Ian,
If a policy has been violated, please just say so and I am sure the right thing will be done. I am sure no ill intent was meant by posting an announcement of this contest at bonsaiTalk and I certainly hope that one day all forums can co-exist without such nonsense.
Besides an announcement in the next issue of Bonsai Today, AoB will continue to let all interested parties know about this "first of its kind" contest. We do not require entrants to join AoB to enter, nor are we seeking new members by having this contest. Of course, you can always forbid any of your members to participate, if you so wish.
That being said, your post above is off topic and serves no real purpose, conversation here is a little more direct and polite than at other forums. Please be advised that any further off topic posts will be removed. Complaints can be made to any of the editors here by email or PM and will be dealt with in a timely fashion and professional manner.

Will,
I am so sorry you read my "tongue in cheek" post in such a way...it was merely a comical quip extension of what Attila had discussed in the previous post to mine.
Just because I happen to "moderate" on another forum, does not exclude me from having a personal opinion and was quite a funny remark I thought - given how some members just "dive in" between sites with links, never to be seen again or actually contribute more in a positive manner to the overal success of any site.
How you can infer we can "restrict" members from even entering the competition is beyond me!
The "online" Bonsai World is indeed a small place and the fact the post remains there over at bT shows we are quite willing to help your competition in the spirit of goodwill conveyed. Again I do not see the original posting as "off topic" rather factual, and that it is not nonsence on my part at all.
In the same spirit of co-existance, I shall certainly have to spend more time here on the AoB, since I certainly recognise some names and are seriously interested in how the competition develops.
I wish you well with it.
Best Regards,
Ian. (Just a simple bloke with a FULL TIME job and a Hobby)

Hey, Ian - glad to see you here.
I feel a little awkward, since initially I thought that this thread is for Editors-only, so my suggestion was not really intended for public reading - not that there is anything wrong with the suggestion.
But, anyway, as you know, misunderstandings often happen on the Internet (for lack of the communicative value of body language) - so let's hope that this event will be fun to follow.
Cheers,
Attila

Ian,
As a long time reader of your words and a happy customer (I still love those pots) I am glad to read your words here. By all means, enjoy your stay and please let us know of any events coming up.
Will

To all,
Ron Martin posted the following words at bonsaiTalk concerning this contest:
"BTW I did check and it was the same contest that AOB approached ABS on cosponsoring. It was discussed amoung the board members and a vote was taken.I would imagine AOB has been notified of the outcome by now. If not then let me know and I will see what happened to that notification"The facts are, this contest at AoB was never mentioned to ABS. A contest at KoB, yet to be announced, was discussed for sponsorship, first with Pauline Muth (president of ABS) who put it in front of the board for approval. The board turned the idea down this time. Pauline notified me personally on this matter a few weeks ago.
As Bonsai Today has sponsored a few contests for AoB, we thought we would offer the chance to sponsor a contest at KoB to other magazines and still will.
Again, this contest here at AoB always has been sponsored by Bonsai Today since its inception and was never brought to any other publisher.
Ron then went on to say, "Funny it had the same name when proposed to ABS." Again, the facts are that the copy of rules sent to ABS (both to Pauline Muth and Bob King) were plainly titled "KNOWLEDGE OF BONSAI ****** CONTEST RULES (Rough Draft)" (note: name of contest blocked out here in order to keep it quite until released) and this contest is and always has been titled "North America vs Europe Photo Contest". I highly doubt the two could be confused by anyone.

Anyhow, I think everyone will be quite surprised at the outcome of this sponsorship and the end product of the results, but that's all I can say for now.

Enjoy yourselfs and may the best region win,

Will

Last edited by Will Heath on Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Andy Graham posting the following statement about this contest at bonsaiTalk:
"Also, from a posting on another site by Will. ..Bonsai Today was involved from the very beginning....(oops,that statement has been edited out ).That's not a big deal except that it was conveniently left out of the first "announcement" here....and later denied.(and now edited)I'm sure it was just a mistake on Will's part.There is no way that man would lie."Andy,
No statement to that effect by me has been edited out on any forum (see my post above this one). When this contest was first in it's inception, I talked to Wayne from Bonsai Today and we arranged a sponsorship. Later after the rules were completed I emailed him the same for his opinion, at this time the prizes were donated. So as I said, Bonsai Today has been involved in this contest since the beginning.
The very first post by Paul there at bonsaiTalk (the announcement you refer to) plainly states "Sponsored by Bonsai Today Magazine" it was not left out and was never denied.
Bonsai Today is and always has been a sponsor of this contest. I hope that satisfies your curiosity and that we can now concentrate on the real issue...which is the contest and not mudslinging.
Have fun,

Will,
There is a difference in sponsoring and helping to develop.
Atilla on bT forum said..."No vendor was involved in developing this idea, including Bonsai Today. Once the plan was laid out, we contacted potential sponsors. That's how Bonsai Today got involved."
There is a difference in as Atilla said on bT forum.... "graciously agreeing to sponsor" and "obtaining the rights to pictures and words." by sponsoring.There is a profit motive in there for any willing to look.I don't have a problem with that at all.I just think it should be stated up front.
I apologise if I missed your post that remains somewhere stating that Bonsai Today was "involved from the very beginning"I thought I had read it on Bonsainut and when I went to check,I noticed that you had edited that particular post.I have been mistaken before...if I am on this occassion you have my apologies.
I'm not faulting Atilla or you.I was just trying to point out some discrepencies in what was being said on other forums.A small misunderstanding perhaps on my part.To some,though,this may be an important element.
I still think the AoB staff should have made the contest announcement prominent on their own home page before announcing on other forums.But that is just a personal opinion.
I wish the contest nothing but the best.I think it is a great idea.Educational and inspiring.And fun for the participants.I'm thinking of trying to sneak a few trees past the welcoming commitee myself.World class is a very high standard though.I'm not sure my little trees would meet it.
andy

Andy,
Thanks for clarifying your thoughts and feelings on this matter, I appreciate it. I understand there may be some confusion on this matter and I agree that developing and sponsoring a contest is two different things.
This contest was developed by AoB. Bonsai Today is a sponsor and, as with some of our other contests, will no doubt publish the winners in Bonsai Today, hence the need for permission to do so.
We are also working on a unique grand prize with the folks at Stone Lantern Publishing and Bonsai Today, but that information will be released at a later date, if it succeeds.
By all means enter the contest, it is open to all even though not all will make the cuts. In the end, it is better to have tried than to wonder what might have been.

Hi guysA question for you. Regarding the Shohin category. Normally you will judge Shohin display, and not only one tree. Shohin is very much based on the concept of interaction between the small trees displayed together, and not alone.
The focus must be on the overall beauty of the display, with a high focus on the seasonal approach as well as the quality of each tree, wit the main tree (top tree on the table) as most important and the binary tree (placed beside the main table) as the second most important tree.
My question is: Do you take this into account in the competition? Will a Shohin or Mame-display be judged higher than entries of just one Shohin-bonsai? Or do you not accept a Shohin-display?
Shohin is about displaying more trees together, not just presenting a single one, differing this part of bonsai from the traditional bonsai.
Best regardsMorten Albek

Hi Morten,
Thanks for bringing up some questions that we never anticipated, you sure know how to keep us on our toes Morten.

Morten Albek wrote:

A question for you. Regarding the Shohin category. Normally you will judge Shohin display, and not only one tree. Shohin is very much based on the concept of interaction between the small trees displayed together, and not alone.

While this is one very important aspect of Shohin, I think you'll also agree that a quality Shohin must also have the ability to stand on its own merits. If this were not the case, than the artistic ability that is required to create a believable, quality Shohin would be replaced with the artistic ability to create a display, both important, yet both requiring different skills. You process both skills, as you well proved in our last display contest.The focus of this contest is on the trees and the overall image they present. We realized from the start that Shohin needed to be judged against other Shohin and created separate categories to handle this. The thought of display was brought up, but we decided to leave that for our upcoming annual display contest.

Morten Albek wrote:

Will a Shohin or Mame-display be judged higher than entries of just one Shohin-bonsai? Or do you not accept a Shohin-display?

For this contest, we are focusing on single bonsai, single Shohin, and single Forest/Penjing/Suiseki entries. The tree is being judged, not the display.
Please keep in mind that our Mame and Shohin contest is coming up and in such, both single trees and displays will be judged. Bonsai has so many different aspects to it that we have found that, in order to fairly represent all aspects in a contest, multiple contests must be had.
Thanks again for bringing up these valid points and helping us to clarify the contest.
Good luck,

Thank you for your kind answers Will.Some Shohin will not be satisfying to enter a contest like this though, because they are made to fit in the overall display supporting other Shohin, the main tree e.g., and will by nature not present them selves strongly when viewed alone, because of this. This has noting to do with the quality of the tree, only the aesthetic and power of the tree when standing alone.
A pine or juniper will stand stronger than a loosely formed flowering shrub, but together they present beauty and the seasonal approach.
This is partly why I asked this question, and due to the way of approaching Shohin in normal displays.
Also to make us all aware of the way of approaching Shohin, that is still not well known, because this branch of bonsai is still new.
Best regardsMorten Albek

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