The seeds of hatred are being forced to bear fruit

D.P. SATISH writes from New Delhi: What is now happening in Karnataka is quite disturbing; almost unthinkable. People like me who went to school and college in the 1980s and ’90s never imagined that one day our peaceful and harmonious State would be sliced and scythed so systematically on communal lines.

The seeds of communal politics sowed on our salubrious soil during L.K. Advani‘s rath yatra is now bearing fruit. Or is being genetically modified to bear fruit.

“The Christians in the past had made contribution to the development of modern Kannada. Rev Kittel who composed the first Kannada dictionary was one of our revered ancestors. The Christians continue to run hospital and schools. Most of the gentle and caring nurses in hospitals are Christians.”

Not just that.

Many people from my father’s and grandfather’s generation always practised communal harmony and held Catholic missionaries in high esteem.

Thyanandur Puttannaiah, a religious Hindu and a remarkable man from my home district Shimoga, had dedicated his book “Naa kanda Malenaadu” (a definitive account on the hilly region of Malnad) to Christian missionaries!

It was not a surprising gesture during those days. He had great respect for them because of their social service. He truly believed that caring and loving Catholic nuns and priests had introduced modern civilisation to remote, inaccessible Malnad, which was known as a den of cholera and malaria during the British raj.

My grandfather believed that the entire generation of Kannadigas in the Malnad and Coastal Karnataka survived the dreaded diseases of cholera and malaria only because of the selfless service of Catholics in the late 19th and early 20th century.

The first Kannada newspaper Mangalooru Samachara was started by a missionary from Germany, Father Herman Mogling, in 1843. The Basel Mission Church published first books in Kannada.

The reverend Uttangi Channappa was a renowned Kannada folklorist, historian and reseracher of the 20th century.

The great English teachers like J.C. Roelho and Armando Menezes shaped Mysore and Karnatak Universities during their formative years. A Hindu majority coast wholeheartedly sent Joaquim and Margaret Alva, and the Lobo Prabhu, to Parliament; Oscar Fernandes five consecutive terms.

And let us not forget that George Fernandes is a Mangalorean and still a Mangalorean at heart. Roger Michael Humphrey Binny proudly wore the Karnataka cap as its captain in dozens of Ranji Trophy matches and made us happy.

These are just a few examples of thousands of other good and great Christians, who have immensely contributed to the Kannada culture and public life, in ways big and small.

The Bajrang Dal and other radical Hindu organisations either don’t know anything about our history or they don’t want the majority of Hindus to acknowledge the importance of Christianity in Karnataka.

The sangh parivar feels empowered after the BJP captured power in Karnataka in the elections last May. With or without the knowledge or consent of the government, radical organisations like the Bajrang Dal and Sri Rama Sena have unleashed a reign of terror in some parts of the State.

There are enough reasons to believe that a section in the ruling BJP is stoking the fires of inter-religious animosity in Karnataka for political reasons. Anti-Christian sentiment is travelling from the coast to the capital under a benign and benevolent government which seems to think it was sworn into office to protect and promote only one community.

It is difficult to belive that Oscar Fernandes represented the present epicentre of saffron politics Udupi in the Lok Sabha for five consecutive terms between 1980-1998.

It is a fact, of course, that the neo-radical protestant evangelists like ‘New Life Church’ are coercing innocent, poor Hindus from the lower strata of the society and converting them in some parts of the State. There are serious allegations of money and other blandishments playing a big role in the conversions.

But Roman Catholics?

The single largest and oldest Christian community in the State is being attacked by right wing zealots. Perhaps, the semi-literate zealots do not know the difference between Catholics and other neo-radical evangelists.

Catholics are the most visible Christians because of their magnificent Churches, convents, colleges, seminaries, Cathedrals, Basilicas and hospitals. They are being made to pay the price for the alleged anti-Hindu activities of other Christian sects.

Even if the new sects are involved in large-scale conversion activities, Bajrang Dal or any other radical organisation has no right to take law unto its own hands and punish the guilty.

B.S. Yediyurappa should realise that he is chief minister of Karnataka and it is his Constitutional obligation to protect all religions and castes irrespective of the their political affiliations and leanings.

Another sad development is the complete politicisation of the entire issue.

When Karnataka is looking for a statesman to douse the raging communal flames, the Congress-led central government, the BJP government, and the idle and frustrated, JDS are all busy making political calculations. The selective invoking of the Article 355 by the UPA only against NDA-ruled Karnataka and Orissa has not gone down well even with non-BJP people from the State.

They feel that the Centre has no moral right to warn Karnataka and turn a blind eye to States like West Bengal or Tamil Nadu or even Maharashtra. The BJP is cleverly using it to consolidate votes and communalise the entire State. The wily old fox H.D. Deve Gowda also shouldn’t forget that nearly a dozen people were killed in communal clashes when his son H.D. Kumaraswamy was the chief minister.

“Secularists “, Congress, JDS etc can easily fool the benevolent media, but not the people.

Actually, they are aiding the BJP and other communal forces in their eagerness to prove their ‘secular’ credentials. Falling over each other for votes and 15 minutes of fame will finally end in their fall and the raise of communal elements. Gujarat is a shining example of that.

What the media thinks is negative publicity is actually positive news for communal elements. It helps them grow stronger.

Let’s also admit that Karnataka has not always been a tolerant state. But the core philosophy of Kannada and Karnataka have always been to live and let live. It was never divided on communal lines and the animosity was not everywhere.

“…that we have had our pettiness and feuds; our limitations of outlook and failures in achievement; our bloodbaths given and taken. Our chieftains have carried off brides from marriage pavilions; our warriors have destroyed men and lands when fiendish fits were on. In their turn, they have been invaded and their capital cities have been razed or burnt.”

“The history of all peoples has been much the same and littered with episodes good and not so good. But the long range value preference, the pride and grateful memory of Kannada poets has been, by and large, for tolerance and the arts of peace; for conservation.

“This is true not of poets alone but the Kannada people as a whole….

“Allied with this distrust of fanaticism and flamboyance is a certain unsparing insistence of self-discipline and style. It is expressed in the numerous stories about Visvesvaraya, in the fastidiousness of Generals Cariappa and Thimaya, in the philosophical volumes of Professor Hiriyanna and in the dance of Shanta Rao. In its gentler form it can be detected in the lines and brush strokes of K.K. Hebbar, in the glances and drives of G.R. Vishwanath, in the meditative aalaap of Mallikarjun Mansoor and in the prose of R.K. Narayan.”

As an obsessed Kannadiga, I feel hurt and sad.

Because, the carefully built image of my State has severely been dented.

As one journalist wrote, “Oh God forgive them for they know what they are doing.”

143 Responses to “The seeds of hatred are being forced to bear fruit”

To what level these pseudo secular, double standards will take us? If Bajarangdal does, its a sin and if Huriyat leaders do it, its right. We talk about anti-Christian mobs, we are mum about conversions. Is being Hindu a sin in this ‘Secular’ Country?

None of the great writers(?) author mentioned has guts to question that. If you are secularist, you should be above all religions, i.e. vishwa manava dharma, not just against Hinduism. But if you just want to get awards, such psedo-secularist writings will help…

Nobody attacked christians or muslims because they belong to that religion. Every time, attacks happen as a reaction to evil deed, like burning train or publishing sathya darshini which show Hinduism in a bad light.

Very bad blog post. Just flaming.. May be author wants to be Jnana peeti no 8…

NEW DELHI: Friday’s police encounter in which the alleged mastermind of Indian Mujahideen was killed was stage-managed by the police, say Jamia Nagar residents, amid emerging reports that all three bullets that hit Delhi police inspector Mohan Chand Sharma were fired from behind, raising suspicion that his own men might have shot him.

The Muslim-majority locality has a few grainy videos, some eye-witnesses and significant discrepancy theories to support their claim and is putting them together to demand a National Human Rights Commission inquiry. The residents have already formed a fact-finding team to look into the police version of the encounter.

Eyewitnesses claim they only saw plainclothes policemen fire from their guns. “They were standing on the stairs and firing inside the house. I did not see anyone fire at the cops from inside the house,” said Rashid Ahmed, who lives nearby.

Another eyewitness told the fact-finding committee, “I was asleep when I heard gunshots. I rushed to the balcony and saw some men armed with AK-47s firing inside a house. I immediately took out my video camera and shot the shootout. I didn’t see anyone fire at the police. Only the cops were firing at the men inside,” said Parvez.

AIIMS doctors who conducted a “preliminary autopsy” on Sharma, the Delhi police inspector killed in the encounter, said the bullets hit him from behind and exited from the front. They did not find any bullets lodged inside his body. The doctors confirmed that three bullets hit Sharma — one in the left shoulder, one in the thigh and the last in the stomach.

Over an hour after Friday’s encounter the police told the Jamia residents about terrorists in the flat, says Parvez.

The police claim five terrorists, including Mohammed Atif, the alleged mastermind of the Indian Mujahideen, were hiding inside the fourth floor flat of the L-18 house, after carrying out the September 13 Delhi blasts.

But Rashid is not convinced. “At least 300-400 cops had surrounded the L-18 house from all sides after cordoning off the entire area. Armed cops were also standing on the terrace. It is hard to believe that two terrorist managed to escape,” he said.

The heavy police presence in the area, six days after the encounter, is making residents uncomfortable. “We want the police to be removed. It is very depressing to see men carrying pistols standing near the house. We will never be able to forget the incident if the police continue to be posted here,” said Momtaz Rahbar, a software professional.

Mr. Satish,
The matter is not so simple.
When invaders from Arabia, Persia and Turkey invaded India, they put one condition to the conquered people: Convert to Islam to save yourselves.
The reason was : Your loyalty is converted by converting your faith.
When the Portugese sought permission from the King of Vijayanagar and from the Sultan of Bijapur to trade on the coastal belt of Karnataka, the rulers put the condition that the native people should not be converted to Christianity. The reason? The converted people change the loyalty! In spite of this, the converted fishermen fought on the side of the Portugese. That’s why Tipu Sultan marched 30,000 converted natives from the coast to Kodagu as prisoners.

Christian missionaries did not learn Kannada for the sake of learning. They learnt it because they wanted their literature to be translated into Kannada , they made the Veda the sathyaveda etc. Even Max Mueller did not learn Sanskrit for the sake of language for he hahd other reasons in his mind. Even the charity hospitals are not doing anything freely. Please don’t bring economics into the picture of running a hospital…Everybody knows about it, even in rural areas . And in cities it is a big business. Nothing less than that.

<<Many people from my father’s and grandfather’s generation always practised communal harmony and held Catholic missionaries in high esteem.<<

very few of our forefathers had spine. they either faught against the Portuguese in Goa or fled to Mangalore and Kerala by the sea route to escape from forced convertion. How many of you remember or know your Grandfather’s father’s or G/f’s G/f’s name? Memories dont last long.

Fazlur Rehman.. Are you too from Azamgadh? Daring are Delhi police to have made entry to the Muslim dominated area in Delhi to shoot the terrorists. Many such places in UP are no entry places for Police or even Military and hide all criminals and anti-nationals.

I think people need to realize that OTHER people converting faiths have nothing to do with them personally. To each person his own and no one has any right to comment on hindus becoming christians. If you want you stay a Hindu but you have no right to say that other people cannot convert. So this conversion ‘controversy’ is completely contrived and basically a bullshit distraction with no merit.

The only way minorities can protect themselves is by forging alliances with the oppressed communities. Violence only understands violence. All political parties irrespective what they say, are communal at heart. Take an example of Lebanon. Prosperity makes sense when there is safety. we will burn and perish but let us also take some companions. Dignity is more important in life, without which you are a living dead. Death is more preferable. I am not religious but stand up with the oppressed

>>Catholics are the most visible Christians because of their magnificent Churches, convents, colleges, seminaries, Cathedrals, Basilicas and hospitals. They are being made to pay the price for the alleged anti-Hindu activities of other Christian sects.>>

DPS you should know that the Roman Catholics are not as sweet and benign as you make them out to be. Their pope who was on a state visit to India during the NDA rule and gave a call to harvest the souls in India. In fact during the earlier centuries when North/South America was colonised it was done mostly by RCs and not by todays televangelists. Hope this helps clear the cob webs from your mind about RCs.

Moreover, there is not altruistic motive in RCs building schools,hospitals, orphanages etc. It is just a means to the end of conversion.

AIIMS doctors who conducted a “preliminary autopsy” on Sharma, the Delhi police inspector killed in the encounter, said the bullets hit him from behind and exited from the front. They did not find any bullets lodged inside his body. The doctors confirmed that three bullets hit Sharma — one in the left shoulder, one in the thigh and the last in the stomach.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Encounter cop killed in fake encounter!!!!!but why?????? Was he a terrorist or a supporter of terrorist. Are the communual disturbances created by the government for some ulterior motive? Is this some kind of election stunt?

“Ours was a Lutheran Mission School—mostly for boarders who were Christian converts. The teachers were all converts, and, towards the few non-Christian students like me, they displayed a lot of hatred. Most of the Christian students also detested us. The scripture classes were mostly devoted to attacking and lampooning the Hindu gods, and violent abuses were heaped on idol-worshippers as a prelude to glorifying Jesus.”

A good account is given by Tapan Roychoudhury, an eminent historian, no friend of Sangh Parivar, in “perceptions, emotions and sensibilities”. It primarily deals with situation in Bengal which if looked into will also be similar with that of Karnataka.

Missionary role in development of local language was NOT for love towards that- but for publishing Bible, and convert people.

Today, an obscure group “New Life” is engaged in abusing Hinduism for conversion. At that time, THE VERY TOP of missionary church, was engaged in that. There is a description how Bankim Chatterjee faught with Mr. Hastie (top Missionary Official in whole of Asia working from Calcutta then), when later wrote an extremely abusive article against Janmasthami Celebration (Birth of Krishna) by Shobabazar Zamindars in the pages of the Statesman.

Roychoudhury was candid in accepting that Hindu revivalism of 19th century was because of long abuse of Hindu sensitibilities by missionaries, often from very top.

This does NOT justify attacking Church. But, don’t glorify the dubious historic role played by missionaries. At the core of that was a villification campaign against Hinduism, indigeneous culture.

Jiski lathi uski bhainse. There is a proverb, When the Muslim rulers ruled theirs was the writ. There were jazia, forcible conversion, loot, etc. When Chrisitian rule replaced them their’s was the writ. West coast from Ratnagiri to Cochin have Saraswats,GSBs etc. who did flee from Goa. Some were converted and carry old surnames.
In Bangalore also all the best places are with the Christians. From Hudson cirlce on wards all best places are with them.

That does not mean that one should be intolerant and harm others. But cirucmstances are changed. Majority of Hindus are literate now. Their pride is rising. The communities that enjoyed patronage earlier should understand and adjust

Even as early as 1930 there is a humorous episode about conversion speech by a padre written by Masti, I think – It runs something like this – nimma krishanu bandane – illa, nimma Ramanu bandane…….

Karnataka’s connection to the spate of terror strikes across the country is becoming stronger with each passing day.

Intelligence reports suggest that training camps were extensively held in Karnataka and they are also probing the angle which suggests that the bombs were made here and also the arms and ammunition transported out of Karnataka.

Economy of Tulunadu is suffering because of the communal riots that have taken place recently and poor people are affected. I see only one solution. Deport the GSBs, Christian/Hindus alike to Goa from where they migrated . Now that the Portuguese are no more there, they don’t have to fear any persecution . My request to Digamber Kamat is to take all his people back and leave the Tulunadu people in peace

I do agree with satish on some parts as I studied in a convent in jog falls, I have fond remembrance of the fathers and the mother there. If some one in the current BJP govt is instigating it It is the most imp action yeddy can take by asking these idiots not to dig their own graves because this is the only chance a BJP govt will get to make a difference.

Also madam Sonia need not show here christian face by sending selective memos to certain states the electorate here is very learned and mature so they know what shes really trying to do if shes concerned of getting a handful of MP’S from this state she better clean up her act fast. The congress should know the people of this state better than any other party.

Assuming your own home-fed Christian Mythology is true, you and your ancestors appear very very ungrateful toward the love and tolerance preached by these great souls you mention! How dare you not impressed by the selfless sacrifices in nation building?…However a remedy is at hand. You should without delay persuade your remaining elderly folk and at the least sacrifice yourself on the high altar of Catholicism and henceforth and forthwith convert yourself leave the evil cult called Hinduism and go by the Christan moniker Reverend Daniel Peter Satishappa. The modern secular Malnad Messiah has arrived!

I know these evil Kannadigas have looted your folkd and subjugated them into slavery! While you are at it please take backyour Rais, Shettys and Mallyas and others and keep them safe from all harm in your sea fortress called TuluNadu aka KittyLand. They can plant rice, fish and make coir products for the city folk. What do you think?

Advani did not start Ayodhya. He did not open its gate, or allowed Puja.

He spoke about necessity to have a dialogue and considering Hindu sensitivity abt Ayodhya, wanted to RELOCATE THAT BUILDING.

It was fundoos from JNU who aligned with Islamists and demanded a birth certificate of Rama. Worse, fringe elements of VHP were quoted to tell Muslims that 10,000 Mosques are to be reclaimed by Hindus as a next step.

When Congress developed cold feet, he joined Ayodhya in 1989.

If anybody, its the JNUwallas, Islamists and a section of gullible Press who created this mess.

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE RECORD TO PROVE THAT RATH YATRA CREATED RIOT. WHEN ADVANI WAS IN SOUTH, RIOT BROKE IN NORTH. WHEN HE WAS IN NORTH, RIOTS BROKE IN SOUTH/

Fact remains: Today, there is MORE support to Ayodhya than even in 1990s. Continued opposition to a grand temple, coupled with terrorism is a recipe for even harder line of Hindutva to flourish

The KeLadi Naayakas used to invite Xtians from Konkana for their expertise in agriculture and for trade. One has to acknowledge the Isaist contributions in different fields. But that doesn’t give them any rights to abuse our Gods and mock at our practices.

It is “mission acomplished” for missionaries in TN, Kerala and AP, and now the target is Karnataka. Why do the secularists protest only when there is a reaction by some Hindu groups and not when cross marks pop up on remote government lands? Why can’t anyone investigate the massive flow of funds to harvest souls? The media is always ready to point fingers at our maThas for small issues.

Isn’t it a bit unsettling to learn that the once peaceful state has been the sanctuary of terrorist organisation starting from LTTE to today SIMI etc. WTF is our law enforcement agencies doing, what is with the state intelligence department. Are they too busy gathering information on the oppostion leaders for the ruling party morons?

First and foremost the Christains are the only religious faith which believes in conversion by hook or crook.We have several frauds on tv trying to give the impression that a conversion would cure them of cancer , deafness , paralysis , blindness etc.Only AIDS is pending.If all this is being defended by these 3 rd rate corrrespondents they have to question the pope on the neccesity of Hospitals.Most of the poor countries are still governed by christian beliefs.The Flow of funds should go there rather than con the gullible.
Christains are hypocrites who cannot accept that Racism and untouchability still exist.We are yet to see a BLACK Christaian in a powerful position in the usa or Uk.Dalit Christians is the new word coined by the catholics.And to top it all they demand reservations for these converts.Obviously the likes of ananthamurthy or dp satish would never find these FAKE….

DPS is looking for an award from the government. he has a fite on hand with Vivian fernandes providing some competition.

Ever since Orissa riots, the Mangalore christian community has been behaving as if they were directly under attack by Hindus. The anti-Hindu rhetoric, propaganda and partisan attacks were more than provocative. If you need a proof, visit dishonest websites like http://www.daijiworld.com whose only job is to smear anything Hindu. They even gave a free pass to thugs from KFD! I haven’t seen any Catholic leader condemning cults like ‘New Life’ and the conversion activities.

Then, the inevitable thing hapened – Bhajarang Dal attacked a few places. As much as i was dissappointed by these stupid Bhajarngis and their thuggish act, you should note that there were no death or assaults. It was only an attack on property.

The reaction by Catholic youth was anything but peaceful. It’s all clearly documented by media reports and news videos. Thugs pelting stones at public and Police from church compounds can be clearly seen. The same thugs would go and mingle with the ‘peaceful’ praying devotees inside the church when Police chased them!!

For christian community in Mangalore, this is a political tool too. Congress has been fielding Christian candidate for the past three assembly election and getting their ass kicked by BJP. Cong(I) candidate, Ivan D’Souza acts like a direct spokesperson of Catholic community. Can you imagine what will hapen if he ever gets elected?

Anyways, nobody wants to see riots or tension. But, it will be stupid thing to ignore the true reasons, dynamics and real culprits.

As much as I hate to say, this is only the beginning. I’m sure there would be more of such incidents in the future if we don’t address the rootcauses and hatred. True healing can happen only when both patries behave responsibily. Picking on only Hindus and expecting infinite patience from them is way too dishonest and unrealistic.

If Bajrang dal is opposing conversions, it is because they are fascists.
If IM opposes Hindus, (Indians at large), it is because they were oppressed by “few people” Poor lot, lot of sympathies to them
They can fire bullets from within houses when Police go to arrest them, and our “secular” new channels relay enormous stories of their “innocence”

What double standards.
No doubt Mr.Satish, that you are employee of the most “secular” news channel called CNN-IBN

The Death of Traditional Hinduism
A tragic occurrence in the very long history of Hinduism was witnessed throughout the 19th century, the destructive magnitude of which Hindu leaders and scholars today are only beginning to adequately assess and address. This development both altered and weakened Hinduism to such a tremendous degree that Hinduism has not yet even begun to recover.
British Attack on Hinduism
The classical, traditional Hinduism that had been responsible for the continuous development of thousands of years of sophisticated culture, architecture, music, philosophy, ritual and theology came under devastating assault during the 19th century British colonial rule like at no other time in India’s history.
Innovative Cultural Genocide
What the Hindu community experienced under British Christian domination, however, was an ominously innovative form of cultural genocide. What they experienced was not an attempt at the physical annihilation of their culture, but a deceivingly more subtle program of intellectual and spiritual annihilation. It is easy for a people to understand the urgent threat posed by an enemy that seeks to literary kill them. It is much harder, though, to understand the threat of an enemy who, while remaining just as deadly, claims to seek only to serve a subjugated people’s best interests.
Anglicized Hindu Intellectuals
During this short span of time in the 19th century, the ancient grandeur and beauty of a classical Hinduism that had stood the test of thousands of years, came under direct ideological attack. What makes this period in Hindu history most especially tragic is that the main apparatus that the British used in their attempts to destroy traditional Hinduism were the British educated, spiritually co-opted sons and daughters of Hinduism itself. Seeing traditional Hinduism through the eyes of their British masters, a pandemic wave of 19th century Anglicized Hindu intellectuals saw it as their solemn duty to “Westernize” and “modernize” traditional Hinduism to make it more palatable to their new European overlords. One of the phenomena that occurred during this historic period was the fabrication of a new movement known as “neo-Hinduism”.
What is Neo-Hinduism?
Neo-Hinduism was an artificial religious construct used as a paradigmatic juxtaposition to the legitimate traditional Hinduism that had been the religion and culture of the people for thousands of years. Neo-Hinduism was used as an effective weapon to replace authentic Hinduism with a British invented version designed to make a subjugated people easier to manage and control.
The Christian and British inspired neo-Hinduism movement attempted to execute several overlapping goals, and did so with great success:
a) The subtle Christianization of Hindu theology, which included concerted attacks on iconic imagery (archana, or murti), panentheism, and continued belief in the beloved gods and goddesses of traditional Hinduism.
b) The imposition of the Western scientific method, rationalism and skepticism on the study of Hinduism in order to show Hinduism’s supposedly inferior grasp of reality.
c) Ongoing attacks against the ancient Hindu science of ritual in the name of simplification and democratization of worship.
d) The importation of Radical Universalism from liberal, Unitarian / Universalist Christianity as a device designed to severely water down traditional Hindu philosophy.
The Death of Traditional Hinduism
The dignity, strength and beauty of traditional Hinduism was recognized as the foremost threat to Christian European rule in India. The invention of neo-Hinduism was the response. Had this colonialist program been carried out with a British face, it would not have met with as much success as it did. Therefore, an Indian face was used to impose neo-Hinduism upon the Hindu people. The resultant effects of the activities of Indian neo-Hindus were ruinous for traditional Hinduism.
The Dilemma
The primary dilemma with Hinduism as we find it today, in a nutshell, is precisely this problem of…
1) Not recognizing that there are really two distinct and conflicting Hinduisms today, Neo-Hindu and Traditionalist Hindu; and
2) With Traditionalists being the guardians of authentic Dharma philosophically and attitudinally, but not yet coming to full grips with the modern world, i.e., not yet having found a way of negotiating authentic Hindu Dharma with an ability to interface with modernity and communicate this unadulterated Hindu Dharma in a way that the modern mind can most appreciate it.
A Confused Existence
Hinduism will continue to be a religion mired in confusion about its own true meaning and value until traditionalist Hindus can assertively, professionally and intelligently communicate the reality of genuine Hinduism to the world.

A VHP karyakarta, a Swami, is killed in Orissa by Christist fundamentalists. No Christian felt ashamed. Although, when there was a backlash for the killing, convent-christist schools all over, including Karnataka, found it necessary to close schools to make childen “aware” of ‘hindus killing christists’. Now, Hindus children are going around convinced of ‘Hindu oppression of Christists’.

Islamists go on a killing spree and no mohammedan feels ashamed.

New Life Christist fundamentalists churn out denigrating literature in kannada, no Christist Kannadiga feels ashamed, including likes of DP Satish. Well, knowing they are fans of ‘laigika swatantrya’ literature by the likes of URA-mootri, I guess that is expected.

Few Kannadiga Bajarangdal members act, rather react, to fine peice of ‘literature’ from New Life Christist fundamentalists, suddenly our Kannadigas feel ashamed.

Who said the world is against to Binny, Kittel or Sangliyana? A swamy got killed in Orissa and his ashrama got attacked. Do you say that all Christians in Orissa are against Hindus and do you list the great contributions of Hindus to the society to convince them that Hindus are great, as you are doing it now for christians?

Please wake up. Nobody is saying Christians are bad. the issue is conversions and not christians.

Whatever the reason, no physical attacks and riots. Let the law take care of the issue and we can show this enthusiasm on following up the case.

Instead why can’t we get the govt. to reclaim big portions of land and properties inside the Bangalore city (I am not sure about other parts of the state) which was taken by this missionaries with the help of their British mentors. Let the govt. build institutions on this land with 100% reservation for the Dalits and Tribes whom these guys try to convert. I think they require education more than conversion and the govt. can take care of that.

DPS surely in of no doubt URA’s patta shisya. Tande the so called secularist and the sole Kannadiga in the so called non-partisan, secularist channel cnn-ibn. If you think secularism attains true meaning if a person of one religion respects the other. I have seen the ground realities when i spent 4 yrs of my engineering with people from all states. There were people from kashmir who wud say ab degree lene ka aur bandook uthaane ka. People lauding Pakistan during an Indo-Pak match. I have also come across one guy claiming he is an authentic christian and his roots trace back to portugal. If u are so secular why do u wanna call urself “authentic”?? Of course i have seen people being patriotic on the other side as well, these are the ones that i will respect. People have this tendency to blame BJP for everything and treat them as untouchables. This is very sad. BJP rose to power and prominence because of the minority appeasement of the congress governments. Congress made heroes out of villians and villians out of heroes. A tipu sultan or a Akbar doesnt represent a secular india. Its a kabir, shishunal sharif or Dayananda saraswati who represent secular India. If u are truly secular your heart should pain as much for the Kashmiri pandits as much it pains for the christians attacked. And mind it Hindu as a religion which has accepted a slew of reforms right from the sati system, child marriage, widow remarriage etc. Do you find these happening in other communities?? One doesnt wanna practice family planning. One doesnt wanna sing National Song coz it glorifies a female deity. This concept of minorites are always the target is a wrong notion. In india it has been Majority is always target for the past 1000 years since Ghazni. Our majority community is divided between Nationalists and the psuedo-secularist and DPS forms a part of the later which makes it very easy for the minorities to divide and rule.

Why is Churumuri becoming so much anti-hindu. Anti-hindu statements & hindu/majority bashing has become the new mantra of pseudo seculars nowadays.
I do not subscribe to the idea of attaching churches to save the hindu culture. But rather feel that the Govt should come to a consensus with all the concerned parties and make a legislation that says conversion is evil and banned.
Hindus have only one place on earth. That is India, the hindu rashtra. Hindus have settled abroad in many other countries, but their roots r in India.
People like DPS, Rajdeep and his ilk are inadvertantly and also due to the lure of gora’s money, bringing upon a great danger towards the very existence and practice of this great religion.

“The seeds of hatred are being forced to bear fruit” — Completely agree with the author all he has to do is go little bit back into the history. It all started with the others started invading Hinduism in India. This is the fruit of the that seeds.

Shame as the author just choose to go back in history to suit his article.

“The seeds of communal politics sowed on our salubrious soil during L.K. Advani’s rath yatra is now bearing fruit. Or is being genetically modified to bear fruit.”

The seeds of communal politics were sowed long long before Advani’s rathy yatra. The churches in karnataka have held innumerable conferences since many decades on how to dismantle Hinduism. The meeting minutes have been published in several papers and books available to us. They use several fronts like Caste and social welfare issues to denigrate Hindu Gods and Goddessess. Conversion is not the problem. The problem is the contempt in which the monotheistic faiths view the pantheistic and polytheistic faiths. The salubrious soil in Karnataka was due to the tolerant Hindus of Karnataka. All Advani’s yatra did was to consolidate the Hindu support base and gave a voice. And several of them did not take the defamation of their religion and culture lying down.

Even so called moderate Islamic ideologues have clearly claimed that if Islam is in a majority then there would be no way the Kaffirs and dhimmis would be able to conduct their religious beliefs in full freedom. See Zakir Naik’s speeches to know what is in the offing for non believers in a majority Islamic countries.

Where were UR Ananthamurthy and Kanrads when Benny Hinn and his gang advertised in full page in National newspapares that India the land of sin and darkness needs healing. Benny hinn had made no bones about his views on Hinduism which he had called satanic and demonic. These were telecast in their fundamentalist channel God TV. And Indian culture and belifs was termed as dark and obscrutarian as opposed to the purity of their belief on the dead man on the stick. When this charltan came to Bangalore the Chief mnister Dharam Singh and many congress central ministers came and prostrated to benny hinn, a man who had termed our nation and its culture as an area of darkness and sin. When Karunanidhi denigrates Rama all these eminents clap and acknowledge the great intellect of this man. They have openly supported this man for hurting the feelings of a majority community. Obviously reprraisals will follow in some way or the other.

Not one of these so called intellectuals have tried to understand what has made Hindus angry. Even if they understand they do not have the guts to tell. It is a natural and evolutionary response from the non believers in the semitic doctrine of Monotheism to organize themselves and not take these attacks on them lying down. It is called learning lessons from history. And inspite of all the whitewashing of History by these eminents we have tell tale and local proofs of how these monotheistic faiths have inflicted violence and harm on the majority. There are several local histories and records which stare out glaringly at us. In India, the basic qualification for any public Intellectual to be called an intellectual in so called liberal circles is they should bash up Hinduism. Hindu bashing is a large scale industry in India. They have done little to intelligently study the major political forces and agencies which have shaped the Indian history. Because of the growth in information technology and proliferation of innumerable number of media outlets the iron grip of these so called intellectuals have reduced to only a few elite circles of ivory tower leisure class psuedo secularists and Bleeding heart liberals. They have no mass base and neither do they understand the pulse of the people, which is a prime requirements for writers and artists. Thankfully these BLHs are not influential enough to make us feeble for soul harvesting.

It is hilarious to see the preposterous arguments employed by the usual crowd of small, shrivelled and dried up minds here justifying violence just because someone insulted “their” religion and are converting people-whom they usually don’t give a damn about at other times-to “another”.

If the Bajrangis object to the evangelist preachers (many of whom are scoundrels no doubt), then should have resorted to legal forms of protest. Justifying violence as one commenter has by defending that there was no loss of life in Mangalore, is downright stupidity. Please use the same argument the next time someone burns your personal property down but spares your life. If the Bajrangis are indeed so concerned about Hinduism why don’t they go and spread the message of Hinduism to the common man, the poor dalit.

I personally believe that all religion is a big farce but, one’s personal religious beliefs, as long as they don’t harm life and property, are one’s own matter and its best to leave it that way.

1. If Hindu Swamis go to western countries including east europe and north america and start Proselytizing, will they meet any opposition from the church or people ?

Many Hindu swamis in the west are victims of targets to Christian fundamentalists. Remmember in a state council when Rajan Jed a Hindu priest did a prayer Christian fundoos shouted him down. There are other groups like the dot busters who have physically attacked Hindus. Either way Hindu swamis do not even wear Hinduism up their sleeve and they give more focus on yoga, meditation and other non denominational teachings.
Volumes and volumes have been written by the Christian fundamentalists calling even egalatarian and liberal Hindu swamis and gurus as evil minded and satanic. However the Christian funodos are usually from the lower sections and the from the bible belt. The following of the Hindu swamis are confined mostly to the NRI indians, the upper class liberal american- europeans etc. Christianity as such is popular among the political class and the lower classes.

2. If people start adopting Hindu Faith, what will be the reaction of people

I think you are poorly read on how minorities are treated in Europe. Just remmember how Jews were massacred in Germany. The same fate awaits the Hindus but again Hindus do not convert people in the way the islamists and christians do. There are many number of Gurus and movements who have european followers and they do not call themselves Hindu.

Next post on Churumuri will be about Nanavati commission concluding that Godhra train tragedy was a conspiracy….who knows it could be from D. P. Satish. Or will he wait for URA to issue a statement on his blog so that he can use it ? Anyways Mr DPS..start preparing the list of Muslims who have contributed to Gujarat’s development..it will come in handy for the next post.

I think you donot understand english. Nobody is jutifying violence. People are talking about those who garner political/personal mileau of such events, like DPS is doing here. Most of the comments here are trying to expose these kind of people.
You do not believe in any religion doesnot make you any great. In fact, you not believing in religion, should ask for banning conversions altogether, whether forced or tempted, or anything else.

MANAGLORE Sept 26: Former MLA and leader of Communist Party of India (Marxist) G.V. Sriram Reddy has criticised the delegation, led by the seer of the Pejawar Math Vishwesha Teertha, that submitted a memorandum to the Governor demanding an end to religious conversions.

He is not the sole representative of Hindus in the State. His views do not reflect our beliefs. When did he receive the power of attorney for all Hinduism? Mr. Reddy asked at a protest meeting organised by his party against the attacks on Churches and prayer halls in the State.

Mr. Reddy challenged the seer to furnisha single case of forcible conversion registered with a police station in India since independence. Hinduism was a religion of peace and tolerance and there was a perceptible difference between spiritual Hinduism and politically motivated Hindutva.

Militant pontiffs with political affiliations are a drain on the moral beliefs of the practitioners of any religion, he said.

On the purported remarks of the seer about the alleged evangelical activities of Christian missionaries he said Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus had the right to persuade other people to share their beliefs and ideals.

The Pejawar seer himself is involved in spreading the message of Hinduism. Does he mean that the right to spreading the Hindu faith, which is being exercised in foreign countries to the hilt by the Vishwa Hindu Parishat, be curtailed? he asked.

Referring to the seers affiliation to the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and the Vishwa Hindu Parishat Mr. Reddy said: If the Pejawar seer is truly an ascetic, he should have retreated to a life of spiritualism and not taken active part in politics.

Stating that there were greater threats to the Hindu faith than conversions, he questioned propriety of the seer not leading a delegation to the Governor against atrocities against Dalits in the State. He said Home Minister V.S Acharya had not dealt sternly with those involved in the attacks on prayer halls. As a Home Minister he should provide security to everybody, irrespective of their caste, creed and political affiliations, he said.

Communalism, terrorism and unbridled capitalism had created a deep unrest in the country. People in this country are so insecure today that they are afraid to step out of their houses. This is how Europe must have looked when Nazism and fascism was on the rise, Mr. Reddy said.

Alleging that the executive wing of democracy had surrendered to communalism, he said that Deputy Commissioner of Dakshina Kannada M. Maheshwar Rao had lost the gumption to resist the devious schemes of the current political dispensation. As a young officer, he displayed impeccable commitment and a strain of being proactively secular. Today, he has compromised on his ideals and is echoing the rhetoric of the ruling party, he said.

I think she is living in a well and doesn’t know what happened and is happening all over the world – starting from the insults Vivekananda faced to the ban on yoga by UK churches and in Czech schools..

Fact is when the religions are corporatized, they fight for market share (like harvesting souls) and spirituality disappears!!

According to Mr. Sriram Reddy, former MLA and leader of Communist Party of India (Marxist): ” Militant pontiffs with political affiliations are a drain on the moral beliefs of the practitioners of any religion”. I am sure he will include folks like Cedric Prakash, Valson Thampu, Imam Bhukhari & Co. and last, but not the least, the Chief Pontiff himself who wants to harvest souls in all the alien lands.

There were reports recently that the Chinese govt. banned Ramzan activities by public servants in some provinces, fearing support to violent Muslim separatists. Wonder what our comrades will say.

Every home for a hindu, is a temple and no invader could wipe out all the homes – it cannot be done even for the next thousand years –

Pretty good and thought provoking especially in this day and age…. Am I a Hindu?
Four years ago, I was flying from JFK, NY airport to SFO to attend a meeting at Monterey, CA.
An American girl was sitting on the right side, near window seat.
It indeed was a long journey – it would take nearly seven hours!

I was surprised to see the young girl reading a Bible – unusual of young Americans! (Later I came to know that September 11 has changed the mind-set of lot of US citizens. They suddenly turned religious, it seemed.)
After some time she smiled and we had few acquaintances talk. I told her that I am from India.

Then suddenly the girl asked: ‘What’s your faith?’
‘What?’ I didn’t understand the question.
‘I mean, what’s your religion? Are you a Christian? Or a Muslim?’
‘No!’ I replied, ‘I am neither Christian nor Muslim’.
Apparently she appeared shocked to listen to that.
‘Then who are you…?’
‘I am a Hindu’, I said.
She looked at me as if she is seeing a caged animal.
She could not understand what I was talking about.

A common man in Europe or US know about Christianity and Islam, as they are the leading religions of the world today.

But a Hindu, what?
I explained to her – I am born to a Hindu father and Hindu mother. Therefore, I am a Hindu by birth.

‘Who is your prophet?’ she asked.
‘We don’t have a prophet,’ I replied.
‘What’s your Holy Book?’
‘We don’t have a single Holy Book, but we have hundreds and thousands of philosophical and sacred scriptures,’ I replied.
‘Oh, come on…at least tell me who is your God?’
‘What do you mean by that?’

‘Like we have Yahweh and Muslims have Allah – don’t you have a God?’
I thought for a moment. Muslims and Christians believe one God (Male God) who created the world and takes an interest in the humans who inhabit it. Her mind is conditioned with that kind of belief.

According to her (or anybody who doesn’t know about Hinduism), a religion need to have one Prophet, one Holy book and one God. The mind is so conditioned and rigidly narrowed down to such a notion that anything else is not acceptable. I understood her perception and concept about faith. You can’t compare Hinduism with any of the present leading religions where you have to believe in one concept of god.

I tried to explain to her: ‘You can believe in one god and he can be a Hindu. You may believe in multiple deities and still you can be a Hindu. What’s more – you may not believe in god at all, still you can be a Hindu. An atheist can also be a Hindu.’
This sounded very crazy to her.

She couldn’t imagine a religion so unorganized, still surviving for thousands of years, even after onslaught from foreign forces.

‘I don’t understand…but it seems very interesting. Are you religious?’
What can I tell to this American girl?

I said: ‘I do not go to temple regularly. I do not make any regular rituals. I have learned some of the rituals in my younger days. I still enjoy doing it sometimes.’
‘Enjoy? Are you not afraid of God?’

‘God is a friend. No- I am not afraid of God. Nobody has made any compulsions on me to perform these rituals regularly.’

She thought for a while and then asked: ‘Have you ever thought of converting to any other religion?’

‘Why should I? Even if I challenge some of the rituals and faith in Hinduism, nobody can convert me from Hinduism. Because, being a Hindu allows me to think independently and objectively, without conditioning… I remain as a Hindu never by force, but choice.’ I told her that Hinduism is not a religion, but a set of beliefs and practices. It is not a religion like Christianity or Islam because it is not founded by any one person or does not have an organized controlling body like the Church or the Order, I added. There is no institution or authority.
‘So, you don’t believe in God?’ she wanted everything in black and white.

‘I didn’t say that. I do not discard the divine reality. Our scripture, or Sruthis or Smrithis – Vedas and Upanishads or the Geeta – say God might be there or he might not be there. But we pray to that supreme abstract authority (Para Brahma) that is the creator of this universe.’

‘Why can’t you believe in one personal God?’

‘We have a concept – abstract – not a personal god. The concept or notion of a personal God, hiding behind the clouds of secrecy, telling us irrational stories through few men whom he sends as messengers, demanding us to worship him or punish us, does not make sense. I don’t think that God is as silly as an autocratic emperor who wants others to respect him or fear him.’ I told her that such notions are just fancies of less educated human imagination and fallacies, adding that generally ethnic religious practitioners in Hinduism believe in personal gods. The entry level Hinduism has over-whelming superstitions too. The philosophical side of Hinduism negates all superstitions.

‘Good that you agree God might exist. You told that you pray. What is your prayer then?’
‘Loka Samastha Sukino Bhavantu. Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti,’
‘Funny,’ she laughed, ‘What does it mean?’

‘May all the beings in all the worlds be happy. Om Peace, Peace, Peace.’
‘Hmm…very interesting. I want to learn more about this religion. It is so democratic, broad-minded and free…’ she exclaimed.

‘The fact is Hinduism is a religion of the individual, for the individual and by the individual with its roots in the Vedas and the Bhagavad-Gita. It is all about an individual approaching a personal God in an individual way according to his temperament and inner evolution – it is as simple as that.’

‘How does anybody convert to Hinduism?’

‘Nobody can convert you to Hinduism, because it is not a religion, but a set of beliefs and practices. Everything is acceptable in Hinduism because there is no single authority or organization either to accept it or to reject it or to oppose it on behalf of Hinduism.’
I told her – if you look for meaning in life, don’t look for it in religions; don’t go from one cult to another or from one guru to the next.

For a real seeker, I told her, Bible itself gives guidelines when it says ‘Kingdom of God is within you.’ I reminded her of Christ’s teaching about the love that we have for each other. That is where you can find the meaning of life.

Loving each and every creation of the God is absolute and real. ‘Isavasyam idam sarvam’ Isam (the God) is present (inhabits) here everywhere – nothing exists separate from the God, because God is present everywhere. Respect every living being and non-living things as God. That’s what Hinduism teaches you.

Hinduism is referred to as Sanathana Dharma, the eternal faith. It is based on the practice of Dharma, the code of life. The most important aspect of Hinduism is being truthful to oneself. Hinduism has no monopoly on ideas. It is open to all. Hindus believe in one God (not a personal one) expressed in different forms. For them, God is timeless and formless entity.
Ancestors of today’s Hindus believe in eternal truths and cosmic laws and these truths are opened to anyone who seeks them. But there is a section of Hindus who are either superstitious or turned fanatic to make this an organized religion like others. The British coin the word ‘Hindu’ and considered it as a religion.

I said: ‘Religions have become an MLM (multi-level-marketing) industry that has been trying to expand the market share by conversion. The biggest business in today’s world is Spirituality. Hinduism is no exception…’

I am a Hindu because it doesn’t condition my mind with any faith system.

No one follows these astamatas in Tulunadu other than racist GSBs and Puli Khoddel Brahmins. These astamatas are as foreign to us as churches. Worship places are for worship and the priests of such places, be it Pejawar seer or christians should not indulge in politics. The communal disturbances wreck common man’s life and are alien to us. Let us live in peace

They tried to convert me!
By Richard Crasta, USA [ Published Date: September 25, 2008 ]

Why in the 21st Century “Conversion” is an Absurdity

After the attacks on Mangalore’s Christian churches (and others in Karnataka), the leaders have (finally) spoken, rightly condemning the Hindutva/Bajrang Dal organizations and the complicit administration, and praising the peace-loving nature and charitable activities and institutions of the Indian Christian community.

What this Ordinary and Undistinguished Homo Sapiens has to contribute is a slightly different perspective: on conversions, and on what makes a Hindu or Christian a real Hindu or Christian.

Truly, I have been the victim of conversion attempts on more than a few occasions by Christians, and once by the Hare Krishnas of Boston, run by Euro-Americans. Indeed, next to Osama Bin Laden and ex-Commie Vladimir Putin, I am considered the most convertible heathen in the world by a very close relative of mine, a Christian who I would rather not name (for his health as well as mine). Seriously, though I am a Christian by birth, a semi-agnostic by conviction (or more precisely, the lack of strong religious conviction), and a Mangalorean Catholic by community and identity-meaning, that’s what the Hindus and Christians around me in India would call me, or what I would call myself, when probed about my social identity, whether or not I regularly go to Church (and I don’t) – still, this close relative and his friends have tried to convert me to his brand of evangelical, American-influenced (Sarah Palin kind of American), rather intolerant Christianity. His group, or people like him, used to be called “Charismatics” a decade or two ago, but they have recently been “radicalized” or made more “fundamentalist” in their beliefs (but who comprise only a small section of the diverse body of Indian Christians).

So black and white is this close relative’s view of the world that he once called me the devil (it’s nice to have some distinction!), and at another time called my writings Satanic (though luckily, these writings were prosaic, not verses). Perhaps my novel “The Revised Kama Sutra” did anger some Christians (most of whom had not read the book), as indeed it gave other Christians, Hindus, and heathens like me joy, because I try in my writings to tell my truth as bravely and straight as I can, and believe that if we all speak our truths and never resort to violence, we would all be better off (Gautama Buddha, after all, was once a Hindu who decided to rebel against his religion and speak his truth).

Converting me, then, would be a major success in this close relative’s book: he would earn a reserved Balcony Seat in Heaven for that. And yet, even if had been more diplomatic and erudite and glibly persuasive, he has about as much chance of converting me as he has of converting the Sultan of Swat.

Because, as they say, you can take a horse to the water, but you cannot make him drink it. You can’t “convert” people against their will, which is why the Spaniards and the Portuguese decimated most of the Indian natives of South America, realizing that any “conversion,” when it occurred, was only cosmetic, a temporary yielding to superior firepower or the force of circumstances, which were then overwhelming. The moment the Spaniards turned their backs, most of the Indians went back to being who they really were: wild, free, and happy.

Now, even though Mangalore has been a historically tolerant town in which often, an autorickshaw or taxi would simultaneously sport Hindu, Christian and Muslim religious images or symbols, I don’t doubt that some or most Hindus would be outraged by the doctrinaire assertions of some of the evangelically inclined Christian fringe. I myself am often outraged, flabbergasted, rendered speechless and sometimes burst out laughing. Sometimes, I try to counter with sane arguments about why they can’t possibly know The Truth any better than I or anyone else can, and that merely because something is printed or contained in some book doesn’t make it true (I should know: I write fiction sometimes, indeed most of the time). That many of these people don’t have a broad-based education and haven’t read widely doesn’t help matters, but only makes them louder. …how about simply doing good for goodness’ sake, expecting no reward or gratitude….

And then, finally, I realize that laughter is the wisest choice, the sanest and healthiest choice. Laughter, and shutting your ears – and after a while, if the noise doesn’t stop, and you can’t laugh anymore, moving to a place where you can have peace, sane conversation, nature, beauty, and more laughter.

For me, most arguments between adherents of two different fundamentalist religious groups are absurd -like two people arguing about whether the teacup and saucer orbiting the sun between Jupiter and Saturn is of a blue or a green color. Neither of them, of course, having personally seen the said teacup and saucer.

But I’ll tell you why my close relative and most fundamentalist Christians have zero chance of converting me, the same chance as a fundamentalist Hindu or Muslim (whereas Buddhists, who don’t have fundamentalists among their number, might stand a marginally better chance).

Because to me, religion is not what you say it is. It’s what you do. It’s who you are as a human being. For example, if you try to convert me to Christianity, whose essence is love, charity, and compassion, and if you have not a charitable or loving bone in your body, it is as if you have disproved your own arguments.

A few months back, I was in desperate financial circumstances, and even lacked money for some essential medical care. But none of the ultra-religious members of my family came to my rescue, especially not my close relative, who had only a few months earlier been throwing money at the members and “pastors” of his fundamentalist sect. It was partly by accident that I ran into a sane Christian, meaning one level-headed, compassionate, intelligent, accomplished, and fair-minded Christian, who came to my rescue, approaching another similar Christian of means.

That’s comforting and inspiring, that a value such as Christian charity, which is responsible for running orphanages and hospitals for the poor, is sometimes also to be found in a few individual Christians–though a very small fraction of those who call themselves Christian. And if either of these two persons were to approach me and ask me to put up a statue of Jesus or Mary in my apartment, I would gladly do so, out of respect for them, for their true charitableness. And I know they wouldn’t demand that I pray to this statue, because they know that true love and true charity are unconditional. They are enlightened Christians; whereas the ones who preach and spout a virulent form of religion without practicing its fundamental ethical teachings are unenlightened boors.

Just because someone says they belong to this or that religion, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are – to me, the label is meaningless, except for giving me some understanding of their background. Often, the loudest Christians are the most un-Christian people on earth (George Bush, for example), and no religion seems much good to me unless it remarkably improves the character, charitableness, and benevolence of spirit of the persons following it.

Therefore, arguments or brazen attempts to convert are useless, are doomed to failure. Much better that you so impress me by your character and your inspiring thoughts and actions that I ask you what is it that you believe in that makes you such a fine human being. At that point, if I am hugely impressed, I may ask for more information, and if it seems to make sense to my life and to my personality, I may ask to join your religion, without your having made a single attempt to convert me.

But most of us, in our everyday lives-and I, very much so-lag way behind our highest ideals, and our religion will remain largely talk, and the repetition of the words, mantras, and doctrines we have been taught by parents and teachers. Religion is just the dress we wear, on Sundays or when visiting the temple. But so long as people stick to argument or better, to discussions with civilized rules, courtesy, and time limits, that’s fine with me.

Violence has absolutely no place in such a discussion, however. Thus the Bajrang Dal or whoever attacked churches and terrorized innocent Christians defeated their own argument, proving by their irreligious, unholy behavior that they are not worthy of being members of any religion, that any worthwhile and true religion would immediately disown them and their actions.

No doubt ignorance and politics played a part in what happened: the ignorance of the mob, which could not distinguish between two groups of people so different in character, temperament, and disposition, it would be as if someone were unable to distinguish between a Mafia thug and the Catholic cardinal of New York. And the politics of the few who have a stake in stoking anger and violence. And yet, as Christianity, like Buddhism, is a religion of compassion, this mob, and even harmless but deluded evangelical zealots, deserve some compassion as victims in turn-victims of a kind of brainwashing that they were not adequately equipped to resist, partly because our lowest common denominator education, which is a kind of brainwashing in itself, doesn’t provide us the tools to resist brainwashing.

In this century, conversion by physical force is highly improbable except in a theocratic and fascist state, and any other kind of conversion-meaning, as an active, transitive verb, one person changing the religion of another person–is a logical absurdity. In other words, it is ultimately the horse’s decision whether or not to drink the water being offered, no matter what the inducements or the persuasive means used.

In earlier centuries, conversions were often achieved by force; and when absolute monarchs changed their religion, the subjects often followed, either out of respect for the monarch or out of some feeling of compulsion, real or imaginary. Buddhism gained its initial following from Hindu converts; later on, most Indian Buddhists “re-converted” to Hinduism, while Buddhism spread to vast areas of Asia. Today, at least a few million Westerners follow some form of Hinduism or the other, whether or not they deem it as conversion; rare is the guru who shuts his door to such “converts.”

In present times, some people convert themselves for personal advantage or as a practical consideration. For example, a Dutch man told me he “officially” had converted to Islam so he could marry his Muslim Indonesian girl friend. It was required by Indonesian law, and though he, like most Europeans today, was an agnostic/atheist, he did it simply as a practical matter, presenting himself at a mosque one day, getting “converted”, and never returning to the mosque again. Also, if a woman or a man decides to get converted to the spouse’s religion to overcome objections to the marriage by in-laws, that is also a practical recourse often by people who don’t really mean it. It is not true conversion, and yet, in the modern age, we need to respect everyone’s freedom to be any religion they choose; there is nothing we can do about this, no more than we can ban someone from wearing blue shirts or ban someone from falling in love with the adherent of a different religion.

All of which suggests that were someone to choose to change their religion, in a country like India, in which no one today can physically force others to change their religion, the circumstances must be either ones of self-interest (and everyone has the democratic right to pursue that within legal limits), or they must be so extraordinarily spiritual and personal that we need to respect the individual’s democratic right and freedom to follow any form of religious belief (or unbelief) that they choose.

A Hindu friend had an even more advanced idea. He said, “Who is anyone to tell me that Jesus is not mine, or that Buddha is not mine? I am heir to all that is good in human history. Nobody owns Jesus or Buddha. Also, why should my religious identity be so important? I have so many other identities, and it is more important to me that I am a writer, a teacher, and a good father, than that I am a Hindu.” He further said, “If my God is so great, then how can I possibly make him greater by having one or a hundred more persons follow him? Is he so insecure that he needs one more human being to praise Him? Therefore, conversion is absurd.” In other words, conversion is a non-issue for any enlightened person, because what someone else chooses to believe is entirely their decision. And the Dalai Lama regularly advises Westerners not to convert to Buddhism, telling them there is no need, that you can be a good human being in any religion.

This, to me, is enlightened thinking-sadly, the minority thinking.

So I say to my Hindu brothers: Don’t you realize how oxymoronic the phrase ‘Hindu fascists’ sounds? You can only be a Hindu or a fascist, not both. The Hinduism I admire is the Hinduism of Namaste (“Greetings to the god in you!”) and Tat twam asi (That thou art), not the Hinduism of khaki shorts and dandas which some of your misguided brethren seem to follow. Why not laugh at the subject of conversions, as I did, both during the Hare Krishna conversion attempt (when I was a poor student who wished to enjoy their delicious Indian vegetarian feasts, but not their feast of eardrum-splitting chanting) and that of the evangelical Christians? After all, religion is a personal affair, and to worry ourselves about which God others choose to pray to when we can barely manage our own lives: it is absurd and unnecessary. But educating your brothers, teaching them, with a broad-based education, how to think for themselves, rather than just equipping them to make money, and showing them the greatness of your religion through the example of your lives: that would be the noblest and most dignified and democratic way to stop self-conversions.

To my Christian brothers, I say (lacking any credentials whatsoever, yet knowing that wisdom can sometimes come from the mouths of fools): how about simply doing good for goodness’ sake, expecting no reward or gratitude, respecting everyone simply because they are children of God by virtue of being human? It would be the best way to practice our religion. There would be no conflict. And if you can, at least some of you, why not learn to admire the good in other religions, perhaps even telling your children stories from the Hindu epics, and the best ideas from Hindu philosophy?

For if religious groups, including fundamentalist groups, continue to mistrust, hate, and war with each other as they are doing now, then future generations will probably abandon organized, formal religion altogether, as is happening in Europe, where a few centuries back wars and genocide were committed in the name of religion, and where, in France and England for example, Sunday church attendance hovers around the five percent mark.

Which, from the point of view of my agnostic friends (and I must not forget them), would probably be the best thing for peace on earth.

dude TM, airope is way too far. Within India itself, it was the inquisition in goa that gave the CC the fundamental and basic foothold from which today it pretends to be holier than everybody else.

Sir DPS Sir, as that doode who keDasko-ed his tale over your logic, i ask, what is the big deal in a local contributing to local culture? are you telling me, that CC is an alien entity that has kindly, and due to ‘largesse of its heart’ patronized the local culture by indulging in its grammar and vocabulary? and in appreciation of this patronization, am i expected to pay a pound of my flesh?

can you elaborate on the contribution to kannada and local culture due to the sundry Bishop Cottons, Santa Josephas, and other worthies in Bnagalore. I am not asking for Shivarama Karantha/Bendre class of kannada writers with their universal sensitivities. simple statistics: how many 1st/IInd language kannada graduates from these schools. how many kannada dramas/songs/bhaava geethes etc feature in the programs of these schools and so on. simple measurable quantities. i am not asking for nuanced metrics. simple stuff only.

PTL,
i read your critique about Hinduism looking fairer from far. on the contrary, it is the case of having watched libertanism from closer quarters. All the nice-nice theories that you hear is based on the comforts afforded exclusively by certain nuanced and practically homogeneous culture that was achieved a long time ago. once a westphalian state was achieved then and only then all sorts of theoretical worms were allowed to creep out. even then, not in any sphere of western political or even intellectual world will anybody who even is rumored to have even paid tributes as a way of a chadar at dargah would ever be even eligible for public office. even in middle east, this would not be possible of anybody who even accepts that an aarathi is a legitimate form of sajda.

but us hindus are supposed to be outliers to all human experience and make all sorts of extra human sacrifices. all sorts of weight of intellectual theory hindus are supposed to bear is it?

funny thing is, we are being burdened to live up to standards to which there for which there neither is nor ever was any commmunity that practically lived up to.

some extra human stuff only we are expected to live upto. yaen maaye?!!

you can take any field of human endeavour, analysis(mostly post facto) is linear. but living upto those ideals is never linear.

but us hindus are supposed to be outliers to all human experience and make all sorts of extra human sacrifices and live upto all sorts of extra human standars is it? we must be extra pliable, to be expected to bear all sorts of intellectual theory and its weight is it?

funny thing is, we are being burdened to live up to standards for which there neither is nor ever was any commmunity that practically lived up to. intha doDDa burDen-nu paapa basavaNNana makkaLigyaake? average people who eat our daily mosrsel of raagi and save the beLe for a bassaaru that makes our saaru and playa only we are. why so much burden on us? intha extra – uber theoretical burden yaake namma mele? naaven amrutha kuDeethiva? uppu khaara tinno jana naavu.

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Conversion is in reality a ” CON ” JOB and the version about people changing belief based on some inner voice or enlightenment is all bakwas.

95 % of the converts are from the lowest strata of society and it is fairly clear that inducements play a major role.In the indian context , Converts are not treated as Human beings by the Original Christians and they have seperate cemetry for these converts.None of the so called leaders like the Archbishop, would even dare to visit the home and have a meal with the converts.Untouchability at its best.

Christians have waged war’s against the Muslim world time and again. Christians talk about the Carpenter preaching the world, but they dont seem to know the Carpenter any longer. They insist on carpet bombing the innocent muslims in Afghanistan,IRAQ,IRAN,VIETNAM,PALESTINE,NORTH KOREA..

George Bush talks about battle of civilizations. Christian’s Conspiracy is to surreptiously involve in conversion of innocent natives in third world. While the developed world have ignored christianity as the failed faith.

2pm on Saturday the 27th, September, 2008– another Bomb blast in Delhi the National capital. Jai bolo “Musalman ki Jai”.
Do we really want the Nuke deal at any cost, or, Eliminate terrorism at any cost! Which comes first. What is the priority?Our PM has to decide once he comes back from his Honeymoon trip to USA where he has gone to meet his Boy friend. ‘He loves Mr.Bush’!!

I’m surprised that you consider your community as natives. If they were, they wouldn’t have started a bombing campaign all over India. What is your contribution towards the development of modern India. Other than criminality, breeding like rats with 4 wives, creating communal tensions, always crying about discrimination, what have you to offer. Get a life and come to reality. Unless you improve your ways and join the main stream, you will be always scorned upon

—

As you have suggested, christian are bent upon annihilating Muslims by carpet bombing etc, for they have recognized that Islam is a cancer on society and require it to be removed surgically, and I really don’t blame them. Show me one Islamic tolerant country towards other religions.

Irrespective of what the propaganda, I have great respect towards the christian institutes without which I would have been a person like you, a communal person without character

—

Since when have VIETNAM & NORTH KOREA have become Islamic countries where innocent muslims live

1) Insecurity is basic reason for all conversions and protest against it.
2) Christians are cunning,they identify most backward area,go there help them and get them converted.
3) Bajranga dala and VHP do not know this art and still believe in violence means to stop conversion.
3) Most of convertese are from backward caste.No brahmi,gowda or lingayat get converted in majority of cases
4) But converted Christians are not treated well in either christian communities
5) Bajranga dala is suported by BJP to attack such churches in large scale

Christians have destroyed all the religions existing in Europe. Any other religions other than Christianity is known as Pagan by Christians. Vikings flourished in Europe, however during the violent conquest of Christianity they perished.

Muslims dont indulge in rampant conversion like the willy Christians. The message of Allah is available to everyone. Any individual if inspired can join but we dont indulge in twisted tongue preaching of violence and non violence.

Dont day dream your dictionary is applicable to us. During the Mughal rule in India, majority Hindus and Muslims have lived very peacefully. It is the Christian rulers who preached hatred and partitioned this great Country on the basis of Religion. Else our borders would have been upto Persia in West to Taiwan in East. Now Christians have been involved in insurgency in Nagaland. Can you reply to this my dear Mallapottel ? Your conscience will not forbid you from answering if you really believe in Carpenter.

One communal party, the Muslim League, was responsible for the partition of India. The provocative role of another group of communal outfits, the Hindu supremacist Sangh Parivar led by the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS) and its fraternal organisations like the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and the Bajrang Dal, has been alienating the minorities as never before.
There is little doubt that the Babri Masjid demolition in 1992 by a mob of Hindu fanatics and the Gujarat riots of 2002 have spawned an indigenous brand of terrorism involving a section, though a small one, of Indian Muslims. The latter comprise 13 per cent of the country’s population, numbering 140 million out of India’s total of one billion people – the third largest Muslim population in any country after Indonesia and Pakistan.
Even if the notorious Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) of Pakistan as well as terrorist organisations such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed based in Pakistan have been providing arms, money, shelter and guidance to the misguided minority of Indian Muslims, it is the latter who are now apparently acting as the foot soldiers of terrorism in India in addition to the mercenaries from abroad.
What has evidently made this section take to jehad in India is apparently the belief that the virulent anti-minority groups under the Parivar have been able to firmly establish themselves in Indian politics. As such, the minorities are now virtually at the mercy of these rabid elements, as the Gujarat riots earlier and the recent burning of churches in states where the BJP is in power show.
It is necessary to remember that the minorities in India are made of the Muslims, the largest group, Christians, Sikhs and Zoroastrians or Parsis. Of them, the Muslims and Christians were marked out as “Internal Enemies Nos 1 and 2” by M.S.Golwalkar, a former RSS chief, in the 1960s.
Although the RSS and the Jana Sangh-BJP have long been a part of the social and political scene, they were essentially marginal forces till the late 1980s. Three developments around that period enabled these anti-minority outfits to move to the centre stage. One was the Congress’s decline, another was the failure of the Left to grow beyond its bases in West Bengal, Kerala and Tripura, and the third was the alliances – direct and indirect – which former Congressmen like V.P. Singh, and also the Left, formed with the Jana Sangh-BJP to keep the Congress out of power.
Incidentally, a similar anti-Congress tie-up is now again evident between the Left and the BJP on issues such as the nuclear deal, inflation and so on.
The demolition of the Babri Masjid was the first fallout of the new self-confidence as well as influence which the BJP gained from its association with the V.P. Singh government at the centre in 1989-90.
It was an unprecedented incident since places of worship had never before been targeted for destruction by any political group. For the BJP and the Parivar, it provided a kind of psychological breakthrough for, earlier, they were uncertain how the people would react to such an act of sacrilege.
But once they realised that they didn’t have to pay too heavy a political price, they lost any inhibitions about sparing a house of God, as the recent attacks on churches from Orissa to Karnataka to Madhya Pradesh to Kerala by the saffron activists show. These acts of violence go against the grain of India’s multicultural polity underlining respect for all communities, not to mention the Constitution, which is based on the rule of law and fundamental, including minority, rights.
It wasn’t only the Babri Masjid demolition which told the Muslims that a dangerously divisive force had appeared with little respect for law and order or for the norms of civilised conduct. The Gujarat riots were another traumatic reminder of what could happen if such a force reached the corridors of power. Not surprisingly, the VHP and the Bajrang Dal ran amok in Gujarat while the police looked the other way. It is now the turn of the Christians in Orissa, Karnataka and Madhya Pradesh to discover the same bitter truth.
The grouse against the Christians is that they are forcibly converting people into their faith, although the census figures show a drop in the number of Christians in India from 2.5 to 2.3 per cent.
The inevitable consequence of loss of faith in fair governance because of the BJP’s political clout was the radicalisation of the Muslim youth. Once the routes of legal redress are closed, terrorism casts its fatal spell on the helpless victims. In Gujarat, the failure of the police to protect the minorities was compounded by the subversion of the judicial process by Chief Minister Narendra Modi’s administration, which compelled the Supreme Court to transfer some of the cases to states outside Gujarat since no justice was possible under the BJP government.
It is possible that the example of Islamic terrorism in the Middle East and elsewhere had primed the misguided among the Indian Muslim youths for similar acts in India. However, but for the vicious anti-minority stance of the Hindutva camp, it is unlikely that they would have adopted terrorist tactics. As is known, the Indian Muslims had taken little interest in the Kashmiri insurgency even if Kashmir was mentioned in the same breath with Palestine, Bosnia and Chechnya by the jehadi groups abroad to enlist recruits.
As the attacks on the churches show, a part of the Parivar’s game plan is to exacerbate communal tension and use any retaliatory action by the minorities as a pretext to take the campaign to a more provocative level. The apparent belief is that this is a sure fire way for the BJP to garner votes by consolidating its base of support among the Hindus.
It is obvious that these confrontational tactics of the saffron lobby have succeeded in driving a section of the Muslims towards terrorism. Now, apprehension has been expressed about the Christian youth, too, taking to violence if there is no let-up in the attacks on the churches.

FYI, I am a born/non practicing Hindu. I consider religion as ones personal business and no one should interfere in it. Having said that, I do not disguise my disgust towards certain communities like yours, not for your religious beliefs but for your hate mongering attitudes/unhygienic way of life/criminality/gangsterism/high rate of human reproduction etc etc .. I can go on and on.

Don’t bask on Mughal rule and their achievements for they were as tyrannical as British.At least British did not convert anyone to Christianity by pointing a gun at their head, like the brigand Tipu Sultan/some muslim leaders did. Please note : Mohd Ali Jinna, founder of Muslim League ,was responsible for partition and he wasn’t a christian.

The struggle in Nagaland has nothing to do with religion. The Nagas are of Mongolian race and consider Indians are foreigners, as we considered British.

By the way, who is this ‘Carpenter’ you are referring to. If you are referring to Vishwakarma Brahmins, I am not one of them.

but……… we’re way too late. first of all Babri masjith ought not be there! I wonder how the names came.. Gaziabad, Aurangabad, Hyderad, Nizamudhin, Ahmedabad, Alahabad, Sahibabad, Begampet, Faizabad (in record Ayodya!), Secunderabad. Minorities…my foot. They’ve got more than they deserved and they’re paying back every saturday! Mass conversions started in the era of Aurangazeb and Portuguese. British fuelled it. now it’s time to retaliate. Arise.. Awake..

Some days back I had made a comment in on of the posts about the role of Muslim baiting on the net by non-Muslim Indians and whether that has played any role in alienating the educated Muslims and in turn converting them into terrorists. Today I happened to read an article by a Muslim who is working as Sr. copy ed at NDTV. This what he wrote caught my attention:

“”At work, while moderating comments on many stories on the incident and its aftermath it was difficult to ignore the bombardment of nasty comments against Muslims. Almost 95 per cent of them demonised Muslims and a major chunk of the surfers suggested that Muslims be thrown out of India. The ground beneath my feet shook. I kept working, but nothing registered. I wanted to cry. I felt like a helpless alien in my own country. I had never thought of myself as being part of anything but the mainstream — the very premise of that was crumbling in front of me.””

So this is what we the educated Indians – majority being Hindu upper castes – with access to the Internet have become – Fascists.
So should we be proud or ashamed of being fascists? I hope readers of Churumuri have an answer.

It is easy to quote Kittel and Rice for their extraordinary contributions . But i advice likes URN also to read Mr.M.A.Sreenivasan’s book-Of the Raj, Maharajas and Me. there is a detailed account of the violence which erupted when St. Philomena Church was being built ! Mind you it was not during Yeddy’s rule but during the Rama Rajya of Nalvadi Krishna Raja Wadiyar aided by Diwan Mirza Ismail ! Violence was not at the behest of fanatic Hindu’s but by the Muslims of Mandi Mohalla !

Freedom of belief, no matter how outrageous, is fundamental to a free society. I’m no Christian. Christianity, like all other religions, is a concoction to keep the clergy in business. Selling hope is a lucrative enterprise: eternal life, endless biryani in heaven, virgins for martyrdom , Nirvana, Resurrection, Moksha, call it what you will , are all poppycock stories for miserable masses. To paraphrase a wise old man, The whores are selling something more substantial than the false promises and empty hopes of the religious freaks!

However, The Christians have every right to spread their beliefs by any means that are legal, even inducement. The Hindu right wing thugs should go out and counter the missionary marketing techniques if they are so paranoid over diminishing numbers of their flock. Let them go build schools, seminaries, hospitals and other inducements to keep their numbers. This, as opposed to the mindless violence and killing of innocents.

Democracy is a marketplace for ideas. Everybody has the right to package and market their ideas, but not through violence and intimidation. Shame on fundamentalists of all colors!! May they all stew in hell for eternity!!

If only the stridency of the self-proclaimed secularists subsides, would peace return to society. These pseudos hardly need a provocation to get on the horn to condemn everything that is Hindu. One wonders what freebies are in it for these publicity hogs. If the unfair criticism of Hindus does not subside, someday, there will be groundswell of Hindu resentment resulting in another Ayodyha-like disaster.

In some respects you too seem to be as sweeping as the author of the original post is. Please understand that whether someone marries one woman or many women does not make difference to the number of children produced by him. If anything, it will reduce the number and does not increase it. just because you have got a malla pottel (big te…….) does not mean that you will end up a dhrutarashtra!!!!

The Christians are well fed, so they convert by feeding, schooling and curing unfed, unschooled and uncured Hindus. The Muslims are themselves unfed, so their methods cannot be the same as the Christians’. They kill and terrorize.

Both these religions have nothing, not a single thing in them which can attract a Hindu to it without conscious and painful attempts of conversion. When you have nothing inside, you need to pull others to you using these dirty tactics.

The problem with the RSS and BJP is that they neither have the balls to come to absolute power and declare India as a Hindu state, nor have the wherewithal to feed, school and cure Hindus.

The Christians’ attack on Hindus is at the “physical level” of food, clothing and shelter; The Muslims’ attack on Hindus is at the “physical level” of terrorism and betrayal. When this is the case, the Hindu retaliation cannot and should not be at the “intellectual level”. Thorns should be removed using thorns, not roses.

BJP should come to absolute power at the center, declare India as a Hindu state like Nepal, ban all religious conversions other than to Hinduism as illegal.

We need some men with balls to make this happen. The question is – can BJP recruit them? There is no other hope for stopping terrorism and violence in this country.

If you look hard and long enough, you will find illustrious individuals in any community. Therefore, I find little connection between the names you mention and Karnataka’s putative reputation for tolerance. The rich and the illustrious are rarely touched by public outbursts of religious insanity.

In your legendary Karnataka, people of different castes live in houses side by side without ever taking part in a meal together. In your tolerant Karnataka, people who are all Hindus, do nothing when a book by a Hindu is banned. In your enlightened Karnataka, dasa saahithya is not sung or read by those who read the vachanakaras and vice versa.

Let’s praise the good women and for their work by all means without deluding ourselves that we are all a wonderful people.

We are an uneducated, underemployed mass willing to be used by sectarian politics and its practitioners at any time. In a sensible situation, religion is an adjunct to our lives, not the focus. It becomes the focus when there are countless people for whom there is no self-sufficiency through employment. Those who do get college degrees find them worthless because the degrees are either fraudulent or there is no market for the kind of knowledge the person possesses. Despite the claim that we are an agricultural people, fragmentation of land hardly makes it possible for a large number of land-dependent people to live comfortably. In short, there isn’t enough to do. Too many people, too few jobs, and too little education.

There is not one single problem in Karnataka or India the solution to which will end our misery. There is a nexus of problems. Every politician, religious or secular, puts those problems to good use.

There is enough sentimentality about ourselves in us, but not the toughness to examine ourselves and hold ourselves responsible for our own misdeeds.

The eminent persons mentioned in this article are respected because of their contributions to the society, the state and the country. The author seems to be bent upon making us aware of their religion. DPS should have made his point directly without resorting to such a lengthy article.

If all of you guys are serious about what you say, VOTE in the next elections to restore Hindu pride. VOTE and convince everyone you know to VOTE. That’s the only way we can get rid of this garbage once and for all.

Not barely enough. We should also re-Hinduise our brothers and sisters in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka who once belonged to the fold but were terrorized or fed into the proselytising religions. The rest of the nations follow suit, confining Christianity and Judaism to Israel and Islam to the Middle East. Judaism should then attempt to reabsorb Christians and Muslims into its True Way.

The program will require the annihilation of a few million people. But before that happens, since every little country is going to equip itself with nuclear destructivity, I don’t see that as a problem. The planet’s days are coming to an end anyway. “Yada, yadahi dharmasya, glanirbhavathi Bhaarathaaha, parithraanaya saadhuunam, vinashaayacha dushkurthaam, dharma samsthaapanaarthaaya sambhaavaami yuge, yuge.” No greater promise was ever made to the Hindu people. Thretha yuga is at hand.

Christists and con-‘seeded-by-brits-led-by-italian’-gress people are showing up to protest the ‘attack’ on conversion halls. Psuedo Hindus are vigorously churning out pompous writings, wailing about the end of tolerance by ‘oh-so-nice’ Kannadigas.

I really want to know: where were these folks when Demonical Christists were distributing fliers denigrating native deities and customs? Were where these folks when false propaganda using ‘caste’ and nourishment was (ab)used to ‘force-vert’ the impoverished populace thus denying their future generations their heritage?

Are we to believe that they are in agreement with the practice of abusing native heritage?

Can anyone point me to one major Christist leader who has publicly denounced the tricks used by Demonicles? Can we expect the convents to close the schools protesting the practice of using hospitals and bore-well pumps to convert natives? When can we expect the nuns to stop asking the children questions such as ‘do you think the cow has soul?’ and focus just on ‘vidhya daana’ and not on harvesting souls?

50% of the population is starving. 50% of the population have no toilets and defecate on roadside in Bangalore/Mysore/Shimoga. Esteemed CM is busy in trying to become 21st century Rama & Krishna. All the time busy either with Nursamma or some astrologers/gurus. you guys are spitting venom in the name of religion

Do something productive that benifit the poor, instead of floating your wild theories

ABC wrote:
“If all of you guys are serious about what you say, VOTE in the next elections to restore Hindu pride. VOTE and convince everyone you know to VOTE. That’s the only way we can get rid of this garbage once and for all.”

Where was the Hindu pride when Islamist terrorists attacked the parliament? or where was it when terrorists were escorted to Kandahar and freed by they so called loh purush? or where was it when ppl convicted of waging war against the nation were freed by the loh purush on orders of Russia?? where was it when the loh purush was surprised by the Pakis and terrorists in Kargil? or where is it when Hindus swear allegiance to the USA by the thousands on a daily basis knowing very well that USA is doing all it can to destroy Hinduism in India by actively supporting conversions and insurgency in NE… where is the HINDU PRIDE of Hindu fascists?

“”BJP should come to absolute power at the center, declare India as a Hindu state like Nepal, ban all religious conversions other than to Hinduism as illegal.””

Nepal is no longer a Hindu Kingdom …now it is a “Maoist” republic..update ur history first…about BJP coming to absolute power ..well that will be only in ur dreams…coz Behenji is on a rampage decimating all opposition…

Attention. The guy with Azamgarh is not a muslim. Azamgarh is place from Uttar Pardesh where recent bomb blast terrorists lived and no sane muslim will ever use nick like this. This man must be No.7 RSS Cheddi trying to make Hindus angry on muslims by his writings

I wish to ask a few questions to our so called secular Hindus, politicians, intellectuals. Hope some of you will bother to reply.

1. Do Devegowda (or Danielgowda?), Kumaraswamy (or Kevin Swamy?), or Moily, or Kharge really know what methods are being adopted by the evangelical groups? If they are so concerned, why DON’T they CONVERT themselves?

2. Recently, there was a thought provoking article by Danny Periera, in Vijaya Karnataka (last week) – “Are the Indian Christians from Bethlehem?” – so far it has NOT attracted a SINGLE response from ANY intellectual or politician of Karnataka. Why? Because the article has so many facts that can not be countered by these breast beating politicians, award hunting journalists, and power hungry politicians. Should we the common citizens also not read, respond to a sensible article?

3. Dr. Chidananda Murthy, noted historian, published an article on the conversions in Davangere. A place which had no christians at the time of independence, has over 17000 converted christians. There are ‘Veerashaiva Christians’, vokkaligas and so on.

4. If Christianity is casteless, why is there a demand for Dalit Christians to be declared ST? How did we come to have Tribal Christians as a community? Are all of them treated on par by the mainstream Christians?

5. North East India is pre-dominantly a Christian region now. But this was NOT the case prior to independence of India. How was this change in demographics achieved, if not by conversion? What was the need for converting and destroying the rich culture of that region?

6. In today’s Vijay Karnataka (29th Sep), there is a report by a journalist on the methods adopted for conversion in Dalit areas. Some of youths who are converted are trained as pastors, paid some salary to convert others! They have been advised to STOP the conversion activities for a MONTH, until this controversy dies down.

7. How many of you really know what Hinduism is? Is it a religion with strict do’s/don’ts, etc? Each Caste/community in Hinduism is free to practice its own nuances. A Hindu does not necessarily have to go to a temple, perform puja, perform any of the rites which one may read in various shastras (not all are applicable to everyone). One can still be a Hindu. Is it really possible to be a Muslim, by not going to a Mosque? Is it possible for you to be a Christian without going to Church? In my view, in Hinduism, we have the most liberal framework for life. We also accept Change. Can you say the same about Islam or Christianity?

8. Can any evangelical group try converting a Muslim? Can you imagine the response they will get from the Muslim community? Do the Muslim Nations allow these evangelical groups to practice?

I posed a question to a Muslim gentleman – whether they wouldn’t mind converting to christianity, if they get convinced of the goodness of the otherside. He answered – once a Muslim, always a Muslim. The same man was arguing for freedom to preach to convert a few minutes ago on a forum. The point is that they can try and convert Hindus, whereas there was a clear NO when it was time to accept the same logic if they are at the receiving end.

In my view, FREEDOM of religion means freedom to practice, preach to your own followers. It does NOT give any right to CONVERT others. Accepting the design of conversion is a sure shot recipe for our own destruction. Let all religions bloom, let us live in harmony. No need to covert anyone. We are good as we are. If need be, we will improvise. Let others not try to throw mud on others by abusing their religion.

>>Muslim PM is a need of the hour of India. Muslims have always been kept in the sidelines as President or some small time minister.

We have had a SIKH,HINDU as PM. We must have a Muslim PM as we have the second largest Muslim population

>>

Mia Azamgarh,

Take a one way ticket to the “Land of the Pure”, where you rightly belong. There you will get a muslim PM, a muslim President and also a 100% muslim cabinet… all to your liking. Hope you have a good trip. :)

BTW are you a clone of the other poster Fazlur Rehman, because both of you are experts in playing the al-taqiyah game.

Mr DPS, you are just one among those ‘secularists’ who just want to be politically (in)correct. Please all, just because our religion has given us the freedom to do what we want to do. Sanatana Dharma and many varied things like this. So it looks like you have scored some political points for yourself.
Congratulations, hope you win at this game. Hope you hear from the nihilists academy.

@Maya,
I noticed your comment with some dismay. Instead of countering any of the points I wrote, you accuse me of lack of ‘mental maturity’. I don’t know if you were treating me as a mirror to look at yourself!

Before you accuse me of being communal, please let me know what makes you think that my statements are wrong. The 1st point was deliberately overstated to show the extent of crocodile tears being shed by our politicians, who want to encash Christian votes.

I am for respecting all religions. I only want to say Hinduism too needs the same respect and treatment that the minority religionists demand for their religion. If you like to read, read what Mahatma Gandhi, Bishop Desmond Tutu, Swamy Vivekananda said against conversions. I hope you will not accuse them of being communal.

Just because you want to be silent, soft does not mean that the other side remains so all the time. This very nature of Hindus of not bothering to check and correct what is happening in society is abused by the evangelical groups. If we do not worry when the neighbour has been attacked, let us remember that soon our turn will come and there will be no one to save.

India was partitioned in the name of religion, to provide a homeland (Pakistan) to Muslims. Ideally, this side of India, should have been called Hindustan (in fact, the Muslims call us that way, while Hindus, English media, etc love the anglicised word – India!). Had we put in some tight measures to address these issues pertaining to religion at the time of writing of the constitution, and had our Congress leaders (Gandhi / Nehru / Patel, etc) shown some foresight, we should have called ourselves a Hindu republic (of course with rights to all the native religions like Sikh, Buddhism, Jainism, etc., while allowing Christians and Islamists the right to practice their religion ‘peacefully’).

Last year, while on an overseas visit, I met with an Iranian who was living in an European country (to probably escape the persecution at home). We engaged in some small chat and he ended up asking me why does India still have a significant Muslim population while they had demanded and taken away a part of India as their homeland! When I said that India chose to remain a secular republic, he mentioned, this is going to hurt the natives.

I see some folks asking for a Muslim PM. Some ask for SC PM. Some for a Christian PM. We seem to have forgotten that we need a Hindustani PM. Somebody who has the interests of this country, not of any particular community, at heart. It is only in India, that development of community is perceived to be achieved if one person of that community gets to adorn a seat of power. If you notice, we have more rich leaders of the various backward / minority cells (take any political party for that matter) than the average members of the community itself. What does this prove! It is the development of these leaders rather than the community. The gullible public keeps chanting the mantra of power for a few of their community!!

Now, we have a come a long since 1947. There is no way we can turn back the events or change the current realities. We can only adjust and make corrections to the way we carry on so that life becomes more peaceful for ALL. What we really need is liberal approach to religion by ALL. Let religion be practiced in the four walls of the private space. It should, ideally, have no role influencing in politics & administration.

You ask Islam preaches peaceful co-existence. Ask this question where Islam is in power – what kind of peace the minority Hindus are enjoying in Bangladesh and Pakistan!

***

Your dream may be realised in about three hundred and fifty years – of having a Muslim PM. The way Muslim population is increasing and the Hindu population is declining, in about two hundred years, the Muslims will form the majority. In another one hundred and fifty years, India will become Dar ul Islam.

Barring Fakruddin Ali Ahmed, the Muslims who became the presidents were amongst the most highly respected persons in the Indian Public life. Who do you suggest as PM now? Ali Mian of Darul Uloom Deoband, or Abdulla Bukhari of Delhi Jamma Masjid?

You do nothing for the country, but you demand everything from it. Typical minority mentality of grievance mongering, and demanding from others!

Just happened to realise that Roger Binny never uttered a word in the Vidhaana Sabha during his entire tenure.
I would like to know more about what the Alvas and the Fernandeses have done for the well being of Karnataka. If you don’t mind, tell us what George F. has done for us since running Veerendra Pail’s failed campaign against Indira in Chikkamagaluru.

Since you obviously believe in naming names and the individual’s religion, tell us about at least one coastal Catholic cleric who has tried to get brown people like us their share of power at the Vatican.

I assoiciate a Catholic priest with notions of peace and forgiveness. What do you have to say about the Archibishop of Bengaluru raining maledictions on our vapid Yed, without so much as inviting him in and offering a glass of water? Does the Archbishop speak Kannada, by the way?

Not to say anything about the relative merits of this religion or that, India was a fairly peaceful, if difficult, union of people until the missionaries came and exacerbated the evil of casteism and Manuism by introducing conversion without being able to eradicate casteism. Don’t you see the utter risibility behind rubrics like “Dalit Christian,” “Brahmin Catholic?”

I know your oration has spawned hundreds of responses. I hope you have the humility to see that not all of them are related to your romanticised jeremiad.

The one who truly will deliver us from the curse of jaathi and dharma is not going to be a surrogate missionary or apologist for this or that sect.

=>btw this world recession we r staring at is good in one way ..lot of funding for all these groups will dry up….<=
You are sadly mistaken; vatican practically has unlimited funds to finance the soul harvesting efforts which includes anti-propaganda on the net. Ofcourse, the mohammedan groups just print the currency they want to fund whatever they want.

***

One passed thus: =>.. upper caste khakhi knickers ..<=

And betrayed the bigotry, hate and complete loss of minimal intelligence.

Sorry. The shaky markets will not dry up the supply. Western religious fanaticism is always well-financed. In hard times it is even easier to buy the poor with a few meals and promise of joy in this world and salvation in the other.

AG–

True, the missionaries indeed think that we are kappegalu, incapable of resisting their viles. You are right that abolishing casteism would not have been to their advantage.

Anonymous: The ‘Writer and Thinker’ Dr. NS Rajaram’s (Doctorate in Mathematics) view on Dalitas can be found out by directly communicating to him; let me know if you have hard time finding out his email address. I bet his views will not differ from another ‘non-Dalit’ writer and thinker Swamy Vivekananda himself.

By the way, since we are on the subject, contact Mangalooru Bishop and find out his views on Dalit Christians; contact Imam bhikhari and find out his views on Shia and Sunni mohammedans; contact Sunni mullah in Lahore and find out what he thinks about Ahmediays and Sindis. The last one is especially important since Ahmediyas and Sindis do not seem to appreciate the ‘land-of-pure’ concept very much.

Anonymous:
=>But no one else is posting any notices of harangues against other religions.definitely talk to the Bishops and Imams when they make a call about aggression of others.Or is it a some kind of secret meeting open only to select people?<=
You are clearly trying to provoke with nonsensical questions, but not provoking the right space; focus on the topic.

***
naveen: same goes to you; I am not interested questions pointed at me just to poke me; of course, if that gives you pleasure, enjoy yourself.

Its Strange isn’t it the poeple who hate christians, worried about conversion don’t mind writing comments in English,
Using Firefox/IE,
on Windows/Linux/Mac operating systems,
working on christian based projects,
wearing western clothes,
i believe the whole lot of these are western/christian ideas,
we Indians are a hypocritical bunch aren’t we!!

Hypocritical:
you clearly are confused. But to take your opinion further-

– English as a language has taken inputs from all over the world and a child of Indo-Europen langauges; it has nothing to do with proselyzing, pagan bashing part of Christianity.
– The technologies you are talking about are invented by Jews who do not proselytize, agnostic technocrats who I am sure deplore conversions, atheists who care less for soul saving missionaries, Hindus, Buddhists (all of Japan!) Parsis, Mohammedans and yes, Christians too!

I hope you are now cured.

***

Anonymous: you keep harping on some ‘secret’; hope you are kidding or are you a nutcase who thinks people post time and venue about ‘secret’ talks on the net? No wonder there are people who think everything is either a Zionist conspiracy or done by Modi. Bah!

No all Indians. Only those who use english/firefox/windows etc. and yet go around acting as though they are superior in some way… They seem infest cyberspace, but thankfully they are a minority in meatspace.

Palahalli: you are asking questions that are far too logical, meaningful, pointed and thus clearly communal.
You need to understand the secualr concept before expecting any answer (such as ‘YOU have too much time in your hand’ because you are asking thoughtful questions).

“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782”