One report says pirate NGO barred by request of US, France, and Switzerland.

In Germany, the Pirate Party has sent a candidate to a state senate; in Sweden, the party has actually elected members of the European Parliament. But whatever its successes, the Pirate Party still won't be able to sit in on proceedings of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), a UN body that sets international rules for trademarks, copyrights, and patents. (WIPO also resolves certain disputes over who should control Internet domain names).

In a closed-door session yesterday, WIPO officials approved several groups for observer status, but delayed ruling on the Pirate Party's application. The delay will be until at least 2013, and comes despite the fact that the WIPO director-general recommended approval. The application came from Pirate Party International, a non-government organization that represents the major European pirate parties (political parties themselves can't apply.)

"I am concerned that the WIPO is not interested in the dialog with this part of the civil society that thinks that the time for a massive reform of the copyright systems has come," PPI co-chairman Gregory Engels wrote in a blog post today.

"This decision is really distressing," wrote the European Parliament's youngest member, Swedish Pirate Party MEP Amelia Andersdotter. She cited a report that the delay took place after objections were raised by a few WIPO member states, including the US, Switzerland, and France.

WIPO officials wouldn't comment on the decision, except to confirm that the delay took place.

86 Reader Comments

I understand that this is basically inviting a lamb to review a slaughterhouse, but isn't this political discrimination? The Pirate Party almost certainly don't hold the same views as most people involved with WIPO, but they clearly care about the future of copyright. Isn't this unethical?

I understand that this is basically inviting a lamb to review a slaughterhouse, but isn't this political discrimination? The Pirate Party almost certainly don't hold the same views as most people involved with WIPO, but they clearly care about the future of copyright. Isn't this unethical?

1) Yes, it is.2) Yes, it is.

It's a meeting of the world's evil empires, did you really think fairness and ethical behaviour would factor in?

I understand that this is basically inviting a lamb to review a slaughterhouse, but isn't this political discrimination? The Pirate Party almost certainly don't hold the same views as most people involved with WIPO, but they clearly care about the future of copyright. Isn't this unethical?

It's highly unethical. But it's not as though the US and its allies have been paying much attention to any code of ethics of late (just look at the case against MegaUpload - so many violations of NZ law so far, and the case is barely started). It's a shame they'd rather cling to the current copyright model than open up any meaningful discussion on the issue. Hopefully that'll change in the near future, because the way things are going sure as hell isn't sustainable in the long term.

"I am concerned that the WIPO is not interested in the dialog with this part of the civil society that thinks that the time for a massive reform of the copyright systems has come," PPI co-chairman Gregory Engels wrote in a blog post today.

Implicit in dialog and reformation is the notion of compromise. Are the pirate parties ready to compromise or is this a take no prisoners platform?

"I am concerned that the WIPO is not interested in the dialog with this part of the civil society that thinks that the time for a massive reform of the copyright systems has come," PPI co-chairman Gregory Engels wrote in a blog post today.

Implicit in dialog and reformation is the notion of compromise. Are the pirate parties ready to compromise or is this a take no prisoners platform?

Not saying it's not the case here, but compromise isn't necessarily implicit.

How have I missed hearing about a political "Pirate Party"? (off to go find out more)

What rock have you been living under? It's been a few years since we first had this party (more of a loose affiliate of multiple countries individual parties I believe) start up. First in the EU, and then I've heard of some up in the North East in the US.

How have I missed hearing about a political "Pirate Party"? (off to go find out more)

What rock have you been living under? It's been a few years since we first had this party (more of a loose affiliate of multiple countries individual parties I believe) start up. First in the EU, and then I've heard of some up in the North East in the US.

There was a long time when I would never read articles that had anything to do with politics/government/law. Reading an article about how government treats software patents, or such, would make my eyes bleed.

I like code. It's simple and does what I want. People are inconsistent and, in some cases, incoherent.

How have I missed hearing about a political "Pirate Party"? (off to go find out more)

What rock have you been living under? It's been a few years since we first had this party (more of a loose affiliate of multiple countries individual parties I believe) start up. First in the EU, and then I've heard of some up in the North East in the US.

There was a long time when I would never read articles that had anything to do with politics/government/law. Reading an article about how government treats software patents, or such, would make my eyes bleed.

I like code. It's simple and does what I want. People are inconsistent and, in some cases, incoherent.

Ah. Quite true. The problem comes when those in politics/government try something, and if you aren't reading about what is going on you miss it and your chance to object/complain in a timely fashion.

I understand that this is basically inviting a lamb to review a slaughterhouse, but isn't this political discrimination? The Pirate Party almost certainly don't hold the same views as most people involved with WIPO, but they clearly care about the future of copyright. Isn't this unethical?

1) Yes, it is.2) Yes, it is.

It's a meeting of the world's evil empires, did you really think fairness and ethical behaviour would factor in?

Exactly so please my friends in Europe get more young people to Vote for the Pirate Party.You have a chance to make a real stand on many issues.Get out there and do something.For me in the USA it will be an extremely hard thing to get a Pirate Party in Power but in Europe it might be a different Tale.I hate my US Government.And I hate the MAFIAA and will make sure I never allow them to get into my finances.Buy & Support Local & Indie Art !Long live the Pirate Party.

Implicit in dialog and reformation is the notion of compromise. Are the pirate parties ready to compromise or is this a take no prisoners platform?

Depends, are the copyright absolutists ready to compromise? Given how they keep demanding more and more power and ever increasingly restrictive laws, I am exceedingly skeptical. I suspect this was a move to keep an opinion that contradicts theirs out of the discourse.

Implicit in dialog and reformation is the notion of compromise. Are the pirate parties ready to compromise or is this a take no prisoners platform?

Depends, are the copyright absolutists ready to compromise? Given how they keep demanding more and more power and ever increasingly restrictive laws, I am exceedingly skeptical. I suspect this was a move to keep an opinion that contradicts theirs out of the discourse.

You think? Personally, I think they just forgot the Pirates' address. This should all be resolved shortly.

"I am concerned that the WIPO is not interested in the dialog with this part of the civil society that thinks that the time for a massive reform of the copyright systems has come," PPI co-chairman Gregory Engels wrote in a blog post today.

Implicit in dialog and reformation is the notion of compromise. Are the pirate parties ready to compromise or is this a take no prisoners platform?

That would depend on whether you define compromise in absolute terms, or relative to the status quo.

Definition of absolute compromise:"each side is willing to accept an outcome that isn't exactly what they want, but allows the other party to have some of what they want" Under this definition I suspect the pirate parties would be far more willing to compromise than the copyright maximalists. Since the current status quo of the law is overwhelmingly skewed toward the copyright maximalists, any reasonable compromise position would be a big victory for the pirates. Under this definition, the existence of copyright is itself a compromise between providing a method for authors/etc to monetize their work as if it was a traditional manufactured good, and allowing the public the freedom to communicate freely.

An example of a compromise under this definition would be: 20 years max copyright term (10 years if you don't register the work), DMCA-style safe harbor/takedown system for user generated content, and reasonable civil penalties based on estimated actual damages for large scale or commercial infringement.

Definition of compromise relative to the status quo:"each side is willing to give the other some desired benefit that they currently lack under the status quo"Under this definition, there really isn't much room for the pirate parties to compromise, because the status quo is so far in the maximalists favor already.

A compromise position under this definition could be: copyright maximalists get a method to request takedown of sites dedicated primarily to direct or indirect infringement (in a way more effective than domain name seizure and less troublesome than arranging an armed raid), pirate parties get bigger and more enforceable penalties for invalid DMCA takedown requests (including penalties for requests where the requester was the copyright holder, but the takedown was invalid because of fair use).

Are the pirate parties ready to compromise or is this a take no prisoners platform?

As far as I understand, they are looking for reasonable laws, not to completely abolish copyright.

Drizzt321 wrote:

trevnorris wrote:

How have I missed hearing about a political "Pirate Party"? (off to go find out more)

What rock have you been living under? It's been a few years since we first had this party (more of a loose affiliate of multiple countries individual parties I believe) start up. First in the EU, and then I've heard of some up in the North East in the US.

We apologize, but your application to hang out in the hen-house has been denied.

Sincerely, Farmer Brown.

Ah, but who is the Fox and who is the Hen? We could do the power and wealth test, and call the powerful wealthy party the Fox.

Ostracus wrote:

Quote:

"I am concerned that the WIPO is not interested in the dialog with this part of the civil society that thinks that the time for a massive reform of the copyright systems has come," PPI co-chairman Gregory Engels wrote in a blog post today.

Implicit in dialog and reformation is the notion of compromise. Are the pirate parties ready to compromise or is this a take no prisoners platform?

Jumping the gun aren't you? Is the other side ready to compromise? How about we get all parties together and start the discussion before we start throwing mud?

I understand that this is basically inviting a lamb to review a slaughterhouse, but isn't this political discrimination? The Pirate Party almost certainly don't hold the same views as most people involved with WIPO, but they clearly care about the future of copyright. Isn't this unethical?

1) Yes, it is.2) Yes, it is.

It's a meeting of the world's evil empires, did you really think fairness and ethical behaviour would factor in?

Oh, FFS. Is Switzerland now numbered among these "evil empires" who believe unauthorized distribution and jacking of copyrighted material is harmful in some financial way?

I think this article would benefit from a short description regarding what pirate parties are, I had no idea, and had to go to WIkipedia to find out.

Perhaps their next microsoft article should include a description about what a computer is? And how the internet allows you to send "electronic mail" over the "information superhighway"?

This has to be the thousandth time Ars has written an article about a Pirate Party. Anybody who doesn't know about it by now has been living under a rock, and is perfectly capable of using wikipedia like you did.

Implicit in dialog and reformation is the notion of compromise. Are the pirate parties ready to compromise or is this a take no prisoners platform?

Dude, that's a pretty dumb thing to say. It's the current stakeholders that have the power, and the current stakeholders that are denying any opposing view to be heard.

Yet you think it's the politically voiceless groups that need to compromise here?

This is like in almost every previous argument, you refuse to acknowledge how ludicrous the current laws are in a modern society and how beneficial looser laws were in the past. In a thread about people buying computers with malware preloaded, you instantly make snarky comments about pirates and how "free" isn't so free, and when you're mistake is pointed out you don't correct yourself, you just go silent on the matter.

Yet you think it's those with views that differ from yours that need to compromise?

You'll blame everyone that doesn't agree with you for an inability to have a "meaning discussion" without ever admitting when you were wrong, admitting when your ideas demonstrably don't work, or admitting when opposing views have demonstrably succeeded.

Yet it everyone else that needs to compromise?

Dude, these IP groups are full of people like you. These IP groups refuse to hear any disenting views, their echo-chamber discussions reinforce their existing opinions and actually make them more extreme and draconian. That's why pirate parties are needed.

And that's why it's the pirate parties that shouldn't compromise for a change. Seriously, when was the last time a pirate party got anything their way? When?

"I am concerned that the WIPO is not interested in the dialog with this part of the civil society that thinks that the time for a massive reform of the copyright systems has come," PPI co-chairman Gregory Engels wrote in a blog post today.

Implicit in dialog and reformation is the notion of compromise. Are the pirate parties ready to compromise or is this a take no prisoners platform?

There is more than one Pirate Party, so the answer might depend on what country you live in.

Pirate Party Australia, which is the only one I'm familiar with, has this in their FAQ:

Pirate Party Australia wrote:

Do you support abolishing intellectual property entirely?

No. We believe that the original goals of intellectual property protections, which are to promote creativity and invention, are reasonable. We don’t believe that prosecuting non-commercial file sharers for copying a song from the 1940s is reasonable, however.

Do you think that commercial copyright infringement or patent infringement is ok?

No. Our position is that companies should pay for the use of copyrighted works and patented designs.

I understand that this is basically inviting a lamb to review a slaughterhouse, but isn't this political discrimination? The Pirate Party almost certainly don't hold the same views as most people involved with WIPO, but they clearly care about the future of copyright. Isn't this unethical?

1) Yes, it is.2) Yes, it is.

It's a meeting of the world's evil empires, did you really think fairness and ethical behaviour would factor in?

Ooh I wonder what's happened? Seriously do the politicians think we are in any doubt about what is going on here?

I understand that this is basically inviting a lamb to review a slaughterhouse, but isn't this political discrimination? The Pirate Party almost certainly don't hold the same views as most people involved with WIPO, but they clearly care about the future of copyright. Isn't this unethical?

1) Yes, it is.2) Yes, it is.

It's a meeting of the world's evil empires, did you really think fairness and ethical behaviour would factor in?

Oh, FFS. Is Switzerland now numbered among these "evil empires" who believe unauthorized distribution and jacking of copyrighted material is harmful in some financial way?

The change towards looser patent protections is coming no matter what. Of course the entrenched and interested parties will fight it but current trends show support for current, lets face it extreme, patent and copyright protections being reduced in scope and power.

I find no surprise there, the US is always going to object to the Pirate Party. Nothing will change that fact today or tomorrow, 10 years from now I still doubt they would be given a second thought. Of course things could change quite a bit of that time. The US is looking more and more appealing to China to just buy up with the national debt being ran up and I don't think China would object to them. The one that that would certainly put their foot in the door is to win a significant number of seats in the EU.

Implicit in dialog and reformation is the notion of compromise. Are the pirate parties ready to compromise or is this a take no prisoners platform?

Dude, that's a pretty dumb thing to say.

No, filling a reply with a whole bunch of conjecture is however.

Once again, I give you the reasoning behind my opinion and try to thoroughly lay out the reasons why I find arguing with you so frustrating, and you dismiss it and address nothing I've said. You won't even respond to my accusations.

Implicit in dialog and reformation is the notion of compromise. Are the pirate parties ready to compromise or is this a take no prisoners platform?

Dude, that's a pretty dumb thing to say.

No, filling a reply with a whole bunch of conjecture is however.

Once again, I give you the reasoning behind my opinion and try to thoroughly lay out the reasons why I find arguing with you so frustrating, and you dismiss it and address nothing I've said. You won't even respond to my accusations.

Still no compromise, huh?

No, your post was "all you people". We'll talk when you realize there's no "gang" of pro-copyright out there, nor consensus on a "one true way".