POSTGAME NOTES: Zito, Bochy disagree about how this day should have ended

Barry Zito’s final start as a Giant ended up being as unfulfilling for the home fans as his infamous $126 million contract.

There was no ovation, no slow walk off the mound, no tip of the cap. Zito was pulled in the privacy of the dugout, when manager Bruce Bochy informed him that Roger Kieschnick would lead off the bottom of the fifth. Zito had seen the bullpen getting loose, and he wasn’t happy about it.

“I just let (Bochy) know: This is my game. I’m going to go out there and shut them down,” Zito said. “I felt good.”

But Bochy felt Zito had gone far enough, citing a number of reasons: Zito had not pitched since September 2 and was already at 77 pitches; he had been hit on the left thigh by a line drive; he was also due up first in the bottom of the fifth.

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“It was all of the above,” Bochy said. “I didn’t think I could take him out there and stretch him out as much as if he was pitching every fifth day. He did his job. He took a pretty good shot there in the quad. He’s got a nice contusion there. He was fighting to stay in there, but at that point I felt like he did his job. That was far enough.”
Zito, who said his leg is fine, has backed his manager through thick and thin, and he said Wednesday that he ultimately supported the decision. But in the moment, Zito argued to stay in the game. When he was shut down, he walked quickly toward the dugout steps, hitting a Gatorade cooler as he went.

“I was frustrated,” Zito said. “I felt great out there. I wanted to keep going. I wanted to throw a complete game. My last time in a Giants uniform, I wanted to end it in style and make the most of this opportunity that I had today.”

Zito did earn his first win since May 30, ending his rocky Giants career on a high note. And he did notice that thousands stayed around to cheer as the Giants went through the handshake line, but it wasn’t quite the same. There are few things in baseball cooler than a pitcher walking off the mound after a solid start. The Giants saw that firsthand Sunday, when Andy Pettitte got an extended standing ovation in his final start at Yankee Stadium. Zito has not matched Pettitte’s success, but you could tell that AT&T Park was waiting to explode. Bochy, however, had his mind elsewhere.

“I’ll be honest, we were thinking of winning the game,” Bochy said. “It wasn’t a situation where you’re thinking about a curtain call, to be honest. You’re doing all you can to win.

“It was pretty much a no-brainer for me.”

At that point, there was nothing Zito could do. He took it in stride, saying he was happy the Giants were able to get a win in his final start for the franchise.

“There are not a lot of chances for closure in sports,” Zito said. “There are never really goodbyes.”

— Bochy on Zito’s seven years here: “He had some ups and downs, but overall it’s been a pleasure for me to have him here. We know what he did last year for us. It’s been a joy to be with Barry and I couldn’t be happier for him right now to win tonight’s game. I will say, this guy has done all that he’s been asked. We’ve moved him around and he’s never complained. He’s always given us his best effort and done whatever has been asked of him. I can’t say enough good things about Z.”

That, to me, is why this night was baffling. Bochy didn’t have to hold Zito Appreciation Day, but he did, and in the end the Giants kind of missed out on the final scene. Why not send him out to the on-deck circle and then pull him back? That would have at least given the fans a chance to stand for a moment.

— Lost in all the Zito stuff, Pablo Sandoval had his first homer since the three-homer game, Buster Posey had his first multi-hit game since September 9 and Tony Abreu had a career-high four RBIs. He’s driven in six runs over the past three games.

“He’s really been doing a nice job,” Bochy said. “He had some big hits on that road trip, then last night and tonight. He’s come through for us.”

— Pretty glad that I ignored all the “Will Zito’s option vest?!?!?!” questions this spring.

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— Nick Punto, king of the headfirst slide into first, went feet first into third in the fifth inning. Long after Brandon Crawford had thrown the ball to first.

— Really cool story from MLB.com’s Chris Haft, talking to Tim Lincecum’s current and former teammates. While talking about Zito earlier today, I asked Lincecum if he had considered all that tomorrow night’s game might represent. “Just trying not to think about it right now,” he said, smiling. “At least until I get there.”

Alex Pavlovic

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I love how Bochy says that he was interested in winning the game. It’s nice that he’s finally trying to win after stinking it up all season. Hey Bruce, we are only 99 games out of first place. Let Zito have his curtain call.

walt kovacs

did zito earn the right to get an ovation off the mound? nope

you got a win at your final start…stfu

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

While leaving the park, I could only think that Bochy had another brain cramp. I can’t imagine it any other way. If he was ‘only trying to win’…

If our goal was ‘to win’ Bumgarner would’ve been a clear and decisive choice for the start. Zito has been skipped over, while we’ve been trying to win, Z wouldn’t have started. Z was efficient early and held a solid pitch count, showing he was pitching ‘well enough to help win.’

I think it was a ‘snap decision’ Bochy made. Maybe it was ‘is his leg hurt’? Maybe because Kemp has ownage and was due to leadoff. We had a lead, it wasn’t exactly like Kieschnick ‘deserved’ that AB or whatever. Alex makes a great point, Z could’ve gone on-deck at least. No reason makes any sense.

The WHOLE point of this was “Bochy’s Whim” to get Zito a last start “he deserved.” Maybe Boch ticked off Bum and Zito in the same nonsensical move. And fans too. And why not pull Pagan right after his AB, insert Perez for defense? Arias didn’t take over 2B, even after Abreu’s error. Lopez warmed up, he wasn’t brought in to face Crawford in the 8th.

Why give Zito a “bow out” game and then not allow him to BOW?? Carmot, unjustly maligned by many on this board, speaks a simple truth. Let him bat to get that final bow and THEN pull him. As things went, Zito is unhappy, can’t imagine Bums is happy, and the fans who like Zito don’t get to say goodbye. Bochy managed to initiate a sequence that pleased … no one!! Brilliant. The guy is brain dead.

Maybe Zito can’t pitch with a contusion but BAT?? Just let him get ANNOUNCED for God’s sake. I’m no Zito fan but Bochy’s personnel management tonight was about as pitiful as it gets.

The Oracle

I don’t care that Zito didn’t get his curtain call. Not at all. Other than the last half of last season, he’s ranged from somewhat below average to totally sucks over the course of his monsterous 7 year contract. He’s behaved like a true professional, but he’s also been treated very well by the fans and organization, considering his lack of production. Can you imagine what he would’ve had to endure in New York under the same circumstances?

To me, it once again seemed like Bochy and the Giants belatedly care about draft position. Bumgarner was replaced by Zito, and then when Zito pitched surprisingly well, he was replaced by BP pitcher Kontos after just 5 innings…all to no avail. Zito has been treated with respect over 7 years, and Bochy has always spoken well of him. Zito has no complaint.

The Oracle

And now, the reverse standings. The Astros, Marlins, White Sox, Cubs and Twins have all clinched.

The Lincecum story linked by Alex is as cool as claimed. It made me really hope he does come back.

WillieMaysField

The Lincecum article is a cool look into clubhouse dynamics. I didn’t need or want to see Zito pitch again but his teammates wanted it for him. That says everything you need to know about this mans character.

ClutchUp

The win on 75’s 2013 record last night sounds and feels better had been shelled and lost. The contusion must have looked bad. SCJim said last nite that maybe 75 will pitch 1 inn of relief on Sunday since he threw 77 last nite. Sunday might be his normal bullpen day. Or:
-Let him take out the lineup card
-Let him pinch hit a sac bunt
-Let the actual crowd verbally call him out of the dugout
Have a Paul O’Neil moment on Sunday and start chanting BARRY ZITO BARRY ZITO. Boom get it done!
Do

DrLefty

Yeah, if you’re interested in “winning the game,” you don’t start your worst pitcher instead of your best one in the first place–but having done so, for Pete’s sake, let him have his moment. The fans, too.

DrLefty

This has been the weirdest few days for Bay Area sports. First you have a Harbaugh/York “explanation” that makes sense to exactly no one for playing Aldon Smith when he should already have been in rehab. Then you have Bochy with his Zito Appreciation Night where Zito doesn’t get to be appreciated–and a lame explanation about his pitch count (why is that even the Giants’ problem right now?) and trying to “win the game” (huh?).

We’ve all commented on what an off year Bochy has had, and I was willing to believe he was just understandably tired after several stressful seasons. Now I think he may actually have jumped the shark. To handle Zito that way after seven long years of ups and downs and sticking by him…way, way out of touch. It’s like he isn’t focusing and/or doesn’t care.

Makes me wonder how he’ll deal with Timmy’s last start tonight–take him out with a one-run lead and runners on and in bring in Mijares?!

Mr. Sarcastic

Perhaps Bochy was thinking, “Better get while the getting’s good” as far as yanking Zito. He was probably afraid Zito would go out the next inning and get hammered as the Dodgers turned over the lineup again.
That being said, I agree with everyone who said that Bochy could have at least let him get announced in the on-deck circle before pulling him.
Who knows what’s really going on behid the scenes anyway? Maybe Bochy didn’t even want to start him in the first place, but Larry B insisted on it? Lots of dynamics we as outside observers have no idea about.

DrLefty

Besides Abreu earning another look with his late-season push, you know who else is redeeming himself? Jean Machi.

I know I would get him mixed up with Mijares because (a) they look alike (b) they always seem to be together (c) they always seemed to come in one after the other and (d) they were always doing poorly.

But last night I noted that Machi looked pretty good, and that reminded me that he also looked pretty good when I saw him at Citi Field last week. This made me look up his recent splits, and indeed–over the last two weeks he’s been really good (6 games, 0 hits, 0 runs, 2 walks, 1 intentional, 9 Ks), and over the last 28 days quite good, too (1 run, 3 hits, 3 walks, 11 Ks).

Mijares hasn’t appeared in a game since Sept. 10, and I bet he’s done with the Giants. But Machi may be another story.

totalfan62

As for our march to 76-86 and third place in the NL West–so far so good. Split the first two with the Dodgers, and hope Timmy wins tonight (in his final AT&T start THIS YEAR), for the series win.
A little help from the D’Backs tonight and we’re tied with SD for third. Unlikely that Colorado can catch us (they finish in LA, Dodgers still in it for best NL record), so win two out of three from the Padres and we’re there.
Yeah, I get the whole “bottom 10″ thing, but I simply cannot root for my team to lose. Who knows what might happen in free agency, or what that almighty draft pick might bring? For now, Finish Strong!

totalfan62

Lefty, I think Machi’s struggles had a lot to do with overuse. Another question mark for Bochy/Righetti–sometimes they’ll ride a guy right into the ground and I think that happened with Machi. When used correctly he can be a real asset out of the pen.

totalfan62

Zito’s exit from the game definitely should have been handled better than it was. That being said, I breathed a sigh of relief when I realized he was done after five innings. I want the win, and the Dodgers were starting to get good shots off him. Gotta admit I was holding my breath all the way through Kontos’ inning!

avwh

Perfect end to a frustrating season.

Bochy even screws up the “feel good” send off fans expected to give Zito.

Perfect.

ClutchUp

Was the fatal stabbing last night related to the actual game? Fans going INTO the park are wanded. The element outside of ATT that does not even go into the Park is really Low Life. There were MAJOR incidents at the Colts-49er game and now this fatal stabbing of a presumed Dodger fan. It has to stop. The ELEMENT on CalTrain going up to the game is very trashy-trailer trashy white kids under-age smoking (illegally) vaporizers and electronic cigarettes with huge open containers of booze. Smh

ClutchUp

Noonan’s play to end it was nice. Puig on deck…Romo did not fool Hanley at all. Diving play. Game over!

channelclemente

Just my imagination, but Bochy has seen how Zito’s problems develop during the course of a game. If you’ve seen that enough, and you probably never have to see it again, why not do what your head told you you should have done many times before.

channelclemente

Romo is rapidly falling back into the role of a RHB specialist, and who knows, that makes he a Lopez a valuable pair again. Besides, all things being equal healthwise, who really believes Romo-Hembree is a real competition.

channelclemente

I didn’t see much if any positive sentiment over Zito until he departed and everyone breathed a sigh of relief. Thank you from the bottom of my heart Mr. Zito for last year, but it’s time to exit stage left.

channelclemente

Baloney, when your in the desert, even urine looks wet. Machi is at the very best, a ‘dutch boy’ expression of how desperate that bullpen is for talent, any talent.

ClutchUp

Pretty Clear for 49ers
No Willis
No Vernon
Jeff Fischer will have something up his sleeve.
Kaepernick on TURF may be unstoppable however!

stickman

With you all the way on this one, Lefty. They may look like two peas in a pod, but Mijares is a sweathog, while Machi lately has been channeling his inner macho. No good reason to believe he is not a keeper.

totalfan62

My thoughts exactly. The RIGHT thing entering spring training would be Romo’s the closer, but Hembree is closer in waiting, and there’s nothing wrong with Romo/Lopez in the 8th and Hembree in the 9th.

channelclemente

Whatever works, what’s happening now is failing.

stickman

Two of the last 3 years the Giants were built for October baseball. This year we are a month short. Curiously the team will have the best record within the West. Bad teams lose 90 or more. Poor teams lose 81+. Guess that makes us poor relatives of the has-beens and never weres.

With a manager not in his dotage in that role this team may well have won ten games that went down the big swirly. There were a slew of one-run defeats that were wouldda, shouldda, coulddas. Better game strategy, superior lineup arrangement and not playing regulars even after they had been stinking it up regularly might have reversed the record to 83-75; good for a solid second in the West.

Too bad, but BB15 is not likely to experience his gold watch moment in the offseason. So instead of making up ten games in the standings, the Giants will be saddled with needing twice that figure to seriously contend next year.

paul in p.v.

Agree CC, why let Zeets blow up another game. At first I thought, wft? when I saw Zeets in Bochy’s face in the dugout – and DrL. he did look befuddled right then. On reconsideration, I guess it would’ve been traditional to let Zeets get to the on-deck circle before yanking him, so he got his adios from ATT. But the idea that he should get a chance to pitch a complete game is ludicrous.

p.s. Quiche was BAD in that PH AB – he’s toast.

channelclemente

IMO, one of the reasons Bochy has at times been called ineffectual by some is his trying to managing a sinking ship the way he did last year, with a winning team. I think the straight in the eye, sit!, Zito got may be the message next year. You’ll never hear the public quotes you hear in Boston and NY, but next year will be a row or I’ll feed you to the sharks year for Bochy. Too many kids for it to be otherwise I think.

Eleuthero

Oh yeah. That’ll REALLY tick off the Zito fans who went last night strictly to say bye bye to him. Nah. They screwed up already. Enough with the curtain calls except for letting Bums get K 200.

paul in p.v.

My recollection is that Machi was lights-out when he first came up, throwing strikes with a great split – when he lost his control he started walking in runs and resembling a RH version of the Mijares gas-can. Lately he’s re-found his split and control and has pitched very well.

channelclemente

Do you REALLY think those comments are a true expression of ‘clubhouse’ dynamics. You guys can’t on one hand believe in a Disney cartoon version of the Giants clubhouse, and in the next foment some of the drama read here all the time. Just because they have learned not to speak ill of one another, do you suppose anybody on that team wants to play a single game behind Zito next year given any other viable option.

Eleuthero

Okay but is there really any “pride” in being in the middle of a bad division where “middle” doesn’t mean “close to .500″? To suck infinitesimally less than two other teams (by one or two games) is about like caring whether two or three angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Eleuthero

You can’t judge relievers to be failures when they’re running on fumes. Romo should’ve been shut down a week ago. He’s gassed.

channelclemente

You moron, you play every inning, every pitch to win, if you don’t, you disrespect The Game, which is worth more than any 10 San Francisco Giants rings or teams. To say otherwise turns it into a game as despicable and foolish as the NFL.

stickman

Seeing as they’re losing both their marquee mound attractions, Rivera and Pettitte, the Evil Empire is gonna be looking for a pitcher with rock-star presence, as being the media and publicity center of the world, to say nothing of MLB, a pitcher with presence becomes a must-have for the Yanks.

So my read, right off the top, is four years at 15M/ per, adding on a signing bonus of 5M and a team option for a fifth. To the NYY’s it’s only money, even if #55 slings into a bullpen role after a year or less.

Eleuthero

I think you just described a transformation that describes the entire USA. Read the book “Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010″ by Charles Murray.

channelclemente

We were all watching, I hope, in Chicago and Toronto. Gassed my asss, they’ve figured out his approach and he will eventually be ineffective against LHB.

Eleuthero

In New York Zito is run out on a rail after year two of his contract. The financial loss would be considered an owner’s problem that the fans should not have to shoulder by paying their hard earned dollars to see amateurish performance.

Maybe if fans out here were more hard edged about their millionaires doing their job we’d have a heck of a lot more total championships than ONE in hoops, two in baseball, and none in hockey.

If Giants’ owners trot out more or less the same product in 2014 and STILL the games are sold out, fans only have themselves to blame.

Public_Service_forthe_Ignorati

He shouldn’t be “gassed” after only throwing 23 innings in the second-half. If he is, then that justifies Bochy’s strategic use of him since he came up in 2008.

Eleuthero

Which means the Giants are toast because they’d have to outlose by at least TWO games to the Jays or Phils in just four games because of the tiebreakers. Zito picked one helluva time to have a good start.

Eleuthero

Thanks for the note of sanity vis-a-vis Aldon Smith. Since alcohol is one of only TWO substances that produce a life-threatening withdrawal (barbiturates the other), playing Smith is like playing a kid who took his last shot of heroin the night before. Whatever happened to the idea of decency first, game results second? All of sport has sold out to a bloodless, mercenary mindset.

Eleuthero

That was REALLY bad. It was like a little league game where a kid closes his eyes before he swings ’cause he’s afraid.

giantsfaninak

this entire season it seems like Bochy has not been paying attention.
does anyone know about Bochy’s personal life? I thought I heard somewhere there were problems. (it was on the Internet so it must be true). pulling Z was unusual for him. his usual MO is letting the pitcher bat then have to go get him in the next inning . then there was the filling out the lineup card wrong thing that happened on Nat TV

Long Time Giants Fan

In reading a bit of what Zito said after the game, he said that his time with the Giants was 95% good, 5% bad. For me, as a Giants fan, his time with the Giants was 95% bad, 5% good. If I had been Giants management, I would have released him after 3 years of bad pitching, so then he never would have been around for the WS years. He should have said last night, ‘Boy I sure have pitched badly much of my time in SF, but Bochy has always supported me. I thank him for letting me start one last time to finish out the worst season of my career. I especially want to thank Mad Bum for letting my start prevent him from getting 200 strikeouts. What a great teammate.’ It would have been nice for once in an interview for Zito to be honest, but no he has to lie to us and himself one last time. That being said, Bochy should have taken him out so he could get that applause he wanted and let Zito’s few remaining fans give him a sendoff. Bochy messed up big time on that.

channelclemente

“Between the chalk lines” is a good rule. I think it’s just becoming a different team, with a lot more key young guys. It takes a rooster with spurs sometimes, to run the barnyard.

channelclemente

Baloney, the Giants turned a page last night. Bochy doesn’t have to carry McGowans water any longer. Imagine his relief. Who in the name of hell cares about Bumgarner’s 200 strikeouts. Those are the kinds of sentiments you express as a player if that’s going to be a major milestone of your career. I hope Bumgarner has more gumption than that, he and Cain are going to lead that staff next year, he better start to be up to the task.

Eleuthero

It’s a sign of how America has turned into a nation of celebrity butt-kissers that we feel that we “owe” some sort of sentimental allegiance to a guy who made $500,000 per start for seven years just because he “acted professionally”. You’re supposed to act professionally ’cause it’s the right thing to do and that was the expectation in the 1950s thru the 1970s.

We’re like that with our kids, too. We train kids to feel they deserve a reward for average decency instead of for exemplary behavior/performance. Little wonder why high school teachers now have an average career of under five years. The kids are monsters. “Little Johnny still loves himself even though he failed math and English and threatened Mr. Peachbottom with a shiv.” Sheesh.

Long Time Giants Fan

BTW, in some recent tweets from Schulman, Henry acknowledged that Bochy didn’t do a good job of managing the team this year, and that Sabean and rest of upper management didn’t do a good job either. I realize that we have been saying that for months, but I think we have found that most writers don’t agree with us.

channelclemente

If you quote Schulman as a quality source on anything, you’ll quote words of wisdom off a bathroom wall.

MLBSF

Along with a god-awful ERA, Zito must suffer from dyslexia. He must have meant 5% of his performances were good and 95% were bad…
Coincidentally, 5% of Bochy’s decisions this year have been good and 95% have been bad.
And as long as we are using numbers, this season has been a 100% failure. There’s no question about it. smh

Keep’n It Real

Some comments on ESPN that Flannery and the Giants are hypocrites for not owning up to this, like many (including Flannery) called out the Dodgers Ownership for Stow. What these morons don’t know (or don’t want to know), this tragic stabbing occurred many blocks from AT&T Park; in an area that Giants Ownership have zero responsibility or jurisdiction.

Here’s a map of the actual location and I know I wouldn’t be walking around there at that hour…with or without “gear”.

As I’ve said, months ago, the Giants arrived in ST, fat, tired, injured, and uninspired. Nothing changed during the season. IMO, they succumbed to believing their own BS. Nobody manages out of that, when you add injury to the equation. As to Bochy being a genius, IMO he is, but was this a year to forget, yeah.

giantsfaninak

I remember a discussion on fox earlier this yr about Bochy being s HOF manager

Long Time Giants Fan

I know that Bum didn’t say that, but he should have gotten the chance to get 200 strikeouts. That should be more important than a pitcher at the end of their career. And yes, I’m sure that Bochy is delighted Zito is gone. He still should have given him his last applause.

ClutchUp

and everyone gets a ribbon and trophy, but what they really want is that Popsicle at the snack shack….

Eleuthero

Duh, right, boss. That’s why you’re playing kids at the end of the season and starting your WORST pitcher in place of your BEST pitcher. These are FACTS which means that if you want to see a COMPLETE moron then look in the mirror.

SouthBaySteve

Bochy
said it was a “no-brainer,” and he was right: Clearly he didn’t use it
this time. Give him a final start in front of the home crowd in a lost
season, and then pull him like that? Somehow, the moment seems to have
been lost on Boch. (Maybe you could call it a “no-hearter?” Nah,
probably just a “heart fart”…)

I’m among those who appreciate
Zito for being who he is, and have pulled for him every time out. Hope
he catches on somewhere with a minor league deal. I wouldn’t be
surprised if he hangs around the bigs for a few more years; I think he
could end up being a useful addition to some teams. I just wish all the
best for the guy.

MLBSF

Does ClutchUp ever go outside or does he spend all day on this blog going over everything with a fine tooth comb? smh

South City Jim

I agree. Weird picture given the circumstances.

ClutchUp

Pacman is a tough sell but 10 hours ago he wrote this about Zito (and EVERYBODY who’s knowledgable about what really took place should agree)

Pacman wrote: He won 15 games last year and beat Reds, Cards and Verlander. Dude earned every penny in my mind. I don’t care if he was payed a billion dollars for 100 years. The dude helped win us the WS. There is no price tag for Championships.

Side bar: If fans were told #75 was gonna sign a 7/126 but during that period the TEAM would win two World Series, the majority would have said “Bring it on”. His 9 wins in 2010 helped SF clinch the pennant on game 162 (with another eventual outcast lefty on the mound)

Is Sanchie still with the Dodgers organization?

ClutchUp

All SF starting pitchers are groomed to throw 200 Innings plus buy Rags and Gardy. That’s part of the legacy of the Marichal’s and Perry’s of te Giants Pitching family. 200 strikeouts is an individual stat. 200 innings is a TEAM stat. Bum could care less about one more strike out.

ClutchUp

Douche bag, I’m on my cell phone not on a computer. DOH

giantsfaninak

maybe Alex should have used a shot of Z in Bochy’s grill.

South City Jim

First, he said 5% was terrible and if you heard the entire quote, it was preceded by talking about the organization, his teammates, two rings, life changes, etc. Anyone hearing that quote knew he wasn’t saying that only 5% of his starts were “terrible”.

Eleuthero

Nope. East Coasters want rock stars WHO PERFORM. Otherwise they boo them and run them outta town on a rail. That’s the right attitude to incentivize performance and it’s much less of a celebrity butt-kisser attitude. What’s wrong with Californians?

channelclemente

You hopeless, ignorant, self serving piece of troll dropping.

Eleuthero

Nice “reasoning”. Like a little kid having a tantrum. Keep going, nudnik … I don’t need to make an a$$ of you. You’re doing quite well on your own.

South City Jim

Although I think Bochy missed an opportunity with Zito last night, I think the real reason had nothing to do with pitch count or the line drive off the leg. It had everything to do with lead off hitters in the 6th inning. Barry was leading off the top of the 6th and Kemp was leading off the bottom of the 6th. Ownage is ownage.

Michael Scott

tonight could be lincecum’s final start here in what we hope will be his 90th
regular season win as a giant. whether he gets a chance to improve on his 5-2
postseason record in sf remains to be seen. i’m on the fence as to whether ,
one- that the giants can sign him, two- whether they should. he’s been just good
enough that the chances of him agreeing to a qualifying offer ( estimated to be
about 14 million) on a one year deal has become doubtful. on the other hand
chances of him getting that 5 or 6 year, 20 mill+ per year deal that was once
thought to be a lock, is now gone with the wind. the giants aren’t giving that
to him and nobody else is either. my guess- 3 years, 45 million- that’s a lot of
money for a 3 or 4 starter. and it’s iffy that he’ll ever be better than that.
but it’s ‘ifffy’, not a ‘for sure’ either way. if this sounds like i’m
vaccilating, it’s because i’m doing just that, and that has to be what the front
office is doing. he’s high risk/unknown reward. and that sentence ends my
wavering on this-if i’m sabean i make the qualifying offer-1 year 14 mill and if
he refuses, i’m out.
as to zito: i wish him well as he enters the next stage
of his life as a wealthy former major league pitcher. he’s been fairly
criticized for the subpar performance over the vast majority of his time here
and deservedly praised for his performance down the stretch and in the postseson
last year. farewell.

channelclemente

I does one reason with a moron?

Eleuthero

“I does …”?? Hahahahahahaha! Nice grammar. Can’t write one sentence correctly ’cause you’re blind with rage. This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

channelclemente

I’ll admit to disgust, but then that’s usual with what one wipes off one”s shoe.

ClutchUp

Sharks’ Torres undergoes surgery for torn ACL. I guess they automatically will suck now according to twinkle toes-smh-sally.

Michael Scott

the real photo is hilarious. here’s part of the action that the fake photo above was cribbed from

Good Stuff Michael. I think 55 returns. The Investor Group have a mini inside of family members who are engaged and vested in Timmy as an Icon. 2 Cy’s and two WS rings.
McGowan thought Barry 75 would bridge the Barry 25 era’s but it was Lincecum who actually bridged the huge gap to them being BAD to them being eventual World Champions.

Lincecum stays and Zito pitches for an American League team somewhere in 2014.

South City Jim

Great post. I think most of us agree that Zito didn’t live up to the contract, not even close. But it’s the way he comported himself that warmed me over. That said, and I’ve said this before, if Jobu came down from the mountain and asked, “Are you willing to replay the past seven years if I let you undo the Zito contract?”, my response is “NO”. I’ll take the two rings, thank you very much.

pacman68

GREAT NEWS BASEBALL FANS AND CLUTCH UP

Selig to retire after 2014

The worst commissioner ever is retiring. Hope the door smacks you on the way out you scumbag!!!

South City Jim

Only better news would be if he retired now.

channelclemente

He announced this months ago. He also said he would lock down the A’s – Giants San Joser issue prior to leaving, as well.

Keep’n It Real

cc – With all due respect, and I have been all over this “A’s to San Jose” thing, I have never seen or read anything about Bud saying he would lock that issue down.

pacman68

We’ll remember him fondly. Said no one ever.

ClutchUp

OMG do you get to take me to Taylors for predicting THAT? (kidding Pac)

channelclemente

He said it yesterday on a CBS radio interview with John Feinstein. I suspect the scary potential of a WS game(s) played ankle deep in sewage finally motivated him to do something, however lame.

For what it’s worth, the quote:

““It’s a pit,” Selig said. “It reminds me of old County Stadium and Shea Stadium. We need to deal with that. I’ve had a committee working on it for two or three years, and there’s no question we’re going to have to solve that problem.” But hasn’t the committee been working on it for a long time? What’s the hold-up? “We have, John, but I’ll tell you it’s far more complex,” Selig said. “Look, you have one team that wants to move and the other team doesn’t want them to move, and it’s a very complicated situation. Before I leave, I’m satisfied we’ll work out something.””

This just in!?!?! PACMAN has been in touch with Tanya Harding’s then ex-husband Jeff Gillooly in hopes that Selig might get wacked-off sooner than 2014. Apparently Ryan Braun is also involved with hiring the Wacker-offer but nobody can substantiate this evil rumor.

pacman68

It will be his parting shot to baseball. One more kick in the nuts before he leaves and destroys other things.

Keep’n It Real

OK…just saw what he said on CSNBA article. “Before I leave, I’m satisfied we’ll work out something.”

He is full of it. San Jose case won’t be resolved by then (unless it’s thrown out) and any “in the best interest of baseball” move will be litigated by the Giants…since he’s giving away equity of the team (in addition to potential conflict of interest via his personal relationship with Wolff).

pacman68

You know Selig tried to get his boy off. Cause Chicks love the long ball. Selig needs a nice whack on the buttocks from Sister Kathleen Cummings.

channelclemente

It would be consistent with his historical approach to managing MLB.

South City Jim

I was a little hard on Buster’s pitch calling the other day but I thought he’s done a great job the past two nights. I think he’s a keeper.

“It’s a pit,” Selig said on CBS Radio on Wednesday. “It reminds me of old County Stadium (in Milwaukee) and Shea Stadium. We need to deal with that. I’ve had a committee working on it for two or three years, and there’s no question we’re going to have to solve that problem.”

—–> Well, the committee actually was formed nearly five years ago.

ClutchUp

Either by natural causes or otherwise …

Anti-Lasorda

Happy Final Lincecum Day….

pacman68

We have these idiots up here in LA called Mason and Ireland who say that Selig is the best thing that happened to baseball. I fought with these guys on air for 10 minutes. They need to shut up and stick to what they know. Lakers garbage.

pacman68

Yankees here I come!!

channelclemente

Purely speculation, but Lincecum in a stadium with those short porches would be an unmitigated disaster. If for no other reason, his WHIP. They may make a marquee offer, but hope he isn’t interested.

ClutchUp

There is no way A-L. You can name your Arepa’s of choice and amount. I will deliver them.

ClutchUp

…no way…

channelclemente

Just to scale the coming year, Cano is asking for 10 years and $305,000,000.

Talk about paying a FA for ‘past performance’ rather than ‘future productivity.’ Cano can’t take Yankee stadium with him, and he doesn’t average 28 HR/yr anywhere else. He also will *never* have that prolific lineup around him again- even if he re-signs in NYY.

I say that only Wrigley can project his power nearly as well as Yankee Stadium. The only other parks that he can retain most of his worth (in order): Camden and Coors. Then you get to the next tier of parks: Nationals, US Cellular, and Miller. That’s seven teams in total.

If a team ain’t on my ranked list above, they shouldn’t even be thinking of $20M+ AAV for Cano.

channelclemente

There is always the Dodgers.

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

Yes, there is. And IMO, LAD would not take delivery of the same Cano they are paying for.

I’m sure Mark Ellis has already been fairly insulted that the Dodgers were linked to an agreement with Alexander Guerrero. And the always buzzing media saying LAD want Cano.

M Ellis, with a $5.75M team option for 2014. M Ellis, who contributes quietly and without pretense. LAD are 68-35 with him starting and 23-32 when he does not.

pacman68

I LOVE THIS ABOUT BUD SELIG ….

You may be the worst experience baseball has EVER seen. You used everybody to around you including your rich owner friends to save the disgrace that is the brewers and then you screwed all of baseball with that joke of an idea for determining home field advantage and last you screwed all of baseball with your hack realignment by holding a franchise hostage until they agreed to move so your pathetic daughter could go to bed early at night instead of having to stay up late to watch her garbage team lose late. Good bye. Good riddance. and go away for GOOD! You are a piece of trash. (just my humble opinion)

channelclemente

Playing in LA, especially at night, might cause a moment of clarity for Cano as a power hitter, not to mention the rest of the coastal teams in the NL West.

pacman68

Cano has Angels written all over him.

channelclemente

I have to believe, post Pujols, no one is that dumb.

MLBSF

Except the Dodgers

MLBSF

OK my bad ClutchUp

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

Yes. That is part of my point, exactly. Cano would have 81 home games in the Ravine.and 16-18 away games at AT&T and Petco combined.

Since MLB contracts are all “guaranteed”… Maybe Cano won’t care if his production falls off a cliff, once he signs the contract. I could actually see this compounding the problems (with *hiim* and also with the general demeanor of the Dodgers).

So, maybe… Cano sees his power drop. Stops conditioning as hard to use his sweet swing to max potential… Things like hustling for doubles go away. Things others have been accused of when productivity falls (Rios, Soriano, BJ Upton, Carl Crawford, etc). Then his age factors in and catches up faster (than if ‘all is good’ in CanoLand).

I think he’d better pick a team based on where he can excel (park factor), or things get bad quick. YMMV.

South City Jim

In some respects, this series with the Dodgers is shaping up to be one of great remembrance. Wilson returns on Tuesday, Zito says good-bye on Wednesday, and Lincecum (who knows what the future holds) on Thursday.

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

C’mon man. Cano to LAA? Lincecum to NYY?

LAA has this guy, Howie Kendrick.
NYY has this Plan 189.

DrLefty

Awesome. We’re heading down early to the game to beat traffic and will have time to kill. Will definitely look for them!

DrLefty

“Post Pujols”? Does the name Josh Hamilton ring a bell? But I take you point.

channelclemente

So he goes for strike three? In any case, it was the 10 years component as much as the money. It really is sad how much Hamilton looks like Kieschnick these days.

channelclemente

‘Strum Thurm’, a diehard Giants fan.

Anti-Lasorda

Seattle has a big park.. just sayin…
Looking at park factor for home run I would say being a fly ball pitcher that is victimized often by the long ball he should avoid any park with a HR park effect above 1.

Nogos for ball park include: Phi, Cin, Tor, Bal, Hou, Mil, Col, ChiSox, ChiCubs, Cle and interestingly enough, the modified Citi Field which would have been the reverse last season.
There is 2 parks better in baseball than his current digs as far as giving up dingers.
Only 1 they’re playing playoff baseball, and wear black too…..
PIttsburgh. I mean look what the park did for AJ Burnett and Liriano. It would be the surprise signing of the off season but I could see Burnett leaving for big bucks and bright lights being replaced by #55.
And Pirate fans might think they finally got square for Bonds. Afterall, its the first time since Barry left they made the playoffs.
Parks effects for HR Leaders:
Mia, Pitt, SF, Wa, Min, Oak, Stl, Bos, Sea, LAA, KC
Home runs aren’t everything though, so I took the park effects for Runs, Hits and HRs and made a composite friendly to Timmy ball park factor with HR’s counting for 45%, runs counting for 30% (big outfield promote long rallys) and hits (25%). Yes, I know this is complete arbitrary. Sue me.
Top 10 Best places for Timmy to Go for park effect are:
1) SF
2) StL
3) Pit
4) Oak
5) SD
6) LAD
7) TB
8) NYM
9) Bos
10) ATL
To me I will be surprised if he isn’t eating Sushi at Sunset Beach with Weez doffing a Red Cap.

channelclemente

Could be. They have room for a #3 – #4 starter.

Anti-Lasorda

There is no way to sign Timmy and Pence and improve left field without exceeding the cap of 146M to be placed by Darth Baer…… hard choices will have to be made. I think not ponying up to the 3yr 50M+ level Timmy will see will be one of them.

DrLefty

You could see it coming, though. Hamilton was regressing in the second half last year, and the Texas ballpark is a LOT more friendly to lefty sluggers than the Angels’ park.

channelclemente

Your right, I think his light/dark BA issues from a few years ago was a big red flag something is physically wrong with him.

South City Jim

Good analysis…I’m a bit surprised LAA isn’t up there. The numbers at that park may be skewed by a poor Angels staff (CJ and Jared not included).

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

“… eating Sushi at Sunset Beach with Weez doffing a Red Cap.”

Sorry if I’m not up on all this. You mean Sunset Beach in southern CA? My guess is there are plenty of Sunset Beach-es across the country, maybe I’m not reading the inferrence properly. “Red Cap” makes me think you meant Cardinals. I’m confused. Lincecum and Wilson both in STL?

Maybe you mean LAA, but they’re not on your list. I’ve been saying this all along. LAA is the one place that makes the most sense for Tim. I added another (long shot), BAL about a month ago.

I apologize for my ignorance.

CB – The lover of baseball

So I changed my handle. Not sure I will stick with this one but DodgerH8ter is boorish and immature. It was funny 15 years ago but it is not funny anymore. Prayers to the family of JD. If you see a Dodger fan today go out of your way to make them feel welcome. Wish I could go to the game to day but I am stuck at work.

MLBSF

No thanks. I’m not going to stab anyone but I’m not going out of my way to make them feel welcome.

CB – The lover of baseball

Well than you are a dbag and probably don’t go to the ball park anyway so no one losses but you.

MLBSF

The team said it will observe a moment of silence for Denver before Thursday night’s Giants-Dodgers game. Police said they would increase security in and around the ballpark
==========
WHY is there going to be a moment of silence? The stabbing didn’t happen during the game or on stadium property or even near the stadium.
Also the suspects didn’t even go to the game according to police. This could have happened anywhere. All these moments of silence are getting out of hand and I want no part of it. smh

MLBSF

Actually I do go to the ballpark, but I see the type of dirtbag Dodger fans that show up at AT&T and I want no part of them. You can kiss them yourself. smh

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

Well, the new handle works for me, I get your intentions.

I’m not going to make them feel ‘welcome.’ But I’ll thank them if they strike up a conversation with me. Why? Hey, ticket/concession sales can help our payroll. lol.

And I made sure to say “excuse me” as I reached over every single Dodger fan around me last night to high-five other Giants fans each opportunity I had last night, and we had plenty. Funny thing, some of the Giants fans I high-fived were sitting just behind a Dodger fan from my position.

MLBSF

Lefty,
“CB-The lover of baseball” (smh) wants you to hug and kiss all Dodger fans at the game. I’m sure you’ll be doing just that. Right? smh

CB – The lover of baseball

You have no idea what you are talking about. I was at Zeke’s last night like I am every post game and walked out right out in the middle of this. If you can’t put away the rivalry for one fing day then you are nothing. You are less than nothing. There are more important things in life than the color of your jersey.

Anti-Lasorda

Okay as budget minded as I can get:

Non tendering: Arias (.284 OBP), Mijares (2nd half collapse)
Offer: Blanco ($1.5M, Abreu (not because he better than Joaquin, but he’s 50% cheaper 800K)
Resigning Lopez at 2 for $10M
Offer Gaudin a $1.5M take it or leave it – and hope he takes it knowing 2-2.5M would guarantee him staying.
Letting Kickham, Hembree, Kontos, Dunning, Rosario, Machi complete for 2-3 bullpen jobs even though you should polish of a turd of veteran to compete.
Decline options on Vogey and Zito
Give the #5 spot to Petit and his 500K salary
Get lucky and have Pence sign for $16M per season instead of the $18M he will likely be offered
That would leave ~$30M for 2 starters (Zito & Timmy) and a LF upgrade.
If you resign Timmy at more than $15M per than you risk not being able to fill the other two holes.
I think Timmy will get offered more than $15M per……and I think Sabean will have to let him go. ~YMMV

Anti-Lasorda

Yes Sunset is between Long Beach and Seal Bech on the LA/OC border. About midway between LAA and LAD.
~YMMV

MLBSF

Nice strawman. I never said I approve of what happened. I’m just not going out of my way to make annoying Dodger fans feel welcome in my stadium. smh

Anti-Lasorda

Angels Stadium good for no long balls 10th, and runs 11th but ranks poorly in hits allowed 19th. Using my it ranks 13th, behind notable hitters haven in Arizona.
There is no doubt that the quality of the staffs contribute. Tampa for example ranks poorly in HRs (14th), and the parks dimensions support that but the Rays staff is so good the effect of runs and hits puts it in the #7 spot.
Just like I am not convinced it is harder to hit a HR in Miami than San Diego or Seattle. I just think the Marlins suck more.
~YMMV

E-B

SCJ, I didn’t see the post you refer to, but nice post. Zito called HIS game last night, and he did shake Buster several times. They both did a nice job, and Buster’s playing w/ a fractured finger tip.

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

Thanks. I’ve never spent much time in LA. Yeah, I could really see this happening: Linecum and Wilson on the Angels.

For Wilson, he might get one or two slightly better offers, but he likes being in his hometown, I think. For Tim, even if they re-sign Vargas, they still need pitching. Lots of it. I’ve previously given about a dozen reasons why I think this is a strong possibility.

CB – The lover of baseball

Great. Good for you. You have plenty if company both on this blog and in real life. As for me I will take the high road. Maybe if you see a guy get stabbed you will have a different opinion. You can go back to talking about line up changes now. I like reading Alex but too manyidiots on this blog shaking their heads.

E-B

Clutch, I like your post. I like to believe he’ll stay a SFG for the rest of his career.

I think offering him the QO, knowing anyone would refuse, simply as a means to prohibit or ‘make it difficult’ for another team to make an offer to him is jerking him around.

Of course, if that ‘other’ team is a top-tier contender, then losing a draft pick won’t matter too much, cuz they’re last to choose anyway.

Keep 55.

ClutchUp

Kudos. I grew up loving the game of baseball before I rooted for a particular team. If one only looks at one item or team, they’ll miss out on the athletic freakishness of a major league player and those that go on to be stars.
This is the same game we played as kids but it’s being played by the best there is. Some are better than others, but none are bigger than the actual game.

ClutchUp

Go to hell

E-B

hey, don’t hate on the guy who was offered all that dough–it’s the people who offered it to him that deserve the grief.

ClutchUp

Takes one to recognize one. Fans who commit crimes around a park are a microcosm of society. Read the comments from his boss. The guy who died has a family.

STFU and grow up!

ClutchUp

HAHA its not your stadium. It’s Ralph Barbieri’s stadium.

ClutchUp

Their are some real short piers around the stadium. Jump off of one… ladybug!

Anti-Lasorda

Not to hit this one too hard, but looking at Nolasco lately, so do the Dodgers….. and we know how much Ned likes Free agent Giants.

ClutchUp

Scott Boras …. and JayZ same dna

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

Let’s not forget defense. For a long while, LAA was right around us as #2/#3 worst team in MLB at fielding (errors), while TB has the fewest. Giving extra outs create more than just batting opportunities. By definition, they create high leverage situations (runners on-base).

Hard to account for properly. But I can see how it would skew peripheral numbers involved in park factor.

It’s similar to an argument based around our home park. If we hit more HR as the home team, would AT&T still rate as one of least HR friendly parks? I mean, we don’t have much power. And our park gives up the fewest HR, so does our pitching staff (usually). Atmospherically, AT&T is also about one of the toughest.

ClutchUp

Grow the hell up and while we’re waiting STFU.

The Oracle

I don’t think anyone has to give up hating the Dodgers because of what some drunken idiot did last night. There can be no doubt that no one deserved to be stabbed to death, but it remains to be seen whether the victim and his family members were active participants in the fight that led up to the stabbing, or simply targets like Brian Stow. Either way, I’ll continue to hate the Dodgers. I’ll also continue to refrain from interfering with anyone else’s rooting interest. Drunken fools find a million excuses to fight. They have nothing to do with me.

As for arguments about his high walk rate…well…isn’t it down, compared to when he first came to the league? He’s always been a high walk guy, so that actually hasn’t really changed much, in fact, I think he’s been just a bit better in that stat.

Stick, what I’m more concerned about is the New Yankees of the West, yah, dem Bumbos. Right now, they’ve got Ryeu (sp?) and Nolasco in the 3/4 spots. How have they fared? Nolasco did not look good the past 2 outings.

As much ‘leverage’ as the SFG believe they have w/ the QO (if the player refuses, the team who signs must relinquish a draft pick), well, when it’s a top-tier contending team–who will be LAST to select in the draft, well, that deterrent does not affect them as much as, say, a bottom-dwelling team who selects early in the draft.

By failing to lock-up Timmy now, I think SFG are just playing into LAD’s hands, bcuz you can bet after his NYY performance, both Yanks interest has been piqued, bcuz he showed he could pitch in a bandbox.

Will look for your comments later; I must stop and get back to work. I would much rather hang out here w/ ya’ll.

The Oracle

For once, I sort of agree with MLBSF.

Anti-Lasorda

Start high….. This is step one. I don’t think anyone gets more than 5 years this offseason, but I could be wrong.

WillieMaysField

We’re not talking about next year. We’re talking about 1 start and how they respect/encourage each other.

Footasaurus Rex

Hello. What’s new and what’s all the hullabaloo?

Is tonight Lincecum’s last start in a Giants uni?

I’ll take my answers off the air. Thanks.

Anti-Lasorda

The more I play with all the personnel and numbers, this reminders me of post 2011 where Sabean has a potential of non-tender arbitration assets and sure to walk free agents post 2014 to try to swing some magic and produce another Pagan… hopefully. (Or more needed another Vogelsong)

I smell an unanticipated trade coming.

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

What about Beckett or Billingsley returning healthy? And their interest in Masahiro Tanaka? They like Stephen Fife, and doesn’t Capuano have a team option?

I’m not so sure about McGill being a solution, but they’ve still got highly thought of prospect Zach Lee.

I don’t think LAD see Lincecum as enough of an ‘upgrade’ from Nolasco, and Ricky would be motivated to re-sign (as a lifelong Dodger fan) and won’t cost a draft pick.

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

Cano will get 6, maybe seven- but I think it will end up way short in dollars from the $305 Jay-Z speculates. Shin-Soo Choo is the most likely candidate to get 6 years IMO, probably only 5 though. Next, Ervin Santana just might.

ClutchUp

nope
girl friend/fiance teaches in sf and loves her job
Dog Cy likes SF during the season
Timmeh doesn’t have to see Chris yr around
Time split 1/4 vs. 3/4 suits him fine.
Staying …

channelclemente

IMO, everything today is about next year. The guys in that clubhouse perhaps just got a teaching moment from Bochy with Zito as the object lesson.

E-B

hey Carmot,

saw yours and Lefty’s post in prev thread.

Have a great time at the yard, and send the kid lotsa your positive vibes.

As for where 55 will land…who knows, but, whatever leverage the SFG *believe* they have on Timmy w/ the QO, well, it’s mitigated if that other team is a top-tier contender (who’s last to choose in the draft anyway)…

and that would be…

new yankees of the west; not pasadena-land.

imo, this is why the SFG should not make the QO (in a way, just to hurt the players chances of signing elsewhere), and make a reasonable offer to Timmy, for whatever years he’s interested in. (Look back at his history…he seems to like 2 or 3 yr deals).

well, just some thoughts, but I feel very certain that both Yanks will make offers to Timmy, esp. in view of his recent performance against NYY bandbox, holding Cano, ARod, Grandy hitless through 3X (9ABs).

ClutchUp

I know it was OVER THE TOP but I still like the red a$$ that the Braves have (this has nothing to do with the chop)

Timmy has an big House in AZ. Kevin Youngs old joint. Look for him to find a Cactus League team he likes all things being equal.

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

Good chance he leaves IMO. I doubt we’ll know in the next two months (meaning he will test free agency at least). A couple teams interested may wait until Tanaka gets signed to assess their appropriation of funds. Ma-kun prolly signs around the Winter Meetings.

So, we may know about Tim by Thanksgiving, but wouldn’t be surprised if it takes until mid-December to be final.

E-B

CC–you missed his outing in Yankee stadium, right?

Held Cano, ARod, Grandy hit-less, 3X thru l/u, in that tiny bandbox.

Also, check out his walk rate from 2007 to now. Has always been high, so not allotta change there.

I think BOTH Yankees, East & West, will make a run at Timmy, despite the FO’s attempt to make it difficult for them via the QO to Timmy (assuming he refuses, as anyone in the right mind would).

Of the 2, it’s the wicked west Y’s that won’t be affected much by losing a draft pick, cuz they’re near the last to select.

E-B

ahhh….100F+ weather?
nah, doesn’t go well w/ the kid.

Anti-Lasorda

Cactus League Stadiums that ranks well on the Timmy Friendly Park Factor.

SF, Oak, LAD, Az, LAA, Sea, Tx

Only Oak doesn’t seem likely on any Planet. You can make cases for the rest.

Not lovin’ this. Didn’t Blanco see only 5 pitches in his first two AB’s combined last night? Will Bochy ever learn that Perez hits RHP better than LHP? Will we? Not if we don’t see him.

It’s Timmy Day!MOMENTIM

Dream big. Dream GIANT.

channelclemente

He was an unfamiliar duck in NY last week. As a regular, I’m of the opinion he would find it rough sledding after more than 1-2 turns through the LU as a resident. There are a lot of indicators, but his LOB% being down ~10% suggests those walks he used to strand aren’t dying on the vine any more. Ergo, the impact of his high WHIP is the issue.

E-B

heya Carmot…

just replied to your prev post…uh, i dunno where, cuz no numerals in new system!

i think both Yankees, East & West will make a run at Timmy, and the more likely will be dem bumbos.

why?

For a contending top-tier team, the leverage by SFG of making a QO to a player (who will most likely refuse, if they’re sane), is mitigated, simply bcuz that contending team’s position in the draft is so low, losing one pick probably won’t affect them much.

I think it’s incumbent upon SFG to not offer the QO, instead, offer Timmy a reasonable contract, to his liking. Based on his history, it seems he likes going 2 or 3 years at a time, although if he wants more, they should consider it.

why?

don’t let dem bumbos add him to the kershaw-greinke rotation. don’t.

E-B

clutch, i respect mcann’s catching prowess, AND his people-smarts of knowing which umps he can/can’t deke, even for balls/strikes. it is a weapon.

not sure i like redazz though.

sorta like 28’s low key approach.

Anti-Lasorda

Only Tx has that problem. Az could close up the dome.

Now that I think about it, Oak could be in play to replace Two Slices Colon I guess… not likely but it could work.

Could be a dig a territorial rights if Beane signed Timmy and packed the O.co.

E-B

what about his FIP in those games w/ LoB?

i hear what you’re sayin’, just that I don’t really buy the notion that stranded runners are all due to the pitcher, esp. if they pitch to contact, rather than go for the KO as he used to.

i’ll have a look at his KO’s compared to earlier years, no doubt down from 2008/9, but still pretty good.

i also note that in 2011, paired w/ Stewie, more SO/game than any other catcher, including Bengie.

Anti-Lasorda

Sorry Paul. But .284 OBP? That’s Aaron Rowand pathetic…..

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

Okay, so I’ve read you opinions about pick compensation. I’ve also said as much before.

You’re worried about LAD signing Lincecum, I’m not. They’ll already have at least 7-8 starting options, and they may pursue Tanaka. I just posted some of these justifications below.

Some people seem to not put much value on the fact that Lincecum just *might* want to test free agency for the first time in his career. He just might want a change of scenery. Maybe he’s been fed up with Bochy, but is a professional and would never voice his opinions? Maybe the lack of run support here encourages him to want a move?

He’s shown he’s not all about money. So, maybe these factors play a large part. Maybe the Giants have *tried* to re-sign him already and he’s declined until he tests FA? And maybe the two sides just aren’t airing out their laundry in public?

Some seem under assumptions that the Giants are at fault for not already getting this done. I see way too many reasons I know nothing about, to make these same leaps and conclusions.

E-B

Anti!
dang, you’re a pitcher yrself–the high temp+low humidity messes up a pitcher’s grip, or lack of it, right?

as for O.co, just to say in the Bay Area, nah, don’t see that happening, cuz Beanie will just trade him before the season’s over.

Matthew

You may be right, as you usually are, Oracle. Unfortunately, the few tend to ruin it all for the many. I can remember thinking after the Brian Stow tragedy that it could easily have been reversed, as there are so many (mostly) young, ignorant, insecure, blustery, drunk, aimless idiot fans now that have little respect for life, for themselves, and thus for anyone. This social cocktail of losers, do gooders who make excuses for them, explanations of it being societies fahlt, and no consequences for their loser actions build them up to then be so brazen as to kill over a team allegiance. No, these kids that did this aren’t “us”, good Giant fans. But it doesn’t matter…media reports are “Giants fan kills Dodger fan” just like ” Dodger fans put Giant fan in a coma”. Welcome to our new world. Things look bleak. How does this happen? Because stupid is stupid, and some smart make excuses for stupid rather than making stupid take responsibility.

E-B

Carmot, I like your opinion here, and I hope you’re correct, cuz I’d like to see Timmy here for the rest of his career.

But…who are the 7-8 pitchers da Bumbo’s have, other than the BIG TWO, kershaw/greinke?

Nolasco’s not looked good lately.
Ryeu (sp?) been OK.
Capuano.
Volquez.
others in DL or recent surgery, well, except for our very own Johnny Sanchez.

I’m afraid they are interested, regardless of any Tanaka signing or other.

But, hope you’re correct.

channelclemente

It’s the lack of stranded runners, and only those he put there. It’s really chancy to lookback with Lincecum, he is in the midst of a major regression. His park adjusted, normalized ERA+ is down ~50 pt from ~125 to 75.

In the comment threaded below where you wish Lefty and me (and others) a good time at the yard.

Kershaw
Greinke
Ryu

Fife
Capuano
Beckett
Billingsley

McGill

Zach Lee
Garcia (if he goes to rotation)

And yeah, they’ve stated they want Nolasco to return and the feeling is mutual.

ClutchUp

Gee FARC when have you agreed with any of the decisions? They still have a Senior Sales Executive job available. After you get your foot in the door you might be able to be Yeshayah Goldfarb’s right hand man.

McCann would look good behind the plate with #28 at 3B and Pablo in the AL where he belongs. BOOM! get it done Sabes. Posey could catch 1 or two games a week, say Bum starts, and Posey would get his number up from not catching (his OPS is over .150 points higher) and get protection in the lineup from an AS quality LH bat in the lineup. WIN-WIN!

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

I LOVED re-signing Pagan, let’s be clear on that. Romo evolving into closer, had that conversation 3 years ago. Minor/brief changes like I’ve wanted to see Belt hit 2nd and Posey hit 3rd, these have happened this year. I preferred Rosario over Dunning and Sandy stayed up.

There are some things I’ve agreed with and appreciated. It’s just the bad decisions have been monumentally bad for much of *this* season.

FuriousAndRagingCarmot

*new thread*

Keep’n It Real

Just call me “Keep’n It Logical” 😀

ClutchUp

leaky faucet you always say that crap after the fact. Grow the heck up or shut up.