in spite of our unworthiness. Also, in addition to all this, there is purgatory. Thank God for that! Purgatory is a scary place, but exists for one reason only. I think vast numbers of us will spend our time in purgatory first. Like, I think it was St. Paul who wrote that we would enter naked, as if after passing through a fire. I think many have, and will, repent and be forgiven, but still need to face just punishment. Thats what prayer, fasting and penance are for. And indulgences. I hope I get at least a robe and a place by the fire. As for hell being "greater" more does not make it greater. I remember seeing a quote once, that Jesus would have died on the cross even just for you alone. Certainly there are more than that. But most? Heaven is a City On A Hill. It is eternal, and a great reward. Is it for everyone? Would you want to share a Heaven with Hitler? And others I can name who are now living..... such as abortionists. Only a few will go straight to paradise. Most will be cleansed first in purgatory. But I think a significant percentage will end in hell. As Jefferson said of America long ago, "I fear for my Country when I know that God is Just" We know the rules.

If you do a search on total number of people who have lived, you will get a number around 108 billion in the last 50,000 years. Since we actually know history from the bible, man has only been around for 6000 years and the beginning started with only two and after the flood only a few survived. Based on that you can estimate the total population ever to have lived at 108/50*6 = 12 billion. With the antichrist about to show up soon, and God's wrath for our sins taking out 2/3 of the population and then a 1000 years of peace, I doubt the earth population will ever reach 120 billion where 40 billion go to heaven and 80 billion go to hell. The road may be narrow but there are no tolls on it. When you look across the world with the number of Hindus, Buddhist, and other non christian religions, then yes there appears to be quit a few souls not entering Heaven.

Jesus is not talking about how many go to Heaven or Hell at all. First the disciples ask him if there will be few that will be saved? Who is asking? Jewish men who believe in the law of moses. So will pagans be saved? NO!!!! Second, Jesus has not died on the cross and risen from the dead at that point, neither did the disciples understand that what the rising from the dead meant. Nor did they have any idea that the temple would be destroyed in A.D. 70 and the Levitical priesthood would be done away with along with temple sacrifice. Nor did they have any idea about the "new" covenant or "new" testament. So what the disciples are REALLY asking is this..." we believe that you are probably the long awaited and promised messiah. We don't quite understand how and when you are going to reveal yourself to the entire world and "restore the kingdom to Israel".....but when you do.... will there be few who will be saved???? In other words, ( HOW MANY JEWS WILL ACCEPT YOU AS THE TRUE MESSIAH????) and Jesus replies that "few will" …...for accepting him as messiah will not be popular, easy, and in the end is going to get most of them killed. most will take the "easy" way and stay with the old covenant, the temple and be destroyed along with it. Jesus was NOT saying what the FINAL TALLY would be at the last judgement. As for private revelation, one must take into consideration the world at that time and the fact that most private revelation is meant for that particular person and the way in which God was working through their individual life. It is not necessarily meant to be put on the level with SACRED SCRIPTURE, SACRED TRADITION OR MAGESTERIAL TEACHING. I hope this clears this up once and for all. Michael J. Cretaro…..Canastota, NYmichaelcretaro123@twc.comThank you and God Bless you. P.S. Go to Confession, Pray the Rosary, Have masses said for the souls of the departed, Say the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, Go to Sunday Mass and Eucharistic Adoration and guess what...we will see each other in Heaven. Bet on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This article got extra traction as it was the lead aticle in Spirit Daily yesterday. It's hardly fair on struggling Catholics, hence I quote this from Sister Maria Natalia Magdolna (1901- 1992)

She had read in a book "that souls were falling into hell like snowflakes in Winter". She began to cry and Jesus said to her: "Do not weep, because this has come form the evil spirit which wants to denigrate the Merciful Love of My Father. Understand, my daughter, that if the souls fell into Hell as fall the flakes of snow in Winter, My Father would never have created man. But He created him because He wanted to pour down on his creatures the happiness of the Holy Trinity. (...) Only fall into Hell those souls which reject God even in the last moment of their existence. But the soul which, even just before leaving the body, would only just say with repentence "My God, be merciful with me", this soul has already delivered himself from Hell".

Don't be downcast by this long list of quotes. The one I have supplied might be a rememdy. Internet articles are often not read past the headline or the first few lines and I hope not too many have opened this article and have not gone to the end. Some sign of hope or at least a good dose of positiveness should have been dumped in the first paragraph.

Although I think the question should be limited to our own perspective and not to define it from God's perspective (i.e. not actually predicting an absolute truth as a defined proportion of those who end up in Hell or not).

All we need to know is:

1) We are not worthy to go to Heaven in our own right. Hell is what we deserve.

2) God wants no one in Hell

3) Jesus provides the free gift of Mercy and love to which we have total faith. (We simultaneous hold an understanding of our utter need for His mercy with faith in our salvation through His love and Mercy)

4) We have been created for God's glory, so the number of people in Hell will be the 'perfect' number, few or most. Because we have been created for God's glory ending up in Hell is a distinct possibility if we do not agree to magnify His Glory. I suspect a death bed conversion will require repentance and not just remorse (i.e calling on the name of the Lord asking for Mercy).

5) We can judge no one as deserving of Hell (we don't know How Jesus judges anyone even if the Gospels are quite specific and gives us good reason to be every cautious of some people)

Stop kidding yourselves. All non-Catholics and most Catholics are damned. We are living in a bucket of happy horseshit. Saint Leonard of Port Maurice told the truth. Let us not be fooled by the protestant heretics, or the pagan religionists, or the "Catholic" Apostates of the past 60 years. The Catholic Faith is true, few have it and fewer still can find a way to practice it under the present Masonic (read: Satanic) occupation of the Church hierarchy, and thus the opportunity for salvation now is at a tiny pinch-point. Let us act accordingly and as Saint Leonard warned us, strive to be among the "fewest of the few."

I love all the comments about Sister Mary of Agreda and the Mystical City of God. I truly believe its inspired by God and it changed my life. God is both love and Mercy. He will be victorious over death and demons and Hell. Mercy is the greatest victory and gift God has in store for us. Until our dying breath we can chose God and cry out to him to save us and he will. We might be in purgatory till the end of time but the Lord will WIN! Heaven will have 3/4the more people than He'll. The world will not come to an end until Heaven is filled to the brim!

When the disciples heard this,they were greatly astounded and said , "then who can be saved?"But Jesus looked at them and said, "For mortals it is impossible,but for God all things are possible." I'd trust in God and not in ourselves.

I have very little faith in the "visions" of Roman Catholic seers. Jesus said that by the fruit of the tree, you can know whether the tree is good or bad. As I look down the corridors of history at the fruit of the Roman Catholic hierarchy, I see nothing but bad fruit after 1054 AD when the schism occurred. Therefore, I have little faith in the teachings of the Roman Magisterium (which is why I am Orthodox in theology). Bad interpretations of Scripture, bad anthropology (Augustinianism), bad mixing of politics with religion, which made the popes, starting with Leo IX think they had a divine right to rule the world, and bad moral behavior. And don't forget that Satan himself appears as an angel of light according to Scripture.

For the first three centuries of the Church, the Fathers of the unified Church taught apokatastasis, that is, the understanding that God will bring all to eventual repentance and restoration - some through repentance and ascesis here and now, and some through the fire of His love (what St. Isaac the Syrian described as "the scourgings of love.)

In seminary I learned about the culture of the Roman Empire of Christ's time and the effect that culture had upon the view of the Scriptures. The Roman mindset was and continues to be consumed with the ideas of law, the breaking of law, and punishment. This idea is found in all the "visions" of the seers and mystics. In the Roman West, the "visions" of those who claim to have had them are uniformly about God as vengeful Judge taking His revenge upon sinners. In the East, the focus is on God as heavenly Father administering medicine to a sick child.

It is not without reason that Calvinism devolved from Roman Catholicism. Calvinism, with a God who created mankind with the teleological end of sending just about all of them into eternal torment. After all, God creates things to achieve their proper end, does He not? And if God cannot bring souls to that proper end, then He is weak and helpless, isn't He? But since all things are possible with God, and since His holy will (to save all, not just a few 1 Tim. 2:4) cannot be thwarted by mere creatures, then either God's will was to create beings to be damned forever, or it is to save all. You cannot escape the logic in this.

Medieval Roman Catholicism is the place where Augustine's wretched anthropological musings took real root and bloomed into a tree bearing such fruits as Dante's Inferno and the various visions of mystics who saw just about all souls going to an eternal hell of punishment.

If this is an all-powerful God of love, then no wonder pagans still find Christianity unattractive. At least Muslims are honest about their "god" of hatred towards everyone.

Thank you rishEddieOHara, I to have trouble with the "Massa Damnata: of St. Augustine.

Dom Bosco, whom I believe to be a great saint, had a number of dreams, which many take to be some sort of revelation from God, when in fact the dreams that people focus on going against the New Testament......in his dreams it shows God the Father, chasing young children, or perhaps teenagers in to hell in great wrath towards a city behind walls of fire.....I guess it is the city of Dis as depicted in inferno by Dante. I believe that these dreams have harmed many Catholics who are scrupulous by nature, leading many to despair. These are dreams, that is all. I do believe that souls go to hell, but they go because they willfully reject God's love.....In the story of the Prodigal Son, goes against such a dream. Can you imagine the terror that it places in peoples hearts, to think that an Infinite Being will chase them into hell and torture them for eternity, in a fit of human rage, just inilnite in nature?

Part of Dom Bosco's dream:

I looked up in terror and saw in the distance someone racing down the path at an uncontrollable speed. I kept my eyes on him, trying to identify him, and as he got closer, I recognized him as one of my boys. His disheveled hair was partly standing upright on his head and partly tossed back by the wind. His arms were outstretched as though he were thrashing the water in an attempt to stay afloat. He wanted to stop, but could not. Tripping on the protruding stones, he kept falling even faster. "Let's help him, let's stop him," I shouted, holding out my hands in a vain effort to restrain him.

"Leave him alone," the guide replied.

"Why?"

"Don't you know how terrible God's vengeance is? Do you think you can restrain one who is fleeing from His just wrath?"

Meanwhile, the youth had turned his fiery gaze backward in an attempt to see if God's wrath were still pursuing him. The next moment he fell tumbling to the bottom of the ravine and crashed against the bronze portal as though he could find no better refuge in his flight.

"Why was he looking backward in terror?" I asked.

"Because God's wrath will pierce Hell's gates to reach and torment him even in the midst of fire!"

As the boy crashed into the portal, it sprang open with a roar, and instantly a thousand inner portals opened with a deafening clamor as if struck by a body that had been propelled by an invisible, most violent, irresistible gale. As these bronze doors -- one behind the other, though at a considerable distance from each other -- remained momentarily open, I saw far into the distance something like furnace jaws sprouting fiery balls the moment the youth hurtled into it. As swiftly as they had opened, the portals then clanged shut again. For a third time I tried to jot down the name of that unfortunate lad, but the guide again restrained me. "Wait," he ordered.

"Watch!"

Three other boys of ours, screaming in terror and with arms outstretched, were rolling down one behind the other like massive rocks, I recognized them as they too crashed against the portal. In that split second, it sprang open and so did the other thousand. The three lads were sucked into that endless corridor amid a long-drawn, fading, infernal echo, and then the portals clanged shut again. At intervals, many other lads came tumbling down after them. I saw one unlucky boy being pushed down the slope by an evil companion. Others fell singly or with others, arm in arm or side by side. Each of them bore the name of his sin on his forehead. I kept calling to them as they hurtled down, but they did not hear me. Again the portals would open thunderously and slam shut with a rumble. Then, dead silence!

Apocatastasis was condemned at the Council of Constantinople in 453. The Church 'Father', Origen, was excommunicated after his death for some of his teachings. ( if this web site is correct https://orthodoxwiki.org/Apocatastasis ).

That is such a well worded point. I couldn't agree with you more. If God in his grace has overcome everything, why would he let so many be lost forever. Even Adam who contained God's Will and discarded it for the misery of the human will was not lost.

Thank you so much for your understanding. I as a practicing Catholic have been reading all of the visions and seers and was having a real hard time believing it all. That is not the Jesus I know. The fruit of all those visions is homelessness and despair which is the fruit of the devil. So I agree with you completely about the view you have about the Roman Catholic Church. Through your point I now have an interest in researching the orthodox faiths, and see if they have that forgiving father that brings all to himself. Please share your faith if you would.

Stephen Garland. This is actually untrue. Theif condemnations against apokatastasis came not from the council but from Emperor Justinian, who interfered with the council and forced them to add an additional nine canons in 5:43 AD. These cannons were not part of the original Council and the original canons. Emperor Justinian felt that if people believe in Universal Sunalvation they would become lazy, indolent, and sinful.

The council was called to condemn some of Origins other strange ideas such as the pre-existence of souls and also the canons of the original Council were against sweater called the Three Chapters. You need to do some historical research on this.

But more than this, what kind of monster God do you believe in who would create sentient beings, knowing they would fail and fall into sin, and then plan to torture and torment them forever? How does God, foreknowing sin, create beings who He knows we'll send without having aplan to eradicate that's in and rescue them all?

I sincerely thank all those who have commented thusfar--many off the comments have been very interesting and thought provoking.

When reflecting on this topic of Salvation, this writer wonders: Perhaps the holy men and women of old often over-emphasized God's Justice, while today it appears that most emphasize God's Mercy, while in reality BOTH Justice and Mercy are in play and together are in the balance.

Its interesting to note that in Christian Art, Judgement is often depicted with the image of a Scale, signifying the balance between God's Justice and Mercy.

After reading this article with its terrifying thoughts on God's Justice and its comforting thoughts on God's Mercy, I prayed the Fatima prayer with renewed and vigorous devotion: O my Jesus, forgive us our sins; Save us from the fires of hell; Lead all souls to Heaven, Especially those most in need of Your Mercy.

I just do not proclaim to know the mind and will of God, the truth of things, as you do; to be able to say that the eternal damnation of lost souls and lost angels in Hell would be an act of a monster God. I suggest you are in very dangerous territory.

To all those attracted to the idea that all are saved, remember there is overwhelming evidence in the Bible to suggest otherwise.

Secondly, we are created for God's glory, to actually Magnify His Glory. For that to happen we have to freely agree to be part of God's Kingdom and share and witness His love. We can not agree to anything if there is no choice, a clear yes or a clear no. There is no choice to make if we are all saved. If you think you don't have to make a clear decision you are in trouble. That is why we are told to love God with everything we have, mind, heart, and soul with all our strength.

Being a very nice person, expecting everyone to be in Heaven, is not a yes for God but a yes for our own sentimentality (self-indulgence is not a ticket to Heaven)

If everyone will be saved, why did God give us freewill? The creation of robots or sock puppets would have been good enough. God of course wants true agreement and worship. Without freewill and a clear choice and decision on our part, there would be no reason for suffering in this life and no reason for Jesus to come as true man and true God.

To argue that all are saved is an attack on our Faith that we can only be saved through the free gift provided by the Sacrifice of Jesus. The more I think about it, the more I realise how repulsive the suggestion that all are saved really is!

My understanding is that at the moment of death, we see our souls much like a reflection in a mirror and we know where we belong. Those in hell see it as the place most suited for their condition and they hurl themselves into the pit of fire.

Going straight to heaven is attainable for all practicing Catholics. God does not withhold any Grace's for this to be accomplished in us. The Last Rites, if received with the proper dispsitdispo of accepting God's final end for our time here on Earth, removes all temporal punishment due to sin.To die as a Saint means to die to ouselves daily so that our wills become so rooted in the love of God that we are glad to be free from the very body that continually pulls us away from perfect union with God

When you die, you would have, according to the grim figures supplied by St Leonard of Port Maurice, a 99.995% chance of falling over the precipice into hell (though on a day when two great saints died, their deaths reduced the daily average of the damned to a mere 99.985%.

Maria Simma, featured on this wonderful website, provided a more consoling reminder of God's mercy.

"On another occasion, Bishop Carta visited Padre Pio’s monastery and brought a friend with him, an officer from the province of Cagliari, in Sardinia. Bishop Carta told Padre Pio that his friend wanted to “be assured of a ticket to Paradise.” He asked him for his thoughts on the matter. Padre Pio said simply, “Here we need Our Lady, we need Our Lady.”

The mystics do not speak different from God. As catholics we have the bible. Let's look at the book of Matt.7 13-14. It says,go in through the narrow gate for the road to hell is wild and easy,many will go through it. While the road to heaven is narrow and hard to find. Few people finds it.

Notice how many people here are utterly dismayed at the idea of the vast majority of human beings going to an eternal place of suffering! Notice how many comments are made that if this is the best that Christ's awful Passion on the Cross can achieve, then this ain't much of a victory, is it? Notice how many people sense that God's love is greater than the constant condemnations of the Roman Catholic Church! Notice how many people remind us that these visions are not required for belief!!

Remember that St. Paul warned us that there are evil spirits that appear as "angels of light."

Francisco - You need to read the verses in the Bible in context!. To whom is Jesus speaking in Matthew? Matthew is the Gospel to the Jews. It is Christ presenting Himself to Israel as Messiah. Everything in Matthew pertains primarily to the Jews, and many verses that appear in Matthew appear nowhere else because they are primarily Jewish in nature. Much of the warnings, such as Matthew 23-25, are directed specifically towards the Jewish people and the coming Destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Jesus is speaking about the coming fullness of the Kingdom and warning those who are listening that if they do not repent, they will not enter into it, but will be caught up in the Destruction of Jerusalem, a time in which over 1 million Jews in Jerusalem were killed and the rest taken into captivity.

Stephen Garland - We were not just created for God's glory. We have been created to share in the divine nature and become gods. We were created to enter into and enjoy forever the love of the Blessed Trinity. Your view of God is very highly Western and almost Calvinist in nature. There is no idea of the love of God, the divinization of mankind, or becoming gods in the view of Calvinists. We are just slaves and not sons of God. I know this because I accepted Calvinist heresy as truth for 12 years.

As for your warning to me - how am I in danger when I refuse to accept that my loving heavenly Father, of whom it is said "was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself" would act in such a horrendous manner as to damn the majority of the world and to take delight in it, as Thomas Aquinas said??? Such a "god" would indeed be more like the monster gods of the pagans than our Father who loves us.

I suggest you get a good cigar and a fine glass of brandy and sit and meditate on what the word "love" means. At this time, you seem to have no clue.

I would like to hope that the majority of humanity would be saved. Yet, as Truth himself has said: "Many go through the wide gate and few through the narrow gate". I do not see how this simple phrase can be misunderstood and its sense it's completely clear. So, in my modest and simple opinion, I stand with the saints, believing that the great majority will not be saved.I think we fail to understand that it is not GOD that condemn us but WE that chose our own desires instead of doing in everything the will of God. Every time we do not follow God's law we follow OUR OWN and we say to God, "I will not serve". It may seem we sin out of ignorance, frailty, etc..., but actually we do know full well when we are not following what divine law requires of us. So, when death arrives,our disposition is basically the same as it was in life. We tend to think we are all good guys, but God is also infinite Justice and that Justice has to act in full. We will see (according to many mystics) all our faults in the light of that Justice, and according to it, the soul itself prefers to cast itself in hell, since the soul will have to act according to Justice. I think we have to take into account 2 things. When Lucifer said "I will not serve", he did so in full knowledge of his choice. I believe when souls come to the presence of God, their will is exerted in the same way, souls will stick to their disposition in life. I mean, let's be honest. LOADS of people believe abortion is fine, euthanasia is fine, nothing wrong to act on homosexual desires, nothing wrong to live in second unions when one's marriage is still valid, and so on and so on, and all these LOADS of people believe they are good people (many calling themselves good catholics even) and that we are all going to heaven. In all these things, even if we believe ourselves to be good catholics, one is NOT FOLLOWING God's will. And they all know it full well. So, when death comes, those souls will be in the same disposition, and they will know full well they were not serving God but themselves. So, how would it be just for those souls to be saved after death when they had decided to follow their own desires? That would mean that actually nobody would have to strive for sanctity ("Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect) since their salvation would be assured. To my knowledge that is called Relativism and is condemned by the Church as heresy.The second thing to remember is that of the two thieves being crucified with Christ, Jesus only assured one of salvation. Why? Because he was both humble in recognizing is guilt, defending Christ's innocence and divinity, and he asked Jesus to remember him (he didn't even dare to ask for forgiveness) - And Christ promptly declared that he would be in paradise that same day.Why? From the mystic's revelations, one has to understand that the fullness of the truth was only being revealed at that time by the WORD OF GOD, Christ, so, God's justice was a little less demanding on that account. But, after God's truth was fully revealed by Christ, nobody else has the excuse of ignorance. That means, when we commit a sin nowadays, we do it with full knowledge and we actively say: "I do not want to serve".If that is our disposition in life, so it will be in death. Let's all pray to prefer God's will to our own and strive to do it in all things. Only in that way, salvation is assured, by God's grace.

Luis, I like your comment but I have a question for you. Who said the wide gate was to hell? I seem to have missed that in the Gospel. Mary and other mystics have said that very few go straight to heaven (the narrow gate) and that the vast majority have to go to purgatory. Mary has also shown many of the mystics and visionaries the various levels of purgatory. Because we have free will there has to be hell but hell is someplace freely chosen. Again as I said in my first post, I dare to hope that all will someday get to participate in the Divinity, discovering God’s mercy and Love. There are none of us, save Mary, who will get to heaven if we are judged solely by God’s justice. That would imply that we can earn a place in heaven. All who demand justice will get justice not mercy!

Luis - I find this is the problem with Roman Catholic thinking. It is entirely bound up in ideas of justice and by doing so, misses the greater thing, which is the fact that God is love. If God is love, He can only act in love.

Tell me why it would be unjust of God to allow for chastisement of souls after death and their subsequent repentance. After all, 1 Timothy 2:4 states that it is the will of God that all repent and be saved. Does God bring to pass all His holy will, or does the puny will of man somehow trump God's will? If that is so, then how are we ever assured that God's will is done, especially in hard circumstances?

Jesus speaks:"To purify the world the first time, My Father sent the Deluge to bathe the world with water; the second time He ordained that it be bathed with blood, and with what Blood! Neither the first nor the second Purification was sufficient to transform mankind into the children of God. Now the Father is weary and allows the scourges of hell to break forth, so as to destroy the human race because men have preferred hell to Heaven. Their master, Lucifer, tor¬tures them, in order to incite them to curse Us, making them so completely his own children.I would come again to die for them a second time, to save them from an even more terrible death... but My Father will not allow Me to do so... My Love would allow it, but Justice will not. Justice knows that it would be use¬less. Therefore, I will come only at the last hour. But woe to those who will see Me after they have chosen Lucifer as their Lord! My Angels will need no weapons in their hands to win the battle against these antichrists. My Look will be enough!Oh, if men would once more learns to turn to Me, Who am their Salvation! That is all I desire. If I cry, it is be¬cause I see there is nothing I can do to make them look to¬wards Heaven, from where I am stretching out My Hands to them.Suffer, Maria, and tell good souls to suffer, to take the place of My second Martyrdom, which the Father does not want Me to accomplish. To every one who offers himself as victim, will be given the salvation of some souls. Some... and it is not to be wondered at, if those souls given to each little redeemer are but few, when one reflects that at the hour of My Immolation on Calvary, from amongst all the thousands of people present at My Death, I, the Divine Redeemer, succeeded in saving only the good thief, Longi¬nus and so few others..."(Notebooks, pp. 83-84, Good Friday, April 23rd, 1943)

Hello "Unknown",With a respect and in all sincerity--did you read the entire article? I ask because the "nearly infinite " chance of hell?" quote is not even in the article--that is from someone's personal comment beneath the article. The emphasis of article itself is definitely upon the infinite mercy of Jesus, and the infinite value of His passion and death.

To all the people commenting as to the effect of 'what is the point of trying , as we are damned anyway? ' - This kind of thought does not come from God. Despair is something which the enemy plants in us, so that we will stop trying . If we sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness , Jesus will forgive us . Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved . But it needs to be sincere and, we must have true contrition . God knows the deepest thoughts inside us. God is merciful and is love. He is just too . Do not ever despair. His mercy is endless .

So all, while we must be careful to strive by the narrow gate, the scrupulous tenor of articles and posts regarding the Fewness of the Saved may lead some to despair. Please think about, and pray over, St. Leonard's sermon (and do we know it's valid?)....of 35,000 people, 5 were saved. In 1800, over 40% of children did not live past the age of 5 worldwide (https://ourworldindata.org/childmortality).... So these children, many of whom were baptized, were all lost? If St. Leonard did give this sermon, and the numbers quoted are accurate, then we can say with certainty that this is not a representative sample of those who died at that moment. Not unless our Lord condemns baptized children before the age of reason.

And while we're at it, many "Fewness of the Saved" proponents like to remind readers that at Fatima, Mary said that one of the seers' friends who had died was in Purgatory until the end of time. I believe this is true. But what is often left out was that this friend had, apparently, lived an immoral life and was somewhere between 18 - 20 years old....the point being, this was not a child, but rather a young adult on an errant course, to whom such a punishment was given.

So please, pursue logic and facts prior to commenting, and pray we all live by the Commandments, confess often, love God with all our hearts and minds, and treat others as we wish to be treated.

This is a very interesting discussion. What is absolutely true is that none of us knows how many are saved, nor do we know how many are condemned to eternal fire. This I do know: that it is incumbent on us to "seek first the Kingdom of God", to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength", and to "love your neighbor as yourself" for love of God, and to keep the commandments. This means, to me, that my role is to intercede for everyone God places in my path, that they may come to know the saving love of Jesus, and to be united to his mystical bride, the Church. Some need to hear the terrible news that not many are saved. Others need to know that our Lord is infinitely merciful, and that he seeks out the lost soul. It is always good to recall St Paul's statement that our Lord came to sacrifice himself for us while we were yet all sinners, to save at least some of us. The fall was a catastrophe for us, but what incredible love God has shown us in becoming incarnate, living among us, dying for us, and himself becoming the very gate of paradise. May God bless all of us with the efficacious graces to do His will here on earth so that we may share eternity with Him in heaven.

Let us not forget devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. This is a sure way to salvation. Reciting the Litany of the Sacred Heart every Friday will instill a love of the Sacred Heart. Having an image of the Sacred Heart and making the sign of the cross before it on a daily basis is a very helpful practice to instill this devotion. A good thing to do is to make a little altar in your home and put images of the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart along with some holy candles there. I use the top of my chest of drawers for that. The spiritual rewards of this devotion are inestimable. May the Sacred Heart of Jesus be always loved and honored! May more souls be drawn to this devotion!

This is a deeply troubling topic, but it's one that needs to be faced. And in facing it, the "what"--that is to say, the proportion of damned to saved--is not nearly as important for us as the "why."

An earlier comment in this thread referenced a famous(/infamous) sermon by St Leonard of Port Maurice. (http://www.olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml) I think it is worth taking a close look at what that saint had to say about the Church's surest means of forgiveness--the Sacrament of Reconciliation, which most Catholics nowadays don't even use!--and about last rites:

If you consider the sacrament of penance, there are so many distorted confessions, so many studied excuses, so many deceitful repentances, so many false promises, so many ineffective resolutions, so many invalid absolutions! Would you regard as valid the confession of someone who accuses himself of sins of impurity and still holds to the occasion of them? Or someone who accuses himself of obvious injustices with no intention of making any reparation whatsoever for them? Or someone who falls again into the same iniquities right after going to confession? Oh, horrible abuses of such a great sacrament! One confesses to avoid excommunication, another to make a reputation as a penitent. One rids himself of his sins to calm his remorse, another conceals them out of shame. One accuses them imperfectly out of malice, another discloses them out of habit. One does not have the true end of the sacrament in mind, another is lacking the necessary sorrow, and still another firm purpose. Poor confessors, what efforts you make to bring the greater number of penitents to these resolutions and acts, without which confession is a sacrilege, absolution a condemnation and penance an illusion?

Where are they now, those who believe that the number of the saved among Christians is greater than that of the damned and who, to authorize their opinion, reason thus: the greater portion of Catholic adults die in their beds armed with the sacraments of the Church, therefore most adult Catholics are saved? Oh, what fine reasoning! You must say exactly the opposite. Most Catholic adults confess badly at death, therefore most of them are damned. I say "all the more certain," because a dying person who has not confessed well when he was in good health will have an even harder time doing so when he is in bed with a heavy heart, an unsteady head, a muddled mind; when he is opposed in many ways by still-living objects, by still-fresh occasions, by adopted habits, and above all by devils who are seeking every means to cast him into hell. Now, if you add to all these false penitents all the other sinners who die unexpectedly in sin, due to the doctors' ignorance or by their relatives' fault, who die from poisoning or from being buried in earthquakes, or from a stroke, or from a fall, or on the battlefield, in a fight, caught in a trap, struck by lightning, burned or drowned, are you not obliged to conclude that most Christian adults are damned?

Hello Glenn. Can you please explain more why you think that most people go to purgatory? You said that you have been reading for 25 years and I would really appreciate what brings you hope that most of humanity goes to purgatory instead of hell. In addition if you believe that most people go to purgatory then why did the saints have mystical experiences to the contrary? Are they just simply misunderstanding their experience? I personally am having a lot of anxiety about my own salvation and my family members salvation.

Are there any saints who had mystical experiences,( church approved) that claimed most people to to purgatory?

To reply, my own personal thoughts vis-a-vis most souls go to Purgatory is essentially a synopsis and conclusion of my various spiritual readings up to this point--I reiterate again however that this is my own personal conclusion, and is not authoritative in any way. From the perspective of Holy Scripture and also of many mystics, I think that the article above provides both sides of the coin, so to speak.

Thanks again for your comments and may God bless you and your loved ones.-Glenn

Hi Glenn, I hope you and your family are well. My follow up question is; if most people go to purgatory then what are we to make of the fact that many saints had experiences that most people go to hell? Did the saints make a mistake in their report of their experience? Maybe they confused the lower level of purgatory with hell? What are your thoughts?

Anonymous - Do we go by exepriences, or do we go by Holy Tradition and the Sacred Scriptures? We are warned in Sacred Scripture about "angels of light" who are demons posing as God's angels. What proof do you have that the saints are somehow immune from being deceived by such visions?

Sacred Scripture gives us any number of verses which state pretty clearly that God will have mercy on all (Romans 11:32), that it is His will to save all (1 Timothy 2:4), that the death, burial, and glorious Resurrection of Christ has saved all (Romans 5: 12 -19), etc. If I have Scripture saying one thing, and a saint has a vision which says another thing ... then we have a contradiction. How do we determine who is correct? I would say that Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition trump any vision anyone might have.

And as for Holy Tradition, for the first 500 years of the Church, there were three schools of theology which taught Apokatastasis, the restoration of all things. For five hundred years. And yet, with such an important subject being taught, there was no council called to dispute this teaching. Surely that is something to think about also.

Finally, you give mystics of the Church who teach that only a very few shall be saved. I can also give you mystics who taught that all shall eventually be saved - some here and now and some through the fires of purgation in the next life. So here's a final question:

which teaching is more in line with the verse that says "God is love." A God who not only is powerful enought to save all, but will find a way to do it in His omniscience, or a God who creates men knowing that they will die and be eternally tormented.

The first sounds like our loving heavenly Father.The second sounds like the "gods" of paganism, such as Zeus.

Hi Jacob,Yes--I think it is possible and even very likely that certain mystics have misinterpreted the lower parts of Purgatory for hell, and the reason I believe this is the case is twofold:1) Sr. Josefa Mendez experience wherein she was mystically taken to what she thought was surely hell, and was told (much to her amazement) that she was actually witnessing was the lowest part of purgatory. To her what she was witnessing was hellish in its suffering.

2) My understanding of the layout of the "Kingdom" which I believe consists of 5 parts, which are from top to bottom:HeavenTerrestrial Kingdom (Garden of Eden)EarthPurgatoryHell

Each are separated from each other, (the "great chasm" as we read in Luke 16:26), though each or all are directly influenced by the other. So, in the arrangement described above, since the lower parts of purgatory are close to hell, hell itself likely greatly influences the sufferings in the lower parts of purgatory. Hence the possible misperceptions of those mystics who have been "taken" there.

Again, the latter description is my own understanding of what I have read, and therefore should be taken as only my own perception of things.

And obviously the point of these mystical visits to purgatory/hell are to relate the sufferings and even horrors of those who lived lives of serious sin without much contrition or repentance. As related in the article, the purpose was/is to essentially "scare the hell" out of the audience of such events, that one might repent of one's sins (especially grave sins) and endeavor not to commit further sins in the future.

Part 1I've recently come back to the Church (Advent 2019) after 20 years of ignoring God, despite being given a truly terrific education in the Catholic faith by my parents, Catholic schools and by many priests and nuns. All of which is really rare in today's world. It makes me wonder how I could have been so blind for so long and marvel at the mercy of God in dragging me back into his fold. That being said, my following explanation is mine alone and based on vague remembrances of the over twenty years of solid Catholic formation.

I seem to remember asking about justification and thinking about it often, along with Limbo, Abraham's Bosom, the Abyss and Purgaotry. ( The story about the poor man in heaven and the rich man who ignored him in life asking from across the Abyss for some relief. I recall sloppily, the poor man said to the rich man "You did not help me in life and walked past me every day so I will not help you. There is a great Abyss that separates you and I." ) Particularly in regards to Jesus's descent into Hell (the Dead, Abraham's Bosom), virtuous pagans, unbaptized children, these questions are complicated. I asked a lot of questions. I am very arrogant and annoying.

Part IIAnyway, at one time in the Church, Hell was meant to mean Abraham's Bosom, Limbo, Purgatory and the everlasting fire (Lake of Fire, Gehenna etc.) for the damned. So earlier recitations of the creed (I forget which one) said, "Jesus descended into Hell" between his death and resurrection but today we more often say "Jesus descended to the dead" which is Abraham's Bosom where the righteous saints before Jesus' Passion and Death were resting until the Gates of Heaven were opened by Jesus' sacrifice. Sometimes, Abraham's Bosom is called Limbo. It's been viewed both as an antechamber of Hell and of Heaven, variously. It is different from that Limbo that some people say aborted babies and unbaptized children go to, in that Abraham's Bosom was temporary. (Virtuous Pagans, after the Passion, Death and Resurrection are baptized by desire so they do not go to Limbo, any Limbo at all). Thus two different places are called Limbo: 1) Abraham's Bosom which is temporary and ended when Jesus opened the Gates to Heaven and 2) the theorized Limbo for aborted babies and unbaptized children which is permanent and a place of never ending natural (not supernatural) happiness. However, those who believe in the Limbo that could still exist now and be everlasting, believe it is permanent. Some theologians says both definitions of Limbo were either an antechamber to Heaven, Hell or one or the other. Some theologians (and I believe it's the majority and/or the Church has ruled on the question) believe an everlasting Limbo for aborted babies and innocent unbaptized children is not consistent with God's Mercy and so there is no place of Limbo anymore and the only Limbo that every existed was Abraham's Bosom. That seems correct to me, but what do I know.

The point I'm trying to make, in my overwhelmed, confused mind just remembering what others so compassionately taught me, is that Purgatory itself was viewed much like both definitions of Limbo, an antechamber to Hell, rather than being emphasized as a precurser to Heaven. Today, we put emphasis on the fact that ones in Purgatory is assured of salvation and thus has the theological virtue of Hope which was infused in the soul at baptism (whether by water, blood or desire, I think). In the Hope of this assured salvation, we view Purgatory as a place where a soul is perfected, cleansed and receives God's justice to be able to enter Heaven. Thus, we tend to view Purgatory as an antechamber to Heaven for the most part in our time. In previous times and some places today, the pains and torments of Purgatory were compared to and viewed as being exactly the same as the everlasting torments of Hell but with the difference that the souls in Purgatory had the virtue of Hope. Thus, the punishments and pains of Purgatory, the worst punishment being the absence of God's Presence (the Beatific Vision) , were the same horrible punishment of Hell. The only difference being the soul in Purgatory had the infused theological virtue of Hope so Purgatory is temporary punishment and the soul in Hell did not have hope, so Hell is permanent punishment. So in virtue of the similar pains and torments, Purgatory was viewed as an antechamber to Hell.

Part IIIIt is not inconsistent in viewing Purgatory as a type of Hell differing only by the presence or absence of the virtue of Hope and the souls' subsequent temporary or permanent placement in one or the other. In that view, Purgatory is called Hell by some because of the pains suffered there. A saved soul, by the same sort of reasoning, is a soul that avoids Purgatory altogether and enters into Hell immediately upon the death that separates body and soul. This is what we call a Saint, canonized or not. This is different from a saint that has been purged in Purgatory and enters heaven. It's a lowercase/uppercase difference without much of a significance once a soul is in Heaven. All souls in Heaven are saints, no matter how they got there. A soul in Hell by this reasoning, is any soul that goes to either Purgatory or Hell immediately upon the death that separates the soul from the body. A damned soul by this reasoning, is a soul that goes to Hell for eternity upon the death that separates the soul from the body.

Part IVThis last part is completely me and I'm making it up. Jesus leaves the 99 sheep to find the lost sheep. That is what the Good Shepherd does. The Lost sheep though, can be found and saved and returned to the flock, which is the Mystical Body of Christ. In the same way, a soul cut off from God in Purgatory, can be viewed as a lost soul that is being purged of that which is separating that soul from God in that the lost soul does not have the Beatific Vision and that lost souls' prayers for itself are weak and almost, but not quite, ineffectual (?). A soul in Purgatory can, in this way, be said to be "lost" but this lost soul is not lost for all eternity but rather is "lost" for the period of purgation, whatever a period of time may mean in purgatory. I really don't think time in Heaven, Hell or Purgatory is anything like the Newtonian Time we have on Earth now. It just doesn't make sense to me and never has. The Doxology (Glory Be) doesn't make much sense if just viewed as "was and is and is to come" on a Newtonian physics type timeline. I don't know. Like I said, no one every taught me anything in this last paragraph. I just surmised it because my mind just works that way. I submit to the teaching of the Magisterium in all things which can neither deceive nor be deceived. I may be as ignorant of Mary Cleopas when she asked Jesus to put James the Less and Jude Thaddeus on His right and left when the Kingdom Comes. Jesus responded "Woman, you do not know what you ask. This honor is not mine to give but the Father's" or something like that. Mary Cleopus asked sincerely but she did not understand. She is still a Saint. Her sons are Saints. Our Lord appeared to her and her husband, probably, on the Road to Emmaus (sp?) after the Resurrection, maybe. I hope he explained to her why she is wrong and if I am wrong, I hope the Holy Spirit enlightens my mind.

Thank you so much for this website. Thank you for all your prayers for indifferent and hardened sinners. Thank you victim souls for doing the Lord's work. All you Holy Men and Women, pray for us!

Although not pertinent to the discussion the story you mention is from Mt 20: 20-23 and refers to the mother of the sons of Zebedee whose name is Salome. The sons of Zebedee were James and John. Also there are two different men with very similar names: Cleophas and Clopas. Clopas was Joseph, the adoptive father of Jesus’ brother. Clopas was the father of the apostles Simon and Jude. Cleophas was walking with another disciple toward Emmaus, when Jesus joined them. The Eastern Church has long held that the friend was Luke because of the tradition that an author did not name himself in his story.

Pertinent to the discussion, I would recommend that you read St. Maria Faustina Kolwaska’s Divine Mercy in My Saul. I think after reading that your questions will be answered.

I think Mother Teresa said that Princess Diana was in Purgatory. I say this because I think I heard it many years ago. Someone can dispute it if you have heard otherwise. I say it because, if you look at Princess Diana's life, you see a non-Catholic, you see a person who had some extra-marital goings-on and yet Purgatory? That speaks to me about the immense mercy of God, the fact that folks really do not always know that certain sins are mortal, that God takes so many factors into account, mercy mercy mercy as Pope Francis, the Pope of Mercy, continually states.I read too from Catherine Emmerich that the flood at the time of Noah was an act of mercy by Almighty God, in that so many more souls than would have otherwise, begged for mercy as they were about to drown in the flood.Everything is mercy

I just had a thought and wonder what others think: Is it a testament to Almighty God's "non-Mercy" so to speak, that there are demons in Hell? And that there are many? Or rather is it a rejection of God's Mercy that got them there? And can we not say the same about human persons?

Hi Jane,Scripture says that demons joined Lucifer in rejecting God and His love by stating "Non Serviam--I will not serve" as revealed in part in Jeremiah 2:20 and Revelation 12:4, thus eternally separating themselves from God.

On the same token I personally have always felt that humans who end up in hell do so by decisively choosing themselves to reject God's love and mercy, and thus condemn themselves to hell.

So, I personally do not see God so much condemning souls to hell, as I see individuals themselves actively choosing to reject the love and mercy of God, thereby separating themselves from God by their own choice.

There is a prayer in the St. Bridget 15 prayers that mentions "multitudes" falling into Hell. If there are multitudes in Hell, isn't that a testament to free will at work rather than a lack of Mercy from Almighty God?Here's the prayer:

"FIFTH PRAYER

Our Father – Hail Mary.

O Jesus! Mіrror of eternal splendor, remember the sadness whіch Thou experіenced, when contemplatіng іn the lіght of Thy Dіvіnіty the predestіnatіon of those who would be saved by the merіts of Thy Sacred Passіon, Thou dіdst see at the same tіme, the great multіtude of reprobates who would be damned for theіr sіns, and Thou dіdst complaіn bіtterly of those hopeless lost and unfortunate sіnners.

Through thіs abyss of compassіon and pіty, and especіally through the goodness whіch Thou dіsplayed to the good thіef when Thou saіdst to hіm: “Thіs day, thou shalt be wіth Me іn Paradіse.” I beg of Thee, O Sweet Jesus, that at the hour of my death, Thou wіlt show me mercy. Amen."

I think that the saints who said the things quoted at the top of your article were speaking the truth.

Is that a cause for despair? If we learned that for sure there were more folks in Hell than those saved, should that not be an incentive to look for God's Mercy here on earth in order to not fall there?

And is not the Gospel still Good News even though there are multitudes in Hell? That we have a chance here on earth in order to avail ourselves of the Mercy offered to us by Almighty God?

I think we can end up in Hell, but not accidentally. I think a soul chooses it by small degrees, going from one sin to another gradually. I read in Mystical City of God that that is what happened to Judas. He did not become a thief overnight, but by small degrees.

Can we have great and deep hope that all will be saved while at the same time realize that many choose to reject the Mercy of God?

Hi Jane,You said "I think we can end up in Hell, but not accidentally. I think a soul chooses it by small degrees, going from one sin to another gradually. I read in Mystical City of God that that is what happened to Judas. He did not become a thief overnight, but by small degrees."

Yes--I agree it surely occurs by degrees. We read the same thing about Judas in Maria Valtorta's mystical writings also.

"Can we have a great and deep hope that all will be saved while at the same time realize that many choose to reject the Mercy of God?"

I have been blessed with visions and other mystical phenomena, including seeing the Miracle of the Sun to this day. One day, Jesus gave me this vision ( they always occur when you least expect it): I saw thousands of people making merry and going down a very large grassy hill. The hill was the size of a mountain. I was also on the hill with my 2 children. I gazed down to the bottom of the hill and saw a river that hugged it. As soon as one of the merry people touched that water, they instantly died. I saw thousands of dead bodies floating down the river. I noticed that no one else observed the dead bodies or realized the danger of touching the water. They just plunged into the water and died instantly. It was a horrid sight! I looked to the side of me and saw thousands upon thousands of people going downhill. I began screaming, " Go up the hill. GO UP THE HILL !!!!!" No one heard me. I saw in the distance a young family going up the hill with great difficulty, though. After screaming at the people for a very long time - they seemed almost hypnotized- I told my children, " They are not listening. But, WE must go up the hill". I took their hands and climbed the difficult grade while passing multitudes of people on the way down. Jesus gave the understanding that the people going down the hill were going to Hell, while the very few people going up the hill were going to heaven. I then recalled what Jesus said in the bible that the road to perdition is wide and the road to salvation is narrow and rocky. To this day, I tell everyone I know about hell. Many are destined to go there because they don't believe it exists.

Most of the saints who report revelations are known for fasting from food and water, sleeping very little, and spending great amounts of time in dead silence and darkness while they prayed.

Some of the biggest factors for hallucinations in non-psychotic people are fasting, dehydration, lack of sleep, and sensory deprivation. Obviously some of the private revelations, like Fatima and Lourdes have witnesses to back up their validity. But science would dismiss most private revelations easily.

When Pope Benedict (arguably the most theologically advanced Pope in history) suggests with the Magisterial authority of an encyclical (Spe Salvi, 45-47) that we ought not to expect most people to be damned, then those private revelations lose a lot of their weight

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. Revelation 7:9

The Scripture Itself that many many many, numberless, incalculable souls will be saved.

MANY MANY MANY PEOPLE WILL BE SAVED FOR IT IS WRITTEN IN THE SCRIPTURE.

"After this I looked, and there before me was a GREAT MULTITUDE THAT NO ONE COULD COUNT, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands." - Rev 7:9 (If the saved would only be a few, we could easily count them.)

"Taking him (Abraham) outside, He (God) said, "LOOK UP THE SKY AND COUNT THE STARS IF YOU CAN, JUST SO WILL YOUR DESCENDANTS BE." He (God) told him. - Gen. 15:5 (It is said that the total number of stars is GREATER than the grains of sand on earth put together!) It is an affirmation from the Word of God Itself that the saved are not few but COUNTLESS, INCALCULABLE, NUMBERLESS BECAUSE THE STARS WHICH SYMBOLIZE THE ELECT ARE UNNUMBERED.

There is a book on Hell by Fr. Shouppe, a Jesuit, which tells the story of a man who appeared to a Cardinal. The man was in Hell. He was incredulous. He said to the Cardinal, "Are there any persons left on this earth?" The Cardinal was stunned by his question. And asked him why he said that. The man replied that there were so so many persons plunging into Hell that he wondered if there was a single person left upon the earth.Is it mercy to lead folks to believe prisons are nearly empty or very full in order to inspire a longing to never go to prison? If the rich man is damned for living sumptuously living and ignoring the person by the gate who was poor, in the Scriptures, what must we not do for our salvation in order to avoid the same fate?God Bless you

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