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Cry Havok and let loose the dogs of the [Military Thread]

Posts

the USMJC has provisions for adultary? Are you fucking with me? Seriously?

Damn.

I like the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982 WAY better. Its an act of federal government, and is basically supplemental law that military members need to adhere to. So there is no overlap with civilian laws.

Shit like DUI gets your security clearence yanked and gets you months of extras, so people avoid it like the plague.

Seriously, adultary, WTF America, stay out of peoples bedrooms!

I'm guessing the biggest problem with adultery is when one member of the military is sleeping with another's spouse. That's just asking for trouble, much moreso than in the civilian world. I'm betting most adultery charges come out of such a situation, rather than cases where someone in the military is having an affair with a civilian's spouse.

This happened to me while I was deployed last time. I took all the proof I had to my 1Sgt, and he didn't do anything. He told me that he basically had to have a sworn statement from one of the two parties to do anything about it. I'm pretty sure he was full of shit, as he was the worst 1Sgt I've ever had the displeasure of having.

“(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient
to complete the offense.

(b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall by punished as a court-martial may direct.”

He is correct. BJs are a violation of UCMJ as long as the Sodomy article exists.

As for adultery, it is actually nigh impossible to prove as you have to actually prove penis in vagina from what JAG told my CO and me. So a pregnancy, photos of them in the act, or eye witnesses of them in the act is the clincher. Otherwise you are gonna have a rough time.

I stand by the UCMJ having something on adultery because it can affect mission readiness and group cohesion (unlike say a BJ/butt sex or two dudes/gals doing it) because of the cheating factor. Also, it goes back to the US govt is spending money on your spouse and giving you benefits for them. This is an abuse of those benefits and a form of flipping Uncle Sam the bird.

No, it's not a super serious crime like murder or robbery or rape and whatnot, but having something on it should exist, IMO.

Wow I've never heard sodomy being used to describe oral sex. I stand corrected.

Moving on, the DADT brief I got last week specifically mentioned that the sodomy portion of the UCMJ is being removed as part of the repeal of the DADT policies. I'm not sure if it was specifically stipulated in the law's repeal, or if someone actually used their fucking brain but either way it's a smart move.

He is correct. BJs are a violation of UCMJ as long as the Sodomy article exists.

As for adultery, it is actually nigh impossible to prove as you have to actually prove penis in vagina from what JAG told my CO and me. So a pregnancy, photos of them in the act, or eye witnesses of them in the act is the clincher. Otherwise you are gonna have a rough time.

I stand by the UCMJ having something on adultery because it can affect mission readiness and group cohesion (unlike say a BJ/butt sex or two dudes/gals doing it) because of the cheating factor. Also, it goes back to the US govt is spending money on your spouse and giving you benefits for them. This is an abuse of those benefits and a form of flipping Uncle Sam the bird.

No, it's not a super serious crime like murder or robbery or rape and whatnot, but having something on it should exist, IMO.

It can't be that hard to prove adultery. I seem to see monthly reports on the Marne channel (3ID's very own television station, I am sure most if not all posts have something similar) about someone getting busted down and kicked out for adultery.

And yeah, DADT cannot be repealed with the sodomy law in place. That would just be stupid.

He is correct. BJs are a violation of UCMJ as long as the Sodomy article exists.

As for adultery, it is actually nigh impossible to prove as you have to actually prove penis in vagina from what JAG told my CO and me. So a pregnancy, photos of them in the act, or eye witnesses of them in the act is the clincher. Otherwise you are gonna have a rough time.

It can't be that hard to prove adultery. I seem to see monthly reports on the Marne channel (3ID's very own television station, I am sure most if not all posts have something similar) about someone getting busted down and kicked out for adultery.

And yeah, DADT cannot be repealed with the sodomy law in place. That would just be stupid.

Maybe 3ID needs to work on not getting caught? Seriously, to have a justifiable case, you need to prove the sex occurred and that's not easy. I'm sure that there a more ways to do it than just what I've listed, but it's still a tough thing to do.

He is correct. BJs are a violation of UCMJ as long as the Sodomy article exists.

As for adultery, it is actually nigh impossible to prove as you have to actually prove penis in vagina from what JAG told my CO and me. So a pregnancy, photos of them in the act, or eye witnesses of them in the act is the clincher. Otherwise you are gonna have a rough time.

It can't be that hard to prove adultery. I seem to see monthly reports on the Marne channel (3ID's very own television station, I am sure most if not all posts have something similar) about someone getting busted down and kicked out for adultery.

And yeah, DADT cannot be repealed with the sodomy law in place. That would just be stupid.

Maybe 3ID needs to work on not getting caught? Seriously, to have a justifiable case, you need to prove the sex occurred and that's not easy. I'm sure that there a more ways to do it than just what I've listed, but it's still a tough thing to do.

Well if a woman claims it happens than it is generally accepted as fact, lawlawl

Seriously though, I am pretty sure that is how a lot of it happens. I know two people that were charged with rape that were innocent. I know that is anecdotal but if there is one thing I learned about how the military operates (besides loving to spend money as unefficiently as possible) it is that they love to make examples out of people.

Well, someone coming forward and saying "We had sex" would pretty much fit the bill. I'm referring to cases where both parties are trying to be sneaky and one isn't seeking to out the other, those are much harder to catch.

Yes, people get made examples of, which is wrong. Sadly, it's part of the command climate where you have to "show" you're doing something to deter wrongful behavior, and many commanders interpret that as "pick someone and send a message". Im also sorry that your friends were wrongfully convicted, but these days you pretty much need to have a signed and notarized contract with drug test and breathalyzer results affixed and video recording of the act to show continued consent throughout to prevent yourself from being opened up to the possibility of rape accusations.

gonna semi-revive the thread with a uncharacteristically serious discussion

pretty much my entire contribution to these threads has been about medic AIT or national guard bullshit or whatever, or how I'm hardly a soldier, but I'm gonna break my streak and reveal how little I truly know about the military

that 19 year old, I graduated with him at AIT. He was a medic. I wasn't even close to him, he and I were in different platoons. I was assigned to the same room as him in reception at AIT though, I've talked to him. Nice guy. tricked me into looking at his balls once. but really, funny goofy friendly harmless army guy.

I can't even say I'm depressed or in grief about it, I just keep thinking about it, over and over. The kid was 19 man, you can even go and look at his fucking facebook and he has pictures up from highschool in drag for theatre or whatever. he was also a nerd, we liked a lot of the same shit. he finished basic in 2009 and graduated AIT with me in late march, 2010

and the way he was killed, I don't even know. I know nothing of afghanistan, and only a bit of iraq since I was once slated to go there but I didn't finish training in time, my brother went for a year. I don't know anything really about these security forces but just thinking about it puzzles me... he was just straight up murdered. there was not fight involved, he was probably goofing off cleaning his weapon before what would typically be any other patrol and some guy who he thinks has his back just opens fire. I can't even process how that scene played out without asking myself a million questions

it's just weird to say that I've talked with a guy who was murdered, I guess. god, I can't believe my ego in saying that, but I'm thinking about it so much, I just feel so sorry for his family.

gonna semi-revive the thread with a uncharacteristically serious discussion

pretty much my entire contribution to these threads has been about medic AIT or national guard bullshit or whatever, or how I'm hardly a soldier, but I'm gonna break my streak and reveal how little I truly know about the military

that 19 year old, I graduated with him at AIT. He was a medic. I wasn't even close to him, he and I were in different platoons. I was assigned to the same room as him in reception at AIT though, I've talked to him. Nice guy. tricked me into looking at his balls once. but really, funny goofy friendly harmless army guy.

I can't even say I'm depressed or in grief about it, I just keep thinking about it, over and over. The kid was 19 man, you can even go and look at his fucking facebook and he has pictures up from highschool in drag for theatre or whatever. he was also a nerd, we liked a lot of the same shit. he finished basic in 2009 and graduated AIT with me in late march, 2010

and the way he was killed, I don't even know. I know nothing of afghanistan, and only a bit of iraq since I was once slated to go there but I didn't finish training in time, my brother went for a year. I don't know anything really about these security forces but just thinking about it puzzles me... he was just straight up murdered. there was not fight involved, he was probably goofing off cleaning his weapon before what would typically be any other patrol and some guy who he thinks has his back just opens fire. I can't even process how that scene played out without asking myself a million questions

it's just weird to say that I've talked with a guy who was murdered, I guess. god, I can't believe my ego in saying that, but I'm thinking about it so much, I just feel so sorry for his family.

Sorry to hear that man. 3 people have died from my class of BCT and AIT (1 small arms, 2 IED's), and from my deployments one person but the one I was closest with. I still mourn/grieve every year on the anniversary of his death. After patrols and our shifts, we'd hang out and play Halo 2 for hours on end, killing time. We he died, I was in shock.

I'm not trying to one up you, just to show you where I'm coming from and the advice I've received because fuck military chaplains. I made the mistake of asking a Military Chaplain for advice and all he did was read the bible to me. It made me so angry I said, "Sir, with all due respect, if I wanted to read the bible I would've read the bible. What advice can you give me to get over the guilt and depression?" to which he gave me the typical religious speech.

Basically, try not to dwell on it, it'll drive you mad. When my buddy died, my dad told me, "don't dwell on it. Don't think about what you could've done, what could've happened, or what you missed out on. Don't think about how you should've talked more or hung out more instead think about the times you did. Think about all the good times that you had, the jokes, the laughter, the fun. Continue living your life to make them proud so that they didn't die in vain."

Now you said you weren't all that close, but still. Don't dwell on it, grieve if you need to, but try to get on with what you're doing. The scene at the end of Saving Private Ryan, basically that.

Earn it.

If this came across a little cold, sorry. I've become really jaded and I'm trying to pick my words carefully so it doesn't spill off onto others.

Just found out today that I lost my promotable 6 months ago status due to "Not completing an APFT in the past 12 months". I've been on the list for 14 months and I've done a PT test every three months and I guess no one submitted them, thanks a whole fucking lot old crap unit.

The only good news is I finally have a school date to change my MOS so very very excited to be a 68A, but I'm sure the AIT would be so much more chill if I had that rocker.

If your heading to AIT as a reclass AIT should be a joke for the most part. Reclass soldiers for the most part get to dodge all of the bs that exists for the IET Soldiers (Living in a barracks, no POVs, weekend pass system, etc.)

Gate security is one of those things that has been privatized for larger military bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. When I was in Iraq, private security forces from Uganda (yes, seriously) did all gate security and ID checks on post. American military had to show their IDs to contractors in order to get into the PX and food court area. Seriously.

It does help reduce the burden upon units to provide Soldiers and Marines to do the same thing, theoretically putting more people into the fight for cheaper. But, I always question if the money cost is outweighed by shit like this where a cheaply paid, relatively untrained person is put into that kind of a situation.

This is how America fights its wars now, privatizing every aspect they can because its cheaper to hire guys from Pakistan, India, the Phillipines, and who knows where else to work the kitchens, clean the bathrooms, conduct repairs, and guard the gates. I don't like it, especially since giving the Afghans jobs is how we're supposed to be helping them.

That all being said, I wanted to express my condolences to FGM. I know you said you two weren't exactly close, but death can touch us all in the strangest of ways and I hope you come through the grieving process okay.

My DD214 says I've got it, but when I read online apparently I don't have the requirements (I need active duty time, IET status doesn't count). Should I alert my CoC that I have something that I didn't earn or just put on sunglasses and say to myself "Just deal with it".

My DD214 says I've got it, but when I read online apparently I don't have the requirements (I need active duty time, IET status doesn't count). Should I alert my CoC that I have something that I didn't earn or just put on sunglasses and say to myself "Just deal with it".

I think anyone who was in after 9/11 gets it almost automatically. The "right" answer is to follow up and tell someone but truthfully, the amount of headache and time you'll spend fixing it probably isn't worth it.

My DD214 says I've got it, but when I read online apparently I don't have the requirements (I need active duty time, IET status doesn't count). Should I alert my CoC that I have something that I didn't earn or just put on sunglasses and say to myself "Just deal with it".

n 2004, Defense Department and military service branches began publishing directives, messages, and orders, that specified that the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal would be awarded not only for direct participation in specific operations, for also to any personnel who performed support duty of an anti-terrorism operation but do not directly participate.
The phrase "support" was further defined as any administrative, logistics, planning, operational, technical, or readiness activity, which provides support to an operation of the Global War on Terror. As a result of this blanket term, the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal became an eligible award for most personnel of the United States armed forces who performed service after September 11, 2001 through March 2004.
With the orders granting the GWOTSM for "support duty", the medal has essentially become almost the same type of award as the National Defense Service Medal and graduates of training schools, ROTC, and service academies are typically presented both awards at the same time. The primary difference between the NDSM and the GWOTSM is that the NDSM is automatic as soon as a person joins the military whereas the GWOTSM may only be presented after thirty days of duty (or three months in the case of the reserves). The regulations for reservists are also not as well defined for the GWOTSM as they are for the NDSM, since the presentation of the NDSM to reservists has codified and clarified as far back as the Gulf War.

But what's funny is the following:

Army Regulation 600-8-22 (11 Dec 2006 revision) Paragraph 2-19-c-2, states, "All Soldiers on active duty, including Reserve Component Soldiers mobilized, or National Guard Soldiers activated on or after 11 September 2001 to a date to be determined having served 30 consecutive days or 60 nonconsecutive days are authorized the GWOTSM."[2] The "date to be determined" was established by senior military leaders as March 2004.[3]
Army Soldiers serving on active duty primarily in a training status (basic training, advanced individual training, officer training courses, etc…) are not authorized award of the GWOTSM for the active duty time they are in training. The criteria for the awards specifically states that a Soldier has to serve on active duty in support of a designated GWOT operation (ONE, OEF and OIF) for 30 consecutive days or 60 nonconsecutive days. Soldiers in a training status are “not” supporting these designated operations[4]

Like Iceman said, the right answer is to follow up on it, but it's too much of a headache, the people you ask about it will probably tell you to sod off, and the promotion points from it is so little to be a leg up on anyone. For all intensive purposes, because it's on your DD214, check your 2-1. Technically, since it's on your DD214, you've earned the award. If you ever wear it, you could show your DD214 if someone questions you about it. Also check your 2-1, because if it's there as well, congratulations, you've earned the medal.

Everyone get's the award now, it's another NDSM. I've seen kids graduate basic/AIT with the medal, so it's nothing special. What's weird is that every individual is authorized 1, but I have 2 on my dd214 (I got one on each tour). I also have 2 NDSM's, which I think is weird. I joined July 07, 2001, got the 2nd NDSM on my 2nd tour in 2008. I guess it's because I've been during 2 different periods? Weird.

As far I as know you shouldn't have 2 GWOT medals ever. You can get GWOT and GWOT-E (Expeditionary) for deploying but not more than one.

I could be wrong, I've never looked into it carefully.

You're right that you can only get one of each, the GWOT Service and the GWOT Expeditionary. And the prior pretty much is a gimme for everyone nowadays.

Evigilant, on your awards block in your 214 does it say GWOT (2) or does it just list it twice? If the first then someone did indeed screw up. If the latter then it's either a screw up or they're listing the two separate ones. Also, your 214 doesn't actually justify any awards, it's just a quick reference. Anyone actually set on verifying whether or not it's true could get a hold of the appropriate documents relatively easy. Not that anyone would ever bother for a GWOTS.

As far as your National Defense Service Medal, you do indeed get that one twice for being enlisted during two separate times of "war".

As far I as know you shouldn't have 2 GWOT medals ever. You can get GWOT and GWOT-E (Expeditionary) for deploying but not more than one.

I could be wrong, I've never looked into it carefully.

You're right that you can only get one of each, the GWOT Service and the GWOT Expeditionary. And the prior pretty much is a gimme for everyone nowadays.

Evigilant, on your awards block in your 214 does it say GWOT (2) or does it just list it twice? If the first then someone did indeed screw up. If the latter then it's either a screw up or they're listing the two separate ones. Also, your 214 doesn't actually justify any awards, it's just a quick reference. Anyone actually set on verifying whether or not it's true could get a hold of the appropriate documents relatively easy. Not that anyone would ever bother for a GWOTS.

As far as your National Defense Service Medal, you do indeed get that one twice for being enlisted during two separate times of "war".