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That's just it. In the grand scheme of things, there is nothing we can really do about it.

Sure there is. If we disagree with who is representing us we can throw them out every election term. The problem is due to extremely poor campaign finance laws their replacement could very well be just as bad.

Sure there is. If we disagree with who is representing us we can throw them out every election term. The problem is due to extremely poor campaign finance laws their replacement could very well be just as bad.

No we can't, you have proven it right here in this thread. I knew 4 years ago Obama would do just what he has done, the writing was on the wall. MANY people here argued with me thinking I was an idiot and everything I would post as evidence you guys shrugged it off sayings things like "that's not real proof", "he didn't really say that" etc......... just like you are still doing. But I could, to some extent, see where people would vote for him, we had 8 years of a Republican President and people wanted a change, he was the first black candidate, I can understand how important that is to some. But for the life of me I cannot understand how ANYONE can still support him after what he has done and is doing to this country. Seeing what he has done and you are still defending him. As I said, I agree that the Republicans have done a poor job with who they are offering but ANYONE is better than Obama.

Yup!
I'm historically Republican. However, I've always been a believer in having Dems at the helm at some frequency..to help offset things. And visa versa. To prevent one party from having too much power and sink its roots in too far.

Looking back we've we've enjoyed good times with Dems at the helm...I enjoyed the Clinton years. And I've enjoyed good times under Repubs of course...heck, I don't think anything can top the Reagan years...and I thought Bush senior years were smooth sailing too!

But I was getting tired of the downhill trend of 2 terms of Bush junior...and at first thought it would be a good idea to get a Dem in for a term. But wow...I'd never have expected this kind of plummeting of things.

And look at the garbage both sides are gathering for us to vote in soon....yeah, "We're screwed on each end of the spectrum" again!
How do we NOT allow it to happen?

Slimming down to a 2 party system has cost us more than most will be able to comprehend. If we have any chance of getting our country back, we must get a 3rd party into the mainstream system. It is far too easy for 1 party to make deals with another. Having a 3rd party drastically complicates things…

We need to start by voting out as many incumbents as possible, on all levels, all the way down to city officials, local judges, etc., if we ever expect to have any hope. The US was once without doubt, the greatest country in the world. We now are not, by a long shot. This has been building up for a long time. People only concerned with what affects them, directly and immediately, with no thought to the overall picture…

Some, OK most, Americans need to get out of this country for a few months and I am not talking about going to Cancun(meaning- tourist places. Just because you have been to Disney World does not mean that you have experienced America, if you follow…) and see how life really is. And when I say get out, I am not meaning by doing it through the US military, as that is quite different than being alone without having the support and backing of the gov paying for everything. It will not take long for people to understand what they have no hope of learning here…

We are 1 financial crisis away from regressing to the equal of the dark ages. How many people could survive if there was no money or stores to go buy food, weapons, ammo, clothes, medicine, etc. We have become so complacent that the possibility is not even considered by most...

No we can't, you have proven it right here in this thread. I knew 4 years ago Obama would do just what he has done, the writing was on the wall. MANY people here argued with me thinking I was an idiot and everything I would post as evidence you guys shrugged it off sayings things like "that's not real proof", "he didn't really say that" etc......... just like you are still doing. But I could, to some extent, see where people would vote for him, we had 8 years of a Republican President and people wanted a change, he was the first black candidate, I can understand how important that is to some. But for the life of me I cannot understand how ANYONE can still support him after what he has done and is doing to this country. Seeing what he has done and you are still defending him. As I said, I agree that the Republicans have done a poor job with who they are offering but ANYONE is better than Obama.

mnosteele you are bringing literally no reasoning to this discussion at all. First you throw accusations and then you fail to answer questions asked. You still haven't answered the Bush question and why you think he isn't a socialist for doing the same thing on the bank and auto industry. You have been so incredibly wishy washy bailing on the discussion one minute and coming back the next it's impossible to even have a realistic discussion with you. Your statement is such that anyone who doesn't agree with you is simply close minded. That's ridiculous to say the least. If you want to start answering the Bush question that's great. I will discuss it with you, but if you are going to keep being wishy washy well that's just proof you aren't looking to be reasonable.

Roody, you haven't answered a damn question in this thread so give it a rest. What question do you want answered? Do I think Bush is a socialist as well.... ANSWER HELL NO! Wishy washy????????????????? About WHAT????????????

Roody, you haven't answered a damn question in this thread so give it a rest. What question do you want answered? Do I think Bush is a socialist as well.... ANSWER HELL NO! Wishy washy????????????????? About WHAT????????????

I answered the questions you asked and you know it. You asked about Obamas associations and I responded. There is little I can do if you can't read. Your hypocrisy is mind-blowing. Obama does something and its bad. Bush does the same thing and it's not. Your bias is showing big-time. As for being wishy washy you made the claim you were done and yet here you are. Unlike you I've been on both sides of the aisle and can be reasonable. The more you complain that everyone doesn't agree with you the more ridiculous you sound.

Sure there is. If we disagree with who is representing us we can throw them out every election term. The problem is due to extremely poor campaign finance laws their replacement could very well be just as bad.

You seem to believe that elections are real. I bet if everyone voted NO for Obama, Obama would still win, then what would you have to say? You don't want to grasp the concept that what you see as being the government, is NOT. Until the day you do, you'll continue to beat the drums for this countries demise by supporting something or someone that is merely a tool.

Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces people into thinking they can't lose. -Bill Gates

Whatever Roody, it's the world according to Roody. You never answered anything and you know it.

Originally Posted by mnosteele52

Your just like the media, support Obama no matter what he does and says. Ok, explain his associations with Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Al-Mansour, George Soros, Tony Rezko, Van Jones, Derrick Bell and the list goes on and on. Seriously explain his relationships with these people, why do you and others ignore these things? It's not a conspiracy theory when he has definitive ties with all of these people, real relationships.

Whatever Roody, it's the world according to Roody. You never answered anything and you know it.

Where is the answer to this? Explain the associations?

Little I can do when you don't read. Go check out post #29. I answered your question. You obviously didn't read it. Here it is. I even bolded it for you.

Your answer is contradictory. You state the bailout is proof of Obama's socialism, but it's not proof that Bush is one. That makes literally no sense at all due to the fact Bush implemented it and agreed with Obama's continuation of it. Your argument although one I disagree with (As do socialist groups themselves) would be more believable if you hadn't made the bank and auto bailout such a key part of your argument.

As for the other I have in no way deflected your questions and I have no need too. Every President is beholden to people that contribute to their presidency. Obama is unfortunately no different in that matter then Bush, Clinton or Bush again.

You seem to believe that elections are real. I bet if everyone voted NO for Obama, Obama would still win, then what would you have to say?

That is delusion at it's best. Nothing wrong with disliking a President, but that's the sort of claim that kills credibility in the process.

You don't want to grasp the concept that what you see as being the government, is NOT. Until the day you do, you'll continue to beat the drums for this countries demise by supporting something or someone that is merely a tool.

By and large I don't disagree with Jawz's statement, but people can do their part just like he stated. If you don't like something do what you can to change it. If you would rather be lazy and think you can't change a thing that's up to you.

Are you sure you aren't a politician Roody, because you skirt issues and questions just like one, you still have not answered my question.

Dear God. Okay, I answered it in far fewer words before, but here we go again. I'm no fan of Obama's past associations that you mentioned. They clearly don't serve him well from a personal or political perspective. I also know that Bush had some questionable associations also.

Now it's your turn to answer some questions.

1. Bush and Obama BOTH supported the bank and auto bailout. Are you as critical of Bush for that as you have been with Obama? And how does it make Obama a socialist on those issues, but not Bush?
2. When you say you are done in a discussion do you usually backtrack?

We basically don't have to do anything due to the 80/20 Pareto principle. Basically, 20% of the politicians make 80% of the decisions that affect our lives. 20% of Wall St. makes 80% of the money. 20% of the Nazi's killed 80% of the Jews, etc. But it's overall effect no matter the application...is gross inequality and imbalance. These imbalances are always corrected.

1. Bush and Obama BOTH supported the bank and auto bailout. Are you as critical of Bush for that as you have been with Obama? And how does it make Obama a socialist on those issues, but not Bush?
2. When you say you are done in a discussion do you usually backtrack?

"President Bush erred when he said he had ‘abandoned free market principles to save the free market,’” writes Freddoso. “What he had really done was write his successor a blank check.”

So, while it was President Bush who started the U.S. down this road, it was President Obama who “took full advantage of this unlimited political line of credit, [and used] TARP as a justification for limitless executive meddling in economic decisions best left to private stakeholders,” writes Freddoso.

With the precedent set, an “unlimited political line of credit,” and a desire to “fix” things, President Obama introduced “car czar” Steve Rattner to GM:

Rattner fired GM’s hapless CEO Rick Wagoner, something he had no right to do (even if it was a good idea from a business perspective). He later forced out GM’s acting chairman and recruited its new chairman, Ed Whitacre. Rattner’s task force hand-picked staff, micromanaged GM’s relationships with its suppliers and foreign subsidiaries, chose the facilities it would close, chose the brands it would kill, set the pace at which would shed dealerships, even at one point considered forcing GM to move from its iconic Detroit headquarters."

I NEVER backtracked. Bush did not want control over the industry, he was trying to help it. I disagree with both, the government has no business interfering with the private sector like that. Obama wanted to control the industry, just as he wants to control the banking industry (he made companies take money that did not want or need it) and healthcare. All are the infrastructures of our economy, he wants to control them all.

But you took one part of what I said and ran with it ignoring everything else I said...... just like the liberal media. Explain Obama investing tax payers money in alternative energy that will not work, explain how government healthcare is not going to bankrupt this country. We already have government healthcare, it's called medicare and medicaid, look how well those two are managed and you think a total government healthcare is good???? Stay out of it and let the private sector have competition and keep prices competitive and affordable.

"President Bush erred when he said he had ‘abandoned free market principles to save the free market,’” writes Freddoso. “What he had really done was write his successor a blank check.”

So, while it was President Bush who started the U.S. down this road, it was President Obama who “took full advantage of this unlimited political line of credit, [and used] TARP as a justification for limitless executive meddling in economic decisions best left to private stakeholders,” writes Freddoso.

With the precedent set, an “unlimited political line of credit,” and a desire to “fix” things, President Obama introduced “car czar” Steve Rattner to GM:

Rattner fired GM’s hapless CEO Rick Wagoner, something he had no right to do (even if it was a good idea from a business perspective). He later forced out GM’s acting chairman and recruited its new chairman, Ed Whitacre. Rattner’s task force hand-picked staff, micromanaged GM’s relationships with its suppliers and foreign subsidiaries, chose the facilities it would close, chose the brands it would kill, set the pace at which would shed dealerships, even at one point considered forcing GM to move from its iconic Detroit headquarters."

I NEVER backtracked. Bush did not want control over the industry, he was trying to help it. I disagree with both, the government has no business interfering with the private sector like that. Obama wanted to control the industry, just as he wants to control the banking industry (he made companies take money that did not want or need it) and healthcare. All are the infrastructures of our economy, he wants to control them all.

But you took one part of what I said and ran with it ignoring everything else I said...... just like the liberal media. Explain Obama investing tax payers money in alternative energy that will not work, explain how government healthcare is not going to bankrupt this country. We already have government healthcare, it's called medicare and medicaid, look how well those two are managed and you think a total government healthcare is good???? Stay out of it and let the private sector have competition and keep prices competitive and affordable.

Your bias is showing. It's amazing how you only see one side of the story when it comes to politics and before you even attempt to offer up a bogus rebuttal to that you can ask anyone who has been here since the beginning. I was a Republican for the first 30 years of my life and I am only 38. In fact I fought hard for Bush in 2000 and worked on his campaign. I ALWAYS consider both sides of the story which is why it's laughable to hear a partisan like you attempt to spin it otherwise.

As for government health care, Obamacare has individual mandates which will require insurance for american citizens. The upside to this is the hospitals and by extension the tax payers will not have to assume the debt of those who aren't covered. Instead although the cost upfront will be there it will be recovered by bringing down overall costs that otherwise have been there previously due to the uninsured.

Btw, even Republicans (Apparently not you though) know that the health care system ISN'T affordable and something has to be done. The disagreement between the two parties is on how. Only you in your dream world thinks it's somehow affordable for the entirety of this country.

Lastly, the accusation of you backtracking has to do with you saying you are done and than coming right back in. It wasn't a political statement.

Originally Posted by mnosteele52

You don't get it and never will, I'm done here. Many of you here argued with me 4 years ago about Obama and I stand by everything I said then. This country is FAR worse off that it was 4 years ago because of one person.... Obama, and all of you still support and defend him. I value many of you as intelligent people that it why I cannot fathom why you can't see it, HE IS RUINING THIS COUNTRY AS WE KNOW IT!

Well I hope and pray your right, but things are not pointing that way. Only time will tell, but I do believe we are nearly out of time.

Originally Posted by Roody

By and large I don't disagree with Jawz's statement, but people can do their part just like he stated. If you don't like something do what you can to change it. If you would rather be lazy and think you can't change a thing that's up to you.

Oh I will vote, even though it doesn't mean a damn thing. Remove George Soros and company from the picture and we may have some sort of chance. Good luck with that!

Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces people into thinking they can't lose. -Bill Gates

But, wait, it is not on mainstream news so it cannot be true. But if it is FOX News it is definitely not true.

People who believe what they hear or see without actually doing their own research or finding the sources are ignorant and yay for the government on having control over the majority. Gun control, let's ban all guns, wait, just semi-automatics. Let's force Americans to buy healthcare and cause even more economical collapse. Owe the IRS? Well, no more passport/leaving the country. GMO crops/cattle etc. that are knowingly causing health problems and cancers. selling unpasteurized goat milk, goat cheese, yogurt? well, be prepared to be arrested.