"Mayby expressing confusion over not being able to find....." is a very nice attempt to minimize what Mr. Ogorelec wrote but I'm not stupid.
If you judge me by reading only what I have posted and dont care to read between the lines of what Mr. Ogorelec wrote than this is useless.
He's obviously allowed to bluntly say what he think's and other's feel urged to jump inn when someone is not prepared to take his crap.

Well I dont take his crap and I certainly ain't gonna kiss his ass!!!

My apologies to most members of this forum who feel offended by this posting.

I wish you both could appreciate how all this looks from an outside view. What a ludicrous emotional escalation from a couple of simple misunderstandings! I'm glad I have kept out of it so far, and I'll probably end up being sorry to have ventured in now.

Bruno, you SURELY didn't mean that you thought a guy would mention the new group he started up, and then INTENTIONALLY hide it, did you? How could this be? What sense would that make? I have to think that you were going a bit overboard for effect, as you might with me if I had done the same thing (by which I mean, posting what I thought was a useful link, but was just an email address to the group). But, you have to remember that not everyone is used to the fairly blunt way we communicate around here - when you're dealing with someone new to the community, you have to tread gently until they get used to the lay of the land. Consider what Viv told us one time, about how in his county back in England, guys address each other as "Ya bastard," while if you take this habit of speech into the county next door you might be punched out for it.

Later on, you took it as a great insult that he would dare to mis-spell your name - something that was probably a mere typographical error committed in the heat of the moment. If he wanted to be insulting, why not just call you "candlebutt" and be done with it? If you're so certain that this mis-spelling was an intended slight, note that it was not repeated further down the line.

Bruno, you have said a great deal about civility on this forum, and you have been right. But part of civility is the willingness to apologize for perceived insults, NOT just intended ones.

Cita - I also was greatly confused by your original posted link. Not knowing anything about Yahoo Groups, I blindly clicked on the link and was astounded to find that it was just an email address - exactly what it looked like. Well, I didn't know what to think, but I assumed that you would clarify a little later how to get to the group, which you did. But, by that time, the fur was already starting to fly.

Reading "between the lines"? Cita, if you're going to advocate doing that, an international forum basically in English but where several of the participants don't have English as their native language is NOT the place to practice! If Bruno had come back to me as he did to you, I would have stepped back and said, "Gee - something about what I just said must not have been exactly clear. Maybe I need to flesh it out in more detail. Etc ... etc." NO ONE who has been here long would have taken that as a serious accusation that you were somehow up to no good. We are ALL allowed to "speak bluntly" here, but that is largely because we don't automatically assume the worst motives on the part of the last speaker. Style varies greatly, but reprehensible motives are not to be found behind every sentence that seems to voice a challenge.

NO ONE thinks you are stupid, and on the other hand NO ONE thinks you were being called a liar. If you don't see that, it must be because you're not looking dispassionately at the evidence.

Gentlemen, you know perfectly well that lots of people have disagreed on lots of things on these forums. But we don't generally devolve this quickly into rancor over nothing more than the assumption of malicious intent. What we ought to do is go back to Cita's original post of the link and start treating each other like decent human beings and go forward from there. (After sincere apologies all around, that is.)

That's it from me on this one. Sheesh ... Send out your local hit man to my door if you wish.

L Cottrill

Into this furnace I ask you now to venture,
You whom I cannot betray. - Leonard Cohen, The Old Revolution