<quoted text>And you dont think the government will lie in anyway possible to allow the usage of said illegally obtained evidence? And its acceptable that people will be arrested and tried on this illegally obtained evidence? The point is this must stop and the government must follow the law just like everyone else.

It's not illegal at all to film people without their knowledge. Your image does not belong to you when you're in public. It's public. The metadata you're concerned about could potentially be used to alert police about, say, your repeated trips to a known drug dealer's house. But what alerted police to illegal activity holds no bearing in court. They'd still have to conduct an investigation using traditional methods for a conviction.

And I truly don't mean to "jump on you" for protecting your rights above all others'. I'm just hoping you'll realize that if everyone always did that, this wouldn't be a republic at all. It would be a totalitarian state. And I hope you'll see that your concerns will always fall largely on deaf ears when your goals are so selfish. This country was built by immigrants who were spit on by the immigrants that arrived before them. Eventually, they all learned that they must work together, collectively, toward a common goal of freedom and liberty for ALL. It seems as if you, and so many white men, completely missed that entire portion of US history and pretend that since they were born here, their rights were also. They weren't. Your ancestors were spit-upon immigrants who stepped off a boat poor and jobless. It would be nice if everyone kept that in mind when they talk about things like "my rights."

<quoted text>It's not illegal at all to film people without their knowledge. Your image does not belong to you when you're in public. It's public. The metadata you're concerned about could potentially be used to alert police about, say, your repeated trips to a known drug dealer's house. But what alerted police to illegal activity holds no bearing in court. They'd still have to conduct an investigation using traditional methods for a conviction.And I truly don't mean to "jump on you" for protecting your rights above all others'. I'm just hoping you'll realize that if everyone always did that, this wouldn't be a republic at all. It would be a totalitarian state. And I hope you'll see that your concerns will always fall largely on deaf ears when your goals are so selfish. This country was built by immigrants who were spit on by the immigrants that arrived before them. Eventually, they all learned that they must work together, collectively, toward a common goal of freedom and liberty for ALL. It seems as if you, and so many white men, completely missed that entire portion of US history and pretend that since they were born here, their rights were also. They weren't. Your ancestors were spit-upon immigrants who stepped off a boat poor and jobless. It would be nice if everyone kept that in mind when they talk about things like "my rights."

Did I say it was ilelgal to film people in public? Why do you always twist what I say to suit your purpose. Everytime you answer you say or imply things I never said and are irrelevant to what I have said. By implication you claim they will not use this illegally obtained evidence and rely on traditional methods to get a conviction. How do you know that first of all,you dont, and they have stated they WILL use this illegally obtained evidence against someone if they want to. The violations of the 4th amendment must stop. That means stop illegally searching everyones emails, phone calls, web activity, and public movements.You say if everyone protects their rights above all others we wont be a republic but a totalitarian state. All I did was voice my opinions on something. I didnt put anything above or below anything else. I think it is obvious everyone has their own priorities, and you seem to think their is something wrong for me to worry more about something that directly affects me as opposed to something that doesnt. That is idiotic. The ironic thing the things I have been speaking about affect EVERYONE. You are saying the goal of protecting the rights of ALL Americans is selfish? Give me a freakin break. WHat is selfish is only being concerned about the rights of a few minority groups and ignoring the violation of the Constitutional rights of millions. What is selfish is dismissing my concerns and the rights of every citizen because you are only concerned about gays and lawbreakers.

No, I'm genuinely concerned about violations of the fourth amendment. It's been a significant part of my career. But you said that we are "losing our freedoms" and that we need to "get back to the liberty-loving country we once were." Those are the statements I responded to primarily, because most Americans haven't ever enjoyed the freedoms you clearly take for granted and were never a country that didn't ignore our constitution. I simply said that it's typical for white men (I'm one) to forget or diminish the struggle for freedom that women, blacks and minorities have fought and continue to fight to this day for life-and-death liberties. Then, to hear them bitch about less significant problems is often revered as pompous, ignorant and selfish. That diminishes your message, even when it's a valid one and a genuine concern.

Bacon hater.....yes this country was built on immigrants, but that was back when there was land to be had and to build a country. You seem to want to evolve with the rights of others that did not exist back then. As of now we do not need immigrants because we are full up and it no longer applies. We have evolved because blacks have not been considered property after the Civil War. Women can vote and minorities are more protected then they ever were. You were never a slave or your parents and grandparents or great grandparents. But your still trying to cash in on things way back and want people who had nothing to do with it(including you) to try and pay for it both money and guilt wise. The reason the black people are looked at is they keep this alive as though it happen yesterday. So stop the crybaby stuff and move forward and stop the african american crap unless you just came off the boat. Either become just an American and we all move forward together or jump on a boat to Africa and see how they live.

No, I'm genuinely concerned about violations of the fourth amendment. It's been a significant part of my career. But you said that we are "losing our freedoms" and that we need to "get back to the liberty-loving country we once were." Those are the statements I responded to primarily, because most Americans haven't ever enjoyed the freedoms you clearly take for granted and were never a country that didn't ignore our constitution. I simply said that it's typical for white men (I'm one) to forget or diminish the struggle for freedom that women, blacks and minorities have fought and continue to fight to this day for life-and-death liberties. Then, to hear them bitch about less significant problems is often revered as pompous, ignorant and selfish. That diminishes your message, even when it's a valid one and a genuine concern.

The thing is women, black, and minorities already have equal protection under the law, with the exception of a womans right to decide what to do with her own body. The ones who do not and you have been speaking of prior are law breaking illegal immigrants. They do not deserve equal rights or anything from this country but a free ticket out of here. I am not sure what these life or death liberties you are speaking of if you are talking in the present. And if you are not you need to quit living in the past. Problems others mention may be less significant to you, but that may be your own selfishness. I personally find the Constitutional rights of every American VERY significant.

This is how the government works it sheeple. There are so many things going on that they grab your rights away while we debate or argue among ourselves. Only people that is benifitting from all this is the politicians and big business.

Tell ya what, my first and most enthusiastic priority is defending and enforcing the US Constitution and the law. Everything else pales in comparison. You can dismiss that as insignificant and selfish, but I think you are sadly mistaken. It is the most important issue affecting this country at present. A government that doesnt follow the law is no longer a lawful democracy or a republic. It is actually the totalitarian state you say you are fearful of. No offense but I find the continued violation of the Bill of Rights a far more serious issue than gay marriage and the rights of illegal immigrants.

"We don't need immigrants anymore because we're full up." Wow. It takes a really dumb tea bagger to say something so stupid. Read an economics book. 101-level is fine. And anyone that thinks women and minorities are treated the same under the law is equally lost. Read the Lilly Ledbetter Act. And when it was passed, just as an example.

This is how the government works it sheeple. There are so many things going on that they grab your rights away while we debate or argue among ourselves. Only people that is benifitting from all this is the politicians and big business.

That is because too many people only care about who is the next American Idol, not their diminishing freedoms. When asked these people dont know and dont care what is happening as long as Rueben Underwood wins.

"We don't need immigrants anymore because we're full up." Wow. It takes a really dumb tea bagger to say something so stupid. Read an economics book. 101-level is fine. And anyone that thinks women and minorities are treated the same under the law is equally lost. Read the Lilly Ledbetter Act. And when it was passed, just as an example.

Being "treated" differently under the law isnt the same as having the same legal protections. I will concede that women do not completely have equal rights. I supported the Ledbetter Act among other womens rights proposals. I have spoken out about these things often. So whats your point? I cant object to more than one wrong? Or I am only supposed to speak up when it is approved by you first? Next time you shouldnt make light of someones opinions and objections just because you think others things are more important. No matter how important a particular issues is there are still many others that need talked about.

<quoted text>Being "treated" differently under the law isnt the same as having the same legal protections. I will concede that women do not completely have equal rights. I supported the Ledbetter Act among other womens rights proposals. I have spoken out about these things often. So whats your point? I cant object to more than one wrong? Or I am only supposed to speak up when it is approved by you first? Next time you shouldnt make light of someones opinions and objections just because you think others things are more important. No matter how important a particular issues is there are still many others that need talked about.

I'm just saying that your arguments would be more effective if they appeared to take into consideration other concerns of value to a broader group of Americans. I suppose I'm biased because I've read your posts previously though. You appear overly concerned about Snowden's freedom and government intrusion and have never spoken out in defense of any of the myriad of people constantly oppressed in this country. That point of view is both shared by many older white men and intentionally created by people who seek to further oppress those groups- older white men.

<quoted text>I'm just saying that your arguments would be more effective if they appeared to take into consideration other concerns of value to a broader group of Americans. I suppose I'm biased because I've read your posts previously though. You appear overly concerned about Snowden's freedom and government intrusion and have never spoken out in defense of any of the myriad of people constantly oppressed in this country. That point of view is both shared by many older white men and intentionally created by people who seek to further oppress those groups- older white men.

A broader group of Americans. I think you better rethink that. The things I have been talking about affect ALL Americans, there is no broader group than that. LOL I am very concerned about the patriot Snowden and the corruption he exposed. I have frequently spoken about oppression of many types of people, but right now I am speaking about something else, the oppression of the entire population by an ever controlling and corrupt government. I think you are overly concerned about gays and lawbreakers rather than the millions of people having their Constitutional rights violated. Considering i am speaking about the rights of ALL Americans right now all your previous points about the rights of others are moot.

Not really. It's hard to spend much time concerned about cameras that have been on traffic lights for a decade or phone bills that aren't even my property if I have to worry about my wife being unnecessarily probed by sticks in her vagina because a legislator who doesn't even have one said it has to happen. Government intrusion is a zero sum game. We all agree it's bad, it's always been a part of society and all parties are taking an active interest in defeating it. It will always ebb and flow. It's been intense since Bush, we're becoming more aware, so it will decrease in coming years. Then we'll forget about it and it will return, and so on and so on. It's a big deal and warrants concern. But it shouldn't overtake efforts to provide equality to American citizens who don't have it. Especially when there is a group of Americans dedicated to preventing equality. There aren't groups of Americans who love government intrusion.

Bacon hater.....if you let little thing infringe on your rights they become bigger thing later on. Just like the Patriot Act had become, its intent seemed good but in the wrong hands of power was abused. This administrtion has abused the hell out of the power and constitution. Both parties are crooked, but this administrtion plays the blame displacement game but wants you to think it is all noble. It is called living the lie.

<quoted text>It's not illegal at all to film people without their knowledge. Your image does not belong to you when you're in public. It's public. The metadata you're concerned about could potentially be used to alert police about, say, your repeated trips to a known drug dealer's house. But what alerted police to illegal activity holds no bearing in court. They'd still have to conduct an investigation using traditional methods for a conviction.

And I truly don't mean to "jump on you" for protecting your rights above all others'. I'm just hoping you'll realize that if everyone always did that, this wouldn't be a republic at all. It would be a totalitarian state. And I hope you'll see that your concerns will always fall largely on deaf ears when your goals are so selfish. This country was built by immigrants who were spit on by the immigrants that arrived before them. Eventually, they all learned that they must work together, collectively, toward a common goal of freedom and liberty for ALL. It seems as if you, and so many white men, completely missed that entire portion of US history and pretend that since they were born here, their rights were also. They weren't. Your ancestors were spit-upon immigrants who stepped off a boat poor and jobless. It would be nice if everyone kept that in mind when they talk about things like "my rights."

I wish everybody could get off of the fact about what happened more than 100 years ago. I never met any of my ancestors that were around when blacks were enslaved. Furthermore my ancestors through out history has never owned or possessed a slave. My family grew up poor and was sharecroppers and work right along beside the slaves that worked on a plantation. My family was basically white slaves, because they had to work on the same plantations as the slaves did and without pay. There pay was allowed to keep some of the food for there own to eat and have a small house to live in.

<quoted text>I wish everybody could get off of the fact about what happened more than 100 years ago. I never met any of my ancestors that were around when blacks were enslaved. Furthermore my ancestors through out history has never owned or possessed a slave. My family grew up poor and was sharecroppers and work right along beside the slaves that worked on a plantation. My family was basically white slaves, because they had to work on the same plantations as the slaves did and without pay. There pay was allowed to keep some of the food for there own to eat and have a small house to live in.

First of all, I'm white. And you can't compare a group of people who came here by choice to an entire race of people smuggled here and stripped of everything - their religion, their names, their traditions, their cultures, their families, their children, their land, their rights, their decency, their self-respect, their EVERYTHING. You are ignorant for comparing the two and offensive for pretending that since it ended, all's better now. It's not. They still don't have the same opportunities, remain prejudiced against and misunderstood. You need to read more.

Bacon hater......what are these opportunities black people are denied? They have the same education. If they do not get something they play the race card. With todays media outlets it is harder to be discriminated. They have the naacp and BET network and a month dedicated to blacks. Maybe you should read your history books. Most of the slaves were captured tribe from their inner battles who were going to be slaves to rival tribesman. But instead the chiefs of these tribes sold them to slave traders. Either way is wrong but that was the time back then. They have had 1f? years to get the language and education and there is a great amount that has not. The ones that do are ridiculed for selling out. So they are called names for improving themselves. I have seen this. Plus the black people kill each other way more then anybody else. I guess they did not really listen to Martin Luther King.

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