If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Nor do they correspond to what I have experienced. We have seen a real explosion in the planting of neonic treated row crops in recent years in our area. We not only haven't seen an overall deterioration in bee health but our bees have generally much better in recent years and this isn't just a random claim, it's one borne out in actual frame counts in California. Our varroa control is much better though, hmmmmmm.

"People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

My bees were in California all year, not exposed to agricultural spraying or crops, only residential, and they died also. I'm inclined to chalk up my loses to lack of treatments, mite overload and subsequent viruses.

Properly cared for Almond hives should have been fed many times since November... .

We all face pesticide challenges and set backs from time to time and constant vigilance is required to get by in this day and age. That being said those I know doing the best coping with these challenges are feeding a lot and way in to nutrition which can take a lot of stress off a hive.

Well said John.

What really kills me is, the said keeper moves his/her hives near a commercially grown crop, then cry's foul IF they get sprayed.

whats more disgustings than pesticide poisining is Scam articles and Tree huggers falsehood. after reading it, is misses a ton of info, references problems in CA with NO names No credits, no author... no facts. just thory, from someone in another country...... Just as well write how the uptight knickers in the UK were contributing to global warming....

Wish the Moderators here were as hard on this stuff as they are other things........this post should be wiped

So the colonies were strong in November, after going through a massive drought in the mid-West this past summer. And the bees crashed by mid-winter due to neonics? Sounds about right except the neonic part.

How about an alternative explanation that seems to me much more credible. Colonies under drought conditions can't raise winter bees, and populous colonies of old bees don't survive the winter.

This has got very little to do with 'commercially sprayed' crops. The neonics are almost always applied as a seed-coating at planting time and the scale of the plantings defies belief. The USDA figures - from memory, are that a total of around 243 million acres of US crops are seed-treated with Clothianidin. That is ten times the area of the entire country of Scotland, which is no small place. The figures included 92 million acres of neonic treated corn - which is virtually the country's entire corn crop; close to another 100 million acres of wheat, soybeans and canola, and the rest was cotton.

That raises the question: is there anywhere in the entire USA where bees do not have access to systemic neonicotinoids? According to some studies, around 98% of the poison applied to the seeds at planting time, is lost into the soil, where it can remain toxic for up to six years. So if a farmer plants a follow on crop of 'untreated' plants, it makes no difference because there is enough neuro-toxin in the soil to make the next six years of crops toxic to bees and other pollinators.

The Purdue University study by Christian Krupke estimated that there was enough Clothianidin on a single corn seed to kill 200,000 individual bees. That does not happen in practice, because most of it is lost into the soil, but the tiny amount that rises through the plant into the pollen is still 7,600 times more toxic to insects than DDT was.

Another study concluded that the 'half life' of Clothianidin on some clay soils, was as much as 19 years - so after 57 years, there would still be 1/8th of the original neonicotinoid left to poison following plants. And that is from only one planting. The reality is that farmers are planting neonic treated corn, season after season, on the same ground; so the possibility exists that hundreds of millions of acres of US farmland has been permanently contaminated with neonics for decades to come. In other words, if the neonics were banned today, the residual poison would continue to kill bees and other pollinators for many years to come.

whats more disgustings than pesticide poisining is Scam articles and Tree huggers falsehood. after reading it, is misses a ton of info, references problems in CA with NO names No credits, no author... no facts. just thory, from someone in another country...... Just as well write how the uptight knickers in the UK were contributing to global warming....Wish the Moderators here were as hard on this stuff as they are other things........this post should be wiped

Your reasoning is so faultless and your concentration on the facts is so accurate, that I'm lost for words. Are you familiar with the phrase 'ad hominem attack' - that's a legal way of saying don't read the message - just shoot the messenger. It's the classic strategy of industry schills. Your last comment implies you don't agree with Freedom of Speech and free discussion?

Another study concluded that the 'half life' of Clothianidin on some clay soils, was as much as 19 years - so after 57 years, there would still be 1/8th of the original neonicotinoid left to poison following plants. And that is from only one planting.

Got a reference or is 'another study' as good as it gets.
Where was it published and who was the author.

when making up an article on bee death, and directly linking it to Neonicotinoids you need a bit of proof to back the story. You sound like your making an anti neonicotinoids article using the beekeeper as the frount. With no facts and no references, might as well just run that in the daily paper. It will get alot of attention there,

just waiting for questions and comments from my neighbours on this one . . .

With no facts and no references, might as well just run that in the daily paper. It will get alot of attention there,

That is exactly what happens.
The UK press run the same story 'all the bees are dying' over and over again.
Even the quality press do this, the Guardian and the Independent.

The non beekeeping general public think we have CCD due to erroneous press reports, (we don't), and imagine that our bees are on the way out.
In actual fact they are doing reasonably well in the UK although I expect heavier losses than usual this winter as it has been cool and wet for the past 8 months.

He has issued the article in this way to encourage other bee-farmers to come forward and tell what has been happening every year since 2003. The fact that 10,000,000 colonies have been lost, and apart from Dave Hackenberg, almost nobody has 'gone public' should tell you something about the kind of pressures that are being brought to bear: politically, commercially and socially. -borderbeeman

Quite a few beekeepers have "gone public," I think. Why wouldn't they be willing to report losses to colony collapse (CCD)? So far, no definitive cause has been pinpointed, as far as I know. I've read quite a few accounts even here on Beesource of people who provide information on hives they have lost to CCD or CCD-like symptoms. Hackenberg was the first, but far from the only to report losses. And much larger losses by individuals have been widely reported in the media.

I'm not sure that the losses sound quite so massive when the numbers are reported a different way. (http://www.ars.usda.gov/News/docs.htm?docid=15572) "Ten million colonies lost" attracts far more attention than "11 percent of colonies per year" attributed to CCD-like losses.

I just wish more beekeepers had the guts to write up their story and go public. - But obviously they fear criticism and loss of business.

A look at this thread so far shows exactly what is thrown at those that dare to speak out. The pro neonic propaganda machine uses it's dirtiest tricks to discredit those who go against the mighty chemical industry, as they fear massive losses when these products get banned.

A call to all those posters who demand to see the name of the author of the report: identify yourselves so that we can check your credentials!

The pro neonic propaganda machine uses it's dirtiest tricks to discredit those who go against the mighty chemical industry, as they fear massive losses when these products get banned.

A call to all those posters who demand to see the name of the author of the report: identify yourselves so that we can check your credentials!

I am not pro neonic. It's just that they are so much better than the organophosphates and,having been a farmer, I know how important insecticides can be. I also have not seen any real evidence that the neonics are that bad for bees, both in my own bees and in studies.

I'm pretty well exposed if you click on my profile or go to my web site. Probably more transparent than you are!