FUDU wrote:Lee has actually made some good points today, don't get me wrong I'll pay for the U-haul and help with the move. However most of those points still revolved around the individual and the choices they make and how responsible the person is, they just do.

Most of it starts at home. Maybe even all of it.

It feels like people just aren't fully invested at home, or at least a lot aren't, and if they are it is with the wrong priorities.

Everything I've read so far about the parents, both father and mother, are that they were universally considered good people and good parents.

If they were good parents then it falls on him, the individual, and it's a shame that if he did have some problems (the kind that could be tied to his desire to do this) his parents were not able to recognize them.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

I really struggle with the very question Lee mentioned regarding what I had to say. A lot. The theorizing-me says hell-no they've taken too many rights away already. The practical side says only a moral people can really be trusted to operate in a very free environment. I am not talking religious right morals, but just the basic respect for private property, and going about one's day without stealing or screwing over people.

Yet, in giving away our rights, it's quite true that the government police state itself is immoral. The way they can just trash the 4th amendment confiscate your possessions and frame people is pretty damn scary. I don't want to see Heroin running around as Peeker alluded to, but have you taken a good look at some of the urban police forces lately? And what's all the para-military gear being distributed?

December 18th, 201211:40 AM ETIn Japan, you cannot buy a handgun, much less an assault rifle. In fact, even off-duty police officers are banned from carrying guns.

You can buy a shotgun or an air rifle, but it is not easy:

First, you have to take a class and a written exam.Then there's a skill test at a shooting rangeNext is a drug testThen a mental evaluation.Assuming you pass all those tests, you file with the police, who then run a background check.No wonder Japan has one of the lowest gun ownership rates in the world.

But does it work?

In 2008, the U.S. had 12,000 gun-related murders. Japan had 11. More than double that number were killed in the massacre in Newtown, Connecticut.

December 18th, 201211:40 AM ETIn Japan, you cannot buy a handgun, much less an assault rifle. In fact, even off-duty police officers are banned from carrying guns.

You can buy a shotgun or an air rifle, but it is not easy:

First, you have to take a class and a written exam.Then there's a skill test at a shooting rangeNext is a drug testThen a mental evaluation.Assuming you pass all those tests, you file with the police, who then run a background check.No wonder Japan has one of the lowest gun ownership rates in the world.

But does it work?

In 2008, the U.S. had 12,000 gun-related murders. Japan had 11. More than double that number were killed in the massacre in Newtown, Connecticut.

Japan does not have 1,900 miles of landborder with Mexico and 5,000 miles of landborder with Canada. Not saying that the restrictive laws wouldn't help, but just pointing out it isn't an apples to apples comparison as far as potential access to illegal firearms.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

It wouldn't have helped in this instance due to the guns being his allegedly perfect mother's.

And yeah, I would love a society the envoked those laws or something similar, unfortunately in the US due to what Al just mentioned and the fact that there are alreday about 300,000,000 guns out there there is no way to enact anything remotely like that without just light the secondary market on fire. It would be prohibition esque.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Please stop comparing us to Japan. People who do this, seem to ignore the inherent differences in the two cultures.

And flat out, i'm not taking any fucking drug tests and you're not going to get into my private medical records.

Let me know where up there I compared this country to Japan, okay Shrek? You already know where I stand. But I ain't gonna shout cliche's from the mountain top and simply ignore how other places do it or deny there's an issue here.

Nowhere did I say they had it right, that it was possible here or that we should want it. But I personally found only 11 gun deaths in a year remarkable.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Please stop comparing us to Japan. People who do this, seem to ignore the inherent differences in the two cultures.

And flat out, i'm not taking any fucking drug tests and you're not going to get into my private medical records.

Let me know where up there I compared this country to Japan, okay Shrek? You already know where I stand. But I ain't gonna shout cliche's from the mountain top and simply ignore how other places do it or deny there's an issue here.

Nowhere did I say they had it right, that it was possible here or that we should want it. But I personally found only 11 gun deaths in a year remarkable.

Plus it's an option for Lee when he runs away from here.

My fault. I didn't specify that it wasn't aimed at you. It was about the stuff you quoted, which I assumed you did so for discussion purposes.

FUDU wrote:LOL, not to mention his medical records aren't so private now either.

Just sayin CDT.

It isn't the first time I've said it here. I don't give a shit if you guys know. But if someone tells me I have to give up my medical records to buy a gun, they can go fuck themselves. And I ain't pissing in a cup either.

FUDU wrote:LOL, not to mention his medical records aren't so private now either.

Just sayin CDT.

It isn't the first time I've said it here. I don't give a shit if you guys know. But if someone tells me I have to give up my medical records to buy a gun, they can go fuck themselves. And I ain't pissing in a cup either.

Is gun ownership important enough to you that you would choose to obtain one illegally then?

FUDU wrote:LOL, not to mention his medical records aren't so private now either.

Just sayin CDT.

It isn't the first time I've said it here. I don't give a shit if you guys know. But if someone tells me I have to give up my medical records to buy a gun, they can go fuck themselves. And I ain't pissing in a cup either.

Is gun ownership important enough to you that you would choose to obtain one illegally then?

My gun collection is pretty much complete. I don't see myself buying anymore with the kid on the way and all.

But if someone is telling me I have to forego my right to privacy to exercise my right to own a firearm, i'm telling them to fuck off. I have no reverence for laws like that, just like I have no reverence for the drug laws.

Next thing you know we'll have to have drug tests and mental checks for anyone who wants to drive a car.

FUDU wrote:LOL, not to mention his medical records aren't so private now either.

Just sayin CDT.

It isn't the first time I've said it here. I don't give a shit if you guys know. But if someone tells me I have to give up my medical records to buy a gun, they can go fuck themselves. And I ain't pissing in a cup either.

Is gun ownership important enough to you that you would choose to obtain one illegally then?

My gun collection is pretty much complete. I don't see myself buying anymore with the kid on the way and all.

But if someone is telling me I have to forego my right to privacy to exercise my right to own a firearm, i'm telling them to fuck off. I have no reverence for laws like that, just like I have no reverence for the drug laws.

Next thing you know we'll have to have drug tests and mental checks for anyone who wants to drive a car.

You didn't answer the question. Imagine all of the guns in your collection is destroyed when your future daughter drops them all in the industrial sized woodchipper that you undoubtedly keep in your back yard. Just to see what would happen, which is as good a reason as anything to do something. Point is your guns are gone and you want more.

To get them legally, you have to get a mental evaluation, undergo a background check, piss in a cup, etc. in order to obtain them. What do you do?

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I did answer your dumb question that will never happen. You just have the deciphering skills of a garden slug.

Bullshit you giant Chupacabra. You just said "I don't want any more guns". Then you just reiterated that you sure wouldn't like any of those laws. What you kind of partly implied, but didn't actually say was whether you'd be buying a piece out of the back of some Hillbillie's car, or whether you'd just take a trip down to the local gun shop to tell them what you thought of their bullshit un-'merican red tapes and such before returning to your abode weaponless, pissed off, but ultimately legal.

motherscratcher wrote:NRA guy had a press conference. I didn't see, but judging by my (likely very biased) twitter feed, it didn't go over so well.

Sounds like the NRA would have been better off if they just STFU on this one.

In fact, from the sound of it, they constructed their speech around Spin's posts in this thread.

I'll have to catch it later on youtube.

Oh...it's worth watching...

What a bunch of assholes. And hey neocons...you're always telling us we need to have guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government, and now you want us to add 200,000 military armed government cops to patrol every school. The cognitive disconnect...it hurts me.

Can't wait to see how the new PTA-TSA works out. Or maybe you could just cut the clever acronym out and go straight to calling it "Police State."

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I did answer your dumb question that will never happen. You just have the deciphering skills of a garden slug.

Bullshit you giant Chupacabra. You just said "I don't want any more guns". Then you just reiterated that you sure wouldn't like any of those laws. What you kind of partly implied, but didn't actually say was whether you'd be buying a piece out of the back of some Hillbillie's car, or whether you'd just take a trip down to the local gun shop to tell them what you thought of their bullshit un-'merican red tapes and such before returning to your abode weaponless, pissed off, but ultimately legal.

And fuck you e0y. Fucking hipster.

Sorry, what was your question again? I got lost in that fictional scenario.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I did answer your dumb question that will never happen. You just have the deciphering skills of a garden slug.

Bullshit you giant Chupacabra. You just said "I don't want any more guns". Then you just reiterated that you sure wouldn't like any of those laws. What you kind of partly implied, but didn't actually say was whether you'd be buying a piece out of the back of some Hillbillie's car, or whether you'd just take a trip down to the local gun shop to tell them what you thought of their bullshit un-'merican red tapes and such before returning to your abode weaponless, pissed off, but ultimately legal.

And fuck you e0y. Fucking hipster.

Sorry, what was your question again? I got lost in that fictional scenario.

motherscratcher wrote:NRA guy had a press conference. I didn't see, but judging by my (likely very biased) twitter feed, it didn't go over so well.

Sounds like the NRA would have been better off if they just STFU on this one.

In fact, from the sound of it, they constructed their speech around Spin's posts in this thread.

I'll have to catch it later on youtube.

Oh...it's worth watching...

What a bunch of assholes. And hey neocons...you're always telling us we need to have guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government, and now you want us to add 200,000 military armed government cops to patrol every school. The cognitive disconnect...it hurts me.

Can't wait to see how the new PTA-TSA works out. Or maybe you could just cut the clever acronym out and go straight to calling it "Police State."

FWIW I pretty much agree, I guess I am not a NeoCon. I mean call it WTF it is. I am ready to arm myself up though. For anyone with cash laying around (wish I did) it could be a good time for a little profit. Pretty good video on what you should buy in the coming months before the coming bans are passed. That Glock looks interesting, but I was told for a first 9mm I might like the Hi-Point. Cheap, great warranty, and ends up lasting a while but they only have 10 round mags.

motherscratcher wrote:NRA guy had a press conference. I didn't see, but judging by my (likely very biased) twitter feed, it didn't go over so well.

Sounds like the NRA would have been better off if they just STFU on this one.

In fact, from the sound of it, they constructed their speech around Spin's posts in this thread.

I'll have to catch it later on youtube.

Oh...it's worth watching...

What a bunch of assholes. And hey neocons...you're always telling us we need to have guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government, and now you want us to add 200,000 military armed government cops to patrol every school. The cognitive disconnect...it hurts me.

Can't wait to see how the new PTA-TSA works out. Or maybe you could just cut the clever acronym out and go straight to calling it "Police State."

FWIW I pretty much agree, I guess I am not a NeoCon. I mean call it WTF it is. I am ready to arm myself up though. For anyone with cash laying around (wish I did) it could be a good time for a little profit. Pretty good video on what you should buy in the coming months before the coming bans are passed. That Glock looks interesting, but I was told for a first 9mm I might like the Hi-Point. Cheap, great warranty, and ends up lasting a while but they only have 10 round mags.

motherscratcher wrote:NRA guy had a press conference. I didn't see, but judging by my (likely very biased) twitter feed, it didn't go over so well.

Sounds like the NRA would have been better off if they just STFU on this one.

In fact, from the sound of it, they constructed their speech around Spin's posts in this thread.

I'll have to catch it later on youtube.

Oh...it's worth watching...

What a bunch of assholes. And hey neocons...you're always telling us we need to have guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government, and now you want us to add 200,000 military armed government cops to patrol every school. The cognitive disconnect...it hurts me.

Can't wait to see how the new PTA-TSA works out. Or maybe you could just cut the clever acronym out and go straight to calling it "Police State."

FWIW I pretty much agree, I guess I am not a NeoCon. I mean call it WTF it is. I am ready to arm myself up though. For anyone with cash laying around (wish I did) it could be a good time for a little profit. Pretty good video on what you should buy in the coming months before the coming bans are passed. That Glock looks interesting, but I was told for a first 9mm I might like the Hi-Point. Cheap, great warranty, and ends up lasting a while but they only have 10 round mags.

DO NOT, under any circumstances ever, buy a High Point. Never. Complete joke and junk. First and foremost you need to be sure whatever you have, if you choose to have anything, is reliable and will shoot. Those aren't. You want an inexpensive, reliable CCW get a S&W 442 revolver. If you're set on semi-auto the starting point for reliability is a Taurus .380 (<$220)

There are far better in reasonable price range (Ruger also sells a .380 for $250 or so) but Taurus is way beyond High Point.

Yes. Avoid the Hi Points, their accuracy is questionable and their reliability is laughable.

If you're set on moderate priced 9mm, the Taursus is a cheaper version of the classic Beretta 92, they're solid guns for the price. My favorite is my Beretta PX4 Storm, shorter barrel than the Glock 17 and cheaper. Lightweight, accurate, low recoil, and as simple as it gets to field strip and clean. But you should try out different models at a range, find what feels the best in your hands.

Due to the initial tone of this thread, I wasn't going to pimp any brand of guns, BUT..........

CDT and Peeker are absolutely RIGHT!...Hi-Point 9mm are UNSAFE and unreliable...I've seen it first hand on the range failure to fire, jam incessantly and slide is designed NOT to lock on last round fired (which is an unsafe characteristic IMO). They are made in Mansfield presumably from old inmate's cafeteria trays.

Like Peeker and FMB, I have opted for a 5-shot revolver when I carry...BUT, as opposed to their S&W (which are fantastic) I opted for a Ruger SP101, DAO, .357 and likewise I carry +P Hydra-Shok.........

No more technical gun talk..........I'd hate like hell for Eeyore's head to explode right before Festivus or Samhain or whatever he celebrates.........

I still haven't heard on good reason why anyone here or anyone in America should give a rats ass about some Limey's opinion of its politics

Get rid of your Kings and Queens and Princes and get back to US....take the money that decrepit wrinkled old whore Elizabeth gleans from the tereasury and give it to poor Muslims and prove to the rest of the world how fucking righteous you are