270 posts in this topic

I have been digging through all the posts here and can't find a solid, 100% confirmation on the following:

Can you install the Windows 8 Upgrade on a totally blank (ie new) hard drive? I keep seeing people post that they booted off the disc and were able to do a clean install, but they don't always indicate if there was an existing OS installed, which the upgrade disc would obviously see. Has anyone taken a totally empty/new drive with absolutely nothing on it prior to booting off the upgrade disc, no other drives with an OS that might be seen, and installed Windows 8 and have it activate properly? Microsoft supposedly has said a previous OS has to be installed/seen.

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There must be a prior base license...yes you can do a clean install, but only with a prior OS installed so it can verify eligibility.

[quote name='thekim' timestamp='1351264915' post='595274237']
I did, called the Micosoft that the cd-key doesnt work they made a [i]msdt[/i] activation with me and it works. inconvenient but well.
[/quote]

So the answer is no, but you called and managed to get them to activate it for you in violation of the license terms.

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OK, so no empty (new) drive installs? Well drat, was looking to replace my mechanical drives in my laptop with SSD drives, guess I will have to install Windows 7 on the new empty SSD then Windows 8. That sucks.

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That's the nature of upgrade installs, and part of why they are called upgrade installs.

The other option is to pay the $100 for the system builder media, and that can be used for clean installs, and even includes the cool (well I like it) sticker showing that it has a genuine Windows 8 license.

[quote name='thekim' timestamp='1351265129' post='595274245']
He asked me also for me earlier Windows Version and I gave him also my Windows 7 key so everything is fine.
[/quote]

It still violates the license terms if you read them carefully. Anyone can toss them a key that they picked up from somewhere on the internet. The reason for the upgrade is to allow it to make sure the license is actually activated on that machine & currently valid.

I won't keep arguing the point here though as I don't want to fill the thread with clutter.

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Or just get the disk from MSDN and use that for your clean install. The limitations on upgrade media are laughable, you should be able to just enter the product key of the OS you're upgrading from and do a clean install. Having to go through convoluted (and sometimes illegal means if you don't have an MSDN account) to perform a clean install of a product you legitimately purchased is silly.

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[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1351265336' post='595274259']
Or just get the disk from MSDN and use that for your clean install. The limitations on upgrade media are laughable, you should be able to just enter the product key of the OS you're upgrading from and do a clean install. Having to go through convoluted (and sometimes illegal means if you don't have an MSDN account) to perform a clean install of a product you legitimately purchased is silly.
[/quote]

What good would the disk from MSDN do when it's the license (not the disc...and this has been the case for over a decade) that determines the eligibility for upgrade or full install?

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[quote name='Shane Nokes' timestamp='1351265427' post='595274261']
What good would the disk from MSDN do when it's the license that determines the eligibility for upgrade or full install?

/facepalm
[/quote]

Given that I've seen several people post that they could perform a clean install with the MSDN image but not the image acquired through the upgrade actually I'd say it has quite a lot of benefit. My comment wasn't about eligibility for the upgrade it was about bypassing the silly limitations on actually installing it. Perhaps it might be wise to actually understand the point that I'm attempting to make before reactionary silliness

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[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1351265558' post='595274269']
Given that I've seen several people post that they could perform a clean install with the MSDN image but not the image acquired through the upgrade actually I'd say it has quite a lot of benefit. My comment wasn't about eligibility for the upgrade it was about bypassing the silly limitations on actually installing it. Perhaps it might be wise to actually understand the point that I'm attempting to make before reactionary silliness
[/quote]

I understood the point, but you missed mine.

The disc for retail installs, both full version and upgrade are 100% identical down to the last bit. You can check if you wish by doing a hash comparison.

What determines if the install behaves as an upgrade or full install is the actual key itself. This has been true for over a decade now.

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[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1351266351' post='595274289']
So explain then why people are having trouble performing clean installs and then activating them with the upgrade disk, but not with the MSDN disk? The install media provided for the

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So answer my damn question then, why are some people reporting that they couldn't perform a clean install and then legitimately activate their product with the upgrade disk but could with the MSDN disk? I'm looking for hard facts, not appeals to authority.

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[quote name='Shane Nokes' timestamp='1351266483' post='595274295']
There is no smug arrogance. I've been consulting for MS for over a decade now, and actually spent the last 4 years working directly on campus.

I'm trying to provide some facts here and you're ignoring them and being rude in the process.

The media is the same. It's not an upgrade disc. It's a disc, and the KEY determines the install, not the disc.

Can you please tell me what part of that isn't being 100% clear?

You know what...nevermind...
[/quote]

Hey if you are working on the MS campus, can you by any chance tell me why I still get the message that I can't download Win8 in my country/region when I run the upgrade assistant? I live in Honduras

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[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1351266606' post='595274297']
So answer my damn question then, why are some people reporting that they couldn't perform a clean install and then legitimately activate their product with the upgrade disk but could with the MSDN disk? I'm looking for hard facts, not appeals to authority.
[/quote]

I edited it to answer that specific question, and put in a report to staff. You are being ridiculous and I'm done.

[quote name='Stoffel' timestamp='1351266629' post='595274299']
Hey if you are working on the MS campus, can you by any chance tell me why I still get the message that I can't download Win8 in my country/region when I run the upgrade assistant? I live in Honduras
[/quote]

I'm currently on hiatus so don't have access to information regarding that. I would recommend contacting one of the official support channels.

BTW I assume you tried getting the tool from the official Windows purchase site in Honduras right?
[url="http://windows.microsoft.com/es-xl/windows/buy?ocid=GA8_O_MSCOM_Prog_FPP_Null_Null"]http://windows.microsoft.com/es-xl/windows/buy?ocid=GA8_O_MSCOM_Prog_FPP_Null_Null[/url]

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[quote name='Shane Nokes' timestamp='1351266822' post='595274301']
I edited it to answer that specific question, and put in a report to staff. You are being ridiculous and I'm done.

I'm currently on hiatus so don't have access to information regarding that. I would recommend contacting one of the official support channels.

BTW I assume you tried getting the tool from the official Windows purchase site in Honduras right?
[url="http://windows.microsoft.com/es-xl/windows/buy?ocid=GA8_O_MSCOM_Prog_FPP_Null_Null"]http://windows.micro...g_FPP_Null_Null[/url]
[/quote]

I actually used the one from the US store, but now I just tried again from the link you gave me, but it still gives me the same message

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[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1351266606' post='595274297']
So answer my damn question then, why are some people reporting that they couldn't perform a clean install and then legitimately activate their product with the upgrade disk but could with the MSDN disk? I'm looking for hard facts, not appeals to authority.
[/quote]
Shane is right, my guess is that those people are lying or not telling the full truth as to what they are doing. I plan on testing this myself soon anyways.

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How about the way they used to do it back in the Windows 98 days, where the installer asks you to insert the disc for your
old version of Windows, runs a security check to see that it's genuine, then proceed with the installation as normal ... ?

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[quote name='Stoffel' timestamp='1351266989' post='595274313']
I actually used the one from the US store, but now I just tried again from the link you gave me, but it still gives me the same message
[/quote]

Hmm that is a bit unusual then since as far as I know Honduras should be (not saying is as a definite) supported. The local MS Support group would probably have more information regarding any issues that may be happening.

Sorry that I don't have more info at the moment.

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[quote name='Gotenks98' timestamp='1351267033' post='595274317']
Shane is right, my guess is that those people are lying or not telling the full truth as to what they are doing. I plan on testing this myself soon anyways.
[/quote]

What possible reason would someone have for doing that It seems more common amongst those using the 14.99 upgrade so I'd wager there is difference in the install media.

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[quote name='DJGM' timestamp='1351267043' post='595274319']
How about the way they used to do it back in the Windows 98 days, where the installer asks you to insert the disc for your
old version of Windows, runs a security check to see that it's genuine, then proceed with the installation as normal ... ?
[/quote]

That's what I was referring to when I said that it used to be the disc that determined the install type. There used to actually be upgrade/full install discs...and as long as you knew what you were doing you could use an install key to do a full install.

This is no longer the case since the key itself determines what happens.

[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1351267166' post='595274323']
What possible reason would someone have for doing that It seems more common amongst those using the 14.99 upgrade so I'd wager there is difference in the install media.
[/quote]

This is my last time stating this, and it is fact not supposition. So please do not keep posting your doubts over and over again.

The KEY determines the install type, not the media.

The difference is who still has a base OS install that is eligible for upgrade vs those who do not. NOTHING prevents a clean install using those keys as long as there is still a base OS installed. You can reboot and do a completely clean install with the upgrade discs...as long as there is a base OS still present on the HD...you can even wipe the HD once it verifies an eligible license is present.

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With Windows 7 you could install the OS from the upgrade disk and it wouldn't activate, then you could install it again back over the top and provide a key and it would work Pretty sure that used to work with Vista as well so there is a chance they didn't fix it

I'm not condoning this though, as it is an upgrade disk and is meant to be used to upgrade your legitimately installed OEM or boxed product

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[quote name='Teebor' timestamp='1351267295' post='595274329']
With Windows 7 you could install the OS from the upgrade disk and it wouldn't activate, then you could install it again back over the top and provide a key and it would work Pretty sure that used to work with Vista as well so there is a chance they didn't fix it

I'm not condoning this though, as it is an upgrade disk and is meant to be used to upgrade your legitimately installed OEM or boxed product
[/quote]