The time line of my life has gotten tangled. Although, pinpointing when, is by the nature of the discussion, impossible. It is very likely that it was a gradual change that went unnoticed until a sort of 'critical mass' had been reached, although, that too is impossible to determine from my current vantage point. Perhaps the reason lies in communication technology? The internet makes any idea, concept, being, event, or item instantly accesible. Anything that I desire to know, can be researched, and known. When an event occurs at any point on the globe, of a magnitude that would interest the majority of humanity, it is mere moments before the event spreads throughout the human consciousness, mind by mind, the event is 'logged in' to our mental database. Now, if there is such a thing as a collective conscious, what effects does this instant communication have upon it? Perhaps this is a root cause for my lack of 'time perspective.' I'm not a great thinker, or a great logician, but I do know that just because someone can argue something right, doesn't necessarily make it right. Maybe there is more to be gained by following hunches, coincidence, and emotion, than by gathering knowledge and relying on logic? Maybe not.

Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:40 pm

Reggie

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5766
Location: Queens, NYC

If there is such a thing as the collective unconscious, then the proliferation and increased speed of conscious communication has only diluted it. Best we can all hope for, in terms of attaining a temporal nirvana, is to live in the "everpresent now"...a simple meditative process taught by Sufism and Buddhist principles, but which people pay thousands of dollars in therapy to try and understand.

Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:53 pm

Hellen Earthcould be a girl. could be a guy.

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1285
Location: Fitchburg, MA

Reggie wrote: If there is such a thing as the collective unconscious, then the proliferation and increased speed of conscious communication has only diluted it. Best we can all hope for, in terms of attaining a temporal nirvana, is to live in the "everpresent now"...a simple meditative process taught by Sufism and Buddhist principles, but which people pay thousands of dollars in therapy to try and understand.

Either that, or the increased proliferation would bring the collective unconscious into the conscious portion of our individual minds.

Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:56 pm

yo word?

Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 8

YOu boTh arE fOoLs...you both have no idea...That's fine...direction can be found...

Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:07 pm

caandom

Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 237
Location: Rotterdam

what do you get out of internet? temporary information filtered through the journalists vision. so how much of a conciousness can it be called? once the thoughts are given to you already processed? and dont say no because whatever you read is manipulative. let me correct; whatever you see is manipulative. its not my paranoia its the altered truth of the capitalist world

Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:48 pm

Hellen Earthcould be a girl. could be a guy.

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1285
Location: Fitchburg, MA

caandom wrote: what do you get out of internet? temporary information filtered through the journalists vision. so how much of a conciousness can it be called? once the thoughts are given to you already processed? and dont say no because whatever you read is manipulative. let me correct; whatever you see is manipulative. its not my paranoia its the altered truth of the capitalist world

no

Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:51 pm

caandom

Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 237
Location: Rotterdam

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS aarghhhh.... I was getting all "concious" here did you have to interrupt? LMFAO

Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:08 pm

SneepSnopDotComCOCKRING WRAITH

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3087
Location: Wisconsin

I'm forty five million steps ahead of you.

Look for the TRUTH on what's happening in this world with universal consciousness on my website within the next 6 months.

people sit for hours late at night listening to the buzz of their televisions and their internet connections.. instant messaging and chatrooms are the most important advances in communication since the telephony.. actually no they're not important in the important sense.. but they are significant..

i don't really know what i'm getting at .. but i think there is some truth to what the first poster said..

i'm gonna shut my comptuer of fafter this.

Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:27 pm

PokeHerFace

Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 361
Location: behind

you can definately link the advent of telecomunication breakthroughs with a type of global conciousness, true. Also true, is the sence of skepticism is hightened as the speed by which a greater and greater perecentage are "logged on" increases.

It's mere technology. The process of efficiency by which new inventions, wether thought invoked or mechanically produced, expand the "economies" of scale without any increase in physical output:money, sweat, tears, whatever. "Economies" in this case is people's thirst for information and relationships as goods and services, and in addition to raw material goods and services

But, yes, its impossible to deny the wired globe. Connection is taken for granted. Collectively being consious, in a sense, or perhaps in essence, is greatly affected by technology. Think about what the printing press did for Europe. People could read someone's thoughts, beliefs, or creeds, on their own time, not having to go and listen to it all at once. The collective conscious was finally popularized. It was always populated.

The collective UNconscious is idealic. It's the differnce between perception and conception. You can conceive consciousness because we are always awake. Even when we are sleeping we are rapidly conscious. Trying to tap into a collective unconscious is like praying. It's a matter of faith. It's a more satisfying thought for me because there can be no end to the debate. No one can tell me what I think about unconsciousness, God, the force, whatever, is wrong.

b.crow
30 stones crew
"how can time exist if i can just set back my clock in the spring just to help world trade and production."

Mon Apr 14, 2003 10:55 pm

wordsauce

Joined: 27 Jul 2002
Posts: 331
Location: Urbana, IL

the road less travelled... is the path of the negative.

In the path of the affirmative the road travelled is that of the ascetic. The reasoning used to navigate this path is often logic and rationality. The pitfall along this path is the creation of the ego, and as a biproduct the unavoidable differentiation (of everything, often in condescending fashion). Aristotle embodied the philosophical aspect of the path of the affirmative.

But there is Hericlitus. A contemporary of Aristotle... Hericlitus says:

Men are as forgetful and heedless in their waking moments of what is going on around them as they are during their sleep. Fools, although they hear, are like the deaf; to them the adage applies that whenever they are present they are absent. One should not act of speak as if he were asleep. The waking have one world in common; sleepers have each a private world of his own. Whatever we see when awake is death, when asleep, dreams.

This is the philosophy of the road less travelled, of the path of the negative, of the path of the mystic. The reasoning (if at all it can be called that) which guides along this path is a leap of faith. By stopping thought, and by opposing the mind with emptiness, stillness, and nothingness the mystic should wait for the absolutely sudden onset of awareness. As Hericlitus would say, being awake. Yet the pitfall along this path is obvious to be lethargy.

While most people will hesitate at the thought that the mind is a hinderance and also doubt the accused sleep that they have never awoken from, this is a result of the domination of the path of the affirmative for the past two thousand years. As said, the pitfall of this path is the egoism that results. With egoism comes opinions, with many opinions - sometimes contradictory - comes the need to value. Thus, the spectrum of interpretation has been viewed as a linear progression with 'correct' views and 'incorrect' views. This is why affirmative-based relgions stress the importance of right and wrong.

Thus, the negative path (and disassociate the negative connotation associated with the word negative... the path of the affirmative has also been called the male path, while the path of the negative has been called the female path...) has been lost to the majority for centuries and - at least to me - the fundamental difference within the path of the mystic is the viewing of the linear progression as a circular progression.

Looking at the line from A to B as someone along the path of the affirmative would, A could represent uncondoned behavior, while B could represent the behavior that satisfies the judge's logic. From the path of the negative though, this cannot be, and nothing is right or wrong, as judging would involve thinking, which is the bane of this path. Thus, instead the relationship between A and B would be viewed by ths mystic as a circle, or a line that begins and ends upon itself. Thus, A and B are the same.

It is this thought that scares the logical world away.

I never fully understood the personal importance my senior quote would have. Below my picture in the yearbook it says:

Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so. --William Shakespeare

Returning to the original point, the fact that 99.9% of the people in this world will defend the importance of their mind and also deny the dark sleep that their knowledge of awareness is.

Conscious mind. Subconscious mind. Unconscious mind. Collective unconscious mind. Freud examined downwards to uncover the realities that exist below us. Do not be so EGOtistical to assume that what man primarily operates upon, the conscious mind, is the pinnacle. Freud was brilliant, his world was short-sighted.

Sri Aurobindo is brilliant as well. Above our so-called conscious mind is the real-conscious mind... the goal of meditation. Beyond this real-conscious mind is the superconscious mind, which is comparable to crystal clear perspective. Beyond this is the collective superconscious; this is what people are talking about when they refer to God. Yet beyond this is the cosmic superconscious. Buddha calls it Nirvana, Mahavira calls it Kaivalya. I call it THE TRUTH.

Why is this so wacky sounding? Aristotle won the battle. Aristotle has captured all the universities and thus everywhere logic is taught instead of mystery.

What Aristotle has to say about Hericlitus?

This man has some defect - biological, physiological, characterological - some defect is there. Otherwise, why should he insist that there exists a harmony between the opposites? Opposites are opposites; there is no harmony. Life is life, and death is death: be clear about it. This man seems to be a muddler.

And so you say to me... but that is why I wrote this.

Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:52 pm

SneepSnopDotComCOCKRING WRAITH

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3087
Location: Wisconsin

Dont get it twisted people.... there has always been a collective (un)consciousness.... stuff like the internet is just going to be a tool to prove it

Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:44 am

KrangTHE ORC BREATH

Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 811
Location: NSW, australia

Instant communication may be important, but more important is the fact we live in a hyperreal world where mass media creates our reality. Thus the 'collective concious' is swayed towards that which mass media tells us, and in such a strong consumer capitalist society it increases greed and has made the ego out of control.

Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:03 am

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