Been listening to the ESPN Talking heads this morning and their discussion on the ROTY ... they barely mention Russell Wilson.

Colin Cowherd: Only discussed RGIII and Andrew Luck. His guest (Hasselbeck) says Andrew Luck was asked to do more and RGIII was only asked to put the ball in the belly of his RB and look at the Linebackers. That's the extend of what RGIII was asked to do, according to those guys. They say ... Interceptions don't matter as much as people want to talk about.

Mike and Mike: I didn't catch the whole show, but the last hour I caught, they discussed Andrew Luck and RGII. They said Russell Wilson was a nice story, but that's about it. Only Mike Gorlich was on. The other Mike was replaced by someone else. Ron Joworsky came on and say he was surprised by the play of Russell Wilson ... that's about it.

I think the Lame Stream Media has already made up their mind and Russell Wilson is NOT in their discussion ...

***NEWS FLASH*** Seattle is still in BFE and "the Big Boys" cater to the East Coast/Big market media. Luck and RG3 were given the keys to the car right out of the gate. Russell had to earn everything from the starting job, to more freedom in the offense. The thing I'm most shocked about is that no one is mentioning that he was a 3rd round pick that came in and took a team that no one had in the playoffs to an 11-5 record. Screw ESPN and/or all others that think Hawk fans are still sleeping when they are force feeding their mainstream point of view. RW wont win, please don't be shocked though he's not in enough Subway commercials.

Correction on the Cowherd show. He clarified that he wasn't giving it to either one of RG3 or Luck as he doesn't give a rip about awards. He was just interjecting into the discussion that it should be close and then argued why (lets not argue why here). His other guy on the radio that was then arguing against him said RW should be in the discussion. Colin said he completely agrees but funny thing is they kept breaking down Luck vs RG3.....

Colin made the good point with RG3 that first half of the season were bubble screens something about half the passes thrown to players behind the line of scrimmage.

I find this meme about Luck being asked to do more a bit suspect. He led a team that gave up on their season last year back to where they were previously with basically the same talent. Before last years 2-14 season they were 9-7 and in 2009 the went to the Superbowl at 14-2. They are giving Luck way too much credit on this point and basing their choice of him as ROY on it.

Last edited by SeaWolv on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

I see it like this, AL and RG were expected to step in and do well, being the first and second picks. No one gave RW any thought at the start of the year being a third round pick. The fact that RW is even being talked about with the two first round picks indicates the he had to do far more to get considered...therefor should get the nod for ROTY.

Luck's campaign for ROY is entirely based on the turn around the Colts experienced this season. I'm really not impressed at all by their -30 point differential. If their 11-5 record was 7-9 or so like their below-average point differential would indicate, I'm sure Luck would get far less votes.

And I think Russell Wilson has a good shot at that one. Far better than Luck or RGIII, that's for sure.

Oh, and considering that RGIII made a terrible awful horrible UW defense look like a roster full of All-Pro beasts in the Alamo Bowl, I'm not worried about the Redskins. RGIII doesn't scare me one bit. He's just another supremely gifted athlete trying to play QB. I'd rather have a gifted QB. I watched Cunningham and Vick, two of the most gifted athletes in the history of the NFL, but they never lived up to their gifts as QBs. Then you look at Montana, Brady, Brees, and Elway. Some of the most awkward non-athletic QBs to ever play. They all did pretty good. We're going to destroy the Redskins, and RW is going to play a big role in that. I can't wait until Sunday. It will be the ultimate award, and one that I, as a fan, get to actually enjoy. Let Redskin fans brag about a ROTY award. I'd rather brag about my QB winning a playoff game.

HansGruber wrote:Oh, and considering that RGIII made a terrible awful horrible UW defense look like a roster full of All-Pro beasts in the Alamo Bowl, I'm not worried about the Redskins. RGIII doesn't scare me one bit.

And I think Russell Wilson has a good shot at that one. Far better than Luck or RGIII, that's for sure.

Oh, and considering that RGIII made a terrible awful horrible UW defense look like a roster full of All-Pro beasts in the Alamo Bowl, I'm not worried about the Redskins. RGIII doesn't scare me one bit. He's just another supremely gifted athlete trying to play QB. I'd rather have a gifted QB. I watched Cunningham and Vick, two of the most gifted athletes in the history of the NFL, but they never lived up to their gifts as QBs. Then you look at Montana, Brady, Brees, and Elway. Some of the most awkward non-athletic QBs to ever play. They all did pretty good. We're going to destroy the Redskins, and RW is going to play a big role in that. I can't wait until Sunday. It will be the ultimate award, and one that I, as a fan, get to actually enjoy. Let Redskin fans brag about a ROTY award. I'd rather brag about my QB winning a playoff game.

Other than the reference to the Dawg D, I agree with your every word (didn't Baylor put 777 yds on us?). Griffin is a supremely talented athlete. That doesn't necessarily translate to franchise QB. If it did, Bo Jackson would have played QB and would have been better than Montana.

Baylor, with the departure of Griffin, was picked to finish last in their conference. They barely missed a beat. Washington, IMO, look *better with Cousins than Griffin. Better as in not so NCAA-like.

IMO, he is a gimmick player like Vick or even Tebow. Look at the red gun, the wild cat, ad nauseum. Gimmicks don't last long in the NFL. I like the heck out of the kid and wish him well. He is already starting to feel the NFL and will be exposed on Sunday, IMO. The only thing that really concerns me regarding Griffin, is the bevy of picks STL got for the rights to him. That scares the bejesus out of me.

And I think Russell Wilson has a good shot at that one. Far better than Luck or RGIII, that's for sure.

Oh, and considering that RGIII made a terrible awful horrible UW defense look like a roster full of All-Pro beasts in the Alamo Bowl, I'm not worried about the Redskins. RGIII doesn't scare me one bit. He's just another supremely gifted athlete trying to play QB. I'd rather have a gifted QB. I watched Cunningham and Vick, two of the most gifted athletes in the history of the NFL, but they never lived up to their gifts as QBs. Then you look at Montana, Brady, Brees, and Elway. Some of the most awkward non-athletic QBs to ever play. They all did pretty good. We're going to destroy the Redskins, and RW is going to play a big role in that. I can't wait until Sunday. It will be the ultimate award, and one that I, as a fan, get to actually enjoy. Let Redskin fans brag about a ROTY award. I'd rather brag about my QB winning a playoff game.

Other than the reference to the Dawg D, I agree with your every word (didn't Baylor put 777 yds on us?). Griffin is a supremely talented athlete. That doesn't necessarily translate to franchise QB. If it did, Bo Jackson would have played QB and would have been better than Montana.

Baylor, with the departure of Griffin, was picked to finish last in their conference. They barely missed a beat. Washington, IMO, look *better with Cousins than Griffin. Better as in not so NCAA-like.

IMO, he is a gimmick player like Vick or even Tebow. Look at the red gun, the wild cat, ad nauseum. Gimmicks don't last long in the NFL. I like the heck out of the kid and wish him well. He is already starting to feel the NFL and will be exposed on Sunday, IMO. The only thing that really concerns me regarding Griffin, is the bevy of picks STL got for the rights to him. That scares the bejesus out of me.

Dietrich wrote:Luck's campaign for ROY is entirely based on the turn around the Colts experienced this season. I'm really not impressed at all by their -30 point differential. If their 11-5 record was 7-9 or so like their below-average point differential would indicate, I'm sure Luck would get far less votes.

As I stated above their record is far more about the team quitting last year than Luck doing something extra extraordinary.

HawkWow wrote:Other than the reference to the Dawg D, I agree with your every word (didn't Baylor put 777 yds on us?).

Did you watch the game, or just read the stat line?

Trust me, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't watch the game. The only reason I did was because at that point, everyone thought Barkley was going #2 and Griffin might fall to us somehow (or we'd trade up for him).

My grandmother's badminton team could have put up 100 points on the 2011 Husky defense. They were what, the 3rd worst defense in the NCAA? You can thank Nick Holt for that Baylor win. That's exactly what alumni and directorship did when they canned Holt.

RGIII looked terrible in the Alamo Bowl. In fact, Baylor stopped throwing the ball completely and told Griffin to stop running after one of his fumbles gave an early lead back to the Huskies. It was the Baylor RB who ran for 5 TDs that gave Baylor all those points and the win. Griffin got owned by the Huskies.

This is funny. RW is an athletic QB as well yet he isnt Michael Vick like lol. Rg3 is atheltic yet he's another gimick QB or Michael Vick. A gimick qb back who statistically outclasses RW is everyway except total TD, and he;s only two back from that despite missing 1.5 games.

Every analyst on T or websites has said that Rg3 is more Steve Young than Rg3...but you guys know best since you all have access to coaches film.

rdskns4eva wrote:This is funny. RW is an athletic QB as well yet he isnt Michael Vick like lol. Rg3 is atheltic yet he's another gimick QB or Michael Vick. A gimick qb back who statistically outclasses RW is everyway except total TD, and he;s only two back from that despite missing 1.5 games.

Every analyst on T or websites has said that Rg3 is more Steve Young than Rg3...but you guys know best since you all have access to coaches film.

This topic is funny.

What's funny is all the Redskins fans digging their heads into the sand while their "star" QB gets himself injured in his first season and can't even start when they need him most (during a "playoff run" in the softest weakest division in the NFL).

I'm wondering if you plan on showing up here Monday, and if you'll be man enough to eat your crow after Seattle ends your postseason dreams for the third straight time. Seems like we start every postseason with a stomping of some pathetic NFC Least team like the Skins or Girls.

Griffin will be facing a tougher defense than he's seen this entire season, and I can't wait to watch him take off running and meet one of our Legion of Boom head-to-head. Hell, I can't wait to watch him drop back and meet Irvin or Clemons and pull his typical fumble routine. He won't be as lucky with our ball-hawks getting those back.

The Legion of Boom WANTS you to keep running. They like to hit people. Gronk, Witten and Vernon Davis can attest. They like to shell-shock your team's biggest players, get 'em scared and hearing things. A running QB? Oooooh, that's like candy in a fat camp. Trust me, you don't want to be that candy when the big kids come running.

Someone needs to remind Griffin that the same rules apply to a running QB that apply to a RB. Head shots are legal.

I'm not wishing injury on anyone and I personally don't want to see it. I literally cringe when I see those hits, but it's a reality in the NFL and it's already happened once this season. With the way Griffin runs, it's a real concern. Someone on that coaching staff needs to get in his ear.

HansGruber wrote:Someone needs to remind Griffin that the same rules apply to a running QB that apply to a RB. Head shots are legal.

I'm not wishing injury on anyone and I personally don't want to see it. I literally cringe when I see those hits, but it's a reality in the NFL and it's already happened once this season. With the way Griffin runs, it's a real concern. Someone on that coaching staff needs to get in his ear.

Yeah and we have LB's that can actually run with him...he's putting his career in jeopardy every time he keeps it on the read option, or tucks it to scramble...

I know this will not be a popular opinion but RG3 should get the nod for ROTY. Like him or not he is having a great year. He has better all around stats and no one was picking the skins to make playoffs either. There I said it. Easy with the pitchforks. With that said I would rather have RW as a franchise QB. He is a better pocket passer and KNOW WHEN TO SLIDE. RG3 has proven that he will get hurt frequently. I want a QB that will be playing not sitting on the sideline. IMHO pure running quarterbacks don't win super bowls. RW is a throw first type quarterback with some great wheels for elusiveness. That is what wins long term. So while RG3 is having a great YEAR, RW is having a great start to a great CAREER. GO HAWKS.

Year of The Hawk wrote:I know this will not be a popular opinion but RG3 should get the nod for ROTY. Like him or not he is having a great year. He has better all around stats and no one was picking the skins to make playoffs either. There I said it. Easy with the pitchforks. With that said I would rather have RW as a franchise QB. He is a better pocket passer and KNOW WHEN TO SLIDE. RG3 has proven that he will get hurt frequently. I want a QB that will be playing not sitting on the sideline. IMHO pure running quarterbacks don't win super bowls. RW is a throw first type quarterback with some great wheels for elusiveness. That is what wins long term. So while RG3 is having a great YEAR, RW is having a great start to a great CAREER. GO HAWKS.

actually, RG3 and Wilson have almost identical stats with Wilson having more total TDs. If anything, I wouldn't complain if they were co-OROY.

All that talk about Husky D vs RGIII reminded me of a very young Oregon Ducks D beating up on Luck last year. Luck threw fsomething like 256 yards and three touchdowns with two interceptions and a fumble. If I remember correctly most of those yards where towards the end of the game when the Ducks had a 20+ point lead. Pretty much what I am getting at is, Luck is good but not all of what the talking heads make him out to be. Wait till next year when everyone has him figured out. Out of all three young QB's, I'm predicting Luck to have the sophmore slump more then anyone else.

rdskns4eva wrote:This is funny. RW is an athletic QB as well yet he isnt Michael Vick like lol. Rg3 is atheltic yet he's another gimick QB or Michael Vick. A gimick qb back who statistically outclasses RW is everyway except total TD, and he;s only two back from that despite missing 1.5 games.

Every analyst on T or websites has said that Rg3 is more Steve Young than Rg3...but you guys know best since you all have access to coaches film.

This topic is funny.

Umm...what?!

Wilson is an athletic QB, RG3 is an athlete playing QB.

Why not try watching Wilson before you spout off about his stats being inferior to RG3 and you will realize that stats don't matter. Wilson wasn't allowed to throw the ball until week 8 and he's not that far behing RG3 in any stat other than rushing yards, which you can have. I would much rather Wilson throw the ball and stay protected than run and get his knee jacked up (see: RG3). RG3 isn't a gimmick QB, imo. But his stats come from screen passes. The only thing he has to do is watch LBers. After the ball gets hiked, he either hands it off, throws a screen or throws it deep. OR he will take off running the second his first option isn't available. He's good and he's going to get better but he's not as advanced as Wilson.

The inferiority complex of Redskins fans is what's really funny. They come onto our boards to trash our 3rd round QB. Hmmm...I wonder if they would rather be in our position? Use just 1 3rd round draft pick for a franchise QB or sacrifice 3 drafts for one...?

Oh well, they will soon see how good of a QB Wilson really is. They can look at his stats page until they are blue in the face and won't realize how advanced this kid at the QB position until they see him carve up their D on Sunday.

ROTY should be between Wilson and RG3. Luck has done very well this season, and I enjoy watching him play. But I'm sorry, a QB who leads the league in turnovers shoulnd't get ROTY honors.

Wilson has been very good this year, but outside of his MONSTER December, he's been good but not elite. RG3 is ahead of Wilson in every single statistical category. RG3 is better than Wilson in QB rating, Passer rating, total passing yards, total rushing yards, Completion percentage, average yards per pass, and TD/INT ratio. There is not a single QB stat where Wilson is better than RG3. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. see all the stats for yourselves... http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... asontype/2

And unlike Andrew Luck fans who argue that RG3 benefits from a strong running game, seattle can't can't say that, because they've got Marshawn Lynch, the 2nd best running back in the NFL. Seahawks lead the NFL in rushing attempts, with 56% of their offensive plays being runs.

In no way am I downing Wilson at all, in fact he's been my favorite QB to watch this year outside of RG3 and Payton Manning. But RG3 has been consistent all year, where as Wilson didn't get red hot until December.

If you set aside your Seahawks fanboyism, and if I put down my Redskins fanboyism, and together we just look at raw stats and productivity, RG3 has had a slightly better season than Wilson. I wish Wilson, Luck, and RG3 the best of luck in their careers. But RG3 has been the best of the 3 in this their rookie season.

If you were to put RW or RGIII in Indy, do you think either one of them have the type of seasons they are having? Not likely. Both of these QBs benefit from having great rushing attacks and that takes a ton of pressure off a young QB.

I'll take RGIII over RW any day of the week, but I would give my nod to OROY (offensive rookie of year) to RW or Alfred Morris. Why? Because quite simply RGIII hasn't finished 2 games this season due to injury and sat out a complete game. The Redskins have shown that they can win without RGIII, but what they haven't shown is they can win without Alfred Morris. This rookie RB has broken Clinton Portis franchise record for most yards in a season, and finished second in the NFL in rushing yards. How in the hell did this guy not make the pro-bowl?....lol

rdskns4eva wrote:This is funny. RW is an athletic QB as well yet he isnt Michael Vick like lol. Rg3 is atheltic yet he's another gimick QB or Michael Vick. A gimick qb back who statistically outclasses RW is everyway except total TD, and he;s only two back from that despite missing 1.5 games.

Every analyst on T or websites has said that Rg3 is more Steve Young than Rg3...but you guys know best since you all have access to coaches film.

This topic is funny.

Umm...what?!

Wilson is an athletic QB, RG3 is an athlete playing QB.

Why not try watching Wilson before you spout off about his stats being inferior to RG3 and you will realize that stats don't matter. Wilson wasn't allowed to throw the ball until week 8 and he's not that far behing RG3 in any stat other than rushing yards, which you can have. I would much rather Wilson throw the ball and stay protected than run and get his knee jacked up (see: RG3). RG3 isn't a gimmick QB, imo. But his stats come from screen passes. The only thing he has to do is watch LBers. After the ball gets hiked, he either hands it off, throws a screen or throws it deep. OR he will take off running the second his first option isn't available. He's good and he's going to get better but he's not as advanced as Wilson.

The inferiority complex of Redskins fans is what's really funny. They come onto our boards to trash our 3rd round QB. Hmmm...I wonder if they would rather be in our position? Use just 1 3rd round draft pick for a franchise QB or sacrifice 3 drafts for one...?

Oh well, they will soon see how good of a QB Wilson really is. They can look at his stats page until they are blue in the face and won't realize how advanced this kid at the QB position until they see him carve up their D on Sunday.

Thats why this is so misinformed. EVerybody says that RG3 is a pocket passer first. EVERYBODY. I havent heard one media person say that RG3 is a Vick clone. Most say he is closer to Steve Young. This isnt Michael Vick. RG3 can pass the ball. He's had two games this year where he was 50% or worse in passing. TWO! He had 11 where is was 60% or better and he had 9 where he was 65% or better. I dont care what kind of offense you run, that is impressive. Vick wishes he had those stats.

And Im not downing RW, but you guys keep saying thtat RG3 is another Vick. Really? Go back and look at Vicks stats in his first and second year. It's night and day. And again, Rg3 overall stats are better than RW despite missing 1.5 games.

Rg3 has proven this year that he can runa traditinal offense. Go back and look at the second eagles game when he ran a grand total of two times. You guys act Like RG3 is carrying the ball 10 times a game. Early in the year he was running alot, but during this 7 game win streak, he's been a pocket passer. He only runs the ball about 4 times on called runs and bout 2 on scrambles.

And he can read defenses but as Trent Dilfer said, the Redskins are the best team in the NFL at getting their primary WR open consistently. What is the point of scanning the field when your primary is wide open? There is no point. Get the ball out quickly, move on to the next play.

SkinsFan46 wrote:If you were to put RW or RGIII in Indy, do you think either one of them have the type of seasons they are having? Not likely. Both of these QBs benefit from having great rushing attacks and that takes a ton of pressure off a young QB.

I'll take RGIII over RW any day of the week, but I would give my nod to OROY (offensive rookie of year) to RW or Alfred Morris. Why? Because quite simply RGIII hasn't finished 2 games this season due to injury and sat out a complete game. The Redskins have shown that they can win without RGIII, but what they haven't shown is they can win without Alfred Morris. This rookie RB has broken Clinton Portis franchise record for most yards in a season, and finished second in the NFL in rushing yards. How in the hell did this guy not make the pro-bowl?....lol

fair point about Luck, and No, i doubt wilson nor RG3 would have had the same success in Indy

but to argue your point about Morris...are you saying Morris does more for RG3 than Lynch does for Wilson? I'd say they benefit evenly. the difference between Lynch and Morris' total rushing yards this season is less than 50 (i think).

And to say that the Redskins proved they could win without RG3...i mean, i guess that's a true statement. But Kirk Cousins went out and beat the crappy Cleveland Browns (yes, i know they were coming in on a 3-game winning streak).

And I know we won't have a chance to find out this year, but I'm sure if Matt Flynn would've come in for Wilson and played against a bad team like the Browns, he mighit've been able to win as well.

And not that it has a direct impact on the offense, but Wilson benefits from having the 2nd best defense in the entire nfl. Redskins defense is ranked 27th overall.

and yeah, LOL @ Gore making the pro bowl over Morris. I think Morris has nearly 300 more rushing yards and 5 more touchdowns than Gore.

HawkWow wrote:Other than the reference to the Dawg D, I agree with your every word (didn't Baylor put 777 yds on us?).

Did you watch the game, or just read the stat line?

Trust me, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't watch the game. The only reason I did was because at that point, everyone thought Barkley was going #2 and Griffin might fall to us somehow (or we'd trade up for him).

My grandmother's badminton team could have put up 100 points on the 2011 Husky defense. They were what, the 3rd worst defense in the NCAA? You can thank Nick Holt for that Baylor win. That's exactly what alumni and directorship did when they canned Holt.

RGIII looked terrible in the Alamo Bowl. In fact, Baylor stopped throwing the ball completely and told Griffin to stop running after one of his fumbles gave an early lead back to the Huskies. It was the Baylor RB who ran for 5 TDs that gave Baylor all those points and the win. Griffin got owned by the Huskies.

You're dead on. RG3 dink and dunked in that game against a terrible defense and didn't run for jack squat. That game was all Terrance Ganaway.

rdskns4eva wrote:This is funny. RW is an athletic QB as well yet he isnt Michael Vick like lol. Rg3 is atheltic yet he's another gimick QB or Michael Vick. A gimick qb back who statistically outclasses RW is everyway except total TD, and he;s only two back from that despite missing 1.5 games.

Every analyst on T or websites has said that Rg3 is more Steve Young than Rg3...but you guys know best since you all have access to coaches film.

This topic is funny.

Umm...what?!

Wilson is an athletic QB, RG3 is an athlete playing QB.

Why not try watching Wilson before you spout off about his stats being inferior to RG3 and you will realize that stats don't matter. Wilson wasn't allowed to throw the ball until week 8 and he's not that far behing RG3 in any stat other than rushing yards, which you can have. I would much rather Wilson throw the ball and stay protected than run and get his knee jacked up (see: RG3). RG3 isn't a gimmick QB, imo. But his stats come from screen passes. The only thing he has to do is watch LBers. After the ball gets hiked, he either hands it off, throws a screen or throws it deep. OR he will take off running the second his first option isn't available. He's good and he's going to get better but he's not as advanced as Wilson.

The inferiority complex of Redskins fans is what's really funny. They come onto our boards to trash our 3rd round QB. Hmmm...I wonder if they would rather be in our position? Use just 1 3rd round draft pick for a franchise QB or sacrifice 3 drafts for one...?

Oh well, they will soon see how good of a QB Wilson really is. They can look at his stats page until they are blue in the face and won't realize how advanced this kid at the QB position until they see him carve up their D on Sunday.

Thats why this is so misinformed. EVerybody says that RG3 is a pocket passer first. EVERYBODY. I havent heard one media person say that RG3 is a Vick clone. Most say he is closer to Steve Young. This isnt Michael Vick. RG3 can pass the ball. He's had two games this year where he was 50% or worse in passing. TWO! He had 11 where is was 60% or better and he had 9 where he was 65% or better. I dont care what kind of offense you run, that is impressive. Vick wishes he had those stats.

And Im not downing RW, but you guys keep saying thtat RG3 is another Vick. Really? Go back and look at Vicks stats in his first and second year. It's night and day. And again, Rg3 overall stats are better than RW despite missing 1.5 games.

Rg3 has proven this year that he can runa traditinal offense. Go back and look at the second eagles game when he ran a grand total of two times. You guys act Like RG3 is carrying the ball 10 times a game. Early in the year he was running alot, but during this 7 game win streak, he's been a pocket passer. He only runs the ball about 4 times on called runs and bout 2 on scrambles.

And he can read defenses but as Trent Dilfer said, the Redskins are the best team in the NFL at getting their primary WR open consistently. What is the point of scanning the field when your primary is wide open? There is no point. Get the ball out quickly, move on to the next play.

I hate the comparisons to Vick, and if I was a Redskins fan it would piss me off even more. All it says to me is that someone is trying to call Griffin a bad QB. First off, Vick has always been a thrower. He has arm talent that rivals anyone, but that doesn't make him an NFL passer. At Baylor Griffin had great accuracy and consistency. It's carried over into the NFL. The comparisons are as lazy as you can get, even for fans.

Honestly, as a Seahawk fan I care more that our 3rd round QB is actually in the ROY discussion. Luck or Griffin will probably get it, and they're deserving. Our value pick more than makes up for any early season development or loss of hype.

As a Skins fan i couldn't be happier with RGIII (well will be a bit more when he learns to slide earlier) . . . but with him missing a game and a half and being quite slowed during his two games back . . . and with Alfred Morris proving he is a big part of the Skins resurgence, i don't think RGIII should get it either . . . Wilson has been an absolute beast over the last half of season . . . though i will say RGIII has been consistently good from the beginning of the season whereas Wilson took a little while (and played like a rookie a bit early in the season, something RGIII has not done) get going though . . . as for Luck . . . him and his turnovers don't stand a chance (shouldn't anyway) IMO . . . everyone wants to talk about his comebacks . . . well maybe if he didn't turn the ball over so much he wouldn't have had to comeback so much . . . do give him credit for doing so and do definitely believe he is going to be a great QB for years to come . . . if health stays on the side of the 3 big rookie qb's, RGIII, Wilson and Luck should be in the top 5 QB's in the league before too long . . .

youngchew wrote:but to argue your point about Morris...are you saying Morris does more for RG3 than Lynch does for Wilson? I'd say they benefit evenly. the difference between Lynch and Morris' total rushing yards this season is less than 50 (i think).

Not saying that at all. I'm just commenting on our situation because I watch Redskins games, but I do feel they BOTH (equally) benefit from huge running games.

youngchew wrote:And to say that the Redskins proved they could win without RG3...i mean, i guess that's a true statement. But Kirk Cousins went out and beat the crappy Cleveland Browns (yes, i know they were coming in on a 3-game winning streak).

You forget that Cousins also closed out the Baltimore game by winning it with less than 1 minute on the clock. If Cousins doesn't win that game as well, we aren't even having this debate. As crappy as the Browns are, they still are a NFL team and could easily have beaten us. They've been close with quite a few big time opponents this year. In fact, up until this year, we've been about equally as crappy as the Browns organization has this past decade.

youngchew wrote:And I know we won't have a chance to find out this year, but I'm sure if Matt Flynn would've come in for Wilson and played against a bad team like the Browns, he mighit've been able to win as well.

Can't comment on ifs and buts. Only on things that have transpired. What has transpired is RGIII being knocked out of 2 games, and sitting out a full game due to injuries. What also has transpired is Cousins has came in and essentially won 2 games for us this year in relief. Don't read into this more than what has been said. I'm just stating facts here. RGIII is a major reason we are in the position we are in today. Simple as that.

youngchew wrote:And not that it has a direct impact on the offense, but Wilson benefits from having the 2nd best defense in the entire nfl. Redskins defense is ranked 27th overall.

I agree 100%. RW has the clear advantage of having that type of stout defense to back him up. I think RGIII has more pressure on him to do more. Luck even more than both of these guys.

SkinsFan46 wrote:If you were to put RW or RGIII in Indy, do you think either one of them have the type of seasons they are having? Not likely. Both of these QBs benefit from having great rushing attacks and that takes a ton of pressure off a young QB.

I'll take RGIII over RW any day of the week, but I would give my nod to OROY (offensive rookie of year) to RW or Alfred Morris. Why? Because quite simply RGIII hasn't finished 2 games this season due to injury and sat out a complete game. The Redskins have shown that they can win without RGIII, but what they haven't shown is they can win without Alfred Morris. This rookie RB has broken Clinton Portis franchise record for most yards in a season, and finished second in the NFL in rushing yards. How in the hell did this guy not make the pro-bowl?....lol

fair point about Luck, and No, i doubt wilson nor RG3 would have had the same success in Indy

but to argue your point about Morris...are you saying Morris does more for RG3 than Lynch does for Wilson? I'd say they benefit evenly. the difference between Lynch and Morris' total rushing yards this season is less than 50 (i think).

And to say that the Redskins proved they could win without RG3...i mean, i guess that's a true statement. But Kirk Cousins went out and beat the crappy Cleveland Browns (yes, i know they were coming in on a 3-game winning streak).

And I know we won't have a chance to find out this year, but I'm sure if Matt Flynn would've come in for Wilson and played against a bad team like the Browns, he mighit've been able to win as well.

And not that it has a direct impact on the offense, but Wilson benefits from having the 2nd best defense in the entire nfl. Redskins defense is ranked 27th overall.

and yeah, LOL @ Gore making the pro bowl over Morris. I think Morris has nearly 300 more rushing yards and 5 more touchdowns than Gore.

The reason he didn't make the pro bowl is because it's a popularity contest. It's bull shit

SkinsFan46 wrote:If you were to put RW or RGIII in Indy, do you think either one of them have the type of seasons they are having? Not likely. Both of these QBs benefit from having great rushing attacks and that takes a ton of pressure off a young QB.

I'll take RGIII over RW any day of the week, but I would give my nod to OROY (offensive rookie of year) to RW or Alfred Morris. Why? Because quite simply RGIII hasn't finished 2 games this season due to injury and sat out a complete game. The Redskins have shown that they can win without RGIII, but what they haven't shown is they can win without Alfred Morris. This rookie RB has broken Clinton Portis franchise record for most yards in a season, and finished second in the NFL in rushing yards. How in the hell did this guy not make the pro-bowl?....lol

fair point about Luck, and No, i doubt wilson nor RG3 would have had the same success in Indy

but to argue your point about Morris...are you saying Morris does more for RG3 than Lynch does for Wilson? I'd say they benefit evenly. the difference between Lynch and Morris' total rushing yards this season is less than 50 (i think).

And to say that the Redskins proved they could win without RG3...i mean, i guess that's a true statement. But Kirk Cousins went out and beat the crappy Cleveland Browns (yes, i know they were coming in on a 3-game winning streak).

And I know we won't have a chance to find out this year, but I'm sure if Matt Flynn would've come in for Wilson and played against a bad team like the Browns, he mighit've been able to win as well.

And not that it has a direct impact on the offense, but Wilson benefits from having the 2nd best defense in the entire nfl. Redskins defense is ranked 27th overall.

and yeah, LOL @ Gore making the pro bowl over Morris. I think Morris has nearly 300 more rushing yards and 5 more touchdowns than Gore.

The reason he didn't make the pro bowl is because it's a popularity contest. It's bull shit

while the pro bowl is a bit of a popularity contest, on 33.3% of the vote comes from the fans . . . an additional 33.3% comes from the players votes and another 33.3% comes from the coaches votes . . . that being said, due to the last 3 games (one in which out and two serviceable but unspectacular games) puts Wilson into the lead . . . IF they would i would think that co-rookies of the year would be interested and that would really rile up the luck fan base . . . lol

I could see the award going to any of these guys. And to be perfectly honest with you all, I don't really care who they decide on. In fact, let them decide on RG3 or Luck, and let us go to the Super Bowl. Win or lose, you can't at that point, argue that there was a better rookie QB than Russell Wilson.

Alright. I like RGIII, a lot. I think he's going to be very good, HOWEVER, he's been playing with a baby offense. Shanahan has basically allowed Griffin to do what he did in College, and that's mostly short dump-offs and screens, option runs and play action deep throws. I think that RGIII will be a very successful QB in this league. You redskins fans need to wise up about Wilson though. He has not had a baby offense, doesn't have elite WRs with speed and separation, or a consistently reliable O-line. He's put up the numbers he has not because of Lynch, but based on pure playmaking ability and a command of the offense.

You're going to get to see this Sunday just how special Wilson is. I think there are plenty on here who are selling RGIII extremely short, but I'd prefer to keep Wilson over RGIII every day of the week. There's just an intangible awesomeness about him. RGIII has measurable greatness, and as I said, i think he's going to be very successful in this league and will get better, but after a while, teams are going to figure that offense out, and i'll be interested to see how well Griffin adapts.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

youngchew wrote:[quote="SkinsFan46"]If you were to put RW or RGIII in Indy, do you think either one of them have the type of seasons they are having? Not likely. Both of these QBs benefit from having great rushing attacks and that takes a ton of pressure off a young QB.

I'll take RGIII over RW any day of the week, but I would give my nod to OROY (offensive rookie of year) to RW or Alfred Morris. Why? Because quite simply RGIII hasn't finished 2 games this season due to injury and sat out a complete game. The Redskins have shown that they can win without RGIII, but what they haven't shown is they can win without Alfred Morris. This rookie RB has broken Clinton Portis franchise record for most yards in a season, and finished second in the NFL in rushing yards. How in the hell did this guy not make the pro-bowl?....lol

fair point about Luck, and No, i doubt wilson nor RG3 would have had the same success in Indy

but to argue your point about Morris...are you saying Morris does more for RG3 than Lynch does for Wilson? I'd say they benefit evenly. the difference between Lynch and Morris' total rushing yards this season is less than 50 (i think).

And to say that the Redskins proved they could win without RG3...i mean, i guess that's a true statement. But Kirk Cousins went out and beat the crappy Cleveland Browns (yes, i know they were coming in on a 3-game winning streak).

And I know we won't have a chance to find out this year, but I'm sure if Matt Flynn would've come in for Wilson and played against a bad team like the Browns, he mighit've been able to win as well.

And not that it has a direct impact on the offense, but Wilson benefits from having the 2nd best defense in the entire nfl. Redskins defense is ranked 27th overall.

and yeah, LOL @ Gore making the pro bowl over Morris. I think Morris has nearly 300 more rushing yards and 5 more touchdowns than Gore.

The reason he didn't make the pro bowl is because it's a popularity contest. It's bull shit

while the pro bowl is a bit of a popularity contest, on 33.3% of the vote comes from the fans . . . an additional 33.3% comes from the players votes and another 33.3% comes from the coaches votes . . . that being said, due to the last 3 games (one in which out and two serviceable but unspectacular games) puts Wilson into the lead . . . IF they would i would think that co-rookies of the year would be interested and that would really rile up the luck fan base . . . lol[/quote]

I'm just saying one of the biggest pro bowl snubs this year is Richard Sherman and also Alfred Morris. Some players get voted in constantly and have mediocre years.

As far as ROTY really all these guys mentioned could win and I will be satisfied with either they choose. They all deserve it with what they have accomplished as rookies. I would just be more excited if wilson won.

SkinsFan46 wrote:If you were to put RW or RGIII in Indy, do you think either one of them have the type of seasons they are having? Not likely. Both of these QBs benefit from having great rushing attacks and that takes a ton of pressure off a young QB.

I'll take RGIII over RW any day of the week, but I would give my nod to OROY (offensive rookie of year) to RW or Alfred Morris. Why? Because quite simply RGIII hasn't finished 2 games this season due to injury and sat out a complete game. The Redskins have shown that they can win without RGIII, but what they haven't shown is they can win without Alfred Morris. This rookie RB has broken Clinton Portis franchise record for most yards in a season, and finished second in the NFL in rushing yards. How in the hell did this guy not make the pro-bowl?....lol

fair point about Luck, and No, i doubt wilson nor RG3 would have had the same success in Indy

but to argue your point about Morris...are you saying Morris does more for RG3 than Lynch does for Wilson? I'd say they benefit evenly. the difference between Lynch and Morris' total rushing yards this season is less than 50 (i think).

And to say that the Redskins proved they could win without RG3...i mean, i guess that's a true statement. But Kirk Cousins went out and beat the crappy Cleveland Browns (yes, i know they were coming in on a 3-game winning streak).

And I know we won't have a chance to find out this year, but I'm sure if Matt Flynn would've come in for Wilson and played against a bad team like the Browns, he mighit've been able to win as well.

And not that it has a direct impact on the offense, but Wilson benefits from having the 2nd best defense in the entire nfl. Redskins defense is ranked 27th overall.

and yeah, LOL @ Gore making the pro bowl over Morris. I think Morris has nearly 300 more rushing yards and 5 more touchdowns than Gore.

The reason he didn't make the pro bowl is because it's a popularity contest. It's bull shit

while the pro bowl is a bit of a popularity contest, on 33.3% of the vote comes from the fans . . . an additional 33.3% comes from the players votes and another 33.3% comes from the coaches votes . . . that being said, due to the last 3 games (one in which out and two serviceable but unspectacular games) puts Wilson into the lead . . . IF they would i would think that co-rookies of the year would be interested and that would really rile up the luck fan base . . . lol

I'm just saying one of the biggest pro bowl snubs this year is Richard Sherman and also Alfred Morris. Some players get bored in constantly and have mediocre years.

agreed for sure . . . how in the world did frank gore get in over morris?? or how Tillman and Peterson got in over Sherman i will never know either though i think Sherman got docked a bit due to the positive test for PED's . . .

youngchew wrote:Wilson has been very good this year, but outside of his MONSTER December, he's been good but not elite. RG3 is ahead of Wilson in every single statistical category. RG3 is better than Wilson in QB rating, Passer rating, total passing yards, total rushing yards, Completion percentage, average yards per pass, and TD/INT ratio. There is not a single QB stat where Wilson is better than RG3. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. see all the stats for yourselves... http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... asontype/2

How come you didn't mention straight touchdown numbers? Where Wilson is better than RGIII and would have been more so if our D/ST hadn't taken it to the Cardinals without his help.

youngchew wrote:Wilson has been very good this year, but outside of his MONSTER December, he's been good but not elite. RG3 is ahead of Wilson in every single statistical category. RG3 is better than Wilson in QB rating, Passer rating, total passing yards, total rushing yards, Completion percentage, average yards per pass, and TD/INT ratio. There is not a single QB stat where Wilson is better than RG3. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. see all the stats for yourselves... http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... asontype/2

How come you didn't mention straight touchdown numbers? Where Wilson is better than RGIII and would have been more so if our D/ST hadn't taken it to the Cardinals without his help.

Wilson is ahead in TD, but remember, its only by two and RG3 missed 1.5 games, so it is far to say that he would have matched or exceeded that number. Of course it's fair to say that he would have thrown 4 picks as well.

youngchew wrote:Wilson has been very good this year, but outside of his MONSTER December, he's been good but not elite. RG3 is ahead of Wilson in every single statistical category. RG3 is better than Wilson in QB rating, Passer rating, total passing yards, total rushing yards, Completion percentage, average yards per pass, and TD/INT ratio. There is not a single QB stat where Wilson is better than RG3. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. see all the stats for yourselves... http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... asontype/2

How come you didn't mention straight touchdown numbers? Where Wilson is better than RGIII and would have been more so if our D/ST hadn't taken it to the Cardinals without his help.

Wilson is ahead in TD, but remember, its only by two and RG3 missed 1.5 games, so it is far to say that he would have matched or exceeded that number. Of course it's fair to say that he would have thrown 4 picks as well.

Well, if we're going to throw out that missed game, then we should probably do it for the most important stat in the NFL