"I want answers," said Fluit. "They were my pets and my family, any decent human being would have just called. I'm not letting it go."

Any decent human being wouldn't let their very large and potentially dangerous dogs slaughter their neighbors goats. The fact that those dogs are dead are entirely the dog owner's fault: The goats were in a pen, not wondering around, and the dogs had (probably) killed one of the goats the day before. An attentive owner would have noticed blood on their fur.

Meh, any farmer/rancher will kill your dog if they get onto their property and endanger their livestock. They just will, and it will be the dog owner's fault. It's why you need to pen or restrain your dogs on your own property.

semiotix:I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb and say that you don't shoot all three of your next-door neighbor's dogs, after they've killed your prize goats and without anyone or anything else in danger, unless at least one of the following things is true.

1) You really farking hate your neighbors already,2) You were really psyched to get to shoot a bunch of giant dogs, or3) You were so blinded with rage over the loss of your show-goats that you went into that red mist for a while, and when you came out all the dogs were dead and you were holding a smoking rifle.

These weren't wolves, or foxes, or even strays. If it happened any way remotely like what's described in the article, the goat-shower is either a malicious asshole, or way too quick on the trigger finger. Or both.

Just because the animal belongs to the neighbors doesn't change the fact there's an animal killing your livestock. The livestock owner is well within their rights to defend their property. I'm not surprised he chose to shoot the dogs. Would you want to go out there and try to corral three very large dogs displaying aggressive behavior? For all he knew the dogs might have turned on him if he'd tried that.

I doubt he's some trigger happy nut or that he shot the dogs out of malice. I'm sure he was extremely pissed off though. I'm also sure his actions were very deliberate. He'd already lost two animals and wasn't going to give the dogs a chance to come back and do more damage. The first time might have been an isolated incident. The second time shows they're not going to stop and that the owners can't control them.

Unfortunately once dogs get a taste for killing livestock it's difficult to break them of the habit.

semiotix:I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb and say that you don't shoot all three of your next-door neighbor's dogs, after they've killed your prize goats and without anyone or anything else in danger, unless at least one of the following things is true.

1) You really farking hate your neighbors already,2) You were really psyched to get to shoot a bunch of giant dogs, or3) You were so blinded with rage over the loss of your show-goats that you went into that red mist for a while, and when you came out all the dogs were dead and you were holding a smoking rifle.

These weren't wolves, or foxes, or even strays. If it happened any way remotely like what's described in the article, the goat-shower is either a malicious asshole, or way too quick on the trigger finger. Or both.

That said,

Fluit says she won't be satisfied until she knows why her dogs are dead

You know exactly why your dogs are dead, and why they'd still be alive if they had anyone but you for an owner. Satisfied?

Doesn't matter if he's an ass. I lived in the country and a farmer told me one day that our dog had been chasing his cattle. I told him, that if he saw him do it, go ahead and shoot him. Of course, he never did because our dog preferred small game to cattle. It would have been sad, but you can't have a dog doing something like that.

Turns out that the dogs were seen eating goats on two different days, shots were fired both times, and the owners were out of town and unreachable. Since no one was home to take responsibility for properly confining the dogs, the farmer took reasonable steps to prevent them from returning a THIRD time.

To all the people going on about calling the owners and/or shooing the dogs away:

A female Saint Bernard generally weighs in at 120-150 lbs. A male can go up to 200 lbs no problem. Are you seriously telling me that you'd expect anyone in their right minds to confront a pack of dogs who have just killed livestock and have a combined weight of about 500 lbs?! Really? When you don't know anything about the temperament and/or disease status of said dogs?

I'm not a farmer and I don't own a gun, but if I saw three Saint Bernards chowing down on something they killed, I'd get the hell out of there and call Animal Control (because there is an AC where I live). I would never approach them.

The dog owners were at fault. The farmer reacted appropriately. If you don't want farmers to shoot your dogs, don't let them get loose and don't live in the country.

/former Saint owner//had to put her down for aggression issues (long story, and no, there was no alternative)///not getting a kick...

Is it really impossible to get something goat-scented and smack them with it when they go sniffing around the goat pen, so they associate the smell with hurt and "bad dog"?

Does not always work....but....I have seen a farmer take a dead chicken and beat his dog so badly with it, that guts were a flyin', head came off, dog was cowering and that chicken beating continued until the feet was the only thing left in the farmer's hand. From that time on whenever a chicken even crossed that dogs path ...he looked the other way......and took off......

A lot of people -also passing a judgement on the dog owners here- do not know what that means. "Show goats" isn't like the Kennel Club type thing for dogs and their bias toward family pets, even humanizing them as their "children", severely taints their view of the subject. It's ignorance mixed with a little superiority complex. The reactions of apologists posting above demonstrates that. IMHO the dog owners should be charged with animal neglect, fined, and pay restitution for the lost goats; it appears the farmer is turning the other cheek.

wellreadneck:I can't remember how many times I was tasked with running livestock (neighbors', family's, and our own) out of the vegetable garden in my youth. Even though they had often completely destroyed everything after breaking down the fence, it never once occurred to me to shoot an animal, especially one belonging to someone el

Livestock is typically worth more than a vegetable garden, you know.

Growing up on a poultry farm, we've had to shoot our share of neighborhood dogs that were left to run loose and ended up jumping over or digging under fences to get to our livestock. We typically gave the owners two verbal warnings when we returned their dogs and an itemized bill for the livestock killed. The third time, though, their dead dog got delivered to their doorstep with another bill.

I have far more respect for foxes and coyotes who actually eattheir kills. But domesticated dogs, they'll kill 100+ chickens for the sheer thrill of the killing and not eat a single one. Nothing under the sun makes a farmer more livid.

We've had the sheriff department called on us umpteen times by "city people" who moved out to the country and suddenly have a dead dog. The deputies typically tell them that they had two warnings to keep their dogs hooked up and under control, and that we were well within our rights to shoot them the first time it happened.

Shiat happens, keep better control of your dogs and this wouldn't happen.

Unfortunately once dogs get a taste for killing livestock it's difficult to break them of the habit.

=========

Domestic dogs are descended from wolves. Domestic dogs retain a lot of their wolf ancestor instincts. Too many farkwits believe that cute, little Fluffy would never do anything like run with a pack, bring down a deer and rip its guts open......but that's just what Fluffy will do if given a chance.

semiotix:I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb and say that you don't shoot all three of your next-door neighbor's dogs, after they've killed your prize goats and without anyone or anything else in danger, unless at least one of the following things is true.

1) You really farking hate your neighbors already,2) You were really psyched to get to shoot a bunch of giant dogs, or3) You were so blinded with rage over the loss of your show-goats that you went into that red mist for a while, and when you came out all the dogs were dead and you were holding a smoking rifle.

These weren't wolves, or foxes, or even strays. If it happened any way remotely like what's described in the article, the goat-shower is either a malicious asshole, or way too quick on the trigger finger. Or both.

Because when you've got freakin' Cujo stalking your livestock, you don't take a chance on losing any more goats or seeing what else they might want to kill next. The neighbor wasn't sure if it was just one or all 3 dogs killing his livestock, the dogs' owners were out of town--forget it. Put down the goddamn dogs. And I'm a dog lover!

Something else to consider: What would make a St. Bernard go after a goat? Weren't the dogs being cared for while the owners were away? Were they being fed? They're herding dogs, bred to PROTECT livestock, not kill them. They're not known for being aggressive at all.

My landlord raises Boer goats and cattle, and he's two big Pyranees dogs that chase the coyotes away. They're big, slobbery love dogs, but do not mess with the herd. That's their babies and they're very protective.

When he had to replace a deceased (it had a long, happy farm life) working dog with a new one, he ended up shooting the new dog because it killed two baby goats. That "baby animal killing thing" is not something you can train away with obedience classes. If a dog will kill one animal, it'll kill another.

I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb and say that you don't shoot all three of your next-door neighbor's dogs, after they've killed your prize goats and without anyone or anything else in danger, unless at least one of the following things is true.

1) You really farking hate your neighbors already,2) You were really psyched to get to shoot a bunch of giant dogs, or3) You were so blinded with rage over the loss of your show-goats that you went into that red mist for a while, and when you came out all the dogs were dead and you were holding a smoking rifle.

These weren't wolves, or foxes, or even strays. If it happened any way remotely like what's described in the article, the goat-shower is either a malicious asshole, or way too quick on the trigger finger. Or both.

That said,

Fluit says she won't be satisfied until she knows why her dogs are dead

You know exactly why your dogs are dead, and why they'd still be alive if they had anyone but you for an owner. Satisfied?

basemetal:Meh, any farmer/rancher will kill your dog if they get onto their property and endanger their livestock. They just will, and it will be the dog owner's fault. It's why you need to pen or restrain your dogs on your own property.

Yep.

CSB:

When I was about 17, we lived in the Tehachapi mountains in CA and I worked for one of our neighbors who owned several hundred acres and about 40 head of cattle. Another neighbor on the lower part of the mountain was notorious for letting his dogs roam. We were coming home one afternoon and spotted two of the dogs chasing some calves about 200 yards below us in a ravine. "John" hits the brakes, pulls his lever-action 30-30 from behind the seat and nails the first dog. As the second dogs starts fleeing "John" whistles real loud and the dog stopped to look. Fatal mistake. "John" nails the bastard and sent me down the ravine to retrieve the dead dogs and I threw them in the back of the truck. We turned around and dropped the carcasses off at the other neighbor's gate. The other neighbor never said a word about it.

basemetal:Meh, any farmer/rancher will kill your dog if they get onto their property and endanger their livestock. They just will, and it will be the dog owner's fault. It's why you need to pen or restrain your dogs on your own property.

Indeed...I don't know a state where it's not only legal but expected that a livestock owner will shoot a predator caught going after their stock. In my home state it's legal to hunt down the predator after the fact (including someone's pet or otherwise). I've more than one friend/neighbor that has dropped off the neighbors dog on their porch along with a bill for whatever the dog killed (chickens usually, but goats, sheep and even a foal). I typically keep game cameras out for just this purpose. That last thing I need is some stupid dog killing a couple thousand dollars worth of stock for fun (they rarely eat it...it's just for sport). That said, most dogs won't do this if they've been around farms/stock. My neighbors all have dogs and they would sooner protect the local stock than kill it. Nice to have them around to keep coyotes at bay.