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by ****** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:17 pm

thefourthman wrote:And I have long said that a score is an arbitrary break down of a review. If you can't tell whether or not I recommend the book from the words, then what is the point of the review. I acknowledge that some people like Cat-Scratch like the score as a summary, but that is what first lines and last lines are for. The words to me will always be more important, but at the same time, if I call Criminal #1 a 10 and Incognito #1 a 8, to give this book an 8 just because it is better than other books currently available is, imo, dishonest. It was nowhere near the caliber of Incognito #1. The only thing that could raise it to an 8 is that other books suck (which I don't believe they do to that extant)... I gave Superboy #1 a 9 last week and imo (coloring aside) - I would still say it is a better book than this one. I expected less from it (even given its writer) and got more. I expected more from Bad Influences and got less.

But by giving it a 6 you're saying it's no better than Marvel Apes or Gorilla Man based on your previous reviews. If that's what you really think of it that's fine, it's your opinion, but if not you're being disingenuous by grading it based on preconceived notions rather than actual content. (Not that most everyone here isn't guilty of that from time to time.)

******

thefourthman wrote:And I have long said that a score is an arbitrary break down of a review. If you can't tell whether or not I recommend the book from the words, then what is the point of the review. I acknowledge that some people like Cat-Scratch like the score as a summary, but that is what first lines and last lines are for. The words to me will always be more important, but at the same time, if I call Criminal #1 a 10 and Incognito #1 a 8, to give this book an 8 just because it is better than other books currently available is, imo, dishonest. It was nowhere near the caliber of Incognito #1. The only thing that could raise it to an 8 is that other books suck (which I don't believe they do to that extant)... I gave Superboy #1 a 9 last week and imo (coloring aside) - I would still say it is a better book than this one. I expected less from it (even given its writer) and got more. I expected more from Bad Influences and got less.

But by giving it a 6 you're saying it's no better than Marvel Apes or Gorilla Man based on your previous reviews. If that's what you really think of it that's fine, it's your opinion, but if not you're being disingenuous by grading it based on preconceived notions rather than actual content. (Not that most everyone here isn't guilty of that from time to time.)

Outhouse Editor

For example, I have long posited and still do that Star Wars (A New Hope) is no better of a movie than Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace.

They are both poorly acted, contrivances abound in both movies, they lack the focus of the other entries in the series that are not directed by Lucas, etc.

The biggest difference in opinions on the two films come from old school Star Wars fans. We see the first movie with rose colored glasses, it brings a certain amount of child hood fun nostalgia with it.

Many Children who saw both movies around the same time do not see a difference in quality for the movies. They recognize the child like fun in both because they are not fondly remembering the first film and are not looking at the newer film through adult eyes. However, our expectations given to the newer film somehow make it worse in our older eyes. When given a more objective view the films are of the same qualitative character, that is to say that neither is particularly good as a film.

(As an aside, one could say that Star Wars (A New Hope) was revolutionary for its time, given its budget and the leaps what would become Lucasfilm made in special effects film making for the movie. However, in that respect Phantom Menace may be more technically good as those same leaps have been added to and refined - one is somewhat "revolutionary" in its effects, while the other is more cohesive and refined in the same field, it is hard to judge which wins in this aspect of quality... one was a landmark, the other is more professional)

Outhouse Editor

For example, I have long posited and still do that Star Wars (A New Hope) is no better of a movie than Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace.

They are both poorly acted, contrivances abound in both movies, they lack the focus of the other entries in the series that are not directed by Lucas, etc.

The biggest difference in opinions on the two films come from old school Star Wars fans. We see the first movie with rose colored glasses, it brings a certain amount of child hood fun nostalgia with it.

Many Children who saw both movies around the same time do not see a difference in quality for the movies. They recognize the child like fun in both because they are not fondly remembering the first film and are not looking at the newer film through adult eyes. However, our expectations given to the newer film somehow make it worse in our older eyes. When given a more objective view the films are of the same qualitative character, that is to say that neither is particularly good as a film.

(As an aside, one could say that Star Wars (A New Hope) was revolutionary for its time, given its budget and the leaps what would become Lucasfilm made in special effects film making for the movie. However, in that respect Phantom Menace may be more technically good as those same leaps have been added to and refined - one is somewhat "revolutionary" in its effects, while the other is more cohesive and refined in the same field, it is hard to judge which wins in this aspect of quality... one was a landmark, the other is more professional)

******

by ****** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:22 pm

thefourthman wrote:Expectations are a valuable part of quality. If I like books by Brubaker, I am more likely to buy his books. If a book doesn't meet the expectations I have for a Brubaker book, then it is not of the quality I expected going in... regardless of the quality of everything else on the shelf, it has diminished itself given the expectations it had going into it.

If you're constantly judging things based on expectations you're setting yourself up to fail.

******

thefourthman wrote:Expectations are a valuable part of quality. If I like books by Brubaker, I am more likely to buy his books. If a book doesn't meet the expectations I have for a Brubaker book, then it is not of the quality I expected going in... regardless of the quality of everything else on the shelf, it has diminished itself given the expectations it had going into it.

If you're constantly judging things based on expectations you're setting yourself up to fail.

Outhouse Editor

John Snow wrote:But by giving it a 6 you're saying it's no better than Marvel Apes or Gorilla Man based on your previous reviews. If that's what you really think of it that's fine, it's your opinion, but if not you're being disingenuous by grading it based on preconceived notions rather than actual content. (Not that most everyone here isn't guilty of that from time to time.)

I actually think that Gorilla Man and it are equal in enjoyment level for me. Marvel Apes far exceeded my expectations, so it garnered a higher score than it might have.

Again, the whole work can come out different. I would give the first volume of Incognito a ten, whereas after the events of the second issue of Marvel Apes, I couldn't be bothered to finish the series - effectively giving it a zero. As an issue, I would say Marvel Apes #1 and Incognito: Bad Influences #1 entertained me equally - but again, this is based on my expectations of both.

Outhouse Editor

John Snow wrote:But by giving it a 6 you're saying it's no better than Marvel Apes or Gorilla Man based on your previous reviews. If that's what you really think of it that's fine, it's your opinion, but if not you're being disingenuous by grading it based on preconceived notions rather than actual content. (Not that most everyone here isn't guilty of that from time to time.)

I actually think that Gorilla Man and it are equal in enjoyment level for me. Marvel Apes far exceeded my expectations, so it garnered a higher score than it might have.

Again, the whole work can come out different. I would give the first volume of Incognito a ten, whereas after the events of the second issue of Marvel Apes, I couldn't be bothered to finish the series - effectively giving it a zero. As an issue, I would say Marvel Apes #1 and Incognito: Bad Influences #1 entertained me equally - but again, this is based on my expectations of both.

Outhouse Editor

Furthermore, when someone like Daniel Way, who I dislike his body of work in general, can create a truly entertaining piece of work as he has done in Deadpool, you have to think more of the book, then you would if someone else had written it. Meanwhile, Lapham can create just as entertaining a work with the same character but not create the same level of enthusiasm towards the work.

Outhouse Editor

Furthermore, when someone like Daniel Way, who I dislike his body of work in general, can create a truly entertaining piece of work as he has done in Deadpool, you have to think more of the book, then you would if someone else had written it. Meanwhile, Lapham can create just as entertaining a work with the same character but not create the same level of enthusiasm towards the work.

Rain Partier

Punchy wrote:I never performance score, I just think all the negativity makes me more determined to have a positive outlook, and not be like the rest of the group, it's no fun to have so much negativity.

So, it wouldn't bother you if all the wildly high scores for Superboy made me pitch my score lower to counteract you bunch of goose-stepping Pollyannas.

Rain Partier

Punchy wrote:I never performance score, I just think all the negativity makes me more determined to have a positive outlook, and not be like the rest of the group, it's no fun to have so much negativity.

So, it wouldn't bother you if all the wildly high scores for Superboy made me pitch my score lower to counteract you bunch of goose-stepping Pollyannas.

"Being offended is not to be confused with a state of grace; it’s the occasional price we all pay for living in an open society." -- Ian McEwan

Outhouse Editor

SilverPhoenix wrote:What if you were being a "bad boy" and didn't read the first series? How does that play into this?

Then your experience may be quite different. You may well enjoy the intrusive recap stuff and will not be as likely to notice the correlations in the relationship of main character guy and the whores he sleeps with.

Outhouse Editor

SilverPhoenix wrote:What if you were being a "bad boy" and didn't read the first series? How does that play into this?

Then your experience may be quite different. You may well enjoy the intrusive recap stuff and will not be as likely to notice the correlations in the relationship of main character guy and the whores he sleeps with.