Posted:4th Oct 2005Greetings kindred spirits. I am reaching out to the Home of Poi community for help. I am writting a book on "The History of the Fire Arts" which will be an all inclusive understanding and appreciation of those who create, perform, build, and teach everything and anything that pertains to the fire arts. I am presently on the chapter that deals with the fire staff. I am familiar with the Polinesian culture that started 'fire knife' dancing in the mid thirties from Samoa that eventually made it's way to Fiji, Tahiti, New Zealand and, finally, Hawaii. I am also aware of fire staff spinning in India that began in the '60's. I have also heard stories of some forms of fire staff spinning in South America and even in Africa, but not yet confirmed. The informaton that I am seeking now is; who are the people responsible for inspiring the multitudes of 'white' people world wide to take up the fire staff. It appears to have begun in Australia in the late 80's or early 90's. If this is true, would someone be so kind as to direct me to anyone who might know who these people are. Their names, addresses, e-mail , websites; I'll take anything. If anyone should also know of any persons who were fire staff performing even earlier than the late 80's that was not bound to, or apart of, any ethnic identity, PLEASE let me know. To make this real simple, folks, I am looking for the first white people who wanted to adopt, take on, another cultures ethnic fire ritual and identity and ask them; why? Someone knows and I really could use the info. Blessings to you all, and I hope to hear from you soon. Peace, Historian

Posted:15th Nov 2005you have valid points historian, i would really like to defend your stance,if only that you would please try not to make it so hard for me to do so.please, i'd love to hear about how you are going about exploring the flamey past but by reasserting your importance and stature in every post it emphasises how you have need to justify yourself. It's ok to be you.together we can transcend the mire of personal attacks on spellling and armchair legal threats, and take this gathering of fire afficionados in the right direction!

I would love to know more about how twirling as an art form arrived where it did before it was influenced (as i see it) by such pioneers as glass, the te pooka gang, meg and the amazing! rubber heart duo! <--- note the double apostrophes.

Posted:15th Nov 2005meg, sometimes people that we don't like will teach us as much about ourselves as people whom we do.This thread is a perfect example - historian has taught me much about my sense of cyber-hospitality. or lack of.:offers tea and scones:

Posted:15th Nov 2005something i hadn't thought of: interestingly enough, this thread began just about the time a couple of Tribe.net threads ended regarding firespinning and the SCA. they revolved around historical proof... coincidence?

HISTORIAN: if you're a SCAdian, like myself, and are looking for historical documentation tied to these tribe threads, at least have the guts to come out and say it. there's no shame in it. there is certainly no need to fabricate a background to make yourself seem legitimate. there is legitimacy in simply asking for the information you seek.

If the misspelling of words be the criteria by which a person should be

deemed credible or not, then how should we judge you? You know, there

IS a little box at the bottom right hand corner that corrects any words

that we misspell, you might want to try using it every once and awhile.

i dont get it drew is the most anal person as

far as spelling and punctuation go like in the history of the world.

but i mean really lineage

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

Posted:16th Nov 2005It's easy, all we need to do is, when HOTFA releases his "Historical" book, we release a "Historical" film, where aliens teach the Maori to spin Poi with the intent to start a subculture that eventually becomes mainstream enough to affect politics.

[/sarcasm]

Then we take over the world.

And have a council of every HoPper with a member No. under 4075 ( ) to govern the world! Or something so they can pass laws like "The Bloody Stupid Act" where you can be convicted of being bloody stupid!

I think that would be nice.

[/daydream]

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Posted:16th Nov 2005Topics often end because people start talking crap that is best voiced in chat. Have some respect for other users.

cheers EDITED_BY: Stone (1132105311)

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Sept/Oct 2002: Met a guy called Steve (?!) in Airlie Beach, he did fire staff and persuaded me to light up my fire poi (registered on HoP the next day ).

Oct/Nov 2002: Met John in Cairns... he sold poi/toys in the centre of town and organised fire gatherings at Lake Placid. He had neon hair and taught me lots of things. I think his crew were called Flammable.

March 2003: Met Steve and the rest of the Auckland fire spinners at Victoria Park on Monday (or tuesday?) nights. He showed me how to rewick poi.

November 2003: Saw a girl with long blonde hair spin my fire poi near Able Tasman. She just did the corkscrew, but she danced with it and it was incredible.

Dec 2003: Met Bluecat in Queenstown. He showed me lots of interesting things and was 'the best person I've ever seen do poi' I wasn't posting on here at the time, so had no idea who he was.

Dec/Jan 2003/4: Saw Bluecat and tePooka at Alpine Unity New Year festival.

Jan 2004: Met Richard and Mark on a beach in Koh Phan Ngan. They taught me BTB weave and other things.

April 2004: Met up with Andy (PoiBoxII) in Laos, but I believe I was too newbie for him

May 2004: Spent three weeks spinning fire every night outside a bar on a beach in Siahoukville, Cambodia for accomodation. Steep learning curve in 45 degree heat

May 2004: Through Titi (Cambodian spinner), I met Mio and Pat in Bangkok, then randomly met Andy again too. We all went to the park and played and I learned lots.

June 2004: Came home and started meeting up with the Irish fire crew... then started posting on HoP.

watching people like glass, tom, mushypeasteve, psi and knoxious(as well as a few more... these are the ones who are bringing out the truly innovative stuff

watching baton twirling. i rate this slightly lower than the people above, mainly because baton twirling is so mechanical and rigid. however, there are moves and choreography in baton twirling most of us untrained-gymnasts will never acheive without more time than should be allowed!

capoeira(my movement stlye has grown immensely from this, but it is not the 'only way'!)

juggling. first and foremost this got me started on object manipulation. i would never have met:

www.tulikansa.net- a finnish fire troupe who inspired me to start staff. i first saw them at:

beltane. i won't explain this one. have alook: www.beltane.org

juggling(again) this taught me to learn ambidextrosity. or put more simply and in more juggly/staffy relevant terms: how to isolate one hand(i don't mean isolations the move, i mean one hand doing one thing while the other wanders off and has a pint down the pub, meets a few women, does a few tricks, then comes back into the pattern. understood..?)

a guy called julien. who had learnt a few moves from mushy pea steve and turned up at a festival in Poland called Zblizenia. he showed me the basic concepts of contact staff and reinspired me to pick iup a stick. (this was in january 2002, i began staff the first time in may 2001 and stopped in august 2001......)

incidentally meg, further down that thread, you wrote:

Written by:

I thought people didn't reply cos they was all running outside to practise?

July 2002- a friend of mine showed me that if you threw a stick over the back of your hand you could catch it again and pin wheels. My mate gave up after about a month i carried on just doing this with turns and throws.

April 2003- some guy at a party showed me you could add more spins to a fig 8

July 2003- Went to national forest folk festival where there was a stall selling fire poi and i got chatting to the woman who ran it. She did poi but not staff but i bought some kevlar from her and tried fire spinning for the first time.

October 2003- Met Claire at a club where she was doing some spinning and went back for a party where she showed me a couple of basic contact moves. This then obsessed me from this point onwards. Through Claire i met Tim (Ogre) who i now live with who taught me lots of new stuff and nagged me incesantly untill i tidied up my planes.

May 2004- Went to Fire Toys fire gathering where sperculist Matt started teaching me basic poi

June 2004- Downloaded Black and Blue and dribbled at bluecat for a while

August 2004- Went to spits and met a whole load of people that gave me loads of ideas for new stuff

October 2004- Met Fluff at brum circus soc who then got me to go to sheffield pip birthday. Again met loads of lovely people who gave me lots of ideas most noticabley T+B who taught me to matrix properly.

Summer 2005- An awesome time meeting all people HoP travelling around the country and picking up great new stuff.

Overall i'd say my biggest influences style wise have been T+B and bluecat (or whatever the hell you are calling yourself now) and recently Meg. i would like to think that in my own little way i may have influenced them too, but in terms of lineage for me, mostly read them.

Posted:17th Nov 2005Ok now this is an interesting thread that just became even more interesting..........good idea Mr Cat

So - it all began in late 2001, i saw fire poi being spun at a party and thought, yeh i can do that....... next day i went online looking for firespinning info.

I made a set of chains with homemade towl wick and voila - i was a firespinner..........hahahaha or so i thought

I found a website called UKfirespinners (not around anymore) but basically the guy tunning it had 4 tickets to glastonbury and wanted performers to go...... me thinking i was ready (again hahahaha) met up with the runner of this website and the others - that being fluffy napalm fairy, drnoodlehead and missstix

We performed inbetween this group called tepooka - whoever they were (thats what i thought at the time anyways )

That glasto i saw so much talented spinning i thought.man ive got so far to go.

Fluff introduced me to the home of poi where i found a wealth of vids and info etc.

It was after this point i saw the drew and stick video when it first came out. i was blown away - i put down those silly poi things and got me broom handle

Anyhow cutting a long story short, ive been inspired by many since then who i am glad to now consider friends as over the years many meets have enabled me to pick up so much from them, so my general staffing reportoi comes from influences by:

Bluecat

Knox

Meg

Ninja dave

Fluff

Simian

Moseph

T&B

Ben-ja-men

Without these people id never know what i do now - for me they are the founders of my staffing roots.......... im not saying my line comes from them, in some cases my line is parralell to thiers because some of us have all progressed together

However saying that if i were to say that HOP had a first generation of contact staffers i believe it would be. - (IMO)

Mushypea steve

Glass

Bluecat

Knox

Nx

Massive respect to you all

"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

I very first saw juggling and things in a documentary one of the guys at my university did about a meeting at the drome in London which some people might be familiar with.

Thought about going along then didn't

a year later met a friend nic who did contact and thought cool eventually went down to brixton and just jugglers where I was blown away by all of the amazingly beautiful people who I met.

Did some contact juggling then went to brighton with Nic to film birds flocking for some stupid reason. She brought her fire staffs and let me have a go with one (not lit) I got the figure eight and was hooked went off to my room to practise with a broom handle for a while.

Played in Brixton where drew would show up and occasionally do really weird things with a stick in a corner. Every once in a while I'd go up and ask him about contact and he said just play with your staff and get to know it and I did. Got pretty good at weird ass contact staff of the ugly variety then went to BJC brighton, first juggling convention.

I thought I was one of the good kids then saw this wacky guy named rob, or blue cat and some crazy group called tepooka and thoght holy hell I suck, and can't wait to join a troupe. Went to workshop by Mushy Pea Steve and one by Blue Cat and Nx then thought i REALLY suck

One year passes I practice loads in regents park doing strange things go to EJC Svendborg have great time with the people I so admired at the BJC smoke lots have great time (meet one annoying man but that's beside the point) and eventually get bugged to move to edinburgh and here I am.

I saw an English woman called Denny Ellis spinning at Cosmos Lodge, Brisbane in about 1995. I may have seen a few people at Woodford before that, but she was the first one I ever saw up close who let me have a go. Another friend, Lina, could spin already, so she taught Dave (Knox) and I the basics, with the words 'I'll show you how to do it if you don't tell anyone how easy it is'

There was nowhere then selling staffs, so we cut down a broomsticks and made our own: hardware shop fibreglass wick wrapped in wire, kerosene... sheesh, primitif!

No teachers or classes so we just made stuff up. We became the Todd St Family Fire Show by lighting up at night to the Prodigy, ambushing passing cars and alarming the octagenarian neighbours. Saw a high precision UK fire chain duo at Woodford and realised that there was a whole other level of twirlage happening over there. A few more Woodfords and 1000 spins to Voodoo People later, Knox headed off overseas in 98 to do Summer Camp, Spin Psycle and ... but that's another story

I stayed home and did lotsa drumming and played staff occasionally. Most notably while bouncing on a trampoline over my nicely spread, handcuffed lover. As a fundraiser for a housemate who was fined for painting people green.. but that's another story too...

Had a nasty accident, hurt my shoulder, gave up staff. Picked up some $2 silver ribbons on a stick and then tried poi (again, Denny's inspiration) Thanks Denny!

Had fun with glowies, till 2002 when Dave and FlameOz and Dom and co were around and I discovered there was these things called planes Just about gave up for a while, cos, you know, it's kind of embarassing being a muppet ...!

Coaxed myself on with long ribbons (encourage precision)and some fire, never any good but the fun was back. Went to Exodus early this year as Tour Mum and decided to get involved with the lovely Brissy scene, juggle club and Moonfest: found HoP. Met lotsa of lovely spinners this year, travellers, Saw Ry, the first person who ever made me want to spin socks...Kyle Mclean moved in: gradually getting a bit better at spinning and lovin the people I meet.

Stuck the hand up to help with Uberoz, and Circadia at Woodford because I love the community and think that spinning fits in the big picture somwhere around radical harmlessness and brain gym

Look so forward to meeting more peeps and acquiring a consistent hyperloop!

Posted:18th Nov 2005well, when somebody said lineage, I assumed it meant something like: I was first taught by bluecat, and he was first taught by <some guy> who was in turn first taught by <some other guy>

But I like this stuff of writing down your influences.

I remember in the year 2002 going to juggling society and learning to juggle. Then picking up a stick, for a little bit, and subsequently borrowing it whenever the guy brought it along. (until somebody broke it)

Feb 2003, I got my own stick for ma birthday. Watched bluecat a little. He taught me a little. Then he ran off to aussie land for 6 months. He taught me a little when I got back. I practised A LOT in my garden.

-> learnt off videos a la the internet and by myself. All through that summer. Learning to do a half steve by the end of that summer. Got soo annoyed at having to squint at contact moves done on fire in the dark that I started to make tutorial videos, and I think you all know what happened there...

Learnt a little of poi and doubles at this point. But nothing past figure of eight for double and weaves for poi.

Got a new stick from firetoys. It was [censored] and had to be destroyed.

2004: went to a couple of festivals, SJC, Feuerfest and the EJC. Learned some, taught a fair bit. Met ben-ja-men, Dave Knox, Nx, Drew and lots of other coooooool people. (ado-p? I can't remember when your first foray was to ed)

end of summer 2004 I probably started on doubles, due to boredom of singles and mo-sephs influence. Andre probably turned up at some point and blew my mind.

2005: Well, I think we know what happened in this year.

2006: Maybe I'll actually get good in this year.

But though he taught me not a lot, for the first year of my learning, all my lineage rests on Rob, and a vague memory of him doing contact before nipping to aussie land. To be fair thou, he has pulled his finger out a bit and taught me some stuff this year, still have to poke him into it thou! ;p

"the now legendary" - Kaskade"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Posted:18th Nov 2005well, as long as we've decided to make this constructive...

As far as poi goes i attempted to learn the basics off xaeada's videos, and more or less eventually suceeded. I then played around on my own with very occasioanl outside influences, such as Peregrine, Nomad, Nyx (my only real protege! ) a Pete or Peter something from block island, and a local named Scott who couldn't stand the internet.

And all of my poi, altho slightly influenced from saying "i wonder if we can do this" of those people, is learnt that way, after the very basic handful of moves. Two exceptions:Dom in December 2002 taught me how to do a simple turn (cause somehow i'd never learned!) (he also convinced me i wanted a pair of drews poi took me years to actually get them...)And Rob taught me how to do hyperloops this summer, which i now like to just stand in the corner and practice at times I'd like to think I'm absorbing something else from somewhere, but i'm not sure its true- i tend to distill attitude and physics and then not be able to remember what people acctually demonstrated after that....

But staff is much simpler. I was taught by a boy named Todd with a passion for doing things right and a tenacity matched by few people, on the whole. I then proceeded to play around with throws a lot and mostly get stuck... which isn't surprising given my ability to learn physical tasks. But altho i've since seen pozee spin, adn videos, and finally (esp PiP recently) loads of others, i'd have to say pretty much everything still rests on him...He lives in NYC now incidentally

Posted:18th Nov 2005well i first learnt staff at my house warming party when i was 6 and learnt a basic windmill thingy and figure of 8 then didn't really do anything after that week untill i saw bryn (lavatwilight) at my mate's weding this spring and thought i'd have a go and learnt neck wraps and just about got a halo roll then found hop very soon and learnt lots from HoP video's and mainly megs tutorials then went to ffalmouth got very inspired and first tried learnign doubles from simian and got soe basic stuff and did lots more then learnt some more doubles at my party from bryn then expanded on that at play via strugz, durbs, lots of anti-spin from simian and lots from other people. then went to brJC and learnt soe more stuff, including flowers and some more anti-spin from the monkey and got the basics of staff juggling from someone (can't remember their name but they were doin 3 staff and staff juggling stuff) and then practiced some more. t some point after finding home of poi i learnt some poi to see what all the fuss was about, and finally bothered learning to juggle from my parents.

i was mainly inspired by my dad and all my other juggling relations/ friends and people i met at my dads juggling club tho i never learnt anything except unicycling, bryn, strugz, meg, bluecat, antti and tommi, and all the awesom people i've met over the summer

First time I saw fire spinning was in the Gecko bar in Rai Lay (sp?) in thailand> The year was 2003.

Heres a bit i just found in our travel blog thing

" We went out last night to a place called gecko bar, it was an open air party just on the edge of a place called rai lai, when we arrived we noticed group of people standing watching something on the right hand side of the bar. It was fire dancing. We'd seen a couple of these people practice on the beach during the day. With long sticks or a long chain each hand with a weight tied on the end. It was nothing though,compared to watching these people spin round in the dark. There was five, or was it 8 different people taking turns. each was unique and all were very cool. All we could do was sit there with our drinks. Blown away. The night moved on the the people moved to the beach. The bell at the bar would ring every hour. It took us the longest time to figure out that they were reminding us that the bar was still open, its not like home here. but if you asked me to settle down. i would be quite happy to stay forever "

The person that struck me the most was the one person i never saw spin, she was a lovely australian girl (i think it was her accent that got me). She stopped us on the way to our hut and asked for a pen knife so she could fix her stick. Thats the first time I ever saw a fire staff. She told me that when she started she practised for two months before she lit it and wwhen i finally got a stick thats how long i practised for before lighting it

that night we saw the fire show, there was a few girls spinning poi and they were very good. Then there was this Thai guy with a staff. It blew me away and to this day there are still moves that i saw him doing that i havent learned how to do yet. Three years ago now. Though i did learn on of them at uberstaff

It took me about a year to finally get my own staff, it was a bad bad bad telescopic thing that i bought off ebay, i never lit it and later on i gave it to a german girl. For about six months i practised on my own in my back yard thinking i was the only person in the whole country with a fire toy. Then i registered on HOP and got invited to a parade where i met Faberge. Then i met clare and then we met everyone!!

After that it was a combination of vids and head wrecking mind bending posts and descriptions on HOP that taught me, mostly written by all the people that have been named above. Bluecats contact thread being very significant. The first time i ever saw contact was MCP and her tutorials and her belly. Pretty much everthting i learned was from those rockin vids. Then i saw black and blue, drew and stick and knoxious And from these i learned all about style, finesse and cheeeeeesssee!!!

Finally met a few folk in eire with sticks. Fear-tine who learned more contact in tow months than seems humanly possible is a huge inspration. As is a man called johnny who ive never seen anybody else spin like.

Roll on uberstaff. Bluecat, Knoxious, RHD, Ninja Steve, MCP and the list goes on. After that i was kind of addicted to edinburgh and was there quite a bit for the next few months.

ps, There is one person not mentioned here that really did alot for me. And thats the one and only Bender, Im not sure how much techy sticky i learned from you Bender but i sure learned alot about the love of it.