Seriously, Marina, how about we confine it to those in the public eye or even those in the actual picture? Go ahead and send me the bill, I'm at 100 Get Bent lane. I'll make sure my car's in the garage just in case

It does seem unnecessarily cruel to mock/judge innocents like that but I do have to admit, I've had some unfriendly thoughts mulling around in my head about how some celebrity kids look. But I don't really voice them.

Seriously TTM how about we confine it to you comment on whatever the hell you damn like and I do the same.

I know you think you are the President of the Cool Girls' Club on here (which – kinda pitiful) but I comment on whatever I like.

And as @paris says, it's not like little Valentina or her mother or her father or any of their social set reads CDAN or is going to give a flying fuck what you or I write.

And keeping it real, this entire SITE is about inappropriate vulgar curiosity, speculation and comments about famous people. Anybody who hangs out on CDAN, myself included, is basically a celebrity crotch-sniffer.

It's OK to speculate about who's banging whom, or who's taking drugs, and it's OK to comment on adult people's clothes, but according to you (self-appointed hall monitor) it's not OK to say a little girl isn't pretty.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on what I or anybody else is allowed to say on here.

Of course it's your right to disapprove. And it's my right to call you out for being a hypocrite.

@Kristen, it would be great if Valentina Paloma Pinault grew up to be pretty – after all her father isn't bad looking and her mother is drop-dead gorgeous.

But, as Exhibit A, I give you: Bobbi Kristina Brown

Doing a lateral … one time I was working on an alumni event with a guy who, god bless him, was one of the homeliest people I'd ever met. At the actual event, his wife joined him. You know how they say people marry people who are roughly as good-looking as they are? Yup. (of course, that's if you leave money out of the equation)

So, he had mentioned to me during one of the many late nights we were slaving over this event, that his daughter, then about a year old, was the most gorgeous child in the world.

I never met the kid. But I was doubtful about that claim.

Then, fast forward about a year, I'm coming out of a bank and I see this stroller, and sitting in it is one of the most beautiful children I had ever seen. I literally stopped to gape at her. Then I hear somebody say "Marina!" I look up and here comes my friend from the alumni event. It was his child!!!

If I know a kid in real that's I'd certainly comment to close friend, nothing wrong with bring honest. But I also know It could be just a stage, and she might grow into her looks. Besides even if she doesn't it's not that important, beauty is fleeting and not all important.

Okay, I looked at the Valentina pics. While the first one was definitely unflattering, there were others that show she's quite a lovely little girl. Definitely not the typical plastic Cali girl we usually see!

And if I had to choose between being a plastic Cali type (which, you're right – boring) or being jolie laide, I'd take the latter.

I saw a woman in a cafe the other day, everything was wrong with her face, but somehow I couldn't take my eyes off her, she was just so magnetic and – even glamorous in some bizarre way. I actually snapped a photo of her with my cell phone but it came out blurry (made sure she didn't know I was doing it). Normally I ask permission to take photos of people but – how was I going to phrase this that I wasn't insulting her? I never posted it anywhere, I just wanted it for myself, to remind myself that beauty is sometimes more than the sum of the parts.

That's the thing about Hollywood stars who hire stylists and get clothes and accessories loaned to them – even when they look great, they all look sort of alike. My mom used to call them "thousand-uplets."

It's OK to speculate about who's banging whom, or who's taking drugs, and it's OK to comment on adult people's clothes, but according to you (self-appointed hall monitor) it's not OK to say a little girl isn't pretty.

The banging, drug using and ugly clothes-wearing are all choices. How a little girl looks is not her choice, nor can she do anything about it – she's a little kid.

Wow, Olivia looking fantastic. You cannot say trhat she gave birth 11 days ago on that picture.

I have no problem with parents who take a 2-3 hour break from their baby. They have 4 siblings, 3 living in NYC, so one of them could easily look after the baby. Babysitting has a tradiotion in Olivia's family anyway. The late Christopher Hitchens was her babysitter at some point, she returned the favor being the babysitter of Hitch's daughter later.

@surfer – "even for you?" Wow, I have a reputation on CDAN. I'm flattered!

Since I don't even recognize your handle, I'm almost flattered that I'm apparently on your radar, and am wondering how I got there.

So…please refresh my memory about exactly what I have said on here that you consider "low." I'm avidly curious at this point.

As for "taking a shot" at a kid – I'm commenting on a celebrity child and as far as I remember, I said "not pretty." That's what we do on CDAN, we comment on celebrities' lives.

Is there some CDAN rulebook? I mean, other than in your and TTM's heads that is, being made up as you go along. I'd like to see the sub-clause where Enty says "please confine yourself to only commenting about people who are actually in photos I post, and not any of their relatives, and please confine yourself to speculating about their drug use, sex habits, STDs, eating disorders, plastic surgery, infidelities, social climbing, domestic violence, pedophilia, hebophilia, clothing, and finances… but don't comment on what their kids look like. Cuz THAT? Would be "low."

I haven't seen that rule book or any such sub-clause.

But then I'm not in the cool kids' club – maybe Enty only passes out the manual to people who are. Like you and TTM.

In my life my own values have served me quite well, so I hope you'll excuse me if I don't take etiquette lessons from COMPLETE STRANGERS on a celebrity gossip site.

@Principessa Marina There is no *manual*. Certain patterns form over time re what people will object to. Whenever someone criticizes a small child, the pattern is that people defend the child – especially (but not always) if they have children of their own. If nobody spoke up about anything on CDAN, it would end up a trollfest like Perez Hilton. Bad celeb behaviour is fair game, but not an innocent child. Adults are the assholes, not children.

@VIP: "@Seven Someone once said that @Count Jerkula and I are the King and Queen of the CDaN prom. Whatevs, I'll take it 😉 "

I was promoted from Count? Do we get concubines?

I think I would like to expand my fiefdom. Would anyone like to take up arms and invade DListed or Celebitchy? We could troll until I receive 6 buttcheek selfies and VIP gets 6 dick pics as appeasement. Maybe we could form an alliance w/ PerezHilton readers, then pull a double cross when they are no longer needed.

Overthrowing Perez site is like Russia taking Crimea by asking : do you want to join? Yes or not answer yes right now? Put in took Crimea like a home girl pms. Takes on the last if the cheese fries. Really not much of a fight overtaking Perez dear. No one will notice or care.

Also, this: I saw a woman in a cafe the other day, everything was wrong with her face, but somehow I couldn't take my eyes off her, she was just so magnetic and – even glamorous in some bizarre way. I actually snapped a photo of her with my cell phone but it came out blurry (made sure she didn't know I was doing it). is fucking CREEPY.

@Cocoa: That is why they call them creep shots and have a website dedicated to them at CreepShots.com. I got those guys to retweet a creepshot I took once. Hot lil broad outside a club in AC. Long, thin, soft cotton skirt that hugged her butt unbelievably.

She was drunk and needed to go to one casino to get her purse from her car, then go to another casino to meet up with a booty call. Too much trouble and the cabbie left. Her and her sober friend were all puzzled about what to do, and I felt it was too creepy to offer her a ride, so I just took a pic of her butt.

She was so drunk she was walking in the street and on the sidewalk barefoot, then started bugging out for a minute or 2 that she lost her shoes. The bug out stopped when she realized she was holding them.

Life would have been so much easier if I was born without a conscience.

@7: If they are reading Perez, they are friggin dumb, so it doesn't matter if we talk about them, in front of them. You could piss on their heads and tell em it is spring rain. They wouldn't know the difference.

In Jersey I believe that concoction is called Disco Fries, blech. Better than Boardwalk Fries (vinegar), can't hold a candle to Chili Cheese Fries (from Windmill or Nathan's) for a post bar munchie fest.

It would be funny to see Count at CB, although I don't think we would – the second he tried to undo Kaiser's, ahem, knot, he's find a honking great stick up there that said "oh hell, some people still remember me from when I was a commenter, and that when I started I wasn't *allowed* to write about La Jolie because I'm so biased," and then he'd be banned.

@TTM Every Canadian household has a tin of 5 year old Vienna sausages and prob coconut milk (for recipes you think you'll make but never get around to). Mr. Leek is of Norwegian ancestry and grew up eating sardines. There are at least 25 cans at all times (in case of apocalypse I guess).

@Stephen L All you have to do is put yourself in the child's place. How would you feel reading that about yourself when you're a grownup? People tend to protect children on this forum, anyhow. I'm sure you will be able to find a forum where you can diss kids all you want.

Stephen, are you talking about Alexa Ray Joel? That poor girl has had a suicide attempt, plastic surgery, eating disorders and depression. I think having her looks publicly ridiculed really did a number on her, poor girl.

@Leekalicious said: @Stephen L All you have to do is put yourself in the child's place. How would you feel reading that about yourself when you're a grownup? People tend to protect children on this forum, anyhow. I'm sure you will be able to find a forum where you can diss kids all you want.

Leekalicious, you don’t seem to put yourself in the children’s shoes when you speculate publicly about their parents doing drugs and having hookups and threesomes and extramarital affairs. Knowing full well that years from now those children might read what you write about their parents.

So if you think it’s OK for Apple and Moses and Violet and Blue Ivy and all the other celebrity kids to read comments by strangers speculating about their parents’ sex lives and drug habits, don’t get all high and mighty because someone states an opinion that a child is not pretty. Whatever we write here, whether it’s about them or their parents, has the potential to hurt these children if they see it in the future.

So anybody who hangs out posting on CDAN and then criticizes someone else for crossing some imaginary line? Complete hypocrite.

And then, take this real-life scenario I came across.

There’s this woman. Let’s call her IC. Married, has two little boys. She gets pregnant for a third time and – understandably – is hoping for a girl. But newp, third child is also a boy.

IC blogs about her family life frequently. She has a couple of other blogs too. Her blogs are all public – anyone can read them.

It’s fair to assume that when her three boys get older and start using the internet, they are pretty darned likely to come across mommy's blog. More likely than Valentina Pinault is to find a 10 year old comment by a complete stranger on a random celebrity blind site. I mean, Valentina Pinault isn’t going to see CDAN open on mommy’s computer, but these three boys might well come across mommy’s own blog open on her computer one day, don't you think?

How do you think the littlest one will feel when he reads this:

"When I found out I was having another boy, it was like someone I didn't know very well died."

And then Grandma posts this comment:

"I didn't know you were upset that X was a boy."

Really, IC? It's not ok to say some celebrity's daughter is plain but it's ok to post on the internet that you wish your third child had never been born? Because make no mistake, that’s what he’ll believe you meant when he reads that.

None of you knows whether CDAN blinds are true. None of you knows how well Enty checks his sources, if at all. He has to feed the beast (us) every single day, seven days a week. How thorough can he be in checking his sources? A journalist requires verification from two credible sources, but the disclaimer on the home page makes it clear that there are NO standards when posting blinds.

It's amazing to me that he hasn't yet been sued for libel. Even with that lame-ass disclaimer.

But even knowing that most of the celebrities we guess on these blinds are not the person in question, we name them anyway. Not only are the blinds intrusive and voyeuristic, but our speculation in the comments can also damage people's careers.

I have been feeling increasingly slimy just reading CDAN every day, let alone posting here. When I said crotch-sniffing, that’s exactly what it feels like.

I have a lot of Facebook friends who are in animal rescue. Jennifer Pryor, Richard Pryor's widow, is one of them. She has devoted her life to animal rescue. Katherine Heigl – a favorite target on CDAN – founded the Jason Heigl foundation with her mother in memory of her brother who died – I see posts all the time about animals they rescue. I’ve donated money to help them.

I'd rather admire these celebrities for doing good in the world, than paw through their virtual underwear drawers looking for semen stains and cocaine dust – which is basically what we do on CDAN.

So, I’m really grateful for this thread because it has finally helped me to crystallize my thinking.

I’m better than this. I’m wasting my time on here. I don’t like myself when I’m lurking or posting here. It’s beneath me. It’s beneath you too, but that’s your choice. Pretty it up with moralizing but really – this is not what decent adults should be doing with their time. No wonder we all use fake handles instead of our real names.

So, since this is my last post on CDAN, I’ll leave you with the car keying story. Go for it if you think I did anything wrong, but remember you’re writing it for each other because I’ve already set up a message rule to send future emails from CDAN straight to my junk folder. I’m going cold turkey!

This was about 8 years ago. I was standing at a streetcorner when I heard a dog start shrieking in the distance. I looked in that direction and saw people gathering around a dog lying in the street a block away, and an SUV barreling down the street toward me with a man sprinting behind it screaming “Stop! You just hit a dog!” The SUV stopped at the red light right next to me and I saw the driver was a woman yakking on her cell phone. Realizing what had happened I stepped into the crosswalk in front of the SUV, waving my hands to get the woman’s attention. She ignored me like I was some homeless person asking to wash her windshield. In a few seconds when the light turned green, she honked at me to get out of her way, and when I didn’t move she began inching forward. Without consciously forming the intention to do so, I found my keys in my hand, and I raked them across her hood.

Did I really need to do that? I don’t know. It did get her to stop and pull over. But yes, it was also partly a Fried Green Tomatoes moment. Her attitude, the sound of the dog screaming, I went to flash point in less than 5 seconds. And 5 seconds after that I was completely calm again. Nothing like that had ever happened to me before.

The man arrived at that point, and the woman got out of her car, screaming at me for keying it. A Good Samaritan loaded the dog and owner into his car and off they went to the ER. The woman denied that she’d hit a dog (she probably hadn’t even realized it because she had been on her cell phone) – and seemed more concerned wth the damage to her car. People were aghast at her attitude. I saw one person take her photo and another snap her license plate. The woman demanded my ID, I gave it to her, I asked for hers, she refused, got in her car and drove off.

I exchanged phone numbers with the other witnesses in case the dog’s owner needed to trace the driver through her license plate. A couple of days later her insurance company sent me a letter and I called them and spoke with an adjuster. Told him everything. He never followed up with me.

I found the owner through the ER hospital and gave her all the info I had, and she filed a claim and got her huge vet bills paid. The dog pulled through.

Bottom line – I sleep fine at night.

Principessa out. With gratitude to you all for waking me up to my own hypocrisy. Today I got up and didn’t sniff anybody’s crotch. It felt good. You should try it.

Love the way she announces she set up a message rule to send future emails from CDAN straight to her junk folder. (She's going cold turkey!). Except…there's no e-mail address attached to her profile. Yale genius she is!

And you can bet not only will she still be reading, she'll most likely start posting under another pseudonym.

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