JeffDenver knows exactly what he's doing. He's using the generic reply + quote functions rather than the individual message reply function, even though it's more effort and more awkward to do so, because he's just another dishonest fandroid troll who wants to quote people out of context but make it difficult for people to see just how disingenuous he's being.

I gave the benefit of the doubt when I queried and pointed out how it makes conversations harder to read, but his continued rigmarole is evidence of my original doubt. Ive ignored him so all is good now.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

The Nook cant even do a residential road speed, much less highway speeds. its a kickstart moped that doesnt require a license to drive and and is forced to stay in the bike line when traveling on the road with the big boys.

This might be one of those devices that you shouldn't knock till you've tried one. My wife knows little to nothing about computers, even less about setting up an email account or navigating a touchscreen. In the first 10 minutes she had set up her existing email, which she's never really used, on her new Nook, and downloaded her first two magazines and one book. Another two minutes with the video help files on-board and she was pinch-zooming and quick-tapping all over the screen, no assistance from me needed (other than pointing out where the power key was and how the slide-to-unlock worked when she took it out of the box). And she even checked her email this morning, and told our son that Angry Bird's must be a guy thing. Yes, she at least gave it a try.

For her I think it was a great choice. She was sold on it as soon as she found she could listen to Pandora while doing a crossword puzzle, one of her favorite pastimes. I'd make an educated guess that something like a Nook, for half the price of the least expensive iPad, is all a great number of potential buyers really need. Strictly as a reader it's probably as good or better a device than an iPad in the opinion of many users. Being able to browse the web and check email is a big bonus.

I did get a few hours with a NookColor yesterday afternoon and I was very pleasantly surprised at how well it worked as an e-reader AND as a tablet for someone without the need for tens-of-thousands of apps, or things like photo-editing or word processing. My daughter bought one for her mother-in-law. . . and one for her mother, a.k.a. my wife.

The latest application update added more than I realized. For someone that only wants/needs to do some web-browsing, email and book or magazine reading, it's a very good alternative to the iPad IMO and at a very fair price for what it does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by solipsism

The Nook Color makes for a good eReader but Id say that once you use an iPad its viability as an internet tablet feels exceedingly compromised and unusable. Its the HW that is lacking, like many Android-based devices only much worse, not the actual browser.

PS: Its funny how a year ago the iPad wasnt a real tablet and had no viable utility but now even eReaders that are given the WebKit browsers are considered bona fide tablets by Android fans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatorguy

Both Ford Fiestas and BMW 328i's will get you from work to home. You do look classier in the BMW tho, and the audio is better.

So yes, once the Nook added a web browser and some basic apps it does serve some of the needs of those that might have been looking for an iPad or Zoom-type tablet.

Whether the Nook is really a tablet might be debatable. But if it works for the intended use I suppose it really doesn't matter to the end-user does it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by solipsism

The Nook cant even do a residential road speed, much less highway speeds. its a kickstart moped that doesnt require a license to drive and and is forced to stay in the bike line when traveling on the road with the big boys. The Motorola Xoom is more akin to the Ford, poorly designed and cheaply constructed but it cans still do highway speeds even though its eating the dust of millions of iPad 2s.

Mmmm....

Maybe we're entering the post-tablet era....

Where are the trucks? Who has the trucks?

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -

That's pretty standard operating procedure for that type of device at Costco. iPods were always sold the exact same way. All (or almost all) the slots are always full in my experience. Nothing personal on the Xoom in the particular instance.

That being said, Costco displays of such items are not going to stimulate demand, unless they're being steeply discounted and people just buy one "because it's cheap." Apple has a huge advantage in the tablet game due to its retail stores.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugzy

I was at Costco yesterday.
There was a big end-cap display of Motorola XOOMs.
As I walked up to the display I realized the entire thing was just flat sheets of cardboard that you would take to the checkout and then redeem to get your product. All the slots of "product" were full. None were removed to even make it appear as though there was some demand.

The only actual device was behind a locked display and it was in some sort of demo mode.
The demo mode simply said "BOOKS"
That's all. It never changed.

I walked away. Is that the strategy to sell these things?

I was in a Costco last month and they had a fully functional Xoom out for people to use and play with. I got into a debate with the Verizon man and his Apple bashing, but I won't go into that here. Another Costco didn't have any Xoom's in plain view. Whn they sold em I've also seen iPods out at Costco for people to pick up in the box and walk through the store in their cart. So, I guess all Costco's are different, that's my point.

The Nook Color makes for a good eReader but Id say that once you use an iPad its viability as an internet tablet feels exceedingly compromised and unusable. Its the HW that is lacking, like many Android-based devices only much worse, not the actual browser.

The Nook is spec'd quite nice and still priced competitively vs the iPad 1.

Quote:

PS: Its funny how a year ago the iPad wasnt a real tablet and had no viable utility but now even eReaders that are given the WebKit browsers are considered bona fide tablets by Android fans.

IMHO the only thing that Nook Color is lacking as a tablet for me is Netflix. With Android 2.2 it's a nice consumption device. No 7" tablet will be as good a creative device as the iPad but for media consumption the screen isn't really THAT much smaller than a letterbox'd movie on the iPad.

Today I'd get a EeePad Transformer if you could find one. Even if it is a bit clunky in comparison. Maybe the Nook Color 2 or whatever will be the Android tab to beat.

Why surprised? There are more than 300+ kind of Android device, but may be only about 10% are barely comparable to 3GS, let alone iPhone4. The sales number showed it clearly. 90% crap Android phone serve as feature phone, and it should be excluded from smartphone category along with Symbian phone.

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The Nook is spec'd quite nice and still priced competitively vs the iPad 1.

IMHO the only thing that Nook Color is lacking as a tablet for me is Netflix. With Android 2.2 it's a nice consumption device. No 7" tablet will be as good a creative device as the iPad but for media consumption the screen isn't really THAT much smaller than a letterbox'd movie on the iPad.

Today I'd get a EeePad Transformer if you could find one. Even if it is a bit clunky in comparison. Maybe the Nook Color 2 or whatever will be the Android tab to beat.

1) Before the iPad 2 was announced I think a comparison to the iPad 1 was fine, but now Apple moved the goal posts and their kit hold their value well. If you want an original iPhone in perfect working order you will probably pay more than a new Nook Color (maybe 2) which is considerably faster.

2) I can't agree with overclocking as a viable selling simply because it's possible. Even if it's not crashy at 1.1GHz I have to imagine that 8 hour battery would be adversely affected by a 37% higher clockspeed.

3) I didn't know about the IPS panel. That is nice but makes me wonder why RiM and others were unable to under Apple's price point. I'll note an 8GB iPod Touch with a 1GB A4, 512MB RAM and Retina Display (same pixel count as Nook Color, according to my quick calculations) comes in at $30 below the Nook Color that came out soon after it. Still, that's not a bad price.

4) I agree that the letterbox movie difference is negligible. Same pixel width in the landscape and what I'd estimate is under 0.80" different in physical width.

5) Asus is doing it right with all IPs panels and a minimum of 10". I hope others follow suit and Honeycomb can stop being a mess. Hopefully that closed source code will do it some good in Google's lab.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

I have a better idea...why dont you refrain from putting words in my mouth.

Actually, I put your words in my mouth.

After reviewing your post record, I conclude that you are not a classic troll, but rather you are troll-ish. You are biased towards Android. No sin there. But it does cause me to question why you are here.

1) Before the iPad 2 was announced I think a comparison to the iPad 1 was fine, but now Apple moved the goal posts and their kit hold their value well.

If you want to compare a $250 product with a $499 product you typically hope the $499 is twice as fast.

Quote:

2) I can't agree with overclocking as a viable selling simply because it's possible. Even if it's not crashy at 1.1GHz I have to imagine that 8 hour battery would be adversely affected by a 37% higher clockspeed.

Eh...800 Mhz vs 1 Ghz is probably not that noticeable a difference if you want to remain completely stock which you typically don't.

Double the RAM is probably worth the 200Mhz difference between the iPad 1 and the Nook.

Quote:

3) I didn't know about the IPS panel. That is nice but makes me wonder why RiM and others were unable to under Apple's price point. I'll note an 8GB iPod Touch with a 1GB A4, 512MB RAM and Retina Display (same pixel count as Nook Color, according to my quick calculations) comes in at $30 below the Nook Color that came out soon after it. Still, that's not a bad price.

Is the iPod touch underpowered? No. Is the iPad 1 underpowered? No (well not CPU, RAM maybe) Is the Nook H/W "lacking" for a iPod Touch priced Android tablet? No.

Better software drivers would be nice. More polished OS would be nice.

Quote:

4) I agree that the letterbox movie difference is negligible. Same pixel width in the landscape and what I'd estimate is under 0.80" different in physical width.

So the Nook color is a comparably powered device to same generation Apple tablet for the same price as an iPod Touch. Dis it all you like but it's actually a reasonably priced iPad competitor with a real reason to buy over an iPad (price). Something few, if any, other Android tablets can boast.

MAYBE the eeePad Transformer because of the nice keyboard integration. However for the same price, I'd still prefer the iPad 2.

For the record, I don't own a Nook Color. I do own an iPad 1. I've been playing with the Nook Color off and on and I like the little device. Rooted it isn't a "moped" by any means and rooting a Nook Color is no harder than Jailbreaking an aTV. Another nicely priced device you can do stuff with not entirely intended by the manufacturer.

I do wonder is B&N is actually making profit on the NC. On the other hand Apple is making money on the iPod Touch so they're probably making something.

I spent the last 12 months hearing that the only reason Andoid is doing so well is all the cheap devices. Now we hear a lot of apple sales are old, cheap devices.

Looks like that argument cant be used to justify why android OS had 50% for smartphone sales in Q1 2011, way above the iPhone.

I guess it is to be expected that with all the Android hype there is no mention that the iPhone ALWAYS outsells the top ten (and then some) Android smartphones from multiple manufacturers COMBINED every month/quarter.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

3) I didn't know about the IPS panel. That is nice but makes me wonder why RiM and others were unable to under Apple's price point. I'll note an 8GB iPod Touch with a 1GB A4, 512MB RAM and Retina Display (same pixel count as Nook Color, according to my quick calculations) comes in at $30 below the Nook Color that came out soon after it. Still, that's not a bad price.

Technically iPod touch 4G only has 256MB of RAM. Lots of people found this out the hard way trying to show off the Epic Citadel demo and having it crash. Plus, there's the fact that it's a quarter of the size, that may make it more or less appealing to each person, but it does mean the Nook needs to budget for that 7" IPS display.

After reviewing your post record, I conclude that you are not a classic troll, but rather you are troll-ish. You are biased towards Android. No sin there. But it does cause me to question why you are here.

Because only apple fanboys have a place on an Apple forum? Is that what you're trying to say? Or is it that anyone critical of Apple about anything must be a troll?

I dont hate Apple. I've owned Apple products, I buy all my music on iTunes, and I have family members and friends that own Apple products even now.

I dont hate Apple. I've owned Apple products, I buy all my music on iTunes, and I have family members and friends that own Apple products even now.

Sorry, but you've already shown yourself to be dishonest, so you'll forgive us if we don't believe a word out of your mouth.

I think JD is a classic example of why we don't like Android fanatics and astroturfers around here. There's just something creepy about them and their agenda of promoting Android with no care for honesty or integrity. Likely, this all comes from prolonged association with the culture of Google where honesty and and integrity are concepts trod upon all the time. From the blatantly disingenuous "Do no evil" lie, to their utter disregard for the law and the property of others exhibited in the Google Books scandal, Google has time and time again shown themselves to promote a culture devoid of any values but that of making money at the expense of others. Maybe they attract these people because of that, maybe people obsessed with The Google Way internalize the "outlaw" mentality, but, as it used to be with Microsoft, it's distasteful to see a company and its "champions" behave with such callous disregard for any moral principles.

This is an interesting expression of an idea. Basically, what he's saying is that there are any number of contradictory facts that can coexist in "reality". So, reality isn't something consistent with the actual state of things, but something defined by whether people accept it. In his world view, if he can convince people that Android is good, then it is good. There is no such thing as objective fact or truth. Only what you can make people believe.

I guess it's through a mechanism like this that he rationalizes away his own dishonesty. If he can ignore it or pretend it isn't part of his character, it isn't real. I suppose it's a good adaptive mechanism for people like this -- if they actually admitted what they had become, it could be difficult to sleep at night. And, it takes dishonesty to the most thorough level, where they aren't even honest with themselves. My only question is how well they are able to do it. I think the anger we almost always see expressed by these types of posters comes from their own sense, on some level, of what they have become, and what they are doing.

Sorry, but you've already shown yourself to be dishonest, so you'll forgive us if we don't believe a word out of your mouth.

Anyone who is critical of Apple about anything must hate Apple. Is that what your religion says?

Quote:

I think JD is a classic example of why we don't like Android fanatics and astroturfers around here. There's just something creepy about them and their agenda of promoting Android with no care for honesty or integrity.

And Apple people would never do that I guess. If they say good things about Apple, they can be trusted. If they say bad things about Apple, they must be dishonest.

Quote:

Likely, this all comes from prolonged association with the culture of Google where honesty and and integrity are concepts trod upon all the time. From the blatantly disingenuous "Do no evil" lie, to their utter disregard for the law and the property of others exhibited in the Google Books scandal, Google has time and time again shown themselves to promote a culture devoid of any values but that of making money at the expense of others.

Yes, Google is the Devil. That is the message I am getting. Google is blasphemous to the holy light of Apple.

Anyone who is critical of Apple about anything must hate Apple. Is that what your religion says?

And Apple people would never do that I guess. If they say good things about Apple, they can be trusted. If they say bad things about Apple, they must be dishonest.

Yes, Google is the Devil. That is the message I am getting. Google is blasphemous to the holy light of Apple.

Damn, you fooled me. I reviewed all your previous posts and there was enough moderation there for me to conclude that you were an honest critic. But after wiser heads than me poked you with a stick, you responded with all the classic And-troll hyperbole as if by magic. I should have given more credence to my usual warning sign: very recent join date. You've earned my ignore list. Bye, troll.

Damn, you fooled me. I reviewed all your previous posts and there was enough moderation there for me to conclude that you were an honest critic. But after wiser heads than me poked you with a stick, you responded with all the classic And-troll hyperbole as if by magic. ...

I keep saying that to myself as well reading the posts on this forum. Anything even remotely anti-Apple is met with viscious attacks. It is like Apple users are going out of their way to live up to the stereotype.

I know they are not all like that from personal experience. I know several Apple diehards in real life who dont treat it like a religion. But you would never know it visiting Apple forums like this. They really do seem to treat it like a religion. Its not a religion...its just a hardware platform.

I keep saying that to myself as well reading the posts on this forum. Anything even remotely anti-Apple is met with viscious attacks. It is like Apple users are going out of their way to live up to the stereotype.

I know they are not all like that from personal experience. I know several Apple diehards in real life who dont treat it like a religion. But you would never know it visiting Apple forums like this. They really do seem to treat it like a religion. Its not a religion...its just a hardware platform.

The irony is that I dont even hate Apple.

The problem i that you are posting in an Apple forum saying "I prefer Android", which is generally off topic. Why be here at all?

I keep saying that to myself as well reading the posts on this forum. Anything even remotely anti-Apple is met with viscious attacks. ...

There you go again...

You aren't being criticized for the content of your posts, but for your blatant dishonesty, particularly, quoting out of context and your effort to disguise that. This latest post is another example: you pretend the criticism is because of your anti-Apple views, which frankly aren't well enough expressed to excite anyone, when you know very well it's because of your intentional misrepresentations, just as you have done again above. Dishonest to the end.

How many of my posts have been about me preferring Android? Criticizing Apple for something does not necessarily = "Android rulez!".

But that is how Apple people on here seem to see it. Any criticism at all is labelled as blasphemy. And usually includes profanity laced insults.

I just did a search on your last page of posts - most are of the form: "everybody I know has an android", "Android is spanking Apple", "Apple may have increased it's share but Android got 12 times as much" etc.

There is plenty of criticism of Apple here - the entire thread on the new iMacs was hijacked by criticism of the lack of a matte display. I got pretty annoyed by Apple's 30% larceny some time ago.

Its often the most critical place for new announcements - with the exception of the iPhone people are generally underwhelmed by Apple releases. The iPad was a meh. The iPod was hated.

You, on the other hand, are a troll. You are an aggrieved troll too. Coming to a forum for Apple lovers and pointing out that while Apple increased its market share, Android did much better so deal with it, is a trolling - well particularly if all your posts are like that. And they are.

As a once owner of an Android device I could go to the Android forums and rubbish the machine - and it was rubbish - but I dont bother because I dont care. If you dont like Apple, possibly posting on Appleinsider is a mistake. It doesn't claim to be a neutral forum.

Also the kind of nut whp trolls Apple forums and then claims that we are the fanatics, is probably the fanatic. How many people here plague Android forums, I am willing to bet none.

... Expecting adult discourse appears to have been a mistake. But not everyone on this site has been rude or childish to me.

And yet, you've been rude, childish, and dishonest with everyone on this site.

Quote:

You would lose that bet. I have seen them before. I've always managed to avoid hurling profanity and childish insults at them though. ...

The truth comes out. It's nice to see you admit that you do spend a lot of time on Android forums, so much so that you're able to provide significant feedback on the troll behavior there. Maybe you weren't getting enough attention there, but you aren't going to get any love here with your bad behavior, either, and the presence of trolls in Android forums, doesn't excuse your behavior here or there. A troll is a troll, and a troll's behavior is just as pathologically antisocial wherever it occurs.