warner28 wrote:Yeah, he had nothing to do with it. Everyone else's fault.

Today, Matt was the reason the offense did not score 20+ points, no one else and this is not the first time he has been a disaster.

If you want to let him off the hook that is your choice but Matt is not playing at anywhere near the level he did in 2005 and IMO he is no longer capable of playing anywhere near that level on a regular basis regardless of the team around him.

I wasn't talking about today, I was talking about the last couple years. Everyone has a bad game. Even the greatest of all time. So chill...

Prove my argument wrong.

He is a pocket QB, but has two rushing TDs in the last game. Why is this? Because no one is open. He makes things happen. He just makes mistakes, like anyone else.

Last edited by Zowert on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zowert wrote:Well you don't like to look at the situation he's put in, you would rather blame it all on the QB.

He has a crap O-line protecting him, questionable receivers, a lack of a "go-to" man and an unproven offensive coordinator. What do you expect? A quarterback is limited to the team around him and in the lat couple seasons, the team around him has been a complete joke.

That's true to a point, but Hasselbeck's performance this game and last years Greenbay and Bucs games were nobodies fault but himself. And I'm sure Hass, being a classy guy, would say the same thing.

Zowert wrote:Well you don't like to look at the situation he's put in, you would rather blame it all on the QB.

He has a crap O-line protecting him, questionable receivers, a lack of a "go-to" man and an unproven offensive coordinator. What do you expect? A quarterback is limited to the team around him and in the lat couple seasons, the team around him has been a complete joke.

That's true to a point, but Hasselbeck's performance this game and last years Greenbay and Bucs games were nobodies fault but himself. And I'm sure Hass, being a classy guy, would say the same thing.

So where were you last week to point this out? You were silent. Why? Cause Hass played like Hass. He just had a bad game today. Everyone has those from time to time. He's done the best he can with the cards he's been delt. He's not exactly a QB for the New England Patriots. This team is rebuilding.

But yea, in an interview today he took responsibility for today's loss.

Zowert wrote:Well you don't like to look at the situation he's put in, you would rather blame it all on the QB.

He has a crap O-line protecting him, questionable receivers, a lack of a "go-to" man and an unproven offensive coordinator. What do you expect? A quarterback is limited to the team around him and in the lat couple seasons, the team around him has been a complete joke.

That's true to a point, but Hasselbeck's performance this game and last years Greenbay and Bucs games were nobodies fault but himself. And I'm sure Hass, being a classy guy, would say the same thing.

So where were you last week to point this out? You were silent. Why? Cause Hass played like Hass. He just had a bad game today. Everyone has those from time to time. He's done the best he can with the cards he's been delt. He's not exactly a QB for the New England Patriots. This team is rebuilding.

He's had three "bad" games in the past five he's played. It's turning into a trend.

Some of us have been saying it, including last week, I gave him props but mostly because he did not screw things up last week, he did nothing special last week, anytime he has been tasked with picking the team up over the last couple years he has failed.

IMO, today was closer to Hass playing like Hass but even if last week is Hass, its still no one that is going to win you a playoff game.

warner28 wrote:Some of us have been saying it, including last week, I gave him props but mostly because he did not screw things up last week, he did nothing special last week, anytime he has been tasked with picking the team up over the last couple years he has failed.

IMO, today was closer to Hass playing like Hass but even if last week is Hass, its still no one that is going to win you a playoff game.

He did NOTHING special last week? LOL! Were you even watching the game?

18/23 170 yards, 2 TD's and 1 rushing TD (1 int)

Hass had the best passer rating in week 1. Come on bro, you're just being a little negative.

MeanBlueGreen wrote:Mot sure why he is obsessed with the play down the sideline. Very few throws over the middle and, missed a critical throw late in the 3rd that would have been a difference maker - guy was open by at least 5 years. Bummer. I'm a big Hass fan but watching him live, I have to question his reads on the receivers. Opening drive looked great until he threw the pick. Went downhill from there.

Its not that Hass is obsessed with those plays, those were the cards he was delt. Hass isnt necessarily allowed to call audibles like he used to under Holmgren. He gets the play calls and tries to execute them, that's all he can do. Most of the completions Hass made were up the middle anyway, so I dont know what youre talking about.

I'm talking about the fact that the majority of Matt's throws are to the sidelines on either swing passes or fade routes. I don't know what game you were watching today, but the one I saw today had him constantly challenging Brian Dawkins for some reason.

John Carlson was not his only choice today. In a 3 or 4 WR set, you have more than 1 choice yet it seemed he kept trying to go to Carlson.

kidhawk wrote:If you want to look objectively at hasselbeck, you have to do the same with Whitehurst and from what I've seen he's not the answer today, tomorrow, next year or ever. We wasted a pick on him and we'll still be looking for our qb of the future next year and the year after until someone figures this out. Hasselbeck is our only option at winning now.

How do you know this about Whitehurst without ever seeing him in a regular season situation? If you want to compare Whitehurst with Hasselbeck you put them under center with the same supporting cast. That's not something that's been done to this point.

Stiletto wrote:I guess im not sure why the focus is on JUST Hasslebeck? I saw so much garbage plays and costly penalties that it made me sick.

I mean seriously, the team self destructed on so many levels that it was embarressing.

I am not saying that he DIDNT play poorly, I'm just saying that its one area in a long list of problem areas for this team today.

THANK YOU! Where is the thread on how bad the defense played? They let the Broncos march right down the field on nearly every drive. There were some game changing penalties from the O-line. A bad fumble by a rookie and bone head plays from Curry. But nooooo, Hass gets the heat.

warner28 wrote:Some of us have been saying it, including last week, I gave him props but mostly because he did not screw things up last week, he did nothing special last week, anytime he has been tasked with picking the team up over the last couple years he has failed.

IMO, today was closer to Hass playing like Hass but even if last week is Hass, its still no one that is going to win you a playoff game.

He did NOTHING special last week? LOL! Were you even watching the game?

18/23 170 yards, 2 TD's and 1 rushing TD (1 int)

Hass had the best passer rating in week 1. Come on bro, you're just being a little negative.

He controlled the game, I did not say different. That was what he was asked to do and he did it, that is why I gave him props last year.

Against SF he was not asked to make the difficult throw, it was the defense (not him) that kept Seattle in the game and it was the defense that was the game changer.

As I said he had a good game, it was not a great game, today a good game probably would have been enough (and is about all he is capable of nowadays IMO) but he had a bad game instead.

Today when the team really needed a Pro Bowl performance he took a dump.

endzorn wrote:I love the guy, always will...but when I watch him play it is painfully obvious that he is not the answer. At some point we need to find out what we have in Whitehurst.

Ruskell was an idiot for not getting us a future QB and letting him sit and learn while Hass plays out his contract. Green Bay, San Diego and Philly did this with really good QB's on their roster. We need to find out if CBJ is the guy going forward or if we need to draft a QB high in the upcoming draft. Hass' days are numbered here. His best attribute, his decision making, is not even very good anymore. Like you said, love the guy for what he has done, but it's time to move on. We aren't going anywhere with him this year and he doesn't deserve a new contract. Gotta find out if CBJ is the guy for this team and Bates offense.

MeanBlueGreen wrote:Mot sure why he is obsessed with the play down the sideline. Very few throws over the middle and, missed a critical throw late in the 3rd that would have been a difference maker - guy was open by at least 5 years. Bummer. I'm a big Hass fan but watching him live, I have to question his reads on the receivers. Opening drive looked great until he threw the pick. Went downhill from there.

Its not that Hass is obsessed with those plays, those were the cards he was delt. Hass isnt necessarily allowed to call audibles like he used to under Holmgren. He gets the play calls and tries to execute them, that's all he can do. Most of the completions Hass made were up the middle anyway, so I dont know what youre talking about.

I'm talking about the fact that the majority of Matt's throws are to the sidelines on either swing passes or fade routes. I don't know what game you were watching today, but the one I saw today had him constantly challenging Brian Dawkins for some reason.

His TD pass, was up the middle. Two of his Branch passes, up the middle. 4/5 of Carlson's receptions were up the middle and William's sole catch, was towards the middle.

GeekHawk wrote:Zowert, my man. It does no good to use facts on the haters. They gonna hate.

Okay, so you agree that Matt is the only one getting the blame then? Ignoring the FACT (you like facts) that there are plenty of threads questioning the defense, the coaching, Curry, and pretty much everything else on the main board.

But yeah, we are the one's singling Matt out, okay

Matt is the leader, he is the veteran, he is the CAPTAIN, he gets more credit and more blame, its how it works but he is NOT being singled out as Zowart claims. Its simply not happening.

warner28 wrote:Some of us have been saying it, including last week, I gave him props but mostly because he did not screw things up last week, he did nothing special last week, anytime he has been tasked with picking the team up over the last couple years he has failed.

IMO, today was closer to Hass playing like Hass but even if last week is Hass, its still no one that is going to win you a playoff game.

He did NOTHING special last week? LOL! Were you even watching the game?

18/23 170 yards, 2 TD's and 1 rushing TD (1 int)

Hass had the best passer rating in week 1. Come on bro, you're just being a little negative.

He controlled the game, I did not say different. That was what he was asked to do and he did it, that is why I gave him props last year.

Against SF he was not asked to make the difficult throw, it was the defense (not him) that kept Seattle in the game and it was the defense that was the game changer.

As I said he had a good game, it was not a great game, today a good game probably would have been enough (and is about all he is capable of nowadays IMO) but he had a bad game instead.

Today when the team really needed a Pro Bowl performance he took a dump.

No matter what I say you're going to do your best to discredit Hass. You love to argue.

Your point was that Hass did nothing special in the game against the 49ers....... NOTHING? Really? It was his rushing TD that gave the Hawks momentum. He was responsible for 21 points in that game. If scoring the majority of points and leading a team to victory is "nothing special" then what is special to you?

Last edited by Zowert on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GeekHawk wrote:Zowert, my man. It does no good to use facts on the haters. They gonna hate.

Okay, so you agree that Matt is the only one getting the blame then? Ignoring the FACT (you like facts) that there are plenty of threads questioning the defense, the coaching, Curry, and pretty much everything else on the main board.

But yeah, we are the one's singling Matt out, okay

Matt is the leader, he is the veteran, he is the CAPTAIN, he gets more credit and more blame, its how it works but he is NOT being singled out as Zowart claims. Its simply not happening.

Uhmmm yeah! LOL! Hass has a bad game and the haters come out to play. They're silent when he plays well. Why is there no Walter Thurmond thread in the general discussion forum? It was his fumble that turned the momentum to the Broncos.

Zowert wrote:Your point was that Hass did nothing special in the game against the 49ers....... NOTHING? Really? It was his rushing TD that gave the Hawks momentum. He was responsible for 21 points in that game.

Hmm, so when Hass does good he gets credit, but when he sucks its the team's fault. I smell a double standard.

GeekHawk wrote:Zowert, my man. It does no good to use facts on the haters. They gonna hate.

Okay, so you agree that Matt is the only one getting the blame then? Ignoring the FACT (you like facts) that there are plenty of threads questioning the defense, the coaching, Curry, and pretty much everything else on the main board.

But yeah, we are the one's singling Matt out, okay

Matt is the leader, he is the veteran, he is the CAPTAIN, he gets more credit and more blame, its how it works but he is NOT being singled out as Zowart claims. Its simply not happening.

Uhmmm yeah! LOL! Hass has a bad game and the haters come out to play. They're silent when he plays well. Why is there no Walter Thurmond thread in the general discussion forum? It was his fumble that turned the momentum to the Broncos.

Because Thurmond is a ROOKIE day 2 draft pick whom made 1 mistake in his 2nd game of his career, Matt on the otherhand is a veteran who is the CAPTAIN of the team and made multiple mistakes today.

Is that a double standard? Probably but a fair one.

When Thurmond is in his 10th year as a Seahawk and a team captain and fumbles a punt return I expect a thread about it.

warner28 wrote:Because Thurmond is a ROOKIE day 2 draft pick whom made 1 mistake in his 2nd game of his career, Matt on the otherhand is a veteran who is the CAPTAIN of the team and made multiple mistakes today.

Is that a double standard? Probably but a fair one.

When Thurmond is in his 10th year as a Seahawk and a team captain and fumbles a punt return I expect a thread about it.

Regardless if he's a rookie, he's still an NFL player and he should be able to catch an F'n ball!!!! Its not like he got burned by a pro bowl receiver on a difficult route. All he had to do was catch a ball. You want to talk about 7th graders, I know a couple JV middle school football players that have never dropped a punt return.

Last edited by Zowert on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zowert wrote:No matter what I say you're going to do your best to discredit Hass. You love to argue.

Your point was that Hass did nothing special in the game against the 49ers....... NOTHING? Really? It was his rushing TD that gave the Hawks momentum. He was responsible for 21 points in that game.

I gave him credit for that game, I believe the defense did more than him in San Francisco but I gave him credit for that game, he played a good game.

It was not a Pro Bowl performance IMO, I stand by that. But if you want to say it was a great performance and he won the game last week, fine. You win.

Think what you want to think about me with regards to Hass but no one is singling him out.

I am much more interested in your claim that we are singling him out because that is BS and you know it.

So now you're giving him credit, after you said he did nothing special.

It was a great performance, everyone thought so. Not just me.

It wasn't special, it was good, not special.

If others thought it was great or special, fine, I thought it was good and gave him credit for as much last week.

I am done with this line of debate. We aren't singling him out anymore than he deserves, he is the QB, veteran, and captain. He deserves to be criticized for today and how he has played in recent history overall.

Zowert wrote:Your point was that Hass did nothing special in the game against the 49ers....... NOTHING? Really? It was his rushing TD that gave the Hawks momentum. He was responsible for 21 points in that game.

Hmm, so when Hass does good he gets credit, but when he sucks its the team's fault. I smell a double standard.

No, I wasn't praising his performance today. I said he had a bad game. But the entire team had a bad game.

There should be a thread that says "Objective look at the Seahawks" not "Hasselbeck".

I'm not trying to be a homer, or a jerk.. I just wish we would stand behind our QB instead of throwing him under the bus all the time.

Last edited by Zowert on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

warner28 wrote:Because Thurmond is a ROOKIE day 2 draft pick whom made 1 mistake in his 2nd game of his career, Matt on the otherhand is a veteran who is the CAPTAIN of the team and made multiple mistakes today.

Is that a double standard? Probably but a fair one.

When Thurmond is in his 10th year as a Seahawk and a team captain and fumbles a punt return I expect a thread about it.

Regardless if he's a rookie, he's still an NFL player and he should be able to catch an F'n ball!!!! Its not like he got burned by a pro bowl receiver on a difficult route. All he had to do was catch a ball. You want to talk about 7th graders, I know a couple JV middle school football players that have never dropped a punt return.

Then start a thread about Thurmond.

I have no expectations for Walter (and never claimed I did) so when a guy I have no expectations for fails to deliver I am not going to waste my time on it.

If it bothered you that much, start a thread, bet it gets to 3 pages really quick because Thurmond did screw up, just did not surprise me when he did.

I have expectations for Matt and Curry so those are the one's I talk about (and notice I started neither thread about them either, just responded to others posts).

warner28 wrote:Because Thurmond is a ROOKIE day 2 draft pick whom made 1 mistake in his 2nd game of his career, Matt on the otherhand is a veteran who is the CAPTAIN of the team and made multiple mistakes today.

Is that a double standard? Probably but a fair one.

When Thurmond is in his 10th year as a Seahawk and a team captain and fumbles a punt return I expect a thread about it.

Regardless if he's a rookie, he's still an NFL player and he should be able to catch an F'n ball!!!! Its not like he got burned by a pro bowl receiver on a difficult route. All he had to do was catch a ball. You want to talk about 7th graders, I know a couple JV middle school football players that have never dropped a punt return.

Then start a thread about Thurmond.

I have no expectations for Walter (and never claimed I did) so when a guy I have no expectations for fails to deliver I am not going to waste my time on it.

If it bothered you that much, start a thread, bet it gets to 3 pages really quick because Thurmond did screw up, just did not surprise me when he did.

I have expectations for Matt and Curry so those are the one's I talk about (and notice I started neither thread about them either, just responded to others posts).

I respect your opinion and give credit to your arguments.

I'm just bothered by the lack of support Hass gets. When he has a good game, no one really cares. But when he plays badly, people come out of the woodwork just to trash on him. I feel like this would be the case for ANYONE under center. There is no more loyalty. QB's arent human beings, no, they're professional athletes who should never make mistakes and have an off night.

Last edited by Zowert on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If you actually look around this board, find the thread I started, you will notice something, the one I started was positive and optimistic about this season.

Even my first post in this thread was far from an attack of Matt, Matt is an average NFL QB and I expect him to play like today often and like last week often, neither is good enough to win in the playoffs IMO, I want a QB that can win in the playoffs, Matt ain't that guy anymore IMO.

IMO I wish "stash" would give it a rest. history told the tale in all other aspects of life, why should hawks football be any different?like others have said, I'm a hassle fan, but not one with blind faith in his future play.

I hate to say it but I too would like to find out what we have in cbj before we beat this horse and gloss over looking for the magical draft pick. btw if you think it's Locker you're not sober.

really like the guy but, no, I just think this team needs new blood behind center.

If you actually look around this board, find the thread I started, you will notice something, the one I started was positive and optimistic about this season.

Even my first post in this thread was far from an attack of Matt, Matt is an average NFL QB and I expect him to play like today often and like last week often, neither is good enough to win in the playoffs IMO, I want a QB that can win in the playoffs, Matt ain't that guy anymore IMO.

cknoxxhawk wrote:IMO I wish "stash" would give it a rest. history told the tale in all other aspects of life, why should hawks football be any different?like others have said, I'm a hassle fan, but not one with blind faith in his future play.

I hate to say it but I too would like to find out what we have in cbj before we beat this horse and gloss over looking for the magical draft pick. btw if you think it's Locker you're not sober.

really like the guy but, no, I just think this team needs new blood behind center.

Well you're right. I just have a soft spot for Hass because I see him around Kirkland all the time, he use to stop by the Bank of Washington (I use to work there) and do his personal banking. He's a really nice dude and even remembered me by name (or at least I think he did, and wasn't just reading my name tag). Hass would sign footballs, jerseys and random crap for me when he came in.

So yeah, I'm just a homer. I hate seeing a genuinely great guy get trashed on by the fans. I feel like he's been limited by his weapons and protection over the last couple years.

But.. He's 35 years old. I know he's not in the future for us, just wish the 'haters' would lay off and let him do his thing.

Mjolnir wrote:There is something to say about QB/WR familiarness in a different offensive scheme.

Hass hasn't really developed a chemistry with this receiving core....and with Carlson, both Hass and John are in new offensive schemes. The pre-season just wasn't enought time to develop the chemistry...and hell...with the front office continually changing things, it didn't help things any (NOT that I am complaining....I think the FO did what they needed to do...huge kudos to them for having the cojones to do it).

I think the "long" reads are basically Hass not comfortable with the WR's and their pattern running. He just doesn't seem confident in them, even though they appear to be catching almost anything catchable that is thrown their way.

This is just my opinion, and what I think I'm observing. I think after the 4th game (I know, I know.....we shouldn't have to wait that long) we should see some improvement.

I agree with the 4th game comment, and that's where it ends for me. The OP said it best and I agree 100 percent.We get on here and talk about "schemes" Matt being comfortable etc.

He's a QB in the NFL, he SHOULD be comfortable with his receivers by now.They run a pre determined route...he's supposed to get the ball to them.Nothing more, nothing less.Just like when you were in the backyard as a kid.And Mr Carlson? 3 years in the pros isn't enough for those two to get it together somewhat?Matt was unable to make the throws today and that makes me a sad panda.I would be willing to bet that Whitehurst is in the very near plans and its not because I'm suicidal over the donkeys slapping us around.We had our chances to be in that game.3 turnovers against a good team that dosent lose at home very often will make for a very long day.what I'm saying is Pete Carroll is going to have to find out what he has in CBJ before the end of this season so he can "win forever", because Matt Hasselbeck isn't going to be here.

kidhawk wrote:If you want to look objectively at hasselbeck, you have to do the same with Whitehurst and from what I've seen he's not the answer today, tomorrow, next year or ever. We wasted a pick on him and we'll still be looking for our qb of the future next year and the year after until someone figures this out. Hasselbeck is our only option at winning now.

How do you know this about Whitehurst without ever seeing him in a regular season situation? If you want to compare Whitehurst with Hasselbeck you put them under center with the same supporting cast. That's not something that's been done to this point.

1000% true. the "confirmed guesstimates" are ridiculous. we know nothing about cw, and that's the only truth I'm afraid. we need to, it's a new hawks era and we need to keep building. there's no Hass hate, just realistic hawk matters.

My two cents - my problem with Hass today wasn't so much that he had a bad game - everyone has them.

It is that his glaring problems that will not go away were at the forefront.

Two of the biggest problems today were:

His arm is poor. It not only cost us interceptions but other completions. Yes he has great touch, but at this stage of the game - he can't make all the throws. This is why guys can sit on routes because many of the deeper throws hang and allow time for the safety to break it up. It is either this or he frankly underthrows the receiver. The pick to Dawkins was exactly this.

He is a veteran but he has always had a penchant for making frantic decisions or Favre-esque cowboy-like decisions. 4th and 2 corner endzone to Deion Branch is a perfect example. Maybe Bates called that - but I doubt it.

He is like Jeff Garcia. A winner for the most part but isn't a total package.

For one, I have to see if CBJ can get experience and play or if we need another option at QB. We are young and have some of the pieces. Hass is NOT a long-term answer.

I agree. Hass will not be here next year. CBJ will have to play to see if we draft QB or not. We are rebuilding, not gunning for a deep playoff run.

"Think how powerful our togetherness will be, our mindset will be as we know that we've shouldered this and move forward. This is really hard to take now, but in the long run, it will make us stronger. Our guys are so strong and our future is bright." Pete Carroll

I have said that Hass will be replaced before mid season..I stand by it. CW could have done everything that Hass did (good) today. Look, I love me some Hass, he was a good QB and will always be an even better person IMHO.

BUT alas...its time to move on. Bench Hass, get CW in there. Hass is a team player and he'll be a good "coach" to CW and a viable back up in case Chuck goes down.

the first interception should never have been thrown because two plays before there should have been a rushing td by forsett...those two bungled o-line moves prior to the pick weren't his fault and the hold, which did nothing to change the outcome of the play, brought that td back..i do peg the 2nd and 3rd one on him--on the last one i really don't hold too much anger because they were pretty much forced to pass pass pass and so that is usually a disaster waiting to happen to any team that far down with that little time left.

2003: Beat the favored SF team at the end of 2003, to make the playoffs.2004: The Saints and Bucs were supposed to be good opponents early in 2004, and Seattle won both of those. They beat the the 8-8 Vikings and the 11-5 Falcons on the road that year too.2005: Won 5 straight road games, but none of them finished with a winning record.2006: Beat one team with a winning record on the road. Denver.2007: Terrible season for playing on the road. Did beat Philly though, who finished 8-8. Philly didn't have McNabb though.