Like how we need another thorn to remove the first thorn, when this discernment happens that, the first thorn never really is, was, there is no more need of the second thorn as well! The second thorn needs to be discarded. Second thorn is as good as the first one!

This is simple pure awareness of the reality.

Here "Knowing" is discerning that the first thorn never really is, and, "Being" is discarding the second thorn and just being by discerning the reality of the second thorn as well, which we usually fail to do discern!

Having known, we have to remain with this Discernment! We generally get addicted with the second thorn and keep holding on to it for ever and have countless Births. We need that 100% conviction that root has been seen and convinced that it is not there, and, then live by "that" AS IS

Your question are really good ones, however, if you acquaint yourself more of Bhagavan's teachings, many of such questions would clear off themselves. I suggest you read the "Who am I" book and Talks with Bhagavan. Many such questions would be answered unasked!

As regards to your question, It indicated that the Mind of Palaniswamy had still not merged in the heart and the "jiva" escaped in the last moment through the eyes. As Subramanian Sir pointed out, Vasanas had still not exhausted, those Vasanas escaped through his eyes.

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It must be remembered that Sri Bhagavan had been with his mother from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. until she passed away. He was all along holding her head with one hand, the other hand placed on her bosom. What does it signify? He said later, that there was a struggle between him and his mother, until her spirit reached the heart.

Evidently the soul passes through a series of subtle experiences, and Sri Bhagavan's touch generates a currrent which turns the soul back from its wandering into the Heart.

The samskaras, however, persist and a struggle is kept up between the spiritual force set up by his touch and the innate samskaras, until the latter are entirely destroyed and the soul is led into the heart to rest in eternal Peace, which is the same as Liberation.

Its entry into the Heart is signified by a peculiar sensation perceptible to the Mahatma - similar to the tinkling of a bell.

When Maharshi attended on Palaniswami on his deathbed, he took away his hand after the above signal. But Palaniswami's eyes opened immediately, signifying that the spirit had escaped through them, thereby indicating a higher rebirth, but not Liberation. Having once noticed it with Palaniswami, Maharshi continued touching his mother for a few minutes longer - even after the signal of the soul passing into the Heart - and thus ensured her Liberation. This was confirmed by the look of perfect peace and composure on her features."

Bhagavan however said that, Palaniswamy would have a higher and very evolved next birth.

We were sitting one morning in the hall in deep meditation. Suddenly there was the sound of the tap-tap of a sick. A tall blind Muslim was trying to find the entry to the hall with his stick. I helped him to come inside. He asked me in Urdu where Bhagavam was sitting. U made him sit right in front of Bhagavan and told him, "You are now sitting just in fron tof Bhagavan. You can salute him." The Muslim told his story. He lived near Peshawar and he was a moulvi (teacher) of repute. nce he so happened to hear somebody reading in Urdu about Bhagavan and at once he felt that Bhagavan was his spiritual father and that he must go to him. Blind as he was, he took the next train and travelled thousands of miles all alone, changing trains many times, till at last he reahed Ramanashramam. When asked what he was going to do next, he said. "Whatever Bhagavan tells me, I shall do." His immense faith made me ashamed of myself. How little did the man hesitatee to place his life in the hands of a south Indian swami. And what a mountain oof doubts and hesitations I had to wade though before I came to Bhagavan's feet in earnest!

There is a big division. Especially after British rule, we Indians are slowly out casting ourselves from the traditional roots of our spirituality. The highest goal of human today may just be to be greatly successful or earn huge money. These are the primary things that determine the greatness of a person.

Slowly, people are forgetting that there is something more than just living eating sleeping enjoying.

Read this -

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AN EXCERPT FROM LORD MACAULAY'S ADDRESS TO THE BRITISH PARLIAMENT, 2 FEBRUARY, 1835

"I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief, such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their selfesteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation."

It speaks for itself!

Steadfastness, we have to remain steadfast. endurance till they themselves come to terms!

not contesting your views, if one is comfortable with "partial surrender" and it helps one further ok with it, but one has to realise that it was just a concept only and there is nothing like partial or complete surrender! I was just looking further into "Surrendering" itself, when one recognises the Truth about Surrendering, then it becomes clear. I have tried to bring in the discernment in my post regarding surrendering.

We all want to surrender, and we know that if we know we are able to surrender then things will improve. Since we have "concepts" regarding full surrender, as to how difficult it is to completely surrender, mind has given way to what is called "partial surrender" and slowly when partial surrender also becomes difficult it will invent newer concepts of Surrendering! this is all because we have really not discerned as to what surrendering really is, what it means really! Udai, I have covered even this conversation as well in my huge post. i request you to read it and I am sure you will recognise what i saw.

Its a simple discernement and very important to get grasp of it for everybody. I felt relived, I don't have the burden of not being able to surrender!

It is a second matter whether complete surrender is realisation, lets not get there. We all talk about surrendering to God's will etc... so its really important to discern what surrender really is.

This incident would erase any doubts that may have arised. The essence of my post is communicated very easily in this incident -

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A disciple of a reputed Swami of South India, Vilakshananda, came to Bhagavan to have his darshan. With some hesitation he started telling Bhagavan about his guru's strict injunction that each one of his devotees should do so many thousands of japa daily and surrender the phala to the guru as their offering and that they were following it without fail.

Bhagavan smiled and observed: "Is it so? It is to be appreciated. So much gain for the guru with no strain on his part!" While Bhagavan was saying this, Muruganar entered the Old Hall. Turning to him Bhagavan said: "Do you know? His guru commands each one of his disciples to perform so many thousands of nama-japa and surrender the phala(merit) to him, as guru kanikkai (offering). After that will there be any balance for the disciples? It looks like one keeping the principal and surrendering the interest to the guru as offering. How do you appreciate this?"

Muruganar with tears in his eyes replied: "Bhagavan! Their guru is far better. He at least leaves the principal and demands only the interest. But this guru here (pointing to Bhagavan) is worse. He takes away the principal itself; then where is room for interest? He demands the devotees' mulam(principal) and vaddi(interest) all at once!" Bhagavan gave a benign smile enjoying the poet's joke with deep meaning!

What Muruganar meant was that Bhagavan wipes out the mind and the ego of his devotees.

We don't even have the Principal and the Interest. What can we do? How can we surrender then? We are already surrendered! This is the essence!

not at all, there is nothing to take negative pls excuse my english! really not good at it!

that is the whole point Udai, the thorn is unreal! thats what Bhagavan has been saying! we try to remove something that is not there and we get another thorn to remove something that is not there really! I tried to bring this into discernment in my huge post! That we are all caught up with the ideas of partial surrender and complete surrender and practice of both! when we discern, its clear that WE CANNOT SURRENDER PARTIALLY OR COMPLETELY for what do we have to surrender really? Even if one wants to partially surrender, what to surrender partially?

Yes, ultimately, teaching is redundant, this itself is the light of knowledge! its like one realises that one does not need another light to see the Sun! Sun itself is knowledge!

You said "if someone scolds, the person's face turns red even before he can remember this is unreal... for such a person this wont work"

Lets not talk about that some person udai, lets talk to each other! some person's face may turn red when somebody scolds that person, but that is irrelevant.

The reality is WE ARE ALREADY SURRENDERED, we just need to see this, when we see, we only can BE!