Big Bull - My Mahindra Thar experience...& some mods

This is a discussion on Big Bull - My Mahindra Thar experience...& some mods within 4x4 Vehicles, part of the 4x4 & Off-Roading category; Dear All,
First of all, I would like to thank Team-BHP for providing an opportunity to gain immense knowledge about ...

First of all, I would like to thank Team-BHP for providing an opportunity to gain immense knowledge about a vehicle before finalising. For the past few weeks, I went through most of the threads pertaining to Thar and we have loads of information here. A BIG thanks to all the contributors. I want to do my bit by posting my ownership experience and details about little mods which I did which may help other fellow members. It is going to be little long as I will try and cover as much information in one shot.

First big question - Am I mad to buy a Thar ? I asked this question myself and many known people would have thought the same about me - because, I have sold my Ford Fiesta 1.6 Sxi Petrol to buy this Car !! - I guess I am not mad or Crazy as I took a well informed decision (atleast within myself) to go for it fully aware of what vehicle is it.

Ok, why did I buy this ? what made me to take this decision and why did I sell my Fiesta ? - Well, It is a Jeep thing Ok, a dream to own a Jeep has been from my childhood - I saw jeeps on the road, hill stations and thought, one day I should own it and drive. Recently this bug started bitting me more and started reading lots of stuff in Team-BHP about Thar. At the end it is a "Heart" thing - I just went for it.

At the same time, I cannot afford to keep two cars and also I do not need two cars. So, took a very hard decision against my younger daughter's wish and sold off my Fiesta (4.5 years old, 33000kms done) to one of my residential community member and funded it for Thar. (My wife and my elder daughter got convinced to an extent, but the younger one is not convinced even today)

But, the reality is, I bought it and I am using it as my One and Only Four wheeler - Now the answer to the thread title - Big Bull - My Enfield TBTS Red and my new Thar is very similar in colour and probably similar in Characteristics !! In my opinion, only few passionate people will buy and drive these type of vehicles - similar blood line - So, Big Bull it is for my THAR.

There were lots of negatives about having Thar as our only Vehicle - I had no choice if I had to own one - I had to compromise, but, on the other hand, I want to make it as comfortable as possible to use it as my only vehicle and also for my family. I am confident of achieving this to an extent, eventhough with some compromises - Let us see how far I can go with this.. It is all a question of adaptability which I am willing to.

90% Daily drive & 10 offroad - This is my requirement and I will slowly engage with fellow jeepers and start doing some offroading and enjoy the thrills.

Buying experience :

Engaged with India Garage, Chennai and test drove the vehicle (actually I made up mind and the test drive was just an eye wash anyway)

They had a White, Rocky Biege and Silver ready in stock - But my family preferred a Red, because my bike is Red

Booked by paying Rs. 25000 advance and the second day it was invoiced from Nashik Plant

It took 10 days to reach India Garage Poonamalle works

They brought the vehicle to their showroom in the city for PDI by me

Did an extensive PRI (pre-registration inspection) and identified only problem with coolant leak

They took the vehicle back to their works and did a great job of quickly arresting it, road tested it and satisfactorily delivered it

The sales guy and the PDI service person was extremely helpful and I had a great experience with them

I opted for external Tata AIG insurance with 50% NCB which worked out to Rs. 14300 against a full insurance quoted by the dealer of Rs. 26000

Eventually my OTR was around 8.35 Lakhs and I was happy.

Vehicle at their yard before registration

Took delivery on Ganesh Chaturthi day - It was a holiday for India Garage, but they accomodated the delivery as a special case. But, later learnt that they have 9 more deliveries lined up as many customers preferred that day.

They did a small Pooja for the vehicle and I thanked all of them and gave a little token gift to my sales person (Me to the left with the sling bag)
Took the vehicle straight to BP gas station in St.Mary's Road and filled up 40 litres of Diesel (That is what it took as I guess the dealer had filled 20 litres already)
Then took the vehicle to 3M Car Care for a Underbody coat
It costed me Rs. 3390
The 3M car care is a new facility in OMR, Chennai and the staff headed by Mr.Srivant and service Head Ganesh did a very good job in taking care of my new Thar and delivered it perfectly. The process was as follows :

They washed the under body thoroughly

Covered few parts with sheets which does not require coating

Then sprayed each and every portion of the Sheet metal visible under the body and also under the wheel wells

Did cleaning and delivered

@ 3M

Only after that, I brought it home and my family was very excited to see the new Jeep and since it was a holiday, many little kids in the apartment complex surrounded it with awe. Very happy to see their excited faces.

The next day, I took my family to a temple in Mahabalipuram and had break fast and retured. My Dad sat in the front and my wife, 2 daughters and mom sat at the back. Since it was a nice road and short drive, there were no complaints and they enjoyed it. My Mom (73 years) could climb from back OK. But, for some elderly people, you may have to give them a helping hand.

My experience with the vehicle :

Sitting and driving position of the vehicle is extremely good.

Great Visibility and top of the world feeling

Off centre steering - I got used to it in a couple of minutes and I do not find any problems whatsover

Very little squeaking noises which I can fix soon

The A/C is extremely good for now with three levels. I just use only level 1 for now and Thermostat at 75% coolest

Rear seat comfort - my family did not complain. But, for the long drive, I do not know and I am sure it will not be as comfortable as a front facing seat

The OE headlights are powerful enough. But, I still added a pair of Driving lamps, just in case

It is so easy to drive the vehicle in city traffic. Just need to put it on 2nd gear and it moves smoothly

I did not take it so far beyond 2200 rpm and trying to tune the engine - I have completed only 700 kms so far.

The engine is extremely responsive and there is abundance of power

The gear box is smooth and easy to operate - sometimes, the reverse gear is an issue and we need to change to some other gear, before trying reverse, then it slots !

The clutch pedal is pretty good and not tight

The brakes are good, but they are not as crisp as some of the cars, but manageable

The metal is solid and the paint quality is really good

The OE Bridgestone H/T tyres are good enough for my purpose and I did not upgrade (I wanted to retain the Black steel rim looks)

The Drive :

Just idle it for a minute as per guideline and start, the engine comes to life nicely

The engine sound is nice and smooth

The vehicle can be easily moved using 2nd gear from stops in city traffic which is pretty comfortable

The pickup is extremely good and very smooth. But, currently I am not revving beyond 2200 rpm and will gradually increase

There is a difference is smoothness of the engine and I feel it is extremely good at 2000 rpm. for now

The vehicle is nice an stable as I have not pushed it beyond 90 kmph

The steering is responsive and I am used to the handling now, pretty easy and just like a car

The roads leading to my apartment are dug up for Metro and Sewage work and I am already enjoying Off Roading everyday with the front IFS doing its job nice and smooth

The brakes are not Great, but good, and I had a Panic braking once and the vehicle stopped as required

What I do not like :

The flapping noise of the canopy over 70 kmph is annoying

The OE horns are less effective

The front seats could have been better, i.e., more cushioning and supports - It looks really flat

The door locks, sometimes it does not lock in one try, need to check and correct

The dust which comes through the back flap is bad. Need to do some mod to make it flush fit

The windows glasses are very reflective and it gives you an illusion that there is some vehicle to your right, whereas the actual vehicle is on the left side - need time to adjust as it is a problem in highly reflective sunlight

The external noise - My younger daughter hates it and that is why she calls Thar, an Autorickshaw .

The A/C blower vents are very tough to direct towards the driver, just managing now and need to find a way

The coolant has gone down by 2 cms since I took delivery (700 kms run) - I am monitoring it

The dash board console has gaps and does not look very professionaly fit

There are no internal lining/pads on the rear door, it is just bare metal - M&M could have done up the interior a bit more

Many of the exposed nuts and bolts on the Hood and Fenders need to be cared for, or else, they will rust quickly

They could have provided a safety nut for the spare wheel, it looks awkward to put a number lock which we use for suitcases !

The wiper blades sometimes goes back and rest on the Windshield rubber beeding after use. Need to correct

The rear suspension is a problem as the vehicle jumps. I have reduced the air pressure to 32 psi and it seems better now. But when driven with additional load, it was not bad at all

So, how to make it better as It is my only Drive !

Extensive reading of Thar Threads and modifications done by our fellow members inspired me and I started taking some quick steps in that direction. I would like to thank our forum members with whom I communicated and some from whose posts, I just got the ideas - SJCherian, 4x4addict, davidashish, cpbopanna, manveet, carot_eater, Rajith, Samwagon, Thar4x4, Desertfox, Thar'ed and also Behram Sir for commenting on some my earlier posts about Thar and guidance.

Modifications/Changes : (limited budget mods was my Mantra)

Added a Hella Red Grill Horn (I wanted something which is not too loud)
Cost - Rs. 1100
Added a Super Sport Driving Lamp - I considered Hella 500FF which was costing Rs. 5000, but settled on this Taiwanese one which costed - Rs. 1600 per pair (my usage may not warrant a Hella)
Horn Wiring Relay - Rs. 375
Labour - Rs. 600 including 2 separate switches
Got this work done from M&M before deliveryAll Parts bought from G.P. Road - Varity Auto Accessories - Mr.Sonu
Fixed the Lights on the existing bolt location in the plastic sheet connecting the Chassis and the front bumper - I wanted it in a lower position than the Head Lights and since I did not go for a revised bumper/bull bar, this location was fitting perfect and It does not rattle Two switches fixed nicely inside the dash for Horn and extra light

Hella red grills as not too loud, but much better than the factory horns
Also added a 12V charger to the setup

Bought Noodle mat at Rs. 75 per sq.ft and I think I bought around 30 sq.ft to cover the floor. I used the rubber mat template which came from the factory to cut this to size. This is a rugged mat, but not to 3M's quality - BTW 3M charges 240 per sq.ft. This really keeps the car clean without any marks - reasonable cost and good stuff

Bought a Pioneer DEH-X3690UI head unit for Rs. 4900 and fixed it
Two sets of wires up to behind the front seats and I have placed 2 x Yamaha Home theatre surround sound speakers for the time being. I will later try and fix my Focal amp and my components.

Rear Number plate - I did not like the white bill board stuff and I wanted to integrate the number plate to the existing rear bumperette
Dismantled the pieces and took it to a iron grill fabricator
He removed the welded bolting clamps from the bumper
Placed the whilte board on the bumper, marked positions for bulb holes, number plate holes etc., drilled the holes
Fitted the light straight on to the bumper, fixed the number plate and done - back on to the jeep
Costed Rs. 100 for the work, now it looks very integrated

Centre Arm Rest - Courtesy - Samwagon thread
Cost - Rs. 850
Assembled the arm rest
Cut a small plywood to size for the floor (behind the hand brake)
Used the existing 3 holes behind the hand brake lever on the upper floor to fix the plywood
I had to crawl under the vehicle to tighten the bolts, but it was a quick work

Next comes the big thing.. How to arrest some external noise and also how to improve efficiency by making A/C more effective ?

I know it can never come close to my earlier car in sound levels unless I put a Hard top - I may do a HT later, but definetely not for the next 15 months or so, as I cannot afford it now - So, till then, how to insulate it atleast a little - Budget allocated Rs. 5000. I wanted to take the chance. Two key posts gave me the direction - One from Rajith who did an insulation at Thodupuzzha using Rexine and Thermocol foam and Davidashish using Cork Board and foam

Researched and came out with this idea :

6mm Water proof plywood for the base support
10mm Nitrile Rubber Foam also called the Elastomeric foam which they use in HVAC to provide both Thermal and Sound insulation. I looked into various products like Thermocol, regular foams, Rock wool, Glass wool etc., Considering it is a pure DIY effort, Rock wool and Glass wool were side lined and also they did not fit the budget(also Rock and Glass wool are given in big bundles which I do not need). This Nitrile foam provided the best of all worlds and was within the total budget. Also, the nitrile foam I bought is Fire Safety Class O which is good
Bought rubber adhesives and needed quantity of Black roof upholstery fabric - just to match the interiors of the jeep

Started removing the Canopy at 7 a.m. on Saturday (13th September) and completed the task by 1 a.m. Sunday -

Now, one of my trusted friends from our apartment maintenance company assured his presense and help for the day to make it happen - he is a plumber - big thanks to him)

First I cut the plywood to size 4'x3' in 2 pieces

The assistant held the plywood from outside and I marked a rough sketch from inside the vehicle

Then made the exact measurements using measuring tape and corrected the drawing

Used Jig Saw to slowly cut the lines to dimensions

Same process for the 2 pieces at the back (next to the opening)

Now, 4 pieces of plywood ready (base support)

I had previously measured the window opening when the Canopy was on (I could not figure out any other way to trace the window dimensions to the plywood)

Measured the drawing on to the plywood, cut it with Jig saw using a thin blade to take it through the curves

Placed the 10mm foam on top of the plywood, cut it to size

Placed the fabric, left some space for overlap, cut it to size

Screwed the Acrylic to the plywood and applied some silicone sealant between them

The outermost layer is plywood

Inner first layer is Acrylic (just the window portion)

Then Pasted the Nitrile Foam

Then pasted the fabric, stretched it to the sides and finished it

Now, moving on to the roof portion

Same process, exact measure for both sides of the roof is 4'x2'

Used 4mm foam board for flexibility

Pasted the foam , then the fabric, finished

Pre-pasted Velcro strips on the open side (top) of the foam board to align with the 2 horizontal roof rails to fix

The adhesive process was sticky and need to use good quality gloves to do this job - I used surgical gloves for a tight fit and they were torn because the adhesive pulled the gloves - bad experience

They all are light weight materials and I am not loading any big weight to the Thar. This work was completed by 5.30 p.m. and I was completely drained out as it was purely without any help. Drenched in Sweat and exhausted

My plumber friend suggested to continue the work and finish it off as he was taking off the next day. I do not want to loose him as he is a smart guy. So, continued with the work.

Fixing :

Removed both the side seats for ease of access

Placed the side portion and aligned them properly

Drilled 6mm holes straight through the plywood and made a mark on the inner steel frame

Then used the same drilling bit and slowly drilled the steel

Placed the plywood back and bolted them

It was a tight fit, fixed both sides. For now, it is being held only on 4 bolts

Then used 2 U clamps from the 1" iron pole (rear end) to tie the rear side

Similarly fixed the rear pads, just using clamps as there is no provision to bolt them

So now, the plywood is secure from top and the rear (2 positions)

Then pulled the canopy, inserted the edge over the factory rail and put that in position - It does not go inside as the metal rail was hitting the plywood. No other way, but to cut the plywood by 5mm. I used the Jig saw vertically and cut that 5mm off the plywood which was very adventurous as I had to take care of not hitting the saw to the jeep B pillar - I passed the test.

The bottom portion just sits on the Vehicle frame

Then fixed the roof portion, slightly bent the foam and pushed it on to the slot. Tied it with the velcro

Fixed the side rails on the B pillar and this is the 3rd securing point for the side insulation

Pulled the canopy over, fixed the side bolts and was happy to see that.

Oh man ! i forgot to clean the acrylic and I was so tired that i did not want to remove the canopy again and thought, Ok, I will do it next weekend.

Overall what did i do to spoil the vehicle - Just total of 8 x 6mm holes drilled in the Canopy frame and all others were a couple of clamps and fixing within the existing rails, slots - I was very scared to do any more damage to the new vehicle - so 8 holes are the utmost compromise.

You will notice the side steps painted black. Got the idea after reading cpbopanna's thread. Just used a Flat Black spray paint for the same.

a BIG QUESTION - people may ask - Why did you buy a Jeep if you cannot enjoy the open air rides ? a very valid question - I want to enjoy the Jeep as my daily drive, some off roading and to travel some distances to hill stations etc., with my family, but not very inclined towards driving an Open Jeep - but that is not an excuse - even, if one day, I get the idea of doing an open jeep thing, when I can spend 15 hours to make and fix a stuff, I hope to have the patience to remove the canopy (everyone has to remove) and additionally i will have to remove 8 bolts and 8 clamps to take that insulation material off - That is all and it can be done (remember, there are no sealants etc.,) simple fix and remove stuff.

Before writing this review, I drove the Thar for around 40 kms and the noise levels have come down definetely, it is very muted now. Since the A/C was already doing a good job (not very hot in Chennai now), I can't do the comparison, but theoretically it should be better. A very evident and measurable achievement is, the flapping Canopy noise is reduced so much. It was flapping like mad over 70 kmph and today i just pushed it to 90 kmph and there was no noise (it is fitting tight against the plywood and there is no air pressure I guess) - I can improve it still by placing velcro's.

The interiors looks nice and I am going to add some thin 1" or 2" Canvas belt or wood reeper horizontally between the inner roof frames to have the roof liner nice and tight.

There is one more addition to be completed... a Better audio

I have removed the JL Audio XR components from my fiesta
I have made a Fibre Glass sound bar using those 2 x 6.5" components + tweeters
I am going to place that sound bar on the Rear Top Centre Frame Cavity (made to size)
It may not suit the real audio parameters as it is going to be installed in between the side seats on top vertically - unfortuntely I do not have any other place to have my components and also with some volume for the speaker drivers to work (doors are ruled out, adjacent to the wheel wells won't suit this component and also sound from below which I do not want) - so this is again a compromise. Once done, I will get a pair of 3" or 4" speakers for the front doors and overall it should be good. I will post photos once I get that completed. How I made it ?

Simple wooden structure
Covered it with Felt fabric
Applied Fibre Glass adhesive resin
Applied Fibre Glass thin sheets
Finished, sanded, painted, fixed speakers and tweeters
Tested, sounded OK
But, the finish is not something great - As it was a handicraft , it looks something like a dog bone, but looks good from some angles.
Anyway, i hope it will do its job, light weight, no pressure to the frame and should sound good.

I think I have covered extensively what all I have done with my Thar and again taking Mr.Behram's and other friends' words, I have NOT altered or fiddled with anything Technical, Mechanical - These are just cosmetic changes and I would like to keep it that way. At the end 8 holes drilled.

I sincerely hope this thread along with so many other Thar Threads may help some interested buyers and enthusiasts. Once again, big thanks to Team-BHP and our members.

Looking forward to your comments, good or bad which will help me learn through the process.

Welcome to the T-Red owners communityand very happy to see the ownership thread has been posted. Very good read and many functional modifications that you did yourself including the soft top insulation ! Now I need to get a lot of Knowledge Transfer from you about sourcing a lot of stuff.

Congrats on the Thar! Looking BEAUTIFUL!
One question with those ply wood boards.
If you have a side impact and it fractures the wood, would it not cause some serious injuries to people sitting at the back?
Why not just go with a metal hard top instead, or maybe metal inserts instead of wood, just like it was done in Tini's Jeep (look up for 4X4Addict's Thar thread)?
Cheers,
Deepak

It's a Jeep thing. Also, because the Thar is more comfortable to live with (power steering, more pliant suspension, air-conditioning etc.), it's a realistic option for those who were earlier driving modern cars. You wouldn't be able to live with a crude, slow CJ340 / MM550.

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My Enfield TBTS Red and my new Thar is very similar in colour and probably similar in Characteristics

Now that's a garage with character!

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Rear seat comfort - my family did not complain. But, for the long drive, I do not know and I am sure it will not be as comfortable as a front facing seat

You should probably get a large & comfortable front facing seat made in the after-market.

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The front seats could have been better, i.e., more cushioning and supports - It looks really flat

Something that can be easily solved at an after-market seat chap.

The rest of the issues (fit, finish etc.), well, you'll just have to live with. It's unfortunate that Mahindra couldn't get these right and resorted to jugaad in so many areas. Maruti provided better fit & finish 30 years back in the Gypsy!

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I will later try and fix my Focal amp and my components.

Be sure to hide them properly (for risk of theft).

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I hope to have the patience to remove the canopy

My Jeep is simpler and I still don't have the patience / time. Better to train someone for the job. I simply send it over to Milestone for refitting the canopy back and they do a stellar job of fixing it just the right way.

Welcome to the T-Red owners communityand very happy to see the ownership thread has been posted. Very good read and many functional modifications that you did yourself including the soft top insulation ! Now I need to get a lot of Knowledge Transfer from you about sourcing a lot of stuff.

Thanks Sushil for all the support during the pre-buying process. Knowledge transfer - anytime.

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Originally Posted by GTO

A Thar always makes my head turn around for a second look . Congrats!

Thanks GTO for your wonderful comments

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Originally Posted by starter

Congrats on the Thar! Looking BEAUTIFUL!
One question with those ply wood boards.
If you have a side impact and it fractures the wood, would it not cause some serious injuries to people sitting at the back?
Why not just go with a metal hard top instead, or maybe metal inserts instead of wood, just like it was done in Tini's Jeep (look up for 4X4Addict's Thar thread)?
Cheers,
Deepak

Deepak, thanks and your suggestion well taken. Yes, I thought about couple of things, Fire Safety and Personal safety. The foam which I am using is Class 0 and it is safer. For the plywood, I am going to order a fire retardant paint. But, someone banging the jeep from the side is an issue - I agree. Hope that does not happen. While praying for that, even without these, if someone bangs the Jeep from the sides, there is going to be impact. I am not discounting the fact that Plywood will split and it can cause more damage, but Unless I go for some bigger modification to make it solid, there is no way to protect that impact. I will continue to think to make it better. Thanks for the suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Srikanthan

Congratulations on your new buy. A new Thar and you are already doing a lot of DIY!

Migrating from a 'low-floor' Fiesta to a 'high-floor' Thar will certainly make you feel King of the road and the cars will now look small from you high window!

Same color Bull and Thar! It will be a great garage collection to see!

Thanks Srikanthan - I love DIY and one thing I made sure was not to spoil the basics and just doing some cosmetic stuff. With respect to the colour, Infact, I wanted to go in for a Rocky Biege, but Red was my family choice and they related this to the bullet colour which made sense to me. Thanks again for all your encouraging comments

Swami

Thanks cpbopanna - your thread was an inspiration in many ways. You have done some great mods on your Thar and your Italian HT looks fantastic. I love them

Swami

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Originally Posted by cpbopanna

Congratulations Swami, and a heart welcome to the Jeep Club (where the heart rules and not the head!)

Wish you many happy years of Jeeping!

Mod Note: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD!

For reasons I just cant fathom, you have sold a car on every indian petrol-head's 'affordable dream cars list' and bought yourself a vehicle which is, well, lets just say far from modern.

I drove the Thar a while back and while I did like the feel of its back to basics design, with no particular creature comforts around and stuff like that, I cannot understand how / why you would sell a widely loved and revered car like the 1.6!! Fiesta to buy yourself this vehicle.

Maybe its just me, but, if I had a 1.6 Fiesta, I'd have a hard time spending even a day away from the machine, I mean, a discreet exhaust, a simple tune perhaps would have made it a drivers dream.

For reasons I just cant fathom, you have sold a car on every indian petrol-head's 'affordable dream cars list' and bought yourself a vehicle which is, well, lets just say far from modern.

I drove the Thar a while back and while I did like the feel of its back to basics design, with no particular creature comforts around and stuff like that, I cannot understand how / why you would sell a widely loved and revered car like the 1.6!! Fiesta to buy yourself this vehicle.

Maybe its just me, but, if I had a 1.6 Fiesta, I'd have a hard time spending even a day away from the machine, I mean, a discreet exhaust, a simple tune perhaps would have made it a drivers dream.

This is where the saying comes into play: "Its a Jeep thing you! You Wouldn't Understand". (Just Kidding Buddy) Once bitten by the Jeep bug its pretty hard to overcome.

I always Would prefer my Jeep to my car, Yes! No comfort, Rattles Etc. But, The pleasure or driving and owning one has to be felt.