BioWare's Emmanuel Lusinchi, lead designer on Star Wars: The Old Republic, tells gamesTM that the quality of some competing MMOGs is more of a factor than how they are free-to-play as something that has caused them to rethink their approach to their MMORPG. Along the way, he does admit that they are "looking at" F2P: "The MMO market is very dynamic and we need to be dynamic as well," he says. "Unless people are happy with what they have, they are constantly demanding updates, new modes and situations. So we are looking at free-to-play but I can’t tell you in much detail. We have to be flexible and adapt to what is going on."

NKD wrote on Jun 14, 2012, 23:30:Why these MMO developers continue to think WoW is anything but an extreme outlier is beyond my understanding. You can't reproduce WoW because you can't go back in time and beat them to the punch. When it launched, and for quite a while after, it was the only retard-friendly MMO. Everything else had a huge learning curve or some other barrier to entry.

Retard-friendly! I'm thinking I should save that quote somewhere for future reference 'cause that's exactly how I think of WoW.

But now, years later, gamers are more comfortable with the MMO concept and want something that is catered more to their preferences, rather than a catch-all like WoW.

The problem is that the investors want to be able to fill their swimming pools with cash and dive in them.

A well-designed and focused MMO catering to a certain type of player may be decent...but its not going to bring the kind of revenue numbers that make headlines(and pools full of cash). No one really wants a comfortable sustained income from MMOs now...they all want billion-dollar cash-cows.

I think TOR could do well with a Free to play option. The pvp combat was pretty fun, I enjoyed playing huttball. The SP content...well it's just not that good. The flashpoints might be fun, I wouldn't know, I never got to play them because it was always too hard to find a group. If they simply offered a queue system like the pvp side has I think that could be something to at least check out.

Ugh and don't even get me started about the galactic trade network and mailboxes. They're going to put those on your ship...right?

The thing is... TOR is not a bad game. You can tell the devs put effort into it, and are continuing to put effort into it. Their design was simply flawed. They really should not have set out to make a MMO like TOR -- it tries to be too many things for too many people, like WoW. They should have looked at Rift, Guild Wars, and EVE and seen that appealing to a niche market wouldn't be a bad thing. Perhaps they could have went after the hardcore WoW vets.

WoW was a perfect storm in the MMO space. It launched when competition was lacking. It launched with a strong IP and a strong team backing it. It was "retard friendly" as someone here put it, but also offered top-end challenges... and it gained a foothold that remains difficult to break. Today, it is only surviving because it narrowed its focus to please the largest part of their player base (casual or semi-casual)... not every part of their player base.

Why these MMO developers continue to think WoW is anything but an extreme outlier is beyond my understanding. You can't reproduce WoW because you can't go back in time and beat them to the punch. When it launched, and for quite a while after, it was the only retard-friendly MMO. Everything else had a huge learning curve or some other barrier to entry.

That gave it the critical mass it needed to really take off. People literally had no other choice when it came to playing an MMO that was casual friendly.

But now, years later, gamers are more comfortable with the MMO concept and want something that is catered more to their preferences, rather than a catch-all like WoW.

Creston wrote on Jun 14, 2012, 22:03:The problem isn't the subscription model. The problem is that shitwick publishers all think that THEIR MMO can get 10 million subscribers. If they'd design a fun game that can be profitable with 100-200,000 subscribers, many more MMOs would be succesful.

Instead, all the fucking morons think like EA, spend a gajillion dollars on their "WoW-killer!" and fall flat on their fucking faces.

It's crazy how greed rarely leads to a great game!

Creston

Exactly.

There are plenty of good games out there that beetle along with their sub-1 million player bases quite happily. Eve, as an example, is a niche game that appeals to specific players, and despite the dramas etc they have continued to be a profitable and growing concern. They never wanted to become a wow killer and didn't break themselves to get there.

As for being right about TOR going F2P, that was obvious to anyone who played it after a month. Just nothing there to keep the player paying a sub for once they hit top level(what Red 5, and I assume others in the industry, describe as 'stickyness' irt their game Firefall and player interest/longevity).

ColoradoHoudini wrote on Jun 14, 2012, 22:07:Oh well, maybe in another 5 years when someone else comes out with a SW MMO.. it's have TRUE space combat, transportation freedom, a better AH interface, and have more innovations and less cookie cutter MMO mechanics.

I would love someone to take a stab at a sequel to SW Galaxies. The original had such great potential, but as we all know the execution was terrible. Sandbox style fits the IP better than theme park IMO.

ColoradoHoudini wrote on Jun 14, 2012, 22:07:How did SWTOR come out and not even match the current crop of MMO features? All that money and we got fantastic voice acting I know I eventually skipped through.

And here is the problem. Money spent on paying high profile voice actors in lieu of decent game design with a mind to interesting and fun gameplay.

I still hold to the fact that if you take away all the cinematics, voicework and flashy special effects moments, every game should still be fun to play on the basis of its core mechanics. The classic 'click skill and wait' combat of MMOs is old, tired and needs to be put away.

Oh well, maybe in another 5 years when someone else comes out with a SW MMO.. it's have TRUE space combat, transportation freedom, a better AH interface, and have more innovations and less cookie cutter MMO mechanics.

We never needed a SW MMO in the first place. We needed a decent KOTOR sequel with all the trimmings and stuff that they couldn't get in the first time around.

Damn monopoles Dont be happy , you will pay somehow for the 1.2 BILLION (they had to buy shitty Bioware too )cause they are the distribution mafia and they'll just increase the prices for all of us...

I remember when I asked on official forums of AoC to fire that complete idiot Gaute Godager they banned me ! And after abt 2 months they did get rid of him (even that they didnt unban me cause I started the storm; not that it mattered anymore I was already quitting that crap, finished all in less than 2 months, same as SWTOR.

So I want all the idiots who were lead designers to be fired and sued and the IRS to check this obvious money laundering scheme and maybe then I will think to buy something more from EA

I enjoyed it from 1-50.. some times.. but it was still every bit of the same MMO structure. The space combat was on rails and I felt confined even in space. They launched with an Auction House that wasn't very good at all (and that's being nice) and compared to a game like Rift, that seemingly came from a no-name house in Trion (I only see 3 games from them, and only 1 is live)..SWTOR looked like amateur-level gaming. How did SWTOR come out and not even match the current crop of MMO features? All that money and we got fantastic voice acting I know I eventually skipped through.

Oh well, maybe in another 5 years when someone else comes out with a SW MMO.. it's have TRUE space combat, transportation freedom, a better AH interface, and have more innovations and less cookie cutter MMO mechanics.

Viper114 wrote on Jun 14, 2012, 21:47:Frankly, it seems the only MMO that can last with a subscription model is WoW, and no other MMO really has the ability to copy that no matter how hard they try.

The problem isn't the subscription model. The problem is that shitwick publishers all think that THEIR MMO can get 10 million subscribers. If they'd design a fun game that can be profitable with 100-200,000 subscribers, many more MMOs would be succesful.

Instead, all the fucking morons think like EA, spend a gajillion dollars on their "WoW-killer!" and fall flat on their fucking faces.

Viper114 wrote on Jun 14, 2012, 21:47:Yeah, I figured this would happen. Frankly, it seems the only MMO that can last with a subscription model is WoW, and no other MMO really has the ability to copy that no matter how hard they try.

Now if only they could realize this with the Warhammer MMO and just make it completely free to play...

Rift is going stronger than ever. There is a way to compete...just do it better than WoW.

(With his "retirement" and fuck you attitude towards the fans) I'm starting to think George doesn't care anymore. And that's a good thing! Maybe SW will eventually be passed to someone that respects it's history and treats it right.

And maybe even to someone that's willing to actually pay the actors what they owe them. Probably not, but one can always hope.