My name is Tara Carreon. On May 27, 2013, I was the Director of American Buddha, an Oregon nonprofit corporation. American Buddha was represented by counsel , Derek Johnson (OSB 88234) of Johnson Johnson Larson & Schaller, a Eugene firm. Mr. Johnson was American Buddha's counsel of record in Penguin Group (USA), Inc. v. American Buddha, USDC Oregon Case No. 3:13-CV-00497. Opposing counsel representing Penguin was Duane Bosworth and Davis Wright Tremaine, LLP.

Mr. Bosworth still represents Penguin in the litigation, which was transferred on American Buddha's motion to Tucson, Arizona, and is now pending. This is a copyright lawsuit, in which American Buddha is asserting a "library defense" to Penguin's claims, i.e., that it is a library and exempt from copyright infringement liability.

Yesterday Mr. Bosworth took my deposition in the case, and he asked me about a person named Onwuama Charles ("OC"), a person who contacted me on the Internet in response to my request on the website for "Virtual Library Assistants" to assist in the process of preparing manuscripts for placement in the library archive.

I have strong reasons to believe that Mr. Bosworth or someone acting with his knowledge, was the instigator of OC's contact, and thus violated D.R. 7-104 by communicating with a person represented by counsel.

First, one of the books that is the subject of the copyright lawsuit is "The Golden Ass of Apuleius," (the "Golden Ass") a Roman classic of considerable antiquity in which there is very little popular interest. Strangely, the very day after I posted the notice for "Virtual Library Assistants," OC emailed me and said "I came across your library while browsing the web for a copy of 'Metamorphosis' or 'The Golden Ass'...." Suffice it to say that this is the first time anyone has ever emailed me about this book, and the last time anyone has volunteered to be a Virtual Library Assistant ("VLA").

Second, OC was not who he claimed to be. There is only one person named Onwuama Charles on the Internet, and prominently displayed on his Google+ page is -- believe it or not -- a donkey showing its ass to the viewer! Even before discovering this bizarre concurrence of interest in "Asses" both in the zoological and literary realms, I was suspicious of OC, perhaps because he claimed to be from Nigeria. Accordingly, I was cautious in my communications with him, and asked OC to sign an agreement, and present identification to establish his identity, in order to be a VLA. He agreed to sign the agreements, but the age and name on his "Nigerian driver's license" did not match up with the name he used. Eventually, after he had signed three agreements under three names, and had received detailed instructions on how to perform VLA work, he ceased all communications with me. A recent email to him received an indifferent response.

Third, one of Penguin's other attorneys engaged in a violation of the rule against initiating contact with represented parties in 2009, when American Buddha was engaged in litigation with Penguin in the Southern District of New York (appealed once and dismissed for lack of personal jurisdiction twice). American Buddha had a list of registered Library Members, who had signed a "click wrap" agreement that specifically stated that they were not signing up in order to gather evidence for use in Court. Among these was Thomas Kjellberg, an attorney who was representing Penguin in the SDNY lawsuit against American Buddha who had surreptitiously signed up to receive emails, thus initiating ex parte contact for purposes of obtaining communications from a represented party. A copy of the email that was sent to Mr. Kjellberg as a result of his sub rosa signup is uploaded herewith.

Fourth, when Mr. Bosworth began questioning me about OC, I asked him if he had hired OC to communicate with me. He refused to answer. I then told him that if he failed to deny it at this time, it was a tacit admission. He remained silent, and to my eye, looked guilty. I then said, "Okay, I'll take that as an admission." Again he remained silent.

Fifth, the only result of my communications with OC was to create a bit of evidence that I was required to produce to Penguin in discovery. Since one of the weak points of Penguin's case has always been the fact that it has no evidence that anyone ever even looks at the chapters of the books available via American Buddha's websites, the answer to the question "qui bono" from OC's suspicious activities is: Penguin.

Thank you for your email of October 13th, in which you stated that "we understand why you suspect Mr. Bosworth caused a third party to communicate with you." I am glad you understand why I suspect Mr. Bosworth of violating RPC 4.2, the current version of former DR 7-104. I trust that you also agree that, "if true," my complaint alleges ethical misconduct by Mr. Bosworth. Accordingly, as you have noted, under Bar Rule 2.5(b), you are to decide whether "there is sufficient evidence to support a reasonable belief that misconduct may have occurred," in which case "the complaint will be referred to Disciplinary Counsel."

At this point, my inquiry turns to whether you do not also find the various facts I related to you suspicious. I would like to clarify that you find my suspicions reasonable, and that your request for assistance in "developing something linking the third party to Mr. Bosworth" is intended to find all evidence available to me to support a reasonable belief that misconduct occurred.

Thus, I would like to suggest why I believe the facts of my complaint adequately establish the existence of a reasonable belief that misconduct occurred, by presenting an evidentiary scenario that fits our situation in general terms, and drawing reasonable inferences from the posited facts. Let us assume that:

1. Attorney "A" represents "P" against represented party "B" in litigation alleging copyright violations against B's Library for offering access to "The Golden A" on the Internet.2. It will benefit P to develop evidence that will result from having a third party contact B to show that someone has been reading The Golden A at B's Library.3. A and A's lawfirm have an established practice of watching B's Library Website, a fact known to B because A's court submissions make it clear that virtually all Library Website changes are noted by A and his lawfirm.4. Immediately after B posts an ad for a Virtual Library Assistant ("VLA") on B's Library Website, a "Volunteer" sends B an email that creates the evidence beneficial to A's client because it refers to the Volunteer's interest in The Golden A, as an irrelevant aside to his expression of interest in the VLA position.5. B provides confidential information to Volunteer in order to familiarize him with the duties of a VLA.6. When B asks the Volunteer to provide valid identification to establish the VLA relationship with B's Library, the Volunteer produces inconsistent and contradictory identification that B later discovers is fraudulent.7. At B's deposition in the copyright litigation, A questions B about the Volunteer only briefly, avoiding all further questioning after B asks A whether the Volunteer was not in fact A's agent to engage in the ex parte contact.8. Subsequently, the Volunteer fails to deliver the work that he told B he had done, and ceased further contact once he had obtained the confidential information.9. No one ever volunteers for a VLA position again.10. No one has ever, before or sense, written to B or B's Library about The Golden A.11. Previously, an attorney working for P had secretly put himself on B's Library email list, thus engaging in a virtual ex parte contact that harvested evidence beneficial to P that it would not have obtained but for the ex parte contact.This scenario gives rise to the reasonable suspicion that A may in fact be behind the Volunteer's email communications with B, and warrants the referral of the matter to disciplinary counsels, for the following reasons:

1. Facts 1 and 2 establish A's motive to engage in ex parte contact.2. Fact 3 establishes that A knew that he had an opportunity to engage in ex parte contact.3. Fact 4 establishes that the ex parte contact occurred and provided the benefit that would have motivated the ex parte contact.4. Fact 5 establishes injury to B with respect to the matter in which she is represented.5. Fact 7 establishes that A has already been confronted by B with her suspicion that A engaged Volunteer; therefore, if B is ever to know the truth of the matter, she must turn to the Bar Association, that alone will have the authority to pursue this matter.6. Fact 7 further establishes that A has chosen to remain silent under circumstances when a simple denial would have sufficed to put the matter to rest, thus establishing as evidence a tacit admission of the truth that he failed to deny when a reasonable person would have done so.7. Facts 6, 8, 9 and 10 establish that Volunteer was insincere from the outset, and was likely engaged by someone else to pursue what was otherwise a bizarre and purposeless waste of time.8. Fact 11 establishes prior conduct by P's prior attorney, causing injury to B in precisely the same way and for the same reason as has the current ex parte contact.9. The final conclusion of reasonable inferences 1 - 8 is that Volunteer was in fact engaged either: (a) by A or another attorney at A's Lawfirm, or (b) by P, with the knowledge of A.[1]

I respectfully submit that the foregoing chain of reasonable inferences support a reasonable belief that misconduct may have occurred. I further submit that the facts provided in my original complaint establish that Mr. Bosworth and his lawfirm, Davis, Wright, Tremaine, LLP committed a violation of RPC 4.2.

Additional Materials and Information From Complainant

Responding to your request for additional information, please find attached the following additional documents and information:

1. The Second Amended Complaint filed by Mr. Bosworth against American Buddha, in which The Golden Ass is listed as being infringed at the American Buddha Online Library.2. Clearer copies of the available emails between myself and Onwuama Charles.[2]3. Regarding your interest in obtaining Yahoo.com email IP addresses and other information to digitally identify Onwuama Charles, discovery is closed in Penguin v. American Buddha, so no subpoenas can be propounded.

Additional Materials the Office of Client Assistance Should Request from Mr. Bosworth

I respectfully request that, as an officer of the Client Assistance Office, you assist me to either confirm or clear up my suspicion about Mr. Bosworth. It is very stressful to be defending my company in federal court against him when I suspect that he has used unethical tactics. This is not an effort to obtain leverage against my litigation adversary, but simply to know that I am not having to deal with unfair methods. Since you stated that you understand my suspicion, I trust that you will now see why it is also a reasonable suspicion, and warrants further investigation and action by the Bar.

[2] These are only a small proportion of the many emails I had with Onwuama Charles, because most were lost when my tara_carreon@yahoo.com email account was hacked, like those of many Yahoo! email users during April 2013 < http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/04/30 ... ect-users/>. The only emails remaining were those in a little-used account at i@taracarreon.com.[3] American Buddha is a non-profit library that does not have funds to pay substantial litigation expenses such as purchasing two transcripts of two depositions totaling over six hours of testimony.

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURTFOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONAPENGUIN GROUP (USA) INCORPORATED,Plaintiff,v.AMERICAN BUDDHA,Defendants.No. CV-13-02075-TUC-JGZVIDEOTAPE DEPOSITION OF TARA CARREON, VOL. ITucson, Arizona October 7, 2014 2:01 p.m.REPORTED BY: Thomas A. Woppert, RPR AZ CCR No. 50476KATHY FINK & ASSOCIATES 28189 East 22nd Street Tucson, Arizona 85713 (520) 624-8644Page 37, lines 1-25know, for -- for -- for -- you know, for traffic.Q. Where is that list found?A. You know, we had PIWIK, we had cPanel statistics. We no longer have those.Q. Okay. You -- you are unable to obtain those statistics again at this time; is that right?A. They have disappeared into the void of the internet universe.Q. And when did they disappear?A. In July 2013.Q. So that was after this litigation began?A. I -- I don't remember when this litigation -- I mean, you know, this litigation has been going on for five years.Q. Do you recognize the name Onwuama Charles?A. Yes. Is he one of your guys? Did you hire him to send him to me? I -- I've always been wondering that since he came in on the -- "Oh, I just -- you know, I'm interested in the Metamorphoses -- the Golden Ass, you know, hey, you know, I want to be your library assistant," the day after I posted the link.Q. Okay.A. Was he your guy? I mean, are you answering? Did you send him? Because he was a fraud. He gave me all kinds of passport information and -- and vehicle registration thatPage 38, lines 1-25was false.Q. Okay. He was interested in the Golden Ass?A. He was the -- he -- he said -- he was one of those people that I had been talking about, which is why I want this video to be secret, because he is one of your guys on the Internet who -- who -- who is, you know, doing your dirty business for you.Q. So your understanding is that --A. He wasn't -- he said -- you know, who -- you can't believe what these people say. You know, they're -- they're -- they're basically just harassing me for you.Q. So your --A. So that you can have your one e-mail that says, "Hey, I was interested in the Golden Ass." So you got it.Q. So it's your judgment that he was not a journalist or a writer?A. It's my judgment he was a Nigerian scammer.Q. And not a -- not a journalist or a writer?A. No, because I looked -- I -- I did research of him afterwards and I found that he had set up -- like a CIA agent or something -- he had set up accounts all over the internet that were completely empty except for pictures of asses, donkey asses.You think this is funny?Q. Ma'am, if the telephone -- excuse me, if thePage 39, lines 1-25camera were on me, I -- I would not be showing amusement. I think everyone here could testify separately.My question to you is, Mr. Charles said that he found you by searching for the Golden Ass. Do you recall that?A. Yes.Q. And --A. I -- I mean, I don't remember what he said. He said something about the Golden Ass.Could I take a break? I -- I'm all out of water and I need to go to the restroom.Q. Yes, let's take a break. In the interest of time, could we keep it strictly to five?Thank you very much.THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at 3:46.(Recess)Page 67, lines 1-25MR. BOSWORTH: All right. Thank you.BY MR. BOSWORTH:Q. Ms. Carreon, I jumped right into any number of matters because of the circumstances of the time that we began this, 3:04, and the time that we have, so I need to go backwards on a few things.I want to make sure that I've said to you that, if you don't understand my question, ask me to repeat it or rephrase it.A. (Indicating).Q. You're nodding your head that that's -- you're in agreement with that; correct?I'm sorry. The reporter needs you to say yes or no.A. Yes.Q. Thank you.A. I guess.Q. Tell me what concerns you have.A. I have the concern that you hired Onwuama Charles to hassle me and I would like to know on the record whether you did that or not.Q. Do you have any --A. Are you going to answer it? Can't you just say --Hey, you know what, under federal rules of civilPage 68, lines 1-25procedure, you know, you not denying it is an admission, so I will take that as an admission that you hired Onwuama Charles to harass me on the Internet.Q. Do you take any medicine that would affect your ability to testify today?A. No, I don't.Q. What about any substances?A. Nothing.Q. So are there any questions that I've asked you earlier that you didn't understand or you'd like me to repeat or rephrase?A. No.Q. Okay. Do you have any medical condition of any kind that prevents you from --A. No. I'm very healthy.Q. -- that prevents you from understanding questions or giving accurate answers?A. No. I'm extremely intelligent.Q. All right. Would you state and spell your full name for the record?A. Tara Lyn Carreon. T-a-r-a L-y-n C-a-r-r-e-o-n.Q. Okay. And what is your address?A. 2165 South Avenida Planeta, Tucson, Arizona, 85710, the same address as in the last depo.Q. I have the impression that that's only about anPage 89, lines 1-25I also have events -- weekly events. I have five events a month for the physical library. I clean house for those events. I make food for those events. I have -- you know, have also liaisoned with various organizations to have events at the library.I have gone outside the library to have events with -- with our library members at like the park for purposes of like the -- the occupy movement. I -- I do, you know, advertising. You know, I have meet-up groups that I organize.So is that enough?Q. Only if it's everything.A. Everything that I can think of up to this moment.Q. All right. I'm confirming that there are no other employees. Correct?A. No other employees.Q. And are there other volunteers -- or are there volunteers, I'm sorry, for other. Are there volunteers?A. No, there aren't.Q. There was --A. Onwuama Charles was not a volunteer.Q. Understood.A. He pretended to be a volunteer.Q. Understood.That was a program --Page 90, lines 1-25A. After he got all of the information, which I figured that he'd funneled to you guys after he -- he asked for PDFs after he got my -- my agreement that I had made for him to keep all of this stuff quiet. I assume that you got everything, you know, even though he promised not to give it to anybody.Q. Well, let's stop right there and talk about that for a minute.What do you mean, he got PDFs? More than one PDF?A. Yes. He was going to be my library assistant and put books up on -- you know, and -- and form -- he was going to edit. Edit text is what he was going to do.Q. Okay. So what PDF or PDFs did he get if you know?A. I sent him the PDFs for the Rise of the Third Reich.Q. All right. Anything else?A. The Fall and Rise of the Third Reich.No, that's it.Q. And then you said that he got an agreement. Tell -- I'm -- I'm sorry. I don't know what that is.A. I wrote him a -- I wrote him an agreement that he signed and gave me his ID -- photo IDS to say that he would not use any of the knowledge that he got from me aboutPage 91, lines 1-25formatting, et cetera, with anybody else.And is this your way of now like getting these things again?Q. I mean, it may be that I have to ask some questions about knowledge of formatting because I don't -- I -- I think as we talk about how do the Works --By the way, almost always when I say works, I'm referring to the four titles --A. I assumed that.Q. Okay. The four titles that are --A. I'm not talking about anything else.Q. Okay. I just have to finish this for the record so that we're all on the same page.So when I talk about the Works, unless you have a question, I'll be talking --A. Well, then nothing that I said to Onwuama Charles is relevant because he didn't work on any of the four works.Q. Okay. When we talked about the copyright notice before, there was the phrase there about literary works. And I want to confirm for you that you understood that I was not referring only to the four Penguin titles. Correct?A. I have no idea of what you're talking about.Q. Okay. When we looked at the copyright notice, the language of the copyright notice --A. Uh-huh.IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURTFOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONAPENGUIN GROUP (USA) INCORPORATED,Plaintiff,v.AMERICAN BUDDHA,Defendants.No. CV-13-02075-TUC-JGZVIDEOTAPE DEPOSITION OF TARA CARREON, VOL. IITucson, Arizona October 8, 2014 11:09 a.m.REPORTED BY: Thomas A. Woppert, RPR AZ CCR No. 50476KATHY FINK & ASSOCIATES 28189 East 22nd Street Tucson, Arizona 85713 (520) 624-8644Page 113, lines 1-25And we covered some ground yesterday in the time that we did have. What I wanted to ask at the outset is, I don't know whether you've had a chance to think about your answers, but is there anything that upon reflection you would change from your testimony yesterday?A. No. I would maybe add a couple of job descriptions that I had.Q. Okay.A. That I remembered.Q. All right.A. I also worked in Los Angeles as the lead paralegal on a big case against Mobil Oil Corporation on behalf of 640 plaintiffs. I was the paralegal in charge of -- of reviewing about 100,000 documents.Q. Okay.A. And that was, I think, the only one.Q. All right. Is there any other matter that you would change or disagree with or add to that you can think of?A. Well, yes. I would like to strongly object to what you had me do yesterday as far as opening and closing browsers, opening and closing files, opening and closing internet connections that I -- around 5:00 o'clock in the morning, I realized what an absolute abuse of me that was and I got up and I looked for a definition of deposition onPage 114, lines 1-25the Internet, a legal definition, and nowhere in here does it say that somebody can just, you know, use your body to do this, that and the other. It's a matter of asking questions. And I would like to severely complain about that. I did not appreciate that at all. I felt that it was abusive.Q. Are there any answers or responses that you gave that you would change from yesterday?A. I -- since you did bring up the Onwuama Charles, I did do some more research and I printed out every e-mail that he sent me, that we had between him, and I just wanted to show you a couple of things about the two different Onwuama Charleses that I discovered, the two different faces, one of them on his Google+ page having a prominent picture on the very front of a golden ass, literally a golden ass, a donkey's ass. So if you'd like to make copies of all of these e-mails, you certainly can.And, you know, I would like to ask you again whether this Onwuama Charles is one of your guys.Here's the ass on his page, which is very peculiar, Onwuama Charles. This is the Onwuama Charles. There's only one on the Internet with the golden ass, but the Onwuama Charles who signed up with me was this guy, which is a completely different guy. So Onwuama Charles is Onwuama Ihunanya, I-h-u-n-a-n-y-a. And so I would like toPage 115, lines 1-25ask you again whether -- because since he was the only one who ever asked me about the Golden Ass, whoever even mentioned it, and no one has mentioned it since, since he signed up on the day after I posted the library assistant position, and no one has ever signed up for -- has ever contacted me about that again, he seems to have been created specifically for you.Q. All right. Well, the record will reflect that we will take those and we'll make a complete copy.A. Okay.Q. Thank you.A. (Indicating).Q. Thank you.A. And here's the definition of dictionary -- of -- of deposition.Q. Okay.MR. CARREON: This is a small matter. I -- I gave Mr. Cunningham a -- a thumb drive yesterday to produce some --THE WITNESS: Oh, I wanted --MR. CARREON: -- documents --THE WITNESS: -- to ask that, too.MR. CARREON: -- and he retained it. It was a rather costly one. I sent him an e-mail requesting it, mentioning that. That will be my only comment today.Page 116, lines 1-18BY MR. BOSWORTH:Q. Is there any other -- is there any other change in your testimony yesterday that you've reflected upon?A. No.Q. Your testimony yesterday was accurate and -- and complete and there's nothing --A. Yes.Q. -- further to add?A. Yes.Q. I think with that we can close this personal deposition and open up the 30(b)(6) deposition. So unless there are any other comments, Mr. Sullivan, we will move on and we will swear the witness and begin a 30(b)(6) deposition.MR. SULLIVAN: Nothing to add at this point.MR. BOSWORTH: Thank you.(11:15 a.m.)IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURTFOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONAPENGUIN GROUP (USA) INCORPORATED,Plaintiff,v.AMERICAN BUDDHA,Defendants.No. CV-13-02075-TUC-JGZVIDEOTAPE 30 (b) (6) DEPOSITION OF TARA CARREON, VOL. ITucson, Arizona October 8, 2014 11:15 a.m.REPORTED BY: Thomas A. Woppert, RPR AZ CCR No. 50476KATHY FINK & ASSOCIATES 28189 East 22nd Street Tucson, Arizona 85713 (520) 624-8644Page 8, lines 1-25today's deposition.A. A conversation, yeah. I'm not going to talk to you about it.Q. Okay. That's all I'm trying to establish.A. I thought I already said that.Q. I didn't get that. And it may be that --A. Now can we go on?Q. It may be that the record reflects that, but I didn't understand you to say that in fact you had a conversation.And you're not willing to tell me whether or not you've spoken with Mr. Sullivan, is that correct?A. I have not spoken to Mr. Sullivan, okay?Q. Okay. Any other documents --A. Oh, actually, I -- I have. I have. I've -- I've e-mailed him. I'm not going to tell you what I've e-mailed him.Q. Okay. Any other documents that you've reviewed in preparation for today?A. Just those.Q. Oh, I'm sorry. The additional documents you've handed here --A. Yes.Q. -- with regard to Mr. Onwuama. Okay. Thank you.A. I think his real name is Am-a-own-u Charles, is hisPage 9, lines 1-25real name, Am-a-own-u. It's pig latin.Q. Okay. And his last name is Charles, Mr. Charles, yes. Yes, I understand.Okay. What I would like to do, and I hope you can -- this will work for you, is, in order to save us time, I've asked you before about your testimony yesterday and I'd ask you in this context, in this deposition now, were I to ask you the identical questions here, would you answer in the same way you answered yesterday?A. Yes, but I hope you do not ask me the same questions that I -- that you asked me yesterday. It would take way too much time.Q. Well, that's exactly what I'm trying to accomplish here. I'm trying to have you agree that your answers yesterday --A. Yes. I don't have one true answer today and another completely opposite one tomorrow.Q. Okay. What I'm trying to do is ask if I can avoid repeating questions.A. Yes, you most definitely can avoid it.Q. And I can do that if in fact your answers today would be identical --A. Yes, they would be identical.Q. -- to your answers yesterday.A. Yes.Page 100, lines 1-25A. Yes. And you've affirmed that yourself by saying that every single word that's in the book is on the websites.Q. And again confirming, you personally put the Works on the website. Would that be accurate?A. We keep talking about these -- you know, these characterizations --Q. Okay.A. -- and I keep insisting on speaking the language of -- of -- of technicalities.Q. All right.A. So I -- you know, I publish the works so that the files are on the server.Q. Okay. And I'm saying that's something that you have done on behalf of American Buddha.A. I've already answered that. Yes.Q. Okay. The answer is yes? That's all I'm trying to confirm so I can wrap some things up. The answer is yes?A. Yes.Q. Thank you.Okay. And I know that you don't have statistics or counts of people who have accessed various works, but you have some information that people have accessed the Works in question from your conversation?A. No, I have -- I have never seen any of the WorksPage 101, lines 1-25accessed. I've never seen any data as to any of the Works being accessed.Q. All right. And would that include Mr. Charles?A. What's that mean?Q. Do you have information about whether Mr. Charles -- or an understanding of whether Mr. Charles accessed --A. Who is Mr. Charles?Q. Well, I thought that's what we decided his last name was.A. Charles Onwuama, are we talking about him again?Q. I thought it was Onwuama Charles.A. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's a good question because on the internet he says one thing, on the -- on his ID he says another and in his e-mails he says something different.Q. So --A. Who knows whether it's Onwuama Charles, Charles Onwuama. He just calls himself Charles. It's actually that other name, you know -- you know, two different -- you know.Q. Understood.A. Whatever that person is, we have no idea.Q. All right. And that was my question, is whatever that person is, are you saying you don't have any understanding that he accessed the Golden Ass?A. No. What did he say, I came to you looking forPage 102, lines 1-25it. Didn't he say something like that?Q. Okay.A. Is that what he's saying? I mean, what does that mean? That doesn't say that he actually accessed -- accessed any parts of it.Q. No, I understand. And I -- I haven't been able to look at the material that you provided.A. The first -- you know, the -- the e-mail that we provided to you previously, his -- his first e-mail, spells it out completely. He never references the Golden Ass after that.Q. Okay. All right. Yeah, that was my question, is whether you had some information about whether he had accessed it.Excuse me one moment. I've done something wrong. I've left my phone on.So take as a file, say, the table of contents. If you're looking --A. He said he browsed the web for a copy of it and found the library. That's all he said.Q. Okay. And the rest of your conversations didn't further --A. No, nothing.Q. You've got to wait for my last -- I have to start all over again. Yeah, but I -- I appreciate that, you know