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Originally Posted by Whitey

When news contain "two people suffered anxiety" you know it couldn't have been too devastating.

While I will refrain from getting into the topic of the OP due to my often getting WAY to into conversations like this, I will say: Dood, if ever you have someone fire rockets around/at/near you, I am reasonably sure you as well would "suffer anxiety".
I mean lol....rockets...yikes.

"There are other sites on the internet designed for people to make friends or relationships. This isn't one" Darsithis Super Moderator
Proof that the mmochamp community can be a bitter and lonely place. What a shame.

I do. But you're forgetting that said land belonged to Egypt and Jordan, who lost it in a war of aggression. So nothing was stolen, and the borders are completely legal.

Then again, I know nothing I say will convince you.

The borders were trespassed and are illegal and recognised so on an international level.
Even the USA are asking to stop building illegal settlements.
But they're probably all crazy and you're the right one.

---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 06:57 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Kalyyn

All things considered, Israel has shown a lot of restraint in this whole ordeal with the Palestinians. I mean, this is basically the same situation as Saddam and the Kurds. And we all know how Saddam handled that...

Kudos to Israel for not just exterminating them.

Erm... But they are?
Hold on, are you saying extermination or genocide can't be called so unless you wear a Military suit and a gas mask?
Block access of primary building goods and there you have it. Silent extermination.
Saddam ended up as he did. No one would forgive Israel gasing the Palestinians. So they are doing it silently.
And we are doing nothing. Us supports them and ue watches.
Kudos to what again?

Don't blame Mass Effect, blame Romance Languages. An 'a' on the end of a word indicates female gender.

Back on topic, you have to look farther than '48 for the roots of this thing. But not thousands of years, only a few more decades. I have no clue what the militants in Gaza think they can accomplish. Do they think that if they get a retaliatory ass-whooping even worse than the last time, then they'll win world opinion? Might work but it involves thousands more dead neighbors and buildings in rubble and uranium in their soil. Do they have exactly zero hope of turning Gaza around from the inside?

Don't blame Mass Effect, blame Romance Languages. An 'a' on the end of a word indicates female gender.

Back on topic, you have to look farther than '48 for the roots of this thing. But not thousands of years, only a few more decades. I have no clue what the militants in Gaza think they can accomplish. Do they think that if they get a retaliatory ass-whooping even worse than the last time, then they'll win world opinion? Might work but it involves thousands more dead neighbors and buildings in rubble and uranium in their soil. Do they have exactly zero hope of turning Gaza around from the inside?

Like you mean, with proper elections recognised as valid? Sure why not why don't they do it...
Hold on... They did!
Hamas got into politics, same as the Ira of Northern Ireland did with Sinn Fein (which after a few years turned its back on warfare to dedicate fully on politics), but Israel, clearly lacking the ability to see ahead, did what we all know.

It really is a shame how terrible Israel's PR office, and how phenomenal the anti-Israel PR is.
I mean, by looking at the media you'd think every single IDF soldier is a bloodthirsty maniac who only wants to eat Palestinian children (hint, we're not).

There is nothing terrible about Israel's PR. It's just that the people who oppose you have got tons of money to throw away left and right, and buy people, esp media people. It all boils down to the fact that the enemy's propaganda has got more funds that yours does.

Then again, many of those who are "anti-Israel" are actually anti-semite people who are trying to do their best to harm Israel in whatever way they can, and what is more they do it for free and out of the belief that doing so is for the best of the whole mankind. This is again due to the fact that there is a lot of anti-semitic material that turns people into anti-semites.

Further: if you want to try to convince people that the people from the Tsahal are not evil as they are portrayed by the enemy's propaganda, perhaps it would be best if you chose a different avatar. Citing the Tsahal's code of conduct might also help, esp the first few paragraphs.

Veteran vanilla player - I was 31 back in 2005 when I started playing WoW - Nostalrius raider with a top raid guild.

While I will refrain from getting into the topic of the OP due to my often getting WAY to into conversations like this, I will say: Dood, if ever you have someone fire rockets around/at/near you, I am reasonably sure you as well would "suffer anxiety".
I mean lol....rockets...yikes.

Im sure he wouldnt mind 122mm rockets with 40kg warhead along with bolts/10cm nails and 2cm steel balls fired into his city, i mean it's just little rockets no harm at all.

Like you mean, with proper elections recognised as valid? Sure why not why don't they do it...
Hold on... They did!
Hamas got into politics, same as the Ira of Northern Ireland did with Sinn Fein (which after a few years turned its back on warfare to dedicate fully on politics), but Israel, clearly lacking the ability to see ahead, did what we all know.

It's facts. Not opinions.

I've never said I thought that collective punishment that Gaza takes is justified, I'm just trying to figure out the playbook of Hamas. They've seen what Israel's willing to do to them, and not even talking about the slow shit, but the all out shit.

So you're saying that if Israel just left them alone longer after Hamas got elected, they would have gotten bored of firing rockets and living on rage? If they didn't cage in the West Bank, they would have run out of suicide bombers eventually...

To a certain degree, I think that's true, but I think there's roughly zero chance of any government taking that forward-looking a position toward the defense of their citizenry.

I am still baffled by how touchy people get about Israel. Multiple genocides are happening simultaneously throughout the world right now, and nobody ever makes threads about those. Not a single fuck is given for the thousands of innocents slaughtered every year in Africa or Southeast Asia. But when Israel retaliates against Palestinian rebels? Hold on to your ass, because this is an international emergency! Forget about ethnic cleansing and human trafficking, we need to stop Israel RIGHT FUCKING NOW!

I am still baffled by how touchy people get about Israel. Multiple genocides are happening simultaneously throughout the world right now, and nobody ever makes threads about those. Not a single fuck is given for the thousands of innocents slaughtered every year in Africa or Southeast Asia. But when Israel retaliates against Palestinian rebels? Hold on to your ass, because this is an international emergency! Forget about ethnic cleansing and human trafficking, we need to stop Israel RIGHT FUCKING NOW!

Somebody explain that to me.

Those multiple genocides and sex trafficking and such aren't happening with the express support of the world's only superpower.

'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
Or a yawing hole in a battered head
And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
And there they lay I damn me eyes
All lookouts clapped on Paradise
All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

Well, we in the US didn't consider (for example) the Sudanese government as our number one ally in the region, they don't have nuclear weaponry, they weren't considered to be the one reasonable, democratic government in Africa, and they don't have a steady supply of people defending their actions on the interwebs.

So, I think it's inaccurate to say that not a single fuck was given about Darfur, but there are real reasons why the Israel/Palestine conflict generates the controversy it does. Certainly some of it is just the human tendency to argue, are you suggesting that everyone who is critical of Israel is a racist? Because that would probably feed another page or so...

The US doesn't send free billions to Africa or SE Asia.
The US doesn't veto UN resolutions on behalf of Africa or SE Asia.
The US doesn't send 80+ congressmen a year on "fact finding/ vote buying" missions to Africa or SE Aisa.

All things considered, Israel has shown a lot of restraint in this whole ordeal with the Palestinians. I mean, this is basically the same situation as Saddam and the Kurds. And we all know how Saddam handled that...

Kudos to Israel for not just exterminating them.

Exterminating? What outrageous thing to say after you've killed their children, stole their land and imposed an apartheid judicial system.

The US doesn't send free billions to Africa or SE Asia.
The US doesn't veto UN resolutions on behalf of Africa or SE Asia.
The US doesn't send 80+ congressmen a year on "fact finding/ vote buying" missions to Africa or SE Aisa.

So do you understand why Israel gets attention?

So I was correct. This isn't about Israel or Palestine. This is about America. Further evidenced by the fact that Russia does the same thing for Syria, a regime that is openly and actively committing far worse crimes than Israel has ever dreamed of. Now, I do see people getting upset over Syria, I'll give you that. But they're mad at Syria, not Russia.

So as I said, people only care about this because big bad America is involved.

Well, we in the US didn't consider (for example) the Sudanese government as our number one ally in the region, they don't have nuclear weaponry, they weren't considered to be the one reasonable, democratic government in Africa, and they don't have a steady supply of people defending their actions on the interwebs.

So, I think it's inaccurate to say that not a single fuck was given about Darfur, but there are real reasons why the Israel/Palestine conflict generates the controversy it does. Certainly some of it is just the human tendency to argue, are you suggesting that everyone who is critical of Israel is a racist? Because that would probably feed another page or so...

Also Darfur and similar genocides are mostly confined to the countries they're occurring in. Israel is more an issue for the whole region, since there are so many regimes in that vital part of the world that want Israel gone.

'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
Or a yawing hole in a battered head
And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
And there they lay I damn me eyes
All lookouts clapped on Paradise
All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!