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What you call yourself cannot understand what I say, thus you say WTF. I am not interested, as I said in my post, in competing. This diverts attention from a sincere search for truth and makes the whole issue about me and you and what we think.

On one hand I don't think, I just blindly follow the Russelites, and now you are saying this is a competition about what we both think. In reality you attack my faith with false claims and your philosophical Idealogies and simply cannot handle being completely wrong about 95% of the time about what you think you know about Jehovah, the Bible and God's people. And what's worse than that, is you cannot even fathom the possibility that you are wrong. Because you lack objectivity.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

And yes, I do include myself in my comment, if that was not obvious. I should not have engaged in any sort of debate, to try to prove anything that I believed. Truth is there, it is people who cannot see it, because, even if they subtly do so, without realizing it, they put their personal ideas ahead of it.

So we're back to the never ending circle of seeking and never finding, due to the inevitable stumbling block called self. Great. I like the Bibles answers better. Yours are incomplete.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

And everything you say is the product of self. It is from the bible, but now it is coming from self. This is the only thing to know, and then be liberated from: self. This is why you are upset at my words, because JWs is what you are, who you are. When I challenge JW, in some way, it is not JW to you, it is you.

Lemme see, JW are united as a people, so why would logic dictate that when you challenge/offend one, you have not done the same to all?

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

And you are not replying with truth, you are replying with ideas. You are challenged and you come up with elaborate illusion after elaborate illusion. When you see that these are only defense mechanisms and illusions, and that definitions and words are not truth, you will be free.

So it is not true that Isaiah 2:2-4 refers only to JW, just some Idea we came up with? Since you're the one with truth in abundance, who does fit the bill? Really would love to see you tackle this one.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

It is your right to be a JW or a Christian, but I recommend you think about why YOU (self) care about all these ideas, the stagnation that results from your belief, the anger (evident here), and the constant chase which, as a result, you are subjected to.

Let's get this correct. You, the philosopher, have a many ranging ideas. Jehovah provides the truth. Jesus, a better man than both of us said he is the light and the way. Anything outside of that is a wrong turn. He is smarter than any scientist, any philosopher known to man. I'm gonna roll with him. Thanks for your concern though.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

Don't wait for peace, for liberation. It is something that is here for you now.

As I said before, I am not interested in competing with you. You can think what you like, I can think what I like. I am not invested in opinions. The truth does not care about what either one of us thinks, only we do.

This is the difference between us: I recognize the latter, you do not.

As for everyone else, what I said to K4L will help you, will bring peace, freedom, whether you are an atheist or a hardcore Christian. Self is the cage, and it comes in many forms. The self cannot be used to eliminate itself. Only the not-self can free itself from self. But first, you have to stop trying to be this or that, be no-thing.

As I said before, I am not interested in competing with you. You can think what you like, I can think what I like. I am not invested in opinions. The truth does not care about what either one of us thinks, only we do.

This is the difference between us: I recognize the latter, you do not.

As for everyone else, what I said to K4L will help you, will bring peace, freedom, whether you are an atheist or a hardcore Christian. Self is the cage, and it comes in many forms. The self cannot be used to eliminate itself. Only the not-self can free itself from self. But first, you have to stop trying to be this or that, be no-thing.

If anyone listens to this, you have effectively become their God. Like it or not. You are giving commands on what to be like one.

If anyone listens to this, you have effectively become their God. Like it or not. You are giving commands on what to be like one.

YOU see me according to traditions and beliefs handed down by others. As such, what you see is what they see, which has now become YOU. If YOU believed something else, you would see me differently. The common denominator is you, then, not me. What you see is you, it is not me.

YOU see me according to traditions and beliefs handed down by others. As such, what you see is what they see, which has now become YOU. If YOU believed something else, you would see me differently. The common denominator is you, then, not me. What you see is you, it is not me.

KFL, Jesus was a liberator. He wanted mankind's freedom, i.e., his and her salvation. Jesus, in the Gospel, stated that it is the worldly that, because they love the world, cannot be graced with righteousness (understanding of moral right).

John the Baptist told the ancient Jews, who believed divine grace was only for them, that the divine could produce "sons of Abraham" even from stone, but you cannot see that. You cannot see that grace is the result of what the divine sees in us, when we see it. In Christianity, this comes through Jesus' vision, but it can come through that of any blessed being. Unfortunately, we cannot see value, often, in each other, because our faith is only in what the self sees as a benefit.

This is because, if you look carefully, we are worldly: we hunger for a fix, just like. Each just calls his fix better, because it suits him or her. Because of what you have been taught, you think, kind of like the pharisees, that there are two classes of men, one that can be graced with the mercy of truth and one that is to be the victim of the divine's wrath, all in spite of your group, like many, if not all, others, falling short of Jesus' message.

The truth is that the wrath is of our own making, as is the grace, if we truly listen and are open to listen.

You are still not there, sadly (I mean that with all due respect), and these threads prove that you are focusing too much on what you know, as opposed to what you can discover. Or, do you thirst after righteousness, as Jesus said the blessed did? If you do, why do you seem so filled (with this doctrine), while at the same time unfulfilled (you continue to post the same things)?

It also seems you truly do not love your enemy? Have you not called your brother "a fool," by putting together this thread? Are you poor in spirit or rich and engorged with the principles of the world, of which the JW are a part?

Have you not lusted in the heart? Angered at your brothers? The message is there, in your bible, it was given to Jesus for the world, not for Russell to pervert. And it is not just about JW, numerous charlatans have done this.

Read it for yourselves, folks. None of the preachers have told us the truth of Jesus. Jesus did not say to be selfish, proud, superficial or haughty.

All the sages were interested in the same thing for mankind: its salvation/liberation: just look at my sig of The Awakened One: the lamp in his body comes from his saying: "be a light unto yourself," this is similar to Jesus' "be a light to the world." Because we do not understand these teachers' purpose, we try to turn liberation into books and organizations, when liberation cannot be organized.