You are here

Pages

Even now, Japan retains its culture of shame to a certain extent, which leads to such phenomena as buxom women covering their assets to avoid attracting undue attention in a practice being called kakure kyonyu, or hidden hooters, according to Spa! (12/5).

Though it sounds like an easy task, the perfect cover-up of a bountiful breast is actually extremely difficult and can only be done under the most precise conditions, the men's weekly says.

"Female hormones are emitted in large numbers among women from around age 18 to 20. That's a period when the bust really grows and forms that taut look. This happens because the skin can't keep up with the growth of the breast. No matter what you do, you can't hide this process," Yoshinori Nagumo, the cosmetic surgeon head of the Nagumo Clinic, tells Spa!

If hiding the bust at this time is impossible, then perfect concealment is possible only among women over 21.

"But anybody with a breast size of B-cup or more is going to see gravity make their breasts start to sag after 25," Nagumo says, reducing the perfect concealment age group to those from 21 to 24.

And even more conditions apply: "Thin women can not have dieted to get that way. They have to have been thin all their lives. And they can't have breastfed, nor can they have broad shoulders," the surgeon says.

Wanting to keep the breasts unseen has a long tradition in Japan.

"Up until about the middle of the 1980s, nearly all women in Japan were either an A- or B-cup. Anybody who had large breasts was normally ashamed of them. And most of those who were big-breasted did what they could to make them look as small as possible. So there used to be a lot more kakure kyonyu than there is nowadays," Masashi Miyazawa, head of marketing at apparel sales company Emerge.

Since the '90s, though, Japanese women's attitudes toward their breasts have changed, with big being better and less than 20 percent now wearing A-cup bras. While those less endowed in the bust department are now buying bras that make them look bigger, there is still a strong element of kakure kyonyu going on. These women choose bras that have lots of material surrounding the cups and suppress more than emphasize. Dressing can help, too.

"Form is the most important thing when it comes to having a nice-looking bust. And the secret to deemphasizing large breasts is to expose them rather than try to cover them up," stylist Sonoko Takahashi tells Spa! "Wearing V-neck shirts gives the impression of exposure and takes attention away from the breasts. And women looking to take away attention from their large breasts should avoid whites and pastels in favor of black. Avoid wearing knits and other clothes made with thick materials and instead choose body-hugging items like rayon."

I love Japan and will most likely live there in a few years, but it is one severly f*cked up place.

Why is this so f-ed up? Women in America with big breasts try to hide their assets all the time. Just because you have a big chest doesn't mean that it's considered attractive to emphasize it. In fact, it's usually more attractive to de-emphasize it, because women with large, very obvious breasts are often assumed to be loose, dirty or trashy. Compare, for instance, the way Pamela Anderson dresses to the way Scarlett Johannsen dresses, and tell me which one you'd rather take home to momma. It's a double-standard: many men find large-breasted women sexually attractive, but many men also assume large-breasted women are only interested in sex.

There's a compromise, of course, between dressing like Pam and dressing like a nun. For women who have larger breasts, the stylist tips listed in the final paragraph are golden. Any girl past a C-cup should know that V-neck sweaters make your chest look more proportionate, that knits are not flattering, and that dark colors de-emphasize whatever body part they cover. It's not a matter of shame as much as knowing how to dress the body God gave you so it looks the best it can.

The United States has quite a few contradictions of it's own, that's for sure.

The strangest part of that article for me was the discussion of the sweet spot in terms of age for "perfect breast suppression." According to "Yoshinori Nagumo, the cosmetic surgeon" it's ages 21-24. This reminds me a lot of similar articles in U.S. magazines (or any other really, but I don't read too many foreign sources) that cite expert medical opinion to back up the article's topic, without admitting any disclaimers about individual variation. As if you fall into that age range and you're a Japanese woman you should be relieved, and if not then you should be worrying about it. Forget that your body is unique and may or may not fall into that statistical window.

Well, ok. Now that I read what I just wrote, I admit that the article isn't explicitely saying that. My point is that any sort of "report" like this has the ability to shape our imagined reality of who and what we are. But yes, that's true for pretty much everything. And it's commendable that the article is even out there to make these issues public conversation and so possible for scrutiny. Meh...

"Jaggermeister, for those special occasions when you desire to snuggle with a baby walrus." -tuffalobuffalo

All I can add is that only works to a point. If you're in the double-D or bigger sizes, there isn't enough V-neck in the world to make a real difference. Even if you get one of those white lace vise-grip type bras with like 9 hooks and with enough underwires to make prison bars.

They don't really work all that well anyways. All that does is pick them up and mash them together like it's trying to make one good one or something. I've found gray hair to be the best "minimizer". I had to stop dying my hair last year and since then I've gone quite gray. It's been weird. I dress like a geek (jeans, sneakers, and a geeky logo'd t-shirt). Nothing sexy or dressy or people in my business mentally shave off about 100 IQ points. It's like they can hear the high heels over the phone or something. Wardrobe pretty much the same, but I've made some other changes.

About six months before the hair thing, I was eighty pounds heavier. I was walking with crutches. I got nonsense on a regular basis. Now that I'm gray I don't get the crude stuff at all, and I can actually speak up in a user group discussion without dealing with the roving eyes of the guys across the table.

Maybe this issue is best debated amongst the people who need to get off my lawn. - JoeBedurndurn

All I can add is that only works to a point. If you're in the double-D or bigger sizes, there isn't enough V-neck in the world to make a real difference. Even if you get one of those white lace vise-grip type bras with like 9 hooks and with enough underwires to make prison bars.

They don't really work all that well anyways. All that does is pick them up and mash them together like it's trying to make one good one or something.

God, sing it sister. It's a real battle to make large breasts look respectable, while also refraining from assuming the dreaded uniboob. (Because if there's something worse than too much cleavage, it's the breasts that start somewhere around your middle back.) And give up on 90% of current fashion trends; no chunky cables or sheath dresses for you! *sigh* Which comes back to the whole "shame" thing. Wanting to look like a proportionate, attractive human being isn't a matter of being ashamed of the body God gave you; it's about wanting to work what you have to the best advantage.

I'd try the gray hair, but I think I'm a little too young to pull it off without looking like a Sephiroth cosplayer.

Mostly, just the way I read it. It seems so strange to hear something where someone states that the perfect breast concealment age is 21-24. I never did say that this was f-ed up, just that Japan was :wink:.

Most men I know prefer normal-sized breasts (A, B cup) to big 'uns (C, D+), including me. Even with us men there's sometimes a difference between what we boast and yell about (WOW, look at the size of etc. etc.) and what we really want.

but many men also assume large-breasted women are only interested in sex.

wha? I admit, when I see a woman with large breasts I'll watch. We are built that way, and often even don't realize we're looking a bit to much to the south. But this does not mean we do not respect a woman. Being attracted instinctively to a woman is not the same as not respecting her, even in a work atmosphere.

Most men I know prefer normal-sized breasts (A, B cup) to big 'uns (C, D+), including me. Even with us men there's sometimes a difference between what we boast and yell about (WOW, look at the size of etc. etc.) and what we really want.

but many men also assume large-breasted women are only interested in sex.

wha? I admit, when I see a woman with large breasts I'll watch. We are built that way, and often even don't realize we're looking a bit to much to the south. But this does not mean we do not respect a woman. Being attracted instinctively to a woman is not the same as not respecting her, even in a work atmosphere.

I realise you and Momgamer have probably had to deal with discrimination of us men. I'm sorry about that, but generalizations I do not like.

These weren't comments directed at you; I wasn't telling you that you, dejanzie, personally like big boobs but you, dejanzie, personally see big breasted women as sexual objects. Notice I said "many" and not "all" in my statements regarding male attitudes toward large chests. I didn't even say "most"!

Look, I realize that there are plenty of men out there who understand that "big boobs" != "only interested in sex". That's an obvious fact, and I'm certainly not trying to start a flame war here. But I have had a larger chest since I was in the fifth grade; please consider that with my considerable experience in possessing large breasts, I may know what I'm talking about when it comes to how a gal with sizable assets gets treated by a sizable proportion of the opposite sex.

Something you said above, however, struck me. You admit that you publically say that you prefer larger breasted women, but in private, you prefer women with smaller assets. Why is there a disconnect? What is it about large breasts - or, perhaps, the women who possess them - that you should prefer a smaller-chested woman in private, but you'll be happy to joke around with your friends about how hot women with big breasts are? Maybe the answer to that question might explain at least somewhat where I'm coming from.

Something you said above, however, struck me. You admit that you publically say that you prefer larger breasted women, but in private, you prefer women with smaller assets. Why is there a disconnect? What is it about large breasts - or, perhaps, the women who possess them - that you should prefer a smaller-chested woman in private, but you'll be happy to joke around with your friends about how hot women with big breasts are? Maybe the answer to that question might explain at least somewhat where I'm coming from.

It's just an easy way of conversating, one topic men can safely agree on. Men like sex, thus boobies! Oogaba! Not a topic I specifically like, because it's really cliché, but when it's easier to go with the flow... For the record, I never initiate these kind of conversations.

I took your post too personally, indeed. I get really sensitive when I think someone makes a generalization on a demographic I belong to. Certainly when I respect that person's opinion dearly.