whoops misquoted you. You said "They came into being naked." But still the same question, were'nt they already naked?
--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
-------------- Original message --------------
From: kgraham0938 at comcast.net
> Hey thanks for the reply, it has always been my understanding that hayah did
> correspond to the 'b verb' in english. Like for instance Waltke & O'Conner says
> on pg 72.
>> In a verbless (or nominal) clause there is no verbal marker of predication.
> Hebrwe, like many other languages, including Latin and Classical Greek, may
> predicate an adjective or noun directly, without a copula (i.e some form of
> hayah, which corresponds to English 'to be').
>> So that is how I have always seen it, not to be say this is a trump card or
> anything but just my understanding of it and where it came from. And with
> regards to Gen 2:25 when you said "they came into a state of being naked."
> Were'nt they already naked? It does not seems to me that they were becoming
> nake but already naked. Another example I'd like to get your opinion on is 2
> Chr 20:25.
>> vayih:yw yamiym $:lo$h boz:ziym , it looks to me that the verb is functioning
> more like a past progressive 'were plundering.' What are your thoughts?
>> --
> Kelton Graham
>KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net>> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "B. M. Rocine"
>> > Dear Kelton,
> >
> > Not to answer for Peter, but to support him:
> >
> > I think clauses constructed with the verbal root HYH are not equivalent
> > to noun sentences (a.k.a. verbless clause). In other words, I do not
> > think of HYH as a copula. Rather it means refers essentially to a
> > happening.
> >
> > On the other hand, we can't force a particular wooden translation to
> > work in every case of HYH. Sometimes HYH can even refer to someone
> > "coming along" as in movement to a place.
> >
> > Genesis 2:25 in particular would be something like this: "They came
> > into being naked."
> >
> > Hoping to help.
> >
> > Shalom,
> > Bryan
> >
> > kgraham0938 at comcast.net wrote:
> > > Hello Peter,
> > >
> > > I am curious about your statement about WAYIH:YW = become as opposed to
> > 'were.' What do you think is the difference btw Judges 16:30 and Genesis 2:25?
> > >
> > > WAYIH:YW $N"HEM `RWMMIYM.... would you translate this as "They became
> > naked.." or am I misreading your point? Thanks
> > >
> > > --
> > > Kelton Graham
> > > KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: Peter Kirk
> > >
> > >> On 03/10/2006 18:08, Chris and Nel wrote:
> > >>> ... I am so used to
> > >>> reading sentences without "to be " in them that I still can not fathom its
> > >>> purpose here, considering that without it I actually arrived at the
> correct
> > >>> translation without looking at the English.
> > >>>
> > >>> Now can someone be kind enough pleeeease..... to relieve me of my making a
> > >>> fool of
> > >>> myself on this board?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> The distinction may be that sentences in which "to be" is omitted are
> > >> usually (always?) stative, indicating a continuing state, like English
> > >> "be", whereas those starting with WAYHIY, and here with its plural form
> > >> WAYIHYUW, indicate actions, like English "became". Thus a literal
> > >> translation would be "And the dead... became more than the dead...". The
> > >> meaning is of course "More people died... than...", an action. A
> > >> translation like Kelton's "Those who were dead ... *were* many, more
> > >> than..." is misleading because it suggests a state, a count of bodies
> > >> already dead. But in fact we have an action here, a large number of
> > >> people dying. (Dare I suggest a prototype of today's suicide bombers,
> > >> except here we have an Israelite killing Gentiles in Gaza?)
> > >>
> >
> > --
> > B. M. Rocine
> > Living Word Church
> > 6101 Court St. Rd.
> > Syracuse, NY 13026
> > (W): 315.437.6744
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