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Lumal-Nar- The worst instance ever and epic Rant

Ok, in my opinion the mirrors of Lumal Nar has got to be one of the least enjoyable and worst instance ever created by Turbine. If Turbine set out to grief its own player base this has to be one of the ways they do it So here goes my epic Rant. Let me just say that I love this game, but of course it can be better.

Its not that i don't enjoy puzzles or riddles, its just that i usually don't want to smash my keyboard after I try them...

I feel like I got to be an expert in geometry to solve the puzzle and be able to visualize the whole dungeon three dimensionally in my head.

One of the mobs also bugged, it kept respawning the defiler over and over. And dont forget to destroy the gift on the pedastal or you have to talk to broin again and redo the whole epic quest all over again...

Running up and down left and right, positioning these freaking mirrors....I will never do Lumal Nar again, unless of course i wanna make another character, then and only then because I have to!!

I really hope they come up with an alternative for that quest or let you skip it. I couldnt help but notice that the light pattern and floor pattern of the bottom floor creates a swastika, maybe im just imagining it who knows...makes sense though because it would reveal why im being caused maximum pain....

While Im at it, the hobbit gifts repeatedly stink, ive gotten one good drop from that the whole time ive run my character, whats the use of it, because I replaced the hobbit gift soon after.

What else? Oh yes why do elven cities have to be so horribly decentralized, tis why i never do my crafting there. But since im an elf i often find myself back at rivendell which is beatiful and also highly frustrating getting around. Cmon Elrond?

Do not solo with Minstrels, if you like to solo dont use that class. Why cant turbine or other MMOs for that matter learn the lessons of balancing the classes so people don't go hey, why the hell dont i make a warden??? forget guardian, which i really love, and just uber Warden it up, sorry free to Pay players!

Despite having Solo play i must confess that it still feels like im gonna have to fellowship or else. Ive found that mobs will spawn on you outside of the regular pattern when i solo, they will stack up in brutal combinations. Ill observe the spawn pattern and attack. Then im like, where the hell are these extra mobs coming from??? they just spawn out of nowhere as i discovered. I would pull the camera back and just watch em poof from the magical mob generator. Not really cool.

This Moria epic, back and forth between llothlorian and Moria, makes me insane...make the epics self contained within one certain area the amount of travel is just ludicrous...

Could stand to make some high level shire quests so i have some reason to go back there other then to do some festival which really could also use some type of improvement....

Honestly Skirmishes are really another Game, Monster play is hopelessly outmatched in pvp against freeps, who have such an outrageous advantage...

Im sure theres more that bugs me, so ill wait till i think of them and epic'ly rant some more. Cheers!

I solo'd Lumal-Nar on seven characters. At first it was difficult to figure everything out, but eventually I learned how to reset all the Mirrors and completed it. I found it enjoyable because it was actually somewhat challenging to puzzle out.

I was doing the instance in the middle of the night when the brain is not working at its best anymore so it was rather frustrating. I ended up looking up the correct combination on the internet, but would I be more awake at that time, I'd probably enjoy it. Like the change of pace (save the single respawning defiler, that was just plain frustration)

I was doing the instance in the middle of the night when the brain is not working at its best anymore so it was rather frustrating. I ended up looking up the correct combination on the internet, but would I be more awake at that time, I'd probably enjoy it. Like the change of pace (save the single respawning defiler, that was just plain frustration)

There is a mob that walks around and respawns the defilers that you have to keep killing, some kind of mistress.

I didn't care for the respawning defiler, IIRC he keeps messing with one of the mirrors and screwing things up for me.

Otherwise I liked the instance quite a lot. I ran it once in a group not too long after MoM launched, and then did it a few times since solo. It was definitely more fun in a group, but it wasn't bad solo either. I really enjoy that Turbine went out of their way to put some puzzle and riddle quests into Moria. I just wish that there had been more of them, because I feel like the opportunities to put more in other areas of the game are fairly slim. I mean, where else in-game are they going to have a vast "dungeon" to play with?

BTW, I think that it's really important to remember that most instances were initially designed for fellowships of some sort. Some of them have since been revamped to allow solo play because as the game went on it became more difficult to find players to group with in the lower level areas of the game.

I have to admit, I rather like this instance. Or more precisely: love it.
It was always fun for me. (When someone in my kinship needs to do this instance, they come to me for help. Yes, I really like this instance. It's one of my favorites.)

But what I really can't understand: What is your problem with minstrels?
I have now 3 Minstrels (85, 75, and twentysomething), and soloed most content. The minstrel can do a lot of things solo, just with ok damage + strong healing + stun + fear. Today, I mostly don't even bother to skill in red for solo content, because the mini can easily do it skilled for healing.

The only class I played that died even less than the minstrels is the warden. Well, that's wardens for you (But I still have more fun playing minstrel, even the third time.)

*hands the thread opener a huge pile of pie fresh from the Michel Delving ovens, perfect for calming down and enjoying the day*

That said, I love soloing on a minstrel. I just recently created a new one (my little girl (7) asked me to let her design a new hobbit, and since I had two of every other hobbit class already on the server, I finally did a second minstrel) and had a blast playing her, levelling to 24 right away (and it felt even easier than leveling my fourth warden through the same level range not too long before ). A friend to whom I commented about undefeatable minstrels did assure me though that it's not because of the class, it's just that I really know that class inside out (my main, very first character I created and still the one I play most, is another hobbit minstrel). If there is any class that can rival the warden in solo play I'd say it's the minstrel. If at any point your minstrel is giving you trouble, whether it be against a specific mob, doing a specific quest or in a specific area, don't hesitate to come to the minstrel forum to ask for advice, I'm sure you'll get a wealth of tipps that help you enjoy the class.

As for Shire quests, early volume three epics will actually send you all over Eriador (including the Shire) pretty soon (you can start those as soon as you hit level 60), although there is not much to do in each area unfortunately. I usually get my share of Shire quests whenever I need it by creating and leveling yet another hobbit (I have about 14 of them spread across three servers by now ), and I do like to go back to the Shire for roleplaying events, too. Like Lumul-Nar though, the Shire is a real "love it or hate it" kind of environment. I know my husband wouldn't set a foot in there if his life depended on it . There will be (small) pockets of hobbit-style quests (and hobbits ) in your way going forward, but I sadly have to admit that it's nothing like the real Shire.

As for Lumul-Nar, it really is one of my favourite instances. I love how the mirrors are a puzzle that I never need to memorize, I just look at where the light is going and can see which way to turn the mirrors. I've been in there countless times simply because I have several friends who are frustrated about it just like you, and like to take me along to solve the puzzle for them each time one of their alts needs to go there. Have you checked among your friends and kin? Maybe there's someone around who would gladly take over the responsibility for the mirrors. Btw, you can lead the light the other way around in the last area (there are two different solutions to those), creating a continuous square rather than a more disturbing symbol.

*hands over another pile of pies* here, have another pie, or a cookie, or whatever you fancy, and keep going. One day you'll look back at Lumul-Nar and laugh about how it once made you so mad you ended up with a public rant on the forum .

I despised Lumul-Nar. Really didn't like the climbing the Beacon quest in Rohan. Thought Dark Delving was a nightmare in Moria.

But I'm okay with a game having a few hard tasks. If you played the Sparta-of-MMOs that was Everquest a dozen years ago, this stuff wouldn't bother you so much :P But yeh, I am never going back to Lumul Nar.

One of the mobs also bugged, it kept respawning the defiler over and over. And dont forget to destroy the gift on the pedastal or you have to talk to broin again and redo the whole epic quest all over again...

Solo Version.

You have to solve the puzzle in order to stop the mobs from coming back. You know what you are doing you only have to kill the mistress five times or so. You kill her when you first arrive. You solve one of the four mirrors sets. You got one minute before she respawns. Be quick. You kill her again. Solve the second mirror set. Once you get all the mirrors set. Kill the Mistress and she stays dead. Go around and kill all the defilers. The four light beams will hit the web on the floor. The web will open.

The old dynamic was very annoying. You had to assign two people to keep the Mistress busy or dead. She let her walk around. She would summon replacement defilers. The replacement defilers would turn the mirror they were guarding forcing you to go back and set that mirror again. Thankfully Turbine got rid of the npc turns the mirror dynamic.

I personally liked this instance even though it took my several days to solve all the puzzles the first time. A number of people can't stand puzzles especially when the locals keep coming back to interfere with your work.

Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

Ok, in my opinion the mirrors of Lumal Nar has got to be one of the least enjoyable and worst instance ever created by Turbine. If Turbine set out to grief its own player base this has to be one of the ways they do it So here goes my epic Rant. Let me just say that I love this game, but of course it can be better.

Its not that i don't enjoy puzzles or riddles, its just that i usually don't want to smash my keyboard after I try them...

I feel like I got to be an expert in geometry to solve the puzzle and be able to visualize the whole dungeon three dimensionally in my head.

One of the mobs also bugged, it kept respawning the defiler over and over. And dont forget to destroy the gift on the pedastal or you have to talk to broin again and redo the whole epic quest all over again...

Running up and down left and right, positioning these freaking mirrors....I will never do Lumal Nar again, unless of course i wanna make another character, then and only then because I have to!!

Basic advice on this (and this applies to Eartholloth, too): Find a walk-through on the internet and print it out. Follow the walk-through.

I really hope they come up with an alternative for that quest or let you skip it. I couldnt help but notice that the light pattern and floor pattern of the bottom floor creates a swastika, maybe im just imagining it who knows...makes sense though because it would reveal why im being caused maximum pain....

Turbine has little or no tendency to create alternative paths around quests, particularly Epic Book quests. They do, from time to time, alter things a bit (often making them a touch easier--see Yula's comments above), but they don't create alternatives that permit one to bypass a "main line" quest. If they did, there would be an immediate demand from some quarters to create "bypass quests" for all session play quests, escort quests, and Epic skirmishes in the game. (There are people who purely HATE each of those quest types).

While Im at it, the hobbit gifts repeatedly stink, ive gotten one good drop from that the whole time ive run my character, whats the use of it, because I replaced the hobbit gift soon after.

So far as I can tell, the Hobbit Gifts are intended to drive Store sales. If you look at them that way, they may make more sense to you. Also bear in mind that they are Bind to Account, so if you get something useful to an alt, shove it in shared storage to transfer it.

What else? Oh yes why do elven cities have to be so horribly decentralized, tis why i never do my crafting there. But since im an elf i often find myself back at rivendell which is beatiful and also highly frustrating getting around. Cmon Elrond?

But...but... It's all LIGHT and AIRY and maybe "ecological". I think it's a deliberate design style supposed to be "Elvish", or at least a general perception of same. If you really want to craft in an Elvish setting, and you can live without a vault or AH immediately to hand, go to the Lorien Vinyards. If you can live without nearby farmland, but you want vault and AH to hand, go climb a tree and you'll find everything in reasonable proximity. Otherwise, wait until you get to Galtrev and use that for a crafting center.

Do not solo with Minstrels, if you like to solo dont use that class. Why cant turbine or other MMOs for that matter learn the lessons of balancing the classes so people don't go hey, why the hell dont i make a warden??? forget guardian, which i really love, and just uber Warden it up, sorry free to Pay players!

Back when the game started, and the "pig in the python" was at or near starting levels, it was much easier to group up. In that context, the Minstrel was a major factor in most groups. Times have changed. Minstrels have changed, to add a lot more solo capability.

Despite having Solo play i must confess that it still feels like im gonna have to fellowship or else. Ive found that mobs will spawn on you outside of the regular pattern when i solo, they will stack up in brutal combinations. Ill observe the spawn pattern and attack. Then im like, where the hell are these extra mobs coming from??? they just spawn out of nowhere as i discovered. I would pull the camera back and just watch em poof from the magical mob generator. Not really cool.

Whether or not you feel compelled to group up to get through some content depends heavily on how you like to progress through the game. Not everyone finds this to be an issue.

This Moria epic, back and forth between llothlorian and Moria, makes me insane...make the epics self contained within one certain area the amount of travel is just ludicrous...

Did you complete Vol. I? If not, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Seriously, Vol. II, Books 7-8 (and Book 9, but that takes place in Mirkwood) involve the interaction between the Elves of Lorien and the Iron Garrison in Moria. Therefore it is reasonable to be traveling back and forth between the two groups. Cheer up. It's only for those two books. At least the two areas are adjacent to each other.

Could stand to make some high level shire quests so i have some reason to go back there other then to do some festival which really could also use some type of improvement....

The Shire is a kind of idyllic, pastoral society. It is an image of an idealized rural England of Tolkien's youth, without the "ugliness" of 18th and 19th century industrialization (the "dark. Satanic mills"...that were attractive employment opportunities if you'd spent you life on a farm because the work was *easier*). In more modern terms, The Shire is a "protected environment". The last thing that anyone is likely to want is to risk a low level character in The Shire running into a bunch of high level mobs. There are two places where Turbine has done something like that. There is Sarnur (~level 45-48) in Ered Luin that has enough warning for the alert player to avoid getting into a world of hurt, and there are some level 55 (or thereabouts) mobs in an obscure corner of the Lonelands near the Bree-land border intended for farming IXP.

Honestly Skirmishes are really another Game, Monster play is hopelessly outmatched in pvp against freeps, who have such an outrageous advantage...

Skirmishes are time filler for people who want something to do during a short (10 to 30 minute) gaming session and/or are f2p and don't have quest access to an area of suitable level. Yeah, they're a "side game".

PvMP is what PvMP is. It's wonderful--or terrible--if you love that sort of thing. It's ignorable if you don't.

Sorry to hear you didn't like the instance as much as I did. In the beginning I found it rather frustrating too, but I tried to do it too fast, that wouldn't work. The second time I took my time to solve it, and after clearing the first part, I already realised this was my favorite instance, yet. It was refreshing to not just mindless kill enemies, but also try to solve this puzzle, much like I did when I was younger, playing those zelda games Since im just past moria, does any higher level know if there are more instance like these, not only killing but also required thinking? I really hope there will come a few more of those instances. But then again, not everyone likes the same things, and it seems that ones favorite can be anothers most hated instance.

Since im just past moria, does any higher level know if there are more instance like these, not only killing but also required thinking? I really hope there will come a few more of those instances. But then again, not everyone likes the same things, and it seems that ones favorite can be anothers most hated instance.

Inn of the Forsaken is a puzzle-type instance that you can do starting level 20. Fires of Smaug is puzzle-ish too, though good luck finding a full level 20 raid... Fil Gashan in Moria has a puzzle-ish aspect to it as well. Also the old Dungeons of Dol Guldur really made you think, haven't tried the new version yet to see if it still does.

I couldn't believe it when I managed to solo this recently for the first time ever, after years of completing it and all its deeds over and over with my superior sweetie, who has a photographic memory that while useful, makes me hate him a little sometimes. This instance is truly horrible for me as a member of the Hopelessly Directionally Challenged Society. But lotro-wiki.com has a map of how the mirrors are supposed to be turned that I found very helpful. It took me a long time to sort out how the map was oriented compared to where I was standing, and even though I knew where the light was supposed to go it was tricky determining the angles to actually make it get where it needed to be (I really do have absolutely no sense of direction), and the respawns are so unhelpful to those of us who are trying to figure out where we've gone wrong with the placements. If you don't absolutely need to solo it you could find some folks who have experience with this one and have them lead the way (what server are you on?), but for soloing, definitely look up walkthroughs and maps for help--the more you can find, the better.

You have to solve the puzzle in order to stop the mobs from coming back. You know what you are doing you only have to kill the mistress five times or so. You kill her when you first arrive. You solve one of the four mirrors sets. You got one minute before she respawns. Be quick. You kill her again. Solve the second mirror set. Once you get all the mirrors set. Kill the Mistress and she stays dead. Go around and kill all the defilers. The four light beams will hit the web on the floor. The web will open.

Something changed then? I completed this recently and only dispatched the mistress one time. True, I have completed it 3 times before, but I remember making mistakes and having to change most of the mirrors again. Not disagreeing with you, just wondering if they made it even easier.

To the OP, it is the one quest I cringe at. I remember it being extremely difficult as a small fellowship quest and dying more times than I can recall. It is much easier now and can be completed very quickly after a few alts and you get to know it.

Something changed then? I completed this recently and only dispatched the mistress one time. True, I have completed it 3 times before, but I remember making mistakes and having to change most of the mirrors again. Not disagreeing with you, just wondering if they made it even easier.

To the OP, it is the one quest I cringe at. I remember it being extremely difficult as a small fellowship quest and dying more times than I can recall. It is much easier now and can be completed very quickly after a few alts and you get to know it.

She does definitely spawn defilers still, but I'm not sure she respawns eventually as well. I thought there were just a few of them spread throughout the instance that don't respawn.
Just ran this last night and didn't notice any of them respawning, but I may have gone through it too fast.

Something changed then? I completed this recently and only dispatched the mistress one time.

Turbine loves to change their instances periodically. I have not done the solo version in a very long time. It is always possible that Turbine put in a second nerf on the last puzzle. There were a lot of complaints about the difficulty:

1) People wanted to kill all the locals off and have them stay dead. That way they could spend as much time as they wanted messing with the mirrors. It was only the final puzzle that had the "I am back" dynamic.

2) People had problems killing the Mistress. Your character was a low DPS output due to your build that resulted in long battles. You would be killed because she had a timed power up. I forgot what the timer was. You needed to end this fight in 30-60? seconds or you were going to die.

Originally Posted by ericpae1

True, I have completed it 3 times before, but I remember making mistakes and having to change most of the mirrors again.

You are describing the way the 3 person version worked. The solo version never worked this way. I tested the solo version on Bullroarer quite a bit. Did it 7 times in live for Epic credit.

I have no idea how many times I did the three person version. I did most of Moria Epic instances to help friends out with my Guardian or Minstrel. A number of them I never got around to advancing the Epic Line so that I got credit for them. I got the pleasure of experiencing the group versions.

Mirror Halls I never learned how to do the mirrors in the group version. We always had a mirror expert. My job was to keep people live. Or tank things.

Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

I tried it once first time through and pretty clueless, I don't think i even had the quest. (That happened a lot in Moria, oh how i love remote bestowals. I'll even tolerate festival spam for them. Oops sorry for tangent.) I tried it with a guard just on level- i remember it being very hard . We wiped at the matron because we didn't know the mechanic. We wiped at the mistress. I died quite a few other times. I remember not understanding why my skills kept getting greyed out while guard screamed for heals. I think he got his epic done on our third or fourth attempt over a couple of weeks. He'd levelled a bit by then. It took us over an hour and a half on the successful run. I don't get lost in there these days-it's burned on my brain!

When i got the quest, I did it as a proper 3 man with a couple of capped (65) players -one was mirror expert. They dragged me though for the epic, (i think i was 58 by then and desperate!) but it was fun to see it run properly.

Joined a glff group to do it a few days ago. It took a while but nowhere near as long a s i remember. The first fight (Matron) and the Mistress seemed a lot easier. I think i needed to rez once and retreat once, so i missed most of the last fight and just got back in time to throw out all my big heals. My memory gets hazy because i often run this stuff very very late at night. My mini was on level. The others 1 a bit above and 1 a bit below.

I think the mechanics are a bit more forgiving-those merrivale and bats didn't keep me dazed/stunned as long. I hardly had to pot. I think i was lucky with the group, too. Had someone who got the hang of the mirror pretty quickly. I suspect they had played for a while. It was great fun and i made 2 new friends on my new server.

I am going to have to disagree with the OP. I have enjoyed the instance every time I have done it and would help anyone do it.

I did have the advantage of know that it was puzzle based and a trick to deal with the Mistresses when I first entered it. I also had no trouble with the mirrors, solving all the mirrors the first time through.

Simple Guide:

Enemies:

Wolves in the beginning: Kill one quickly as they get stronger or heal or some such after a bit.

Swarming Bats: Always kill the main Swarming Bat first as all of its allies disappear when it does.

Defiler: Remove corruption and interrupt and they go from annoying to a cakewalk.

Mistresses: You can ignore most Mistresses as they simply threaten to attack, but if you agro you MUST kill it in 45s or she will start to hit like a blood-raged troll. Mistresses often spawn Defilers that must be killed to clean to mirror so it can pass the light on. The only one you must kill is the one at the bottom of the pit in the middle. If you can agro here before she gets to the mirror, she never spawns a Defiler. The Mistress in the room with all the mirrors can be dealt with simply enough if you assign one (or two) member of your party to occupy her. Run in and out of her threaten distance; she will always threaten and stop moving (Won't spawn more, just kill the ones already there), yet never attack. Call the party over to you if you get attacked.

Final Boss: Get your +5 Hope Tokens out. Have your leader target mark one of each kind of add from the top before jumping down. Assign a Target Assist and follow them Strictly. The first has 2 alternating phases. 1.) The boss comes out and attacks, worst skill is a ball of dread +5 on top of your orginal +4. You tank will tank, healer heal and DPS kill. 2.) All the green adds around the edge will attack at once and the boss goes green. Your healer or tank (who ever can keep agro without killing) will kite them around the room as best you can. The Target Assist will select enemies to kill, any enemies who is NOT target marked. After 2 or 3 rounds most adds will be dead and you can really start to put the hurt on the boss. (Tip: Those adds around the edge heal her.) Kill her and crack all the fine loot. (And some of it is /fine/)

Alternate: Kill everything that moves, get less loot.

Mirrors:

Initial Mirriors: For all the mirrors up to the last puzzle it is simple enough, you just have to turn them to face another mirror with a lever. The only tricky bits are a part where you have to turn the light to a door way to open it. (Anytime the light hits on of those web doors it will open.)

Main Puzzle: The keys to understanding this puzzle are as follows:
1.) The goal is to guide all four columns of light, using all of the mirrors to the center Crystal.
2.) Every mirror can /only/ be aligned 2 ways that send the light to another mirror instead of of into the dark.
3.) Each mirror in the middle will catch light from its right or left and send it across, or catch light from across and send it right or left.
4.) The light that comes down in the corners will be passed to a mirror to its right or left and then sent across and so on until it goes to the main crystal.
5.) There are 2 ways to solve the puzzle. Do not try to solve it willy-nilly, work methodically.
6.) There is a Mistress wandering around spawning Defilers at every mirror she comes across. The puzzle will not work unless all Defilers are dead simultaniously. The Mistress will despawn if you solve the puzzle.

Guide:
Start at one corner. Swivel that mirror to send the light to any other mirror. It does not matter which one, as the puzzle can be done 2 different ways. Work your way around the edge aligning the mirrors. If the light comes to it, set it so that it catches the light and sends the light to another mirror ( or the Crystal). If it does not, set it to catch the light that will be coming from the other side when you get around to send the light to it. Keep in mind the following: If the light goes to it it has to catch and send it on and that the light cannot be sent to either

(The other solution is if you change the alignment of every mirror to send the light the other way)

I hope my guide helps.

PS. Do this in a fellowship if you can. AND PICK UP THAT ORB FOR THE EPIC LINE.

I am going to have to disagree with the OP. I have enjoyed the instance every time I have done it and would help anyone do it.

I hope my guide helps.

PS. Do this in a fellowship if you can. AND PICK UP THAT ORB FOR THE EPIC LINE.

Your guide is excellent. Much clearer than any other i have read.

It is a great run in a fellowship when the strategy is understood, it's still challenging but is achievable without requiring great gear. Much more interesting in gameplay than most of grand stairs, for example.

and yes, pick up the orb!

To OP: It is pugged quite a bit on Laurelin. If you GLFF it there will likely be someone who needs to take an alt through on level.

And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”

I would be delighted to update the guide with anything you all know, and if it works well post it in it's own thread, but I will have to point to this guide as well:Lotro-wiki Guide: Much fuller, with pictures and loot and everything.

In my guide I tried to leave much of the puzzling to you to figure out, so you can have fun as well. (Working out the main puzzle was one on my favourite moments playing lotro)

I understand your frustration, but I was quite delighted to see a mission that wasn't just a bunch of killing things. FINALLY, something that made us THINK a little.

See, there are more playstyles than are dreamt of in your philosophy. As much as you like combat, others like puzzles. We puzzleers need love too, and this mission is one of the only occasions we get to actually think our way through a mission. Personally, I'd love to see more of this kind of thing (as long is they WORK correctly - aligning the mirrors only to have the mission bug and not progress is not cool).

I still have fond memories of solving the riddle door in Elder Scrolls I: Arena... took me days of pondering and leveling (and then I went and bought a passwall spell to get around it...). Good times...