Speaking of mortgage rates and the housing market's chances of getting stimulated right now, I noticed there is a European bank that is offering negative mortgages, in other words, investors are so nervous about the global economy that they are paying people to borrow their money. People can buy a house and pay back less than they borrowed. In my lifetime, I have never heard of that. It would be nice if it could keep the housing market strong in the U.S..

And speaking of how the Republicans have contributed to slowing down the economy, I don't know how big the impact of the 2018 tax "reform" will be on hurting our economy, but they did scale back the amount that Americans can deduct for mortgage interest. That deduction, although still partially in place, was originally passed decades ago to stimulate the economy by encouraging people to buy homes. Because when people buy a home, they spend a lot on American goods. Along with other economically damaging policies the Republicans passed, their tax bill is one of them.

As for how America will fair if this recession really happens as predicted, it is the reset that I have felt will knock the extreme Right down and bring us back into balance.

I believe we will all be okay through it. Perhaps another meditation night is in order for us to fortify ourselves and send healing to others.

I hear you on the mortgage for student loan debt. My concern is what sector, government or private, should I be in for work. I started preparing for this downturn, based on predictions on this site in 2018. So I feel ok if we hit a downturn b/c I have prepared for it.

Well, if you have student loans with the Federal Government, they offer a Public Forgiveness Loan Program, if you work in certain non-profits. That's the only way I'll see the light of day with mine. Of course, I know my ultimate source is God, so in that sense, there are infinite possibilities.

Unfortunately, private loans (such as those from banks, etc...) are not eligible.

What sucks for me...is that I got grants for college; but because I couldn't get healthcare, I had to take loans out for medications, doctors visits, surgeries...Plus, I had to work fulltime when I did get healthcare, so I wasn't able to get assistantships. It was like the perfect storm. So I had to borrow $89,000. But the government charges me 5%, so I've accumulated $17,000 in interest alone.

I feel hopeless about it...but I know I, along with all of us here, are light-beings and light-workers...and because of that, we won't be left behind. I already live paycheck-to-paycheck working a fulltime job with a part-time job, with occasional odd jobs, like pet-sitting, etc...And I live pretty minimalist...I don't buy things...my only splurge is food because it's like my only joy (but that's for another forum). And I ain't even talking about eating out. I'm talking about frozen gluten-free pizzas, etc...

So for me personally, I don't have to cut back on spending so much, as I don't already spend that much. I may have to cut back on my retirement savings, however. I save about 10%. But that may be too much.

And for the holidays, I usually get my mom something small, and send others cards or make small monetary donations to charities or libraries. It helps restrain spending when you don't like other people.

It really hurt that I had to pay in $976 for that Republican tax cut; but, it comforts me to know the uber-wealthy can buy that extra yacht. At least I can sleep at night.

Plus, being the first in my family to go college and get a Master's degree...that helps me too...

Yesterday, the 2 year bond yield rate was higher than the 10 year bond yield rate. Typically, the 10 year has a higher rate, as an enticement to keep people's money tied up longer. As people buy bonds, the bond price goes up and the yield goes down. Thus, since the 10 year yield is down, it is because people are buying the 10 year bonds. Investors buy the 10 year bonds during times of uncertainty and when they fear the economy will slow down or go into recession.

Investors pull money out of equities (stocks) to invest in bonds. Thus the stock market will go down as money flows into bonds. What Wall Street is fearful of is a "panic" where investors start selling stocks en masse, which would cause severe market swings and remove confidence in the market (and confidence in money hidden in your mattress mentality).

Trump has no clue what he is doing (well, other than the potential manipulation of market or stock swings based on his tweets (remember how Boeing's Stock did when Trump said he was going to cancel the purchase of a new Air Force One....that seemed like a test <if his tweets impacting a stock price> and he's done it a lot since).

Reduce your debts, keep to a budget, put off luxuries or extravagencies to build up a money base, in case you lose your job or suffer other forms of financial setbacks. Live simply for awhile, you might find you like it better and life is less stressful......and we all could use less stress.......especially with the Drama Queen in Chief in power.

Mine are with the Fed government and yes they offer a lot of repayment options. I have always lived minimally I just had a lot of medical debt. Got that taken care of. 😊 it does seem like life as it is is unsustainable. Something has to give and that seems to be the economy.

2008 never went away. We never had a boom after the last crash in the UK, i'm not sure how things were in the USA?

I've often thought the stock market is over valued. you can buy a share in Google for $1,165 and you get back something that's worth 0.00000028713849263776906% of the company. That's pretty much zero. it's only worth is that one day maybe in the future hopefully you can sell it to someone else for more. It really is the emperors new clothes.

Baby boomers are retiring and therefore not spending as much, millennials are coming in at the other end but they aren't interested in 'stuff' as much as previous generations and their work is less secure and often underpaid.

It depends on how old you are and how much time you have to ride out the market fluctuations. If you aren't planning on retiring in the next 10-15 years, you should be ok to "ride it out" because the economy will likely recover in that time frame.

That being said, you can move some portion of your money to safer, less equity intense choices to reduce "the hurt" if/when the market dives (called timing the market). I mostly got out in Feb 2018 and have been in a lot of bonds. I didn't suffer through the volatility of 2018. I also missed out on the last 15% rise in the market we saw this year, so there is that. Hopefully, with the run towards bonds, my bond funds will do well and I'll make up the difference I've missed the last several months.

I will be back in the market, and heavily into equities, once the decline occurs and it looks like the market settles down a bit. There were a lot of fluctuations in 2008, but the market eventually settled down. The timing is a hard thing to do, because you never really know where the "bottom" is (just like we don't really know where the "top" is). But, so long as I'm close to the bottom, that is good enough. I got out a touch early this time around, but I would have been a wreck in 2018 with all the wild swings in valuations.

That mortgage scheme is the logical endpoint of this round of financial auto-cannibalism the world economy has been engaged in since 2009. And financial auto-cannibalism is the endpoint of our whole 500-year old paradigm of extractive, interest based economics. So it's important to keep in mind that while Trump is changing some contours of our economic predicament, we'd still be hurtling headlong to an economic breaking point regardless of who's in the White House.

With this big picture in mind, I don't think our left-right binary is particularly helpful as we navigate the end of the current economic paradigm. The political left has bought into the same dubious assumptions as the right: that endless growth is possible; consumerism is a sign of health; and a world divided between winners and losers is desirable. Tellingly, even putative radical left parties, whenever they come to power in national parliaments, only rejig a few things here and there in order to soften the blow to the losers of our economic landscape.

Faced with the fact that our economic infrastructure is crumbling, I think the best solution would involve encouraging communities and regions to experiment with their own economic models. Since we're entering a period of profound converging crisis, we need the sort of organic ingenuity that is best incubated at the local level. So what I'm really trying to say is; even if we elect a Democratic president in 2020, we shouldn't immediately think we're in good hands, economically speaking. He/She could choose to hamstring state- and municipality-based economic innovations in favor of unimaginative top-down directives (read about the example of Wörgl, Austria and its thwarted stamp scrip currency to see how the interests of centralized, national institutions can strangle creative problem-solving.)

Just did a meditation, the full moon certainly helped. Visions have been clearer than ones previously this year, where its been murky and tangled.

- December (not given the year). Stock market drops significantly.

- Stores go out of business in the weeks before Christmas. Shutters are down, customers are on one side waving money at the staff on the inside. Customers are scratching their heads. "It's Christmas," they shout.

- White House: Lights are off, no one's at home. I'm drawn into the situation room. Pence is there with men around the table. Paul Ryan is there (please see below). Pence is looking at a screen with an image of a tanker on it.

- Palace of Westminster is shrouded in black. We're in mourning, either someone has died or democracy is dead.

- Russia is celebrating, there's fireworks above the Kermlin. Putin is doing a jig. At the time I was meditating I put my hands up to my hair and removed hair grips. Letting my hair down.

- Traders on the NYSE floor have handcuffs on and being told to stop. I think this is a metaphor, their hands are tied and to stop trading.

I asked for hope:

- People are leaving their homes with cooked turkey's and walking to their neighbours to share. Determination.

- Churches are lit up, homeless are being allowed in to shelter. Bunk beds are installed basements. "Are you allowed to do this?" "Who cares?" comes the reply. Watch for empty churches bring taken over by flash mobs, who have skills to keep the electricity and heat on.

- Love and empathy is around, pink bubble. It's quieter than normal, the younger generations lead the way.

**Paul Ryan shows up in my visions frequently when it comes to American politics. When I see him in my visions I don't always assume he will be there, it's more about the influence he has, for me he represents the pre-Trump Republicans***

As you will see if you click on the link and follow along, begin by sending the healing to yourself, then to someone you love and then to everyone in your circle and our circle and then the whole world.

I will be meditating individually (not on line) tonight at 8:30 EDT along with Michele who will be on the west coast.

"...even if we elect a Democratic president in 2020, we shouldn't immediately think we're in good hands, economically speaking." - Coyote

Agree about many of your points, including the cyclical nature of the markets.

But I don't equate the two parties at all in contribution to the mess we are in, in the using up of precious resources, both natural resources and human, the continuing to treat the earth as an endless supply house and sewer, and the many ways the Republican Party, the party of the corporation, has been the driving the economy and our civilization off a cliff.

Another way to think of Coyote’s warning ... if a recession begins, the effects will really start to be felt around the time of the election or after. If a dem is elected, she or he will have to clean up the fascist goldfish’s mess, just like Obama did. The economy will be seen as the new president’s fault, because that’s when the effects will be most felt. “Dems mishandled the economy!” Historically, the economy does better under a dem, but try telling that to republican voters.

The safest form of investment is Treasury Bonds because the government always has a way to pay it's bills. US Treasury Bonds currently give a small return of around 1-2%, it's a way of holding your money steady in uncertain times. In Germany they have negative bond rates, meaning investors are paying the German Government to lend the German government money. It sounds crazy but so many people have rushed to buy bonds that the rate has turned negative. (The more people who buy bonds the lower the rate offered). That's the price people are prepared to pay for a rock solid investment. Bonds are more like insurance really, rather then an investment.

Gold has also historically kept it's value against inflation.

The best advice is to not keep all your eggs in one basket. keep a diverse portfolio.

trump will try with all his might to keep the economy pumped up until 11/20, but he won't be able to pull it off, and the US economy will fall on his watch. There are too many warning signals. Too much global instability and fear, and the tongest bull market in history is on its last gasp. Without his "economic boom" message, trump can't get re-elected. Simple as that. A strong economy is a big reason many supporters give trump a pass on his otherwise vile behaviors.

Consider this: 1)Trade war is escalating, and China just dug in. There's zero way trump can win it because China's going to wait him out and deal with the next admin. 2) US stock market already aggressively broke through key up trend lines, which means there's an 80% chance it's going lower. Much lower. 3) US bond market is already signalling a recession - best case scenario is 6 months out (February), but more likely by December. 4) US corporate earnings forecasted to be much lower in 3Q and 4Q of 2019, which is another reason for stock market to decline. 5) US national debt is at crisis level. Household debt and student loans are higher now than in 2007. Sub-prime lending started again. 6) Fed Reserve doesn't have enough tricks left to stimulate/correct a declining economy. 7) Russia, China and India are already shifting away from US dollar as dominant world currency. It will be truly dreadful for us when the rest of the world joins in, and US dollar dramatically deflates in value. 8) Boost from trump's tax cuts and upward momentum from Obama era policies has worn off.

Still working for now: Low unemployment, consumer spending, housing values.

So true: Trump's tax cuts were a misnomer. They were tax cuts for the ultra wealthy. It was a tax increase for the middle-class. and that hurts the economy.

What I learned long ago in Economics 101: when you give extra money to the rich, it doesn't trickle down to lower economic classes. The rich spend their extra money on foreign goods and services, not on American.

When you give extra money to corporations, it also doesn't trickle down. It sends a short term boost to the DOW because investors who are wealthy get hopeful, but it isn't sustainable, just like most of Trump and the Republican Party's transfers to the wealthy aren't sustainable.

Regarding my previous comment, I got drunk on words and was trying to allude to meta philosophical themes that really aren’t meant for the limited space of a forum post. It was not my intention to invoke mealy-mouthed “both sides do it”-ism with regards to the current political landscape. I don’t want to distract more from the topic of this thread, so that’s all I’m going to say.

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