US shutdown

Who's going to blink?

Also the House has approved a budget but the Senate hasn't yet. Next week I believe the Democrats take over the House, with the GOP increasing its majority in the Senate. If the new Senate approves the old House's budget is that it? Or would the old Houses's approval lapse/be cancelled by the new House?

Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

The new Senate can't approve the old House budget; as you guessed it's a new legislative term and it's not bound by unpassed legislation in the last one.

This is a really stupid fight. A "shutdown" in which 90% of the government keeps doing what it's doing, while everyone fights over a symbolic funding line-item that accounts for .1% of the federal budget on something that will take years to build.

Also the House has approved a budget but the Senate hasn't yet. Next week I believe the Democrats take over the House, with the GOP increasing its majority in the Senate. If the new Senate approves the old House's budget is that it? Or would the old Houses's approval lapse/be cancelled by the new House?

Even if the new Senate could approve the old House's budget (and it can't), they still don't have the votes to pass it. They COULD force it through right now if all the Republicans really wanted to. But it's not worth it to them. Dread is right about it being a really stupid fight, but the fix is easy. Take the wall out. The Republicans know they're not going to get the funding they'll need to KEEP the construction going to completion anyway.

Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

...This is a really stupid fight. A "shutdown" in which 90% of the government keeps doing what it's doing, while everyone fights over a symbolic funding line-item that accounts for .1% of the federal budget on something that will take years to build.

Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

...Dread is right about it being a really stupid fight, but the fix is easy. Take the wall out. The Republicans know they're not going to get the funding they'll need to KEEP the construction going to completion anyway.

Yep, Trump's Wall is a really stupid fight. But not totally unexpected with a "leader" and "negotiator" like him. His ego is so outrageous and delusional that he'll say on camera in the Oval Office that he'd be PROUD to shut down the gov't, and OWN it....then turn around and blame it on Democrats.

It's bad enough that Trump wants to fight over $5 Billion dedicated to a Wall (that he can't define), but the symbolism is more than a line-item budget dispute. He wants to undo decades of refugee/asylum immigration laws, and return to the isolation (and racism) of previous centuries. He's just changed the language about *which* people we should *keep out*.

I'm surprised more people don't see through his Nationalism and national security tactics! But maybe this shutdown will expose at least some of his lies and hypocrisies? (Shame that federal workers have to suffer in the meantime, though.) MAGA!

This is really on both parties. Both are looking for a rhetorical win on an issue that doesn't cost much money or radically change the policy landscape. I find the Democratic position equally dishonest in preaching the "morality" of open borders while saying a wall would be ineffective.

This is really on both parties. Both are looking for a rhetorical win on an issue that doesn't cost much money or radically change the policy landscape. I find the Democratic position equally dishonest in preaching the "morality" of open borders while saying a wall would be ineffective.

Why? Like Rand, I've long supported open borders and the free movement of people. It's just good sensible policy. That's not going to stop me from pointing out that physical and technological barriers are an incredibly stupid way to try and control a 1700-mile long land border as well. Even if I don't agree with a policy, I still think the money spent on it should at least be spent effectively.

Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

This is really on both parties. Both are looking for a rhetorical win on an issue that doesn't cost much money or radically change the policy landscape. I find the Democratic position equally dishonest in preaching the "morality" of open borders while saying a wall would be ineffective.

I realize you get all your news from Trump nowadays, but the Democrats do not and have not supported open borders. Treating illegal immigrants humanely != supporting open borders.

Why? Like Rand, I've long supported open borders and the free movement of people. It's just good sensible policy. That's not going to stop me from pointing out that physical and technological barriers are an incredibly stupid way to try and control a 1700-mile long land border as well. Even if I don't agree with a policy, I still think the money spent on it should at least be spent effectively.

Precisely. Especially when it was Trump's policy that Mexico was going to pay for the wall anyway. Why should Congress spend billions on a wall that the Mexicans are going to pay for?

Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

Why? Like Rand, I've long supported open borders and the free movement of people. It's just good sensible policy. That's not going to stop me from pointing out that physical and technological barriers are an incredibly stupid way to try and control a 1700-mile long land border as well. Even if I don't agree with a policy, I still think the money spent on it should at least be spent effectively.

Why does nobody ask us Germans about such a wall? We can tell you exactly what it entails to actually work: Trained attack dogs, mine fields and guard posts with orders to shoot on sight.

And you'll of course rack up a body count - but that doesn't count, of course, it's only brown people. /s

When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?

No way they'll be able to man and patrol a 1700 mile wall the way the Berlin wall was.

Sticks and stones take a toll on me but they aren't your strongest weaponryYou can take your shots but you'd best prepare, I can see smoke rising in the airEvery move has a counteract, to turn the tides with a planned attackYou push me down and the rest will rise but first I'm singing a battle cry

Sticks and stones take a toll on me but they aren't your strongest weaponryYou can take your shots but you'd best prepare, I can see smoke rising in the airEvery move has a counteract, to turn the tides with a planned attackYou push me down and the rest will rise but first I'm singing a battle cry

Why does nobody ask us Germans about such a wall? We can tell you exactly what it entails to actually work: Trained attack dogs, mine fields and guard posts with orders to shoot on sight.

And you'll of course rack up a body count - but that doesn't count, of course, it's only brown people. /s

A bit of a different scenario after all. The wall there was to keep people in. The wall here is to keep people out. Yes that evil despotic country called America is so wretched and racist... millions of Hispanics are clamoring to get in.

This is really on both parties. Both are looking for a rhetorical win on an issue that doesn't cost much money or radically change the policy landscape. I find the Democratic position equally dishonest in preaching the "morality" of open borders while saying a wall would be ineffective.

Uh, the Trump admin. is definitely changing policy. From family separation and child detention, to definitions of refugees/asylum and family reunification ("chain migration"), and reduced numbers of refugees we accept each year.

Trump is fighting for a metaphor to appease "his base", and/or Limbaugh, Coulter, and Hannity. Then expects his random $5 Billion will be approved? He didn't even put that in his budget, but now it's worth shutting down the gov't?

And I don't know what "open borders" actually means, but pretty sure it's being (mis)used to demonize Democrats.

then again, his wife's work isn't related to NATO, so go figure. Just more inept lashing out by a tantrum throwing toddler.

It is funny because the twits were about to board the plane. That's the both frustrating and great thing about Trump, he always hits back. Great when the target is Pelosi, not so much when its the family of a KIA soldier. She tried to rain on the State of the Union so Trump strikes back, both actions are pretty petty but you can be sure if someone hits Trump he'll push back.

It is funny because the twits were about to board the plane. That's the both frustrating and great thing about Trump, he always hits back. Great when the target is Pelosi, not so much when its the family of a KIA soldier. She tried to rain on the State of the Union so Trump strikes back, both actions are pretty petty but you can be sure if someone hits Trump he'll push back.

Trump ensured that a lot of money, time and effort was wasted, and obviously he doesn't want congress to repair the bridges he's trying to burn.

“Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
— Bill Gates

The rest of the developed world can only look on at stuff like this and think: WTF America? <snip Tweet>

Surprised?! The US might be the largest economy in the world, with low unemployment and other "good-looking" data....but most people live paycheck-to-paycheck (I've seen numbers as high as 78%). We also have a ton of debt in home mortgages, car loans, school loans, credit cards, pay-day advances, etc.

A disturbing number of folks (more than 40% iirc) don't have $400 cash to pay for any emergency expense. Since we don't have Universal Health Care, that emergency can mean a trip to the doctor's office and/or the ER (or renewing an Insulin Rx). We don't have a very good, comprehensive public transportation system (across all states), so that emergency can mean your car breaks down, and you can't get to work. And since we don't have affordable child care, working parents absolutely rely on their paychecks....well, you see the vicious cycle.

The typical American lifestyle looks great, until you scratch the surface and find that so many millions live "close-to-the-bone" that it's practically an illusion.

Surprised?! The US might be the largest economy in the world, with low unemployment and other "good-looking" data....but most people live paycheck-to-paycheck (I've seen numbers as high as 78%). We also have a ton of debt in home mortgages, car loans, school loans, credit cards, pay-day advances, etc.

Sounds like the new economy. :P

I'm trying to prevent this to happen in my country but I'm about to give up.
It might not be remotely as bad considering we still got decent public service etc. but I'm concerned and don't know what to turn to.